# iPod Classic + Algorhythm Solo + ALO RX mkII worth it?



## 182751

Hey Guys,
  I've just invested in some UM Miracle IEM's and am looking for a suitable portable setup, from what I've read this is pretty much the ideal setup for what I'm looking for, but as I'm quite new to all this, I thought I'd ask for some advice.
   
  iPod Classic + Algorhythm Solo + ALO RX mkII
   
  Just wanted to get some impressions from people before I dive in at ~$1000... Is it worth the money? Or are there better solutions for the same price range (or cheaper with better sound?)
   
  I like a pretty balanced sound signature, but with a slight (very slight) emphasis on low end, I played bass in a few bands for many years, so like to highlight these end of the spectrum when listening to my music. Obviously my budget is around $1000 and I'm looking for something that is around or equally as portable as the above combination.
   
  Any advice greatly appreciated.
   
  Please let me know if you require any further information.


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## MorbidToaster

Very interested in this topic as I'm looking to do something similar soon and like the same signature. 
   
  EDIT: I'm looking to power the HE 500 though. lol


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## uelover

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Hey Guys,
> I've just invested in some UM Miracle IEM's and am looking for a suitable portable setup, from what I've read this is pretty much the ideal setup for what I'm looking for, but as I'm quite new to all this, I thought I'd ask for some advice.
> 
> iPod Classic + Algorhythm Solo + ALO RX mkII
> ...


 

 Hmm why did you get UM Miracle if you like a slight bump in bass?
   
  Maybe you can use SR71B as the amp.


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## fdhfdy

I'd also like to find out how good is the little metal box.


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## maverickronin

Initial signs point to no...


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## Canadian411

I invested little bit different.
   
  iPhone/iPod
   
  RSA Sr-71b ($650)
  ALO LOD 18awg cable ($200)
  ALO 22awg balanced lcd cable ($350)
   
  well over $1000 setup (not including DAC), to me it's not worth it.
   
  Better to invest in non portable headphone amps such as Burson HA-D160, Apache, or tube amps etc..
   
  Do you really need to hear a sensational music when you are outdoor ? Most of time I appreciate my lcd2 headphone in a quiet room where no one can disturb me.


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## Canadian411

Oh in addition, Ray suggested to use better source than iPod when using sr-71b.
   
  So if your main source is ipod, pretty much garbage sound into your headphone amp will produce garbage sound output.
   
  Better fix the source first.


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## shotgunshane

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> Oh in addition, Ray suggested to use better source than iPod when using sr-71b.
> 
> So if your main source is ipod, pretty much garbage sound into your headphone amp will produce garbage sound output.
> 
> Better fix the source first.


 
   
  I suppose Jude uses 'garbage' then.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/135#post_7490978
  Granted they are only transports in those rigs but I don't buy this bash Apple rubbish.
http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iPhone4Hornet/data.htm
  Tests with one of Ray's products.


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## MorbidToaster

shotgunshane said:


> I suppose Jude uses 'garbage' then.
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/135#post_7490978
> Granted they are only transports in those rigs but I don't buy this bash Apple rubbish.




I don't buy the bashing when it's literally just a hard drive and a UI. if you're just using an LOD to the sr 71, I'd agree.


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## maverickronin

The LOD measures better...


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## ianmedium

canadian411 said:


> Oh in addition, Ray suggested to use better source than iPod when using sr-71b.
> 
> So if your main source is ipod, pretty much garbage sound into your headphone amp will produce garbage sound output.
> 
> Better fix the source first.




I think the OP is looking at using an Algorythm solo with his classic in which case it is most certainly not Garbage! In fact all this iPod bashing is nonsense as before I had the solo I just used the classic on it's own with a good quality LOD and it sounded fine, not solo great but it most certainly was not garbage like some of the flavour of the month players that folks here rave about but have to have all sorts of nonsense EQ'ing to sound half decent!


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## MorbidToaster

Eh. I'll be the first to say that I'm not immune to placebo effects. Could be all the Solo is, but whatever sounds best to the person listening, I suppose.
   
  My point was more about the bashing rather than the iPod itself. I'm not sure how you can bash a hard drive (and IMO) a decent interface unless it flat out doesn't work.
  
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The LOD measures better...


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## 182751

Thanks all for your input, this is all helping me!
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> Hmm why did you get UM Miracle if you like a slight bump in bass?
> 
> Maybe you can use SR71B as the amp.


 

  
  This is the email from Unique Melody when I was first deciding on what to choose for my IEM's
   
_"given what you've described as your musical preferences, I'm really comfortable recommending the Miracle"_
   
  Is that not correct?
   
  As for the SR-71B, I was looking at this, and would definitely consider it. But now a quick few questions. (Please excuse my lack of understanding, still learning) What's the difference between the SR-71A and the SR-71B? And would I notice the difference when using this as a portable device? As I would only be using the SE input and not the balance input?
   
  Also would it still be recommended to use the Algorhythm Solo+ and the SR-71? Or just the SR-71 by itself?
  
  Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> I invested little bit different.
> 
> iPhone/iPod
> 
> ...


 


  The main reason for my purchase is I have a rather lengthy travel into work each day via train, and I listen to music the whole way in, so this was a way for me to enjoy that time a little more. While I know it will never sound like a high end desktop setup, I'd like something that is as close as I can get it without spending outrageous amounts on it. After all, I am taking all of this on public transport.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I would be using a high quality LOD and I believe the cable that comes with the Miracle is of a high quality and shouldn't require replacing immediately.
  
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As far as Sources go, I chose the iPod for that reason, as with a LOD you basically by-pass the crappy built in amp and get a pure Line-Out signal, or at least that's my understanding, and in which case the iPod is ideal as it's 160gb. If this is incorrect please tell me, but that was my understand and also the reason why I need to buy a seperate portable amp.
   
  Would I still need to use (or notice the benefit of using) the Algorhythm Solo+ with the SR-71?


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Eh. I'll be the first to say that I'm not immune to placebo effects. Could be all the Solo is, but whatever sounds best to the person listening, I suppose.
> 
> My point was more about the bashing rather than the iPod itself. I'm not sure how you can bash a hard drive (and IMO) a decent interface unless it flat out doesn't work.


 

 Sorry, should have quoted the right person.  I was responding to the idea SQ would be garbage from the LOD but awesome from the CLAS.
   
  I'm not up on the specs of each model because I despise the interface (a separate issue...) but from the measurements I've seen most of the new iStuff has quite respectable performance.  Their biggest flaw is that most of them except for the newer iPhones (I think) have too much output impedance which can mess up the FR of BA IEMs and necessitates the use of a separate amp for even the most efficient of them.  I've read that the next Touch is supposed to fix that issue as well as add a 24bit DAC.
   
  None of this says you can't like the CLAS better, but it does show that there is little objective basis for praising it while calling the LOD garbage.  Based on the numbers I've seen, the most you can claim for the CLAS is that its different.


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## ianmedium

acesi7 said:


> Thanks all for your input, this is all helping me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are correct in that the LOD bypasses the amp but you are still leaving the iPod to do the digital work. A lot of folks here hate and Loath the iPod. I have to say now having the solo whilst it makes a huge difference I never felt I lacked musical enjoyment with just the classic. I found that people here compare the classic sans EQ with EQ'd devices of other brands. I heard several cowons non eq'd and did not find the sound better than the ipod but that was just my finding and goes against a lot of folks idea here!

I have to say though that if you can afford to get the solo at the same time I would very much recommend to as it brings so much to the listening experience. 
Evolvement, emotionally to the music, clarity, detail and what Naim called pace rhythm and timing. I use mine in combination with Stepdance amp with external 15v battery and Audeze LCD 2's for home and Etymotic ER4S's for out and about and the sound is not like a portable sound but more like a home based system.

