# Fostex HP-P1 VS Gen5.5 imod + RSA SR-71B balanced output - Now with Fostex HP-P1 Review Page 2



## Lillee

Hi guys,
   
  So what are the differences? I am primarily using my Shure SE535LTDs. I have a Fostex HP-P1 on it's way to me Tuesday and I also have a Gen5.5 DIYMod coming but don't have access to a SR-71B to try it out. I will end up either keeping the Fostex or sell/swap it in for a SR-71B. I do have a Tomahawk but not sure if Tomahawk can match SR-71B in balanced output sound quality wise? Reason I ask is no matter how good this Fostex HP-P1 is, I honestly LOVE my Tomahawk's sound to bits so I can't help wonder what the SR-71B has to offer. I also may go with some high end headphones later on such as HS650's and would love to try balanced output.
   
  So basically we're talking
   
  1) Ipod 5.5gen Wolfson WM8758 16bit/44Khz, amp bypassed DIYMod style, DIYMod LOD into the phase splitter in the SR-71B, quad mono amp into balanced output custom cables to Shures
   
  2) Ipod 6th or 7th gen Cirrus DAC chip into Fostex's 32-bit DAC (AKM4480) and inbuilt amp to single ended output to Shures
   
  I know there's a lot of info on the CLAS vs Fostex debate, but I cannot bring myself to carry 3 devices so I think it's out of the question. Besides I wonder how much better a separate DAC is compared to a DIYMod with Wolfson DAC? Doesn't the CLAS have a Wolfson DAC chip too? Surely it can't be leaps and bounds better than the difference between a single and balanced output? But I digress...
   
  I've basically done a google search and read the first 3 pages of results and have not found anything conclusive other than what member EvolutionX has to say about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/577387/clas-protector-or-fostex-hpp1-for-jh13s
   
  ALSO: is there any hissing on the HP-P1 with sensitive IEMs? I guess I will find this out on Tuesday
   
  Any additional info would be great help!


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## evolutionx

Hi Lillee,
   
  I don't have a DIYMod iPod so I cannot comment on how it will pair with the HP-P1.   I have sold my CLAS since getting the HP-P1 as I find the DAC section to be slightly better.   The USB charging capability of Fostex HP-P1 also enables me to charge it while next to my laptop as well as utilizing portable chargers for mobile devices.   So far I find the combo of iPod Touch 5G + HP-P1 + SR-71B to be very good with all my iems (JH-16pro, K3003, CK100pro), as well as able to drive my LCD-2 with ease.   If i am on the road, I have the choice to just carry the HP-P1 without the added weight of SR-71B, and most recently I got my Headstage 4G, which add almost nothing to a new combo of HP-P1 + 4G.     I am really enjoying the HP-P1 combo and it also allows me to share my music with a friend with 2 separate output when combine with an amp.   
   
  I have not done a full balance set-up (balance-in from digital source) with the SR-71B, just recabled my JH-16pro and LCD-2 with protector-type input and the sound has improved.    I am still waiting for RSA to come out with their balanced DAC module to really go the full balance way.  
   
  The SR-71B is really a very good amp.  I have sold all my other amps and just keep the 71B to wait for RSA's new balanced DAC module to experience full balanced sound. In the meantime, I am happy with the HP-P1 combo and please be patient with your burning in of the HP-P1 amp section as it does get better after 200hrs.  
   
  Enjoy your music when your HP-P1 arrives......


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## evolutionx




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## Lillee

Hi Evolutionx,

 Thanks for the reply! 
   
  Curious that you choose to use the SR-71B amp instead of the built in amp in the Fostex. Is the SQ and/or balanced output worth the extra $$$ for an addition SR-71B amp? As in would you recommend this for those who have not already got an SR-71B? If you did not have the SR-71B would the HP-P1 amp section satisfy your IEM needs?
   
  For me I think carrying 3 items still is too much, plus the added expense of another amp.
   
  I will try these four combinations and see if I get a clear winner:
  1) HP-P1 on it's own
  2) HP-P1 line out to Tomahawk (bypass HP-P1 amp section)
  3) Imod to Tomahawk
  4) Imod to HP-P1 Line in (bypass DAC) to see how the amp section does on it's own
   
  Scenario 3 or 4 is pretty good or as good as the HP-P1 DAC (doubtful) then I will know my answer because undoubtedly the SR-71B will be superior to the Tomahawk (?).
   
  I am coming to Singapore in May, maybe we can test the Imod on your SR-71B for the definitive test!


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## evolutionx

Hi Lillee,
   
  You are welcome.
   
