# Dared MP-5 Headphone & Integrated Amp with USB DAC



## Elephas

The Dared MP-5 is a tube headphone and integrated amp. It also has a USB DAC. It seems to be available and is priced attractively.

 Listed at JPY 42000, about US$358
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/yu-house/698066/

 Listed at GBP 250, about US$434
http://www.kronoshi-fi.co.uk/dared-amps.htm

 More links:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/dared/dared.html
http://www.daredtube.com
http://www.daredtube.com/pages/pMP%205.htm


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## Elephas

The Dared MP-5 is listed on eBay by seller 2004subarusti for US$499.

 Title of auction: DARED USB DAC TUBE AMP COMPUTER MP3 AUDIOFILE


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## Elephas

I saw the Dared MP5 on Yahoo Taiwan Auctions and couldn't resist the low price, about US$180. The box is well-packed. It includes cables, a pair of white gloves and a brush. (Click thumbnails to view)





























 The AKG K701 sounds good with the Dared MP5. The Grado HF-1 also sounds good; bass is strong and solid. With the ATH-W5000, there's an audible hiss even at lowest volume and with no music playing.









 There's a lot to try with the Dared MP5. I plan to use its speaker outputs to drive a pair of speakers or the AKG K1000. I will try the USB input with the standard WinXP and the usb-audio.com USB drivers. I haven't figured out how to remove the black grill, and the manual doesn't explain how. Tube rolling will need to wait until I can obtain some tubes and remove the grill.


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## jjcha

w00t!!! Congrats man! I've been eyeballing this unit for a nice little pick-up. You gotta let us know your thoughts with each of those cans.

 Best,

 -Jason


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## Elephas

The black metal cover is removed by inserting a philips head screwdriver and removing two screws.

 There are two green lighted strips on the big tube that act like meter bars. They stay still at my normal listening range, and "dance" becoming larger and smaller along with the music at high volume levels.

 Using plug-n-play with WinXP, the Dared MP5 appears as "USB Speakers" and sound quality is OK. A red LED above the USB port lights up only when music is playing. A switch at the back selects between USB and the analog RCA inputs.

 The Sony SA5000 sounds good with the Dared MP5, although there's a very slight audible buzz sound through the headphones without music playing.

 (Click thumbnails to view)


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## Elephas

Based on just a couple hours with the Dared MP5, I think it is a tremendous value at the price I paid.

 Other amps I've heard at the US$150 to US$250 price range, including the Firestone Cute Beyond, TLab T-Cube portable amp, Pro-Ject HeadBox MkI and some others, did not seem as impressive-sounding as this amp. This is based on memory, not direct comparisons, of course.

 Jason, it seems as if the Dared MP5's gain is too much for some Audio-Technica headphones and there's buzzing with no music playing. Interestingly, there's only a very slight buzz with the Grado HF-1.


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## jjcha

Nice. Honestly, a bit of audible buzz never bothered me all that much, especially at this price level. By the time I get my music to my listening levels, I can't hear it anyway.

 It certainly is a beautiful unit and would be perfect for my computer rig. I'm largely looking for an amp for the K 1000, but I do occasionally like to plug in a Grado or SA5k into this rig, so the functionality would be perfect.

 Hmm. Very tempting. Especially when I think about tuberolling and if this thing could be modded...

 Heh I dig the little tube light-show... 

 What are you using now for the K 1000?

 Best,

 -Jason


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## robm321

After reading the review on this amp - I was left with the feeling that the sound was mediocre, and that it's functionality and finish is were the highlights.


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## jjcha

Elephas, if you have the chance, and don't mind opening it up, could you post picts of the inside? I'm curious as to what parts are inside and the potential for modifications.

 Best,

 -Jason


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## Elephas

Jason, I'm not very experienced with the K1000 and can't comment much on how the MP5 compares to other amps. It sounds good to me. I was using a very old speaker amp, a Lazarus Mark II, before with the K1000. I think the Dared does a better job than the old Lazarus driving the K1000. The Lazarus sometimes clips when the music gets loud, and the Dared hasn't yet.

 The green strips really get moving now. When they almost touch the K1000 is becoming loud for me. I think I can stand it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The "dancing" movement follows the bass line; when drums start banging the green strips extend more.

 Yes, as you can see I'm using the stock K1000 tail-end cable. *sigh* Equinox, where art thou?

 (click to view)


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## Icehawk

Hrm, if it wasn't for the buzz I'd definitely go for this - according to the other thread the US distro price is $350 shipped. What can I say, I have a REAL bad hankering for a magic eye amp... and a DAC wouldn't hurt. Too bad it doesn't also include an optical input though.


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## Jahn

$180 from yahoo taiwan auctions and a dancing magic eye - argh, so cool! glad you're enjoying it!


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## Ypoknons

Oh, if only it would fit in my Hong Kong - New York carry on bag....


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## Elephas

Jason, here you go. (click to view)


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## Elephas

The hum/buzz with the W5000, L3000, AD2000 and ES7 bothers me and I'm not using the AT headphones with this amp. The buzz is slighter with the Grado HF-1, SA5000, DT880 and HD650. The K701 exhibits the slightest buzz. There's no buzz with the K1000 connected to the speaker terminals. I tried changing power cords and plugging the MP5 directly to a wall socket, but the buzz was still present.

 The headphone port is a 3.5mm socket, so I'm using the Grado 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter. The volume control has steps.

 Using the CEC DA53, which has a fixed output, the headphone port's gain is very high. With most of my headphones, it is already loud before the volume control reaches 4 or 5 clicks up from minimum. With the K701, the first volume step above zero volume only produces sound in the left channel. At the next step up, both the left and right channel are balanced but the volume level is already high for me. It's the same with the HF-1 except the left channel kicks in at two steps above zero volume and it is already loud at the third step.

 Using the LavryBlack DA10 in combination with the MP5 results in a much greater range of volume control. I reduced the Lavry's output volume, and the MP5's volume control range is useable now. I'm listening to the HF-1 at the 12 o'clock position with the DA10 at 20.

 Note that I don't have much experience with tube headphone amplifiers, and this is my first one. Other than this Dared, I've only heard the Meier Corda EarTube, Cayin HA-1A, and a few other Chinese tube amps.


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## jjcha

Thanks Elephas. There's a lot of useful information in this thread. There's a high probability that I'll be getting one in the near future.

 Best regards,

 -Jason


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## Elephas

I found out the hard way why the brush is included. The mirror finish is a fingerprint-magnet and I used one of my lint-free cleaning cloths to wipe it. There are now slight scratches on the finish.

 Using a brush or compressed air to clear dust from the case before wiping it seems to be a good idea.


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## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_The hum/buzz with the W5000, L3000, AD2000 and ES7 bothers me and I'm not using the AT headphones with this amp. The buzz is slighter with the Grado HF-1, SA5000, DT880 and HD650. The K701 exhibits the slightest buzz. There's no buzz with the K1000 connected to the speaker terminals. I tried changing power cords and plugging the MP5 directly to a wall socket, but the buzz was still present.

 The headphone port is a 3.5mm socket, so I'm using the Grado 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter. The volume control has steps.

 Using the CEC DA53, which has a fixed output, the headphone port's gain is very high. With most of my headphones, it is already loud before the volume control reaches 4 or 5 clicks up from minimum. With the K701, the first volume step above zero volume only produces sound in the left channel. At the next step up, both the left and right channel are balanced but the volume level is already high for me. It's the same with the HF-1 except the left channel kicks in at two steps above zero volume and it is already loud at the third step.

 Using the LavryBlack DA10 in combination with the MP5 results in a much greater range of volume control. I reduced the Lavry's output volume, and the MP5's volume control range is useable now. I'm listening to the HF-1 at the 12 o'clock position with the DA10 at 20.

 Note that I don't have much experience with tube headphone amplifiers, and this is my first one. Other than this Dared, I've only heard the Meier Corda EarTube, Cayin HA-1A, and a few other Chinese tube amps._

 

Elephas,

 How do you compare the Cayin HA-1A and this with the K1000?

 thanks


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## Icehawk

Ok, I sent an email to the distributor - if he'll still do the $350 shipped pricing I'm buying one this week. Hopefully it won't be too noisy with my Grados though, I can't stand noise in my audio. Too impatient to wait for the Zhaolu D2 unless the pricing on this went up... me likey Magic Eyes


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## Elephas

jamesp, I didn't use a K1000 with the Cayin HA-1A demo unit's speaker outputs, only an AD2000 through the headphone port. I haven't brought the K1000 to audio shops to try it with demo amps, maybe I should.

 I have a 6.3mm to XLR adapter for the K1000, and used it with my Lehmann BCL and AT-HA5000. They don't sound as good as the Dared MP-5's speaker outputs, and seem underpowered. The K1000 actually sounds OK from the MP-5's headphone port, too. This requires using the Grado 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter and the 6.3mm to XLR adapter with the K1000, a less than optimal configuration.

 Using the RS-1, the buzz at zero volume and no music playing is slight and not that bad. At max volume setting the buzz becomes louder.

 The speaker outputs are inactive if something is plugged into the headphone port.

 Icehawk, hope you'll like the MP-5. I don't consider it in the same category as a Zhaolu D2.0. The Zhaolu is more a DAC plus headamp, like the Lavry DA10, and the Dared MP-5 is a combination small speaker amp and headamp plus USB DAC.


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## Ericx

omg I saw the price of this headphone DAC from a local shop website and it amazed me(<$600 AUD). Considering it's a valve amp + DAC I was enticed. 
 Do you guys reckon it's a good DAC or a headphone amp? I'm considering in upgrading my av710 -> pa2v2 setup for my computer.


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## Icehawk

Well I'm about to bite - but is there anything else in the sub $350 range that might be a better choice? The Dared seems like a nice toy but I do want good sonics out of it. 

 I definitely want a DAC since I'll be hooking this up to my main PC and the vast majority of my music is in digital format. The speaker outputs aren't a big deal, I already have some lo-fi Labtec 5.1 setup that I probably won't replace in the near term.

 The only similar device I've heard is the Aria which really didn't impress me in my brief audition. Didn't seem like it had much juice.


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## GRhodes

Here's another (very favorable) write-up on this amp.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazin.../dared_mp5.htm

 I'm curious about one thing after reading that article, does the unit really come with Senn's or did they just send this guy some since he is reviewing?

 -Gary


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## Icehawk

Yes, that is one of the two online reviews linked to from the tubeamp page - but like the other it focuses almost exclusively on it as a speaker amp, which for me is the feature I'm least interested in.

 Headphones are not included.


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## ak622

Has anyone actually received the unit yet and tested it? I am interested in how it would sound. I've read the 2 reviews but I'd like to hear how head-fiers react to the sound of this unit. The features look great and the USB DAC is a definite plus.


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## Yesfan70

Wow. That thing looks pretty cool. I do like it has a built in DAC and how it would compare to the DACs in some of my players.

 The one thing that sticks out for me is the speaker outputs. I run Klipsch speakers in my HT setup, so the price is a bit tempting to upgrade my HT's 2 channel performance.


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## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_Has anyone actually received the unit yet and tested it? I am interested in how it would sound. I've read the 2 reviews but I'd like to hear how head-fiers react to the sound of this unit. The features look great and the USB DAC is a definite plus._

 


 Yes. I have one and I love it. I use my Senn HD580s (Nano source) and the sound is amazing to my ears. Plenty of volume and detail.


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## Elephas

After spending the last few days listening to the Dared MP-5, my initial impression of this amp is exceedingly positive.

 It has a warmer sound than the Lehmann BCL or AT-HA5000. Bass notes are heavier and thumpier, but not as tight or detailed. Soundstage size seems to be extended, although I'll need to do direct AB comparisons to be sure for each headphone and amp combination. It loses to the other two amps in many ways, such as detail, separation and sense of air, blackness of background and neutral tonality. However, I'm enjoying my first tube amp and the warmth and coloration of the tubes very much.

 The SA5000, K701, HF-1 and RS-1 sound very good with the MP-5. The W5000, AD2000 and L3000 also do well, but their buzz is loudest and most bothersome. The K1000 does well out of the speaker outputs with its stock tail-end cable. I haven't tried the W2002, DT880 or HD650 yet.

 I feel the MP-5 is an incredible value at around US$200, and also a great value at around US$300. Due to the headphone port's high gain, a volume-adjustable source would be preferable. In my limited experience, I have not heard a better-sounding amp in this price range.

 All listening so far has been using the CEC DA53 and Lavry DA10's XLR outputs using XLR to RCA cables.


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## Icehawk

Would swapping the tubes to better ones or 5751s help? My only plan is to drive Grados so high gain is useless for me - and anything to drop the noise floor would be a postitive.

 And the price is US $350... so not worth it to you Elephas? Any other recommendations or thoughts?

 Grr. So many options and such a wide range of prices. Damn you Head-fi!


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## Elephas

At US$350, we're getting into Xin SuperMacro3v6 and RSA Hornet territory. It would be tough for me to decide between them.

 Your call.


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## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_At US$350, we're getting into Xin SuperMacro3v6 and RSA Hornet territory. It would be tough for me to decide between them.

 Your call. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 But the MP-5 beats both of them in the appearance dept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It looks so beautiful. I'm glad that I'm in the group buy with jjcha for $300.


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## Icehawk

Yes, but neither inlcude a DAC which I would think would be helpful with my rig since the vast majority of my listening is sourced from my PC, no? I'd think it would be a nice SQ increase to get off the soundcard and get direct audio - although the one DAC (Aria) I played with for a few minutes at a meet didn't really seem to do much. Maybe I should just try something even cheaper like the Zhaolu and see if that is an improvement over my current "setup".

 What about a tube roll?

 James you have a PM.


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## GRhodes

I missed out on the ones that jjcha had but found one for sale by a head-fi'er that is a couple weeks old. Should be here any time now. Looking forward to it very much.


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## Icehawk

Ah, you were the lucky one to grab it - I saw it after you had already done the deal, dang!

 More impressions! Please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, I'd love to hear comments on the technical merits, parts, etc. For some reason I thought folks would be more interested in this amp then they are.

 Still want to know about tube rolling/5751s too.


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## ak622

Thats the exact reason I am interested in the unit as well. I am using my laptop as my main source so I am looking at obtaining one with a DAC. But it seems alot of people are fans of the MicroDAC and MicroAMP combo but that costs significantly more than the Aria or MP5. So have you decided to buy the amp yet? 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icehawk* 
_Yes, but neither inlcude a DAC which I would think would be helpful with my rig since the vast majority of my listening is sourced from my PC, no? I'd think it would be a nice SQ increase to get off the soundcard and get direct audio - although the one DAC (Aria) I played with for a few minutes at a meet didn't really seem to do much. Maybe I should just try something even cheaper like the Zhaolu and see if that is an improvement over my current "setup".

 What about a tube roll?

 James you have a PM._


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## gusangora

I had sent a note to the Australian distributor, advising that I believe the MP5 to be under-powered for my Sennheiser HD650. He received a response from DARED as follows:
 "If you want use Sennheiser HD650 match MP 5,you had better change the two resistors from 150ohm to 51ohm,see attached photo.Also we can increaseing output power to 1Watt."
 I have asked for those modifications to be made, then I will have one.
 Steve


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## Elephas

I received my RnB Audio Grace Five Two for the HD650 today and have been using the Dared MP-5 to burn it in.

 I don't consider the MP-5 underpowered for the HD650, or any other headphone I've tried with it. The K1000 may be the sole exception. Due to my lack of experience with amping the K1000, I will refrain from further comments about the MP-5 and K1000 combo.

 There is also a buzz with the HD650. Depending on the music, it can be noticeable and annoying during quieter passages. The buzz results in a noisier background, less details and resolution, and a significantly more muddy sound compared to the Lehmann BCL.

 Using the HD650/G52, the difference between the Dared and Lehmann is great enough that using the Lavry DA10 with the Dared and a Moodlab non-oversampling DAC with the Lehmann still results in the Lehmann BCL producing greater details. I also tried to handicap the Lehmann further with a generic power cord and giving the Dared a Zu Birth. When compared using the same amp, the Moodlab usually loses to the Lavry DA10 in terms of details by a significant margin.

 I feel the Lehmann BCL drives the HD650 very very well, and it may be unfair to compare it with the Dared using the HD650. It's not surprising to me that the MP-5 isn't competitive.

 With other headphones, the MP-5 might have a better fighting chance.


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## ak622

Elephas: Have you ever tried the Corda Aria, MicroDAC/Amp stack, or the Firestone FubarII+amp? I am wondering how the Dared MP5 will compare to those units since the cost would be similar and provide a USB DAC + amp function. Overall, do you still think the DARED MP5 is a good value considering that the US price is around 350US and no the lower 200US from taiwan?


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## philodox

How is it as a speaker amp and when hooked up to a computer through USB?


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## ak622

Hi James: where did you buy the Dared MP5 from? I contacted the distributor off the Dared website and they informed me that they no longer sell individual units. Did you get them through a specific dealer in town or online? Thanks!



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_But the MP-5 beats both of them in the appearance dept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It looks so beautiful. I'm glad that I'm in the group buy with jjcha for $300._


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## suharsh

Where can I get the MP-5 for a good price? I checked eBay and there are prices being quoted around $500. But seems people have bought in the range of $200 to $300.


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## GRhodes

A little mini-review from a headfi newb:

 My first impressions are very good. 

 Headphone Amp: I have been using this amp with Shure IEMs but plan to get some decent cans very soon. It's nice with my E2cs, but the amp really shows the limitations of my Shures. Really wasn't my main intent for use of the unit, but I think I am changing my mind.

 Speakers: I tried two sets of speakers with the amp and both sounded great! First I tried a small pair of Klipsh 1.1s that I use for my rear channels. Sounded pretty good, but again, the speaker limitations became obvious. Then I hooked up my mains. A very old (circa early 1980s) pair of Advent 1Loudspeakers. The Dared MP-5 was a clear improvement over my Yamaha HTR 5550 that I mostly use for my home theatre. I will definitely be using this combo going forward for music listening.

 DAC: Well, here is my only negative. I can't seem to get this function to work right. I am playing my music using both Windows Media and Winamp, and in both cases I have to turn up the amp volume to full to hear anything at all. Will keep messing around with it and try some of my other computers. All in all though, I keep the majority of my music on my MP3 player so this function is not vital for me at all. Does my sound card affect this at all? Anyone have any tips on what to check out?

 Source (other than my PC) was a Creative Zen Touch 40Gig MP3 player. Music was a little bit of anything. I found that jazz and vocals sounded quite good, while harder rock was lacking. The speed of the music seemed to have an effect (faster was worse). Stevie Nicks' Bella Donna and any Nina Simone sounded perfect and the ranges of those songs seemed to pair well with the amp.


 edit: PS- Use the provided white gloves! That mirror finish is very sensative.


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## Elephas

GRhodes, it's good to see other MP-5 owners' impressions. Using WinXP, the MP-5 should appear as another sound device, "USB Speakers." When you plug it in, the driver should automatically load and "USB Speakers" is shown in the sound control panel. A sound card shouldn't affect these settings. Check that the main volume control is at maximum, as well as the secondary Wave volume control. Also, I believe Windows Media Player and Winamp have their own volume controls.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_Elephas: Have you ever tried the Corda Aria, MicroDAC/Amp stack, or the Firestone FubarII+amp? I am wondering how the Dared MP5 will compare to those units since the cost would be similar and provide a USB DAC + amp function. Overall, do you still think the DARED MP5 is a good value considering that the US price is around 350US and no the lower 200US from taiwan?_

 

I've heard the Corda Aria, but not its USB DAC. I haven't heard anything by HeadRoom. I've spend very limited time with a Firestone Cute Beyond amp, and haven't heard the Fubar II USB DAC.

 I haven't used the MP-5's DAC much, just tested to make sure it works. Likewise, I haven't used it with speakers. I don't have small bookshelf-type speakers, only large floorstanders that are not as suitable for the MP-5.


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## ak622

Same thing here.. I contacted the distributor where people seemed to have bought theri MP-5's last month and was advised that he isn't selling single units anymore and to check ebay or audiogon. I did that same as you and all the prices are 500ish... I wonder if anyone has found any dealers that sell for around the intro price..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suharsh* 
_Where can I get the MP-5 for a good price? I checked eBay and there are prices being quoted around $500. But seems people have bought in the range of $200 to $300._

 

Elephas: oh ok, I've been looking at teh Firestone FUBAR + amp combo as well since the price will be much cheaper than the 500 going price for the MP-5 now. . What was your impression with the cute beyond?


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## GRhodes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_GRhodes, it's good to see other MP-5 owners' impressions. Using WinXP, the MP-5 should appear as another sound device, "USB Speakers." When you plug it in, the driver should automatically load and "USB Speakers" is shown in the sound control panel. A sound card shouldn't affect these settings. Check that the main volume control is at maximum, as well as the secondary Wave volume control. Also, I believe Windows Media Player and Winamp have their own volume controls._

 

Thanks Elphas. I found the problem thanks to you. When the MP-5 is plugged into the USB my main control volume was changing to one called "Speaker" and it was defaulted at 50%. Problem solved.

 Also, to add one further observation, I do wish that the USB plugged into the back, rather than the front. Really doesn't make much sense to me, but it's also not a big problem at all though.


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## Icehawk

Yes, that was the one design decision that make me go


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## Elephas

I think the USB port in the front is OK in some cases if the MP-5 is used with a laptop. With most PC setups, I agree a rear port would be better.

 I only had very limited time with a Cute Beyond amp, and it was several months ago. I can only say I wasn't impressed with it, but it had stiff competition vs. three other amps I had at the time: Lehmann BCL, SuperMacro-3v3 and RSA Hornet.


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## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_I think the USB port in the front is OK in some cases if the MP-5 is used with a laptop. With most PC setups, I agree a rear port would be better.

 I only had very limited time with a Cute Beyond amp, and it was several months ago. I can only say I wasn't impressed with it, but it had stiff competition vs. three other amps I had at the time: Lehmann BCL, SuperMacro-3v3 and RSA Hornet._

 

Thanks for the impressions Elephas, has it get any better since you have a little more time to burn it in. I wonder if tubes rolling will make it even better and may be less of the buzz noise.


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## Elephas

Using the K701, there is no longer a buzz/hum at minimum volume. It begins to appear around 11 o'clock on the volume knob, and increases from there. I'm very pleased with this development, and will probably use the K701 the most with the MP-5's headphone port.

 The buzz at minimum volume is still present using the W5000, though.


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## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_Using the K701, there is no longer a buzz/hum at minimum volume. It begins to appear around 11 o'clock on the volume knob, and increases from there. I'm very pleased with this development, and will probably use the K701 the most with the MP-5's headphone port.

 The buzz at minimum volume is still present using the W5000, though._

 


 I was doing some reading on the MP-5 and there are some differences between the US and over-sea version

  Quote:


 Why does the MP-5 sound so good (very good transient response, precisely details, incredible soundstage and very high-resolution)? Because it is specially designed and includes (US version only):

 * High quality E-Core
 * power Transformer; Gold PCB
 * (print circuit board, Dared had tried silver and copper PCBs, and pure point-to-point wire. The gold PCB performs best!), no point-to-point wires, no messy and lengthy wires in this amp (minimized the electric-magneto effect - pure sound!) Key resistors:
 * AB- Allen Bradley NOS resistors (US made) --- US verion only Rubycon
 * (Japan made) coupling capacitors -- US version only. Nippon/Nichico (Japan made)
 * filter and bypass capacitors HT
 * volume pot (Taiwan made, audiophile grade) and pure (100%) silver wires (shield) from inputs to the volume pot, all solders are non-lead copper/silver. Fast Fuji diodes
 * (Japan made) BB PCM2702E DAC chip
 * (US made) (DAC - Digital-Analog-Converter), and Philips TDA7265 chip Line Inputs:
 * gold RCA analog input (on back) for CD or DVD or tuner or tape, or iPod/MP3/mp4, etc. USB input (front): for your Computer or MP3/MP4/iPod
 * Ceramic Gold tube socket
 * Headphone output (front), and
 * 4 or 8 Ohm speakers outputs (max
 * 13 watts per channel, SS power output - directly coupling IC, no output coupling capacitor -- extremely flat frequency response with THD < 0.2 at full power) Audiophile type tube:
 * 12AX7 (Shuguang) preamp and buffer -- US version only. Non-US version uses other type tubes Cat's eye tube metering for power output (Shuguang)
 * Soft start 
 

Elephas can you tell me which version did you get? I wonder if if make a difference as far as the buzz/hum noise that you hear.


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## Elephas

According to the seller, I got the US version. It only included an English-language user manual.

 I don't know for sure, though. We'll need someone who definitely got a US version to compare with mine.

 Based on the price difference, I would assume I got the non-US version.


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## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_According to the seller, I got the US version. It only included an English-language user manual.

 I don't know for sure, though. We'll need someone who definitely got a US version to compare with mine.

 Based on the price difference, I would assume I got the non-US version._

 

Check the tubes is it 12AX7? if it s then you probably got the US version


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## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_Using the K701, there is no longer a buzz/hum at minimum volume. It begins to appear around 11 o'clock on the volume knob, and increases from there._

 

Glad to hear it, I just had my Dared dropped off shortly ago, and out of the box the buzz is pretty noticable with my frankensenns when the music goes silent. I have to say, at least on this setup, I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound, better than my impressions of the headroom millet (the only tube/hybrid I've listened to for more than 10 seconds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It will be interesting to try it with my SA5000s, though my primary hope is that it will work well as a speaker amp for my computer setup.

 I am also interested to hear how different tubes work out...


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## Icehawk

Bummer, the buzz makes this a no-go for me. I'd REALLY love for someone knowledgeable to take a look and see if it is a simple fix, tube roll, etc that could cure/curb this since otherwise I'm ready to go for it.


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## devwild

Well, I brought it home, and with the HD650s I am currently borrowing, the noise floor is more subdued than it was at work, in volume, nature, and fluctuation, so apparently it was getting some bad power or EMI when I initially set it up (at work, on lunch break, in a hurry)

 With the K701s the noise is extremely quiet, moreso than the 650s, and well within my tollerances. Oddly, it takes more volume to drive the 701s on this amp than the 650s. On my aria they are about equal. The AKGs really are a strange beast to drive.

 With the SA5000s the noise is significant and not really conductive to that as a solution unless I can find a way to get rid of the hiss (which I would like to because initial listening left intriguing results).

 The gain on this amp is too high for me to effectively use my microdac or CD player strait into it because of the stepped attenuator - even with my speakers, optimal volume is hidden in the first 4 notches of the SA (this is why I hate SAs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Due to differences in performance at different volumes it seems that in any case this amp would be happier with a good passive preamp in front of it to optimize levels. Unfortunately I have none so I'm using the internal USB DAC for now which can be controlled with my computer's system volume, unlike the microdac.

 I won't comment on sound further until I've used it more. Jazz and orchestral music sound very cool though through my speakers, and it seems to pair pretty well with the K701s (like some beautiful experiment in midrange).


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_Check the tubes is it 12AX7? if it s then you probably got the US version_

 

The lettering on the big tube is very faded and I can't make out much. There is an 81 and then a 12.

 The lettering on the two small tubes are clear. In Chinese characters "Beijing", below that a star, and below the star 6N1.

 I'm only hearing a slight buzz with the SA5000 now. It seems to be lower than before. It's not that bad up to the 12 o'clock position on the volume knob.

 I think the SA5000 sounds good with the Dared MP-5, along with the K701.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_The gain on this amp is too high for me to effectively use my microdac or CD player strait into it because of the stepped attenuator..._

 

I'm going to correct my own slip-up here, as it's not actually an SA, it's a pot, but the knob turns in steps. I would much rather have a smooth pot...


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_The lettering on the big tube is very faded and I can't make out much. There is an 81 and then a 12.

 The lettering on the two small tubes are clear. In Chinese characters "Beijing", below that a star, and below the star 6N1.

