# Lyr 3 - The new Coherence™ and Continuity™ hybrid amplifier from Schiit -  Impression & discussion thread



## ProfFalkin (Mar 20, 2018)

Annoucement Video:  https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1720440738014542

Lyr 3 announcement post from Jason:   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-2026#post-14116733

Schiit Store page:  http://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-3

Lyr 3 Announcement:  http://www.schiit.com/about/news/schiit-introduces-lyr-3



> The First-Ever Modular Hybrid Headamp/Preamp
> 
> March 20, 2018, Valencia, CA. - Today, Schiit Audio announced the introduction of its third-generation Lyr headphone amp/preamp. Using Schiit’s new Coherence™ hybrid single-tube/solid state architecture, new Continuity™ constant-transconductance output stage, the same modular design as Jotunheim, Lyr 3 is a significant advance in technology, versatility, and convenience. Lyr 3 is available now at schiit.com, starting at $499.   (Click Here To Read More)




```
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 9.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channel (7.5W at <1% THD typical, one channel driven)
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 900mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 450mW RMS per channel
THD: < 0.007%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, high gain (worst case)
IMD: < 0.005%, CCIR at 1V RMS, high gain (worst case)
SNR: > 102db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, in gain = 1.5 mode
Crosstalk: < -75dB, 20 Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance: 0.3 ohms, high gain (worst case)
Gain: 7.5 (17.5db) or 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch
Topology: fully discrete, current-mode noninverting 6SN7/bipolar hybrid with constant transconductance output stage
Protection: standard muting relay for delayed turn-on and fast turn-off
Power Supply: two internal power transformers with 72VA total rating, plus with over 55,000uf of filter capacitance
```

-------------

Starting this off with a quick question to @Jason Stoddard...

Jason, which 6SN7 tubes are acceptable for use in the Lyr 3?    I have some 6BX7 and 6BL7 tubes which sound very good, but I hesitate to use tubes not endorsed by the manufacturer in their products.

This looks like a very exciting product, and I look forward to receiving mine very soon!


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## Karlmalone1

Awesome!  Very much looking forward to some impressions


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## ProfFalkin

Added specs from product page.


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## XERO1 (Mar 20, 2018)

Call me crazy, but I'm really gonna miss the look of the Lyr 2.

While I'm sure the Lyr 3 will be a sonic upgrade over the Lyr 2 (and I'll be getting one), IMHO it's an aesthetic downgrade.

The Lyr 2 is just a thing of beauty. And it sounds pretty damn good too!  

It's kind of a shame that Jason has decided to switch to the simpler and less costly chassis of the Jotunheim/Saga for the Lyr 3.  And I'm sure all of the future mid-sized amp and DAC updates will use it too. 

Oh well.  Change happens.


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## Alcophone

XERO1 said:


> Call me crazy, but I'm really gonna miss the look of the Lyr 2.
> 
> While I'm sure the Lyr 3 will be a sonic upgrade over the Lyr 2 (and I'll be getting one), IMHO it's an aesthetic downgrade.
> 
> ...


I think it looks awesome, much cleaner (no screws, etc.) and I like the vent hole pattern. Not that I minded the look of the old one, but this is an improvement to me. In black, the difference would be even more pronounced.


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## XERO1

Alcophone said:


> I think it looks awesome, much cleaner (no screws, etc.) and I like the vent hole pattern. Not that I minded the look of the old one, but this is an improvement to me. In black, the difference would be even more pronounced.


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## ProfFalkin

Alcophone said:


> I think it looks awesome, much cleaner (no screws, etc.) and I like the vent hole pattern. Not that I minded the look of the old one, but this is an improvement to me. In black, the difference would be even more pronounced.



I've always liked the Jot chassis.   Putting the Lyr 3 in there is just fine by me.


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## franz12

I have never used a tube amp before. Sorry for my ignorance, but lyr had 2 tubes, and this lyr 3 has one tube. Does the number of tubes make any sonic difference? The look of lyr 3 resembles more like Vali 2 than lyr 2.
I thought about cancelling or selling mcth in favor of this, but i changed my mind at least for now.
The price of mcth is just half of this with the better technology (power switch on the front). Before I am jumping on this, I hope to see more comparative reviews between mcth and lyr 3, as the price point of mcth seems to be unbeatable at this point.


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## ProfFalkin

I doubt you will get many reviews quite yet.   The Lyr 3 just came out today, and I can't confirm if they've started shipping yet.


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## GenEricOne

I'm still new to all of this, but isn't the prevailing wisdom of multibit DACs to leave them on all the time while the prevailing wisdom for tube amps is to only power them on when necessary? Where would that leave a Lymby?


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## ProfFalkin

It is my understanding that the dac card is powered by the usb bus.  So, if you leave your PC on all the time as I do, it's fine.  

If you want to bypass this, use a powered USB hub which will do two things for you - decouple the dac from the pc usb power, and stay on all the time.   Also, the Schiit Wyrd would do the same only better, I believe.


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## XERO1

franz12 said:


> The price of mcth is just half of this with the better technology (power switch on the front).


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## ProfFalkin

Pretty sure he was serious.


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## franz12

XERO1 said:


>


half serious


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## AlwaysForward

He fronting


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## baiyy1986

Will this be another hotttttt schiit?


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## heliosphann

I'd already have ordered one if it was available in black!


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## Deftone

heliosphann said:


> I'd already have ordered one if it was available in black!



I’m sure there will be another “manufacturing mistake”  in the near future


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## loki993

franz12 said:


> The price of mcth is just half of this with the better technology (power switch on the front). Before I am jumping on this, I hope to see more comparative reviews between mcth and lyr 3, as the price point of mcth seems to be unbeatable at this point.



Did you just say the MCTH is better technology because it has a power switch on the front?


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## Karlmalone1

Curiosity and new toy syndrome got the best of me, ordered and waiting


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## ProfFalkin

Nice!   Mine should be here in a few days.


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## Deftone

Looking forward to impressions, I wonder if the Valhalla is next in line for a refresh...


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## heliosphann

Karlmalone1 said:


> Curiosity and new toy syndrome got the best of me, ordered and waiting



Same with me. Also have one of revised Jotunheim's on the way. Should be a good comparison.


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## Cartesian_Impertinence

heliosphann said:


> Same with me. Also have one of revised Jotunheim's on the way. Should be a good comparison.



Looking forward to this comparison!


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## MrPanda

Would the internal DAC card have any advantages over a Bifrost Multibit?

Thanks


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## ProfFalkin

heliosphann said:


> Same with me. Also have one of revised Jotunheim's on the way. Should be a good comparison.


But... It's not black!  Hehehe


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## heliosphann

ProfFalkin said:


> But... It's not black!  Hehehe



I know, I know... I'm just going to pretend it's black every time I look at it.


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## ProfFalkin

MrPanda said:


> Would the internal DAC card have any advantages over a Bifrost Multibit?
> 
> Thanks


Not really, other than it's half the price and saves space.  Seeing as the Bimby can use gen5 usb and has other slightly better internals, it's probably the better sounding way to go.


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## MrPanda

ProfFalkin said:


> Not really, other than it's half the price and saves space.  Seeing as the Bimby can use gen5 usb and has other slightly better internals, it's probably the better sounding way to go.


Thanks!


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## ProfFalkin

heliosphann said:


> I know, I know... I'm just going to pretend it's black every time I look at it.


I'm gonna get you a big black Sharpie.  We'll fix that chassis up real quick.


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## ProfFalkin

Deftone said:


> Looking forward to impressions, I wonder if the Valhalla is next in line for a refresh...


I'd wager you will see more analog board upgrades, the Sol, the gadget, etc. be announced before the V2 gets anything.


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## ProfFalkin (Mar 21, 2018)

Has anyone ever tried powder coating a Schiit chassis?  It might be cool to see a HotRod Red Bimby / Lyr 3 stack.   

Or that deep dark British Racing Green.  The old Dodge Challenger Plum Crazy Purple perhaps?


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## MrPanda

Racing red would be a great color


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## riffrafff

ProfFalkin said:


> Has anyone ever tried powder coating a Schiit chassis?  It might be cool to see a HotRod Red Bimby / Lyr 3 stack.
> 
> Or that deep dark British Racing Green.  The old Dodge Challenger Plum Crazy Purple perhaps?



Great idea.  You should do that, and report back.  With photos.


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## Hofy

ProfFalkin said:


> Has anyone ever tried powder coating a Schiit chassis?  It might be cool to see a HotRod Red Bimby / Lyr 3 stack.
> 
> Or that deep dark British Racing Green.  The old Dodge Challenger Plum Crazy Purple perhaps?



There have been some who have plasti-dipped their Schiit.


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## pithyginger63

someone should vantablack their schiit, it'll probably overheat though


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## loki993

Deftone said:


> Looking forward to impressions, I wonder if the Valhalla is next in line for a refresh...





ProfFalkin said:


> I'd wager you will see more analog board upgrades, the Sol, the gadget, etc. be announced before the V2 gets anything.



Read Jasons post about the release..the Valhalla will not be getting a refresh...probably not ever.


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## avast18

Wait a user's review. Very interesting like AMP only > than Lyr2, or its are the same eggs only in profile


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## lexterminator

Two days ago I was debating between a Lyr 2 and a V200 and ended up ordering a V200  and a Modi multibit dac. The Lyr 3 looks very interesting, I will probably get one with the phono input since I plan on getting a turntable also. How’s the Schiit amps reliability wise ? Are there frequent “gremlins” ? Cheers


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## XERO1 (Mar 22, 2018)

I’ve owned quite a few Schiit amps and DACs over the years and I haven’t had a single problem.  And their customer service is excellent too.

Nothing but good experiences so far.


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## ProfFalkin

XERO1 said:


> I’ve owned quite a few Schiit amps and DACs over the years and I haven’t had a single problem.  And their customer service is excellent too.
> 
> Nothing but good experiences so far.


Myself as well.  I did return a few things, but I haven't had anything break on me.


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## Drewminus

I'm in the market for a new amp and seems like it'll do the job, I'll probably have to go a separate dac though as my USB's hella noisy


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## daddyo1973

Interesting new piece of Schiit, will be keeping my eye on this thread for impressions once the units are out in the hands of the head-fi community.


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## ProfFalkin

Been listening to mine for a while.  Once i can get a few tubes burned in and rolled through, i might have something to say.


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## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> Been listening to mine for a while.  Once i can get a few tubes burned in and rolled through, i might have something to say.



Would you’d providing some early impressions, I am in a situation where I need to make a quick decision.


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## ProfFalkin

Early thoughts with new production TungSol 6SN7:

It is doing everything very well.  I don't hear anything I dislike yet.  I'm treble sensitive and this hasn't been an issue - but neither is my Jotunheim despite it's reputation for having treble issues.

It doesn't have the staging of my IHA-1, but better than my Jotunheim.

Better bass impact than the Crack or IHA-1.  Extends nicely down low. 

Another tube will probably sound different, but I have not tried yet.  Next up: KenRad black glass VT231 or RCA grey glass 6SN7.  Not sure yet.  Going to put another 20+ hours into this tube before I swap.

I would say that if you want a very clean, balanced sound that isnt as dry as a SS amp, but doesn't sound gooey like a OTL, this would fit well.  It might pick up more sonic 'character' with different tubes, but we'll see.

@Wildcatsare1 - That's all I'm comfortable saying at this point.


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## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> Early thoughts with new production TungSol 6SN7:
> 
> It is doing everything very well.  I don't hear anything I dislike yet.  I'm treble sensitive and this hasn't been an issue - but neither is my Jotunheim despite it's reputation for having treble issues.
> 
> ...



Thank you @ProfFalkin


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## ProfFalkin (Mar 25, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Thank you @ProfFalkin


You're welcome.

Ok, since most of my 6SN7 tubes are already broken in on the IHA-1 I figured I'd pull a few out and see how much of a difference I'd get.  I gave each about a 15 min warm-up before listening.   (Easy to do as I'm folding laundry and doing a few chores.  I hate doing dishes, going to save that for last.)

The KenRads were ok.  On Rush's Limelight, the drums seemed to have quite an emphasis to impact.  Staging seems on par to the stock tube.  Mids seemed a bit subdued.  Bass didn't seem to change much.

I put the RCA grey glass in, and again, quite the change.   Midbass seems more evident.  The treble emphasis is gone, but I'm still getting a good amount of detail.   I kind of expected this, as these are my warm and gooey tubes.  They are also kind of microphonic, and that is coming through on the Lyr 3.

I just popped in some Sylvanias, and these are probably the better sounding of the bunch.   A touch of that KenRad impact is back to the treble which is very nice, and in hindsight the KenRad treble was a bit too bright for my taste.  Nice clean and clear, plenty of detail.  No mid suckout.  Bass extends down low.  I'm glad these sound so good in the Lyr 3, as they were not being used in the IHA-1.   It's also good news, as these are quite cheap compared to the other tubes.

With that said, and speaking of cheap, the new production TungSol does NOT sound bad!  I only have 20 some odd hours on it (and only 20 some odd hours on the Lry3 as well) and I expect it will sound better with a little more use.  For $20, I honestly can't complain one bit.

KenRads = KenRad VT231 clear top, side getter, date unknown
RCA grey glass = RCA VT231 smoked glass, made in May-June of 1945.
Sylvania = Sylvania Chrome dome 6SN7GTB, triangle black plates, 1958

Chain =  PC > JRMC & WAV rips > Gumby > Lyr 3 > ZMF Eikon.


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## Wes S

ProfFalkin - Does your KenRad have staggered plates?  Thanks


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## ProfFalkin (Mar 25, 2018)

Wes S said:


> ProfFalkin - Does your KenRad have staggered plates?  Thanks


Yes.


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## Wes S (Mar 25, 2018)

Awesome!  Thanks for the pics ProfFalkin!  I have the same tube on delivery.  I also have a couple RCA grey glass from 40's, and Silvania 6sn7gta silver top 1953.  My Lyr 3, will be here on Monday.  I went with the Russian NOS tubes, from Schiit.  I cant wait to hear it all!


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## alphanumerix1

Awaiting reviews.


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## DACattack

Ordered one with the TungSol. Live in the boonies so it'll take a while to reach me. I'll post impressions after a few days in hand.


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## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> It is doing everything very well. I don't hear anything I dislike yet. I'm treble sensitive and this hasn't been an issue - but neither is my Jotunheim despite it's reputation for having treble issues.


I got a Jot shortly after it came out, and unlike you I do not like it very much. Depending on track / recording - highs could become unpleasant (harsh?). 



ProfFalkin said:


> I would say that if you want a very clean, balanced sound that isnt as dry as a SS amp, but doesn't sound gooey like a OTL, this would fit well. It might pick up more sonic 'character' with different tubes, but we'll see.


I recently received the Massdrop CTH and LCX. The former is also a tube hybrid, with a nice warm and smooth sound that I like a lot with my HD600 and ZMF Atticus. Have not tried with other headphones (yet). Do you have other amps to compare the Lyr3 to? I was debating an OTL (like Darkvoice 336SE) since I do not have an OTL in my collection, but would consider the Lyr3 if (with the right tube) I could tune it to be warm and smooth (especially smoothed highs)...


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## ProfFalkin (Mar 25, 2018)

Zachik said:


> I got a Jot shortly after it came out, and unlike you I do not like it very much. Depending on track / recording - highs could become unpleasant (harsh?).
> 
> 
> I recently received the Massdrop CTH and LCX. The former is also a tube hybrid, with a nice warm and smooth sound that I like a lot with my HD600 and ZMF Atticus. Have not tried with other headphones (yet). Do you have other amps to compare the Lyr3 to? I was debating an OTL (like Darkvoice 336SE) since I do not have an OTL in my collection, but would consider the Lyr3 if (with the right tube) I could tune it to be warm and smooth (especially smoothed highs)...



I've read many times that the early Jotunheim was a bit bright.  I don't find mine too be that way, but it wasn't ordered when they first came out either. 

I compared the Lyr 3 to my BW 2 last night, and the Black Widow does not have the treble emphasis that I perceive with the Lyr.  To be clear, I don't know if it is an emphasis or just an extremely good rendering of detail that the Lyr brings across in this case.  From my Eikons, I prefer the Black Widow because the overall tonality seemed smoother.  This is more in line with what I'm used to hearing.  

I know not many people have heard the Black Widow, so it's going to be hard for many to get a frame of reference. I'll try to compare the Lyr 3 against something more mainstream than it or the IHA-1.  The only other amps I have to compare it to are the Jotunheim and Bottlehead Crack. 

I can tell you right now, the Lyr demolishes the Crack in detail retrieval, bass extension, and imapct across the entire frequency spectrum.  The Crack can give better headstage than the Lyr 3, depending on the tubes used, but I wouldn't call either masters of holographic sound like I would the ZDS or Af.  With that said, I think the Lyr 3 is one of schitt's better amps for headstage.  It is certainly better than the jotunheim, and working from memory better than the magni 3.

I haven't even had the chance to use the internal multi-bit card.  Only my Gumby. 

I have an MCTH on the way, and can compare it to the Lyr.  I bought both for my office/work setup, to be run from a Mimby.  (Then the Lyr came out.)  If I can run a single box at work with acceptable results, I would prefer to do so.  This means i would prefer to run the Lyr + MB card, but I still want to test both to make sure I'm getting the best sound.


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## ilikepooters

Hey people, long time no see 

I used to be on the forums years ago, might remember me from the Lyr 1 tube rolling thread. Not been into my headphones for years now.


Just won a pair of HE-500's on ebay so will be ordering up a Lyr 3 to pair with them.

Going to order it with the DAC module, should i get the multibit or the cheaper one?


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## Motocrossman24

Really interested to hear more comparisons to the jotunheim. I was about to pull the trigger on the jimby setup but noticed the lyr3 yesterday. I like that it’s got a boatload of power to drive my He400i and soon to be He560 cans, and that I don’t need to blow a ton of money on a balanced cable to get that power. My only personal experience with schiit products are the original Vali and magni which a friend has let me borrow atm to see what’s more my flavor. I feel atleast with these two amps I love the fluidity the Vali offers with the touch of tube sound, but find the magni to be better over the whole spektrum as far as detail/resolution. Though neither can drive my headphones to a level I would like them to be able to.


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## Motocrossman24

ilikepooters said:


> Hey people, long time no see
> 
> I used to be on the forums years ago, might remember me from the Lyr 1 tube rolling thread. Not been into my headphones for years now.
> 
> ...


 
From what I have read on others opinions between the two dac modules, the 4490 module tends to be a touch on the bright side(not bad bright but brighter) while the Multibit is a warmer sounding dac. Most say both are excellent setups but seem to agree that overall the Multibit is a better dac with more detail etc.


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## braaam

ProfFalkin said:


> I have an MCTH on the way, and can compare it to the Lyr.  I bought both for my office/work setup, to be run from a Mimby.  (Then the Lyr came out.)  If I can run a single box at work with acceptable results, I would prefer to do so.  This means i would prefer to run the Lyr + MB card, but I still want to test both to make sure I'm getting the best sound.



Looking forward to your impressions of both. I also have an MCTH on the way - curious if the Lyr 3 is a clear step up.


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## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> I have an MCTH on the way, and can compare it to the Lyr.


That would be great - I will definitely look forward to this comparison (as well as more A/B with the Jot as you burn-in the Lyr3)...


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## quimbo

Has anyone tested this with vintage 600 ohm headphones such as the AKG K240 Sextetts or the Sennheiser HD540s? 

Looking to replace my Asgard 2 because of these differences

Lyr 3 - Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 450mW RMS per channel

Asgard 2 - Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 190mW RMS per channel


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## ProfFalkin

quimbo said:


> Has anyone tested this with vintage 600 ohm headphones such as the AKG K240 Sextetts or the Sennheiser HD540s?
> 
> Looking to replace my Asgard 2 because of these differences
> 
> ...



The Asgard not loud enough?


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## quimbo

The AKG240s 'sing' with more power.  I can feel that they are being held back


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## ProfFalkin

quimbo said:


> The AKG240s 'sing' with more power.  I can feel that they are being held back


The Lyr 3 would give you more juice.   I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the Lyr sounds quite different from the Asgard though.


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## quimbo

I'm ok with that, especially with the Loki in the chain.    I can re purpose the Asgard 2, maybe replace my Magni 3 at work


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## XERO1 (Mar 26, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the Lyr sounds quite different from the Asgard though.


With tubes, yes.  But when I used LISST tubes with my Lyr 2 and compared it to my Asgard 2, they sounded virtually identical to me.

Also, the Lyr 2 with LISST tubes ran noticeably cooler than the Asgard 2.  And I would imagine that the Lyr 3 with a LISST tube would run even cooler, which is always a plus in my book.


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## ProfFalkin

XERO1 said:


> With tubes, yes.  But when I used LISST tubes with my Lyr 2 and compared it to my Asgard 2, they sounded virtually identical to me.
> 
> Also, the Lyr 2 with LISST tubes ran noticeably cooler than the Asgard 2.  And I would imagine that the Lyr 3 with a LISST tube would run even cooler, which is always a plus in my book.


Hmmm... with the Lyr 3 being completely redesigned from the ground up, I doubt that holds true in this case.  

I had an Asgard 2.  If the L2+LISST sounds like an A2, then I can tell you that my Lyr 3 definitely sounds very different.


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## lystor

Hi

Is it worth upgrading from Jotunheim Multibit to Lyr 3 Multibit?

Phones: Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro
Monitors: Focal Alpha 65

Thank you


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## ProfFalkin

lystor said:


> Hi
> 
> Is it worth upgrading from Jotunheim Multibit to Lyr 3 Multibit?
> 
> ...


That is hard to say.   So far, I think the Lyr is better.  That could just be new toy syndrome talking, but I think the clarity and sound stage are much better on the Lyr.   Being able to roll tubes to customize the sound is a great benefit, but it also makes the whole endeavor more expensive.

Also - Are you running the monitors from the Jotunheim?  There are no balanced outputs on the Lyr.


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## MtnMan307

lystor said:


> Hi
> 
> Is it worth upgrading from Jotunheim Multibit to Lyr 3 Multibit?
> 
> ...


The DT 1990 is a 250 ohm headphone with a single ended wiring if I understand the description right.  The Jotunheim puts out maybe 400mW at 250 ohms in SE mode.  You would need to run balanced to get the full horsepower of the Jot, may not be feasible or cheap to convert the 1990s to balanced.  The Lyr 3 is single ended only, no balanced output, but it puts out similar power numbers to the Jot's balanced output.  900mW at 300 ohms for both Jot Balanced and Lyr 3.

I have a Jotunheim and love it, but have never owned the 1990s or listened to them with it.  I haven't heard the Lyr 3 but on paper it looks better for your 1990s.


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## Motocrossman24

Is the lyr3 a warmer sounding amp then the jotunheim for those who have experience with it? I am into hifiman headphones and have not had issues thinking they’re bright like many do, but I do want to get the warmer of the two amps as I prefer a touch warmer sound sig. also like that it can be flipped from tube to ss which seems a pretty interesting feature


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## Wes S (Mar 26, 2018)

First couple of hours with my Lyr 3, NOS(stock) Russian tube, and my Sony Z7's and I can't stop listening!  Simply amazing   The Z7's never sounded this good out of my Jotunheim balanced.

More after further listening. . .


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## lystor (Mar 27, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> Also - Are you running the monitors from the Jotunheim?


Yes.
Both Jotunheim and Focals have XLR and RCA. RCA works quite well.
I am not able to see the difference between them in A/B test (excluding sound level).



MtnMan307 said:


> The Jotunheim puts out maybe 400mW at 250 ohms in SE mode.  You would need to run balanced to get the full horsepower of the Jot, may not be feasible or cheap to convert the 1990s to balanced.


I think it will not be an issue because DT1990/DT1770 250 Ohm are very sensitive with their Tesla 2 technology. Sound level is almost the same as on DT990/770 80 Ohm.


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## Wes S (Mar 27, 2018)

Well . . .this morning I just could not wait any longer, so I rolled in an RCA grey glass, just see if I could hear a difference from the NOS Russian.  The RCA brought some warmth, with more mid bass, than sub bass and the highs were a bit more rolled off.  The RCA is more euphonic, but I actually think I prefer the NOS Russian with my Z7's.  The NOS Russian with my Z7's, had this amazing power, depth and separation with the blackest background I have heard.  There was a realism with the NOS Russian, that I did not know, the Z7's were capable of.  The Z7's always sounded a bit artificial with my Jotunheim.   I am not sure that the NOS Russian is a better tube, but it just hits all the right spots, with the Z7's.  Also, to note the amp is super quiet with both tubes, with not even the slightest hint of hum.  This amp is a step up from anything I have heard, and I am loving it.  I will report back, after some more listening with both tubes, and a few different headphones.  I also have a KenRad and Silvania on the way.


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## lystor

What is the difference in sound between stock tubes (NOS 6NS8 and Tung-Sol 6SN7) on Lyr 3?

Thank you


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## Wes S

Lystor - I wish I knew.  Most people will only have one or the other at this point, because you pick which one at check out.


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## ProfFalkin

I have the NOS Russian tube on it's way.  I can compare when it gets here.


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## Wes S

ProfFalkin - That is great news!  I am looking forward, to your comparison.


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## quimbo

I just ordered a Lyr 3 with LISST and Tung-Sol 6SN7 tubes.  Should be here in a few days and then a few days to test.  May have a slightly used Asgard 2 for sale soon


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wes S said:


> ProfFalkin - That is great news!  I am looking forward, to your comparison.


It's probably going to take a week to get here.  The shipping cost more than the tube!


----------



## koover

It may have already been mentioned, but can you run 6922, 2C51 and 6N3 variants in the amp with adapter?


----------



## Wes S

koover - Yes, you can.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Can anyone list the compatible tube types with the stock lyr3? They only list 2 types on the website and I don’t wanna throw something in there that may wreck it


----------



## ProfFalkin

I asked Schiit, and here was the reply:



> *Tom E* (Schiit Audio)
> 
> Mar 21, 13:30 PDT
> 
> ...



Personally, I'm not going to stray from this list or use tubes that vary electrically by much.  I have no idea what tolerances the amp has for variations.


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> I asked Schiit, and here was the reply:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I'm not going to stray from this list or use tubes that vary electrically by much.  I have no idea what tolerances the amp has for variations.


Thankyou for the answer, I’m sure thaeres plenty to work with in those ranges.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 27, 2018)

I am right there with you ProfFalkin.  I am enjoying how easy it is to use the single tube and just pop it in and out, with no adapters.  It is really easy to tube roll with the Lyr 3, compared to the Valhalla 2.  The 6NS7's are so much easier to put into and take out of the socket, compared to the 6922's.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> koover - Yes, you can.


Awesome. Thank you for the response. Looks like this is in my near future!


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> Awesome. Thank you for the response. Looks like this is in my near future!


Just to clarify - I read this from the Schiit website.  I am not an expert.


----------



## koover

ProfFalkin said:


> I asked Schiit, and here was the reply:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I'm not going to stray from this list or use tubes that vary electrically by much.  I have no idea what tolerances the amp has for variations.


Thats a good rule of thumb but I and many LYR and LYR2 owners and rollers use the 2C51 and 6N3 variants all the time with the proper adapter with no issues and awesome results. 
I’m gonna give this amp a go. Anyone need any sets of 6922 tubes?


----------



## chef8489

So anyone upgraded from the Vali 2 and mimby that tube rolled to this care to comment on how it compares?


----------



## Magic77

I ordered a Lyr 3 over the weekend. My order had not shipped yet, so I emailed Schiit. They said the Lyr 3 is currently in production and should ship within a few more business days.


----------



## Wes S

I got the exact same response and it shipped that day.


----------



## DACattack

I ordered this weekend and it sounds as if it is backordered and in constant production. It should ship by the end of the week, but they said it was hard to estimate exactly.


----------



## Wes S

This 40's RCA grey glass is blowing my mind!  It took me a while to adjust, from the Russian.  The RCA reminds me of my favorite 2c51, the WE396A.  They are both warm and euphonic sounding, but still resolving, with a wide soundstage and crazy good imaging and depth.  Back to the music. . .


----------



## pichu

The RCA 6SN7 60’s Black Plate tube looks interesting as a tube roll for the Lyr 3. New production Tung-Sol is nice but of course we’re always chasing for something bigger and better.


----------



## chef8489

Someone needs to get one of these. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-6F8G-t...930631?hash=item4672b14407:g:gGQAAOSwY~1aOlRo


----------



## koover

I’m so on the fence with picking this up. On one hand it’s more powerful then the LYR2 along with using 1 tube. My stall of HP’s are pretty diverse with low, mid and high impedance so is there a need for more power? But it’s supposed to sound better especilly with the 6N8S tube. This also eliminates the need to deal with more expensive matched sets of tubes.  On the other hand for me at least, I have so many matched sets that I could supply 4-5 of us with enough tubes to last us all a lifetime. Then?.... every matched set I have and want to keep, is double the fun and I’ll never have to buy another tube the rest of my life.... with the proper adapter of course. But then I’ll go down that rabbit hole buying the 6N8S tube when I already own close to 50 sets/singles already. Lol.
Decisions, decisions. Just thinking out loud guys. Someone talk me in or out of it as I’m not really answering any of my own questions


----------



## ProfFalkin

koover said:


> I’m so on the fence with picking this up. On one hand it’s more powerful then the LYR2 along with using 1 tube. My stall of HP’s are pretty diverse with low, mid and high impedance so is there a need for more power? But it’s supposed to sound better especilly with the 6N8S tube. This also eliminates the need to deal with more expensive matched sets of tubes.  On the other hand for me at least, I have so many matched sets that I could supply 4-5 of us with enough tubes to last us all a lifetime. Then?.... every matched set I have and want to keep, is double the fun and I’ll never have to buy another tube the rest of my life.... with the proper adapter of course. But then I’ll go down that rabbit hole buying the 6N8S tube when I already own close to 50 sets/singles already. Lol.
> Decisions, decisions. Just thinking out loud guys. Someone talk me in or out of it as I’m not really answering any of my own questions


Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you enjoy rolling tubes more than listening to music.  I think the amp is one of the best I've heard regardless of price or design, and would recommend it based on that alone.


----------



## koover

Your assumption would be incorrect and not taking it wrong. I’m a music nut and rolling is just part of the fun. It’s just a bonus to
Be able to tweek the sound with any imperfections that I feel needs said tweek to get the most out of every headphone I own AND make the music sound that much better. It’s all about he music brother. 

Thanks for the input but I’d appreciate some insight why it’s  one of the best amps you've heard.


----------



## Astral Abyss

chef8489 said:


> Someone needs to get one of these. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-6F8G-t...930631?hash=item4672b14407:g:gGQAAOSwY~1aOlRo



Based on my experience, those 6F8G adapters and tube combos pick up a lot of noise and add an annoying buzz to the background.


----------



## ProfFalkin

koover said:


> Thanks for the input but I’d appreciate some insight why it’s  one of the best amps you've heard.



Work is crazy busy, so I'll keep it short.

One of the most detailed and resolving amps I've heard without there being some kind of treble ****ery going on.  It commits no sins of tonality that I can find, although I feel it has the slightest bit of midbass emphasis.  Compared to the other tube hybrid amps I have experience with, the Lyr has the best bass quality, impact, and extension.  Headstage still isn't as deep or wide as your TOTL head amps, but the thing is 1/5th of the price. It readily beats the Jotunheim in this category.  

The only thing I can find fault with is that the internal MB card doesn't provide quite as wide of a sound stage as the Mimby.  It's noticeable on direct comparison, but otherwise they sound the same.

I have the MCTH sitting next to it, and it has rolled off bass, a soft tone, and a slight bit of veil in direct comparison to the Lyr 3.

Hope that helps.


----------



## skyline315

koover said:


> Your assumption would be incorrect and not taking it wrong. I’m a music nut and rolling is just part of the fun. It’s just a bonus to
> Be able to tweek the sound with any imperfections that I feel needs said tweek to get the most out of every headphone I own AND make the music sound that much better. It’s all about he music brother.
> 
> Thanks for the input but I’d appreciate some insight why it’s  one of the best amps you've heard.


From the Lyr 2, the biggest gains will be in clarity.  The difference is not small.  I kind of hate the Lyr 2, so I wouldn't be enthusiastic about the Lyr 3 unless it was a night and day difference.

I can't imagine the AFO sounding better than it does from this amp.

Sell the Lyr 2 along with all those tubes, and get an upgrade for very cheap net out of pocket cost.


----------



## koover

ProfFalkin said:


> Work is crazy busy, so I'll keep it short.
> 
> One of the most detailed and resolving amps I've heard without there being some kind of treble ****ery going on.  It commits no sins of tonality that I can find, although I feel it has the slightest bit of midbass emphasis.  Compared to the other tube hybrid amps I have experience with, the Lyr has the best bass quality, impact, and extension.  Headstage still isn't as deep or wide as your TOTL head amps, but the thing is 1/5th of the price. It readily beats the Jotunheim in this category.
> 
> ...


Helps tremendously and I really appreciate it.

I completely understand the work crazyness as I’m experiencing the same.

The tube issue I have is I have so many and I don’t want to have spent all this money then not even able to utilize them. That’s my concern. But my hope is with an adaptor I can still use them all, with a great sounding amp while saving me a boatload of money on buying even more tubes. 

Thanx again man!


----------



## skyline315

koover said:


> But my hope is with an adaptor I can still use them all, with a great sounding amp while saving me a boatload of money on buying even more tubes.
> 
> Thanx again man!


Solution: don't buy a boatload of tubes.

The stock Russian and Tung-Sol are both solid options.  No need to go nuts unless you need something very very specific.


----------



## koover

skyline315 said:


> From the Lyr 2, the biggest gains will be in clarity.  The difference is not small.  I kind of hate the Lyr 2, so I wouldn't be enthusiastic about the Lyr 3 unless it was a night and day difference.
> 
> I can't imagine the AFO sounding better than it does from this amp.
> 
> Sell the Lyr 2 along with all those tubes, and get an upgrade for very cheap net out of pocket cost.



Interesting with your comments about the AFO as that’s my go to HP and daily driver. I believe I can get an adapter for what I already own and it’ll still be a tremendous upgrade from what you both have said. And of course knowing me, I’ll still go out and purchase the correct tube (s) for the amp.
Thanks, appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> This 40's RCA grey glass is blowing my mind!


I am curious - in case I decide to go with Lyr3 and those tubes - where do you get them from? (and roughly how expensive are they?)


----------



## chef8489

Astral Abyss said:


> Based on my experience, those 6F8G adapters and tube combos pick up a lot of noise and add an annoying buzz to the background.


I do not have the problem with it on the vali 2.


----------



## Pappas3278

My tube experience is limited to only the 6922 variety for my phono pre amp.  Can anyone comment on the benefits of installing an adapter in order to use the 6922 tubes with the Lyr3?


----------



## pichu

Pappas3278 said:


> My tube experience is limited to only the 6922 variety for my phono pre amp.  Can anyone comment on the benefits of installing an adapter in order to use the 6922 tubes with the Lyr3?


Adapters with tubes add noise, and you come into more problems with making sure the amps circuitry is good/efficient with the alien tube you are putting in. You’re best off sticking to the 6SN7 stuff for this one imo.


----------



## Pappas3278

pichu said:


> Adapters with tubes add noise, and you come into more problems with making sure the amps circuitry is good/efficient with the alien tube you are putting in. You’re best off sticking to the 6SN7 stuff for this one imo.


Sound...advice.  Thanks.


----------



## Marlowe

pichu said:


> Adapters with tubes add noise, and you come into more problems with making sure the amps circuitry is good/efficient with the alien tube you are putting in. You’re best off sticking to the 6SN7 stuff for this one imo.



I don't think this is universally true. I don't have a Lyr 3, but I'm using adapters in my Valhalla 2 for various 2C51 family tubes and the amp is dead quiet. (FWIW Mike Moffat stated that these are his favorite tubes for the Valhalla.) I'll likely pick up a Lyr 3 in a few months for my  music setup and move the Valhalla 2 to my Blu-ray/TV setup (where I'm currently using a LD MK III with a second Mimby).


----------



## koover

Marlowe said:


> I don't think this is universally true. I don't have a Lyr 3, but I'm using adapters in my Valhalla 2 for various 2C51 family tubes and the amp is dead quiet. (FWIW Mike Moffat stated that these are his favorite tubes for the Valhalla.) I'll likely pick up a Lyr 3 in a few months for my  music setup and move the Valhalla 2 to my Blu-ray/TV setup (where I'm currently using a LD MK III with a second Mimby).


Agreed whole heartedly. Running 6N3 and the 2C51 tubes are dead quite in my LYR2. But he Ember is a different story depending on the variant of tube you roll in it.


----------



## Astral Abyss

The problem on the 6F8 adapter is the long wire running from the top of the tube to the adapter picks up a lot of noise and interference.  At least when I used it...


----------



## koover

Astral Abyss said:


> The problem on the 6F8 adapter is the long wire running from the top of the tube to the adapter picks up a lot of noise and interference.  At least when I used it...


Ah ha. That makes a lot of sense.


----------



## tafens

Hi,
I immediately got interested in the Lyr3 when I saw it and read about it. I’m also looking towards the Jotunheim, and they both look very interesting with the multibit DAC card (Limby? Jimby?).

I currently have the Modi Multibit and Magni3 with HD600 headphones and just got a pair of massdrop HD6xx delivered this Monday.

I read earlier in this thread that the Lyr3 sounds great with the TungSol stock tube.

How does compare with:
Jotunheim single ended? Jotunheim balanced?
That is with tube, how does it compare when using LISST?

Finally, how well does ModiMB/Magni3  stand against the two?


----------



## skyline315 (Mar 30, 2018)

@tafens

Stick with the Modi MB unless you really need to save some space.  You can improve things by tossing and Eitr in the chain if you don't already have one. Lyr MB does not allow for this.  Convenience is it's biggest advantage.

Lyr will destroy the Magni.

The Jot is a little cleaner/harder hitting in the bass.

Lyr is an upgrade in just about everything else, especially in the treble where the Jot can be little wonky/harsh.

Haven't tried the LISST tubes.  If I wanted SS, then I'd buy SS


----------



## avast18

skyline315 said:


> @tafens
> 
> Stick with the Modi MB unless you really need to save some space.  You can improve things by tossing and Eitr in the chain if you don't already have one. Lyr MB does not allow for this.  Convenience is it's biggest advantage.
> 
> ...


So if you compare the sound of MOdi mb and Lyr 3 mb - who will win? It is also interesting to compare Lyr 3 Mb with Bifrost MB. I wonder what's the difference, except for USB gen 5 in bifrost.


----------



## exdmd

I think you are best served using Lyr 3 as amp only. There is a lot of buzz in other forums from members whose opinion I respect calling Lyr 3 a better sounding amp than Mjolnir 2 and destroys Jot.


----------



## davidimdpt

exdmd said:


> I think you are best served using Lyr 3 as amp only. There is a lot of buzz in other forums from members whose opinion I respect calling Lyr 3 a better sounding amp than Mjolnir 2 and destroys Jot.



I just ordered the Lyr 3 without the dac last night.  I didn't want to add more electronics than necessary.


----------



## srw0015

avast18 said:


> So if you compare the sound of MOdi mb and Lyr 3 mb - who will win? It is also interesting to compare Lyr 3 Mb with Bifrost MB. I wonder what's the difference, except for USB gen 5 in bifrost.



I'm curious about this as well. I'm looking at upgrading my setup from a gen 2 Modi/Magni, and was wanting to move to a bimby and lyr2. I mostly listen to planars (daily drivers are Hifiman he-400i and Monolith m1060c), so I want something with enough power to drive them, and the ability to run in solid state when necessary. What I'm wondering is the quality difference in the bimby vs the Lyr3 multibit card. Any insight on this would be appreciated, or point me in the direction of a forum post that discusses this specifically. Thanks all!


----------



## bcowen

davidimdpt said:


> I just ordered the Lyr 3 without the dac last night.  I didn't want to add more electronics than necessary.



Ordered mine the same way (amp only) yesterday.  Got notification it shipped today.  It'll replace the Vali2...assuming it sounds better.


----------



## davidimdpt

bcowen said:


> Ordered mine the same way (amp only) yesterday.  Got notification it shipped today.  It'll replace the Vali2...assuming it sounds better.


nice.  I'm still waiting for mine to ship.  you must have got the last one to ship or today.  ha


----------



## Motocrossman24

Just ordered the lyr3/multibit combo with ss and Tung-Sol tubes. Can’t wait to try it out. Sounds like it’s one of the better schiit products from reviews Iv seen


----------



## ProfFalkin

I originally ordered the Lyr 3 with the new prod Tung Sol 6sn7gtb tubes.   I was curious what the regular NOS tube sounded like, so I ordered one from Schiit.   I also broke down and ordered a LISST tube.   It should arrive next week.   I'm hoping that by comparing the 3, it will be easier for people to pick the right tube for their headphones when they order the Lyr 3.


----------



## GenEricOne

ProfFalkin said:


> I originally ordered the Lyr 3 with the new prod Tung Sol 6sn7gtb tubes.   I was curious what the regular NOS tube sounded like, so I ordered one from Schiit.   I also broke down and ordered a LISST tube.   It should arrive next week.   I'm hoping that by comparing the 3, it will be easier for people to pick the right tube for their headphones when they order the Lyr 3.


Just did something similar. Ordered a Lyr 3 with both LISST and Tung-Sol and added the NOS separately for $8.


----------



## skyline315

I have the stock NOS tube. Very clean and linear sounding.  Easy to understand why Schiit chose it as the default. 

 TS arrives tomorrow.

I suspect these are the only tubes you'll need for this amp.


----------



## eagerears

skyline315 said:


> I suspect these are the only tubes you'll need for this amp.


Fighting words! I ordered mine with the Tung-Sol and the LISST, and also ordered a 1950s Sylvania tube from LeedsRadio. I don't intend to get into crazy levels of tube-rolling, but I do expect to hear a difference between the new tube/LISST and the Sylvania.


----------



## ProfFalkin

skyline315 said:


> I have the stock NOS tube. Very clean and linear sounding.  Easy to understand why Schiit chose it as the default.
> 
> TS arrives tomorrow.
> 
> I suspect these are the only tubes you'll need for this amp.


I found that the TS tube does take about 50 hours of burn in to calm down.  I found it a little bright at first, but it's quite good now.


----------



## Motocrossman24

eagerears said:


> Fighting words! I ordered mine with the Tung-Sol and the LISST, and also ordered a 1950s Sylvania tube from LeedsRadio. I don't intend to get into crazy levels of tube-rolling, but I do expect to hear a difference between the new tube/LISST and the Sylvania.


I also ordered a pair of vintage Sylvanias to try with mine. Interested to see how this amp responds to different tubes


----------



## MarkF786

Has anyone compared the Lyr 3 to the Valhalla 2?

I recently got a Valhalla 2, and also have a Jotunheim - but the Lyr 3 is tempting.


----------



## Wes S

I own all 3 and I am currently burning in my Lyr 3.  I will post some impressions of the differences between the 3 amps, once I have had a little more time with Lyr 3.


----------



## skyline315 (Mar 30, 2018)

MarkF786 said:


> Has anyone compared the Lyr 3 to the Valhalla 2?
> 
> I recently got a Valhalla 2, and also have a Jotunheim - but the Lyr 3 is tempting.


Lyr is better than both. I've already commented on the Jot.

Valhalla wins on soundstage.  More 3D.

That's pretty much it.


----------



## MarkF786

skyline315 said:


> Lyr is better than both. I've already commented on the Jot.
> 
> Valhalla wins on soundstage.  More 3D.
> 
> That's pretty much it.



There is a certain magic with an OTL amp which I wonder if it’s lost with the Lyr.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 30, 2018)

I like my Lyr 3, just as much as my Valhalla 2.  They both impart some of their own magic, in slightly different ways.


----------



## Renato Fury

*For those who own the Lisst tube I have two questions:*

*1) Is the Lisst tube that is on the Lyr 3 page the Lyr 2 or is the Octal?*

*2) How would you describe the signature of this tube?*


----------



## ProfFalkin

I'm not sure what you mean by the first question.  If you order a Lyr 3 with the lisst you get an Octal tube, as it is the one compatible / same as 6SN7 tubes.

Mine should arrive next week, I'll let you know then how it sounds.  That is, if somebody doesn't beat me to the punch.


----------



## Renato Fury

ProfFalkin said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by the first question.  If you order a Lyr 3 with the lisst you get an Octal tube, as it is the one compatible / same as 6SN7 tubes.
> 
> Mine should arrive next week, I'll let you know then how it sounds.  That is, if somebody doesn't beat me to the punch.


What about the signature of normal tubes? Would you say that it is more like an OTL or SS?


----------



## skyline315

Renato Fury said:


> What about the signature of normal tubes? Would you say that it is more like an OTL or SS?


Well...it's a...hybrid.

Very clear/clean sounding, so it doesn't have that overly warm/romantic sound of a good OTL. But, it combines great technicalities with just a touch of tube wetness that adds some warmth without going mushy.


----------



## bcowen

eagerears said:


> Fighting words! I ordered mine with the Tung-Sol and the LISST, and also ordered a 1950s Sylvania tube from LeedsRadio. I don't intend to get into crazy levels of tube-rolling, but I do expect to hear a difference between the new tube/LISST and the Sylvania.



LOL!  No such thing as "too many tubes" in my opinion.  Have a few to start out with when mine gets here.  Also have some 60's Foton 6N8S's on the way too.  If they sound anywhere near as good as the 60's Foton 6N3P's, that might be the only tube needed.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> LOL!  *No such thing as "too many tubes"* in my opinion.  Have a few to start out with when mine gets here.  Also have some 60's Foton 6N8S's on the way too.  If they sound anywhere near as good as the 60's Foton 6N3P's, that might be the only tube needed.



Holy moly - looks like you're definitely ready!!!


----------



## Wes S

Nice collection!  I am on my way as well , to building up a little one myself.  I like your selection.  Looks like you have all the greats.


----------



## quimbo

Got my Lyr 3 today, it is replacing an Asgard 2.  Plugged it in with the LISST tube.  Nice improvement, drives the Senn HD540s and the AKG K240 Sextett MP much better than the Asgard 2.Unfortunately today is too nice to stay inside and I need to do yard work, will let it 'burn-in' the rest of the day.    Will try to report back with impressions in a few days


----------



## Renato Fury

skyline315 said:


> Well...it's a...hybrid.
> 
> Very clear/clean sounding, so it doesn't have that overly warm/romantic sound of a good OTL. But, it combines great technicalities with just a touch of tube wetness that adds some warmth without going mushy.


Yes but are you referring to the stock tube or did you test others? Because I would like to have that romantic OTL sound with tube replacement.


----------



## skyline315

Renato Fury said:


> Yes but are you referring to the stock tube or did you test others? Because I would like to have that romantic OTL sound with tube replacement.


I've tried the stock tube and the Tung-Sol.

I'm not a tube rolling advocate and I'd never suggest you try to transform an amp that way.  Small gains one way or another, sure.  But, if you want something that sounds like a traditional tube amp, then buy one.

All I can say is that I find the sound plenty engaging and atmospheric for my tastes.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I wouldn’t expect it to have that true tube sound. The schiit hybrids are known for being very solid state like. I’d expect more of a solid state sound with a bit of tube fluidity.


----------



## ProfFalkin

skyline315 said:


> I've tried the stock tube and the Tung-Sol.
> 
> I'm not a tube rolling advocate and I'd never suggest you try to transform an amp that way.  Small gains one way or another, sure.  But, if you want something that sounds like a traditional tube amp, then buy one.
> 
> All I can say is that I find the sound plenty engaging and atmospheric for my tastes.


I couldn't agree more. 

I've rolled about 5 different tubes through the Lyr3.  You're not going to be able to turn this amp into a bottlehead crack or EC ZDS.  There are limits to what changing a single tube can do.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I would suggest you try the Lyr 3.  If you don't like it, you can return it.  15 day return period.

At least then you'll know if it's what you're looking for, and if it's not you can go by an OTL amp.


----------



## Renato Fury

_Okay, so to conclude I'd like to better understand the signature of this amp, for example, would you say it's 30% tube and 70% SS? How would you define it?_


----------



## exdmd

quimbo said:


> Got my Lyr 3 today, it is replacing an Asgard 2.  Plugged it in with the LISST tube.  Nice improvement, drives the Senn HD540s and the AKG K240 Sextett MP much better than the Asgard 2.Unfortunately today is too nice to stay inside and I need to do yard work, will let it 'burn-in' the rest of the day.    Will try to report back with impressions in a few days



Using LISST might be limiting SQ for you. It's a hybrid amp, so you should not expect to hear the same magnitude of differences rolling tubes compared to a pure tube amp. But at least try the new Tung Sol 6SN7 Schitt offers. Some who have done extensive rolling with the Lyr 3 most prefer NOS Hytron 6SN7GT (about $80.)


----------



## ProfFalkin

Renato Fury said:


> _Okay, so to conclude I'd like to better understand the signature of this amp, for example, would you say it's 30% tube and 70% SS? How would you define it?_


I would say making a comparison like that would not be doing the amp justice. There's something special about this new architecture that makes comparing it against other amps difficult. 

If I had to use a % rating, I would say it sounds 60% OTL and 60% SS.

Enjoy.


----------



## quimbo

exdmd said:


> Using LISST might be limiting SQ for you. It's a hybrid amp, so you should not expect to hear the same magnitude of differences rolling tubes compared to a pure tube amp. But at least try the new Tung Sol 6SN7 Schitt offers. Some who have done extensive rolling with the Lyr 3 most prefer NOS Hytron 6SN7GT (about $80.)


I did pick up the Tung Sol 6SN7.  Tubes are new to me and I won't have any time the next few days to start learning about this stuff and try that tube.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> I would say making a comparison like that would not be doing the amp justice. There's something special about this new architecture that makes comparing it against other amps difficult.
> 
> If I had to use a % rating, I would say it sounds 60% OTL and 60% SS.
> 
> Enjoy.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> I would say making a comparison like that would not be doing the amp justice. There's something special about this new architecture that makes comparing it against other amps difficult.
> 
> If I had to use a % rating, I would say it sounds 60% OTL and 60% SS.
> 
> Enjoy.


Well said.


----------



## Renato Fury

ProfFalkin said:


> I would say making a comparison like that would not be doing the amp justice. There's something special about this new architecture that makes comparing it against other amps difficult.
> 
> If I had to use a % rating, I would say it sounds 60% OTL and 60% SS.
> 
> Enjoy.


60%/60%, would not it be 50%/50%?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Renato Fury said:


> 60%/60%, would not it be 50%/50%?


No.

60/60.


----------



## ProfFalkin

ProfFalkin said:


> No.
> 
> 60/60.


Maybe 70/50, depending on the tube.


----------



## Renato Fury

ProfFalkin said:


> Maybe 70/50, depending on the tube.


70% Tube and 50% SS?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Renato Fury said:


> 70% Tube and 50% SS?



I believe the Professor is saying the Lyr 3 with Tubes exceeeds expectations significantly, with the LISST, slightly less so.


----------



## MarkF786

I'm currently using a Jot and Valhalla 2 (with a Bimby as the source), but last night I ordered a Lyr 3 to compare.  I wish there was an easy way to stack all three amps, but I'd need spacers to make room for the tubes!  Anyone know of a place to order custom-machined aluminum blocks?

It'll have to be a dual to the death between the Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2 since the form factor will limit me to keeping only one.


----------



## Renato Fury

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I believe the Professor is saying the Lyr 3 with Tubes exceeeds expectations significantly, with the LISST, slightly less so.


Maybe it will exceed yours and his, but if it is an amplifier of a tube amplifier even though it is a hybrid I want it to have that heat that everyone, I do not expect it to be the same as an OTL but I hope but also I do not want it to have the totally flat and neutral signature of an SS, but if Lyr 3 has the best of both worlds then I might consider buying it.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 1, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> ... I do not expect it to be the same as an OTL but I hope but also I do not want it to have the totally flat and neutral signature of an SS...


I'm glad to read that.  Obviously, it is not an OTL amp.  The solid-state part of it won't let it be as wet and lush sounding as you can get with OTL. 

Rather it is one of the best solid-state implementations I have heard, with a liquid and holographic tube sound blended into its DNA.  I've heard many tube amps that sounds far more sterile than the Lyr, and a plenty of solid state amps that were less clean and impactful.  This is what I mean by giving the Lyr a 60/60% rating.

If your goal is to get a sound like what the ZDS, WA6, Crack, or other OTL amps provide, then the Lyr 3 isn't going to sound like those.  What the Lyr does best is take an ultra clean, supremely impactful and detailed solid state sound and gives it a *soul*. 

Is it the best of both worlds?  Hmmm... Maybe.  There's way too much personal preference involved in personal audio to make any claims such as that.  I also think your choice in transducer plays a very important role in this as well.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 1, 2018)

ProfFalkin - Well said again.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> I'm glad to read that.  Obviously, it is not an OTL amp.  The solid-state part of it won't let it be as wet and lush sounding as you can get with OTL.
> 
> Rather it is one of the best solid-state implementations I have heard, with a liquid and holographic tube sound blended into its DNA.  I've heard many tube amps that sounds far more sterile than the Lyr, and a plenty of solid state amps that were less clean and impactful.  This is what I mean by giving the Lyr a 60/60% rating.
> 
> ...



_What the Lyr does best is take an ultra clean, supremely impactful and detailed solid state sound and gives it a *soul*.
_
Wow.  I think that's the best description for a (good) hybrid amp that I've ever seen.  Nice!


----------



## bcowen

exdmd said:


> Using LISST might be limiting SQ for you. It's a hybrid amp, so you should not expect to hear the same magnitude of differences rolling tubes compared to a pure tube amp. But at least try the new Tung Sol 6SN7 Schitt offers. Some who have done extensive rolling with the Lyr 3 most prefer NOS Hytron 6SN7GT (about $80.)



The Hytron 6SN7GT is an excellent sounding tube, though the JAN 5692 is even better.  I don't have my Lyr 3 yet, but the CBS/Hytron 5692 is my current favorite in the Vali2 (using an adapter, of course).


Hytron 6SN7GT on left, 5692 on right:


----------



## Wes S (Apr 1, 2018)

Bcowen - I would love to hear your thoughts, once you give them a try, in the lyr 3.


----------



## quimbo

I put the Tung-Sol 6SN7 into the Lyr 3 this morning. I struggle with describing sound especially since you cannot readily A/B testing,however I do notice a difference in sound, more syrupy.  My Senn HD540 and AKG K240 Sextett (MP) sound really nice with this amp, the Senn HD250 Linear not as nice, the trebles are much harsher, I can adjust that with the Loki


----------



## Renato Fury

_Could anyone compare Lyr 3 to Magni 3?_


----------



## skyline315

Renato Fury said:


> _Could anyone compare Lyr 3 to Magni 3?_


There is no comparison. Lyr is better in every single way.


----------



## Wes S

skyline315 - i just noticed your system in your signature.  I bet the Aeon's sing with the Bifrost MB and Lyr 3!  The next pair of cans I buy are going to be the Aeon Open.  My next purchase is to get the Modi MB.  My weak link, in my system, is my Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> skyline315 - i just noticed your system in your signature.  I bet the Aeon's sing with the Bifrost MB and Lyr 3!  The next pair of cans I buy are going to be the Aeon Open.  My next purchase is to get the Modi MB.  My weak link, in my system, is my Modi 2 Uber.


Yeah, it's as ideal as I could imagine for the AFO.


----------



## Renato Fury

skyline315 said:


> There is no comparison. Lyr is better in every single way.


Oh, I have no doubts about that . But how much better is he? Slightly better? Reasonably better? Much better ?


----------



## sheldaze

Renato Fury said:


> Much better ?



This is much better.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sheldaze said:


> This is much better.



Hey Sheldon, how does the Lyr 3 compare to the rest of your Stable, dynamic and planar headphones?


----------



## sheldaze

Hey Kevin! What's going on?

So I've been reading the thread, and everything so far seems on target. Lyr 3 is not going to sound like the all-tube amplifiers or transformer-coupled amplifiers from DNA. But dang, it sounds good! It has so much speed, driver control, clarity is way up there!

I don't have a whole lot of headphones to challenge it (no HE-6, LCD-4, Susvara), but it sounds good on the Senns, and I've been listening on Utopia now since Friday, and just loving what I hear. Again, it's not going to have the fluid sound of a ZDS. But still, wow!


----------



## MtnMan307

How does the Lyr 3 compare to the Jotunheim?  I just got a balanced cable for my LCD-2's and they are absolutely rocking right now compared to the SE output.  It seems like they really benefit from around 3x the power, the sound is overall more dynamic and punchy with more air.  I still have my Vali 2 that I started out with but thinking of selling it and getting the Lyr 3.


----------



## bcowen

skyline315 said:


> Yeah, it's as ideal as I could imagine for the AFO.



Skyline, have you ever listened to the Alpha Primes by chance?  Wondering how the AFO's improve on them if you have...


----------



## skyline315

bcowen said:


> Skyline, have you ever listened to the Alpha Primes by chance?  Wondering how the AFO's improve on them if you have...


Afraid not.

I was a huge fan of the HE-500 and Dan was never able to lure me away until the AFO.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Okay, I succumbed and am back on the Schiit Train (with a name like Heine, that seems very fitting), ordered the Lyr 3 with th Tung-Sol, a Ken-Rad VT-231, looking forward to having a more power for the Abyss 1266s while I save up for a WA5.


----------



## Zachik

MtnMan307 said:


> How does the Lyr 3 compare to the Jotunheim?  I just got a balanced cable for my LCD-2's and they are absolutely rocking right now compared to the SE output.  It seems like they really benefit from around 3x the power, the sound is overall more dynamic and punchy with more air.  I still have my Vali 2 that I started out with but thinking of selling it and getting the Lyr 3.


I also own a Jot, and wonder whether I should upgrade... Looking to see what others say in response to your question


----------



## Wes S

Hey guys asking about the Jotunheim.  This has been discussed by several people already, a few pages back.  Just thought, you might like to know.


----------



## Wes S

I have had a full week of listening with my Lyr 3 and it continues to impress.  This amp is a keeper, and nice compliment to my Valhalla 2.  I really like being able to give a little tube flavor to all my low impedance cans!


----------



## sheldaze

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Okay, I succumbed and am back on the Schiit Train (with a name like Heine, that seems very fitting), ordered the Lyr 3 with the Tung-Sol, a Ken-Rad VT-231, looking forward to having a more power for the Abyss 1266s while I save up for a WA5.


 That was when the magic happened for me, after plugging in the Ken-Rad (love that tube). However I also suspect a certain amount of burn occurred? Though I'm not sure. I'm not used to this happening on most Schiit amplifiers I have used before.

Regardless, all my tubes were sufficiently burned in (not like MCTH, where I had a brand new tube and needed to let it settle for 24-48 hours). But the Lyr 3 became smooth a week after on and off use - not a constant burn. Just a suggestion that if it sounds slightly brittle - not bright, but just slightly edgy - give it a few days.


----------



## reddog

MtnMan307 said:


> How does the Lyr 3 compare to the Jotunheim?  I just got a balanced cable for my LCD-2's and they are absolutely rocking right now compared to the SE output.  It seems like they really benefit from around 3x the power, the sound is overall more dynamic and punchy with more air.  I still have my Vali 2 that I started out with but thinking of selling it and getting the Lyr 3.


I hope to order a lyr 3 so I can compare it to the jot. But I will not order a Lyr 3 till the end of the month.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 2, 2018)

Lyr 3 vs. Jotunheim - Just a few notes, early on. . .

Lyr 3 has better separation, imaging, depth and a more realistic (organic) sound.  Lyr 3 has some tube magic and solid state magic, as well.

Jotunheim's bass hits harder, but is not as layered/textured.

As stated by several members already, the Lyr 3 is a significant step up, from the Jotunheim, in almost all regards.


----------



## EagleWings

Hey guys, just ordered a Lyr 3 with Tung Sol. I'm coming from a portable audio background and this is going to be my first tube based amp. Any quick Do's and Dont's that I should remember?


----------



## ksorota

MarkF786 said:


> .  I wish there was an easy way to stack all three amps, but I'd need spacers to make room for the tubes!  Anyone know of a place to order custom-machined aluminum blocks?.



Any local machine shop would be willing to work with you...just provide a drawing (with dimensions) and give them a budget and they can let you know the feasibility and level of finish they can provide. I work with two local shops in the Boston area to make custom parts for my work.  They each do great work, but take there time in getting it done.


----------



## ProfFalkin

EagleWings said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a Lyr 3 with Tung Sol. I'm coming from a portable audio background and this is going to be my first tube based amp. Any quick Do's and Dont's that I should remember?


Do: Give the tube about 40 hours to settle in.  The sound will change slightly after that time.  Some tubes I thought were too bright ended up being amazing after they had a chance to burn in.

Do Not:  Touch hot tube.  Pain is nature's way of saying you ****ed up.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

EagleWings said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a Lyr 3 with Tung Sol. I'm coming from a portable audio background and this is going to be my first tube based amp. Any quick Do's and Dont's that I should remember?



There is an excellent 6SN7 Tube Thread, if I wasn’t on my phone I’d post a link, that is a great place to start!


----------



## EagleWings

ProfFalkin said:


> Do: Give the tube about 40 hours to settle in.  The sound will change slightly after that time.  Some tubes I thought were too bright ended up being amazing after they had a chance to burn in.
> 
> Do Not:  Touch hot tube.  Pain is nature's way of saying you ****ed up.



Got it, thanks. One more Q. Any way one could go wrong in inserting the tube into the amp? Like, wrong pins into wrong sockets. Or is it just direct and there is no way one could go wrong there?



Wildcatsare1 said:


> There is an excellent 6SN7 Tube Thread, if I wasn’t on my phone I’d post a link, that is a great place to start!



Awesome, thanks. I'll look for it.


----------



## ProfFalkin

EagleWings said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a Lyr 3 with Tung Sol. I'm coming from a portable audio background and this is going to be my first tube based amp. Any quick Do's and Dont's that I should remember?


Do: Give the stock tube a solid week before you try rolling different tubes.  This way you know what, if any, improvements you want the next tube to make.

Do Not: Buy $1500 worth of tubes right off the bat.  Chances are good you'll end up wasting $1450 in tubes you will never use.


----------



## ProfFalkin

EagleWings said:


> Got it, thanks. One more Q. Any way one could go wrong in inserting the tube into the amp? Like, wrong pins into wrong sockets. Or is it just direct and there is no way one could go wrong there?



There is a notch that you line up, which will prevent insertion unless you force it.  It's very apparent when you see it.


----------



## Zachik

sheldaze said:


> That was when the magic happened for me, after plugging in the Ken-Rad (love that tube). However I also suspect a certain amount of burn occurred? Though I'm not sure. I'm not used to this happening on most Schiit amplifiers I have used before.
> 
> Regardless, all my tubes were sufficiently burned in (not like MCTH, where I had a brand new tube and needed to let it settle for 24-48 hours). But the Lyr 3 became smooth a week after on and off use - not a constant burn. Just a suggestion that if it sounds slightly brittle - not bright, but just slightly edgy - give it a few days.


I got 2 quick questions:
1. This Ken-Rad tube that you like so much - can you please provide more info (full name, estimated cost, etc.)?
2. I already own Jot and MCTH, and thinking of buying the Lyr3 to replace Jot (while keeping MCTH). Can you provide comparison to MCTH? 

Thanks!


----------



## EagleWings

@ProfFalkin , thanks for your answers. Much appreciated! Can't wait to receive it and give it a go..


----------



## uncletim

HD800 Anyone? Considering...


----------



## exdmd

EagleWings said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a Lyr 3 with Tung Sol. I'm coming from a portable audio background and this is going to be my first tube based amp. Any quick Do's and Dont's that I should remember?



Schiit is pretty good about providing protection for their equipment but it is a good idea to have your phones connected before you turn on the amp with volume at zero. Tubes want to see a load. Warm up a few minutes before you listen. If you need to change phones turn down volume to zero. If you want to change the tube turn off wait a good half hour for the tube to cool completely. Don't rush. Enjoy your Lyr 3!


----------



## EagleWings

exdmd said:


> Schiit is pretty good about providing protection for their equipment but it is a good idea to have your phones connected before you turn on the amp with volume at zero. Tubes want to see a load. Warm up a few minutes before you listen. If you need to change phones turn down volume to zero. If you want to change the tube turn off wait a good half hour for the tube to cool completely. Don't rush. Enjoy your Lyr 3!



I see. Thanks for this tip.. Appreciate it.


----------



## tafens

Wes S said:


> As stated by several members already, the Lyr 3 is a significant step up, from the Jotunheim, in almost all regards.



Is the Lyr 3 also the same step up when compared to Jotunheim running balanced?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 2, 2018)

tafens said:


> Is the Lyr 3 also the same step up when compared to Jotunheim running balanced?


Yes.  I think so anyway.  I never really used the 1/4" connection on the Jot, just the XLR.

Edit - I moved the Jot to my home setup, where it now serves as a balanced pre for my studio monitors.  Works wonderfully for that.  It's amazing how versitile that thing is.


----------



## Wes S

tafens said:


> Is the Lyr 3 also the same step up when compared to Jotunheim running balanced?


Yes.  I only used it balanced.


----------



## sheldaze

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Okay, I succumbed and am back on the Schiit Train (with a name like Heine, that seems very fitting), ordered the Lyr 3 with th Tung-Sol, a Ken-Rad VT-231, looking forward to having a more power for the Abyss 1266s while I save up for a WA5.





Zachik said:


> I got 2 quick questions:
> 1. This Ken-Rad tube that you like so much - can you please provide more info (full name, estimated cost, etc.)?
> 2. I already own Jot and MCTH, and thinking of buying the Lyr3 to replace Jot (while keeping MCTH). Can you provide comparison to MCTH?
> 
> Thanks!



Ken-Rad VT-231 is the one! Though as @Wildcatsare1 said, there's a whole thread on the topic of 6SN7 tubes: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/
And I would not get too up on the particular tube - just one that I liked in a few amplifiers.

Probably not too succinct either for me to try summarize MCTH vs Lyr 3. I liken it to comparing an MG MGB against a Porsche 911 - both are good cars!
Though I'm hopeful a few people will post impressions after an upcoming meet where I'll have both. We'll see!


----------



## Tuneslover (Apr 2, 2018)

I suspect that the Lyr3 doesn't have enough internal space to accommodate balanced in's & out's like the Jotunheim which creates interesting decision making in determining which unit to buy (Jot or Lyr3).  I guess if you were a Lyr2 fan then balanced wouldn't have been a concern or if you need both then you could step up to the Mjolnir2.  Myself, I have the Jotunheim (running balanced) and also dabbled with the Vali2 hybrid tube amp, sold that and purchased the much better and more versatile Project Ember.  I figure I'm covered pretty well.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Tuneslover said:


> I figure I'm coverted pretty well


I guess.  Unless you take into account the Lyr sounds better than the Vali, Horizon, and Jotunheim.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Does the lyr3 with multibit dac require any drivers? I checked the downloads section and none of the multibit units are listed, it’s all modi Uber/Bifrost etc. my unit should be here by the end of the week, can’t wait to break it in.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 2, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> Does the lyr3 with multibit dac require any drivers? I checked the downloads section and none of the multibit units are listed, it’s all modi Uber/Bifrost etc. my unit should be here by the end of the week, can’t wait to break it in.


Yes.   They self install when you connect the device.

Don't use the ones on the download page.  They don't work.  The Cmedia installer never detects the device and installation won't proceed.  You also can't really extract the drivers from the package in a way that Windows will allow you to manually import or install them.

If you have any issues with installation, your best bet is to follow this process:    (I'm assuming Win10 here.  Win 7 will be similar.)

Unplug usb cable.
Open Device Manager. (Shortcut is Win+X keys)
Select View > Show hidden devices.
Under "Sound, video and game controllers" remove any listed Schiit drivers. *Choose to delete them from disk when prompted.*
Plug in usb cable. Confirm that the Schiit DAC appears in device list.
Right click on Schiit device, select Update Drivers > Search automatically for updated driver software
New drivers should download and install.
Reboot
Enjoy.

This process fixed a WASAPI direct issue I was having with my Gumby and JRiver Media Center, so I'm confident it will resolve most any driver installation issue people might have.


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> Yes.   They self install when you connect the device.
> 
> Don't use the ones on the download page.  They don't work.  The Cmedia installer never detects the device and installation won't proceed.  You also can't really extract the drivers from the package in a way that Windows will allow you to manually import or install them.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response.


----------



## Tuneslover

ProfFalkin said:


> I guess.  Unless you take into account the Lyr sounds better than the Vali, Horizon, and Jotunheim.



I assume you mean the Lyr3.  I never owned any iteration of the Lyr so I can't comment on your remarks.  All that I can say is that I am happily covered amp wise.  Rock on.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Tuneslover said:


> All that I can say is that I am happily covered amp wise.  Rock on.


That's what is important!


----------



## JoeKickass

ProfFalkin said:


> Edit - I moved the Jot to my home setup, where it now serves as a balanced pre for my studio monitors.  Works wonderfully for that.  It's amazing how versitile that thing is.


Is it very good? I thought the Jotunheim was supposed to be just so-so as a preamp...

I have one too but I use a SYS for my monitors because I read some reviews saying the Jot's preamp output was underwhelming.

Though the SYS can't do balanced!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Well, I'm using a $500 amp to control volume on $150 monitors to play $30 computer games.  It is far better than it needs to be.


----------



## junki

quimbo said:


> Got my Lyr 3 today, it is replacing an Asgard 2.  Plugged it in with the LISST tube.


A few people on another forum were joking around wondering when someone would buy the Lyr 3 with the LISST tube... can't believe it happened.


----------



## pichu

junki said:


> A few people on another forum were joking around wondering when someone would buy the Lyr 3 with the LISST tube... can't believe it happened.


We need impressions now


----------



## quimbo (Apr 3, 2018)

I truly don't care what anyone says, joking or not, be yourself and I will be myself.    I have had the Tung-Sol tube in for a day now and can hear the difference, also ordered a 6SN7gt Ken-Rad Tube *Flat Black Plates*1950* earlier today.  The Lyr 3 and Tung-Sol make my Senn HD540 Ref 1's sing.  Lyr 3 is an improvement over the Asgard 2 for me, YMMV.  I gifted the Asgard 2 to a friend which will be an improvement over his current set up for him. It's all relative, a lot of other people seem to be waiting for someone to tell them to buy it, if you have the means just buy it and judge for yourself if it was a worthwhile upgrade


----------



## heliosphann

I've got a "revised" Jot and a Lyr 3 and did a little comparing yesterday. Not that in depth yet, but some initial impressions are:

Jot had slightly more dynamic punch, with heftier low end and good extension. I didn't notice any sibilance or brightness up top. This is supposedly what the revision addressed.

The Lyr 3 (with NP Tung Sol) had strong dynamics and solid low end, but surprisingly had more extension up top with overall more clarity.

Mids seemed pretty similar on both amps and I think the Lyr 3's soundstage was slightly bigger, but I'll have to look into that further.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I also bought the lyr3 with the Tung-Sol and lisst ...not sure how having the flexibility to have hybrid and solidstate in a single amp would be a bad thing. If one is better then the other always, that’s what I’ll run...but I don’t expect that to be the case and enjoy hybrids and ss for their own unique qualities.


----------



## Alcophone

heliosphann said:


> I've got a "revised" Jot and a Lyr 3 and did a little comparing yesterday. Not that in depth yet, but some initial impressions are:
> 
> Jot had slightly more dynamic punch, with heftier low end and good extension. I didn't notice any sibilance or brightness up top. This is supposedly what the revision addressed.



Is there anything on the interwebs from Jason about this revision?


----------



## Motocrossman24

I thought the “new jot” was just adding the option for multibit? I don’t recall hearing any other changes.


----------



## heliosphann (Apr 3, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Is there anything on the interwebs from Jason about this revision?



Not officially, but he's talked about replacing/upgrading components without making noted revisions.

Several other people have also reported that the newer production Jots are different sounding than the initial units.


----------



## Alcophone

heliosphann said:


> Not officially, but he's talked about replacing/upgrading components without making noted revisions.
> 
> Several other people have also reported that the newer production Jots are different sounding than the initial units.


Yeah, I know they do this on occasion and I've seen the assertion of a certain someone on a certain other forum not remembering it sounding like that, but that's about it. Welp, maybe we get an actual confirmation at some point, along with a "all Jotunheims produced since <date> have the change" note. I gotta say, this stuff makes it harder to interpret reviews.


----------



## Wes S

I rolled a ken rad black glass vt231, and the detail and weight of the notes, is amazing.  The bass is tight and textured, with great impact.  This tube sounds really good with movies, because of the super wide soundstage, details, and bass impact.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I rolled a ken rad black glass vt231, and the detail and weight of the notes, is amazing.  The bass is tight and textured, with great impact.  This tube sounds really good with movies, because of the super wide soundstage, details, and bass impact.



It figures that in all my horde of audio tubes I don't have a single Ken-Rad VT-231.  Have some Ken-Rad 6SN7GT's, but no VT-231's.  Oh well.  First up when my Lyr3 gets here will be the Hytron 6SN7 and 5692.  Both of them were excellent in a couple different big rig preamp(s), but the 5692 always took the honors, and the 5692 is awesome in the Vali2.  Maybe I won't even need a KR VT-231.  But then I'm anal, so I probably better start looking for one now.


----------



## dr cornelius

JoeKickass said:


> Is it very good? I thought the Jotunheim was supposed to be just so-so as a preamp...
> 
> I have one too but I use a SYS for my monitors because I read some reviews saying the Jot's preamp output was underwhelming.
> 
> Though the SYS can't do balanced!



The Jotunheim works very well as a pre - I use it balanced out to a pair of Genelecs and it sounds excellent.


----------



## Motocrossman24

bcowen said:


> It figures that in all my horde of audio tubes I don't have a single Ken-Rad VT-231.  Have some Ken-Rad 6SN7GT's, but no VT-231's.  Oh well.  First up when my Lyr3 gets here will be the Hytron 6SN7 and 5692.  Both of them were excellent in a couple different big rig preamp(s), but the 5692 always took the honors, and the 5692 is awesome in the Vali2.  Maybe I won't even need a KR VT-231.  But then I'm anal, so I probably better start looking for one now.



The 6sn7 and vt231 are the same thing, they just labeled the vt231 for military purposes and smoked them...obviously as long as they’re the same year range.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> It figures that in all my horde of audio tubes I don't have a single Ken-Rad VT-231.  Have some Ken-Rad 6SN7GT's, but no VT-231's.  Oh well.  First up when my Lyr3 gets here will be the Hytron 6SN7 and 5692.  Both of them were excellent in a couple different big rig preamp(s), but the 5692 always took the honors, and the 5692 is awesome in the Vali2.  Maybe I won't even need a KR VT-231.  But then I'm anal, so I probably better start looking for one now.





Motocrossman24 said:


> The 6sn7 and vt231 are the same thing, they just labeled the vt231 for military purposes and smoked them...obviously as long as they’re the same year range.


As long as they have the staggered plates, they are the same.


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> The 6sn7 and vt231 are the same thing, they just labeled the vt231 for military purposes and smoked them...obviously as long as they’re the same year range.



Yup, just like the 6SN7 and 5692.  The 5692 sounds better...at least to me.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 3, 2018)

.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> .


You don't say...


----------



## winders

I am not a fan of the 5692 tubes. They do not sound better than the 6SN7 tubes from the 1940's and early 1950's.


----------



## ProfFalkin

winders said:


> I am not a fan of the 5692 tubes. They do not sound better than the 6SN7 tubes from the 1940's and early 1950's.


My experience with the IHA-1 and the rca 5692 red base was much the same.  Considering what they cost, I'd avoid it.


----------



## ToddRaymond (Apr 3, 2018)

I'm very happy to see the Lyr 3 being compatible with both 6922 and 6SN7, as I have a crapload of great sounding 6N3P-E tubes.  They may not be as impressive as 6SN7s, but they cost me about $2/each.

Just waiting for a balanced Lyr 3, or Mjolnir 3 with 'Coherence' and 'Continuity' with a 'Gumby' level DAC card.  [EDIT:  Or at the very least, it's an exciting prospect to me.]


----------



## Pappas3278

Turdski said:


> I'm very happy to see the Lyr 3 being compatible with both 6922 and 6SN7, as I have a crapload of great sounding 6N3P-E tubes.  They may not be as impressive as 6SN7s, but they cost me about $2/each.
> 
> Just waiting for a balanced Lyr 3, or Mjolnir 3 with 'Coherence' and 'Continuity' with a 'Gumby' level DAC card.


That could be a long wait for a balanced option that probably won't ever happen.  Just sayin.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Turdski said:


> I'm very happy to see the Lyr 3 being compatible with both 6922 and 6SN7, as I have a crapload of great sounding 6N3P-E tubes.  They may not be as impressive as 6SN7s, but they cost me about $2/each.
> 
> Just waiting for a balanced Lyr 3, or Mjolnir 3 with 'Coherence' and 'Continuity' with a 'Gumby' level DAC card.



Is it compatible with 6922? It’s not listed in the manual


----------



## ToddRaymond (Apr 3, 2018)

Pappas3278 said:


> That could be a long wait for a balanced option that probably won't ever happen.  Just sayin.



Pure conjecture.



Motocrossman24 said:


> Is it compatible with 6922? It’s not listed in the manual



Yep!  It's mentioned on the FAQ page of the product page – http://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-3 – you would just need an adapter like this one:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GO...8P-CV181-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/201096723413

EDIT:  Or, for 6N3/5670/WE396A tubes, this one:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...65-CV181-tube-converter-adapter-/201564703408 – I've ordered a few of times from this second seller, and have had great luck thus far.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Turdski said:


> Pure conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think you read what you think you read.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Yeah, how so?


----------



## bcowen (Apr 3, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> My experience with the IHA-1 and the rca 5692 red base was much the same.  Considering what they cost, I'd avoid it.



I'm in agreement if we're talking RCA's, and that goes for the RCA 5691 (6SL7) as well.  People were foaming at the mouth and paying stupid prices for them 20 years ago, and a 50's Sylvania or Ken-Rad VT-229 were 1/4 the price and better in every respect.

But the JAN-CHY 5692 is in a different league than the RCA. We'll see how it does in the Lyr 3.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Turdski said:


> Pure conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just re read the faq, it does say you can use them with an adaptor but recommends the 6sn7 as they say it performs and sounds better


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> I'm in agreement if we're talking RCA's, and that goes for the RCA 5691 (6SL7) as well.  People were foaming at the mouth and paying stupid prices for them 20 years ago, and a 50's Sylvania or Ken-Rad VT-229 were 1/4 the price and better in every respect.
> 
> But the JAN-CHY 5692 is in a different league than the RCA. We'll see how it does in the Lyr 3.


JAN just means Joint Army Navy.  CHY is a manufacturer code for Hytron or CBS-Hytron.  The other JAN 5692 tubes would be JAN-CRC made by RCA.   To my knowledge, only Hytron or RCA made 5692 tubes as a premium version of the 6SN7. 

Even the Hytron 5692 tubes I had didn't sound all that good.  Preferences differ though.  I'd still stay away due to price.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 3, 2018)

Turdski said:


> Yeah, how so?





			
				Schiit.com said:
			
		

> we changed tube type (*from noval*, 6DJ8-family tubes,* to octal*, 6SN7-family tubes) because they sound better and perform better.



So, while the 6922 is in the 6DJ8 family, the FAQ does NOT say they are compatible.

I already asked Schiit about other similarly specced tubes to the 6SN7 w/ or w/out adapters.  The reply was "Lyr 3 accommodates any 6SN7, 6N8S or 5692 tube."   Period.   It doesn't mean you can't take the risk and plug in another tube with an adapter, but it is exactly that - a risk.

I just wanted to be very specific about this, as it would be a shame if someone misspoke, and other Head-Fi readers were duped into taking a risk they had no intention of taking.   Such as someone saying 6922 tubes are supported tube types, or that Schiit said they were supported on their FAQ page.

Edit - My apologies, I just saw this little section:   "Yes, and if you want to use them, you can still use them in Lyr 3, with an adapter. Lyr 3’s plate voltage isn’t very different than Lyr or Lyr 2."

I would say that is very non-specific though, as I can't view the old Lyr 2 page to see what tubes were compatible. http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual.pdf

It is rather annoying when you find information published by a company that contradicts the information their tech support gives you.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> JAN just means Joint Army Navy.  CHY is a manufacturer code for Hytron or CBS-Hytron.  The other JAN 5692 tubes would be JAN-CRC made by RCA.   To my knowledge, only Hytron or RCA made 5692 tubes as a premium version of the 6SN7.
> 
> Even the Hytron 5692 tubes I had didn't sound all that good.  Preferences differ though.  I'd still stay away due to price.



FWIW, Sylvania and GE made 5692's, and I've seen some references to Raytheon manufacturing them as well though I've never seen one in the flesh.  I had some Sylvanias in the past that I didn't much care for, and I've never even looked for a GE as I've never heard _any_ GE tube I could stand to listen to.


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> FWIW, Sylvania and GE made 5692's, and I've seen some references to Raytheon manufacturing them as well though I've never seen one in the flesh.  I had some Sylvanias in the past that I didn't much care for, and I've never even looked for a GE as I've never heard _any_ GE tube I could stand to listen to.


I'll agree with that.   GE tubes are garbage. 

I thought the Sylvanias were made by / rebranded RCAs?


----------



## Motocrossman24

I thought to my understanding the 5692 were all made by rca and rebranded...http://vintagetubeservices.com/selecting-your-tube-is-an-art/ has a ton of good information on these types of tubes and tubes in general on his website. Btw does anyone know the plate voltage of the lyr3? Or lyr2 for that matter since they’re supposedly close


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> I thought to my understanding the 5692 were all made by rca and rebranded...http://vintagetubeservices.com/selecting-your-tube-is-an-art/ has a ton of good information on these types of tubes and tubes in general on his website. Btw does anyone know the plate voltage of the lyr3? Or lyr2 for that matter since they’re supposedly close



I tried hard to get full specs from Schiit's support, but they wouldn't bite.  It's not like I have an in with them or anything.  Especially now that I've annoyed the hell out of them.  hehehe


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> I tried hard to get full specs from Schiit's support, but they wouldn't bite.  It's not like I have an in with them or anything.  Especially now that I've annoyed the hell out of them.  hehehe



Guess your not the only one, sent them a few too many messages the past few days, the last few have been 1-3 word responses, I got the point.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

They are very busy making new Lyr 3’s, I heard back that demand was very high and they are working hard to keep up with that demand.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I’m honestly surprised this thread isn’t booming, I figured it would be quite a popular amp


----------



## EagleWings (Apr 3, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> They are very busy making new Lyr 3’s, I heard back that demand was very high and they are working hard to keep up with that demand.



Has your's shipped?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

EagleWings said:


> Has yours shipped?



I ordered on Easter and no won shipping yet, and I am in dire need, sold both of my headphone amps!


----------



## winders

I ordered mine yesterday and it has not shipped yet. I sold my Mjolnir 2 which I wasn’t using but I still have my Vali 2.


----------



## EagleWings

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I ordered on Easter and no won shipping yet, and I am in dire need, sold both of my headphone amps!



Cool. I ordered mine yesterday. I am not exactly in dire need. But I am psyched as this is my first discrete amp. Can't wait.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Man, a number of individuals on this forum seem to enjoy working overtime to be "right", when they can't see their own mirror.  All I was doing was expressing a little enthusiasm for this product, based on the copy Jason himself wrote on Schiit's website.

Anyway, by the sounds of some reports on another forum, it should punch well* above what the multibit DAC module is capable of.

(*One's mileage may vary, yadda.)


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> I'll agree with that.   GE tubes are garbage.
> 
> I thought the Sylvanias were made by / rebranded RCAs?



I guess it all depends on who should be believed:

Uncle Kevin (Upscale) states they were made by RCA, GE, and CBS.
Brent Jesse says they were all made by RCA and rebranded for others (although it's just a suspicion regarding RCA rebranding them for CBS/Hytron and Sylvania)
SND states RCA, CBS/Hytron, and Sylvania made them
TubeWorld: same as Uncle Kev
Another: Westinghouse made them in both the US and England with a Westinghouse brand
Another: GE made them all, including the RCA's

I give up.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I was taking a look at my Tube Stock last night, I have a Sylvania “Chrome Top”  and an RCA rebranded Motorola. So with the Ken Rad on the way, I’m set for quality tubes. Now, since I did the 2 day shipping, come on shipping notice so I it gets here on Friday!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 4, 2018)

Wildcatscare1 - I am interested to hear your thoughts on the "Chrome Top".  That is an affordable tube, at the moment.


----------



## davidimdpt

I got mine yesterday.  All I can say is that the sound from my ether c flows was amazing.  These cans really shine with enough power.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> Wildcatscare1 - I am interested to hear your thoughts on the "Chrome Top".  That is an affordable tube, at the moment.



I’ll let you know, still waiting on my shipping notice, I also found a “Motorola” Brown Base, I think that’s a rebranded RCA. I’m still trying to find more about the latter on the internet.


----------



## winders

I think it is "Chrome Dome"......


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’ll let you know, still waiting on my shipping notice, I also found a “Motorola” Brown Base, I think that’s a rebranded RCA. I’m still trying to find more about the latter on the internet.


If you can find an EIA code on the tube, this might help.  http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/eia-codes.html or https://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=30


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed a number of posts because they weren't related to the Schiit Audio Lyr 3. Please keep all posts within the Posting Guidelines. Thank you, everyone.


----------



## Wes S

AxelCloris said:


> We've removed a number of posts because they weren't related to the Schiit Audio Lyr 3. Please keep all posts within the Posting Guidelines. Thank you, everyone.


Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Just scored a NOS National Union 6SN7GT grey glass, from 40's!  The sound signature is supposed to be a cross between the Ken Rad, and RCA grey glass, so I think it might be awesome, in the Lyr 3.  I will report back after burn in.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> If you can find an EIA code on the tube, this might help.  http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/eia-codes.html or https://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=30



Thank you Sir, so the “Motorola” is a 6SN7GTA, immediately below has G3M, Then on the base has the Motorola trademark, made in the USA, and serial number 312344. I don’t see anything that explains the G3M and guessing the serial number is “312” is Sylvania manufactured week 3 of 1944? Am I completely off?


----------



## Renato Fury

Okay, so, uh, anybody there who already used the Octal Lisst could describe the sound? I would also like to know if these tubes have some life span or if they can last a lifetime.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 4, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Thank you Sir, so the “Motorola” is a 6SN7GTA, immediately below has G3M, Then on the base has the Motorola trademark, made in the USA, and serial number 312344. I don’t see anything that explains the G3M and guessing the serial number is “312” is Sylvania manufactured week 3 of 1944? Am I completely off?


I think you are on the right track.  First three numbers should be manufacturer code, the others... well, it gets confusing from there.  Try finding Westinghouse date codes, for example.

312 should be Sylvania though, so I'd bet it is a Sylvania made tube.

Edit: 312 344 might mean a Sylvania made tube, dated 1953, 44th week.   Source = https://www.ebay.com/gds/The-Open-D...n-made-Vacuum-Tubes-/10000000177866446/g.html


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> I think you are on the right track.  First three numbers should be manufacturer code, the others... well, it gets confusing from there.  Try finding Westinghouse date codes, for example.
> 
> 312 should be Sylvania though, so I'd bet it is a Sylvania made tube.
> 
> Edit: 312 344 might mean a Sylvania made tube, dated 1953, 44th week.   Source = https://www.ebay.com/gds/The-Open-D...n-made-Vacuum-Tubes-/10000000177866446/g.html



Okay, this Link May help, the 312 is Sylvania, the 344 is “3” is made in 1953, 44 is the 44th week (I think).

https://www.ebay.com/gds/The-Open-D...n-made-Vacuum-Tubes-/10000000177866446/g.html


----------



## ProfFalkin

Uhh... jinx?


----------



## GenEricOne

Just received my Lyr 3. Bought one of each compatible tube Schiit sells (including LISST) and plan to compare them over the next few weeks as I've never owned or even demoed a tube amp before. 

Initial impressions: it's functional! That's all I've got after listening to 3 songs.


----------



## Wes S

To all - Just in case you don't know, there is also a thread on Lyr 3 tube rolling.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/#post-14152138

Not much going on there yet . . .


----------



## ModMax

First off, cheers to all of the contributors of this thread for taking the time to share your impressions and do much of the legwork earwork with the Lyr 3 and various tubes/valves.  

I just place my order for a Lyr 3 + Gumby.  I opted for the Lyr 3 with LISST + TS tube, but went ahead an also ordered the stock 6N8S tube for an extra $8.  This will be my first set of Schiit gear, so looking forward to hearing all of the positive impressions for myself.

Solid state duties will continue to be delegated to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon, unless the Lyr 3 proves to be versatile enough to replace it.  Senn HD800S will be the primary headphones for enjoyment.

Already getting impatient waiting on the shipping notice.


----------



## EagleWings

Just an FYI for the ones who’d already ordered or planning to order. I placed my order on early Monday morning and I just received the shipping notification email. The site says that Lyr3 ships in 1-3 Days. To be safe, consider it as 2-4 Days.


----------



## ModMax

EagleWings said:


> Just an FYI for the ones who’d already ordered or planning to order. I placed my order on early Monday morning and I just received the shipping notification email. The site says that Lyr3 ships in 1-3 Days. To be safe, consider it as 2-4 Days.



Thanks for the heads-up!  This will give me some time to clean up my desktop and get some cables on order.


----------



## winders

EagleWings said:


> Just an FYI for the ones who’d already ordered or planning to order. I placed my order on early Monday morning and I just received the shipping notification email. The site says that Lyr3 ships in 1-3 Days. To be safe, consider it as 2-4 Days.



I ordered mine on Monday at 2PM PDT and have heard nothing......


----------



## Wildcatsare1

winders said:


> I ordered mine on Monday at 2PM PDT and have heard nothing......



Ordered mine Easter Sunday, so basically first thing MondayAM and just received my notice, so you should be hearing soon.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Well, lets see who wins...


----------



## winders (Apr 5, 2018)

Here are the tubes I will be trying:





They are, from left to right:

1. A real 3 hole Sylvania "Bad Boy" tube from 1953
2. Sylvania JAN CHS 6SN7W
3. RCA grey glass


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 5, 2018)

winders said:


> Here are the tubes I will be trying:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My money is on the Bad Boy.    I haven't heard a 6SN7W, curious about it though!

I tried the RCA grey glass.   I won't comment on what I thought about it, no reason to influence your impressions.

You're using the AFO, right?   Or was that someone else...   I can't recall.


----------



## winders

ProfFalkin said:


> My money is on the Bad Boy.    I haven't heard a 6SN7W, curious about it though!
> 
> I tried the RCA grey glass.   I won't comment on what I thought about it, no reason to influence your impressions.
> 
> You're using the AFO, right?   Or was that someone else...   I can't recall.



AFO? What is that?

The Bad Boy should be good. But, the 6SN7W may be the sleeper. I suspect the RCA grey glass will be too lush....


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 5, 2018)

winders said:


> AFO? What is that?
> 
> The Bad Boy should be good. But, the 6SN7W may be the sleeper. I suspect the RCA grey glass will be too lush....



Aeon Flow Open.   (I guess that means no.  hehe)   Just curious which headphones you're using to get a point of reference.

I suspect your suspicions are correct on the RCA.

Edit - Hd650, i should have just looked earlier.


----------



## winders

ProfFalkin said:


> Aeon Flow Open.   (I guess that means no.  hehe)   Just curious which headphones you're using to get a point of reference.
> 
> I suspect your suspicions are correct on the RCA.



I use Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. If the Lyr 3 replaces my Vali 2 at my desk, I will use it mostly as a preamp for my powered nearfield speakers. I only used headphones when the music will wake up my wife or interfere with one of her business calls. Otherwise, I am listening to my 2 channels system or my nearfield setup.


----------



## winders

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Ordered mine Easter Sunday, so basically first thing MondayAM and just received my notice, so you should be hearing soon.



It's after 5PM on the west coast and I did not get a notice that my Lyr 3 shipped. I guess I won't see it until next week sometime.


----------



## JohnBal

winders said:


> Here are the tubes I will be trying:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RCA has a reputation for being warm and lush. The Sylvanias are usually more linear sounding. But the 6SN7W is a really fine tube and the price it commands reflects that. Let us know how it goes.
I ordered my Lyr3 Tuesday evening. Still waiting for shipment notification... trying to be patient...


----------



## Renato Fury

ProfFalkin said:


> Well, lets see who wins...


_*Could you post a picture of your Lyr 3 with the Lisst tube?*_


----------



## TTGuy

Weird about shipping times.  I ordered a Lyr 3 with 4490 DAC card, TS + LISST tubes, and the stock tube as an extra on Sunday at 3:48 PM PDT.  It shipped first thing Monday morning and was delivered to me in Canada Tuesday by 9:45 AM PDT.  I did pay $50 for shipping but even though it had to clear customs it was delivered in 42 hours after I ordered on a holiday.  A+ to Schiit for shipping and Fedex for delivery.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 6, 2018)

Interesting how people like different signatures. I really like the KenRad with staggered plates, so far.


----------



## quimbo

I received a 6SN7gt Ken-Rad Tube *Flat Black Plates*1950* last night and replaced the Tung-Sol 6SN7 (New), been playing music for about 4 hours now, still burning in.  Prefer the sound over the Tung-Sol.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Ordered mine Easter Sunday, so basically first thing MondayAM and just received my notice, so you should be hearing soon.



Ordered mine last Thursday, and received it yesterday.  Got it hooked up last night, but refuse to listen to it until it plays for at least a day.  Not that that will be a full break-in, but it should be enough to polish off the rough edges.  

Stuck a Hytron 6SN7GT in there for now...


----------



## Wes S

Nice stack of Schiit!  I am interested to hear your thoughts on the Hytron.  I bet those Alpha Primes are going to sing, with that tube!


----------



## MarkF786

I received my Lyr 3 today and am giving it a quick listen using the 'phones I know best, Sennheiser HD580.

I've been using the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 until now, switching between them on whim.  My initial impression is that the Lyr leans more towards the Jot in sound than the Valhalla.  It's more analytical and solid-state sounding, rather than having the tubey euphonic warmth like the Valhalla.  Maybe the sound will change as the Tung Sol tube breaks in.

Ideally I'd want to keep only two amps.  The Valhalla would likely stay, but between the Jot and Lyr it's hard to say if the improved sound of the Lyr would outweigh the Jot's balanced output.  I've invested in balanced cables for my various phones, though I do have a quality XLR-to-1/4" adapter cable to continue using them with the Lyr.

Time will tell.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 6, 2018)

MarkF786 said:


> I received my Lyr 3 today and am giving it a quick listen using the 'phones I know best, Sennheiser HD580.
> 
> I've been using the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 until now, switching between them on whim.  My initial impression is that the Lyr leans more towards the Jot in sound than the Valhalla.  It's more analytical and solid-state sounding, rather than having the tubey euphonic warmth like the Valhalla.  Maybe the sound will change as the Tung Sol tube breaks in.
> 
> ...


It is hard to beat the Valhalla 2, with the HD 580, 600's.  The ability to tube roll, the sound a bit, with Lyr 3 vs. Jot, has me thinking my Jot, is going to my office or is gonna get sold soon.  I am interested to see which one you choose.


----------



## MarkF786

Wes S said:


> It is hard to beat the Valhalla 2, with the HD 580, 600's.  The ability to tube roll, the sound a bit, with Lyr 3 vs. Jot, has me thinking my Jot, is going to my office or is gonna get sold soon.  I am interested to see which one you choose.



I agree - and most of my headphones are high impedance (HD580/600/650/800S and Amiron).  The only lower impedance headphones I regularly use are the Elear.


----------



## winders

winders said:


> I ordered mine on Monday at 2PM PDT and have heard nothing......



Received my shipping notice before 8AM PDT this morning.


----------



## MarkF786

I used my multimeter to match the output of my Jotunheim and Lyr 3.  The Jot's knob needs to be rotated a little further to match the Lyr.  Before, when I was matching the knobs by eye, the Lyr sounded "better" because it was slightly louder.

Now when I switch between the two amps, I can't really say that I hear any difference.  I wish I had a mechanical switch to quickly change between the two, because with the second it takes to manually move the headphone cable, the break in sound makes it harder to hear differences.

I'll keep it at, but any difference in sound quality seems fairly insignificant so far.  There's not a chance in hell I'd be able to pick out the amps in a blind test.

I can hear a difference between the Jot and Valhalla though.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 6, 2018)

MarkF786 said:


> I used my multimeter to match the output of my Jotunheim and Lyr 3.  The Jot's knob needs to be rotated a little further to match the Lyr.  Before, when I was matching the knobs by eye, the Lyr sounded "better" because it was slightly louder.
> 
> Now when I switch between the two amps, I can't really say that I hear any difference.  I wish I had a mechanical switch to quickly change between the two, because with the second it takes to manually move the headphone cable, the break in sound makes it harder to hear differences.
> 
> ...


That is interesting.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 6, 2018)

MarkF786 said:


> I used my multimeter to match the output of my Jotunheim and Lyr 3.  The Jot's knob needs to be rotated a little further to match the Lyr.  Before, when I was matching the knobs by eye, the Lyr sounded "better" because it was slightly louder.
> 
> Now when I switch between the two amps, I can't really say that I hear any difference.  I wish I had a mechanical switch to quickly change between the two, because with the second it takes to manually move the headphone cable, the break in sound makes it harder to hear differences.
> 
> ...



With what tube and which headphone?   The '580s?

I ask as when I was switching back and forth with the Jot on my Eikon, there were not-at-all subtle differences in sound stage, tone, and detail.


On a different note, before starting into LISST testing, I had been listening to a cheap NOS tube and really liked it.  A great all-rounder, the Raytheon 6SN7gtb.  Great balance across the whole range.   

Edit - Compared to new production Tung-Sol, has more bass impact, slightly less bright treble, smoother mids.


----------



## Wes S

I can clearly tell between my Jot and Lyr 3, using my Z7's.  However my Z7's, sound so good on Lyr 3, that I have not even tried my HD600's yet.


----------



## MarkF786

ProfFalkin said:


> With what tube and which headphone?   The '580s?
> 
> I ask as when I was switching back and forth with the Jot on my Eikon, there were not-at-all subtle differences in sound stage, tone, and detail.



I’m running the Tung Sol tube and listening through the HD580. 

Later I’ll try it with my HD800S and Elear for variety.


----------



## ilikepooters

I can't stand all this waiting, i'm so impatient 

230v version not shipping until 1/5 gonna be nearly 4 weeks until i get my hands on it.

Ordered it with both LISST / Tung Sol and Multi bit DAC.

Still waiting for my HE-500's i won on ebay too.


Why is my letterbox always so empty? lol


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ilikepooters said:


> I can't stand all this waiting, i'm so impatient
> 
> 230v version not shipping until 1/5 gonna be nearly 4 weeks until i get my hands on it.
> 
> ...



A very sad tale, I know they are building them as fast as they can, I believe they are waiting on a part for the 230v.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Okay, here is the lineup, Tube Slueths, please feel free to chime in on the Valves and their sonic signatures.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Okay, here is the lineup, Tube Slueths, please feel free to chime in on the Valves and their sonic signatures.


My guesses:

First 2 will sound simiar - a little warm, slightly rolled treble.
3rd - no clue
4th - A little cleaner sound, more details up top.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Thanks Professor^ the Third was advertised as a “Bad Boy,” but not priced as such, with my limited knowledge, I don’t believe it is, so priced fairly.


----------



## winders

No Sylvania VT-231 tube is a "Bad Boy".


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Thanks Professor^ the Third was advertised as a “Bad Boy,” but not priced as such, with my limited knowledge, I don’t believe it is, so priced fairly.


The 3rd is missing the little spikes on the top mica, and I have no clue about that date code - which could be a production lot code? - so I don't know if it is a 1950 - 53 year run (all of which I believe are characteristics of real Bad Boy tubes), but it does have the copper grid posts Bay Boys should have. 

I'm not sure if it is or is not a bad boy.  I'm leaning toward no.  Not sure it matters if it sounds great.   =)   

Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## ProfFalkin

winders said:


> No Sylvania VT-231 tube is a "Bad Boy".


I had heard that too, then read on other sites that some were.   So, IDK.   Not sure I care anymore either, I just want a tube that sounds great and isn't $150 a pop.


----------



## MarkF786

I've been repeating the experiment with my HD800S and Elear.  Still, I can't hear any notable difference.

I started in the audiophile hobby in the 80s and was an avid reader of Stereophile magazine (though my system was modest at the time).  I fell for a lot of the audiophool stuff, thinking I could hear the difference when painting the edges of my CD with a green permanent marker or other audio hacks.  Now I see it for what it is; tricks of the mind.

I see a few possibilities to explain my inability to hear a difference between the Jot & Lyr while others can:

- I have a tin ear and can't discern small differences.
- Other people hear differences due to some cognitive bias (ie. they expect one amp to sound better than the other).
- There is a small difference that the highly trained ear can discern though many people can't.

I think the truth is "all of the above"; some people may hear a difference while I can't, though many people are probably falling for cognitive bias.




MarkF786 said:


> I used my multimeter to match the output of my Jotunheim and Lyr 3.  The Jot's knob needs to be rotated a little further to match the Lyr.  Before, when I was matching the knobs by eye, the Lyr sounded "better" because it was slightly louder.
> 
> Now when I switch between the two amps, I can't really say that I hear any difference.  I wish I had a mechanical switch to quickly change between the two, because with the second it takes to manually move the headphone cable, the break in sound makes it harder to hear differences.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wes S

Another possibility is the headphones used, but who cares it is all up to the listener and their enjoyment.


----------



## Wes S

I guess I have highly trained ears


----------



## Wes S

Or it is the tube you are using. . .


----------



## Wes S (Apr 7, 2018)

Mr. SPEAKERS -Dan Clark, can hear the difference, as he stated on the AFO thread.  If anybody has highly trained ears, it is him!  He said he preferred the Lyr 3, over the Jot, with the AFO's.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

winders said:


> No Sylvania VT-231 tube is a "Bad Boy".



Thanks, now just to have an amp to drop the Bad Boy into.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

MarkF786 said:


> I've been repeating the experiment with my HD800S and Elear.  Still, I can't hear any notable difference.
> 
> I started in the audiophile hobby in the 80s and was an avid reader of Stereophile magazine (though my system was modest at the time).  I fell for a lot of the audiophool stuff, thinking I could hear the difference when painting the edges of my CD with a green permanent marker or other audio hacks.  Now I see it for what it is; tricks of the mind.
> 
> ...



You are about my age (from the time we got into Audio, and the green magic on cds (they were so bad we were desperate for any improvement )), so a fourth option, dimenshed hearing on the top end were the Jot is reportedly “brighter”. I don’t know because I haven’t heard a Jot, or a Lyr 3.


----------



## bgbkt

ilikepooters said:


> I can't stand all this waiting, i'm so impatient
> 
> 230v version not shipping until 1/5 gonna be nearly 4 weeks until i get my hands on it.
> 
> ...



Is there any benefit going with 230v vs 115v?


----------



## ProfFalkin

bgbkt said:


> Is there any benefit going with 230v vs 115v?


Yes/no.  This is the voltage your nation's electrical grid provides.  So, if you are in the US, pick 115v.

DO NOT plug a 115V device into a 230V plug. 

This is especially true when using a 120v US hair dryer at a hotel in the UK at 4 AM.  I know this because my Ex knows this.  She had very nice hair at one point during that trip.  Not so much at other points.  (She got better.)


----------



## riffrafff

bgbkt said:


> Is there any benefit going with 230v vs 115v?



Yeah, as the Professor said, pick whatever your main/grid/AC voltage is.  There _is_ a an advantage of 230V, in terms of current  (power, basically, as it relates to the cost of electricity) used, but it's typically not up to the end-user (you) to decide.


----------



## dr cornelius

MarkF786 said:


> I used my multimeter to match the output of my Jotunheim and Lyr 3.  The Jot's knob needs to be rotated a little further to match the Lyr.  Before, when I was matching the knobs by eye, the Lyr sounded "better" because it was slightly louder.
> 
> Now when I switch between the two amps, I can't really say that I hear any difference.  I wish I had a mechanical switch to quickly change between the two, because with the second it takes to manually move the headphone cable, the break in sound makes it harder to hear differences.
> 
> ...



I’m not surprised you couldn’t hear a difference with the amps level matched... With a multimeter is the way to A/B.


----------



## ilikepooters

Been doing some reading, Schiit basically say 6DJ8 tube types will work with an adaptor because the plate voltage isn't much different from Lyr or Lyr 2, i'm going to speculate, that, if different it's an increase in voltage.

Meaning the 6N1P Voskhods might be worth rolling.

Anyone know how to understand those curvy plate voltage tube graph thingies?

Even better, anyone tried adaptors yet for 6DJ8 family or even 6N1P and how do they sound?


----------



## Karlmalone1 (Apr 7, 2018)

So i've had the Lyr 3 with Tung Sol tube now for about a week, and in a nutshell I adore it.  In comparison to my Liquid Carbon X, it just seems more natural across the board, which I assume is partly related to the tube part? (first time trying out tubes).  The Lyr has this great sense of 3D realism that outshines the Carbon X (perhaps not so much in width, but just in general feeling of immersion).

Impactful bass, treble isn't harsh in any fashion to my eyes, and the midrange has this natural and seductive way about that it that has had me hooked to my headphones for hours on end.

I have zero complaints in any category, and it's good enough that I have given up searching for new amps and will instead upgrade my headphones down the line.


----------



## bcowen

Lyr 3 Initial thoughts:  Got it set up in the system Thursday evening. Stuck in an unused Hytron 6SN7 GT in to get the ball rolling. Let it play until I got home yesterday evening.  For some reason Tidal glitched, and nothing was playing when I got home.  The Lyr was still on, just no music playing through it, and I really don't know when the glitch happened.  Gave it a brief listen last night.  Some really nice things happening with harmonic detail and layering of instruments, fade time, etc.  But it was eating on my ears...that fatigue thing.  Also noticed a low level buzz that started at about half volume on high gain with no music playing. Increased gradually as the volume was increased, but curiously went completely silent at the last 20 or so degrees of the volume pot travel (to the full clockwise stop).  Same thing in low gain, just not as loud.  Bummer.  My Vali 2 has been dead silent, except for one particular tube.  Obviously a tube issue, not the amp.  So, I let the Lyr play all night, and no glitches with Tidal this time.  Gave it another listen early this afternoon, and.....hum gone.  Dead silent at any volume in both low and high gain.  Hooray!  I hate noise.  And even better, the fatigue is gone.  I was crankin' stuff loud as my ears could stand it, and none of that initial tickle/irritation that's indicative (to me) that the ears will be hurtin' in short order.  Awesome.  The harmonic detail has developed even further, and the decay of notes is becoming, well, noteworthy.  Bass is still a bit reticent, and I'm missing dynamics.  Smooth and easy top end, but kinda boring sounding without the macrodynamic contrasts.  Indicative of more break-in needed?  I think so.  Could easily be the Hytron tube too.  So at this point, I'll let it play again all night tonight, and see what's changed in the morning.  It keeps getting better, so I think I'm going to be very happy with it.  

Meanwhile, the poor Vali has been demoted to tube break-in duties.  Ken-Rad cooking now...


----------



## chef8489

YOu should check out these tubes. I have two and they are great with my Vali 2. Probably some of my favorite octal tubes I have with my vali. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222907630518?ViewItem=&item=222907630518


----------



## ilikepooters

Boredom really burns a hole in my wallet.

Spotted an RCA 5692 on ebay and appears to be the one and only 5692 on sale in the UK, quick google and they seem to be good so i grabbed it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RCA-5692...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I'll probably regret paying that much, i'll feel the buyers remorse tomorrow lol


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> YOu should check out these tubes. I have two and they are great with my Vali 2. Probably some of my favorite octal tubes I have with my vali. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222907630518?ViewItem=&item=222907630518



Good to know!  I ordered some a couple weeks ago based on my positive experience with the '50's Foton 6N3P in the Vali.  The package hasn't arrived yet, but expecting it any day now.


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> Good to know!  I ordered some a couple weeks ago based on my positive experience with the '50's Foton 6N3P in the Vali.  The package hasn't arrived yet, but expecting it any day now.


I have not tried the Foton 6n3p just the Reflektor 6n3p. How did you like the Foton? I love the Reflector. The Reflektor is probably my all time favorite tube. Maybe if you have extra of the Foton we can swap a Reflektor for a Foton.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> I have not tried the Foton 6n3p just the Reflektor 6n3p. How did you like the Foton? I love the Reflector. The Reflektor is probably my all time favorite tube. Maybe if you have extra of the Foton we can swap a Reflektor for a Foton.



PM sent.


----------



## roshambo

Listened at Canjam today and Lyr 3 with multibit is a pretty damn great. Paired extremely well with my HD800. Highs were not fatiguing, nice clear mids with tube goodness, good bottom end, and moreover, it just comes together. Plain amazing sounding for the money. My MJ2 still has more power and slams harder, but man, if you gave me the choice between it and Lyr 3, it's a hard call.


----------



## ProfFalkin

roshambo said:


> Listened at Canjam today and Lyr 3 with multibit is a pretty damn great. Paired extremely well with my HD800. Highs were not fatiguing, nice clear mids with tube goodness, good bottom end, and moreover, it just comes together. Plain amazing sounding for the money. My MJ2 still has more power and slams harder, but man, if you gave me the choice between it and Lyr 3, it's a hard call.


Now take the Lyr 3, double it - aka, make it fully hardware balanced - and call it MJ3.

I would buy one.


----------



## roshambo

ProfFalkin said:


> Now take the Lyr 3, double it - aka, make it fully hardware balanced - and call it MJ3.
> 
> I would buy one.



Driving home on the 105 freeway I had this exact thought. Or perhaps Tubenarok?


----------



## junki

roshambo said:


> Listened at Canjam today and Lyr 3 with multibit is a pretty damn great. Paired extremely well with my HD800. Highs were not fatiguing, nice clear mids with tube goodness, good bottom end, and moreover, it just comes together. Plain amazing sounding for the money. My MJ2 still has more power and slams harder, but man, if you gave me the choice between it and Lyr 3, it's a hard call.


What was the tube in the Lyr 3 unit?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 8, 2018)

Ok, here is my general breakdown of the Schiit tubes for the Lyr 3.

LISST -
Pro: Tonally pretty flat and neutral.  Sounds the same regardless of gain setting.  It sounds good, honestly.  A good reference point to compare with other tubes.
Cons: Lacks sound stage.  (A lot of sound stage.) Has a veil to it I can't quite describe.  The bite and impact you get with the other two is lacking.  Honestly, save the $50 for some good NOS tubes.

New production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB -
Pros: Lots of bite and impact.  On high gain, sounds brighter.  Plenty of bass.  On low gain, its less U shaped, more natural sounding.  Good sound stage.  Very good detail.  One of my favorite tubes so far.
Cons: Might be too bright for alreay bright systems/headphones.  Slight mid suck-out.  (Or it might just seem that way with the intense bass and elevated treble.)

NOS Russian 6N8S -
Pros: Most natural sounding of the bunch, with great detail and attack, without being overly bright. Bass impactful and controlled, doesn't stomp over the mids.  My favorite of the bunch.  Staging is very good, but not as holographic as other NOS tubes I've tried.
Cons: Not many.  On low gain it sounds a bit soft.  On high gain it gains a more attack and control.

If I were buying the Lyr 3 today, knowing what I know now, I would buy it with the Tung-Sol tube and add the NOS Russian tube to the order for the extra $8.  You'll have two great starting points.

There are quite a few tubes I've rolled through this already, and these 2 stock tubes are still in my top 5 best sounding picks.  (The 6N8S is #2, and new prod TS #5.)

The current favorite is the Raytheon I posted a few pages back.

Chain = PC / Jriver MC -> Mimby -> Lyr3 -> ZMF Eikon.
Music is a jumble of Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, Prog Rock, and EDM ripped to WAV or Flac and fed to Mimby via WASAPI direct.

Enjoy!


----------



## bcowen

roshambo said:


> Driving home on the 105 freeway I had this exact thought. Or perhaps Tubenarok?



LOL!!!


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> Ok, here is my general breakdown of the Schiit tubes for the Lyr 3.
> 
> LISST -
> Pro: Tonally pretty flat and neutral.  Sounds the same regardless of gain setting.  It sounds good, honestly.  A good reference point to compare with other tubes.
> ...



Thanks for that!  I'm just starting my evaluation of the 2nd tube in the Lyr (Ken-Rad), and the only tube in my possession I _didn't _have in the future lineup was the stock Russian tube.  Guess I just assumed it would suck (as most "stock" tubes do).  I'll put it in the lineup now.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 8, 2018)

I totally agree, with ProfFalkin’s description of the 2 tubes offered by Schiit.  The Russian NOS, is a great place to start, and I could be happy with that 1 tube.  However, my favorite, at the moment is the 1940’s RCA VT231 grey glass.  I like warmth and the RCA, has it.  I had been listening with a KenRad VT231 staggered plates, and it is very resolving/impactful top to bottom and a little bright up top, which can cause a bit of fatigue, with longer sessions.  For short critical listening sessions, or at lower volumes, the KenRad is king, but if I want to rock out, for a long listening session for fun, the RCA grey glass 1940’s is my pick.


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> There are quite a few tubes I've rolled through this already, and these 2 stock tubes are still in my top 5 best sounding picks. (The 6N8S is #2, and new prod TS #5.)


What are the other 3 in your top 5 ?


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Seriously contemplating purchase of a Lyr3 Multibit.
Any opinions how it would sound with my HD650 and HD800 cans?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> What are the other 3 in your top 5 ?


Sylvania chrome dome (3) and the Ken Rad black glass (4).  

Remind me to post pics tomorrow for specifics.


----------



## chef8489

Ron Sherwood said:


> Seriously contemplating purchase of a Lyr3 Multibit.
> Any opinions how it would sound with my HD650 and HD800 cans?


If it sounds as good or better than the Vali 2 then it would be great with those. I know the hd650 did well with my Vali 2 but will wait for someone with the Lyr 3 to comment.


----------



## junki

Does anyone have any nuanced, careful comparisons between the Lyr 3 and the MCTH? My experience with the latter is that the MCTH is a bit picky with headphone pairings, so it sounds brain**** amazing through the HD650, but sounds just kinda weird in a bad way through the Sundara.

Would love to hear how the Lyr 3 and the MCTH compare in terms of sound characteristics.


----------



## johnnyboy101

So - I currently have a Jot with the phono card fed by my Uturn Turntable, and also SE input from a Fulla 2 which is pulling double duty as both my pc desktop amp and as a DAC for the Jot (that little doodad is so darn versatile!)  Would like to get into the to the tube game... am having trouble deciding between the Valhalla 2 and the Lyr 3.  I should mention that my 2 sets of cans are a Grado 325e and AKG K701.  I'm a fan of the single tube for the Lyr 3, but I likely wouldn't get an add on card.  Is the performance of the Lyr 3 that much better than Valhalla 2, if the add on capability is not considered?


----------



## bcowen

Chapter 2:  another 24 hours of break-in, and an overall improvement in sound.  But the dynamics still weren't there.  Yanked out the Hytron 6SN7GT, and since the next tube in line (CBS/Hytron 5692) had already accumulated a lot of hours in the Vali, I figured I'd warm it up and give it a whirl.  Same glorious midrange, same friendly treble, same plumpness (at the expense of definition) in the bass, and.....same challenge dynamically.  Huh?  This was one of my favorite tubes (out of 20 or so rolled) in the Vali, and I certainly didn't notice any lack of dynamics there. Since I had about 24 hours of burn on the next contender (a Ken-Rad JAN-CKR 6SN7GT), and with a bit of consternation developing, I popped it in the Lyr.....and ended up with a great big smile.  There be dynamics!  And lots of other good things.  Lots.  Not quite the bestowed by the gods midrange of the 5692, but not far from it. Bass is more linear and accurate, with nice definition and punch.  Treble is just a touch on the hot side, but _just_ a touch, and really only noticeable on a couple songs.  May calm down further with more play time.

Quite honestly my enthusiasm for the Lyr had been pretty reserved up to this point.  I mean it was better in some ways than the Vali, but especially with the dynamic issue I was hearing it had just failed to blow my socks off.  Now my socks are on the other side of the room and my feet are cold. So is the Ken-Rad the "it" tube?  Well, I'm way too much of a rolling addict to ever make that kind of statement.     I'll just say at this point that the Ken-Rad solved the problem (the tube) and let the Lyr show what it's made of, which is some pretty good stuff.  Still have a lot more to try...a Raytheon VT-231 is up next.


----------



## winders

Yeah, I am not surprised about the Hytron tubes. I tried them in a Frey and was not at all impressed. The Ken-Rad is a great tube but the Raytheon VT-231should beat it. Maybe not as much bass slam but the mid-range and upper end should be superior. I like the soundstage presentation better too.

I won't know anything for sure until I get my Lyr 3.


----------



## bcowen

winders said:


> Yeah, I am not surprised about the Hytron tubes. I tried them in a Frey and was not at all impressed. The Ken-Rad is a great tube but the Raytheon VT-231should beat it. Maybe not as much bass slam but the mid-range and upper end should be superior. I like the soundstage presentation better too.
> 
> I won't know anything for sure until I get my Lyr 3.



I was a bit surprised that the 5692 was one of my tubes of choice in the Vali, but fell flat in the Lyr.  Oh well.  I guess that's why we roll.   

Have some 50's Fotons that should be here shortly, and found some metal base Melz factory tubes for a decent price today and ordered a couple.  Mixed comments on those, but I figured at $25 a tube I'd take a gamble.  Just hope they get here before Trump and Putin decide to start playing army.


----------



## ScareDe2

Is there any comparison between the Lyr 2 and Lyr 3? What does the Lyr 3 exactly gives as an improvement, sonically speaking?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 9, 2018)

junki said:


> Does anyone have any nuanced, careful comparisons between the Lyr 3 and the MCTH? My experience with the latter is that the MCTH is a bit picky with headphone pairings, so it sounds brain**** amazing through the HD650, but sounds just kinda weird in a bad way through the Sundara.
> 
> Would love to hear how the Lyr 3 and the MCTH compare in terms of sound characteristics.



This might help.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/att...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-383#post-14160285

@heliosphann might be able to shed more light on your interest between the two.  I trust his ears.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 9, 2018)

Zachik said:


> What are the other 3 in your top 5 ?





ProfFalkin said:


> Sylvania chrome dome (3) and the Ken Rad black glass (4).
> 
> Remind me to post pics tomorrow for specifics.



As promised.   From Top to bottom.
1)  Raytheon 6SN7GTB flat black plates, round mica, top getter.
2) Stock NOS Russian 6H8C
3) Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 6SN7GTB angled black T plates, round mica, foil getter.
4) KenRad VT-231 black glass, bottom getter
5) NP TungSol 6SN7GTB from Schiit
6) KenRad VT-231, angled black plates, bottom getter
7) RCA Grey Glass VT-231

Top two:
Westinghouse 6SN7GTB flat black plate, top horseshoe getter (breaking in now)
TungSol 6SN7GTB, angled T plates, top horseshoe getter






So, like I said, my top 3 tubes can all be had for less than $25 each.

The insanely expensive KenRad black glass was $300 for a pair.  The RCA grey glass was about $100 a pop.  Both are really rolled up top and syrupy, with the KenRad beating the RCA due to less syrupyness in mids and bass, and a less rolled treble.

** I really can't recommend the RCA unless you *really* need to control a bright system.   The Sylvania chrome dome is nice and balanced, if a bit soft overall.   The KenRad in #6 position was just too bright for my Eikons, but might be good to bring detail to a dark headphone.

** Also, I made a playlist on GPM of the music I use to evaluate these.  (Mine are .wav rips played through JRMC though.)   It might provide some perspective on what I like musically, which weighs heavily into how I like my tubes to sound.

** Edited to add content as I was in a rush to get to a meeting when originally posted.


----------



## Scott Kramer

Oh my, are those for a lyr or are you firing up your ENIAC to compute missile ballistics tables?


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> As promised.   From Top to bottom.
> 1)  Raytheon 6SN7GTB flat black plates, round mica, top getter.
> 2) Stock NOS Russian 6H8C
> 3) Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 6SN7GTB angled black T plates, round mica, foil getter.
> ...


WOW - very very useful. Thanks!!
As soon as I get my Lyr3 (trying to sell my Jot, first, or trade it + cash for a Lyr3) - I will look up those top 3 tubes.
Is #2 (Stock NOS Russian 6H8C) the one that comes with the Lyr3 by default? Is that what you mean by "Stock"?
How do #1 and #3 compare to it (to #2) sonically?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Scott Kramer said:


> Oh my, are those for a lyr or are you firing up your ENIAC to compute missile ballistics tables?


First rule of Nuke Club is you don't talk about Nuke Club.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 9, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Is #2 (Stock NOS Russian 6H8C) the one that comes with the Lyr3 by default? Is that what you mean by "Stock"?
> How do #1 and #3 compare to it (to #2) sonically?


Yes, that is the default tube Schiit provides.

#1 sounds like the stock tube, but with more presence.  It seems like a tonally richer sounding stock tube.  Plenty of detail, impact, and extension throughout. It's just very engaging.

#3 is just a smooth operator.   It does everything well, but doesn't shine up top as well as # 1 or 2.

#4 isn't going to win any awards for value, but if you want a very warm gooey sound, it does it very well.  Works well with the EDM I listen to, especially on tracks like Lights by Bassnectar where there is lots of treble information (female singer, snares and clashes, lots of high pitched synth) being pumped into your skull that would otherwise get fatiguing.   Not all that good for Jazz or Classical where you want detail up top.

#5 is a U turn from #4.   I like to run on low gain.  Doing so seems to take the edge off up the upper range and tames the lower ranges a bit, but otherwise that is where this tube shines.  It's kind of U shaped, which might work well on headphones like the Eikon, but I can see it being a bit much on a Emu Teak / THX00.  This is the tube I ordered with the Lyr 3, and it's the first one I broke in and really got used to first.

Edited post above to add playlist.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Okay, the Bluegrass Lyr 3 has landed, the Unit was as cold as a brick, so warming up. Though, having zero self control, I started listening at 00:30 with the Abyss. First, the power is intoxicating, warmed up with a relatively gentle Jason Isbell, but soon succumbed and threw on some Beastie Boys, now my head is being massaged. 

Beyond the ass kicking bass, picked up a little hardness in the upper midrange, though that may just be the need to burn in a bit. I’ll give it a day or two, then start playing with tubes.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Okay, the Bluegrass Lyr 3 has landed, the Unit was as cold as a brick, so warming up. Though, having zero self control, I started listening at 00:30 with the Abyss. First, the power is intoxicating, warmed up with a relatively gentle Jason Isbell, but soon succumbed and threw on some Beastie Boys, now my head is being massaged.
> 
> Beyond the ass kicking bass, picked up a little hardness in the upper midrange, though that may just be the need to burn in a bit. I’ll give it a day or two, then start playing with tubes.


I've heard (but am not advocating this) that you can put the amp in the oven at 125 deg F for 20 min to warm up your gear.    If you are the impatient type, I think you can cut the time down quite a bit.   10 min at 250 deg, or perhaps 5 min at 500 deg.   Shoot, go for gold...  2.5 min at 1000 deg.

This is fine.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> I've heard (but am not advocating this) that you can put the amp in the oven at 125 deg F for 20 min to warm up your gear.    If you are the impatient type, I think you can cut the time down quite a bit.   10 min at 250 deg, or perhaps 5 min at 500 deg.   Shoot, go for gold...  2.5 min at 1000 deg.
> 
> This is fine.


----------



## EagleWings (Apr 9, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I've heard (but am not advocating this) that you can put the amp in the oven at 125 deg F for 20 min to warm up your gear.    If you are the impatient type, I think you can cut the time down quite a bit.   10 min at 250 deg, or perhaps 5 min at 500 deg.   Shoot, go for gold...  2.5 min at 1000 deg.
> 
> This is fine.



Lol. I don't even want to know, what field you are a professor in.


----------



## JohnBal

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Okay, the Bluegrass Lyr 3 has landed, the Unit was as cold as a brick, so warming up. Though, having zero self control, I started listening at 00:30 with the Abyss. First, the power is intoxicating, warmed up with a relatively gentle Jason Isbell, but soon succumbed and threw on some Beastie Boys, now my head is being massaged.
> 
> Beyond the ass kicking bass, picked up a little hardness in the upper midrange, though that may just be the need to burn in a bit. I’ll give it a day or two, then start playing with tubes.


Which tube did you have it shipped with? Mine is due to arrive by this weekend and I ordered it with the cheap Russian tube. Might be a good thing though as it's getting good reviews! I also have tons of different tubes to try it with. The wait is killing me...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

JohnBal said:


> Which tube did you have it shipped with? Mine is due to arrive by this weekend and I ordered it with the cheap Russian tube. Might be a good thing though as it's getting good reviews! I also have tons of different tubes to try it with. The wait is killing me...




Mine came with the TS, just ordered a pair of rubber tipped surgical forceps to facilitate the removal off hot tubes. Based on the good Professors recommendations, I’ll begin rolling with the Sylvania “Bad Boy.”


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 9, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> Lol. I don't even want to know, what field you are a professor in.



Unethical and Irrational Sciences.  (Mad Scientist) 

I try to create real women on my computer.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Posted the following on the Abyss 1266 Thread, waiting for the incoming!

“Well, damn, my self control crumbled like a stale cookie. Threw the Sylvania “Bad Boy” in and cued up Barbirroli, BPO recording of Mahler’s 9th (the 19th Century’s versión of the Beastie Boys), with the Abyss 1266 and was rewarded with the biggest head-stage I’ve ever heard, depth, tone, very beautiful, and neither the Tube, nor amp is broken in yet!

I know w the Boys and Girls on the Abyss Thread are going to mock me, but if you have champagne taste on a beer budget, I’ll take my Lyr 3 over your Wells and GSX’s.”


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Posted the following on the Abyss 1266 Thread, waiting for the incoming!
> 
> “Well, damn, my self control crumbled like a stale cookie. Threw the Sylvania “Bad Boy” in and cued up Barbirroli, BPO recording of Mahler’s 9th (the 19th Century’s versión of the Beastie Boys), with the Abyss 1266 and was rewarded with the biggest head-stage I’ve ever heard, depth, tone, very beautiful, and neither the Tube, nor amp is broken in yet!
> 
> I know w the Boys and Girls on the Abyss Thread are going to mock me, but if you have champagne taste on a beer budget, I’ll take my Lyr 3 over your Wells and GSX’s.”


Enjoy your crucifixion.  LOL


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> Enjoy your crucifixion.  LOL



Should be interesting, though it will be mild compared to what I’d get on SABF, though Marv thinks it’s a great combination as well.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Should be interesting, though it will be mild compared to what I’d get on SABF, though Marv thinks it’s a great combination as well.


Oops, you named The Site That Shall Not Be Named.   Prepare yourself for censorship.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

So....I have a question..

For my desktop system: Am I better going with a Lyr3 Multibit or going with a Valhalla2 + Bifrost Multbit combo?  Sound quality through my HD800 and HD650 are my biggest concern.

Price is a little higher with the combo, however I get the flexibility of addition digital inputs (ie. could replace the DAC in my main system if there was ever a problem with it)

What say you?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 9, 2018)

Ron Sherwood said:


> So....I have a question..
> 
> For my desktop system: Am I better going with a Lyr3 Multibit or going with a Valhalla2 + Bifrost Multbit combo?  Sound quality through my HD800 and HD650 are my biggest concern.
> 
> ...


Lyr 3 + Mimby.

Or - and this may be unpopular - the Bifrost 4490.   It's actually a pretty solid sounding DAC.  _You get Gen5 usb, matching chassis size, and better laid out 4490 implementation.** _ I know most people have it hard-wired in their brains to go multibit, and for the HD800 I would strongly consider it.

With that said, I've never been enamored by the Bimby vs Mimby especially for the price vs performance difference.   Having had both at the same time, I'd be damned if I could suggest a $600 DAC vs a $250 one just to get the "next level" multibit or to get a stackable chassis.

I ordered my Lyr 3 with the internal multibit card, and directly compared it to the Mimby.   Mimby gives you better sound stage and better input options.  You can keep it powered on all the time too, which MB needs to sound uniform.  (It has a warm up time before sound stabilizes.) For the extra $50, it's a no brainer.

Also, and don't take this wrong, but it seems like you should do more homework.   The Lyr 3 vs Valhalla 2 are completely different sounding amps.  You should decide which will provide a better sound synergy with your headphones, not buy one amp or the other based on price and/or size.

Disclaimer - I've heard the Valhalla 2 quite a few times, but have never owned it.  Same thing with the HD800.

My money would be on the Lyr 3 given my experience with both of those amps.

Just my 2 cents.

** Edits in italics.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> Lyr 3 + Mimby.
> 
> Or - and this may be unpopular - the Bifrost 4490.   It's actually a pretty solid sounding DAC.  I know most people have it hard-wired in their brains to go multibit, and for the HD800 I would strongly consider it.
> 
> ...




Seconded, with my 2 cents, had a Valhalla (plus the Lyr 1& 2) with the 800 and 650, the Lyr 3 is Schiit’s best amp to date (caveat, I’ve only listened to the Rag at meets and I’ve never heard the Jot).


----------



## Ron Sherwood (Apr 9, 2018)

excellent advice, thank you.

Also, if i did get the Bifrost 4490, I believe I can always add the Multibit card later.

Looks like the 4490 and Lyr3 could be viable options.

Still like the idea of a one box solution and the Lyr3 Multi is cost effective and may be  best for the HD800 cans.


----------



## Zachik

EagleWings said:


> Lol. I don't even want to know, what field you are a professor in.


Thermodynamics?!


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> Lyr 3 + Mimby.
> 
> Or - and this may be unpopular - the Bifrost 4490.   It's actually a pretty solid sounding DAC.  _You get Gen5 usb, matching chassis size, and better laid out 4490 implementation.** _ I know most people have it hard-wired in their brains to go multibit, and for the HD800 I would strongly consider it.
> 
> ...



Isn’t the multibit card powered always since it’s usb only?(granted your pc is powered on)...or does it use separate power within the lyr3?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> Isn’t the multibit card powered always since it’s usb only?(granted your pc is powered on)...or does it use separate power within the lyr3?


I've heard both, but I believe it has separate internal power from the amp.  The USB section might derive it's power from the usb bus, but i don't think the DAC itself does.  Not 100% on this, so don't quote me.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I’ll shoot schiit a message n see what they say, was really hoping it stayed on aslong as usb was working, mines scheduled to be here tomorrow.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Motocrossman24 said:


> I’ll shoot schiit a message n see what they say, was really hoping it stayed on aslong as usb was working, mines scheduled to be here tomorrow.


 
I would be very interested in your impressions upon receipt.


----------



## winders

Even if the USB section gets its power from the +5vdc USB pin, the multibit DAC would get its power from the the power section of the amp. So no, the multibit DAC is not always getting power if it is plugged into USB. It will be cold when turned on.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Ron Sherwood said:


> I would be very interested in your impressions upon receipt.



Will do, received my Sylvania chrome domes, Sylvania bad boys, mouse ear Tung Sol and 50s side getter rca’s today to try in it, sucks getting all the accessories b4 the toy lol


----------



## disastermouse (Apr 10, 2018)

I purchased my Bimby RIGHT before (maybe a month or two) before Mimby came out. Do I have USB 5?

Right now, I'm running Bimby to Wyrd to a Garage 1217 Polaris. I used to have a Chameleon for my HE-500, but it broke.

How big a step up is Lyr3 over Polaris?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Update on the Sylvania “Bad Boy,” it’s clean, clear, and accurate, while remaining true to tone and timbres. Want to hear things deep in the mix that you never have before, but not be assaulted by etched highs, this is your Tube.


----------



## quimbo

How do you store tubes when they don't come in a box?  I now have 4 tubes with at least 3, maybe 5 on the way


----------



## Wes S

You can buy generic white boxes.


----------



## quimbo

Found this post - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tube-storage.616926/#post_8510917


----------



## Motocrossman24

Just grab a 1/2”-1” thick sheet of foam n stick the pins into it


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> You can buy generic white boxes.



Agree.  They're cheap enough.  Just one (of many) sources below:

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/tube_accessories?filters=Type=Boxes


----------



## quimbo

Got to have the WAF


bcowen said:


> Agree.  They're cheap enough.  Just one (of many) sources below:
> 
> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/tube_accessories?filters=Type=Boxes



Thank you for that, I just purchased and received a Socket Saver from them last week.  The white leave plenty of room for notes


----------



## Motocrossman24

Well schiit screwed up, I ordered the lyr3 multibit with Tung-Sol and lisst tube aswell as a usb cable from them and they send it w no usb cable and no lisst tube.


----------



## Wes S

Sorry to hear that.  I know they will make it right, but the wait continues.  I would push for expedited shipping, with the items left out.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 10, 2018)

So, i have stopped tube rolling, and have settled on the RCA VT-231 grey glass, as my number 1.  I love the warmth in the midrange, and wide soundstage, and strong bass.  This tube has the most natural sounding tone, and the highs are just right.  The weight of the notes, really makes the music sound real, and reminds of my favorite 2c51, the WE396A.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Yea I’d assume they’ll be fine to work with but just sucks, will go to Walmart tonight to grab a cheap usb cable for the mean time.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Wes S said:


> So, i have stopped tube rolling, and have settled on the RCA VT-231 grey glass, as my number 1.  I love the warmth in the midrange, and wide soundstage, and strong bass.  This tube has the most natural sounding tone, and the highs are just right.  The weight of the notes, really makes the music sound real, and reminds of my favorite 2c51, the WE396A.



I ordered the rca grey glass and a bad boy plate style Sylvania 6sn7w last night too, found some rlly nice deals on eBay, looked through like 50 pages of tubes to find them lol


----------



## Wes S

A bonus with the RCA grey glass tube, is that it looks awesome in the Lyr 3, because the grey tube matches the Schiit logos and looks like it was made for the amp.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Wow, schiit litterally responded to me with a tracking number for the missing parts an hour after I emailed them...definitely top notch service


----------



## Wes S

Motocrossman24 said:


> I ordered the rca grey glass and a bad boy plate style Sylvania 6sn7w last night too, found some rlly nice deals on eBay, looked through like 50 pages of tubes to find them lol


Nice!  I have already built up a stock pile of RCA VT-231's.  I have 5 (NOS) and 5 (used/tested high), so I am good for a long time.  That is how much I like this tube, in the Lyr 3.


----------



## Zachik

Motocrossman24 said:


> I ordered the rca grey glass and a bad boy plate style Sylvania 6sn7w last night too, found some rlly nice deals on eBay, looked through like 50 pages of tubes to find them lol


Would would be a good price for those? Curious what is considered "really nice deal"...



Wes S said:


> A bonus with the RCA grey glass tube, is that it looks awesome in the Lyr 3, because the grey tube matches the Schiit logos and looks like it was made for the amp.


How can you write that, and not post a photo along with it?!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> Would would be a good price for those? Curious what is considered "really nice deal"...
> 
> 
> How can you write that, and not post a photo along with it?!


I don't think I've seen a single NOS Sylvania gray glass for under $90.  Mine were NOS, matched, and intended for use in my IHA-1... at $225 for the pair.  Might find some used for less.


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> I don't think I've seen a single NOS Sylvania gray glass for under $90.  Mine were NOS, matched, and intended for use in my IHA-1... at $225 for the pair.  Might find some used for less.


Ouch. I knew tube rolling is an expensive venture... Thank god the Lyr3 uses 1 tube, and no need for matched pairs


----------



## Motocrossman24

Zachik said:


> Would would be a good price for those? Curious what is considered "really nice deal"...
> 
> 
> How can you write that, and not post a photo along with it?!



I won a bid for one that tested nos for 37$, online retailers Iv seen selling them between 70-150, eBay used ones Iv seen from 40-60 nos from 60-200$ sets, kinda hard to go by eBay pricing, people charge what they want not what they’re worth. I believe Brent Jesse has a few in stock at audiotubes.com and his prices are reasonable.


----------



## Motocrossman24

The biggest issue is they’re usually sold in pairs on eBay, the one I bought tested 2500/2550 so depending who you talk to it’s not nos, but nos gives +- 5% from the 2600 spec so they’re like 99%. I think Brent sells rca labeled grey glass for 90each and relabeled for 60 but still made by rca.


----------



## Zachik

Motocrossman24 said:


> I won a bid for one that tested nos for 37$, online retailers Iv seen selling them between 70-150, eBay used ones Iv seen from 40-60 nos from 60-200$ sets, kinda hard to go by eBay pricing, people charge what they want not what they’re worth. I believe Brent Jesse has a few in stock at audiotubes.com and his prices are reasonable.





Motocrossman24 said:


> The biggest issue is they’re usually sold in pairs on eBay, the one I bought tested 2500/2550 so depending who you talk to it’s not nos, but nos gives +- 5% from the 2600 spec so they’re like 99%. I think Brent sells rca labeled grey glass for 90each and relabeled for 60 but still made by rca.



Thanks for the info!!
Please post some impressions, especially those vs. whatever tubes you got with the amp, once you get them and listen some.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Nvm audiotubes.com sells the rca grey glass for 49$ and has a few singles in stock if anyone’s looking...most my tubes cane from him, deff a legit seller.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> So, i have stopped tube rolling, and have settled on the RCA VT-231 grey glass, as my number 1.  I love the warmth in the midrange, and wide soundstage, and strong bass.  This tube has the most natural sounding tone, and the highs are just right.  The weight of the notes, really makes the music sound real, and reminds of my favorite 2c51, the WE396A.



Good to know.  Thanks!  Don't have any of those, wouldn't 'ya know.  I'm interested to see how the Fotons and Melz work out...if no go, I'll be looking for some RCA's.


----------



## eagerears

Motocrossman24 said:


> Well schiit screwed up, I ordered the lyr3 multibit with Tung-Sol and lisst tube aswell as a usb cable from them and they send it w no usb cable and no lisst tube.


Same thing happened to me with the PYST cables and LISST I wanted. They sent just the Lyr, then when I asked for the rest they sent me a pair of novals rather than an octal LISST. I finally got the correct LISST yesterday.


----------



## Motocrossman24

eagerears said:


> Same thing happened to me with the PYST cables and LISST I wanted. They sent just the Lyr, then when I asked for the rest they sent me a pair of novals rather than an octal LISST. I finally got the correct LISST yesterday.



I’m sure they’re getting killed on orders, atleast in my case they took care of it impressively fast...hopefully the right stuff was sent out though.


----------



## eschell27 (Apr 10, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Mine came with the TS, just ordered a pair of rubber tipped surgical forceps to facilitate the removal off hot tubes. Based on the good Professors recommendations, I’ll begin rolling with the Sylvania “Bad Boy.”



Winders was saying that the tube is not considered a bad boy... here is a pic of one...








The Sylvania VT-231 is a nice tube and a lot of people really enjoy them, though it cannot be considered a bad boy... the real bad boy's were only made for a year or two i believe ('52 - '53 ?) have the black base green labeling and black plates with 3 holes in them. Winders knows more about them than i do, please correct anything i have wrong and add any other pertinent info...


----------



## Motocrossman24

eschell27 said:


> Winders was saying that the tube is not considered a bad boy... here is a pic of one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bad boys were made from 51-53 and there were 2 and 3 hole versions of them depending who you ask...the term bad boy was just made by a guy trying to sell tubes and make them worth more $...according to some trusted sources the 2 and 3 hole versions sound the exact same. And they used the same build/plates in the 6sn7w and vt231 in the same generation just short bottle rather then medium. I’ll let you know my personal feelings whether they sound the same as I have both 2 and 3 hole bad boys as well as a 3 hole”bad boy” era 6sn7w to run in the lyr3.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I know this is a bit off topic, but what’s the best way to connect an iPhone 8+ to the dac section of the lyr3? I was thinking just usb hub and plug my iPhone cable into it, but not sure if there’s a better way, can’t seem to find any lightning to usb type b connectors besides the “iconnectivity cable” which has some weird block thing in between the cable which makes me think it’s only compatible with the iconnectivity device, plus it’s 40$.


----------



## roshambo

For people that own/have heard Lyr 3 Multibit, would you agree with the statement it is Schiit's most euphonic amp?


Motocrossman24 said:


> I know this is a bit off topic, but what’s the best way to connect an iPhone 8+ to the dac section of the lyr3? I was thinking just usb hub and plug my iPhone cable into it, but not sure if there’s a better way, can’t seem to find any lightning to usb type b connectors besides the “iconnectivity cable” which has some weird block thing in between the cable which makes me think it’s only compatible with the iconnectivity device, plus it’s 40$.



I use this with my iPhone 8 and mimby. Works great.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter


----------



## Motocrossman24

roshambo said:


> For people that own/have heard Lyr 3 Multibit, would you agree with the statement it is Schiit's most euphonic amp?
> 
> 
> I use this with my iPhone 8 and mimby. Works great.
> ...



TYVM, just what I’m looking for


----------



## Wildcatsare1

eschell27 said:


> Winders was saying that the tube is not considered a bad boy... here is a pic of one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification, Winder would know. Regardless, I’m enjoying the Sylvania, Lyr 3, and Abyss immensely!


----------



## EagleWings

Motocrossman24 said:


> I know this is a bit off topic, but what’s the best way to connect an iPhone 8+ to the dac section of the lyr3? I was thinking just usb hub and plug my iPhone cable into it, but not sure if there’s a better way, can’t seem to find any lightning to usb type b connectors besides the “iconnectivity cable” which has some weird block thing in between the cable which makes me think it’s only compatible with the iconnectivity device, plus it’s 40$.



Unfortunately there’s no way around it. You definitely need the CCK cable.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 10, 2018)

roshambo said:


> For people that own/have heard Lyr 3 Multibit, would you agree with the statement it is Schiit's most euphonic amp?


*euphonic*
[yoo-fon-ik]
*adjective*

pertaining to or characterized by euphony
*euphony*
[yoo-fuh-nee]
*noun, plural eu·pho·nies.*

agreeableness of sound; pleasing effect to the ear, especially a pleasant sounding or harmonious combination or succession of words:the majestic euphony of Milton's poetry.
-----------------

Ok, with that out of the way, I'd like to say the word, and entire question, is rather vague.  The answer is: I neither agree or disagree.

I know some who did not like the Lyr 3 because it was too "in your face".  I like it because it's very impactful and energetic.   What lead to the differing opinions?  Everything else in the audio chain and personal preference.

The person I mentioned tried it with an HD800, a bright tube, and a DAC which is rather lean for my tastes.

My chain uses the ZMF Eikons, a fairly neutral tube, and Mimby.

I'll bet if we swapped setups, our opinions would change too.

So, if what you are actually asking is whether you should or should not buy the Lyr 3, my answer will be: How the heck would I know.    If you want euphony - specifically the "harmonious combination" of headphone, dac and amps -  then give me more information about your setup, and I might be able to help you.


----------



## roshambo (Apr 10, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> *euphonic*
> [yoo-fon-ik]
> *adjective*
> 
> ...




I just wanted to know if people were hearing the same things I heard, and if they would classify what they heard the same way I would subjectively.

Personally, I hear Lyr 3 as less impactful than MJ2, but I like you say, it's relative. Lyr 3 is dramatically more impactful than Vali 2.

As far as if I should buy Lyr 3, ack, it's hard. It clearly sounds different than MJ2, but given that MJ2 is so good, I think I might feel stupid. I have some annoyance with how impactful MJ2 is, and perhaps like you say, I should just change something else in the chain. Pickup some LCD2C's or HD650's to support my HD800's. Already using Mimby, which I'm happy with.


----------



## winders

Just got my Lyr 3. Out of the box, with a Sylvania 6SN7W or Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boy", I like it better with my stock HD650 headphones than the MJ2 with WE396A tubes (my favorite tubes for the MJ2 by far) and an XLR cable.


----------



## attmci (Apr 11, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

attmci said:


> I feel obliged to tell you guys there are a bunch of fake "bad boys" 6SN7GT on the market including eBay.
> 
> Here is a pair of the *rare* "Bad Boy" type Sylvania made 6SN7GT vacuum tubes.  These were only made from about 1949 to 1953 and have the tall T-plates (with three holes; no two holes bad boy) and the bottom mounted getter.  These are both dated 1951.



Would you mind showing a picture of their date codes, please?


----------



## winders

Here is a photo of the date code on one of my Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boy" tubes:


----------



## Wildcatsare1

winders said:


> Here is a photo of the date code on one of my Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boy" tubes:



So the underlined 3 is for 53, and 13 is the week?


----------



## Motocrossman24

attmci said:


> I feel obliged to tell you guys there are a bunch of fake "bad boys" 6SN7GT on the market including eBay.
> 
> Here is a pair of the *rare* "Bad Boy" type Sylvania made 6SN7GT vacuum tubes.  These were only made from about 1949 to 1953 and have the tall T-plates (with three holes; no two holes bad boy) and the bottom mounted getter.  These are both dated 1951.




*Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 “Bad Boy” *
_Also JAN-CHS-6SN7GT
Made only from late 1951 (‘1-48’ examples seen) to 1952. Differs slightly in construction from ‘regular’ Sylvania rectangular top mica 6SN7GTs. Re-labeled bad boys are known to exist._
Base: black, green labels marked ‘2-XX’ (where XX is the week of the year)
Glass: clear
Plates: black, T-plate with 3 holes per plate
Getter: bottom, foil, flashing can extend up to 1/3 of way up tube
Top mica: rectangular with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges
Other significant features: bottom mica is rectangular. When seen, date codes are vertically arranged (from top to bottom) ‘YWW’ with Y underlined. Y = last digit of year, WW = week number of year.

The “bad boys” were only made in 51 and 52 and they stopped the 3he production very early in the year in 52 so the 1952 bad boys are nearly impossible to find


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ahh... The good old "bad boy" debate.   This should be good.


----------



## winders (Apr 11, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> *Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 “Bad Boy” *
> _Also JAN-CHS-6SN7GT
> Made only from late 1951 (‘1-48’ examples seen) to 1952. Differs slightly in construction from ‘regular’ Sylvania rectangular top mica 6SN7GTs. Re-labeled bad boys are known to exist._
> Base: black, green labels marked ‘2-XX’ (where XX is the week of the year)
> ...



This text is wrong. The "Bad Boy" tubes were made into early 1953.

This is from the same guy and thread you got that text from:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/#post-2524162

Bad Boys were only made in 
- late 1951
- 1952 
- early 1953

Thus they will be marked with either 
- '1xx' (late week production numbers only), 
- '2xx' (all 52 weeks of the year) or 
- '3xx' (early week production numbers only) 
date codes.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Just got the amp set up, pc is still downloading the driver for the multibit, so it’s hooked up right from my iPhone 8+ running tidal...the lyr3 is amazing. My he560 finally have that planar bass I knew was in there somewhere...the magni and Vali I was using prior just can’t hold a candle to this amp. Just running the stock Tung Sol right now, if it gets better then this with the vintage tubes I have, I’m in for a treat. Much more detail through the entire frequency then either the magni or Vali.


----------



## disastermouse

EagleWings said:


> Unfortunately there’s no way around it. You definitely need the CCK cable.


What do you need to go from Android to a USB DAC? I have an LG V20.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 11, 2018)

disastermouse said:


> What do you need to go from Android to a USB DAC? I have an LG V20.



If you just wanna use the lyr3 amp just use a rca to 3.5mm interconnect.

If you want to use the lyr3 dac
https://m.miniinthebox.com/en/p/0-6...GLHOOnlfUcVWaZrqJdAQivl2V5CKqDnoaAjDxEALw_wcB


----------



## threegr

Anyone compared Lyr2 and Lyr3, side by side? Brief impressions will also help...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> Sub'd



Hey @FLTWS , nice to see you over here, loving the Lyr 3 with my Abyss (non-Phi), it really is a great, affordable option.


----------



## EagleWings

Motocrossman24 said:


> If you want to use the lyr3 dac
> https://m.miniinthebox.com/en/p/0-6...GLHOOnlfUcVWaZrqJdAQivl2V5CKqDnoaAjDxEALw_wcB



I believe LG V20 uses a USB Type-C Port.



disastermouse said:


> What do you need to go from Android to a USB DAC? I have an LG V20.



I believe this should work. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14830


----------



## FLTWS

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey @FLTWS , nice to see you over here, loving the Lyr 3 with my Abyss (non-Phi), it really is a great, affordable option.



Thanks, I'm looking forward to comparing the Lyr3 to my MJ2 and RH-5. I enjoy and appreciate what SS circuits can do but man, 
I am a bona-fide tube junkie and variety is the spice for my listening habit!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 11, 2018)

1950's Tung-Sol tube in the Lyr 3 since Monday.   Picked it up for about $30.

Kind of a balance between the more neutral stock NOS 6H8C and Ken-Rad VT-231.  Not as in-your-face as the KR, and has better mids in the male and female vocal ranges.   Was kind of tizzy up top at first, but after running it for a few days this seems to be gone.

Great tube.  A little more colored than the Raytheon tube (which is still my current favorite).


Tall bottle, angled black T plates, horseshoe getter.

Edit - Staging is excellent with this tube.  Very 3D-ish and wide.


----------



## ilikepooters

Postman been today, got the HE-500's i was waiting for and also got my first tube for Lyr 3





Red base 5692, shame i not got an amp to test it in.


----------



## Motocrossman24

So far between the stock Tung Sol, mouse ear Tung Sol, sylvania bad boy and 1950s staggered plate rca, I’m enjoying the rca the most. Granted, none of the tubes even have an hour on them, and the amp may have just over an hour on it...going to stick with the rca for a bit to let it and the amp break in some. Atleast until my rca grey glass comes in to try. Definitely an amp you can put just about any tube in and enjoy, I wasn’t disappointed with any of the tubes, just preference the warmth of the rca.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Warning, I’m about to go full Fan Boi on Schiit.....with 4 days of playing music and remaining on 24/7, I truly believe the Lyr 3 is one of the greatest bargains in ahead Fi! 

Listening to David Byrne, “Live in Austin” with the Focal Clear, a fantastic headphone,though I’d always thought headstage was its greatest deficit. What I’m hearing this morning is the same great tonality, dynamics and speed, I expect with the Clear, but also a deep, broad (narrower than the Abyss, HD800), stage.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Warning, I’m about to go full Fan Boi on Schiit.....with 4 days of playing music and remaining on 24/7, I truly believe the Lyr 3 is one of the greatest bargains in ahead Fi!
> 
> Listening to David Byrne, “Live in Austin” with the Focal Clear, a fantastic headphone,though I’d always thought headstage was its greatest deficit. What I’m hearing this morning is the same great tonality, dynamics and speed, I expect with the Clear, but also a deep, broad (narrower than the Abyss, HD800), stage.


I am right there with ya!  I get blown away every time, I use my Lyr 3.  It just keeps getting better.  I am reaching the 100 hour mark, and it is really settling in and continues to impress.  LIve recordings are so real sounding, it is scary


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wes S said:


> I am right there with ya!  I get blown away every time, I use my Lyr 3.  It just keeps getting better.  I am reaching the 100 hour mark, and it is really settling in and continues to impress.  LIve recordings are so real sounding, it is scary



It truly is one of the greatest bargains in Head Fi, hopefully @Tyll Hertsens will be reviewing one soon!


----------



## Motocrossman24

I finally had time to let the amp/multibit warm up for about an hour last night before listening and it’s definately a difference. Quite a bit smoother and more detailed then cold starts with it. Anyone using this amp/dac with tidal? What bitrate setting do you use? I had it on 16/44.1 which I believe is tidals native. But switched to 24/196 to see if I could hear a difference and besides a quieter noise floor it sounded the same to my ears. Some of the tracks that had a bit of background hiss/krackle did not have this anymore.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 12, 2018)

Just got an E-Mail from Schiit, my LYR3 has shipped!!!
Going out for dinner to friends house to celebrate!!!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> Just got an E-Mail from Schiit, my LYR3 has shipped!!!
> Going out for dinner to friends house to celebrate!!!



I look forward to reading your impressions!


----------



## Alcophone

Motocrossman24 said:


> I finally had time to let the amp/multibit warm up for about an hour last night before listening and it’s definately a difference. Quite a bit smoother and more detailed then cold starts with it. Anyone using this amp/dac with tidal? What bitrate setting do you use? I had it on 16/44.1 which I believe is tidals native. But switched to 24/196 to see if I could hear a difference and besides a quieter noise floor it sounded the same to my ears. Some of the tracks that had a bit of background hiss/krackle did not have this anymore.


I configure Tidal to use the DAC directly in exclusive mode, this way Tidal sets the sample rate as needed (24/44.1 for most content and 24/96 for "Master" files (MQA)).


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 12, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> As promised.   From Top to bottom.
> 1)  Raytheon 6SN7GTB flat black plates, round mica, top getter.
> 2) Stock NOS Russian 6H8C
> 3) Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 6SN7GTB angled black T plates, round mica, foil getter.
> ...



My preferred list changed.

1) Raytheon 6SN7GTB flat black plates, round mica, top getter.
2) *TungSol 6SN7GTB, angled T plates, top horseshoe getter, 1950's era*
3) Stock NOS Russian 6H8C
3) *Westinghouse 6SN7GTB flat black plate, top horseshoe getter*
5) Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 6SN7GTB angled black T plates, round mica, foil getter.
6) NP TungSol 6SN7GTB from Schiit
7) KenRad VT-231 black glass, bottom getter

Tung-Sol put in #2 place.   Very similar to the Raytheon.  Less bass presence, but very slightly wider soundstage.

Westinghouse tied for 3rd.  Neutral.  Impactful.  I can't decide if I like it's neutrality more than the slight color I get with the stock NOS tube or not.   Called it a tie at the end of the day.

Swapped #6 and 7.   The KenRad fatigues me with the treble over a longer listening sessions.

#8 - Removed.  Too gooey even for me.  Sorry RCA fans.  Still, might be good for taming Beyer DT990 Premium / T1 "treble-spike-of-auditory-murder".   Would probably drive ZMF Atticus / Sony Z1R headphones into ultra-goo mode (not recommended, as cranial leakage would ensue).


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> My preferred list changed.
> 
> 1) Raytheon 6SN7GTB flat black plates, round mica, top getter.
> 2) *TungSol 6SN7GTB, angled T plates, top horseshoe getter, 1950's era*
> ...


Between #1 and #2 - can you summarize the differences (and compare to the stock Russian that comes with the Lyr3 by default)?
Also, between #1 and #2 - which one is easier to find and/or cheaper to buy?


----------



## uncletim

everyone likes the amp, how does the preamp sound? would it be similar to Saga? I like the remote on the Saga if using as a preamp.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> Between #1 and #2 - can you summarize the differences (and compare to the stock Russian that comes with the Lyr3 by default)?
> Also, between #1 and #2 - which one is easier to find and/or cheaper to buy?


I'll have to address your first question later, but the Raytheon was cheaper.   About $20 vs the $35 I spent on the TS.


----------



## eagerears

mingus said:


> everyone likes the amp, how does the preamp sound? would it be similar to Saga? I like the remote on the Saga if using as a preamp.


I've been using mine mostly as a preamp and it's great. I've ordered a Saga on the assumption that it's going to sound very similar (also want the remote in the living room).


----------



## ProfFalkin

eagerears said:


> I've been using mine mostly as a preamp and it's great. I've ordered a Saga on the assumption that it's going to sound very similar (also want the remote in the living room).


The Saga is a lot more flexible and a lot less expensive.  Why use the lyr as a preamp?


----------



## eagerears

ProfFalkin said:


> The Saga is a lot more flexible and a lot less expensive.  Why use the lyr as a preamp?


Different rooms and different uses! In my library/listening room, I have my turntable and I sit close to both the Lyr and the 'table, so I can use either headphones or speakers. That was actually a big reason for getting it, because it fits what I wanted to do pretty perfectly: have a preamp with line in (for my DAC), phono stage, and headamp!

The setup in my living room is different, there I never use the headphone amp in the integrated amp I currently have, and neither do I use most of its other features (or power), so I'm replacing it with a Saga and a little Parasound power amp.


----------



## ProfFalkin

eagerears said:


> Different rooms and different uses! In my library/listening room, I have my turntable and I sit close to both the Lyr and the 'table, so I can use either headphones or speakers. That was actually a big reason for getting it, because it fits what I wanted to do pretty perfectly: have a preamp with line in (for my DAC), phono stage, and headamp!
> 
> The setup in my living room is different, there I never use the headphone amp in the integrated amp I currently have, and neither do I use most of its other features (or power), so I'm replacing it with a Saga and a little Parasound power amp.


That makes total sense, thanks!


----------



## alphanumerix1

weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.

Thoughts?


----------



## ProfFalkin

alphanumerix1 said:


> weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.
> 
> Thoughts?


Thought was "which tube?".  Need info.


----------



## JohnBal

Well, mine is out for delivery. The waitin is the hardest part...


----------



## EagleWings (Apr 13, 2018)

alphanumerix1 said:


> weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.
> 
> Thoughts?



I am not the best person to offer feedback on this, as I am fairly new to desktop gear and this is my first discrete amp and I don't have other amps to compare Lyr 3 with. But let me just add my 2 cents.

Switching the Gain to HG makes the upper-mids brighter and adds a bit of hardness in the treble, which might be partially responsible. Or are you observing that in LG itself? The DAC could have an influence too. I am using a Hugo 2 which is slightly mid-centric, i.e. it has very good presence in the center mids that bridge the lower-mids and upper-mids. Because of which I don't feel the disjoint. Let me try using my Lotoo Paw Gold as source and get back to you.

Source: Hugo 2
Tube: Tung-Sol 6SN7, Module: No Module
HPs: HD800S, Audeze LCD-i4


----------



## junki

alphanumerix1 said:


> weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.
> 
> Thoughts?


You're not the first to hear that in the Lyr 3.


----------



## ModMax

FedEx just dropped a big box of Schiit at my doorstep!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Well, a sad tale, I installed a NOS Sylvania “Bad Boy” and I was greated by a puff of white smoke! I immediately unplugged the Amp, pulled the offending tube out, and let it cool off for a bit. 

Then out of curiosity, I installed a tube I know and it’s playing like nothing happened, has anyone experienced anything like this?


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Well, a sad tale, I installed a NOS Sylvania “Bad Boy” and I was greated by a puff of white smoke! I immediately unplugged the Amp, pulled the offending tube out, and let it cool off for a bit.
> 
> Then out of curiosity, I installed a tube I know and it’s playing like nothing happened, has anyone experienced anything like this?



A puff of white smoke from the amp?  Or the tube?  I've never seen a tube go up in smoke, although I've seen a couple go nuclear.


----------



## roshambo

bcowen said:


> A puff of white smoke from the amp?  Or the tube?  I've never seen a tube go up in smoke, although I've seen a couple go nuclear.



Nuclear? Like what did you see? I've heard tubes can implode


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bcowen said:


> A puff of white smoke from the amp?  Or the tube?  I've never seen a tube go up in smoke, although I've seen a couple go nuclear.



It was out of the amp, I couldn’t find any breaks in the tubes glass. Though I wonder a break in the base could be the issue.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I'd be on the emergency phone line with Schiit.

"MY BABY!  OMG, MY BABY IS ON FIRE!!!!   OMG SOMEONE HELP OMG!!!"  <insert hysterical crying>


----------



## quimbo

new to tubes, found this thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/


----------



## Motocrossman24

Yea it’s a pretty detailed thread


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> I'd be on the emergency phone line with Schiit.
> 
> "MY BABY!  OMG, MY BABY IS ON FIRE!!!!   OMG SOMEONE HELP OMG!!!"  <insert hysterical crying>



How did you know, did the Schiit Line Operator tattle on me !


----------



## Motocrossman24

Wildcatsare1 said:


> How did you know, did the Schiit Line Operator tattle on me !



They want you to send it back?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

roshambo said:


> Nuclear? Like what did you see? I've heard tubes can implode



I had thNOS tube in, turned the Lyr on, then when I plugged my headphones in I heard a little pop an smoke.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Motocrossman24 said:


> They want you to send it back?



Yes, so heading home as soon as receive the return authorization.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, so heading home as soon as receive the return authorization.



Let us know what they discover and what comes of it. Hopefully your not away from the amp too long.


----------



## bcowen

roshambo said:


> Nuclear? Like what did you see? I've heard tubes can implode



I was sitting on the couch one afternoon immersed in musical nirvana and suddenly heard a crackling out of the right speaker.  Looked at the amp and the plates for the two right channel 6550 power tubes were bright cherry red. As I jumped up in mortal terror there was a pop, which was the fuse in the amp blowing...thank goodness.  Yanked the tubes, replaced the fuse, and everything was OK.   That was my first -- and my last -- purchase of Chinese power tubes.    I've never seen a tube explode (or implode).  I suppose it's possible, although any reasonably well designed amp should have protection for runaway current, either through fuses or resistors (that would fail open).