  I went thru a few amps (ALO RX MK2, Continental, Ibasso amps, SR-71B) when I was using the CLAS + iPhone 4 combo, and so I did not intentionally buy the SR-71B to pair with HP-P1.    HP-P1 on its own is good enough, especially after burning in and I really do not see the need to pair with SR-71B to enjoy it.   Some iems do not benefit as much from the additional SR-71B amp section, especially without re-cabled to protector type balanced cable.    Considering the costs to get SR-71B plus the recabling, i would say it may be better to use the money to upgrade your iem cable, or LOD cables or just buy another iem.   Plus the weight issue, portability and battery life, etc.  I mainly use my portables at home so I do experiment with different combos with all my iems, which is part of the fun of head-fi.
   
  Like I say, the SR-71B is a very good amp and I am keeping it in case there is a better CLAS or new balanced module from RSA which bring the sound to another level.   In case I am not available in May, you can actually try all these amps at Jaben Singapore.   They do carry RSA amps and many other interesting stuffs.    Cheers.


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## Lillee

Thanks Evolutionx!
   
  Extremely helpful and it satisfies my curiosity with the SR-71B. Yes, as you say if Ray Samuel releases a balanced DAC of some sort in the future, I will definitely have to sell up and upgrade. I really really like the RSA sound and hence why I was curious about how much better SR-71B would be and you've answered that.
   
  I doubt that the iMod can match the HP-P1 DAC section especially since the the HP-P1 outperforms the CLAS DAC as you have indicated. The HP-P1 will arrive tomorrow so if the sound is as great as you and Mike from Headfonia describes it to be, then I've found what I am looking for!
   
  Now I cannot decide if I want to let the Tomahawk go or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the RSA sound alot and this Tomahawk is a little gem.

 Thanks for the info on Jaben, I will definitely have to visit them!


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## Jalo

Lillie, of course, the Tomahawk is at least 5 to 6 generations old in the RSA line of portable amps.  Nothing wrong with it , it is still a very nice amp.  It's just that Ray, in my opinion, has been able to raise the bar on the sound with each new generation including the Predation, SR71a, Mustang, Shadow, Protector, and the last one being the SR71b.  I have own all of them except for the Shadow which sound very similar to the mustang.  I can tell you that I thought the SR71b has a much bigger sound than all the other RSA amps in balance mode while maintaining the RSA house sound.  So may be down the road you may want to take a look at it.  I think the CLAS can clearly beat the 5.5 gen Imod hands down.  You really should search this forum instead of using google search.  There have been a lot of information on all those devices you listed.


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## Lillee

Yeah I have been looking but there's nothing with direct comparison, esp when it comes to iMod info. There is too much information (how to build one, what's the best capacitor to use) but there's not much out there that says yes, this is as good as "X", and if there are most of it is from 2006...
   
  Thanks for the info on the RSA line, I thought as much but again noone out there has actually said what you just said. 
   
  It's like reading a whole library of books just to find out a snippet of information which can be simply answered by 1 post from someone... and after reading the library of posts, you get even more confused (not all ears are the same, opinions differ, they are using different headphones than is relevant for my situation etc. Too many variables)
   
  Thanks for taking the time to write, I think I have an idea on what I need to do.


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## Jalo

There has been a few impressions comparing the CLAS to the Imod before the CLAS Solo was release.  You can go to the Solo thread and read about that info.  The long and short of it was that the Solo was clearly better than the Imod because first of its great master clock that reclock all incoming signals via USB asynch transmission, and second, because of the refernce wolfson dac that was used in the Solo, whereas the imod was only able to bypass the amp and still using the ipod dac.  Well, it is especially true that if you have plan down the road to use fullsize headphone, a more powerful amp is desirable to pair with the the Solo.  Good luck with your journey.


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## Lillee

Thanks for the note about the CLAS v Imod info in the CLAS thread. I have been browsing for the last 30 mins and have not read anything definitive yet, just a bunch of people arguing bla bla or cables bla bla... almost given up... only on page 15 out of 60


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## lkkspp511327

I have a D7000 and a SR71A fed by iPhone 3gs or sony PCM-M10
  now I am looking for a source or better amp with tight budget.
  I heard that d7k need a better source than amp?
  few upgrade choice now
  1. sell SR71A get an HP-P1 (the PO can drive D7000?)
  2. sell SR71A get an SR71B (will be a lot of retermination job to do...)(huge upgrade from 71A?)
  3. sell SR71A get an DX100 (good choice because my files are mostly ALAC)
   
  or 4. Use iPad as source and get DACport(said more powerful than most portable amp!?)
  any suggestion?


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## Lillee

I think your weakest link is your source, so either option 1 or 3 will improve your sound quality dramatically more than option 2.
   