 I'm only hearing a slight buzz with the SA5000 now. It seems to be lower than before. It's not that bad up to the 12 o'clock position on the volume knob.

 I think the SA5000 sounds good with the Dared MP-5, along with the K701._

 


 Elephas,

 I think the 6N1 tubes are for the non-us version. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I should be getting mine sometime today that if I can catch the mailman on time


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_I think the 6N1 tubes are for the non-us version. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I should be getting mine sometime today that if I can catch the mailman on time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are correct.


----------



## Icehawk

devwild - I'm guessing you are in the US but I don't know, which version do you have?


----------



## jamesp

I got home in time for the delivery from the mailman. It is even better looking in person then on pictures. I only had time to test it a little with the K1K. There was no buzz noise at all. I listened to "heart- crazy on you" which usually give me a pretty good bass thump. At first there was no bass at all, the high and mids were decent then I waited for the amp to warm up a little more and the bass came in nice and clean, as good as the PPX3 SLAM. The volume on the MP-5 is really good for the K1K, with the SLAM I had to turn it all ther way pass the 3 o'clock position to get decent sound, with the mp-5 it was good at around 10-11 o'clock and way too loud if I turn it pass the 12 o'clock position. So far I really like to way it looks and sounds. Will get back with more info once I have more time to audition other headphones with it.


----------



## ak622

James: you seem to be quite impressed with the unit from your initial impressions. Are you using it via the USB connection by any chance? Also, where did you purchase the unit from? Thanks!


----------



## jjcha

Yeah, just got mine as well. 

 I'll hold off on the finer critique of its sonics, but yes, straight out of the box, the Dared MP-5 does fine driving the K 1000.

 Man it's tiny. I like it. I'm very pleased so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jjcha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_James: you seem to be quite impressed with the unit from your initial impressions. Are you using it via the USB connection by any chance? Also, where did you purchase the unit from? Thanks!_

 

I've got mine through the USB connection. Sounds fine. I'll do more comparisons and critical listening later.

 James was part of a small group buy I put together. Looks like the Dared distributor auctions them on audiogon periodically (there's one right now). But he's only selling in batches of 10. 

 What I did was watch one of the auctions then email the winner to see if he wanted to sell a few. If you're serious about it, I can send you his email address, our guy might still have a few available.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_James: you seem to be quite impressed with the unit from your initial impressions. Are you using it via the USB connection by any chance? Also, where did you purchase the unit from? Thanks!_

 

 I have not used it with the USB connection yet, I will try that out tonight once I get home from work. I went in on a group buy with jjcha so you will have to as him
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icehawk* 
_devwild - I'm guessing you are in the US but I don't know, which version do you have?_

 

Yes, I'm in the US. I was in the same batch as jjcha/jamesp. The US version of the amp uses 2x 12AX7B Shuguang tubes, and the 6E2 "cat's eye" tube. 

 I am really enjoying the amp for listening to classical and other instrumental music through my speakers (no buzz through the speaker amp). It's a new sound to me so I'm still getting used to it.

 The USB DAC built in seems pretty decent... one oddity is that the signature changes based on the computer's system volume vs the volume of the amp dramatically - the higher the system volume, the brighter the signature. I'm finding the magic point for me is with the system volume a couple notches down from max. 

 This is also the first time I have ever had a strong impulse to crank the speaker volume fairly loud for classical music, and have it send shivers down my spine instead of annoy my eardrums. 

 Definitely a different experience for me...


----------



## jjcha

Hmm, the photo gods aren't with me today. Not the best pr*n, but here are a few shots:






 Grace m902 for a sense of size






 Hugo likes it better than the T-Amp. But he never liked the T-Amp.











 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Icehawk

James, if you can toss your SR325i on there for me I'd really appreciate it!

 Dang, Hugo has some expensive taste


----------



## xand1x

Great photos jjcha, the amp looks quite classy; that says alot for what $300 can buy


----------



## ak622

Hi Jason,

 Yes I am interested in buying a unit and if your guy still has one available, I wouldn't mind picking it up. I've been looking off ebay or another dealer that the distributor suggested and it was around $500US. After reading that other people got much better deals than that, I've been tryign to look for that. By any chance have you used the Firestone cute (FUBAR IIand Beyond amp?) series? I've been looking at that, Aria and this unit. I was leaning towards to the Firestone because of a contact in Taiwan thus able to get a better price on that. If you have any experience, how does this unit compare? Thanks!

 Andrew

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I've got mine through the USB connection. Sounds fine. I'll do more comparisons and critical listening later.

 James was part of a small group buy I put together. Looks like the Dared distributor auctions them on audiogon periodically (there's one right now). But he's only selling in batches of 10. 

 What I did was watch one of the auctions then email the winner to see if he wanted to sell a few. If you're serious about it, I can send you his email address, our guy might still have a few available.

 Best,

 -Jason_


----------



## Elephas

jjcha, your photos look good. Is the trim around the two small tubes wood? Mine has brushed metal trim.

 Just a reminder, the mirror finish can scratch easily. These were included for a reason. (click to view)


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_Is the trim around the two small tubes wood? Mine has brushed metal trim._

 

It's also brushed metal on the US version.


----------



## GRhodes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_jjcha, your photos look good. Is the trim around the two small tubes wood? Mine has brushed metal trim._

 

I think that's the brushed metal. It's the brass color that looks odd in the pic I think.


----------



## Icehawk

Weird, it does totally look like wood in the pics. That's what I thought it was, too bad that'd be pretty sweet.


----------



## ak622

Just wanted to thank Elephas, James for answering my questions and Jason for pointing me in the direction to pick up one of these units.. But right now Im not sure if my wallet is mad at you tho... hahaha I can totally see why everyone writes "sorry about your wallet" since I've spent alot more than I was expecting to since lurking and joining last month.. Well, when the unit arrives I'll try to give my impression on it. Thanks again everyone!

 Andrew


----------



## jjcha

Well, I've spent about a day with the K 1000 and Dared. We'll see how it develops as it continues to burn in.

 I've only been using it with its built in DAC via USB. I like how the sound is clean, gives a sense of power (though it's not really that powerful, compared to the big boy K 1000 amps) and has a certain amount of fullness to it. 

 So far I find the sound coloured, and there's an impact on the timbre of all the instruments and voices. Is it hideously bad? I dunno. But it's not right. It's also interesting that the Dared has a hardness to the sound I wasn't expecting (heh, maybe from the false conception that a tube should sound softer than SS). I still get a taste of the metallic nature that the K 1000 can have when not properly driven/sourced.

 Heh, anyway, don't think I've given up on this baby yet. Once it's burned in more, I'll have some more thoughts, also will mix/match sources. We may yet make this a nice little $300 amp for the K 1000.

 It does drive my small B&W bookshelf speakers better than my Denon mini system.

 More thoughts as time goes on. Eventually, I'll swap in the HP1 to give its headphone jack a whirl.

 Heh, yes the colour in the photos is off, it is brushed metal. Also yeah, heh, I'll be dusting this baby very very carefully.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## devwild

mmm, bask in the warmth of the tube...


----------



## devwild

A closeup of a Shuguang tube:





 And the cat's eye in action:


----------



## devwild

OK, last one, I promise, just because this one took a little more effort...





 ...a sharp eye might notice the preamp tubes have changed. More on that later, right now back to listening.


----------



## jjcha

Don't stop mate, your photos are awesome. Better than mine.

 You should post your thoughts on the tuberolling for everyone.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## smeggy

Looks like an interesting, fun little amp.


----------



## jamesp

A little more on the dared. I gave it a good listen with the 325i, I really like the 325i with this amp, the high is still there but not fatigue, the bass is good too no buzz or anything. I didn't like it at all with the HD600. More later. By the way, those are awesome pictures devwild, tell me more about tubes rolling please


----------



## Elephas

It's good to see several more Dared MP-5 owners. Now I don't feel so "amp lonely" anymore (not having any fellow members with the same amp).

 I'd also appreciate info about tuberolling the MP-5 from more experienced members. Since my unit is the non-US version, changing the tubes may result in a greater improvement.

 jamesp, the SA5000 is not too bad paired with the MP-5.


----------



## jjcha

At maybe 50-75 hours-ish

 Well, I'll be honest, so far I've only been using the Dared with the K 1000 and its internal USB DAC from my computer. And as lan would say, "it's not ready for prime time." Actually it's far from ready from prime time. While I like the sense of power it can give, there's just fatiguing nature to the sound. It's a very hard sound. This is the first time I actually don't want to have the headphones on my head while at the computer.

 So my thoughts were this is surprisingly untube-like with the K 1000. It sounds more like solid-state to me, and not the good stuff.

 I was wondering whether it was the amp stage or the DAC. I think it's time for a test against the modded Grace m902.






*Darn it, which connector went into the Dared and which the Grace?*

 So in this photo the Grace is the source for both its own headphone jacks and the Dared MP-5. I level matched by ear (probably not perfect, but close enough) and didn't pay too much attention to which cable I was plugged into at the time. 

 It was a lot better. Right now I'm blaming most of what I didn't like, the fatigue, the hardness on the USB DAC. 

 With the two comparison rigs, the differences became a lot more subtle, but even when just trying to guess by not looking at the connectors, it was easy to know which amp I was plugged into.

 The Dared MP-5 sounded a lot better than it did when I was just using its own USB DAC. But it still had that hard edge. The Grace had a nice smoothness and liquidity to it. Again, the Dared as an amp just sounded like not so good solid state. Surprisingly, I got more of the power I like out of the Dared. But I'm starting to really not like the fatigue I get from hardness, even though it was vastly improved by using the smoother/rounder source. 

 Okay. Well, will need more time. Lots of things going on here. Burn-in. Tuberolling. The interconnects I used (they were Grover Ultimate Reference 2, so a bit brighter/faster silver interconnects). Power. Source. The Dared is still struggling with the K 1000 right now, but the game is far from over.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Don't stop mate, your photos are awesome. Better than mine.

 You should post your thoughts on the tuberolling for everyone._

 

Thanks for the kind words. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As you can tell I was having fun playing with it.

 Away from the visuals though and back to the sonics. 

 FYI, I am continuing to use this amp primarilly with my computer rig speakers (Onix Rocket RS250MKIIs), and some with the K701s as well. My ears are relatively sensative to pressure, and I have started listening to speakers more lately to reduce ear fatigue (and probably long term damage even though I listen at lower than average volumes). That is why I was interested in the MP-5 to begin with.

 Also, one more bit of background - I have minimal experience with tube and hybrid tube amps. I've spent the most time with the headroom millet, and even that was at a meet, plus some minimal time with other low-priced tube amps. Honestly I haven't liked any of them, as they were too fluid, lost cohesiveness quickly on compex passages, and were colored in the wrong places. I haven't heard a single high end tube amp, so I can't compare.

 My music tastes have broadened though, and I though at this price point, with a speaker amp, the MP-5 would be a nice piece of gear to have around...

 Stock sound of the Dared MP-5 was an interesting show of tube sound. Certainly there was more fluidity to the sound than a solid state amp, a rich midrange, and tamed, but still present highs. Mid/upper bass were actually on the strong side... with the K701s it worked pretty well, but with the SA5000s it sounded a bit bloated on some music, and with the H650s I'm borrowing, it defintely added to much to the already strong bass of the 650, and sounded very loose. My biggest annoyance with the stock configuration was that there was a point in the upper bass region that consistantly hit with a dull thump, which contrasted starkly with the rich lower bass and midrange around it in drumlines and the like.

 The stock configuration works very well for soft jazz, piano, and classical. It definitely presents a rich, "tubey", organic sound that really is pleasant and engaging. I spent several nights this week falling asleep to cello concertos and symphonies. Like my brief previous tube experiences, cohesiveness broke down on alternative/rock. The soundstage and highs however were significantly better than memory served (for example, I felt the millet had too heavilly rolled off highs).

 I came to the tentative conclusion that I would keep the Dared and use it as a compliment to a future digital amp for my speakers, and aria for my headphones, switching as my music moods change, which is frequent as of late.

 So after a little less than a week of listening, and probably not quite enough burn-in time to represent a thurough impression, I received a matched pair of Sovtek 12AX7-LPS tubes in the mail yesterday. Forget patience, I was too curious, and did the swap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Immediately, I noticed a marked improvement in detail and speed. The high end increased in presence a bit. The bass presence reduced slightly, but gained better extension and flatter response - most importantly, the dull thud effect was reduced significantly. Overall the spectrum seemed more balanced. A little of the fluidity was lost... really, these tubes seem like a step towards full solid state, but still with a rich midrange, and texture on solo instruments. 

 The range of music this configuration works with is broader, as cohesiveness is stronger on all but heavy rock, but clearly there are still limits to what the amp can handle. The floor noise is still present, unlistenable with with SA5000s, but only barely audible with the K701s or speakers.

 With the Sovtek tubes, the MP-5, to my ears, has an impressive synergy with the K01s. This was a big, pleasant surprise to me. The midrange is beautiful, and the bass is given proper extension and emphasis that sits within my comfort area. The high end is clean and fairly balanced. The music has a life to it I haven't experienced previously with the K701. Prior to this I felt the 650s had an edge on the 701s with jazz, but in this configuration the 701s trounce, with proper bass emphasis, but better control over it than the 650s. Switching back to the Aria, which is considered to pair well with the 701, sounds downright anemic if I don't allow time for my ears to adjust.

 Now my thoughts are changing... I'm actually considering selling the Aria, and not bothering with a digital speaker amp. For my computer setup I was hoping to build a more musical and rich sound system. My HT setup and SA5000 rig give me all the detail and balance I could ask for (on a budget), and I wanted something different. I may have found that with the MP-5 - for both speakers and headphones - at a very reasonable price.

 While I have tried the MP-5 off and on with the microdac, which works fine, I've mainly stuck to the internal DAC so I can have more control over the volume due to the gain and pot steps.

 All my comments should of course be taken with the grain of salt they are worth. If the system changes further with burn in I will comment on it here. And even my own opinions change...


----------



## jjcha

Cool, it's fun to have someone else exploring this amp as well!

 Just a real quick note that any inconsistencies between our experiences probably can largely be explained by the fact I'm using the K 1000 and devwild's using speakers or regular headphones. I've only tried it briefly with my speakers and headphones, and I suspect my opinions on the Dared with those may be significantly different than those with the K 1000. 

 We'll see, as I'll get there eventually, but the K 1000 is a mighty demanding mistress... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man why are all my headphones (and past girlfriends) so damn high maintenance...

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Just a real quick note that any inconsistencies between our experiences probably can largely be explained by the fact I'm using the K 1000 and devwild's using speakers or regular headphones._

 

Yes, and you've pointed out how high you have to adjust the volume with the K1000s compared to my experience, which certainly has an effect on the sound with dared.

 Some of our opinions may parallel more than it looks at first sight as well. The "thud effect" I described definitely adds a hardness to the sound, and was fatiguing with headphones, that's why it was a key issue for me.


----------



## jjcha

Yeah, I'll try that, when I put it back in the computer rig with USB. So far I've been at max computer volume and adjusting only with the Dared. Might be different if I drop the first and raise the second...

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_jamesp, the SA5000 is not too bad paired with the MP-5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I'm glad you enjoy it Elephas


----------



## gusangora

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_A little more on the dared. I gave it a good listen with the 325i, I really like the 325i with this amp, the high is still there but not fatigue, the bass is good too no buzz or anything. *I didn't like it at all with the HD600*. More later. By the way, those are awesome pictures devwild, tell me more about tubes rolling please
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please elaborate?


----------



## devwild

After another full day of running the Sovtek tubes, the amp is no longer on the bass-heavy side, it's now very close to, perhaps slightly under, the microdac -> Aria combo in lower bass volume with the K701. While I miss some of that initial bass impact, it is very clean, dynamic, and controlled bass with the K701s, moreso than on the Aria. The midrange is fuller and richer than the Aria which is what has me currently quite engaged. Possibly the result of this, the soundstage with the K701s is far more open sounding with the MP-5, something I've found a bit lacking since I first bought them. This is _much_ more how I expected AKGs to sound.

 On the flip side, the bass seems slightly under the MP-5 in volume but likewise better controlled on the Aria with the HD650s... hmm. I noted from Elephas' picture of the internals that the MP-5 has 150ohm output impedance on the headphone jack and measured to confirm the same is true on the American version. I think this may be a large part of the inverse differences I am seeing between the two amps and cans.

 The K701s are still the only cans I have at hand that don't exibit a significant noise floor with the MP-5.

 Hopefully the tubes don't lose anything critical with further burn-in, I like them pretty well where they are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It will be interesting to hear how people fare with other tubes. For now, I'm quite happy with the Sovteks unless I hear of something more intriguing. I'm sure I could significantly reduce the value of my investment swapping tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Aside from the fullness of the sound compared to the aria, I can't especially pinpoint with clarity any more what makes this amp a tube/hybrid amp. The line with solid state is blurred, but due to the performance with the K701s and speakers, I don't much care. I have been glued to my desk all day long except for meals, listening to rock, alternative, jazz, classical, big band, soundtracks, electronica...

 The amp is certainly not perfect, and I wouldn't expect it to be. I wouldn't recommend it to someone outright unless they thought they had a good use for it (particularly the speaker/headphone amp combo aspect), and were willing to work with its weaknesses. But I personally have gotten past just the visuals and am falling for its sonics... in my setup.

 and I am very curious to hear what can be done with mods...

 slippery slope...


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gusangora* 
_Please elaborate?_

 

IMHO the dared MP-5 did not pair well with the HD600 since the HD600 already heavy on bass. The dared seems to add more bass and make it even darker, does that make sense?.

 I just order some Groove Tubes 12ax7. As I recalled, I really enjoy those tubes with the MG head Mark II I used to owned.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_IMHO the dared MP-5 did not pair well with the HD600 since the HD600 already heavy on bass. The dared seems to add more bass and make it even darker, does that make sense?.

 I just order some Groove Tubes 12ax7. As I recalled, I really enjoy those tubes with the MG head Mark II I used to owned._

 

Did you hear any noise with the 600s?

 Let us know how the groove tubes work out.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_Did you hear any noise with the 600s?

 Let us know how the groove tubes work out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 JYes I start to hear teh buzz/hum when I turn the knob to about the 12 o'clock position for both the 325i and the HD600. I certainly will let you know once the groove tubes get here


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_JYes I start to hear teh buzz/hum when I turn the knob to about the 12 o'clock position for both the 325i and the HD600. I certainly will let you know once the groove tubes get here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm, but not at zero eh. I guess you got lucky and got a quiet one. The buzz you get when you turn the volume up is different from the one I hear at 0. The one you get at high volume is more of a typical EMI type problem that's coming down the signal path, and found on other amps as well - it also carries along the EMI noises that come from my powermac, such as every time there is activity on the NIC or Display (grr, no, apple does NOT really make high quality machines). It's also above comfortable listening levels so not really much of an issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The other noise that I am hearing is seperate, and constant, anywhere on the dial, including at zero, as Elephas described.

 Well it's good to know that it's not a universal problem with the design (kind of), which means it should be fixable for those of us less fortunate.

 I just plugged in my SA5000s, and I don't know if it's just my imagination but it seemed quieter tonight.

 Enjoy, you lucky person.


----------



## jjcha

I expected buzz from Elephas' reviews, so wasn't surprised when I heard it with the SA5k, Qualia 010 and ATH-W10VTG. I'll try them with the Grado HP1000 later. I think, for the most part, buzz is a fact of life with the headphone amp. 

 I thought an impedence adapter (just the Ety ER4P/S one, so not a huge jump) might help, but it does not remove the buzz with any of the aformentioned.

 I'll give it time to understand what I'm hearing, but on brief listen, out of the headphone jack with these cans, I did not find the colouration/hardness I complained about with the K 1000.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jjcha

Oh, might have spoken too soon. I made my prior statements when I was using the Dared with another source. 

 I hooked it up to my laptop computer via USB and am hearing the hardness again with the HP2. Kind of odd given I don't associate the HP2 with having a hard sound. I really don't like this sound. I'm close to giving up on the DAC in this thing.

 Devwild, you've had luck changing the volume level? I've tried it with the computer at about 60%, 80% and 100% volume, and adjusting the Dared appropriately, but it doesn't seem to help much so far.

 What software are you using? I'm just using iTunes with the standard USB Speakers driver that pops up in WinXP. I'm sure there's some kmixer goodness going on. Anyone have any other ideas before I just 

 Dang. I had to take the HP2 off right now. This hardness/strain is really physically uncomfortable.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I think, for the most part, buzz is a fact of life with the headphone amp._

 

I wouldn't stand for any buzz myself... but everyone has their own concessions they make I suppose.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Devwild, you've had luck changing the volume level? I've tried it with the computer at about 60%, 80% and 100% volume, and adjusting the Dared appropriately, but it doesn't seem to help much so far._

 

I noticed it primarilly with the stock tubes. Originally, there was a distinct increase in the brightness when the USB DAC volume (system volume control on the computer, OSX in this case) was set to full. The brightness would decrease as I turned down the dac volume and consequently increased the amp volume. I don't really notice that effect anymore when I was messing around with it last night. Maybe I was imagining it, maybe it's the tubes, or maybe it's burn-in, I'm not sure.

 I always leave iTunes' volume at full.

 Control wise, the very bottom of the pot is a little weak, but that's typical. It's a problem however with a line level input and the K701s though because I can't get out of the weak area. That's why I still use the internal DAC. Wish I had a Lavry like Elephas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really wish I understood what you mean by hardness. (or maybe I don't, because then I would start picking at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Like my new laptop wallpaper? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Click the thumbnail for 1600x1200 version.


----------



## jjcha

Just a few more thoughts on the Dared. I spent a few hours today listening with both the K 1000 and some SA5K/W10VTG. I also tossed in my lan modded Overture.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_Like my brief previous tube experiences, cohesiveness broke down on alternative/rock. The soundstage and highs however were significantly better than memory served (for example, I felt the millet had too heavilly rolled off highs)._

 

lan came by today and gave the Dared a brief listen, both with its internal USB DAC and with the modded Overture. We both agree that one of the interesting characteristics of the Dared is its soundstaging. I think it's an interesting one - it is 3D and not flat like many other amps. But at the same time, I'm critical as it doesn't sound as natural a 3D soundstaging that I'm used to. This might be just because I'm used to other approaches, but it just seems unbalanced to me. But it certainly has something to offer here.

 It also does well with treble. lan thought that out of the cans I have (K 1000, SA5k, W10 VTG) the SA5k was the one to work with. But I don't know. It's too fatiguing for me, unless I use the Grace m902 as source. The modded Overture + Dared + K 1000 really tires my ears. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_While I have tried the MP-5 off and on with the microdac, which works fine, I've mainly stuck to the internal DAC so I can have more control over the volume due to the gain and pot steps._

 

Hmm, what software are you using? I find my Overture (the predecessor to your MicroDAC) responds fine to computer based volume control. I now understand though the criticisms with the pot. The Overture (and MicroDAC, I imagine) is very high gain. Heh, lan wants his volume at between the 2nd and 3rd click on the stepped attenuator with the Overture. I'm happy with it at 4 or 5. In other words, with the Overture, damn it's loud!! 

 I'm glad we're both having different experiences with the Dared. I wish I could hear the K 701 setup you're hearing it with. So far I'm not 100% decided yet, but I'm close to concluding it is, in its stock configuration, unlistenable with the K 1000 and its USB DAC. This is surprising to me, given I can listen to the K 1000 out of just about anything. But, there is yet more burn-in and tuberolling to try.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_ So far I'm not 100% decided yet, but I'm close to concluding it is, in its stock configuration, unlistenable with the K 1000 and its USB DAC. This is surprising to me, given I can listen to the K 1000 out of just about anything. But, there is yet more burn-in and tuberolling to try.

 Best,

 -Jason_

 


 Jason,

 Have you try to listen to the K1K without using the USB DAC?


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Hmm, what software are you using? I find my Overture (the predecessor to your MicroDAC) responds fine to computer based volume control. I now understand though the criticisms with the pot. The Overture (and MicroDAC, I imagine) is very high gain. Heh, lan wants his volume at between the 2nd and 3rd click on the stepped attenuator with the Overture. I'm happy with it at 4 or 5. In other words, with the Overture, damn it's loud!!_

 

The OSX system volume (and Windows) will not control the MicroDAC's volume. Individual application volume works, but I don't find that practical to adjust the volume with each application (especially since many reset their volume.... web browsing while listening to music can be painful....).

 I'm with lan on the levels, and around the second notch, it is definitely a weak area of the pot... There is a channel imbalance that low (again, typical), and I actually hear more distortion with the microdac at that level than the internal dac set to listen in the 9-10 oclock position.

 Related, I've been having an e-mail discussion with the american distributor about the features of the MP-5, and he commented that I may want to try some 5751 tubes, as they are lower gain. Makes me curious how the Electro-Harmonix 5751 EH tubes would fair, as they are reportadly the same basic construction as the 12AX7LPS tubes.

 Uh oh, my wallet is flinching...


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_Have you try to listen to the K1K without using the USB DAC?_

 

Here he mentions it:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_But I don't know. It's too fatiguing for me, unless I use the Grace m902 as source. The modded Overture + Dared + K 1000 really tires my ears._


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_Here he mentions it:_

 


 Sorry, my bad!!!


----------



## ak622

Those are great shots Devwild... Look at your pictures made the wait so much more painful the past few days hahaha 

 Well I got mine today and its a wonderful unit, I find it works great with my K501s.. Since I'm pretty new to headphones and my experience is only with a PA2V2, Im really impressed so far. Diana Krall's Live in Paris CD sounds so much more lively, instruments seem much more real.. I'm playing it off my laptop and using the USB DAC and to me it sounds great. Unfortunatly I don't have much experience so I can't comment on how it compares to others but I'm happy with the purchase so far... How much of burn in did you all give it before it opening up?


----------



## Icehawk

Any buzz ak622?


----------



## ak622

Hey IceHawk... Yeah I do have a slight humming sound when there is no music playing but once it starts, I don't find it noticable and don't hear it. I'm hoping its because the unit is still new and not burned in but it hasn't affect my listening experience yet. I'll try it again tonite and see if I hear the buzzing sound Jason and Devwild talked about but I might be a lucky one? Have you decided on picking one up yet? 

 Andrew


----------



## ak622

I actually have the buzzing sound that others have mentioned. Its noticeable when its a quiet passage. But generally overall it isn't bothering me too much. And I'm still impressed and happy with the amp...Andrew


----------



## Ericx

Just placed an order for one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hopefully i'll have news on the arrival soon


----------



## Icehawk

I still want one but the whole buzz thing has me concerned since my only cans are low impedance Grados. Kinda hoping someone will look at the amp/tubes and come up with a solution or a way to minimize it. I'll probably get this thing anyways next month when a friend pays off some money she owes me.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icehawk* 
_I still want one but the whole buzz thing has me concerned since my only cans are low impedance Grados. Kinda hoping someone will look at the amp/tubes and come up with a solution or a way to minimize it. I'll probably get this thing anyways next month when a friend pays off some money she owes me._

 


 I'm not sure about the buzz that people are hearing, to me the only time I hear any buzz is when there are no music and I turn the volume pass 12 o'clock may be my ears are not sensitive to the buzz/hum
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 Icehawk, by the way it sound fantastic with 325i, even better with some groove tubes rolled in.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_...even better with some groove tubes rolled in._

 

Details... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and with the K701...


----------



## GRhodes

Received my AKG K280s today from a fellow Head-Fi'er. This is my first set non-IEMs and I am pretty much a newb to this stuff, so take what I say with a grain of salt, etc. 

 With the K280s I hear absolutely no noise whatsoever. Been using it only in DAC mode so far. Still have stock tubes in it. Everything seems to work together very well to my ears. 

 Probably have about 30ish hours on my MP-5 so far. 

 I'll pull out the Zen later and try it with the cans.


