# Feliks-Audio EUFORIA - A Wolf in "Sheep's" Clothing...



## hypnos1 (May 10, 2017)

WELCOME to all owners and followers of F-A's Elise Tube Amp who are now interested in moving up into even more lofty territory...with their new OTL amp, EUFORIA.

 A warm welcome also to those perhaps new to the Feliks-Audio name...in addition to the very successful 'Elise', their previous budget-price 'Espressivo' is currently undergoing a resurgence in interest and gaining high praise in reviews. I shall be posting links to threads and other info that might prove interesting for background research later on, and at the end of this first post...which I shall keep updated as often as possible.

 But now on to the new amp in question...and why the heading statement?!  :  basically, because from the _outside_ this amp looks just like the Elise, and does in fact retain the same tube complement - 2x 6SN7 drivers and 2x 6AS7G/6080 powers. But after considering my request for possible upgrades to just my own amp, the project blossomed into something rather bigger, and in fact became what they had in mind for a next model!

 They found that the alterations/upgrades engineered by the family firm's boss, Henryk Feliks, resulted in such a leap in performance - without having to incur MUCH higher cost with a totally new case, bigger transformer etc. - that it did indeed warrant a completely new name, rather than another Elise variant....hence EUFORIA was born!

 So..."Wolf"?..."Sheep"?...perhaps the latter isn't strictly correct, because the Elise is FAR from being a sheep that merely follows others...it _*leads!!*_ I use the word 'Sheep' advisedly, because going from Elise to Euforia hits you in such a way that is, at first, somewhat perplexing as you look at the 'clothing'...a _Wolf_ does indeed jump out at you from under its cloak!

 The first surprise is a dynamic presentation that certainly had me wondering how this could be from 'just' upgrading certain components and circuitry - a very naive initial thought, until I looked further into the extensive _internal_ alterations...and could _fully_ appreciate Mr Feliks's "work of art".

 Then you notice the increased detail resolution, over and above the excellent handling by Elise. This is accompanied by impeccable control across the entire frequency range...instruments and voices are positioned in their own space, but remain nicely balanced within a coherent, expansive soundstage.

 Another area that surprises is its consummate ability in the _speed_ arena - this does take it to quite another level of performance...from initial note attack through to maintaining complete control of fast, complex runs at all frequencies...whether bass rolls or top hat histrionics!! Everything seems to be so _effortless_ in this amp's capable hands. And turning up the volume pot brings greater delights still...delivery remains so smooth, right up to ear-shattering levels. Once again, its handling of dynamics leaves you confident that you can indeed go the occasional "extra mile" in the volume stakes without either the sound breaking up horribly, or your ears having to suffer from the amp's loss of exquisite control...very encouraging indeed, in my book lol!

 These are just the more obvious qualities of this amp...there are more, but indigestion must be setting in for some! Further observations of my own, along with those of soon-to-be-owners will come later. These are also from 'just' the stock tubes...things begin to get even more exciting with higher grade tubes - especially those 'alternatives' that (as yet!) are not _officially_ sanctioned by F-A, but which are proving to be suitable (and safe), from extensive trials by myself and senior members of the Elise threads.

 From my own initial tube rolling in Euforia, it is already apparent that this amp matches Elise's supremacy in regard to flexibility in this area, and its 'neutral' signature will allow fine tuning to one's own personal tastes, afforded by the luxury of a very wide choice of tubes...especially the drivers.

 All in all, I believe Feliks-Audio have once again raised the bar in the performance/price arena, and will appeal to those who yearn for a taste of "summit-fi" at what I personally consider a very reasonable price indeed...especially for a high quality, non-factory-production-line product made to order.

 And so for now, a list of the main upgrades/alterations over Elise....further specs and info/ordering over at the Feliks-Audio website : http://feliksaudio.pl
 Or email Lukasz (Feliks) direct : info@feliksaudio.pl

*1*. _*Pure silver wire for signal paths...teflon-tubed.*_
_*2. Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors.*_
_*3. Dale and Caddock resistors in new circuits.*_
_*4. High quality Teflon sockets with gold-plated pin receptors.*_
_*5. High quality gold-plated RCA connectors.*_
_*6. Improved noise reduction for power supply, RFI/EMI.*_
_*7. Upgraded PsVane 6SN7 drivers...(still the Russian 6N13S/6H13C powers).
 8. Upgraded transformer.
 9. Removal/reduction of spike at switch-off.*_

 As with Elise, there is pre-amp out (with protective circuitry for Direct-coupled amps)

 A few pictures to be going on with  :

 My prototype next to early Elise- the only actual size
 increase being the transformer housing..  :





 Some circuitry blurred for protection reasons!..  :                                 



 Price : $1399, but currently being offered at a 10% pre-order discount...

 (Apparently some minor cosmetic changes being made to the exterior, so will hopefully have the up-to-date look soon).

 Other useful associated links, if interested...(Elise info will give a good background to this new amp, plus recommended tubes and related subjects).

http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary   (more information on Euforia in my most recent posts)

http://www.head-fi.org/t/732875/feliks-audio-elise-previously-6sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/765460/feliks-audio-elise-tube-rolling-guide-6sn7-6as7g-6080-5998

 My other gear : Oppo BDP103 as media player (Redbook & hi-res files); Custom made Malbru Tube DAC, based on ESS Sabre 9018 (ECC85/E88cc tube output; silver wire for signal line); pure silver interconnects; Beyer T1 (v1); PowerInspired Mains Regenerator; high quality insulated mains/unit power cables.
Edit. As of April/May 2017, media playback is via Naim Uniti Core (server/streamer/CD ripper/internal HDD or SSD/external media); Chord Hugo 2 DAC; Airlink Transformers Balanced Mains unit, with Avery Magnetics "Advanced Filter System".

 Cheers for now....CJ


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## aqsw

Im second.

My euforia is booked.


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## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Im second.
> 
> My euforia is booked.


 
  
 Welcome aboard aqsw...will be interested to hear what you've asked poor old Lukasz to do lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...CHEERS!...


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## UntilThen

Hello H1 and Aqsw. 

My euforia is in the oven now and should be ready by late Feb / early Mar.

Looking forward.


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## aqsw

Hey Ut. Good to talk to you again. Sometimes I think I'm insane chasing my audio dream. Then I think of you!
LOL


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## aqsw

H1 and I know the real secret already though. We have something in common that you guys don't. 

Hint:
It has tubes too!


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## connieflyer

Boy I am glad you added that "it has tubes too!"  Well, looks like we are on another journey in listening pleasure.  End of February-March we should be starting the roll, roll, roll your tubes.  Looks like a good starting crowd, wonder how many they have sold already? @hypnos1 don't let this thread go to your head, we are watching!


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## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey Ut. Good to talk to you again. Sometimes I think I'm insane chasing my audio dream. Then I think of you!
> LOL


 
 Try not to think of me. Think of euforia.


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## UntilThen

8 posts and not a single photo. It's time to post @hypnos1 own photo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Euforia on the left. Elise on the right.


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## UntilThen

Hello @aqsw and @connieflyer good to see you guys here. What are your invoice numbers.

Aq what other upgrade did you do?


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## connieflyer

My invoice number is 099, and expect it any day now. okay next month. What month is it now anyways, to early  to be doing this but, had to get up and see how much snow we had during the night.  Should have stayed in bed.
 I am sure @hypnos1 is up and around by now, and sadly over worked from his monumental tome so just grab an Earl Gray and listen to this and let the day slowly develop. Hah, first video!


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## connieflyer

I think AQ is having his delivered with bacon and eggs, whoa that sounds good, maybe I better get some breakfast and leave here a bit. Our fearless leader has not woke up yet.


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## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hello H1 and Aqsw.
> 
> My euforia is in the oven now and should be ready by late Feb / early Mar.
> 
> Looking forward.


 
  
 Hi UT...late Feb/early Mar?...can't wait that long ol' boy - get 'em to stoke up that boiler a good few degrees lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but please don't tell Lukasz I said so!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...CHEERS!...
  
 ps. Thanks for posting the photo of Euforia sitting next to little sis Elise...which, I suppose, urges me to now denote the new amp 'he/him' as opposed to 'she/her'..._such power!!_...(mind you, those 'Amazonian' gals are no slouch either lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I promise to get some pics on post#1 soon...._when I've recovered!! _





...cf is spot on!!
  


connieflyer said:


> Boy I am glad you added that "it has tubes too!"  Well, looks like we are on another journey in listening pleasure.  End of February-March we should be starting the roll, roll, roll your tubes.  Looks like a good starting crowd, wonder how many they have sold already? @hypnos1 don't let this thread go to your head, we are watching!


 
  
 Yo guys...just a few more tweaks to make to that intro - despite further indigestion lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and you want to keep watching, cf?...sure your poor ol' stomach can take it?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


connieflyer said:


> My invoice number is 099, and expect it any day now. okay next month. What month is it now anyways, to early  to be doing this but, had to get up and see how much snow we had during the night.  Should have stayed in bed.
> I am sure @hypnos1 is up and around by now, and sadly over worked from his monumental tome so just grab an Earl Gray and listen to this and let the day slowly develop. Hah, first video!




  
 Hmmmm, cf...need something a bit stronger than Earl Grey just now, my friend.....but the EG will indeed be most welcome later on today....and that lovely music shall soothe the furrowed brow this evening - *IF *I get five minutes rest, that is!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...BFN...
  
 ps. RFTs now on their way to Poland...fingers crossed!!...


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## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> H1 and I know the real secret already though. We have something in common that you guys don't.
> 
> Hint:
> It has tubes too!


 
  
 Wonder if we need more clues, lol?...I too am quite sure "it" is indeed helping things along _very_ nicely!!...just you wait, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but let's just hope not for _too_ long! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


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## UntilThen

@hypnos1 my wish for Euforia is covered here. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/5250#post_13159990
  
 Your 1st post here has granted me my wish. Now I just need to hear it for myself. Alas I have to wait for early March because I've requested a black and gold version.


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## connieflyer

So what is your invoice number ut?


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## pctazhp

Hello guys)) Congratulations H1. This thread represents a significant accomplishment for you. Thanks for all the great work.
  
 For the moment I will have to remain an honorary member while I figure out how I'm going to coordinate my own new Euforia with my pending move.
  
 I woke up this morning at the other thread to the music of Telstar and the Tornadoes, courtesy of @connieflyer. Also, CF, I can't beleve you remembered Duane Eddy and Jorgan Engmann))))) There should be some special reward for that. Not quite in the league of H1's new thread, but worthy of mention nonetheless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Then I was treated to a truly inspiring discussion of rolling DACs vs rolling tubes. I got a cup of coffee and quickly high tailed it over here.
  
 My main goal in life over the past several weeks was to be the first person after H1 to post on this new thread, but like the name of this band, I was:


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## connieflyer

I go back further than I like to remember sometimes.  I know what you mean about asleep at the wheel, by time I got the notice, I was down to third, unless you count H1, but it is his thread so he doesn't count!


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## canthearyou

Any power specs for this new amp?


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## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 my wish for Euforia is covered here.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/5250#post_13159990
> 
> Your 1st post here has granted me my wish. Now I just need to hear it for myself. Alas I have to wait for early March because I've requested a black and gold version.


 
  
 Yo UT...looks like it was a case of "Your wish is my Command" lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...with a good few extras thrown in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(yours is a really nice _super_-condensed summary though...CHEERS!...).
  
 And thanks guys for your kind words of welcome...I'm sure this thread will be as warm, friendly and inviting as the other _Elise_ threads...with the occasional bit of 'serious' stuff thrown in for good measure LOL!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. Glad you weren't asleep for TOO long, @pctazhp and @connieflyer...you're gonna have to be on the ball here, y'know! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


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## hypnos1

canthearyou said:


> Any power specs for this new amp?


 
  
 Hi canthearyou...will give Lukasz a buzz and try to get more details...(have a feeling that _techically_ there might not be much difference to the Elise, but _performance-wise_ it certainly _sounds_ more powerful - the kind of anomaly that seems to confound lucky owners of Yamamoto amps!).


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## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> So what is your invoice number ut?




97


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## pctazhp

I want to get something off my chest. Obviously, the following is just my opinion. If anyone currently here thinks my comments are inappropriate I will happily edit this post and delete my comments. Just PM me.
  
 By all accounts the Euphoria is going to be every bit as flexible as Elise and accommodate many different tubes and combos. I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s experiences as Euforia amps start to hit the field. However, I’m hoping this thread will not be misused by anyone who will be joining us as a means of promoting someone’s self-professed expertise and deep knowledge of tubes. As far as I know, no one on the Elise threads is an Electrical Engineer or has similar credentials. If someone joins us with such real expertise it would be nice to know about it and learn from their knowledge. But most of us are just hobbyists.
  
 I think that for many, including me, investment in an Euforia will involve serious money. We can all gain by sharing our experiences. But I hope we will respect each other as we share those experiences.


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## connieflyer

I would agree with you on that statement. It doesn't help to have reviews over and over and over again claiming that it's the best most fantastic sounding combination in the entire universe and then the very next day turn around and say the same thing with another tube combo. People that do not have experience with a tube amp reads that and says there's no way I can keep up buying stupendously expensive tubes every single day so that I would have the best sounding amp I could. It's stupid. And if I am out of line please ask me to leave you won't need to show me the door I think I can find it myself well I do have a flashlight


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I would agree with you on that statement. It doesn't help to have reviews over and over and over again claiming that it's the best most fantastic sounding combination in the entire universe and then the very next day turn around and say the same thing with another tube combo. People that do not have experience with a tube amp reads that and says there's no way I can keep up buying stupendously expensive tubes every single day so that I would have the best sounding amp I could. It's stupid. *And if I am out of line please ask me to leave you won't need to show me the door I think I can find it myself well I do have a flashlight*


 
 Not going to happen. "You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!"
  
 Edit: My apologies. I should have attributed the quote. It's from the famous Eagles song "Hotel Arizona"


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## hypnos1

Yo @pctazhp and @connieflyer...my hope is indeed that here we shall have measured, balanced, _realistic_ statements on one's findings...notwithstanding a _certain__(!)_ amount of genuine joy and surprise at what this amp may well generate lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I think I can safely say that Euforia will most certainly _not_ disappoint...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And now I need to try and catch up on a bit of sleep....'bye for now...


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## angpsi

Hi guys! Just for the sake of it, would be interested to know which other amps would you compare to the Euforia given the price point/sonic signature? Obviously this goes to @hypnos1 who's arguably the only one with actual ears on experience here; but I'd also welcome estimates from the other esteemed members of the Elise/Euforia appreciation club.

On a different note, @hypnos1 I'm sure you are aware of the connotation that your handle has in the Greek language, right? Have a good night's rest then, our guru...


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## Spork67

Hi guys.
 Will follow this thread with interest.


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## RedBull

Subscribed. 

UT, you are right, EL3N as driver sounds very nice. It removes the slightly extra warmth that I like less with the stock TS 6SN7 driver.


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## Andrew Rieger

Sounds yummy, can't wait to hear impressions. I just happen to be in the market for a nice tube amp.


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## connieflyer

@pctazhp just a little sad song on your leaving the US for another undiscovered country with no interenet, no music and they have banned me from entering their country!


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## connieflyer

Okay, I got us over page three the rest is easy, join the fun. I think I just saw @UntilThen in this video


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## connieflyer

One last ancient one and I turn over control of your musical interludes
  
 
  
  
 Love the old choreography back in the day


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp just a little sad song on your leaving the US for another undiscovered country with no interenet, no music and they have banned me from entering their country!





 Comrade: Do you own a museum of 150 antique jukeboxes all stocked with Blasts From the Past???? Truly awe inspiring


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## connieflyer

I do


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## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Hi guys! Just for the sake of it, would be interested to know which other amps would you compare to the Euforia given the price point/sonic signature? Obviously this goes to @hypnos1 who's arguably the only one with actual ears on experience here; but I'd also welcome estimates from the other esteemed members of the Elise/Euforia appreciation club.
> 
> On a different note, @hypnos1 I'm sure you are aware of the connotation that your handle has in the Greek language, right? Have a good night's rest then, our guru...


 
  
 Difficult one as yet I'm afraid, angpsi.
  
 Unfortunately I myself haven't yet had the opportunity to compare with the likes of EC's Zana Deux; Cavalli's Liquid range; WooAudio's WA2/22; Bottlehead's Mainline (Kit form) etc....but this is the sort of company in which I would hope Euforia can hold its own _reasonably_ at least! I hope there might be these, or similarly priced units at our local head-fi meet here in Milton Keynes, UK in April. I am, of course(!) extremely keen to see just how this amp compares...along with a good few others, no doubt lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 By the same token, I imagine 'estimates' from others are not really feasible/reliable alas, without actually hearing Euforia...so let's all hope and pray for speedy work from the guys in Poland...not to mention minimal delays en route to their lucky owners!...


spork67 said:


> Hi guys.
> Will follow this thread with interest.


 
  
 Had a feeling you just might, S67...good to hear from you once more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


redbull said:


> Subscribed.
> 
> UT, you are right, EL3N as driver sounds very nice. It removes the slightly extra warmth that I like less with the stock TS 6SN7 driver.


 
  
 Welcome RedBull...EL3N sure is one mighty tube. You want to hear how the EL11 sounds in Euforia lol!...(but what this amp does for the rare *mesh*-plated '40s Black Glass Valvo version - or old, _Australian_ EL3N*G *- is truly breathtaking, and I'll be giving more details on the sound from these 'alternative' drivers in the days to come, with photos to match....or is it these _tubes_ performing the magic on the _amp?!!)._
  
 A word on the EL11 however. Although strictly the Telefunken-designed version of the Philips EL3N, but with different base, it also has a large _*round*_ plate (anode) as opposed to the 3N's _*oval*_ design. This 'true' EL11 sounds a good bit different to the EL3N and is fast becoming the favourite in the Elise...(more details of the differences can be found over at its 'Impressions' thread).
  
 HOWEVER, one member would appear to have obtained a pair of 'Telefunkens' - named on both the tubes and the boxes - that at first sight actually seem to be "made-for Telefunken" by _*Philips*_ (stable at least)...ie. with the _oval_ plates, and therefore most probably the EL3N signature. And so careful scrutiny/comparison with other Telefunkens on offer would seem to be advised here.
  
 From what I personally have seen so far, the East German "RFT" versions would appear to be safe bets as 'true' TFK design, and perform extremely well.
  
 So now, RB, all you need is a Euforia to check all this out lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


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## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> On a different note, @hypnos1 *I'm sure you are aware *of the connotation that your handle has in the Greek language, right? Have a good night's rest then, our guru...


 
  
 Hi again...yep, sure am - I always suspected some of my diatribes would double as wonderful soporifics...far better than any sleeping pill lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However, perhaps the _other _connotation has been at play these past 2 years?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...("I couldn't possibly comment" LOL!...).
  
 ps. Had a _reasonable_ night's rest, thanks....but all this excitement does hamper sleep somewhat...(not complaining though!!)....CHEERS!...


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## rigo

Anybody know when the pre order discount will end?


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## hypnos1

andrew rieger said:


> Sounds yummy, can't wait to hear impressions. I just happen to be in the market for a nice tube amp.


 
  
 Welcome to you too, A R...I can't wait to hear others' impressions either. Will soon be posting a few more of my own...or should that be more _soporifics_ lol? ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(Elise has been described on Headfonics as "the best sub-$999 tube amp - _ever_"...and IMHO Euforia is indeed a good step or two up from there. So I personally would say it is a "_*very*_" nice tube amp!!...stay tuned...).


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## hypnos1

rigo said:


> Anybody know when the pre order discount will end?


 
  
 Hi rigo. I suspect it would most probably be end Jan...but don't quote me on it!!  I shall check with Lukasz (Sales Manager at Feliks-Audio - himself a Feliks!)....unless you want to email him directly : info@feliksaudio.pl


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## rigo

hypnos1 said:


> Hi rigo. I suspect it would most probably be end Jan...but don't quote me on it!!  I shall check with Lukasz (Sales Manager at Feliks-Audio - himself a Feliks!)....unless you want to email him directly : info@feliksaudio.pl




Thanks for the email. I contacted him and will post any information that I receive.


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## hypnos1

rigo said:


> Thanks for the email. I contacted him and will post any information that I receive.


 
  
 Good work, rigo...thanks...CJ


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## connieflyer

@pctazhp just wanted to let you know that if you can listen to this and after the vocals, listening to the guitar, if your toes aren't tapping  then you are to old to enjoy Elise, the wise one has spoken.  Actually, whenever I listen to this, I always get a smile on my face.  The picking is great, and just a happy song.   Enjoy


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## rigo

hypnos1 said:


> Good work, rigo...thanks...CJ




You were right. Up to the end of January.


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## hypnos1

rigo said:


> You were right. Up to the end of January.


 
  
 Jolly good r...perhaps I'm psychic after all - or is that _psychotic_ lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(@Oskari needn't answer that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...).
  
 But well done for clarifying that point for folks...CHEERS!...


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Jolly good r...perhaps I'm psychic after all - or is that _psychotic_ lol?!! :eek: ...(@Oskari
> needn't answer that! :wink_face: :evil: ...).




OK.


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## hypnos1

Hi guys...for anyone who may not yet have noticed, I've now included some photos (incl. internal shots) on post #1.
  
 And by the way, the sound from this amp just keeps surprising me more by the day...that old cliche "hearing things I've never heard before" kicks in with _every_ one of the many dozens of tracks I have used for testing hundreds of times over the past 2 years with Elise alone, and could have sworn there was nothing more to come lol!!
  
 Mind you, sometimes it is, actually, more down to the notes - complete with additional tones/harmonics - being positioned/separated more precisely, so as to enhance the 3D 'holographic' effect beyond anything I've ever heard before. And as for the placement of voice - especially _female... _when in the hands of a clearly masterful recording engineer, I would swear the performer is singing just for _me, _and me alone...wonderfully intimate, without being "in yer face"! : I have always loved most of Beverley Craven's work, but last night we almost made love lol!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...I have _*never *_experienced anything like this before...(and certainly haven't told "She who must be Obeyed" this...yet, anyway - sometimes they just don't understand, do they...bless 'em?!). 
  
 Here's just one of those tracks I'm talking about...especially for you @UntilThen, @pctazhp, @Oskari, @HOWIE13 and @connieflyer...but probably won't sound anything like what was caressing my ears last night! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(as I thought, only half the notes are there lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Hope you enjoy, guys....CHEERS!...
  
 
  
 Edit...looks like this link is u/s for the US!...but hopefully you should find this (Promise Me) and other tracks on your own youtube lol!....(but she's MINE!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


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## connieflyer

Unfortunately this video is not available to the U.S. market.  I will have to have a look around for her.  I do know what you mean, with the Elise fully burned in, some recordings will just grab you, in a good way to be sure.  Now that the new amp is on order, listening to the Elise, and appreciating it more, I wonder if it can get that much better. Is it just that I am going to be losing a good "friend"?


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Unfortunately this video is not available to the U.S. market.  I will have to have a look around for her.  I do know what you mean, with the Elise fully burned in, some recordings will just grab you, in a good way to be sure.  Now that the new amp is on order, listening to the Elise, and appreciating it more, I wonder if it can get that much better. Is it just that I am going to be losing a good "friend"?


 
  
 OH NO, cf...you *must* try to find it somewhere - or at least the _song_ - but her on video is _gorgeous_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hear you re. going back to music again after a good long while...tracks can indeed sometimes sound better/different, and I have always suspected that this is not only down to simple time on the amp itself (not just tube burn-in), but putting a very wide *range* of tubes - and therefore *frequencies* - through everything in the signal line... (that notorious "sonic memory" facet notwithstanding!).
  
 And yes, you will indeed be losing a good "friend"...but gaining a _*lover!!*_...(perhaps this will indeed necessitate Euforia's gender to remain _female_ after all...but of the 'Amazonian' variety...you up to that, mon ami?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ...CHEERS!...


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## connieflyer

Whoa! Amazonian? Up to it?  So many questions, so little time!  I am switching from coffee to something stronger now, thinking of Euforia and amazonian and Sophia, I need stronger drink!


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## JazzVinyl

I see from page one that the area of the original Elise that gets soooo hot, has been addressed, with the addition of an Aluminum heatsink / cooling fins in a redesigned circuit. 

That's good!


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> I see from page one that the area of the original Elise that gets soooo hot, has been addressed, with the addition of an Aluminum heatsink / cooling fins in a redesigned circuit.
> 
> That's good!


 
  
 Yo JV...certain tubes, such as the (adapted) ECC31 (the common-cathode version of the famed ECC32/CV181, as you know!) unfortunately got Elise running too hot for my liking, and so the redesigned internals are indeed a welcome revision. In fact, the new Caddock resistor circuits in Euforia ran hotter than anticipated at first, and the designer, Henryk Feliks, made revisions to the revisions lol!...and the end result is very impressive-looking (and sounding!) indeed - even better in the flesh, as I was asked to lower the photo resolutions and blur certain circuits as design protection...All in all, a different animal for sure, even though it still _looks_ like an Elise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you, thank you @hypnos1 for the video. Song is lovely.
  
 Euforia's internal looks neat and I can see the teflon-tubed silver wire.


----------



## connieflyer

@hypnos1 thanks for the link she has a great voice I return the favor


----------



## connieflyer

Could this be competition?


----------



## connieflyer

And for those that have never heard the full version of Taps or Il Silenzio


----------



## aqsw

Well, lucasz could not do the upgrade I wanted, so Im getting a regulwr Euforia. If there is such a thing. My invoice is #101.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Well, lucasz could not do the upgrade I wanted, so Im getting a regulwr Euforia. If there is such a thing. My invoice is #101.


 
 What upgrade did you want? A balanced Euforia?


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> What upgrade did you want? A balanced Euforia?




Exactly.


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> Exactly.


 

 I don't understand F-A at all. Such a simple upgrade. How uncooperative of them!!! After all, it's not as if you had asked them to personally sign your ownership certificate


----------



## connieflyer

They signed mine!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> They signed mine!


 

 Of course they did. You're The Man


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp do you remember the Scorpions?


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> I don't understand F-A at all. Such a simple upgrade. How uncooperative of them!!! After all, it's not as if you had asked them to personally sign your ownership certificate :etysmile:




Money usually does talk.Not this time though.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp do you remember the Scorpions?


 
 I must confess I don't, but I like them a lot.
  
 I do remember getting stung by them 2 or 3 times, because I always violate Arizona law that strictly prohibits walking around barefooted !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Lmao! Hope you did not hurt them!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I don't understand F-A at all. *Such a simple upgrade.* How uncooperative of them!!! After all, it's not as if you had asked them to personally sign your ownership certificate


 
  
 Hi pct...you were joking of course, mon ami?!!! As you know, *fully *balanced is no mean undertaking...anything else - as Glenn of Glenn amps says (and others lol!) - *no point otherwise!*





...(not to mention some really hi-end stuff still Single-Ended!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 But fear not @aqsw...you will be more than satisfied with her SE status lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*guaranteed!!*_...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct...you were joking of course, mon ami?!!! As you know, *fully *balanced is no mean undertaking...anything else - as Glenn of Glenn amps says (and others lol!) - *no point otherwise!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1. I was certainly joking. I have long believed balanced circuitry in the desktop environment serves no purpose. And I'm aware of Glenn's view on the subject. The balanced cable that came with my HD800S will probably live out its natural life unopened in the box it came in.


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> H1. I was certainly joking. I have long believed balanced circuitry in the desktop environment serves no purpose. And I'm aware of Glenn's view on the subject. The balanced cable that came with my HD800S will probably live out its natural life unopened in the box it came in.


(

I only have balanced cables, so I get pigtails made up. 4" long. Balansed to 6.3 cm SE.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1. I was certainly joking. I have long believed balanced circuitry in the desktop environment serves no purpose. And I'm aware of Glenn's view on the subject. The balanced cable that came with my HD800S will probably live out its natural life unopened in the box it came in.


 
  
 Thought as much, mon ami...but you nearly had me there lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


aqsw said:


> (
> 
> I only have balanced cables, so I get pigtails made up. 4" long. Balansed to 6.3 cm SE.


 
  
 Yo aqsw...I hear you re. the HP connection at the amp lol - would indeed be more _convenient_ for those with balanced ends on their cables...but I can understand folks like F-A not believing the extra work/cost being really worthwhile ...especially when precisely the same thing is achieved by the 'pigtails' you mentioned...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(especially when they're good quality ones, which I'm sure is true in your own case!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## connieflyer

Afternoon's with @hypnos1  or so I have been told


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Afternoon's with @hypnos1  or so I have been told




 Ah yes, cf...this man has REAL taste...so long as it's the _*leaf*_, not a _*bag*_! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..(but suspect it just might not have been James T's "cup of tea" lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > H1. I was certainly joking. I have long believed balanced circuitry in the desktop environment serves no purpose. And I'm aware of Glenn's view on the subject. The balanced cable that came with my HD800S will probably live out its natural life unopened in the box it came in.
> ...


 

 I do put 4 pin XLR conectors on all my amps now but I don't think there is any improvement in sound. 
 Do this because people want it. Maybe it is a better connection?? But I can see it is not worth the hassle for FA and 1/2 the people will never use it.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I do put 4 pin XLR conectors on all my amps now but I don't think there is any improvement in sound.
> Do this because people want it. Maybe it is a better connection?? But I can see it is not worth the hassle for FA *and 1/2 the people will never use it.*


 
  
 Yo Glenn...I'd say probably even _more_ than half lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Right folks, for those who may not have been looking in on the Elise "Impressions" thread, it's time to update on the latest 'alternative' drivers that I have been using exclusively now in the new amp, after successful initial trials in Elise...ie. the *EL11* (which requires an adapter).
  
 But first, just a quick word on these 'alternatives' that I and others have been using in Elise for a long while now : although not _officially_ endorsed by F-A, we have always checked with them that these tubes are at least not likely to cause any real damage. But as with any amp, of course, we use them at our own risk, and I personally (along with the more cautious members!) never recommend any tube that I (we) myself (ourselves) haven't tested for _*many*_ hours, and only if there appears nothing untoward whatsoever. Naturally, nothing can ever be guaranteed over the _extreme_ long period...but I'm quite sure that _usually_ there would be _some_ indication that something isn't quite right long before any major problems arise!
  
 And just _*why*_ do we veer from stock tubes?...as most folks know, current amp manufacturers are limited with more recently produced tubes, and which are therefore offered as stock. Most find, in fact, that (much) older tubes usually deliver better sound, if not quite so reliable (sometimes lol!).
  
 But after having great success trying different _families_ of tubes in my LittleDot MKIV SE, I experimented (very warily!) with my new Elise and had wonderful results from adapting the excellent C3g...surprisingly so, given the 6SN7 circuit! Even though not configured for this driver, the C3g did in fact outperform all the 6SN7s I personally tried...including several VT231s and the top-tier Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 7N7. Other tubes followed - the 12V FDD20 (using external PS); ECC31; 6N7G; Philips EL3N and now its Telefunken "equivalent", the EL11. Different folks had their own preferences, of course, but most ended up staying with their own 'alternative' tubes. 
  
 These results confounded not only ourselves, but Feliks-Audio too...we were all amazed at the versatility/flexibility of the amp's design...not to mention its very forgiving nature lol!!
  
 As I (and others) have found that the EL11 delivers even 'better' performance (or, rather, appeals to even more folks than the EL3N, which Glenn of Glenn amps is _mightily_ impressed with), I no longer feel the need to stay on the merry-go-round of tube rolling (???!!!)...it seems this tube could have been made specifically for both Elise AND Euforia, and I have in fact sent a pair to F-A for further testing in the hope they might be able to make their own 'approved' adapters for it...
  
 And so, just for now, here's a teaser on how my own tubes look in my prototype Euforia, driving my GEC CV2523s (6AS7G)  -  (I have removed the original EL11 bases and adapted with new 6SN7 ones...)  :
  

  
 These particular EL11s are '40s Black Glass Valvos, which are actually a bit different to the usual Telefunken design - these are in fact of a Philips design, using their _*oval*_ plates - as in the EL3N. But in addition, I've been extremely fortunate to stumble across some obviously very rare examples with _*mesh*_ plates, as opposed to the normal *solid*. Their sound is somewhere between the Philips EL3N and the TFK EL11...but even better - will give more detail another time. However, the "true" TFK (round plate) sound is still wonderful, along with its E. German brother, the RFT brand. *HOWEVER*...the _usual_ Valvo; Tungsram; Tesla, Philips MiniWatt EL11s have the _oval_ plates and sound more like the EL3N than the TFK/RFT...*AND* one member has already (unfortunately) found that a pair of tubes labelled and boxed as Telefunkens were apparently made for TFK _*by Philips!!*_...ie with the _oval_ plates, and may possibly therefore not sound quite the same as the "true" TFKs...will update on this later also....
  
 Anyway, here's a lineup of some of my EL3Ns and EL11s :
  

  
 Plus some nice-looking Black Glass TFK EL11s :
  

  
 All I can say is...I advise you stock up on these EL11s _*while you can*_ - I've a feeling they're gonna disappear rather fast alas!...(unless as sometimes happens, new stocks of old tubes suddenly appear as they become more popular...but wouldn't count on it lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)....CHEERS! for now...time for dinner...


----------



## connieflyer

As usual h well said and very understandable. Those black glass tubes really look sharp. I may have to get a can of dip it and put all my tubes in their colored black. I know I know just kidding. I can see you are already reaching for your keyboard as soon as you saw I said dip it!


----------



## UntilThen

I find all the Pentodes (C3G, EL3N, EL11, EL12) that we've been using as triodes-strapped in Elise sounded much  better than some of the 6SN7s that I've.


----------



## hypnos1

canthearyou said:


> Any power specs for this new amp?


 
  
 Hi again canthearyou.
  
 As I supected, the tech. specs are about the same as Elise...on this page : http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php
  
 And Lukasz confirmed that the new circuitry and upgraded caps & resistors do indeed provide "stronger and cleaner power delivery"...
  
 Hope this is of help to you...and others...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I find all the Pentodes (C3G, EL3N, EL11, EL12) that we've been using as triodes-strapped in Elise sounded much  better than some of the 6SN7s that I've.


 
  
 Yes indeed UT...Elise and Euforia's 6SN7 circuit does wonders for the triode-strapped pentodes we've tried already - way beyond everyone's expectations lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But having said that, great results can still be had with tubes they were actually configured for lol! - especially those fortunate enough to already possess the very best examples. As with Elise, folks are faced with quite a bewildering array of choices - especially the drivers...and I'm sure this alone gives these amps an edge over many rivals...along with a host of other attractive qualities!!


----------



## aqsw

I hear how good the el11s sre, but I stopped chasing tubes. I started with fdd20 and ecc31, went through a hole bunch till I hit the EL3n. I bought 8 of them. I like their sound with stock powers. Cant chase every new tube of the day.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, life's been keeping me away from reading this thread yet, but thought I'd post this. Upon some recent "deep thoughts" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 about considering the Euforia, the following struck me regarding possible comparisons of it with other more expensive headphone amps, and I wanted to see what anyone else has to say about this:
  

Would it be worth it if theoretically another amp at 5x the cost ($6,000) yields 50% better sound?
  (I wouldn't think so)
Would it be worth it if theoretically another amp at 3x the cost ($3,600) yields 30% better sound?
  (I wouldn't think so)
Would it be worth it if theoretically another amp at 2x the cost ($2,400) yields 20% better sound?
  (I _still _wouldn't think so)
  
 To me it seems that the Euforia should be an unbeatable price/performance ratio at only the approx. $1,200 price tag with legendary performance that's reportedly several leagues even above the Elise, and to pay for an amp that much more expensive would only result on a slap of the bank account for diminishing returns...
  
 What says H1 on this? Oh and also a burning question:
  
 Do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game? Nevertheless I would still be interested to see how the Euforia does compare to higher pricier amps such as Liquid Glass, Zana Deux Super, Studio Six and Liquid Tungsten, but from my speculation it would seem the price/performance may still be in favor of the Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm taking Euforia to Sydney Can Con 7 in June 2017.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/799815/can-con-6-impressions-thread-27th-february-2016/75


----------



## Oskari

There is no such thing as 20% better sound. This is not quantifiable.

The mere idea of a headphone amp costing $6000 is obscene.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> There is no such thing as 20% better sound. This is not quantifiable.
> 
> The mere idea of a headphone amp costing $6000 is obscene.


 
 I was thinking about that too. How do you determine that amp X is 50% better than amp Y? Surely that's a figure pluck up out of the air. It is all subjective. It's not something you can measure.
  
 Our goal in Head-Fi is not to buy the most expensive amp, dac and headphone. If you have no temperance, you will soon lose your mind and your pennies. Rather your goal should be to buy what you can reasonably afford and yet sound like a million bucks. Don't lust after $6000 amp and $4000 headphones.


----------



## DecentLevi

decentlevi said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Would it be worth it if theoretically another amp at 5x the cost ($6,000) yields 50% better sound?
> ...


 
 Oh dear my point was missed


----------



## UntilThen

No DL your point wasn't missed. 
  
 My 1st paragraph was to affirm what Oskari said. That 20%, 30% and 50% is not quantifiable.
  
 My 2nd paragrah wasn't directed at you. It's a comment I make in general.


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah I was saying that from what I've heard, the Euforia _may potentially_ compete with summit-fi amps costing much more, so if one would _theoretically _gain only a small improvement from a greatly more expensive amp, the ball still lies on Euforia's side for bang-for-buck.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Yeah I was saying that from what I've heard, the Euforia _may potentially_ compete with summit-fi amps costing much more, so if one would _theoretically _gain only a small improvement from a greatly more expensive amp, the ball still lies on Euforia's side for bang-for-buck.


 
 Bang for bucks depends on who looks at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The guys who owns a Lamborghini will says it's the best half a million spent on his Lambo while the guy who owns a $80,000 BMW 323 will says it's a wise move, drives well, have street cred and left over change for a coffee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No DL, I don't mean to refute everything you say. As an FA fan, I agree with you.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> I was thinking about that too. How do you determine that amp X is 50% better than amp Y? Surely that's a figure pluck up out of the air. It is all subjective. It's not something you can measure.
> 
> Our goal in Head-Fi is not to buy the most expensive amp, dac and headphone. If you have no temperance, you will soon lose your mind and your pennies. Rather your goal should be to buy what you can reasonably afford and yet sound like a million bucks. Don't lust after $6000 amp and $4000 headphones.


 

 I'd say that it's almost always a matter of sense (subjective) and synergy (mildly objective). Personally I picked up the Elise to be a TOTL amp for my Senn HD600. At the time I was looking into models of comparable prices, starting from the O2 and the Magni/Modi all the way to the Espressivo. Then I got to hear how the Bottlehead Crack plus Speedball was supposed to be a top pair to the Senns. The price was obviously higher but by then I'd figured that most people considered OTL designs a perfect match for the HD600/650s. That's, more or less how I got to the Elise thread, and from there the Elise itself. The amp definitely reaches for much more $ than the HD600s themselves, but they were known to scale and I wanted to give them a feed that came as good as it may get for a reasonable amount (tube rolling aside, but you guys already got your inventory set up). Thankfully, so far I've been enjoying my music immensely—and hopefully my experimentation with the new tubes will reward me even further for breaking the bank.
  
 Obviously I still lust to hear how the new Orpheus sounds, or  a full discrete Questyle setup, or a Blue Hawaii with e.g. a TotalDAC, or @Frederick Rea's Lampizator. But I wouldn't expect the HD600s to match their performance, same as I'd expect a TOTL set (e.g. your Beyers T1, the Focals, or the Senns HD800s) would. In that aspect, @DecentLevi's question makes sense: how _much _better s the Euphoria? What would it make sense to compare it with? Well, _that's_ the real question: e.g. an HD600/650  thread here in Greece was lusting over the Quad PA-One, but only on the understanding that the price difference may not make it a sensible solution. Indeed, if I wanted an $1400 amp I'd expect to pair it with a similarly priced headphone.
  
 If I had to speculate on the Eu_f_oria, I'd say I'd expect it to be a much better bargain for all your wonderful TOTL cans; and perhaps a very nice treat to my modest 600s. Now, would you pair it with an $4000 set of cans? Perhaps, but there must be _some_ _reason_ why the other Summit–fi amps cost that much. In that sense perhaps @DecentLevi has a point: a modest improvement might not cut a budget raise; a significant improvement might put it up against other established amps in the price range; and an omg experience might just as well justify breaking the bank once again to satisfy our OCD for upgrades. But Elise owners need to remember they are a spoiled group: the Elise became known as an exceptional bang for the buck, albeit it seems like the greater part of its returns is by pairing it to exceptional tubes which often cost more than the amp a pair (still waiting to form an opinion of my own here)! It was never a Summit–Fi investment.
  
 As always, @DecentLevi—with his usual over the top enthusiasm—brings up numbers that defy logic. In that aspect he validates my claim, that the Elise has, in fact, spoiled you (us?) all! But I wrote this earlier: I'd very much like to see which other amps do you guys feel the Euphoria compares to in terms of what makes sense. Obviously one should wait until all the new owners accumulate actual listening experience, and hopefully have the opportunity to compare with other amps (can jam?). Until then, new owners will follow our fearless Dean @hypnos1 once again in his ventures (and happily benefit from the pre-sale price!). But if you guys conclude that the Euforia compares to a $6000 amp, then I say our University should definitely get some big time sponsors!


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Bang for bucks depends on who looks at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Now you got me to admit that I'm still lusting after this regardless of my newfound headphone endeavor... Not a Lambo owner, nor could I afford one; but lusting after it nonetheless! The Orpheus plus change for coffee looks like a 100% bargain in comparison!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Obviously I still lust to hear how the new Orpheus sounds, or  a full discrete Questyle setup, or a Blue Hawaii with e.g. a TotalDAC, or @Frederick Rea's Lampizator. But I wouldn't expect the HD600s to match their performance, same as I'd expect a TOTL set (e.g. your Beyers T1, the Focals, or the Senns HD800s) would. In that aspect, @DecentLevi's question makes sense: how _much _better s the Euphoria? What would it make sense to compare it with? Well, _that's_ the real question: e.g. an HD600/650  thread here in Greece was lusting over the Quad PA-One, but only on the understanding that the price difference may not make it a sensible solution. Indeed, if I wanted an $1400 amp I'd expect to pair it with a similarly priced headphone.


 
 Going to a meet or Can Jam where the good systems are on display can be a blessing and a curse. The last Can Con I went to had only about 15 people in a big room. There's ample time and quietness to have a good listen. I heard the Blue Hawaii with Yggy dac and Stax SR-007 and 009 headphones. Another system had Audio-Gd Reference series dac and amp driving a HD800S in balanced mode. Really great tone there but delicate. I don't even want to compare Elise with those amps. It's not a fair comparison. Elise and Euforia must be compared with amps in their price range and will probably perform better than amps that cost twice as much.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I was thinking about that too. How do you determine that amp X is 50% better than amp Y? Surely that's a figure pluck up out of the air. It is all subjective. It's not something you can measure.
> 
> Our goal in Head-Fi is not to buy the most expensive amp, dac and headphone. If you have no temperance, you will soon lose your mind and your pennies. Rather your goal should be to buy what you can reasonably afford and yet sound like a million bucks. Don't lust after $6000 amp and $4000 headphones.


 
  
 Yo UT...as @Oskari, @angpsi and others say, to try and attribute percentage 'improvements' to items, especially in relation to_ price_ is too subjective a matter to have any real relevance/validity lol!
  
 And of course we all know about that painful 'Law of Diminishing Returns', which boils down purely to what we're prepared/able to pay for something "a bit extra/different"...taking into account also our varying degrees of OCD/madness lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Fortunately, I myself do NOT feel any desire whatsoever to enter $2500 + amp terrirory...and my temporary insane lust after $4000 Focals has now (thankfully) totally subsided, with what I am now hearing from my own setup! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


decentlevi said:


> Yeah I was saying that from what I've heard, the Euforia _may potentially_ compete with summit-fi amps costing much more, so if one would _theoretically _gain only a small improvement from a greatly more expensive amp, the ball still lies on Euforia's side for bang-for-buck.


 
  
 Yo DL...impossibly subjective topic of _percentage_ 'improvements' aside (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







), I honestly believe _*I*_ personally would indeed have to spend a _great_ deal more to gain anything I would regard as subjective 'improvement'...to *my *ears...But, of course, not yet having been able to compare with similarly priced amps, I can't be _absolutely _sure...as can't anyone else lol!
  
 The only reason I initially asked Lukasz if he would consider a few upgrades on my behalf was because I felt that our latest 'alternative' tubes _might_ just tweak a bit more performance out of the already excellent Elise...(obviously, components used _must_ be chosen to a price point  - as with _everything__!_). As it turns out, Henryk Feliks evidently foresaw that more major alterations might well deliver the sort of extra performance that would take the amp further up the ladder than just one rung LOL!!..._*and he was right!! *_





...
  
 And so in answer to your earlier question, I feel my yearning for 'something better' has now been _*more*_ than fulfilled by Henryk's efforts in creating the Euforia...and I can only hope with all my heart that @mordy's (and others'...[@MIKELAP's for one, I believe]!) occasional mantras - _*IT NEVER ENDS! ...*_or..._*IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?!!*_- will no longer rear their ugly heads!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I do still live in _hope_, even though I've succumbed _many_ times in the past few years lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

After Euforia and around the middle of the year, I plan to get a new DAC. 
  
 It truly never ends this hobby. Should have just gone on a holiday.


----------



## connieflyer

Personally and let me reiterate personally I think that it is natural for people to want something more something better and find a way to arrive at that. I have been very happy with the Elise I was very happy with the 650 and the 700 and now the 800 would I go to $4,000 for a pair of headphones I might. If that is what drives me at the time and I can afford it why not. As far as percentages go it is something that cannot be Quantified against hearing it can only be Quantified in your own price domain. Childish Reflections on I'd like this girl 20% better than that girl because she was cheaper are stupid. Anything that is subjective cannot be Quantified as this reaches .8 on a list and that reaches point .5 on the same list just because of price and the difference in preceived enjoyment-price. Audio is entirely subjective. It's like asking anybody if they enjoyed a piece of music. No two people are going to feel it exactly the same so trying to put a percentage on a cost is ridiculous. Let's stick to things that can actually make sense. When I read CJ's reviews on the new amp knowing how he writes and how he talks help me determine that it was a genuine excitement for this new one. Never having heard one only having the Elise to judge anything by I had to go on his assessment. It's one that I have learned to trust. We like a lot of the same music so I think we hear similar things. It was enough to push me into the new amp. Now having sold the Elise There's No Going Back. Life is short, there are no do overs,enjoy it while you can.


----------



## pctazhp

A good friend of mine used to own a high end stereo boutique. Every time he got something new in he would call and say I needed to come in and hear it. I would ask him how it was different than the last thing I HAD to hear. He would just say "it's more better". He sure had my number!!! Did I actually say he was a good friend???
  
 I agree that Professor @hypnos1 is worthy of following. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on Euforia. We'll see if my friendship with H1 survives )))))


----------



## connieflyer

If the friendship does not survive it is obvious it is your fault! Go ahead and take the plunge, what is the worst that can happen?  By the way I can be persuaded limit overflights to daytime only, providing you no longer sun bath in the nude!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> If the friendship does not survive it is obvious it is your fault! Go ahead and take the plunge, what is the worst that can happen?  By the way I can be persuaded limit overflights to daytime only, providing you no longer sun bath in the nude!


 

 I'm in contact with FA. Such great people to deal with.
  
 OMG. You poor soul !!!!  You actually saw that????


----------



## connieflyer

I did not actually see it, my sensors, indicated a video virus so quarantined the file.


----------



## High-End-Addict

The Euphoria seems better made and bigger than the Elise ,
 But still only one input , now the box is larger they could have added a couple more inputs thus making it an interesting preamp.


----------



## connieflyer

Not having seen the actual unit, I would not say it was constructed better than the Elise, F-A's attention to detail if quite good, and I don't think it would be a higher standard than their other offerings.  However, I do agree about multiple inputs, it would have made it more versatile. optical, co-ax and USB would have made for more possibilities and made it easier for me to connect to more sources.  Limiting to just line level inputs in this price class does kind of limit it. With the increase in inputs, of course, increases cost, but I think it would have been an easier sell for those contemplating amps in this price category.  But it remains to be seen if the performance increase over the Elise does make it worth the price increase. From what CJ says, it should be, and that is what I had to base my decision on, plus the quality of the Elise gave me confidence that this is a good move.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Not having seen the actual unit, I would not say it was constructed better than the Elise, F-A's attention to detail if quite good, and I don't think it would be a higher standard than their other offerings.  However, I do agree about multiple inputs, it would have made it more versatile. optical, co-ax and USB would have made for more possibilities and made it easier for me to connect to more sources.  Limiting to just line level inputs in this price class does kind of limit it. With the increase in inputs, of course, increases cost, but I think it would have been an easier sell for those contemplating amps in this price category.  But it remains to be seen if the performance increase over the Elise does make it worth the price increase. From what CJ says, it should be, and that is what I had to base my decision on, plus the quality of the Elise gave me confidence that this is a good move.


 

 As I recall, H1 said the only difference was Euforia had slightly taller transformer cage for better ventilation, but I could be wrong. I guess we are still waiting to see picture of production Euforia.
  