I am seriously considering the new Triad L3 as an amp, not because the Stepdance is lacking but more I would like to get every last ounce out of the great source and phones and still keep it portable (and yes, it is portable to the younger members here. I am old enough to remember having to carry a brick of a tape player and tapes around with me years ago and thought that was portable!)

Apparently the new RX is a great amp and of course has been designed to work well with the solo so that would be a good choice as well.
Hope that helps!


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## shotgunshane

Correct. It's really only the Touch that has the bad output impedance. The 4 is under 1 and I believe the nano and shuttle are under 2.


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## MorbidToaster

I like the fact that you're speaking from a lot of experience with the Solo. Your rig was actually one I loved.
   
  I'll be testing the Solo/Rx combo soon with the HE 500, I'll definitely report back.
   
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> You are correct in that the LOD bypasses the amp but you are still leaving the iPod to do the digital work. A lot of folks here hate and Loath the iPod. I have to say now having the solo whilst it makes a huge difference I never felt I lacked musical enjoyment with just the classic. I found that people here compare the classic sans EQ with EQ'd devices of other brands. I heard several cowons non eq'd and did not find the sound better than the ipod but that was just my finding and goes against a lot of folks idea here!
> 
> I have to say though that if you can afford to get the solo at the same time I would very much recommend to as it brings so much to the listening experience.
> Evolvement, emotionally to the music, clarity, detail and what Naim called pace rhythm and timing. I use mine in combination with Stepdance amp with external 15v battery and Audeze LCD 2's for home and Etymotic ER4S's for out and about and the sound is not like a portable sound but more like a home based system.
> ...


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Correct. It's really only the Touch that has the bad output impedance. The 4 is under 1 and I believe the nano and shuttle are under 2.


 

 That's better than I though.  The classic is still (Was? I can't keep track of the damn versions.) pretty high though.


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## 182751

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> You are correct in that the LOD bypasses the amp but you are still leaving the iPod to do the digital work. A lot of folks here hate and Loath the iPod. I have to say now having the solo whilst it makes a huge difference I never felt I lacked musical enjoyment with just the classic. I found that people here compare the classic sans EQ with EQ'd devices of other brands. I heard several cowons non eq'd and did not find the sound better than the ipod but that was just my finding and goes against a lot of folks idea here!
> 
> I have to say though that if you can afford to get the solo at the same time I would very much recommend to as it brings so much to the listening experience.
> Evolvement, emotionally to the music, clarity, detail and what Naim called pace rhythm and timing. I use mine in combination with Stepdance amp with external 15v battery and Audeze LCD 2's for home and Etymotic ER4S's for out and about and the sound is not like a portable sound but more like a home based system.
> ...


 


  Thanks very much for sharing your experience! I'm very new to this and really appreciate the help before spending my $$'s on the wrong gear. Although I must admit the idea of carrying around a 15v battery doesn't really appeal.  I'll try to stick to the ultra portable gear.

  
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Sorry, should have quoted the right person.  I was responding to the idea SQ would be garbage from the LOD but awesome from the CLAS.
> 
> I'm not up on the specs of each model because I despise the interface (a separate issue...) but from the measurements I've seen most of the new iStuff has quite respectable performance.  Their biggest flaw is that most of them except for the newer iPhones (I think) have too much output impedance which can mess up the FR of BA IEMs and necessitates the use of a separate amp for even the most efficient of them.  I've read that the next Touch is supposed to fix that issue as well as add a 24bit DAC.
> 
> None of this says you can't like the CLAS better, but it does show that there is little objective basis for praising it while calling the LOD garbage.  Based on the numbers I've seen, the most you can claim for the CLAS is that its different.


 


  Please excuse my ignorance, but what does CLAS mean/stand for?
   
  Edit: CLAS = CyberLabs Algorhythm Solo, sorry, just worked it out. *shakes head*
  
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> That's better than I though.  The classic is still (Was? I can't keep track of the damn versions.) pretty high though.


 


  I would also be very interested in this, as I have an iPhone 4, but was under the impression that the latest generation of iPod Classic would be of similar quality, only really choosing the Classic for the size, but if it's of inferior quality and sound I'll stick with my iPhone 4 for my source.


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## maverickronin

Quote:


acesi7 said:


> I would also be very interested in this, as I have an iPhone 4, but was under the impression that the latest generation of iPod Classic would be of similar quality, only really choosing the Classic for the size, but if it's of inferior quality and sound I'll stick with my iPhone 4 for my source.


 

 The classic has a higher output impedance than the iphone 4.  That can change the frequency response of some headphones.  Balanced armature IEMs are especially susceptible to this.  Look at the difference between the 4 > TripleFi frequency response and the Classic > TripleFi frequency response.  This problem can be fixed though.  If you add a decent amp with low output impedance in between the flawed frequency response will be fixed.
   
  If you're willing to add an amp in between the Classic should sound just as good as the iphone.


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## ianmedium

acesi7 said:


> Thanks very much for sharing your experience! I'm very new to this and really appreciate the help before spending my $$'s on the wrong gear. Although I must admit the idea of carrying around a 15v battery doesn't really appeal.  I'll try to stick to the ultra portable gear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your welcome, don't worry about the battery, that is just for the Stepdance as it improves an already great sound. The RX has an internal battery I think so the 3 tier stack won't be too big!


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## 182751

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> The classic has a higher output impedance than the iphone 4.  That can change the frequency response of some headphones.  Balanced armature IEMs are especially susceptible to this.  Look at the difference between the 4 > TripleFi frequency response and the Classic > TripleFi frequency response.  This problem can be fixed though.  If you add a decent amp with low output impedance in between the flawed frequency response will be fixed.
> 
> If you're willing to add an amp in between the Classic should sound just as good as the iphone.


 


  Well given I'm willing to add an amp this should be a problem, thanks for shedding some light on that for me, It's all been extremely helpful. So now I guess the thing is choosing an appropriate amp. And deciding if the CLAS is worth the investment.


  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Your welcome, don't worry about the battery, that is just for the Stepdance as it improves an already great sound. The RX has an internal battery I think so the 3 tier stack won't be too big!


 


  That was one of the most appealing features that it's almost identical size to the RX and the CLAS so it is all quite manageable in size.
   
   
  So I guess for my next question would be: ALO RX mkII vs. SR-71?
  and would there be any advantage in getting the SR-71B even though I'm only going to be using singled ended interconnects?
   
  There would have to be a fairly good case for the SR-71 to make it appealing as the price difference once I include shipping from 2 seperate US companies to Aus will be pretty hefty.
   
  Currently:
  AlgoRhythm Solo + Rx Mk2 amp + ALO audio interconnects - $1229.00 +Shipping
  -vs-
  AlgoRhythm Solo - $579.00
  AlgoRhythm Solo Interconnect Cable Combo - $235.00
  Shipping - $??
  Emmeline “SR-71B” The Black Bird, Fully balanced input-output portable headphone amp - $650 -or- Emmeline “The Black Bird” SR-71A Portable Headphone Amp - $450
 Shipping - $??
  Total = $1464.00 -or- $1264.00 +Shipping x2
    

   So there is potentially quite a difference. I would love some opinions and comments.
   
  Thanks again!


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## ianmedium

I would get the 71 over the RX in a heartbeat, the Rx is great, the 71 even in single end mode is simply in a different league, if you can afford it go for it then you have the best of the best and at some point in the future you can get balanced cables and be in pure heaven!


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## Jalo

If you are going to use the idevices like iphone or ipod classic, the Solo is a must.  There is a huge difference between with and w/o Solo, much more so than which amp you are going to use.  In my opinion, the Solo literally brings the desktop level performance to a portable system.  It gives you a clean, pristine sound that the iphone/ipod cannot and does not produce.  And if you use the Solo, it then doesn't matter too much which idevice you use because the Solo will reclock and reprocess the signal and the differences between iphone/ipod/itouch/nano become negligible. 
   