----------



## GRhodes

double post


----------



## gusangora

Firstly, let me say that I am completely new to this (first headphone amp).
 Picked mine up yesterday - I had the distributor modify it by change the two resistors from 150ohm to 51ohm. This has increased the power output and made the unit better suited the Sennheiser HD650.
 At first, I found the bass to be a bit muddy but following a few hours burn-in and allowing the tubes to warm up properly, I am very impressed. Mids and highs are very good.
 There is no buzz/hum sound whatsoever.
 The only disappointment is that the USB DAC is in conflict with the output to my Cambridge Soundworks speakers. That is, I need to modify 'Control Panel' => 'Sound and Audio Devices' => 'Audio' => ' Sound Playback' => 'Default Device' and select 'USB Speakers' for the Dared MP5 and then change back to 'SB Audigy 2 Audio' for the speakers (I have SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum). This procedure also requires that I shut-down any active programs that require audio first, then change the default device, then re-open. It would be good to have simultaneous output, so there would be less mucking around.
 Except Windows Media Player - this will only play through the speakers, regardless of default sound output setting. I can not get WMP to play through the MP5. Using Windows XP Pro, SP2.
 Steve
 oh, and it looks amazing.


----------



## jjcha

Congrats on the amp, and welcome to team Dared MP-5!

 Just an update. I've lost track of the hours - I've left it on 24/7 for the last week. Also, I'm feeding it with my lan modified HeadRoom Overture. Still trying to use the K 1000 with this.

 I don't know if it's the additional burn-in or the different source, but the hardness I've been complaining about so much isn't here much anymore. Right now it is acceptable in my rig as a K 1000 amp. 

 I suspect the Dared has an interesting spaciousness to its sound. I've heard it with all the sources (internal DAC, Grace m902, Denon mini system and Overture) I've tried so far. I think this modded Overture also has a certain spaciousness to it, though I haven't quite fully tested this out. Anyway, I'm definitely hearing a nice spaciousness to the K 1000 that I didnt have out of my pre-modded Overture and modified T-amp (or shall we say, upgraded T-amp).

 Okay, this is interesting enough that it's deserving of more of an introduction. I'll be bringing this to the national meet today.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gusangora* 
_The only disappointment is that the USB DAC is in conflict with the output to my Cambridge Soundworks speakers. That is, I need to modify 'Control Panel' => 'Sound and Audio Devices' => 'Audio' => ' Sound Playback' => 'Default Device' and select 'USB Speakers' for the Dared MP5 and then change back to 'SB Audigy 2 Audio' for the speakers (I have SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum)._

 

Since I was concerned about this on my mac, I took the time to search for a quick fix which allows me to switch audio devices from a menu... I'm using SoundSource for those wondering. Some applications require a restart to switch devices, but conveniently, iTunes does not.

 On my laptop/windows it hasn't been a big concern yet, so I haven't found anything that works well. I will mention however that if you add the Volume control to your taskbar, right clicking on that is a bit quicker way to access the sound control panel. Also, there's the real lazy way of doing it by unplugging the usb device. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FWIW, foobar does not require me to restart to switch devices, just stop (not pause) and start playback again.

 Of course, the best solution is getting a set of nice speakers and plugging them into the back of the Dared, right?


----------



## jjcha

I really don't understand what happened, but now it feels like I've gone almost 180 degrees with my Dared+k1000. I've been listening to the combo for the last 3 hours or so while doing various things on the computer and it sounds darned good. I swapped the source and put in my lan modded Overture (which isn't bright, but certainly isn't afraid of treble) and that hardness is like 98% gone. I mean it's just that I might want tuberolling to give more fluidity to the sound. But right now the Dared is very acceptable with the K 1000 for a modest rig. If this is just burn-in, this is a very dramatic impact.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I really don't understand what happened, but now it feels like I've gone almost 180 degrees with my Dared+k1000. I've been listening to the combo for the last 3 hours or so while doing various things on the computer and it sounds darned good. I swapped the source and put in my lan modded Overture (which isn't bright, but certainly isn't afraid of treble) and that hardness is like 98% gone. I mean it's just that I might want tuberolling to give more fluidity to the sound. But right now the Dared is very acceptable with the K 1000 for a modest rig. If this is just burn-in, this is a very dramatic impact.

 Best,

 -Jason_

 

Jason,

 I have some groove tubes rolled in and all I can say it the brightness is gone and the warmth of mid-range and the bass region has increase some what. By the way, I also use it on the K1K


----------



## lan

Did you use the power conditioner there? Burnin can last quite a while depending. We'll see what you think in the next week of listening. You could just be tired


----------



## Meyvn

Would you try it with the USB DAC again, and see if THAT hardness is still there? Then we'll know if it's burn-in or not.


----------



## devwild

thread broken?

 hmm, there we go...


----------



## jjcha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_Did you use the power conditioner there? Burnin can last quite a while depending. We'll see what you think in the next week of listening. You could just be tired 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Heh, I put the power conditioning with the bed rig. The Dared's coming straight out of the wall, and you don't want to know what the Overture's hooked up to. 

 Still sounds pretty good. I don't think it's just the meet conditions. We'll compare with the Grace, lan modified 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 T-Amp and Dynamight (I have a balanced adapter now!) later. Right now, I'm thinking the competition is between the Dared and the Grace m902. 

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Mezevenf

Just picked up one of these for $180 USD from Taiwan.

 Loving it.


----------



## russedelic

Hi All,

 A DIY friend of mine told me that you can get truly amazing sound if you save cds to your hard drive in a "no loss/error correction" mode, then run a USB from your computer to a good DAC and then onto a headphone amp. He claims the best transport system available can't equal the stability and quality of the sound.

 Anybody know more about this? Is this Dared unit a key to this kind of set up?


----------



## Elephas

russedelic, your question is difficult to answer. It has been and will be a subject of continuing debates in the audio industry. Check the Computers-As-Source forum for more info about this topic.

 Yes, a computer-based system can sound very good. Lossless files such as FLAC are equivalent to the wav files on a Redbook CD. As for high quality sound, I believe it would require a significant financial investment to reach the level of high-end CDPs.

 I don't think the Dared MP-5's built-in USB DAC sounds good. It's a convenient option, and may suffice for some users' needs, but it is not a high-end DAC.


----------



## ak622

I agree with Elephas that MP-5 is a convience. I am running FLAC files from my laptop through the MP-5 to my K501s and it sounds good. There is detail, there is clarity, and the amp does a good job. Overall I am happy with my unit and I do recommend it because of the price and convienece. I've had mine for a little less than a week and burn-in has taken out some of the hardness and the buzzing sound is not as noticable. 

 And question to all tube rollers: after burning in the new tubes, how do you find that sound? Is it different that your initial experience with it?


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_And question to all tube rollers: after burning in the new tubes, how do you find that sound? Is it different that your initial experience with it?_

 

Absolutely, I described some of the changes in my earlier post. My MP-5 currently sounds quite similar to my aria in signature (oddly so), but with stronger/richer midrange, which seems to significantly open up the K701s. It's not quite as controlled as the aria, but at the moment I don't really care, because overall it just sounds better to me with the AKGs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With Senns it was a very different story though, probably due to the output impedance, so this comparison doesn't apply to all cans by any means.


----------



## Aryolkary

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mezevenf* 
_Just picked up one of these for $180 USD from Taiwan.

 Loving it._

 

Was it here:
http://tw.f5.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/e12594965

 How much was shipping?
 What method of payment did you use? 
 I wonder if it will cost similarly to Argentina (220v here not 110v).
 Thanks


----------



## jjcha

Someone mentioned thinking of using the Dared with the HD6x0, so I plugged mine in. Wow, it's pretty interesting, in a good way. 

 Lol, the rig is so ghetto: 

 Non-bit-perfect optical out from the computer > el cheapie Monster TOSLink optical cable > HeadRoom Overture (lan modded) > zu Pivot > Dared MP-5 > Grado 1/4th to 1/8th adapter > Black Dragon dual XLR to 1/4th adapter > Enigma Audio silver balanced XLR Sennheiser cable > HD650. 

 Everything in this rig, cables, electronics, headphones, is still burning in. 

 (I'm too lazy to swap out the Sennheiser cable, that's why all the adapters are in there).

 First of all, man, massive bass. Not super tight - I think this is partially the Dared and partially just the Senn being the Senn. It's a warm sound - very full on the bottom end. The effortlessness of the vocals is there - not super fuzzy though. I'm getting plenty of detail/dynamics - I think that's more the lan modded Overture than anything else. There is that nice spaciousness to the sound. Is it the insanely awesome spaciousness of the Noise Audio Duality + HD600? Heck no. But it's a pretty nice improvement over just say straight out of an iPod. I don't feel it's only 3 blobs anymore. I think the spaciousness is coming more from the Dared than the Overture, but we'll see.

 It's a very pleasant sound. I think I'm finally hearing its "tube" nature. Everything seems nicely rounded, in a pleasant rich kind of way. Not the technically most accurate setup at all. 

 I think I like this better than the HD650 balanced out of my Dynamight. But people ought to know, for the HD650, I don't like it with a silver cable or with the fast powerful clarity/brightness of the Dynamight. I want gear to play to strengths, and the HD650 for me is more about flowing music than my 010, for which I prefer pure resolution and detailed texture.

 I'm not hearing any buzz with the Senn. I wonder if it's because I have so much darned cabling in the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Asr

I captured a video of this amp's pulsating-tube action at the National Meet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Download it here:

vid_dared.zip


----------



## Mezevenf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aryolkary* 
_Was it here:
http://tw.f5.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/e12594965

 How much was shipping?
 What method of payment did you use? 
 I wonder if it will cost similarly to Argentina (220v here not 110v).
 Thanks_

 

Actually purchased it from a computer store in Taiwan, along with some interesting and impressive little speakers (Beston 2025A).

 Here in Australia we are also 220V, but it was still cheaper just to run a power converter rather than buy the MP5 here.


----------



## Aryolkary

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mezevenf* 
_Actually purchased it from a computer store in Taiwan, along with some interesting and impressive little speakers (Beston 2025A).

 Here in Australia we are also 220V, but it was still cheaper just to run a power converter rather than buy the MP5 here._

 

Dare I ask where is it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I searched in google and couldn't find any info on those speakers.


----------



## jjcha

I'm at school right now, but I find myself looking forward to going home and trying the Dared more with the HD650. I'm just enjoying exploring the sound I'm getting from it. Maybe it's just because I' m rediscovering the HD650 - but that's unlikely, I wasn't that thrilled about it and my Dynamight... I think I'm just enjoying exploring the HD650 with tubes. If I listen uber critically, sure, there's a lot I probably could criticize as flawed about the Dared and HD650 sound. But that's not really the point for me. It sounds good. It puts the HD650 towards a sound that is interesting and engaging. I want to listen more to familiarize myself with the strengths and weaknesses of that sound and to try and figure out where I can go with the HD650. As my first tube amp, and enjoying this process so much, for $300 I'm really pleased with this Dared pick-up. I haven't looked forward to going home just to listen to something for a while. Not too shabby.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Mezevenf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aryolkary* 
_Dare I ask where is it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I searched in google and couldn't find any info on those speakers._

 

Yea the Bestons are a big mystery. They use ribbon tweeters too.

 As for the store... I didnt buy it personally, my father got it for me. It came with a certificate from YPL Audio, which I'll assume is where its from, I will ask my dad tonight though just to be sure.

www.yplaudio.com.tw, hope this is of some use.


----------



## Elephas

Mezevenf, I hope you can share more of your experience with the Dared MP-5.

 jjcha, your Dared MP-5/HD650 rig's cabling is interesting indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm hearing a slight buzz/hum with the HD-650/G52. I tried both the Senn and Grado 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapters.

 Using the CEC DA53's outputs, gain is very high. The first click on the volume knob up from minimum is no sound, the second click has only left channel sound, and the third click is very loud through both channels. The Lavry DA10's variable output is needed to have any kind of range on the volume knob.

 The HD650 sounds warm, bassy and dark through my Dared MP-5 compared to the Lehmann BCL. It's a pleasant sound for R&B such as Misia and Utada Hikaru.


----------



## ak622

I haven't heard an aria before so I can't make a comparison but I am interested in trying some tubes later on. Where did you order your tubes from and how much did they cost? Im running a pair of K501s right now so the tubes you have might be an intersting fit. But I guess I'm just going to have to try different tubes myself... Im in a love/hate relationship with this forum!! My hears love it, but my wallet hates it... hahaha 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_Absolutely, I described some of the changes in my earlier post. My MP-5 currently sounds quite similar to my aria in signature (oddly so), but with stronger/richer midrange, which seems to significantly open up the K701s. It's not quite as controlled as the aria, but at the moment I don't really care, because overall it just sounds better to me with the AKGs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With Senns it was a very different story though, probably due to the output impedance, so this comparison doesn't apply to all cans by any means._


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_I haven't heard an aria before so I can't make a comparison but I am interested in trying some tubes later on. Where did you order your tubes from and how much did they cost? Im running a pair of K501s right now so the tubes you have might be an intersting fit. But I guess I'm just going to have to try different tubes myself... Im in a love/hate relationship with this forum!! My hears love it, but my wallet hates it... hahaha_

 

I ordered mine, a matched pair, from BOI AudioWorks. There are a number of locations to buy from though, as you can see from the sticky thread at the top of this forum.

 Depending on your opinion of the K501s, the Sovteks may be too bass light for them. I personally wouldn't mind a little more in the last octave with the 701s, but I'm going to be switching sources this week, so I'll see how that works out first.


----------



## Mezevenf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_Mezevenf, I hope you can share more of your experience with the Dared MP-5._

 

Well, since you asked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have primarily been using this with speakers, as I am originally a speaker guy, not a headphone guy. The MP5 is for use with my HD590's as I have a much better valve amp for the 600's.

 The unit is great, I love its size and usability, although I am yet to try the DAC, its good to know its there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For its price, you cannot beat it. I used a similar priced amp (AMC 3050A) to compare using 3 different sets of speakers, the Bestons, Rega's and a locally made set of Artisans. Straight up for something in the same price range (read, $600>$800AUD, although I paid $240 for the MP5).

 Although it has not yet run in, I have noticed that the silent-buzz is almost completely gone. I am eager to try the MP5 with my new cable coming for the 590's from Stefan. It is a very very warm amp, everything mixes in nicely and it has a very nice range throughout, nice tight lows (although I run a seperate sub with its own amp for speaker use, much deeper) a nice midrange and a very nice high end. It does not have as much detail as my AMC amp (which is far from a headphone amp mind you) but I like the sound better overall.

 So I guess thats how I feel about it now, I love the little unit to bits, especially when running a valve phono stage from my custom build Lenco L78, it is amazing. It does lack the finer details that other (and usually more expensive) amps provide, but the valve'ness (lol, couldnt think of a good word) makes the experience much richer and more natural.

 I will start using it with my 590's a little more in the future, but I'm really interested in these little Beston speakers atm and I'm trying to break them in.


----------



## jjcha

Is anyone else using the Dared with the Grado SR-225 or HF-1? I've been using it with my modded Overture (which is a nice, tight, punchy source) for the last few days, and I have to say, w/ the Dared, this is the best I've heard these mid-range Grado in any of my rigs. The Dared adds thickness and bloom and distortion (I think, I'm still new to this tube amp stuff) which works perfectly with the technically accurate Overture to make the Grado truly rock!






 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jjcha

Okay, I bet I have close to 300+ hours on my Dared now. It may yet still settle in, but if there are major changes to the sound... well who knows, we'll see. But so far:

 So still trying it with the K 1000. The conclusions aren't all that different from the last time I checked in.

 With USB > Dared > K 1000 - still too hard-sounding. I like the power of the unit, but the sound is just still fatiguing and harsh on the ears. 

 Grace m902 > Dared > K 1000. This is a lot better. 

 But comparing between the Dared and Grace's headphone jack for the K 1000, there's no comparison - the Grace drives it with a fuller and gentler sound, without losing any detail or punch. Honestly, the Grace is a little laid back relative to where I want my K 1000 sound, but the Dared's amp stage, while it's more aggressive sounding, is so in that harsh/hard way, so it's not an improvement. 

 Overture > Zu Pivot > Dared > K 1000.

 This is okay. I don't want to use the Grace as my source, because it doesn't fit in my computer rig very well right now. The Overture does better than just the USB input, but I still hear hints of the hardness I can't stand with the straight USB action. This is just okay. Grace is better as the source. This is "barely acceptable".

 Overture > Earcandy > Dared > K 1000. Much better than the prior. The Earcandy is a warmer/smoother cable, rolled off at the extremes. A more acceptable sound - it takes that final edge off of the hardness I keep complaining about. At the same time though, this combo is a weird one. The Overture's punchy and dynamic, the Earcandy is smooth and rolled off, and the Dared's powerful, but harsh. It comes together to an acceptable sound, but it's not as good as the Grace m902. It's like the sum of its parts balance each other out somewhat, but it doesn't play to any of its strengths. To some degree, the Overture > T-Amp is a more pure and better sound, though this may be more balanced.

 Anyway, I'll live with the last setup for a little while and see where it's at over time.

 So the rankings thus far:

 #1. Grace m902 (DAC & Amp) > K 1000
 #2. Grace m902 (DAC) > Dared MP-5 (Amp) > K 1000
 #3. Overture (DAC) > Earcandy > Dared MP-5 (Amp) > K 1000
 #4. Overture (DAC) > Zu Pivot > Dared MP-5 (Amp) > K 1000
 #5. Dared MP-5 (DAC & Amp) > K 1000

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## pingalep

eventually how do you consider the dared mp-5+hd650 and the dared mp-5+k701 combo?

 which one is better for a comuter as source based hi-fi system?

 comparing the dared to 1600$ dac+amp is a big compliment, isn't it?!

 in the 200-300$ price range could this little amp+dac be a good choice?

 what are the competitors in this range of price? i don't know any dac+amp under the 500-600$

 best regards


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pingalep* 
_comparing the dared to 1600$ dac+amp is a big compliment, isn't it?!

 in the 200-300$ price range could this little amp+dac be a good choice?

 what are the competitors in this range of price? i don't know any dac+amp under the 500-600$_

 

As a matter of economics, distribution, marketting, etc the MP5 is just cheaper to make so you can't compare. The m902 is also a lot more complex device.

 The MP5 is more amp than it is source. I'd say the new Zhaolu is in the price range. Even cheaper actually. It's much more source though and that's where I'd put my money first, in the source.

 --lan


----------



## Elephas

_"how do you consider the dared mp-5+hd650 and the dared mp-5+k701 combo?"_

 I think both the HD650 and K701 sound OK with the Dared MP-5, with the K701 being the better match.

_"which one is better for a comuter as source based hi-fi system?"_

 The MP-5 could be a decent starter all-in-one USB DAC source combination speaker and headphone amp. A source upgrade would be my next step, though.

_"comparing the dared to 1600$ dac+amp is a big compliment, isn't it?!"_

 Yes. However, in this case the headphones used are the K1000, which means the MP-5's disadvantage may be less than it appears.

 My Lehmann Black Cube Linear and AT-HA5000 can both drive the K1000, but not as well as the Dared MP-5. I recently tried the K1000 with an audio shop's demo RSA Raptor and I was disappointed.

_"in the 200-300$ price range could this little amp+dac be a good choice?"_

 Yes.

_"what are the competitors in this range of price? i don't know any dac+amp under the 500-600$"_

 Corda Aria US$450

 Some separate USB DACs and amps are less than $500 (example: Firestone Fubar II + amp)


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_Yes. However, in this case the headphones used are the K1000, which means the MP-5's disadvantage may be less than it appears.

 My Lehmann Black Cube Linear and AT-HA5000 can both drive the K1000, but not as well as the Dared MP-5. I recently tried the K1000 with an audio shop's demo RSA Raptor and I was disappointed._

 


 I aggreed with Elephas here, the MP-5 drive the K1K better then all the amp I have, that including the PPX3 and M3


----------



## ak622

James: How does it sound with the groove tubes burned in? Can you give me a little description on how the sound changed or what aspects you enjoy from them? Thanks!


----------



## Pixel Pusher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* 
_I aggreed with Elephas here, the MP-5 drive the K1K better then all the amp I have, that including the PPX3 and M3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad to hear it, I will be joining Team Dared shortly to drive my K1000s! Bill over at the Gon is shipping my MP-5 today.


----------



## jjcha

Congrats, and welcome to team Dared K 1000!

 I've been enjoying it for the last few days since my last post with the warmer cable between the Overture and Dared. 

 I will comment though that I'm hearing (as I heard before) distortion at louder listening levels in the bass region. Just the bass starts to break-up a bit. I think Bozebuttons noticed this as well at the national meet.

 Otherwise, with the Earcandy the Dared really is sounding more like what I imagined a tube amp to sound like. It's a pretty nice sound - if I wanted to be critical, sure the edges aren't as crisp as they would be with the T-Amp or Grace m902. Bass is a bit loose. But the presentation now takes off the metallic edge that the T-Amp can give the K 1000.

 Hmm, K 1000, she's a demanding mistress she is... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, can I say, K 1000 + Dared is my favorite rig for punk music right now?? It's like I wanted something with this weird balance of resolving and fast, but still kinda - well, I can't think of a better word for it, but tubey-distorting. So far this gives me the closest semblence of going to a show at a great venue. Well one that has good acoustics and only half-filled crowd...

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Pixel Pusher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Oh, can I say, K 1000 + Dared is my favorite rig for punk music right now?? It's like I wanted something with this weird balance of resolving and fast, but still kinda - well, I can't think of a better word for it, but tubey-distorting. So far this gives me the closest semblence of going to a show at a great venue. Well one that has good acoustics and only half-filled crowd..._

 

Now that's what I wanted to hear. Team Dared K 1000 doesn't have to be the most resolving set-up but enjoyable from Jpop to Punk! 

 Let's see how she fares with some Guitar Wolf and Balzac. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kev


----------



## GRhodes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Congrats, and welcome to team Dared K 1000!_

 


 Damnit! Here I thought I was finally on a team (Dared MP-5!) and then the team gets refined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, at least I am still on team Dared K280.... it's a very, very small team.


----------



## Ericx

YEE i just got mines today. Sound signature sure is quite different from what i've been hearing. This is a good thing. I haven't tried it with my computer source yet. Should i use it as a DAC or an amp? i will audition these two later on, but for you guys, which would you prefer?


----------



## Mezevenf

Right now I run it as an amp, for speakers and headphones.

 I don't use the DAC, because I don't think it sounds any better than my Audigy right now.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_James: How does it sound with the groove tubes burned in? Can you give me a little description on how the sound changed or what aspects you enjoy from them? Thanks!_

 


 ak622: I have not had the time to sit down and do any critical listening yet, but the intial impression IMHO the groove tubes seems to make the K1K warmer, to me it open up the K1K in the low end with loosing much of the high. For some CDs I really like it, for other I prefered the PPX3 SLAM. I hope that answer your question. I will post more definite impression one I have a chance to sitdown with it for a while.


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ericx* 
_Should i use it as a DAC or an amp? i will audition these two later on, but for you guys, which would you prefer?_

 

It depends what you have and like if it's an "upgrade" or not. I would personally use it as an amp as the DAC part is a downgrade for me.


----------



## jjcha

The Dared K 1000 chronicles continue.

 I spent some time with the K 1000 and Grace m902 today - and it bored me. The K 1000 has always bored me out of the Grace. Don't get me wrong, I've always thought it sounded good and handled the K 1000 very well - there's a good pairing there. The warmer rounded sound fills out the K 1000, and there's enough punch and detail to keep it lively. But there's just no magic. It's like the HD650 balanced out of my Dynamight. It's technically a great pairing, but it's just not as seductive as I know the HD6X0 can be.

 But with the Dared - I have no idea what's been going on, whether it's just the cable or burn-in, or maybe I'm just getting used to the sound. But now instead of characterizing it as "bad solid state", I have to characterize it as kinda like gooey tubey goodness. Yes, I can hear the flabbiness in the lower range, and it's a softened sound - even softer than the Grace. But there's something awfully pleasing about it. I hear the exaggerated harmonics, especially relative to the Grace's linearity.

 Heck if this is euphony - give me euphony or give me deat-- er. Well, I prefer euphony over boring. And my m902 is boring.

 Right now I enjoy the K 1000 best out of the Dared. My how things change eh?







 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## anom

Well thanks to Jason and Bill I received my Dared MP-5 yesterday. I arrived home from work at 5:15 and found a sorry we missed you on my door, hauled ass over to the post office and got the package just before they closed shop. 

 Unfortunately, I had very little time to listen to the amp as I had plans for the evening. I gave it a few minutes to warm up and listened to a few songs on my SR-225s. Considering this is only my second amp and I had very little time to listen and the amp has had 0 burn-in, I can't really give much of an impression yet, other than I definitely heard a lot on the low end like Jason mentioned in earlier posts, but I did not hear any of the buzzing reported by others. I'll give more impressions once I have some time to properly burn in the amp.


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_And my m902 is boring.

 Right now I enjoy the K 1000 best out of the Dared. My how things change eh?_

 

So are you bringing the m902 with you on vacation? If not, give it back to me. boring... haha. I've always thought it was a bit reserved.

 Where does the T-amp now fit into the scheme of things?


----------



## jjcha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_So are you bringing the m902 with you on vacation? If not, give it back to me. boring... haha. I've always thought it was a bit reserved.

 Where does the T-amp now fit into the scheme of things?_

 

Honestly I don't know. I brought out all the rigs (T-Amp, Dared, Grace) to the living room to try them all out - but after I had that crazy idea to use a different cable between the Overture and Dared, I've been so pleased with it, I don't think I ever got around to the T-Amp. We'll see...

 Hmm, haven't decided on the m902 yet. m902 + K 1000 is a bit too boring. I might be happier with W10VTG straight out of the computer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## jjcha

Just another check-in...

 Still using the Overture > Dared > K 1000. Been enjoying it a lot.

 I realize the strength of this combination really is its imaging and sense of spaciousness. I'm sure there are combos that bring out far more spaciousness out of the K 1000, but this starts to get at one criticism I've always had with my K 1000 setups. That the soundstage, while nice and full and wide, was never as 3D as I got with my Qualia 010. Sounds never took a shape with much depth with the T-Amp or even Grace m902. 

 The Dared starts to get there. I'm enjoying my computer rig now for the music itself, rather than just as a convienent way of listening to music or watching video clips while at the computer.

 This definitely confirms for me that while I like things like detail, tonal balance, heh, massive yet tight bass, my priorities are texture and, despite the inherent impossibility with headphones, recreating a semblence of realistic space.

 In this regard, the Dared is getting the big 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (now if only I could tighten the bass, add more definition/texture to the sound and improve further upon the spaciousness... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Mezevenf

I've just noticed tonight that the Dared seems to have gotten a lot more natural sounding... Must be getting towards the 100hr mark...

 It keeps on impressing me and my HD590's and HD600's. Love this thing with detailed music and the 590's.


----------



## Ericx

Oh giggity I really need to burn mines in. Currently in the 10 hour mark rofl


----------



## jjcha

Well, I'm about to head out for a trip to Japan, so I placed my Dared in lan's able hands for modding and tuberolling. Guess I'll have to hold off on any further impressions.

 I will say going back to the modded/upgraded T-Amp, wow it's quite a different sound. It's so much cleaner and linear and crisper than the Dared. Nice tight bass. But the imaging just utterly flattened - no depth, no 3D. The thing that I was enjoying most about the Dared and K 1000 is just gone. Also, sure I can hear how much more flat the tonal presentation is (though still treble tipped), but nothing about that seduces me.

 Still, there's no doubt there's a lot to like about this rig. And everything still needs to burn in anyway. Either way, it'll have to do for the next few days before I actually leave. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## Mezevenf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Well, I'm about to head out for a trip to Japan, so I placed my Dared in lan's able hands for modding and tuberolling._

 

Ooo, looking forward to that


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I will say going back to the modded/upgraded T-Amp, wow it's quite a different sound. It's so much cleaner and linear and crisper than the Dared. Nice tight bass. But the imaging just utterly flattened - no depth, no 3D. The thing that I was enjoying most about the Dared and K 1000 is just gone. Also, sure I can hear how much more flat the tonal presentation is (though still treble tipped), but nothing about that seduces me._

 

Did you move back to the EarCandy cables?

