# Violectric DHA V590 DAC/AMP - Blue Velvet



## Fegefeuer (Nov 23, 2020)

*November 23th Update*: power specs
*May 25th Update*: brochure attached, impedance/power table posted
*May 24th Update*: preorder option now available for CONUS

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V590-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p202322694























The Violectric *DHA V590* DAC/AMP starts the new generation for Violectric and introduces a *new form factor* that is much bigger than the previous generation.

Every big device will be featuring this case or dimensions, meaning the V280 and V281 successors will also come in the same shape as we can see here, of course with different front panels as nobody likes to press buttons that do nothing, except a few DJs. In the same vein of course later DACs and various digital and analogue devices.

There will be a smaller version of this case featuring entry models of the new Violectric line. The RS series for instance (as far as I know) will reappear in the new shape, now under the Violectric brand. Generally the lineup will be much bigger and more diverse.

Anyway, the V590 is a *fully fledged DAC/AMP*, no part of it is an addon or a "bonus". The pictures I have here are of a prototype.

There will be small changes on the real thing. A dedicated Mute LED  as can be seen on the V281 front - will be introduced. There will also be some other changes to the front panel. The glossy outlines for the push buttons (except the power switch ) will disappear.

Every V590 will come with a *remote*, the *only* optional *upgrade* will be the *volume control*:

choose between default (*RK27 motorized*) and the same volume control of the US4+ with *256 step reed relay control* (+500€)


Let's take a look at some pictures:



 

 

 

 

 

 





*DIMENSIONS*

(WxHxD) 290mmx80mm (90 with feet)x250 mm
Front 8 mm Aluminium sanded, brushed, black anodized, knobs with a with plastic inlay
case up to 12 mm strong aluminium, brushed and anodized


*INPUTS*

3 analogue inputs: 2 x RCA, 1 x XLR
4 digital inputs: optical, coaxial, AES balanced, USB
USB allows for up to 384 kHz PCM and 512 x DSD


*DAC*

2 x 32 Bit AK4490 per channel
New 32-bit Resampler with a dynamic range of up to 180 dB, whoever that needs, resampling settings akin to the V850

*POWER *and *NOISE

8 dB less noise than the V281*
2 x 15 Watt PSU, switchable between 115 and 230V.
gain factor 0 dB unbalanced, 6 dB balanced
extended pre-gain settings via DIP switches: -18, -12, -6, 0, +6, +12, +18 dB, same for the line out
*pre and post fader* now work *via *the push of a *button *on the back and not via software control.
*max output voltage* (balanced output, both channels driven): *32 Volt* = 1,8 Watts@600 Ohm
*maximum power*(balanced output, both channels driven): *5 Watt@50 Ohm*
Noise -100 dB / THD+N – 102 dB
*output impedance*  < 0,2 Ohm
damping factor > 250

*POWER*


HP ImpedanceUa (dBu)Ua (V)Pa (mW)60028,721,174030028,620,9145010028,520,743005027,317,964003224,012,347001617,35,72000812,33,2130046,81,7700


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## RobertSM

This is exciting! I do have a few questions.

1. Where does DHA V590 fit in with this new lineup? Mid level? Top of the line?

2. Do you have a ball-park suggested pricing for DHA V590? I'm personally wondering as to what I should expect to pay.

3. Understanding that these pictures are of a prototype. Also aware that we in a global crisis. Any idea when this product will be made available to the public?

Thanks


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## Fegefeuer

1. Right now it's the TOTL DAC/AMP for Violectric, of course you never know in the future but you know that Fried never replaces models very soon. It's already quite a step from V281+V850 and yet cheaper at the same time. Also there will be separate devices like the V281 successor and of course a standalone DAC.

2. It should be 3200€ with the motorized ALPS RK27.

3. Fried posted on another forum that they plan to ship starting from June 2020.


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## gimmeheadroom

Nice scoop @Fegefeuer


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## Arniesb

Fegefeuer said:


> 1. Right now it's the TOTL DAC/AMP for Violectric, of course you never know in the future but you know that Fried never replaces models very soon. It's already quite a step from V281+V850 and yet cheaper at the same time. Also there will be separate devices like the V281 successor and of course a standalone DAC.
> 
> 2. It should be 3200€ with the motorized ALPS RK27.
> 
> 3. Fried posted on another forum that they plan to ship starting from June 2020.


Same amp circuitry?


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## m-i-c-k-e-y

Will this be an indication that the upcoming Niimbus DAC is 4490 NOT 4499 nor 4497?


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## Fegefeuer

Not at all. US8+ just has to wait for now. It should still be at least 4499. 

The amp inside the V590 is Niimbus tech trickle down, it's no V281 or V280.


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## Relaxasaurus

Looks breathtaking, modern yet tastefully done.

Question I have is why go with the DAC chip that's 5+ years old vs its upgrades, cost? My original ADI-2 has the same chip (4490) and it sounds great, just wondering why an updated one wasn't chosen.


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## Fegefeuer

Implementation and analog side matters much much more than the chip. Else all the Meme DACs with AK4499 would be the bomb. Take a look at the Convert-2 and its use of an AD1955. That chip is almost ancient yet its implementation is superb.


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> Not at all. US8+ just has to wait for now. It should still be at least 4499.
> 
> The amp inside the V590 is Niimbus tech trickle down, it's no V281 or V280.


I think the biggest selling point for the next gen of Violectric is the trickle-down tech from Niimbus. This approach to marketing works. Look at Aeon 2 ( basically tricke-down tech from Ether 2; and seemingly selling very well).

Have not heard Niimbus yet but I can believe the next gen of Violectric will sound even better. Can’t wait to see and hear them.


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## AudioPowerHead

Noticed the digital inputs has both PCM and DSD on the V590.From past threads, I thought Fried was very against DSD ? Perhaps there is a change of mind now


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## jokostyle

AudioPowerHead said:


> Noticed the digital inputs has both PCM and DSD on the V590.From past threads,* I thought Fried was very against DSD* ? Perhaps there is a change of mind now



You're right. :


			
				Fried Reim  said:
			
		

> Der DAC V850 bietet einstellbares Resampling und Dual-Mono Wandler (2 x PCM 1795).
> Er hat auch einen USB Eingang der jedoch kein DSD kann, weil ich ein bekennender DSD Hasser bin ...


And about the V590 features :


			
				Fried Reim  said:
			
		

> - der USB kann PCM bis 384 kHz und 512 x DSD - ja, ich bin über meinen Schatten gesprungen ...


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## AudioPowerHead (Apr 18, 2020)

Clever move if Fried is going to group RS series under Violectric. Always thought their RS range is excellent value-for-money but potential somewhat limited under existing LP brand. Looks like Violectric range will expand for sure and that is a good thing.


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## AudioPowerHead

jokostyle said:


> You're right. :
> 
> And about the V590 features :


Thanks for sharing this. I admire Fried’s honesty and pragmatism. He is honest and open about his earlier stance against DSD and now he is pragmatic that in the audio world, there is still a minority of audiophiles who need DSD capabilities in their set-up. To enable the Violectric brand to expand its brand footprint and compete against competition, it makes perfect business sense.


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## gimmeheadroom

AudioPowerHead said:


> Noticed the digital inputs has both PCM and DSD on the V590.From past threads, I thought Fried was very against DSD ? Perhaps there is a change of mind now



Today DSD, tomorrow, MQA


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## brucellosis

I'm more interested in the eventual replacement for the V281 (preamp functionality without a DAC) in this case configuration. The shoebox style doesn't appeal to me as much.


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## Fegefeuer

AudioPowerHead said:


> Clever move if Fried is going to group RS series under Violectric. Always thought their RS range is excellent value-for-money but potential somewhat limited under existing LP brand. Looks like Violectric range will expand for sure and that is a good thing.



A few devices of the RS line sold very well, Fried said. RS08, RS06 for instance. Now these can reappear with more brand recognition, of course in smaller but new cases.



brucellosis said:


> I'm more interested in the eventual replacement for the V281 (preamp functionality without a DAC) in this case configuration. The shoebox style doesn't appeal to me as much.



Sooner or later it will appear. First June for the V590.


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## roskodan

Fegefeuer said:


> The amp inside the V590 is Niimbus tech trickle down, it's no V281 or V280.



Since someone is mentioning amp tech. A picture is worth a thousand words. Left US4+, right V200.



Just saying.


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## project86

I started a new thread without realizing this one already existed. So I'm letting that one die and moving my content here, so as not to require hassling a mod to merge them. So here we go - some of my info is already less helpful that what is found in the OP, but that's okay.


Just wanted to get a thread up about the latest from Violectric: the new V590. The front panel tells us it is a "32 bit DAC + 32 bit Resampler + Pre-amp + Balanced Headphone Amp". That's a mouthful but you get the idea.










The concept is to take the V281, tweak it for improved performance, add a true high-end DAC. Contrast that with the V281 add-on DAC which was good for the low price but not really commensurate with the performance of a top-shelf amp like V281. What we end up with is chassis both wider and shorter, with the familiar Violectric signature design very much intact. Think V281 plus the V850 DAC and you're on the right track in terms of features and controls.








I'm told this is not a reworked V850 but rather a fresh new design, though I'm sure certain design elements probably carry over. The original Violectric V800 DAC used a single TI PCM1792 chip with a Tenor USB receiver. The V850 switched it up to dual PCM1795 DACs paired with XMOS USB. Neither were DSD capable, but the new model can do at least DSD128 (that's as high as I have tried). There's still the option for resampling or running native sample rate, and that can even be done from the included remote control - which of course also does volume, input selection, and the other usual stuff.

The DAC section of the V590 is AKM-based but I don't have further specifics at the moment so I can't say which model. I can confirm it uses an Amanero USB chip - when I first got it set up, Roon thought it was a Nagra HD DAC (not bad company to be in). I also need to find out more about what exactly was done to improve upon the amplification section (assuming they are willing to spill those details). Pricing is not finalized but the initial number put it comfortably below $4k, which is nice considering the V281 with remote control option plus a V850 is around $4150. If the V590 sounds better, for less money, that's a big win.








This thread will be updated as I get further info.








I just got the V590 in the other day so I haven't had a ton of listening time, but so far I love what I hear. It's got a big, bold presentation, very articulate yet also fluid and non-fatiguing. It effortlessly drove all the headphones I tried, including Empyrean, Kennerton Thekk, Sony MDR-Z1R, and Audeze LCD-24. Obviously need to do a ton more listening and will take some real pics when I get a chance, but so far color me impressed.


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## phonomat

roskodan said:


> Since someone is mentioning amp tech. A picture is worth a thousand words. Left US4+, right V200.
> 
> 
> 
> Just saying.


Just saying what exactly?


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## project86

As far as I can tell, he's saying the output stages look pretty similar. Not sure if he means that in a disparaging way or what though. 

They are both discrete headphone amp designs, made by the same designer, and ultimately the inspiration for the circuit can be traced back to the Nakamichi designs from the 1970's... so I really would not expect drastic, visually obvious distinctions between them. The devices need to be taken as a whole, and ultimately heard, in order to judge. But even so, no amp is a perfect match for every listener, which is why it's great that there are so many quality options on the market at present.


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## project86 (Apr 25, 2020)

I promised some people I'd update with "real" pics of the V590. The best I had time to do was some phone pics... better than nothing though. Keep in mind this is the prototype so the anodizing is not complete, and thus it is really prone to fingerprints etc. Also keep in mind my audio rack is a mess right now!

















Rear Panel:






Currently running straight from a Euphony PTS music server with Keces P8 power supply. Niimbus US4+, Matrix SPDIF 2 (hiding in the other pics), and Titans Audio Lab Helen not currently in the chain, although they definitely will be at some point soon.


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## sahmen

project86 said:


> I promised some people I'd update with "real" pics of the V590. The best I had time to do was some phone pics... better than nothing though. Keep in mind this is the prototype so the anodizing is not complete, and thus it is really prone to fingerprints etc. Also keep in mind my audio rack is a mess right now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So now @project86 and/or anyone who is capable of offering an opinion about the 590's sonic performance :  

Here's the million dollar question : how does it sound, as compared to say, the V281 or th US4+, or is it too soon to ask?

And, how does it sound, with and without the DAC part?

What I would really like to know is how the DAC-less version compares to the V281, on the one hand, and to the Niimbus US4+, on the other. Thanks.


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## project86

I've been telling people this via PM but might as well put it here for everyone. So far my (very initial) impression is that V590 is sort of half way between V281 and Niimbus in terms of amplification. It seems to impart less of its own signature to each headphone - not that V281 is extremely colored by any means, but there is a bit of signature that you notice after living with it for a while. And it's a very pleasing signature.

Niimbus is probably the most transparent amp I've experienced. It just feels like I'm hearing the headphone, along with the DAC, and up the chain to the transport etc. Those are what gives the sonic flavor of any system I assemble with Niimbus on amp duty. V281 is exceptional but doesn't have that same transparency. Well, V590 has a good dose of it, though not quite going as far as Niimbus.

Now, I have to say that I know someone with very good ears and taste in gear, who prefers the subtle flavoring of the V281 over Niimbus. I totally respect his opinion on that. So V590 may not necessarily be his ideal amp either. Or perhaps it would - maybe it's a good compromise between the two models, without going "too far" as it were.

Again, this is all very preliminary, shoot-from-the-hip stuff. Tomorrow I could spend an hour with V590 and realize I've been totally wrong about it thus far. But we'll see.

As for the DAC part, I intend to use isolate that and feed the US4+ with it to see what happens. Also maybe to my Pass HPA-1 and some other amps I have in at the moment. It's fantastic in the V590 as a two-in-one but I want to know if that synergy translates to other amps as well.


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## Fegefeuer (Apr 26, 2020)

yes, the US4+ easily lets me notice Unison vs. "Lynx AES over a Neutrik impedance adapter to SPDIF". I always use the latter with it and know when it's not enabled. And I'm using a dedicated USB card with a dedicated controller for each port.
Same thing happens when using the digital out of the DX160 to the DAC vs Unison USB to an ALLO USBridge Sig. Sold the latter.
US4+ means upping the DAC game and to be even more careful with gear matching.

I also cannot emphasize how great the *Earth/Grounding* concept is. It's infuriating to have a slight hum come off many amplifiers I tried because of all the wiring in complex systems. With one jumper setting there's no hum anymore out of my KRK's. If you have more devices with that concept you can set the point of change at each device (or not) and not touch the rest. It's just great.

Can't get the hum out of the Crimson if the Lynx is connected to the BF2. I have to connect it in line with the source. Got so many devices for my various setups that simply cannot be connected to one single line, thus I use various sockets along the wall.


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## Simple Man

I’m sure it will sound like heaven. 
But, I won’t buy it cause of the looks. 
I had to get hsed to the 280 and 281 but this is way more difficult.
For me.


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## Fegefeuer

hm, what do you not like about it?


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## Simple Man

Imo it looks too Spartan. Not a lot finesse, maybe because of the amount of leds?
I don’t know, maybe I’ll like it after seeing it in real or after a few werks, just like the 280 and the 850. It took some time but eventually I bought the 280. 
Give me some time.


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## Fegefeuer

It's fine, design/looks is highly subjective. 

Since they are coming from the pro audio world they primarily focus on innards. However needing to see it in real life is indeed different. When I saw the US4+ live and in stereo it looked even better.

I'm glad they are not delivering Violectrics in the 19" format however.


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## project86

Looks are indeed subjective but I don't really see a huge aesthetic shift between V590 and something like a V281 with V850 sitting on top. Obviously it's shorter/wider instead of the "shoebox" V281 but that's about it. Personally I always prefer silver gear so maybe you would like V590 more in silver?


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## Simple Man

Fegefeuer said:


> .......
> 
> I'm glad they are not delivering Violectrics in the 19" format however.



That would be an absolute no go for me.


project86 said:


> Looks are indeed subjective but I don't really see a huge aesthetic shift between V590 and something like a V281 with V850 sitting on top. Obviously it's shorter/wider instead of the "shoebox" V281 but that's about it. Personally I always prefer silver gear so maybe you would like V590 more in silver?



Yes I do prefer silver with Violectric. Makes it less ‘spartan’.


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## AudioPowerHead

Just thinking out loud. If the V590 is an improved version of existing V850/V281 combo at value pricing, what will that mean for rest of Violectric range? Hope they will still have next gen dedicated dac and amp in replacing the V850 and V281/280 respectively. I believe there will invariably be compromises with any integrated dac/amp as compared to dedicated components.

Also, in terms of sound signature, if the V590 is moving towards neutral (closer to Niimbus); hopefully that does not mean rest of next gen is also moving in same direction as the V281/280 are both known for its transparency yet with slightly warm tuning which is very pleasing to the ears(at least for mine  ).


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## Fegefeuer

The amp inside the V590 will have its own dedicated version and there will be a dedicated DAC too of course. There you have each respectable replacement. 

V281 will run out some day, I don't know of any plans to reshell it for its probable unique signature in context of the future of Violectric. Don't think that will happen though as more devices are in the pipeline beyond DACs and amps and they need to be realized which takes time.

Remember that the new amps don't just have a different signature, they are also technically more capable. More micro/macrodynamics, a better bass fundament etc. If a 281 would be reshelled it also needs a fitting place in the whole lineup. The question is if they can make it happen in the context of production costs, resources etc... 

Also, it had its time with almost 6 years availability. If people want a V281 it should still be available until it runs out.


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> The amp inside the V590 will have its own dedicated version and there will be a dedicated DAC too of course. There you have each respectable replacement.
> 
> V281 will run out some day, I don't know of any plans to reshell it for its probable unique signature in context of the future of Violectric. Don't think that will happen though as more devices are in the pipeline beyond DACs and amps and they need to be realized which takes time.
> 
> ...


I suppose it’s difficult to further improve on something that is already so good. V281(aka the beast) and V280(...a smaller beast). However, given its age, there is definitely a need to refresh and update one of their best sellers. I am currently very happy with the V280. Only slight regret is not getting the V281 for it’s preamp function to power my old pair of Genelec speakers.

If Fried wants to move back to its root of “no sound” philosophy, then going the neutral route makes sense as Violectric amp is slightly warmer vs LP G109/103 for example. No right or wrong but from it’s brand’s positioning standpoint, it’s probably the right thing to do.


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## Fegefeuer (Apr 27, 2020)

Let's wait how the V590 and the upcoming V3XX (stripped down version, not sure about the full model number) will sound and compare to the old guard.

@project86 already has the chance to compare all and everything but it will take time and patience.


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## project86

Fried has mentioned various ideas in the pipeline as far as upcoming models. I can't go into specifics but generally speaking it spans the range and covers all the expected variations. So someone wanting a pure headphone amp (no DAC) will have options, as will people looking for dedicated DACs etc. There will be upper level stuff (which is where V590 fits) and more affordable models too. It sounds like they basically want to refresh the entire lineup, which of course takes time but will eventually happen.


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## Malcolm Riverside

Copied this post from the other V590 thread:
Heard one of these at CanJam NYC this year and it sounded fantastic! Using the internal dac I found that the sound was better than the V281/V850 combo but not quite up to the level of the Niimbus US4+. Fried told me he was aiming to position the V590 sound & price-wise between the two flagship amps mentioned above. He also told me the unit has two AKM4490 dac chips—one for each channel. 

The V590 has a fantastic form factor as well. It’s obviously wider than the V281 but also much shallower—I’d say it’s around 2/3 the footprint of the Niimbus amp. Think a Phonitor 2/X or Meier Corda amp. 

I do think that with a super top-tier dac you could get a V281 to sound “better” than the V590 with its internal dac, but that combo would far exceed the price of the all-in-one unit. I bet the V590 amp section would scale up with an external dac as well and probably supersede the capabilities of the V281. I’ll also say that at CanJam the Niimbus amp was sourced from the V590 dac and it did not leave me wanting for much, especially with the upsampling features turned on. I wish I had a reason to buy one of these when they’re released!


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## sahmen (Apr 28, 2020)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I do think that with a super top-tier dac you could get a V281 to sound “better” than the V590 with its internal dac, but that combo would far exceed the price of the all-in-one unit. I bet the V590 amp section would scale up with an external dac as well and probably supersede the capabilities of the V281.



Translation: So if I'm currently pairing a V281 with an Yggy A2, does this pairing qualify as super top tier enough to sound better than the V590? I ask that with eyes set on a possible future DAC-less version of the V590 (@Fegefeuer 's "V3XX"?), although my "money-no-object" choice would ideally be the US4+, provided I get to hear it first and firsthand, and prior to pulling any trigger.


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## project86

That's hard to determine, but in theory yes it could possibly be superior. I'd say it really comes down to preference more than one being in a vastly higher league than the other. Based on prior listening I would guess the Yggy A2 and V281 combo is a bit warmer and more dynamic while the V590 would come across as more neutral with a hint of sweetness (which I haven't mentioned but am discovering upon further listening). 

But I'm totally generalizing here.


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## Fegefeuer

If the V590's amp ups the bass game close to the US4+ and stays close to the bigger brothers tonality, technicalities it should be a very great match with your Yggdrasil A2. 
Gear matching is very important. For instance the Gungnir Multibit B + V281 pairing is lively and exciting. The Gungnir while colder than the Yggdrasil benefits from a slight warmth while being taken advantage of its "popping" transients which the dynamism of the V281 supports. This is one aspect I miss in the Bifrost 2 whose character goes towards the Yggdrasil Analog 2.


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## Malcolm Riverside

sahmen said:


> Translation: So if I'm currently pairing a V281 with an Yggy A2, does this pairing qualify as super top tier enough to sound better than the V590? I ask that with eyes set on a possible future DAC-less version of the V590
> (@Fegefeuer 's "V3XX"?), although my "money-no-object" choice would ideally be the US4+, provided I get to hear it first and firsthand, and prior to pulling any trigger.


I spent a good amount of time with the V590 and talked to Fried and Arthur about the unit for a while but it was still a show so don’t take my impressions as gospel. I think we’ll have to wait for @project86 to get his review up for that! Nonetheless if you’re not going to get a US4+ then I’d stand pat with the excellent Yiggy->V281 combo for now. The V590 would probably be a side-grade at best. From my experience I always thought the V281 was underrated in terms of how well it scales with dacs. The fact that an all-in-one is at or near the V281’s level has me pretty excited for where this brand is headed.


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## Malcolm Riverside (Apr 28, 2020)

Found this post from Fried Reim on a German hi-fi forum. It’s from early April, translated by google:
“For the occasion, I would like to point out our new headphone amplifier + D / A converter. 
The Violectric V590 is the first of a series of new Violectric devices that will appear at irregular intervals.
The first prototypes were shown at previous trade fairs, series devices should be available from Hi-End 2020. 
Well, the hi-end is canceled and we are presenting our new devices in some forums. 
The backgrounds. 
Not only we, but also our customers are convinced of our so-called "V200" amplifier technology. Since the development of the HPA V200 in 2009, it has offered a rather warm sound, which is unusual for transistor technology, and can therefore handle height-emphasized headphones quite well. 
We have also been convinced of symmetrical headphone amplifiers since we developed the first German headphone amplifier manufactured in series in 2010. 
That was the HPA V181. 
The combination of "V200" technology and a symmetrical headphone amplifier became the HPA 281, which was launched in 2014. 
It reached sporty sales figures for our standards and is the most noticed German thread at Head-Fi with 600,000 clicks. 
We continue to develop and sell D / A converters very successfully.
The DAC V850 offers adjustable resampling and dual mono converter (2 x PCM 1795). 
It also has a USB input which, however, cannot do a DSD because I am an avowed DSD hater ... 
So it was only natural to replace the V281 after 6 years of production and immediately install an "adult" D / A converter - because it's from the customer is required. 
The aim of the development was to sharpen the valued properties of the V281 and to add a D / A converter. 
That is why the V590 naturally has 4 amplifiers for a real balanced headphone output. 
This includes analog and digital inputs and of course a preamplifier function with sym and unsym. Line outputs.
Further generous possibilities of level adjustment, because the KHV does not know by itself which source is connected to the front, how sensitive the headphones are and which level the power amplifier or the active speakers prefer.”


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> Let's wait how the V590 and the upcoming V3XX (stripped down version, not sure about the full model number) will sound and compare to the old guard.
> 
> @project86 already has the chance to compare all and everything but it will take time and patience.


Curious about this upcoming V3XX you mentioned. Stripped from which model ? Is this the rebranded LP RS series ?


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## AudioPowerHead (Apr 28, 2020)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Found this post from Fried Reim on a German hi-fi forum. It’s from early April, translated by google:
> “For the occasion, I would like to point out our new headphone amplifier + D / A converter.
> The Violectric V590 is the first of a series of new Violectric devices that will appear at irregular intervals.
> The first prototypes were shown at previous trade fairs, series devices should be available from Hi-End 2020.
> ...


@Malcolm Riverside
Thanks for posting this. Provided a lot of clarity on Fried’s thinking and reason-for-being of the V590. Makes a lot of sense.

For existing owners of V281; already with a high end dac of similar/another brand; this may not sound like a big step-up in terms of upgrade(as you mentioned, probably a side grade if we discount the addition of 32-bit sampling, PCM/DSD). I think for such owners, the groundbreaking news is when the next gen dedicated replacements for the V281 and V850 gets announced. V590 is still exciting nonetheless as it gives indication of what is to come.

Think part of the fun of this hobby is the journey of seeking incremental improvements in one’s system set-up one piece at a time


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## Fegefeuer

AudioPowerHead said:


> Curious about this upcoming V3XX you mentioned. Stripped from which model ? Is this the rebranded LP RS series ?



No, those have different numbers and smaller enclosures. The model variance is much higher this time (including the former RS models) so there's more to it than just a stripped down version. Good to have choices.


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> No, those have different numbers and smaller enclosures. The model variance is much higher this time (including the former RS models) so there's more to it than just a stripped down version. Good to have choices.


@Fegefeuer 
Did you sell away your RS06 and V281 ? Didn't see them in your signature line anymore.


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## Fegefeuer

yes, for the new generation


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> yes, for the new generation


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## Malcolm Riverside

Fried on the V380 from the same German hi-fi forum I cited before:

“The DHA V380 is significantly lower. 
The DAC in the device is the same as the V590, but the equipment is significantly reduced. 
There is no balanced line inputs, no balance, no remote control, etc.. 

As I said, the V380 is a bit slimmer than the V590. 
This does not affect the D / A part, it is spot-on. 
The "heart", the actual headphone amplifier corresponds to that of the V590. 
There are differences in the power supply (only one transformer), front (6 instead of 8mm), inputs, outputs, balance, no remote control etc. 
The DHA V380 will cost less than 2500 euros.”


----------



## brucellosis

Unbalanced only on the V380. Hmmmm, I'm holding out for a V381? with balanced, or a V580? without the DAC. Or finally cave and get myself a V281.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Apr 30, 2020)

The numbers are much different now so it's hard to estimate any successor from the naming. Also note the DHA vs. HPA.
HPA V281 successor comes with a HPA V5 in front and V280 successor with a HPA V3.


----------



## hypersonic

I really like the old form factor. It's brilliant for desktop placement. 
Although I understand one may appreciate the wider enclosure for "hifi rack"


----------



## AudioPowerHead

https://audioxpress.com/index.php/n...ake-people-and-plans-future-catalog-expansion

Just came across this news that CMA Audio had acquired Lake People. Not sure if this is a good thing although Fried will still be the chairman of the advisory board. Hope he will still have major influence on the product innovation pipeline of Violectric/Niimbus brands.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It is better for everyone. Fried can concentrate solely on the products and also finally realize stuff he always wanted to create.

Remember that they do much more than the products we know and are used to. Also not only for their own product portfolio.

Many years ago I saw a huge tube amp for 30k at the High End. It looked very impressive. When I told him about it he spoke about how they did a few things for exactly this amp.


----------



## project86

Yes that's a good point - Lake People/Violectric has done various OEM work over the years, which generally is not disclosed. Would be fun to see a list but that's usually a no-no based on contracts for this sort of work.

More listening to V590 shows that it is relatively transport-agnostic. The resample feature (based on an AKM chip) does a good job making basic laptops sound great. I do hear an improvement with dedicated transports like my Nativ Vita music server or the McIntosh MCD600 I had in for review, but using something lesser still gives a very enjoyable experience. 

So far I like it using "Best" mode.


----------



## AudioPowerHead (May 9, 2020)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Fried on the V380 from the same German hi-fi forum I cited before:
> 
> “The DHA V380 is significantly lower.
> The DAC in the device is the same as the V590, but the equipment is significantly reduced.
> ...


Do you have a pic of the back panel? Can’t see clearly from this one. Thanks.


----------



## BLacklWf

I hope to hear further updates on the sound impression or review. Hope everyone is staying well and safe!


----------



## Fegefeuer

AudioPowerHead said:


> Do you have a pic of the back panel? Can’t see clearly from this one. Thanks.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Small observation. Noticed the pre gain switches are +18,+6,-6,-18 for V590 and V380. The V281/V280 both have +12,+6,-6,-12.  

May be good news to existing Vios owners who are at -12db and looking for more room to play with on the volume pot.


----------



## project86

Just got confirmation that V590 will be priced at $3499 in North America. Not sure how that will shake out elsewhere, but I feel that's a very fair price for what you get. At the moment there is just the one version which is black only and has the remote control for volume adjustment. Later they will likely offer separate amp-only models but of course those are not V590 but some other model name...

V281 is on the way out now, with a "Final Edition" making up the last batch. It's still the same price though. So let's examine: V590 is $3499 for DAC and amp. V281 is $2199 for amp only, plus $249 for the remote control option. That means we have $1050 to play with in terms of adding a DAC to V281 - I'm leaving out the fact that V590's amp section is improved over V281, because I don't know how to put a specific price tag on that.

Anyway, lots of good DACs available at around $1K so it's certainly possible to build an enjoyable system there. But will any of them keep up with the V590 DAC section? That's a tough challenge, as it sounds to me more like a DAC in the $1500 to $2000 range. I will play around with models I have and see what I come up with but at the moment I'm not coming up with anything that will do the job in that budget.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

project86 said:


> Just got confirmation that V590 will be priced at $3499 in North America. Not sure how that will shake out elsewhere, but I feel that's a very fair price for what you get. At the moment there is just the one version which is black only and has the remote control for volume adjustment. Later they will likely offer separate amp-only models but of course those are not V590 but some other model name...
> 
> V281 is on the way out now, with a "Final Edition" making up the last batch. It's still the same price though. So let's examine: V590 is $3499 for DAC and amp. V281 is $2199 for amp only, plus $249 for the remote control option. That means we have $1050 to play with in terms of adding a DAC to V281 - I'm leaving out the fact that V590's amp section is improved over V281, because I don't know how to put a specific price tag on that.
> 
> Anyway, lots of good DACs available at around $1K so it's certainly possible to build an enjoyable system there. But will any of them keep up with the V590 DAC section? That's a tough challenge, as it sounds to me more like a DAC in the $1500 to $2000 range. I will play around with models I have and see what I come up with but at the moment I'm not coming up with anything that will do the job in that budget.


Very fair price indeed considering it is *next gen* of the V281/V850 combo. The V281/V850 combined price (if purchased separately) is around $3900. So the V590 at $3499 certainly looks like a steal.


----------



## musicus

Looking at the pic of the rear panel of the V590, I can see that no LAN input is provided for network streaming. Is this not a major downside compared to the like of Mytek Brooklyn Bridge and Matrix Audio Element X?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, that function is unimportant for most people who buy DACs and amps in that price region. 
Most people still buy outside of participating at Head-Fi and they use CD-Players, Vinyl etc.

And those who are more hardcore, more active in forums or migrated to Qobuz, Tidal either build their own transports like PI2AES, Digione Signature or buy SOTM and other dedicated server stuff.


----------



## project86

Yeah it's not a very common feature. For every dozen new DAC releases, with or without integrated headphone outputs, you'd be lucky to find one with network capabilities.

That may slowly change over the next few years but right now built in streaming is not at all the norm.


----------



## musicus

project86 said:


> Yeah it's not a very common feature. For every dozen new DAC releases, with or without integrated headphone outputs, you'd be lucky to find one with network capabilities.
> 
> That may slowly change over the next few years but right now built in streaming is not at all the norm.



Fair enough, so what is the ideal use of the V590? With a laptop over a potentially noisy / inferior USB or with an audio-grade streamer connected via an audio-grade connection and what would that be, USB, coaxial, AES, optical? Would this work with DSD files?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just build a low power device like the Raspberry PI supported by multiple HATs. PI2AES, ALLO Digione (Signature), Allo USBridge (Signature) etc.
From there you can control them via Smartphone or Notebook. Allo USBridge supports DSD up to theoretical DSD1024.


----------



## musicus

Fegefeuer said:


> Just build a low power device like the Raspberry PI supported by multiple HATs. PI2AES, ALLO Digione (Signature), Allo USBridge (Signature) etc.
> From there you can control them via Smartphone or Notebook. Allo USBridge supports DSD up to theoretical DSD1024.



Thank you. I feel I would prefer a less DIY / more off-the-shelf solution. I do like using a MacBook Pro as the source, my only worry is that the USB output may not be very high end, that's all...


----------



## Fegefeuer

The hardest part of that build is removing the protection tape that protects the case from scratching. I'm not kidding. Everything else is pretty well documented.
You can access the UI over your browser too, no need for a smartphone. Smartphone is convenient when you want to sink into your chair and not get up. 

I am not familiar with Macbooks, I actually assume they do their USB design better than most notebooks. Let me ask someone.


----------



## AudioPowerHead (May 17, 2020)

musicus said:


> Thank you. I feel I would prefer a less DIY / more off-the-shelf solution. I do like using a MacBook Pro as the source, my only worry is that the USB output may not be very high end, that's all...


I use the MacBook Pro too for its convenience. USB for sure is not the best way to go, so I have added Totaldac USB filter/Lake People RS05 in the chain. Specifically, the LP RS05 helps to re-clock, re-sample and effectively eliminate jitter (however it does not do DSD; only PCM up to 192kHz). Alternatively, you can consider the Schiit Eitr or Topping D10 to convert from USB to SPDIF prior to dac/amp input.

Depending on how old is your MBP, models prior to 2016 apparently have optical output via the 3.5mm headphone jack. This was however taken off all new models post 2016. More info here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202730

Hope this helps a little.


----------



## Fegefeuer

"Yeah, straight from the Mac to a DAC is good on a MacBook Pro or any other Mac."
These are the words from a friend I fully trust. He builds is own amps and mods his DACs. As a graphic designer he uses Macbooks and Macs daily.
I say just go for it and don't think about it.

*Also*: The *resampling *feature removes any doubts about the quality of the Data itself. 

*ALSO *and btw: *V590 *comes with a *FEMTO clock*.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Wow ! V590 comes with Femto. This is new news !!


----------



## BLacklWf

project86 said:


> Just got confirmation that V590 will be priced at $3499 in North America. Not sure how that will shake out elsewhere, but I feel that's a very fair price for what you get. At the moment there is just the one version which is black only and has the remote control for volume adjustment. Later they will likely offer separate amp-only models but of course those are not V590 but some other model name...
> 
> V281 is on the way out now, with a "Final Edition" making up the last batch. It's still the same price though. So let's examine: V590 is $3499 for DAC and amp. V281 is $2199 for amp only, plus $249 for the remote control option. That means we have $1050 to play with in terms of adding a DAC to V281 - I'm leaving out the fact that V590's amp section is improved over V281, because I don't know how to put a specific price tag on that.
> 
> Anyway, lots of good DACs available at around $1K so it's certainly possible to build an enjoyable system there. But will any of them keep up with the V590 DAC section? That's a tough challenge, as it sounds to me more like a DAC in the $1500 to $2000 range. I will play around with models I have and see what I come up with but at the moment I'm not coming up with anything that will do the job in that budget.


I have to say it's reasonably priced in terms of Violectric pricing. Personally I will be looking forward to the model without DAC.


----------



## BLacklWf

Fegefeuer said:


> "Yeah, straight from the Mac to a DAC is good on a MacBook Pro or any other Mac."
> These are the words from a friend I fully trust. He builds is own amps and mods his DACs. As a graphic designer he uses Macbooks and Macs daily.
> I say just go for it and don't think about it.
> 
> ...