  There is an option 5: Keep SR-71A and buy a CLAS to decode your iPhone 3GS


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## lkkspp511327

thx Lillee
  option 5 is good
  now i am seeing a L3 FS now
  Very Powerful amp right?
  sony M10/iPhone 3gs -> L3 good for D7000?


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## Lillee

I have read good things about the L3, but to be honest I prefer the RSA amps for their sound. 
   
  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the AH-D7000 only 25ohm? RSA SR-71A should be more than enough to drive them no? Why are you wanting more power? If you get SR-71B and recable the D7000 with balanced cable volume will double.
   
  I think you are better off to sort out your source and get the CLAS for overall performance boost, there are some now for sale, I saw one not too long ago for ~$350, bargain. The iphone 3GS is not the best of the iDevices for sound quality, or so I've read. I feel my iPhone 4S is still not good enough and apparently it is better than 3GS. (iMod > 5.5gen ipod, > 6/7gen ipod, iphone 4S, iPad2 > iphone 4 > Iphone 3GS. This is what I have read, not heard for myself).
   
  Or you can trade SR-71A in for a Fostex HP-P1...


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## Currawong

The L3 doesn't sound good with just an iPhone as a source IMO.


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## Lillee

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The L3 doesn't sound good with just an iPhone as a source IMO.


 


  There you go. IMO I don't think anything sounds good on iPhone as a source... there is audible wifi/3G interference for one


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## slwiser

I too have found the SR-71B to be better than the internal HP-P1 amp for most of my listening enjoyment.  So I take it as a package to work with me along with  the balanced iBasso DB2 dac.  I am using my iPod Touch not the iPhone. I have no experience with the iPhone but the Touch is very good and I hear no noise.  What I do find is that I need to reboot my Touch every once in a while to get it so sycn better with the HP-P1.  Not a problem but it does happen.
   
  I am using my balanced DT1350 with HD-25 velour pads and Moon Audio IEM Silver Dragon  wire as the headphone.  I was using both the HD25-1 along with the DT1350 but now find the DT1350 with these pads have everything they were lacking before. Course this makes them slightly tighter on my head since the pads  simply apply over the existing pads.


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## Lillee

Ah DT1350 balanced, I was looking into those. So they are good indeed?


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## slwiser

Quote: 





lillee said:


> Ah DT1350 balanced, I was looking into those. So they are good indeed?


 


   
  Yep...I call them my mini-HD800s but I needed the balanced DAC to get to this level.


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## Lillee

My Fostex HP-P1 finally arrived today, out of the box I am smiling ear to ear! Needs 200 hours you say? I don't believe it because it is that good now, how can it get much better?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  First things to note: No 535SE hiss! I was worried about this, but it's all good news!
  Secondly, timing of tracks is a bit more accurate, I notice the difference immediately, it's great
   
  I need more time on it to give full assessment but from what I hear now it's leagues ahead of the iPhone 4S DAC (to be expected).
   
  So who wants to buy a 1 week old RSA Tomahawk??


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## flyfish2002

I jumped in to the portable DAC world with the CLAS and the SR-71B.  An iPod Touch 4G 64gb is my source  - all FLAC lossless files made possible by FLAC Player, an app from iTunes.
   
  I debated whether to go HP-P1 or CLAS - already had the SR 71-B and would never part with it.  The dealer I worked with (who carried both) told me that if I was willinging to carry three pieces, it was CLAS hands down when partnered with the SR-71B.  It was an unbeatable portable combination that rivaled many desk top set-ups.
   
  I took the advice and all I can say is that I am very pleased.


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## Lillee

Yeah I would say carrying 3 items (well for me it would be 4, cause I will have a phone as well) I would expect/demand such quality!
   
  I am very happy with the Fostex for now, but if Ray Samuel's comes out with a killer balanced portable DAC then that will change!


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## Lillee

*Fostex HP-P1 mini first impressions:*
   
_I am moving from iPhone 4S playing lossless files + RSA Tomahawk + SE535LTD_
   
*Build quality good:* is industry leading. It is solid, curvy, beautiful and integrates very well with an iPhone with the cut outs on the top. It just oozes quality. Think RSA build quality. It fits well into my jeans pocket as a unit surprisingly, so quite portable considering all it does.
   