 The T-amp needs a better power supply. I guarantee that will further enhance the sound hehe. Also it was a quick fix. There's other stuff in there I didn't bother with. It's a tough call between the two units. The battle continues... So far they are tied. The MP5 does have better spaciousness and layering but it's not enough for me.

 One thing for sure, the MP5 is better with a better source.


----------



## Meyvn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_Did you move back to the EarCandy cables?

 The T-amp needs a better power supply. I guarantee that will further enhance the sound hehe. Also it was a quick fix. There's other stuff in there I didn't bother with. It's a tough call between the two units. The battle continues... So far they are tied. The MP5 does have better spaciousness and layering but it's not enough for me.

 One thing for sure, the MP5 is better with a better source._

 

Better (with better source) as in better than the T-Amp, or better as in better than it would be otherwise? It's a shame you don't have a Super-T to test, as that's what I've got. Since this particular aspect wasn't covered, compared to the T-Amp, is the Dared significantly less detailed?


----------



## jjcha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_Did you move back to the EarCandy cables?_

 

Yeah, there is something seriously weird going on with that Zu Pivot. Actually, you know me, I like weird, so kinda like it. (BTW, I am seriously considering getting that Edition 7.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

 Lol. But yes, the EarCandy is a far more balanced sound.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_The T-amp needs a better power supply. I guarantee that will further enhance the sound hehe. Also it was a quick fix. There's other stuff in there I didn't bother with. It's a tough call between the two units. The battle continues... So far they are tied. The MP5 does have better spaciousness and layering but it's not enough for me._

 

Heh, I can believe it. But how much further can we really get that T-Amp? I mean there's only so much we can do eh? Maybe I should get that $4~5k Halcro!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_One thing for sure, the MP5 is better with a better source._

 

Oh yeah, just to be clear to everyone else - we're using my lan modded HeadRoom Overture as source. We tried it briefly with the internal USB DAC today, and the fatiguing/hardness to the sound was there again. I also mentioned to lan that I tried it with an iPod as source and the sound was just all over the place. The iPod didn't have enough gain, unlike the Overture or Dared's internal DAC, so I had to pump up the volume, but it just sounded unbalanced and lacked anything at the extremes. I don't know what it is, but the Dared didn't like the iPod at all.

 And I've been known to use the iPod to drive my old speaker rig. Nothing like an iPod behind 10k worth of audio gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I can definitely understand why lan finds it to be a tie, and I agree. I will say that as much as I love detail and resolution, layering and soundstage is even more important to me, which is why I've been enjoying the Dared so much lately. It starts to hint at what the K 1000 is capable of for soundstaging, and I think that's pretty nifty for a budget component I bought just because it looks pretty. But I buy everything (well not the K 1000) because it looks pretty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's the thing - I definitely think the Grace m902 outclasses the Dared + any of my sources (well, I haven't tried the Chord) as being a suitable K 1000 amplifier. But my preferences are such that there's just a hint of soundstaging magic with the Dared, which is why I prefer it, esp with the lan modded Overture.

 One of these days I've got to get my K 1000 on a serious rig... but I do like the Dared plenty. It's been a lot of fun for $300.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meyvn* 
_Better (with better source) as in better than the T-Amp, or better as in better than it would be otherwise? It's a shame you don't have a Super-T to test, as that's what I've got. Since this particular aspect wasn't covered, compared to the T-Amp, is the Dared significantly less detailed?_

 

I mean MP5 would be better than it would be otherwise if it had a better source. The internal DAC on there is not very good IMO especially with K1000. It might be fine with a more forgiving/easygoing headphone.

 We cannot compare this T-amp with the MP5 since the former is modded and the later stock. The T-amp was more detailed and in control of the K1000 but such information is near irrelevant for most since they cannot reproduce this system and thus results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_Lol. But yes, the EarCandy is a far more balanced sound.

 Heh, I can believe it. But how much further can we really get that T-Amp? I mean there's only so much we can do eh?

 Here's the thing - I definitely think the Grace m902 outclasses the Dared + any of my sources (well, I haven't tried the Chord) as being a suitable K 1000 amplifier. But my preferences are such that there's just a hint of soundstaging magic with the Dared, which is why I prefer it, esp with the lan modded Overture._

 

Yes I far prefer that EarCandy mini to RCA to that Zu Pivot. I can see how the Zu Pivot can be engaging but I believe the EarCandy will be the more neutral and better on the "new" MP5 you'll hear in a few weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That T-amp needs better power period. There's some other things which can be done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't try very hard though yet. You should try it on your speaker rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll see which modern tubes can maintain and even enhance that soundstaging magic on the MP5.


----------



## ak622

I've had mine for about 3 weeks and I have to say that it works really well with my K501. The soundstage makes listening to music especially live concerts (ie Diana Krall - Live in Paris) all that more enjoyable. As this is my 2nd amp, 1st being a pa2v2, I can't really give many comparisons but from my ears I have to give it 2 big thumbs up and that its definitely a worth while upgrade to me. It definitely gives full bodied sound to my music over the pa2v2 and powers my K501's nicely. It works well with the K501's midrange and adds a little to the low end. Even though many people say the K501 is bass shy, I don't find it lacking in that range. I guess I'm not a basshead so a this combo works well for me. 

 One of the reason why the unit peaked my interest was the internal USB DAC and it works well iwth my laptop. Now Im wondering if that is the weak link in my system and should I look at an external DAC then amp it. Other than Jason with the Grace 902, has anyone else used an external DAC, some type of USB DAC or even a Squeezebox with it? And if you did, was there much improvement compared to the internal DAC?

 Thanks!
 Andrew


----------



## Elephas

Here's my Dared MP-5 driving the K1000 and K701. I'm using a new K1000 tail-end cable that was custom-made by a local audio shop. It's a 2 meter DLS-SCKS speaker cable with Eichmann banana plugs.

 The Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II XLR cables and Cardas XLR-RCA adapters are thick. The MP-5's RCA outputs are too close together and it's a tight fit.


----------



## suharsh

Got mine yesterday. Boy it sure has great looks! 

 I have started to listen to this baby using the versatile Senn HD-600. As soon as the sound started to flow in, I new that MP-5 had a unqiue characteristics. 

 Source was my Jolida JD-100 Tube CD Player. I have heard my HD-600s either by directly connecting to the Jolida CD Player or to ASL's MG-Head. As most of you know the MG-Head and HD-600 go very well. Dared MP-5 seems to be almost there but certainly not yet. But then I had upgrade my tubes on the MG-Head.

 The sound from Dared seems to me pretty warm and thick. If there was a measure similar to Viscosity of liquids then I am sure the MP-5 would have had a relatively higher number.

 Yet to try the USB-DAC and AKG 1000 on the dared. Hope the AKG pairs well. 

 The biggest advantage that I see of Dared is the features it offers at this price point - USB + DAC to connect to your PC/MP3 player, Headphone output for headphones and speaker outputs for either AKG 1000 or computer speakers! Now only if they had provided a remote control with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More later ... so far I am happy. Certainly a positive investment.


----------



## lan

This unit is a hybrid amp as it has a solid state output.

 The USB DAC is not that great IMO so in jjcha's unit, I will be bypassing the source selector switch and DAC and probably mini headphone jack and rewiring things direct. RCA -> Volume control. Solid state output -> speakers. The headphone jack is just the speaker outputs with resistors.


----------



## ak622

I agree with Ian regarding the DAC. My Cambridge Audio 640c player has more detail than the USB DAC. But the USB DAC is convienient and allows me to play FLAC files from my computer. I think i will look into a squeezebox or other source to feed the amp down the road...

 Ian: how wil you be bypassing the source selector switch and dac? Please let us know what your results are after that mod....


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_Ian: how wil you be bypassing the source selector switch and dac? Please let us know what your results are after that mod...._

 

Easy. Just wire the RCA input jacks to the volume control directly.


----------



## Mezevenf

Has anyone been able to stop the background buzzing on the MP5 yet? It's starting to annoy me a little.


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lan* 
_This unit is a hybrid amp as it has a solid state output._

 

Gah, I hope I didn't say anything stupid before, such as "this tube amp." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 --
 As for the buzz/hum, I've had best results using a source with variable volume control and the MP-5's analog inputs.


----------



## lan

My background noise has been reduced by using lower gain tubes.

 I was testing RCA clear top 12AU7A and now JJ Tesla 12AU7. Actually I'm using JJ tubes because it matches JJCha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since it's his amp and also I like the sound of these tubes.

 The noise is one thing but the hum maybe another. I think the tube's heater is AC based. I will investigate more later.


----------



## KB

The distributor in the US for MP-5 does not sell single units, only 10's. Is the best place for people in the US the guy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dared-new-USB-DA...QQcmdZViewItem

 Thanks Guys,

 Ken


----------



## Meyvn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mezevenf* 
_Has anyone been able to stop the background buzzing on the MP5 yet? It's starting to annoy me a little._

 

I don't own the MP5, but from what I know about it, I can tell you that the way it's structured, it will probably only not hiss with the K1000s, without some serious modification. From my research with connecting headphones to the speaker outs of other amps, they almost always exhibit some sort of hiss, some amps and some headphones more than others. Since the Dared's headphone out is simply the speaker outs with resistors, perhaps this would explain why the buzz/hiss is slight, but still present. Hope this helps.


----------



## devwild

As I've mentioned, it is also is pretty much silent with the K701s. Tuberolling changes the noise level a bit. The few times I have heard any hum or buzz it has been from the preamp tubes, though most have been silent, or became silent after warm up/burn in. The hiss is clearly coming from elsewhere in the circuit.

 When I bought this amp I figured based on the price I got it for, that I should be willing to spend some money experimenting with tubes. To my surprise, in doing so, I have learned significantly more about my musical tastes and what aspects I enjoy. It was not quite what I thought, after so much time with only solid state gear and brief tube/hybrid encounters. The difference in tone, detail, and presentation between tubes, even in a lowly hybrid, is more than I had considered possible. This, and other equipment on hand, gave me a wider range available to me at one time than ever previously for testing.

 This is not to say that I will necessarilly be buying lots of tube gear now - I won't any time in the near future because of convenience aspects, and because a lot of what I like can also be found in solid state gear. What this experience has done however, is teach me new things to listen for in any gear, and to not get caught up in technicalities or any preset concepts of what I may or may not enjoy. Despite efforts to do this previously, clearly I still wasn't being open-minded enough. Echoing Jason's comments, it was worth it just for that.

 Currently I am very much enjoying the sound of some NOS Jan GE 5751s. They are a _significant_ upgrade over the stock tubes in the MP-5, with much better control and detail all around, while still having a nice warm organic sound (as I mentioned previously the sovtek LPS tubes became too bright for me when I switched to a better DAC). They also seem to warm up to a stable point much faster than other tubes, which is a welcome change when I don't feel like waiting to fully enjoy my speakers if the amp was off.


----------



## GRhodes

I have absolutely no buzz, hiss or anything else using AKG K280s. Maybe the amp is just AKG friendly.... ?


----------



## ak622

Nope its not its AKG friendly since Im using a pair of k501s and i do here the buzzing occasionally... But its not too big of a concern of mine either so its not always there either..


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GRhodes* 
_I have absolutely no buzz, hiss or anything else using AKG K280s. Maybe the amp is just AKG friendly.... ?_

 

It seems that way to me as well. Not just because of the lower noise levels, but my observations have been that it drives the AKGs better than other headphones I have tried. In my opinion, using the presonus as a source for both, my current configuration surpasses the corda aria on almost all counts... but only with the with the K701s.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* 
_Nope its not its AKG friendly since Im using a pair of k501s and i do here the buzzing occasionally... But its not too big of a concern of mine either so its not always there either.._

 

As mentioned above, I would bet it's the tubes. 


 I will consolidate my overall impressions of what few tubes and configurations I've tried next weekend after I feel I've had substantial time with the GE and JJ tubes.


----------



## lionel marechal

Enjoying it right now, I do hear the buzz/humming both with the sr225 and the hd580. But I do not hear it anymore as soon as the music start. 
 I will try later with the additional tubes I got with it, but I want to enjoy it as it is right now.

 I do enjoy it, but I am not sure if I enjoy it more than my fubar+cute combination. Dnno if my ears are not good, not trained, and/or not sure where the placebo effect stands. I will do some test when somebody will be with me to switch the sources without me knowing and after setting comparable sound levels.

 So .. a bit more later with some impressions, but I am not good at comparing and giving impressions. BUt I am following the thread with a lot of attention 

 Oh and any the way, the cat eye does not provide anything at all as or really just a litlle small tiny bit, although I do not consider I am listening at low levels (click 10 on the dared with the sr225 and using th, I do not reach the level to make it do its magic .. or if yes, it's too loud for me.


 Lionel


----------



## quid

i'm sorry if i disturb, can i ask where buy on line the amp dared mp-5 at the best price (is $250 ?? ), thank you so much.

 quid


----------



## jjcha

Hi quid,

 I sent you a PM about contacting Bill, the audiogon'er who helped me and a few other people here out with our MP-5.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## lan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjcha* 
_I placed my Dared in lan's able hands for modding and tuberolling._

 

Round 1 is finished.

 We may do a round 2 but I think I'll stop now so we can see what you think. It's much less bloated now and more detailed on my speakers compared to before.


----------



## Mezevenf

I've been thinking about this annoying buzzing with the occasional increased hiss that accompanies it and I'm betting the annoying hiss is coming from my computer, as it seems to work in time with certain aspects of the computer.

 So, gotta see what its like coming from a different source like my turntable. Although I think the buzzing will still be there, its rather loud for my tastes.


----------



## Elephas

I got a pair of Sylvania JAN 5751 and installed them in place of the stock 6N1 tubes.

 Using the K701, the sound is bassy and warm. Not bad with some fast-paced Brazilian lounge music. They are definitely an improvement over the stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soundstage is narrower and airyness is reduced compared to the Raptor, though. The background noise level is also higher and there is less detail.

 I will try to roll some more 12AX7 tubes to see if there is any more improvement. The Magic Eye tube seems limited in selection and is more difficult to find.


----------



## Elephas

I ordered some 12AU7 tubes for the Raptor some time ago. They came in pairs, and I decided to try them with the Dared MP-5.

 They are the Telefunken ECC82, Mullard ECC82 and Brimar CV4003/12AU7.

 I've tried the Brimar and Telefunken with the Dared MP-5, and I like the Telefunken. Gain is lower than the Sylvania 5751 or the stock 6N1, and the volume control range is more comfortable now with the K701. Bass quantity is less than the stock 6N1, and it is tighter. Treble is crisper and more sparkly.

 The Telefunken ECC82 is very quiet. With no music playing using the K701, there's no buzz/hum until the volume reaches 3 o'clock. My normal listening volume with the K701 is only 3 to 4 clicks up.


----------



## Elephas

Wow, I just rolled in the Mullard ECC82, and it's even better than the Telefunken.

 With the K701, there's no buzz/hum at all even at max volume. The SA5000 has a slight hum at close to maximum.

 Bass quantity and quality is very high with either the K701 or SA5000. Playing Vengaboys' Megamix 99, the bass is massive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 No hint of any sibilance at earbleeding volume level. Soundstage and imaging is excellent. Background is very quiet.

 With these tubes, I think the Dared MP-5 has reached a much higher level of performance. Overall listening enjoyment is competitive with my other three amps, the AT-HA5000, Raptor and Lehmann BCL.

 EDIT: These Mullards are so good I just went on Yahoo Auctions and bought some CV4003 and CV4004, and E182CC for the Raptor.


----------



## devwild

Glad to hear someone else is finding the Dared competitive with better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What source are you using at the moment, the Lavry?


----------



## Elephas

Yes, I use the Lavry with the MP-5 because it allows a greater range of volume control.

 I set it at 46 for the purpose of making evaluations. At level 46, the Lavry's output is about the same level as the CEC DA53's fixed output.


----------



## devwild

As I said I would, I'm going to try to briefly summarize my experiences with the Dared in various configurations, much of which will be repeat from my earlier posts, but hopefully easier to follow this way, and perhaps useful to someone. 

 I am listing these configurations in order from least favorite to most. They are weighted both on technicality and personal enjoyment level, so feel free to disagree. Impressions are based on sound with _both_ the RS250MKII speakers and K701 headphones unless otherwise stated. Though different in sound they benefited from similar characteristics. When using the Presonus Central Station, I am using its passive preamp and keeping the Dared fixed at 9-10 o'clock. 

 1) *Internal DAC / Suguang 12AX7B*
 The stock DAC and tubes on the American version of the MP-5 are, in my opinion, only a rough glance into the potential of the amp. Highs and Lows are loose and detail can be muddied, though the overall sound is playful and textured, and sometime inviting on that alone, particularly with solo string instruments, also classical and jazz.

 2) *Presonus CS / Sovtek 12AX7LPS*
 No that's not a typo, while technically superior to the internal DAC, this configuration was too bright in the particular frequencies that bug my ears, and also lost a lot of layering and soundstage.

 3) *Presonus CS / Suguang 12AX7B*
 The stock tubes were easier to enjoy with the external DAC than the Sovteks, as they are warm and rich, but at the same time they lack in detail and bass control. Has a bit of a mid-bass hump and rolled highs. To me this was the most stereotypical "tubey" sounding configuration. Nice for classical, but we can do better...

 4) *Internal DAC / Sovtek 12AX7LPS*
 What's that cheap internal DAC doing up here? Well, to be honest, I really enjoyed this configuration on fun factor alone. While not as controlled as a better DAC, this configuration yielded a significant detail jump and balance improvement over the Suguangs and a sort of magical open soundstaging and discrete layering, particularly with the K701s. What was more interesting was how this was combined with a strong midrange to provide rich vocals without the in-your-head feeling. Shifting from a more expensive rig to this one directly makes the soundstaging sound artificial, like a computer's 3D sound effect, but I still think it was a lot of fun on the cheap.

 5) *Presonus CS / JJ/Tesla ECC803S*
 A definite improvement over the Sovteks when using the external DAC, this configuration isn't bright, but also isn't particularly warm. The tubes have a mid-bass hump new that appears to fade with burn in leaving you with a neutral sound with nice, open staging and a clean detailed sound on most music types. Vocals can be distant at times, and the lack of rich midrange and bass impact is not quite what I'm looking for in this setup. Strikes me as a great cleaner, smoother, better extended upgrade over a moderate HD595 setup (which I just sold in favor of the K701s)

 6) *Presonus CS / NOS JAN GE 5751*
 My clear favorite thus far, these are truly great tubes for my use. Solid soundstage, impressive detail and stability with _any_ music, rich midrange, natural layering with excelent instrument seperation, and quick warm-up time all make for wonderful experience with the MP-5. That doesn't make this setup perfect - it could stand for better low-end bass impact at times and the slightly wider soundstage I now know is possible. However, the strengths of this configuration are providing virtually everything I wanted from this setup better than I could have hoped. Even if I try other tubes I think I will get a spare pair of these.

 Additional notes:

 - The Presonus is a significantly better DAC than the internal DAC and a better representation of quality solid state sources. It also improved my experience by providing a passive preamp for much finer volume control. Note that I did not test the JJ or Jan tubes with the internal DAC.

 - 4) and 6) were the two configurations that I chose to stack directly against the Corda Aria with the K701s. 4) was easilly more enjoyable with the K701s to me despite being technically inferior. That comparison is based on using the Aria with its internal DAC or the HR MicroDAC. 6) was, in my opinion, superior to the Aria in every way except for a slightly smaller (but more open and layered) soundstage. In addition to layering it has better instrument separation, bass control, and a richer midrange which pairs wonderfully with the K701s. This was with the Aria also using the Presonus as a source (main out, no preamp).

 - *BUT*, and this is a big but - the previous statement only holds true for the K701. During the time I borrowed it, I felt the HD650 was clearly driven better by the Aria. Likewise I still like my M^3 better for my SA5000s, regardless of the noise they pick up on the Dared. Perhaps it is true that AKGs headphones are well served by modified speaker amps such as this. Time, and experimentation by others will tell.

 - The Dared holds onto such an impression of an excelent value for me because I now have it performing admirably as both a headphone amp and a speaker amp. Considering what I was looking at as alternatives, this saved me money.


 There is much above I have left out - there are more differences in treble balance, low end extension, etc - but the truth is, this is partly a journey for each owner to take, and there are plenty of tubes out there to try. I have been enjoying each configuration for what it is, what music it sounds good with, and for the new experience it has given me for a relatively low total cost. The presonus increased that cost, but I can also get a lot of mileage from it because it is a very versatile device, and if I ever get rid of these speakers, powered monitors are likely in my future. I have sold both my Aria and my HD595s because they were superfluous in my current setup.


----------



## KB

Hey All,

 I am in need of some advice from the gurus.

 I recently also picked up one of these Dared MP5's. I am new to tube amps. My configuration is; iPod Dock Station line out using one of my Cotton mini to rca cables, I am using a Volex 17604 power cord in lue of the stock power cord, the amp is pushing a pair of Bose 201 bookshelf speakers (please go easy on me they came easy my way), HF-1's or my A900LTD's cans.

 The stock tubes were very harsh at first but smoothed out nicely after only about a days worth of play. I did not notice any hum or buzz what so ever with the speakers or my headphones. Everything was just fine and I was so very pleased with the amp.

 Of course whats the point of a tube amp if you dont tube roll? So I picked up a pair of matched sets of NOS JAN GE 5751's and a pair of SOVTEK 12AX7LPS see here...









 I noticed both the GE and Sovtek tubes required me to really crank on the volume knob, both sets of tubes did not sound as nice as the stock tubes despite the reports from Devwild (by the way what a awesome couple of posts from him). Anyway I figured that if I continue to break in the GE tubes in they might respond better. I played them for the good part of a day and in the morning I turned on the amp and noticed a nasty white noise that sounded much like our daughters baby monitor, heh!, not very loud mind you, and on top of that the volume knob crackled when I turned it. I thought well it might be the tubes so I swapped out the GE's for the Sovteks and they too exhibited the same problem. Here I did not put the stock tubes at this point. I left for the day and returned home later that day, the amp was still playing and it still had all the above problems. Then it dawned on me, the fella who sold me the amp sold me a non US version? I looked and the stock tubes are a 6N1. This is pretty lame because his ebay auctions claim to be selling the US versions, so I feel duped at the moment and it appears that I am stuck with using these stock tubes?. Can someone shed some light on the compatibility of these 61N’s

 I have contacted the US dealer and I am seriously thinking about buying 10 for resale on my website. I hope others do not get duped into thinking they are getting the US version when they are infact not.

 Thanks,
 ken


----------



## Elephas

My unit is the non-US version that came with the 6N1 tubes. They are high gain, but sound quality is inferior to the other tubes I've tried. I don't intend to use them anymore.

 The Sylvania 5751 and Brimar 12AU7 did have some volume knob crackling when first used. After a while, the crackling was reduced.

 I've settled on using a pair of Mullard ECC82 and a Philips EM87 Magic Eye. This combination has no crackling, no hum/hiss and a blacker background. Gain with the ECC82 is much lower than the stock 6N1 or the 12AX7 equivalents. I prefer the lower gain for use with the K701. My MP-5 now has a fun sound, with deep, strong bass and a punchiness that wakes up the K701 and gives them a "Grado injection".

 Compared to the RSA Raptor and Lehmann BCL, the MP-5's bass is stronger but relatively loose, muddy and less detailed. It is an enjoyable sound, though, that makes less well-recorded pop and electronica music sound good through the K701.

 I use the Mullard CV4004 with the K1000, and the sound is decent. I suspect the K1000 doesn't sound like it should, though. There's still some treble harshness and a thinness that's different from the MP-5 and K701 combo.


----------



## suharsh

I bought the unit from Audiogon from Bill who was recommended on Head-Fi. Anyone else bought from him? Is that a US unit? Seemed to be a nice guy. Would really be very disappointed to find out that I got a non-US unit


----------



## Elephas

(click thumbnails to view)

 Philips EM87 Magic Eye




 Siemens EM87 Magic Eye












 Pair of Mullard ECC82 and Siemens EM87 Magic Eye


----------



## devwild

Did swapping out the magic eye make a noticeable change?


----------



## KB

Elephas,

 Thanks for the photos, can you tell us where you picked up your tubes? I am going to try the ones you bought since the ones I bought dont work properly for my version.

 THX

 Ken


----------



## Elephas

I will spend some more time comparing the 3 magic eye tubes I have.

 My initial impression is the difference between the Philips and Siemens isn't that great. Both seem better than the stock magic eye, but again the difference isn't that great.

 The most gain in quality came from changing the stock 6N1 pair to the Mullard ECC82. Sound is noticeably cleaner, crisper and more detailed. The darker background is the biggest difference.

 I bought the tubes from eBay and Yahoo Taiwan Auctions.


----------



## jjcha

Interesting.

 Okay, so I've had this back for a few days now. lan's modded mine, by greatly simplifying it (man he even disabled the "Power On" light!) for pure line-inputs > volume knob > speaker jacks, which are out to my K 1000. He changed some parts around, but my understanding is that there isn't anything major on this front (yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 We've got the jj tubes in it. Still using the K 1000.

 A few thoughts.

 1. It is interesting how apparent cable differences are in this rig. The Cablepro Earcandy versus Zu Pivot are pretty darned different. Before the sound was too hard with the Zu, so I used the Earcandy. Now, after the mods, it isn't too hard with the Zu, so I kept it with the Zu for the initial 3 or 4 days. But a few days ago I swapped back to the Earcandy, which is softer/warmer/more midrange-focused, but there is something cohesive about the tonal balance as well as soundstaging. I've been happy with the Earcandy for the last day or two, so it's staying in for now.

 2. With the K 1000 - the soundstage is nice and wide and filled out. It's not super deep/3D though. It does sound nice though. Soundstage sounds like the K 1000 drivers are angled out further than they actually are.

 3. With the Earcandy, I'm surprised how soft the K 1000 can sound. Actually, even with the Zu (which does sound a bit less so) I'm surprised at how soft it is, relative to the modded T-Amp. I think this will be a lot more listenable to most people than the modded T-Amp. The Dared is certainly more natural. Anyway, by calling it soft, it's not to say there isn't detail. But it is notably smoother and rounder sounding.

 4. Dared has very nice power with the K 1000. I'll put the volume at my listening levels (which is loud) with the K 1000's drivers angled out at max, and it's still not distorting. Usually, with max angles and my loud volume, the sound distorts pretty bad. This is pretty impressive.

 5. Can't say yet too much how much is the mods, how much is the jj tubes. I'll do some tuberolling later with the stock tubes.

 Well, the Dared is definitely doing well. It's definitely not the best amp I've heard for the K 1000. But it powers them pretty well, and fits nicely in my computer rig right now. And it has a sound which is pretty enjoyable. Though I think the cable is perhaps too warm/rounding for me, despite its cohesive sound. I think we can do better with cables/tubes, even not touching the components.

 More exploring/tuberolling to come... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best,

 -Jason


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## kwkarth

Just bought a Dared MP5 today. So far, right out of the box, it's pretty impressive for the dinero.

 I have some alternate tubes on order and will report more when gets broken in and "rolled." Now if I could only find that spkr adapter for my K1000....


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## kwkarth

I'm very pleased with the sound of this amp so far. With stock tubes, it comes across as a little bright around 10kHz through the USB port, driving the AKG-K501s. The 701s are a bit better balanced sounding. When fed by my SACD player, it sounds more balanced with either can. 

 As far as noise floor goes, with no signal, it's virtually silent, even with the gain wide open, on line in or USB in. I couldn't be happier about that! 