  As for selection of amps, and for iem and single ended use, I personally like, in order, the Pico Slim, then SR71b, then it is a toss up between the RX or the SR71a.  I like the Pico Slim for its beauty, size, volume control, and the quick or fast action sound character.  For the SR71b, even though in SE mode, it is still better than the 71a in terms of liviness, punchiness, bass response, sound stage etc.  But if you are choosing the 71b, I'll recommend to go the balance route, so much better.
   
  I do not agree with Ray when he said in the other thread that using ipod + Solo is garbage in garbage out.  I think ipod + Solo + SR71B is matching my desktop system that is over $3,000.00.  Hope that help.


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## uelover

Quote: 





jalo said:


> I do not agree with Ray when he said in the other thread that using ipod + Solo is garbage in garbage out.  I think ipod + Solo + SR71B is matching my desktop system that is over $3,000.00.  Hope that help.


 


 I thought that what Ray referred too was iPod + SR71B instead of iPod + Solo + SR71B?


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## Jalo

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I thought that what Ray referred too was iPod + SR71B instead of iPod + Solo + SR71B?


 

 This is what he said  "With those phones, you have to use a better source than iPod or *any portable Digital player*".  He was referring to any portable Digital players.  I specifically said to him that I do agree with just Ipod it may not be the best source, but there are a few great DAPs that could produce great sound like the Hifiman 801, colorfly, or ipod + Solo etc.  The point being not all portable digital players are bad for the 71b.  But you are right Ray was probably only referring to ipod alone.  He may not be aware of the Solo or other portable digital devices.


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## estreeter

I wonder how long it has been since Ray has heard an iPod with lossless files - I would have agreed with the 'garbage' line prior to the current Nano/Touch/iPhone. That said, of course the Solo will be a better source than the iPod by itself. Like anything, very few of us have the financial resources to be able to put the CLAS stack up against the HP-P1, but it would be interesting nonetheless.


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## elfary

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Correct. It's really only the Touch that has the bad output impedance. The 4 is under 1 and I believe the nano and shuttle are under 2.


 

   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> That's better than I though.  The classic is still (Was? I can't keep track of the damn versions.) pretty high though.


 

  
  http://sonove.angry.jp/ipodclassic6th.html
   
  There you have the MC297 Classic (aka the current model). 5 Ohms. It's the only flaw it might have (if you are using multdriver IEMs). The performance driving a 16Ohm regular load is just splendid (http://sonove.angry.jp/RMAA/iPodClassic6_nano6_iPhone4.htm)
   
  As for the current iPod Touch goes i'm finding it hard to nail down its output impedance (Z). Some claim is 2 Ohms, Markus Kraus thinks it's between 2 and 3 and there's a measurement that rates it as 7.2 Ohms  (http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-4g.htm). That high z would be the same z measured for the 2009 model (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/sansa-clip-measured.html)
   
  Anyway i think the current iPod Classic is a fine player. It just might color multidriver iems with wild impedance variations (e.g. SE530,TF10,JH13).
   
  I use it through the HP out at the office with my UM3x and it does sound quite good. When i plug it into the T3 i can hear it sounding with a tad more bass and air but that's it. It could hold very well on its own with the UM3x.It had way more problems with my SE530s where the 5kHz region was sucked because the impedance interaction (The SE530 is only 7.9 Ohms at 5 kHz).
   
  And about Apple the sad truth is that the best player around is the iPhone 4 (Sound, battery, ui, support and build quality wise) with an impressive z=0.9 Ohms


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## Canadian411

Quote: 





jalo said:


> This is what he said  "With those phones, you have to use a better source than iPod or *any portable Digital player*".  He was referring to any portable Digital players.  I specifically said to him that I do agree with just Ipod it may not be the best source, but there are a few great DAPs that could produce great sound like the Hifiman 801, colorfly, or ipod + Solo etc.  The point being not all portable digital players are bad for the 71b.  But you are right Ray was probably only referring to ipod alone.  He may not be aware of the Solo or other portable digital devices.


 

 I sent my sr71b back to Ray after hearing no differences with/without sr71b straight from iPhone 4 with ALO 18awg LOD cables.
  After reading few discussions here I realized that headphone amp doesn't really play huge role without the DAC. am I right ?
   
  So what is all the hypes about headphone amps being so great ?, more I read about the portable headphone amps the difference is like heaven and hell.  But to me no differences.
   
  I guess I have to buy DAC now to justify my sr71b. ?


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## Canadian411

Oh I mean I sent back my sr71b to Ray so he can examine if any defect with sr71b, but I am still keeping sr71b.


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## uelover

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> After reading few discussions here I realized that headphone amp doesn't really play huge role without the DAC. am I right ?
> 
> So what is all the hypes about headphone amps being so great ?, more I read about the portable headphone amps the difference is like heaven and hell.  But to me no differences.


 


  Amp alone will make a big difference but adding a DAC to it will greatly amplify that difference.


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## fdhfdy

I used to own hifiman hm-801 that almost did everything for me except the short battery life. After while I sold the hm-801 and started a fresh portable hifi journey just because I'd like to play with something new. The "solo"  is the first thing i'd consider. Although alo sells those two metal boxes as a bundle but seemed solo had gathered much more concerns than the amp. I may get the solo  then wait for meier's amp "2stepdance"


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## Canadian411

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Amp alone will make a big difference ...


 
   
  That is weird, to me adding sr71b didn't make any differences.
  I swap between lcd2 factory cable and ALO balanced cables, result = no differences.


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## Canadian411

Am I not an audiophile if I am able to hear the difference w/o headphone amp ?
   
  But I do hear differences between Sennheiser HD800, Denon AH-D7000, LCD2, Beyers DT990 and Grados.


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## b0wl1ng

The imod or diy mod is an option for you, the sound is comparable to the solo and the diy mod option gives you a far smaller footprint (pocket sized) even with a stepdance.
  Personally the last thing I would want to do is lug around a travel bag when I can get almost the same sonic quality with something pocket sized, if bag carrying is your bag, plus spending $600 more is not a problem then the solo would be a good purchase.
  Wait for the 2Stepdance though, released end of June I believe.


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## 182751

Wow, this is getting confusing fast. Thanks everyone for their input, it is greatly appreciated.
  But now it seems I have more options than answers.
   
  The Algorhythm Solo seems to be a firm yes, but as for the amp to drive it.
   
  ALO RX mkII
  RS SR71-A
  RS SR71-B
  Meier Audio 2StepDance
   
  New Source - iMod or DIY Mod.
   
  Given that I'm not going to change my IEM's to balanced as I used them in a Sennheiser Wireless kit for my bass. And I don't really want to be changing the cables between Mini and Balanced all the time. I'm leaning towards the CLAS and the SR-71A.
   
  Does anyone think I will be disappointed with this combination? Will get TWAG v2 LOD and Mini to Mini interconnects, recommend I get these through Ray?
   
  Thanks again guys for all your help in my journey to Audio Nirvana.


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## ianmedium

In that case now that you are considering the Stepdance I would very much recommend that! 
I love mine, it sounds wonderful with the standard battery and a giant killer with the external 15V energizer pack. For the money it is a huge bargain and Jan's customer service second to none!!


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## estreeter

Quote:  





> And about Apple the sad truth is that the best player around is the iPhone 4 (Sound, battery, ui, support and build quality wise) with an impressive z=0.9 Ohms


 

 That's largely accepted now, although it did raise a few hackles when the initial 'wow ! this phone sounds fantastic !' hype started to hit the forums with the earlier model. I was particularly miffed as I'd recently spent over 600 AUD on the X1060 (still think it has the best digital amp in a DAP/phone), but I got over it when I bought the 6G Nano. They just need to migrate that SQ to the Classic and they will have a guaranteed winner. 
   