*Build quality bad:* The unit rattles? erm well not really rattles but it's like the battery is free moving inside the unit or something? Not a huge problem or even a problem, just being pedantic. You have to purposely vigorously shake it to hear it. The volume knob is a bit big, and not as solid as I'd prefer. The dampening or resistance of the knob when turning it is very light and you feel like you can accidently bump it and turn it up/down, not that that has happened. But I have noticed that my ALO usb cable sticks out a lot and the volume knob is dwarfed by the ALO cable (The ALO cable sticks out way too far, it's not at all a "portable" cable... why can't anyone invent a really really short, low profile or even hard mount 90 deg to 90 deg USB cable? I might have to DIY) . A large 3.5mm plug such as those from Pailiccs or Viablue will dwarf the volume knob. Bottom line although it looks big and looks clumsy, in practice it's not actually a problem and probably better that it's big as everything else on that side of the Fostex is big too. Need more time to suss out if this is a problem in the long term or not
   
*That case:* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what were they thinking? The Fostex is such an artwork of industrial design and then they want you to park it in a monstrosity of velcro and nylon straps! Sure I can see that it was designed to carry everything and sort of be useful, but in practice it makes the unit feel 2x bigger and annoying to use as you have to rip velcro everytime you want to access your ipod. I honestly gave it a good try, in the end I slipped the unit into a fake leather pouch. I think it will so fit into a leather case made for Garmin 5" GPSs or even something for a Nintendo DS. I've ordered some cases on fleebay and will update if anyone's interested.
   
*Sound Quality: *Left the best for last. At this early stage I can only give impressions on 4 things that stood out the most initially:
   
  1) Bass. Let me start by saying the RSA Tomahawk is no slouch when it comes to bass, but the Fostex simply just has more of it! I attribute this to the P1 DAC compared with iPhone's DAC. There's more of it, it's more pronounced, it's deeper in some tracks compared to iPhone+ Tomahawk, but not muddy or droning. It's tight, defined, rounded at the edges. Pretty much the same as Tomahawk just more of it and deeper depth, possibly from higher resolution of the DAC.
   
  2) Resolution. I honestly think the resolution difference in moving from iPhone+Tomahawk to Fostex is the same as moving from iPhone headphone out to Tomahawk! Yes this Fostex Dac has amazing resolution and resolves tracks very very well. It's a whole new level of clarity, background singers come to life, instrument separation is superb, quality of the notes are crisp and accurate. Nuances in some tracks are clean and clear. I don't feel it takes away from the musicality of tracks as the synergy overall is very good. It just sounds superb.
   
  3) Soundstage: Filter 2 which is described as: _2: AKM’s newly developed digital filter called “minimum delay filter”. It accurately reproduces the original recorded sound without pre-echo. _To me it enhances sound stage two fold. Flipping from 1 to 2 and back again on most tracks confirms that I like filter 2 much much more. Filter 1 sounds flat and 2D in comparison. Filter 2 is more forward, positions the music further into the darkness infront of you, but not to the point of "Grand Hall" setting on my home theatre receiver. It simply gives more air and depth. I dunno but to me it's a much more desirable. Need more time to suss out ultimately if it is better
   
  4) High end shrill: This was one thing that bothered me a lot when I first got the Shure's. Let me try to describe it: On some tracks, the high end was very fatiguing, sometimes overbearing, best to be described as "shrill" or "shrieking" where high pitched spectrum was just compressed into one blob and pushed out, and made my ears uncomfortable to listen to those tracks for long periods. Maybe I am sensitive to high end frequency I don't know. Would make me wince sometimes it was that noticeable. I had a feeling this was to do with the iPhone DAC. It was noticeable enough for me to want to try the Fostex out and take the monetary risk. Well I am glad to say I was right! The Fostex resolves this upper frequency mish mash with accuracy and I no longer hear the high end shrill. It's made my music much more relaxed at any volume. I am SO glad this was the case and that it wasn't just me imagining this. Overall this "fix" alone was worth the money in my opinion.
   
*Caveat:* I have not tried the Fostex line out to the Tomahawk because I don't have a high quality mini to mini, but I am sure most of these issues that I list above have nothing to do with the Tomahawk itself. I feel that the Tomahawk will do a stellar job as an amplifier and was only held back by the source of iPhone 4S dac. So bottom line, if you have a good amp, just buy a CLAS and save money, that's if you don't mind carrying 3 units. But as a single package, the Fostex is unbeatable.
   
*Hiss: *Now I am allergic to background amp hiss. I break out in hives and start coughing. I cannot stand it and it's the first feature I look for in an amp. Unfortunately there is hiss with the HP-P1 on the SE535ltd's but I am happy to report it's acceptable. It's not as deep dark and silent like RSA Tomahawk, but on the lower gain setting it is just barely audible. If you turn the unit off and on, only then can you hear it. It is nowhere near as bad as the FiiO E11 which hiss sounds worst than the Fostex on highest gain setting. Turning the volume to any level does not increase hiss. It is acceptably low enough not to be an issue so I am pleased and relieved at that. I am itchy but have not broken out in hives... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Battery and charge: *As per what the folks in the Fostex thread were talking about: http://www.head-fi.org/t/566026/fostex-hp-p1-portable-amplifier-and-dac-for-ipod-iphone-short-review-and-impressions-thread the Fostex plugged into power does not drain the iPhone. I've been listening for 4 hours now and my iPhone 4S battery has remained at 88% without dipping. This is a BIG BIG feature for me as it would be unacceptably inconvenient to have to stop half way during the day to charge the iPhone cause it's out of juice! What would have been great is having that final step of the Fostex charging the iphone too, that would be enormously advantageous. But so far because it "tops up" the iphone it's not a major issue for me.
   
