# Expensive vs Normal RCA cables?



## yliu

So I recently got an iPod dock that outputs line out to my receiver, and I'm thinking of getting some better quality RCA cables for it. But does it make a difference? I don't get much choice, my local store only sells cheap to average priced TRS to RCA cables from Hama (it's a company from germany, I don't think they are very popular, and they don't make hi end cables) and Monster Cables (I guess I don't have to introduce it).
   
  So should I get a Monster for around 22 Euro, or an average cable for 10 Euro. Does it make a difference? 
  Oh, and I have lossless music on my ipod, I decided to get a dock because I can navigate around my music much faster and it's sometimes really annoying to put CD's in and out of the player.


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## Uncle Erik

Just use whatever cables you already have.

Cables are pseudoscience; if you believe in ghosts, Bigfoot and UFOs, you might accept the claims. Otherwise, there's no difference.

No one has ever measured an audible difference between cables.

No one has ever heard a difference when they didn't know what cable they wete listening to.

Everything else can be chalked up to local folklore and superstition. You can find numerous stories alleging that the Chupacabra or Loch Ness Monster exist, but there's never been any actual evidence. Same with cables.

You'll hear a lot of stories - especially from those who have something to sell - but they all get rather defensive when asked to provide the minimum of hard evidence.

Save your money and use what you already have.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

I don't believe cables are pseudoscience, folklore or superstition. I have nothing to sell, and nothing to gain by saying so. However, it make a lot more sense to just enjoy what you have and not worry about it. To me, cables are the last item you should be concerned with. Most folks that play with cables have a little extra cash laying around and can dabble as they please. 
   
  Just clean those connectors occasionally with a little Caig DeoxIT Gold (new and old).


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## zotjen

I am not going to discuss whether or not cables make a difference sound wise but consideration should definitely be made regarding build quality (e.g. I wouldn't buy cables from the Dollar Store). Personally, I would always stick with recognized brands, of which there are many inexpensive choices.


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## Uncle Erik

If cables _aren't_ pseudoscience, then where's the science?

I have yet to see a single cable believer apply the scientific method to cables. Instead, you just have folklore about how certain things sound certain ways. Whenever someone tries to conduct tests that establish these qualities, they fail. Then there's a frantic waving of hands and backing into illogical corners about how the tests are "unfair."

When you apply the scientific method, you have to accept the results of your tests. If your tests demonstrate your hypothesis - or belief - to be untrue, well, that's reality. You can pretend that reality doesn't exist and live in a magic fantasyland where every dream is true if you want.

But that ain't reality.


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## castlevania32

cable actually *do *make a difference. But it is in the brain of the listener.
  It's not because cable sound the same, that we hear the same.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

I don't apply the scientific method when I'm listening to music for pleasure, which is 6N's of the time. I'm not objective when I perform music, and I"m not objective when I listen to music. However, I love music, and I like the high end cables that I have. I have loved experimenting with all kinds of cables, some cheap (even out of the component box) and some very, very expensive ones. Some of the cheap ones sounded pretty darn good. As I've said before, they should be the last thing on anyone's list of upgrades, but they make a difference to me. (Heck, everyone needs them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.)  I'm not trying to prove anything, or convince anyone that my personal experiences are the truth. And I'm not interested in anyone that try's to convince me otherwise. 
   
  Reality? To each their own.
   
  To the OP, just don't let cables stop you from enjoying the music.


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## Uncle Erik

I agree - music perfomance and listening are subjective. Objectively, you can quantify differences. Two different orchestras performing the same piece will be different. Though you can record each and demonstrate where they differ. How someone interprets each performance is subjective. But you can unquestionably show that each orchestra is different.

Similarly, how someone hears a performance depends on their listening, experience and understanding of the piece. It will be different for each listener and each listener changes over time.

With cables, however, you cannot demonstrate a difference between them. Neither can you show that listeners hear cables differently - as long as someone doesn't know what they're listening to.