FEMTO clock is good news for sure.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums (May 19, 2020)

musicus said:


> Thank you. I feel I would prefer a less DIY / more off-the-shelf solution. I do like using a MacBook Pro as the source, my only worry is that the USB output may not be very high end, that's all...


I have been Macs for years and their audio output through USB is quite good compared to other desktops and laptops.  For the last few years I used my iMAC connected via USB to a variety of DACs and never had any issues with sound quality.  When I wanted to have headphone setups in others rooms, I started using Roon and went with the SOtM SMS-200Ultra Neo for the DAC and AMP set up I already had in my office and then went with the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge as an all in one set up for the bedroom.  I personally felt that the SOtM streamer made a an improvement in sound quality vs the USB output from my iMAC, but it was not huge.  All I had to do to set up the SOtM was to plug it and the computer into wired ethernet and a USB from the SOtM to the DAC.  I turned on Roon and it was already chosen for playback.  If you just want a streamer because you think it will be better than going direct from the iMAC its not worth the cost of these units.  But if you want to stream to different areas of the house using one computer and/or an iPad, then there are tons of options that you can use to stream and connect to a high-end DAC/AMP like the Vioelectric.  You might like something like the Lumin U1Mini, as it has a screen and looks more traditional, but you still need to plug it into wired ethernet and then connect it to the DAC using a USB cable, optical, coaxial, or AES.


----------



## Armaegis

I spy a few socketed opamps on the board which is a bit surprising. Any idea what those are for?


----------



## project86

If I recall correctly (it's been years since my discussion about this with designer Fried Reim) the opamps are mainly responsible for impedance matching and other really low gain activities. 

They have been socketed since the early days of V200/V181 for the purposes of easy servicing rather than swapping. Later people started rolling opamps and mostly reported no change, or in some cases worse sound - the circuit requires unity-gain stable opamps along with fairly high voltage requirements (+/- 18V in the V281 for example). That combination weeds out many of the usual opamp choices (most Bursons, for example, top out at +/- 15V).

That said, the Sparkos discrete opamps do work, and some folks I trust have reported small but worthwhile improvements by swapping them. I spent a lot of time messing with opamps when V281 first came out and none gave me any improvement, but this was before Sparkos Labs was around so I can't comment on that particular combo.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums (May 24, 2020)

Just so people are aware, at my request Power Holdings Inc. have listed the new Vioelectric V590 for pre-sale! Shipping is set for late June.  Go get em!

(I can't make a new thread yet, so if anyone wants to quote my post as a new thread, please do)


----------



## Fegefeuer

What purpose should a new thread serve other than more clutter?


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> What purpose should a new thread serve other than more clutter?


I didn't know if people would see my post since it is 5 pages deep into the thread. It was just an option, not a big deal


----------



## Fegefeuer

I will update the thread frequently for reviews, comparisons, impressions. Similarly to the V281 thread. That's the only reason I do this, so we have a good collection for everyone and people only need one place where they can look for resources. Worked very well before. 

Will include your post now at the front page.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> I will update the thread frequently for reviews, comparisons, impressions. Similarly to the V281 thread. That's the only reason I do this, so we have a good collection for everyone and people only need one place where they can look for resources. Worked very well before.


That makes sense.  It is nice to just one thread to look though for information



Fegefeuer said:


> Will include your post now at the front page.


Great!  Thanks! I appreciate it.


----------



## Music Path

AnimalOnDrums said:


> Just so people are aware, at my request Power Holdings Inc. have listed the new Vioelectric V590 for pre-sale! *Shipping is set for late June.*  Go get em!
> 
> (I can't make a new thread yet, so if anyone wants to quote my post as a new thread, please do)




When is expected release of the V380?


----------



## project86

Been using V590 as a DAC only this weekend, paired with my electrostatic rig - custom beast-mode KGSSHV with SR-007mk2, SR-4070, and my favorite at the moment despite its low price, the Kaldas Research Conquest RR1.

V590 DAC section is beautiful. It's generally neutral and quite transparent, but I'm also hearing a bit of sweetness in there, a "just right" level of midrange bloom, and superb tonality. Reminds me a lot of the Yulong DA10 actually, which is an excellent value at $1200 and is also built around a (different) AKM chip.

The V590 also works really well with mediocre sources. Their upsampling implementation seems to do its job. I switched from my best sources to just decent transports and then to really basic (old laptop) and while there was a small difference, it was always enjoyable regardless. Deactivating the resample option makes it fairly obvious when using a poor source (plus quality headphones and recordings, obviously).


----------



## AnimalOnDrums (May 26, 2020)

The pre-order page has been updated with the option to upgrade to the 256-step relay volume along with an updated ETA of early July. The upgrade to the 256-step relay  volume costs $600, which puts the total for the v590 with this option at $4100 (just as reported earlier in this thread).  They have also put up a link to download the brochure of the V590, which I have also uploaded.  The specs and features reported earlier in this thread are pretty much spot on.



Music Path said:


> When is expected release of the V380?


The company itself does not have an estimated release date for the other models, including the v380.  Basically, the main focus has been on the v590 and getting it out to us consumers since the v281 is more than 7 years old.  They wanted to get the top of the line model out so that they can focus on making enough of them as they suspect it will be their best seller.  Once they release the v590, then they will focus on the other models and have a better timeline for everyone.  Sorry there isn't a more definitive answer than that.


----------



## Fegefeuer (May 25, 2020)

Nice, will attach it to the starting post. 
Also posted impedance/power table.


----------



## project86

Ok that clarifies it - I wasn't sure how things were going to shake out with the volume control situation and pricing. But I guess it's obvious now. So the prototype I have on hand includes the upgraded relay-based volume control, which represents a $4100 product. "Standard" version is $3500 which uses the Alps pot with motorized volume control,and does have the Femto clock as well. 

Based on my V281 experience, the relay-based volume control is a small improvement which may be worthwhile for some users but is definitely not essential to enjoy the experience on a "standard" machine.


----------



## Music Path (May 25, 2020)

The new generation has less power in mW then the older gen, from the specs. Don´t know about the voltage though.


----------



## Armaegis

Music Path said:


> The new generation has less power in mW then the older gen, from the specs. Don´t know about the voltage though.



Unless you're one of the pain train idiots like me who has an old school HE-6 or something of that ilk, chasing power ratings is a fool's errand.


----------



## Music Path (May 25, 2020)

It was more an observation. Yes more power doesn´t always equate better soundquality overall. It can be even usefull to have more volume room, since in previous post someone already refered that this new generation is quieter then the older one, which makes sense.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

With the latest specs and features of the V590, this looks like the “ultimate driving machine” (like the BMW) for headphones and speakers. If I have not acted too quickly with purchase of earlier Vio models, this would be the perfect dream machine for me at this launch price.

Of course, there is also the more premium Niimbus, which is analogously a Porsche.


----------



## koven

No silver faceplate option?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nein, mein Freund.


----------



## sahmen

This is really nice and tempting, but I'd rather not have the DAC part. Which is why I am opting to wait for the V281's direct successor, or descendant...

Tick tock tick tock tick tock


----------



## Fegefeuer

Shouldn't be far off. Guessing autumn.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

koven said:


> No silver faceplate option?


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Anyone placed an advanced order for the V590? Understand earliest ETA is in July. Will be keen to hear any 1st hand experiences.


----------



## Lambeek (Jun 27, 2020)

More eager to know the performance of the pure analogue section - might be a good indicator of the future HPA version of V590.


----------



## mvule

Along similar lines, does anyone know if this version can be used with an external dac (for those who like to chop and change)?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Take a look at the opening post, it's very obvious.


----------



## mvule (Jun 27, 2020)

Ah yes, so it is. Thank you very much. 
Sorry for the obvious question.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

AudioPowerHead said:


> Anyone placed an advanced order for the V590? Understand earliest ETA is in July. Will be keen to hear any 1st hand experiences.


I placed an order as soon as it became available, but there are a few posts in this thread from people who got to test the unit and they talked a bit about their first hand experiences.  If those are what you are looking for, I am sure there will be a bunch of people taking about it when they arrive


----------



## project86

Yeah hopefully more impressions than just mine will be available soon.

Mine are definitely positive though. This thing is just a beast. I keep wanting to drill down and compare the amp to V281 using a higher-end external DAC... but the built-in DAC is just so good that I can't seem to tear myself away from it. So instead I've been feeding the V281 from V590 line-out and comparing that way.

So far I confirm my prior impressions (which I think I posted here, but perhaps it was just a PM instead, can't keep it straight) that has the V590 amp section sitting between V281 and Niimbus US4+ in tonal balance and detail levels. So V281 feels like the warmest of the bunch, then V590, then Niimbus. 

But of course the US4+ is not really bright at all, and has some of the most expressive, fleshed out low-end I've ever experienced. And V281 has excellent detail retrieval as well. So it's not as simple as "warm, neutral, bright" in the comparison. But that's certainly the quick/dirty first impression take on it, and only later am I forced to admit that describing sound isn't that straight-forward.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Honestly, I'm very excited about the DAC part first, but that's because I got to play with the US4+ in the many last months so my perspective is different from context of this thread.
Curious to see how LP managed to design around the AKM DAC. So far all their DAC designs were pretty good, free from digititus, weird tonality etc. Now with the chip change and more space for thermal design and volume this should be interesting after the V800, V850, RS06. And everything with a full size amp inside too. Fried said the 4499 offers the most interesting and exciting options for designing the analog stage but unfortunately that chip is no option for this range. One DAC alone costs almost 100 dollars. Pretty crazy.

If the amp V590 is more towards the US4+ in technical performance as Fried said then the bass foundation is something everyone can really look forward to. US4's bass detail, control, texture, grip, heft and sustain is absolutely superb. I love the HD 800 with it, really makes all the strengths shine and flow. Physical mods still needed though, you can't cheat physics unfortunately. I went with the felt mod on the ring. 

On the US4+ experiences with the HD 800 and 650 are sometimes like a kick in the groin as in "why do you need other headphones, man"? 

However the V5XX will also require to gear match more carefully then. They are more revealing and transparent than the previous generation. There's also the scaling factor. Do not get a wimpy DAC to go along with these. 

Hopefully I can manage to get a Prism Callia and Hugo 2 to play with and see how those play with the new gen.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

AnimalOnDrums said:


> I placed an order as soon as it became available, but there are a few posts in this thread from people who got to test the unit and they talked a bit about their first hand experiences.  If those are what you are looking for, I am sure there will be a bunch of people taking about it when they arrive


Do share your impression when yours arrive.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

project86 said:


> So far I confirm my prior impressions (which I think I posted here, but perhaps it was just a PM instead, can't keep it straight) that has the V590 amp section sitting between V281 and Niimbus US4+ in tonal balance and detail levels. So V281 feels like the warmest of the bunch, then V590, then Niimbus.
> 
> But of course the US4+ is not really bright at all, and has some of the most expressive, fleshed out low-end I've ever experienced. And V281 has excellent detail retrieval as well. So it's not as simple as "warm, neutral, bright" in the comparison. But that's certainly the quick/dirty first impression take on it, and only later am I forced to admit that describing sound isn't that straight-forward.


Thank you project86 for sharing. Concur that describing sound is not easy so I usually try to profile gears on different dimensions to have a sense of where they stand.
Based on your impressions, seems like LP is moving Violectric amps(HPA)/dac amps(DHA) towards a more neutral sound; closer to the Niimbus. Can understand why as V590/V5XX will benefit from the trickle-down tech of Niimbus.





I own the V280 and an earlier LP G103. The G103 is very transparent and neutral while the V280 has a touch of warmth to the sound which I like very much. Matter of preference, for me, I much prefer the slight warmish yet balanced sound signature of V280. So will be interesting to hear how the next gen of V590/V5XX sounds like.


----------



## project86

That't a nice chart there, makes total sense of a rather complex idea. 

My biggest fear or hesitation is when someone, who has never experienced any of these amps, reads this and walks away thinking V281/V280 are warm, syrupy, dark amps. Totally not the case at all. It's just a touch of flavor, mainly caused by the lows being so potent and well defined. Likewise I wouldn't want anyone to think the Niimbus sound is bright, thin, etched, etc. The US4+ is absolutely effortless in dynamics, weighty, rich, textured bass, etc. It just has such clear midrange and treble that the focus is not drawn to the lower registers like it might be on the V281.


----------



## Slim1970

project86 said:


> That't a nice chart there, makes total sense of a rather complex idea.
> 
> My biggest fear or hesitation is when someone, who has never experienced any of these amps, reads this and walks away thinking V281/V280 are warm, syrupy, dark amps. Totally not the case at all. It's just a touch of flavor, mainly caused by the lows being so potent and well defined. Likewise I wouldn't want anyone to think the Niimbus sound is bright, thin, etched, etc. The US4+ is absolutely effortless in dynamics, weighty, rich, textured bass, etc. It just has such clear midrange and treble that the focus is not drawn to the lower registers like it might be on the V281.


Is the V590’s bass potent like the V281’s or is it more refined and defined with presence like the US4+ bass?


----------



## project86

Slim1970 said:


> Is the V590’s bass potent like the V281’s or is it more refined and defined with presence like the US4+ bass?


 
Sort of half way between the two.


----------



## mat.1

any other opinion on the sound ?


----------



## project86

The other day someone described the Niimbus US4+ as being "tubelike", and initially it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. US4+ is not at all rolled off, overly smooth, dark, mushy, or heavy-handed. But then I kept reading, and that's not the sort of tube sound they were referring to at all. They meant "high-end" tube which for them equates to solidity, glow, liquidity, and transparency. And _that _is something I can definitely agree with.

So looking at it that way, the V590 also has some of that same "tube" presentation. Definitely not peaky or sharp up top but still has superb treble articulation, very free of grain. Midrange is weighty, with rich tonality. Bass texture and refinement is superb, which is an area where many tube amps (even really good ones) will probably not be able to keep up. The sound would not be out of place coming from a nice 300B tube amp, if that makes any sense.


----------



## Fegefeuer

"The best tube amps sound like solidstates and the best solidstates sound like tubeamps." That's indeed what he referred to.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hm, the V590 with the Niimbus volume control is listed as V590 PRO on the German site.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Thats cool, I like that designation...makes me feel better about spending $600 extra on a relay-controlled volume because without it you are not a pro, just some _amateur _with an amp  ha ha ha, kidding.  I do like the "pro" designation though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That volume control is absolutely worth it. Heard a US4+ with an alternate control and it didn't keep up. Less transparent in the finest treble. Slight hardness actually. A bummer, it was much cheaper.

Anyway, here's a shot of the final PCB. From green to blue. 







also, something new for the front page


----------



## HalloweenJack

On CMAs official site for this amp ( https://www.cma.audio/en/detail/index/sArticle/2057 ) it says:

"High Output Voltage - through *50 V* internal operating voltage."

Does this mean +/- 50 V or +/- 25 V ?

The previous Violectric series has +/- 30 V (60 V).


----------



## HalloweenJack

Side-note:
After checking the manuals of different Violectric manuals, it seems that my HPA V90-model (discontinued) gives the most voltage to 600 ohm cans (unbalanced)in the Violectric series:

600 ohm load:
V90: dBU 28,6 / V 20,9 / 730 mW
V200:  dBU 27,6 / V18,5 / 570 mW

DHA V590 lists 21 volts @ 600 ohm so about the same as my V90.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> That volume control is absolutely worth it. Heard a US4+ with an alternate control and it didn't keep up. Less transparent in the finest treble. Slight hardness actually. A bummer, it was much cheaper.
> 
> Anyway, here's a shot of the final PCB. From green to blue.
> 
> ...



Oh cool!  Love the blue!  

Yeah, I know its worth it. I am just messing around.  I never considered this amp without the relay based volume control.  Did they ever actually produce a Niimbus amp with that volume control?  Or was it pre-production or something?  I though the Niimbus amps came with the stepped relay controlled volume, no?  Just curious


----------



## Fegefeuer

US4 is using an ALPS pot. US4+ and V590 pro use the same reed relais control.

Alternate control was something entirely different but just not at the same performance level


----------



## TDon

I noticed an update to the Power Holdings ordering page today.  Pre-order by July 31, and get the volume control upgrade for free.....

*Pre-Order a V590 by July 31st and get a free upgrade to the Pro model with the 256 step relay volume a $600 value!
Ship date Aug 14th*

-TD


----------



## Fegefeuer

Oh, that's pretty nice.


----------



## project86 (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah was just going to add that info here - great motivation to get in on the pre-order, the relay volume is fantastic!


----------



## mat.1

How is the Transparency Violetric V590 amp comparing with Hugo TT2 for drive abyss 1266 TC ?


----------



## project86

To my ears, Hugo TT2 has that extreme, in-your-face, "look at me I'm a detail!!!" thing going on. It's more refined and palatable than prior-gen Chord gear, but still sounds a bit artificial to me. 

V590 is more on the natural, organic side, with great resolution that doesn't call so much attention to itself. But I haven't spent a ton of time with the latest Abyss so can't get more specific than that.


----------



## Lambeek (Jul 20, 2020)

Does anyone have a chance to compare the performance of the DAC part of DHA V590 with some well-known dedicated DACs like Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Benchmark DAC3, Chord Qutest or others with retail prices around $2K? If the DAC part of V590 is on par with or even slightly better than these DACs, one might not need to bother getting a decent DAC below $2K


----------



## project86

Lambeek said:


> Does anyone have a chance to compare the performance of the DAC part of DHA V590 with some well-known dedicated DACs like Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Benchmark DAC3, Chord Qutest or others with retail prices around $2K? If the DAC part of V590 is on par with or even slightly better than these DACs, one might not need to bother getting a decent DAC below $2K



I personally would not use any of those over the built-in DAC. Ok _maybe _the Benchmark if I was really trying to assemble a detail-oriented system with no regard for any other aspects. DAC3 will probably dig out a bit more resolution than V590 can muster on its own. 

But at what cost? Monetarily and sonically, there's a pretty steep penalty involved, and the majority of the time it wouldn't be worth it for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lambeek said:


> Does anyone have a chance to compare the performance of the DAC part of DHA V590 with some well-known dedicated DACs like Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Benchmark DAC3, Chord Qutest or others with retail prices around $2K? If the DAC part of V590 is on par with or even slightly better than these DACs, one might not need to bother getting a decent DAC below $2K



I have the Brooklyn DAC+ and the RME. The Brooklyn goes through a V280. I wanted MQA and didn't know what to expect but the Brooklyn is beautiful from top to bottom.The UI and build quality are superb. I would still rather have the combo I have than the V590. I can see the V590 for an all in one or secondary setup, I think a lot of it comes down to whether you like separates or not. If you like all in one the V590 is going to be very difficult to beat.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> US4 is using an ALPS pot. US4+ and V590 pro use the same reed relais control.
> 
> Alternate control was something entirely different but just not at the same performance level



Ohhh, I did not know that.  For the price and quality of the amp I am sure it has a top quality potentiometer in it (at least I hope it does)  
Well now there is absolutely no reason not to get the "pro" version since its free.  I was pretty surprised to see that and its a pretty sweet freakin' deal.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Lambeek said:


> Does anyone have a chance to compare the performance of the DAC part of DHA V590 with some well-known dedicated DACs like Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Benchmark DAC3, Chord Qutest or others with retail prices around $2K? If the DAC part of V590 is on par with or even slightly better than these DACs, one might not need to bother getting a decent DAC below $2K


I have both the RME ADI-2 pro fs black edition and a Benchmark DAC3L so I will be able to compare them against the v590 once it gets here if that helps at all... I could put up my initial impressions as soon as I get it, but I get that it might be too long to wait if you are trying to decide on pre-ordering one.


----------



## Lambeek

gimmeheadroom said:


> I have the Brooklyn DAC+ and the RME. The Brooklyn goes through a V280. I wanted MQA and didn't know what to expect but the Brooklyn is beautiful from top to bottom.The UI and build quality are superb. I would still rather have the combo I have than the V590. I can see the V590 for an all in one or secondary setup, I think a lot of it comes down to whether you like separates or not. If you like all in one the V590 is going to be very difficult to beat.


Agree. There are more factors besides budget and sound quality that affect one's preference for separates or all-in-ones. In most cases, the separates can't defeat all-in-ones on price-performance ratio, while all-in-ones can't defeat separates on mix-n-match flexibility (or fun?). One drawback of most all-in-ones is that their DAC parts are non-upgradable. The technical improvement of modern digital devices(streamers, DACs) develops at a faster pace than pure analog devices (different kinds of amps, speakers, headphones, etc.). The newly-announced DAC chips might be outdated within three years. The top-notch USB interfaces developed 10 years ago may not even compete with those in today's lower-middle level DACs, while a 10-year-old (since its release), well-designed headphone amp can still do a quite decent job in today's environment. If the owner of an all-in-one unit is not satisfied with the performance of the built-in dac any more and want an upgrade, potentially it would become a dilemma: a new separate DAC(a kind of waste: end of the lifetime of current built-in DAC) or a new system? 

BTW, any plan to upgrade V280 to it's future successor, HPA version(standalone headphone amp) of V590?


----------



## Lambeek

AnimalOnDrums said:


> Ohhh, I did not know that.  For the price and quality of the amp I am sure it has a top quality potentiometer in it (at least I hope it does)
> Well now there is absolutely no reason not to get the "pro" version since its free.  I was pretty surprised to see that and its a pretty sweet freakin' deal.


So you have pre-ordered one? Can't wait to see your impressions and comparison


----------



## Lambeek

Fegefeuer said:


> That volume control is absolutely worth it. Heard a US4+ with an alternate control and it didn't keep up. Less transparent in the finest treble. Slight hardness actually. A bummer, it was much cheaper.
> 
> Anyway, here's a shot of the final PCB. From green to blue.
> 
> ...


Beautiful layout and design. BTW, do you know if the coax and AES/EBU digital inputs support DSD DoP besides USB?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lambeek said:


> Agree. There are more factors besides budget and sound quality that affect one's preference for separates or all-in-ones. In most cases, the separates can't defeat all-in-ones on price-performance ratio, while all-in-ones can't defeat separates on mix-n-match flexibility (or fun?). One drawback of most all-in-ones is that their DAC parts are non-upgradable. The technical improvement of modern digital devices(streamers, DACs) develops at a faster pace than pure analog devices (different kinds of amps, speakers, headphones, etc.). The newly-announced DAC chips might be outdated within three years. The top-notch USB interfaces developed 10 years ago may not even compete with those in today's lower-middle level DACs, while a 10-year-old (since its release), well-designed headphone amp can still do a quite decent job in today's environment. If the owner of an all-in-one unit is not satisfied with the performance of the built-in dac any more and want an upgrade, potentially it would become a dilemma: a new separate DAC(a kind of waste: end of the lifetime of current built-in DAC) or a new system?
> 
> BTW, any plan to upgrade V280 to it's future successor, HPA version(standalone headphone amp) of V590?



I think you made some good points. But, we are still hard-pressed to find recordings in better resolution that SACD. Sure, there are small operations doing DSD256 but they're totally out of the mainstream. It feels like we really will not need more USB performance and not more DAC performance for the forseeable future.

If anything, variations on DACs (chip dacs, fpga decoders, R2R) are probably going to be more important in the character of sound than improvements on chip dacs in general. Performance has been so good that the specs have been well beyond the range of human hearing for years already. I'm not at all concerned about DACs or USB drivers becoming obsolete. I'm worried about the lack of recordings that will ever be offered beyond redbook.


----------



## Lambeek (Jul 21, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think you made some good points. But, we are still hard-pressed to find recordings in better resolution that SACD. Sure, there are small operations doing DSD256 but they're totally out of the mainstream. It feels like we really will not need more USB performance and not more DAC performance for the forseeable future.
> 
> If anything, variations on DACs (chip dacs, fpga decoders, R2R) are probably going to be more important in the character of sound than improvements on chip dacs in general. Performance has been so good that the specs have been well beyond the range of human hearing for years already. I'm not at all concerned about DACs or USB drivers becoming obsolete. I'm worried about the lack of recordings that will ever be offered beyond redbook.


I'm also a fan of DSD recordings since to my ears DSD is more vivid and analog-like and always offers a less edgy listening experience than PCM could ever do - at least for acoustic recordings(mostly classical and jazz). However, I might be less troubled by the lack of superior audio formats(DSD64 and above, for example) mainly for two reasons: 1. The quality of the recording itself is much more important than what audio format it takes. The room-treatment, equipment setups(microphone arrangement, etc.), post-processing via DAWs in the studio, the aesthetics(or philosophy?), and tastes of the recording engineers and producers all play more essential roles than the final audio formats. In my opinion, Redbook is gonna be good enough even for audiophiles if a high level of recording quality has been achieved. 2. As you have mentioned some superior audio formats have been far beyond the mainstream. As an audiophile you just have to admit a cold hard fact - most people have been pretty satisfied with the sound quality of 320 kbps OGG Vorbis(highest quality in Spotify) or 256kbps AAC(Apple Music).

Regarding the importance of DAC in high-quality playback, I have a few more things to clarify. When I talk about the fast “evolution" over generations of DACs, I am not talking about (or at least not limited to) the improvements on nominal specifications and objective measurements, nor how broad the audio formats they can support. I was mainly talking about the true sound quality improvements in a subjective manner. I think there is a huge difference between DAC performance and specs/measurements. The former is a more subjective thing than the latter. And I agree the improvement of specs has become more and more meaningless to human ears, but it doesn't mean we don't need more advanced DACs for better SQ. The specs/measurements can't explain everything - two DACs with comparable specs/measurements can have totally different sound signatures, and a DAC based on R2R architecture probably can't defeat one using Delta-Sigma on specs/measurements, but it still offers better SQ to someone's ears. In regard to the USB interface, I am not talking about the USB driver which is on the software end, but a key hardware part in modern DAC that converts UAC 1.1/2.0 audio stream to I2S or other kinds of the digital signal for further processing. I once watched an interview with a DAC designer for a US audio manufacturer (name starting with an "S") who said the initial generations of their USB interface sound crappy (from his own mouth - too honest?) and he is much more satisfied with their current gen (gen 5 or newer). The point here is that some new technologies may not be reflected as huge differences on paper, but they do enhance the SQ to some degree. On the contrary, the eye-catching improvement on specs/measurements often plays a more important role in marketing strategies rather than in real-world listening experiences.


----------



## project86

Agree with the above, and would like to add an example - check out any of the JVC XRCD releases, which are "only" 16-bit/44.1KHz, and you'll hear some pretty amazing SQ despite the potential limitations of the Redbook standard. Ditto most of the Reference Recordings material, even when it's just the CD version. DSD and hi-res PCM have their appeal but even CD quality material can sound amazing.


----------



## Lambeek

project86 said:


> Agree with the above, and would like to add an example - check out any of the JVC XRCD releases, which are "only" 16-bit/44.1KHz, and you'll hear some pretty amazing SQ despite the potential limitations of the Redbook standard. Ditto most of the Reference Recordings material, even when it's just the CD version. DSD and hi-res PCM have their appeal but even CD quality material can sound amazing.


Couldn't agree more. Also a huge fan of RR. The recordings of Manfred Honeck/Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra sound fantastic and show us how high the modern recording technologies can reach in terms of SQ - even at 16/44.1. 

Although many boutique recording companies use DSD or Hi-Res PCM as their final formats and claims superb SQ as the corresponding achievements, the truth is the format itself only makes a small contribution to SQ. The reason behind this is simple: it's much easier and turns to be more efficient in marketing to explain the high-quality recordings in terms like "DXD", "Double DSD", or "Hi-Res Audio" to consumers than to explain complicated details in recording and sound production.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Lambeek said:


> Couldn't agree more. Also a huge fan of RR. The recordings of Manfred Honeck/Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra sound fantastic and show us how high the modern recording technologies can reach in terms of SQ - even at 16/44.1.
> 
> Although many boutique recording companies use DSD or Hi-Res PCM as their final formats and claims superb SQ as the corresponding achievements, the truth is the format itself only makes a small contribution to SQ. The reason behind this is simple: it's much easier and turns to be more efficient in marketing to explain the high-quality recordings in terms like "DXD", "Double DSD", or "Hi-Res Audio" to consumers than to explain complicated details in recording and sound production.


@Lambeek 
If I had the chance to read what you and @project86 wrote here...some 5-6 years back, I would not have accumulated so many hi-res PCM files from HDTracks over the years. LOL. At that point in time, I obviously had wrong impression that format of source files i.e. DSD or 24-bits/192 kHz files ; is a big contributor to SQ. It was only in recent 1-2 years that I realised that a "properly" remastered/recorded CD 16-bits/44.1kHz of the same albums/tracks could sound more superior to the hi-res PCM files I have in my audio library. These days, if I want to own the music/albums of songs I like, I usually search for high quality remastered CDs instead of hi-res PCM files.

Thanks for sharing these insights; very helpful.


----------



## project86

Well my main point is that hi-res and DSD has _potential_ for superior SQ, but that only comes when everything else is impeccably well done. The recording process, the mastering, etc all plays a massive role, whilst the format is just the last few percentage points.

I do hear an improvement when going from a Reference Recordings 16/44.1 file to playing the same thing in their HRx 24/176.4 version. Something as resolving as the the V590 will show that improvement. But comparing some "hi-res" download of dubious provenance to a CD release of the same album, you never know what you're going to get... so don't just assume the larger file is automatically better.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

well said bro.


----------



## Lambeek (Jul 23, 2020)

AudioPowerHead said:


> @Lambeek
> If I had the chance to read what you and @project86 wrote here...some 5-6 years back, I would not have accumulated so many hi-res PCM files from HDTracks over the years. LOL. At that point in time, I obviously had wrong impression that format of source files i.e. DSD or 24-bits/192 kHz files ; is a big contributor to SQ. It was only in recent 1-2 years that I realised that a "properly" remastered/recorded CD 16-bits/44.1kHz of the same albums/tracks could sound more superior to the hi-res PCM files I have in my audio library. These days, if I want to own the music/albums of songs I like, I usually search for high quality remastered CDs instead of hi-res PCM files.
> 
> Thanks for sharing these insights; very helpful.


Very glad this digression could be helpful.

I still want to make it clear that I'm not an "anti-HiRes" audiophile who ignores the role of the format in high-quality playback. As @project86 has mentioned, how much improvement you can get from a superior audio format depends on the "resolving power" of your system. From my experience, a resolving speaker system can benefit more from Hi-Res/DSD files than a desktop headphone system. For some mobile devices like DAPs and IEMs you might not even tell the difference between the 256kbps AAC and CD-quality FLAC, let along the HiRes files. In regard to the music collection, I do not see any harm in adding some Hi-Res or DSD files to your music library as long as you have a decent system and budget is not an issue

Since it is "the last few percentage points" that some audiophiles are pursuing(including me), I would like to push this digression a little further. First, it's some experiences within the PCM domain. It's not hard to hear the improvement of Hi-Res files over Redbook on some aspects especially airiness/spaciousness, treble and bass extension, even soundstage and dynamics via a resolving system. But this conclusion has two important preconditions: 1. Both Hi-Res file and Redbook file have the same origin(same recording and mastering); 2. They are all digital files in some kind of lossless formats(FLAC, ALAC, etc.). The first one is understandable; the second one seems to be too obvious to mention - but the truth is it's not that "obvious" as it appears to be - at least from my own experience. Theoretically, a 24bit/96khz(the original master quality of most modern recordings) standard is superior to the Redbook. Practically, this is true and you can hear the difference when they're both files and played by a PC or a streamer. However, things become a little bit complicated when you use CD transport for Redbook and a comparable streamer for HiRes. Surprisingly, the HiRes files (24/96 in its master quality) could not win in every aspect. I would say it's 50/50 in most of my listening experiences and would like to describe it as the difference in sound characteristics rather than the difference in absolute SQ. When you rip the CD in FLAC or even in formats without compression(WAV or AIFF), the Redbook somehow loses a bit of its advantage once presented as a physical format. The point here is that there might be more things involving in high-quality playback - a dedicated CD transport can do a far more decent job than you can imagine. These days CDs and CD players are going away from mainstream but at least they show some values in the audiophile world.

As regard to DSD, all I could say is that it might be a commercial failure but definitely not a crappy trick when SQ is the main concern. To my ears, even the single rate DSD is better than 24bit/192kHz PCM, though the latter comes with a higher bitrate (more information?) than DSD64. The sad thing is nowadays the large part of DSD recordings are not actually "pure" DSD. Some of them are converted from PCM recordings, and some are recorded in DSD format, but then converted to "DXD" or other kinds of PCM formats for post-processing and editing. The "pure DSD" pipeline without any kind of intermediate conversion has become very rare in today's recording industry.


----------



## mvule

Glad this has been said because in my experience, a CD played directly in a CD player can just have the edge, well quite a big edge actually, over a ripped CD.
There's just something about the timing, (using a Rega Apollo) which is a bigger deal than I realised until I heard the same ripped files.

Anyway back to the topic of this thread, (before someone gets their rag out!)


----------



## sahmen

For those who know, can the v590 drive a Hifiman Susvara to optimal levels of performance?  Or put in a different way, can it drive the Susvara as well OR optimally as the US4+ can?


----------



## project86

I think US4+ is the better amp for Susvara. No way around that - it's a top-level headphone which is able to take advantage of everything Niimbus has to offer. 

That said, V590 is without a doubt the best I've ever heard Susvara sound from a combo DAC/amp unit, and easily on par with many stand-alone systems.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 24, 2020)

Haven't heard the v590 yet but I doubt it running Susvara worse is about resolution or technicalities, should be more about power and synergy regarding tonality.

Will find out in the next few months.

With the way Hifiman is tackling their new phones, making them easier and easier to drive, I'd wait until next year to see how they will approach a successor in the context of how the HE-1000SE profits from trickle down tech now.

Also someone else is coming with a flagship who has already demonstrated high sensivity in a totl flagship.

Or you simply are content with building around the Susvara now, whatever may come in the future. Then it's the US4+ going by @project86 

Speaking of the US4+. Had a great session with the 4 screw HE-6 last night. Drives it superbly. I wish any of the later Hifimans had that slam and punch.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> Also someone else is coming with a flagship who has already demonstrated high sensivity in a totl flagship.



Beyer T1 3rd gen


----------



## Fegefeuer

T1 Gen 3 comes with tacticle binoculars to watch Mt.Beyer while listening to K Pop@120db


----------



## project86

Just listening to V590 with Kennerton Audio Thekk - beautiful combo! This headphone is neutral and can even be bright when used with some gear, but no such problems with V590.


----------



## DarginMahkum

project86 said:


> Just listening to V590 with Kennerton Audio Thekk - beautiful combo! This headphone is neutral and can even be bright when used with some gear, but no such problems with V590.



Can you compare this to US4(+)? I am in the search for an amp these days. I don't have anything too hard to drive: A Final D8000 Pro on the way and a Denon D9200. And I would not buy anything too hard to drive like LCD4 or Susvara. I am wondering which one makes more sense: V590 or the US4+, and if there is big gap between the two. Oh, and there is a Cavalli Liquid Gold I might have a chance to audition in next week or so.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 27, 2020)

I heard the following Cavalli Amps: the Glass, the Gold, the Crimson. The Glass was the most special by a slight bit but the guy had 1k of tubes in it. Both the Gold and Glass are rather warm though, by a good margin compared to the Crimson. 

Still worth it though for the Glass, HOWEVER:

The Crimson was the most lively, incisive and had the best microdynamics. It is like an insight into music. If human music died out aliens would use it in a museum to have others listen to music through it. 

It's why I never reached out for the Gold or Glass. I would have for the latter but I would miss the attack and transient speed of the Crimson. That's why Crimson is Cavallis best amp.

The Crimson is still special through this day. It unfortunately doesn't reach the US4+ bass sustain, definition and power but it still competes very well. It is SE though and while built very well it's no match for the LP amps which are built to last. Also volume control is good but basic, nothing special. Special in the context of reed relais etc.
Noise, flexibility is also another level. I'm being very nitpicky though.