  Bad: 7 Hours is all you get which compared to the Tomahawk's 400 hours, it's miniscule. But then again 400 hours is ridiculous anyway but still, 14 or 20 hours would have been nice. Again not an issue for me because my commute is 45mins max between power plugs. I did notice that recharge time was long, even plugged into the wall socket rather than PC the HP-P1 still wants a longer than usual time to charge. Again, not a problem for me as it remains on power all day at work and when I get home. Pretty much I think it matches my Iphone 4S's battery life of a single day (heavy user) so I religiously charge my phone anyway.
   
*Conclusion: *I think as a single unit solution, THIS IS IT. I agree that a Fostex/CLAS + Ibasso DB2 + RSA SR-71B + Balanced phones would rip holes in the HP-P1 but then it should, it's 3 boxes compared to just 1. Even CLAS + SR-71B may be better than Fostex on it's own but then that's 2 boxes. My point is for one box solution it's awesomeness. Turn off the Fostex, the iphone recognises this and switches off music at same time, very nice and convenient feature that can't be done on 2 or 3 boxes.
   
  I've said it before but I'll say it again: If (big IF) Ray Samuel's releases an iDevice integrated portable balanced DAC I will be forced to sell up and buy that and the SR-71B and recable my SE535LTD.
   
*Value for Money:* Since I purchased my Fostex for a STEAL of a price I can't be trusted with the value for money comment because in my case it was RIDICULOUSLY good value for money.
   
_*Music I listenned to for the review:* Michael Jackson's HIStory, Queen 2011 Remastered Greatest Hits, Fleetwood Mac Greatest Hits, The Corrs Forgiven Not Forgotten, Bee Gees The Greatest Hits the Record, The Eagles Greatest Hits, Pink Floyd The Wall, Guns n Roses Greatest Hits, Live - Awake, Adele 21, Missy Higgins (all), Dolly Parton Treasures, Enya Greatest Hits, Kelly Clarkson Breakaway, Norah Jones Come away with me, ABBA Gold._


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## barbes

Quote: 





lillee said:


> The ALO cable sticks out way too far, it;s not at all a "portable" cable... why can't anyone invent a really really short, low profile or even hard mount 90 deg to 90 deg USB cable? I might have to DIY


 


 Somebody has...see Twisted Cables USB on my CLAS below.  It's great.


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## Lillee

Awesome! must check it out. Where to buy??
   
  www.twistedcables.com.au is offline. So how do I get a hold of one of these cales? My guess is I have to DIY?


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## flyfish2002

Great overview Lillee!  I know for a two box unit, you will be very pleased with the combination of audio excellence and convenience. 
   
  Keep us posted as the HP-P1 breaks in and let us know what you do with the case situtation. 
   
  BTW, where did you hear that RSA might be coming out with a balanced portable DAC?  I would like to stay up to date on that - just out of curiousity. 
   
  Well off to listen to my three box monstrousity...I am considering a back pack


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## barbes

Quote: 





lillee said:


> Awesome! must check it out. Where to buy??
> 
> www.twistedcables.com.au is offline. So how do I get a hold of one of these cales? My guess is I have to DIY?


 


 Check your PM.


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## Lillee

Quote: 





flyfish2002 said:


> Great overview Lillee!  I know for a two box unit, you will be very pleased with the combination of audio excellence and convenience.
> 
> Keep us posted as the HP-P1 breaks in and let us know what you do with the case situtation.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad you liked it, it was fun to write. Regarding RSA Dac: I have read it somewhere here, can't remember where, perhaps the CLAS thread? I don't pretend to know anything officially or whatever, I was simply stating the fact that IF (a big IF) RSA does do a balanced portable DAC, I would easily and immediately cave in!


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## Lillee

Quote: 





barbes said:


> Check your PM.


 


  Thanks Dave! I will email him right now!


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## Lillee

*And now a quick review of the DIYMod + RSA Tomahawk vs Fostex HP-P1 (to answer my own question!)*
   
  I purchased a DIYMod based on a gen 5.5 ipod classic which comes with CF upgrade, using Blackgate caps (whatever they are?) from a member here on Head-Fi. I also have my iPhone 4S to compare to so I will do a 4 way review/impression
   
  1) iPhone headphone plug 
  2) iPhone 4S + Tomahawk
  3) DIY + Tomahawk
  4) What I think about the three versus Fostex HP-P1
   
  None of the equipment has been burnt in so I can only offer my first impressions. Sometimes I find this to be easier as it's what you notice right away before getting to used to a sound signature. 