 About 7 o'clock is volume all the way off, and at 9 o'clock it's a little louder than I would normally listen driving the 701's or the 501's. at 12 o'clock, it's very loud and far more so that I would ever listen. This is with the stock Chinese 12AX7s. 

 I have a matched pair of 12AX7EH-GOLD and a matched pair of 5751 EH GOLD on order from BOI Audioworks. Ken of Audio Line Out turned me on to the site. Their prices seem very reasonable. The 5751s should be perfect as far as gain goes, being about 70% if a typical 12AX7.

 My MP5 is the US version and I bought it from Ken @ Audio Line Out. This amp seems to be an exceptional value so far! 

 More about the sound when I get the new tubes and find my K1000 speaker cable adapter.

 Happy Listening!


----------



## Elephas

It's nice to see more members enjoying this inexpensive amp.

 I wouldn't call my Dared MP-5 accurate, neutral or resolving, but it is definitely euphonic and enjoyable.


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## sxr71

I got one coming on Thursday and I can't wait!


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## kwkarth

[size=large]*Updated*[/size]
 Comparing the stock tubed Dared MP5 with the Corda Aria driving The AKG K501, K701, and Sennheiser HD600 w/Cardas Cable, and Grado SR-200

 New note WRT driving high sensitivity cans like Grado:
 You MUST make sure you're supplying good clean power, using a good power cord and using good cable hygiene and cables.
 If you meet these minimum standards, the MP5 will be silent even while driving the Grados with the stock high gain 12AX7s.

*Pro Corda Aria:*
The blacks are a wee bit blacker on the Aria.
The Aria has about 1/2 octave better response at the bottom end.
The Aria exhibits slightly better resolving power & pluck definition on strings with a slightly etched quality.

*Pro Dared MP5:*
I find the Dared has far more gain with the stock tubes compared to the Aria.
The Dared sounds more open than the Aria and does better on all stringed instruments and voices. Strings and voices are rounder, fuller, more musical sounding.
The Aria can be made to clip when driving the 501/701s, and even on rare occasions, the HD-600s.
The Dared has more than enough power for the 501/701s. No chance of clipping. Bottom line, headroom is for practical purposes infinite with the Dared and limited with the Aria.
 I think this is my favorite amp for my Grado SR-200s

 Stay tuned, more to come!

 [size=large]*Update:06/28/06 22:40 PDT*[/size]
 I received 2 matched pairs of tubes today from Boi. Both Russian made, gold pinned Electro Harmonix 12AX7 and 5751.

 I like them both better than the stock 12AX7s that came with the unit.
 The 5751s work well with the conventional cans, such as the 701s, 501s, Sennheiser HD-600/Cardas cable, Grado SR-200s, Beyer DT-250/80.

 The 12AX7s with their higher gain, work better with the AKG K1000s. Yeah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found my adapter cable. 

 The Dared is a big improvement over the SAC K-1000 amp. In the SAC while driving the K1ks there is a distinct metallic coloration, particularly evident at higher volumes. Funny thing is, that coloration is not there when driving conventional cans like the K501s.

 That coloration and the associated HF hardness is totally absent with the Dared. I am stoked that I could get such good sound out of such an inexpensive amp for the K1ks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I'll have to let the tubes run in a while and report back. I've also dialed in some EQ in iTunes to make the response neutral to my ears. More about that later.

 [size=large]*Update:06/30/06 06:30 PDT*[/size]
 I've been running in the 5751s over the past day and I think they're becoming my favorite tubes. These are the Electro Harmonix gold pinned versions that are supposed to be the same construction as the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The 5751 variation has 70% of the gain of a 12AX7 and seems to be a good fit in this amp, even when driving the K-1000s.

 I am still amazed at how fast and resolving the K1000s sound out of this amp. All of the slowness and metalic coloration I had associated with the K-1000s seem to be confined to the SAC K-1000 amp. Funny, because SAC does not sound all that bad when driving the K501s. Anyway, I'm really digging this combo of the MP5, AKG K-1000, EH5751G tubes. Still hard to believe for $330USD plus another 35 or so bux for the extra tubes. Awesome bang for buck!

 [size=large]*Update:07/01/06 17:40 PDT*[/size]
 Still letting things burn in. Still loving the music. Running in the 5751s. Thought I would post a pic or two:

 With the "bonnet" down.





 With the "bonnet" up.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_Comparing the stock tubed Dared MP5 with the Corda Aria driving The AKG K501, K701, and Sennheiser HD600 w/Cardas Cable 

*Pro Corda Aria:*
The blacks are a wee bit blacker on the Aria.
The Aria has about 1/2 octave better response at the bottom end.
The Aria exhibits slightly better resolving power & pluck definition on strings

*Pro Dared MP5:*
I find the Dared has far more gain with the stock tubes compared to the Aria.
The Dared sounds more open & more full than the Aria and does better on all stringed instruments and voices.
The Aria can be made to clip when driving the 501/701s, and even on rare occasions, the HD-600s.
The Dared has more than enough power for the 501/701s. No chance of clipping. Bottom line, headroom is for practical purposes infinite with the Dared and limited with the Aria.

 Stay tuned, more to come!_

 


 The main reason I bought the MP-5 is because I believe I'm having headroom issues with my current amplifier. I remember in one thread we were discussing the K701s and their tendency to create a "vibrato" sound when deep bass is played through them at moderate to high volumes. 

 Most people felt that it was the headphone, while you seemed pretty sure it was the amp. Well, I just decided to try another amp and what what I'm hearing this amp should have no problems at all driving the K701s.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sxr71* 
_The main reason I bought the MP-5 is because I believe I'm having headroom issues with my current amplifier. I remember in one thread we were discussing the K701s and their tendency to create a "vibrato" sound when deep bass is played through them at moderate to high volumes. 

 Most people felt that it was the headphone, while you seemed pretty sure it was the amp. Well, I just decided to try another amp and what what I'm hearing this amp should have no problems at all driving the K701s._

 

I agree, this amp will have no problems driving the 701s until they smoke, or your ears bleed, whichever comes first...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just be aware that it also rolls off the bottom half octave.


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## kwkarth

Updated post # 206 @ 22:45 PDT
goto post 206


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## biged

How does the Dared work with grado's/alessando's?

 Ed


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biged* 
_How does the Dared work with grado's/alessando's?

 Ed_

 

See my update above


----------



## humanflyz

Has anyone tried driving AKG K340s with the DARED? It has more gain than my current amplifier, and I'm wondering if the K340s will benefit from the higher voltage. 

 And also, I'd be interested in how it drives speakers and K1000s.


----------



## biged

Thanks Kwkarth. I missed that last line.

 Take care, Ed.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biged* 
_Thanks Kwkarth. I missed that last line.

 Take care, Ed._

 

No problem biged. I have some tubes coming that should work even better, particularly with high sensitivity cans like the Grado's.

 Stay tuned to this thread for updates.

 Happy Listening!


----------



## biged

Thanks ''K''.

 Ed


----------



## mbd

I should forewarn that I am only just starting to get into amps etc so take my opinions with the appropriate amount of salt. I do not consider myself an audiophile, but I do know what floats my boat and what doesn't.

 With that said, I was lucky enough to sample both the Dared MP5 and the X-Can v3 a couple of days ago at Carlton Audio Visual in Melbourne AU. I can only speak for my 'untrained' ears, but as far as enjoyment of the music goes, the X-Can v3s were far better than the Dared MP5, using a sony d303 as the source and Grado SR-80s as the headphones. Maybe I'm a cretin or something, but the X-Can was far better at bringing a smile to my face. I really felt much more involved with the music when listening on the X-Cans - when music would crescendo into a blast it really drew you in. I had a great time to be honest just being able to listen to music through either amp though - it was lovely to hear music you've heard hundreds of time before in a new way. 

 Of course the X-Cans do not have a USB DAC, and from what I've read around these forums and other review sites, the MP5's headphone quality can be improved by rolling the tubes. That said, Pinkfloyd's x-can mods are also apparently to improve the X-cans.

 I didn't end up buying either as I found a second hand Perreaux sxh2 for around the same price as the dared/xcan costs new, and hope it will be even better again .


----------



## kwkarth

Post #206 updated 22:40 PDT
GoTo post 206


----------



## Fang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd* 
_I should forewarn that I am only just starting to get into amps etc so take my opinions with the appropriate amount of salt. I do not consider myself an audiophile, but I do know what floats my boat and what doesn't.

 With that said, I was lucky enough to sample both the Dared MP5 and the X-Can v3 a couple of days ago at Carlton Audio Visual in Melbourne AU. I can only speak for my 'untrained' ears, but as far as enjoyment of the music goes, the X-Can v3s were far better than the Dared MP5, using a sony d303 as the source and Grado SR-80s as the headphones. Maybe I'm a cretin or something, but the X-Can was far better at bringing a smile to my face. I really felt much more involved with the music when listening on the X-Cans - when music would crescendo into a blast it really drew you in. I had a great time to be honest just being able to listen to music through either amp though - it was lovely to hear music you've heard hundreds of time before in a new way. 

 Of course the X-Cans do not have a USB DAC, and from what I've read around these forums and other review sites, the MP5's headphone quality can be improved by rolling the tubes. That said, Pinkfloyd's x-can mods are also apparently to improve the X-cans.

 I didn't end up buying either as I found a second hand Perreaux sxh2 for around the same price as the dared/xcan costs new, and hope it will be even better again ._

 

You may not heard the Dared MP5 the rest were using as there is a US only version thus the one you heard could be a different one.


----------



## MoltenLava

Hi guys. Very nice thread going on here. I bought Dared MP 5 about a month ago to use in my office. I have a loudspeakers system at home, but I'm a newbie when it comes to heaphones. This is my first headphone amps, and second tube gear next to Musical Fidelity X-10 v3. I use a modest Sennheiser headphone with Dared.

 So far I've been enjoying the sound a lot. Also it has been a lot of fun playing with different tubes. I mainly use it connected to my MacBook as a USB speaker, utilizing its internal DAC. I found the headphone output of my MacBook to be somewhat harsh and sterile, and really welcomed the smooth tubed sound of Dared. I have since bought two pairs of tubes, JJ / Tesla ECC83S, and NOS Sylvania 5751. I found both sets of tubes added nice improvements to the sound. The dark and muddy feeling is now completely gone! I especially liked JJ ECC83S, as it sounded much more vibrant and detailed. I wasn't too impressed with Sylvania, maybe because I had too high of expectation going in for NOS tubes.

 Although my experience is mostly positive, I still have some concerns with the build quality. First there is this annoying 60Hz hum. With my Sennheiser I can't really hear them that much, and it doesn't bother the listening. But when I tried my friends headphones, that probably have better bass extension, the humming sound was really annoying. The only power source I tried is from my office wall outlet, and there is a possibility that it's related to the power source rather than from Dared's internal power supply. Maybe someday I'll bring it home and see what happens, and also do an A/B with my loudspeaker system.

 Yesterday, I have experienced a strange glitch with my MP 5. I had the headphones on, and listening to music as usual, and all of a sudden the music started sounding all distorted! It started sounding like slightly off-tuned FM radio stations. I could hear the music, but the tune was all wacky. I first did power cycle several times, but that didn't fix it. Then I thought maybe the tubes were shot, so I exchanged the tubes, but the same problem. Then I have left it powered off and cool down for an hour, and then when I turned it back on it finally sounded normal. I never had this problem before, even after hours and hours of continuous operation. I hope this was a one time glitch, but if I hear it again I'll be really concerned.

 Other than these two problems, I'm having a lot of fun with this little Dared. It sounds great, looks awesome, and fun watching the cats eyes tubes while listening. I hope everyone enjoys as much as I do!


----------



## KB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MoltenLava* 
_Hi guys. Very nice thread going on here. I bought Dared MP 5 about a month ago to use in my office. I have a loudspeakers system at home, but I'm a newbie when it comes to heaphones. This is my first headphone amps, and second tube gear next to Musical Fidelity X-10 v3. I use a modest Sennheiser headphone with Dared.

 So far I've been enjoying the sound a lot. Also it has been a lot of fun playing with different tubes. I mainly use it connected to my MacBook as a USB speaker, utilizing its internal DAC. I found the headphone output of my MacBook to be somewhat harsh and sterile, and really welcomed the smooth tubed sound of Dared. I have since bought two pairs of tubes, JJ / Tesla ECC83S, and NOS Sylvania 5751. I found both sets of tubes added nice improvements to the sound. The dark and muddy feeling is now completely gone! I especially liked JJ ECC83S, as it sounded much more vibrant and detailed. I wasn't too impressed with Sylvania, maybe because I had too high of expectation going in for NOS tubes.

 Although my experience is mostly positive, I still have some concerns with the build quality. First there is this annoying 60Hz hum. With my Sennheiser I can't really hear them that much, and it doesn't bother the listening. But when I tried my friends headphones, that probably have better bass extension, the humming sound was really annoying. The only power source I tried is from my office wall outlet, and there is a possibility that it's related to the power source rather than from Dared's internal power supply. Maybe someday I'll bring it home and see what happens, and also do an A/B with my loudspeaker system.

 Yesterday, I have experienced a strange glitch with my MP 5. I had the headphones on, and listening to music as usual, and all of a sudden the music started sounding all distorted! It started sounding like slightly off-tuned FM radio stations. I could hear the music, but the tune was all wacky. I first did power cycle several times, but that didn't fix it. Then I thought maybe the tubes were shot, so I exchanged the tubes, but the same problem. Then I have left it powered off and cool down for an hour, and then when I turned it back on it finally sounded normal. I never had this problem before, even after hours and hours of continuous operation. I hope this was a one time glitch, but if I hear it again I'll be really concerned.

 Other than these two problems, I'm having a lot of fun with this little Dared. It sounds great, looks awesome, and fun watching the cats eyes tubes while listening. I hope everyone enjoys as much as I do!_

 

Moltenlava,

 What tubes came with your Amp? 12AX7's or the 6N1's? Do you have this problem with the stock tubes? I have owned both amp types and I had no luck with the amp that came with the 6N1's and when you try and put 12ax7 type tubes in a MP5 that came with a 6N1 tube weird things happen like what you described, at least that was my experience. If yours came with the 6N1 try a ecc85 tube. And I would also recommend a power cord upgrade. Also I have found that when I use the stock iPod dock and charger it has a slight hum, which does not really bug me too much esp. when I am driving speakers. When I use a dedicated iPod to RCA cable the hum is pretty much zero.

 I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with the amp, hope you can figure it out and correct the situation.

 Btw so far Sovotek's are my fav tube, I have tried, ecc83s JJ, Ei Silver, GE JAN 5171, Mullard (used and very un matched, but do sound very nice) 

 Ken


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cletus Bocephust* 
_Moltenlava,

 What tubes came with your Amp? 12AX7's or the 6N1's? Do you have this problem with the stock tubes? I have owned both amp types and I had no luck with the amp that came with the 6N1's and when you try and put 12ax7 type tubes in a MP5 that came with a 6N1 tube weird things happen like what you described, at least that was my experience. If yours came with the 6N1 try a ecc85 tube. And I would also recommend a power cord upgrade. Also I have found that when I use the stock iPod dock and charger it has a slight hum, which does not really bug me too much esp. when I am driving speakers. When I use a dedicated iPod to RCA cable the hum is pretty much zero.

 I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with the amp, hope you can figure it out and correct the situation.

 Btw so far Sovotek's are my fav tube, I have tried, ecc83s JJ, Ei Silver, GE JAN 5171, Mullard (used and very un matched, but do sound very nice) 

 Ken_

 

I've been thinking about Moltenlava's problem too and I think I can simulate what he described by overdriving the "digital preamp" in iTunes. This effectively overruns 0VU at the external DAC. Moltenlava, if this happens again to you, try opening the EQ in iTunes and moving the Equalizer "Preamp" slider down a few notches. See if this solves your problem.
 Cheers!


----------



## kwkarth

See update posted in post 206.

Click here to go to post 206


----------



## Bu11dog

I bought a used Dared MP5 from Cletus Bocephust 2 weeks ago and love how it sounds with stock tubes. My MP5 is the Asian model which uses 6n1 tubes. 

 After reading couple of posts on Head-Fi, I found ECC82 type tube may work with MP5 so I bought a pair of 12AU7 ECC82 ELECTRO-HARMONIX from xBay for $10. I have been running them on my MP5 for 2 days straight now and they sound much better than the stock tubes and I love the extra details from those tubes.

 MP5 has became my favoriate amp to power my speakers and cans!


----------



## kwkarth

[size=large]*Update:07/01/06 17:40 PDT*[/size]
 See update posted in post 206.

*Click here to go to post 206*


----------



## MoltenLava

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cletus Bocephust* 
_What tubes came with your Amp? 12AX7's or the 6N1's? Do you have this problem with the stock tubes?_

 

Hi Cletus. Mine is the US version, and it came with Shuguang 12AX7's. I haven't used the stock tubes for a long time, but if I recall the humming was already there with the stock Shuguang. The humming is not too audible with my headphones anyways, and it does not bother me that much. The distortion only happened once, and it could very well be a one time glitch. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_Moltenlava, if this happens again to you, try opening the EQ in iTunes and moving the Equalizer "Preamp" slider down a few notches. See if this solves your problem._

 

Cletus, kwkarth, thanks for the advices! I think I'll have to try Sovtek / Electro-Harmonix tubes and see how much I like it compared with my JJ ECC83S.


----------



## devwild

It's really fascinating to watch each person settle on their own preferred tubes. I don't see source mentioned much in these later posts... if I may ask, would each of you be willing to list your complete favorite configuration with the Dared?

 Optical input > Presonus CentralStation > Dared MP-5 (Jan GE 5751) > Onix RS250MKII / AKG K701


----------



## jjcha

My rig's taken a totally different direction. I'm using my modded Dared to feed a STAX transformer to power my electrostatic SR-X mk. 3. Right now the Sovteks are in it, though I haven't tuberolled yet to see which I prefer (stock, Sovteks or jj's) in this config. I also have a pair of B&W LM1 speakers hooked up to the speaker pass through on the transformer.

 The Dared works fine in this capacity. A lot better than the T-Amp I had been using. No idea how this compares to the monster electrostat amps or transformer/speaker amp combos. Honestly, it's nice enough I'm not in a rush to try other combos.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## KB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_It's really fascinating to watch each person settle on their own preferred tubes. I don't see source mentioned much in these later posts... if I may ask, would each of you be willing to list your complete favorite configuration with the Dared?

 Optical input > Presonus CentralStation > Dared MP-5 (Jan GE 5751) > Onix RS250MKII / AKG K701




_

 

G5 (using a cotton ipod to RCA cable I peddle off my website)---->Dared MP-5 (Sovotek's) > Grado RS-1's or Bose 201's (again some silver speaker cables in house made)

 Elphas, I too bought some matched pairs of the JAN GE 5751's but oddly I found them quite flat on my set up? If anyone would like to try them let me know, perhaps we could get a tube exchange going? I sould be receiving a tube tester soon (ebay) and will be checking all the tubes I have to try find a good match for the MP5.

 Cheers,

 Ken


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cletus Bocephust* 
_I too bought some matched pairs of the JAN GE 5751's but oddly I found them quite flat on my set up?_

 

Can't say I didn't warn you... it's definitely a personal thing, and depends on the configuration. The RS-1s are a very different headphone from the K701. It's not surprising that you would prefer different tubes.

 This is actually why I inquired about complete configurations


----------



## ghiberti

Wow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 it's a great match with RS-1 and K701. I think it may not be bad with Senns.
 is there anyone think it's better or at least on a par with un-Pinkfloyded x-can v3 like me?
 mine is a chinese version. ah, it sould be... becuase I've exchanged stock tubes with russian saratov 6N1P
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 guys, enjoy your new toy. let a crazy tube rolling begins~~


----------



## Elephas

RME HDSP 9632 > AES/EBU > Lavry DA10 > Dared MP-5 (non-US version) with Mullard ECC82, Siemens EM87 Magic Eye > K701

 Cletus, I haven't been using the Sylvania 5751 since getting the Mullard ECC82. The ECC82's have a lower noise level and darker background.


----------



## drarthurwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cletus Bocephust* 
_Moltenlava,

 What tubes came with your Amp? 12AX7's or the 6N1's? Do you have this problem with the stock tubes? I have owned both amp types and I had no luck with the amp that came with the 6N1's and when you try and put 12ax7 type tubes in a MP5 that came with a 6N1 tube weird things happen like what you described, at least that was my experience. If yours came with the 6N1 try a ecc85 tube. And I would also recommend a power cord upgrade. Also I have found that when I use the stock iPod dock and charger it has a slight hum, which does not really bug me too much esp. when I am driving speakers. When I use a dedicated iPod to RCA cable the hum is pretty much zero.

 I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with the amp, hope you can figure it out and correct the situation.

 Btw so far Sovotek's are my fav tube, I have tried, ecc83s JJ, Ei Silver, GE JAN 5171, Mullard (used and very un matched, but do sound very nice) 

 Ken_

 

The 6N1 tube is a Chinese equivalent of the Russian 6N1P:

 6N7 - USA
 ECC40 - Europe
 6N1 - Chinese
 6N1P - Russian
 6N1P-EV - Russian military


----------



## unistructure

*@ kwkarth: * In reference to your comparison in post #206, are you basing your comparison between the MP5 and the Aria through both of their internal DACs or are you using a separate source and only comparing the internal amp section of both amps?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *unistructure* 
_*@ kwkarth: * In reference to your comparison in post #206, are you basing your comparison between the MP5 and the Aria through both of their internal DACs or are you using a separate source and only comparing the internal amp section of both amps?_

 

I compared both input sources. 

 To my ears, the DAC in the Aria is better sounding than the DAC in the Dared. I can partially compensate by tweaking the equalization in the digital domain, but the Aria sounds better in this respect.

 Using line in, the Dared with the EHG5751s is better than the Aria in all respects except for the bottom 1/2 octave and absolute noise floor.
 The Dared drives my K1000s, the Aria obviously does not. (This is why I bought the Dared in the first place.)

 To keep things in perspective, I could live happily with the Aria alone as it is a wonderful sounding amplifier for my 701s/501s, 600s, etc.

 To my ear, the Dared has far more headroom, is quicker, fuller, more liquid/musical, less grain, and with more 3D sound staging than the Aria using the line in on both fed from the same SACD source.

 The bottom 1/2 octave and absolute noise floor are subtle enough issues that most people would probably not even be aware of those differences.

 Happy listening!


----------



## MrFaust

How does the Dared MP-5 compare to the Darkvoice THD-336?


----------



## gates_2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* 
_How does the Dared MP-5 compare to the Darkvoice THD-336?_

 


 I would also like to know this... If anyone has tried.... Or if anyone can compare zhaolu/darkvoice to the dared


----------



## Meyvn

Having heard the darkvoice, I can tell you that it's very, very warm. It's not a hybrid, like this one is, so from what most people say about the Dared it seems the difference will be in body, smoothness and detail. The darkvoice was amazing in the regard that it totally smoothed out the inherent harshness in the SA5000, making a headphone I would normally consider far too fatiguing to listen to for long periods into one I genuinely enjoyed. However, it did of course sacrifice some of the detail that headphone is so well known for, so I'm not sure if I could recommend it for other headphones or not, as I haven't been able to get the same synergy out of it, though I do admit my testing of it was fairly limited.


----------



## Elephas

I've experienced channel imbalance using the MP-5 with a few pairs of tubes:

 Mullard CV4004
 Electro-Harmonix 12AX7
 Groove Tube 12AX7

 The Mullard ECC82 continues to sound great. No imbalance, low noise and a fun sound with the K701.

 Switching between Siemens and Philips EM87 Magic Eye tubes seem to make little difference.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_I've experienced channel imbalance using the MP-5 with a few pairs of tubes:

 Mullard CV4004
 Electro-Harmonix 12AX7
 Groove Tube 12AX7

 The Mullard ECC82 continues to sound great. No imbalance, low noise and a fun sound with the K701.

 Switching between Siemens and Philips EM87 Magic Eye tubes seem to make little difference._

 

Were they matched pairs to begin with? Hard to believe they were if the imbalance followed the tubes.


----------



## Bu11dog

I am also experiencing channel imbalance issue with a match pair of ELECTRO-HARMONIX 12AU7 ECC82.






 The funny thing is the tubes worked perfectly fine the first one week then the channel imbalance started. I changed back to stock tubes and the issue was gone. Very strange 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered a match pair of Mullard ecc82 and hopefully it will work better.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_I've experienced channel imbalance using the MP-5 with a few pairs of tubes:

 Mullard CV4004
 Electro-Harmonix 12AX7
 Groove Tube 12AX7

 The Mullard ECC82 continues to sound great. No imbalance, low noise and a fun sound with the K701.

 Switching between Siemens and Philips EM87 Magic Eye tubes seem to make little difference._


----------



## kenship

Hi! I just bought the MP5. I need some help regarding noises/buzz

 I noticed 2 kinds of noises: first one being the tube noise (I suppose) where I have more buzz when I turn up the volume, that's fine with me.

 The second one is causing me trouble: it's from the USB connection, I'm using the stock cable and if I jiggle around the USB port at the amp. I'll hear these buzz, now I'm lifting the cable a bit higher to min. those buzz, I'm not sure if it's the cable, my USB connection or whatever reason, does anyone hear experience similar things??

 I appreciate any help.

 Kenneth


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kenship* 
_Hi! I just bought the MP5. I need some help regarding noises/buzz

 I noticed 2 kinds of noises: first one being the tube noise (I suppose) where I have more buzz when I turn up the volume, that's fine with me.

 The second one is causing me trouble: it's from the USB connection, I'm using the stock cable and if I jiggle around the USB port at the amp. I'll hear these buzz, now I'm lifting the cable a bit higher to min. those buzz, I'm not sure if it's the cable, my USB connection or whatever reason, does anyone hear experience similar things??

 I appreciate any help.

 Kenneth_

 

Ken, it is difficult to troubleshoot anything from someone else's descriptions, but for what it's worth, I'll offer my opinion.

 The first problem you mention, buzz/hum that increases with your set volume level. This tells me that the noise is coming from your source input, not from the amp itself. It's not normal, not acceptable, and you shouldn't have to put up with it. You could have a bad interconnect cable to your source, or your source itself could have the hum. Your source might have a different ground source than your Dared, thereby setting up a ground loop. Those are a few things that could be the source of that problem. What do you hear if you unplug the input cables from the amp? Do you still hear the same buzz/hum? Is it there, but different? Does it still change with your volume setting?

 The second problem... The USB cable could be bad. Have you tried another cable? Have you tried any contact cleaner/enhancers?

 Have you contacted your vendor?


----------



## munkong

Hi, all dared mp5 user

 if I buy dared mp5 for my Grado RS-1
 which tube is *best for RS-1* ?
 which is favorite tube to use in dared mp5 ?

 I don't have knowledge about tube amp
 please advice me 

 Thanks


----------



## ghiberti

munkong, 
 if you get an asian version-quite probably, right?-,
 use 6N1 and its equivalents-refer to drarthurwells' post-. 
 do not use 12ax7 and its equivalents mentioned here.
 they're for american version.


 6N7 - USA
 ECC40 - Europe
 6N1 - Chinese
 6N1P - Russian
 6N1P-EV - Russian military


----------



## Elephas

The tube pairs I've experienced channel imbalance may not be matched. The imbalance is very lopsided.

 Channel imbalance also experienced with: JJ ECC803S

 No channel imbalance and great sound with: matched Mullard CV4003/12AU7WA

 The Dared MP-5 units sold in Taiwan, where I bought mine, come with 6N1 tube pairs but the ECC85 is also recommended and listed in sales literature as standard configuration.


----------



## munkong

dared's dealer in thailand not import at this time yet
 but it's coming soon

 I don't know what's tube stock come with asian version
 I not understand what the different between 
 american version & asian version 

 it's different in voltage?
 and different in tube ?
 why

 can you tell me


----------



## Elephas

Dared's literature indicates the US model is different from units sold in other regions. I'm not sure what exactly the differences are.