Unless Cavalli returns and finishes the Liquid Tungsten (which will never happen) there's no way I'd be looking out for other amps besides Fried's and Pass Labs power amps as most were and are dissapointing. 

Imagine Fried doing a hybrid US4+ with a single tube like the Crimson.

Also beware of service and repairs. Right now the only official place to get support is Avenson Audio in the US, unless you know someone able. 

While it is fun to own legendary amps beware of issues that could annoy you over time and turn out costly. 


In the V281 thread a Gold owner posted a comparison. You might extrapolate from there as the V5XX has stepped up the technicalities game quite a bit.

Best listen to the gold with all your headphones and see if you can get a comparison.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Fegefeuer said:


> I heard the following Cavalli Amps: the Glass, the Gold, the Crimson. The Glass was the most special by a slight bit but the guy had 1k of tubes in it. Both the Gold and Glass are rather warm though, by a good margin compared to the Crimson.
> 
> Still worth it though for the Glass, HOWEVER:
> 
> ...



Thank you for the detailed information. I agree, "owning" a legendary amp might give you the chills and nice looking signature, but for the repairs might be a ticking time bomb for someone living in another continent. I think I will stick to local made amps.

I am definitely not after warm signatures. V590 (or a DACless version of it, if ever), UM4(+) are my candidates at the moment. Audio Valve amps were also recommended, but "jack of all trades" approach raises questions for me sometimes, and I am not sure if I would like to enter the world of valves at the moment.


----------



## Fegefeuer

All the good tube amps (EC, DNA etc) are US based so also a matter of support, tax etc.

One of them is retiring unfortunately. You could get one of the last EC amps until they close shop. They offer special goodbye deals but most of the stuff is gone already @Empyah  (german based or based German?) got an EC Studio Jr and he's either going for the V5XX or US4+ for his SS love.

Where are you located?

V281 has reached EOL so a dacless version is naturally inevitable. Expecting October or November. 

Which DAC are you using right now?


----------



## DarginMahkum

Fegefeuer said:


> All the good tube amps (EC, DNA etc) are US based so also a matter of support, tax etc.
> 
> One of them is retiring unfortunately. You could get one of the last EC amps until they close shop. They offer special goodbye deals but most of the stuff is gone already @Empyah  (german based or based German?) got an EC Studio Jr and he's either going for the V5XX or US4+ for his SS love.
> 
> ...



I am actually either portables or speakers person, and never really considered going for a stationary headphone setup until now. But now entering the planar era with D8000 Pro, decided to go for one. So my HPs are D8000 Pro, Denon D9200 and occasionally HD800 (normally used by my wife for studio work). Just to give an idea: I find the Utopia too mid forward and upper mid aggressive in general. For speakers I have a HEDD Tower Mains + oppo 205 setup and I am very satisfied with it - so the oppo 205 serves as a DAC at the moment. I might get a dedicated DAC in the future but that is for later (also my two portables Hiby R8 and DX220MAX).

I don't want to be collecting and buying/selling equipment in this price range too often, so wanted to get something that I will be satisfied with for a long time. As speakers, I am always inclined to studio monitors with dead neutral signature (though both D9200 with its U signature and D8000 Pro might be a bit on the fun side of the spectrum).

I am located in Berlin / Germany.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside (Jul 27, 2020)

DarginMahkum said:


> I am actually either portables or speakers person, and never really considered going for a stationary headphone setup until now. But now entering the planar era with D8000 Pro, decided to go for one. So my HPs are D8000 Pro, Denon D9200 and occasionally HD800 (normally used by my wife for studio work). Just to give an idea: I find the Utopia too mid forward and upper mid aggressive in general. For speakers I have a HEDD Tower Mains + oppo 205 setup and I am very satisfied with it - so the oppo 205 serves as a DAC at the moment. I might get a dedicated DAC in the future but that is for later (also my two portables Hiby R8 and DX220MAX).
> 
> I don't want to be collecting and buying/selling equipment in this price range too often, so wanted to get something that I will be satisfied with for a long time. As speakers, I am always inclined to studio monitors with dead neutral signature (though both D9200 with its U signature and D8000 Pro might be a bit on the fun side of the spectrum).
> 
> I am located in Berlin / Germany.


Since you’re in Germany there’s always the option to reach out to Lake People and take a road trip to Konstanz to get a listen to the V590 and US4+ in person. If/when Americans are able to travel to Europe again(!) I’d really like to go there myself. Fried Reim is a great guy to talk audio component design with as well. As for longevity, I and many others can definitely confirm that Violectric/Niimbus products are built to last a lifetime and are great amps to build a headphone collection around.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 27, 2020)

Yeah, Bodensee is immensely beautiful.

Very worth it to be there for a few days or weeks and of course visit LP to have a good listen.

Wanted to go there too during the summer holidays but i'm stuck between two other locations and I have to write a 15 page essay before the second trip starts. 

About "gewaltfreie Kommunikation" etc.

I would prefer to hook up my headphone setup, have the professor listen to it for an hour and then she would understand how music is the ultimate expression of "gewaltfreie Kommunikation".


----------



## project86

While I have no reservations about recommending the Niimbus US4+ (and you would no doubt love what you hear!) it seems prudent to wait until Violectric releases their next-gen dedicated amp based on V590. It should be just around the corner.

 And since you are fairly local, it also seems very feasible to try them both out in person, either via some local dealer or a trip to Lake People HQ. Then decide for yourself. Nothing I can say to describe the sound will come remotely close to replicating this experience. 


Side note - I really like your quest for purchasing "long haul" gear that you can enjoy well into the future. I think that's an approach many people overlook as they keep switching to the latest/greatest gadgets. I'm guilty of it myself but I like to think it comes with the "reviewer" gig, and that if I was just listening for fun I'd only swap things out every 5-10 years. If that's the case, all the more reason to choose wisely in the first place.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, Bodensee is immensely beautiful.
> 
> Very worth it to be there for a few days or weeks and of course visit LP to have a good listen.
> 
> ...



Bodensee: I know! I am working as a freelancer and I had a project down there a couple of years ago as we were living in Nürnberg and it was absolutely fantastic. Then took some time off, brought our bikes and rode through the small towns / villages around the lake. I miss it now... Still avoiding long distance trips on trains / planes, though, due to covid.

I will stay with the decision between V5XX and US4(+). Looks like "Hifi im Hinterhof" in Berlin has Niimbus and Violectric products. I will visit them after I receive my D8000 Pro, which is like next week and/or after we know more about the V590 based dedicated amp.

Thank you all!



project86 said:


> Side note - I really like your quest for purchasing "long haul" gear that you can enjoy well into the future. I think that's an approach many people overlook as they keep switching to the latest/greatest gadgets. I'm guilty of it myself but I like to think it comes with the "reviewer" gig, and that if I was just listening for fun I'd only swap things out every 5-10 years. If that's the case, all the more reason to choose wisely in the first place.



I have been down that hole hunting (didn't we all) portables, IEMs, HPs etc. Though "new toy" joy is momentarily fun, a few days later the itch come back!


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Lambeek said:


> So you have pre-ordered one? Can't wait to see your impressions and comparison


Sorry for the delay on responding, I didn't get the notification and just saw this browsing the thread.  Yes, I absolutely pre-ordered one.  In fact, I was told I placed the first order lol .  I will post my initial impressions when it comes in.  Maybe after some "break in" time I will try to compare it with my Benchmark HPA4 and Phonitor XE


----------



## GoodEnoughGear

@Fegefeuer thanks for your comments vs Liquid Crimson, that really does help. I'm curious if there's a DAC that seems similar to the V590 so we can get a relative impression?


----------



## F Bizzle

Currently I have the V281 and a Soekris 1541. I'm interested in sliding my listening experience closer towards neutral, however my DAC does compensate for the V281 warmth. 

I typically use a Diana V2, Verité, or Clear. 

I'm extremely on the fence with the V590, but I'm not sure if losing my existing combo is worth it. I'm also tempted to wait for a possible refreshed Soekris line and the next amp only V281 successor. 

Any opinions?


----------



## GoodEnoughGear

F Bizzle said:


> Currently I have the V281 and a Soekris 1541. I'm interested in sliding my listening experience closer towards neutral, however my DAC does compensate for the V281 warmth.
> 
> I typically use a Diana V2, Verité, or Clear.
> 
> ...



I'm also running DAC1541, but through an EC Black Widow 2 where the DAC1541 does balance the warmth of the BW nicely. Sounds somewhat similar to your scenario, except BW2 is likely even warmer. My concern is the V590 may be a sidegrade at best to the Soekris. 

I'm hearing vague hints of new stuff coming from Soren, but I've seen nothing credible so I have no idea what's really happening there.

FWIW I know the DAC15451 amp is lacking, but how does it sit tonally with you as a shift to neutral vs V281? Especially with the Clear? I run HD600 which BW2 was tuned for, but I take direct out of DAC1541 to Genelec 8030's which can be a bit sibilant which would be like the Clear.


----------



## adeeb

AnimalOnDrums said:


> Sorry for the delay on responding, I didn't get the notification and just saw this browsing the thread.  Yes, I absolutely pre-ordered one.  In fact, I was told I placed the first order lol .  I will post my initial impressions when it comes in.  Maybe after some "break in" time I will try to compare it with my Benchmark HPA4 and Phonitor XE



I would be very interested in those comparisons.


----------



## Fegefeuer

GoodEnoughGear said:


> @Fegefeuer thanks for your comments vs Liquid Crimson, that really does help. I'm curious if there's a DAC that seems similar to the V590 so we can get a relative impression?


I can't say anything about the V590 (DAC) yet. After summer maybe.

For now others have to chime in. @project86 and a few of those who preordered.
I could ask a friend to borrow his 1541 but he ripped out the PSU and built his own with the same size as the DAC itself. I don't think that's a helpful reference point for you guys but it surely looks crazy and is very much worth it according to him.


----------



## project86

The DAC section of the V590 is pretty unique - I've not heard anything that I'd say is really similar. I do hear shades of the Yulong DA10, which happens to also be AKM-based. Both have a bit of similar midrange sweetness, just a touch, that I find really engaging. 

Aside from that the V590 DAC feels a little smoother which could be heard as more relaxing/non-fatiguing or else less detailed/precise depending on your viewpoint. Not to say V590 DAC is slow or murky or anything, just the overall presentation is a very liquid well controlled.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

AnimalOnDrums said:


> Sorry for the delay on responding, I didn't get the notification and just saw this browsing the thread.  Yes, I absolutely pre-ordered one.  In fact, I was told I placed the first order lol .  I will post my initial impressions when it comes in.  Maybe after some "break in" time I will try to compare it with my Benchmark HPA4 and Phonitor XE


That’s a nice solid state amp collection right there. I’ve owned the Benchmark, Phonitor 2 and the V281. I’d probably take the V590 over all of those but it’s much better to not have to pick at all!
I’d be very curious to hear your impressions of the V590 dac fronting the Benchmark amp in particular. The sound signatures of those units are so different and the HPA-4 is so transparent, I imagine that combo would give a good sense of what the V590’s dac section is bringing to the table on it’s own.   I heard the V590 dac w/a Niimbus amp and it sounded great, if not quite endgame-caliber, but obviously those amps have the same dna, unlike Benchmark/Violectric. Does the high quality and character of the V590’s sound depend upon the synergetic engineering btwn amp & dac working in concert, or can you mix and match the different sections with other high quality components and get some nice variations on the robust, warm Violectric sound?


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Malcolm Riverside said:


> That’s a nice solid state amp collection right there. I’ve owned the Benchmark, Phonitor 2 and the V281. I’d probably take the V590 over all of those but it’s much better to not have to pick at all!
> I’d be very curious to hear your impressions of the V590 dac fronting the Benchmark amp in particular. The sound signatures of those units are so different and the HPA-4 is so transparent, I imagine that combo would give a good sense of what the V590’s dac section is bringing to the table on it’s own.   I heard the V590 dac w/a Niimbus amp and it sounded great, if not quite endgame-caliber, but obviously those amps have the same dna, unlike Benchmark/Violectric. Does the high quality and character of the V590’s sound depend upon the synergetic engineering btwn amp & dac working in concert, or can you mix and match the different sections with other high quality components and get some nice variations on the robust, warm Violectric sound?


The Niimbus amp not endgame caliber?  That's interesting. Do you think it was the V590 DAC holding it back, or the Niimbus amp itself?
I can definitely mix and match any combination of equipment that I have.  It will be interesting to see how it pairs with the Benchmark and the SPL Phonitor XE, since both are considered to be very detailed and neutral.  While I am sure there is synergy between the DAC and AMP parts of the V590, which is the same thing as synergy between a DAC and AMP separate from the same company, I do think the DAC of the V590 will be very impressive based on what I have read on this thread so far.  Hopefully that will hold true or months of non-patiently waiting for the V590 to ship will be wasted  lol.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

AnimalOnDrums said:


> The Niimbus amp not endgame caliber?  That's interesting. Do you think it was the V590 DAC holding it back, or the Niimbus amp itself?
> I can definitely mix and match any combination of equipment that I have.  It will be interesting to see how it pairs with the Benchmark and the SPL Phonitor XE, since both are considered to be very detailed and neutral.  While I am sure there is synergy between the DAC and AMP parts of the V590, which is the same thing as synergy between a DAC and AMP separate from the same company, I do think the DAC of the V590 will be very impressive based on what I have read on this thread so far.  Hopefully that will hold true or months of non-patiently waiting for the V590 to ship will be wasted  lol.


I was afraid I was kind of unclear! No, the Niimbus is definitely endgame in my book, (famous last words for every audiophile of course), it’s more the V590 dac as a pairing with it that I was saying could be improved upon. The Niimbus is revealing but so enjoyable to listen to that I couldn’t see being unhappy with it as long as the source is halfway decent, but I (for example) upgraded my dac as soon as I could after getting it because I wanted to maximize its potential. Anyway, I digress. I look forward to your impressions. I think you’re in for a treat especially coming from those more clinical/studio-tuned amps.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I was afraid I was kind of unclear! No, the Niimbus is definitely endgame in my book, (famous last words for every audiophile of course), it’s more the V590 dac as a pairing with it that I was saying could be improved upon. The Niimbus is revealing but so enjoyable to listen to that I couldn’t see being unhappy with it as long as the source is halfway decent, but I (for example) upgraded my dac as soon as I could after getting it because I wanted to maximize its potential. Anyway, I digress. I look forward to your impressions. I think you’re in for a treat especially coming from those more clinical/studio-tuned amps.


Oh ok,  that makes sense.  Those Niimbus amps sure are tempting.  Hopefully a Niimbus DAC will come out soon and be a perfect pairing. That will be one amazing stack!   I think you are right on the money too about being in for a treat. I usually prefer something that adds a bit of its own flavor.  While I love the Benchmark (and hopefully the SPL Phonitor XE coming tomorrow) for what it is, I don't need a bunch of amps and DACs that sound very similar. It will be fun to mix everything up and try the different combinations. Gives me something to do while I hibernate in my house


----------



## mat.1

Is the V590 amp is class A ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

DE/EN manual added to the first page


----------



## project86

Just got word that the promo for the free relay-based volume upgrade (normally a $600 option) has been extended through August 7th. Link is HERE. That's a no brainer value for anyone on the fence about V590... the relay volume is excellent.


----------



## gonzfi

Could we get that deal in the UK?


----------



## DarginMahkum

I talked to CMA in Germany this week and they expect V590 to be available for shipping within next two weeks.


----------



## HalloweenJack

OK, the manual confirms it has *+ / - 25 V* internal operating voltage, so less than original series Violectrics that have + / - 30 V.




HalloweenJack said:


> On CMAs official site for this amp ( https://www.cma.audio/en/detail/index/sArticle/2057 ) it says:
> 
> "High Output Voltage - through *50 V* internal operating voltage."
> 
> ...


----------



## HalloweenJack

BTW, The Niimbus US4 has +/- 30 V like the older Violectrics.
Quote from the manual: "Two toroidal transformers each with 25 Watt are providing the internal operating voltages of +/-30 V."



HalloweenJack said:


> OK, the manual confirms it has *+ / - 25 V* internal operating voltage, so less than original series Violectrics that have + / - 30 V.


----------



## the fool

What do you guys think this amp and meier audio corda soul?


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Soul has a way different approach. I don't think it would make sense to compare the v590 to the Soul in "neutral" mode. 

Nobody buys the Soul not to turn knobs and flip switches.

I find the Soul very interesting and would love to play around with it. 

It's built by Lake People btw.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Got the V590 this morning finally.





There is a long way to go for individual impressions of headphones and DAC pairings as I am unfortunately still occupied with a lot of stuff like education/training etc. but I will give you a good insight into this amp over the next weeks, months. I will probably post it in streams of consciousness.

I will try to get a few popular DACs into the mix but that will take even more time. I am thinking about the Hugo 2 for instance. Maybe I can lend a Soekris 1541 for those who own one. Let's see. Fow nor I am not in a hurry to do this as the DAC part is really well done and I have a harder time to qualify DACs compared to amps. 

First impressions: I can now understand why the V281 has been discontinued. When the FE was announced and limited to 100 units which all seem to be gone now I was pondering if it was a good idea to end the shelf life of such a successful product, even though I was excited to see something new. Once it became clear the EOL was bound to happen I secretly wished I could snatch a FE version but as you know these things are not easily paid.

Now what changed my mind was the amp inside the V590 and how it strikes an interesting balance. It leans on the V281 side in terms of euphony and tuning but is on the US4's side on technicalities. The US4+ is a departure from the V281 signature, it is an upgrade in technicalities and performance but not a direct replacement in tuning. The amp inside the V590 bridges the gap. It will give you more refined treble, details, bass sustain and power and overall clarity but yet also dance to the tune of the V281's spirit.
You still have to let go of expecting it to be a full V281 though. Given the performance I don't think it's a hard step to take.

Following with this the V590 naturally requires more careful matching with source gear, more than the V281, less than the US4+.
For instance the pairing of the Yggdrasil Analog 2 with the US4+ is a better idea than pairing Gungnir Multibit with the US4+ as the doubling of incisiveness, the more aggressive, plopping transients and the overall cooler character of the Gungnir make a fairly lively, technical listen but narrow the selection of headphones. Wouldn't want to listen the HEK SE (to exaggerate) with that pairing. Yes, there is always EQ and mods but you hopefully get what I am trying to say with gear matching.

In the background you can see a few AES cables sticking out. The V590 is directly fed from my Lynx AES and the V590 goes into a balanced power supply. No other cables involved. Pretty sleek. Remember, this is a full DAC/AMP unit, no part is just an addon.

The USB card is an Amanero with DSD512 support, ASIO, WASAPI. You need to install drivers under Windows else for instance TIDAL cannot go into exclusive mode.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Fegefeuer said:


> Got the V590 this morning finally.
> 
> 
> There is a long way to go for individual impressions of headphones and DAC pairings as I am unfortunately still occupied with a lot of stuff like education/training etc. but I will give you a good insight into this amp over the next weeks, months. I will probably post it in streams of consciousness.
> ...


Looks great! The way Fried was able to sonically position this amp so exquisitely between the US4+ and the V281 is pretty impressive. I had a Gumby A1 with my old V281 for a while and quite enjoyed the combo, though I found it could be a bit fatiguing after a while with certain cans because of the in-your-face, detailed nature of that dac. A few days ago I got a Bifrost 2 as an alternative to my Wyred4sound 10th anniversary dac, and it’s a nice pairing with the US4+. Only had a little bit of listening time so far but it’s more relaxed than the Gumby, which I appreciate. More research is needed of course! 
Which headphone are preferring with the V590 so far? Looks like a Verité or Aeolus and HEKSE you’ve got there.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I am using the Bifrost 2 with the Niimbus for almost a year now, it's a very good pairing, however the SPDIF input is superior to UNISON. Unison at least gives a slight softness to attacks or transients so it can be a more relaxing listen but Lynx AES to SPDIF is better in many other ways, that's why it's not a matter of flavor anymore unfortunately. However the upcoming transport from Schiit supposedly is designed with Unison in mind so that could change the game.

Thankfully the Lynx can supply a lot more DACs with a great AES/EBU signal and thus comes handy with the V590. 

I mainly listened to my modded HE-6 and the Verité today. The HE-1000SE just looks better than the HE-6 that's why I decided to put up a photo with it.    However it will also have its day sometime this week as the rest of the collection.

Verité is technically and tonally very impressive, however pairing is a difficult thing as high dampening and 0 Ohm output shortens the decay a bit. It becomes more of a technical than romantic showcase but of course it doesn't get polished away and what remains adds to the fine tuning that allows both easier listening and then at the same time battering, getting up and going. It's just a highly capable headphone that never sleeps. Its timbre reminds me a bit of the Fostex family of headphones, just better tuned and much faster, more impressive on transients. Micro- and macrodynamics are outstanding. Only nitpick is that the bass is not as controlled as the HE-6 or let's say how I prefer it. That's nitpicky though.


----------



## qsk78

Do you guys know when they are planning to introduce a new dedicated amplifier? 
Looking forward to a potential upgrade of my current V800/HPA181 combo.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 11, 2020)

Well, V281 successor technically exists so naturally there will also be a dedicated amp. I don't know when and I am still guessing autum. However autumn is near and we have no confirmation. We're in the middle of the holidays now in Bavaria so news will be very slow.

If you're from the US I'd really think about the ongoing deal with grabbing the reed relais for the same price as the RK27 version. A standalone V5XX with reed relais is now very close prise-wise. Might as well grab a great DAC along with it too.

However I understand if people want to have one DAC only or want a "pure" amp.

Edit: ok, you're from Russia, so forget about the deal.


----------



## GoodEnoughGear

Fegefeuer said:


> Well, V281 successor technically exists so naturally there will also be a dedicated amp. I don't know when and I am still guessing autum. However autumn is near and we have no confirmation. We're in the middle of the holidays now in Bavaria so news will be very slow.
> 
> If you're from the US I'd really think about the ongoing deal with grabbing the reed relais for the same price as the RK27 version. A standalone V5XX with reed relais is now very close prise-wise. Might as well grab a great DAC along with it too.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that deal is ended now. IIRC is was 'til the 7th.


----------



## Fegefeuer

you're right, just checked Arthur's page.


----------



## qsk78

Fegefeuer said:


> However I understand if people want to have one DAC only or want a "pure" amp.


Well, ideally the DAC should be Roon Ready and supporting the mqa format (just in case...))


----------



## Fegefeuer

*MQA *


----------



## DarginMahkum

Fegefeuer said:


> Verité is technically and tonally very impressive, however pairing is a difficult thing as high dampening and 0 Ohm output shortens the decay a bit. It becomes more of a technical than romantic showcase but of course it doesn't get polished away and what remains adds to the fine tuning that allows both easier listening and then at the same time battering, getting up and going. It's just a highly capable headphone that never sleeps. Its timbre reminds me a bit of the Fostex family of headphones, just better tuned and much faster, more impressive on transients. Micro- and macrodynamics are outstanding. Only nitpick is that the bass is not as controlled as the HE-6 or let's say how I prefer it. That's nitpicky though.



Firstly, congrats on your V590!  It is interesting how people hear differently. I had the TH900, Verite and now the D9200 and Fostex family of HPs would be the last ones on my list that would remind me the Verite. I actually preferred the tuning of Stellia, and traded the Verite for PM-1 + €$, which was for me more portable (I used to travel a lot) and I loved the low mids clearity of PM-1.

I am still waiting for my D8000 Pro to arrive and will start the audition tours as soon as it arrives.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've been listening to the v590 with the JAR 650 yesterday and been doing the wrong thing with switching between DACs from time to time instead of just letting it flow for a good while. I've been noticing something very interesting though:

The Bifrost 2 image is bigger but in a slightly zoomed way. Every instrument is actually noticably bigger in presence and the stage is thus more forward, more front row. The V590 DAC is less crowded here and you take a few rows back. That was a very interesting to notice. 




DarginMahkum said:


> Firstly, congrats on your V590!  It is interesting how people hear differently. I had the TH900, Verite and now the D9200 and Fostex family of HPs would be the last ones on my list that would remind me the Verite. I actually preferred the tuning of Stellia, and traded the Verite for PM-1 + €$, which was for me more portable (I used to travel a lot) and I loved the low mids clearity of PM-1.
> 
> I am still waiting for my D8000 Pro to arrive and will start the audition tours as soon as it arrives.



oh, to me it's just a timbre and sounding thing that is somewhat reminding me of the japanese headphones I had.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Fegefeuer said:


> I've been listening to the v590 with the JAR 650 yesterday and been doing the wrong thing with switching between DACs from time to time instead of just letting it flow for a good while. I've been noticing something very interesting though:
> 
> The Bifrost 2 image is bigger but in a slightly zoomed way. Every instrument is actually noticably bigger in presence and the stage is thus more forward, more front row. The V590 DAC is less crowded here and you take a few rows back. That was a very interesting to notice.
> 
> ...


Interesting report! I actually found the V281 to have similar properties in terms of having that “few rows back” sound when comparing it to other amps, but of course this could be tweaked some depending on dac pairings. I think Fried favors dynamics over detail for the Violectric series.

The Gumby had a lot of immediacy too if I recall correctly—seems to be a signature of the Schiit sound when they’re not using the AKM chips. It would be an interesting comparison to hear the balanced dac on the Jotunheim with the V590 amp and vice versa, since they both use the same AKM 4490 chip set.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Sep 8, 2020)

I've owned the GumBy for a good while. It's definitely more aggressive than the Bifrost 2 and a bit stronger in macrodynamic swings. It's overall cooler in tonality or less glowing/colorful and transients stand out more, it might be a slightly exaggerated effect with them but it definitely added to the spacing factor when comparing soundstage and headstage.

Yggdrasil is even LESS front row. I personally only had the A1 for a while and it was similar to my GumBy.

Edit: I meant Yggdrasil is less front row, meaning a bit back from the happening than even the Gungnir MB B.


----------



## Mr Geithain (Aug 14, 2020)

@Fegefeuer, do you have the Pro-Version of the v590? if so, what are your Impressions and is the 256 Step Relais Volume-Control that much better and worth to spend the extra Money? did you use it as a preamp for aktiv speakers? (i want to use it mostly for my aktiv speakers and do not know which version i should choose. would you recommend the 256 Step Relais Version and what would be the advantages of this?) Thanks for any help😉👍


----------



## Fegefeuer

Volume control is very important. The reed relais is perfectly linear no matter at what position, it's the most transparent and detailed solution. Was the same with the V281 only that the new generation of LP's relais is quite superior. 

Yes, the upgrade cost is not easy to stomach, it's a whole new headphone or even 2 but still absolutely worth it. 

btw: the volume control of my Cavalli is crapping out, it annoyed me to no end these days. I'm looking to have it upgraded. It only got 5 years old. Touching it vs. using the V590 is a universe of difference. I love the Cavalli though, such a gem. Hopefully I have good options for it.


----------



## Mr Geithain

tranks for your advice Fegefeuer, i‘ll think about it👍😉 is there anyone who got a v590 and uses it with aktiv speakers?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I do but they are no Geithain. I am using KRK RP5 4.


----------



## DarginMahkum

That is also pretty much my plan, to use the V590 / US4+ for my active speakers (HEDD Tower Mains) in addition to my HPs. If any of the other family members (Niimbus or Violectric) perform good as a preamp, I would expect V590 also perform as good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've had the KH120A on the V281 for a good while. Was a good run. I don't know why I sold them, was a bad move. (I do but that would a reference to my name)

@Pharmaboy ist the one to talk to with various preamp configurations and cabling, setups etc. as I recall him using 2341 different speaker pairs at the same time.


----------



## phonomat

DarginMahkum said:


> That is also pretty much my plan, to use the V590 / US4+ for my active speakers (HEDD Tower Mains) in addition to my HPs. If any of the other family members (Niimbus or Violectric) perform good as a preamp, I would expect V590 also perform as good.


I'm very satisfied with the V281 and my little Genelec 8331's, FWIW.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

[/QUOTE]
Hey, I haven't gotten mine yet but it should be here any day


Fegefeuer said:


> Got the V590 this morning finally.
> 
> 
> There is a long way to go for individual impressions of headphones and DAC pairings as I am unfortunately still occupied with a lot of stuff like education/training etc. but I will give you a good insight into this amp over the next weeks, months. I will probably post it in streams of consciousness.



I am so jealous!  Mine has not gotten here yet, but soon hopefully!  MY first question is how does that Relay controlled volume knob feel?  It is super smoother, or does it have little "clicks" that you can feel when using it?  I will also be waiting for some more impression until mine gets here.  Congrats on finally getting one!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Has yours been shipped yet? 

The normal version has steps that you instantly feel, this here not but there's still a tactile feel when moving it, just not stepped. It's not smooth or "fast" like the Crimson, it feels heavier and slower while you can still move it fast if that makes any sense. Of course there's also the psychological effect involved. It's definitely another world both in physical feel, ergonomics and of course electronics.

My Crimson has been shipped away for a volume control change (do not have a list of options yet) as the standard one is bugging out. I still love it but it's kinda infuriating how this can happen unless the previous owner played DJ with it which I strongly doubt because he packaged it like a nuclear bomb and was very fond of it and it also looked that way. 

Volume controls are more important to the sound that we'd want to believe. I'm not only saying this in favor of the focus on volume controls that Fried puts onto but also from a DIY friend who swears by not cheaping out there. He built his own Pass Labs XA25, HPA-1, F7, Autoformers etc... (yes, that's where the Cavalli will go to)


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Yeah it was shipped on Friday, but it sat overseas until Monday or Tuesday, it says it should have come yesterday, then today, now it says tomorrow.  Lol, so who knows when it is coming.  I was hoping for the stepped feeling from the upgraded volume control, but oh well! I will use the remote more anyways.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hm, seems to be a very personal choice. I remember one guy who changed the V281 pot to a total stepless normal one because he wanted it as smooth as possible. It looked kinda dumb though as it was from another amp and much smaller. 

Hopefully you will get it before the weekend and be able to take your time with it. Waht headphones will you be running with them?


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> Hm, seems to be a very personal choice. I remember one guy who changed the V281 pot to a total stepless normal one because he wanted it as smooth as possible. It looked kinda dumb though as it was from another amp and much smaller.
> 
> Hopefully you will get it before the weekend and be able to take your time with it. Waht headphones will you be running with them?


F*CK!  UPS tracking says it was delivered this morning but as I just got home there was no package!  I hope their tracking is wrong.   They are only supposed to deliver stuff to me when I am there and I can sign for it!  yet they never once have.   ARRRGH! Now I have to go figure this out. 

Anyway, yeah, I was hoping to have it delivered to me by this weekend.  I was going to use my LCD-3 with them.  I also have a LCD-4 I am borrowing and a pair of focal utopias coming tomorrow.  Figured that was a good a range to use along with my HD6xx, Ether 2 and Empyreans to test this unit with it showed up...


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's a very nice collection of headphones. What will you be comparing the V590 with?


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

AnimalOnDrums said:


> F*CK!  UPS tracking says it was delivered this morning but as I just got home there was no package!  I hope their tracking is wrong.   They are only supposed to deliver stuff to me when I am there and I can sign for it!  yet they never once have.   ARRRGH! Now I have to go figure this out.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, I was hoping to have it delivered to me by this weekend.  I was going to use my LCD-3 with them.  I also have a LCD-4 I am borrowing and a pair of focal utopias coming tomorrow.  Figured that was a good a range to use along with my HD6xx, Ether 2 and Empyreans to test this unit with it showed up...


That’s a nice rotation you’ve got going there! Good luck giving those LCD-4s back once you start listening to them with the V590. The Utopias should also sound fantastic. Don’t listen to them right after the LCD4 though. Mine always sound real thin coming from those beastly planars


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fegefeuer said:


> That's a very nice collection of headphones. What will you be comparing the V590 with?


Thank you.  The other amps I own are the SPL Phonior XE with DAC768, The Cayin IHA-6 and DAC-6 mk2 stack, and the Benchmark DAC3L and HPA4 stack.  So, I will compare the V590 against them when I get it.



Malcolm Riverside said:


> That’s a nice rotation you’ve got going there! Good luck giving those LCD-4s back once you start listening to them with the V590. The Utopias should also sound fantastic. Don’t listen to them right after the LCD4 though. Mine always sound real thin coming from those beastly planars


Thanks!  Oh I know its going to be hard giving back the LCD-4, but the Meze Empyrean is surprisingly similar.  I love my LCD-3 though.  I am never giving those up.


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## Fegefeuer

Excellent, that's a nice list of gear to compare with.


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## DarginMahkum

This week my D8000 Pro arrived and I am ready for the listening tours!!! Targets for the next week are V590 /US4 and T+A HA200 (for which I also received a good deal from a dealer). I will report back if I have the chance to compare.


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## F Bizzle (Aug 22, 2020)

I missed my V281, but this finally arrived.

Looking to enjoy it with a Diana V2, Verité (O), and Clears. I still have a Soekris 1541 and a BF2, but that will see action later.


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## AnimalOnDrums

DarginMahkum said:


> This week my D8000 Pro arrived and I am ready for the listening tours!!! Targets for the next week are V590 /US4 and T+A HA200 (for which I also received a good deal from a dealer). I will report back if I have the chance to compare.



A comparison between the V590 and the T+A HA200 would be awesome.  I am really interested in it.  It seems like it would be, or is, an amazing product.  I love the meters on that thing (makes my ADHD happy) along with the matching colored display.  It is obviously going for a more polished look than the industrial style of the Vioelectric V590 and I love both.  It will be really interesting to hear how similar or different they sound.


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## DarginMahkum (Aug 22, 2020)

AnimalOnDrums said:


> A comparison between the V590 and the T+A HA200 would be awesome.  I am really interested in it.  It seems like it would be, or is, an amazing product.  I love the meters on that thing (makes my ADHD happy) along with the matching coloured display.  It is obviously going for a more polished look than the industrial style of the Vioelectric V590 and I love both.  It will be really interesting to hear how similar or different they sound.



This week I was about to pull the trigger for HA200 but fortunately black was not available in the stocks and that helped me to hold myself before I do anything silly.  I am actually more interested in an analog only device, so V590 is for me to get a feeling for what will come in that family, whcih is also why I am hesitant with HA200. Also HA200 does not have an _official_ pre output, but T+A told me that the XLR HP output can be used as pre-out and they officially sell (a cheap looking but €97) cable for that purpose.

On the paper, both LP and T+A devices have interesting features, and what I like practical with LP is the adjustable gains, and with the HA200 is the adjustable output impedance / damping factor which varies from 8 to 80 ohms. But for IEMs that 8 ohms output impedance will probably ruin the sound of a hybrid IEM.

Someone that tried both US4+ and HA200 told me that HA200 might match my HPs better, but do I want an all-in-one device? Not sure. I was also considering the HPA4 and also got a good offer for it, but as I understand it might not be the best match for my HPs. I can't hear it anywhere here, so I am also hesitant to order without hearing it.

The D8000P is something that I could build around. I will probably never buy anything like Abyss or LCD4 due to weight, and I didn't have the wow factor I had with D8000P from any Hifiman HPs (though didn't try the Susvara). This could also be due to my (lack of) hearing.  I do value good clear bass a lot, and D8000P has it spot on. Does everything I throw at it well, and there is nothing artificial in the sound. So I reached the endgame status on the open back front.

Tone shaping of HA200 is what makes it interesting for me. I could only find a Korean site only that has a detailed review of it (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ko&tl=en&u=http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=luric&logNo=222036325514).

Like many others here, I am very interested in hearing how V590 (family) sounds compared to Niimbus devices. So let the impressions floooow!