  End of the day, even my lowly 2009 Touch sounds good from a LOD - not great, but much better than from the HP out and I'm happy to use it outdoors. Whether I would be willing to spend the kind of money needed for the Solo stack over something like the Anedio D1 for desktop use is a tough one.


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## shotgunshane

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> That's largely accepted now, although it did raise a few hackles when the initial 'wow ! this phone sounds fantastic !' hype started to hit the forums with the earlier model. I was particularly miffed as I'd recently spent over 600 AUD on the X1060 (still think it has the best digital amp in a DAP/phone), but I got over it when I bought the 6G Nano. They just need to migrate that SQ to the Classic and they will have a guaranteed winner.


 

 Rumor has it the Classic's days are numbered...


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## 182751

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> In that case now that you are considering the Stepdance I would very much recommend that!
> I love mine, it sounds wonderful with the standard battery and a giant killer with the external 15V energizer pack. For the money it is a huge bargain and Jan's customer service second to none!!


 

  
  Well I just sent an email to Ray and to Jan, asking for their advice. While I know they will both recommend their products, given they are the front runners at this stage. I'd be keen to see if they think their solution is best for what I'm looking for.


  Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Rumor has it the Classic's days are numbered...


 

 This would make me sad. haha. I was going to wait for the next generation of classic and hope that it brought iPhone 4 quality with it and then grab one and use my iPhone 4 in the interim.


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## uelover

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Well I just sent an email to Ray and to Jan, asking for their advice. While I know they will both recommend their products, given they are the front runners at this stage. I'd be keen to see if they think their solution is best for what I'm looking for.


 


  I will just have to warn (like many others before me) that Stepdance will sound extremely loud when paired with CLAS.
   
  It is the reason why I sold my Stepdance because I find it too loud even without CLAS. I cannot imagine how life would be when paired with CLAS.
   
  With headphones this combi is a winner, but not with custom iems.


----------



## ianmedium

uelover said:


> I will just have to warn (like many others before me) that Stepdance will sound extremely loud when paired with CLAS.
> 
> It is the reason why I sold my Stepdance because I find it too loud even without CLAS. I cannot imagine how life would be when paired with CLAS.
> 
> With headphones this combi is a winner, but not with custom iems.




That is a good point. I know cooper had problems with that.


----------



## 182751

Quote: 





uelover said:


> I will just have to warn (like many others before me) that Stepdance will sound extremely loud when paired with CLAS.
> 
> It is the reason why I sold my Stepdance because I find it too loud even without CLAS. I cannot imagine how life would be when paired with CLAS.
> 
> With headphones this combi is a winner, but not with custom iems.


 


   


  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 This could be a deal breaker, As i'll be mainly using my Custom IEM's and the only headphone's I (currently) own are the HD-25's which are relatively low impedance.
   
  Also, I've just been reading the thread on the Fostex HP-P1, is this potentially a contender? Add a TWAGv2 LOD and would this also be a good option? It does seem to tick all the right boxes, but doesn't seem to have anyone who's had much experience with it?


----------



## ianmedium

apparently there is not a lot of difference between the original stepdance and the new one other than battery life and the gain switch on the front. I have used it with UE Triple.fi10's and in quiet environments I barely have to turn the knob from the on position to get enough volume for my 47 year old hearing. My ER4S's on the other hand are harder to drive so take full advantage of the power the stepdance puts out. For your use though I would think it may be a little too powerful.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> This could be a deal breaker, As i'll be mainly using my Custom IEM's and the only headphone's I (currently) own are the HD-25's which are relatively low impedance.
> 
> Also, I've just been reading the thread on the Fostex HP-P1, is this potentially a contender? Add a TWAGv2 LOD and would this also be a good option? It does seem to tick all the right boxes, but doesn't seem to have anyone who's had much experience with it?


 

 You won't need LOD with either CLAS or Fostex.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Rumor has it the Classic's days are numbered...


 
   
  Said rumor has been doing the rounds for at least 3 years, to my knowledge, and not just within audio circles. The folk at Mac Buyers Guide seem perplexed that Apple continue to offer a relatively large range of DAPs, including one with a hard drive, when the world (!) has clearly embraced the smartphone as their portable entertainment device. I know - _sacrilege_ for those who want to carry big collections of lossless around - but its interesting the Apple perservered with the Classic when people the dedicated DAP manufacturers seem to have settled on Flash-only ranges. Personally, as someone who only needs a very basic phone, something like the current 64GB Touch would be a better fit for my needs than the ('pay a Telco every month') iPhone, but I hope they dont axe the Classic.


----------



## 182751

Quote: 





uelover said:


> You won't need LOD with either CLAS or Fostex.


 


  Good point, what I meant was iPod Dock to USB cable. eg. ALO audio USB to iPod cable
  Or is there not much difference with cable quality when using a USB cable?


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Good point, what I meant was iPod Dock to USB cable. eg. ALO audio USB to iPod cable
> Or is there not much difference with cable quality when using a USB cable?


 


  Yeah you out-rightly quoted twag v2 which is certainly not a USB cable.
   
  Hmm it is a very controversial topic to discuss USB cable for CLAS but it seems that many users are satisfied with the stock cable.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> I sent my sr71b back to Ray after hearing no differences with/without sr71b straight from iPhone 4 with ALO 18awg LOD cables.
> After reading few discussions here I realized that headphone amp doesn't really play huge role without the DAC. am I right ?
> 
> So what is all the hypes about headphone amps being so great ?, more I read about the portable headphone amps the difference is like heaven and hell.  But to me no differences.
> ...


 

 411, I've seen you comment on the "no differences" with/without SR71b.  How is that possible? and what are you comparing to when you are doing it without the SR71b?  Headphone out from your iphone4? I don't even think the iphone4 headphone out can drive your cans like the LCD2 and the 990/600ohm.  So how do you compare headphone out to SR71b out on those cans?  Something is not clear here.


----------



## MorbidToaster

A lot of people use a longer USB cable to make the iPod/Phone useable without directly being attached to the brick. 
   
  I haven't been convinced as to a USB cable making any difference in sound, but I'll be comparing my regular iPod USB cable to the TWag Silver coming with my recently purchased Solo (It was included in the price, not gonna turn it down ;D)
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> Yeah you out-rightly quoted twag v2 which is certainly not a USB cable.
> 
> Hmm it is a very controversial topic to discuss USB cable for CLAS but it seems that many users are satisfied with the stock cable.


----------



## 182751

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> A lot of people use a longer USB cable to make the iPod/Phone useable without directly being attached to the brick.
> 
> I haven't been convinced as to a USB cable making any difference in sound, but I'll be comparing my regular iPod USB cable to the TWag Silver coming with my recently purchased Solo (It was included in the price, not gonna turn it down ;D)


 



 As this was my original idea, I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of the setup when you get it. Especially around the differences of Long Standard cable vs. TWag USB cable.


----------



## MorbidToaster

After seeing it recently in the portarig thread it seemed like an excellent idea to me. iDevice in pocket, rig in my typical backpack, headphones from the bag as well. 
   
  We'll see, but I don't have much faith. I can understand analog sound being effected by cables, but 1s and 0s? I don't know. This will be my first experience in ABing cables though, so I'll have fun with it.
  
  Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> As this was my original idea, I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of the setup when you get it. Especially around the differences of Long Standard cable vs. TWag USB cable.


----------



## 182751

Ray has got back to me and said that if I have no intentions of going balanced he would highly recommend that I get the SR-71A. Given this is $200 cheaper I'm more inclined to agree with him, if he doesn't think there is much difference between the 2 (obviously aside from the balanced side of things) then this brings it all right back in line with the overall price of the other combo.
   
  So at least that narrows it down, slightly...
   