----------



## Motocrossman24

If you find a sylvania 6sn7wgt buy it! New favorite tube for the lyr3, mines a 1956 with the 3 hole short bottle chrome dome. Looks bad ass in the amp too, almost holographic chrome that looks to extend out of view from the naked eye. The tube is extremely detailed in this amp, it’s hit the perfect amount of oomph in the mids and highs out of all the tubes I’ve tried and also has the most accurate bass and slam. No more tubes for me, found the one.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 14, 2018)

Given that the lower half of the tube is below the deck that smoke could be from the tube base area and just appeared to come from inside the amp. I've experienced some tube related issues over the years but noise issues aside it was always an implosion or the over heated cherry red plates. It's pretty exciting to hear a tube implode even with the volume at a moderate setting. My brother and I affectionately referred to the process as a "launching". One brand of power amp we owned back in the 80's was notorious for doing this, especially with his Infinity RS1's (I think they were) ribbons.

_*"I had thNOS tube in, turned the Lyr on, then when I plugged my headphones in I heard a little pop an smoke."*_

New with the LYR-3; isn't this the first of Schiit's amps that mutes the pre-outs when phones are plugged and vice-versa? Maybe something to do with the auto-mute circuit.


----------



## Wes S

I hear a click/pop, a few seconds after I first turn on my Lyr 3.  It scared the crap out of me when I had my headphones on.  Is this normal?  I thought it was just the tube warming up?


----------



## Wes S

Do you all leave you headphones plugged in, on start up?


----------



## Wes S

My tubes on the Valhalla make noises on startup, but not quite like the lyr 3.


----------



## FLTWS

I always unplug my phones at the end of a listening session with any of my HP amps. With any of my HP amps, tube or SS, I allow them to warm up for 20 to 30 minutes before I plug phones in and start listening.

My LYR-3 is scheduled for delivery Monday per the tracking #.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 14, 2018)

Do any of you, that already have your lyr 3, notice a click/pop sound a few seconds after the tube is powered on? The tube lights ups and then a couple of seconds pass and it seems like something is building up and then click/pop.  Everything seems fine and quite as can be, after the click/pop.  I have heard the exact same sound with all the NOS tubes, I have tried, so I don't think it is the tube.


----------



## EagleWings

@Wes S , I too get them click/pop. On some days, the pop/click is too loud, while not so loud on the remaining days. But it’s there. 

Apparently, there are some amps that require you to have the phones plugged in before turning on and shouldn’t unplug them before turn off. Example: Massdrop CTH 

Since I am new to the discrete amplifier, I am not sure what the best practice is. @FLTWS  seems to have had extensive experience with amps, and if he is okay with not having the headphone plugged in during start up, I feel confident/comfortable following the same.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Do any of you, that already have your lyr 3, notice a click/pop sound a few seconds after the tube is powered on? The tube lights ups and then a couple of seconds pass and it seems like something is building up and then click/pop.  Everything seems fine and quite as can be, after the click/pop.  I have heard the exact same sound with all the NOS tubes, I have tried, so I don't think it is the tube.



I haven't heard this with mine, and in fact I listened for it a number of times when I first got it.  No audible indication whatsoever of the mute relay disengaging.  I would always hear a very faint pop with the Vali2...not sure if it had a relay or it was just the tube starting to emit, but so far my Lyr is dead silent.


----------



## Wes S

Just got reply back from Schiit.  They said it was normal operation of muting relay. Pretty awesome customer service, to respond back in minutes on a Saturday morning!   Back to the music


----------



## JohnBal

Wes S said:


> Do any of you, that already have your lyr 3, notice a click/pop sound a few seconds after the tube is powered on? The tube lights ups and then a couple of seconds pass and it seems like something is building up and then click/pop.  Everything seems fine and quite as can be, after the click/pop.  I have heard the exact same sound with all the NOS tubes, I have tried, so I don't think it is the tube.


Does this happen before or after the muting relay disengages?


----------



## JohnBal

Never mind...


----------



## skyline315

Small noise for me when the muting relay kicks off, but that's it.  No noise on startup or shutdown.

I leave my headphones plugged in at all times, but turn the volume down before turning it off and leave the volume down when turning it back on.

I'm using the Stock Russian NOS tube.  Which, really folks...is quite good.  Tube rolling is not mandatory on this amp like it is with the Vali 2 and some others.


----------



## bcowen

skyline315 said:


> Small noise for me when the muting relay kicks off, but that's it.  No noise on startup or shutdown.
> 
> I leave my headphones plugged in at all times, but turn the volume down before turning it off and leave the volume down when turning it back on.
> 
> I'm using the Stock Russian NOS tube.  Which, really folks...is quite good.  Tube rolling is not mandatory on this amp like it is with the Vali 2 and some others.



I should have added to my previous reply that I do the same thing: turn the volume all the way down before turning the Lyr on/off.  Guess it's just habit with tube electronics, but not a bad practice even with solid state.  Wonder if the volume setting has anything to do with the loudness of the click/pop in the Lyr?  Someone else try it and let us know.


----------



## Wes S

Come to think of it, I did not hear it with the stock Russian tube.  I only started hearing it, with my KenRad and RCA's.   I always turn the volume all the way down, before startup and shutdown.


----------



## Wes S

Perhaps the loudness of the pop/click, muting relay, is tube dependent.


----------



## Wes S

Stock Russian tube is from 80's? and RCA is from 1945.  Not sure if that has anything to do with it?


----------



## Reckless95

bcowen said:


> I should have added to my previous reply that I do the same thing: turn the volume all the way down before turning the Lyr on/off.  Guess it's just habit with tube electronics, but not a bad practice even with solid state.  Wonder if the volume setting has anything to do with the loudness of the click/pop in the Lyr?  Someone else try it and let us know.



If it's from the relay, it'd likely be if the current is on the higher side.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 14, 2018)

Wes S said:


> Perhaps the loudness of the pop/click, muting relay, is tube dependent.



I believe it is tube dependent, I've read some tube types / brands can be louder than others at turn on even with these small signal tubes. Back when I was 2 channel with tubed powered amps I would always hear the crinkling / crackling noise of EL34 and KT88 types as the glass and other parts of the tube start to heat up / cool down with turn on / turn off. Usually settled in under a minute. Completely normal in my experience. I don't remember any of my transformer coupled tube power amps ever even having mute relays, I guess the transformers in them  acted as some kind of buffer (maybe!), and, of course, they were always connected to speakers not HP's so volume to zero was the ingrained rule before hitting the power on / off switch.

When any of my 3 Schiit amps un-mutes, all I've ever heard is a soft "click".

Another thought crossed my mind, it'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to repair / replace my headphone amps than my headphones!


----------



## Wes S

I am going to leave them unplugged on startup/shutdown, from now on.  Thanks to all for responses and advice!


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> If you find a sylvania 6sn7wgt buy it! New favorite tube for the lyr3, mines a 1956 with the 3 hole short bottle chrome dome. Looks bad ass in the amp too, almost holographic chrome that looks to extend out of view from the naked eye. The tube is extremely detailed in this amp, it’s hit the perfect amount of oomph in the mids and highs out of all the tubes I’ve tried and also has the most accurate bass and slam. No more tubes for me, found the one.



I'm having a blast with a different Sylvania -- exquisitely detailed in the mids and treble without brightness or etch, warm, very tube-y midrange without being gooey or syrupy, and just a real toe-tapper with a nice integration of dynamics and timing.  A bit lightweight in the bass, but the Loki fixes that.  Cannot find anything on the date/vintage though.  T-shaped black plates, top rectangular getter, and printed on top (impossible to photograph) inside the octagon is 6SN7 GTB.  Just below and outside the octagon is "G7B."  Only other marking is the "EB" on the base.  Anybody have a clue to the vintage?


----------



## lentoviolento

what is the difference between the tubes that you can choose when you buy lyr3? apart from the lisst that i know.. thx


----------



## exdmd

bcowen said:


> I'm having a blast with a different Sylvania -- exquisitely detailed in the mids and treble without brightness or etch, warm, very tube-y midrange without being gooey or syrupy, and just a real toe-tapper with a nice integration of dynamics and timing.  A bit lightweight in the bass, but the Loki fixes that.  Cannot find anything on the date/vintage though.  T-shaped black plates, top rectangular getter, and printed on top (impossible to photograph) inside the octagon is 6SN7 GTB.  Just below and outside the octagon is "G7B."  Only other marking is the "EB" on the base.  Anybody have a clue to the vintage?



Early 1950's. The mil-spec tubes had a brown base.


----------



## Motocrossman24

The pop u hear with the amp definately isn’t tube dependent, I get 2 pops on mine every time I power up no matter what time I’m using, one like 3-5 seconds after power up which may be something for the heaters, cuz when it happens the glow is starting to come on and the last pop is when the mute relay trips about 40 seconds after power up. I only hear it with cans on of the volume is up, but if you just leave cans off u can hear it just sitting close to the amp. But I do leave mine in at all times, volume up and all and never had an issue


----------



## bcowen

exdmd said:


> Early 1950's. The mil-spec tubes had a brown base.



Thanks!  Had no idea it was _that_ kind of vintage...been sitting in the tube stash for ages.  But I'm liking what I hear out of it so much I found another on Ebay that appears identical....for $18.74 with free shipping.


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

Hi all! I’m new here as a member! Although I’ve been following the forum since 2015...  I’m looking for an headphone amplifier and I’m quite interested In the lyr 3, but I have a few questions:
1. I prefer a warmer sound instead Of a brighter one ( for example I can’t stand high freq sparkles Or something like that. I’ve tried The Beyer Pro 990 and although They had a good resolution i couldn’t listen To The them  for more than 5 minutes because Of The highs  My problem... )
So, because Of that: it’s Better The Asgard 2 or The Lyr 3 with a “dark” tube ( like RCAs or The stock Nos Russian) ?
2. I’ve never had a desktop headphones amplifier... how can you compare that with integrated amplifiers like The ones in The Dap’s ( for ex, like fiio X7 2 that I’ve)? It’s a true Night and Day difference?
Thank you in advance 

P.s. Sorry for any grammatical error but English is not my first languange


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 15, 2018)

antoramp said:


> Hi all! I’m new here as a member! Although I’ve been following the forum since 2015...  I’m looking for an headphone amplifier and I’m quite interested In the lyr 3, but I have a few questions:
> 1. I prefer a warmer sound instead Of a brighter one ( for example I can’t stand high freq sparkles Or something like that. I’ve tried The Beyer Pro 990 and although They had a good resolution i couldn’t listen To The them  for more than 5 minutes because Of The highs  My problem... )
> So, because Of that: it’s Better The Asgard 2 or The Lyr 3 with a “dark” tube ( like RCAs or The stock Nos Russian) ?
> 2. I’ve never had a desktop headphones amplifier... how can you compare that with integrated amplifiers like The ones in The Dap’s ( for ex, like fiio X7 2 that I’ve)? It’s a true Night and Day difference?
> ...



What headphones do you plan to use? I wouldn’t say the lyr3 is bright at all, it’s just very detailed in all frequencies. The Asgard is most likely a warmer amp but it’s an inferior amp from what I have gathered. I have run my he400i, he560 and a friends HD600 through the lyr3 and all sounded amazing. I couldn’t be happier having purchased the lyr3 and it’s honestly going to be the last headphone amp I buy it’s that good, unless I decide to get some HD600/650 then I’d get an otl tube amp as I still think the senns sound best powered by otl.

I don’t think you can compare the lyr3 to any portable amp...it’s a 6+ watt monster that has been geniusly crafted and offered at a price point way lower then it could be sold at otherwise...no portable Iv used comes even close to the lyr3.


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> What headphones do you plan to use? I wouldn’t say the lyr3 is bright at all, it’s just very detailed in all frequencies. The Asgard is most likely a warmer amp but it’s an inferior amp from what I have gathered. I have run my he400i, he560 and a friends HD600 through the lyr3 and all sounded amazing. I couldn’t be happier having purchased the lyr3 and it’s honestly going to be the last headphone amp I buy it’s that good, unless I decide to get some HD600/650 then I’d get an otl tube amp as I still think the senns sound best powered by otl.
> 
> I don’t think you can compare the lyr3 to any portable amp...it’s a 6+ watt monster that has been geniusly crafted and offered at a price point way lower then it could be sold at otherwise...no portable Iv used comes even close to the lyr3.



Thank you  At The moment I’ve The Focal Spirit Classic but I’m planning To buy at least a new headphone ( but not In The nearest future, maybe one Of The Hifiman Series ). I think I’ll go with The Lyr 3


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

Another important question: Any fondamental differencies with The Schiit Ak4490 or The Multibit Dac? Because i think I’m planning To buy The amp with The Dac inside.
Thanks for any advise


----------



## bcowen

A tale of two Raytheons.  As always, this is my opinion, preference, YMMV, and all that.  These were pulled from my stash, and I gave both approx. 50 hours of break-in (in my Vali2) prior to listening in the Lyr3.  On the left is a 6SN7WGT.  Really nice sounding tube.  Strong and nicely defined bass, fairly linear in the mids and treble with nice layering and detail. Very dynamic. Not what I'd call a warm tube by any means, but not sterile or whitewashed sounding either.  Not my favorite in the Lyr so far, but one I could happily enjoy if it's all I had.  On the right is a 6SN7GT, VT-231.   This tube is absolutely unlistenable, with a treble presentation that makes it feel like your ears are being drilled out with a carbide-tipped drill bit.  I made it through about 3 songs before the volume of blood filled the Alpha Prime earcups and started running down my neck.  Ugh.  Had good bass though.     I have several more of these, so another one is burning in the Vali now just to see if this particular tube is an outlier or is actually representative of the design.  At this point, I'll have to wait a week for my ears to heal before I can listen to it though.


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> Another important question: Any fondamental differencies with The Schiit Ak4490 or The Multibit Dac? Because i think I’m planning To buy The amp with The Dac inside.
> Thanks for any advise


I'd actually suggest going with the 4490 DAC over the Multibit DAC if you are looking at the internal cards.  If you want Multibit, get the Modi MB DAC as it provides better soundstage and can be left on all the time for uniform sound and is only $50 more.


----------



## EagleWings

antoramp said:


> Hi all! I’m new here as a member! Although I’ve been following the forum since 2015...  I’m looking for an headphone amplifier and I’m quite interested In the lyr 3, but I have a few questions:
> 1. I prefer a warmer sound instead Of a brighter one ( for example I can’t stand high freq sparkles Or something like that. I’ve tried The Beyer Pro 990 and although They had a good resolution i couldn’t listen To The them  for more than 5 minutes because Of The highs  My problem... )
> So, because Of that: it’s Better The Asgard 2 or The Lyr 3 with a “dark” tube ( like RCAs or The stock Nos Russian) ?
> 2. I’ve never had a desktop headphones amplifier... how can you compare that with integrated amplifiers like The ones in The Dap’s ( for ex, like fiio X7 2 that I’ve)? It’s a true Night and Day difference?
> ...



1. Well, it really depends. As @Motocrossman24 mentioned, the Lyr 3 is not bright. But it is quite transparent. As a result, the accompanying gear (DAC and Headphone) are going to play a role in determining the brightness you will get. I use Hugo 2 as the DAC and when I compare Hugo 2 vs Hugo 2+Lyr 3 combo, the H2+L3 combo actually sounds a touch smoother than Hugo 2 alone. Which is an indication that Lyr 3 smooths out brightness by a tiny bit. Overall, the amp sounds quite clear and it probably doesn't have the level of the tubey warmth in the mid-range, that many look for in tube amps. Also, the amp sounds a touch bright right out-of-the-box. After a day or 2 of usage, the brightness seems to disappear after a day or 2.

2. I am also coming from portable audio. Amp sections in DAPs use OpAmps. Lyr 3 is a fully discrete amplifier. Here are the 4 differences you can expect:
    i) Improved Macro-Dynamics (bass slam, bass depth, authority, rumbles)
    ii) Larger soundstage
    iii) Larger size of the instrument images in the soundstage - Because of this, you will notice some finer nuances around the notes


----------



## antoramp

ProfFalkin said:


> I'd actually suggest going with the 4490 DAC over the Multibit DAC if you are looking at the internal cards.  If you want Multibit, get the Modi MB DAC as it provides better soundstage and can be left on all the time for uniform sound and is only $50 more.



Thank You ... So I’ll go for the Modi MultiBit  also because In The end could be better to have it separated 



EagleWings said:


> 1. Well, it really depends. As @Motocrossman24 mentioned, the Lyr 3 is not bright. But it is quite transparent. As a result, the accompanying gear (DAC and Headphone) are going to play a role in determining the brightness you will get. I use Hugo 2 as the DAC and when I compare Hugo 2 vs Hugo 2+Lyr 3 combo, the H2+L3 combo actually sounds a touch smoother than Hugo 2 alone. Which is an indication that Lyr 3 smooths out brightness by a tiny bit. Overall, the amp sounds quite clear and it probably doesn't have the level of the tubey warmth in the mid-range, that many look for in tube amps. Also, the amp sounds a touch bright right out-of-the-box. After a day or 2 of usage, the brightness seems to disappear after a day or 2.
> 
> 2. I am also coming from portable audio. Amp sections in DAPs use OpAmps. Lyr 3 is a fully discrete amplifier. Here are the 4 differences you can expect:
> i) Improved Macro-Dynamics (bass slam, bass depth, authority, rumbles)
> ...



Ok that’s what I’m actually looking for! Better imaging and Better Bass Depth! Many thanks for the clarification


----------



## EagleWings

antoramp said:


> Ok that’s what I’m actually looking for! Better imaging and Better Bass Depth! Many thanks for the clarification



You are welcome. The imaging precision may not be a huge improvement. Hugo 2 and LPG have better imaging precision, due to a higher resolution and a blacker background. Lyr 3 may not have the blackest of the backgrounds for someone coming from portable audio.


----------



## FLTWS

ProfFalkin said:


> I'd actually suggest going with the 4490 DAC over the Multibit DAC if you are looking at the internal cards.  If you want Multibit, get the Modi MB DAC as it provides better soundstage and can be left on all the time for uniform sound and is only $50 more.



I agree.


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> You are welcome. The imaging precision may not be a huge improvement. Hugo 2 and LPG have better imaging precision, due to a higher resolution and a blacker background. Lyr 3 may not have the blackest of the backgrounds for someone coming from portable audio.



Ah... Good To know! So should a solid-state Amplifier ( e.g. Asgard 2 or Jotunheim ) have Blacker background than The Lyr 3? or it’s not a matter of tube-amp vs ss-Amps?
Because I’ve never listen To a Tube amp...


----------



## EagleWings

antoramp said:


> Ah... Good To know! So should a solid-state Amplifier ( e.g. Asgard 2 or Jotunheim ) have Blacker background than The Lyr 3? or it’s not a matter of tube-amp vs ss-Amps?
> Because I’ve never listen To a Tube amp...



Honestly, I am not qualified to answer that as I have seldom experience with desktop amps, let alone SS amps. What I can say for sure is, the lack of totally black background is not due to my hum from the tube. I guess it has to do with the overall noise floor and THD+N of the amp. And I am guessing, at $500 it’s not going to get any better than this. For amps that measure better, we probably need to spend more than $1000.


----------



## antoramp

EagleWings said:


> Honestly, I am not qualified to answer that as I have seldom experience with desktop amps, let alone SS amps. What I can say for sure is, the lack of totally black background is not due to my hum from the tube. I guess it has to do with the overall noise floor and THD+N of the amp. And I am guessing, at $500 it’s not going to get any better than this. For amps that measure better, we probably need to spend more than $1000.



Ok ok thanks!  I'm in the 500-600 euros zone so the Lyr 3 will be perfect! ( In Italy it costs €580 )


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 15, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> Honestly, I am not qualified to answer that as I have seldom experience with desktop amps, let alone SS amps. What I can say for sure is, the lack of totally black background is not due to my hum from the tube. I guess it has to do with the overall noise floor and THD+N of the amp. And I am guessing, at $500 it’s not going to get any better than this. For amps that measure better, we probably need to spend more than $1000.


I have to disagree with this.  I own the Lyr 2, and when it's used with tubes, there is a very moderate but constant soft hiss (the perceived amount of hiss is very headphone dependent) that is directly caused by the tubes.  I know this because when I use the solid-state LISST tubes, that hiss completely disappears, but so does all of the 'tube magic' that helps make the Lyr amps sound so good.  It's not that it sounds bad with the LISST, far from it, but it definitely losses some lifelike resolution when the tubes are gone.


----------



## antoramp

XERO1 said:


> I have to disagree with this.  I own the Lyr 2, and when it's used with tubes, there is a very moderate but constant soft hiss (the perceived amount of hiss is very headphone dependent) that is directly caused by the tubes.  I know this because when I use the solid-state LISST tubes, that hiss completely disappears, but so does all of the 'tube magic' that helps make the Lyr amps sound so good.  It's not that is sounds bad with the LISST, far from it, but it definitely losses some lifelike resolution when the tubes are gone.



Ok! But using LISST tubes: is it like having a true ss-amp? Or are there some differences?


----------



## XERO1

antoramp said:


> Ok! But using LISST tubes: is it like having a true ss-amp? Or are there some differences?


The Lyr amps become 100% SS when the LISST tubes are used.


----------



## antoramp

XERO1 said:


> The Lyr amps become 100% SS when the LISST tubes are used.


Ok perfect... So I'll add a LISST tube in the shopping chart


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 15, 2018)

antoramp said:


> Ok perfect... So I'll add a LISST tube in the shopping chart


Just FYI,
While I'm not totally sure about this (you should double-check with your dealer), by selecting the LISST tube when purchasing the Lyr 3, you are substituting the stock tube for the LISST, so it won't ship with both, just one or the other.
If you want both, you need to also add the one you didn't select to the order, and the cost works out to be nearly the same ether way you do it.


----------



## antoramp

XERO1 said:


> Just FYI,
> While I'm not totally sure about this (you should double-check with your dealer), by selecting the LISST tube when purchasing the Lyr 3, you are substituting the stock tube for the LISST, so it won't ship with both, just one or the other.
> If you want both, you need to also add the one you didn't select to the order, and the cost works out to be nearly the same ether way you do it.


Ok I'll take care of this when I buy the Amp


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> Ok! But using LISST tubes: is it like having a true ss-amp? Or are there some differences?


It is true SS, but I think a more important question is: Does it sound good?

A: It's not Terrible. Any of the stock tubes sound noticeably better.  If you want SS, get the Jotunheim.  It has better sound stage than the Lyr3 + LISST, better clarity, etc.


----------



## antoramp

ProfFalkin said:


> It is true SS, but I think a more important question is: Does it sound good?
> 
> A: It's not Terrible. Any of the stock tubes sound noticeably better.  If you want SS, get the Jotunheim.  It has better sound stage than the Lyr3 + LISST, better clarity, etc.


Ah! But I’ve heard that The Jotunheim was quite bright, isn’t it?


----------



## lentoviolento

antoramp said:


> Ah! But I’ve heard that The Jotunheim was quite bright, isn’t it?



dove l'hai visto a 580 in italia? proaudio non lo ha ancora a listino e a maggio quando sarà disponibile in italia si suppone costerà quanto costa adesso il lyr2 ossia 490....
comunque il jot io lo eviterei perchè devi usarlo in bilanciato e per ogni cuffia devi poi avere il cavo terminato in bilanciato.. altri soldi


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> Ah! But I’ve heard that The Jotunheim was quite bright, isn’t it?


Mine isn't. 

Out of the 4 Jots I've heard, only one was a bit tizzy up top, and that was a release-day ordered Jot.


----------



## ProfFalkin

lentoviolento said:


> dove l'hai visto a 580 in italia? proaudio non lo ha ancora a listino e a maggio quando sarà disponibile in italia si suppone costerà quanto costa adesso il lyr2 ossia 490....
> comunque il jot io lo eviterei perchè devi usarlo in bilanciato e per ogni cuffia devi poi avere il cavo terminato in bilanciato.. altri soldi


I disagree.  I used single ended connections on my Jotunheim as well as the balanced, and they both sound fine.


----------



## antoramp

lentoviolento said:


> dove l'hai visto a 580 in italia? proaudio non lo ha ancora a listino e a maggio quando sarà disponibile in italia si suppone costerà quanto costa adesso il lyr2 ossia 490....
> comunque il jot io lo eviterei perchè devi usarlo in bilanciato e per ogni cuffia devi poi avere il cavo terminato in bilanciato.. altri soldi


https://www.schiit-europe.com/
Il loro sito ufficiale 
Per i cavi per me non ci sarebbero tanti problemi perché li ho già in realtà... xD


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> Mine isn't.
> 
> Out of the 4 Jots I've heard, only one was a bit tizzy up top, and that was a release-day ordered Jot.


ok that could be a game changer for me... The possibility to  have The balanced connection...


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I disagree.  I used single ended connections on my Jotunheim as well as the balanced, and they both sound fine.


How can you compare The Jotunheim Single Ended vs Balanced Vs Lyr 3 with true tubes ( like the Russian or the one you prefer ) in background noise, clarity, imaging and bass response? Thank you


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> How can you compare The Jotunheim Single Ended vs Balanced Vs Lyr 3 with true tubes ( like the Russian or the one you prefer ) in background noise, clarity, imaging and bass response? Thank you


With headphones.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> With headphones.



LOL!  I can't even believe you'd mention headphones in a forum like this.  Bad, bad.


----------



## terminatetrails (Apr 15, 2018)

antoramp said:


> How can you compare The Jotunheim Single Ended vs Balanced Vs Lyr 3 with true tubes ( like the Russian or the one you prefer ) in background noise, clarity, imaging and bass response? Thank you


I can only speak to experience comparing Jot to MJ2.  There is no comparison IMHO.  MJ2 has that smooth tubey goodness that makes Jot feel a bit sterile to me (not bad, just cleaned up).  If Lyr 3 is approaching MJ2 territory (or surpassing it!! as some on here seem to indicate), I would not worry about going balanced.  You will get full power from Lyr 3.  If I were starting from scratch and wasn't already so far down this balanced rabbit hole, I might change course myself.  But hey, with MJ2/Gumby I have a premium stack for one place, and with Jumby I have a portable mb amp that is transportable and I don't have to worry about breaking tubes.  It literally travels in my gym bag.
Bourbon of the moment: Blade and Bow, Louisville, KY


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 15, 2018)

terminatetrails said:


> I can only speak to experience comparing Jot to MJ2.  There is no comparison IMHO.  MJ2 has that smooth tubey goodness that makes Jot feel a bit sterile to me (not bad, just cleaned up).  If Lyr 3 is approaching MJ2 territory (or surpassing it!! as some on here seem to indicate), I would not worry about going balanced.  You will get full power from Lyr 3.  If I were starting from scratch and wasn't already so far down this balanced rabbit hole, I might change course myself.  But hey, with MJ2/Gumby I have a premium stack for one place, and with Jumby I have a portable mb amp that is transportable and I don't have to worry about breaking tubes.  It literally travels in my gym bag.
> Bourbon of the moment: Blade and Bow, Louisville, KY



I agree on the sound comparison, my experience as well. The Jot has very good bass, a bit aggressive midrange, and sometimes, a little too much sparkle on top to my ears.But really works well with Rock.

I still would like to have a balanced version of the LYR-3 in a MJ2 sized box with perhaps some additional features (thinking along the lines of Freya) as there should be additional internal space to work with.

Got an FedX automated phone message earlier to be home tomorrow to sign for my LYR-3.Looking forward to head to head matches with all my amps after some break-in time.


----------



## chef8489

Sound wise. Is there any benefit to the Bifrost to Lyr 3 vs the built in multibit module?


----------



## mks100

I'll keep this simple.  The Lyr 3 w/ Multibit DAC is simply the best Audio purchase I have made in my 45 years.  Thank you Jason and Mike.  Your efforts are truly appreciated.


----------



## Motocrossman24

chef8489 said:


> Sound wise. Is there any benefit to the Bifrost to Lyr 3 vs the built in multibit module?



Some have said the bimby is better mostly because you can leave it powered on and keep it warmed up. I have not used a bimby but my lyr3/multibit is fantastic, I brought it to a friends yesterday to use against his mojo and both of us preferred the multibit lyr3...it really is a nice dac, and it just compliments an amazing amp combo.


----------



## chef8489

Motocrossman24 said:


> Some have said the bimby is better mostly because you can leave it powered on and keep it warmed up. I have not used a bimby but my lyr3/multibit is fantastic, I brought it to a friends yesterday to use against his mojo and both of us preferred the multibit lyr3...it really is a nice dac, and it just compliments an amazing amp combo.


Emailed Schiit to ask and they said they both use the same Multibit module. Still waiting on to hear if there is any binifit in their eye to having both the bifrost and Lyr 3 over the Lyr 3 with multibit.


----------



## GenEricOne

chef8489 said:


> Emailed Schiit to ask and they said they both use the same Multibit module. Still waiting on to hear if there is any binifit in their eye to having both the bifrost and Lyr 3 over the Lyr 3 with multibit.


Top Bimby benefits that come to mind: 5th Gen USB, multiple inputs, can leave it on, can output to another amp down the road.


----------



## antoramp (Apr 15, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> With headphones.


Sorry... I mean the comparison between them...


----------



## antoramp

terminatetrails said:


> I can only speak to experience comparing Jot to MJ2.  There is no comparison IMHO.  MJ2 has that smooth tubey goodness that makes Jot feel a bit sterile to me (not bad, just cleaned up).  If Lyr 3 is approaching MJ2 territory (or surpassing it!! as some on here seem to indicate), I would not worry about going balanced.  You will get full power from Lyr 3.  If I were starting from scratch and wasn't already so far down this balanced rabbit hole, I might change course myself.  But hey, with MJ2/Gumby I have a premium stack for one place, and with Jumby I have a portable mb amp that is transportable and I don't have to worry about breaking tubes.  It literally travels in my gym bag.
> Bourbon of the moment: Blade and Bow, Louisville, KY



Many thanks


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> Sorry... I mean the comparison between them...


I have 1/4" and XLR cables for my headphones.   Mostly, I use a XLR to 1/4" adapter I made, that way I can keep the XLR cable plugged in to the headphones.   So, then you just plug the headphone in to whichever amp.  Makes swapping and comparing easy.

Beyond that, it's a lot simpler than you'd think.   I've owned the Jot for quite a while.   I listen to it with one pair of headphones, the Eikon.   Thus, I've gotten to know it very very well.   Comparing it to the Lyr is easy, as the Lyr is new and the differences pop right out at you.


----------



## antoramp (Apr 16, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I have 1/4" and XLR cables for my headphones.   Mostly, I use a XLR to 1/4" adapter I made, that way I can keep the XLR cable plugged in to the headphones.   So, then you just plug the headphone in to whichever amp.  Makes swapping and comparing easy.
> 
> Beyond that, it's a lot simpler than you'd think.   I've owned the Jot for quite a while.   I listen to it with one pair of headphones, the Eikon.   Thus, I've gotten to know it very very well.   Comparing it to the Lyr is easy, as the Lyr is new and the differences pop right out at you.


Good to know! But sorry again  I mean a comparison between The Jotunheim Single Ended, Balanced And Lyr 3 in background noise, clarity, imaging and bass response ( I’d like to know in your opinion which is better... I’ve realised only now that in the first message I wrote “How can you compare” instead of “Can you compare”  )


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 16, 2018)

antoramp said:


> I’d like to know in your opinion which is better...


I think the lyr is better.

Better dynamics, clarity, staging.  It brings more out of the music.  I no longer have them set up side by side, so I can't give you a fresh A/B comparison.  I can say, it wasn't even close - Lyr won by a wide margin.


----------



## singingbee

wow.. just 10 hrs burn in and  the sound  gets better and better


----------



## antoramp (Apr 16, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I think the lyr is better.
> 
> Better dynamics, clarity, staging.  It brings more out of the music.  I no longer have them set up side by side, so I can't give you a fresh A/B comparison.  I can say, it wasn't even close - Lyr won by a wide margin.


That is what I want to hear! Thanks


----------



## antoramp

Buying advise: is there a good tube for the Lyr 3 that focuses more on the bass range and with soft Highs ( but I mean: not inexistent ) under 100 dollars? I saw some post about the RCAs that could have this sound characteristics but I’m totally new with tube amps and maybe I’m wrong .
Thank You


----------



## Motocrossman24

antoramp said:


> Buying advise: is there a good tube for the Lyr 3 that focuses more on the bass range and with soft Highs ( but I mean: not inexistent ) under 100 dollars? I saw some post about the RCAs that could have this sound characteristics but I’m totally new with tube amps and maybe I’m wrong .
> Thank You



Rca tubes are the warmest I have tried, and anything from the 50s-60s is worth buying from them imo, they started to decline in quality into the 70s for just about all then manufactures...that said, I would stop trying to over think all this “warmth” or “bright” bs...I too thought I wanted a warm tube when I started out and after trying 5-6 different tubes I ended up with a sylvania 6sn7wgt that is in no way a warm tube but it’s sound is just amazing with my setup...I would suggest buying 3-4 vintage tubes to try and see what you like, my suggestion would be any 1950-60s rca(about 30$), a vintage Tung Sol(about 40-50$) a sylvania chrome dome or 6sn7wgt(30-50$) and a Raytheon gtb (30-40$). But I wouldn’t get anything until you buy the amp and try the stock tube...the stock new production Tung Sol sounds fantastic and for most people will be all they ever want or need...this amp doesn’t change drastically  with different tubes like some other amps do, and if your new to tubes I would just enjoy what you bought, you won’t be disappointed as the amp comes. Even comparing my warmest rca to my brightest Tung Sol the difference is minimal and you really need to pay attention to hear the subtle differences, the difference is there but not to the point you may expect.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Tube rolling is a whole separate addiction in itself, I spent almost as much on tubes as I did for the amp before the amp even arrived, and if I would have known how good the stock tube would have sounded I probably wouldn’t have bought any, or maybe only a few we’ll selected tubes. 1/2 the tubes I bought will end up sitting on a desk collecting dust forever, not cuz they’re bad, but you’ll prob find 1-2 tubes you enjoy n just listen to those...so I’d advise against tube rolling before you have even heard the amp personally. Many have said the stock Tung Sol is in their top 3 favorite tubes, some even having the stock cheap tube in their favorites...this amp just flat out sounds great always.


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> Rca tubes are the warmest I have tried, and anything from the 50s-60s is worth buying from them imo, they started to decline in quality into the 70s for just about all then manufactures...that said, I would stop trying to over think all this “warmth” or “bright” bs...I too thought I wanted a warm tube when I started out and after trying 5-6 different tubes I ended up with a sylvania 6sn7wgt that is in no way a warm tube but it’s sound is just amazing with my setup...I would suggest buying 3-4 vintage tubes to try and see what you like, my suggestion would be any 1950-60s rca(about 30$), a vintage Tung Sol(about 40-50$) a sylvania chrome dome or 6sn7wgt(30-50$) and a Raytheon gtb (30-40$). But I wouldn’t get anything until you buy the amp and try the stock tube...the stock new production Tung Sol sounds fantastic and for most people will be all they ever want or need...this amp doesn’t change drastically  with different tubes like some other amps do, and if your new to tubes I would just enjoy what you bought, you won’t be disappointed as the amp comes. Even comparing my warmest rca to my brightest Tung Sol the difference is minimal and you really need to pay attention to hear the subtle differences, the difference is there but not to the point you may expect.


Thumbs up! Thank you very much


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> Tube rolling is a whole separate addiction in itself, I spent almost as much on tubes as I did for the amp before the amp even arrived, and if I would have known how good the stock tube would have sounded I probably wouldn’t have bought any, or maybe only a few we’ll selected tubes. 1/2 the tubes I bought will end up sitting on a desk collecting dust forever, not cuz they’re bad, but you’ll prob find 1-2 tubes you enjoy n just listen to those...so I’d advise against tube rolling before you have even heard the amp personally. Many have said the stock Tung Sol is in their top 3 favorite tubes, some even having the stock cheap tube in their favorites...this amp just flat out sounds great always.


In fact my idea was to buy the amp with the stock tube and have another one like the RCAs I was talking about just to have another “colour” of the sound of the amp


----------



## lentoviolento

what's the difference between tung sol and the stock one?


----------



## chef8489

Talked to Schiit and here is what they said when i was asking about the bifrost vs built in multibit. "The only DAC we recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil. The DAC (The Analog Devices AD5547". They dont recommend leaving on the other multibit dacs including the modi multibit or the bifrost. I was comparing my current setup the modi multibit/ vali 2 to the bimbi/ lyr 3.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> But *I wouldn’t get anything until you buy the amp and try the stock tube*...the stock new production Tung Sol sounds fantastic and for most people will be all they ever want or need


^^ This.  ^^   

I can say it over and over again, and yet I know it won't stop people from loading up on megabuck tubes _before they even get to hear the amp_, but it's true.   Try the Tung Sol tube and the NOS russian tube.   Try them, decide where you want to go from there.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> ^^ This.  ^^
> 
> I can say it over and over again, and yet I know it won't stop people from loading up on megabuck tubes _before they even get to hear the amp_, but it's true.   Try the Tung Sol tube and the NOS russian tube.   Try them, decide where you want to go from there.


Really good advice!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 16, 2018)

lentoviolento said:


> what's the difference between tung sol and the stock one?


The NOS Russian tube is a great all around performer.   Has a nice balance to energy and detail without getting in your face about it.    The new TS tube is more in your face.  It presents a little brighter and revealing sound, and has loads of impact. 

I'd like to reiterate - the stock Russian NOS tube really is a fantastic match for the Lyr 3.  Don't sell that tube short, or think it's going to be crap just because it's cheap.   If it was all I had, I'd still be extremely satisfied with the Lyr.   I'd suggest people start there, and decide what they want to improve (if anything) and then do your homework and make an educated decision.

For me, I found a tube that sounds similar to the stock NOS, but with a more rich tone in the mids - the Raytheon tube I posted a while back.


----------



## JoeKickass

chef8489 said:


> Talked to Schiit and here is what they said when i was asking about the bifrost vs built in multibit. "The only DAC we recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil. The DAC (The Analog Devices AD5547". *They dont recommend leaving on the other multibit dacs including the modi multibit or the bifrost.* I was comparing my current setup the modi multibit/ vali 2 to the bimbi/ lyr 3.


This is the first time I've heard that, I wonder why they don't recommend it? We should get more people to email Schiit for confirmation, it certainly sounds noticeably better...

I think almost everyone with a Mimby or Bimby leaves it on 24/7, hopefully we're not shortening the life drastically or anything like that.


----------



## davidimdpt

I emailed them right after this post. I've been leaving my bimby on 24/7


----------



## Wes S

JoeKickass said:


> This is the first time I've heard that, I wonder why they don't recommend it? We should get more people to email Schiit for confirmation, it certainly sounds noticeably better...
> 
> I think almost everyone with a Mimby or Bimby leaves it on 24/7, hopefully we're not shortening the life drastically or anything like that.


I have emailed them about this in the past, and they said you can leave it on 24/7 or turn it off and on, during each use.  Don't expect Schiit to give opinions about their gear, with email responses.  Schiit is straight to the point with their answers.


----------



## JohnBal

I recall Baldr saying he always leaves all of his solid state gear on. Always has. He also indicated that the multibit gear sounds better left on. He is the designer. But of course not a requirement.


----------



## davidimdpt

Straight from Schiit.
"It's up to you. The only DAC we truly recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil, however you can feel free to leave the Bifrost Multibit on 24/7 if you'd like. It will not reduce it's quality, performance, or lifespan. "


----------



## ProfFalkin

chef8489 said:


> "The only DAC we recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil. The DAC (The Analog Devices AD5547". They dont recommend leaving on the other multibit dacs including the modi multibit or the bifrost.



... is quite different than...



davidimdpt said:


> "It's up to you. The only DAC we truly recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil, however you can feel free to leave the Bifrost Multibit on 24/7 if you'd like. It will not reduce it's quality, performance, or lifespan. "



I believe there is nothing wrong with leaving it on.   Experience tells me this is fine.  Everything I've read from Mike and Jason indicates this is fine.

This is fine.


----------



## JohnBal

Here are some links to the designers feelings on warm up and leaving equipment on. For reference only...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tho...ink-about-stuff.693798/page-228#post-11460529

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-322#post-11214022
I hope the links work...


----------



## jamesofla80

Been seeing all the positive reception you guys have been saying about the new lyr 3 has me getting the upgrade itch. Given I just recently acquired a pair of Aeon Open's wanted to get your thoughts if the Lyr3 might be a better match then my existing Lake People G109-A. Anybody ever compare a Lake vs Schiit? Do you think its a worthwhile upgrade or more of a lateral move? 

In addition, I use a Rega Dac and wondering if I should just consolidate the Lake/Rega combo into a new Lyr3/Multibit option. Happy with my current setup with the HD650 but will say I was pretty impressed listening to the Aeon/Lyr3 at Canjam two weeks ago. Just hard to say if it was a vast improvement over my current rig. Love to get your thoughts.


----------



## Kyle140

Has anyone stuck a Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z, allegedly electrically identical to a 6SN7, have this tube kicking around in my DV 336 and would be curious how it would play with a LYR 3 as i wait patiently for mine to show up.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 16, 2018)

Kyle140 said:


> Has anyone stuck a Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z, allegedly electrically identical to a 6SN7, have this tube kicking around in my DV 336 and would be curious how it would play with a LYR 3 as i wait patiently for mine to show up.



People have put them into the Freya On YouTube, which I believe takes the same tubes, either way, it’s electrically the same as a 6sn7 so there wouldn’t be any issues unless the tube is faulty. Iv heard mixed reviews about the tube so I haven’t personally invested the money into trying one, they’re quite damn expensive for a Chinese made tube.
You will most likely need a socket saver in place to use the psvane/Shuguang tubes as I’m not sure the opening is big enough to clear the glass.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Just tried a Raytheon vt231 in the lyr3 and it’s nothing short of amazing. Similar mid range and top end to the sylvania 6sn7wgt that is/was my favorite, but maybe slightly less in your face. The Raytheon is a bit more airy and has a better sound stage. It also has a much stronger bass presence. Honestly not sure what I prefer more between the Raytheon vt231 and the sylvania wgt. Going to give both a lot of play time I can say that.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I hesitate to answer as I haven't heard enough of the Aeon opens to know, but reading other sites it seems to be a good fit.


Motocrossman24 said:


> Just tried a Raytheon vt231 in the lyr3 and it’s nothing short of amazing. Similar mid range and top end to the sylvania 6sn7wgt that is/was my favorite, but maybe slightly less in your face. The Raytheon is a bit more airy and has a better sound stage. It also has a much stronger bass presence. Honestly not sure what I prefer more between the Raytheon vt231 and the sylvania wgt. Going to give both a lot of play time I can say that.


Snap a pic of those tubes for us please?


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> I hesitate to answer as I haven't heard enough of the Aeon opens to know, but reading other sites it seems to be a good fit.
> 
> Snap a pic of those tubes for us please?



Gimme a bit, Raytheon is scorching hot atm


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> I hesitate to answer as I haven't heard enough of the Aeon opens to know, but reading other sites it seems to be a good fit.
> 
> Snap a pic of those tubes for us please?



Left is the sylvania 6sn7wgt and right is the raytheon vt231


----------



## JohnBal

That Raytheon is a favorite of mine too. Right now though, the Sylvania 1952, same era as the bad boy but with 2 holes punched in one side of the plate and 5 holes in the other side of the plate, like this one:




Very even and powerful with my headphones. Really makes my AQ Nighthawks sing like nothing I have heard yet. I still have several more to try though. But so far, this is the one to beat.


----------



## ProfFalkin

1 more tube incoming then I'm calling it quits.  (For now.)


----------



## Motocrossman24

What tube is that?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Motocrossman24 said:


> Just tried a Raytheon vt231 in the lyr3 and it’s nothing short of amazing. Similar mid range and top end to the sylvania 6sn7wgt that is/was my favorite, but maybe slightly less in your face. The Raytheon is a bit more airy and has a better sound stage. It also has a much stronger bass presence. Honestly not sure what I prefer more between the Raytheon vt231 and the sylvania wgt. Going to give both a lot of play time I can say that.



I just dropped a Raytheon VT-231 in, its very clean and clear, first time I’ve ever heard the crowd singing along with the Dead’s St. Stephen (Filmore West, 69). Though it may be too much of a good thing, perhaps it’s a tad bright, though I’ll let it cook for a day or two, then review it again. For now I’m enjoying pick8ng up on those little details I hadn’t heard on familiar music.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> 1 more tube incoming then I'm calling it quits.  (For now.)



Famous last words !


----------



## Motocrossman24

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I just dropped a Raytheon VT-231 in, its very clean and clear, first time I’ve ever heard the crowd singing along with the Dead’s St. Stephen (Filmore West, 69). Though it may be too much of a good thing, perhaps it’s a tad bright, though I’ll let it cook for a day or two, then review it again. For now I’m enjoying pick8ng up on those little details I hadn’t heard on familiar music.



Interesting, I found the vt231 a bit less bright then the sylvania wgt. Which was a little refreshing, I do love the details it’s able to produce, which I have yet to hear on any other tube.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> What tube is that?


Might be another Westinghouse, might be a side getter RCA.  Nothing expensive, but I have it on good authority they are both very good.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Warming up to the Raytheon, the soundstage is huuuuuugggggggeeeee! Still listening to the Dead, “Eyes of the World” San Francisco, 90, the Sax is in the next room to the left, the keyboards in another to the right.


----------



## JamesCanada

So, you guy's have been more than helpful!
I am saving up for this baby as of right now.
That being said, pardon my ignorance... Do tubes burn out like light bulbs or do they last a hyper long time?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

JamesCanada said:


> So, you guy's have been more than helpful!
> I am saving up for this baby as of right now.
> That being said, pardon my ignorance... Do tubes burn out like light bulbs or do they last a hyper long time?



They do, but you should get 1000’s of hours of use prior to that burn out, though I’ve had them “blow” at a much faster rate.


----------



## ProfFalkin

JamesCanada said:


> So, you guy's have been more than helpful!
> I am saving up for this baby as of right now.
> That being said, pardon my ignorance... Do tubes burn out like light bulbs or do they last a hyper long time?


Some military type tubes are rated at 10,000 hours - which, frankly, is crap imo.   Your average tube should be about 2k hours, probably more.   Some amps drive tubes to specs, others don't drive the tubes that hard at all.  So it differs depending on the amp they are in as well.

I would expect the average tube to last 2 or 3 years for the average person who listens to the system for a few hours a day.   

Of course, you never know.   There are a ton of shady tube sellers out there, so your bright and shiny NOS tube could have 1500 hours on it.   Some tubes could just be prone to early failure due to age or construction.   So hard to say.   One benefit of the Lyr 3 - Tubes are often sold in matched pairs.  You get a backup for only double the price as a single.   What a deal!


----------



## JamesCanada

Thanks for the input.
I have a few headphones: HD 6XX, Oppo PM-3, HD 598 SR, I was looking into either Aeon Flow Open or Audeze LCD2C as a next pair. 
My question ,am I purchasing over my level of equipment?
Or will this Amp outlast my gear for a few years to come?
Also, you recommend getting the Dac Module for a complete setup if I don't already have a dedicated Dac?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

JamesCanada said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I have a few headphones: HD 6XX, Oppo PM-3, HD 598 SR, I was looking into either Aeon Flow Open or Audeze LCD2C as a next pair.
> My question ,am I purchasing over my level of equipment?
> Or will this Amp outlast my gear for a few years to come?
> Also, you recommend getting the Dac Module for a complete setup if I don't already have a dedicated Dac?



Can’t speak to the onboard DAC since I haven’t heard one, but I’m a big believer in dedicated power sources for amps and DACs. On the longevity of the Lyr 3, Head Fi is a bit like an addictive drug, so my condolences to your wallet . I sold two amps that are quite a bit more expensive, because I prefer my Abyss and Focal Clear more on the Lyr 3.


----------



## Motocrossman24

JamesCanada said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I have a few headphones: HD 6XX, Oppo PM-3, HD 598 SR, I was looking into either Aeon Flow Open or Audeze LCD2C as a next pair.
> My question ,am I purchasing over my level of equipment?
> Or will this Amp outlast my gear for a few years to come?
> Also, you recommend getting the Dac Module for a complete setup if I don't already have a dedicated Dac?



The lyr3 is an amazing amp, it sounds great with my he560(should be similar to aeons) and 400i and Iv tried HD600 and grados on it and all sound great. I’m sure you could easily be satisfied with 1000+$ cans with the lyr3...I bought mine with the multibit dac module and it sounds great, is simple to use and I have zero complaints with it. Me and a friend compared it to his much more expensive mojo dac and both of us preferred the internal multibit card to the mojo. Some prefer using a dedicated schiit multibit dac like the modi or Bifrost multibit so that they can leave them running 24/7. It’s kinda a personal preference thing I guess, so you want a simple all in one solution that takes up little room, or the ability to leave the multibit dac powered 24/7 for a bit better sound quality immediately...the sound quality is still very good on cold starts but as the dac and amp warm up it definately sounds a bit more fluid and detailed, hard to say if it’s the dac warming or the amp/tube warming, I’m sure it’s a bit of both.


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> Might be another Westinghouse, might be a side getter RCA.  Nothing expensive, but I have it on good authority they are both very good.



I have one of the side getter rca’s. It is one of my favorite tubes. It’s very warm and laid back in comparison to the wgt and vt231 I’m into at the moment.


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> Left is the sylvania 6sn7wgt and right is the raytheon vt231



Interesting.  I found the Raytheon VT-231 virtually unlistenable in my Lyr3 with a treble that sliced my ears to shreds.  Yours has T-shaped plates.  The one I was listening to has flat plates.  The 2 on the left below have T-shaped plates like yours, the 3 on the right have the flat plates.  I'll burn in one with the T-shaped plates and give it a listen.  Sounds like it may be a completely different animal. Thanks for the photo!!


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Warming up to the Raytheon, the soundstage is huuuuuugggggggeeeee! Still listening to the Dead, “Eyes of the World” San Francisco, 90, the Sax is in the next room to the left, the keyboards in another to the right.



Got a pic of that tube by chance?  Love to see what the plate structure looks like.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 17, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Got a pic of that tube by chance?  Love to see what the plate structure looks like.



Yea I was told the later versions of the Raytheon vt231 are harsh, the one I have almost looks like a 2 hole bad boy minus the flashing. It could also be that I’m using open back cans vs your closed, which may accentuate a gnarly treble if there is one.


----------



## Doneko

Motocrossman24 said:


> Me and a friend compared it to his much more expensive mojo dac and both of us preferred the internal multibit card to the mojo.



The Chord Mojo is a $550 DAC+Amp combo, so I'm not sure why you thought it was much more expensive. The Lyr 3 + Multibit DAC is $700. I actually use a Mojo with my Elears, but I'm wondering if the Lyr 3 Multibit card would be a significant upgrade. The Elear's are easy to drive, I'm not sure how much they would benefit from the extra power of the Lyr 3. 

Which do you think would be greater upgrade in SQ for me?
1. Changing from Apple Music AAC 256 streaming to Tidal MQA
2. Changing form the Mojo to the Lyr3


----------



## JohnBal

bcowen said:


> Interesting.  I found the Raytheon VT-231 virtually unlistenable in my Lyr3 with a treble that sliced my ears to shreds.  Yours has T-shaped plates.  The one I was listening to has flat plates.  The 2 on the left below have T-shaped plates like yours, the 3 on the right have the flat plates.  I'll burn in one with the T-shaped plates and give it a listen.  Sounds like it may be a completely different animal. Thanks for the photo!!


Mine is definitely a T plate, and I think it sounds great also. Might be the plate structure that is making the difference like you say. Powerful bass and yes, a large stage. I thought it sounded just a bit too forward compared to my current favorite, Sylvania, which I thought separates instruments in the depth perspective a bit better and is a smidge more delicate in the treble.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Doneko said:


> The Chord Mojo is a $550 DAC+Amp combo, so I'm not sure why you thought it was much more expensive. The Lyr 3 + Multibit DAC is $700. I actually use a Mojo with my Elears, but I'm wondering if the Lyr 3 Multibit card would be a significant upgrade. The Elear's are easy to drive, I'm not sure how much they would benefit from the extra power of the Lyr 3.
> 
> Which do you think would be greater upgrade in SQ for me?
> 1. Changing from Apple Music AAC 256 streaming to Tidal MQA
> 2. Changing form the Mojo to the Lyr3



While yes the mojo has an amp, I wouldn’t call it an amp, it’s just a quality dac that has a large following, we only used the dac portion of the mojo in comparison, running it through the lyr3 and preferred the lyr3’s multibit dac...it’s comparing a 200$ multibit dac to a nearly 600$ delta sigma dac


----------



## Motocrossman24

Doneko said:


> The Chord Mojo is a $550 DAC+Amp combo, so I'm not sure why you thought it was much more expensive. The Lyr 3 + Multibit DAC is $700. I actually use a Mojo with my Elears, but I'm wondering if the Lyr 3 Multibit card would be a significant upgrade. The Elear's are easy to drive, I'm not sure how much they would benefit from the extra power of the Lyr 3.
> 
> Which do you think would be greater upgrade in SQ for me?
> 1. Changing from Apple Music AAC 256 streaming to Tidal MQA
> 2. Changing form the Mojo to the Lyr3



Schiit dacs do not decode mqa, so it will be done via your pc before it gets to the dac, I personally find regular tidal hifi to sound best.


----------



## riffrafff

Motocrossman24 said:


> Schiit dacs do not decode mqa, so it will be done via your pc before it gets to the dac, I personally find regular tidal hifi to sound best.



MQA?   Meh.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 17, 2018)

Standard pwm is fine with me, no need for dsd or mqa junk


----------



## Reckless95

Does anyone have a weird resonance come through your headphones from moving your mouse, or tapping the chassis? Just emailed Schiit about it.


----------



## riffrafff

Reckless95 said:


> Does anyone have a weird resonance come through your headphones from moving your mouse, or tapping the chassis? Just emailed Schiit about it.



Prolly tube microphonics...typical of most tube amps...


----------



## Motocrossman24

Could be usb power supply issue too, you may need a wyred


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> Schiit dacs do not decode mqa, so it will be done via your pc before it gets to the dac, I personally find regular tidal hifi to sound best.



_"I personally find regular tidal hifi to sound best."
_
Me too.


----------



## bcowen

JohnBal said:


> Mine is definitely a T plate, and I think it sounds great also. Might be the plate structure that is making the difference like you say. Powerful bass and yes, a large stage. I thought it sounded just a bit too forward compared to my current favorite, Sylvania, which I thought separates instruments in the depth perspective a bit better and is a smidge more delicate in the treble.



Thanks.  Good to know.


----------



## bcowen

riffrafff said:


> Prolly tube microphonics...typical of most tube amps...



I agree...likely a microphonic tube.  Typical of a tube amp?  Yup, if you use microphonic tubes in them.


----------



## Doneko

OK, I wasn't focusing on MQA, just on moving towards lossless or hi-res audio. MQA is just the means to stream that.



Motocrossman24 said:


> While yes the mojo has an amp, I wouldn’t call it an amp, it’s just a quality dac that has a large following, we only used the dac portion of the mojo in comparison, running it through the lyr3 and preferred the lyr3’s multibit dac...it’s comparing a 200$ multibit dac to a nearly 600$ delta sigma dac



It's not an amp, and it's not just a quality dac, it's a portable DAC/amp. It's very capable to drive the my 80 Ohm Elear. Also it's not an off the shelf delta-sigma, its a custom FPGA... I guess the only way to tell how much difference the Lyr 3 would make, is to listen to it. I'm hesitant to rder one, because I'm very happy with the Mojo.


----------



## riffrafff

bcowen said:


> I agree...likely a microphonic tube.  Typical of a tube amp?  Yup, if you use microphonic tubes in them.



Mayhaps I have cheap tubes.  lol.


----------



## EagleWings

Doneko said:


> It's not an amp, and it's not just a quality dac, it's a portable DAC/amp. It's very capable to drive the my 80 Ohm Elear. Also it's not an off the shelf delta-sigma, its a custom FPGA... I guess the only way to tell how much difference the Lyr 3 would make, is to listen to it. I'm hesitant to rder one, because I'm very happy with the Mojo.



As much as I love the Chord products for their Digital to Analog conversion, their analog section is not great. I agree it is really a very simple analog section to retain transparency. But what they lack is power, macro-dynamics and soundstage. Lyr 3 provides better sub-bass extension, macro-dynamics and stage compared to the Hugo 2. I do lose a touch of transparency and the total dark background once I introduce the Lyr 3 between the Hugo2 and my headphone. But its a tradeoff to get the aspects that only desktop amps can provide.

As to whether the which DAC between the Mojo and multiunit DAC is better, it can be a matter of preference.


----------



## JeffA

Has anyone used the Lyr 3 with IEMs? Curious to know whether there is hiss/noise.


----------



## EagleWings

JeffA said:


> Has anyone used the Lyr 3 with IEMs? Curious to know whether there is hiss/noise.



It hisses only with sensitive IEMs. I get almost zero hiss on my Sennheiser IE80S as it is not too sensitive. My EE Phantom is a sensitive IEM and picks up hiss rather easily, when connected to powerful sources. When connected to the Lyr 3 (running stock TungSol 6SN7) on Low Gain, there is a faint hiss. It is the same level of hiss I get when I connect it to my Lotoo Paw Gold and Hugo 2. It isn't loud, but can be heard during silent passages in the music. Whether it will bother you, or not, is kind of subjective.

But I can tell you, that I love my IEMs on the Lyr 3. The amp provides a super spacious stage and dynamics that I have not heard on my portable DAPs. If your IEM is not so sensitive, then you shouldn't worry. But the High Gain is definitely a no-go for IEMs.

Hope that helps!


----------



## EagleWings

@JeffA , looks like you recently picked up a Legend X. Legend X is not as sensitive as the Phantom. So you should be good.


----------



## JeffA

Yes, have the Legend X and am curious to see how it would sound driven by a tube in the chain. Might give Lyr 3 a try based on your experience. Using Rupert Neve right now.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Doneko said:


> OK, I wasn't focusing on MQA, just on moving towards lossless or hi-res audio. MQA is just the means to stream that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an amp, and it's not just a quality dac, it's a portable DAC/amp. It's very capable to drive the my 80 Ohm Elear. Also it's not an off the shelf delta-sigma, its a custom FPGA... I guess the only way to tell how much difference the Lyr 3 would make, is to listen to it. I'm hesitant to rder one, because I'm very happy with the Mojo.



I don’t think you understand what I was saying...I was simply saying me and a friend compared his mojo through the lyr3 back to back with the lyr3’s internal multibit card and we both preferred the schiit in said situation...I’m fully away of what the mojo is. And it’s a great dac...but when used just as a dac, I think the schiit multibit products are better.


----------



## chef8489

I am really needing to get the Multibit Lyr 3 and sell my Vali 2 and Modi Multibit.


----------



## Motocrossman24

chef8489 said:


> I am really needing to get the Multibit Lyr 3 and sell my Vali 2 and Modi Multibit.


If you already have the Modi Multibit, it may be better then buying the lyr with internal multibit since you can’t leave it on all the time...unless you want a simple all in one solution.


----------



## chef8489

Motocrossman24 said:


> If you already have the Modi Multibit, it may be better then buying the lyr with internal multibit since you can’t leave it on all the time...unless you want a simple all in one solution.


Schiit said the only one they recommend leaving on was the 24/7 is the Yggdrasil so I am not worried about leaving on the other multibits anymore. Although leaving on the others will not degrade them it is not needed.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Ehh, schiit gave a staged customer service answer via email imo...the designer of the multibit products has said quite a few times that he leaves all his multibit products on. It’s not needed obviously as they have units that simply can’t stay on like the lyr3. But it definately helps with the sound quality.


----------



## Doneko

EagleWings said:


> As much as I love the Chord products for their Digital to Analog conversion, their analog section is not great. I agree it is really a very simple analog section to retain transparency. But what they lack is power, macro-dynamics and soundstage. Lyr 3 provides better sub-bass extension, macro-dynamics and stage compared to the Hugo 2. I do lose a touch of transparency and the total dark background once I introduce the Lyr 3 between the Hugo2 and my headphone. But its a tradeoff to get the aspects that only desktop amps can provide.



Thank you for the explanation! 

The Mojo is a small, 0.4 lbs portable gadget while the Lyr 3 is a 6 lbs desktop amp. They should be in a different leauge, I just wanted to make sure they really are. I love the idea of the Lyr 3 as a hybrid headamp with an integrated and upgradable DAC!


----------



## Motocrossman24

Doneko said:


> Thank you for the explanation!
> 
> The Mojo is a small, 0.4 lbs portable gadget while the Lyr 3 is a 6 lbs desktop amp. They should be in a different leauge, I just wanted to make sure they really are. I love the idea of the Lyr 3 as a hybrid headamp with an integrated and upgradable DAC!



The dac units between the mojo and multibit compete step by step with each other aslong as dsd and mqa aren’t important to you then it’s basically super small differences in sound quality but both are great, but as an amp, for obvious reasons they can’t be compared, ones portable and ones not. But the total package of the two imo, say when using headphones that both can power to the max with zero issues like a pair of grados, the lyr walks all over the mojo imo.


----------



## Doneko

Motocrossman24 said:


> The dac units between the mojo and multibit compete step by step with each other aslong as dsd and mqa aren’t important to you then it’s basically super small differences in sound quality but both are great, but as an amp, for obvious reasons they can’t be compared, ones portable and ones not. But the total package of the two imo, say when using headphones that both can power to the max with zero issues like a pair of grados, the lyr walks all over the mojo imo.



Thanks a lot, this makes perfect sense!


----------



## Motocrossman24

Schiit finally got the lisst tube to me today, and it’s actually not bad from early impressions. I definately don’t like it as much as my top tubes, but it has really good extension and solid bass impact(more so then any of my tubes). But it’s just lacking something that I can’t put my finger on just yet. I don’t hate it, but I’m not In love with it like a few tubes I have. Either way, something to experiment with. It’s nice that this amp is so versatile. Iv still yet to use a tube that I just couldn’t stand...some I just prefer more then others.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Doneko said:


> Thank you for the explanation!
> 
> The Mojo is a small, 0.4 lbs portable gadget while the Lyr 3 is a 6 lbs desktop amp. They should be in a different leauge, I just wanted to make sure they really are. I love the idea of the Lyr 3 as a hybrid headamp with an integrated and upgradable DAC!


The mojo sounds like stale bread with fuzzy mold on it compared to the Lyr 3 + a competent source.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Your analogies are always on point prof lol


----------



## JoeKickass

Motocrossman24 said:


> If you already have the Modi Multibit, it may be better then buying the lyr with internal multibit since you can’t leave it on all the time...


Also the Mimby reportedly sounds better than the Lyr MB card and you can use an Eitr with the Mimby.

No reason to sell until you are ready for Gumby.


----------



## ProfFalkin

JoeKickass said:


> Also the Mimby reportedly sounds better than the Lyr MB card and you can use an Eitr with the Mimby.
> 
> No reason to sell until you are ready for Gumby.


I agree.

My Lyr3 has the MB card, and I use the lyr with the Mimby because it sounds better.  

Keep the Mimby.  Save the $200.  Or, get an Eitr for it.  Or a nice headphone cable.  Or whatever else.  The Mimby is tiny.  Having the space isn't really a valid argument when you can stack the Mimby on top the Lyr.  Just saying.


----------



## JamminVMI

lentoviolento said:


> dove l'hai visto a 580 in italia? proaudio non lo ha ancora a listino e a maggio quando sarà disponibile in italia si suppone costerà quanto costa adesso il lyr2 ossia 490....
> comunque il jot io lo eviterei perchè devi usarlo in bilanciato e per ogni cuffia devi poi avere il cavo terminato in bilanciato.. altri soldi


No necesitá usarlo il jot in bilanciato... Scusí per la mia italiano.
Hope to heck I said you don’t have to use jot balanced, but the rust is so thick on mt italian, I might have told him to run over it with his car...


----------



## chef8489 (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeKickass said:


> Also the Mimby reportedly sounds better than the Lyr MB card and you can use an Eitr with the Mimby.
> 
> No reason to sell until you are ready for Gumby.


The mimby uses the same multibit dac as the lyr and bifrost.


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> Schiit finally got the lisst tube to me today, and it’s actually not bad from early impressions. I definately don’t like it as much as my top tubes, but it has really good extension and solid bass impact(more so then any of my tubes). But it’s just lacking something that I can’t put my finger on just yet. I don’t hate it, but I’m not In love with it like a few tubes I have. Either way, something to experiment with. It’s nice that this amp is so versatile. Iv still yet to use a tube that I just couldn’t stand...some I just prefer more then others.


Do the LISST tubes give a blacker background compared to the normal tubes?


----------



## lentoviolento

JamminVMI said:


> No necesitá usarlo il jot in bilanciato... Scusí per la mia italiano.
> Hope to heck I said you don’t have to use jot balanced, but the rust is so thick on mt italian, I might have told him to run over it with his car...



Don't worry  your italian is better than my english. 
I think that if you buy a balanced amp you buy it to use the balanced out that is more powerful.. I tried a pair of modded beyer. With the balanced out they shined, one of the best bass i have ever heard, with single ended they sounded with half the musicality. Tried with the internal dac and the mojo i had back then


----------



## winders (Apr 18, 2018)

chef8489 said:


> The mimby uses the same multibit dac as the lyr and bifrost.



But the Mimby implementation is different and sounds better according to people whose ears I trust. Also, the 16 bit multibit DACs sound crappy cold, sound pretty good after being on for an hour, and sound their best after being on for a few hours.


----------



## Motocrossman24

antoramp said:


> Do the LISST tubes give a blacker background compared to the normal tubes?



I didn’t listen too long with it tonight, but it was a bit better from what I remember, I’ll give it some more play time this weekend when I have time n see what I think overall...granted the things brand new and probably needs to run for a while, I’ll throw it in and run the amp non stop for a day n see if the sq is on par with a good tube...it came out relitively quickly tonight as it just didn’t have anything on the tubes I have.


----------



## Motocrossman24

People are just trying to save you money from buying escentially a more limited version of what you already have...there’s rlly no argument needed. The mimby is the same dac with more features and better implementation. No ones saying the lyr3’s dac sucks, but yours is simply better...and the 200$ you save can buy you something nice.


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> I didn’t listen too long with it tonight, but it was a bit better from what I remember, I’ll give it some more play time this weekend when I have time n see what I think overall...granted the things brand new and probably needs to run for a while, I’ll throw it in and run the amp non stop for a day n see if the sq is on par with a good tube...it came out relitively quickly tonight as it just didn’t have anything on the tubes I have.


Ok thank you!


----------



## JamesCanada

Anyone try the Lyr3 with Audeze LCD2C or the Aeon Flow Open/Closed?

Thanks


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> Schiit finally got the lisst tube to me today, and it’s actually not bad from early impressions. I definately don’t like it as much as my top tubes, but it has really good extension and solid bass impact(more so then any of my tubes). But it’s just lacking something that I can’t put my finger on just yet. I don’t hate it, but I’m not In love with it like a few tubes I have. Either way, something to experiment with. It’s nice that this amp is so versatile. Iv still yet to use a tube that I just couldn’t stand...some I just prefer more then others.



It's missing *soul *(with due credit to ProfFalkin for his expertly coined phrase on that a while back).


----------



## bcowen

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone try the Lyr3 with Audeze LCD2C or the Aeon Flow Open/Closed?
> 
> Thanks



I just got a pair of Aeon Closed.  Only a brief listen last night which was very encouraging.  More later after I get everything (including my ears) all settled in.


----------



## FLTWS

I have the LISST's for my MJ2 and all of the previous comments vs tubes apply to it as well.


----------



## ProfFalkin

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone try the Lyr3 with Audeze LCD2C or the Aeon Flow Open/Closed?
> 
> Thanks


People covered this a while back in the thread.


----------



## JamesCanada

ProfFalkin said:


> People covered this a while back in the thread.



I appreciate your honesty, but looking through roughly 400 messages is very time consuming and not too productive.
I searched, found nothing, so I ask.
Thanks


----------



## Wes S (Apr 18, 2018)

It is time consuming to make double post as well.  Found this in 2 seconds -  Post # 170

I have yet to read about a pairing, that did not go well with Lyr 3.  That goes for tubes and headphones.  Lyr 3 is a really good amp, and a different tube can fine tune it, to work with any headphones.


----------



## JamminVMI

lentoviolento said:


> Don't worry  your italian is better than my english.
> I think that if you buy a balanced amp you buy it to use the balanced out that is more powerful.. I tried a pair of modded beyer. With the balanced out they shined, one of the best bass i have ever heard, with single ended they sounded with half the musicality. Tried with the internal dac and the mojo i had back then


Thanks for the vote of confidence in my italian! Since Lyr 3 has much more power, single-ended, it would be interesting to see if those modded beyers are as good!


----------



## chef8489

JamminVMI said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence in my italian! Since Lyr 3 has much more power, single-ended, it would be interesting to see if those modded beyers are as good!


I am sure the bayers will sound amazing on the Lyr 3.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> I have the LISST's for my MJ2 and all of the previous comments vs tubes apply to it as well.



Any feedback on the Abyss and the Lyr 3, looking forward to reading your thoughts!


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 18, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Any feedback on the Abyss and the Lyr 3, looking forward to reading your thoughts!



Still burning in. Gave a brief listen after about 10 hours. Just using stock Tung-Sol.

Huge images (this could be interesting when I get around to trying it with Utopia). Excellent bass, pretty smooth top, voices could be very special.

No mechanical noise issues of any sort; the power toggle gives a nice "click" at turn on, about 40 seconds later a soft "click" as the relay opens.

I turn it on and off twice a day, I like to let it go cold for 2 hours halfway through the day. I've been listening closely with no background noise and I've heard no noise from the tube either at initial turn on or immediately after turnoff.

I do note that the tube socket base is not parallel with the metal cabinet, (or maybe it's the circuit board) but the tube lists a little to one side, the leaning tower of tube.Same issue with 1 of the 2 tubes on my MJ2. Otherwise the unit as delivered is immaculate.

It runs a lot cooler than I expected, definitely cooler than my MJ2 or Ragnarok, no problem placing my hands close around, but not touching, the tube itself. There's not much heat coming off the top of the tube at any time. My Jot runs relatively cool as well, I would have expect the lesser surface area of these smaller sized enclosures to not dissipate heat as well but that's not what I experience.

I'm at about 40 hours at the end of today, haven't been able to spend any time listening yesterday (on the road on and off most of it) and I'm awaiting friends now who will be here shortly to view a couple movies with me and then out for dinner. I'll do some listening tomorrow and by the end of the day I'll be at 50 hours. Then I get serious.

Got some NOS tubes in the mail coming to me from 2 different sources (cause that's what I do - rolll them tubes - a part of the fun for me). But I really want to shake down this LYR with the stock tube for the second 50 hours which will be all listening and take some time to get through. Keeping track is a PITA, wish somebody would come up with an add on hobbs meter for electronic devices.

I'm sure I won't be sending this back. I want to be in a good position when Jason starts franchising Schiit'rs.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The Raytheon. 


@FLTWS , thank you, appreciate your feedback! I’m finding the Lyr 3, with the right tube, is a lovely match for the Abyss, and the Clear, as well as my various In-Ears (64Audio, Alclair, inEarz, so nothing that’s highly sensitive). I’m back to one of my “Bad Boys,” the Raytheon was a tad too hot, though it had a huge, airy soundstage, and thunderous bass.


----------



## FLTWS

@ Wildcatsare1*
*
A Raytheon and possibly an RCA I have yet to order*.*
Got some Sylvania, CBS 5692, A Mil-Spec Tung-Sol*, *and an early Russian 6H8C in transit*.*


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> @ Wildcatsare1
> 
> A Raytheon and possibly an RCA I have yet to order*.*
> Got some Sylvania, CBS 5692, A Mil-Spec Tung-Sol*, *and an early Russian 6H8C in transit*.*



I keep going back to a Sylvania VT-231, tall glass, most of the Bad Boy midrange, but greater clarity and bass impact.


----------



## Scott Kramer (Apr 19, 2018)

Oops, out of context after a purge it seems (see next post)... I'll write about this somewhere else. Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed a number of off-topic posts from the thread. If you would like to discuss the Schiit Eitr, here's a direct link to the thread.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

A little afternoon jam, listening to Traffic’s “Low Spark of High Heeled Boys,” vía the Lyr 3 with one of my Sylvania VT-231’s, just freaking sublime. Jason and Mike really hit it out of the park on this one!


----------



## Motocrossman24

Man, now u got me wanting to find a sylvania vt231


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> Man, now u got me wanting to find a sylvania vt231


Quick check on ebay shows them at $25 to $100 each.   The $100 per is freaking insane, and reminds me of a famous PT Barnum quote.


----------



## riffrafff

ProfFalkin said:


> Quick check on ebay shows them at $25 to $100 each.   The $100 per is freaking insane, and reminds me of a famous PT Barnum quote.



They gotta be four times more betterer than the $25 ones.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> The Raytheon.
> 
> 
> @FLTWS , thank you, appreciate your feedback! I’m finding the Lyr 3, with the right tube, is a lovely match for the Abyss, and the Clear, as well as my various In-Ears (64Audio, Alclair, inEarz, so nothing that’s highly sensitive). I’m back to one of my “Bad Boys,” the Raytheon was a tad too hot, though it had a huge, airy soundstage, and thunderous bass.



*"Raytheon was a tad too hot..."*

Flat plates.  Seems to be a moral to this story (rather than wholly defective ears on my part).     Have a T-Plate version cooking, and really interested to see how it sounds after it gets another 20 or so hours on it.

Got one of these today too....anybody tried one yet?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> Quick check on ebay shows them at $25 to $100 each.   The $100 per is freaking insane, and reminds me of a famous PT Barnum quote.




$100 is a rip off, mine was $25, with free shipping.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 18, 2018)

bcowen said:


> *"Raytheon was a tad too hot..."*
> 
> Flat plates.  Seems to be a moral to this story (rather than wholly defective ears on my part).     Have a T-Plate version cooking, and really interested to see how it sounds after it gets another 20 or so hours on it.
> 
> Got one of these today too....anybody tried one yet?


I have some flat plates that are not bright, but generally the all of the T plates I have are smoother.  There could definitely be something to your flat plate obsveration.

I haven't tried a coin base tube yet.  Curious about how it sounds.

Thanks for the pics fellas, much easier to figure out what is what.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 18, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> $100 is a rip off, mine was $25, with free shipping.



It seems they’re pricey these days, 90$ for one at audiotubes.com and even more expensive at vintagetubeservices.com seems the eBay gamble is the way to go for them right now.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Got an rca grey glass in today and a staggered plate bottom getter rca that I accidentally won on eBay for 99cents today. I think the last grey glass I got was dead, it was very quiet compared to my other tubes.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Also just snagged a sylvania vt231 for 34$ on eBay.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Apr 18, 2018)

Please can someone help me about this specification:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB

What does that mean? The -3dB? Is is that between 2 and 700 000 hz you must enter a +3 dB value in an equalizer to get a perfectly flat response? I know it doesn't make sens but why 700Khz? Is it 7000 they mean?


----------



## JohnBal

ScareDe2 said:


> Please can someone help me about this specification:
> Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
> 
> What does that mean? The -3dB? Is is that between 2 and 700 000 hz you must enter a +3 dB value in an equalizer to get a perfectly flat response? I know it doesn't make sens but why 700Khz? Is it 7000 they mean?


I'm pretty sure it means the amp will measure essentially flat in the frequencies you can hear. Unless you have some really, really good ears, 700khz... I don't think you can EQ that.


----------



## GenEricOne (Apr 18, 2018)

ScareDe2 said:


> Please can someone help me about this specification:
> Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
> 
> What does that mean? The -3dB? Is is that between 2 and 700 000 hz you must enter a +3 dB value in an equalizer to get a perfectly flat response? I know it doesn't make sens but why 700Khz? Is it 7000 they mean?


It might be clearer if it were flipped around. It'll be within 3dB from 2Hz through 700KHz and tightens up to .1dB from 20Hz through 20KHz part of the 2Hz - 700KHz range.

So it's very flat in the audible frequencies and less flat in the subsonic (2-20Hz) and ultrasonic (20KHz to 700KHz) frequencies.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Humans can’t hear lower then 20hz or higher then 20khz nor can many headphones actually produce sound that low or high...what it means is if your letting your dog listen to your music he will hear frequencies besides 20hz-20khz at 3db lower volume then at 20hz-20khz


----------



## ScareDe2 (Apr 18, 2018)

Nevermind was still confused.

But yeah... all schiit amps have the same flat frequency response within human hearing. That I understand.


----------



## chef8489

Motocrossman24 said:


> Humans can’t hear lower then 20hz or higher then 20khz nor can many headphones actually produce sound that low or high...what it means is if your letting your dog listen to your music he will hear frequencies besides 20hz-20khz at 3db lower volume then at 20hz-20khz


That is not entirely true. We use 20hz to 20khz as an average. Different people hear differently and there has been people that have heard as high as 28khz and people that can hear as low as 8-10hz.


----------



## Motocrossman24

chef8489 said:


> That is not entirely true. We use 20hz to 20khz as an average. Different people hear differently and there has been people that have heard as high as 28khz and people that can hear as low as 8-10hz.



Yes I know, you may hear 16hz-17khz and the next may hear 22hz-22khz, it’s the simple human average that the vast majority falls within +- some crazy small percentage.


----------



## chef8489 (Apr 19, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> Yes I know, you may hear 16hz-17khz and the next may hear 22hz-22khz, it’s the simple human average that the vast majority falls within +- some crazy small percentage.


Ok cool. I currently teach college and hate when people say absolutes lol like no one, never, always, etc. Its just a bad pet peeve. Thanks for aknowledging that. You are correct vast majority fall within that and usually hear lower than 20khz especially in aging. Usually has to be in a lab enviroment and not hugly common to hear above. More people hear below 20hz than can hear above 20khz.


----------



## JamminVMI

My Lyr 3 (sans module, since it will fall in after Bifrost 4490 and Loki), arrived yesterday with Tung Sol and LISST as options. Been running on the tung Sol for 24 hrs when i put on the HD6xx, and it’s really, really awesome. Nothing stands out as bright or warm, just beautifully harmonious.  We shall see how it fares down the road, and with the LISST as well.

But for now, WOW!


----------



## chef8489

JamminVMI said:


> My Lyr 3 (sans module, since it will fall in after Bifrost 4490 and Loki), arrived yesterday with Tung Sol and LISST as options. Been running on the tung Sol for 24 hrs when i put on the HD6xx, and it’s really, really awesome. Nothing stands out as bright or warm, just beautifully harmonious.  We shall see how it fares down the road, and with the LISST as well.
> 
> But for now, WOW!


Glad you like it with the hd6xx.


----------



## Dogmatrix

ScareDe2 said:


> Please can someone help me about this specification:
> Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
> 
> What does that mean? The -3dB? Is is that between 2 and 700 000 hz you must enter a +3 dB value in an equalizer to get a perfectly flat response? I know it doesn't make sens but why 700Khz? Is it 7000 they mean?


The -3db and -0.1db are just tolerances so in the wider frequency range they say it measures flat or 0 to 3db lower across the specified range . In the smaller audible range it measures effectively flat or 0db variation


----------



## JoeKickass

chef8489 said:


> That is not entirely true. We use 20hz to 20khz as an average. Different people hear differently and there has been people that have heard as high as 28khz and people that can hear as low as 8-10hz.


What? No one can hear 28khz, I've never heard of anyone that could, and 20 to 20k is always the reference range.

Now where is my Absolutes vodka...


----------



## EagleWings

*Lyr 3 - Brief Impressions:*
*
SETUP:* Mac (JRMC) > Hugo 2 > Lyr 3 (TS 6SN7) > HD800S, LCD-i4, EE Phantom, Senn IE80S

In terms of tonality, calling the Lyr 3 neutral may not be entirely accurate, as it has a bit of warmth to its tone. But to call it warm wouldn't be accurate either, as it actually sounds quite clear and transparent. But I can see people who prefer a brighter sound, describing the Lyr 3 as warm. Its warm tone originates from its smooth treble and the full-bodied mid-range, rather than from enhanced bass. The warmth and fullness in the mid-range reminds you that, it's not a pure SS amp. But it also doesn't possess a syrupy nature. So if you plan on pairing an unmodded HD800 (or don't plan on using EQ), this may not be the ideal amp. The tone shifts once you go from Low Gain to High Gain. On High Gain, the tone is a little brighter due to a brighter upper-midrange and treble. You start to notice some treble hardness and unevenness, but not exactly scratchy. I prefer my HD800S on LG and my Audeze LCD-i4 on HG. I have not tried the 6XX or a LCD 2C on the Lyr 3 yet, but I can see why those headphones would pair quite well with this amp.

Macrodynamics are really good and am still amazed at it, coming from portable audio. But I can't really tell how it compares to other amps. The bass is not super tight, but is sufficiently taut and far from what one would call as loose.  Resolution, micro-dynamics and separation are what you could expect from a $500 amp I guess. It doesn't perform to the level of my Hugo 2. The amp is not partial between instruments or vocals, so all instruments and vocals are presented with equal weight and articulation. The transparency, as stated earlier is very good. But it doesn't have a totally dark background as a result of inherent distortion and noise floor. I am really splitting hairs here and expecting this amp to perform at summit-fi level.

The soundstage is definitely quite spacious with good proportions of width, depth and height. Not that it lacks depth, but I would have preferred just a touch more depth. The amp tends to congestion once a while, due to its slightly forward placement of presentation, and the large instrument images it conjures. So a slightly larger overall stage would have also been nice. Also, the stage isn't super airy. So it relies purely on its dimensions to create the holographic feel. It does pull it off for the most part, but does skimp at times. So do not expect a colossal stage.

In terms of the power, it seems to have enough to handle most demanding planars. But it is also quiet enough that, you could plug in your IEMs and not be greeted with a hiss fest (of course, there are these special cases like the SE846 and Zeus, that would hiss out of anything). From a tonality perspective, due to its neutral-warm tone, the amp is not exactly picky about headphones. It doesn't necessrily stand out in any aspect to me. But at the same time, it doesn't seem to have any weakness that would stop me from recommending it. These attributes make the Lyr 3 a versatile amp. So if you have a mix of headphones/IEMs and were looking for an amp in the $500, Lyr 3 just might be one of the best available options out there.

P.S: Sorry for the crappy photo:


----------



## JohnBal

EagleWings said:


> *Lyr 3 - Brief Impressions:
> 
> SETUP:* Mac (JRMC) > Hugo 2 > Lyr 3 (TS 6SN7) > HD800S, LCD-i4, EE Phantom, Senn IE80S
> 
> ...


Hi. Just wondering if you have had a chance to try any different tubes. I found the tonality and stage depth change quite a bit with different tubes. I found for my Nighthawks that 1952 Sylvanias really open them up and let them spread their wings. So to speak. The stage gaining depth and layering, while overall not sounding as in my face as with some other tubes.


----------



## EagleWings

JohnBal said:


> Hi. Just wondering if you have had a chance to try any different tubes. I found the tonality and stage depth change quite a bit with different tubes. I found for my Nighthawks that 1952 Sylvanias really open them up and let them spread their wings. So to speak. The stage gaining depth and layering, while overall not sounding as in my face as with some other tubes.



Hi John, unfortunately I do not own any other tubes. I am new to the desktop-audio scene, let alone the tube amps. I am saving the tube rolling for the future, once I start to get the itch to upgrade. Thanks for the tip about the Sylvanias. I will keep that in mind. I believe @Wildcatsare1 also mentioned a tube that opened up the stage. Hoping to tube-roll sooner or later.


----------



## JohnBal

EagleWings said:


> Hi John, unfortunately I do not own any other tubes. I am new to the desktop-audio scene, let alone the tube amps. I am saving the tube rolling for the future, once I start to get the itch to upgrade. Thanks for the tip about the Sylvanias. I will keep that in mind. I believe @Wildcatsare1 also mentioned a tube that opened up the stage. Hoping to tube-roll sooner or later.


Well I think this amp sounds really fine with all the tubes I have tried. The flavors change, but I think overall this is a very palatable sounding amp.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

EagleWings said:


> Hi John, unfortunately I do not own any other tubes. I am new to the desktop-audio scene, let alone the tube amps. I am saving the tube rolling for the future, once I start to get the itch to upgrade. Thanks for the tip about the Sylvanias. I will keep that in mind. I believe @Wildcatsare1 also mentioned a tube that opened up the stage. Hoping to tube-roll sooner or later.



So far my favorites have been the Sylvania VT-231, from a couple of different vintages (I wish there was a one stop source for tube date codes!), but like @JohnBal, I haven’t found one I don’t like.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 19, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> *Lyr 3 - Brief Impressions:
> 
> SETUP:* Mac (JRMC) > Hugo 2 > Lyr 3 (TS 6SN7) > HD800S, LCD-i4, EE Phantom, Senn IE80S
> 
> ...



Nice write-up!  I'm at a bit of a disadvantage due to my very recent entry into the headphone world -- the Vali2 and the Lyr 3 are the only headphone amps I've listened to.  All my experience has been in the full-sized world of 2-channel, where one pair of output tubes in my main amp cost 2x the price of admission to the Lyr3.  But despite my lack of experience, I am greatly enjoying the Lyr from the standpoint that it really does nothing wrong for such a reasonably priced amp.  No doubt there are much better amps (with heftier price tags) out there, but in the 2-channel world reasonably priced (budget?) components are usually saddled with some pretty glaring faults and/or omissions.  Perhaps my ignorance in what a better amp can deliver is bliss, but until I hear something better I'll remain happily ignorant as the Lyr sounds good enough that I have no urge or desire to try and find something better.  Famous last words and all.


----------



## Motocrossman24

EagleWings said:


> Hi John, unfortunately I do not own any other tubes. I am new to the desktop-audio scene, let alone the tube amps. I am saving the tube rolling for the future, once I start to get the itch to upgrade. Thanks for the tip about the Sylvanias. I will keep that in mind. I believe @Wildcatsare1 also mentioned a tube that opened up the stage. Hoping to tube-roll sooner or later.



I have 2 duplicate tubes that will probably never get used, if you wanna pay shipping I can send them to you to try out(a sylvania and a rca). Impressively detailed review from someone who’s not super experienced with desktop amps.


----------



## EagleWings

Motocrossman24 said:


> I have 2 duplicate tubes that will probably never get used, if you wanna pay shipping I can send them to you to try out(a sylvania and a rca). Impressively detailed review from someone who’s not super experienced with desktop amps.



Thank you Mtm24, that is very reassuring. Also, very kind of you to let me borrow your tubes. I'd be thrilled to try them. Let me PM you for the shipping charges and details.


----------



## bcowen

Some additional tube impressions:
I finally get it with the Raytheons.    Gave the T-Plate version a try, and it's an entirely different sounding tube than the flat plate version.  I couldn't stand the flat plate (first one I tried), as the upper mids and treble just ripped holes in my ears -- hot, bright, glare-y, just unlistenable to me.  The T-Plate version is still a little aggressive in that area (to my ears), but more aptly described as having a bit of emphasis rather than being hot and awful.  Bass is tight and powerful, lots of detail in the mids, the highs are very extended, and overall dynamics are excellent.  I could see this being a go-to tube if my system was leaning a little too far to the warm side or needed a jolt of life in the highs.  Overall a nice sounding tube, but I actually prefer the regular (non-VT-231) Raytheon 6SN7GT as it's just a little smoother sounding, but giving up a bit of the bass depth and overall dynamic swing of the VT-231 in return.

Version I like (T-Plates) are the 2 on the left, version I don't (flat plates) are the 3 on the right:





RCA coin base:  Meh.  Nothing awful about it, but nothing special either.  Rather boring.  Just kind of closed-in and lifeless.  Tube tests high in transconductance, so it's not just worn out...it's just uninspiring.  It was cheap enough to satisfy my curiosity.  


 

Just bought these for cheap ($20 for the pair) on Ebay.   Curiosity time again.    I'll post back once I get them.


 

Another curiously cheap Ebay find.  I've been keeping my eye out for some oval (round) plate Tung-Sols that aren't priced into oblivion, as that version is supposed to be one of the holy grail 6SN7's like the *true* Sylvania Bad Boys (seems everyone on Ebay selling a vintage Sylvania these days is calling it a Bad Boy even though the vast majority are not).  This mouse ear version is also supposed to be quite good, and I'll post back when I get it too:


----------



## bgbkt

For those of you who are using in-build DAC modules, do you normally keep the amp off and turn is on just when you are ready to listen? This amp will be used on desk which is shared with my wife. She'll mostly use it as preamp to use with powered speaker and it will be inconvenience to turn on/off amp every time she wants to use computer considering main power switch is in back.


----------



## Motocrossman24

bgbkt said:


> For those of you who are using in-build DAC modules, do you normally keep the amp off and turn is on just when you are ready to listen? This amp will be used on desk which is shared with my wife. She'll mostly use it as preamp to use with powered speaker and it will be inconvenience to turn on/off amp every time she wants to use computer considering main power switch is in back.



Yes I turn it off every time, if I know I’m going to be listening soon, I’ll turn it on and let it warm up for an hour like when I get home from work, but your going to drastically reduce tube life span if you leave the amp on, and it will be like a mini space heater aswell. The sound isn’t bad by any means on cold starts, it just sounds a bit better when it warms up. I haven’t felt it to be an inconvenience to flip the power switch, just place it in a convenient easy to reach space, or set it up on a switchable power strip that’s within reach.


----------



## ProfFalkin

bgbkt said:


> do you normally keep the amp off and turn is on just when you are ready to listen?


Yes.  You could leave it on all day, and just turn it off at the end of the day. That is pretty much what I do for 9-10 hours a day at work.  It's off overnight, and I flip it on when i get in.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 21, 2018)

bgbkt said:


> For those of you who are using in-build DAC modules, do you normally keep the amp off and turn is on just when you are ready to listen? This amp will be used on desk which is shared with my wife. She'll mostly use it as preamp to use with powered speaker and it will be inconvenience to turn on/off amp every time she wants to use computer considering main power switch is in back.



I have the (separate) Mimby, so my Lyr 3 is amp only.  I leave the Mimby on all the time, but turn the Lyr off when I'm not using it.  Normally turn it on and let it warm up 30 minutes or so before listening.  However, that's mostly just habit with tube gear -- I've never tested the Lyr to see how long it takes after a cold start to begin sounding good.  It's ready to play as soon as the muting relay disengages, so for your wife listening to powered speakers on the desktop, she'd only have to wait about a minute** after turning it on to get sound.  I wouldn't recommend leaving it on ALL the time, but turn it on at first use of the day and turn it off before bed.  You'll get over a year's worth of life out of a tube that way (probably more), and if you stick to the Russian 6N8S from Schiit, they sound good, are durable, and only cost $10 to replace.


** I have no idea how long the Lyr is muted from a cold start.  Mine is dead silent...can't hear even a click through the 'phones when the relay closes, and I can't hear anything externally. Lucky me, huh?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 21, 2018)

I just heard a better Schiit DAC/Amp combo; one I like more than the Lyr 3/Mimby on my ZMF Eikon.

The bass was more controlled without sacrificing impact.  Tonality was perfect.  Let me say that again.  Perfect.  Staging was wide and deep. It was the best I've ever heard from those headphones.  The LFF modified HE6 was amazing though it as well.  Best dac amp combo I've heard to date.

Edit: I suppose I could tell you what the combo was.

Nah, I'll make you guys guess.


----------



## GenEricOne

ProfFalkin said:


> I just heard a better Schiit DAC/Amp combo; one I like more than the Lyr 3/Mimby on my ZMF Eikon.
> 
> The bass was more controlled without sacrificing impact.  Tonality was perfect.  Let me say that again.  Perfect.  Staging was wide and deep. It was the best I've ever heard from those headphones.  The LFF modified HE6 was amazing though it as well.  Best dac amp combo I've heard to date.


What combo?


----------



## chef8489

JoeKickass said:


> What? No one can hear 28khz, I've never heard of anyone that could, and 20 to 20k is always the reference range.
> 
> Now where is my Absolutes vodka...


Just because you have never heard of it doesnt make it not true. 20-20 is an average. There have even been cases of children with asthma being able to hear 30khz range.  Want to talk more about it we can do so in sound science and not in this thread.


----------



## Motocrossman24

ProfFalkin said:


> I just heard a better Schiit DAC/Amp combo; one I like more than the Lyr 3/Mimby on my ZMF Eikon.
> 
> The bass was more controlled without sacrificing impact.  Tonality was perfect.  Let me say that again.  Perfect.  Staging was wide and deep. It was the best I've ever heard from those headphones.  The LFF modified HE6 was amazing though it as well.  Best dac amp combo I've heard to date.
> 
> ...



I’m assuming your talking about the Asgard 3?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 21, 2018)

Yggy (a2) > Saga > Vidar.

Mind you, the Lyr 3 has great synergy with the Eikon, but this combo was killer. 

Both are better than Mj2 (going from memory), but I don't know if it's better than Rag, as I've only heard it at audio shows.

Edit:  I might have to rebuy the Saga and pick up a Vidar for my home set up.  It was that good.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Interesting, running right from speaker taps?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> Interesting, running right from speaker taps?


Yes.  The cable was custom made from YFS for it.   It had banana plugs for the +/- L and R headphone wires, but also had a 5th wire to connect to ground so the shielding in the cable wasn't free floating.   That ground wire connected to the ground lug on the Vidar chassis.   

(Cable is from Yourfinalsystem.com, they've made custom headphone cables for me in the past, good stuff and not crazy expensive.)


----------



## ProfFalkin

It also occurs to me that I posted this in the Lyr 3 thread.  I had been browsing the Eikon thread and thought I was posting there.   Mod can move these posts if desired.


----------



## JoeKickass (Apr 21, 2018)

chef8489 said:


> Just because you have never heard of it doesnt make it not true. 20-20 is an average. There have even been cases of children with asthma being able to hear 30khz range.  Want to talk more about it we can do so in sound science and not in this thread.


*Woosh* lol, maybe this will help:


chef8489 said:


> Ok cool. I currently teach college and hate when people say *absolutes *lol like *no one, never, always,* etc. Its just a bad pet peeve. Thanks for aknowledging that. You are correct vast majority fall within that and usually hear lower than 20khz especially in aging. Usually has to be in a lab enviroment and not hugly common to hear above. More people hear below 20hz than can hear above 20khz.





JoeKickass said:


> What?* No one *can hear 28khz, I've *never *heard of anyone that could, and 20 to 20k is *always *the reference range.
> 
> Now where is my *Absolutes *vodka...


----------



## chef8489

JoeKickass said:


> *Woosh* lol, maybe this will help:


Ha ha. Lol i got ya now. Yeah did not catch it till you did that. Guess i set myself up for that one.


----------



## JonPro

Has anyone been able to compare the Lyr 2 and Lyr 3? Is it worth getting the Lyr 2 now, or is the 3 really a large upgrade?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

JonPro said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the Lyr 2 and Lyr 3? Is it worth getting the Lyr 2 now, or is the 3 really a large upgrade?



Take this with a grain f salt, I haven’t had the Lyr 2 in awhile,  I believe the Lyr 3 is in a completely different league it is a far superior amp in sonics and versatility.


----------



## alphanumerix1

ProfFalkin said:


> I just heard a better Schiit DAC/Amp combo; one I like more than the Lyr 3/Mimby on my ZMF Eikon.
> 
> The bass was more controlled without sacrificing impact.  Tonality was perfect.  Let me say that again.  Perfect.  Staging was wide and deep. It was the best I've ever heard from those headphones.  The LFF modified HE6 was amazing though it as well.  Best dac amp combo I've heard to date.
> 
> ...



Ok


----------



## ProfFalkin

alphanumerix1 said:


> Ok


You didn't guess...


----------



## earnmyturns

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Seconded, with my 2 cents, had a Valhalla (plus the Lyr 1& 2) with the 800 and 650, the Lyr 3 is Schiit’s best amp to date (caveat, I’ve only listened to the Rag at meets and I’ve never heard the Jot).


Lyr 3+stock TS > Jot > Asgard 2 in my experience. Mainly, less glary highs, punchier bass, better instrument separation as you go up. That's in sync with price differences. But the Lyr 3 also competes well with my Neurochrome HP-1, which costs 2.5x.


----------



## earnmyturns

antoramp said:


> Ah... Good To know! So should a solid-state Amplifier ( e.g. Asgard 2 or Jotunheim ) have Blacker background than The Lyr 3? or it’s not a matter of tube-amp vs ss-Amps?
> Because I’ve never listen To a Tube amp...


I've owned both the Asgard 2 and the Jot, and I much prefer the Lyr 3 (with stock Tung-Sol tube for now) to either, listening with Ether C Flows. Whatever slight increase in perceived background noise (not much that I can tell), the Lyr 3 produces a more coherent, spatially organized, fluid but very detailed rendering. I listen to lots of modern piano work (in jazz solo and ensemble, also modern classical) and my pet peeve is when mid-to-high frequencies, and especially overtones, sound grainy compared with what I experience in live performances by the same artists. So far, the Lyr 3 wins big in that department, and holds its own against the much more expensive solid-state Neurochrome HP-1, while providing a more intimate, small room experience than the more austere, big-room feeling of the HP-1. The Lyr 3 is maybe a tad slower on sharp transients from percussion, but it more than compensates with tight control and the most solid, 3D rendering of bass (jazz double bass, kick drum) of all of those amps.


----------



## earnmyturns

antoramp said:


> Ah! But I’ve heard that The Jotunheim was quite bright, isn’t it?


Depends on the headphones. With two MrSpeakers 'phones, Ether C Flows or Æon, not overly bright to my taste, and outstanding with transients, but it lacks the overall coherence and liquidity of the Lyr 3 with tubes. The Jot is a very good amp for the price, but the Lyr 3 with tubes goes from good to delight. If you look at my sig, I have ayDAC upstream of the Lyr 3 that costs 4.5x the Lyr 3, and I find that the Lyr 3 keeps up with the DAC, and if anything improves how non-oversampled 44.1/16 tracks come through relative to the much more expensive HP-1. If it was my money, I'd go for a Lyr 3 with the stock Tung-Sol tube and be done with it for a while, and then focus on DACs and headphones if I wanted more.


----------



## earnmyturns (Apr 22, 2018)

antoramp said:


> ok that could be a game changer for me... The possibility to  have The balanced connection...


Balanced is overrated. It is important in long signal paths for common-mode rejection, but I lost nothing going from balanced (Jot) to not balanced (HP-1 and Lyr 3). On the Jot I did prefer balanced to SE somewhat. The HP-1 has a balanced output but it is not internally balanced. I have both SE and balanced cables around for input and output and I use whatever is most convenient. Balanced internal circuitry makes headamps bulkier and more expensive for relatively little benefit AFAIK. The story may be different for speaker amps, but that's not what we are discussing here.


----------



## antoramp

earnmyturns said:


> Depends on the headphones. With two MrSpeakers 'phones, Ether C Flows or Æon, not overly bright to my taste, and outstanding with transients, but it lacks the overall coherence and liquidity of the Lyr 3 with tubes. The Jot is a very good amp for the price, but the Lyr 3 with tubes goes from good to delight. If you look at my sig, I have ayDAC upstream of the Lyr 3 that costs 4.5x the Lyr 3, and I find that the Lyr 3 keeps up with the DAC, and if anything improves how non-oversampled 44.1/16 tracks come through relative to the much more expensive HP-1. If it was my money, I'd go for a Lyr 3 with the stock Tung-Sol tube and be done with it for a while, and then focus on DACs and headphones if I wanted more.





earnmyturns said:


> Balanced is overrated. It is important in long signal paths for common-mode rejection, but I lost nothing going from balanced (Jot or HP-1) to SE (Lyr 3).



Many thanks  I'm now ready for a headphone amplifier so in the following days I'll order the Lyr 3... In the ( not so ) near ( neither non so far ) future I'm planning to buy a new DAC ( Maybe the Gungnir Multibit ) and then a planar headphone ( maybe the LCD-2 )


----------



## antoramp

earnmyturns said:


> I've owned both the Asgard 2 and the Jot, and I much prefer the Lyr 3 (with stock Tung-Sol tube for now) to either, listening with Ether C Flows. Whatever slight increase in perceived background noise (not much that I can tell), the Lyr 3 produces a more coherent, spatially organized, fluid but very detailed rendering. I listen to lots of modern piano work (in jazz solo and ensemble, also modern classical) and my pet peeve is when mid-to-high frequencies, and especially overtones, sound grainy compared with what I experience in live performances by the same artists. So far, the Lyr 3 wins big in that department, and holds its own against the much more expensive solid-state Neurochrome HP-1, while providing a more intimate, small room experience than the more austere, big-room feeling of the HP-1. The Lyr 3 is maybe a tad slower on sharp transients from percussion, but it more than compensates with tight control and the most solid, 3D rendering of bass (jazz double bass, kick drum) of all of those amps.


You helped me a lot with these 3 posts! thank you very much!


----------



## earnmyturns

antoramp said:


> Many thanks  I'm now ready for a headphone amplifier so in the following days I'll order the Lyr 3... In the ( not so ) near ( neither non so far ) future I'm planning to buy a new DAC ( Maybe the Gungnir Multibit ) and then a planar headphone ( maybe the LCD-2 )


On the DAC front, I'd look carefully at the Soekris discrete R2R DACs, especially dac1321. I love my Schiit Yggdrasil and I've had a good experience with the Bifrost multibit, but the Soekris DACs are hitting a really sweet spot. I own a dac1541, which includes an amp (I needed that for that particular setup), but the discussions of the dac1321 I've read suggest that it does extremely well for the price (490 Eur) and it is not a huge step down from the TOTL dac1541.


----------



## antoramp

earnmyturns said:


> On the DAC front, I'd look carefully at the Soekris discrete R2R DACs, especially dac1321. I love my Schiit Yggdrasil and I've had a good experience with the Bifrost multibit, but the Soekris DACs are hitting a really sweet spot. I own a dac1541, which includes an amp (I needed that for that particular setup), but the discussions of the dac1321 I've read suggest that it does extremely well for the price (490 Eur) and it is not a huge step down from the TOTL dac1541.


Ok I'll consider your suggestions when I'll be ready for the new DAC. Really Thanks


----------



## earnmyturns

ProfFalkin said:


> Yggy (a2) > Saga > Vidar.


Whoa, that's the definition of overkill


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Can’t remember who recommended the Foton Tubes, to lazy to do the search, but good call. Just preliminary thoughts, they just arrived from Ukraine and early listening on a 1962, T Plates, 2 hole is very nice. Not what I expected after the Stock Tubes, very pleasantly surprised, thank you.


----------



## earnmyturns

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Can’t remember who recommended the Foton Tubes, to lazy to do the search, but good call. Just preliminary thoughts, they just arrived from Ukraine and early listening on a 1962, T Plates, 2 hole is very nice. Not what I expected after the Stock Tubes, very pleasantly surprised, thank you.


Those things are way cheaper than other 6N7S NOS options out there. What's up with that?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

earnmyturns said:


> Those things are way cheaper than other 6N7S NOS options out there. What's up with that?




I think part of it is the old, “supply and demand” they are worthless in Ukraine, available in large quantities, and few users. 


I’m sending one back with my Wife and Daughter when they visit Family this summer so they can bring a bunch home!


----------



## Zachik

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Can’t remember who recommended the Foton Tubes, to lazy to do the search, but good call. Just preliminary thoughts, they just arrived from Ukraine and early listening on a 1962, T Plates, 2 hole is very nice. *Not what I expected after the Stock Tubes, very pleasantly surprised*, thank you.


Please elaborate 
Surprising (good) bass / mids / highs / sound stage / smoothness / detail?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Zachik said:


> Please elaborate
> Surprising (good) bass / mids / highs / sound stage / smoothness / detail?



Sorry, it’s to early to go into great detail, but the tone and soundstage are very good. Haven’t done a head to head with the Sylvania or Ken Rads, but I’m not noticing anything missing in bass or soundstage, and detail is quite good.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 24, 2018)

RCA, silver lettering, short bottle, side getter, staggered flat black plates 6SN7GTA = sounds like my Sylvania chrome dome, and 1/2 the price.  Nice sound.  Not peaky, rolled off or offensive in any way.   Pretty safe selection if you don't know where to start rolling.


   


(I like pictures.  Easier to identify exactly what is being talked about.)


----------



## JamesCanada

So I understand the fun of having a Tube amp is trying different combos and tubes. That being said, I have a simple question: How good are the stock tubes? bare bones stock....


----------



## chef8489

earnmyturns said:


> Those things are way cheaper than other 6N7S NOS options out there. What's up with that?


They were made in quantity for the Military for the most part during the USSR period. With its collapse and advancement in technology there is a huge stockpile of tubes as we no longer use tubes in military equipment.


----------



## ProfFalkin

JamesCanada said:


> So I understand the fun of having a Tube amp is trying different combos and tubes. That being said, I have a simple question: How good are the stock tubes? bare bones stock....


They are pretty good actually.  There were several posts on it earlier in the thread.  Search is your friend, but here are a few to start you off.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr...iscussion-thread.875185/page-36#post-14177993

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr...iscussion-thread.875185/page-23#post-14161468


----------



## JamesCanada

ProfFalkin said:


> They are pretty good actually.  There were several posts on it earlier in the thread.  Search is your friend, but here are a few to start you off.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr...iscussion-thread.875185/page-36#post-14177993
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr...iscussion-thread.875185/page-23#post-14161468



Sorry about that, I need to get the hang of these forums... 


So,
Has anyone had any regrets or feel like the Lyr 3 is not up to the standards of what they expected ?? 
Has anyone felt like Lyr is not a good value for $ ?


----------



## ProfFalkin

My only regret is paying the extra for the MB card when I use and prefer the external Modi MB DAC instead.


----------



## terminatetrails

antoramp said:


> Many thanks  I'm now ready for a headphone amplifier so in the following days I'll order the Lyr 3... In the ( not so ) near ( neither non so far ) future I'm planning to buy a new DAC ( Maybe the Gungnir Multibit ) and then a planar headphone ( maybe the LCD-2 )


If you are going for an Audeze hp to pair with the Lyr I would recommend going up a step to the LCD-X/XC depending on the genre of tunes you like.  I had the 2F and XC both for quite a while and the XC is the one I still own.  The X series just captures more subtleties in music (jazz, classical, electronic), however, if you mostly listen to rock, the LCD-2 would be a good choice as it presents music as a coherent whole.  [Lots of good things being said about the LCD-2C however I haven't heard it].
On the DAC front I love my Gumby AND my new mb universal card.  No complaints about either, only raving joy.  However, it is most likely that your hp's are going to be the bottleneck of your system unless you are looking at Utopia/HE-1000/HE-X/or other top end models.  Even my LCD-XC's don't have the ability to retrieve the level of detail of my T1's, much less my Utopias.  In my opinion the HE-X is probably between the T1 and Utopia.  I still hold that the best kept secret in hp's is the T1.  It routinely sells for under $700, sounds great with tubes, has amazing detail, and is the most comfortable pair I've ever owned.


----------



## ProfFalkin

The Beyer-treble murder spike is real.   

Audition the T1 (or any headphone, really) before you buy it.


----------



## terminatetrails

ProfFalkin said:


> The Beyer-treble murder spike is real.
> 
> Audition the T1 (or any headphone, really) before you buy it.


True enough, some people are sensitive to something in the upper frequencies of the Beyer house sound.  I never have been sensitive (even in the notoriously reviewed T90's).  However, I also like Klipsch horns, etc.  You have to know your ears and your tastes.  This is why there are so many different hp's!


----------



## antoramp

terminatetrails said:


> If you are going for an Audeze hp to pair with the Lyr I would recommend going up a step to the LCD-X/XC depending on the genre of tunes you like.  I had the 2F and XC both for quite a while and the XC is the one I still own.  The X series just captures more subtleties in music (jazz, classical, electronic), however, if you mostly listen to rock, the LCD-2 would be a good choice as it presents music as a coherent whole.  [Lots of good things being said about the LCD-2C however I haven't heard it].
> On the DAC front I love my Gumby AND my new mb universal card.  No complaints about either, only raving joy.  However, it is most likely that your hp's are going to be the bottleneck of your system unless you are looking at Utopia/HE-1000/HE-X/or other top end models.  Even my LCD-XC's don't have the ability to retrieve the level of detail of my T1's, much less my Utopias.  In my opinion the HE-X is probably between the T1 and Utopia.  I still hold that the best kept secret in hp's is the T1.  It routinely sells for under $700, sounds great with tubes, has amazing detail, and is the most comfortable pair I've ever owned.


Thank you  I usually listen to Pop/ EDM/ Downtempo and Classical instead of Rock music... so the X should be better for my tastes in you opinion I think 


ProfFalkin said:


> The Beyer-treble murder spike is real.
> 
> Audition the T1 (or any headphone, really) before you buy it.


For example I had the Beyer Pro 990 and I had to return them back because I couldn’ Listen to them for more than 5 minutes because of those highs...


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 24, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> RCA, silver lettering, short bottle, side getter, staggered flat black plates 6SN7GTA = sounds like my Sylvania chrome dome, and 1/2 the price.  Nice sound.  Not peaky, rolled off or offensive in any way.   Pretty safe selection if you don't know where to start rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the same rca tube and I find it very warm, my warmest tube infact and all the sylvanias I have are much brighter and more engaging in comparison.


----------



## Motocrossman24

antoramp said:


> Thank you  I usually listen to Pop/ EDM/ Downtempo and Classical instead of Rock music... so the X should be better for my tastes in you opinion I think
> 
> For example I had the Beyer Pro 990 and I had to return them back because I couldn’ Listen to them for more than 5 minutes because of those highs...



Audition a set of hifiman he560...if u want detail they are unreal, and will smack the crap out of anything in their current price range and many well above its price range...it also pairs amazingly well with the lyr3


----------



## erics75

anyone pairing their lyr 3 with a grace m9xx? 

i'm finding it to be a great pairing overall with the TS tube. i always felt grace did one of the best implementations of the akm 4490 chip in the m9xx. it's smooth, detailed, holographic, and just all around pleasing and effortless in it's presentation. maybe a bit of bass bloom, but nothing over the top. i felt it helped calm the jotunheim's aggressive nature quite nicely. the lyr 3, being much smoother sounding overall, didnt seem like the best pairing at first. but after a few days listening, i'm sold. 

what stands out to me is the soundstage. with the mimby and bimby dacs, the soundstage seemed a bit constrained to me. width was fine, but depth and layering were constricted. placing instruments on the stage in complex passages wasn't easy. swapping the m9xx seemed to give the lyr more depth, while maintaining the good width i heard with the schiit dacs. instruments have a bit more air around them, more distinct borders. i can visualize them better in the mix on the grace. it was quite evident on the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack, the riddle of steel track. at around the 3:30 mark the track explodes in a cacophony of chorus, percussion, and horns. the mastering quality overall is just ok, so resolution isnt the greatest. with the schiit dacs the horns and chorus would often overpower the percussion. swap the grace, and the percussion moves up front a bit more, and more evenly balances the mix. 

so as not to make this a dac comparison, i give my early impressions of the lyr against the m9xx's internal amp, my jot, and the magni 3. dac duties all via the m9xx for simplicity, and because i'm currently loving on it more than usual. Listened to the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack, and David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (dam long title!!!!). i like these two albums for comparisons, as 1) i know them well, and 2) i find they tend to bring out the tendencies of equipment very well (bass bloom, sibilant, etc). i'll try to keep this brief as i'm still forming an opinion on the lyr. Ether C 1.1 headphones. 

Lyr 3 TS tube - smoothest/wettest sounding of the bunch. handles treble the best for me. the Conan album can get hot at times. really hot. at no point with the Lyr did i feel the need to lower the volume. at the same time, at no point did i ever feel the treble lacked extension, or was rolled off. it extends just fine, but doesnt have the glare or etching evident in the other amps. by far the best treble response i've heard in a schiit amp (Rag exempt as i've not heard enough). The Theology track from Conan has some very bright metallic chime type instruments (forgive me, i have no idea what they are, but you'll hear them immediately), and these things can sound SIBILANT on amps with poorly implemented treble. on the Lyr they're smooth, detailed, and completely acceptable (on the Jot i lower the volume quite a bit). mids are great, nothing sticks out to me other than they're more wet sounding, more lush, but without mid bass bloom. bass is slightly reserved, in a good way. it has plenty of extension and slam, but also seems to sound the most natural to my ears. no bloom or bleed transitioning to the mids. no exaggerated slam in the sub regions (looking at you jot). best soundstage of the bunch. 

Jotunheim - hyperactive! fun in short bursts, but wow, this thing is aggressive. with my hd6xx it's a perfect compliment to that slow transducer. really wakes it up. but on the ether c it's just too aggressive for me. treble is the hottest of the bunch here, yet not the most detailed. it initially sounds the clearest, but it's just the brightest. the David Bowie album has tremendous detail buried in it, and the Lyr pulls the most of it out. fine details, especially in the treble, are hazy or altogether lost on the Jot. i'm talking background noises in the mix, not main instruments. on the track Five Years, i hear a faint clicking towards the back of the mix. no clue what it is, maybe part of the drummers kit or sticks making noise. but only the Lyr brought it out enough to draw my attention. the jot as a whole has a slight metallic glare to it, a brittleness that makes hot tracks like some of the Conan tracks very uncomfortable to listen to. mids are fine, no complaints. bass! the jot brings the most bombastic bass presentation of the bunch! lots of weight and slam. excellent bass control as well, nothing loose here, but it does sound a touch elevated/unnatural. Warm Welcome on the Conan soundtrack is a bit too bombastic. fun? oh yeah! but kinda exaggerated. Starman from David Bowie is another track that slams nice and hard, and seems a tad too strong out of the Jot. 

Magni 3 - Almost as good as the Lyr. It share's the Lyr's overall coherence and maturity, but cannot quite compete with it in overall technical ability. So take all my thoughts on the Lyr, and scale them back a bit with the Magni. Treble overall is very good, but with hot tracks, some slight glare can rear it's head. Mids i have no complaints. Bass as well, no complaints. Soundstage is decent, but nothing special. Average? sure, lets go with that! for $99 it's a no brainer, and should be the entry point for anyone entering this hobby. other than the h6xx, i prefer all my headphones on the Magni vs the Jot. 

m9xx - The internal amp on the m9xx is very nice, but slightly sleepy and unassuming. it's treble rolls off a touch, bass blooms a touch, and mids are non distinct. nothing sounds wrong, or off, it's just nothing special. it gets the job done, it's competent, but it's kinda boring. i think that's why i forget how good the dac portion of the unit is. when you decouple the dac from the amp, the magic really happens. that doesnt mean the amp is bad, it's not. its quite good. it's the nice guy of the group. does everything well, but lacks excitement. 

overall i'm REALLY impressed by the Lyr so far. i'm about 100 hours in? yeah lets go with that. the tube should have settled in, i cannot detect any changes in it, and havent since the initial few hours while it burned in. this is the least schiit sounding amp i've heard from them. i cant put that into words better, sorry. but when listening to schiit products, i tend to notice an overall house sound. not so with the Lyr. the highest end amp i had the privilege of borrowing for a few weeks was the Eddie Current Black Widow, paired with a Chord 2Qute dac. That was quite an experience. all i could think of was "this is as close as i've heard headphones sound to a live performance". it was transparent, effortless, holographic, and just blew me away. Do i put the Lyr in the same category? no, not even close. but it's the closest i've personally gotten to it, with equipment I've personally owned. I get the same general feeling i got with the ECBW. Effortless, holographic, engaging. though it's not on the same technical level, it's still quite an accomplishment for Schiit. i'm so eager to hear any new Gen 3 products they release in the future. if the Lyr is any indication, they're leapfrogging themselves silly with their new tech. i'd honestly take the Lyr 3 over the MJ2 any day of the week. it's legit. 

any complaints? honestly, nothing so far. if you twisted my arm, i'd maybe say it's slightly polite sounding. i hate saying that, as it's not boring in the least. it's just one of the most coherent top to bottom sounding amps i've heard. i'm trying to really learn the Lyr with the TS tube, then i'll try some tube rolling and deeper comparisons to other equipment. but so far, so good. 

finally, for anyone lusting after this thing, but on a tight budget, get a Magni 3. that is a seriously good amp. you're getting 95% or more of the performance for so much less. and finally, these are my opinions, ymmv, yada yada, blah blah blah.


----------



## terminatetrails (Apr 24, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> Audition a set of hifiman he560...if u want detail they are unreal, and will smack the crap out of anything in their current price range and many well above its price range...it also pairs amazingly well with the lyr3


I've owned the HE-560 and it is a great intro set of hp's (and can be had for $350! check Adorama), however, it is not in the same league as the HE-X2.  The 560 doesn't have the all encompassing sound, the incredible amount of detail and layering, plus I felt the 560's were a bit on the plastic/creaky side of the build quality scale.  If you have the money, go for the X.

HA HA- either X!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 24, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> I have the same rca tube and I find it very warm, my warmest tube infact and all the sylvanias I have are much brighter and more engaging in comparison.


Huh.  Curious.  I'll let this one burn in more.  I know a KenRad I had lost a bit of treble after 50 hours or so.  Might happen here too?


----------



## FLTWS

@erics75 

Which Conan?
A. I have the original single CD 1982 release on Varese Sarabande VSD-5390 conducted by Poledouris.
B. The 2 CD 2010 release of the complete score on Prometheus XPCD 169 with the City of Prague Phil. Orch. and Chorus with Nic Raine conducting.
C. There is also a 3 CD release on Amazon issued by Intrada which I don't have. Disc 3 is the original 1982 cut. Not clear if the other 2 CDs in this set are as in "B" above  - the tracks may be laid out differently giving different disc times.


----------



## Motocrossman24 (Apr 24, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> Huh.  Curious.  I'll let this one burn in more.  I know a KenRad I had lost a bit of treble after 50 goes or so.  Might happen here too?


In fairness, mine is nowhere near breaking in as it was too warm n got stuck in its box in favor of tubes I prefer more. From the small amount I listened to it it was similar to the rca grey glass I have but missing some detail and excitement in comparison. I’m not pro by any means of describing audio. But just knew it was way warmer, darker, more laid back then anything I own currently.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Motocrossman24 said:


> In fairness, mine is nowhere near breaking in as it was too warm n got stuck in its box in favor of tubes I prefer more. From the small amount I listened to it it was similar to the rca grey glass I have but missing some detail and excitement in comparison. I’m not pro by any means of describing audio. But just knew it was way warmer, darker, more laid back then anything I own currently.


Yeah, my RCA grey glass was way too warm too.  This one doesn't sound like that.  Not sure what's up here.  Oh well.


----------



## erics75

FLTWS said:


> @erics75
> 
> Which Conan?
> A. I have the original single CD 1982 release on Varese Sarabande VSD-5390 conducted by Poledouris.
> ...


It is C the three disc set. Its the original 1982 release plus the complete score on discs 1 and 2. Its not the Prague compete score, its the missing tracks recorded by Poledouris that were never previously released. Though I like the Prague collection as a compliment piece, I prefer the original work.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Can’t remember who recommended the Foton Tubes, to lazy to do the search, but good call. Just preliminary thoughts, they just arrived from Ukraine and early listening on a 1962, T Plates, 2 hole is very nice. Not what I expected after the Stock Tubes, very pleasantly surprised, thank you.



Not to slag on the Foton which is (IMO) one of the best bangs for the buck currently available, but I'm groovin' to the Melz even more.  Doing some really nice things into the Aeons.  Last night it was a bit tizzy in the treble (with only about 4 hours on it), but after playing since then and getting another 22 hours on it, the majority of that is gone and the treble is starting to sound pretty darn nice.  Not as cheap as the Fotons, but can still be picked up for way less than some of the lauded US stuff.


----------



## chef8489

How much tube glow are you guys getting with the different tubes and the Lyr 3. I dont get much with octal tubs on my vali 2 and of course the sound matters more, but i love it if it is there.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

chef8489 said:


> How much tube glow are you guys getting with the different tubes and the Lyr 3. I dont get much with octal tubs on my vali 2 and of course the sound matters more, but i love it if it is there.



Nothing like I used to get from big power tubes, but the solo 6SN7 rising above the glow of the L.E.D. is a bit like an angelic middle finger (pointing at Duke of course).


----------



## Motocrossman24

6sn7 tubes don’t glow much, the Filaments usually run straight down the middle of the plates, sometimes with a tiny visible nub on the top and bottom micca. Ge does make a version with a filament that bridges the top, and will glow much more visibly then most other tubes, but I wouldn’t use the glow as a reason to pick anything.


----------



## FLTWS

chef8489 said:


> How much tube glow are you guys getting with the different tubes and the Lyr 3. I dont get much with octal tubs on my vali 2 and of course the sound matters more, but i love it if it is there.



Most of mine are very dim.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Nothing like I used to get from big power tubes, but the solo 6SN7 rising above the glow of the L.E.D. is a bit like an angelic middle finger (pointing at Duke of course).



I'll add my middle finger towards Duke, and we'll be in stereo.  

But I'll also have to change my login name to TarHeelsare1.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

What I posted on the Lyr 3 Tube Rolling Thread;

“A brief update the Foton, 1962’s have nice tone, but are a bit forward and don’t extend as deep in the bass as either the Sylvanias, the ‘52, or the ‘48 VT-231, which remain my favorite tubes.”

Also, a great recording to test the macro and micro dynamics of tubes (or anything else for that matter) is;

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000041QE/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apu_i_2Nm4AbGA2VZY1


----------



## Sanlitun

antoramp said:


> Ah! But I’ve heard that The Jotunheim was quite bright, isn’t it?



The issue with the Jot isn't that it is just bright, it's in the way it presents treble so forcefully. It's like having someone outside your window honking the tunes out on their car horn. Just too much inertia in the treble. The sound is too uncoordinated. In many ways I prefer the Asgard 2 over the Jot as even though the Asgard doesn't have the same clarity, it just doesn't do so many things wrong.

I finally heard the Lyr 3 and it has a little bit of that Jot confusion although tamed by the tube somewhat. If I had to go with a Schiit product I would go for the Valhalla, the rest of their amps have not really worked out for me.


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 26, 2018)

Sanlitun said:


> In many ways I prefer the Asgard 2 over the Jot as even though the Asgard doesn't have the same clarity, it just doesn't do so many things wrong.


Same here.  For me, the bloom is definitely off the rose with the Jot. When I compare it to my Lyr 2, it isn’t even close. The Lyr makes me want to keep listening to song after song. The Jotunheim does not. The Lyr amps are truly something special.


----------



## bgbkt

Has anyone compared Lyr3 with CMA400i. They are both about in same price range with DAC/mimby added for Lyr3. I’m trying to finalize DAC/amp combo for my Focal Clear and they both seems to have positive reviews/synergy with Clear.


----------



## antoramp

Is possible to have a deep comparison between the Lyr 3 and the Mjolnir 2? Thank you!  Because I’ve searched through the forum and other websites but I found out only a few comments and not a true side-by-side comparison...


----------



## ProfFalkin

Sure.  Send me an MJ2, I'll write up a comparison.


----------



## JamminVMI

JamesCanada said:


> Sorry about that, I need to get the hang of these forums...
> 
> 
> So,
> ...


Zero regrets, great value!


----------



## JamminVMI (Apr 26, 2018)

erics75 said:


> anyone pairing their lyr 3 with a grace m9xx?
> 
> finally, for anyone lusting after this thing, but on a tight budget, get a Magni 3. that is a seriously good amp. you're getting 95% or more of the performance for so much less. and finally, these are my opinions, ymmv, yada yada, blah blah blah.


I basically have the same opinion, though I haven't heard the Jot - but what I also love is the Vali 2. That little guy brings a bit of warmth to the party that the M3 doesn't quite have, but it also brings the detail (right now with an Electroharmonix tube in it). For the price, it's also one great value.


----------



## winders

I have and very much like the Vali 2, but is not anywhere nears as good as the Lyr 3. The Lyr 3 is a detail monster by comparison which is why it might not seem as warm as the Vali 2.


----------



## bcowen

winders said:


> I have and very much like the Vali 2, but is not anywhere nears as good as the Lyr 3. The Lyr 3 is a detail monster by comparison which is why it might not seem as warm as the Vali 2.



I agree.  Sums it up quite nicely.


----------



## singingbee

JamminVMI said:


> Zero regrets, great value!


NO REGRETS. MAKES MY HD800S SINGS.


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> I'll add my middle finger towards Duke, and we'll be in stereo.
> 
> But I'll also have to change my login name to TarHeelsare1.


Middle finger is always at Duke.


----------



## thecrow

May i ask what’s the general sound coming from the lyr3 and/or it’s two dac options

I’m looking for an amp that will play very nicely with an elear, work well with the he x edition (i’m worried it may be TOO laid back as an option) and could well work with an lcd 2 too

I’ve also considered the cayin iha6 and buraon virtuoso v2+

Detail does not have to be exceptional but good. My main setup is a woo wa2 for my hd800 and lcd2

And I’m not aure which way to go for my elear amd potentially the he x

Thanks


----------



## alphanumerix1

thecrow said:


> May i ask what’s the general sound coming from the lyr3 and/or it’s two dac options
> 
> I’m looking for an amp that will play very nicely with an elear, work well with the he x edition (i’m worried it may be TOO laid back as an option) and could well work with an lcd 2 too
> 
> ...



Can't comment on the lyr3 combo but the iha6 is a great combo with the lcd2


----------



## chef8489

alphanumerix1 said:


> Can't comment on the lyr3 combo but the iha6 is a great combo with the lcd2


Kinda defeats the purpose in the Lyr 3 thread lol.


----------



## alphanumerix1

chef8489 said:


> Kinda defeats the purpose in the Lyr 3 thread lol.



You are correct. I'll stay on topic. After trying both the lyr3 and iha6 I decided on the cayin. Like I've mentioned before I was hearing a weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.

It's a solid unit just not for me.


----------



## thecrow

chef8489 said:


> Kinda defeats the purpose in the Lyr 3 thread lol.


But it helps me for starters


----------



## chef8489 (Apr 27, 2018)

alphanumerix1 said:


> You are correct. I'll stay on topic. After trying both the lyr3 and iha6 I decided on the cayin. Like I've mentioned before I was hearing a weird disconnect between the timbre of the upper mids/treble and the lower mids/bass.
> 
> It's a solid unit just not for me.


Was that with the lcd2c or different cans? Did you try different tubes? Could have been a faulty tube.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> Middle finger is always at Duke.



LOL!  Not necessarily a bad thing though.  Keeps us from pointing the finger at UK, which is the only other worthy nemesis.


----------



## EagleWings

thecrow said:


> May i ask what’s the general sound coming from the lyr3 and/or it’s two dac options
> 
> I’m looking for an amp that will play very nicely with an elear, work well with the he x edition (i’m worried it may be TOO laid back as an option) and could well work with an lcd 2 too
> 
> ...



( with TungSol 6SN7 and Amp only)
Neutral-warm in tone and generally a touch laidback. Doesn’t have a bloomy or a syrupy character, like that of a pure tube amp as it has very good clarity. Nor is it dry like a neutral SS amp. Not the most hardest hitting in the bass. Amazingly linear treble, free from hardness or glare (although, if your DAC is too bright, some of the brightness is going to come through). Good staging capabilities to support 800’s stage. But could use some depth and air for better layering and separation. Resolution is quite good. I guess to the level of what you could expect from a $500 amp.


----------



## thecrow

EagleWings said:


> ( with TungSol 6SN7 and Amp only)
> Neutral-warm in tone and generally a touch laidback. Doesn’t have a bloomy or a syrupy character, like that of a pure tube amp as it has very good clarity. Nor is it dry like a neutral SS amp. Not the most hardest hitting in the bass. Amazingly linear treble, free from hardness or glare (although, if your DAC is too bright, some of the brightness is going to come through). Good staging capabilities to support 800’s stage. But could use some depth and air for better layering and separation. Resolution is quite good. I guess to the level of what you could expect from a $500 amp.


That’s great info

I’m thinking it MAY be a little too laid back for what I my looking for - already have a metrum hex nos dac so may be overkill in that regard, particularly with the hifiman ed x I’m considering. Unless the lyr multibit dac counteracts that ......maybe


----------



## earnmyturns

thecrow said:


> I’m thinking it MAY be a little too laid back for what I my looking for - already have a metrum hex nos dac so may be overkill in that regard, particularly with the hifiman ed x I’m considering. Unless the lyr multibit dac counteracts that ......maybe


I run my Lyr 3 + new TS with a NOS DAC (Holo Spring KTE 3), I don't think this setup is "laid back," at least with my main headphones, MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. Somewhat more liquid sound than with other amps I've used with the same DAC (Jot, Neurochrome HP-1), but crisp transients and solid bass are still there. At least with the music I listen to, mainly modern jazz, modern classical, world.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I wouldn't call the Lyr 3 laid back at all.   I think it's a detail monster and would pair well with most R2R/NOS dacs.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Or it might really reveal flaws in cheaper DACs.


----------



## Wes S

I again, totally agree with ProfFalkin.


----------



## EagleWings

thecrow said:


> That’s great info
> 
> I’m thinking it MAY be a little too laid back for what I my looking for - already have a metrum hex nos dac so may be overkill in that regard, particularly with the hifiman ed x I’m considering. Unless the lyr multibit dac counteracts that ......maybe



On the "other" forum, some veterans recommend the 4490 module over the multibit, for better synergy with the amp.


----------



## thecrow

I really appreciate all this feedback

Ii love my hec dac for my hd800 with my woo wa2. I have found the ether flow open to be pretty similar (in a goid way) with the hd800

Anyone using the lyr3 with the hifiman efition x?


----------



## thecrow

And one other question: am i right in thinking that the multibit dac in the lyr the same level dac as having the modi attached?


----------



## earnmyturns

thecrow said:


> And one other question: am i right in thinking that the multibit dac in the lyr the same level dac as having the modi attached?


I've read elsewhere that it's not the same. Given how good the Lyr 3 is as an amp, I'd go for the best DAC you could afford, not the internal DAC card.


----------



## Motocrossman24

thecrow said:


> And one other question: am i right in thinking that the multibit dac in the lyr the same level dac as having the modi attached?


It’s the same dac, just with only a USB port and u can’t power it on/off separately from the amp


----------



## earnmyturns

Motocrossman24 said:


> It’s the same dac, just with only a USB port and u can’t power it on/off separately from the amp


USB Gen 2 << S/PDIF.


----------



## thecrow

earnmyturns said:


> I've read elsewhere that it's not the same. Given how good the Lyr 3 is as an amp, I'd go for the best DAC you could afford, not the internal DAC card.





Motocrossman24 said:


> It’s the same dac, just with only a USB port and u can’t power it on/off separately from the amp


Thanks for that


----------



## Motocrossman24

earnmyturns said:


> USB Gen 2 << S/PDIF.



What’s that have to do w a dac being different? It’s the same dac period, schiit has said so many times, it just doesn’t have the connectivity options as the stand alone units for obvious reasons.


----------



## earnmyturns

Motocrossman24 said:


> What’s that have to do w a dac being different? It’s the same dac period, schiit has said so many times, it just doesn’t have the connectivity options as the stand alone units for obvious reasons.


The basic DAC circuitry may be the same, but overall SQ also depends on input. In my experience, Schiit Gen 2 is quite a bit worse than S/PDIF into the same Schiit DAC. Schiit Gen 5 is another story, but it is not available for the smaller Schiit multibit DACs.


----------



## Karlmalone1 (Apr 27, 2018)

thecrow said:


> May i ask what’s the general sound coming from the lyr3 and/or it’s two dac options
> 
> I’m looking for an amp that will play very nicely with an elear, work well with the he x edition (i’m worried it may be TOO laid back as an option) and could well work with an lcd 2 too
> 
> ...


Insofar as the LCD-2 I couldn't recommend a better pairing.  I also have a Liquid Carbon X and I prefer the Lyr 3 with the LCD.  Holographic soundstage combined with near perfect timbre (to my ears).  I would label it just slightly warm compared to neutral, while still retaining all the detail you could desire, as well as a punchy bass though not emphasized.  It's essentially perfect for my sonic preferences.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ProfFalkin said:


> I wouldn't call the Lyr 3 laid back at all.   I think it's a detail monster and would pair well with most R2R/NOS dacs.



I’m also using R2R DACs, and an adjective I wouldn’t use in describing the Lyr 3 is “laidback,” more like excellent macro and micro dynamics, good to great soundstage depending on the tube used, and great tone would be more appropriate IMO.


----------



## earnmyturns

Wildcatsare1 said:


> good to great soundstage depending on the tube used


Tube suggestions for great soundstage?


----------



## winders

Sylvania VT-231 and Sylvania 6SN7GT.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2018)

I am getting a wide and deep soundstage with my KenRad (staggered plates) and RCA grey glass (early 40's VT-231).   The reverb on the RCA, and euphonics on the KenRad, make both unique in their own way, but both are wide, deep and very holographic.


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> Tube suggestions for great soundstage?



I haven't tried any of the most desirable Sylvanias, but the champ in this area for me (so far) is the Russian Melz factory 6H8C (6N8S).


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 28, 2018)

I agree with both ProfFalkin and Wildcatsare1, I've just started listening to the LYR3 with the stock Tung-Sol (with about 75 hours on it) and it is anything but laidback in its presentation. This is my first exposure to the sound of the 6SN7 and it is nothing like the the HP amps I have built around the 6DJ8 or 12AU7 types which are much more similar to my ears, and with the right tubes I can get them to sound surprisingly like my Ragnarok with my HP's. At this point I've only listened to it with my Abyss and the stock tube but I've got 7 other 6SN7's to break-in and listen to, as well as 4 other headphones, not to mention head to head comparisons with my other HP amps. This is gonna' take some time to do.

Images seem larger than with my other amps, almost like I've moved my listening position closer to the musicians. But not forward, like say, my Jotunheim (which is what I bought the Loki for). The LYR3 is very good at subtle detail reveals. It has good extension at the frequency extremes, never sounds stressed in dynamic, complex music, and vocals are striking. The one thing lacking so far is the reproduction of the ambient air sound of the recording venue compared to my other amps, the hall sound. But, I've got a lot of tube rolling and breaking-in to do.

I'm going to need a long time, months for sure, to go through all the possible combinations and come to any conclusion for myself.


----------



## thecrow

And for thosee of us (ie me) that have a lot of favourable 6dj8/6922 tubes would your advice be to just grab an adapter to use these with the lyr 3 (i believe on the schiit site it says most of these tubea could be used, whatever that exactly means - i can contact schiit latwr for specifics) or to grab some 6sn7? Do they bring sonething unique or special?


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 28, 2018)

No, my position is to use the tube type the circuit was primarily designed to utilize. I won't be going the adapter route. The only exception I've made is the GE NOS 6922 for my MJ2 because the installed adapter seems to be integral and it was reasonably priced (and sounds good to my ears). But sure, go ahead, experiment if you like. My (expensive) Tele's and Amperex's are just for my MJ2.

One reason I bought the LYR3 was to hear to hear a different way of presenting the sound compared to my other amps. Choosing tubes to get all my gear to sound identical would be like having a closet full of nothing but long-sleeve, white, dress shirts to wear.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 28, 2018)

Wes S said:


> I am getting a wide and deep soundstage with my KenRad (staggered plates) and RCA grey glass (early 40's VT-231).   The reverb on the RCA, and euphonics on the KenRad, make both unique in their own way, but both are wide, deep and very holographic.



From your description (staggered plates), the Ken-Rad I have is different (flat, ribbed plates), but it is one of my top 3 tubes in the Lyr so far.  Very balanced in its' presentation.  Not exemplary at anything, but good at everything.


----------



## Wes S

That is a later production year, than mine.  I believe from 1951.  Mine are all from the 40's.  Cool to hear you like that one!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2018)

I bought and have the adapter for my 5670/2c51's to 6SN7, for my Lyr 3, but I am enjoying my RCA and KenRad 6SN7GT's so much I have not even thought about trying the adapter.  I am not totally sure it is even a direct replacement, after reading, a few more times, the Schiit website info.  I look forward to hearing future reviews on the subject.


----------



## earnmyturns

@bcowen @Wes S @ProfFalkin @winders Thank you for the NOS tube suggestions! From yours and other recommendations elsewhere, looks like I'm in the hunt for a Ken-Rad VT-231 and a Sylvania "Bad Boy" for my initial tube rolling stash...


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> @bcowen @Wes S @ProfFalkin @winders Thank you for the NOS tube suggestions! From yours and other recommendations elsewhere, looks like I'm in the hunt for a Ken-Rad VT-231 and a Sylvania "Bad Boy" for my initial tube rolling stash...



Good luck in your search!  The Ken-Rads are not as plentiful out there, but not insanely priced for the most part.  Be careful on the Sylvanias, especially on Ebay. Lots of sellers referring to any old Sylvania as a "Bad Boy" when most of them aren't.  A _*true*_ Bad Boy will be 1951 - 1953 vintage with 3 rivet holes in black t-shaped plates,and green lettering on the base.  But that just defines what that coined phrase refers to -- most any Sylvania made in the 50's or early 60's is going to be a really nice tube.  Just don't pay huge bucks for a tube claimed to be a Bad Boy that isn't.


----------



## earnmyturns

bcowen said:


> Good luck in your search!  The Ken-Rads are not as plentiful out there, but not insanely priced for the most part.  Be careful on the Sylvanias, especially on Ebay. Lots of sellers referring to any old Sylvania as a "Bad Boy" when most of them aren't.  A _*true*_ Bad Boy will be 1951 - 1953 vintage with 3 rivet holes in black t-shaped plates,and green lettering on the base.  But that just defines what that coined phrase refers to -- most any Sylvania made in the 50's or early 60's is going to be a really nice tube.  Just don't pay huge bucks for a tube claimed to be a Bad Boy that isn't.


Thanks for the advice! I'm starting by contacting Brent Jessee @ audiotubes.com, who has a solid reputation in the NOS world.


----------



## JamminVMI

ProfFalkin said:


> I wouldn't call the Lyr 3 laid back at all.   I think it's a detail monster and would pair well with most R2R/NOS dacs.


Agree, i find mine (no modules, input from 4490 Bifrost) very detailed with all three tubes I’ve tried (both 6N8S NOS and 6SN7 Tung Sol from Schiit, and Electro Harmonix 6SN7). Only thing I haven’t tried yet is LISST. Wanted to get initial impressions from tubes first. But detail is impressive with all the tubes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

earnmyturns said:


> Tube suggestions for great soundstage?



@winders beat me too it, both of the Sylvanias, I’d add the Mullards (if you can find one).


----------



## earnmyturns

Wildcatsare1 said:


> @winders beat me too it, both of the Sylvanias, I’d add the Mullards (if you can find one).


Had a quick look for the Mullards, way in the price stratosphere 

BTW, the Reiner/CSO 1993 digital/SACD remaster of their 1955 recording of Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra shows what the Lyr 3 is capable: goosebump-inducing dynamics, timbre, staging, accurate orchestral instrument placement. Having listened to this piece many times both recorded and live, this as good as it gets without being there on a great seat with a great orchestra and concert hall. The first movement's interplay of strings and brass is superbly rendered in space and dynamics.


----------



## Motocrossman24

earnmyturns said:


> Thanks for the advice! I'm starting by contacting Brent Jessee @ audiotubes.com, who has a solid reputation in the NOS world.



Brent Jesse is where I try and buy all my tubes, everything I’ve gotten from him are great, just be aware he sells 2holes as badboys too, and has listed for a slightly higher(but still fair price) 3 hole bad boys, so make sure you explain exactly what you want and pay the proper price, I believe they’re 75$ which compared to eBay listings is practically free.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 28, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> Brent Jesse is where I try and buy all my tubes, everything I’ve gotten from him are great, just be aware he sells 2holes as badboys too, and has listed for a slightly higher(but still fair price) 3 hole bad boys, so make sure you explain exactly what you want and pay the proper price, I believe they’re 75$ which compared to eBay listings is practically free.


I thought $250 for a single bad boy was quite reasonable.  It has a brown base, top getter, and was made in '66...  Even though it doesn't say Sylvania on it, it does have 3 holes on the plates.

(Yeah, gotta love fraudBay.)


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> I thought $250 for a single bad boy was quite reasonable.  It has a brown base, top getter, and was made in '66...  Even though it doesn't say Sylvania on it, it does have 3 holes on the plates.
> 
> (Yeah, gotta love fraudBay.)



LOL!!

I like the (unknown vintage) GE's for $200...but that's a whole pair.  To be a good deal with an accurate description, they'd need to remove one of the zeros from the price, and remove the 'Boy' after 'Bad.'   But to be fair, I have a bias on GE tubes....I think they all suck.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 28, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> Had a quick look for the Mullards, way in the price stratosphere
> 
> BTW, the Reiner/CSO 1993 digital/SACD remaster of their 1955 recording of Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra shows what the Lyr 3 is capable: goosebump-inducing dynamics, timbre, staging, accurate orchestral instrument placement. Having listened to this piece many times both recorded and live, this as good as it gets without being there on a great seat with a great orchestra and concert hall. The first movement's interplay of strings and brass is superbly rendered in space and dynamics.



LOL! I went and got my copy and listened to it and your absolutely spot on. I was surprised at how much subtle detailing this LYR 3 lets through with the stock tube. The weight and body of bowed or plucked basses and cellos, the clarity of complex inner voices revealed, the honest perspective without highlighting, the sense of distance between the front row of musicians and the back rows of horns and percussion, the absolute lack of any glare or brightness in the highs at dynamic peaks. Also, the hall ambience is perfect. I think this may be the first time I've heard everything that the recording engineers were able to capture. A real treat, especially with a recording I've listened to hundreds of times over the years that I thought I knew every nook and cranny of.

Going to give a listen to Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances later on; Turnabout with Johanos and the Dallas Symphony. Got two lines of thunderstorms on radar that are coming thru over the next hour, best to shut things down until they pass.


----------



## bcowen

The world of vintage tubes has gone from crazy to beyond insane.  "Used, tested, has short, may or may not work well."  Shorted tubes do such nice things to your amplifier.

At least he's not calling it a Bad Boy....


----------



## earnmyturns

FLTWS said:


> LOL! I went and got my copy and listened to it and your absolutely spot on. I was surprised at how much subtle detailing this LYR 3 lets through with the stock tube. The weight and body of bowed or plucked basses and cellos, the clarity of complex inner voices revealed, the honest perspective without highlighting, the sense of distance between the front row of musicians and the back rows of horns and percussion, the absolute lack of any glare or brightness in the highs at dynamic peaks. Also, the hall ambience is perfect. I think this may be the first time I've heard everything that the recording engineers were able to capture. A real treat, especially with a recording I've listened to hundreds of times over the years that I thought I knew every nook and cranny of.


The front-to-back separation is wonderful in the 3rd movement, with the woodwinds and brass rising from behind the massed strings. Bartók's folk dance rhythms emerging from the darker, tragic background in the 5th movement are most uplifting in this rendering.


----------



## bcowen

The Lyr 3 is my first piece of Schiit with an IEC socket, so I've been swapping a number of different power cords out of the big rig and through the Lyr to see what (if anything) got me going. I've found the Oyaide Black Mamba Sigma V2 to be a nicely synergistic match, and less costly than some of the others tried.  Adds the biggest improvement in the microdynamic realm where it improves rhythmic vitality and subsequently increases foot tap and goosebump quantity.  Improvement in bass impact and treble detail (without etch) too.  Reasonably priced as these things go, but needs a good amount of break-in as it's a little brash and aggressive initially.  

And please -- I have no desire to instigate a flame war on this topic.  If you believe aftermarket power cords make a difference, I'm just passing this along as one I've found to work particularly well in the Lyr 3.  If you think a cord is cord and aftermarket cords are total BS, then *please* just pass this on by.


https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chuya-online/item/92479


----------



## exdmd

bcowen said:


> The world of vintage tubes has gone from crazy to beyond insane.  "Used, tested, has short, may or may not work well."  Shorted tubes do such nice things to your amplifier.
> 
> At least he's not calling it a Bad Boy....



I never buy tubes on eBay anymore. Over half the tubes I bought on eBay, even from sellers with great feedback were inferior. I stick to the well known US vendors now like Brent Jessee.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 29, 2018)

A new contender that is sounding quite promising:  a '59 Foton 6H8C.  Been playing in the Vali for a couple days, and just stuck it in the Lyr this morning.  More energetic in the upper mids/lower treble than the Melz (making the Melz sound a bit laid back in comparison), and more bass heft and power.  With both the Melz and Foton, the treble is fantastic -- airy, detailed, extended, yet never fatiguing.  Guess at some point I'm going to have to spring the bucks for one of the known greats (a real Bad Boy Sylvania or oval plate Tung-Sol) to see how these cheap-in-comparison Russkies stack up.

(note that the pins on these were supremely cruddy when I got them...photo below is after cleaning)


----------



## antoramp

In your opinion could be useful to add an LPS between the plug and the Lyr3? Does this could improve the sound in any audible way? Or it's better with DAC's? Or actually it doesn't make sense? Thank you


----------



## bcowen

antoramp said:


> In your opinion could be useful to add an LPS between the plug and the Lyr3? Does this could improve the sound in any audible way? Or it's better with DAC's? Or actually it doesn't make sense? Thank you



Most of the time an LPS is used to replace a switch-mode power supply (wal-wart or brick) when converting AC from the wall to DC going to the component.  An LPS can make a substantial improvement in that application, depending on the quality of the switch-mode supply it replaces.  Although there are AC-to-AC LPS's, I've never tried one.  I do use a pair of Shunyata Hydras between the wall and the pile of Schiit, but they are power conditioners rather than power supplies.


(picture is pre-Lyr 3: the wart for the Vali now gone and replaced with the Lyr cord)


----------



## chef8489

I use a good battery backup with a avr built in on all my electronics and pc's.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bcowen said:


> A new contender that is sounding quite promising:  a '59 Foton 6H8C.  Been playing in the Vali for a couple days, and just stuck it in the Lyr this morning.  More energetic in the upper mids/lower treble than the Melz (making the Melz sound a bit laid back in comparison), and more bass heft and power.  With both the Melz and Foton, the treble is fantastic -- airy, detailed, extended, yet never fatiguing.  Guess at some point I'm going to have to spring the bucks for one of the known greats (a real Bad Boy Sylvania or oval plate Tung-Sol) to see how these cheap-in-comparison Russkies stack up.
> 
> (note that the pins on these were supremely cruddy when I got them...photo below is after cleaning)



Look for Philco Tubes, they are rebranded Sylvanias, one is the “Bad Boy” (I really don’t care for that
Moniker). Mine are from the 12th week of 1953, so cutting it close. @bcowen  the pictures are above.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Look for Philco Tubes, they are rebranded Sylvanias, one is the “Bad Boy” (I really don’t care for that
> Moniker). Mine are from the 12th week of 1953, so cutting it close. @bcowen  the pictures are above.



Thanks for the pics!! _Very_ helpful.


----------



## bcowen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Look for Philco Tubes, they are rebranded Sylvanias, one is the “Bad Boy” (I really don’t care for that
> Moniker). Mine are from the 12th week of 1953, so cutting it close. @bcowen  the pictures are above.



I see that Brent Jesse has a good stock on several versions of these, so I'll give him a call tomorrow.  I really need to now how these Fotons and Melz compare before I a) buy more, and/or b) make a fool out of myself recommending them.


----------



## Motocrossman24

bcowen said:


> I see that Brent Jesse has a good stock on several versions of these, so I'll give him a call tomorrow.  I really need to now how these Fotons and Melz compare before I a) buy more, and/or b) make a fool out of myself recommending them.



I bought one of the Philco bad boys from Brent. They’re listed right under the sylvania bad boys, same tubes just rebranded, just ask for the 3 hole, they’re like 10$ more then the 2 hole.


----------



## earnmyturns

I have a MIL-SPEC KEN-RAD VT-231 on its way from Brent, but I'm almost afraid of how far it will suck me in, given that I'm already getting totally smitten by the Lyr-3 just with the stock new Tung-Sol. Listening to live-recorded free improvisation jazz, _Made in Chicago_ with Jack DeJohnette, Muhal Richard Abrams, Larry Gray, Roscoe Mitchell, Henry Threadgill. So overwhelmingly present, with the teeny noises from instrument handling as well as the background from the crowd. This is the first headamp that has kept me away from my speaker system (see sig to check what that means). It's kind of ridiculous that a $500 tube-hybrid amp can do this in competition with solid-state amps that cost several multiples of the Lyr-3. Don't know if it is the tube, or the new power stage design, but I've never, ever heard jazz instruments this present outside the best seats at a live gig.  @Jason Stoddard deep respect.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2018)

It is a


earnmyturns said:


> I have a MIL-SPEC KEN-RAD VT-231 on its way from Brent, but I'm almost afraid of how far it will suck me in, given that I'm already getting totally smitten by the Lyr-3 just with the stock new Tung-Sol. Listening to live-recorded free improvisation jazz, _Made in Chicago_ with Jack DeJohnette, Muhal Richard Abrams, Larry Gray, Roscoe Mitchell, Henry Threadgill. So overwhelmingly present, with the teeny noises from instrument handling as well as the background from the crowd. This is the first headamp that has kept me away from my speaker system (see sig to check what that means). It's kind of ridiculous that a $500 tube-hybrid amp can do this in competition with solid-state amps that cost several multiples of the Lyr-3. Don't know if it is the tube, or the new power stage design, but I've never, ever heard jazz instruments this present outside the best seats at a live gig.  @Jason Stoddard deep respect.


I can't wait to hear your impressions on the KenRad VT-231!  I bought a clear glass / staggered plate KenRad, from Brent and it is one of my top 2 tubes.  This tube has some magic. . .


----------



## Wildcatsare1

earnmyturns said:


> I have a MIL-SPEC KEN-RAD VT-231 on its way from Brent, but I'm almost afraid of how far it will suck me in, given that I'm already getting totally smitten by the Lyr-3 just with the stock new Tung-Sol. Listening to live-recorded free improvisation jazz, _Made in Chicago_ with Jack DeJohnette, Muhal Richard Abrams, Larry Gray, Roscoe Mitchell, Henry Threadgill. So overwhelmingly present, with the teeny noises from instrument handling as well as the background from the crowd. This is the first headamp that has kept me away from my speaker system (see sig to check what that means). It's kind of ridiculous that a $500 tube-hybrid amp can do this in competition with solid-state amps that cost several multiples of the Lyr-3. Don't know if it is the tube, or the new power stage design, but I've never, ever heard jazz instruments this present outside the best seats at a live gig.  @Jason Stoddard deep respect.



Listening to a bit of Jazz this morning as well, “Coltrane and Monk, Live”  with the BlueSound Node2>Vinshine R2R DAC>Lyr3 (Sylvania Vt-231)>Focal Clear. The Lyr3 plays the strengths of the Clear well, tone, macr/micro detail, speed. Where it pushes them over the top is in expanding the soundstage, width and depth, dramatically. 

I’d love to hear more from Jason on the design and implementation of the Lyr 3.


----------



## Cashy

Hey guys,

Really keen on the Lyr 3 however i'm in a bit of a pickle whether the Lyr 3 with 4490 or Jot with multi would be the best purchase. Lyr 3 with multi is out of my budget due to exceeding 1k for customs.


----------



## Wes S (May 1, 2018)

Lyr 3.  I am using a Modi 2 Uber (4490), with my Lyr 3 and it sounds way better than my Jotunheim with the 4490.  I do plan on getting the Modi Multibit, but for now I am very happy.


----------



## XERO1 (May 1, 2018)

Cashy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Really keen on the Lyr 3 however i'm in a bit of a pickle whether the Lyr 3 with 4490 or Jot with multi would be the best purchase. Lyr 3 with multi is out of my budget due to exceeding 1k for customs.


I would definitely recommend the Lyr 3 over the Jot.  See my brief thoughts about why here.

And you actually have a couple options for getting a multibit DAC for it without causing issues with customs.

1.  Buy the Lyr 3 and Multibit DAC card separately and install it yourself.  This will require a little work on your end but it shouldn't be too difficult.
2.  Buy the Lyr 3 and a Modi Multibit DAC separately.  This will cost an extra $50, but you get essentially the same multibit DAC used in the multibit DAC card, but it also has coax and optical inputs, which are very nice to have.

Hope this helps.


----------



## antoramp

How many hours does the Lyr 3 need for a proper burn in? 100h or more? And also for a nos tube? Thank you


----------



## bcowen

antoramp said:


> How many hours does the Lyr 3 need for a proper burn in? 100h or more? And also for a nos tube? Thank you



My Lyr took about 20 hours to start sounding really good.  Continued but increasingly smaller improvements all the way up to about 200 hours, after which I wasn't able to discern any further change.  My suggestion?  From out of the box all new and shiny, plug it in and let it play for a full day, then start enjoying it.

Tubes depend on the tube.  Some (like the Ken-Rad and '60's vintage Sylvania) start sounding pretty darn good after 10-15 hours.  They continue to refine after that, but the bulk of the break-in occurs quickly.  Russian tubes that I've tried (Fotons, Melz, and Reflektors) seem to need about 25 hours just to become listenable.  They get nice at about 50, but don't really hit their stride until after 100.  But that's just my experience, and by no means a universal truth.


----------



## antoramp

bcowen said:


> From out of the box all new and shiny, plug it in and let it play for a full day, then start enjoying it.


Ok perfect! Thank You


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> My Lyr took about 20 hours to start sounding really good.  Continued but increasingly smaller improvements all the way up to about 200 hours, after which I wasn't able to discern any further change.  My suggestion?  From out of the box all new and shiny, plug it in and let it play for a full day, then start enjoying it.
> 
> Tubes depend on the tube.  Some (like the Ken-Rad and '60's vintage Sylvania) start sounding pretty darn good after 10-15 hours.  They continue to refine after that, but the bulk of the break-in occurs quickly.  Russian tubes that I've tried (Fotons, Melz, and Reflektors) seem to need about 25 hours just to become listenable.  They get nice at about 50, but don't really hit their stride until after 100.  But that's just my experience, and by no means a universal truth.


Somewhat similar experience here.   I think after a week of use (on 8 hours a day, 5 days a week) it was pretty stable.  I couldn't say with any certainty that it sounds different now from then.   It doesn't seem like it does.

I do not think that it is critical for a full day burn in before listening, but you'd probably detect less of a change if you did that.  I started listening to it cold and straight out of the box.


----------



## earnmyturns

A great modern orchestral test for Lyr 3: Kalevi Aho's _Timpani Concerto_, BIS2306. Timpani attack and decay very well rendered in 3D.


----------



## Cashy (May 2, 2018)

XERO1 said:


> I would definitely recommend the Lyr 3 over the Jot.  See my brief thoughts about why here.
> 
> And you actually have a couple options for getting a multibit DAC for it without causing issues with customs.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the reply, the Modi Multibit DAC separately seems the best way to go considering with the extra options.

I was scared of customs when buying the lyr 3 with a multi dac since it topples over 1k but this has made it too easy!

Decision made!


----------



## erics75

Cashy said:


> Thank you for the reply, the Modi Multibit DAC separately seems the best way to go considering with the extra options.
> 
> I was scared of customs when buying the lyr 3 with a multi dac since it topples over 1k but this has made it too easy!
> 
> Decision made!


what headphones are you using? system synergy sometimes trumps general performance. i totally agree that in general, the lyr is a better amp vs the jot. but... if you have a slow, dark headphone, say the hd650, then i'd say the jot is the better amp due to it's synergy with the 650. on the flip side, if you're rocking something fast and lean/bright, like an hd800, the lyr would be the better amp due to synergy. i do conceed for most situations, the lyr would sound better than the jot overall. just playing devil's advocate


----------



## Natarian

I would choose Lyr 3 over Jot.


----------



## Wes S (May 2, 2018)

Cashy said:


> Thank you for the reply, the Modi Multibit DAC separately seems the best way to go considering with the extra options.
> 
> I was scared of customs when buying the lyr 3 with a multi dac since it topples over 1k but this has made it too easy!
> 
> Decision made!





erics75 said:


> what headphones are you using? system synergy sometimes trumps general performance. i totally agree that in general, the lyr is a better amp vs the jot. but... if you have a slow, dark headphone, say the hd650, then i'd say the jot is the better amp due to it's synergy with the 650. on the flip side, if you're rocking something fast and lean/bright, like an hd800, the lyr would be the better amp due to synergy. i do conceed for most situations, the lyr would sound better than the jot overall. just playing devil's advocate


The one and possibly only situation, where I would recommend the Jot, over the Lyr 3 is with the HD 650's.  That pairing is perfection, with a balanced cable on high gain.


----------



## erics75

Wes S said:


> The one situation, where I would recommend the Jot, over the Lyr 3 is with the HD 650's.  That pairing is perfection, with a balanced cable on high gain.


yeah, the synergy of the jot with balanced 650 is insane. i've heard setups costing many times as much not sound as good. so far with the TS tube from schiit, i find the lyr 3/hd650 pairing kinda boring. at least in comparison to the jot. detail and extension are fine, it's just too smooth sounding. i prefer the jot's more dynamic and aggressive presentation. but on all my other headphones, the lyr sounds better than the jot, imo.


----------



## chef8489

Well I ordered it today with overnight shipping and the second tube.. Hopefully it ships out tomorrow. Once it arrives if I like it then I can sell my mimby and vali 2 with all my tubes for it and adapters.


----------



## jamesofla80

Is anyone coming from a Lake or Vioelectric amp? Wondering how the Lyr might compare.


----------



## XERO1

Wes S said:


> The one and possibly only situation, where I would recommend the Jot, over the Lyr 3 is with the HD 650's.  That pairing is perfection, with a balanced cable on high gain.







I guess you need some pretty heavy artillery to pierce that Sennheiser Veil_*!!*_


----------



## bgbkt

erics75 said:


> what headphones are you using? system synergy sometimes trumps general performance. i totally agree that in general, the lyr is a better amp vs the jot. but... if you have a slow, dark headphone, say the hd650, then i'd say the jot is the better amp due to it's synergy with the 650. on the flip side, if you're rocking something fast and lean/bright, like an hd800, the lyr would be the better amp due to synergy. i do conceed for most situations, the lyr would sound better than the jot overall. just playing devil's advocate



How about Focal Clear? Does it have good synergy with those headphones.


----------



## erics75

bgbkt said:


> How about Focal Clear? Does it have good synergy with those headphones.


Sorry, I've not heard the Clear yet so I'd only be speculating. I will say I hated the Elear with the Jot, the treble was way too hot for my tastes. I never got to try the Elear on the Lyr. Not sure how the Clear and Elear compare to each other.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bgbkt said:


> How about Focal Clear? Does it have good synergy with those headphones.



I’m using the Focal Clear with the Lyr 3, with very positive results. The great tone, timing, and micro/macrodynamics remain, but the soundstage is both deeper and wider (Tube dependent).


----------



## hepcat11

I have a Pangea TT stand:

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Vulcan-Turntable-Storage/dp/B07B5HR9D9

I am thinking about the Lyr3 for the tube warmth output to headphones while the line stage goes to a pair of Sonos5.

Will the shelf clearance be enough for the amp/tube combo? Or will the tube make the top shelf too hot and be a melt/fire hazard?


----------



## Motocrossman24 (May 3, 2018)

hepcat11 said:


> I have a Pangea TT stand:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Vulcan-Turntable-Storage/dp/B07B5HR9D9
> 
> ...



Hard to tell how big it is from the pic, I’d say the lyr is roughly 4-5” tall with tube installed, and I don’t think you have to worry of a tube melting anything unless it’s places dirrectly on it...even with running a full day, the amp/tube is warm to the touch, and probably radiating a little heat, but I doubt if you held your hand 5-6” over the tube you would notice anything worthy of concearn.

My lyr3 is set right next to my pc monitor with the tube maybe 5” away from the corner of the monitor and it hasn’t melted anything yet


----------



## Cashy

erics75 said:


> what headphones are you using? system synergy sometimes trumps general performance. i totally agree that in general, the lyr is a better amp vs the jot. but... if you have a slow, dark headphone, say the hd650, then i'd say the jot is the better amp due to it's synergy with the 650. on the flip side, if you're rocking something fast and lean/bright, like an hd800, the lyr would be the better amp due to synergy. i do conceed for most situations, the lyr would sound better than the jot overall. just playing devil's advocate



Using the hd660s, which seems to be more of a combination between the 600 and 700 instead of the 650. Can't hear any veil aswell.


----------



## mwayned

I just received a new Lyr 3 this evening - got it unpacked and stacked on top of my Bimby multibit, and am doing some uncritical listening with my ZMF Atticus while letting the amp warm up.  Just to level-set my impressions of the amp, and to spare tube life for my small collection of 6SN7's I'm using it with the LISST for the first 2-3 days.  So - these first few hours are likely to be the *worst* the amp will sound, and honestly, it's pretty good to my ears.  My other cans are LCD 2.1 and HD650.  I'll post an update once I've let the amp fully break in and play with the real tubes.