----------



## Fontaine

@AnimalOnDrums, did you get your V590 ? 
I'm quite anxious to see your feedback on how it sounds with a bunch of pretty awesome amps and headphones you were going to test it with


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Fontaine said:


> @AnimalOnDrums, did you get your V590 ?
> I'm quite anxious to see your feedback on how it sounds with a bunch of pretty awesome amps and headphones you were going to test it with


I did finally get it!  It came just earlier this week.  It's a long story involving the original one getting lost/stolen from UPS. I will tell maybe later tonight or tomorrow. First impressions are that thing is just as amazing as I hoped.  It has everything you would want from a solid state amplifier and/or a DAC.  Yesterday I did go back and forth a bit with the Benchmark HPA4 and DAC3L using my Empyreans and the two things I immediately noticed is that the V590 has a warmer and smoother sound that I thoroughly enjoy.  It also has a wider soundstage for the vocals making them sound not as in your face as the HPA4.  This is not a huge difference, but it was noticeable.  It has plenty of power. I can't go any louder than 11 o'clock with my LCD-3 and 10 o'clock using my Empyreans.  The volume control starts at 7 o'clock, so I am not using any of its power.  I am going to adjust the pre-gain settings on the back to give myself more volume adjustment range. I got the Pro model that comes with the relay controlled volume and was surprised that it is completely smooth.  Its really nice though and works perfectly with the remote control.  I haven't experimented with the oversampling options on the DAC, but a difference is heard between them, so I will have to figure out which one I use (if any) or if I let Roon do my oversampling.  Lots to mess wit hand figure out but I will get there soon and do some comparisons.


----------



## Fontaine

AnimalOnDrums said:


> Lots to mess wit hand figure out but I will get there soon and do some comparisons.


Oh yes, I bet you have many hours of happy listening ahead  
Just wanted to ask you to do a comparison that I'm particularly interested in, whenever you have time. I'd like to hear your impressions on these two options:
1). RME ADI-2 fs (as a DAC) + SPL Phonitor XE (as an amp) + the brightest headphones you have at hand
2). RME ADI-2 fs + Violectric V590 + the same headphones

I'm trying to figure out which of the two amplifiers - V590 or Phonitor XE - will be a better pairing for bright and analytical headphones. I actually have HD800 which are notoriously bright, so it's not easy to decide on the amp. You may not have HD800, but I guess any headphones that are on the brighter side in your collection, should be good enough for this comparison.

I remember lots of people compared Phonitor Xe vs Violectric V281 a while ago and most of the folks would end up saying V281 had a warmer, more tubey flavor. Now that the V281 is in the past and with V590 being supposedly a bit more neutral, I assume Phonitor and the V590 should offer a very similar sound signature. So, that's quite an interesting comparison to do. 

I think classical, jazz and vocal recordings would be more indicative, but it's totally up to you of course


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

Apologies for keeping anyone waiting, but I'll just say that there was a mix up with UPS and my original shipment.  Ironically, I was the first person to place a pre-order for this unit. I want to mention that Arthur from Power-Holdings-Inc, who everyone already knows is awesome, was really helpful and just amazing to work with through this frustrating ordeal with UPS.  I also want to mention that I am in no way bashing on the hard working UPS drivers, nor placing blame on them for the delay in me getting my V590.  I know that the drivers are and have been overloaded and overworked and I appreciate their continued efforts during COVID-19.

Ok, moving on.  Because of the late arrival of my V590, my timeline got screwed up.  I had to give back the LCD-4 I was borrowing, but I'll try to get them back or find an Abyss Diana Phi to borrow.

@Fontaine Unfortunately I do not have the RME ADI-2 DAC anymore. I kept the Benchmark DAC3L since I like it better. I have been doing comparisons using the Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC to the v590 and the Phonitor XE. The brightest headphones I have right now are the Utopias.  Neither as bright as the HD800 though

As amplifiers alone they sounded pretty similar when using the Benchmark DAC3L, as you guessed. The main differences (which aren't huge, but are noticeable) are the that the V590 has a warmer sound signature and the vocal soundstage is a little more forward on the Phonitor.  The lower end and lower midrange of the V590 is a little fuller and has a little bit more body, which I think is part of what contributes to the warmer sound signature of the V590.  Both amps are very detailed but I feel instrument separation and imaging is more pronounced on the V590 giving it a more holographic effect, while the SPL is a more focused sound.  This was most noticeable on older recordings (like Jimi Hendrix) where the instruments are more panned to the left and right, and going down the "New Jazz" playlist in Qobuz. When switching to the LCD-3 or the Empyrean from the Utopias, the warmer sound signature was a little more noticeable.  

I haven't done a comparison where I run the DACs of the V590 and the SPL Phonitor XE through the Benchmark HPA 4 yet, but I will soon.


----------



## Fontaine

Nice! Thanks, @AnimalOnDrums. Appreciate the detailed answer.


----------



## DarginMahkum

AnimalOnDrums said:


> A comparison between the V590 and the T+A HA200 would be awesome.  I am really interested in it.  It seems like it would be, or is, an amazing product.  I love the meters on that thing (makes my ADHD happy) along with the matching colored display.  It is obviously going for a more polished look than the industrial style of the Vioelectric V590 and I love both.  It will be really interesting to hear how similar or different they sound.



Unfortunately, I didn't do a comparison between the two, as after I tried the HA200, I directly went ahead and ordered it, and have been enjoying it a lot for about a week. Maybe for some it would sound strange to order something without going through the usual "audiophile process", but I just didn't feel the need to. Due to the lowest output impedance of 8 ohms HA200 may not be the best match for IEMs, so if you are after driving your <10 ohms, multi BA, hybrid IEM with it, I would suggest to consider something else like US4 or V590, otherwise it is extremely good.


----------



## Thraex (Sep 19, 2020)

AnimalOnDrums said:


> @Fontaine Unfortunately I do not have the RME ADI-2 DAC anymore. I kept the Benchmark DAC3L since I like it better. I have been doing comparisons using the Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC to the v590 and the Phonitor XE. The brightest headphones I have right now are the Utopias.  Neither as bright as the HD800 though
> 
> As amplifiers alone they sounded pretty similar when using the Benchmark DAC3L, as you guessed. The main differences (which aren't huge, but are noticeable) are the that the V590 has a warmer sound signature and the vocal soundstage is a little more forward on the Phonitor.  The lower end and lower midrange of the V590 is a little fuller and has a little bit more body, which I think is part of what contributes to the warmer sound signature of the V590.  Both amps are very detailed but I feel instrument separation and imaging is more pronounced on the V590 giving it a more holographic effect, while the SPL is a more focused sound.  This was most noticeable on older recordings (like Jimi Hendrix) where the instruments are more panned to the left and right, and going down the "New Jazz" playlist in Qobuz. When switching to the LCD-3 or the Empyrean from the Utopias, the warmer sound signature was a little more noticeable.
> 
> I haven't done a comparison where I run the DACs of the V590 and the SPL Phonitor XE through the Benchmark HPA 4 yet, but I will soon.


Hi  @AnimalOnDrums I'd like to know if you've done some more testing comparison between Phonitor X vs V590 after more time with them, it'll be also extremely interesting to know V590 internal DAC vs external DAC3L.
Let us know THKS!


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

DarginMahkum said:


> Unfortunately, I didn't do a comparison between the two, as after I tried the HA200, I directly went ahead and ordered it, and have been enjoying it a lot for about a week. Maybe for some it would sound strange to order something without going through the usual "audiophile process", but I just didn't feel the need to. Due to the lowest output impedance of 8 ohms HA200 may not be the best match for IEMs, so if you are after driving your <10 ohms, multi BA, hybrid IEM with it, I would suggest to consider something else like US4 or V590, otherwise it is extremely good.



Ha ha that's awesome!  I don't think it is strange as I have done the same thing. I didn't know about the 8 ohm output impedance though, so that is good to know beforehand.  I am sure it is amazing and I hope you enjoy it!



Thraex said:


> Hi  @AnimalOnDrums I'd like to know if you've done some more testing comparison between Phonitor X vs V590 after more time with them, it'll be also extremely interesting to know V590 internal DAC vs external DAC3L.
> Let us know THKS!



TL;DR: The V590 is warmer sounding and more holographic than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.

Yes, I have done a lot of playing around and mixing and matching. As you can probably tell, I am not the best at taking what I hear and describing it with the proper vocabulary, but I will try my best. The DAC section of the V590 has definitely opened up a bit more since first listening to it.  Nothing too major but it sounds like it has settled into its groove and the mids and highs have bloomed a bit.  Before I go into details, it is important to know that I think the Benchmark DAC3L with the HPA4, along with the Phonitor XE are absolutely wonderful and the differences I am trying to describe are not major (unless noted) and are not necessarily better or worse, just different. The V590 DAC is detailed and rich.  It is a little bit on the warm side of neutral with a thicker sound that the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.  The DAC from the Phonitor XE and the DAC3L sound more similar than either of them do to the V590. The V590 is also not quite as bright as the Phonitor XE or the DAC 3L and has a bit more lower midrange tonality to it, which makes it sound not as analytical as the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE. It is still very detailed and transparent though.  The soundstage and imaging qualities that I mentioned in my last post definitely come from the DAC portion of the V590 and carry over when using the Benchmark HPA4 as an amp, so it has a bit wider soundstage than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.  The DAC3L is more forward sounding, especially with vocals, and the Phonitor XE sits between the DAC3L and the V590 in this context. I would say that the V590 has the most holographic sound though with the vocals being not as forward or centered in comparison to the DAC3L. Routing the V590's DAC through the Phonitor XE's amp gives it a little bit more liveliness compared to running it through the HPA4 or the V590s own AMP, but not by much.  You can still get a sense of the V590's holographic sound, but it is not as pronounced as when using the V590s own amp.  At this level, all of the amps are powerful, clean and have great volume controls.  I hear the differences between the DACs a lot more than I do the differences between the amps.  One advantage of the V590s DAC is that it has selectable upsampling.  It does both PCM and DSD (not DoP, which the DAC3L uses) but I have only used the PCM settings since I don't use DSD that much.  It gives you the option of x1, x2, and x4 upsampling in combination with selectable filter curves.  While the differences are pretty small, you can absolutely hear them.  They are more pronounced on the V590 DAC than on my Cayin DAC which uses an ESS 9028pro.  The DAC3L also uses the 9028pro chip but does not let you select the sampling rates or the filters. The filters don't so much act like an EQ (since they work in the region above our hearing), but they change the "airiness" and the spatial orientation of what you are hearing.  For example: the 2x sampling rate will sometimes sound slightly brighter than the 1x or no resampling.  Changing filters may bring the drum cymbals a tiny bit forward or have the vocals be a tiny bit less prominent.  I hope I explained that in a way everyone can understand.  If I had to pick one set up it would be the V590 simply because I enjoy the warmer and buttery sound.  As a unit the V590 has more bass than either of the other setups and I really like the holographic sound it gives. When I close my eyes while listening on the V590 I feel like I am more immersed in the sound, like I am floating there and the music is not coming from a direction, it is just there.  These are probably the two biggest differences between the V590, and the Benchmark DAC3L and Phonitor XE. This one is definitely a keeper.  Ok, that's all I got for now, thanks for reading!


----------



## Thraex

AnimalOnDrums said:


> TL;DR: The V590 is warmer sounding and more holographic than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.



Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.

Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
You point the warmer sound signature is more on the DAC portion, do you think it's better to wait for the upcoming Violectric no DAC version using LCD-3?
Does speed improve with Phonitor XE vs V590 amp only portion or is the same?

Regarding the stepped attenuators I always disliked the audibility/feeling of them: phisycally feel the steps turning the knob, hearing their clicks inside headphones while listening to music and even the not continuos fine adjustment of volume (sometime a tiny bit bring all in focus).
Could you describe the V590 stepped volume control feeling and useability in more detail?

Thank you very much to share your experience with us!


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## gimmeheadroom

Fontaine said:


> Oh yes, I bet you have many hours of happy listening ahead
> Just wanted to ask you to do a comparison that I'm particularly interested in, whenever you have time. I'd like to hear your impressions on these two options:
> 1). RME ADI-2 fs (as a DAC) + SPL Phonitor XE (as an amp) + the brightest headphones you have at hand
> 2). RME ADI-2 fs + Violectric V590 + the same headphones
> ...



The RME's EQ is enough to tame the 800's treble. The amp after that is not part of the equation.

For the record, I have the V280 and I don't consider it warm. I think it's very faithful and maybe even a little austere.


----------



## Arniesb

Thraex said:


> Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.
> 
> Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
> Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
> ...


You can wait amp version of this. Violectric amp pair very well with clean sounding sabre dacs or with chord dacs.
I find that clear dacs with strong attack pair very well with smooth sounding amps in general. Such combo fit very well with most headphones.


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## AnimalOnDrums

Thraex said:


> Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.
> 
> Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
> Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
> ...


Hey @Thraex ,
No problem! I am happy to answer your questions as best I can.  I do not think there is too much warmth with the LCD-3.  When I say that the DAC and the Amp are warmer that the Phonitor or the Benchmark set, it is not a large difference at all.  I think Fegefeuer described the sound of the V590 perfectly by saying it is not as warm as the V281but a little bit warmer than the Niimbus US4 and US4+, which are very neutral.  I think another good way to explain it is simply that the warmth I am referring to simply takes away that clinical super clinical aspects of the sound and presents the music with a more musicality.   The V590 is also not slower than either the Benchmark set or the Phonitor XE.  I find that speed is very headphone dependent with all of these set ups as well.  With the Mr. Speakers Ether 2, the V590 sounds lighter and punchier than it does with the LCD-3 and the extra bass is perfect because the Ether 2 is not as heavy in the low end as the LCD-3.  

The volume control on the V590 pro uses Reed relays, which are controlled magnetically so it is a completely smooth volume control and does not have any clicks.  Just like the Phonitor XE and the Benchmark HPA4, the volume control is motorized so it can be controlled by a remote control as well as by hand.  The motorized volume knobs have a little bit of resistance to them.  It's nothing major, but you can tell they are motorized.  On the V590, there is no resistance and the volume control turns almost effortlessly.  Like the Benchmark set, the V590 has a remote control that controls everything that amp can do except for powering it on and off.  The Phonitors don't come with a remote and you can only program a remote to control the volume.  When you are sitting next to the amp a remote does not really matter and just having remote volume control on the Phonitor is fine unless you want to continually change the settings on the Phonitor.

One thing the Phonitor has that neither of V590 or HPA4 has is cross feed control.  This makes a big difference for some people.  For me, the differences between all the settings were small, but noticeable.  I leave the settings off, but that is just my personal taste. 

In the end, you are going to be extremely happy with either the V590 or the Phonitor. I am not trying to convince you to buy the V590 or to not buy it. If you already have a DAC you love and are just looking for an amp, then you should probably go with the Phonitor since it will be 1/2 the price.  I was told that other units in the new Vioelectric line up are not that close to coming out.  If you want just an amp, it's going to be a little while.


----------



## musicus

Can anyone please confirm if I can play dsd files from my laptop (MacBook Pro) on the V590? Presumably via USB / DoP?


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## AnimalOnDrums

musicus said:


> Can anyone please confirm if I can play dsd files from my laptop (MacBook Pro) on the V590? Presumably via USB / DoP?


Yes, it plays DSD files natively


----------



## Fegefeuer

V590's amp section pairs very well with the Bifrost 2 which would be considered warm, romantic in comparison to a unit like the X-Sabre Pro.
It's all a matter of the full chain though, as usual. I had the Gungnir B + V281 combo and I don't want to imagine what a Sabre would inflict. The Gungnir combination was absolutely sublime but could sometimes go a bit wild with the wrong (brighter) headphone. So there are no easy absolutes with gear matching.

For instance. My HE-6 No.1 is tonally the better match for the V590's amp than for the US4+ as the treble is a bit more lively than I want it to be sometimes. And it's modded very intensively. My second (unmodded) HE-6 pairs with the US4+ better. While Hifiman driver matching was always pretty good and consistent, there are slight outliers.
I can counter case one with other pads though.

Just saying this to remark that building a chain is not that easy sometimes as many factors are involved.

I think the LCD-3 will pair very well just as it did with the V281 already, with more enhanced technicalities now. However I doubt it scales as good as the 650/6XX.
Those two are crazy good on the US4+. Did not have enough time to listen to both on the V590 with holidays etc... Will do of course.

Remember that while the US4+ is their most neutral high end amp to date, it is absolutely not tuned to sound clinical. You will never get a such an amp from Fried.


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## Thraex (Sep 21, 2020)

Thank you very much @AnimalOnDrums and @Fegefeuer for the detailed answers.
I'm convinced to order the V590, now the last question is stepper (Pro) or normal pot?
I don't know the technicalities of Reed relays and never owned one, I've understood turning the knob is physically without steps/clicks and buttery smoolth, but what about hearing any noise inside the headphone while turning the volume? Can you hear the "tic-tic-tics" or it's totally silent?


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## F Bizzle (Sep 21, 2020)

I wouldn't say that there are any ticks/stepping as you turn the knob. I think the intent is perfectly smooth volume adjustment. However, if the headphone is extremely efficient, you might hear some static initially when you start turning the knob. I've heard it on the V281 and other amps that use a DACT type attenuator. I hear it more with a ZMF Verité than a DT880 660ohm for example.

Also I agree that the Bifrost 2 pairs extremely well with the V590. To my ears, the V590 deviates from the V28X sound to where it is a more neutral amp. I had to compensate with the slight treble roll-off and warmth (in my opinion) on my V281 with a more analytical DAC like the Soekris 1541. The V590 and 1541 was still good, but not an ideal pairing for me as it was too analytical for my most used headphones, but likewise, the BF2 wasn't my ideal match with the V281 for me, but it is awesome on the V590. Overall, it has been a great amp for me coming from the V281.

I think if at times you are not happy with the warmth of the V281, the V590 is a refreshing change of pace. I was initially surprised on how big of a difference it was for me moving from the V281 to the V590. Though, I wouldn't say I felt that the V281 is slow or unable to keep up on busy songs. I do think that amp might be a little more DAC picky as I felt I had build a chain that would compensate and play to each components strength. The V590 is probably less picky and in a sense,  it is probably more compatible more DACs and headphones that I've played with in my chain.


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## Fegefeuer

I hear it with the HE-1000SE easier than with any other phone but I'm the wrong guy to ask as I'm not bothered by it. I don't adjust volume like Amelie Lens turns knobs.

The only thing that bothered me with this type of control was the overshoot of the V281's relais when using sensitive headphones. TH-900 balanced with upped gain from the previous listening session was a game of LIFE AND DEATH as the initial overshoot when reducing the volume made me wince often enough.


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## Zaek

Anyone can share how the remote control looks like?


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## AnimalOnDrums

Here ya go!  I really like the feel of it.  It is heavier than it looks so it feels really solid.


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## Fegefeuer

Here is US4+ and the Bifrost 2


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## sahmen (Sep 29, 2020)

Any idea of the ETA of the DAC-LESS version of the V590?  I guess another question should even precede that one : Have Lake People/Violectric actually confirmed that such an amp, a V590 minus the DAC, is indeed in the works, or is this product a mere figment of the overeager imagination of Violectric fanboys and fangirls?


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## Fegefeuer

It's real. I don't know when it'll release.


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## F Bizzle

I haven't heard of when a DAC-less version will be out. The DHA V380 is available first though.

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V380-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p238871968


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## Fegefeuer

Yep, DAC/AMPs first then later standalone amps. Remember they are also including former Lake People branded gear with new versions under the Violectric brand. All in new cases etc. too. They are very busy.


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## Zaek

Wow, the remote looks really good. Thanks for sharing


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## Fegefeuer

The DAC part of the V590 is really good and I think it'll remain very underestimated as most AIO devices are mostly lacking in the amp then (if) in the DAC,
and previous LP devices had a small "fallback DAC" you could install. Perceptions are a very strong thing of course.

You also notice this through many who eagerly await the V281 successor and want to skip the V590. Pretty understandable with all the established chains and DACs. Still:

I've been using with various amps now. The US4+, a custom Pass Labs HPA-1 with improved PSU and components and the Liquid Crimson.
Both the Bifrost 2 and the V590 are connected via the Lynx (in the case of the BF2 impossible without an impedance adapter to SPDIF) so I always had a good basis to compare both.

The V590 DAC has slightly more air than the Bifrost 2, similar extension but slightly more incisiveness, more crunch for guitars and less warm overall.

Staging is less crowded and less "zoomed in" (already mentioned this, instruments appear bigger than "usual" with the BF2) when staging and imaging. Note. Crowded does not mean congested. It's just that its more forward and the bigger images take more space. V590's DAC has the better field of view and sorts objects in the space with more oversight if you want it to see it that way.

Bifrost 2 is warmer, more romantic, has a warm euphonic winter's night bass that has that famous palpatable tactility. The V590 seems slightly faster, more controlled there and thus appears with more clarity. Still it's nothing clinical at all, it still has a slight softness to the treble, it's just less "wet" and soft than the Bifrost 2. Incisiveness on the V590 is a welcomed thing by the Crimson which is softer than both the pass and the V590's amp. 

The V590's amp and the custom Pass amp are actually quite similar, except that the V590 is slighty warmer and the bass has more sustain power down low and is less lean. That's part of the inheritance from the Niimbus. Transparency and detail are all there with both. Remember that's not the regular HPA-1. 

V590's DAC is a better pairing for the Liquid Crimson than the Bifrost 2 as it counters the softness in the context of both other amps. 

Bifrost 2 softens the hyperathletic HPA-1 and does the same to the V590's amp but does not draw out the V590's DAC to a duel. The V590 DAC and amp are simply very well matched. Something that everybody expects though. Still the BF2 will be a great match for the standalone amp, no doubt. Also for the HPA-1.

Listening session was with the HE-1000SE. 
Tomorrow it's the Verité's turn.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 4, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> The DAC part of the V590 is really good and I think it'll remain very underestimated as most AIO devices are mostly lacking in the amp then (if) in the DAC,
> and previous LP devices had a small "fallback DAC" you could install. Perceptions are a very strong thing of course.
> 
> You also notice this through many who eagerly await the V281 successor and want to skip the V590. Pretty understandable with all the established chains and DACs. Still:
> ...



Nice set of impressions there.  If you ever get to hear a Susvara on the 590, i"d really like to hear your impressions about that too.


----------



## Fegefeuer

sahmen said:


> Nice set of impressions there.  If you ever get to hear a Susvara on the 590, i"d really like to hear your impressions about that too.



I'm trying to get a loaner but currently I don't have any real source unfortunately. Don't know any German Susvarians (yes, this is what you will be classified from here on, my dear Susvarian) that would like to let theirs go for a few weeks.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Oct 4, 2020)

This post is very similar to the one I made in the Verité thread but is more focussed on the amp side. I will still leave the parts in about tonality matching of the Verité with its pads for completeness:

So here's the edited version:


*ZMF Verité*, FAW Noir Hybrid HPC
*DACs* : Violectric V590, Schiit Bifrost 2
*Amps*: Custom Pass Labs HPA-1 with superior PSU and overall components, Cavalli Liquid Crimson with Telefunken E88CC, V590's amp aka V5XX

*overall clarity/transparency*: HPA-1, then V590 (let's say 90%) and then Liquid Crimson. HPA-1 is the leanest and most linear of the bunch. This of course also helps in perceiving clarity and transparency. V590 has slightly warmer treble but actually not by much. V590 has the best bass presence of all three and this also adds to the overall warmth. I wish the HPA-1 had that kind of bass presence too. Would have "helped" its more linear and leaner nature. Note: Lean != anemic or thin. It's always in the context of the other gear. HPA-1's extension is not lacking at all!

*overall linearity*: HPA-1, then V590/Liquid Crimson. See above. HPA-1 is kinda ruler-flat if such a thing exists but not boring or dead sounding like THX amps. Not at all. This is how you design a linear amplifier instead of deadening everything. Absolutely masterful but it also means that pairing headphones is least forgiving. Ranking for ruthlessness: HPA-1 > V590 > Cavalli Liquid Crimson. Yes, pairings on the Cavalli are not fail-safe at all. It's after all no bloomy, tubey, superwet sound amp but very close to the other two.

*bass presence*, body/palpatibility: V590 > HPA-1 > Liquid Crimson. V590 is more palpatible in the bass and a bit more enhanced than both. It definitely shares some of the bass presence of the US4+. It's the most potent but not bassy. Hard to describe bass presence. Do not see it as volume or equalization but the feeling of bass and how it lingers, sustains, "strikes, hits, pounds" and how you believe "being there".

*mid tonality*: Liquid Crimson (with the TF E88CC 1967) and HPA-1 are the most linear here actually. V590 gives a bit more body for male vocals and makes them more present. I would definitely say there's a very slight bonus in the lower mids but not by much. Very very slightly. It will not make your lower mid "enhanced" headphone speak like an Uruk-Hai, don't worry.

*treble character/tonality*: This is kinda easy to assess from the above descriptions. The HPA-1 and the V590 share a very fine delicate, grain-free treble that is very well extended though and sparkles with microdetails and leaves you with tasteful decay. Not dryness, no unnatural cutoff. The V590 as expected comes off slightly warmer but it's not really far off so the V281 experience does not apply here which makes pairing a different game. Not as strong as the HPA-1 and the US4+ but still, it changes the game.

See @F Bizzle 's important remark when pairing the Bifrost 2 with the V590 vs the V281.

The PSU sections of both are very well implemented, it's just magnificient to see how both amps can impose their signature without adding glaring flaws.
The Cavalli is the least bright of the bunch here and as stated slightly softer, more forgiving but still an incisive, lively amp, make no mistake.
The tube imposes its own magic onto the sound, giving the treble a "see-throughness" character, making the Cavalli the most holographic amp here.

*Micro/Macro/Quattro Spaghettino, involvement factor*:

I have a hard time holding these 3 very apart here. The Liquid Crimson really is a master of microdynamics and involvement. It's why I believe it's held in such high regard until this day. It really outshines it's comparative "inferiority" in macrodynamic swings. V590 is the most potent in macrodynamic swings and it also has the right bass potency to leave its mark on the listener. The HPA-1 is somewhere in the middle, albeit a bit more on the leaner side but still as capable as the V590. Both solidstates have a fixed tonality and character whereas naturally the Cavalli offers variance through tubes but not to the degree as we know of much more thorough tube based designs. All three amps are designed to be involving and deeply digging into the music and all three excel. During my evaluation (with the Verite and HE-1000SE) I only timed the listening session so that I did not needlessly burn through the Cavalli's tube to get as much quality time with it as possible. It was that good of a session, it had to be min/maxed. That's how much I cherish all three.

If there's one trait where you should not hold one of these 3 accountable, it's resolution. I would not bother much honestly: There is nothing that one amp does noticably better than the other, BUT there are important differences that unavoidably result in a ranking:

HPA-1 and the V590 are more transparent and actually really similar in many more ways than to the Crimson, they are more "true to the source" than the Cavalli. No doubt. As clean as the Cavalli is it does not reach both amps there and does not share their blackground. It makes for a less "studio sound" as the designer of the HPA-1 told me when he was comparing mine with his work. He even called it a cassette experience but being a former master of cassette tapes during my childhood and youth I do not agree here. However sometimes words have to be more striking to help distinguishing and I appreciate his ruthlessness as much as the ruthlessness of the HPA-1.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To get back to my assessment of the Verité with these 3 amps:

Here's my ranking with the Verité Pads in terms of best pairings where the goal is not get fatigued quickly like a modern overprocessed pop song on an untreated HD 800 with Sabre Glare:

1) Cavalli Liquid Crimson
2) V590 ~ Pass Labs HPA-1

The Verité's transients are sharper and more aggressive with the Verité pads, there's also a slight emphasis in the upper treble that the Universe pads compensate if needed or wished for. Both pads have their fans after all. Overall I like the Verité pads best.

The Cavalli counters the Verité pads best. Despite its incisiveness it's still slightly softer than both other amps and takes a bit off the initial shot, striking the absolute best balance between liveliness and peakiness. Also breathes in a bit of romance with the 67's(?) Telefunken ECC88 singing and glowing in the middle of this phenomenal amp.

V590 "counters" with a slightly warmer treble than the HPA-1 and the best bass fundament of both. It inherits US4+'s sustain and presence but not to the same extent. Still something the Verité "rewards". In terms of treble it does not reach the Cavalli's balance though as it's less "rolled off" or less warm.

I placed both the V590 and the HPA-1 on the same stage in the end as despite the HPA-1 going more forward and ruthlessly through with absolute linearity the treble response of both is not that far off and both kinda land in the same "aggressiveness" territory after all. This custom HPA-1 uses a better PSU and better components than the original one, it's an absolute magnificient headphone amp but it's the most linear and leanest of all three. It should be placed on number 3 but since it's not decisive enough I made both share the spot. Someone has to be number 1.

Now here's my ranking with the Universe Pads in terms of best pairings

1) V590
2) Cavalli Liquid Crimson ~ HPA-1

Positions change slightly here. The Universe Pads are now as expected warmer, softer for the Cavalli and it loses the balance that it previously held with the Verité pads.
The V590's again in the middle of both amps. In the middle of treble tonality, with sharper transients than the Cavalli, better bass presence than both.

HPA-1 again as expected cutting through everything. The universe pads can only do so much. Note, the HPA-1 is not a bright amp in the sense we would call a HD 800 a bright headphone. It is masterfully tuned, it simply is tuned to be more linear than both other amps and thus needs more careful matching. The Verité despite its perceived character is potentially aggressive. It's a highly technically capable masterpiece that blends Utopian technicalities with romance.


----------



## lexterminator

Looking forward to the V590 without a DAC. I currently use a pair of V100 and V200 that I really enjoy and to my taste they pair well with my Beyer headphones T1.1 (high S/N), AKT1P, AKT5P.1. I have a pair of T90's coming in a few days to complete the palette of brightness  In terms of DAC I have an internal XMOS 24/192 in the V100, ModiMB, Teac UD-505 (AK4497), SMSL M300MKII (also AK4497) and Gustard A18 (AK4499) upcoming soon. For cables: Nordost Heimdall RCA, SPM Reference XLR, Valhalla XLR. So far the best combination for my taste is UD505/SMSLM300 (AK4497) -> ValhallaXLR -> V200->T1.1. Bright and very detailed but not agressive. I'm aiming at getting a DAC less V590 to hook up with Gustard A18 and the Valhalla XLR and using the T1.1 headphones. Will provide feedback when I get a V590NoDAC.


----------



## musicus

I'm too waiting for the DAC-less V590.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The V5XX will not give you a similar experience like the V200 at all, especially with those facetweeters. I'd be wary about pairing them with it.
However if you also explicitly ordered a T90 knowing its brightness then you are probably immune to the potential treble pain.


----------



## Audio-Mark

At the moment I’m testing a V590 in my house. My headphone is a Hifiman HE1000 V2. Compared to my Hugo 2 the Violectric seems to drive the HE1000 V2 much more easily. Further I notice that I can raise the volume higher without feeling the need to turn it back.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Got the Hugo 2 in the house as well. Will compare vs v590's DAC and the Bifrost 2.

The amp section is nothing to write home about. DAC part is more interesting.


----------



## sahmen

I have been meaning to ask : what does "blue velvet" mean? Is the expression parr of the official name of the unit, or is it some kind of promotional tag?


----------



## Fegefeuer

1) a Bobby Vinton classic from the analog era

2) a quite bizzare yet fantastic David Lynch movie

3) the V590's PCB is blue

4) AKM Velvet Sound, the official slogan of the converter itself

all in all: Blue Velvet


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> 1) a Bobby Vinton classic from the analog era
> 
> 2) a quite bizzare yet fantastic David Lynch movie
> 
> ...



Yea, i even own that bizarre David Lynch classic on blu ray, but I have always wondered what it might have or do in connection with a V590, and I confess to always coming up short.

Thanks for explaining that connection.


----------



## project86

"Blue Velvet" is also a very common nickname for the highly-regarded Alps RK27 series of potentiometers, which is probably what Violectric uses for the base configuration of V590.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice, I didn't know that. Will add to the list.


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the DHA V590 is now posted with comparisons to the Chord TT2, dCS Bartok, and the original V281.

https://headfonics.com/violectric-dha-v590-review/


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 2, 2020)

V380 is now available. It's a stripped down V590. No femto, no AES, no BAL in for instance.

2199€


----------



## AudioPowerHead

V590 @US$3500 vs V380 @US$2500. I think V590 has better value (Femto, AES and BAL inputs and somewhat better aesthetics). 

Anyway, still waiting for next gen of V280/281.


----------



## project86

Nice, I appreciate having the different performance levels and pricing available. Different users, different needs and budgets - it makes sense. 

For a lot of users, the lack of Femto clock may be the only significant impact. If they intend to just use the USB input anyway, then lack of AES and XLR inputs really won't matter to them. So we're talking a $1,000 difference for the clock and subjectively better/different looks. I can see how the value works out in favor of V380 for some users.


----------



## Slim1970

project86 said:


> Nice, I appreciate having the different performance levels and pricing available. Different users, different needs and budgets - it makes sense.
> 
> For a lot of users, the lack of Femto clock may be the only significant impact. If they intend to just use the USB input anyway, then lack of AES and XLR inputs really won't matter to them. So we're talking a $1,000 difference for the clock and subjectively better/different looks. I can see how the value works out in favor of V380 for some users.


I just looked at the specs of the V380 and it will include the Femto-clock.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Slim1970 said:


> I just looked at the specs of the V380 and it will include the Femto-clock.


That has to be a typo. The German CMA site did not include Femto for the V380.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's wrong info.

V380 has a pico clock.


----------



## lexterminator

Fegefeuer said:


> Got the Hugo 2 in the house as well. Will compare vs v590's DAC and the Bifrost 2.
> 
> The amp section is nothing to write home about. DAC part is more interesting.



Have you had a chance to compare the 590 DAC against the Bifrosoft 2 and the Hugo 2 ? Curious to hear your feeback about this. I have too many DACs (V100 with Xmos 24\192), SMSL M300MKII (AK44997), Gustard A18 (AK4499), Teac UD-505 (AK4497), Schiit Modi MultiBit so I will probably at some point get a Violectric 590 without a DAC unless the price difference is low compared to the 590 with DAC and that the DAC section is excellent.


----------



## Slim1970

AudioPowerHead said:


> That has to be a typo. The German CMA site did not include Femto for the V380.


That info is straight from Violetric's website:

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V380-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p238871968


----------



## Fegefeuer

Again, it's wrong info. Time to let go.


----------



## project86

lexterminator said:


> Have you had a chance to compare the 590 DAC against the Bifrosoft 2 and the Hugo 2 ? Curious to hear your feeback about this. I have too many DACs (V100 with Xmos 24\192), SMSL M300MKII (AK44997), Gustard A18 (AK4499), Teac UD-505 (AK4497), Schiit Modi MultiBit so I will probably at some point get a Violectric 590 without a DAC unless the price difference is low compared to the 590 with DAC and that the DAC section is excellent.




I can't speak to all of those specific DACs but knowing some of them, and understanding the class that general class, I'd say the integrated V590 DAC is a clear step above. If sold by itself (which may one day be something Violectric does), I'd put it somewhere in the US$1500 range, give or take. It's a very, very good DAC.


----------



## vkenz

AudioPowerHead said:


> V590 @US$3500 vs V380 @US$2500. I think V590 has better value (Femto, AES and BAL inputs and somewhat better aesthetics).
> 
> Anyway, still waiting for next gen of V280/281.



one thing I cannot accept is the RCA input/output is not as good looking as my V281.  What a downgrade of connectors for that price.


----------



## project86

vkenz said:


> one thing I cannot accept is the RCA input/output is not as good looking as my V281.  What a downgrade of connectors for that price.




I could be wrong, but to my (admittedly getting older) eyes they all look like the same tried-and-true Neutrik RCA connectors.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I would pick the V590 DAC over the Hugo 2 any day. The detail in your face and strong separation all out attack is more smoke bombs than real fire. Treble is less natural and its brightish nature somewhat claims transparency more than it truly delivers. It is still ok in my book but not worth at that price.

I should try the Qutest.

Bifrost 2 beats it handily. Better, denser tone, more natural. Hugo 2 and V590 do separation better, V590 does a good middle ground when rendering images, has the best field of view. Hugo 2 renders images, instruments smaller on a deeper stage. Feels more stretched than filled. Bifrost 2 has the best density, instruments appear large though. Some might want to have more overview though but I don't think it's an issue.

Hugo 2 is tonally colder than both and also softer in bass slam and sustain. 

