# All about the new Apple Lightning cables/plugs...UPDATE: the plot thickens!



## scootermafia

Everybody knows and loves it, right?  Head-fi is certainly in a bit of a flap about the new Lightning plug, as is the rest of the world, since it's a big departure.  I've got a few Lightning cables on hand so the point of this thread is to be a permanent source of information on this plug since curiosity abounds.
   
*Pix (sorry for the crap quality):*
   
  UPDATE: The person has authentication chips in it.  Keep in mind this is super small, and magnified with a 1:1 macro lens...
   
   

   
   

   



   

   
   
  2 of the standard cables from Apple arrived today.  First thing I noticed is that the Lightning plugs are SMALL.  Pinky fingernail size.  The contact points on the plug are so tiny, it is hard to probe them with a multimeter.  Also, they are tough and look really good.  This is not a cable that is going to break easily.  It is a fraction of the width of a dock plug and isn't going to snap off or have weird problems with locking, and so on.  
   
  Removing the plastic shell around the plug reveals a two piece metal crimp surrounding the solder area of the plug, as well as some injected silicone rubber cushioning.  This plug is built like a tank, it is armored.  Modders are going to want to give up on the idea of building their own charge cables/CLAS cables from scratch for this, until a DIY version of this plug surfaces.  I don't expect a DIY version of this plug will go for that much, despite how pretty they are, since at wholesale you can get a healthy discount on these cables.  The amount of force required to remove the crimp is insane, it is really on there.  I got it off without completely destroying the plug, and was greeted with a generous coating of epoxy.  Scraping all that off reveals a tiny PCB with the 4 wires of the USB cable connected to it.  The PCB extends into the end of the cable, where I'm guessing the traces split off and cross to allow the two-sideness of the connector.  
   
  For modders, we have a tiny ~32awg pair of green and white wires which are for data.  I'll post the exact specs when I get home.  There is a 26awg red power wire for V+.  V- duties are done by the cable's shield, which has several easily accessible drain wires for soldering to the plug of your choice.  It is trivial to chop the end on this, strip it with a 14awg stripper to get the shield and jacket off, then, strip & solder these wires to a USB plug or micro USB plug if you wanted to make your own custom version of the long and annoying stock Lightning cable.  
   
  I will post the exact pinouts soon.  For now, let's look at it this way: if you face the plug straight at you, the contacts facing up (and it should be the same on either side) are 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.  Pin 1 is V- or shield, and it is connected to the shell of the plug on each side, so the power ground also serves to ground the shells of the cable ends together.  Pretty standard USB layout.  Pins 6 and 7 are the data pins (forget the exact configuration, will fix this in my next edit).  Here's where we get to the strangest thing about this.  Perhaps I just had a broken cable, but when the cable was fully intact, and afterwards, I tried to figure out where V+ connects to.  I had the V+ wire stripped and hooked up to the multimeter, and I probed the crap out of the Lightning plug.  No resistance, no continuity, to any of the pins on the Lightning plug.  I will keep at it but for now this is a really strange mystery.  The V+ wire is soldered to the little board inside the Lightning plug.  Where it goes from there inside the PCB that extends into the metal contact end of the Lightning plug is anyone's guess.  There does not appear to be any resistors or circuitry in this cable.  It is just a regular USB cord as far as I can tell, so far.  Except for this V+ problem.  I have a 2nd lightning cord I can test here in a little while.


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## scootermafia

Reserved


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## Elantric

Hello - new member here, but Scootermafia earns extra points for posting the first pics Anywhere i can find of whats going on in the new Lightning cable.
   
My hunch - it appears to be an Apple authentication IC inside the small Lightning housing. 
   
*EDIT:*
*Also I'm now thinking the info here is correct
http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/

 Which basically states that Apple is using a special active diff line
 driver circuit, powered by the attached device (typically a PC or Mac
 USB 2.0 port)*
   
   
  Of course most have hears a rumor that future "Lighting to USB Host" adapter is possible, but sketchy details if IO6 on Iphone supports USB Host. Sheer speculation, but Apple may easily continue the same path as the Camera Connection Kit paradigm of crippling USB host on iphone, while enabling it on the Ipad 
   
  We should know in a couple months  - since a new  IPad MINI with Lightning port is reportedly due in December 2012
   
http://www.bolopad.com/html/show-22-1510-1.html&usg=ALkJrhgn189t75H_rIuajEc8oy_Hlz5X0g
   
   
  http://www.bolopad.com/uploadfile/2012/0917/tmp_5056874c6a8cf.jpg


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## scootermafia

Perhaps the power + wire is going through a chip. I will test this soon.