----------



## chef8489

Alas it arrived. Starting off with the Tung Sol.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> Alas it arrived. Starting off with the Tung Sol.



Nice pics (as usual)!  Yours looks newer than mine.


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> Nice pics (as usual)!  Yours looks newer than mine.


I put my 1958 Foton in. Decided since it was pretty much burnt in would sound better.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> I put my 1958 Foton in. Decided since it was pretty much burnt in would sound better.



I like my '58's best.  I think it's because they correspond to a remarkable year in the annals of mankind.  But I'm dating myself...


----------



## tafens

I’m thinking of getting the Lyr3 (will be using HD600/HD6xx headphones mostly). Would the Lyr3 work well with those headphones, and what tube would pair best with them?

(And would using the LISST in Lyr3 sort of make it into a Jotunheim?)


----------



## tafens

mwayned said:


> I just received a new Lyr 3 this evening - got it unpacked and stacked on top of my Bimby multibit, and am doing some uncritical listening with my ZMF Atticus while letting the amp warm up.  Just to level-set my impressions of the amp, and to spare tube life for my small collection of 6SN7's I'm using it with the LISST for the first 2-3 days.  So - these first few hours are likely to be the *worst* the amp will sound, and honestly, it's pretty good to my ears.  My other cans are LCD 2.1 and HD650.  I'll post an update once I've let the amp fully break in and play with the real tubes.



Please do, I would especially love to hear about the HD650 with real tube and with LISST


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> I’m thinking of getting the Lyr3 (will be using HD600/HD6xx headphones mostly). Would the Lyr3 work well with those headphones, and what tube would pair best with them?
> 
> (And would using the LISST in Lyr3 sort of make it into a Jotunheim?)



_"(And would using the LISST in Lyr3 sort of make it into a Jotunheim?)"_

Yes.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Rando here with 1st post ever...

I have spent a week with Lyr 3 and although I like it, I actually think I’m going to stick with my Asgard 2. 

I have listened to it mostly with Sennheiser HD650, which some have mentioned may not be best paring.


----------



## chef8489

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Rando here with 1st post ever...
> 
> I have spent a week with Lyr 3 and although I like it, I actually think I’m going to stick with my Asgard 2.
> 
> I have listened to it mostly with Sennheiser HD650, which some have mentioned may not be best paring.


Sorry you dont care for it. I think the hd650 foes well with tubes. What did you not like?


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

chef8489 said:


> Sorry you dont care for it. I think the hd650 foes well with tubes. What did you not like?



I do like it, it sounds great. Just not enough to pay double the price of my current amp. I was expecting a big jump in performance after all the reviews I had been reading. I’m certainly not disappointed with it. 

I think the soundstage is definitely improved compared to Asgard, but otherwise pretty close in SQ.


----------



## chef8489

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I do like it, it sounds great. Just not enough to pay double the price of my current amp. I was expecting a big jump in performance after all the reviews I had been reading. I’m certainly not disappointed with it.
> 
> I think the soundstage is definitely improved compared to Asgard, but otherwise pretty close in SQ.


Maybe you need to change tubes or change headphones lol. Jk. I always say pay as little as you can to make you happy.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

chef8489 said:


> Maybe you need to change tubes or change headphones lol. Jk. I always say pay as little as you can to make you happy.




Maybe. I’ve only heard the 2 stock tubes from Schiit so far.


----------



## XERO1

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I do like it, it sounds great. Just not enough to pay double the price of my current amp. I was expecting a big jump in performance after all the reviews I had been reading. I’m certainly not disappointed with it.
> 
> I think the soundstage is definitely improved compared to Asgard, but otherwise pretty close in SQ.


Make sure you have the Lyr 3's gain switch set to Low.  With my Lyr 2, when its gain switch is set to High, everything becomes way too forward sounding and a lot of its natural resolution is lost.  At first, the High gain setting sounds more impressive and exciting, but over time it starts to get pretty fatiguing. 

The same is true for my Jot as well, but even more so.  It's practically unlistenable to me when it's gain is set to High.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0 (May 4, 2018)

XERO1 said:


> Make sure you have the Lyr 3's gain switch set to Low.  With my Lyr 2, when its gain switch is set to High, everything becomes way too forward sounding and a lot of its natural resolution is lost.  At first, the High gain setting sounds more impressive and exciting, but over time it starts to get pretty fatiguing.
> 
> The same is true for my Jot as well, but even more so.  It's practically unlistenable to me when it's gain is set to High.



That’s good to know. I have been listening almost exclusively on high gain. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## chef8489

XERO1 said:


> Make sure you have the Lyr 3's gain switch set to Low.  With my Lyr 2, when its gain switch is set to High, everything becomes way too forward sounding and a lot of its natural resolution is lost.  At first, the High gain setting sounds more impressive and exciting, but over time it starts to get pretty fatiguing.
> 
> The same is true for my Jot as well, but even more so.  It's practically unlistenable to me when it's gain is set to High.


That really depends on your headphones.


----------



## XERO1

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> That’s good to know. I have been listening almost exclusively on high gain. Thanks for the advice!


No problem.  Make sure to give yourself some time to adjust to it, because it might sound a little underwhelming at first, but after your brain adjusts to it, you just might like it!


----------



## XERO1

chef8489 said:


> That really depends on your headphones.


This is true.  If you have super-laidback sounding headphones, then maybe High gain might be the better choice. 
But if your headphones are neutral-to-bright_ish_ sounding, then High gain may be a little (or a lot) too much.


----------



## chef8489

XERO1 said:


> This is true.  If you have super-laidback sounding headphones, then maybe High gain might be the better choice.
> But if your headphones are neutral-to-bright_ish_ sounding, then High gain may be a little (or a lot) too much.


Yes that or if your headphones are higher impedance and require more power.


----------



## Motocrossman24

tafens said:


> I’m thinking of getting the Lyr3 (will be using HD600/HD6xx headphones mostly). Would the Lyr3 work well with those headphones, and what tube would pair best with them?
> 
> (And would using the LISST in Lyr3 sort of make it into a Jotunheim?)[/QUOT
> 
> I thought the lyr3 worked amazing with the hd600 and helped remove so of its vail... can’t comment on the 6xx but I’d assume similar synergy...it’s been quite unanimous that the lisst tube is an inferior way of using this amp...while I personally don’t think it sounds bad, every single tube I’ve run through the amp sounds better.


----------



## chef8489

Here are some shots of my tube glow with my 1958 Foton 6n8s


----------



## XERO1

chef8489 said:


> Here are some shots of my tube glow with my 1958 Foton 6n8s


How’s it sound?


----------



## chef8489

XERO1 said:


> How’s it sound?


I am really enjoying it. Love how it sounds especially with my LCD2C


----------



## bcowen

XERO1 said:


> How’s it sound?



I have '53, '58, '64, and some just arrived '59 Fotons (haven't listened to those yet).  The '53 and '58 sound very similar if not identical, and both are a little better than the '64.  There's something about these tubes that is causing me sleep deprivation, 'cause I just can't stop listening until way past bedtime.  It's not any particular area that stands out -- no 'wow, awesome bass' or 'OMG, what a soundstage,' etc.  I think it's the PRaT (Pace/Rhythm/Timing) thing that's going on -- foot tap, switching out air guitars, dancing around in your underwear kinda thing (sorry...hope you can _un_-visualize that).  Although I'm still a newbie in the headphone world with quite limited 'phone exposure and experience, the Lyr 3 with these tubes into the Aeons is a very special combination.


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2018)

Awesome stuff!  I have had similar, experience with my Lyr 3 and KenRad tube.  Every night since I have gotten the thing, has been a late one.  I have been staying up listening, way past my normal bed time.  Loving it!


----------



## FLTWS

Wes S said:


> Awesome stuff!  I have had similar, experience with my Lyr 3 and KenRad tube.  Every night since I have gotten the thing, has been a late one.  I have been staying up listening, way past my normal bed time.  Loving it!



Just ordered a Ken-Rad from Brent, should be here by Wed. That will complete my stash of 9, (including the stock Tung-Sol). The other 8 are burned in and ready to start listening comparisons next week.


----------



## Sonic Steven

Wondering if anyone has any impressions of the Lyr 3 with the Sony Z1R's...?

Recently got some used Sony's to go along with my TH-X00, and my current Magni 2 Uber seems to be holding them back (using Modi Multibit in the chain). Using highly scientific terminology, they lack the "energy" I was expecting to find. Detail and extension are pretty good, they just seem to lack in the dynamics department. Because of this, I had also been eyeing a Jot, and am curious about thoughts you all can provide between the 2 amps and the Z1R's. Perhaps I'm also falsely thinking here, as I can only compare the Z1R's to the TH-X00, and the Fostex drivers are pretty quick/impactful regardless of source to my ears. Shoot, driving those straight from an iPhone X can render a bass drum in a fun manner!


----------



## XERO1 (May 5, 2018)

Sonic Steven said:


> Wondering if anyone has any impressions of the Lyr 3 with the Sony Z1R's...?
> 
> Recently got some used Sony's to go along with my TH-X00, and my current Magni 2 Uber seems to be holding them back (using Modi Multibit in the chain). Using highly scientific terminology, they lack the "energy" I was expecting to find. Detail and extension are pretty good, they just seem to lack in the dynamics department. Because of this, I had also been eyeing a Jot, and am curious about thoughts you all can provide between the 2 amps and the Z1R's. Perhaps I'm also falsely thinking here, as I can only compare the Z1R's to the TH-X00, and the Fostex drivers are pretty quick/impactful regardless of source to my ears. Shoot, driving those straight from an iPhone X can render a bass drum in a fun manner!


The first few times I heard the Z1R, I was not a fan.  But after hearing them again recently, I have begun to warm up to them a little more and now find them to be 'enjoyable' but far from perfect. I still think my TH-X00 EB with Dakoni Hybrid pads and rings are an overall better sounding headphone, they're just not as comfortable or well made.  But at 1/4 the price of the Z1R, I'm not complaining!

As far as the amp is concerned, your Magni 2U is definitely the weakest link in your system.  I think my Lyr 2 sounds noticeably better than my Jot, and the Lyr 3 would be even better still.  It will really raise your system's SQ up a big notch!


----------



## chef8489

Threw the Tung-Sol 6sn7gtb back in today and thought I would get some shots tonight with it.  Just remember these are just crappy phone pics.


----------



## Zachik

chef8489 said:


> Threw the Tung-Sol 6sn7gtb back in today and thought I would get some shots tonight with it.  Just remember these are just crappy phone pics.


Is that the Schiit stock TS tube?!
Mine does not glow......


----------



## chef8489

Zachik said:


> Is that the Schiit stock TS tube?!
> Mine does not glow......


Yes it is the stock upgraded tube from Schiit.


----------



## Zachik

chef8489 said:


> Yes it is the stock upgraded tube from Schiit.


OK - will try in the dark and see if mine glows or not...


----------



## chef8489

Zachik said:


> OK - will try in the dark and see if mine glows or not...


Ok let us know. Mine glows dimly in the day as well but you notice it better in the dark.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Sonic Steven said:


> Wondering if anyone has any impressions of the Lyr 3 with the Sony Z1R's...?
> 
> Recently got some used Sony's to go along with my TH-X00, and my current Magni 2 Uber seems to be holding them back (using Modi Multibit in the chain). Using highly scientific terminology, they lack the "energy" I was expecting to find. Detail and extension are pretty good, they just seem to lack in the dynamics department. Because of this, I had also been eyeing a Jot, and am curious about thoughts you all can provide between the 2 amps and the Z1R's. Perhaps I'm also falsely thinking here, as I can only compare the Z1R's to the TH-X00, and the Fostex drivers are pretty quick/impactful regardless of source to my ears. Shoot, driving those straight from an iPhone X can render a bass drum in a fun manner!


I liked my foster headphones so much, but at the end of the day, comfort of the stock pads killed it for me.  One thing I can say about them is that they sound great from less expensive sources.  The problem with them is that they don't really scale well as you go up the amp food chain.  

That's where I think the Z1R is different.  It does scale well, and yet isn't as picky about amp pairing as the HD800.  The Lyr 3 might be a fantastic amp for the Z1R as it has tons of power, has amazing impact and control, and better staging than almost all other Schiit amps I've heard.  I'd be very interested to hear this combo.


----------



## Zachik

chef8489 said:


> Ok let us know. Mine glows dimly in the day as well but you notice it better in the dark.


Tested in the dark. It glows VERY faintly...
Not that it matters - we're in it for the audio, but still a nice glow is a plus


----------



## chef8489

Zachik said:


> Tested in the dark. It glows VERY faintly...
> Not that it matters - we're in it for the audio, but still a nice glow is a plus


Yep i love the tube glow, but sound matters more.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Zachik said:


> Tested in the dark. It glows VERY faintly...
> Not that it matters - we're in it for the audio, but still a nice glow is a plus




Mine doesn’t seem to glow that much either...sounds good though.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> Yep i love the tube glow, but sound matters more.



You guys have your priorities all screwed up.


----------



## Sonic Steven

XERO1 said:


> The first few times I heard the Z1R, I was not a fan.  But after hearing them again recently, I have begun to warm up to them a little more and now find them to be 'enjoyable' but far from perfect. I still think my TH-X00 EB with Dakoni Hybrid pads and rings are an overall better sounding headphone, they're just not as comfortable or well made.  But at 1/4 the price of the Z1R, I'm not complaining!
> 
> As far as the amp is concerned, your Magni 2U is definitely the weakest link in your system.  I think my Lyr 2 sounds noticeably better than my Jot, and the Lyr 3 would be even better still.  It will really raise your system's SQ up a big notch!





ProfFalkin said:


> I liked my foster headphones so much, but at the end of the day, comfort of the stock pads killed it for me.  One thing I can say about them is that they sound great from less expensive sources.  The problem with them is that they don't really scale well as you go up the amp food chain.
> 
> That's where I think the Z1R is different.  It does scale well, and yet isn't as picky about amp pairing as the HD800.  The Lyr 3 might be a fantastic amp for the Z1R as it has tons of power, has amazing impact and control, and better staging than almost all other Schiit amps I've heard.  I'd be very interested to hear this combo.



Thanks for the responses. I’ll have to continue to research and perhaps give this schiit a try! I think the Z1R’s will benefit from a hybrid like the Lyr 3, cause they are quite the “smooth” headphone, so the detail retrieval from the Lyr 3, plus its slight “soul” from a bit of tube influence sounds like a good combo - especially at the price point. I wasn’t quite ready to drop $1,500-$2,000 on an unheard amp at this point (like the new Sony offering, a Wells Milo, or a Woo WA8, all 3 supposedly sounding good with the Z1R’s).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

chef8489 said:


> Threw the Tung-Sol 6sn7gtb back in today and thought I would get some shots tonight with it.  Just remember these are just crappy phone pics.



Beautiful, and dutifully pointed towards Durham.


----------



## FLTWS

Did some listening last night with a  Raytheon 6SN7GT - 1940's vintage, for the first time. This is one great sounding headphone amp. 
Wasn't expecting much difference between the stock Tung-Sol and the Raytheon but was pleasantly surprised. 
The midrange with the Raytheon was a bit more "there", and the highs a bit more extended but never harsh or brittle.
The bass is all there and in nice quantity and control but maybe the Tung-Sol's overall balance favors the lower frequencies giving the impression that
it's more prominent than with the Raytheon.

I've got a Ken-Rad on the way, I think that will be my next non-stock listen-to before I dive into the others I have.


----------



## antoramp

So I ended up ordering the Lyr 3 (230V) through the US Schiit Website... I hope not to get busted with the custom clearance’s taxes... then I ordered a couple of Ken-Rad VT-231 Black glass... I’ve only a question: the seller said that the tubes have 3.5/3.6 and 3.6/3.6 as parameters ( with standard 2.6/2.6 )... what do this numbers mean? Are those related to the quality of the tube? Thank you


----------



## FLTWS

antoramp said:


> So I ended up ordering the Lyr 3 (230V) through the US Schiit Website... I hope not to get busted with the custom clearance’s taxes... then I ordered a couple of Ken-Rad VT-231 Black glass... I’ve only a question: the seller said that the tubes have 3.5/3.6 and 3.6/3.6 as parameters ( with standard 2.6/2.6 )... what do this numbers mean? Are those related to the quality of the tube? Thank you



I'd guess as these are twin triodes (I think) the numbers on either side of the slash (/) might have something to do with the electrical performance / matching of each half of the tube.
I also have a number of 6DJ8's and 12AU7's as well as few 6SN7's that have T1 and T2 numbers like T1 =28000 T2= 28300 which looks like the same sort of thing. Maybe helpful for sellers putting together matched pairs. 

But ask the seller, it would be interesting to know. I'm also sure there are some tube guys here that know all that stuff; book, chapter and verse.


----------



## bcowen

antoramp said:


> So I ended up ordering the Lyr 3 (230V) through the US Schiit Website... I hope not to get busted with the custom clearance’s taxes... then I ordered a couple of Ken-Rad VT-231 Black glass... I’ve only a question: the seller said that the tubes have 3.5/3.6 and 3.6/3.6 as parameters ( with standard 2.6/2.6 )... what do this numbers mean? Are those related to the quality of the tube? Thank you



Without knowing what tester the seller is using, it's hard to know if those are emissions values or gM (transconductance) values.  gM is a better test than emission, and I'm guessing (but _only_ guessing) that numbers like that are probably emissions values.  As a super-simplified explanation, the values (whether emission or gM) represent the amount of gain the tube has.  Most testers give either new values (the value a new tube should have), or alternatively minimum values (the minimum numbers a tube should have to be considered a good tube).  The sellers numbers are 'minimum good,' meaning the tubes are not worn out.  What you can't determine from those numbers is what a new tube should be.  Is 3.6 close to a new value?  Or is a new tube 15?  Hard to know unless you can get the seller to fill you in.   The numbers on either side of the slash are the values for the two triodes in the tube.  As our beloved Lyr 3 only uses one tube, it uses one triode in the tube for the left channel, and the other triode for the right channel, so it's important to get a tube with those two numbers as close together as possible, if not matched perfectly (which very few tubes are).  From that standpoint you're in good shape, as the "gain" on both triodes in each tube is extremely close.


----------



## Motocrossman24

antoramp said:


> So I ended up ordering the Lyr 3 (230V) through the US Schiit Website... I hope not to get busted with the custom clearance’s taxes... then I ordered a couple of Ken-Rad VT-231 Black glass... I’ve only a question: the seller said that the tubes have 3.5/3.6 and 3.6/3.6 as parameters ( with standard 2.6/2.6 )... what do this numbers mean? Are those related to the quality of the tube? Thank you



It probably means he faked the numbers or doesn’t quite know how to work his tester/didn’t set it up for the tubes specs...that’s wayyyyy above a factory new tubes values...doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’m always Leary seeing tubes rated at 150% life.


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> It probably means he faked the numbers or doesn’t quite know how to work his tester/didn’t set it up for the tubes specs...that’s wayyyyy above a factory new tubes values...doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’m always Leary seeing tubes rated at 150% life.



From the description of "standard 2.6/2.6" it's impossible to know if that refers to a new tube reading or a minimum good reading.  If the former, then yes the test numbers are highly suspect.  If the latter, then there's nothing particularly suspicious, but we still don't know from that what a new tube _should_ measure.  My Hickok provides only minimum good numbers -- for a 6SN7, it's 400 micromohs, and most of the NOS tubes I test measure in the 750 - 800 range.


----------



## Motocrossman24

bcowen said:


> From the description of "standard 2.6/2.6" it's impossible to know if that refers to a new tube reading or a minimum good reading.  If the former, then yes the test numbers are highly suspect.  If the latter, then there's nothing particularly suspicious, but we still don't know from that what a new tube _should_ measure.  My Hickok provides only minimum good numbers -- for a 6SN7, it's 400 micromohs, and most of the NOS tubes I test measure in the 750 - 800 range.


2600 is the average manufacture given gm  value for a nos tube. Not impossible, just some quick google.


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> 2600 is the average manufacture given gm  value for a nos tube. Not impossible, just some quick google.



2600 is not a universal number. With the manufacturer's specified settings on my 752A tester, 2600 would be 1100 beyond the max meter travel.  It's 1640 for a Hickok 539C.  I had a B&K in the past that was somewhere in the 10k range (been a while). It depends on what tester is being used and what scale that tester operates on, and the numbers are irrelevant without that information.


----------



## antoramp

bcowen said:


> 2600 is not a universal number. With the manufacturer's specified settings on my 752A tester, 2600 would be 1100 beyond the max meter travel.  It's 1640 for a Hickok 539C.  I had a B&K in the past that was somewhere in the 10k range (been a while). It depends on what tester is being used and what scale that tester operates on, and the numbers are irrelevant without that information.


He said that the tester used was an Avo Meter... I don’t know if that is sufficient


----------



## Motocrossman24

antoramp said:


> He said that the tester used was an Avo Meter... I don’t know if that is sufficient



I wouldn’t worry about it honestly...if you bought from a reputable tube vendor online then your fine, and if they suck they’ll let you return them...if you bought on eBay, it’s a gamble regardless who you go through. There just isn’t anyone holding anyone accountable on eBay, and people can write what they want whether they tested something or not. If you did your research and the tubes look real, even if they’re not brand new they’ll be nice. Hopefully the guy u bought from has a good return policy if something doesn’t seem right to you, but I’m sure you’ll be fine.


----------



## antoramp (May 8, 2018)

Motocrossman24 said:


> I wouldn’t worry about it honestly...if you bought from a reputable tube vendor online then your fine, and if they suck they’ll let you return them...if you bought on eBay, it’s a gamble regardless who you go through. There just isn’t anyone holding anyone accountable on eBay, and people can write what they want whether they tested something or not. If you did your research and the tubes look real, even if they’re not brand new they’ll be nice. Hopefully the guy u bought from has a good return policy if something doesn’t seem right to you, but I’m sure you’ll be fine.


I bought them on eBay... from a 100% feedback seller ( he’s selling only vintage audio systems or tubes or vintage spare parts... ) If they’re broken or for somewhat they aren’t what I’ve payed for ( more or less 230$ ) I’ll use the PayPal return policy... in photos they look the same as the standard Ken-Rad VT-231... so hope for the best  p.s. You calmed me a lot with this latest message...


----------



## Motocrossman24

If you plan to “roll” more tubes I would highly recommend finding a tube vendor in your country or somewhere u won’t get nailed by customs...while there are decent deals on eBay every now and then, you really have to do you homework and know what is what, and how much everything should cost. There’s a lot of price gowgers on eBay. Most the time I find better deals and better quality from online vendors with an actual website.


----------



## antoramp

Motocrossman24 said:


> If you plan to “roll” more tubes I would highly recommend finding a tube vendor in your country or somewhere u won’t get nailed by customs...while there are decent deals on eBay every now and then, you really have to do you homework and know what is what, and how much everything should cost. There’s a lot of price gowgers on eBay. Most the time I find better deals and better quality from online vendors with an actual website.


Ok ok I heard about Brent Jesse... many say that he has good stuff... but the problem was that summing up shipment and customs, I needed to pay more or less 140-150$ for a single tube... while with this eBay seller I don’t need to pay any custom taxes because he’s in Europe... so I compared the prices per tube ( 90$ from Jesse and 110$ from this seller ), I checked the feedbacks and I thought that those tubes could be original and good ( also he said that they were NOS ) ... I’ll let you now when both tubes and Lyr 3 arrive


----------



## JamesCanada

Anyone running E-Mu Teak's on the Lyr 3?
Also the Oppo PM3's?
I'm just more and more into this amp and i'm about one finger away from pulling the trigger.
It seems like it's got the sound, quality and looks I want.


----------



## bcowen

Motocrossman24 said:


> I wouldn’t worry about it honestly...if you bought from a reputable tube vendor online then your fine, and if they suck they’ll let you return them...if you bought on eBay, it’s a gamble regardless who you go through. There just isn’t anyone holding anyone accountable on eBay, and people can write what they want whether they tested something or not. If you did your research and the tubes look real, even if they’re not brand new they’ll be nice. Hopefully the guy u bought from has a good return policy if something doesn’t seem right to you, but I’m sure you’ll be fine.



Agree completely.


----------



## chef8489

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone running E-Mu Teak's on the Lyr 3?
> Also the Oppo PM3's?
> I'm just more and more into this amp and i'm about one finger away from pulling the trigger.
> It seems like it's got the sound, quality and looks I want.


Truthfully neither one of those really need that much power and low gain woyld be enough or the vali 2 would be enough on low gain. The Lyr 3 is overkill. However they would sound great on the lyr 3.


----------



## JamesCanada

I also own Hd 6XX and would like to get either Aeon's or LCD2C, so i'm trying to make this a bit future-proof.
Also, the fact that I can swap tubes and a tad on sound signature is something that interests me immensely.


----------



## Egon

Hey guys I currently have the Fostex HP-A3 Amp/Dac and I was thinking about upgrading it.

Would the Eitr + Mumby + Lyr 3 be a good upgrade from the Fostex?

I have the Sennheiser HD700 and Shure SRH1540 headphones.

Thanks so much for your response!


----------



## chef8489

JamesCanada said:


> I also own Hd 6XX and would like to get either Aeon's or LCD2C, so i'm trying to make this a bit future-proof.
> Also, the fact that I can swap tubes and a tad on sound signature is something that interests me immensely.


Well in that case yes it is a great upgrade for the hd6xx as well as either the Aeon or the Lcd.


----------



## Cashy

sigh my Mimby is still backordered from the 5/3/18 due to no Australian Wallmarts and Schiit doesn't respond to emails.


----------



## antoramp

Cashy said:


> sigh my Mimby is still backordered from the 5/3/18 due to no Australian Wallmarts and Schiit doesn't respond to emails.


I ordered the Lyr 3 through the US website last Thursday and still no news on shipping... maybe they’re pretty busy with orders... I’ve emailed them this morning, I’ll post updates if they say something


----------



## Cashy

I ordered last Thursday aswell, weird they don't send emails when delay with orders. They do send emails when they ship your item tho.


----------



## antoramp (May 9, 2018)

Cashy said:


> I ordered last Thursday aswell, weird they don't send emails when delay with orders. They do send emails when they ship your item tho.


They replied me... they said that there are some problems with parts and the shipment will be in few weeks... I don’t know for any other product thow...


----------



## bgbkt

Cashy said:


> sigh my Mimby is still backordered from the 5/3/18 due to no Australian Wallmarts and Schiit doesn't respond to emails.



I sent couple of emails to Schiit but didn’t get any response. Looks like they are swamped with Lyr3.


----------



## bcowen

Cashy said:


> sigh my Mimby is still backordered from the 5/3/18 due to no Australian Wallmarts and Schiit doesn't respond to emails.



_...due to no Australian Wallmarts
_
I consider that an extremely positive attribute of your country.


----------



## cebuboy

antoramp said:


> I ordered the Lyr 3 through the US website last Thursday and still no news on shipping... maybe they’re pretty busy with orders... I’ve emailed them this morning, I’ll post updates if they say something


Ordered mine May 2, shipped May 4 while their rep told me the 230V will be delayed for a few weeks. That was fast.


----------



## chef8489

Here is the stock 6H8c tube. the glass is a bit loose, but Schiit said if if it goes out in 90 days they would replace it


----------



## JamesCanada

Great review here : https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-schiit-lyr-3

All I can say is: who the hell puts butter in their sandwich....


----------



## XERO1 (May 29, 2018)

JamesCanada said:


> Great review here : https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-schiit-lyr-3


Sorry, these guys are smoking crack.

They _*seriously*_ think (and this is not a joke) that the Magni 3 is _the best sounding amp they have *ever* heard_, at *any* price! 

I used to own a Magni 3, and my Lyr 2 _*blew*_ it away!

So....um.... yeah.


----------



## thecrow

XERO1 said:


> Sorry, these guys are smoking crack.  They _seriously_ think (this is not a joke) that the Magni 3 is the _best sounding amp they have ever heard_, at any price!
> 
> I used to own a Magni 3, and I sold it because my Lyr 2 _*blew*_ it away!
> 
> So....um.... yeah.


I skim read the article and they rated the magni 3 as the best if value is part of the  equation ($99)


----------



## chef8489

JamesCanada said:


> Great review here : https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-schiit-lyr-3
> 
> All I can say is: who the hell puts butter in their sandwich....


The Brits


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

XERO1 said:


> Sorry, these guys are smoking crack.  They _seriously_ think (this is not a joke) that the Magni 3 is the _best sounding amp they have ever heard_, at any price!
> 
> I used to own a Magni 3, and I sold it because my Lyr 2 _*blew*_ it away!
> 
> So....um.... yeah.




They also call Lyr 3 “a big, lumbering tube amp“


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 11, 2018)

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> They also call Lyr 3 “a big, lumbering tube amp“


Yeah, sorry guys. Anyone want to buy my Lyr? I'm going to run out and buy a Burson like right now.  My last one sounded like cardboard, and I couldn't sell it fast enough, but the Play has to be better, because... OP Amps.

Hehehe

Seriously though, while I thought there were a few things I could relate to in that review to my experiences with the Lyr 3, my lingering thoughts were that the reviewer and I must have very different preferences and experience with gear.  I didn't really agree with many of the good or bad aspects cited in the review.

Thanks for the article link.


----------



## JRey

Hey everyone. New to the forums and I’d like some advise. 
I recently got a Jot with G2 4490 DAC, Cavalli CTH and Liquid Carbon X. 
Headphones are HD600 and HE4xx (balanced cables, also have single ended adapters). 
With the Lyr 3 out, I’m debating returning the Jot in favor of the Lyr with both the TS and LISST tubes. My problem is, I haven’t found enough clear impressions to compare the Jot and the Lyr with the LISST or TS tube. 
My goal with the Jot is to have a neutral, clear and analytical-sounding setup and if the Lyr with either tube can do that, I’ll make the return. 

Thanks. 
-JRey


----------



## Zachik

JRey said:


> Hey everyone. New to the forums and I’d like some advise.
> I recently got a Jot with G2 4490 DAC, Cavalli CTH and Liquid Carbon X.
> Headphones are HD600 and HE4xx (balanced cables, also have single ended adapters).
> With the Lyr 3 out, I’m debating returning the Jot in favor of the Lyr with both the TS and LISST tubes. My problem is, I haven’t found enough clear impressions to compare the Jot and the Lyr with the LISST or TS tube.
> ...


I personally found the Jot to be too analytical to my tastes, and sold it.
I am much happier with the Lyr3 with Schiit's TS tube.
For me, Jot is better for people who like analytical sound, and Lyr3 for those who prefer a more "musical" or "fun" sound. Still very detailed, and not much colored, but easier on the ears / brain (FOR ME). YMMV...


----------



## JRey

Zachik said:


> I personally found the Jot to be too analytical to my tastes, and sold it.
> I am much happier with the Lyr3 with Schiit's TS tube.
> For me, Jot is better for people who like analytical sound, and Lyr3 for those who prefer a more "musical" or "fun" sound. Still very detailed, and not much colored, but easier on the ears / brain (FOR ME). YMMV...


Thanks for the feedback! What tube were you using?
I have the CTH and LCX for that smoother, more musical feel with tube/SS.


----------



## Zachik

I did write "...Lyr3 with Schiit's TS tube" - that is the $25 Tung Sol tube option from Schiit.
Did not try any other tube.
I do own the LCX and CTH as well. Lyr3 is or feels a little more detailed or neutral (less warm) than them, but still pleasantly so (unlike Jot, to MY ears).


----------



## JRey

Zachik said:


> I did write "...Lyr3 with Schiit's TS tube" - that is the $25 Tung Sol tube option from Schiit.
> Did not try any other tube.
> I do own the LCX and CTH as well. Lyr3 is or feels a little more detailed or neutral (less warm) than them, but still pleasantly so (unlike Jot, to MY ears).


Lol I completely missed your mention of the tube. My bad. 
Thanks again for your responses.


----------



## erics75 (May 11, 2018)

JRey said:


> Hey everyone. New to the forums and I’d like some advise.
> I recently got a Jot with G2 4490 DAC, Cavalli CTH and Liquid Carbon X.
> Headphones are HD600 and HE4xx (balanced cables, also have single ended adapters).
> With the Lyr 3 out, I’m debating returning the Jot in favor of the Lyr with both the TS and LISST tubes. My problem is, I haven’t found enough clear impressions to compare the Jot and the Lyr with the LISST or TS tube.
> ...


since you have the cth and liquid carbon, i'd keep the jot. the lyr with TS tubes is very smooth sounding, much like the cth and carbon. i think it's not as warm as either of them (more neutral), but the overall top level tonality is closer to them, vs the jot. the jot gives you a leaner, more aggressive amp for contrast. the jot's treble has much more extension and presence vs the cth and carbon. and it's bass is faster and more emphatic. it's a great contrast to the warmer cavalli amps. if you take the cavalli amps out of the equation though, i'd go lyr 3 with ts tube any day (which i did! sold the Jot after comparing). the lyr is smoother, more refined, and more even toned than the jot. despite its' smoother delivery, i never felt it lacked detail or dynamics. its just much more natural sounding to my ears. the jot is a bit more aggressive. i'd equate it to the hd600 (jot) and hd650 (lyr).

edit, no experience with the octal lisst in lyr 3. had lyr 2 with lisst and thought a dedicated solid state amp was better


----------



## XERO1

Zachik said:


> For me, Jot is better for people who like analytical sound, and Lyr3 for those who prefer a more "musical" or "fun" sound. Still very detailed, and not much colored, but easier on the ears / brain (FOR ME). YMMV...


+1


----------



## earnmyturns

Zachik said:


> I personally found the Jot to be too analytical to my tastes, and sold it.
> I am much happier with the Lyr3 with Schiit's TS tube.
> For me, Jot is better for people who like analytical sound, and Lyr3 for those who prefer a more "musical" or "fun" sound. Still very detailed, and not much colored, but easier on the ears / brain (FOR ME). YMMV...


I disagree that Jot is "too analytical." It's quite balanced, but it is a bit unforgiving and lacks is soundstage depth and instrument separation, which Lyr 3 + TS adds. In my setup, Lyr 3 really wins on 44.1/16 through a NOS DAC, which would be a bit grainy sometimes with Jot.


----------



## ProfFalkin

JRey said:


> Hey everyone. New to the forums and I’d like some advise.
> I recently got a Jot with G2 4490 DAC, Cavalli CTH and Liquid Carbon X.
> Headphones are HD600 and HE4xx (balanced cables, also have single ended adapters).
> With the Lyr 3 out, I’m debating returning the Jot in favor of the Lyr with both the TS and LISST tubes. My problem is, I haven’t found enough clear impressions to compare the Jot and the Lyr with the LISST or TS tube.
> ...



Lyr3+TS > Jot > Lyr3+LISST.

LISST doesn't really do many favors to the Lyr 3.  It's not bad, mind you, it's just... why do it?  The stock tubes or aftermarket NOS tubes sound so much better.


----------



## earnmyturns

erics75 said:


> the lyr with TS tubes is very smooth sounding, much like the cth and carbon. i think it's not as warm as either of them (more neutral), but the overall top level tonality is closer to them, vs the jot. the jot gives you a leaner, more aggressive amp for contrast. the jot's treble has much more extension and presence vs the cth and carbon. and it's bass is faster and more emphatic. it's a great contrast to the warmer cavalli amps.


I agree in general with your assessment, but I'd say Lyr 3+TS smooths some of the sharper edges of Jot without taking the lusher low-mids and rounded highs of the LC, which can sound very romantic but detract from impact in more dynamic material. Overall, I hear Lyr 3 as dominating Jot, while LC sounds different but falls short of Jot in realism and impact.


----------



## JRey

earnmyturns said:


> I agree in general with your assessment, but I'd say Lyr 3+TS smooths some of the sharper edges of Jot without taking the lusher low-mids and rounded highs of the LC, which can sound very romantic but detract from impact in more dynamic material. Overall, I hear Lyr 3 as dominating Jot, while LC sounds different but falls short of Jot in realism and impact.


It seems like my current setup of CTH, LCX, and Jot hits all the musical bases and I have no need for the Lyr 3 (Lush but transparent tube sound, refined solid state, and analytical/revealing solid state). 
I appreciate everyone’s response.


----------



## erics75

JRey said:


> It seems like my current setup of CTH, LCX, and Jot hits all the musical bases and I have no need for the Lyr 3 (Lush but transparent tube sound, refined solid state, and analytical/revealing solid state).
> I appreciate everyone’s response.


yes, you have a very rounded lineup there for sure. one counterargument i'd make for the fun of it, is the lyr 3 is imo the most complete amp of the bunch, with the option to tweak the sound via tubes. you could consolidate to the lyr as your only amp, and take the extra $ and put it into (edit) more headphones, which will give you the most noticeable sonic changes and variety. food for thought!


----------



## earnmyturns

JRey said:


> It seems like my current setup of CTH, LCX, and Jot hits all the musical bases and I have no need for the Lyr 3 (Lush but transparent tube sound, refined solid state, and analytical/revealing solid state).
> I appreciate everyone’s response.


My two current headamps are the Lyr 3 and a Neurochrome HP-1. The latter has all the qualities of the Jot but adds better soundstage and cleans some of the edges & graininess that the Jot shows with some sources/material. Lyr 3 might not fully attain HP-1's level of detail and precision, but it presents a more compelling 3D image. If I were more patient, I'd carefully switch between the two depending on material, but as it is I've been listening to Lyr 3 exclusively since I got it.


----------



## JRey

erics75 said:


> yes, you have a very rounded lineup there for sure. one counterargument i'd make for the fun of it, is the lyr 3 is imo the most complete amp of the bunch, with the option to tweak the sound via tubes. you could consolidate to the lyr as your only amp, and take the extra $ and put it into (edit) more headphones, which will give you the most noticeable sonic changes and variety. food for thought!


Now you’re changing my mind lol
I guess the question is...
If I get the Lyr 3, do I get the 4490, Multibit, or just the amp and pair it with my Topping D50 (whenever that crap ships... damn you Massdrop!)


----------



## earnmyturns

JRey said:


> Now you’re changing my mind lol
> I guess the question is...
> If I get the Lyr 3, do I get the 4490, Multibit, or just the amp and pair it with my Topping D50 (whenever that crap ships... damn you Massdrop!)


Not wanting to dig a hole in your wallet, but... Lyr 3 scales up to very good DACs (see my sig). At a minimum, you'd want an external multibit DAC, but you could go much higher and keep gaining audible benefits.


----------



## erics75

JRey said:


> Now you’re changing my mind lol
> I guess the question is...
> If I get the Lyr 3, do I get the 4490, Multibit, or just the amp and pair it with my Topping D50 (whenever that crap ships... damn you Massdrop!)


if budget is more of a priority, g2 4490 is awesome for the price. much better than the g1 card. if sound quality is more of a priority, modi or bifrost multibit. both sound better than the internal multibit, for some reason. did the topping drop already close? you locked in? i havent heard the d50, but i did buy/return the d30, and thought both the modi 2 uber and multibit sounded better. the d30 reminded me a lot of my old odac.


----------



## JRey

earnmyturns said:


> Not wanting to dig a hole in your wallet, but... Lyr 3 scales up to very good DACs (see my sig). At a minimum, you'd want an external multibit DAC, but you could go much higher and keep gaining audible benefits.


I’ll consider it. I have a D50 I’m locked into from Massdrop but they delayed the shipment -_-


erics75 said:


> if budget is more of a priority, g2 4490 is awesome for the price. much better than the g1 card. if sound quality is more of a priority, modi or bifrost multibit. both sound better than the internal multibit, for some reason. did the topping drop already close? you locked in? i havent heard the d50, but i did buy/return the d30, and thought both the modi 2 uber and multibit sounded better. the d30 reminded me a lot of my old odac.


Yea, I am locked in. I’m willing to give Multibit a try. I just keep reading conflicting things about it, how it’s hype and doesn’t matter or “it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread” (obvious exaggeration).


----------



## erics75

earnmyturns said:


> My two current headamps are the Lyr 3 and a Neurochrome HP-1. The latter has all the qualities of the Jot but adds better soundstage and cleans some of the edges & graininess that the Jot shows with some sources/material. Lyr 3 might not fully attain HP-1's level of detail and precision, but it presents a more compelling 3D image. If I were more patient, I'd carefully switch between the two depending on material, but as it is I've been listening to Lyr 3 exclusively since I got it.


you're making me jealous with the nuerochrome. got to hear one at a meet, with my ether c, and DAM did that thing impress. the clarity and effortlessness blew me away. it was paired with a chord 2qute dac, which also impressed. made my mimby/jot sound raw and unrefined in comparison. the jot's treble glare was so much more noticeable after listening to the nuerochrome.


----------



## earnmyturns

erics75 said:


> you're making me jealous with the nuerochrome. got to hear one at a meet, with my ether c, and DAM did that thing impress. the clarity and effortlessness blew me away. it was paired with a chord 2qute dac, which also impressed. made my mimby/jot sound raw and unrefined in comparison. the jot's treble glare was so much more noticeable after listening to the nuerochrome.


Got to Holo Spring KTE 3 > Neurochrome HP-1 from Bimby+Jot, that was quite a jump in clarity, lack of graininess, and overall refinement (also in price ) Finally, my headphone system was not put to shame by my speaker system (see my sig for details). What's blowing my mind now is that Lyr 3 is 1/2 the HP-1's price but it competes very well with it. Different, but not seriously worse in any dimension. I could be happy with either, but as I said I've not stopped listening to the Lyr 3 since I got it.


----------



## erics75

JRey said:


> I’ll consider it. I have a D50 I’m locked into from Massdrop but they delayed the shipment -_-
> 
> Yea, I am locked in. I’m willing to give Multibit a try. I just keep reading conflicting things about it, how it’s hype and doesn’t matter or “it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread” (obvious exaggeration).


if you try multibit, go in with reasonable expectations. it's not the 2nd coming of the audio gods. it's really good, but a quality delta sigma implementation can easily rival it. and like much in this hobby, our preferences play a gigantic role in our enjoyment. the schiit multibit dacs are really solid so you cant really go wrong testing the waters with one.


----------



## JRey (May 11, 2018)

I decided to take the leap and purchased the Lyr 3 with the TS tube, no dac. I actually got a notification that my Topping D50 just shipped from Massdrop (dual Sabre 9038q2m) which pushed me to just grab the Lyr.
Once it arrives, I’ll do AB testing vs the Jot to see what I prefer.
I really appreciate everyone’s feedback. This hobby, like all my other hobbies (professional drone racing, computer building), really makes me wanna try anything and everything lol.


----------



## Wes S

JRey said:


> I decided to take the leap and purchased the Lyr 3 with the TS tube, no dac. I actually got a notification that my Topping D50 just shipped from Massdrop (dual Sabre 9038q2m) which pushed me to just grab the Lyr.
> Once it arrives, I’ll do AB testing vs the Jot to see what I prefer.
> I really appreciate everyone’s feedback. This hobby, like all my other hobbies (professional drone racing, computer building), really makes me wanna try anything and everything lol.


I am pretty sure you will be happy, with your choice.


----------



## Zachik

JRey said:


> I decided to take the leap and purchased the Lyr 3 with the TS tube, no dac. I actually got a notification that my Topping D50 just shipped from Massdrop (dual Sabre 9038q2m) which pushed me to just grab the Lyr.
> *Once it arrives, I’ll do AB testing vs the Jot to see what I prefer.*
> I really appreciate everyone’s feedback. This hobby, like all my other hobbies (professional drone racing, computer building), really makes me wanna try anything and everything lol.


Post here your conclusions after you A/B the Lyr and Jot.
Obviously, make sure you burn-in the TS tube properly before drawing any conclusions...


----------



## JRey (May 11, 2018)

Of course. Seems like 20 hours burn in is enough on the TS tube? My last day to request a return for the Jot is 5/21 and my D50 might not arrive on time so I may find a “decent” DAC on amazon to use and just return after my AB comparison. Any recommendations? Topping D10/D30?
Also, I don’t have specialty measurement tools. My plan to do AB is to volume match the HD600 to both amps with a dB meter.
Last time I did that, I was able to hear the differences between the Jot, LCX, and CTH.
If anyone has a better idea, let me know and I’ll try to go that route.


----------



## FLTWS

JRey said:


> Of course. Seems like 20 hours burn in is enough on the TS tube? My last day to request a return for the Jot is 5/21 and my D50 might not arrive on time so I may find a “decent” DAC on amazon to use and just return after my AB comparison. Any recommendations? Topping D10/D30?
> Also, I don’t have specialty measurement tools. My plan to do AB is to volume match the HD600 to both amps with a dB meter.
> Last time I did that, I was able to hear the differences between the Jot, LCX, and CTH.
> If anyone has a better idea, let me know and I’ll try to go that route.



_Ask 12 different people and you'll get 12 different answers on how long is optimal for tube burn-in. I like 24 hours using an old CD player on replay with a disc I use specifically for burn in and warm up. I don't know how much it matters but it makes me feel better Listen and enjoy.

If I don't match volume levels carefully with a sound level meter and test signal I feel I'm just wasting my listening comparison time._


----------



## Freeflap

hi all,
new here. i have a monoprice monolith m1060 with the upgraded cable. The difference in detail and clarity is staggering. I usually don't believe in magic cables, but this is the best 30 bucks spent on an upgrade. I currently have a JDS element fed by USB from my pc. Love it so far, but am tempted by the lyr 3. Any thoughts / recommendations? I like having a combo unit and was going to order the Multibit Lyr3 with the TS tube as that seems to be most forum favs. 
thoughts? recommendations? I actually really like my jds element, but like all of this, you only love something until a better amp / can comes along. lol. I'm not sure why an external mimby would be better? as it's the exact same DAC just one is inside vs external case? 
i listen to 80's rock, jazz, classical, chamber music mostly. thx


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 12, 2018)

Freeflap said:


> hi all,
> new here. i have a monoprice monolith m1060 with the upgraded cable. The difference in detail and clarity is staggering. I usually don't believe in magic cables, but this is the best 30 bucks spent on an upgrade. I currently have a JDS element fed by USB from my pc. Love it so far, but am tempted by the lyr 3. Any thoughts / recommendations? I like having a combo unit and was going to order the Multibit Lyr3 with the TS tube as that seems to be most forum favs.
> thoughts? recommendations? I actually really like my jds element, but like all of this, you only love something until a better amp / can comes along. lol. I'm not sure why an external mimby would be better? as it's the exact same DAC just one is inside vs external case?
> i listen to 80's rock, jazz, classical, chamber music mostly. thx


I dislike your headphones, so I won't reply.  My answer might be to buy a better pair of headphones instead an amp.

Edit:  what I mean to say is, I don't think I would offer you good advice because when I heard your headphones I didn't like much about them. Therefore I don't know what they would pair well with.  I reread what I wrote, and it seemed a little harsh.  Not my intent.


----------



## chef8489 (May 12, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I dislike your headphones, so I won't reply.  My answer might be to buy a better pair of headphones instead an amp.
> 
> Edit:  what I mean to say is, I don't think I would offer you good advice because when I heard your headphones I didn't like much about them. Therefore I don't know what they would pair well with.  I reread what I wrote, and it seemed a little harsh.  Not my intent.


I agree the 700 would be better spent on a pair of Audeze LCD2c or Aeon flow open.


----------



## chef8489

Put in the 1957 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Dome. There is not a lot of tube glow.


----------



## Cashy

Would easy to drive headphones be worth using with Lyr 3 or would that be a waste of money?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Cashy said:


> Would easy to drive headphones be worth using with Lyr 3 or would that be a waste of money?


Which headphone?  It matters.


----------



## Freeflap (May 12, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I dislike your headphones, so I won't reply.  My answer might be to buy a better pair of headphones instead an amp.
> 
> Edit:  what I mean to say is, I don't think I would offer you good advice because when I heard your headphones I didn't like much about them. Therefore I don't know what they would pair well with.  I reread what I wrote, and it seemed a little harsh.  Not my intent.



No worries. Been a forum follower for a long time. Mostly into HT but recently into headphones. Have had various other gear: fiio, grado, sennheiser (low end), vmoda, soundmagic hp100, etc... The M1060 is my best pair so far. Probably pales compared to some others. Would definitely like to explore both better cans and amps.

Again, I would suggest some to take another listen to the m1060 with the upgraded cable. It's a complete day/night difference in sound quality / clarity.

Edit: there are two cables they sell. one is the original.
This is the upgrade. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29515

The midrange grain is gone. it is clear and detailed. The treble is noticeably more detailed and clean. Bass remains strong and deep. 

i will look at some can options as well. My original question was knowing how significant a change would be noticed coming from the jds element, and second, internal mbit card vs magni mbit?


----------



## Cashy

Sennheiser HD 700's or the 660's?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Cashy said:


> Sennheiser HD 700's or the 660's?


Sennheiser usually benefit well from good amplification.


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> No worries. Been a forum follower for a long time. Mostly into HT but recently into headphones. Have had various other gear: fiio, grado, sennheiser (low end), vmoda, soundmagic hp100, etc... The M1060 is my best pair so far. Probably pales compared to some others. Would definitely like to explore both better cans and amps.
> 
> Again, I would suggest some to take another listen to the m1060 with the upgraded cable. It's a complete day/night difference in sound quality / clarity.
> 
> ...



First, welcome!  

You're preaching to the choir on the difference a cable can make, so I get where you're coming from.  I had a pair of m1060's but returned them -- not my cup of tea.  Never had a chance to try them with the better cable though.

As far as the JDS/Lyr question, only someone that has listened to both can offer a valid comparison.  I haven 't ever heard the JDS so can't offer anything worthwhile.  You always have the option of purchasing the Lyr and returning it if it doesn't provide the level of improvement you're hoping for.  Yes, there's a restocking fee so there's some monetary risk, but the only way you'll know for sure if it's better for your ears is to listen to it with your ears (and 'phones).

The Magni is an amp only -- assume you're referring to the Modi?  I have the Lyr in amp-only configuration as I already had the Modi Multi.  If I hadn't, I'd have purchased the Lyr with the multibit card.  $50 cheaper (plus the cost of an additional cable), one less box, one less cord.  Sound quality wise there's no real difference, other than with the separate Modi you can leave it on all the time, and most DACs I've used sound a bit better when they stay powered up.  But it's a pretty minor difference, and far less than that cable change. 

I must agree with the Professor though that the same $700+ spent on some better 'phones will likely yield much greater improvements than anything you do in front of the m1060's.   Not trying to dump on your cans, just put on a pair of good $750 'phones and it'll become clear.  Me?  I'd never spend that much on 'phones -- I bought my Aeon's previously loved for much less.


----------



## dualsyste

Has anyone used this bad boy with the phono stage yet?

I'm thinking about picking up one so I can go from TT -> Lyr 3 - [preamp] -> KEF LS50W.


----------



## Freeflap

bcowen said:


> First, welcome!
> 
> You're preaching to the choir on the difference a cable can make, so I get where you're coming from.  I had a pair of m1060's but returned them -- not my cup of tea.  Never had a chance to try them with the better cable though.
> 
> ...



thx for the feedback. Just like whole room audio, $ is best spent on speakers vs electronics. I have no doubt this is true with headphones. Yes, i meant modi. sorry

Hmm. I will take a look at some used cans. I understand that the m1060 are considered entry level planar, but like most of the stuff monoprice sells, tends to be high value bang for the buck. Frankly i can't imagine something sounding much better, but i've said that before. lot's of times. 

is there much difference between the lcd2 and the lcd2c? i'm looking at the aeon as well. thx


----------



## Wes S

Cashy said:


> Would easy to drive headphones be worth using with Lyr 3 or would that be a waste of money?


I say yes.  The Lyr 3 is gonna make a bunch of different easy to drive cans sounds fabulous!  That's what the gain switch, is for.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I say yes.  The Lyr 3 is gonna make a bunch of different easy to drive cans sounds fabulous!  That's what the gain switch, is for.



Agree.  

That, and although both Senn models mentioned have pretty high sensitivity, I wouldn't describe either of them as 'easy to drive' with 150 ohm impedances.  An amp with the power output of the Lyr 3 would be the minimum I'd personally consider to drive them properly.


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> thx for the feedback. Just like whole room audio, $ is best spent on speakers vs electronics. I have no doubt this is true with headphones. Yes, i meant modi. sorry
> 
> Hmm. I will take a look at some used cans. I understand that the m1060 are considered entry level planar, but like most of the stuff monoprice sells, tends to be high value bang for the buck. Frankly i can't imagine something sounding much better, but i've said that before. lot's of times.
> 
> is there much difference between the lcd2 and the lcd2c? i'm looking at the aeon as well. thx



_"Frankly i can't imagine something sounding much better..."_

Grins.  

The m1060's were the 2nd pair of 'phones I purchased.  They were a _big_ step up from the 1st pair I bought -- a pair of VModas that were so awful it was almost insulting.  But my first thought with the 1060's was "is this all that headphone listening has to offer?"  Granted my ears have been spoiled with a 2-channel room system that has entered six figure territory at times, but I was expecting so much more from life in head world.  Guess it's all a matter of perspective.  

Not trying to steer you away from the Lyr 3 in any way -- I think it's a fantastic amp.  And I'd be shocked if you didn't love it from first listen.  Just trying to help with suggestions on where the dollars would be best spent based on where you are now.  

One suggestion:  consider the Cable Company's lending library.  Not free, but for 5% of the retail price, you can borrow different headphones to try.  Cost you less than $50 (plus shipping) to give the LCD2's a try.  

https://www.thecableco.com/the-cable-company-headphone-lending-library


----------



## Natarian

Freeflap said:


> No worries. Been a forum follower for a long time. Mostly into HT but recently into headphones. Have had various other gear: fiio, grado, sennheiser (low end), vmoda, soundmagic hp100, etc... The M1060 is my best pair so far. Probably pales compared to some others. Would definitely like to explore both better cans and amps.
> 
> Again, I would suggest some to take another listen to the m1060 with the upgraded cable. It's a complete day/night difference in sound quality / clarity.
> 
> ...



I say invest in a used pair of Hifiman HE-500 (first) or Aeons (second) and then worry about the Lyr. The Element (which I own) is great.


----------



## Freeflap

Natarian said:


> I say invest in a used pair of Hifiman HE-500 (first) or Aeons (second) and then worry about the Lyr. The Element (which I own) is great.


thx. i'm looking at some used cans. i know this is veering off the lyr3 topic, so will move my discussion to the appropriate forum folder. having said that, some more recs for used higher end cans? i've heard HE500 but hate the clamp and heaviness. i have a huge head and need something that's made for a pumpkin. 

used audeze lcd-3? saw a couple on the 'bay.


----------



## ilikepooters

Freeflap said:


> thx. i'm looking at some used cans. i know this is veering off the lyr3 topic, so will move my discussion to the appropriate forum folder. having said that, some more recs for used higher end cans? i've heard HE500 but hate the clamp and heaviness. i have a huge head and need something that's made for a pumpkin.
> 
> used audeze lcd-3? saw a couple on the 'bay.




I've bought some used HE-500 and can't fault them, best 'phones i've ever owned (I've had Fischer FA-011, Denon D7000, HifiMan HE5-LE and currently Unique Melody Miracle IEM's)


Can't do much about the weight but can bend the headband back on itself to loosen the clamp pressure, and the Lawton audio angled sheepskin pads are super comfy and massively improve imaging and signature.


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> thx. i'm looking at some used cans. i know this is veering off the lyr3 topic, so will move my discussion to the appropriate forum folder. having said that, some more recs for used higher end cans? i've heard HE500 but hate the clamp and heaviness. i have a huge head and need something that's made for a pumpkin.
> 
> used audeze lcd-3? saw a couple on the 'bay.



The Aeon's are quite comfy.  The dual wire top band can be easily bent to allow more space between the cups, and the pads themselves are really good.  I have an average sized head as far as I know, which is still rather cavernous inside for the size of my brain.


----------



## ProfFalkin

LCD2C incoming for Lyr 3 testing.  Yay, and stuff.


----------



## chef8489

ProfFalkin said:


> LCD2C incoming for Lyr 3 testing.  Yay, and stuff.


It pairs quite well together.


----------



## ProfFalkin

chef8489 said:


> It pairs quite well together.


So I've read.  

I had the LCD2 fazor, Lord only knows which revision.  I found that there were certain aspects of the headphone that were not conducive for long-term listening, some of which was actual frequency response.   I really hope the classics improve upon ergonomics and sound.

One of the strange things about the headphone, as I recall, was the bass.  It extended very low, but it just wasn't very punchy.  EQ did absolutely nothing, it's like the headphone was giving it all it had without eq and nothing I did could coax more out of it.

So I remain pessimistic.


----------



## chef8489 (May 13, 2018)

Hell if you are expecting crazy basshead headphones you will be dissapointed. They have a nice punch and go deep, but are not overpowered in the bass region.


----------



## ProfFalkin

chef8489 said:


> Hell if you are expecting crazy basshead headphones you will be dissapointed. They have a nice punch and go deep, but are not overpowered in the bass region.


No, I'm not expecting basshead levels of bass.   I don't even expect them to compete with the ZMF Eikon in subbass, although they probably will reach a tad lower with the flat FR.   I just don't want a lifeless bass region is all.  =)  

I'm not sure what it will be like, but I'm fix'n to find out.


----------



## chef8489

ProfFalkin said:


> No, I'm not expecting basshead levels of bass.   I don't even expect them to compete with the ZMF Eikon in subbass, although they probably will reach a tad lower with the flat FR.   I just don't want a lifeless bass region is all.  =)
> 
> I'm not sure what it will be like, but I'm fix'n to find out.


To me they are not lifeless at all. I hope you enjoy them. Let us know what you think when they arrive.


----------



## ProfFalkin

chef8489 said:


> To me they are not lifeless at all. I hope you enjoy them. Let us know what you think when they arrive.


Oh you know I will.   If they are a steaming pile of something my dog just made, I'll let you know.    

Given the impressions from ears I trust, this should be good.


----------



## Freeflap

bcowen said:


> _"Frankly i can't imagine something sounding much better..."_
> 
> Grins.
> 
> ...



thx for the suggestion. One more question: 
if you could buy a used pair of LCD3, vs a new pair of LCD2 which one would you do? the used lcd3 would be about 1000 so cost wise, they are the same. I understand the LCD3 are the higher end can, but reviews are mixed. innerfidelity removed them from the "wall of fame" due to newer cans like the lcd2c in terms of value. i am also considering the aeon flow. no hifiman. the clamp is too tight for my head. thx


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> thx for the suggestion. One more question:
> if you could buy a used pair of LCD3, vs a new pair of LCD2 which one would you do? the used lcd3 would be about 1000 so cost wise, they are the same. I understand the LCD3 are the higher end can, but reviews are mixed. innerfidelity removed them from the "wall of fame" due to newer cans like the lcd2c in terms of value. i am also considering the aeon flow. no hifiman. the clamp is too tight for my head. thx



I'm not the right person to answer that question, as I've never listened to any of the Audeze 'phones.  Hopefully someone else can offer some insight?

Frankly, I'm in such a state of musical enjoyment right now with the Aeon's, Lyr 3, and Foton rib plate 6h8c tube that I have no desire to change anything.  Such an engaging, involving presentation.  Yup, there's better 'phones, better amps, and people with better ears, but for the time being I just don't care.  

That said, I was stricken with the audiophile disease a long time ago and as we all know there is no known cure, only brief periods of remission.  So how long this lasts is anyone's guess....


----------



## skyline315

I can echo others...the Lyr 3/Aeon Flows are a great match with the right tube.  The stock TS is plenty good.

The LCD2C is my only audio curiosity right now...as stated above, it's supposed to be some what magical with the Lyr.  Looking forward to Prof's impressions.


----------



## Freeflap

bcowen said:


> I'm not the right person to answer that question, as I've never listened to any of the Audeze 'phones.  Hopefully someone else can offer some insight?
> 
> Frankly, I'm in such a state of musical enjoyment right now with the Aeon's, Lyr 3, and Foton rib plate 6h8c tube that I have no desire to change anything.  Such an engaging, involving presentation.  Yup, there's better 'phones, better amps, and people with better ears, but for the time being I just don't care.
> 
> That said, I was stricken with the audiophile disease a long time ago and as we all know there is no known cure, only brief periods of remission.  So how long this lasts is anyone's guess....


So true. A disease with no cure; only temporary remission! 
thx for your input. seems a lot of people like the aeon. are yours open/ closed? what else did you demo before picking them? how is the comfort?


----------



## iamjaymo (May 14, 2018)

Ordered a Lyr 3 this morning and got notification it shipped by afternoon - not bad turn around!

Looking forward to the Lyr with the Tung-Sol tube. Been a while since I had a tube amp, hybrid or otherwise.


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> So true. A disease with no cure; only temporary remission!
> thx for your input. seems a lot of people like the aeon. are yours open/ closed? what else did you demo before picking them? how is the comfort?



I have the closed (in my sig).  Needed the isolation with the spousal unit in the room (from both aspects). 

I'm pretty new at the headphone thing, so my experience is rather limited. First 'phones I liked were the Alpha Primes, so the Aeon's were a natural progression.


----------



## erics75

Freeflap said:


> thx for the suggestion. One more question:
> if you could buy a used pair of LCD3, vs a new pair of LCD2 which one would you do? the used lcd3 would be about 1000 so cost wise, they are the same. I understand the LCD3 are the higher end can, but reviews are mixed. innerfidelity removed them from the "wall of fame" due to newer cans like the lcd2c in terms of value. i am also considering the aeon flow. no hifiman. the clamp is too tight for my head. thx


if you're looking at the lcd3 or lcd2c, i'd suggest also looking for used zmf eikon and atticus. i recently heard the lcd2c, and briefly owned the lcd3. both audeze are good, but have slightly unnatural treble. it's grainy with some hard glare. i know everyone says the lcd2's are dark, but the treble still sounds off to me. totally my opinion though, you may not agree. when i heard the atticus it was a revelation in that it had a similar dark signature, but has a very organic and natural treble presentation with tons of detail. 

a word of warning on audeze, do you homework, they're prone to defects/failure. i bought a used lcd3 and the driver died about a week after i got it. audeze did hook me up and replaced it for free (shipping on me) under warranty. but it was a pain in the buttocks. my coworker's lcd2c just died on him, it's being sent in for warranty as well. if you cringe at the thought of stuff like this, avoid audeze and hifiman. dont even get me started on hifiman!!!!  

one final suggestion that just hit me, the beyerdynamic dt 1990. it's beyond underrated. it's relatively affordable, sounds amazing, is built well, and is just criminally ignored by people because of beyerdynamic's reputation for bright headphones.


----------



## Freeflap

erics75 said:


> if you're looking at the lcd3 or lcd2c, i'd suggest also looking for used zmf eikon and atticus. i recently heard the lcd2c, and briefly owned the lcd3. both audeze are good, but have slightly unnatural treble. it's grainy with some hard glare. i know everyone says the lcd2's are dark, but the treble still sounds off to me. totally my opinion though, you may not agree. when i heard the atticus it was a revelation in that it had a similar dark signature, but has a very organic and natural treble presentation with tons of detail.
> 
> a word of warning on audeze, do you homework, they're prone to defects/failure. i bought a used lcd3 and the driver died about a week after i got it. audeze did hook me up and replaced it for free (shipping on me) under warranty. but it was a pain in the buttocks. my coworker's lcd2c just died on him, it's being sent in for warranty as well. if you cringe at the thought of stuff like this, avoid audeze and hifiman. dont even get me started on hifiman!!!!
> 
> one final suggestion that just hit me, the beyerdynamic dt 1990. it's beyond underrated. it's relatively affordable, sounds amazing, is built well, and is just criminally ignored by people because of beyerdynamic's reputation for bright headphones.



thank you for the good advice. I also hate bad QC. but all of these are small boutique manufacturers. There are always going to be some defects along the way. I am leaning towards aeon flow or ether flow if i can find a decent used pair. 
i'll look a the beyerdynamic too. thx


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 15, 2018)

erics75 said:


> beyerdynamic's reputation for bright headphones.


I purchased the DT1770 and returned them hoping that the non-Pro version would be more tolerable - aka, the Amiron.   Then I returned those for the DT1990 hoping that would be better, and finally just returned those as well because each one was intolerably bright.  Everything about the comfort and accessories were great, especially the Amiron headband, but the treble was physically painful at times.   Read that again - physically painful.   It's not just a reputation.  The Beyer brightness is real.  

Amazon hates me, but I love their return policy.


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> thank you for the good advice. I also hate bad QC. but all of these are small boutique manufacturers. There are always going to be some defects along the way. I am leaning towards aeon flow or ether flow if i can find a decent used pair.
> i'll look a the beyerdynamic too. thx



Just FYI, I did quite a bit of forum searching and review reading before purchasing the Aeon's, and what I gathered was that the Aeon's give your 90 plus percent of the performance of the Ether's for half the money.  Haven't heard the Ether's (in any format) so just passing along what others have said, FWIW.


----------



## skyline315

bcowen said:


> Just FYI, I did quite a bit of forum searching and review reading before purchasing the Aeon's, and what I gathered was that the Aeon's give your 90 plus percent of the performance of the Ether's for half the money.  Haven't heard the Ether's (in any format) so just passing along what others have said, FWIW.


Perhaps 90% of the technical performance, but 200% gains in terms of musicality and enjoyment.  Ethers are turned closer to the HD800 type of sound.  Very detailed, but a bit sterile.  Just my preference, of course 

Back to the Lyr 3 now?


----------



## Zachik

erics75 said:


> if you're looking at the lcd3 or lcd2c, i'd suggest also looking for used zmf eikon and atticus.


+1 on the ZMF Atticus.  I own a pair (and LOVE it). Pairs very nicely with the Lyr3 and stock Tung-Sol tube!
Costs more than LCD2C, but I have seen used ones go for $900 or so... Also, try contacting @zach915m  - he's an amazing guy, and might have b-stock / refurb / customer returns for a lower price for you. Does not hurt to ask, and I cannot stretch enough the big step up (IMHO) from LCD2, if you like a warmer and bassier sound. Not to mention looking so much better...


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> +1 on the ZMF Atticus.  I own a pair (and LOVE it). Pairs very nicely with the Lyr3 and stock Tung-Sol tube!
> Costs more than LCD2C, but I have seen used ones go for $900 or so... Also, try contacting @zach915m  - he's an amazing guy, and might have b-stock / refurb / customer returns for a lower price for you. Does not hurt to ask, and I cannot stretch enough the big step up (IMHO) from LCD2, if you like a warmer and bassier sound. Not to mention looking so much better...


The Atticus is at the top of my list!


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> The Atticus is at the top of my list!


Atticus should be at the top of anyone's list, unless:
- You hate bass or warm sound (i.e. you prefer very neutral sound signature)
- You hate closed cans (although Atticus does not *feel* very close, sound wise)
- You have neck muscles of a 2 year-old (they are a little heavy, but not as heavy as others... I am talking to you, LCD-XC...)
- You cannot afford it...   (totally worth it if you can!!)


----------



## antoramp (May 15, 2018)

Sorry for the OT: What do you think guys:
I’m interested in tube amplifiers and in the next years I’ll probably convert my current setup in tube amps...Because of this I was interested in buying a tube tester: I was initially looking for an emission tester ( more or less €150 ), but then I read about mutual conductance tests ( also speaking with you ) but then the price will rise at over three or four times or even more... In your opinion could an emission tube tester be sufficient for my needings or these testers are not so useful in tube testing? Thank you


----------



## ProfFalkin

antoramp said:


> Sorry for the OT: What do you think guys:
> I’m interested in tube amplifiers and in the next years I’ll probably convert my current setup in tube amps...Because of this I was interested in buying a tube tester: I was initially looking for an emission tester ( more or less €150 ), but then I read about mutual conductance tests ( also speaking with you ) but then the price will rise at over three or four times or even more... In your opinion could an emission tube tester be sufficient for my needings or these testers are not so useful in tube testing? Thank you



I think you're putting the carriage before the horse.  You don't have a tube amp, but you're going to get a tester first?  This makes no sense, friend.   

Tubes are a freaking complex topic, often with terrible documentation or historical information (or both) to be found on any given tube maker / model - and a lot of that matters when buying / selling tubes.   Unless I were going into the business of reviewing or selling tubes and tube gear, I wouldn't even bother with a tester.

Take the money you have for the tester and put it toward a good headphone.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## bcowen

antoramp said:


> Sorry for the OT: What do you think guys:
> I’m interested in tube amplifiers and in the next years I’ll probably convert my current setup in tube amps...Because of this I was interested in buying a tube tester: I was initially looking for an emission tester ( more or less €150 ), but then I read about mutual conductance tests ( also speaking with you ) but then the price will rise at over three or four times or even more... In your opinion could an emission tube tester be sufficient for my needings or these testers are not so useful in tube testing? Thank you



Here I am agreeing with the Professor again (but trust me, I'm not a groupie...).  

An emissions-only tester is practically worthless for testing audio tubes.  Read this, which is not a bible by any means, but sums things up decently::

http://www.tungsol.com/html/faqs7.html

A mutual conductance tester is far better, but even most of those that can be had for less than $1k (Hickok's, B&K's, AVO's) have limitations compared to a laboratory tester.  Still worthwhile to check for shorts, leakage, gas, and can be used for matching to a degree.  I have a Hickok 752A that has been a good tester for making sure Ebay-sourced tubes don't have flaws that could cause problems in my equipment, and it's been helpful for rudimentary matching (between tubes, or between triodes in twin triode tubes like the one used in the Lyr 3).  But you can expect to pay at east $750 for one of the better Hickoks in decent condition, and substantially more for one that is refurbished and calibrated.  Buying one that hasn't had either is a fools endeavor, as 50+ year-old caps and resistors are a ticking time bomb for failure, and a 50+ year old unit that hasn't been calibrated recently is going to be worthless as far as accurate readings.

All that said, they're fun to have and fun to play with, but unless you're going to be testing a LOT of tubes (or have green stuff desperately trying to escape your wallet), it's a lot of money for something that doesn't do a thing to improve the sound of your system.  There are quality vendors out there that will test tubes for you for a reasonable fee, and typically have much better equipment to do a far more comprehensive test.


----------



## antoramp

ProfFalkin said:


> I think you're putting the carriage before the horse.  You don't have a tube amp, but you're going to get a tester first?  This makes no sense, friend.
> 
> Tubes are a freaking complex topic, often with terrible documentation or historical information (or both) to be found on any given tube maker / model - and a lot of that matters when buying / selling tubes.   Unless I were going into the business of reviewing or selling tubes and tube gear, I wouldn't even bother with a tester.
> 
> ...





bcowen said:


> Here I am agreeing with the Professor again (but trust me, I'm not a groupie...).
> 
> An emissions-only tester is practically worthless for testing audio tubes.  Read this, which is not a bible by any means, but sums things up decently::
> 
> ...


Ok ok! thank you! So I’ll start saving up for a new headphone/ new Dac


----------



## JRey (May 16, 2018)

I happened to find a used Lyr 3 and purchased it (cancelled the Schiit Audio order).
Tubes i’ll be using include the Stock NOS, a used but new production TS, and a Ken Rad vt-231 Mil Spec 
Gonna compare it to the Jot, CTH, and Liquid Carbon X. Source will be the topping D50. Headphones used will be the HD600.
It’ll probably take me a week to 2 weeks to really write everything up and add it to my blog.
Weee!!!!


----------



## ProfFalkin

JRey said:


> I happened to find a used Lyr 3 and purchased it (cancelled the Schiit Audio order).
> Tubes i’ll be using include the Stock NOS, a used but new production TS, and a Ken Rad vt-231 Mil Spec
> Gonna compare it to the Jot, CTH, and Liquid Carbon X. Source will be the topping D50. Headphones used will be the HD600.
> It’ll probably take me a week to 2 weeks to really write everything up and add it to my blog.
> Weee!!!!


Nice!   It's always fun exploring new stuff.   =)


----------



## FLTWS

ProfFalkin said:


> Nice!   It's always fun exploring new stuff.   =)



And thanks to Schiit's approach in design, sound, and price, it makes it manageable for many of us to "pay to play", again and again.


----------



## mrip541 (May 17, 2018)

Sorry if this has already been answered.... How is the preamp output noise floor? Has the Lyr 3 improved in that area from the Lyr 2?


----------



## ProfFalkin

I haven't tried using it as a pre myself, but I'd imagine the Saga would be quite a bit more beneficial in that role. And it's cheaper.


----------



## mrip541

ProfFalkin said:


> I haven't tried using it as a pre myself, but I'd imagine the Saga would be quite a bit more beneficial in that role. And it's cheaper.



Thanks, but I'm trying to get dac/headphone amp/preamp in a single box.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I wonder if the pre outs get cut when a headphone is plugged in.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 17, 2018)

The Lyr 3 does cut pre-out with headphones plugged in.

Per Lyr 3 FAQ page at Schiit.com



> *Does the volume control adjust the preamp outputs?*
> Yes.
> 
> *Can I turn off the headphone outs when I’m using the preamp outputs?*
> The preamp outputs are automatically turned off when you plug in your headphones. Unplug your headphones to use the pre outs.


----------



## Bacon Bits

Initial impressions of lyr 3. Seems to be just a vali 2 with everything turned to eleven. Gonna listen more, but right now I am definitely not regretting snatching the last b stock lyr 3. Everything just sounds like the clouds cleared on the music on a nice spring day.


----------



## JamesCanada

Bacon Bits said:


> Initial impressions of lyr 3. Seems to be just a vali 2 with everything turned to eleven. Gonna listen more, but right now I am definitely not regretting snatching the last b stock lyr 3. Everything just sounds like the clouds cleared on the music on a nice spring day.



Nice to hear it.
What phones are you running on?


----------



## Bacon Bits

I only managed to listen to my massdrop plus universal on them. Going to try my 650s later this weekend when I have time.


----------



## earnmyturns

My Ken-Rad VT-231 has had the suggested 50h of burn-in, and it is making a new classic jazz acquisition sound glorious: "Canonball and Coltrane" 24/192 FLAC converted from the original 2-track, 15ips tape by High Definition Tape Transfers. Wonderful dynamics, instrument separation, true jazz instrument tonality. Paul Chambers's bass is right where I expect it. For genuineness, you can even hear a slight tape print-through in the track opening quiet. There's a glitch in "You're a Weaver of Dreams" suggesting a bit of tape damage. It's giving me the shivers, like being there with these departed giants hearing this music for the first time.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks for the tip on High Definition Tape Transfers.  I just listened to the Cannonball Coltrane sample and it is absolutely wonderful.  I must treat myself to this one and the Dizzie Gillespie Verve 4-track when my Lyr 3 arrives this weekend.


----------



## FLTWS (May 18, 2018)

*earnmyturns* makes 2 really good points.

"For genuineness, you can even hear a slight tape print-through in the track opening quiet."
*Talk about true to the original source.*

"There's a glitch in "You're a Weaver of Dreams" suggesting a bit of tape damage."
*The more revealing the system the more readily one hears these things. Both a positive and a negative at the same time.

There have been a number of times with some remastered CD recordings where a glitch in the original source had me looking at every part of the chain as a possible culprit except for the original source. itself. I hang on to all my original issue CD's when I acquire a "remastered" one just for that purpose, as well as comparison, as not all remasters are an improvement over the original recording.*


----------



## earnmyturns (May 18, 2018)

FLTWS said:


> *earnmyturns* makes 2 really good points.
> 
> "For genuineness, you can even hear a slight tape print-through in the track opening quiet."
> *Talk about true to the original source.*


Many, many years ago, college times, I shared a house with a friend who owned one of those classic Revox reel-to-reel tape decks. I, OTOH, owned a classic Thorens TD-160 turntable, an integrated amp that I don't quite remember, and bass reflex speakers I had built from a Wharfedale kit (I think the Linton 2, but I'm no longer sure, they stayed behind when I left Portugal in 1977). I also had the coolest record collection. To avoid damage to records on party nights, we transferred to tape my party-est records (Grace Slick's "White Rabbit," Crosby, Stills & Nash, JCOA's "Escalator over the Hill, "ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition," King Crimson's "In the Court of Crimson King" and "Lark's Tongues in Aspic", and to balance some hyper-romantic Rachmaninoff and Scriabin piano work (yes, out parties were strange...). To allow for party-long playing without messing around with tapes, we used the thinnest BASF tape. That's when I learned about print-through.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I am really impressed with the Lyr 3 and the Raytheon VT-231. The tube really improved bass performance with my ZMF Blackwood (also have an Ori on the way, and an LCD-4 coming on Tuesday so I use it exclusively for beefy planars). Killer amp for the price, hits above its price range for sure. I also picked up a NOS/NIB matched pair of National Union 6SN7GT Black Glass, and NOS Sylvania JAN CHS 6SN7WGT so this will be an interesting comparison. I honestly don't plan to use the 6SN7WGT too much, since I have four of them and plan to use them in a Schiit Freya.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Rhamnetin said:


> I am really impressed with the Lyr 3 and the Raytheon VT-231. The tube really improved bass performance with my ZMF Blackwood (also have an Ori on the way, and an LCD-4 coming on Tuesday so I use it exclusively for beefy planars). Killer amp for the price, hits above its price range for sure. I also picked up a NOS/NIB matched pair of National Union 6SN7GT Black Glass, and NOS Sylvania JAN CHS 6SN7WGT so this will be an interesting comparison. I honestly don't plan to use the 6SN7WGT too much, since I have four of them and plan to use them in a Schiit Freya.


Would you mind snapping a photograph of that Raytheon?  I'm curious if that's the same plate structure as mine


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 23, 2018)

Received my Lyr 3 today.  Plugged in the TUNG-SOL tube and proceeded to give it a listen...

Wow!  Just wow!  The resolution and air around instruments is just wonderful.  It just seems that more space, texture, and emotion is given to instruments and voices.  Given the right recordings, the Lyr 3 makes the music palpable.  I love my Magni 3, but Lyr 3 is just on a completely different level -- of course Lyr 3 is 5x the price of Magni 3.

This is my 1st real tube amp, so I don't know if the difference is to be attributed primarily to the Tube Sound, but honestly, I don't care.  It is just wonderful and makes me want to re-listen to my favorite music to see what I've been missing!!


----------



## earnmyturns (May 19, 2018)

Really enjoying a new Harmonia Mundi digital issue (via Presto Music) of Alessio Bax playing the "Emperor" concerto. Lyr 3 with Ken-Rad VT-231 treats the piano-strings balance very nicely. *Update*: It gets especially delightful in the final rondo, with the layering between piano notes and strings, and different instrument dynamics so well rendered.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> Received my Lyr 3 today. Plugged in the TUNG-SOL tube and proceeded to give it a listen...
> 
> Wow! Just wow! The resolution and air around instruments is just wonderful.


It will get even better, the tube needs some burn-in. In my experience (as a tube newbie) with the stock Tung-Sol and then with the Ken-Rad VT-231, the mids start a bit rough. My test is how a good recording of solo piano sounds, especially in louder passages. The harmonics start a bit jumbled, but after burn-in they become more realistic, organic.


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> Really enjoying a new Harmonia Mundi digital issue (via Presto Music) of Alessio Bax playing the "Emperor" concerto. Lyr 3 with Ken-Rad VT-231 treats the piano-strings balance very nicely.



I like the Ken-Rad with staggered (offset) plates a lot too. Probably the best all-around tube I've tried in the Lyr 3 so far, which seems to be the consensus of most everyone that's posted on it. The '53 ribbed plate Foton is still my favorite for rock and metal, as you can crank the volume to ridiculous levels and listen for hours with no fatigue.  The Ken-Rad has better bass, just not quite as forgiving up top and a lot of rock (and especially metal) recordings benefit from some forgiveness in that area.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 19, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> It will get even better, the tube needs some burn-in. In my experience (as a tube newbie) with the stock Tung-Sol and then with the Ken-Rad VT-231, the mids start a bit rough. My test is how a good recording of solo piano sounds, especially in louder passages. The harmonics start a bit jumbled, but after burn-in they become more realistic, organic.



So how should one go about 'burning in' a tube?  Is it sufficient to just leave the Lyr 3 powered on, or do I need to plug in headphones/speakers and use music.  I'm heading out for the day and want to leave it burning-in while I am out and also while I sleep tonight.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Ripper2860 said:


> This is my 1st real tube amp, so I don't know if the difference is to be attributed primarily to the Tube Sound, but honestly, I don't care.  It is just wonderful and makes me want to re-listen to my favorite music to see what I've been missing!!



It ain't due to the tubes, it performs very well with LISST too (not as good as with an excellent NOS tube though). It's just a stellar amp.



ProfFalkin said:


> Would you mind snapping a photograph of that Raytheon?  I'm curious if that's the same plate structure as mine



Sure thing:



Spoiler


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> So how should one go about 'burning in' a tube?  Is it sufficient to just leave the Lyr 3 powered on, or do I need to plug in headphones/speakers and use music.  I'm heading out for the day and want to leave it burning while I am out and also while I sleep tonight.


Just use it normally, but understand the sound may change after 40 hours or so.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Rhamnetin said:


> It ain't due to the tubes, it performs very well with LISST too (not as good as with an excellent NOS tube though). It's just a stellar amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## bcowen

Rhamnetin said:


> It ain't due to the tubes, it performs very well with LISST too (not as good as with an excellent NOS tube though). It's just a stellar amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



T-plates. Somehow I already knew it wasn't the flat plate version.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> So how should one go about 'burning in' a tube?  Is it sufficient to just leave the Lyr 3 powered on, or do I need to plug in headphones/speakers and use music.  I'm heading out for the day and want to leave it burning-in while I am out and also while I sleep tonight.


As I said I'm a tube newbie, but I just left the amp on 24h/day the first few days. I only played music when I was actually listening, a couple of hours/day. But sound clearly changed throughout the first 50 hours or so. My guess is that the heated filaments needs to stabilize with other physical properties within the tube. Once those changes happen, tube properties will be relatively stable for the tube's lifetime. After the first 50h or so, I turn off the amp after my last listening session, and turn it back on ideally 30 min-1h before the first listening session the following day. (Fortunately I also have a very good solid-state 2-channel system that to listen to, so I can wait for the pre-listen warm-up).


----------



## Freeflap

Ok, so I went and upgraded my headphones from my beloved monoprice m1060v2 to a pair of used Mr. Speaker ether flow. 

I currently use a jds Element. Once the ether arrives how does the ether do with the lyr 3? Or should I consider jotunheim for a balanced amp option?


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> Ok, so I went and upgraded my headphones from my beloved monoprice m1060v2 to a pair of used Mr. Speaker ether flow.
> 
> I currently use a jds Element. Once the ether arrives how does the ether do with the lyr 3? Or should I consider jotunheim for a balanced amp option?



Can't tell you exactly how the Ethers will do, but the Aeons are a great match with the Lyr 3.  Logic would dictate that the Ethers will just be an extension of that.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Freeflap said:


> Ok, so I went and upgraded my headphones from my beloved monoprice m1060v2 to a pair of used Mr. Speaker ether flow.
> 
> I currently use a jds Element. Once the ether arrives how does the ether do with the lyr 3? Or should I consider jotunheim for a balanced amp option?


I think the Lyr 3 would be the better match.  The Ether can get a bit sharp up top, and a nice RCA grey glass can take some of the bite out of it and provide a very smooth sound.


----------



## earnmyturns

Freeflap said:


> I currently use a jds Element. Once the ether arrives how does the ether do with the lyr 3? Or should I consider jotunheim for a balanced amp option?


I've used my Ether C Flows (and less often, my Æon closed) with Jot (truly balanced), Neurochrome HP-1 (not internally balanced, but balanced cable output), and Lyr 3 (single-ended). Overall, Lyr 3 wins for my everyday headphone listening. Jot is amazingly fast but has a shallow soundstage and has a sharp-edge upper midrange that goes too far with some recordings. Lyr 3 is still reasonably fast, but is smooths those edges a bit, especially with the Ken-Rad VT-231, and shows a deeper soundstage. The HP-1 is I think the best of the 3 from a reference point of view, but the Lyr 3 is more engaging.


----------



## FLTWS

earnmyturns said:


> I've used my Ether C Flows (and less often, my Æon closed) with Jot (truly balanced), Neurochrome HP-1 (not internally balanced, but balanced cable output), and Lyr 3 (single-ended). Overall, Lyr 3 wins for my everyday headphone listening. Jot is amazingly fast but has a shallow soundstage and has a sharp-edge upper midrange that goes too far with some recordings. Lyr 3 is still reasonably fast, but is smooths those edges a bit, especially with the Ken-Rad VT-231, and shows a deeper soundstage. The HP-1 is I think the best of the 3 from a reference point of view, but the Lyr 3 is more engaging.



My exact experience with the Jot but I plan to keep it as a reference point and I find I can massage the sound a bit with Loki. If Schiit come up with a Loki Maxi at some point with say 2 more hinge points in the midrange, that would be a good thing.


----------



## mks100

I have noticed an audible buzzing from the Pre Amp Output to my Kanto Yumi Powered Speakers.  When I changed to my DragonFly Black the distortion went away.  Has anyone else experienced this running the Pre Amp Output to a powered Speaker or Amp/Speaker System?  There is no distortion throught the Headphone Output.  Thank you.


----------



## earnmyturns

mks100 said:


> I have noticed an audible buzzing from the Pre Amp Output to my Kanto Yumi Powered Speakers.  When I changed to my DragonFly Black the distortion went away.  Has anyone else experienced this running the Pre Amp Output to a powered Speaker or Amp/Speaker System?  There is no distortion throught the Headphone Output.  Thank you.


Ground loop between the Lyr 3 and your powered speakers?


----------



## mks100

earnmyturns said:


> Ground loop between the Lyr 3 and your powered speakers?


Maybe.  I am trying different Cables.  Seems if it was a Ground Loop issue the distrotion would also affect my Headphone Output and/or the Speakers when using the DragonFly.


----------



## mks100

mks100 said:


> Maybe.  I am trying different Cables.  Seems if it was a Ground Loop issue the distrotion would also affect my Headphone Output and/or the Speakers when using the DragonFly.


Cycled Power and replaced my AudioQuest Evergreen with my MIT Terminator 6's.  No distortion.  I'm a dumb ass.  Thank you.


----------



## bcowen

mks100 said:


> Maybe.  I am trying different Cables.  Seems if it was a Ground Loop issue the distrotion would also affect my Headphone Output and/or the Speakers when using the DragonFly.



The Dragonfly goes into the USB port with no external power. You're adding another ground path with the Lyr and its power cord.


----------



## iamjaymo (May 19, 2018)

My Lyr 3 with Tung Sol arrived Friday and finally got 'er hooked up this morning.  Ran it in most of the day while running errands; am just sitting down to listen tonight...holy S**T it sounds fantastic!  Lots of listening to do yet but very impressed so far.  Really like how smooth the upper region is, very tight and DEEP bass foundation and the separation of instruments is really, really good.  Might be on to something here...


----------



## Bacon Bits

Is this normal? Or is this a sign of a bad time?


----------



## Motocrossman24

Bacon Bits said:


> Is this normal? Or is this a sign of a bad time?



I’m assuming your talking about the chrome on the glass? It’s perfectly normal and is made when they heat the getter at the factory...all tubes have it, some are in different places on the tube and others completely hidden by the base...if the chrome is white then I would be concearned.


----------



## ilikepooters

iamjaymo said:


> My Lyr 3 with Tung Sol arrived Friday and finally got 'er hooked up this morning.  Ran it in most of the day while running errands; am just sitting down to listen tonight...holy S**T it sounds fantastic!  Lots of listening to do yet but very impressed so far.  Really like how smooth the upper region is, very tight and DEEP bass foundation and the separation of instruments is really, really good.  Might be on to something here...



That's only the first step on the ladder, I started off with the RCA red base 5692 and it was fantastic.

Tried the stock Tung Sol afterwards and the TS sounded thin by comparison.


----------



## FLTWS

Motocrossman24 said:


> I’m assuming your talking about the chrome on the glass? It’s perfectly normal and is made when they heat the getter at the factory...all tubes have it, some are in different places on the tube and others completely hidden by the base...if the chrome is white then I would be concearned.



Yep.


----------



## FLTWS

ilikepooters said:


> That's only the first step on the ladder, I started off with the RCA red base 5692 and it was fantastic.
> 
> Tried the stock Tung Sol afterwards and the TS sounded thin by comparison.



LOL! I spent my first serious listening session with an RCA 48' Grey Glass, (the first option in my roll-a-thon). After a fairly steady diet of the stock TS as I burned 
in my 6SN7 purchases my first thoughts were; this isn't a glass of milk, it's a milkshake.

But, sometimes I want a glass of milk, sometimes I want a milkshake.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> LOL! I spent my first serious listening session with an RCA 48' Grey Glass, (the first option in my roll-a-thon). After a fairly steady diet of the stock TS as I burned
> in my 6SN7 purchases my first thoughts were; this isn't a glass of milk, it's a milkshake.
> 
> But, sometimes I want a glass of milk, sometimes I want a milkshake.



I must say that's the first time I've seen milkshake used as a sonic descriptor. So are you saying it's kind of 'whitish' sounding? Or is it a chocolate milkshake?


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Has anyone used the Lyr 3 as a preamp in a 2-channel speaker system yet?

I’m interested to hear any impressions.


----------



## FLTWS

bcowen said:


> I must say that's the first time I've seen milkshake used as a sonic descriptor. So are you saying it's kind of 'whitish' sounding? Or is it a chocolate milkshake?



LOL. Some sweet milk chocolate.
The stock Tung-Sol is my point of reference and I think it sounds great.
So, compared to my stock Tung-Sol here's my notes after switching to that particular RCA yesterday afternoon:

*RCA 1948 6SN7GT, Grey Glass, Black Plate, Short Bottle*

Bass: Full, impactful, warm

Mids: Rich, warm, transparent

Highs: Soft, smooth, never harsh, maybe lacking a little sparkle when called for

Transients: Good, but not ultra-sharp

Air: Plenty, up and down the frequency range

Detail: The warmth and airiness may contribute to a very slight obscuring of very fine detail

Dynamics: Excellent, never gets congested, handles _ffff _with aplomb

Image: Stable

Sound Stage: Players at just the right distance from my ear, not recessed, not forward

Top to Bottom Balance: Weighted towards the bottom of the spectrum, sumptuous string and woodwind tone,

horns maybe not quite as brassy or bright as they should/could be.

Long Term Listen-ability: All day


Only 9 more tubes to go.


----------



## Zachik

FLTWS said:


> LOL. Some sweet milk chocolate.
> The stock Tung-Sol is my point of reference and I think it sounds great.
> So, compared to my stock Tung-Sol here's my notes after switching to that particular RCA yesterday afternoon:
> 
> ...


So when you write it is in comparison to the stock TS, and then write (for example):
"Bass: Full, impactful, warm"
Do you mean to say that the stock TS is less full, less impactful and less warm?!

I am asking because your description is very good but does not look like it is in comparison to the other tube.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2018)

*Stop it!! * I swore if I purchased a Lyr 3 I would not fall into the 'tube-roll' trap!  

(OK -- maybe just a Kenrad.  Dammit!!!  I must resist!!)

On a related matter:  I've left the Lyr 3 powered on with the Tung Sol for approx. 24 hours and the music is opening up nicely.  The sound stage is more open with instruments sounding less congested and bass is tightening up nicely.  The Lyr 3 is just an amazing bit of kit!  Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits have never sounded better!!


----------



## FLTWS (May 20, 2018)

Zachik said:


> So when you write it is in comparison to the stock TS, and then write (for example):
> "Bass: Full, impactful, warm"
> Do you mean to say that the stock TS is less full, less impactful and less warm?!
> 
> I am asking because your description is very good but does not look like it is in comparison to the other tube.



Yes.

Also;
All my comments are in comparison to the stock Tung-Sol (I guess the underline didn't help) as it's the only other tube I've listened to at this point.
But I'm not picking a winner or a preference based on the comparison or suggesting that I have "the answer".
I'm just noting differences I hear in comparison to the stock Tung-Sol.
Don't give too much weight to my subjective terms, they are not absolutes except to me. And its very difficult to put into words the subtleties often involved in listening comparisons, I (we) end up using an axe when what we need is a scalpel.
I try and stay away from good/bad, yes/no, day/night conclusions. For me it's just about the differences, if any, I hear.This extends to any of the audio toys I own, or evaluate. Any conclusions I might draw are for my purposes and true for me only and should not be considered a recommendation, just possibly food for thought to add to your own decision making process.
You have to "pay to play" and put in some time to a certain extant and live the experience for yourself. I've never, to my remembrance, ever asked the question "what should I buy?". I may take a flyer (sound unheard) based on all the commentary I've been able to wade through and I accept that it's a crap shoot and I may not be getting what I want. A return policy of some sort is real important to me in those cases.
I can't hear with your ears or you with mine.
I will revisit the stock Tung-Sol at the end and put it thru the same process. Part of my enjoyment comes from not knowing what the results of the comparisons will be. And as usual for me there will probably more than 1 winner and for different reasons, and I'm okay with that..


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> LOL. Some sweet milk chocolate.
> The stock Tung-Sol is my point of reference and I think it sounds great.
> So, compared to my stock Tung-Sol here's my notes after switching to that particular RCA yesterday afternoon:
> 
> ...



Nice description. Thanks for the detail! 

I don't have any 40's/50's RCA's (gray _or _clear glass) to play with. The ones in the stash are all mid-60's or later. I've tried a couple of them and didn't begin foaming at the mouth over their sound. Ran across this one on Ebay this morning. Was listed at $68, I offered $50 and the seller accepted. Seller's test results showed both triodes very close and above the average NOS values (on their tester), so we'll see how it does in mine. Unusual color for the base -- not black, not brown, not the redder-red of an RCA 5692.  Don't know anything about this tube other than the 1951 manufacture date. Anybody have any more info?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> *Stop it!! * I swore if I purchased a Lyr 3 I would not fall into the 'tube-roll' trap!
> 
> (OK -- maybe just a Kenrad.  Dammit!!!  I must resist!!)
> 
> On a related matter:  I've left the Lyr 3 powered on with the Tung Sol for approx. 24 hours and the music is opening up nicely.  The sound stage is more open with instruments sounding less congested and bass is tightening up nicely.  The Lyr 3 is just an amazing bit of kit!  Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits have never sounded better!!



Resistance is futile. Don't feel bad.


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> Nice description. Thanks for the detail!
> 
> I don't have any 40's/50's RCA's (gray _or _clear glass) to play with. The ones in the stash are all mid-60's or later. I've tried a couple of them and didn't begin foaming at the mouth over their sound. Ran across this one on Ebay this morning. Was listed at $68, I offered $50 and the seller accepted. Seller's test results showed both triodes very close and above the average NOS values (on their tester), so we'll see how it does in mine. Unusual color for the base -- not black, not brown, not the redder-red of an RCA 5692.  Don't know anything about this tube other than the 1951 manufacture date. Anybody have any more info?


Is it labeled gtw or vt231?


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> Is it labeled gtw or vt231?



The seller's text description is only 6SN7-GT.  The octagon silkscreen on the glass is not visible in any of the photos provided, unfortunately.


----------



## earnmyturns

I was reading an Alex Ross (_New Yorker_) review of new _Goldberg Variations_ performances on harpsichord, and the reviewer mentioned one of his favorite versions, Jory Vinikour's on Delos. Looking at my Bach collection, I felt that I owned at some point an harpsichord _Goldberg_, but I can't find it. So, thanks to Presto Classical's digital downloads, listening to the Vinikour version through my ever more engaging Lyr 3 + Ken-Rad VT-231. Vinikour's tempos are way slower than the (in)famous first Glenn Gould (1h25m vs 38m), closer to András Schiff's 2001 piano version (1h10m). I find the slower tempos much more compelling, bringing out the stately dance rhythms that were turned into a mad (if very entertaining) whirl by early Gould. Anyway, this another example of what the Lyr 3 can bring out, this little amp is making me listen more more often than I expected.


----------



## bcowen

I gotta figure out how to block access to Ebay from my laptop.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2018)

Better you than I ...


BTW -- it's better if you block via your router. That way wireless, wired, computer, phone -- doesn't matter; you're not getting there.  Works for me ...

until I drive to the nearest Starbucks and sit in their parking lot using their WiFi to get my eBay fix!!


----------



## Rhamnetin

bcowen said:


> I gotta figure out how to block access to Ebay from my laptop.



Wow, what a deal.


----------



## ProfFalkin

It irks me he put bad boy in the title of that tube.


----------



## Ripper2860

Why?  I thought it was just the lister talking smack.  Is that an actual Sylvania thing?


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 21, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Why?  I thought it was just the lister talking smack.  Is that an actual Sylvania thing?


Yeah, it's an actual Sylvania thing.   There are very specific criteria which make a Bad Boy what it is.  It's such a popular tube that a ton of Ebay sellers will put Bad Boy in the title on any 6SN7 just to get suckers to buy the tube.    It's basically false advertising.

Furthermore, that tube is an RCA.   Only Sylvania made the "Bad Boys". 

So... It's like saying "GERMAN AUTOMOBILE, MILITARY "LAMBORGHINI" MFG 1944 WITH TINTED WINDOWS" when trying to sell this car:



(That is a 1944 VW Schwimmwagen, on display at the VW museum.   Clearly, not a Lamborghini.)


It's just irksome.


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 21, 2018)

Also, don't get me wrong - that RCA is probably a very good and smooth sounding tube.  Nothing wrong with it.   I just hate false advertising.

Edit:  I just checked every Sylvania tube on eBay that was a 6SN7 and labeled "Bad Boy".   None of them were real bad boys.


----------



## Dogmatrix

ProfFalkin said:


> Also, don't get me wrong - that RCA is probably a very good and smooth sounding tube.  Nothing wrong with it.   I just hate false advertising.
> 
> Edit:  I just checked every Sylvania tube on eBay that was a 6SN7 and labeled "Bad Boy".   None of them were real bad boys.



I don't think "Bad Boy" is a brand like Lamborghini or even a registered trade mark so sellers are free to label anything "Bad Boy"  buyer beware .


----------



## FLTWS

ProfFalkin said:


> Also, don't get me wrong - that RCA is probably a very good and smooth sounding tube.  Nothing wrong with it.   I just hate false advertising.
> 
> Edit:  I just checked every Sylvania tube on eBay that was a 6SN7 and labeled "Bad Boy".   None of them were real bad boys.



I've never used eBay, for any type of purchase.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> Yeah, it's an actual Sylvania thing.   There are very specific criteria which make a Bad Boy what it is.  It's such a popular tube that a ton of Ebay sellers will put Bad Boy in the title on any 6SN7 just to get suckers to buy the tube.    It's basically false advertising.
> 
> Furthermore, that tube is an RCA.   Only Sylvania made the "Bad Boys".
> 
> ...



I agree.  Irks me too. Seems these days that most every Ebay seller is putting Bad Boy in the title of ANY US-made 6SN7. I've gotten to the point I just gloss over it, and I'll probably end up missing a real Bad Boy in the rare case one ever pops up. I saw this one at $9.99 with 6 hours left and put in a $25 bid. Didn't expect that to fly.  As long as it tests out like the seller advertised, it's still a steal.

I'm going to list my stash of 20+ awful sounding late '90's Sovtek 6SN7's with 'Bad Boys' in the title. I figure Old_Guy_Radiola / BangyBangTubes has cornered the false advertising and relabeled crap-for-premium-prices market for long enough. Ebay doesn't seem to care.


----------



## Ripper2860

So for us toob noobs -- what makes a 'bad boy' tube different?  How can one separate the fake ones from a true 'bad boy'?


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> So for us toob noobs -- what makes a 'bad boy' tube different?  How can one separate the fake ones from a true 'bad boy'?


2 threads with all the info, for tube identification and impressions of 6sn7 tubes.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

These 2 threads are so valuable and so far I have found them to be very accurate.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Dogmatrix said:


> I don't think "Bad Boy" is a brand like Lamborghini or even a registered trade mark so sellers are free to label anything "Bad Boy"  buyer beware .


Well, that is a good point.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2018)

Dammit!!!    I didn't even last a week since getting the Lyr 3!

A NOS 1940's Ken-Rad 6SN7GT tube is on its way to me as my 1st real foray into tube rolling.  (I'm not counting the Russian tube I got along with the Tung-Sol.)  Next on the list is either a GE 6SN7GTA or RCA Early Smoked Glass GT.

(This is gonna be worse than my previous camera lens addiction.)  

BTW - I continue to be impressed with the Lyr 3.  It just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> A NOS 1940's Ken-Rad 6SN7GT tube


Flat or T plates?

One of them is good, the other...

I hope you got the good one.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2018)

Oh crap!  There's more than one?? ...

The one I'm getting has narrow, flat, black plates that are somewhat at an angle from each other.  Not T plate.  Should I cancel the order?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Dammit!!!    I didn't even last a week since getting the Lyr 3!
> 
> A NOS 1940's Ken-Rad 6SN7GT tube is on its way to me as my 1st real foray into tube rolling.  (I'm not counting the Russian tube I got along with the Tung-Sol.)  Next on the list is either a GE 6SN7GTA or RCA Early Smoked Glass GT.
> 
> ...



Go to the RCA next. Be interested in your thoughts. Personally, I wouldn't even add to the wear and tear on the Lyr's tube socket plugging the GE into it.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> Oh crap!  There's more than one?? ...
> 
> The one I'm getting has narrow, flat, black plates that are somewhat at an angle from each other.  Not T plate.  Should I cancel the order?


I'm such a jerk.   I feel bad.  I was messing with you.  Don't kill me.

The flat plates do sound slightly different than the t plates, but from what I've gathered they're both very good sounding tubes.

Mine are flat plates.  Very resolving, lots of impact, and a nice sweet tone.

You're fine.

Crisis averted.


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> Go to the RCA next. Be interested in your thoughts. Personally, I wouldn't even add to the wear and tear on the Lyr's tube socket plugging the GE into it.


GE = not great.  I bought a whole bunch of the damned things when I was tube rolling on the Elise. 

I wouldn't exactly describe the GE tube sound as akin to someone neutering a cat with no anesthesia while their 6 year old practiced on trumpet for the first time in a dank mountain cave... but I'd believe it if somebody said it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2018)

Thankfully, the seller seems reputable and would have taken it back (SND Tube Sales: http://vacuumtubes.com)

And yes, that was downright mean!!  I like your style!!  

The GE is now officially off the list and Hytron 5692 Brown Bottom has taken its place (although in a different price strata).  -- Unless you're pranking me again, that is.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> Thankfully, the seller seems reputable and would have taken it back (SND Tube Sales: http://vacuumtubes.com)
> 
> And yes, that was downright mean!!  I like your style!!
> 
> The GE is now officially off the list and Hytron Brown Bottom has taken its place (although in a different price strata).  -- Unless you're pranking me again.


No, I'm not pranking you.   Hehe.  I do feel guilty about that.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2018)

It wouldn't have been so bad if you hadn't posted and then gone radio silent while I agonizingly and frantically Googled 'KEN-RAD T-plates' while awaiting a reply to my post.


----------



## Rhamnetin

ProfFalkin said:


> I'm such a jerk.   I feel bad.  I was messing with you.  Don't kill me.
> 
> The flat plates do sound slightly different than the t plates, but from what I've gathered they're both very good sounding tubes.
> 
> ...



LOL you had me questioning some Ken-Rad I had just ordered too. Though another part of my brain was saying, "How can any 40s Ken-Rad 6SN7GT be bad?" I got it for cheap though, black glass with US Navy labels and staggered plate.


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 22, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> It wouldn't have been so bad if you hadn't posted and then gone radio silent while I agonizingly and frantically Googled 'KEN-RAD T-plates' while awaiting a reply to my post.


I was driving home from work.

Also, I don't think there is a smoked glass T plate Ken-Rad VT231...    Just flat plate. 

I could be wrong.


----------



## earnmyturns

ProfFalkin said:


> I was driving home from work.
> 
> Also, I don't think there is a smoked glass T plate Ken-Rad VT231...    Just flat plate.
> 
> I could be wrong.


What I got from Brent Jessee and lives up to billing: Ken-Rad VT-231, staggered plates, smoked glass. Listening to Charles Lloyd flute solo in "Tagore on the Delta" ("Passin' Thru" album), the physicality of Lloyd's flute (he plays flute as well as sax) is palpable; now onto the title track, starting with a fantastic duet between Reuben Rogers (bass) and Eric Harland (drums). I've heard these guys live playing this same music from front-row seats, and except for the volume (trying to protect my remaining hearing) I don't find much missing dynamically, tonally, or in transients. Sound stage is another matter, but I doubt there's a way to get SFJAZZ front row staging on planar headphones.


----------



## silverbot01

All this 6SN7 rolling is giving my DarkVoice vibes. I hope I get a chance to try the Lyr 3 myself though I won't be buying it just because I'm pretty set with what I have.

The only suggestion for tubes I can make is Sylvania. They are a bit pricey but you only need one so no matching is required. Specifically brown base Sylvanias labeled 6SN7WGTA (or GTB).


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> GE = not great.  I bought a whole bunch of the damned things when I was tube rolling on the Elise.
> 
> I wouldn't exactly describe the GE tube sound as akin to someone neutering a cat with no anesthesia while their 6 year old practiced on trumpet for the first time in a dank mountain cave... but I'd believe it if somebody said it.



ROFL!  But you're being kind.


----------



## FLTWS

Somehow I missed that brand (GE) when purchasing my collection.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Oh crap!  There's more than one?? ...
> 
> The one I'm getting has narrow, flat, black plates that are somewhat at an angle from each other.  Not T plate.  Should I cancel the order?



.  I have both a staggered plate version and a non-staggered flat plate version (which is 1960's production AFAIK). The non-staggered sounds very good, but the staggered is much better. Never had a T-plate to listen to.


Ripper2860 said:


> Oh crap!  There's more than one?? ...
> 
> The one I'm getting has narrow, flat, black plates that are somewhat at an angle from each other.  Not T plate.  Should I cancel the order?



Now you're getting me confused.   I have 2 versions, both with clear glass and flat plates that are parallel to each other.  The plates in one are offset in location respective to each other, and directly mirroring each other in the other (but again are parallel to each other in both cases). Your plates are angled in relation to each other?  And now there's a T-plate and smoked glass to throw into the mix?  Yikes.  I'm going back to my Fotons.  

I will say that both of mine sound really good (as in top-5 good), giving the nod to the offset plate version sounding a bit better.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 23, 2018)

The way I described is the way the seller described them in his listing.  I suspect what he meant is that the plates are slightly offset, but parallel.  I'll post up pics once I receive the tube.  

I had the choice of clear or black, but chose clear.


----------



## Valens7

Has anyone done a comparison of the Lyr 3 with the Torpedo III? If not, I may have to do one myself...


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 23, 2018)

The Torpedo III is over 2x the cost of a Lyr 3, but it would be cool to see how it stacks up against a costlier amp from a value proposition and performance standpoint.


----------



## Wes S

FLTWS said:


> Somehow I missed that brand (GE) when purchasing my collection.





Valens7 said:


> Has anyone done a comparison of the Lyr 3 with the Torpedo III? If not, I may have to do one myself...


Seems like quite a difference in price, between the two, but could be interesting. . .


Ripper2860 said:


> The Torpedo III is over 2x the coast of a Lyr 3, but it would be cool to see how it stacks up against a costlier amp from a value proposition and performance standpoint.


I was thinking the same thing. . .


----------



## Valens7 (May 23, 2018)

@Ripper2860 My thoughts exactly. The Torpedo III is no longer available for retail sale, so it’d be nice to know if the Lyr 3 is capable of offering competitive performance at a more affordable price point. I don’t expect the amps to offer directly comparable performance with the same headphones or even sound especially similar. In fact, I’d expect the Lyr 3 to be notably more capable with less sensitive headphones or those which respond favorably to a healthy supply of current. The TIII is clearly optimized for relatively sensitive dynamic headphones, particularly high impedance ones.


----------



## bcowen

Valens7 said:


> Has anyone done a comparison of the Lyr 3 with the Torpedo III? If not, I may have to do one myself...



Does a Foton Torpedo count? 

Oh nevermind....


----------



## GoodRevrnd

What's the difference between running a Bimby and getting the Lyr3 with the Multibit addon?  USB filter?

Thinking of picking up an AFO and might want to switch out my Jot for Lyr, but maybe I should just AIO the Lyr and dump my whole stack.


----------



## Valens7 (May 23, 2018)

@GoodRevrnd In every analysis of the multibit DAC module that I have read, its performance ranks on par or below that of the Modi Multibit. Although some do prefer the Momby to the Bifrost Multibit on the basis of its tonal character, I think it’d be a stretch to say that the Bimby is “inferior” to the Momby.

In my own experience, I substantially prefer the Bimby to the Momby. I think it’s safe to say that, although I’ve not heard it, that same opinion would hold regarding the multibit add-in card.

If I were in your position, I’d keep the Bimby to use with the Lyr 3. If for some reason you’d like to have an AIO on hand, then opt for the 4490 G2 module. That’s reputed to perform quite well for its price and would offer a different, arguably more neutral flavor to play around with for comparative purposes.

Hope that’s helpful. Glad to clarify as needed.


----------



## betula

I read a few times that the separate multibit DAC sounds better than the integrated one in the Lyr3. Any reason that might be?


----------



## Valens7

@betula If you’re referring to the Modi Multibit, then I suspect the standalone version has the benefit of fewer design constraints as opposed to what was required to confine the multibit architecture to the diminutive add-in module.

Another factor to consider that has been mentioned previously is that the multibit card is limited to the G2 USB input, a limitation it shares with the Momby. This is not an inconsequential drawback as compared to the more expensive models, although the addition of an Eitr can ameliorate the issue in the Momby’s case at added expense.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Okay thanks.  I'm not sure why I asked that question, I look back to compare the two now and there are different specs.  I swear when I was looking at this last night it was the same.  I probably had the wrong window open and was looking at the Jot instead of Bimby.


----------



## betula

Valens7 said:


> @betula If you’re referring to the Modi Multibit, then I suspect the standalone version has the benefit of fewer design constraints as opposed to what was required to confine the multibit architecture to the diminutive add-in module.
> 
> Another factor to consider that has been mentioned previously is that the multibit card is limited to the G2 USB input, a limitation it shares with the Momby. This is not an inconsequential drawback as compared to the more expensive models, although the addition of an Eitr can ameliorate the issue in the Momby’s case at added expense.


Thanks for your reply sir.

The Eitr always kept me thinking how good it actually is. Is adding the Eitr to the Lyr3 mean much improvement? 
Also, is for example an Eitr + Modi Multibit + Magni 3 combo inferior to the Lyr3 or it is just a different taste of sound?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 23, 2018)

If I could jump in...

Having moved to a Lyr 3 from a Eitr+Modi Multibit+Magni 3 stack, I can definitely state that the replacing the Magni 3 with the Lyr 3 was a SIGNIFICANT improvement.  While the Magni 3 is a nice bit of kit and punches above its price, it just cannot hold up to the more costly and engineering laden Lyr3.  Whether the sound is better, is up to the listener, but I can tell you it was astoundingly better for me -- wider sound stage, deeper controlled bass, smoother top-end, much more detail, more air around the instruments, and better location of instruments and voice creating a more 3D-like presentation.  It brings out the best of Modi Multibit and Eitr as it is just loads more revealing.  

I'm not kidding when I say I and having a blast discovering new nuances in music that I thought I knew.  My suggestion -- try one out w/ Tung-Sol tube.  Let the tube break-in for 24 hours and then enjoy!!

I personally would not go with the add-on Multibit card if you have a Modi Mulitbit.  The ability to keep using the Eitr and the fact that the Modi Multibit is in a separate shielded enclosure with separate powersupply, has to improve things and the Lyr 3 is just revealing enough to take make that known.


----------



## betula

Ripper2860 said:


> If I could jump in...
> 
> Having moved to a Lyr 3 from a Eitr+Modi Multibit+Magni 3 stack, I can definitely state that the replacing the Magni 3 with the Lyr 3 was a SIGNIFICANT improvement.  While the Magni 3 is a nice bit of kit and punches above its price, it just cannot hold up to the more costly and engineering laden Lyr3.  Whether the sound is better, is up to the listener, but I can tell you it was astoundingly better for me -- wider sound stage, deeper controlled bass, more detail, more air around the instruments, and a more 3D-like presentation.  It brings out the best of Modi Multibit and Eitr as it is just loads more revealing.  I'm not kidding when I say I and having a blast discovering new nuances in music that I thought I knew.
> 
> ...


Let's say I have got the Lyr3 with a separate Modi Multibit instead of the card. Is the Eitr still very much recommended?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 23, 2018)

I say YES.  Probably more-so with the Lyr 3 due to its more revealing nature.  Eitr is not a GOTTA HAVE, it's a NICE TO HAVE (unless you have USB transmission issues like pops or clicks).  In my opinion, with the Lyr 3's resolution, it would reveal flaws more easily than Magni might, making Eitr even more benficial -- but again it's not a gotta have.

Virtually everyone that has an Eitr states it has been a worthwhile investment, delivering a noticeable improvement when used with a revealing system.  Typical improvements are in less 'glare' and  improved clarity along with a deeper/darker silence underpinning quiet passages.  I refer to it as USB Gen 5 on steroids!!

(Of course this is all my opinion.)

Note:  I've never seen a Schiit Eitr for sale on eBay or in Schiit B stock listing.  Folks just don't return or sell them.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Spent the last week with the LCD2C and Lyr 3.   

In short - there is a LOT to like about this pairing, and a few failings which are deal breakers for me.   Mostly comfort / build issues, but a few sonic quirks too.   Overall, I'd say the Mimby + Lyr 3 + LCD2C = one of the better $1500 total cost packages you could get into.   You could certainly do far worse.


----------



## Ripper2860

ProfFalkin said:


> In short - there is a LOT to like about this pairing, and a few failings which are deal breakers for me. Mostly comfort / build issues



Not quite sure how 'comfort' fits in with the amp.  I'm pretty sure the Lyr 3 was not designed to be sat upon.  

Or are you talking about the Audeze HP?  Please do provide more specifics.


----------



## betula

ProfFalkin said:


> Spent the last week with the LCD2C and Lyr 3.
> 
> In short - there is a LOT to like about this pairing, and a few failings which are deal breakers for me.   Mostly comfort / build issues, but a few sonic quirks too.   Overall, I'd say the Mimby + Lyr 3 + LCD2C = one of the better $1500 total cost packages you could get into.   You could certainly do far worse.


Hope you will elaborate on this a little more.


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 24, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Not quite sure how 'comfort' fits in with the amp.  I'm pretty sure the Lyr 3 was not designed to be sat upon.
> 
> Or are you talking about the Audeze HP?  Please do provide more specifics.



No, unfortunately.  When using the Lyr 3 in suppository mode on high gain, the comfort is unbearable.  Also, the stock Audeze cable may not be long enough (for some) to go from your ass to your head.  Furthermore, both were a nightmare to clean.

<Evil grin>



betula said:


> Hope you will elaborate on this a little more.



As this is the Lyr 3 thread, I'll probably put more in the LCD2C thread.  I'll put a link in here if I do.

Thanks


----------



## JRey

I received my Lyr 3 last week and have been giving it a very good listen with my HD600.
Initial impressions is that, with the stock Russian tube, it’s already better than the Jot. Soundstage is wider, clearer. Bass seems a little slower and less impactful vs the Jot.
I’ll do a true AB comparison when my active audio splitter arrives this weekend.
I also have the KenRad VT 231 and OH MY GOD it makes the music so euphorical!


----------



## Rhamnetin

JRey said:


> I received my Lyr 3 last week and have been giving it a very good listen with my HD600.
> Initial impressions is that, with the stock Russian tube, it’s already better than the Jot. Soundstage is wider, clearer. Bass seems a little slower and less impactful vs the Jot.
> I’ll do a true AB comparison when my active audio splitter arrives this weekend.
> I also have the KenRad VT 231 and OH MY GOD it makes the music so euphorical!



Personally I find the HD 600 boring with the Lyr 3 and any tube. I think it needs a really warm "tubey" amp.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Rhamnetin said:


> Personally I find the HD 600 boring with the Lyr 3 and any tube. I think it needs a really warm "tubey" amp.



What HP are you using that you like better with Lyr 3?


----------



## JRey

Rhamnetin said:


> Personally I find the HD 600 boring with the Lyr 3 and any tube. I think it needs a really warm "tubey" amp.


I can see how it’s boring with the HD600, but I enjoy relatively flat sound. 
With the stock Russian, it’s flat but clear. I’ve been using the KenRad and it took the HD600 to a new level. It’s still relatively flat sounding, but euphorical at the same time. I don’t know how else to describe it lol. 
In comparison to the CTH, I think the CTH sounds more inviting vs Lyr 3 w/ Russian tube.


----------



## FLTWS

JRey said:


> I received my Lyr 3 last week and have been giving it a very good listen with my HD600.
> Initial impressions is that, with the stock Russian tube, it’s already better than the Jot. Soundstage is wider, clearer. Bass seems a little slower and less impactful vs the Jot.
> I’ll do a true AB comparison when my active audio splitter arrives this weekend.
> I also have the KenRad VT 231 and OH MY GOD it makes the music so euphorical!



I have both as well sitting side by side running simultaneously (no cards installed) each being fed from the two pairs of SE outs on the back of Yggdrasil. I'd be surprised if you don't hear quite a difference. Just be sure to set volume levels equally, with a sound level meter if possible. I run both on high gain with my Abyss and the Jot requires a 11 o'clock setting where the LYR3 is about 10 o'clock. Got the Ken-Rad heating up for this afternoon's listening session, the first serious one with it.


----------



## Ripper2860

I have a Ken-Rad on the way and can't wait to give it a try.  I ordered the Lyr 3 with the standard Russian and Tung-Sol tube and frankly have not even tried the standard tube.  The Tung-Sol sounds pretty darn good after about 30 hours of burn-in!


----------



## Rhamnetin

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> What HP are you using that you like better with Lyr 3?



Planars! ZMF Blackwood and even the Audeze LCD-4 for now. Lyr 3 is a great match for planars, allowing their extra driving force and impact to really shine through.


----------



## JRey

Rhamnetin said:


> Planars! ZMF Blackwood and even the Audeze LCD-4 for now. Lyr 3 is a great match for planars, allowing their extra driving force and impact to really shine through.


I agree. I tried my HE4xx and it was the better headphone to use.


----------



## Ripper2860

I currently use a Hifiman HE400S and am quite happy with the sound -- more bass impact and a wider soundstage.  I will be ordering a Sundara in the next few weeks and already have the Massdrop HD6XX on order for arrival sometime in August.  It's going to be fun giving the Lyr 3 a next-level-up Planar and highly regarded dynamic to work with.


----------



## Motocrossman24

Ripper2860 said:


> I currently use a Hifiman HE400S and am quite happy with the sound -- more bass impact and a wider soundstage.  I will be ordering a Sundara in the next few weeks and already have the Massdrop HD6XX on order for arrival sometime in August.  It's going to be fun giving the Lyr 3 a next-level-up Planar and highly regarded dynamic to work with.



Consider the he560 over the sundara. I absolutely love my 560 and wouldn’t trade it for any of the hifiman headphones under a grand.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Motocrossman24 said:


> Consider the he560 over the sundara. I absolutely love my 560 and wouldn’t trade it for any of the hifiman headphones under a grand.



Have you listened to the Sundara?


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Well, ordered a Lyr3 and AFO, both should be here Wednesday.  Been looking to ditch my X2, I liked them at first but quickly found them just overall muddy and awful.  Lyr 3 was an addon impulse splurge. :|  I'll probably order an addon DAC for my Jot and take it to work.

So this will be my first foray into tubes.  Schiit says leave their stuff on all the time.  I assume this doesn't apply to a tube amp.  However, I imagine on *this* amp it's okay to turn it on for the day and just do nightly shutdowns?


----------



## FLTWS

GoodRevrnd said:


> Well, ordered a Lyr3 and AFO, both should be here Wednesday.  Been looking to ditch my X2, I liked them at first but quickly found them just overall muddy and awful.  Lyr 3 was an addon impulse splurge. :|  I'll probably order an addon DAC for my Jot and take it to work.
> 
> So this will be my first foray into tubes.  Schiit says leave their stuff on all the time.  I assume this doesn't apply to a tube amp.  However, I imagine on *this* amp it's okay to turn it on for the day and just do nightly shutdowns?



That's generally what I do, or if I know I'm done for the day, or I know it won't be a listening day.


----------



## Wes S

FLTWS said:


> That's generally what I do, or if I know I'm done for the day, or I know it won't be a listening day.


Me too.  So far so good. . .


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 25, 2018)

Ditto above.  I shut it down when I know I won't be listening for a couple of hours, when I leave for the office, and at night before I go to bed.  This is my first foray into tubes, but the GTB Tung-Sol or standard Russian tube that can be bought with Lyr 3 are long-life tubes and relatively cheap, so I'm not really concerned.  Now if if/when I tube roll with old and rare/expensive tubes, then I would likely be a bit more concerned with tube life and idle power times.

Speaking of tube rolling -- what are thoughts on Cryo treated tubes?  

<Runs fast and far having opened a can of worms!!>


----------



## FLTWS

Cryo...Meh!


----------



## Ripper2860

I think it's unscientifically proven BS as it relates to vacuum tubes, but curious what others have to say about it


----------



## FLTWS (May 25, 2018)

Another thought on leaving the tubes on; I think price could be a consideration. I've got some pricey 6DJ8 pairs of Telefunken and Amperex, I would "not" cook'em all day unless I knew a listening session with my MJ2 was definitely on my schedule.


----------



## Ripper2860

FLTWS said:


> I would cook'em all day unless I knew a listening session with my MJ2 was definitely on my schedule.



You Would or Wouldn't cook them all day?


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> You Would or Wouldn't cook them all day?



Your right, I would "not", I'll make a correction. Thanks for the catch.


----------



## ProfFalkin

GoodRevrnd said:


> However, I imagine on *this* amp it's okay to turn it on for the day and just do nightly shutdowns


That's exactly what I do.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I think it's unscientifically proven BS as it relates to vacuum tubes, but curious what others have to say about it



I'll let 'ya know what I hear in a few weeks. Getting ready to send off a bunch of Fotons. Have enough from each year to keep a couple and send a couple, so A/B'ing will be easier when I get the frozen ones back. Nothing ventured nothing gained, and it's not all that expensive to find out whether there's any audible improvement. I've never heard anyone report that treating tubes makes them sound worse, but some of the claims on improvement are rather hard to believe.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

AFO better suited to low or high gain on this amp?  I understand planars like moar power but these are very low impedance.


----------



## FLTWS

bcowen said:


> I'll let 'ya know what I hear in a few weeks. Getting ready to send off a bunch of Fotons. Have enough from each year to keep a couple and send a couple, so A/B'ing will be easier when I get the frozen ones back. Nothing ventured nothing gained, and it's not all that expensive to find out whether there's any audible improvement. I've never heard anyone report that treating tubes makes them sound worse, but some of the claims on improvement are rather hard to believe.



Interested to hear your experience. I ordered some of my 6DJ8 stock for my MJ2 with cryo (didn't add much to the price), but  I never had same brand/make non-cryo's to check against them so I'm not sure what I was thinking, LOL!

I've read what I could on cryo treatment and what I remember is that whatever the effect is on the materials it may not last.

I've also read about taking old NOS tubes and using a special slow process of warm up (with special equipment I guess) so as to not "shock" them with full voltage values immediately if they've been sitting  idle since, say, the 1940's. I've never read anything on the veracity of such a process.


----------



## bcowen

GoodRevrnd said:


> AFO better suited to low or high gain on this amp?  I understand planars like moar power but these are very low impedance.



I have the AFC's, and like the sound better on the high gain setting. The low gain is a little smoother in the treble, but the dynamics are better on high gain, at least to me. Try both. It's not like the Aeon's of either variety come close to taxing the Lyr 3 even in low gain.


----------



## EagleWings

GoodRevrnd said:


> AFO better suited to low or high gain on this amp?  I understand planars like moar power but these are very low impedance.



LG is just fine. HG makes the AFO slightly brighter in the upper-mids and treble. I bought the AFO for its smoothness and forgiving quality, so I preferred it on LG.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> Interested to hear your experience. I ordered some of my 6DJ8 stock for my MJ2 with cryo (didn't add much to the price), but  I never had same brand/make non-cryo's to check against them so I'm not sure what I was thinking, LOL!
> 
> I've read what I could on cryo treatment and what I remember is that whatever the effect is on the materials it may not last.
> 
> I've also read about taking old NOS tubes and using a special slow process of warm up (with special equipment I guess) so as to not "shock" them with full voltage values immediately if they've been sitting  idle since, say, the 1940's. I've never read anything on the veracity of such a process.



I've read that on the slow warm-up somewhere too. IIRC, it was a tube vendor's site that went on and on about it, and one of the main reasons you should buy from them. I don't have or know of anything to refute it, but it wasn't convincing enough for me to buy their tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 25, 2018)

The whole reason I asked about Cryo treated tubes is that I can get a same Lyr 3 Tung-Sol hand-picked and Cryo treated for $37 and some change -- $12 more than regular T/S from Schiit.  Given that I like the Tung-Sol with the Lyr 3, I thought Hmmmm... maybe worth a shot.

I too hear Cryo treated tubes are no worse off than the non-treated version (no negative effects or damage) so not too much lost if it's a bust -- I'll just have a backup T/S tube ready to go.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tung-sol-6sn7gtb?variant=21830453637


----------



## skyline315 (May 25, 2018)

GoodRevrnd said:


> AFO better suited to low or high gain on this amp?  I understand planars like moar power but these are very low impedance.


Depends on the tube.  Seriously.

The NOS Russian tube works better in high gain.

The new TS in low gain.

@ProfFalkin seemed to have a similar experience, though he didn't use the AFO.

*EDIT*  The difference doesn't seem to be AS dramatic once the tube is burned in.  But, I stand by it


----------



## JamesCanada

Anyone have the Loki as an addition to this setup ?
Also, anyone running hd 800’s


----------



## ProfFalkin

skyline315 said:


> Depends on the tube.  Seriously.
> 
> The NOS Russian tube works better in high gain.
> 
> ...


I concur.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 25, 2018)

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone have the Loki as an addition to this setup ?
> Also, anyone running hd 800’s



My HP rig consists of: *Schiit EITR USB-S/PDIF converter | Schiit Modi Multibit DAC | Schiit Lyr 3 amp | Schiit Loki Mini*

I use the Loki for slight tweaking of headphone deficiencies.  A tiny bit of bass boost (20Hz nob) and a slight treble cut (8Khz nob) for my Hifiman HE 400S works nicely.  Tweaks are not needed as a result of the amplifier, but as a result of the headphone characteristics and my preferences.  Honestly, I've had to lower the amount of adjustment since adding the Lyr 3 as Lyr 3 actually seems to take the HE 400S up a notch sound-wise -- especially when it comes to  providing a deeper more extended bass.  The Tung-Sol tube also smoothed out the treble peak harshness present when used with the Magni 3.  Loki is for fine adjustments to better suit your preference or to adjust for headphone deficiencies.  I've found that using the Loki with Lyr 3 is not detrimental to the Lyr 3 at all and provides a nice compliment.


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> The whole reason I asked about Cryo treated tubes is that I can get a same Lyr 3 Tung-Sol hand-picked and Cryo treated for $37 and some change -- $12 more than regular T/S from Schiit.  Given that I like the Tung-Sol with the Lyr 3, I thought Hmmmm... maybe worth a shot.
> 
> I too hear Cryo treated tubes are no worse off than the non-treated version (no negative effects or damage) so not too much lost if it's a bust -- I'll just have a backup T/S tube ready to go.
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tung-sol-6sn7gtb?variant=21830453637



At that price why not try it, and I like Upscale and trust what I get. Got some excellent 6DJ8's for my MJ2 from them.


----------



## earnmyturns

bcowen said:


> I have the AFC's, and like the sound better on the high gain setting. The low gain is a little smoother in the treble, but the dynamics are better on high gain, at least to me. Try both. It's not like the Aeon's of either variety come close to taxing the Lyr 3 even in low gain.


Interesting... My default headphones are Ether C Flow, and I prefer low gain, especially with Ken-Rad Vt-231. I also own AFC, which I normally use at work but are home currently (dac1541 from work is doing home duty while Yggy is being upgraded), should check.


----------



## bcowen

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone have the Loki as an addition to this setup ?
> Also, anyone running hd 800’s



Yes, and no.


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> Interesting... My default headphones are Ether C Flow, and I prefer low gain, especially with Ken-Rad Vt-231. I also own AFC, which I normally use at work but are home currently (dac1541 from work is doing home duty while Yggy is being upgraded), should check.



I've been listening exclusively to the Fotons here of late. The ribbed plate versions are so smooth and fatigue-free in the upper mids and treble that the bit of emphasis in that area using high gain is not a liability. In fact it's probably a benefit. I agree too with what @skyline315 posted previously on the setting being tube dependent -- I prefer low gain with the Raytheon VT-231, for example.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 26, 2018)

bcowen said:


> .  I have both a staggered plate version and a non-staggered flat plate version (which is 1960's production AFAIK). The non-staggered sounds very good, but the staggered is much better. Never had a T-plate to listen to.
> 
> 
> Now you're getting me confused.   I have 2 versions, both with clear glass and flat plates that are parallel to each other.  The plates in one are offset in location respective to each other, and directly mirroring each other in the other (but again are parallel to each other in both cases). Your plates are angled in relation to each other?  And now there's a T-plate and smoked glass to throw into the mix?  Yikes.  I'm going back to my Fotons.
> ...



I received my 40's NOS Ken-Rad tube (VT-231) clear glass.  No pics yet, but I can confirm that the plates are black, offset/staggered and parallel to each other.  I'm liking what I'm hearing so far with just an hour or so of break-in.  I'm heading to  a concert tonight and I'll leave the amp on to make sure the KR simmers to further blossom prior to an extended critical listening session tomorrow.

BTW -- I tried the standard Russian tube that ships with the Lyr 3 for a few minutes until the KR arrived.  Not too shabby really -- very neutral.  Not a very exciting tube, but that may actually be a good thing.  I'll need to give it some time to see what it actually can do.

(I fear that this whole tube rolling thing has now got me by the wallet.)


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> I received my 40's NOS Ken-Rad tube (VT-231) clear glass.  No pics yet, but I can confirm that the plates are black, offset/staggered and parallel to each other.  I'm liking what I'm hearing so far with just an hour or so of break-in.  I'm heading to  a concert tonight and I'll leave the amp on to make sure the KR simmers to further blossoms prior to an extended critical listening session tomorrow.
> 
> BTW -- I tried the standard Russian tube that ships with the Lyr 3 for a few minutes until the KR arrived.  Not too shabby really -- very neutral.  Not a very exciting tube, but that may actually be a good thing.  I'll need to give it some time to see what it actually can do.
> 
> (I fear that this whole tube rolling thing is now got me by the wallet.)



It's just gettin' started. It'll squeeze more than your wallet before its done, LOL!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 26, 2018)

Well, it will certainly test the bounds of my marriage.   Considering the marriage survived my vintage camera lens addiction phase, I'm pretty confident this too shall pass with the marriage intact.  

Next on my radar is one of the following:

Early RCA Red Base 5692
Early RCA Smoked/Grey Glass
A legitimate Sylvania Bad Boy

or a divorce lawyer.  


Seriously -- I don't see me going beyond a 5 or 6 tubes over an above the stock and Tung-Sol.  Quality vs. quantity w/o going insane.


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, it will certainly test the bounds of my marriage.   Considering the marriage survived my vintage camera lens addiction phase, I'm pretty confident this too shall pass with the marriage intact.
> 
> Next on my radar is one of the following:
> 
> ...



Fun choices. Insuring your getting legitimate ones is the hairy part.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, it will certainly test the bounds of my marriage.   Considering the marriage survived my vintage camera lens addiction phase, I'm pretty confident this too shall pass with the marriage intact.
> 
> Next on my radar is one of the following:
> 
> ...



Sanity is subjective.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, it will certainly test the bounds of my marriage.   Considering the marriage survived my vintage camera lens addiction phase, I'm pretty confident this too shall pass with the marriage intact.
> 
> Next on my radar is one of the following:
> 
> ...


Both the RCA tubes you mentioned haven't been reviewed as matching well with the Lyr3.  Just saying.  I have a grey glass and the treble is very soft.  Very.   Maybe good if you want to tame bright headphones.  (But if you bought headphones that are too bright, save the money on buying tubes and get better headphones...)

The red base and bad boy was reviewed by someone else a few pages back, I can't remember who. 

Thought I'd advise caution.


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> Sanity is subjective.


Insanity - great place to visit, but you don't want to live there.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> Both the RCA tubes you mentioned haven't been reviewed as matching well with the Lyr3.  Just saying.  I have a grey glass and the treble is very soft.  Very.   Maybe good if you want to tame bright headphones.  (But if you bought headphones that are too bright, save the money on buying tubes and get better headphones...)
> 
> The red base and bad boy was reviewed by someone else a few pages back, I can't remember who.
> 
> Thought I'd advise caution.



Duly noted.  Bad Boy has moved up and added a Raytheon GTB to the list.  

Thanks!!


----------



## riffrafff

bcowen said:


> Sanity is subjective.



And overrated.


----------



## Wes S (May 27, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Duly noted.  Bad Boy has moved up and added a Raytheon GTB to the list.
> 
> Thanks!!


I happen to really like the RCA grey glass.  More for me!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Duly noted.  Bad Boy has moved up and added a Raytheon GTB to the list.
> 
> Thanks!!



An opinion on that one too, FWIW. There are (at least) two versions of the Raytheon VT-231, one with T-plates and one with flat plates. The flat plate version was virtually unlistenable to me in the Lyr with a treble presentation that was downright painful. I even tried a different flat plate tube just to see if the first one was an outlier, but no...both sucked. Didn't have enough band-aids left to soak up the shredded eardrum blood to give a 3rd one a try.  

The T-plate version is a completely different animal. It's a great sounding tube in the Lyr and worth seeking out, at least IMO


Two on the left are T-plates; 3 on the right are flat plates:


----------



## Wes S (May 27, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, it will certainly test the bounds of my marriage.   Considering the marriage survived my vintage camera lens addiction phase, I'm pretty confident this too shall pass with the marriage intact.
> 
> Next on my radar is one of the following:
> 
> ...


The RCA grey glass, early to mid 40's, is a really good tube, with warmth.  Even some really nice and expensive headphones can need a "little taming in the top end some times.  Or maybe you just want a little more bass/midbass, for your days listening session.  This tube can do it.  This tube is not a do it all tube, but it does have it's strengths and I am glad I have a few, for changing things up every now and then.  You want 1 tube to do it all, then KenRad is it.


----------



## FLTWS

bcowen said:


> An opinion on that one too, FWIW. There are (at least) two versions of the Raytheon VT-231, one with T-plates and one with flat plates. The flat plate version was virtually unlistenable to me in the Lyr with a treble presentation that was downright painful. I even tried a different flat plate tube just to see if the first one was an outlier, but no...both sucked. Didn't have enough band-aids left to soak up the shredded eardrum blood to give a 3rd one a try.
> 
> The T-plate version is a completely different animal. It's a great sounding tube in the Lyr and worth seeking out, at least IMO
> 
> ...



That explains / confirms my disappointment with the Raytheon, the one I have is flat plate.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> That explains / confirms my disappointment with the Raytheon, the one I have is flat plate.



Certainly anecdotal, but what I've gathered is that those who have spoken favorably about this tube have the T-plate version. 

I was scratching my head too after listening to the flat plate and then reading all the positive impressions.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

Wes S said:


> I happen to really like the RCA grey glass.  More for me!





Wes S said:


> The RCA grey glass, early to mid 40's, is a really good tube, with warmth.  Even some really nice and expensive headphones can need a "little taming in the top end some times.  Or maybe you just want a little more bass/midbass, for your days listening session.  This tube can do it.  This tube is not a do it all tube, but it does have it's strengths and I am glad I have a few, for changing things up every now and then.  You want 1 tube to do it all, then KenRad is it.



It's not off the list -- just moved down the list given the prices typically seen.  If I find a bargain, I will not hesitate to pull the trigger.  I always try to keep in mind that this stuff is subject to the variations in particular MFG designs, folks listening preferences, etc.  I find generalities are typically not accurate, as in XXX sucks and YYY is awesome!  More specifics are typically required as a slight change in plate design, getter, etc., can make a huge difference, however, the model number and other physical characteristics of the tube can remain the same.  Arrrrgh!!  It's a bit confusing for a toob noob, but all part of the experience.

 After about 24 hours of simmering, the Ken-Rad is really coming into its own and is producing a wonderfully rich and layered sound.  Definitely living up to the hype!!


----------



## Zachik

From following this thread, and reading ALL posts, it sounds like the consensus is:
- Stock Tung Sol from Schiit is pretty good (especially for its $25 price)
- Most agreed upon upgrade tube, especially for those who just want 1 great do-it-all tube and not keep rolling, is the Ken-Rad VT231

Any tips / advice on the Ken-Rad, other than buying from reputable sellers?!
Should I look for specific year(s)?

Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Zachik said:


> From following this thread, and reading ALL posts, it sounds like the consensus is:
> - Stock Tung Sol from Schiit is pretty good (especially for its $25 price)
> - Most agreed upon upgrade tube, especially for those who just want 1 great do-it-all tube and not keep rolling, is the Ken-Rad VT231
> 
> ...


Just look for staggered plates.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> From following this thread, and reading ALL posts, it sounds like the consensus is:
> - Stock Tung Sol from Schiit is pretty good (especially for its $25 price)
> - Most agreed upon upgrade tube, especially for those who just want 1 great do-it-all tube and not keep rolling, is the Ken-Rad VT231
> 
> ...





Wes S said:


> Just look for staggered plates.



Clear glass.  The black glass is different.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

Zachik said:


> From following this thread, and reading ALL posts, it sounds like the consensus is:
> - Stock Tung Sol from Schiit is pretty good (especially for its $25 price)
> - Most agreed upon upgrade tube, especially for those who just want 1 great do-it-all tube and not keep rolling, is the Ken-Rad VT231
> 
> ...



Ditto.  Ken-Rad w/ clear glass and staggered plates (off-set but parallel to each other).  Look for 40's stock -- either 6SN7GT or VT-231 (VT-231 is the military label/catalog # according to what I've found.  The KR 6SN7GT and VT-231 are supposedly the same tubes.)  There are several reputable sources, I just happened to get my New Old Stock VT-231 from http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html

I would also spend another $8 and get the stock Russian tube along with the Tung-Sol from Schiit.  It's actually a pretty nice tube with a very neutral sound.  Some find it a bit dry, but depending on your headphones and listening preferences, you may find it quite appealing.  It's certainly not a bad sounding tube and may surprise you (once simmered for 24+ hours).  Neither are quite at the level of the Ken-Rad, however -- at least in my opinion.


----------



## ilikepooters (May 27, 2018)

Novosibirsk (Pentagon logo) 6N1P-EV with an adaptor sounds fantastic and beats the stock Tung Sol, LISST and an RCA Red base 5692 to my ears. Really presents a more vast holographic soundstage than all of them.

I'm listening with HE-500's FWIW

For a pair of tubes + adaptor it'll probably work out at $18 for you guys over the pond, worth rolling.


----------



## betula

Is it possible to own a Lyr3 without falling down the rabbit hole of tube rolling?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

I thought it was, but now I realize how foolish I was in thinking so.


----------



## Ripper2860

ilikepooters said:


> Novosibirsk (Pentagon logo) 6N1P-EV with an adaptor sounds fantastic and beats the stock Tung Sol, LISST and an RCA Red base 5692 to my ears. Really presents a more vast holographic soundstage than all of them.
> 
> I'm listening with HE-500's FWIW
> 
> For a pair of tubes + adaptor it'll probably work out at $18 for you guys over the pond, worth rolling.



OMG!!  You mean I'm not limited to 6SN7 family of tubes??!!  

(That's it.  I'm doomed.)


----------



## ilikepooters (May 27, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> OMG!!  You mean I'm not limited to 6SN7 family of tubes??!!
> 
> (That's it.  I'm doomed.)




Plenty of types to roll but most need adaptors.

6F8G (same tube as 6sn7 but in a coke bottle shape with a top cap and added shield, needs adaptor)
ECC88 / 6DJ8 / 6N23P family (even Schiit themselves say you can run these with adaptor, i've tried 6N23P  and sounds great)
6CG7 / 6FQ7 are electrically equivalent to 6SN7 but in a 9 pin noval envelope, needs adaptor.

6N1P family, 6BQ7A / 6BZ7 (closest western equivalent to 6N1P)


Those are all safe to roll but if you buy an adaptor make sure you check it for correct wiring and shorts.

There are probably more that will work, but if you think of a tube ask Schiit if safe to use to make sure.


----------



## jconde

Wes S said:


> Just look for staggered plates.




Any idea how much one of these with the staggered glass will cost?  I believe Brent does not have them in stock.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

I paid $85 ($75+$10 shipping) for a NOS 40's 6SN7GT Ken-Rad w/ Clear Glass and Staggered Plates.  However, seller shipped me a NOS VT-231 instead.  If this was a ploy to earn my ongoing business -- IT WORKED!!  I just don't know enough to trust used tubes via eBay and prices for KR's are all over the map -- some in excess of $100.  

SND Tube Sales: http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html

Call or drop Mike an e-mail with any questions.

BTW -- considerably cheaper if you don't mind used and tested tubes.


----------



## ProfFalkin (May 27, 2018)

betula said:


> Is it possible to own a Lyr3 without falling down the rabbit hole of tube rolling?



Yes.   Order it with stock tube (Russian NOS) if you want a fairly neutral sound.   If you want a bit more enegery and oomph, get the new TS tube.   Either are completely serviceable for the Lyr 3. Just shy away from the LISST as it's not as good as the NOS Russian tube IMO.

The Lyr 3 stands on it's own as a very good amp with either of the stock tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

ProfFalkin said:


> The Lyr 3 stands on it's own as a very good amp with either of the stock tubes.



Now you tell me ...


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> Yes.   Order it with stock tube (Russian NOS) if you want a fairly neutral sound.   If you want a bit more enegery and oomph, get the new TS tube.   Either are completely serviceable for the Lyr 3. Just shy away from the LISST as it's not as good as the NOS Russian tube IMO.
> 
> The Lyr 3 stands on it's own as a very good amp with either of the stock tubes.



Agree, but OTOH rolling tubes is fun and far better than letting your wife have the money to go buy more shoes.


----------



## earnmyturns

ProfFalkin said:


> Clear glass.  The black glass is different.


Different how? The Ken-Rad VT-231 I got from Brent Jessee has smoky glass, staggered plates.


----------



## Ripper2860

As far as I know, there is no difference between clear and black glass versions.  Resellers also state they are the same. 

I like to see the tube innards and like the glow, so clear glass was my preferred type.


----------



## ProfFalkin

The black plates/smoked glass ones I have are darker and roll treble.  The clear glass didn't.  BUT...  My smoked glass might be Tung Sol, not Ken Rad.   They are out on loan so I can't even check.   If I'm wrong, sorry.


----------



## earnmyturns

ProfFalkin said:


> The black plates/smoked glass ones I have are darker and roll treble.  The clear glass didn't.  BUT...  My smoked glass might be Tung Sol, not Ken Rad.   They are out on loan so I can't even check.   If I'm wrong, sorry.


No treble roll that I could hear, but then my high frequency hearing is well past its prime. It sounds more spacious  and full-bodied than the stock new Tung Sol, which might correlate with dark, but overall it does not sound dark to me.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> As far as I know, there is no difference between clear and black glass versions.  Resellers also state they are the same.
> 
> I like to see the tube innards and like the glow, so clear glass was my preferred type.


The glow and plates show through the less smoky top of the tube I have.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2018)

Thanks.  I was not sure as pictures on eBay seemed to show them as pretty dark.  Likely image quality or monitor settings.

I am going to purchase another KR as a spare and will likely make it the smokey glass for coolnes factor.


----------



## Zachik

Wes S said:


> Just look for staggered plates.





ProfFalkin said:


> Clear glass.  The black glass is different.





Ripper2860 said:


> Ditto.  Ken-Rad w/ clear glass and staggered plates (off-set but parallel to each other).  Look for 40's stock -- either 6SN7GT or VT-231 (VT-231 is the military label/catalog # according to what I've found.  The KR 6SN7GT and VT-231 are supposedly the same tubes.)  There are several reputable sources, I just happened to get my New Old Stock VT-231 from http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html
> 
> I would also spend another $8 and get the stock Russian tube along with the Tung-Sol from Schiit.  It's actually a pretty nice tube with a very neutral sound.  Some find it a bit dry, but depending on your headphones and listening preferences, you may find it quite appealing.  It's certainly not a bad sounding tube and may surprise you (once simmered for 24+ hours).  Neither are quite at the level of the Ken-Rad, however -- at least in my opinion.



Thanks guys!
That VT-231 is pricey... almost $100


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 28, 2018)

FYI -- You can get Ken-Rad VT-231 used/tested for $50 or a used/tested non-military labelled Ken-Rad 6SN7GT for $45 at the same site.  It's the same tube -- just not labelled with the military catalog # (VT-231).


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> FYI -- You can get Ken-Rad VT-231 used/tested for $50 or a used/tested non-military labelled Ken-Rad 6SN7GT for $45 at the same site.  It's the same tube -- just not labelled with the military catalog # (VT-231).


Anyone have experience buying used tubes from this seller? Since it is a reputable seller, how much of a chance / risk am I taking buying used?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> Anyone have experience buying used tubes from this seller? Since it is a reputable seller, how much of a chance / risk am I taking buying used?


If you buy from ebay, good freaking luck.   You're rolling the dice.

Otherwise, from Bent Jesse or other places, they generally test them pretty well before selling them.   Better chance of getting a good one there.   Now, it might mean you get less hours use out of it, but no telling by how much.


----------



## Wes S

Well.  I have had just as much luck with ebay, as i have had with brent jesse and vintage tube service.  I have had returns and exchanges with noisy tubes from all of them, recently.  As long as the seller offers returns and gives test results, go for it.   It is a crap shoot unless you actually see them testing them. . .no matter who is selling them.


----------



## Wes S

KenRad - staggered plates in either black or clear glass is the exact same tube and sound.  I have 5 of each color and they all sound the same.


----------



## betula

Am I correct, if I expect the Lyr3 to sound smoother with more bass compared to the Chord Mojo?


----------



## FLTWS

Anybody know (or are aware of a source) how many different plate shapes there are for 6SN7 types?
The more I play / listen with these the more interesting this tube type becomes.
Thanks for any info.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Anyone have experience buying used tubes from this seller? Since it is a reputable seller, how much of a chance / risk am I taking buying used?



Which seller? SND? If so, I've purchased from them several times over the years and received exactly what was advertised. Here's a few more I've personally purchased from (some already mentioned) with good success:

http://www.audiotubes.com/
http://vintagetubeservices.com/
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/
https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm

I've had mostly good luck on Ebay, though I've also received supposedly 'tested good' tubes with dead shorts in them which is not a happy situation. Some amps have fuse(s) or sacrificial resistors that blow and protect the amp, some report such a condition with smoke signals. I don't know what would happen with the Lyr 3.  Not suggesting you shouldn't buy from Ebay just be aware of the risk and pick/choose the seller carefully. Unfortunately the feedback rating is worthless, as one of the most prolific re-labelers in the business (BangyBangTubes) has 100% positive feedback...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Okay Tube Slueths, I have a pair of Baldwinwwew e 6SN7 GTB’s, t-plates, the first three hole, the second two, with a round top getter. Pictures are attached, I think they were sourced from Sylvania due to the code, but they kick like a mule. As usual, any feedback is appreciated!


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> If you buy from ebay, good freaking luck.   You're rolling the dice.
> 
> Otherwise, from Bent Jesse or other places, they generally test them pretty well before selling them.   Better chance of getting a good one there.   Now, it might mean you get less hours use out of it, but no telling by how much.


Thank you ProfFalkin. Makes total sense, and I understand the less hours part, but for me personally, the difference would be between 10 years and maybe 7-8 years...   Unfortunately, I do not have time to listen to music for several hours every single day...  



bcowen said:


> Which seller? SND? If so, I've purchased from them several times over the years and received exactly what was advertised. Here's a few more I've personally purchased from (some already mentioned) with good success:
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/
> http://vintagetubeservices.com/
> ...


bcowen - GREAT information!! Thanks - will be buying from someone in your recommended list


----------



## bcowen

On the left is the favored staggered plate Ken-Rad, and on the right is a staggered plate RCA I found today buried in with the 6SL7 stash. Flap missing on the box and silkscreen gone, so no identification anywhere. But test readings are in line with a 6SN7 and way too high for a 6SL7 so I'm going to assume it's the former. 1962 date code, so maybe a far cry from the '46 KR (and maybe a far cry regardless of the date). Or maybe it was made by KR and the difference in dates accounts for the difference in the plate stamping and micas? Time to give it to the Lyr...


----------



## exdmd

I understand the appeal of tube rolling have done my fair share. Just don't expect to improve SQ from a $499 Lyr 3 into what a TOTL $2000 to $3000 tube amp provides by just changing a tube; not going to happen. Sorry about that.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 28, 2018)

Well I'm out then!!

But wait -- what if it's a really, really, bad $1,000-$2,000 TOTL tube amp?


----------



## Mike-WI

exdmd said:


> I understand the appeal of tube rolling have done my fair share. Just don't expect to improve SQ from a $499 Lyr 3 into what a TOTL $2000 to $3000 tube amp provides by just changing a tube; not going to happen. Sorry about that.


In general, quality goes up with cost or price, but not always.
Just as with wine, sometimes it is rarity or just what can be charged rather than the inherent quality.

Mike


----------



## Ripper2860

On a somewhat related matter ...

Tube Coolers.  What do y'all think and if of merit, what do you recommend?

Thx.


----------



## exdmd

Mike-WI said:


> In general, quality goes up with cost or price, but not always.
> Just as with wine, sometimes it is rarity or just what can be charged rather than the inherent quality.
> 
> Mike



My point was I see some posters spending hundreds of dollars on tubes when they should instead be saving up for a Zana Deux S, Kenzie or DNA tube amp. Watch the for sale board and pick one up used even.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 28, 2018)

And there's the rub.  Saving = self-discipline.  Not my strong suit, I'm afraid.  Plus it's easier to sneak a tube in the house than a DNA amp...   "What?  No honey, that's not another tube in my pocket.  I'm just happy to see you!!"  (Try that while sneaking in a DNA tube amp!)

Plus those DNA's have like 3 or 4 tubes -- the Lyr 3 has only 1. That's 3 or 4 tubes to roll meaning way more $$$.  And then there's the need for cargo pants to sneak them all home after shipping them to the office on the down-low.  The money is one thing, but I draw the line at cargo pants!!  


OK -- seriously.  Point well made.  Tube rolling is fun and if one puts limits on the amount they will  spend and quantity they will buy, it's a relatively harmless hobby.  And most 6SN7's are not that expensive -- for now.


----------



## bcowen

exdmd said:


> I understand the appeal of tube rolling have done my fair share. Just don't expect to improve SQ from a $499 Lyr 3 into what a TOTL $2000 to $3000 tube amp provides by just changing a tube; not going to happen. Sorry about that.



I seriously doubt anyone here has that expectation. What's your point?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> On a somewhat related matter ...
> 
> Tube Coolers.  What do y'all think and if of merit, what do you recommend?
> 
> Thx.



I have a couple that came on a pair of EAT tubes. Want 'em? Those tubes didn't last very long. Both lost vacuum (getter flash tuned white) after less than 6 months in use. Have no way of proving this one way or the other, but I have a suspicion those 'coolers' actually made things worse by creating hot spots and uneven heating/cooling which resulted in premature failure of the seal between the glass and the pins. Could have just been crap tubes -- EAT doesn't manufacture tubes, they only buy from an unspecified manufacturer, test, and apply their coolers.
The billions of tubes in past and present service seem to have done just fine without coolers, so to me they're a (dubious) solution looking for a problem. That's what *I* think, not that I have an opinion.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 28, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Baldwinwwew e 6SN7 GTB’s, t-plates, the first three hole, the second two, with a round top getter. Pictures are attached, I think they were sourced from Sylvania due to the code, but they kick like a mule. As usual, any feedback is appreciated!



I agree and also think they are Sylvania tubes.  I would imagine that being a musical instrument company, Baldwin would select tubes that favored audio applications, but what do I know.  




bcowen said:


> I have a couple that came on a pair of EAT tubes. Want 'em? Those tubes didn't last very long. Both lost vacuum (getter flash tuned white) after less than 6 months in use. Have no way of proving this one way or the other, but I have a suspicion those 'coolers' actually made things worse by creating hot spots and uneven heating/cooling which resulted in premature failure of the seal between the glass and the pins. Could have just been crap tubes -- EAT doesn't manufacture tubes, they only buy from an unspecified manufacturer, test, and apply their coolers.
> The billions of tubes in past and present service seem to have done just fine without coolers, so to me they're a (dubious) solution looking for a problem. That's what *I* think, not that I have an opinion.



As enticing as you've made your offer of free tube coolers sound, I think I'll pass.  ​


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I agree and also think they are Sylvania tubes.  I would imagine that being a musical instrument company, Baldwin would select tubes that favored audio application, but what do I know.
> 
> 
> 
> As enticing as you've made your offer of free tube coolers sound, I think I'll pass.  ​



Well, if you're sure. Hate for you to deprive yourself of something worthless.


----------



## FLTWS

Tube coolers? I don't like'em. A properly designed enclosure should provide adequate ventilation and cooling. If it doesn't I don't think tube coolers will make a difference.


----------



## exdmd

bcowen said:


> Which seller? SND? If so, I've purchased from them several times over the years and received exactly what was advertised. Here's a few more I've personally purchased from (some already mentioned) with good success:
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/
> http://vintagetubeservices.com/
> ...



I agree on eBay. Hit or miss. Out of your list I most like:

http://www.audiotubes.com/ (Brent Jessee ... the site is a bit of a pain to navigate though)
https://tubeworldexpress.com/ (where https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm points to and easier to navigate)

In my experience if Brent Jessee does not have what you are looking for Tube World Express will.


----------



## earnmyturns

You do need at least 1/2 hour after switch-on before close listening, at least with a Ken-Rad VT-231. Got back home from the long weekend and wanted to check a specific track in my collection. The rest of the chain (streamer, DDC, DAC) was powered up, but not the amp. Turned it on, cued the track a few minutes after. Yech, the band seemed to be playing from the bottom of a barrel. 30 minutes later, much better. 3 hours later, superb. It's not just habituation, in the meanwhile I also listened to my speaker system (although not with the being-upgraded Yggy, just with a Soekris dac1541 with 1.20 filters, which is pretty nice even if not Yggy level).


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 29, 2018)

Breaking-in the stock 68NS NOS Russian tube.  After about 5 hours, here are some initial thoughts ...

It's opening up a little bit.  While the vocals/midrange was a bit harsh and disappointing at first, it has smoothed out somewhat.  
Compared to the Ken-Rad and Tung-Sol, it sounds a bit congested with a more collapsed soundstage.
Although the mids are not as nice as the other 2 tubes, vocals and instruments do seem nicely placed and focused -- just a smaller stage that is not as open or airy.
Treble seems a bit rolled-off with bass lacking the extension of the KR and punch of the Tung-Sol, but not too shabby.
While it does present the textures and layers found in recordings, it is certainly not to the extent and clarity of the KR and Tung-SOL.
Remember, it's only been 5 hours.  I'm really curious to see what another 24 hours will do as far as additional improvements.  So far it's really quite a respectable and neutral tube for a value price of $8!  While nothing glorious, yet -- it is certainly nothing to be ashamed of either.


----------



## Motocrossman24

I just received a set of aeon flow closed through a loaner program, and upon early listening they seem to synergize quite nicely with the lyr3. And change tonality much more then with my he560.


----------



## ProfFalkin

exdmd said:


> My point was I see some posters spending hundreds of dollars on tubes when they should instead be saving up for a Zana Deux S, Kenzie or DNA tube amp. Watch the for sale board and pick one up used even.


That's assuming somebody wants a Zana Deuz S, Kenzie, or DNA amp sitting on their desk at work, which I don't.

The point you're trying to make doesn't fit into everybody's usage scenarios.


----------



## Freeflap

So, this is slightly off topic... I was inquiring about the Lyr3 when i was advised to spend the $$$ on better headphones first. I have the Monoprice m1060v2 with the upgraded copper cable. I upgraded the standard issue cable to the new copper cable and it changed the headphones. Great detail and space in the mids and treble. Frankly, i love this headphone, but i was curious, so went and bought a pair of used Ether Flow. i am listening to them on a JDS element using google play stream. 

I am unfortunately underwhelmed by the ether flow. After all the hype and ridiculous reviews, i kinda prefer my m1060. is that a function of the amp? or could there be something wrong with the ether flow? Or is there something wrong with ME?????

The ether flow have great detail, very clean, and refined sound, but they are laid back and "dark". the bass is stronger and deeper than the m1060, but the mids and treble feel tight and not airy, like i had the treble tone control dialed all the way down. If that is how they are supposed to sound, then the issue is just me, and i may need to get something different. I did order a silver braided cable thinking it might be a bit brighter in the upper range. hasn't arrived yet.

Could it be the jds element? i love that amp but it does need to work harder to drive the ether flow. the m1060 is a ridiculously easy set of headphones to drive. I have to crank the volume way up for the ether to get the same volume output. 

so, back to the lyr3. Is this something i should consider upgrading to match the ether flow? most reviews say the ether are a bit on the bright side, but frankly that is the opposite of what i'm hearing. thx for any help.


----------



## GoodRevrnd (May 29, 2018)

Monoprice -> Ether Flow?  Wow that's a big jump.  I thought my X2 & DT770 -> AFO was excessive.

I've never heard Ether Flow, but your description generally sounds like what it's supposed to be.  My only comment would be since they're planar, if the amp is underpowered it might make them sound a little anemic.


----------



## ProfFalkin

GoodRevrnd said:


> Monoprice -> Ether C?  Wow that's a big jump.  I thought my X2 & DT770 -> AFO was excessive.


Ether flow is a big jump.  The Aeon flow I have read will match well.  No clue on the Ether.

I did hear the original Ether.  Bright is a good term for those.

I've only heard the element a few times, so I couldn't really tell you how it compares.


----------



## Freeflap

There are three things I believe in regarding audio / technology:
1. The law of diminishing returns. The curve towards very expensive tech usually carries small increases in performance. I like to sit on the sweet spot for tech performance / price ratio. As a used pair, the ether flow fit that criteria well. If i bought new maybe the aeon flow? 
2. Used vs new: Whenever possible, buy high quality used. Let the first owner take the hit on depreciation. This applies to high end cans, sports cars, and swiss watches especially. 
3. Incremental upgrades are expensive: if you look back at the times you have made small upgrades in either amps / speakers / headphones, etc.. and then add the $$$ spent vs just jumping to the end of the line, i bet for most of us, that is the more expensive path. 

This is why i jumped to the ether flow. I can always sell back to ebay if these just aren't my cup of tea. I was just wondering if there is something else I need to do. If a pair of planar headphones is defective, would it sound dark? I'm guessing not, but i don't know for sure. 


thx!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 29, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Breaking-in the stock 68NS NOS Russian tube.  After about 5 hours, here are some initial thoughts ...
> 
> It's opening up a little bit.  While the vocals/midrange was a bit harsh and disappointing at first, it has smoothed out somewhat.
> Compared to the Ken-Rad and Tung-Sol, it sounds a bit congested with a more collapsed soundstage.
> ...



Well, after 24 hours, the stock NOS Russian tube seems to have opened up a little bit more leading to a less congested sound.  Earlier assessment of other attributes (highs, bass soundstage, air, etc) pretty much remain the same.  If your headphones are a bit too bright for you, this tube could be a nice pairing.  All-in-all, not a bad tube.  Doesn't really excel in any one area and really doesn't suck in any one area.  A good neutral/unoffensive tube representing a good 1st tube experience at a value price.

Going back to the Ken-Rad ...

... for now ...

(I couldn't help it !!)

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/early-russian-6h8c-6sn7?variant=21829016965


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, after 24 hours, the stock NOS Russian tube seems to have opened up a little bit more leading to a less congested sound.  Earlier assessment of other attributes (highs, bass soundstage, air, etc) pretty much remain the same.  If your headphones are a bit too bright for you, this tube could be a nice pairing.  All-in-all, not a bad tube.  Doesn't really excel in any one area and really doesn't suck in any one area.  A good neutral/unoffensive tube representing a good 1st tube experience at a value price.
> 
> Going back to the Ken-Rad ...
> 
> ...