I understand the appeal when listening to to it but for me it's not for the long game.

standout features of the Hugo 2:

-macrodetailing or sharpening through "enhanced" treble
-separation
-in your face liveliness

negatives:
-less of a jackhammer, more of a sewing machine (softer, less grunt)
-weird staging


----------



## bluenight (Nov 5, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> I would pick the V590 DAC over the Hugo 2 any day. The detail in your face and strong separation all out attack is more smoke bombs than real fire. Treble is less natural and its brightish nature somewhat claims transparency more than it truly delivers. It is still ok in my book but not worth at that price.
> 
> I should try the Qutest.
> 
> ...


How did you compare? Just as dacs feeding external amp? If so what amp did you use? Or as standalone dac/amp products using there own internal amp?

I like the clean articulate sound of hugo 2 on its own. But yeah gets to bright many times with HD800S if played loud. HD650 Works better with hugo 2. But also Lake People RS02 can get to bright also with HD800S when listening from my cambridge streamers rca output to LPRS02. So maybe the flaw of the HP or to be fair because of many times poor recordings but the bright nature of HD800S make it worse. 

Also i have always wondered in what way the more expensive LP/Violectric amps excell over the cheaper priced ones like mine or LP G111 https://power-holdings-inc.com/Lake-People-G111-Headphone-Amplifier-p137192152


----------



## Fegefeuer

I used 3 amps. The V590's amp, the US4+ and the Crimson. I did not have the HPA-1 in the house at the moment, it wouldn't have changed anything though.

I don't think Hugo 2 is that overly articulate, it just throws macrodetail together with its slight brightness and high separation into your face and that's what certainly amazes people when listening for the first time or for an hour. As someone who dedicates time to listening or simply doesn't and is busy with other stuff the differences come through soon enough though. The Hugo 2 lacks the Bifrost 2's bass power and slam and is softer. The perceived clarity is no good tradeoff for what you lose. I'd rather be having the warmer character of the Bifrost 2 and the lesser perception of cleanliness and clarity than miss it's bass presence/power/slam, lesser softness and more natural separation with acoustic instruments and overall much denser tone.


----------



## project86

Finally have my full review posted, in case anyone wants to see my ramblings. If you've been following this thread then it's not anything you don't already know.


----------



## sahmen (Nov 13, 2020)

project86 said:


> Finally have my full review posted, in case anyone wants to see my ramblings. If you've been following this thread then it's not anything you don't already know.



It was an amazing review, no doubt about that. Still I have one of those pointed questions, to which I was looking for an answer, although I also felt it might be too idiosyncratically related to my own relative needs, which may not necessarily be aligned with those of others... My question is about this statement you make regarding the V590's ability to drive the Susvara :

"The V590 amp stage has enough grunt to make even the mighty Susvara sound exceptional. Is it on par with the Niimbus US4+ or a good speaker amplifier? Not quite. But it is, without a doubt, the best I've heard Susvara sound from an all-in-one device."

I was wondering whether you could recall with more precision in what respects the Susvara sounds better on the US4+ than it does on the V590 in spite of the latter's exceptional capability with the same can.


----------



## project86

Sure! While I didn't spend a huge amount of time going back and forth, I would say the Niimbus amp offers "more". There's a superior level of detail extraction, more realistic dynamic scale, better fleshed out soundstage, and just a generally improved sense of nuance and texture all around. 

Part of this may strictly be the additional power (V590 should give Susvara just under 5 Watts while US4+ gives it almost 7) but beyond that it's also a question of refinement - unless you listen at crazy levels, both should have "enough" juice. As great as the V590 is, US4+ is just the better amp, and that shows through when listening via high-performance headphone like Susvara. 

I am intrigued by your Flux Lab FA-10 but I have not heard it... definitely a powerful amp but that's not the only part of the equation. If that's what you typically use for Susvara, I don't have any input on how V590 or Niimbus might compare. Sorry!


----------



## sahmen

project86 said:


> Sure! While I didn't spend a huge amount of time going back and forth, I would say the Niimbus amp offers "more". There's a superior level of detail extraction, more realistic dynamic scale, better fleshed out soundstage, and just a generally improved sense of nuance and texture all around.
> 
> Part of this may strictly be the additional power (V590 should give Susvara just under 5 Watts while US4+ gives it almost 7) but beyond that it's also a question of refinement - unless you listen at crazy levels, both should have "enough" juice. As great as the V590 is, US4+ is just the better amp, and that shows through when listening via high-performance headphone like Susvara.
> 
> I am intrigued by your Flux Lab FA-10 but I have not heard it... definitely a powerful amp but that's not the only part of the equation. If that's what you typically use for Susvara, I don't have any input on how V590 or Niimbus might compare. Sorry!



Thanks for the comparison of V590 and the US4+. I find it to be helpful, even though it does not answer all my questions, and I do not expect any answer on a forum to. Ironically, It's actually the difference between "having enough juice" and "bringing the best" out of the susvara that inspired my question, and I am of course aware that the two are not the same thing...  I currently have about 5 amps on hand (which include the V281, the topping A-90, the Liquid Platinum, and the FA-10), all of which can drive the Susvara to insane, and ear-bleeding levels of loudness, if and when needed, which I never do. I am more interested in optimizing the performance of the Susvara to its potential pinnacle of sonic enjoyment and refinement (which, I assume, is the only objective that justifies getting it at its current price point). The problem is that all the amps I have are capable of driving the Susvara to different degrees of "wonderful" and "nice" without presenting any glaring downsides, and while I dream of a pinnacle of performance in theory, I do not really have any concrete idea as to how much better it can get, and for that matter, which exact model of amp can deliver that pinnacle. I suppose this issue is not new, and I am certainly not the only one who has faced such a question.  I wish there were some well-stocked high end head-fi audio shop near me in the New England area where I could go and audition several amps with the Susvara (and the LCD-4 too), in deciding what model to consider as "endgame".  That would be the most helpful solution for me under my present circumstances. Without that, all I'm left with are questions, such as the one I asked above.


----------



## project86

I feel your pain - definitely something you want to hear for yourself if at all possible before laying out substantial money on anything like an "endgame" amp (with corresponding pricing). I'm always jealous of those shops I see in Japan and other places which have like every headphone and amp in existence available for demo. That would be very very useful in so many cases.

The only complaint I can foresee with the Niimbus is that some people want Susvara to be darker, and the US4+ is not that. V590 is subtly more relaxed but I don't think it goes far enough for those types of listeners anyway.


----------



## attilais

I'm wondering if anyone tried K1000 on it. It's listed as 4.3W 20.7V on 100Ohms load, which looks promising.

My current setup is 1st gen Berkeley Alpha -> first watt F1J -> K1000, and HD800s was added recently. If V590 handles both headphones well, I'll be really interested in switching to this one-box solution.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Got the Susvara in. First week will go to the V590 Pro, 2nd to the Niimbus.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> Got the Susvara in. First week will go to the V590 Pro, 2nd to the Niimbus.



Just so you know how eagerly your impressions will be anticipated here :


----------



## Slim1970

So it begins:


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 19, 2020)

yeah, V550, the successor to the V281, is Drop exclusive for now.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...e-successor-to-the-v281.947586/#post-15985454


----------



## GoodEnoughGear

Fegefeuer said:


> yeah, V550, the successor to the V281, is Drop exclusive for now.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...e-successor-to-the-v281.947586/#post-15985454


I assume this is the ALPS pot only?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

GoodEnoughGear said:


> I assume this is the ALPS pot only?


I assume this is U.S.A. only


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, you can checkout with the 230V option.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> No, you can checkout with the 230V option.


That's not what I meant. I mean European gear sold through American drop. Again.

If we buy we have to pay huge taxes. Drop closed eurodrop last year and promised a new euroshop that never came.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> No, you can checkout with the 230V option.



Am I right to assume that Drop is not offering the "Pro" version of the 550 with the relay volume control option? Are we to expect the V550 Pro's relay volume version to cost another $1000 of extra dough? Also how long is this "drop exclusive" status meant to last?  How soon will the unit be available on the open market for purchase?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 19, 2020)

No idea when what will happen. Look towards 2021.

Pro Upgrade is 500€/600 Dollars, not a 1000.
I'd still get the V590 Pro. Great matching system, great DAC.

Lost sleep with the Susvara and the V590 Pro so this evening I'll be taking some time off. It was so damn good.


----------



## F Bizzle (Nov 19, 2020)

I wonder if the AKM fire reduced the amount of AKM 4490 available for Violectric to make the DHA V590/380. I can see the V550 product being escalated if that is the case, its still 50-60 days from shipping so Vio has some time to produce the face plate.

In the US, Power Holdings offered the "pro version volume control" as a $600 upgrade. But offered it free for pre-orders. It will be a wait and see if something like this happens after the Drop exclusivity period ends, but at the retail price of $2799 (this is all speculation on my part).


----------



## Njychen

Any comparisons to other DACs or Amps?


----------



## project86

Njychen said:


> Any comparisons to other DACs or Amps?



Anything specific you are wondering about? I haven't heard everything out there, but if there's a specific model you want to know about in terms of comparison, I may (or may not) have an opinion on it.


----------



## Njychen

Njychen said:


> Any comparisons to other DACs or Amps?



DAC: RME ADI-2, Matrix Element X
Amp: Bryston BHA-1, GS-X Mini

Thank you.


----------



## buzzlulu

Curious to know a comparison with a GSX Mini as well - and the Moon 430HA.  I currently have both


----------



## project86 (Nov 22, 2020)

Njychen said:


> DAC: RME ADI-2, Matrix Element X
> Amp: Bryston BHA-1, GS-X Mini



I haven't heard the Element X or the GS-X Mini, so I can't comment on those.

RME ADI-2 - I really love the features of this thing, and it also sounds very good by itself even without any EQ etc. It's a bit sharper and more "precise" sounding, more treble energy, smaller and more focused soundstage. The V590 DAC is more organic, has less treble extension or at least not as spot lit up there, and has a bit more tonal saturation and richness (particularly in the midrange). Soundstage is quite a big larger which becomes particularly obvious with speakers, but also some headphones can showcase this aspect. I'd say they are roughly on par but each having a different focus - I could assemble different rigs where either one would be a better fit.

Bryston BHA-1 - solid amp if a bit bland or uninspiring for my tastes. I vastly prefer the V590 amp section... it's on a whole different level. Bigger, bolder, more detail, superior technicalities, it's just better in pretty much every category. As I suppose it should be considering the price difference involved.



buzzlulu said:


> Curious to know a comparison with a GSX Mini as well - and the Moon 430HA.  I currently have both



I don't particularly enjoy the amp section in the 430HA - HERE is my old review to discuss why. I would take the Violectric eleven times out of ten.


----------



## LeMoviedave

YMMV, but I can say I prefer the GSX-Mini to the V281, so that might transfer over to the V590 as well.  I found the older Violectric a touch dark.


----------



## buzzlulu

LeMoviedave said:


> YMMV, but I can say I prefer the GSX-Mini to the V281, so that might transfer over to the V590 as well.  I found the older Violectric a touch dark.



Agreed as I had both here as well (GSX Mini is still here).  A touch dark is what I found as well on the V281 and the GSX Mini also had a lower noise floor.

I am wondering if the new 590 improved on things.


----------



## LeMoviedave

buzzlulu said:


> Agreed as I had both here as well (GSX Mini is still here).  A touch dark is what I found as well on the V281 and the GSX Mini also had a lower noise floor.
> 
> I am wondering if the new 590 improved on things.


As Project called the v590 a touch more neutral, they might be similar.  I would be surprised if it was really better.  It does seem like a killer all in one.


----------



## project86

Having not heard the GSX Mini, I will say the V590 amp is very competitive with the GSX MK2. The GSX is faster, brighter, more lit up in the upper mids, and has a lighter tonality. V590 amp section is thicker, weightier, much more controlled in the upper mids/treble (but not dark!), and surprisingly has superior imaging/soundstage. So very different presentations but both among the very best examples of their type. 

I don't know where the Mini fits in though.

Also V590 will get the Black Friday treatment from 11/27 to 12/2, priced at $3150 with the standard volume. That's $350 off the regular price so definitely a great time to buy if anyone was interested. Lots of other Violectric discounts available then as well.


----------



## buzzlulu

project86 said:


> Having not heard the GSX Mini, I will say the V590 amp is very competitive with the GSX MK2. The GSX is faster, brighter, more lit up in the upper mids, and has a lighter tonality. V590 amp section is thicker, weightier, much more controlled in the upper mids/treble (but not dark!), and surprisingly has superior imaging/soundstage. So very different presentations but both among the very best examples of their type.
> 
> I don't know where the Mini fits in though.
> 
> Also V590 will get the Black Friday treatment from 11/27 to 12/2, priced at $3150 with the standard volume. That's $350 off the regular price so definitely a great time to buy if anyone was interested. Lots of other Violectric discounts available then as well.



Some will say the Mini is perhaps a better version of the GSX MK2. It benefits from improved power supply, is less bright, and has added a little additional weight


----------



## Sound Eq (Nov 26, 2020)

Audio-Mark said:


> At the moment I’m testing a V590 in my house. My headphone is a Hifiman HE1000 V2. Compared to my Hugo 2 the Violectric seems to drive the HE1000 V2 much more easily. Further I notice that I can raise the volume higher without feeling the need to turn it back.


is the difference big between both as to me hugo 2 was a lame combo with he1000v2, if the difference between both is small I will be very very surprised. As I expect 590 to be on a whole different level than the hugo2 especially with he1000


----------



## LeMoviedave

Sound Eq said:


> is the difference big between both as to me hugo 2 was a lame combo with he1000v2, if the difference between both is small I will be very very surprised. As I expect 590 to be on a whole different level than the hugo2 especially with he1000


The last interesting article Inner Fidelity did before they went defunct is compare how the Hugo 2 sounded with its built in amp vs connected to an external amp, and, without fail, they felt it was better connected to a better amp.  With something like the HE1000, I can imagine an amp like the 590 paying dividends.


----------



## Sound Eq

i am considering the 590, is there any difference in sound quality between the pro and regular version that is worth to spend the extra cash on, as for I would only do that if there is a notable sound quality difference, I do not care about volume knobs or so on to spend money on that. But if there is a difference then by all means


----------



## wantan

Has anybody hear both the Meier Audio Corda Soul and the v590? They're pretty much in the same price bracket.



project86 said:


> RME ADI-2 -...I'd say they are roughly on par but each having a different focus - I could assemble different rigs where either one would be a better fit.



You're talking about the RME as "all in one" unit?


----------



## project86 (Nov 27, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> i am considering the 590, is there any difference in sound quality between the pro and regular version that is worth to spend the extra cash on, as for I would only do that if there is a notable sound quality difference, I do not care about volume knobs or so on to spend money on that. But if there is a difference then by all means



I haven't tried the V590 regular and Pro version back to back. But I did that comparison with the V281 and the difference was not massive. I _could_ hear the improvement, but I'm not sure it was worth the price. Now keep in mind the V590 uses a newer design based on reed relays - combined with the amp section being more resolving than V281, the difference could be more obvious here... but I'm not positive.

Also worth noting - Black Friday sale in effect right now, so the Pro version would only end up being $250 more than the regular pricing for the regular version. I realize that's a serious bit of mental gymnastics but it may help. Or just snag the regular version for the discounted price and be happy.




wantan said:


> Has anybody hear both the Meier Audio Corda Soul and the v590? They're pretty much in the same price bracket.
> 
> 
> 
> You're talking about the RME as "all in one" unit?



I believe Lake People is building the Corda Soul for Meier Audio (Jan Meier obviously designed it though), so there are similarities in terms of looks (and price, since you mentioned it). The sound is likely quite different though. Personally I think the Soul is only interesting if you have need for all the adjustments. It's something I would cross shop if I was in the market for an SPL headphone amp. Beyond that, I don't think either Meier or SPL would be competitive in pure amplification quality. But I'm speculating as I haven't heard the Soul (seems not many have).

And no, I was strictly comparing the RME DAC portion to the V590 DAC. Imho the RME is "mostly" a DAC, while the V590 is truly balanced between DAC and amp. The amp section of the V590 completely leaves RME in the dust.


----------



## Audio-Mark

Sound Eq said:


> is the difference big between both as to me hugo 2 was a lame combo with he1000v2, if the difference between both is small I will be very very surprised. As I expect 590 to be on a whole different level than the hugo2 especially with he1000



I found the difference too small to buy the 590. I don’t think the Hugo 2 is a lame combo with the HE1000v2, but that’s just my personal opinion. I can’t hear what you are hearing. Nevertheless I’m very curious to read what other people think of the difference between the two devices with a HE1000v2.


----------



## Sound Eq (Nov 28, 2020)

Audio-Mark said:


> I found the difference too small to buy the 590. I don’t think the Hugo 2 is a lame combo with the HE1000v2, but that’s just my personal opinion. I can’t hear what you are hearing. Nevertheless I’m very curious to read what other people think of the difference between the two devices with a HE1000v2.


it was simply feeling that the sound was lean and thin on he1000v2 using hugo 2, compared to my hugo tt2,

the bass was lacking, mids where thin, lacked fullness and body and soundstage was not as wide when I used hugo2 compared to hugo tt2. Hugo 2 simply did not push he1000v2 to full performance, and if you mention that the 590 and hugo 2 difference is small, then I have to rethink 590


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 28, 2020)

Hugo 2 is softer, thinner and more lit up up top vs. the V590. More forward too with the "in your face" wall of detail and "detail". Eggshaped Hifiman headphones love good, clean power with bass presence, heft, slam and generally a stronger fundament down low (not meaning a boost). V590 gives them that and a slightly enhanced lower mid.

Or you could go Qutest + V550. Gets you galvanic isolation on the USB and do away with the amp part which is nothing special. 

I still prefer the V590 as a whole (and its DAC too) and would always take it over the Hugo 2 even though the price difference is substantial. The DAC part is very well done.


----------



## Diego Dee

Hello, I'm new here. I am very interested in the HDA V590 / V380 and I find it funny that I (from Germany) get more information about the new Violectric V590/V380 on this international platform than at home.

I am a little surprised that the V590 / V380 is never mentioned together with the Questyle 12 Master. In my estimation, the two devices are definitely on a similar level 

or is that a misjudgment of mine?

What do you think, is it still worth looking at the Questyle, or is the new HPA more suitable? I mainly want to operate a Mr. Speakers Ether2 and an SRM T1 on the Mac.

The main thing for me is the choice between HPA V380 (which has a similar internal structure to the 590) and the 12 Master from Questyle.


----------



## project86

I think it's just a matter of Questyle not being as well known these days. Their gear used to be very prominent and commonly recommended. Not as much these days though.

As the very first person to review one of their products back in early 2014, I have seen Questyle's rise and subsequent fall, based mainly on the influence of an industry person who attached himself as "vice president" of the company and didn't really accomplish much from my perspective. But I'm veering off topic here...

Generally speaking, the Questyle signature is leaner, more precise and fast, while Violectric generally shoots for a somewhat more organic and natural feel. The Twelve is perhaps the one Questyle product I haven't owned, so I can't say for sure, but I'd be surprised if it didn't continue their house sound.


----------



## Scott526

I too am on the fence - but I have a Questyle CMA 400i. For headphones I use it as a dac - connected to a Goldpoint passive attenuator - into a Lake People G111.
The Questyle on low gain (unity) is still too much power for my headphones - the way I like to listen at least.
Also, you can't amplify an outside analog source in the Questyle Dac amps.

I'm looking to gain some functionality while reducing clutter. 

The G111 is noticeably better than the amp in the CMA 400i. It is Clearer, more detailed without loosing musicality and is still on the warm side of neutral.
The new Violectrics should be similar in tonality.
I have LCD 2, Focal Clears, and HD 660s - they are easy to drive. The new DHA V380 has -6,-12, and -18 in gain control. It may still be too much power.

If you want additional features - analog in, upsampling, better pre-gain control then the V380 is a contender. Otherwise it's a tough call but you can't go wrong either way.


----------



## gonzfi

Just received my unit... great so far except when I use the line out mode into my Cambridge power amp, even though the volume is at zero, I'm almost blowing my speakers up with crazy volume. The headphone mode is working perfectly. I'm guessing I'm doing something stupid and obvious to cause this problem but I cant seem to work out what! Any ideas?


----------



## gonzfi

gonzfi said:


> Just received my unit... great so far except when I use the line out mode into my Cambridge power amp, even though the volume is at zero, I'm almost blowing my speakers up with crazy volume. The headphone mode is working perfectly. I'm guessing I'm doing something stupid and obvious to cause this problem but I cant seem to work out what! Any ideas?


Figured it out. There is a setting on the back for a fixed output for integrated amps. It must be set to this. Pray my speakers aren't fooked!


----------



## Diego Dee (Dec 1, 2020)

Meinen Sie die Schaltflächen "Pre" und "Post" oder Line-Out-Gain?
Bitte lassen Sie Sie uns wissen, ob es richtig funktioniert.


----------



## gonzfi

Diego Dee said:


> Do you mean the "pre" and "post" button?
> Please let us know if it is working properly.


Yes I mean exactly that and yes now working perfectly. Very impressive all in one unit.


----------



## gonzfi

Another question to those in the know.... when using the USB out from my windows laptop into the v590 and playing qobuz, I'm getting a lot of interference - crackling, static type noises. I dont get this when using the same cable direct from my phone or DAP (all sources have a usb-c port so I can use the same cable) or if I use another program such as BBC sounds. Do I need a specific driver installed on my laptop? I've tried all the various options on qobuz and I get the same result (wasapi, direct sound, etc).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can only confirm USB working just fine via Tidal. 
You should still install the drivers but they won't be able to fix your source problem. Did you try another cable and other USB connections of your laptop? Other power source, socket? 

https://www.amanero.com/drivers/combo384_drivers_w10_1062.zip


----------



## gonzfi

Fegefeuer said:


> Can only confirm USB working just fine via Tidal.
> You should still install the drivers but they won't be able to fix your source problem. Did you try another cable and other USB connections of your laptop? Other power source, socket?
> 
> https://www.amanero.com/drivers/combo384_drivers_w10_1062.zip


Thank you, I will get these installed and see if they do the trick.


----------



## vkenz

gonzfi said:


> Another question to those in the know.... when using the USB out from my windows laptop into the v590 and playing qobuz, I'm getting a lot of interference - crackling, static type noises. I dont get this when using the same cable direct from my phone or DAP (all sources have a usb-c port so I can use the same cable) or if I use another program such as BBC sounds. Do I need a specific driver installed on my laptop? I've tried all the various options on qobuz and I get the same result (wasapi, direct sound, etc).


Try disabling the laptop's Intel C State. Might be worth a try.  https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/bjucl4/dell_xps_15_9570_external_peripherals_stutterlag/


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask as I am not really understanding the power of the 590, which is more powerful the ifi ican pro or the 590


----------



## roskodan

At 50 Ohms and above they are about the same. Below 50 Ohms the ifi has a lot more power, Violectric designs are known to be heavily current limited below 50 Ohms. But because neither is really lacking in power, that is not so relevant, it's better to look for a good match in terms of sound signature.


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 16, 2020)

did anyone compare the 380 and 590 do they differ alot in signature

as for me I do not need a premap at all, just a headphone dac and amp

As I am looking for a one unit device, so the 550 as an amp is not interest to me, and if I am all that extra money on the 590 just cause it has a preamp then that for me is wasted money if it sounds as the 380


----------



## UntilThen

Fegefeuer said:


> Hugo 2 is softer, thinner and more lit up up top vs. the V590. More forward too with the "in your face" wall of detail and "detail". Eggshaped Hifiman headphones love good, clean power with bass presence, heft, slam and generally a stronger fundament down low (not meaning a boost). V590 gives them that and a slightly enhanced lower mid.
> 
> Or you could go Qutest + V550. Gets you galvanic isolation on the USB and do away with the amp part which is nothing special.
> 
> I still prefer the V590 as a whole (and its DAC too) and would always take it over the Hugo 2 even though the price difference is substantial. The DAC part is very well done.



Perhaps it's because of this that I bought a used mint v280 to try with my He1000se. I have Yggdrasil and am awaiting to see what the v280 can do for my Hekse.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> I think it's just a matter of Questyle not being as well known these days. Their gear used to be very prominent and commonly recommended. Not as much these days though.
> 
> As the very first person to review one of their products back in early 2014, I have seen Questyle's rise and subsequent fall, based mainly on the influence of an industry person who attached himself as "vice president" of the company and didn't really accomplish much from my perspective. But I'm veering off topic here...
> 
> Generally speaking, the Questyle signature is leaner, more precise and fast, while Violectric generally shoots for a somewhat more organic and natural feel. The Twelve is perhaps the one Questyle product I haven't owned, so I can't say for sure, but I'd be surprised if it didn't continue their house sound.



How timely for you to make this comment. I have the Questyle CMA Twelve for 2 days since the 31st Dec 2020 and have just bought the v280 today and am still awaiting it's arrival. Dac is Yggdrasil and I have a few tube amps too. Headphones are in my signature. 

Questyle CMA 12 is just as you described. I like it with my headphones but of course there's no analogue input. That means can't use my turntable or my Yggdrasil as input. I have heard v281 before in an audition with Ragnarok back in 2017. I bought Ragnarok then but have always miss not buying the v281. So now fast forward 3 years and I'm going to get the v280. Would love to hear how that synergised with Hekse, LCD-3f, LCD-X and HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

Fegefeuer said:


> Got the Susvara in. First week will go to the V590 Pro, 2nd to the Niimbus.



This is very interesting. Eagerly awaiting your impressions. Something for me to consider when I get rid of all my gear and start from scratch again.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask what is the main difference between the 590 and 380, is just that bit of extra power and having xlr input


----------



## Fegefeuer

No Femto, no AES, no remote.



UntilThen said:


> This is very interesting. Eagerly awaiting your impressions. Something for me to consider when I get rid of all my gear and start from scratch again.



You have great gear, why start from scratch? 

I was too busy to write my Susvara review but I will do it sometime this month.


----------



## UntilThen

Fegefeuer said:


> You have great gear, why start from scratch?
> 
> I was too busy to write my Susvara review but I will do it sometime this month.



Aww thanks. Yours is an opinion I could listen to and Project86 too. 

I am indeed quite happy with what I've got right now. In the last 2 years of rapid changes in my system, it may have seem like going backwards with my choices now but my ears tells me otherwise. I realise it's not about buying the most expensive gear but rather in getting synergy of the gear together. I believe the best is still yet to come.

However the idea of a simple setup of Susvara and Violectric DHA V590 dac/amp appeals to me. Knowing the Hekse sound signature now, what you say about the v281 warm and powerful tones combining well with the Susvara makes sense. If V590 is slightly less warm and it appears to be so from what I read here, then the match might be spot on. What I wanted to know is whether the V590 will adequately drive Susvara and on paper it should.


----------



## Fegefeuer

V590 Pro was indeed really great with the Susvara, playing into its strengths and not leaving a lot of signature footprint on it but some important ones (treble, lower mids). Absolute extension, delicate, slightly sweet, treble, very "tactile" midrange, slight lower mids warmth and then bottomless. Only area where I wished it went a tiny bit further was the slam and overall (transient) tactility. My blu-tack, sorbothane modded 4-screw HE-6 with ZMF Auteur Lambskin does this better but that's not big news.

Oh yes, the staging and imaging. Really love the cohesive, rounded (Hey Sahmen!) stage with a stable and solid center image. Also big and lasersharp (like the HE-1000SE but more even in the middle/center image), not diffuse. Watched The Dark Knight + Dolby Atmos with it, what a joy. 

I was pondering selling a few headphones to get it and threw a lot of "common sense" overboard. However somehow I managed to withhold as it's really a lot more expensive in Germany than in the US. MSRP is 6999€ here, that's 8500 Dollars. Nobody I knew would go below 5k €. That's still a whole lot of money and I need a few more things for my setups (second DAC, cables, monitors) before a 5k headphone and I bought a lot other stuff already (TV etc.).
Also couldn't let go those headphones either as I cherish them too much. 1st world problems.

Thus I tried to make most of the loaner (2 weeks max) time and used it for everything. Tons of music, watched movies with various VSTs, played a game. Just want to say that it proved (again and this time at home) that it's my favorite headphone I could somewhat afford if I tried very hard. It's so damn good and enjoyable. Never "maxed" a headphone so much in so little time and had a hard time to let go.   

Haven't heard it on the V281 unfortunately but @Slim1970 is the man for impressions with it, also since he owns the HE-1000SE too as far as I remember.


----------



## UntilThen

Fegefeuer said:


> I was pondering selling a few headphones to get it and threw a lot of "common sense" overboard. However somehow I managed to withhold as it's really a lot more expensive in Germany than in the US. MSRP is 6999€ here, that's 8500 Dollars. Nobody I knew would go below 5k €. That's still a whole lot of money and I need a few more things for my setups (second DAC, cables, monitors) before a 5k headphone and I bought a lot other stuff already (TV etc.).
> Also couldn't let go those headphones either as I cherish them too much. 1st world problems.



Haha well expressed.   Nail it with what you wrote especially this part that I'm quoting. 1st world problems indeed.  

I have heard Susvara albeit once, driven by WA33. I have also heard v281. In fact I audition Ragnarok and V281 at my local Head-Fi store in 2017 three times and then bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. I think I was more influence by the fact that the Schiit stack look more imposing and nicer together. That and the fact that Ragnarok can also drive my small speakers. However, all through these years I keep getting reminded of how v281 sound and I miss it. Hence why I bought the v280 and it will arrive next week.

I just bought Hekse a few days ago. It's used, mint and already 'burn in' so it's good to go. Love it. Love it very much indeed. That's when I'm reminded of what I've heard of Susvara and WA33 at the Sydney HiFi show also in 2017. That was quite an impression.


----------



## F Bizzle (Jan 2, 2021)

Yeah the V590 can adequately power the Susvara and I do think it does enough to tame its treble while still maintaining superior control of the driver. I did like it with the stock DAC but I have a single ended LampizatOr Amber 3. I found that combination to offer a bit more bass slam and some delicacy in the treble with the Susvara. Overall the V590 does pretty well with the Susvara.

If starting with Susvara and building a system around it, I might consider other amp options. But if you have many headphones and looking for an all-rounder amp, I've been happy with what I've thrown at the V590.

Also, not sure the availability of the V590/380 is internationally, in the US its currently not available new, but the V550 is.


----------



## Diego Dee

F Bizzle said:


> Also, not sure the availability of the V590/380 is internationally, in the US its currently not available new, but the V550 is.




After a fire at AKM, the delivery of the new V380 and V590 (pro) devices is by autumn / winter 2021. At minute 41:45 Fried Reim says it himself on the following video:

Interview with Fried Reim


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, V590 and V380 will sell until all is gone and then return when AKM can deliver again.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> V590 Pro was indeed really great with the Susvara, playing into its strengths and not leaving a lot of signature footprint on it but some important ones (treble, lower mids). Absolute extension, delicate, slightly sweet, treble, very "tactile" midrange, slight lower mids warmth and then bottomless. Only area where I wished it went a tiny bit further was the slam and overall (transient) tactility. My blu-tack, sorbothane modded 4-screw HE-6 with ZMF Auteur Lambskin does this better but that's not big news.
> 
> Oh yes, the staging and imaging. Really love the cohesive, rounded (Hey Sahmen!) stage with a stable and solid center image. Also big and lasersharp (like the HE-1000SE but more even in the middle/center image), not diffuse. Watched The Dark Knight + Dolby Atmos with it, what a joy.
> 
> ...



Very interesting remarks for someone like me... i am used to listening to the Susvara on my v281/YggyA2 rig, and it's a mostly nice and agreeable experience, although not quite straightforward one, as I seem to be learning new things everyday, from one track to the next, about how the Susvara interprets a sound-field. It is amazing to appreciate what subtle but noticeable and interesting differences are emerging that set the Susvara apart from the HeKSE, with which it still manages to maintain an unmistakeable sonic kinship, in a very tantalizing "now you see it, now you don't" dynamic (referring to the ghostly presence of the HekSE in the Susvara's sound-field). 

Speaking of "sonic kinships," I have always been intrigued, as a v281 owner, by the prospect of nailing down how much (kinship or divergence) it shares with the amp on the v590 (or the V550, in other words) or for that matter, the Niimbus US4(+), which is never too far away in my thoughts whenever the v281 or v590/550 are invoked. Accordingly, I do appreciate your brief remarks regarding how the susvara responds to the v590, but I hope you would not think I am being too greedy for one day if I ask you to consider sharing what impressions you have formed so far (if any) regarding any delta in sonic performance that might separate the v590/v550 from the Niimbus US4 (=) series?


----------



## bouscadie

Are enough of us sticking out our tongues while we wait for revelations?


----------



## vkenz

is it not that the v590 is the less of the good thing that makes the v281 great? if the v281 is the reference point of that good thing to most people then that good thing is less on the v590 and almost not existing in the nimbus us4. yeah?


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## UntilThen

Haha, that's my first laugh today and it's only 6 am.


----------



## bouscadie

I understand that it's like Trump: 281  would have won against 590 ?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jan 4, 2021)

There are no absolutes like that. The V281 is a contender if you want or strongly insist on the signature. Anything else the V550 Pro does better, e.g. quieter, even blacker background, more refined treble, less square, more bass sustain, more power at lower Z (4,2W vs 6,4W@50 Ohm), better relais volume control.


----------



## bouscadie

Of course it was a joke, there is no winning. Would a comparison with Questyle twelve make sense?


----------



## roskodan

vkenz said:


> is it not that the v590 is the less of the good thing that makes the v281 great? if the v281 is the reference point of that good thing to most people then that good thing is less on the v590 and almost not existing in the nimbus us4. yeah?


I agree, house sound and synergy trumps all other sales pitches, once you get a certain level of performance, the rest is all about tradeoffs. Therefor the reference point should actually be the original V200. Then again, if a certain headphone need a different amp to sound good, well, it's a different amp, a better suited amp perhaps, but anyone that understands the technical aspects knows that a generalization in the form of X is better than Y is just nonsense.


----------



## sahmen

Wait, I am not understanding exactly what everyone else is misunderstanding (or understanding), so could we all kindly dial down the verbal showboating and the rhetorical acrobatics a wee bit and get back to basics here?  Thank you kindly!


----------



## Fegefeuer

sahmen said:


> Very interesting remarks for someone like me... i am used to listening to the Susvara on my v281/YggyA2 rig, and it's a mostly nice and agreeable experience, although not quite straightforward one, as I seem to be learning new things everyday, from one track to the next, about how the Susvara interprets a sound-field. It is amazing to appreciate what subtle but noticeable and interesting differences are emerging that set the Susvara apart from the HeKSE, with which it still manages to maintain an unmistakeable sonic kinship, in a very tantalizing "now you see it, now you don't" dynamic (referring to the ghostly presence of the HekSE in the Susvara's sound-field).
> 
> Speaking of "sonic kinships," I have always been intrigued, as a v281 owner, by the prospect of nailing down how much (kinship or divergence) it shares with the amp on the v590 (or the V550, in other words) or for that matter, the Niimbus US4(+), which is never too far away in my thoughts whenever the v281 or v590/550 are invoked. Accordingly, I do appreciate your brief remarks regarding how the susvara responds to the v590, but I hope you would not think I am being too greedy for one day if I ask you to consider sharing what impressions you have formed so far (if any) regarding any delta in sonic performance that might separate the v590/v550 from the Niimbus US4 (=) series?



I'll write the Susvara review after the next exam. Should be still this month.


----------



## sahmen

All jokes aside, I really wish there were some technology online for test driving or auditioning audio components before buying. If I could get some sense of how headphone X might sound on head-amp Y simply by plugging headphone X into a computer and accessing some software or plugin which can simulate the result, I cannot imagine how many headaches (not to mention $$$) that would save me as an enthusiast.  By the way, I would gladly pay for such a service, since it would beat traveling around the world X times every year to attend canjams and hi-tech audio shows just to be able to audition the latest and the greatest. It would also be a great way for avoiding exposure to pandemic viruses of all kinds. 