 I agree about FA's high standards.


----------



## hypnos1

high-end-addict said:


> The Euphoria seems better made and bigger than the Elise ,
> But still only one input , now the box is larger they could have added a couple more inputs thus making it an interesting preamp.


 
  
 Hi H-E-A...._*externally*_, the quality is very Elise-like - ie. very good! The case size is the same, but with the front plate slightly larger and the finish a tad less matte than the very first Elises (and so not quite such a dust collector lol!). The transformer housing is larger than my prototype Elise, but am not sure if this is in fact also true for the later units. However, I believe F-A have also 'beefed up' the housing somewhat.
  
 However, *internally*, there is indeed quite a jump in quality, along with certain design changes even though the _general_ layout remains similar  :
  
 Elise....
  

  
  
 Euforia
  

  
  
  
 And so, having the same case size, I suppose extra inputs and outputs wasn't really a viable option in F-A's eyes. And at least the one (extremely good!) pre-amp out is enough for most folks lol!...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Not having seen the actual unit, I would not say it was constructed better than the Elise, F-A's attention to detail if quite good, and I don't think it would be a higher standard than their other offerings.  However, I do agree about multiple inputs, it would have made it more versatile. optical, co-ax and USB would have made for more possibilities and made it easier for me to connect to more sources.  Limiting to just line level inputs in this price class does kind of limit it. With the increase in inputs, of course, increases cost, but I think it would have been an easier sell for those contemplating amps in this price category.  But it remains to be seen if the performance increase over the Elise does make it worth the price increase. From what CJ says, it should be, and that is what I had to base my decision on, plus the quality of the Elise gave me confidence that this is a good move.


 
  
 Hi cf...one or two more line inputs (like Espressivo) would indeed have been nice, but again, F-A wanted to retain the same case as Elise in order to keep the price to a competetive level 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  The  Zana Deux S, for example, does indeed have 3 line inputs and 2 pre-amp outs, but is $2400 +...the Cavalli Liquid Glass just 2 line ins and 2 out, but is $3500!! So I suppose Euforia's price still remains pretty competetive on paper...it just remains to be seen how close it can come in the _sound_ stakes lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## connieflyer

Got it


----------



## pctazhp

From the internal views it seems we are talking about two different amps. Oh, I guess we are


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> optical, co-ax and USB would have made for more possibilities and made it easier for me to connect to more sources.




That would have made it a DAC+amp, quite a different animal.


----------



## connieflyer

Connection of coax USB Optical parts for imports does not make it a dac


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Connection of coax USB Optical parts for imports does not make it a dac


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Connection of coax USB Optical parts for imports does not make it a dac


 
 That's true, but to get sound from the amp it would have to convert the digital signal from those digital inputs to an analogue signal, as I understand it.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> That's true, but to get sound from the amp it would have to convert the digital signal from those digital inputs to an analogue signal, as I understand it.




Which would make it a DAC... :blink:


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Which would make it a DAC...


 
 Exactly.


----------



## UntilThen

97 - me
 98 - ?
 99 - @connieflyer
 100 - @mordy
 101 - @aqsw 
  
 Who's 98? Who else ordered? Looking forward to everyone's impression of this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H-E-A...._*externally*_, the quality is very Elise-like - ie. very good! The case size is the same, but with the front plate slightly larger and the finish a tad less matte than the very first Elises (and so not quite such a dust collector lol!). The transformer housing is larger than my prototype Elise, but am not sure if this is in fact also true for the later units. However, I believe F-A have also 'beefed up' the housing somewhat.
> 
> However, *internally*, there is indeed quite a jump in quality, along with certain design changes even though the _general_ layout remains similar  :
> 
> And so, having the same case size, I suppose extra inputs and outputs wasn't really a viable option in F-A's eyes. And at least the one (extremely good!) pre-amp out is enough for most folks lol!...


 
  
 I hope externally I will be able to tell them apart visually because they are going to sit on my desk side by side. Twins !


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> From the internal views it seems we are talking about two different amps. Oh, I guess we are


 
  
 That's precisely what I thought when I opened her up...WOW!...is this an 'Elise' lol?!..._*major*_ reworking indeed. And which also helps to explain the jump in price - requires a good bit more _*labour*_ cost, over and above those costly Teflon sockets/Mundorfs/Nichicons/Dales/Caddocks/pure silver wires etc.!!!
  
 It truly is a shame in many ways that they didn't already have a different case & chassis that could have been modified so as to at least _look_ different to Elise from the outside as well as inside lol!...but they evidently didn't, and so retained the Elise case in order to keep the increased cost to a minimum...and I for one don't really mind at all - I _*like*_ the look as it is!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. And thanks guys - all of you - for placing your trust in me and plunging into the dark...I don't think it will be _mis_-placed trust...!


----------



## connieflyer

And here I thought I was your twin I feel so bad now. I suppose I'd better go have some snack food to make me feel better


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I hope externally I will be able to tell them apart visually because they are going to sit on my desk side by side. Twins !


 
  
 Well, UT...Lukasz did say they were looking into adding some slight 'cosmetic' indicators as to its status...but knowing how they like to 'understate' things, you might just need a magnifying glass lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ps. You'll keep the *two*, mon ami?...that's just plain _*greedy!!!*_











...but _*double*_ CHEERS!!...


----------



## DecentLevi

@hypnos1 Sorry to repeat myself, but do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game?
  
 Also if you had to compare the Euforia to the Elise, how much better would it be percentage wise... or if not by percentage could you at least use a superlative adjective, such as a lot better, much better, vastly better, mesmerisingly better, etc.? And does it seem to take you "deeper into the scene" of the recording?


----------



## connieflyer

I believe CJ has already decried that he loves the new amp, when you are in love, you don't go looking for something "better".  Here we go with percentages again.  What don't you understand about hearing? The perception is not going to be a percentage of anything. you can say one is better than the other or worse than the other, by how much some, a little, a lot, but you can not say, oh it is 27.5% better than the other.  It means nothing to someone that has not heard both together.  If you think the Elise is not up to your standards, buy the new amp, or a different one, or buy a better headphone. But what ever you do, stop with the percentage of differences.  Everyone's hearing is different. He may find it much better and I may find it only a little better.


----------



## JazzVinyl

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1
> Sorry to repeat myself, but do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game?
> 
> Also if you had to compare the Euforia to the Elise, how much better would it be percentage wise... or if not by percentage could you at least use a superlative adjective, such as a lot better, much better, vastly better, mesmerisingly better, etc.?




No comparison to the two is legitimate (in my view) unless the comparison is preformed in a blind fashion.

I guarantee you that knowledge of which amp your listening to, will horribly prejudice your opinion of what you think you hear.

Hopefully someone who can afford both amps, rigged with an identical tube compliment of choice also has a knowledgable friend avail to conduct a truly blind test.

My attendance to a mini head-fi meet where blind tests were conducted really opened my eyes (pun intended) as to how good top notch SS gear performs, compared to top notch tube amps. 

If the Elise. vs Euforia comparison is not conducted totally blind....I would kindly dismiss any expressed opinions. 

Cheers!!!,


----------



## HOWIE13

jazzvinyl said:


> No comparison to the two is legitimate (in my view) unless the comparison is preformed in a blind fashion.
> 
> I guarantee you that knowledge of which amp your listening to, will horribly prejudice your opinion of what you think you hear.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm hoping UT may be able to perform such a test in due course as he says he will have both amps side by side. In fact, I could have a nice holiday helping him out.


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 Sorry to repeat myself, but do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game?
> 
> Also if you had to compare the Euforia to the Elise, how much better would it be percentage wise... or if not by percentage could you at least use a superlative adjective, such as a lot better, much better, vastly better, mesmerisingly better, etc.? And does it seem to take you "deeper into the scene" of the recording?


 
  
 Hey DL...have covered these things already a short while back...especially my views on the futility of 'percentage  improvements' lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 And as I (and others) have also mentioned a while ago, this thread will be _*only*_ for _measured; realistic; carefully considered and constructed _statements...excessively OTT postings have already alienated a good few folks over at the Elise threads, and I have no desire whatsoever to see that replicated here, I'm afraid. We shall (hopefully) be in the sights of those who value much more highly the kind of input I hope to see here.
  
 Be that as it may, I am still in the process of digesting what this amp is delivering in my own system...having already, I think, given a reasonable overview of Euforia's talents. When I have given this the time it deserves - and _*needs!*_ - so as to be relevant, accurate and _*believable*_, I shall indeed update further on my findings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...these things *can*not and *should*not be hurried lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

I just placed my Euforia order for delivery in 3 months when I get to Europe. I feel so morally clean, as I can now legitimately participate on this thread. But oh my!!! I just spent more money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please no more posting here for next 3 months. I don't want to feel jealous.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I'm hoping UT may be able to perform such a test in due course as he says he will have both amps side by side. In fact, I could have a nice holiday helping him out.


 
 I was going to use Elise to power my T1's left channel and Euforia the right but since you insist on a blind audition, I'll accept you as my assistant, I hope you are gorgeous looking.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I just placed my Euforia order for delivery in 3 months when I get to Europe. I feel so morally clean, as I can now legitimately participate on this thread. But oh my!!! I just spent more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're asking the impossible not to post here for the next 3 months. We might have to take to twitter.
  
 Btw great news on your order.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I was going to use Elise to power my T1's left channel and Euforia the right but since you insist on a blind audition, I'll accept you as my assistant, I hope you are gorgeous looking.


 
 Great idea to monoblock.
 Pity the two amps sound so different. Perhaps with judicious tube rolling you can get them to sound the same. That would be an interesting challenge.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I would love to assist but I'm afraid I wouldn't get past the preliminary knockout stages if looks are important HAHAHA


----------



## connieflyer

What difference does it make if Howie is gorgeous or not, you will be "blind"!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You're asking the impossible not to post here for the next 3 months. We might have to take to twitter.
> 
> Btw great news on your order.


 

 Ha)))) Twitter. A true bastion of reasoned discussion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And thanks )))


----------



## connieflyer

Like this is?  Congrats on the order.  Will try not to tease, and if fact no more buzzing the house, at least for awhile!


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hey DL...have covered these things already a short while back...especially my views on the futility of 'percentage  improvements' lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1. You have covered Euforia better than I think anyone else could. I have already learned a lot from you about Euforia, and felt total comfort in placing my order. Thanks so much for your efforts. You have set a wonderful example as a foundation for the future of this thread.
  
 And, BTW, I simply don't understand the obsession with trying to compare both Elise and Euforia to other amps. If someone has a lot of experience with one of the FA amps and another particular amp, then maybe his or her comments might be helpful. But it would only be by chance that the particular non-FA amp would be familiar to even a few of us. And I hardly think listening to any amp for a brief time under unfamiliar conditions at a meet is the kind of information in which I would want to place much stock in making a purchase decision.


----------



## connieflyer

*Competition*

  
 Well said, agree totally, CJ's review, although he says it is limited was enough to get me on board with a new amp.  After all this is not a *Competition* this is supposed to be a pleasant listening experience


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 Sorry to repeat myself, but do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game?
> 
> Also if you had to compare the Euforia to the Elise, how much better would it be percentage wise... or if not by percentage could you at least use a superlative adjective, such as a lot better, much better, vastly better, mesmerisingly better, etc.? And does it seem to take you "deeper into the scene" of the recording?


 
 HE JUST GOT HIS EUFORIA AND IS THE ONLY CONSUMER IN THE WORLD TO EVEN HAVE ONE. How could he possibly be thinking of finding something "better"????
  
 "Superlative adjectives" are of no help whatsoever, because they are purely subjective for each person.
  
 And pray tell. What does "deeper into the scene" possibly mean????


----------



## UntilThen

When I give my impressions I'll be using such phrases

Mountain top experience
Heavens open and angels descending
The earth move beneath my feet
She sings like a shilah

Etc etc etc


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1. You have covered Euforia better than I think anyone else could. I have already learned a lot from you about Euforia, and felt total comfort in placing my order. Thanks so much for your efforts. You have set a wonderful example as a foundation for the future of this thread.
> 
> And, BTW, I simply don't understand the obsession with trying to compare both Elise and Euforia to other amps. If someone has a lot of experience with one of the FA amps and another particular amp, then maybe his or her comments might be helpful. But it would only be by chance that the particular non-FA amp would be familiar to even a few of us. And I hardly think listening to any amp for a brief time under unfamiliar conditions at a meet is the kind of information in which I would want to place much stock in making a purchase decision.


 
  
 Thanks for your kind words of encouragement, pct...with each day that passes I become to some extent more disenchanted with "impressions"; "reviews"; "comparisons" etc. etc. - (the 'left brain' objective/critical/analytical/cynical side of me, at least lol!). They can be so easily dissected it _*hurts!!*_
  
 But then I realise that so many of our hobbies/pastimes/interests are _strewn_ with such ephemeral, flawed thoughts/emotions/'insights', and which are an integral part of the Human Condition...more 'right brain', _creative_ traits, as some would say. And the best we can ever hope for is to try and achieve _some_ kind of balance between the two...but much easier said than done alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This I constantly _try_ to do...and more so now in this particular hobby of ours than I may have done even just a year ago. But I do realise and acknowledge that I still have so much to learn, and try to keep an open mind to my own - and others' - weaknesses. The key here, I believe, is that we do indeed _*learn*_ from those who will bring their own experience and wisdom to 'light our way'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I hear you re. trying to 'compare' our amps to others...very tricky subject! And I too would never place too much emphasis on brief encounters at 'meets'...but I think you can at least get a _taste_ of something that might just help indicate _potential _candidates for further (and much better!) investigation..._with any luck!!!_





...(for example, my C3g/GEC CV2523-clad Elise didn't sound, to me at least, anywhere near as good at my last meet here in the UK as at home lol!...but still impressed others enough to look further - @tjw321, for example).
  
 And so I shall approach our next local meet here in April with as open a mind as possible regarding equipment...but mostly for the enjoyment of meeting up with fellow 'enthusiasts' - _especially_ those from right here LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> When I give my impressions I'll be using such phrases
> 
> Mountain top experience
> Heavens open and angels descending
> ...


 
 I had to google "shilah"...


----------



## DecentLevi

decentlevi said:


> @hypnos1 Sorry to repeat myself, but do you ever have any desire whatsoever for a better sounding amp.. or any inkling that there may be something better out there, or is this seeming to be your end game?
> 
> Also if you had to compare the Euforia to the Elise, how much better would it be percentage wise... or if not by percentage could you at least use a superlative adjective, such as a lot better, much better, vastly better, mesmerisingly better, etc.? And does it seem to take you "deeper into the scene" of the recording?


 
  
 Quote:


pctazhp said:


> HE JUST GOT HIS EUFORIA AND IS THE ONLY CONSUMER IN THE WORLD TO EVEN HAVE ONE. How could he possibly be thinking of finding something "better"????
> 
> "Superlative adjectives" are of no help whatsoever, because they are purely subjective for each person.
> 
> And pray tell. What does "deeper into the scene" possibly mean????


 
 Of course I didn't expect him to actually want to replace his new marvel of an amp with anything. I was just asking a few brief questions to try to justify the purchase, and what I meant by the above was more akin to... "is the Euforia completely and totally satisfying your experience, or is there any kind of subconscious desire that there could be better sound attainable?" And from my second paragraph above, I believe H1 has already answered in other posts that the Euforia is essentially at least more preferable to the Elise... but to an extent that should be judged by an individual.
  
 "Deeper into the scene" refers to an auditory experience that is more immersive, more realistic and greater presence, etc. so that you will get a deeper sense of "actually being there".
  
 And speaking of H1, yes sorry I had just noticed you had answered my question above twice, and done a great job.


----------



## DecentLevi

decentlevi said:


> Yeah I was saying that from what I've heard, the Euforia _may potentially_ compete with summit-fi amps costing much more, so if one would _theoretically _gain only a small improvement from a greatly more expensive amp, the ball still lies on Euforia's side for bang-for-buck.


 
  


angpsi said:


> ...
> 
> If I had to speculate on the Eu_f_oria, I'd say I'd expect it to be a much better bargain for all your wonderful TOTL cans; and perhaps a very nice treat to my modest 600s. Now, would you pair it with an $4000 set of cans? Perhaps, but there must be _some_ _reason_ why the other Summit–fi amps cost that much. In that sense perhaps @DecentLevi has a point: a modest improvement might not cut a budget raise; a significant improvement might put it up against other established amps in the price range; and an omg experience might just as well justify breaking the bank once again to satisfy our OCD for upgrades. But Elise owners need to remember they are a spoiled group: the Elise became known as an exceptional bang for the buck, albeit it seems like the greater part of its returns is by pairing it to exceptional tubes which often cost more than the amp a pair (still waiting to form an opinion of my own here)! It was never a Summit–Fi investment.
> 
> As always, @DecentLevi—with his usual over the top enthusiasm—brings up numbers that defy logic. In that aspect he validates my claim, that the Elise has, in fact, spoiled you (us?) all! But I wrote this earlier: I'd very much like to see which other amps do you guys feel the Euphoria compares to in terms of what makes sense. Obviously one should wait until all the new owners accumulate actual listening experience, and hopefully have the opportunity to compare with other amps (can jam?). Until then, new owners will follow our fearless Dean @hypnos1 once again in his ventures (and happily benefit from the pre-sale price!). But if you guys conclude that the Euforia compares to a $6000 amp, then I say our University should definitely get some big time sponsors!


 
 Good points. And I'd say there becomes a tipping point in regards to price / performance ratio, so spending far too much for just a modest improvement may tip the scale against your favor... but granted all this talk of comparisons of the Euforia to other pricier summit-fi amps is all speculative, as has never been done yet. I for one however wouldn't see the its' comparison against other pricier amps to be too unfair, as sometimes price / size 'labels' can become blurred in the face of sonic performance, which is really what's important. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Euforia _can _compete with pricier tube amps as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

What does an audiophile say when someone is screaming? ​ _  Aah, those levels are clipping!_​  ​ What does an audiophile say when eating great quality 'dollar store' pizza? ​ _ Wow that pushes way above its' price point!_​  
  
 Anyway I've got a few interesting points to share that were passed along from an inquiry this week from Feliks Audio.. just FYI in case it wasn't known yet:
  

The presale ends on January 31st which will not be extended
The Euforia will be shipped only with tubes; no option without
The power output is similar to the Elise, "but the sound has number of extra qualities to it"
RE the sonic performance of Elise compared to Euforia:
     "we havent yet confirmed face to face, but we believe it's now playing in 1 or 2 higher league than Elise"
  
For me, the 3rd point brings up an interesting point - I wonder if perhaps the power output may measure slightly more than the Elise; likewize I'm curious if the transformer is any different or if it really is just its' case being larger.
  
But especially the 4th point peaks my interest - can only imagine what 1-2 leagues higher than the Elise may sound like!


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi  I want to apologize if I was inappropriate in my comments to you. You and I just have different approaches to our hobby. As I recently said in another place, Live and Let Live)))) However, I do hope all of us will honor H1's guidelines for appropriate moderation in the language we employ on this thread.
  
 With respect to Sumit-Fi amps, I may never hear one unless I'm able to attend London CanJam in July. But it doesn't matter to me. Until I finally gave it up in 2009 I was involved in high end audio since the 60s and was in constant pursuit of the latest and greatest. In retrospect, I'm personally convinced that high price does not necessarily mean a better sounding amp. As I have said before, the law of physics apply even to our hobby. It's a matter of reproducing the waveform reaching out ears as accurately as possible in comparison to the waveform that hit the recording mic. With the appropriate equipment (which almost no home enthusiast has) that can be measured very accurately. There is no voodoo or magic fairy dust involved. There is no hitherto undiscovered principle of electromagnetic theory waiting to be discovered. And above a certain price point (I don't know what that is) I'm not convinced improvement is possible. But this is just my own personal view.
  
 In the Elise I found something very special at a reasonable price. It brought me a level of enjoyment with headphones I had not experienced before. Because of my faith in FA Audio and H1's guidance, I feel Euforia is a good move for me. I honestly believe it will be my endgame. And with my pending move to Europe I'm guessing I will have a lot of new experiences that may relegate headphone based musical enjoyment to a slightly lesser priority than it has been for the past year and a half. But that's months away. For now I say, "Long Live Elise"


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I just placed my Euforia order for delivery in 3 months when I get to Europe. I feel so morally clean, as I can now legitimately participate on this thread. But oh my!!! I just spent more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 GREAT NEWS pct...but 3 months? - I feel your pain already..._*courage, mon ami!!*_ We are all here to support you in your trials lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





decentlevi said:


> What does an audiophile say when someone is screaming? ​ _  Aah, those levels are clipping!_​  ​ What does an audiophile say when eating great quality 'dollar store' pizza? ​ _ Wow that pushes way above its' price point!_​
> 
> Anyway I've got a few interesting points to share that were passed along from an inquiry this week from Feliks Audio.. just FYI in case it wasn't known yet:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for passing on and confirming F-A's info, DL.
  
 It sure would be interesting indeed for someone to measure the _actual_ output figure...but as I mentioned before, I've a feeling that Lukasz's "stronger/cleaner" power output is more down to the same principle that's at work with Yamamoto's highly respected, but *apparently*_ under_-powered amps (wattage wise) - ie. the _circuitry_ lol!...and delivering therefore what _*appears*_ to be increased 'power'. I myself have had no confirmation of a different transformer...only that the housing was enlarged and apparently made even more robust.
  
 Glad you found my previous impressions of Euforia...and of course there's more cumulative info. re. my findings over on the Elise "Impressions" thread.
  
 As for your comments re "deeper into the scene", I do indeed feel this amp delivers a more 'immersive' experience...what I termed more 'intimate', without being _too_ forward/in your face. I don't really like the term "presence" - far too nebulous IMHO! - but somehow music _can_, depending on how well recorded, sound more 'natural' with even better cohesion and balance..._effortless_, if you will. Another difficult one is the 'emotional' quality of performance...perhaps the _most_ difficult one of all, as we all vary so widely in just how we experience this aspect of our being. All I can say is that already, a good few of my favourite tracks have stirred in me more _feeling _than ever before...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Which brings me to an observation that can sometimes be a double-edged sword - Euforia's increased detail resolution/clarity/dynamics show up poorly recorded/engineered tracks more so even than Elise lol!.. IMO _any_ amp that 'flatters' a poor recording _must_ (by definition) be doing something at the expense of _true_ and _accurate_ reproduction. But feed Euforia a really good signal - and it needn't always have to be hi-res! - and it will do real (deserved) justice to a good sound engineer. Of course, much also depends on source/DAC (or TT!)/cables/mains PS quality/tubes etc. etc., but my own results are, naturally, based upon everything remaining the same except the _amp_.
  
 Such differences - in my book - counter JazzVinyl's assertion that you can _only_ determine these by _double-blind_ experiment. And especially, I believe an amp's ability to have you _feeling_ differently can often be a better indication than other, more (perhaps!) 'audiophile' aspects.
  
 And yes, I know full well we can indeed be fooled by such emotional feelings in the Honeymoon stage with new equipment, but I now believe I'm past that and the _real_ marriage is setting in...(and still no warts lol!..._*yet!!!*_








...despite the fact my cynical side continues to try and find fault/weakness! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## Spork67

While I don't doubt your opinions for a moment H1, the scientist in me would like some empirical confirmation via some double blind, (or at least blind) testing of Elise v Euforia.
 I hope UT has an understanding, patient and co-operative spouse / partner, as he will be one of the first people to own both amps concurrently...
 Ideally, this testing would involve the same tubes being used in each amp. Not just the same brand, but swapping over the actual tubes, to remove that variable.


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> @DecentLevi  I want to apologize if I was inappropriate in my comments to you. You and I just have different approaches to our hobby. As I recently said in another place, Live and Let Live)))) However, I do hope all of us will honor H1's guidelines for appropriate moderation in the language we employ on this thread.
> 
> With respect to Sumit-Fi amps, I may never hear one unless I'm able to attend London CanJam in July. But it doesn't matter to me. Until I finally gave it up in 2009 I was involved in high end audio since the 60s and was in constant pursuit of the latest and greatest. In retrospect, I'm personally convinced that high price does not necessarily mean a better sounding amp. As I have said before, the law of physics apply even to our hobby. It's a matter of reproducing the waveform reaching out ears as accurately as possible in comparison to the waveform that hit the recording mic. With the appropriate equipment (which almost no home enthusiast has) that can be measured very accurately. There is no voodoo or magic fairy dust involved. There is no hitherto undiscovered principle of electromagnetic theory waiting to be discovered. And above a certain price point (I don't know what that is) I'm not convinced improvement is possible. But this is just my own personal view.
> 
> In the Elise I found something very special at a reasonable price. It brought me a level of enjoyment with headphones I had not experienced before. Because of my faith in FA Audio and H1's guidance, I feel Euforia is a good move for me. I honestly believe it will be my endgame. And with my pending move to Europe I'm guessing I will have a lot of new experiences that may relegate headphone based musical enjoyment to a slightly lesser priority than it has been for the past year and a half. But that's months away. For now I say, "Long Live Elise"


 
 Couldn't have said it better myself @pctazhp, albeit I _have_ heard systems in the past that are transcendental (in @DecentLevi's terminology)—e.g. the Lamm/Verity system I posted before.
  
 As I've written in the past, I've no experience with headphones therefore I was flying blind when I ended up choosing my setup. Reading and cross referencing between opinions about a variety of setups as much as one possibly can, I ended up with the HD600/Elise. I explained my rationale earlier. Nevertheless, when I was researching on the subject it also struck me that I found absolutely no claims that would whole–heartily maintain that the "x" setup ticks _every_ single box that one would hope for in audio reproduction. Hence it felt that choosing a setup would greatly be a matter of personal preference rather than X% better.
  
 On these premises, A–to–B comparisons make sense as long as you compare with the full understanding of the subjective parameters involved. For me it was comparing with my Benchmark DAC1 that let me gain insight about the Elise's character. Different beasts, I know, but it let me know whether I actually liked the Elise as much as the cash I had to churn out for it. I did. Now, I'm waiting for the new tubes. Hopefully I'll be able to enjoy what all of you knowledgeable people rave about, namely how well the amp scales with different tubes.
  
 As for @DecentLevi, I'm convinced that the poor lad _just wants someone to tip him over_ to the Eu_fo_ria's bandwagon. To this I say: man, you've got all the fancy tubes and all the fancy headphones—just get on with it! I'm only wary about the others having to cope with your quirky ravings about how the new Euforia with the X tube combination stand for a:


untilthen said:


> (...)
> Mountain top experience
> Heavens open and angels descending
> The earth move beneath my feet
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

spork67 said:


> While I don't doubt your opinions for a moment H1, the scientist in me would like some empirical confirmation via some double blind, (or at least blind) testing of Elise v Euforia.
> I hope UT has an understanding, patient and co-operative spouse / partner, as he will be one of the first people to own both amps concurrently...
> Ideally, this testing would involve the same tubes being used in each amp. Not just the same brand, but swapping over the actual tubes, to remove that variable.


 
  
 I hear you S67...but certainly much easier said than done in our circumstances lol! I can't say I've* ever* come across *any *amp reviews that have been conducted in this way...especially under _*strict*_ double-blind conditions. And, of course, the mere act alone of having to wait for the tubes to cool down properly, then warm up fully again will incur a _long_ time period, which will have our ears not in _precisely _the same state lol...etc. etc. etc....TRICKY!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## connieflyer

spork67 said:


> While I don't doubt your opinions for a moment H1, the scientist in me would like some empirical confirmation via some double blind, (or at least blind) testing of Elise v Euforia.
> I hope UT has an understanding, patient and co-operative spouse / partner, as he will be one of the first people to own both amps concurrently...
> Ideally, this testing would involve the same tubes being used in each amp. Not just the same brand, but swapping over the actual tubes, to remove that variable.


 one of the biggest concerns I would have with blind testing or double triple or quadruple blind testing the two amps together you want the exact same headphones the exact same settings got to be measured by an instrument not by ear and you also want the exact same Tubes from one amp to the other so you have to wait 5 minutes until the tubes cool put them back in the other amp and then allowed to warm up and in the meantime your perception of hearing has gone you have to assume I hear this or that memory for hearing is fleeting the only way to accurately compare one to the other would be with instrumentation and there again you're using tubes that have to be warmed up stable and then cool down reinserted warmed back up until they're stable and then conduct the test not saying it can't be done but for an individual to do it without proper instrumentation it's still just a guess.


----------



## JazzVinyl

We found one of the most important factors is proper distraction of the listener while the rigs were swapped. Someone to talk to the listener and start interviewing his impressions while another prepared the next amp (or not).

If Listener could catch audio cues from behind him as to which rig was coming, it vastly affected his perception of the upcoming amp.

So ideally you need three people, a listener a distract-or and someone 'good with the gear' that can quickly assimilate the next rig (or not, and pretend to).

I think same tubes all around is a step too far, 4 powers and 4 drivers that measure close to one another should be fine.

In the end, you will be surprised at "what you thought you knew" after a proper blind test....

Luck and Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> We found one of the most important factors is proper distraction of the listener while the rigs were swapped. Someone to talk to the listener and start interviewing his impressions while another prepared the next amp (or not).
> 
> If Listener could catch audio cues from behind him as to which rig was coming, it vastly affected his perception of the upcoming amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo JV..._*luck*_ being the operative word here lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...which presumably is why I have yet to read of *any* such reliable experiments with regard to the sorts of amps in question here. And can't see much hope of this being a _practical_ exercise for us either, I'm afraid!  In the *real *world, we do indeed have to rely on much less-than-perfect assessments of our experiences...and not just with regard to _music_ LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...for better or worse...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Yo JV..._*luck*_ being the operative word here lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have never seen any either, and don't expect to. Such reported true DBTs in audio-land are rare, although millions of words have been spilled over the decades by us audiophiles arguing about DBTs - usually in full food-fight mode. There just aren't the trained professionals, resources or motivation to conduct such tests in the audio realm in a truly scientific manner. And to be truly "scientific" they would have to be repeatable and peer-reviewed. Anyone know where I can find copies of the Journal of Applied Audiophile Science????
  
 But if anyone wants to set up something, I'll volunteer as the Distracter - only role for which I'd be qualified. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS. I am very aware of the shortfalls of sighted comparisons, expectation bias and all that. And I know any kind of "blind" test is perhaps better than un-sighted comparisons. But remember there are Head-Fi rules about where that is to be discussed, as arguments over "blind" test can easily derail and destroy a thread.
  
 PSS. I can hardly wait to see @connieflyer's next "blind" joke


----------



## mordy

Just pulled the trigger on the new Eforia - inv#100 and scheduled for March 8, 2017.
  
 Regarding comparisons, double blind tests etc etc.:
  
 I have a completely different approach. One of my measurements connects to the sub conscious - i. e. what I call the toe tapping index. If I play a familiar recording and find myself involuntary tapping my toes with varying intensity (on a scale from 1 - 5, where 5 is the highest), this indicates how much the presentation engages me in the music.
  
 On a more serious note I have discovered (and I really was very skeptical about my own ability in the beginning) that my personal judgment of how something sounds, often correlates well with what some other people on this forum hear.  Because of this I am not afraid to recommend certain tubes/combinations, with an emphasis on lesser known and less expensive alternatives.
  
 In conclusion, since everybody has different tastes and different equipment, IMHO it is possible to recommend a group of tubes/combinations that are certain to please most people.
 Such recommendations are based on listening for an extended time, and not on initial impressions. And to be respectful of others - after all, people are different - never to make fun of somebody who claims that his Photon 6N7S with RCA 6AS7G is the best he has ever heard.
  
 Re enthusiasm - wish I had more of it! It is a special feeling to put in a new set of tubes and hear great sound - better than you heard before. Then you have to take your time, and see if your initial impressions stand the test of time. Sometimes flaws in the sound reproduction take a while to identify and comprehend; there might be this little something that grates your nerves in the long run, which you did not hear initially.
  
 So I don't feel a need for double blind studies - it's more than good enough to rely on the findings of people on this thread that have a lot of experience listening and whose tastes I have gotten to know.


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy. I love the toe tapping test )))  I first heard about it way back when Linn was still fighting digital and attempting to perpetuate vinyl. Works great for me


----------



## mordy

And here I thought I invented it LOL! Well, the Scots were first......


----------



## pctazhp

I just need to say this one more time. The F-A people not only make very special amps, but they are wonderful to deal with. I hope that someday I will have the pleasure of meeting Lukasz and/or his father.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I just need to say this one more time. The F-A people not only make very special amps, but they are wonderful to deal with. I hope that someday I will have the pleasure of meeting Lukasz and/or his father.


 
  
 Well, my dear pct...if you do indeed manage to get to London CanJam in July, not only will you be seeing my ugly face, but also Lukasz and some of his team (don't know exactly who else yet, alas)...they will be exhibiting there...(sorry if I'm repeating what you already know lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 And I agree with everything you say about Lukasz and the rest of his family...and whoever else is part of the team lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I still can't believe how fortunate I was in first approaching them those years back...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...a wonderful "family firm"...


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz speaking on behalf of Feliks Audio says (quoting @DecentLevi correspondence with him)
  

RE the sonic performance of Elise compared to Euforia:
     "we havent yet confirmed face to face, but we believe it's now playing in 1 or 2 higher league than Elise"
  
I suppose you'll tell him to do a blind test or it's just POO.


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp just for your information, we did not have suction trucks, (that sucked)  that was part of the plane captains job.  Although we did help, had to remove the whole assembly,and carry it out. It was lovingly referred to as the "honey pot" Ours were similar to the photo but larger box like aluminum structure. More info than you need?
  
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49104-us-bomber-honey-pot/


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys...thanks for your kind support - much appreciated.
  
 Time for me to actually post a video...guess what it is?....
  

  
 Goodnight to you all...


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Same here.




And the same here.

The reason we never discuss double-blind is that the discussion will never ever lead to anything useful.

Religion and politics are exactly the same.


----------



## Seamaster

untilthen said:


> I was going to use Elise to power my T1's left channel and Euforia the right but since you insist on a blind audition, I'll accept you as my assistant, I hope you are gorgeous looking.


 

 That mean you are running mono in each amp that will fry the transformers on both amps, ha.


----------



## mordy

Hi S,
  
 Sometimes my headphones conk out on one channel - are you saying that it is harmful for the amp if I only can hear say the right channel? This does not mean mono to me, only that I hear one half of the sound picture.


----------



## Oskari

seamaster said:


> That mean you are running mono in each amp that will fry the transformers on both amps, ha.




Well, I have no idea what you're on about. I suggest you get off the booze.


----------



## Seamaster

oskari said:


> Well, I have no idea what you're on about. I suggest you get off the booze.


 

 Just for an example: (Depends on how the amp is designed, but there is always a chance)
  

  
 I shorted my McIntosh MA6900 accidentally by using metal (Cardas) RCA shielding plugs on one set of the signal output, after about 30min play very loud classical music, the power guard protection bar (acted like a fuse) melted on the autoformers! Now, I am using plastic RCA shielding plugs


----------



## Seamaster

mordy said:


> Hi S,
> 
> Sometimes my headphones conk out on one channel - are you saying that it is harmful for the amp if I only can hear say the right channel? This does not mean mono to me, only that I hear one half of the sound picture.


 

 Try to leave like that over night, see what happens, the damage does not happen right away or MAYBE at low volume level. When I fried my MA6900, the amp was working very hard at very loud level.
  
 I am mainly talking about plugging mono into stereo output, BTW.


----------



## DecentLevi

angpsi said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself @pctazhp, albeit I _have_ heard systems in the past that are transcendental (in @DecentLevi's terminology)—e.g. the Lamm/Verity system I posted before.
> 
> ...
> As for @DecentLevi, I'm convinced that the poor lad _just wants someone to tip him over_ to the Eu_fo_ria's bandwagon. To this I say: man, you've got all the fancy tubes and all the fancy headphones—just get on with it! I'm only wary about the others having to cope with your quirky ravings about how the new Euforia with the X tube combination stand for a:


 
 Yup, you read me well Angpsi - I was just about ready to spring for the Euforia and just wanted that little bit of extra coercion, and looks like I've got just that... I feel confident this won't be one of those "careful what you ask for" things, because I've now secured my "place in Euforia", LOL. I have invoice 105.
  


untilthen said:


> Lukasz speaking on behalf of Feliks Audio says (quoting @DecentLevi correspondence with him)
> 
> 
> RE the sonic performance of Elise compared to Euforia:
> ...


 
 Sounds like a joke, I've asked them no such thing
  
 Trying to piece together the tally now..
  
 97 - UT
 98 - ?
 99 - @connieflyer
 100 - @mordy
 101 - @aqsw 
 102-104 - ?
 105 - DecentLevi
  
  
 I've got a feeling this thread's sure to light up like wildfire in a few months when everyone receives their Euforia. And I hope not only former Elise owners will take the plunge on this amp...


----------



## DecentLevi

E*UFO*RIA ​ shall make touchdown on earth...​


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Yup, you read me well Angpsi - I was just about ready to spring for the Euforia and just wanted that little bit of extra coercion, and looks like I've got just that... I feel confident this won't be one of those "careful what you ask for" things, because I've now secured my "place in Euforia", LOL. I have invoice 105.
> 
> Sounds like a joke, I've asked them no such thing
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations DL on making the same highly irresponsible well-informed decision as the rest of us poo-poo birds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yesterday I learned how to cut and paste on my computer, so I want to show off my new skill by updating your list:
  
 97 - UT
 98 - ?
 99 - @connieflyer
 100 - @mordy
 101 - @aqsw 
 102 - ?
 103 - pctazhp (*)
 104 - ?
 105 - DecentLevi
  
 * Scheduled for April 30 delivery


----------



## UntilThen

seamaster said:


> That mean you are running mono in each amp that will fry the transformers on both amps, ha.


 
 I was joking. I can understand if my jokes are a bit deep at times. Deeper in the sense.


----------



## Seamaster

untilthen said:


> I was joking. I can understand if my jokes are a bit deep at times. Deeper in the sense.


 

 You are the first Australian made jokes so serious, haha.


----------



## angpsi

decentlevi said:


> E*UFO*RIA​shall make touchdown on earth...​
> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]


 Seriously man?? And now everyone knows who to blame for pushing you to take the leap! (Honestly, I'm pretty sure the Elise thread will die with so many of you lovely people jumping ship. Fortunately it looks like we can lurk around here to get our entertainment!)


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Congratulations DL on making the same highly irresponsible well-informed decision as the rest of us poo-poo birds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm wondering if the invoice numbers are shared between Elise and Euforia.
  
 That means 98, 102 and 104 could be Elise buyers.
  
 Also  Lukasz told me there were already some Euforia orders before me.


----------



## Spork67

I apologise for buying into the DBT debate, and will refrain from doing so again.
 I did find the POO acronym mildly amusing, (I like immature acronyms) but also felt it was unfairly directed at H1.
  
 I think we need MORE acronyms in this thread:
  
 Can't Remember Any Problems - CRAP
 Sure Can Attest (to) That - SCAT
 Totally Underrated Beautiful Electronics - TUBE
 Eternally Lovely, In Service Everywhere - ELISE (looking to the future)
 Everything U Fort Of Rolled Into Amp -  EUFORIA
  
 Sorry - tired after a double shift yesterday, have tomorrow off, started drinking already...


----------



## DavidA

spork67 said:


> I apologise for buying into the DBT debate, and will refrain from doing so again.
> I did find the POO acronym mildly amusing, (I like immature acronyms) but also felt it was unfairly directed at H1.
> 
> I think we need MORE acronyms in this thread:
> ...


 
 I'm going to catch up soon.....waiting for GF to get out of the shower so we can meet the others


----------



## Apo89

Hello everyone !
  
 im new here on headfi.
 i see that everyone is asking who number 98 is on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 that would be me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 thanks to hypnos1 because of him i orderd the euforia just in time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 because i all ready ordered the normale elise,
 it was my last week of waiting for the elise to arrive
 till hypnos1 said that there wil be a new elise
 so i sad to lukasz that i would rather want the euforia than the elise.
  
 so thank you


----------



## UntilThen

@Apo89 welcome to Head-Fi and welcome to Euforia thread. It's significant that you choose this thread for your first post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What did Lukasz say when you told him you wanted to change your order from Elise to Euforia? Are you out of your mind!!!!! No kidding. He wouldn't say that. I'm sure he was happy you decided to upgrade before you even received Elise. You are more dedicated than any of us.
  
 Well now we know who 98 is. That's a big load off our mind.


----------



## Apo89

thank you !

 no he was happy (i hope so)
he just said the words sread quickley 
im happy that i heard the news before my elise came in
or else i would be wandering but how much better the euforia would be


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *I'm wondering if the invoice numbers are shared between Elise and Eufori*a.
> 
> That means 98, 102 and 104 could be Elise buyers.
> 
> Also  Lukasz told me there were already some Euforia orders before me.


 
  
 Hi UT....yep, I should imagine you're right there - 104 new orders would have poor Henryk thinking "what have I created here?"...let alone the production team lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(not to mention yours truly...and all those extra hitmen after me if my ears have suddenly gone South/North/West/East, whichever!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...).
  


spork67 said:


> I apologise for buying into the DBT debate, and will refrain from doing so again.
> *I did find the POO acronym mildly amusing,* (I like immature acronyms) but also felt it was unfairly directed at H1.
> 
> I think we need MORE acronyms in this thread:
> ...


 
 Hi S67...I can assure you it wasn't used in any remotely amusing way, I'm afraid...and not as acronym lol! (there's a certain history here alas, known only to some...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 Love your own ones though...especially the last two! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(were those _before_ the tipples, or _after_?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


apo89 said:


> Hello everyone !
> 
> im new here on headfi.
> i see that everyone is asking who number 98 is on the list
> ...


 
  
 Yikes, Apo89...as UT says...that sure is *keen!*. But congrats on choosing a Feliks amp...would be interested to know what features enticed you away from the excellent Elise lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Glad also you managed to get the early discount - that sure was good of Lukasz to change the order for you so late in the day...but then, it will mean someone else gets their Elise that much earlier!...good for _them_ too!!


----------



## hypnos1

seamaster said:


> You are the first Australian made jokes so serious, haha


 
  
 Hi Seamaster...first, that was tragic news re. your McIntosh lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...commiserations. All my interconnects have silver plated outers...shall be extra careful from now on!
  
 Interesting re. just one output channel of stereo taking load, as would indeed happen as per @mordy's mention of one HP driver down...presumably, in our amps, this equates to running the amp at high volume setting with _no_ cans attached?...(not normally advised whatever the amp, I believe...).
  
 And as you've probably gathered by now, we old (sic!!) Elise owners can have some rather weird senses of humour sometimes...especially a certain demi-God Down Under! (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







), closely followed by too many to mention LOL!!...(you'll soon get to know them if you hang around!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> and all those extra hitmen after me if my ears have suddenly gone South/North/West/East, whichever!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not to worry. Even Lukasz say that Euforia is 1 or 2 league above Elise. Feliks Audio had a good listen to Euforia and deem it a substantial improvement, to sell it as a higher grade model of their headphone tubeamp range.
  
 Of course that is a manner of expression. As 'in a different league' but we could also take that literally and put in some numbers...
  
 Now we know that 1 league is 3 nautical miles or if you're a metric person, that's 5.556 kilometres. That's quite some distance.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Not to worry. Even Lukasz say that Euforia is 1 or 2 league above Elise. Feliks Audio had a good listen to Euforia and deem it a substantial improvement, to sell it as a higher grade model of their headphone tubeamp range.
> 
> Of course that is a manner of expression. As 'in a different league' but we could also take that literally and put in some numbers...
> 
> Now we know that 1 league is 3 nautical miles or if you're a metric person, that's 5.556 kilometres. That's quite some distance.


 
  
 Thanks for your reassurance UT...and faith in my judgment lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But, y'know, until someone else (or, rather, a good few!!) corroborates your own findings, there's always a certain 'frisson' in the air...well, for _me_ anyway...(not such a brash, carefree youngster any more alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 But my own version of mordy's "toe-tapping" - ie. _feeling_ the music - continues to strike me with each new piece of well-trodden music I bring to my (still, alas, _test-bed!_), and thus reinforces my confidence a good bit...'cos I don't want to disappoint _*anyone*_ who is investing not a small amount of money in this amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Sometimes I feel I shan't be able to truly just _listen and enjoy_ my music until others are enjoying their own amps...my analytical/critical 'left brain' keeps butting in, darned thing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Anyway, mon ami, I'm suddenly feeling a bit of DL's wonderfully (youthful!) OTT enthusiasm here...viz just how many leagues to _*your*_ neck of the woods lol?!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(well, I did say Euforia is indeed an '*Amazonian'* _she_, after all...(enough smileys...)....apart from...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Not to worry. Even Lukasz say that Euforia is 1 or 2 league above Elise. Feliks Audio had a good listen to Euforia and deem it a substantial improvement, to sell it as a higher grade model of their headphone tubeamp range.
> 
> Of course that is a manner of expression. As 'in a different league' but we could also take that literally and put in some numbers...
> 
> Now we know that 1 league is 3 nautical miles or if you're a metric person, that's 5.556 kilometres. That's quite some distance.


 

 Just to set everything in perspective. This is measure of difference between my Little Dot MKIV and Elise. I think Lukasz probably being very conservative in his league measurements.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys... interesting  *UPDATE *from Lukasz at F-A.
  
Firstly, as recommended/asked for by an Elise member some time ago (sorry, can't remember who) as another improvement, *Euforia's new power circuit now includes reduction of the* *"power off" spike* that can be disconcerting for some...welcome news indeed!...for _you_ lucky guys anyway, my prototype is without alas (but doesn't actually bother me too much anyway lol 





).
  
 Secondly, after @canthearyou's query a while back, they looked more closely into the actual power output figure and discovered it *is* in fact *10 to 20% greater than Elise *after all...and so will benefit more power hungry headphones, as well as contributing to the more dynamic/powerful sound...so more good news!!
  
 Now for my own update on tube acquisition lol...1x RFT EL12 (ST bottle) and 2x RFT EL12*N*s (straight bottle)...and although I'm strictly a "Coke Bottle" fan, I must admit these 'N's look _*really*_ nice...am very much looking forward to seeing just how the two types perform..._*as power tubes!!*_...but not until I get the OK from Lukasz that they should in fact at least not cause any damage to the amp...even though several folks have already tried them in their Elises with no apparent problems (as POWERS at least!) and to great acclaim...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I'm especially keen to see just how they compare to my all time favourite power tubes - the GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834...but this will be a while yet, methinks...   :
  
  

  
 ps. There's something about (old) triode-strapped pentodes that gets me more interested/excited by the day lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...along with @UntilThen, amongst many others (once again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## aqsw

Well , I put my Liquid Carbon and my Elise up for sale wanting to help fund my Euforia purchase, as I only need two amps. One for home and one for my office.
 I would keep whichever one that did not sell first.
  
 The Cavalli sold very quickly, which means I will have the Elise in my office and the Euforia in my home. I'm very happy with this.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Well , I put my Liquid Carbon and my Elise up for sale wanting to help fund my Euforia purchase, as I only need two amps. One for home and one for my office.
> I would keep whichever one that did not sell first.
> 
> The Cavalli sold very quickly, which means I will have the Elise in my office and the Euforia in my home. I'm very happy with this.


 
  
 Good news aqsw...and so now you too will be able to compare the two side-by-side...(even if not 100% perfectly lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The Cavalli name is indeed well-established in the head-fi community...F-A are still relative newcomers - but the name is spreading more and more...justifiably so IMHO...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope you don't have to wait _too_ long for Euforia...sure is lonely here...(plus, I need some extra protection, it would appear!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## Frederick Rea

oskari said:


> And the same here.
> 
> The reason we never discuss double-blind is that the discussion will never ever lead to anything useful.
> 
> Religion and politics are exactly the same.


 
 I can not disagree or agree with percentages or adjectives and superlatives for evaluation the same music with different setups, as it is a personal way of dealing, or trying to translate into numbers what is not possible. (Not forgetting that the hearing capacity of each one varies from oene another).
 PSICOACUSTICA is the theme. And it is a Science and an Option
 For this can be read for example
 http://thepowerofsound.net/psychoacoustics/
 Since the science of Tastes, Loves, and Memories is not defined, is felt, which implies all of our senses evaluated subconsciously and at one time in proper evaluation.
 Sound is what gives us most PLEASURE


----------



## Oskari

seamaster said:


> Just for an example: (Depends on how the amp is designed, but there is always a chance)


 
  
 The amps in question here are OTL. No output transformers to fry.


----------



## mordy

Just realized that the long time between #100 and #103 is because pct requested his amp later.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys... interesting  *UPDATE *from Lukasz at F-A.
> 
> Firstly, as recommended/asked for by an Elise member some time ago (sorry, can't remember who) as another improvement, *Euforia's new power circuit now includes reduction of the* *"power off" spike* that can be disconcerting for some...welcome news indeed!...for _you_ lucky guys anyway, my prototype is without alas (but doesn't actually bother me too much anyway lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 CJ, I don't usually quote someone's post completely but in this instance it's quote worthy and so I will. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Boy am I excited to wake up with news of more known differences between Euforia and Elise.
  