 Taiwan is 110V and US-spec audio gear is sold and used here, as well as some Japanese-market models. 

 I believe Thailand is 220V and might be the same as the China/HK market model. You should probably talk to your local Dared dealer regarding the differences.


----------



## munkong

2 questions

 - which's the upgrade tube in dared mp5
 - which's recommend tube in dared mp5

 Thanks again


----------



## Elephas

My MP-5 unit came with the 6N1 tubes and is probably not the US-version.

 I use it with Mullard ECC82 and CV4003 pairs with excellent results. I've tried Siemens and Philips-labelled EM87 Magic Eye tubes, although the sound changed very little.

 I don't use the stock tubes.


----------



## munkong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_My MP-5 unit came with the 6N1 tubes and is probably not the US-version.

 I use it with Mullard ECC82 and CV4003 pairs with excellent results. I've tried Siemens and Philips-labelled EM87 Magic Eye tubes, although the sound changed very little.

 I don't use the stock tubes._

 



 excellent results that mean no hum ?
 how does of your ECC82-CV4003 sound
 can you describe a short?

 in your opinion, this amp is synergy with RS-1 or not ?
 it's cheap, but I'm not sure about performance

 I sure, dared mp5 in Thailand is the same version as your country (Taiwan)

 Thanks


----------



## ghiberti

I inquired a dared staff about tube rolling and got this reply.

 "Yes, we have two version MP5, one is normal version, the other is US version. 
 You can't use 12ax7 replace of 6N1 in the normal version, please note."

 I think we can use 12ax7 with an asian version but it may have bad effect on the amp in the long run. but I'm not sure of anything...

 btw, it goes very well with RS-1. I can hear very little amount of hum with stock tubes.


----------



## Elephas

The Grado RS-1 exhibits a very slight hiss with the Mullard ECC82s and CV4003. It is noticeable with no music playing and volume at zero. The hiss with these tubes don't increase much as the volume is turned up (no music) compared to other tubes I've tried.

 Using the RS-1, the ECC82 and CV4003 pairs both have a fun and bassy sound. They don't make the MP-5 sound as refined or detailed as the RSA Raptor, but it is an enjoyable sound that is good with fast-paced pop music. Bass is very strong and thumpy. Overall sound tends towards warm lushness. There is less of the treble harshness or brightness that can sometimes be annoying.

 Note that my RS-1 has been recabled and might differ from a stock unit. I usually use the RS-1 with the Raptor, and use the MP-5 mostly with the K701, SA5000 and HD650.

 When connected to the CEC DA53 source, which has fixed volume output, the MP-5's gain is very high, even with the relatively lower-gain ECC82. In this case, I use the Lehmann Black Cube Linear as preamp between the DAC and the MP-5.


----------



## sxr71

Well, either it is this or the Music Hall MMF-2.1. I haven't really even used it much my headphones. I decided to try it with a pair of NHT Super Ones I have lying around here and I am amazed! I brought my Super Ones over because I can't physically fit my main speakers in my current apartment to use with my regular amp, but it turned out that it needs a repair. So I decided to hook up this little 13w amp to this pair of 86dB/w power hungry speakers expecting pretty crappy performance. 

 I remember the difference through these speakers when I went from my 35w NAD 304 to my 175w Plinius - these are very hungry speakers. 

 So with small expectations I played music through this setup and now I cannot believe what I am hearing! Sure there are weaknesses like the ability to convey the "power" of some pieces and compressed dynamics. However the soundstaging is simply amazing and I don't know how to describe it but my music sounds so real and so natural. I almost don't miss my Von Schweikerts right now. I couldn't be happier with what I have now, and it looks like I won't be listening to headphones for a while.


----------



## KB

I got an email from the US distributor of the MP5's (Who I buy them from in blocks of 10 for resale on my website) and he told me that a Japanese company has bought the rights to the MP5 from Dared and thus they will no longer be for sale as of the end of Aug. Bummer. Anyone hear anything similar to this?

 Ken


----------



## devwild

From what I've seen a couple of companies are rebranding this... One of them doing a bum-ugly etching on the front. At least two variants include the formerly elusive matching ipod dock. It looks as though Dared intended to OEM this product from the start.

 The biggest shame I see is that it means Dared probably won't be working too hard on a successor.


----------



## KB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_From what I've seen a couple of companies are rebranding this... One of them doing a bum-ugly etching on the front. At least two variants include the formerly elusive matching ipod dock. It looks as though Dared intended to OEM this product from the start.

 The biggest shame I see is that it means Dared probably won't be working too hard on a successor._

 

Yeah I saw that "bum-ugly" etching, it looked just plain "ugly" to me. I was too hoping that there would be new version released. If I hear anything I will report back.

 ken


----------



## granodemostasa

Elephas: hello, i'm thinking of replacing the headfive in my sig with this amp. However, first I would like to know if it can do well with the HD650 (which tubes) and what would i need to do to make it work with an HF1. 

 Also, without a preamp, would it still sound good, straight out of the dac?

 Thankyou


----------



## Elephas

Hi granodemostasa.

 I used to own a Corda HA-1 MkII. If the Headfive is as good or better, I don't think the Dared MP-5 would be a better match with the HD650 or HF-1.

 I like the way the HD650 sounds with the Corda amps, the Lehmann Black Cube Linear and RSA Raptor. With the tubes I've tried so far, the MP-5 sounds best to me paired with the K701. It gives the K701 a smooth-sounding bassy sound that can be good for some music. To me, the HD650 is already quite smooth and bassy, and benefits less. 

 The HF-1 does OK with MP-5. Bass impact, soundstage and air are OK, but details are lacking. I don't recall trying the HF-1 with a Corda amp.

 I don't use the MP-5's USB DAC.


----------



## mbd

My understanding from research is that the the Dared is pretty good as an amp for speakers but not quite as good out of the box for headphone amplification without swapping the tubes... I've heard mostly great things about the sound when connecting the right speakers to them, but mixed reviews with headphones. That said, the tubes you get with it appear to vary depending on whether you're in America or not, and the one I tried was in Australia, so YMMV.


----------



## volcomjerk

So I've read this whole thread and I'm about to get the american version. How do I know which tubes I can put in here? Can anyone recommend upgraded tubes i could get in the future for this? The whole tube naming convention is so confusing (yes I read the Tube FAQ).


----------



## kwkarth

So in this thread, you'll see many recommendations for tube upgrades.
 I for one, recommended Electro Harmonix Gold pin 5751 as an outstanding replacement for the stock 12ax7s that come with the American unit.


----------



## donunus

oh, anyone try the 220 volt versions? Thats What I'm going to need since I live in the Philippines. Which tubes sound best with this model and where can I get it?


----------



## ghiberti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* 
_oh, anyone try the 220 volt versions? Thats What I'm going to need since I live in the Philippines. Which tubes sound best with this model and where can I get it?_

 

you can find all you want in this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 refer to drarthurwells's post. you can get some equivalents from him also.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* 
_oh, anyone try the 220 volt versions? Thats What I'm going to need since I live in the Philippines. Which tubes sound best with this model and where can I get it?_

 

Since the MP5's power requirements are modest, you might want to consider getting the US version, which is reputed to be slightly better quality, and use a 220v to 110v step down transformer to down-convert the voltage. The transformers are relatively inexpensive.
Click here for link to step down transformers
Click here for Step down and voltage Stabilizers


----------



## donunus

Any other things worthy of upgrading with this amp? Can the DAC be tweaked for example?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* 
_Any other things worthy of upgrading with this amp? Can the DAC be tweaked for example?_

 

Perhaps, but that's a later project for me. I plan to work on lowering the noise floor with sensitive cans first.


----------



## jjcha

I don't know if the DAC can be tweaked or not. Lan can speak better to upgrades than I can. That little DAC chip looked mighty tiny though.

 My MP-5 is midway in the mods. We'll see what better parts can do for it. What I'm really wondering is how good the solid state power amplification is in this thing. I'm worried that (well, after the DAC) is the weakest link.

 Best,

 -Jason


----------



## volcomjerk

I got my Dared MP5 today and I'm listening to it with stock tubes (US Version) and using an iPod with Ken's silver teflon interconnects. Add me to Team Dared MP5!

 All I can say is this thing is amazing even from the stock tubes. I'm listening with the K701s and this thing really helps bring more bass to my K701. Everything sounds a little more natural compared to the Headroom Desktop Amp. The HR Desktop Amp sounds great and really clear but it almost sounds too perfect? This isn't a bad thing but I'm listening to katie melua and there are lots of horns in this one song and it sounds more live rather than something being recorded in a studio.

 I've only been listening for about 1 hour and I'm going to switch with better tubes (Sovtek 12AX7LPS) and I'll see if that helps make it even better.

 So far I'm very impressed with this amp for this price. I could probably be just as happy with this amp if I had compared the Desktop Amp and this at a store. It also looks beautiful and that magic eye is pretty damn awesome. Ken's interconnect is also amazing! I haven't tried the DAC yet although I'm afraid I won't be happy with it since I'm hearing negative things about it in this thread.


----------



## xenithon

If anyone has a Dared MP5 in the 220-240V version which they may want to sell please let me know, I am trying to find one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . There are no distributors/agents here in South Africa, and I have tried contacting Dared via email for the past month with no response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers,
 X


----------



## Afrikane

Try Chevron Communications @ 083601003, they are supposed to the local distributors


----------



## xenithon

Hi guys. I am interested in the unit, and have the choice between it and the Meier Corda Aria. For the prices I can get them, the aria is $100 more expensive and thus I am keen on the MP5. The version I can get is the 220V which I need, from Taiwan. It comes with the 6N1P tubes but the seller said he would also include 6N2P tubes. Does all that sound in order? 

 Cheers,
 X


----------



## Elephas

I believe the Corda Aria is US$450 from Meier Audio? If you're paying US$350 for a non-US version MP-5 that comes with 6N1 tubes, it's too much. I paid about US$180 for my 110V non-US version from Yahoo Taiwan auctions.

 In this case, I would go for a US-version unit and use a 220V to 110V step-down transformer.

 For only US$100 more, the Corda Aria might be the better value.


----------



## xenithon

Hi there,

 Yes it is the Taiwan version, 220V. It is $370 with shipping to me. The Corda Aria is $470 with shipping...but $100 is not a negligible amount 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That is why I am trying to find a Corda Aria in the trading forums - if you know of anyone with one for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the fact that it is voltage switchable is a big help).

 Cheers,
 X


----------



## mbd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* 
_That is why I am trying to find a Corda Aria in the trading forums - if you know of anyone with one for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the fact that it is voltage switchable is a big help)._

 

What, like this one?

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178755


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd* 
_What, like this one?

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178755_

 

Already spoke to him today. His price is too high - wants around US$440 shipped to me. Does not make sense when they are $470 shipped new


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* 
_Hi there,

 Yes it is the Taiwan version, 220V. It is $370 with shipping to me. The Corda Aria is $470 with shipping...but $100 is not a negligible amount 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is why I am trying to find a Corda Aria in the trading forums - if you know of anyone with one for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the fact that it is voltage switchable is a big help).

 Cheers,
 X_

 


 If I were you, I'd probably try to get one from Yahoo Taiwan auctions or some other local source for a lot cheaper than $370. Alternatively even getting the US version for around $300 + shipping and then buying a step-down transformer locally is a better deal. A seller on Audiogon can sell you the US version.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sxr71* 
_If I were you, I'd probably try to get one from Yahoo Taiwan auctions or some other local source for a lot cheaper than $370. Alternatively even getting the US version for around $300 + shipping and then buying a step-down transformer locally is a better deal. 

 ...A seller on Audiogon can sell you the US version._

 

So can Ken from ALO. I would much rather buy from him because he's a Head-Fi sponsor, he's honest, and a straight shooter.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_So can Ken from ALO. I would much rather buy from him because he's a Head-Fi sponsor, he's honest, and a straight shooter._

 


 Or Ken of course. I didn't realize that a Head-Fi sponsor was selling the Dared.


----------



## pencechp

And, Ken's stock is dwindling. I wasn't going to buy until next year, but the fact that there's no more of these being produced and there's not that many left for sale led me to go ahead and pull the trigger this morning. We'll see how it sounds when it gets here...


----------



## pencechp

Also, one other question for the handful of other people who've got this amplifier: do you know of any headphones it has particularly good synergy with? I was thinking K-501 myself, as a classical and jazz listener. Has anyone paired the K-501 and the Dared? How about the DT-880?


----------



## Elephas

I use a pre-'05 DT880 with Cardas cable and I like the way it sounds with the MP-5. Bassier and more weighty. In this configuration, the DT880 sounds more similar to the HD650, except with more treble energy and larger soundstage.

 I'm currently using Mullard CV4003 pairs with a Siemens EM87, which results in a very slight background hum with the DT880.

 Not a bad match, add me to Team Dared MP-5/pre-'05 DT880.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pencechp* 
_Also, one other question for the handful of other people who've got this amplifier: do you know of any headphones it has particularly good synergy with? I was thinking K-501 myself, as a classical and jazz listener. Has anyone paired the K-501 and the Dared? How about the DT-880?_

 

I have the 501, the 701, and the K1000 and I love them all with the Dared. I'm using EH5751G tubes as well. Gold pinned tubes are a perfect match for the ceramic / gold tube sockets in the amp. The construction is just like the 12AX7LPS, and the gain is 70% of the 12AX7. Perfect set up for the AKGs.


----------



## pencechp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_I have the 501, the 701, and the K1000 and I love them all with the Dared. I'm using EH5751G tubes as well. Gold pinned tubes are a perfect match for the ceramic / gold tube sockets in the amp. The construction is just like the 12AX7LPS, and the gain is 70% of the 12AX7. Perfect set up for the AKGs._

 

Does the Dared do a sufficient job of pulling nice bass out of the K501s? I've heard that the amplifier has much to do with the 501's bass response.


----------



## Melletron

Can anyone recommend good pair of bookshelf speakers for this amp? I have a pair of Boston CR57 and the bottom is totaly missing. I could get a powered sub but I want to keep this particular setup simple and elegent. Thx.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Melletron* 
_Can anyone recommend good pair of bookshelf speakers for this amp? I have a pair of Boston CR57 and the bottom is totaly missing. I could get a powered sub but I want to keep this particular setup simple and elegent. Thx._

 

How much bottom end do you expect from a 4.5" "woofer?"


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Melletron* 
_Can anyone recommend good pair of bookshelf speakers for this amp? I have a pair of Boston CR57 and the bottom is totaly missing. I could get a powered sub but I want to keep this particular setup simple and elegent. Thx._

 

How about the B&W CM1?


----------



## Melletron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_How much bottom end do you expect from a 4.5" "woofer?"_

 

Yea, I know, but I got a great deal and figured I probably would need a powered sub. But recently I decided I really don't want to go that way, I want to keep this one neat.

 I'll check out the B&W CM1. They look great. Thanks.


----------



## pencechp

For what it's worth, I plan to pair mine with a set of PSB Alpha A/V speakers, though I haven't done so yet as my amplifier is still in the mail.


----------



## Melletron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pencechp* 
_For what it's worth, I plan to pair mine with a set of PSB Alpha A/V speakers, though I haven't done so yet as my amplifier is still in the mail._

 

Okay, thanks, I'll check them out. Let me know how they sound with the amp.


----------



## KB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_How much bottom end do you expect from a 4.5" "woofer?"_

 

I have mine pushing a pair of Bose 201's and I seem to be missing the top and bottom end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For under 200 bones I cant complain, I am not much of a speaker guy, yet... curse you Head-Fi!

 kb


----------



## rocktboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Melletron* 
_Can anyone recommend good pair of bookshelf speakers for this amp? I have a pair of Boston CR57 and the bottom is totaly missing. I could get a powered sub but I want to keep this particular setup simple and elegent. Thx._

 


 I am using the Dared to drive my Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. The Dared puts out TONS of bass, incredible for a 13watt amp. Not tightly controlled bass but lots of quantity. I am starting to think that Dared is designed as a speaker amp first and headphone amp second. The 3d imaging, focus, lush vocals out of speakers are AMAZING for an amp this price.

 Contrary to popular opinions around here I am not 'that' impressed with Dared as a headphone amp. It's good, but nothing special. On the other hand I am SUPER impressed with Dared as a speaker amp. 

 Studio 20's have 6.5" woofer and goes to 50hz. In a smallish room with proper corner placement you get very satisfying bass. You can find them used for $275-400. Used ones come up periodically on both ebay and audiogon. To my ears it kicks the ***** out of B&W bookshelf speakers selling for similar price.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I am starting to think that Dared is designed as a speaker amp first and headphone amp second._

 

There is absolutely no doubt to that.


----------



## Melletron

Thanks, Rocktboy. This place is so awesome.


----------



## pencechp

Woot! It's here! (P.S.: Thanks to Ken for an all-around pleasant purchase and prompt and safe shipping!)


 How does it sound? Well, much to my chagrin, I pull it out of the box, wire it up, and get two things:

 * Very quiet output (voume knob at 3-4 o'clock, which I NEVER do, as I listen VERY quietly)
 * LOTS of buzz.

 Step 1: Switch from the Sennheiser 280s to my KSC-75s (yeah, I know, the K501s will be in the mail soon, but until then...). This helps some.

 Step 2: Obviously: switch from the USB dac to my Chaintech AV-710. Noise floor drops probably 10 dB. No joke.

 In conclusion, the internal DAC is a SIGNIFICANT part of the noise problems on my unit. I can honestly say that if I tube-roll this thing a little, it should be *black*.

 I'm absolutely IN LOVE with its sound for orchestral music (Beethoven and Mahler tried so far), jazz (Buena Vista Social Club, Eddie Daniels, Miles Davis), and even rock (Rage Against the Machine, Cake so far). This little guy can jam. Now, to crack 'er open, tube-roll and wire the inputs directly to the volume control as per Ian's mod....

 Will post results and more listening tests over time, particularly with speakers after I finish braiding together my CAT5 speaker wire tonight.

 EDIT: I'm a clarinet player, and I think I just made a personal vow never to settle for the sound of a clarinet reproduced by solid-state gear again.

 EDIT NUMBER TWO: If this thing is as source-sensitive as it is, what's a nice (cheap) USB dac to pair with it? Something nice and warm -- a Lite DAC-Ah? Foobar II?


----------



## Melletron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I am using the Dared to drive my Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. The Dared puts out TONS of bass, incredible for a 13watt amp. Not tightly controlled bass but lots of quantity. I am starting to think that Dared is designed as a speaker amp first and headphone amp second. The 3d imaging, focus, lush vocals out of speakers are AMAZING for an amp this price.

 Contrary to popular opinions around here I am not 'that' impressed with Dared as a headphone amp. It's good, but nothing special. On the other hand I am SUPER impressed with Dared as a speaker amp. 

 Studio 20's have 6.5" woofer and goes to 50hz. In a smallish room with proper corner placement you get very satisfying bass. You can find them used for $275-400. Used ones come up periodically on both ebay and audiogon. To my ears it kicks the ***** out of B&W bookshelf speakers selling for similar price._

 

I'm really interested in this as a speaker amp. I see the Paradigm Studio 20 v3for $800.00. Will this amp power them ok?


----------



## rederanged

I see the MP-5 billed as a tube/MOSFET hybrid on several sites, e.g.:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin.../dared_mp5.htm
http://ipastudio.com/forums/showthre...8363#post18363

 Looking at the specs for the TDA7265, there is no indication that this is a MOSFET amplifier. Are these guys mistaken, or am I just ignorant of the definition of a MOSFET amp? (The latter is certainly possible, as I'm just starting to learn about all this stuff.)

 This is just idle curiosity, really. I have an MP-5 and like the sound that comes out of my headphones, regardless of whether the creaminess (see first link) comes through MOSFETs or plain old transistors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pencechp* 
_For what it's worth, I plan to pair mine with a set of PSB Alpha A/V speakers, though I haven't done so yet as my amplifier is still in the mail._

 


 That's exactly what I would have suggested. PSBs are sound good and are priced well, also using a sensitive pair of speakers is important when your amp can only put out 13w/channel.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I am using the Dared to drive my Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. The Dared puts out TONS of bass, incredible for a 13watt amp. Not tightly controlled bass but lots of quantity. I am starting to think that Dared is designed as a speaker amp first and headphone amp second. The 3d imaging, focus, lush vocals out of speakers are AMAZING for an amp this price.

 Contrary to popular opinions around here I am not 'that' impressed with Dared as a headphone amp. It's good, but nothing special. On the other hand I am SUPER impressed with Dared as a speaker amp. 

 Studio 20's have 6.5" woofer and goes to 50hz. In a smallish room with proper corner placement you get very satisfying bass. You can find them used for $275-400. Used ones come up periodically on both ebay and audiogon. To my ears it kicks the ***** out of B&W bookshelf speakers selling for similar price._

 


 I've used it with a pair of horribly inefficient NHT Super Ones and it sounds amazing! You're right about focus, imaging and the lushness of vocals and even instruments. Even with the inefficient Super Ones they sound quite good, though lacking in dynamics a little. I honestly stopped listening to my headphones after hearing what this sounded like. 

 I also took them home to power my Von Schweikert VR-5s (old model) and even though they are a lot more efficient (91dB/w as opposed to 86dB/w) the amp really struggled to power them, it would just run out of power even at moderate listening levels. However I think it has to do with massiveness of the room that they are in (they are currently set up in the basement) and the need for lots of power in such a large room. On simple, not too bass heavy songs the amp sounds exceptional.


----------



## Melletron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocktboy* 
_I am using the Dared to drive my Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. The Dared puts out TONS of bass, incredible for a 13watt amp. Not tightly controlled bass but lots of quantity. I am starting to think that Dared is designed as a speaker amp first and headphone amp second. The 3d imaging, focus, lush vocals out of speakers are AMAZING for an amp this price.

 Contrary to popular opinions around here I am not 'that' impressed with Dared as a headphone amp. It's good, but nothing special. On the other hand I am SUPER impressed with Dared as a speaker amp. 

 Studio 20's have 6.5" woofer and goes to 50hz. In a smallish room with proper corner placement you get very satisfying bass. You can find them used for $275-400. Used ones come up periodically on both ebay and audiogon. To my ears it kicks the ***** out of B&W bookshelf speakers selling for similar price._

 

I think I'm gonna go with the Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3. The newer version 3 has a 7" woofer as opposed to the 6.5 " woofer in earlier versions. Also it's a bit more sensitive than the earlier versions. So it should be easier to drive. This rig is going to be in a smallish room. It is rated down to 50Hz, but in one of the reviews I've read, the reviewer measured it down to 30Hz. According to the reviewer the bass rolls off gradually at 50Hz and is still significant at 30Hz. I'll probably be ordering them in September, but untill then I'm still open to suggestions. Thanks to all, I think this is gonna make a great speaker amp.


----------



## stan11003

I don't have one yet but I thought I'd help the discussion. Here is some background on the usb dac

http://www.chipdig.com/datasheets/pa...7/PCM2702E.php


----------



## vorlon1

I bought one of these from Ken at audiolineout and got it last week. I was extremely disappointed in the sound. The treble was so raw it was unlistenable. Here is an email I sent to Ken telling him the outcome after this early "trauma."

 "I thought I'd send you an update on the dared amp. As you may recall, I found it almost totally unlistenable, with the K 701's it was incredibly shrill sounding. So, I ordered three sets of matched pair, low-noise screened tubes. Sovtek 12AX7LPS, Tung-Sol 12 AX7, and JJ electronic ECC803S. Well, all of these sounded 1,000,000% better than the chinese stock tubes. Night and day difference. I am using the Tung-Sol's right now and the amp sounds very good. Lots of power, very clear, no tubey fatness, but rather a very crystal clear sound that is still definitely not solid state. So, things turned out ok, but the stock tubes made the high end so raw I couldn't believe it with the 701's. An interesting sidelight was, my DT 880s sounded quite decent with the stock tubes, although better now, this thing has so much power that it really opened them up and gave them some life, although I am still listening with the 701's generally. So, this unit certainly can sound very good, but damn, it is all about the right tubes. Also, this thing is dead quiet, no hum, no hiss."

 So, with the right tubes this unit sounds excellent, piano music is particularly crisp with good weight, maybe just on the bright side of neutral to my ears, but very nice, with a lot of power. Drives my old 600 ohm DT 990's easy as pie, and makes last year's DT 880s stand at attention and salute.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* 
_I bought one of these from Ken at audiolineout and got it last week. I was extremely disappointed in the sound. The treble was so raw it was unlistenable. Here is an email I sent to Ken telling him the outcome after this early "trauma."

 "I thought I'd send you an update on the dared amp. As you may recall, I found it almost totally unlistenable, with the K 701's it was incredibly shrill sounding. So, I ordered three sets of matched pair, low-noise screened tubes. Sovtek 12AX7LPS, Tung-Sol 12 AX7, and JJ electronic ECC803S. Well, all of these sounded 1,000,000% better than the chinese stock tubes. Night and day difference. I am using the Tung-Sol's right now and the amp sounds very good. Lots of power, very clear, no tubey fatness, but rather a very crystal clear sound that is still definitely not solid state. So, things turned out ok, but the stock tubes made the high end so raw I couldn't believe it with the 701's. An interesting sidelight was, my DT 880s sounded quite decent with the stock tubes, although better now, this thing has so much power that it really opened them up and gave them some life, although I am still listening with the 701's generally. So, this unit certainly can sound very good, but damn, it is all about the right tubes. Also, this thing is dead quiet, no hum, no hiss."

 So, with the right tubes this unit sounds excellent, piano music is particularly crisp with good weight, maybe just on the bright side of neutral to my ears, but very nice, with a lot of power. Drives my old 600 ohm DT 990's easy as pie, and makes last year's DT 880s stand at attention and salute._

 

I noticed something similar with K701s also. Oddly enough it seemed to sound fine with speakers, but when I tried the amp with my K701s I noticed during a section of music with drumstick hits on the rim of the drum and some high hats (? I think that's what they are called) that I couldn't really hear the distinctive sound of the drumstick hits. It just sounded like one big shower of brightness. I almost felt like equalizing some "body" into those drumsticks it was that bad. On speakers the sound of the high hat and the drumsticks were clearly discernable. 

 Anyhow, thanks for the report on which tubes I should get. I think I'm going to use these more for headphones and deploy my regular amp for speakers when I get it fixed. The Dared sounds awesome with speakers, but after a while you just yearning for some better dynamics.


----------



## Computersmith

Well I thought I'd chime in on this thread. My MP5 and cables arrived from Ken, Tuesday this week. I've been burning it in and listening periodically since then. It gets about four hours on time per night and had about 17 hours on yesterday, so bear in mind these are impressions with about 30 hours of burn in time on both the amp and cable.

 So far I'm impressed, this is a great price Vs performance amp. I did listen right out of the box with the stock tubes and while I don't think they sounded as horrid as has been reported. They are none the less sub par and have been relegated to emergency backup status. I purchased the upgrade kit from Ken and it was well worth the extra money. The tubes Ken sent are a significant improvement over the stock tubes. As a side not on the upgrade kit, the power cord that was included is thick enough to be considered a deadly weapon in some states 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. As for the built in DAC. I have to agree with the general consensus and say that it is just OK. Using the amp via USB and built in DAC causes the sound to be kind of thin with a narrower sound stage and less detail. Also it seems to me that every frequency is rolled off in this configuration. It's also rather sibilant when using the DAC. The one thing I noticed is that the mid bass seems to be minutely more detailed when using the built in DAC but that doesn't make up for it's shortcomings.