Actually, I would personally build such a technology if I had the expertise, which I don't, unfortunately.


----------



## Njychen

Does anyone know if the 256 step relay volume of the pro version clicks?  Just wondering if there is a physical way to tell apart the normal version vs the pro version.  Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> Generally speaking, *the Questyle signature is leaner, more precise and fast, while Violectric generally shoots for a somewhat more organic and natural feel.* The Twelve is perhaps the one Questyle product I haven't owned, so I can't say for sure, but I'd be surprised if it didn't continue their house sound.



Spot on. Agree completely with that statement. I've nothing to add and I've just put the v280 and Questyle CMA Twelve to the test with Hekse.

Except to say that I prefer the v280. It's just more musical and the power.... I crave.


----------



## buzzlulu

Correct me if I am wrong however just like the V281 the new V550 can accept single ended RCA inputs and it will internally convert to a fully balanced signal to then drive balanced headphones??

(also posted on the V550 thread)


----------



## Sound Eq

greetings, is there a windows driver I can install for windows 10

I received me unit and will report back soon


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://amanero.com/drivers.htm


----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 20, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


> https://amanero.com/drivers.htm


thanks, if I want to add +6 db gain on the headphone output, do I raise just the 6db swtich on left and right, and keep all other switches down

And if I add headphone gain to +6db should do anything in tidal or roon, to avoid clipping or is that not relevant at all with the violectric 590


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, ONLY raise the +6db on each side

+18db same
+12db - raise +18db and -6db on each side as 18-6=+12

-12db -raise -18db and +6db on each side as -18+6db=-12


----------



## Sound Eq

Fegefeuer said:


> yes, ONLY raise the +6db on each side
> 
> +18db same
> +12db - raise +18db and -6db on each side as 18-6=+12
> ...



And if I add headphone gain to +6db should do anything in tidal or roon, to avoid clipping or is that not relevant at all with the violectric 590


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, nothing, just go bitperfect. The Violectric stuff takes a lot of input volume, don't worry about it.

I recommend going the PI2AES route though instead of USB. You'll get more of your V590 that way. I use a Lynx AES card to the V590 with a single W3173 Neutrik wire and the Pi2AES still came out on top. It's just a superb design. 

Building a RPI4 is not a big task, also you can setup an additional one as Rooncore/Roon Endpoint etc. if you want to go all out.


----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 20, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


> No, nothing, just go bitperfect. The Violectric stuff takes a lot of input volume, don't worry about it.
> 
> I recommend going the PI2AES route though instead of USB. You'll get more of your V590 that way. I use a Lynx AES card to the V590 with a single W3173 Neutrik wire and the Pi2AES still came out on top. It's just a superb design.
> 
> Building a RPI4 is not a big task, also you can setup an additional one as Rooncore/Roon Endpoint etc. if you want to go all out.


for now I will use the internal dac using usb, to get a feel of how it is in stock form, so I was referring to the headphone amp gain +6db addition, if I should do anything in tidal or roon to prevent clipping or is that not related at all.


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 20, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


>


got it


----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 20, 2021)

may i ask some questions knowing I want to stick to using usb 

1- power cord, any advise if I should invest in an after market one to get better sound quality
2- Dac, do you think adding a dac will give a better sound quality than the built in dac, as the whole reason I bought the 590 is to have an all in one Unit. If adding a dac to 590 which ones are recommended
3-  for audeze lcd4 which do you think is it best to set the switches at the headphone gain
4- would it be better to do the upsampling from roon or using the 590 upsampling
5- after i installed the amenero driver i see 2 drivers now in roon, one wasapi and one combo asio, so which one is the better to use

I will share some impressions using 590 with lcd4, he1000se, he1000v1, denon 9200

Expect a feedback that might align or not align with some glorious feedback shared here

I will reference chord tt2, and a cheap romi bx2 plus portable amp with chord mojo, so buckle up. I will do some burn in for the 590 for few days, and then report back unless someone can tell me that the sound will not change with burn in

I am using the new USB Lush 3 cable, roon-tidal, and asus zephyrus Gx501Gi


----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 21, 2021)

hifiman he1000v1 is first headphone to comment on using with 590 as a dac amp, i really loved this combo, the 590 as a dac /amp has a tight grip on the sound, the sound was full with a big head room, bass was tight, great mids and details and big soundstage, when I used the he1000v1 with tt2 the synergy was a bit on the thinner side, and not as enjoyable as the 590 with he1000v1


----------



## Njychen

Njychen said:


> Does anyone know if the 256 step relay volume of the pro version clicks?  Just wondering if there is a physical way to tell apart the normal version vs the pro version.  Thanks.



For anyone who is interested, you will not hear or feel steps with the relay volume on the Pro version.


----------



## bouscadie

Njychen said:


> For anyone who is interested, you will not hear or feel steps with the relay volume on the Pro version.


no steps but noises (gresillments) yes. Not very pleasant, in fact.


----------



## Njychen

bouscadie said:


> no steps but noises (gresillments) yes. Not very pleasant, in fact.



What kind of noises?  I don’t hear any on mine.


----------



## bouscadie

scrratchh, crackling, electrical noises like on a high voltage line (less of course). Can't hear any noise? so maybe a problem with mine ....


----------



## Njychen

bouscadie said:


> scrratchh, crackling, electrical noises like on a high voltage line (less of course). Can't hear any noise? so maybe a problem with mine ....



Ya I’d check with your dealer.  I don’t have that issue when using it as pre-amp nor headphone amp.

Sorry to hear you have this issue.


----------



## vkenz

bouscadie said:


> scrratchh, crackling, electrical noises like on a high voltage line (less of course). Can't hear any noise? so maybe a problem with mine ....



I also experience on the shop demo unit for V590.  it turn out to be not from volume control but it was the source usb cable that cause it.


----------



## bouscadie

Njychen said:


> Ya I’d check with your dealer.  I don’t have that issue when using it as pre-amp nor headphone amp.
> 
> Sorry to hear you have this issue.



is it a "pro" version? so if so and that you do not actually hear any extraneous noise when turning the volume control, it is worrying for me . But yet it seems to me that others have mentioned these "noises", am i wrong?


----------



## bouscadie

I did some tests with different USB cables, it doesn't come from there.


----------



## project86

The Pro volume implementation should not be giving you any significant noise. It is basically silent, and the only way to really notice it should be in direct comparison with a standard version. If you've got noise or other issues, I'd reach out to your dealer or Violectric directly, that doesn't sound normal to me.


----------



## Njychen

bouscadie said:


> is it a "pro" version? so if so and that you do not actually hear any extraneous noise when turning the volume control, it is worrying for me . But yet it seems to me that others have mentioned these "noises", am i wrong?



Yes pro version.


----------



## bouscadie

OK, thanks. I'm going to contact them.


----------



## attilais

My V550 pro's volume knob has noise as well, keeps giving soft clicking sound when I turn it.

The noise happens near the knob but does not affect the audio signal. Without playing any music, I turn it to the maximum volume, and don't hear anything from the headphone.


----------



## bouscadie

then there may still be problems with the volume. On mine no noise at the knob but very clearly on the speakers or headphones, whether I play music or not. We will wait for the explanations.


----------



## bouscadie

it seems that all 590 "pro" make these noises with the volume knob.
Here is for listening, with and without music play.


----------



## bouscadie

So I had confirmation from Violectric, ALL 590 pro make these noises when adjusting the knob. That NOTHING can be heard will remain a mystery to me. But what is certain is that this tool plays music devilishly well! enjoy and be happy.


----------



## vkenz (Feb 2, 2021)

bouscadie said:


> is it a "pro" version? so if so and that you do not actually hear any extraneous noise when turning the volume control, it is worrying for me . But yet it seems to me that others have mentioned these "noises", am i wrong?


You can use a multi meter to test the ground connectivity of your power cable as well.  Worth a look.  Or it could be ground loop from your usb?


----------



## JCANs

Quick question: the 590 offers the "protect" feature which the 380 does not. I might have missed it somewhere but I do not fully see in which situations one can benefit from this? Is this only when the supply voltage peaks and could be transferred to the headphone? Is it not a standard feature to have some protective circuit in place to avoid this? Or is this something additional? 

What other features would you say sets the 380 and 590 further apart (as the price diff is about 1k)?

Genuinely interested to understand this as my eyes are flowing over the 380/590.

Thanks!


----------



## Wyville

JCANs said:


> Quick question: the 590 offers the "protect" feature which the 380 does not. I might have missed it somewhere but I do not fully see in which situations one can benefit from this? Is this only when the supply voltage peaks and could be transferred to the headphone? Is it not a standard feature to have some protective circuit in place to avoid this? Or is this something additional?
> 
> What other features would you say sets the 380 and 590 further apart (as the price diff is about 1k)?
> 
> ...


Not sure about the ‘protect‘ feature, but I have been looking at the differences. The 590 has a femto clock (instead of pico, I believe), balanced in (both digital and analogue), motorized volume control/remote, two toroidal transformers (instead of one) and more settings on the resampler. Those are the most obvious differences I have found.


----------



## Fegefeuer

all have the same protect features.


----------



## bouscadie

To be more appropriate, would not the place of this thread be rather here or there? :

*Dedicated Source Components/High-end Audio Forum*


----------



## roskodan

I was wondering the same about the Niimbus thread. Perhaps the traffic is higher here. Or the competition lower. 😉


----------



## Fegefeuer

No need to overthink it. 

Read this thread and notice how people still think the DAC part is like a V281 addon, nothing more. Then you have people who never heard the DAC part and think DAC X they know is automatically better.

It's simply a matter of perception and most people relate to LP amps more than their DACs.

Feel free to open a thread there once the standalone DAC is about to release.


----------



## JCANs

Fegefeuer said:


> all have the same protect features.


Good to know . You seem to be quite close to Violectric, very useful so thanks!
Do you happen to know why the 590 has this "protect" indicator on the front which cannot be found on the 380?

Many thanks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The 380 has it on the output LED, indicating OFF once the protection kicks in. Different case, different layout, you gotta save somewhere.


----------



## bouscadie

one thing is certain, the 590 dac is not there to pretend, it can easily be compared to expensive dacs.


----------



## project86

Categorizing posts in the right place has become a lot more difficult over the years. Used to be there were headphone amps, and there were DACs, and very rarely you had a Benchmark or Lavry that had both functions - but that was a rarity. Nowadays there are probably just as many combo units as there are separates. 

The Head Gear section does have a spot for integrated devices, but the forums do not. So I never know which way to do.


----------



## Sound Eq

bouscadie said:


> it seems that all 590 "pro" make these noises with the volume knob.
> Here is for listening, with and without music play.



I am glad i bought the regular version and its totally silent


----------



## Njychen

Sound Eq said:


> I am glad i bought the regular version and its totally silent



The strange thing is not all pro versions have it even though manufacturer claims it’s “normal”.


----------



## bouscadie (Feb 5, 2021)

yes, maybe if the manufacturer or an official representative read this Forum, then it might be good if he wishes to come and clarify and explain to us what remains something really mysterious. Thank you in advance !

I can't believe he's dishonest, so there is an explanation somewhere.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll show you guys a trick:

info@lake-people.de. Just write there and describe your experience in detail.


----------



## bouscadie

Fegefeuer said:


> I'll show you guys a trick:
> 
> info@lake-people.de. Just write there and describe your experience in detail.



it's done my friend, but the question remains.


----------



## bouscadie

I have no idea, how much does a 256 step reed relay control cost?


----------



## vkenz

Sound Eq said:


> I am glad i bought the regular version and its totally silent


The pro version is silent as well.  I did hear that noise initially but I fixed the USB ground loop and the faulty ground on my power cable.  The usb implementation could be improve.


----------



## bouscadie

For my part, I am quite dissatisfied. One shouldn't have to wonder with equipment at this price. And the reason I bought it is precisely because I didn't want to have to ask myself questions. For the moment, there is something inexplicable with some versions of the 590 "pro" that make noise and others that don't. 
Here, there is no relation with mass loops.


----------



## dkar

I just received a v590 Pro today and I have to say that I think this may be it for me when it comes to buying headphone amps for a very long time.  The DAC is very good as well based on my initial impressions.  I've been primarily listening to the v590 with my HE1000se's with the DAC upsampling set to "Best".

That being said, has anyone had the chance to pair the Schiit Gungnir or Yggdrasil with the v590?  I'm not looking to get either of these DACs right away but I am interested in thoughts around the pairings as well as other DAC recommendations.


----------



## vkenz

dkar said:


> I just received a v590 Pro today and I have to say that I think this may be it for me when it comes to buying headphone amps for a very long time.  The DAC is very good as well based on my initial impressions.  I've been primarily listening to the v590 with my HE1000se's with the DAC upsampling set to "Best".
> 
> That being said, has anyone had the chance to pair the Schiit Gungnir or Yggdrasil with the v590?  I'm not looking to get either of these DACs right away but I am interested in thoughts around the pairings as well as other DAC recommendations.


I think it would be best to use the internal DAC.  It seems like it is the best amp until volume control crackle sound shows up.  Then the V281 again become the Apex AMP.


----------



## UntilThen

dkar said:


> I just received a v590 Pro today and I have to say that I think this may be it for me when it comes to buying headphone amps for a very long time.  The DAC is very good as well based on my initial impressions.  I've been primarily listening to the v590 with my HE1000se's with the DAC upsampling set to "Best".
> 
> That being said, has anyone had the chance to pair the Schiit Gungnir or Yggdrasil with the v590?  I'm not looking to get either of these DACs right away but I am interested in thoughts around the pairings as well as other DAC recommendations.


Congrats. I have a hunch that it will pair very well with He1000se.


----------



## vonBaron

I will soon test V590, my two friends who listen it says that AMP section i very good but DAC section is "meh".


----------



## wgkwgk

vonBaron said:


> I will soon test V590, my two friends who listen it says that AMP section i very good but DAC section is "meh".


OK. On my radar is to keep my Cayin iDAC-6 MK2 and add the V550 pro.  Else, I toss the Cayin and get the V590.

Thoughts???  (I'm getting trigger happy....)


----------



## vonBaron

If you want using V590 with USB input i think you can stay with Cayin.


----------



## project86

I would absolutely not call the integrated DAC "meh". Haven't heard the Cayin iDAC-6 mk2, but I've owned the original iDAC-6 for years and very much enjoy it. The integrated Violectric DAC is better imho. While the Cayin has the benefit of being adjustable with the tube stage, thus giving more flavors for system synergy, I don't think any configuration is actually on the same level as the V590 DAC stage. 

I imagine V590 and iDAC-6 mk2 plus V550 are both worthy routes to consider.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Agree, also more natural and less macrodetail pushy and flat sounding than the Hugo 2.


----------



## bouscadie

vonBaron said:


> Je vais bientôt tester le V590, mes deux amis qui l'écoutent disent que la section AMP est très bonne mais la section DAC est "meh".


is it sheep to make "meh"? 

The amp is excellent, the dac is superb, I've never had anything that makes music like that. (I had dacs up to 3000 €, dangerous convert for example). This is what we are all looking for, emotion and technical accuracy, everything is there.


----------



## vonBaron

Anyone hear any changes in sound with resampling?


----------



## project86

Pretty minor, but can be more significant when using a low quality transport. In that case resampling will tighten things up, reign in treble response, and solidify imaging. 

I haven't really tried to nail down the differences between the different resample options though.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Mar 19, 2021)

Yeah, it's not needed with a Pi2AES or similar but there's no real downside to it either, especially since it does not impart a let's say "early days temporal anti-aliasing" to the sound, meaning smoothing slightly too much (for my liking) over or making everything a bit overpolished. This is what I found on older solutions. The precision is just way better now.

It seems especially useful when using USB in.


----------



## vonBaron (Mar 19, 2021)

As a DAC / AMP, it sounds very musical, warm, smooth, but it does not lack resolution, dynamics, air, although I recommend avoiding the USB input because it is weak. Just full body sounding combo!

As the AMP + Sonnet Morpheus is definitely better, more neutral, with better bass control, more pronounced treble, more claw and better soundstage, in some aspect i like the V590 amplifier more than the GS-X mini I had. My unit have very quiet clicks on volume control ( i have Pro version).

You can feel that the V590 is a high-end device, very well made of decent raw materials, a great, heavy metal remote control.

I think the V550 is 80% Niimbus quality.


----------



## sahmen

vonBaron said:


> You can feel that the V590 is a high-end device, very well made of decent raw materials, a great, heavy metal remote control.
> 
> *I think the V550 is 80% Niimbus quality.*


So to ask one question I have been obsessing about and beating to death on almost every thread that mentions this V550 and the Niimbus, how transformational is that last 20% in terms of the Niimbus driving the Susvara, as compared to the V550?

As you might well know, I also own the Morpheus and the V281.  I could jump on one of the V550s that are currently on Drop, but I do not want to jump and start pining after a nimbus, because that would neither be fair to the V550 or myself.

Now to ask a question you might be able to answer easily, how would you describe the nature of that last 20% in concrete audiophile terms?  More (wider, deeper) soundstage, more "air"? more extension at both ends?  More detail?  Blacker background? better imaging, less fatigue?


----------



## vonBaron

I don't own Susvara so i can't reply to that question.


> Now to ask a question you might be able to answer easily, how would you describe the nature of that last 20% in concrete audiophile terms? More (wider, deeper) soundstage, more "air"? more extension at both ends? More detail? Blacker background? better imaging?


I say YES on everything, Niimbus is just one level above vs V550. Truly end game AMP!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes on the Niimbus for the Susvara. Just be done with it, Sahmen. Sell the V281, the Flux and a few headphones.


----------



## Miller

Listening to the Morpheus->Niimbus->Susvara as I type. I can't comment on differences since I did not A/B, but I can assure that this is a very pleasing combo. Since I have taken care of re-clocking my next step would be Susvara Cable and DAC. Upgrading the AMP I assume I'd had to reach beyond the 10k mark.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> Yes on the Niimbus for the Susvara. Just be done with it, Sahmen. Sell the V281, the Flux and a few headphones.


Touché, so about how much lead time am I go to need after placing the order for a US5 or a US5 pro, with the constraints of "pandemic time" and circumstances taken into account?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Arthur has them in stock already.


----------



## Miller

Once the next run is ready I am sure you'll be able to get your hands on one.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> Arthur has them in stock already.


OMG!  That was quick!


----------



## vonBaron (Mar 20, 2021)

Well my AB1266 TC sound great with V590 (as a AMP) so i highly recommend V550!
V590 (V550) is more warm than Niimbus with it only helps 1266 to play great!


----------



## bluenight

sahmen said:


> So to ask one question I have been obsessing about and beating to death on almost every thread that mentions this V550 and the Niimbus, how transformational is that last 20% in terms of the Niimbus driving the Susvara, as compared to the V550?


If you already paid so much for Susvara you probebly need an end game amp like niimbus to really get the most of it. If you can save up.


----------



## F Bizzle (Mar 31, 2021)

I haven't confirmed with Arthur, but the power holdings site shows the V590 will come with an ESS based DAC rather than the AK 4490.






Recently I got an Singxer SU-2 DDC. I thought the internal DAC on the V590 was adequate, though it is not as high performing as some of the other DACS that I have paired with it -- on USB. However, using a DDC, and then AES into the V590 with internal AK4490, performance has been shocking to my ears. I'm believer that this DAC is extremely good and is tuned really nicely with the amp. Resolution, tighter bass, less 'forced' treble have all been what I experience just by switching to AES or spdif input from a DDC. I'd definately recommend using a digital interface with the V590 (ie. Pi2AES, Singxer Su1/2, Martrix Spdif 2, Denafrips Iris, etc)

I've had the LampizatOr Amber 3 as my main configuration, but I'm trying out a Berkeley Alpha DAC Series 2.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

That makes sense.  There is a a 2-3 month wait for the new version as well.  This is obviously due to the AKM factory fire.  Of course I am curious on how it will sound but I would bet that they are going to do a good job at matching the sound of the two versions.  
Interesting observations about USB vs AES or SPDIF.  I have not tried those yet.  I dont even have a good AES cable since my old set up was just USB from my SOtM streamer and am not really a fan of using a DDC if I dont have to, less boxes.  I have since sold my SOTM set up as my other one got destroyed.  I didn't want unlatching setups lol.  After like 2 months of testing all the main Roon ready streamers, I ended up with the Lumin U1 mini and it has an AES output on it so I have to get around to trying that.  Ill order a cable now, lol.

How do you like the Berkeley compared to the Amber 3.  I am spinning about a decision to get a new R2R DAC.  So many good options now I have been curious if the Amber 3's price can be justified compared to Holo Audio, Denafrips , Sonnet, etc...


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

wgkwgk said:


> OK. On my radar is to keep my Cayin iDAC-6 MK2 and add the V550 pro.  Else, I toss the Cayin and get the V590.
> 
> Thoughts???  (I'm getting trigger happy....)


I had both the Cayin DAC and the V590.  Sold the Cayin DAC last week


----------



## project86

I would have really disagreed with you about USB quality but then I recently tried the V590 using a more traditional cable, and now I see/hear your point. I have been using my BMC PureUSB1 active cable which apparently does wonders in cleaning up the result, making it on par with AES and coax. But using any other USB cable, I hear a bit of deficiency. It's still good imho but doesn't quite capture the full potential of the DAC. 

I guess I need to stop using the BMC for reviews when testing USB, as it gives a sort of "false positive". 

Meanwhile I highly recommend the Matrix X-SPDIF II for USB to SPDIF conversion. It's cheap, small, sounds great, extremely well built, and has room to grow by adding external linear power.


----------



## bouscadie

interesting thanks, so rather Singxer Su1 or Matrix Matrix X? and rather AES or SPDIF to enter V590?


----------



## project86

I prefer the Matrix, though Singxer is great as well. And I prefer AES over coax but coax is not bad at all.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I finally got round to publishing my V590 review.

https://www.headfonia.com/violectric-dha-v590-review/


----------



## bouscadie

project86 said:


> I prefer the Matrix, though Singxer is great as well. And I prefer AES over coax but coax is not bad at all.


Ok, V590 could stay at home for a bit, so we'll try to improve it a bit, thanks for the leads.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Go Pi2AES to the V590. Unbeatable for the price. Even routes my Lynx AES. At least a bit, but for far less money.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 2, 2021)

I have nothing to compare it to, and I don't have a V590. But for anybody who is looking for a well-built USB reclocker which has very good connectivity, I'm happy with my Mutec MC-3+ USB. There is also a version without USB if you don't need USB input. It's a bit cheaper.


----------



## qboogie

Ultrainferno said:


> I finally got round to publishing my V590 review.
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/violectric-dha-v590-review/


Nice review. Would love to hear EVEN more about how it compares to the US4/5 headamp.


----------



## monkey4054

I'm interested in the v590 as I like the simplicity and integration of all-in-one units. I currently have the RME ADI-2 FS and whilst it is an incredible little unit, I always have the itch to 'upgrade' or try something different. Wondering how the 590 stacks up to other all-in-one units like the Hugo 2, TT2, Questyle CMA, RME, etc.?


----------



## vonBaron

Why not?


----------



## bouscadie

monkey4054 said:


> I'm interested in the v590 as I like the simplicity and integration of all-in-one units. I currently have the RME ADI-2 FS and whilst it is an incredible little unit, I always have the itch to 'upgrade' or try something different. Wondering how the 590 stacks up to other all-in-one units like the Hugo 2, TT2, Questyle CMA, RME, etc.?


having had the RME and the Questyle (twelve master), the 590 is a step above. We take the grain and the heat of the twelve and add the precision of the RME and it results in a formidable machine. Cheers


----------



## project86

monkey4054 said:


> I'm interested in the v590 as I like the simplicity and integration of all-in-one units. I currently have the RME ADI-2 FS and whilst it is an incredible little unit, I always have the itch to 'upgrade' or try something different. Wondering how the 590 stacks up to other all-in-one units like the Hugo 2, TT2, Questyle CMA, RME, etc.?



I agree with the above post - V590 is in a higher tier compared to those. 

I've spent lots of time with the Hugo 2 family and all the RME ADI-2 models, along with the Questyle CMA800i (not the newer models but I don't think they are vastly different). All have their strong points and I would recommend any of them within the right context. But V590 stands above the lot by having significantly more fleshed out tonality, and more "drive" when dealing with big planars and other more difficult headphones. 

One might think "well it should considering the price". True, it sells for $1k more than the Hugo 2 and CMA800i. But keep in mind the Chord TT2 is actually more expensive, and personally I rate it below V590 without question.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hugo 2 was absolutely mediocre. All macrodetail less substance. Limpish too. Don't want to hear the TT2 at all with this in mind. 
I get why it's a favorite though. Good for an hour, falls apart when compared to DACs that actually do more than just macro, are denser in tone and are especially
superb in microdynamics (macro is important too, no doubt, Hugo 2 can't do either well).

Would love to go into indepth with the Wavelight (a bit too expensive unfortunately) and a few pro DACs like those from Prism Audio, Burl.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

project86 said:


> I agree with the above post - V590 is in a higher tier compared to those.
> 
> I've spent lots of time with the Hugo 2 family and all the RME ADI-2 models, along with the Questyle CMA800i (not the newer models but I don't think they are vastly different). All have their strong points and I would recommend any of them within the right context. But V590 stands above the lot by having significantly more fleshed out tonality, and more "drive" when dealing with big planars and other more difficult headphones.
> 
> One might think "well it should considering the price". True, it sells for $1k more than the Hugo 2 and CMA800i. But keep in mind the Chord TT2 is actually more expensive, and personally I rate it below V590 without question.


Currently, I see there is a huge following on the Chord stack of TT2/Mscaler. So I always have this question in my mind on how the V590 compares with the TT2. Great to read your impression that the V590 is the superior option; despite the inverse price relationship.

I do not own the V590(yet) but I do have the Vio V850/V280 stack (with RS05 Femto). This 3-pieces combo sounds simply awesome with my ZMF Verite/Aeolus so I can imagine how good the V590 would sound as an all-in-one new gen. I count myself lucky to have discovered the Violectric brand and owning its fantastic range of products.


----------



## monkey4054

bouscadie said:


> having had the RME and the Questyle (twelve master), the 590 is a step above. We take the grain and the heat of the twelve and add the precision of the RME and it results in a formidable machine. Cheers





project86 said:


> I agree with the above post - V590 is in a higher tier compared to those.
> 
> I've spent lots of time with the Hugo 2 family and all the RME ADI-2 models, along with the Questyle CMA800i (not the newer models but I don't think they are vastly different). All have their strong points and I would recommend any of them within the right context. But V590 stands above the lot by having significantly more fleshed out tonality, and more "drive" when dealing with big planars and other more difficult headphones.
> 
> One might think "well it should considering the price". True, it sells for $1k more than the Hugo 2 and CMA800i. But keep in mind the Chord TT2 is actually more expensive, and personally I rate it below V590 without question.


Thank you for your replies. My wallet is going to hate you! haha The V590 is now at the top of my list!


----------



## project86

monkey4054 said:


> Thank you for your replies. My wallet is going to hate you! haha The V590 is now at the top of my list!



Sorry! That is, unless you were leaning towards the TT2, in which case I saved you some dough... You're welcome!


----------



## monkey4054

project86 said:


> Sorry! That is, unless you were leaning towards the TT2, in which case I saved you some dough... You're welcome!


Haha You're right, thank you!


----------



## dkar

I've had the v590 for almost 2 months now and initially I started off feeding the v590 from my DAP via optical.  Recently I set up a Roon ROCK and started using USB which resulted in a significant improvement in sound.  I have a Pi2AES coming in the next month or so and I'm excited to see if this results in any additional sonic improvements.

All this being said, I'm also considering getting a separate DAC to use with v590 and I'm curious to get thoughts on whether it would be a worthwhile investment based on high quality of the v590 DAC.  My budget would be $3k at the absolute maximum.   I was initially looking at R2R DACs such as the Schiit Yggdrasil, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (since the Spring 2 is now discontinued), and the Denafrips Pontus II.  I'm also open to other DAC options that would work well with the v590.  I'm looking for something that would be smooth/euphoric but would still maintain a high level of detail.  I listen to mostly folk, rock and some pop during my free time and classical and jazz when I work.

My chain would consist of the following:

NAS -> Roon ROCK (also using Tidal) -> Pi2AES -> DAC -> v590 -> Hifiman HE1000se


----------



## Fegefeuer

Using Roon over PI2AES with RopieeeXL and AES to the V590 myself. You will reap even more benefits.


----------



## project86

dkar said:


> I've had the v590 for almost 2 months now and initially I started off feeding the v590 from my DAP via optical.  Recently I set up a Roon ROCK and started using USB which resulted in a significant improvement in sound.  I have a Pi2AES coming in the next month or so and I'm excited to see if this results in any additional sonic improvements.
> 
> All this being said, I'm also considering getting a separate DAC to use with v590 and I'm curious to get thoughts on whether it would be a worthwhile investment based on high quality of the v590 DAC.  My budget would be $3k at the absolute maximum.   I was initially looking at R2R DACs such as the Schiit Yggdrasil, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (since the Spring 2 is now discontinued), and the Denafrips Pontus II.  I'm also open to other DAC options that would work well with the v590.  I'm looking for something that would be smooth/euphoric but would still maintain a high level of detail.  I listen to mostly folk, rock and some pop during my free time and classical and jazz when I work.
> 
> ...



"Worthwhile investment" is a relative term for sure. Running V590 fed by a Sonnet Morpheus (NOS R2R so theoretically quite different than the internal V590 DAC) is an improvement for sure, but I wouldn't call it drastic. Bigger dynamics, slightly more extended/convincing treble, and a richer tonality which may or may not actually be desirable depending on your preferences.  

I would only say it's worth the effort if everything else in your chain is already at the level where it can't offer any improvement. I'm talking relatively little stuff like cables, power conditioning, modest vibration control, negative ion generator, the works (I might be kidding on some of those but you get the idea). 

The downside is that by then you could have saved money by going with V550 and the external DAC, but what's done is done.


----------



## vonBaron

For me Sonnet Morpheus is way better than internal V590 DAC, it's hughe improvement.


----------



## project86

It probably comes down to our definitions of "huge" improvement. 

I consider that to be something immediately obvious, even to someone who is not particularly well versed in high-end audio. If I attempt to show my wife or kids the difference between two DACs, and have to explain what they should be listening for, and watch the strain on their face as they maybe-kinda-sorta hear what I'm talking about but are most likely just humoring me... I wouldn't call that huge. 

Contrast that with showing them an HD800 vs LCD-4, or when I swap out my Usher towers for Harbeth standmounts. All are great in their own way but very easily discernable between one another. They can easily identify each and will quickly establish a preference for one or the other.

I guess my point is that once we hit a suitably high level of quality - which I submit the V590 DAC does reach - we have left the realm of so-called night and day differences. Instead we are now in a more subjective area where there certainly are character differences and improvements to be found, but those will never be of the same magnitude as a speaker/headphone upgrade. 

Anyway this is all just semantics. I'm not saying someone would not be happy with an excellent DAC like Morpheus (which I love!) but rather that it may not be the most important upgrade from V590 used as all-in-one, depending on the rest of the system.


----------



## F Bizzle

project86 said:


> Anyway this is all just semantics. I'm not saying someone would not be happy with an excellent DAC like Morpheus (which I love!) but rather that it may not be the most important upgrade from V590 used as all-in-one, depending on the rest of the system.


I have yet to try a Morpheus, as it's something that I am curious about, yet at the same time, I worry that its bass slam/impact may not be up to what I've been trying to achieve with my d/s DACS (Lampi Amber 3/Berkely Alpha S2). I am however waiting to see what how a Spring 3 would be described, as well as an A3 Yggy. The other R2R DAC that I'm currently considering based on some recommendations is the Aqua La Voce S3 DAC. 

I've kind of already ruled out the Spring 2, Wavelight, and to a certain extent the Morpheus, as my next DAC rolling specimens, but your rec is bringing it back up on my list to try.

As an aside, I did grab a Pass HPA-1 since you mentioned it as one of your favorite amps. I can see why, it is very nice, and I think it pairs supremely well with the Amber 3 as a super fun combo which leans slightly less neutral than the V590-balanced. However, the V590 single ended, there is a lot of over-lap with the Pass HPA-1. I find myself always preferring the V590.


----------



## bouscadie

project86 said:


> It probably comes down to our definitions of "huge" improvement.
> 
> I consider that to be something immediately obvious, even to someone who is not particularly well versed in high-end audio. If I attempt to show my wife or kids the difference between two DACs, and have to explain what they should be listening for, and watch the strain on their face as they maybe-kinda-sorta hear what I'm talking about but are most likely just humoring me... I wouldn't call that huge.
> 
> ...


I wanted to say the exact same thing, but I certainly wouldn't have done it with so much elegance and restraint because some words like “huge” are so funny on some occasions. So thank you for doing it!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dkar said:


> I've had the v590 for almost 2 months now and initially I started off feeding the v590 from my DAP via optical.  Recently I set up a Roon ROCK and started using USB which resulted in a significant improvement in sound.  I have a Pi2AES coming in the next month or so and I'm excited to see if this results in any additional sonic improvements.
> 
> All this being said, I'm also considering getting a separate DAC to use with v590 and I'm curious to get thoughts on whether it would be a worthwhile investment based on high quality of the v590 DAC.  My budget would be $3k at the absolute maximum.   I was initially looking at R2R DACs such as the Schiit Yggdrasil, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE (since the Spring 2 is now discontinued), and the Denafrips Pontus II.  I'm also open to other DAC options that would work well with the v590.  I'm looking for something that would be smooth/euphoric but would still maintain a high level of detail.  I listen to mostly folk, rock and some pop during my free time and classical and jazz when I work.
> 
> ...


Take a look at Audio-gd. He has some new revs and his R2R DACs are pretty amazing builds. I have a cheap one and I love it. I'm thinking of getting the R8MKII.

They're boat anchors though, not desktop gear.


----------



## bluenight (Apr 17, 2021)

project86 said:


> I would only say it's worth the effort if everything else in your chain is already at the level where it can't offer any improvement. I'm talking relatively little stuff like cables, power conditioning, modest vibration control, negative ion generator, the works (I might be kidding on some of those but you get the idea).


Ethernet tweaks is overlooked to improve sound if streaming audio imo. Theres audiophile switches and ethernet filters and better ethernet cables. 

I bought 2 ifi ipower x and replaced the standard power supplys for tp link ax 50 router and netgear gs108 switch. At first day listening i did not hear any difference but one week later i noticed my system have never sounded this good before. So maybe there was som hours burn in time.

From streamer to Lake People RS02 amp
Fatest bass i have heard. Now HD800S is bass king maybe not with sub bass because hp limitation but with mid bass. More warmer smoother bass with more air its like its leaving the hp and hoover more around and more articulate.

Treble harden up less and sound more sofisticated and detailed less sibilance more articulate.

Less glare and grain in voices.

Overall a cleaner warmer open airier sound. details is easier to hear. Probebly more dynamic also because sound dont collapse harden up as much at both ends, mute bass and treble information . I dont suspect placebo.

Even my Apple TV 4k got cleaner/sharper picture with my oled tv and with same sound improvements. 

iFi audio has said its system dependent though if you will hear an improvement. Maybe if you have gear that clean up things very well allready but i think you will here an improvement anyway.


----------



## project86

It's always interesting to hear what gets results for some people, or what doesn't. For some it is PSU upgrades, for others it is USB tweaks, and for others it is vibration platforms, and on and on. Personally I have had great results with some stuff and absolutely zero benefit in other cases. I won't begrudge people for enjoying whatever tweak they want, but I also don't buy into a lot of the wacky stuff you see out there. 

My general philosophy is to always balance your system. Unfortunately I see a lot of people get that wrong. Folks with expensive systems spending big bucks on vibration control, cable risers, and Ethernet cables, but then just using a stock MacBook for USB playback? That's not balanced. They are missing the low-hanging fruit of a better transport in order to fiddle with aspects that are orders of magnitude smaller in terms of potential. 

Anyway, I'm rambling off topic now. Sorry. Back to the V590.