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## scootermafia

Buzzing away the epoxy coating with a steel brush Dremel attachment reveals what's inside.  Authentication chips galore.  They are gating the V+ wire - this is why it's not continuous between the voltage pin of the USB connector and the Lightning connector.  There be chips in between.


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## grokit

Thanks for the effort Peter, very nice job!


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## scootermafia

I don't think it would be the end of the world to build an USB LOD for this.  You would just need the mini-board piece + lightning end that goes along with it.  There are four pads, one for each wire.  If you could just buy the end piece without those nasty crimps on it, you could surely do it.  It is just VERY hard to get it all apart in one piece.  The real question is this - are the lots of 10,000 lightning cables on Alibaba.com going to actually work when whoever bought them gets them?  If the authentication chip really is proprietary, does every Tom, Dick and Harry over in China have access to them?


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## alamakazam

it must have some mechanism... else such MALE connector will short easily... burning lots of adapters


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## grokit

I just saw Tavis Smiley talking with some tech heads about the iPhone 5, the connector is definitely regarded as more robust that it predecessor. They demonstrated that it made better contact, is not prone to locking (or not) issues, is more durable, really a better connector all the way around. The issue that they had was Apple forcing these $30-40 plastic bits adapters on people if they want to connect their i-Thing to their car or clock radio etc.


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## scootermafia

Some more news has surfaced.  It is thought to be a Texas Instruments accessory authentication chip, but nobody has shown its existence until that pic that I posted following my teardown.  I've submitted the story to a few tech sites so we'll see if they put it up there.  They say the projected cost on this connector is $3.50.  So, the cables selling for $1 or less on Alibaba are surely non-functional.  I would be amazed if we see any working 3rd party accessories from the grey market type vendors anytime soon.  The usual suspects will have done their due diligence and have working accessories (deep pocketed US companies).


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## Elantric

Quote: 





> It is thought to be a Texas Instruments accessory authentication chip, but nobody has shown its existence until that pic that I posted following my teardown.


 
   
  Apple Authentication chips have been around for a while, and yes they are quite small. They have been a requirement for any product that directly attaches to an Apple IOS device.
   
  The Apple mFI developer program is the source for details
   
  https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/
   
   
  But in my mind, if a DAC is what you are after, might explore the new "USB Audio" standard that several new DAC products support. Apparently IPhone 4/ 4S/ 5 (and new Android devices like the S3) all support "USB Audio" which is now being used to describe the direct streaming of Audio via USB
   
   
  There are a new category of DAC boxes with a USB Type A Host port - and these support "USB Audio":
   
  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=9c0aa03ef613a9aedb422a5640654599&showtopic=93402&view=findpost&p=801027
  http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/480480_4317734867479_2047049317_n.jpg
   
   
   
  like these 
   
  RATOC  RAL-1648iP1
   
   
   
  and the new JVC car Head units
http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/01/53/15346.PDF

http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/01/49/77.PDF
   
  More here:
  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=93402&st=25


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## scootermafia

Looks like I'm famous now.


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## .Sup

So if the identification chip is in the cable could that mean all we need is a cable without the chip and we could have digital out with Apple uncertified devices?


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## scootermafia

I'm pretty sure the point here is that without the chip, the iPhone won't talk to whatever you're plugging in.


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## .Sup

scootermafia said:


> I'm pretty sure the point here is that without the chip, the iPhone won't talk to whatever you're plugging in.



I see, that makes sense. Thanks


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## WrathOfGod

We disassembled the Apple Lightning Cable and measured all the dimensions.
Check it out if you're interested.


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## shotgunshane

Looking forward to using my UHA-6s with the 5.  Thanks for the thread and information.


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## paradoxper

Thanks, Peter. This was very insightful.


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## DigitalFreak

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Looking forward to using my UHA-6s with the 5.  Thanks for the thread and information.


 

 Where did you get the information that you could hook it up to the Leckerton DAC? Considering it's chipped I'm guessing you can't do DAC bypass.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





digitalfreak said:


> Where did you get the information that you could hook it up to the Leckerton DAC? Considering it's chipped I'm guessing you can't do DAC bypass.


 
  Some info


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## shotgunshane

Quote: 





digitalfreak said:


> Where did you get the information that you could hook it up to the Leckerton DAC? Considering it's chipped I'm guessing you can't do DAC bypass.