I just finished up a session with this very same tube from Upscale (I got the stock Tung-Sol with the LYR 3). I found this pretty much as you said of the stock version. I did note a very, very slight bit of grit in the highs most noticeable on large scale orchestral works at peaks but other than that I especially liked this tube with Jazz and Rock. It's a bit close-in to the players, but clean enough to be exciting in a good way. Smaller ensembles typical of Jazz and Rock aren't usually recorded in a large acoustic space so I didn't find it a problem. Percussive effects in particular were effectively brought across with nice attack and decay on this tube.

And, that completes my first traversal of all 11 6SN7's I have. I'll do some casual listening for a while to get some more hours on the tubes and make one more run through the gauntlet when I get back from vacation next month (and see how the queue is for Yggy B at that point). I need to get some fine dining and drinking in for a change of pace. Let my ear cool down.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 29, 2018)

FLTWS said:


> I found this pretty much as you said of the stock version.



Dratz.  The older Russian tubes seem to garner a high level of praise.  I was hoping for a diamond in the rough sounding more akin to a Melz 68HC than to the supplied NOS Russian tube that comes with Lyr 3.  It'll be fun to see how she does.  Who knows -- maybe you got a bum tube!!


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> So, this is slightly off topic... I was inquiring about the Lyr3 when i was advised to spend the $$$ on better headphones first. I have the Monoprice m1060v2 with the upgraded copper cable. I upgraded the standard issue cable to the new copper cable and it changed the headphones. Great detail and space in the mids and treble. Frankly, i love this headphone, but i was curious, so went and bought a pair of used Ether Flow. i am listening to them on a JDS element using google play stream.
> 
> I am unfortunately underwhelmed by the ether flow. After all the hype and ridiculous reviews, i kinda prefer my m1060. is that a function of the amp? or could there be something wrong with the ether flow? Or is there something wrong with ME?????
> 
> ...



The Ether's are a bit less sensitive than the m1060's (92dB vs 96dB), but they have an easier impedance load at 32 ohms vs 50.  If the specs are true for both, I would expect the Ethers to play at the same level (and probably louder) at a given volume setting. If you're having to crank the volume knob way up, I'd suspect something is wrong with them. I've never heard them, but assuming they're cut from the same cloth as the Aeons, the sound you're describing is nothing like I hear from the Aeons.


----------



## FLTWS (May 29, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Dratz.  The older Russian tubes seem to garner a high level of praise.  I was hoping for a diamond in the rough sounding more akin to a Melz 68HC than to the supplied NOS Russian tube that comes with Lyr 3.  It'll be fun to see how she does.  Who knows -- maybe you got a bum tube!!



One of the nice things about these 6SN7 types of tubes is there are a lot of very good sounding tubes that won't make your wallet cry. And I haven't heard the stock 68HC so I have no point of comparison. You will!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, after 24 hours, the stock NOS Russian tube seems to have opened up a little bit more leading to a less congested sound.  Earlier assessment of other attributes (highs, bass soundstage, air, etc) pretty much remain the same.  If your headphones are a bit too bright for you, this tube could be a nice pairing.  All-in-all, not a bad tube.  Doesn't really excel in any one area and really doesn't suck in any one area.  A good neutral/unoffensive tube representing a good 1st tube experience at a value price.
> 
> Going back to the Ken-Rad ...
> 
> ...



That's a '65. Not bad, but the ribbed plate version ('51 - '55 from what I've seen) is a good step up. Still cheap, but supply seems to be dwindling rather quickly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tested-6N8...173507?hash=item238a3dfc83:g:xmAAAOSwjpRavJ8e


----------



## Ripper2860

OK -- so do you actually own this tube?  If you do, could you characterize its sound in comparison to the Ken-Rad?

(Damn you!!!!!   I'm actually considering getting this!!)


----------



## cebuboy

bcowen said:


> That's a '65. Not bad, but the ribbed plate version ('51 - '55 from what I've seen) is a good step up. Still cheap, but supply seems to be dwindling rather quickly.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tested-6N8...173507?hash=item238a3dfc83:g:xmAAAOSwjpRavJ8e



From my experience and preference; I like the melz ribbed plates then the foton ribbed, next is the foton with ears and lastly the stock tube which I think is a nevz.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> OK -- so do you actually own this tube?  If you do, could you characterize its sound in comparison to the Ken-Rad?
> 
> (Damn you!!!!!   I'm actually considering getting this!!)



Yeah, I have a couple of them.  

The Ken-Rad goes deeper in the bass, throws up a better soundstage, and is overall a bit more refined sounding. The Foton (rib plate) has the best treble I've yet heard in the Lyr 3 -- extended, detailed, yet never fatiguing even at rock concert levels. I keep coming back to this tube, as there's a rhythmic quality that just makes things so involving and fun to listen to. Be aware that it takes 100+ hours to fully develop:  the bass will be MIA and the mids will be pretty bleached out sounding initially. Both get their legs under them as the hours accumulate.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 29, 2018)

Well, Hell!!!    Why don't you just sell me one little ole tube and save me the hassle of buying internationally?

Come on.  You'll never know it's gone.  You can even keep the box so you'll have an even number for stacking purposes. 

Or you can sell me the one Melz, since it's the odd man out.  I'm sure the others pick on it being the outcast and all.  



(Oh, and thanks for the pic.  Now I have something to show the wife when she says I'm obsessed!!)


----------



## bcowen

cebuboy said:


> From my experience and preference; I like the melz ribbed plates then the foton ribbed, next is the foton with ears and lastly the stock tube which I think is a nevz.


Have 4 Melz (all rib plates), but haven't given them due time and attention yet. Got too busy fartin' around with the Fotons.   From what I've read, the best Melz gems are the true 1578's with hole plates. Unfortunately, those are priced in the stratosphere of late, like $200+/pair.


----------



## Ripper2860

*STOP IT!!!!  *


----------



## ProfFalkin

More!  

I like watching his wallet writhe in agony.


----------



## Ripper2860

Life was so much easier with my Magni 3.


----------



## chef8489

Ripper2860 said:


> Life was so much easier with my Magni 3.


But not as fun or as much variety and spice.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm listening to Mahler (Leonard Bernstien) and it is absolutely glorious!!!  Can I really achieve a higher degree of tube splendor w/ Lyr 3 than can be delivered by the Ken-Rads?  I'm starting to think not!  Perhaps instead of chasing the impossible I should sit pat on what I have and just stock up on a few more Ken-Rads for spares.  Mission accomplished??!!  Maybe.

Plus, then I can save and upgrade my headphones!!


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm listening to Mahler (Leonard Bernstien) and it is absolutely glorious!!!  Can I really achieve a higher degree of tube splendor w/ Lyr 3 than can be delivered by the Ken-Rads?  I'm starting to think not!  Perhaps instead of chasing the impossible I should sit pat on what I have and just stock up on a few more Ken-Rads for spares.  Mission accomplished??!!  Maybe.
> 
> Plus, then I can save and upgrade my headphones!!


I've stopped with the lovely Ken-Rad I got after the stock Tung-Sol. I'm pretty settled with headphones too. DAC is excellent, but sufficiently different from the Yggy on my speaker system (currently on its way back from Schiit after A2 transplant) that I don't have an urge to replace it (variety is the spice of life etc). Spending a lot on music, though. I know this is not to everybody's taste, but John Adams's violin concerto performed by Leila Josefowicz with the Saint Louis Symphony conducted by David Robertson (Nonesuch 24/96 digital edition) is a great showcase for the system. If anyone would like to explore recent classical work, this is it: lyrical, accessible, exciting.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> John Adams's violin concerto performed by Leila Josefowicz with the Saint Louis Symphony



Added to my list.  Thanks.

I think I'm just going to spend more time listening to music and less time chasing after tubes online.  I have 1 Russian tube on order and a generous member is sending another my way.  I'll pickup another 1-2 Ken-Rads and throw in the towel.  At least that's my frame of mind tonight...

But tomorrow is another day, possibly filled with wonderful tube possibilities!!


----------



## chef8489

I need to get a Ken-Rad. I am sure with that i would be happy for a while.


----------



## chef8489 (May 30, 2018)

Um that was weird. Quoted a post from another thread and it posted here.


----------



## Freeflap

bcowen said:


> The Ether's are a bit less sensitive than the m1060's (92dB vs 96dB), but they have an easier impedance load at 32 ohms vs 50.  If the specs are true for both, I would expect the Ethers to play at the same level (and probably louder) at a given volume setting. If you're having to crank the volume knob way up, I'd suspect something is wrong with them. I've never heard them, but assuming they're cut from the same cloth as the Aeons, the sound you're describing is nothing like I hear from the Aeons.



Interesting. I recall however, that for every 3db of volume increase, requires a doubling of power output. I agree that the resistance load should balance that out but maybe that is wrong


----------



## Freeflap

i know this is still slightly off topic, but wanted to follow up. i can continue on the ether forum page as well if this shouldn't be here.

I looked up the measurements on inner fidelity. 
The M1060:
impedance at 1khz: 50 ohms
VOLTS needed to reach 90db SPL: .082 Vrms
Power needed to reach 90db SPL: .13 mW

the Ether flow:
impedance at 1khz: 24 ohm
VOLTS needed to reach 90db SPL: .230 Vrms
Power needed to reach 90db SPL: 2.25 mW

So looking at this data, it is clear, that the ether flow are much more power hungry than my m1060. The voltage needed is almost triple needed compared to the m1060
the power required is 17x greater. If you consider that Power = volts x current, there is a tripling of the voltage but a 17x on the power. this indicates about a 5x increase in current. 

So, i'm not too crazy in saying i have to crank up the output on my jds element to get to the same volume as my m1060. 

further, it would lessen the likelihood that there is something wrong with my etherflow. They are simply a power hungry pair of headphones, and it is possible that my element isn't generating enough current to make them sing.


----------



## Ripper2860

I agree.  The fact that it likely needed more power was my initial thought, but not being an Ether flow owner, I hesitated to respond.  The Ether flows are HIGHLY regarded and the sound you describe does not sound like a defective planar.  I think the Lyr 3 will pair quite nicely with the Ether flows giving them all the power they need.


----------



## Freeflap

Ripper2860 said:


> I agree.  The fact that it likely needed more power was my initial thought, but not being an Ether flow owner, I hesitated to respond.  The Ether flows are HIGHLY regarded and the sound you describe does not sound like a defective planar.  I think the Lyr 3 will pair quite nicely with the Ether flows giving them all the power they need.


agree. 
in the meantime, i did buy a used pair of Audeze LCD-2 to compare. I was going to try a bunch and keep the one I like and sell off the rest. Looking at the inner fidelity data on the LCD-2

measurements:
impedance at 1khz: 47
power: .24mW
VOLT: .106 Vrms

So, based on numbers alone, I am going to guess the LCD-2 will sound great on my element. It hasn't arrived, but i will follow up when it does. My choice now is to consider getting the LYR3 or keeping the element and selling the ether flow to someone who has the right amp for the job....
decisions!!!

despite this being slightly off topic, there is no doubt a consideration of matching the headphones to the amp and vise versa. based on what i'm reading i will NOT be rolling tubes!!! If i buy the Lyr 3, I'm going to stick with the Tung Sol and leave it at that. too easy to go crazy and spend big $$$$ on tubes. That's dangerous.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

Freeflap said:


> i will NOT be rolling tubes!!! If i buy the Lyr 3, I'm going to stick with the Tung Sol and leave it at that. too easy to go crazy and spend big $$$$ on tubes. That's dangerous.



Famous last words ...

(That is almost EXACTLY what I told myself when I bought mine!)  

Seriously -- The Tung-Sol will do you just fine, if self-discipline is an attribute you possess.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Famous last words ...
> 
> (That is almost EXACTLY what I told myself when I bought mine!)


Buying a Lyr 3 and not trying a few different tubes would be a shame. Tube rolling, really fine tunes this amp, and I still get blown away, every time a roll back and forth between my 2 favorite tubes.  The KenRad and RCA grey glass, really give me 2 different sound signatures and it is like having 2 different amps.  I rolled the RCA back in last night, and it took me a minute or two to adjust, from the kenRad, but once my ears adjusted I was reminded why this is one of my favorites.  The warmth and liquid smooth midrange of the RCA is fantastic, for extended listening sessions.


----------



## Freeflap (May 30, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Famous last words ...
> 
> (That is almost EXACTLY what I told myself when I bought mine!)
> 
> Seriously -- The Tung-Sol will do you just fine, if self-discipline is an attribute you possess.



the only solution is to buy the Lyr 3, use the tung-sol and then delete my head-fi account and block this website ip with my home router. Worst addiction ever.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

There are worse addictions.  Not many, but there are worse.  (At least that's what I keep telling myself.)

I may open a thread here at Head-Fi called 'Tube Rollers Anonymous --  A 12 step program for Tube Addicts'.  



On 2nd thought, that would be like hosting AA in a bar.  Not a good idea.


----------



## quimbo

Picked up a Lyr3 just over 2 months ago, my first piece of equipment with tubes.  I have since bought 15 tubes (11 unique ones) and thought I was done.  However, today I picked up a copy of Tube Lore - A Reference for Users & Collectors - First Edition by Ludwell Sibley.  Will probably end up buying more tubes as a result.    

Favorite tube so far is a Hitachi 6SN7GTB 6SN7 ECC33 followed by Sylvania Mil-Spec VT-231 6SN7GT ECC33 Bad Boy and then a Ken-Rad VT-231 6SN7GT.  Jury is still out on the 6N8S Foton Ribber Anode which were mentioned in one of the Lyr tube threads.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

quimbo said:


> Hitachi 6SN7GTB 6SN7 ECC33 followed by Sylvania Mil-Spec VT-231 6SN7GT ECC33 Bad Boy



Hmmmm.  How would you characterize the sound of each as compared to the KR?


(I am so disappointed in myself ...)


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.  How would you characterize the sound of each as compared to the KR?



I don't spend a lot of time analyzing the differences, I just know what sounds good to me with the different types of music i listen to.  The Hitachi is the newest so that could be why its at the top of the pile.   The bass on the Hitachi is not a 'syrupy' as the KR and to my ears that is better for me.

I have been switching between Sennheiser HD250 Linear and Sennheiser HD540 Ref I at the same time.  Slight nuances between both of those as well.

Lyr3 is my home rig and with warm nights on the horizon the number of hours listening with the Lyr3 will be reduced significantly.  Prefer to spend evenings between May and October outside with cigars, a book and music playing thru one of my portable systems.

I suppose I could pick one up for my work setup (Wyrd > Modi 2 Uber > Loki > Magni 3)


----------



## Ripper2860

Fair enough.  Going with what one prefers and foregoing the critical analysis is definitely the more enjoyable way to go.  

BTW -- Is the Hitachi a bottom D-getter version?


----------



## Mike-WI

quimbo said:


> Picked up a Lyr3 just over 2 months ago, my first piece of equipment with tubes.  I have since bought 15 tubes (11 unique ones) and thought I was done.  However, today I picked up a copy of Tube Lore - A Reference for Users & Collectors - First Edition by Ludwell Sibley.  Will probably end up buying more tubes as a result.
> 
> Favorite tube so far is a Hitachi 6SN7GTB 6SN7 ECC33 followed by Sylvania Mil-Spec VT-231 6SN7GT ECC33 Bad Boy and then a Ken-Rad VT-231 6SN7GT.  Jury is still out on the 6N8S Foton Ribber Anode which were mentioned in one of the Lyr tube threads.


https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Lore-Re...965468305/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Amazon: 2 Used from $6,871.00

Any other places to purchase?


Mike


----------



## quimbo

Mike-WI said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Lore-Re...965468305/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> Amazon: 2 Used from $6,871.00
> 
> Any other places to purchase?
> ...



I had set an alert on ebay and one showed up this weekend for 100 + 3.68 shipping.    Been looking for 6 weeks, previous low price I found was 200.


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> Fair enough.  Going with what one prefers and foregoing the critical analysis is definitely the more enjoyable way to go.
> 
> BTW -- Is the Hitachi a bottom D-getter version?



Yes.  There is a pair currently at Audiogon

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...tb-6sn7-ecc33-tubes-matched-pair-tested-tubes

From the description:

These tubes have black ladder plates and D getters in the tube bases. They were made in the 1960's

The same seller has this site - http://arizonatubesupply.com and is on ebay as https://www.ebay.com/usr/n7rk


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks!!


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> Fair enough.  Going with what one prefers and foregoing the critical analysis is definitely the more enjoyable way to go.
> ...



Its a lot easier and that's for sure!


----------



## bcowen

Freeflap said:


> i know this is still slightly off topic, but wanted to follow up. i can continue on the ether forum page as well if this shouldn't be here.
> 
> I looked up the measurements on inner fidelity.
> The M1060:
> ...



Your analysis is far more thorough than my assumption. I do prefer the high gain setting for my Aeons (with most tubes), but I don't think it's because they need the power. Then again....hmmmmm.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> There are worse addictions.  Not many, but there are worse.  (At least that's what I keep telling myself.)
> 
> I may open a thread here at Head-Fi called 'Tube Rollers Anonymous --  A 12 step program for Tube Addicts'.
> 
> ...



I'll volunteer to be moderator of the 'High Risk of Relapse' subforum. I'm qualified.


----------



## Ripper2860

Sounds good!!

OK,  so who wants to moderate the 'How to Find a Good Divorce Attorney' sub-forum??


----------



## FLTWS

bcowen said:


> Your analysis is far more thorough than my assumption. I do prefer the high gain setting for my Aeons (with most tubes), but I don't think it's because they need the power. Then again....hmmmmm.



I prefer the high gain with my Abyss. I end up with the volume set to between 10 and 12 o'clock to deliver a comfortable and correct level for all recordings, so far.


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> Sounds good!!
> 
> OK,  so who wants to moderate the 'How to Find a Good Divorce Attorney' sub-forum??


Not needed here.  Separate accounts, we each get to pursue our own addictive hobbies.  Yesterday I received 10 more tube boxes from antique electronic supply - https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/tube-box-fits-6v6gt-6sn7gt-12sk7 , we were together when i picked them up at the PO Box so she asked what are those.  After 5 minutes of explaining tubes, how many I have gotten etc, all she could do is chuckle. Life is good


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

That brings me to my next sub-forum recommendations ...

_'Tips for Hiding your Tube addiction from your Spouse, Family, and Friends'_

_'Before or After the Divorce:  How to find a Totally Tubular Spouse that doesn't care about your Tube addiction."
_
And for the family dealing with a member's Tube Addiction ...

_'It could be worse:  How to trivialize the condition and be an awesome Tube enabler!'_

Any takers??  If not., I'll just put a pin in it and come back to this later.


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> That brings me to my next sub-forum recommendations ...
> 
> _'Tips for Hiding your Tube addiction from your Spouse, Family, and Friends'_
> 
> ...



The space needed for tubes will never equal what CDs took up.  Being a collector of live music, I had 4 3 drawer Can-Am drawers - http://www.cdcabinet.com/pop-mc3d20.htm - full of CDs.  Most of my collection was live concerts, so each normal size CD case held 2 or 3 discs.  Single shows were stored in thin disks.  Can-Am never took into account that people would store more than a commercial case with single disc, 270 per single drawer.  I probably had 650-700 discs in each drawer. The drawers actually sagged.   Everything has been converted to flac on hard drives and the cabinets are used for storing stuff in the garage.  A few 100-1000 tubes will take up no room at all.


----------



## Ripper2860

Oh-oh. Sounds like you are getting ready to corner the market on tubes and drive prices up for the poor souls like me.  Gotta get my buying in quick!!!


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> Oh-oh. Sounds like you are getting ready to corner the market on tubes and drive prices up for the poor souls like me.  Gotta get my buying in quick!!!


Actually pretty much done for awhile, (he typed hopefully)


----------



## Freeflap

So after looking up the specs, i decided to try the element in high gain. I'm not sure what the technical differences are, but it does sound more lively. richer. less laid back compared to low gain. 
in low gain, i can max out the volume knob and it's loud but not close to painful
in high gain, its too loud at 1/2 max. 
it has better treble extension as well compared to maxed out low gain. 
not sure if this is real, or just "all in me head..."

so, going back to the lyr3. i am leaning to the tung-sol option and considering a DAC built in. don't like the clutter and my space is limited to have two boxes
so i do multibit or balanced dac 4490?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2018)

I say go for Mutlibit for a richer and more layered sound.  But...

You really need to have powered USB going to the MB DAC card at all times.  Mulitbit DACs really need to be at stable operating temp in order to sound their best and since the DAC is USB powered (no external power), you'll need to leave your computer on at all times or invest in a Schiit Wyrd or powered hub to keep the DAC powered on when the Lyr3 is off.  (Or wait about 30 minutes for it to get a stable op temp.   Oh, and you don't want to leave a tube amp on 24x7, due to impact on tube life.) 

The 4490 does not really need to remain powered on at all times for best sound, but while it's a good DAC, it is not a Multibit DAC.  (note:  Since Lyr 3 is not a balanced amp, the 4490 will not run in balanced mode.)


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> You really need to have powered USB going to the MB DAC card at all times. Mulitbit DACs really need to be at stable operating temp in order to sound their best and since the DAC is USB powered (no external power), you'll need to leave your computer on at all times or invest in a Schiit Wyrd or powered hub to keep the DAC powered on when the Lyr3 is off.


Is that right? My understanding from other stuff I read is that USB powers the USB receiver only, the main DAC components, including the crucial DAC multibit chips run on mains power. OTOH, the tube side of the Lyr 3 also needs a bit of time to reach optimal sound performance, so maybe it doesn't matter so much. I turn my Lyr 3 on when I get home from work in the evening, or when I get up on weekends that I am home, but I only listen after dinner (or breakfast on weekends). Otherwise, I'm taking a bottom-of-the-barrel performance (not just figuratively) for the first 30 minutes or so. The R2R DAC that feeds it is left always on.


----------



## Ripper2860

OK, I'm going to back off on my statement as I am repeating what others have said in a Schiit thread.  However, as far as I know, neither Jason nor Mike has dispelled that rumor in the announcement thread.  I'll fire off an e-mail to Schiit tomorrow and see what they have to say about it.  I have a separate Modi Mutibit DAC so it's a non-issue for me, but I'd like to get the 'correct' answer out there where it's easier to find.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> OK, I'm going to back off on my statement as I am repeating what others have said in a Schiit thread.  However, as far as I know, neither Jason nor Mike has dispelled that rumor in the announcement thread.  I'll fire off an e-mail to Schiit tomorrow and see what they have to say about it.  I have a separate Modi Mutibit DAC so it's a non-issue for me, but I'd like to get the 'correct' answer out there where it's easier to find.


Sorry, I wish it were easier to search these forums. I distinctly remember reading somewhere what I wrote above, and technically I don't know how it could be otherwise given the complexity of the multibit circuitry. But it's late and my memory could be playing tricks...


----------



## Ripper2860

Sent an e-mail to Info@schiit.com asking about this.  Hopefully, we'll get the straight poop on whether it's amp powered and still powered when Lyr 3 is switched off.


----------



## chef8489 (May 31, 2018)

Schiit told me several times that "
The only DAC we recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil. The DAC (The Analog Devices AD5547) in the Bifrost and Lyr 3 are a different Multibit DAC than the one in the Yggdrasil ( Analog Devices AD5791BRUZ x 4 [2 per channel, hardware balanced configuration] ) and does not need to be left on 24/7."

Also stated that the seperate multibit dacs would not hurt to be left on.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

chef8489 said:


> Schiit told me several times that "
> The only DAC we recommend leaving on 24/7 is the Yggdrasil. The DAC (The Analog Devices AD5547) in the Bifrost and Lyr 3 are a different Multibit DAC than the one in the Yggdrasil ( Analog Devices AD5791BRUZ x 4 [2 per channel, hardware balanced configuration] ) and does not need to be left on 24/7."
> 
> Also stated that the seperat multibit dacs woukd not hurt to be left on.



This is what I remember hearing, and was my take away as well. My Bifrost stays on all the time.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well there we have it.  

Thanks!


----------



## Motocrossman24

I emailed schiit about this towards the start of the thread...the internal dac modules are not powered when the amp is powered off. I personally don’t see a huge difference from a cold start to a running 24hrs multibit module, there is a difference. But it’s not night and day like some may lead you to believe. If you really enjoy  or are concearned about keeping the dac warmed up, just switch the amp on in the morning and off b4 bed. I normally switch it on when I get home from work, then shower, eat dinner, relax a bit and listen afterwards and it’s plenty warmed by that point. On weekends I switch it on when I wake up and turn it off when I go to bed


----------



## Freeflap

I see that there is a 4493 DAC now. Only monoprice's upcoming thx dac/amp seem to have it. I am leaning to the multibit, but prefer not to have to leave it on 24/7. plus i question whether or not i would actually notice a difference. 
The further up the food chain, the less i can perceive. Whereas speakers and headphones are the easiest to tell apart. source material / amps become harder to distinguish for me. 

as an aside, i noticed that my ether flow sound significantly better in high gain mode on my jds element. so the extra power seems like a good option re: the lyr3.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 1, 2018)

Freeflap said:


> I am leaning to the multibit, but prefer not to have to leave it on 24/7.



It seems that I have perpetuated an erroneous bit of Head-fi MB lore...

I have since learned that several folks have reached out to Schiit and confirmed that the only DAC that needs to be on 7x24 is the relatively uber expensive Yggy which uses a different chip and topology.  The remaining Multibit DAC line and DAC option modules do NOT need to remain on in order to perform optimally.

So go ahead and buy the MB option card for Lyr 3 w/o fear of racking up your power bill, burning through tubes, or it sounding blah!!

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> It seems that I have perpetuated an erroneous bit of Head-fi MB lore...
> 
> I have since learned that several folks have reached out to Schiit and confirmed that the only DAC that needs to be on 7x24 is the relatively uber expensive Yggy which uses a different chip and topology.  The remaining Multibit DAC line and DAC option modules do NOT need to remain on in order to perform optimally.
> 
> ...


One other option is to stick a cheap Russian tube in it and leave it on 24/7. Replace every 6 months and still be money in the bank 3 years later.  Not sure who would be stupid enough to do that, but there's always someone out there.


----------



## jrflanne

ProfFalkin said:


> Has anyone ever tried powder coating a Schiit chassis?  It might be cool to see a HotRod Red Bimby / Lyr 3 stack.
> 
> Or that deep dark British Racing Green.  The old Dodge Challenger Plum Crazy Purple perhaps?


Just get the cover anodized.


----------



## EagleWings

Hi guys, I recently sold my Lyr 3 (with TS 6SN7) to @jamesofla80 . Unfortunately, James has been experiencing a buzz when touching the volume knob. The buzz is faint on Low Gain and can be noticed upon listening closely. On High Gain, the buzz becomes clearly audible when going past 12 o' clock on the volume pot. I was always on Low Gain and so never came across the buzz because, either I did not have it or because I didn't closely listen for it. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Could it be a ground loop or a noisy socket or a microphonic tube?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 2, 2018)

Nothing like that here.  Strange, indeed.  Perhaps a defective unit?


----------



## rgmffn

It's definitely a ground issue of some type. Check the outlet for proper grounding. Try different outlet. Experiment. It's really hard to diagnose not knowing the setup.


----------



## earnmyturns

EagleWings said:


> Hi guys, I recently sold my Lyr 3 (with TS 6SN7) to @jamesofla80 . Unfortunately, James has been experiencing a buzz when touching the volume knob. The buzz is faint on Low Gain and can be noticed upon listening closely. On High Gain, the buzz becomes clearly audible when going past 12 o' clock on the volume pot. I was always on Low Gain and so never came across the buzz because, either I did not have it or because I didn't closely listen for it. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Could it be a ground loop or a noisy socket or a microphonic tube?


No buzz in my setup. However, there are faint microphonics when grasping the knob, likely from the mechanical vibrations reaching the tube. I did have a power hum in high gain when the RCAs from the DAC were laying close and across the power cable, but that's gone now that I used a shielded power cable I had around and lifted the RCA cables 3 in above the power cable. But what @jamesofla80 hears seems more like a grounding issue. In my setup (see sig below), streamer, DDC, DAC, and Lyr 3 are all powered by a shared Isobar Tripp-Lite 6 outlet surge protector, so they are all grounded together.


----------



## ProfFalkin

EagleWings said:


> Hi guys, I recently sold my Lyr 3 (with TS 6SN7) to @jamesofla80 . Unfortunately, James has been experiencing a buzz when touching the volume knob. The buzz is faint on Low Gain and can be noticed upon listening closely. On High Gain, the buzz becomes clearly audible when going past 12 o' clock on the volume pot. I was always on Low Gain and so never came across the buzz because, either I did not have it or because I didn't closely listen for it. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Could it be a ground loop or a noisy socket or a microphonic tube?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Check input as well.  If RCA, get the cable away from other power or signal cables. Try a different RCA cable if possible.

 Same if using usb and an internal card.


----------



## jamesofla80

thanks everyone for your suggestions. Here are a few items I have tested so far:

1. swapped standard power cord with shunyata venom and made sure all rca cables are distanced from power, pc, etc. Noticed a slight less buzz with the shunyata but definitely present. 
2. tried moving amp to a separate outlet that i know is on a separate circuit breaker. buzz still persists
3. swapped to various other power strips. made no difference. 

Last option I will do is take it to my office next week and test it there. My house was built in the 50's and the wiring is mostly likely a culprit is my thinking. figuring a tube amp is revealing the faults in my old wiring more so than a solid state. 

On good news the noise is only present when i touch the unit, otherwise it sounds wonderful and works with no other issues outside of touching it, which is not very audible when music is playing. 

If by chance it does come out to be the wiring in my house, any suggestions for getting around the issue without rewiring my house? Would an APC UPS circumvent the wiring and since it will be coming from a battery? 

Thanks @EagleWings for posting to the group.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2018)

jamesofla80 said:


> Would an APC UPS circumvent the wiring and since it will be coming from a battery?



An low-end consumer grade APC UPS will likely not help as it is always on house power unless voltage falls below or above a certain limit.  Most UPS'es are SWITCHING, which means they switch from AC to battery only during a power outage or a SAG/SURGE.  There is usually some power conditioning provided, but it is pretty basic.  I would suggest looking at an actual Isolation Power Transformer like the following Tripp Lite...

https://amazon.com/dp/B00006HPFH/ref=asc_df_B00006HPFH5497807/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B00006HPFH&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4364323569573751099&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026794&hvtargid=pla-311461649184&sa-no-redirect=1

Or you can look for an non-switching ONLINE UPS.  Those do run on battery full-time and only connect to AC to charge the battery.  They are more difficult to find and more expensive.  You'd likely be better served with the Tripp Llte IPT.

I hope you get it sorted out.  Lyr 3 is a wonderful amp!!


----------



## Freeflap

jamesofla80 said:


> thanks everyone for your suggestions. Here are a few items I have tested so far:
> 
> 1. swapped standard power cord with shunyata venom and made sure all rca cables are distanced from power, pc, etc. Noticed a slight less buzz with the shunyata but definitely present.
> 2. tried moving amp to a separate outlet that i know is on a separate circuit breaker. buzz still persists
> ...



This sounds like a classic ground loop issue. Especially since it is present when you touch it. You are a electron sink to some extent and that ground loop has a way to escape via YOU. 

i would look outside and make sure the cable modem / internet line coming into the house block is grounded before coming into the house. Do you hear a similar noise with your house subwoofer? 
I had this issue and when i grounded the block, the noise disappeared. hope that works for you.


----------



## EagleWings

Really appreciate all the help and the input guys.

@jamesofla80 , you are welcome bud. I hope you are able to find a viable solution. Keep us posted.


----------



## jamesofla80

@Freeflap that's a good idea, I did have an open ground issue in the past and had a electrician come out. They grounded all the outlets in the house. Now when i plug in a receptacle tester it shows as correct wiring. Do you believe with the receptacle tester showing correct wiring there might still be a grounding issue?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2018)

Sometimes a ground-loop issue can be identified/eliminated by use of a 'cheater plug'.  A cheater plug is a 3-prong female to 2-prong male power plug adapter.  Plug the Lyr 3 outlet end of the 3-prong cord into the cheater plug and then plug the cheater into the AC outlet or power strip. If there is still hum, try flipping the cheater plug 180 degrees and plug back into the outlet or powerstrip. If the hum goes away using the cheater in either orientation, it's a ground loop issue.

BTW - If the cheater plug only plugs in one direction (polarized), you may need to clip the little protrusions on the fatter blade to allow it to be oriented either direction.)  If it has a grounding lug, just clip it off or leave it disconnected.  

Eliminating or lifting ground may help identify if the root cause is a ground loop and help focus your efforts.

NOTE:  I'm not advocating leaving it ungrounded, although some folks do continue to use cheater plugs long-term.  I'm suggesting this as a troubleshooting tool to then allow you to identify and address the root cause.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2018)

And there's also this if you do find it is a ground loop hum by using the cheater plug test and cannot identify the source or correct the issue...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HumX--ebtech-hum-by-ground-loop-hum-exterminator?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=3274464280&rkg_id=0&product_id=HumX&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping - Core - Live Sound & Lighting&adgroup=Live Sound & Lighting - Live Sound Accessories&placement=google&adpos=1o5&creative=250341283160&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjwo87YBRBgEiwAI1LkqWrNbuNPAH5IH3SvykgtVjC-zYi4FKtsri-NTiQ91ctlcT5gsRsOPRoC2vAQAvD_BwE


----------



## Freeflap

Best to make sure your incoming lines to the house are all grounded. The cheater plug will help diagnose this as the culprit but like others have said, not a good idea. Grounds are there for safety. Best to not try and bypass it. 
i don't think it's coming from your power outlets. Yes, those are all grounded. Its the telephone / cable tv / internet coming into the house that is separate from you power grid. if it's not properly grounded, can cause a 60hz hum across all your audio devices. I would start outside and look for the cable lines coming in. If the metal block isn't grounded, connect it to a ground outside the house.


----------



## Freeflap

Ripper2860 said:


> And there's also this if you do find it is a ground loop hum by using the cheater plug test and cannot identify the source or correct the issue...
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HumX--ebtech-hum-by-ground-loop-hum-exterminator?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=3274464280&rkg_id=0&product_id=HumX&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping - Core - Live Sound & Lighting&adgroup=Live Sound & Lighting - Live Sound Accessories&placement=google&adpos=1o5&creative=250341283160&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjwo87YBRBgEiwAI1LkqWrNbuNPAH5IH3SvykgtVjC-zYi4FKtsri-NTiQ91ctlcT5gsRsOPRoC2vAQAvD_BwE



i've tried devices like this with little success. again, ymmv. but it is best to start outside and make sure all incoming lines are grounded.


----------



## Freeflap

I've had fios and Comcast come into the house. As you can see it's a mess of wires  But each incoming coax has a metal block with a ground wire screw. Last time I switched internet they forgot to secure the ground wire to the block. Caused terrible ground loop from my home theater, TV, everything. Simply connecting the block solved every thing .


----------



## Freeflap




----------



## earnmyturns

Freeflap said:


> Its the telephone / cable tv / internet coming into the house that is separate from you power grid. if it's not properly grounded, can cause a 60hz hum across all your audio devices.


My home network is isolated from the Comcast router with one of these. I don't know if it would help in your case, though, I put it in for surge protection.


----------



## riffrafff

I had a small Chinese tube hybrid amp that would hum when touched.  I ran a separate ground from the NEMA ground in the outlet box to the amp's chassis and that eliminated it.  Note that this was an amp that was powered by a wall-wart, so not necessarily the same scenario as yours.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Jun 3, 2018)

jamesofla80 said:


> On good news the noise is only present when i touch the unit



I LOL'd.

Quit touching it!

... You'll go blind or get hairy palms or something.    ick.


On another note, not all power strips / surge protectors are built equally.   I have recommended this product repeatedly as it is inexpensive, has filters and the eco/master plug setup is quite nice.   I keep my DAC on one of the "always on" plugs, and the computer on the "master" plug.   Everything else goes into the "eco" plugs, which is to say, when I turn on my computer, my speakers, headamp, preamp, desk lamp, and monitor all turn on.   It also filters out this hum that I get plugging directly into the wall.


----------



## chef8489

Ripper2860 said:


> An APC UPS will likely not help as it is always on house power unless voltage falls below or above a certain limit.  Most UPS'es are SWITCHING, which means they switch from AC to battery only during a power outage or a SAG/SURGE.  There is usually some power conditioning provided, but it is pretty basic.  I would suggest looking at an actual Isolation Power Transformer like the following Tripp Lite...
> 
> https://amazon.com/dp/B00006HPFH/ref=asc_df_B00006HPFH5497807/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B00006HPFH&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4364323569573751099&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026794&hvtargid=pla-311461649184&sa-no-redirect=1
> 
> ...


Most decent ups have avr and conditioners built in. The cyberpower and the higher end apc especially the sinewave ones.


----------



## riffrafff

+1 on the Tripp-Lites.  I use their ISOBAR units almost exclusively.


----------



## Zachik

@jamesofla80 - let me add one obvious thing that I am sure you tried, but did not remember reading about it in others' suggestions:
Try remove the tube and place it back. Making sure it sits properly... Also, if you have other tubes - try them out to eliminate tube issue.
I know it is a long shot, especially since you say it works great when not touching it, but still worth trying


----------



## jamesofla80 (Jun 4, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Sometimes a ground-loop issue can be identified/eliminated by use of a 'cheater plug'.  A cheater plug is a 3-prong female to 2-prong male power plug adapter.  Plug the Lyr 3 outlet end of the 3-prong cord into the cheater plug and then plug the cheater into the AC outlet or power strip. If there is still hum, try flipping the cheater plug 180 degrees and plug back into the outlet or powerstrip. If the hum goes away using the cheater in either orientation, it's a ground loop issue.
> 
> BTW - If the cheater plug only plugs in one direction (polarized), you may need to clip the little protrusions on the fatter blade to allow it to be oriented either direction.)  If it has a grounding lug, just clip it off or leave it disconnected.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip. I tested that out today and the noise was still present. Which good news means its not a ground loop issue YAY!!! i don't have to rewire my house or buy an isolation transformer. 
Bad news is that something is up with the amp, hoping its as simple as a tube issue.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm sorry/happy to hear that.  You may also want to e-mail Schiit support (info@schiit.com) to see if they have any ideas.  I sure do hope you get it sorted out so you can start fully enjoying your Lyr 3.

BTW -- if you need to send it back to Schiit to have it checked out, you may need to work with the original owner and have them do that for you.  It is my understanding that the Schiit warranty is not transferrable and only valid for the original owner. **

**Seems one would stand by their MFG warranty no matter if you're the original owner or not, as long as the product is 1) not reported as stolen, and 2) not subjected to abuse -- but hey, Schiit wouldn't be the only company to limit their warranty to original owner only.


----------



## Freeflap

jamesofla80 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I tested that out today and the noise was still present. Which good news means its not a ground loop issue YAY!!! i don't have to rewire my house or buy an isolation transformer.
> Bad news is that something is up with the amp, hoping its as simple as a tube issue.



remember that the ground loop affects all electronics connected. if you tried the cheater plug on the amp, but not on the rest of the electronics connected to it, you might still have a ground loop. 

again, i would check the incoming cable coax line to make sure it's properly grounded. Even if you don't subscribe to cable tv, it might still be attached to your house. 

best to you


----------



## jamesofla80

Freeflap said:


> remember that the ground loop affects all electronics connected. if you tried the cheater plug on the amp, but not on the rest of the electronics connected to it, you might still have a ground loop.
> 
> again, i would check the incoming cable coax line to make sure it's properly grounded. Even if you don't subscribe to cable tv, it might still be attached to your house.
> 
> best to you


I made sure to unplug all inputs when testing. Just power and headphones no other sources. Last test today will be taking it into the office and seeing how it performs at another location.


----------



## Freeflap

jamesofla80 said:


> I made sure to unplug all inputs when testing. Just power and headphones no other sources. Last test today will be taking it into the office and seeing how it performs at another location.


sounds good. hope you get this fixed.


----------



## Freeflap

UPDATE:
i bought a sliver plated 8 strand braided cable off of ebay. what a difference. The "dark" muted sound i was getting is gone. The Ether flow are lively open and bright with greater resolution in the treble range. am still wondering about the lyr3 upgrade now. would it be that much better?


----------



## Wes S

Freeflap - If you got better results from a cable, just wait an see what an amp can do.  I am using Alpha Primes, with my Lyr 3 on high gain with KenRad tube, and they are sounding glorious.  I can only imagine that all of MrSpeakers headphones sound great on the Lyr 3, no matter what cable you are using.


----------



## betula

Is anyone using the Lyr3/multibit with a Focal Clear?


----------



## JamesCanada

betula said:


> Is anyone using the Lyr3/multibit with a Focal Clear?


I like where this is going....


----------



## betula

JamesCanada said:


> I like where this is going....


Enlighten us please.


----------



## Wes S

betula said:


> Enlighten us please.


Doesn't seem to be going anywhere. . .


----------



## JamesCanada

betula said:


> Enlighten us please.



I am intrigued to have those comments, since the lyr 3 is at the top of my list of wanted and the clears are up there also.


----------



## 486930

So here's a newbie question: is it possible to connect the Lyr 3 to a pair easy to drive passive speakers? I have a pair of Omega Monitors and am looking for a nice little tube amp with phono to drive them. The fact that the Lyr 3 can also slide in as new headphone amp is a huge plus....


----------



## Freeflap

Wes S said:


> Freeflap - If you got better results from a cable, just wait an see what an amp can do.  I am using Alpha Primes, with my Lyr 3 on high gain with KenRad tube, and they are sounding glorious.  I can only imagine that all of MrSpeakers headphones sound great on the Lyr 3, no matter what cable you are using.



Another update: i found a lightly used Lyr3 on ebay.. and bought it. It arrived Saturday. it has the multibit USB card installed and it came with the TungSol and the LISST. So far, i have not tried the LISST yet, but am enjoying the amp very much. 

Initially, I was not impressed with the sound vs my jds element. it was very similar. however, after 24-48 hours of burn, it has opened up greatly. the sound is deep rich and smooth. The ether flow no longer sound dark. they have opened up and very musical. no etching in the treble, but very clear and detailed. All three of my headphones sound better with this amp: monoprice m1060, ether flow, and LCD2. 

Need to spend some more time listening but so far am happy and suprised that it has made such a noticeable difference.


----------



## henryw31

How would the Lyr 3 compare with something like the Audio GD R2R-11? I had the chance to test the Lyr 3 with my HD800S and I love it. However, I found the Vali 2 / Mimby combo to provide 90% of the sound IMHO.


----------



## Rhamnetin

henryw31 said:


> How would the Lyr 3 compare with something like the Audio GD R2R-11? I had the chance to test the Lyr 3 with my HD800S and I love it. However, I found the Vali 2 / Mimby combo to provide 90% of the sound IMHO.



You might want to also check the Jotunheim thread even though it's not exactly a Lyr 3. The reason I say that is because I see lots of people with that and the Audio-GD R2R-11.


----------



## henryw31

Rhamnetin said:


> You might want to also check the Jotunheim thread even though it's not exactly a Lyr 3. The reason I say that is because I see lots of people with that and the Audio-GD R2R-11.



I've had the pleasure of testing the entire Schiit line up. I found the Jotunheim too bright for the HD800S and or me. Initially it was the amp/dac I wanted.


----------



## FLTWS

henryw31 said:


> I've had the pleasure of testing the entire Schiit line up. I found the Jotunheim too bright for the HD800S and or me. Initially it was the amp/dac I wanted.



Sometimes this hobby is about matching one components zigs with a complimentary components zags for a satisfying end result.


----------



## FLTWS

For those who use the Abyss 1266 Phi with LYR3, as I have been doing lately, I want to note that driving it in the high gain position is required for me. I played HP roulette today with my Phi, HD800, and Utopia on the LYR3. Both the HD800 and Utopia sound fine and full bodied with the low gain setting. The Phi sounds washed out, body-less, especially with string instruments, regardless of volume setting. High gain, even with a lower volume setting, and the Phi sounds just fine.

Not sure what the reason is but... Anyone else run into this using the Phi?


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 12, 2018)

FLTWS said:


> For those who use the Abyss 1266 Phi with LYR3, as I have been doing lately, I want to note that driving it in the high gain position is required for me. I played HP roulette today with my Phi, HD800, and Utopia on the LYR3. Both the HD800 and Utopia sound fine and full bodied with the low gain setting. The Phi sounds washed out, body-less, especially with string instruments, regardless of volume setting. High gain, even with a lower volume setting, and the Phi sounds just fine.
> 
> Not sure what the reason is but... Anyone else run into this using the Phi?



Not surprised, even the far more sensitive HiFiMan HE-560 requires high gain to sound its best. The Abyss Phi is a very power hungry headphone, not to mention the Lyr 3's high gain setting is lower than, for example, the medium gain setting on the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 (in other words it's not that high, only 7.5x). Low gain on the Lyr 3 is for really, really sensitive headphones and IEMs.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> For those who use the Abyss 1266 Phi with LYR3, as I have been doing lately, I want to note that driving it in the high gain position is required for me. I played HP roulette today with my Phi, HD800, and Utopia on the LYR3. Both the HD800 and Utopia sound fine and full bodied with the low gain setting. The Phi sounds washed out, body-less, especially with string instruments, regardless of volume setting. High gain, even with a lower volume setting, and the Phi sounds just fine.
> 
> Not sure what the reason is but... Anyone else run into this using the Phi?



Not the Phi, but the orgional 1266, with great results. Plenty of power, and sounds incredible with the Sylvania BB.


----------



## henryw31

Anyone have any experience with the Lyr 3 and Wa7 Second Gen?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

so i picked up a lyr 3 today and ill await its arrival. sucks it was silver but oh well. with my luck the black ones will pop up in like a week or so lol.


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats!! You'll love it so much that you'll soon forget that it's silver.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> Congrats!! You'll love it so much that you'll soon forget that it's silver.


I never understood the need for black Schiit. 

(I'm pretty sure that's a sign of a serious medical condition.  If you have black shiit, please contact your doctor.)


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

lol now ill have to sell the black jot and get myself a new silver one or in the end it will drive me crazy or just mod the lyr to black hmmmm decisions hahaha


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

ProfFalkin said:


> I never understood the need for black Schiit.
> 
> (I'm pretty sure that's a sign of a serious medical condition.  If you have black shiit, please contact your doctor.)


my big reason is because everything else i have is black and being a bit ocd i like stuff to match. funny thing is i just got the black jot for my father in law and he ended up taking my silver one because i liked the black better. doh. ill see if he wants to trade back now


----------



## riffrafff

I'm waiting for the Lyr 4, the _newer_ Coherence™ and Continuity™.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 13, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> I'm waiting for the Lyr 4, the _newer_ Coherence™ and Continuity™.



Are you implying that Lyr 3 is Incoherent and Incontinent?


----------



## Zachik

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> my big reason is because everything else i have is black and being a bit ocd i like stuff to match. funny thing is i just got the black jot for my father in law and he ended up taking my silver one because i liked the black better. doh. ill see if he wants to trade back now


Totally agree - other than schiit, all other components I've got are black. Just looks so much better!!


----------



## Bruc3

Guys, how does Lyr 3 compare to Valhalla 2 when pairing with HD650? Which is generally considered to have better synergy?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Bruc3 said:


> Guys, how does Lyr 3 compare to Valhalla 2 when pairing with HD650? Which is generally considered to have better synergy?


If your priorities are bass and treble extension, cohesion, and overall tone, Lyr 3.   If you're looking for soundstage and openness, Valhalla.   It's been too long since I've heard the V2, so someone feel free to chime in.

There is also having to roll 4 tubes vs 1, if that's a concern.


----------



## skyline315 (Jul 13, 2018)

Bruc3 said:


> Guys, how does Lyr 3 compare to Valhalla 2 when pairing with HD650? Which is generally considered to have better synergy?


Valhalla is better out of the box. The HD650 sounds a little dull and uninspiring on the Lyr with the stock tubes.

If you choose the right tubes on the Lyr 3, though, the Lyr goes toe to toe with the Valhalla, and has smoother treble.

The Lyr 3 is also more versatile and blows the Valhalla away with other headphones.

If the 650 is your only headphone, go Valhalla. It's cheaper and is very hard to beat with the 650.

If you have other headphones, go Lyr and find a good tube that suits the 650 well.

Other 650 amps to consider:
Vali 2 w/upgraded tube - not as clear/spacious/concise as Valhalla, but also less dry.  This amp is the best bargain in audio as far as I'm concerned.
MCTH w/ LPS - A step up from the Vali 2 w/ the 650.
Gilmore Lite mk 2 - Same price as the Lyr 3 and better with the 650 if you don't want the hassle of tube rolling.  Its a punchy amp with solid bass and is also super smooth.  Really good pairing.

Also worth considering is the new Massdrop ZDT Jr.  It could be hard to get your hands on and it's one I haven't heard yet.  Some, though, consider it the best 650 amp you can get under $1000


----------



## Wes S

skyline315 said:


> Valhalla is better out of the box. The HD650 sounds a little dull and uninspiring on the Lyr with the stock tubes.
> 
> If you choose the right tubes on the Lyr 3, though, the Lyr goes toe to toe with the Valhalla, and has smoother treble.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, I found the best Schiit amp, for the 650's, is the Jotunheim.  Now, for the HD600, I think is better (overall sound) with the Valhalla.  Every other headphone sounds best with Lyr 3.  This is based of of my owning all three Schiit amps and both 650 and 600.


----------



## Bruc3

skyline315 said:


> Other 650 amps to consider:
> MCTH w/ LPS - A step up from the Vali 2 w/ the 650.
> Gilmore Lite mk 2 - Same price as the Lyr 3 and better with the 650 if you don't want the hassle of tube rolling.  Its a punchy amp with solid bass and is also super smooth.  Really good pairing.
> 
> Also worth considering is the new Massdrop ZDT Jr.  It could be hard to get your hands on and it's one I haven't heard yet.  Some, though, consider it the best 650 amp you can get under $1000



Wow a lot of options there, I have been seriously consider the MCTH.

First time I have heard about the Gilmore or ZDT amp, so will research into it. Thanks so much.


----------



## skyline315

Wes S said:


> Believe it or not, I found the best Schiit amp, for the 650's, is the Jotunheim.  Now, for the HD600, I think is better (overall sound) with the Valhalla.  Every other headphone sounds best with Lyr 3.  This is based of of my owning all three Schiit amps and both 650 and 600.


Simply a matter of taste.

I prefer the Valhalla to the Jot.  Both amps liven the 650 up quite a bit, making it leaner and faster sounding.  The Jot takes it one step too far for my tastes.  

Then again, I'm a proven/incurable tube-head.  The Gilmore is the only SS amp I've heard that brings enough smoothness to the table for my tastes.


----------



## Bruc3

Wes S said:


> Believe it or not, I found the best Schiit amp, for the 650's, is the Jotunheim.



Is this Jotunheim with Multibit dac and running balanced?

I do like idea of solid state, as its more cleaner look and simple to me, which I prefer. Although I here so much about 650 should be paired with Tubes.

FYI, I am currently using a NFB 11.28, how would you say it compares?

To be honest, I am very skeptical about Jotunheim and balanced cable as I suspect I won't hear a difference.


----------



## Bruc3

I should probably mention that I like the smooth signature of HD650, I mostly like slower kind of music and instrumental and vocals e.g. Jazz and Mando slow pop.


----------



## skyline315 (Jul 13, 2018)

Bruc3 said:


> Is this Jotunheim with Multibit dac and running balanced?
> 
> I do like idea of solid state, as its more cleaner look and simple to me, which I prefer. Although I here so much about 650 should be paired with Tubes.
> 
> ...





Bruc3 said:


> I should probably mention that I like the smooth signature of HD650, I mostly like slower kind of music and instrumental and vocals e.g. Jazz and Mando slow pop.



I ran the Jot with a Multibit Bifrost.  On this particular amp, with this particular headphone, the balanced output is mandatory.  With other amps (the MCTH, for example), the balanced output doesn't improve the sound.  It's only there for convenience.

From what you're describing, the Gilmore may be a very good match for you.

We should probably curtail the 650 discussion since we've moved away from the Lyr.  Feel free to PM myself, or others, if you still have questions and good luck on your search!

P.S. - I'm listening to the 650 on the Lyr w/ a Psvane UK-6SN7 right now.  It's pretty fantastic.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> so i picked up a lyr 3 today and ill await its arrival. sucks it was silver but oh well. with my luck the black ones will pop up in like a week or so lol.



Damn you got a smokin’ deal!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Damn you got a smokin’ deal!


def a good deal but man the guy who bought the one a couple days before me now he got a KILLER deal 300$ for one.


----------



## tafens

skyline315 said:


> If you choose the right tubes on the Lyr 3, though, the Lyr goes toe to toe with the Valhalla, and has smoother treble.



What tube is the best one in Lyr3 for HD650, and what difference does it make compared to the original Tung-Sol and/or the NOS 6N8S?


----------



## chef8489

tafens said:


> What tube is the best one in Lyr3 for HD650, and what difference does it make compared to the original Tung-Sol and/or the NOS 6N8S?


I would give a Ken Rad vt-231 a try


----------



## skyline315

tafens said:


> What tube is the best one in Lyr3 for HD650, and what difference does it make compared to the original Tung-Sol and/or the NOS 6N8S?


I'm enjoying the 650s with the Psvane UK-6SN7. It has the advantage of still being in production.

The Ken Rad (as mentioned above) is very popular, but I haven't heard it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Received my replacement Lyr 3 two days ago, falling in love all over again. The issue was with high/low relay (?). I’m using the Sylvania “Bad Boy, “ for both my Abyss and HD650’s. I bought the 650 on a lark,  at a good bid price. My DACs are much higher quality now, and I’m finding the 650 better than I remembered, by a wide margin. 

All the hype on the sight that cannot be named is on target. With the Abyss, I’m getting near 4:00, so a bit more power/play Iacone desired, but still sounds wonderful. 

My Clear are still out for repair, The Cable Company is playing games.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 17, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Received my replacement Lyr 3 two days ago, falling in love all over again. The issue was with high/low relay (?). I’m using the Sylvania “Bad Boy, “ for both my Abyss and HD650’s. I bought the 650 on a lark,  at a good bid price. My DACs are much higher quality now, and I’m finding the 650 better than I remembered, by a wide margin.
> 
> All the hype on the sight that cannot be named is on target. With the Abyss, I’m getting near 4:00, so a bit more power/play Iacone desired, but still sounds wonderful.
> 
> My Clear are still out for repair, The Cable Company is playing games.



Your running your Abyss on LYR3 High Gain and volume set at 4:00?


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0 (Jul 17, 2018)

+1 on the Ken-Rad. Mine’s not a VT-231 though.


----------



## Ripper2860

Makes no matter VT-231 and GT are the same.  VT-231 is just a military part number assigned to the same tube as GT.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> Your running your Abyss on LYR3 High Gain and volume set at 4:00?



I was, with the Unit I sent back, haven’t been past 2:00 with the new one.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 18, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I was, with the Unit I sent back, haven’t been past 2:00 with the new one.


Wow!  Those are some power hungry cans.  I can't get past 9:00, in high gain with Alpha Prime, or I would go deaf.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 18, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I was, with the Unit I sent back, haven’t been past 2:00 with the new one.



I have yet to play any of my discs at less than 9:00 or more than 12:00, and more often 10:00 to 11:00, on high gain, but I'm all CD.
What's the voltage output of your source?
Maybe that's what causes the need for increased volume settings.
Output voltage on my ERC-3 is 2 volts SE and 4 volts Balanced.
I use LYR3 low gain on my HD800 and Utopia and that puts the knob at about the same settings, recording dependent.

(Edit: I do use AES & Coax to my Yggy, maybe those voltage numbers only refer to the ERC's analog outputs.)


----------



## garysohn (Jul 19, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Makes no matter VT-231 and GT are the same.  VT-231 is just a military part number assigned to the same tube as GT.


I have a few dozen 6SN7 types. I bought them decades ago (tempus fugit). I had a Bottlehead preamp and the preamp from Cary that was their budget AES line. The Kenrad VT231 I have always sounded as though the bass equalization was turned way up.  I couldn't use them.  I settled on various Sylvania and National Union black bottle. Raytheon and RCA were also fine. I never had the Tungsol.  Today if I wanted just two or three I would look for what were called chrome top Sylvania. The National Unions were hard to find in good condition. And also current production, but as I currently do not use this valve I don't know what is good. I would go with Skyline's Psvane recommendation.  I expect to purchase Lyr3 and Freya. Has anyone else found the Kenrad to be bass heavy?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 19, 2018)

garysohn said:


> I have a few dozen 6SN7 types. I bought them decades ago (tempus fugit). I had a Bottlehead preamp and the preamp from Cary that was their budget AES line. The Kenrad VT231 I have always sounded as though the bass equalization was turned way up.  I couldn't use them.  I settled on various Sylvania and National Union black bottle. Raytheon and RCA were also fine. I never had the Tungsol.  Today if I wanted just two or three I would look for what were called chrome top Sylvania. The National Unions were hard to find in good condition. And also current production, but as I currently do not use this valve I don't know what is good. I would go with Skyline's Psvane recommendation.  I expect to purchase Lyr3 and Freya. Has anyone else found the Kenrad to be bass heavy?


Lots of good info, already in this thread.  I have not read of anyone using the KenRad complain about too much bass.  This amp is unique with what tubes, sound best, compared to what I have read about other 6sn7 amps.


----------



## ProfFalkin

garysohn said:


> I have a few dozen 6SN7 types. I bought them decades ago (tempus fugit). I had a Bottlehead preamp and the preamp from Cary that was their budget AES line. The Kenrad VT231 I have always sounded as though the bass equalization was turned way up.  I couldn't use them.  I settled on various Sylvania and National Union black bottle. Raytheon and RCA were also fine. I never had the Tungsol.  Today if I wanted just two or three I would look for what were called chrome top Sylvania. The National Unions were hard to find in good condition. And also current production, but as I currently do not use this valve I don't know what is good. I would go with Skyline's Psvane recommendation.  I expect to purchase Lyr3 and Freya. Has anyone else found the Kenrad to be bass heavy?


The bass is strong with the KenRad, but whether it is too much is personal taste.   I think it's fine, personally.


----------



## Ripper2860

The bass is strong with this one.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 19, 2018)

The bass is just fine to my ears but some may hear the top highs as a bit soft.

Edit: It's also possible that 2 tubes can have similar sounding mids and high but if one has a larger bass presence it may sound as if it has less highs when it fact the rest of the spectrum is identical.


----------



## Zachik

garysohn said:


> I have a few dozen 6SN7 types. I bought them decades ago (tempus fugit). I had a Bottlehead preamp and the preamp from Cary that was their budget AES line. The Kenrad VT231 I have always sounded as though the bass equalization was turned way up.  I couldn't use them.  I settled on various Sylvania and National Union black bottle. Raytheon and RCA were also fine. I never had the Tungsol.  Today if I wanted just two or three I would look for what were called chrome top Sylvania. The National Unions were hard to find in good condition. And also current production, but as I currently do not use this valve I don't know what is good. I would go with Skyline's Psvane recommendation.  I expect to purchase Lyr3 and Freya. Has anyone else found the Kenrad to be bass heavy?


I personally LOVE extra strong and powerful bass. If you'd like to sell a Kenrad or 2 - PM me. seriously!


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 20, 2018)

@garysohn
K-R bass heavy? No. And I listen primarily to classical music.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

mine just got here!! start listening later tonight.


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats!!  Prepare to be amazed!!!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

sitting down with it in just a bit have to get all the animals settled for the night lol ( we run a reptile rescue here ) and ill get a couple hours with it. not really sure what this tube is its a unbranded tube and only says 6sn7gt otherwise no markings. is this the new tung sol they normally include?


----------



## Ripper2860

It's a Russian tube.  If it's the current one shown on the Schiit site and not the Tung-sol, It's likely a 60's flat-plate Foton.  Not a terrible tube, but there is significant improvement to be had by rolling in a recommended NOS tube.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 20, 2018)

it doesnt look like any they show as far as the markings go. ill take a few pics give me a bit. and oh yeah im going to be down a rabbit hole i can see that already hahaha


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 20, 2018)

If it has a triangle w/ 6H8C, then it's a Foton, otherwise, your guess is as good as mine -- possibly a Sovtek tube. (yuck). Post up the pic and I'm sure you'll get feedback. But let's face it -- you're doomed to the same Tube Roller fate to which all Lyr 3 owners have succumbed.   The sooner you own up to that, the better off you will be.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 21, 2018)

it just says 6sn7gt ussr on the glass ill post pics in a minute. there are no other markings anywhere. i had to take the pic at an angle because it wouldnt show up taken straight on.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

Yeah, that's the same one I got along with the Tung-sol. From what I know, there's been no one that has definitively identified that tube.  Best guess is it's a Sovtek Russian tube.  It's not terrible, but nothing special either.  My opinion and the general consensus is that it's 'meh' tube -- nothing that stands out about it, but nothing that's really terrible either -- lots of room for improvement.  A nice introduction to tubes, but you won't really get a sense for what a wonderful piece of kit Lyr 3 is with that tube.

If you're not wanting to go into the Tube Rolling rabbit hole, get yourself a 40's Ken-Rad VT-231 and call it a day.  You won't regret it!!  

Note:  VT-231 and 6SN7GT are the same.  VT-231 is Military marking and some prefer it, but technically, they are identical.

Here's where I get mine.  Near the bottom of the page.

http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 21, 2018)

i have a bunch of tubes here also from my other amps lol so yeah this one will get a listen but im sure will be meh. also my jot will now match my lyr in silver lol.


----------



## EagleWings

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah, that's the same one I got along with the Tung-sol. From what I know, there's been no one that has definitively identified that tube.  Best guess is it's a Sovtek Russian tube.  It's not terrible, but nothing special either.  My opinion and the general consensus is that it's 'meh' tube -- nothing that stands out about it, but nothing that's really terrible either -- lots of room for improvement.  A nice introduction to tubes, but you won't really get a sense for what a wonderful piece of kit Lyr 3 is with that tube.
> 
> If you're not wanting to go into the Tube Rolling rabbit hole, get yourself a 40's Ken-Rad VT-231 and call it a day.  You won't regret it!!
> 
> ...



Where can I find a *Tube 101* on understanding the tube codes and types? I've tried searching online and couldn't find any source.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

It's tough and I'm certainly not an expert, but here's what I've been able to find (mainly 6SN7-related)...

http://www.triodeel.com/eiacode.htm#tubes
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

And the ultimate guide (if you can find one for sale) ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Lore-A-Reference-Guide-for-Users-and-Collectors-First-Edition-1996-Book-/263807650256?nma=true&si=2CEr0D%2BVa8KKg5TwCFLvUXx5Slo%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 21, 2018)

Edit: Deleted Pics that didn't show up, see below re-posted


----------



## Ripper2860

^^^  No pics.


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> ^^^  No pics.



I can see them when I scroll up from here.
Anybody out there that can or can't see them?


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 21, 2018)

2nd try
The one 6H8C I have is certainly Russian mfg'd, but the getter flash must be all the way on the bottom.
Don't expect my Foton's to arrive for 60 to 90 days.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

I see them now.  Weird.

Those look like 60's Fotons non-ribbed like I  received from Upscale Audio.  Maybe 66-68.  My guess is they silkscreen the bottles with that label when the original markings are no longer visible after cleanup.


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> I see them now.  Weird.
> 
> Those look like 60's Fotons non-ribbed like I  received from Upscale Audio.  Maybe 66-68.  My guess is rhey silkscreen the bottles with that label when the original markings are no longer visible after cleanup.



Yep, Upscale. I'm going to delete the pics from my first post.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

Here's a pic of the Foton from the Schiit site.  The Diamond logo with 6H8C inside it is the give-away that it is a Foton tube.  Our Upscale Foton's likely had that logo at some point in time.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 21, 2018)

Ha! On me! 60 to 90 days? Нет!
Fotons just arrived. They came sealed in enough bubble wrap to raise the Titanic. Lots of printing on all, all have the number 53 on them and all are ribbed and clean with fairly clean pins, (but I'll give'em a once over). I'll need to order some boxes from Amazon to store them.
May not be obvious from the pics but the far right tube with the taller glass bottle has its plastic center pin shaved on the bottom, not chamfered like the others (which is normal). All have low side flashing visible.
Not sure if these are supposed to be matched pairs or 4 singles.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

Yep.  They look like the last batch of 53's I received from 'el-Rayder'.  It's typically a 3-week ETA to the US.  Once they arrived, it took me 20 minutes to release them from their bubble-wrap cocoon!!

You are in for one hell of a ride.


----------



## FLTWS

There's got to be a medical term for this addiction.
Tubicitis!


----------



## Ripper2860

I'll go with that since Tuberculosis is already taken.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

FLTWS said:


> Yep, Upscale. I'm going to delete the pics from my first post.


i was just going to say that looks like the "jungle tube" from upscale i have a few of those


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 21, 2018)

Well, an embarrassment of riches for me today.
A second package from Brent Jesse of bargain stuff.

                    WH 6SN7 GT Staggered Plates   --------              WH 6SN7 GTB Staggered Plates "D" Getter                                -------  Matched Pair / Baldwin Organ / 6SN7 GTB Angled T-Plates, Halo Getters


----------



## ProfFalkin

The Baldwin tubes are made by Sylvania.  Round mica Sylvania tubes are pretty darn good.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2018)

^^^  Beat me to the punch.  I've heard good things about the Sylvania / Baldwin tubes.  Rumor has it tubes had to meet a stricter standard for them to be labeled as Baldwin.

I managed to snag a lot of four tubes that has 2 Sylvania made / Maganavox labeled legit 1952 Chrome Domes and 2 Sylvania top getter / angled plate tubes that look to be round mica like the Baldwins.  I'll know more in a few days.

I really need to cool my heels or there will be spousal hell to pay!!


----------



## Zachik

FLTWS said:


> I'll need to order some boxes from Amazon to store them


Please share a link - I need boxes too...



FLTWS said:


> A second package from Brent Jesse of bargain stuff.
> 
> WH 6SN7 GT Staggered Plates -------- WH 6SN7 GTB Staggered Plates "D" Getter


So... you're the one who just bought the last WH D-Getter from Brent Jesse.... missed it by a day  
I am buying various tubes until I can finally get 1 WH D-getter of my own...


----------



## Ripper2860

Here's where I get mine ...

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/tube-box-fits-6v6gt-6sn7gt-12sk7

BTW -- we should probably move Tube Talk to  the Lyr 3 Tube Roller thread and leave this one to actual Lyr 3 gear talk. (Just a suggestion.)


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 21, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Please share a link - I need boxes too...
> 
> *I ended up ordering 10 6SN7, 10 6DJ8, and some cone shaped q-tips from Antique Electronic Supply. They take CC's or PayPal. They are so cheap it doesn't make sense to order just 1 given the cost of postage to do it several times.*
> 
> ...



Expand it.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

id also love to find just one d getter if anyone sees ones and wants to let me know. thats one im lacking for this amp for sure.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> Well, an embarrassment of riches for me today.
> A second package from Brent Jesse of bargain stuff.
> 
> WH 6SN7 GT Staggered Plates   --------              WH 6SN7 GTB Staggered Plates "D" Getter                                -------  Matched Pair / Baldwin Organ / 6SN7 GTB Angled T-Plates, Halo Getters



I have a couple of the Baldwin Tubes as well, haven't tried them yet, so I'm looking forward to reading your impressions. I finally pulled the ”Bad Boy” out, love that tube, I currently have a Ken Rad VT231 in the Lyr. You all were spot on about the bass, the clarity also seems to be improved. It wasn't warmed up, so I'll wait before writing anything definitive.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jul 22, 2018)

If you guys can source one of these. You'll have the very best 6sn7 variant. A few years ago I had a Woo Wa6. I spent months rolling all the greats. This tube is so many levels above the "great" tubes.
Second best is a toss up between the
Brimar CV1988
Marconi B65
All subjective though.
Cheers
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153103998890
Edit: Check with Jason to see if his amp can handle these tubes. They were fine in my Woo.


----------



## exdmd

Guidostrunk said:


> If you guys can source one of these. You'll have the very best 6sn7 variant. A few years ago I had a Woo Wa6. I spent months rolling all the greats. This tube is so many levels above the "great" tubes.
> Second best is a toss up between the
> Brimar CV1988
> Marconi B65
> ...



Excellent NOS 1950's Mullard CV181 ECC32 tubes (black base, black plates) usually go for about $330 from reputable tube vendors. I would be careful buying off eBay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bought 100's of tubes off of eBay. Never had any issues. It is important to understand codes of tubes though. I will admit some sellers are clueless , and sometimes dishonest in their listings. 

Tubes of this caliber , that I've mentioned. I've never had a bad experience in the 6 years of purchasing them. Besides, there's always PayPal protections. 
I'm not the only one on here that has dealt with ebay. You can ask my friends in the other Lyr(1&2) rolling threads, as well as the Woo rolling threads. 
If you want to save money rolling, either the for sale section here or ebay is the way to go. 
Cheers.



exdmd said:


> Excellent NOS 1950's Mullard CV181 ECC32 tubes (black base, black plates) usually go for about $330 from reputable tube vendors. I would be careful buying off eBay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not sure if these are still available. I'm sure 2 ppl from this thread could snag 1 each or of course buy both and be set forever with your lyr3. Lol
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-mullard-cv181-ecc32-single-or-pair.879681/


----------



## Guidostrunk

Be sure to ask Jason about the MU ratings though folks. The CV181 I believe has a slightly higher MU.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Giving the HiFiMan Sundara a go for a few days with the Lyr 3 / Mimby.   (Normal headphone is the ZMF Eikon.)  Someone loaned them to me, so they'll be going back at the end of the week.

Initial impressions:

It lacks sub-bass.  It's not terrible, but EDM fans are going to be disappointed.  Even rolling in some different tubes (like the KenRad VT231 black plate / clear glass) doesn't really help this much.   I don't use EQ much, if ever, so I can't comment on how it responds to that.

There is a detail veil to this, and a slight treble etch.  Similar to the HD650 veil on a bad audio chain, but this one isn't getting better going to better gear.  (Lyr 3/Mimby to BW2/Gumby.)  In short - it lacks on micro-detail quite a bit.   For example, no matter what tube I used in the Lyr, I couldn't get these headphones to bring across the hum of Stevie Ray Vaughn's Marshall stack on his track "Tin Pan Alley".   It gives such character to the song, and it's just missing on these headphones.   It is readily presented on the ZMF Eikon.   Another track where detail is glossed over is Rebecca Pidgeon's "Spanish Harlem".  If I recall correctly, the entire band and Rebecca recorded that track together in the same room in the studio.  You can hear the bass player lift the upright bass and reposition it in the recording, as it makes a distinct 'clack' early on in the track.   Right before the drummer starts playing, you can hear him pick up his sticks.  None of this was audible on the Sundara.   D- to the Sundara on detail retrieval.   It would be a complete F were it not for cymbals being fairly close to natural sounding with a adequate amount of decay.

Imaging is rather hazy and indistinct.  Staging is 2 dimensional.  It presents a very in-your-head, blob like stage.

The ear pads are uncomfortable.  I'm bald, and find them hot and itchy after several hours.   They are also too small.  I have to shoehorn the top and back of my earlobes into the ear holes.  This is a personal pet peeve of mine - I don't like it when pads touch the ears.

The stock cable is utter crap.  It feels like two of the smallest headphone wires ever used to connect a transducer were sleeved in some flimsy fish tank tubing.  It is rubbery, and springy, and while it doesn't resist bending much, it loves to spring back into a straight line.  It also gets to the point where it stops bending, and it just kinks.  It's just awkward.   Add to that the 90 degree 3.5mm TRS plug on the amp end and you have one of the worst cables I've ever come across from an OEM.   Re-read that .  I said 3.5mm... as in, the little plug, not the standard 1/4" TRS plug.  These are open back planars.  Who would be dumb enough (other than Raif at InnerFidelity) to take these on the go?!   I've met some bad cables before, but this HFM cable makes them look like top end Nordost cables.  It is that bad.  To my knowledge, HFM didn't even have the decency to include a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter, as I had to use my own.

On the other side of the coin...  They are light.  The headband is fairly comfortable.  They seem better built than other HFM headphones I've tried.  By that I mean: It doesn't feel like I'm holding a 3000 year old historical artifact that is sure to crumble to dust at any moment, and if it does I know I can't afford to replace it.  

Other than the lack of sub-bass, tonally, this is a good sounding headphone.  Something in the lower to middle-mids do sound a wee bit recessed, but the rest of the FR seems nicely done.  Treble is clear.  I've not had a sibilance issue, even using brighter tubes.  Cymbals sound decent, as stated above.  Vocals seem well placed in the FR - neither over emphasized nor recessed.  I can see quite a few people really enjoying how these sound.   

In short - Treble heads and bass heads need not apply.   They're kind of a different flavor on the HD650 in some ways.  The Sundara will have a slight edge in treble extension, but they don't scale very well with better sources like the HD650.  I feel the HD650 has more mid-bass impact.  The HD650 does mids better.  HD650 does detail retrieval better too. 

VS the Eikons, the Sundara are very much *not *good.

Enjoy.


----------



## Ripper2860




----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


>


You like the Sundara?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 24, 2018)

Take a look at my signature.  

IMHO, they outperform the HD6XX/650 and puch well above their class.  I never knew what the Sennheiser veil was until I got the Hifmans and then it was apparent. Of course my ears, my music, and my sonic preferences could be a big differentiator in my liking the Sundaras.

And the fact that Sundara unseated the HD650 from Tyll's Wall of Fame has to count for something.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 24, 2018)

I spent a week with the HEK in August 2016, and checking my notes I'm pretty much aligned with a lot of your impressions of Sundara. The one thing that I remember distinctly was that there was some coloration or lack of transparency that blurred some detailing with the HEK that always had me saying "almost", "almost"! I had no problem with the bass end and they were comfortable but had a flimsy feel, but for the money, I felt I was getting a better window on the sound with my HD800 (and my mostly classical music). This was also several months before auditioning the original Abyss 1266 which I wasn't crazy about either. Still can't figure how my impression of the Phi a year later changed the game for me, and the CC pads were the finishing touch. To each,their own. Transducer sound is a bona-fide, big-time, personal preference thing with me and my preferences in music and I would never argue against somebody else's preference for a different sounding HP.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Jul 24, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Take a look at my signature.
> 
> IMHO, they outperform the HD6XX/650 and puch well above their class.  I never knew what the Sennheiser veil was until I got the Hifmans and then it was apparent. Of course my ears, my music, and my sonic preferences could be a big differentiator in my liking the Sundaras.
> 
> And the fact that Sundara unseated the HD650 from Tyll's Wall of Fame has to count for something.


Anything could unseat something from the WOF.   Hell, no offense to Tyll - I've had lunch with him and he's a kick ass dude - but he basically called the Ether Flow C an overpriced M50x and did NOT put them on the WOF.   Dan threw the mother of all hissy fits and next thing you know they're on the WOF.  Tyll even had to do a 2nd video, a kind of retraction article if you will, putting them up on the WOF and explaining why.  The WOF is a lie.   Besides, Raif killed the WOF, so it's a lie and it's dead.

Anyway... keep in mind, my preferences are 100% in the Eikon camp.   I don't even listen to my HD650s much anymore, although they were my favs for 8+ years.  So, baseline everything about the Sundara against the Eikons.   Eikons = Better bass in every way.  Better detail retrieval.  Better headstage and imaging.  etc...

The Eikons also cost me 3 times more than what the Sundara cost.   

I would be recommending the Sundara as an alternative to the HD650 to everyone I knew if they were only slightly more expensive than the HD6XX.  Overall they sound very good, but they are ~ 2x the price of an HD650/XX, so I don't consider them a value pick in the mid-fi category.   Especially when you can KISS mod the 650.


----------



## ProfFalkin

FLTWS said:


> Transducer sound is a bona-fide, big-time, personal preference thing with me and my preferences in music and I would never argue against somebody else's preference for a different sounding HP.


That's 100% true every time.   I like what I like.  You like what you like.   It's not a slight against you if I don't like your headphones.   It just means I just don't like your headphones.  hehe.


----------



## FLTWS

I also really, really dislike the color yellow in anything but flowers and sunsets. No cars, no clothes, no schiit!


----------



## Ripper2860

As I stated - it's my opinion and subject to my ears, and music listening preferences.  It was not my intention to offend.  

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.  I have no experience with the Eikons but they seem highly regarded.


----------



## Ripper2860

My Sundaras are yellow ...


----------



## FLTWS

Ripper2860 said:


> My Sundaras are yellow ...



Of course they are, lol.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> It was not my intention to offend.


I'm not offended.  

Might want to watch out for that FLTWS guy though... Hehehe


----------



## Ripper2860

Sorry if I seem terse in my responses today -  I'm suffering from Lyr 3 separation anxiety.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

lol buy a second one. thats what i would do and then have a backup and or sell it later haha.


----------



## FLTWS

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> lol buy a second one. thats what i would do and then have a backup and or sell it later haha.



That's Plan C.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 24, 2018)

Hmmmm.  I know you're kidding, but ...  

Actually the Magni 3 sounds pretty good. ...


Even with the Sundaras.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

well maybe.... not really. lol. ive done it before im crazy like that sometimes.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'd like to wish my US brothers a happy National Margarita Day!  For those not in the US make it your favorite beverage day and Cheers!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> I'd like to wish my US brothers a happy National Margarita Day!  For those not in the US make it your favorite beverage day and Cheers!


I'm going to have two!


----------



## mrip541

Lots of tube talk in here. There is a separate lyr 3 tube rolling thread. Can we please keep the tube talk in the other thread?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah,  Sorry.  We kinda get carried away.

If you own a Lyr 3 -- enjoy.  If you don't -- get one, ASAP!!


----------



## 441879 (Jul 24, 2018)

I’ve been lurking on this thread for a while. Turns out that might not have been a good idea because I find myself expecting a FedEx package tomorrow.  One of these days I’ll learn to stay away from hobby forums.

Anyway, I have some questions I am hoping someone can offer a reasoned opinion on:

My sound chain is Spotify > idevice > Modi 2U > Loki > Magni 3 > Aeon Flow C or HE400i and sometimes an iSine or other iem.
With the arrival of tomorrow’s Fedex, the Magni 3 becomes a Lyr 3. I ignored the very reasonable and rational posters who counseled against buying a bunch of tubes right off the bat and bought a few tubes based on the thread consensus. In for penny, in for a pound.

Question 1: which is likely to be more limiting- the digital side of the chain or the analog side?

Question 2: If the answer to Question 1 is “The digital side”, which is the limiting digital component; source or DAC? If it’s the DAC that’s something I’d likely consider upgrading. If it’s Spotify, I’ll not bother because I prefer it by far to other streaming services I’ve tried and I like having my music collection on all my devices.

Question 3: I’ve limited my tube purchases to the budget end of the spectrum with the most expensive being a true Sylvania “Bad-Boy”. Is it worth going beyond that with my current setup or should the money be better spent elsewhere?

Thanks,

Will


----------



## earnmyturns

will f said:


> Question 1: which is likely to be more limiting- the digital side of the chain or the analog side?


Lyr 3 with stock Tung-Sol, and even more with Ken-Rad VT231, keeps up with a digital chain I've selected carefully (see my sig) and cost several multiples of the Lyr 3. Always with lossless (PCM FLAC) music.


> Question 2: If the answer to Question 1 is “The digital side”, which is the limiting digital component; source or DAC? If it’s the DAC that’s something I’d likely consider upgrading. If it’s Spotify, I’ll not bother because I prefer it by far to other streaming services I’ve tried and I like having my music collection on all my devices.


I'd not bother upgrading the digital side of the chain if you are committed to Spotify. More expensive sources and DACs only make sense for lossless sources.


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## 441879 (Jul 25, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> Lyr 3 with stock Tung-Sol, and even more with Ken-Rad VT231, keeps up with a digital chain I've selected carefully (see my sig) and cost several multiples of the Lyr 3. Always with lossless (PCM FLAC) music.
> 
> I'd not bother upgrading the digital side of the chain if you are committed to Spotify. More expensive sources and DACs only make sense for lossless sources.



Thanks for confirming what I suspected. I noticed a significant improvement in SQ (bass control and detail especially) moving from portable DAC/Amps to the Schiit Modi /Loki / Magni chain, especially with current hungry planars and phones with very low and variable impedance. Hopefully I will notice improvement with the Lyr 3 as well, but if not then I maxed out the cost benefit and I can rest easy knowing I have all the amp I’ll ever need.  I find the sound of my current system mesmerizing and have no problem if this is as good as it gets.


----------



## ProfFalkin

will f said:


> Question 3: I’ve limited my tube purchases to the budget end of the spectrum with the most expensive being a true Sylvania “Bad-Boy”. Is it worth going beyond that with my current setup or should the money be better spent elsewhere?


We've done quite a bit of tube rolling, and some of the less expensive tubes have been real gems with the Lyr.   I'd say listen to the ones you have, pick a favorite, and go from there.  If there is a sound quality you want to improve upon after that, we can probably make some good suggestions tube wise.   And, as always, post impressions of tubes and stuff.  It helps us all.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> We've done quite a bit of tube rolling, and some of the less expensive tubes have been real gems with the Lyr.   I'd say listen to the ones you have, pick a favorite, and go from there.  If there is a sound quality you want to improve upon after that, we can probably make some good suggestions tube wise.   And, as always, post impressions of tubes and stuff.  It helps us all.


Listen to this guy. He knows his stuff!


----------



## 441879

ProfFalkin said:


> We've done quite a bit of tube rolling, and some of the less expensive tubes have been real gems with the Lyr.   I'd say listen to the ones you have, pick a favorite, and go from there.  If there is a sound quality you want to improve upon after that, we can probably make some good suggestions tube wise.   And, as always, post impressions of tubes and stuff.  It helps us all.



Looking forward to doing exactly that. So far I’ve added a 1950s NOS Tung Sol 6SN7GT, an RCA 6SN7GTB (chrome top, year unknown), and a 1952 NOS Sylvania two hole bad boy plus the two tubes Schiit sells. Pictures to accompany impressions though that’s a week away at least. I figure I’ll start with the NOS Russian, then the new Tung Sol, etc.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Ripper2860 said:


> Sorry if I seem terse in my responses today -  I'm suffering from Lyr 3 separation anxiety.



I'm so happy to have a new one in the house, Schiit Customer Service is fantastic (as usual).


----------



## 441879 (Jul 26, 2018)

So Lyr 3 arrived at my office today and I parked it in a corner to burn in the Russian NOS tube.

Now I’m home and listening. Probably 3 hours max burn in and maybe 1/2 hour of listening to the String Cheeze Incident Rhythm of the Road. First impressions compared to the Magni:

HE400i: Bass is really solid and controlled. Clarity is as good as the Magni, but a little smoother. Soundstage is still settling but moving towards placing you front and center about 10-20 feet away from the musicians in a live music venue.  Which is probably close to the actual conditions of the recording. Already it’s pretty obvious the Lyr 3 + Russian is a better amp for my HE400i than the Magni.

MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed:  This combination works better than anything I’ve ever heard before. Defiritely a new high bar for me. The sound is compelling. The 400i showed improvement, but not like this. I don’t know if the Magni was seriously holding back the AFCs or if it’s just a great synergy. Anyway, soundstage currently feels like I’m 10’ away and quite deep. Sound not particularly punchy but very easy to listen to with no fatigue. Clarity is crystal with no sharp edges. Realism is excellent. No complaints at all. Bass goes very deep with no bloat.

Edit: with more listening I’m hearing a tiny bit of grain, but only because the clarity is so good.

2nd Edit: grain went away after another hour of listening.

3rd Edit: comparing HE400i to AFC: 400i is dryer and thinner. Mid-range isn’t as energetic and top end a little sharper. I’m thinking the 400i would like a warmer tube.


----------



## Zachik

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> lol buy a second one. thats what i would do and then have a backup and or sell it later haha.


I was tempted to do so, but running out of desk space (already got 4 amps total)... I wish I could use one to burn in while another to listen to music 
Also, I have an A/B switch setup, so I can connect 1 headphone to 2 amps and flip back and forth while music playing. Would have been great to have 2 Lyr3s, so I can A/B compare tubes in real time (as opposed to use memory from 5-10 minutes ago, or longer if tube is given time to warm up).......
If only I could stack those...


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

lol. i have a sort of shelf / rack i keep in my room where my audio equipment resides. its about 6ft vertical and i can move the shelves up or down. it makes it easy when its right next to my desk i can leave the glass door open on it for venting and the back is open i never put the "backing" on it. im tempted to grab a second one honestly if i can find a good deal on a used one.


----------



## 441879

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> lol. i have a sort of shelf / rack i keep in my room where my audio equipment resides. its about 6ft vertical and i can move the shelves up or down. it makes it easy when its right next to my desk i can leave the glass door open on it for venting and the back is open i never put the "backing" on it. im tempted to grab a second one honestly if i can find a good deal on a used one.



Sounds like a lot of space. Small scale here.


----------



## 441879

An eBay package showed up today so I decided to make it the second tube I’ll try. Currently burning in:


----------



## Wes S

will f said:


> An eBay package showed up today so I decided to make it the second tube I’ll try. Currently burning in:


Nice pics!  And down the rabbit you go. . .let the fun begin


----------



## 441879 (Jul 26, 2018)

Ok, so The 1953 TS 6NS7GT has been been burning in for about 6 hours so. My impressions are as follows:

HE400i: Brightens up this headphone a lot compared to the stock Russian. Bass is there and deep. Sound profile feels U shaped with the mids taking a step back. Could be a little fatiguing with extended use, but sound is engaging. Detail not on par with Russian tube. Soundstage feels large and deep.

AEON Flow Closed (AFC): upper bass / mids feel recessed compared to the stock Russian NOS. High frequencies are more noticeable but clarity is not as good and it’s missing the holographic character of the Russian. Still sounds good, but not knocking my socks off. It’s kind of boring and not something I would feel like listening to for hours. It’s  not particularly fatiguing but that’s probably thanks to the phones. Soundstage feels like you’re standing in amongst the instruments. Detail retrieval is unimpressive.

This tube doesn’t really do it for me, but it could just be that it takes longer to break in than the Russian. I’m going to give it a full 24 hrs before I decide if it’s worth keeping. It does sound a lot better now than it did when I first fired it up.


----------



## ProfFalkin

will f said:


> Ok, so The 1953 TS 6NS7GT has been been burning in for about 6 hours so. My impressions are as follows:
> 
> HE400i: Brightens up this headphone a lot compared to the stock Russian. Bass is there and deep. Sound profile feels U shaped with the mids taking a step back. Could be a little fatiguing with extended use, but sound is engaging. Detail not on par with Russian tube. Soundstage feels large and deep.
> 
> ...


I noticed that most of my tubes settled in pretty well after 40 hours or so.   Some faster, like my Raytheons, others longer like the WH-D.

I have a TS as well, and I wish I could remember how long it took.  Not sure I'd it's the same exact tube as yours though.


----------



## 441879 (Jul 27, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I noticed that most of my tubes settled in pretty well after 40 hours or so.   Some faster, like my Raytheons, others longer like the WH-D.
> 
> I have a TS as well, and I wish I could remember how long it took.  Not sure I'd it's the same exact tube as yours though.



Thanks for the advice Professor. I thought about the sound while I was walking the dog- the only real problem with the tube is the high end (where the high hat sits). It’s a little bright and sharp and it’s overwhelming the mids. If it mellows out over the next day or two it will have a really nice sound.

EDIT: Sound has continued to evolve. Much more impact on the bottom. Top has smoothed out and become sweeter. Can’t say the Russian tube sounds better anymore, which is another way of saying it sounds fantastic now. I also reactivated my tidal membership so I can experience some of my favorites lossless.


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## 441879

I figured tube comparisons should probably be in the tube rolling thread so I put my opinions there:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/page-57#post-14388046


----------



## Slashn77

Hey I am brand new to tube amps and have been looking to upgrade from my Mayflower ARC dac/amp.

I have hd 650 hifiman 4XX and hd700 as well as Andromedas I would like to hear with a tube

I always wanted to hear what tubes sound like and am mainly a IEM guy because when I am at my computer I mainly play FPS games and but listen to spotify premium 320kps(might go back to Tidal lossless) on my computer maybe 5 hours a week(usually listen to music through my xdsd moving around the house)

Would it be overkill to get a Lyr 3 with multibit card+$200 or save $100 and get the regular 4490 DAC.

Basically I am wondering first of all if the Lyr 3 is a good tune amp for mid fi for the price or is there something a better bang for the buck in this price range.
Secondly, For my Spotify/tidal uses is the MB a significant enough upgrade for double the price for someone who listens for enjoyment vs analytical (I do not want to upgrade for a long time so I have no problem with $100 extra if it makes a n audible difference to the average ear.
Lastly, Would you recommend getting the amp with Dac card or getting the modi MB and Lyr 3 separate. (Or doesn’t really matter just personal preference is my guess)

Looking to pull the trigger soon so any opinions of advice is appreciated! Thanks


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 6, 2018)

Mine has the MB card.   I use a mimby instead.  The staging is better, and while they sound very similar tonally, the mimby is just a bit better overall.   $50 better than the MB card?   Hmmm... I think so.

Now... About whether the Lyr 3 is a good tube amp.   It is a fantastic tube *hybrid* amp.  I emphasize this as there are more tube amps out there than you can shake a stick at, and they all sound different.  OTL amps will sound much different than the Lyr 3 - such as the Bottlehead Crack.  Transformer coupled are a ton more expensive and have a different sound too.

The Lyr is basically a solid state amp with the soul of a tube amp.  This means you get all the extension, impact, slam, etc of a SS amp.  You also get that etheral tube sound, and the ability to tweak the sound to how you want it by rolling tubes.

If you want true tube amp, start with a Crack.  If you want a taste of tubes without the OTL pitfalls, Lyr 3.

Edit:  Nevermind, the Crack is bad with IEMs... Forget I suggested it.


----------



## 441879 (Aug 6, 2018)

Slashn77 said:


> Hey I am brand new to tube amps and have been looking to upgrade from my Mayflower ARC dac/amp.
> 
> I have hd 650 hifiman 4XX and hd700 as well as Andromedas I would like to hear with a tube
> 
> ...



IMHO the Lyr 3 is definitely a star performer. I certainly noticed a sound improvement over my Magni 3. The sound isn’t particularly tubey though. I’d describe it as a nice marriage of solid state dynamics and flexibility combined with the excellent staging and sweet sound that tubes can produce.

Re your DAC: I asked the same basic question when I bought my Lyr 3. Long story short, it’s unlikely you will hear any significant difference between a multi bit and the AKM AK4490 if you are using Spotify premium on your smartphone. Tidal does have higher res audio that might justify the extra expense though, so if you’re thinking about going that way, I’d consider it.


----------



## Slashn77

Thanks for the quick responses. 
I had tidal lossless for a long time and liked it but I was so sick of all the new rap content that they push over and over and also do not have the great playlists with amazing acoustic jazz vocal and chesky recordings.

Back on topic. The Lyr 3 with MB b stock is $650 or amp only for $450. No 4490+ L3 in b stock.
Im thinking it being a Hybrid with the option for LSST tubes for SS is an advantage bc I am not going to want the tube sound when gaming with hd700’s.(I don’t want to invest too much in case the tube sound isn’t what I like.
There was a Questyle CMA400i for like $500 in the FS thread that someone got to before me. It is obviously not a tube but would of saved me $150 and has a nice DAC with balanced XLR+2.5mm that would of been a very nice upgrade from my desktop setup now as well.


----------



## Slashn77

Has anyone compared the Lyr 3 to the massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH) amp since it is $250. Maybe if that is comparable in SQ I can get my feet wet for cheaper and grab a modi MB for my DAC


----------



## wasupdog

The lyr3 is flat out a better amp, even considering the price difference.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 6, 2018)

Slashn77 said:


> Has anyone compared the Lyr 3 to the massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH) amp since it is $250. Maybe if that is comparable in SQ I can get my feet wet for cheaper and grab a modi MB for my DAC


I had both, at the same time.   The MCTH is a softer sound, and didn't carry the impact or weight of the Lyr at either end of the FR spectrum.  It did render spatial detail a touch better in depth.  For tone, I preferred the Lyr as well, but that's entirely preference.  I thought the MCTH was more OTL sounding, or more "tubey" in some regards.

IMO, MCTH would be fine for some acoustic music where the full range of the frequency spectrum isn't being challenged, but for electronic music and pop where bass can really reach low, or in classical or horn centric jazz where you want lots of air, I'd pick the Lyr.

MCTH is a fine amp, don't get me wrong.  On a certain Site-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named there is a great thread where people are finding cheap linear power supplies and making it perform and sound even better, but my take on it is that I would rather not bother and stick to the Lyr 3.  I thought I'd throw it out there though.

Regardless of which way you go, good luck and I hope you are satisfied!

Comparisons based on listening with stock tubes.  YMMV.  No tubes were harmed in the making of this film.  Names changed to protect the innocent.  Etc...


----------



## Slashn77

ProfFalkin said:


> I had both, at the same time.   The MCTH is a softer sound, and didn't carry the impact or weight of the Lyr at either end of the FR spectrum.  It did render spatial detail a touch better in depth.  For tone, I preferred the Lyr as well, but that's entirely preference.  I thought the MCTH was more OTL sounding, or more "tubey".
> 
> IMO, MCTH would be fine for some acoustic music where the full range of the frequency spectrum isn't being challenged, but for electronic music and pop where bass can really reach low, or in classical or horn centric jazz where you want lots of air, I'd pick the Lyr.
> 
> Comparisons based on listening with stock tubes.  YMMV.  No tubes were harmed in the making of this film.  Names changed to protect the innocent.  Etc...


That is really good insight.
I actually do listen to some EDM when I am in the mood but acoustic jazz and pretty much anything I can find with a lot of instruments and some nice vocals. 
I do not have the budget or the room for multiple combos for different music (I mainly use different HP’s for that) so a good all around setup under $700 for the Dac and Amp to work with everything nicely. If I had more room I would get a a better SS upgrade from my ARC  like Questyle 400i or jot w/DAC then get a separate tube amp in the future that doesn’t break the bank like a little dot 3? or similar


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 6, 2018)

Slashn77 said:


> That is really good insight.
> I actually do listen to some EDM when I am in the mood but acoustic jazz and pretty much anything I can find with a lot of instruments and some nice vocals.
> I do not have the budget or the room for multiple combos for different music (I mainly use different HP’s for that) so a good all around setup under $700 for the Dac and Amp to work with everything nicely. If I had more room I would get a a better SS upgrade from my ARC  like Questyle 400i or jot w/DAC then get a separate tube amp in the future that doesn’t break the bank like a little dot 3? or similar


No offense to the little dot fanboys out there, but the LD3 my friend bought was terrible.  I borrowed it for a few weeks (he used my Jot while I used his LD3) and after that experience we both came away with the opinion that the LD3 was complete $hite.   Get a Vali 2 instead.


----------



## Slashn77 (Aug 6, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> No offense to the little dot fanboys out there, but the LD3 my friend bought was terrible.  I borrowed it for a few weeks (he used my Jot while I used his LD3) and after that experience we both came away with the opinion that the LD3 was complete $hite.   Get a Vali 2 instead.


Edit: I actually confused with Vali 2 with Valhalla 2. I see the Valhalla 2 is a full OTL tube amp vs hybrid L3. 
I am going to do a lot of reading of reviews before I keep asking more questions.
Thanks guys


----------



## skyline315

Slashn77 said:


> Edit: I actually confused with Vali 2 with Valhalla 2. I see the Valhalla 2 is a full OTL tube amp vs hybrid L3.
> I am going to do a lot of reading of reviews before I keep asking more questions.
> Thanks guys


The Vali 2 (with upgraded tube) is the best deal in audio I've ever run across. I'd keep it in consideration if the Lyr feels a bit steep to you.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Slashn77 said:


> Has anyone compared the Lyr 3 to the massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH) amp since it is $250. Maybe if that is comparable in SQ I can get my feet wet for cheaper and grab a modi MB for my DAC



I currently have both, and won't be much help, because I like both amps. First, they both punch upward by a wide margin. I am using a Ken Rad VT231, or a Sylvania ”Bad Boy, ” and an Amperex A-Frame in the CTH, both are inky black backgrounds, decent ”head stage” (though not the last word). The CTH doesn't quite have enough power for the Abyss, but plenty for the Focal Utopia/Clear and HD650. Depending on what Headphones you have, either one is a gateway drug into tube rolling.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

^^ imo the lyr3 is the better amp all the way around but both are very nice amps. one thing i prefer about the lyr3 is when using different tubes the sound changes a lot more based on the tube vs the cth which i find i can tube roll but it doesnt affect it nearly as much. i do own both.


----------



## Slashn77

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> ^^ imo the lyr3 is the better amp all the way around but both are very nice amps. one thing i prefer about the lyr3 is when using different tubes the sound changes a lot more based on the tube vs the cth which i find i can tube roll but it doesnt affect it nearly as much. i do own both.


What do you think about the CTH being half the price since you own both? 
We all know diminishing returns is huge in this hobby and if I can get 90% of the Lyr for about half price that would be a huge bonus to me I want a good value as well and the Lyr 3 with DAC card was already on the high end of what I wanted to spend. Thinking about getting a modi MB with CTH might be nice for under $500 or less if I can get one of them used


----------



## Zachik

Slashn77 said:


> What do you think about the CTH being half the price since you own both?
> We all know diminishing returns is huge in this hobby and if I can get 90% of the Lyr for about half price that would be a huge bonus to me I want a good value as well and the Lyr 3 with DAC card was already on the high end of what I wanted to spend. Thinking about getting a modi MB with CTH might be nice for under $500 or less if I can get one of them used


CTH + RDAC is a nice combo! Sound wise and visually (Stack beautifully). 
The RDAC is better than Mimby, IMHO.


----------



## Slashn77

Zachik said:


> CTH + RDAC is a nice combo! Sound wise and visually (Stack beautifully).
> The RDAC is better than Mimby, IMHO.


What is the RDAC?


----------



## Zachik

Slashn77 said:


> What is the RDAC?


Massdrop's first R2R DAC - see:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac

The drop is not currently active, but I suspect before end of 2018 (hopefully much sooner) it would re-open for new orders...


----------



## earnmyturns

Zachik said:


> Massdrop's first R2R DAC - see:
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac
> 
> The drop is not currently active, but I suspect before end of 2018 (hopefully much sooner) it would re-open for new orders...


Did you have access to one of the preview RDACs available to a few to form an opinion on how it compares to the Mimby?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

earnmyturns said:


> Did you have access to one of the preview RDACs available to a few to form an opinion on how it compares to the Mimby?



One of the main reasons I like both Amps is that I’m using Vinshine’s Referance R2R Ladder DAC, my spare DAC is also an R2R, a PCM63K based Monarchy that has a cap upgrade from Mr. Poon (the owner of Monarchy Audio), so they are the antithesis of “digital glare.” Both DACs are very analog like, I don’t think I could ever return to a Sabre based DAC.


----------



## Zachik

earnmyturns said:


> Did you have access to one of the preview RDACs available to a few to form an opinion on how it compares to the Mimby?


Yes and "kind of".
Yes - the RDAC has been in my desktop setup.
Kind-of: I do not have Mimby, and never auditioned it, BUT have the Metrum Amethyst which IMHO is on par (or very close to) Gumby... I did compare Gumby to the Amethyst. So, by extension the RDAC is (IMHO) better than Mimby!


----------



## JamminVMI

Slashn77 said:


> Thanks for the quick responses.
> I had tidal lossless for a long time and liked it but I was so sick of all the new rap content that they push over and over and also do not have the great playlists with amazing acoustic jazz vocal and chesky recordings.
> 
> Back on topic. The Lyr 3 with MB b stock is $650 or amp only for $450. No 4490+ L3 in b stock.
> ...


My two cents is that the separate DAC, either Mimby or Modi 2 Uber provides you with a much more nimble and versatile system, since the cards in teh Lyr3 only have USB input. I drive with Bifrost 4490 into Lyr 3 and I'm happy with IEMs and most of the HP you own, save the 700s, which I haven't heard.


----------



## riffrafff

JamminVMI said:


> My two cents is that the separate DAC, either Mimby or Modi 2 Uber provides you with a much more nimble and versatile system, since the cards in teh Lyr3 only have USB input. I drive with Bifrost 4490 into Lyr 3 and I'm happy with IEMs and most of the HP you own, save the 700s, which I haven't heard.



I would agree with that assertion.   And there's still one Lyr 3 "no card" left in the B-stock column!


----------



## earnmyturns

Zachik said:


> Yes and "kind of".
> Yes - the RDAC has been in my desktop setup.
> Kind-of: I do not have Mimby, and never auditioned it, BUT have the Metrum Amethyst which IMHO is on par (or very close to) Gumby... I did compare Gumby to the Amethyst. So, by extension the RDAC is (IMHO) better than Mimby!


Thanks. You meant "I did compare RDAC to the Amethyst" above, right?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

An album recommendation, listening to Charles Lloyd & the Marvels & Lucinda Williams via the Bluesound>Vinshine>Lyr 3>Utopias, a one-word description is ”haunting.” It's one of the Tidal Masters, so it should be feeding the DAC at 24/96, it's different but its really growing on me!


----------



## Ripper2860

Just listened to that last night.  A very nice album.   Right now, I'm listening to...

Jazz Alert!!!

Artists: Bob James and Nathan East
Album: The New Cool

A really jazz nice duo featuring the venerable Bob James on piano and Nathan East on bass.  Very well recorded studio album.

Recommended.  Well worth a listen

Available on Tidal and Spotify


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Upwhs. Q


Ripper2860 said:


> Just listened to that last night.  A very nice album.   Right now, I'm listening to...
> 
> Jazz Alert!!!
> 
> ...



Great recommendation!


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Yes and "kind of".
> Yes - the RDAC has been in my desktop setup.
> Kind-of: I do not have Mimby, and never auditioned it, BUT have the Metrum Amethyst which IMHO is on par (or very close to) Gumby... I did compare Gumby to the Amethyst. So, by extension the RDAC is (IMHO) better than Mimby!





earnmyturns said:


> Thanks. You meant "I did compare RDAC to the Amethyst" above, right?



Well, both are true actually:
* I did compare Gumby to the Amethyst
* I did compare RDAC to the Amethyst

To my non-golden-ears:
* Gumby and Amethyst sounded extremely close (detail, high and low frequency extension, etc.). Two titans, IMHO.
* RDAC is *a bit* behind Amethyst, but considering 3x price difference - I would say RDAC is the better value!

Hope I managed to clear up the issue


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Just listened to that last night.  A very nice album.   Right now, I'm listening to...
> 
> Jazz Alert!!!
> 
> ...



Lovely album


----------



## earnmyturns

Zachik said:


> Well, both are true actually:
> * I did compare Gumby to the Amethyst
> * I did compare RDAC to the Amethyst
> 
> ...


Thanks! I own 3 resistor array DACs (two discrete -- Holo Spring and Soekris dac1541 -- one integrated -- Schiit Yggdrasil). One issue with discrete R2R DACs is manufacturing variability of the resistors and digital switches in the resistor array. Both Spring and dac1541 have additional arrays to compensate for that variability and for drift. The DAC chips in the Yggy are also carefully designed and manufactured for precision. One concern with cheaper discrete R2R DACs is which corners might have been cut in design and manufacturing, making units highly variable in SQ. It will be interesting to see measurements and impressions when the RDAC goes into industrial production, as I'd imagine that the few pre-release units would have been very carefully tested before they were sent out to key influencers in the community.


----------



## Ripper2860

^^^ AKA Golden Units.


----------



## Slashn77

I see the Lyr 3 is a power BEAST! Crazy how much more powerful it is only SE vs balanced on the Jotunheim!
I plan on using the L3 for my hd700s as well as CA Andromedas which are very sensitive IEMs. 
I see the output impedance at 0.3ohms is very low which is good but has anyone used the L3 with Andromedas? Does it work well or is it too powerful to even touch the volume knob?

Also I read through the Jotunheim thread and some reported slight buzzing noises with their units while others say it is completely silent.
Is the L3 effected by this in a minority of units as well? 

I am looking to buy used so I will not be covered under warranty.


----------



## earnmyturns

Slashn77 said:


> Also I read through the Jotunheim thread and some reported slight buzzing noises with their units while others say it is completely silent.
> Is the L3 effected by this.


Main thing to keep in mind is that the unbalanced RCA inputs to Lyr 3 can pick up hum from power cables. It is important to use the best shielded RCA cables (BlueJeans has great RCA cables) and keep them away from the Lyr 3 power cable. A shielded power cable like the Shunyata Venom can reduce hum further. 

When I had a Jotunheim none of this mattered much because balanced inputs reject hum.


----------



## Slashn77

earnmyturns said:


> Main thing to keep in mind is that the unbalanced RCA inputs to Lyr 3 can pick up hum from power cables. It is important to use the best shielded RCA cables (BlueJeans has great RCA cables) and keep them away from the Lyr 3 power cable. A shielded power cable like the Shunyata Venom can reduce hum further.
> 
> When I had a Jotunheim none of this mattered much because balanced inputs reject hum.


So it is picking up noise via rca cables from a separate connected Dac? So if I get a Lyr with the built in dac I don’t have to worry about this issue?


----------



## earnmyturns

Slashn77 said:


> So it is picking up noise via rca cables from a separate connected Dac? So if I get a Lyr with the built in dac I don’t have to worry about this issue?


I've not used the built-in DAC version, so I don't know for sure, but what I wrote above was based on my experience with a separate DAC.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey All, an album recommendation (Sterephile’s recording of the month), loving it with the Vinshine>Lyr 3 and Utopias. Even if you don’t like classical, this is a Symphonic headbanger .


----------



## Wes S

My Lyr 3 is quiet as a mouse.  Seems like noise would be caused by the tube, if there is any.  If you are getting hum, clean the pins or change the tube.


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 13, 2018)

Wes S said:


> My Lyr 3 is quiet as a mouse.  Seems like noise would be caused by the tube, if there is any.  If you are getting hum, clean the pins or change the tube.



Same here, no noise of any sort.
I recommend a  "child safe" Q-tip (they are fatter  and do a great job - especially with the pin size of the 6SN7 types) and one of the recommended brush-on tube pin cleaning liquids or even iso-propyl, at least 91%. No abrasives.
I've noticed some grime on some of the NOS tubes (not really surprising) I've purchased over the years. Overkill? Isn't that what this hobby is all about?


----------



## 441879

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey All, an album recommendation (Sterephile’s recording of the month), loving it with the Vinshine>Lyr 3 and Utopias. Even if you don’t like classical, this is a Symphonic headbanger .



Another recommendation for the thread:


If you haven’t listened to a well done binaural recording and you like jazz guitar, this one is pretty amazing. Available from a variety of sources up to I think 192/24


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Slashn77 said:


> So it is picking up noise via rca cables from a separate connected Dac? So if I get a Lyr with the built in dac I don’t have to worry about this issue?


hmmm i would be curious to know if your lid and base of the lyr 3 have proper grounding, ive checked mine and i have zero problems with noise over rca. some of the jots have had this issue with the new housing method.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Slashn77 said:


> I see the Lyr 3 is a power BEAST! Crazy how much more powerful it is only SE vs balanced on the Jotunheim!
> I plan on using the L3 for my hd700s as well as CA Andromedas which are very sensitive IEMs.
> I see the output impedance at 0.3ohms is very low which is good but has anyone used the L3 with Andromedas? Does it work well or is it too powerful to even touch the volume knob?
> 
> ...


im sure its the minority of the jots with the issue, but being the lyr3 uses the same mounting method for the lid i would say it could happen. im sure rare though. if u buy new jason has added a step to specifically teat for this exact issue, used there may be no way to know and the warranty doesnt transfer. maybe look at the b stock on their site. i bought a couple things and im pretty ocd and they are spotless, this way you still get the warranty on it and those units im sure have now been tested for this issue.


----------



## earnmyturns

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> hmmm i would be curious to know if your lid and base of the lyr 3 have proper grounding, ive checked mine and i have zero problems with noise over rca. some of the jots have had this issue with the new housing method.


Not sure if you are referring to my comments, but in my case, the only (faint) hum I had at some point, in high gain, with volume past the 1pm position and quiet background, was caused by having the RCA cables cross the Schiit-supplied power cable with no separation. Even replacing the power cable with the Shunyata Venom cable I had around reduced the hum, but lifting the RCA cables to cross the power cable with 3in separation was enough to get rid of that faint hum totally. So, not, in the situation I described it had nothing to do with case grounding.


----------



## Slashn77

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> im sure its the minority of the jots with the issue, but being the lyr3 uses the same mounting method for the lid i would say it could happen. im sure rare though. if u buy new jason has added a step to specifically teat for this exact issue, used there may be no way to know and the warranty doesnt transfer. maybe look at the b stock on their site. i bought a couple things and im pretty ocd and they are spotless, this way you still get the warranty on it and those units im sure have now been tested for this issue.


I have been thinking about that but the MB dac for b stock might not be worth it from what I’ve read. I am not a critical listener I listen for enjoyment. I actually ruled out the Jotunheim so it is between L3 or Questyle cma 400i used.

I am also considering the woo Wa7 fireflies tube amp since it has came down to $799 from $1200. 
Has anyone had experience with both of these amp and dacs? 

I do like that the L3 is cheaper even if I get the MB L3 and I can use SS tubes when gaming but the WA7d looks so pretty but I have heard the Dac isn’t that great compared to other dac amp combos in the price range


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

earnmyturns said:


> Not sure if you are referring to my comments, but in my case, the only (faint) hum I had at some point, in high gain, with volume past the 1pm position and quiet background, was caused by having the RCA cables cross the Schiit-supplied power cable with no separation. Even replacing the power cable with the Shunyata Venom cable I had around reduced the hum, but lifting the RCA cables to cross the power cable with 3in separation was enough to get rid of that faint hum totally. So, not, in the situation I described it had nothing to do with case grounding.


ahh. gotcha. i wasnt sure i figured it was worth a mention. that doesnt sound like the issue.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

personally after owning and selling the 400i between those i kept the lyr3. as far as the wa7, build quality wise it is very nice. overall it was a decent very nice sounding tube amp but imo much better can be found for not a ton more. i auditioned the wa7 a friend owns and its a nice amp. at 799$ not bad at all. i wouldnt say its worth the full normal asking price with the tube psu though just from my listening. and i also agree the dac is average imo. its not terrible but not stellar either. once you hit that 1k range a whole lot of stuff becomes "not to much more" though hahaha. as far as the lyr3 goes i honestly think if they put this thing in a bigger chassis and charged more for it people would still buy it. its honestly a damn good amp especially for the price. my lyr3 doesnt have any dac built in and i prefer generally not to have them built in unless its where i need an all in one. this way options are much more open to pairing an amp to a dac. the wa7 does look sexy as hell though lol in person.


----------



## Slashn77

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> personally after owning and selling the 400i between those i kept the lyr3. as far as the wa7, build quality wise it is very nice. overall it was a decent very nice sounding tube amp but imo much better can be found for not a ton more. i auditioned the wa7 a friend owns and its a nice amp. at 799$ not bad at all. i wouldnt say its worth the full normal asking price with the tube psu though just from my listening. and i also agree the dac is average imo. its not terrible but not stellar either. once you hit that 1k range a whole lot of stuff becomes "not to much more" though hahaha. as far as the lyr3 goes i honestly think if they put this thing in a bigger chassis and charged more for it people would still buy it. its honestly a damn good amp especially for the price. my lyr3 doesnt have any dac built in and i prefer generally not to have them built in unless its where i need an all in one. this way options are much more open to pairing an amp to a dac. the wa7 does look sexy as hell though lol in person.


If I get a Lyr 3 amp only what is the common DAC to get without going crazy? A Mimby?(which is same thing as getting a MB card)
$300 new or used on a Dac would be the most I would want to spend


----------



## FLTWS

earnmyturns said:


> Not sure if you are referring to my comments, but in my case, the only (faint) hum I had at some point, in high gain, with volume past the 1pm position and quiet background, was caused by having the RCA cables cross the Schiit-supplied power cable with no separation. Even replacing the power cable with the Shunyata Venom cable I had around reduced the hum, but lifting the RCA cables to cross the power cable with 3in separation was enough to get rid of that faint hum totally. So, not, in the situation I described it had nothing to do with case grounding.



I agree. I've always been fussy about dressing wires to keep AC, IC, and digital signal carrying cables as far apart as possible (and 3" is a good minimum) and getting different lengths of (AC especially) cables to minimize any coiling, folding, or crossing . Schiit's designs help by keeping AC connections on the R rear and in/out signals on the L rear. I also prefer balanced over SE between components so that may have impact as well. I've yet to experience any hum, hiss, sizzling, snap, crackle, or pop with any of my gear including the non Schiit pieces. I don't think the small signal cables emit much of a field but AC cables in close proximity to signal carrying cables might be.

Works for me.


----------



## Wes S

FLTWS said:


> I agree. I've always been fussy about dressing wires to keep AC, IC, and digital signal carrying cables as far apart as possible (and 3" is a good minimum) and getting different lengths of (AC especially) cables to minimize any coiling, folding, or crossing . Schiit's designs help by keeping AC connections on the R rear and in/out signals on the L rear. I also prefer balanced over SE between components so that may have impact as well. I've yet to experience any hum, hiss, sizzling, snap, crackle, or pop with any of my gear including the non Schiit pieces. I don't think the small signal cables emit much of a field but AC cables in close proximity to signal carrying cables might be.
> 
> Works for me.


Heck of a setup!


----------



## FLTWS

Wes S said:


> Heck of a setup!



Thanks, I've got a Rogue RH-5 sitting off to the left on a separate stand.


----------



## Slashn77

FLTWS said:


> I agree. I've always been fussy about dressing wires to keep AC, IC, and digital signal carrying cables as far apart as possible (and 3" is a good minimum) and getting different lengths of (AC especially) cables to minimize any coiling, folding, or crossing . Schiit's designs help by keeping AC connections on the R rear and in/out signals on the L rear. I also prefer balanced over SE between components so that may have impact as well. I've yet to experience any hum, hiss, sizzling, snap, crackle, or pop with any of my gear including the non Schiit pieces. I don't think the small signal cables emit much of a field but AC cables in close proximity to signal carrying cables might be.
> 
> Works for me.


Amazing setup!

What RCA cables are you using?


----------



## FLTWS

Slashn77 said:


> Amazing setup!
> 
> What RCA cables are you using?



The only RCA's are to the Jot and LYR3, all the rest are balanced, and  all are Dana Cable Reference.
But I'm working on setting up a  bedroom HP rig and I think I'll be going with Straight Wire, just to be different, and I've already got a bunch of it, very good quality and price.
The best low cost cabling option I have is Blue Jeans.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

im still a dealer for a handful of car audio brands so ive been using the higher end stinger stuff of late for rca's works awesome for home use also.


----------



## tafens

Finally got a Lyr3 on order (multibit DAC), russian 6N8S and Tung-Sol 6SN7 

While browsing tubes, I have seen available in tube stores the Northern Electric 6SN7, with a larger/pear-shaped bottle (new production). At $90-ish, it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Tung-Sol. Has anyone tried it with the Lyr3? Is it worth the price?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 30, 2018)

tafens said:


> Finally got a Lyr3 on order (multibit DAC), russian 6N8S and Tung-Sol 6SN7
> 
> While browsing tubes, I have seen available in tube stores the Northern Electric 6SN7, with a larger/pear-shaped bottle (new production). At $90-ish, it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Tung-Sol. Has anyone tried it with the Lyr3? Is it worth the price?


I bought a couple of those for my dragon, I would skip them.

Lots of really good NOS glass to be had for that price (or less), like the Russian '50s Foton or Ken Rad VT231 black glass.   On the cheaper side of things is the Westinghouse D getter.  Those are just a little hard to find is all, but you can usually find them at or under $50.


----------



## FLTWS

tafens said:


> Finally got a Lyr3 on order (multibit DAC), russian 6N8S and Tung-Sol 6SN7
> 
> While browsing tubes, I have seen available in tube stores the Northern Electric 6SN7, with a larger/pear-shaped bottle (new production). At $90-ish, it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Tung-Sol. Has anyone tried it with the Lyr3? Is it worth the price?



Last time I checked they were out of stock.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 31, 2018)

tafens said:


> Finally got a Lyr3 on order (multibit DAC), russian 6N8S and Tung-Sol 6SN7
> 
> While browsing tubes, I have seen available in tube stores the Northern Electric 6SN7, with a larger/pear-shaped bottle (new production). At $90-ish, it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Tung-Sol. Has anyone tried it with the Lyr3? Is it worth the price?


Heck, I have a 1951 Foton ribbed (for her pleasure) black plate tube I would let go for $50 plus shipping.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> Heck, I have a 1951 Foton ribbed (for her pleasure) black plate tube I would let go for $50 plus shipping.


Nice! I just took delivery of 2 of the very same tube, from 51.  They are cool looking tubes, but I am not sure I want to touch my 52' Sylvania, as it is fully burned in and wonderful sounding.  We will see, if I give in, to the tube rolling temptation this weekend.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wow.  If the image were any larger, we would see the atomic structure of the materials making up the plates.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 31, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  If the image were any larger, we would see the atomic structure of the materials making up the plates.


Yep!  No doubt, that is a foton. . .and a really nicely balanced(triodes) one, at that.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 31, 2018)

Wes S said:


> Yep!  No doubt, that is a foton. . .and a really nicely balanced(triodes) one, at that.


Wishing it didn't have a little crack in the base, but it doesn't affect the tube, so...

Anyway, since I just noticed the little crack, I'd go $40 if anyone wants it.   Otherwise it will remain my backup Foton.

Edit - Sorry for the huge pics.   Edited and fixed. 

Edit 2 - Also, I know this isn't the For Sale forum.  I'm just offering this up to the regulars of this thread because of the synergy of this tube with the Lyr 3.  I'm perfectly happy keeping it, and if it offends you that I've done this...  tough titty said the kitty when the milk ran out.  Quit sending me PMs about how butthurt you are about it.  I literally don't care.

Edit 3 - Fine.  You freaking win.  I'll keep it for myself instead of sharing, now leave me alone.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> Wishing it didn't have a little crack in the base, but it doesn't affect the tube, so...
> 
> Anyway, since I just noticed the little crack, I'd go $40 if anyone wants it.   Otherwise it will remain my backup Foton.
> 
> ...


I have found that most of the tubes, I have had with cracked bases, are the ones with the tightest glass.   So, good for you, for keeping it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 31, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> Also, I know this isn't the For Sale forum. I'm just offering this up to the regulars of this thread because of the synergy of this tube with the Lyr 3. I'm perfectly happy keeping it, and if it offends you that I've done this... tough titty said the kitty when the milk ran out. Quit sending me PMs about how butthurt you are about it. I literally don't care.





ProfFalkin said:


> You freaking win. I'll keep it for myself instead of sharing, now leave me alone.



ROFL!!!!  

That was a rather quick transition from semi-belligerent non-conformer to absolute and utter defeat.  

(For the record -- I never PM'ed)


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> ROFL!!!!
> 
> That was a rather quick transition from semi-belligerent non-conformer to absolute and utter defeat.
> 
> (For the record -- I never PM'ed)


There is only so much stupid I can deal with.


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> There is only so much stupid I can deal with.


Thank god I did not PM either, therefore the "stupid" comment has nothing to do with me!!!


----------



## tafens

ProfFalkin said:


> Heck, I have a 1951 Foton ribbed (for her pleasure) black plate tube I would let go for $50 plus shipping.



That’s a very fine looking tube there! Thanks for the nice offer, but I think I should get to know the amp and the tubes that come with it before I go down that tube rolling path..  (and also let the wallet recover from the amp purchase )


----------



## ProfFalkin

tafens said:


> That’s a very fine looking tube there! Thanks for the nice offer, but I think I should get to know the amp and the tubes that come with it before I go down that tube rolling path..  (and also let the wallet recover from the amp purchase )


That's wise.


----------



## Rapid7

Can I possibly ask two stupid questions?

Using the Lyr 3 with the internal multibit dac at a volume setting of 9 o'clock why is it when I switch from the internal multibit dac and use my Bifrost as the dac the Lyr 3 volume is way louder at 9 o'clock ?

In the manual it states 40-45 seconds before your hear sound but mine takes 70-80 seconds to hear sound ?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Rapid7 said:


> Can I possibly ask two stupid questions?
> 
> Using the Lyr 3 with the internal multibit dac at a volume setting of 9 o'clock why is it when I switch from the internal multibit dac and use my Bifrost as the dac the Lyr 3 volume is way louder at 9 o'clock ?
> 
> In the manual it states 40-45 seconds before your hear sound but mine takes 70-80 seconds to hear sound ?


The Modi Multibit, Bifrost and Bimby models all use full 2V outs on the RCA jacks.   The internal card is probably at 1.5V like the Modi 2 and Modi 2 Uber.   

That's the only plausible explanation I can come up with.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 31, 2018)

@ProfFalkin -- I heard you might be wanting to sell a 1951 Foton ribbed plate (for her pleasure) tube.  I may be interested if that's the case.  Can you post up some really big pics and how much you want for it?  Be sure to post here, though.  My PM isn't really receiving messages right now.    



I'm sorry.  I'm still laughing about the sudden turn-about.  Been there, my friend.  More times than I can count!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Aug 31, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> @ProfFalkin -- I heard you might be wanting to sell a 1951 Foton ribbed plate (for her pleasure) tube.  I may be interested if that's the case.  Can you could post up some really big pics and how much you want for it?  Be sure to post here, though as my PM isn't really receiving messages right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.  I'm still laughing about the sudden turn-about.  Been there, my friend.  More times than I can count!


I'm really glad you asked!  I do indeed have one I was considering selling at one time.   Please see attached photos.  

(Finger provided for scale...)






 








Price has increased due to supply and demand.   $150.99.   Sorry.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> I'm really glad you asked!  I do indeed have one I was considering selling at one time.   Please see attached photos.
> 
> (Finger provided for scale...)
> 
> ...


Laughed my ass off!  Thanks for that!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 31, 2018)

ROFL!!!!!!   



ProfFalkin said:


> Price has increased due to supply and demand. $150.99. Sorry.



Oh, so it's a WH D getter and not a Foton??


----------



## ProfFalkin

Totally off topic, and unrelated to the Lyr 3...    a new Audeze headphone being live streamed on Amazon.com.    Stream starts in 10 min.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> ROFL!!!!!!
> 
> Oh, so it's a WH D getter and not a Foton??



No, it's a Russian Bad Boy.


----------



## Ripper2860

Ahhhh.  A 6H8C Putin tube.  Can't say I've ever seen one before.


----------



## JamminVMI

Slashn77 said:


> If I get a Lyr 3 amp only what is the common DAC to get without going crazy? A Mimby?(which is same thing as getting a MB card)
> $300 new or used on a Dac would be the most I would want to spend


Mimby (IMHO) not the same as the multibit dard, since you get two extra inputs S/PDIF coax and toslink as opposeto the card’s USB only. At least I don’t think that’s a wash...


----------



## riffrafff

JamminVMI said:


> Mimby (IMHO) not the same as the multibit dard, since you get two extra inputs S/PDIF coax and toslink as opposeto the card’s USB only. At least I don’t think that’s a wash...



There is that advantage.  Plus, some have stated that they prefer the Mimby to the multibit card, sound-wise (I have no experience with the cards).   I use my Mimby with an Eitr, so, yeah, I'd not be able to do that with an USB-only card.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 31, 2018)

And a separate shielded enclosure.  And a separate external power supply.  

IMHO -- skip the MB card and go the Mimby.


Oh -- and EITR rocks, so leave the option for one open.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ripper2860 said:


> And a separate shielded enclosure.  And a separate external power supply.
> 
> IMHO -- skip the MB card and go the Mimby.
> 
> ...


Haven’t tried Eitr, squeezebox players output either S/PDIF... Which means the card wouldn’t work at all...


----------



## ProfFalkin

My Lyr 3 has a MB card in it.

I use the Mimby anyway.  

It sounds better.   Especially since they've upgraded the firmware to V2.


----------



## showme99

ProfFalkin said:


> My Lyr 3 has a MB card in it.
> 
> I use the Mimby anyway.
> 
> It sounds better.   Especially since they've upgraded the firmware to V2.


I didn’t know that there was a firmware upgrade. Did they announce this somewhere? Any patch notes on what was changed?


----------



## ProfFalkin

showme99 said:


> I didn’t know that there was a firmware upgrade. Did they announce this somewhere? Any patch notes on what was changed?


There is a bunch of information about it on another site I cannot name.


----------



## tafens

ProfFalkin said:


> My Lyr 3 has a MB card in it.
> I use the Mimby anyway.



I ordered mine with MB card, mostly because convenience. What would you say is the main difference between the card and Mimby, sound-wise?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 1, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> There is a bunch of information about it on another site I cannot name.



How current is v2?  When was it released?  Would a mimby I bought from Schiit less that 1 year ago have v2?


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> How current is v2?  When was it released?  Would a mimby I bought from Schiit less that 1 year ago have v2?


It's not clear when the first v2's hit the market, what I read suggested early 2018. The only way to know for sure seems to be to measure carefully with lab gear most of us do not own.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm.   Time to send an e-mail to  the fine folks at Schiit.  Perhaps they can tell by S/N and have a process for upgrading for a fee.

Thanks!!


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.   Time to send an e-mail to  the fine folks at Schiit.  Perhaps they can tell by S/N and have a process for upgrading for a fee.


Their policy is to upgrade firmware when any DAC comes in for service.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Send me a private message if you are curious about how to tell if you have V1 or V2. I'll send you a link to the instructions on how to tell.  Posting the link publicly will get the post removed.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 1, 2018)

^^^ I've seen the instructions.  Simpletons need not apply.  

Mimby Firmware is in a socketed DIP package according to those that shall not be named here.  If that's the case, it would be REAL nice if we could buy the V2 DIP chip and self-install -- at our own risk, of course.  

I know it's technically not sold as 'upgradable' and it's not touted as 'user serviceable', but Whaddaya think @Jason Stoddard ?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Sep 1, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> ^^^ I've seen the instructions.  Simpletons need not apply.
> 
> Mimby Firmware is in a socketed DIP package according to those that shall not be named here.  If that's the case, it would be REAL nice if we could buy the V2 DIP chip and self-install -- at our own risk, of course.
> 
> I know it's technically not sold as 'upgradable' and it's not touted as 'user serviceable', but Whaddaya think @Jason Stoddard ?


I think he's going to tell you that you can break your schiit anyway you want, so long as you know it voids your warranty.

=P    hehehe

Mine is a V2.  I did the testing atomicbob advised.  if you want to know the difference between the built-in multi-bit card and the Mimby, it's rather straight forward.   A little extra staging, the slightest bit more detail, and a whole lot more inputs.  Other than that they sound real similar.  Tonally, they are almost identical.  Personally, I think it's worth the extra 50 bucks.  But don't get me wrong the built-in card is just fine.


----------



## Zachik

My personal take on MB card vs. external DAC:
If desk real estate and minimizing cables is your #1 concern - go with MB card.
If you're willing to have extra RCA cables and willing to have 2 components instead of 1 --> get external DAC!

BTW, depending on one's budget, there are much better external DACs (IMHO)... 
Personally, I would get Lyr 3 without DAC, save a few extra dollars, and get a better DAC!


----------



## Ripper2860

Heresy!   Absolute heresy!  You are in LIKE TIME OUT for 24 hours. Now you take that time to  think on your actions today.


----------



## Ripper2860

ProfFalkin said:


> I think he's going to tell you that you can break your schiit anyway you want, so long as you know it voids your warranty.
> 
> =P    hehehe
> 
> Mine is a V2.  I did the testing atomicbob advised.  if you want to know the difference between the built-in multi-bit card and the Mimby, it's rather straight forward.   A little extra staging, the slightest bit more detail, and a whole lot more inputs.  Other than that they sound real similar.  Tonally, they are almost identical.  Personally, I think it's worth the extra 50 bucks.  But don't get me wrong the built-in card is just fine.



But will he sell the V2 firmware DIP?


----------



## ProfFalkin

I bet he'll let you send it in for an upgrade.


----------



## Ripper2860

Fingers crossed.  

But the thought of having to do without it while it's being upgraded is tough.  I guess I could use my CA DacMagic 100 for a couple of weeks.  **



** It's really not that bad, but it ain't no Mimby!!


----------



## riffrafff

Ripper2860 said:


> Fingers crossed.
> 
> But the thought of having to do without it while it's being upgraded is tough.  I guess I could use my CA DacMagic 100 for a couple of weeks.  **
> 
> ** It's really not that bad, but it ain't no Mimby!!



Arrrgh.  I'd have to go back to my Cayin N3 whilst the Mimby was away (the N3 is the only other DAC I have).   Gah.  Poop, even.    

(And what really sucks is that I upgrade firmware most every day at work.)


----------



## Wes S (Sep 2, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> My Lyr 3 has a MB card in it.
> 
> I use the Mimby anyway.
> 
> It sounds better.   Especially since they've upgraded the firmware to V2.


So.  How do you know?  What is the test, to determine, if my mimby is v2?  I just bought mine 2 weeks ago, so I would think I have the latest version?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 2, 2018)

Finding out is an electronical quagmire requiring test gear, expertise, a sacrificial chicken, and a Santeria Priestess.

You, however, should be just fine -- my understanding is v2 came out in early 2018.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Finding out is an electronical quagmire requiring test gear, expertise, a sacrificial chicken, and a Santeria Priestess.
> 
> You, however, should be just fine -- my understanding is v2 came out in early 2018.


Sometimes being late to the party, pays off!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Wes S said:


> Sometimes being late to the party, pays off!


You're fine.  PM sent.


----------



## Ripper2860

I don't see a PM in my inbox.  I guess I'm not special ...


----------



## riffrafff

Ordered my Mimby on April 29th, 2018.  Maybe I have a v2?


----------



## ProfFalkin

riffrafff said:


> Ordered my Mimby on April 29th, 2018.  Maybe I have a v2?


Probably


----------



## bryceu

Hey all, can anyone allude to some differences I might notice when switching from my Valhalla 2 to a Lyr 3?  I'm using HD6xx and Fidelio X2 HPs. The 6xx sound amazing on the Valhalla but the X2 not so much hence why I'm looking to switch to a hybrid. I have a Magni 3 that I was planning to get rid of but I feel the X2 sound better on there than on the Valhalla 2. The 6xx seem to sound amazing on the Valhalla 2 but kinda a bummer that I can't utilize it fully with both cans. Will the X2 see a lot of improvement with the switch, and will the 6xx see any decrease in 'performance'/synergy? Also if I opt for the 4490 DAC built-in with the Lyr 3 is that essentially the same DAC as the Modi 2? Thanks in advance


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 2, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> I bet he'll let you send it in for an upgrade.



Got an e-mail back from Laura at Schiit Customer Service.  No-go on upgrading to v2 on Mimby.  If it ain't on their list of upgrades available on the site, then the answer is no.

Maybe Jason will step-in and do a limited time offer for the Head-fi crowd.  Although the response is  what I expected, it is disappointing none-the-less.  Hell, I'd even pay them do it. 

BTW -- I bought mine on 1/24/18, so odds are it's a v1.)


----------



## ProfFalkin

Looking at it from their point of view, it is understandable.   They have several hundred Yggy2 upgrades in queue.  I also don't think that they're staffed to do firmware upgrades on a couple thousand DACs.   

Let's just say that they bring on three new people just to handle the upgrades.  Given the cost of employment in California, the time it would take all of them to handle the upgrade requests, etc... It could cost them a couple hundred thousand.   If they did the firmware upgrades at their cost, it could be upwards of $75-$100 per update on a non-upgradeable DAC.   Yes, I used fuzzy logic to arrive to that conclusion, but I don't think it's an unrealistic figure.   

Basically it just doesn't make sense for them to do the updates on their end, and it doesn't make sense for us to pay that much for such an inexpensive product on our end.

As an alternative, perhaps it would be best to sell your Mimby and buy a new one.  I bet you can do that for under a $50 loss.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 2, 2018)

Will you please stop applying logic to a highly charged emotional issue??!! Do you really expect a guy who has bought 47 tubes in the 90 days since buying his Lyr 3 to exhibit any inclination towards logic!!  Come on now!!  

(Yeah -- I'll likely sell it and buy a new one or keep it and just pretend I don't hear the flaws I now know exist and were fixed with the new firmware.)


----------



## skyline315

Two thoughts:

1) I have an OG Mimby. It sounds great. Nervosa can jump off a cliff for all I care.

2) This discussion may be best left to the Modi MB thread.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Skyline is right.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 2, 2018)

What??  There's a Modi MB thread??!!  

Actually, I'm quite happy with my Mimby and it's just an interim step to one of Schiit's higher-end model in the future.  I do not have the most acute hearing and likely would not notice a difference between v1 and v2 anyway.

Have I mentioned how much I love my Lyr 3?  Even though I had a Magni 3 to use while Lyr 3 was off being serviced, I just could not really enjoy the Magni 3 after having been exposed to Lyr 3.  Many nights I just came home and either worked on the computer or watched TV.  That never happens with Lyr 3 -- as soon as I get home, I eat dinner and then retire to listen to the sultry sounds of my impeccably rendered Jazz recordings via Mimby v1 and Lyr 3.   
​


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> as soon as I get home, I eat dinner and then retire to listen to the sultry sounds of my impeccably rendered Jazz recordings via Mimby v1 and Lyr 2.


You're in the wrong thread then man.   Lyr 2 thread is that way.   *Points in a random direction*


----------



## Ripper2860

Typo.  Now corrected.


----------



## ProfFalkin

In different news, I just got a D getter Westinghouse tube that is completely different than the WH-D I've been using this whole time.

Very short bottle.  Reliatron labeled.  Staggered black plates.  Will find out on Tuesday if it sounds any different.


----------



## Ripper2860

I purchased 2 short bottle Reliatron WH D getter tubes as youve described from Brent Jesse.  As far as I can tell, the sonic attributes are the same as the tall bottles.  Of course your ears and HPs may be more revealing, but as far as I'm concerned, they are the same.  Curious to see what you think, however.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> In different news, I just got a D getter Westinghouse tube that is completely different than the WH-D I've been using this whole time.
> 
> Very short bottle.  Reliatron labeled.  Staggered black plates.  Will find out on Tuesday if it sounds any different.


Interesting.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ripper2860 said:


> I purchased 2 short bottle Reliatron WH D getter tubes as youve described from Brent Jesse.  As far as I can tell, the sonic attributes are the same as the tall bottles.  Of course your ears and HPs may be more revealing, but as far as I'm concerned, they are the same.  Curious to see what you think, however.


Wow, how many tubes do you have now for that little amp?  Anyway, let us know your top choices after a few months of evaluation so that we can go right to the goal


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> I purchased 2 short bottle Reliatron WH D getter tubes as youve described from Brent Jesse.  As far as I can tell, the sonic attributes are the same as the tall bottles.  Of course your ears and HPs may be more revealing, but as far as I'm concerned, they are the same.  Curious to see what you think, however.



Me too. Also, is there a difference in the sonics between a Westinghouse “Reliatron” labelled 6SN7 and a “standard” Westinghouse tube labelled with “Electron tube” instead?


----------



## ProfFalkin

tafens said:


> Me too. Also, is there a difference in the sonics between a Westinghouse “Reliatron” labelled 6SN7 and a “standard” Westinghouse tube labelled with “Electron tube” instead?


There are some Westinghouse tubes that have Halo getters.  If you are including those, then yes.  I only spent a brief amount of time with one but it does sound different.  It's not bad different, but it is different with my preference easily going towards the D getter.

The difference between the tall and short bottle D getter tubes... that I have no idea, but I'm fixing to find out!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 3, 2018)

tafens said:


> Me too. Also, is there a difference in the sonics between a Westinghouse “Reliatron” labelled 6SN7 and a “standard” Westinghouse tube labelled with “Electron tube” instead?



To my ears, the Electron and Reliatron variants of tall bottle, black, staggered, ladder plate, D getter tubes sound the same.  I have a D getter '59 tall bottle Reliatron and a '60 tall bottle Electron D getter and cannot tell a difference.  I suspect in 1960 they were transitioning to Halo getter version and there were both D and Halo in Electron Tube marked bases.  Remember, the base is not put on until after the tube has been made.  Tubes can sit for months or years before they are mounted to a base and inscribed.  The base inscription is not always the ultimate determination of a tube's lineage.    


Note: As an example, I have a Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle tube with the classic racetrack mica, additional support rod, top chrome flashing extending down approx. 1/2 of the tube, and the classic W etched on the tube top.  This tube, however, is mounted on a base labelled as a 6SN7GT.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> To my ears, the Electron and Reliatron variants of tall bottle, black, staggered, ladder plate, D getter tubes sound the same.  I have a D getter '59 tall bottle Reliatron and a '60 tall bottle Electron D getter and cannot tell a difference.  I suspect in 1960 they were transitioning to Halo getter version and there were both D and Halo in Electron Tube marked bases.  Remember, the base is not put on until after the tube has been made.  Tubes can sit for months or years before they are mounted to a base.  The base inscription is not always the ultimate detetmination of a tube.



Thanks for the info! I'm quite new at this tube-thing (tube-fi?), but trying to learn 
I thought perhaps "Reliatron" signified a tube with a longer life span.
Anyway, if I'm looking for a D-getter WH (which seems to be the important thing), it would be more likely on a pre-1960 tube.

Of what I've read here and in the Lyr3 tube rolling thread there are a few tubes that should be on my short list:
* Westinghouse 6SN7, D-getter (Reliatron labelling not needed, but perhaps a bonus)
* Ken-Rad VT231
* 1950's 6N8S Foton
* 6H8C MELZ (maybe)

I'm about one third through reading the Lyr3 tube rolling thread, and loving every minute of it - not only is it interesting, you guys have great synergy over there


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 3, 2018)

Welcome to our madness!!  We all get along fabulously because we all share the same 'passion'!!  (OK, sickness/obsession.)

Your list definitely highlights the 'must haves' for Lyr 3, IMHO.  You can scratch the the Melz (non-hole plates) from your list since you have the Foton on your list -- just make sure they are ribbed, black t-plate version Fotons ('51-'55).  If you are talking about the Melz hole-plate version, then you sir are much more affluent (or crazier) than I, as I would not spend that much on a tube.  

A few you may wish to add (assuming straight-up 6SN7 and no adapters) are …

40's Sylvania 6SN7W (tall or short bottle)  ** expensive but you can find the occasional DEAL!
52/53 Sylvania 6SN7GT 3-hole Bad Boy tube
52/53 Sylvania 6SN7 GT/GTA true Chrome Dome
40's Sylvania VT-231

Of course these are based on my opinion only, but do represent some of my fav's in addition you your list!!!!

(Note:  You can find some of these branded as Philco or Magnavox -  if they have a 312 MFG code on the base they are Sylvies, and for a lot less $$$)

Have fun and don't blame us if you become obsessed with this hobby.  BTW -- once you have these, then we can talk adapters and other forms of tubes!!!   

(Oh and stay away for @bcowen .  The man will bankrupt you!!!   )


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Welcome to our madness!!  We all get along fabulously because we all share the same 'passion'!!  (OK, sickness/obsession.)
> 
> Your list definitely highlights the 'must haves' for Lyr 3, IMHO.  You can scratch the the Melz (non-hole plates) from your list since you have the Foton on your list -- just make sure they are ribbed 50's black t-plate version Fotons ('51-'55).  If you are talking about the Melz hole-plate version, then you sir are much more affluent (or crazier) than I, as I would not spend that much on a tube.
> 
> ...



That's not fair. I'm totally harmless. But @tafens, you definitely need to get at least a couple of these. Always need one to listen to and a spare or two (dozen).


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> I'm really glad you asked!  I do indeed have one I was considering selling at one time.   Please see attached photos.
> 
> (Finger provided for scale...)
> 
> ...



LMAO!!!

I too know this isn't the For Sale forum, but as I haven't received any PM's in a while I'll go ahead and offer up a _PAIR_ of '51's for $150.99. At that price shipping will have to be additional though. Just don't ask for any pictures 'cause I doubt I can still hold onto the tube with my finger sticking out.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

Headfonia published their Lyr 3 review:
https://www.headfonia.com/review-schiit-audio-lyr-3/


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Have fun and don't blame us if you become obsessed with this hobby.  BTW -- once you have these, then we can talk adapters and other forms of tubes!!!



Adapters... like in available tube selection increasing by orders of magnitude..?
I’m doomed 

Seriously though, I will be looking for a noval-
to-octal adapter at least, because I actually have a couple of those tubes already (one Siemens E188CC and one 6N1P Voskhod Rocket). Can’t let them go unused now, can I? 
I have them because I was very close to buying a Vali2 just before the Magni3 was released. I ended up ordering said Magni3 and a ModiMB instead, but before I changed course I had already bought a couple of tubes on eBay.. (it’s always good to be prepared, no?.. but this time I’ll at least wait until I have the amp in my hands - which is going to be soon, it’s in the mail and I have the tracking info!)

Thanks for the additional 6SN7 tube tips!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 4, 2018)

tafens said:


> Seriously though, I will be looking for a noval-
> to-octal adapter at least, because I actually have a couple of those tubes already (one Siemens E188CC and one 6N1P Voskhod Rocket). Can’t let them go unused now, can I?





tafens said:


> Thanks for the additional 6SN7 tube tips!



And so it begins...


----------



## musicfrommemory

Hi Everyone,

Took ownership of a Lyr 3 with Multibit and the stock Russian tube and the Tung Sol. I own both a pair of LCD2Cs and a pair of Aeon Opens. I'm generally very impressed with the Lyr 3 - for the Aeon Opens especially it has opened them up and added an extra element of liquidity to the sound. I feel though that the Lyr 3 is ever-so-slightly bright for my tastes - this is not a criticism because the injection of all the other goodness offsets this but I would nevertheless like to go a degree warmer and wanted some thoughts on how to achieve this - my set up is MBP->Tidal->Lyr 3 (out of the two tubes I prefer the stock Russian as to my ears it's ever-so-slightly less bright.) 

I've read the entire thread here and collated everyone's opinions on the tubes and their sonic signatures and I appreciate that, according to some, the tubes may only have a slight effect on the output, but I'm keen to give it a go, because, well, it's part of the fun.

So top of my list is the Ken Rad but finding this in the UK is a little tricky so I've opted for an 6SN7GT VT231 VINTAGE RCA NOS (photo below) which arrives soon - I'll report in when I hear it, but from what I understand the RCA gives some temperature to the mids and low end.

Be keen to hear your thoughts on extra warmth even if just anecdotal.

Also, quick question: does it matter if I switch the Lyr 3 on if it's not connected to (in this case) my MBP, i.e., it's just switched on at the mains, unconnected to anything else, and only after a while connect it all up and jump into the listening?

 

Big thanks,

MFM


----------



## antoramp (Sep 5, 2018)

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Took ownership of a Lyr 3 with Multibit and the stock Russian tube and the Tung Sol. I own both a pair of LCD2Cs and a pair of Aeon Opens. I'm generally very impressed with the Lyr 3 - for the Aeon Opens especially it has opened them up and added an extra element of liquidity to the sound. I feel though that the Lyr 3 is ever-so-slightly bright for my tastes - this is not a criticism because the injection of all the other goodness offsets this but I would nevertheless like to go a degree warmer and wanted some thoughts on how to achieve this - my set up is MBP->Tidal->Lyr 3 (out of the two tubes I prefer the stock Russian as to my ears it's ever-so-slightly less bright.)
> 
> ...


You can add the Schiit Audio Loki Mini in your setup and tune the sound into your preferences


----------



## ProfFalkin

musicfrommemory said:


> Also, quick question: does it matter if I switch the Lyr 3 on if it's not connected to (in this case) my MBP, i.e., it's just switched on at the mains, unconnected to anything else, and only after a while connect it all up and jump into the listening?


You can do this, yes.   Just make sure to turn the amp off when connecting anything.   Otherwise, there is nothing wrong than having it connected to nothing but the power to warm up the tube, as far as I know.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 5, 2018)

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Took ownership of a Lyr 3 with Multibit and the stock Russian tube and the Tung Sol. I own both a pair of LCD2Cs and a pair of Aeon Opens. I'm generally very impressed with the Lyr 3 - for the Aeon Opens especially it has opened them up and added an extra element of liquidity to the sound. I feel though that the Lyr 3 is ever-so-slightly bright for my tastes - this is not a criticism because the injection of all the other goodness offsets this but I would nevertheless like to go a degree warmer and wanted some thoughts on how to achieve this - my set up is MBP->Tidal->Lyr 3 (out of the two tubes I prefer the stock Russian as to my ears it's ever-so-slightly less bright.)
> 
> ...



Head on over to the Schiit Lyr 3 Tube Rolling thread. Lots of great information... maybe too much.  Just beware of @Ripper2860 over there. As soon as someone speaks favorably about a particular tube, he buys up every last existing one on the planet.  

I have the Aeon Opens as well Closed and the Lyr 3 mates up very nicely with them.

Edit: I have the Aeon closed, not Open 'phones.


----------



## Ripper2860

Nah.  I'm set.  I  haven't bought a tube in like 10 days now.  

@bcowen -- I thought you had the AFCs?


----------



## FLTWS

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone, ...
> 
> So top of my list is the Ken Rad but finding this in the UK is a little tricky so I've opted for an 6SN7GT VT231 VINTAGE RCA NOS (photo below) which arrives soon - I'll report in when I hear it, but from what I understand the RCA gives some temperature to the mids and low end.
> 
> ...



I have 2 of the RCA 6SN7's.
RCA 6SN7GTB, USA 56 52, staggered blackplates, side getter, 1956 short clear bottle
RCA 6SN7GT, USA 213, greyglass, staggered blackplates, 1952
Both are a warm sounding tube and uniquely different from they other 20 some 6SN7 types I have currently.
And it also comes down to how their sound compliments, or not, your associated equipment.
They are euphonic sounding, not neutral to my ears, but in an alluring way, as all my others.  I have not heard a VT231 version.

From my listening notes done back in May on 2 other RCA variants (I had only half as many tubes at that point than I do now):

*RCA 1952 6SN7GT, Grey Glass, Black Plate (Flat, Staggered), Short Bottle (Brent Jesse $49.00)*
Bass: Full, impactful, warm
Mids: Rich, warm, transparency is good
Highs: Soft, smooth, never harsh, maybe lacking a little sparkle when called for
Transients: Good, but not ultra-detailed
Air: Plenty, up and down the frequency range
Detail: The warmth and airiness may contribute to a very slight obscuring of very fine detail
Dynamics: Excellent, never gets congested, handles _ffff _with aplomb
Image: Stable and uniform
Soundstage: The most recessed (as in deep and back a bit from the stage) tube of all I have.
Top to Bottom Balance: Weighted towards the bottom of the spectrum, sumptuous string tone, the horns maybe not quite as brassy or bright as they should/could be
Long Term Listenability: All day, if you like a softer, rounded, warmer sound.
Second run through; my thoughts are unchanged.
**********************************************************************************************************************
_(Up next, the RCA Clear Glass from the early 50’s. I expected it was going to be tough call finding differences. Couldn’t have been more wrong.)_

*RCA early 1950’s (56-52 date code?) 6SN7GT, Clear Glass, Black Plate (Flat, Staggered), Medium Bottle (Brent Jesse $35.00 - At this price, I feel it’s a steal!)*
Bass: Full and just as deep ranging as the 52’Grey Glass not as warm or airy but maybe just right for me
Mids: Clear and present, grouped voices nicely individualized if the recording captures it, more transparent than the 52’ Grey Glass
Highs: More extended than the 52’ Grey Glass
Transients: Sharper, quicker, better articulation than the 52’ Grey Glass
Air: Not as much as the 52’ Grey Glass, but not dry, maybe just right for me
Detail: Inner detailing and overall clarity much more to my liking than the 52’ Grey Glass
Dynamics: On a par with the 52’ Grey Glass, maybe a hair less
Image: Stable and uniform
Soundstage: Just as wide but depth of the sound stage is a small amount less
Top to Bottom Balance: Neutral, no excess emphasis on any portion of the frequency range
Long Term Listenability: Very Good to All Day. This tube balances a lot of the above parameters very well. I think it balances nicely between warm and dry sound presentations as well as forward or recessed.

Second run through; my thoughts are unchanged.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 5, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> Nah.  I'm set.  I  haven't bought a tube in like 10 days now.
> 
> @bcowen -- I thought you had the AFCs?



Dang. Caught me red-handed with a billowing brain fart. You are of course correct -- I have the Aeon closed, not the open. What I get for playing on Head-Fi at work...shame (and duh) on me. Thanks for the correction -- edited the post above accordingly.

You're still a hoarder.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> I have 2 of the RCA 6SN7's.
> RCA 6SN7GTB, USA 56 52, staggered blackplates, side getter, 1956 short clear bottle
> RCA 6SN7GT, USA 213, greyglass, staggered blackplates, 1952
> Both are a warm sounding tube and uniquely different from they other 20 some 6SN7 types I have currently.
> ...



Awesome descriptions and detail. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Nah.  I'm set.  *I  haven't bought a tube in like 10 days now*.
> 
> @bcowen -- I thought you had the AFCs?


As your sponsor, I will give you a "10-day clean" chip


----------



## earnmyturns

musicfrommemory said:


> top of my list is the Ken Rad


I don't find my Lyr 3 too bright, but in general I prefer a more neutral, less romantic rendering. Having said that, I own the Schiit-supplied Tung-Sol, a Ken Rad VT-231 (1944), and a Psvane 6SN7-SE. I don't feel that the Ken Rad is especially warm relative to the others.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

musicfrommemory said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Took ownership of a Lyr 3 with Multibit and the stock Russian tube and the Tung Sol. I own both a pair of LCD2Cs and a pair of Aeon Opens. I'm generally very impressed with the Lyr 3 - for the Aeon Opens especially it has opened them up and added an extra element of liquidity to the sound. I feel though that the Lyr 3 is ever-so-slightly bright for my tastes - this is not a criticism because the injection of all the other goodness offsets this but I would nevertheless like to go a degree warmer and wanted some thoughts on how to achieve this - my set up is MBP->Tidal->Lyr 3 (out of the two tubes I prefer the stock Russian as to my ears it's ever-so-slightly less bright.)
> 
> ...



Look for Mullard or Brimer CV181’s made in the U.K., both are warm tubes, you also may find German or Dutch tubes as well.


----------



## ProfFalkin

When you say warm, are you looking for a tube that doesn't have bright treble, or one that just has a lot of bass?

These terms can be misleading.  The reason I ask, if you're looking to tame the treble on a bright headphone, and still have awesome mids and bass, the RCA gray glass tubes fit the bill quite well.  Being as I'm treble sensitive, and the stock hd800 murders me sometimes, I found that tube does pair very well with them.   My treble-head friend doesn't care for it.  He says it takes away all the sparkle.  I've heard this sparkle, and I call it the precursor to 6-10khz hearing loss.  Anyway...  Yeah.  There you go.


----------



## FLTWS

Zachik said:


> As your sponsor, I will give you a "10-day clean" chip


----------



## Currawong

I usually find the chrome-dome Sylvanias to be a bit too polite for my tastes, but I have to say it worked out to be a good match for me in the Lyr 3.


----------



## betula

Can anyone comment on the sound differences between the Lyr3 and the Questyle CMA600i (amp only)?


----------



## 441879

Hey all- haven’t posted for a while, but I’d thought I’d share since I bought a new DAC. I’m rather surprised to report it made a noticeable difference in the sound out of my Lyr 3. Mostly I bought it because I liked the display, but I really think it pairs well with the Lyr 3. Sound stage sounds much more realistic than with my Modi 2U. The D50 is perhaps less punchy than the Modi but more euphonic. The chain is IPhone or IPad going through either a USB cable or Apple airport and optical cable to a Topping D50. On the Lyr I’m using a Sylvania 2 hole bad boy for the tube and some AFCs as the phones.

This may be my end game.


----------



## musicfrommemory

ProfFalkin said:


> When you say warm, are you looking for a tube that doesn't have bright treble, or one that just has a lot of bass?



Good question - so by warmth I'd go along with some of the following: an open and inviting sound with an enveloping, luscious and varying euphoric quality ranging in effect from comforting to ecstatic, especially in the mids and low end. I find warmth appears (if it is present) especially on the mid and low end of synthesised or electronic music, and music with upper and lower bass. Warmth doesn't exist in the highs (as I feel it.)

It sets off a cat's purr of a response in the listener with a peak response being the raising of ones hairs. The sensation of warmth might appear transiently or be ever-present in a song and also may peak and trough along the way. I feel, and I might be wrong, that warmth is incompatible with aggression, but that warmth may appear in e.g., the guitar notes of an electric guitar, in an otherwise aggressive tune.

The Aeon Opens are especially rewarding here, the LCD2C's less so.


----------



## tafens

So it finally arrived.. the Lyr3 (with multibit DAC card). I pushed in the accompanying 6N8S tube and let the amp warm up for half an hour. Then attached USB cable to computer to listen to some music.

Anticipation, then.. disbelief. Something is wrong, there is only sound from the left channel and that sounds weak as well. I have tried high/low gain (high sounds louder on the working channel, but no other difference), I tried connecting my Modi to the RCA inputs instead (bypassing the DAC card), but right channel still silent. Connected the Magni to the Modi instead and everything sounds fine from the Magni. So problem is with the Lyr3. Tube perhaps? So I exchanged the tube to a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB I ordered beforehand from a local dealer. Still no right channel. Looks like the tube isn’t the problem either, but I have no other tube amp to confirm the tubes on.

I need some tips, have I missed anything?

I already sent an email to the vendor (Schiit-Europe), hoping to get a response by Monday.


----------



## antoramp

tafens said:


> So it finally arrived.. the Lyr3 (with multibit DAC card). I pushed in the accompanying 6N8S tube and let the amp warm up for half an hour. Then attached USB cable to computer to listen to some music.
> 
> Anticipation, then.. disbelief. Something is wrong, there is only sound from the left channel and that sounds weak as well. I have tried high/low gain (high sounds louder on the working channel, but no other difference), I tried connecting my Modi to the RCA inputs instead (bypassing the DAC card), but right channel still silent. Connected the Magni to the Modi instead and everything sounds fine from the Magni. So problem is with the Lyr3. Tube perhaps? So I exchanged the tube to a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB I ordered beforehand from a local dealer. Still no right channel. Looks like the tube isn’t the problem either, but I have no other tube amp to confirm the tubes on.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem... now mine it’s on repair...


----------



## ProfFalkin

tafens said:


> So it finally arrived.. the Lyr3 (with multibit DAC card). I pushed in the accompanying 6N8S tube and let the amp warm up for half an hour. Then attached USB cable to computer to listen to some music.
> 
> Anticipation, then.. disbelief. Something is wrong, there is only sound from the left channel and that sounds weak as well. I have tried high/low gain (high sounds louder on the working channel, but no other difference), I tried connecting my Modi to the RCA inputs instead (bypassing the DAC card), but right channel still silent. Connected the Magni to the Modi instead and everything sounds fine from the Magni. So problem is with the Lyr3. Tube perhaps? So I exchanged the tube to a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB I ordered beforehand from a local dealer. Still no right channel. Looks like the tube isn’t the problem either, but I have no other tube amp to confirm the tubes on.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you'll have to RMA.   Sorry to hear that.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm sorry to hear about the Lyr 3 issue.  Schiit will handle that quickly for you seeing as how it is pretty much DOA.


----------



## Ichos

Hi everyone.
Any feedback on Lyr 3 vs mjolnir 2 (balanced) for the HD800s?


----------



## MtnMan307

I just ordered the Lyr 3 last night with no DAC but the upgraded Tung-Sol tube.  I'm thinking it will be plenty good enough to sell the Vali 2 and maybe even the Jotunheim.  I will have to post my impressions when it gets here and I can listen in my bedroom instead of the RMAF show.


----------



## Ripper2860

Welcome to the fold ...


----------



## 441879

MtnMan307 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr 3 last night with no DAC but the upgraded Tung-Sol tube.  I'm thinking it will be plenty good enough to sell the Vali 2 and maybe even the Jotunheim.  I will have to post my impressions when it gets here and I can listen in my bedroom instead of the RMAF show.



Now it’s time to wander on over to the Lyr3 tube rolling thread....   . When I bought my Lyr 3 that’s the first thing I did. Both the Tung Sol and NOS Russian sound good so you don’t need to and I wouldn’t recommend going nuts and buying a bunch of $100+ tubes, but depending on your phones there’s some great pairings out there.


----------



## Ripper2860

^^^  Don't do it!!  Whatever you do -- don't do it!!!!


----------



## chef8489

MtnMan307 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr 3 last night with no DAC but the upgraded Tung-Sol tube.  I'm thinking it will be plenty good enough to sell the Vali 2 and maybe even the Jotunheim.  I will have to post my impressions when it gets here and I can listen in my bedroom instead of the RMAF show.


It was a great upgrade over the Vali 2. Now find a great vintage tube to throw in there.


----------



## 441879 (Oct 25, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> ^^^  Don't do it!!  Whatever you do -- don't do it!!!!



Listen to this man and consider his words carefully. He knows of what he speaks and shares the wisdom of lessons learned but ignored.


----------



## JamminVMI

MtnMan307 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr 3 last night with no DAC but the upgraded Tung-Sol tube.  I'm thinking it will be plenty good enough to sell the Vali 2 and maybe even the Jotunheim.  I will have to post my impressions when it gets here and I can listen in my bedroom instead of the RMAF show.


I wasn’t a fan of the Jot, but I have both the Vali 2 and Lyr 3 - love them both... Welcome to our nightmare!


----------



## MtnMan307

Since you have both the Vali 2 and Lyr 3, do find that the Vali 2 does something better? The Lyr 3 specs are a pretty big step up, especially the new Continuity technology.


----------



## bobfa

WOW, what a thread!  I finally decided to order a Lyr 3.

Schiit has just shipped my Lyr 3 with the MB DAC and both of their tubes.  I also have a WYRD in the order.  My primary use case is desktop operation connected to my 27in iMac.     I also plan to use it as a headphone amp in my "big" system connected to the Yggdrasil DAC. I ordered the WYRD as mostly a reaction to knowing that USB is not great out of a machine with that big display and more. 

From my reading this thread it seems that either of the tubes Schiit ships is a great start.  I may flip a coin to decide the first tube to run.  This is my first tube amp and it is exciting as well as scary.  I am afraid to go over to the tube-rolling thread and read.  

I will try some A/B testing after burn-in. Including with and without the Wyrd and with and without a "special" power cable on the Lyr 3.  

My main headphones for listening are HD-800 and HD-6xx. I am looking at the HD-820 and a few more this weekend at a local dealer that is having a headphone event! 

Oh, and  I run Roon as my control software.


----------



## chef8489

MtnMan307 said:


> Since you have both the Vali 2 and Lyr 3, do find that the Vali 2 does something better? The Lyr 3 specs are a pretty big step up, especially the new Continuity technology.


The lyr 3 does everything better than the vali 2 except for the size.


----------



## earnmyturns

bobfa said:


> I also plan to use it as a headphone amp in my "big" system connected to the Yggdrasil DAC


The Lyr 3 keeps up with a really good DAC. I'd be still listening to mine full time with some really capable DACs if I hadn't been distracted by an used, exotic, discontinued, expensive 6SN7 hybrid amp that is messing up with my listening


----------



## JamminVMI

MtnMan307 said:


> Since you have both the Vali 2 and Lyr 3, do find that the Vali 2 does something better? The Lyr 3 specs are a pretty big step up, especially the new Continuity technology.


I just find that I like the V2. I have my main rig downstairs (Bifrost 4490/Lyr 3), and on my desk upatairs reside Mimby/Vali 2, so no direct competition, 
I just preferred V2 to any Magni...


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> The lyr 3 does everything better than the vali 2 except for the size.



Agreed....except the size thing is a matter of perspective. I've always heard that bigger is better. @Ripper2860 is in TX....perhaps he can confirm.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep.


----------



## MtnMan307

The Lyr 3 got here about an hour ago.  So far I'm using the K7XX and they have never sounded like this.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 27, 2018)

Hopefully 'This' is good and not bad.  

J/K.  You are in for a real treat!!


----------



## MtnMan307 (Oct 27, 2018)

"This" is definitely pretty good!  I had to answer a nature call or I would have elaborated more lol.  Lyr 3 puts out way more power than the Vali 2 or SE output of the Jot, possibly why it seems to take a big step up with the K7XX.  Now I'm using the LCD-2's.  So far I would say that the Jot is more aggressive and punchy but the Lyr 3 is more musical.  I'm not sure if I can part with the Jot, it has it's own appeal definitely, but Lyr 3 has a more engaging sound.  This is my 4th Schiit purchase and all have been impressive.  Wow.