----------



## bluenight (Apr 19, 2021)

project86 said:


> It's always interesting to hear what gets results for some people, or what doesn't. For some it is PSU upgrades, for others it is USB tweaks, and for others it is vibration platforms, and on and on. Personally I have had great results with some stuff and absolutely zero benefit in other cases. I won't begrudge people for enjoying whatever tweak they want, but I also don't buy into a lot of the wacky stuff you see out there.
> 
> My general philosophy is to always balance your system. Unfortunately I see a lot of people get that wrong. Folks with expensive systems spending big bucks on vibration control, cable risers, and Ethernet cables, but then just using a stock MacBook for USB playback? That's not balanced. They are missing the low-hanging fruit of a better transport in order to fiddle with aspects that are orders of magnitude smaller in terms of potential.
> 
> Anyway, I'm rambling off topic now. Sorry. Back to the V590.


Yes the upstream source is just as important, as clean as possible, computers are noisy. To make your HP, Amp, Dac to truly shine. New to me recently and seems trendy now is products that do reclocking and digital interfaces. Could be something for me to invest in maybe. Also it was one review of V590 that highlighted the reclocking feature for me. To be little on topic 

Maybe a good rule is to fix the weakest  link in the chain first.

Also on reading the Chord vs Lake people comparisions. I can and enjoy both companies products i own, and what they offer, even though they are probebly midfi.


----------



## bouscadie

the usb interface really brings something to the sound, better for my taste and it is perfectly audible. I asked the question to the manufacturer who told him that it has no interest, whatever the input the dac deconstructs and reconstructs the signal .... still a mystery ....


----------



## vonBaron

Why is the V590 Pro's volume potentiometer so weak? It is practically impossible to control the volume other than via the remote control, manual control causes pops, interference and strange momentary increases in volume (really big). I think it qualifies for a guarantee. A really strange thing because the surcharge for the Pro version is really big and IMO is worse than the regular version.


----------



## Terriero

vonBaron said:


> Why is the V590 Pro's volume potentiometer so weak? It is practically impossible to control the volume other than via the remote control, manual control causes pops, interference and strange momentary increases in volume (really big). I think it qualifies for a guarantee. A really strange thing because the surcharge for the Pro version is really big and IMO is worse than the regular version.


So, you have the pro version and these issues with noise while change the volume?. I hate that in my Asus Xonar Essence One, even I quit my headphones when changing volume because is so annoying. If other people confirm this issue (some pages behind, I read about that), I won't buy a product that has the same issues I dislike from the product I come...


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, exactly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You have a US5? I didn't know those were even out yet.


----------



## Fegefeuer

just buy the non PRO version if the volume bothers you so much.


----------



## vonBaron

gimmeheadroom said:


> You have a US5? I didn't know those were even out yet.


No i will have mid May that why i am worried.


----------



## bouscadie

yes, this volume knob asks me questions every day and a return in warranty is always considered, I felt like I was the only one ....
Frankly, it's a shame because the rest is excellent.


----------



## bouscadie

Fegefeuer said:


> just buy the non PRO version if the volume bothers you so much.


an informed man is worth two they say, I would have liked to be as it should be before buying.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Apr 22, 2021)

Ok, that was harsh. If you believe your volume is broken definitely get support and don't let months pass by.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

vonBaron said:


> No i will have mid May that why i am worried.


Ah ok. I saw your signature and wondered if you were an official tester or something.

Just momentary flash of jealousy


----------



## Fegefeuer

US5 Pro is just a US4+ with an additional 4.4mm connection and non PRO is the exact same device, just without the reed relais volume control.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> US5 Pro is just a US4+ with an additional 4.4mm connection and non PRO is the exact same device, just without the reed relais volume control.


Ah thanks. I feel better. I don't do 4,4 or run portable gear off desktop amps


----------



## vonBaron

But US5 give you +5 to respect.


----------



## Fegefeuer

gimmeheadroom said:


> Ah thanks. I feel better. I don't do 4,4 or run portable gear off desktop amps



I think it's a good feature. Definitely makes buying cables easier for gear like the HE-1000SE, TH-900 mk2 or similar headphones.


----------



## mammal

Fegefeuer said:


> I think it's a good feature.


I wish more amp manufactures were doing this!


gimmeheadroom said:


> Ah thanks. I feel better. I don't do 4,4 or run portable gear off desktop amps


I used to own Abyss Diana V2 with 4.4mm SC cable, was pairing it with a portable amp (BX2-Plus) that had 4.4mm. But when I wanted to connect it to my desktop amplifiers (V281 or HTT2) none of them have 4.4mm, so had to buy myself an adapter. So yeah, I wish more desktop amps had 4.4mm.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> I think it's a good feature. Definitely makes buying cables easier for gear like the HE-1000SE, TH-900 mk2 or similar headphones.


I don't know why you say that. I had no problem buying balanced Fostex cables with XLR or 1/4 inch SE plugs.



mammal said:


> I wish more amp manufactures were doing this!
> 
> I used to own Abyss Diana V2 with 4.4mm SC cable, was pairing it with a portable amp (BX2-Plus) that had 4.4mm. But when I wanted to connect it to my desktop amplifiers (V281 or HTT2) none of them have 4.4mm, so had to buy myself an adapter. So yeah, I wish more desktop amps had 4.4mm.


But you could also get an XLR cable, couldn't you?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's pretty easy to understand in the context of the Niimbus.

The US456789 have 4 amps inside. 4.4mm and XLR both offer full access. A SE connector does not. Imagine having a DAP with 4.4mm and wanting to profit from both the US456789's s design AND the DAP too, with just one cable. 

Guess which connector is the best solution.


----------



## mammal

gimmeheadroom said:


> But you could also get an XLR cable, couldn't you?


Yes, XLR cable is available for Diana V2, the issue is that if you are using it sometimes at your desktop and sometimes portable (like I was) then you are kinda left with two options 1) have 4.4 to XLR adapter; or 2) convert from XLR to 4.4. This, unless if you have both desktop and portable amps taking the same input. I did not find many portable (powerful) amps that had XLR output, the best had 4.4mm. Now with desktop amps it is the other way around, most do have XLR, but not 4.4mm. Hope this explains the situation I was in better.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 22, 2021)

mammal said:


> Yes, XLR cable is available for Diana V2, the issue is that if you are using it sometimes at your desktop and sometimes portable (like I was) then you are kinda left with two options 1) have 4.4 to XLR adapter; or 2) convert from XLR to 4.4. This, unless if you have both desktop and portable amps taking the same input. I did not find many portable (powerful) amps that had XLR output, the best had 4.4mm. Now with desktop amps it is the other way around, most do have XLR, but not 4.4mm. Hope this explains the situation I was in better.


Ah, I see. I go with different cables with hardware hardwired connectors, since I hate adapters.


----------



## dkar

Has anyone tried pairing a Holo Audio May KTE with the v590/v550? Would love to hear some impressions.


----------



## fsi22

I plan on getting the V590 for my Susvara. Are there any issues to consider before?


----------



## infinitejustice

fsi22 said:


> I plan on getting the V590 for my Susvara. Are there any issues to consider before?


No concern, I am using V590 Pro with Susvara, sounds great.  Note that you may want to boost gain a little (there's switch in the back), at +0 db you have to turn the nob up 2/3 way to get Susvara at its full performance, which leaves little headroom.

No complaint here except the price of V590, lol, sounds great!


----------



## dkar

fsi22 said:


> I plan on getting the V590 for my Susvara. Are there any issues to consider before?



I just got the Susvara a couple of days ago to pair with my v590. I’ve only had 2-3 hours to listen to them so far but it does sound really good with it.

I definitely would recommend increasing the gain. I have my gain set to +12db.

I do feel like an amp like the Niimbus US5+ may pair slightly better with it based on what I read or you could always try a speaker amp as well.

All that being said, I’m very happy with the v590 and Susvara pairing and have no plans to change this any time soon.


----------



## fsi22

dkar said:


> I just got the Susvara a couple of days ago to pair with my v590. I’ve only had 2-3 hours to listen to them so far but it does sound really good with it.
> 
> I definitely would recommend increasing the gain. I have my gain set to +12db.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'm space limited. Area that I have for an amp is 480mm x 390mm x 100mm. Based on their manuals, the V590 and Topping A90 are the only 2 locally available units, I could find that fit within those dimensions and are able to produce 15V continous output or more.


----------



## fsi22

infinitejustice said:


> No concern, I am using V590 Pro with Susvara, sounds great.  Note that you may want to boost gain a little (there's switch in the back), at +0 db you have to turn the nob up 2/3 way to get Susvara at its full performance, which leaves little headroom.
> 
> No complaint here except the price of V590, lol, sounds great!


Thank you, so no reliability or other issues.


----------



## Fegefeuer

fsi22 said:


> I plan on getting the V590 for my Susvara. Are there any issues to consider before?



a) always use the XLR connection for most power and to employ all the 4 amps inside
b) use the pre-gain on the back as already stated but don't go overboard. If you're at 12'o clock for most of the time it's ideal.
c) Try to avoid USB unless you insist on DSD etc. and use the XLR in with a good source/streamer.


----------



## bouscadie

Why not USB ?


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask please for crazy to drive headphones, such as he6se, would I get better results if i use the ifi pro dsd as preamp to my violectric 590, than using the volume control; of my vioelectric 590 amp and the ifi at fixed volume output


----------



## LeMoviedave

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask please for crazy to drive headphones, such as he6se, would I get better results if i use the ifi pro dsd as preamp to my violectric 590, than using the volume control; of my vioelectric 590 amp and the ifi at fixed volume output


The V590 has more than enough power blow the drivers out of the he6se on its own.


----------



## bouscadie




----------



## Terriero

There is a new version of the V590 (mk2), I saw yesterday at Thomann. Like other manufacturers, they went with the ESS-Tech ES9026 PRO Converter for the DAC section.

Would be great to see a comparison with the old version (I think it had AKM chips).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, the AKM fire made them to look for alternatives.


----------



## project86

Also curious about how the redesigned DAC may sound. Interesting that they went with ES9026 Pro - not many devices use it, but the one I have experience with (Keces S3) is excellent. 

Of course, the actual DAC chip itself is arguably one of the smaller contributors to SQ, versus output stage, power supply, upsampling/resampling, clocking and jitter control, etc etc. I trust Fried to make the most of whatever chip is involved, and he may in fact be able to extract a functionally identical sound out of the ESS chip compared to the AKM.


----------



## Fatdoi

Hi has anyone tried the updated V5902?

Also has anyone used or using Luxman P750u that can compare with V590?


----------



## project86

I don't know if there are many (or any?) V2 models out there yet, both for the V590 and V380. I know they planned on shipping early September so maybe we'll get some impressions pretty soon.

As far as I know there is no difference to the amp/preamp portion. It's just a redesigned DAC based around an ESS chip, since the AKM supply got burned up in a fire. Hopefully the DAC section retains the same (excellent) performance.


----------



## aleniola76

project86 said:


> As far as I know there is no difference to the amp/preamp portion


There is a 4.4 pentaconn output replacing one of the 6.3 ones.
Moreover, the AKM version has a resampling switch, disappearwd from the 380v2


----------



## project86

Good point - forgot that change. Still identical from an amp design perspective but the jack is indeed different (and useful for a lot of users). 

I am not sure what the dac section is doing with regard to upsampling. Maybe using the integrated ESS Hyperstream modulation? In that case, there isn't typically an option for changing or defeating it, so that probably explains the lack of a button/switch.


----------



## aleniola76

project86 said:


> Good point - forgot that change. Still identical from an amp design perspective but the jack is indeed different (and useful for a lot of users).
> 
> I am not sure what the dac section is doing with regard to upsampling. Maybe using the integrated ESS Hyperstream modulation? In that case, there isn't typically an option for changing or defeating it, so that probably explains the lack of a button/switch.


I am not sure either.
What I know is that the original project was relying in AKM. Things changed beceause the AKM factory burned down…


----------



## Fatdoi

aleniola76 said:


> There is a 4.4 pentaconn output replacing one of the 6.3 ones.
> Moreover, the AKM version has a resampling switch, disappearwd from the 380v2


My post on V550 thread was that most of my HP and IEM cables were terminated in 4.4mm so V590v2 seems a good option to look into..



aleniola76 said:


> I am not sure either.
> What I know is that the original project was relying in AKM. Things changed beceause the AKM factory burned down…


Maybe Vio had to redesign the DAC part for the ESS chip? will be interesting to see how the implementation will sound like


----------



## aleniola76

Fatdoi said:


> My post on V550 thread was that most of my HP and IEM cables were terminated in 4.4mm so V590v2 seems a good option to look into..
> 
> 
> Maybe Vio had to redesign the DAC part for the ESS chip? will be interesting to see how the implementation will sound like


Indeed 

I can say that the AKM sounds great, I have the DHA 380 in my set up since a couple of days and I am really loving it.


----------



## Womaz

I have been considering an upgrade to my amp after getting the 1266TCs recently . So I have read this whole thread and I was more or less convinced this was the way to go ….then on the last page there is a DAC chip change 😀😀 
Are there any reviews or impressions with the new DAC? 
I am considering a few options but as I am in the UK the Violectric products have always appealed .
Do I go for the amp without the DAC now and get an external DAC


----------



## musicus (Oct 9, 2021)

Womaz said:


> I have been considering an upgrade to my amp after getting the 1266TCs recently . So I have read this whole thread and I was more or less convinced this was the way to go ….then on the last page there is a DAC chip change 😀😀
> Are there any reviews or impressions with the new DAC?
> I am considering a few options but as I am in the UK the Violectric products have always appealed .
> Do I go for the amp without the DAC now and get an external DAC


Depends, if you're likely to lust after a different DAC in the near future, maybe a ladder-type topology (Denafrips, HOLO AUDIO) or an FPGA-based (Chord, PS Audio), or perhaps run a streamer with a built-in DAC (Cambridge Audio CXN) or a DAC with a built-in streamer (Matrix X-Sabre 3, PS Audio) then a DAC-less version is better. Also, I think a DAC-less amp is a better resale value as DAC chips age pretty quickly, unlike excellent amps...


----------



## Fegefeuer

DAC implementations matter and good ones do not age quickly. No 4096bit DAC will help you if your analog output stage is mediocre. Unless you want to go the way of the Topping and buy your DACs like gaming GPUs as ASR does, you're better of listening for yourself via loaners and then decide. Or look for local meets in your area, make friends even.

Personally I'd rather get the AiO and enjoy a pretty good DAC implementation (and also have a second DAC and use active monitors independantly etc), however I have no idea about the non AKM version. I'd miss the clock and resampling circuits but there is always some light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## Womaz (Oct 9, 2021)

Thanks for the replies guys , they are helpful.
Unfortunately for me in the NE of England it is very difficult to audition gear.
I think I am undecided which way to go, all in one for the convenience or the amp only to maybe allow R2R DAC addition.
I assume that if I went for the DHA590 then at a later date I could still use an external DAC with it if thats the way I decided to go?
Has anyone used this amp with the Abyss 1266TC?


----------



## aleniola76

Womaz said:


> Thanks for the replies guys , they are helpful.
> Unfortunately for me in the NE of England it is very difficult to audition gear.
> I think I am undecided which way to go, all in one for the convenience or the amp only to maybe allow R2R DAC addition.
> I assume that if I went for the DHA590 then at a later date I could still use an external DAC with it if thats the way I decided to go?
> Has anyone used this amp with the Abyss 1266TC?


Yes, you have the rca or xlr ins which will allow you to connect an external dac.
I have chosen the “all in one” path with the dha380 because I need a clean set up on my desktop. Maybe one day I will move it to my main set up im a different room and try different dac but honestly I don’t feel that need now


----------



## Womaz

aleniola76 said:


> Yes, you have the rca or xlr ins which will allow you to connect an external dac.
> I have chosen the “all in one” path with the dha380 because I need a clean set up on my desktop. Maybe one day I will move it to my main set up im a different room and try different dac but honestly I don’t feel that need now


I am the same it will be used in my HP set up and is separate from my main Hifi downstairs. 
I would love to go for the Nimbus ......but the additional need for a DAC would push the cost beyond me I think.


----------



## Womaz

Again sorry if this is a stupid question. If I go for the DHA 590 all in one solution it is only £600 more expensive than the non DAC unit.
Is it exactly the same components as the non DAC version. If so then i could go for this and then maybe look for an external DAC further down the line if I wanted to try that.


----------



## aleniola76

Womaz said:


> I am the same it will be used in my HP set up and is separate from my main Hifi downstairs.
> I would love to go for the Nimbus ......but the additional need for a DAC would push the cost beyond me I think.


I would go with the 590, enjoy the internal dac and then eventually try an external one. But I would bet that you’ll be happy with the internal dac for a long while 😎


----------



## musicus

how about going dac-less and get something like the topping d70 or the new d90se?


----------



## Benno1988

People still having issues with the Pro models volume control? Or people with are are pretty content?


----------



## barbz127

Could anyone comment on how the amp stage of the v590 compares to the sparkos aries?
Thankyou


----------



## project86

The Aries sounds closer to the tuning on the Niimbus amps. That is to say, a bit more resolving, neutral, and precise. V550/V590 by comparison feels slightly more tilted towards the warmer/smoother side - not that it is significantly colored by any means though... it's just a hint of flavor. 

I'd choose the Vio model(s) if I was more focused on drive, dynamics, and tonal richness. I would pick the Aries if my priorities included imaging precision, treble articulation, and dynamic contrast. 

That said, both choices are still quite good in all other areas aside from those strengths. So it's not like either is a dud.


----------



## vkenz

project86 said:


> The Aries sounds closer to the tuning on the Niimbus amps. That is to say, a bit more resolving, neutral, and precise. V550/V590 by comparison feels slightly more tilted towards the warmer/smoother side - not that it is significantly colored by any means though... it's just a hint of flavor.
> 
> I'd choose the Vio model(s) if I was more focused on drive, dynamics, and tonal richness. I would pick the Aries if my priorities included imaging precision, treble articulation, and dynamic contrast.
> 
> That said, both choices are still quite good in all other areas aside from those strengths. So it's not like either is a dud.


I wondering if you had the chance to compare the V590 and the Bartok?  Because to my ears they seem to sound so similar.


----------



## project86

My experience with the Bartok is extremely limited, so I don't really have an opinion on it. Seems like a nice piece of kit and that's about as far as I can go.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Violectric is launching new entry level DHA V 226. Good to see Fried is actively expanding the Violectric product range.

https://duneblue.com/portfolio_page/iear-show-2021-preview-dune-blue/


----------



## Fegefeuer

You should make an 22x thread if you're in the mood.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> You should make an 22x thread if you're in the mood.


Will let you take the lead my friend


----------



## 524744

I have had the 590 Mk2 Pro for over a week and my initial impression is that the amplifier section of the 590 Mk2 Pro performs better than that of my Chord Hugo TT2. I noted that the extension to the high and low ends are better using the 590 Mk2 as preamp. However, the DAC section of the 590 Mk2 is inferior to that of the TT2/MScaler combination as far as overall sound is concerned.
Cable between the Transport and 590 Mk2 is the AES/EBU Apogee Wyde Eye while that from Transport to TT2/MScaler to 590 Mk2 are Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 coaxial cables and Platinum Eclipse 8 XLR interconnects.
My present setup is Simaudio Transport 260T to Chord TT2/MScaler (DAC) to 590 Mk2 Pro (Pre & Headphone Amp) to Chord TTOBY poweramp and finally the Dynaudio Special 40 speakers. The high frequencies are sweet and bass is taut and focussed. The mid range is the strength of the system. Sound is 3-dimensional and sound stage is precise with air and black space between instruments. 
Headphone used is Sennheiser HD800S using Nordost Heimdall 2 cable with balance input. SQ from the 590 Mk2 Pro is musical with no trace of harshness. I am able to listen continually for hours without feeling fatigue. 
Overall, the Violectric HDA590 Mk2 Pro I reckon is one piece of equipment truly worth it’s price for the exceptional SQ and build quality.


----------



## someyoungguy

AudioPowerHead said:


> Violectric is launching new entry level DHA V 226. Good to see Fried is actively expanding the Violectric product range.
> 
> https://duneblue.com/portfolio_page/iear-show-2021-preview-dune-blue/


I was just perusing the Violectric site looking for info on the 380 mk II and saw that too. This looks great - a cheaper 380! I have the Chronos and it's really impressed me; so much so I'm selling my Plenue S and probably will also sell a recently-acquired Plenue L. I'm a huge Plenue fan, but the Chronos just has this clarity, naturalness and ease of listening that's really quite something. My favorite dongle so far out of PEE51 and Questyle M12 (although each is great in it's own right). 

Interesting to see they're using the same DAC chip in the V226 as the Chronos. That and the more entry-level friendly price has my attention. I'll ask around and see when it will be available here in China.


----------



## vkenz

Womaz said:


> Again sorry if this is a stupid question. If I go for the DHA 590 all in one solution it is only £600 more expensive than the non DAC unit.
> Is it exactly the same components as the non DAC version. If so then i could go for this and then maybe look for an external DAC further down the line if I wanted to try that.


Go with the DAC.  The V590 already sounds like a Bartok. Both have great dynamics.


----------



## Womaz

vkenz said:


> Go with the DAC.  The V590 already sounds like a Bartok. Both have great dynamics.


Well I have the Niimbus US5 Pro on order now.........so we will see what I think.


----------



## vkenz

Womaz said:


> Well I have the Niimbus US5 Pro on order now.........so we will see what I think.


They are tuned differently I think as I have auditioned them before.  The V590 is like the KG CFA3, Bartok more euphonic and body and the US4 Pro sounds like a KG Dynahi, tight and speedy bass and less body.  Both are great actually.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Didn't you get an interim DAC, Womaz?



AudioPowerHead said:


> Will let you take the lead my friend









The V226's amp should be the equal of the V280.



someyoungguy said:


> I was just perusing the Violectric site looking for info on the 380 mk II and saw that too. This looks great - a cheaper 380! I have the Chronos and it's really impressed me; so much so I'm selling my Plenue S and probably will also sell a recently-acquired Plenue L. I'm a huge Plenue fan, but the Chronos just has this clarity, naturalness and ease of listening that's really quite something. My favorite dongle so far out of PEE51 and Questyle M12 (although each is great in it's own right).
> 
> Interesting to see they're using the same DAC chip in the V226 as the Chronos. That and the more entry-level friendly price has my attention. I'll ask around and see when it will be available here in China.



Interesting. Haven't heard the Chronos DAC yet. V226 is out in Germany now. Should be out in China soon.


----------



## Womaz

Fegefeuer said:


> Didn't you get an interim DAC, Womaz?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will have the Qutest to try . Not sure if it will be a temporary or permanent solution……or it may even be sent back.
it sounds very good with my current burson amp


----------



## bythewaybay

Do the v550/v590 have too much power for anything less power hungry than, say, a Susvara/HE6?
The hardest headphone I have to drive is the Hifiman Arya, and the others are Z1R and a bunch of IEMs.
I wonder if I'm better off going with something which will give me more room to adjust volume with a knob, such as a Questyle product.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can easily adjust volume control range via the pregain settings.


----------



## vkenz (Nov 20, 2021)

bythewaybay said:


> Do the v550/v590 have too much power for anything less power hungry than, say, a Susvara/HE6?
> The hardest headphone I have to drive is the Hifiman Arya, and the others are Z1R and a bunch of IEMs.
> I wonder if I'm better off going with something which will give me more room to adjust volume with a knob, such as a Questyle product.


The volume control of Violectric is absolutely beautiful you can max it out without any distortion or imbalance and use it's with pre-gain selector if you need more power.  The volume control is actually one of the many tenets of the brand.   To me, the volume knob size is has the right size, tension and smoothness of gain and none of those clickiness that is common other amps.  I have tried many amps but to me, my golden standard for how an amp volume knob should be made is from Violectric.  I have tried my andromeda last time with my V590 with the lowest gain.  And also used it for burning in for my Fiio FD5 and FD7.  One thing the V590 lack is a network streamer/bluetooth.  I hope they add it in future release.  It will be the ultimate all-in-one desktop solution.


----------



## Terriero

vkenz said:


> The volume control of Violectric is absolutely beautiful you can max it out without any distortion or imbalance and use it's with pre-gain selector if you need more power.  The volume control is actually one of the many tenets of the brand.   To me, the volume knob size is has the right size, tension and smoothness of gain and none of those clickiness that is common other amps.  I have tried many amps but to me, my golden standard for how an amp volume knob should be made is from Violectric.  I have tried my andromeda last time with my V590 with the lowest gain.  And also used it for burning in for my Fiio FD5 and FD7.  One thing the V590 lack is a network streamer/bluetooth.  I hope they add it in future release.  It will be the ultimate all-in-one desktop solution.


Do you have the pro or the standart version? Some people here suffered noises when changing volume with the Pro edition.


----------



## project86

Not specifically V590 related but since this has become a great place to discuss all things Violectric/Lake People/Niimbus...

Black Friday promo coming up for a few models. The new (and very intriguing!) V226 will be $300 off, the V340 $400 off, and the little Chronos will be $199 (down from $249). Great deals for anyone looking at those models or considering an all-in-one DAC/headphone amp in general.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi if I put +18 and +6 on the gain would it be +24 Db on the gain, or still be +18 db gain


----------



## Fegefeuer

There's no extra gain on the v590 unless you connect a Super Nintendo Controller via XLR and press ABACABB while it powers up. That way you activate the extra gain feature that Fried hid from the manual so people don't fry their headphones because they want to brag about 8'o clock listening position with a HE-6.



Spoiler: Works only if...



i'm kidding, don't do it. +18 is max


----------



## Sound Eq

Fegefeuer said:


> There's no extra gain on the v590 unless you connect a Super Nintendo Controller via XLR and press ABACABB while it powers up. That way you activate the extra gain feature that Fried hid from the manual so people don't fry their headphones because they want to brag about 8'o clock listening position with a HE-6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Delta9K

Sound Eq said:


> hi if I put +18 and +6 on the gain would it be +24 Db on the gain, or still be +18 db gain


Not as inspirational as the previous response to your question but, from Page 18 of the User manual:
"The PRE-GAIN settings +6 / +12 / +18 dB to achieve more gain. Other than the above settings are not useful but harmless."


----------



## Sound Eq (Nov 26, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Not as inspirational as the previous response to your question but, from Page 18 of the User manual:
> "The PRE-GAIN settings +6 / +12 / +18 dB to achieve more gain. Other than the above settings are not useful but harmless."


how bout

+18+6-6-18   

that is the best setting for my easy to drive susvara


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 1, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


> There's no extra gain on the v590 unless you connect a Super Nintendo Controller via XLR and press ABACABB while it powers up. That way you activate the extra gain feature that Fried hid from the manual so people don't fry their headphones because they want to brag about 8'o clock listening position with a HE-6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well my friend I own the susvara and definitely when I engage +18 and +6 there is more volume than just +18, so maybe its worth u test again and forget the manual, I will be very surprised if you can not hear the difference, its not a big change in volume but its there and an audible increase


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, my friend. The context of extra gain was about 24db, not about any kind of gain.


----------



## Sound Eq

Fegefeuer said:


> Well, my friend. The context of extra gain was about 24db, not about any kind of gain.


well  but u said there was no extra secret gain doing that 

But I think you agree there is extra gain if u engage 18+ and 6+


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's just that any other gain was never disputed. And yes, of course it works. I use with the Susvara too.


----------



## bluenight (May 19, 2022)

Tip. An DC blocker could be a good sound enhancer for Lake People/Violectric/Niimbus amps that rely heavily on toroidal transformers. According to iFi all wall outlets have some DC leakage more or less. 

My first listening experience on entry level LP amp. 

I bought one dc blocker and connected it to my audioquest niagara 1000 power conditioner. From my Lake People RS02 that have an toriodal transformer it have improved the sound even though i never had any hum.

I hear more detail. Details i havent heard before and details i have before more clearly. It heard it was easier to follow the rhythm and sounds more calm and sorted. Vocals and lyrics i can hear more clearly. I think it open up the sound beacuse more clear details and left- right stuff. I think the mechanic/metalic sound that your listening to an amp has been more removed, someone mentioned better timbre. Its not night and day but subtle still a hifi bargain imo. Just listened for some hours.

In my setup i could not hear any restrictions in dynamics. Its rated at Maximum current rating10 A. Continuous current rating	7A. Honestly it dosent sound much now that i read yulong DA1 can deliver 15A transient current maybe played at max volume then? I dont know how it will be on higher up the chain in LP/V amps. Could be worth a try if you can send it back if your not happy with results. Also iFi is not the only one that makes DC Blockers i havent checked others specs. 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/


----------



## LeMoviedave

Fegefeuer said:


> There's no extra gain on the v590 unless you connect a Super Nintendo Controller via XLR and press ABACABB while it powers up. That way you activate the extra gain feature that Fried hid from the manual so people don't fry their headphones because they want to brag about 8'o clock listening position with a HE-6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Moses almighty man!  The Super Nintendo controller didn't even have a "C" button! It is buttfaces like you who give us anal retentive gamers a bad name.  I see you spreading any more misinformation, you won't need to enter the blood code anymore.


----------



## Fegefeuer

My Sega childhood has been exposed.


----------



## LeMoviedave (Dec 6, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


> My Sega childhood has been exposed.


C button on the SNES.  What's next?  Turbo switches on the 2600?  Zip discs for the PS4?  It is always nice to see the Mortal Kombat blood code again.


----------



## Njychen

Does anyone have any experience driving the TC and/or Susvara using V590 vs Ferrum Hypsos and Oor?  Would like to know how they compare.

Thanks.


----------



## ajreynol

+1 on the insights with a TC


----------



## vonBaron

Anyone tested V590 V2 vs V1?


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V590-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p202322694

They have a demo unit of the V590 v2 in stock, I can't see the price though.

Anyone looking for one, I am sure the discount is good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

.


----------



## starouterspace (Feb 2, 2022)

Question: Does the v590/v550 Pro have clicks or stops in its attenuator?


----------



## sqz0914

Chilli Padi said:


> I have had the 590 Mk2 Pro for over a week and my initial impression is that the amplifier section of the 590 Mk2 Pro performs better than that of my Chord Hugo TT2. I noted that the extension to the high and low ends are better using the 590 Mk2 as preamp. However, the DAC section of the 590 Mk2 is inferior to that of the TT2/MScaler combination as far as overall sound is concerned.
> Cable between the Transport and 590 Mk2 is the AES/EBU Apogee Wyde Eye while that from Transport to TT2/MScaler to 590 Mk2 are Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 coaxial cables and Platinum Eclipse 8 XLR interconnects.
> My present setup is Simaudio Transport 260T to Chord TT2/MScaler (DAC) to 590 Mk2 Pro (Pre & Headphone Amp) to Chord TTOBY poweramp and finally the Dynaudio Special 40 speakers. The high frequencies are sweet and bass is taut and focussed. The mid range is the strength of the system. Sound is 3-dimensional and sound stage is precise with air and black space between instruments.
> Headphone used is Sennheiser HD800S using Nordost Heimdall 2 cable with balance input. SQ from the 590 Mk2 Pro is musical with no trace of harshness. I am able to listen continually for hours without feeling fatigue.
> Overall, the Violectric HDA590 Mk2 Pro I reckon is one piece of equipment truly worth it’s price for the exceptional SQ and build quality.


Yes, I agree. I just received 590 II Pro and I found out its DAC is not quite good. When using it with LCD-5, the sound seems to be blurry without enough dynamics. I have ordered a Chord Qutest to see whether it could bring some improvement.


----------



## ArthurPower

starouterspace said:


> Question: Does the v590/v550 Pro have clicks or stops in its attenuator?


No, they do not. The attenuators are smooth on both models standard and Pro.


----------



## Mr Geithain

sqz0914 said:


> Yes, I agree. I just received 590 II Pro and I found out its DAC is not quite good. When using it with LCD-5, the sound seems to be blurry without enough dynamics. I have ordered a Chord Qutest to see whether it could bring some improvement.


I also own a v590 Pro (but it’s the older version with the AKM chip). Im also thinking of bying an Chord Qutest as an external DAC, could you please share your experience and sound-impressions here? Are there any other Qutest-User with the v590? would it be an upgrade? thanks a lot!


----------



## Dim666

Is there a solution to no longer hear the crackling sound when turning the volume knob ?


----------



## vcoheda

@Dim666 - what do you think about the amp section of the V590 compared to the HA-2SF. is one clearly better than the other or both good but different sounds due to solid state versus tube.


----------



## Dim666

Both are excellent. I prefer the amp of Violetric for the th900 and for the Utopia HA2SF is the big winner. Now I haven't done a serious comparison for the LCD-XC yet.
I love this two system. Regarding the Auris here are the tubes I currently use : 1 telefunken 802 s with 4x  jj e99 gold pin


----------



## Dim666




----------



## vcoheda

thanks. i have been looking at the violectric v590 since i am considering a one-box solution - so something that offers both a high-level dac and headphone amp.


----------



## vonBaron

So please look something else.


----------



## Dim666

vonBaron said:


> So please look something else.


Why do you say that ? Just for my information


----------



## vonBaron

DAC in V590 is medicore.


----------



## Fatdoi

the extra cost of V590 over V550.... maybe a similar priced Topping D90 sounds better? not that i say to buy that DAC, just a general comparison


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, that what i was thinking, D90 + V590 should be better than V590.


----------



## sqz0914

Mr Geithain said:


> I also own a v590 Pro (but it’s the older version with the AKM chip). Im also thinking of bying an Chord Qutest as an external DAC, could you please share your experience and sound-impressions here? Are there any other Qutest-User with the v590? would it be an upgrade? thanks a lot!


I am sorry I eventually give up my V590 Pro and put it on sale. I end up with Qutest + AMP-23R because I also have a Susvara which is difficult to drive. I hope others who have the Qutest and V590 Pro combo can share the impression here.


----------



## vcoheda (Feb 15, 2022)

not so easy to find a one-box solution that is "affordable", so not bartok.

i really like my yamaha + auris but they take up a lot of space and i have no use for the player portion of the yamaha since all my listening is done via my computer.


----------



## wearestars

Currently I'm using a roon bridge device (Waversa Wstreamer), usb output to my v590pro, and the usb cable is the stock cable. The player software is roon. 

But with this setup I can only play 44.1k music file, for higher resolution files like flac 96k, DSD64 etc. it just play the file very quickly, like one second, no error, no sound output. I change to another roon bridge device from other manufacter, it has same problem. I believe they are all using Linux system. 

Tried MacBook Pro directly connect to v590, same use roon, everything works.
Tried WStreamer connect to Teac UD505, everything works too.

So the conlusion is v590 doesn't support the Linux system player very well. Any one experience same problem? How can this be fixed? Thanks a lot!


----------



## Fatdoi

sqz0914 said:


> I am sorry I eventually give up my V590 Pro and put it on sale. I end up with Qutest + AMP-23R because I also have a Susvara which is difficult to drive. I hope others who have the Qutest and V590 Pro combo can share the impression here.


on paper, V590 should have similar power to Enleum, 6.4W @ 50Ω v 4W @ 60Ω..... so can I ask how come V590 cannot drive your Sus compared to 23R?


----------



## sqz0914

Fatdoi said:


> on paper, V590 should have similar power to Enleum, 6.4W @ 50Ω v 4W @ 60Ω..... so can I ask how come V590 cannot drive your Sus compared to 23R?


Maybe it is more like a style difference. Susvara on V590 is soft but on 23R is impactful.


----------



## smutnyjoe

sqz0914 said:


> Maybe it is more like a style difference. Susvara on V590 is soft but on 23R is impactful.


Have you tried Qutest + V590 (as an amp only)?


----------



## sqz0914

smutnyjoe said:


> Have you tried Qutest + V590 (as an amp only)?


Nope. I didn't get a chance to do that.


----------



## gonzfi

Would it be worth adding a Ferrum Hypsos to my v590? Has anyone tried it as a combo?


----------



## Fatdoi

gonzfi said:


> Would it be worth adding a Ferrum Hypsos to my v590? Has anyone tried it as a combo?


how can you bypass V590's internal power supply to run an external one? or are you referring to something like PS Audio power regenerator?