 
   
  The day after the 5 announcement, I chatted with an Apple csr and they conversed with a tech who said it will host usb audio without authentication. I'm hoping authentication is for ipod out controls only. Of course they could have no idea what they are talking about and my dreams will subsequently be crushed but considering the 30 pin adapter also supports usb audio (per all the media reports), then why block it in one cable and not another?  A man can dream; don't crush a man's dreams.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> The day after the 5 announcement, I chatted with an Apple csr and they conversed with a tech who said it will host usb audio without authentication. I'm hoping authentication is for ipod out controls only. Of course they could have no idea what they are talking about and my dreams will subsequently be crushed but considering the 30 pin adapter also supports usb audio (per all the media reports), then why block it in one cable and not another?  A man can dream; don't crush a man's dreams.


 
   
  if i had a usb capable dac...i would test that lol but i dont.
   
  The phone is amazing though. so ridiculously fast...and the new headphones, while head and shoulders above the old iBuds, are still nothing to write home about


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## grokit

Just posting this because Peter hasn't (or isn't allowed to):
   

   
  Looks nice, the guy doesn't mess around!
   
  http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/21/authentication_chips_discovered_in_teardown_of_apples_new_lightning_connector


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## DigitalFreak

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> The day after the 5 announcement, I chatted with an Apple csr and they conversed with a tech who said it will host usb audio without authentication. I'm hoping authentication is for ipod out controls only. Of course they could have no idea what they are talking about and my dreams will subsequently be crushed but considering the 30 pin adapter also supports usb audio (per all the media reports), then why block it in one cable and not another?  A man can dream; don't crush a man's dreams.


 

 Trust me I also have my fingers crossed.


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## antberg

Subscribed just for curiosity about how this will develope


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## scootermafia

I've done some more "research" and found some more things out.  This story is now all over Appleinsider, top article of Gizmodo, and soon to be more sites that have gotten in touch with me.
   
  The board has 1 large chip, 1 medium chip, 1 small chip, 2 big resistors, and 2 little resistors.  
   
   

   
  What's more interesting than this is how the pins are laid out:
   
   
   

   
  Some of the pins, the ones I think are responsible for power (top 1 and bottom 8 are V-, while top 4 and bottom 5 may be V+) are mirror-flippable so that they always connect to the same place on the iPhone's Lightning jack no matter how you flip it.  That is commonsense as you wouldn't want to dynamically assign which pins are power, that seems impossible to me.  But top 2 and bottom 2 are the same connection, they are connected to one another and to USB Data+.  So when you flip the plug, the data+ connection ends up in a different place.  Thus, you absolutely have to have dynamic assignment of pins performed by most likely the iPhone itself.  Something tips the iPhone off as to which side is which (who knows, it could be a magnet!).


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## shigzeo

Rainer Brockerhoff responds to you here with somewhat differing information, but it's safe to say, that for now, there is a LOT of speculation about what is inside. He argues:
   
   
   


> I really see no justification for the “authentication chip” hypothesis, and even their diagram doesn’t show any single “power pin of the Lightning plug”. It’s clear that, once the cable’s type has been negotiated with the device, and the device has checked if there’s a charger, a peripheral or a computer on the other end, the power input from the USB side is switched to however many pins are required to carry the available current.


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## scootermafia

Right, I think we've proven that it's a chip that controls the flow of power.  Pin assignment is being handled by the iPhone itself, because I've shown that the USB data pins are contiguous from top to bottom meaning that when you flip the connector the pin is going into a different place on the iPhone's Lightning jack.  I think what it does is just serve as an intermediary, it detects power and does some sort of security routine to make sure that the power is all good and perhaps what type of device is supplying the power.  I don't think that it's possible for it to be a security chip per se, at this point, since it's only communicating with a USB 5V power line - it's hard to say whether any 2 way communication is really taking place there.  I think the chip just decides whether the iPhone charges or not.


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## grokit

Wouldn't it use authentication to decide whether to transmit power?


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## adamschuetze

Wow thanks scootermafia!  I know a lot of other tech sites have been wondering what the heck is inside these cables.


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## Elantric

UPDATE -  I'm now thinking the info here is correct
http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/

 Which basically states that Apple is using a special active diff line
 driver circuit, powered by the attached USB Type A Host device (typically a PC or Mac
 USB 2.0 port)
   
  The devices which need an Authentification IC chip are those third party hardware devices which provide a direct Lighting connection and must go through the Apple mFI developer approval process.
   
  But it would appear for most users needs, Apple is making a suitable adapter.
   
  More info here:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/09/iphone-5-audio-accessories-compatible-some-require-adapters-ik-line-6-official-word/#more-25568


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## WrathOfGod

I uploaded a sharper photo of how to connect the USB wires to the lightning cable chip. Quite possibly one of the first custom Lightning cables in the world? Hah.