_Tracks used: Micheal Jackson: Beat it, The Way You Make Me Feel. Norah Jones Come Away With Me. Fleetwood Mac Big Love (live), Tusk. Queen, We Will Rock You. Pink Floyd The Wall. The Corrs Erin Shore. Roxette Listen To Your Heart, It Must Have Been Love, amongst many others._
   
*1) iPhone 4S on it's own*
  High pitched Shrill is present. Any powerful and "busy" set of high and loud volleys of high notes or vocals and it becomes a mish mash of high pitch shrieking. I truly believe this is the iPhone 4S DAC. Soundstage is the least of the 4 options. Small hall is the best I can describe it. It's not a convincing soundstage as it sounds too compact and closed. Resolution is lower, not as crisp, mids less defined, high end suffers alot and is a significant downgrade. Bass has is the biggest downgrade. It's muddier and less defined. There's less of it and the thump has less authority and body. Voices are not as convincing, being somewhere between your ears. In general the music sounds compact and closed. The iPhone does exhibit some hiss, after a track there is about 2-3 seconds of very very low but still audible hiss before IOS shuts off the DAC (I presume) and you hear an audible click after which is proceeded with absolute silence. 
   
*Good:* After carrying the Fostex or Tomahawk along with the iPhone, you really appreciate just the phone on its own! So much less to carry! Acceptable performance considering it's a phone.
   
*Bad: *Worst option of the four reviewed here in terms of sound quality but still OK. Compact sound stage. High freq shrill.
   
*2) iPhone 4S + Tomahawk*
  High pitch "shrill" is there, ever present in most tracks, probably worst than iPhone on it's own because it's now being amplified by the Tomahawk.  Sound is more compact and not as forward as HP-P1. Instrument separation is still pretty impressive and resolution is pretty good too, all the nuances are present and audible. Acoustic guitar and cymbals are most impressive. Voice is intimate and close by, roughly positioned in front of your face. Sound stage is good, about a small concert hall sized. Bass is strong and thumping as it always has been without droning or muddiness: it's pretty tight. The Tomahawk is an impressive unit indeed. Hiss is not present at all, I can't tell difference between the Tomahawk being on or off. The iPhone hiss is still present but the Tomahawk is completely silent, deep and dark. Overall acceptable and quite enjoyable, if not for the high freq shrill. If it wasn't for the high freq shrill I'd end my audio journey with this set up because it is quite acceptable and enjoyable.
   
*Good:* Impressive considering it's a phone. Resolution is good, bass is good, mids are clear and well defined. 
   
*Bad:* High end shrill, Tomahawk outclasses the iPhone so it's the weakest link
   
*3) DIYMod + Tomahawk*
  Surprisingly good performance for a 6 yr old iPod! High Pitch shrill is still here. I feel it's worst than iPhone 4S + Tomahawk as cymbals and high frequency vocals are a mash of sound rather than metal cymbals. Vocalised "S's" become sort of a SHHH sound. There is an overall feeling that the DIYMod has a more analogue sound, not as clinical as iPhone 4S, quite like... a vinyl record actually but nearly as convincing. It almost sounds muddy. I have a turntable and Luxman 2 Channel amp hooked up to KEF floorstanders downstairs and I can't exactly say it's as convincing as that setup. It's almost "artificial". Resolution of cymbals and acoustic guitar is not as crisp as iPhone 4S. Everything else seems pretty much on Par with iPhone 4S. Instrument separation is still good, resolution is still high quality, able to hear the usual nuances present in the usual tracks. Bass is still thumping, tight and good quantity. Voices are about the same location, roughly in front of your face. Voices seem not to be as crisp and intimate however, I am used to clinical precision with voices so this might be my own ears. Sound stage to me sounds smaller than the iPhone 4S, only very slightly on some tracks. Hiss is about the same as iPhone 4S, basically nothing at all. Overal quite impressive and I enjoyed it more than I thought I would have. 
   
*Good: *Overall a good sound, very little difference from the iPhone 4S which I feel is already pretty good. More analogue sounding, not as clinical
   
*Bad: *High end shrill still there, possibly worst than iPhone 4S in come cases. Transfer times from iTunes to gen 5.5 is on USB 1.0 so it's really really slow compared to iPhone 4S, twice or more slower to transfer same amount of songs. Lastly I would not carry a DIYMod on top of a iPhone 4S if I already have the iPhone 4S. This would mean carrying 3 devices which is unnecessary (unless you want to for some reason).
   