----------



## vonBaron

gonzfi said:


> Would it be worth adding a Ferrum Hypsos to my v590? Has anyone tried it as a combo?


no


----------



## AnimalOnDrums (Mar 14, 2022)

For anyone that is interested I have a BNIB original V590 pro.  After liking the V590 pro so much, I decided to get another one for a second set up that ended up not happening.  I kept it around thinking I would get the second set up going, but I never did because all my other gear got destroyed.  I am going to post it for sale in a little bit but wanted to give the people in this thread the heads up first.  I have no heard the V2 version with the new DAC so I cannot comment on how they compare, but my previous comments in this thread show how much I love this unit with the AKM Dac.  I think it sounds a bit smoother and more musical compared to the Benchmark DAC3 and HPA4 combo.  Anyway, please PM me if interested with an offer. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/vioelectric-v590-dac-amp-original-version-with-akm-dac.22038/ .  Thanks


----------



## jieranli

Curious to know if the DAC section of v590 has any noticeable latency connected through USB to a computer. I'd like to have it used as an hifi device and also a general-purpose device to declutter my desk.


----------



## Fatdoi

jieranli said:


> Curious to know if the DAC section of v590 has any noticeable latency connected through USB to a computer. I'd like to have it used as an hifi device and also a general-purpose device to declutter my desk.


so far the reviews on the V590v2 ESS dac aren't as good compared to AKM V590


----------



## jieranli

Fatdoi said:


> so far the reviews on the V590v2 ESS dac aren't as good compared to AKM V590


Like the dac itself or the latency?


----------



## Fatdoi

jieranli said:


> Like the dac itself or the latency?


they only talked about the dac sound quality


----------



## jieranli

Ahh ok, would you have a link to said review? I was having trouble finding reviews for the version 2 of V590.


----------



## AnimalOnDrums

jieranli said:


> Curious to know if the DAC section of v590 has any noticeable latency connected through USB to a computer. I'd like to have it used as an hifi device and also a general-purpose device to declutter my desk.


With the correct/updated drivers (if you are using Windows) you should not have any issues with latency.  I have not used it with a Windows machine though. I just hooked up my iMac to my V590 using a regular USB cable and I did not notice any latency while watching some YouTube videos and music videos.  I have been watching stuff for a few hours already with no issues.   It works just as well with my 2017 MacBook Pro.


----------



## Fatdoi

jieranli said:


> Ahh ok, would you have a link to said review? I was having trouble finding reviews for the version 2 of V590.


goto page 36


----------



## Njychen

Has anyone tried replacing the fuse with a tuning fuse?


----------



## GoodRevrnd

So seems AKM has resumed production, but deprecated all past chips for what for the most part appear to be incremental enhancements other than maybe their totl.  Anyway, hopes for a v3 soon?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No AKM v3.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Greetings to all! Does anyone use such an adapter with DHA V590 (see the attached photo)?





The main purpose of using this adapter with speaker outputs is to increase the functionality of the device. It is possible to use two headphones without removing them from the plugs. You can set your own gain level for each of the headphones. If someone has used such an adapter, please share your impressions. Do the headphones from the front and rear output sound the same?

Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Koren

Violectric dha v590 mk2 How can I tell if it is a pro or basic package, so it has a 256 step relay or alps?


----------



## Fegefeuer

P in the serial number and noticable while changing volume


----------



## Koren

Fegefeuer said:


> P in the serial number and noticable while changing volume


"noticable while changing volume" what do i have to experience here?Where is the serial number?


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Fegefeuer said:


> No AKM v3.


Nuts.  This is confirmed?


----------



## Koren

Where can I check in software under windows 11 what kind of amanero usb is on my dha v590 mk2 device? I want to add the best to it so that it sounds the best under windows 11!! Can you possibly provide a link? What is your experience with drivers?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just install the latest, it has no effect on the sound.

What is your source?


----------



## Koren

Fegefeuer said:


> Csak telepítse a legújabbat, nincs hatással a hangra.
> 
> mi a forrásod?


I have now installed the 1.067. The sound is good again. https://amanero.com/drivers.htm The sound was bad before, with the plain windows driver.. there was no space, everything was in my head.. now the sound is open again with the amanero driver. Windows 11 PC is my source at the moment, but a streamer is coming slowly. I will be curious if there will be an improvement in sound quality or not. https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/stream-box-s2-ultra/


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can improve your PC's USB out with a dedicated PCIe card that doesn't share any other devices with the DAC. Some cards even have one dedicated controller per USB port.


----------



## Koren

does anyone know what the implementation of the violactric dha v590 mk2 dac is like?  does it buffer and reclock all inputs (coax, opt, usb) or just the usb input?


----------



## Fegefeuer

All Inputs.


----------



## vonBaron

Koren said:


> does anyone know what the implementation of the violactric dha v590 mk2 dac is like?  does it buffer and reclock all inputs (coax, opt, usb) or just the usb input?


The DAC itself is pretty weak.


----------



## Koren

vonBaron said:


> Maga a DAC elég gyenge.


?


----------



## Koren

Fegefeuer said:


> All Inputs.


are the dha v590 mk1 and v590 mk2 designed with buffer and reclock on all digital inputs?  (coax, opt, USB, aes)?  otherwise, in this case it doesn't matter what source is connected to the dha v590 mk2 (pc, streamer, TV) because everything is done by the Violectric dac, so the sound quality depends only on the Violectric device.


----------



## drummerdimitri

I am looking to purchase one of these units, however they seem to have discontinued the AKM version and replaced it with an ESS chip instead.

Can anyone comment on the sonic difference between the two? I prefer having the 4.4 mm Pentaconn instead of the dual 6.35mm jacks on the front of the unit but it seems many prefer the older dac chip for some reason.

Also, the resampling button seems to have disappeared from the front panel but can it still be adjusted via the remote control? 
​


----------



## Koren

ess chip has better performance.


----------



## drummerdimitri

Koren said:


> ess chip has better performance.


We all know better spec sheets does not necessarily translate into better sonic qualities so I'm going to need more than that to make a purchasing decision.


----------



## DMITRIY R

drummerdimitri said:


> We all know better spec sheets does not necessarily translate into better sonic qualities so I'm going to need more than that to make a purchasing decision.


ESS is slightly brighter at the upper end than AKM. I didn't hear any other differences between them.


----------



## DMITRIY R

drummerdimitri said:


> Also, the resampling button seems to have disappeared from the front panel but can it still be adjusted via the remote control?


This feature is only available on AKM


----------



## Koren

drummerdimitri said:


> We all know better spec sheets does not necessarily translate into better sonic qualities so I'm going to need more than that to make a purchasing decision.


the 2x 9026pro chip is more transparent, more detailed, clearer and more balanced.it is unnecessary to face the fact that if something is measured and it has less distortion and noise than another version or another device, then when listening afterwards, the sound of a better measured device will never be noisier or more distorted than a worse one.  what says otherwise is the usual hifi placebo or untrained ear.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Analog output stage matters. If you haven't compared both versions why bother posting?


----------



## project86

He's right everyone, time to sell all my gear and get whatever new Topping/SMSL widget comes out next week.


----------



## drummerdimitri

Does anyone know if this unit has galvanic isolation on the USB input?


----------



## PullMeUnder

I've just purchased v590 v2 (non Pro), and the volume pot is very stiff and moves with a scratchy metallic noise when turning it by hand. The motorised control can only move it 25% before it gets stuck. I assume I got a faulty unit? I'm very surprised to see an issue like that on an expensive device.


----------



## drummerdimitri (Sep 22, 2022)

I have received my V590 mk2 PRO yesterday and have been listening quite extensively since then.

I've noticed that the unit doesn't sound as dynamic as I would like. The bass lacks impact and speed and transients seem a bit slow.

Should I give it time to break in or will these characteristics not change with further listening?

Will have to return the unit if that's the case as I prefer the sound signature of my Questyle CMA400i as it sounds smoother with more bass quantity and speed.


----------



## vonBaron (Sep 22, 2022)

Give it time, my Niimbus sound same before burning period. 100h+ should do the job.


----------



## drummerdimitri

vonBaron said:


> Give it time, my Niimbus sound same before burning period. 100h+ should do the job.


Good to know thanks!

Will give it some time then and enjoy the music in the meantime.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Source? Transport? headphones used?


----------



## smutnyjoe

Compared to, e.g., TT2, some lower frequencies sound a bit slower on v550, and transients are just a little slower. But there is an impact. For me, it's a positive difference  I think as well that it will achieve its final performance after 100-200h


----------



## drummerdimitri

Fegefeuer said:


> Source? Transport? headphones used?


Direct USB connection to desktop pc with Audeze LCD-4z and +6 dB input gain on the headphones.


----------



## Koren

drummerdimitri said:


> I have received my V590 mk2 PRO yesterday and have been listening quite extensively since then.
> 
> I've noticed that the unit doesn't sound as dynamic as I would like. The bass lacks impact and speed and transients seem a bit slow.
> 
> ...


My problem, too, is that my v590 mk2 doesn't have much punch, dynamics, or power. lcd 2 classic with headphones.

https://kennerton.org/shop/clc-04/

I use this cable.

tomorrow I will try it with the basic cable of the lcd 2 classic, which has a 6.3 ending. so it becomes clear whether there is a difference between the outputs of the dha v590 mk 2 xlr vs 6.3.

I heard the lcd 2 classic headphones a while ago from a $100 schiit magni 3 amplifier with the basic headphone cable, and the punch and effect was much more enjoyable.


----------



## Koren (Sep 23, 2022)

drummerdimitri said:


> I have received my V590 mk2 PRO yesterday and have been listening quite extensively since then.
> 
> I've noticed that the unit doesn't sound as dynamic as I would like. The bass lacks impact and speed and transients seem a bit slow.
> 
> ...


otherwise, why do you use the +6 pre-amplification?  I have 0db, basically, and the LCD 2 Classic does not last more than 12 hours and is more difficult to drive than the 4z, which is 15ohm 98 db.


----------



## drummerdimitri

Koren said:


> otherwise, why do you use the +6 pre-amplification?  I have 0db, basically, and the LCD 2 Classic does not last more than 12 hours and is more difficult to drive than the 4z, which is 15ohm 98 db.



Because I Iisten to music at over 100 dB regularly and I need to set the pre-gain up to get some headroom.

On another note, the amp is starting to sound much better already. Not sure if it is breaking in or my brain is, either way it is sounding like a keeper!


----------



## Koren (Sep 23, 2022)

drummerdimitri said:


> Because I Iisten to music at over 100 dB regularly and I need to set the pre-gain up to get some headroom.
> 
> On another note, the amp is starting to sound much better already. Not sure if it is breaking in or my brain is, either way it is sounding like a keeper!


and why was there 6 db?  did you try 0db too?  or 18?  what difference did you hear?  How far do you turn the volume up to 4z with +6db?


----------



## drummerdimitri

Koren said:


> and why was there 6 db?  did you try 0db too?  or 12?  what difference did you hear?  How far do you turn the volume up to 4z with +6db?


I tried all settings and found +6dB the most ideal one for my listening levels as the volume knob stayed around noon. No sonic difference just more power the higher the pre gain.


----------



## Koren

drummerdimitri said:


> I tried all settings and found +6dB the most ideal one for my listening levels as the volume knob stayed around noon. No sonic difference just more power the higher the pre gain.


I understand.  do you use the 4z with the basic unbalanced 6.3 cable?  https://www.audeze.com/collections/accessories/products/lcd-balanced-cable if the preamplifier is in the basic position, i.e. everything is down and 0db, how long did you have to turn up the volume?


----------



## drummerdimitri

Koren said:


> I understand.  do you use the 4z with the basic unbalanced 6.3 cable?  https://www.audeze.com/collections/accessories/products/lcd-balanced-cable if the preamplifier is in the basic position, i.e. everything is down and 0db, how long did you have to turn up the volume?


No, I use a custom made PLUSSOUND X16 gold platted silver balanced cable with a 4 pin XLR termination.

At 0dB, I was maxing almost maxing out the volume control. Remember that this amp "only" has 2W into 16Ω (my headphones are 15Ω) but 6.4W into 50Ω so 0 dB of gain just wont cut it in my case.


----------



## Koren

drummerdimitri said:


> No, I use a custom made PLUSSOUND X16 gold platted silver balanced cable with a 4 pin XLR termination.
> 
> At 0dB, I was maxing almost maxing out the volume control. Remember that this amp "only" has 2W into 16Ω (my headphones are 15Ω) but 6.4W into 50Ω so 0 dB of gain just wont cut it in my case.


don't you know that the v590 mk2 gives the same amount on both balanced and unbalanced output?  Then I can only recommend that you try out the 6.3mm basic cable of the headphones to see if you get the punch and dynamics that you are missing.  it is not inconceivable that the v590mk2 sounds different in unbalanced mode, just as the 4z also sounds different in unbalanced mode.  if you have tried it, please describe your experience, both in terms of sound and power.


----------



## ddlo (Sep 24, 2022)

I'm currently using topping a90/d90 stack and is looking to replace the topping stack with a quality dac/amp combo.

I'm feeding the dac directly from desktop and also use the preamp (xlr) to my genelec 8010a as computer speaker.  I mostly listen to streaming services (tidal, spotify, etc) on a variety of pop songs including acg..  I wonder if it's a good idea to consider v590 pro mk2?

Also wish to know if the amp will drive multiple cans connected to the phone out simultaneously like a90? And is it still stable for low ohm iem too (e.g. empire ears, 64 audio)? headphones that i regularly used now are sus, dca expanse/stealth, ath-l5000 and utopia.

Thank you!


----------



## drummerdimitri (Sep 26, 2022)

Does anyone know where to get the windows driver for the mk2 version of this unit?

It seems that in the provided manual they linked the original AKM DAC chip's drivers and not the new ESS one.

Edit: Nevermind, found it here https://www.cma.audio/en/downloads/drivers


----------



## baneand

hey guys just checking if someone tried combination of Chord Qutest + 380/590 if it has noticable difference than built in dac


----------



## Koren

Is there a difference in performance or sound quality between the 6.3mm and xlr headphone outputs of the dha v590 mk2 device?  do you have experience?


----------



## Fegefeuer

4-PIN XLR is employed by 4 amps, SE by 2.
4-PIN XLR makes for a tighter, focussed experience with sharpest transients and impact and imaging, staging is more grand, sharp and on point. SE has less grip overall for a slightly softer, more relaxed experience.


----------



## project86

Agree with the above post. I find that for certain less demanding headphones, it really doesn't make a huge difference. But when the headphones are more demanding and/or just fairly resolving, you'll want to go with balanced if at all possible. 

My old Grado PS500 is really the main headphone where I actually prefer the single-ended output. It doesn't need the extra juice, and it actually benefits a little from the very slightly softer treble. Plus it is hard wired so a little more complicated if I did want to go balanced.


----------



## Koren (Oct 4, 2022)

Fegefeuer said:


> 4-PIN XLR is employed by 4 amps, SE by 2.
> 4-PIN XLR makes for a tighter, focussed experience with sharpest transients and impact and imaging, staging is more grand, sharp and on point. SE has less grip overall for a slightly softer, more relaxed experience.


Is 4.4BAL the same as 4pin xlr?  or is there a difference between them?

thank you  and what do you think about the pre amp setup?  0 db (off) vs +6 db vs +18 db.  now I would only be interested in maximizing technical knowledge in the case of the dha v590 mk2.  let's assume that both +6 and +18 will drive our headphones.  is it worth the +18 in every case to get the maximum?  can impact, staging, transients be better compared to +6db?  or is it just about volume? (preamp)


----------



## drummerdimitri (Oct 25, 2022)

After many hours of listening, I'm starting to wonder if the Niimbus US5 pro would have been the better choice for my headphones (LCD-4z) since although the V590 PRO mk2 sounds great, I am finding that I would rather sacrifice a bit of added warmth for more dynamic slam/impact and a greater focus on midrange especially with vocals as my LCD-4z are already dark sounding, I am finding the pairing a bit too laid back.

I still have the opportunity to replace the unit with a Niimbus + cash so I am wondering if it would make sense given my musical preferences.


----------



## project86

It's tough to say but that might be worth exploring since it sounds like you are on the fence. 

It's always hard to pinpoint just how someone will react to a given component, based on their preferences and system etc. But when you talk about beautiful midrange and powerful dynamic impact, the Niimbus does those amazingly well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

He'll also need a DAC worthy of it.


----------



## vonBaron

Stay with V590 and buy some good DAC, it will be a loot better.


----------



## Koren

Fegefeuer said:


> 4-PIN XLR is employed by 4 amps, SE by 2.
> 4-PIN XLR makes for a tighter, focussed experience with sharpest transients and impact and imaging, staging is more grand, sharp and on point. SE has less grip overall for a slightly softer, more relaxed experience.


Is 4.4BAL the same as 4pin xlr? or is there a difference between them?

thank you and what do you think about the pre amp setup? 0 db (off) vs +6 db vs +18 db. now I would only be interested in maximizing technical knowledge in the case of the dha v590 mk2. let's assume that both +6 and +18 will drive our headphones. is it worth the +18 in every case to get the maximum? can impact, staging, transients be better compared to +6db? or is it just about volume? (preamp)


----------



## Fegefeuer

Which headphones are you using?


----------



## Koren

Fegefeuer said:


> Which headphones are you using?


I'm really only interested in whether 4.4mm and xlr are the same?  so 4amp etc etc.  or is there a difference between them?


----------



## Fegefeuer

4.4mm is balanced too. My question was pointing towards gain


----------



## project86

Well when Niimbus moved from the US4+ to the US5Pro version, the main change was the addition of the 4.4mm jack. And that was a simple add-on which tapped into the same signal that would be going out the 4-pin XLR jack. I was even told my US4+ could be easily retrofitted if I was interested (but I wasn't). 

I wouldn't be surprised if the V590 v2 was done in a similar way. Which means both the 4.4 and the XLR would be completely identical in sound.


----------



## drummerdimitri

vonBaron said:


> Stay with V590 and buy some good DAC, it will be a loot better.


Why do you suggest that since you've seemed to have upgraded to a Niimbus unit yourself?


----------



## vonBaron

Never had V590...
I only have demo unit for a few days.


----------



## drummerdimitri

vonBaron said:


> Never had V590...
> I only have demo unit for a few days.


Ok cool but why did you decide not to buy one and get a Niimbus instead?


----------



## vonBaron

Becouse wanted best available AMP.


----------



## Koren

project86 said:


> Well when Niimbus moved from the US4+ to the US5Pro version, the main change was the addition of the 4.4mm jack. And that was a simple add-on which tapped into the same signal that would be going out the 4-pin XLR jack. I was even told my US4+ could be easily retrofitted if I was interested (but I wasn't).
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the V590 v2 was done in a similar way. Which means both the 4.4 and the XLR would be completely identical in sound.


yes, it would be logical if the output was the same for 4.4 and xlr, only the connector is different, in the case of the v590 mk2.


----------



## Koren

vonBaron said:


> Becouse wanted best available AMP.


however, the 590 mk2 or nimbus are not the best amplifiers. there are models with a huge tube structure, or with transistors, which have better sound quality. for example:  https://shop.dcsaudio.com/products/lina-amplifier


----------



## J Mirra

Koren said:


> however, the 590 mk2 or nimbus are not the best amplifiers. there are models with a huge tube structure, or with transistors, which have better sound quality. for example:  https://shop.dcsaudio.com/products/lina-amplifier


I took it as best in the Violectric line.


----------



## vonBaron

DCS are overpriced as hell...


----------



## Koren

vonBaron said:


> DCS are overpriced as hell...


I think not.  us5pro is also 6000 euros, and dcs is a better, if not the best, hp amp.


----------



## roskodan

Better for what?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did you even listen to DCS amps? And if it is the best amp, how did you come to that conclusion? How did you review that amp? What was the source gear? Which headphones? How is it better? Where or in what way does it excel? Did you actually listen to the Niimbus too?

It's fine to know, acknowledge and evaluate better amps but just throwing out BETTAH isn't helping anyone. In fact it feels like a "my uncle is stronger than yours" argument.


----------



## thecrow

vonBaron said:


> DCS are overpriced as hell...





Koren said:


> I think not.  us5pro is also 6000 euros, and dcs is a better, if not the best, hp amp.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 9, 2022)

project86 said:


> It's always hard to pinpoint just how someone will react to a given component, based on their preferences and system etc. But when you talk about *beautiful midrange and powerful dynamic impact, the Niimbus does those amazingly well.*


+1


----------



## drummerdimitri (Oct 9, 2022)

I decided to try feeding my V590 mk2 PRO the DAC output from my Questyle CMA400i and I wasn't expecting such an improvement!

Turns out the internal DAC is tuned in such a way that the focus is always on the bass notes in songs as the midrange and upper registers are muted by a significant amount.

I definitely prefer the more neutral sound I hear from the Vio now so I guess the DAC is tuned a bit too warm for my taste with my headphones.

Now I'm thinking there's no way I won't get a superior DAC to feed into my amp after this discovery which kind of defeats the all in one benefits of this unit so an upgrade to the Niimbus US5 PRO is making more sense now.

Plan is to get the Niimbus and use it in conjunction with Questyle until I can afford a DAC that would match the caliber of the US5.


----------



## Koren

Have you compared the DHA V590 mk2 built-in dac sound quality with someone else's dac device?  which is connected to the analog input of the v590 mk2?  if yes, you would be interested in the exact details and the result and its exact characterization.


----------



## Koren

dha v590 mk2 be what type of headphone amp class ?


----------



## drummerdimitri

Koren said:


> dha v590 mk2 be what type of headphone amp class ?


It is my understanding that the unit operates in Class A up to around 32 mW of power and then switches to Class AB for any power draw above that figure.


----------



## DMITRIY R

drummerdimitri said:


> It is my understanding that the unit operates in Class A up to around 32 mW of power and then switches to Class AB for any power draw above that figure.


Can you tell me how safe it is to use +24 dBr of gain? I have tried and the amplifier works with this setting, but can it damage it?


----------



## smutnyjoe

I guess if they made this setting available for a user then it should be totally safe


----------



## drummerdimitri

DMITRIY R said:


> Can you tell me how safe it is to use +24 dBr of gain? I have tried and the amplifier works with this setting, but can it damage it?


It is completely safe for the amplifier as that is an option for gain setting in the user manual.

Just be careful with the volume position on the potentiometer as you may damage your headphones this way!


----------



## DMITRIY R

The manual does not say a word about the + 24 gain. The maximum gain is only +18. 
In the instructions, I found an assurance about the security of other settings that are not explicitly described in the instructions.
Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it.


----------



## Koren (Nov 6, 2022)

DMITRIY R said:


> Meg tudná mondani, mennyire biztonságos a +24 dBr erősítés használata? Kipróbáltam és az erősítő működik ezzel a beállítással, de károsíthatja?


what do you need +18db for?  +6,+12 is enough even for the most difficult-to-fold headphones.  susvara, abyss.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Koren said:


> what do you need +18db for?  +6,+12 is enough even for the most difficult-to-fold headphones.  susvara, abyss.


The bigger the gain, the more aggressive the bass. Abyss 1266 TC reacts very well to the increase of gain.


----------



## Koren

DMITRIY R said:


> The bigger the gain, the more aggressive the bass. Abyss 1266 TC reacts very well to the increase of gain.


what do you mean aggressive?


----------



## Alien HP

Koren said:


> what do you mean aggressive?


Loud?

I use +12db for all headphones. It's inconvenient to change the pre-gain setting after switching headphones. The dip switches in the back are not the easiest to operate.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Koren said:


> what do you mean aggressive?


A stronger slam at low frequencies, a greater emphasis on low frequencies and a more textured sound. The lower the gain, the calmer the headphones play.


----------



## Koren

Alien HP said:


> Loud?
> 
> I use +12db for all headphones. It's inconvenient to change the pre-gain setting after switching headphones. The dip switches in the back are not the easiest to operate.


what type of headphones do you use?


----------



## Alien HP

Koren said:


> what type of headphones do you use?


Kennerton GH50
Sennheiser HD 599
Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO
Sash Tres

The GH50 is the only headphone that doesn't need a pre-gain boost. The other ones do.


----------



## vonBaron

Alien HP said:


> Loud?
> 
> I use +12db for all headphones. It's inconvenient to change the pre-gain setting after switching headphones. The dip switches in the back are not the easiest to operate.


IMO biggest upside of Violectric amps.


----------



## vonBaron

DMITRIY R said:


> A stronger slam at low frequencies, a greater emphasis on low frequencies and a more textured sound. The lower the gain, the calmer the headphones play.


I aggre with that, lower gain gives more laid back sound, bigger gain gives more aggressive, meat sound.


----------



## Alien HP

vonBaron said:


> IMO biggest upside of Violectric amps.


Yes, but compensated by other qualities.


----------



## Koren

vonBaron said:


> IMO biggest upside of Violectric amps.


what?


----------



## Koren (Nov 6, 2022)

Alien HP said:


> Kennerton GH50
> Sennheiser HD 599
> Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO
> Sash Tres
> ...


Kennerton GH50
Sennheiser HD 599
Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO
LOL. 0db is more than enough for these, or a v590 is overkill for them.


----------



## Alien HP (Nov 6, 2022)

Koren said:


> Kennerton GH50
> Sennheiser HD 599
> Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO
> LOL. 0db is more than enough for these, or a v590 is overkill for them.


I kindly disagree. My Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO is a 80 ohm version, and it needs power. It performs much better with a +12db boost. I just tried it with a +6db boost, and I feel like the volume knob always has to be all the way up. And I believe I don't have hearing disorders. Do you own this amp and this headphone? Or is your opinion based on the specs?


----------



## drummerdimitri

DMITRIY R said:


> The manual does not say a word about the + 24 gain. The maximum gain is only +18.
> In the instructions, I found an assurance about the security of other settings that are not explicitly described in the instructions.
> Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it.


Nevermind, thought I was on the Niimbus thread.


----------



## Koren

has anyone tried plugging 2 headphones into the dha v590 mk2 at the same time?  does it work at all?  if so, could this harm the device or the headphones?  I plan to use xlr and 4.4 outputs at the same time when my other headphones arrive.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Koren said:


> has anyone tried plugging 2 headphones into the dha v590 mk2 at the same time?  does it work at all?  if so, could this harm the device or the headphones?  I plan to use xlr and 4.4 outputs at the same time when my other headphones arrive.


Yes it works. But you should not do this if different headphones are connected. If you listen to highly demanding headphones, and low-demanding headphones are connected to the second socket at this moment, then high volume can damage them.


----------



## DMITRIY R

DHA V590 mk1 has the option of selecting a digital filter . Which filter do you like more?


----------



## DMITRIY R

Are you listening to DHA v590 mk1 with HQPlayer? What settings do you use in HQPlayer? Thanks for the answers.
The settings that I use are in the photo.


----------



## project86

DMITRIY R said:


> DHA V590 mk1 has the option of selecting a digital filter . Which filter do you like more?



Do you mean the "resampling" option on the front panel? I just leave that on "best" most of the time. Manually switching to the X4 option gives more of an airy presentation. Not bright, just slightly more extended up top. Turning resampling off altogether is not usually a good idea though. It gets a little dull/slow/muddy unless you have a very high quality transport. But if you do, and you leave it on X1 or "best", it will sound just as good. So no point in using "off" as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## DMITRIY R

project86 said:


> Вы имеете в виду опцию "передискретизация" на передней панели? Я просто оставляю это на "лучшем" большую часть времени. Переключение вручную на опцию X4 дает более наглядное представление. Не яркий, просто немного более удлиненный сверху. Однако полное отключение передискретизации обычно не является хорошей идеей. Это становится немного скучным / медленным / грязным, если у вас нет очень качественного транспорта. Но если вы это сделаете, и вы оставите это на X1 или "best", это будет звучать так же хорошо. Так что, насколько я понимаю, нет смысла использовать "off".


No, I'm not talking about that. The instructions have a corresponding explanation on the choice of DAC filters. I give the photo below.


----------



## DMITRIY R

Today I decided to try Filter: Slow Roll-off / Short Delay. 
With this filter, the sound becomes warmer. The bass is stronger and more textured.
Sounds great


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## project86

Wow I guess I never read the manual, was not aware of the filter options. Will have to try them out and see if I hear much difference. It's usually a very small change in most DACs but sometimes worth it. So thanks!


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## DMITRIY R

project86 said:


> Wow I guess I never read the manual, was not aware of the filter options. Will have to try them out and see if I hear much difference. It's usually a very small change in most DACs but sometimes worth it. So thanks!


Be sure to try it, it's worth it. Come back with feedback.


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## marxzie (Nov 23, 2022)

I purchased the Violectric 590 Mk 2 a few days ago and like it so far, but I'm not sure if there might not be a problem with my device.

On higher volume, there is static noise when using DAC inputs, either optical or USB. I switched cables, settings, sources but no luck.

I also disconnected the USB cable and used optical only, but the static persists, a crackling sound. This suggests that it is not any outside electrical interference, in my opinion.

The noise appears with volumes that I would not normally listen to. However, all DACs I owned previously were dead silent on all volumes.

Can some owner tell me if this is to be expected or may this be some kind of defect?


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## marxzie

Benno1988 said:


> People still having issues with the Pro models volume control? Or people with are are pretty content?


I can confirm that the volume control of my specific Pro device is generating noise when turned.


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## Angel III

If you pause the song and turn the volume knob to 2 o'clock, do you hear a hum?  Check by touching the knob with your fingers.


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## marxzie

Angel III said:


> If you pause the song and turn the volume knob to 2 o'clock, do you hear a hum?  Check by touching the knob with your fingers.



I connected my notebook on battery and the static went away, so there might yet be some interference going on. At least I can assume now that the device is not defect in some way.

However, my Chord Qutest order just arrived, and I must say that this DAC has the Violectric DAC comfortably beat. Dynamics, detail, sound stage, layering and, best of all, no noise! My endgame combination may just be complete right now...

I had a Topping D90 MQA lying around, but preferred the internal Violectric DAC, not because of capability, but because of character. The Topping is the brighter DAC, and sounded harsher connected to the 590 compared to internal DAC. I would rate both DACs to be of similar quality otherwise.


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## Angel III

I thought it was a mass noise, due to the potentiometer which is not connected perfectly.
My advice is to put a copper flat washer on the potentiometer shaft and tighten the nut (by hand) with a good amount of force.
If the potentiometer makes good contact with the chassis, the noise disappears.


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## marxzie

Angel III said:


> I thought it was a mass noise, due to the potentiometer which is not connected perfectly.
> My advice is to put a copper flat washer on the potentiometer shaft and tighten the nut (by hand) with a good amount of force.
> If the potentiometer makes good contact with the chassis, the noise disappears.


Wouldn't that mean that I would hear noise on all inputs? I had static with the digital inputs only...


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## Angel III

Test your connections without coverage..


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## Sound Eq

greetings how does the 590 hold against newer amps such as enleum or holo audio bliss


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## project86

Haven't heard the Holo so no comment on that. The Enleum (and it's Bakoon predecessor) are... different. Not necessarily better or worse imho, just very different sounding amps. I can see why some people absolutely fall in love with them, but I can also see why they just sound off for some people as well. Very difficult comparison imho.

Honestly all three seem like well designed amps with plenty of power so it would come down to what headphones are being driven and what your tonal preferences are.


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## Koren (Dec 23, 2022)

this setting keeps the line output at 0db, (pre amp off)and the headphone preamp at preamp +18db, right?  because in the manual the position of the switches is exactly the opposite, which is wrong. The first picture is my setting and the second is MANUAL.


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## DMITRIY R

Koren said:


> this setting keeps the line output at 0db, (pre amp off)and the headphone preamp at preamp +18db, right?  because in the manual the position of the switches is exactly the opposite, which is wrong. The first picture is my setting and the second is MANUAL.


In the photo from the instructions, the shaded square is the cap of the dip switch.
Your gain of +18 dB is set strictly in accordance with the instructions.


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## Koren

DMITRIY R said:


> In the photo from the instructions, the shaded square is the cap of the dip switch.
> Your gain of +18 dB is set strictly in accordance with the instructions.


so my current setting is the pre amp of the line output is 0 dB and the pre amp of the headphone amplifier is currently set to + 18 dB for me, as shown in the picture, right?


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## Alien HP (Dec 23, 2022)

The pictures can be misleading in the manual. As @DMITRIY R said, the switches are pictured as black shaded rectangles in the manual even though they are actually white on the device.

You should refer to the "ON" label.


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## Koren

I really don't understand something... as it turned out in the past few days, because I misinterpreted the manual, the output of the dac line was all turned on, in the above position, because I thought it was turned off, but a few days ago it turned out that it was turned on... actually, now my problem is  the fact that I turned them all off, so the preamp is turned off at the moment, and my active speakers, which are on the xl output, started humming... and it never hummed before, it didn't make any noise... how is this possible?  and if we set all the switches in the program to the above position, i.e. on, what actually happens??? because the MANUAL does not write anything about this.  there can be no ground loop because it was not connected to any of the power distributors, nor was it connected to any of the power cables.. I am sure that this phenomenon depends on the setting of the preamp... I just can't understand that since they are all switched off now, it is in off mode and  right now my system is behaving badly... here is a picture of the current setup.


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## Tlaudio

Hi.
I have a question about gain operation.
I use meze109, but when I auditioned V590, it was around 8 o'clock with gain 0.
I know I can go down to -18, but if I enable -18 and -6 and go to -24, will the volume go down further?


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## sqz0914

Sound Eq said:


> greetings how does the 590 hold against newer amps such as enleum or holo audio bliss


I have both 590 and Enleum. I would say if you have Susvara, then go with Enleum. The sound that 590 produces is too soft for me. Enleum also drives LCD-5 quite well.


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## Fegefeuer

Tlaudio said:


> Hi.
> I have a question about gain operation.
> I use meze109, but when I auditioned V590, it was around 8 o'clock with gain 0.
> I know I can go down to -18, but if I enable -18 and -6 and go to -24, will the volume go down further?



-18 is max.


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## Tlaudio

Of course, the manual says that it is MAX±18.
However, I saw a thread saying that the volume increased when +24 was set.
I wanted to ask someone who has one if -24 would lower the volume.


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## baneand

Tlaudio said:


> Of course, the manual says that it is MAX±18.
> However, I saw a thread saying that the volume increased when +24 was set.
> I wanted to ask someone who has one if -24 would lower the volume.


On the hpa v222 same system for pre-gain, I used -8 switch to lower the gain. So that means it is used to lower the gain by 8dB


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## KEKPOG

Sound Eq said:


> greetings how does the 590 hold against newer amps such as enleum or holo audio bliss


I like the sound of 590, but if u wanna run totl headphone like susvara and 1266 on it, it lacks a bit of power imo


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## Fegefeuer

Sound Eq said:


> greetings how does the 590 hold against newer amps such as enleum or holo audio bliss



if you're trying to build around the Susvara (I vaguely remember it's your main or even sole headphone) and are absolutely deadset on that commitment I advise going the custom route and ditch any headphone amplifiers. The best I heard the Susvara on was a custom Pass with an autoformer built by a friend. Less inputs, functionality, more real estate on your desk or rack, more heat, more power consumption, being a bit careful with (re)connecting your headphones. (only a few steps of care). If you can live with that you're getting the best out of it. Also can be quite a bit more expensive if you're also trying to go for a tube pre. 

Holo Bliss or Enleum are not the answer.


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## DMITRIY R

KEKPOG said:


> I like the sound of 590, but if u wanna run totl headphone like susvara and 1266 on it, it lacks a bit of power imo


I disagree with your statement.
My V590 does quite well with 1266 TC. At the same time, you can comfortably listen to them with a gain of +6 decibels. I also have a Soloist GT. 1266 TC from him play a little more aggressive than V590. I don't hear a lack of power from either amplifier.


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## Tlaudio

V590 PRO has been placed on my desk.
The -24 gain certainly lowers the volume, but -18 is sufficient and I feel comfortable with the warranty.
I enjoy it with the built-in DAC, but I may put in a stand-alone DAC someday. (Pegasus R2R is on my mind)


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