----------



## Ripper2860

I hate to tell you this, but the sonic profile can change with tube selection.  You'd be surprised at the difference a Sylvania 2 or 3-hole Bad Boy will make.  It will pack a punch!!  

(Be sure to checkout the 'Lyr 3 Tube Rolling' thread, if you have $$ to burn.)


----------



## 441879 (Oct 27, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> I hate to tell you this, but the sonic profile can change with tube selection.  You'd be surprised at the difference a Sylvania 2 or 3-hole Bad Boy will make.  It will pack a punch!!
> 
> (Be sure to checkout the 'Lyr 3 Tube Rolling' thread, if you have $$ to burn.)



The Sylvania Bad boys totally suck. Do not buy them. If you already have, do not listen to them. Send directly to me for proper, err disposal. I will sacrifice my ears so you don’t have to. Stay away from the Ken-Rad black glass tubes as well. No good can come from them.

Ignore my helpful and well meaning advice only if you want to spend a lot of money (like that crazy nut Ripper).


----------



## chef8489

will f said:


> The Sylvania Bad boys totally suck. Do not buy them. If you already have, do not listen to them. Send directly to me for proper, err disposal. I will sacrifice my ears so you don’t have to. Stay away from the Ken-Rad black glass tubes as well. No good can come from them.
> 
> Ignore my helpful and well meaning advice only if you want to spend a lot of money (like that crazy nut Ripper).


If I was not tight on money I would not have sold my Ken-rad vt231 black glass or be selling any of my other tubes. Lol


----------



## JamminVMI

MtnMan307 said:


> The Lyr 3 got here about an hour ago.  So far I'm using the K7XX and they have never sounded like this.


I was actually using mine the other day with the solid state Lyr 3 (LISST) - really enjoyable, truth be told...


----------



## chef8489

Well a sad day has come. Looks like I am having to put up my Lyr 3 multibit with all my tubes and my lcd2c up for sale. Crap just keeps coming up in my life right now. I love these and when I get back on my feet I will purchase them again.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm sorry to hear that.  Hope all get sorted out quickly and you bounce back better than ever.


----------



## 441879

Well this is a bummer. My Lyr 3 was about 10 seconds into warming up when it went pop and let the magic smoke out. It sounded fantastic while it lasted. Needless to say I’m not enjoying the distinctive smell of fried electronics.


----------



## 441879

chef8489 said:


> Well a sad day has come. Looks like I am having to put up my Lyr 3 multibit with all my tubes and my lcd2c up for sale. Crap just keeps coming up in my life right now. I love these and when I get back on my feet I will purchase them again.



 That’s got to really suck. Sorry man.


----------



## Ripper2860

will f said:


> Well this is a bummer. My Lyr 3 was about 10 seconds into warming up when it went pop and let the magic smoke out. It sounded fantastic while it lasted. Needless to say I’m not enjoying the distinctive smell of fried electronics.



Sorry to hear that -- same happened to me.  Got an RMA and shipped Lyr 3 back for service and got it back good as new in about 2 weeks.  Pressed my Magni 3 into service while Lyr 3 was off in California and while I love my Magni 3, I did not enjoy it nearly as much as Lyr 3.  Couldn't wait to get it back!!  No problems at all since I got it back.


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Sorry to hear that -- same happened to me.  Got an RMA and shipped Lyr 3 back for service and got it back good as new in about 2 weeks.  Pressed my Magni 3 into service while Lyr 3 was off in California and while I love my Magni 3, I did not enjoy it nearly as much as Lyr 3.  Couldn't wait to get it back!!  No problems at all since I got it back.



I’ll probably do the same and pull the Magni back from work, but I’m considering my options. The Magni and AFO don’t seem to work together as well and I’m really going to miss the Lyr. I’m debating whether I should grab another solid state for variety.


----------



## bcowen

will f said:


> I’m debating whether I should grab another solid state for variety.



A dead amp sucks, but it can be fixed. No reason to go off the deep end. That's like cutting off your arm because you pulled a muscle.


----------



## FLTWS

In my audio experience having back-ups for a "Plan B" is always a good idea. I always have at least one tube and one SS amp at the ready.


----------



## Wes S

FLTWS said:


> In my audio experience having back-ups for a "Plan B" is always a good idea. I always have at least one tube and one SS amp at the ready.


I am right there with ya!  My Jot and Lyr 3 are always ready to rock and take the lead role.  I enjoy this hobby to much, to be down.


----------



## FLTWS

Wes S said:


> I am right there with ya!  My Jot and Lyr 3 are always ready to rock and take the lead role.  I enjoy this hobby to much, to be down.



And those two pieces are an excellent pairing to meet all audio....emergencies!


----------



## 441879

Normally I’d think Jot or Asgard. I’m just a little distrustful of Schiit reliability at the moment. I thought about picking up a Cavelli Liquid platinum, but that would mean two tube amps. Not necessarily a bad thing, but isn’t cheap. Right now I’m using a FIIO Q5. It’s no desktop DAC / Amp but it does a decent job on clarity and detail.  Perhaps I just need to see what’s on the for sale forum and try something new.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 11, 2018)

I understand your reservations, but if Schiit gear had a serious QC issue, I think it would be all over Head-fi and the web. In my case it was a faulty resistor that took our a servo control -- not an engineering issue.  I only know of 4 folks that have posted on HF about an issue with a Lyr 3 failure and that's with myself and you included.


----------



## earnmyturns

will f said:


> Normally I’d think Jot or Asgard. I’m just a little distrustful of Schiit reliability at the moment. I thought about picking up a Cavelli Liquid platinum, but that would mean two tube amps. Not necessarily a bad thing, but isn’t cheap. Right now I’m using a FIIO Q5. It’s no desktop DAC / Amp but it does a decent job on clarity and detail.  Perhaps I just need to see what’s on the for sale forum and try something new.


This gets very good reviews, but I've never heard it myself.


----------



## 441879 (Nov 11, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> This gets very good reviews, but I've never heard it myself.



I’ve seen a lot of positive commentary, but not much on specs. I’d want to see something that gives me an idea of its performance with a wide range of impedances.


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> I understand your reservations, but if Schiit gear had a serious QC issue, I think it would be all over Head-fi and the web. In my case it was a faulty resistor that took our a servo control -- not an engineering issue.  Now with you failure, I only know of 4 folks that have posted about an issue with a Lyr 3 failure -- myself and you included.



Part of my problem is that sound wise, the Lyr 3 + AFO is pretty hard to beat and I already have a collection of tubes I like. If I want equal performance, I’m going to end up spending a not insignificant amount of money. Mostly, I’m just annoyed I won’t be losing myself in sonic bliss for a while.


----------



## earnmyturns

will f said:


> I’ve seen a lot of positive commentary, but not much on specs. I’d want to see something that gives me an idea of its performance with a wide range of impedances.


MrSpeakers sell 3 solid-state amps: Jot, Gilmore Lite mk2, and Ragnarok. Dan wrote good things about the Gilmore for his headphones elsewhere in Head-Fi. My "backup" amp is a Neurochrome HP-1. I like the Lyr 3 with a good tube better, the Jot less.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I understand your reservations, but if Schiit gear had a serious QC issue, I think it would be all over Head-fi and the web. In my case it was a faulty resistor that took our a servo control -- not an engineering issue.  Now with you failure, I only know of 4 folks that have posted about an issue with a Lyr 3 failure -- myself and you included.



Yeah, and @Ripper2860 's was most likely due to user error, so that makes only 3 that have failed on their own.


----------



## Ripper2860

Maybe. Highly unlikely, but cannot be ruled out.


----------



## 441879

earnmyturns said:


> MrSpeakers sell 3 solid-state amps: Jot, Gilmore Lite mk2, and Ragnarok. Dan wrote good things about the Gilmore for his headphones elsewhere in Head-Fi. My "backup" amp is a Neurochrome HP-1. I like the Lyr 3 with a good tube better, the Jot less.



Good to know. I think I’ll probably just wait for the Lyr to come back. I can manage for a couple weeks with my Q5 and Magni. What would I do with another amp which is no better and probably not as good as the Lyr?


----------



## Zachik

earnmyturns said:


> MrSpeakers sell 3 solid-state amps: Jot, Gilmore Lite mk2, and Ragnarok. Dan wrote good things about the Gilmore for his headphones elsewhere in Head-Fi. My "backup" amp is a Neurochrome HP-1. I like the Lyr 3 with a good tube better, the Jot less.


I own and highly recommend the Gilmore Lite Mk2 !!
In fact, I bought the very first production unit (Serial # 1) 
My favorite solid state amp for sure.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> I own and highly recommend the Gilmore Lite Mk2 !!
> In fact, I bought the very first production unit (Serial # 1)
> My favorite solid state amp for sure.


Have you compared to any other solid state amps?  I was quite impressed with it at rmaf on the ZMF booth.  Really did nice things for the Eikon and Verite.


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> Have you compared to any other solid state amps?  I was quite impressed with it at rmaf on the ZMF booth.  Really did nice things for the Eikon and Verite.


I only really compared it to Schiit Jot. The Gilmore is warmer and smoother, very musical, compared to the Jot which is more neutral and dry, analytical, and non-musical IMHO.
I also own the Massdrop LCX, but never really compared the 2...


----------



## ProfFalkin (Nov 11, 2018)

Zachik said:


> I only really compared it to Schiit Jot. The Gilmore is warmer and smoother, very musical, compared to the Jot which is more neutral and dry, analytical, and non-musical IMHO.
> I also own the Massdrop LCX, but never really compared the 2...


I have owned a jotunheim since it was released, so I'm fairly familiar with how it sounds.  My initial impression of the Gilmore is pretty much what you just said.  Take that with a giant grain of salt, as it was with unfamiliar headphones and in show conditions.  Good to hear you say it though, as it confirms I'm not completely deaf.  haha

I kind of want one.   The Lyr3 is fantastic, but tubes are stressing me out.   Personal problem.


----------



## Zachik

In my opinion, the Gilmore Lite is the perfect solid state amp for people who love tube amp sound! Smooth, warm and musical.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Nov 11, 2018)

Zachik said:


> In my opinion, the Gilmore Lite is the perfect solid state amp for people who love tube amp sound! Smooth, warm and musical.


IMO, that crown would go to the EC Black Widow 2.   

(Practically unobtainium however...)


----------



## JamminVMI (Nov 11, 2018)

will f said:


> Good to know. I think I’ll probably just wait for the Lyr to come back. I can manage for a couple weeks with my Q5 and Magni. What would I do with another amp which is no better and probably not as good as the Lyr?


Only thing you can do.  That silly one-tubed amp is an absolute jewel.  Parts give out, people don't.

Edit: I know, the Lyr 3 ain't silly...


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> IMO, that crown would go to the EC Black Widow 2.


I won’t argue since I’ve never even seen one!


----------



## Ripper2860

Zachik said:


> In my opinion, the Gilmore Lite is the perfect solid state amp for people who love tube amp sound! Smooth, warm and musical.



Now you tell me.  Would have been good to know BEFORE I purchased 50 tubes for Lyr 3.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ripper2860 said:


> Now you tell me.  Would have been good to know BEFORE I purchased 50 tubes for Lyr 3.


Rotflmao! I’ll buy a few! So far I have an Electroharmonix, the Russian, Tung Sol & LISST from Schiit...


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Now you tell me.  Would have been good to know BEFORE I purchased 50 tubes for Lyr 3.


Didn’t stop me from buying a lot of tubes too...


----------



## 441879

You guys are making me rethink the Gilmore. It definitely has a heck of a pedigree.


----------



## tafens

Hi guys,

Listening to my new Lyr3 and enjoying it greatly 

However, I noticed a problem when I picked it up to move it slightly.
When I held it and there was pressure from my hand applied on the underside in the middle of the amp, the left channel cut out.
It seems even a moderate pressure on the underside below or near the tube makes the left channel go silent.
This doesn't seem quite normal to me, or is it? Anyone else notice this?


----------



## ProfFalkin

tafens said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Listening to my new Lyr3 and enjoying it greatly
> 
> ...


I haven't moved it since I set it up, so I wouldn't know.


----------



## Ripper2860

The Lyr 3 has components mounted on the top and bottom of the main board.  I've never attempted to move mine while on and listening, so I cannot speak to whether that is normal or not.  Perhaps an e-mail to Schiit support can provide an answer.  Please do share it with us when you get it -- I'm curious as to what they say.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> However, I noticed a problem when I picked it up to move it slightly.
> When I held it and there was pressure from my hand applied on the underside in the middle of the amp, the left channel cut out.
> It seems even a moderate pressure on the underside below or near the tube makes the left channel go silent.
> This doesn't seem quite normal to me, or is it? Anyone else notice this?



You're supposed to fondle the tubes, not the amp.  We're all in shock.  

Seriously, that's strange and certainly not normal.  Are you sure you don't have (perhaps) a marginal connection on your headphone jack or cable that is losing contact when you handle the amp....just as a coincidence?  Other than that, I'm with @Ripper2860 -- shoot an email to Schiit.


----------



## tafens

Believe me, I’m fondling the tubes more than the amp  I’ve got three so far, including the stock NOS.

Headphone cable is ok, works fine in other amps. First I thought it was the headphone jack, but I can’t see that it could be as it drops out also when I put pressure nowhere near there.

I’ll email Schiit and see what they say.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Believe me, I’m fondling the tubes more than the amp  I’ve got three so far, including the stock NOS.
> 
> Headphone cable is ok, works fine in other amps. First I thought it was the headphone jack, but I can’t see that it could be as it drops out also when I put pressure nowhere near there.
> 
> I’ll email Schiit and see what they say.



Three?  THREE?  When you get to _300_, let us know and @Ripper2860 will send you an invitation to the next WHORE meeting (*W*orldwide *H*oarders *O*f *R*are *E*lectronics). He's the founding father.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Three?  THREE?  When you get to _300_, let us know and @Ripper2860 will send you an invitation to the next WHORE meeting (*W*orldwide *H*oarders *O*f *R*are *E*lectronics). He's the founding father.



ROFL 
When I get there I'll let you now for sure..


----------



## Ripper2860

A wee bit of an exaggeration by @bcowen.  You can join at BRONZE LEVEL status after 25 unique tubes.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Nov 13, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> A wee bit of an exaggeration by @bcowen.  You can join at BRONZE LEVEL status after 25 unique tubes.


What gives!?   You told me 100.   You trying to keep me out?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 13, 2018)

Unfortunately, @bcowen voted against our extending you a membership invitation.  Something about previous posting of pictures of tubes along with obscene hand gestures for scale.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> A wee bit of an exaggeration by @bcowen.  You can join at BRONZE LEVEL status after 25 unique tubes.


I think I qualify! Barely...


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, in that case, weclome -- the WHORES await!!!


----------



## porchwizard

tafens said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Listening to my new Lyr3 and enjoying it greatly
> 
> ...


I picked mine up with some channel locks, banged it on the desk and hit it with a hammer and no dropouts, just some tube ringing.
Ok... maybe not. I did pick it up with both hands and squeezed points all the way around. No reaction but the sweet sound of music.


----------



## FLTWS

I picked up mine yesterday tried to flex the bottom plate with both hands, nothing happened.


----------



## tafens (Nov 14, 2018)

Thanks for checking everyone, meanwhile I got a reply from Schiit (in 45 minutes from sending the question), and what they said was basically that if both channels work when it’s standing flat with no pressure on the bottom it should be fine. So I’ll try not to worry about it and just listen to the music 

Edit: ..and collect more tubes!


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Thanks for checking everyone, meanwhile I got a reply from Schiit (in 45 minutes from sending the question), and what they said was basically that if both channels work when it’s standing flat with no pressure on the bottom it should be fine. So I’ll try not to worry about it and just listen to the music
> 
> Edit: ..and collect more tubes!



That was their professional way of saying "Quit fondling your Lyr."  

Still pretty darn strange though....


----------



## rgmffn

tafens said:


> Thanks for checking everyone, meanwhile I got a reply from Schiit (in 45 minutes from sending the question), and what they said was basically that if both channels work when it’s standing flat with no pressure on the bottom it should be fine. So I’ll try not to worry about it and just listen to the music
> 
> Edit: ..and collect more tubes!


That response really surprises me.  If you've ruled out bad patch cords and their connections, in all likelihood there is a cold soldier joint or some other loose connection in there. This is not normal or common. There is a problem somewhere. Did you try just moving the patch cords around without moving the amp?


----------



## riffrafff

rgmffn said:


> in all likelihood there is a cold soldier joint or some other loose connection in there.



That was my first thought, too.  Odd response from Schiit.   


_Doctor, it hurts when I do that.
Well, don't do that._


----------



## tafens

rgmffn said:


> That response really surprises me.  If you've ruled out bad patch cords and their connections, in all likelihood there is a cold soldier joint or some other loose connection in there. This is not normal or common. There is a problem somewhere. Did you try just moving the patch cords around without moving the amp?



The full response to my question was that they had not heard of this before, and that the Lyr 3 is not designed to have pressure on the bottom, but if both channels works correctly when it is placed on a flat surface then it should be fine. But if it happens when it is sitting on a flat surface, then they would need to troubleshoot.

Now, I didn't buy directly from Schiit, but from schiit-europe. I already got one Lyr3 replaced from them because the left channel didn't work at all. This one (which has the very next serial number) works, but has this somewhat strange problem.. I have emailed them 2 days ago and not yet received a reply. Not nearly the same response time as Schiit-US.

But as you say, it does feel a bit odd and not quite normal doesn't it? I have only USB and headphones connected, and those cords are both fine. I've checked them.
The cold solder joint idea sounds probable because I can hold the amp still with both hands on either side and have it working, but give a squeeze with my right hand (that is near the tube) and the left channel goes out. Release and it's back. I might just try to shoot them another email to see what they think about this.


----------



## JamminVMI (Nov 14, 2018)

tafens said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Listening to my new Lyr3 and enjoying it greatly
> 
> ...


First thought was: Don’t move it whilst it’s on! Second (more coherent) thought is: Might be something about grounding the board due to chassis flex with handling pressure. Third thought (based on second thought) was: Refer back to first thought!

Edit: will give mine a squeeze... did, no response, just music..


----------



## tafens

JamminVMI said:


> First thought was: Don’t move it whilst it’s on! Second (more coherent) thought is: Might be something about grounding the board due to chassis flex with handling pressure. Third thought (based on second thought) was: Refer back to first thought!
> 
> Edit: will give mine a squeeze... did, no response, just music..



Thanks for checking. I just had a thought and did another test; if i gently push down on the tube with the other hand instead of releasing the squeeze the channel also comes back. I have tried two different tubes, same with both. Maybe there's something with the socket.. solder-wise or otherwise.


----------



## 441879

tafens said:


> Thanks for checking. I just had a thought and did another test; if i gently push down on the tube with the other hand instead of releasing the squeeze the channel also comes back. I have tried two different tubes, same with both. Maybe there's something with the socket.. solder-wise or otherwise.



Either it’s not normal, and that’s a problem, or it’s normal, and that’s a problem. Schiit will probably want to look at this. Two units in a row losing a channel, one intermittently, suggests it’s a potential QC issue and worth investigating, at least to the point of verifying how much applied force recreates the problem.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 16, 2018)

will f said:


> Either it’s not normal, and that’s a problem, or it’s normal, and that’s a problem. Schiit will probably want to look at this. Two units in a row losing a channel, one intermittently, suggests it’s a potential QC issue and worth investigating, at least to the point of verifying how much applied force recreates the problem.



Totally agree.  The case is rigid enough that no amount of pressure applied only by hand should cause a channel to drop out. There has to be a bad solder joint or a contact that is grounding out on the case.

EDIT:  If it were me (and everyone is glad they're not ) I'd take off the cover and take a look inside.  The cover isn't hard to get off once you know how....


----------



## tafens

will f said:


> Either it’s not normal, and that’s a problem, or it’s normal, and that’s a problem. Schiit will probably want to look at this. Two units in a row losing a channel, one intermittently, suggests it’s a potential QC issue and worth investigating, at least to the point of verifying how much applied force recreates the problem.



After I got back to them and described the problem in more detail they offered to take
It back on warranty.

It occurred to me that there is the possibility that it might be a transport issue. The amp sits well cushioned in the box, but the European power cord has a larger/thicker plug to the wall outlet than the US one, and the cord was placed under the amp in the box. Only thing between the cord plug and the amp is just a layer of cardboard and not much room to spare. If the box is handled roughly and lands/is hit in the bottom the cord plug could transfer the force right to the bottom of the amp.. for other amps this might not be a problem, but the Lyr3 has heat sinks attached to the bottom that must be in contact with components on the circuit board, doesn’t it?


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> After I got back to them and described the problem in more detail they offered to take
> It back on warranty.
> 
> It occurred to me that there is the possibility that it might be a transport issue. The amp sits well cushioned in the box, but the European power cord has a larger/thicker plug to the wall outlet than the US one, and the cord was placed under the amp in the box. Only thing between the cord plug and the amp is just a layer of cardboard and not much room to spare. If the box is handled roughly and lands/is hit in the bottom the cord plug could transfer the force right to the bottom of the amp.. for other amps this might not be a problem, but the Lyr3 has heat sinks attached to the bottom that must be in contact with components on the circuit board, doesn’t it?



Unlikely, although anything is possible. If the heat sinks for the Mosfets (or whatever output transistor they are using) are mounted to the bottom of the board and are in close proximity to the case, they would likely use insulation kits to isolate the heatsink electrically. If the heatsinks don't have insulation kits and contacted the case at some point, it would result in the unforgettable smell of electronic barbecue.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Unlikely, although anything is possible. If the heat sinks for the Mosfets (or whatever output transistor they are using) are mounted to the bottom of the board and are in close proximity to the case, they would likely use insulation kits to isolate the heatsink electrically. If the heatsinks don't have insulation kits and contacted the case at some point, it would result in the unforgettable smell of electronic barbecue.



Yes, they are sure to be insulated, but I’m not thinking short circuits here but that the force of a bump (or many) could knock off a solder joint, causing it to go intermittent. Maybe.


----------



## ilikepooters

If it helps i have a 230VAC Lyr 3. I got tired of waiting for the Schiit EU site to get stock so bought direct from Schiit US. Number on back is 03300124.

Bottom doesn't depress at ll, and no channel loss.


----------



## 441879

tafens said:


> After I got back to them and described the problem in more detail they offered to take
> It back on warranty.
> 
> It occurred to me that there is the possibility that it might be a transport issue. The amp sits well cushioned in the box, but the European power cord has a larger/thicker plug to the wall outlet than the US one, and the cord was placed under the amp in the box. Only thing between the cord plug and the amp is just a layer of cardboard and not much room to spare. If the box is handled roughly and lands/is hit in the bottom the cord plug could transfer the force right to the bottom of the amp.. for other amps this might not be a problem, but the Lyr3 has heat sinks attached to the bottom that must be in contact with components on the circuit board, doesn’t it?



Glad to hear it. Hopefully they’ll look into it enough to figure out the cause. Far cheaper to fix a problem before it occurs than to fix under warranty.


----------



## 441879

Well My Lyr arrived at Schiit today (mail from AK takes a while) they immediately responded that they got it and I should hear back in a few days. What I would call great customer service so far. Probably won’t ship until next week (being thanksgiving this week), but I’m stoked to be getting it back. Really miss the sound.


----------



## bcowen

will f said:


> Well My Lyr arrived at Schiit today (mail from AK takes a while) they immediately responded that they got it and I should hear back in a few days. What I would call great customer service so far. Probably won’t ship until next week (being thanksgiving this week), but I’m stoked to be getting it back. Really miss the sound.



Cool.  Hopefully it's back in your hands quickly. And at least you didn't blow it up yourself by sticking in an untested tube you got on Ebay from a seller in Elbonia with a 27% feedback rating. Won't mention who did that 'cause I don't want to embarrass @Ripper2860 .


----------



## Ripper2860

A slight exaggeration based on fantasy and speculation.  Sure, blame the tube, it's not like a component has ever failed and taken out a tube that was playing fabulously hours before.  Someone's jealous that I got a new left channel resistor and servo and they didn't.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> A slight exaggeration based on fantasy and speculation.  Sure, blame the tube, it's not like a component has ever failed and taken out a tube that was playing fabulously hours before.  Someone's jealous that I got a new left channel resistor and servo and they didn't.



Yeah, well, um, my right channel resistor and servo are bigger than yours.


----------



## Ripper2860

Game. Set. Match.


----------



## earnmyturns (Nov 23, 2018)

My home office is finally redone with a nice shelf for audio gear and bookshelves for way too many books. Here's the testbench: Lyr 3 on the left, with a just-started-to-burn-in Sylvania two-hole Bad Boy, in the middle the Apex Peak with the Psvane 6SN7-SE, a backwards-connected SYS to allow me to switch between the two amps stacked on the Peak, and on the right a stack of a Metrum Onyx DAC and a Metrum Ambre streamer. Storage cabinets under the bookshelves have room for a good 6SN7 collection  Under the shelf, you may spy power cables going to a Furman power conditioner, and the Peak's DC power cable going to its Volcano LPS.


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> My home office is finally redone with a nice shelf for audio gear and bookshelves for way too many books. Here's the testbench: Lyr 3 on the left, with a just-started-to-burn-in Synvania two-hole Bad Boy, in the middle the Apex Peak with the Psvane 6SN7-SE, a backwards-connected SYS to allow me to switch between the two amps stacked on the Peak, and on the right a stack of a Metrum Onyx DAC and a Metrum Ambre streamer. Storage cabinets under the bookshelves have room for a good 6SN7 collection  Under the shelf, you may spy power cables going to a Furman power conditioner, and the Peak's DC power cable going to its Volcano LPS.




The photo didn't come through. Love to see it.


----------



## earnmyturns

bcowen said:


> The photo didn't come through. Love to see it.


Hum... What about now?


----------



## 441879

earnmyturns said:


> My home office is finally redone with a nice shelf for audio gear and bookshelves for way too many books. Here's the testbench: Lyr 3 on the left, with a just-started-to-burn-in Synvania two-hole Bad Boy, in the middle the Apex Peak with the Psvane 6SN7-SE, a backwards-connected SYS to allow me to switch between the two amps stacked on the Peak, and on the right a stack of a Metrum Onyx DAC and a Metrum Ambre streamer. Storage cabinets under the bookshelves have room for a good 6SN7 collection  Under the shelf, you may spy power cables going to a Furman power conditioner, and the Peak's DC power cable going to its Volcano LPS.


Some nice gear there!


----------



## Ripper2860

I see it.  @bcowen 's vision is not what it used to be.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I see it.  @bcowen 's vision is not what it used to be.



My tolerance for software updates isn't what it used to be either. Friggin' Firefox. Last update has caused several things to stop displaying. Used to love Firefox, but the (almost) weekly updates that cause at least something to work differently or stop functioning altogether have exhausted my patience. Uninstalled. And end of rant.  

As for the vision thing, that's true too.


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> Hum... What about now?



See it now. User error. 

Sweet setup!  Love the cutout in the back for the cords to drop through. 

Are those AVC or Mapleshade footers/isolation blocks stacked up in the back? I bought a set of the AVS ones a couple years ago and IIRC they were $40/8. I see they're now $80/8. Must have gotten popular....


----------



## earnmyturns (Nov 23, 2018)

bcowen said:


> See it now. User error.
> 
> Sweet setup!  Love the cutout in the back for the cords to drop through.
> 
> Are those AVC or Mapleshade footers/isolation blocks stacked up in the back? I bought a set of the AVS ones a couple years ago and IIRC they were $40/8. I see they're now $80/8. Must have gotten popular....


Yes, the cutout was planned that way. I got the isolation blocks but I can't remember where a few years ago to improve ventilation between stacked Schiit. As my gear changed, I've adopted them for separating signal cables from power cables.

In Lyr-ish news, that 2-hole Bad Boy sounds pretty nice in the Lyr 3 after only 24h of burn-in. A tad rough in the mids still, but good space, bass impact, and treble extension for orchestral music. Gotta listen to some jazz now...


----------



## nicknack40

Anybody using the Lyr 3 with LCD2-C's Currently using Magni 3 which is great value for what it is but intrested in trying the Lyr 3


----------



## cebuboy

nicknack40 said:


> Anybody using the Lyr 3 with LCD2-C's Currently using Magni 3 which is great value for what it is but intrested in trying the Lyr 3



Currently using the LCD2-F with the Lyr 3 + Foton 6H8C ribbed plates, which I prefer over the Sylvania 2-hole. The Magni 3 powers the LCD nicely enough though but the Lyr does bring out those extras.


----------



## ProfFalkin

nicknack40 said:


> Anybody using the Lyr 3 with LCD2-C's Currently using Magni 3 which is great value for what it is but intrested in trying the Lyr 3


If you like the sound of the LCD2C, the Lyr 3 is a good pairing.  I had the combo paired up for 2 weeks, and thought it was ok.


----------



## nicknack40

I love my LCD2-C's for my Genre of music deep house oldskool house the Bass is great on these aswell as vocals but im intrested in trying other amps now. The Magni does power them fine but i feel like im missing something that the Magni doesn't give me and that's not saying the Magni ain't good its very good for the money paid


----------



## jbarrentine

Can anyone comment on Lyr 3 vs Project Polaris?


----------



## cebuboy

Anybody run a 5692? 6SN7 are getting expensive, good thing you only need one.


----------



## Ripper2860

My personal experience and that of some others that have posted up previously is that the 5692 is a 'meh' pairing with Lyr 3.  Not bad, but nothing to write home about.  Best way to describe it is that it is a polite sounding tube -- nothing bad about it, but nothing worth noting on the positive side either.


----------



## earnmyturns

cebuboy said:


> Anybody run a 5692? 6SN7 are getting expensive, good thing you only need one.


Got a NOS 1950 2-hole Sylvania "Bad Boy" from Brent Jessee for $50 (+postage) a while ago, but only testing it now because my home office was under construction and most of my audio  gear was boxed. Liking it a lot on my Lyr 3. A bit more bass-tilted than other, much more expensive, 6SN7s I've liked (NOS Ken Rad VT-231, Psvane 6SN7-SE) but I could easily stick with it as a good, engaging pairing with the Lyr.


----------



## earnmyturns

The battle of the headamps:


earnmyturns said:


> My home office is finally redone with a nice shelf for audio gear and bookshelves for way too many books. Here's the testbench: Lyr 3 on the left, with a just-started-to-burn-in Sylvania two-hole Bad Boy, in the middle the Apex Peak with the Psvane 6SN7-SE, a backwards-connected SYS to allow me to switch between the two amps stacked on the Peak, and on the right a stack of a Metrum Onyx DAC and a Metrum Ambre streamer. Storage cabinets under the bookshelves have room for a good 6SN7 collection  Under the shelf, you may spy power cables going to a Furman power conditioner, and the Peak's DC power cable going to its Volcano LPS.


Battle of the two amps, first round. Listening to a fantastic recent hi-res Linn recording of medieval vocal music _Parle Qui Veut _by Sollazzo Ensemble. Lyr 3+Bad Boy is very engaging, warm without being treacly. However, Peak+Psvane has some extra refinement, getting more of the micro-detail in softer soloist passages, of the fine-grained character of individual voices and breaths, and covering the full dynamic range without fuzziness (which is curious as the Lyr has way more power). If I was not listening so closely, I would probably have missed these differences. 

Need to get my impartial judge (my wife) to do some listening.

Speaking for the Lyr, it cost new less than 1/3 of what the Peak+Volcano LPS cost originally (I got mine used, of course, they haven't been made since 2011 or so). And the Psvane cost 4x the Bad Boy. In other words, the Lyr 3 with a decent NOS tube comes to the neighborhood of 3.5x more expensive gear. Impressive.


----------



## bokononista

Hi guys,
I have Beyerdynamics DT880 250Ω  and tried it with Magni 3 and Vali 2. With Magni 3 it was not a good matchup - too harsh treble. I very liked the Vali 2 sound with stock tube. It took the harsh treble off. I would like to buy something better - should i buy Ly3 with 4490 DAC module or Valhalla 2 with Bifrost 4490?


----------



## auvgeek

jbarrentine said:


> Can anyone comment on Lyr 3 vs Project Polaris?


Also interested in this. Just bought a Polaris cuz I found it one cheap, but still curious about the Lyr3.


----------



## 441879 (Nov 27, 2018)

bokononista said:


> Hi guys,
> I have Beyerdynamics DT880 250Ω  and tried it with Magni 3 and Vali 2. With Magni 3 it was not a good matchup - too harsh treble. I very liked the Vali 2 sound with stock tube. It took the harsh treble off. I would like to buy something better - should i buy Ly3 with 4490 DAC module or Valhalla 2 with Bifrost 4490?



My experience with the Magni 3 is there is something not quite right with the treble, and while “harsh” may be a bit strong (metallic maybe?), it certainly seems to be there. I hear it more on some phones than others, but once noticed, it’s kind of obvious. I don’t hear it with the Lyr 3 at all with any of the tubes I’ve tried. I was using a 4490 based DAC upstream of the Lyr for a while and it sounded great so I don’t think you’ll hear any harshness if you use the module, but YMMV. Never heard a Valhalla so no comments there.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 27, 2018)

If you're set on high impedance HPs like the DT880 250 ohm or HD6XX 300 ohm and don't think you'll be venturing into low impedance HP's, the Valhalla 2 is an incredible amplifier.  As a Class A, Single-ended Triode, OTL amp it has a wonderfully warm tube sound w/o getting all mushy and syrupy.  Given its price, it would pair nicely with a Bifrost MB instead of 4490 with the $$ saved over Lyr 3 to give you an even richer sound.

If you want to keep options open for future low impedance HPs or planars, the Lyr 3 is definitely an easy recommendation as a SS / Tube hybrid.  It does equally well on low or high impedance HPs and is a very potent and smooth sounding amplifier.  A coin-toss as they are both really good amps, but VH2 needs careful HP impedance matching.

I wouldn't sell either of mine.


----------



## bokononista

will f said:


> My experience with the Magni 3 is there is something not quite right with the treble, and while “harsh” may be a bit strong (metallic maybe?), it certainly seems to be there. I hear it more on some phones than others, but once noticed, it’s kind of obvious. I don’t hear it with the Lyr 3 at all with any of the tubes I’ve tried. I was using a 4490 based DAC upstream of the Lyr for a while and it sounded great so I don’t think you’ll hear any harshness if you use the module, but YMMV. Never heard a Valhalla so no comments there.





Ripper2860 said:


> If you're set on high impedance HPs like the DT880 250 ohm or HD6XX 300 ohm and don't think you'll be venturing into low impedance HP's, the Valhalla 2 is an incredible amplifier.  As a Class A, Single-ended Triode, OTL amp it has a wonderfully warm tube sound w/o getting all mushy and syrupy.  Given its price, it would pair nicely with a Bifrost MB instead of 4490 with the $$ saved over Lyr 3 to give you an even richer sound.
> 
> If you want to keep options open for future low impedance HPs or planars, the Lyr 3 is definitely an easy recommendation as a SS / Tube hybrid.  It does equally well on low or high impedance HPs and is a very potent and smooth sounding amplifier.  A coin-toss as they are both really good amps, but VH2 needs careful HP impedance matching.
> 
> I wouldn't sell either of mine.



Guys thanks a lot - very helpful for me


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I wouldn't sell either of mine.



Not even for a million dollars? Crap. Guess I'll have to find something else to do with the money...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 28, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Not even for a million dollars? Crap. Guess I'll have to find something else to do with the money...




Well, maybe for $1,000,000.01

And then I'd have to think about it as it's likely a money laundering or Nigerian Prince scam.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, maybe for $1,000,000.01
> 
> And then I'd have to think about it as it's likely a money laundering or Nigerian Prince scam.


@bcowen is THE Nigerian Prince!


----------



## nicknack40

Seen a few say that the Lyr 3 is better just used as an Amp Is they much difference adding the Module and using it as a Dac Amp Combo to using a a External Dac


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> @bcowen is THE Nigerian Prince!



Prince?  PRINCE?  I'm the friggin' KING!  I used to be a prince....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 28, 2018)

nicknack40 said:


> Seen a few say that the Lyr 3 is better just used as an Amp Is they much difference adding the Module and using it as a Dac Amp Combo to using a a External Dac



External DAC is the way to go, if you can afford the price diff.  Modi MB separately shielded in it's own enclosure and with its own PSU -- plus USB and Optical / Coax S/PDIF are definite advantages.  DAC Card shares PSU, is not as shielded and is only USB, so no chance of using an EITR for isolation .  Those that have compared Modi MB and the MB DAC card also say the external Modi MB sounds better.  (I would imagine the same applies to the 4490 version.)


----------



## earnmyturns

nicknack40 said:


> Seen a few say that the Lyr 3 is better just used as an Amp Is they much difference adding the Module and using it as a Dac Amp Combo to using a a External Dac


Lyr 3 scales well to higher-end DACs than the DAC module. I've used mine with >$2K R2R DACs (Holo Spring level 3, Metrum Onyx) and it really got the quality out of those DACs.


----------



## JamminVMI (Nov 29, 2018)

nicknack40 said:


> Seen a few say that the Lyr 3 is better just used as an Amp Is they much difference adding the Module and using it as a Dac Amp Combo to using a a External Dac


I bought mine sans card, as I exclusively use S/PDIF, and only a separate DAC does that. In addition, no USB Gen 5 (or the upcomingUSB implementation) in the card.

If space or money are at a premium for you, go for it. But if not, my money’s still on separate components. My 2 cents...


----------



## 441879 (Nov 30, 2018)

nicknack40 said:


> Seen a few say that the Lyr 3 is better just used as an Amp Is they much difference adding the Module and using it as a Dac Amp Combo to using a a External Dac


I use an external DAC. I like the ability to mix and match. Plus, it’s nice if your Lyr is off being fixed because you can swap in a spare amp if needed. Speaking of which, I finally couldn’t take listening through my FIIO Q5 anymore and brought my Magni 3 home from work while I wait. While a noticeable step down from the Lyr, it’s a noticeable step up from the Q5.


----------



## earnmyturns (Dec 9, 2018)

Latest tweak on the home office front: the wood-faced gadget between the Metrum stack and the Apex Peak is a Tisbury Audio mini passive preamp. Basically, like a SYS except that it has 3 inputs, two outputs, and a somewhat fancier attenuation setup. Unlike a backwards-wired SYS, I can have both attenuation and two outputs, which allows me to switch between the two amps easily and at the same time attenuate the rather hot Metrum Onyx output so that I can listen to both amps without ear damage with their volume controls at around 12 o'clock.


----------



## 441879

earnmyturns said:


> Latest tweak on the home office front: the wood-faced gadget between the Metrum stack and the Apex Peak is a Tisbury Audio mini massive preamp. Basically, like a SYS except that it has 3 inputs, two outputs, and a somewhat fancier attenuation setup. Unlike a backwards-wired SYS, I can have both attenuation and two outputs, which allows me to switch between the two amps easily and at the same time attenuate the rather hot Metrum Onyx output so that I can listen to both amps without ear damage with their volume controls at around 12 o'clock.



Sounds like just the thing for multiple amps. Of course, the fact that I can see the utility of such a device in no way implies that it will get you any admiration from your significant other.


----------



## earnmyturns

will f said:


> Sounds like just the thing for multiple amps. Of course, the fact that I can see the utility of such a device in no way implies that it will get you any admiration from your significant other.


My wife is super-gracious about this, in fact she's been happy to lend her superior musical ear to the comparisons that keep me climbing the endless audio stairs


----------



## ilikepooters (Dec 4, 2018)

I bought a used Bifrost off eBay and i've got to say it's a lot better than the built in multibit adaptor in Lyr 3.

AK4490 and Gen 5 USB version of the Bifrost.

Seems a bit more detailed and more full sounding, makes the Lyr 3 multibit adaptor sound a little thin and tizzy by comparison.


----------



## JamminVMI

ilikepooters said:


> I bought a used Bifrost off eBay and i've got to say it's a lot better than the built in multibit adaptor in Lyr 3.
> 
> AK4490 and Gen 5 USB version of the Bifrost.
> 
> Seems a bit more detailed and more full sounding, makes the Lyr 3 multibit adaptor sound a little thin and tizzy by comparison.


I, for one, am awfully glad you did that, expensive though it no doubt was. My advocacy for separates was the additional digital inputs, but this takes that and raises the ante... Thanks!


----------



## tafens

So, a basic question:
How long warm-up time (from cold) does the Lyr3 and tube need for best sound?

Follow-up question:
And, how long does the tube itself need to warm-up before sounding its best (like after changing tube)?

Half an hour and five minutes respectively seems to do it for me, but I was wondering how long you guys here usually let it sit before listening?


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> So, a basic question:
> How long warm-up time (from cold) does the Lyr3 and tube need for best sound?
> 
> Follow-up question:
> ...



I've never actually timed it, but I normally let the Lyr warm up for about an hour before I listen. I know it doesn't sound its best after only 10 minutes or so, but at what point after that it gets fully in the groove I'm not sure.  For the tube it's the same. You're switching the amp off to swap the tube and even though it may still be warm to the touch, it needs to go through its full warm-up cycle all over again.  I have no scientific or logical explanation for this, just reporting what I hear...


----------



## nicknack40

Ordered the LYR 3 for my LCD2-C's


----------



## nicknack40

Anybody using the Modi Multibit with there LYR 3?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep.


----------



## nicknack40

Is it an ok Combo Ripper May get the Eitr also for the Multibit


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 8, 2018)

It's a wonderful combo.  I also have an EITR and feel that with this combo (MIMBY/EITR/LYR3) there's no need to upgrade -- unless Schiit introduces a less expensive, single-ended Gumby, Jr DAC, that is.  

Mimby and EITR produce lovely detail and textures, excellent air and space, all emanating for a quiet black background.  And cheaper than Bifrost MB.


----------



## nicknack40

Great Stuff at the Moment im using a M/F V90 DAC and Magni 3 for my LCD2-C for my pc setup but feel i need a change now the v90 is a decent DAC and the Magni 3 is a decent Amp but i wanna change for the Schiit stack i feel my Headphones deserve better and i use my  Active speakers also


----------



## 441879

nicknack40 said:


> Great Stuff at the Moment im using a M/F V90 DAC and Magni 3 for my LCD2-C for my pc setup but feel i need a change now the v90 is a decent DAC and the Magni 3 is a decent Amp but i wanna change for the Schiit stack i feel my Headphones deserve better and i use my  Active speakers also



I think replacing the Magni with a Lyr 3 will make a bigger difference than replacing your DAC, though I will admit I’ve never heard a really high end DAC so my experience is limited. I will say that I did perceive a small difference between my Modi 2U (4490EQ chip) and my Topping D50 (dual ES9038Q2M chips) with the win going to the Topping for better separation of the instruments, but it could all be in my head.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 8, 2018)

The move from Magni 3 to Lyr 3, as stated above, is a rather significant jump in SQ -- one I think you will be very happy with.  The Modi Multibit difference is a noted refinement in textures and tonality for me and the music I listen to -- acoustic instruments as played in Jazz, classical, etc.  To say it is DAY and NIGHT, may be a bit of a stretch, but if your amp and HP are up to the task, Modi Multibit can reveal a nice bit of refinement and improved musicality.  Add EITR and you get a tad more via less 'glare' typical of USB.

As has been stated several times in several threads, it's not so much about the DAC chip as it is the filter used.  The Mike Moffatt designed filter in Modi Multibit is something special in a DAC at that price.  

As always -- YMMV.


----------



## xLoud

Anyone compared THX AAA 789 with Lyr 3? Preferably with HifiMan planars.


----------



## 441879 (Dec 12, 2018)

xLoud said:


> Anyone compared THX AAA 789 with Lyr 3? Preferably with HifiMan planars.



I’d be curious too. My guess is it’s going to be much more neutral and clinical. The Lyr isn’t very tubey, but it probably would sound much more so in comparison.  I’ve thought about getting one myself to see what it would pair well with. I’m thinking an LCD2C.


----------



## nicknack40

The Lyr 3 is suppose to pair well with  the LCD2-C


----------



## bboris77

I have a suggestion for Jason and the team. I just purchased a new Lyr 3 as a straight amp since I already have a separate phono stage and a Modi 3. Therefore, I had no use for the currently available add-in cards.

Why not develop a simple "second RCA input" add-on card? I would have purchased that for my Lyr 3. This way, I would have been able to eliminate the need for a separate switcher (SYS), and simply used the Lyr to switch between the Modi 3 and my standalone phono preamp. Are there any technical limitations to adding a second set of unbalanced RCA inputs using an add-in card to the Lyr/Jot?


----------



## ProfFalkin

(Wild west hillbilly accent...)

Woah, woah!   Hold on there fella.   I don't know what it is you think we do here, but that kind of pragmatic and useful thinking could get you into trouble round these parts.  It confuses @Ripper2860, and we don't take kindly to people who confuse Ripper.



That's a good idea though.   Anything that cuts down on the number of boxes between source and transducer is a good thing in my book.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 13, 2018)

^^^ OK -- Now I'm confused, but I'm not really sure about what.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> ...to people who confuse Ripper.



Which would be, like...everyone?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 13, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> to people who confuse Ripper.





bcowen said:


> Which would be, like...everyone?



15 yard penalty for piling on!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 13, 2018)




----------



## 441879 (Dec 13, 2018)

Today is a great day! 5 weeks ago my Lyr 3 died in a puff of smoke. Today it came back and is once again whispering sweet, sweet sounds in my ears!

Magni 3- back to the office with ya!


----------



## Currawong (Dec 13, 2018)

tafens said:


> So, a basic question:
> How long warm-up time (from cold) does the Lyr3 and tube need for best sound?
> 
> Follow-up question:
> ...



Tubes should be about 10 minutes. Transformers seem to take the longest, so I tend to say an hour. There may be better sound after a few more than that, at least there has been with larger gear than the Lyr 3.



nicknack40 said:


> Anybody using the Modi Multibit with there LYR 3?



Yes. It's a nice combo -- very enjoyable, if you don't get much fine detail, but most music doesn't have much to begin with. I find the combo good for listening while working.



bboris77 said:


> I have a suggestion for Jason and the team. I just purchased a new Lyr 3 as a straight amp since I already have a separate phono stage and a Modi 3. Therefore, I had no use for the currently available add-in cards.
> 
> Why not develop a simple "second RCA input" add-on card? I would have purchased that for my Lyr 3. This way, I would have been able to eliminate the need for a separate switcher (SYS), and simply used the Lyr to switch between the Modi 3 and my standalone phono preamp. Are there any technical limitations to adding a second set of unbalanced RCA inputs using an add-in card to the Lyr/Jot?



@Jason Stoddard Ping! I just know you'd love to add yet another SKU to the list.


----------



## quimbo

Looking for recommendations on powered speakers to hook up to the Lyr 3, budget of 400 to 500.  Current setup for speakers is a Tweak City Gizmo class D amp.  I use a Schiit SYS to switch between the Gizmo and the Lyr 3. Ideally the powered speakers would have Sub Woofer out so I can hook up my Onix Rocket UFW-10 Subwoofer.

Considering the AudioEngine A5+ Classics, I have seen conflicting reviews on these.  Also considering KLIPSCH R-15PM

Thank you...q


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 15, 2018)

Perhaps the speaker forum could help you better?

Edit: Looks like HF doesn't have one.   I use the JBL 308 out of a Jotunheim, if that helps.


----------



## quimbo

ProfFalkin said:


> Perhaps the speaker forum could help you better?
> 
> Edit: Looks like HF doesn't have one.   I use the JBL 308 out of a Jotunheim, if that helps.



How is each connected?  For the AudioEngine one speaker is connected to the other.  Looking at pictures of the JBL these is not the same setup.  Do you connect each speaker directly to the Jot?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Connected via 3 pin XLR cables from my Gumby to the Jot, and the same from the Jot to the JBLs.


----------



## quimbo

ProfFalkin said:


> Connected via 3 pin XLR cables from my Gumby to the Jot, and the same from the Jot to the JBLs.


Thank you.  Found a manual for the older LSR 308.    I think I am going with the JBL.  interesting that the Lyr 3 does not have XLR


----------



## ProfFalkin

quimbo said:


> Thank you.  Found a manual for the older LSR 308.    I think I am going with the JBL.  interesting that the Lyr 3 does not have XLR


It's not a balanced amp.  It is single ended.


----------



## quimbo

ProfFalkin said:


> It's not a balanced amp.  It is single ended.


Been ill for a few days and not thinking clearly.


----------



## ProfFalkin

quimbo said:


> Been ill for a few days and not thinking clearly.


No worries.  I'm trying to answer while watching football.  The length of my replies are usually longer


----------



## bboris77

Hi everyone. I just got my new Lyr 3 with a Tung Sol tube and am very happy to report that I cannot hear any pops when the amp is turned on or off. I hear a very soft relay click 40 seconds after the amp is turned on, and this is only if I put my ear right next to the amp. There is nothing heard through the headphones on any gain level, or volume setting. I even used my high sensitivity low impedance headphones and there was no pop. 

I used to own the Vali 2 and there was definitely a semi loud pop on it approximately 15 seconds after turning it on. The Vali also has a low-level heater hum on the high gain with sensitive headphones. I can’t hear any such hum with the Lyr 3. 

Another thing to report is how quiet the background is even with the volume turned all the way up on high gain. This is using the Modi 3. Super impressive for a high power tube amp. My area is close to an airport so quite often tube amps pick up the local radar interference which manifests itself as faint periodic clicking. I had to return the Mani because of it and sold my Bottlehead Crack because of the same issue as well. The Lyr 3 is dead silent. Perhaps it’s the fact that the tube sits so deep and is protected from RFI. 

I did have to use the EB Tech HumX to isolate the amp from the ground that is being polluted by my Nvidia GPU that is connected to the same circuit. It was only audible on higher volumes than one would ever use, but just wanted to state it to help anyone that may have the same issue. I have had the same issue with any amp that uses a theee prong power cord. There are a few ways to solve this type of coil whine pollution to the ground:

1. Use the optical out on your PC.
2. Get a Gen 5 USB DAC which isolates the USB connection from the noisy ground. 
3. Get an amp that has a 2 prong power bar, like the Magni 3 or Vali 2. 
4. Get a HumX.
5. Get a new GPU, but that is a crapshoot because so many of them emit coil whine and pollute the shared ground. 

Hope this helps anyone that is having similar issues.


----------



## bcowen

bboris77 said:


> Hi everyone. I just got my new Lyr 3 with a Tung Sol tube and am very happy to report that I cannot hear any pops when the amp is turned on or off. I hear a very soft relay click 40 seconds after the amp is turned on, and this is only if I put my ear right next to the amp. There is nothing heard through the headphones on any gain level, or volume setting. I even used my high sensitivity low impedance headphones and there was no pop.
> 
> I used to own the Vali 2 and there was definitely a semi loud pop on it approximately 15 seconds after turning it on. The Vali also has a low-level heater hum on the high gain with sensitive headphones. I can’t hear any such hum with the Lyr 3.
> 
> ...



Good info, and thanks for sharing! A couple additional solutions below. Note that the Hydra is currently on sale.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 16, 2018)

The Hydra is a steal at that price!

I already have two, and don't need a third, unfortunately.


----------



## earnmyturns

bcowen said:


> Good info, and thanks for sharing! A couple additional solutions below. Note that the Hydra is currently on sale.


You gotta be kidding, or else you live next to an aluminum smelter  Furman Elite-15i's is as far as I'll go down the clean power obsession path...


----------



## FLTWS

earnmyturns said:


> You gotta be kidding, or else you live next to an aluminum smelter  Furman Elite-15i's is as far as I'll go down the clean power obsession path...



LOL! There always comes a point where I say I won't be able to look at myself in the mirror if...


----------



## bcowen

earnmyturns said:


> You gotta be kidding, or else you live next to an aluminum smelter  Furman Elite-15i's is as far as I'll go down the clean power obsession path...



What...is it the price?  My 8' speaker cables cost more than that...

J/K. I used to dump big money on such stuff, but then somehow I got old. Probably not wisdom though...just proximity to retirement.


----------



## earnmyturns

bcowen said:


> J/K. I used to dump big money on such stuff, but then somehow I got old. Probably not wisdom though...just proximity to retirement.


I spend plenty of $$$ on a narrow range of gear (DACs, amps, transducers, skis, mountaineering) and services (live music, mountain guiding, training/physical therapy) in support of my two vices -- music listening, backcountry skiing -- but I draw the line where the tail starts wagging the dog. That power conditioner would cost way more than my full headphone stack, which is no slouch.


----------



## ProfFalkin

earnmyturns said:


> I spend plenty of $$$ on a narrow range of gear (DACs, amps, transducers, skis, mountaineering) and services (live music, mountain guiding, training/physical therapy) in support of my two vices -- music listening, backcountry skiing -- but I draw the line where the tail starts wagging the dog. That power conditioner would cost way more than my full headphone stack, which is no slouch.


But everything would be more betterer with it!   What a bargain!   Hehehe


----------



## earnmyturns (Dec 17, 2018)

ProfFalkin said:


> But everything would be more betterer with it!   What a bargain!   Hehehe


I've probably already gone in my audio gear well beyond what I can reliably distinguish by listening to any music I care about. Just to give you an example, I decided to listen today to Lyr 3 + 2-hole Sylvania Bad Boy instead of the much pricier Apex Peak+Volcano+Psvane 6SN7-SE. Really enjoying it. If I could convince my keen-hearing better half to do some comparative listening once again, she would likely reconfirm that the pricier setup is better, but basically I am at the limit of experimental error in deciding among headphone audio stacks, even without magical power conditioning.


----------



## 441879

earnmyturns said:


> I've probably already gone in my audio gear well beyond what I can reliably distinguish by listening to any music I care about. Just to give you an example, I decided to listen today to Lyr 3 + 2-hole Sylvania Bad Boy instead of the much pricier Apex Peak+Volcano+Psvane 6SN7-SE. Really enjoying it. If I could convince my keen-hearing better half to do some comparative listening once gain, she would likely reconfirm that the pricier setup is better, but basically I am at the limit of experimental error in deciding among headphone audio stacks, even without magical power conditioning.



I think I’m there too. To the extent that I do hear differences, subjective preference rather than objective realism define my choices.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi Guys,

I left the Lyr 3 Family after a couple minor issuses, that were rectified immediately by Schiit. Long story short, I have a poop load of great 6SN7 tubes, “Bad Boy” included, PM me for a list of tubes and we can figure out a fair price.


----------



## bboris77

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know what the input impedance is on the Lyr 3? All of Schiit's other amps have both their input and output impedances listed, except the Lyr 3.


----------



## bboris77

FYI, I just heard from their tech team and they confirmed that the input impedance for the Lyr 3 is 50K ohms.


----------



## xLoud

First of all don't ban me for asking this question. 
I have read 3-4 cases of headphone getting killed by Schiit Lyr 3. It don't know if there was problem with tube or the DC killed the headphone. Has Schiit solved this problem? I am thinking to buy one but I am not sure after reading all these headphones issues.


----------



## tafens

xLoud said:


> First of all don't ban me for asking this question.
> I have read 3-4 cases of headphone getting killed by Schiit Lyr 3. It don't know if there was problem with tube or the DC killed the headphone. Has Schiit solved this problem? I am thinking to buy one but I am not sure after reading all these headphones issues.



I haven’theard about this with regard to the Lyr3, but I remember reading about a similar issue with the original Asgard. I think the first Asgard let out DC when it was powered off in some cases, and that’s was why the muting relay has been included since in all their amps. The muting relay cuts off the headphone from the amplifier circuit immediately on power off and delays connecting the headphones on power on until the amplifier circuit has stabilised.

I haven’t had any such problems with the Lyr3, but I guess a bad or failing tube could cause any number of strange things, some of them more or less bad. 

However, isn’t there some protection built in for failing tubes so they couldn’t cause damage the amp or connected headphones? Anyone know?


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 22, 2018)

xLoud said:


> First of all don't ban me for asking this question.
> I have read 3-4 cases of headphone getting killed by Schiit Lyr 3. It don't know if there was problem with tube or the DC killed the headphone. Has Schiit solved this problem? I am thinking to buy one but I am not sure after reading all these headphones issues.


I read (somewhere else) the same question which was answered by Jason at Schiit.  Basically, the response was that there have been no abnormally high number of failures, nor any specific situations they could find where failures would definitely occur in the Lyr 3 and cause amp or headphone destruction.

IMO, I think what you are seeing is either the vocal minority, or a very specific and rare set of circumstances triggering failures.  I don't know which, and I suspect the former is more likely.

_Edit - I have also been in private messages with a single individual who had one fail and eat his headphones, and can confirm they said that Schiit completely took care of them in regards to the amp and headphone replacement._

I've had mine plugged in all over the place - work, home, 3 different friends houses, etc. - with over 20 different tubes having been plugged into it, including some tubes that were confirmed bad after the fact (as in bad solder in pins and one with a vaccuum failure) and mine has not given me a single issue.


----------



## xLoud

If need to take some precaution while using Lyr 3 we should be informed before hand. One DIYer told me not to switch on the tube amp while headphone connected. Schiit should inform us.


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 22, 2018)

I've had no issues to date with the LYR3 but have ingrained a habit where I always disconnect the phones first before turning off my amp(s) of choice for the day, DAC, and CD transport, and only plug in phones after everything before it in the chain is warmed up a bit.

I do a lot of A/B comparisons with sound meter matched levels and I don't always turn the volume levels down to off (I just leave them where they are at) when I shut down my gear for the day so I can pick up the next day without spending any time re-measuring levels. I have had no issues with this process for 3 full years with any amp or HP, as long as I unplug the phones (and have the CD player paused first).

One Head-Fi contact of mine had a LYR3 die twice taking his HP's and a replacement pair both times. I guess there can always be a unique set of circumstances that can lead to unwanted results.


----------



## bcowen

xLoud said:


> If need to take some precaution while using Lyr 3 we should be informed before hand. One DIYer told me not to switch on the tube amp while headphone connected. Schiit should inform us.



I think the Professor summed it up quite nicely already. How many thousands of Lyr 3's are in service compared to a very few with reported failures? What is NOT known in any of these cases is whether the Lyr itself failed or whether the _tube_ failed and subsequently took out the Lyr and/or 'phones. I've never had a need to test Schiit's customer service, but from everything I've read they respond quickly and they take care of the situation...completely. If there were a design or engineering issue with the Lyr 3, it would stand to reason they would correct it rather than deal with the costs of repair/replacement and possible reimbursement of 'phones and ancillary equipment.

I've had my Lyr 3 for 9 months now with no issues whatsoever.  I always turn the volume down to zero before turning on/off as a matter of long ingrained habit, but I've never disconnected my 'phones. Nothing wrong with doing that as an extra precaution obviously, but _not _doing it hasn't resulted in problems either.


----------



## earnmyturns (Dec 22, 2018)

xLoud said:


> If need to take some precaution while using Lyr 3 we should be informed before hand. One DIYer told me not to switch on the tube amp while headphone connected. Schiit should inform us.


I own an early Lyr 3 (March 2018). I've used it a lot with multiple tubes, both new (Tung-Sol, PSvane) and old (Sylvania, Ken Rad). My MrSpeakers headphones always plugged in until I got a different amp I also use. Zero issues. But you should remember that old vacuum tubes can fail in many different ways, and some of those ways can generate large voltage pulses. Schiit are not babysitters, they expect their customers to be responsible adults who understand what they are getting into with 70 year-old tubes (like the 40s Ken Rad I have) and also take care to feed good power to gear (yes, power surges are a thing).


----------



## bboris77

FLTWS said:


> I've had no issues to date with the LYR3 but have ingrained a habit where I always disconnect the phones first before turning off my amp(s) of choice for the day, DAC, and CD transport, and only plug in phones after everything before it in the chain is warmed up a bit.
> 
> I do a lot of A/B comparisons with sound meter matched levels and I don't always turn the volume levels down to off (I just leave them where they are at) when I shut down my gear for the day so I can pick up the next day without spending any time re-measuring levels. I have had no issues with this process for 3 full years with any amp or HP, as long as I unplug the phones (and have the CD player paused first).
> 
> One Head-Fi contact of mine had a LYR3 die twice taking his HP's and a replacement pair both times. I guess there can always be a unique set of circumstances that can lead to unwanted results.



It is entirely possible that there may have been a small batch of Lyr 3 amps with defective relays which would explain a very limited number of failures. Otherwise, there would be hundreds of these reports rather than 4-5. I trust Jason when he says these failures are well within the normal range.

What I do with any tube amp when testing a new tube is use my cheapest pair of headphones just in case the tube itself is defective. And, obviously don’t plug and unplug the tube while the amp is on.


----------



## 441879

With great power comes risk. 

I think the reason you hear stories about Lyr3 eating headphones is because they’re probably true. The thing can put out 9 W at 16 Ohms. 

If an input to the amp or component failure in the gain stage occurs and causes a big spike in voltage,the Lyr3 can produce the kind of power that will trash almost any headphone instantly. 

That said, my Lyr3 died with a pair of AFOs plugged in. The AFOs were fine.


----------



## bcowen

bboris77 said:


> It is entirely possible that there may have been a small batch of Lyr 3 amps with defective relays which would explain a very limited number of failures. Otherwise, there would be hundreds of these reports rather than 4-5. I trust Jason when he says these failures are well within the normal range.
> 
> What I do with any tube amp when testing a new tube is use my cheapest pair of headphones just in case the tube itself is defective. And, obviously don’t plug and unplug the tube while the amp is on.



The best way to test tubes is with a tube tester.  

Seriously, a lot of folks that roll tubes don't think twice about dropping $50 - $100 on a tube or pair of tubes on Ebay and you can get a decent emission tester for about the same. A GM tester is better, but a basic emission tester will test for shorts and interelement leakage (that can kill your amp) plus give you a good indication of the tube's output. I would never stick an Ebay-sourced tube in my Lyr without testing it first regardless of the seller's feedback or what they claim.


----------



## Mike-WI

I know very little about tubes. I currently just have the Vali 2. 
What are good tube testers?


----------



## bcowen

Mike-WI said:


> I know very little about tubes. I currently just have the Vali 2.
> What are good tube testers?



Depends on how deep you want to go into this rabbit hole.   The best testers are ones that test the tube for mutual conductance -- a GM tester. I prefer the Hickoks, but they are typically pricier than most. B&K is another good brand that usually sell for less than the Hickoks but have fewer features (in general). For basic testing to be sure there are no shorts or other fatal flaws in a tube, an emissions tester will do the job. Lots of options in emissions-only testers, and they are usually quite a bit cheaper than GM testers. A Sencore Mighty Mite (several versions) has a reputation of being one of the best for shorts and leakage testing. So many options and so many things to look for it's impossible to cover even the surface of it here. If you (or anyone else) are seriously considering a tester, PM me and I'll be most happy to share what I know. I'm not an expert by _any_ stretch of the imagination, but have played around with testers for quite some time and have learned a few things....some the hard way.


----------



## kiwivda

Hi shiny people, my Lyr 3 is waiting in a gift box in front of me underneath the christmass tree, and for the occasion I just bought the HiFi Man Sundara to let him express at his best. But concerning the gear I already own, AKG K701, K3003 and Grado SR125 which one wuold be the one taking more advantages by upgrading from my actual Asus Xonar STX.


----------



## bcowen

kiwivda said:


> Hi shiny people, my Lyr 3 is waiting in a gift box in front of me underneath the christmass tree, and for the occasion I just bought the HiFi Man Sundara to let him express at his best. But concerning the gear I already own, AKG K701, K3003 and Grado SR125 which one wuold be the one taking more advantages by upgrading from my actual Asus Xonar STX.



Shiny people?  You must be referring to @Ripper2860 

I'm envious of the Santa that visits your house. I'm probably just getting socks.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, I do Shine bright like a diamond!!  

BTW -- I have no experience with the HPs listed...


----------



## ProfFalkin

kiwivda said:


> Hi shiny people, my Lyr 3 is waiting in a gift box in front of me underneath the christmass tree, and for the occasion I just bought the HiFi Man Sundara to let him express at his best. But concerning the gear I already own, AKG K701, K3003 and Grado SR125 which one wuold be the one taking more advantages by upgrading from my actual Asus Xonar STX.


The K701 will scale more with better gear, for sure.   The others (probably) not much at all.   I found that the 701, K7XX, and the other AKG cans in that line needs power to really shine, and the Lyr 3 has that in spades.   The only Grado I've owned were the sr80's, and they couldn't care less about what you plugged them into.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I do Shine bright like a diamond!!



We weren't talking about the top of your head.


----------



## kiwivda

ProfFalkin said:


> The K701 will scale more with better gear, for sure.   The others (probably) not much at all.   I found that the 701, K7XX, and the other AKG cans in that line needs power to really shine, and the Lyr 3 has that in spades.   The only Grado I've owned were the sr80's, and they couldn't care less about what you plugged them into.



Good to know, and I totally agree. Concerning the GRADO no matter what I throw at them, those sounds always pretty the same. The AKG are undoubtely  the ones that will get the most  from the upgrade.
But what I was wandering the most is what will be the reaction with my new HiFiMan Sundara.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 22, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> Good to know, and I totally agree. Concerning the GRADO no matter what I throw at them, those sounds always pretty the same. The AKG are undoubtely  the ones that will get the most  from the upgrade.
> But what I was wandering the most is what will be the reaction with my new HiFiMan Sundara.


I have never met a planar headphone that didn't want more power.   It goes beyond that though.  You're starting to get into headphones that are less forgiving toward their source and chain.

I didn't particularly care for the Sundara when I had it on loan for a week.  I like warmer headphones.  With that said, if the headphones you listed are any indication of your preferences, I think the Sundara will be fantastic for you.

I also had that sound card, and would advise a dedicated solution as your next upgrade.  It's a better card than anything Soundblaster sells, but it's still outclassed by DACs like the Modi MB, Massdrop SDAC, etc.


----------



## kiwivda

ProfFalkin said:


> I have never met a planar headphone that didn't want more power.   It goes beyond that though.  You're starting to get into headphones that are less forgiving toward their source and chain.
> 
> I didn't particularly care for the Sundara when I had it on loan for a week.  I like warmer headphones.  With that said, if the headphones you listed are any indication of your preferences, I think the Sundara will be fantastic for you.
> 
> I also had that sound card, and would advise a dedicated solution as your next upgrade.  It's a better card than anything Soundblaster sells, but it's still outclassed by DACs like the Modi MB, Massdrop SDAC, etc.



Thank you so much, I think the path is clear, and my first impression with the sundara is that it mixes upall the benefit from both the k701 and SR125 but adding a sparkling plus that I still cannot figure out, but I love it. And yes my preference go to more neutral and controlled headphones with grat detail.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> We weren't talking about the top of your head.



I have quite an effective comb-over working, so no fear of blinding anyone.


----------



## earnmyturns (Dec 22, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> Thank you so much, I think the path is clear, and my first impression with the sundara is that it mixes upall the benefit from both the k701 and SR125 but adding a sparkling plus that I still cannot figure out, but I love it. And yes my preference go to more neutral and controlled headphones with grat detail.


In the Schiit catalog, Jotunheim and Lyr 3 (with a good tube) are good bookends for neutral-ish planars. I use MrSpeakers closed planars (Ether C Flow at home, Æon Closed at work). Jotunheim is on the hard-edged, unforgiving end of the spectrum, Lyr 3 is less hard-edged but still dynamic when asked by the source material. I’d not say Lyr 3 is warm, but its softer edges make it less stern, more relaxed for long listening.


----------



## FLTWS

That's exactly my take on a sound comparison of Jotunheim and LYR3 as well.


----------



## Ripper2860

I wonder what it would sound like to use the Lyr 3 as a tube buffer for Jot ….


DAC -->  Lyr 3 --> Jot --> HPs


----------



## ProfFalkin

Cheaper to build a sagaheim.   (Saga into Jotunheim.)  I had this and it was a great combo, it took the edges off and added head stage.   More functional as well, with all the inputs /outputs and remote control.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 22, 2018)

Cool.  I was wondering if anyone that already had a Lyr 3 and Jot had tried it for Schiits and Giggles.  I agree that SagaHeim would accomplish the same for less.  Nice to know that it is a noticeable improvement.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> Cool.  I was wondering if anyone that already had a Lyr 3 and Jot had tried it for Schiits and Giggles.  I agree that SagaHeim would accomplish the same for less.  Nice to know that it is a noticeable improvement.


Add a bifrost MB and you've got one of the better setups for the $ I can think of.


----------



## Ripper2860

Very nice.  A Saga is on my Schiit list for my 2-channel setup.  I think I'm pretty well set on my HP setup with Lyr 3.  I am spending more time listening to Valhalla 2, however.


----------



## Ripper2860

@ProfFalkin  -- What is the tube amp on the left in your image?  A Feliks Audio?


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> @ProfFalkin  -- What is the tube amp on the left in your image?  A Feliks Audio?


2016 Feliks Elise.


----------



## Ripper2860

The Elise is definitely on my list.  I've really come to like the sound of an all tube OTL amp.


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> Hi shiny people, my Lyr 3 is waiting in a gift box in front of me underneath the christmass tree, and for the occasion I just bought the HiFi Man Sundara to let him express at his best. But concerning the gear I already own, AKG K701, K3003 and Grado SR125 which one wuold be the one taking more advantages by upgrading from my actual Asus Xonar STX.


Your AKG’s will absolutely shine. I have the K7xx, and they were a completely new, more revealing experience with Lyr!

Happy Christmas!


----------



## ProfFalkin (Dec 23, 2018)

Ripper2860 said:


> The Elise is definitely on my list.  I've really come to like the sound of an all tube OTL amp.


I would suggest going straight to a Glenn, DNA, or Eddy Current amp then.   IMO, most everything that sits between the Valhalla 2 / BHC and those amps are rather poor to mediocre upgrades in value or sound.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks.  That certainly puts things in a completely different perspective.  Maybe the route to go would be to build a BHC with mods and careful HQ component selection.


----------



## kiwivda (Dec 23, 2018)

Thanks to all of you. Since in the gift box I know for sure there are both the tubes available in the Schiit store, the NOS and the TUNG-SOL, with which one do you suggest me to start the amp to have a warmish sounding represantetion?

Ah and Happy Christmas from Italy!


----------



## 441879 (Dec 23, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> Thanks to all of you. Since in the gift box I know for sure there are both the tubes available in the Schiit store, the NOS and the TUNG-SOL, with which one do you suggest me to start the amp to have a warmish sounding represantetion?
> 
> Ah and Happy Christmas from Italy!



IMHO The Tung-Sol, but that’s just my opinion. Try the below thread link. All the info you ever wanted to know (and more) about tubes for the Lyr 3. Just keep in mind it’s a dangerous place. Some of the more frequent posters are a little unhinged. 


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/page-1


----------



## tafens

kiwivda said:


> Thanks to all of you. Since in the gift box I know for sure there are both the tubes available in the Schiit store, the NOS and the TUNG-SOL, with which one do you suggest me to start the amp to have a warmish sounding represantetion?
> 
> Ah and Happy Christmas from Italy!



Try the NOS first, and then switch to the TUNG-SOL to experience better imaging, separation and detail. I did so, and after listening to the TUNG-SOL for a while I put the NOS on the shelf and haven’t looked back.

Merry Christmas to you too!


----------



## ilikepooters

will f said:


> Some of the more frequent posters are a little unhinged.


----------



## ProfFalkin

will f said:


> Some of the more frequent posters are a little unhinged.


I prefer the term "touched".


----------



## Ripper2860

will f said:


> Some of the more frequent posters are a little unhinged.





ProfFalkin said:


> I prefer the term "touched".



Yeah, they are bit...   Hey, wait.  What?


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah, they are bit...   Hey, wait.  What?



Present company excepted of course.  Or should it be “present company accepted”?

Oh well. English never was my strongest subject.


----------



## mysticstryk

ProfFalkin said:


> I would suggest going straight to a Glenn, DNA, or Eddy Current amp then.   IMO, most everything that sits between the Valhalla 2 / BHC and those amps are rather poor to mediocre upgrades in value or sound.



Quoting for truth. Buy a Vali 2 or Valhalla 2 or something then save up to get an amp from one of the boutique manufacturers. Everything in between just serves to cost you more money in the long run. Same goes for DACs. Buy a Modi something and save for a Gumby/Yggy or Spring dac, etc.


----------



## Ripper2860

Already have a Modi MB and a Valhalla 2 (and a Lyr 3) so I'll just sit pat and wait for a SE Gumby, Jr.  While I save for a true OTL tube amp upgrade


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Just a reminder, I’ve spoken to several guys here, but I’m liquidating my vast supply of 6SN7s, PM me if you want a copy of the revised list.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wait!!   Where's the list???


----------



## 441879

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Just a reminder, I’ve spoken to several guys here, but I’m liquidating my vast supply of 6SN7s, PM me if you want a copy of the revised list.



Sent you a pm last Wednesday. Never got a response.


----------



## Ripper2860

Never got the PM.  Can you resend to @Ripper2860?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

will f said:


> Sent you a pm last Wednesday. Never got a response.





will f said:


> Sent you a pm last Wednesday. Never got a response.



My apologies, please drop me an email at kheine2018@icloud.com and I’ll send you the list.


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> Thanks to all of you. Since in the gift box I know for sure there are both the tubes available in the Schiit store, the NOS and the TUNG-SOL, with which one do you suggest me to start the amp to have a warmish sounding represantetion?
> 
> Ah and Happy Christmas from Italy!


Start with the NOS, oddly, I like the soundstage with it better than the Tung Sol, but the Tung Sol is more detailed, if that helps. In my opinion, anyhow...

Enjoy, e buon Natale!


----------



## 441879

Wildcatsare1 said:


> My apologies, please drop me an email at kheine2018@icloud.com and I’ll send you the list.



Will do.  Thanks,  Will


----------



## kiwivda

Ok I know, but now the Lyr 3 has been settled up and ok new amp, new tube and relatively new headphone, but What, there'snt any difference between the Asus Xonar STX  and the Lyr, and no difference between  the Multibit DAC into the Lyr and mi Samsung Note 8 Plugged into RCA with ab swapping... but but just dropped 1000 Euros for noting?
Setting all the sources at the same SPL produce always the same quality of sound, the only difference is that on Lyr I can go further with the volume, but it's really not necessary.
Boh I will give it a try in the next few month with oter headphones and with the SUPRA cables that I'm waiting for. Yes by now it's connected with some usb and rca standard cables i had around, but a new and better cable cannot make a big difference in my experience.

Here are some pics of mounting the Multibit DAC and building an italian power cable instead of the german one that I hate.


----------



## xLoud

kiwivda said:


> Ok I know, but now the Lyr 3 has been settled up and ok new amp, new tube and relatively new headphone, but What, there'snt any difference between the Asus Xonar STX  and the Lyr, and no difference between  the Multibit DAC into the Lyr and mi Samsung Note 8 Plugged into RCA with ab swapping... but but just dropped 1000 Euros for noting?
> Setting all the sources at the same SPL produce always the same quality of sound, the only difference is that on Lyr I can go further with the volume, but it's really not necessary.
> Boh I will give it a try in the next few month with oter headphones and with the SUPRA cables that I'm waiting for. Yes by now it's connected with some usb and rca standard cables i had around, but a new and better cable cannot make a big difference in my experience.
> 
> Here are some pics of mounting the Multibit DAC and building an italian power cable instead of the german one that I hate.


What headphone you are using now?


----------



## kiwivda

First listening with HiFi Man Sundara. I own AKG K701, GRADO SR125. As IEM I also own AKG K3003, Sennheiser IE80 and some BOSE .


----------



## xLoud

kiwivda said:


> First listening with HiFi Man Sundara. I own AKG K701, GRADO SR125. As IEM I also own AKG K3003, Sennheiser IE80 and some BOSE .


I should look at THX AAA 789 then.


----------



## bcowen

kiwivda said:


> Ok I know, but now the Lyr 3 has been settled up and ok new amp, new tube and relatively new headphone, but What, there'snt any difference between the Asus Xonar STX  and the Lyr, and no difference between  the Multibit DAC into the Lyr and mi Samsung Note 8 Plugged into RCA with ab swapping... but but just dropped 1000 Euros for noting?
> Setting all the sources at the same SPL produce always the same quality of sound, the only difference is that on Lyr I can go further with the volume, but it's really not necessary.
> Boh I will give it a try in the next few month with oter headphones and with the SUPRA cables that I'm waiting for. Yes by now it's connected with some usb and rca standard cables i had around, but a new and better cable cannot make a big difference in my experience.
> 
> Here are some pics of mounting the Multibit DAC and building an italian power cable instead of the german one that I hate.



If there's no audible difference between the Lyr's multibit DAC card and the DAC in your phone, something is seriously wrong.


----------



## kiwivda (Dec 26, 2018)

I don't think so, everything seems to work fine, and the amp is amplifying. But no magic with the Sundara, I will move forward to other headphones.

Edit: Ok, always with the Sundara I've swapped to the TUNG-SOL, something really good is happening to the sound, more punch, more clarity, but concerning the DAC, it's just useful to have all in one, but I cannot feel any difference from The Asus Xonar feeding the Lyr3 amp or the Note 8 or the Multibit itself. Maybe it's just too subtle for me to hear it.

Edit 2: I can barely hear some crackle and pops like a turntable audio from this TUNG-SOL tube, is it normal?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 26, 2018)

That does not seem normal.  The Tung-sol is a new re-issue and not a vintage NOS tube.  May be worth a quick e-mail to Schiit support.

BTW -- new tubes such as the ones Schiit sells, do change their sound characteristics over time.  Typically a good 60 hours of burn-in (music with a several thermal power-off/cool down/power-on heat-up cycles) before they settle in and arrive at their final sound profile.  Sometime it is quite noticeable and can move ones initial assessment from 'meh' to 'very nice'!!  Give it time.

Sundara needs 100-150 hours burn-in.  When I had mine, it improved quite a bit over time.

Can't say much about the MB DAC card (I have an External Modi MB) other than to say most folks in-the-know say opt for no card and get an external Modi MB.  The difference is much in the external DACs favor based on reports I've read.

Be patient.  I think it'll reveal its full potential in time.


----------



## ilikepooters (Dec 26, 2018)

Lyr 3 Multibit card underwhelmed me vs Bifrost 4490, Lyr 3 Multibit card sounds thin and less resolving.

Also make sure to manually check for driver updates with Lyr 3 multibit card, i was stuck using windows default drivers and had no idea


----------



## rgmffn (Dec 26, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> Ok I know, but now the Lyr 3 has been settled up and ok new amp, new tube and relatively new headphone, but What, there'snt any difference between the Asus Xonar STX  and the Lyr, and no difference between  the Multibit DAC into the Lyr and mi Samsung Note 8 Plugged into RCA with ab swapping... but but just dropped 1000 Euros for noting?
> Setting all the sources at the same SPL produce always the same quality of sound, the only difference is that on Lyr I can go further with the volume, but it's really not necessary.
> Boh I will give it a try in the next few month with oter headphones and with the SUPRA cables that I'm waiting for. Yes by now it's connected with some usb and rca standard cables i had around, but a new and better cable cannot make a big difference in my experience.
> 
> Here are some pics of mounting the Multibit DAC and building an italian power cable instead of the german one that I hate.



I don't care what anyone else thinks, but if you are using those cheap cables that come free with any run of the mill Chinese electronic device, you are choking the life out of your music!  Especially on the analog side.


----------



## kiwivda

rgmffn said:


> I don't care what anyone else thinks, but if you are using those cheap cables that come free with any run of the mill Chinese electronic device, you are choking the life out of your music!  Especially on the analog side.



Supra rca and usb cables are coming. I will tell you later how much they do any difference.


----------



## bcowen

rgmffn said:


> I don't care what anyone else thinks, but if you are using those cheap cables that come free with any run of the mill Chinese electronic device, you are choking the life out of your music!  Especially on the analog side.



Agree completely.


----------



## kiwivda

Ok cables have joined the party. I have hooked the Lyr3 to the usb2 port on my pc (straight back from the mobo) with a this Supra USB Cable and to my REGA Elex-r Rec Out with this RCA interconnection cable. No difference at all for the usb, something really negligible for the RCA. So cables are really not the reason. I start thinking that my previous config was so good that this upgrade was really not needed. Anyway I will tell you more in a couple of month of listening when i'll revert to my old Asus Xonar to see if I will hear a some quality decreasing.
By now I can only assume that a good sound card do not need upgrades.


----------



## funch

Has anyone used a 6SL7 tube with the Lry 3? (Too lazy to read thru 116 pages.)


----------



## kiwivda (Dec 30, 2018)

Something strange is happening. Sound came and goes, and I hear a tiny clik like a relè switching on and off. Could be a overheating protection? But its winter , how can I manage Summer? Do I have to put a fan on it?


----------



## Ripper2860

Not normal at all and unlikely heat related.  Have you tried a different tube?  Unplug your HPs and all sources and preamp out and see if it does this with nothing connected except tubes.


----------



## 441879 (Dec 30, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> Something strange is happening. Sound came and goes, and I hear a tiny clik like a relè switching on and off. Could be a overheating protection? But its winter , how can I manage Summer? Do I have to put a fan on it?





Ripper2860 said:


> Not normal at all and unlikely heat related.  Have you tried a different tube?  Unplug your HPs and all sources and preamp out and see if it does this with nothing connected except tubes.



Definitely not normal. As Ripper says, verify it’s not something else (tube, DAC, HP, etc). Once you’re sure it’s the amp, request a return number from Schiit and send it back for repair. It takes about 3-4 weeks with shipping which sucks, but Schiit will take care of you.

Will

Edit: This is kind of obvious but also make sure you don’t have the Lyr on top of a heat source or enclosed in something that could over heat it (like in an unventilated enclosure). The unit should be fine in a 90 degree F space, but it is possible to overheat it if there’s no free air movement around it.


----------



## kiwivda

I think  I've found who to blame! I've disabled windows 10 USB power management for the lyr port and it seem to be fine. Tell you more in a while.


----------



## bcowen

kiwivda said:


> Something strange is happening. Sound came and goes, and I hear a tiny clik like a relè switching on and off. Could be a overheating protection? But its winter , how can I manage Summer? Do I have to put a fan on it?



This would probably do the trick this summer. Shipping may be high though...

https://www.bigassfans.com/fans/powerfoil-x30/


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> This would probably do the trick this summer. Shipping may be high though...
> 
> https://www.bigassfans.com/fans/powerfoil-x30/


Can I run it from my system's LPS?


----------



## 441879

ProfFalkin said:


> Can I run it from my system's LPS?



Probably not. A fan that big could probably turn your house into a helicopter if you mounted it on the roof and fed it enough power.


----------



## ProfFalkin

will f said:


> Probably not. A fan that big could probably turn your house into a helicopter if you mounted it on the roof and fed it enough power.


This has just become a personal imperative.   Must build helicopter house.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> This has just become a personal imperative.   Must build helicopter house.



The millennial version of a mobile home?


----------



## garysohn

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0119/Schiit_Jotunheim_Lyr3_Review.htm


----------



## ilikepooters (Dec 31, 2018)

kiwivda said:


> I think  I've found who to blame! I've disabled windows 10 USB power management for the lyr port and it seem to be fine. Tell you more in a while.



Check which driver installed for Lyr 3 multibit, if it's the default that windows 10 chooses then search for upgrade, there is a better one, i was stuck with the default windows driver for ages without realising and after the upgrade sound was much better,

In device manager it should be listed as "Schiit USB Multibit" with driver version 10.0.12.10, that is the good driver.


----------



## kiwivda

ilikepooters said:


> Check which driver installed for Lyr 3 multibit, if it's the default that windows 10 chooses then search for upgrade, there is a better one, i was stuck with the default windows driver for ages without realising and after the upgrade sound was much better,
> 
> In device manager it should be listed as "Schiit USB Multibit" with driver version 10.0.12.10, that is the good driver.




Done:





And happy New Year!!


----------



## prof.utonium

garysohn said:


> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0119/Schiit_Jotunheim_Lyr3_Review.htm


Thanks for the Link graysohn. Very nice review.


----------



## FLTWS

prof.utonium said:


> Thanks for the Link graysohn. Very nice review.



Agreed, ETM's reviews are always a pleasure to read. As I own both pieces, its always nice to get others opinions on gear I'm familiar with.


----------



## tafens

FLTWS said:


> Agreed, ETM's reviews are always a pleasure to read. As I own both pieces, its always nice to get others opinions on gear I'm familiar with.



I haven’t read any of ETM’s reviews before, but I liked reading it a lot, a very good and interesting review! As I understood, the Lyr3 used the stock NOS Russian tube during the review, which imho puts the it at a disadvantage compared to the new production Tung-Sol tube option it can also be ordered with. But still it came out on top 

As you do have both, it would be interesting to know, what are your thoughts on Jot vs Lyr3?


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> I haven’t read any of ETM’s reviews before, but I liked reading it a lot, a very good and interesting review! As I understood, the Lyr3 used the stock NOS Russian tube during the review, which imho puts the it at a disadvantage compared to the new production Tung-Sol tube option it can also be ordered with. But still it came out on top
> 
> As you do have both, it would be interesting to know, what are your thoughts on Jot vs Lyr3?


I’ll chime in very briefly, as I did a good bit of listening to both pre-purchase (I live close to the Schiitr, which makes it easy). In general, because it’s been a few months, I found the Jot to be brighter in the treble range for me. It wasn’t harsh or anything, but the overall balance was better on Lyr 3, which had the NOS tube installed. Looking fwd to what @FLTWS has to say...


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## FLTWS (Jan 2, 2019)

Dave Hanson's write ups are good too at ETM.

Jeremy's review is spot on. I like the little extra extension at the very top and bottom Jot gives but the sound stage and image is a little to up close and personal for my likes.

The LYR3 (and depending on your tube choice) backs me away from that up close perspective, generates more air and sets a more relaxed sound field which I prefer as it allows the music to breath a bit in its acoustic space. Especially with my predominantly classical leanings it gives me a better over all perspective and as I go live often it suits the sound the way I expect to hear it, somewhere off the stage rather than on it. Always a difficult trick as essentially the microphone positions are where your ears reside when listening to any recording.

I should also note that I'm an old tube guy for over 5 decades but always searching for a solid state alternative that can give me the best of both. Maybe never gonna' happen but it's as much about the journey as the end result for me and I enjoy the variety I've experienced over the years. And nothing I've heard reproduced touches the "live" experience.

I also find matching volume levels with an SPL meter to be critical for me when comparing two different components, I'm always surprised at how close two well designed piece will sound like another when I do that, especially when from the same designer / manufacturer.

I also take it as a given that the listening experience is different for everyone. My friends could care less if it's a high-rez download or a lossy MP-3. Not everyone wants to listen that hard to hear subtle differences and nuances and imaging and sound stage capabilities. And even among the cognoscenti there is no uniformity of agreement on what sounds correct.

A few posters have had some problems using LYR3. I'm not one (so far and that includes a Schiit-load of NOS as well as NNS tubes, nor with any of my many Schiit as well as other components either). The end result is usually a smoked LYR3, and in a very few instances (as far as I'm aware), it can take an HP driver(s) with it. Tube related failures strike me as a most likely cause, but I'm confident there are non-tube related failures as well. The reasons for these few issues may be diverse enough in nature to be unable to list, or maybe its an infant mortality issue with parts, or component incompatibility / stability issues in the chain or AC related bugaboos. But they have happened to a few users and that is also part of the equation of being a tube-o-phile.

The bottom line for me is that both units are exceptional sounding, I just prefer tubes in general. While for some it could be a $ stretch, owning both for a period of time would give one a leg up on understanding the plus and minus of tube versus SS and provide a good foundation to move forward with their personal "Quest"!


----------



## JamminVMI

Well spoken, thanks! Soundstage is a definite plus, and I find that it changes with the tube, too. 

Interestingly, I find that the Saga’s tube can also add to the soundstage, making it wider to my ears - and that also varies with the tube.


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## malenak (Jan 8, 2019)

Hi there, I just received mail from Schiit Europe that Lyr3 is actually not available and I have option to cancel order. Is there a good alternative, maybe something better than Lyr3 in simillar price range, with a good availability in EU?


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## kiwivda

Also in Italy availability was out of stock and I've been  able to get it for Christmas only by ordering it directly from Schiit in the usa, with the added shipping cost and import fees.


----------



## ilikepooters

I ordered mine directly from Schiit US the EU version took a while for them to stock, even longer for the EU site to get stock, even with shipping and duty it was on a par with ordering price from the EU.


----------



## RJ58

Hi there, so I am finally looking into upgrading my desktop amp/dac section (currently an original modi and a magni 2 uber). My current headphones include: Empire Ears Legend X, Fostex TH-X00, and a Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm (I am also considering a Fostex TH-900 mk2 as a future purchase), and I am wondering if anyone can speak to any synergies between the lyr 3 and the headphones I currently have. 

Furthermore, I am also wondering what improvements a lyr 3 (with multibit dac module) would have over my current setup. I am also considering a Chord Mojo (I mostly listen at home so portability isn't a huge plus for me, but is not a bad feature to have, especially with the Legend X), so any input on the Lyr 3 vs the Mojo are also welcome (as are any other general recommendations).


----------



## Slashn77

Has anyone tried the Schiit Lyr 3 ($500)vs the THX($350)?

I am running a Mimby to vali 2 right now and looking for an amp upgrade for my LCD-2 classics and HD700s.
I have powered monitors that I use the Vali 2 for a preamp as well and the Lyr 3 is a preamp but not the THX. I only run SE so balanced is not a priority right now


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## kman1211 (Jan 25, 2019)

I just got the Lyr 3 today, but I'm finding it has issues, isolated it to the amp itself, no issues with the Multibit DAC module, but the amp just cuts off when pushed above a certain volume(as low as 9-11 o' clock on low gain which isn't loud at all) on more demanding tracks. It's like the turn-on delay is tripping some reason as the power light, etc. are on. Tried everything, but still happens. It sounds nice so far but can't really turn the amp up much as I'd like without risking it shutting off and having to stop playback and wait for it to get sound again. I'm curious if anyone had an issue similar to this before.


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## ProfFalkin (Jan 25, 2019)

kman1211 said:


> I just got the Lyr 3 today, but I'm finding it has issues, isolated it to the amp itself, no issues with the Multibit DAC module, but the amp just cuts off when pushed above a certain volume(as low as 9-11 o' clock on low gain which isn't loud at all) on more demanding tracks. It's like the turn-on delay is tripping some reason as the power light, etc. are on. Tried everything, but still happens. It sounds nice so far but can't really turn the amp up much as I'd like without risking it shutting off and having to stop playback and wait for it to get sound again. I'm curious if anyone had an issue similar to this before.


That's a first as far as I know.    It's a good thing that some kind of fault protection is kicking in though, trust me.

Do you have a secure ground on your power cord/outlet?

Email Schiit and see if they can help?


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## kman1211 (Jan 25, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> That's a first as far as I know.    It's a good thing that some kind of fault protection is kicking in though, trust me.
> 
> Do you have a secure ground on your power cord/outlet?
> 
> Email Schiit and see if they can help?



Yeah, I do, tried multiple outlets in different rooms and power cables as well. It is a good thing it does seem to protect itself, but not sure why it's doing it. Maybe it's the electrical wiring in the house, but I never had a problem like this with the Lyr 2 or any other amp in the past. After trying to troubleshoot the DAC as I thought it was it at first, I used my UDA-1 as a DAC, as it can be used as an DAC through it's RCA outputs and still use it's headphone amp at the same time, it's amp works when the Lyr 3 cuts off despite using the same DAC, that's how I knew it was the amp itself that was cutting out. I sent them an email, hopefully I can get it sorted out.


----------



## kiwivda

kman1211 said:


> Yeah, I do, tried multiple outlets in different rooms and power cables as well. It is a good thing it does seem to protect itself, but not sure why it's doing it. Maybe it's the electrical wiring in the house, but I never had a problem like this with the Lyr 2 or any other amp in the past. After trying to troubleshoot the DAC as I thought it was it at first, I used my UDA-1 as a DAC, as it can be used as an DAC through it's RCA outputs and still use it's headphone amp at the same time, it's amp works when the Lyr 3 cuts off despite using the same DAC, that's how I knew it was the amp itself that was cutting out. I sent them an email, hopefully I can get it sorted out.



Same problem here, just bought the lyr3 for Christmas directly from Schiit in the us, due to poor availability in Europe. 
I've had the same issue, but switching tubes seems to solve the problem.
Also using the tube lifter and avoiding some heat into the chassis seems it has helped. By now no more issues, but these days is cold, I'll figure it out this summer if it's heat related.
Anyway let me know what they tell you, I'm really interested in the solution.


----------



## kman1211 (Jan 25, 2019)

kiwivda said:


> Same problem here, just bought the lyr3 for Christmas directly from Schiit in the us, due to poor availability in Europe.
> I've had the same issue, but switching tubes seems to solve the problem.
> Also using the tube lifter and avoiding some heat into the chassis seems it has helped. By now no more issues, but these days is cold, I'll figure it out this summer if it's heat related.
> Anyway let me know what they tell you, I'm really interested in the solution.



Curious what it is too, but it happens, sometimes you get problematic gear. Hopefully the problem doesn’t show up again on yours.


----------



## bboris77

kman1211 said:


> Curious what it is too, but it happens, sometimes you get problematic gear. Hopefully the problem doesn’t show up again on yours.



I had the same problem happen recently. At first I thought it was the NOS tube I just plugged in, but then I realized that it happened because the 1/8 headphone plug was not plugged all the way into the 1/8 to 1/4 adapter and was effectively creating a short. I could only hear one side of my HD600 playing, and then when I fiddled with the plug while increasing the volume, the relay clicked and shut down the output. When I replugged the headphones properly, the problem was gone. I confirmed with the Schiit support and they told me this was normal operation of the protection mechanism.

I could totally see the same happening if you plug in a tube that has an issue - in that case the amp would shut down the output to protect itself and the headphones connected. I would test it with a different tube to rule out any other problems.


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## kman1211 (Jan 25, 2019)

bboris77 said:


> I had the same problem happen recently. At first I thought it was the NOS tube I just plugged in, but then I realized that it happened because the 1/8 headphone plug was not plugged all the way into the 1/8 to 1/4 adapter and was effectively creating a short. I could only hear one side of my HD600 playing, and then when I fiddled with the plug while increasing the volume, the relay clicked and shut down the output. When I replugged the headphones properly, the problem was gone. I confirmed with the Schiit support and they told me this was normal operation of the protection mechanism.
> 
> I could totally see the same happening if you plug in a tube that has an issue - in that case the amp would shut down the output to protect itself and the headphones connected. I would test it with a different tube to rule out any other problems.



Sadly in my case it happens regardless of headphone and I made sure all the adapters were plugged in fully, I tried 4 different headphones, happens with all of them, I can replicate it every single time using pink noise for example. Say when I have the Amiron Home's or another 250 Ohm Beyer(this case an old DT 831) plugged in, turn it above 10 o' Clock and it happens. On the 25 Ohm DT 480 it happens around 11 o clock on the pot. This happens regardless of DAC or computer used and regardless of tube, power cable, or wall socket used. It makes the clicking noise like when the amp delay happens. They did get back to me, looks like mine has to be replaced.


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## bboris77

kman1211 said:


> Sadly in my case it happens regardless of headphone and I made sure all the adapters were plugged in fully, I tried 4 different headphones, happens with all of them, I can replicate it every single time using pink noise for example. Say when I have the Amiron Home's or another 250 Ohm Beyer(this case an old DT 831) plugged in, turn it above 10 o' Clock and it happens. On the 25 Ohm DT 480 it happens around 11 o clock on the pot. This happens regardless of DAC or computer used and regardless of tube, power cable, or wall socket used. It makes the clicking noise like when the amp delay happens. They did get back to me, looks like mine has to be replaced.



Yes, if it happens with different tubes, then it is the amp. At least it did not blow up any of your phones. Hopefully you get it exchanged/fixed quickly.


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## kman1211

bboris77 said:


> Yes, if it happens with different tubes, then it is the amp. At least it did not blow up any of your phones. Hopefully you get it exchanged/fixed quickly.



Thankfully never had an amp destroy a headphone before. They just sent me a label to return it with, kudos for good customer service, so will likely have the replacement within a week. I like the sound, so I do want to get a properly functioning unit.


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## kiwivda

kman1211 said:


> Thankfully never had an amp destroy a headphone before. They just sent me a label to return it with, kudos for good customer service, so will likely have the replacement within a week. I like the sound, so I do want to get a properly functioning unit.



Now thinking about my past moves, you made me remind that my Sundara was having some trouble on the right channel, and I changed the 1/4 adapter with a new one I wad in a drower. Since than and swapping some tubes, the issue disappeared.


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## ProfFalkin

Bad adapter then?


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## kiwivda (Jan 26, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> Bad adapter then?


yes I really think so eventually.


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## bboris77 (Feb 1, 2019)

I have a couple of question for you guys that will help satisfy my curiosity. Keep in mind, I do not have an expansion module installed in my Lyr 3 and I stumbled across these things accidentally. They are not functional issues but I am simply wondering if this is normal behaviour for this amp.

1, Theoretically, the Lyr 3 should be silent when you flip the input selection switch up if you do not have the expansion module installed. However, if I turn up the volume all the way on my Lyr 3 in high gain mode, I can actually hear the other channel playing, albeit very silently. This only happens if I use sensitive IEMs. I was just wondering if this is because there is no module installed and whether there would be some channel cross-contamination if I actually had an expansion module installed. This is really more of an academic issue because it is not a problem while listening at normal volume levels.

2. Secondly, after about 25 minutes of warm-up time using the same setup described above, a low volume high-pitched whine appears only in the left channel. It is only present there in the when selecting expansion module mode, not in the RCA analogue input mode. The level of this whine diminishes when volume is turned down. It does not appear for the first 25 minutes of warm-up time.

3. Again, only when the expansion module input is selected and the volume is turned up, touching either the gain or input selector switches produces an audible hum. This does not happen in the analogue RCA input mode regardless of the volume level. I have tested the amp and it is fully grounded.

Keep in mind that any of these quirks appear only when the input switch is in the "module input" mode, and that I do not have a module card installed. It should theoretically be 100% quiet, but it is not. It appears that this input is picking up some kind of interference that is related to grounding and/or thermal expansion. It is not at all a functional issue as the RCA analogue mode is perfectly fine, but I wanted to see what other people's experiences have been. I also wanted to know whether these issues would disappear if I actually had an expansion module card installed.

Edit: This happens with 3 different tubes, so it is not tube-specific.


----------



## bboris77

Just  a followup - heard back from the Schiit support (within 30 minutes) and they confirmed that this is normal behaviour when there is no expansion module. Therefore, nothing to worry about.


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## kiwivda (Feb 3, 2019)

I've written to Schiit, stil having muting issue while listening. I'm uncertain between ground or heat related problem. I home not to have to send ti back in the Us from Italy. Maybe they cen suggest me something to do or measure to check..


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## lentoviolento

is lyr3 better than lyr2?? i mean price/performance ratio considering that maybe i could find lyr2 at a lower price..


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## Zachik

lentoviolento said:


> is lyr3 better than lyr2?? i mean price/performance ratio considering that maybe i could find lyr2 at a lower price..


Schiit completely redesigned the amp. I never auditioned Lyr2 (I own Lyr3), but from what I understand, it is a very big step up.
Will let others who auditioned or owned both to respond further, but short answer: buy the Lyr3 despite being more expensive!


----------



## lentoviolento

Zachik said:


> Schiit completely redesigned the amp. I never auditioned Lyr2 (I own Lyr3), but from what I understand, it is a very big step up.
> Will let others who auditioned or owned both to respond further, but short answer: buy the Lyr3 despite being more expensive!



ok thx.
what tube is better of the two available on the site?


----------



## Zachik

I never had the stock Russian tube.
The $25 Tung Sol upgrade tube is pretty good. People that tried both claim one should always get the Tung Sol...
Obviously, if you're going to invest and roll other tubes, you could skip the $25 upgrade and use that money for even better tubes


----------



## lentoviolento

Zachik said:


> I never had the stock Russian tube.
> The $25 Tung Sol upgrade tube is pretty good. People that tried both claim one should always get the Tung Sol...
> Obviously, if you're going to invest and roll other tubes, you could skip the $25 upgrade and use that money for even better tubes



i don't have all that money.. so i would stick with the tung sol.
i am looking for an affordable tube amp for my aeolus. thanks for the suggestion


----------



## exdmd

Any NOS 6SN7GT from 1940-1960 will sound better than the current Russian production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. You can't expect Schiit to use a more expensive vintage tube in a $500 amp. Try a 1950's Sylvania or Tung Sol Mouse Ears 6SN7GT you should be able to get either for about $50 with some looking.


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## lentoviolento

I knew someday i would have felt in the tube rolling hole. It is an addiction in the addiction


----------



## Zachik

lentoviolento said:


> I knew someday i would have felt in the tube rolling hole. It is an addiction in the addiction


Yup!
I already spent more on tubes than the cost of the amp...


----------



## kman1211

Got the replacement Lyr 3 Multibit, haven't had any issues with this one. Definitely liking how the amp sounds. The DAC will take time to determine how much I like it, it's different than what I'm used to, not sure if I like it as much as my old DAC, the Sony UDA-1. I'll definitely spend time with it to see where my impressions end up.


----------



## kiwivda

kman1211 said:


> Got the replacement Lyr 3 Multibit, haven't had any issues with this one. Definitely liking how the amp sounds. The DAC will take time to determine how much I like it, it's different than what I'm used to, not sure if I like it as much as my old DAC, the Sony UDA-1. I'll definitely spend time with it to see where my impressions end up.



It Was you having the Click and mute issue ?


----------



## kiwivda

Anyway I've opened a RA code for returning the Lyr 3 to Schiit. 45€ of UPS to have a warranty service, untill now, and the box hasn't yet leaved Italy, but I had to do lot of paper and "export-stuff" which I would have liked to have done without. 
Hope the muting relay will be repaired, 'cause it was stopping reproduction randomly, could go for half a day and than do the thing 10 times in a row or never.
What a pity. Lot of vacum-tubes here are feeling lonely!


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> Anyway I've opened a RA code for returning the Lyr 3 to Schiit. 45€ of UPS to have a warranty service, untill now, and the box hasn't yet leaved Italy, but I had to do lot of paper and "export-stuff" which I would have liked to have done without.
> Hope the muting relay will be repaired, 'cause it was stopping reproduction randomly, could go for half a day and than do the thing 10 times in a row or never.
> What a pity. Lot of vacum-tubes here are feeling lonely!


Stai calmo!


----------



## kiwivda

JamminVMI said:


> Stai calmo!


I'm calm and relaxed, my friend. Just a little worried about the long trip.


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> I'm calm and relaxed, my friend. Just a little worried about the long trip.


No worries, I totally understand


----------



## tafens

Zachik said:


> I never had the stock Russian tube.
> The $25 Tung Sol upgrade tube is pretty good. People that tried both claim one should always get the Tung Sol...



I agree to that claim  I have both and to my ears the Tung-Sol is better in just about every way. The stock Russian tube isn’t bad, but the Tung-Sol makes it sound dull in comparison.


----------



## Yviena

Does anyone know if i can use balanced outputs from a DAC into lyr 3 rca inputs?


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## ProfFalkin (Feb 13, 2019)

Yviena said:


> Does anyone know if i can use balanced outputs from a DAC into lyr 3 rca inputs?


You can, with this: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/

That is the only way I would do it.  The XLR outs are way too "hot", among other issues like overstressing the output on the DAC by simply shorting one pin to ground which is what most adapters will do.


----------



## Yviena

ProfFalkin said:


> You can, with this: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/
> 
> That is the only way I would do it.  The XLR outs are way too "hot", among other issues like overstressing the output on the DAC by simply shorting one pin to ground which is what most adapters will do.


Hmm  wouldn't  XLR-RCA with pin 3 floating be okay though?


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## ProfFalkin (Feb 13, 2019)

Yviena said:


> Hmm  wouldn't  XLR-RCA with pin 3 floating be okay though?


I don't know, will it?   All I know is it wasn't designed to work that way.  I couldn't tell you what kind of problems it may cause internally for your DAC, if any.


----------



## JustRon

I didn't see it in this thread, but I'll ask... can anyone compare the Fosgate Signature Headphone amp and the Lyr 3? (Assuming you've heard both.)
I'm in the market for a new (or, new to me) amp. My last was a Lyr 2, and it was _ok_ (not bad, not great).


----------



## ilikepooters

Lyr 3 is quite a big step up from 1/2, 6SN7 is a very linear tube so that will have a lot to do with it.


----------



## earnmyturns

JustRon said:


> I didn't see it in this thread, but I'll ask... can anyone compare the Fosgate Signature Headphone amp and the Lyr 3? (Assuming you've heard both.)
> I'm in the market for a new (or, new to me) amp. My last was a Lyr 2, and it was _ok_ (not bad, not great).


I haven't heard the Fosgate, but note that it is a very different design, reviewed as "warm" and low power compared with the Lyr, meaning it will not pair the same way with different headphones. In other words, these are very likely so different that they fit very different tastes and use cases. The reason I like 6SN7 tube-solid state hybrids like the Lyr and the Apex Peak is that they offer a nice interpolation between hard-hitting, straight-edge neutral solid state designs and more romantic tube-based designs, easy to tweak by tube rolling, that can drive well power-hungry magnetic planars.


----------



## JustRon

earnmyturns said:


> I haven't heard the Fosgate, but note that it is a very different design, reviewed as "warm" and low power compared with the Lyr, meaning it will not pair the same way with different headphones. In other words, these are very likely so different that they fit very different tastes and use cases. The reason I like 6SN7 tube-solid state hybrids like the Lyr and the Apex Peak is that they offer a nice interpolation between hard-hitting, straight-edge neutral solid state designs and more romantic tube-based designs, easy to tweak by tube rolling, that can drive well power-hungry magnetic planars.



I should have mentioned that my HP are very easy to drive (and aren't nearly high-end like a lot of folks around here) - Ultrasone Pro 900i. I'm not a big HP user- I much prefer speakers... I just want to have the option when needed.


----------



## earnmyturns

JustRon said:


> I should have mentioned that my HP are very easy to drive (and aren't nearly high-end like a lot of folks around here) - Ultrasone Pro 900i. I'm not a big HP user- I much prefer speakers... I just want to have the option when needed.


Wouldn't you want to match amp cost to the overall quality of the rest of your system? Unless you are getting an amazingly good deal on the Fostgate, a mid-priced amp (one of the Schiit models, a Gilmore mk2, ...) would seem a more appropriate combination.


----------



## JustRon

earnmyturns said:


> Wouldn't you want to match amp cost to the overall quality of the rest of your system? Unless you are getting an amazingly good deal on the Fostgate, a mid-priced amp (one of the Schiit models, a Gilmore mk2, ...) would seem a more appropriate combination.



The Fosgate can be had for $600-700. Obviously I'm considering the Lyr 3 (that's where I posted my question). I'd rather my amp be better than my HP; I'm not married to them. I chose them because they had the best bass response of ones that I was comparing, by my system is completely different now.


----------



## earnmyturns

JustRon said:


> The Fosgate can be had for $600-700. Obviously I'm considering the Lyr 3 (that's where I posted my question). I'd rather my amp be better than my HP; I'm not married to them. I chose them because they had the best bass response of ones that I was comparing, by my system is completely different now.


Then it will be a matter of taste. I like neutral-ish, so the Lyr (and Apex Peak on my fancier setup) is a good match, just that touch of tube-ness, I suspect the Fosgate might be quite a bit warmer. With respect to bass, who knows. The good side of Lyr is that it has solid, dense, fast bass, but it is not bass-heavy. But then I would not put up with any bass-heavy setups given what I listen to (modern jazz and classical). For other genres the story might be quite different.


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## earnmyturns (Feb 20, 2019)

My normal musical diet does not typically have a big electronic beat, but listening right now to _Shuffle Mode_, a new jazz fusion album by the Italian crew Rosa Brunello/Los Fermentos with a lot of electronics, bass guitar, and heavy kick drum. Must say, the Lyr with Psvane UK-6SN7 drives my Ether C Flows 1.1 beautifully on this stuff, fast edges, gut-moving kicks. The Lyr output stage really punches big here. I suspect the NOS DAC is always helping make this intense, building on that depth and separation in the low-mids that good NOS offers. Loving it.


----------



## tcellguy

I just heard the Lyr 3 for the first time at CanJam. It was running the multibit card and a Tung Sol tube. I really sounded fantastic. It was initially paired with an HD800. I had never heard that headphone before but have read it described as bass thin and with fatiguing treble. I heard none of that today, but instead experienced a great, wide sound stage, deeply layered and well controlled bass, and non fatiguing treble. I later switched to the Aeon Flow Open with which I'm more familiar and the Lyr 3 sounded to me to be a better pairing vs. the Jotunheim. 

I was totally ready to buy a Lyr 3 until I heard the Mjolnir/Gumby setup. That was a really great sounding setup with the AFO. I wonder if there will be a Mjolnir 3 using the coherence engineering. 

I'm still relatively new to audio and I'm surprised how much better the AFO sounded on these setups vs. my Jotunheim. I guess I like tubes


----------



## Zachik

tcellguy said:


> I guess I like tubes


Welcome to the dangerous waters of tube rolling and tube addiction


----------



## pichu

Does no one here get bothered that on startup theres a LOUD click of the amp that also pops through the headphone drivers if the headphones are plugged in on startup? This was enough for me to sell it no matter how good it sounds.


----------



## bcowen

pichu said:


> Does no one here get bothered that on startup theres a LOUD click of the amp that also pops through the headphone drivers if the headphones are plugged in on startup? This was enough for me to sell it no matter how good it sounds.



There's no click audible through the headphones with mine. Nothing. I've listened for it even with the volume turned up, and....nothing.


----------



## bcowen

tcellguy said:


> I guess I like tubes



We'll have a memorial service for your wallet this evening at 5:00.


----------



## earnmyturns

pichu said:


> Does no one here get bothered that on startup theres a LOUD click of the amp that also pops through the headphone drivers if the headphones are plugged in on startup? This was enough for me to sell it no matter how good it sounds.


The amp you sold might be defective. The click one hears from the outside just under 1 minute after power-up is the relay that blocks headphone output until the amp circuity reaches operating condition. Until that relay clicks on, there should be no headphone output. From the manual:

_*There’s no sound for a while after I turn Lyr 3 on*. That’s perfectly normal. Lyr 3 has a built in startup delay (and instant shut-down.) It’s set to 40-45 seconds to let the tube come up and the bias servo to stabilize._​


----------



## Ripper2860

I've found the click on Lyr 3 varies with the tube inserted.  For me, it can go from no pop via headphones to a relatively noticeable one, depending on the tube.  Nothing that causes me great concern, however.


----------



## JamminVMI (Feb 17, 2019)

pichu said:


> Does no one here get bothered that on startup theres a LOUD click of the amp that also pops through the headphone drivers if the headphones are plugged in on startup? This was enough for me to sell it no matter how good it sounds.


No click on mine either. Slight click when the muting relay cuts the output in, as per usual (after a minute-ish), but that’s it. Did you try with different tubes?


----------



## porchwizard (Feb 17, 2019)

pichu said:


> Does no one here get bothered that on startup theres a LOUD click of the amp that also pops through the headphone drivers if the headphones are plugged in on startup? This was enough for me to sell it no matter how good it sounds.


I get a very soft click when it un-mutes that is utterly unremarkable.


----------



## chimney189

Any impressions with the HE-1000v2?  I'm kinda asking everywhere for amps matched with this headphone.. tortuous research


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I've found the click on Lyr 3 varies with the tube inserted.  For me, it can go from no pop via headphones to a relatively noticeable one, depending on the tube.  Nothing that causes me great concern, however.



Are you putting the tubes in the same way each time (ie: with the pins down)?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep.  Just like indicated on the 'this side up' sticker you placed on them after testing.


----------



## FLTWS

bcowen said:


> Are you putting the tubes in the same way each time (ie: with the pins down)?



LOL!


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Yep.  Just like indicated on the 'this side up' sticker you placed on them after testing.


@Ripper2860 - also, make sure the pins go into the socket in the middle of the big round hole, as opposed to the little holes next to it on the top of the Lyr 3... Those are just for letting excess heat out...


----------



## Ripper2860

Nice one, but you're not gonna fool me.  There are no little holes on the top of Lyr 3 -- just solid metal w/ 4 little rubber domes at the corners.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Nice one, but you're not gonna fool me.  There are no little holes on the top of Lyr 3 -- just solid metal w/ 4 little rubber domes at the corners.


Looks like you got the 3ryL instead


----------



## lentoviolento

FLTWS said:


> LOL!


Sorry for the OT, but you have 2 yggys? One upstairs one downstairs??


----------



## Ripper2860

Nah.  @FLTWS  has one for the left ear and one for the right.


----------



## FLTWS

lentoviolento said:


> Sorry for the OT, but you have 2 yggys? One upstairs one downstairs??



Yes, Yggy 1(A) downstairs rig and Yggy 2(B) for upstairs rig. Can't use downstairs rig much from April to Nov because of AC & refrigerator noise plus folks and outside activities during nice weather. 2nd floor bedroom is quietest room in my condo year round.


----------



## lentoviolento

FLTWS said:


> Yes, Yggy 1(A) downstairs rig and Yggy 2(B) for upstairs rig. Can't use downstairs rig much from April to Nov because of AC & refrigerator noise plus folks and outside activities during nice weather. 2nd floor bedroom is quietest room in my condo year round.




GODLIKE


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 18, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> GODLIKE



LOL, not really. If I were I'd own a large house on 100 acres with a purpose built audio room with a 2 channel system that makes my eyes water just thinking about.

And it will be in the tropics away from all this winter.


----------



## lentoviolento

FLTWS said:


> LOL, not really. If I were I'd own a large house on 100 acres with a purpose built audio room with a 2 channel system that makes my eyes water just thinking about.
> 
> And it will be in the tropics away from all this winter.




eheh it's all relative. i wish i have your downstairs setup... let's be grateful for what we own


----------



## JamminVMI

Ripper2860 said:


> Nice one, but you're not gonna fool me.  There are no little holes on the top of Lyr 3 -- just solid metal w/ 4 little rubber domes at the corners.


Like the number plate frames on some Jeeps... “If you can read this, turn me over!” Well said!


----------



## mvn1 (Feb 22, 2019)

Hey Folks,
Hoping you guys can shed some light on an issue I've got.
I've just received a new Lyr3 after a RMA for a different issue, and I notice the tube seems to sit crookedly when inserted the whole way into the Ly3. If its just the tube, it tilts forward and to the right (if facing the unit), and the glass is almost touching the metal. If I use a socket extender, it does touch the metal.

After unplugging the unit, of course, taking the tube out, I can physically rock the octal base without much effort. It doesn't give by much - maybe a mm, but it still moves.

Before raising it with Schiit, I wanted to see what you guys thought? Do your units exhibit this same behaviour?


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 22, 2019)

Duplicate post


----------



## FLTWS

mvn1 said:


> Hey Folks,
> Hoping you guys can shed some light on an issue I've got.
> I've just received a new Lyr3 after a RMA for a different issue, and I notice the tube seems to sit crookedly when inserted the whole way into the Ly3. If its just the tube, it tilts forward and to the right (if facing the unit), and the glass is almost touching the metal. If I use a socket extender, it does touch the metal.
> 
> ...


Pull the tube, is the glass tube portion parallel with it's plastic base? Roll it on a table or countertop, is the entire diameter of the tube and plastic base in contact with the table surface at all points during the rolling? 

The socket in the unit may not be parallel with the metal cases top (My MJ2 (3 years old) has the same issue with one of it's sockets as does my LYR3 (1 year old)) and I expect when my Valhalla 2 arrives this weekend with 4 sockets it will be a similar scenario). You would probably never notice this with a surface mount tube and it really doesn't hurt anything. I've never had a problem aligning the tube to sit centered in the hole even if the bottom of the base is not completely flush with the socket. The best solution; use a socket saver to lift the tube up more like a flush mount, I find my tubes run cooler and the metal cases top seems cooler as well. And it looks cooler too, LOL!

I would not RMA the unit if it functions correctly otherwise.


----------



## Wes S

My tubes dont sit perfectly straight


FLTWS said:


> Pull the tube, is the glass tube portion parallel with it's plastic base? Roll it on a table or countertop, is the entire diameter of the tube and plastic base in contact with the table surface at all points during the rolling?
> 
> The socket in the unit may not be parallel with the metal cases top (My MJ2 (3 years old) has the same issue with one of it's sockets as does my LYR3 (1 year old)) and I expect when my Valhalla 2 arrives this weekend with 4 sockets it will be a similar scenario). You would probably never notice this with a surface mount tube and it really doesn't hurt anything. I've never had a problem aligning the tube to sit centered in the hole even if the bottom of the base is not completely flush with the socket. The best solution; use a socket saver to lift the tube up more like a flush mount, I find my tubes run cooler and the metal cases top seems cooler as well. And it looks cooler too, LOL!
> 
> I would not RMA the unit if it functions correctly otherwise.


I agree with this,  I just tilt my tube, until it looks straight, after I have pushed it all the way in.


----------



## bcowen

mvn1 said:


> I can physically rock the octal base without much effort. It doesn't give by much - maybe a mm, but it still moves.



I agree with @FLTWS that a slightly crooked socket is not an RMA-able event. Just straighten the tube visually -- you still have more than plenty of contact between the tube pins and the socket. But I'm not clear on your statement above. Are you saying the _socket_ can be rocked back and forth, or just the tube base in the socket?  If the former, is the socket moving independently of the circuit board it's mounted on, or is it just the board flexing some when you press on it?  The socket is soldered directly to the board, so if it moves independently of the board that would indicate a broken solder connection (probably more than one) and _that _would be an RMA event...


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> My tubes dont sit perfectly straight.



We've heard that about you, Wes.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> We've heard that about you, Wes.


Love it!  I literally just laughed out loud!  Thanks for that!  Happy Friday


----------



## Zachik

I am subscribed and follow MANY threads, but this one is by far the most entertaining one!  
Happy Friday everyone.


----------



## kiwivda (Feb 22, 2019)

My Lyr3 is now on RMA, but my tube also was not centered in the hole, and tilt it as *Wes S said.*


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 22, 2019)

Please don't encourage @bcowen.  Oh -- and his parole officer has requested that we notify the NC Division Of Adult Probation & Parole office if he violates the 'no Internet access' terms of his probation.  Or if he is seen fondling his tubes within 300 feet of a school or park, again.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Please don't encourage @bcowen.  Oh -- and his parole officer has requested that we notify the NC Division Of Adult Probation & Parole office if he violates the 'no Internet access' terms of his probation.  Or if he is seen fondling his tubes within 300 feet of a school or park, again.


Does posting on the threads using his 2003 vintage flip phone count as "internet access" ?!


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes.  Especially when used to post ''up skirt' shots.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes.  Especially when used to post ''up skirt' shots.


Up skirt shots?  You mean like this one?


----------



## Ripper2860




----------



## attmci

kiwivda said:


> My Lyr3 is now on RMA, but my tube also was not centered in the hole, and tilt it as *Wes S said.*


Let me make a special socket saver for you. It cost only $56. When you install it, make sure you tilt you head slightly.


----------



## Currawong

Now Schiit will have to add a warning to their instructions - "Only use the included tube inside the Lyr 3. Don't stick the tube anywhere it isn't supposed to, as that could be hazardous for your health.".


----------



## tafens

FLTWS said:


> Pull the tube, is the glass tube portion parallel with it's plastic base? Roll it on a table or countertop, ...



Ooh, so  _that’s_  this tube-rolling thing you all talk about!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Please don't encourage @bcowen.  Oh -- and his parole officer has requested that we notify the NC Division Of Adult Probation & Parole office if he violates the 'no Internet access' terms of his probation.  Or if he is seen fondling his tubes within 300 feet of a school or park, again.



Notify away, but my parole officer will probably ignore it -- she likes to fondle tubes too. Trust me on this.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Ooh, so  _that’s_  this tube-rolling thing you all talk about!



LOL!


----------



## FLTWS

tafens said:


> Ooh, so  _that’s_  this tube-rolling thing you all talk about!



LOL, part of it. It's a process.


----------



## 441879 (Feb 23, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Please don't encourage @bcowen.  Oh -- and his parole officer has requested that we notify the NC Division Of Adult Probation & Parole office if he violates the 'no Internet access' terms of his probation.  Or if he is seen fondling his tubes within 300 feet of a school or park, again.



Umm, are you sure you’re the right person to be calling attention to this?  - Just sayin.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hello…    I was never convicted.


----------



## bcowen

will f said:


> Umm, are you sure you’re the right person to be calling attention to this?  - Just sayin.



Finally.  A voice of reason.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Hello…    I was never convicted.



Not to nitpick or anything, but you spelled vindicated wrong.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 23, 2019)

May the curse of a 1000 'mangled in shipping' Tube Testers befall you and your family!!


----------



## 441879

bcowen said:


> Finally.  A voice of reason.



Considering I bought another tube today, “voice of reason” may be a bit, ah, inaccurate. A Psvane CV181-TII. Anyone have an opinion how it’s going to do vs a bad boy?


----------



## bcowen

will f said:


> Considering I bought another tube today, “voice of reason” may be a bit, ah, inaccurate. A Psvane CV181-TII. Anyone have an opinion how it’s going to do vs a bad boy?



There's nothing even remotely unreasonable about buying as many tubes as you can even if you'll never use most of them. Who told you that?


----------



## Ripper2860

I just bought a copy of the book Tube Lore.   I'm hopeless.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I just bought a copy of the book Tube Lore.   I'm hopeless.



The book had nothing to do with that.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> I just bought a copy of the book Tube Lore.   I'm hopeless.


I thought you're being funny, but googled for the heck of it and sure enough - the book is real 
One can never know on this thread...


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> I just bought a copy of the book Tube Lore.   I'm hopeless.



First time I read your post I misread it as “Tube Love”.  Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Perfectly normal I say.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 24, 2019)

What a man does with his tubes in the privacy if his own home is between him and his tubes.


----------



## 441879

Question for the group and possibly @Ripper2860 (who has a D50 DAC): I’m thinking about adding a Bifrost Multibit DAC to replace my D50. Worth it / not worth it? Truth is I’m pretty darn happy with how my current set-up sounds, but I like the looks of a stacked Bimby & Lyr 3. Most of what I listen to is 44/16 but I do have a few albums at 192/32 and I will happily listen to 320 kbps Spotify streams if I’m exploring for new music.

Will


----------



## Mike-WI

will f said:


> Question for the group and possibly @Ripper2860 (who has a D50 DAC): I’m thinking about adding a Bifrost Multibit DAC to replace my D50. Worth it / not worth it? Truth is I’m pretty darn happy with how my current set-up sounds, but I like the looks of a stacked Bimby & Lyr 3. Most of what I listen to is 44/16 but I do have a few albums at *192/32* and I will happily listen to 320 kbps Spotify streams if I’m exploring for new music.
> 
> Will


192/32 ???


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

Will,

The fact that you do not mention any ultra-high bitrate music or DSD/DXD means that any advantage the D50 may have, shrinks immensely.  The Multi-bit / R2R ladder DAC design does present a 'different' sound that many like, but there are some that do not. Given that the price delta between D50 and Bifrost Multibit (Bimby) is approx. $350, I would suggest you give the Bifrost Multibit a try and see what you think, taking full advantage of the 15-day window to determine if the sound and aesthetics represents what you'd expect for a $350 diff.

Additional note:  Rumors are that there has been a secret update to Bifrost Multibit firmware and it has been shipping with new units (not sure of the time-frame, sorry).  Reports are that Bifrost Mutilbit sound profile is now much closer to Gungnir Mutlibit (Gumby) than Modi Muitlbit (Mimby).  Folks are pretty tickled with the new Bifrost Multibit improvements.  Might be well worth the try.

Additional Note 2:  The D50 has pretty much replaced Modi Multibit in my HP rig.  I am very happy with the sound and performance.  I will be sending Modi Multibit back to Schiit and pay $35 for a firmware upgrade that was previously 'secret' but has now been acknowledged.  I'll re-evaluate once I get it back and if still in love with D50 on my HP rig, will move Modi Multibit to my 2-channel stereo rig, where Multibit seems to make a more noted difference over headphones (according to many).

Good luck and post-up with your thoughts if you get a Bifrost Multibit!!


BTW -- 192/24, right??  I've never seen found 192/32 music and if it does exist, Bifrost does not do 32 bit at any sample rate.


----------



## 441879 (Mar 2, 2019)

Mike-WI said:


> 192/32 ???



Pretty sure that’s what it said on the DAC this AM. Maybe it was 192/24. Last night involved a fair amount of intoxicants and it’s probable that I misread the display.

I looked again just now- The D50 says 192/32 but I checked the audio file and it’s 192/24. The player appears to be upsampling.


----------



## ProfFalkin

will f said:


> Pretty sure that’s what it said on the DAC this AM. Maybe it was 192/24. Last night involved a fair amount of intoxicants and it’s probable that I misread the display.


Must have been 192/32 booze to get you so tipsy.


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> Must have been 192/32 booze to get you so tipsy.



Is that a code for 32 shots of Everclear?  

That would give me a starter buzz...


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Lyr 3 Owners:

Did you get your L3 with the built-in DAC, or no?

Can anyone comment on how Lyr 3 with Multibit DAC compares to Lyr 3 + Bitfrost Multibit (or Lyr 3 + Chord Mojo)? Gumby is a little bigger than I have space for. Thanks!!!


----------



## earnmyturns

Wheel Hoss said:


> Lyr 3 Owners:
> 
> Did you get your L3 with the built-in DAC, or no?
> 
> Can anyone comment on how Lyr 3 with Multibit DAC compares to Lyr 3 + Bitfrost Multibit (or Lyr 3 + Chord Mojo)? Gumby is a little bigger than I have space for. Thanks!!!


My Lyr 3 never had a DAC board. In my experience, it keeps up with some substantial R2R DACs, like the Holo Spring I used to own and the Metrum Onyx I own now. I have little doubt it will do well with the Bifrost MB.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Mar 2, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> Lyr 3 Owners:
> 
> Did you get your L3 with the built-in DAC, or no?
> 
> Can anyone comment on how Lyr 3 with Multibit DAC compares to Lyr 3 + Bitfrost Multibit (or Lyr 3 + Chord Mojo)? Gumby is a little bigger than I have space for. Thanks!!!


Yes.

I thought the modi MB was slightly better than the internal MB card, and would guess the Bimby would be better still.


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Will,
> 
> The fact that you do not mention any ultra-high bitrate music or DSD/DXD means that any advantage the D50 may have, shrinks immensely.  The Multi-bit / R2R ladder DAC design does present a 'different' sound that many like, but there are some that do not. Given that the price delta between D50 and Bifrost Multibit (Bimby) is approx. $350, I would suggest you give the Bifrost Multibit a try and see what you think, taking full advantage of the 15-day window to determine if the sound and aesthetics represents what you'd expect for a $350 diff.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insight. I’m with you on the D50 vs the Modi 2U- I thought the D50 sounded better too. 

Re the Bimby- I really can’t complain about the way my rig sounds now so dropping more money on the DAC for aesthetics will take some hard core rationalization. I guess you’re right- buy it, see if it’s worth it, and return it if it’s not.


----------



## 441879

bcowen said:


> Is that a code for 32 shots of Everclear?
> 
> That would give me a starter buzz...



I’m a cheap drunk. Two or three martinis and I can’t feel my face.


----------



## prof.utonium

you think Lyr will ever get a remote?


----------



## ProfFalkin

prof.utonium said:


> you think Lyr will ever get a remote?


No.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

Only in the form of a minor child or subservient spouse.  They've stated that they really have no interest in delivering on a remote control for a HP amp where folks are likely next to the gear and an arms-length away from the volume control.  2-channel stuff like preamps and their new Ragnarok 2 integrated amp / HP amp have remotes, but alas none for us HP guys.


----------



## prof.utonium

Bummer


----------



## Mike-WI

prof.utonium said:


> you think Lyr will ever get a remote?





prof.utonium said:


> Bummer


Why do you need a remote for a headphone amp?

I supposed you might have something with a really long headphone cord, but that seems like an unusual situation.


----------



## prof.utonium

When I unplug my headphones from my Lyr3 +phono it becomes a preamp for my Vidar.


----------



## Zachik

prof.utonium said:


> When I unplug my headphones from my Lyr3 +phono it becomes a preamp for my Vidar.


Schiit Saga might be a better solution for a tube preamp!
(and it comes with a remote...)


----------



## prof.utonium (Mar 2, 2019)

Then I would have needed extra components for headphones. My setup does HP & speakers. Of course no remote.


----------



## JamminVMI

prof.utonium said:


> When I unplug my headphones from my Lyr3 +phono it becomes a preamp for my Vidar.


I have the middlin’ expensive volume control for Lyr 3. It’s called Saga. Both are 3 meters away, no small children around, and Saga also drives an old power amp.


----------



## Mike-WI

prof.utonium said:


> When I unplug my headphones from my Lyr3 +phono it becomes a preamp for my Vidar.


Ah. Got it.


----------



## prof.utonium

JamminVMI said:


> I have the middlin’ expensive volume control for Lyr 3. It’s called Saga. Both are 3 meters away, no small children around, and Saga also drives an old power amp.


A $349 Remote.


----------



## tafens

Up too late. Again.

Just can’t stop listening to this Schiit.. Lyr3 w/multibit and stock Tung-Sol, to HD6XX.

Magic!


----------



## Ripper2860

prof.utonium said:


> When I unplug my headphones from my Lyr3 +phono it becomes a preamp for my Vidar.



I almost hate to post this as the purists may set me aflame, but, maybe something like this? ...

https://www.amazon.com/MCM-CUSTOM-50-8394-CONTROL-IR/dp/B01CX82KH2


----------



## ProfFalkin

prof.utonium said:


> A $349 Remote.


https://www.amazon.com/MCM-CUSTOM-50-8394-CONTROL-IR/dp/B01CX82KH2


Edit: @Ripper2860 funny how we went looking for the same thing.


----------



## Ripper2860

ProfFalkin said:


> https://www.amazon.com/MCM-CUSTOM-50-8394-CONTROL-IR/dp/B01CX82KH2
> 
> 
> Edit: @Ripper2860 funny how we went looking for the same thing.



Great Minds ...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Great Minds ...



If you're gonna stick some $0.03 surface mounted I/C's directly in the signal path, might as well just go with something like this (looks like the seller is accepting offers):


----------



## ProfFalkin

bcowen said:


> If you're gonna stick some $0.03 surface mounted I/C's directly in the signal path, might as well just go with something like this (looks like the seller is accepting offers):


I just offered $200.   Looks like a sweet system!


----------



## bcowen

ProfFalkin said:


> I just offered $200.   Looks like a sweet system!



LOL!  At least that remote volume box won't hurt the sound.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> I just offered $200.   Looks like a sweet system!



I'll go in half-sies and we can give it to Bill for his birthday!!  




bcowen said:


> If you're gonna stick some $0.03 surface mounted I/C's directly in the signal path, might as well just go with something like this (looks like the seller is accepting offers):



I offered him $150 to ship it to Bill with no box and blame him for it arriving in pieces.  ​
And it's .03¥ not $, Bill!!!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ripper2860 said:


> I'll go in half-sies and we can give it to Bill for his birthday!!
> 
> And it's .03¥ not $, Bill!!!


No way!  I just noticed it has dual cassette.  It's all mine, and I'm not sharing.

I wonder if I should up my bid...


----------



## Ripper2860

Bidding war if it's auto-reverse cassette!!


----------



## bcowen

I was just hoping you guys didn't notice the matched quad of 33s30 tubes in the 2nd picture with the top cover removed...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

I'm holding out for the GE ID-10T tubes.  The holy grail of all tubedom.  2nd only to the Mazda Miatas.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm holding out for the GE ID-10T tubes.  The holy grail of all tubedom.  2nd only to the Mazda Miatas.



Then I did good getting this for_ your_ birthday?  Whew.  

Seller accepted my offer of $5.  More than I wanted to spend, but figured you were worth it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 2, 2019)

Excellent.  They will make wonderful baubles for necklaces and bracelets to be sold in the kids' Etsy store!!   Thank you!!

(I hate to tell you, but you were robbed.  Last seller paid me to take them off his hands.)


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> I just offered $200.   Looks like a sweet system!


Hope you remembered to add the $2.99 for 1-year protection plan!


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Will,
> 
> The fact that you do not mention any ultra-high bitrate music or DSD/DXD means that any advantage the D50 may have, shrinks immensely.  The Multi-bit / R2R ladder DAC design does present a 'different' sound that many like, but there are some that do not. Given that the price delta between D50 and Bifrost Multibit (Bimby) is approx. $350, I would suggest you give the Bifrost Multibit a try and see what you think, taking full advantage of the 15-day window to determine if the sound and aesthetics represents what you'd expect for a $350 diff.
> 
> ...



I read a bunch of reviews and compared measurements with my D50- I think I’ll stick with the D50 for now.


----------



## kiwivda

I would like to share with you pals that my Lyr3 is on the way back home to Italy from a RMA, glad to know if it's fine now.


----------



## scott.c

I currently have a Vali 2 and I am about to pull the trigger on upgrading to the Lyr 3 (along with a Loki). I recently purchased the Peachtree Nova150 and a Marantz TT-15S1 turntable. I had the Vali 2 and a Magni, previously. I was really hoping that the Nova150 would be everything that I needed to use with my AKG K702 headphones (90% of my listening time is with headphones). Unfortunately, I have to turn the volume up almost all the way when listening to vinyl and around 80-90% when listening to digital (optical out from my iMac). So I hooked the Vali 2 into the loop feature of the Nova (similar to a tape loop) and it has helped some, but I really think the Lyr will give me the power that I need to drive the AKGs. So I guess what I’m asking for is advice/impressions about my set-up and intended path-forward. Also, is the loop feature the best/only option to use the Lyr/Loki with the Nova, or should I use the Pre Out from the Nova to the Lyr?


----------



## kiwivda

scott.c said:


> ... I really think the Lyr will give me the power that I need to drive the AKGs. So I guess what I’m asking for is advice/impressions about my set-up and intended path-forward. Also, is the loop feature the best/only option to use the Lyr/Loki with the Nova, or should I use the Pre Out from the Nova to the Lyr?



With my Lyr3 I drive a set of K701s, and these are, if possible, more hungry than others for power. Well, I can reassure you, you'll have a big happy smile on your face like the Joker. I've never heard them sound so loud and charismatic as with the Lyr3. You can almost touch the sound. These headphones are incredible, and extremely revealing when searching for nuances in the sound of valves.

I would say that of all the headphones I have, the K701s are the ones that benefit most from the exuberant power that the Lyr3 manages to deliver through the unbalanced connector, and this is a great asset.


----------



## 441879

scott.c said:


> I currently have a Vali 2 and I am about to pull the trigger on upgrading to the Lyr 3 (along with a Loki). I recently purchased the Peachtree Nova150 and a Marantz TT-15S1 turntable. I had the Vali 2 and a Magni, previously. I was really hoping that the Nova150 would be everything that I needed to use with my AKG K702 headphones (90% of my listening time is with headphones). Unfortunately, I have to turn the volume up almost all the way when listening to vinyl and around 80-90% when listening to digital (optical out from my iMac). So I hooked the Vali 2 into the loop feature of the Nova (similar to a tape loop) and it has helped some, but I really think the Lyr will give me the power that I need to drive the AKGs. So I guess what I’m asking for is advice/impressions about my set-up and intended path-forward. Also, is the loop feature the best/only option to use the Lyr/Loki with the Nova, or should I use the Pre Out from the Nova to the Lyr?



From Manufacturers specifications,the K702s aren’t particularly hard to drive or power hungry. Never listened to them myself, but your amps should have no problems delivering hearing damage. The manufacturer’s specs may be a little optimistic, but the more conservative measurements on inner fidelity suggest your Magni is more than big enough. The Lyr 3 will certainly give you a lot more power, but I think your problem lies elsewhere than the amp.


----------



## JamminVMI

scott.c said:


> I currently have a Vali 2 and I am about to pull the trigger on upgrading to the Lyr 3 (along with a Loki). I recently purchased the Peachtree Nova150 and a Marantz TT-15S1 turntable. I had the Vali 2 and a Magni, previously. I was really hoping that the Nova150 would be everything that I needed to use with my AKG K702 headphones (90% of my listening time is with headphones). Unfortunately, I have to turn the volume up almost all the way when listening to vinyl and around 80-90% when listening to digital (optical out from my iMac). So I hooked the Vali 2 into the loop feature of the Nova (similar to a tape loop) and it has helped some, but I really think the Lyr will give me the power that I need to drive the AKGs. So I guess what I’m asking for is advice/impressions about my set-up and intended path-forward. Also, is the loop feature the best/only option to use the Lyr/Loki with the Nova, or should I use the Pre Out from the Nova to the Lyr?


I have zero issues driving my K-7xx cans from Vali2 (I’ve never used high gain on the Vali with them), and Lyr 3 can send them into low earth orbit...

Given that the Peachtree is an integrated amp, have you tried listening to the AKGs straight out of the Peachtree? With that in mind, have you tried Vali2 using the iMac’s DAC? I’d be interested to hear how well the latter method drives the 702s...


----------



## scott.c

kiwivda said:


> With my Lyr3 I drive a set of K701s, and these are, if possible, more hungry than others for power. Well, I can reassure you, you'll have a big happy smile on your face like the Joker. I've never heard them sound so loud and charismatic as with the Lyr3. You can almost touch the sound. These headphones are incredible, and extremely revealing when searching for nuances in the sound of valves.
> 
> I would say that of all the headphones I have, the K701s are the ones that benefit most from the exuberant power that the Lyr3 manages to deliver through the unbalanced connector, and this is a great asset.



Thank you very much for your response. Very encouraging.


----------



## scott.c

will f said:


> From Manufacturers specifications,the K702s aren’t particularly hard to drive or power hungry. Never listened to them myself, but your amps should have no problems delivering hearing damage. The manufacturer’s specs may be a little optimistic, but the more conservative measurements on inner fidelity suggest your Magni is more than big enough. The Lyr 3 will certainly give you a lot more power, but I think your problem lies elsewhere than the amp.



Thank you for your advice. I probably overstated my issue with driving the headphones. I wouldn’t say that it is a problem, I just feel like having to turn the volume up to almost the maximum level when listening to a record is not ideal.


----------



## scott.c

JamminVMI said:


> I have zero issues driving my K-7xx cans from Vali2 (I’ve never used high gain on the Vali with them), and Lyr 3 can send them into low earth orbit...
> 
> Given that the Peachtree is an integrated amp, have you tried listening to the AKGs straight out of the Peachtree? With that in mind, have you tried Vali2 using the iMac’s DAC? I’d be interested to hear how well the latter method drives the 702s...



I have tried the AKGs straight out of the headphone amp section of the Peachtree. I had to turn the volume up almost to maximum volume to achieve the listening level that I prefer (with vinyl). Now with digital music, I only have to turn it up to about 80-85%. Still, not quite what I was hoping for. So I hooked up the Vali 2 and it helped somewhat with the volume issue and helped some with the sound quality (obviously, the tube helped color the sound). I am just interested in the more-powerful Lyr, which seems to be the way to go. I also have a Pro-Ject Tube Box S for my phono pre (which has two tubes), so having to turn the volume up almost all the way definitely reveals more surface noise, etc. with vinyl playback. 

Also, I haven’t tried the Vali 2 straight from my iMac, but I did use it in conjunction with a Modi 2 and then the Vali 2, and I was not satisfied with that at all. Hence the upgrade to the Nova, which I am happy with (playback through my speakers is stellar), but the majority of the time I have to listen through my headphones (late-night listening while my wife and kids are asleep). I enjoy/prefer the tube sound, so I feel like the Lyr/Loki combo would give me what I need to sufficiently power the AKGs. 

Thank you for your response. Very much appreciated.


----------



## JamminVMI

scott.c said:


> I have tried the AKGs straight out of the headphone amp section of the Peachtree. I had to turn the volume up almost to maximum volume to achieve the listening level that I prefer (with vinyl). Now with digital music, I only have to turn it up to about 80-85%. Still, not quite what I was hoping for. So I hooked up the Vali 2 and it helped somewhat with the volume issue and helped some with the sound quality (obviously, the tube helped color the sound). I am just interested in the more-powerful Lyr, which seems to be the way to go. I also have a Pro-Ject Tube Box S for my phono pre (which has two tubes), so having to turn the volume up almost all the way definitely reveals more surface noise, etc. with vinyl playback.
> 
> Also, I haven’t tried the Vali 2 straight from my iMac, but I did use it in conjunction with a Modi 2 and then the Vali 2, and I was not satisfied with that at all. Hence the upgrade to the Nova, which I am happy with (playback through my speakers is stellar), but the majority of the time I have to listen through my headphones (late-night listening while my wife and kids are asleep). I enjoy/prefer the tube sound, so I feel like the Lyr/Loki combo would give me what I need to sufficiently power the AKGs.
> 
> Thank you for your response. Very much appreciated.


Any chance someone around you has a set of K7anythings you could borrow? These cans aren’t (shouldn’t be) hard to drive... But I DO love my Lyr 3 as well...


----------



## scott.c

JamminVMI said:


> Any chance someone around you has a set of K7anythings you could borrow? These cans aren’t (shouldn’t be) hard to drive... But I DO love my Lyr 3 as well...



I do not know anyone that has a pair of K7-anythings, unfortunately. From what I’ve read here on the forums and a few other places, it does seem like the K7xxs can be hard to find the right amp to use with them. Maybe I should be using that type of wording rather than that they are hard to drive.


----------



## JamminVMI

scott.c said:


> I do not know anyone that has a pair of K7-anythings, unfortunately. From what I’ve read here on the forums and a few other places, it does seem like the K7xxs can be hard to find the right amp to use with them. Maybe I should be using that type of wording rather than that they are hard to drive.


Tonight I’ll grab my K7xxs and hook them to both vali 2 and lyr 3 and report back - this bugs me. And it’ll be fun. parkersburg, eh? Went to college in SW VA, hung out with friends in White Sulphur Springs, Charleston and Moundsville. I’ll have a go here in a bit...


----------



## scott.c

JamminVMI said:


> Tonight I’ll grab my K7xxs and hook them to both vali 2 and lyr 3 and report back - this bugs me. And it’ll be fun. parkersburg, eh? Went to college in SW VA, hung out with friends in White Sulphur Springs, Charleston and Moundsville. I’ll have a go here in a bit...



Sounds good. Parkersburg is a little over an hour’s drive from Charleston. We are right on the border across from Ohio.


----------



## JamminVMI

scott.c said:


> Sounds good. Parkersburg is a little over an hour’s drive from Charleston. We are right on the border across from Ohio.


Yeah, been through there on the way to and from VMI, but never stopped...

OK, i'm on the Vali 2 now, doin' the same thing you do - wife's in bed (kid's in Switzerland on her study abroad, so no need to worry about waking her <G>), and I've got the K7xxs on, love that sound signature, and the darn things are some of the most comfortable cans I own. I CANNOT go all the way to max volume on low gain with these - listening to the 50th anniversary edition of The Beatles (the white album), and on High Gain, I cannot get to 0000 (12) on the dial without blowing my ears. And that's playing O-bla-di... Flipped to back in the ussr and 10 o'clock is my "just a bit too loud" on low gain for this song.

The chain for this first test is: Squeezebox server to Raspberry Pi squeezebox player, S/PDIF coax to Mimby, then Vali 2, then AKGs.  Gonna switch source to my computer and iTunes into Mimby via USB. Will check same songs, please hold. OK, realised that I only had the 2009 remaster of this album ripped into iTunes (and the 50th anniversary remaster is showing how much better it is, OMG). But volume is the same on Back in the USSR -- too loud and harsh now at 10... Headed for O-Bla-Di... Same as before, more than plenty loud, though it's a softer song, so I can get to about 12 when it's louder than comfy, but my ears aren't bleeding.

Will head downstairs in the morning (actually later today, since it's 0031), since vali 2 is my desk rig and Lyr 3 is downstairs.  Right now, I'm a bit dead. ttyt.


John


----------



## kiwivda

JamminVMI said:


> Any chance someone around you has a set of K7anythings you could borrow? These cans aren’t (shouldn’t be) hard to drive... But I DO love my Lyr 3 as well...



I cloud but I'm in Italy.


----------



## Zachik

Has anyone here stacked Lyr3 and Saga?
I am thinking of getting a Saga (not to be used together with Lyr3), and due to desk space constraints I would love to be able to stack is below (or above) my Lyr3...
Does anyone have a bright idea, or better yet - done it and can post a photo?  

I wish Schiit offered a solid state version of Saga. In a case like Bimby or Jot... That would have been the perfect solution for my needs!


----------



## JamminVMI

scott.c said:


> Sounds good. Parkersburg is a little over an hour’s drive from Charleston. We are right on the border across from Ohio.


OK. Just got done with the K7xx cans and Lyr. On high gain, can’t go past 11, on low past about 2:30. Something is up on your end, I’m beginning to suspect the AKGs... can you test with another source, or use another set of cans? (Note that I’m giving you an excuse!)


----------



## JamminVMI

Zachik said:


> Has anyone here stacked Lyr3 and Saga?
> I am thinking of getting a Saga (not to be used together with Lyr3), and due to desk space constraints I would love to be able to stack is below (or above) my Lyr3...
> Does anyone have a bright idea, or better yet - done it and can post a photo?
> 
> I wish Schiit offered a solid state version of Saga. In a case like Bimby or Jot... That would have been the perfect solution for my needs!


Well, that would obv be difficult, but i do have Bifrost and Lyr side-by-side, and Saga (which I DO use w/Lyr, among other things) is on Bifrost.

With that said, I’m currently looking into those glass monitor shelves to see if I can get something nice that will give me enough clearance to change a tube. If I can find something I like, I’ll report bk.

Before you go crazy, I listen from about 10 feet away, and I’m lazy enough to want the Saga’s remote for volume. And go ahead and splurge for the Aluminium remote, it’s beautiful, and it’s got some heft to it...


----------



## Zachik

JamminVMI said:


> Well, that would obv be difficult, but i do have Bifrost and Lyr side-by-side, and Saga (which I DO use w/Lyr, among other things) is on Bifrost.
> 
> With that said, I’m currently looking into those glass monitor shelves to see if I can get something nice that will give me enough clearance to change a tube. If I can find something I like, I’ll report bk.
> 
> Before you go crazy, I listen from about 10 feet away, and I’m lazy enough to want the Saga’s remote for volume. And go ahead and splurge for the Aluminium remote, it’s beautiful, and it’s got some heft to it...


Well, I am not ruling out using the Saga with the Lyr3 if I have it anyhow.
I was looking at monitor glass shelves as well, but most are way too wide... Will consider rearranging my desk and maybe utilize the extra width of the glass shelf for other components re-arrange.  Likewise will report back if I find a good solution.


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> I cloud but I'm in Italy.


Grazie! Hai bisogno di una vacanza?

(Practicing: Hopefully I asked if he needed a holiday...)


----------



## JamminVMI (Mar 13, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Well, I am not ruling out using the Saga with the Lyr3 if I have it anyhow.
> I was looking at monitor glass shelves as well, but most are way too wide... Will consider rearranging my desk and maybe utilize the extra width of the glass shelf for other components re-arrange.  Likewise will report back if I find a good solution.


OK, I found two options, both are 6" wider than the Lyr/Saga, but that gives either 3" on a side, or let's call it 5" and a bit on one side for a post-it dispenser, or a pen holder, so I THINK i might go for that. There are actually several options for those, and they come in a 2-pack, which might well be handy, too. On amazon, item ID is: B07DGPBHKH - and there are colors and an option for a corner placement. Still hunting.

Check this option out on amazon: B01HQPJ0SO 10x10x5 plexi...


----------



## kiwivda (Mar 13, 2019)

JamminVMI said:


> Grazie! Hai bisogno di una vacanza?
> 
> (Practicing: Hopefully I asked if he needed a holiday...)



Yes that's for shure! Where are you from? Italy too?


----------



## JamminVMI

kiwivda said:


> Yes that's for shure! Where are you from? Italy too?


Thanks, but I'm near Los Angeles! (Actually nearer Schiit HQ than LA itself...)


----------



## kiwivda

Could be a great trip. I'll keep in touch!


----------



## Zachik

JamminVMI said:


> Check this option out on amazon: B01HQPJ0SO 10x10x5 plexi...


If only this one were glass (with metal feet)... Size is perfect but I doubt it would be steady enough!


----------



## scott.c

JamminVMI said:


> OK. Just got done with the K7xx cans and Lyr. On high gain, can’t go past 11, on low past about 2:30. Something is up on your end, I’m beginning to suspect the AKGs... can you test with another source, or use another set of cans? (Note that I’m giving you an excuse!)



I have a pair of in-ears that I could try out, but that would probably be apples and oranges compared to the K7xxs. I think that I’ve read enough here and based on your personal experience with the Lyr that it seems like a great choice for an upgrade for me. Thank you very much for your assistance and advice. I will report back once I have the Lyr and Loki hooked up and running.


----------



## JamminVMI (Mar 13, 2019)

scott.c said:


> I have a pair of in-ears that I could try out, but that would probably be apples and oranges compared to the K7xxs. I think that I’ve read enough here and based on your personal experience with the Lyr that it seems like a great choice for an upgrade for me. Thank you very much for your assistance and advice. I will report back once I have the Lyr and Loki hooked up and running.


You are most welcome. Still scratching my head regarding your AKGs though.. do advise, please... If you get no joy from Lyr, hit up Massdrop for the Sennys or AKGs...


----------



## porchwizard

I just though people should know that just because I bought a second tube (Tung Sol from Schiit) for my Lyr 3, it doesn't mean I'm starting down the a tube rolling rabbit hole.

No... Really!


----------



## Ripper2860

Of course not.  I mean come on - who would do that?


----------



## JamminVMI

porchwizard said:


> I just though people should know that just because I bought a second tube (Tung Sol from Schiit) for my Lyr 3, it doesn't mean I'm starting down the a tube rolling rabbit hole.
> 
> No... Really!


Singin’ the same old song...


----------



## 441879 (Mar 15, 2019)

porchwizard said:


> I just though people should know that just because I bought a second tube (Tung Sol from Schiit) for my Lyr 3, it doesn't mean I'm starting down the a tube rolling rabbit hole.
> 
> No... Really!



Of course not.   Here..  have another tube.


----------



## tafens

porchwizard said:


> I just though people should know that just because I bought a second tube (Tung Sol from Schiit) for my Lyr 3, it doesn't mean I'm starting down the a tube rolling rabbit hole.
> 
> No... Really!



I’m on my fourth now..
(there’s still time to turn back! )

In order of appearance:
Russian (new) Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB
Russian (NOS) 6N8S (Lyr3 stock)
Westinghouse 6SN7GTB (O-getter)
Psvane UK-6SN7 HIFI series


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> I’m on my fourth now..
> (there’s still time to turn back! )
> 
> In order of appearance:
> ...


What do you think of the Psvane UK 6SN7? Inquiring minds and all...


----------



## tafens

JamminVMI said:


> What do you think of the Psvane UK 6SN7? Inquiring minds and all...



I'm not entirely sure yet, haven't had many hours on it and it might need to burn-in some more.
However; here goes, as a comparison with the Tung-Sol. I'm listening with the HD6XX.

The Tung-Sol feels a bit more euphonic, perhaps a tad more low bass, and slightly wider sound stage.

The UK on the other hand might have a bit more detail and layering/separation. Also, I get the sensation that the vocals is stronger with this one, and takes up more space, which would mean it's a bit more mid-forward?

The UK is nice, but the Tung-Sol has made me think "wow, this sounds gooood" more than the UK.
So far, I like the Tung-Sol more, which is nice in a way because it's half the price, but I had expected to like the UK better.

Aside: The parcel with the UK was marked "light bulb". heh.


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> I'm not entirely sure yet, haven't had many hours on it and it might need to burn-in some more.
> However; here goes, as a comparison with the Tung-Sol. I'm listening with the HD6XX.
> 
> The Tung-Sol feels a bit more euphonic, perhaps a tad more low bass, and slightly wider sound stage.
> ...


Love that customs declaration!

I’ve got a couple of NOS Sylvanias (marked Baldwin) that I really love, but the Tung Sols are no slouch, either! Good to know, tyvm for the commentary on the PSvane. If your opinions change over time, I’d enjoy hearing.


----------



## TsKen

Anyone having issues with buzz/emi noise coming from the Lyr 3? I can't seem to figure out why i'm hearing this noticiable constant emi noise from the Lyr 3.

Currently my setup is Modi Multibit + Lyr 3 + Ether Flow.

I've tried all of the tubes, they all have EMI noises. I've tried changing the source to my Opus #1 and i'm still hearing EMI so it doesn't seem to be the source.(unless somehow my DAP is also the issue).

The only way I was able to get rid of the EMI is by using a ground loop isolator and feeding my Modi Multibit through it.

https://www.amazon.com/Isolator-BOS...oop+isolator&qid=1553318048&s=gateway&sr=8-10

The problem is it sounds muffled and not as good when using it through a ground loop isolator.

It's pretty annoying honestly... I've tried almost everything I could think of. Its the same problem with my crack speedball. My next plan is to see if I can get a optical out instead of using a USB with the Mimby but maybe tubes are just not possible for my setup 

anyone got any advice? This emi noise is driving me crazy.


----------



## TsKen

Found one hint after trying everything. Turns out its partially due to my cables?

I've been using the mediabridge RCA cable and swapped them with the Amazon Basic cable. Somehow the EMI dropped by 50% but is still there if I turn the volume knob very high. Well at least it's not as bad anymore but still getting occasional static/constant emi noise but at a lower volume.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 23, 2019)

You may want to reach out to Schiit support and possibly get an RMA for service.  Another member here sent his Mimby in for a frimware update and when he got it back, Schiit had reworked a ground issue in addition to the firmware update.  He did not send it in for a ground issue and when he inquired about it, they stated that when a unit comes in, they bring it up to current build parameters.  Seems like they may have uncovered a potential ground issue and they are addressing when units come in for service.  Worth a call.


----------



## earnmyturns

TsKen said:


> Anyone having issues with buzz/emi noise coming from the Lyr 3? I can't seem to figure out why i'm hearing this noticable constant emi noise from the Lyr 3.


Do you mean 1) a vibration from the Lyr 3 itself or 2) something you are hearing through your headphones? 

You might have a DC offset in your AC source, which requires some form of common-mode AC filter. Or your Lyr 3 might have a transformer issue, which Schiit would fix on warranty. 
The most common problem (which I have experienced) is close proximity between the RCA input cables and an AC power cable. I've addressed this problem totally with three changes:
High-quality shielded RCA cables (Blue Jeans LC-1)
Shielded AC cable (Shunyata Venom)
Improved physical placement of amp, source, and cables, including lifting RCA cables well above other cables


----------



## kiwivda

I have all my cables (RCA and AC and usb and other stuff) squeezed behind a sideboard and the wall, all packed together and no issue at all. Only thing rca cables, are SUPRA cables, the rest is the stuff you find in the box of other stuff.


----------



## TsKen (Jul 17, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## attmci (Mar 26, 2019)

You have to "burn in" the new tube for a while to let it selttle down.

I assume any Lyr 3 could produce some noise when you turn it to 5 O'Clock.


----------



## TsKen (Jul 17, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## Ripper2860

My apologies.  I thought the hum was related to the Mimby connected to Lyr 3 when I suggested reaching out for Mimby service.  Seems you are getting all sorted out.


----------



## tafens

@TsKen I also get some hum When I turn the volume to max, both on USB input (multibit card) with no cable connected and also on RCA input with no cables connected. This is on high gain.

It’s probably normal and I don’t worry about it. I’m nowhere near that volume level anyway, usually having it at about 9 o’clock.


----------



## TsKen

Seems to be the outlet. The amount of noise differs depending on which outlet the Lyr 3 is plugged into.

I'm going to give the Emotiva CMX-2 a try, hopefully it'll fix the issue for both my crack speedball and the lyr 3.


----------



## bcowen

TsKen said:


> Seems to be the outlet. The amount of noise differs depending on which outlet the Lyr 3 is plugged into.
> 
> I'm going to give the Emotiva CMX-2 a try, hopefully it'll fix the issue for both my crack speedball and the lyr 3.



Your comment on moving to a different apartment is key. Check the wall outlet first to see if it's wired correctly. Hot to hot, neutral to neutral, earth (safety) ground actually connected, wiring tight. If you're not comfortable messing with it, don't. You can get a cheap tester to see if it's wired correctly. If it's not, you can put a whole lot of effort into band-aiding the problem but still won't ever solve it.  And if it is in fact wired incorrectly, I'd ask your apartment management to send someone in and fix it as it's technically a life safety hazard.

https://www.amazon.com/Bastex-Teste...r&qid=1553554783&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1


----------



## TsKen

bcowen said:


> Your comment on moving to a different apartment is key. Check the wall outlet first to see if it's wired correctly. Hot to hot, neutral to neutral, earth (safety) ground actually connected, wiring tight. If you're not comfortable messing with it, don't. You can get a cheap tester to see if it's wired correctly. If it's not, you can put a whole lot of effort into band-aiding the problem but still won't ever solve it.  And if it is in fact wired incorrectly, I'd ask your apartment management to send someone in and fix it as it's technically a life safety hazard.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bastex-Teste...r&qid=1553554783&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1



Unfortunately my landlord is terrible and unless I force him under the law, he rarely takes care of his responsibilities. I'm moving out in a couple of months so i'm not even going to bother asking him....

I'm not sure if it matters but in my current apartment, they wired half of the house's outlets all under one switch in the electrical box. This was strange to me since in my previous apartment, every room was individually wired under a different switch from each other. I wonder if having several outlets all wired under one switch might have anything to do with it.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I have the Emotiva CMX-2 coming in a few days, hopefully it'll help fix the issue.


----------



## attmci

TsKen said:


> Seems to be the outlet. The amount of noise differs depending on which outlet the Lyr 3 is plugged into.
> 
> I'm going to give the Emotiva CMX-2 a try, hopefully it'll fix the issue for both my crack speedball and the lyr 3.


OK, then you will need this, https://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-power-plant-15/


----------



## Clemmaster

Yes, buy a $7500 regenerator for your $499 amp!


----------



## earnmyturns

TsKen said:


> I'm not sure if it matters but in my current apartment, they wired half of the house's outlets all under one switch in the electrical box. This was strange to me since in my previous apartment, every room was individually wired under a different switch from each other. I wonder if having several outlets all wired under one switch might have anything to do with it.


The general rule of electrical wiring is that if it looks iffy, it is iffier than it seems : bad grounding, switched live and neutral, current leakages, ... If the electrician could not comply with code, no way I'd trust them with anything. When I moved to my current home and we were redoing the AV setup, we found a lot of off-code wiring in the previous AV setup which I had ripped out thoroughly, even though it cost more than piggyback on some of it.


----------



## Zachik

attmci said:


> OK, then you will need this, https://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-power-plant-15/





Clemmaster said:


> Yes, buy a $7500 regenerator for your $499 amp!



When it comes to power, I say: go big, or go home!!


----------



## attmci (Mar 27, 2019)

Zachik said:


> When it comes to power, I say: go big, or go home!!


Hey, that's cheaper than build a brand new apartment. And the risk is still there if you wire the electric wrong. Then you have to rewire the whole apartment/building.


----------



## Deaj

Zachik said:


> If only this one were glass (with metal feet)... Size is perfect but I doubt it would be steady enough!



I'm using this acrylic riser and it works great.

Plymor Brand Clear Acrylic Rectangular Riser, 8" H x 12" W x 8" D (1/4" Thick)


----------



## tcellguy (Mar 30, 2019)

I just ordered a Lyr 3. I heard this at CanJam. I liked the Mjolnir 2 more, but I'm new to tubes and wanted to try the smaller form factor first.

Should I get a socket saver for this amp? I went with the Tung Sol as I believe that was the tube in place at CanJam and I really liked the sound with the HD800 they had at the booth.

Any recommendations for a tube with emphasized mid-bass and less intense treble? I'm looking to warm up the Ether Cx / AFC a bit for use listening to peaky metal music.

Also, is there anything special I need to do related to plugging / unplugging headphones with amp on? I've read some reports of this amp nuking headphones.


----------



## earnmyturns

tcellguy said:


> I just ordered a Lyr 3. I heard this at CanJam. I liked the Mjolnir 2 more, but I'm new to tubes and wanted to try the smaller form factor first.
> 
> Should I get a socket saver for this amp? I went with the Tung Sol as I believe that was the tube in place at CanJam and I really liked the sound with the HD800 they had at the booth.
> 
> ...


Socket saver will make it a bit easier to roll tubes as the built-in socket is quite recessed. But keep in mind that socket savers may increase noise. 