 Reduction of power off spikes and 10 to 20% more power for Euforia. Nice !!!
  
 I'm also glad you bought the EL12N. Now you can verify my (@HOWIE13 and @DecentLevi too) findings that the EL12N are great sounding power tubes. I paid just AUD$57 for my NOS NIB RFT pair. I've been running Sylvania 6sn7wgt and EL12N for several days. Elise feels cool to touch when operational after a few hours. Needless to say. it sounds great or the tubes won't remain in there for so long.
  
 Another pair of EL11 adapters are at the Post Office so I should be able to sample EL11 and EL12N combo over the weekend.
  
 Ps.. triode-strapped pentodes sounds great indeed.


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> I can not disagree or agree with percentages or adjectives and superlatives for evaluation the same music with different setups, as it is a personal way of dealing, or trying to translate into numbers what is not possible. (Not forgetting that the hearing capacity of each one varies from oene another).
> PSICOACUSTICA is the theme. And it is a Science and an Option
> For this can be read for example
> http://thepowerofsound.net/psychoacoustics/
> ...


 
  
 Hi F R...given @DavidA's love of hi-fi, _*plus*_ his exquisite taste in fermented liquids and gorgeous GFs, I would love to know _his_ views on this lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
  
 But _sound - _specifically_ *music*_ - certainly fires synapses right across the brain...and is so much more than an intellectual exercise, of course...whether it's emotional 'feeling' or mordy's (and others'!) 'toe-tapping' etc.etc....ie. truly _*wondrous!!*_...


----------



## Seamaster

oskari said:


> The amps in question here are OTL. No output transformers to fry.


 

 That is true but there are caps in between that can be overloaded or fried too. Anything short out in a electric circuit can not be healthy.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Well , I put my Liquid Carbon and my Elise up for sale wanting to help fund my Euforia purchase, as I only need two amps. One for home and one for my office.
> I would keep whichever one that did not sell first.
> 
> The Cavalli sold very quickly, which means I will have the Elise in my office and the Euforia in my home. I'm very happy with this.


 
  
 Not surprising the Liquid Carbon sold quickly because they don't produce that anymore.
  
 However who would dispute that you'll be very happy with Elise in the office and Euforia at home. Elise still sounds amazing to me, which is why I'm not selling it plus it takes 20,000 leagues for it to get to Sydney.
  
 Remember we're biking across Canada .... someday.


----------



## hypnos1

seamaster said:


> That is true but there are caps in between that can be overloaded or fried too. Anything short out in a electric circuit can not be healthy.


 
  
 Those caps sure do hold some juice...it always amazes me there aren't more problems caused by these things lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I can never get out of my mind the video of someone's totally burned out amp due to installing a new cap next to his old one, without due care and attention...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!). I suppose there is indeed _something_ to be said for an "Output Capacitor-Less" OTL amp LOL!!...
  
 But Elise and Euforia have protective circuitry that hopefully would at least mean the house doesn't burn down!!
  
 However, of course, shorting tubes can themselves cause real damage, which again should be mimimised by said protection...


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Not surprising the Liquid Carbon sold quickly because they don't produce that anymore.
> 
> However who would dispute that you'll be very happy with Elise in the office and Euforia at home. Elise still sounds amazing to me, which is why I'm not selling it plus it takes 20,000 leagues for it to get to Sydney.
> 
> Remember we're biking across Canada .... someday.


 
 I still own those motorcycles.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I still own those motorcycles.


 
 I forgot which ones.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> CJ, I don't usually quote someone's post completely but in this instance it's quote worthy and so I will.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ditto re. your own post, UT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(plus, I'm wondering just what 'cosmetic/identification' tweaks they've come up with...if yours is prettier than mine, I just might breathe a wee sigh...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but only a _teeny weeny_ one lol...(hmmmm, wonder what I can ask Lukasz for next..._don't even go there!!!..._








).
  
 Given the price of the EL12N, assuming F-A at least confirm they shouldn't cause any real problems as *power* tubes, these could indeed prove as big a find as the EL11 driver. Looking forward to your own results with 11/12N combo...and even more so different driver/ST 12 combos! As for me, I simply cannot see them surpassing my 11/GECs..._*in my system*_...but who knows - if they come even close, then they will indeed be an amazing bargain...
  
 Now then, you just might be the one to help out a newbie who's been in touch with me asking about suitability of Euforia for his types of music - *Chinese pop songs/Kitari/all modern*. I personally think this amp would suit just fine, especially for vocals, given the smooth delivery and detail right across the FR. He's also looking for cans that might equal the T1s, but for less money...any ideas, after your experience with Elise? Anyone else's views/advice is also gratefully accepted!!...THANKS and CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I forgot which ones.


 
 I have two 650 Suzuki Burgmans which we would use. I have other bikes too, but we would look so cool on these two. They are very capable bikes for cross country.
 Automatic cvt tranny too.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Now then, you just might be the one to help out a newbie who's been in touch with me asking about suitability of Euforia for his types of music - *Chinese pop songs/Kitari/all modern*. I personally think this amp would suit just fine, especially for vocals, given the smooth delivery and detail right across the FR. He's also looking for cans that might equal the T1s, but for less money...any ideas, after your experience with Elise? Anyone else's views/advice is also gratefully accepted!!...THANKS and CHEERS!...CJ


 
  
 Are you kidding me??? Elise sings like a chinese song bird. A pure diva. Just ask @richard68 ( I think that's his sign on). He loves Faye Wong and all the favourite chinese singers with his Elise.
  
 I imagine Euforia will be better, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Anyway Richard is dancing now. So am I.
  

  
  
 Cans cheaper than T1 for Elise and Euforia?  HD600 without a doubt.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I have two 650 Suzuki Burgmans which we would use. I have other bikes too, but we would look so cool on these two. They are very capable bikes for cross country.
> Automatic cvt tranny too.


 
  
 Oh wow those Burgmans do look cool indeed. I'm coming AQ !!!  Make sure your GPS is working.
  

  
 Oh wait this is the 650.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Cans cheaper than T1 for Elise and Euforia?  HD600 without a doubt.


 
  
 Minority Report:  Consider HD700.


----------



## connieflyer

@UntilThen if you decided to come stateside, I could loan you mine, it is super hopped up, new siren and streamers!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> @UntilThen if you decided to come stateside, I could loan you mine, it is super hopped up, new siren and streamers!


 
  
 So kind of you. How about the connie flyer instead?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Are you kidding me??? Elise sings like a chinese song bird. A pure diva. Just ask @richard68 ( I think that's his sign on). He loves Faye Wong and all the favourite chinese singers with his Elise.
> 
> I imagine Euforia will be better, no?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thought you might say that, UT....thanks (and yes, even _better_ in Euforia!).
  
 So, the HD600s are that good? And the 700s, @pctazhp?...quite a price difference, I suspect!...keep the recommendations coming, guys...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. The guy in question was also wondering about the amp comparison with 300b-based amps, but we're normally looking at different price category entirely of course!!!...


----------



## pctazhp

HD700 is $423 now on Amazon. I sold mine about a year ago, but guy I sold it to decided to get out of headphones. I tried to tell him he didn't have to wear them 24/7........forget that. Anyway he wanted the 700s to have a good home and gave them back to me for free a while back.
  
 They do have the treble spike, but it's not too bad. I guess some don't even notice it. Very open and clear sounding, with well controlled bass. Worthy of consideration, perhaps.
  
 Edit:  Speaking of a while back. I've got a weak back. Do you know how long I've had it? About a week back.


----------



## mordy

I think Massdrop had a Senn 650 with a 3.5mm plug for $200, but I don't know if it is available any more.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't forget there's the V-Monk Plus.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's someone who likes both HD600 and HD700.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-600/reviews/17856


----------



## DavidA

hypnos1 said:


> Hi F R...given @DavidA's love of hi-fi, _*plus*_ his exquisite taste in fermented liquids and gorgeous GFs, I would love to know _his_ views on this lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry F R, sound doesn't give me the most pleasure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 With the stock tubes in the Elise which is quite a warm sounding amp the HD-600, 700, 800 or T1 would be my recommendations
  
 If changing tubes to give a more neutral sound then the HD-650, HD-800S would be better choices IMO.
  
 OTL amps and planars are not a pairing that I and many of my friends who have them care for or would recommend.  You lose the speed of the planar and the sound gets a little "Veiled" for lack of a better description but if the sound appeals to you then its all good. 
  
 Higher end Grados and the Ypsilon and Nhoord drivers I've been playing with can sound quite nice with the stock tubes of the Elise and probably with Euforia for those that want to control or tame the highs which can be harsh/sibilant for some but I feel a hybrid or a warm SS amp does a better job due to the output impedance usually being much lower than most OTL designs.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Don't forget there's the *V-Monk Plus.*


 
  
 It's actually quite curious you should mention the Monk. I'm catching a redeye tonight to Boston to visit my son and his family (including his mother - otherwise fondly known as my x-wife), The Monk is the only thing I have to take on the plane with my Galaxy S7.
  
 Tonight I will be a pctazhp-flyer. Up, up and away


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp this is for you as you visit your "ex"


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp this is for you as you visit your "ex"





 Thanks CF. Sounds quite wonderful on the HD700s. Very nice send off.
  
 I'm excited about the trip. It's been a long time. I couldn't be more proud of my son. He's my favorite man in the entire world and has a lovely and beautiful wife. Of course, my two grandchildren are the BEST. They keep me laughing constantly. Even more than you, my good friend)))
  
 I'll check in before I leave, but probably won't be around here much for the next few days.
  
 Edit:  In fairness I should also say that fortunately my ex and I have remained good friends over the years )))


----------



## connieflyer

That's great about you and your wife remaining friends. That is so important especially for your son and the grandchildren. After all he is part of both of you and the fact that he said success goes back to the two of you. You are truly blessed and I couldn't be happier for you. And now I will get off my soapbox. Have a good trip


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks everyone for your HP recommendations...such a difficult call...nearly as bad as tubes lol!!
  
 I'm surprised at your removing the T1s from your top recommendation for non-stock tubes @DavidA, yet list the HD650s. In my own setup, although the 650s sound the best I've ever heard them, the T1s really are much more polished, exciting and _involving_...in fact for me, they're doing _everything _better lol! Perhaps it's "system synergy" at work here!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This really is a case of needing to hear as many different cans _in one's own system_ to get any proper idea...anything else is pure guess work IMHO...
  
 But at least, hopefully, the enquirer can perhaps manage to somehow try out all you guys' suggestions...if he's extremely lucky lol!...and thanks once again...
  
 Now it's back to Euforia and T1s...my _own_ dream combo!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
 G'night y'all...and HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## connieflyer

If you think about it it's kind of interesting here we are middle of page 14 on the thread and there's only one person that has the new amp. This thread is going to blow wide open once more these amp get in the hands of the users. Just my opinion of course


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh awesome sauce now we can have an app that emulates the amp lol. Agreed though, the excitement is palpable and thus thread is making me even more excited than before I ordered. Looks like H1 may ultimately need someone to lift a 'lil weight off his shoulders though


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> That's great about you and your wife remaining friends. That is so important especially for your son and the grandchildren. After all he is part of both of you and the fact that he said success goes back to the two of you. You are truly blessed and I couldn't be happier for you. And now I will get off my soapbox. Have a good trip


 

 Thanks CF for your very kind words.
  
 If I'm not asleep I'll wave to you as I fly over tonight))
  
 A lot of great things lie ahead for us Euforia guys)))
  
 Wish you and everyone a great weekend


----------



## connieflyer

Back at you


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> He's also looking for cans that might equal the T1s, but for less money...any ideas, after your experience with Elise?


 
  
 Sorry I did not read your question thoroughly. *There are no cans that might equal the T1s for less money.* Nit, nada, zip, impossible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 HD600 is a cheaper alternative but it's not in the same league as T1. Details, clarity and soundstage with a tight fisted bass are all part of T1's resume.
  
 I probably could love HD800 with Elise but right now T1 floats my boat. This is the sound signature that I like. Others will have their preference.
  
 My T1 runs with a Litz ultra pure 7N OCC copper cable.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Sorry I did not read your question thoroughly. *There are no cans that might equal the T1s for less money.* Nit, nada, zip, impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks UT...and yes, I agree...I personally haven't managed to find reports of any similar types of HP that can match the T1s for _*less*_...perhaps 2017 _might_ just throw something into the mix lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And now for something rather worrying...DL and H13 are both finding problems with the ST EL12 as opposed to the straight bottle 12N...there could possibly be actual differences in spec between them that our amps don't like, so it looks like we're gonna have to be *VERY CAREFUL* in trialling these versions!!


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks UT...and yes, I agree...I personally haven't managed to find reports of any similar types of HP that can match the T1s for _*less*_...perhaps 2017 _might_ just throw something into the mix lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's very plausible H1
  
 I'll stick to the straight bottle EL12's for now. They sound great anyway.
 My coke bottle shaped EL11's have all been fine.


----------



## DecentLevi

To me it would not seem to be a problem with ST-shaped EL12's with the Elise, but rather some manufacturing issue that caused them to be easily damaged in transit, because from the very first moment one of mine was not lighting on the the Elise, and it had about 30% greater gain than RFT EL12's, sounding very refined with no distortion. And the seller said he re-tested them just before sending (long haul from Germany). Didn't you successfully use several bottle shaped EL12's also H1?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> To me it would not seem to be a problem with ST-shaped EL12's with the Elise, but rather some manufacturing issue that caused them to be easily damaged in transit, because from the very first moment one of mine was not lighting on the the Elise, and it had about 30% greater gain than RFT EL12's, sounding very refined with no distortion. And the seller said he re-tested them just before sending (long haul from Germany). Didn't you successfully use several bottle shaped EL12's also H1?


 
 No, all my EL11 tubes are dark glass coke bottle shaped Telefunken and work fine. My EL12 tubes are all straight RFT's, which all work fine. I have one Siemens EL12 coke bottle shaped tube that also works OK.
  
 It could be a transit problem I guess-maybe after all these years some coke bottle shaped EL12 tubes have become peculiarly fragile for some reason.


----------



## UntilThen

@HOWIE13  @DecentLevi are the problematic 'coke' shaped EL12  new old stock or advertised as 'used'? It's probably just bad tubes rather than it not being compatible with Elise, because Howie did have a Siemens EL12 and DL a Valvo EL12 that worked.
  
 These are 40s and 50s tubes. I'm not surprised if they are dead on arrival. Get a refund though.
  
 I've a RFT and Telefunken EL12 (both NOS) incoming and I'll see if they have the same problem.


----------



## UntilThen

Came home from work yesterday and my other pair of adapters for EL11 has arrived. Listened to the EL11 and EL12N combo for a few hours then went to bed. 
  
 Both EL11 and EL12N had enough hours on them prior. I had listened to them separately but never together. Now at 5am, I'm listening to them together again... a continuation from last night. In the quietness and calmness of the early morning, Obi-wan kenobi appeared and told me 'This is the Chosen One'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This combo looks as good as it sounds or sounds as good as it looks, however way you want to look at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That's enough impressions for now while I savour more of this lovely tone.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  @DecentLevi are the problematic 'coke' shaped EL12  new old stock or advertised as 'used'? It's probably just bad tubes rather than it not being compatible with Elise, because Howie did have a Siemens EL12 and DL a Valvo EL12 that worked.
> 
> These are 40s and 50s tubes. I'm not surprised if they are dead on arrival. Get a refund though.
> 
> I've a RFT and Telefunken EL12 (both NOS) incoming and I'll see if they have the same problem.


 
 Yes I got refunded, without problem. They were advertised as NOS, whatever that REALLY means 'cos at their age how could a seller know the tube's provenance for certain?
 Hope your tubes work out- if not the RFT straight bottle EL12's are brilliant anyway as powers, as we have both discovered. Good lookers too.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Yes I got refunded, without problem. They were advertised as NOS, whatever that REALLY means 'cos at their age how could a seller know the tube's provenance for certain?
> Hope your tubes work out- if not the RFT straight bottle EL12's are brilliant anyway as powers, as we have both discovered. Good lookers too.


 
 True. I've NOS tubes that arrived where the boxes looks like they have been eaten by rabbits and pins that looked like they have been in an Egyptian mummy for centuries.
  
 However when you clean them and they light up on your tube amp and reward you with the most lovelies of lovely musical notes, it's like you have punted on the right horse at the race.


----------



## mordy

US Amazon has the T1 Gen 1 for $599.-:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031RD3YY/ref=pe_2602570_223483040_em_1p_1_ti
  
 Only two left whatever that means


----------



## hypnos1

Well, guys...it looks like the ST-bottle EL12 issue is still "undecided" - it would probably have been wiser to ask Lukasz first if the differemt spec to EL11 just _might_ cause problems...I personally always do so before recommending any tube (unless I have conducted _*very*_ extensive trials first, over a *very *long period lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...And no, @DecentLevi, I haven't yet tried the EL12 or 12N...perhaps your post was directed at H13?
  
 However, I do hope @UntilThen that you have no problems with your own ST 12s...I'm still a little apprehensive about this tube, and its several iterations! But even so, I shall give at least one of my RFTs a try, to see how things are with my own adapting...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 It's nice to hear that the 12Ns appear to be behaving themselves, though, and that they are sounding so good for so little money!
  
 UT...with F-A confirming the extra power output from Euforia, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see what it does for your HE560s...perhaps this just might open up more opportunities for planar magnetic lovers?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ps. Fear not DL...if (when!) I start to flag, the "Old Geezers" here will be more than up to the task of keeping my head above water lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS! all...


----------



## DavidA

mordy said:


> US Amazon has the T1 Gen 1 for $599.-:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031RD3YY/ref=pe_2602570_223483040_em_1p_1_ti
> 
> Only two left whatever that means


 
 Wish you didn't post this LOL, I was thinking of getting a second T1 since it looks like my son is not going to return the one he borrowed any time soon, if ever.  Only problem is I would still need to do the mini-XLR mod for removable cables again.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> US Amazon has the T1 Gen 1 for $599.-:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031RD3YY/ref=pe_2602570_223483040_em_1p_1_ti
> 
> Only two left whatever that means


 
  
 Hi m....as far as I'm concerned, that's silly money for such brilliant cans lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  I'll be doing some extensive test with EL12 on Elise ... that is a certainty. Perhaps it might like the fresh air down under and good old aussie jokes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's terrible that I'm using Elise as a test bed before it goes into Euforia but that's how it will be in this cave. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EL11 and EL12N does sound very good so far. Elise is cool to the touch with this combo after several hours.
  
 Extra power will help the HE560 but my son has taken it back. In any case, ever since T1 came to me, I've preferred it over the HE560. T1 simply has more clarity and details (plus that soundstage) than HE560 on Elise. Astounding isn't it? Considering HE560 is no slouch. The HiFiman headphone is a very good sounding planar but I'll be the first to admit that OTL is best suited to dynamics headphone.
  
 PS... rest assure I'll try out HE560 on Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  I'll be doing some extensive test with EL12 on Elise ... that is a certainty. Perhaps it might like the fresh air down under and good old aussie jokes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's (semi-!) good news UT...you're a real pioneer...(just don't want you to cause 'Humphrey' any pain lol - he's been _exceptionally_ kind to you so far!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). GOOD LUCK!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps. Hope you do indeed manage to try the 560s...just for comparison's sake!


----------



## connieflyer

@mordy You sir, are a trouble maker.  I was perfectly happy with the Senn 800 and then you had to post the ad for T1's, there were two left, sat here trying to decide, reloaded page, and there was only one left, you are horrible, I did mention that didn't I? Could not stand the suspense, so I got the last one. Had to do something while waiting for new amp. I had a pair of these last yea but after 3 weeks the left driver went out, I really liked them, but got the 800 next, which I also really like. Now I will have another decision to make, which headphone to use (when new amp gets here of course).  Well, it is nice to have choices, I guess. Thanks for the heads up on the sale, at this price it was a no brainer as @DavidA said.  I can see the future now, they find my lifeless body, shrunken from lack of food that I could no longer afford, wearing both pair of headphones listening to a new amp with no electricity.  It is on you my friend! (All in good fun of course)


----------



## UntilThen

Another photo of Elise with EL11 and EL12N. Next to it, the DV336se is shod with RCA 6sn7 coin base and Tung Sol 5998. It's not even close now the 2 amps. 
  
 Elise with EL11 and EL12N simply check these boxes:-
  
 High frequencies - good
 Mid-range - good
 Bass - good
 Soundstage - good
 Imaging - good
 Details - great
 Clarity - As clear as Polaroid
 Transparency - see through. Make sure no one is around you.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> @mordy You sir, are a trouble maker.  I was perfectly happy with the Senn 800 and then you had to post the ad for T1's, there were two left, sat here trying to decide, reloaded page, and there was only one left, you are horrible, I did mention that didn't I? Could not stand the suspense, so I got the last one. Had to do something while waiting for new amp. I had a pair of these last yea but after 3 weeks the left driver went out, I really liked them, but got the 800 next, which I also really like. Now I will have another decision to make, which headphone to use (when new amp gets here of course).  Well, it is nice to have choices, I guess. Thanks for the heads up on the sale, at this price it was a no brainer as @DavidA said.  I can see the future now, they find my lifeless body, shrunken from lack of food that I could no longer afford, wearing both pair of headphones listening to a new amp with no electricity.  It is on you my friend! (All in good fun of course)


 
  
 Oh dear, cf...I fear that I too (not to mention @UntilThen) may just be equally guilty...but why am I not feeling _too_ guilty lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...WELL DONE!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 We're gonna have some real good cans to put Euforia through her paces...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

I figured at this price even if I decided not to keep them I'd be able to resell them for what I have in them. But I know I really like them last time and if the seller would have offered to give me a new pair and return for the pair that were bad I would have taken them. But they only offered refunds so I bought the Sennheiser 800 instead. Well here's to happy headphones swapping once the new amp gets here


----------



## UntilThen

Did @pctazhp  buy the other T1 ?


----------



## Spork67

The only dynamic headphone comparable to a T1 but cheaper is a discounted (or second hand) T1.
  
 They DO pop up VERY cheap sometimes, but you need to be quick. http://camelcamelcamel.com/Beyerdynamic-T1-Audiophile-Stereo-Headphone/product/B0031RD3YY?active=new&context=browse
  
 Used STAX 404's are also in the same league - but of course you can't drive them with Elise or Euforia - mores the shame.
  
 ps: Congrats on your new acquisition CF.
 I'm sure there will be some interest in how the T1 compare to the HD-800s with these amps.
 (no - I won't ask you to DBT).


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> ps: Congrats on your new acquisition CF.
> I'm sure there will be some interest in how the T1 compare to the HD-800s with these amps.
> (no - I won't ask you to DBT).


 
  
 We'll get him to do RBT - Random Breath Testing.
  
 I can tell it's a T1 now even if blind folded.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 since your prodigy ask about Kitaro on Euforia, let me tell you it's a moving experience on Elise with this Matsuri.


----------



## connieflyer

@UntilThen this was one of my favorites


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry this is the one I have hit the wrong key, must stop for dinner.


----------



## connieflyer

Or how about Jesse Sykes?


----------



## connieflyer

Goodnight


----------



## connieflyer

Is nobody awake at 3:30 a.m. except me It is soooooo boooorrrrring without the Elise.  Used to be if I could not sleep I would put on the phones and mellow out for a few hours.  Don't want to turn on the main speakers at this hour, as I would like it at a decent level and the neighbors are all asleep. I forgot this would happen before I sold my Elise. I must stay off Ebay and Amazon, don't be tempted to buy stuff. I suppose I do some paint prep work but that is boring tool Oh no one around here, better move on


----------



## Oskari

What do you mean? It's 1100 hours.


----------



## Spork67

8:00 pm here.


----------



## UntilThen

What's up? Did you miss me @connieflyer  ? I was watching Tennis - Australian Open and tidying up the lounge. Got to reinstate the HiFi system again. 
  
 Ok here's my report card for Telefunken EL11 and RFt EL12N combo. 3 words.


----------



## UntilThen

This applies to buying Euforia too.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> @hypnos1 since your prodigy ask about Kitaro on Euforia, let me tell you it's a moving experience on Elise with this Matsuri.




  
 Right then UT...prodigy's query well and truly answered...THANKS!...
  
 ps. Said prodigy was reticent about posting directly due to "Chinese being his Mother tongue" and for fear his English might not be understood properly...(but is actually quite good in my book - a million times better than my _Chinese_ lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*...*hmmm, not really fair on him, as a million times *nil* is still *nil*, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







). If he's looking in (or anyone else for that matter)...ALL (_*FRIENDLIES!*_) ARE WELCOME HERE...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


connieflyer said:


> Is nobody awake at 3:30 a.m. except me It is soooooo boooorrrrring without the Elise.  Used to be if I could not sleep I would put on the phones and mellow out for a few hours.  Don't want to turn on the main speakers at this hour, as I would like it at a decent level and the neighbors are all asleep. I forgot this would happen before I sold my Elise. I must stay off Ebay and Amazon, don't be tempted to buy stuff. I suppose I do some paint prep work but that is boring tool Oh no one around here, better move on


 
  
 Please don't remind me of all the time without Elise (or Euforia!), cf...._*much*_ too painful, dear friend...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but know we all share your pain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - _*especially*_ with T1s incoming as well..._*doubly*_ painful lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(at least you have Connor's shoulder(?!) to cry on...on second thoughts, just give him a hug...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


untilthen said:


> This applies to buying Euforia too.


 
  
 Hey UT...you on _*double*_ commission this time?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(or is that sole distribution rights Down Under...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## connieflyer

Heavy fog this morning took Connor for a walk barely see your hand in front of your face. Pretty cool haven't seen it like this and ages. Breakfast is over watch the movie and answering post from different forums wow this really gets exciting without that amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Heavy fog this morning took Connor for a walk barely see your hand in front of your face. Pretty cool haven't seen it like this and ages. Breakfast is over watch the movie and answering post from different forums wow this really gets exciting without that amplifier


 
  
  
 Since you're without Elise, let me torment you even more. Let me explain why I prefer the star combo of the moment (EL11 and EL12) over other combos. Before I go any further, let me state that the other combos sound spectacular too on Elise. So what distinguish the El Duo combo? I've been thinking and thinking, reaching deep for an answer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Then it came to me in a flash. It's presence. Presence relating to clarity, specifically 'upfront' and 'sharpness' of the tonal timbre. El Duo simply has more of that than other combos. It even amplifies louder. Not just in volume. Each musical note is bigger and has more presence. This combo is vivid and vibrant sounding yet maintaining the right touch of warm.
  
 Ok now that I've got that out of the way, I can go back to head bobbing and toe tapping.


----------



## connieflyer

So if I use my imagination and buy a combo and have them sitting next to the headphones I'll be able to feel the presence of the new amp? Sounds like a nice combination can't wait to try it. Oh that's right I guess I have to wait to try it.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> So if I use my imagination and buy a combo and have them sitting next to the headphones I'll be able to feel the presence of the new amp? Sounds like a nice combination can't wait to try it. Oh that's right I guess I have to wait to try it.


 
  
 You might BUT that depends on the powers of your imagination. All you have to do is believe.


----------



## DecentLevi

Just remembered to share what a positive experience it was a few days ago buying the Euforia. Feliks Audio sent me an invoice with an easy "pay now" button, absorbed the Paypal fee and didn't even charge me for shipping.
  
@HOWIE13 - wonder if you may go Euforia too? If funds are tight I was wondering if maybe you would want to sell your Espressivo, Elise and maybe a few tubes? 
_(I don't need it though)_


----------



## pctazhp

Fiinally chance to check in. Very sad to see how elevated the discussion has become in my absence. Right now I'm feeling the "presence" of the family dog. Over and out as CF probably to say a lot)))


----------



## connieflyer

DL did you look at the invoice from Paypal?  The invoice breaks down charges as far as shipping and vat.


----------



## connieflyer

Just checked my order, it got cancelled for the T1's.  No reason  given, got on chat with them and they did not know why either since I had my email confirmation. He offered to have one sent out next day air, but they only had two at $787 so I told him to forget it.  Oh well it will be easier, now only have to grab THE headphone. Sorry @DavidA.


----------



## Oskari

Yo, CF! Gib teh goggie a kis!

There'll be headphones.


----------



## dan_can

The price for the amp has VAT included.


----------



## connieflyer

On the invoice shipping is separated and that is separated and the amp is separated yes the vet is figured in the price of the amp I'm just letting you know if you read the invoice it says the amount for bat and the amount for shipping


----------



## dan_can

My point is VAT shouldn't be charged for buyers outside EU. In my case, I'm going to pay my local tax again once it's imported.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Since you're without Elise, let me torment you even more. Let me explain why I prefer the star combo of the moment (EL11 and EL12) over other combos. Before I go any further, let me state that the other combos sound spectacular too on Elise. So what distinguish the El Duo combo? I've been thinking and thinking, reaching deep for an answer.
> 
> Then it came to me in a flash. It's presence. Presence relating to clarity, specifically 'upfront' and 'sharpness' of the tonal timbre. El Duo simply has more of that than other combos. It even amplifies louder. Not just in volume. Each musical note is bigger and has more presence. This combo is vivid and vibrant sounding yet maintaining the right touch of warm.
> 
> Ok now that I've got that out of the way, I can go back to head bobbing and toe tapping.




Well UT, you just cost me some more cash. Bought two EL12Ns to try with the Euforia. Just have to wait for Mrsx to get back, and the Euforia to arrive. I'm 
Going to pair this with the EL3N drivers. I still have a bunch of these and really do like their sound.


----------



## aqsw

dan_can said:


> My point is VAT shouldn't be charged for buyers outside EU. In my case, I'm going to pay my local tax again once it's imported.




Not really sure how the vat works for Canadians, but I do know Im paying the price I was quoted. VAT in or VAT exempt. Doesn't
Matter to me where they put those funds. Im still not paying extra for VAT.

Price is 1291.00 for the amp including vat

Price is 1291.00 for the amp (vat exempt)


----------



## dan_can

I bought lots of stuff online from Europe. In every case to date, there were two prices, one with VAT included for EU buyers and the other with VAT deducted for outside EU buyers. The price listed for Euforia includes the VAT which should be deducted for us non EU buyers. VAT in Poland is about 23%.

I believe it will generate more sales from outside EU for Feliks audio.

@aqsw have your preordered one?


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Well UT, you just cost me some more cash. Bought two EL12Ns to try with the Euforia. Just have to wait for Mrsx to get back, and the Euforia to arrive. I'm
> Going to pair this with the EL3N drivers. I still have a bunch of these and really do like their sound.


 
  
 Ah my friend it's a small price to pay for excellence. Just remember the word Present or Presence.
  
 Ps..... I haven't tested on Euforia !!!  Only on Elise. That's for the future - a mystery.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Fiinally chance to check in. Very sad to see how elevated the discussion has become in my absence. Right now I'm feeling the "presence" of the family dog. Over and out as CF probably to say a lot)))


 
  
 This thread waits for no one. It's like the tide. It's just endless. Btw absence and presence are 2 extremes. It's either the absence of good sound or the presence of glorious tones.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey UT...you on _*double*_ commission this time?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo @hypnos1 I will leave it to you to answer vat, vet and bat. Me? My job is sales.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> @HOWIE13 - wonder if you may go Euforia too? If funds are tight I was wondering if maybe you would want to sell your Espressivo, Elise and maybe a few tubes?
> _(I don't need it though)_


 
  
 Believe me Howie has no shortage of funds. It's just explaining to the wife why the need for another tube amp !!! I guess he could say it's a new microwave.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Since you're without Elise, let me torment you even more. Let me explain why I prefer the star combo of the moment (EL11 and EL12) over other combos. Before I go any further, let me state that the other combos sound spectacular too on Elise. So what distinguish the El Duo combo? I've been thinking and thinking, reaching deep for an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
@mordy would be proud of you, UT!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...with the even greater dynamics of the Euforia, I can already see the ear-to-ear smile these tubes will bring lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(mine is beginning to have my better half even more suspicious than usual!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


pctazhp said:


> Fiinally chance to check in. *Very sad to see how elevated the discussion has become in my absence.* Right now I'm feeling the "presence" of the family dog. Over and out as CF probably to say a lot)))


 
 Could that be saying something, mon ami?...perhaps it's all downhill from now on?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*I'm sure not!!...*_








...glad to have you back...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (my fervent hope is that Ukraine has _very_ reliable internet connections LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


connieflyer said:


> Just checked my order, it got cancelled for the T1's.  No reason  given, got on chat with them and they did not know why either since I had my email confirmation. He offered to have one sent out next day air, but they only had two at $787 so I told him to forget it.  Oh well it will be easier, now only have to grab THE headphone. Sorry @DavidA.


 
  
 That is *TRAGIC*, cf...mostly for *us!!*








...you must be more careful next time lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


dan_can said:


> My point is VAT shouldn't be charged for buyers outside EU. In my case, I'm going to pay my local tax again once it's imported.


 
  
 Hi dan_can...I certainly hear you! This is something I asked Lukasz about from the very beginning with Elise - most definitely a big obstacle for overseas sales. It appears that Polish regulations make it extremely difficult (and probably costly!) for small companies especially to allow "Export" prices, free from the dreaded VAT. I have repeated my plea, but obviously things haven't got any easier for Feliks-Audio in this matter. We can only hope they have more luck in the future...
  
 ps. Mind you, we here get that darned 20% VAT + Customs "handling" slapped on anything we import from the USA, Canada, China etc....so it does work both ways lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and just what do they do with that money?...never any _really_ satisfactory answers, methinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Mind you, we here get that darned 20% VAT + Customs "handling" slapped on anything we import from the USA, Canada, China etc....so it does work both ways lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm fortunate here. I don't pay any extra local tax or customs fees on Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Intrigue by what FA says about using high quality Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors in Euforia, I decided to do a bit of digging.
  
 Then I came across Eric's Blog on 'Capacitors Shoot Out'. Makes for an interesting read. 
  
 http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/capacitor-shoot-out.html


----------



## UntilThen

Huh now we consider resistor rolling. FA says they use Dale and Caddock resistors.
  
 This guy sheds some of his insights:-
  
 I'm bumping up this thread as I just completed a comparison of resistors in the gridleak position of a tube pre-amp. 

The contenders:

Vishay S102C
Tc TX2575
Dale RN65
Takman Rey
Shinko Tantalum
Holco (old stock)
Caddock USF340 (TF020)
Generic Metal Film
PRP

This was quite an interesting undertaking as I was not expecting to hear drastic differences. In the past I heard differences between resistors but mainly in the high frequencies (cartridge loading application)

The Shinko Tantalum was by far the most inaccurate resistor of the lot. Dale RN had the most bass and midrange warmth. TX 2575- the biggest disappointment of the lot. A laid back/bland/lifeless sound. S102/PRP/Takman/- not worth the time of day. Holco- now this is an interesting part. Very lively/dynamic/textured presentation with great inner detail and prat. Unfortunately it adds a fullness to vocals and mid-bass that ultimately becomes distracting.

And the winner......by a w-i-d-e margin is the Caddock USF340 (TF020). Clearly the most transparent/musical/involving resistor I've had the pleasure to hear.
  
  
 As for me, the truth is in the pudding.. listening I mean. Looking forward to the Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'm fortunate here. I don't pay any extra local tax or customs fees on Elise.


 
  
 Ok, OK UT...and all on top of "Humphrey" - no need to rub it in lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


untilthen said:


> Intrigue by what FA says about using high quality Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors in Euforia, I decided to do a bit of digging.
> 
> Then I came across Eric's Blog on 'Capacitors Shoot Out'. Makes for an interesting read.
> 
> http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/capacitor-shoot-out.html


 
  
 Methinks you just might need to do a good bit more digging yet, alas...seems like only _very_ narrow applicability to me - couldn't see much reference to _tube_ amps there lol!!...EDIT...silly me, his Diva _does_ have tubes!!!...ah well...
 I do believe that as with resistors, what is best suited where depends a great deal on the circuits in question...a point only touched on by one reply, with the less-than-helpful statement about there being no _bad_, or _good_...but solely depending on the circuit...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I suspect this topic is ten times more controversial than tubes even!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...so get studying, mon ami...and GOOD LUCK!...Me?..I'm just gonna rely on Pop Feliks's judgment LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(enough turmoil with tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Huh now we consider resistor rolling. FA says they use Dale and Caddock resistors.
> 
> This guy sheds some of his insights:-
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again UT...you _have_ been busy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well, it sure does look like dear Henryk has indeed been doing his homework...or, more likely, he's known this for a VERY long time already lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. Better be sure to have a nice BIG pudding bowl ready...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

Ooops...my bad @UntilThen...that Diva _does_ have tubes...silly me!


----------



## MIKELAP

I saw there is a bigger transformer cover on Euforia compared to Elise is there in fact a bigger better or different transfo in there or just more breathing room ?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again UT...you _have_ been busy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's my conclusion too. Henryk knows all about caps and resistors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On top of that I was going to expand on heavy duty Teflon coated gold plated tube sockets. Now I wouldn't know what's being used in Euforia is Yamamoto's teflon coated sockets but I imagine they are similar.
 http://www.jacmusic.com/sockets/Socket-Yamamoto.htm
  
 Ok I'm inundated with too much info.


----------



## MIKELAP

Might go for it eventually in the process of selling stuff just got into guitars so that  scratched of the list . So now looking to sell my WA2 and possibly my newly aquired Senns HD6XX I just purchased from Massdrop so who knows ? Still have my Senns HD800S that i acquired recently .They should pair well with Euforia .Like they say good things happen to does who wait .


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> I saw there is a bigger transformer cover on Euforia compared to Elise is there in fact a bigger better or different transfo in there or just more breathing room ?


 
  
  


mikelap said:


> Might go for it eventually in the process of selling stuff just got into guitars so that  scratched of the list . So now looking to sell my WA2 and possibly my newly aquired Senns HD6XX I just purchased from Massdrop so who knows ? Still have my Senns HD800S that i acquired recently .They should pair well with Euforia .Like they say good things happen to does who wait .


 
  
 Yay Mikey !!!  Good things about to happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 H1 mentioned that transfo is still the same but that Lukasz reported that there is additional power delivery - 10 to 20% over Elise.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> Intrigue by what FA says about using high quality Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors in Euforia, I decided to do a bit of digging.
> 
> Then I came across Eric's Blog on 'Capacitors Shoot Out'. Makes for an interesting read.
> 
> http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/capacitor-shoot-out.html


 
 Well although I'm an adventurous tube roller, I'm feelin' I may stay on the cautionary side of this one. 
  
 Replacing internal parts would seem sure to void the warranty, and especially if done wrong can cause a bit of a chain reaction. Not to mention you'd likely need to de-solder at least the first time. It would seem in all likelyhood the team at Feliks Audio have already chosen the optimal sounding resistors and caps for the Euforia, and the sound can still be customized quite well with tubes. Not to say that these wouldn't make a large difference, but to me they seem risky and unnecessary.


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 I was sorry to read that they cancelled your order for the T1. Checked Amazon and it is available for the higher price now. I would not accept that they changed the price on you when you had a confirmation.
  
 Amazon is very strict and the sellers are petrified of getting into trouble with Amazon. My suggestion is to place a call to customer service at Amazon and describe your situation. If you have a confirmation at one price they should not be allowed to change the price.
  
 In general, I have found Amazon to be very pro consumer and helpful.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Well although I'm an adventurous tube roller, I'm feelin' I may stay on the cautionary side of this one.
> 
> Replacing internal parts would seem sure to void the warranty, and especially if done wrong can cause a bit of a chain reaction. Not to mention you'd likely need to de-solder at least the first time. It would seem in all likelyhood the team at Feliks Audio have already chosen the optimal sounding resistors and caps for the Euforia, and the sound can still be customized quite well with tubes. Not to say that these wouldn't make a large difference, but to me they seem risky and unnecessary.


 
  
 It should be obvious that I'm not advocating capacitors and resistors rolling but rather FA choice of those caps and resistors, which are listed very favourably.


----------



## DecentLevi

Interesting, looks like my invoice did already include shipping and VAT on the Euforia, so it would seem the Euforia may essentially have free shipping / VAT since these are included. It's also interesting because of all the overseas deliveries I've ever had, I can't ever recall being charged VAT. I've also never been charged for any sort of customs fees, and in fact we here in the US are only charged for taxes if ordering from within the same state, and if your state has a sales tax.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> It should be obvious that I'm not advocating capacitors and resistors rolling but rather FA choice of those caps and resistors, which are listed very favourably.


 
  
 Oh that's silly, I really thought you were interested in doing some deep underground internal modding to the Euforia... now that the word's out somebody else may end up giving it a whirl - though I also don't advise it


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Oh that's silly, I really thought you were interested in doing some deep underground internal modding to the Euforia... now that the word's out somebody else may end up giving it a whirl - though I also don't advise it


 
  
 There has not been any internal modding of Elise and never will be for Euforia here. Owners here are very sane and restraint. No one wants to kill their $1399 investment.


----------



## DavidA

untilthen said:


> There has not been any internal modding of Elise and never will be for Euforia here. Owners here are very sane and restraint. No one wants to kill their $1399 investment.


 
 Isn't the Euforia a modded Elise with better caps/resistors/wiring?  If so it might not be hard to upgrade the Elise, sort of how you upgrade a Bottlehead Crack or Mainline.  Not that I would do something like this but if I came across a Elise that was not working it might be a way to get it back working.


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> Isn't the Euforia a modded Elise with better caps/resistors/wiring?  If so it might not be hard to upgrade the Elise, sort of how you upgrade a Bottlehead Crack or Mainline.  Not that I would do something like this but if I came across a Elise that was not working it might be a way to get it back working.


 
 Bottlehead Crack you have the schematics. With Elise you don't have that. If you're an experience DIY tube amp builder, you probably could. Otherwise you're more likely to turn it into Malice.
  
 If you look at the internals of Euforia and Elise, they are quite different. There's probably circuitry changes beside better caps/resistors/wiring/teflon gold plated sockets, gold plated RCA sockets. Also there's real effort at implementing noise cancellation. Only Feliks Audio knows exactly what they have done with it and H1 is the only one who have heard it. The rest of us will just have to wait till we get our amps.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Believe me Howie has no shortage of funds. It's just explaining to the wife why the need for another tube amp !!! I guess he could say it's a new microwave.


 
 Exactly the situation here.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Just remembered to share what a positive experience it was a few days ago buying the Euforia. Feliks Audio sent me an invoice with an easy "pay now" button, absorbed the Paypal fee and didn't even charge me for shipping.
> 
> @HOWIE13 - wonder if you may go Euforia too? If funds are tight I was wondering if maybe you would want to sell your Espressivo, Elise and maybe a few tubes?
> _(I don't need it though)_


 
 I've never sold anything before on line and am a bit apprehensive.
 I'll give my wife time to forget I ever mentioned a new amp and then maybe it will just 'appear'
 Although she doesn't know anything about audio equipment she insists on dusting and cleaning around my equipment, often much to my annoyance, so she would notice something new.
 Anyway, I had my pal Ian round last night and we listened to lots music and he was enchanted by Elise. He owns a big Bosendorfer Imperial and is a fantastic pianist. He said Elise sounded just like his Bosendorfer. I loved that!


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> I saw there is a bigger transformer cover on Euforia compared to Elise is there in fact a bigger better or different transfo in there or just more breathing room ?


 
  
 Hi M...just more breathing room, plus even sturdier construction apparently. I did ask Lukasz in the early Elise days whether the trafo was by a famous Polish guy mentioned by a member - sorry can't remember either names! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - and he said no (crazily expensive no doubt!!), but that it was still of a high quality...which I don't doubt at all lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And good luck with raising funds from your sell-off...hope you do indeed manage to join us...would be great to have you on board...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!
  


decentlevi said:


> Oh that's silly, I really thought you were interested in doing some deep underground internal modding to the Euforia... now that the word's out somebody else may end up giving it a whirl - though I also don't advise it


 
  
 Honestly don't think there's _*anyone*_ out there lunatic enough to mess around with F-A's internals, DL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...as @UntilThen said, only _*sane*_ people hang out here!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








davida said:


> *Isn't the Euforia a modded Elise with better caps/resistors/wiring?*  If so it might not be hard to upgrade the Elise, sort of how you upgrade a Bottlehead Crack or Mainline.  Not that I would do something like this but if I came across a Elise that was not working it might be a way to get it back working.


 
  
 Hi DA...yes and _*no*_...Henryk Feliks has made certain radical changes that go way beyond my initial plea for simply better caps/resistors/wiring. What I assumed would be a relatively 'easy'(!) task obviously entailed _*far*_ more than mere 'mods' in the usual sense of the word....to the degree where he even had to revise his own Caddock resistor circuits, after further trialling by myself lol!...(requiring additional ventilation due to heat issues!).
  
 I imagine therefore you would need to be an extremely knowledgeable and experienced DIYer/repair man to even think of attempting anything like these alterations! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And while on the subject of resistors...coming back to your researches UT, it's clear from those results that Henryk chose wisely re. the Caddocks, and I'm only too glad he persevered with them rather than go for something else...it seems they were all unexpectedly surprised at the level of improvement from these  new circuits, and hence retained them..._*thank Heavens!!*_





...CHEERS! Henryk...


----------



## pctazhp

I'm still in Boston. Will fly home tomorrow the weather allowing. The only thing I have to type on is my phone and tablet. Hate typing on both. Amazing how judicious one can be in choice of words in such a situation )))
  
 Main thing I agree with about current discussion is FA really seems to know what they are doing)))


----------



## hypnos1

Hey guys....5683 views of the thread already...nice to see the interest in an amp that I - _at the moment_ - am the only one to possess. I think I can safely say there'll be a lot more interest still, once I have some company lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(have told Lukasz he'd better cancel all holidays and get the workshop running 24/7...still waiting for a reply to that one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 At this point I would also like to confirm once again that even though my prototype had a good few hours on the test bench, it continues to up its performance...and my tubes themselves should actually be fully burned-in by now. Which would seem to indicate (if further proof were needed!) that tube amps - or, rather, _certain_ amps - do indeed benefit from extended burn-in also...and when DIY aficionados say that even just certain _resistors_ need much longer time than often realised, it's fairly clear IMHO that _multiple_ new components (including wires) can only benefit from this extra time...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

As in the days of Elise launch so it will be with the Euforia.

Those who take the leap will not be disappointed. Especially when you get in on the preorder price.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> As in the days of Elise launch so it will be with the Euforia.
> 
> Those who take the leap will not be disappointed. Especially when you get in on the preorder price.


 
 Yeah and this time it's bound to be different than the launch of the Elise - now that most of the first 5-10 owners of the Euforia already have extensive tube knowledge and top-tier tubes from the onset... should be a shockingly good performance from the beginning, and getting even more impressive as time goes by. Though I for one, feel I already have all the tubes I'll ever need for either amps (including 2 more "EL" shipments).


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Yeah and this time it's bound to be different than the launch of the Elise - now that most of the first 5-10 owners of the Euforia already have extensive tube knowledge and top-tier tubes from the onset... should be a shockingly good performance from the beginning, and getting even more impressive as time goes by. Though I for one, feel I already have all the tubes I'll ever need for either amps (including 2 more "EL" shipments).


 
  
 Good point DL but I won't go nuts on tube rolling with Euforia. Only some of my preferred combinations will be used.
  
 Yup all those tubes ready from the onset is a big incentive to get Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> That's very plausible H1
> 
> I'll stick to the straight bottle EL12's for now. They sound great anyway.
> My coke bottle shaped EL11's have all been fine.


 
  
 Very wise H13, as it would now appear..._*yet another*_ ST EL12 (NOS) has failed, and just as I have done over on the Elise thread, I issue this *WARNING*...even if my own tube proves to work OK, *I CANNOT RECOMMEND USE OF THIS TUBE*...this number of failures already indicates it simply cannot be trusted, and given their high cost especially must, sadly, be given a wide berth...._*safety and reliability*_ must *always* come first when trying tubes different from stock configuration...and statements like DecentLevi's "To me it would not seem to be a problem with ST-shaped EL12s with Elise" are highly irresponsible and unacceptable until further trials have indeed proved alternative tubes to be safe, reliable and suitable.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Very wise H13, as it would now appear..._*yet another*_ ST EL12 (NOS) has failed, and just as I have done over on the Elise thread, I issue this *WARNING*...even if my own tube proves to work OK, *I CANNOT RECOMMEND USE OF THIS TUBE*...this number of failures already indicates it simply cannot be trusted, and given their high cost especially must, sadly, be given a wide berth...._*safety and reliability*_ must *always* come first when trying tubes different from stock...and statements like DL's "To me it would not seem to be a problem with ST-shaped EL12s with Elise" are highly irresponsible and unacceptable until further trials have indeed proved alternative tubes to be safe, reliable and suitable.


 
  
 Hi folks, do heed this warning. Don't want you to continue buying EL12 as it's expensive. I shared with H1 that my EL12 arrived and doesn't work.
  
 It arrived in a large shoe box. Inside the Telefunken EL12 look very new and NOS. The original box was folded flat and included inside. Only one of 2 EL12 I ordered, arrived as I bought from 2 different sellers. It is almost identical looking to the EL11.
  
 I power up EL12 and EL12N and only the channel with EL12N has sound. I swapped the tubes from left to right and the same thing happened. EL12 just produce no sound but it is definitely being heated up as it is warm to touch.
  