  Fostex HP-P1?
  RSA SR-71A + CLAS
  RX MkII + CLAS
   
  Will most likely wait until MorbidToaster get's that rig, and after I get some initial impressions from other SR-71, RX MkII and Possibly (If we can find someone with one) Fostex HP-P1.
   
  Thanks everyone for you help this far. It's really been appreciated, It's a lot of money we are talking about and getting the right advice will save me down the track. Thanks again!


----------



## MorbidToaster

I like the idea of the CLAS + Amp more than the HP-P1 because it simply brings more customization into it. You're tied to their amp with the HP-P1.
   
  I suppose we'll see if anyone takes the leap down the road though. I'm really excited to get my impressions going.
  
  Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Ray has got back to me and said that if I have no intentions of going balanced he would highly recommend that I get the SR-71A. Given this is $200 cheaper I'm more inclined to agree with him, if he doesn't think there is much difference between the 2 (obviously aside from the balanced side of things) then this brings it all right back in line with the overall price of the other combo.
> 
> So at least that narrows it down, slightly...
> 
> ...


----------



## estreeter

Forget the RX MkII - those of you who are already intent on spending this much money need to start looking at higher end desktop gear IMO.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
   
  Not cheap, but look at the pricetags on some of the kit project86 compares it to, including some very desirable headphone amps.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Forget the RX MkII - those of you who are already intent on spending this much money need to start looking at higher end desktop gear IMO.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
> 
> Not cheap, but look at the pricetags on some of the kit project86 compares it to, including some very desirable headphone amps.


 

 That's worth looking into.  They *shock, horror* actually provide measurements of their gear and show an actual understanding of the theory involved unlike some other "audiophile" brands.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Not a portable solution. Why would you buy these if it wasn't meant to be somewhat portable?
   
  I'm also waiting for the next Anedio release to consider a purchase (D1 is just missing a few things). I was going to get a W4S DAC-1 before my portable investment, and it's still what I'm shooting for as far as my next big purchase goes. 
   
  I went to a portable rig because I was going to be on the go much more soon. I assume that's what most of the people with rigs like this are going for.
  
  EDIT: The D1's second iteration will most likely be my dream DAC. I trust Project86 a lot now after taking his recommendation on the D100. Amazing DAC. Regret selling mine.
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Forget the RX MkII - those of you who are already intent on spending this much money need to start looking at higher end desktop gear IMO.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
> 
> Not cheap, but look at the pricetags on some of the kit project86 compares it to, including some very desirable headphone amps.


----------



## 182751

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Forget the RX MkII - those of you who are already intent on spending this much money need to start looking at higher end desktop gear IMO.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/528473/review-anedio-d1-dac-my-new-reference-dac
> 
> Not cheap, but look at the pricetags on some of the kit project86 compares it to, including some very desirable headphone amps.


 

 Will definitely start looking at some of the desktop stuff once I've got my portable gear set-up. I'm on the go a lot and thus the investment in portable gear. Currently I spent 3 hours a day on Public Transport, so escaping to a High-Fidelity world is brilliant.
   
  Thanks for the link, will read through it when I get a moment


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Not a portable solution. Why would you buy these if it wasn't meant to be somewhat portable?
> 
> I'm also waiting for the next Anedio release to consider a purchase (D1 is just missing a few things). I was going to get a W4S DAC-1 before my portable investment, and it's still what I'm shooting for as far as my next big purchase goes.
> 
> ...


 

 My point is that you are starting to spend serious money on 'portable' kit that, theoretically, should mate nicely with desktop gear. Sure, you can use any old LOD-equipped iPod with the D1, but the Solo would have to be a considerable improvement on that as a source.


----------



## elfary

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Rumor has it the Classic's days are numbered...


 


  I'm not that sure. A few weeks back i stumbled into an article that said the Classic sales were still quite strong. It seems that there is many people like me that really likes the idea of bringing out their whole discography with out the need of any cloud or wireless connection going on. And Toshiba rolled out new 220gb hdd's this winter so i don't rule out a capacity upgrade. Actually i see it more feasable than a 128Gb iPod Touch or a 64 Gb iPhone. Unfortunately SSD are still very expensive. And even the iPad 2 is still stagnated at the doomed 64 figure.
   
  As of today i think that for dynamic iems the Classic is as strong as an iPhone 4. If you are to drive multdriver iems that's when the iPhone pulls the lead because of its low output impedance. In spite of that if you avoid multidrivers with wild impedance swings (SE530,JH13,TF10) your Classic hp out can do a very respectable job.
   
  I


----------



## fdhfdy

uelover, any recommendation about little amps for earbuds? I need one for my pk1 and seens mx980.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> I will just have to warn (like many others before me) that Stepdance will sound extremely loud when paired with CLAS.
> 
> It is the reason why I sold my Stepdance because I find it too loud even without CLAS. I cannot imagine how life would be when paired with CLAS.
> 
> With headphones this combi is a winner, but not with custom iems.


----------



## pekingduck

The 2Stepdance has an extra 6dB attenuation which should work well with IEMs.
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> I will just have to warn (like many others before me) that Stepdance will sound extremely loud when paired with CLAS.
> 
> It is the reason why I sold my Stepdance because I find it too loud even without CLAS. I cannot imagine how life would be when paired with CLAS.
> 
> With headphones this combi is a winner, but not with custom iems.


----------



## shotgunshane

elfary said:


> I'm not that sure. A few weeks back i stumbled into an article that said the Classic sales were still quite strong. It seems that there is many people like me that really likes the idea of bringing out their whole discography with out the need of any cloud or wireless connection going on. And Toshiba rolled out new 220gb hdd's this winter so i don't rule out a capacity upgrade. Actually i see it more feasable than a 128Gb iPod Touch or a 64 Gb iPhone. Unfortunately SSD are still very expensive. And even the iPad 2 is still stagnated at the doomed 64 figure.
> 
> As of today i think that for dynamic iems the Classic is as strong as an iPhone 4. If you are to drive multdriver iems that's when the iPhone pulls the lead because of its low output impedance. In spite of that if you avoid multidrivers with wild impedance swings (SE530,JH13,TF10) your Classic hp out can do a very respectable job.
> 
> I




It's all speculation but the latest rumors are b/c iOS 5 beta no longer uses the iPod name for the music player. It's called music. iPod sales are down 14% and I would expect the click wheel to be retired soon in favor of the touch screens. But I agree that its great to have the capacity for your whole collection. 
http://m.gizmodo.com/5810067/apple-starts-to-wind-down-the-ipod-brand


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





fdhfdy said:


> uelover, any recommendation about little amps for earbuds? I need one for my pk1 and seens mx980.


 

 I have no experience with those two earbuds so I can't say anything but CLAS + Amp for those two is a little of an overkill =)
   
  Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> The 2Stepdance has an extra 6dB attenuation which should work well with IEMs.


 

 Nice to hear that. I emailed Jan one month ago asking if there would be additional attenuation for 2Stepdance but he never got back to me so I went ahead for Pico Slim instead. No regret nonetheless.


----------



## fdhfdy

I sold the touch and got a ipod classic. I like the way as it is.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





fdhfdy said:


> I sold the touch and got a ipod classic. I like the way as it is.


 

 If we do get a new Classic I'd want it to be designed like the iPhone 4. The one thing I HATE about iPods is the silver back. Mine go straight into a case when I get them, and it still ends up with a tiny scratch somehow. 
   
  We we got a classic with the slightly more boxy, glass back, glass front (and maybe in different colors). Oh man. I'd be all over that. Same exact click wheel design, but a little more elegant. 
   


  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> My point is that you are starting to spend serious money on 'portable' kit that, theoretically, should mate nicely with desktop gear. Sure, you can use any old LOD-equipped iPod with the D1, but the Solo would have to be a considerable improvement on that as a source.


 
  Oh I'll agree on that. Another reason I wanted the CLAS is because it's a transport. I was planning on tracking down an Onkyo transport for my home rig later on, but this takes care of that and adds nicely to my portable rig. Hoping to get my good DAC by the end of the year.