As for tubes, there's a separate Lyr 3 tube rolling thread that you might want to consult -- or not, if you want to save your wallet. There are quite a few suggestions there of tubes that improve over the Schiit-supplied new Tung Sol, which is a pretty good tube nevertheless. My favorites: In new tubes, the Psvane 6SN7-UK is not cheap, but worth it. In NOS: Ken Rad VT-231, Westinghouse D-getter. But I started with the Tung Sol, let it burn in, and only dove into exploring other tubes a few months later. Now I have too many


----------



## FLTWS

Savers may increase noise? Don't believe I've experienced that so far with any of my 3 Schiit amps. More points of contact does provide more points for problems to occur, so....  

.
"Psvane 6SN7-UK is not cheap, but worth it. In NOS: Ken Rad VT-231, Westinghouse D-getter"  All excellent sounding. Of the 3 I think my Ken Rad has a warmer sound with stronger bass which subjectively makes the highs a bit less strong sounding.


----------



## tcellguy (Mar 31, 2019)

earnmyturns said:


> Socket saver will make it a bit easier to roll tubes as the built-in socket is quite recessed. But keep in mind that socket savers may increase noise.
> 
> As for tubes, there's a separate Lyr 3 tube rolling thread that you might want to consult -- or not, if you want to save your wallet. There are quite a few suggestions there of tubes that improve over the Schiit-supplied new Tung Sol, which is a pretty good tube nevertheless. My favorites: In new tubes, the Psvane 6SN7-UK is not cheap, but worth it. In NOS: Ken Rad VT-231, Westinghouse D-getter. But I started with the Tung Sol, let it burn in, and only dove into exploring other tubes a few months later. Now I have too many



Thanks for the recommendations, I'll take a look at that thread. Are there any tube sellers that are well liked?


----------



## earnmyturns

tcellguy said:


> Thanks for the recommendations, I'll take a look at that thread. Are there any tube sellers that well are liked?


Brent Jessee http://www.audiotubes.com/ has been my source for NOS tubes.
Grant Fidelity for Psvane new tubes http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/.


----------



## FLTWS

earnmyturns said:


> Brent Jessee http://www.audiotubes.com/ has been my source for NOS tubes.
> Grant Fidelity for Psvane new tubes http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/.



Yep!


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Thinking of ordering this soon to pair with my Atticus. 

What’s the difference between the Russian and Tung Sol tube options (other than $25)?


----------



## tafens

Wheel Hoss said:


> Thinking of ordering this soon to pair with my Atticus.
> 
> What’s the difference between the Russian and Tung Sol tube options (other than $25)?



I haven’t listened to the Russian NOS extensively, but to my ears, using HD6XX headphones, the Tung-Sol has a bit more sound stage, detail/separation, and also the toe-tapping factor is higher


----------



## kman1211

tafens said:


> I haven’t listened to the Russian NOS extensively, but to my ears, using HD6XX headphones, the Tung-Sol has a bit more sound stage, detail/separation, and also the toe-tapping factor is higher



That's pretty much my impressions too but I also find the Tung-Sol is also brighter than the Russian NOS. Headphones that are pushing it as too bright in the mid-upper treble may be a tad too bright with the Tung Sol.


----------



## Yviena

Hmm seems that high gain is a little too much for my HD800, currently at 8.5 O'clock on the volume pot with additional  -6dB from the dac, and it's still too loud sometimes i can't imagine running 0dbfs from the dac without running into channel imbalance.


----------



## tcellguy

Mine came in today. First impressions with the Tung Sol are highly favorable. This amp is extremely smooth in the midrange and treble vs. the Jotunheim. I'm used to using the one notch white filters with the Ether Cx / Aeon, but with this amp so far my preference is no filters. 

The only perceived trade off thus far is reduced "slam" in the bass vs. the Jotunheim.


----------



## 441879

earnmyturns said:


> The general rule of electrical wiring is that if it looks iffy, it is iffier than it seems : bad grounding, switched live and neutral, current leakages, ... If the electrician could not comply with code, no way I'd trust them with anything. When I moved to my current home and we were redoing the AV setup, we found a lot of off-code wiring in the previous AV setup which I had ripped out thoroughly, even though it cost more than piggyback on some of it.



My bet is no electricians were involved in the wiring of your former AV setup. I’m constantly amazed more people don’t get fried from doing their own wiring. I’m not an electrician, but I have learned the fun way to NEVER trust the wiring on a homeowner installed appliance.


----------



## earnmyturns

will f said:


> My bet is no electricians were involved in the wiring of your former AV setup. I’m constantly amazed more people don’t get fried from doing their own wiring. I’m not an electrician, but I have learned the fun way to NEVER trust the wiring on a homeowner installed appliance.


Indeed. The fire hazards in that old wiring were scary.


----------



## EELawson

tcellguy said:


> I just ordered a Lyr 3. I heard this at CanJam. I liked the Mjolnir 2 more, but I'm new to tubes and wanted to try the smaller form factor first.
> 
> Should I get a socket saver for this amp? I went with the Tung Sol as I believe that was the tube in place at CanJam and I really liked the sound with the HD800 they had at the booth.
> 
> ...



In my humble opinion, you should get a quality socket saver.  Tube Monger makes great ones.  Those cheap ones on Ebay from China are horrible. Three of the four I bought broke in my Freya. Quite unnerving.

The extra cost of the Tuber Monger units are worth it.  (You only need one, anyway, for the Lyr.)


----------



## scott.c

scott.c said:


> I have a pair of in-ears that I could try out, but that would probably be apples and oranges compared to the K7xxs. I think that I’ve read enough here and based on your personal experience with the Lyr that it seems like a great choice for an upgrade for me. Thank you very much for your assistance and advice. I will report back once I have the Lyr and Loki hooked up and running.



So, I've had my Lyr 3 for almost three weeks now, but life has been extremely busy and I haven't had an opportunity to respond to my posts here a few weeks ago. First off, I love the Lyr. Immediate improvement in volume to my AKGs, and I love the sound, as well. They must not have had any Tung-Sols when I placed my order, as I didn't have the option to select them. So I burned in the Lyr with the Russian NOS tube, and I was satisfied with the sound (albeit I was not able to spend very much time listening). After a week or so of burn-in, I listened for a few hours and I noticed that the soundstage seemed a little more narrow (or closed-in) than what I had initially noticed. Fatigue set in after a short while, as well. I was able to address this somewhat with the Loki, but, still... something was missing. So I bought three tubes based on some recommendations from the Lyr 3 tube-rolling thread (a Westinghouse 6SN7GTB, a JAN-CRC-GT RCA black plate, and a US Navy Raytheon JAN-CRP-GT). The Raytheon was actually a replacement tube for a vintage Ken Rad GT black plate that I originally ordered and the seller had incorrectly listed as a 6SN7 (was actually a 12SN7). I received the Raytheon first and burned it in for close to 70 hours. When I sat down to listen last night, I only had sound from the right channel. I shut down the amp for a few minutes and removed/reinserted the tube and no change. I momentarily freaked out thinking that the Lyr was damaged. I switched out the Raytheon with the Russian NOS and all was well again. So, apparently, I have a damaged tube. I have been so busy that I honestly cannot remember if I listened to the Raytheon tube at all when I initially plugged it in. I would just turn it on and let music play for 15-16 hours a day on it. Today, I swapped out the Russian NOS for the Westinghouse and started burning it in. From what I remember, it takes around 100 hours to really sound great.

Long story, but I just wanted to say that I am very happy with the Lyr 3 and I am looking forward to hearing the refinement in sound through further use/tube-rolling.

Thanks to all who initially offered advice and encouragement.


----------



## kumar402

I got Lyr 3 last week and have been enjoying it with Empyrean. However I read so many reports of LYR 3 damaging headphones. I am not much of electrical engineer but doesn't it have some protective mecahnism to not let any surge go to headphone and damaging it in the process. Also am I in greater risk running an expensive headphone out of Lyr3?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2019)

kumar402 said:


> I got Lyr 3 last week and have been enjoying it with Empyrean. However I read so many reports of LYR 3 damaging headphones. I am not much of electrical engineer but doesn't it have some protective mecahnism to not let any surge go to headphone and damaging it in the process. Also am I in greater risk running an expensive headphone out of Lyr3?


First I am hearing about "many" reports, of damaging headphones?  If you are worried, just plug in the headphones, after startup, and unplug before shutdown.


----------



## Ripper2860

I only know of 2 cases where Lyr 3 has taken out a headphone, and those were some time ago.  If this was a wide-spread issue, I think there would be many more people reporting it in this thread and folks would be outside Schiit offices with pitch-forks and torches.


----------



## kumar402

Thanks guys good to know we don't have any recent incidents. I really like how my Empyrean pairs with Lyr3. I like HD800and 600 out of LP but Empyrean pairs better with Lyr 3 then LP.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> I only know of 2 cases where Lyr 3 has taken out a headphone, and those were some time ago.  If this was a wide-spread issue, I think there would be many more people reporting it in this thread and folks would be outside Schiit offices with pitch-forks and torches.


Yep.  Those are the only 2 I know of.


----------



## 441879

My Lyr 3 died with a puff of smoke on start-up with a pair of AFCs plugged in. No damage to the phones. Amp had to go back for warranty repair / replacement. Don’t know which they did.


----------



## tommytakis

I recently picked up a used Lyr3 to downgrade from EC ZDS, and I gotta say, it's ... good enough! (haha)

setup: Soekris 1541 > Lyr 3 > Verite/ UERR 

-Small stage but decent layering and imaging 
- neutral-ish tonality with really good treble presentation  
- versatility; It was able to drive my UERR and Verite both fine with plenty of headroom 

Obviously it doesn't quite match up my previous setup (Yggy + ZDS) but it'll suffice for now until I crave for something else  

Has anyone tried the Psvane 6SN7 with the Lyr3?  Would appreciate any input/ impressions on the pairing!


----------



## Yviena (Apr 20, 2019)

tommytakis said:


> I recently picked up a used Lyr3 to downgrade from EC ZDS, and I gotta say, it's ... good enough! (haha)
> 
> setup: Soekris 1541 > Lyr 3 > Verite/ UERR
> 
> ...



I got the same setup just with a HD800 instead, if your handy with a soldering iron, and don't mind following proper power on/off sequence you can remove the muting FETs from the soekris, they degrade the low level details a little, and is a common tweak done on the 1021/1941 boards from soekris.

Or alternatively if your not willing to do that,  you can experiment with flashing different filters to the soekris dac, or trying out HQplayer upsampling to 352/384.


----------



## tommytakis

Yviena said:


> I got the same setup just with a HD800 instead, if your handy with a soldering iron, and don't mind following proper power on/off sequence you can remove the muting FETs from the soekris, they degrade the low level details a little, and is a common tweak done on the 1021/1941 boards from soekris.
> 
> Or alternatively if your not willing to do that,  you can experiment with flashing different filters to the soekris dac, or trying out HQplayer upsampling to 352/384.



oh wow, interesting! I have no idea what FETs are but is there a link where I can read up and learn about the mod? 

I've updated the firmware recently, but I have yet to try adding the new filters. Is HQplayer the one you prefer out of all the community-based filters? I heard the Nyquist and NOS filters are pretty good as well


----------



## Yviena (Apr 20, 2019)

tommytakis said:


> oh wow, interesting! I have no idea what FETs are but is there a link where I can read up and learn about the mod?
> 
> 
> 
> I've updated the firmware recently, but I have yet to try adding the new filters. Is HQplayer the one you prefer out of all the community-based filters? I heard the Nyquist and NOS filters are pretty good as well



Yeah I prefer upsampling via HQplayer , as for the muting fets they are the the 3-pin sot23 on the TP9-TP12 traces after the resistor array, information about the tweak is buried somewhere in the r2r board reference thread on diyaudio, but you should try out first the filter posted here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...6-filter-brewing-soekris-r2r-post5726148.html or a trial period of HQplayer to see what you like best.

That filter i linked has the DC filter removed some people reported positive gains in the SQ by removing it.


----------



## earnmyturns (Apr 21, 2019)

tommytakis said:


> Has anyone tried the Psvane 6SN7 with the Lyr3? Would appreciate any input/ impressions on the pairing!


You mean the Psvane 6SN7-UK or the Psvane 6SN6-SE? I've used both on my Lyr 3. I'd say the SE is slightly smoother, the UK somewhat punchier. Right now, I have the SE on my other amp (Apex Peak), and I have a Reliatron D-getter vintage tube on the Lyr 3. I've not done really careful side-by-sides, but my overall impression is that the D-getter improves the Lyr 3 stage beyond the Psvane tubes. All of those, though are quite an improvement on the new Tung-Sol I got with the Lyr 3. All of the above with a Metrum Onyx NOS DAC. My hunch (I own a dac1541 but it's at work with a solid-state amp and I've not brought it home to do a side-by-side) is that these hybrid 6SN7 amps (Lyr 3 and Apex Peak) pair especially well with the bolder colors of a good NOS DAC.


----------



## tommytakis

earnmyturns said:


> You mean the Psvane 6SN7-UK or the Psvane 6SN6-SE? I've used both on my Lyr 3. I'd say the SE is slightly smoother, the UK somewhat punchier. Right now, I have the SE on my other amp (Apex Peak), and I have a Reliatron D-getter vintage tube on the Lyr 3. I've not done really careful side-by-sides, but my overall impression is that the D-getter improves the Lyr 3 stage beyond the Psvane tubes. All of those, though are quite an improvement on the new Tung-Sol I got with the Lyr 3.



oh I had no idea there were 2 different versions, my bad! 

Thank you for your input! it sounds like the UK is the one I am looking for because I thought the Lyr 3's bass sounded a bit soft for my taste with the stock tubes


----------



## earnmyturns

tommytakis said:


> oh I had no idea there were 2 different versions, my bad!
> 
> Thank you for your input! it sounds like the UK is the one I am looking for because I thought the Lyr 3's bass sounded a bit soft for my taste with the stock tubes


Yes, the UK may get the Lyr 3 closer to what you seek. For my taste -- with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow 1.1 -- the Reliatron D-getter tube is the best all-round fit, but I should not use it too much, as they are hard to replace :/


----------



## tafens

tommytakis said:


> I recently picked up a used Lyr3 to downgrade from EC ZDS, and I gotta say, it's ... good enough! (haha)
> 
> setup: Soekris 1541 > Lyr 3 > Verite/ UERR
> 
> ...



What tube have you got in the Lyr3 now?


----------



## Ichos

Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 22, 2019)

Ichos said:


> Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?


Nope.  The tube implementation, is magical.


----------



## tafens

Ichos said:


> Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?



To my ears there’s no metallic or harshness to the highs in the Lyr3 (Tung-Sol tube).

However, after hearing the Lyr3 and then going back to the Magni3, I noticed the Magni does exhibit some harshness to the treble to me, in comparison, that I didn’t notice before. Maybe it’s a solid state vs tube thing.


----------



## earnmyturns

Ichos said:


> Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?


Not at all. I've owned in sequence: Asgard 2, Jotunheim, Lyr 3 and the Lyr 3 has the best upper mids (which were my main complaint with the A2 and the Jot, especially for piano) and highs. Detailed but smooth, excellent rendering of cymbals for example.


----------



## earnmyturns

tafens said:


> Maybe it’s a solid state vs tube thing.


No. The Neurochrome HP-1 I own is solid state but does not suffer from that touch of harshness.


----------



## kumar402

Ichos said:


> Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?


I am using Lyr3 with Empyrean and I don't find any metallic or lean timbre but detailed and smooth high end.
Lyr3 has good synergy with Empyrean, very detailed and smooth. Good body to midrange.
I haven't tried 600/800s out of it. Will try it out and will let you know.


----------



## Ichos

Thank you.
I appreciate all the feedback.
That timbre I am talking is very obvious with Mjolnir 2 dedpide being a generally warm amp at least with the HD800s.
I am selling it and trying to decide between maybe a Lyr 3 or a more expensive Vioelectric V280.
I can't stand that metallic timbre of Schiit amps I have owned like this one and Valhalla 2.


----------



## Wes S

Ichos said:


> Thank you.
> I appreciate all the feedback.
> That timbre I am talking is very obvious with Mjolnir 2 dedpide being a generally warm amp at least with the HD800s.
> I am selling it and trying to decide between maybe a Lyr 3 or a more expensive Vioelectric V280.
> I can't stand that metallic timbre of Schiit amps I have owned like this one and Valhalla 2.


No sure if you tube rolled, with the M2 or V2, but the stock tubes, are not the best, and could contribute to a brighter metallic like sound.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Apr 22, 2019)

I really don't understand the recent swell of Violetric / Lake People love.   Seems the hype machine is in overdrive on these.   My experience with them was less than flattering.  Both the V220 and G109 sounds stale and flat to me.

Anyway... on the Mjolnir 2 side of things, the Amprex A frame is far from metallic sounding, or so I've found.  I run those in my Mj2 at work with the ZMF Verite.


----------



## Ichos

Why is there a Vioelectric love going on?
I didn't know , i have just read after a lot of research that the V280 is a great match for HD800.

Anyway back to the subject , i have rolled jj 6922 gold pins , EH 6922 , Gold Lions 6922 , GE5670w and some mullards don't remember the number and Lisst.
The best were the mullards.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Ichos said:


> Why is there a Vioelectric love going on?
> I didn't know , i have just read after a lot of research that the V280 is a great match for HD800.
> 
> Anyway back to the subject , i have rolled jj 6922 gold pins , EH 6922 , Gold Lions 6922 , GE5670w and some mullards don't remember the number and Lisst.
> The best were the mullards.


I love me a good Mullard.  =)


----------



## Ichos

Especially  a CV2493....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 22, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> I love me a good Mullet.  =)



Oooook...  To each their own, I guess.


----------



## kumar402

Ichos said:


> Thank you.
> I appreciate all the feedback.
> That timbre I am talking is very obvious with Mjolnir 2 dedpide being a generally warm amp at least with the HD800s.
> I am selling it and trying to decide between maybe a Lyr 3 or a more expensive Vioelectric V280.
> I can't stand that metallic timbre of Schiit amps I have owned like this one and Valhalla 2.


HD800s has tendency of sending its owner in chase of a dragon. Trust me I know as Valhalla2 and 800s owner. In the end I ended up buying Empyrean and now I'm contempt with Lyr 3 and Empy.


----------



## Ichos

Now that is a very brave solution that can solve a lot of problems but stilling paying my debts for the HD800s.....!!!
Anyway the Emps are just out of reach and still like the HD800s despite chasing the dragon.
I am trying to find the ''poor'' man solution for HD800s.
Still looking.


----------



## Wes S

ProfFalkin said:


> I love me a good Mullard.  =)


Me too!  As long as it is a good one, and none of the silver shield/dimple getters, from the 70's.


----------



## Ichos

kumar402 said:


> HD800s has tendency of sending its owner in chase of a dragon. Trust me I know as Valhalla2 and 800s owner. In the end I ended up buying Empyrean and now I'm contempt with Lyr 3 and Empy.



Did you have the chance to try the HD800 with the Lyr 3?


----------



## kumar402

Ichos said:


> Now that is a very brave solution that can solve a lot of problems but stilling paying my debts for the HD800s.....!!!
> Anyway the Emps are just out of reach and still like the HD800s despite chasing the dragon.
> I am trying to find the ''poor'' man solution for HD800s.
> Still looking.


No what I was trying to say do audition some other Headphones as well. For eg. from ZMF line Like Auteur. Cost same as 800s and is neutral and musical. With 800s the quest never ends. Sometime amp, then tubes and then NOS DAC.


----------



## kumar402

Ichos said:


> Did you have the chance to try the HD800 with the Lyr 3?


Will do in a day or so. Right now away with work related stuff


----------



## Ichos

Here in Greece is very difficult to get in hand's ''exotic'' headphones like ZMF.
When you find the time please post impressions.


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 22, 2019)

Ichos said:


> Here in Greece is very difficult to get in hand's ''exotic'' headphones like ZMF.
> When you find the time please post impressions.


I get you...
Also I would suggest some EQ. Like that from ORATORY1990. Sometime this metallic timbre is due to distortion causing higher amplitude above 9K-10K.  Try to eq down few DB above 10K and check if it responds well.
Also check if you can get Monoprice Liquid Platinum there. It's in same range as schiit amp. However it won't kill the brightness but doesn't bring any metallic  timbre with it and uses same tube as your current amp.


----------



## Ichos

Thank you.
I have tried oratory and liked it but usually I am spinning cd's from my cd player so can't EQ.


----------



## 441879

Ichos said:


> Does the Lyr 3 exhibit the same metallic and lean timbre at the highs as the most Schiit amps?


As Wes S said, Nope. There are some headphones that really don’t work with my Magni 3 but sound great on the Lyr3 for exactly that reason.


----------



## earnmyturns

*Strong praise for Lyr 3 + Psvane 6SN7-UK*. Just asked my musical, keen-hearing better half to compare the Lyr 3 with my latest expensive toy, a solid-state Phonitor XE amp. Source is Metrum Onyx (SE for Lyr 3, balanced for Phonitor XE), same headphones -- MrSpeakers Ether C Flow 1.1 -- with an SE MrSpeakers VIVO cable for the Lyr 3, and an older MrSpeakers DUM balanced cable for the Phonitor XE. I had adjusted levels by ear earlier (thinking about getting a miniDSP EARS to do more accurate comparisons...). Material was a fabulous (I say that being a Bartók maniac, with 5 recordings of the 2nd and 4 of the 1st -- others are: Gideon Kremer, Berliner, Boulez; Arabella Steinbacher, Janowski, Suisse Romande; Renaud Capuçon, Roth, LSO) digital issue of Bartók's 1st and 2nd concertos with Christian Tetzlaff on violin and the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra led by Hannu Lintu. Anyway, she stated that Lyr 3 was more vivid, dynamic, engaging, while Phonitor XE was smoother, more accurate. If she had to choose, she'd take Lyr 3. Amazing performance for an amp+tube < 0.5 x competitor.


----------



## FLTWS

Of all my HP amps, the LYR3 is the most engaging to listen to because it provides such a clear window to the recorded sound. I keep coming back to it time and again after listening to my others, both tube and SS. And for only $500.00. Spending as much or more than the LYR3 costs in tubes to get a sound palette(s) to your liking and add variety is not a waste of money with this amp. My other 3 tube HP amps sound good but not quite this good. Maybe it's the sound of 6SN7 tube types. It's sent me back in time to try and recapture the enjoyment I experience with those great tube designs I started with in the 70's and 80's (measurements be dam'd!) as I put together a 2 channel system, not having had one since 2004.


----------



## Yviena

Hmm i thought that high gain sounded better in lyr 3 at first, but after carefully matching the volume down to 0.1db i can't really hear a difference between them with my HD800 anymore, maybe other tubes than psvane will respond differently though.


----------



## MtnMan307

I have gotten 2 new headphones in the last 3 days.  A beautiful new ZMF Aeolus and an old pair of AKG K240 Sextetts.  The Lyr 3 sounds beautiful with both and really does well with all of my cans.  Even though the K240s are 600 ohms and not very sensitive, the Lyr 3 drives them with a lot of authority at 25% or less volume on high gain.  The Aeolus are easier to drive but also an excellent match IMO.  This amp really seems like a do-all performer.  All kinds of power yet very refined and addictive to listen to.


----------



## tafens

MtnMan307 said:


> I have gotten 2 new headphones in the last 3 days.  A beautiful new ZMF Aeolus and an old pair of AKG K240 Sextetts.  The Lyr 3 sounds beautiful with both and really does well with all of my cans.  Even though the K240s are 600 ohms and not very sensitive, the Lyr 3 drives them with a lot of authority at 25% or less volume on high gain.  The Aeolus are easier to drive but also an excellent match IMO.  This amp really seems like a do-all performer.  All kinds of power yet very refined and addictive to listen to.



The Lyr3 har certainly never disappointed me, and was a good step up from the Magni3 (which in itself isn’t a bad amp in any way, shape, or form). Just yesterday I listened to some classical film music I love (soundtrack to the movie Where Eagles Dare, by Ron Goodwin and orchestra) that hadn’t listened to for some time. I think last real listen was with the Magni3. I was immediately struck with the detail, imaging, bass- and overall presence as I don’t remember hearing before.

I see in your sig that you also have the Jotunheim and Vali2, and it would be interesting to know how you think the Lyr3 compares to them? Especially with the HD650.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> Of all my HP amps, the LYR3 is the most engaging to listen to because it provides such a clear window to the recorded sound. I keep coming back to it time and again after listening to my others, both tube and SS. And for only $500.00. Spending as much or more than the LYR3 costs in tubes to get a sound palette(s) to your liking and add variety is not a waste of money with this amp. My other 3 tube HP amps sound good but not quite this good. Maybe it's the sound of 6SN7 tube types. It's sent me back in time to try and recapture the enjoyment I experience with those great tube designs I started with in the 70's and 80's (measurements be dam'd!) as I put together a 2 channel system, not having had one since 2004.



Of all *my* HP amps, the Lyr 3 is the only one.  

Prior to a little over a year ago, my whole audio life was dedicated to the 2-channel 'big rig' that has seen an unbelievable number of changes (upwards and downwards) and an even more unbelievable amount of money poured into it over the past 25+ years. I got started with HP's planning to spend no more than $500 for the whole system. Period. Not because I _couldn't_ spend more if I'd wanted to, but that was the arbitrary number I picked as sufficient for the purpose. The big rig would still get the huge majority of my listening time -- the HP rig was only intended for those times when family or domestic situations wouldn't allow 100 dB's blasting out of the boundaries of the living room. So I started with a Vali 2 (already had a huge pile of 6922-family tubes, so tube rolling was a no-cost opportunity), a Modi multibit, and a $150 pair of well regarded, well reviewed, well known 'cans.  Oh how awful and disappointing that was. My son's horribly overpriced and equally underachieving Beats cans sounded better (yes, I know that's a statement most won't even believe ).  Fortunately I'd bought those crap cans from Amazon, so boxed 'em up and sent them back...didn't even have to pay shipping.  The gnawing fear was not so much that those particular cans sucked, but that this was the step down I'd have to make to go from a well developed 2-channel rig to headphones.  But I don't ever give up on anything quite_ that _easily, so in came a  pair of MonoPrice M1060's.  Ahhh.  Now my fear was dissipating.  And quickly.  In came a Loki, more than anything just to add a little whomp and heft down low. Although the M1060's were quite good (and especially so for the money), even with the Loki they didn't fully float my boat.  Suddenly a pair of previously loved Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes appeared for a really good price. Now my boat was really starting to float.  But it felt like the Vali 2's balls weren't quite big enough to let the Alphas sing at their best, so a week later the Lyr 3 appeared on the doorstep.  Then an EITR, mostly because I loved how Schiit described the proper pronunciation.  Then some previously loved Aeon's showed up for a good price.  Then I learned about this thing called adapting. Huh?  I'd always thought that if a component used a, say, 6922, you put 6922's in it. But now you mean I can get an adapter and put a 6SN7 in it?  Holy schiit.  The intended $500 budget went to hell in a handbasket, but that's far more usual than _unusual_ when it comes to me and audio stuff.   

At this point, I have a system that provides an immense amount of listening enjoyment. I just sit down and immediately connect to the music emotionally. None of the intellectual side of the brain saying "this is wrong" or "this could be better" or "this is missing" or "maybe I need to get this" or any of that usual stuff. I know there are better HP amps and better HP's out there, but beyond rolling tubes (which I do mostly just for fun) I have no desire, inclination, or perceived need to change anything. I just enjoy the music. Obviously that's what it's all supposed to be about anyway....but too often loses meaning when the word 'audiophile' starts being bandied about. I attribute most of this to the fact that the Lyr 3 is just an excellent amp regardless of its price. As well, I stumbled on a nicely synergistic amp/headphone combo very early on....not from research, experience, or smarts...just luck.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

"None of the intellectual side of the brain saying "this is wrong" or "this could be better" or "this is missing" or "maybe I need to get this" or any of that usual stuff. I know there are better HP amps and better HP's out there, but beyond rolling tubes (which I do mostly just for fun) I have no desire, inclination, or perceived need to change anything. I just enjoy the music."

_*Who are you and what have you done with Bill!!??*_


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> "None of the intellectual side of the brain saying "this is wrong" or "this could be better" or "this is missing" or "maybe I need to get this" or any of that usual stuff. I know there are better HP amps and better HP's out there, but beyond rolling tubes (which I do mostly just for fun) I have no desire, inclination, or perceived need to change anything. I just enjoy the music."
> 
> Who are you and what have you done with Bill!!??



Apparently @Ripper2860 is back.  Quick.....everyone hide.


----------



## Ripper2860

Waiting to catch the flight home.  You're safe - for now.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Waiting to catch the flight home.  You're safe - for now.



I'm going to be highly impressed if you can catch a plane.  

Maybe a 737 MAX would be possible though...I think they're all still on the ground.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> I'm going to be highly impressed if you can catch a plane.
> 
> Maybe a 737 MAX would be possible though...I think they're all still on the ground.


Could be the one in the 
*Florida river.*


----------



## MtnMan307

tafens said:


> The Lyr3 har certainly never disappointed me, and was a good step up from the Magni3 (which in itself isn’t a bad amp in any way, shape, or form). Just yesterday I listened to some classical film music I love (soundtrack to the movie Where Eagles Dare, by Ron Goodwin and orchestra) that hadn’t listened to for some time. I think last real listen was with the Magni3. I was immediately struck with the detail, imaging, bass- and overall presence as I don’t remember hearing before.
> 
> I see in your sig that you also have the Jotunheim and Vali2, and it would be interesting to know how you think the Lyr3 compares to them? Especially with the HD650.



All 3 Schiit amps are very good.  IMO the Lyr 3 is the best.  It has more power out of its single ended 1/4" jack than the Jotunheim does with its balanced XLR jack.  It sounds more engaging and addictive than the Jot, although the Jot has a more aggressive/intense sound.  Lyr 3 does pretty much everything better than the Vali 2.  Vali 2 does have a more unique, euphonic listening experience, but I haven't rolled any tubes with the Lyr 3.  I'm using the upgraded Tung-Sol tube in it.  I have an Amperex PQ in the Vali 2 and really like it. 

They all play well with the HD650.  I would say it's almost a toss up between the Lyr 3 and the Jot.  The 650 is a pretty laid back headphone and the Jot gives it more energy and overall impact.  The Lyr 3 plays to the strengths of the 650 more.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I'm going to be highly impressed if you can catch a plane...



When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper.


----------



## tafens

A curious thing - I usually have the Lyr3 on warm-up for one or two hours before listening, only powered on, no music or even source connected.
Just turning it on an letting it sit while I do other stuff before it’s time to listen 

The thing is, even though everything is warmed up, I can almost swear there is a difference in the sound after just playing a few minutes of music. If I play the same song I started with again after 5-10 minutes, it sounds more open to me, not much, but noticeable. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, or the tube (or amp) that needs some music flowing for a short time to get up to speed..? Anyone else notice this?


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

tafens said:


> A curious thing - I usually have the Lyr3 on warm-up for one or two hours before listening, only powered on, no music or even source connected.
> Just turning it on an letting it sit while I do other stuff before it’s time to listen
> 
> The thing is, even though everything is warmed up, I can almost swear there is a difference in the sound after just playing a few minutes of music. If I play the same song I started with again after 5-10 minutes, it sounds more open to me, not much, but noticeable. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, or the tube (or amp) that needs some music flowing for a short time to get up to speed..? Anyone else notice this?


I always play music, while my Lyr 3 is on, with volume at listening level.  I have left it on once, with no music, for half a day, and came back to a microphonic tube.  The tube was not microphonic at all before that.  I don't know if not having music flowing and volume up, had anything to do with it, but I am not trying it again.  The tube was a KenRad black glass, and cost a lot.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> A curious thing - I usually have the Lyr3 on warm-up for one or two hours before listening, only powered on, no music or even source connected.
> Just turning it on an letting it sit while I do other stuff before it’s time to listen
> 
> The thing is, even though everything is warmed up, I can almost swear there is a difference in the sound after just playing a few minutes of music. If I play the same song I started with again after 5-10 minutes, it sounds more open to me, not much, but noticeable. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, or the tube (or amp) that needs some music flowing for a short time to get up to speed..? Anyone else notice this?



If it's only your imagination, then great imaginations imagine alike.    I do the same thing by turning it on and letting it warm up for a while with no source connected.  But....I've been wondering whether the improvement I perceive after 10 minutes (or so) of playing music is due to the signal now flowing through the amp, or now flowing through the headphones?  Maybe it's the HP's warming up?  Not temperature-wise obviously, but perhaps the diaphragms becoming a little more limber or flexible after playing for a bit...


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

bcowen said:


> If it's only your imagination, then great imaginations imagine alike.    I do the same thing by turning it on and letting it warm up for a while with no source connected.  But....I've been wondering whether the improvement I perceive after 10 minutes (or so) of playing music is due to the signal now flowing through the amp, or now flowing through the headphones?  Maybe it's the HP's warming up?  Not temperature-wise obviously, but perhaps the diaphragms becoming a little more limber or flexible after playing for a bit...


I agree with this.  I do believe the headphones, have a warmup period as well.  I usually start with volume kind of higher than normal and back off, once they wake up, and get louder.


----------



## tafens

Wes S said:


> I always play music, while my Lyr 3 is on, with volume at listening level.  I have left it on once, with no music, for half a day, and came back to a microphonic tube.  The tube was not microphonic at all before that.  I don't know if not having music flowing and volume up, had anything to do with it, but I am not trying it again.  The tube was a KenRad black glass, and cost a lot.



I’m sorry to hear that, especially with an expensive tube like that. 

I haven’t gotten into the more expensive tubes yet so I haven’t worried much about microphonics or burning away tube hours, but I have left it on sometimes for hours (to keep it warm for more listening later), fully connected and volume up and thankfully nothing like that has happened. Not yet, anyway..


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> If it's only your imagination, then great imaginations imagine alike.    I do the same thing by turning it on and letting it warm up for a while with no source connected.  But....I've been wondering whether the improvement I perceive after 10 minutes (or so) of playing music is due to the signal now flowing through the amp, or now flowing through the headphones?  Maybe it's the HP's warming up?  Not temperature-wise obviously, but perhaps the diaphragms becoming a little more limber or flexible after playing for a bit...



The headphones loosening up seems rather plausible, hadn’t really thought about that, as I was more focusing on the tube side of things


----------



## porchwizard

Wes S said:


> I agree with this.  I do believe the headphones, have a warmup period as well.  I usually start with volume kind of higher than normal and back off, once they wake up, and get louder.


The thing between the headphones is also very flexible and highly adaptive.


----------



## bcowen

porchwizard said:


> The thing between the headphones is also very flexible and highly adaptive.



The vacuum in my thing is pretty consistent.    But a good point and likely a factor as well.


----------



## tompaz909

Anyone have a phono preamp module that they're wanting to sell?


----------



## tafens

porchwizard said:


> The thing between the headphones is also very flexible and highly adaptive.



So, some further experimentations suggests that indeed the auditory receptacles or the great vacuum between them is what requires conditioning..


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> So, some further experimentations suggests that indeed the auditory receptacles or the great vacuum between them is what requires conditioning..



LOL!  As we all know, sound waves don't travel through a vacuum, so perhaps the improvement is caused by some leaking out?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 19, 2019)

*Ripper's Audiophile tip #25841: * Tubes and headphones reach optimal sonic performance much quicker if the listener has 2 shots of a high quality Tequila 10 minutes before a listening session.

*Ripper's Audiophile tip #25842: *Tube burn-in times are cut in 1/2 if you play Rick Astley 'Never Gonna Give You Up' in a non-stop loop.  (Ex:  Foton tube w/ Rick = 50 hours.  W/o Rick = 100 hours)

Glad to be of service.


----------



## bcowen

This is a far more effective warm-up (and new tube breaker-inner) track....without resorting to Manson.


----------



## Ripper2860

The objective is to BREAK-IN ones tubes not BREAK them!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The objective is to BREAK-IN ones tubes not BREAK them!!



Who made up that dumb rule?  If you never break anything, how do you ever justify getting anything new?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The objective is to BREAK-IN ones tubes not BREAK them!!



When I first got the Tektons, they were bad.  Really bad.  Piercing, screechy treble and bass that sounded like they rolled off at about 150 Hz.  Gave 'em 24 hours of this, and they became an entirely different speaker.  Now, with the Jota pumping all 22 watts she's got to give, I'm pretty sure I can do structural damage to the house.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> *Ripper's Audiophile tip #25841: * Tubes and headphones reach optimal sonic performance much quicker if the listener has 2 shots of a high quality Tequila 10 minutes before a listening session.
> 
> *Ripper's Audiophile tip #25842: *Tube burn-in times are cut in 1/2 if you play Rick Astley 'Never Gonna Give You Up' in a non-stop loop.  (Ex:  Foton tube w/ Rick = 50 hours.  W/o Rick = 100 hours)
> 
> Glad to be of service.


What about the previous 25,840 tips?!  Where do I find them?  I feel cheated


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 19, 2019)

Zachik said:


> What about the previous 25,840 tips?! Where do I find them? I feel cheated



They are available as part of my monthly e-mail newsletter subscription.  For only $29.95 per month you get valuable insight and opinions on world events, insider trading info., Keto friendly receipes, and helpful Audiophile tips to make your audio journey more fulfilling and enjoyable.  Act now and you'll get an adorable manatee plush-toy for free!!  (You pay only shipping and handling). **

 


** 1-year minimum subscription required.

*Limited Time Special Offer*:  Pre-pay for a 3-year subscription and you'll also get an autographed naughty pic of @bcowen 's wife!!


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> They are available as part of my monthly e-mail newsletter subscription. For only $29.95 per month you get valuable insight and opinions on world events, insider trading info., Keto friendly receipes, and helpful Audiophile tips to make your audio journey more fulfilling and enjoyable. Act now and you'll get an adorable manatee plush-toy for free!! (You pay only shipping and handling). **


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> *Limited Time Special Offer*:  Pre-pay for a 3-year subscription and you'll also get an autographed naughty pic of @bcowen 's wife!!



I'll keep an eye out for my royalty check.

Probably not going to go stand by the mailbox waiting on it though.....


----------



## tafens

Just had a strange experience.. sound on the right channel on my Lyr3MB was distorted, as if the music had been converted to too low a sample rate/bit depth.
Tried different headphones, restarted the music player, then the computer and still the same. Turned off the Lyr and slowly and painfully counted to 30 to let all residual electrical charge drain.
Turned it back on and the distortion was thankfully gone and everything back to normal! 
Must have been the multibit card booting askew or something. Anyway, thought I'd write about it in case anyone experienced anything similar.

Apparently, in this modern day and age it's not just your computer that needs to be rebooted at times 
Or, in the words of The IT Crowd; "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"


----------



## Wes S

tafens said:


> Just had a strange experience.. sound on the right channel on my Lyr3MB was distorted, as if the music had been converted to too low a sample rate/bit depth.
> Tried different headphones, restarted the music player, then the computer and still the same. Turned off the Lyr and slowly and painfully counted to 30 to let all residual electrical charge drain.
> Turned it back on and the distortion was thankfully gone and everything back to normal!
> Must have been the multibit card booting askew or something. Anyway, thought I'd write about it in case anyone experienced anything similar.
> ...


I have heard the same thing, with my Mimby, and a quick power cycle did the trick.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Just had a strange experience.. sound on the right channel on my Lyr3MB was distorted, as if the music had been converted to too low a sample rate/bit depth.
> Tried different headphones, restarted the music player, then the computer and still the same. Turned off the Lyr and slowly and painfully counted to 30 to let all residual electrical charge drain.
> Turned it back on and the distortion was thankfully gone and everything back to normal!
> Must have been the multibit card booting askew or something. Anyway, thought I'd write about it in case anyone experienced anything similar.
> ...



Thanks for sharing. Haven't run into that myself (yet) but an occasional reboot need is entirely plausible.  I have to reboot my iPhone every couple weeks or it starts acting weirdly.  It's a company phone and IT tells me repeatedly the strange behavior is almost certainly user error.   ITiots.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wes S said:


> I have heard the same thing, with my Mimby, and a quick power cycle did the trick.



Ditto here.  It's only happened 2-3 times for me in the last 2 years I've owned Mimby.  Rare, but it does happen.


----------



## earnmyturns

tafens said:


> Just had a strange experience.. sound on the right channel on my Lyr3MB was distorted, as if the music had been converted to too low a sample rate/bit depth.
> Tried different headphones, restarted the music player, then the computer and still the same. Turned off the Lyr and slowly and painfully counted to 30 to let all residual electrical charge drain.
> Turned it back on and the distortion was thankfully gone and everything back to normal!
> Must have been the multibit card booting askew or something. Anyway, thought I'd write about it in case anyone experienced anything similar.
> ...


I used to own a Mimby that would do that kind of thing sometimes when the USB source was off/disconnected. I started powering it down briefly while changing sources/wiring. My Yggy is always on connected to a fixed source, but when I've had to do source changes from time to time, I've powered down, switched the wires, and powered it back up right away. Never any issues.


----------



## tafens

earnmyturns said:


> I used to own a Mimby that would do that kind of thing sometimes when the USB source was off/disconnected. I started powering it down briefly while changing sources/wiring. My Yggy is always on connected to a fixed source, but when I've had to do source changes from time to time, I've powered down, switched the wires, and powered it back up right away. Never any issues.



I usually have the Lyr3 on warmup disconnected from the source for an hour or so. Only when it’s time to listen I bring out my laptop and connect it up. Perhaps a small misfeature in the firmware then, that may show itself if sitting disconnected for some time. Only rarely though, as it’s never happened before over the many months I’ve had it, and using it almost daily


----------



## Wes S

earnmyturns said:


> I used to own a Mimby that would do that kind of thing sometimes when the USB source was off/disconnected. I started powering it down briefly while changing sources/wiring. My Yggy is always on connected to a fixed source, but when I've had to do source changes from time to time, I've powered down, switched the wires, and powered it back up right away. Never any issues.


Mine started doing it, when I added the Eitr to the chain.  I have read the Eitr, is super sensitive, as stated by the creator of the device.  For instance every now and then, I can turn of the lights, on my ceiling fan, and the Eitr will click, which I think in turn was affecting the Mimby.  Now that I am using the Gumby, with the Eitr, every now and then, I hear a click from the Eitr, but the Gumby never has an issue.  I am thinking the Gumby, has more parts to shield it from the problem?  Anyways, it is solved with a power cycle, but sure was scary the first time I heard it.


----------



## Yviena (Jun 7, 2019)

Hmm I actually don't know what to think anymore, I let a friend that has his own mastering.studio listen to my HD800 with the lyr 3 using his own tracks, and he actually said that the THX 789 that I also own translate his mixes better.
I don't really understand what he said after something about the loss of impulse response information leading to a greater sense of depth.on the lyr.
Actually to be honest I do find that the lyr 3 does blend the sound somewhat compared to the THX.


----------



## Wes S

Yviena said:


> Hmm I actually don't know what to think anymore, I let a friend that has his own mastering.studio listen to my HD800 with the lyr 3 using his own tracks, and he actually said that the THX 789 that I also own translate his mixes better.
> I don't really understand what he said after something about the loss of impulse response information leading to a greater sense of depth.on the lyr.
> Actually to be honest I do find that the lyr 3 does blend the sound somewhat compared to the THX.


Lots of variables, that can affect this outcome.  Tubes, dac, synergy. . .I have heard time and time again, that the HD800 is picking with amp pairings.


----------



## tafens

Yviena said:


> Hmm I actually don't know what to think anymore, I let a friend that has his own mastering.studio listen to my HD800 with the lyr 3 using his own tracks, and he actually said that the THX 789 that I also own translate his mixes better.
> I don't really understand what he said after something about the loss of impulse response information leading to a greater sense of depth.on the lyr.
> Actually to be honest I do find that the lyr 3 does blend the sound somewhat compared to the THX.



What tube was it in the Lyr3? In my (limited, but still) experience, the sound can change quite a bit with the tube. From exciting and engaging to woefully flat and boring..


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2019)

tafens said:


> What tube was it in the Lyr3? In my (limited, but still) experience, the sound can change quite a bit with the tube. From exciting and engaging to woefully flat and boring..


Very true about the tube, and the DAC being used as well.  My Lyr 3, went from being fun with the Mimby, to being hauntingly real sounding with the Gumby.


----------



## tafens

Wes S said:


> Very true about the tube, and the DAC being used as well.  My Lyr 3, went from being fun with the Mimby, to being hauntingly real sounding with the Gumby.



Ah, sounds like the Gumby is a hot candidate as the next step up in my upgrade path.. at least when I can persuade my wallet 

Are they stackable?


----------



## Zachik

tafens said:


> Ah, sounds like the Gumby is a hot candidate as the next step up in my upgrade path.. at least when I can persuade my wallet
> 
> Are they stackable?


Define stackable... The Gumby has no tubes, so you can definitely stack the Lyr 3 on top of it, but the Gumby is much larger.


----------



## Yviena

Tube used was genuine MELZ 1578 it sounds wonderful on songs with female vocals, and not a lot of stuff going on but yeah falls a bit short on busy passages, and rock/hybrid music,, as for the DAC it was a soekris 1541 with custom filters.


----------



## Yviena

Wes S said:


> Lots of variables, that can affect this outcome.  Tubes, dac, synergy. . .I have heard time and time again, that the HD800 is picking with amp pairings.


I think the only problem with HD800 is the 6khz spike, and the resonance of the ear cups/plastic etc. I kinda want to get the new stax/amp for myself, I have the cash for it but, then I get the silent judging stares from my family/friends...


----------



## Wes S

tafens said:


> Ah, sounds like the Gumby is a hot candidate as the next step up in my upgrade path.. at least when I can persuade my wallet
> 
> Are they stackable?



I have my Liquid Platinum on top of my Gumby, and my Lyr 3 next to them.  However the Lyr 3, fits perfectly on top of the Gumby.


----------



## tafens

Yviena said:


> Tube used was genuine MELZ 1578 it sounds wonderful on songs with female vocals, and not a lot of stuff going on but yeah falls a bit short on busy passages, and rock/hybrid music,, as for the DAC it was a soekris 1541 with custom filters.



I have a MELZ 1578 (used, but the real deal as far as I can tell), that I got off of eBay. It sounds great in just about every way, but it is also incredibly soft sounding to my ears. If yours is as mine, I’m thinking that could have something to do with the comment about the impulse response. I feel the Tung-Sol reissue as being more energetic and immersive for example.

How would you say the THX789 compares to the Lyr3 otherwise?


----------



## Wes S

tafens said:


> I have a MELZ 1578 (used, but the real deal as far as I can tell), that I got off of eBay. It sounds great in just about every way, but it is also incredibly soft sounding to my ears. If yours is as mine, I’m thinking that could have something to do with the comment about the impulse response. I feel the Tung-Sol reissue as being more energetic and immersive for example.
> 
> How would you say the THX789 compares to the Lyr3 otherwise?


I have heard that the melz is warm or soft in the mids, and that is why I have not tried it in the Lyr 3, as I feel that was not playing to the strengths of the amp.  Roll a Westinghouse d getter in there, and let your engineering buddy listen then.  I bet he changes his mind.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Roll a Westinghouse d getter in there, and let your engineering buddy listen then.



Or a pre-'57 Foton 6N8S.


----------



## Freeflap

Hi All,
Been a while. Did you ever bid on ebay for something and unexpectedly win the item? Well, that happened to me. I won and purchased a used Audio-gd 29.28. It arrived this week in excellent condition. I currently listen to a lyr3 with a westinghouse dgetter, on my ether flows and Audeze lcd2. I haven't had much time with the audio-gd but can give some early impressions: 
1. this thing is a beast. twice the size of my lyr3 and double the weight. looks and feels very well made. Love that it has multiple input options. 
2. sound: excellent sound stage. Deep bass. Midrange is a little veiled compared to the lyr3. Maybe its the tube magic. or the multbit dac vs a traditional delta sigma. Not sure. 

more thoughts to follow after i put some serious time into the new toy. 
thx


----------



## Deaj

bcowen said:


> Or a pre-'57 Foton 6N8S.



The ribbed anode Foton 6N8S really does sound great in the Lyr 3, and they may be found for reasonable money. I grabbed several NOS for less than $8 each shipped. These seem to be the current best 'bang for the buck' 6SN7 variant.


----------



## ksorota

The only thing holding me back from ordering a Lyr 3 is the lack of a black finish... @Jason Stoddard any idea when I should send payment?!?


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> The only thing holding me back from ordering a Lyr 3 is the lack of a black finish... @Jason Stoddard any idea when I should send payment?!?



Why wait?


----------



## showme99 (Jun 27, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Why wait?


I hope that's high temperature paint, because Schiit amps run very hot. I'm pretty sure I can fry an egg on my Jotunheim . I can only imagine how much hotter a tube amp would be.


----------



## bcowen

showme99 said:


> I hope that's high temperature paint, because Schiit amps run very hot. I'm pretty sure I can fry an egg on my Jotunheim . I can only imagine how much hotter a tube amp would be.



LOL!  Good point.  Maybe better use this instead.  If _any_ Schiit gets hotter than 2k degrees F, probably time to look for a new hobby.


----------



## porchwizard

showme99 said:


> I hope that's high temperature paint, because Schiit amps run very hot. I'm pretty sure I can fry an egg on my Jotunheim . I can only imagine how much hotter a tube amp would be.


The Lyr 3 Continuity(tm) output stage does generate some heat. It's a generalization but dark bodies emit heat better than light or reflective bodies.  So painting the Lyr 3 black could be a (small) thermal improvement. I would also note that the tube sits outside the case. It would probably not be recommended to paint the tube. YMMV.


----------



## tafens

porchwizard said:


> The Lyr 3 Continuity(tm) output stage does generate some heat. It's a generalization but dark bodies emit heat better than light or reflective bodies.  So painting the Lyr 3 black could be a (small) thermal improvement. I would also note that the tube sits outside the case. It would probably not be recommended to paint the tube. YMMV.



Hmm.. black glass tubes are supposed to sound better, no? I just had a great idea, what if I could make my own black glass with some old crap tubes and a can of black? Maybe they will sound better, too! Until they overheat and explode, anyways..


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Hmm.. black glass tubes are supposed to sound better, no? I just had a great idea, what if I could make my own black glass with some old crap tubes and a can of black? Maybe they will sound better, too! Until they overheat and explode, anyways..




Telefunken already beat you to the punch.  Of course with the prices involved, a can of black spray paint is looking mighty attractive.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1471#post-15024845


----------



## tafens

The Lyr3 has auto bias, right?

Will that compensate for slightly different (unmatched) tube sections? Or how does it work?


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone tried this amp with the ADX-5000?
Impressions?

I'm currently using a Violectric V100 as reference.


----------



## milkplus

Has anyone paired the Lyr 3 with a Mytek Brooklyn? I currently have a Brooklyn hooked up to a Lyr 2 and think it sounds great, but interested in seeing whether the upgrade would be worth it (especially considering I have a decent bead on a used model)


----------



## tafens

Just ordered the Bifrost2 to go with (under) my Lyr3.. 
Can't wait for it to arrive


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats!  I wont be too far behind you.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Just ordered the Bifrost2 to go with (under) my Lyr3..
> Can't wait for it to arrive



OK, I'm jealous.  If I could get @Ripper2860 to pay me for this tester I've never sent him, I'd be in good shape.  

Be very interested in your opinion once you get it, especially if you could compare it to your Modi MB (which is what I'm currently using, although mine is the Modi 2).  You have "Lyr3MB" in your sig...does that mean you have the internal multibit card in the Lyr 3 as well?


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Congrats!  I wont be too far behind you.



Thanks, odds are you’ll be first though. Once the order is processed and sent it out it’ll have to cross the big pond, be held by customs, handed over to local shipping, and then, finally and hopefully, be picked up by me (with a big smile) at the delivery point.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> OK, I'm jealous.  If I could get @Ripper2860 to pay me for this tester I've never sent him, I'd be in good shape.



I realise saying this will put my possible future membership in *W*orldwide *H*oarders *O*f *R*are *E*lectronics (as founded by @Ripper2860) at risk, but: you could probably sell a few tubes from your vast stash to raise the funds  



bcowen said:


> Be very interested in your opinion once you get it, especially if you could compare it to your Modi MB (which is what I'm currently using, although mine is the Modi 2).  You have "Lyr3MB" in your sig...does that mean you have the internal multibit card in the Lyr 3 as well?



Yep, I have the internal multibit card and it will be thoroughly interesting to compare it against the Bifrost. I’ll post impressions as soon as I have them


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> I realise saying this will put my possible future membership in *W*orldwide *H*oarders *O*f *R*are *E*lectronics (as founded by @Ripper2860) at risk, but: you could probably sell a few tubes from your vast stash to raise the funds



What?!?  *Sell* my tubes?  This is the Hotel California for tubes -- they can check in any time they like, but they can never leave.  



tafens said:


> Yep, I have the internal multibit card and it will be thoroughly interesting to compare it against the Bifrost. I’ll post impressions as soon as I have them



Awesome.  Thanks!!


----------



## Zachik

tafens said:


> you could probably sell a few tubes from your vast stash to raise the funds


Bill can keep his vast collection of GE tubes to himself, thank you very much... 



bcowen said:


> This is the Hotel California for tubes


More like:







"GE Tubes check in... but they don't check out"


----------



## Shane D

I am reading this whole thread and am on page 46.
However, my impatience is getting the best of me:
Will this amp do anything special for very efficient headphones? Think 32 Ohm.

I have been very curious about tube amps but when I starting researching them (OTL), I kept reading that they were a poor mix with anything under 200 Ohms.

I then bought a hybrid tube amp, the Loxjie P20. I also bought Russian tubes. The sound improved, but in the end it did nothing for me. I know that it's a cheapie, but still.

So, will this amp do anything for my Beyer T5p.2's, Grado GH2's and Meze 99 Classic's?

Lastly, I recently bought the LCX from MassDrop. Some have called it "tubey". Would the tubes users agree with that description? I love its sound.

Thanks!

Shane D


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 4, 2019)

I've had a Lyr 3 for quite some time and cyrrently use it with Hifiman Anada planar HPs which are 16 ohm.  They present absolutely no problem for the Lyr 3 to drive and sound WONDERFUL!!  I've used Lyr 3 with Fostex TRPs, Hifiman Ananda, Hifiman Sundara, Hifiman HE400S, Audio Technica ATH-M50, Massdrop HD6XX (Senn. HD650 -- 300 ohm), and even multiple IEMs with no issues whatsoever.  I would not be deterred by the prospect of driving low impedance cans.  

The Lyr 3 is not OTL, btw -- it is a hypbrid, but I must say that the Schiit Valhalla OTL amp also drives my low impedance Anandas, as well as high impedance HD6XX cans very nicely.  The key with low impedance on the Schiit OTL amp is HP efficiency.  If the low impedance cans are very efficient, the reduced output is not really a factor -- unless you like your music insanely loud!!


*** Low impedance and efficiency are not synonymous.  One can have low impedance / low efficiency HPs.  Sensitivity is key -- how loud a HP can reproduce sound at a given amp output.  Low impedance does not automatically mean a more efficient/higher sensitivity HP.


----------



## Shane D (Oct 4, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I've had a Lyr 3 for quite some time and cyrrently use it with Hifiman Anada planar HPs which are 16 ohm.  They present absolutely no problem for the Lyr 3 to drive and sound WONDERFUL!!  I've used Lyr 3 with Fostex TRPs, Hifiman Ananda, Hifiman Sundara, Hifiman HE400S, Audio Technica ATH-M50, Massdrop HD6XX (Senn. HD650 -- 300 ohm), and even multiple IEMs with no issues whatsoever.  I would not be deterred by the prospect of driving low impedance cans.
> 
> The Lyr 3 is not OTL, btw -- it is a hypbrid, but I must say that the Schiit Valhalla OTL amp also drives my low impedance Anandas, as well as high impedance HD6XX cans very nicely.  The key with low impedance on the Schiit OTL amp is HP efficiency.  If the low impedance cans are very efficient, the reduced output is not really a factor -- unless you like your music insanely loud!!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply! I like change and variety. In the last 5 years I have gone through 10 to 12 sets of handphones, six different amps, three different DAP's and I am on my first stand alone DAC. I rarely go a single week without buying new music. I am an old guy that could not imagine spending the rest of my life listening to 70's music over and over and over.

I am always looking for something different. The Liquid Carbon X definitely sounds very different from my Burson Fun-Classic.

I am wondering if a hybrid tube amp would bring anything new to the party? I have already tried a Loxjie P20 hybrid tube and it was underwhelming, to say the least. Just sounded like a cheap amp, nothing special.
Right now I am listening to an open box Liquid Spark and it is VERY impressive. Cheap stuff can be great, depends on the product.

So, would a Lyr 3 give me a different sound/perspective from my SS amps? I do not listen loud.

Thanks again for the reply.

Shane D

P.S.: Have you ever heard the LCX?


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> So, would a Lyr 3 give me a different sound/perspective from my SS amps? I do not listen loud.



In a word, yes.  @Ripper2860 's comments above are spot on -- impedance and sensitivity are two different things. That said, look at what the Lyr 3 does:





The lower the impedance, the higher the output power. So into 32 ohm impedance 'phones, it's putting out over 6 watts per channel. We're talking _watts_ here, not milliwatts, so even a very low sensitivity 'phone is going to play at volumes that would probably be downright painful if cranked to the max at that impedance.

As far as tubes versus solid state, I'm the wrong person to comment on that as I'm a certified tube addict and overly opinionated on the subject.  .


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> In a word, yes.  @Ripper2860 's comments above are spot on -- impedance and sensitivity are two different things. That said, look at what the Lyr 3 does:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Way more power than I would ever need as I don't listen loud and my 'phones are very efficient.

Just looking for a different sound. I tried to dip my toe into the "tube hybrid" world with the Loxjie P20 and was very disappointed. The P20 with Russian tubes cost me about $175.00. 
The Lyr 3, with a few tubes, will run  me about $700.00 to $750.00, landed (Canada).

Worth it for a fresh sound. A LOT of money for a subtle difference  from SS.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> Way more power than I would ever need as I don't listen loud and my 'phones are very efficient.
> 
> Just looking for a different sound. I tried to dip my toe into the "tube hybrid" world with the Loxjie P20 and was very disappointed. The P20 with Russian tubes cost me about $175.00.
> The Lyr 3, with a few tubes, will run  me about $700.00 to $750.00, landed (Canada).
> ...



The cheap Chinese amps are just that.  'Nuff said.  If you want to get a _good_ hybrid amp to test the tube waters, you might consider the Vali 2. It puts out a full watt into 32 ohms, and if your phones are very sensitive (efficiency is used interchangeably a lot, but it's a different thing) that will be plenty of power. Big difference in price from the Lyr 3, but don't let the Vali 2's much lower price dissuade you - it's a killer amp in its own right.


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> The cheap Chinese amps are just that.  'Nuff said.  If you want to get a _good_ hybrid amp to test the tube waters, you might consider the Vali 2. It puts out a full watt into 32 ohms, and if your phones are very sensitive (efficiency is used interchangeably a lot, but it's a different thing) that will be plenty of power. Big difference in price from the Lyr 3, but don't let the Vali 2's much lower price dissuade you - it's a killer amp in its own right.



Really? I saw a few reviews that said it wasn't very tubey at all. At least not with the stock tube.
I was checking it out earlier and I was thinking to myself that for that price, would it be similar to the P20?


Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> Really? I saw a few reviews that said it wasn't very tubey at all. At least not with the stock tube.
> I was checking it out earlier and I was thinking to myself that for that price, would it be similar to the P20?
> 
> 
> Shane D



With the stock tube, I'd have to agree it's not very "tubey."  Neither is the Lyr 3 with the stock tube. A bit better with the optional Tung Sol.  If you want tubey with the Vali 2, pop in a Mullard ECC88 or a Holland-made Amperex 6DJ8.  You'll be tubulated.   

I haven't heard the P20 so can't offer you any kind of comparison.  I _have_ heard a Little Dot and a Nobsound (both low price Chinese amps), and I'll just say that the Vali 2 is in another league altogether. As you yourself said above, cheap stuff can be great.  I'd only amend that to say_ inexpensive_ stuff can be great, you just have to find the right inexpensive stuff.


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> With the stock tube, I'd have to agree it's not very "tubey."  Neither is the Lyr 3 with the stock tube. A bit better with the optional Tung Sol.  If you want tubey with the Vali 2, pop in a Mullard ECC88 or a Holland-made Amperex 6DJ8.  You'll be tubulated.
> 
> I haven't heard the P20 so can't offer you any kind of comparison.  I _have_ heard a Little Dot and a Nobsound (both low price Chinese amps), and I'll just say that the Vali 2 is in another league altogether. As you yourself said above, cheap stuff can be great.  I'd only amend that to say_ inexpensive_ stuff can be great, you just have to find the right inexpensive stuff.



So, would you go as far as to say that it is as good as the Lyr 3, but just with less power? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am really curious. If that was the case, I would jump right on that. I don't _need_ the extra power, although it is nice to have. Just like with a car.

I don't need a built in DAC as I am very happy with my SMSL SU-8.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> Really? I saw a few reviews that said it wasn't very tubey at all. At least not with the stock tube.
> I was checking it out earlier and I was thinking to myself that for that price, would it be similar to the P20?
> 
> 
> Shane D



One other thing: you noted a Russian tube in conjunction with the P20. Russian tubes IME are the least tubey sounding tubes around. Not that there aren't really good ones out there (in fact, a Russian made Foton 6N8S is one of my favorites), just that most don't bring what's considered a tubey kind of sound to the forefront. You'll get more tubey-ness with many of the NOS European or US made tubes...


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> One other thing: you noted a Russian tube in conjunction with the P20. Russian tubes IME are the least tubey sounding tubes around. Not that there aren't really good ones out there (in fact, a Russian made Foton 6N8S is one of my favorites), just that most don't bring what's considered a tubey kind of sound to the forefront. You'll get more tubey-ness with many of the NOS European or US made tubes...



That was certainly the case with the P20. It did open up the amp and gave it some clarity. But nothing past that. I was not going to spend more money on tubes for a cheap amp hoping that things will change.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> So, would you go as far as to say that it is as good as the Lyr 3, but just with less power? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am really curious. If that was the case, I would jump right on that. I don't _need_ the extra power, although it is nice to have. Just like with a car.
> 
> I don't need a built in DAC as I am very happy with my SMSL SU-8.
> 
> Shane D



No, the Lyr 3 is not just a balls-ier version of the Vali 2. It's better in a lot of areas beyond just the power output. If the cost is not an issue, go for the Lyr 3 -- no question. The Vali 2 just gets you into a nice sounding tube hybrid for very little cost if you're just wanting to experiment.


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> No, the Lyr 3 is not just a balls-ier version of the Vali 2. It's better in a lot of areas beyond just the power output. If the cost is not an issue, go for the Lyr 3 -- no question. The Vali 2 just gets you into a nice sounding tube hybrid for very little cost if you're just wanting to experiment.



Thanks for the clarification.
Cost is always an issue, but you gotta pay to play.

Well I am up to about page 104 in this thread. And then there is another long thread on the site that is not to named.

I am surprised about the lack of reviews for this amp. It has been out for a year and a half.

Shane D


----------



## 441879 (Oct 6, 2019)

Shane D said:


> Way more power than I would ever need as I don't listen loud and my 'phones are very efficient.
> 
> Just looking for a different sound. I tried to dip my toe into the "tube hybrid" world with the Loxjie P20 and was very disappointed. The P20 with Russian tubes cost me about $175.00.
> The Lyr 3, with a few tubes, will run  me about $700.00 to $750.00, landed (Canada).
> ...



A good tube amp generally shouldn’t sound very tubey. The difference should be pretty subtle, showing up as perhaps a little more warmth, better sound stage, smoother treble. It shouldn’t be super obvious.

The Lyr itself is a remarkably euphonic amplifier. There is some evidence that the 6SN7 tube is part of the reason, but probably not the whole reason. There is a gentleman on Head-Fi who owns both the Lyr3 and the new Asgard 3 which has essentially the same SS amplifier section, differing mostly in having a little less power and solid state gain. His communication to me is the Lyr3 with stock tubes sounds better. His comments below.

“I don't have time to do a full review on this right now, but overall I don't think it's the best pairing with the AFC. The amp has a lot of veil to the upper mids and treble that removes a lot of detail and impact. The Lyr 3 pushes the mids forward and retains all that detail with A/B testing. It's the same from Modi 3 or Bifrost 2. Also there is this hazy greyness to the sound that overall makes everything seem less resolving. I'm not sure what's causing it. The amp may be underpowered or it's doing something weird to the AFC. The Lyr 3 is a much better pairing on all levels.

On the plus side the sound stage is about as wide as Lyr 3, wider than the Jotunheim. I'm not sure how, but this amp does sound great with dynamics. I've tested the HD6XX the most so far and it doesn't have as notable of an issue with mids. Overall this good be a good pairing with the Focal headphones to take the edge off transients and boost he bottom end. But with the AFC I kept turning up the volume to try to get the treble back and ended up being fatiguing.”


----------



## Shane D

will f said:


> A good tube amp generally shouldn’t sound very tubey. The difference should be pretty subtle, showing up as perhaps a little more warmth, better sound stage, smoother treble. It shouldn’t be super obvious.
> 
> The Lyr itself is a remarkably euphonic amplifier. There is some evidence that the 6SN7 tube is part of the reason, but probably not the whole reason. There is a gentleman on Head-Fi who owns both the Lyr3 and the new Asgard 3 which has essentially the same SS amplifier section, differing mostly in having a little less power and solid state gain. His communication to me is the Lyr3 with stock tubes sounds better. His comments below.
> 
> ...




I do not have any hard to drive headphones and never will. I bought the HD6XX's, but sold them a few months later. What do you think of the Elex and Lyr 3 pairing? I want to get a set of Elex's in the next several months.

So, it won't be a big change compared to SS amps, just a subtle difference? That doesn't sound like a worthwhile $750.00 purchase.

Have to keep reading.

Shane D


----------



## 441879 (Oct 6, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I do not have any hard to drive headphones and never will. I bought the HD6XX's, but sold them a few months later. What do you think of the Elex and Lyr 3 pairing? I want to get a set of Elex's in the next several months.
> 
> So, it won't be a big change compared to SS amps, just a subtle difference? That doesn't sound like a worthwhile $750.00 purchase.
> 
> ...



Assuming your amp has enough power for the headphones, the differences are pretty subtle, though they are there. In order of importance to sound, I see it this way: headphones >> amplifier > DAC.  That said, I have heard some weird effects between specific headphones and amps that really shouldn’t be there if power and distortion were all that mattered. I haven’t heard any headphones that didn’t sound better with the Lyr3 than with my Magni3 or my Q5, so there is that. I’m currently looking at buying a top end SS amp to see if I can hear an improvement though so we’ll see.

re the Elex + Lyr3: I really like it. The Elex doesn’t need the power of the Lyr3, but the soundstage is absolutely amazing (to my ears) and the micro dynamics are fully represented. I would recommend a cooler sounding tube with this combo given the mid bass boost of the Elex, but it sounds good with any decent tube.


----------



## XERO1 (Oct 6, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I do not have any hard to drive headphones and never will. I bought the HD6XX's, but sold them a few months later. What do you think of the Elex and Lyr 3 pairing? I want to get a set of Elex's in the next several months.
> 
> So, it won't be a big change compared to SS amps, just a subtle difference? That doesn't sound like a worthwhile $750.00 purchase.
> 
> ...


I currently own an Asgard 3 and have heard the Lyr 3. I also own a Lyr 2, and at one point I owned a Asgard 2.

When I directly compared the Asgard 2 and the Lyr 2 against each other, they sounded very similar but the Lyr 2 definitely pulled ahead when it came to soundstage size and vocal reproduction. I also had the LISST 'tubes' for the Lyr 2, and when I used the LISST's and compared it again with the Asgard 2, they sounded nearly identical. So the tubes seemed to be primarily responsible for the increase in soundstage and vocal quality that made the Lyr 2 sound a little better to my ear than the Asgard 2.

But the Asgard 2 was by no means outclassed by the Lyr 2. The Lyr 2 just had a little more 'tangibility' to its sound compared to the Asgard 2.

And the same is the case with the Asgard 3 and Lyr 3. On its own, the Asgard 3 sounds fantastic, but when I listened to the Lyr 3, I heard the _exact_ same improvements over the Asgard 3 that I heard between the Asgard 2 and Lyr 2. They were relatively subtle, nothing 'night and day', but they were definitely there. To put it in numbers, I'd say the Asgard was about 90% as good as the Lyr.

Now if that last 10% is worth another $300, that's for you to decide.


----------



## Shane D

will f said:


> Assuming your amp has enough power for the headphones, the differences are pretty subtle, though they are there. In order of importance to sound, I see it this way: headphones >> amplifier > DAC.  That said, I have heard some weird effects between specific headphones and amps that really shouldn’t be there if power and distortion were all that mattered. I haven’t heard any headphones that didn’t sound better with the Lyr3 than with my Magni3 or my Q5, so there is that. I’m currently looking at buying a top end SS amp to see if I can hear an improvement though so we’ll see.



Just to pester, how do you like your Elex with the Lyr 3?

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

XERO1 said:


> I currently own an Asgard 3 and have heard the Lyr 3. I also own a Lyr 2, and at one point I owned a Asgard 2.
> 
> When I directly compared the Asgard 2 and the Lyr 2 against each other, they sounded very similar but the Lyr 2 definitely pulled ahead when it came to soundstage size and vocal reproduction. I also had the LISST 'tubes' for the Lyr 2, and when I used the LISST's and compared it again with the Asgard 2, they sounded nearly identical. So the tubes seemed to be primarily responsible for the increase in soundstage and vocal quality that made the Lyr 2 sound a little better to my ear than the Asgard 2.
> 
> ...



I thought about that $200.00 to $500.00. $200.00 is a great price, but not if you're underwhelmed. I wonder if the Lyr 3 would be end game for me. I would like to get my amp collection down to two: one super clean/clear balanced (THX 877 from Monoprice) and one really "fun" amp. I currently love my Burson Fun-Classic and I like my Liquid Carbon X.

Shane D


----------



## 441879

Shane D said:


> Just to pester, how do you like your Elex with the Lyr 3?
> 
> Shane D



re the Elex + Lyr3: I really like it. The Elex doesn’t need the power of the Lyr3, but the soundstage is absolutely amazing (to my ears) and the micro dynamics are fully represented. I would recommend a cooler sounding tube with this combo given the mid bass boost of the Elex, but it sounds good with any decent tube.


----------



## Shane D

will f said:


> re the Elex + Lyr3: I really like it. The Elex doesn’t need the power of the Lyr3, but the soundstage is absolutely amazing (to my ears) and the micro dynamics are fully represented. I would recommend a cooler sounding tube with this combo given the mid bass boost of the Elex, but it sounds good with any decent tube.



That's what I like to hear. For me, my favourites are the Beyer T5P.2's and Grado GH2's. Both are only 32 Ohm.

Shane D


----------



## 441879 (Oct 6, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I thought about that $200.00 to $500.00. $200.00 is a great price, but not if you're underwhelmed. I wonder if the Lyr 3 would be end game for me. I would like to get my amp collection down to two: one super clean/clear balanced (THX 877 from Monoprice) and one really "fun" amp. I currently love my Burson Fun-Classic and I like my Liquid Carbon X.
> 
> Shane D



I bought my Lyr3 thinking it would be my end game amp and so far I haven’t heard anything as good. It’s a good enough amp that it is always a pleasure to switch back to it after listening to my headphones through some other amp. I’m like you though- I want to pick up a really good SS amp just so I can have both.

I’m also thinking I need a pair of ZMF headphones with a ZMF amp so I can see how that works too.

This is a horrible hobby, really.


----------



## Shane D

will f said:


> I bought my Lyr3 thinking it would be my end game amp and so far I haven’t heard anything as good. It’s a good enough amp that it is always a pleasure to switch back to it after listening to my headphones through some other amp. I’m like you though- I want to pick up a really good SS amp just so I can have both.
> 
> I’m also thinking I need a pair of ZMF headphones with a ZMF amp so I can see how that works too.



I know this may be a stupid question, but I gotta ask: Can you think of two songs that you love and have played to death for years? So well, you know every word and almost every note. Now, can you describe the difference between how it sounds on your best SS amp vs the Lyr 3?

My Burson Fun-Classic sounds very different from my Liquid Carbon X. And I love that contrast.

Shane D


----------



## 441879

Shane D said:


> I know this may be a stupid question, but I gotta ask: Can you think of two songs that you love and have played to death for years? So well, you know every word and almost every note. Now, can you describe the difference between how it sounds on your best SS amp vs the Lyr 3?
> 
> My Burson Fun-Classic sounds very different from my Liquid Carbon X. And I love that contrast.
> 
> Shane D




Using my Focal Clears because pretty much any amp can drive them fine. Comparing LYR3 +Topping D50 to FIIO Q5 (because that’s what is in the house right now) the differences are pretty consistent independent of song, but I’ll give it a shot. By the way, I’m using a PSVANE CV-181 TII. different tubes will sound different. This particular tube produces great mids and highs with energetic but un-emphasized bass.

Song one:


The Lyr3 mids are more prominent and there’s a more air in the treble, giving a better soundstage- it sounds more like a live room. The FIIO has a darker background (a lot of the room sound seems to be missing). The mids are more pulled back so the bass and sub bass are more prominent. Treble seems a little less sparkly.

Song two:


This song shows to my ears the real advantage of the Lyr3. The sound stage is just better. On the Q5 it’s much smaller, closer and the separation isn’t there. Not to say the Q5 doesn’t sound good, it’s just the Lyr3 does a better job of convincing your brain you’re in the audience.


----------



## Shane D

will f said:


> Using my Focal Clears because pretty much any amp can drive them fine. Comparing LYR3 +Topping D50 to FIIO Q5 (because that’s what is in the house right now) the differences are pretty consistent independent of song, but I’ll give it a shot. By the way, I’m using a PSVANE CV-181 TII. different tubes will sound different. This particular tube produces great mids and highs with energetic but un-emphasized bass.
> 
> Song one:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the feedback. I SO wish I could test one out in person. I may just have to bite the bullet and do a blind buy.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I SO wish I could test one out in person. I may just have to bite the bullet and do a blind buy.
> 
> Shane D



Schiit has some B-stock Lyr 3's right now. You lose return privileges, but saves you a little up front.  My 2nd Vali 2 was a B-stock, and quite honestly there's no way of telling it's a B-stock visually -- it's as flawless as a full priced one.


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> Schiit has some B-stock Lyr 3's right now. You lose return privileges, but saves you a little up front.  My 2nd Vali 2 was a B-stock, and quite honestly there's no way of telling it's a B-stock visually -- it's as flawless as a full priced one.



I have been looking at that all weekend.

Still works out to $675.00, plus 15% sales tax. Yikes!

Shane D


----------



## earnmyturns

Shane D said:


> So, it won't be a big change compared to SS amps, just a subtle difference?


I owned a Lyr 3 and used it with a variety of tubes until recently. I sold it because once the Lyr 3 dragged me into tube-land, which I had resisted for a long time, I fell in head first and ended up going from Lyr 3 to very well-regarded but discontinued amps, first the Apex Peak (another 6SN7 hybrid, less powerful than the Lyr 3 but a step up with the headphones I own) and eventually an Eddie Current Aficionado, which is my current favorite amp with ZMF Verité headphones. Apex Peak and EC Aficionado, even well used (both had several previous careful owners) are way more expensive than the Lyr 3 new. They are better to my ears, but if I had not gone down the tube rabbit hole I'd be quite happy with the Lyr 3. The Lyr 3 is (to my ears) a big step up from Schiit solid state amps I've used (Asgard 2, Jotunheim), Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and also a step up from the Neurochrome HP-1 I have at work (I kept it rather than the Lyr 3 because I wanted to have at work something I can turn on and off at will, leave on long periods unattended, etc). The only solid-state amp I've heard that (IMO) bests the Lyr 3 is the SPL Phonitor XE I have at home, which costs 3.5x as much. Summary: Asgard 2 < Cavalli Liquid Carbon < Jotunheim < Neurochrome HP-1 < Lyr 3 < Apex Peak < Phonitor XE < EC Aficionado, tested with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow, MrSpeakers Æon Closed, and ZMF Verité silkwood. There's quite a bit of variation between these but even the Aficionado is not that tube-y with the tubes I have on it. Lyr 3 with a nice NOS tube (such as Westinghouse Reliatron "D-getter," Ken-Rad VT23, ...) is just that tad warm but not bloomy at all, punchy solid bass, detailed mids, crisp highs. For calibration, I listen mostly to modern jazz and various kinds of solo and orchestral classical music (From my Roon "most played: András Schiff's Bach _Das wohltemperierte Clavier_, Vijay Iyer Trio's _Accelerando_, Nels Cline's _Lovers_, Charlie Haden/John Taylor's _Nightfall_, Bill Frisell/Thomas Morgan _Small Town_, Romina Basso's _Voces de Sefarad_, Wolfgang Muthspiel's _Rising Grace_, Aaron Park's _Little Big_).


----------



## Shane D

earnmyturns said:


> I owned a Lyr 3 and used it with a variety of tubes until recently. I sold it because once the Lyr 3 dragged me into tube-land, which I had resisted for a long time, I fell in head first and ended up going from Lyr 3 to very well-regarded but discontinued amps, first the Apex Peak (another 6SN7 hybrid, less powerful than the Lyr 3 but a step up with the headphones I own) and eventually an Eddie Current Aficionado, which is my current favorite amp with ZMF Verité headphones. Apex Peak and EC Aficionado, even well used (both had several previous careful owners) are way more expensive than the Lyr 3 new. They are better to my ears, but if I had not gone down the tube rabbit hole I'd be quite happy with the Lyr 3. The Lyr 3 is (to my ears) a big step up from Schiit solid state amps I've used (Asgard 2, Jotunheim), Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and also a step up from the Neurochrome HP-1 I have at work (I kept it rather than the Lyr 3 because I wanted to have at work something I can turn on and off at will, leave on long periods unattended, etc). The only solid-state amp I've heard that (IMO) bests the Lyr 3 is the SPL Phonitor XE I have at home, which costs 3.5x as much. Summary: Asgard 2 < Cavalli Liquid Carbon < Jotunheim < Neurochrome HP-1 < Lyr 3 < Apex Peak < Phonitor XE < EC Aficionado, tested with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow, MrSpeakers Æon Closed, and ZMF Verité silkwood. There's quite a bit of variation between these but even the Aficionado is not that tube-y with the tubes I have on it. Lyr 3 with a nice NOS tube (such as Westinghouse Reliatron "D-getter," Ken-Rad VT23, ...) is just that tad warm but not bloomy at all, punchy solid bass, detailed mids, crisp highs. For calibration, I listen mostly to modern jazz and various kinds of solo and orchestral classical music (From my Roon "most played: András Schiff's Bach _Das wohltemperierte Clavier_, Vijay Iyer Trio's _Accelerando_, Nels Cline's _Lovers_, Charlie Haden/John Taylor's _Nightfall_, Bill Frisell/Thomas Morgan _Small Town_, Romina Basso's _Voces de Sefarad_, Wolfgang Muthspiel's _Rising Grace_, Aaron Park's _Little Big_).



Wow, that is one king size reply!

Thanks for the feedback. I have no doubt that the Lyr 3 sounds great, I just have to figure out/guess if it is a sound that I like.

Speaking of Jazz, do you subscribe to Jazziz? I just got my quarterly issue with CD's featuring a WIDE selection of music. Very cool and Very interesting.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

bcowen said:


> The cheap Chinese amps are just that.  'Nuff said.  If you want to get a _good_ hybrid amp to test the tube waters, you might consider the Vali 2. It puts out a full watt into 32 ohms, and if your phones are very sensitive (efficiency is used interchangeably a lot, but it's a different thing) that will be plenty of power. Big difference in price from the Lyr 3, but don't let the Vali 2's much lower price dissuade you - it's a killer amp in its own right.



I am going to give your advice a shot. I think I have an agreement in place and will close in the morning, if everything goes right.

I will be the 3rd owner of a Vali 2 with a Telefunken tube. It will cost me 1/4 of the price of a new B unit Lyr 3 from Schiit.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Shane D


----------



## JamminVMI

Shane D said:


> Way more power than I would ever need as I don't listen loud and my 'phones are very efficient.
> 
> Just looking for a different sound. I tried to dip my toe into the "tube hybrid" world with the Loxjie P20 and was very disappointed. The P20 with Russian tubes cost me about $175.00.
> The Lyr 3, with a few tubes, will run  me about $700.00 to $750.00, landed (Canada).
> ...


Agree completely! The tube hybrid offers you options to tailor the sound a bit to your tastes by rolling tubes (which can, as many have pointed out, can be a financial rabbit hole). But Lyr has a boatload of power (which has been pointed out), and I use mine with IEMs and headphones alike. Frankly, it’s the best headphone amp I’ve heard (at least to my taste). Right now it’s got a baldwin-labeled sylvania in it, and it’s driving Hifiman Sundara, which take more power than I thought they would. But there’s nothing wrong with either of the stock tubes, they’re just different.

Enjoy!


----------



## JamminVMI

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> Cost is always an issue, but you gotta pay to play.
> 
> Well I am up to about page 104 in this thread. And then there is another long thread on the site that is not to named.
> ...


I know I'm not helping here, but although I love the Lyr 3, which has pride of place in my main listening area, my desk has a smaller Schiit stack, topped vy Vali 2. Couldn’t be happier!


----------



## Shane D

JamminVMI said:


> I know I'm not helping here, but although I love the Lyr 3, which has pride of place in my main listening area, my desk has a smaller Schiit stack, topped vy Vali 2. Couldn’t be happier!



I just this minute closed a deal on a used Vali 2. I will try it for a month or two and see if I like it. If I end up really liking it, I will probably go after a Lyr 3. Today I bought some Beautiful pads for my Grado's and a used Vali 2. Next month is the Monoprice THX AAA 887. And then I will decide in the new year if I really am a tube guy.

Shane D


----------



## koover (Oct 8, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Or a pre-'57 Foton 6N8S.


Can’t seem to find a pre 57, only double triode 1958 and everything else in the 60’s.
Are the 1958’s  worth going after?


----------



## Shane D

Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.

I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
Is this just a case of mistakes being made in the early going (2010) and haunting the company a decade later?

Thanks for any explanations.

Shane D


----------



## koover

Shane D said:


> Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.
> 
> I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
> Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
> ...


Incredibly interesting post. As much as I read Head-fi, I don't remember reading about this. What's funny, I rarely read the Schiit owners unite thread which I probably should. I pretty much read the entire MJ2 and Gumby threads when i bought them respectively, but it's been a while so my memory doesn't serve me like it did when I was younger and that was a damn long time ago. Sucks getting older man! I'm a believer in their products because IMHO you get the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality/performance versus price. I also owned the Modi, Magni, LYR 2 an d probabley other stuff that I just can't remember this second but I've never had an issue with any of their gear. Not a peep!

The reason I even posted this is because I just got my hands on a LYR 3 this weekend and I'm so lovin it. I can't believe at this point that I like it a LOT more then my MJ2 and it's not even close to being burned in. Maybe 15 hours? I actually won it in a raffle at our meet this past Saturday in Phoenix. Talk about lucky. Wasn't sure if I really wanted it because of the MJ2 and the 75 pairs of tubes that I have. I'm so glad I did win it because I can't get enough of it. Can't wait to hear it when it's fully charged and gassed up.

I'm also using some tube one of the guys at the meet was kind enough to give me along with a boatload of others. He told me it's supposed to be a 6SN7 holy grail and at this point, it sounds so much better then anything I every rolled in the MJ2 and I have some solid tubes. I just won't take it out to take a pic so maybe someone can tell me what the heck it is. It's just that good and it's staying in until I decide I want to roll one of the other 50 or so tubes my friend gave me to audition out.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 15, 2019)

I’ve been running HD600s off an original Lyr for as long as I can remember without a single hiccup, and I take no special precaution to unplug the headphones before power up/power down. I think the accusation that Schiit amps are at fault is a bunch of self serving hogwash, like the old ladies who claim brake failure when they accidentally hit the gas and drive through the front window at the 7-11.  And small tubes like these don’t die catastrophically like a power pentode - they just start to fizzle and pop. They’d never destroy a pair of headphones upon death.  Maybe 6sn7s are different than e88ccs  in that regard, but I don’t think so.

EDIT:  I understand now that the muting relay which my unit has was added after owners of some early units experienced problems, but that the modification was offered free of charge to all owners and incorporated into the design going forward, so kudos and Schiit.


----------



## porchwizard

Shane D said:


> While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.



You are making a very negative reference without citations, such that it can neither be refuted, confirmed, investigated, evaluated, or analyzed. If you can dig up some of those references and post them it would be very helpful in establishing veracity and relevance.

There were some incidents of large headphone diaphragm excursions that led to Schiit adding a muting relay.  I don't remember (and I haven't tried to find) the details about which amp (but it's in one of @Jason Stoddard 's chapters).  I'm thinking it was an Asgard.  I don't believe any headphones were harmed in that incident but the behavior of the amp was bad enough to warrant a fix.

You have to be careful about perpetuating myths and rumors or generalizing from specific incidents.


----------



## Jason Stoddard (Oct 9, 2019)

Shane D said:


> Well, I finally finished reading the whole thread! Wow. And then I ended up buying a used Vali 2 , that I hopefully have for the weekend.
> 
> I read head-fi a lot. I mean a Lot. Whenever anything catches my attention (mostly headphones and amps), I immediately look it up on head-fi and read the product thread. They are often hundreds of pages and I love to learn about the item from afar. I mention all this for one reason. While I have read about dozens of headphone amps over the years, the Schiit models are the only ones that where I read about headphones being destroyed by an amp. Most fans brush it off as a freak occurance and say that it happens so rarely that it is not worth talking about.
> Granted I have not read hundreds of amp threads, and very few tube threads, but why does the headphone killer talk always arise at some point in a Schiit amp thread?
> ...





koover said:


> Incredibly interesting post. As much as I read Head-fi, I don't remember reading about this. What's funny, I rarely read the Schiit owners unite thread which I probably should. I pretty much read the entire MJ2 and Gumby threads when i bought them respectively, but it's been a while so my memory doesn't serve me like it did when I was younger and that was a damn long time ago. Sucks getting older man! I'm a believer in their products because IMHO you get the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality/performance versus price. I also owned the Modi, Magni, LYR 2 an d probabley other stuff that I just can't remember this second but I've never had an issue with any of their gear. Not a peep!
> 
> The reason I even posted this is because I just got my hands on a LYR 3 this weekend and I'm so lovin it. I can't believe at this point that I like it a LOT more then my MJ2 and it's not even close to being burned in. Maybe 15 hours? I actually won it in a raffle at our meet this past Saturday in Phoenix. Talk about lucky. Wasn't sure if I really wanted it because of the MJ2 and the 75 pairs of tubes that I have. I'm so glad I did win it because I can't get enough of it. Can't wait to hear it when it's fully charged and gassed up.
> 
> I'm also using some tube one of the guys at the meet was kind enough to give me along with a boatload of others. He told me it's supposed to be a 6SN7 holy grail and at this point, it sounds so much better then anything I every rolled in the MJ2 and I have some solid tubes. I just won't take it out to take a pic so maybe someone can tell me what the heck it is. It's just that good and it's staying in until I decide I want to roll one of the other 50 or so tubes my friend gave me to audition out.



Some answers on this:

1. Yes, we made some mistakes, back in the original "garage era" days. The original run of Lyrs (1) in 2011 did not have any protection relay in them, and killed some headphones. Some early runs of Asgard also didn't have a protection relay, but we don't know of any actual headphone fails caused by Asgard. We have made all of those customers whole as far as I know, plus we recalled both Lyr and Asgard for relay installs, plus we have a policy that continues to this day that we'll add a relay to any amp we missed (because products were resold, etc) at no charge.

2. Since then, pretty much everything has had a protection relay, and the higher-power amps have had DC sense and protect that lifts the output in case of any fault. Both Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 3 have a protection relay and DC sense and protect. Now, that said, protection can fail and unexpected things can happen. If you still have headphone-damaging problems with any of our amps, of course we'll take care of you, and make sure you get a properly working amp and headphones repaired at no cost...or a full refund if you want to look at something else.

3. We've been in business for 9.5 years and have literally shipped hundreds of thousands of products. Despite this, our service load is relatively small--as in, we only need one full-time technician, including fixing products that fail internally on the burn rack. This speaks to the inherent reliability of our products. If that is not your experience, I apologize, but I urge you to contact us and give us a chance to make it good.

I hope that clears things up.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 9, 2019)

Quite a few Audio Science Review members frequently call Schiit HP amps 'headphone killers', but then again they bash practically all things Schiit -- HP amps and DACs.  I think they are secretly jealous of the product's fan base and the resale value it holds in comparison to other products.  Don't get me wrong -- there's some good info at ASR, but you have to learn to ignore the Schiit-bashing which is quite prevalent.

The instance posted by Porchwizard is correct and I too do not recall an actual failure -- only that it MIGHT lead to HP damage.  And as stated, it was addressed by Schiit via muting relay at power-on.  We have had 2-3 users here at HF report losing a HP when using them with Lyr 3 (in this thread, I believe).  I believe 2 of them were a result of a component failure and 1 of the 3 may have been related to power issues.  I almost lost a HP but was there to unplug it after a left servo and resistor failed in my Lyr 3.  My experience and those other 3 reported were early on and I've not heard or read anything about failures and HP damage since.  I love my Lyr 3 and would not trade it for anything (except maybe a Lyr 4)!!

Personally -- I'd take the reporting of Schiit having extreme QC issues or that Schiit amps put everyone's HPs at risk as a campaign mounted by the uneducated parroting a few folks with an ax to grind.  


Ooops.  I see that @Jason Stoddard  posted while I was typing ...


----------



## 441879

The Lyr3 has a loyal fan base because it’s an amazing sounding amp, but if it wasn’t reasonably reliable and safe for headphones, nobody sane would be risking $1500 headphones on it. 

My first Lyr3 shorted out in a puff of smoke while my headphones were plugged in. I was a little worried because I’d seen the odd comment referring to Schiits as headphone killers. The phones and the tube were fine though and Schiit replaced the amp. I haven’t worried since.


----------



## cebuboy

I already posted this here before, my Lyr 3 blew out the right driver of my HD650. Cause was a faulty tube. Replaced the tube and the amp was fine.


----------



## Shane D

Jason Stoddard said:


> Some answers on this:
> 
> 1. Yes, we made some mistakes, back in the original "garage era" days. The original run of Lyrs (1) in 2011 did not have any protection relay in them, and killed some headphones. Some early runs of Asgard also didn't have a protection relay, but we don't know of any actual headphone fails caused by Asgard. We have made all of those customers whole as far as I know, plus we recalled both Lyr and Asgard for relay installs, plus we have a policy that continues to this day that we'll add a relay to any amp we missed (because products were resold, etc) at no charge.
> 
> ...



It does. Thank you for the reply.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

porchwizard said:


> You are making a very negative reference without citations, such that it can neither be refuted, confirmed, investigated, evaluated, or analyzed. If you can dig up some of those references and post them it would be very helpful in establishing veracity and relevance.
> 
> There were some incidents of large headphone diaphragm excursions that led to Schiit adding a muting relay.  I don't remember (and I haven't tried to find) the details about which amp (but it's in one of @Jason Stoddard 's chapters).  I'm thinking it was an Asgard.  I don't believe any headphones were harmed in that incident but the behavior of the amp was bad enough to warrant a fix.
> 
> You have to be careful about perpetuating myths and rumors or generalizing from specific incidents.



I was not trying to be negative or bashing Schiit. I LOVE my Loki and just bought a Vali 2. If it does what I hope, I will buy a Lyr 3. And that is no cheap item in Canada.

I had just heard these annecdotes a few times and wondered about the background/basis of them.

Jason was kind enough to confirm what I suspected (early growing pains) and the subject is now closed.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Can’t seem to find a pre 57, only double triode 1958 and everything else in the 60’s.
> Are the 1958’s  worth going after?



Yes, the '58's are quite good (as are the  '57's and '59's).  Not quite to the level of the ribbed plate ('56 and earlier), but great sounding just the same and much better than any of the '60's tubes. Be aware that you may have to re-do the solder in the pins...


----------



## koover

Ok fellas, tell me what i got? Junk?....never seen this before and the guy/friend who gave it to me says it’s “supposed” to be a holy grail. If it’s junk, mr ears have gone jacked up then....cause I like.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 11, 2019)

Not junk.  A Sylvania 6SN7GT.  Not a 3-hole bad-boy, but still a nice good-boy.  26th week of 1951 seems about right. Some refer to them as 2-hole Bad Boys.


----------



## koover (Oct 11, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Not junk.  A Sylvania 6SN7GT.  Not a 3-hole bad-boy, but still a good-boy.  Likely 26th week of 1951 seems about right.


year? 1953?

Oops, what the heck was I looking at. Thanx Rip!


----------



## Wes S

Yep,  it's a bad boy.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 11, 2019)

koover said:


> year? 1953?
> 
> Oops, what the heck was I looking at. Thanx Rip!



312 is the MFG'er code and 312 is Sylvania.  126 is the MFG date code which is typically last digit of the YEAR and 2-digit week.  Definitely not a 1951 (that would be a GTA) and not a 1941(I don't think 1941 Sylvie's had spiked top micas).



Wes S said:


> Yep,  it's a bad boy.



Not a 3-hole bad-boy, but some claim there were 2-hole bad boys, as well (same physical attributes as 3-hole units but plates only had 2-holes).  I'll leave the "2-holes are not true bad-boys" argument to others, but as one that owns an early 50s 2-hole and a true 3-hole badboy, I can say that I could not pick one over the other in a blind test.


----------



## koover (Oct 11, 2019)

Well all I can say whatever type of boy it is, good or evil, they truly sound excellent in the LYR3 with Aeolus.

I was actually blown away coming from my daily gear of the MJ2 with Gumby and didn't  expect this type of sonic performance. The Gumby/MJ2 absolutely kill it to my ears at least but man, I don’t know guys, I’m kinda leaning towards the LYR3 as my preference. Plus I’ve only rolled in the whatever the hell kinda boy I have to this point.

Take a look above what my friend gave me and said.....

“Here, check these out bro. You can’t keep them all but take a bunch that you like and give the rest back at the next meet in phoenix”

The thing is, it’ll be another 6 months or maybe a year before our next meet. Maybe he’s got short/long term memory issues. All kidding aside……..
Nevertheless, I’ll be able to test out a boatload of tubes and keep what I want plus get an idea of what I like and can pick up if needed. Don’t think I’ll need more tubes though.
Such a great freakin guy and I mean it. Love this community.

Edit: apologies for the double posts of pics.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 11, 2019)

Very nice!!  Tung-sols are always nice, and the brown-base tube at the bottom looks like it could be a 5692 or at least a 6SN7WGT.  Might be worth giving them a whirl, as well, as well.  The 2-hole plate / copper-rod Syvlie you are currently grooving to is a nice tube and could be tough to beat.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 12, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> 312 is the MFG'er code and 312 is Sylvania.  126 is the MFG date code which is typically last digit of the YEAR and 2-digit week.  Definitely not a 1951 (that would be a GTA) and not a 1941(I don't think 1941 Sylvie's had spiked top micas).
> 
> 
> 
> Not a 3-hole bad-boy, but some claim there were 2-hole bad boys, as well (same physical attributes as 3-hole units but plates only had 2-holes).  I'll leave the "2-holes are not true bad-boys" argument to others, but as one that owns an early 50s 2-hole and a true 3-hole badboy, I can say that I could not pick one over the other in a blind test.





Ripper2860 said:


> 312 is the MFG'er code and 312 is Sylvania.  126 is the MFG date code which is typically last digit of the YEAR and 2-digit week.  Definitely not a 1951 (that would be a GTA) and not a 1941(I don't think 1941 Sylvie's had spiked top micas).
> 
> 
> 
> Not a 3-hole bad-boy, but some claim there were 2-hole bad boys, as well (same physical attributes as 3-hole units but plates only had 2-holes).  I'll leave the "2-holes are not true bad-boys" argument to others, but as one that owns an early 50s 2-hole and a true 3-hole badboy, I can say that I could not pick one over the other in a blind test.


Sorry I was looking at pic from phone, and did not see the holes in the plates.  Not a bad boy, but is a Sylvania, as Ripper stated.


----------



## koover

Hey, 1 last thing.
Any recommendations for a 5670 to 6sn7 and 6922 to 6sn7 adapters? Can anyone link me up with something good and not cheap junk adapets?


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> Hey, 1 last thing.
> Any recommendations for a 5670 to 6sn7 and 6922 to 6sn7 adapters? Can anyone link me up with something good and not cheap junk adapets?


Get in touch with member @Deyan.  He has been making some killer adapters, that all the Glenn OTL (end game tube amp) owners have been going crazy over.  They are high quality and he can make them to your specifications.  He is in Bulgaria.  Hope that helps.


----------



## Deyan

koover said:


> Hey, 1 last thing.
> Any recommendations for a 5670 to 6sn7 and 6922 to 6sn7 adapters? Can anyone link me up with something good and not cheap junk adapets?



Hello sir. What has to be on top and what on the bottom.


----------



## koover

Deyan said:


> Hello sir. What has to be on top and what on the bottom.


Isn’t that getting a bit personal? I don’t know you that well.  All kidding aside....

*The 5672 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter  
*The 6922 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter  

Is that what you’re asking? Thanx!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Get in touch with member @Deyan.  He has been making some killer adapters, that all the Glenn OTL (end game tube amp) owners have been going crazy over.  They are high quality and he can make them to your specifications.  He is in Bulgaria.  Hope that helps.



Good to know.  Thanks for passing that along Wes.  I make most of my own adapters, but having a good source for quality adapters is always helpful.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Isn’t that getting a bit personal? I don’t know you that well.  All kidding aside....
> 
> *The 5672 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter
> *The 6922 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter
> ...



You meant 5670 (aka 2C51 / 396A) on the top one, right?  Otherwise I'm now confused.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> You meant 5670 (aka 2C51 / 396A) on the top one, right?  Otherwise I'm now confused.


Yes, sorry man.


----------



## Deyan

koover said:


> Isn’t that getting a bit personal? I don’t know you that well.  All kidding aside....
> 
> *The 5672 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter
> *The 6922 tube on top into the 6sn7 adapter
> ...



Mhm that was the question. Well they don't seem to be a problem. The only thing different than other adapters is that the tube is recessed so I'll have to make them taller or make an extractor tool.


----------



## bcowen

Deyan said:


> Mhm that was the question. Well they don't seem to be a problem. The only thing different than other adapters is that the tube is recessed so I'll have to make them taller or make an extractor tool.



You can make these with a taller base?  Now *that* would be ultra cool.  The tube sockets in most (if not all) Schiit pieces are recessed, which means adding a socket saver (or extension socket) in many cases along with the adapter. If the base of the adapter itself was taller than the usual ones seen, it would eliminate that additional piece and eliminate the additional set of contacts.


----------



## Deyan

bcowen said:


> You can make these with a taller base?  Now *that* would be ultra cool.  The tube sockets in most (if not all) Schiit pieces are recessed, which means adding a socket saver (or extension socket) in many cases along with the adapter. If the base of the adapter itself was taller than the usual ones seen, it would eliminate that additional piece and eliminate the additional set of contacts.



Sure I can. Here are some examples


----------



## bcowen

Deyan said:


> Sure I can. Here are some examples



Oh man.  Those are sweet!  One more question for you though: how do you wire the top socket to the lower base? Do you use a direct wire connection (socket-to-pin), or do you use an internal circuit board between the two?


----------



## Deyan

bcowen said:


> Oh man.  Those are sweet!  One more question for you though: how do you wire the top socket to the lower base? Do you use a direct wire connection (socket-to-pin), or do you use an internal circuit board between the two?



Point to point. There are cases where I use PCBs but they involve other components in the adapter.


----------



## bcowen

Deyan said:


> Point to point. There are cases where I use PCBs but they involve other components in the adapter.



Awesome!  This is not the place for sales transactions, so sending you a PM. But many thanks for the info here.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> Awesome!  This is not the place for sales transactions, so sending you a PM. But many thanks for the info here.


I’ll also send you a Pm @Deyan when I get a chance.


----------



## 441879

Just got from a trip using my iPhone as the DAC/amp for my Focal Clears. Now that I’m back home it’s so nice to listen through the Lyr3. The difference in soundstage,detail and dynamics is quite noticeable. Doesn’t even sound like the same headphone.


----------



## koover (Nov 10, 2019)

Damn these are nice and incredibly easy to use. Now I can roll in all my 2C51/E88cc, etc tubes in the L3 along with my MJ2. Very cool indeed as you won’t need a socket saver any longer as it’s built into the adapter. 
Of course the tube in the 1st pick has the adapter for the 2C51 and the like. It’s pretty cool having all this versatility with this amp.
He does good work gents and he’s reasonable. @Deyan is the master craftsman if anyone’s interested in rolling in a different variant of tubes in this amp.


----------



## koover

Forgot the pics


----------



## Deyan

koover said:


> Damn these are nice and incredibly easy to use. Now I can roll in all my 2C51/E88cc, etc tubes in the L3 along with my MJ2. Very cool indeed as you won’t need a socket saver any longer as it’s built into the adapter.
> Of course the tube in the 1st pick has the adapter for the 2C51 and the like. It’s pretty cool having all this versatility with this amp.
> He does good work gents and he’s reasonable. @Deyan is the master craftsman if anyone’s interested in rolling in a different variant of tubes in this amp.



Thank you for the kind words sir.


----------



## cebuboy

koover said:


> Damn these are nice and incredibly easy to use. Now I can roll in all my 2C51/E88cc, etc tubes in the L3 along with my MJ2. Very cool indeed as you won’t need a socket saver any longer as it’s built into the adapter.
> Of course the tube in the 1st pick has the adapter for the 2C51 and the like. It’s pretty cool having all this versatility with this amp.
> He does good work gents and he’s reasonable. @Deyan is the master craftsman if anyone’s interested in rolling in a different variant of tubes in this amp.


How does it sound compared to the 6SN7s?


----------



## malenak

Hi all! I am asking for advice for some nice socket saver (raiser) for 6SN7 tubes for Lyr3. I just got Psvane CV181-T II and it will be much better with tube raiser. I prefer good quality over "cheap-crap" choice. For any links, I will be so grateful!

Btw, I am already testing Tung-Sol, Electro Harmonix and comparing with JJ. Psvaane is at home as well. I am so curious about the upcoming evenings...


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 14, 2019)

*I bought these a year or so ago when I bought my LYR3.*





*I ORDERED 4 of THESE FROM王龙飞   auakg@suzier.com*

*I also have 4 from tube monger at $20.00 each *



*Both do the job and fit tight. Often times the saver comes with or loosens when pulling a tube but I feel it's not an issue.

Another source is "Antique Electronic Supply".*


----------



## malenak

Thanks!

So, which one will be the One?


----------



## Ripper2860

+1 for the Tubemonger.  I prefer it over the Chinese savers that I have, although they've never been problematic.  The TM saver definitely has a death grip on the tube, so I never worry about leaving the saver stranded in the amp.


----------



## tafens

FLTWS said:


> *I bought these a year or so ago when I bought my LYR3.*
> 
> 
> *I ORDERED 4 of THESE FROM王龙飞   auakg@suzier.com*



I have this one also. It does its thing well.
Although, it grips the tube pins so well that it always comes out with the tube..


----------



## EELawson

FLTWS said:


> *I bought these a year or so ago when I bought my LYR3.*
> 
> 
> *I ORDERED 4 of THESE FROM王龙飞   auakg@suzier.com*
> ...



I bought a set of 4 of these for my Freya.  Three of the four split apart inside the Freya and had to be painstakingly removed.  

I then purchased 4 expensive ones from Tubemonger.  They are well-worth the money.  Very solid.  Very happy with those.


----------



## cddc

Ripper2860 said:


> +1 for the Tubemonger.  I prefer it over the Chinese savers that I have, although they've never been problematic.  The TM saver definitely has a death grip on the tube, so I never worry about leaving the saver stranded in the amp.



Just curious, have you opened any of these TubeMonger or Chinese adapters by chance? 

I find lots of these Chinese adapters use PCB to connect the top and bottom sockets, and I'm concerned about the thin printed wires on the PCB, you know, I always prefer using solid core copper/silver wires to connect parts/sockets.


----------



## Deyan

Or maybe a tall socket saver.


----------



## cddc

Deyan said:


> Or maybe a tall socket saver.



This is an awesome looking socket saver @Deyan ...is the top socket connected to the bottom pins through point-to-point wire connection (i.e. no PCB boards are used)?


----------



## Deyan

cddc said:


> This is an awesome looking socket saver @Deyan ...is the top socket connected to the bottom pins through point-to-point wire connection (i.e. no PCB boards are used)?



It is point to point yes.


----------



## cddc (Nov 15, 2019)

Deyan said:


> It is point to point yes.




Cool, that's great! Point-to-point wire connection is way better than the fu*king thin wires printed on the PCBs as always.

I don't understand the fu*king logic why most adapters or socket savers use PCBs to connect sockets ....You know users of these adapters/savers are all tube amp owners, and tube amp owners prefer copper/silver wire point-to-point connections, that's why they go tube instead of solid state...

Very glad to know that yours is point-to-point wire connection. If I have future adapter/socket saver needs, I know where to find the quality ones now.


----------



## FLTWS

I've never had a problem with any of the 3 or 4 different 8 pin or 9 pin savers I have.


----------



## malenak

Hi guys. I would like to ask, what are your experiences with burning in of the Psvane CV181-TII tube? I burned in JJ 6SN7 and Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and I am really not sure about it, but I think, that both tubes improves after app. 100-150 hours. And the improvement is actually quite a big. Tuug-Sol definitely sounds more spacious and JJ get hard to describe way, how it sounds. It is very euphoric sound. I am not sure if the timbre is the right word, but the combination of JJ with my LCD-2C works great. I would definitely try to make detailed description of my tubes, but I want to spend with all my tubes more time and get them enough time to open their potential.


----------



## bcowen

cddc said:


> Cool, that's great! Point-to-point wire connection is way better than the fu*king thin wires printed on the PCBs as always.
> 
> I don't understand the fu*king logic why most adapters or socket savers use PCBs to connect sockets ....You know users of these adapters/savers are all tube amp owners, and tube amp owners prefer copper/silver wire point-to-point connections, that's why they go tube instead of solid state...
> 
> Very glad to know that yours is point-to-point wire connection. If I have future adapter/socket saver needs, I know where to find the quality ones now.



I have a 6922 -> 7N7 adapter that @Deyan made for me. Top notch quality, and a highly recommended go-to person for any adapter needs. Much, much nicer quality than any of the Chinese offerings. I haven't tried any of the Tubemonger adapters so can't speak to those...


----------



## 441879

malenak said:


> Hi guys. I would like to ask, what are your experiences with burning in of the Psvane CV181-TII tube? I burned in JJ 6SN7 and Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and I am really not sure about it, but I think, that both tubes improves after app. 100-150 hours. And the improvement is actually quite a big. Tuug-Sol definitely sounds more spacious and JJ get hard to describe way, how it sounds. It is very euphoric sound. I am not sure if the timbre is the right word, but the combination of JJ with my LCD-2C works great. I would definitely try to make detailed description of my tubes, but I want to spend with all my tubes more time and get them enough time to open their potential.



I figure it took about 25-30 hours for my CV181-TII to burn in, but unlike some tubes, the change wasn’t very dramatic. It got a bit more airy, but that was about it.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, Quick question about the lyr 3. Would like to use it with headphone as well as with my powered monitors that have their own volume control. So are the rca's on the back controlled by the lyrs volume or are they line level?
thanks,
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Ichos

Hi , they are controlled by the pot as it is a preamp.


----------



## chef8489

I really miss my Lyr 3 and my Lcd2c. Once I get back on my feet that will be the first thing I repurchase.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hang in there Chef.  Sending positive thoughts your way in hopes that your time is much sooner than expected!!   

I'd love to see you back in full swing here.


----------



## 441879

Anouk said:


> Hi, Quick question about the lyr 3. Would like to use it with headphone as well as with my powered monitors that have their own volume control. So are the rca's on the back controlled by the lyrs volume or are they line level?
> thanks,
> Greetings, Anouk,



its a preamp out so the volume knob on the Lyr will change the volume on the monitors


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> I really miss my Lyr 3 and my Lcd2c. Once I get back on my feet that will be the first thing I repurchase.



Chef!!  There you are.  Good to see you, man.  Hope things are getting better?  I second what Ripper said in seeing you back.  Hopefully sooner than later!


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> Chef!!  There you are.  Good to see you, man.  Hope things are getting better?  I second what Ripper said in seeing you back.  Hopefully sooner than later!


Thanks for the wishes. Hopefully have a hearing with a va judge to get my disability compensation back again. Really hate the va.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> Thanks for the wishes. Hopefully have a hearing with a va judge to get my disability compensation back again. Really hate the va.



Best wishes on that. And not to go way off topic here, but it's pretty upsetting to me that an agency that is supposed to _help_ those who have served to protect our freedoms and way of life is more of a hindrance in way too many cases. Very much hope you get what you need and deserve.


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> Best wishes on that. And not to go way off topic here, but it's pretty upsetting to me that an agency that is supposed to _help_ those who have served to protect our freedoms and way of life is more of a hindrance in way too many cases. Very much hope you get what you need and deserve.


Thanks so much.


----------



## Wes S

chef8489 said:


> I really miss my Lyr 3 and my Lcd2c. Once I get back on my feet that will be the first thing I repurchase.


I have really been missing my Lyr 3, as well!  I sold it, in a rush for some cash, and have been regretting it ever since.  I always loved tube rolling with the Lyr 3.  The 6SN7, is a really fun tube to roll, as there are a ton of choices, and the fact you only need 1 tube is awesome.  I learned so much about tube rolling with the Lyr 3, and it has a special place in my heart.  I still have all my "HOLY GRAIL" 6SN7's and do plan to buy another one someday.

I hope you get a Lyr 3 soon Chef!


----------



## chef8489

Wes S said:


> I have really been missing my Lyr 3, as well!  I sold it, in a rush for some cash, and have been regretting it ever since.  I always loved tube rolling with the Lyr 3.  The 6SN7, is a really fun tube to roll, as there are a ton of choices, and the fact you only need 1 tube is awesome.  I learned so much about tube rolling with the Lyr 3, and it has a special place in my heart.  I still have all my "HOLY GRAIL" 6SN7's and do plan to buy another one someday.
> 
> I hope you get a Lyr 3 soon Chef!


Wish I had kept my tubes. When I get the Lyr 3 again I will be sure to look up what tubes I had.


----------



## bcowen

chef8489 said:


> Wish I had kept my tubes. When I get the Lyr 3 again I will be sure to look up what tubes I had.



When you get set back up, let me know and I'll see what I can help with on the tubes.  IIRC, we had similar likes with several different tubes.


----------



## chef8489

bcowen said:


> When you get set back up, let me know and I'll see what I can help with on the tubes.  IIRC, we had similar likes with several different tubes.


Thanks so much. I appreciate that and will do.


----------



## showme99

bcowen said:


> When you get set back up, let me know and I'll see what I can help with on the tubes.  IIRC, we had similar likes with several different tubes.





chef8489 said:


> Thanks so much. I appreciate that and will do.



Love seeing Head-fiers helping each other out.


----------



## Wes S

showme99 said:


> Love seeing Head-fiers helping each other out.


Me too!  This forum has lots of great members, and lots of them are in this thread.


----------



## dematted

Does anyone have experience with how this pairs with the HD 600?

Also, does anyone know if this amp is still killing headphones, or has Schiit fixed that?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 9, 2019)

Geez.  Approx. 3 reports of someone losing a HP and somehow Lyr 3 is now considered a HP killer despite having likely sold 10s of 1000s?

No -- they are not killing headphones and certainly bring out the best in my HD650, so I would imagine HD600 will do just great.  Beware of sites that are prone to exaggeration and spreading a false anti-Schiit narrative.  (And I'm not talking about Fox news!!)  

It's a great HP amp and worthy of your consideration.  If these were truly HP killers, it would be all over HF forums and users would be revolting with Schiit likely having already declared bankruptcy.  Instead they are thriving!!


----------



## chef8489 (Dec 9, 2019)

dematted said:


> Does anyone have experience with how this pairs with the HD 600?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if this amp is still killing headphones, or has Schiit fixed that?


All you have to do is look through this thread and see it isnt killing headphones. There might have been one or two incidents where there was a problem but 99.9% have not had issues and schiit sticks by their products.

As for the second question. It works quite well with the hd650 so I would assume it work well with the hd600. Not tried with the 600 as I only had the 650.


----------



## 441879

dematted said:


> Does anyone have experience with how this pairs with the HD 600?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if this amp is still killing headphones, or has Schiit fixed that?



Here’s what Mike Moffat had to say about headphone killing:

1. Yes, we made some mistakes, back in the original "garage era" days. The original run of Lyrs (1) in 2011 did not have any protection relay in them, and killed some headphones. Some early runs of Asgard also didn't have a protection relay, but we don't know of any actual headphone fails caused by Asgard. We have made all of those customers whole as far as I know, plus we recalled both Lyr and Asgard for relay installs, plus we have a policy that continues to this day that we'll add a relay to any amp we missed (because products were resold, etc) at no charge.

2. Since then, pretty much everything has had a protection relay, and the higher-power amps have had DC sense and protect that lifts the output in case of any fault. Both Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 3 have a protection relay and DC sense and protect. Now, that said, protection can fail and unexpected things can happen. If you still have headphone-damaging problems with any of our amps, of course we'll take care of you, and make sure you get a properly working amp and headphones repaired at no cost...or a full refund if you want to look at something else.

3. We've been in business for 9.5 years and have literally shipped hundreds of thousands of products. Despite this, our service load is relatively small--as in, we only need one full-time technician, including fixing products that fail internally on the burn rack. This speaks to the inherent reliability of our products. If that is not your experience, I apologize, but I urge you to contact us and give us a chance to make it good.

I hope that clears things up.


----------



## FLTWS

I've had my LYR3 since April 2018 and have rolled at least 2 dozen different 6SN7 tube types (some requiring adapters). My Oppo PM-1's, HD600, HD800, HD800S, Utopia, and 1266 Phi have all,somehow, miraculously survived.


----------



## G0rt

Another data point...

I recently acquired an OG Lyr 3 from a fellow HF'er, and it ate 2 of my Senns.

Schiit repaired it, replacing the main board, although I was the 2nd owner, and it's now my favorite of all my Schiit, which includes a recent Jot, MJ2, VH2, Vali2 & Magni3.

I'm using either a '51 black plate, or a '52 gray plate Brimar CV1988, both from the Footscray factory. Oldway factory smoked glass incoming...

Lyr3/Brimar totally tame my HD800/SDR, HD700, HD800S, HD660S and others.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 10, 2019)

@G0rt -- How was the repair of Senns handled?  Did Senn handle under warranty or did Schiit reimburse or handle it for you?


----------



## FLTWS

G0rt said:


> Another data point...
> 
> I recently acquired an OG Lyr 3 from a fellow HF'er, and it ate 2 of my Senns.
> 
> ...



Were you aware this one was a Senn Assassin when you acquired it?


----------



## G0rt

FLTWS said:


> Were you aware this one was a Senn Assassin when you acquired it?



Luck of the draw. One of the tubes it came with sounded absolutely fabulous. Some  others provoked...bad reactions. 

Nobody's fault. Just one of those My-Isn't-Technology-Wonderful days. 

I found a few threads on the net about similar events, one mentioning bad servo components. The repaired unit, trying the same tubes that killed my Senns, exhibits no bad behavior.

My OG Gungnir MB and this Lyr 3 has become, for me, as close to endgame as I currently require.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> @G0rt -- How was the repair of Senns handled?  Did Senn handle under warranty or did Schiit reimburse or handle it for you?



My 600 & 650 remain deceased. I am so happy with Lyr 3 and 660S/700/800/800S that I haven't found motivation yet to fix or replace them.

Of them all, HD700 comes closest to what I want to hear, most of the time, so I don't worry much. Sometimes, a few must die so the rest may live.


----------



## FLTWS

G0rt said:


> Luck of the draw. One of the tubes it came with sounded absolutely fabulous. Some  others provoked...bad reactions.
> 
> Nobody's fault. Just one of those My-Isn't-Technology-Wonderful days.
> 
> ...



Interesting, the important thing is the tubes survived (especially if they are pricey NOS, they ain't making any new NOS!).


----------



## CaptainFantastic

G0rt said:


> My 600 & 650 remain deceased. I am so happy with Lyr 3 and 660S/700/800/800S that I haven't found motivation yet to fix or replace them.
> 
> Of them all, HD700 comes closest to what I want to hear, most of the time, so I don't worry much. Sometimes, a few must die so the rest may live.



So you are saying that you lost about $5-600 of headphones because of a faulty Lyr3, Schiit didn't reimburse you (or you didn't ask), and you are fine with that?


----------



## G0rt

FLTWS said:


> Interesting, the important thing is the tubes survived (especially if they are pricey NOS, they ain't making any new NOS!).



I have a good stash of 6SN7 family, and they all sound really nice, even the NP JJ and Tung Sol. 

NOS Westinghouse, Tung Sol and Sylvania are really good, but my jaw dropped hard when I heard the Brimar, which remain my favorite. Sweet, clear and delicate, very well balanced top to bottom and quiet.

The ones I have are older than me, and will probably outlast me.


----------



## G0rt

CaptainFantastic said:


> So you are saying that you lost about $5-600 of headphones because of a faulty Lyr3, Schiit didn't reimburse you (or you didn't ask), and you are fine with that?



I've been involved with tech for over 50 years, over 40 of that professionally, so I've acquired a somewhat philosophical attitude, you might say. In that time, I've seen some truly spectacular failures.

I didn't ask Schiit to replace my Senns. I even told them I didn't want the Lyr back (offering to send it to them for their own education) but they fixed it up and sent it back anyway. I'm happy they did.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 10, 2019)

In a prior post, @Jason Stoddard  stated that they worked with folks that had a HP damaged due a Lyr 3 failure. As far as I know, all that reported a HP failure and was determined to be a result of a Schiit product failure were made whole.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 10, 2019)

BTW:  I had a Lyr 3 failure -- left servo and resistor failed.  Fortunately, I was at my desk and was able power off and unplug my HPs quickly (which were buzzing very loudly), otherwise my Hifiman Anandas may have gone on to the big HP graveyard in the sky.  I'm only saying this to validate that there was an issue early-on which affected a very small number of folks, but the issue was seemingly resolved quickly with nothing like this being reported on HF since the early days of Lyr 3's introduction.


----------



## dematted

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm sure the Lyr 3 will sound really, really fantastic from everything that's been written. I suppose that I should buy one new, then, if I want to avoid a headphone failure?


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW:  I had a Lyr 3 failure -- left servo and resistor failed.  Fortunately, I was at my desk and was able power off and unplug my HPs quickly (which were buzzing very loudly), otherwise my Hifiman Anandas may have gone on to the big HP graveyard.  I'm only saying this to validate that there was an issue early on which affected a very small number of folks, but the issue was seemingly resolved quickly with nothing like this reported on HF since the early days of Lyr 3's introduction.



Ow. I'd hate to see my Anandas go up in smoke, for any reason at all. I usually use them with MJ2, though. I like my planars balanced, generally.


----------



## G0rt

dematted said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. I'm sure the Lyr 3 will sound really, really fantastic from everything that's been written. I suppose that I should buy one new, then, if I want to avoid a headphone failure?



Not much downside to a new Lyr.


----------



## Odin412

G0rt said:


> Not much downside to a new Lyr.



Indeed. Mine shipped today and is on the way!


----------



## bcowen

dematted said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. I'm sure the Lyr 3 will sound really, really fantastic from everything that's been written. I suppose that I should buy one new, then, if I want to avoid a headphone failure?



I bought mine in March, 2018 and it's performed flawlessly from Day 1.  And not to one-up @FLTWS or anything, but I've rolled 2 dozen tubes through it in a week.   No telling how many have had some listening time in the last year and a half... 

One thing I really like about the Lyr 3 is its total lack of any background noise. Flip it in high gain and crank the volume to the max (with no music playing) and all you get is dead silence through the 'phones.  Nice accomplishment for _any_ amp, let alone one with a tube in it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 10, 2019)

Have you tried checking the noise level with HPs plugged in?


----------



## joefig44

I'm likely going to be picking up a Focal Elex.

What Schitt product/combo would bring out the best of the Elex?

I also have an option to get a Meze Empyrean used for a good price - what Schitt product/combo would also bring the best out of that (even if different than for the Elex)?


----------



## dematted

joefig44 said:


> I'm likely going to be picking up a Focal Elex.
> 
> What Schitt product/combo would bring out the best of the Elex?
> 
> I also have an option to get a Meze Empyrean used for a good price - what Schitt product/combo would also bring the best out of that (even if different than for the Elex)?



I've heard that the Schiit Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 both pair very well with the Elex. The Lyr with is a bit more relaxed in its presentation, and the Asgard 3 a tad more detailed. I think the Asgard 3 is probably the better value, though the Lyr will let you tube roll and all.


----------



## 441879

joefig44 said:


> I'm likely going to be picking up a Focal Elex.
> 
> What Schitt product/combo would bring out the best of the Elex?
> 
> I also have an option to get a Meze Empyrean used for a good price - what Schitt product/combo would also bring the best out of that (even if different than for the Elex)?



I’d probably go Bifrost /Lyr 3 with the Elex and (assuming you have a solid wad of cash) Yggdrasil/ Mjolnir for the Empyrian. Not to say you couldn’t run both with either, But the Empy is a high end headphone and you’re going to need high end upstream gear to fully realize its potential.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Have you tried checking the noise level with HPs plugged in?



No.  Why?


----------



## joefig44

will f said:


> I’d probably go Bifrost /Lyr 3 with the Elex and (assuming you have a solid wad of cash) Yggdrasil/ Mjolnir for the Empyrian. Not to say you couldn’t run both with either, But the Empy is a high end headphone and you’re going to need high end upstream gear to fully realize its potential.
> Personally I’d hold off on the Empyrean etc until you listen to them. They’re not for everyone.



For the Bifrost/Lyr 3 - is that without any upgrades on the Bifrost?  I see lots of upgrade options on he Schitt site for the Bifrost and unsure what to select.

On another note:  I've been using my Sony 1000XM3 from my iPhone 11 Pro and while I know obviously an Elex + this combo would be a night and day difference, I have to say the 1000XM3 for the freedom it provides of wires actually sounds pretty good!  Makes me wonder if I want to part with the $$ just to be tied down to a desktop rig.


----------



## Ripper2860

Will F likely meant a Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 combo.  Bifrost 2 is the latest and greatest with no upgrades -- all the good stuff is already in there!!


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Will F likely meant a Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 combo.  Bifrost 2 is the latest and greatest with no upgrades -- all the good stuff is already in there!!



 Correct. Didn’t think the old Bifrost was still available.


----------



## tafens

The Lyr3 + Bifrost2 combo is so good I consider it my end game.

For now at least


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> The Lyr3 + Bifrost2 combo is so good I consider it my end game.
> 
> For now at least



There is no such thing as "end game" (except when Carolina beats Duke).  

What happens when the Lyr 4 comes out?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

bcowen said:


> There is no such thing as "end game" (except when Carolina beats Duke).
> 
> What happens when the Lyr 4 comes out?



Then the Lyr 3 can still be end-game for him. Example. I have owned the RME ADI-2 DAC for 12 months. For me, it is end-game although I am tempted to try a tube amp at some point. I use this for the medium-term (I hope 3-4 years). So when recently RME refreshed the ADI-2 with a newer DAC chip (4493?) a few weeks ago, I saw it as a small, incremental upgrade, that doesn't change anything for me. Being at 95 or 98% of what the latest model offers in terms of quality is imperceptible and not worth redefining end-game.

I know you were joking.


----------



## bcowen

CaptainFantastic said:


> I know you were joking.



Thank you.  I was.  But not about Carolina.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 11, 2019)

@bcowen - End Game is subjective and subject to individual interpretation as well  as subject to change.  My End Game may not be your End Game.  Heck it may not even be mine...

.And dream on about Carolina beating Duke.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> @bcowen - End Game is subjective and subject to individual interpretation as well  as subject to change.  My End Game may not be your End Game.  Heck it may not even be mine...
> 
> .And dream on about Carolina beating Duke.



End Game has been easily measured with an oscilloscope for 30+ years now.  I thought everyone knew that.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> End Game has been easily measured with an oscilloscope for 30+ years now.  I thought everyone knew that.




Actually, that is 'Head Game' that has been measured and quantified.  Homey don't play that!


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> There is no such thing as "end game" (except when Carolina beats Duke).
> 
> What happens when the Lyr 4 comes out?



Then I would have to consider it 

Bottom line is I don’t really find anything lacking with the Lyr3 + Bifrost2 + HD6XX setup 

I have a few things I want to try though (just because I’m curious if it can bring something I didn’t know I wanted); Psvane CV181-II and HD660S


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Then I would have to consider it
> 
> Bottom line is I don’t really find anything lacking with the Lyr3 + Bifrost2 + HD6XX setup
> 
> I have a few things I want to try though (just because I’m curious if it can bring something I didn’t know I wanted); Psvane CV181-II and HD660S



I ordered one of the PSVane CV181t -II's yesterday.  If anyone had suggested I spend $75 on a Chinese small octal 6 months ago, it would have been hard to express my hysterical laughter electronically.  Funny how even old dogs can learn new tricks sometimes.


----------



## G0rt

Brimar black bottle CV1988's arrived today from Germany, well packed and intact.

Date codes are no longer discernible, but they do differ from my clear bottles from '51/'52, having round getter frames vs rectangular, and small, flat extensions visible on top, besides being slightly taller, on brown bases.

Warming one up now, and it's a keeper.

The 4 horsemen:


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 11, 2019)

Nice!!

Just curious ...  How microphonic are your clear-glass Brimar CV-1988s?  I find mine very microphonic and audibly picks-up light keyboard typing transferred via my desk when listening via Lyr 3 -- even despite my addition of silicone feet to Lyr 3 and use of a Tubemonger silicon filled anti-vibration socket extender.  Curious if that's just the way they are or whether I have a partuclarly finicky one.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> Nice!!
> 
> Just curous ...  How microphonic are your clear-glass Brimar CV-1988s?  I find mine very microphonic and audibly picks-up light keyboard typing transferred via my desk when listening via Lyr 3 -- even despite my addition of silicone feet to Lyr 3 and use of a Tubemonger silicon filled anti-vibration socket extender.



These are all fairly microphonic, clearly transmitting taps on the Lyr chassis or plug insertions, even with the same extender. 

I think all my 6SN7's are microphonic to some degree, moreso than typical miniatures at any rate.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> I ordered one of the PSVane CV181t -II's yesterday.  If anyone had suggested I spend $75 on a Chinese small octal 6 months ago, it would have been hard to express my hysterical laughter electronically.  Funny how even old dogs can learn new tricks sometimes.



Please post your impressions when you get it. 
Where did you find it at that price?


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> What happens when the Lyr 4 comes out?


Schiit better keep using 6SN7 tube for the Lyr 4!!! Assuming they do - I will probably upgrade 



bcowen said:


> I ordered one of the PSVane CV181t -II's yesterday. If anyone had suggested I spend $75 on a Chinese small octal 6 months ago, it would have been hard to express my hysterical laughter electronically. Funny how even old dogs can learn new tricks sometimes.


Bill - I am curious how it compares to your favorite Franken 7N7s... Funny how after spending so much on tubes, $75 seems like "no big deal" anymore!


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Please post your impressions when you get it.
> Where did you find it at that price?



I will.  Coming from China so it will take a bit to get here. And I stretched things a bit...was only $70.67.  

Never bought from this seller before, but he's got tons of positive feedback.  But so does BangyBang.     Just hope it's the real deal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Classi...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> Brimar black bottle CV1988's arrived today from Germany, well packed and intact.
> 
> Date codes are no longer discernible, but they do differ from my clear bottles from '51/'52, having round getter frames vs rectangular, and small, flat extensions visible on top, besides being slightly taller, on brown bases.
> 
> ...



Sweet!!!!!!!!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Schiit better keep using 6SN7 tube for the Lyr 4!!! Assuming they do - I will probably upgrade



I'm hoping to see 300B's in the Lyr 4.  But that'll probably happen about the same time I see a new Ferrari in my driveway...that's not owned by someone else.  



Zachik said:


> Bill - I am curious how it compares to your favorite Franken 7N7s... Funny how after spending so much on tubes, $75 seems like "no big deal" anymore!


I could probably buy that Ferrari to put in the driveway with all the money I've spent on tubes over the years.  Sad kind of.  But only kind of.  Tube-liness is next to godliness.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Sweet!!!!!!!!



Very little time on the newly arrived Oldway bottles, but already I am duly impressed.


----------



## Ripper2860

Brimars Rock!  I don't care what @bcowen says.


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> I will.  Coming from China so it will take a bit to get here. And I stretched things a bit...was only $70.67.
> 
> Never bought from this seller before, but he's got tons of positive feedback.  But so does BangyBang.     Just hope it's the real deal.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Classic-Grade-Psvane-CV181-T-Mark-II-Vacuum-Tubes-Replace-CV181-6SN7-CV181-Z/264311777744?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649



This is the tube I use in my Saga preamp - it's fantastic!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Brimars Rock!  I don't care what @bcowen says.



Me either.


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> This is the tube I use in my Saga preamp - it's fantastic!



Good to know.  Looking forward to hearing it.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 12, 2019)

G0rt said:


> Very little time on the newly arrived Oldway bottles, but already I am duly impressed.


My favorite 6sn7 by far!  I love that tube.   Best soundstage, bass, and mids, I have heard in a 6sn7.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Me either.



And yet, his opinions do not (always) suck. 

Today, monitoring the warmup of one of the new Brimars, with well-known tracks and a very revealing and unforgiving HD800/SDR.

I've decided this one has already passed its initial break-in. I was told they'd had a few days test run before being retired, and I think that's very probably true.

My clear examples were unused, and changed significantly over the first 20 odd hours, from over-warm and compressed sounding to open, balanced and startlingly holographic. 

The newer gray plate took a few hours longer than the black plate, but both are now indistinguishable, to my old ears.

The NOS Brimar CV4033's I'm using in Mjolnir seemed to break in differently, going from brassy to slightly warm over only ~10 hours or so.

I have some NOS Brimar 6bq7a incoming to try in Valhalla. I understand those are quite nice as well. Those British made some very good American tubes.

And, since I heard some rumors, also incoming, a pair of Siemens ECC40,  just to see...


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> And yet, his opinions do not (always) suck.
> 
> Today, monitoring the warmup of one of the new Brimars, with well-known tracks and a very revealing and unforgiving HD800/SDR.
> 
> ...


Brimar made killer tubes, for sure.  I also love the Brimar CV2492/E88CC, in my Liquid Platinum.


----------



## malenak

Anyone with recommendations for good power source cables for Lyr3 with affordable prize?


----------



## G0rt

malenak said:


> Anyone with recommendations for good power source cables for Lyr3 with affordable prize?



FWIW, my Lyr3 is cabled with a 1m Pangea AC 14SE MkII. So's my Gungnir MB, Bifrost and Mjolnir. Improvement is most notable on the DACs.

My environment is quite noisy, though, with HVAC, lamp dimmers, plasma screens, computers, microwaves and radio gear, switching power supplies...

Shielded power cords and Furman filters do help, in my case, but unless you really have a noise problem, there may not be much benefit. YMMV.


----------



## Ripper2860

+1 for Pangea power cable


----------



## FLTWS

+2, even their cheapest are well made and use good materials, and they are the ones I use on everything.


----------



## Zachik

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069FLXLU/

Came highly recommended on a different thread. Unbelievable price for sure!


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> And yet, his opinions do not (always) suck.
> 
> Today, monitoring the warmup of one of the new Brimars, with well-known tracks and a very revealing and unforgiving HD800/SDR.
> 
> ...



@johnjen tried some of the Brimar 6BQ7's and I believe he was quite impressed.  I've never had any components that use that tube type so have never had reason to put a dent in the world supply.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> @johnjen tried some of the Brimar 6BQ7's and I believe he was quite impressed.  I've never had any components that use that tube type so have never had reason to put a dent in the world supply.



Cool. They're listed as a cross for 6BZ7, so thinking to try them in MJ2, or VH2 (my 'backup' system, paired with Bifrost 4490, and usually HD800S.)

Today, mindblown with the black bottled Lyr3, and the 24-bit studio master of David Helpling's new Rune release. Oh man.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> +2, even their cheapest are well made and use good materials, and they are the ones I use on everything.



I like to make my own cords for 2 reasons:

1) I can make them the exact length needed, so no cable spaghetti, and
2) I'm weird.


----------



## Ripper2860

Maybe next time you should let the wife help you pick the color scheme.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Maybe next time you should let the wife help you pick the color scheme.



She'd probably want pink, and I thought you already claimed that??


----------



## FLTWS

The Pangeas do come in several different lengths from 1/2 meter to 2 meters (maybe even longer?) so that helps with dress and not having too much excess length.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> 2) I'm weird.


No argument here... 



Ripper2860 said:


> Maybe next time you should let the wife help you pick the color scheme.


What times are we living in?!
I am actually in agreement with the Ripper!!!


----------



## Ripper2860

FLTWS said:


> The Pangeas do come in several different lengths from 1/2 meter to 2 meters (maybe even longer?) so that helps with dress and not having too much excess length.



Humor him, Frank.  Just humor him.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> What times are we living in?!
> I am actually in agreement with the Ripper!!!



Sorry to hear that you've suffered a debilitating decline in taste.  I can only hope it's temporary and you're able to heal completely.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Humor him, Frank.  Just humor him.



I didn't see anything in @FLTWS 's post that required humoring. Just kind of straight up factual.  But if you insist, I'll humor him.


----------



## Ripper2860

The intent of my post was to...

Never mind.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The intent of my post was to...
> 
> Never mind.



Does the green look better in a smaller diameter?    Yeah, I make those too, 'cause not even Pangea offers a 4" interconnect....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 13, 2019)

My monitor is not color calibrated, but if you send the cables to me I'll examine them closely and let you know what I think of their "true" color.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> My monitor is not color calibrated, but if you send the cables to me, I'll examine them closely and let you know what I think of their "true" color.



Now I finally understand what people mean by "xxx is adding color to my sound"!
Although people usually say that about an amp (and the Lyr only comes in silver)... 
This hobby is very confusing to me!


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> I like to make my own cords for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1) I can make them the exact length needed, so no cable spaghetti, and
> 2) I'm weird.


----------



## genck

G0rt said:


>


Klaatu barada nikto


----------



## JamminVMI

dematted said:


> Does anyone have experience with how this pairs with the HD 600?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if this amp is still killing headphones, or has Schiit fixed that?


No, it’s not a headphone killer. Full stop.

i have the MassDrop HD 6xx and it’s a wonderful match.


----------



## genck (Dec 14, 2019)

At one point, from my understanding, one of Schiit's amps - Lyr, Asgard? didn't have a protective circuit when turning the amp on with headphones plugged in. This was a long time ago and certainly nothing anyone needs to worry about now. It's kind of sad to keep bringing it up.


----------



## Ichos

So anyone compared Lyr 3 vs Asgard 3 for classical music listening?


----------



## malenak

G0rt said:


> FWIW, my Lyr3 is cabled with a 1m Pangea AC 14SE MkII. So's my Gungnir MB, Bifrost and Mjolnir. Improvement is most notable on the DACs.
> 
> My environment is quite noisy, though, with HVAC, lamp dimmers, plasma screens, computers, microwaves and radio gear, switching power supplies...
> 
> Shielded power cords and Furman filters do help, in my case, but unless you really have a noise problem, there may not be much benefit. YMMV.


Thank you for recommendation!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Now I finally understand what people mean by "xxx is adding color to my sound"!
> Although people usually say that about an amp (and the Lyr only comes in silver)...
> This hobby is very confusing to me!



Well, leave it to @Ripper2860 to make _everything_ confusing.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


>



Not a tube in sight.  No wonder he's getting only sparks.


----------



## tafens

Zachik said:


> Now I finally understand what people mean by "xxx is adding color to my sound"!
> Although people usually say that about an amp (and the Lyr only comes in silver)...



That makes a lot of sense actually. I think. 
I guess it follows that one would want a black amp for a “blacker background”, too 



Zachik said:


> This hobby is very confusing to me!



You and me both..


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Not a tube in sight.  No wonder he's getting only sparks.



But, but, sparks make the best transients, right?


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> Not a tube in sight.  No wonder he's getting only sparks.


He has a babe with him, but no tubes?! what a loser...


----------



## Ripper2860

And the babe seems a bit shocked and disappointed at his lack of a tube.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ichos said:


> So anyone compared Lyr 3 vs Asgard 3 for classical music listening?


Yes. I auditioned the Asgard (which is no slouch, btw), but found the Lyr 3 to be better overall (and tube rollable). I preferred Lyr for soundstage and overall definition, in the end. My listening goes from medieval (chant and other good vocal polyphony) through baroque and romantic (but never atonally modern) to  pop and rock. You truly won’t go wrong with either, but I prefer Lyr 3.


----------



## Ichos

Thanks for your impressions.
You should give atonal a try.
Some of them are really good.
Schoenberg and  Berg are great composers.


----------



## adydula

Lyr 3 on the way!!

Alex


----------



## Ripper2860

Excellent choice!


----------



## JamminVMI

adydula said:


> Lyr 3 on the way!!
> 
> Alex


Welcome (almost) to the happy place!


----------



## adydula (Mar 18, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> Excellent choice!


Well we have been a Schiit fanboy since the beginning, but we have several other amps   14 now!!

Asgard 1, Lyr 1, Vahalla 2, Magni 3, Jotenheim, and now Lyr 3.

Have a BH Crack, just sold BH Mainline, O2's several variants, Cmoy several variants, ODA desktop, Burson Fun, Hagerman Audio parafeed Tuba EL84, ODA desktop, Pete Millets Butte, OPA 1688 DIY (2 yrs before Schiit Magni 3+), and others I just forget!!

After playing with the Lyr 3 I will most likely sell some stuff..

Life is short!!
Enjoy the Music
Alex


----------



## adydula

Recently I bought a Parafeed amp called Tuba from Jim Hageman in Hawaii...which is close to a 10 of a tube amp Iever heard...so I am really anticipating testing it with the Lyr 3.

I got a matched set of EL84's from Upscale Audio made in Yugoslavia, back in the 80s' that didnt cost an arm and a leg, its the first time a set of tubes to my ear have really made a really noticeable difference...

So for the Lyr 3 I will start with whatever is in the box. Some friends who have the Lyr 3 tell me the Sylvania 3 hole "Bad Boys" is the tube for the Lyr 3....anyone here use this tube?

Alex


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Recently I bought a Parafeed amp called Tuba from Jim Hageman in Hawaii...which is close to a 10 of a tube amp Iever heard...so I am really anticipating testing it with the Lyr 3.
> 
> I got a matched set of EL84's from Upscale Audio made in Yugoslavia, back in the 80s' that didnt cost an arm and a leg, its the first time a set of tubes to my ear have really made a really noticeable difference...
> 
> ...



I have a few Bad Boys. Nice tubes.  I prefer the tall bottle Sylvania 6SN7W's to them myself though.  I think once you get into the upper echelon of NOS tubes (where both those reside) that personal preference will be far more important than the overall chatter about any particular tube's merit.


----------



## AudioProm

adydula said:


> Recently I bought a Parafeed amp called Tuba from Jim Hageman in Hawaii...which is close to a 10 of a tube amp Iever heard...so I am really anticipating testing it with the Lyr 3.
> 
> I got a matched set of EL84's from Upscale Audio made in Yugoslavia, back in the 80s' that didnt cost an arm and a leg, its the first time a set of tubes to my ear have really made a really noticeable difference...
> 
> ...



I'm using Sylvania Bad Boy with Lyr3 at the moment. In my opinion, I think it's a direct upgrade to the default JJ 6SN7. The JJ will open up the sound stage after 50+ hrs burn-in and they're both quite comparable however, the imaging is superior with SBB. It's lean to more of a neutral and clean sounding while the JJ has a bit of harshness to its delivery. I think it sounds best when paired up with a warm headphones. It balances out the lows and brings the highs a bit forward without any harshness. 

Just for reference, my current favorite chains are the following:
1. Bifrost2 - Lyr3(Psvane CV181-T Mk.2) - Verite Open(Perf. Universe Suede)
2. Bifrost2 - Lyr3(Sylvania Bad Boy) - Verite Open(Perf. Universe Hybrid Lambskin/Suede)


----------



## bcowen

AudioProm said:


> I'm using Sylvania Bad Boy with Lyr3 at the moment. In my opinion, I think it's a direct upgrade to the default JJ 6SN7. The JJ will open up the sound stage after 50+ hrs burn-in and they're both quite comparable however, the imaging is superior with SBB. It's lean to more of a neutral and clean sounding while the JJ has a bit of harshness to its delivery. I think it sounds best when paired up with a warm headphones. It balances out the lows and brings the highs a bit forward without any harshness.
> 
> Just for reference, my current favorite chains are the following:
> 1. Bifrost2 - Lyr3(Psvane CV181-T Mk.2) - Verite Open(Perf. Universe Suede)
> 2. Bifrost2 - Lyr3(Sylvania Bad Boy) - Verite Open(Perf. Universe Hybrid Lambskin/Suede)



I like the PSvane quite a bit. My favorite so far in another amp I've been listening to, and it sounds great in the Vali 2, um, too.   Not cheap, but appears to be very nicely constructed.


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> I like the PSvane quite a bit. My favorite so far in another amp I've been listening to, and it sounds great in the Vali 2, um, too.   Not cheap, but appears to be very nicely constructed.



Very nice! My favorite 6SN7 tube - I prefer it to all the vintage tubes that I have for my Saga.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> I like the PSvane quite a bit. My favorite so far in another amp I've been listening to, and it sounds great in the Vali 2, um, too.   Not cheap, but appears to be very nicely constructed.


Bill, you need a wider and heavier amp, to prevent it from toppling over........
I know!!!! Lyr 3


----------



## kiwivda

bcowen said:


> I like the PSvane quite a bit. My favorite so far in another amp I've been listening to, and it sounds great in the Vali 2, um, too.   Not cheap, but appears to be very nicely constructed.







My fovourite too!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Bill, you need a wider and heavier amp, to prevent it from toppling over........
> I know!!!! Lyr 3



Better?


----------



## AudioProm

bcowen said:


> I like the PSvane quite a bit. My favorite so far in another amp I've been listening to, and it sounds great in the Vali 2, um, too.   Not cheap, but appears to be very nicely constructed.



 That looks ridiculous, and awesome at the same time. I agree on the price, specially the highest grade one.

I had a mixed feeling about this tube initially. It sounds pretty good with Hifiman Ananda but quite a hot mess with HD6XX and Verite open + Perf. universe lambskin on some acoustic tracks. Specially with those bad Piano recordings with exaggerated reverb. Once I paired the Verite with the suede pads though, the combo turns into my favorite. I guess suede material calms the chain quite a bit. Damn synergy


----------



## Mike-WI

adydula said:


> Well we have been a Schiit fanboy since the beginning, but we have several other amps   14 now!!
> 
> Asgard 1, Lyr 1, *Vahalla 3*, Magni 3, Jotenheim, and now Lyr 3.
> 
> ...


Valhalla 3 ?


----------



## adydula

ooops. Not supposed to announce new products eh !! ?? !! 

:>)


----------



## adydula

??


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Better?


Curious what amp that is?  Looks cool!


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> ??



A '65 Foton.  Not bad, but not noteworthy either.  The '50's manufacture dates are significantly better (IMO).


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Curious what amp that is?  Looks cool!



It's a prototype of a design being made by a friend.  Not a commercial product at this point but who knows where it may go.


----------



## adydula

I think thats the new Schiit Vahalla 3!!!!!


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> It's a prototype of a design being made by a friend.  Not a commercial product at this point but who knows where it may go.


Cool!


----------



## adydula (Mar 18, 2020)

From the place I bought this 6BQ5:

*Russian 6H8C/6SN7* - 1960's vintage. These are sooooo cool. I got these from a guy who actually found them in a warehouse in Brazil... in the jungle. When I opened the musty boxes, I felt so much like Nikita Kruschev I almost started pounding my shoe on the table! Low noise and microphonics, great air and detail, excellent bass. Not as thin sounding as some of the later production 6H8C tubes you see being used as stock tubes in some gear.

How could I not buy "1" with a technical description that these are sooooooo cool!!

:>)


----------



## Wes S

adydula said:


> From the place I bought this 6BQ5:
> 
> *Russian 6H8C/6SN7* - 1960's vintage. These are sooooo cool. I got these from a guy who actually found them in a warehouse in Brazil... in the jungle. When I opened the musty boxes, I felt so much like Nikita Kruschev I almost started pounding my shoe on the table! Low noise and microphonics, great air and detail, excellent bass. Not as thin sounding as some of the later production 6H8C tubes you see being used as stock tubes in some gear.
> 
> ...


I bought one of those from Upscale too, but never really liked it in the Lyr 3, compared to the Brimar, Westinghouse D Getter, and Bad Boy.  Kevin knows how to sell tubes.


----------



## Odin412

Wes S said:


> I bought one of those from Upscale too, but never really liked it in the Lyr 3, compared to the Brimar, Westinghouse D Getter, and Bad Boy.  Kevin knows how to sell tubes.



I bought one too. It's a bit on the bright side for me, but the treble is very clean and extended. It's not rough or grating at all; there's just a bit too much of it for my taste.


----------



## Wes S

Odin412 said:


> I bought one too. It's a bit on the bright side for me, but the treble is very clean and extended. It's not rough or grating at all; there's just a bit too much of it for my taste.


Same issues for me.


----------



## adydula

Stay tuned!! 

I wasnt pressured at all by them to buy this tube....its my "sixth sense" LOL!!
At least I didnt buy a Kevins stash priced one!!


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> I bought one too. It's a bit on the bright side for me, but the treble is very clean and extended. It's not rough or grating at all; there's just a bit too much of it for my taste.



Even the '50's dates are somewhat forward sounding in the mids. But the treble is fantastic -- not overdone or tilted in that direction, just very clean and completely un-fatiguing even at stupid-loud volumes. Neither vintage is an end-game tube IMO, but for cheap tubes (at least back when they _were_ cheap) they hit well above their price. For rock and metal they're my go-to tube as they really help showcase my air guitar abilities.   Note with many of the 50's (and maybe even 60's) there's a chance that the solder in the pins has degraded (or either wasn't done well to begin with). I would imagine Kevin screens those out, but if you're buying off of Ebay, best to have a soldering iron handy.


----------



## adydula

Oh!!  I have soldering iron(S) handy!!  :>)

The low cost RCA's I got off Ebay, NOS NIB both test strong, used them few days in an amp and work very well....several years apart in manufacture. Look identical from outside the tube...:>)


----------



## adydula

Lyr 3 has arrived its up and running with the included Tungsol 6SN7 tube...first impressions are this is a really clean amp....takes control of the Focal Clears with authority on low gain...bass is sublime....high end is really crisp here....listening to Jamie Cullum Twenty Sommething, Love You Should Have Come Over..cymbols are really crisp and trebly like in real life...

Rebecca Pidgeon, The Raven, You Got Me, very holographic.....really nice.

Very quiet, I hear no hiss with volume all the way up low or high gain with 55 Ohm cans...

This amp sounds like a really good SS amp!!! Ha!

How can this be?

More later...

:>)

Alex


----------



## adydula

Listened for an hour with Focal Clears and now with HD600's...

This amp IMO is not your typicaly euphonic tube amp...its VERY clear, crisp...and light saber accurate to me....

Whatever you put into it comes out...good or bad...

You may or may not like that!! For me its really good..like a reference amp.

Listening to some old Joni Mitchell and I listed to this a million times, but here goes the old cliche I am hearing stuff that I have not readily
heard "well" before....the fingers on the guitar strings sliding across etc....just amazed me at the articulation here....

No problem driving the HD600s out of this universe! LOL...looking forward to some direct comparisons to other amps here in the next few days and some other NOS tubes I have
acquired...

:>)


----------



## adydula

Early conclusion:

Bifrost 2 + Lyr3 + Focal Clears = Close to perfection here!

Why:

Any recording I play, I can instantly tell if its recorded well, or HOW its recorded, placement of mics, soundstange, absolutely uncanny accuracy in placement of stuff…and you can tell how well they did or HOW they did it…stunning IMO.

Listened to some real low freq organ music…and its like listening to speakers but actually better, ie more accurate…the Clears really surprised me here.

Add the tranasparency, articulation, tonality, gosh its just sublime.

Yes there are other “better” cans and gear but at this total price point its simply amazing to me.

And we dont have any expensive NOS tubes in “yet”?

Back to listening!

Alex


----------



## Ripper2860

Welcome to audio NIRVANA, Alex.


----------



## adydula

What do I do with the other amps now!!!??!!!

:>)


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 20, 2020)

Gift them to folks that are just starting their audio journey.  On second thought, just sell them to fund your unavoidable tube rolling addiction!!


----------



## AudioProm

adydula said:


> What do I do with the other amps now!!!??!!!
> 
> :>)



I brought mine to the office. Trickle down action at its finest.


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> What do I do with the other amps now!!!??!!!
> 
> :>)



And people make fun of me for having too many tubes.  I feel somewhat exonerated now.


----------



## adydula

Ha..

So I started taking pix to sell stuff...but I have to turn them on and play them to make sure they still function etc...
and..what happens...my brain says "Why are you selling this great little amp!" oh my its an addiction for sure..

Anyway some are going up for sale soon!

Alex


----------



## bcowen (Mar 21, 2020)

adydula said:


> Ha..
> 
> So I started taking pix to sell stuff...but I have to turn them on and play them to make sure they still function etc...
> and..what happens...my brain says "Why are you selling this great little amp!" oh my its an addiction for sure..
> ...



Riiiiiiight.  And I'll be selling some of my tubes too.  Soon.  Yup.  Real soon.  

Every time I try to climb out of the rabbit hole I stumble across something like this. Becomes a "why try" kinda thing. LOL!


----------



## Monahans67

Are those 4 more fotons.  Dang Bill enough is enough. LOL


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Are those 4 more fotons.  Dang Bill enough is enough. LOL



Yes, Fotons.  Sigh.  Such is the danger of an Ebay watch list. On the plus side, including the shipping and tax it works out to $5.0575 per tube which is the least I've ever paid for '50's Fotons.  And on the other plus side, like money and hand sanitizer there's no such thing as too many Fotons. Sort of.


----------



## Monahans67

I have one of those Fotons rocking right now as a matter of fact.  I really can't believe more people on this site don't really like them.  I think they are one of the best buys around for the Lyr 3.  I have four and if I could have found that deal I would have had 8, LOL.  You luck bugger you!!!!!


----------



## Ripper2860

They are good and at one time plentiful and cheap.  I'll just sit pat on my 8...


----------



## Monahans67

Come on Ripper you need to man up!!!!!  It is embarrassing that you have more Barbie Dolls then Fotons.  LOL  Speaking of that do you remember the place in Russia they were ordering the Fotons.  I need a few more too.


----------



## Monahans67

Hey Bill what is the difference between the 6N8C and the 6H8C?


----------



## Ripper2860

Monahans67 said:


> Hey Bill what is the difference between the 6N8C and the 6H8C?



One will make your amp go 'poof' and the other won't.  I'll let you figure out which does what.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Hey Bill what is the difference between the 6N8C and the 6H8C?



Nothing. 6H8C is the Russian alphabet for the English 6N8S.  Same tube.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 21, 2020)

Dammit Bill.  I almost had him!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 21, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> Come on Ripper you need to man up!!!!!  It is embarrassing that you have more Barbie Dolls then Fotons.  LOL  Speaking of that do you remember the place in Russia they were ordering the Fotons.  I need a few more too.



You scoff, but until you've cuddled with a life-sized Barbie Benton doll, you haven't lived!!  

Re: Foton tubes: I bought mine from a fellow on eBay.  Can't recall his moniker, but I'm sure Bill can.  Last I heard Bill bought all that guy had.  The Russian then closed shop, bought a tropical island, and retired.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Come on Ripper you need to man up!!!!!  It is embarrassing that you have more Barbie Dolls then Fotons.  LOL  Speaking of that do you remember the place in Russia they were ordering the Fotons.  I need a few more too.



Short of finding a steal, this is about the best deal going for '50's vintage ones. Not ribbed plate, but those are getting very hard to find. I've purchased a couple times from this seller with good results, and he will discount the shipping if you order more than a pair

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-6N8S-...645882?hash=item23cc316a3a:g:zcMAAOSwY9pd3OhS


----------



## Monahans67

I am going to have to sharpen up. You guys are tough. LOL


----------



## Monahans67

Thanks Bill I will give them a look.  As for Mr. Jack the Ripper all I can say is I am at least glad it is a female doll.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Thanks Bill I will give them a look.  As for Mr. Jack the Ripper all I can say is I am at least glad it is a female doll.



Rumor has it they're not _all_ female.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 21, 2020)

Well, yeah!!  'Clubber' is the Bouncer at my Barbie Benton Night Club (formerly my oldest kid's bedroom).  It has a velvet rope, disco ball, stage and even a VIP section for the tube high-rollers. Sorry, @bcowen -- you're not on the list.


----------



## Monahans67

I really don't have anything to add to all that.  For once in a long while I am speechless.  Geez I gotta get sharper...…..


----------



## Ripper2860

My work here is done.


----------



## Monahans67

Man you guys are fun!!!!


Ripper2860 said:


> My work here is done.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Short of finding a steal, this is about the best deal going for '50's vintage ones. Not ribbed plate, but those are getting very hard to find. I've purchased a couple times from this seller with good results, and he will discount the shipping if you order more than a pair
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-6N8S-...645882?hash=item23cc316a3a:g:zcMAAOSwY9pd3OhS



Better hurry, seems to have only five pairs left..oh, wait. Three pairs.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Better hurry, seems to have only five pairs left..oh, wait. Three pairs.



I'll leave them for you guys.  Way too expensive for me.


----------



## Monahans67

Yeah you lucky  guy.  I did order a pair of those.  He did charge me more because he offered a de-corona spray with mine.  LOL


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Yeah you lucky  guy.  I did order a pair of those.  He did charge me more because he offered a de-corona spray with mine.  LOL



LOL!  I guess as far as tubes go, Russia is one of the safest places to buy from right now.  No doubt they're telling the truth about how many cases they actually have.


----------



## Monahans67

Duh, they have the spray.  Told you!!!!!!


----------



## G0rt




----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


>


I take the one on the far right.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> I take the one on the far right.



Good eye!  Her favorite...


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


>



Hoarder.


----------



## Ripper2860

I see that @G0rt is flaunting his wealth in this Covid-19 world.  How tacky.


----------



## Ripper2860




----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> I see that @G0rt is flaunting his wealth in this Covid-19 world.  How tacky.



Will trade for rare tubes, of course.


----------



## genck

WTT toilet paper for rare tubes, lol


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Hoarder.



If you don't take care of both ends of the signal chain, bad things happen.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> Will trade for rare tubes, of course.



Remember who you're responding to.  All you'll get offered from @Ripper2860 are GE's.  Some could potentially be rare, but only because people have been throwing them in the garbage for years.


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> Remember who you're responding to.  All you'll get offered from @Ripper2860 are GE's.  Some could potentially be rare, but only because people have been throwing them in the garbage for years.


If I am not mistaken that guy with the toilet paper is the same guy I saw in the basement at Ripper's house playing "Where's my Barbie" with Ripper.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> If I am not mistaken that guy with the toilet paper is the same guy I saw in the basement at Ripper's house playing "Where's my Barbie" with Ripper.



That's not happy.  Potential conspiracy unfolding here?


----------



## Monahans67

Yeah I tell you it was shocking!!! I got out of there real quick. LOL


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Yeah I tell you it was shocking!!! I got out of there real quick. LOL



You were there?!?  OMG.  Please tell me you disinfected thoroughly after leaving?


----------



## Monahans67

Yeah I jumped in his tub real quick with the 30 gallons of Lysol he has in it.


----------



## Ripper2860

Pine-sol.  It's Pine-sol.  You guys really need to improve on your reading comprehension and retention.


----------



## Monahans67

Well I must have got some in my eyes and didnt see it right cause that's all I could think of to do....


----------



## G0rt

Monahans67 said:


> If I am not mistaken that guy with the toilet paper is the same guy I saw in the basement at Ripper's house playing "Where's my Barbie" with Ripper.


----------



## Ripper2860

G0rt for the win!!!!!


----------



## adydula (Mar 23, 2020)

Well they aren't bad boys, but for $25 they were a great deal to me and they work great!! 6SN7GTB's


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Well they aren't bad boys, but for $25 they were a great deal to me and they work great!! 6SN7GTB's



I love cheap tubes.  It's almost like going to Wal-Mart without having to go to Wal-Mart.


----------



## adydula

and they all work!


----------



## adydula

I have  knight 600 tube tester but dont have the settings to test these 6SN7's....looked everywhere but nada!!

Help!


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> I have  knight 600 tube tester but dont have the settings to test these 6SN7's....looked everywhere but nada!!
> 
> Help!



Here you go, assuming this matches your tester. Download and open '600tables.pdf.'  No settings for a 6SN7, but has settings for a VT231 which is the same thing. 

http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/knight/600tube/tables


----------



## flailure

Just got a lyr 3 and while I am very happy with it and I could regale you with just how amazing it is, its got one flaw that is making it hard to be subjective.  Too forgiving, I have listened to quite a bit of my collection thus far, trying to get a feel for it, and some of my collection is not high quality or just downright harsh.  And while I can tell when one of those less than ideal recordings is playing, this amp somehow manages to make them sound shockingly good, way smoother than I have ever heard them.  The detail is there, I can still hear the flaws of the recording right down to the grit, they simply smooth the sound just enough where I can actually enjoy the tracks, perhaps for the first time in a long time.

I don't know how that makes me feel, how can it be so revealing and so forgiving at the same time.  I feel there should be a trade off somewhere, I am not used to getting everything I want in one setup.  Only negatives that I can put my finger on thus far is more bass than I am used to (not necessarily a bad thing, its very clean bass) and a slightly narrow and close soundstage.  While I feel the soundstage is somewhat narrow, its still distinct enough to be satisfying, like standing right at the front of the orchestra at the edge of the stage.  Guess I will keep listening and enjoying.  Definitely can see myself keeping this one for a while though.


----------



## Ichos

Tube magic!


----------



## tafens

flailure said:


> Just got a lyr 3 and while I am very happy with it and I could regale you with just how amazing it is, its got one flaw that is making it hard to be subjective. Too forgiving, I have listened to quite a bit of my collection thus far, trying to get a feel for it, and some of my collection is not high quality or just downright harsh. And while I can tell when one of those less than ideal recordings is playing, this amp somehow manages to make them sound shockingly good, way smoother than I have ever heard them. The detail is there, I can still hear the flaws of the recording right down to the grit, they simply smooth the sound just enough where I can actually enjoy the tracks, perhaps for the first time in a long time.



One of two things; dac or tube. The Lyr3 responds very well to changes in either.
The internal dac card for example, to my ears at least, is smoother and less clear than the Bifrost2 for example.


----------



## Ichos

When I reviewed the Lyr 3 I found the internal multibit dac card to be holding the amp back.
Lyr 3 can do much much better with external upstream dac.


----------



## Monahans67

First Welcome to the maddening world of tubes "flailur" (LOL).   I agree with Ichos on this.  I have the Bifrost and the person I bought it from had sent it in to have the Multibit installed.  When it is in the chain with the Lyr 3 I think it is amazing.  I am not near as knowledgeable as some on this thread  and some will be chiming in I am sure to give you help.  Welcome aboard and the best advice I can give is Welcome aboard and stay safe.  Enjoy it and take it one step at a time.  You already know how good the sound is and are probably striving to make it even better.  You are on the right track here.


----------



## Monahans67

If a guy named "Ripper" tries to sell you toilet paper don't buy it.  He keeps it in his basement and it is "Used".  Believe me he is a tube and TP hoarder.


----------



## bcowen

flailure said:


> Just got a lyr 3 and while I am very happy with it and I could regale you with just how amazing it is, *its got one flaw* that is making it hard to be subjective.  Too forgiving, I have listened to quite a bit of my collection thus far, trying to get a feel for it, and some of my collection is not high quality or just downright harsh.  And while I can tell when one of those less than ideal recordings is playing, this amp somehow manages to make them sound shockingly good, way smoother than I have ever heard them.  The detail is there, I can still hear the flaws of the recording right down to the grit, they simply smooth the sound just enough where I can actually enjoy the tracks, perhaps for the first time in a long time.