 Quite a mystery to me as both EL12 and EL12N are electrically identical and have the same pin out.


----------



## aqsw

Are the RFT EL12Ns OK?


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Are the RFT EL12Ns OK?


 
  
 Hi aqsw...for some strange reason, all reports so far on these straight-bottle versions - ie. *N* - are coming in with no problems mentioned at all...apart from some strange anomaly when used as powers with 6N23P drivers in DecentLevi's experiments with Elise(?!!).
 I still haven't tested them myself, but things are indeed looking hopeful at the moment for these newer versions of the tube...and they're MUCH cheaper and more readily available (for now lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi aqsw...for some strange reason, all reports so far on these straight-bottle versions - ie. *N* - are coming in with no problems mentioned at all...apart from some strange anomaly when used as powers with 6N23P drivers in DecentLevi's experiments with Elise(?!!).
> I still haven't tested them myself, but things are indeed looking hopeful at the moment for these newer versions of the tube...and they're MUCH cheaper and more readily available (for now lol!!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks H1. Those are the ones I ordered. Im not buying real expensive tubes anymore. My TS 5998s were terrible. My $10.00 Thomsons were better. I don't mind spending $60.00 on a pair of powers that people recommend though.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Are the RFT EL12Ns OK?


 
 The RFT EL12Ns are playing nicely in my Elise as power tubes for over a week. It will undergo longer term testing. It is the EL12 that is not singing.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> The RFT EL12Ns are playing nicely in my Elise as power tubes for over a week. It will undergo longer term testing. It is the EL12 that is not singing.


 
 Thanks to you too UT. I feel better now!!! They actually look pretty nice too.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Thanks to you too UT. I feel better now!!! They actually look pretty nice too.


 
  
 One of the nicest looking (straightish!) power tubes I've ever seen, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...much more so in the flesh than in pics even! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(now, if only it had _mesh_ plates!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....ENJOY!...


----------



## mordy

Does anybody have any experience with the straight glass EL11 tubes?


----------



## DecentLevi

Indeed that does seem perplexing why 3 of the 3 people_ (or even 4 of 4???)_ who have tried ST (bottle shaped) EL12's on the Elise have had issues with only one channel working. I will try those just once more since I've already got a single replacement EL12 on the way, then if not running smoothly then will scrap the EL12's on both Elise and Euforia, with a possible exception of RFT EL12's. Good point though it sure seems to be an anomaly how the RFT EL12's would only exhibit an imbalance when paired with certain miniature drivers, seeing how either of these drivers or powers were balanced when paired with other tubes.
  
 However the mere fact that all three pairs of the 'ST' EL12's had a channel issue on the Elise does not guarantee it's a compatibility issue between these and the Elise; as it could just as likely be down to fragile internals getting damaged in transit. Granted that's the same statement that has been called irresponsible recently, but to me it's more of a working-theory since really either side is plausible until proven otherwise; yet I can also see the 'cautionary' side since it would seem that on one side, it could be a compatibility problem with the Elise.
  
 I do believe I have become more responsible than not recently, as I've disbanded my multi-power tube setups including the 'Christmas Tree' one and given a stern warning against it on the original Elise thread, as well as advising against internal mods to either of these two marvel's of an amp. And as mentioned, I will do away with ST-shaped EL12's after the one final trial that's already incoming.


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi aqsw...for some strange reason, all reports so far on these straight-bottle versions - ie. *N* - are coming in with no problems mentioned at all...apart from some strange anomaly when used as powers with 6N23P drivers in DecentLevi's experiments with Elise(?!!).
> I still haven't tested them myself, but things are indeed looking hopeful at the moment for these newer versions of the tube...and they're MUCH cheaper and more readily available (for now lol!!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 H1 if you don't mind, what were you referring to?


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> H1 if you don't mind, what were you referring to?


 
  
 The straight-bottle EL12*N...*which is the newer version of the ST-shape EL12...


----------



## UntilThen

@HOWIE13  can you confirm whether your single Siemens EL12 is working? Did it sing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think you mention that your Valvo EL12 has no sound but that the Siemens EL12 works fine.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh, the straight EL12N's are newer, so they should be technically improved in some way


----------



## MIKELAP

What would be maximum amperage/channel in the Euforia in the 6AS7 slot  and in 6SN7slot  i know in one of my amps  for example in the 6sn7 driver slot its max 1A tubes i can use and in power tube slot 3A/channel .


----------



## aqsw

Just bought some K120s for my dac. I was told this will really open the sound stage compared to the 6550s.


Tube rolling with amp and dac can really screw your wallet up.


----------



## MIKELAP

What kind of finish are we talking about on the Euforia first of all is the case steel or aluminium if steel is it painted? if aluminum is it anodized.?  or is it same finish as Elise .


----------



## mordy

Hi Mikelap,
  
 As far as I know it is the total amps that should not exceed 6.8 amps in the Elise. This usually translates to maximum 0.9A for drivers and 2.5 for power tubes. Should be the same for the Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Just bought some K120s for my dac. I was told this will really open the sound stage compared to the 6550s.
> 
> 
> *Tube rolling with amp and dac can really screw your wallet up.*


 
  
 Should only be a small dent in your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do share how those KT120 sounds on your dac.


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  can you confirm whether your single Siemens EL12 is working? Did it sing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo @HOWIE13  where art thou? Answer pls.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  can you confirm whether your single Siemens EL12 is working? Did it sing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's correct, Siemens, coke bottle sings, but only in one channel of course as I only have one.
 It's weird these coke shaped tubes generally don't work. 
 No such problems with my RFT straight bottled EL12N tubes-they sing like yours -and how!


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> What kind of finish are we talking about on the Euforia first of all is the case steel or aluminium if steel is it painted? if aluminum is it anodized.?  or is it same finish as Elise .


 
  
 I think Euforia has the same finish as Elise except that the front facia plate is less matte. I'm hoping it's semi gloss. Elise is black power coated steel and it's done really well.
  
 Euforia comes with silver feet.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Yo @HOWIE13  where art thou? Answer pls.


 
 On holiday at my water hole in Spain for a week or two. Missing Elise, and only have intermittent internet-but there's the sun to compensate. I'll try to join the discussions whenever I can get a signal. Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> That's correct, Siemens, coke bottle sings, but only in one channel of course as I only have one.
> It's weird these coke shaped tubes generally don't work.
> No such problems with my RFT straight bottled EL12N tubes-they sing like yours -and how!


 
  
 Hmmm ..... so there is *ONE* Siemens EL12 that works in Elise in the power slot.
  
 I can't believe my Telefunken EL12 NOS is a dud. !!!!!!!! 
  
 We'll wait for @pctazhp  to tell us if his US$199 pair of Siemens EL12 works.
  
 Btw how does it sound? That is if you can articulate how one channel sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> On holiday at my water hole in Spain for a week or two. Missing Elise, and only have intermittent internet-but there's the sun to compensate. I'll try to join the discussions whenever I can get a signal. Cheers.


 
  
 So jealous. Drink lots of sangrias ok?


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Hmmm ..... so there is *ONE* Siemens EL12 that works in Elise in the power slot.
> 
> I can't believe my Telefunken EL12 NOS is a dud. !!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Well it was quite sweet and smooth, as I remember, but I didn't evaluate it as I had, and still have no other working EL12 to pair with it.
 Best thing will be when I get home I'll compare it with an EL12N and EL3N in its power slot, with the other slot being an EL12N,
 That will give some sort of comparison to sound we already know.
 Hope that makes sense.


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> What kind of finish are we talking about on the Euforia first of all is the case steel or aluminium if steel is it painted? if aluminum is it anodized.?  or is it same finish as Elise .


 
  
 Hi MIKELAP.
  
 The guys have already kindly answered your queries...and the finish is indeed basically the same as Elise - as UT says, powder coated steel for the case and trafo housing, but coated _*aluminium*_ for the (slightly larger) faceplate and _very_ heavy and substantial volume knob. The faceplate surface is indeed still matte, but feels a bit smoother than Elise's and doesn't hold the dust quite so readily lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Well it was quite sweet and smooth, as I remember, but I didn't evaluate it as I had, and still have no other working EL12 to pair with it.
> Best thing will be when I get home I'll compare it with an EL12N and EL3N in its power slot, with the other slot being an EL12N,
> That will give some sort of comparison to sound we already know.
> Hope that makes sense.


 
  
 Hi H13.
  
 It's quite possible that perhaps the EL12 will be fine partnering the 12N...could even complement each other very nicely?!
  
 Look forward to your findings...in the meantime, ENJOY the rest of your stay...you lucky thing!!...CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H13.
> 
> It's quite possible that perhaps the EL12 will be fine partnering the 12N...could even complement each other very nicely?!
> 
> Look forward to your findings...in the meantime, ENJOY the rest of your stay...you lucky thing!!...CHEERS!...


 
 Good thinking H1. Thanks.
 It was snowing here last week for the first time in 60 years apparently. Now basking in 86 degrees
 of sun. Not yet tempted to swim in the unheated open pool yet, though LOL.


----------



## pctazhp

My sumptuously beautiful Siemens EL12STs arrived this morning.
  
 First I want to say I'm keenly aware of the highly appropriate warning regarding the failure rate of these tube. I knew I was assuming full and exclusive responsibility for whatever might happen. I figured if my Elise blew I could donate it to the world famous Scottsdale Museum of Headphone Tube Amps - Then and Now, and suffer through the next few months waiting to be joined with the Euforia currently awaiting creation for me. And in deference to the economic value of my HD800S I am using my HD700 for testing.
  
 With fleet of hand, I quickly replaced the EL11s in the only pair of adapters I have right now, and paired them with my run-of-the-mill Sylvania 6SN7 drivers. I can happily report THERE IS SOUND 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have only been listening to them for a few minutes and realize that it requires at least 15 minutes of extensive listening to reach definitive conclusions, but I can report I really like what I'm hearing. More to follow


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  great news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sadly my Telefunken EL12 is pretty dead. I look at the top of the tube when the amp is powered on and it's not lighted. I'll donate that to the museum or get a refund.
  
 EL12N as power tubes sound very good with both Sylvania 6sn7wgt or EL11 as drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

Really sorry about the problem with your TFK EL12. Seems like it must have been defective when you got it and not a compatibility problem with Elise.
  
 I should report I'm not hearing any channel imbalance problem.


----------



## connieflyer

I hope this makes sense @pctazhp, but I hear you!


----------



## pctazhp

The Siemen EL12STs were expensive ($200) and I realize difficult if not impossible to find. The Sylvania's were cheap. HD700 is very reasonable in price: Of course, still much too early for any real assessment of the EL12s. But it just goes to reinforce in my mind that amazing results can be achieved from Elise without spending a fortune. Given the still reasonable price for the Euforia, it too should be exceptional. This is a fun time for us diehard F-A fanatics ))))


----------



## connieflyer

I always like the 700 as well and especially now that the price has come down. Like the 800 better, but more expensive, but in my opinion well worth it


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> The Siemen EL12STs were expensive ($200) and I realize difficult if not impossible to find. The Sylvania's were cheap. HD700 is very reasonable in price: Of course, still much too early for any real assessment of the EL12s. But it just goes to reinforce in my mind that amazing results can be achieved from Elise without spending a fortune. Given the still reasonable price for the Euforia, it too should be exceptional. This is a fun time for us diehard F-A fanatics ))))


 
 You got a second headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Love the headphone stand, very ....uh...industrial looking


----------



## connieflyer

Actually @DavidA the headphone stand started out as a plumbing project but he just kept adding fittings and was going around in circles so just gave up and using it as a stand now


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> You got a second headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I originally had the HD700 but sold it. The buyer decided to get back to speaker based system and gave me the 700 back so it would have a good home )))
  
 You have no idea of the grief I have taken for my headphone stand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit:  Ah))))) @connieflyer just proved my point ))))


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Actually @DavidA the headphone stand started out as a plumbing project but he just kept adding fittings and was going around in circles so just gave up and using it as a stand now


 

 Jealousy is not a pretty sight


----------



## connieflyer

That is why I have not won any beauty contests lately!


----------



## DavidA

Quote: 





connieflyer said:


> Actually @DavidA the headphone stand started out as a plumbing project but he just kept adding fittings and was going around in circles so just gave up and using it as a stand now


 
 I've seen these pipe stands before, a friend has one designed to hold 4 headphones but it has a much nicer wood base.  The only issue I have is the pipe does not support the headband well, too much of a point load.
  
@pctazhp, I actually think its a cool stand for the most parts, just the base and where the headphones rest is where I would make a change.  I would suggest a section of PVC/HDPE pipe covered with leather or a thick towel to provide a larger area where the headband padding can rest on, like this below:


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> I've seen these pipe stands before, a friend has one designed to hold 4 headphones but it has a much nicer wood base.  The only issue I have is the pipe does not support the headband well, too much of a point load.
> 
> @pctazhp, I actually think its a cool stand for the most parts, just the base and where the headphones rest is where I would make a change.  I would suggest a section of PVC/HDPE pipe covered with leather or a thick towel to provide a larger area where the headband padding can rest on, like this below:


 

 Very nice stand.
  
 At the risk of complete humiliation for revealing how much I paid for mine, but realizing there are people all over the world clamoring to get one:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gaming-Double-Headset-Headphone-Hanger-Stand-with-valve-Industrial-Stea/261904729191


----------



## mordy

For whatever it is worth, I found a seller that has two NOS pairs of the Siemens EL12 tubes. One pair is marked Siemens, but the seller labels both pairs Siemens/Telefunken so maybe they were made by TFK.....
 (The second pair measures ^118%)
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Matched-Pair-EL12-Siemens-Telefunken-NOS-75-76mA-72mA-100-6191-/321860211706?hash=item4af05d13fa:g:5BsAAOSw34FVCayU
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Matched-Pair-EL12-Siemens-Telefunken-88mA-72mA-100-NOS-SUPERSTRONG-6091-/321860211768?hash=item4af05d1438:g:Tb0AAOxyThVTYmhg
  





  
 Looks pretty professional:


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> My sumptuously beautiful Siemens EL12STs arrived this morning.
> 
> First I want to say I'm keenly aware of the highly appropriate warning regarding the failure rate of these tube. I knew I was assuming full and exclusive responsibility for whatever might happen. I figured if my Elise blew I could donate it to the world famous Scottsdale Museum of Headphone Tube Amps - Then and Now, and suffer through the next few months waiting to be joined with the Euforia currently awaiting creation for me. And in deference to the economic value of my HD800S I am using my HD700 for testing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct.
  
 I am SO glad those expensive Siemens EL12s are behaving themselves...it certainly would appear to be quite a lottery as to the reliability of these ST "Coke Bottle" 12s.
 This does indeed give me more hope regarding my RFT 12s, but this uncertainty definitely precludes safe general recommendation alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And so now, you must hurry along a second pair of adapters to get those EL11s in the driving seat...now that _will_ be interesting - to see just how the EL11/EL12 combo compares to EL11 + your best powers lol!...._*so hurry!!*_





...(I take it you've had _*no*_ buzzes/crackles/hums/hisses/dropouts/distortion at all from the 12s?...please be sure to listen out _especially_ _carefully_ for any of these early warning signs of possible trouble...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct.
> 
> I am SO glad those expensive Siemens EL12s are behaving themselves...it certainly would appear to be quite a lottery as to the reliability of these ST "Coke Bottle" 12s.
> This does indeed give me more hope regarding my RFT 12s, but this uncertainty definitely precludes safe general recommendation alas...
> ...


 

 H1. The adapters have been on order for a while, and hopefully will be here within a week. Not much I can do to rush that slow boat from China)))
  
 Absolutely no early signs of problems, but I'm paying attention. I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying what I'm hearing, even with my "lowly" Sylvania's. If the adapters don't get here soon, I'll next try the EL12s with my Sylvania Gold Brand 6SN7WGT pair.


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy. Looks like a couple of good finds. I understand there are lingering concerns about these tubes, and no one should try them without full appreciation of fact that they are not approved for Elise or Euforia and the documented failure problems. But so far I'm very happy with my pair of EL12ST's. Thanks for trying to help out those who might be interested.


----------



## pctazhp

One more point of clarification regarding my EL12s. I have not heard a pair of EL12N (straight glass). For all I know, the straight bottle versions could be better, and are certainly less expensive.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> For whatever it is worth, I found a seller that has two NOS pairs of the Siemens EL12 tubes. One pair is marked Siemens, but the seller labels both pairs Siemens/Telefunken so maybe they were made by TFK.....
> (The second pair measures ^118%)
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Matched-Pair-EL12-Siemens-Telefunken-NOS-75-76mA-72mA-100-6191-/321860211706?hash=item4af05d13fa:g:5BsAAOSw34FVCayU
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy.
  
 In this pair, the right tube definitely has more the "look" of a TFK, but I suspect it's going to be very difficult indeed to determine "true" Siemens factory examples...any clues @Oskari? I must admit, I always thought the two factories quite separate, rather than a "Siemens/Telefunken" duo concern lol!...but this is tubeland, no?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> One more point of clarification regarding my EL12s. I have not heard a pair of EL12N (straight glass). For all I know, the straight bottle versions could be better, and are certainly less expensive.


 
  
@UntilThen recently found a review on these 12s, and apparently the straight 12Ns came out the _worst_, albeit still very good lol! And from the price differential and buying activity on German ebay, these factors would certainly appear to confirm them to be _generally_ held views IMHO...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and so let battle commence...(at one's own risk!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  I can hear your Siemens EL12 from Australia. 
  
 That is a very nice picture you've taken of Elise with the headphones. Your photography skills are right up there or you must have gotten a better SLR. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course @DavidA 's picture is even better.
  
 You have one more assignment. Buy a pair EL12N and compare it with the EL12. The review33 site guys claim the EL12N is the worst sounding of the EL12s but still better sounding than NOS EL34. They were listening to some vintage Siemens tube amps though.


----------



## mordy

Just received my first EL12 tube. It looks very similar to this one but has no markings on the glass (except for some grey paint) and on the tube base, with one exception:
  




  
 On the bottom next to the pins it says   ul
                                                               f
 in small white letters.
  
 The top is opaque without markings but otherwise same looking as this picture:
  




  
 The tube looks old and the pins were corroded, but when I cleaned them using my hi-tech device (a little pen knife, gently scraping the pins), they came out nicely shining, gold plated.
  
 Sold to me as a Telefunken EL12, measuring 96% 30-40 years ago (!).
  
  
  
 Haven't received other tubes and the adapters yet, so just have to wait.
  
 Just looked in this chart for TFK codes:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm
  
 ul Sept 1938? If this is true I really got a rarity....


----------



## UntilThen

@mordy  that listing of the EL12s is the same seller I once bought an ECC31 from. I will recommend him.
  
 The seller that Pct bought his Siemens EL12 from (euroklang) is the seller I bought my TFK EL11 from. He has quite a big range of EL12s now. Both Valvo and Telefunken. His tubes are expensive but are in great condition. Some NOS, other nearly new and he stated that its tested on his German tube tester.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Just received my first EL12 tube. It looks very similar to this one but has no markings on the glass (except for some grey paint) and on the tube base, with one exception:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo mordy....definitely(?!) looks like a TFK lol!  Let's hope you too have more luck with yours...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @pctazhp...have just had an interesting thought - Siemens C3g driving Siemens EL12...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp  I can hear your Siemens EL12 from Australia.
> 
> That is a very nice picture you've taken of Elise with the headphones. Your photography skills are right up there or you must have gotten a better SLR.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks UT for your nice words ))) But you are a relentless task manager. I'll get right on it )))))


----------



## Spork67

connieflyer said:


> That is why I have not won any beauty contests lately!


 
 Lately?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @pctazhp...have just had an interesting thought - Siemens C3g driving Siemens EL12...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that will be dynamite. See his headphone stand. It looks like the old western movie where you plunge the handle to detonate da bomb.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I think that will be dynamite. See his headphone stand. It looks like the old western movie where you plunge the handle to detonate da bomb.


 

 As we frequently say, so many tubes so little time))) c3g is now on my list. Will soon be trying if the bomb doesn't detonate!!!


----------



## Frederick Rea

pctazhp said:


> The Siemen EL12STs were expensive ($200) and I realize difficult if not impossible to find. The Sylvania's were cheap. HD700 is very reasonable in price: Of course, still much too early for any real assessment of the EL12s. But it just goes to reinforce in my mind that amazing results can be achieved from Elise without spending a fortune. Given the still reasonable price for the Euforia, it too should be exceptional. This is a fun time for us diehard* F-A fanatics *))))


 
 YES I AM !!!!!!!!


----------



## Frederick Rea

Mastering
 Something to help us to understand recordings:
 https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/what-is-mastering/


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Things have gotten serious here in Scottsdale. Put c3gs in the driver seat and recalled HD800S back into service. Your suggestion was great. I'm tempted to say it is explosive and pure dynamite, with color reminiscent of the Sydney Opera House all lit up at night. But that might be a little hypocritical )))
  
 What I will say is very clean and clear, but at the same time highly musical. Detail with emotion. What more can anyone ask??? I strongly suspect that EL12-ST is benefiting from burn-in, so I'll stay at it.
  
 Well, I went to the trouble to find this picture, so I'll go ahead and post it:


----------



## mordy

The crowd outside the Opera House is waiting for the introduction of the Euforia:


----------



## UntilThen

Pct it was H1's suggestion to use C3g and EL12. So you should show him the London Bridge.


----------



## Spork67




----------



## MIKELAP

Lazy tonight save me some reading , is there a direct comparaison between Euforia and Elise in the threads  or a general sound signature for that matter of the Euforia yet .


----------



## mordy

Nobody on this forum has been able to do it yet......There is only one Euforia delivered so far, and hypnos1 had to give up his Elise to get it.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Nobody on this forum has been able to do it yet......There is only one Euforia delivered so far, and hypnos1 had to give up his Elise to get it.


 
 OK thanks, you have an Elise mordy what's your take on its sound signature .Thanks


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Pct it was H1's suggestion to use C3g and EL12. So you should show him the London Bridge.


 

 I'll just dedicate this song especially to @hypnos1 for his listening enjoyment:


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I must admit, I always thought the two factories quite separate, rather than a "Siemens/Telefunken" duo concern lol!...but this is tubeland, no?!! :rolleyes: :wink_face: ...




There was a connection. Telefunken was a joint venture of Siemens & Halske and AEG between 1903 and 1941, and after that a subsidiary of AEG until 1967 when the two merged.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> For whatever it is worth, I found a seller that has two NOS pairs of the Siemens EL12 tubes. One pair is marked Siemens, but the seller labels both pairs Siemens/Telefunken so maybe they were made by TFK.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Matched-Pair-EL12-Siemens-Telefunken-NOS-75-76mA-72mA-100-6191-/321860211706




There is another photo there which shows the following code.

D+
MYB

That particular tube was made by Valvo in Hamburg in Dec 53.

Note the code's similarity to pctazhp's EL12s (if I'm not mistaken) but his were made by Loewe-Opta (in Berlin, I believe).




oskari said:


> GF
> MYN
> 
> Made by Loewe-Opta in June 1954.


----------



## UntilThen

mikelap said:


> OK thanks, you have an Elise mordy what's your take on its sound signature .Thanks


 
  
 Elise has fast transient response, superb high frequency extension, caressing mids, tight and controlled bass, linear FR, great dynamics, just a touch of warm and lushness, good stage size and an upbeat tempo ... all the attributes of an accomplished headphone tube amp.
  
 It might be cliche but this is all the amp you will ever need with your HD800 or T1.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. Things have gotten serious here in Scottsdale. Put c3gs in the driver seat and recalled HD800S back into service. Your suggestion was great. I'm tempted to say it is explosive and pure dynamite, with color reminiscent of the Sydney Opera House all lit up at night. But that might be a little hypocritical )))


 
  
 You have to let your feelings flow. If you say that listening to the new kid on the block aka Siemens EL12, cause your arm's hairs to stand on ends, I'll believe you too. 
  
 Now how about we trade my pure silent Telefunken EL12 for your Siemens EL12, plus a box of chocolates?


----------



## hypnos1

mikelap said:


> Lazy tonight save me some reading , is there a direct comparaison between Euforia and Elise in the threads  or a general sound signature for that matter of the Euforia yet .


 
  
 Hi MIKELAP.
  
 As mordy said, unfortunately I wasn't able to compare side-by-side, so my own findings have had to be from memory of Elise's sound. But luckily, the differences are not in fact just minor - they cover pretty well all aspects of performance. I gave a brief impression on post#1 here, and a bit more on page 4, post#47. Hopefully this gives you some idea of Euforia's qualities...I did in fact give even earlier impressions recently over at the Elise "Impressions" thread, before starting this one.
  
 There have been several separate reviews made by folks here on Elise, apart from thread impressions, which should minimise the search lol!...(our threads have indeed been somewhat "busy" and can certainly entail _many_ (happy?!) hours of ploughing through!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). There is also a good review over at headfonics : http://headfonics.com/2016/12/the-elise-by-feliks-audio/
 Again, hopefully these should give you a very good idea of what Elise is about...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You have to let your feelings flow. If you say that listening to the new kid on the block aka Siemens EL12, cause your arm's hairs to stand on ends, I'll believe you too.
> 
> Now how about we trade my pure silent Telefunken EL12 for your Siemens EL12, plus a box of chocolates?


 

 Let's see. How do I put this delicately??? At my age, very little on its own is standing on ends, but perhaps with enough burn-in EL12 may be my new wonder drug.
  
 As for your offer, I'm afraid I will have to pass because:


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> There is another photo there which shows the following code.
> 
> D+
> MYB
> ...


 
  
 Thanks O for your reply to my earlier query...which does seem to throw confusion on historic Siemens vs Telefunken quality debates lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(unless, once again, it simply comes down to early vs later tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And now the picture becomes even murkier with Valvo in the mix re. the EL12...viz. the noticeable difference in sound between the Black Glass Valvo EL11 (Philips _oval_ plate design) and the Telefunken _round_ plate design EL11, as I've mentioned previously (ad nauseum!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I would love to know whether the _grey_ glass Valvo has the round plate, in line with TFK.
 I suspect the TFK, Siemens, RFT and Valvo ST12s could well be similar, but will need to be verified by anyone who may have a Valvo (by trying to determine the plate shape, of course...).
  
 Aaahh the endless fun with these old bringers of joy lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks O for your reply to my earlier query...which does seem to throw confusion on historic Siemens vs Telefunken quality debates lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 H1. I can never pass up a good opportunity to add to confusion and chaos ))))
  
 My Siemens EL12s have clear glass on top, so I can peak in with aid of the flashlight app on my Galaxy S7. Unfortunately, the metal rectangle thing at the top is wider than on my EL11s and it is a little more difficult to see the plate (anode ???). To add to the confusion, from what I can see the plate is ROUND (edit) BUT I also see crimps. Hope this makes everything clear as mud or Yorkshire pudding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As a brief update on your recommended c3g/EL12 combo, I am really loving it. As I said earlier it is very clean. A wonderfully laid out soundstage with vocals and instruments well situated and full sounding. Bass is strong, but the entire FR is very good and well integrated. And as I also said, it is emotionally quite engaging. Again, I'm at a point where it is difficult to imagine anything better, but I'm confident Euforia will have plenty of pleasant surprises for me.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> H1. I can never pass up a good opportunity to add to confusion and chaos ))))
> 
> My Siemens EL12s have clear glass on top, so I can peak in with aid of the flashlight app on my Galaxy S7. Unfortunately, the metal rectangle thing at the top is wider than on my EL11s and it is a little more difficult to see the plate (anode ???). To add to the confusion, from what I can see the plate is ROUND (edit) BUT I also see crimps. Hope this makes everything clear as mud or Yorkshire pudding
> 
> ...


 
  
 V_eeee_ry interesting, pct...thanks for the update...but _*not*_ the added confusion lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Yes indeed, the top and bottom micas are much bigger than in the EL11, plus are round instead of rectangular (on my 11s, anyway!). And I too can _just_ see the folded section of the anode 'plate', but cannot really tell if it's round or oval...usually, there's no mistaking the oval shape, so I would guess they are indeed _round_ lol! The only _real_ way to tell, of course, is to...._you know what!!!_








...but I value our friendship far too much to even go there LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 My RFTs are presumably more like your own tubes, given the clear tops...but _who knows?!!_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...   :
  

  

  

  
 The left is a used (testing 100%) 1951 tube, costing me £45 (incl. shipping). The right a NOS (testing over 100%) 1953, costing me just £30 (incl. shipping!...caught ebay napping, lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 All I've got to do now is hope that they actually _work_ LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Am so glad you're liking the combo...had a feeling you just might - especially as you have the HD800*s*, with the 'tamed' treble!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now, I'm even _more_ keen to hear how this combo compares when you have your EL11s in the driving seat...
  
 ps. London Bridge _still_ standing, the last time I heard! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> My RFTs are presumably more like your own tubes, given the clear tops...but _who knows?!!_...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 H1, as far as I can tell, my pitch black silent Telefunken EL12's top looks exactly like yours.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> As a brief update on your recommended c3g/EL12 combo, I am really loving it. As I said earlier it is very clean. A wonderfully laid out soundstage with vocals and instruments well situated and full sounding. Bass is strong, but the entire FR is very good and well integrated. And as I also said, it is emotionally quite engaging. Again, *I'm at a point where it is difficult to imagine anything better,* but I'm confident Euforia will have plenty of pleasant surprises for me.


 
  
 Strangely this is how I felt with EL11 and EL12N in Elise, listening with T1.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Strangely this is how I felt with EL11 and EL12N in Elise, listening with T1.


 

 I know this is pointless thinking on my part, but I strongly suspect the vast majority of T1 and HD800 owners don't come close to enjoying these phones the way we do. I used to recommend Elise on the HD800S thread from time to time, but I was a voice crying in the wilderness.
  
 Do you remember back when we used to frequently refer to ourselves as the "lucky ones"?


----------



## connieflyer

I do remember the quote lucky ones quote but then I thought you were referring to something else, but now I realize you are talking about an amplifier


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I do remember the quote lucky ones quote but then I thought you were referring to something else, but now I realize you are talking about an amplifier


 

 I guess it could also apply to us Old Geezers who can still find our kitchens and manage to brew a pot of coffee in the morning, or at least by sundown. Oh, sorry. I forgot you are a Young Whipper Snapper


----------



## connieflyer

You are correct sir has a young whippersnapper soon you will realize that status because after spending time as an old geezer you are reborn into a young whippersnapper. You will love it there are so many things that you forgot that you really didn't need to know to begin with leave you a lot more time to listen to your headphones for those of you that are fortunate enough to have an amplifier


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I know this is pointless thinking on my part, but I strongly suspect the vast majority of T1 and HD800 owners don't come close to enjoying these phones the way we do. I used to recommend Elise on the HD800S thread from time to time, but I was a voice crying in the wilderness.
> 
> Do you remember back when we used to frequently refer to ourselves as the "lucky ones"?


 
  
 I thought you're talking about Australia the lucky country. Today is Australia Day and I'll be giving a speech.... to the seagulls.


----------



## connieflyer

I hope it is a good speech would hate to think that you would lay an egg


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I hope it is a good speech would hate to think that you would lay an egg


 

 You just gave me a stomach ache from laughing so hard. A special award of Laugh of the Month has just been commissioned in your honor.
  
 And UT:  Where or where are my manners? I wish you a very happy Australia Day. Please take a picture of the egg for us to share in your celebration.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, as far as I can tell, my pitch black silent Telefunken EL12's top looks exactly like yours.


 
  
 Your plight has saddened me no end, UT...so if you don't intend returning your tube, please let me know - I will gladly pay postage to give a post-mortem...and who knows?...could _possibly_ exhume and revive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...(if removing the base doesn't ensure demise, that is lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


untilthen said:


> Strangely this is how I felt with EL11 and EL12N in Elise, listening with T1.


 
  
 My goodness, UT...yourself and @pctazhp are in for _such_ a surprise when you hear them in Euforia, I doubt your respective poor tickers will be able to handle it LOL!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and I don't mean your _watches!!_





)....*you have been warned!!*





...


----------



## pctazhp

I just thought of something. I realize my brain is scrambled eggs (intentional reference to "egg") due to 299 days a year of glorious Scottsdale sunshine, but it seems to me Australia Day occurs about once a week


----------



## connieflyer

You can never have too much sunshine or Australia days. Or is it daze?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> You can never have too much sunshine or Australia days. Or is it daze?


 

 I certainly hope out of control laughter reduces belly fat !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Your plight has saddened me no end, UT...so if you don't intend returning your tube, please let me know - I will gladly pay postage to give a post-mortem...and who knows?...could _possibly_ exhume and revive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think this thread will explode when all the Euforias are despatch to their owners. I had better start writing my speech.
  
 'Fourscore and twenty years ago... a meteorite fell from the sky... and Euforia was born' 
  
  
 No way I'm going to smash my silent Telefunken EL12. I'll write to Yvonne - that's the sweet German girl name who sold me the tube. She's so happy that her tube is going to Australia. I think it will break her heart when I tell her it's not singing. Should I tell her or shouldn't I tell her?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I think this thread will explode when all the Euforias are despatch to their owners. I had better start writing my speech.
> 
> 'Fourscore and twenty years ago... a meteorite fell from the sky... and Euforia was born'
> 
> ...


 

 This thread is already exploding, and @hynos1 just keeps torturing us with letting us know all we are missing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I vote you tell her, but say you had bought it as surprise present for @connieflyer. Mention his name and surely you will have her moving heaven, earth and your lawn to please you.
  
 Edit:  As for speech, please no more eggs


----------



## connieflyer

If she can move Heaven and Earth and your lawn please have her stop by and see me I could use a little landscape help


----------



## UntilThen

Look at my beautiful Telefunken EL12. So sad it's not singing.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Look at my beautiful Telefunken EL12. So sad it's not singing.


 
 Cosmetics is 75% of importance. 20% is bragging about it here. So you are only missing 5% if you just tell us it suddenly has come to life and sounds better than Euforia introduction concert at Sydney Opera House


----------



## connieflyer

@untilthen perhaps if you place that tube in your amplifier it would work better, just saying, it is nice looking though


----------



## aqsw

I sold my Liquid Carbon to a young fellow. He paid me and I told him I would not be able to get it out till the next afternoon, as I was looking after my grandson.
 He got back to me immediately, and wanted to know how old I was. I told him old guys love music too, and  actually have been listening to it alot longer than he has!
 He got a kick out of that.


----------



## pctazhp

Just heard sad news that Mary Tyler Moore has died. She is one of the very few celebrities whose passing could make me feel I had lost an old friend.


----------



## connieflyer

Old people rule!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Old people rule!


 

 To paraphrase Rex Harrison, why can't everyone else be like us ????


----------



## connieflyer

I saw that she had died. I believe she had type 1 diabetes and know that she had been suffering for quite awhile from it. Very fun actress. From the old school that didn't mix acting and politics. Some of these people have passed in the last couple of years it makes me feel almost like I'm one of the last people on earth, except for those people here on head-fi of course


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I saw that she had died. I believe she had type 1 diabetes and know that she had been suffering for quite awhile from it. Very fun actress. From the old school that didn't mix acting and politics. Some of these people have passed in the last couple of years *it makes me feel almost like I'm one of the last people on earth, except for those people here on head-fi of course*


 

 You are.
  
 She did have type 1 and had also struggled with addiction. It is sad. She brought so much laughter to so many of us. And totally agree with you about old school and not mixing acting with politics. She was the definition of "class".


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I think this thread will explode when all the Euforias are despatch to their owners. I had better start writing my speech.
> 
> 'Fourscore and twenty years ago... a meteorite fell from the sky... and Euforia was born'
> 
> ...


 
  
 First, UT...RIP MaryTM...a sweet gal indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  
 As for yourself, I was going to recommend you return your sad tube with an invite to meet her at the Oktober Bier Fest in Munich...but then I realise you already have a wonderful lady. Ah well, can't win 'em all alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But it might indeed be worth seeing what she has to say about said, sad tube...if no joy, just remember me, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> 'Fourscore and twenty years ago... a meteorite fell from the sky... and Euforia was born'


 
 Wouldn't that be five score years ago? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm off fishing for the long weekend.
 No doubt I'll have 50 odd pages of new posts to catch up on in the various FA threads when I get back.
 Take care guys.


----------



## aqsw

7 more sleeps and I'm off to Arizona. I have a Honda Gold Wing waiting for me. Lauglin casinos 5 miles away(I love buffets) I need something to get my mind off of the Euforia!!!


----------



## aqsw

Here's the song that says it all about the love of my life, the mother of my children, and my best friend. Not all the lyrics relate to our
 relationship, but you will get the jist!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAeExt-yg4


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> @untilthen perhaps if you place that tube in your amplifier it would work better, just saying, it is nice looking though


 
  
 Dang all this while I thought my turntable needs a tube.


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> 7 more sleeps and I'm off to Arizona. I have a Honda Gold Wing waiting for me. Lauglin casinos 5 miles away(I love buffets) I need something to get my mind off of the Euforia!!!


 

 Feel free to drop that Gold Wing off here in Scottsdale when you are through with it))) And if you hit the jackpot, you can also drop off a wad of cash along with the GA


----------



## aqsw

pctazhp said:


> Feel free to drop that Gold Wing off here in Scottsdale when you are through with it))) And if you hit the jackpot, you can also drop off a wad of cash along with the GA


 
 Sorry, The Goldwing is my brother in laws, and I rarely gamble, so a jackpot isn't going to happen. You're  SOOL.


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> Wouldn't that be five score years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Doesn't sound as nice when you say five score years ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is how you should fish.


----------



## connieflyer

Let you in on an artist you may not have heard.


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, love the music recommendations


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Is this the same guy?


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Just curious if you concur with me on the date code (?) on this TFK EL12 tube that only has this marking and nothing else:
  
 (image missing)
  
 BTW, a friend of mine showed me how you can use the camera on your cell phone as a magnifying glass - useful when looking at tube markings....
  
  
 (image missing)
  
  
 (image missing)


----------



## pctazhp

I woke up this morning and checked in here. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something seems a little fishy to me about recent developments on this thread.


----------



## connieflyer

The main thing is you did wake up this morning and now that you're looking around and smelling fish I have a feeling that your sensory overload from the Elise is starting to show


----------



## connieflyer

Maybe this will help you wake up this morning


----------



## DavidA

@connieflyer, great suggestion, like this one also:

 Love the acoustic guitars on my new Ypsilon R1 build


----------



## connieflyer

@DavidA I have been listening to this group for quite awhile now and find there style and arrangements very enjoyable.


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## DavidA

Which albums do you recommend?  Went on Amazon and there are quite a few albums there.
 And thanks for getting me out of a funk this morning, was just listening to old 80's stuff like Foreigner, Pablo Cruise, Human League, Santana, Scandal, Joan Jett and Steve Miller Band.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Maybe this will help you wake up this morning





 This will do it quite nicely. It boggles my mind wondering how you find such great music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I actually just woke up. Anything you may have read that I posted anywhere earlier this morning was done in my sleep


----------



## pctazhp

In my morning stupor this is the best I could come up with. Recommended for funks


----------



## DavidA

Going through my bottle collection:

  
 Came up with these to enjoy with the music:

 For me                                                                                          For Sophia


----------



## pctazhp

This is my morning cuisine:


----------



## pctazhp

I received such overwhelming acclamation for my first Hank Marvin video, I'll post a second one.


----------



## pctazhp

Oh, you guys are no fun this morning. I'm going back to sleep


----------



## connieflyer

Of course we are fun, just got back from Costco had to gas up and it was very cold with the wind blowing, the snow, pooooorr me!


----------



## connieflyer

@DavidA I would recommend you just listen to the various tunes on amazon or where ever available, and choose the ones with the most songs you like. They are a very talented group.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Of course we are fun, just got back from Costco had to gas up and it was very cold with the wind blowing, the snow, pooooorr me!


 
 I'll be back later today if I wake up. I get so tired of this sleep walking ((((
  
 In the meantime, CF, I feel your pain.


----------



## DavidA

Quote: 





pctazhp said:


> This is my morning cuisine:


 
 To be fair, I'm going to bed soon so my cusine is a little different:

 Along with the change from Tequila Sunrise to Asahi beer
  
  


connieflyer said:


> @DavidA I would recommend you just listen to the various tunes on amazon or where ever available, and choose the ones with the most songs you like. They are a very talented group.


 
 some of the albums don't have the preview so I'm going to go on YouTube to check them out but that is a lot of albums they have.
  
 PS: I had to turn on the AC, a little muggy here and Sophia is quite hot, in body temp, lol.


----------



## connieflyer

@DavidA That was a nasty thing to say.  However the mental image is now going to help me warm up!  They are prolific, and youtube is a great way to sample them. That is usually the way I do it, find music I mean!  I had to add that or @pctazhp would surely jump all over me.


----------



## connieflyer

Anyone familiar with the Darkvoice 336 SE amp or the Little Dot 3 or 4?  Looking for something for a friend that can not at this point afford to get an Elise or Euforia. Massdrop has the Little dot for about $250 am considering getting one to use until my Euforia comes in, and then give it to my friend.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Anyone familiar with the Darkvoice 336 SE amp or the Little Dot 3 or 4?  Looking for something for a friend that can not at this point afford to get an Elise or Euforia.


 
 I liked the LD 1+ that a friend had but it had different op-amps and tubes from the stock config but total cost was still under $200 IIRC, and being a hybrid a little more flexible with the headphones it can drive.  Recommending this would be based on if the person has high impedance headphones and some planars since it would pair better with both types.
  
 The DV 336 is like a pre-built BH Crack without the modding aspects, its quite good but haven't spent much time with one to make a good judgement on them.
  
 Not much experience with LD Mk3 but its a slightly warmer amp than the Valhalla2 from my memory.  Never heard the Mk4.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks @DavidA that helps alot.  He just got the  Senn 700 and is using it out of his Iphone or Ipad, he heard my 800 and Elise and decided to get the 700 to start with and wants an amp but limited funds for now.  I will have to check the used forums here also, did not think of that before.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Thanks @DavidA that helps alot.  He just got the  Senn 700 and is using it out of his Iphone or Ipad, he heard my 800 and Elise and decided to get the 700 to start with and wants an amp but limited funds for now.  I will have to check the used forums here also, did not think of that before.


 
 For the HD-700 I would go with a Project Solstice, single tube so a lot less to worry about and a much more flexible amp than the LD series,  If they can go up in price then the Ember (many old Ember owners here) or if they don't want to deal with tubes then the Polaris


----------



## connieflyer

I started out with an Ember, it was pretty good.


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 My introduction to tube amps was the Little Dot MKIII, and I have many fond memories of it. (The MKIV is just a modded edition of the MKIII). The Mass Drop price is now $220 + shipping - a lot of enjoyment for a low price.
  
 You can greatly increase the performance of it by getting the 6HM5 Ei drivers, and then get adapters for the power tubes and buy any inexpensive 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks Mordy, My new amp won't be shipping till near the end of the month and then transit so could use something for a while.  There is a Mk1 amp used here for sale, looking at that to


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Anyone familiar with the Darkvoice 336 SE amp or the Little Dot 3 or 4?  Looking for something for a friend that can not at this point afford to get an Elise or Euforia. Massdrop has the Little dot for about $250 am considering getting one to use until my Euforia comes in, and then give it to my friend.


 

 I have a lightly used LD MKIV SE I would sell for $250 plus shipping. It would come with original power tubes but would need drivers. If anyone were interested I'd sell my HD700 for $250. Valhalla 2 is also available.  For my wife I would consider an offer of ........ oh, I better back off on that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Honestly, it's been so long since I've listened to the LD I can't comment on it.
  
 Edit:  My Elise is available for $450 plus shipping. No tubes. Might also consider selling my complete collection of Grape-Nuts boxes.


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp I just sent an email to purchase the little dot 1 that was for sale, will let you know.  If not sale I might be interested in the wife for sure. Will travel!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp I just sent an email to purchase the little dot 1 that was for sale, will let you know.  If not sale I might be interested in the wife for sure. Will travel!


 

 Wife doesn't come with any warranties, but she does own her own pair of Monk 5 earbuds.


----------



## connieflyer

Mine didn't come with a warranty either but I overlooked that for the greater good of humanity


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Anyone familiar with the Darkvoice 336 SE amp or the Little Dot 3 or 4?  Looking for something for a friend that can not at this point afford to get an Elise or Euforia. Massdrop has the Little dot for about $250 am considering getting one to use until my Euforia comes in, and then give it to my friend.


 
  
 Have you been missing my posts on Darkvoice 336 se plus pictures?


----------



## DavidA

Lily doesn't come with a warranty either but she does have some audio gear: HD-700, HD-650, K7XX, Momentum on-ear and my first Ypsilon build, plus a Aune T1 MK2, Solstice, WA7d and G-109.  Unfortunately she is moving to Korea in a few days.


----------



## connieflyer

Can I go with her,please???


----------



## UntilThen

You can't. You don't eat sushi.


----------



## connieflyer

With that kind of a package, the electronics of course, I can learn!


----------



## DavidA

CF, you are better qualified than me to move to Korea, its too cold for me.


----------



## connieflyer

I have a feeling Lily may object!  I am used to snow, just don't like it!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Edit:  My Elise is available for $450 plus shipping. No tubes.


 
  
 Wow that's a bargain considering how much Elise is selling for now new. You could have given them the stock tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Have you been missing my posts on Darkvoice 336 se plus pictures?


 
  
 I haven't been missing them much. But occasionally a wave of sadness sweeps over me, and I realize how much I have been missing you DV posts. I go back, find them and re-read and then I feel much better.


----------



## connieflyer

What are guy you would think someone that thought that much about the posts of another person would never ever leave this country. But if he sells me his amp part of him will still be here


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> What are guy you would think someone that thought that much about the posts of another person would never ever leave this country. But if he sells me his amp part of him will still be here


 

 I Left My Heart in San Francisco and dna samples are scattered around the country, so I'm covered on that. But amp is particularly sweet and sensitive. I know you can provide it a good home as long as you promise not to let Connor treat it as a chew toy.
  
 Edit:  Oh forgot. Wife is begging me to sell her to you, but I'm mean and told her she is stuck with me.


----------



## connieflyer

Why did she miss out on something really wild. Well maybe the aircraft flight out here would have been. Connor will guard it with his life. He loves music, if I turn the stereo on it comes in and just lays down on the floor and listens goes to sleep.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm confused. Who is selling what amp to whom and when is this happening and where???


----------



## connieflyer

You really have to pay attention more this is been going on for weeks and weeks on the thread where were you?


----------



## UntilThen

I've been practising my singing. Like Bruce, I believe I'm more than just an actor.


----------



## connieflyer

So that is what that noise is that Connor keeps howling with!


----------



## UntilThen

Of course since today is Chinese New Year, there needs to be a chinese song with some spectacular figure skating. Singer is Tong Li btw.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm confused. Who is selling what amp to whom and when is this happening and where???


 

 I'm selling CF my wife. He is moving to Korea with her, where he wrongfully believes polygamy is legal, and plans to marry my wife and Lily in a single ceremony. CF wants someone with a British accent to perform the ceremony so H1 is applying on line to become an ordained minister in the Church of What's Happening Now.
  
 You and I are moving to Tibet where we will establish a monastery where we will spend the rest of our natural born days ummmmmming or Doodle-Doing, unless we are abducted by aliens in Flying Saucers. If you want, we can build a controlled environment structure filled with seagulls to whom you can give speeches to whenever you want.
  
 Everyone else is frantically looking for other threads on HeadFi where they can start hanging out.
  
 I hope that clears it all up for you.
  
 Oh, and since you obviously are not paying attention, I should tell you that my collection of Grape-Nuts boxes is for sale.


----------



## connieflyer

NOW I know how you won all your cases! What a riot!  I thought I was the only crazy one here! This is a historic post, I hope that @DavidA tells Lily she won't be alone for long! You my friend have just hit nutcase of the year award, and I so wanted it myself! I only hope that Lily and your wife hit it off well, as I a plan on starting a new temple in honor of all those former head-fi members that are fleeing for their lives!  It shall be called Until the Lawyer meets the Brit in the great sphere of nothingness I am looking for folks to step up with donations, it will also have a wall around it to protect the rest of the world from us!


----------



## UntilThen

Tibet? Let's do it. In the footsteps of Sir Edmund Hillary. Don't forget to bring the T1.


----------



## connieflyer

That's a coool picture! Brrrr,,


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> That's a l *coool *picture! Brrrr,,


 
 Just you and me here this morning, CF.


----------



## connieflyer

You may be correct that it's just you and I but I'm not so sure about you. Of course I'm probably not the first person to say that. Good morning by the way


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> You may be correct that it's just you and I but I'm not so sure about you. Of course I'm probably not the first person to say that. Good morning by the way


 

 So far this morning my home is untouched by human hands. Just me and the zombies and they already said good morning. I know Connor has already greeted you, but I'll be the second living creature to say good morning ))))


----------



## connieflyer

I hope the zombies are friendly nothing like not getting coffee and having a zombie guarding the coffee pot. Well I'm going to have to sign up for a bit Connors dancing back and forth he wants to go for a walk this morning. I've been putting it off all morning with my knee is bugging me but oh well still dark and that's a good thing people won't see me kind of weave up and down the road with my bad knee take care and talk with you later


----------



## DavidA

Morning guys, just got home from the Chinese/Korean new year parties, hanging a little but will try to stick with both of you until the pull of a warm body becomes too much


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Morning guys, just got home from the Chinese/Korean new year parties, hanging a little but will try to stick with both of you until the pull of a warm body becomes too much


 

 Happy New Years David. I highly recommend a warm body over us )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Happy New Years David. I highly recommend a warm body over us )))


 
  
 I recommend Elise over a warm body and Banjo / Mandolin.