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## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





wrathofgod said:


> Quite possibly one of the first custom Lightning cables in the world? Hah.


 
  Already beat you to it.


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## DigitalFreak

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Already beat you to it.


 

 Gee that's real nice but would it be possible to give both those connectors a right angle so the cable itself isn't jutting out waiting to hook onto something? You know, maybe something more along the lines of the Fiio L9.


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## Toxic Cables

Something similar to my older one, pictured here, would indeed be possible.
   
   

   
Picture taken by a customer.


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## ExpatinJapan

That is the kind of thing I would be after.
   
  Kind of like the cable for my Fostex hp_p1.
   
  <a href="http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/image/view/album/120193/id/631050/sort/display_order"><img src="http://www.head-fi.org/image/id/2909723/width/400/flags/LL"></a>


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## shotgunshane

Well, whether or not it is an authentication chip in the cable, it certainly will not work with just any dac. I bought a usb to micro adapter to try with a non Apple authenticated dac and no dice. So I'm guessing the lightning to 30 pin adapter will have usb audio locked too.


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## scootermafia

Boy, that was a hail mary play right there.  
   
  What I've learned recently is that the Chinese are having great difficulty producing these plugs illicitly (Apple hasn't authorized anyone to make them yet, and is holding a powwow in November to get factories on board with their MFi program) and some have given up for now.  Leading some amazon and eBay third-partiers to refund their customers orders.  Some suppliers are putting up pictures of the inside of Thunderbolt cables (LOL) or have a pile of Apple cables photographed to make it look like they have stock, but realistically it'll be December/January before we start seeing third party Lightning accessories - unless one factory makes a huge breakthrough and is also willing to get harassed by Apple, since this is not a "dumb" dock connector anymore and you need Apple's licensing to produce it.  
   
  The 30 pin adapter is going to have pins 3,4, and 11 tied to 15 being R, L, G just like any other LOD that you can buy right now.  So you'll be able to make your own "LOD" by routing a cable into this adapter and soldering it to the right places.


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## .Sup

all this complication just so they can get richer on cables. Thanks for info Scooter


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## gopanthersgo1

scootermafia said:


> Looks like I'm famous now.




I bet that got your brand out there!


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## AnakChan

Not too sure if this is the right thread to post but today we attempted a to hook up an iPhone 5 to a standard USB DAC/Amp (TTVJ's new Apex Glacier actually). The connector used was the Apple Lighting MicroUSB adapter (the EU version), and VentureCraft's MIcroUSB<->MicroUSB cable. The VentureCraft cable works fine for the Samsung Galaxy S3 Android so presumably a straight pass-through cable.
   
  However in attempting the iPhone 5 setup with the Lighting MicroUSB adapter, it didn't work. The iPhone 5 didn't recognise the Apex Glacier at all (nothing appeared in the Settings->General->About) but at the same time playing music didn't come out from the iPhone speakers so I guess it was attempting to redirect audio out somewhere else.

 Anyway here's a pic of the cable setup we were trying :-


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## .Sup

thanks for info Anak


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## Toxic Cables

Low profile Lightning cable, for the AlgoRhythm Solo-DB,
  Gold plated USB and Lightning connector.


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Low profile Lightning cable, for the AlgoRhythm Solo-DB,
> Gold plated USB and Lightning connector.


 
   
  Why does yours work and my attempted concoction didn't ?? Admittedly was trying with a standard USB DAC/Amp (Glacier) instead of something like the CLAS -db (iDevice & USB DAC). Will be checking your cable prices soon after .


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## scootermafia

Standard USB DACs don't have the authentication protocols inside them to recognize an Apple phone like that.  You need a DAC made under the MFi program like the Algorhythm to do this.  You could never plug an iPhone 4 into a regular USB DAC and the iPhone 5 is no exception.


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## AnakChan

Quote:
   


scootermafia said:


> Standard USB DACs don't have the authentication protocols inside them to recognize an Apple phone like that.  You need a DAC made under the MFi program like the Algorhythm to do this.  You could never plug an iPhone 4 into a regular USB DAC and the iPhone 5 is no exception.


 
   
  Cheers...but I thought the authentication chips were in the Lightning connectors themselves (from your Lightning dissection pix)? Or I've mixed up security chips with authentication chips?
   