 Stocked with fresh tubes and using the line out from my iPod things get significantly better. The sound stage opens up and there is far more detail and clarity. The bass is certainly there but right now is slightly out of control. However during my listening intrusions into the burn process, I can tell that situation is improving all the time. I can see that this will be a great performer with even more hours under it's belt. It makes my 701s very happy cans even now and it performs very well with every type of music I can throw it's way. The only exception being certain very detailed orchestral pieces, there are few of these pieces where some loss of detail occurs and instruments get mixed. Now with even more layered and complex electronic recordings (DJ Krush, Paul Van Dyk, etc) this never occurs. So that may just be the lack of burn in time or a shortcoming of the amp itself, but I'll find out soon enough. Even if it's a shortcoming of the amp it would be, in my opinion a very slight if not totally insignificant shortcoming depending on just how much and what type of classical you listen to.

 As an aside on the classical front, listening to Bocelli "Sacred Arias" on this rig is a pure delight. On a non classical front, DJ Krush+MP5+K701= one huge smile on my face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (p.s. where is our K701 smiley).

 Some have reporting a humming in it's stock configuration. Even with the stock tubes I didn't notice any hum at all unless there was no music at all and the volume pot was turned well past 1 o'clock. With the upgraded tubes that Ken sent the hum wasn't noticeably audible until around 3 o'clock. However in either case the hum was so slight that unless there is no signal at all and the volume pot is turned all the way up it's almost totally inaudible.

 Now is the sound that this little gem produces equivalent to a pair of Carver Silver Seven's attached to a set of Martin Logan's? No, not by any stretch of the imagination. However at just over 300 for the amp, and the ability to easily attain very good tubes for it. I don't think it can be beat without buying previously owned next level equipment. As such I would have no hesitations at all in recommending this amp to anyone.

 My next steps are: A good set of speakers (recommendations anyone?), because this amp is crying out for a good set of speakers. Then an outboard DAC so that I can feed it directly from my Powerbook (older Powerbook so no combo optical/headphone jack). Last but certainly not least a few sets of tubes that have been recommended to me by people here who currently own the MP5.

 So there you go, some views from a total bottle freak with his new baby. Be gentle I'm no where near a trained reviewer and I freely admit that while I can be far more critical in my listening, that I am not these days. The slight case of tinnitus that I have becomes unacceptably noticeable when I listen very critically. As such take anything I say here with as much salt as your cardiologist will allow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## vorlon1

Very nice write up. The only real differences in my experience and yours is how really terrible the stock tubes sounded to me, happily fixed by the tung-sol's, and the fact that even when I turn this thing up to full volume with no signal it is dead silent, no hum, no hiss.


----------



## Computersmith

Very cool, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Yeah I noticed not much difference in experiences.

 I suspect that the almost non existent hum that I can discern now will be eliminated in the future with even better tubes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* 
_Very nice write up. The only real differences in my experience and yours is how really terrible the stock tubes sounded to me, happily fixed by the tung-sol's, and the fact that even when I turn this thing up to full volume with no signal it is dead silent, no hum, no hiss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## pilot232

I am thinking about having my technician do some parts upgrades to my MP-5 and finding a schematic would be very helpful. Anyone have one that they would be willing to share? 

 I use my MP-5 both as a headphone amp with Senn 600s and as a speaker amp. I am thinking about upgrading the two resistors on the headphone output with Caddocks, provided there is enough room for them if their legs are bent 90 degrees so that they would lay parallel to the bottom plate of the amp. I am also thinking about upgrading some of the electolytic caps, especially the input caps on the Philips TDA7265 opamp. There are also a pair of dark green 1.0uf film caps near one of the 12AX7 sockets that could be upgraded but I am not sure what these caps do in this circuit.

 Any suggestions or insights on these or other potential mods would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## mrarroyo

Has any of you tried 5751? They have 70% gain of a 12AX7 but are much less microphonic.


----------



## pilot232

mrarroyo,
 I am using two GE 5751s in my MP-5 and they sound very nice. The GEs are considered by many to be one of the better variations of this tube. I also like the added warmth of my Mullard 12Ax7s in this amp. 

 I think there was some earlier discussion of 5751s in this thread so you might want to do a search to see what other folks have already said.

 Cheers.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_Has any of you tried 5751? They have 70% gain of a 12AX7 but are much less microphonic._

 

If you read back in this thread, you'll see that myself and a few others are using this tube. Specifically I use the EHG5751.

 The Electro Harmonix Gold 5751 is built with the same geometry as the 12AX7LPS. I think it sounds great and gold pins in a gold socket is the best way to go as far as metal to metal.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_If you read back in this thread, you'll see that myself and a few others are using this tube. Specifically I use the EHG5751.

 The Electro Harmonix Gold 5751 is built with the same geometry as the 12AX7LPS. I think it sounds great and gold pins in a gold socket is the best way to go as far as metal to metal._

 

Just lazyness on not re-checking. Also old age, I forgot I had read as much.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_Just lazyness on not re-checking. Also old age, I forgot I had read as much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem! This is one looooong thread!


----------



## vorlon1

Has anyone tried changing the 6E2? If so, what effect did it have? I don't recall seeing that anywhere, but maybe I missed it? Thanks.


----------



## Cerith

I checked the ALO website and it seems they are Sold Out. Does anyone know of another source to buy a US version? I have found a couple on sale on E-Bay but I believe they are the Asian models.


----------



## pilot232

I bought mine on Audiogon from this seller: 

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ube&1160526032


----------



## Cerith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pilot232* 
_I bought mine on Audiogon from this seller: 

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ube&1160526032_

 

Thanks!


----------



## stan11003

Just got my amp from audiolineout, I love it. Great sound lots of seperation. It's solid and beautiful. Love the little touches like the white gloves, cables and the little brush for dust. I only had about 20 minutes to listen after setup had to run out. I used it with the usb dac which installed it self in like a minute. Started up foobar with some Jack Johnson and John Mayer. Ok first I noticed is lots of detail and soundstage through my crapy bookshelves and even more through my ATH-900LTD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Bass however seems to be... well just not right. This could be EQ since I had one setup through the reciever. I'll play with more. DAC wise its tons better than the soundcard on my motherboard but its thin. I will probably look into a emu card or that new X-purity card. Will post more later when I get back home.


----------



## lionel marechal

Not much activity recently so I just wanted to revive it a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A tube amp smiley would be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






















 I replaced my hd580 by the hd650 with blue dragon v2. Althought the reutrn on investment is not that hude, to my ears, I am happy I did it. Fluidity and liquid are the words that come to my mind.

 I am going back to France in 02/2007 after a 5 years stay in US, and I decided to go back with the dared mp5, I will get a power converter to have it work there (I have the US version).

 I tried the sa5000 i nthis setup, was a big fan at the beginning, some scelsi quartets were amazin, some organ as well. But then after several days, I was going back more and more to my hd580, so I sold them to somebody who would enjoy them and got the hd650 from Kim (plainsong).

 A happy camper !
 Lionel


----------



## AndyKatz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* 
_How about the B&W CM1?



_

 

Well, I'll be gosh-didilly-darned ... I bought an MP-5 from Insom the other day, planning to use it for headphones and DAP duties. Well, I'm listening to Laurie Anderson's Strange Angels on my ER4s powered by the MP5 because it's past two am. But I tried hooking up my CM2s to it the other day, and now I can't get enough. Any of the low power shyness the CM2 displays is gone. The Dared has opened them up. That's all I've got. I'm still making the transition from tin-eared gearhead to true audiophile, so my descriptive powers lack. But damn. I'm can't believe this squirrel-powered amp is driving my CM2s (along with powered sub) better than my AX570.

 Andy

 Ps: Isn't the CM series a damned fine looking speaker?


----------



## Gradofan2

So... I can assume there is no noise / hum / hiss with the 110 volt US version of the Dared MP5 once the tubes have been upgraded???


----------



## Elephas

I've experienced high and low levels of background hiss and hum using different power cords with the Dared MP-5. The Zu Birth produces a higher level of hiss, while an ASR Audio power cord has less.

 A variable-volume source such as the Lavry DA10 yielded the best results. A fixed-volume source may make the the MP-5 too loud and the volume control range too narrow.

 Using my non-US version MP-5 with 2x Mullard ECC82 and ASR power cord; Lavry DA10 source set at 20...

 No hiss:
 K1000

 Very slight hiss, not obvious if environment is not quiet:
 K701

 Slight hiss:
 HD650, DT880-'03

 Some hiss/hum:
 RS-1, HF-1, HHF-1, MS2i, SA5000

 Loud hiss/hum:
 AD2000, W5000, W2002, L3000, ES7


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* 
_I've experienced high and low levels of background hiss and hum using different power cords with the Dared MP-5. The Zu Birth produces a higher level of hiss, while an ASR Audio power cord has less.

 A variable-volume source such as the Lavry DA10 yielded the best results. A fixed-volume source may make the the MP-5 too loud and the volume control range too narrow.

 Using my non-US version MP-5 with 2x Mullard ECC82 and ASR power cord; Lavry DA10 source set at 20...

 No hiss:
 K1000

 Very slight hiss, not obvious if environment is not quiet:
 K701

 Slight hiss:
 HD650, DT880-'03

 Some hiss/hum:
 RS-1, HF-1, HHF-1, MS2i, SA5000

 Loud hiss/hum:
 AD2000, W5000, W2002, L3000, ES7_

 

So then... no combination of, or particular set of tubes, or power cable, or CDP, or DAC eliminated the noise - correct? 

 I would not be using the DAC circuit of the Dared - I'd be using it only as an amp with my other CDP, or DAC.

 And... oh yes... I guess your's is the "non-US" version, but is yours the 110 volt version... or the 220 volt version?

 Perhaps my question should be... is there any noise with the "110 volt US version" with the right tubes and PC?


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* 
_So... I can assume there is no noise / hum / hiss with the 110 volt US version of the Dared MP5 once the tubes have been upgraded???_

 

No, you can not assume that. Some of them have the problem and some do not, it's luck of the draw.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* 
_No, you can not assume that. Some of them have the problem and some do not, it's luck of the draw._

 


 Thanks for the warning...

 I contacted all the current vendors of the Dared MP-5 and they all confirmed that the MP-5 does have some noise, hiss, hum in the output, that can not likely be eliminated... and, they all confirmed that the neither the distributors, nor the manufacturer would honor the warranty for noise, hiss and hum.

 So... "a word to the wise" for those out there that might, otherwise consider buying the Dared MP-5 - buy it for it's appearance... and not it's sound quality, unless you don't mind noise, hiss, and hum in the output... because there is a very high probability that your unit will have it, whether the "non-US, or US version." Perhaps, you can minimize it with the right tube selection, or headphone selection, but, if you must have a totally dead silent background... better pass on the Dared MP-5. 

 And... that's "straight from all the horses' mouths."


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* 
_And... that's "straight from all the horses' mouths."_

 

Yeah, I had a similar conversation with them once upon a time, they basically came to the conclusion that they didn't properly modify the circuit enough to eliminate noise in high-efficiency headphones. They were basically admitting that they were too used to designing for speakers, and said they would redesign it in a future version (hopefully there is a future version).


----------



## Melletron

When I bought this amp it was going to be for my desk, headphone use first and speaker use second. After reading what a great speaker amp it is I bought a pair of Boston Acoustics CR57. I found them to be completely lacking bass and lifeless with no soundstage. Discouraged, I asked, in this thread, what speakers you all were using. Of course I got some great replies and suddenly I had some awesome choices. After researching, I decided to go with a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 20v3. Thanks Rocktboy! I hooked them up on my desk and that lasted for about 10 minutes. Way too close to each other and to me, but they sounded good so I moved them out into the room which is L shaped about 20x17. After about 9' of the 17' it juts out 8' to form the L. The floor is carpeted with a couch in the middle of the room about 5' from the back wall. I had not bought stands for them yet and had them sitting on wooden chairs. That was MUCH better! The bass was plentiful and soundstage was HUGE. And the volume.. I could not believe how much I was getting from 13 watts. The soundstage was wide and deep with pinpoint imaging. With the speakers not broken in yet and the amp so far only hooked up to an iPod, I knew this amp had great potential. I then hooked it up to a Pioneer Elite DVD player and this amp really opened up. It's an older player with a great DAC but no bass management at all. Time to get stands because I already knew the amp had graduated from desk status to room status. After mounting them on stands I was blown away by how much better the soundstage became. Voices and instruments were squarely placed in their proper spaces in the room with no smearing. These speakers are bookshelf monitors that sound like they have the soundstage of floorstanders. Fine tuning the speaker placement was easy and precise because of the accuracy of the soundstage, proving that this amp images very well. And the sound. Lush, accurate, dynamic, open detailed textures, great layering and very clean. The speakers are very neutral and voices sound very real. My amp is one the clean ones. I could only hear noise through my Ety ER4 P/S with the volume at around 2 o'clock, way too loud for headphones. Out of my speakers I get nothing. It was time to pick up a new player with bass management. I bought a Denon 1930ci universal player and plugged in an old Klipsch powered sub. Much better DAC and the sub is a welcome addition rounding out the bottom. A sub is needed in a room this size, as I originally placed the speakers in the corners, which helpled with the bass but at the expense of some mid range detail loss. I moved the speakers to about five feet from the side walls and about two feet from the back wall for added depth in the rear. I noticed that I was hearing some resonance from the stands so I filled them with sand to deaden them. Wow that really helped the Paradigms to dissappear. I highly recommend doing that. Lastly, I bi-wired the speakers. HUGE improvement with clarity, openess and solidity of bass. Much cleaner too. There was certain SACDs that I thought sounded kind of harsh, especially in the midrange of electric guitars, until I bi-wired the Paradigms. Not so anymore! That harshness is completly gone. I can't get over the improvement. Bi-wiring is a must. Man this amp sounds good. I bought it from Ken at audiolineout for $330.00. What a great deal! But I'm not done yet. I need a good set of RCAs. Right now I only have a set of Monsters. I'm going to email Ken to see what he thinks about making me up a set of cotton RCAs. The only thing holding me up is, until I get a stereo stand, I won't know how long the cables need to be. I'm also going to upgrade the Denon to what, I don't know yet, mainly for better bass management. Any suggestions would be most welcome. And lastly, I'm going to by a Paradigm sub as the Klipsch does not blend in well with the speakers. I originally purchased this amp for headphone use but ended building a speaker system around it. Is it worth it? Yes, the amp is that good. What a pleasant surprise! I still can't get over how much volume 13 watts in a room this size gives me. This amp is clean and very dynamic with sonic characteristics that don't change even when played very loud. The Paradigms are a great match for this amp. I'm not using any bass or treble controls, nor do I ever feel the need to. I think I'm becoming a purist and I like it. That's how good this amp sounds to my ears. HUGE open and detailed soundstage with pinpoint accuracy. Lush and neutral timbres across the entire frequency range. Highly recommended. Thanks to everyone for there great speaker suggestions.


----------



## WopOnTour

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=15


----------



## Stooge

If anyone in western Canada wants to check out a version of the Dared-MP5 amp, London Drugs is selling a model called the "VUUM Audio VTi-B1." From a quick glance at the tubes it uses (6N1) it looks like this amp is based on non-US version. Also, while the Vuum unit doesn't have the USB DAC the Dared MP-5 had, it does come with speakers and an iPod dock. It is a very cool amp to see in person so if you live near a London Drugs run in and have a look.


----------



## mrarroyo

Today I listened to a Dared MP5, and I could not detect any noise of any kind. It sounds very nice with deep bass and clear highs, at $350 it seems like a good deal.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_Today I listened to a Dared MP5, and I could not detect any noise of any kind. It sounds very nice with deep bass and clear highs, at $350 it seems like a good deal._

 

Did you hear it at a dealer? If so, do you have the link you could provide?

 How did it compare to your various XCAN's, CanAmp, and Ear+ HD?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* 
_Did you hear it at a dealer? If so, do you have the link you could provide?

 How did it compare to your various XCAN's, CanAmp, and Ear+ HD?_

 

The unit I listened to belongs to Vorlon1. We had three home amps available: Dared MP-5, Heed CanAmp, and an un-modded X-Can V2. Amogst the three home amps we had my order of preference starting with the best would be: Heed CanAmp, Dared MP-5, and finally the un-modded X-Can V2.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_The unit I listened to belongs to Vorlon1. We had three home amps available: Dared MP-5, Heed CanAmp, and an un-modded X-Can V2. Amogst the three home amps we had my order of preference starting with the best would be: Heed CanAmp, Dared MP-5, and finally the un-modded X-Can V2._

 

Oh yes... and did you listen to it with Grados - I understand from other posts the noise (in those that have it) is most noticable with low impedence phones?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* 
_Oh yes... and did you listen to it with Grados - I understand from other posts the noise (in those that have it) is most noticable with low impedence phones?_

 


 Yes, I had my Grado RS-1 with me. We both listened to the amp with the RS-1 and could not detect any noise.


----------



## WopOnTour

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stooge* 
_If anyone in western Canada wants to check out a version of the Dared-MP5 amp, London Drugs is selling a model called the "VUUM Audio VTi-B1." From a quick glance at the tubes it uses (6N1) it looks like this amp is based on non-US version. Also, while the Vuum unit doesn't have the USB DAC the Dared MP-5 had, it does come with speakers and an iPod dock. It is a very cool amp to see in person so if you live near a London Drugs run in and have a look._

 

I heard through the grapevine that Dared has sold the "rights" to the MP-5 to a larger company. I've also seen this iPod dock variant marketed under the Fatman brand
http://www.bluebirdmusic.com/Fatman_Intro.htm
 WopOnTour


----------



## lionel marechal

DACsolution for Dared mp-5 ?

 I posted the thread in the dedicated source component but I thought I would ask the question here as well to the dared owners.

 I read in multiple places in the thread that the dac part of the dared is just a 'bonus' but not great. Some people already had DACs, some expensive and mentioned significant improvment with them.

 Does any body has a recommendation for a solution, if possible based on experience , that would not be above 250$ ? Currently my only 'sources' are USB or TBAMM optical out.

 thank you guys !
 Lionel


----------



## Headphony

The Little Dot III+ seems to have about the same features and price, minus the DAC on the MP-5. Does anybody know how these compare as:
 * a loudspeaker amp
 * a headphone amp

 I'm thinking the LDIII+ probably has the edge for headphones, but the MP-5 with speakers?


----------



## stan11003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionel marechal* 
_DACsolution for Dared mp-5 ?

 I posted the thread in the dedicated source component but I thought I would ask the question here as well to the dared owners.

 I read in multiple places in the thread that the dac part of the dared is just a 'bonus' but not great. Some people already had DACs, some expensive and mentioned significant improvment with them.

 Does any body has a recommendation for a solution, if possible based on experience , that would not be above 250$ ? Currently my only 'sources' are USB or TBAMM optical out.

 thank you guys !
 Lionel_

 

I got a Behringer ultramatch for $129 from zzounds.com


----------



## lionel marechal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I brought it home, and with the HD650s I am currently borrowing, the noise floor is more subdued than it was at work, in volume, nature, and fluctuation, so apparently it was getting some bad power or EMI when I initially set it up (at work, on lunch break, in a hurry)

 With the K701s the noise is extremely quiet, moreso than the 650s, and well within my tollerances. Oddly, it takes more volume to drive the 701s on this amp than the 650s. On my aria they are about equal. The AKGs really are a strange beast to drive.

 With the SA5000s the noise is significant and not really conductive to that as a solution unless I can find a way to get rid of the hiss (which I would like to because initial listening left intriguing results).

 The gain on this amp is too high for me to effectively use my microdac or CD player strait into it because of the stepped attenuator - even with my speakers, optimal volume is hidden in the first 4 notches of the SA (this is why I hate SAs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Due to differences in performance at different volumes it seems that in any case this amp would be happier with a good passive preamp in front of it to optimize levels. Unfortunately I have none so I'm using the internal USB DAC for now which can be controlled with my computer's system volume, unlike the microdac.



_

 

Same Issue here. So I am trying to find a solution.

 In the sound properties in Windows, I can adjust the 'wave' slider to lower the sound volume (with the microDAC, itunes). Do you guys know if it affect the quality of the sound ?

 I posted in Computers and in 'hot entries with dared', maybe too much posts but I thought if people subcribed to the threads I might get better answers. So sorry in advance with the multiple exposure to the question.

 To my ears/source/gear, I get improvment from the built in DAC to the external DAC. But might not be enough for the convenience/inconvenience (price, cables, volume, ...).

 Thanks for your input guys

 Lionel


----------



## bobgroger

I have been studying the picture in post #14. From following the wires from the headphone jack it appears they directly connect to the speaker binding posts. The speaker binding posts connect to the Chip Amp mounted to the heat sink in the middle of the chassis. So it appears this is a Gainclone-type amp with a tube preamp. Would someone who owns one of these be willing to get the number off the Chip so we could look up the data sheet and see what we really have?

 Bob G.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionel marechal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same Issue here. So I am trying to find a solution.

 In the sound properties in Windows, I can adjust the 'wave' slider to lower the sound volume (with the microDAC, itunes). Do you guys know if it affect the quality of the sound ?_

 

<Er, previous comment snipped for misreading. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 >

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobgroger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been studying the picture in post #14. From following the wires from the headphone jack it appears they directly connect to the speaker binding posts. ..._

 

The chip I don't know, but it has been mentioned previously that it is a tube pre, solid state power. The vendor even admits this, despite the fact that it's marketed by the rebadgers that have picked it up as a tube amp. Go figure, that's the consumer market.


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobgroger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been studying the picture in post #14. From following the wires from the headphone jack it appears they directly connect to the speaker binding posts. The speaker binding posts connect to the Chip Amp mounted to the heat sink in the middle of the chassis. So it appears this is a Gainclone-type amp with a tube preamp. Would someone who owns one of these be willing to get the number off the Chip so we could look up the data sheet and see what we really have?_

 

This chip? TDA7265

 (click thumbnails to view)


----------



## lionel marechal

A copy of my post in dedicated source at it relates to the dared as well and a previous inquiries about DAC with the dared.
 Lionel
 =================================
 I just got the great march. I am not sure but I think it is the one kool bubba had at the beginning before he decided to upgrade.
 Personnally, I am keeping it.

 From my listenings, in my system, great-march modded > microdac > fubar > built in DAC in the dared mp-5

 With the micro dac (again, in my system), the improvment had not reach the point where I think it is worth it (for my ears) . 

 With the great-march , I heard a more significant improvement in term of imaging and I would say 'effortless music', like it is flowing naturally. Other people have mentionned it, the microdac for a desktop use is not that great, cable in front, big power adapter, no true on/off switch (work around is to remove batteries and switch to battery to turn off).

 It is not night and day, it might be my setup, my ears, my whatever, but I think people are really exagerating when they are talking about night and day between DAC.

 Anyway, I like it, very robust and heavy, the power switch does turn the USB off (not on the Dared, which means you have to unplug the usb cable if you want to listen to an other source. a bit painfull).

 In my system, MP3 lame VBR HQ (ripped by myself) / Itunes / Usb Great march / Dared mp-5 / rs2 or HD650, the weak points might be the mp3, and maybe the dared. Maybe the Dared would be next to be updated, although I am not sure as it is damn sexy, and very convenient (Usb, headphones, speakers) and still a very nice sound in that price range.

 Lionel


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionel marechal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I like it, very robust and heavy, the power switch does turn the USB off (not on the Dared, which means you have to unplug the usb cable if you want to listen to an other source. a bit painfull)._

 

You can switch output devices in both windows and OSX. I never got around to finding a nice utility for Windows, but use SoundSource on OSX. Works quite nicely, though I only use it for inputs since I got the presonus. 

 Nice to know there are other USB DAC options cropping up. As more friends get interested in head-fi, the first thing they really need is a better computer source.


----------



## bobgroger

Seems to have decent specs.
http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/...onics/1478.pdf
 Still, the tubes might just be for Bling...

 Bob G.


----------



## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobgroger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still, the tubes might just be for Bling...._

 

.... a tube preamp is not just for bling.


----------



## Elephas

I'm currently using a pair of Telefunken ECC85 and a Siemens EM87 with my non-US model Dared MP-5. The ECC85 is the officially recommended tube for the non-US MP-5.

 These ECC85 tubes are quiet. Using the K701 and no music playing, a very very slight hum appears at 3 o'clock on the volume knob and increases very gradually towards max volume, where it reaches a low level of buzz/hum.

 Sound quality is excellent. The background is very dark, imaging is very accurate and soundstage is expansive. I think my MP-5 sounds best with these tubes, better than the lower gain Mullard ECC82 and Sylvania 5751 pairs I was using before.

 It doesn't quite match the RSA Raptor (with stock tubes, changing tubes in the Raptor also increases sound quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) in overall sound quality, but it's not a big difference. Comparing the amps with the K701, the Raptor has better details and has a more "sophisticated" sound, but the MP-5 doesn't exactly lie down and get stepped on. In fact, I believe most "normal" people might even think they sound similar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These tubes weren't cheap. Each cost me US$64, for a total of US$128. This is getting scary close to the US$180 I originally paid for the MP-5. Worth it? I think so, because it makes the MP-5 sound the best it can be (until the next set of tubes).


----------



## WopOnTour

Nice revisit post
 I can whole-heartedly agree with swapping out the Shunguang's
 I've replaced the 12AX7s with a matched set of Telefunkens and I'm very pleased with the results.A BIG (albeit somewhat expensive) improvement. 

 What I really love about this little guy is it's versatility. 
 I'm impressed with the Burr-Brown DAC and have mine connected permanantly to an HT-PC (via USB2 PCI card) and it's gobbled up pretty much everything I've feed it with GUSTO!

 I've even on occasion connected it to my vintage Klipsch LaScalas and it literally shook the house! (of course 105db sensitivity helps) Certainly not quite the vivid detail or bass extension as my 300B SET amp but very very enjoyable musicality for a mere fraction of the price. The Klipsch network (Model AA) really responds to the transparent "loading" of the MP5's transformerless OTL speaker outputs. I can easily recommend Klipsch Heritage as my speaker of choice for the MP-5.

 One of the best audio deals I've made in years...
 JMO
 WOT


----------



## albahaca

Did anybody modified the chassis and inlaid a plug of 1/4"?

 or

 Everybody uses the 1/8" to 1/4" adapter?


----------



## Melquiades

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently using a pair of Telefunken ECC85 and a Siemens EM87 with my non-US model Dared MP-5 ...._

 

I just registered to thank all the headfi community for it is a very rich source of information, especially Elephas who's description of the sound coming from the dared mp5 through the telefunken tubes is exact and made me buy them.
 Although my source is not what many can call "audiophile" (I'm thinking about a good external dac but my wallet says mercy right now) it can seem strange but really with the stock tubes the dared mp5 didn't sound different from the xfi elite pro direct output on akg 701. I have heard hours and hours of all types of music and tried very hard to find some difference. Well it seems that there's no difference at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or I'm definitely deaf.

 With the telefunfen tubes the improvement is exactly as described Elephas. Also the sound is less harsh (like there's more air in my case) than stock tubes and I can listen to music for a long time with no fatigue. With the stock tubes I feeled agressed. I now begin to enjoy the dared mp5.

 For those interested (audiophiles you can just stop reading 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I must add that the sound coming from the xfi elite pro is a little more accurate than the one coming from the usb dac. No joke even if the difference is not huge. That came obvious to me listening to Mahler's 5th symphonie where some intruments sounded less accurate through the usb dac (some instruments just sound wrong).
 But the soundstage through the usb dac is better than on the xfi alone or with the dared with stock tubes.

 Good listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Next step an external dac, than speakers, than ... . If someone has to much money to spend he will make a good friend here ...


----------



## Elephas

Hi, welcome to Head-Fi. I hope you'll enjoy your experience here, though your wallet might not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad to read about your good experience with the Dared MP-5 and tubes. Please note, however, I'm a tube noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and there are many members with more extensive experience with tube gear.

 One reason I was willing to pay the high price for the Telefunken ECC85 tubes was that I bought them from a shop which allowed me to test several tubes with their tube tester to find a well-matched and high-performing pair. Buying tubes over the Internet can be hit-or-miss. I experienced channel imbalance with some tube pairs, and am willing to spend more for one guaranteed good pair.