----------



## connieflyer

Happy New Year's to you too as well my advice take two shots of Southern Comfort take that warm body and just slip into Blissful sleep. We will be here when you had enough relaxation warmth and togetherness all the best and good luck


----------



## DavidA

Sophia and I are eating breakfast and the warm drink along with the Sapporo beer:
  
 oops, Got the wrong sake, these are served cold


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Sophia and I are eating breakfast and the warm drink along with the Sapporo beer:
> 
> oops, Got the wrong sake, these are served cold


 
 A song for your breakfast. You can decide if it applies to Sophia or the sake. And why no pictures of Sophia????


----------



## DavidA

True Love is too mellow this morning, been listening to Asia, Three Dog Night, Yes, Boston, Steely Dan and Van Halen


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> True Love is too mellow this morning, been listening to Asia, *Three Dog Night*, Yes, Boston, Steely Dan and *Van Halen*


 
 Glad to see Dogs are still getting recognition on this thread. I'm sure Connor also appreciates it.
  
 I knew I was over the hill many years ago when I took my son to a Van Halen concert and had to sit out in the lobby for the entire concert.
  
 I wonder if we should apologize to H1 for hijacking his thread, or should he thank us for keeping it going while everyone breathlessly awaits arrival of their Euforia? One of the many great imponderables of life.


----------



## DavidA

@UntilThen going to apologize for hijacking this thread with misc ramblings but I hope as @pctazhp noted its keeping it going until Euforia ships.  To that end I'm including some pics from yesterday and today
  

 Gina
  

 Jamie
  

 Monica
  

 Vicky (Yun Jin)
  

 Bella


----------



## pctazhp

@DavidA  I strongly protest. Life is so unfair. Please Make America Great Again and share with the rest of us. Don't worry about @UntilThen. He is on his way to Tibet and has taken a vow of celery or something like that.


----------



## DavidA

pctazhp said:


> @DavidA  I strongly protest. Life is so unfair. Please Make America Great Again and share with the rest of us. Don't worry about @UntilThen. He is on his way to Tibet and has taken *a vow of celery* or something like that.


 

 ​A vow of Celery?????


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> ​A vow of Celery?????


 

 We can take that up with him when he next graces us with his presence ))))


----------



## DavidA

Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 finally got the sake cold


----------



## connieflyer

Connor is currently listening to RImsky-Korsakov's Snow Maiden Dance of the Tumblers and rocking out just fine, thank you. he likes to add a little culture now and then. We don't want to appear to crude when @DavidA is aroound.


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Connor is currently listening to RImsky-Korsakov's Snow Maiden Dance of the Tumblers and rocking out just fine, thank you. he likes to add a little culture now and then. We don't want to appear to crude when @DavidA is aroound.


 
 I like crude as much as I like culture, LOL.  Dance of the Tumblers is not a favorite of mine, but not bad, I'm more of a Bach, Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, and Handel person when it comes to classical.  I guess I was feeling very energetic these past few hours with all the Chinese/Korean new year celebration so I wanted music with a lot of energy and Sophia hasn't really listened to some old rock/punk/new-wave from the 80's.  Moved on to Journey, Go-Go's, Doobie Brothers, Moody Blues, Romantics, Billy Joel, Motels, Scandal and Cars now.


----------



## connieflyer

A little more like this?



  
  
 Boy do I feel old now!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Boy do I feel old now!


 
 Old??? You don't know old. In honor of zombies and penetrators (censored for UT's sake)


----------



## DavidA

CF, some great old tunes, actaully listed to "I wanna know what love is" and "nothing's gonna stop us now" a few hours ago
  
 PCT, never heard of Zombie Jamboree, must be from waaaaaayyyyyy back


----------



## DavidA

Got to get some sleep now, the sake is gone and Sophia went to bed, its great that tonight / this morning is cold here in Hawaii, 65F or 18.3C, nite guys.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Glad to see Dogs are still getting recognition on this thread. I'm sure Connor also appreciates it.
> 
> I knew I was over the hill many years ago when I took my son to a Van Halen concert and had to sit out in the lobby for the entire concert.
> 
> I wonder if we should apologize to H1 for hijacking his thread, or should he thank us for keeping it going while everyone breathlessly awaits arrival of their Euforia? One of the many great imponderables of life.


 
  
 OMG!...Lukasz...HELP! - get shipping those new amps..._*now*_ lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...If I'd known Elise could make grown men revert back to childhood _this_ fast, I might have thought twice about the whole project LOL!!!....you're all having WAY too much fun - especially while I'm having to perform major surgery...it just ain't fair!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but thanks indeed for 'filling in' 'til the magic days are here for folks other than myself...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 However, I must interrupt this jollity with an update on the ST "Coke Bottle" EL12 I have just wheeled out of the operating room for preliminary diagnosis...and...WHOOPEE,* IT WORKS!!!* Far too early for any really meaningful assessment of course (even the bandages aren't fully off yet!!), but partnering a GEC CV2523 I am already _*mightily impressed!*_...this bodes well, methinks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And so a quick pic for you guys...before I appease my better half and get some dinner under way!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!!...
  
 (Hope, @UntilThen, you're happy now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I know, I know...what about #2 lol?...tomorrow, tomorrow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...please don't ask me to burn the midnight oil, mon ami - gettin' too old alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...)
  

  
 ps. Unfortunately the base wasn't loose, so there's NO WAY I was gonna try hacking it off!!...had to attach a new white ceramic one instead of the lovely neat brass/gold job. Ah well, such is life - can't take any risks with these (relatively expensive) beauties...but far cheaper than the GECs lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## pctazhp

H1:  So funny AND informative)))) I hope for your sake Lukasz hears your plea for help


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> OMG!...Lukasz...HELP! - get shipping those new amps..._*now*_ lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In my sleep, I heard my name called out several times. Elise does magical things as per your statement in bold above. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ramblings out of the way now, let's get back to your surgery work. Great news that you got it to work. I'm quite convinced my dud Telefunken EL12 is a dead tube and that Pct's Siemens EL12 works and Howie's lone Siemens EL12 works, shows that EL12 can work in Elise and in your case now, Euforia. Of course we will take it for much further testing before endorsement.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Boy do I feel old now!




Don't we all...


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2sC1VY2ieU[/VIDEO]

_Valkoinen kupla_


----------



## UntilThen

^^ Above song is so good I'll give it this award
  

  
 O, I'm touring Scandinavian countries on a cruise next Sept.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WHOOPEE,* IT WORKS!!!* Far too early for any really meaningful assessment of course (even the bandages aren't fully off yet!!), but partnering a GEC CV2523 I am already _*mightily impressed!*_...this bodes well, methinks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well hurry up with dinner and give us more on what you hear. That was a RFT EL12 you had there right?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Well hurry up with dinner and give us more on what you hear. That was a RFT EL12 you had there right?


 
  
 Spot on, UT...I think it's fairly safe to say that RFT = Telefunken lol!...all bar the shouting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Still far too early, but the initial _over_-enthusiastic bass (compared to the exquisite bass of the GECs) seems to be settling down more now - thank goodness! (Not really surprising, given new wire and solder - these most definitely also need a fair burn-in...and anyone who says differently doesn't have the faintest clue of what they're talking about lol..._period!!!_





).
  
 Reverb also was a touch excessive at first, but that too seems to be less now...and presumably pairing with the GEC is hardly going to give _optimum_ results, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will do a couple more on/offs to try and speed things up a bit, and then a longer listen before bed...but things are indeed looking very promising. However, as you say, we've a way to go yet before we can safely recommend....plus I must get confirmation from Lukasz that they at least shouldn't be _harmful_ to our amps...
  
 Hope to have the pair up and working together tomorrow...should be very interesting (by early next week, at least lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## JazzVinyl

davida said:


> PCT, never heard of Zombie Jamboree, must be from waaaaaayyyyyy back :eek:




Never knew the Kingston Trie did Zombie Jamboree....

But have been listening to Harry Nilsson do it for decades (still have this LP...which has stunning sonics, as all of Nilsson's RCA offerings, had):



[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGb0AwGP6RQ [/VIDEO]




.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Spot on, UT...I think it's fairly safe to say that RFT = Telefunken lol!...all bar the shouting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for acceding to my demands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Certainly not optimum conditions and early days. Perhaps with a pair of EL12, it's easier to gauge. 
  
 From this photo, all four looks similar. I wouldn't be surprised if they are identical tubes but manufactured at different plants.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Never knew the Kingston Trie did Zombie Jamboree....
> 
> But have been listening to Harry Nilsson do it for decades (still have this LP...which has stunning sonics, as all of Nilsson's RCA offerings, had):
> .


 
 JV:  The Trios first hit, Tom Dooley, from their first album, came out in 1958. Zombie Jamboree was from their second album, a live recording from the old Hungry I coffee house in San Francisco, where I saw Bill Cosby in his early days.
  
 The Trio went through a number of changes, but always maintained their signature sound. I had the privilege of seeing them twice in concert in their later years. I am still amazed at the number of hit songs they had over the years. I never get tired of listening to them.
  
 Harry Nillson is also a true great )))


----------



## pctazhp

Quick update. My second set of EL11/12 adapters arrived in Los Angeles today. Hope to have them early next week ))


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> Harry Nillson is also a true great )))




Yes, no doubt the Kingston version is what inspired Harry to re-record it in 1976. 

The next year, 1977, Harry was supposed to make a big comeback with his album "Knillssonn" but alas, Elvis died during the first LP pressing, and all pressings were stopped and Elvis records were pressed ,instead. As a result, there are precious few Nilsson "Knillissonn" LP's around today.

It was a very good record, and would have done well for him, had not Elvis rudely intervened, by dying. 

This was Nilsson's last hurrah...he died in 1994 while assisting RCA in putting together a big compendium set.

Weird Nilsson factoid: both Cass Elliot (Mommas and Poppas) and Keith Moon (The WHO) died in the apartment he owned in London, which he sold to Pete Townshend, after Moon died in it....

.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Yes, no doubt the Kingston version is what inspired Harry to re-record it in 1976.
> 
> The next year, 1977, Harry was supposed to make a big comeback with his album "Knillssonn" but alas, Elvis died during the first LP pressing, and all pressings were stopped and Elvis records were pressed ,instead. As a result, there are precious few Nilsson "Knillissonn" LP's around today.
> 
> ...


 

 Very interesting background on Harry. Given your description of his death, you might find the introductory comments on this video interesting:


----------



## pctazhp

I really don't want to reduce H1 to tears for cluttering up his thread even more, but I just can help posting one of my all time favorite videos. Maybe he will consider it a peace offering )))))


----------



## UntilThen

Moving lawn is hard work but after a shower and headphone on, these El Dorado tubes are better than a massage.
  
 This is a beautiful movie.
  

  
*El Dorado*


----------



## pctazhp

UT:  I can't believe what a simpleton I am. I totally crack up every time I think about you moving your lawn.
  
 Agree about the movie.


----------



## UntilThen

It's hard work when you're trying to achieve this patterns. Better stick with tube rolling.
  

  
 or this

  
 or this


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Quick update. My second set of EL11/12 adapters arrived in Los Angeles today. Hope to have them early next week ))


 
  
 I'm so envious. I only have one more RFT EL12 arriving from Bulgaria. Is that where Borat is from? It better work but then I'm still one EL12 short !


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm so envious. I only have one more RFT EL12 arriving from Bulgaria. Is that where Borat is from? It better work but then I'm still one EL12 short !


 

 I can't believe there is anyone who remembers Borat. I had no idea where he was supposed to be from, so I started researching Wikipedia. It says he is "a fictitious *Kazakh* journalist traveling through the United States recording real-life interactions with Americans". But what is a "Kazakh"???
  
 So I looked further. Well, first of all, they are not to be confused with "Cossacks". Instead:
  
 "The *Kazakhs* (also spelled *Kazaks*, *Qazaqs*; Kazakh: Қазақ, قازاق 

 qɑzɑ́q (help·info), Қазақтар, قازاقتار 

 qɑzɑqtɑ́r (help·info); the English name is transliterated from Russian) are a Turkic people who mainly inhabit the southern part of Eastern Europe Ural mountains and northern parts of Central Asia (largely Kazakhstan, but also found in parts of Uzbekistan, China, Russia and Mongolia), the region also known as Eurasian sub-continent. Kazakh identity is of medieval origin and was strongly shaped by the foundation of the Kazakh Khanate between 1456 and 1465, when several tribes under the rule of the sultans Zhanibek and Kerey departed from the Khanate of Abu'l-Khayr Khan. The Kazakhs are descendants of the Turkic and medieval Mongol tribes – Argyns, Dughlats, Naimans, Jalairs, Khazars, Qarluqs; and of the Kipchaks and Cumans,[23][24] and other tribes such as the Huns, and ancient Iranian nomads like the Sarmatians, Saka and Scythians from East Europe populated the territory between Siberia and the Black Sea and remained in Central Asia and Eastern Europe when the nomadic groups started to invade and conquer the area between the 5th and 13th centuries AD"
  
 It therefore looks as if your tube is not from where Borat was from, and you should be ok.


----------



## UntilThen

Cos everyone remembers Borat. He put the tube bands to good use.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh that's where Bulgaria is.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Cos everyone remembers Borat. He put the tube bands to good use.


 

 I could have easily gone the entire rest of my life and never have seen that picture ((((((
  
 BTW, my wife lovingly refers to all of you as my "bulb family". So


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> BTW, my wife lovingly refers to all of you as my "bulb family". So


 
  
 Can you let her know I'm the tulip. I'm not sure about the others.


----------



## pctazhp

It's nighty-night time here on the High Sonoran Desert.
  
 BTW, @UntilThen. Did I read you are going on a cruise to Scandinavia sometime?  If so, that sounds like a lot of fun.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> It's nighty-night time here on the High Sonoran Desert.
> 
> BTW, @UntilThen. Did I read you are going on a cruise to Scandinavia sometime?  If so, that sounds like a lot of fun.


 
  
 That's on the agenda next Sept 2018. Not sure if it goes as far north as Finland. Sure would love to see O.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay bulb family, I vote to be a rose, because a rose by another name is still a rose.  Don't know what that has to do with anything but it is all I have. Or perhaps a Rhododendron


----------



## UntilThen

CF that's a very nice front garden. Has Conner been watering the plant?
  
 Now a song for your 'rose'


----------



## connieflyer

Connor can water the backyard front yards mine. He doesn't bother the rose bushes Outback he knows better. If he lifts his leg on one of those something might get a nasty thorns!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Spot on, UT...I think it's fairly safe to say that RFT = Telefunken lol!...all bar the shouting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know it's early days but my time with EL11 and EL12N led me to these observations. There's an immediacy of sound.. attack and leading edge transient. What I hear seems to come from bigger transducers. Yet it's not harsh but a very satisfying outcome. One that makes me listen to music on hours again.
  
 Now I'm just curious how much change will replacing EL12N with EL12 bring about.
  
 So you've more work on your hands. Get the EL12N adapted too.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. A Rhododendron by any other name is still impossible to remember how to spell. Having recently honed my Wikipedia research skills I thought you might be interested to know:
  
_*Rhododendron*_ /ˌroʊdəˈdɛndrən/ (from Ancient Greek ῥόδον _rhódon_ "rose" and δένδρον _déndron_ "tree")[3][4] is a genus of 1,024 species of woody plants in the heath family (Ericaceae), either evergreen or deciduous, and found mainly in Asia, although it is also widespread throughout the Southern Highlands of the Appalachian Mountains of North America. It is the national flower of Nepal. Most species have showy flowers which bloom from late winter through to early summer.[5]
Azaleas make up two subgenera of _Rhododendron_. They are distinguished from "true" rhododendrons by having only five anthers per flower."
  
 @UntilThen. Great news about your planned cruises. Wonder if they will allow a vacuum tube amp on board)))


----------



## UntilThen

They have live cabaret on the cruise. H1 will know. He was captain of the Love boat.

Looking forward to the cruise covering Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, Berlin and St Petersburg.


----------



## UntilThen

I used to have some Azaleas but they died ever since Elise came.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> They have live cabaret on the cruise. H1 will know. He was captain of the Love boat.
> 
> Looking forward to the cruise covering Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, Berlin and St Petersburg.


 
 I forgot about H1's cruise days. Captain????
  
 Cruise sounds amazing. I need to refer to a map, but it seems to me one or two of those cities may require training wheels on the boat. Oh my. Back to Wikipedia.
  
 So as not to take up an other post on this totally off topic subject, and recognizing this may only be of use to Americans, I just heard on TV of a new telephone scam. Someone from a local area code calls you and asks you if you can hear them. If you say "yes" you've been nailed. They now have you on tape saying "yes" to all kinds of things that will cost you money, time and headaches. Just a word to the wise. Seemed crazy to me, but the report made it sound pretty serious.


----------



## UntilThen

They can have my yes but that doesn't mean it's a yes.

As for off topic, never. We're the bulb family. )))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> They can have my yes but that doesn't mean it's a yes.
> 
> As for off topic, never. We're the bulb family. )))


 

 May we always glow bright)))
  
 Administrative question:  My reputation button isn't working. Anyone else have that problem?


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I have something worth sharing.

An 80 year old audiophile says that finally his system is where he wants it but there is a catch. He can no longer hear much of the high frequencies.

Morale of the story. Don't leave it too late. 

It's not too late to order Euforia at the preorder price but time is running out.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright I have something worth sharing.
> 
> An 80 year old audiophile says that finally his system is where he wants it but there is a catch. He can no longer hear much of the high frequencies.
> 
> ...


 

 To that I say "Hear!!! Hear!!!
  
*Hear, hear* is an expression used as a short, repeated form of _hear him_. It represents a listener's agreement with the point being made by a speaker.
 It was originally an imperative for directing attention to speakers, and has since been used, according to the _Oxford English Dictionary_, as "the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons", with many purposes, depending on the intonation of its user.[1] Its use in Parliament is linked to the fact that applause is normally (though not always) forbidden in the chambers of the House of Commons and House of Lords.[2]
  
 Sorry, but my malfunctioning reputation button is leading to excessive and unnecessary posting ((((


----------



## connieflyer

Pct saw your post and had to laugh, I had to use wiki to get correct spelling. Even then it did not look right. Here they bloom only once in ldte spring, but every year the get bigger and better.
That trip Scandanavia sounds fantastic, I am sure you will you will survive with out Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Pct saw your post and had to laugh, I had to use wiki to get correct spelling. Even then it did not look right. Here they bloom only once in ldte spring, but every year the get bigger and better.
> That trip Scandanavia sounds fantastic, I am sure you will you will survive with out Elise.


 

 I should have also added that your Robodendrums are quite beautiful and impressive. Unlike UT I'll refrain from commenting on Connor's contribution.


----------



## UntilThen

Finn agrees in my House of Commons.


----------



## connieflyer

So that is where Connors ball went!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> That trip Scandanavia sounds fantastic, I am sure you will you will survive with out Elise.


 
  
 There is a catch. My wife says no more tubes. I have only one EL12. What am I gonna do?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> There is a catch. My wife says no more tubes. I have only one EL12. What am I gonna do?


 

 The only thing I think of to say is that a tube in hand is worth two in CF's Rhododendron bush. But I'm sure Finn has already pointed that out.


----------



## connieflyer

Permit me to buy it for you, you can tell her it is a gift!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Permit me to buy it for you, you can tell her it is a gift!


 
  
 You're too kind CF but I can't let you do that. Don't worry I'll find another.
  
 I don't really feel the need as I find EL12N sounding just about right for me. This is a hunch, an intuition. I think the EL12 is more full bodied than the EL12N. Well some of you will confirm that for me.


----------



## pctazhp

I have no idea why, but this song has been going through my mind this morning. Got some places to go and zombies to see right now. See y'all later


----------



## connieflyer

The bass line on this will rock your world


----------



## connieflyer

Another snappy bass line, neighbor called to ask if I had felt the earthquake, admitted I had the volumne up a little high.  But at least I know the windows are still in good shape, no rattling


----------



## connieflyer

Last one from Zack nice uptempo


----------



## pctazhp

The gentry class listens to music on Sunday morning.
  
 Us slobs do this:


----------



## connieflyer

I do it on Fridays, that is the busiest day of the week that way it is more challenging.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I do it on Fridays, that is the busiest day of the week that way it is more challenging.


 

 Totally understand. I always do my Christmas shopping on December 24. Does any man do it any sooner??


----------



## connieflyer

I used to wait to the last minute to do Christmas shopping but my sister objected when I called her at 11:30 Christmas Eve night to get her husband's shirt size. Then after got married found out all of Sue's sizes and figured out what she liked what she didn't like and which spend weeks at all the specialty clothing stores getting her things for Christmas. I had a success rate of about 80% which was pretty good. But there was still that 20% that had to be returned after Christmas, nasty. So after toiling away for many years doing this to finally told me why don't you just let me have the money and I'll do the shopping after Christmas get more Bargains and you won't have to suffer. What a concept. Here's your Christmas card with a check inside have a ball, she did the same for me. Probably why we lasted so long!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I know it's early days but my time with EL11 and EL12N led me to these observations. There's an immediacy of sound.. attack and leading edge transient. What I hear seems to come from bigger transducers. Yet it's not harsh but a very satisfying outcome. One that makes me listen to music on hours again.
> 
> Now I'm just curious how much change will replacing EL12N with EL12 bring about.
> 
> So you've more work on your hands. Get the EL12N adapted too.


 
  
 Always knew you were a Slave Master, UT...perhaps in a former life out there somewhere in the Colonies lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, as promised, RFT EL12 #2 is also out of surgery...and it too WORKS!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 "Works" is, actually, rather an insult - even though NOS (not bad for £35!), I don't think I've ever had a tube sound so good so soon...no plops, pings, buzzes, hums etc. on very first startup...amazing!... Totally 'black' background, silent as death...this bodes very well indeed.
  
 I have to admit to being a little worried last night with my first tube partnering a GEC...it was sounding a tad _too_ dynamic for my mesh-plated Valvo EL11s, and in my system.
  
 But, of course, just further confirmation of the need to be VERY patient with new tubes especially - this morning it was singing beautifully with the GEC (much to my surprise, actually, given a vastly different type of power tube lol!). And now with its proper partner, I have to say that already - even though still too early! - I am in total awe of this setup with the EL11 drivers. More detailed impressions to come later, but suffice to say I think the uber-expensive GEC/Osrams might just have met their match LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...again, _in my system!_ This is going to be an _extremely_ interesting comparison exercise, with my long-term favourite testing tracks..._lots_ of them!...so will take a good while before final verdict, of course.
  
 And given these use the same adapter as the EL11, I do believe we Elise/Euforia owners really have struck gold here with both these tubes. Once again, the Feliks family have pulled off a minor miracle in creating amps that are getting tubes never dreamt of in initial configuration to sing like canaries...*incredible!!*...And the icing on the cake is that they consume far less current in total than stock tubes, and have the amp running wonderfully cool...what more could you ask for?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!...


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> I used to wait to the last minute to do Christmas shopping but my sister objected when I called her at 11:30 Christmas Eve night to get her husband's shirt size. Then after got married found out all of Sue's sizes and figured out what she liked what she didn't like and which spend weeks at all the specialty clothing stores getting her things for Christmas. I had a success rate of about 80% which was pretty good. But there was still that 20% that had to be returned after Christmas, nasty. So after toiling away for many years doing this to finally told me why don't you just let me have the money and I'll do the shopping after Christmas get more Bargains and you won't have to suffer. What a concept. Here's your Christmas card with a check inside have a ball, she did the same for me. Probably why we lasted so long!


 
 Best x-mas present that I've found was a few years ago when they had used like-new momentum on-ears for $52 to $56, got 6 of them and gave them for x-mas gifts, best gift ever for me


----------



## mordy

I hate going shopping for everyday items. I go to Costco 15 minutes before they close. At that time the cashiers make sure to work very fast so they can get you out and they can go home...
  
 The new generation is different. When my daughter needs an item like an electric switch she orders it from her cell phone from Amazon Prime and it is there the next day.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Always knew you were a Slave Master, UT...perhaps in a former life out there somewhere in the Colonies lol?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah ha, now this is consistent with what I hear but the difference is the 'N'. 2 Rfts EL12 that works for you and works very well as you say. Incredible.
  
 I'm struggling to describe what I like about the timbre from EL11 / EL12N. Vocals are very clear and yet not confronting. Stage is wide and yet not too wide. High frequencies are very clear and yet not fatiguing. Bass is strong without overpowering. Imaging is uncanny. There's a sublime quality to the tone. It's relax and yet have incredible impact.
  
 It's been 2 weeks now and I've not return to other combos except for brief comparisons. I've not even return to EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought a replacement TFK EL12 from a seller I've bought a ECC31 in the past. wege-high-fidelity.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I am not struggling to express what I hear with the two TFK EL11 and the Bendix 6080WB:
  
_"Vocals are very clear and yet not confronting. Sound stage is wide and yet not too wide. High frequencies are very clear and yet not fatiguing. Bass is strong without overpowering. Imaging is uncanny. There's a sublime quality to the tone. It is relaxed and yet it has incredible impact."_
  
 Sounds familiar?
  
 Would like to add that the instrument separation is fantastic, and tremendous amount of detail, but not overpowering. Relaxed is the word.
  
 Now somebody is going to accuse me of being OTT - so be it......
  
 Briefly tried the ELs with TS5998 and GEC6AS7G, but in my system the Bendix works best.


----------



## pctazhp

I also hate shopping. I go grocery shopping about every three months. I order everything else I need directly from Poland or from some guy in Bulgaria by the name of Borat.
  
 Since I went to the grocery store this morning, I've been trying different combinations of fresh fruits and vegetables in my refrigerator to see how they pair with my EL11s. So far nothing very dramatic, but I'll report back later tonight if I happen to hit upon a holy grail combo.


----------



## connieflyer

My refrigerator is always so empty that I think the best thing to do is just a store snow in it for later this Summer's use


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I am not struggling to express what I hear with the two TFK EL11 and the Bendix 6080WB:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hahaha very good Mordy. I'm waiting for you to get your EL12 and Ns to hear your impressions.


----------



## mordy

It's really an unusual sound presentation - equally suitable for background music mode, or, you could switch to critical/analytical listening and enjoy every nuance of the music.


----------



## UntilThen

Now all we need is for @hypnos1 to give us a picture of EL11 and EL12 without the bandages.


----------



## pctazhp

You guys are distracting me from my fruits and vegetables. Put my EL11/Bendix 6080 combo back in.
  
 Vocals are very clear and yet not confronting. Sound stage is wide and yet not too wide. High frequencies are very clear and yet not fatiguing. Bass is strong without overpowering. Imaging is uncanny. There's a sublime quality to the tone. It is relaxed and yet it has incredible impact.
  
 I should add that the Sultans are really rockin' out.


----------



## mordy

Nostalgic for the EL3N with the paddle feet? Craving the El11? Here is a solution:
  





  
 Meet the EL6 tube which is supposedly the same as the EL11 with a different base. I think that the EL3N adapters will work - the pinout seems to be the same.
  
 But you knew all this already...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNGSRAM-EL6-PENTODE-TUBES-SAME-CODES-TEST-100-/262788901133?hash=item3d2f70690d:g:l84AAOSwZQRYajl~


----------



## mordy

It appears that the EL11 pairs well with lower powered tubes such as the EL12 at 1.2A. Since I don't have a pair yet, I decided to try it with a 1.5A tube - the GE 6BL7GT.
  
 Warning! The following may be construed as an OTT statement, and you may want to skip it. Don't say I didn't warn you!
  
 Can't believe it - another winner! A full bodied and punchy presentation. It has the trademarks of the EL11 sound combined with some American Muscle. More forward and a little less relaxed, but goooood!
  
 Sorry, pct, the fruits and veggies have to wait!
  
 Can't remember - maybe somebody else also have tried this already.....
  
 I am not going to use the word *WOW!*


----------



## connieflyer

A great voice on this lady


----------



## mordy

OK, it was OTT - got carried away. Anyhow, which car would you prefer in the long run?
  
 EL11/Bendix (Mazda Miata)




 EL11/6BL7 Chevy Camaro




  
 I vote for the Miata, but the Camaro is fun.....


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy. One good thing about fruits and vegetables is they are much harder to lose than tubes. I had (probably still have) a pair of 6BL7s, but they are missing in action. As I recall, they were one of the preferred Christmas Tree ornaments that occupied many pages on the other thread. Well, hopefully my second set of adapters will be here soon and I'll be trying a full EL11/EL12 combo.
  
 Edit:  I'm 6'4" tall and wouldn't fit in either car. Can you come up with a semi-truck cab choice for me????


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,  
This looks like the best choice for you. However, when did you measure your height last? I find that as I am aging, I am getting shorter - maybe I have lost more than one inch in height in the past 5-7 years.....
  
  








  


 
 
 Photo Credit: FCA Media

2016 Ram 1500 Crew Cab  The 2016 RAM 1500 Crew Cab does more than just pay lip service to having an enormous interior with its team-oriented name - it actually delivers. The 4-door Ram 1500 Crew Cab features 41 inches of front headroom combined with 41 inches of leg room, and moving to the rear of the truck, you will also find 40.3 inches of space for passenger legs (as well as 39.9 inches of head space). Big doors make it easy to get in and out of the cabin of the Ram as well, and of course, the big step up into the passenger compartment isn't going to be an issue for the taller set.
  
 Years ago I sat down in the first edition Mazda Miata. The car was so hot that people bought them and flipped them to people who did not want to wait for months for delivery. Just couldn't believe it, my knees hit the dash even with the seat all the way back, and that was when I was close to 6 feet tall.


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, you wouldn't fit in either of my cars, S2000 and 4runner.  The S2000 is just right for me being a shrimp at 5-6, its one of the most fun cars I've had and its a great chick magnet.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Nostalgic for the EL3N with the paddle feet? Craving the El11? Here is a solution:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy.
  
 According to Radiomuseum, the EL6 is equivalent to the EL*12*, not the *11*, and it appears the greater power output doesn't really suit use as a driver lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...just so folks are aware...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 You mentioned American 'muscle' using the GE powers, well the German ST EL12s are full blown Teutonic bombardment lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - powerfully dynamic, dynamically powerful...whichever way you call it...WOW!...and all from just 1.2A...unbelievable.
  
 Anyway, as requested by the Slave Master (who else but @UntilThen!), the bandages will be off my RFTs very soon now, and light permitting, will be bringing out the Nikon...
  
*HOWEVER...*I'm hopefully not being premature, but as yet we still cannot fully recommend the ST "Coke Bottle" EL12, as it appears _*yet** another*_ (RFT this time) is refusing to work!! For me personally, this lack of reliability is proving far too unacceptable, and I simply cannot recommend this tube as being a safe bet, alas. Anyone wishing to take a punt on these really will have to do so _*PURELY AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!*_, I'm afraid...This is very sad news indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(unless it turns out to be _adapter_ problems, after all...which would still not be good news, of course....).


----------



## UntilThen

Tube rolling isn't for the faint hearted, especially when it's new tubes being trialled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To date, only Pct's pair of Siemens EL12, Howie's solo Siemens EL12 and H1's pair of RFT EL12 are working.
  
 Even though I paid NOS prices for both my Telefunken and RFT EL12, I've been unfortunate to experience tubes with no sound. In the case of the RFT, there's light but no sound. I've bought those tubes not from mainstream sellers though. They are the smaller operators who even though they claim it's NOS, have no test results. I'm still convinced my EL12s are just bad tubes. 
  
 So I have another Telefunken EL12 ordered from wege-high-fidelity. Will get the 2nd tube from him too. I'll have one more go at the EL12s.
  
 We'll be hearing from others of their experiences with EL12 but the usual caution applies... 'you do so at your own risks'. 
  
 I'm quite comfortable with the EL12N though so I look forward to others impressions of it when their tubes and adapters arrived.


----------



## pctazhp

Good morning Bulb Family. It's mornings like this I don't like waking up to. Well, I'm glad the Universe has granted me one more day, but there is trouble in the world and trouble in our own little speck of that world. Everyone is entitled to their own special specks and I'm glad FA-LANDIA is one of my special specks. But bummer news about @UntilThen's second dead EL12ST. I'm really sorry about that UT. It seems so strange that this problem has developed with the STs. I hope someone will find a source of reliable ST versions of the EL12.
  
 @mordy. You picked the perfect vehicle for me. It even is pulling a boat that looks very much like one I used to own.
  
 Well, life goes on and I need my first cup of coffee.


----------



## pctazhp

Hey @UntilThen. This is my way of expressing Solidarity with your on going EL12-ST search


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Tube rolling isn't for the faint hearted, especially when it's new tubes being trialled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah UT...really sad news. These must be about the most unreliable trials we've had so far, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but things are much more hopeful for the much cheaper EL12*N* however....by all accounts lol!
  
 Anyway, not wishing to rub salt in the wounds (and you did tell me to get on with it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), here's said photo of the latest tubes to come out of the operating room, minus bandages...will give more info on how I find them after a good bit more burn-in - at the moment I'm having mixed views on just how they synergise with my mesh plated Valvo EL11s and the rest of my gear, compared to the GECs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...this isn't going to be as straightforward as I thought - _is it ever LOL??!!!_








...
  

  
 Sure look good though, agreed?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Frederick Rea

Excluding H1, all valve tests refers to the ELISE amplifier, since no one has EUFORIA. Why are you posting here?


----------



## connieflyer

Now that is one beautiful presentation. I hope these tubes workout this is the best-looking combo of tubes that I have seen in my opinion of course it looks complete looks professional and I know it has a sound fantastic. Where's my amp?


----------



## connieflyer

Just for clarity the tubes that work in the Elise amp also work in the Euoforia amp and since the new amp there is only one available solution right now that is what he's testing. Why would you not want to know what works on both amps. I don't understand that comment.


----------



## pctazhp

frederick rea said:


> Excluding H1, all valve tests refers to the ELISE amplifier, since no one has EUFORIA. Why are you posting here?


 

 I can only speak for myself. I have no mind of my own and just follow the pack. Blame the other guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've turned over my mind to @connieflyer this morning, and incorporate by reference (lawyer talk) his response above.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Edit:  I'm 6'4" tall and wouldn't fit in either car. Can you come up with a semi-truck cab choice for me????




Howbout a bike? See video (skip first 10 minutes): 

https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=922_1485437350&selected_view_mode=mobile

You don't often see that. This took place in Helsinki (partially) and Espoo (mostly). My commute route is included. :blink:


----------



## pctazhp

Several lifetimes ago I had a BSA 650 (largest engine at the time). It spent more time in the horizontal position on the pavement than running vertical. I sold it to a doctor who worked in an emergency room. Go figure???
  
 I'd show my commute route from my bedroom to the desk in my living room, but the apartment is pretty messy right now.


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> Excluding H1, all valve tests refers to the ELISE amplifier, since no one has EUFORIA. Why are you posting here?


 
  
 Hi F R...I myself will indeed be repeating my findings over on the Elise thread - others have been replying to me here as this is where I reside more now...naturally lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...plus, I (we) am much more wary now about "double posting" since incurring the wrath of moderators (or, rather, due to less-than-sympathetic members!!) a long while ago! Plus..._time_, mon ami!
 I do realise this is rather important information for all Elise owners as well as future Euforia guys...patience please, amico mio...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Sure look good though, agreed?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Such a beautiful picture. What Nikon is that and what lens? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 None of our EL11s will look as good as your black Valvo with gold plated base. The Rft looks good too. Perhaps that's the reason I'm chasing these till I get sound.
  
 Sydney is experiencing heat wave now. Hits 41 degrees today and will hit 42 tomorrow. This hot photo just nudge the temp up a notch.


----------



## connieflyer

I will take 42 any day. 16 degrees here this morning, we are going backward again. And you are right, with pictures of the amp and tubes like this, it would be hard not to like it.  Good one oh mighty leaders!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Howbout a bike? See video (skip first 10 minutes):
> 
> https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=922_1485437350&selected_view_mode=mobile
> 
> You don't often see that. This took place in Helsinki (partially) and Espoo (mostly). My commute route is included.


 
  
 Thanks for a glimpse of Helsinki. Were you on the 2nd bike? Watching the video makes me groggy but it's quite a nice route. The last time I rode a bike was when I was 18, on a Yamaha 175cc scrambler.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Why would you not want to know what works on both amps.


 
  
 You sure amaze me with some of the most memorable quotes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hats off to you buddy.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Were you on the 2nd bike?




More likely on the bus at 27:12.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I will take 42 any day. 16 degrees here this morning, we are going backward again. And you are right, with pictures of the amp and tubes like this, it would be hard not to like it.  Good one oh mighty leaders!


 
  
 Believe me, you can have my 42 and I'll go naked on 16.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh my just got a visual of you running naked through the snow at 16 degrees, I hope someday I will be able to erase it from my mind! I am talking Fahrenheit!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Such a beautiful picture. What Nikon is that and what lens?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks UT...Nikon D5200, AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm G ED - really should use it a lot more, but the little Panasonic DMC-Z10 with Leica lens is so darned good lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(well, _most_ of the time at least! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but thought the new combo deserved special treatment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 There is one at least, however, who will also have _half_ the fancy-based black mesh Valvos (but partnered with a grey non-mesh RFT alas!)....as a promise to our good friend @connieflyer after his sad loss a while ago...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(I'm sure he won't mind my mentioning this, or anyone else for my special treatment of him LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 I do hope you manage to have more luck with your ST EL12s...they do indeed look splendid partnering EL11s in the front (black _or_ grey!!)...and they sound good too!...
  
 Anyway, better get posting on the Elise thread....which I must admit I have been neglecting somewhat recently - don't know why!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS all!!...


----------



## connieflyer

This is a gift that will keep on giving! Thank you so much, and continued good luck on the construction of bases.  I can not imagine trying to remove and replace a base on tubes.  I have a hard time coordinating broom and dustpan!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Oh my just got a visual of you running naked through the snow at 16 degrees, I hope someday I will be able to erase it from my mind! I am talking Fahrenheit!


 
  
 I see. 16 Fahrenheit is -8.88 Celsius. Why didn't you say so and who use Fahrenheit these days.


----------



## connieflyer

Us old people in the Colonies!  They tried years ago to go on the Metric scale like the rest of the world but did not happen.


----------



## Oskari

You are kind of slow. :rolleyes:




> In 1875, the United States solidified its commitment to the development of the internationally recognized metric system by becoming one of the original seventeen signatory nations…



_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States_


----------



## connieflyer

It is politics, they agree to dis agree and then do nothing.  Par for the course.


----------



## pctazhp

Metric-Schmetric. We don't need no metric here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It's a commie plot to pollute the minds of American children with science and stuff like that.


----------



## DavidA

When I was still working we had to include both units for length, weight, temp, etc, PITA until the CAD programs got smart enough to do it automatically.
  
 Its a cold moring here in Hawaii, 19C, I think I need a few more hot tube amps to use as space heaters in addition to a warm body.


----------



## Frederick Rea

connieflyer said:


> Just for clarity the tubes that work in the Elise amp also work in the Euoforia amp and since the new amp there is only one available solution right now that is what he's testing. Why would you not want to know what works on both amps. *I don't understand that comment*.


 
 Hey CF. You sure understand, my friend. If all these posts in which ELISE is used were written in the respective thread (*AS WELL*) would be grate for those who have it and want to continue to have it. For the new readers, if they want ELISE is in the respective thread they are going to read. For us, this does not matter I understand. There, we still like to see humorous and good stories as well


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 It's really funny, I also have a Nikon D5200 but with the 18-55 and 55-200 lenses. And a Panasonic DMC-ZS7. The Nikon has too much resolution to post pictures, and I find the menus too complicated to change the setting for posting and "downsize".
  
 The LCD screen stopped working on the Panasonic. I have a replacement, but need to find somebody to install it - it is hard for me to work with tiny parts.
  
 Instead I use my iPhone 6S camera. Truth is, it takes great pictures, and I am thinking of selling my Nikon....
  
 Speaking about tubes,I have a bunch coming, both EL11 and EL12 - even one straight glass EL11.
  
 Thanks for correcting my post on the EL6.
  
 Oskari - I am still dizzy from watching the motorcycle chase. In the US where I live they do not do car and motorcycle chases - too many accidents and injuries and worse.


----------



## pctazhp

frederick rea said:


> Hey CF. You sure understand, my friend. If all these posts in which ELISE is used were written in the respective thread (*AS WELL*) would be grate for those who have it and want to continue to have it. For the new readers, if they want ELISE is in the respective thread they are going to read. For us, this does not matter I understand. There, *we still like to see humorous and good stories as well *


 
 I don't remember seeing any "humorous" or "good stories" here. I thought we were doing the other thread a favor by staying over here.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Oskari - I am still dizzy from watching the motorcycle chase. In the US where I live they do not do car and motorcycle chases - too many accidents and injuries and worse.




I was surprised to see this chase, too.

Don't try it, but here's the route if anybody's interested. 



 https://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=16239282


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Here is one of my favorite chase videos - a Limosine doing up to 240 km/hr (150mph)
  

  
 Happened some 45 min from where I live - glad I wasn't there.


----------



## mordy

OK - one more, that is mind boggling...


----------



## UntilThen

I'm away for like a few minutes. When I came back there are another 10 posts. It's a fast thread.


----------



## mordy

Today I received a Philips/Miniwatt Made in Holland EL11 tube with the original box. I didn't want to bother Oskari to look up the date code, so I tried myself. Pouring over the endless charts I am utterly stumped. This is how it looks:
  

  
  

 Are the two slanted lines Opta-Loewe in Hamburg? Is the t January 1950/3/6? Can't find MXB.
  
 Another picture - this tube looks pretty new:
  

  
  

 It lights up and makes sounds - waiting for more tubes to arrive. Meanwhile the TFK EL11 are great sounding.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Today I received a Philips/Miniwatt Made in Holland EL11 tube with the original box. I didn't want to bother Oskari to look up the date code, so I tried myself. Pouring over the endless charts I am utterly stumped. This is how it looks:
> 
> Are the two slanted lines Opta-Loewe in Hamburg? Is the t January 1950/3/6? Can't find MXB.




You're almost there.

Yes, I think that's the older code for Loewe-Opta (Berlin) "for Valvo, Hamburg".

t is correct. B tells 51–53. ⇒ Date must be Jan 53.

MX means EL11.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Thanks for deciphering the date and manufacturing codes - at least I am older than the tube lol! But if it is made in Germany, why does it say Made in Holland on the tube?
  
 Maybe not such a question - even some Svetlana tubes say Made in Holland.....
  
 Looking inside through the see -through top I see the round oil barrel style plate with some kind of spiral inside.
  
 The world is getting smaller. Here am I sitting in the US with a Polish made amplifier with tubes from Germany and the US, corresponding with people in Finland, Canada, Australia, England, Greece, USA etc etc.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy you miss out your adapter supplier from China. My 4 replacement adapters came from Mrs Xu Ling and it fits like a glove. Sigh my initiation into EL11 / EL12 sure hasn't been smooth. First the Pisa towers, then recalcitrant EL12. No matter, it will work eventually.


----------



## Oskari

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]





mordy said:


> But if it is made in Germany, why does it say Made in Holland on the tube?





[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/e5HkuhSEnPQ[/VIDEO]

_Little Lies_


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> _Little Lies_


 
  
 That or alternative truths.


----------



## UntilThen

We hold these to be self evident. That not all tubes are created equal. Some are better than others ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 These may not sing now but one day they will because they do look classy. I have 2 more Telefunken EL12 coming.


----------



## pctazhp

The only thing self evident around here is that we are all crazy.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> The only thing self evident around here is that we are all crazy.


 
  
 Heresies. Self evidence is ingrained in the constitution of tubes. You may be crazy but the tubes are not.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Heresies. Self evidence is ingrained in the constitution of tubes. You may be crazy but the tubes are not.


 

 I have spent my life chasing rich heiresses.
  
 I am constantly amazed at my ability to synthesize everything that needs to be said. This addresses both craziness and the heartbreak of psoriasis EL12 ST tubes:


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> OK, it was OTT - got carried away. Anyhow, which car would you prefer in the long run?
> 
> EL11/Bendix (Mazda Miata)
> 
> ...


 
 Both nice cars, but I will take the convertible every day of the week. I own a 2005 Chrysler Crossfire convertible. It has 38000 km. Doesn't get driven much, as Im usually on  my Burgman in the summer, but the wife likes us to go for ice cream on Sundays.


----------



## aqsw

Anybody know when xulingmrs is back in business?


----------



## connieflyer

This is the message on her site.....This seller is currently away until Feb 01, 2017, and is not processing orders at this time. You can add this item to your watch list to purchase later.


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> This is the message on her site.....This seller is currently away until Feb 01, 2017, and is not processing orders at this time. You can add this item to your watch list to purchase later.


 
 Thank you


----------



## connieflyer

You are most welcome


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 What's the problemos with them El12s?
  
 Thank you for mentioning China - I had it in mind, but forgot.
  
 Hi aqsw,
  
 So you do prefer the EL11/Bendix?
  
 Don't worry, Mrs Ling Xu will be back tomorrow. When I ordered my EL11/12 adapters she told me that she had received an order from the US for 500 adapters (don't know which ones),
 but since I received my adapters right away (new version) she probably finished the order.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What's the problemos with them El12s?


 
  
 Their lips are sealed. No sound.


----------



## mordy

This is only an uneducated quess: Is there a relationship between the plate voltage the 12EL tubes were designed for and the silence?
  
 What is the plate voltage on the 12ELN?


----------



## DecentLevi

@MIKELAP I truly think we would enjoy having you around in 'Euforia'. Not only is your expertise with tubes world class but so is your camaraderie. I'm sure we could all benefit from your being a Euforia owner, and I for one think there is potential in the concept of component quality of amps making them competitive with beefier ones. I think Feliks Audio may still honor the 10% discount being that today is still January in North America.


----------



## MIKELAP

decentlevi said:


> @MIKELAP I truly think we would enjoy having you around in 'Euforia'. Not only is your expertise with tubes world class but so is your camaraderie. I'm sure we could all benefit from your being a Euforia owner, and I for one think there is potential in the concept of component quality of amps making them competitive with beefier ones. I think Feliks Audio may still honor the 10% discount being that today is still January in North America.


 
 The Euforia would be very interesting to own but unfortunately i will have to pass i really cant justify giving away $800.00 in exchange rate and duty for a $1300.00 amp .Its to bad but that's the way it is for now anyways


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> What's the problemos with them El12s?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, mordy...what's the betting they're for an EL tube of _some_ sort or other lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(sure would be interesting to know for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 I hear you re. the likes of the Nikon SLR...they are indeed much more work than either the compacts _or_ the smart 'phones that do have incredibly good cameras in 'em these days...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(but one certainly looks much more the professional when out and about with all the gear...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Glad you're still liking the EL11s...and hope you manage to get some_ working _ST12s...or are you sticking with the safer 12*Ns*?!...
  


mikelap said:


> The Euforia would be very interesting to own but unfortunately i will have to pass i really cant justify giving away $800.00 in exchange rate and duty for a $1300.00 amp .Its to bad but that's the way it is for now anyways


 
  
 That sure is a shame, M...but can fully understand why - there's no real justice in this World, to be sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but who knows what the future may bring lol?...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...good to hear from you again though...all the best to you...


----------



## DecentLevi

mikelap said:


> The Euforia would be very interesting to own but unfortunately i will have to pass i really cant justify giving away $800.00 in exchange rate and duty for a $1300.00 amp .Its to bad but that's the way it is for now anyways


 
 The price would come out to $1,639 CAD after the 10% discount and I'm pretty sure the cost of VAT and shipping are already included. If it helps any I'm sure you could ship it to one of us forum members here in the US and then extra for reshipping to Canada... just a last minute thought anyway in case it helps.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> The price would come out to $1,639 CAD after the 10% discount and I'm pretty sure the cost of VAT and shipping are already included. If it helps any I'm sure you could ship it to one of us forum members here in the US and then extra for reshipping to Canada... just a last minute thought anyway in case it helps.


 
  
 $1259 pre-order price. Reverts to $1399 after promotion period. Shipping is additional.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> $1259 pre-order price. Reverts to $1399 after promotion period. Shipping is additional.


 
 Just for the sake of clarity, that price does include VAT, but as you say shipping is additional. I didn't have to pay any customs on Elise, but don't know about Canada.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> This is only an uneducated quess: Is there a relationship between the plate voltage the 12EL tubes were designed for and the silence?
> 
> What is the plate voltage on the 12ELN?


 
  
 Hi again m...don't think it can be down to the V factor - the specs are basically the same for the ST12s and the straight 12Ns...the STs simply have a range of tubes that allow for different _maximum_ voltages if required, according to the circuit design, but otherwise should behave in our amps just the same as the Ns...as @Oskari indicated a while back...
  