  Edit: P.S. knew about the pre-Lightning. Thx for the clarification about the Lightning-supported iDevices


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## scootermafia

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Cheers...but I thought the authentication chips were in the Lightning connectors themselves (from your Lightning dissection pix)? Or I've mixed up security chips with authentication chips?
> 
> Edit: P.S. knew about the pre-Lightning. Thx for the clarification about the Lightning-supported iDevices


 
   
  The authentication chips aren't the issue.  iPhones of any vintage don't know what to do when plugged into a USB DAC, which is meant to host a laptop, not a phone.  Android phones may have this capability, but iPhones never have and never will except with select devices like the CLAS or the Fostex.


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## Twinster

scootermafia said:


> The authentication chips aren't the issue.  iPhones of any vintage don't know what to do when plugged into a USB DAC, which is meant to host a laptop, not a phone.  Android phones may have this capability, but iPhones never have and never will except with select devices like the CLAS or the Fostex.




Just to be clear with an Android phone like the Samsung S3 you need to use a special cable call OTG (on-the-go) to enable the host mode. Basically the. Pin 5 is grounded or something like that.


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## Toxic Cables

Looks like the Lightning cables from China, have started shipping.


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## DigitalFreak

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Looks like the Lightning cables from China, have started shipping.


 

 But will they work is the big question. The main question for me is will Fiio come out with a DAC/amp bypass solution?


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## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





digitalfreak said:


> But will they work is the big question. The main question for me is will Fiio come out with a DAC/amp bypass solution?


 
  I seriously doubt the factories will be sending out something that does not work. Like any company, they have a reputation to maintain.


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## DigitalFreak

True, but I don't believe anything until i see it for myself. I'm sure most of these products will be perfectly fine but like anything else there's always a few fly by night grab the money and run types.


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## IPodPJ

anakchan said:


> Cheers...but I thought the authentication chips were in the Lightning connectors themselves (from your Lightning dissection pix)? Or I've mixed up security chips with authentication chips?
> 
> Edit: P.S. knew about the pre-Lightning. Thx for the clarification about the Lightning-supported iDevices




The DAC in the lightning to 30 pin adapter cable is quite decent. It's no Audio-gd Reference 7.1 but for a portable solution/car stereo application it's definitely good. It sounds much better when just used on the battery power from the iPhone than when docked with an external power source, and a good quality LOD is recommended. For $39 it's a solid buy. Now if only the iPhone itself worked as well; it's plagued with iOS and battery issues.


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## audionewbi

I wonder if the 30 pin can be modded for its DAC section alone


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## shotgunshane

audionewbi said:


> I wonder if the 30 pin can be modded for its DAC section alone




Or just strip the plastic housing off the lightning dock connector, add a 30 pin LOD and custom epoxy housing for the whole thing to make it as small as possible. I'd sign up for one of those.


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## fuzzyash

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I wonder if the 30 pin can be modded for its DAC section alone


 
   
  a big problem ive seen is the super long time to strip off all the glue covering the electronics
  it seems like it takes a couple hours for one adapter...
   
  Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> Or just strip the plastic housing off the lightning dock connector, add a 30 pin LOD and custom epoxy housing for the whole thing to make it as small as possible. I'd sign up for one of those.


 
  the problem is the lightning to 30 pin adapter is sticking out quite a lot, and adding a 30 pin LOD would stick out even more
  even though the build quality seems high, the size of the lightning plug snapping off seems likely
   
  if the chinese knockoffs can reverse engineer the adapter and allow modding of the dac section, ill be estatic!


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## KT66

Lightning to Micro USB Adapter - can I use one of these to plug my IP5 into a Fiio E7?


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## scootermafia

I think for anything where an iPhone 4/4S was compatible, an analogous cable could be used to connect an iPhone 5.  You just can't do stuff you couldn't do before, like plug an iPhone directly into a USB DAC.  Stuff like the CLAS works the same as always.


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## Toxic Cables

The Chinese Lightning cable, works with everything it should work with, although very noisy due to the lack of shielding, found in the Apple cable.
   
  As with all other Lightning cables/adapters i took apart, it still works.


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## scootermafia

I took apart another set of Chinese cables with a different design.  These are the most salvageable ones for hobbyists.  The shielding is nonexistent, so it isn't that hard to get the handle apart, with a little heat.
  Removing the chips shows a very old (ca. 2001) Infineon controller that is still being pirated out there (or it could be new old stock) that's worth a few cents, and a unidentified 3 pin component of some sort, a few resistors, and that's it.  They have simplified the Apple design to the point where it could easily be built for under 50 cents (whereas the Apple cables were appraised at a considerably higher parts cost.


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## HugoFreire

Is there any aftermarket Lightning -> Micro-USB adapter out there yet?
  I'd love to go iPod -> Pico USB DAC/Amp!