----------



## caracara08

just wondering, is this CLAS setup noticeably better than iMods and such?


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


caracara08 said:


> just wondering, is this CLAS setup noticeably better than iMods and such?


 

 It is for me.  I have 4G and 5.5G iMods that I use interchangeably with RSA P-51 or Shadow or the Pico Slim and the CLAS with the 7g Classic and Pico Slim brings more dimensions to the music in terms of clearer highs and lows, better instrument placement and wider, rounder soundstage, to name but a few.  Of course, it could be the 7G Classic that does all that, but I doubt it!


----------



## fdhfdy

My ever owned hm801 out performed the imod without a doubt. The only pity for the set is it doesn't have an optical out or it can be a good quality transport for home use.  I am curious about the solo + amp vs hm801 though.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> Quote:
> 
> It is for me.  I have 4G and 5.5G iMods that I use interchangeably with RSA P-51 or Shadow or the Pico Slim and the CLAS with the 7g Classic and Pico Slim brings more dimensions to the music in terms of clearer highs and lows, better instrument placement and wider, rounder soundstage, to name but a few.  Of course, it could be the 7G Classic that does all that, but I doubt it!


 

 I have almost all your gears except the imods.  When I bought the Nano 6g in January, it was the best sounding ipod produced so far and initially I enjoyed the Nano 6 paired with my pico slim and enjoyed it quite a bit.  But after I tried to put the CLAS in the mix a few times and going back to w/o is like going from hifi to mifi.  There is a very clear quality change when you add the CLAS in the mixed.  The sound is just cleaner, more natural, neither too bright nor too warm, right where I wanted it to be.  I credit the improvement to the high quality reclocking and reprocessing of the master clock that output the cleanest signal for the Dac to use.  It doesn't matter if you use the coax out or the analogue out, the improvement is there already.  That is why I think the bulk of the work is done prior to the build in Dac (the internal Dac is very nice nonetheless).  I just wish they will come out with a Coax only version and reduce the size by half and that will be very nice.


----------



## fdhfdy

I am also instersted in pico slim. Does it take so long from order to delivery?
  
  Quote: 





uelover said:


> I have no experience with those two earbuds so I can't say anything but CLAS + Amp for those two is a little of an overkill =)
> 
> 
> Nice to hear that. I emailed Jan one month ago asking if there would be additional attenuation for 2Stepdance but he never got back to me so I went ahead for Pico Slim instead. No regret nonetheless.


----------



## bcasey25raptor

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  the day they retire the click wheel is the day they lose me as a customer.


----------



## MorbidToaster

So I got it all put together and what not...and all I have to say is woooooooooooooooow...
   
  Never thought I'd hear sound like this from a portable rig. I haven't started my A/Bing of different components and what not, but it powers the HE 500 to well past listenable levels...and makes them sound excellent.
   
  This was a good investment...


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> So I got it all put together and what not...and all I have to say is woooooooooooooooow...
> 
> Never thought I'd hear sound like this from a portable rig. I haven't started my A/Bing of different components and what not, but it powers the HE 500 to well past listenable levels...and makes them sound excellent.
> 
> This was a good investment...


 

 So what is it that you got it put altogether?


----------



## MorbidToaster

An iPod Classic...Solo...and mk2. With twag silver cables.
  
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> So what is it that you got it put altogether?


----------



## FreeBlues

A couple observations.  First, the CLAS is perhaps the most significant improvement in portable audio in many years.  The difference is huge.  I changed from an iMod to the CLAS and the improvement was stupendous.  I could not now ever be without my CLAS.  (Sonics aside, get a Nano and CLAS and the size/weight of your rig shrinks by about half.)
   
  Amps are tricky with this combo, however.  I use custom IEM's (UE-11) and found that with the CLAS volume became a serious issue.  The CLAS seems to send a much hotter signal to the amp, meaning some amps were waaaayy too loud, even with the volume dial set to the lowest possible level.
   
  Specifically, the StepDance was 'almost' too loud, some songs would play fine, others were just too loud for me.  Jan Meier said he could easily lower the gain, and I'd imagine when ordering new your could (should) specify this change, so that may fix that problem.  Volume aside though, I personally did not care for the StepDance, it sounded bloated and tubby to me.
   
  I loved the sound from Justin Audio's uHA-120, but it was impossibly loud.  (A new, lower gain version is in the works, I have high hopes.)
   
  In the pre-CLAS days I owned the original Rx amp, it did not suit me at all!  Sterile, bright, almost shrill, unnaturally etched.  I don't know if the Mk II version sounds much different, but I cannot recommend it.
   
  I really liked the SR-71A (pre-CLAS), but it is sort of a brick compared to some of the newer offerings.  I also thought it lacked in the higher frequencies and was not as detailed as I prefer.  Depends on your music, it is a lot of fun in a warm, semi-colored kind of way.
   
  Right now I own and am much enjoying the Arrow (3g).  Super small and slim, nice set of options to customize your personal sound, battery that lasts forever.  The gain is manageable with the CLAS.  I'll admit my expectations were pretty low with this amp, but it significantly outperformed the StepDance.  I have the new Lisa L3 on order and a low gain version of the uHA-120 somewhere in transit, but I gotta say, I'm hard pressed to imagine how much better either of these two super amps will be compared to the Arrow.  Stated differently, the combination of the CLAS and Arrow is by far the best I've personally ever heard, so good that I'm somewhat inclined to stop here.  It's possible the newer, more expensive and larger amps will sound better, but I'm so satisfied right now I wonder why try to fix something that isn't broken.


----------



## ianmedium

I am looking forward to your impressions on the L3. I must admit my experience with the stepdance is nothing like yours though, In fact I find it an almost neutral conduit for the music. Having said that. I think it might be a headphone thing.

With my UE triple.fi10's I get that slightly bloated feeling you mention, too much bass but with my LCD2's and ETY ER4S the presentation is all but perfect, right amounts of everything. I am though seriously considering the L3 as it keeps floating into my mind and I usually don't regret when that happens (well, my bank balance does!) Are your UE's similar in sound signature to the non custom ones?

Having said all of that I don't think the Stepdance is the best amp for low impedance phones though as you say Jan can fix that!


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> So I guess for my next question would be: ALO RX mkII vs. SR-71?
> and would there be any advantage in getting the SR-71B even though I'm only going to be using singled ended interconnects?
> 
> There would have to be a fairly good case for the SR-71 to make it appealing as the price difference once I include shipping from 2 separate US companies to Aus will be pretty hefty.
> ...


 

 1.  I doubt anyone is going to claim that the RXII offers the same SQ as or better SQ than the Blackbirds.
  2.  Possibly the only advantage to the 71B over the 71A in single ended only mode is the fact that the 71B battery is INTERNALLY rechargeable.  While that's a *significant *advantage in convenience, some have said that it doesn't sound as good as the 71A in SE mode.
  3.  You can save money by sourcing everything other than the Solo away from ALO.  Many would say that their cables are overpriced (and some would say that of the RXII amp as well).
   
  If you're not ready to pay the (literal and figurative) freight for the RSA amp solution you may wish to consider the following alternative:
   
  CLAS from ALO (because you have no alternative): US$579 + shipping
  iBasso P4 & iBasso cables: approx US$315 (you'd have to ask them to make you a USB-out Dock)
   
  My guess is that the iBasso will sound at least as good as the all ALO setup, cost much less, allow you to roll op-amps in the amp for different sound sigs, and much of your shipping would be from China.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





newakgguy said:


> 1.  I doubt anyone is going to claim that the RXII offers the same SQ as or better SQ than the Blackbirds.
> 2.  Possibly the only advantage to the 71B over the 71A in single ended only mode is the fact that the 71B battery is INTERNALLY rechargeable.  While that's a *significant *advantage in convenience, some have said that it doesn't sound as good as the 71A in SE mode.
> 3.  You can save money by sourcing everything other than the Solo away from ALO.  Many would say that their cables are overpriced (and some would say that of the RXII amp as well).
> 
> ...