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## Firman

Don't buy the cheapest. Mid-quality will do fine. And, I know, there is sometimes sonic difference between cables but you have to move to 20.000 USD (2 speakers, amplifier, cd-player) to hear that. For years ago I was struggeling with my home hi-fi and got an opportunity to test different speaker - and signalcables. It was obvious for me and my friends that there was a difference but sometimes it was hard to tell which combination was "best". I was looking for "air" and clarity and finally found a combination that gave me this but the trade of was weaker bas. It took a days of listening and I believe you really must have a hi-end hifi..


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## sokolov91

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> I agree - music perfomance and listening are subjective. Objectively, you can quantify differences. Two different orchestras performing the same piece will be different. Though you can record each and demonstrate where they differ. How someone interprets each performance is subjective. But you can unquestionably show that each orchestra is different.
> 
> Similarly, how someone hears a performance depends on their listening, experience and understanding of the piece. It will be different for each listener and each listener changes over time.
> 
> With cables, however, you cannot demonstrate a difference between them. Neither can you show that listeners hear cables differently - as long as someone doesn't know what they're listening to.


 
  Would be pretty cool to see brain scans of people during sighted tests vs the "he who should not be named" tests. Might be revealing.
   
  Wouldn't be surprised if in the sighted one sectors related to things other than sound were lit up much more so than in the "test who should not be named" in which the auditory part of the brain would be lit up more.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Would be pretty cool to see brain scans of people during sighted tests vs the "he who should not be named" tests. Might be revealing.
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if in the sighted one sectors related to things other than sound were lit up much more so than in the "test who should not be named" in which the auditory part of the brain would be lit up more.


 

 There was some research done some years back with regard to Coke and Pepsi.
   
  Blind, there was no particular preference for either Coke or Pepsi.
   
  Sighted, there was a distinct preference for Coke and brain scans showed increased activity in the part of the brain thought to relate to fond memories.
   
  se


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## sokolov91

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steve eddy said:


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 Thanks for that. Very interesting stuff.


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## Intjmastermind

You should get a Monoprice.com premium audio cable. Very nice cables for something like $3 a yard, or about 200 "Euros" per "meter" in your silly moon language (I kid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## Prog Rock Man

So yilu, what cable did you decide to get? Are you convinced by the advice here?


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## jelt2359

As a marketing professional, I would pay for good marketing! (Which is basically what I'm paying for with my Diet Coke anyway...)
   
  More objectively (I use that word loosely), if a disease like upgraditis can only be cured via paying more for something with more perceived (vs actual) value, then why not, no? Mmmm... those shiny cables...


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## kingu

I have tried bad cables, they sound very bad, is very obvious
   
  so if there is bad cables, there are good cables
   
  a normal copper cable can sound 99.9% good but a Oxygen Free Copper Cable can sound 99.99%, OFC 5N Copper Cable can sound 99.999% , etc...
   
  it gets better, but difference is not great and the cost is not in ratio


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## Welly Wu

Please take a look at my detailed Head-Fi user profile to see my list of high fidelity components. I published a review comparing my Cardas Golden Reference interconnects versus Blue Jeans Cables Stereo RCA interconnects years ago; please do a search.
   
  I would fail a double blind test comparing cables. So, let me state that upfront.
   
  I have the good fortune of owning cheap RCA and power cords, Blue Jeans Cables products, High Fidelity branded products, and custom cabling for specific components such as DNM Reson for my Resolution Audio Opus 21 and Balanced Power Technologies power cord. I can tell you that I can hear slight differences between the cheap stuff and Blue Jeans Cables products. I cannot hear any differences when comparing Blue Jeans Cables products to my Cardas and custom cables. However, I will not sell these exotic and expensive cables.
   
  I would recommend that you purchase Blue Jeans Cables products and stick with your stock power cords for your components. Save your money to buy higher quality components or more music or both.
   
  If you read high fidelity reviews about exotic high fidelity branded cables, then you should be very cautious before accepting the conclusion of the article. They get paid to review products and the various high end audio companies pay for advertising for their products including their cables.
   