Flaw?  Or feature?


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> If a guy named "Ripper" tries to sell you toilet paper don't buy it.  He keeps it in his basement and it is "Used".  Believe me he is a tube and TP hoarder.



Add tubes to the TP warning. Any he tries to sell are probably re-silkscreened GE's.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 28, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> If a guy named "Ripper" tries to sell you toilet paper don't buy it.  He keeps it in his basement and it is "Used".  Believe me he is a tube and TP hoarder.



Geez. Keep up, @Monahans67 .  TP is soooo yesterday.   Moist flush-able wipes are what's in now.   



bcowen said:


> Add tubes to the TP warning. Any he tries to sell are probably re-silkscreened GE's.



Considering I bought most of my tubes from you, what's that say?


----------



## Monahans67

It's so hard at 72 years old to keep anything "UP" but I will try my best, LOL


----------



## Ripper2860

TMI!!!


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> It's so hard at 72 years old to keep anything "UP" but I will try my best, LOL



@Ripper2860 has some Barbie dolls that might help. I mean, ol course, if you're into that kind of thing. But due caution advised regardless on the 'used' thing.


----------



## Monahans67

Geez Ripper I meant keep up with taxes, honey doos, blood pressure medication, doctor appointments, etc. LOL


----------



## Ripper2860

Thank goodness.  I was going to suggest you and @bcowen form a support group for the 'erectile less-fortunate'.  I promised his wife I would encourage him to seek help and thought you two could share your experiences and frustrations.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Thank goodness.  I was going to suggest you and @bcowen form a support group for the 'erectile less-fortunate'.  I promised his wife I would encourage him to seek help and thought you two could share your experiences and frustrations.


Even with a support group it would be impossible to get the thought and vision out of our head of what could POSSIBLY be in that basement of yours.  The picture of the toilet paper man and the vast collection of Barbie Dolls is just too devastating. Thanks Ripper you have ruined any hope of normalcy for us.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Thank goodness.  I was going to suggest you and @bcowen form a support group for the 'erectile less-fortunate'.  I promised his wife I would encourage him to seek help and thought you two could share your experiences and frustrations.



I already have a support, um, _device_ as you already noted in the other thread. But that was yesterday, and you've probably already forgotten that by now.


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> Flaw?  Or feature?



I would argue that's a feature, and a very desirable one at that. There's plenty of gear that highlights any and all flaws in the recording; it's much harder to find gear that is revealing enough to be interesting but forgiving enough to be enjoyable.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 28, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> Considering I bought most of my tubes from you, what's that say?



In that case, strike 'probably.'


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Geez. Keep up, @Monahans67 . TP is soooo yesterday. Moist flush-able wipes are what's in now.


what's tomorrow then? Toilet plungers to de-clog the pipes from the wipes?


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> I would argue that's a feature, and a very desirable one at that. There's plenty of gear that highlights any and all flaws in the recording; it's much harder to find gear that is revealing enough to be interesting but forgiving enough to be enjoyable.




+1 on that!


----------



## bcowen (Mar 28, 2020)

Zachik said:


> what's tomorrow then? Toilet plungers to de-clog the pipes from the wipes?



I'm guessing hydrochloric acid, as it won't be long before the RipperVirus develops resistance to all currently effective disinfectants.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 28, 2020)

Zachik said:


> what's tomorrow then? Toilet plungers to de-clog the pipes from the wipes?



Cats.  Soft, fluffy cats. 



Odin412 said:


> I would argue that's a feature, and a very desirable one at that. There's plenty of gear that highlights any and all flaws in the recording; it's much harder to find gear that is revealing enough to be interesting but forgiving enough to be enjoyable.



OK -- getting back on track.  YES. Definitely a feature.  As far as soundstage goes (as well as other sonic attributes), you'd be amazed at how much rolling tubes can contribute to 'tweaking' to ones personal preferences.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Cats.  Soft, fluffy cats.
> 
> 
> 
> OK -- getting back on track.  YES. Definitely a feature.  As far as soundstage goes (as well as other sonic attributes), you'd be amazed at how much rolling tubes can contribute to 'tweaking' to ones personal preferences.


See Bill that's the "hook" to sell more silk printed GE tubes, lol.


----------



## tafens

Odin412 said:


> I would argue that's a feature, and a very desirable one at that. There's plenty of gear that highlights any and all flaws in the recording; it's much harder to find gear that is revealing enough to be interesting but forgiving enough to be enjoyable.



I find the combination of Lyr3 and Bifrost2 exquisite. It’s amazing how it can have so much detail and clarity, yet still be smooth and musical.
High resolution multibit magic and tube magic combined, it must be 

I was thinking that some day I would upgrade to the Yggdrasil, but now I’m hesitant; it might be too revealing and lose in smoothness.


----------



## Monahans67

tafens said:


> I find the combination of Lyr3 and Bifrost2 exquisite. It’s amazing how it can have so much detail and clarity, yet still be smooth and musical.
> High resolution multibit magic and tube magic combined, it must be
> 
> I was thinking that some day I would upgrade to the Yggdrasil, but now I’m hesitant; it might be too revealing and lose in smoothness.


That's exactly how I hear it.  Absolutely stunning to me.


----------



## Monahans67 (Mar 28, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> That's exactly how I hear it.  Absolutely stunning to me.


This is how I looked after hearing it......
and after I read some of Rippers comments.  LOL See if tapping on the photo opens the giff.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> This is how I looked after hearing it......and after I read some of Rippers comments.  LOL See if tapping on the photo opens the giff.



ROFL!!  Yes, clicking on the photo works.  Tried tapping it first, but nothing happened.  Probably a setting in my laptop.


----------



## flailure

Apologies, I call it a flaw now, but it may become a feature for me as I listen and adjust.  Most of my experiences with higher fidelity headphones (or I guess it would be middle fidelity now with all the of the expensive options) have always pursued as flat and analytical a listening experience as possible.  The only tube amp I ever had back before I had to sell everything for my wife's eye surgeries was a woo audio wa22 paired with a hd800 and it was fairly flat and neutral, of course that was years ago and its been a long time since I have been able to make any solid purchases since then.  For a while there I just had a pair of vmoda headphones, which came in handy at the hospital anyways (I spent a lot of time in waiting rooms and recovery rooms back in those days and the isolation of having closed headphones was welcome).  Been a slow climb back and I took a different route to get here, got a used pair of lcd2f, then a used fiio dap and a hifiman he5se and I made do with those for a while, added a pair of beyer dt880 which was closer to what I was used to but I ended up giving that pair to a friend.  And then this year he gave me a modi multibit and loki, so I managed to purchase the lyr 3 to complete that chain.  Definitely don't mean to complain, been a long time since I've listened to good clear and revealing audio, I've been spending the last few weeks listening to most of my favorite pieces, but it may be that subconsciously I have been chasing the sounds I was used to.  It is really good though, and I will keep enjoying it and most likely be content for a while.  Listening to it, I very well may end up enjoying it more than before and maybe because it is so forgiving.  I queued up a particularly bad recording I have, holst the planets composed on a moog synthesizer (not the tomita composition, one of the older ones and unauthorized hence the really bad recording), and even though its a digital copy of a cassette tape which itself came from a record (like I said, very poor quality) it may be the first time I have been able to enjoy it.  May find a few more gems like that as I go through my collection.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 29, 2020)

flailure said:


> I queued up a particularly bad recording I have, holst the planets composed on a moog synthesizer (not the tomita composition, one of the older ones and unauthorized hence the really bad recording), and even though its a digital copy of a cassette tape which itself came from a record (like I said, very poor quality) it may be the first time I have been able to enjoy it.



We all have different goals, priorities, and desires for the systems we assemble and listen to, and of course there is no universal right or wrong. At the end of the day, all that really matters is what's 'right' for the individual. For me (and again, this is just *my* approach and certainly _*not*_ intended as a proclamation) what's 'right' is what allows me to engage and immerse myself in the music to the fullest extent. I spent many years with my 2 channel rig venturing further and further down the rabbit hole in search of higher accuracy and more resolution and increased faithfulness to the bits or waveform of the recording. But as the gains in those areas continued to evolve, a funny thing happened -- my musical enjoyment began to diminish at a nearly proportional rate. The flaws in an ever-increasing number of recordings began to stand out in a way that made them hard to listen to. I enjoyed listening to music less and less, and one day it finally dawned on me that I was only listening to the equipment.  Music itself had become nothing more than a bunch of test tones to evaluate the system with.  Due to domestic changes and considerations at the time I ended up getting rid of it all save for a couple pieces that I just couldn't bear to part with (like my Jota tube amp).  Fast forward 10 years and I had the opportunity to begin reassembling the system, but my approach was entirely different. Hard to believe that I now have a pair of $1k speakers using (of all things) a pair of whizzer cone drivers that were intended for use in inexpensive guitar amps. And I'm having a blast.  Are they as technically correct or achieved as the $15k pair I used to have? Nope. Not even close. But when I listen, my foot taps, I get goose bumps, I reach for the air guitar, and I get involved in the music and can totally immerse myself in it. Even (or especially?) with those flawed recordings that had become unenjoyable in the past.  Thus my question: is the Lyr's presentation a flaw or a feature? While it may be a flaw to you and perhaps many others, to me it's most definitely a feature. Which perspective and approach is correct?  Quite simply, both.  Or whichever brings about the most musical enjoyment to the person listening.


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 29, 2020)

bcowen said:


> ... But as the gains in those areas continued to evolve, a funny thing happened -- my musical enjoyment began to diminish at a nearly proportional rate. The flaws in an ever-increasing number of recordings began to stand out in a way that made them hard to listen to. I enjoyed listening to music less and less, and one day it finally dawned on me that I was only listening to the equipment.  ...



That's the heart of the matter and when I was completely out of high-end audio from Jan. 2004 to Jan 2016 I did not miss it. I spent all the excess cash I saved by climbing out of the rabbit hole and not spending it on over-priced, unsatisfying gear but instead on concert tickets and golf  and fishing trips.

Then along came Schiit.


----------



## Monahans67

flailure said:


> Apologies, I call it a flaw now, but it may become a feature for me as I listen and adjust.  Most of my experiences with higher fidelity headphones (or I guess it would be middle fidelity now with all the of the expensive options) have always pursued as flat and analytical a listening experience as possible.  The only tube amp I ever had back before I had to sell everything for my wife's eye surgeries was a woo audio wa22 paired with a hd800 and it was fairly flat and neutral, of course that was years ago and its been a long time since I have been able to make any solid purchases since then.  For a while there I just had a pair of vmoda headphones, which came in handy at the hospital anyways (I spent a lot of time in waiting rooms and recovery rooms back in those days and the isolation of having closed headphones was welcome).  Been a slow climb back and I took a different route to get here, got a used pair of lcd2f, then a used fiio dap and a hifiman he5se and I made do with those for a while, added a pair of beyer dt880 which was closer to what I was used to but I ended up giving that pair to a friend.  And then this year he gave me a modi multibit and loki, so I managed to purchase the lyr 3 to complete that chain.  Definitely don't mean to complain, been a long time since I've listened to good clear and revealing audio, I've been spending the last few weeks listening to most of my favorite pieces, but it may be that subconsciously I have been chasing the sounds I was used to.  It is really good though, and I will keep enjoying it and most likely be content for a while.  Listening to it, I very well may end up enjoying it more than before and maybe because it is so forgiving.  I queued up a particularly bad recording I have, holst the planets composed on a moog synthesizer (not the tomita composition, one of the older ones and unauthorized hence the really bad recording), and even though its a digital copy of a cassette tape which itself came from a record (like I said, very poor quality) it may be the first time I have been able to enjoy it.  May find a few more gems like that as I go through my collection.


Man you have been through it or sure.  My first impression is I hope your wife is all healed and beyond the stuff that had to be treated.  My wife too has had alot of eye problems, Karataconus, macular degeneration and detached retina and cataract surgery in both eyes.  .  She is still going through it but we will get through it together.  My heart goes out to you and your family.  I fully understand your feeling that music and finding a peace is why they say music is rest for the soul.  I too had to sell stuff and start all over and have now found that without spending a lot of money I am happy with the Schiit Bifrost (added multibit) and the Lyr 3 that any headphone I throw at it will sound great to me.  You will eventually start the tube rolling and that in itself is a real experience in itself. I fully understand that family comes first and sometimes we have to do whatever it takes to take care of family.  I am sure you can ask any questions on this site and get a lot of answers .  I have proven you can even ask stupid questions and these guys are willing to help in any way they can.  Welcome aboard for the ride.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> Then along came Schiit.



Big ditto on that.  I have 7 pieces of Schiit and greatly enjoy every single one of them.  The fact that this enjoyment can be had for so little money is what really makes my head spin (well, more than usual).


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> I have proven you can even ask stupid questions and these guys are willing to help in any way they can.



We became immune after @Ripper2860 .   

(seriously, didn't mean to diminish the rest of your post that was quite excellent)


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> Big ditto on that.  I have 7 pieces of Schiit and greatly enjoy every single one of them.  The fact that this enjoyment can be had for so little money is what really makes my head spin (well, more than usual).


Maybe we can change your name to "Spinner" then we will have Spinner and Ripper.  Wow


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> Maybe we can change your name to "Spinner" then we will have Spinner and Ripper.  Wow



I prefer "Sir" or "Mr. Sir," but that's entirely subjective of course.


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> I prefer "Sir" or "Mr. Sir," but that's entirely subjective of course.


In Texas it would be "Senor Spinner" so that is what it will have to be.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> In Texas it would be "Senor Spinner" so that is what it will have to be.



I like that better than 'Senior Spinner,' although both are objectively accurate.


----------



## Odin412

I've been listening to my Focal Elear lately and to my ears these headphones have a very nice synergy with the Lyr 3, especially using the Amperex 6SN7 Bugle Boy tube. The midrange is spacious and lifelike and the treble is very smooth and extended.


----------



## Ripper2860

6SN7 Bugle boy?    Did you mean 12AU7?  Didn't know they made a 6SN7.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 29, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> 6SN7 Bugle boy?    Did you mean 12AU7?  Didn't know they made a 6SN7.



I've never seen a true Philips-made 6SN7 labeled as Amperex.  But I looked and looked and finally found one.  Wait....etched dots! OH NO! We all know what that means: pure evil lurks therein.  






So I looked again, and THEN found one.  But wait...flying saucer getter pan?  Foiled again. Not Philips. Russian. Might sound very good, it just wasn't made by Philips.





I even have some Amperex 6AS7's that clearly show they were made in England. With the flying saucer, it must have been the Russian part of England.


----------



## Odin412

Ripper2860 said:


> 6SN7 Bugle boy?    Did you mean 12AU7?  Didn't know they made a 6SN7.



I'm by no means a tube expert. When I bought it the description said 'Bugle Boy' and the tube has a picture of a what looks like a boy (in the shape of a tube) bugling.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

adydula said:


> Well they aren't bad boys, but for $25 they were a great deal to me and they work great!! 6SN7GTB's



I think I have a couple of those yellow label Sylvania's on the right. Not a tube expert by any means, but I like them in the Lyr.


----------



## Ripper2860

Odin412 said:


> I'm by no means a tube expert. When I bought it the description said 'Bugle Boy' and the tube has a picture of a what looks like a boy (in the shape of a tube) bugling.



Do you mind sharing a picture of the tube and logo?  I've never seen a 6SN7 Bugle Boy and what you've described if etched / screened on the glass definitely has my curiosity going.  It may well be a very rare find you have there!!


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Do you mind sharing a picture of the tube and logo?  I've never seen a 6SN7 Bugle Boy and what you've described if etched / screened on the glass definitely has my curiosity going.  It may well be a very rare find you have there!!


The Jackalope of tubes!!!


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> I'm by no means a tube expert. When I bought it the description said 'Bugle Boy' and the tube has a picture of a what looks like a boy (in the shape of a tube) bugling.



I'm a far cry from an expert myself (I only play one on TV).   I don't know what it is with the later year Amperex labeling on a lot of Russian tubes. Most of what I've seen have genuine looking (and aged) boxes, and the silkscreening looks to be legit rather than an obvious relabeling attempt.  Amperex was just a Philips marketing brand for tubes sold (primarily) to the US market, and perhaps as they were winding down tube production they shifted orders to Russian manufacturers and permitted their labeling to be used. I really don't know...just WAG-ing here.   

I sent a message to the Ebay seller with the GE 'Amperex' and got this response.  Not sure if it was an honest mistake or whether he was just trying to get away with it, but the important thing is that he corrected it.




.


----------



## Odin412

Ripper2860 said:


> Do you mind sharing a picture of the tube and logo?  I've never seen a 6SN7 Bugle Boy and what you've described if etched / screened on the glass definitely has my curiosity going.  It may well be a very rare find you have there!!



No problem - here you go. Sorry for the blurryness of the photos - it's hard to get the phone camera to focus on a glass tube. There is a 66-41 number printed on the side of the tube.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> 6SN7 Bugle boy?    Did you mean 12AU7?  Didn't know they made a 6SN7.



A 12AU7 wouldn’t work in the Lyr3 would it? Even with an adapter, could it even light up with the 6.3V heater voltage and current the Lyr3 can supply?


----------



## flailure

Monahans67 said:


> Man you have been through it or sure.  My first impression is I hope your wife is all healed and beyond the stuff that had to be treated.  My wife too has had alot of eye problems, Karataconus, macular degeneration and detached retina and cataract surgery in both eyes.  .  She is still going through it but we will get through it together.  My heart goes out to you and your family.  I fully understand your feeling that music and finding a peace is why they say music is rest for the soul.  I too had to sell stuff and start all over and have now found that without spending a lot of money I am happy with the Schiit Bifrost (added multibit) and the Lyr 3 that any headphone I throw at it will sound great to me.  You will eventually start the tube rolling and that in itself is a real experience in itself. I fully understand that family comes first and sometimes we have to do whatever it takes to take care of family.  I am sure you can ask any questions on this site and get a lot of answers .  I have proven you can even ask stupid questions and these guys are willing to help in any way they can.  Welcome aboard for the ride.



Thanks for the welcome, and I'm sorry to hear about your wife, both of you have my empathy.  My wife is doing better now that we are through all of the surgeries.  They failed to save her vision though, but it was a low chance and we knew that going into it, and it needed to be done at any rate to stabilize what remained.  I have very few regrets at selling off most of my audio and stuff from my other hobbies, it went to a good cause and now that we are settled down with our new life style, I have been able to get back to some of my hobbies.

I am really enjoying the lyr thus far, even if it is a bit different than what I had, but that's the exciting part too of trying new things and part of the reason why I didn't just start saving up and purchasing what I already had owned previously.  I think as far as amps go that this one will be the one I use for a long time, at least until I've acquired some more headphones, which won't be until after the economy picks back up.   And I will probably try a few different tubes, I still have a few left over from my old tube amp, and I'm pretty sure at least a few of them were the same as what is used in the lyr (it had 3 different types).  Be a while though, I'm really slow when it comes to tubes, I usually don't swap until I have a really good listen with the current setup which usually means listening to half my music collection, although, with only one tube to swap, the temptation is definitely greater.


----------



## Ripper2860

tafens said:


> A 12AU7 wouldn’t work in the Lyr3 would it? Even with an adapter, could it even light up with the 6.3V heater voltage and current the Lyr3 can supply?



12AU7 works a treat with adapter.  12AU7 can run 6v or 12v and the correct adapter will have pin-outs to run the heater at 6v.


----------



## Monahans67

Wow you guys amaze me with your knowledge about tubes.


----------



## Zachik

Monahans67 said:


> Wow you guys amaze me with your knowledge about tubes.


Most of us know ONLY tubes... nothing else... are you still impressed? 
@Ripper2860 on the other hand is an expert on both tubes and Barbie dolls. Now, *that* is impressive!!!


----------



## Monahans67

Zachik said:


> Most of us know ONLY tubes... nothing else... are you still impressed?
> @Ripper2860 on the other hand is an expert on both tubes and Barbie dolls. Now, *that* is impressive!!!


If  you saw that basement you would not be impressed rather it would be disgusted. LOL Also bcCowan said he played a tube expert on TV and that was the problem.  Everybody knows you have to stay the night in the Holiday Inn to get expert status.  Man it is a job keeping both of them in line.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> If  you saw that basement you would not be impressed rather it would be disgusted. LOL Also bcCowan said he played a tube expert on TV and that was the problem.  Everybody knows you have to stay the night in the Holiday Inn to get expert status.  Man it is a job keeping both of them in line.



Fine, NOW you tell me.  I already prepaid for Ripper's Barbie 101 course due to start this summer. Like this virus thing wasn't enough...now this.  Crap.  Of course Corona may be pretty benign compared to the other viruses in his classroom, so perhaps I should be thanking you.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Most of us know ONLY tubes... nothing else... are you still impressed?
> @Ripper2860 on the other hand is an expert on both tubes and Barbie dolls. Now, *that* is impressive!!!



I know some stuff about cats too.  Does that count?


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> No problem - here you go. Sorry for the blurryness of the photos - it's hard to get the phone camera to focus on a glass tube. There is a 66-41 number printed on the side of the tube.



Interesting.  Looks pretty similar to this...do these photos match what you have (as best you can tell)?


----------



## bcowen

I found this Amperex in my stash:






Ok, so it was made in Russia.  Some of my favorite tubes were made in Russia, like Fotons.  LOL!!


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> I found this Amperex in my stash:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As big as your stash is that probably took you a couple days>>>>Hoarder.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> I found this Amperex in my stash:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trade it for 2 rolls of TP?


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> As big as your stash is that probably took you a couple days>>>>Hoarder.



I have an automatic retrieval system.  But I only have it for 2 more years before he turns 18.


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Trade it for 2 rolls of TP?



Charmin?  Deal!  But none of that Scott brand that's basically relabeled sandpaper.


----------



## Monahans67

There was a guy here who had bought up a bunch of the big Charmin packs at Sams Club.  He had them in his garage and was selling them for 50.00 for a whole pack and 15.00 for the littler pack inside the big pack.  Yup he got busted too.  Don't know what they will do with him.  LOL


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> Interesting.  Looks pretty similar to this...do these photos match what you have (as best you can tell)?



Yes, this looks very similar to my tube. What's this one?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 30, 2020)

Odin412 said:


> No problem - here you go. Sorry for the blurryness of the photos - it's hard to get the phone camera to focus on a glass tube. There is a 66-41 number printed on the side of the tube.



Well, can't say I've ever seen one of these before. 



Zachik said:


> Most of us know ONLY tubes... nothing else... are you still impressed?
> @Ripper2860 on the other hand is an expert on both tubes and Barbie dolls. Now, *that* is impressive!!!



Klaus Barbie dolls.  How many times must I tell you guys, it's Klaus Barbie dolls.


----------



## bcowen

Odin412 said:


> Yes, this looks very similar to my tube. What's this one?



Can't say for sure the one you have is an RCA, but I agree they look very similar. Can you see the getter tray or support down in the base? May need a flashlight to see it.  And even the RCA I have may have been made by Sylvania or Raytheon or TungSol as lots of OEM'ing went on back in those days. Figuring some of these out can be lots of fun...or extremely frustrating depending on the viewpoint.   If you like the sound it doesn't really matter who made it...I'm just interested in its origin.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> There was a guy here who had bought up a bunch of the big Charmin packs at Sams Club.  He had them in his garage and was selling them for 50.00 for a whole pack and 15.00 for the littler pack inside the big pack.  Yup he got busted too.  Don't know what they will do with him.  LOL



I bet they confiscate his Barbie dolls at minimum.


----------



## earnmyturns (Mar 30, 2020)

tafens said:


> I was thinking that some day I would upgrade to the Yggdrasil, but now I’m hesitant; it might be too revealing and lose in smoothness.


Don't worry. Lyr 3 with a good tube scales up to Yggdrasil for sure. The only problem is that like me you may be tempted by exotic all-tube amps to check what the Yggdrasil can achieve. My Lyr 3 went to a new home quite a while ago, but not because it overstayed its welcome. Definitely the best price-performance amp I've ever owned, and I've owned quite a few since I got sucked into the headphone audio vortex (Asgard 2, Cavalli Liquid Carbon, Jotunheim, Neurochrome HP-1, Lyr 3, Apex Peak, SPL Phonitor XE, Eddie Current Aficionado, ecp DSHA-3F).


----------



## AudioProm

bcowen said:


> I know some stuff about cats too.  Does that count?



LOL You made me look for this:


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> 12AU7 works a treat with adapter.  12AU7 can run 6v or 12v and the correct adapter will have pin-outs to run the heater at 6v.



Nice! The world of 12AU7 and equivalents just opened up!  
I don’t know it that’s good or bad though..


----------



## bcowen

AudioProm said:


> LOL You made me look for this:



ROFL!!!


----------



## FLTWS

LOL, I don't know, I've got tube and SS and hybrid amps and 0 cats (or dogs).


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Nice! The world of 12AU7 and equivalents just opened up!
> I don’t know it that’s good or bad though..



Don't forget 6CG7's which are a 6SN7 packaged in a 9-pin bottle. Adapter required for the Lyr 3 obviously, but electrically identical otherwise.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> LOL, I don't know, I've got tube and SS and hybrid amps and 0 cats (or dogs).



I probably have a spare cat I can send you if you like.  The dog would be off limits unless accompanied by the wife, so I'll just assume you'd prefer the cat.


----------



## AudioProm

bcowen said:


> Don't forget 6CG7's which are a 6SN7 packaged in a 9-pin bottle. Adapter required for the Lyr 3 obviously, but electrically identical otherwise.



There was few posts about this on LYR tube roller if I remember right. The 6CG7 RCA Clear top sounds pretty good in my chain (BF2-LYR3-Verite+Suede). It's sounds very similar with Sylvania bad boy to me. Problem is the adapter. I couldn't find one locally and had to wait for more than a month to get one shipped from China with all that's going on right now.


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 31, 2020)

bcowen said:


> I probably have a spare cat I can send you if you like.  The dog would be off limits unless accompanied by the wife, so I'll just assume you'd prefer the cat.



Le'me think on that and get back to you.
Cat people always seem to extra or spare cats.


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> Can't say for sure the one you have is an RCA, but I agree they look very similar. Can you see the getter tray or support down in the base? May need a flashlight to see it.  And even the RCA I have may have been made by Sylvania or Raytheon or TungSol as lots of OEM'ing went on back in those days. Figuring some of these out can be lots of fun...or extremely frustrating depending on the viewpoint.   If you like the sound it doesn't really matter who made it...I'm just interested in its origin.



Interesting - thanks! Sorry I'm not a tube expert so I don't know much about the internals of the tube. Anyway, I enjoy the sound of it and that's what's most important. It's amazing that it was made in 1966 and still works great! Tube rolling is fun, and it's interesting to see how the various tubes can look rather different on the inside.


----------



## flailure

I went through my remaining tubes, had more that I thought, probably nothing particularly awesome, but I'll have to give them a listen.  Feel a little guilty because they are all in matched pairs, but sometimes couples have to break up and go their own way.  And if I find any that I particularly enjoy I will have a spare.


----------



## Monahans67

flailure said:


> I went through my remaining tubes, had more that I thought, probably nothing particularly awesome, but I'll have to give them a listen.  Feel a little guilty because they are all in matched pairs, but sometimes couples have to break up and go their own way.  And if I find any that I particularly enjoy I will have a spare.


If that is the only separation you have to experience (tubes) you are  in good shape.  It won't be near as devastating as Rippers separation from his Barbie dolls. LOL


----------



## bcowen

flailure said:


> I went through my remaining tubes, had more that I thought, probably nothing particularly awesome, but I'll have to give them a listen.  Feel a little guilty because they are all in matched pairs, but sometimes couples have to break up and go their own way.  And if I find any that I particularly enjoy I will have a spare.



The best way to assuage the break-up guilt is to buy another Lyr 3.  See?  Easy.


----------



## flailure

bcowen said:


> The best way to assuage the break-up guilt is to buy another Lyr 3.  See?  Easy.


Actually, that is not a bad idea, providing I had the money for it.  Whether from old age or the years spent listening to vmodas on a cellphone when that was all I had, for whatever reason my hearing is not what it used to be, and the second lyr would make comparing tubes easier.  On the flip side, however, it may take away some of the joy out of spending a week listening to my music trying to get a feel for a tube and what it can do.  I think I'm just going to keep listening and enjoying, and see where the music leads me.

That being said, trying to decide which one of these tubes will go in next, got a pair of sylvania 2 holes, some brown based jans with silver tops (markings very worn), and quite a few short bottle ge's and rca's some with halos and some without, a pair of raytheons, and a pair of cbs.  A lot more than I thought I had, I thought I had sold most of them back then, but it was so hectic going back and forth between work and hospital, I guess I just never got around to selling them.  Kind of glad now though, since these are all pairs, they should last me many many years.  

I do wish I still had my pair of hd800, I would have loved to try them on this amp.  I told myself I wouldn't purchase anything I had already had previously, but there is always some temptation.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 3, 2020)

flailure said:


> some brown based jans with silver tops (markings very worn)



Hmmm.   Sounds like they may be Sylvania 6SN7WGT or WGTA.  If so, they are not too shabby at all.  Give them a try.


----------



## kiwivda

I'm looking fora a dac in the 250$ ballpark to place near the Multibit I've in the Lyr3, any suggestion? I would something able to support DSD a  high bitrate  with allthe bells and whistles that Multibit does't have. Hey don't misunderstand, I relally like the Multibit, just wanna hear how is the other side.


----------



## Benno1988

kiwivda said:


> I'm looking fora a dac in the 250$ ballpark to place near the Multibit I've in the Lyr3, any suggestion? I would something able to support DSD a  high bitrate  with allthe bells and whistles that Multibit does't have. Hey don't misunderstand, I relally like the Multibit, just wanna hear how is the other side.


Topping D50S?


----------



## kiwivda

Benno1988 said:


> Topping D50S?


Yes something like that.


----------



## Ripper2860

+1 for Topping D50s


----------



## kiwivda

And what about Lyr3 + SMSL SU-8


----------



## bcowen

kiwivda said:


> Yes something like that.



There's also the Aune T1 that some around these parts like better than the Modi Multi. It's an amp/DAC combo, but you can bypass the amp and use just the DAC portion.  Just be sure to get the very latest version like below -- I got an earlier version which was quite good, but (IMO) was a step behind the Modi.    

https://www.auneaudio-europe.com/in...er.html?___store=auneeng&___from_store=aunenl


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.   Sounds like they may be Sylvania 6SN7WGT or WGTA.  If so, they are not too shabby at all.  Give them a try.



Look what I just found for you, Ripper.  Now you can have matching brands!  Well, maybe -- I guess I'm just assuming your Matador has an AM tube radio?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 5, 2020)

Sold the Matador some time ago.  I decided to be more environmentally conscious and got myself an EV.  I now drive a pink Barbie Corvette.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Sold the Matador some time ago.  I decided to be more environmentally conscious and got myself an EV.  I now drive a pink Barbie Corvette.


Like this??


----------



## flailure

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.   Sounds like they may be Sylvania 6SN7WGT or WGTA.  If so, they are not too shabby at all.  Give them a try.




That looks just like the pair that I have, and I did go ahead and try that one, and the cbs one, and was fairly impressed.  I must admit that I was a little skeptical going in, that a hybrid amp that only used one tube, if different tubes would make much of a difference.  However, it may be that it makes more of a difference with it only using one tube because even with my aging ears I can easily appreciate the changes between the 3 tubes that I have tried so far.  The jan brown base is probably closer to what I was originally looking for, very clear sound, slightly more analytical than the others, but definitely not lacking anything either.  The CBS is certainly the most bass heavy of the 3 so far, though it was a nice and clean bass.  And the JJ stock which still held its own.  None of them were disagreeable, I would and will definitively keep them in the rotation.  If the rest of the tubes in my collection are as varied as the first 3 I tried, I may end up selling the loki, just because I could always swap tubes to achieve the sought for sound.  Though, sometimes it is nice being able to do a small tweak here and there...


----------



## Benno1988

Anyone with the stock Tung Sol type tube in the Lyr 3, able to measure its "height", desk to top of tube. Trying to check if it'll fit in a space on my desk.


----------



## roadcykler

Benno1988 said:


> Anyone with the stock Tung Sol type tube in the Lyr 3, able to measure its "height", desk to top of tube. Trying to check if it'll fit in a space on my desk.



It's very close to 3.75 (95.25 mm) inches, and definitely no more than 4 (101.6mm)


----------



## Benno1988

Thanks!

Would give me about 45mm (almost 2 inch) of clearance to underside of the shelf. Is that enough? Its open all around for air flow.


----------



## roadcykler

Benno1988 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Would give me about 45mm (almost 2 inch) of clearance to underside of the shelf. Is that enough? Its open all around for air flow.



I would say so. It does get warm but not to the point of danger and as long as it has good air flow, I expect you'd be okay.


----------



## Benno1988

Awesome, now to find someone selling a 240V version.

Aren't too common here in Australia.


----------



## ivanost

Curious if anyone has done head to head comparisons between the OG Lyr (two tube model with the horseshoe shaped heat vents) vs. the new 2 and 3. I've been playing around with the original Lyr and have liked but not loved it - there's persistent hiss, which is decent as white noise but annoying when I'm listening quietly and the ratio of hiss volume: music volume rises. Curious if folks have thoughts re: spending money to upgrade this box to a different box.


----------



## tafens

ivanost said:


> Curious if anyone has done head to head comparisons between the OG Lyr (two tube model with the horseshoe shaped heat vents) vs. the new 2 and 3.



+1 I’m also curious about this.

Of the Lyrs I only have experience with the Lyr3, but to my ears it is a great amp. No hiss, the tube has large influence on the sound, and it scales up well with upstream gear.


----------



## ivanost

How much did you pay for your Lyr? I jumped on a used OG Lyr with some Genalex Gold Lions in it because it was selling for real cheap, but am wondering if it might have been worth some extra for a newer Lyr.


----------



## ivanost

(Especially given Schiit's tendency to completely remake products between generations rather than evolve them interatively - great that they're keeping on their toes and all, and it's definitely consumer friendly to make leaps and bounds of progress between generations - but it does feel bad when you buy Gen 1 only to find out that Gen 2 flies and cleans your shoes.)


----------



## adydula

Now thats a neat analogy I never would have thought that my LYR 3 would clean my shoes, going to have to re-read the manual to figure out how this is done!!


----------



## ivanost (Apr 14, 2020)

I've found nothing improves audio quality like a clean pair of shoes. :+)


----------



## tafens

ivanost said:


> How much did you pay for your Lyr? I jumped on a used OG Lyr with some Genalex Gold Lions in it because it was selling for real cheap, but am wondering if it might have been worth some extra for a newer Lyr.



I bought my Lyr3 from Schiit directly:
https://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-1
$499 (I got mine with multibit card, total $699)

I actually don’t think I’ve spent that amount in tubes, yet, but when I get the Shuguang CV181ZmkII to try, I will


----------



## ivanost

$1,200 in stimulus can sure fill out an audio stable, huh?


----------



## bcowen

ivanost said:


> $1,200 in stimulus can sure fill out an audio stable, huh?



Get a wife and kid and make it $2900.  

Wait...maybe $1200 is better.  Nevermind.


----------



## bcowen

ivanost said:


> I've found nothing improves audio quality like a clean pair of shoes. :+)



@Ripper2860 claims his system sounds better when he's wearing high heels.  But he never mentioned how clean they were.


----------



## Ripper2860

There's no price too high in my pursuit of sonic excellence.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> There's no price too high in my pursuit of sonic excellence.


If you want to see something really impressive have Ripper tell you how much he has spent on shoes for his Barbie collection...


----------



## Ripper2860

Tell me about it.  Barbie is NOT a cheap date.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Tell me about it.  Barbie is NOT a cheap date.


You probably bought both colors with your stimulus.


----------



## Semper HiFi

Does anyone know if I can I stack a Modi on the Lyr 3 without it being too close to the tube?


----------



## flailure

Semper HiFi said:


> Does anyone know if I can I stack a Modi on the Lyr 3 without it being too close to the tube?


You can, though it may look a bit off, not only is the modi less wide, but also less deep.  Done right though and you can still keep the power wires routed away from the output, though you may need slightly longer cables to achieve this.


----------



## Monahans67

I need help.  Somewhere on here I saw something you guys are using to put between the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost to raise the Lyr 3 up about 1/2".  For the life of me I can't find it again.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> I need help.  Somewhere on here I saw something you guys are using to put between the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost to raise the Lyr 3 up about 1/2".  For the life of me I can't find it again.


----------



## showme99

Monahans67 said:


> I need help.  Somewhere on here I saw something you guys are using to put between the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost to raise the Lyr 3 up about 1/2".  For the life of me I can't find it again.





bcowen said:


>


----------



## Monahans67

showme99 said:


>


That might work...I could hide my tubes in it too.  Thanks guys, great idea.


----------



## bcowen

Monahans67 said:


> That might work...I could hide my tubes in it too.  Thanks guys, great idea.



https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/component-isolation/products/tenderfoot


----------



## bcowen (Apr 19, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> That might work...I could hide my tubes in it too.  Thanks guys, great idea.



Why would you hide your tubes?  Oh, right...forgot.  You're not too far away from @Ripper2860 .  Good plan.


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> Why would you hide your tubes?  Oh, right...forgot.  You're not too far away from @Ripper2860 .  Good plan.


Yeah we have had to hide tubes and also the Great Grandkids Barbie's too.  Stuff was just missing too much.  Cops said they have a video of a pink Barbie car driving past our place.


----------



## earnmyturns

Semper HiFi said:


> Does anyone know if I can I stack a Modi on the Lyr 3 without it being too close to the tube?


When I had a Schiit stack, I used these.


----------



## Maishar

Hi there

I have a quick question and I was hoping one of you guys could give me an answer.
Every time I turn on my Lyr 3, my monitor which sits just next to it goes black for a second and then returns to normal.

My monitor is a cheap Samsung 28" UE590 but I would only guess it happens to all LCDs no matter the brand or model.
Does anyone have an explanation to this phenomena or may direct me to some literature about it. 

Thanks!


----------



## Monahans67

Maishar said:


> Hi there
> 
> I have a quick question and I was hoping one of you guys could give me an answer.
> Every time I turn on my Lyr 3, my monitor which sits just next to it goes black for a second and then returns to normal.
> ...


I just tried mine and it doesn't do it.  I have it connected digital out from computer to Bifrost then to Loki and then to Lyr 3.  Maybe if you use USB there might be something but I don't use USB>


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 20, 2020)

Maishar said:


> Hi there
> 
> I have a quick question and I was hoping one of you guys could give me an answer.
> Every time I turn on my Lyr 3, my monitor which sits just next to it goes black for a second and then returns to normal.
> ...



Strange...

My Lyr 3 sits under my Dell 25" LCD monitor and I've never, ever, experienced what you've described.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Strange...
> 
> My Lyr 3 sits under my Dell 25" LCD monitor and I've never, ever, experienced what you've described.


I hope his Lyr 3 doesn't have the Corona Virus.  That could explain it. LOL


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Maishar said:


> Does anyone have an explanation to this phenomena or may direct me to some literature about it.



Yeah, well you probably didn't notice all the lights in your city go dim when you power it on either. It was not just your screen 

That will learn ya to listen to @Ripper2860 tube recommendations. They might be ok for him but for a lot of us the local power stations just can't hack it


----------



## AudioProm

Monahans67 said:


> I need help.  Somewhere on here I saw something you guys are using to put between the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost to raise the Lyr 3 up about 1/2".  For the life of me I can't find it again.



This thing?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KWVTJV/

I'm using these for something else since I have a good air flow for the stack.


----------



## bcowen

Maishar said:


> Hi there
> 
> I have a quick question and I was hoping one of you guys could give me an answer.
> Every time I turn on my Lyr 3, my monitor which sits just next to it goes black for a second and then returns to normal.
> ...



This is just a guess, but the power supply for the monitor is unable to deal with a momentary voltage drop caused by the initial inrush current from powering up the Lyr.  One of the big differences between cheap and expensive monitors is the size and refinement of the power supply (surprisingly, the LCD screen itself can be the same between drastically different priced units). Just as a temporary experiment, try plugging the monitor (or the Lyr) into a different outlet, even if you need to use an extension cord. If the problem stops AND that outlet is on the same house circuit, there could be a problem with the outlet the monitor/Lyr are currently plugged into (like loose or corroded wiring or bad contacts). If you can plug into an outlet on a different circuit and the problem stops, then it's likely just the power supply for the monitor that's unable to cope with a small and brief voltage sag.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> This is just a guess, but the power supply for the monitor is unable to deal with a momentary voltage drop caused by the initial inrush current from powering up the Lyr.  One of the big differences between cheap and expensive monitors is the size and refinement of the power supply (surprisingly, the LCD screen itself can be the same between drastically different priced units). Just as a temporary experiment, try plugging the monitor (or the Lyr) into a different outlet, even if you need to use an extension cord. If the problem stops AND that outlet is on the same house circuit, there could be a problem with the outlet the monitor/Lyr are currently plugged into (like loose or corroded wiring or bad contacts). If you can plug into an outlet on a different circuit and the problem stops, then it's likely just the power supply for the monitor that's unable to cope with a small and brief voltage sag.



Wow!  That was a helpful post...

*Who are you and what have you done with @bcowen !!!???*


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow!  That was a helpful post...
> 
> *Who are you and what have you done with @bcowen !!!???*



I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> *Who are you and what have you done with @bcowen !!!???*


I heard one of the COVID-19 side effects is people becoming nice... 
Bill - do you have other symptoms? Cough? Fever?


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> I heard one of the COVID-19 side effects is people becoming nice...
> Bill - do you have other symptoms? Cough? Fever?



No, but I have this sudden urge to look at Barbie dolls on Ebay.  Wait...that's a totally different disease. Nobody warned me it might be contagious.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 20, 2020)

OK, "Buffalo Bill" -- after your failed attempt at making your own life-sized Barbie, I think an eBay purchase may be the way to go, you cheap person.

"It puts the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again."


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> OK, "Buffalo Bill" -- after your failed attempt at making your own life-sized Barbie, I think an eBay purchase may be the way to go, you cheap person.
> 
> "It puts the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again."



I was leaning more towards the Marilyn Manson series.  No?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 20, 2020)

I think you've been had.  That looks more like Transgender Ken.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I think you've been had.  That looks more like Transgender Ken.



Yeah I thought about that too, but I was trying to find something that @Monahans67 would like.


----------



## Ripper2860

He wants a Dominatrix Skipper, but I told him that may raise too many red flags given her age!!


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> OK, "Buffalo Bill" -- after your failed attempt at making your own life-sized Barbie, I think an eBay purchase may be the way to go, you cheap person.
> 
> "It puts the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again."


Wow, again I have nothing to say or add.  Flabergasted!!!!!





Ripper2860 said:


> He wants a Dominatrix Skipper, but I told him that may raise too many red flags given her age!!


skipper, stripper, Ripper, flipper etc.  If the truth was known my wife still gets on her hands and knees to me every morning.  She then says, "Come out from under that bed and take your beating like a man". This happens daily so don't tell me about domnatrix.  I've been getting beat everyday for 53 years.


----------



## reddasher (Apr 30, 2020)

Hi All,
Considering getting Lyr3  for my planars, should I get it with AK4490 or would you suggest some separate DAC (100-200$ range)?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If you want DSD or MQA you'll have to look elsewhere. OTOH 100 bucks for the DAC card seems like a fair deal if you play mostly FLAC.


----------



## Zachik

reddasher said:


> Hi All,
> Considering getting Lyr3  for my planars, should I get it with AK4490 or would you suggest some separate DAC (100-200$ range)?


If you do not mind the separate DAC and RCA cables between them - definitely separate DAC. The AK4490 card is just OK, and you could do much better with external DAC.
I think the AK4490 is only good answer for people that have space limitation and just want 1-chassis-solution.


----------



## reddasher

Zachik said:


> If you do not mind the separate DAC and RCA cables between them - definitely separate DAC. The AK4490 card is just OK, and you could do much better with external DAC.
> I think the AK4490 is only good answer for people that have space limitation and just want 1-chassis-solution.


I was looking at xDuoo XD05 Plus (can use as DAC for Lyr3 or as DAC/AMP when on the go) 
or TOPPING D10 . 
Are those any good as DACs?


----------



## Ripper2860

Why not the Modi 3?


----------



## reddasher

Ripper2860 said:


> Why not the Modi 3?


Isn't it the same chip AKM AK4490 thats in the module card of Lyr3?


----------



## tcellguy

Its not just the chip but the overall implementation is my understanding (isolation, power supply). I have the AK4490 balanced card in my Jotunheim but the Modi 3 sounds better. It's not a huge difference but the Modi 3 sounds a bit more "open" and a has a bit more depth and treble definition. If you go optical in vs. USB into the Modi the difference is even greater. I tested this with an Eitr a while back.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> He wants a Dominatrix Skipper, but I told him that may raise too many red flags given her age!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 30, 2020)

Old news.  I've been quarantined with Barbie for weeks.  I've learned she really loves Tequila and pr0n - in that order.


----------



## Monahans67

You and your Barbie, geezer.  Yall better leave those dominatrix barbies alone.  Leave them to the experts.  I have 53 years experience with one.  Believe me you don't want any of it. lol


----------



## bcowen

I'm going to assume they're out of stock everywhere now since @Ripper2860 has seen this.


----------



## Ripper2860

2 words - HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE.


----------



## JamminVMI

reddasher said:


> Hi All,
> Considering getting Lyr3  for my planars, should I get it with AK4490 or would you suggest some separate DAC (100-200$ range)?


I’m in the separatist camp. Having a separate DAC gets you (usually) more input variety, and the ability to upgrade If/when desired. You’re limited to USB with the internal card. Again, my opinion, fwiw...


----------



## Ninadada

Ripper2860 said:


> Tell me about it.  Barbie is NOT a cheap date.


For that price, I'd prefer a Bifrost 2.  The novelty will last longer and maintenance costs are substantially lower.  🤫


----------



## adydula

I tested a $5495 device in house last week and compared to the Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3......both nice, both simiar...

But one was $5495 and the other was $599 + $499 = $1100...quite a differnce for similar experience wouldnt ya say?

Alex


----------



## Gregg

I'm a separates guy as well. I've never had a dac/amp where I liked both parts equally as well. I guesss for 5K, you can probably find a really nice one, but I get so much more enjoyment by buying each one individually and fine-tuning the character of my system that way for much less money. Now I'm hoping to get a Bifrost 2 to go with my Lyr3.


----------



## Ninadada

Gregg said:


> I'm a separates guy as well. I've never had a dac/amp where I liked both parts equally as well. I guesss for 5K, you can probably find a really nice one, but I get so much more enjoyment by buying each one individually and fine-tuning the character of my system that way for much less money. Now I'm hoping to get a Bifrost 2 to go with my Lyr3.


What DAC are you currently using with your Lyr3?  I just bought a Lyr3 to go with my original MB Bifrost.  Absolutely love it but eyeing the Bifrost 2 as well.   Unison USB is a nice breakthrough but I have no issues with noise currently.  Just worried that despite the complete redesign if there will be an appreciable audible improvement to what is already an amazing DAC.


----------



## adydula

The original MB Bifrost is an excellant dac...had one for a few years with the Unison Upgrade for sevearal months...worked well..the newer B2 is indeed better...but you still will have a great experience with the original B1

Alex


----------



## reddasher (May 25, 2020)

Hi All,
Sounds like I have an issue with my Lyr3.
For certain frequencies when listening loud enough (~ 75% of max volume or higher), unit goes in protection mode for about 20 sec.
I was able to reproduce this issue, no matter which headphones I use, result it the same.
Here is when that happens:
When on Netflix (PC app or browser) try the "Europa report" movie somewhere around 1:07:20 - 1:07:26 my unit shuts down every time (1:07:23 to be exact)!
Could someone test it as well? Just want to make sure its my unit only...


P.S. My DAC is Modi3


----------



## bcowen

reddasher said:


> Hi All,
> Sounds like I have an issue with my Lyr3.
> For certain frequencies when listening loud enough (~ 75% of max volume or higher), unit goes in protection mode for about 20 sec.
> I was able to reproduce this issue, no matter which headphones I use, result it the same.
> ...



75% of max volume?  Like ~2:00 - 3:00 on the volume knob?  Have you tried putting the Lyr 3 in high gain?


----------



## reddasher (May 25, 2020)

bcowen said:


> 75% of max volume?  Like ~2:00 - 3:00 on the volume knob?  Have you tried putting the Lyr 3 in high gain?


Yes 2-3 on the volume knob, Tried High Gain, different tubes but result is the same 
This even happens when no headphones plugged in at all


----------



## tafens

reddasher said:


> Hi All,
> Sounds like I have an issue with my Lyr3.
> For certain frequencies when listening loud enough (~ 75% of max volume or higher), unit goes in protection mode for about 20 sec.
> I was able to reproduce this issue, no matter which headphones I use, result it the same.
> ...



I would test it if I could, but Europa report doesn’t seem to be available on Netflix for me. However, I read somewhere (don’t remember where, could have been here) about a guy that had similar problems with his Lyr3. It would cut out as if there was a power outage and then it came back a while later. That turned out to be a dodgy mains transformer, and a round trip to Schiit got it fixed. Sounds kinda like there could be a similar issue with yours. Send ‘em an email and let us know how it goes


----------



## reddasher (May 25, 2020)

tafens said:


> I would test it if I could, but Europa report doesn’t seem to be available on Netflix for me. However, I read somewhere (don’t remember where, could have been here) about a guy that had similar problems with his Lyr3. It would cut out as if there was a power outage and then it came back a while later. That turned out to be a dodgy mains transformer, and a round trip to Schiit got it fixed. Sounds kinda like there could be a similar issue with yours. Send ‘em an email and let us know how it goes



Here is the wav from that movie: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUGlPlF1v58xvuFciPyBJPRkBoepPObc/view?usp=sharing
Shuts down my Lyr3 on 3rd second (relay goes off for around 10sec and then back on)


Recording may seem glitchy. However thats how its in the movie (in the movie the sound is simulating "interference") so thats correct sound.


----------



## adydula

Send Schiit a email via there contact on their website....its the fastest way to get your issue fixed if its a hardware issue.


----------



## reddasher

adydula said:


> Send Schiit a email via there contact on their website....its the fastest way to get your issue fixed if its a hardware issue.


I did send an email to them, just wondering if its only my unit :\
So far, any other music plays just fine.. except that movie piece (It has weird frequencies tho...)


----------



## tafens

reddasher said:


> Here is the wav from that movie: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUGlPlF1v58xvuFciPyBJPRkBoepPObc/view?usp=sharing
> Shuts down my Lyr3 on 3rd second (relay goes off for around 10sec and then back on)
> 
> 
> Recording may seem glitchy. However thats how its in the movie (in the movie the sound is simulating "interference") so thats correct sound.



Interesting. I actually have two Lyr3:s, one for home and one for the office, but now I have both at home (as we work from home now).
The older one does not cut off at the about 3 seconds mark, but the newer one does. I get the cutoff if listening at 11 o'clock or higher.

This is how the waveform looks between about 2.5 seconds up to 4.5 seconds.
Depending on the volume setting it cuts of almost at once on hitting the first dip, later in the dip, or even at the second dip or not at all.

Note that the waveform stays below the zero-point where the Lyr3 cuts it out, and well below zero too.
It must trigger some kind of clipping or short-circuit protection, that also seems to be more sensitive in newer units.






Could someone at Schiit please chime in on this? @Jason Stoddard ?


----------



## tafens

reddasher said:


> I did send an email to them, just wondering if its only my unit :\
> So far, any other music plays just fine.. except that movie piece (It has weird frequencies tho...)



Well, as I described in my previous post I can confirm it's not only your unit.. but it seems not to be all units either.
Please let us know what they say about it.


----------



## bcowen (May 26, 2020)

tafens said:


> Interesting. I actually have two Lyr3:s, one for home and one for the office, but now I have both at home (as we work from home now).
> The older one does not cut off at the about 3 seconds mark, but the newer one does. I get the cutoff if listening at 11 o'clock or higher.
> 
> This is how the waveform looks between about 2.5 seconds up to 4.5 seconds.
> ...



Mine didn't cut off, although at exactly 3 seconds my cat attacked the dog and chewed off her front leg before I could stop her.  Now I claim the cat and my wife claims the dog, so no big deal as far as I'm concerned. 

Seriously, mine did not cut off.  It has a new main board in it (replaced by Schiit under warranty about a month ago after a hum developed in the original unit).  And contrary to some issues that have been reported, no headphones were harmed in the process. But beyond the weird noise at that point in the track, the Lyr 3 kept truckin' like usual.


----------



## Monahans67

bcowen said:


> Mine didn't cut off, although at exactly 3 seconds my cat attacked the dog and chewed off her front leg before I could stop her.  Now I claim the cat and my wife claims the dog, so no big deal as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Seriously, mine did not cut off.  It has a new main board in it (replaced by Schiit under warranty about a month ago after a hum developed in the original unit).  And contrary to some issues that have been reported, no headphones were harmed in the process. But beyond the weird noise at that point in the track, the Lyr 3 kept truckin' like usual.


Ain't that some Schiit.  I just reported you to the Animal Rights Board.  The only way I will revoke my complaint is if you send me all your Brimar tubes registered mail.  Lol


----------



## Zachik

tafens said:


> I actually have two Lyr3:s, one for home and one for the office, but now I have both at home (as we work from home now).


I wonder if you could hook up both Lyr3s, and use one for each channel. Monoblocks style


----------



## reddasher

Ok guys, jokes aside., sounds like it IS a reproducible issue.  The sound is an effect in the movie that simulates interference/clipping or like someone shortening wires. But afterall it's just a waveform.


----------



## reddasher

Which DAC do you have?
Modi 3 is in my setup.. wondering if we have the same



tafens said:


> Well, as I described in my previous post I can confirm it's not only your unit.. but it seems not to be all units either.
> Please let us know what they say about it.


----------



## Zachik

reddasher said:


> Ok guys, jokes aside.


Just FYI - if jokes are being put aside, I am going elsewhere and taking @Ripper2860 and @bcowen with me!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Just FYI - if jokes are being put aside, I am going elsewhere and taking @Ripper2860 and @bcowen with me!



You're joking, right?


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> You're joking, right?


Yup!!!!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 26, 2020)

Thanks for nothing.  I had my stuff ready to go and now I have to unpack and put everything away.


----------



## tafens

reddasher said:


> Which DAC do you have?
> Modi 3 is in my setup.. wondering if we have the same



Nope, I have a Bifrost2, which I connected to both units in turn.


----------



## adydula

Played this several time with my B-Stock Lyr 3...no issues at all....

Alex


----------



## kiwivda

i have a d50s topping an a multibit card in thr lyr3


----------



## adydula

tafens said:


> Interesting. I actually have two Lyr3:s, one for home and one for the office, but now I have both at home (as we work from home now).
> The older one does not cut off at the about 3 seconds mark, but the newer one does. I get the cutoff if listening at 11 o'clock or higher.
> 
> This is how the waveform looks between about 2.5 seconds up to 4.5 seconds.
> ...




QUESTION: Is this the ONLY song, sound, piece of music that seems to exhibit this phenomena??


----------



## adydula

Listening with Bifrost 2 ---" Lyr 3 with a nice old RCA tube...The Guess Who's "Follow Your Daughter Home!!" ....with Focal Clears...

Result: 10 out of a 10.

Period. Over and Out!!
:>)

Alex


----------



## tafens

adydula said:


> QUESTION: Is this the ONLY song, sound, piece of music that seems to exhibit this phenomena??



The only one I know of, as described by @reddasher, it is a sound clip from the movie “Europa report”. However I would suspect that anything that is significantly over or under the zero crossing for long enough would trigger it, when the volume pot is set high enough.

If I would make a guess, I’d say it’s what a DC protection circuit would do. Cut the output for a length of time until the DC is gone to protect the amp and the headphones.


----------



## tafens

adydula said:


> Listening with Bifrost 2 ---" Lyr 3 with a nice old RCA tube...The Guess Who's "Follow Your Daughter Home!!" ....with Focal Clears...
> 
> Result: 10 out of a 10.
> 
> ...



The Lyr3+Bifrost2 combo really is something isn’t it? 

Thoroughly enjoying this album I found on Bandcamp yesterday, with the Lyr3 (w/Tung-Sol 6SN7 reissue tube and HD6XX) through the Bifrost2. Especially the song “Forever Now”!


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks for nothing.  I had my stuff ready to go and now I have to unpack and put everything away.


My God did you pack the basement too?  I bet you are exhausted.  LOL


----------



## Ninadada

adydula said:


> Listening with Bifrost 2 ---" Lyr 3 with a nice old RCA tube...The Guess Who's "Follow Your Daughter Home!!" ....with Focal Clears...
> 
> Result: 10 out of a 10.
> 
> ...


Awesome setup.  I'm enjoying an OG MB Bifrost -> Lyr3 -> Arya.  Couple questions for you.  1) Do you think Bifrost 2 would offer audible improvements from OG MB Bifrost?  2) If you could upgrade 1 component to either a MB Gungnir w/Unison or Mjolnir, what would you choose?


----------



## adydula

I had the OG MB bifrost for 2 years. With the lastest USB upgrade, before it was sold as a beta adapter. The difference IMO is enough to justify moving on to B2. As far as audible improvemnets, that will depend on your ears, the material you play and the resolving power of yuor headphones. In my case with Focal Clears it does sound "better" IMO.

I love the Lyr 3...compared to the older Lyrs....for me its a very good hybrid tube amp. I have not heard or used the Mjolnir or Gungnir. If I were to go that route I would get both so they matched physically. (yes its vanity but cosmetically...the look great together).

WIth the level of performance I get with the B2 and L3 I see no reason to upgrade either of the components. Especially the B2...especially with all the improvements in its design...

Alex


----------



## adydula

This being a Lyr 3 thread...I must state the Lyr 3 is the best of all the past Lyr's for sure....

Having only 1 tube to deal with with all the NOS search for perfection and the new design improvements..the vast amount of power available with a SE out...makes the upgrade from the older stuff a no brainer IMO.

Having balanced in house in several formats in equipment has taken the mystery out of is balanced better than SE....and the answer for me was nope, both good, very hard to really tell any difference in music quality or reproduction..

So the Lyr 3 will save you in tube chasing costs and in balanced cables!!

:>)

Alex


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Listening with Bifrost 2 ---" Lyr 3 with a nice old RCA tube...The Guess Who's "Follow Your Daughter Home!!" ....with Focal Clears...
> 
> Result: 10 out of a 10.
> 
> ...



Picture(s) or it didn't happen.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> The Lyr3+Bifrost2 combo really is something isn’t it?
> 
> Thoroughly enjoying this album I found on Bandcamp yesterday, with the Lyr3 (w/Tung-Sol 6SN7 reissue tube and HD6XX) through the Bifrost2. Especially the song “Forever Now”!




Have you ever listened to @Ripper2860 's favorite album?  No issues with it shutting the Lyr 3 down from what I haven't heard.


----------



## Ripper2860

Which brings me to ...

When the hell are you going to return it?  I can't send you your next request until you do ...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Which brings me to ...
> 
> When the hell are you going to return it?  I can't send you your next request until you do ...



That wouldn't fit in my 8-track player.  Please pay more attention next time you send me something.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> That wouldn't fit in my 8-track player. Please pay more attention next time you send me something.


I am sure you can find an adapter Bill. This one for example for cassete (not CD, I know) is selling for less than $10 on eBay  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sparkomati...es-In-Your-8-Track-Player-SCA10-/233514658148


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> I am sure you can find an adapter Bill. This one for example for cassete (not CD, I know) is selling for less than $10 on eBay
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sparkomati...es-In-Your-8-Track-Player-SCA10-/233514658148



ROFL!  But I'm confused -- does the CD go on the left spindle?  Or the right?  And no reverse?  Huh? Can you only listen to something once 'cause there's no way to rewind it?  Is there maybe an instructional video that comes with it?  You would think a high quality brand like Sparkomatic would offer one, or at least a 24/7 staffed tech support line.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  But I'm confused -- does the CD go on the left spindle?  Or the right?  And no reverse?  Huh? Can you only listen to something once 'cause there's no way to rewind it?  Is there maybe an instructional video that comes with it?  You would think a high quality brand like Sparkomatic would offer one, or at least a 24/7 staffed tech support line.


They do! 1-800-FIGURE-OUT4YOURSELF


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 30, 2020)

I think that's not a real number.  It should be 1-800-DUMBASS and @bcowen already has it on his speed-dial.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I think that's not a real number.  It should be 1-800-DUMBASS and @bcowen already has it on his speed-dial.



Yes, I do.  Much faster than punching individual numbers when I call you.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 13, 2020)

Call me as often as you'd like.  It's only $25 for the first minute and $15 for every minute after that.  As usual, it will show up on your CC statement as 'My Secret GE love affair, Inc'.


----------



## barbz127

Couple of week wait for 230v lyrs at the moment - unsure if this is only impacting the lyr or all 230v schiit items in that form factor.


----------



## Ninadada

Picked up a Bifrost 2 last weekend at the Schiitr, about an hour's drive.  It was a worthwhile upgrade from BF1 by a margin better than I had hoped.  No buyer's remorse! I was able to concurrently connect my Jot balanced and Lyr 3 SE and perform side-by-side comparisons using the HD650.   My initial impressions are that clarity, resolution, detail retrieval, sound stage dimensions, instrument separation, imaging, and overall bass, mid, and treble tonality are nearly indistinguishable to me. What is consistently distinguishable is that the Lyr is warmer and more pleasant to my ears particularly among tracks with a lot of energy in the higher registers. Forwardly placed drum snares, brass, and female vocalists for example are more pleasant through the Lyr.

In conclusion, I am satisfied and convinced that Lyr SE is not giving up anything detectable by me compared to Jot balanced.  I would describe Lyr 3 as a slightly "caramelized-sounding" Jotunheim.


----------



## Zachik

Ninadada said:


> I would describe Lyr 3 as a slightly "caramelized-sounding" Jotunheim


Everything is better when caramelized


----------



## tafens

Ninadada said:


> In conclusion, I am satisfied and convinced that Lyr SE is not giving up anything detectable by me compared to Jot balanced.  I would describe Lyr 3 as a slightly "caramelized-sounding" Jotunheim.



What tube is in the Lyr3?


----------



## Ninadada

tafens said:


> What tube is in the Lyr3?


Just the stock JJ 6SN7.  I have no experience tube rolling....yet, but I'm sure curiosity will eventually get the best of me.


----------



## tafens

Ninadada said:


> Just the stock JJ 6SN7.  I have no experience tube rolling....yet, but I'm sure curiosity will eventually get the best of me.



I started almost two years ago with my Lyr3, having no rush with the rolling, but I have almost 20 tubes now. All are not unique though. I have a few spares included in that count.
The most expensive one was $80 I think, but most are south of $50 with some of the Russian (6N8S Foton) below $10. One does not have to buy the most expensive tubes to have a great time tube rolling, and they definitely sound different, some very much so 

Also, so far, trusting the judgement of @bcowen, I have also stayed far away from GE’s


----------



## Ninadada

tafens said:


> I started almost two years ago with my Lyr3, having no rush with the rolling, but I have almost 20 tubes now. All are not unique though. I have a few spares included in that count.
> The most expensive one was $80 I think, but most are south of $50 with some of the Russian (6N8S Foton) below $10. One does not have to buy the most expensive tubes to have a great time tube rolling, and they definitely sound different, some very much so
> 
> Also, so far, trusting the judgement of @bcowen, I have also stayed far away from GE’s


Thanks for the intro.  I see there's a lengthy thread here on Lyr3 tube rolling.  Has anyone attempted to put together a tube chart or would that be a futile effort?  Since we're running the same equipment, I'd be very interested to know maybe your top 2-3 favorite tubes and how they compare against the stock JJ 6SN7.


----------



## quimbo

Ninadada said:


> Thanks for the intro.  I see there's a lengthy thread here on Lyr3 tube rolling.  Has anyone attempted to put together a tube chart or would that be a futile effort?  Since we're running the same equipment, I'd be very interested to know maybe your top 2-3 favorite tubes and how they compare against the stock JJ 6SN7.


There are a few good threads here including

the-reference-6sn7-thread  and 6sn7-tube-addicts


----------



## Ninadada

quimbo said:


> There are a few good threads here including
> 
> the-reference-6sn7-thread  and 6sn7-tube-addicts


Thanks for the links!


----------



## tafens

Ninadada said:


> Thanks for the intro.  I see there's a lengthy thread here on Lyr3 tube rolling.  Has anyone attempted to put together a tube chart or would that be a futile effort?  Since we're running the same equipment, I'd be very interested to know maybe your top 2-3 favorite tubes and how they compare against the stock JJ 6SN7.



Opinions on what makes a tube sound good probably differ too much to make any definitive chart, but maybe if everyone chimes in with their select tubes we could make somekind of vote and make a chart of the “most liked” tube or something 

My favourite thus far still is the reissue Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, closely followed by the NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, which sounds very much alike but a little leaner.

Haven’t tried the Bad Boy, RCA grey glass or any of the other much coveted more expensive tubes yet, but I’m also not in a hurry to do that as I’m quite happy with what I’ve got. I’d love to try a Westinghouse D-getter though.


----------



## Wes S

My top 3 tubes in the Lyr 3.

1.  Brimar CV1988 - Huge Sounstage, and overall sweet but detailed sound, with great extension on both ends "Magical tube sound"

2.  Sylvania 6SN7GT 52' Bad Boy - Balanced Sound with a bit of warmth and good bass, and some of the best treble ever.

3.  Westinghouse 6SN7GTB D Getter w/ Black Plates - Nuetral from top to bottom, with an airy treble, good soundstage and imaging.

Other tubes that I rolled, that didn't live up to the hype or jive well for me.

1.  KenRad 6SN7GT Black Glass & Clear Glass w/Staggered Plates - Dark sounding overall, bloomy bass, and there is a spike somewhere in the upper mids/lower treble that can get a bit hot.  

2.  RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass early 40's - Way too warm and smooths over everything to much.  This tube has it's place due to the extreme warmth, but the Lyr 3 is not it.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Ninadada

tafens said:


> Opinions on what makes a tube sound good probably differ too much to make any definitive chart, but maybe if everyone chimes in with their select tubes we could make somekind of vote and make a chart of the “most liked” tube or something
> 
> My favourite thus far still is the reissue Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, closely followed by the NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, which sounds very much alike but a little leaner.
> 
> Haven’t tried the Bad Boy, RCA grey glass or any of the other much coveted more expensive tubes yet, but I’m also not in a hurry to do that as I’m quite happy with what I’ve got. I’d love to try a Westinghouse D-getter though.


It's great to hear opinions.  I see the reissue Tung-Sol available on Amazon for around $28 w/shipping.   I may start there as I see the NOS tubes are pricey and/or tougher to source.


----------



## Ninadada

Wes S said:


> My top 3 tubes in the Lyr 3.
> 
> 1.  Brimar CV1988 - Huge Sounstage, and overall sweet but detailed sound, with great extension on both ends "Magical tube sound"
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your impressions!  That Brimar sounds interesting but I see they're selling for around $300 on Ebay!  Is that really the going rate?


----------



## DowdyPrime (Jul 9, 2020)

Does anyone have thoughts about the Lyr 3 compared to Monolith Liquid Platinum (in sound quality and character, not specs)? They are similar in price now. There have been mentions of the amp on this thread, but nothing very specific yet. Ideas?


----------



## Sean_MR

Hi all, considering getting a Lyr 3, coming from a 789.  Just had a question I would love some input on.
I’ve heard the Lyr 3 is considered pretty bright for a tube amp. But _relative_ to the 789, it should still be much warmer right?  Also, how do the highs of the Lyr 3 compare to highs of the 789?

(also thanks to @XERO1 for helping me open my mind away from chasing measurements and towards enjoying the sound  )


----------



## chef8489

Sean_MR said:


> Hi all, considering getting a Lyr 3, coming from a 789.  Just had a question I would love some input on.
> I’ve heard the Lyr 3 is considered pretty bright for a tube amp. But _relative_ to the 789, it should still be much warmer right?  Also, how do the highs of the Lyr 3 compare to highs of the 789?
> 
> (also thanks to @XERO1 for helping me open my mind away from chasing measurements and towards enjoying the sound  )


Depends what tube you use. The stock tube is pretty neutral. Vintage tubes add more warmth. My fav setup was the lyr 3 with vintage tubes and lcd2 classic.


----------



## Sean_MR

chef8489 said:


> Depends what tube you use. The stock tube is pretty neutral. Vintage tubes add more warmth. My fav setup was the lyr 3 with vintage tubes and lcd2 classic.


So you’re saying that with the stock tubes, the Lyr 3 would actually have a similar sound signature to the 789?


----------



## adydula

No....the Lyr 3 with the stock Tungsol is much better than the THX amps....have both here...and the stock tube is pretty good as is....

Try it you will like it!

Alex


----------



## Sean_MR

adydula said:


> No....the Lyr 3 with the stock Tungsol is much better than the THX amps....have both here...and the stock tube is pretty good as is....
> 
> Try it you will like it!
> 
> Alex


Is “Tungsol” the same as “JJ 6SN7” it says on the website?  I don’t know much about tubes.  And so you would say the Lyr 3 is definitely warmer and less bright than the 789?


----------



## adydula (Aug 17, 2020)

This is the stock tube I got with mine, its a TungSol not a JJ brand. The tube Schiit included in mine was a Russian re-issue, JJ is a different "brand". 

The Lyr 3 is definitly the smoother of the two amps for sure...I sold my THX amp and still have and use it every day...


----------



## chef8489

Its still an amazing am even with stock tube, but truly shines with vintage. Its fun to roll tubes.


----------



## kman1211

adydula said:


> This is the stock tube I got with mine, its a TungSol not a JJ brand.



They don't have those tubes anymore, it's just the JJ's now as the stock tube.


----------



## adydula

Thats very possible....still an ok tube in the Lyr3


----------



## Sean_MR

kman1211 said:


> They don't have those tubes anymore, it's just the JJ's now as the stock tube.


Ok thanks for the info.  So would you still say the above is true regarding the Lyr 3 vs 789?


----------



## adydula

Sean_MR said:


> Ok thanks for the info.  So would you still say the above is true regarding the Lyr 3 vs 789?


IMO, yes..


----------



## kman1211

Sean_MR said:


> Ok thanks for the info.  So would you still say the above is true regarding the Lyr 3 vs 789?



Yeah I think Schiit ran out of stock, they used to have two options, some old russian tube and the tung-sol for a bit extra. Now they just have JJ's. You can always get tung-sol's, etc. elsewhere though. Never heard the 789 but the Lyr 3 was my favorite amp I've owned.


----------



## Sean_MR

kman1211 said:


> Yeah I think Schiit ran out of stock, they used to have two options, some old russian tube and the tung-sol for a bit extra. Now they just have JJ's. You can always get tung-sol's, etc. elsewhere though. Never heard the 789 but the Lyr 3 was my favorite amp I've owned.


Favorite amp ever?  Wow that’s quite the compliment!  Definitely thinking about trying it.  Now just gotta figure out how I would place it, because stacking on top of a Bifrost 2 seems risky heat-wise.


----------



## kman1211

Sean_MR said:


> Favorite amp ever?  Wow that’s quite the compliment!  Definitely thinking about trying it.  Now just gotta figure out how I would place it, because stacking on top of a Bifrost 2 seems risky heat-wise.



Of what I've owned. I heard some amps that were more expensive that I liked more, but of what I've owned this was my favorite. It has a microdetail to it and other subtleties to the sound my other amps didn't making it sound more complete and more satisfying across a wider range of listening levels. This is something you appreciate with more listening. I need to get a Lyr 3 again soon sadly had to sell my first one due to hard financial times. I do have a Bifrost 2 though, first time I didn't have the bifrost 2 so curious how it will sound with it.


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 17, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Hi all, considering getting a Lyr 3, coming from a 789.  Just had a question I would love some input on.
> I’ve heard the Lyr 3 is considered pretty bright for a tube amp. But _relative_ to the 789, it should still be much warmer right?  Also, how do the highs of the Lyr 3 compare to highs of the 789?


Hey Sean_MR.

Glad to see that you are thinking about getting a Lyr 3.  I've owned one for about a month now and I couldn't be happier with it. It is one of the best sounding amps I've ever heard.

I wouldn't say it's any warmer than the 789, but it most certainly sounds better in just about evey way to my ears! 

While it is slightly on the brighter side of purely neutral, it's SQ is so clean that I don't find the little bit of extra brightness it has to be fatiguing at all. And I found that some of that brightness was coming from the stock JJ tube.  The NOS Sylvania 6SN7 tube I'm currently using eliminated almost all of the extra brightness, and it now sounds simply amazing!


----------



## JamminVMI

Sean_MR said:


> Is “Tungsol” the same as “JJ 6SN7” it says on the website?  I don’t know much about tubes.  And so you would say the Lyr 3 is definitely warmer and less bright than the 789?


I got my Lyr3 a few months after release, with both the Russian NOS 6N8S and New TungSol 6SN7. A friend has the 789, so I’ve spent time with it (and I findit quite bright), and the Lyr is more accurate than bright, and warmer with some tubes. But accurate is what I’m looking for, or even a touch of warmth, but not bright. For that! i love the Lyr. I’ve also listened to the JJ (bought one at the Schittr when they were first offered. My tubes of choice are a Baldwin-labeled sylvania, and the JJ, thus far. 6SN7s are readily available, and not overly expensive. But you don’t NEED to go there. Give it a go!


----------



## XERO1

Sean_MR said:


> (also thanks to @XERO1 for helping me open my mind away from chasing measurements and towards enjoying the sound  )


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 18, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Favorite amp ever?  Wow that’s quite the compliment!  Definitely thinking about trying it.  Now just gotta figure out how I would place it, because stacking on top of a Bifrost 2 seems risky heat-wise.



I was a bit concerned about stacking Lyr 3 on BF2 and asked on about any others that might be concerned.  Jason Stoddard replied and stated that it is perfectly fine to do so, as it was deined to be stacked and if they were the slightest bit concerned they wouldn't offer a 5 year warranty.  Several other owners of this fabulous pair chimed in saying it was a non-issue.  I've had mine stacked since the introduction of BF2 and have not experienced any issues.


----------



## Sean_MR

XERO1 said:


> I wouldn't say it's any warmer than the 789, but it most certainly sounds better in just about evey way to my ears!


Wait, it's _not_ warmer than the 789? Right when I thought I was finally beginning to understand things 

I'm assuming this is due to my gap in audio knowledge again, but how can a class AB hybrid-tube amp _*not*_ be warmer than the renowned "clinical and sterile" 789?  Also, if it's not warmer than the 789, does that also imply that it has the same sound signature as the 789?

I'm confused but I'm sure there are (hopefully) quite simple explanations to my confusion


----------



## chef8489

Sean_MR said:


> Wait, it's _not_ warmer than the 789? Right when I thought I was finally beginning to understand things
> 
> I'm assuming this is due to my gap in audio knowledge again, but how can a class AB hybrid-tube amp _*not*_ be warmer than the renowned "clinical and sterile" 789?  Also, if it's not warmer than the 789, does that also imply that it has the same sound signature as the 789?
> 
> I'm confused but I'm sure there are (hopefully) quite simple explanations to my confusion


No it doesn't have the same sound signature. Best way is to hear it for yourself.


----------



## adydula

Been running my Schiit Stack like this for "years"....



Alex


----------



## G0rt

adydula said:


> Been running my Schiit Stack like this for "years"....
> 
> Alex



I like all my Schiit, a lot, but I love my Lyr.


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 18, 2020)

G0rt said:


> I like all my Schiit, a lot, but I love my Lyr.


Me too! 😍

I think it is the best sounding mid-sized amp Jason has designed so far.

Plus, the fact that it _doesn't_ run as hot as an oven is just icing on an already delicious cake.


----------



## koover (Aug 18, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Wait, it's _not_ warmer than the 789? Right when I thought I was finally beginning to understand things
> 
> I'm assuming this is due to my gap in audio knowledge again, but how can a class AB hybrid-tube amp _*not*_ be warmer than the renowned "clinical and sterile" 789?  Also, if it's not warmer than the 789, does that also imply that it has the same sound signature as the 789?
> 
> I'm confused but I'm sure there are (hopefully) quite simple explanations to my confusion


I’ve owned my LYR3 for well over a year and couldn’t be happier. I also own the Mjolnir2 from Schiit and that amp has basically become obsolete for me. I was the happiest person in the world with my MJ2 but now? ....it’s solely used as a base to stack the LYR3 on top of it. Also, tube rolling is so much easier with the LYR3 and IMO, the tubes are cheaper and easier to buy then what I was paying for when rolling with the MJ2. Additionally, you only need 1 tube in the LYR3 versus 2. I have t even talked about the sound qualities but the attributes I just listed is a good starting point. To me, the LYR3 is a better sounding amp as it’s more neutral with some coloration based on what tube you’re using. Luckily for me, I literally have 50+ tubes to roll into this baby and the fun I’m having is habitual and fun. It’s a great sounding amp and for the money? It’s hard to beat for my ears. As everyone’s been saying, you just have to hear it for yourself.


----------



## JamminVMI

Sean_MR said:


> Wait, it's _not_ warmer than the 789? Right when I thought I was finally beginning to understand things
> 
> I'm assuming this is due to my gap in audio knowledge again, but how can a class AB hybrid-tube amp _*not*_ be warmer than the renowned "clinical and sterile" 789?  Also, if it's not warmer than the 789, does that also imply that it has the same sound signature as the 789?
> 
> I'm confused but I'm sure there are (hopefully) quite simple explanations to my confusion


Sorry that the answers and opinions we’re giving are making you feel like you’re playing Whack-a-Mole (All our ears, sources, tubes and music are different). But whilst our words vary, we’re all REALLY HAPPY with this medium-sized one-tube wonder that is Lyr 3.

Schiit has this try before you buy thing, and you’re a fellow Californian, so a trip to the Schittr might also not be out of the question. Have a listen yourself - we’d all enjoy hearing your impression, and I hope you will enjoy Lyr like we all do! Even though I lived 3 miles from the Schiitr at the time, I bought and returned a Jot, because it seemed overly bright, and returned it and bought Lyr. The small restocking fee was well worth it. 

We all think you’ll love Lyr.


----------



## FLTWS

I could easily part with my MJ2 but not my LYR3. Problem is I got a couple thousand in pricey 6DJ8 type tubes. I've thought all along it's not just the circuit design but that it's the use of 6SN7 types in LYR3, there's just something so engaging about the sound.


----------



## adydula

I would guess 90% circuit, 10% tube.


----------



## XERO1

adydula said:


> I would guess 90% circuit, 10% tube.


That sounds about right.


----------



## tafens

Sean_MR said:


> Hi all, considering getting a Lyr 3, coming from a 789.  Just had a question I would love some input on.
> I’ve heard the Lyr 3 is considered pretty bright for a tube amp. But _relative_ to the 789, it should still be much warmer right?  Also, how do the highs of the Lyr 3 compare to highs of the 789?
> 
> (also thanks to @XERO1 for helping me open my mind away from chasing measurements and towards enjoying the sound  )



I have the Lyr3 (used both with internal multibit DAC card and later a Bifrost2) and have never thought of it as bright. At least with the (then) stock Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB tube - which I still use today - and the HD6XX headphones.

Tube rolling can make a lot of difference to the sound though, the Lyr3 answers very well to tube rolling in my experience.

(@XERO1 is right; measurements or no measurements - whatever you do, don’t forget to enjoy the music  )


----------



## Maishar

Ripper2860 said:


> I was a bit concerned about stacking Lyr 3 on BF2 and asked on about any others that might be concerned.  Jason Stoddard replied and stated that it is perfectly fine to do so, as it was deined to be stacked and if they were the slightest bit concerned they wouldn't offer a 5 year warranty.  Several other owners of this fabulous pair chimed in saying it was a non-issue.  I've had mine stacked since the introduction of BF2 and have not experienced any issues.



Well, if you are concerned and you also drink wine, I have a solution for you...


----------



## tafens

Sean_MR said:


> Favorite amp ever?  Wow that’s quite the compliment!  Definitely thinking about trying it.  Now just gotta figure out how I would place it, because stacking on top of a Bifrost 2 seems risky heat-wise.



I put some extra rubber feet between them, with those in place the Bifrost2 barely feels warm.

These are rubber feet for furniture that are supposed to be nailed or screwed in place. Turning them upside down, the built-in feet of the Lyr3 fits right in and it stands very stable on top of the Bifrost2 with a healthy distance (just about half an inch) in between.


----------



## Ripper2860

Maishar said:


> Well, if you are concerned and you also drink wine, I have a solution for you...



While I do enjoy a good wine, I went this route instead.


----------



## Sean_MR

Ok I get it I get it haha, I’ll try out the Lyr!  Just have to wait a bit to save up the money.  But you all have convinced me!  Once I get a bit more savings I’ll be ordering one


----------



## quimbo

I recently added these - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081KVKCZ9/


----------



## bcowen

Maishar said:


> Well, if you are concerned and you also drink wine, I have a solution for you...




ROFL!!!  And to think of all the time I wasted making a rack....all for nothing.


----------



## nasty nate

bcowen said:


> ROFL!!!  And to think of all the time I wasted making a rack....all for nothing.



Love the little slot for the Loki! Clever  😏


----------



## bcowen

nasty nate said:


> Love the little slot for the Loki! Clever  😏



Thanks!  That was actually an afterthought when I realized I had enough room to drive a truck through above the Bifrost.


----------



## nasty nate

I stack my Lyr 3 directly on my Bifrost 2 without issue - the Bifrost does not get that warm imo


----------



## piakoB

Received my Lyr 3 in the mail today. Really nice amp and am enjoying how my music sounds on it. Still in the process of building my system out fully. This sounds a lot better than the solid state section of the DacMagic Plus I was using as a 3-in-1. Amazed how most music doesn't require much more volume than 10-12 o'clock on the knob. Pop and 70s rock music sounds great with a really good timbre of the instruments and a good soundstage. Made some of my grunge music recordings come to life like Alice In Chains compared to a solid state. Still getting used to opera and classical music sound because the Lyr 3 has changed my perception of recordings I've known and listened to on other setups. I'm not sure if I'm adjusting or not but opera and classical sound more fluid with this amp and the increase in detail is amazing, but takes a little bit to get used to. Happy with the Lyr and the reviews I saw online suggested the Lyr over the Valhalla. Glad I did some research before deciding. Will be upgrading the power cable and interconnects in the future as well as getting a power conditioner.


----------



## adydula (Aug 20, 2020)

Congrats on your Lyr 3..its a stellar amp...and should povide you with many years of enjoyment...it has enough power to drive most any future headphone you might buy! Wheras the Vahalla 2 . another good amp, is more orientated toward higher impedance cans, which it looks like you have....but in the future if you get cans that are 32 ohms, 47 ohms etc the Lyr 3 will work very well etc..

Enjoy the music!
Alex


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> Here you go, assuming this matches your tester. Download and open '600tables.pdf.'  No settings for a 6SN7, but has settings for a VT231 which is the same thing.
> 
> http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/knight/600tube/tables


Hey!!

I just saw this!!! MANY THANKS!!!
Alex
:>)


----------



## adydula

adydula said:


> Hey!!
> 
> I just saw this!!! MANY THANKS!!!
> Alex
> :>)


Tested the 12 6SN7's I have...and was surprised at the results!


----------



## adydula

adydula said:


> Tested the 12 6SN7's I have...and was surprised at the results!


----------



## QuantumKat

Question for y'all: My Tung-Sol tube busted so I replaced it with an Electro-Harmonix 6SN7. Problem is: I have to crank the Lyr 3 all the way up to hear anything and when I do that, it just sounds terrible and distorted.

Did I get a bad tube? Am I doing something wrong? I'm lost. Thanks!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 17, 2020)

Welcome!

I suspect the tube is bad.  What you described sounds like a very low emissions tube.  Do you have access to a tester to confirm tube is OK?  If not, a refund/replacement is the best  course of action.


----------



## QuantumKat

Thank you sir. Unfortunately, I don't have a tester. Guess I'll just have to send this one back to TubeStore.

Since you're here. Do you think it makes sense to upgrade to a Bifrost 2 if I have the Multibit DAC in my Lyr 3 already? Looks like a lot of you use the Bifrost instead.


----------



## adydula

Do you think it makes sense to upgrade to a Bifrost 2 if I have the Multibit DAC in my Lyr 3 already? Looks like a lot of you use the Bifrost instead. 

Thats a great question....IMO it depends on how serious you are in your gear and listening etc..

If your really enjoying what you have now then thats great...will the external bring you an order of magnitude better listening experience, IMO no it will not.

Depending on where your going in this crazy pastime the B2 provides paths that the interanl MB dac cant....but with your SE only Lyr 3 you would not be able to use some
of the functinality the B2 brings to the table.

I have the Lyr 3 here and use it with and external B2 with SE RCA cables...and its stellar IMO....and I also have the balanced outs connected to a second amp, the Schiit Jotenheim so for 
me in my use case its very nice along with the other design technicalities of the Bifrost 2..

Things to think about!

Alex


----------



## QuantumKat

adydula said:


> Do you think it makes sense to upgrade to a Bifrost 2 if I have the Multibit DAC in my Lyr 3 already? Looks like a lot of you use the Bifrost instead.
> 
> Thats a great question....IMO it depends on how serious you are in your gear and listening etc..
> 
> ...


Sounds like fun. If I can get a good tube again, I think I'll take the plunge. So what's the path? I have to plug in the Bifrost to my PC and the Lyr to the Bifrost?


----------



## adydula

QuantumKat said:


> Sounds like fun. If I can get a good tube again, I think I'll take the plunge. So what's the path? I have to plug in the Bifrost to my PC and the Lyr to the Bifrost?


OK it sound like your new to this stuff??

The typical chain is music on your pc (cds, ripped files, streaming etc) goes out a USB cable to the dac. There are other ways to get the digital bits from your pc to the dac, like optical and coax etc...but for the most part the USB connection takes advantage of the Bifrost 2's Unison USB implementaton....

Then the output of the dac goes out to the LYR 3 via a pair of RCA cables...Voila your connected. 

If you get a different amp in the future with balanced capabilities or inputs then you would use balanced cables from the Dac to this new balanced amp.

Then of course you need to go into your PC if windows and make sure the Bifrost 2 dac is running in exclusive mode....and in your music player or streaming software
to set up for "bitperfect" mode so you get the best output from the pc to your "stuff"..

Good luck!

Alex


----------



## QuantumKat (Sep 17, 2020)

adydula said:


> OK it sound like your new to this stuff??
> 
> The typical chain is music on your pc (cds, ripped files, streaming etc) goes out a USB cable to the dac. There are other ways to get the digital bits from your pc to the dac, like optical and coax etc...but for the most part the USB connection takes advantage of the Bifrost 2's Unison USB implementaton....
> 
> ...


Yes, just got this stuff a few months ago. I have a Fireface UFX II+ hooked up to my PC for making music, but I wanted something for my laptop for listening.


----------



## QuantumKat

Ah one last thing. Anyone using Sonarworks with their Lyr?

I have HD800S then I use Sonarworks. Sounds right?


----------



## adydula (Sep 17, 2020)

That software is for headphones not amps per say...you dont need Sonarworks at all. The only reason for it is to change the overall freq response from the stock "sound" to something Sonarworks thinks is "better" YMMV.

Alex


----------



## QuantumKat

adydula said:


> That software is for headphones not amps per say...you dont need Sonarworks at all. The only reason for it is to change the overall freq response from the stock "sound" to something Sonarworks thinks is "better" YMMV.
> 
> Alex


Yes, I'm aware it's for the headphones. I was just wondering if people used SW in conjunction with their setups. My post was very poorly worded.

My short experience, this far, is that I can't imagine not using my HD800S without SW. Sounds totally different.


----------



## adydula

Well we all have our own opinions and experiences.....some like the sound the way it is, others like playing with equlization..no wrong or right.

Enjoy the music!

Alex


----------



## cgb3

QuantumKat said:


> Ah one last thing. Anyone using Sonarworks with their Lyr?
> 
> I have HD800S then I use Sonarworks. Sounds right?


Sonarworks is for people who aren't familiar with equalizers.

Excellent software eq is available free: https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/
Here's a link for eq presets for various headphones: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq (go to the results folder).

Win 10 only (as far as I know).


----------



## cgb3

Anyone know what size set screw is on the Lyr 3 volume knob?

I've tried both metric and inch hex keys, no joy.


----------



## Bboy500

Can someone here tell me if the multi-bit is worth the extra $100?

I am trying to stretch my budget and upgrade to the Lyr 3 from my E30/L30 stack since I got my Aryas, and that $100 is certainly a difference maker for me right now =/

I could keep my E30 as well and just get the amp portion, but I'm not sure how well that would work?


----------



## Odin412

Bboy500 said:


> Can someone here tell me if the multi-bit is worth the extra $100?



Short answer: Yes. To my ears the multibit sounds noticeably better than the delta-sigma converter.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 21, 2020)

cgb3 said:


> Anyone know what size set screw is on the Lyr 3 volume knob?
> 
> I've tried both metric and inch hex keys, no joy.



I used a 1/16" hex key to remove the volume control knob on my Lyr 3.  Has to be very tight tolerance and well machined wrench.

Here's what I bought. 

https://amazon.com/Bondhus-15903-L-...lbl&pd_rd_i=B003JMJN0O&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_1_1_t


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> I used a 1/16" hex key to remove the volume control knob on my Lyr 3.  Has to be very tight tolerance and well machined wrench.
> 
> Here's what I bought.
> 
> https://amazon.com/Bondhus-15903-L-...lbl&pd_rd_i=B003JMJN0O&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_1_1_t


Thanks so much!

4 sets, including an Allen branded, and nothing was spot on. Amazon will shoot me the new wrench Wed.


----------



## porchwizard

Ripper2860 said:


> I used a 1/16" hex key to remove the volume control knob on my Lyr 3.  Has to be very tight tolerance and well machined wrench.
> 
> Here's what I bought.
> 
> https://amazon.com/Bondhus-15903-L-...lbl&pd_rd_i=B003JMJN0O&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_1_1_t


Definitely 1/16th on mine.


----------



## JamminVMI (Sep 21, 2020)

Bboy500 said:


> Can someone here tell me if the multi-bit is worth the extra $100?
> 
> I am trying to stretch my budget and upgrade to the Lyr 3 from my E30/L30 stack since I got my Aryas, and that $100 is certainly a difference maker for me right now =/
> 
> I could keep my E30 as well and just get the amp portion, but I'm not sure how well that would work?


I, for one, much prefer outboard DACs (and since I don’t use any USB sources, I guess I have to use outboard...). With that out of the way, Multibit IS worth it, to my ears. If you get the amp and keep the E30, then it’s your call (and wallet) on if/when you upgrade the DAC. No need to build Rome in a day...


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey there Lyr 3 owners, question for the panel: has anyone here tried rolling a pair of C3Gs via adapter into their Lyr? 

I know this tube has a great reputation substituting for 6SN7s in other applications so curious to know how it’d do here...


----------



## Zachik

JoeDoe said:


> Hey there Lyr 3 owners, question for the panel: has anyone here tried rolling a pair of C3Gs via adapter into their Lyr?
> 
> I know this tube has a great reputation substituting for 6SN7s in other applications so curious to know how it’d do here...


6SN7 is a Double Triode tube
C3g is a Pentode tube

So... as far as I know - even with adapter it will not work. 
I am curious: where (which amp) do people use C3g to substitute 6SN7?


----------



## JoeDoe

Zachik said:


> 6SN7 is a Double Triode tube
> C3g is a Pentode tube
> 
> So... as far as I know - even with adapter it will not work.
> I am curious: where (which amp) do people use C3g to substitute 6SN7?



Lots of guys seem to run a pair of C3gs into a 6sn7 via adapter. Little dot and Glenn threads are ripe with impressions


----------



## Zachik

JoeDoe said:


> Lots of guys seem to run a pair of C3gs into a 6sn7 via adapter. Little dot and Glenn threads are ripe with impressions


I have a Glenn OTL amp, but it has dedicated sockets for the C3g tubes. 
I did not know an adapter could allow for 2 x C3g tubes in a 6SN7 socket.


----------



## RedBull

Elise amps has bee using c3g with adapter in place of 6sn7 sockets


----------



## wenbinbin2010 (Dec 28, 2020)

Should the Lyr 3 be hot to the point of pain after ~3-5 seconds, after being turned on for 1-2 hours? I just received this unit secondhand. It is reasonable ventilated. Running a Ken-rad 6SN7 black glass. Power cord is some lower gauge (higher quality) one I had from a previous Decware amp, not sure brand. I do expect the amp itself to be hot, but even the volume knob is noticeably hot (not painful like the rest of the chassis, but definitely hot).


----------



## supersonic395

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Should the Lyr 3 be hot to the point of pain after ~3-5 seconds, after being turned on for 1-2 hours? I just received this unit secondhand. It is reasonable ventilated. Running a Ken-rad 6SN7 black glass. Power cord is some higher gauge/quality one I had from a previous Decware amp, not sure brand. I do expect the amp itself to be hot, but even the volume knob is noticeably hot (not painful like the rest of the chassis, but definitely hot).



Maybe you should try it with the official power supply Schiit ships it with as a first step.


----------



## kman1211 (Dec 28, 2020)

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Should the Lyr 3 be hot to the point of pain after ~3-5 seconds, after being turned on for 1-2 hours? I just received this unit secondhand. It is reasonable ventilated. Running a Ken-rad 6SN7 black glass. Power cord is some higher gauge/quality one I had from a previous Decware amp, not sure brand. I do expect the amp itself to be hot, but even the volume knob is noticeably hot (not painful like the rest of the chassis, but definitely hot).



My experience it shouldn’t get quite that hot, it only really got warm to slightly hot. Sounds like it’s getting Lyr 2 hot, because that was how my Lyr 2 was in terms of heat. I used a nice thick power cord on mine and never had issues. You mean lower gauge? As lower means thicker wire and high quality power cables tend to be thicker. Could be the tube making it run hotter, some tubes do run hotter, not familiar with that particular tube.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

kman1211 said:


> My experience it shouldn’t get quite that hot, it only really got warm to slightly hot. Sounds like it’s getting Lyr 2 hot, because that was how my Lyr 2 was in terms of heat. I used a nice thick power cord on mine and never had issues. You mean lower gauge? As lower means thicker wire and high quality power cables tend to be thicker. Could be the tube making it run hotter, some tubes do run hotter, not familiar with that particular tube.



Sorry definitely meant lower gauge cord! The AWG numbers always throw me off with them being inverse to the thickness. I'll try switching around power cords and tubes as well to see if either makes a difference.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 29, 2020)

Is Lyr 3 stacked atop of another piece of gear?  Also, is there clearance on each side to allow cool air to enter side vents?

Do try another tube as some do run hotter than others.  Best tip for keeping it cool is to use a socket saver to lift the tube up a bit.  Makes a huge difference in my Lyr 3 temps.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ripper2860 said:


> Is Lyr 3 stacked atop of another piece of gear?  Also, is there clearance on each side to allow cool air to enter side vents?
> 
> Do try another tube as some do run hooter than others.  Best tip for keeping it cool is to use a socket saver to lift the tube up a bit.  Makes a huge difference in my Lyr 3 temps.


Just turned mine on. I’ll give you a case temp in 30 minutes. Mine is on top of Bifrost 2 with stock feet.


----------



## kman1211

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Sorry definitely meant lower gauge cord! The AWG numbers always throw me off with them being inverse to the thickness. I'll try switching around power cords and tubes as well to see if either makes a difference.



They throw me off at times too. Like others says could be some ventilation or the specific tube. I don’t see how the power cable would affect the temperature honestly. Some tubes just seem to make the tube amp it’s in just run hotter.


----------



## FLTWS

None of my Schiit (tube or SS) has ever gotten so hot I couldn't lay my hand on top of the metal and leave it there. If you've got adequate air circulation around all sides and over the top use a socket saver as @Ripper2860  says, to circulate more air around the tube. Also try some footers to raise it up a bit and allow more airflow underneath the unit.


----------



## scottshields

FLTWS said:


> None of my Schiit (tube or SS) has ever gotten so hot I couldn't lay my hand on top of the metal and leave it there. If you've got adequate air circulation around all sides and over the top use a socket saver as @Ripper2860  says, to circulate more air around the tube. Also try some footers to raise it up a bit and allow more airflow underneath the unit.


Same here I had a Lyr3 over the summer stacked on top of a Biforst two with stock feet and even when the afternoon sun would shine in the window on it it never got so hot I couldn't keep my hand on it.


----------



## JamminVMI

JamminVMI said:


> Just turned mine on. I’ll give you a case temp in 30 minutes. Mine is on top of Bifrost 2 with stock feet.


...and my evening went to heck, but I did hit Lyr 3 with my laser thermometer. Top at 98F/36.7C knob front at 95F/35C. Good and warm, but not too hot to touch (unlike my Asgard 2, after it’s been on for a while).


----------



## Maishar

wenbinbin2010 said:


> Should the Lyr 3 be hot to the point of pain after ~3-5 seconds, after being turned on for 1-2 hours? I just received this unit secondhand. It is reasonable ventilated. Running a Ken-rad 6SN7 black glass. Power cord is some lower gauge (higher quality) one I had from a previous Decware amp, not sure brand. I do expect the amp itself to be hot, but even the volume knob is noticeably hot (not painful like the rest of the chassis, but definitely hot).



Mine also gets VERY hot.
It sits about 2 inches above a Bitfrost 2.
It's all a matter of room temperature. When my room is 84 degrees Fahrenheit (yeah, I love the heat) the Lyr 3 is very hot and my Gungnir in the next room is impossible to touch (105-115 degrees).


----------



## supersonic395

Are there any in depth comparisons of the Lyr 3 Vs the Vali 2+ please?


----------



## Ichos

I have reviewed the Lyr 3 about one year ago and I own and currently reviewing the Vali 2+.
I don't have the time to provide an in depth comparison but the Lyr 3 is much better in every aspect.
Let's say it is the Vali 2+ in steroids.
The little amp is superb for it's price but if you can afford the Lyr 3 in the future then it is the natural step up.


----------



## supersonic395

Ichos said:


> I have reviewed the Lyr 3 about one year ago and I own and currently reviewing the Vali 2+.
> I don't have the time to provide an in depth comparison but the Lyr 3 is much better in every aspect.
> Let's say it is the Vali 2+ in steroids.
> The little amp is superb for it's price but if you can afford the Lyr 3 in the future then it is the natural step up.



Yeah definitely want the Lyr 3 as my (endgame) amp to pair with my Modius (to be replaced with a Bifrost 2 as endgame DAC, but am happy to run with the Modius for a while yet).

I'm actually waiting on Schiit to get the required part for my country so I can order it (expected by mid-January). 

I hope they also offer it in black by then 😆


----------



## tafens

supersonic395 said:


> Yeah definitely want the Lyr 3 as my (endgame) amp to pair with my Modius (to be replaced with a Bifrost 2 as endgame DAC, but am happy to run with the Modius for a while yet).



I haven’t heard the Modius, but I can say that the Bifrost2+Lyr3 combo sounds excellent to my ears using the (when I bought it) stock new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube and my HD6XX headphones.

That will probably be my main system for a long time. I don’t even really know where to go from there, I guess Yggdrasil as DAC, but for the amp? Maybe the ten tube monster Jason was talking about?


----------



## supersonic395 (Dec 29, 2020)

tafens said:


> I haven’t heard the Modius, but I can say that the Bifrost2+Lyr3 combo sounds excellent to my ears using the (when I bought it) stock new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube and my HD6XX headphones.
> 
> That will probably be my main system for a long time. I don’t even really know where to go from there, I guess Yggdrasil as DAC, but for the amp? Maybe the ten tube monster Jason was talking about?



I can't wait and I appreciate that with Schiit you can get to a very very good setup without breaking the bank.

I think with the source as flac running to a Bifrost & Lyr with those headphones (for me it's the Beyer Amiron), the cost to get noticeable improvements from there just gets wildly out of control before one could notice a substantial difference (barring the flavour/colour of different cans for example).


----------



## Zachik

tafens said:


> I don’t even really know where to go from there, I guess Yggdrasil as DAC, but for the amp? Maybe the ten tube monster Jason was talking about?


Why do you assume your next step up *has* to be within the Schiit product portfolio?
Schiit's products are great (I love my Lyr3), but there are other great products from other brands...


----------



## showme99

tafens said:


> I haven’t heard the Modius, but I can say that the Bifrost2+Lyr3 combo sounds excellent to my ears using the (when I bought it) stock new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube and my HD6XX headphones.
> 
> That will probably be my main system for a long time. I don’t even really know where to go from there, I guess Yggdrasil as DAC, but for the amp? Maybe the ten tube monster Jason was talking about?


Wouldn't the next step up be the Mjolnir?


----------



## Ichos

Not necessarily because the Mjolnir 2 is more forward and kind of bright compared to the Lyr.


----------



## tafens

Zachik said:


> Why do you assume your next step up *has* to be within the Schiit product portfolio?
> Schiit's products are great (I love my Lyr3), but there are other great products from other brands...



Of course, but this _is_ a Schiit thread after all 

But as said, I seriously don’t know where to go from here, or indeed _if_ I need to go somewhere at all. I guess the next logical step would be to look at headphones. As good as the HD6XX is, it would be nice with a somewhat larger soundstage (keeping most other aspects of the sound, of course )


----------



## Zachik

tafens said:


> I guess the next logical step would be to look at headphones. As good as the HD6XX is, it would be nice with a somewhat larger soundstage (keeping most other aspects of the sound, of course )


I highly recommend ZMF headphones. The Aeolus is probably HD6XX but improved in every way possible (including the sound stage). The Verite would be a somewhat different signature, with technicalities being even better... However, Lyr3 is not the ideal amp for those - they beg for an OTL amp!
Just my 2 cents (which could translate to $2K+  )


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 30, 2020)

Valhalla 2 is an OTL amp.  Just sayin'...

😄

Not saying it or a Crack would be a good match as I don't have ZMF headphones, but OTL doesn't have to be $2K+.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> OTL doesn't have to be $2K+


I meant ZMF cans + OTL amp together would be $2K+


----------



## Ripper2860

I could definitely see that!  😄


----------



## supersonic395

I'm planning to pair the Lyr 3 with the Bifrost 2, but I have a question about the Lyr 3 phono input module option - is this effectively a second RCA input?

Would it affect the Lyr 3's amp quality by getting this module?

Basically I plan to use the Bifrost 2 to the Lyr 3 via the standard RCA input and then with additional phono input module, I would be able to connect another RCA source (i.e. my Walkman)? in scenarios where I might take my amp with me somewhere but wouldn't be able to bring the Bifrost 2


----------



## cgb3

supersonic395 said:


> I'm planning to pair the Lyr 3 with the Bifrost 2, but I have a question about the Lyr 3 phono input module option - is this effectively a second RCA input?
> 
> Would it affect the Lyr 3's amp quality by getting this module?
> 
> Basically I plan to use the Bifrost 2 to the Lyr 3 via the standard RCA input and then with additional phono input module, I would be able to connect another RCA source (i.e. my Walkman)? in scenarios where I might take my amp with me somewhere but wouldn't be able to bring the Bifrost 2


Phono inputs should only be used to connect turntables. They use a different EQ curve to comply with the curve used to record vinyl.

If you only need additional RCA input jacks, purchase a splitter. Turn off the source component you're not using at the time.


----------



## supersonic395

cgb3 said:


> Phono inputs should only be used to connect turntables. They use a different EQ curve to comply with the curve used to record vinyl.
> 
> If you only need additional RCA input jacks, purchase a splitter. Turn off the source component you're not using at the time.



Ah okay cool now I understand, thank you (also saving me $100 😁)


----------



## JamminVMI

cgb3 said:


> Phono inputs should only be used to connect turntables. They use a different EQ curve to comply with the curve used to record vinyl.
> 
> If you only need additional RCA input jacks, purchase a splitter. Turn off the source component you're not using at the time.


Or a Saga... (not saving you money, I’m afraid).


----------



## Barnstormer13

Zachik said:


> I highly recommend ZMF headphones. The Aeolus is probably HD6XX but improved in every way possible (including the sound stage). The Verite would be a somewhat different signature, with technicalities being even better... However, Lyr3 is not the ideal amp for those - they beg for an OTL amp!
> Just my 2 cents (which could translate to $2K+  )



personal opinion here only, but I think the Auteur is a little closer to the 6XX as far as overall tonality. That said, both the Aeolus and Auteur are great upgrades to the 6XX.

The Lyr 3 will make both ZMFs sound great, but in my experience a decent full tube amp adds magic.


----------



## duncan4791 (Jan 5, 2021)

supersonic395 said:


> I would be able to connect another RCA source (i.e. my Walkman)? in scenarios where I might take my amp with me somewhere but wouldn't be able to bring the Bifrost 2



The RCA card in the Ragnorok is available and installable in a Lyr 3. Send a request to orders@schiit.com and request the card. I have one self installed in my Asgard 3. It $20 plus tax and shipping.


----------



## Zachik

duncan4791 said:


> The RCA card in the Ragnorok is available and installable in a Lyr 3. Send a request to orders@schiit.com and request the card. I have one self installed in my Asgard 3. It $20 plus tax and shipping.


I did not know such option existed! Schiit definitely NOT promoting or advertising it. Interesting...


----------



## XERO1 (Jan 5, 2021)

Zachik said:


> I did not know such option existed! Schiit definitely NOT promoting or advertising it. Interesting...


I was the one who convinced Jason to (_*very*_ briefly) start offering them as a listed option to buy last year.

But the fit of the module is _*very tight *_and of the 3 amps (not counting the Rag 2) that can accept the modules, only the Asgard 3 has a top that is user removable, so he decided to kill the option, at least on the website.

I also tried to convince him to offer it as a pre-installed option, since this would give the amps a very handy, switchable second RCA input, but he never showed much interest it doing that, so I dropped it.

A real missed opportunity to easily add a very useful feature, if you ask me.


----------



## Zachik

XERO1 said:


> A real missed opportunity to easily add a very useful feature, if you ask me.


Totally agree with you!


----------



## duncan4791

I completely missed the fact the Jot and Lyr don't have screw on tops. This is a problem since I want to get the Lyr 3 and was hoping to move the RCA card from the Asgard to the Lyr.


----------



## tafens

XERO1 said:


> But the fit of the module is _*very tight *_and of the 3 amps (not counting the Rag 2) that can accept the modules, only the Asgard 3 has a top that is user removable, so he decided to kill the option, at least on the website.



The Lyr3 and Jotunheim tops can be removed, but it is a hassle, a very tight fit slide-lock mechanism. However, here is at least one video somewhere on YouTube that shows how to self-install a card in an original Jotunheim. The Lyr3 top is attached in the exact same way.



XERO1 said:


> I also tried to convince him to offer it as a pre-installed option, since this would give the amps a very handy, switchable second RCA input, but he never showed much interest it doing that, so I dropped it.



As i understand it, it is possible to get the RCA card pre-installed if you ask for it specifically when and/or before you order.

I think the reason they don’t have it as a selectable option is because if they had they’d get a lot of questions about why they don’t have it listed among the other cards on the store (because it’s such a tight fit as not to be really user installable).


----------



## XERO1

tafens said:


> The Lyr3 and Jotunheim tops can be removed, but it is a hassle, a very tight fit slide-lock mechanism. However, here is at least one video somewhere on YouTube that shows how to self-install a card in an original Jotunheim. The Lyr3 top is attached in the exact same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but that's such a PITA.  IMO, an RCA input card should have been the default option for *all* of the modular amps from *day one*.


----------



## Zachik

XERO1 said:


> Yeah, but that's such a PITA.  IMO, an RCA input card should have been the default option for *all* of the modular amps from *day one*.


Agreed. Also, I cannot understand why it would be a tighter fit than DAC card. Should have no electronics on it (or minimal passives). Easier to do smaller than the DAC offerings!


----------



## tafens

XERO1 said:


> Yeah, but that's such a PITA.  IMO, an RCA input card should have been the default option for *all* of the modular amps from *day one*.



I agree, it would be great to have RCA input card at least as a selectable option, if not the default.


----------



## tafens

Zachik said:


> Agreed. Also, I cannot understand why it would be a tighter fit than DAC card. Should have no electronics on it (or minimal passives). Easier to do smaller than the DAC offerings!



It was probably made for the Ragnarok2 when it came out, and although it must be simple to make it smaller it might just be a case of “didn’t think about that”, or anticipated to be no demand for it in the other amps.

Maybe a reshaped RCA input card could be in the works for 2021 though?


----------



## supersonic395

Oooh a couple of Lyr 3 B stocks popped up on Schiit's website but only 115V versions grrrr


----------



## supersonic395

Any rumours or indications as to when the Lyr 3 might be available in black? 

It looks like one of the last to have the black finish option


----------



## cgb3

supersonic395 said:


> Any rumours or indications as to when the Lyr 3 might be available in black?
> 
> It looks like one of the last to have the black finish option


Not till the next version.

My thoughts: Lyr 3 is so close to being my end game amp (at least for cold weather), especially with my valve selections, I changed my system from black to silver to cordinate with the Lyr 3.

I ordered the Asgard 3 in black. Purchased the Modius in black. Picked up the Lyr 3 2nd hand. The Lyr 3 silver is gorgeous.

My Jot 2 order is for silver. At the time I replace the Modius with the Bifrost 2 (hopefully the Bifrost 3), it will be in silver.


----------



## Zachik

supersonic395 said:


> Any rumours or indications as to when the Lyr 3 might be available in black?
> 
> It looks like one of the last to have the black finish option





cgb3 said:


> Not till the next version.



I would have loved a black Lyr3...
Fingers crossed the Lyr4 will come in black and use 6SN7 tubes - I have invested quite some dough in them!


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> I would have loved a black Lyr3...
> Fingers crossed the Lyr4 will come in black and use 6SN7 tubes - I have invested quite some dough in them!



Of course my crystal ball is as well-calibrated as anyone else's (ie: a WAG ) but I'd guess the next act for the Lyr 3 would be like a Lyr 3a or Lyr 3+ or similar with perhaps some incremental circuit improvements. Not that the Lyr 3 needs it (IMO), but then I thought the Vali 2 was a pretty outstanding little amp at its price point and they 'improved' it with the Vali 2+  It would be strange (though not inconceivable) for them to move away from the 6SN7 as it is perhaps one of the best tubes around for the way it is used in the Lyr 3's circuit. Perhaps using a pair would be an upgrade with each tubes triodes connected in parallel. This would give some additional gain into high impedance headphones. The Lyr 3 has ungodly amounts of power for low impedance 'phones and plenty for even high impedance 'phones that have reasonably high sensitivity. But it becomes borderline with high impedance 'phones that are low in sensitivity (below 90 dB)...which is typically where OTL's enter the picture. The pair of tubes would also reduce the possibility of audible channel imbalance in a tube with badly mismatched triode sections.

But that would be a huge amount of redesign work for very little sonic gain, and certainly _not_ a quantum leap over the current version.  Schiit always seems to have tricks hidden up under their sleeve that nobody has yet even dreamed about, so I guess I'll just eagerly wait to be surprised.


----------



## Barnstormer13

bcowen said:


> Of course my crystal ball is as well-calibrated as anyone else's (ie: a WAG ) but I'd guess the next act for the Lyr 3 would be like a Lyr 3a or Lyr 3+ or similar with perhaps some incremental circuit improvements. Not that the Lyr 3 needs it (IMO), but then I thought the Vali 2 was a pretty outstanding little amp at its price point and they 'improved' it with the Vali 2+  It would be strange (though not inconceivable) for them to move away from the 6SN7 as it is perhaps one of the best tubes around for the way it is used in the Lyr 3's circuit. Perhaps using a pair would be an upgrade with each tubes triodes connected in parallel. This would give some additional gain into high impedance headphones. The Lyr 3 has ungodly amounts of power for low impedance 'phones and plenty for even high impedance 'phones that have reasonably high sensitivity. But it becomes borderline with high impedance 'phones that are low in sensitivity (below 90 dB)...which is typically where OTL's enter the picture. The pair of tubes would also reduce the possibility of audible channel imbalance in a tube with badly mismatched triode sections.
> 
> But that would be a huge amount of redesign work for very little sonic gain, and certainly _not_ a quantum leap over the current version. Schiit always seems to have tricks hidden up under their sleeve that nobody has yet even dreamed about, so I guess I'll just eagerly wait to be surprised.



I’d like to see a Valhalla 3 first, but with output transformers. May never happen given how expensive quality output transformers are.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> I'd guess the next act for the Lyr 3 would be like a Lyr 3a or Lyr 3+ or similar with perhaps some incremental circuit improvements. Not that the Lyr 3 needs it (IMO), but then I thought the Vali 2 was a pretty outstanding little amp at its price point and they 'improved' it with the Vali 2+  It would be strange (though not inconceivable) for them to move away from the 6SN7 as it is perhaps one of the best tubes around for the way it is used in the Lyr 3's circuit.


Yeah - small improvements, still using 6SN7, with black finish option. I will order 1 for sure!! 



bcowen said:


> Perhaps using a pair would be an upgrade with each tubes triodes connected in parallel. This would give some additional gain into high impedance headphones. The Lyr 3 has ungodly amounts of power for low impedance 'phones and plenty for even high impedance 'phones that have reasonably high sensitivity. But it becomes borderline with high impedance 'phones that are low in sensitivity (below 90 dB)...which is typically where OTL's enter the picture. The pair of tubes would also reduce the possibility of audible channel imbalance in a tube with badly mismatched triode sections.


Hope not - I stocked up with singles for the Lyr3 (and GOTL). For me - twin 6SN7 is as much a showstopper as non-6SN7 tube


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Hope not - I stocked up with singles for the Lyr3 (and GOTL). For me - twin 6SN7 is as much a showstopper as non-6SN7 tube



Then you obviously need more 6SN7's.  There's a few for sale on Ebay.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Then you obviously need more 6SN7's.  There's a few for sale on Ebay.



There is?
I thought you, @Ripper2860 and @Paladin79 had the place cleaned out by now. 
I did however manage to secure most of BangyBang’s supply. 

*ducks out of reach of flying GE’s*


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> There is?
> I thought you, @Ripper2860 and @Paladin79 had the place cleaned out by now.
> I did however manage to secure most of BangyBang’s supply.
> 
> *ducks out of reach of flying GE’s*



ROFL!  All of BangyBang's are GE's regardless of what he's relabeled them to.  You might have to assume a long-term 'duck' stance...


----------



## Ripper2860

tafens said:


> There is?
> I thought you, @Ripper2860 and @Paladin79 had the place cleaned out by now.
> I did however manage to secure most of BangyBang’s supply.
> 
> *ducks out of reach of flying GE’s*



So did I, but the money-grubbers  just keep restocking.


----------



## Paladin79 (Jan 9, 2021)

tafens said:


> There is?
> I thought you, @Ripper2860 and @Paladin79 had the place cleaned out by now.
> I did however manage to secure most of BangyBang’s supply.
> 
> *ducks out of reach of flying GE’s*


I may have purchased a 6sn7 or two from Ebay in the past, but now I only look for obscure variations of 1578 Melz, life is simpler that way.  

Of course friends and I had been buying 6sn7 equivalents for over a year for some blind testing. I want to say we have at least 90 different brands and types but we are nearly done with that and @bcowen has stopped buying tubes so there may be a few more available now.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> ... and @bcowen has stopped buying tubes so there may be a few more available now.



LOL!  But @Ripper2860 and @JKDJedi are still buying a couple hundred tubes a week (each), so no respite in sight...yet.


----------



## jonathan c

Paladin79 said:


> I may have purchased a 6sn7 or two from Ebay in the past, but now I only look for obscure variations of 1578 Melz, life is simpler that way.
> 
> Of course friends and I had been buying 6sn7 equivalents for over a year for some blind testing. I want to say we have at least 90 different brands and types but we are nearly done with that and @bcowen has stopped buying tubes so there may be a few more available now.


Blind testing?.....not blind buying?🤪


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> LOL!  But @Ripper2860 and @JKDJedi are still buying a couple hundred tubes a week (each), so no respite in sight...yet.



I have not purchased a 6SN7 or variant in months. 🙂

I've moved on to 6080 / 6AS7G and variants.  ☹️


----------



## Paladin79

jonathan c said:


> Blind testing?.....not blind buying?🤪


The buying part is over lol. I have now moved on to tempting @bcowen and @Ripper2860 with tubes that are nearly impossible to find. (56 and 58 Melz solid plate 1578's).
I let them hear one just so they could understand the quality of said tube.


----------



## Ripper2860

And then then he asks for them back! That's just mean.   😒


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> And then then he asks for them back! That's just mean.   😒



You mean he_ asked _you?  He threatened to dispatch Guido and Vinnie down to my house and then mumbled something about baseball bats and knees...


----------



## Paladin79 (Jan 9, 2021)

bcowen said:


> You mean he_ asked _you?  He threatened to dispatch Guido and Vinnie down to my house and then mumbled something about baseball bats and knees...


Different people react to different stimuli, you are both unique. Just like everybody else. 
And get the names right at least, it was Sergey and Igor!


----------



## Barnstormer13

@Ripper2860 & @bcowen- have your family members staged an intervention yet?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah.  It was tubes or them, so the family had to go. They left the dog, so it's all good.


----------



## bcowen

Barnstormer13 said:


> @Ripper2860 & @bcowen- have your family members staged an intervention yet?



Mine are stashed in so many different places I don't even know where they all are...and neither do they.


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> Mine are stashed in so many different places I don't even know where they all are...and neither do they.


Haha. Reminds me of those stories about 90+ year old dying, and the people that buy his/her house find cash from the 50's stashed inside AC outlets...


----------



## bcowen

Zachik said:


> Haha. Reminds me of those stories about 90+ year old dying, and the people that buy his/her house find cash from the 50's stashed inside AC outlets...



LOL!  Hadn't even thought of that.  Might be tough to get a 6SN7 in there, and a 1578 would probably blow up the house. BUT.....a 6922 may fit.  Need to go count how many outlets I have...


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Jan 9, 2021)

Either way, @Ripper2860 & @bcowen thanks for buying so many tubes that those of us with less understanding family members and less storage space can benefit from your knowledge. Over the last couple years I’ve bought several 6SN7 tubes based on your opinions.

...Though it is possible the increase in tube prices over the last two years may be the result of some irresponsible hoarding....


----------



## Paladin79

My wife never questions anything I do with electronics. I use 6sn7 as the driver in amps I designed and those pay for all tubes, components, and woodworking equipment. My latest loaner amp will look a bit like this.




Purple heart and curly maple with maple splines.


----------



## Barnstormer13

Paladin79 said:


> My wife never questions anything I do with electronics. I use 6sn7 as the driver in amps I designed and those pay for all tubes, components, and woodworking equipment. My latest loaner amp will look a bit like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Purple heart and curly maple with maple splines.


Not to derail the thread but beautiful woodwork.


----------



## Paladin79 (Jan 9, 2021)

Barnstormer13 said:


> Not to derail the thread but beautiful woodwork.


Thanks, I also did a Lyr 3 rack pretty early, and own most Schiit tube product made so I can stay on topic some.
Mr. Cowen stole, um borrowed my idea.


----------



## Barnstormer13

Paladin79 said:


> Thanks, I also did a Lyr 3 rack pretty early, and own most Schiit tube product made so I can stay on topic some.
> Mr. Cowen stole, um borrowed my idea.



Ooh! Even color coordinated cables!


----------



## Paladin79

Barnstormer13 said:


> Ooh! Even color coordinated cables!


Well yeah. One does  what one can.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> Mr. Cowen stole, um borrowed my idea.



But imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, is it not?  At least I left your purple alone.


----------



## Jazz1

bcowen said:


> But imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, is it not?  At least I left your purple alone.


OMG that is a beauty of a system! Love the wooden stand too!


----------



## Ripper2860

Barnstormer13 said:


> .Though it is possible the increase in tube prices over the last two years *ARE* the result of *BILL*.



Fixed it for you.  😏


----------



## supersonic395

Hello all, while putting together my PC system, I want to check if my understanding of the Lyr 3's pre out is correct please: 

I've come up with the below as I want to be able to control everything with the Lyr 3:

Proposed setup: 

PC >> USB to External DAC (Bifrost 2) >> RCA to Lyr 3 >>> headphone out when needed + Lyr 3's RCA pre out into RCA input Logitech z337 powered 2.1 speakers.

Would this work properly without any weird issues? So with Lyr 3 I can control the volume of the speakers and can plug in headphones when needed too. Is my understanding of the Lyr 3's preamp output correct please?


----------



## quimbo

supersonic395 said:


> Hello all, while putting together my PC system, I want to check if my understanding of the Lyr 3's pre out is correct please:
> 
> I've come up with the below as I want to be able to control everything with the Lyr 3:
> 
> ...


That's correct. Loki between the Bifrost and Lyr 3 is a great enhancement


----------



## supersonic395

quimbo said:


> That's correct. Loki between the Bifrost and Lyr 3 is a great enhancement



Perfect, thank you


----------



## quimbo

Sure.  Be ready for tube rolling in your future.


----------



## JamminVMI

supersonic395 said:


> Hello all, while putting together my PC system, I want to check if my understanding of the Lyr 3's pre out is correct please:
> 
> I've come up with the below as I want to be able to control everything with the Lyr 3:
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan! I have pretty much same setup, works a treat (though i only use PC USB out for Utube and such, music comes in from a Pi endpoint via S/PDIF coas. But yes, Lyr’s volume will control external speakers via pre-out.


----------



## supersonic395

JamminVMI said:


> Sounds like a plan! I have pretty much same setup, works a treat (though i only use PC USB out for Utube and such, music comes in from a Pi endpoint via S/PDIF coas. But yes, Lyr’s volume will control external speakers via pre-out.



Awesome, thank you 🥰


----------



## inmytaxi

My understanding when using the Lyr 3 as a preamp is that it uses the tube portion of the headphone amplification system and not any of the solid state power amp portion of the headphone amplification system.

Is that correct? 

How does that differ from a Saga or a the other preamp (besides connectivity and the pot)?

I guess I am asking, is the Lyr 3 acting as a pure tube preamplifier in preamplifier mode? Because that doesn't make sense to me.

And while we're on the subject, anyone else think it's ****ed up that Amazon is buying up all the cardboard in California?


----------



## mrip541

I have my Lyr 3 paired with a first gen Bifrost mb. I'm looking to simplify things into one box. Anyone know how a current mb card for the Lyr compares to the first gen mb Bifrost?


----------



## inmytaxi

mrip541 said:


> I have my Lyr 3 paired with a first gen Bifrost mb. I'm looking to simplify things into one box. Anyone know how a current mb card for the Lyr compares to the first gen mb Bifrost?


I'd say take the difference, trade for card and $1/2/3/x00 as a start towards BF2.


----------



## Bboy500

I finally got my Lyr 3 after eyeing it and asking about it some 20 pages back, pairing it with my E30 for a dac :] After some initial issues, its all fixed up (Hopefully) and working wonderfully. Its about as good as I hoped and I love how much power this thing has.

My Topping L30 was struggling to power my Aryas with my EQ presets due to me needing to lower the db pre-amplfying. This thing finally allows me to breathe and has plenty, plentyyyyy of volume left, also getting my first "nice" tube in the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z in a month! Hoping I don't get into too much tube rolling and this upgrade will be enough to Quelch that thirst lol

Anyway, glad to be here :]


----------



## adydula

I was thinking of selling my Lyr 3 after getting the Jot2. I also have the Jot 1. My OC Focal Clears with the Lyr 3 have always been one of the best pairing for those headphones. I recently sold my OC Grey Clears and replaced them with a new set of Focal MG Clear PROs'....and am listening with the Lyr 3...well the Lyr 3 is not for sale anytime soon!!

That good...
Alex


----------



## chef8489

I sold my Lyr 3 multibit a few years ago and I really regret it. Ill eventually replace it.


----------



## Ripper2860

Chef!!!   How's it going, buddy??   Long time, no see!!


----------



## chef8489

Ripper2860 said:


> Chef!!!   How's it going, buddy??   Long time, no see!!


Its been a crazy few years. Hopefully soon my va disability will be straightened out and I can get back into the game. I really miss my Lyr 3 and my audeze headphones.


----------



## adydula

Good things come to those that wait!!  Hang in there Chef!!

(I am in Raleigh)..


----------



## chef8489

adydula said:


> Good things come to those that wait!!  Hang in there Chef!!
> 
> (I am in Raleigh)..


Thanks. Im in Asheville now.


----------



## Zachik

adydula said:


> well the Lyr 3 is not for sale anytime soon!!


That will change when the Lyr 3+ (or Lyr 4) is released...


----------



## Ripper2860

My money is on a LyrTyr monoblock tube HP amp.


----------



## adydula (Mar 23, 2021)

Zachik said:


> That will change when the Lyr 3+ (or Lyr 4) is released...


Dont think there will be a Lyr 4 etc anytime soon....
But maybe a Folkvangr ??

:>)


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 23, 2021)

Folkswagen is not a hybrid.   😏


----------



## adydula

Yes, understand that....lol

Just sayin I would bet on it coming out over a Lyr 4 anytime soon..

..and it does have a few tubes???

:>)


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 23, 2021)

I agree.  Lyr 3 us a tough act to follow and it's still relatively new.

Curiosity meter is pegged re: the 10 tube 'People's Amp'.


----------



## Zachik

adydula said:


> I would bet on it coming out over a Lyr 4 anytime soon.


That is the reason I also mentioned Lyr 3+ as a relatively small upgrade to current Lyr3. Just like the Loki mini --> Loki mini +
(and fingers crossed the Lyr3+ would FINALLY be offered in black. That would definitely get me to upgrade )


----------



## adydula

Ripper2860 said:


> I agree.  Lyr 3 us a tough act to follow and it's still relatively new.
> 
> Curiosity meter is pegged re: the 10 tube 'People's Amp'.


Well you can hope!!
Send Schiit an email...


----------



## adydula

Ripper2860 said:


> I agree.  Lyr 3 us a tough act to follow and it's still relatively new.
> 
> Curiosity meter is pegged re: the 10 tube 'People's Amp'.


Its going to be a heater for sure!


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Its going to be a heater for sure!


Depends on what tubes it uses.  10 novals wouldn't be bad at all.  Ten 845's?  Well, buy solar panels or put all your retirement funds into your local utility's stock.


----------



## adydula (Mar 23, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Depends on what tubes it uses.  10 novals wouldn't be bad at all.  Ten 845's?  Well, buy solar panels or put all your retirement funds into your local utility's stock.


Would think they have several thousand Russian re-issues....that will be put to good use???
IMO...but I could be totally wrong.


----------



## tamleo

Can Anyone please comment on how the Lyr 3 compared to the Jot 2 in term of sound quality? Tks


----------



## Author

I literally just asked the same question in the Jot thread, so feel free to check out answers there. 😂


----------



## adydula

Back to listening with the Lyr 3 again!...A Wonderful pairing with the HD 650's..and oldie but a goodie...really makes then sparkle!

Alex


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


> Back to listening with the Lyr 3 again!...A Wonderful pairing with the HD 650's..and oldie but a goodie...really makes then sparkle!
> 
> Alex


I like the Lyr 3 very much.
Back then when I reviewed I was going to buy it but funds where limited...

Enjoy!


----------



## adydula

Hello!

With so many good choices I have hear...sometimes a great amp like the Lyr 3 just sits there not getting much use...

I was reading some specs and came across the Lyr 3 and just had to turn in on and listen!

Boy its still a stellar tube hybrid...drives the HEDDS I have hear wonderfully as well...

I bought mine thru the B-Stock deals page at Schitt...and bought a bunch of cheap 6SN7's of of Ebay and been having fun
playing with tubes! Old and new...all pretty decent.

The new Clears, Hedds and Hd650s work very well. Its funny the Empys are not a great pairing here...

Alex


----------



## jamesofla80

Hi all, 

So i just went on a tube shopping spree and purchased a PSVane 6SN7-SE (tennis ball) tube. It looks amazing and I hope it sounds the same, but I can't get it to fit in the Lyr 3. Has anyone else had luck? It scraps across the metal openings. For some reason I thought it was a compatible tube.


----------



## jonathan c

jamesofla80 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So i just went on a tube shopping spree and purchased a PSVane 6SN7-SE (tennis ball) tube. It looks amazing and I hope it sounds the same, but I can't get it to fit in the Lyr 3. Has anyone else had luck? It scraps across the metal openings. For some reason I thought it was a compatible tube.


You might try an eight-pin (octal) socket saver. PSVane pins —> socket saver —> Lyr 3:


----------



## Odin412

jonathan c said:


> You might try an eight-pin (octal) socket saver. PSVane pins —> socket saver —> Lyr 3:



Yes, that's just what you need to fit the Psvane tube in the Lyr 3. It's a great-sounding tube.


----------



## FLTWS

Yep, costs very little. I use savers under all my 9 and 8 pin Schiit, it can handle the odd shapes like the Treasure Globe and I find my units run cooler with the tube elevated with a saver regardless of shape. There are some fancier looking ones (and I have those as well), from different suppliers, but your not going to see them anyway. Not needed with tubes in designs that are flush mounted. I keep several of each pin # on hand for future adventures in purchasing Schiit.


----------



## ThanatosVI

FLTWS said:


> Yep, costs very little. I use savers under all my 9 and 8 pin Schiit, it can handle the odd shapes like the Treasure Globe and I find my units run cooler with the tube elevated with a saver regardless of shape. There are some fancier looking ones (and I have those as well), from different suppliers, but your not going to see them anyway. Not needed with tubes in designs that are flush mounted. I keep several of each pin # on hand for future adventures in purchasing Schiit.


Thx for sharing that.
This could be ideal for my Octave V16 12au7 tube.
Those are quite recessed and hard to switch without opening the case, the socket saver could nake thst easier and at the same time increase longlivety of the original socket


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 19, 2022)

All of these shapes work fine with a lifter. Especially if the glass doesn't sit perfectly square on top of its base but is slightly tilted. All of these clear the metal work in my LYR3 with a lifter/saver.


----------



## Odin412

FLTWS said:


> All of these shapes work fine with a lifter. Especially if the glass doesn't sit perfectly square on top of its base but is slightly tilted. All of these work fine and clear the metal in my LYR3 with a lifter.


The tube on the left looks cool - any suggestions as to where I can buy one? (Yes, I admit that I sometimes buy tubes because they look cool. )


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> The tube on the left looks cool - any suggestions as to where I can buy one? (Yes, I admit that I sometimes buy tubes because they look cool. )


And that is even before they are in the amp  and are glowing!...


----------



## FLTWS (May 7, 2021)

Odin412 said:


> The tube on the left looks cool - any suggestions as to where I can buy one? (Yes, I admit that I sometimes buy tubes because they look cool. )


There is an aesthetic involvement with tubed electronics that you just don't get with SS.
These were a limited edition run of *Shuguang WE6SN7Plus ‘Black Plate Curvy’ vacuum tubes.*
I purchased these from Grant Fidelity in Canada some time back.   https://grantfidelity.com/new/
Grant Fidelity has broken ties with Psvane (who owned Shuguang I believe) and if you check the GF website they give a lot of info on the break with this tube supplier and their new line on Linlai tubes.
These WE6SN7's appear to be gone and may no longer be available but you can search Amazon , Ebay, etc., and search under Psvane and Shuguang as well. Maybe?


----------



## nasty nate

I must be lucky but my Treasure Globe fits fine in my Lyr without a saver... 







Doesn't get too hot either... Room is temperature controlled, which helps.


----------



## nasty nate

Looks cool in the dark too 😏


----------



## Mightygrey

nasty nate said:


> Looks cool in the dark too 😏


Very sci-fi looking!


----------



## jamesofla80

Got my socket saver in today and felt much calmer getting the tube in. Looks great, still too early to tell the sound sig. But I got a good feeling about this one. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## davidfrance (May 16, 2021)

WayneWoondirts said:


> Headfonia published their Lyr 3 review:
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-schiit-audio-lyr-3/


The review is very old, 2018, but it is interesting to see that they say the Lyr 3 is « fully discrete », no op-amps. Like the Asgard 3.

Having read these forums for about 2 months, I have seen several people say that their amp was sent in for repair, and Schiit said an op-amp was defective and replaced. Jotunheim 2 stories. 

For me, ordering from Europe, sending my amp to the U.S. for repair is something I would hope to avoid. I would wonder if the Lyr 3 and Asgard 3 are the more reliable, less defect prone, choices.

And maybe « fully discrete » amps sound better (?).


----------



## tafens

davidfrance said:


> The review is very old, 2018, but it is interesting to see that they say the Lyr 3 is « fully discrete », no op-amps. Like the Asgard 3.
> 
> Having read these forums for about 2 months, I have seen several people say that their amp was sent in for repair, and Schiit said an op-amp was defective and replaced. Jotunheim 2 stories.



The discrete amps may contain op-amps too, but in them they’re used as DC-servos or as part of the protection circuits (a DC-servo removes DC-offset and isn’t in the direct signal path as opposed to a coupling capacitor).

The only op-amp based Schiit amps (where the op-amps are actually used for the amplification) are (iirc) Fulla, Hel, Magni Heresy (that’s where the Heresy moniker comes from), and now also IEMagni.



davidfrance said:


> And maybe « fully discrete » amps sound better (?).


Well, op-amp based amps tend to _measure_ better, but beauty - as they say - lies in the ear of the beholder


----------



## Barnstormer13 (May 16, 2021)

davidfrance said:


> The review is very old, 2018, but it is interesting to see that they say the Lyr 3 is « fully discrete », no op-amps. Like the Asgard 3.
> 
> Having read these forums for about 2 months, I have seen several people say that their amp was sent in for repair, and Schiit said an op-amp was defective and replaced. Jotunheim 2 stories.
> 
> ...


Schiit makes and sells a lot of amps, so simply by the numbers you’re going to see more warranty service reports than a smaller maker. As a percentage of sales, I suspect the failure rate is low- everything I’ve seen suggests that they have an excellent quality control program.

That said, there is always some risk of a problem with any manufacturer. From my own personal experience, Schiit provides excellent after sales support, but if you’re concerned about shipping cost and time you’re probably better off buying something with local support.

Local support may be a problem though. If Europe is anything like the US, most stuff is made in Asia with pretty much no support other than the ability to return to the seller within a set time period.


----------



## davidfrance

Barnstormer13 said:


> Schiit makes and sells a lot of amps, so simply by the numbers you’re going to see more warranty service reports than a smaller maker. As a percentage of sales, I suspect the failure rate is low- everything I’ve seen suggests that they have an excellent quality control program.
> 
> That said, there is always some risk of a problem with any manufacturer. From my own personal experience, Schiit provides excellent after sales support, but if you’re concerned about shipping cost and time you’re probably better off buying something with local support.
> 
> Local support may be a problem though. If Europe is anything like the US, most stuff is made in Asia with pretty much no support other than the ability to return to the seller within a set time period.



For me, at this point, nothing else even attracts me. I want Schiit products, period, and anything else would be a disappointment. It may be an irrational purchase decision, but that's it. I was one of the very lucky few that got a Modi 3+ from Schiit Europe this last week.    

I did see Jason Stoddard mention in a YouTube video, once or twice, that every product is listened to at least once before it goes out the door.

After I get the Lyr 3, then I can wait. The Lyr 3 from the U.S. seems worth the small risk.  

I would get a Bifrost 2, but that I can wait for. If Schiit Europe ever has one, 2022 (?), 2023 (?), I would buy it.


----------



## Barnstormer13

davidfrance said:


> For me, at this point, nothing else even attracts me. I want Schiit products, period, and anything else would be a disappointment. It may be an irrational purchase decision, but that's it. I was one of the very lucky few that got a Modi 3+ from Schiit Europe this last week.
> 
> I did see Jason Stoddard mention in a YouTube video, once or twice, that every product is listened to at least once before it goes out the door.
> 
> ...


The Bifrost 2 was a noticeable improvement over every other DAC I’ve heard. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Absolutely.


----------



## tamleo

Barnstormer13 said:


> The Bifrost 2 was a noticeable improvement over every other DAC I’ve heard. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Absolutely.


Hi,
Does the Bifrost 2 have the "wall of sound" sounding character of the modi multibit? Tks


----------



## Mike-WI

davidfrance said:


> The review is very old, 2018, but it is interesting to see that they say the Lyr 3 is « fully discrete », no op-amps. Like the Asgard 3.
> 
> Having read these forums for about 2 months, I have seen several people say that their amp was sent in for repair, and Schiit said an op-amp was defective and replaced. Jotunheim 2 stories.
> 
> ...


There may be some theoretical basis for your thoughts, but only Schiit knows what the numerator and denominator for defective returns (numerator) and sales (denominator).
If online complaints are a perfect correlation with the numerator (not sure that is valid) then a 2X increase in numerator may reflect a 2X increase in denominator with same % defects.

What if the op amp is more reliable than discrete?
Who knows?


----------



## Barnstormer13 (May 17, 2021)

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> Does the Bifrost 2 have the "wall of sound" sounding character of the modi multibit? Tks


I haven’t heard a Modi multibit, so can’t comment directly, though I have heard “wall of sound” described as heavy compression where there isn’t much microdynamics. If that’s what you mean then no, it’s not compressed sounding at all.

The Bifrost is a very dynamic DAC which also does great rendering of small subtle changes in volume (microdynamics). It’s slightly warm with excellent bass execution, fantastic imaging and a slightly smoothed treble. Overall the sound is euphonic and rich sounding.


----------



## tamleo

Barnstormer13 said:


> I haven’t heard a Modi multibit, so can’t comment directly, though I have heard “wall of sound” described as heavy compression where there isn’t much microdynamics. If that’s what you mean then no, it’s not compressed sounding at all.
> 
> The Bifrost is a very dynamic DAC which also does great rendering of small subtle changes in volume (microdynamics). It’s slightly warm with excellent bass execution, fantastic imaging and a slightly smoothed treble. Overall the sound is euphonic and rich sounding.


Sorry for derailing the Lyr topic. Thank you for your answer and yes, that is what I meant. I like the rich and euphoric sound from my Modi multibit too. Though this "wall of sound" effect made me fell the dac highly detailed at first, it gradually turned to a dull and stuffy type of sound later. It's great to hear that the Bifrost 2 performs microdynamic that well


----------



## Jigetz (May 22, 2021)

I just wanted to add my two cents to this thread. I purchased a Jot 2 to test it out against my Lyr 3. I enjoy it a lot but for all intensive purposes I am going to be keeping my Lyr 3 on my desk (where I do most of my critical listening). The tube sound is just so smooth. Now on to sorting out which tubes to start trying. It will be my first foray into tube rolling.

The Jot 2 will be sticking with me though. I'm going to put it into my vinyl listening setup and feed it from my Freya+ for those quiet late night listening sessions.

Quick Update: I spent some time this evening and last with the Jot 2 feeding my 800s from the Freya+ and Bifrost 2. I guess it goes without saying but the the tubes do a lot to tame the Jot 2 and warm it up. As to be expected, it’s quite the paring. I was listening to Ella and Lois, OK Human, and Delta Kream via Roon.


----------



## tafens

Jigetz said:


> I just wanted to add my two cents to this thread. I purchased a Jot 2 to test it out against my Lyr 3. I enjoy it a lot but for all intensive purposes I am going to be keeping my Lyr 3 on my desk (where I do most of my critical listening). The tube sound is just so smooth. Now on to sorting out which tubes to start trying. It will be my first foray into tube rolling.



I just love the tube sound, and the Lyr3 is a great amp. Together with the Bifrost2 it is simply amazing.

On tube rolling, for starters, I would recommend the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB that can be found at $25-30ish, IMO it’s one of the better new production tubes out there in that price range and (YMMV, in my ears, and all of that of course) carries a more “tubey” and a tad more spacious sound than the stock JJ 6SN7.
One step up from that (in both price and sound) that I’ve recently tried is the Shuguang CV181-Z (white base black glass) that keeps almost all of the good things of the Tung-Sol, improving upon clarity and spaciousness but at a small cost of bass and PRaT.


----------



## adydula

LIstening with my Lyr 3 and HD650s this amp....using a Federal Electronics 6SN7 GT..

Nice!

Alex


----------



## adydula (May 22, 2021)

I was wondering who or what was Federal Electronics and found this:

https://federalelec.com/about-federal-electronics/history/

Its possible they made vacuum tubes back in the 60's?

I sent them an email asking this question...

I havent seen many tubes with this manufacturer.

Alex


----------



## adydula

Listening with my Lyr 3 and Focal Clears MG...nicer! 

LOL!

Alex


----------



## Jigetz

adydula said:


> Listening with my Lyr 3 and Focal Clears MG...nicer!
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Alex



I have the OG Clears and 800s. I much prefer the Focal's over the Senns on the Lyr.


----------



## davidfrance

Jigetz said:


> I have the OG Clears and 800s. I much prefer the Focal's over the Senns on the Lyr.


When you say « OG », what does that mean ? On Focal’s website I see mention of the « MG », but not the « OG ».


----------



## adydula

OG = Original Generation, part of the audio headphone "slang" used...
The OGs are the silver and grey earpads with the aluminum alloy driver.
The MG are the newer ones, with Magnesium drivers...
Both had/have a PRO version and a non-Pro version.
Alex


----------



## tafens

adydula said:


> OG = Original Generation, part of the audio headphone "slang" used...


And here I thougt it was “Old Geezer”.
But that makes sense too in a way, I guess


----------



## adydula

LOL!!

That would be me!

:>)


----------



## JamminVMI

Jigetz said:


> I just wanted to add my two cents to this thread. I purchased a Jot 2 to test it out against my Lyr 3. I enjoy it a lot but for all intensive purposes I am going to be keeping my Lyr 3 on my desk (where I do most of my critical listening). The tube sound is just so smooth. Now on to sorting out which tubes to start trying. It will be my first foray into tube rolling.
> 
> The Jot 2 will be sticking with me though. I'm going to put it into my vinyl listening setup and feed it from my Freya+ for those quiet late night listening sessions.
> 
> Quick Update: I spent some time this evening and last with the Jot 2 feeding my 800s from the Freya+ and Bifrost 2. I guess it goes without saying but the the tubes do a lot to tame the Jot 2 and warm it up. As to be expected, it’s quite the paring. I was listening to Ella and Lois, OK Human, and Delta Kream via Roon.


Thanks for that! Just got a new Psvane 6SN7-SE ‘Tennis Ball’ from a little place in Western Mass called VivaTubes.com. While the black glass does not lend itself to a comforting glow in a darkened room, it makes me love the Lyr 3 all that much more. Got the tube yesterday as a birthday gift, and it’s beem playing stuff for the past 12 hours into headphones on the rack. I put on the Sundara and played Joss Stone’s LP1, and then some of Händel’s Concerti Grossi from Op.6. Stone’s soulful vocal textures are all there, and the violins in the Concerti are so detailed! I’d never heard of VivaTubes before, but my wife got the Tennis ball from them because it ‘looked cool’. It does, but it sounds absolutely brilliant!


----------



## nasty nate

tafens said:


> I just love the tube sound, and the Lyr3 is a great amp. Together with the Bifrost2 it is simply amazing.
> 
> On tube rolling, for starters, I would recommend the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB that can be found at $25-30ish, IMO it’s one of the better new production tubes out there in that price range and (YMMV, in my ears, and all of that of course) carries a more “tubey” and a tad more spacious sound than the stock JJ 6SN7.
> One step up from that (in both price and sound) that I’ve recently tried is the Shuguang CV181-Z (white base black glass) that keeps almost all of the good things of the Tung-Sol, improving upon clarity and spaciousness but at a small cost of bass and PRaT.



Agree with this 100%

I have this combo with my HD800S and don't ever anticipate upgrading / changing (other than headphones of course 😈 ) 

This stack is a Summit-Fi killer!


----------



## davidfrance

So now I stop. I am now on board with an Asgard 3, a Modi 3+ DAC, and a Lyr 3. So now I stop.  The Lyr 3 just arrived. And it is working fine enough. I guess that I will have to wait 20 hours to see what it can really do with my Sennheiser HD660S headphones. But it already is showing promise after 45 minutes.  

I got the Asgard 3 with a multibit DAC module, but the Lyr 3 I am just using the Modi 3+. That will be good enough to verify that all is functioning well enough. Maybe next fall I will go farther (a better DAC), after the vacation season is over.


----------



## tafens

davidfrance said:


> So now I stop. I am now on board with an Asgard 3, a Modi 3+ DAC, and a Lyr 3. So now I stop.  The Lyr 3 just arrived. And it is working fine enough. I guess that I will have to wait 20 hours to see what it can really do with my Sennheiser HD660S headphones. But it already is showing promise after 45 minutes.


But.. I don’t see a Bifrost2 in that list..?   



davidfrance said:


> I got the Asgard 3 with a multibit DAC module, but the Lyr 3 I am just using the Modi 3+. That will be good enough to verify that all is functioning well enough. Maybe next fall I will go farther (a better DAC), after the vacation season is over.


I don’t have the Modi3+, so I don’t know how that sounds, but I do know that the Bifrost2 makes the Lyr3 shine.
When I upgraded to it from the internal multibit card the improvement was immediately noticeable.


----------



## davidfrance

tafens said:


> But.. I don’t see a Bifrost2 in that list..?


Oh, you can be sure, I want a Bifrost 2. But there are two things:

1) ordering it from the U.S. scares me a tiny bit, and "Schiit Europe" doesn't have it. Not yet, not now.

2) I think the biggest impact on my "listening experience", at this point, would be a pair of Focal Clears. And that I can get here in France. They are made here. If there is some problem, I send them down to the Loire Valley (or is it Burgundy ?), and they will fix them. 

But, of course, somewhere along the way, there will be a Bifrost 2 in my future, I really hope.


----------



## tafens

davidfrance said:


> 1) ordering it from the U.S. scares me a tiny bit, and "Schiit Europe" doesn't have it. Not yet, not now.


I have ordered direct from Schiit-US several times, and it has worked well. Yes, sending things back is a bit more of a hassle if you’d need to, but manageable. I live in Sweden, so not too far away from you (compared to the US, anyway   )



davidfrance said:


> 2) I think the biggest impact on my "listening experience", at this point, would be a pair of Focal Clears. And that I can get here in France. They are made here. If there is some problem, I send them down to the Loire Valley (or is it Burgundy ?), and they will fix them.


Probably, transducers will definitely have the most impact.

That said, the Bifrost2 had an unexpectedly large impact as well. I ordered it “blind” almost as soon as it came out and was hoping it would improve the sound at least a little bit, and that I could hear the difference (again, at least a little bit). It did (more than a little bit), and I did (it was readily apparent).

So I don’t regret buying it (not even one bit. In fact, once this lockdown is over and work resumes at the office I’m seriously considering getting another for an office setup..


----------



## davidfrance

Five weeks ago I was running my HD660S headphones off the headphone jack on my PC.  

I now have two functioning systems. The Asgard 3 with the internal MB DAC. And the Lyr 3 and Modi 3+ system. 

I adore both systems already.  

If either system had trouble, the other could run instead, and I wouldn't have to go back to the headphone jack.  

I am going to enjoy the summer, and get used to these systems. Then in the fall, maybe something new. I'll see. 

But these last five weeks have been a massive upgrade from the PC headphone jack. I can step back for awhile. 

Thanks for your advice / insights. My first guess would be that it is excellent advice / insight.


----------



## tafens

davidfrance said:


> I am going to enjoy the summer, and get used to these systems. Then in the fall, maybe something new. I'll see.


Sounds like a good plan! No need to rush things, enjoy the sonic journey and let it take its time.

I know I’ve enjoyed it greatly so far. I started out the same way, headphones straight from the PC. The first revelation actually was moving the headphones from the front jack to the one on the back  which sounded better due to less noise. Then a dac/amp, then Modi+Magni, and on.. the gist of it is in my signature below


----------



## Barnstormer13

davidfrance said:


> Oh, you can be sure, I want a Bifrost 2. But there are two things:
> 
> 1) ordering it from the U.S. scares me a tiny bit, and "Schiit Europe" doesn't have it. Not yet, not now.
> 
> ...


Good choice with the Clears. Very good match with the Lyr 3


----------



## adydula

Sometimes the stock tube that comes with the Lyr 3 is well, EXCELLENT!

...and it is!

Perfect match for my Emperyeans....


----------



## adydula

...and its a perfect match for the new Clear MG Pros as well!!

Alex


----------



## Ichos

I have reviewed Lyr 3 two years ago and I loved it.
Great amp even with the stock tube.

Enjoy!


----------



## chef8489

I'll eventually get it again. Every day I miss it and my vintage tubes.


----------



## AP357 (Jun 26, 2021)

Hi all, I’m new here!

lyr 3 is available in black now, does anyone have it? I’m interested in getting one

Edit: sorry, should of added does anyone have a pic they can share of the black model


----------



## adydula

Welcome!

Its a great amp and I think many folks here in the Lyr 3 thread have this amp!

:>)


----------



## JamminVMI

Lyr 3 is a great amp, especially for planars and other power-hungry cans. Honestly, for the photo, just take a look at the black Asgard, other than the lettering, and the 6SN7-sized hole in the top, it’s pretty much the same. Running mine right now with a Psvane 6SN7-SE (tennis ball), couldn’t be happier.

what headphones will you be using?


----------



## FooFighter

Hi guys 
Sorry for the noob question, how do you connect 4,4mm cans / IEMs to your Schiit amps?
Will a 4,4mm to  3,5mm adapter really suffice without any disadvantages?


----------



## chef8489

AP357 said:


> Hi all, I’m new here!
> 
> lyr 3 is available in black now, does anyone have it? I’m interested in getting one
> 
> Edit: sorry, should of added does anyone have a pic they can share of the black model


Here is the asgard 3 in black. I'd imagine it be close.


----------



## DuerumBen (Jun 27, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Hi guys
> Sorry for the noob question, how do you connect 4,4mm cans / IEMs to your Schiit amps?
> Will a 4,4mm to  3,5mm adapter really suffice without any disadvantages?


as long as the adapter is a good quality one it shouldnt make any difference, one just cant do it the other way around
Or you take it as an excuse to get yourself a nice new cable, like always depends on the depth of your wallet


----------



## FooFighter

DuerumBen said:


> as long as the adapter is a good quality one it shouldnt make any difference, one just can do it the other way around
> Or you take it as an excuse to get yourself a nice new cable, like always depends on the depth of your wallet


Thx mate 
Traillii stock cable selling for 2k bucks - no way I will buy another cable 😉


----------



## AP357

JamminVMI said:


> Lyr 3 is a great amp, especially for planars and other power-hungry cans. Honestly, for the photo, just take a look at the black Asgard, other than the lettering, and the 6SN7-sized hole in the top, it’s pretty much the same. Running mine right now with a Psvane 6SN7-SE (tennis ball), couldn’t be happier.
> 
> what headphones will you be using?


Thanks you, I think I’ll order in black to match my set-up and I’ll be using Audeze LCD-X and Sennheiser HD650


----------



## JamminVMI

FooFighter said:


> Thx mate
> Traillii stock cable selling for 2k bucks - no way I will buy another cable 😉


Assuming you want to stick with balanced, there are 4.4 to XLR  or 3.5 adapters out there, just took a quick look on amazon. You might try an IEMagni as well…


----------



## tafens

I’ve been comparing the Shuguang CV181-Z and Psvane CV181-TII in the Lyr3 and thought that I had my preferences sorted out. Then I swapped the moderately worn pads on the HD6XX for fresh ones, and now the preferred order might just be the other way around… oh well, back to do some more listening!


----------



## FLTWS

I could be mistaken but I believe the key people at Shuguang became key people at Psvane and are now key at Linlai. While tube shapes and finishes and packaging may vary, the lineage of the Linlai looks like 3rd generation.


----------



## tafens

FLTWS said:


> I could be mistaken but I believe the key people at Shuguang became key people at Psvane and are now key at Linlai. While tube shapes and finishes and packaging may vary, the lineage of the Linlai looks like 3rd generation.


That’s how I understand it as well. Your regular tube manufacturing soap-opera if there ever was one, but it also makes the Linlai offerings all the more interesting.


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> I’ve been comparing the Shuguang CV181-Z and Psvane CV181-TII in the Lyr3 and thought that I had my preferences sorted out. Then I swapped the moderately worn pads on the HD6XX for fresh ones, and now the preferred order might just be the other way around… oh well, back to do some more listening!


Make a note for when these pads wear a bit… 😂


----------



## tafens

JamminVMI said:


> Make a note for when these pads wear a bit… 😂


”Moderately” in this case means a year of usage, every day, but yeah, probably the change in sound signature as the pads wear will overshadow the change between some tubes.

I’ve made a habit of changing the pads annually, before they degrade too far, and that time was due now, anyway.


----------



## bluemansegundo

Ichos said:


> I have reviewed Lyr 3 two years ago and I loved it.
> Great amp even with the stock tube.
> 
> Enjoy!


✨✨I would love to read your review, please send link🤛🏼


----------



## Ichos

bluemansegundo said:


> ✨✨I would love to read your review, please send link🤛🏼


Thank you.
Unfortunately the review is available only in hxosplus printed edition and at Greek.
I would be glad to send you a PDF scan of it but I don't know if you can translate it from there.
If you are interested shoot me a PM.


----------



## nasty nate

Anyone here add the Lokius into their Lyr3 stack yet? If so - where did you place it and did you notice any hum? 🤔 Thank you in advance!


----------



## Ripper2860

See my reply in the BF2 thread...


----------



## j0val

adydula said:


> Sometimes the stock tube that comes with the Lyr 3 is well, EXCELLENT!
> 
> ...and it is!
> 
> Perfect match for my Emperyeans....



i have a Jot 2 on order with no delivery date in sight. I saw that they now offer a black Lyr 3 and considering that too. Did you ever get to compare the Jot 2 to the Lyr 3 with the Empyreans?


----------



## adydula

j0val said:


> i have a Jot 2 on order with no delivery date in sight. I saw that they now offer a black Lyr 3 and considering that too. Did you ever get to compare the Jot 2 to the Lyr 3 with the Empyreans?


Yes I have both of the amps and a Jot 1 for years...either the Jot 2 or Lyr 3 will do just fine...very little difference.

Both have way more than enough power to light up the Empys...

The Jot 2 with balanced and se might be the better choice in the long run depending on your cables and "bias"...

Again either one is great with the Empys...

Good Luck!
Alex


----------



## j0val

adydula said:


> Yes I have both of the amps and a Jot 1 for years...either the Jot 2 or Lyr 3 will do just fine...very little difference.
> 
> Both have way more than enough power to light up the Empys...
> 
> ...



Nice. Thanks for the info. 

I’m a little torn. A tube hybrid amp would be cool, but only SE.  Also, tube rolling would be fun, but get kind of expensive. Maybe I should just stick with Jot 2. The rest of my chain supports balanced (BF2 and Lokius).


----------



## adydula

j0val said:


> Nice. Thanks for the info.
> 
> I’m a little torn. A tube hybrid amp would be cool, but only SE.  Also, tube rolling would be fun, but get kind of expensive. Maybe I should just stick with Jot 2. The rest of my chain supports balanced (BF2 and Lokius).


Sounds like a plan...


----------



## JamminVMI

AP357 said:


> Thanks you, I think I’ll order in black to match my set-up and I’ll be using Audeze LCD-X and Sennheiser HD650


I have both asgard 3 and lyr 3 (oddly, also with a Psvane tennis ball at the moment), both amps will drive those xans with no problem. Whichever you get, enjoy!


----------



## jarrod2750

adydula said:


> Sometimes the stock tube that comes with the Lyr 3 is well, EXCELLENT!
> 
> ...and it is!
> 
> Perfect match for my Emperyeans....


Just curious what type of tube riser are you using?


----------



## JamminVMI

jarrod2750 said:


> Just curious what type of tube riser are you using?


I just added them to Lyr3 and Saga, got them from Amplified Parts in the PHX area.


----------



## Bob Ley

Curious if anyone is using the Lyr 3 with the HE1000 V2?


----------



## j0val

Bob Ley said:


> Curious if anyone is using the Lyr 3 with the HE1000 V2?



Seems like this thread isn’t as active when compared to the general Schiit thread.

I know it’s not the headphones you’re asking about, but I tested out my Empyreans yesterday with the Lyr 3. Very smooth sound overall, impactful bass, and good imaging. Seems like a good amp for planars. I preferred it over the Jot 2.


----------



## ardbeg1975

A bit closer to your specific head phone pairing question — the Lyr 3 pairs very well with Aryas. Has the power to drive low sensitivity planars and the tube coloration tends to also smooth out any potential issues in the highs. Imaging and impact also very good.


----------



## Bob Ley

ardbeg1975 said:


> A bit closer to your specific head phone pairing question — the Lyr 3 pairs very well with Aryas. Has the power to drive low sensitivity planars and the tube coloration tends to also smooth out any potential issues in the highs. Imaging and impact also very good.


Thanks for that. Should I get a different tube before it arrives or is the stock tube ok?


----------



## ardbeg1975

Bob Ley said:


> Thanks for that. Should I get a different tube before it arrives or is the stock tube ok?


The stock tube is ok but I’ve had better listening experience with Shuguang CV-181-Z and Sophia Blue Glass (they also look really cool). More economical options —  I’ve also had really good experience with old Soviet Foton and Melz NOS tubes in an OFT amp so I’m trying them out in the Lyr 3 shortly. Will advise next week on how they do.


----------



## Bob Ley

ardbeg1975 said:


> The stock tube is ok but I’ve had better listening experience with Shuguang CV-181-Z and Sophia Blue Glass (they also look really cool). More economical options —  I’ve also had really good experience with old Soviet Foton and Melz NOS tubes in an OFT amp so I’m trying them out in the Lyr 3 shortly. Will advise next week on how they do.


Where did you buy the Shuguang CV-181-Z and Sophia Blue Glass ?
and how long do they need to burn in?


----------



## ardbeg1975

The Shug via Amazon. The Sophia Electric directly from their website. Unfortunately, Sophia looks to be out of stock for 6SN7. They are very pricey so I’d suggest the Soviet stuff first. I got them from valvesNmore. The Shug and Sophia needed at least two weeks (~80 hours) as I recall. They were ok out of the box but definitely mellowed nicely after the 2-3 week mark.


----------



## Bob Ley

ardbeg1975 said:


> The Shug via Amazon. The Sophia Electric directly from their website. Unfortunately, Sophia looks to be out of stock for 6SN7. They are very pricey so I’d suggest the Soviet stuff first. I got them from valvesNmore. The Shug and Sophia needed at least two weeks (~80 hours) as I recall. They were ok out of the box but definitely mellowed nicely after the 2-3 week mark.


know anything about the 6SN7GTB - Tung Sol? They seem easy to get.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Yes, the Tung Sols are good and now that you mention it probably a better place to start before going down the tube rabbit hole I’m going down.


----------



## JamminVMI

ardbeg1975 said:


> Yes, the Tung Sols are good and now that you mention it probably a better place to start before going down the tube rabbit hole I’m going down.


Agree. Oddly, that’s what Schiit used to supply with Lyr3. I got that with mine (and a LISST). I do like the Psvane 6SN7-UK and the -SE ‘Tennis ball’ (the latter looks cool). I have but have yet to try their CV181-T MKII, which I cannot help but think is hiding something…


----------



## Bob Ley

JamminVMI said:


> Agree. Oddly, that’s what Schiit used to supply with Lyr3. I got that with mine (and a LISST). I do like the Psvane 6SN7-UK and the -SE ‘Tennis ball’ (the latter looks cool). I have but have yet to try their CV181-T MKII, which I cannot help but think is hiding something…


Do you know what they are shipping with now?


----------



## ardbeg1975

When I got the Lyr 3 within the last 9 months, it was not shipping with the Tung Sol. My setup is at the office so I cannot check what the stock tube was/is at the moment.


----------



## JamminVMI (Aug 12, 2021)

Bob Ley said:


> Do you know what they are shipping with now?


it was JJ. Don’t know what’s up with the current shortage (no pun intended).

Edit: someone over on the main Schiit thread poted a lovely photo of their brand new Lyr 3. Tube is indeed the JJ…


----------



## Bob Ley

Just got my Lyr 3 today. I let it warm up for an hour before I tried it but sounds a little stiff (swapped out the stock tube with the Tung- Sol 6SNTGTB)

How long would you all say it needs in hours to warm up?


----------



## JohnBal

Bob Ley said:


> Just got my Lyr 3 today. I let it warm up for an hour before I tried it but sounds a little stiff (swapped out the stock tube with the Tung- Sol 6SNTGTB)
> 
> How long would you all say it needs in hours to warm up?


If it's brand new, I would give it at least 50 hours to run in. At least. The tube, caps etc need time to settle in. Enjoy the process in the mean time. It is a great amp. Better tubes reveal themselves well with the Lyr 3.