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## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





hugofreire said:


> Is there any aftermarket Lightning -> Micro-USB adapter out there yet?
> I'd love to go iPod -> Pico USB DAC/Amp!


 
  I do make both straight and right angled versions


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## HugoFreire

Cool, how much would that sell for?
  Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> I do make both straight and right angled versions


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## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





hugofreire said:


> Cool, how much would that sell for?


 
  It's better to email me, but prices start at £65.


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## HugoFreire

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> It's better to email me, but prices start at £65.


 
  Nevermind, just figured out that non-MFi devices won't work through lightning...


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## IPodPJ

Finally, an inexpensive black one that looks almost stock, and is 4 feet long.
   
  http://www.boxwave.com/usb-lightning-cable-for-apple-devices/bwpd/ccw/?gclid=CISHjbKL_rQCFWaCQgodTTYA0g
   
  For $12.50, seems like a great deal (or a two-pack for $18.95).  I've never purchased from them though, so I cannot personally vouch for the quality.
   
  I'm a little tired of Apple releasing black products and never having black cables or black docks to go with them.
   
  And I won't even get started on what a pile of sh** the iPhone 5 is in at least 50 different ways.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> And I won't even get started on what a pile of sh** the iPhone 5 is in at least 50 different ways.


 
   
  I would never claim that the iPhone 5 is perfect, but then nothing is perfect. The iPhone 5 is still in many(mine included) peoples opinions, the best smartphone on the planet. The rest just have even more problems


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## daigo

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Finally, an inexpensive black one that looks almost stock, and is 4 feet long.
> 
> http://www.boxwave.com/usb-lightning-cable-for-apple-devices/bwpd/ccw/?gclid=CISHjbKL_rQCFWaCQgodTTYA0g
> 
> ...


 
   
  A good bit cheaper than the official Apple one.  Did you end up ordering one?  I keep seeing bad reviews on many of the aftermarket lightning cables that come up so I haven't ordered one yet. 
   
  I also have a black iPhone 5 and wish there were more black accessories for it.


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## grokit

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> I would never claim that the iPhone 5 is perfect, but then nothing is perfect. The iPhone 5 is still in many(mine included) peoples opinions, the best smartphone on the planet. The rest just have even more problems


 
   
  My preference would be for an iPhone 4S with an iPhone 5 screen size 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Have you guys heard about the rumored iPhone Pro? A 4.5 or 4.7" screen edge2edge, with a 3D camera.
   
  http://9to5mac.com/2012/04/02/iphone-pro-concept-features-4-5-inch-edge-to-edge-screen-and-dslr-lens-mount/
  http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/25/report-claims-ipad-5-with-ipad-mini-like-design-set-for-october-release-offers-new-details-on-upcoming-iphones/
   
  Personally, I haven't committed to the iPhone platform yet, although I finally succumbed to iOS in the form of an iPad for practical reasons. I have an iPhone but am not convinced I need a smartphone, with the internet always in my pocket. I like my Nokia quite a bit, great music player and camera and if I really need to it has wifi. The upcoming phone that does pique my interest in the one from Firefox that's supposedly being beta'd as we speak.
   
  A bit off topic I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess I won't need a lightning cable anytime soon!


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## AML1

Hi all. 
  Hope everyone is well.
  Brief background: Due to my job and research, I am fully-invested in Mac software on my iMac, iPad, and iPhone (4s).  I will likely upgrade to the iPhone 5 or 6 (I read the 6 will be available in multiple sizes - kinda cool).  The new lightning port has me worried.  My iPad mini uses it, and my next  iPhone will likely use it as well, unless Apple decides to pull another switcharoo on us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  For a portable setup using either iPad mini or iPhone 5+, will I have to use an external dac in the chain, or should I expect to see adapters that carry analog out directly to an amp?
   
  If iPhone 5+ users will be forced to involve a dac in the chain, or worse, rely on a certified amp/dac combo, affordable  portability will be severely limited.  I have been considering this scenario, rather than simply enjoying a fun amp with some decent cans and an iphone, I would likely need a more expensive certified amp/dac combo that would be best paired with a balanced connection, and then i would need to upgrade to balanced cables, and then my face will do this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as I count the $'s in my head.
   
  Thanks in advance for the counsel!


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## gavinfabl

I was at the Sound & Vision show at Bristol and came across a lightning cable that allows USB out to a DAC even working with the iPhone 5. I will post more info soon.


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## shotgunshane

Quote: 





gavinfabl said:


> I was at the Sound & Vision show at Bristol and came across a lightning cable that allows USB out to a DAC even working with the iPhone 5. I will post more info soon.