*4) Fostex HP-P1 and iPhone 4S*
  Wow, after 3-4 hours on the other devices, we come round robin back to the Fostex. Yes it sounds the best of the four, noticeable straight away. It reaffirms the price of admission. Sound stage is large dark concert all, it's quite impressive and addictive. Voices are somewhere 20 or so rows of seats infront of you. Enya is just ETHEREAL! Some tracks give me goose bumps. Adele is superb on the Fostex. Instrument separation is superb and is leagues ahead. Mids are most impressive, precise, clean and highly detailed. Bass is very very impressive, thumping yet tight, deep depth. High freq shrill is completely eradicated, instead the Fostex accurately resolves strong high pitched "volleys" of sounds, making it less fatiguing. S's are S's and not SHH's. Hiss is just slightly more than scenario 1 or 2 but really it's quite acceptable. Overall the Fostex is the most enjoying to listen to off the lot, biases aside. I really feel the overall balance of the dac+amp combo is fantastic. If you are somewhat into this hobby, you owe it to yourself to demo one, it's that good. Leave your wallet at home though when you do!
   
*Conclusion:*
  In order of best to worst has to be:
   
  1) Fostex HP-P1 - No shrill, massive and impressive sound stage. Overall it sounds very good!
  2) iPhone 4S + Tomahawk - Only because I then don't have to carry an ipod as well as my phone, but mainly because I think there is very little difference between the DIYMod and iPhone 4S. 
  3) DIYMod + Tomahawk - look it is impressive but just can't overlook the shrill and slow transfer speeds. I am not sure I prefer a more analogue sound of the DIYMod, it's not convincing enough.
  4) iPhone on it's own - No surprises
   
  After 4 or so hours I am convinced I've chosen the right rig. It's the most enjoyable and least fatiguing.
   
  Thanks for reading!


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## Currawong

Nice work on both reviews Lillee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  For a long time I have been scratching my head about getting an iMod, so I'm glad I held out and got the HP-P1 instead.


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## Lillee

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. Yeah I had to find out for myself (at great expense) but it's done and I am happy and can sleep soundly at night haha.
   
  Next step in my musical journey: headphones. I feel it's a daunting task, at least for my wallet's sake! I am two minds about it and really am not too fond of headphones. It makes my ears hot! I can always fire up the Luxman downstairs...
   
  Those Westone ES5X's look the business for 1200 bananas!


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## Currawong

Don't forget to add your review (or a review) to the product page: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fostex-hp-p1


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## Lillee

Thanks for advice, I have added it as a link to this thread. Not sure if I should cut and paste instead?


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## slwiser

Decided to remove my comment original comment... There are many good looking setups around here.


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## Currawong

Quote: 





lillee said:


> Thanks for advice, I have added it as a link to this thread. Not sure if I should cut and paste instead?


 
   
  I reckon you should paste the review in there, but link to this thread.


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## Lillee

Cool it's done, thanks for letting me know what to do! this is a cool forum I must say


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## VortexBlast

I will soon get a Fostex HP-P1 for my iPod Classic but I have a question. Since the Fostex DAC supports playing FLAC 24/96 files but the Classic doesn't, unless you put Rockbox in it, would it still work with a Rockboxed iPod Classic?


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## Lillee

I am not entirely sure but, isn't rock box only compatible with iPod gen 5.5 and older? If so I can confirm it does not work with my imod gen 5.5 running apple software


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## VortexBlast

Quote: 





lillee said:


> I am not entirely sure but, isn't rock box only compatible with iPod gen 5.5 and older? If so I can confirm it does not work with my imod gen 5.5 running apple software


 


  It's not a finalized, stable version yet but you can actually port Rockbox on a Classic 6G/7G  but it's a little bit more complicated. Just check freemyipod.org and it shows how to do it.


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## Lillee

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> It's not a finalized, stable version yet but you can actually port Rockbox on a Classic 6G/7G  but it's a little bit more complicated. Just check freemyipod.org and it shows how to do it.


 

 All well and good but whether it works with the Fostex, I haven't got a clue


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## Currawong

I'm pretty sure Rockbox is not supported for digital output.


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## VortexBlast

Oh well. I still have my iPad with Flac Player so it's alright.
  I also read that the amp is not very good on the Fostex compared to a SR71 but by how far? Can it drive for example a HiFiMan HE-500 or LCD-2 to quite loud listening levels?
  I'm upgrading from a Fiio E11 so surely, the amp section of the Fostex is going to be way more powerful.


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## Lillee

I read before about the Fostex being challenged with the LCD-2 compared to SR-71B but then it sounds like not many portable amps can handle the LCD2? I think it was Mike's review at headfonia but can't be sure.
   