----------



## chrisnyc75

JamminVMI said:


> it was JJ. Don’t know what’s up with the current shortage (no pun intended).
> 
> Edit: someone over on the main Schiit thread poted a lovely photo of their brand new Lyr 3. Tube is indeed the JJ…


Can confirm - just received a brand new Lyr 3 and the stock tube is JJ.  I found it very bloomy with recessed treble.  Replaced the JJ with a 1940s Sylvania 6SN7GT and now it has just the right amount of low end warmth without losing high end resolution - perfect for driving Arya.


----------



## j0val

Bob Ley said:


> Just got my Lyr 3 today. I let it warm up for an hour before I tried it but sounds a little stiff (swapped out the stock tube with the Tung- Sol 6SNTGTB)
> 
> How long would you all say it needs in hours to warm up?



Nice. Just got my black Lyr too!


----------



## Barnstormer13

ardbeg1975 said:


> The Shug via Amazon. The Sophia Electric directly from their website. Unfortunately, Sophia looks to be out of stock for 6SN7. They are very pricey so I’d suggest the Soviet stuff first. I got them from valvesNmore. The Shug and Sophia needed at least two weeks (~80 hours) as I recall. They were ok out of the box but definitely mellowed nicely after the 2-3 week mark.


IMHO the Shug takes a good long time to sound its best. I think mine was well past the 100 hr point. Worth the wait though. Very clean, uniformly good tube with a s-ton of detail.


----------



## duranxv

How's the Lyr 3 match up vs the Saga+ or Freya+ as a pre-amp?


----------



## JamminVMI

duranxv said:


> How's the Lyr 3 match up vs the Saga+ or Freya+ as a pre-amp?


Against Freya, no comparison. Against Saga, Saga wins, but by a narrow margin. Saga has the inputs and a volume contol, but I did put in an RCA input card in Lyr for those times when I use my DAP as input. Lyr is great with desktop powered monitors, but if I were running Vidar or Aegir, Saga would be my choice.


----------



## duranxv

JamminVMI said:


> Against Freya, no comparison. Against Saga, Saga wins, but by a narrow margin. Saga has the inputs and a volume contol, but I did put in an RCA input card in Lyr for those times when I use my DAP as input. Lyr is great with desktop powered monitors, but if I were running Vidar or Aegir, Saga would be my choice.



I figured as much   My plan is to pair a tube pre-amp with a high end solid state amp to try and get a sort of hybrid sound


----------



## JamminVMI

duranxv said:


> I figured as much   My plan is to pair a tube pre-amp with a high end solid state amp to try and get a sort of hybrid sound


If you want tubeyness, freya…


----------



## DTgill (Aug 28, 2021)

A new tube showed up today it's burning in right now, sounds pretty good.


----------



## JamminVMI

DTgill said:


> A new tube showed up today it's burning in right now, sounds pretty good.
> 
> agree, there’s one in mine right now as well. Put it on a socket saver, it’s kinda short and you don’t want envelope to aluminium contact.


----------



## DTgill

Ya I have mine on a tube saver as well


----------



## JamminVMI

DTgill said:


> Ya I have mine on a tube saver as well


Good! And the other Psvane 6SN7 is good, too. Don’t have the UK one that’s bashful (hiding behind that grey flashing) and more costly. Enjoy!


----------



## JReve79

DTgill said:


> Ya I have mine on a tube saver as well


I have that psvane tube as well for my Lyr3. Really enjoy it, but it's a tight fit and not simple to remove since it's deep in there. I'm curious, where'd you find the socket saver? I've looked around, but not confident in the quality of some I've seen... I think it'd be worth it to have one if there's a good version out there? Recommendation by chance?Thanks!


----------



## DTgill

JReve79 said:


> I have that psvane tube as well for my Lyr3. Really enjoy it, but it's a tight fit and not simple to remove since it's deep in there. I'm curious, where'd you find the socket saver? I've looked around, but not confident in the quality of some I've seen... I think it'd be worth it to have one if there's a good version out there? Recommendation by chance?Thanks!


I bought 3 from a seller on eBay.

Here

They are quite tight, but they do work without issue, other than being tight.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 29, 2021)

These socket savers are not the cheapest, but are very high quality and highly regarded by many here (myself included).  Pulse Tube store is Tubemonger, BTW.

https://pulsetubestore.com/products/plug-play-novib-octal-nos-ge-usa-omron-japan-socket-saver©-with-vibration-reduction-base-not-made-in-china-everybody-needs-one


----------



## JReve79

Ripper2860 said:


> These socket savers are not the cheapest, but are very high quality and highly regarded by many here (myself included).  Pulse Tube store is Tubemonger, BTW.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/plug-play-novib-octal-nos-ge-usa-omron-japan-socket-saver©-with-vibration-reduction-base-not-made-in-china-everybody-needs-one


You're correct in saying it's quite the cost increase for the general market, but went in for one regardless...thanks for recommendation. Hoping the quality and high-regard keeps me satiated with the purchase. At least I'm going with that... looking forward to giving it a try.


----------



## chrisnyc75

JReve79 said:


> I have that psvane tube as well for my Lyr3. Really enjoy it, but it's a tight fit and not simple to remove since it's deep in there. I'm curious, where'd you find the socket saver? I've looked around, but not confident in the quality of some I've seen... I think it'd be worth it to have one if there's a good version out there? Recommendation by chance?Thanks!



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IYPLH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Odin412

chrisnyc75 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IYPLH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


This looks like the one that I use - it works well.


----------



## JamminVMI

JReve79 said:


> I have that psvane tube as well for my Lyr3. Really enjoy it, but it's a tight fit and not simple to remove since it's deep in there. I'm curious, where'd you find the socket saver? I've looked around, but not confident in the quality of some I've seen... I think it'd be worth it to have one if there's a good version out there? Recommendation by chance?Thanks!


Got mine from a guitar amp shop in the PHX area. AmplifiedParts.com. I’ve had no issues with them or their socket savers.


----------



## PoloJCP

Bob Ley said:


> Just got my Lyr 3 today. I let it warm up for an hour before I tried it but sounds a little stiff (swapped out the stock tube with the Tung- Sol 6SNTGTB)
> 
> How long would you all say it needs in hours to warm up?


Nice setup Bob Ley   I have the same RME Adi2 FS -> Lyr3 -> HD800s / HD660s / Elex

I usually just wait ~5min... cannot tell much difference, and I leave them on from 7am to 5pm.

Out of curiosity, what kind of setting are you using on the RME Adi2 FS?


----------



## bluemansegundo (Aug 30, 2021)

I thought about getting a tube saver for my Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z but decided to get creative with a dremel bit in my drill press. The mod is not for the faint hearted… it took some time to widen the opening. Glad that I tackled it. I’m really enjoying my Lyr 3 and I think it’s a keeper.


----------



## j0val

bluemansegundo said:


> I thought about getting a tube saver for my Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z but decided to get creative with a dremel bit in my drill press. The mod is not for the faint hearted… it took some time to widen the opening. Glad that I tackled it. I’m really enjoying my Lyr 3 and I think it’s a keeper.



I have a Shug treasure on the way. Will it not fit normally?


----------



## bluemansegundo

j0val said:


> I have a Shug treasure on the way. Will it not fit normally?


No, the ceramic base has a taper that is too big for the opening. There may be inconsistancies and yours may fit? Otherwise you will either need a tube saver or take off the cover and file back the opening.


----------



## DTgill

Yep, you need a tube save for the Lyr 3, even if you use regular sized 6SN7 tubes makes it quite a bit easier to change tubes.


----------



## j0val

bluemansegundo said:


> No, the ceramic base has a taper that is too big for the opening. There may be inconsistancies and yours may fit? Otherwise you will either need a tube saver or take off the cover and file back the opening.



Received my Shug today. Definitely had to use the socket saver for it to fit. 

Sounds great so far, even with just a couple hours on it.


----------



## Odin412

j0val said:


> Received my Shug today. Definitely had to use the socket saver for it to fit.
> 
> Sounds great so far, even with just a couple hours on it.


Nice! I like your Bifrost - Lokius - Lyr setup.


----------



## j0val

Thanks. I think it'll keep me satisfied for a good while.


----------



## cgb3

j0val said:


> Thanks. I think it'll keep me satisfied for a good while.


Impossible.

There's always "strange" over the periphery.

Humans aren't hardwired to be "satisfied".


----------



## DTgill

j0val said:


> Thanks. I think it'll keep me satisfied for a good while.


Yep, I remember when I thought it would satisfy me to have this awesome thing or that awesome thing, then I discovered, there were more awesome things more awesome than the last thing. It's tiring chasing the awesome thing and never being satisfied with the awesome thing I just acquired... 

I love, hate these forums, it's very expensive to be here!


----------



## ardbeg1975

DTgill said:


> Yep, I remember when I thought it would satisfy me to have this awesome thing or that awesome thing, then I discovered, there were more awesome things more awesome than the last thing. It's tiring chasing the awesome thing and never being satisfied with the awesome thing I just acquired...
> 
> I love, hate these forums, it's very expensive to be here!


I concur. I was very satisfied by the Shug and then I heard a 50s era MELZ on the Lyr and down the rolling rabbit hole I went again.


----------



## j0val

DTgill said:


> Yep, I remember when I thought it would satisfy me to have this awesome thing or that awesome thing, then I discovered, there were more awesome things more awesome than the last thing. It's tiring chasing the awesome thing and never being satisfied with the awesome thing I just acquired...
> 
> I love, hate these forums, it's very expensive to be here!



I feel broke just scrolling through this thread. I've already gone through a couple headphones, DACs, and amps in the past year and a half, so I guess I should know better about having to chase that sound. Tube rolling is a whole new rabbit hole for me.


----------



## PoSR77

Anyone compare this to the Asgard 2 or even the old Vali 2?


----------



## JamminVMI

PoSR77 said:


> Anyone compare this to the Asgard 2 or even the old Vali 2?


I have all three, and Lyr trounces everything in terms of detail and soundstage. There isn’t a lot of difference in tubes, to be frank, but my ears still have a favourite (Psvane). Asgard 2 has more character than Asgard 3, but doggone the 2 puts out some serious heat. I travel with Vali 2 in my carryon, and it’s so good I won’t be parting with it anywhen. More variance in tube rolling, as well. But Lyr has them all, as it should. It drives planars and Beyers effortlessly, and sounds amazing.


----------



## PoSR77

Thank you for the info.

I'm currently looking for a full sized amp to pair with my EE Odins for bedroom listening. I have been switching between Gilmore Lite Mk2, Cayin iHA-6 & Asgard 2 and each have their strengths/weaknesses. The Odins, being very revealing, are amp picky and though I get good to great sound with them out of all of these amps, I'm still missing the last bit of magic. So I'm looking at various full sized amps to find that; specifically this, the Burson Funk and 3 Flux models. 

I remember being fond of the Vali 2 (mine quit working years ago; I did replace the tube which didn't fix it) so I'm interested in another hybrid from Schiit. I'm looking for a "neutral-warm" sound signature with all the benefits of SS & tube and a good level of excitement or engagement and power. Yes, power: I know the EE Odins are just IEMs of course, but I can really tell how much power the Cayin iHA-6 (my most powerful amp) has when using them with it; it sounds authoritative, with great PRaT and an expansive/deep stage compared to the Gilmore & Asgard. (The problem is that I find the Cayin's overall timbre is dry and its highs can be glarey, glassy, etchy and even metallicy. It's not awful, but it is distracting).


----------



## JamminVMI

PoSR77 said:


> Thank you for the info.
> 
> I'm currently looking for a full sized amp to pair with my EE Odins for bedroom listening. I have been switching between Gilmore Lite Mk2, Cayin iHA-6 & Asgard 2 and each have their strengths/weaknesses. The Odins, being very revealing, are amp picky and though I get good to great sound with them out of all of these amps, I'm still missing the last bit of magic. So I'm looking at various full sized amps to find that; specifically this, the Burson Funk and 3 Flux models.
> 
> I remember being fond of the Vali 2 (mine quit working years ago; I did replace the tube which didn't fix it) so I'm interested in another hybrid from Schiit. I'm looking for a "neutral-warm" sound signature with all the benefits of SS & tube and a good level of excitement or engagement and power. Yes, power: I know the EE Odins are just IEMs of course, but I can really tell how much power the Cayin iHA-6 (my most powerful amp) has when using them with it; it sounds authoritative, with great PRaT and an expansive/deep stage compared to the Gilmore & Asgard. (The problem is that I find the Cayin's overall timbre is dry and its highs can be glarey, glassy, etchy and even metallicy. It's not awful, but it is distracting).


Lyr 3.


----------



## PoSR77

JamminVMI said:


> Lyr 3.



I'm going to sit on the decision for awhile (I really should sell some gear first), but I do like reading (somewhere) that the vocals are forward in the mix on the Lyr 3. I also like the looks of a tube. And the price is a bit better than any of the Flux (the main other contenders) amps I'm looking at.


----------



## jonathan c

PoSR77 said:


> I'm going to sit on the decision for awhile (I really should sell some gear first), but I do like reading (somewhere) that the vocals are forward in the mix on the Lyr 3. I also like the looks of a tube. And the price is a bit better than any of the Flux (the main other contenders) amps I'm looking at.


Also, the choices of tube will give you different ‘flavours’ or perspectives: bass full/lean, midrange forward/back, soundstage narrow/wide…


----------



## davidfrance

DTgill said:


> Yep, I remember when I thought it would satisfy me to have this awesome thing or that awesome thing, then I discovered, there were more awesome things more awesome than the last thing. It's tiring chasing the awesome thing and never being satisfied with the awesome thing I just acquired...
> 
> I love, hate these forums, it's very expensive to be here!


I read some encouraging news yesterday. It seems like at least a few Bifrost 2 owners are having trouble with their units after 4 or 5 months. 

That's a slimmer of hope that might make me hesitate to get a Bifrost 2.  Or maybe I will try my luck just the same.


----------



## Odin412

Lately I've been using my Lyr 3 with the new Psvane 6SN7 'Tennis ball' tube. This tube sounds good to my ears. I've been using this with my Focal Elegia and I'm really enjoying the combo.


----------



## DTgill

Odin412 said:


> Lately I've been using my Lyr 3 with the new Psvane 6SN7 'Tennis ball' tube. This tube sounds good to my ears. I've been using this with my Focal Elegia and I'm really enjoying the combo.


I'm using the same amp combo, I'm thinking about putting my bad boy back in


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> Lately I've been using my Lyr 3 with the new Psvane 6SN7 'Tennis ball' tube. This tube sounds good to my ears. I've been using this with my Focal Elegia and I'm really enjoying the combo.


Will you still serve up the tennis ball tube after the US Open finishes?…


----------



## Odin412

jonathan c said:


> Will you still serve up the tennis ball tube after the US Open finishes?…


Good one! The tennis ball looks cool so it stays for now. I have my eye on a Linlai 6SN7 as well, but they seem to be on backorder at the moment.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 11, 2021)

davidfrance said:


> I read some encouraging news yesterday. It seems like at least a few Bifrost 2 owners are having trouble with their units after 4 or 5 months.
> 
> That's a slimmer of hope that might make me hesitate to get a Bifrost 2.  Or maybe I will try my luck just the same.


I have 2 of them.  Got them shortly after they were announced.  Never had an issue with either of them.  Do it!!


----------



## Mike-WI

davidfrance said:


> I read some encouraging news yesterday. It seems like at least a few Bifrost 2 owners are having trouble with their units after 4 or 5 months.
> 
> That's a slimmer of hope that might make me hesitate to get a Bifrost 2.  Or maybe I will try my luck just the same.


Need to look at the numerator and denominator


----------



## nasty nate

No issues with my BF2 either - and it's on most of the time...


----------



## Orange5o

Now past the 3.5 year mark, do you all expect a Lyr 4 soon? I am very interested but need balanced, and would rather have this than Jot 2....


----------



## ThanatosVI

Orange5o said:


> Now past the 3.5 year mark, do you all expect a Lyr 4 soon? I am very interested but need balanced, and would rather have this than Jot 2....


There is no space in the Lyr/Jotunheim chassis for a balanced Version. 

If they decide to do it, it would be Freya sized.


----------



## Orange5o

ThanatosVI said:


> There is no space in the Lyr/Jotunheim chassis for a balanced Version.
> 
> If they decide to do it, it would be Freya sized.


Thank you for the info, sounds like a Jot 2 for me!


----------



## cgb3

Orange5o said:


> Now past the 3.5 year mark, do you all expect a Lyr 4 soon? I am very interested but need balanced, and would rather have this than Jot 2....


Lyr 3 out into Jot 2 pre single ended is very nice. My one tube pre-amp.

Why the requirement for balanced? Lyr 3 puts out .9 W at 300 ohms, 9 W at 16 ohms. That's pretty powerful.

They can't keep Lyr 3's in stock (and I can't imagine selling mine). What's the incentive for a Lyr4?


----------



## chrisnyc75

cgb3 said:


> Lyr 3 out into Jot 2 pre single ended is very nice. My one tube pre-amp.
> 
> Why the requirement for balanced? Lyr 3 puts out .9 W at 300 ohms, 9 W at 16 ohms. That's pretty powerful.
> 
> They can't keep Lyr 3's in stock (and I can't imagine selling mine). What's the incentive for a Lyr4?


Agreed.  The only thing I would change is the single input.  It's inconvenient to have to plug and unplug input devices when you have more than one and switch between them.


----------



## JamminVMI (Oct 8, 2021)

chrisnyc75 said:


> Agreed.  The only thing I would change is the single input.  It's inconvenient to have to plug and unplug input devices when you have more than one and switch between them.


Which might be why I added the stereo input card to mine… Edit: when I re-read this, I thought I sounded rude. Apologies.

The card is available by e-mailing Schiit, and I find it super handy. Pretty sure it’s the input card for Ragnarok. Right now, it’s got a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable on it if I want to hook my DAP to it. Should you choose to install it yourself, it’s not hard, but the fit is tight. I found it worked best by loosening the motherboard screws, so it could move a little. Getting the lights to line up when closing the chassis is the epitome of FUN, but it can be done…


----------



## chrisnyc75

JamminVMI said:


> Which might be why I added the stereo input card to mine…


Stereo input card?  You mean the phono preamp?


----------



## tafens

cgb3 said:


> They can't keep Lyr 3's in stock (and I can't imagine selling mine). What's the incentive for a Lyr4?


Usually they improve a product because they can - as in can improve on it but still keep it at the same or similar price point, or, because it’s fun, or, because it would poke a stick in the side of the high-end audio market as a whole in a place where they think prices are still too high for what you get. At least that is what I gather from reading Jason’s posts in the Schiit Happened thread, and by what they’ve done so far 

I guess they haven’t found a way to improve on the Lyr3 yet by those standards, or maybe there’s a surprise announcement around the corner 

One thing's for sure though, if or when it does, I’m gonna be on it before you can say “Schiit Happened”


----------



## tafens

chrisnyc75 said:


> Stereo input card?  You mean the phono preamp?


There is a plain RCA stereo input card too. It was briefly available for order on the site, but was removed due to it being a very very tight fit inside the Lyr3/Asgard/Jot and as such too tricky for people to install for them to have it on order. It is still available on request though, just like the Modi Multibit updated firmware chip (if you want to upgrade a first gen Modi MB).


----------



## DougD

cgb3 said:


> Lyr 3 out into Jot 2 pre single ended is very nice. My one tube pre-amp.


Are you saying the tube circuitry is BEFORE the pre-amp out? If so, I never realized that. VERY interesting. 

(I could inject some tube flavor into my Stax amp. Hmmm hmmm, very interesting.)


----------



## chrisnyc75

tafens said:


> There is a plain RCA stereo input card too. It was briefly available for order on the site, but was removed due to it being a very very tight fit inside the Lyr3/Asgard/Jot and as such too tricky for people to install for them to have it on order. It is still available on request though, just like the Modi Multibit updated firmware chip (if you want to upgrade a first gen Modi MB).


Interesting, I did not know that was a thing.  Maybe I'll call up schiit and see if I can get one.   Thanks


----------



## cgb3

DougD said:


> Are you saying the tube circuitry is BEFORE the pre-amp out? If so, I never realized that. VERY interesting.
> 
> (I could inject some tube flavor into my Stax amp. Hmmm hmmm, very interesting.)


The tube circuitry is part of the pre- amp out. I'm very aware of tube changes in the Lyr3 to Jot 2.

Try it yourself.


----------



## cgb3

chrisnyc75 said:


> Agreed.  The only thing I would change is the single input.  It's inconvenient to have to plug and unplug input devices when you have more than one and switch between them.


I run my Jot 2 as my main amp. There's a 3 way toggle switch on the front (left) of the unit that selects input. It allows for 2 inputs.

There are many switched input devices that can accommodate numerous inputs.

I suggest you invest in a multiple input device upline of your preamp.


----------



## DougD

cgb3 said:


> The tube circuitry is part of the pre- amp out. I'm very aware of tube changes in the Lyr3 to Jot 2.
> 
> Try it yourself.



Well this is a very interesting discovery. I had a Freya in my "hardware plan", but this creates some different possible routes on the path to audio-nirvana on a budget. 

THANKS!


----------



## JamminVMI

chrisnyc75 said:


> Stereo input card?  You mean the phono preamp?


No. A stereo input card. Provides an extra input.


----------



## jonathan c

Any comments as to the sound attributes of Lyr III compared to those of Valhalla II? I realise that tube rolling makes a difference. The use of one tube in Lyr vs four tubes in Valhalla is getting my curiosity going…(I own a Valhalla II).


----------



## DTgill

jonathan c said:


> Any comments as to the sound attributes of Lyr III compared to those of Valhalla II? I realise that tube rolling makes a difference. The use of one tube in Lyr vs four tubes in Valhalla is getting my curiosity going…(I own a Valhalla II).


I can't speak about the Valhalla2, but the Lyr3 has great volume that can drive headphones with lot's of detail and finesse, it's kind of like my ex-wife, beauty and a beast!

One thing that's nice, just one tube, 6sn7 and its variants, cheap to expensive rolling fun!

It's one piece I don't think I would sell.


----------



## jonathan c

DTgill said:


> I can't speak about the Valhalla2, but the Lyr3 has great volume that can drive headphones with lot's of detail and finesse, it's kind of like my ex-wife, beauty and a beast!
> 
> One thing that's nice, just one tube, 6sn7 and its variants, cheap to expensive rolling fun!
> 
> It's one piece I don't think I would sell.


Thank you for the comments. I will probably add Lyr to my h/p/a stable…as if I needed another h/p/a…and I have a bevy (?what is the collective noun for tubes?…🤪🤷🏻) of 6SN7s that I want to get off the unemployment roll…


----------



## Ripper2860

I roll between VH2 and Lyr 3 frequently and they both do have their own character.  The Lyr 3 is my current choice only because I am using lower impedance Planar HPs.  They are both very good, but it did take more effort to get VH2 to its current level of awesomeness whereas it just came naturally to the Lyr 3.  I think they are both worth owning and it is worth owning both.


----------



## JamminVMI

DTgill said:


> I can't speak about the Valhalla2, but the Lyr3 has great volume that can drive headphones with lot's of detail and finesse, it's kind of like my ex-wife, beauty and a beast!
> 
> One thing that's nice, just one tube, 6sn7 and its variants, cheap to expensive rolling fun!
> 
> It's one piece I don't think I would sell.


Lyr is less amenable to tube rolling since it’s a hybrid, but differences are there, they just aren’t as pronounced. With that said, more detail, and i think a bigger soundstage. And unlike Valhalla, it will drive anything, not just focussing on high impedance cans. I think it’s just better all around, unless you have high impedance cans only. Lyr 3 is (agreeing with @DTgill here, one of the things I won’t part with. It‘s great with my Sennheiser 6xx, and the DCAs & Hifiman cans I have as well.

ymmv, as always!


----------



## FLTWS

JamminVMI said:


> Lyr is less amenable to tube rolling since it’s a hybrid, but differences are there, they just aren’t as pronounced. With that said, more detail, and i think a bigger soundstage. And unlike Valhalla, it will drive anything, not just focussing on high impedance cans. I think it’s just better all around, unless you have high impedance cans only. Lyr 3 is (agreeing with @DTgill here, one of the things I won’t part with. It‘s great with my Sennheiser 6xx, and the DCAs & Hifiman cans I have as well.
> 
> ymmv, as always!


"Lyr is less amenable to tube rolling since it’s a hybrid..." Yup!
I like the V2 with 300ohm Senn's, especially 800 or 800S, but a better sound can be had with those Senn phones with my Incvbvs.
Under 100 ohms the Incvbvs delivers but if its a choice between only the V2 and LYR3, I'd take the LYR3 for those lower impedance phones.


----------



## jonathan c

JamminVMI said:


> Lyr is less amenable to tube rolling since it’s a hybrid, but differences are there, they just aren’t as pronounced. With that said, more detail, and i think a bigger soundstage. And unlike Valhalla, it will drive anything, not just focussing on high impedance cans. I think it’s just better all around, unless you have high impedance cans only. Lyr 3 is (agreeing with @DTgill here, one of the things I won’t part with. It‘s great with my Sennheiser 6xx, and the DCAs & Hifiman cans I have as well.
> 
> ymmv, as always!


I actually have driven low impedance hps (e.g. Audeze LCD-X) successfully/enjoyably…look forward to LYR in the hpa stable chez moi…


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> I actually have driven low impedance hps (e.g. Audeze LCD-X) successfully/enjoyably…look forward to LYR in the hpa stable chez moi…


On VH2, I have as well, but it is touch and go -- mainly go-went-gone with 13 ohm Aeon Flow Closed.


----------



## DTgill

jonathan c said:


> I actually have driven low impedance hps (e.g. Audeze LCD-X) successfully/enjoyably…look forward to LYR in the hpa stable chez moi…


The Lyr 3 is a nice piece of kit.


----------



## chrisnyc75 (Oct 13, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Any comments as to the sound attributes of Lyr III compared to those of Valhalla II? I realise that tube rolling makes a difference. The use of one tube in Lyr vs four tubes in Valhalla is getting my curiosity going…(I own a Valhalla II).


Lyr 3 is tighter and more dynamic (for better or for worse) with sharper edges and just a bit better depth/imaging than solid state.
Valhalla 2 is smoother and more relaxed (again, for better or for worse) with polished/softened edges and greater depth/imaging.

The difference is less about the number of tubes and more about the base topology and type of tube(s).  Lyr 3, being a hybrid tube/ss amp, attempts to give you the best of both worlds (tube and solid state).  Valhalla, being a OTL tube amp, goes all in on tube topolgy.  A lot of your preference will depend on what headphones you use and what kinds of music you listen to.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> On VH2, I have as well, but it is touch and go -- mainly go-went-gone with 13 ohm Aeon Flow Closed.


The Lyr 3 puts out over 9 watts/channel into the Aeons.  Pretty much sufficient, even for Marilyn Manson.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The Lyr 3 puts out over 9 watts/channel into the Aeons.  Pretty much sufficient, even too much for Marilyn Manson.


FTFY [Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Zachik

bcowen said:


> The Lyr 3 puts out over 9 watts/channel into the Aeons.  Pretty much sufficient, even for Enough for Marilyn Manson to shout his safe word!


FTFY, take 2.


----------



## jonathan c

…👎😒….why don’t we just let Dave Brubeck work this one to Take Five…


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> I roll between VH2 and Lyr 3 frequently and they both do have their own character.  The Lyr 3 is my current choice only because I am using lower impedance Planar HPs.  They are both very good, but it did take more effort to get VH2 to its current level of awesomeness whereas it just came naturally to the Lyr 3.  I think they are both worth owning and it is worth owning both.


Curious. Have you ever used the Lyr 3 as a pre-amp to something else?

I can't believe the answer was revealed to me alone?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes, but I had better results with VH2 as it was tubier.  The Lyr 3 did a good job as a pre fed into my Cambridge Audio amp, but the result was minimal into Ragnarok.  Believe it or not, Ragnarok v1 is a bit tube-like and already sounds a lot like a Lyr 3 in general terms.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes, but I had better results with VH2 as it was tubier.  The Lyr 3 did a good job as a pre fed into my Cambridge Audio amp, but the result was minimal into Ragnarok.  Believe it or not, Ragnarok v1 is a bit tube-like and already sounds a lot like a Lyr 3 in general terms.


I’m thinking of getting an Aegir and use either my Magni3, Vali2+, or a Lyr3 as preamp. Any thoughts on what would be the best option given that Aegir should be a little “tubey” by itself (going by what I’ve read about it)?


----------



## JamminVMI (Oct 15, 2021)

tafens said:


> I’m thinking of getting an Aegir and use either my Magni3, Vali2+, or a Lyr3 as preamp. Any thoughts on what would be the best option given that Aegir should be a little “tubey” by itself (going by what I’ve read about it)?


Start with solid state Magni. After that, I’d say Vali 2 (but you have the 2+, which to me is more solid state-y). So next you should do an eeny-meeny (eenie-meenie?) to decide which one to try… In truth, does it matter? Try them all, you’re bound to have a favourite!


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> On VH2, I have as well, but it is touch and go -- mainly go-went-gone with 13 ohm Aeon Flow Closed.


Valhalla II couldn’t go with the flow 😖😒 …


----------



## tafens

JamminVMI said:


> Start with solid state Magni. After that, I’d say Vali 2 (but you have the 2+, which to me is more solid state-y). So next you should do an eeny-meeny (eenie-meenie?) to decide which one to try… In truth, does it matter? Try them all, you’re bound to have a favourite!


Thanks I’ll do that! This setup is mainly meant for use with the TV, and a nice thing about using one of those as a pre instead of a Saga or other dedicated pre amp is that I can easily plug in the headphones if need be.


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> Thanks I’ll do that! This setup is mainly meant for use with the TV, and a nice thing about using one of those as a pre instead of a Saga or other dedicated pre amp is that I can easily plug in the headphones if need be.


Exactly!


----------



## LLee7582

Just purchased a used Lyr 3 here on Head-fi... and enjoying it very much already. I currently have the Tung-Sol with a NOS Brimar on the way.  What differences can I look forward to hearing from the Brimars? Also, has anyone here tried the Lyr 3 with a 6922 tube with adaptor? I have a 75' Reflector 6922 and wanted to see if anyone here has tried it. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jonathan c

LLee7582 said:


> Just purchased a used Lyr 3 here on Head-fi... and enjoying it very much already. I currently have the Tung-Sol with a NOS Brimar on the way.  What differences can I look forward to hearing from the Brimars? Also, has anyone here tried the Lyr 3 with a 6922 tube with adaptor? I have a 75' Reflector 6922 and wanted to see if anyone here has tried it. Thanks in advance.


A rather indirect response: I have tried a number of 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 tubes on adapters versus 6SN7 / Melz 6N8S on adapters in a Woo WA6 (1st Gen.):  the 6922s should have pled _nolo contendere…_


----------



## JamminVMI

jonathan c said:


> A rather indirect response: I have tried a number of 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 tubes on adapters versus 6SN7 / Melz 6N8S on adapters in a Woo WA6 (1st Gen.):  the 6922s should have pled _nolo contendere…_


I like it t’other way ‘round, using 6SN7s via adapter on my Vali 2. But Using 6922 on Lyr did not appeal…


----------



## jonathan c

JamminVMI said:


> I like it t’other way ‘round, using 6SN7s via adapter on my Vali 2. But Using 6922 on Lyr did not appeal…


And, within the FAQ for the LYR3, Schiit Audio states that the 6SN7 tube family “sound better and perform better” than the 6DJ8 tube family. “In fact, the 6SN7 tube family is one of the most linear tubes ever made.”


----------



## LLee7582

Just got an adaptor so will try out the 6922 for a few listens…


----------



## LLee7582

JamminVMI said:


> I like it t’other way ‘round, using 6SN7s via adapter on my Vali 2. But Using 6922 on Lyr did not appeal…


Why not on the Lyr? Just wondering.


----------



## LLee7582

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/

This is the thread that I was reading thinking I was going to go for a Lyr or Lyr2 before a great deal on the 3 came up. Still wanted to try the tube that came out on top according to the person that did a tube shoot out. Going to let the tube burn in more but initial listen was pretty spot on to what the thread said in regards to the 75' Reflector 6922.


----------



## Ripper2860

Looks like the reviewer had an original Lyr which accepts 6922 natively.  I'm curious to hear your assessment once you've tried it on Lyr 3.


----------



## JohnBal

I have also have very good results using, with the proper adapter, 12au7 and 12at7 tube types. There really is a lot of options with this amp. YMMV


----------



## Ripper2860

I've had excellent results with 12AU/AT7 tubes with adapter.  In fact I count the 60s Brimar CV4033 as one of my favorites in Lyr 3.


----------



## JohnBal

Ripper2860 said:


> I've had excellent results with 12AU/AT7 tubes with adapter.  In fact I count the 60s Brimar CV4033 as one of my favorites in Lyr 3.


Yes. Totally agree. I would also add early RFT 12au7 and 12at7, and Siemens E81CC which is a 12at7 type. To me, these are all better than any 6sn7 I have tried.


----------



## JamminVMI (Oct 22, 2021)

LLee7582 said:


> Why not on the Lyr? Just wondering.


Sound was ‘thinner’ to me, not as ‘full’ - Might be me, dunno. Used a JJ that I like in my Vali 2… guess i’ll have to give it another go…


----------



## LLee7582

JohnBal said:


> Yes. Totally agree. I would also add early RFT 12au7 and 12at7, and Siemens E81CC which is a 12at7 type. To me, these are all better than any 6sn7 I have tried.


I'm sure you've answered this before...but where did you purchase the adaptor?


----------



## JohnBal

This is the one I bought. But they can be found from various sources.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## PoloJCP

DTgill said:


> I can't speak about the Valhalla2, but the Lyr3 has great volume that can drive headphones with lot's of detail and finesse, it's kind of like my ex-wife, beauty and a beast!
> 
> One thing that's nice, just one tube, 6sn7 and its variants, cheap to expensive rolling fun!
> 
> It's one piece I don't think I would sell.


Definitely true, I like the Lyr3 I ended up getting another one for a fellow Head-fi member here. One for the desk, one for bedside. Perfect!


----------



## tafens

PoloJCP said:


> Definitely true, I like the Lyr3 I ended up getting another one for a fellow Head-fi member here. One for the desk, one for bedside. Perfect!


One for home and one for office here 
Both paired with an HD6XX, but unfortunately I only have the one Bifrost2, so that one’s on the home rig. The office Lyr3 makes do with an internal multibit card.


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> One for home and one for office here
> Both paired with an HD6XX, but unfortunately I only have the one Bifrost2, so that one’s on the home rig. The office Lyr3 makes do with an internal multibit card.


I have Lyr 3 with Bifrost 2 at home, and Asgard 3 with Bifrost OG at the office.


----------



## nasty nate

Currently listening to the Dune Soundtrack by Hans Zimmer on the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack, and holy _____!   If you don't already have a pair of HD800S and love soundtrack music, I think you need to give them a try.


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> And that is even before they are in the amp  and are glowing!...



Is that the same tube as this?

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/prod...lack-plate-curvy-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/


----------



## tafens

watchnerd said:


> Is that the same tube as this?
> 
> https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/prod...lack-plate-curvy-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/


Looking backwards I see that his is a WE6S*N*7 Plus, this link is for the WE6S*L*7 Plus. The 6SL7, while I think it is electrically compatible, has a much higher gain and wouldn’t work well in practice. Cool looking tube nonetheless!


----------



## watchnerd

Just ordered a Lyr 3 in silver.

It will be an interesting compare / contrast to my Mjolnir 2.


----------



## G0rt

watchnerd said:


> Just ordered a Lyr 3 in silver.
> 
> It will be an interesting compare / contrast to my Mjolnir 2.


You're in for a treat. 😁

Lyr3 is a bipolar hybrid, vs the MOSFET MJ2, and many find a discernable difference, just by that. Very different topologies as well, Crossfet vs Continuity/Coherence. 

It's All Good(tm).

Me, today, Bifrost4490->Lyr3 with my usual 7N7 Frankie & recently reconfigured HD650 w/Dekoni Hybrids, no foams.

We are gratified, citizen. 🥰


----------



## MacMan31

bcowen said:


> But imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, is it not?  At least I left your purple alone.



Hey what are the dimensions of this stand? I know of someone locally who could possibly make one for me.


----------



## MacMan31

Paladin79 said:


> Thanks, I also did a Lyr 3 rack pretty early, and own most Schiit tube product made so I can stay on topic some.
> Mr. Cowen stole, um borrowed my idea.



Nice stack. Where did you get those cables. They are all the same colour so I presume they are of the same brand right? Also what is that VU meter thing?


----------



## Paladin79

MacMan31 said:


> Nice stack. Where did you get those cables. They are all the same colour so I presume they are of the same brand right? Also what is that VU meter thing?


I build all my own cables and the mesh is cotton based. I build VU meter boxes 
and often incorporate them in amps I designed. I can monitor signals throughout all my gear, I especially like them for measuring gain in a tube or tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

Just be aware that the system above is the _only_ one that has *the* ‘Finnegan auto-bias checking system’. This guarantees successful tube ‘rolling’ should that be pursued 😜…


----------



## Paladin79 (Nov 25, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Just be aware that the system above is the _only_ one that has *the* ‘Finnegan auto-bias checking system’. This guarantees successful tube ‘rolling’ should that be pursued 😜…


Finnegan knows tubes.😁


----------



## MacMan31

Paladin79 said:


> I build all my own cables and the mesh is cotton based. I build VU meter boxes and often incorporate them in amps I designed. I can monitor signals throughout all my gear, I especially like them for measuring gain in a tube or tubes.



That's awesome. Are those VU meter boxes difficult to build? What is the tube amp on the top and which Schiit amp is on top of the VU meters? I don't see it on their site. Also adorable ***** .... cat.


----------



## Paladin79

MacMan31 said:


> That's awesome. Are those VU meter boxes difficult to build? What is the tube amp on the top and which Schiit amp is on top of the VU meters? I don't see it on their site. Also adorable ***** .... cat.


The tube amp on top is an Incubus OTL headphone amp I designed. That is a Mjolnir headphone amp on top of the meters. They may have stopped selling those. The VU meter boxes are pretty simple to build but you best know the signal levels you want to measure. Mine are set up so I can switch between devices and all run well off of Schiit DACs with adjustment.


----------



## bcowen

MacMan31 said:


> Hey what are the dimensions of this stand? I know of someone locally who could possibly make one for me.


The shelves are 11" x 6.5".  

Funny, I honored @Paladin79 's dibs on purple and went with green, but he stole my Tiger maple anyway.


----------



## MacMan31

bcowen said:


> The shelves are 11" x 6.5".
> 
> Funny, I honored @Paladin79 's dibs on purple and went with green, but he stole my Tiger maple anyway.



Thanks for the measurements. Those cables look awesome. Green is my favourite colour.


----------



## bcowen

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the measurements. Those cables look awesome. Green is my favourite colour.


You are obviously a man of class and good taste.


----------



## Paladin79 (Nov 25, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the measurements. Those cables look awesome. Green is my favourite colour.


Yikes a mini Cowen.😜 I was going to help you with the VU meters too. Bill also danced around the fact that he stole my rack design.😉


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> You are obviously a man of class and good taste.


“Please allow me to introduce myself,
I’m a man of wealth and taste…”

[Sympathy For The Devil, Rolling Stones (London, 1968).


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> Yikes a mini Cowen.😜 I was going to help you with the VU meters too. Bill also danced around the fact that he stole my rack design.😉


Details, details.  Geeez.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Thanks for the measurements. Those cables look awesome. Green is my favourite colour.


It is Bangybang’s favourite colour, too.


----------



## Paladin79

jonathan c said:


> It is Bangybang’s favourite colour, too.


I have Cowen the source on the cotton mesh but they can run out of the popular colors, green always seems to be available.😜


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I have Cowen the source on the cotton mesh but they can run out of the popular colors, green always seems to be available.😜


I notified the vendor I was calling dibs on green, so they can't sell it to anyone else.


----------



## watchnerd

Paladin79 said:


> The tube amp on top is an Incubus OTL headphone amp I designed. That is a Mjolnir headphone amp on top of the meters. They may have stopped selling those. The VU meter boxes are pretty simple to build but you best know the signal levels you want to measure. Mine are set up so I can switch between devices and all run well off of Schiit DACs with adjustment.



The OG Mjolnir was replaced by the Mjolnir 2 (the model you appear to have, same as me) and they just stopped selling it about 6 months ago or so.


----------



## FLTWS

Paladin79 said:


> I build all my own cables and the mesh is cotton based. I build VU meter boxes and often incorporate them in amps I designed. I can monitor signals throughout all my gear, I especially like them for measuring gain in a tube or tubes.


Looks like Finnegan is keeping an eye on those tubes for you, so you can roll over and go back to sleep.


----------



## Paladin79 (Nov 26, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> The OG Mjolnir was replaced by the Mjolnir 2 (the model you appear to have, same as me) and they just stopped selling it about 6 months ago or so.


It is indeed the Mjolnir 2. I have owned most all tube gear Schiit made other than the Saga, since I have a Freya +.  I was also the first person outside of Schiit to get a Coaster amp going, another hybrid tube amp.


----------



## roadcykler

First of all, I apologize if this is covered in these 196 pages, but I couldn't find it, if so. I have the Lyr 3 with the non-multi bit DAC and am thinking about upgrading to the multibit version but have two questions. First, is it very difficult to do (I'm okay with electrical stuff and have built my own desktop)? Second, do you think there is much audible difference between the two DACs? Thanks.


----------



## JamminVMI

roadcykler said:


> First of all, I apologize if this is covered in these 196 pages, but I couldn't find it, if so. I have the Lyr 3 with the non-multi bit DAC and am thinking about upgrading to the multibit version but have two questions. First, is it very difficult to do (I'm okay with electrical stuff and have built my own desktop)? Second, do you think there is much audible difference between the two DACs? Thanks.


I have not compared the two, only external vs. internal. Unless you don’t have the room, I recommend an external DAC, one of the Modis, Modius, Bifrost. Not only do you get the extra inputs, but I think they sound better, every one of them. I was not at all fond of either of the internals.

My opinion only. YMMV. Lots of people like or need the one box solution. I am very interested in the forthcoming opinions on the two internals, though.


----------



## tafens

roadcykler said:


> First of all, I apologize if this is covered in these 196 pages, but I couldn't find it, if so. I have the Lyr 3 with the non-multi bit DAC and am thinking about upgrading to the multibit version but have two questions. First, is it very difficult to do (I'm okay with electrical stuff and have built my own desktop)? Second, do you think there is much audible difference between the two DACs? Thanks.


As you have experience putting your own computer together I don’t think you will find changing the DAC card difficult. Perhaps a little more fiddly as there is less room in the amp than the average PC.

One thing to note is that the multibit card requires an extra stand-off because of its size and orientation (I haven’t ordered a DAC card myself, only moved between units, but I expect the stand-off should be included when ordering the card for self-install).


----------



## atl1

Anyone know how long a backorder can last? Ordered the Lyr 3 on August 24th and still waiting on it


----------



## watchnerd

atl1 said:


> Anyone know how long a backorder can last? Ordered the Lyr 3 on August 24th and still waiting on it



Seriously?

Wow


----------



## atl1

atl1 said:


> Anyone know how long a backorder can last? Ordered the Lyr 3 on August 24th and still waiting on it


Yea lol. I understand if they're missing a single component then it will take time until they receive that, but I never thought it would take this long. I just emailed them for a possible update so we'll see.


----------



## vinnydotc

atl1 said:


> Yea lol. I understand if they're missing a single component then it will take time until they receive that, but I never thought it would take this long. I just emailed them for a possible update so we'll see.


Someone is selling one in the classified section if you don't want to wait lol.


----------



## atl1

vinnydotc said:


> Someone is selling one in the classified section if you don't want to wait lol.


I'm going to wait probably. At least until I hear back from them and hopefully get some a promising update.


----------



## Basil65 (Dec 18, 2021)

Just ordered mine, black, as their web site states it ships in 1-3 days... Curious to see how long it will be before they ship and then how long it will take to get to Canada with Fedex priority... hope to get it for the holidays as this is a xmas present from me to myself  If this works well I'll be seriously contemplating a Bifrost 2 to pair with it.

Any recommendations on burn-in time?


----------



## MacMan31

Basil65 said:


> Just ordered mine, black, as their web site states it ships in 1-3 days... Curious to see how long it will be before they ship and then how long it will take to get to Canada with Fedex priority... hope to get it for the holidays as this is a xmas present from me to myself  If this works well I'll be seriously contemplating a Bifrost 2 to pair with it.
> 
> Any recommendations on burn-in time?



Let us know how it goes with the Lyr 3. I am considering one for myself. I can personally recommend the Bifrost 2 as a DAC as I have one myself.


----------



## Basil65 (Dec 21, 2021)

OK. Ordered the Lyr on late Friday, got a shipping notification from Schiit on Monday morning and got a delivery this afternoon (yes, today is Tuesday!) Wow. Let it warm up to room temp for a couple of hours before I plugged it in as it was -11C here today and the Lyr was very cold to the touch when I unboxed it. Surprised by the weight. It's quite hefty! Just got it running and ... wow... just... wow. I can already tell I'll prefer this to my Topping A90. Can't wait to hear what it will sound like after a couple of days of break in.

Forgot to say. I was surprised the stock tube is Electro Harmonix. I somewhat thought it was Tung Sol.


----------



## tafens

Basil65 said:


> Forgot to say. I was surprised the stock tube is Electro Harmonix. I somewhat thought it was Tung Sol.


It was. I guess it still can be, but it can also be EH or JJ. I think it depends on which tube they can get enough of in the volume they need (Freya+ and Saga+ also use 6SN7). When I bought mine way back you could choose between TS and a Russian NOS 6SN7 equivalent (I think it was 6H8C Foton).


----------



## MacMan31

Does the volume knob on the Lyr 3 control the volume of the pre-outs? Or are the pre-outs a fixed volume?


----------



## Ichos

MacMan31 said:


> Does the volume knob on the Lyr 3 control the volume of the pre-outs? Or are the pre-outs a fixed volume?


Not fixed , they are pre outs.


----------



## MacMan31

Ichos said:


> Not fixed , they are pre outs.



So a fixed volume would be a "line out"? If the volume is not fixed then what would be the best settings to use this as a tube pre-amp?


----------



## Ichos

MacMan31 said:


> So a fixed volume would be a "line out"? If the volume is not fixed then what would be the best settings to use this as a tube pre-amp?


Yes a DAC line out would be fixed signal.
What would be the input source?


----------



## MacMan31

Ichos said:


> Yes a DAC line out would be fixed signal.
> What would be the input source?



The Bifrost II would be my DAC. So CD player and Node 2i into the BF II and RCA out into the Lyr 3 then pre-out into a stereo speaker amp. I'm looking into a Marantz PM8005.


----------



## bluemansegundo

MacMan31 said:


> Does the volume knob on the Lyr 3 control the volume of the pre-outs? Or are the pre-outs a fixed volume?


https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/why-do-i-need-a-preamp


----------



## Ichos

MacMan31 said:


> The Bifrost II would be my DAC. So CD player and Node 2i into the BF II and RCA out into the Lyr 3 then pre-out into a stereo speaker amp. I'm looking into a Marantz PM8005.


Depends on the output level of which I am not sure.
If you plan to connect it to a line input on the Marantz then I would aim for max if it is 2V.
If it is higher of 2V then you should experiment.

But you can connect the Lyr to the power amp input of the Marantz so this way you bypass the preamp section of the Marantz and you are using the Lyr as the preamp.

The downside is that you lose the remote control volume adjustment.


----------



## MacMan31

Ichos said:


> Depends on the output level of which I am not sure.
> If you plan to connect it to a line input on the Marantz then I would aim for max if it is 2V.
> If it is higher of 2V then you should experiment.
> 
> ...


Yeah true. Otherwise I would be double preamping which I assume wouldn't be ideal. Unless I go a slightly different route and do a power amp with a tube preamp. But then I still need a HP amp. I'm on a quest to try and seamlessly combine my HP setup with my speaker setup.


----------



## Ichos

MacMan31 said:


> Yeah true. Otherwise I would be double preamping which I assume wouldn't be ideal. Unless I go a slightly different route and do a power amp with a tube preamp. But then I still need a HP amp. I'm on a quest to try and seamlessly combine my HP setup with my speaker setup.


Bifrost has plenty of outputs.
You can do some nice combinations.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

My Lyr 3 will be arriving later this week.  I will be pairing it with the Modius.  Looking forward to tube rolling!


----------



## Ripper2860

dilbertprogrammer said:


> My Lyr 3 will be arriving later this week.  I will be pairing it with the Modius.  Looking forward to tube rolling *AND BEING HOMELESS!*


Fixed it for you.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

Ripper2860 said:


> Fixed it for you.


Bahahaha!!!  I will survive by the warmth of the glowing tube empire that shall be built.


----------



## Ripper2860




----------



## dilbertprogrammer

My first order (yes, one of many) of tubes arrived this evening.


----------



## cgb3 (Jan 5, 2022)

dilbertprogrammer said:


> My first order (yes, one of many) of tubes arrived this evening.


Good basic tubes.

I have the first 2, never went (old) Russian.

I purchased many tubes for my Lyr 3. Payed more than I should have for (many) 1940's and '50's era "new old stock".

I suggest you don't go down the "new old stock" rabbit hole.

Here's what I use now: https://www.vivatubes.com/new-gain-tested-psvane-6sn7-se-tennis-ball-vacuum-tube/

This after my first Chinese tube try cv181-z (still a very good tube).

I've got well more invested in single tubes than I spent on the amp.

With a good background in electronics, I recently had a stuck tube riser (socket saver) in my Lyr 3.

Unplug the unit, wait 1 hour, and go in with metallic hemostats. Yea, I blew out the board.

I think Schiit took pity on an idiot, and only charged me $200 + postage (I purchased my Lyr 3 2nd hand).


----------



## FLTWS

One of the difficulties with NOS is there is no reasonable, repeatable, accurate grading system. And, even if all meaningful measurements of a tube are made available they won't mean much to most people and unless you have a tube tester and the knowledge to go with it (and I don't) they probably won't help and can't be verified by you. So, it boils down to having a confidence factor in the supplier(s) you deal with.  I have several of the Tung-Sols above and I like them. I have one each of the other two but its been some time since I've used them so no comments. I have a number of NOS and NM(anufactured)S of many different types, some I like, some I don't. But that's all a part of the "tube experience". And as always, trust your ears to tell you what you like or prefer, or don't.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

cgb3 said:


> Good basic tubes.
> 
> I have the first 2, never went (old) Russian.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the tube suggestions and the guidance!

I have four more tubes, all older (from the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s) on the way. They are a mix of NOS and used. 

I'll do my best not to fall down the rabbit hole while experimenting.  Just have to remind myself it is about enjoying the journey and being fiscally responsible (as much as possible) along the way.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

FLTWS said:


> One of the difficulties with NOS is there is no reasonable, repeatable, accurate grading system. And, even if all meaningful measurements of a tube are made available they won't mean much to most people and unless you have a tube tester and the knowledge to go with it (and I don't) they probably won't help and can't be verified by you. So, it boils down to having a confidence factor in the supplier(s) you deal with.  I have several of the Tung-Sols above and I like them. I have one each of the other two but its been some time since I've used them so no comments. I have a number of NOS and NM(anufactured)S of many different types, some I like, some I don't. But that's all a part of the "tube experience". And as always, trust your ears to tell you what you like or prefer, or don't.



Thank you for the feedback!

Excellent point about the varying grading systems. I've noticed that among tube sellers and I have done as you have suggested and purchased my NOS/NM tubes from those with reputable feedback and solid references. 

And yes, I always let my ears be the final judge over measurements and subjective/opinions  across the hobby.  Looking forward to the next leg of the journey. 🎧


----------



## bcowen

dilbertprogrammer said:


> Thank you for the tube suggestions and the guidance!
> 
> I have four more tubes, all older (from the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s) on the way. They are a mix of NOS and used.
> 
> *I'll do my best not to fall down the rabbit hole while experimenting. * Just have to remind myself it is about enjoying the journey and being fiscally responsible (as much as possible) along the way.


The term "rabbit hole" is a misnomer when it comes to tubes.  It's actually a _black_ hole, and once you get near the event horizon you *will *be sucked in with no chance of escape. 🤣

Seriously, tube rolling is lots of fun.  It's only as expensive as you want it to be, and there are lots of tubes that are (relatively) inexpensive that sound great and can get your toe tapping.  I have some very expensive tubes I like a lot, but also some that I paid $5 for that I like a lot too. 😀


----------



## Barnstormer13

cgb3 said:


> Good basic tubes.
> 
> I have the first 2, never went (old) Russian.
> 
> ...


I’ve also found the PSVANE tubes work very well in the Lyr3 and is what I settled on. One nice bonus is they last a long time. That said, they’re not exactly cheap.


----------



## Odin412

Barnstormer13 said:


> I’ve also found the PSVANE tubes work very well in the Lyr3 and is what I settled on. One nice bonus is they last a long time. That said, they’re not exactly cheap.


Agreed - Psvane tubes sound great in the Lyr 3. I especially like the tennis ball version, which also looks very cool.


----------



## JamminVMI

Odin412 said:


> Agreed - Psvane tubes sound great in the Lyr 3. I especially like the tennis ball version, which also looks very cool.


I have their 6SN7-UK and the -SE (aka ‘tennis ball’) and I cannot tell the difference between them, and really like them both. I have yet to try the next level in Psvane expense, the CV181T Mk II. Anyone think it’s worth the coin?


----------



## Odin412

JamminVMI said:


> I have their 6SN7-UK and the -SE (aka ‘tennis ball’) and I cannot tell the difference between them, and really like them both. I have yet to try the next level in Psvane expense, the CV181T Mk II. Anyone think it’s worth the coin?


I have all three versions and for the Lyr 3 I prefer the tennis ball version. For the Saga preamp that I use in my speaker system I prefer the CV181 version with grey glass. It doesn't look as cool, but it sounds better to my ears.


----------



## cgb3

Barnstormer13 said:


> I’ve also found the PSVANE tubes work very well in the Lyr3 and is what I settled on. One nice bonus is they last a long time. That said, they’re not exactly cheap.


How many simple pleasures are available for ~$60? I'm pretty shure Lou Lou has retired.


----------



## JamminVMI

Odin412 said:


> I have all three versions and for the Lyr 3 I prefer the tennis ball version. For the Saga preamp that I use in my speaker system I prefer the CV181 version with grey glass. It doesn't look as cool, but it sounds better to my ears.


Fair, ty. I have the -UK in my Saga at the moment.


----------



## nasty nate

I also use the tennis ball (as my daily driver - in the Lyr 98% of the time) - can attest to the cool looks 😏


----------



## Barnstormer13

nasty nate said:


> I also use the tennis ball (as my daily driver - in the Lyr 98% of the time) - can attest to the cool looks 😏


Definitely looks better than the grey glass I’m running.


----------



## JamminVMI

Barnstormer13 said:


> Definitely looks better than the grey glass I’m running.


Whose is that? Doggone Psvane is no fun with the inner glass silvered…

Edit: but it sounds brilliant…


----------



## billbishere

Just got my Lyr 3 in 2 days ago.  Been loving it so far!  Upgraded from the Liquid Spark.  Using Topping D50s as the DAC.  I can say, it's the first time I have been able to tell a difference when switching the DAC Filters.  Before with the Spark I just don't think it was sensitive enough to matter but, they do something now.  If anyone is using a D50s I am using filter 5.

I also look forward to a bit of tube rolling


----------



## billbishere

Well - it has started already!!!  lol


----------



## billbishere (Jan 13, 2022)

Has anyone noticed on the JJ tubes with one side being dimmer than the other...  there isn't any funny popping or noise, I dont know about nuance change tho because I have nothing to compare it too.  I have already ordered another tube to do tube rolling but, would like to know if this one is faulty.  It's only 2 days old.

You can see here, the left rail is bright but the right is dim in comparison Anyone else see or experience this?  and it appears to be just the very top that has the dimmer light.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

Well... I'm now up to 8 tubes on-hand, 1 arrives tomorrow, and 3 arrive on Saturday.  I've been _mostly_ fiscally responsible thus far.   I'm thoroughly enjoying experiencing how the sound changes with each tube.  I've been spending a good day or so with each tube.  Oh, and I'm pondering the purchase of three specific tubes you good folks keep recommending.  

On-Hand:

electro-harmonix 6SN7EH gold pin
JJ Electronic 6SN7
Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB (New Production) x 2
Tung-Sol 6SN7GT (NOS)
Sovtek 6SN7GT
1956 GE 6SN7GTB (NOS)
RCA 6SN7GTB (Used)

Arriving tomorrow:

MAGNAVOX 6SN7GTB with black plate, silver top (Used)

Arriving Saturday:

Sylvania 6SN7GTB with chrome top (NOS)
Sylvania 6SN7GTB with clear glass (NOS)
CBS 6SN7GTB (NOS)

Pondering:

Psvane 6SN7-SE Tennis Ball
Psvane CV181-T MKII (Grey Glass)
KenRad VT-231 (Black Glass)


----------



## jonathan c

dilbertprogrammer said:


> Well... I'm now up to 8 tubes on-hand, 1 arrives tomorrow, and 3 arrive on Saturday.  I've been _mostly_ fiscally responsible thus far.  I'm thoroughly enjoying experiencing how the sound changes with each tube.  I've been spending a good day or so with each tube.  Oh, and I'm pondering the purchase of three specific tubes you good folks keep recommending.
> 
> On-Hand:
> 
> ...


Put on ‘get’ list:

• Ken-Rad VT-231 (black / clear glass);
• CBS / Hytron 5692 (brown base);
• RCA 5692 (red base).

These will ‘turbocharge’ the performance of the Lyr 3 !!


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

jonathan c said:


> Put on ‘get’ list:
> 
> • Ken-Rad VT-231 (black / clear glass);
> • CBS / Hytron 5692 (brown base);
> ...



Added to the list!  Thanks!


----------



## JamminVMI

billbishere said:


> Has anyone noticed on the JJ tubes with one side being dimmer than the other...  there isn't any funny popping or noise, I dont know about nuance change tho because I have nothing to compare it too.  I have already ordered another tube to do tube rolling but, would like to know if this one is faulty.  It's only 2 days old.
> 
> You can see here, the left rail is bright but the right is dim in comparison Anyone else see or experience this?  and it appears to be just the very top that has the dimmer light.


Look at it through the uncoated glass (if u have a dental mirror handy)…?


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Westinghouse (Reliatron) 6SN7GTB with black offset plates and square top getter.  Probably one of the finest pairings w/ Lyr 3, with a few folks (myself included) preferring it over the KR VT-231.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124450160435?epid=1804072482&hash=item1cf9cebf33:g:vrMAAOSwOCxgyfgb


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Westinghouse (Reliatron) 6SN7GTB with black offset plates and square top getter.  Probably one of the finest pairings w/ Lyr 3, with a few folks (myself included) preferring it over the KR VT-231.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124450160435?epid=1804072482&hash=item1cf9cebf33:g:vrMAAOSwOCxgyfgb


I'd love to get back to NOS valves. I've "invested" ~$1,000 or so in vintage 6SN7 tubes. Many fine pre-1950 US tubes (as I liked that sound). Everything, one off. I sell the Lyr 3, my collection is worthless (except to other one tube amp owners). I'll continue to roll my collection through my Lyr 3, and enjoy.

My current use valves are Chinese, new manufacture. The PSVane tennis ball, and the PSVane CV-181z. No wondering if they're "good". If they're the NOS "as described" by the seller. I've had a couple of "new old stock" fail. Age can affect soldier joints as well as human joints. New is always good.

New Chinese sound as good or better (mostly better) than old. (I really hate saying that).


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## Ripper2860 (Jan 14, 2022)

I have a CV-181Z and it is good.  I still prefer the WH and a few of my other NOS tubes (Foton, Brimar, Fivre, RCA, and various Sylvanias), but it ain't by much!


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a CV-181Z and it is good.  I still prefer the WH and a few of my other NOS tubes, but it ain't by much!



Westinghouse Reliatron 6SN7GTB (black offset plates square top getter) has been added to the list!


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## Ripper2860 (Jan 14, 2022)

Don't even get me started on use of adapted 12AT/U7 family of tubes w/ Lyr 3!


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## billbishere (Jan 14, 2022)

I just ordered a Psvane 6SN7-UK - I am stoked to hear it!  Hopeuflly it will be the only one I buy.  Got it for a decent price too, $63 shipped


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## JamminVMI

billbishere said:


> I just ordered a Psvane 6SN7-UK - I am stoked to hear it!  Hopeuflly it will be the only one I buy.  Got it for a decent price too, $63 shipped


Thatks about right, great tube. I’m contemplating the CV181T mkII, that’s when it gets expensive… (for new production, anyhow.)


----------



## bcowen

cgb3 said:


> I'd love to get back to NOS valves. I've "invested" ~$1,000 or so in vintage 6SN7 tubes. Many fine pre-1950 US tubes (as I liked that sound). Everything, one off. I sell the Lyr 3, my collection is worthless (except to other one tube amp owners). I'll continue to roll my collection through my Lyr 3, and enjoy.
> 
> My current use valves are Chinese, new manufacture. The PSVane tennis ball, and the PSVane CV-181z. No wondering if they're "good". If they're the NOS "as described" by the seller. I've had a couple of "new old stock" fail. Age can affect soldier joints as well as human joints. New is always good.
> 
> New Chinese sound as good or better (mostly better) than old. (I really hate saying that).


I agree completely that new Chinese tubes sound better than old Chinese tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

cgb3 said:


> I'd love to get back to NOS valves. I've "invested" ~$1,000 or so in vintage 6SN7 tubes. Many fine pre-1950 US tubes (as I liked that sound). Everything, one off. I sell the Lyr 3, my collection is worthless (except to other one tube amp owners). I'll continue to roll my collection through my Lyr 3, and enjoy.
> 
> My current use valves are Chinese, new manufacture. The PSVane tennis ball, and the PSVane CV-181z. No wondering if they're "good". If they're the NOS "as described" by the seller. I've had a couple of "new old stock" fail. Age can affect soldier joints as well as human joints. New is always good.
> 
> New Chinese sound as good or better (mostly better) than old. (I really hate saying that).


~$1,000?  Pffft. That number qualifies you for a 1 day visitor pass into the 'Rabbit Hole Club' where the big boys hangout.  😏


----------



## FLTWS




----------



## cgb3

cgb3 said:


> I'd love to get back to NOS valves. I've "invested" ~$1,000 or so in vintage 6SN7 tubes. Many fine pre-1950 US tubes (as I liked that sound). Everything, one off. I sell the Lyr 3, my collection is worthless (except to other one tube amp owners). I'll continue to roll my collection through my Lyr 3, and enjoy.
> 
> My current use valves are Chinese, new manufacture. The PSVane tennis ball, and the PSVane CV-181z. No wondering if they're "good". If they're the NOS "as described" by the seller. I've had a couple of "new old stock" fail. Age can affect soldier joints as well as human joints. New is always good.
> 
> New Chinese sound as good or better (mostly better) than old. (I really hate saying that).





Ripper2860 said:


> ~$1,000?  Pffft. That number qualifies you for a 1 day visitor pass into the 'Rabbit Hole Club' where the big boys hangout.  😏


Do I get a token, or better yet a ribbon?

No reproach. I'm an idiot.


----------



## bcowen

cgb3 said:


> Do I get a token, or better yet a ribbon?
> 
> No reproach. I'm an idiot.


At least you didn't spend $1000 on _these_ like @Ripper2860 did.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> ~$1,000?  Pffft. That number qualifies you for a 1 day visitor pass into the 'Rabbit Hole Club' where the big boys hangout.  😏


Step aside, please!….$1,000 _per tube_ will allow for _application_ to the “Golden Getter Group” ! 😤


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> At least you didn't spend $1000 on _these_ like @Ripper2860 did.


Those boxes are worth much more when _empty !_


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## Ripper2860

I use those GE boxes to hide my premium tubes from @bcowen .


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## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> Step aside, please!….$1,000 _per tube_ will allow for _application_ to the “Golden Getter Group” ! 😤


Also known as the 'Ben Dover Tube Consortium'.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I use those GE boxes to hide my premium *tube* from @bcowen .


FTFY.


----------



## Ripper2860

My plan is working!  😛


----------



## Barnstormer13

JamminVMI said:


> Thatks about right, great tube. I’m contemplating the CV181T mkII, that’s when it gets expensive… (for new production, anyhow.)


One thing about the CV181T MkII: takes forever to break in. Mine didn’t settle down until around 100 hours.


----------



## Barnstormer13

I tried my travel earphones on the Lyr 3 this week. Turned out to be an exceptionally good pairing. They do well on my portable rig, but the improvement when using the Bifrost2 + Lyr3 points at the best synergy I’ve found yet with the Lyr 3.

The earphones are FIIO FH7s. They’re very  good earphones with outstanding performance to price, but the sound signature just begs for some tube love. The Lyr 3 gives them what their little low impedance hearts desire and the result is glorious!  Super, super super clear, detailed sound that sounds natural and at the same time better than real. It’s my current favorite pairing.


----------



## billbishere

Got my Psvane UK version installed yesterday.  I actually managed to insert it wrong to begin with, it was 1 pin wrong clockwise.  I am a idiot, thank goodness it didn't seem to make a connection because all is good and it neve responded when I powered it on.  I assume that little "slot" thing would not let it install all the way, I was thinking it was hard to push in...smh Only had it on for about 10 seconds and saw it wasn't coming on so, pulled it and tried again.  Been running it for the last 24 hours and it sounds fantastic!  

Right out the box it was better - I could hear it in the bass and overall dynamics.  Not to mention it doesn't pick up EMI as bad as the JJ tube was, it was super noisy in comparison.  Everything about Psvane is better than the JJ, this is my one and only tube roll!  I only look for it to improve as it burns in.


----------



## bcowen

billbishere said:


> Got my Psvane UK version installed yesterday.  I actually managed to insert it wrong to begin with, it was 1 pin wrong clockwise.  I am a idiot, thank goodness it didn't seem to make a connection because all is good and it neve responded when I powered it on.  I assume that little "slot" thing would not let it install all the way, I was thinking it was hard to push in...smh Only had it on for about 10 seconds and saw it wasn't coming on so, pulled it and tried again.  Been running it for the last 24 hours and it sounds fantastic!
> 
> Right out the box it was better - I could hear it in the bass and overall dynamics.  Not to mention it doesn't pick up EMI as bad as the JJ tube was, it was super noisy in comparison.  Everything about Psvane is better than the JJ, this is my one and only tube roll!  I only look for it to improve as it burns in.


Awesome!  But you realize this is a good news/bad news thing, right?  The good news is your first roll sounds great. But that's also the bad news, 'cause now it's _only_ your *first* roll. Condolences to your wallet. 😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Awesome!  But you realize this is a good news/bad news thing, right?  The good news is your first roll sounds great. But that's also the bad news, 'cause now it's _only_ your *first* roll. Condolences to your wallet. 😂😂


Wallet : R.I.P. 🪦 [Remain In Payments].


----------



## Odin412

billbishere said:


> Got my Psvane UK version installed yesterday.  I actually managed to insert it wrong to begin with, it was 1 pin wrong clockwise.  I am a idiot, thank goodness it didn't seem to make a connection because all is good and it neve responded when I powered it on.  I assume that little "slot" thing would not let it install all the way, I was thinking it was hard to push in...smh Only had it on for about 10 seconds and saw it wasn't coming on so, pulled it and tried again.  Been running it for the last 24 hours and it sounds fantastic!
> 
> Right out the box it was better - I could hear it in the bass and overall dynamics.  Not to mention it doesn't pick up EMI as bad as the JJ tube was, it was super noisy in comparison.  Everything about Psvane is better than the JJ, this is my one and only tube roll!  I only look for it to improve as it burns in.


Congratulations! The Psvane tubes are great. Enjoy the tube rolling journey!


----------



## billbishere (Jan 16, 2022)

I am not sure how many tubes I will be rolling, I really just want to upgrade the things I can and leave it alone.  I have a Loki EQ if I need to change the sound, and will probably upgrade to the Lokius at some point.


However I did just order this, just to get all the cables upgraded a bit.

https://www.pangeaaudio.com/NEW-PGAC14-1.5

Not expecting much audio change but, I do hope it will clean up the EMI a bit more.  It's 14Gauge vs 18 gauge of the stock, and really the stock cable is just a generic $1 cable so it was worth an upgrade to me.  There are tons of controversy on whether power cables change the sound so we will see, one can only try things and test for myself.


I use a Pangea USB cable for the DAC and it's been great I really like this company for higher end quality cables without breaking the bank.

https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-Audio-Premier-SE-USB-cable?quantity=1&length-metric=3

Also Pangea RCA Interconnects

https://www.pangeaaudio.com/Pangea-...CA?quantity=1&length-metric=2&pair-single=101

they have been amazing for EMI and they sound great, not saying they made a huge difference because I never did A / B testing but everything is clear and silent.  they cleaned things up quite a bit from the Amazon ones I was using.


----------



## jonathan c

billbishere said:


> I am not sure how many tubes I will be rolling, I really just want to upgrade the things I can and leave it alone.  I have a Loki EQ if I need to change the sound, and will probably upgrade to the Lokius at some point.
> 
> 
> However I did just order this, just to get all the cables upgraded a bit.
> ...


•  Pangea makes great cables! And they are inexpensive! I have a number of their Premier SE interconnects (RCA and XLR) 👍.
•  Have you looked into a power conditioner / surge protector to which all your gear is plugged? That will put a definite end to EMI etc, lower the “noise floor”, increase dynamic range.


----------



## billbishere

jonathan c said:


> •  Pangea makes great cables! And they are inexpensive! I have a number of their Premier SE interconnects (RCA and XLR) 👍.
> •  Have you looked into a power conditioner / surge protector to which all your gear is plugged? That will put a definite end to EMI etc, lower the “noise floor”, increase dynamic range.



I have considered it but, I am not sure I wanna spend that kind of money on the power.  I do have a Pure Sine Wave UPS that the audio gear is plugged into along with my PC.  That stabilizes the power and cleans it up quite a bit from the outlet. But you are right a true Audio Power Condition is the very best.


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 16, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> •  Pangea makes great cables! And they are inexpensive! I have a number of their Premier SE interconnects (RCA and XLR) 👍.
> •  Have you looked into a power conditioner / surge protector to which all your gear is plugged? That will put a definite end to EMI etc, lower the “noise floor”, increase dynamic range.


That's why I have their AC's on all my equipment. They appear to be of good materials and build and the connectors at both ends fit very snuggly, and as cables go, they are a bargain priced. I do use Furman's 15 PFi's on both my audio rigs, plenty of AC sockets, nice feature set.


----------



## jonathan c

The Furman Elite-15i is what I have used for four+ years. It was designed by Garth Powell, now in charge of power conditioning engineering for Audioquest. The 15-i is slimline, has seven sockets, _does its job, _and is reasonably priced. 👍


----------



## bcowen

billbishere said:


> I have considered it but,* I am not sure I wanna spend that kind of money on the power.*  I do have a Pure Sine Wave UPS that the audio gear is plugged into along with my PC.  That stabilizes the power and cleans it up quite a bit from the outlet. But you are right a true Audio Power Condition is the very best.


Looking at it another way, what you're _really_ listening to is the AC coming out of the wall.  The amp just modifies it into a signal your HP's understand...


----------



## billbishere

New Power cable arrived!


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## Ripper2860 (Jan 19, 2022)

+ 1 for Pangea power cords.  All my gear uses their AC-15 14SE.


----------



## billbishere

Ripper2860 said:


> + 1 for Pangea power cords.  All my gear uses their AC-15SE.


you mean, AC-14se?  mine is AC-14... the SE is the next up.... unless you have a older model or something.


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## Ripper2860

Oooops.  Typo has been corrected.  AC14SE.  Thx!!


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## FLTWS (Jan 19, 2022)

billbishere said:


> you mean, AC-14se?  mine is AC-14... the SE is the next up.... unless you have a older model or something.


I got the original plain Jane 14 gauger's and 2 or 3 of the 14 SE for 1.5 and 2.0 meters.

Found this on the net, Pangea's line up back in 2018.

https://www.pangeaaudio.com/cables/power-cables?page=2

Pretty sure I got them when the prices were even lower and I look at it as a one time investment as they are reusable!


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 19, 2022)

While we're on the topic, here's a Pangea collectible . I bought 3 of these heavy duty 20 amp beauties a few years back. I only needed 2 but in this hobby you always need spares and backups. These came in 3 or 4 different colors if I remember correctly. I went with red so that in the event I should ever move I would know to take them with me.
They work perfectly holding the substantial Pangea, "He Man" style male plug prongs firmly.
They sold these at the audio jewelry price of $19.95 each!
They stopped offering them as far as I know.


----------



## billbishere

FLTWS said:


> While we're on the topic, here's a Pangea collectible . I bought 3 of these heavy duty 20 amp beauties a few years back. I only needed 2 but in this hobby you always need spares and backups. These came in 3 or 4 different colors if I remember correctly. I went with red so that in the event I should ever move I would know to take them with me.
> They work perfectly holding the substantial Pangea, "He Man" style male plug prongs firmly.
> They sold these at the audio jewelry price of $19.95 each!
> They stopped offering them as far as I know.


wow, that's cool!  looks like there is a updated version.

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPRSE


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## jleewachter

Just got my Lyr 3 a few days ago and have been enjoying it quite a lot. In all honesty, it sounds pretty identical to my previous Vali 2, but the increase in build quality, along w/ the much nicer pot/volume control is very much worth it. Plus the increase in headroom is always nice. Any recommendations on a first tube to roll? It came w/ a JJ 6SN7 (which i'm assuming was stock.) Looking for something warmer if possible.


----------



## jonathan c

jleewachter said:


> Just got my Lyr 3 a few days ago and have been enjoying it quite a lot. In all honesty, it sounds pretty identical to my previous Vali 2, but the increase in build quality, along w/ the much nicer pot/volume control is very much worth it. Plus the increase in headroom is always nice. Any recommendations on a first tube to roll? It came w/ a JJ 6SN7 (which i'm assuming was stock.) Looking for something warmer if possible.


You will notice a difference, over time, between Lyr 3 and Vali 2: not the least of which is the difference between 6SN7 tubes and 6922 tubes. The JJ is ‘stock’. For a little warmth, deeper bass without sacrificing airy treble, try the Sylvania 6SN7 ‘chrome domes’.


----------



## tafens

jleewachter said:


> Just got my Lyr 3 a few days ago and have been enjoying it quite a lot. In all honesty, it sounds pretty identical to my previous Vali 2, but the increase in build quality, along w/ the much nicer pot/volume control is very much worth it. Plus the increase in headroom is always nice. Any recommendations on a first tube to roll? It came w/ a JJ 6SN7 (which i'm assuming was stock.) Looking for something warmer if possible.



I haven’t listened to the JJ enough to make comparisons against it, but here are a few tubes that I think are worth a try:

On the new production side, in my opinion the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB is certainly worth a try (Russian made, $30-ish). A bit more expensive but still not crazy money, the CV181-Z (Chinese made, $60-ish).

On the NOS side, the 6N8S Foton (Russian 6SN7 equivalent) is certainly worth a try and very affordable ($6-ish).


----------



## billbishere

PSVANE UK tube added some nice bass for me, and overall dynamics.


----------



## jonathan c

Schiit Lyr III on the job with co-worker ZMF Atticus (lots of overtime…unpaid 🤣😏)


----------



## cgb3 (Jan 20, 2022)

billbishere said:


> I am not sure how many tubes I will be rolling, I really just want to upgrade the things I can and leave it alone.  I have a Loki EQ if I need to change the sound, and will probably upgrade to the Lokius at some point.
> 
> 
> However I did just order this, just to get all the cables upgraded a bit.
> ...


I'm curious, regarding your power cable. https://www.pangeaaudio.com/NEW-PGAC14-1.5

The city electrical grid is made by the lowest bid to the presented specs.

It's carried to your home/apartment, where the wiring was graded and installed by the cheapest bid.

How is a very expensive power cable reaching from the wall to your equipment going to make a difference?


----------



## jonathan c

That is where this (or an equivalent) comes in:


----------



## bcowen (Jan 20, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious, regarding your power cable. https://www.pangeaaudio.com/NEW-PGAC14-1.5
> 
> The city electrical grid is made by the lowest bid to the presented specs.
> 
> ...


Oh good grief.  This topic has probably stirred more flame wars than everything else _combined_ in the entire history of the internet.  And every last one has ended up exactly the same way:  those that don't think a power cord can make a sonic difference continue to think a power cord can't make a sonic difference, and those that do continue to, well, do.

Everyone can thank me later for saving them all the typing in between.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 22, 2022)

As far as High End Power cords and fuses go...

I personally think it's a placebo, but I don't care if the improvement is imaginary or real as long as I hear it.  😏


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> As far as High End Power cords and fuses go...
> 
> I personally, I think it's a placebo but I don't care if the improvement I hear is imaginary or real as long as I hear it.  😏


OMG, I forgot fuses!

Next thing to mock.


----------



## cgb3

bcowen said:


> Everyone can thank me later for saving them all the typing in between.


Hey, I've got a 160 rate, that established on the great round ball IBM Selectric.

I can literally propagate the stupid faster than my brain can think.


----------



## DTgill

jonathan c said:


> That is where this (or an equivalent) comes in:


I was thinking about buying one of these, but it doesn't have enough plug ins...


----------



## Odin412

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious, regarding your power cable. https://www.pangeaaudio.com/NEW-PGAC14-1.5
> 
> The city electrical grid is made by the lowest bid to the presented specs.
> 
> ...


That's a very good question. Cables tend to elicit a binary response: Some people are totally into cables and are amazed by the sonic differences that they hear. Others don't hear any differences and don't care. I'm in the second group.


----------



## jonathan c

DTgill said:


> I was thinking about buying one of these, but it doesn't have enough plug ins...


There are other Furmans with 13 sockets.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> There are other Furmans with 13 sockets.


Or just add as many of these high quality devices as needed.  "Hyper" is layperson speak for "quantum", so they must be really good.


----------



## jonathan c

Feature attractions coming soon to a Lyr ‘nyr’ me…


----------



## DTgill

jonathan c said:


> There are other Furmans with 13 sockets.


Yeah, I couldn't afford to go to expensive right at this time I picked up a WAudio Noise filter, it has 8 filtered and 4 direct plug ins and I have a Furman SS6B with 6 plug ins working together, they seem to be doing the job for now.


----------



## jonathan c

DTgill said:


> Yeah, I couldn't afford to go to expensive right at this time I picked up a WAudio Noise filter, it has 8 filtered and 4 direct plug ins and I have a Furman SS6B with 6 plug ins working together, they seem to be doing the job for now.


You are set up. It’s probably better to have 2 ‘smaller’ units than 1 megalon. More flexibility in hooking gear up.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Oh good grief.  This topic has probably stirred more flame wars than everything else _combined_ in the entire history of the internet.  And every last one has ended up exactly the same way:  those that don't think a power cord can make a sonic difference continue to think a power cord can't make a sonic difference, and those that do continue to, well, do.
> 
> Everyone can thank me later for saving them all the typing in between.


Now, about those power cords that go into a ‘sideways’ h/p/a…🤨


----------



## tafens

jonathan c said:


> Feature attractions coming soon to a Lyr ‘nyr’ me…


Cool! 
Now an adapter for 6SN7 to 6922 and a noval extender and the Vali2 is good to go too


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 21, 2022)

I've never heard a power cord make a difference in the sound, but some fit more snugly than others. And as all my equipment is on 3 racks with casters and I make enough changes a year requiring moving the racks around... . But I bought the cheapest in the line and stick to 14 gauge as that's the same size as the Romex in the walls.

I've never heard a digital cable make a difference in the sound. IC's sometimes yes, sometimes no. HP cables show me more consistent differences in sound. I think this might expend to speaker cables as well but I'm happy with Blue Jeans and don't want to spend the big bucks to "experiment" with others and most of my listening is with HP's so....

Perceived build quality, flexibility and aesthetics also play a role for me as well as the ability to cleanly dress them away from other cables and secure them in place The right combination of flexabilty and stiffness, some point in between the two extremes. When I substitute gear the plugs are always in the same spot ready to hook in with no adjustments needed.

The two pieces of gear I have that are highly susceptible to even the least amount of power interruption for any reason requiring a reboot are my 2 Yggdrasil's. I've reached the point where I turn them completely off when I make a change and turn them back on when the stands are back in their permanent place. The plugs are always firmly seated so I'm not sure what's going on.

Here's an old pic of one of my 2 rigs from 2018, things change up over time.


----------



## billbishere

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious, regarding your power cable. https://www.pangeaaudio.com/NEW-PGAC14-1.5
> 
> The city electrical grid is made by the lowest bid to the presented specs.
> 
> ...


EMI... I dont expect sonic difference, however it did help with EMI.  You do you, I will do me.


----------



## jclyle

I've got a new to me Lyr3 coming next week!
But I don't have any 6SN7s to roll.
If anyone has a few tubes they want to unload, send me a message. I'm looking for quality and dead quiet, not a bunch of noisy rejects.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Now, about those power cords that go into a ‘sideways’ h/p/a…🤨


I just order them with a right-angle plug.  The 90 degree turn speeds up the electrons and helps shear off any noise molecules that may be clinging to them.


----------



## cgb3

"noise molecules" Well done. Who said snark hasn't an upside?

Could there be a better name for a band (maybe punk)? I think I may have to take a trip in the way back machine.

I'd trademark that name at the earliest opportunity. (not kidding)


----------



## JamminVMI

cgb3 said:


> "noise molecules" Well done. Who said snark hasn't an upside?
> 
> Could there be a better name for a band (maybe punk)? I think I may have to take a trip in the way back machine.
> 
> I'd trademark that name at the earliest opportunity. (not kidding)


Toad the Wet Sprocket needed some of those!


----------



## roadcykler

bcowen said:


> I just order them with a right-angle plug.  The 90 degree turn speeds up the electrons and helps shear off any noise molecules that may be clinging to them.




You could write for any company selling their ridiculously priced, yet no difference making power cables.


----------



## bagwell359 (Jan 22, 2022)

I've detected some differences in power cables - but for me they happen in rooms with stone walls (exterior) and concrete floors.  Must be an insulation thing because in other envs doesn't happen.

In the mid 90's I went to a dealers house/showroom and heard a system with with 5 $5k each cables installed
  I brought along my used Synergistics and it was the same sound as the ones costing 20x more - last time I spent for a power cord that wasn't generic - 26 years ago.  Also for the first time heard the Verity Parsifal - a great speaker I later owned.

Do you know your home wiring?  Aluminium?  Oxidized?  How about the local transformer?  Nice and new or one that crackles in the rain?  1, 2, 3 miles to the source?  How does 1 or 2 meters of wire make up for shortfalls?

BTW 90 degrees no good... Only a golden ratio shape has the proper karma so no electrons are lost.


----------



## Halimj7

Anyone Is the lyr multibit lush and warm sounding? Thanks.


----------



## bcowen

Halimj7 said:


> Anyone Is the lyr multibit lush and warm sounding? Thanks.


No.


----------



## bcowen (Jan 22, 2022)

bagwell359 said:


> Do you know your home wiring?  Aluminium?  Oxidized?  How about the local transformer?  Nice and new or one that crackles in the rain?  1, 2, 3 miles to the source?  How does 1 or 2 meters of wire make up for shortfalls?
> 
> *BTW 90 degrees no good...* Only a golden ratio shape has the proper karma so no electrons are lost.


90 degrees is *much* better than 180 degrees.  Don't ask me how I know this.


----------



## gikigill

I twist two power cables in a litz weave to improve sound in my Lyr 3.

/s


----------



## bcowen

gikigill said:


> I twist two power cables in a litz weave to improve sound in my Lyr 3.
> 
> /s


ROFL!  But.....did you have both cables cryo treated, or only one of them?


----------



## gikigill

They are made of unobtainium, cryo treated, heat treated, quad shielded, nanotube injected, graphene casted and have perfectly zero inductance, resistance and Impedance. 

I can hear Jason Stoddards thoughts through the amplifier using these cables.


----------



## jonathan c

gikigill said:


> They are made of unobtainium, cryo treated, heat treated, quad shielded, nanotube injected, graphene casted and have perfectly zero inductance, resistance and Impedance.


No ‘quantum’ stratification?…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> No ‘quantum’ stratification?…


Quantums like to tunnel, not stratify.  Synergistic Research was the first to go public with this after conducting exhaustive interviews with specially selected focus groups.  I thought everyone knew this?!?


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Quantums like to tunnel, not stratify.  Synergistic Research was the first to go public with this after conducting exhaustive interviews with specially selected focus groups.  I thought everyone knew this?!?


The plural is ‘quanta’ - almost like UT’s airline QANTAS…


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 23, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Quantums like to tunnel, not stratify.  Synergistic Research was the first to go public with this after conducting exhaustive interviews with specially selected focus groups.  I thought everyone knew this?!?


•  You may have pinpointed the essential Head-Fi mystery: if quanta like to tunnel, the energy used is why tube ‘rabbit’ holes become tube ‘black’ holes. That displaced energy creates a vacuum which, ironically, prevents escape by tube rollers.
•  Please check your availability for the award 🏆and the cheque 💶 to be given in Stockholm.


----------



## bcowen (Jan 23, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> The plural is ‘quanta’ - almost like UT’s airline QANTAS…


Oh, sure.  Next you'll be telling me that a group of Minions are actually Minia.  I'm only moderately gullible.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> •  You may have pinpointed the essential Head-Fi mystery: if quanta like to tunnel, the energy used is why tube ‘rabbit’ holes become tube ‘black’ holes. *That displaced energy creates a vacuum which, ironically, prevents escape by tube rollers.*
> •  Please check your availability for the award 🏆and the cheque 💶 to be given in Stockholm.


This is exactly what happened to me, kind of.  Didn't even know I'd discovered it until now!


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 23, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Oh, sure.  Next you'll be telling me that a group of Minions are actually Minia.  I'm only moderately gullible.


That’s why BB, M, W_H_T avoid you…


----------



## gikigill

jonathan c said:


> No ‘quantum’ stratification?…



Now thats where I draw the limit on snake oil.


----------



## jonathan c

Then ponder this…an actual product…😳:


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Then ponder this…an actual product…😳:


LOL!  If their fuses are magic, their outlets must be supernatural.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  If their fuses are magic, their outlets must be supernatural.


Well they do say ‘ultra’. I’m in ! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 25, 2022)

bcowen said:


> LOL!  If their fuses are magic, their outlets must be supernatural.


That looks very similar to my $19.95 Pangea's. What could possibly be in there to make it $3,100? Cryo treatment?
$3,100 will buy a lot of hardware and HP's that "will" make a difference in the sound.
Maybe it's the endorsement by Nicola Tesla.


----------



## roadcykler

gikigill said:


> They are made of unobtainium, cryo treated, heat treated, quad shielded, nanotube injected, graphene casted and have perfectly zero inductance, resistance and Impedance.
> 
> I can hear Jason Stoddards thoughts through the amplifier using these cables.




I've heard that the background is so "black", it's like a sensory deprivation tank and you can actually see the electrons transversing the wires.


----------



## bcowen

FLTWS said:


> That looks very similar to my $19.95 Pangea's. *What could possibly be in there to make it $3,100?* Cryo treatment?
> $3,100 will buy a lot of hardware and HP's that "will" make a difference in the sound.
> Maybe it's the endorsement by Nicola Tesla.


The person that takes it out of the Pangea box and puts it in the Quantum Science box commands a high salary??


----------



## paradoxper

If any of you have a line on Sophia Blue Glass, let me know and I'll pay you handsomely.


----------



## DTgill

paradoxper said:


> If any of you have a line on Sophia Blue Glass, let me know and I'll pay you handsomely.


Is this what you are looking for?


----------



## paradoxper

DTgill said:


> Is this what you are looking for?


Yes, although I've already spoken with Todd and stock won't be available for a time.


----------



## DTgill

paradoxper said:


> Yes, although I've already spoken with Todd and stock won't be available for a time.


Now I want to try one of those with my Lyr 3


----------



## roadcykler

DTgill said:


> Is this what you are looking for?




Those are some nice looking tubes and I bet with the glow emanating from them, they probably look even better, but after spending $90 some on a nice RCA and not hearing a difference from the stock tube, I'll pass.


----------



## Basil65

So I've had the Lyr 3 for almost 2 months now. What do I think of it? Simply: wow. I don't have alot of experience with headphones and headphone amps, but this amp is just miles ahead of anything else I have. I thought the Topping A90 was a good amp, but it just doesn't come close to the Lyr3. The A90 is lean and dry, where the Lyr 3 has more body and substance to it. It is just not comparable. It is effortless with my Arya V2s but is is especially good with my LCD-XC 2021. I received it with the Electro Harmonics tube but have also tested it with the TungSol. I think the TS brings a little more precision to the sound and the EH has a more rounded sound, but the difference is not major. I'm happy with either tube but have a little preference for the TS. I'm amazed at how much an improvement this amp has made to my listening experience. It is currently paired with my Musician Pegasus DAC, but I'm starting to wonder of the Bifrost 2 could be a better match. 

I really like this amp as it really got me hooked on headphone listening again and I'm wondering how much more $ one would need to spend to have a significant improvement in sound quality... Should I start putting $ aside for the next upgrade? 

Aaah!... I feel this hobby is gonna cost me more $ ... again!


----------



## jonathan c

Basil65 said:


> So I've had the Lyr 3 for almost 2 months now. What do I think of it? Simply: wow. I don't have alot of experience with headphones and headphone amps, but this amp is just miles ahead of anything else I have. I thought the Topping A90 was a good amp, but it just doesn't come close to the Lyr3. The A90 is lean and dry, where the Lyr 3 has more body and substance to it. It is just not comparable. It is effortless with my Arya V2s but is is especially good with my LCD-XC 2021. I received it with the Electro Harmonics tube but have also tested it with the TungSol. I think the TS brings a little more precision to the sound and the EH has a more rounded sound, but the difference is not major. I'm happy with either tube but have a little preference for the TS. I'm amazed at how much an improvement this amp has made to my listening experience. It is currently paired with my Musician Pegasus DAC, but I'm starting to wonder of the Bifrost 2 could be a better match.
> 
> I really like this amp as it really got me hooked on headphone listening again and I'm wondering how much more $ one would need to spend to have a significant improvement in sound quality... Should I start putting $ aside for the next upgrade?
> 
> Aaah!... I feel this hobby is gonna cost me more $ ... again!


Welcome to the Club. I’ll join you in waxing _lyr_ical about the amp…🤣😖. Since you are a Head-Fier, “the next upgrade” is a certainty. Where?…it could be in tubes (6SN7s)…it could be in cables to your Arya V2 and LCD-XC…it could be in the DAC. In any event, a meaningful improvement in sound quality from a headphone amplifier will involve $$ that is 3x->4x the price of Lyr 3.


----------



## Odin412

Basil65 said:


> I really like this amp as it really got me hooked on headphone listening again and I'm wondering how much more $ one would need to spend to have a significant improvement in sound quality... Should I start putting $ aside for the next upgrade?
> 
> Aaah!... I feel this hobby is gonna cost me more $ ... again!


Congratulations on your Lyr 3! It's a great amp. I would recommend playing around with a few different tubes first to see how you like the sound differences that tubes can provide. Vintage tubes are fun, and Psvane makes some new-production tubes that are very nice too.


----------



## tafens

Basil65 said:


> I'm amazed at how much an improvement this amp has made to my listening experience. It is currently paired with my Musician Pegasus DAC, but I'm starting to wonder of the Bifrost 2 could be a better match.


I have no experience with the Pegasus, but I dare say that the Bifrost2 matches up great with the Lyr3 



Basil65 said:


> Aaah!... I feel this hobby is gonna cost me more $ ... again!


It never ands (well it might, but probably not)
And, when you’re eventually done with the headphone system, there is the speaker system to do (and that’s usually even more expensive)


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> *It never ends well* (it might, but probably not)
> And, when you’re eventually done with the headphone system, there is the speaker system to do (and that’s usually even more expensive)


FTFY.


----------



## Melting735 (Feb 13, 2022)

I just quit from tube amps, but got quite a few 6sn7 tubes unsold in my collection. TBH, I was not very impressed by Lyr 3 with stock tube. For curiosity, I bought two Lyr 3 for side by side tube comparison. I have a Schiit Yggdrasil, so that I am able to fed these two units at the same time via rca cables.

I used to believe that tube rolling won't make much difference on hybrid amps, but I changed my mind. Different tubes do make significant difference on Lyr 3. I believe most ppl will be able to pass AB test.

I have tried the following (too bad I forgot to take notes, so all impressions are based on my memory), 

1. GE 7N7 tall bottle: closer to solid state sound, the high can be a little sharp but not harsh yet. 
2. Sylvania 6SN7W: I am a bit disappointed on this one. It is on the warm side, but its bass is a bit muddy. Overall, it sounds quite similar to the stock tube to me. Not worth the expensive price IMO.
3. Tungsol Black Glass VT-231 round plate: this is my default tube for Lyr 3 now. Very balanced sound, good on almost anything. It's not bass heavy but very satisfying
4. Tungsol Black Glass VT-231 oval plate: very similar to the above
5. Tungsol VT-99 Black Glass round plate: I really like this one on Lyr 3. Very deep soundstage, lussy, bass is a bit heavier than Tungsol BG VT231.
6. Mullard CV1988: very sweet mid and high, airy, but bass light
7. Schiit LIIST: it indeed sounds more like solid state. Faster and more accurate.
8. Raytheon VT-231: transparent, airy, good soundstage
9. RCA VT-99 Grey Glass: Warm, good all around
10. NU VT-231 Black Glass: this is one of my favorites on Lyr 3, similar to TS BG VT231, but better clarity and low end, very engaging.

After replacing the stock tube with something matching my taste, Lyr 3 is now very enjoyable. It loses to my Niimbus 5 Pro on almost anything, but it is only at 1/12 of the cost. Plus it sounds different enough with different tubes, I decide to keep one for myself.


----------



## bcowen

Melting735 said:


> I just quit from tube amps, but got quite a few 6sn7 tubes unsold in my collection. TBH, I was not very impressed by Lyr 3 with stock tube. For curiosity, I bought two Lyr 3 for side by side tube comparison. I have a Schiit Yggdrasil, so that I am able to fed these two units at the same time via rca cables.
> 
> I used to believe that tube rolling won't make much difference on hybrid amps, but I changed my mind. Different tubes do make significant difference on Lyr 3. I believe most ppl will be able to pass AB test.
> 
> ...


Is #10 supposed to be NU (National Union)?


----------



## Melting735

bcowen said:


> Is #10 supposed to be NU (National Union)?


Correct. Sorry for my typo


----------



## cgb3

Basil65 said:


> So I've had the Lyr 3 for almost 2 months now. What do I think of it? Simply: wow. I don't have alot of experience with headphones and headphone amps, but this amp is just miles ahead of anything else I have. I thought the Topping A90 was a good amp, but it just doesn't come close to the Lyr3. The A90 is lean and dry, where the Lyr 3 has more body and substance to it. It is just not comparable. It is effortless with my Arya V2s but is is especially good with my LCD-XC 2021. I received it with the Electro Harmonics tube but have also tested it with the TungSol. I think the TS brings a little more precision to the sound and the EH has a more rounded sound, but the difference is not major. I'm happy with either tube but have a little preference for the TS. I'm amazed at how much an improvement this amp has made to my listening experience. It is currently paired with my Musician Pegasus DAC, but I'm starting to wonder of the Bifrost 2 could be a better match.
> 
> I really like this amp as it really got me hooked on headphone listening again and I'm wondering how much more $ one would need to spend to have a significant improvement in sound quality... Should I start putting $ aside for the next upgrade?
> 
> Aaah!... I feel this hobby is gonna cost me more $ ... again!


Love the Lyr3... as a preamp for my Jot 2.

Roll tubes to one's content for various signatures. One tube only (to rule them all).

Nice synergy for me.


----------



## asiegel

Hi everyone, has anyone done a comparison of the various Psvane tubes on Lyr3 - specifically the 6SN7-UK, 6SN7-SE, and CV181-T MKII? I've searched through the various threads and couldn't find anything, but the amount of content is huge so it's entirely possible I missed something... I'm interested in sonic differences as well as any differences in burn-in time (the Psvanes clearly have a reputation for long burn-in times...)

I just got a new Lyr3 and I'm eager to try out various tubes, and I'd like to include *one* Psvane tube in the selection (must resist the urge to acquire more than one...)

Thanks!
Aaron


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 14, 2022)

You can't go wrong with any of the 3, and I have all 3 purchased new. My preference overall is for the Treasure Globe (SE?)





I like it for any of my amps that take 6SN7 type.


----------



## DTgill

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, has anyone done a comparison of the various Psvane tubes on Lyr3 - specifically the 6SN7-UK, 6SN7-SE, and CV181-T MKII? I've searched through the various threads and couldn't find anything, but the amount of content is huge so it's entirely possible I missed something... I'm interested in sonic differences as well as any differences in burn-in time (the Psvanes clearly have a reputation for long burn-in times...)
> 
> I just got a new Lyr3 and I'm eager to try out various tubes, and I'd like to include *one* Psvane tube in the selection (must resist the urge to acquire more than one...)
> 
> ...


I can forsee a large hole in your wallet, as you go down the rabbit hole of tubiness....


----------



## Odin412

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, has anyone done a comparison of the various Psvane tubes on Lyr3 - specifically the 6SN7-UK, 6SN7-SE, and CV181-T MKII? I've searched through the various threads and couldn't find anything, but the amount of content is huge so it's entirely possible I missed something... I'm interested in sonic differences as well as any differences in burn-in time (the Psvanes clearly have a reputation for long burn-in times...)
> 
> I just got a new Lyr3 and I'm eager to try out various tubes, and I'd like to include *one* Psvane tube in the selection (must resist the urge to acquire more than one...)
> 
> ...


Nah - buy them all!   My favorites are the 6SN7-SE ('tennis ball') and the CV181-T MKII (grey glass). I'm using the tennis ball tube now.


----------



## Odin412

FLTWS said:


> You can't go wrong with any of the 3, and I have all 3 purchased new. My preference overall is for the Treasure Globe (SE?)


Agree - that is a lovely tube that also happens to look really cool.


----------



## asiegel

Odin412 said:


> Agree - that is a lovely tube that also happens to look really cool.


Thanks everyone! Sounds like it's hard to go wrong with the SE. How long did it take yours to burn in?

And I can see how tube rolling can become a bottomless money sink  I have a Tung Sol (new production) and a Westinghouse GTB tall D getter on the way. I'm sure that will not be the end of things...

Aaron


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 14, 2022)

asiegel said:


> ... How long did it take yours to burn in?
> Aaron


There's one for sure way to determine that. Buy a pair. Use one only for say 100 hours of listening/playing time. Then pop in the un-burned one at 100 hours and 1 minute and give it a listen. You will then know what if any difference is detectable to your ears. Some people hear significant differences, some hear only subtle differences and only sometimes, some hear no differences. I fall into the middle category. Of course the tubes must be new manufacture, not used.

The Westinghouse GTB tall D getter-is another great tube.


----------



## bcowen

asiegel said:


> Thanks everyone! Sounds like it's hard to go wrong with the SE. How long did it take yours to burn in?
> 
> And I can see how tube rolling can become a bottomless money sink  I have a Tung Sol (new production) and a Westinghouse GTB tall D getter on the way.* I'm sure that will not be the end of things...*
> 
> Aaron


You are wise and perceptive.    

I only have the CV-181T Mk II so can't help with comparisons, but if you get the tennis ball version you'll probably want to get a socket saver to make sure the tube's glass clears the Lyr 3's top cover.  The CV181T fits without one, but just barely.


----------



## asiegel

bcowen said:


> You are wise and perceptive.
> 
> I only have the CV-181T Mk II so can't help with comparisons, but if you get the tennis ball version you'll probably want to get a socket saver to make sure the tube's glass clears the Lyr 3's top cover.  The CV181T fits without one, but just barely.


I already ordered a socket saver - one of these:
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...on-base-not-made-in-china-everybody-needs-one

I'll wait for it to arrive before trying out any nonstandard shaped tubes...


----------



## bcowen

asiegel said:


> I already ordered a socket saver - one of these:
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/plug-play-novib-octal-nos-ge-usa-omron-japan-socket-saver©-with-vibration-reduction-base-not-made-in-china-everybody-needs-one
> 
> I'll wait for it to arrive before trying out any nonstandard shaped tubes...


Perfect!  You got the best one out there.


----------



## asiegel

bcowen said:


> Perfect!  You got the best one out there.


Great! ... and how often in hi-fi audio can one get the best of something for $38? Even if it's just a socket saver, that feels pretty satisfying


----------



## JamminVMI

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, has anyone done a comparison of the various Psvane tubes on Lyr3 - specifically the 6SN7-UK, 6SN7-SE, and CV181-T MKII? I've searched through the various threads and couldn't find anything, but the amount of content is huge so it's entirely possible I missed something... I'm interested in sonic differences as well as any differences in burn-in time (the Psvanes clearly have a reputation for long burn-in times...)
> 
> I just got a new Lyr3 and I'm eager to try out various tubes, and I'd like to include *one* Psvane tube in the selection (must resist the urge to acquire more than one...)
> 
> ...


Given Lyr's a tube hybrid, there isn't a HUGE difference to be heard, but there certainly is some. An acquaintance on this forum has difficulty hearing differences between tubes using Lyr, and I respect his opinion - and his ear. My ears are as old as I am (born in the 60s), and therefore suspect by definition, but...  I can hear differences between tubes on Lyr, but best with my DCA Aeon RT Closed and less so with my open cans. Right now, there's a -SE (I call it the tennis ball - 'treasure globe' sounds like a marketing guy got ahold of a tennis ball and renamed it) in Lyr, and I like it a lot. Part of me suspects that it's the same guts as the -UK tube, with a different envelope, but it's impossible to see. Those two sound virtually alike to me, there's a -UK in Saga at the moment. 

Haven't tried the CV181-T MkII as yet, but I will. 

As far as break-in goes, my examples sounded very good out of the box, but are still changing slightly after about 60 hours. Note that the -SE can be really tight (like the envelope touches the top of the Lyr's chassis), so a socket saver is your friend here. I do have a Baldwin-labeled Sylvania NOS that I like a lot as well, and there's nothing wrong with the current production Tung-Sol I have either...


----------



## FLTWS

JamminVMI said:


> Given Lyr's a tube hybrid, there isn't a HUGE difference to be heard, but there certainly is some. An acquaintance on this forum has difficulty hearing differences between tubes using Lyr, and I respect his opinion - and his ear. My ears are as old as I am (born in the 60s), and therefore suspect by definition, but...  I can hear differences between tubes on Lyr, but best with my DCA Aeon RT Closed and less so with my open cans. Right now, there's a -SE (I call it the tennis ball - 'treasure globe' sounds like a marketing guy got ahold of a tennis ball and renamed it) in Lyr, and I like it a lot. Part of me suspects that it's the same guts as the -UK tube, with a different envelope, but it's impossible to see. Those two sound virtually alike to me, there's a -UK in Saga at the moment.
> 
> Haven't tried the CV181-T MkII as yet, but I will.
> 
> As far as break-in goes, my examples sounded very good out of the box, but are still changing slightly after about 60 hours. Note that the -SE can be really tight (like the envelope touches the top of the Lyr's chassis), so a socket saver is your friend here. I do have a Baldwin-labeled Sylvania NOS that I like a lot as well, and there's nothing wrong with the current production Tung-Sol I have either...


I've got a matched pair of Baldwins, they were originally made for the Baldwin Organ company for use in their consumer range of organs. Bought them several years ago at the price of $20.00 each plus matching. If I remember correctly they were labeled Baldwin but the suppliers they used were Sylvania and Westinghouse.


----------



## JamminVMI

FLTWS said:


> I've got a matched pair of Baldwins, they were originally made for the Baldwin Organ company for use in their consumer range of organs. Bought them several years ago at the price of $20.00 each plus matching. If I remember correctly they were labeled Baldwin but the suppliers they used were Sylvania and Westinghouse.


I’ve heard the same. And that, since they were intended for organs, the most musical (best?) of the batch. Don’t know how much of that is truth or fiction, but my two (about the same price at the same time as yours), sound great!


----------



## MacMan31

FLTWS said:


> You can't go wrong with any of the 3, and I have all 3 purchased new. My preference overall is for the Treasure Globe (SE?)
> 
> 
> I like it for any of my amps that take 6SN7 type.



Could you please repost a much bigger and clear photo? 

Also I now have a Lyr 3 but I'm still hesitant to sell my Valhalla 2. Is that a bad thing? I certainly don't need both amps. Plus the tubes cannot be swapped into the other amp.


----------



## MacMan31 (Feb 27, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Feature attractions coming soon to a Lyr ‘nyr’ me…



Where can I get this dual tube adapter? Is there other ones which would allow for other types of dual tubes? Also your Lyr 3 has a black volume knob with a white line indicator. Where can I get one of those?


----------



## FLTWS

MacMan31 said:


> Could you please repost a much bigger and clear photo?
> 
> Also I now have a Lyr 3 but I'm still hesitant to sell my Valhalla 2. Is that a bad thing? I certainly don't need both amps. Plus the tubes cannot be swapped into the other amp.


It was taken from Grant Fidelity's website, this is as good as I can get it


----------



## FLTWS

Here's a few shots of one of my Treasure Globes when I first bought them.


----------



## MacMan31

Okay thank you. I thought it was your photo. Those look like pretty sweet tubes. I'm just giving my Tung-Sol tube a work out now. I have some more tubes on the way as part of a Schiit Saga+ purchase. They use the same tubes so I can swap between them.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 27, 2022)

This might interest you, Grant Fidelity is in Canada.

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product-category/shop_by_tube_model/6sn7_cv181/

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/


----------



## MacMan31

FLTWS said:


> This might interest you, Grant Fidelity is in Canada.
> 
> https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product-category/shop_by_tube_model/6sn7_cv181/
> 
> https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/



Thanks for the links. I switched to Canadian dollar on the site and the "treasure globe" is $302 plus any shipping and tax. For that price it better be "end game" worthy.


----------



## bcowen

MacMan31 said:


> Where can I get this dual tube adapter? Is there other ones which would allow for other types of dual tubes? Also your Lyr 3 has a black volume knob with a white line indicator. Where can I get one of those?


The China-made dual tube adapters can be bought on Ebay for a number of different top tube configurations.  Or you can get them from fellow HeadFi'er @Deyan that are much better quality, and he can (likely) make you whatever configuration you want.  Or you can make them yourself.

China-made adapter for 7A4's:




@Deyan made adapter for L63's:




One I made myself for 6C4's:


----------



## jonathan c

I have the Chinese 6J5+6J5 -> 6SN7 adapter and have used it with Ken-Rad VT-94s on the Schiit Lyr 3. It works…sounds great…but the adapter seems flimsy. I am awaiting this adapter by @Deyan before full-scale 6C5 / 6J5 / VT-94 use in the Lyr 3.


----------



## MacMan31

Well I don't have or use PayPal (or similar services) so getting one from Deyan would not be possible.


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Well I don't have or use PayPal (or similar services) so getting one from Deyan would not be possible.


Setting up PayPal is not difficult. It _is _secure.


----------



## cgb3

JamminVMI said:


> Given Lyr's a tube hybrid, there isn't a HUGE difference to be heard, but there certainly is some. An acquaintance on this forum has difficulty hearing differences between tubes using Lyr, and I respect his opinion - and his ear. My ears are as old as I am (born in the 60s), and therefore suspect by definition, but...  I can hear differences between tubes on Lyr, but best with my DCA Aeon RT Closed and less so with my open cans. Right now, there's a -SE (I call it the tennis ball - 'treasure globe' sounds like a marketing guy got ahold of a tennis ball and renamed it) in Lyr, and I like it a lot. Part of me suspects that it's the same guts as the -UK tube, with a different envelope, but it's impossible to see. Those two sound virtually alike to me, there's a -UK in Saga at the moment.
> 
> Haven't tried the CV181-T MkII as yet, but I will.
> 
> As far as break-in goes, my examples sounded very good out of the box, but are still changing slightly after about 60 hours. Note that the -SE can be really tight (like the envelope touches the top of the Lyr's chassis), so a socket saver is your friend here. I do have a Baldwin-labeled Sylvania NOS that I like a lot as well, and there's nothing wrong with the current production Tung-Sol I have either...


I've had the Lyr3 for several years, and many tubes (28).

I've used the Lyr3 as a pre-amp to my Schiit Jotunheim 2 for the past ~20 months, with various tubes.

I enjoy various sounds with my many tubes. It's not a "secret sauce", friends and guests discern differences.

Can't discern yourself? Good (I guess). Allows one to buy cheaper gear.


----------



## tafens

MacMan31 said:


> Also I now have a Lyr 3 but I'm still hesitant to sell my Valhalla 2. Is that a bad thing? I certainly don't need both amps. Plus the tubes cannot be swapped into the other amp.


They are quite different amps despite both are using tubes, the Valhalla being all-tube and the Lyr3 a hybrid tube-solid state. I’d say keep both if you can. Also, The 6N1P’s (the two short ones in the. Valhalla) are directly replaceable with 6DJ8, 6922 etc, all of which are also electrically compatible with 6SN7, so they will be usable with an adapter in they Lyr3 and the other way around


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Also your Lyr 3 has a black volume knob with a white line indicator. Where can I get one of those?


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> Setting up PayPal is not difficult. It _is _secure.



Well to be honest I did sign up for PayPal many years ago. But a few years ago I started getting emails from them asking for additional info. Things like my drivers license or paystub. They want too much information and I don't think that is appropriate. 

Also thanks for the info on the volume knobs. Although I have never bought from eBay primarily because of PayPal. 



tafens said:


> They are quite different amps despite both are using tubes, the Valhalla being all-tube and the Lyr3 a hybrid tube-solid state. I’d say keep both if you can. Also, The 6N1P’s (the two short ones in the. Valhalla) are directly replaceable with 6DJ8, 6922 etc, all of which are also electrically compatible with 6SN7, so they will be usable with an adapter in they Lyr3 and the other way around



I think I recall someone saying that using the 6SN7 tubes in the Valhalla would not be the best idea. I think it was something to do with different voltages but I can't remember.


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 28, 2022)

I have never been asked by PayPal for that data…I bet that the subsequent emails that you were getting were from ‘scammers’ posing as PayPal…


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> I have never been asked by PayPal for that data…I bet that the subsequent emails that you were getting were from ‘scammers’ posing as PayPal…



I guess that is possible. But I think even when I was on the PayPal site in my account I was reminded to provide this kind of information. It's been quite a long time since I signed into my account though. In any case I don't want to derail this thread. I expecting about ten more tubes in the next week or two as I bought a Schiit Saga Plus with extra tubes. I can use those tubes in the Lyr 3 as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Is the cover of the Lyr 3 able to be slid off back-to-front? The cover does not appear to be attached by screws.


----------



## cgb3

FLTWS said:


> Here's a few shots of one of my Treasure Globes when I first bought them.


They've changed.

Mine is graphite blacked, with a white base.


jonathan c said:


> Is the cover of the Lyr 3 able to be slid off back-to-front? The cover does not appear to be attached by screws.


I removed the top plate from my Lyr 3, before sending it back to the factory.

Remove the volume knob (by loosening the hex screw in the knob). Remove any valves.

I used a plastic bike tire tool (used to remove tires from rims) to pry the top cover forward.


----------



## jonathan c

SR Purple fuse in place…🤗…🎼…


----------



## jonathan c

•  Quite the difference with the SR Purple in Lyr 3! Simply stated: lower noise floor, definitely greater dynamic range, micro details are more audible with texture, ‘clearer’ space between instruments & voices.
•  My perceived sound source allocation has changed. Pre-SRP, 60% SS + 40% VT; post-SRP, 35% SS + 65% VT. Tube ‘rolling’ has a much greater impact with the SRP rather than the stock fuse installed. That, besides great sound, makes my day!


----------



## JamminVMI

jonathan c said:


> Is the cover of the Lyr 3 able to be slid off back-to-front? The cover does not appear to be attached by screws.


Yes. It’s a pressure-fit thing. Studs on the lid fit slots in the chassis. She can be stubborn…


----------



## FLTWS

cgb3 said:


> They've changed.
> 
> Mine is graphite blacked, with a white base.


Purchased mine back in 2018.


----------



## ssmith3046

jonathan c said:


> I have never been asked by PayPal for that data…I bet that the subsequent emails that you were getting were from ‘scammers’ posing as PayPal…


There are definitely scammers posing as PayPal.  I called a 1-800 number that I googled for a PayPal number and the guy I talked to sounded legit but then he told me my account had been hacked and the questions he started asking me sounded suspicious. I told he was phony and hung up.


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> •  Quite the difference with the SR Purple in Lyr 3! Simply stated: lower noise floor, definitely greater dynamic range, micro details are more audible with texture, ‘clearer’ space between instruments & voices.
> •  My perceived sound source allocation has changed. Pre-SRP, 60% SS + 40% VT; post-SRP, 35% SS + 65% VT. Tube ‘rolling’ has a much greater impact with the SRP rather than the stock fuse installed. That, besides great sound, makes my day!



Is it easy to take the cover off to change the fuse? Where would I get such a fuse?


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> Is it easy to take the cover off to change the fuse? Where would I get such a fuse?


It is a bit of work. Read some of the posts before this one. I purchased the SR Purple fuses (and other items) from VH Audio which is located in North Prairie, Wisconsin. Check their website.


----------



## adeadcrab

jonathan c said:


> It is a bit of work. Read some of the posts before this one. I purchased the SR Purple fuses (and other items) from VH Audio which is located in North Prairie, Wisconsin. Check their website.


How would you compare MZ3 and stock Lyr 3?


----------



## MacMan31

jonathan c said:


> It is a bit of work. Read some of the posts before this one. I purchased the SR Purple fuses (and other items) from VH Audio which is located in North Prairie, Wisconsin. Check their website.



These ones here? https://www.vhaudio.com/fuses.html 

Which options for size, rating, and amperage value did you select?


----------



## jonathan c

MacMan31 said:


> These ones here? https://www.vhaudio.com/fuses.html
> 
> Which options for size, rating, and amperage value did you select?


For the Lyr 3, use the 5x20mm size, T(imed) 1A rating.


----------



## jonathan c

@Deyan ’s craftsmanship scores again! The 2 x 6J5 => 6SN7 adapter is an _oeuvre du son. _The Lyr 3 is reaching sonic peaks not expected by me. The Ken-Rad 6J5 pair has a broader, deeper soundstage with ‘purer’ air between instruments & voices than does the single Ken-Rad VT-231. 🎼 🥲 👏


----------



## aldinho878

how is the multibit dac in the lyr 3 multibit compared to something like a mojo/Hugo/hugo2 or any of the IFi dac/amps? Do you feel that that the multibit dac limits the Lyr 3 performance or is it a solid dac overall?


----------



## tafens

aldinho878 said:


> how is the multibit dac in the lyr 3 multibit compared to something like a mojo/Hugo/hugo2 or any of the IFi dac/amps? Do you feel that that the multibit dac limits the Lyr 3 performance or is it a solid dac overall?


I don’t know about the DACs you mention, but the Bifrost2 improves on the multibit card considerably, however, it is also considerably more expensive. That doesn’t mean that the card isn’t a solid dac for what it is and what it costs, of course.


----------



## asiegel

Hi everyone, just a warning to anyone considering purchasing a Psvane 6SN7-SE for the Lyr3. I acquired one recently and immediately noticed an extremely loud hum, even at only 1/2 volume - to the point where the amp was unlistenable. I have not had this issue with any of my half dozen other NOS and new production tubes.

I contacted Vivatubes and they informed me that "Psvane 6SN7-SE tubes do not play nice with Schiit gear (any model, it seems)" and "we never recommend them" to Schiit owners. Thankfully, Vivatubes immediately processed an RMA and sent me a return label.

I am extremely disappointed in Psvane. If they are going to manufacture tubes that are fundamentally incompatible with one of the most popular hybrid amps on the market, then they need to make that very clear in their product descriptions (i.e. prominently publish a list of compatible gear). I will be avoiding Psvane products in the future.

But, I am very impressed with the service from Vivatubes. They responded promptly with a painless return process, and I can highly recommend them.


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, just a warning to anyone considering purchasing a Psvane 6SN7-SE for the Lyr3. I acquired one recently and immediately noticed an extremely loud hum, even at only 1/2 volume - to the point where the amp was unlistenable. I have not had this issue with any of my half dozen other NOS and new production tubes.
> 
> I contacted Vivatubes and they informed me that "Psvane 6SN7-SE tubes do not play nice with Schiit gear (any model, it seems)" and "we never recommend them" to Schiit owners. Thankfully, Vivatubes immediately processed an RMA and sent me a return label.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about your experience!  I also ordered the Psvane 6SN7-SE for my Lyr 3 from VivaTubes and I have not had any issues with it.  

I also have the Psvane CV181-T (black glass) and it does great in my Lyr 3 also.


----------



## asiegel

dilbertprogrammer said:


> Sorry to hear about your experience!  I also ordered the Psvane 6SN7-SE for my Lyr 3 from VivaTubes and I have not had any issues with it.
> 
> I also have the Psvane CV181-T (black glass) and it does great in my Lyr 3 also.


Interesting. When did you order it? I've heard from others who had ok experiences with Psvane tubes as well, and I'm wondering if something's changed recently... maybe older Psvane tubes are fine, but something is up with their more recent production?


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

asiegel said:


> Interesting. When did you order it? I've heard from others who had ok experiences with Psvane tubes as well, and I'm wondering if something's changed recently... maybe older Psvane tubes are fine, but something is up with their more recent production?



My "New Gain Tested Psvane 6SN7-SE Tennis Ball Vacuum Tube" from Viva Tubes was ordered on 01/30/22.  It shipped on 01/31/22 and arrived 02/04/22.


----------



## JS27

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, just a warning to anyone considering purchasing a Psvane 6SN7-SE for the Lyr3. I acquired one recently and immediately noticed an extremely loud hum, even at only 1/2 volume - to the point where the amp was unlistenable. I have not had this issue with any of my half dozen other NOS and new production tubes.
> 
> I contacted Vivatubes and they informed me that "Psvane 6SN7-SE tubes do not play nice with Schiit gear (any model, it seems)" and "we never recommend them" to Schiit owners. Thankfully, Vivatubes immediately processed an RMA and sent me a return label.
> 
> ...




 The Psvane tennis ball/SE (especially the SE) are my favorite tubes by far for the Lyr 3.  I have many "big rep" NOS 6SN7's....and to me the Lyr 3 shines with new make.  I think the stock JJ's sounded pretty darn good in the amp frankly.  That said.....Psvane has been a Q&A hit or miss, I don't think it's anything to do with Schitt.  I've used the same vendor/returned a bunch of Psvane's that were noisy/had a noticeable hum.  Some had funky/crooked internals.  Not said to dump on said vendor.....but I know others do the same and those swapped/returned tubes probably go right back inventory.


----------



## Melting735

asiegel said:


> I am extremely disappointed in Psvane. If they are going to manufacture tubes that are fundamentally incompatible with one of the most popular hybrid amps on the market, then they need to make that very clear in their product descriptions (i.e. prominently publish a list of compatible gear). I will be avoiding Psvane products in the future.


It's very common that some type of tubes don't go well on some amps. I had many tubes (both driver and power tubes) in the past having hum/noise on certain amps but disappeared like magic on others. This is the pain everyone has to experience once get into tube world. 

Btw, I had positive experience in psvane tubes in terms of build quality and SQ


----------



## JamminVMI

asiegel said:


> Hi everyone, just a warning to anyone considering purchasing a Psvane 6SN7-SE for the Lyr3. I acquired one recently and immediately noticed an extremely loud hum, even at only 1/2 volume - to the point where the amp was unlistenable. I have not had this issue with any of my half dozen other NOS and new production tubes.
> 
> I contacted Vivatubes and they informed me that "Psvane 6SN7-SE tubes do not play nice with Schiit gear (any model, it seems)" and "we never recommend them" to Schiit owners. Thankfully, Vivatubes immediately processed an RMA and sent me a return label.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I’ve got an SE in Lyr right now, and have had since May last year. No issues, sounds great. There was another member here who had isses with the SE a few months ago. Don’t know if it’s just recent production or what…


----------



## TrumpOrMonkey (Jun 1, 2022)

How do you guys find the Schiit Lyr 3 with IEMs and sensitive headphones? I currently have a Jotunheim 2 and I can hear an audible noise floor with my IEMs and more sensitive headphones through the SE out while using the balanced input (balanced out is noiseless though). I'm thinking of either getting the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 primarily for daily single ended duty with these, as well as for the added benefit of having something complementary in sound while I use my Jotunheim 2 in balanced for everything else. I've been meaning to pull the trigger on either one but ultimately the noise floor difference will determine it for me.

Any input is greatly appreciated !


----------



## davidfrance

TrumpOrMonkey said:


> How do you guys find the Schiit Lyr 3 with IEMs and sensitive headphones? I currently have a Jotunheim 2 and I can hear an audible noise floor with my IEMs and more sensitive headphones through the SE out while using the balanced input (balanced out is noiseless though). I'm thinking of either getting the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 primarily for daily single ended duty with these, as well as for the added benefit of having something complementary in sound while I use my Jotunheim 2 in balanced for everything else. I've been meaning to pull the trigger on either one but ultimately the noise floor difference will determine it for me.
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated !


I don't know, but I would be surprised if either the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 have a lower "noise floor" than the Jotunheim 2. In fact, I own both a Asgard 3 and a Lyr 3, and I really like them both, but this would be surprising, if either of them have a lower "noise floor". That they sound a bit different than the Jotunheim 2... yes, that, but not a lower noise floor. That is my guess.


----------



## JamminVMI

TrumpOrMonkey said:


> How do you guys find the Schiit Lyr 3 with IEMs and sensitive headphones? I currently have a Jotunheim 2 and I can hear an audible noise floor with my IEMs and more sensitive headphones through the SE out while using the balanced input (balanced out is noiseless though). I'm thinking of either getting the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 primarily for daily single ended duty with these, as well as for the added benefit of having something complementary in sound while I use my Jotunheim 2 in balanced for everything else. I've been meaning to pull the trigger on either one but ultimately the noise floor difference will determine it for me.
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated !


Please hold… I’ll give my Moondrop Kxxx a kick with Lyr3, Asgard 3 and Jotunheim 2 later this evening and will advise. Might also drag out the UE Triple.fi 10s to check noise floor, but we shall see with the Moondrops first.


----------



## jonathan c

Posted on a different thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grado-fan-club.530965/post-16989643


----------



## TrumpOrMonkey

davidfrance said:


> I don't know, but I would be surprised if either the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 have a lower "noise floor" than the Jotunheim 2. In fact, I own both a Asgard 3 and a Lyr 3, and I really like them both, but this would be surprising, if either of them have a lower "noise floor". That they sound a bit different than the Jotunheim 2... yes, that, but not a lower noise floor. That is my guess.


I'm not the only person who has experienced this as Currawong had written about this in his written review of the Jotunheim 2, mentioning that out of SE - its not suitable for sensitive IEMs (such as the CA Ara he tested with) as he noticed both a significant hiss and slightly noticeable hum component (same experience as me). However for me, I find this extends to even sensitive headphones like the AD2000 and HD598SE. I can't hear any noise through XLR out with the headphones I have a balanced cable for, but SE output is significantly noisier. I'm feeding the Jotunheim with Modius through its balanced outputs, but the noise floor is the same even when using unbalanced. For comparison I also have the Cavalli Tube Hybrid (an SE tube hybrid amplifier) which to my ears has a significantly (but still slightly audible) lower noise floor than the Jotunheim 2 through SE. I've also tried the iFi Zen DAC and I can't hear any noise with that. Singxer SA-1 also has no noticeable noise from both SE and Balanced but that's to be expected from a top measuring amp, but I'd like to move back to Schiit as I prefer the sound of their amplifiers.

By all means the Jotunheim 2 is an excellent amplifier, and my favourite when I use the balanced outputs. But I believe because the Jotunheim 2 is a balanced differential amplifier, and optimised for balanced operation, I think they are only using part of the differential amplifier circuit to facilitate the SE output which has noise constraints (balanced differential operation allows cancelling noise components), while Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 are designed and optimised for SE operation. That's my rationale behind believing they would possibly have a better noise floor than the Jotunheim 2 in SE.



JamminVMI said:


> Please hold… I’ll give my Moondrop Kxxx a kick with Lyr3, Asgard 3 and Jotunheim 2 later this evening and will advise. Might also drag out the UE Triple.fi 10s to check noise floor, but we shall see with the Moondrops first.



Will do, thanks! I'm keen to hear your findings


----------



## JamminVMI

TrumpOrMonkey said:


> I'm not the only person who has experienced this as Currawong had written about this in his written review of the Jotunheim 2, mentioning that out of SE - its not suitable for sensitive IEMs (such as the CA Ara he tested with) as he noticed both a significant hiss and slightly noticeable hum component (same experience as me). However for me, I find this extends to even sensitive headphones like the AD2000 and HD598SE. I can't hear any noise through XLR out with the headphones I have a balanced cable for, but SE output is significantly noisier. I'm feeding the Jotunheim with Modius through its balanced outputs, but the noise floor is the same even when using unbalanced. For comparison I also have the Cavalli Tube Hybrid (an SE tube hybrid amplifier) which to my ears has a significantly (but still slightly audible) lower noise floor than the Jotunheim 2 through SE. I've also tried the iFi Zen DAC and I can't hear any noise with that. Singxer SA-1 also has no noticeable noise from both SE and Balanced but that's to be expected from a top measuring amp, but I'd like to move back to Schiit as I prefer the sound of their amplifiers.
> 
> By all means the Jotunheim 2 is an excellent amplifier, and my favourite when I use the balanced outputs. But I believe because the Jotunheim 2 is a balanced differential amplifier, and optimised for balanced operation, I think they are only using part of the differential amplifier circuit to facilitate the SE output which has noise constraints (balanced differential operation allows cancelling noise components), while Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 are designed and optimised for SE operation. That's my rationale behind believing they would possibly have a better noise floor than the Jotunheim 2 in SE.
> 
> ...


OK... WRT Noise floor. Tested both with nothing playing first, and then listened between tracks on a couple albums. With that said...

Asgard 3 - I was unable to hear anything on LO gain out of the amp and a very very slight hiss on near max volume in HI gain. 

Jot2 (tested single ended only) - heard very slight hum throughout, but no hiss detectable to me. Occurs both on HI and LO gain. 

Lyr3 - Got very slight hum starting at 12:00 on the knob indicator in HI gain only (Linlai 6SN7 HiFi). Switched tubes to Psvane 6SN7-SE (tennis ball envelope), and that changed. Zero noise until 2:00 on the knob, and that I had to hold my breath to hear).   Note: Knob only goes to 4:00

If you are interested, I have one of the original LISST, and I'm personally interested to see if all the noise goes away with a solid state tube... I'm gonna listen to that this evening...

I used both Moondrop Kxxx and the UEs, same result. But my ears recently turned 62, so gosh only knows what that means in terms of my own noise floor.  My system is Squeezebox server to Bifrost 2, then Lokius (bypassed for this test), Saga, and then into either Jot2 or Lyr3. For Asgard, squeezebox to Bifrost 4490 OG, Loki mini + to Asgard 3.


----------



## Jigetz

Hi All,

I am looking at potentially using my incoming Lyr 3 as a preamp to my Vidar on my desktop.

Has anyone on this thread done this? Any thoughts on the sound signature that it presents? 

I know using a headphone amp as a preamp isn't ideal for speakers but my Rag 2 just doesn't have enough power for my mini-monitors and keeps going into protect mode when listening at loud volumes so I have to change it up and to to back to Vidar.

I am also considering using a Freya S for this duty as then I could use the balanced from my phono pre and us the SE outs on the Freya to my Vidar and then Lyr. I am a little concerned about volume leveling and desk space though with this setup. 

My gear will be BF2, Lyr 3, Phono Pre (SE and Bal out options), I have a sys lying around too. Here is what I am considering:

Option 1:
BF2 and Phono to sys to Lyr 3 to Vidar

Option 2:
BF2 and Phono Pre Balanced to Freya S. Freya S SE Outs to Lyr and To Vidar.

Option 3:
Take one of the RCA cards from Rag 2 and put it into Lyr 3. So then Phono and BF2 SE to Lyr 3 then Pre out to Vidar. This is probably the cleanest of the options.

Any insights or advice are most appreciated.


----------



## tafens

Jigetz said:


> I am looking at potentially using my incoming Lyr 3 as a preamp to my Vidar on my desktop.
> 
> Has anyone on this thread done this? Any thoughts on the sound signature that it presents?


Not exactly that, but I have a Modi Multibit going to a Vali2+ into an Aegir to speakers.
Sounds great, but currently limited by the old speakers I use
.
That said about my experience about such things, I think your option 3 seems best if you can coerce the card into the Lyr3. Of what I heard it is possible and it works but it’s a really tight fit. Otherwise I’d say option 1 because it’s simpler than option 2..



Jigetz said:


> I know using a headphone amp as a preamp isn't ideal for speakers but my Rag 2 just doesn't have enough power for my mini-monitors and keeps going into protect mode when listening at loud volumes so I have to change it up and to to back to Vidar.


What would be the problem with using a headphone amp as a preamp? As long as it has preamp outs and those are used to connect to the power amp I mean.


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## Ripper2860

Does Rag 2 not have a pre-out?


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## Jigetz

It does, but it's a lot on a desk with a Vidar.


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## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> Not exactly that, but I have a Modi Multibit going to a Vali2+ into an Aegir to speakers.
> Sounds great, but currently limited by the old speakers I use
> .
> That said about my experience about such things, I think your option 3 seems best if you can coerce the card into the Lyr3. Of what I heard it is possible and it works but it’s a really tight fit. Otherwise I’d say option 1 because it’s simpler than option 2..
> ...


Adding the card into Lyr3 is not difficult, just fiddly. You can also order one from Schiit via an email. I have the extra input card in all headphone amps that will take them. Nice option to have!


----------



## Jigetz

JamminVMI said:


> Adding the card into Lyr3 is not difficult, just fiddly. You can also order one from Schiit via an email. I have the extra input card in all headphone amps that will take them. Nice option to have!


I’m going to crack it open tonight or tomorrow. Just listened to it via the sys and sounds pretty good but I like to idea of a cleaner setup. 

Any words of wisdom as I pop this sucker open?


----------



## JamminVMI

Jigetz said:


> I’m going to crack it open tonight or tomorrow. Just listened to it via the sys and sounds pretty good but I like to idea of a cleaner setup.
> 
> Any words of wisdom as I pop this sucker open?


Lyr hasthe screwless case, so it‘s just removing the knob and nut and iirc, push the case off forward. I used a spudger, which is a plastic tool to help. Putting the card in is fun. Can’t recall if Lyr was easy or hard. But if it’s space-impacted, i just loosened the motherboard to get some play, and she went in fine.

Don’t know if they’ve gone to light pipes on Lyr or still have the Leds on long legs. If led, get the top back on almost all theway, turn lyr bottom-up and getthe leds in their holes, then reseat the lid. If the leds stick out, gently push them flush.

patience is your friend here.


----------



## bcowen

JamminVMI said:


> Lyr hasthe screwless case, so it‘s just removing the knob and nut and iirc, push the case off forward. I used a spudger, which is a plastic tool to help. Putting the card in is fun. Can’t recall if Lyr was easy or hard. But if it’s space-impacted, i just loosened the motherboard to get some play, and she went in fine.
> 
> Don’t know if they’ve gone to light pipes on Lyr or still have the Leds on long legs. If led, get the top back on almost all theway, turn lyr bottom-up and getthe leds in their holes, then reseat the lid. If the leds stick out, gently push them flush.
> 
> patience is your friend here.


Yup, if it's the discrete LED with leads, getting it lined up and back through the top cover hole is the hardest part of the whole thing.  I found that it you pull the LED forward some it helps to see and maneuver it to get it lined up and actually in the hole before you push the top all the way back in.  Plenty of movement possible on the leads themselves.


----------



## Jigetz

I got the card installed and it works flawlessly. I like that I don't have to have the sys on my desk now and reduced the total amount of cables. I find it kind of odd that they don't offer this as an option on their ordering page. I did email them and they said that they do offer the RCA card as a special order option so there is that I guess.


----------



## JamminVMI

Jigetz said:


> I got the card installed and it works flawlessly. I like that I don't have to have the sys on my desk now and reduced the total amount of cables. I find it kind of odd that they don't offer this as an option on their ordering page. I did email them and they said that they do offer the RCA card as a special order option so there is that I guess.


Apparently, the RCA card is a wee bit dodgy to fit in the slot (clearance issues) in some headphone amps, and ppl may have complained a bit. So they make you work a bit.


----------



## jonathan c

Night shift at the ‘Laurel Mountain audio loft’ on Independence Eve (US) 🎵🎼:


----------



## TrumpOrMonkey

Just an update regarding noise floor on the Asgard 3, Jotunheim 2 and Lyr 3 that I posted about earlier; I have all of them on hand at the moment to be able to test this.

Current setup is: PC (Unison USB) -> Modius (XLR) -> Jotunheim 2 (RCA) -> Lyr 3 (RCA Grey Glass/EHX Gold Pin) / Asgard 3 -> Sony EX800ST

Jotunheim 2 (Single Ended) in low gain has a significant noise floor and a noticeable hum component.
Lyr 3 in low gain has no discernible noise or hum.
Asgard 3 in low gain has no discernible noise or hum.

My experience is in line with the APX555 measurements Schiit have done and posted on their site, which indicate that in low gain at 32ohm, the Jotunheim 2 starts at around 2% THD+N, while the Lyr 3 starts at 0.5%~ THD+N and the Asgard 3 around 0.25%~ THD+N at the lowest measured voltage output (showing residual noise).

So I think for people who plan to use sensitive headphones or IEMs in single ended, say for example - for people in a situation where they have headphones which have fixed cables, or that recabling their collection to balanced would cost a significant amount of money, then the Lyr 3 or Asgard 3 will be more suitable from a noise floor perspective. From Jotunheim 2 balanced output, it will be as good or better than the other options. Personally, for me I find it a great excuse to buy the Lyr 3 as it is an excellent sounding amp and is possibly my favorite now


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## supersonic395

Lyr+ incoming - definitely looking forward to impressions of it hopefully soon!!


----------



## Pondoro

Well, on the day that Lyr+ was announced, I got my used Lyr 3 with multibit running in a system with decent speakers. I struggled for a while because I used old USB 1.0 cables. That is fixed. So I am comparing a Lyr 3 with the multibit card to a Vali 2+ with a Modi 3, both driving powered Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a sub. I will eventually test Lyr 3 with the Modi versus Lyr 3 with multibit. And I’ll repeat with Klipsch Heresy speakers and a tube power amp. But tonight I’m really just getting used to the Lyr/multibit versus what was the standard in this room. The difference is noticeable. I’m a 1950’s and1960’s jazz guy. I’m listening to Sinatra. With the Lyr 3 and the multibit DAC card Frank seems to take a step forward on the stage. The strings behind him seem softer and yet also better defined. The bass instruments sound clearer and the spaces between the bass notes are more crisp. I do not know how much of this is the multibit DAC (my first > $100 DAC) and how much is the Lyr. Tube is a 1957 RCA 6SN7. I’ll listen for a week or so and then try the Modi into the Lyr’s analog input.  Trials with the tube power amp and the Heresy’s are probably a month away.

I do not level match. I start with the volume at zero and turn it up until I like the music. I then listen to several songs, usually an entire CD. I repeat with the other gear. All gear is individually adjusted until I like the volume. I don’t switch mid-song.


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## XERO1

Just a heads-up to anyone who is considering buying a new Lyr 3 from Schiit.

Now that the new Lyr+ has been announced (it will become available in the next couple months), the Lyr 3 has now been discontinued. There are only a few left (between 1-3 of each version, although more may _or may not_ show up in the 'B-Stock and Closeout' section later on), so if you are still interested in buying a new Lyr 3 from Schiit (with the 5 year warranty), *now is the time.*

https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


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## supersonic395

XERO1 said:


> Just a heads-up to anyone who is considering buying a new Lyr 3 from Schiit.
> 
> Now that the new Lyr+ has been announced (it will become available in the next couple months), the Lyr 3 has now been discontinued. There are only a few left (between 1-3 of each version, although more may _or may not_ show up in the 'B-Stock and Closeout' section later on), so if you are still interested in buying a new Lyr 3 from Schiit (with the 5 year warranty), *now is the time.*
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks



I'm very tempted to get one of the closeout Lyr 3 but I really want to read some impressions of the Lyr+


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## adamos (Jul 25, 2022)

Will this become an all things Lyr thread or will there be a new thread for Lyr+? I’m a happy Lyr 3 owner but I’ll be curious to follow the Lyr+ discussion especially once it’s available. Thanks


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## MacMan31

Fellow Lyr 3 owner. It's an overall great little tube amp even if it's a hybrid. However I am likely going to sell just because I now have a BHC and Feliks Audio Echo Mk2. But I just checked out the Lyr+ post here. Looks pretty sweet. The photo seems to indicate a new Bifrost as well?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6444#post-17061207


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## Pondoro

adamos said:


> Will this become an all things Lyr thread or will there be a new thread for Lyr+? I’m a happy Lyr 3 owner but I’ll be curious to follow the Lyr+ discussion especially once it’s available. Thanks


I also own a Lyr 3 and I am interested in both. Mine has a multibit DAC card, which might now be an orphan. (I will keep using it but discussion probably dries up.)


----------



## XERO1

adamos said:


> Will this become an all things Lyr thread or will there be a new thread for Lyr+? I’m a happy Lyr 3 owner but I’ll be curious to follow the Lyr+ discussion especially once it’s available. Thanks


The new Lyr+ thread is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/


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## jonathan c

If you try Lyr3 with a pair of 6C5 or 6J5 tubes - metal or glass (GT) - via a @Deyan adapter (🏆🥇), you may become an even happier Lyr3 owner. Schiit happened to me 😄!!


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## David222 (Aug 24, 2022)

Excited to begin exploring Schiit gear.  Not sure what took me so long.  The Lyr3 + CBS Hytron 5692 sounds wonderful


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## ssmith3046

David222 said:


> Excited to begin exploring Schiit gear.  Not sure what took me so long.  The Lyr3 + CBS Hytron 5692 sounds wonderful


Better late than never!


----------



## chef8489

I'm back in the game after a few years after selling. Just got one back in the other day with multibit from closeouts.


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## David222

ssmith3046 said:


> Better late than never!



Indeed!  Have the 6J5 adapter arriving this week from Deyan. Looking forward to that as well_ (thanks to Jonathan). _


----------



## jonathan c

David222 said:


> Excited to begin exploring Schiit gear.  Not sure what took me so long.  The Lyr3 + CBS Hytron 5692 sounds wonderful


Nice! But you’re not done yet! There’s the little matter of the SR Purple fuse….Then, get your Lyr one of these…


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## David222

jonathan c said:


> Nice! But you’re not done yet! There’s the little matter of the SR Purple fuse….Then, get your Lyr one of these…



LOL - I actually noticed your knob change earlier - I had missed it at first -


----------



## Paladin79

David222 said:


> Indeed!  Have the 6J5 adapter arriving this week from Deyan. Looking forward to that as well_ (thanks to Jonathan). _


I may have extra 6j5's packed away in boxes if you need some. I have specific types I like but I ended up with multiple sets.


----------



## quimbo

Paladin79 said:


> I may have extra 6j5's packed away in boxes if you need some. I have specific types I like but I ended up with multiple sets.


I also have an adapter arriving from Deyan and I received 2 Raytheon 6J5WGT tubes yesterday from AZ Tubes


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## Paladin79

I have one of his adapters somewhere, and use 6sn7's in amps I designed but I did not always leave room for the adapters.


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## David222

Paladin79 said:


> I may have extra 6j5's packed away in boxes if you need some. I have specific types I like but I ended up with multiple sets.



Much obliged my friend!  Will drop you a note once I get the adapter.


----------



## David222

Paladin79 said:


> I have one of his adapters somewhere, and use 6sn7's in amps I designed but I did not always leave room for the adapters.



The incubus is a true work of art.  Amazing!!


----------



## Paladin79

David222 said:


> The incubus is a true work of art.  Amazing!!


This is the early stage of the build as I attached the ladder pots to the top.


----------



## jonathan c

Paladin79 said:


> I have one of his adapters somewhere, and use 6sn7's in amps I designed but I did not always leave room for the adapters.


…ask Finnegan, he’ll know where it is…😸


----------



## cgb3

adamos said:


> Will this become an all things Lyr thread or will there be a new thread for Lyr+? I’m a happy Lyr 3 owner but I’ll be curious to follow the Lyr+ discussion especially once it’s available. Thanks


Why? The sole reason to own a Lyr, is the ability to use a tube (to alter one's sound).

The Lyr+ allows one to operate the amp without a tube.  Again, Why?

Love my Lyr 3. Makes a great 1 tube preamp to my Jot 2. Tube beauty, and power, for under $1K (priced with the Jot 2).


----------



## porchwizard

cgb3 said:


> Why? The sole reason to own a Lyr, is the ability to use a tube (to alter one's sound).
> 
> The Lyr+ allows one to operate the amp without a tube.  Again, Why?
> 
> Love my Lyr 3. Makes a great 1 tube preamp to my Jot 2. Tube beauty, and power, for under $1K (priced with the Jot 2).


Different strokes for different folks.
I have a Lyr 3 but the bulk of my listening is via near field monitors and often as background or energizing music while I work, subject to numerous interruptions for phone calls and whatever.
I'm looking at LISST so I can let it run all day and not worry about wearing out tubes on non-critical listening.
If I didn't already have a Lyr 3 I would be all over a Lyr +.
The Lyr package is still perfect for my use case of computer usb -> lyr -> {headphones|monitors}


----------



## chef8489

porchwizard said:


> Different strokes for different folks.
> I have a Lyr 3 but the bulk of my listening is via near field monitors and often as background or energizing music while I work, subject to numerous interruptions for phone calls and whatever.
> I'm looking at LISST so I can let it run all day and not worry about wearing out tubes on non-critical listening.
> If I didn't already have a Lyr 3 I would be all over a Lyr +.
> The Lyr package is still perfect for my use case of computer usb -> lyr -> {headphones|monitors}


Only issue with the Lyr+ for me is the lack of modules and its why I just bought the closeout lyr 3 with multibit as I always loved the one I sold and regretted it. If I had a bit more room or felt the bifrost was worth it over the lyr 3 multibit, I might have considered the 1600 or 1700.00 investment for the combo, but the 1600.00 bought me the lyr 3 multibit and a pair of lcd 2c brand new and I really dont think it would have sounded that much different.


----------



## JamminVMI

chef8489 said:


> Only issue with the Lyr+ for me is the lack of modules and its why I just bought the closeout lyr 3 with multibit as I always loved the one I sold and regretted it. If I had a bit more room or felt the bifrost was worth it over the lyr 3 multibit, I might have considered the 1600 or 1700.00 investment for the combo, but the 1600.00 bought me the lyr 3 multibit and a pair of lcd 2c brand new and I really dont think it would have sounded that much different.


That (modules) is what I wonder about re: Lyr+… Not knowing sales figures for with/without modules for Lyr 3, tough to tell. But I’d really like to know the distribution. I have the same module in all of my Schiit that will take them - second RCA input card.


----------



## Zachik

JamminVMI said:


> That (modules) is what I wonder about re: Lyr+… Not knowing sales figures for with/without modules for Lyr 3, tough to tell. But I’d really like to know the distribution. I have the same module in all of my Schiit that will take them - second RCA input card.


I have added recently a MB card to my Lyr3, intending to re-purpose it as my office "system".  I really wanted a single chassis system for the office... Power cord, USB cable to my work laptop... done! Might or might not buy a Lyr+ for home (amps are plentiful as it is, but I really like my Lyr3, so...)


----------



## chef8489

Zachik said:


> I have added recently a MB card to my Lyr3, intending to re-purpose it as my office "system".  I really wanted a single chassis system for the office... Power cord, USB cable to my work laptop... done! Might or might not buy a Lyr+ for home (amps are plentiful as it is, but I really like my Lyr3, so...)


It's a great setup. I am falling in love with it all over again. I'm really glad I picked one back up.


----------



## JamminVMI

Zachik said:


> I have added recently a MB card to my Lyr3, intending to re-purpose it as my office "system".  I really wanted a single chassis system for the office... Power cord, USB cable to my work laptop... done! Might or might not buy a Lyr+ for home (amps are plentiful as it is, but I really like my Lyr3, so...)


Et tu, brute? I’m thinking about it as well.


----------



## David222

Oh man -  this Lyr3 is a fun little AMP.   Glad I finally took the plunge 

Ken-Rad VT-231+ RS1x is just perfect


----------



## adamos (Sep 1, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Why? The sole reason to own a Lyr, is the ability to use a tube (to alter one's sound).
> 
> The Lyr+ allows one to operate the amp without a tube.  Again, Why?
> 
> Love my Lyr 3. Makes a great 1 tube preamp to my Jot 2. Tube beauty, and power, for under $1K (priced with the Jot 2).



Why am I curious about the Lyr+? It’s simple - because I like learning more about new Schiit products and reading people’s listening impressions, etc. But I agree; I own a Lyr 3 specifically because I want to use a tube and I don’t have a use case that would make switching back and forth with SS a strong advantage. So it’s not likely something I’d be looking to buy now but it still seems kinda cool and you never know when a need might arise.


----------



## jclyle

David222 said:


> Oh man -  this Lyr3 is a fun little AMP.   Glad I finally took the plunge
> 
> Ken-Rad VT-231+ RS1x is just perfect


That's a smokin' setup!


----------



## bcowen

adamos said:


> Why am I curious about the Lyr+? It’s simple - because I like learning more about new Schiit products and reading people’s listening impressions, etc. But I agree; I own a Lyr 3 specifically because I want to use a tube and I don’t have a use case that would make switching back and forth with SS a strong advantage. So it’s not likely something I’d be looking to buy now but it still seems kinda cool and you never know when a need might arise.


Click your heels together three times and repeat:  "There's no such thing as too many amps, there's no such thing as too many amps..."   🤣


----------



## Ripper2860

adamos said:


> I’m a happy Lyr 3 owner but I’ll be curious to follow the Lyr+ discussion especially once it’s available. Thanks


Unless you're wanting the remote volume, why not just keep your Lyr 3 OG and just get a LISST SS tube?  It's the same SS tech but in an external and removable form-factor.


----------



## chef8489

Ripper2860 said:


> Unless you're wanting the remote volume, why not just keep your Lyr 3 OG and just get a LISST SS tube?  It's the same SS tech but in an external and removable form-factor.


Plus you have the option for dac cards with the lyr 3.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ripper2860 said:


> Unless you're wanting the remote volume, why not just keep your Lyr 3 OG and just get a LISST SS tube?  It's the same SS tech but in an external and removable form-factor.


That’s exactly my use case. I love nothing better than watching sports with volume off, Schiit gear and headphones on. I’m a whole 3+ meters (call it 10 feet) from my gear, so I bought the Saga OG early on for volume control of Lyr 3 and Jot 2. Lazy man’s volume control for sure. Also have the LISST OG, and willbe getting a couple new ones as well, but I’m blissfully happy with the setup!


----------



## dilbertprogrammer

chef8489 said:


> Plus you have the option for dac cards with the lyr 3.



I've been contemplating the Lyr+. 

Best I can tell, when you compare moving to the Lyr+ from the Lyr 3:

You *get*:

Fusion Architecture for seamless tube and solid state gain (including ability to use the amp with no tube installed)
Relay-ladder volume control for perfect channel matching
Remote control (volume, input, preamp,  tube / solid state, and gain)
An additional input (2 instead of 1)

You *lose*:

Ability to install/use modular DAC or phono preamp cards 

You *trade*:

Flip switches for push buttons 

You *keep*:

Maximum output per channel (e.g., 9W/16ohms, 6W/32ohms, etc)
Ability to use your existing 6SN7 and compatible tubes and adapters 
Ability to have tube gain or SS gain (via LISST)
As always I guess it comes down to the individual's Use Case and/or preferences.


----------



## bcowen

dilbertprogrammer said:


> I've been contemplating the Lyr+.
> 
> Best I can tell, when you compare moving to the Lyr+ from the Lyr 3:
> 
> ...


Very nice summary!


----------



## JamminVMI

dilbertprogrammer said:


> I've been contemplating the Lyr+.
> 
> Best I can tell, when you compare moving to the Lyr+ from the Lyr 3:
> 
> ...


Well, for very little money, you can, and I did, add an additional RCA input card to Lyr 3. Not to complicate things here… But for my use case, that was a game changer!


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 4, 2022)

@dilbertprogrammer, you also lose the ability to use the current 6J5+6J5 -> 6SN7 adapter by @Deyan - because of the concave surface surrounding the tube socket - hence a special route to fantastic sound.


----------



## JamminVMI

jonathan c said:


> @dilbertprogrammer, you also lose the ability to use the current 6J5+6J5 -> 6SN7 adapter by @Deyan - because of the concave surface surrounding the tube socket - hence a special route to fantastic sound.


Wait, how about a socket saver?


----------



## jonathan c

JamminVMI said:


> Wait, how about a socket saver?


I had not thought of socket saver plus adapter. It should work - ? possibility of hum due to greater number of pins & socket tubes?


----------



## Thetaburn

How is the synergy between the Lyr3 amp paired with the Hifiman He1000v2?


----------



## JamminVMI

Thetaburn said:


> How is the synergy between the Lyr3 amp paired with the Hifiman He1000v2?


Caveat: I don’t own HE1000vw, but have and love my planars (Sundara, HE4xx, DCA Ether CX, Aeon2 Open, and Aeon RT closed). With all of the aforementioned cans, Lyr3 absolutely makes them sing. I hope someone with the 1000v2s answers, as I’d like to know as well. HTH.


----------



## JamminVMI

jonathan c said:


> @dilbertprogrammer, you also lose the ability to use the current 6J5+6J5 -> 6SN7 adapter by @Deyan - because of the concave surface surrounding the tube socket - hence a special route to fantastic sound.


Got a good source for 6J5s Or recommendations? Miight have just ordered one of those adapters…


----------



## j0val (Sep 6, 2022)

If anyone is interested, I'm looking to sell my Lyr 3 (great condition, purchased new, only a year old, original packaging).  😀

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/lyr-3-black-no-module-115vac.31940/

Edit: Sold!


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## jonathan c

JamminVMI said:


> Got a good source for 6J5s Or recommendations? Miight have just ordered one of those adapters…


My favourite: last pair…


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## adamos

Ripper2860 said:


> Unless you're wanting the remote volume, why not just keep your Lyr 3 OG and just get a LISST SS tube?  It's the same SS tech but in an external and removable form-factor.



Yes, I’m planning to keep my Lyr 3 and I might get a LISST at some point just for the fun of it. But I don’t really see myself wanting to play it without a tube very often.


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## JamminVMI (Sep 5, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> My favourite: last pair…


Tyvm, sir! (soon to be my favourites as well, chuffed to get them!)


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## David222

JamminVMI said:


> Tyvm, sir! (soon to be my favourites as well, chuffed to get them!)



I bought a pair of these KRs as well. Thanks to @jonathan c


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## jonathan c

JamminVMI said:


> That’s exactly my use case. I love nothing better than watching sports with *volume *off, Schiit gear and headphones on. I’m a whole 3+ meters (call it 10 feet) from my gear, so I bought the Saga OG early on for volume control of Lyr 3 and Jot 2. Lazy man’s volume control for sure. Also have the LISST OG, and willbe getting a couple new ones as well, but I’m blissfully happy with the setup!


…is that how it is done? I’ve been watching sports with the _screen_ off…🤦🏻🤪…


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## JamminVMI

jonathan c said:


> …is that how it is done? I’ve been watching sports with the _screen_ off…🤦🏻🤪…


😳 We are all different. I like my Dodgers baseball…


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## Pondoro

Baseball is best on a noisy AM tube radio. Someone could build a DAC for that.


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## jonathan c

Pondoro said:


> Baseball is best on a noisy AM tube radio. Someone could build a DAC*** for that.


*** Dodgers Against Cubs…😂


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## dilbertprogrammer

JamminVMI said:


> Got a good source for 6J5s Or recommendations? Miight have just ordered one of those adapters…


@JamminVMI -- 

Here are a couple of other 6J5 tube pair options for your consideration:

Matched Pair RCA Radiotron 6J5 Vacuum Tubes Valves NOS NIB
2 matched 1960s RCA 6J5 Tubes (Hickok TV7B tests @ 105, 107, min: 50)


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## JamminVMI

Pondoro said:


> Baseball is best on a noisy AM tube radio. Someone could build a DAC for that.


Ye gods, man! NOTHING is best on a noisy AM radio. Sometimes old things aren't nostalgic, they're just old.


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## InvisibleInk

JamminVMI said:


> Ye gods, man! NOTHING is best on a noisy AM radio. Sometimes old things aren't nostalgic, they're just old.



Agree with Pondoro. Baseball on FM, is just wrong!


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## JamminVMI

InvisibleInk said:


> Agree with Pondoro. Baseball on FM, is just wrong!


Lol. Don’t think I’ve ever seen bb on FM. I just watch it and listen to music. Not like I can’t figure it out.


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## Ichos

Really amazing piece of gear!




WIP...


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## David222

Sometimes I wonder where @jonathan c gets the inspiration from?   Grado on the LYR3 with 2x GEC L63 is a sonic treat 🍭


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## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> Really amazing piece of gear!
> 
> WIP...


West in Peace?….(Elmer Fudd)🤣


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## jonathan c

David222 said:


> Sometimes I wonder where @jonathan c gets the inspiration from?   Grado on the LYR3 with 2x GEC L63 is a sonic treat 🍭


Great setup! Next step (really for Grados): use a pair of Ken-Rad metals 6C5 or 6J5 on the @Deyan adapter. _Unreal in realness…_


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## David222

Tomorrow night's delight!  

The GECs are incredibly resolving (no complaints) -- will be interesting to hear if the Ken-Rads take me "there" a bit more.


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## Ichos

jonathan c said:


> West in Peace?….(Elmer Fudd)🤣


Come over here you scwewy wabbit!


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## supersonic395

Ichos said:


> Really amazing piece of gear!
> 
> WIP...



What streamer is that under the Schiit?


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## Ichos

supersonic395 said:


> What streamer is that under the Schiit?


iFi NEO Stream.


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## Ichos

Can the $599 Schiit Lyr handle the $5K Utopia 2022?


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## chef8489

Ichos said:


> Can the $599 Schiit Lyr handle the $5K Utopia 2022?


Yes.


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## JamminVMI

Ichos said:


> Can the $599 Schiit Lyr handle the $5K Utopia 2022?


Easily. Price matters not. There are great headphones out there that don’t set you back nearly 5K that are much harder to drive. With that said, enjoy (and let us know what you think)!


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## Ichos

JamminVMI said:


> Easily. Price matters not. There are great headphones out there that don’t set you back nearly 5K that are much harder to drive. With that said, enjoy (and let us know what you think)!


The question was about quality and not power.


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## JamminVMI

Ichos said:


> The question was about quality and not power.


Apologies. When you said “handle”, I inferred you meant the ability to drive the Utopia. Sorry. My answer is “brilliant”. Lyr 3 is my favourite headamp. it’s my daily driver. Currently with a Linlai tube. Bottom line, enjoy!


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## Ichos

JamminVMI said:


> Apologies. When you said “handle”, I inferred you meant the ability to drive the Utopia. Sorry. My answer is “brilliant”. Lyr 3 is my favourite headamp. it’s my daily driver. Currently with a Linlai tube. Bottom line, enjoy!


No need to apologize for anything, I must apologize for my bad English!

Did you notice the tube at the photo?

Psvane UK-6SN7, you should definitely give this one a try.


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## JamminVMI

Ichos said:


> No need to apologize for anything, I must apologize for my bad English!
> 
> Did you notice the tube at the photo?
> 
> Psvane UK-6SN7, you should definitely give this one a try.


 The Psvane CV181-T Mk II is not to be missed! I also like the SE (tennis ball variant. The real surprise for me is Schiit’s LISST, their solid state “tube”. Always good to have options. No worries about your English, my Greek is awful! Efharisto for the tube suggestion!


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## Ichos

JamminVMI said:


> The Psvane CV181-T Mk II is not to be missed! I also like the SE (tennis ball variant. The real surprise for me is Schiit’s LISST, their solid state “tube”. Always good to have options. No worries about your English, my Greek is awful! Efharisto for the tube suggestion!


Thank you very much for the suggestion.
My Feliks Audio Euforia is using this type of tubes.
I am reviewing the new Lyr so a solid state input stage is already included!


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## tcellguy

I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, but the new LISST sounds really great with Lyr 3 / BF2. I've only been using a new production Tung Sol and Psvane UK-6SN7 in my amp so I don't have any fancy NOS tubes to compare. The LISST has a nicely balanced very detailed solid state sound but very smooth in the upper mid and treble. It also has a pretty good sound stage. It definitely sounds different than tubes, but this definitely a nice option for a different sound signature. I'll have to compare over time, but this is sounding more detailed than Jot 2. Compared to the tubes, LISST makes the amp hit harder in the sub bass and transients at the cost of some sound stage and warmth (but not that much?). I'm very happy with this. I think I'm noticing the upper midrange the most, which seems forward, and probably is enhancing the sense of detail, but it's just strikingly clear and smooth.


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## ThanatosVI

tcellguy said:


> I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, but the new LISST sounds really great with Lyr 3 / BF2. I've only been using a new production Tung Sol and Psvane UK-6SN7 in my amp so I don't have any fancy NOS tubes to compare. The LISST has a nicely balanced very detailed solid state sound but very smooth in the upper mid and treble. It also has a pretty good sound stage. It definitely sounds different than tubes, but this definitely a nice option for a different sound signature. I'll have to compare over time, but this is sounding more detailed than Jot 2. Compared to the tubes, LISST makes the amp hit harder in the sub bass and transients at the cost of some sound stage and warmth (but not that much?). I'm very happy with this. I think I'm noticing the upper midrange the most, which seems forward, and probably is enhancing the sense of detail, but it's just strikingly clear and smooth.


Do you have sensitive cans and can you hear some noise with the LISST?


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## jonathan c

ThanatosVI said:


> Do you have sensitive cans and can you hear some noise with the LISST?


HISST with LISST?….🤔🤣🤣


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## Ichos

jonathan c said:


> HISST with LISST?….🤔🤣🤣


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## JamminVMI

ThanatosVI said:


> Do you have sensitive cans and can you hear some noise with the LISST?


I have DCA Ether and aÆon, and neither exhibit any HISST with LISST.


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## tcellguy

ThanatosVI said:


> Do you have sensitive cans and can you hear some noise with the LISST?


Will try later with m50x and Emu teak. I don't have any IEMs.


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## tcellguy

There's a definite hiss in my system with LISST on high gain using ATH-m50x. It's not audible when playing music. The hiss is essentially gone on low gain (maybe a super faint one). With Dan Clark ETHER Cx and AEon I agree, totally silent. Not sure if there is some crazy synergy but this combination of Lyr 3 / BF2 / ETHER Cx is just great.


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## JamminVMI

tcellguy said:


> There's a definite hiss in my system with LISST on high gain using ATH-m50x. It's not audible when playing music. The hiss is essentially gone on low gain (maybe a super faint one). With Dan Clark ETHER Cx and AEon I agree, totally silent. Not sure if there is some crazy synergy but this combination of Lyr 3 / BF2 / ETHER Cx is just great.


Agree on the synergy, now try the Cx with Valhalla 2…


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## cgb3 (Tuesday at 9:07 PM)

JamminVMI said:


> Apologies. When you said “handle”, I inferred you meant the ability to drive the Utopia. Sorry. My answer is “brilliant”. Lyr 3 is my favourite headamp. it’s my daily driver. Currently with a Linlai tube. Bottom line, enjoy!


https://linlaiglobal.com/index.php/product/linlai-global-elite-e-6sn7-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/

Too funny!

Sorry, I posted too quckily. I assumed single rather than the 2 tube price. Expensive, maybe worth it.


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## Odin412

cgb3 said:


> https://linlaiglobal.com/index.php/product/linlai-global-elite-e-6sn7-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/
> 
> Too funny!
> 
> Sorry, I posted too quckily. I assumed single rather than the 2 tube price. Expensive, maybe worth it.


Cool-looking tube! I bought a couple of Linlai tubes, but I prefer the Psvane tubes in the Lyr 3, especially the 'tennis ball' 6SN7.


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