 Yes, an external DAC would be a good next step...


----------



## Hermitt

I just pulled the trigger on a US version of the Dared MP-5, that is claiming to have Shuguang 12AX7 tubes for my intry-level amp mostly to be used with my new MS-Pros. Are any of you guys still playing with this amp? Elephas, IIRC, you were also using a pair of RS1s with yours, but you don't have a US version, right? And the humming wasn't as noticable with your grados? I really love the way this amp looks, and the small size. The USB input is also nice because I can use my pc as a transport in addition to my dvd player which is using (according to the service manual) a PCM1753 DAC to play redbook cds and listen to audio dvds.

 Any other secrets that I can pick up will be greatly coveted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw.. those are some beautiful photos at the begining of this thread.


----------



## laol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is getting scary close to the US$180 I originally paid for the MP-5._

 

Well… 
 But not lives, I believe. 
 Where somebody can buy the Dared with less of U$200 now? 

 JohnBlue/Tommy Wu had answered my mail indicating the price of "257 USD shipment to your country" (I am in Brazil). 

 If I to spend more U$130 shipment with tubes, the total price would arrive in the U$390. 
 Its same price of a Musical Fidelity Xcan v3, aren't?...


 Of beginning, me it seemed that the great advantage on the MF or other models would be the integrated DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But if we now see the people here recommending the use of the Dared with a external DAC!…
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak622* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with Ian regarding the DAC. My Cambridge Audio 640c player has more detail than the USB DAC. But the USB DAC is convienient and allows me to play FLAC files from my computer. I think i will look into a squeezebox or other source to feed the amp down the road..._

 

Or perhaps this already paid everything what it costs, to who will be to use it with speakers of easy amplification, as here:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devwild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- The Dared holds onto such an impression of an excelent value for me because I now have it performing admirably as both a headphone amp and a speaker amp. Considering what I was looking at as alternatives, this saved me money._

 

(and let us not mention more the possible audiophile use as DAC?…)

 It can be that my English (very destrained and rusted) is betraying me, but, will be what I read, is what I have understood.
 Please, clarifies it if I am been very wrong... Thanks!


----------



## Hermitt

WOW... what a gorgeous ampflier!! I got the US version, but didn't get such a great price as some of the others here, but still, I think for $399 + shipping , this is gonna be a awesome introductory tube amp. Already, I am impressed how my MS-Pros are responding just to the USB input.

 I know a bunch of you have already been tube rolling with this little guy, has anyone compiled any kind of chart of which tubes work well as replacements for the chinese 12AX7? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man... listening to B Tribe - Sensual Sensual ... just awesome


----------



## Hermitt

Hmm... not much activity in this thread anymore. Has everyone given up on their Dareds? 

 I just have to add to all the other impressions here. This amp, even with the chinese 12ax7B tubes in it, is really making my MSPs sound spectacular. Very open and 3 dimensional. 
 I would like to try and get just a tiny bit more bottom end punch tho, so I've been reading/researching various tubes. 
 I found a good price for a pair of JJ ECC83S/12AX7 with gold pins that are on the way. These are supposedly derived of a Telefunken short plate design with tight tolorances and low microphonics. I guess we'll see how they sound when they get here


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well… 
 But not lives, I believe. 
 Where somebody can buy the Dared with less of U$200 now? 

 JohnBlue/Tommy Wu had answered my mail indicating the price of "257 USD shipment to your country" (I am in Brazil). 

 If I to spend more U$130 shipment with tubes, the total price would arrive in the U$390. 

 But if we now see the people here recommending the use of the Dared with a external DAC!…
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

If the US$257 price quote is the total price, including shipping to Brazil, that might not be a bad deal.

 I don't think it's necessary or even desirable to spend more than US$100 on two tubes for the Dared MP-5. I did, but that was an arguably irrational attempt to find a pair of tubes that might work better. They turned out well, but might have been mediocre. There's always risk when buying and trying tubes, and more expensive might not be better. It's even possible for someone to try the exact type of tubes I'm using and not like the results.

 I don't like the way the USB DAC sounds. If you don't have another source, using it is fine. But the MP-5 can sound much better with a better source, along with better tubes and maybe power conditioning. I don't think my MP-5 sounds like a "budget amp" and am very proud of its excellent sound irrespective of how much I paid for it or put into it.


----------



## laol

Thanks, Elephas!

 I now am between the Dared and the DA7.2x (by Eddie Wu):

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...%22DAC+7.2x%22

 I have almost equal prices for both. 
 But I did not consider in the informed price of U$257 the importation taxes… Probably, the difference of the constant price in the site (U$399) and of the price informed in email for the same site (U$257) is because of the difference of taxes. The first price already must include the taxes in USA. 

 That the Dared already only passed for some upgrades (for what read in reviews and a information of the site Dared in U.S.A.) and I does not know yet if the model that was offered me already it possesss these. 

 What say those that already had been able to compare both in function like DAC? 
 Thanks...


----------



## Elephas

There could also be shipping charges, distributor markup, retail markup or other extra fees.

 I don't have experience with the DA7.2x. 

 My MP-5's USB DAC doesn't sound as good as the Constantine USB Plus or Moodlab Dice when using USB. I would expect many dedicated USB DACs to also be superior to the MP-5's built-in DAC, though you would need an amp, of course.


----------



## Gatsu

Picked up a non-US MP5 a couple of months ago and quite impressed with it. I find it a lot less fatiguing than the Corda Aria.

 The hum got old fast and I ended up rolling the tubes to Mullard ECC82 at the recommendations made in this thread, that cleared up pretty much all the hum. I still get the hum occasionally, usually only after the amp has been on for a few hours at a time.
 However it hasn't affected the hiss that you can hear when there is no music playing, something I notice especially switching back and forth between the Dared and the Corda.

 Any suggestions on what I can do to reduce the hiss?


----------



## Hermitt

My US version doesn't have any hum until I rotate the volume knob to about 3:00 with the source paused (would be deafining loud with my MS-Pros otherwise) The hum is so faint that you have to listen very closely to even hear it, and I haven't detected any amount of hiss whatsoever. Currently using the stock chinese 12AX7B tubes as the JJ gold pin ECC83 tubes I bought took all the 'liveliness and airiness' away


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## Gatsu

The one thing that worries me about the Dared amps is what seems to be a wide variation in them. Overall though they seem pretty good.

 From what I've seen quite a few people have had either hum or hiss with the amp, you seem to have gotten good one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, the hum was almost completely removed by rolling the tubes, but the hiss is still a little annoying.
 From what I can gather the problem seems to be that the amps gain is way high, 9 o'clock on the volume is pushing it for me.
 I did a couple of quick and dirty tests yesterday with an old volume knob on a cable that I had. I set the amps volume knob to minimum and the external control to max. I then slowly wound the external knob back till the hiss disappeared. I then played some music and sat back to take a quick listen. Overall it seemed to fix the hiss problem for me and didn't appear to have any negative effect on the sound.
 I'm going to make up a proper 14db LPAD and see if that helps as much as I think it will.

 I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Hermitt

I haven't seen too many people pipe in that have the US versions, but I recall that most of the amps in this thread were the 'non' US versions which does have different tubes, and a few internal parts. I think the opamp and the DAC are different also. One thing I do like about using the USB input is that I can adjust the output gain on my WMP to around 70 and pick up a little more volume control with the dared. It sounds simply amazing at 12 o'clock straight up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but yea, most of my listening is around the 9 o'clock position also. MS-Pros sound absolutely beautiful with this amp


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## devwild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hermitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't seen too many people pipe in that have the US versions, but I recall that most of the amps in this thread were the 'non' US versions which does have different tubes, and a few internal parts._

 

My comments and jjcha's both pertain to the US version, as well as a couple others.


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## Gatsu

Well I finally got the guts to take a soldering iron to my amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Took a grinder to the front panel and installed a 6.5mm socket to get rid of that 3.5mm annoyance as well as replace the RCA sockets on the back, Every time I plugged it in I thought I was going to break one of the sockets off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also soldered into the case the resistors for the 14db LPAD, its a bit of a mess and I may redo it later, possibly with a little bit less attenuation.

 Results? Well the amp's hiss is completely gone. I get more leeway on the volume control (I can go up to 10-11 o'clock before it gets to my limit). Without the constant background hiss I find the sound a lot more relaxing. I still need to sit down and spend a few uninterrupted hours with it, but so far I'm quite happy with the change.


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## Manos2007

I am posting this mail on the forum - unfortunately - after i purchased a Dared MP-5 amp from an ebay seller in Taiwan which cost me 350USD including insured shipping...its on its way now, so there is nothing i can do any more than sit and wait untill it arrives.....
 The unit is a 220VAC (i live in Athens Greece) and probably does not have the US specs and the respective tubes as well. 
 I will be using it with a pair of SH HD-650 which i bought recently ..

 Following the thread back i noticed lots of forum members having switched their tubes with new ones and come up with great listening results.. (many of who have the taiwanese version)

 Are there any members who can give some advise on possible tube switching to match with the HD 650s? And what other modifications are available for this amp specificaly for headphone use? ( like changing/modifying the 150 Ohm resistors as some members in previous mails suggested etc).. I also plan to install a 6.5mm socket instead of the 3.5mm...
 I will not use it with a pc -at least for the forceable future - so the mediocre DAC is not an issue at this moment....
 The unit is not sold anymore by the representative in Greece since, as i read in previous threads, the mother company sold the rights of the units distribution for use with ipods etc...(or something like that)..
 Any available information will be much arppreciated. Thank you all
 Manos


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## Elephas

Gatsu's mods would be very welcome on my unit. I would also prefer a 1/4 headphone out and less gain for headphones.

 I recommend a pair of Telefunken ECC85.


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## Manos2007

Thanks for the post, i though this thread was dead........
 Today i received a mail from a taiwanese shop - after i send an inquiry - with an offer for 180USD plus 80 for express P&H which would save me about 130 USD!!!!!!!
 But as i mentioned before i read the thread after the purchase.....
 Do you have a good source for tubes (preferably in Europe to save some shipping costs) if not then every source is good enough! Are you with the non US version model and using these tubes with the 650's ? 
 I know too many questions in few lines!!!!!!!!!!!
 There is one more:
 GATSU wrote: 

  Quote:


 I also soldered into the case the resistors for the 14db LPAD, 
 

can you elaborate what he means by that?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it the resistors that need to be substituted or something else?
 Thank you again Elephas (Greek word
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 Regards Manos


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## Elephas

The offer for the USD180 Dared MP-5 should be the same non-US version unit as the one I have, except for voltage (mine is 110V). Shipping sounds about right; the MP-5 is fairly heavy.

 I use the Telefunken ECC85 pair with a Siemens EM87 cats-eye tube. I don't think the EM87 affects the sound.

 I don't use the HD650 with the MP-5, but I think it should do a decent job driving them.

 It's possible you might experience some background hiss. Replacement tubes such as the Telefunkens and a variable-volume source such as the Lavry DA10 should minimize the hiss and result in good sound quality.

 You can try European eBay sites or some of the established tube vendors for some tubes.


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## Manos2007

Well, to tell you the truth Elephas, if i am to spend 1000USD on top to have "good sound quality" then this little amp should be under average !! I have not read any really negative comments.....


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## Hofler

Hello all, 
 I bought an MP5 to mate with a pair of AKG 701's as I am a newly made father and feel pretty sure I won't get to turn up my speakers past .0005 for at least 4 or 5 years. I am pretty happy with what I have but then again I am a complete newbie to this level of audio sophistication or would that be sofistication. Anyway, I am only up to page 6 of this thread and thought I would tap in on the end of the thread. 
 By the way, anybody got any good scams to get an expensive pair of headphones and tube amp into the house and not get a rash from the wife? Right now they are both at work so working late is currently my best bet to get any ear time in with my toys.


 Anybody? Anybody? Beuler? Beuler??

 R


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## NSTSH

Many thanks to the posters in this thread for pushing me off the deep end ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got a good deal out of the local dealer here in Singapore with the non-US version and stock tubes.

 It is a beautiful piece of work and sounds great for this price point. Had a friend over who thought it cost several times the price i paid as i turned on Chesky's Vivaldi Four Seasons recording, Proprius' Jazz at the Pawnshop and some Terry Clark reference recordings.

 Have plugged it in via USB to my Powerbook and hooked up to my leftover JBL LA-660 floorstanding speakers. Don't believe that this little thing can drive them so well. Helps of course with the USB, that i can raise the volume on the eq pre-amp. It's cheating I know, but for now, beggers can't be choosers.

 Will be pairing it with a CD source (any recommendations mid-range CDPs?) and better cans. Am currently running it with Mylar X3s and Audio Technica EM9Ds. Will probably be aiming for DT880s or the AKG701.

 Wallet is screaming, so I'll hang on for now before going crazy with tube rolling.


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NSTSH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have plugged it in via USB to my Powerbook..._

 

No...no...please try a CD player or DAC, it should sound much better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A used CDP might go easier on the budget.

 If you have a notebook computer with optical output and an old CDP to use as transport, the Lavry DA10 or Benchmark DAC1 USB are good options.


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## Gatsu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Manos2007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GATSU wrote: 

I also soldered into the case the resistors for the 14db LPAD,

 can you elaborate what he means by that?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it the resistors that need to be substituted or something else?
 Thank you again Elephas (Greek word
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 Regards Manos
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

An LPAD is a resistor network that attenuates the signal, in theory across all frequencies.

 I used this : http://www.lalena.com/Audio/Calculator/LPad/

 To calculate the resistor values to use. The only other thing you need to know is the impedance of the phones you are using.

 Once I had the values, I made up a small board with a 6.35mm jack socket and soldered all the components to that.

 If I remember correctly there are already a couple of resistors on the existing headphone socket board already (150 ohm?) the LPAD replaces these.


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## NSTSH

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No...no...please try a CD player or DAC, it should sound much better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A used CDP might go easier on the budget.

 If you have a notebook computer with optical output and an old CDP to use as transport, the Lavry DA10 or Benchmark DAC1 USB are good options._

 

Thanks Elephas.

 Got a nice budget CD player, a CEC CD-3100 which paired very nicely with the Dared.

 Now I'll just need to work on good interconnects and speakers.


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## Elephas

That's great, it should sound better than the MP-5's built-in USB DAC.

 I don't think there's anything wrong with using the USB function, but it isn't a very good source and the MP-5 is capable of producing very good sound, both through its speaker outputs and the headphone out.

 Here's the humble MP-5 driving a pair of Stax SR-007 Omega II through an Illusion ESC-1001 converter box, Accuphase DP-500 as source. Tubes are 2x Telefunken ECC85 and a Siemens EM87.

 The MP-5 says, "The KGSS is down and out, bring on the 300B SET's!"


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## Seamaster

I got this same set-up but the brand name on the box is "HCT HMS-100". It is made in kroea, yes, korea, what's the hell?? I paid $199, no tax in a military PX store, was marked down from $249. They come with the amp, ipod dock, speakers, cables, remote, and everything as in Fatman / Deared MP-5 box, or more. Now I replaced the stock ECC85 tube with two pair of Mullard, one pair with white labels,the others are yellow. Em87 is still stock. The ipod dock option in this set-up sucks, which lost all the details and impact, sounded very muddy. I rather use just my ipod+ E-4c only. Compare to SR-71, if SR-71 is rated as 100%, HCT/Fatman/Deared would be 150% stock, 200% with Mullard tubes. Note: My set-up seems worked well with HD-650+cardas but not so with DT-880 and K-271s.


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## GSKairo

Does anyone know were to get this amp? Pref. in Europe or Asia?
 I have triede ebay for a few contries but have found nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( found one but 500 usd is a bit steep for my blood)

 It doesnt have to be this exact one, Vuum or similar is also fine.

 Can anyone help med out?


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## GSKairo

I seems to have gone out of production. Can anyone confirm this? 

 I would realy like one, but i cant seem to find em anywere


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## wattwatt

Hi everyone please forgive me as i'm a bit of novice. I've just purchased a Dared MP-5 from Japan ebay. It works fine when i connect it to the line in. When i connect my Mac to the usb port on front everything is good for about 1 min then the music cuts out and i get static. My speakers are b&w blueroom. Do i need to change speakers. Is there such a thing as an instruction manual for the Dared. Thanks Steven


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## kcxj

I'm going to be hooking up the Dared to some bookshelves and a DVD player tonight or tomorrow. Do I just connect everything and turn it on? I'm a noob and don't want to damage anything.


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## Fallen

That's what I do, just connect everything and then turn it on.






 To be safe, start with the dvd player off and the volume of the Dared at zero. Don't play a dvd until after a few minutes while the tubes heat up. Play the dvd, then start cranking the volume up on the Dared little by little.

 I always turn my volume knob down before turning it off as well.


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## kcxj

Thanks!


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## Master Luke

Im having trouble finding out exactly whether or not the Dared MP-5 is Hybrid class on the headphone output.

 I know the speaker output is hybrid, but is the Philips TDA7265 chip in the audio path of the headphone output?

 Thanks!


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## Audict123

Luke: yes, the speaker and headphone output use exactly the same amplification stages.


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## Audict123

The potentiometer of my Dared is very noisy on the right channel (only audible during rotation). Has anyone tried to fix or replace it for the same reason? 
 There's not much space in there. I'd like to fit something real good like the CP601 potentiometer on Potentiometer, Kohle, Leitplastik but something equal to the original without the noise would already be great. Thanks!


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## Lionel72

Hey ariel123,

 I have the exact same problem with that noise in the right channel when I turn the volume up or down with my Dared MP-5. I bought it almost 1 year ago. I wonder if it is just oxidation or something wrong with my right channel tube. I think if it were oxidation it should most likely be noisy on both channels, and I kind of noticed that the noise tends to disappear after the tubes have been warm and in use for a while. Let me know if you found out where the problem comes from. Else I'm delighted with the Dared PM-5, I have just bought a pair of Grado SR 125 for it and they sound pretty good on it, but of course not as good as my Klipsch RB-51 in my living room.


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## Rico67

i own a clone.
 No Brand indicated.
 it's look like a MP5 or Fattman.
 Do you know it ?
 I have purchased it with an ipod dock station and speakers.
 White gloves-Speakers cables included.
 It seems to be the same, without the USB integarted dac.
 Sound really great.
 Warm and details.


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## Audict123

lionel72: thanks for saving me from a useless potentiometer change. Indeed, the noises are a lot less when the unit is warm! I tried changing left and right tubes, but that didn't help: still, most noises on volume change are still in the right channel, but some in the left are added as well. So it may well not be the pot, but something in the preamp stage that does react to the temperature of the tubes. I use NOS Siemens Halske ECC85 tubes. Guess I should look for the original tubes and check if these have the problem too.


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## mbd2884

Oh man, this looks like such a cool entry level tube amp/dac combo.


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## Lionel72

Hi arie123,
 Although the noise seems less loud after some warming time, I still wonder if it could come from oxidation in the potentiometer after all. I tried to turn the volume while applying a certain amount of pressure on the nob and the cracking noise seems to be less present while doing this. I have the original chinese tubes.


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## Lionel72

I have finally switched my right and left channel tubes and the noise has indeed moved from the right channel to the left channel which indicates in my case that the problem does come from my tube. When the noise will become really a pain in the neck I'll upgrade to better tubes, so far it's still not too annoying.


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## umbalito

Would you recommend the MP5 over a Meier Cantate.2 for a K701/K702 with a laptop running FLAC as source?

 Thanks.


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## fuseboxx

Listening to this chain right now:

 PC >> iBasso D10 >> Dared MP-5 >> Beyer DT770-250

 Sounds great. Very detailed, spacious, smooth and warm with noticeable amounts of reverb.

 Some of my extreme metal music loses its edge and agressiveness though... especially with the Dared chained.


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## donunus

wow, you should have brought that dared sa meet natin


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## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, you should have brought that dared sa meet natin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh, it's not mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's actually dogears' and was bought from another HeadPhiles member sometime after the meet. Hehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, now that I've tried it out considerably and I'm back to my default setup, here are some brief impressions:

 It packs a great amount of power since I was able to drive by 250ohm DT770's with the knob only at 12 o'clock as opposed to the D10, which has to be turned to around 4 o'clock. I even played around with it more and put all the sliders of the foobar EQ down to -20dB, and still the Dared was able to provide ear-splitting volume with the knob at 4 o'clock.

 The sound is just great. Aside from what I assume are common traits of tube amps (warm, smooth & dark), the thing that appealed to me about the Dared is that it sounds very open and spacious. 

 I kept on doing an A-B comparison of the *pc>d10-dac>dared>dt770* vs *pc>d10-combo>dt770* using The Dave Matthews Band's "Lover Lay Down" and I was very impressed with the Dared's clear and accurate imaging. You could instantly hear the difference from the first few seconds when the cymbals come in and pan from right to left.

 I love how wide and deep I'm able to hear with this and my only possible issue is that with my setup, the sound might be too fat and thick for my taste - but I need some more time with it to listen to more music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately, my one-day audition is over. Haha. Maybe another time.


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## dogears

^And you were 'just' listening to the Dared's stock tubes


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## Bostonears

If anyone is still looking for one of these amps, "Sonic Integrity" badged versions of the Dared MP5 are currently listed on Audiogon. The units have two sets of RCA inputs, but no DAC. Ad says they have the 6N1 tubes, which would make them the "non-US" version, even though they're being sold from the US. Seller is asking $220 for new, fully boxed kits with iPod dock and speakers. (These seems to be equivalent to the Fatman iTube ValveDock, just without the hideous Fatman graphics on the front.)

 Ad listing is at AudiogoN ForSale: Dared MP5. The guy selling them on Audiogon apparently works for Sonic Integrity.


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## frank2908

i have a itube fatman( which i believe is a dared clone) and it sounded good with my sr125, the soundstage increased a lot and added more details. the sound is a lot more open and high sounds a lot better. but then for my akg k242 the sound doesnt change that much when unamped. there are a bit more detail and the mid is smoother , but it doesnt have the WOW effect with sr125. btw akg k701 has always been my target HP. i guess im going the right way ^^. hope it works better with k701 than my k242


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frank2908* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a itube fatman( which i believe is a dared clone) and it sounded good with my sr125, the soundstage increased a lot and added more details. the sound is a lot more open and high sounds a lot better. but then for my akg k242 the sound doesnt change that much when unamped. there are a bit more detail and the mid is smoother , but it doesnt have the WOW effect with sr125. btw akg k701 has always been my target HP. i guess im going the right way ^^. hope it works better with k701 than my k242_

 

I have HCT same as fatman, they are NOT clones. I belive they came from same monther company either in China or South Korea.

 I used mine with Audio Technica L3000 at Seattle meet, sound not too much off compare to AT A-3000 amp. Sounded great! For the price...... they are keeper.


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## frank2908

do u know the difference between fatman n dared? except from probably different tubes n the dac?


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frank2908* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do u know the difference between fatman n dared? except from probably different tubes n the dac?_

 

HCT-Fatman-Deared are the same every thing, and use same tubes, even the white gloves that came with amp are the same size!


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## frank2908

i plan to get k701 AND get a pair of mullard ecc82, but right now i can only afford 1, either upgrade tubes and use w k242 or change to k701 w stock tube, what do u guys think? im gonna get both anyway but for the waiting time, which option would sound better?


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## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HCT-Fatman-Deared are the same every thing, and use same tubes, even the white gloves that came with amp are the same size!_

 

Sort of. They are all built in the same factory, but there are versions that use different tubes, and there are versions with and without USB DAC. Then there are the ridiculous graphics on the Fatman units...


----------



## shawn_low

Reviving this thread as a local Aussie distributor is still bringing in the Fatman version of this. Anyone have a lead to cheap versions of the MP5? I want the DAC version.

 Found one on ebay but it's US$300 plus shipping.


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## AudioHi

My HCT tube amp still going strong for almost 4 years now..
 Not to mention how great the tube sound is.
 It is definitely a keeper.


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## terance

hey everyone!
   
  I just got my Dared MP-5 and am seriously loving it.
   
  My only problem is that one of the tubes has gone bad (12AX7), so there is a bad hiss/crackle in whatever channel I insert the bad tube into.
   
  I purchased it on Ebay so I a don't know if it is the American version of the other one.  (how can I tell?)
   
  I am very interested in new tubes, mostly because I cannot stand this hiss and crackle coming from the amp.
   
  Any help from you people is appreciated.
   
   
  Glad to be listening to tubes again =)


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## Bostonears

terance said:


> My only problem is that one of the tubes has gone bad (12AX7), so there is a bad hiss/crackle in whatever channel I insert the bad tube into.
> 
> I purchased it on Ebay so I a don't know if it is the American version of the other one.  (how can I tell?)


 
   
  If it uses 12AX7 tubes, it's the "American" version. The non-American version uses 6N1 (ECC85) tubes. But that doesn't really matter. You just need to get another set of tubes that are the same type as whatever came with the amp, in your case 12AX7.


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## terance

Hey again everyone,
   
  I have installed the new tubes, and they sound great, with one caveat.
   
  I have the volume knob at the maximum volume, and to me, it is very, very quiet. (I usually do not listen to music too loud).
   
  When purchasing the tubes, I specified that I wanted a matched pair, but did not specify "high gain" tubes.
   
  My question:
   
  Should I buy another pair of tubes and specify "high gain"?
   
   
  The system is very, very quiet.  Too the point where I must have the volume knob at the maximum if I want to hear music, regardless of the volume.
   
  My phono stage is a bellari vp130, and worked perfectly fine with another amplifier, voulmes were good.
   
   
  Thanks everybody,
   
  _ matt


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## illkemist

I'm so surprised to see that people are still talking about this little amp. I have had one for almost two years. It has served me well, but it may be on its way out soon. I have a Leben CS300 that will be taking over amp duties as soon as it is back from repair.
   
  The Dared really is a nice piece of equipment. I bought it from a Usher dealer when I got my S520s. Not a bad combo at all. Actually, I think it may still be possible to purchase them in Taipei.


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## terance

I am having a little, well big, problem with my Dared MP-5 =/
   
  My amp develops a bad channel imbalance if I turn it off.  I'll explain.
   
  In order for my L and R channels to have the same volume I have to switch the L and R tubes.  I have to do this daily, or else the amp will have a very obvious lean towards the right channel.
   
  The tubes are matched, so I know that this is not the problem, and I've checked all of my connections. 
   
  I just really do not understand what is going on.  I love the amp, but having to take the tubes out and switch them on a daily basis gets pretty old. . . .fast.
   
  Thanks for reading,
   
  - Matt


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## Bostonears

terance said:


> I am having a little, well big, problem with my Dared MP-5 =/


 
  It might be a problem with the preamp section of the Dared, but have you tested these tubes since this problem appeared?  If not, the most obvious thing to try is a different set of tubes.


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## Nec3

Wow, how old is this DAC/Amp?

 I just got these from another user on headfi, I'm currently pairing these with my AKG Q701's. This is the best pairing I've had, considering I don't have many "insensitive" headphones to begin with. When I mean insensitive, I mean the Q's aren't very efficient, and the pros about this is I don't hear the electrical whine/hum. I'm not sure if ordering a monoprice power cord will reduce this (I'm using a power cord that came with my power supply unit). Or maybe replacing the tubes. The previous user replaced the tubes with NOS Sovtek 6N1P-EB's.

 My previous DAC/amp combo I had was the ODAC/O2.
 The soundstage is about the same with the Dared to the ODAC/O2.
 Bass is more solid and has more weight.
 Sibilance in my music has been reduced to natural distortion, which is nice.
 Mids are more lush, smooth, clear.

 (Note the above differences aren't anymore than just minor improvements)

 Also trying to figure out a way to reduce the sensitivity for the magic eye tube... I'm not driving any speakers and I only have low impedance desktop speakers. I'd like a dancing tube 

 My third complaint is this thing's aesthetics is a double edged sword; it's a fingerprint magnet.

 Overall I'm quite happy with my purchase.


----------