 Now then guys...for those who are intrepid (foolhardy?!) enough to enter the ST EL12 game, here's a further update as per my own system's findings...
  
 Firstly, it looks to me like these EL12s could well be similar to the EL3N in needing fairly long burn-in to really shine...my early misgivings re. synergy with the rest of my gear are dissolving by the day...(note, guys : I'm talking _*days*_ here lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.)
 I had feared the powerful dynamics of this tube may just have been too much in combination with the more powerful Euforia...but luckily, its initial "over-eagerness" to please/impress is settling down, and everything is calming down nicely...and approaching the masterly control and refined balance of the GEC/Osrams (6AS7G variants).
  
 I say 'calming down' advisedly here, because there is still impact galore, along with a now much tighter more extended bass that goes beyond _*any*_ tubes I have ever heard before..._*startling*__*ly so*_, in fact. I never realised the T1s could reproduce these lower notes so effortlessly and with such complete control. I suspect this response is also aided by the new circuitry and components in the Euforia lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Mids are nicely in balance with the lowest notes, as with the upper register - treble is now much clearer and even more extended than before...in fact the whole sound is much 'cleaner' and less cluttered after just another day's burn-in. Treble also now has that delicious finesse and percussion decay that is so tantalising...but not in an unnatural, excessive reverb sort of way...wonderful...
  
 Voices are back in their 'intimate' place, after initially disappointing placement, (for me), a bit further away...these tubes have opened up beautifully, and I'm sure will continue to do so a bit more yet, even...and 3D 'Holography' is now in abundance once more.
  
 And even though I'm quite sure there will still be other benefits from more time on these tubes, I have to say that they are already performing in a way I hadn't really expected...these are truly _*exceptional*_ tubes (as powers), and if it weren't for the reliability issue, I would be telling everyone to stock up on them _now_ lol! ...it hurts me no end not to be able to do so with any real degree of safety/suredness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but "_who dares wins"?!!_...(although it might well be prudent to wait and see whether the more reliable (at present!) 12Ns do in fact come at least very _close_ to the ST12s...or even _equal_ them lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Cheers for now guys...


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Not taking any chances - I have both EL12N and EL12 on order.


----------



## MIKELAP

pctazhp said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > $1259 pre-order price. Reverts to $1399 after promotion period. Shipping is additional.
> ...


 
 I was quoted $1319.00 US including shipping to Canada when paying with Paypal they had a $40.00 U.S. surcharge that =  $1359.U.S. so that becomes $1770.CAD add duty and taxes.A couple years ago i paid $125. duty on a $650.00 amp .So it adds up kinda fast.unfortunately


----------



## connieflyer

That sure makes it hard to sell in some markets. My wife and I used to go up to Toronto a lot for entertainment, and had to pay the Vat on anything we brought back to the States, but were given forms to get rebate from Canadian government.  If Feliks Audio was a larger company, it would make sense to export them and warehouse in different locations. In my opinion one would think that the Polish government would not have an export tax on goods, as that would encourage more sales. But they did not ask me, and if I did not think it worth it I would not have bought the new amp. Just judging from my experience with the Elise, I think the new amp will be worth it. You may be interested in picking up a used Elise, as some members will be selling theirs when they get the new one.  I have already sold mine, I saw an add here that someone was looking to buy used, as made a nice deal for it.  Problem is being with out one.  Seems longer than it really is I suppose.


----------



## pctazhp

Longer - shorter. Time is just a number.


----------



## UntilThen

H1 that's a detailed review of EL11 and EL12. You are just as impressed with EL12 as I'm with EL12N.

Someday soon I'll get to hear EL12 but Euforia shipping is one month away. Lots to look forward to.


----------



## lukeap69

It's a shame that Feliks Audio cannot deduct VAT on individual orders, I could have ordered this and compare it to my Glenn OTL Darna. Lukas is very generous though to offer pre-order promo for this week. Such a nice gentleman.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Not taking any chances - I have both EL12N and EL12 on order.


 
  
 Now that's what I call *real *dedication, m...or could that just be @pctazhp's reminder of our _*craziness*_ lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








...Whatever...WELL DONE!...(let's all hope you have no problems with your ST12s - I'm fairly confident they will convert you to purely German/Polish combo...with your TFK EL11s, that is!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


untilthen said:


> H1 that's a detailed review of EL11 and EL12. You are just as impressed with EL12 as I'm with EL12N.
> 
> Someday soon I'll get to hear EL12 but Euforia shipping is one month away. Lots to look forward to.


 
  
 Thanks UT...getting more impressed by the day...these 12s really do need plenty of burn-in lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and while on this subject, I'm now more convinced than ever that it isn't just the tube itself that needs the time, but also its combination with the _amp_ - ie. the bias settings needed for the tube's optimum performance, which vary from tube to tube. And as it's the amp's _circuit_ that carries out the "auto/self biassing" (not the tube itself), then to my way of thinking, I would imagine this too could take a fair while to put in place fully when using tubes different to stock configuration. Which would also, therefore, make it absolutely essential to allow _*plenty*_ of time between changes of tubes from different families that require different bias settings..._*much *_longer, in fact, than I'm sure is often allowed when folks are doing multiple comparisons lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...food for thought, methinks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, you do indeed have _*lots*_ to look forward to...Euforia _and_ hopefully, one day, a functioning pair of the ST EL12s LOL!...and while on _this_ subject, you will most definitely have to get those HE560s back, because I reckon with the extra power of Euforia combined with that of the EL12(N)s, *planar magnetics* will perform _*much*_ better still...many of my tracks are now reaching full normal listening level at just vol. setting *4* of *20*!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  


lukeap69 said:


> It's a shame that Feliks Audio cannot deduct VAT on individual orders, I could have ordered this and compare it to my Glenn OTL Darna. Lukas is very generous though to offer pre-order promo for this week. Such a nice gentleman.


 
  
 Yes indeed, l69...*great* shame lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and would have loved to see how she compares to your Glenn OTL - _especially_ with the amazing EL11/EL12 combo!!


----------



## connieflyer

For vinyl users, this may be of interest.
  
  
https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/29/vinyl-record-production-tech-upgrade/


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> For vinyl users, this may be of interest.
> 
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/29/vinyl-record-production-tech-upgrade/


 
 Very interesting. I see things like this and miss my old vinyl days.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks UT...getting more impressed by the day...these 12s really do need plenty of burn-in lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeaah indeed. No quick changes of tubes with auto self biasing.  Elise is incredilbly adaptive to different tubes.
  
 I'll haul out the planar intergalatic again but it's hard to top the T1 for ultimate enjoyment. Is it just me that thinks the T1's the ultimate headphone for listening pleasure? Ah.... probably not. Lots of T1 owners here... happy owners I might add.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yeaah indeed. No quick changes of tubes with auto self biasing.  Elise is incredilbly adaptive to different tubes.
> 
> I'll haul out the planar intergalatic again but it's hard to top the T1 for ultimate enjoyment. Is it just me that thinks the T1's the ultimate headphone for listening pleasure? Ah.... probably not. Lots of T1 owners here... happy owners I might add.


 

 You may recall the agony (almost requiring hospitalization) I went through comparing T1 and HD800S. In the end it was really a toss up in terms of what brought me the most listening pleasure. I would certainly recommend any Elise/Euforia owner try the T1.
  
 I still think of someday buying a T1 as a companion headphone. In fact, if my most recent GoFundMe effort is successful, maybe I'll buy a T1, Utopia and a lifetime supply of Monk Vs


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> You may recall the agony (almost requiring hospitalization) I went through comparing T1 and HD800S. In the end it was really a toss up in terms of what brought me the most listening pleasure. I would certainly recommend any Elise/Euforia owner try the T1.
> 
> I still think of someday buying a T1 as a companion headphone. In fact, if my most recent GoFundMe effort is successful, maybe I'll buy a T1, Utopia and a lifetime supply of Monk Vs


 
  
 HD800 and HD800S are equally satisfying too so you shouldn't have regretted that your coin toss landed on tails. 
  
 I've heard both on Elise and I love it. Just need to pair it with the right tubes. Plus there are no other headphones as comfortable as those Senns and it's still a good looker after so many years. Someday I'll buy a companion HD800 too. 
  
 Edit:- Applies to Euforia too... of course.


----------



## connieflyer

Or we could all chip in and buy a Utopia, and just send it back and forth a month at a time.  I volunteer to use it first!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Or we could all chip in and buy a Utopia, and just send it back and forth a month at a time.  I volunteer to use it first!


 

 The postal service in Ukraine still operates under policies and procedures established by Rasputin so I'm out. I understand Australia still uses the Kangaroo Express. They are still trying to teach kangaroos to swim, so I doubt UT could participate either.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Yeaah indeed. No quick changes of tubes with auto self biasing.  Elise is incredilbly adaptive to different tubes.
> 
> *I'll haul out the planar intergalatic again but it's hard to top the T1 for ultimate enjoyment*. Is it just me that thinks the T1's the ultimate headphone for listening pleasure? Ah.... probably not. Lots of T1 owners here... happy owners I might add.


 
  
 Well UT, for what it's worth, the T1s (vers.1) are delivering more of _*everything*_ here with Euforia+EL11+ST EL12s to the degree where I simply can no longer imagine anyone wanting - or _needing_ - anything else whatsoever..._*period!!*_





...and certainly wouldn't want _*any*_ 'adjusting' whatsoever of either the original T1, (or the HD800 I suspect, therefore! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 With yet another day on my RFT EL12s, I am now beginning to seriously wonder how on Earth they can be sounding so good in an amp not specifically configured for these (and the EL11) tubes, even though this design of OTL amp (as with Elise) _is_ indeed much more flexible than one with an output transformer. On top of the improvements I mentioned last time, there are now the more subtle aspects of increased tonal range within each individual instrument and, of course, different voices...along with even better separation, positioning and overall balance. This is almost becoming rather silly lol!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. I have a feeling I know why those who already know about these EL12 & 12Ns prefer the older ST-shaped 12s...as so often happened, alas, later tubes obviously suffered from extensive cost-cutting alas - having removed the bases of my 12Ns, I was somewhat surprised (and disheartened!) by the evident poorer quality of construction, even though on the surface they look very 'nice' lol!
 For example, where the older 12s used copper wires to the pins, the 'N's are obviously more in the _steel_ line, with just a slight covering of copper as they exit the tube glass...there was rust on them!!!...have never encountered this before!! And closer examination still, shows they're not at all to the same standard as the older ST tubes. That they can still sound so good rather surprises me, actually!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...not to mention that they seem to be more 'reliable' LOL!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...seriously weird!...
  
 Anyway, this simply makes me even _more_ interested to see just how they compare, once I get the pair finished and up and running...will keep y'all informed...BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> Very interesting. I see things like this and miss my old vinyl days.


 

 Are you sure that is was your vinyl days and not Spandex?


----------



## thatonenoob

pctazhp said:


> You may recall the agony (almost requiring hospitalization) I went through comparing T1 and HD800S. In the end it was really a toss up in terms of what brought me the most listening pleasure. I would certainly recommend any Elise/Euforia owner try the T1.
> 
> I still think of someday buying a T1 as a companion headphone. In fact, if my most recent GoFundMe effort is successful, maybe I'll buy a T1, Utopia and a lifetime supply of Monk Vs


 
 I agree.  T1 is excellent on the Feliks amps I've tried so far.  In fact, it's quite excellent in general when paired properly.  As one of the cheaper flagships, it is still super competitive, a true testament to more money doesn't mean better (and kicks the crap out of some overpriced stuff, to be unnamed).  To put things in perspective, for the price of one of the newer "flagships", one can buy the T1, Elise or Euforia, and still have a few bucks left over.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Are you sure that is was your vinyl days and not Spandex?


 

 So funny)))) I just hope your post won't inspire UT to illustrate it with one of his Borat photos


----------



## pctazhp

thatonenoob said:


> I agree.  T1 is excellent on the Feliks amps I've tried so far.  In fact, it's quite excellent in general when paired properly.  As one of the cheaper flagships, it is still super competitive, a true testament to more money doesn't mean better (and kicks the crap out of some overpriced stuff, to be unnamed).  To put things in perspective, for the price of one of the newer "flagships", one can buy the T1, Elise or Euforia, and still have a few bucks left over.


 

 You make a great point about the relatively reasonable price of the T1. Sometimes I think its "flagship status" is unfairly tainted by its price compared to other flagship products. From all I can tell, T1 is a true flagship product in every sense of the world and doesn't have to take a back seat to other flagships.


----------



## pctazhp

Grey is the new Red 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    @hypnos1; this photo taken in the prone position after I climbed down from the chandelier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can easily say this EL11 TFK/EL12 ST Siemens combo is by far the worst combo I have yet to hear in Elise. I'll report back more after I have bought every EL11 and EL12 I can get my hands on


----------



## mordy

Here are two flagships:
  




 I guess you have to be a little nuts to make the association......
  
 There was this Russian PhD student in English who came to visit the US. He was standing in line to pay in a supermarket. In front of him two women were carrying on a conversation. One of the women says to the other: I can't take it any more - my kids are driving me nuts! I am going bananas!
  
 The PhD student translates this to Russian in his mind and thinks to himself: These people must be crazy!


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


>




I must say that this looks very nice.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> I must say that this looks very nice.


 

 Thanks. I like the "classic" look. Wish I had H1's renovation skills ))))
  
 Hint:  Its looks don't even begin to hint at how it sounds))))))


----------



## UntilThen

I'll trade my silent EL12 for yours.


----------



## aqsw

I've boughten into the el12 hype . Cannot get into the 11 hype, as I have 8 el3ns. As soon as I wear those out, I will order some el11s. 

I've gotta feeling I won't make it that long:mad:


----------



## thatonenoob

pctazhp said:


> You make a great point about the relatively reasonable price of the T1. Sometimes I think its "flagship status" is unfairly tainted by its price compared to other flagship products. From all I can tell, T1 is a true flagship product in every sense of the world and doesn't have to take a back seat to other flagships.


 
 Alas, we cannot fix the current price inflation that's occurring.  Unfortunate indeed.  Btw, nice setup.  Mine more or less mirrors yours right now.   Minus the hd800.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well UT, for what it's worth, the T1s (vers.1) are delivering more of _*everything*_ here with Euforia+EL11+ST EL12s to the degree where I simply can no longer imagine anyone wanting - or _needing_ - anything else whatsoever..._*period!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 About 3 weeks ago I did a report of EL11 with various power tubes.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/5070#post_13152754
  
 With the arrival of EL12N, all that pales in comparison. EL11 and EL12N combination sounds stunning in Elise on the T1. I'm just as curious as you are on how EL12N compares with EL12, You're probably going to sample that before I do so I'm looking forward to your report.
  
 Looks like Pct loves Telefunken EL11 and Siemens EL12 combination. Sure looks very smart on Elise.
  
 Btw your descriptions above in bold are also my experience with EL11 and EL12N.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> In my sleep, I heard my name called out several times. Elise does magical things as per your statement in bold above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great!
 I have a couple of Valvo EL12ST hopefully heading this way from some far flung corner of Eastern Europe. Should be interesting to sonically compare to EL12N, assuming at least one of these new ST's work.


----------



## HOWIE13

aqsw said:


> Anybody know when xulingmrs is back in business?


 
 4th Feb, I think.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Great!
> I have a couple of Valvo EL12ST hopefully heading this way from some far flung corner of Eastern Europe. Should be interesting.


 
  
 I've 2 Telefunken EL12 coming from wege-high-fidelity in Germany. If it doesn't work, I'll complain to Mona Lisa.


----------



## thatonenoob

untilthen said:


> I've 2 Telefunken EL12 coming from wege-high-fidelity in Germany. If it doesn't work, I'll complain to Mona Lisa.


----------



## HOWIE13

aqsw said:


> I've boughten into the el12 hype . Cannot get into the 11 hype, as I have 8 el3ns. As soon as I wear those out, I will order some el11s.
> 
> I've gotta feeling I won't make it that long:mad:


 
 You won't!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I've boughten into the el12 hype . Cannot get into the 11 hype, as I have 8 el3ns. As soon as I wear those out, I will order some el11s.
> 
> I've gotta feeling I won't make it that long:mad:


 
  
 You're forgiven because EL3N and EL12N sound very good too BUT EL11 gives that added 10% that tips the scale towards par excellence. When you tee off at par 5, you want the right driver for the job. It will take your ball round that dog leg, to line up at the green with just one shot.


----------



## pctazhp

I'm naming my EL11/EL12 combo "Jolly Trail" only because I'm tired of the term "Holy Grail". I won't try to improve upon @hynos1 description. Image isn't exact but good enough for this early in the morning.


----------



## pctazhp

Drawing only 4.2 amps (I think) of heater current, Elise is running as cool as Mona Lisa's smile


----------



## DavidA

Hi everyone, I have a question that any of you might be able to answer, do you know what is the output impedance of the of either the Elise or Euforia with the various tubes you are using?  The reason I ask is for using the Elise or Euforia with low impedance headphones, or more specifically planar headphones.  When I tried the Elise with the stock tubes and my HE-560 the sound was not good so does the Euforia change this?


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> Hi everyone, I have a question that any of you might be able to answer, do you know what is the output impedance of the of either the Elise or Euforia with the various tubes you are using?  The reason I ask is for using the Elise or Euforia with low impedance headphones, or more specifically planar headphones.  When I tried the Elise with the stock tubes and my HE-560 the sound was not good so does the Euforia change this?


 

 Sorry David. I don't know much about impedance and nothing about planars.


----------



## pctazhp

And I've been trying to resist posting this all morning, but I can no longer. Is that @hynos1 on the drums?????


----------



## pctazhp

I was country when country or Elise wasn't cool.


----------



## connieflyer

I read the automatic biography of Jerry lee Lewis, and delving into the pages I found out he was classical trained, pianist.  But due to his excessive driinking, he started playing everything in 4/4 time or 8/4 time because his kidneys gave out and he had to make frequent head calls!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I read the automatic biography of Jerry lee Lewis, and delving into the pages I found out he was classical trained, pianist.  But due to his excessive driinking, he started playing everything in 4/4 time or 8/4 time because his kidneys gave out and he had to make frequent head calls!


 

 I've been wondering where you were this morning. For a while I was here all by myself. That's ok because no one can yell at me, but it got me to wondering if a post is really a post if no one is around to read it.
  
 I saw Jerry Lee live in 1965. In fact I got to stand right next to him and his piano. I thought it might attract nurses, but all it got me was being run over by him as he was dashing to the head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW, where can I find a list of "automatic" biographies?


----------



## connieflyer

It is listed in the song Automatic for the People.  Relax concentrate on this picture and seek peace! Lake Michigan Warren Dunes state park


----------



## connieflyer

Music for meditation PCT


----------



## UntilThen

davida said:


> Hi everyone, I have a question that any of you might be able to answer, do you know what is the output impedance of the of either the Elise or Euforia with the various tubes you are using?  The reason I ask is for using the Elise or Euforia with low impedance headphones, or more specifically planar headphones.  When I tried the Elise with the stock tubes and my HE-560 the sound was not good so does the Euforia change this?


 
  
 All I know is that FA claims that Elise will handle headphones in the range 32 to 600 ohms.
  
 Even the opposition says that Elise did absolutely fine with Senn HD600, Sony MA900 and even HFM HE560 adding that this low Z headphone measured with no bass roll off. Nice clarity, transient response and microdynamics that only good tube implementation can pull off.
  
 This Elise review by Soundperfection claims Elise drove his HE500 with authority. This was the review of Elise that appears on Feliks Audio site.
 http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2016/09/review-feliks-audio-elise-otl-valve-amp.html
  
 I've certainly found no muddying of tones using HE560 with Elise but I have used mainly C3G and 5998 or EL3N and 5998 on Elise when listening to HE560 in the past.
  
 I believe @aqsw really loves what he hears from Ether-C with Elise using EL3N and Svetlana 6N13C.
  
@jerick70 before he sold off his Elise, even loves what he hears on his LCD2 with Elise. He was using EL3N and Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## HOWIE13

davida said:


> Hi everyone, I have a question that any of you might be able to answer, do you know what is the output impedance of the of either the Elise or Euforia with the various tubes you are using?  The reason I ask is for using the Elise or Euforia with low impedance headphones, or more specifically planar headphones.  When I tried the Elise with the stock tubes and my HE-560 the sound was not good so does the Euforia change this?


 
 Think I read 50 ohms, somewhere.


----------



## DavidA

Thanks for all the replies about the output impedance.  I was informed by some of the posters in the BottleHead thread that the output impedance of the BH Crack changes depending on which tubes are used and it can vary quite a bit from 50ohms up to 120ohms IIRC, which in turn changes the sound quite a bit with some headphones like the HE-560, HD-650, Ether/Ether C so I'm thinking that those who like the some of these headphones on the Elise might be using tubes/combos which lower the output impedance much lower than with the stock tubes.  Does anyone know how to calculate the output impedance with the various tube combos, still trying to see if Elise or Euforia can be my do it all amp.


----------



## thatonenoob

davida said:


> Thanks for all the replies about the output impedance.  I was informed by some of the posters in the BottleHead thread that the output impedance of the BH Crack changes depending on which tubes are used and it can vary quite a bit from 50ohms up to 120ohms IIRC, which in turn changes the sound quite a bit with some headphones like the HE-560, HD-650, Ether/Ether C so I'm thinking that those who like the some of these headphones on the Elise might be using tubes/combos which lower the output impedance much lower than with the stock tubes.  Does anyone know how to calculate the output impedance with the various tube combos, still trying to see if Elise or Euforia can be my do it all amp.


 
 You can always measure the output impedance via DMM.   Cut an old cable with 3.5 plug, hook that up to a jack and then toss on dummy loads (try with real headphones/ earphones).  Alternatively, you could go the whole way and solder a bunch of dummy loads with resistors, but that's another story.   I have asked Feliks about how they achieve this and will let you know when I get a reply!


----------



## DavidA

thatonenoob said:


> You can always measure the output impedance via DMM.   Cut an old cable with 3.5 plug, hook that up to a jack and then toss on dummy loads (try with real headphones/ earphones).  Alternatively, you could go the whole way and solder a bunch of dummy loads with resistors, but that's another story.   I have asked Feliks about how they achieve this and will let you know when I get a reply!


 
 DMM? Digital Multi-Meter?  I'm a civil engineer so my electrical knowledge is limited to wet my finger and put it in the socket to see if there is current 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just kidding) but could you point me to some material that I might read to get some info on this output impedance?


----------



## mordy

(image missing)


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy your post sounds like my EL12. Pure silence.


----------



## Oskari

Yes, where are the photos?


----------



## UntilThen

Today I am still astounded by this EL11 and EL12N combination. I cannot believe that more than one year down the track, Elise continues to soar with the arrival of these tubes. They are that good.
  
 Mona Lisa smiles when she hears it.


----------



## pctazhp

I'm checking myself into rehab this afternoon. I just ordered a NOS RFT pair of EL12N tubes, just to make ABSOLUTELY sure whether they might be better than my Siemens EL12 ST tubes, which I have been listening to all day while swinging from chandelier to chandelier. THIS HAS SIMPLY GOT TO STOP!!!


----------



## pctazhp

For @connieflyer


----------



## thatonenoob

untilthen said:


> Today I am still astounded by this EL11 and EL12N combination. I cannot believe that more than one year down the track, Elise continues to soar with the arrival of these tubes. They are that good.
> 
> Mona Lisa smiles when she hears it.


 
 To be perfectly honest, I did a double take there. Didn't know it was a gif....


----------



## Oskari

_Lake Garda_







_Not today, not this week. 
_


----------



## DavidA

The right one is my new toy, just finished building it today


----------



## thatonenoob

davida said:


> The right one is my new toy, just finished building it today


 
 Looks great!


----------



## pctazhp

davida said:


> The right one is *my new toy*, just finished building it today


 

  
 PS to @connieflyer. You enjoyed the first one so much, I'm selecting more George of the Jungle videos for your evening entertainment.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I wanted to post a panoramic picture I took today with my iPhone, but I cannot send it. The picture is 12MB and a screen pops up and says that the limit is 10MB. I can see the picture on the screen with my message, but once I send it, it disappears.
  
 Would appreciate advice on how to post and print these pictures. You set the camera to Pano and them move the phone following an arrow and a line, sweeping the horizon. I can look at the pictures, but cannot post them. My printing program will only allow one portion of the picture to print, and not the entire panorama.
  
 Re printing, in the past I would magnify the picture and print it out on several sheets and then tape them together, but I am not able to with the panoramic pictures from the iPhone.


----------



## connieflyer

I got a call from @Untilthen and he said that you were the only one that could save us, is that true?  If so, I am lost for sure!  Your fan club sends this to you.........


----------



## pctazhp

He is grossly overstating my importance. I'm the one who put the bomp in the bomp-schu-bomp-de-bomp-de-bomp
  

  
 How long can you go without hearing this one again?????


----------



## connieflyer

You seem upset tonite PCT could it be ....


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, @connieflyer. Consider yourself lucky. My wi-fi connection keeps dropping out and I have to reboot to restore it. Just like back in the good old Win 95 days. Except I guess we didn't have wi-fi back then.
  
 I bet the Indians never ran out of wood for their smoke signals.
  
 Where is my Idiot Turkey when I need him????


----------



## pctazhp

You can only imagine the degree of your misfortune from never having seen my Righteous Brothers imitation.


----------



## pctazhp

Oh, and don't you feel so lucky to be enjoying all this wonderful music with a stellar OTL tube amp? Oh sorry. I forgot you don't have one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EL11/12 is creating a virtual live concert in my room tonight. The Platters, Righteous Brother, two chicks in the park, George. They are all right here tonight.


----------



## connieflyer

Play this on Elise and see if it is tough enough!


----------



## connieflyer

PCT I am signing off for tonight, but before I do, this is just up your alley, only 50 songs just to get you to midnight


----------



## DavidA

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I wanted to post a panoramic picture I took today with my iPhone, but I cannot send it. The picture is 12MB and a screen pops up and says that the limit is 10MB. I can see the picture on the screen with my message, but once I send it, it disappears.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you have a way of editing the picture?  Use photoshop or a similar program to reduce the resolution from say 300dpi to 150dpi, will shrink the file by 4


----------



## mordy

Hi David,
  
 I used an image resizer and reduced the picture 75% - let's see if the post takes it.
  





  
 This is Lake Kawanauke in NY


----------



## DecentLevi

davida said:


> Thanks for all the replies about the output impedance.  I was informed by some of the posters in the BottleHead thread that the output impedance of the BH Crack changes depending on which tubes are used and it can vary quite a bit from 50ohms up to 120ohms IIRC, which in turn changes the sound quite a bit with some headphones like the HE-560, HD-650, Ether/Ether C so I'm thinking that those who like the some of these headphones on the Elise might be using tubes/combos which lower the output impedance much lower than with the stock tubes.  Does anyone know how to calculate the output impedance with the various tube combos, still trying to see if Elise or Euforia can be my do it all amp.


 
 interesting point David! Looks like output impedance according to tube types has a lot to do with headphone synergy, and probably has a lot to do with how some specific combos sound tailor made for one headphone, but poor on another. Maybe measurements would help headphone matching, though I just go by audible synergy


----------



## DecentLevi

Quick questions about EL12 tubes:
  
 Does anyone have any knowledge of sonic differences between ST-shaped EL12 Siemens vs. the narrower RFT / Telefunken EL12's?
  
 Also what about test matching of these? I'm thinking of snagging a 'pair' with one at 23ma and the other at 27ma... they both look identical and are from the same seller... my concern is if both are likely to produce the same sound _and _matched volume, or would this likely cause a channel imbalance?


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Quick questions about EL12 tubes:
> 
> Does anyone have any knowledge of sonic differences between ST-shaped EL12 Siemens vs. the narrower RFT / Telefunken EL12's?
> 
> Also what about test matching of these? I'm thinking of snagging a 'pair' with one at 23ma and the other at 27ma... they both look identical and are from the same seller... my concern is if both are likely to produce the same sound _and _matched volume, or would this likely cause a channel imbalance?


 
  
 Answer to your first question is I don't think so.
  
 As to those tube readings, if those are plate currents for an EL12, measured at the conventional characteristic Va of 250V and Vg of - 7V then they are very low as the 100% level is 72mA. 
  
 They are a bit more acceptable for an EL11, but still not very good. Are those measurements definitely for an EL12?
  
 I wouldn't normally buy any tube lower than about 68-70%, even though I take most readings with a pinch of salt- those really are too low for EL12.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I'm checking myself into rehab this afternoon. I just ordered a NOS RFT pair of EL12N tubes, just to make ABSOLUTELY sure whether they might be better than my Siemens EL12 ST tubes, which I have been listening to all day while swinging from chandelier to chandelier. THIS HAS SIMPLY GOT TO STOP!!!


 
  
 Sorry pct....but you're WAY past rehab, my poor friend!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And by the way, the _chandeliers_ were meant to be saved for Euforia, you faithless hussy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 (All I can say is if folks don't start getting their amps very soon now, a raging epidemic of insanity is going to engulf head-fi.org lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


howie13 said:


> Answer to your first question is I don't think so.
> 
> As to those tube readings, if those are plate currents for an EL12, measured at the conventional characteristic Va of 250V and Vg of - 7V then they are very low as the 100% level is 72mA.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting point here H13...on several occasions I've noticed listings of 12'N's especially (and even ST12 _Spezial_) with 100% stated as more  like that for the EL11 - ie. about 36mA!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now, given the 12 should be double the power output of the 11, and triode-strapping halves it, I'm wondering whether perhaps those lower (supposed) 100% EL12 readings are in fact based on triode-strapped, as opposed to full pentode?!...but if so, it's still strange this wouldn't be mentioned in the listings LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...more mystery surrounding these wonderful tubes!


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry pct....but you're WAY past rehab, my poor friend!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's possible though a tube tester would probably not be wired to 'strap' the pentode tube. If it was, as you say, it should be noted by the tester otherwise the measurements are very misleading indeed.


----------



## pctazhp

I don't want to be a "faithless hussy" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I don't want a mansion down in the valley. I just wann'a shack-up in the hills.


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, last time I heard a rim shot, was on the perimeter at Danang!


----------



## connieflyer

So much for Connors prediction for early Spring, 12 degrees F this morning, good thing about it, I walked alot faster!


----------



## connieflyer

Any chance these can be used in Euforia?   http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tube-POPE-Philips-4699-METAL-BASE-EL6-425-PREDECESSOR-of-EL34-EL12-EL61-/232163703658?hash=item360e08fb6a:g:vUMAAOSw2s1UwX8c
  
  
 Some beautiful tubes, would look great on amp. After company leaves you might have to change back to working tubes, but they sure make a nice statement


----------



## connieflyer

another set of four, good pictures, but I have questions about tube number 2. Black coating at top and white spot near base in getter flash, price seems fair though if good
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Tungsram-vintage-Tube-Best-sounding-pentode-Choose1-/112264422371?var=&hash=item1a237b23e3mPnT4O17-zuy4K6CxzioFmg
  
 By the time Euphoria gets into other hands, we will be over a hundred pages!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> another set of four, good pictures, but I have questions about tube number 2. Black coating at top and white spot near base in getter flash, price seems fair though if good
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Tungsram-vintage-Tube-Best-sounding-pentode-Choose1-/112264422371?var=&hash=item1a237b23e3mPnT4O17-zuy4K6CxzioFmg
> 
> By the time Euphoria gets into other hands, we will be over a hundred pages!


 

 The price is more than good. I don't know about the second tube or the Tungsram version of EL12s. But the seller offers a 14-day return, although shipping is pretty pricey. Oh, I keep forgetting you don't have a tube amp. Sorry, I'm really not trying to rub that in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally. If it were me I'd take a chance on them. But you can always send them to me for safekeeping. They'll be available for pick-up in Ukraine whenever you want.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Any chance these can be used in Euforia?   http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tube-POPE-Philips-4699-METAL-BASE-EL6-425-PREDECESSOR-of-EL34-EL12-EL61-/232163703658?hash=item360e08fb6a:g:vUMAAOSw2s1UwX8c
> 
> 
> Some beautiful tubes, would look great on amp. After company leaves you might have to change back to working tubes, but they sure make a nice statement


 

 Color is a matter of personal preference.
  

  
 Did you ask a question????


----------



## pctazhp

I certainly don’t want to “rub” anyone the wrong way, so I’ll attempt to get back on topic. While I have found at least several combos that I could easily enjoy and never feel I needed to look back (if I didn’t suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder), EL11/12 is my favorite combo. It is my favorite by a considerable margin, but as we often say, there are so many variables.
  
 For me, it is the “intimacy” with the music that impresses me more than anything. By that I don’t mean first-row vs tenth-row, but a natural connection with the music. I could try to describe what I hear in more detail, but I’m burned out on both audiophile terms and OTT language expressing pure euphoria. I’ll save the OTT stuff for when I finally hear Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm checking myself into rehab this afternoon. I just ordered a NOS RFT pair of EL12N tubes, just to make ABSOLUTELY sure whether they might be better than my Siemens EL12 ST tubes, which I have been listening to all day while swinging from chandelier to chandelier. THIS HAS SIMPLY GOT TO STOP!!!


 
  
 I too wonder why the EL11 and EL12N combo sound so good, it's cutting edge. It's almost 3 weeks now ... well I've lost count with work and the days going by so fast. These tubes are sounding so good my other tubes are sitting redundant.
  
 51 of these adapters sold already. That was fast. Year of the Rooster must have been good for Mrs Xu Ling.
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-EL11-EL12-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201726996830?hash=item2ef7ddb15e:g:rxEAAOSwEzxYaHTz
  
  


mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I wanted to post a panoramic picture I took today with my iPhone, but I cannot send it. The picture is 12MB and a screen pops up and says that the limit is 10MB. I can see the picture on the screen with my message, but once I send it, it disappears.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you found out how to do it with David's help. Nice picture. My pictures are all taken with Nikon D5100 and Nikkor 18-55mm.
  


connieflyer said:


> By the time Euphoria gets into other hands, we will be over a hundred pages!


 
  
 That is so true.


----------



## UntilThen

Who requested this dual EL12spez? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very adventurous I must say.
  
 I must say I'm over with quad power tubes in Elise because EL12N is more than sufficient.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I certainly don’t want to “rub” anyone the wrong way, so I’ll attempt to get back on topic. While I have found at least several combos that I could easily enjoy and never feel I needed to look back (if I didn’t suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder), EL11/12 is my favorite combo. It is my favorite by a considerable margin, but as we often say, there are so many variables.
> 
> For me, it is the “intimacy” with the music that impresses me more than anything. By that I don’t mean first-row vs tenth-row, but a natural connection with the music. I could try to describe what I hear in more detail, but I’m burned out on both audiophile terms and OTT language expressing pure euphoria. I’ll save the OTT stuff for when I finally hear Euforia.


 
  
 Don't be lazy Pct. You're going to dig into your lexicon and give us a 2 pages write-up on your latest wonder combination that makes you swing from tree to tree.
  
 Now I regret advising you to buy the Siemens EL12 instead of getting it myself.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Don't be lazy Pct. You're going to dig into your lexicon and give us a 2 pages write-up on your latest wonder combination that makes you swing from tree to tree.
> 
> Now I regret advising you to buy the Siemens EL12 instead of getting it myself.


 

 Not lazy at all. I lost my lexicon last week and they are back-ordered on Amazon.
  
 Life is full of what-might-have-beens. I might have been handsome.
  
 I hate myself when I post stupid stuff like this. The rehab center is threatening to cut off my internet rights. They say it is bad for my self-esteem.


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, sorry to intrude but would you give me an opinion on post #5976 at the Elise thread?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Not lazy at all. I lost my lexicon last week and they are back-ordered on Amazon.
> 
> Life is full of what-might-have-beens. I might have been handsome.
> 
> I hate myself when I post stupid stuff like this. The rehab center is threatening to cut off my internet rights. They say it is bad for my self-esteem.


 
  
 Look Captain, a moment of uncertainty doesn't mean you're unfit to lead the battalion. We're at our strongest when we realised our weakness. Nothing that a bit of grog can't fix... or lots of it.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> That's possible though a tube tester would probably not be wired to 'strap' the pentode tube. If it was, as you say, it should be noted by the tester otherwise the measurements are very misleading indeed.


 
  
 Must admit it was just a shot in the dark re. possible triode-strapped measurements at 36mA -  I simply cannot understand the 36/72mA figures both supposedly being "100%" lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...no doubt _someone_ will come up with a full explanation?!!!....(@Oskari? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  


pctazhp said:


> I don't want to be a "faithless hussy"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 Here you go again, f-h...Euforia _deserves_ that mansion in the valley...not an iffy electricity supply somewhere up in them there hills lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. many hills in Ukraine?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


connieflyer said:


> another set of four, good pictures, but I have questions about tube number 2. Black coating at top and white spot near base in getter flash, price seems fair though if good
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL12-Tungsram-vintage-Tube-Best-sounding-pentode-Choose1-/112264422371?var=&hash=item1a237b23e3mPnT4O17-zuy4K6CxzioFmg
> 
> By the time Euphoria gets into other hands, we will be over a hundred pages!


 
  
 Hey, cf....re. your post about those 4699s, I reckon we're back to the old question...straight glass vs "Coke Bottles" lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I know which _*I*_ prefer!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And as for those Tungsrams...they have answered a question I and @mordy were wondering about - ie. whether these, and other Philips(?) stable EL12s differ in plate design from the Telefunken/RFT, as with the EL11...and the answer is _*YES!!!*_  Your pic shows they definitely have the Philips _*oval*_ design plates!
  
 And so the question then of course is, will they sound a good bit different, in the way the EL11s do?....yet _*more*_ questions/mystery surrounding these 12s!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Who requested this dual EL12spez?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah UT...in our amps _*one*_ EL12 is _*more*_ than sufficient lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...with the added bonus of only drawing 1.2A heater current. The transformer should be able to go on _forever_..._no sweat!!!_


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Those Tungsram EL12 tubes look nice. The white spot you mention seems to be some white paint on the glass and not indicative of a vacuum problem. But pricey to me at $69 each + shipping.......
  
 About measurements: To the best of my knowledge each tester measures differently according to how it was designed. It seem that most of the EL11/12 tubes are measured with a Funke W14 tester. It appears to me that each tube family has a paper template to put on top of the testing scale in order to get the accurate reading for that specific tube. Various sections on the paper template are labelled with not usable, usable and Good.
  
 Look at the measurements of this EL11 tube:
  
  
  




  
 It measures 27. The minimum good is 18, and it seems to me that 100% is around 36. Some tubes even exceed 100%, measuring 40. According to this, even a tube measuring 10 is usable.
  
 Would appreciate comments if my impressions are correct or wrong.
  
 Given that these tubes are supposed to last 10,000 hours, I am personally not afraid if it measures in the 20s.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Here you go again, f-h...Euforia _deserves_ that mansion in the valley...not an iffy electricity supply somewhere up in them there hills lol!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Uncontrolled belly laughing not sitting well with my breakfast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 Why do you think I'm moving to Ukraine???? Of course there are hills


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Must admit it was just a shot in the dark re. possible triode-strapped measurements at 36mA -  I simply cannot understand the 36/72mA figures both supposedly being "100%" lol!!  ...no doubt _someone_ will come up with a full explanation?!!!....(@Oskari? :wink_face: )...







mordy said:


> To the best of my knowledge each tester measures differently according to how it was designed.




That's the core of it. A single mA reading is pointless unless you know how the tube should measure in the tester used.


----------



## UntilThen

For my dear friends Pct and CF. For all the oldies you have played for me. This one came out the year I left the army. Freedom !!! and to adulthood, marriage, children and responsibilities but they were good times.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> For my dear friends Pct and CF. For all the oldies you have played for me. This one came out the year I left the army. Freedom !!! and to adulthood, marriage, children and responsibilities but they were good times.





 Thanks UT. Great song. I too somehow missed that group. The old times were good. But got even better when family entered the picture )))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Who requested this dual EL12spez?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Quad-Schmad ((( Power to the One Tube Per Socket Party. We will rule the world


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Thanks UT. Great song. I too somehow missed that group. The old times were good. But got even better when family entered the picture )))


 
  
 And the initials UT have stuck. When I join Head-Fi, I thought I will make a few posts and then say goodbye and until then. Little did I know I'll still be here a year and a half later. )))
  
 Seriously I still haven't work out what pctazhp means. Why did you choose that? connieflyer I can understand. I thought she was Connie Francis. )))


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> And the initials UT have stuck. When I join Head-Fi, I thought I will make a few posts and then say goodbye and until then. Little did I know I'll still be here a year and a half later. )))
> 
> Seriously I still haven't work out what pctazhp means. Why did you choose that? connieflyer I can understand. I thought she was Connie Francis. )))


 

 I hate the name pctazhp. When I was registering on HeadFi I tried one name and it wasn't available. So I just tried to come up with something no one else would possible choose. PCT are my initials. AZ is the great state of Arizona. HP is Happy Person. No, not really. It's Headphone. It never occurred to me I'd be stuck with that name until the Roosters came home to roost.
  
 I think CF worries about where the chicks are; not Where the Boys Are.


----------



## connieflyer

I think I know what he pct stand for. But I can't say it out loud but I know oh yes I know. Sorry to say it wasn't Connie Francis she was hot hot hot and I was not not not.


----------



## connieflyer

I nailed his initials. Unfortunately now that I'm old and wise I know where the girls are just can't catch them anymore


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I think I know what he pct stand for. But I can't say it out loud but I know oh yes I know. Sorry to say it wasn't Connie Francis she was hot hot hot and I was not not not.


 

 Au contraire CF. Connie was indeed hot, but she didn't deserve to bathe your feet at night. Oh why did I think of that??? The rest of the day I won't be able to get rid of a vision of your feet at night


----------



## UntilThen

Ah I thought you're Phil Collins something something...
  
 good song


----------



## connieflyer

Same here. I get this feeling that if this trend continues the way it is H1 and Feliks audio is going to disown us all


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> 
> Those Tungsram EL12 tubes look nice. The white spot you mention seems to be some white paint on the glass and not indicative of a vacuum problem. But pricey to me at $69 each + shipping.......
> 
> ...



Thanks for clarifying that Mordy. So would anyone presume that a pair with one measuring 23ma and the other 27, would be likely to cause a channel imbalance?

Also about those Tungsram EL12's. Is it a good thing to have a round plate? But however what's not to say they may suffer the same 'dead on arrival' syndrome as the Valvo's?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ah I thought you're Phil Collins something something...
> 
> good song


 
 Just call me Judy Judy Judy.
  
 I think H1 has already disowned us. I suspect this thread is now just a decoy and he has started another Euforia thread which, under stern warning from FA, he won't tell us about.
  
 Edit:  And don't call me Shirley


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Thanks for clarifying that Moody. So would anyone presume that a pair with one measuring 23ma and the other 27, would be likely to cause a channel imbalance?
> 
> Also about those Tungsram EL12's. Is it a good thing to have a round plate? But however what's not to say they may suffer the same 'dead on arrival' syndrome as the Valvo's?


 
  
 Not so concern about channel imbalance. More concern about whether it will produce any sound. 
  
 Don't quite like the Tungsram brand. Not all Valvos are bad. This looks like a Siemens clone with a killer $245 a pair price.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  will give us an update on EL12N vs EL12 soon.
  
 In a private message to me, he mentioned that the EL12N sounds fantastic partnered with one EL12. That is before he has both EL12N adapted.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 I would not worry about channel imbalance with those values.
  
 I once asked Feliks if there is a problem using a dual triode driver where one side measures 100% and the other say 60%. He answered that it would not be much of a problem except that the sound stage may not be centered if I remember correctly.
  
 I would not pay attention to the shape of the plates unless it was for identifying purposes in looking for a specific tube. In other words, it seems to have been a lot of cross branding of these tubes and the same tube being made in different factories and countries.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> That's the core of it. A single mA reading is pointless unless you know how the tube should measure in the tester used.


 
  
 Yo, Oskari...wish those listers were much more forthcoming on _precisely _how their own particular testers relate to others used lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thanks anyway...and to @mordy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pctazhp said:


> Just call me Judy Judy Judy.
> 
> I think H1 has already disowned us. I suspect this thread is now just a decoy and he has started another Euforia thread which, under stern warning from FA, he won't tell us about.
> 
> Edit:  And don't call me Shirley




  
 Ssssshhhhh, pct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  will give us an update on EL12N vs EL12 soon.
> 
> In a private message to me, he mentioned that the EL12N sounds fantastic partnered with one EL12. That is before he has both EL12N adapted.


 
  
 Yes indeed UT, and folks....much to my surprise - given my initial disappointment in certain constuction elements quality upon removing the old base - the first 12N, combined with an ST12, really is sounding extremely good. And considering the ridiculously cheap price of even NOS RFT examples, these must surely be a bargain too good to miss!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially as these versions are proving much more reliable than the "Coke Bottle" ST 12s lol! And although I'm still awaiting a formal 'OK' from F-A, several of us have now been running the 12s (&Ns) for a good many hours with no apparent nasty side-effects..._as of yet!_





...Congrats must go to @HOWIE13 for bravely trying out the 12N in the first instance...the way they synergise with the EL11 is just perfect...(perhaps designed that way from the off, by those Masters at Telefunken lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


decentlevi said:


> Thanks for clarifying that Moody. So would anyone presume that a pair with one measuring 23ma and the other 27, would be likely to cause a channel imbalance?
> 
> Also about those Tungsram EL12's. Is it a good thing to have a round plate? But however what's not to say they may suffer the same 'dead on arrival' syndrome as the Valvo's?


 
  
 I personally imagine no-one would be able to notice any imbalance whatsoever...and if there _were_ imbalance of any kind, I'm quite sure it would be entirely down to factors other than mA readings...signal from the driver, for starters lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but even this isn't quite so straightforward....for example, I have one EL11 driver @24mA partnering one @36mA, driving two EL12s that differ by several mA at least...and there isn't the slightest hint of imbalance!
  
 So in the end, many of these 'readings' simply cannot be a reliable guide to just how a set of tubes will end up performing together...trial and error, plus _*luck!*_ would seem to be the order of the day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Re. the Tungsrams (and other Philips design _oval_ plates) vs the TFK _round_ ones, at the moment we can only surmise that _perhaps_ they might differ in the same way as the _oval_-plated EL3N (and EL11) does from the 'true' TFK _round_ plate 11. But until someone can compare the two together, we just can't know lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And to confuse matters even more, there are red-skirted Tungsrams with plates that look quite different again...although still with _round_ cylinders!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> I would not worry about channel imbalance with those values.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...sorry, but my findings have proved otherwise re. _oval_ vs _round_ plated EL11s...the ovals are _*definitely*_ more like the EL3N in presentation..._*much*_ different to the round-plated versions...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## attmci

decentlevi said:


> Thanks for clarifying that Moody. So would anyone presume that a pair with one measuring 23ma and the other 27, would be likely to cause a channel imbalance?
> 
> Also about those Tungsram EL12's. Is it a good thing to have a round plate? But however what's not to say they may suffer the same 'dead on arrival' syndrome as the Valvo's?


 

 Guess who is selling this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-5998-2399-421A-replacement-/272523578533?hash=item3f73abcca5:g:6oEAAOSwNnRYfGrz


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. I've finally figured out how you can start listening to music again until your Euforia arrives:
  
 https://smile.amazon.com/Elenco-EDU-3010-Edu-Toys-Crystal-Radio/dp/B002HZXSQY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1486181870&sr=8-2&keywords=crystal+radio+kit


----------



## UntilThen

His Euforia is landing in 4 weeks time. Shouldn't be long.

Btw price has revert to $1399 now.


----------



## HOWIE13

attmci said:


> Guess who is selling this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-5998-2399-421A-replacement-/272523578533?hash=item3f73abcca5:g:6oEAAOSwNnRYfGrz


 
 Don't recognise that seller but at least he is quoting the expected 'good' range for his tester readings, unlike some sellers we have been discussing lately.


----------



## connieflyer

can't believe you actually found it I had one of those when I was a kid a crystal radio with a little tuning coil I was the coolest kid on the Block. It was even cooler than the string telephones that we ran across the street if you hadn't used those you just weren't there at all. Cheap to I appreciate your concern over my Miss music listening
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_can_telephone
We had one like this stretched between houses across the street from each other. Really neat, String did not last long in the rain or snow, back then it was cotton twine not polyester or nylon.


----------



## connieflyer

howie13 said:


> Don't recognise that seller but at least he is quoting the expected 'good' range for his tester readings, unlike some sellers we have been discussing lately.


DL


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> DL


 
 Oh,- I didn't realise. Thanks. At least I was complimentary.


----------



## connieflyer

Very courteous glad you made it home safe


----------



## attmci

It's ok for a cohead-fier to unload their unwanted stuff.  But the other items from the same seller.......a pair of 421A for 60% profit in a couple of months? Good luck!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> can't believe you actually found it I had one of those when I was a kid a crystal radio with a little tuning coil I was the coolest kid on the Block. It was even cooler than the string telephones that we ran across the street if you hadn't used those you just weren't there at all. Cheap to I appreciate your concern over my Miss music listening
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_can_telephone
> We had one like this stretched between houses across the street from each other. Really neat, String did not last long in the rain or snow, back then it was cotton twine not polyester or nylon.