  I cannot recommend other brands that I have not tried in my audio system.
   
  I stopped buying exotic cables years ago and I focused on building up my music collection. This decision has greatly increased my enjoyment of music and my high fidelity audio system more than any other purchase.


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## yliu

Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> So yilu, what cable did you decide to get? Are you convinced by the advice here?


 


  I'm still deciding... I might just old my old cable.


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## scottiebabie

well i scored a set of Aural Thrills IC cables which came in lastweek. compared to my $10 Accoustic Research RCAs, my jaws dropped when i heard them. to me, the difference is as much as a DAC upgrade. all the harshness vaporized & are replaced by clarity, definition, dynamics & extension. 
   
  i bought a used set of DIY pure solid core silver mini-RCA from a fellow forumer from a across the pond & the same thing happened again when i heard after comparing it with a cheap $3 mini-RCA i've been using,
   
  i was in the cable kafir crowd for the longest before foraying into the dark side. now im totally flabbergasted by the results & mesmerized by cable voodoo. the force is strong in em good cables. i scored both those cables for btwn $50-60 so perhaps one dont need to spend ya entire fortune on snake oil but man them be gooood oil. my recco is buy a decent set of cables at the very least. buy used & sell or trade upwards when u can justify it financially & sonically. but u wont gain a single thing if u dont try it 1st. Just my 2cents ofcos. YMMV


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## naike

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steve eddy said:


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 I don't agree, I can taste the difference and it's pretty major in my opinion. Yes I have blind tested pepsi and coke with a friend.


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## sokolov91

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naike said:


> Quote:
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 Well this example is not perfect because there is a discernible difference -Coke and Pepsi do indeed taste different. Depending on when the experiment was done, you have to factor in social stuff too like Coke being viewed as superior, cooler, etc.
   
  They probably mentioned in their discussion that the brain measurements were a little biased because most people liked coke the best, so the sighted tests might have had a higher influence than normal.
   
  Like if you get 24 peeps and 12 love pepsi, 12 love coke you would still draw the same conclusions - that preference makes a difference in a sighted environment.
   
  Blind you are using only your tongue and nose to make judgment. Sighted you are also using preconceived notions and thus regions of the brain not associated with purely taste are lit up.
   
  Your opinion vs a scientific experiment isn't much either. Not to mention you are completely missing the point of the reference to this study.
   
  This has more to do than just with you can tell them apart. It has to do how biased sighted tests are and how they are self fulfilling prophecies in my ways.


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## BlackbeardBen

I've asked for Coke in a restaurant before, been brought a cola drink in a glass labeled "Coke", and unhappily recognized it (correctly as confirmed by the wait staff) as Pepsi.
  
  I've heard that some say the sweeter taste of Pepsi is the reason why it does so well in blind tests, where the aftertaste takes a back seat to the initial taste.  But then again, that's just hearsay.
   
  Anyway, I see or hear no evidence that better cables make any difference when you can't see them.


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## imademymark

actually in that blind test in small quantities most people preferred pepsi (might be because it is sweeter), but sighted, most people preferred coke


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## Dogbandit

jelt2359 said:


> As a marketing professional, I would pay for good marketing! (Which is basically what I'm paying for with my Diet Coke anyway...)
> 
> More objectively (I use that word loosely), if a disease like upgraditis can only be cured via paying more for something with more perceived (vs actual) value, then why not, no? Mmmm... those shiny cables...


Upgraditis - that's what I have, for sure.  I just cannot stop upgrading each element in rotation.  Will it ever end??


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## Henley2

I'm using Belden 8402 based on recommendations online. Very nice inexpensive cable (lot of Ebay vendors)


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## Speedskater

Henley2 said:


> I'm using Belden 8402 based on recommendations online. Very nice inexpensive cable (lot of Ebay vendors)


Belden makes many very nice cables.  #8402 would make a good balanced XLR portable microphone cable. Not so much for a RCA cable.  For a RCA cable chose a Belden coax with a heavy braided shield.


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