  I left the E11 behind 2 amps ago, so yes it is far better quality if not more powerful. With easy to drive headphones or IEMs the Fostex is excellent.


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## slwiser

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> Oh well. I still have my iPad with Flac Player so it's alright.
> I also read that the amp is not very good on the Fostex compared to a SR71 but by how far? Can it drive for example a HiFiMan HE-500 or LCD-2 to quite loud listening levels?
> I'm upgrading from a Fiio E11 so surely, the amp section of the Fostex is going to be way more powerful.


 
  There are more things about the sound of an amp than whether it will drive a certain headphone; i.e., tonal quality, attack speed, imaging. In addition to that one needs to think about which headphone you will be using since the headphone has a huge impact on how the amp will responds due to the impedance matching. You will be reading about the synergy of your components around here that this is what is being discussed when the word synergy is used.  Headphone efficiency is another thing that will be important among other things.
   
  I have the B model that does balanced mode and single ended.  Single ended HP-P1 and my B model are close enough for me not to think of using the B model with the headphones that I use but going balanced with my iBasso DB2 DAC the more complex setup is much more enjoyable than the simple HP-P1 and headphone. 
   
  When using my portable setups I am using either of these; Senn HD-25 or the Beyer DT1350.  Both are able to go either single ended or balanced.  Right now my preference between these is the DT1350 with the Senn HD25 velour pads.


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## Lillee

*UPDATE!*
   
  I recently had a bit of an issue with battery recharging. What happened was I already had the unit turned on and playing music. Then halfway in the day while the unit was still on I plugged it into power. About 2-3 hours later it died! It was a little discerning but in the end if was the battery. After a long charge while turned off it's back to normal. I think you have to have it turned off, plug it into power, then turn it on and play music to have it charge while playing music. Otherwise it dies. I haven't been able to confirm this though (been a busy week). This prompted me to find out about a firmware update and if one was available, couldn't hurt to ask I thought.
   
  I contacted the Australian supplier for Fostex and they have the latest firmware and special tool (?) to update the firmware. I have no idea what firmware number this is but apparently it was released very recently (as recent as yesterday?). I'll let you know how I go with the firmware update and what number that is.
   
  I am running 1.1.0 and 1.1.2 presently and the supplier knows this, so it must be a version later than this.


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## VortexBlast

I wonder why you can't do it yourself. It's kind of very annoying if there are no authorized Fostex supplier to do it for you.


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## IceClass

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> I wonder why you can't do it yourself. It's kind of very annoying if there are no authorized Fostex supplier to do it for you.


 


  Tell me about it. Not many Fostex dealers around Ice Station Zebra


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## Lillee

Yeah I know what you mean, I am just thankful that it can be done at all


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## Lillee

From Fostex HP-P1 thread:
   
  Quote:


lillee said:


> Check out the case that I found for it, fits like a glove, very happy with the case: http://www.head-fi.org/t/597926/cases-for-a-fostex-hp-p1-based-portable-rig
> 
> *UPDATE ON HP-P1: Burnt in???*
> 
> ...


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## VortexBlast

I noticed this improvement as well. When I got my HP-P1, everything sounded clear but a bit harsh if paired with a DT-880 Pro (250Ohm) and no bass at all. I went WTH? So I let it burn in for around 40 hours and the improvements were very noticeable. Highs were much more smoother, mids less grainy and even clearer, more punchier, more defined bass. As you said, there's also more impact and more slam.
  I love my HP-P1, I just wish I could update the firmware myself. I can't justify sending my HP-P1 just for a firmware update. Oh and I also wish that the volume knob was more rugged, it does feel a bit fragile. But the overall build quality is top notch.


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## operamatt

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The L3 doesn't sound good with just an iPhone as a source IMO.


 
  any idea how it sounds with an hp-p1 as the dac? My fostex unit came in about a week ago and i am undecided between the SR-71B & the Triad L3 as the external amp.


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## Lillee

It's superb as a DAC. I have this exact same setup now HP-P1 to L3. With LLP it's even better...


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## operamatt

Quote: 





lillee said:


> It's superb as a DAC. I have this exact same setup now HP-P1 to L3. With LLP it's even better...


 
  perfect!! is there any hiss or noise floor issues when using with sensitive iems? i am also considering the alo rx-mk3-B.
   
  decisions decisions.


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## Lillee

Unfortunately L3 does hiss with ES5's, however I hear that ALO RX MK3 B also hisses. I don't think it's a fault of the amps but the overly low resistance of the ES5's. I use an inline static 30ohm resistor and it works well with the setup. To be honest, when music is playing it's not such a big issue. Quiet time at night listening to jazz or classical and you could do without the hiss... That's when the 30ohm resistor comes in.


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