 

 Very interesting. Very interesting. You are a "fountain" of information about tuning coils, how to be cool, string telephones, e-bay sellers...... )))
  
 I too had both a crystal radio and string telephones when I was a kid. In fact, I've never told anyone about this before, so please keep it just between you and me. One summer as a kid I was bored. So I bought a bunch of roles of kite string and strung it all over the forest, pretending I was building my own telephone company. When I was about 75% complete Mountain Bell bought me out - concerned about the competition))))


----------



## connieflyer

Now we know why phone service out west is so bad!  Great imagination! Now Doris on the other hand shows a spark of  brilliance! Good one. First time I saw her I got...


----------



## connieflyer

My current view of life in general after PCT's videos!


----------



## connieflyer

Did you realize that @hypnos1 started out as a singer, sang about London at start of career


----------



## pctazhp

Is that all there is???? ARE YOU KIDDING !!!!!   Pity the man who chooses not to see, pity the man who casts jewels before swine. Pity the fool on the hill.


----------



## pctazhp

OK @connieflyer. I know you don't like to get off topic. So I'm going to bring us back in line.
  
 We all (our fearless leader and British aristocrat excepted) are anxiously waiting for our Euforia to arrive. But to get to this point it's been:
  

  
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Did you realize that @hypnos1 started out as a singer, sang about London at start of career





 I loved Dinah


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Did you realize that @hypnos1 started out as a singer, sang about London at start of career




  
 Well, cf...you're almost right lol! - as an amateur folk singer _way_ back when -  (wasn't as smooth as ol' blue eyes here (but at least mine _are_ also blue! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) -  Ralph McTell's "Streets of London" was one of my favourite songs.....you might just recognise me _somewhere_ in this video lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  

  
 (Think I'm gonna cry, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## pctazhp

In response to the many requests for current information on Scottsdale:
  
 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691051-waste-management-phoenix-open-2017-friday-leaderboard-scores-and-highlights
  
 In Ukraine they are busy preparing for the arrival of international superstar pctazhp and his Euforia (to keep this post on topic).
  
 Can anyone tell I'm bored this morning? You guys are no fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'm going to have to go count the number of cars that drive through my local Jack In the Box in an hour ((((


----------



## connieflyer

Hopefully there won't be any more than 23 cars go through Jack in the Box because I know that would confuse you and you would lose count. I would love to stay and pick on you more today but I'm on the way to the cemetery so I have to put on my solemn face. Talk to you later


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hopefully there won't be any more than 23 cars go through Jack in the Box because I know that would confuse you and you would lose count. I would love to stay and pick on you more today but I'm on the way to the cemetery so I have to put on my solemn face. Talk to you later


 

 17 cars, 3 donkeys, 2 coyotes and 1 unique rabbit (but he was just running from the coyotes).
  
 My thoughts are with you and your life-long companion today.


----------



## pctazhp

Sorry for the confusion @connieflyer. The coyotes were ice hockey players


----------



## connieflyer

If it was the whole team at one time it only counts as one, boy I have to teach you everything!
 Looks like you and me and one guest on tonight. Everyone else must have a life!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> If it was the whole team at one time it only counts as one, boy I have to teach you everything!
> Looks like you and me and one guest on tonight. Everyone else must have a life!


 

 What's a life???


----------



## connieflyer

Figure out it is what everyone else in the world is doing and we are just texting back an forth. Anything more than this, is having a life!


----------



## connieflyer

At least we are the only real members here that would give up part of our weekend to keep this thread alive!  I have a feeling I am going to burn for this,but, what ever!


----------



## connieflyer

Doesn't it give you a warm fuzzy feeling knowing we are supporting this thread for H1?  Visit to cemetery today was a good experience. Went with Sue's sister spent about 3 and a half hours with her, talking and going out for lunch,  it did a lot of good.


----------



## DavidA

@pctazhp, @connieflyer, i think you guys have a pretty good life


----------



## connieflyer

Not too shabby David


----------



## connieflyer

Of course it helps to be just a little bit crazy


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Of course it helps to be just a little bit crazy


 

 I'll try that too and see if it helps


----------



## DavidA

Quote:


connieflyer said:


> Of course it helps to be just a little bit crazy


 
 I like to think we all have a bit of "crazy" in us, if not life would be boring.....
  

  
 Our lunch, about as simple as it gets


----------



## UntilThen

I'm in a state of Zen. Perfect tranquility. It's too good to post.


----------



## connieflyer

Aaahhhhooooommmmmmm?


----------



## UntilThen

This is total contentment.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm in a state of Zen. Perfect tranquility. It's too good to post.


 

 We're patient and can wait. In the meantime CF and I are busy getting kicked off another site. You should join us there sometime, my Friend. You could even post some of your speeches there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit:  Just don't fall asleep on us !!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Come on UT, go for it let's hear a couple your speeches I'll even go out and find some pigeons or seagulls for you to watch


----------



## UntilThen

Speeches will come later. Going out for lunch. In the meantime, I'll dedicate this seagull song to you 2.


----------



## pctazhp

I wonder if he is going to have a seagull sandwich ??


----------



## connieflyer

Come on now that's a fowl statement


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, thanks for not giving me too much 'FLAC' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for my eBay posting of a Western Electric 421A pair at a bit of a mark-up. I happened to get these at a silly price from someone who didn't know the value of these rare gems. Turns out I didn't need them and posted them for sale at a recently trending price. Actually this was the first time I've ever done that, always reselling for generally what I paid for, which is part of how I've achieved 100% positive feedback there since 2003. I prefer the Tung Sol 5998 which is similar on all accounts except for modestly softer dynamics yet improved bass (not to mention many more power types too) - though not to say these won't pair well with the Euforia amp.
  
 FYI we just had yet another ST-shaped EL12 misadventure here... yet it does appear though that both Howie and CJ / Hypnos have found a good type with their amps.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  pair of Siemens EL12 works too.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I'll try that too and see if it helps


 
  
 We are all _*beyond*_ help pct...you should know that by know lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


untilthen said:


> This is total contentment.


 
  
 Hmmmm, UT...that doesn't look like _serious_ listening to me LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...don't tell me you have indeed achieved total nirvana...could it be?..._finally!! _





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(er no, forgot...you're not quite there _yet_, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*soon!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





pctazhp said:


> I wonder if he is going to have a seagull sandwich ??


 
  
 Probably more like a seagull 'gift' from above _onto_ it lol??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

My lil cavoodle has superb hearing. He hears in his sleep too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look at the long floppy ears.
  
 I'm really looking forward to having Euforia sitting next to Elise. Can't wait to do an A/B on these 2 tube amps using the same tubes. My eyes will be wide open for sure. I need to see and hear and feel. Probably need all the 6 senses to do a proper assessment.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> My lil cavoodle has superb hearing. He hears in his sleep too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yours...or the cavoodle's lol?!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 My fervent wish, UT, is indeed that you will have the _full_ complement of EL11 and 12s to compare in _both _amps, side-by-side..._*dream reviews*_, to be sure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but don't forget the Liquid Glass and Eddie Current!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







). Great times ahead...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

Well this ought to get UT out of his meditation ....


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps you would prefer a little Gerswin.....


----------



## connieflyer

Slow morning, so bring it down


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. I love the Lonesome Valley song. It's my kind of music.
  
 But I'm wondering if the only time you would land (bring it down) the Constellation was when things up in the air were slow??


----------



## pctazhp

Here's the real Bogey Man:


----------



## MusclePharm

Hey folks, has anyone had the time to compare Euforia to Elise yet? If so where may I find it? I'm wondering if it's worth the money to"upgrade" to this one...


----------



## HOWIE13

musclepharm said:


> Hey folks, has anyone had the time to compare Euforia to Elise yet? If so where may I find it? I'm wondering if it's worth the money to"upgrade" to this one...


 
  
 As far as I'm aware the information you seek is only on the Feliks Audio website and this thread.
  
*Hypnos1's opening posts to this thread give you the best information and comparisons.* There is further discussion if you read through the rest of this thread.
  
 Nobody has been able to compare the two amps directly, side by side, because Euforia has not yet been dispatched, but in a few weeks time we will have some good comparisons I'm sure.
  
 Nevertheless, nobody knows Elise and Euforia better than hypnos1 and his assessment of Euforia is that it is definitely worth the extra cost.
  
 I'm sure others will chip in here but that's my understanding so far.


----------



## hypnos1

musclepharm said:


> Hey folks, has anyone had the time to compare Euforia to Elise yet? If so where may I find it? I'm wondering if it's worth the money to"upgrade" to this one...


 
  
 Hi MP...as H13 says, I'm afraid I am indeed the only one so far to have heard both amps....apart from the guys at F-A!!
  
 Euforia is most definitely a step or two up from Elise, and if it were one's first entry to mid-level territory (I reserve "hi-level" to anything well over $2000-$3000), I would not hesitate to recommend digging a bit deeper into the pocket and go for the more expensive amp...no question!
  
 When it comes to upgrading while still in possession of Elise, this is a much more difficult situation - Elise being so good, especially with our latest tubes lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. This can only come down to personal attitudes towards just how much _more_ folks wish from their sound system, in combination with budgetary factors of course! Unfortunately, I myself (and others as yet of course) haven't been able to compare Euforia closely to amps in the same sort of ball park, which makes the whole question even more difficult to answer alas...plus the fact that I was unable to do a proper side-by-side comparison with my old Elise itself, and so have had to go from memory.
  
 Perhaps my opening post here will at least give you _some_ idea of what hit me in an obvious way on initial listen, with further observations later in the thread.
  
 As the introductory discount has now ended, the best advice must be to now wait for others' findings...especially as most of the first units would appear to be going to folks who do indeed already have an Elise, and so will be the perfect source of info for you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. At the end of the day, I suppose it all really comes down to *just* _*how hungry are you?!!*_...(as with so many other areas of life!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







). But I wish you all the best in your final decision...just hang in there a while longer?...CHEERS!


----------



## pctazhp

I think we need a temporary motto for this thread. I suggest:"Waiting for Euforia". It's an adaptation of:
  

  
 That's the end result of my day-long meditation, contemplation and fumigation. Well, actually I spent most of the day trying to remember where I live


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you figured it out before the girls got home!


----------



## UntilThen

My euphoria has arrived. I'll post a picture tonight.


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> My euphoria has arrived. I'll post a picture tonight.


 
 hmmm... where's the punchline?


----------



## UntilThen

Behold the Euphoria.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright another picture. Don't ogle my Euphoria too much for now. Take a look at Elise on the right. She wears my newly arrived Telefunken EL12 on the left power slot with the EL12N on the right. 
  
 Let me tell you this. There's stereo bliss. All my fears that the fatter coke bottle shape Telefunken EL12 doesn't sound as good as EL12N disappeared as soon as I hear it. It's as tight as the EL12N with added layers and molecules. It's as tight as skinny jeans. This is the real thang. Now to wait for the other Telefunken EL12 to arrive but let me just say that my faith in EL12 has been restored.


----------



## UntilThen

There's something about the tone that's pretty deadly now. Can't believe that having one EL12 and EL12N as power tubes have lifted the sound energy again. The notes are alive!!! No kidding. I can't wait to have 2 Telefunken EL12s in the power slots with 2 Telefunken EL11 in the driver. There's bite, snap and dat bass .... ooooooo. It will rock your brains.


----------



## connieflyer

Looking really good UT


----------



## UntilThen

It's a shame my 1st pair of EL12 are bad tubes because I could have been enjoying this most exquisite of tone much earlier. The combination of EL11 and EL12 / EL12N has amazing clarity, transparency, agility, glorious soundstage and pin point instruments placements. I have not heard female voices so sweet and with soprano vividness before. These tubes are the dawning of a new age for Elise and Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright another picture. Don't ogle my Euphoria too much for now. Take a look at Elise on the right. She wears my newly arrived Telefunken EL12 on the left power slot with the EL12N on the right.
> 
> Let me tell you this. There's stereo bliss. All my fears that the fatter coke bottle shape Telefunken EL12 doesn't sound as good as EL12N disappeared as soon as I hear it. It's as tight as the EL12N with added layers and molecules. It's as tight as skinny jeans. This is the real thang. Now to wait for the other Telefunken EL12 to arrive but let me just say that my faith in EL12 has been restored.


 
  
 WOW!, UT...always wondered whether I should have asked Lukasz for such a fancy illuminated look for the new amp lol...what a design statement, eh?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(certainly highlights Elise and Euforia's _under_-stated looks!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> There's something about the tone that's pretty deadly now. Can't believe that having one EL12 and EL12N as power tubes have lifted the sound energy again. The notes are alive!!! No kidding. I can't wait to have 2 Telefunken EL12s in the power slots with 2 Telefunken EL11 in the driver. There's bite, snap and dat bass .... ooooooo. It will rock your brains.


 
  
 Glad your faith in the Coke Bottles has been restored, mon ami...when they work, boy do they work LOL!!...(just ask @pctazhp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And I did warn you about that bass!!...again as verified by pct.
  
  These tubes have, once again, proved that different powers can indeed have a much greater impact on the final sound than often previously stated in general....in _our_ amps, at least! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and not just the drivers...giving us therefore extensive possibilities for 'fine tuning' to individual tastes (more so than most other HP amps, it would appear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 I, too, find the 12 and 12N pair very well together...but 2x ST12s just seem to have that bit extra - which isn't really surprising, given the different design. I look forward to your findings with your own TFK pair, and mine with 2x 12Ns. I suspect @HOWIE13's findings on their difference could possibly be down to other factors in the setup, especially the DAC - I think it was the headfonics reviewer who voiced surprise at the effect of different DACs on Elise, and I would imagine the greater power output of the EL12 family _heightens_ such differences...perhaps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 There's certainly no doubting the extremely impressive results from the German pairing of drivers and powers that our amps weren't even designed for!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. Be careful not to rock those brains _too_ much, UT...just look what it's done to poor ol' pct!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Looking really good UT


 
  
 My brains, my looks or the new Euphoria?


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> WOW!, UT...always wondered whether I should have asked Lukasz for such a fancy illuminated look for the new amp lol...what a design statement, eh?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's so true and in the last few hours I've been doing the unmentionable (at least for the previous Thread) and using Mrs X's new dual adapter.
  
 Here's some pictures to whet the auditory appetite.
  
 Goes without saying the sound is gorgeous, putting Elise on another level again, -and no leaning towers either!
  
 Can recorded sound really be this good?


----------



## UntilThen

@HOWIE13  did I say dawning of a new age? Looks like a new millennium has already arrived. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Best part is all those combinations are below the threshold.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  did I say dawning of a new age? Looks like a new millennium has already arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I suppose it's the old adage-'what's better than two EL12's?---- - -4 EL12's' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mind you we shouldn't be surprised as we've been there before with EL3N's and '4 pack'.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @HOWIE13  did I say dawning of a new age? Looks like a new millennium has already arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius (video omitted to preserve bandwidth)


----------



## pctazhp

@HOWIE13 From your beautiful photos above it looks like you do your listening with Elise's back facing you. I've found it more convenient to have the front facing me, as that provides quick access to the volume knob. Just trying to be helpful.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> My brains, my looks or the new Euphoria?


 

 I think he was talking about how he feels when he looks in the mirror.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Glad you figured it out before the girls got home!


 

 For sure, but now I'm grounded


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> @HOWIE13 From your beautiful photos above it looks like you do your listening with Elise's back facing you. I've found it more convenient to have the front facing me, as that provides quick access to the volume knob. Just trying to be helpful.


 
 Oh dear-have I been using Elise back to front all this time?


----------



## mordy

Which combo sounds the best?


----------



## connieflyer

untilthen said:


> My brains, my looks or the new Euphoria?


 

 YES!


----------



## hypnos1

What can I say @HOWIE13?..._*monumental lol!*_...not to mention _*brave!!*_





.
  
 I suspect these EL12/12Ns are bringing Elise ever closer to Euforia...but must admit I still prefer being able to stick with just the four tubes in the new amp : EL11 + EL12! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Which combo sounds the best?


 
  
 The new Euphoria.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> What can I say @HOWIE13?..._*monumental lol!*_...not to mention _*brave!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm still assessing the impact of these tubes. Never has a combo been as arresting as these and I'm only on EL12 in one channel. Subconsciously I got up in the middle of the night just to sneak a listen again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I won't be exploring multi EL12s as I feel that a single pair is sending enough force 'to be with you'. These tubes are quite microphonic as I've found with EL11. I sure hope it settles down. I believe auto self biasing is at work and that it will.
  
 Having at one time really loving 6xEL3Ns, I won't deny others from exploring though but do wield the light sabre with care.


----------



## pctazhp

I was just told:
  

  
 I told them I just parrot what others say.


----------



## connieflyer

You're probably that guy that flew the coop!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> You're probably that guy that flew the coop!


 

 Please. More respect for UT's Roosters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW, UT. I really like your new Euphoria. It looks like my refrigerator.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> You're probably that guy that flew the coop!


 
 One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? That's a classic movie. Funny, sad and shocking.


----------



## connieflyer

Story of My Life


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Story of My Life


 

 We've already figured that out.
  
 Speaking of talking too much:


----------



## connieflyer

I will accede to your demands from now on I will remain silent


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Which combo sounds the best?


 
  
 That's a good but tough question, mordy.
  
 I've only used the dual adapters on the power sockets and it's impossible to give you a straight answer as it really depends what music I'm playing.
  
 Each of the several combinations I've tried improves on the already excellent single power sound, though the basic sound signature is, as ever, altered by the chosen drivers.
  
 I can't really say, as yet, if  using dual EL12ST or EL12N or even combos of the two are significantly different. I've also tried a 6 pack of EL11's which sounded great as well, but as for comparisons, that will take me a lot longer to properly assess.
  
_If I can be as concise as possible I would say that dual power mode compared to single power tube doesn't so much change certain individual elements of the sound but instead puts every dimension of the final sound, from sound-stage to frequency reproduction, imaging, clarity, focus, presence, etc. up a notch or two._
  
 One combo I listened to this afternoon was dual EL12ST with K-R 6SN7 VT231 and Chopin and his piano were in the room with me, via my T1g2's of course, (sorry that sounds so trite but that's the emotional response I experienced).
  
 6 pack EL11 has a warmth in the mids that really suits female vocals, often so hard to reproduce well.
  
 Dual RFT EL12N with C3g drivers gives tremendous fluidity, punch and vitality to baroque instruments,
  
 and so on...............
  
 I certainly wouldn't advise experimenting in this way with a  totally new amp like Euforia, but since we know Elise can handle the 4/6 pack EL3N's very well I thought it safe enough to try.
  
 As far as microphony is concerned, the tubes in the dual adapters are very quiet. I have a good sounding but fairly microphonic Telefunken EL11 which was silent in the dual mode.
 Maybe sharing the socket, or this particular dual adapter, makes microphony less likely, just speculating though and it's only the one tube so can't be sure about this yet.
  
 Overall, I'm more than very pleased and if anyone is interested, the adapter is here:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192059623692?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> BTW, UT. I really like your new Euphoria. It looks like my refrigerator.


 
  
 I'm open to price negotiations for it. It plays, dance, sings and emits lights. It's call a Jukebox and it has real wooden sides. 
  
 Remember this closing Jukebox scene in Top Gun?


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> What can I say @HOWIE13?..._*monumental lol!*_...not to mention _*brave!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well I agree with you there, H1.
  
 These new tubes as singles in a new amp are quite enough to start with.
  
 However, I can't even begin to imagine how good Euforia might be if the sound is lifted to the degree it has been in Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm open to price negotiations for it. It plays, dance, sings and emits lights. It's call a Jukebox and it has real wooden sides.
> 
> Remember this closing Jukebox scene in Top Gun?


 
 You'll have to talk to CF. He handles all my negotiations. He also has wooden sides.
  
 Top Gun is one of my favorite movies. It's the closest either you or I will ever get to knowing what CF's life was like.
  
 CF:  WAKE UP!  We're talking about you and Connor wants to go out for a walk.
  
 As for me, I'm being directed back into my cage.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, I am awake. You are quite correct, I shared many of the same things as the Top Gun movie. I played the jukebox, and sat at the bar, and hassled the officers on the flight crew! Used to love racing my new Schwinn bike next to the runway as the helicopters took off! The women were incredible, I did not get to talk to any as they all went to the Officers club. Thanks PCT


----------



## pctazhp

I've noticed something recently. Since I started using my EL11/12 holy barbecue grill grail, I have not been turning up the volume as much as I normally would, because it is so clean and clear. But when I do pump up the volume I become aware of how dynamic this combo is and how amazing the bass is as @hypnos1 has described.
  
 The combo just keeps getting better and better. In order to improve with Euforia, FA must have discovered some magic powder created from grinding seagull feathers. Do seagulls have feathers????


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'm still assessing the impact of these tubes. Never has a combo been as arresting as these and I'm only on EL12 in one channel. Subconsciously I got up in the middle of the night just to sneak a listen again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT. Funny you should mention "still assessing the impact of these tubes"...I was about to make the exact same statement myself as they perform in Euforia lol! They are still "adjusting" themselves to the amp (or more strictly, the amp to _them_ lol!)... but just as importantly, my _hearing_ to them...both the tubes _and_ the amp! What follows may hopefully also answer H13's observations as below, regarding further possible "improvements" to the new amp via multiple tubes :
  
 Firstly, the changes incorporated into Euforia have already resulted in greater clarity, separation/positioning, resolution, extended FR and transient handling, control/speed (PRaT, if you like), balance and cohesion...along with much more powerful dynamics. Given the additional power of the EL12/Ns, the combination is indeed already giving "enough force" to satisfy most folks...and more lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...there is only so much any particular amp can aspire to at each price level! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I would be most surprised if what I'm now hearing from my amp could be improved upon in any of the areas previously mentioned... (_altered_, perhaps)...but anything is _possible_, of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Secondly, tubes can only take an amp so far...it is the amp's circuit topology and quality of components that then decide just how far performance can be pushed. And despite the numerous areas of improvement Henryk Feliks has managed to achieve, one of the main aspects that continues to amaze me is this amp's mastery in controlling all the _*bass*_ frequencies, and which IMHO could well be one of the most important at illuminating an amp's overall prowess. It is the bass lines that really carry the timing, of course, and not just simply provide the 'foundation' for everything above! Any shortcomings here can therefore disrupt the entire performance, to varying degrees... regardless of how good it is in other respects lol!
 I was already mightily impressed with Euforia's capability in this area, over and above that of Elise, but this has been further highlighted by the phenomenal bass quality of the EL12s. To be able to keep such powerful, extended and multi-toned low notes so effortlessly under control, without smearing, breakup or loss of timing/speed, is what IMHO takes an amp to levels beyond what "mere"(!!) tubes are capable of...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and hence my confidence in no desire/need to go multi, LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but to each his own...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 ..


howie13 said:


> Well I agree with you there, H1.
> 
> These new tubes as singles in a new amp are quite enough to start with.
> 
> *However, I can't even begin to imagine how good Euforia might be if the sound is lifted to the degree it has been in Elise.*


 
  
 Hi H13...I think my diatribe above is more than enough, but I respect your own approach to these things lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I've noticed something recently. Since I started using my EL11/12 holy barbecue grill grail, I have not been turning up the volume as much as I normally would, because it is so clean and clear. But when I do pump up the volume I become aware of how dynamic this combo is and how amazing the bass is as @hypnos1 has described.
> 
> The combo just keeps getting better and better. In order to improve with Euforia, *FA must have discovered some magic powder created from grinding seagull feathers*. Do seagulls have feathers????


 
  
 Phew, pct...thought you were going to say grinding something other than _*feathers*_ for a moment there!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
 And yes...boy is there power to spare - in Euforia, some of my tracks are only needing vol setting *3* of 20 lol!! So try to imagine just what enters your brain with Euforia's even greater dynamics..._*you too have been warned!!*_








...(so _be prepared!!_





).


----------



## pctazhp

The following story will only have meaning for those who understand that in the US we have a law that makes it illegal to transport girls across state lines for immoral purposes. Even for them this story will have no meaning, and they may risk dropping their headphones into their laps from shaking their heads.
  
 It seems there was a man who heard that there existed in the deep reaches of Africa a rare variety of seagulls who, when living in the same environment as porpoises, would cause the porpoises to live forever.
  
 He traveled to Africa and after trekking many days found the seagulls. He bundled them up (humanely of course) and started to return to catch his Constellation back home. However, he encountered a very deep trench lined with sleeping lions. He knew that many miles/kilometers down the trench was a break where he could cross safely. But he was tired and decided to just jump over the trench. As soon as he landed on the other side he was arrested for attempting to transport seagulls across staid lions for immortal porpoises.


----------



## connieflyer

PCT you should really come over here and visit with me. We have this wonderful, beautiful, Hospital ,everywhere you look it's white beautifully clean, sanitary, quiet, no noise everybody wears soft sole shoes they talk in low hushed tones you will love these people they allow you to wear soft clothing ,they put sunglasses on you so there is eye no strain, they put these little soft rubber sponges in your ears so nothing will disturb you, because from what I saw in your last post, you're disturbed!  

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Pq0xYr3L4[/VIDEO]


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H13...I think my diatribe above is more than enough, but I respect your own approach to these things lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As always you are making good common sense. If an amp like Euforia is already performing brilliantly, to the extent that it is already achieving the best from its tubes, then why complicate matters by altering the tube circuit?
  
 In fact, there must come a point where to enhance the sonic components of an amp could be counter-productive to enjoying a realistic acoustic experience.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> PCT you should really come over here and visit with me. We have this wonderful, beautiful, Hospital ,everywhere you look it's white beautifully clean, sanitary, quiet, no noise everybody wears soft sole shoes they talk in low hushed tones you will love these people they allow you to wear soft clothing ,they put sunglasses on you so there is eye no strain, they put these little soft rubber sponges in your ears so nothing will disturb you, because from what I saw in your last post, *you're disturbed*!


 
 Please inform the hospital my check-in will be delayed. I just broke both legs laughing so hard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thank you for your charitable description of my present state of mind


----------



## connieflyer

I am you know, a statesman first and foremost!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> PCT you should really come over here and visit with me. We have this wonderful, beautiful, Hospital ,everywhere you look it's white beautifully clean, sanitary, quiet, no noise everybody wears soft sole shoes they talk in low hushed tones you will love these people they allow you to wear soft clothing ,they put sunglasses on you so there is eye no strain, they put these little soft rubber sponges in your ears so nothing will disturb you, because from what I saw in your last post, you're disturbed!


 
  
 Sounds like the sort of place I might be needing soon while waiting for you guys to get your own 'Euphorias' lol..._*you're driving me nuts!!*_











...(but keep us laughing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


howie13 said:


> As always you are making good common sense. If an amp like Euforia is already performing brilliantly, to the extent that it is already achieving the best from its tubes, then why complicate matters by altering the tube circuit?
> 
> In fact, there must come a point where to enhance the sonic components of an amp could be counter-productive to enjoying a realistic acoustic experience.


 
  
 Thanks H13...that was in fact the reasoning behind my rather brazen request to Lukasz for a few "alterations" LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...little did I know (or F-A themselves at the time!) it would escalate somewhat...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And so it is I hope those achievements of Henryk will also be noticed by all you good guys who have taken the plunge already...if not, you'll find me in that wonderful sanctuary of @connieflyer's...(and perhaps with @pctazhp to keep me company...OH NO!...that f-h will be in the bosom of a wonderful family in the Ukraine - anyone else willing to keep me company lol?!!...I need a hug...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...),


----------



## connieflyer

We are among friends, so it is okay, just settle down and be calm!


----------



## pctazhp

All of this brings back one of my favorite memories from high school, which is arguably on-topic. The name of our Spanish language text book was "*El* Camino Royal". The only thing I remember from my 2 years of Spanish was that means The Kings Road or The Royal Road. Anyway, that's not the point of my story. There was a way to take a pen to the cover and fill in the letters to make it read "Real Foaming Cereal" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I had better get out of here while the getting is good. I'll check back after my lithium pills start to kick in, or they unbuckle the straight jacket


----------



## DecentLevi

untilthen said:


> It's a shame my 1st pair of EL12 are bad tubes because I could have been enjoying this most exquisite of tone much earlier. The combination of EL11 and EL12 / EL12N has amazing clarity, transparency, agility, glorious soundstage and pin point instruments placements. I have not heard female voices so sweet and with soprano vividness before. These tubes are the dawning of a new age for Elise and Euforia.


 
 Which headphones were you using? The Telefunken EL11 + EL12N  were actually too bright for my HD-600's so I've been having to do 'darker' setups for them such as quad EL3N + 6SN7 and and EL3N + EL12. I'm thinking my fat EL12's will fatten up the bass a bit


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> That's so true and in the last few hours I've been doing the unmentionable (at least for the previous Thread) and using Mrs X's new dual adapter.
> 
> Here's some pictures to whet the auditory appetite.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your photos and skill were done so great I just couldn't help from reposting.
  
 Quote:


howie13 said:


> That's a good but tough question, mordy.
> 
> I've only used the dual adapters on the power sockets and it's impossible to give you a straight answer as it really depends what music I'm playing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very intriguing indeed! It does stand to reason that doubling the same power tubes (as long as it's within parameters) would further increase the same benefits one just one per socket. My original take was that this may be 'too much of a good thing'. Do you get any sense of anything being overdone, such as soundstage or even watered down such as dynamics? You can also use those EL11 adapters as dual EL11 drivers, but from my experience any dual setups with the Elise sound better as powers.
  
 Also how would you compare your favorite EL12's in single mode versus dual mode?
  
 Also does this dual mode seem to reduce the hum any?
  
 On the fence if I would be trying this one - my Elise is already singing enough but maybe I'll try it on the Euforia if it's tested first.


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Very intriguing indeed! It does stand to reason that doubling the same power tubes (as long as it's within parameters) would further increase the same benefits one just one per socket. My original take was that this may be 'too much of a good thing'. Do you get any sense of anything being overdone, such as soundstage or even watered down such as dynamics? You can also use those EL11 adapters as dual EL11 drivers, but from my experience any dual setups with the Elise sound better as powers.
> 
> Also how would you compare your favorite EL12's in single mode versus dual mode?
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW-I never thought my photography would be praised! Thanks. That's really made my day. I found something called_ 'night mode' _on my camera dial and that helps.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So, to answer your queries, well it does sound like there's an overall general improvement in sound by doubling up the powers. If you think of the analogy of the EL3N's, comparing one EL3N per channel to two, you get a flavour of what I mean. It's not just a power or volume effect though-all obvious components of the sound are enhanced, including more subtle and harder to define aspects like 'presence and 'engagement'.
  
 Nothing is overdone to the extent of artificiality or anything like that-quite the contrary-Elise really does scale up well here and I agree dual set-ups are better restricted to the power tubes to my ears too.
  
 The amp is very quiet in dual mode. I was listening at 0430 this morning to a very quiet piece of choral music and the background was black. I actually think there is less microphony too with the dual adapter-I thought that with EL3N's too. Maybe there is a scientific basis for this to do with the sharing of the voltage or something-too complicated for me, I'm afraid.
  
 Finally, I haven't found my HD600 too bright with single  EL12N powers and EL11 drivers, but the other way round doesn't sound quite so good, a bit sharp in the treble. I don't think EL12N's show their best attributes as drivers and you are restricted to what powers you could use with them so not to exceed 6.8mA total current.
  
 The coke shaped EL12ST has a similar sound to the EL12N but is to my ears a little warmer and smoother perhaps, with a bit more bass, and lower-mid, giving a more holographic image whilst the EL12N straight bottle is a little more forward and dynamic with slightly better imaging and clarity-but it's only by a whisker and more obvious in dual than single mode. In fact in single mode they sound pretty similar to me. I'm still very much on the 'learning curve' but they are both excellent tubes.
  
 I'm using one of each in the power slots at present, as in my last photo.
  
 That's quite enough from me for this time in the morning-now I need a coffee then it's shopping time with the wife.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Which headphones were you using? The Telefunken EL11 + EL12N  were actually too bright for my HD-600's so I've been having to do 'darker' setups for them such as quad EL3N + 6SN7 and and EL3N + EL12. I'm thinking my fat EL12's will fatten up the bass a bit


 
  
 Strictly T1 these days because it is just so good with Elise and EL11 / EL12N and lately a combination of EL12 and EL12N as powers.
  
 Surprised that you find it too bright for your HD600 because I wouldn't categorise EL11 and EL12N as overly bright. It is clear, transparent, dazzling in the highs, commanding in the mids and impactful in the bass. There's a right touch of liquid warm and lushness. Just the right amount.
  
 There's really not that much difference between Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12N. TFK EL12 have slightly more density to the tone. I need one more incoming TFK EL12 to do a proper assessment.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Strictly T1 these days because it is just so good with Elise and EL11 / EL12N and lately a combination of EL12 and EL12N as powers.
> 
> Surprised that you find it too bright for your HD600 because I wouldn't categorise EL11 and EL12N as overly bright. It is clear, transparent, dazzling in the highs, commanding in the mids and impactful in the bass. There's a right touch of liquid warm and lushness. Just the right amount.
> 
> There's really not that much difference between Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12N. TFK EL12 have slightly more density to the tone. I need one more incoming TFK EL12 to do a proper assessment.


 
 Even my K701 isn't too bright.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Finally, I haven't found my HD600 too bright with single  EL12N powers and EL11 drivers, but the other way round doesn't sound quite so good, a bit sharp in the treble. I don't think EL12N's show their best attributes as drivers and you are restricted to what powers you could use with them so not to exceed 6.8mA total current.
> 
> The coke shaped EL12ST has a similar sound to the EL12N but is to my ears a little warmer and smoother perhaps, with a bit more bass, and lower-mid, giving a more holographic image whilst the EL3N straight bottle is a little more forward and dynamic with slightly better imaging and clarity-but it's only by a whisker and much more obvious in dual than single mode. In fact in single mode they sound pretty similar to me. I'm still very much on the 'learning curve' but they are both excellent tubes.


 
  
 I haven't read your post when I replied to DL. It's uncanny how much in common our thoughts are.
  
 Agree that both Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12N are excellent sounding tubes. I haven't heard other brands EL12 but this Telefunken EL12 has the right chemistry partnering RFT EL12N.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I haven't read your post when I replied to DL. It's uncanny how much in common our thoughts are.
> 
> Agree that both Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12N are excellent sounding tubes. I haven't heard other brands EL12 but this Telefunken EL12 has the right chemistry partnering RFT EL12N.


 
 It's obviously our common Scottish ancestry.


----------



## UntilThen

I should play this song now.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> I should play this song now.




  
 Stirs the blood!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I haven't read your post when I replied to DL. It's uncanny how much in common our thoughts are.
> 
> Agree that both Telefunken EL12 and RFT EL12N are excellent sounding tubes. I haven't heard other brands EL12 but this Telefunken EL12 has the right chemistry partnering RFT EL12N.


 
  
 They do indeed go together very well, UT...so all is definitely not lost if (for any reason!) one ends up with just one ST-shape 12 lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I am very happy for you guys, listening and enjoying the new el11-12 combos. Unfortunate for me, I could no longer stand it so last week a bought an amp kit. Should be done with it this afternoon.  Will post some pictures and initial thoughts.  If it is good enough will have two great amps.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well, I am very happy for you guys, listening and enjoying the new el11-12 combos. Unfortunate for me, I could no longer stand it so last week a bought an amp kit. Should be done with it this afternoon.  Will post some pictures and initial thoughts.  If it is good enough will have two great amps.


 
  
 Did you get a Jukebox too?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> They do indeed go together very well, UT...so all is definitely not lost if (for any reason!) one ends up with just one ST-shape 12 lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's a scary thought but I might end up with a EL12 and EL12N. They are blending seamlessly now but I'm a symmetric guy and wouldn't know how to live with this.


----------



## connieflyer

This is build is taking me longer than I thought. Did not seem to be that many parts when I got it. I found out you have to solder the joints, duck tape and super glue don't work that well.  The kit is called a Donaldo from a little Italian kit maker. Had good reviews cheap enough and available locally through best buy.  Will post pics later


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Did you get a Jukebox too?


 

 He ordered a Joke-box. Everyone run for cover !!!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> This is build is taking me longer than I thought. Did not seem to be that many parts when I got it. I found out you have to solder the joints, duck tape and super glue don't work that well.  The kit is called a Donaldo from a little Italian kit maker. Had good reviews cheap enough and available locally through best buy.  Will post pics later


 
  
 Wouldn't be Meccano or Lego by any chance lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> It's a scary thought but I might end up with a EL12 and EL12N. They are blending seamlessly now but I'm a symmetric guy and wouldn't know how to live with this.


 
  
 Must admit, UT, good though the pair sound together, I'm with you re. the appearance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Speaking of which, even if only one of my EL12 'Spezial' works properly, at least it wouldn't look _too_ out of place lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I do in fact have one _*that works!!!*_ As I have just let @angpsi know over at the Elise thread, my RFT is working beautifully...and not the slightest nasty murmur! The opposite, truth be told...even though NOS, with absolute rubbish temporary wire (just in case!) and no shielding whatsoever for the anode wire, and just a few seconds on it, I'm already impressed...can't wait to hear it with decent silver wire (and a bit of shielding at least), and decent burn-in!!  This bodes very well indeed LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(just hope the Telefunken works OK - don't really like the look of the white inside the top of the tube, but it supposedly tested 100%?!!... Mind you, these TFK insides do often have a very unusual appearance!). Will keep y'all informed...
  
 ps. I really do suspect the adapter hasn't been wired properly...and if so, it's most likely grid#2 hasn't been properly connected to the anode, thereby doubling the gain/power output to levels far too high for Elise...perhaps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## connieflyer

Well, the results of the amp build are coming in. Not up to Elise standards, but one thing for sure, it is much quieter. Black as coal, no buzzing, no hum, no extraneous sounds. I started on this, this morning so perhaps I should have taken more time. Oh well.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. Is your new amp the front or back one? The front one looks like a Flying Saucer. The back one looks like it was built by a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious maestro. Both are quite impressive


----------



## connieflyer

Actually it is!


----------



## UntilThen

Don what amp is it?


----------



## connieflyer

I needed to have something to look at and so I made one out of a couple of cardboard boxes and spray paint, put some tubes in it, and turn the speakers and pretend! Gotcha! Never let old people have to much time on their hands, they do weird things!


----------



## DecentLevi

No wonder your cardboard amp is quieter
  
 "Black as coal, no buzzing, no hum, no extraneous sounds."


----------



## UntilThen

Postman tried to deliver my other Telefunken EL12 but I wasn't home. What the fish.


----------



## hypnos1

*IMPORTANT UPDATE FROM F-A Re. EL11 and EL12*
  
Sad news from Lukasz, I'm afraid re. use of the EL11 and EL12....full post over at the Elise thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/6165#post_13247474
  
Basically, after testing the EL11 more fully, because the working parameters are way out in Elise (and hence Euforia) they do not know whether damage to the amp would/could be caused in the long term by use of these tubes.
Tragically, Feliks-Audio cannot therefore officially recommend/sanction their use, and we must continue* purely at* *our own discretion/risk*.
  
I personally am happy to continue, given the time that has already passed re. the EL11...the EL12 is of course a different animal as such, but I will continue with this tube also for a while...but will keep an _especially_ close eye (ear!) on it! 




  
 And so the decision whether to continue must obviously rest upon folks' own feelings about this, given the latest news...this is not what I was hoping for alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but is what all 'experimental' tube rollers know deep down in their hearts lol..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Best wishes to all...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I needed to have something to look at and so I made one out of a couple of cardboard boxes and spray paint, put some tubes in it, and turn the speakers and pretend! Gotcha! Never let old people have to much time on their hands, they do weird things!


 
  
 Methinks you, my friend, and @pctazhp have been spending FAR too much time together lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(but we love you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  
 ps  Hope there's enough white coats to go round!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 pps  Sorry if my sad post above brings you both back down to earth LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but we soldier on...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

It's status quo for me. It's the way things are presently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 c3g and EL3N were never officially endorsed but that didn't stop me from using it for more than a year. Neither would I stop using EL11 and EL12. It will undergo long term usage in my Elise. That doesn't mean you should follow me unless you want to go the road less travelled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's just an unfortunate episode with the EL12spez but I was never keen on trying the tube anyway. Just didn't like the sticking out octopus wire.


----------



## connieflyer

Yes CJ it seems that PCT and I are like brothers from a different mother. If that makes sense then you'll understand sad news about 11 and 12 very disappointing from what I've heard they were super tubes all the best CF


----------



## pctazhp

Well a lot to digest - and I don't just mean my big dinner from last night. I mean trying to figure out why my brother from a different mother would build a cardboard amp and why the universe plays tricks on us with rogue tubes such as the ELs.
  
 I'll be contemplating those questions and my navel today while I continue to enjoy EL11/12. The forbidden has always had a special appeal for me!!!!  And I don't particularly like roads that have been traveled a lot.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> It's status quo for me. It's the way things are presently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

First..@connieflyer...fear not, the EL11s and 12s still are tremendous tubes - I've a feeling most of us are not going to give them up lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(and as @HOWIE13 said over on the Elise thread, we have been using different triode-strapped pentodes for a very long while now...with great results and no real mishaps...).
  
 Second...news from Lukasz which is a bit *MORE CHEERFUL*! - for you lucky new Euforia owners-to-be : you're getting a *further* additional goody over and above the improved noise reduction circuits, and reduction/removal of the rather loud spike on switch off...ie. *AN UPGRADED TRANSFORMER!!! *...And from the sound of it, it's one from the 'famous' Polish audiophile trafo manufacturer that was mentioned in a query by a member a long while ago...so you guys are *LUCKY INDEED! *





...(I want one lol!!! ...it's not fair!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 So this is much better news from F-A...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

AND THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING!!!  I'm sure the new transformer will transform Euforia into something even more wonderful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for fairness, John F. Kennedy said "Life is unfair". @connieflyer said "I'm living proof of that".


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. You and I should both be grateful no one has assassinated either one of us (SICK HUMOR)


----------



## connieflyer

I believe the reason for that was no one thought we were worth the price of a bullet I think I agree with that


----------



## UntilThen

I like the news of an upgraded Transformer. I'm quite sure mine will be Optimus Prime.

Pct you're getting Bumblebee.


----------



## HOWIE13

If there's going to be any problems with EL12 tubes I'll probably be the first to know about it as I'm running them in dual mode, one EL12N and one EL12ST in each power socket.
  
 I'm listening just now with C3g as drivers and these power tubes really enhance the C3g's _joie de vivre_, whilst keeping everything in the mix under control and integrated-something that can sometimes be  a bit difficult for lesser quality amps with the ebullient C3g's.


----------



## UntilThen

EL13 (which is what I coin as EL11 and EL12 / EL12N combination) is real music to my ears right now. It is incredible. How do you say incredible with an incredible tone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I N C R E D I B L E.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> *EL13 *(which is what I coin as EL11 and EL12 / EL12N combination) is real music to my ears right now. It is incredible. How do you say incredible with an incredible tone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely brilliant and spot on. One might even say


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> EL13 (which is what I coin as EL11 and EL12 / EL12N combination) is real music to my ears right now. It is incredible. How do you say incredible with an incredible tone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perhaps..._*INCROYABLE?!!*_...or _*INCREDIBILE?!!...*_


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I like the news of an upgraded Transformer. I'm quite sure mine will be Optimus Prime.
> 
> Pct you're getting Bumblebee.


 
  
 And me, UT?... :
  

  





...


----------



## connieflyer

If I get the upgrade, please feel free to visit me and have a listen!


----------



## UntilThen

I'll see you all tonight when I would have gotten my other Telefunken EL12. There will be more fireworks I am sure.


----------



## pctazhp

H1:  Davy Crockett's last dying words at the Alamo were "Pioneers always get screwed". CF's recent words of sympathy to you were "Well, you can always come visit me". Your dying words will be "I just discovered the absolute, unequivocal, certifiable holy grail combo for Euforia. It is __________"  My dying words will be "Damn, I never did learn Who Put the Bomp In the Bomp, Bomp, Bomp" UT will outlive all of us and live to make in excess of 100,000 posts on HeadFi.


----------



## connieflyer

But without us it will be futile!


----------



## pctazhp

I love this song which I remember from college. Quite haunting, I think


----------



## connieflyer

The only thing haunting about that is the fact that you remember anything from your college days


----------



## pctazhp

And if you have never seen this movie I seriously and highly, highly recommend it:


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The only thing haunting about that is the fact that you remember anything from your college days


 

 Welcome to:


----------



## connieflyer

The Traveling Wilburys The Traveling Wilburys were one of the greatest assemblage of talent ever. George Harrison, Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, Bob Dylan and Jim Keltner. This was not a super-group, it was a MEGA-group. RIP George and Roy, you will always be in our hearts.


----------



## MIKELAP

connieflyer said:


> The Traveling Wilburys The Traveling Wilburys were one of the greatest assemblage of talent ever. George Harrison, Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, Bob Dylan and Jim Keltner. This was not a super-group, it was a MEGA-group. RIP George and Roy, you will always be in our hearts.




 Back in the day most every Friday's friends of mine would get together in a basement and play some music they use to call themselves ¨The Traveling Beer Belly's¨ so funny so much fun .lol.


----------



## connieflyer

@pctazhp does this sum up your weekends?


----------



## connieflyer

And then you go here


----------



## pctazhp

YES YES YES CF. In two simple posts you have managed to capture two-sevenths (2/7) of my life (*)
  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 * Each week has 7 days. Each weekend has 2 days. Ergo 2/7ths. But come to think of it not all weekend have 2 days. I think maybe there are 10 3-day weekends in each year. We're going to be rounding up or down so that should be close enough.
  
 10 3-day weekends is 30 days. Assuming each year has 52 weekends, 52-10 = 42 2-day weekends, or 84 days. 30 + 84 = 114 days, which means you have captured 114 days of my life out of 365 days (I think that's how many days in each year).
  
 114/365 = 0.312328767123288. So lets just say 31.232876712329 %.
  
 When I have more time I'll adjust for leap years and the gradual slowing of the earth's spin.
  
 BTW, I think it probably took me longer to conceive of and write this post than it did for you to build your amp.
 -----------------------------------------------------------
 Music on your posts listened to on Elise provided through courtesy of pctazhp.
  
 Calculations rendered on calculator provided through courtesy of Bumblebee Enterprises.


----------



## connieflyer

Huh?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Huh?


 

 UT will be here later and he can explain it to you


----------



## connieflyer

I have a feeling his response is going to be similar to mine. Those girls better hurry up and get back here you're getting real close to the edge and I would know I've been to the edge end to the other side and back!


----------



## connieflyer

Hang in there and stick with us will get you through until they come back. After that you're on your own!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hang in there and stick with us will get you through until they come back. After that you're on your own!


 

 I thank you. They thank you ))))


----------



## pctazhp

And with that, a good night to all


----------



## UntilThen

Time to wake up @hypnos1. My Telefunken EL12 works and sounds great. More detail impressions will follow later.


----------



## HOWIE13

I'm never quite sure which thread to post on these days so I'll maybe just alternate.
  
 Anyway, I had hardly any sleep last night listening to various combinations of 2 pack and 4 pack, EL12 and EL12ST  powers with c3g drivers.
  
 Words fail me--I never realised how good c3g drivers could sound before the EL12 powers came along to partner them. The bass is awesome, bone- crunching piano chords, utterly amazed. Fantastic synergy with Elise.
  
 I've also never heard my K701 sound so good either-I can hear why opinions are so divided about this can. T1 was out of this world-really was, and so was I.
  
 So totally hyped up that I couldn't sleep even when I eventually got to my bed. Now exhausted, but thirsting for more music.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I saw the beautiful picture of your TV you posted. H1 will be quite excited to see it when he wakes up. But what's that black and grey thing in front of it? It's a little hard to see.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh my, UT built his own amp too!


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 I can empathize with you - sometimes the Elise sings so beautifully that you can't tear yourself away and you end up staying up way too late.
  
 Since I don't have adapters for more than four EL13 tubes I tried a six pack with the EL3N as drivers. Unfortunately it did not sound good at all. I guess that I have to order more EL13 adapters....
  
 Re the confusion about the symbols on the bottom of the bakelite tube bases. I think that that you have to look at the stylized M P the same way as the symbol for recyclable plastic - it is just an identifier (for bakelite/plastic from different manufacturers). And if it says the name of the tube manufacturer itself you are lucky and can identify who produced it.
  
 Another observation: Loose bases seem to be much more prevalent with these old European tubes. Of the used ones I got, at least 25% had loose bases. My guess is that the European factories used a different glue that does not hold up as well over time as the US manufacturers where my experience has been that very few tubes have loose bases. And I have yet to find a Russian tube with this problem....
  
 ATM I have tried the tall stately looking straight glass Telefunken EL11 and the Loewe-Opta short EL11 tubes. I only have singles at this time and it is hard to evaluate tubes that are not pairs. The only thing I can say about the TFK is that it runs much hotter than the ST EL11 and that the TFK and L-O sound different than the ST types.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> I'm never quite sure which thread to post on these days so I'll maybe just alternate.
> 
> Anyway, I had hardly any sleep last night listening to various combinations of 2 pack and 4 pack, EL12 and EL12ST  powers with c3g drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 All these are signs that a rehab is necessary. The other cure is to get Euphoria. Then you will be weaned of your Elise.
  