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## flatmap

Quote: 





gavinfabl said:


> I was at the Sound & Vision show at Bristol and came across a lightning cable that allows USB out to a DAC even working with the iPhone 5. I will post more info soon.


 
  Waiting to hear more!


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## groovyd

I won't upgrade my ipod touch 4th gen to anything lightening until there is at the very least a compact one piece LOD available, but I am really holding out for a lightening to usb host adapter to drive my portable dac/amp directly.


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## ChrisSC

Quote: 





gavinfabl said:


> I was at the Sound & Vision show at Bristol and came across a lightning cable that allows USB out to a DAC even working with the iPhone 5. I will post more info soon.


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## gavinfabl

Sorry guys for the delay. I was jail breaking my iPhone and iPad Mini. ADL (Alpha Designs Ltd) have a mfi certified lightning cable that works straight from the iPhone 5 etc to a DAC. I took a photo of the brochure page. If you need more info let me know.


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## shotgunshane

Quote: 





gavinfabl said:


> Sorry guys for the delay. I was jail breaking my iPhone and iPad Mini. ADL (Alpha Designs Ltd) have a mfi certified lightning cable that works straight from the iPhone 5 etc to a DAC. I took a photo of the brochure page. If you need more info let me know.


 
   
  Are you sure it will allow digital out to any dac?  Looking at their catalog (http://www.adl-av.com/pdf/adl_catalog.pdf), this just appears to be an Apple approved regular lightning cable; meaning I still wouldn't be able to send digital out to my Leckerton UHA-6 b/c that dac is not a mfi device.


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## gavinfabl

I asked the company and they said it would. Maybe worth double checking. I will get one myself soon so will update thread.


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## Currawong

That is indeed just the ADL version of the standard Lightning cable. I have the 30-pin version. If you have one of the Apple approved DACs with a USB-A socket then all the recent iDevices can be used as digital transports.


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## thirotsugu

Hey guys!
Might be kinda off topic but i just chopped my stock cable like attached and it works fine.

Due to the authentication chip,i assume it will be difficult to make a lod cable,and would be easier to just get the 30pin converter.


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## Draconus

Does anyone have a picture of how the four wires from the cable connection attach to the Lightning Connector?  I have a connector where the wires pulled loose and would like to try re-soldering them but need to know what order to connect the wires to the connections is.


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## Draconus

Oops, My Bad . . . I found it already . . .


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## Toxic Cables

thirotsugu said:


> Hey guys!
> Might be kinda off topic but i just chopped my stock cable like attached and it works fine.
> 
> Due to the authentication chip,i assume it will be difficult to make a lod cable,and would be easier to just get the 30pin converter.


 
  
 Unfortunately there is no way to currently make a Lightning LOD without modifying a lightning plug, and in this case, you end up with the same sized connector as the 30pin LOD.
  
 Here is one i made for personal use, although i don't make them for sale.


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## scootermafia

I've seen up on Taobao some DIY Lightning plugs that claim to be an audio line out specific plug.  They're on their way, we'll see if they really are what they say they are.  I'd be amazed if they were, but they insist.


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## scootermafia

The unfortunate thing about any line out with the iPhone5 is that it's not going to be a superstar DAC/output stage that's producing the signal.  The best way to do it is with an external DAC like the CLAS anyway.


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## Hapster

Damn, I read the thing about right angled lightning connectors, got really excited until I noticed toxic was asking $90 for it lol...

Anywhere else I can find this? Just bought the Cayin c6, probably one of the cheapest iDevice compatible dacs. So I'd like to have a connector similar to the L9, but for lightning, obviously.

Basically this:


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## fls50

Thanks.  This very useful for a product I am involved in.  As for the power (V+) I would see if it is connected to the one or more of the devices on the PCB.  The lightning connector is essentially two USB interfaces.  the devices on board could be a power switch to and a USB switch to prevent confusion inside the apple device that is driving them, as well as telling the apple device which USB port to drive.  there are extra pins on each 'side' of the Lightning connector that Apple uses as an ID of sort.  I am thinking of purchasing a cable to dis-assemble and reverser engineer myself (my background is electronics hardware design/engineering).  I will let you know what I find.