 


  not bad.


----------



## SowonAoD

And you can ship a fostex HP - P1 from japan, too. I can say it's the least bulky option.


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





sowonaod said:


> And you can ship a fostex HP - P1 from japan, too. I can say it's the least bulky option.


 

 True, and at JPY65,000 that would equate to around US$800 (Helicopter Ben & Co please take a bow for the destruction of our purchasing power) making it even cheaper than the CLAS + iBasso option.  You'd be taking a gamble on the amp as there have been no consistent reports on HPP1 SQ yet around here, but the upside would be that you get a cheapish "one box" solution and in the worst case you'd have to add another amp, and you'd still likely be cheaper than the ALO setup with the additional flexibility of being able to go with a source plus 1 or 2 box rig at your whim.  I'm not going to take that route though because I know that the HPP1 amp's not going to work for me (need more power).


----------



## 182751

Quote: 





newakgguy said:


> 1.  I doubt anyone is going to claim that the RXII offers the same SQ as or better SQ than the Blackbirds.
> 2.  Possibly the only advantage to the 71B over the 71A in single ended only mode is the fact that the 71B battery is INTERNALLY rechargeable.  While that's a *significant *advantage in convenience, some have said that it doesn't sound as good as the 71A in SE mode.
> 3.  You can save money by sourcing everything other than the Solo away from ALO.  Many would say that their cables are overpriced (and some would say that of the RXII amp as well).
> 
> ...


 

 You mentioned that the cable from ALO are over priced for what they are. I've noticed Ray offers some cable (mini to mini) for $125 is this a good price and are these good cables?


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Aces,
   
  Ray does offer interconnect, but I don't know anything about it, and haven't read much (if anything) from others posting around here, but that's likely because I haven't really looked.  Do a search on them and see what comes up.  Were I betting, I'd bet that there's no significant SQ difference between RSA's cable and ALO's.  I do know that RSA makes great amps.  I'm very happy with my Hornet.
   
  I am one of those guys who believes that upgrading your cables makes a difference, but I also believe that there's a great deal of cable chicanery out there for those with loose wallets.  For portable audio I use Moon Audio headphone cable and iBasso interconnects.  The iBasso CB04/05 interconnect (like their amps) is the best value at $26 each.  I have never found that upgrading digital or power cables has made a difference.


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## ianmedium

Ibasso are great great budget amps and that is what they are good at but they do not compare to amps like stepdnace/RSA or ALO. ALO cables are not overpriced.I found the upgrade with their cable to be very good value, the cable made a considerable difference to the sound quality I found and build quality was excellent. Ken's service and customer care in my experience also was first rate.

I would not even be putting anything below RSA/Stepdance/ALO or Lisa III into the equation if you are using the CLAS as it's sound quality really deserves a first rate amp. One of the reviewers I have come to trust the most on this forum is skylab. he writes like a pro audio journalist not someone who has only heard a few items and declares them to be the best! Check his amp review out, it lead me to my choice and I could not be happier. The only thing I would replace my stepdance with is the L3 or Blackbird 71b and as I have no interest going balanced it would probably be the L3!


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## caracara08

the way thie CLAS is being spken about, i wish i could try it out with my sr71b but i cant afford it.  anyone else have it set up with the 71b? any ohter comparisons?


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## travisg

I have owned the CLAS setup and the Hifiman 801. I prefer the size and sound of the 801.


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## 182751

Well after much thought and reading through all of your comments and various links to reviews, I've decided that I should jump in with 2 feet.
   
  I'm putting in an order for:
  The CLAS,
  an RSA SR-71B,
  1 Balanced cable from Moon Audio for my IEM's
  and 1 Mini to Balanced cable from Moon Audio (Is this correct? To go from my CLAS to the SR-71B, this part I wasn't sure about).
   
  So while I was originally worried about paying for shipping twice, I'm now paying 3 times... haha Well I knew it was going to be an expensive venture when I first purchased the IEM's. Now let's just hope that this all sound as good as I hope it will. Initially source will be an iPhone 4, and i'll look into sources once my wallet recovers from this endevour.
   
  Thanks all for you help so far, and i'll definitely post my impressions as everything arrives and settles in.


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## estreeter

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> One of the reviewers I have come to trust the most on this forum is skylab. he writes like a pro audio journalist not someone who has only heard a few items and declares them to be the best!


 

 You'll pay for that, Ian.


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## 182751

Just before I make a purchase, Moon Audio or Whiplash Audio? Is there much difference between the 2?


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## ianmedium

estreeter said:


> You'll pay for that, Ian.




Oh don't I know it


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## ianmedium

ianmedium said:


> estreeter said:
> 
> 
> > You'll pay for that, Ian.
> ...




BTW, Sad news today for all of us E street fans.


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## estreeter

Ian, we need you to take one for the team, here - CLAS into big single-ended amp (*Stepdance2 vs L3 vs AHA-120)*.  Hell, you might as well throw the Anedio D1 in to give us an idea of how well that lot measures up to a desktop rig


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## estreeter

> BTW, Sad news today for all of us E street fans.


 
  For those who are wondering:
   
  http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/e-street-bands-clarence-clemons-dies-at-69-20110618
   
  Sad news, indeed - two gone from the original lineup. RIP.


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## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Ibasso are great great budget amps and that is what they are good at but they do not compare to amps like stepdnace/RSA or ALO. ALO cables are not overpriced.I found the upgrade with their cable to be very good value, the cable made a considerable difference to the sound quality I found and build quality was excellent. Ken's service and customer care in my experience also was first rate.
> 
> I would not even be putting anything below RSA/Stepdance/ALO or Lisa III into the equation if you are using the CLAS as it's sound quality really deserves a first rate amp. One of the reviewers I have come to trust the most on this forum is skylab. he writes like a pro audio journalist not someone who has only heard a few items and declares them to be the best! Check his amp review out, it lead me to my choice and I could not be happier. The only thing I would replace my stepdance with is the L3 or Blackbird 71b and as I have no interest going balanced it would probably be the L3!


 
   
  I hear you on part of this ianmedium (I am not as convinced on ALO price v. quality as you), and I'm certainly not saying that iBasso is completely on par with Meier and RSA across the ranges *but...*
   
  After listening to my Hornet and Heron back to back today I gotta say the more recent iBasso efforts are *pretty darn close* to RSA SQ and likely much better than the older amps which skylab reviewed.  The Hornet is slightly better overall, but it's not uniformly better.  While the Hornet has much better drive capability, is quieter, has more bass impact and better bass definition, the Heron has a lusher midrange and better PRAT.  All in all I'd say that the RSA Hornet is more different from the iBasso Heron than it is qualitatively better.  I really enjoy them both equally with my IEMs, and I'm using a stock iBasso setup.
   
  It might be cheap and Chinese, but they're not Fiio (just good budget stuff) so don't short the brand, they're bringing a ton of value to the _*upper*_ end of this market.  I suppose I'll find out once I get my money straight enough to pick up a CLAS, but after today's listening I have no doubt that my iBasso will do it justice.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Well after much thought and reading through all of your comments and various links to reviews, I've decided that I should jump in with 2 feet.
> 
> I'm putting in an order for:
> The CLAS,
> ...