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## jmichaelpinc

New here, so I hope you'll pardon if I break any posting protocols.
I don't know if this helps or not but on a whim I connected my iPhone 5 to an Apple Lightning to USB Camera adapter, giving it a USB female port. I plugged one of the inexpensive USB 7.1 Sound Card dongles into that and was pleased to see it actually worked, giving a boost to both volume and audio quality (at least as heard through my Sennheiser PX200). Better than the amplification I got through my Fiio Rocky E02i or my Fiio E11. Sucked battery very quickly (about 10% in a half an hour), but appears to be a Lightning Cable DAC solution for under $25, depending on where you shop. Here's some eBay links to the same hardware I used:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Apple-Lightning-to-USB-Camera-Adapter-MD821ZM-A-For-iPad-And-Mini-New-/111458769386?pt=US_Memory_Card_Readers_USB_Host_Adapters&hash=item19f375d9ea
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-External-7-1-Channel-3D-Virtual-Audio-Sound-Card-Adapter-PC-Buy-2-Get-1-Free-/400460458738?pt=US_Sound_Card_External&hash=item5d3d4daaf2


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## Currawong

@jmichaelpinc Yup, we call that adaptor the "Camera Connection Kit" or "CCK" for short. Depending on the iDevice, it will at least work with USB DACs that use use some conventional USB audio chipsets (eg: PCM2706/2707) and don't try and draw too much power.


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## yhs9688

so are there still no lightning to microusb available??? man.. lightning has been out for so long and no company has tapped into this market?


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## yhs9688

*miniusb


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## Sound Eq

hapster said:


> Damn, I read the thing about right angled lightning connectors, got really excited until I noticed toxic was asking $90 for it lol...
> 
> Anywhere else I can find this? Just bought the Cayin c6, probably one of the cheapest iDevice compatible dacs. So I'd like to have a connector similar to the L9, but for lightning, obviously.
> 
> Basically this:


 

 I also need something like this short, which is not expensive any advise I know vmoda sells one but are there other options within 20-30 usd price range


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## web300m

Monoprice sells one in the sixteen dollar range, not right angle though. Works fine, no messages about incompatibility.


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## groovyd

still waiting for wireless, airplay amp or something... ideally something that clips onto the headphone headband with a very short 3mm cable to the phones turning any headphones into a wireless lossless properly amped kit.


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## Sound Eq

web300m said:


> Monoprice sells one in the sixteen dollar range, not right angle though. Works fine, no messages about incompatibility.


 

 can not find a very short one in monoprice website, can u link me to where I can get one


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## web300m

I was wrong on the price, it is only twelve and change. Here is the link;
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=10557&CAWELAID=320013720000011400&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=320013720000066114&cadevice=c&gclid=CJOd9aqFqsECFWkV7AodkwIANA


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## Sound Eq

web300m said:


> I was wrong on the price, it is only twelve and change. Here is the link;
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=10557&CAWELAID=320013720000011400&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=320013720000066114&cadevice=c&gclid=CJOd9aqFqsECFWkV7AodkwIANA


 

 i saw that one i need one much shorter


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## gopanthersgo1

sound eq said:


> i saw that one i need one much shorter


you could always splice the cable and resleeve it.


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## baydude

When will there be a lighting to mini USB available so I don't have to use the big clunky CCK for my C5D and iphone 6?


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## Hapster

baydude said:


> When will there be a lighting to mini USB available so I don't have to use the big clunky CCK for my C5D and iphone 6?




Even if there was such a cable, there's no guarantee the iPhone would work with it, since iOS is a little bit more restrictive with third party devices.


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## baydude

hapster said:


> Even if there was such a cable, there's no guarantee the iPhone would work with it, since iOS is a little bit more restrictive with third party devices.


 
 But it's already confirmed the c5D DAC works w/ the iPhone ios8/9 if you use a Camera Connection Kit => usb => mini USB.. 
  
 Can't they create a certified lighting => mini USB?


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## armok13

```
[left] Hello, I would buy this cable to replace one of my DAC One Companion[/left]
```


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## Hapster

Just found this,

https://www.touchofmodern.com/sales/incharge-8a8b7c03-7add-4d16-a9d0-b858c77e1541/incharge-lightning-2-pack

Pretty cheap considering.


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## Happytalk

toxic cables said:


> Low profile Lightning cable, for the AlgoRhythm Solo-DB,
> Gold plated USB and Lightning connector.




Any updates? Does this work? Any other options? Help!


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## mrazik

To connect iP6s to Chord Mojo ( which is Lightning to mini USB ) I purchased silver cable from Lavri. He offer his cables on eBay and it works perfectly. He is from Latvia and his cables are first class crafted. Just look for Lavri cables and you will see.


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## upsguys88

Toxic Cables said:


> Low profile Lightning cable, for the AlgoRhythm Solo-DB,
> Gold plated USB and Lightning connector.


Can i purchase one of these?


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