 

 Acesi7,  you got it wrong here.  Going from CLAS to 71b you will need a mini to mini.  The CLAS has two outputs, one is a SPDIF Coax digital out (which bypass the CLAS internal Wolfson DAC, this is for those who wants to use their own DAC and in this case the CLAS will act as a digital transport and reclock all incoming signals).  The other output is a analogue out (here you are using the CLAS internal DAC) which you can connect to an external amp like the 71b.  But this is a SE to SE and mini to mini connection.  If you want all balance processing from Ipod to headphone, you will need to add a balance DAC in the chain after the CLAS.  Because the CLAS doesn't out analogue balance signal to external amps.  Hope I made it clear enough.


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## 182751

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Acesi7,  you got it wrong here.  Going from CLAS to 71b you will need a mini to mini.  The CLAS has two outputs, one is a SPDIF Coax digital out (which bypass the CLAS internal Wolfson DAC, this is for those who wants to use their own DAC and in this case the CLAS will act as a digital transport and reclock all incoming signals).  The other output is a analogue out (here you are using the CLAS internal DAC) which you can connect to an external amp like the 71b.  But this is a SE to SE and mini to mini connection.  If you want all balance processing from Ipod to headphone, you will need to add a balance DAC in the chain after the CLAS.  Because the CLAS doesn't out analogue balance signal to external amps.  Hope I made it clear enough.


 

 Crystal clear, Also the guys over at Whiplash helped me understand what was going on.
  At this stage I've gone with a Mini to Mini and using the SR-71B's internals to convert to a balanced signal and got a balanced cable from the SR-71B to the IEM's. I don't know that I will add another unit to this rig and it's already on the border of being portable given it's 3 units. 
  But time will tell I suppose, will probably get the bug in a while and purchase one to compare. But at this stage I'm happy with what I've selected (on paper, still waiting for it all to arrive).
   
  Thanks again for your help, everyone here has been more than helpful and instrumental in assisting me with my selection!
   
  I'll try to give back with my first impressions when I get all the gear and test it all out with and without certain bits and document the differences.


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## MorbidToaster

Trying to get a pair of HD 25-13 IIs to go with this new rig. It sounds amazing, but the HE 500 aren't the most portable friendly can ever, and my Klipsch S4s aren't going to cut it with a rig like this. 
   
  I wasn't aware that a 600 Ohm version of one of my favorite headphones (signature wise) existed. It's turned out to be a pain to find (as it's not available easily in the US at all). 
   
  Anyway, once I find a pair that makes it to my doorstep we'll see what this rig can really do for me.


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## 182751

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Trying to get a pair of HD 25-13 IIs to go with this new rig. It sounds amazing, but the HE 500 aren't the most portable friendly can ever, and my Klipsch S4s aren't going to cut it with a rig like this.
> 
> I wasn't aware that a 600 Ohm version of one of my favorite headphones (signature wise) existed. It's turned out to be a pain to find (as it's not available easily in the US at all).
> 
> Anyway, once I find a pair that makes it to my doorstep we'll see what this rig can really do for me.


 

 Very good to know, I'll be using some HD-25's with my rig also once I get it. Have you been able to do any A/B comparisons between USB to iPod cables?


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## MorbidToaster

Not yet. I started to, but I've been pulling crazy shifts lately. I have more of tomorrow off, so I'll get back to you on that sometime tomorrow. 
   
  I'll swap between cables with the HE 500 and HD 598. 
   
  Quote: 





acesi7 said:


> Very good to know, I'll be using some HD-25's with my rig also once I get it. Have you been able to do any A/B comparisons between USB to iPod cables?


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## 182751

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Not yet. I started to, but I've been pulling crazy shifts lately. I have more of tomorrow off, so I'll get back to you on that sometime tomorrow.
> 
> I'll swap between cables with the HE 500 and HD 598.


 


  Thanks, I am speaking to Craig from Whiplash audio now about his TWagv2 USB to iPod cables, so will be very interested to see if you notice much difference. He mentioned that using the same type of cable throughout the system makes a marked difference. And one 'lesser' quality cable can have a negative effect on the others in the system, which all makes sense. But i'm with you on the 0's and 1's. How would cable quality effect that?


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## MorbidToaster

After A/Bing with the HD 598 (will do the HE 500 later if you want) and the Solo + Mk 2 combo...I hear no difference between my custom all silver Twag USB, and the 3' USB cable included with the Solo.
   
  I used 2 songs that weren't my usual listening, because EDM isn't the best for all round testing (considering soundstage almost doesn't exist within the genre). I did use 2 I know very well though.
   
  Andrea Bocelli & Sarah Brightman - Con Te Partiro
  - (Slow, male & female vocals that cover the entire spectrum, soft classical feel)
   
  Nightwish - Wishmaster
  - (Fast metal stuff, lots going on in the sound to see if one or the other got 'muddy', more female vocals)
   
  Tests were done with closed eyes and an open mind. I wanted to believe.
   
  Just as I thought, 1s and 0s. I can understand analog cables making a difference, but I've never heard a difference between digital cables, and didn't here either. This isn't say custom tooled cables are bad. I think I'll always get them when I settle on something because they get me exactly what I want, rather than 'dealing with' stock lengths, terminations, etc. Just won't pay a fortune for them.


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## Somnambulist

Quote: 





travisg said:


> I have owned the CLAS setup and the Hifiman 801. I prefer the size and sound of the 801.


 

 RE the sound, anything specific you can elaborate on?


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## 182751

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> After A/Bing with the HD 598 (will do the HE 500 later if you want) and the Solo + Mk 2 combo...I hear no difference between my custom all silver Twag USB, and the 3' USB cable included with the Solo.
> 
> I used 2 songs that weren't my usual listening, because EDM isn't the best for all round testing (considering soundstage almost doesn't exist within the genre). I did use 2 I know very well though.
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks for taking the time out to do those tests mate, I appreciate it. Nightwish, good choice in music also 
   
  Looks like i've got a bit of thinking to do. Will all depend on how much Whiplash want to charge for the cable I suppose. If it's not too expensive then for the same of 'completing the set' I might get it, but if it's expensive, then I'll pass.
   
  Really can't wait to hear all of this gear in action. Feels like I've been talking about it for ages!


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## MorbidToaster

acesi7 said:


> Thanks for taking the time out to do those tests mate, I appreciate it. Nightwish, good choice in music also
> 
> Looks like i've got a bit of thinking to do. Will all depend on how much Whiplash want to charge for the cable I suppose. If it's not too expensive then for the same of 'completing the set' I might get it, but if it's expensive, then I'll pass.
> 
> Really can't wait to hear all of this gear in action. Feels like I've been talking about it for ages!




I'd suggest looking into maybe some of their cheaper options. As I said, I didn't hear a difference, but understand wanting the same cable throughout, and the proper lengths. I imagine they have cheaper options than mine that would be more resonable.

Glad you liked the choices in music.


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## 182751

SR-71B will arrive on Monday(sunday for you most of you guys) . Just got notification that it touched town in Oz and has cleared customs. Very fast shipping, sent Ray the cash and was on a plane headed this way next day. Much Kudos...


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## 182751

Update: Arrived today! Just got the delivery notice. Can't wait to get this thing going. Will post some picture when I get back.
  Amazing service from Ray Samuels. I ordered them on the 21st, and they arrive at my door on the 24th. In Australia. Honestly can't ask for more than that!


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## chewy45

Damn this hobby is expensive.  Gonna have to sell some gear.


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## estreeter

Quote: 





chewy45 said:


> Damn this hobby is expensive.  Gonna have to sell some gear.


 


_PC > Foobar 2000 > Fiio E7/E9 > Denon AH-D2000_
_Sansa Fuze > L6 LOD > Fiio E11 > Sennheiser HD 25-1 ii or Klipsch Image X5_
   
  Based on your sig, I think you need to substitute 'organs' for 'gear'.


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## chewy45

Quote: 





chewy45 said:


> Damn this hobby is expensive.  Gonna have to sell some gear.


 


  And apparently come up with some more cash and some organs.  I do have 2 working kidneys...lol


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## holdincourt

This thread has helped me a lot!


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