 I once heard the K702 with silver cable at a meet and was quite impressed with it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. I saw the beautiful picture of your TV you posted. H1 will be quite excited to see it when he wakes up. But what's that black and grey thing in front of it? It's a little hard to see.


 
  
 Those are my cardboard EL13 which sounds absolutely wonderful. The movie 'Million Dollar Baby' was showing on the TV and I was just multi tasking, listening to music and watching the movie.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> I can empathize with you - sometimes the Elise sings so beautifully that you can't tear yourself away and you end up staying up way too late.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We are indeed slowly getting more experience with these lovely tubes, mordy. I've taped and glued a couple of loose bases to good effect, although the loose bases were not causing any distortion, as they usually do with some other tube types, especially 6SN7's.
  
 I've got four Telefunken- EL11's which make a nice 4 pack as powers for lots of different drivers and I really like c3g and K-R 6SN7, VT231's with them, amongst others.
  
 I also tried EL3N's as drivers with them but didn't think it was quite as good a combination, but can't remember why. I keep meaning to make notes as I go along but usually forget.
  
 The other 4 pack I've tried is with EL12's, using EL11's as drivers with them. This is another fabulous combination.
  
 I'm kind of hooked on the dual adapter powers just now-somehow they just enhance everything, though the basic sound signature is similar-there's just more of it.
  
 I meant to say last time I enjoy your historical perspectives about tubes etc- always most interesting.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> All these are signs that a rehab is necessary. The other cure is to get Euphoria. Then you will be weaned of your Elise.
> 
> I once heard the K702 with silver cable at a meet and was quite impressed with it.


 
 Yeah-well I would love to go into re-hab right now as I have the most boring evening ahead of me, organised by _Her _of course.
  
 The AKG's K701/2 are very clear sounding-nothing between you and the performers, but sometimes it's too much of a good thing, especially with a poor recording.
  
 As to Euforia, I even hesitated coming onto this Thread as I knew I would be tempted. However, mercifully these new EL 11/12 tubes have ignited in me a passion for Elise, even stronger than before.


----------



## HOWIE13

Wasn't sure whether to post on this thread or the other one but since the other is bursting with activity just now and no one has posted here for 20 hours I thought I would post this photo of a tube which I think has mesh plates.
  
 It's difficult to see inside, even using my brightest torch, and cricking my neck to the point of pain.
  
 Between spasms though I can glimpse a  roundish, cage like mesh structure.  1M is printed in white on the underside of the base.
  
 Haven't listened to it yet as I have to go out. Will give it a go later tonight.


----------



## UntilThen

Ooooo Howie. Looks like H1's black Valvo and mesh plate too.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Ooooo Howie. Looks like H1's black Valvo and mesh plate too.


 
 Couldn't wait until this evening so tried it as a power tube combined with my Siemens, Then swapped them around, then replaced for a T-F.
  
 It's really not possible for me to give a definite verdict without a second one but it's certainly a liquid smooth, sheer gorgeous performer. Dead quiet too and great looker.
  
 The base was a bit loose, though not affecting the sound if moved, and I've temporarily put some tape round before I do the permanent fix.
  
 Will need to find another now-maybe three if I'm to use in dual mode. This never ends. It would have been cheaper to buy Euforia after all.


----------



## UntilThen

Correct. That's why I stop quad power. Just too costly.  With EL3N, the tubes are cheap but these EL12 are expensive.


----------



## pctazhp

Elise and Euforia are both reasonably priced and as delivered are top performers (well I'm speculating regarding the Euforia but have information from a highly reliable and respected source to support my speculation).
  
 It's the FA threads on HeadFi that are expensive.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Correct. That's why I stop quad power. Just too costly.  With EL3N, the tubes are cheap but these EL12 are expensive.


 

 I assume $500 AUS was just your pocket change for the day.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Correct. That's why I stop quad power. Just too costly.  With EL3N, the tubes are cheap but these EL12 are expensive.


 
 Especially with mesh plates.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Couldn't wait until this evening so tried it as a power tube combined with my Siemens, Then swapped them around, then replaced for a T-F.
> 
> *It's really not possible for me to give a definite verdict without a second one but it's certainly a liquid smooth, sheer gorgeous performer*. Dead quiet too and great looker.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It sounds from your initial feelings that it might just well have the mesh plates, similar to my old (extremely rare!) Valvo EL11s...(why not scrape off that gold paint with a very sharp blade and get a better look lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). In these tubes (my EL11s, at least), the mesh plates really do bring more than just a sprinkling of Fairy Dust to the proceedings..._amazing!!!_ But I suspect finding another will be like winning the Lottery alas...with the 11s, from the outside you would swear to have struck gold, only to discover _fool's_ gold lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so GOOD HUNTING!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> It sounds from your initial feelings that it might just well have the mesh plates, similar to my old (extremely rare!) Valvo EL11s...(why not scrape off that gold paint with a very sharp blade and get a better look lol?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi H1.
  
 I'm now certain they are mesh plates. It's actually easier to see the fine mesh-work when the tube is in use when a combination of the orange internal glow plus external torch shows the interior much better.
  
 It does sound like a real peach of a tube, and paired with the Siemens there's a very easy fluidity to the sound, plenty rhythm, dynamics and detail in a warm acoustic-but not overbearingly so-just very natural and easy sounding-like the amp was enjoying the music too. I'm sounding ridiculous now-but that's the effect Elise has-taking me somewhere else.


----------



## pctazhp

I have heard some grumblings about the expected white LED on forthcoming Euforia. Me thinks some people [won't name any names, at least in this post - you know who you are )))))] have too much time on their hands. Or too many hands on their time.
  
 I suggest:


----------



## pctazhp

With the skill gained from painting Euforia LED, you can move on to paint your wagon.
  

  
 Is anyone painting today??????


----------



## pctazhp

CF:  You might be interested in this:   https://smile.amazon.com/Color-Transparent-Correction-Lighting-Plastic/dp/B004A9PMGE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1486849846&sr=8-4&keywords=led+color+cover


----------



## connieflyer

Great idea maybe all I have to do is put a filter over a lamp don't have to pay name or just change the room color any time a lot thank you PCT what a great guy


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Hi H1.
> 
> I'm now certain they are mesh plates. It's actually easier to see the fine mesh-work when the tube is in use when a combination of the orange internal glow plus external torch shows the interior much better.
> 
> It does sound like a real peach of a tube, and paired with the Siemens there's a very easy fluidity to the sound, plenty rhythm, dynamics and detail in a warm acoustic-but not overbearingly so-just very natural and easy sounding-like the amp was enjoying the music too. I'm sounding ridiculous now-but that's the effect Elise has-taking me somewhere else.


 
  
 Certainly does sound like you've struck gold in them there hills, H13...or should it be in that there river below lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(you've described the "mesh effect" - plus Elise/Euforia, of course! -  to perfection...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


pctazhp said:


> With the skill gained from painting Euforia LED, you can move on to paint your wagon.
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone painting today??????




  
 You bet, pct..._Paint me Blue_ lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...well, my LED at least...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I have heard some grumblings about the expected white LED on forthcoming Euforia. Me thinks some people [won't name any names, at least in this post - you know who you are )))))] have too much time on their hands. Or too many hands on their time.


 
  
 My Schiit LED is white.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Great idea maybe all I have to do is put a filter over a lamp don't have to pay name or just change the room color any time a lot thank you* PCT what a great guy*


 
  
 Oh, Pshaw


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like everyone wants mesh plates but they are as rare as hens teeth now.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/502306/la-figaro-339/2205#post_10383552


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> My Schiit LED is white.


 
 Come to think of it, so is mine. Hallelujah !!! There is harmony in the Universe


----------



## UntilThen

Ummm white LED doesn't go too well. Need to put a blue cap over it.


----------



## connieflyer

We heard a loud cracking sound, and could not pinpoint what it was or where it came from. Watching the news tonight, they had a story with pictures.  They identified the source as PCT actually telling a funny joke!  Noise was so great from the unexpected humor, it broke up all the ice as far as the Mackinaw Bridge!


----------



## pctazhp

OK CF. I fell asleep reading about Michigan's state bird, the Coo Coo Bird, which explains my delay in responding.
  
 Now I'm going to have to bring out my big guns.
  
 Why did the chicken cross the road? Because he wanted to.
  
 What did the mirror say to the wall?  First they framed me, then they hung me.
  
 Why did the moron throw his watch across the road? Because he wanted to see time fly.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> We heard a loud cracking sound, and could not pinpoint what it was or where it came from. Watching the news tonight, they had a story with pictures.  They identified the source as PCT actually telling a funny joke!  Noise was so great from the unexpected humor, it broke up all the ice as far as the Mackinaw Bridge!


 
 CF:  What do you get when you cross a very big truck with a beaver chewing on wood?
  
 You get a Mackinaw.


----------



## connieflyer

And I raise you  one


----------



## connieflyer

PCT does your memory go back this far?  Terri Gibbs


----------



## UntilThen

No his memory is gone.


----------



## connieflyer

I don't think it is entirely gone, just missing a few cogs in the wheel!


----------



## UntilThen

Can you ask Lukasz the specific transformer we are getting with Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

I can ask but probably won't say.  I figure if H1 doesn't know, I am sure they are playing it quite.  Hope it is real good one


----------



## UntilThen

I just found out that owners of LF339 are using Pentodes as triodes strapped just as we are doing with EL11 in Elise.

They are using EF80 and EF86 with adapters as drivers.

I bought a pair of RCA 5693 from the seller. These tubes are red and hot just like the weather here.


----------



## connieflyer

Before I bought the Elise, I was looking at the LF339, liked what I read. Glad your weather is so moderate!


----------



## connieflyer

Well, Connor wants to go for a walk so I will just remind PCT of what folks sing when he comes in sight!  He is our hero!


----------



## mordy

About too bright LED lights:
  
 I bought a Dell PC that had a blue LED power light that was way too bright. One of my grandchildren had a sheet with little round stickers and smiley faces. Just took a colored one and stuck it on and it's just fine now.
  
 Just suggesting a low cost alternative.....
  
 However, at this time the LED light is covered by all the shoe boxes where I keep my ever increasing tube collection.
  
 ATM listening to an RFT EL11 + the short Loewe-Opta EL11 with the RFT EL12N. Truly nice sound. The little L-O is just a drop taller than the RFT 12N, but sounds quite good.
  
 Another thing I think is true- when switching these tubes it takes a while (maybe 1/2 hour or more) before they sound their best. Could be that the auto biasing circuit needs to adjust itself or maybe the tubes need to warm up. Does anybody else have this experience?


----------



## pctazhp

I see in my absence there has been the usual proliferation of fake news about me. My memory has even been questioned.
  
 As for the music posted, I'd like to listen to it but I can't remember how to listen to music on this site.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> About too bright LED lights:
> 
> I bought a Dell PC that had a blue LED power light that was way too bright. One of my grandchildren had a sheet with little round stickers and smiley faces. Just took a colored one and stuck it on and it's just fine now.
> 
> ...


 
 We try to avoid bias on this thread and treat each other with respect. So please don't ask any more stupid questions, especially ones I don't know the answer to.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 I think that I remember that h1 brought up the point of the auto biasing circuit in the Euforia needing time to adjust. Since I made the observation that when turning on the amp the tubes improve in sound after a little while, I was speculating that this may be one reason.


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, sorry to mess with your EL13 euphoria (pun intended) but can you give me a quick summary of past experience with 6sn7gtb and whether you have experimented with Meltz? If anyone's curious about why I am asking, it's as per the advice of the Elise's makers (personal communication)

Edit: oops, sorry, didn't realize I was posting on the Euforia thread. Moving to the Elise thread, please disregard this post here.


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> About too bright LED lights:
> 
> I bought a Dell PC that had a blue LED power light that was way too bright. One of my grandchildren had a sheet with little round stickers and smiley faces. Just took a colored one and stuck it on and it's just fine now.
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely, mordy
  
 One channel comes on before the other, and initially I thought there was a problem. It's often obvious with c3g tubes too. Less obvious with other tube types.
  
 After about 10-30 seconds, sometimes even a bit longer, the other channel comes in. I've noticed this happens only from when music is playing- not from when I power up Elise.
  
 There's often also some heater clinking and clanging, with some tubes up to about 15 minutes, but all soon settles down.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Looks like everyone wants mesh plates but they are as rare as hens teeth now.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/502306/la-figaro-339/2205#post_10383552


 
  
 Hmmm, UT....that mesh looks like _*stamped*_, not _*woven*_....world of difference lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (so I believe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> I think that I remember that h1 brought up the point of the auto biasing circuit in the Euforia needing time to adjust. Since I made the observation that when turning on the amp the tubes improve in sound after a little while, I was speculating that this may be one reason.


 
  
 Hi mordy...fear not, pct is running in hyper-josh mode at present, in eager anticipation (apprehension?!) of his girls' return (not to mention Euforia!!). Pity the poor fellow!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(white suits on the way to you as I speak @pctazhp!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps  Not sure if it's down to the tube or the amp's need for time to adjust lol...probaby _*both!!!*_





...CHEERS!
  


angpsi said:


> Hi guys, sorry to mess with your EL13 euphoria (pun intended) but can you give me a quick summary of past experience with 6sn7gtb and whether you have experimented with Meltz? If anyone's curious about why I am asking, it's as per the advice of the Elise's makers (personal communication)
> 
> Edit: oops, sorry, didn't realize I was posting on the Euforia thread. Moving to the Elise thread, please disregard this post here.


 
  
 Hi angpsi...I found the Melz to be a very good tube, but never tried the fancy (expensive!) ones with the holes. They were a very dynamic sound, which divides opinion it would appear. Great if the rest of the system needs a kick in the a**, but far from 'delicate and refined' lol!!! Also, there are a lot of dodgy examples about...I gave up on them after having to return 3 of them...but if you're lucky, who knows?!!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm, UT....that mesh looks like _*stamped*_, not _*woven*_....world of difference lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Imitation mesh? I have to start weaving it myself.


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Imitation mesh? I have to start weaving it myself.




Yep. Perforated.


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> Absolutely, mordy
> 
> One channel comes on before the other, and initially I thought there was a problem. It's often obvious with c3g tubes too. Less obvious with other tube types.
> 
> ...


 

 I also have certain tube pairs where one channel will come on before the other, but with pairs that exhibit this behavior I've never been able to detect any difference in sound when I switch them.
  
 I do get a little nervous when I hear "clinking and clanging" with tubes as they warm up. Certainly if that doesn't go away, the tube is probably bad and may be getting ready to wipe out a pair of good headphones.


----------



## 2359glenn

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm, UT....that mesh looks like _*stamped*_, not _*woven*_....world of difference lol!!
> ...


 

 That is a 6SJ7 and what you see is not the plate it is a shield most 6SJ7s are metal tubes and the glass ones have a internal shield.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> That is a 6SJ7 and what you see is not the plate it is a shield most 6SJ7s are metal tubes and the glass ones have a internal shield.


 
  
 Ah so, Glenn...thanks for clarifying...(which means it doesn't even have a _perforated_ plate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - will stick to my mesh Valvo EL11s LOL!!..._*fabulous *_tubes!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> I also have certain tube pairs where one channel will come on before the other, but with pairs that exhibit this behavior I've never been able to detect any difference in sound when I switch them.
> 
> I do get a little nervous when I hear "clinking and clanging" with tubes as they warm up. Certainly if that doesn't go away, the tube is probably bad and may be getting ready to wipe out a pair of good headphones.


 
 That's my experience too, and I have to throw away a tube that makes heater noises for more than a few minutes anyway as I find it intrusive. Fortunately not a common problem.


----------



## hypnos1

Now then @UntilThen...what's all this about Octopuses (or should that be Octop_*i*_ lol?!!!)...._*Where is it?!*_ ...(only one beast at the moment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...)  :
  

  

  
 All I need now is a small, chrome cup plonked on top, to match the Valvo EL11s...et voila!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And my silver wire does indeed make a difference already (after all, that is a very long anode wire!!)...without even 5 mins of warmup, it's singing like a canary...and that piano note decay is simply sublime lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...boding _extremely_ well!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps....Folks, that top anode has been WELL insulated - don't want any bare metal here lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!


----------



## pctazhp

howie13 said:


> That's my experience too, and I have to throw away a tube that makes heater noises for more than a few minutes anyway as I find it intrusive. Fortunately not a common problem.


 

 It actually kind of amazes me how few problems I have had with decades old tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Now then @UntilThen...what's all this about Octopuses (or should that be Octop_*i*_ lol?!!!)...._*Where is it?!*_ ...(only one beast at the moment...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The true work of a master. You have tamed the monster from the deep.


----------



## HOWIE13

pctazhp said:


> It actually kind of amazes me how few problems I have had with decades old tubes.


 
 Yes I've had more problems with current production ones, like the Chinese equivalent of a 6H13P that shorted and blew up my previous  K701. It wasn't with Elise though. I think Elise has safety circuits to protect headphones .


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks @pctazhp...but who knows what that _second_ sucker might get up to lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 However, if the second Spezial (which is a Telefunken) matches/surpasses the RFT... (_*if it works!!!*_)...then my eyes will be even more scary than Peter Lorre's!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...wish me luck, my white-coated friend...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1
  
 Great work H1. Looks and sounds  fabulous.
  
 When you have a moment would you be able to very briefly summarise what all the adaptations were?  
  
 I know we've been discussing the project over a period, but my memory span only covers about two pages of this fecund thread.
  
 Thanks again.
  
 H13.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> Great work H1. Looks and sounds  fabulous.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks to you too H13...and you @connieflyer...for your kind words...(but these jobs seem to be taking me FAR longer to complete than just a while back...getting old, alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...).
  
 And sorry H13...which adaptations are we talking here, mon ami?...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks to you too H13...and you @connieflyer...for your kind words...(but these jobs seem to be taking me FAR longer to complete than just a while back...getting old, alas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL That's the thing-you are so inventive I can't keep up.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm wondering what adaptations you have made in the recent set-up in the pictures above. I'm not clear what all the tubes are either. Thanks again.


----------



## connieflyer

H1 now that you admit to getting old (no where's close to me) I thought I would send you some American Indian music to relax you for the rest of the  day.


----------



## connieflyer

Or perhaps a little Liquid Mind for that nice bass note
  
 
  
  
 or a relaxing piano with David London


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys, sorry to keep rubbing it in, but with just an hour on my first EL12 'Spezial' accompanying a standard 12, I can see why they are indeed called "Specials"...goosebumps galore already lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Even though a (slightly) used tube, I've never known a 'fresh' one sound so good so soon in the amp...and all for £17 (ebay asleep job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...I feel so _guilty!!!_





...(especially as I should really be getting on adapting the second one, but methinks that will have to wait 'til tomorrow - need a few more minutes of magic before slaving over a hot stove LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...would you deny me?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...BFN...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Well guys, sorry to keep rubbing it in, but with just an hour on my first EL12 'Spezial' accompanying a standard 12, I can see why they are indeed called "Specials"...goosebumps galore already lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your job is to make all of us green with envy of you. I wish I was anywhere as close to being as successful in my job as you are in yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm becoming fairly comfortable in the straight jacket, and one of my keepers is kind enough to do the posting for me. Fortunately the girls will be here soon to unbuckle me, although I know I will still have to spend a lot of time in my cage.
  
 Actually, I was prepared for the straight jacket because any time I ever tried a project like your spez undertaking I felt like I was in a straight jacket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep up the good work. You know that CF demands we all keep him entertained. That's why I keep him supplied with my unbelievably hilarious jokes. He has already heard all of Connor's several times.


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Well guys, sorry to keep rubbing it in, but with just an hour on my first EL12 'Spezial' accompanying a standard 12, I can see why they are indeed called "Specials"...goosebumps galore already lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think I've got it!
  
 You have EL11's as drivers and you have an EL12ST plus a modified EL12 spez as powers.
  
 So essentially you have modified the spez so it doesn't utilise the top anode connection and so doesn't need the buzz/ hum inducing wire connector?


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> LOL That's the thing-you are so inventive I can't keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi again H13...the only adaptations have indeed been with regard to tubes lol - Valvo mesh plate EL11 drivers, with old bases removed (easy(ier!) 'cos they were loose, thank Heavens !!) and new brass and gold-plated octal bases attached, using pure silver wire covered in Teflon tubing, and silver-content solder.
  
 The powers are an RFT EL12 'Spezial' to the left, to which I've attached a new black w/gold-plated pins octal base (couldn't risk trying to remove the old base as it wasn't loose, alas!). And again, using pure silver wire inside Teflon tubing...and luckily I didn't have to screen the long anode wire connection to the top cap of the tube, which helps it to 'disappear' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...not a hint of distortion, thank the Gods. I didn't use the new white ceramic base that's on the EL12 to the right because I wanted to take the anode wire out the hatch I make at the back of the plastic type...plus the hatch allows me to pack the inside with 'BluTak' instead of the 2-part resin I used to use for sealing (the heat generated while curing would seem to be a possible source of trouble to the connections inside! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...BluTak does a good job of insulating things even further inside the base and is _flexible_ in the event of heat build-up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And so I'm sure that pure silver wire (clamped where possible to the tube's own wires - plus silver-content solder - and the additional isolation/insulation helps with the sound a fair bit, compared to the PCB or/and less exotic wire used in most commercial adapters...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Hope this gives you a bit more  idea of what I've been up to...and still _am_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> I think I've got it!
> 
> You have EL11's as drivers and you have an EL12ST plus a modified EL12 spez as powers.
> 
> So essentially you have modified the spez so it doesn't utilise the top anode connection and so doesn't need the buzz/ hum inducing wire connector?


 
  
 Yep H13...you've _just_ about got it...WELL DONE lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...EXCEPT...there's no way round the top anode alas - it does indeed only come out of the _*top!!*_
  
 The (my!) silver wire, inside its Teflon tubing, still has to run from there down to the base, and I had wondered whether I would need to add some unsightly shielding/screening which would then have needed grounding!...but fortunately, I get no buzz/hum/interference of any kind..._*phew!!*_ Thus I can keep things just as I like 'em..._*nice 'n neat lol!*_





...
  
 And glad the girls will soon be rescuing you @pctazhp...amazing how you've survived at all without them all this while!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but how on Earth will poor @connieflyer cope when you head off to colder climes?...he's gonna drive all the rest of us to white suits lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry D!...you know we're all here for you, really...???!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Yep H13...you've _just_ about got it...WELL DONE lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Before the move, CF and I will have a heart to heart talk. I'm optimistic that some of my megalomania maturity will rub off on him.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @connieflyer...I bet those videos are GREAT...only they're "not available" here lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thanks anyway...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yeah @pctazhp...I hear you re. the 'strait jacket'...exactly how I feel sometimes adapting these tubes!!...no matter how many I've already done lol!


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1
  
 Many thanks for that summary. Your work really has paid dividends. Those tubes certainly do sound special. Also the mesh plate Valvos.
  
 When I look down from the top into my powered on EL12 mesh plate Valvo, instead of just seeing the usual area of  orange glow around the heater the whole of the inside of the tube is glowing orange, like it's on fire. I'm presuming the heater glow is being transmitted through the mesh to the rest of the tube.
 I tried to photograph it but couldn't get decent pictures, alas.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> Many thanks for that summary. Your work really has paid dividends. Those tubes certainly do sound special. Also the mesh plate Valvos.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah H13...I can well imagine the beautiful glow you describe - unfortunately I can't see that in my EL11s because of the completely silver-covered tops and black glass lol...it ain't fair!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(reckon you could easily get bog-eyed soaking up such beauty! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ENJOY!...).


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Yeah H13...I can well imagine the beautiful glow you describe - unfortunately I can't see that in my EL11s because of the completely silver-covered tops and black glass lol...it ain't fair!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's actually pretty amazing and if I squint in the right direction I can see the mesh.
 What I really need is a tripod and you need a mesh plates clear top EL12.


----------



## pctazhp

I've got something new for @connieflyer to worry about as he waits for his new Euforia to arrive. To oppose gravity requires force or power. Thus up signifies presence of power. However on Elise power is turned on by pushing the power button down. Shouldn't FA correct that in their new Euforia???
  
 CF:  You have been uncharacteristically quiet today. What's the problem? Has the cat you bought from @UntilThen got your tongue???


----------



## connieflyer

No cat, just finished up second day of painting, remind me painting is my second least favorite thing to do. Worst thing is drywall repair. One room down and now I'm going to relax. When we have our heart to heart talk before you leave the country I hope you can find a heart somewhere. I may be tired but I've still got it, whatever that is


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Now then @UntilThen...what's all this about Octopuses (or should that be Octop_*i*_ lol?!!!)...._*Where is it?!*_ ...(only one beast at the moment...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 O M G.... did you cut the wire and set if free? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You know it's kind of funny looking now with the anode cap sticking out. BUT if it sounds special as you said, then it's all good. 
  
 I'm going to pass on the 'special' because my Telefunken EL12 are sounding so good now. 
  
 Besides I've got to chase some EF86 and those elusive 6SJ7 mesh plate or as @2359glenn says, it's not mesh but shield.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> No cat, just finished up second day of painting, remind me painting is my second least favorite thing to do. Worst thing is drywall repair. One room down and now I'm going to relax. When we have our heart to heart talk before you leave the country I hope you can find a heart somewhere. I may be tired but I've still got it, whatever that is


 

 I'm glad someone is doing something productive today. I'm certainly not


----------



## connieflyer

Somehow that does not surprise me!


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> It's actually pretty amazing and if I squint in the right direction I can see the mesh.
> What I really need is a tripod and you need a mesh plates clear top EL12.


 
  
 This hobby is getting very obsessive. Peering into tubes and staring down a lighted tube with a camera mounted on a tripod... when you wife walks into the room and seeing you do that.... you have some explanations to do !!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Somehow that does not surprise me!


 

 I understand, but it does give me time to consider some important issues. For example, have you ever thought that the name "Telefunken" carries with it some unfortunate connotations. Perhaps H1 will consider adopting a rule that from now on this manufacturer must be referred to as "TFK".
  
 Edit:  If you are confused, you may want to look it up in your Funk and Wagnalls. https://www.paleycenter.org/rowan-martin-laugh-in


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> This hobby is getting very obsessive. Peering into tubes and staring down a lighted tube with a camera mounted on a tripod... when you wife walks into the room and seeing you do that.... you have some explanations to do !!!


 

 Please post a list of your explanations for future reference.


----------



## pctazhp

Does anyone know of a sleeping pill that will put me to sleep safely for 9 days????


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Please post a list of your explanations for future reference.


 
  
 I can't because I fell asleep last night whilst listening to Mahler Symphony No. 9 using the Telefunken EL tubes. It is that hypnotic.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I can't because I fell asleep last night whilst listening to Mahler Symphony No. 9 using the Telefunken EL tubes. It is that hypnotic.


 

 I really love Mahler. Strange we don't talk about him much.
  
 Edit:  And I did get the subtle reference to H1 ))))


----------



## angpsi

hypnos1 said:


> Now then @UntilThen
> ...what's all this about Octopuses (or should that be Octop_*i*_ lol?!!!)...._*Where is it?!*_ ...(only one beast at the moment... ...)  :
> 
> 
> ...




So if I'm getting this right, you managed to get a working result out of the same design as MrsX's? In what way would you say it's different than my buzzing set? Is it just bad luck on my side? Perhaps the HD600 are part of the equation?

In conclusion, should I get rid of my spez or is there hope for me too?


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> Does anyone know of a sleeping pill that will put me to sleep safely for 9 days????


 now this might sound like a cheap shot but listening to you for a straight hour would probably put me to sleep for at least 9 or 10 days straight!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> So if I'm getting this right, you managed to get a working result out of the same design as MrsX's? In what way would you say it's different than my buzzing set? Is it just bad luck on my side? Perhaps the HD600 are part of the equation?
> 
> In conclusion, should I get rid of my spez or is there hope for me too?


 
  
 When @hypnos1  puts a brass cup on top, he'll be in business. You'll be able to send him your Spez to be adapted for a golden fee.
  
 And I'll be his PR manager.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> This hobby is getting very obsessive. Peering into tubes and staring down a lighted tube with a camera mounted on a tripod... when you wife walks into the room and seeing you do that.... you have some explanations to do !!!


 
 Guess what-yesterday she threatened to find a counsellor  to stop me talking to Elise and my valves. There's no hope anymore!


----------



## Oskari

^ Does she talk to the houseplants? :rolleyes:


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> ^ Does she talk to the houseplants?


 
  
 Yes and that's why they don't survive very long.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> now this might sound like a cheap shot but listening to you for a straight hour would probably put me to sleep for at least 9 or 10 days straight!


 

 I think you may be on to something. Tonight I'm going to try talking to myself for an hour. Oh heck, that won't work. I talk to myself all day long and all that happens is I laugh a lot at my jokes.


----------



## pctazhp

oskari said:


> ^ Does she talk to the houseplants?


 
  
  


howie13 said:


> Yes and that's why they don't survive very long.


 

 Oksari and Howie. CF and I have our eyes on both of you and may soon be inviting you to join our touring comedy troupe. We travel from small town to small town on back roads in a recycled bus from the 1940, appearing mainly in mostly empty lower school auditoriums (actually they are usually just classrooms). However, we think we are quite hilarious and keep ourselves in stitches all day long.
  
 The only real disadvantage of our troupe I can think of is CF is our cook while we're on the road.


----------



## connieflyer

By the way you look, the bacon has been cooked just right!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> By the way you look, the bacon has been cooked just right!


 

 You mean like you feed Connor???


----------



## connieflyer

He will only eat chicken strips, for some reason he does not like most treats.  Probably the chemical smell, I know I cut way back on them, they upset my stomach


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> We travel from small town to small town on back roads in a recycled bus from the 1940




Sounds good. Connor shall be approving my rations for me.


----------



## mordy

Elderly patient: Doc, I find that I am talking to myself all the time.
  
 Doc: It's not so unusual for older people to talk to themselves; why, even I find myself talking to myself sometimes. Nothing to worry about.
  
 Patient: But I am a nag!


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> When @hypnos1  puts a brass cup on top, he'll be in business. You'll be able to send him your Spez to be adapted for a golden fee.
> 
> And I'll be his PR manager.


 

 Well, it always comes down to good PR, doesn't it?...


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> So if I'm getting this right, you managed to get a working result out of the same design as MrsX's? In what way would you say it's different than my buzzing set? Is it just bad luck on my side? Perhaps the HD600 are part of the equation?
> 
> In conclusion, should I get rid of my spez or is there hope for me too?


 
  
 Hi angpsi...a few $64,000 questions there lol!
  
 Firstly, the way I adapt my tubes should help minimise any possible gremlins from the intricacies of adapters...this job is _not_  (and echoed by Glenn himself), "as simple as it gets" in the words of one of our illustrious members lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And so you'd best wait until @HOWIE13 has tried his to see whether all is fine with the adapters. In theory, they should in fact be OK in operation, at least.
  
 Your cure via touching the anode wire would indeed indicate a grounding of interference, which may not be quite so easy to remedy in a way that isn't cumbersome/unsightly. Your HPs shouldn't really contribute too much to this problem...but stranger things have happened! Perhaps you can borrow some others just to test?
  
 But it could indeed be that you are just one of the *UN*lucky ones, alas...everyone's environment is different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...see what happens with H13...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. If no joy, I'll happily take them off your hands for what you paid, and check they are indeed OK (we could easily then get refunded if it's the tubes after all!), but fully understand if you want to try and get more on ebay lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> When @hypnos1  puts a brass cup on top, he'll be in business. You'll be able to send him your Spez to be adapted for a golden fee.
> 
> And I'll be his PR manager.


 
  
 Yo UT...still searching for the perfect "cup" lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I'm afraid you'll be out of a job alas...this adapting lark is beginning to lose its appeal!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(thank goodness Euforia + mesh-plate EL11s + EL12s could very well _truly_ be my end game this time....[where have I heard that before lol?!!!]...).


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> ^ Does she talk to the houseplants?


 
  
 Mine certainly talks to _*this*_ houseplant...with such comforting words as...._*haven't you finished that tube yet?!!!*_...which leads nicely onto below...
  


howie13 said:


> Yes and that's why they don't survive very long.


 
  
 So *that's* why the lady's been asking if I've made my will yet LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...bless her...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> Hi angpsi...a few $64,000 questions there lol!
> 
> Firstly, the way I adapt my tubes should help minimise any possible gremlins from the intricacies of adapters...this job is _not_  (and echoed by Glenn himself), "as simple as it gets" in the words of one of our illustrious members lol!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Impeccable timing, H1-THE ADAPTERS HAVE ARRIVED-only took a week too-is that a good or bad omen?
  
 Will post  later today-keeping fingers crossed!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> thank goodness Euforia + mesh-plate EL11s + EL12s could very well _truly_ be my end game this time....


 
  
 As far as Elise goes, that's also where I stop. It's been an incredible journey. I did not know that my interest in collecting tubes would outdo that of my orchids collection once.
  
 Now I've been told that the La Figaro 339 has been send out today and is on it's way to me. It will get here before Euforia. I already have 3 of the recommended drivers. Siemens EF80, Mullard EF80 and RCA 5693. I'll be pairing it with my Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998, Cetron 7236 and Chatham 6520.
  
 With the Euforia, I won't be doing much tube rolling. I already know which tubes that I want to try in it. I'm really looking forward to it. To say that I'm excited is an understatement. I really want to know how these amps compare. I think they will be very different sound signatures.
  
 This is journey's end in Elise tube rolling for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really love this amp. It's sad to see her being replaced by Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Impeccable timing, H1-THE ADAPTERS HAVE ARRIVED-only took a week too-is that a good or bad omen?
> 
> Will post  later today-keeping fingers crossed!


 
  
 Must be GOOD H13...???!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...fingers _*and*_ toes crossed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> As far as Elise goes, that's also where I stop. It's been an incredible journey. I did not know that my interest in collecting tubes would outdo that of my orchids collection once.
> 
> Now I've been told that the La Figaro 339 has been send out today and is on it's way to me. It's will get here before Euforia. I already have 3 of the recommended drivers. Siemens EF80, Mullard EF80 and RCA 5693. I'll be pairing it with my Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998, Cetron 7236 and Chatham 6520.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...that's Elise and Euforia pretty well sorted(?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...but I've a feeling you'll be right back on that ol' treadmill with your LF339 LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...GOOD LUCK!!, my friend....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. Re. Elise and Euforia, think of it as less losing a dear friend, more gaining a non-identical twin that _looks_ like an identical one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And now this houseplant needs to get busy lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(what's that I can hear?...the sound of falling leaves??!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...BFN.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Well UT...that's Elise and Euforia pretty well sorted(?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 With Euforia, I'm not just using EL11 and EL12. In fact I'll start off with 6sn7 and 6as7. I'll go *adapterless *for a start before I hit EL11 and EL12. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll start off with Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top with Tung Sol 5998, followed by Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb. I'll listen to the Psvane 6sn7 too. 
  
 With LF339, all the hard work is done for me. I'll just run with some of the recommended combos from the Figaro's thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ... namely Mullard EF80 and Bendix 6080wb and RCA 5683 with Tung Sol 7236.
  
 Fortunately for me, the only indoor plant that's left is one pot of phalaenopsis. This is what happens after one crazy year of head-fi and Elise.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> I'll listen to the *Psvane 6sn7* too.


 
  
Finally! I've been feeling so lonely in this deserted island... Btw, I won't mind if you rebuked my impressions; besides _I'm_ the tube noob here and I'd love to compare views!


----------



## pctazhp

I really hated waking up this morning. Math challenges on the other thread and now I'm reminded the two potted rose bushes left in my care are both dead


----------



## connieflyer

Well, if the roses were potted, they went out with a smile!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well, if the roses were potted, they went out with a smile!


 

 It's not their smile I'm worried about ))))


----------



## angpsi

Latest from the EL12spez front—see my post #6362 on the Elise thread.
  
 (help!)


----------



## HOWIE13

angpsi said:


> Latest from the EL12spez front—see my post #6362 on the Elise thread.
> 
> (help!)


 
 My initial experiments with the EL12 spez are now posted on the Elise thread too.(#6375, p425)
  
 Much appreciation to angpsi, for initially having the idea of asking MrsX to create an adapter so we could use this tube.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> And now this houseplant needs to get busy lol!  ....(what's that I can hear?...the sound of falling leaves??!!!   )...BFN.




Don't forget to feed Bob, CJ. 



 http://m.imgur.com/gallery/CPpeV


----------



## connieflyer

This is an aside for @hypnos1 think of this?


----------



## pctazhp

Used to listen to California Dreamin' a lot while in college in New Jersey during all those grey, dark, cloudy, gloomy, snowy, icy days. Can understand why CF is still listening to it.
  
 Did I forget to mention high of 22C expected today here in Scottsdale?


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> With Euforia, I'm not just using EL11 and EL12. In fact I'll start off with 6sn7 and 6as7. I'll go *adapterless *for a start before I hit EL11 and EL12.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those initial trials will be great news for folks not into the very latest (finnicky!!) tubes lol...good man!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I must be super lucky, UT...after over 2 years of Elise and now Euforia magic, I still have four healthy phalaes - one in full(ish) bloom, one with a load of new flower buds soon to open (in Winter!!!), and two resting after flowering all year...they seem to be thriving on neglect lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Anyway, second EL12 Spezial (a TFK) finished - apart from top cover(!) - and this one also is singing like the proverbial canary...and not the slightest hint of buzz, hum, you-name-it!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So then...oh dear...we now have @HOWIE13 as well as @angpsi with interference problems. As I suspected, the problem obviously lies with the adapters alas. And it would appear there'll be no joy from MrsX...she went over to using PCBs instead of wires because the latter (as I mentioned previously) can indeed be far trickier than most folks ever realise. But there's evidently still something amiss with them, as far as _our_ use is concerned, and I'm afraid I cannot shed any real light on this situation...apart from the obvious grounding issue!
  
 The fact that _*both *_mine are working perfectly as powers certainly contradicts her assertions, and once again I fear I simply cannot comment further on this.
  
 It is very sad that once again these EL12 tubes are proving to be very tricky/unpredictable, and that luck seems to be having to play far too big a part in being a reliable, and therefore recommendable tube...tragic, even, because when all is well they perform better than any tubes we have come across...and by a good margin!
  
 With only a short time on Spezial #2, together with the first they do indeed bring something extra to to the table. It's too early to get the full picture, but the initial 'hit' is that they seem to rein in the 12's slight tendency to _over_-eagerness with already heavily dynamic music (especially with Euforia). There's a bit more air and separation, with a touch of the GEC/Osram's wonderfully refined 'polish'...which combined with the 12's greater dynamism and bigger soundstage (not to mention that incredible bass!), is very impressive indeed.
  
 This is where the difference between such as the HD650s and the T1s really gets highlighted. After using the Senns as dispensable 'fodder' for testing, and then swapping over to the Beyers, the difference is most definitely _*night and day!*_...there is _*no comparison*_...and certainly more so now with Euforia even than with Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...I am fast coming to the conclusion that by far the best assessment of different tubes' performance comes from TOTL cans...and I must repeat my assertion that folks should do all they possibly can to spoil their amps - and themselves! - by stretching the budget to accommodate them..._if at all possible LOL!!_







  
 Anyway, this is how she looks now...but I've just _*got*_ to find some snazzy covers to go on top lol! ...CHEERS!...
  

  

  
 Those Octopus tentacles ain't gonna harm _anyone_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 ps. I'm really sorry folks are having those problems with the EL12 (ST)...especially the 'Spezials'. Afraid I don't have any ideas as to how the noise can be tamed in any 'neat' kind of way...sad indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


oskari said:


> Don't forget to feed Bob, CJ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Indeed O...but what about Fred; Alice; Jane; "Big Boy"; Bruce; Beryl; Goromo; "ShubbyKoi"; Goldie; Hi-Yo Silver; Gloucester....etc. etc. etc....?!!!...HELP!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(NO... MORE...TUBES...lol)!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


connieflyer said:


> This is an aside for @hypnos1 think of this?




  
 Never stop dreamin', cf...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..."Those were the days, my friend..." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1
  
 Beautiful work with those adapters. Well done!
  
 The spez must sound VERY spez as power tubes, but at least I can console myself with the fact I can use them as drivers, where they comparatively sound equally good, or I can use a Faraday cage or kitchen foil if I wish to use them as powers-not very aesthetic though. I do hope angpsi can get his working without hum too, at least as drivers.
  
 As to reliability, I've found the newer, straight bottle RFT EL12N to be completely problem free. Generally a very reliable and quiet tube. I think this is most people's impression.
 If not I'll soon be told!
  
 The more common problems I think are with the older coke bottle shaped EL12ST's which, as you say, when they are working are, like the EL12N, also wonderful, but too often have failed at an early stage after purchase.
  
 In this respect it bothers me greatly that sellers often use a particular German tester that regards 50% emission as 'good', and even 19% as 'useable'.
  
 It's not the seller's fault that the tester gives these conclusions, but to my mind there is a world of difference between being useable in a 1940's bakelite radio and Elise.
 I know these tubes were used in high quality products too, but maybe buyers were more canny in bygone days when tubes were ubiquitous and the knowledge base was far greater than today. Also, there would presumably be many different tube testers, as well as a greater availability of new, unused tubes to purchase.
  
 I do therefore wonder how much of the problems with these old tubes is just due to the fact they are worn out with prior use.  
  
 I would advise anyone purchasing these old coke bottle shaped EL11/12 tubes to look for 75% or more emission result, which errs on the side of caution, but still is no guarantee, of course, so best to use sellers who allow 'returns'.
  
 Oh, and now I can see the silver wire- just.


----------



## connieflyer

Well I finally got some good news here a little while ago my temperature has spiked to 102.7 finally got the temperature to come back down it's down just under a hundred so I'm feeling a little bit better. It was a very nasty afternoon. My sister-in-law and her two kids drove down about 30 miles from where I live to take care of me and make sure I was okay great bunch of people. Hopefully by morning things will be back to normal. That is why I haven't been on the threat all afternoon I wasn't ignoring you trust me. Have a good one


----------



## UntilThen

Good write up @hypnos1 and am really glad for you that both your EL12 spez are working well without any trace or hum. No doubt due to your careful adapting and silver wire. 
  
 Agree too that it's best to use HD800 or T1 when accessing tubes. These headphones are just so revealing. I use my modded HD650 when I want to kick back and relax and not worry about hearing every single note.
  
 My listening session with Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome and Tung Sol 5998 shows what Elise is capable of but when I switch over to EL11 and EL12, I am quite stunned at how much more vibrant the EL tubes sounded. I echo what those guys in review33 says. Once you've heard the EL tubes, it's hard to go back to 6SN7s. 
  
 To @angpsi  I can only say. Stock tubes are basically that. There are easily better pickings out there.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well I finally got some good news here a little while ago my temperature has spiked to 102.7 finally got the temperature to come back down it's down just under a hundred so I'm feeling a little bit better. It was a very nasty afternoon. My sister-in-law and her two kids drove down about 30 miles from where I live to take care of me and make sure I was okay great bunch of people. Hopefully by morning things will be back to normal. That is why I haven't been on the threat all afternoon I wasn't ignoring you trust me. Have a good one


 

 Hope you recover soon, CF. You are missed.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> Beautiful work with those adapters. Well done!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks H13...needless to say, I approached the exercise with a great deal of trepidation lol! It really is weird how the adapter noise is responding to foil that isn't being grounded...goodness knows what's going on there!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...ah well, at least it makes them usable, even if not 'pretty'!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And I agree with your comments on the listings of some of these EL12s...they would indeed appear to be far too close to 'dead' for comfort LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I too would _*never*_ even bother with tubes that didn't have at least 75% strength left in them...just not worth the risk (especially with tubes that have proven to be exceptional!).
  
 Luckily, that Teflon coated wire does disappear quite nicely!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


untilthen said:


> Good write up @hypnos1 and am really glad for you that both your EL12 spez are working well without any trace or hum. No doubt due to your careful adapting and silver wire.
> 
> Agree too that it's best to use HD800 or T1 when accessing tubes. These headphones are just so revealing. I use my modded HD650 when I want to kick back and relax and not worry about hearing every single note.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And thanks to you too UT...I've a feeling I had a bit of luck thrown in as well, getting a totally silent outcome lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 And yes, EL11 and (now!) EL12 Spezial gives a sound that surpasses any other IMHO...depending on the rest of the gear, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...truly wonderful. My Spezials continue to become even more 'Special' with further burn-in...can't wait to hear what a few more days bring...EL tubes certainly are a cut above most others! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


connieflyer said:


> Well I finally got some good news here a little while ago my temperature has spiked to 102.7 finally got the temperature to come back down it's down just under a hundred so I'm feeling a little bit better. It was a very nasty afternoon. My sister-in-law and her two kids drove down about 30 miles from where I live to take care of me and make sure I was okay great bunch of people. Hopefully by morning things will be back to normal. That is why I haven't been on the threat all afternoon I wasn't ignoring you trust me. Have a good one


 
  
 Hey cf...see what happens when you have all this fun with @pctazhp?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....hope it's just a temporary blip, and that you can return to the world of white suits VERY soon lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just you take good care of yourself, mon ami...best, CJ
  
 ps. Take careful note, pct!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...keep that ticker in good shape for the girls lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> Well I finally got some good news here a little while ago my temperature has spiked to 102.7 finally got the temperature to come back down it's down just under a hundred so I'm feeling a little bit better. It was a very nasty afternoon. My sister-in-law and her two kids drove down about 30 miles from where I live to take care of me and make sure I was okay great bunch of people. Hopefully by morning things will be back to normal. That is why I haven't been on the threat all afternoon I wasn't ignoring you trust me. Have a good one


best wishes for a quick recovery!


----------



## connieflyer

This is a piece of music that will give your amp and phones a good workout.


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> This is a piece of music that will give your amp and phones a good workout.





 Wow, that's some good rendition! My gear is enjoying this immensely, and thanks you for the joyful morning workout!
  
 The sound is really impressive; articulate and developing but not offensive. Moved on to the Berliner Philharmoniker's 'Digital Concert Hall' and the same applies to other recordings. Interesting! Wish I manage to see a live performance there eventually, so far I've only made it to the front door. As an architect, the venue and its history (i.e. acoustic design) double up my interest to visit; and it looks like the recording reflects my imagined impression of how a live concert would sound there.


----------



## HOWIE13

Went to the Opera last night and would like to share this memory of the evening with everyone:


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning fellow Euphoria owners! I am here to let you enjoy your amps with a nice rendition, enjoy


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Good morning fellow Euphoria owners! I am here to let you enjoy your amps with a nice rendition, enjoy





 I love Puccini and this is so beautiful. Thanks ))))  I am but a lowly Elise owner, but felt I wouldn't be castigated too much for butting in here


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting fact, I just know you need to know this. I never listened to operatic arias when younger, did not understand the story being told, and still don't some times, but to me it is not so important than to listen to the passion and emotion that some can instill in their works. Natalie Dessay, is one of my favorites, her voice is an instrument unto itself. The clarity and air she brings to her music is very relaxing and enjoyable. It wasn't until I started listening to the voice itself that I found the beauty in that ability. Another from Handel


----------



## connieflyer

No more than I on the Elise thread. Welcome to your new home away from home.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> No more than I on the Elise thread. Welcome to your new home away from home.


 

 I can feel the love )))
  
 I got interested in opera in my 30s through a client who himself was an accomplished opera singer. I started going to performances of the Arizona Opera and was happy to learn that English subtitles were displayed above the stage. Later I served on the Arizona Opera's board of trustees.
  
 Once in New York my x-wife bought me a front row seat at the Met to see a performance of La Boheme. At the Met, they have English subtitles on the back of each seat. It was quite an experience.


----------



## connieflyer

Funny how your tastes can change like that. So much music that I listen to now, I would not have considered earlier in life. Even music like Two Steps from Hell, has an essence that in the right mood, it fits right in. Listening to this now, sure wish I had the Elise right now.


----------



## pctazhp

Question CF:  Have you hired a musical consultant? You certainly have come a long way from Flying Saucers.
  
 Seriously, thanks for the great music this morning. I'm enjoying it a lot.


----------



## connieflyer

I don't want to reveal to much of my inner being all at once, as I do not want to appear superior to mere mortals!  It is true I have an eclectic repertoire, but flying saucers have their place.  Did I ever tell you about the time I flew one?  You may have heard a slight buzzing sound overhead, as the engine was not running well that day. Not as sleek as a Connie, but effective


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps you would appreciate something less high brow? I can do that for you, about three minutes in should interest you


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I don't want to reveal to much of my inner being all at once, as I do not want to appear superior to mere mortals!  It is true I have an eclectic repertoire, but flying saucers have their place.  Did I ever tell you about the time I flew one?  You may have heard a slight buzzing sound overhead, as the engine was not running well that day. Not as sleek as a Connie, but effective


 

 Doesn't surprise me, as you are obviously a being from another part of the universe who has come to bestow upon us mere mortals your grace, charm, sophistication and good looks


----------



## connieflyer

And so I shall with one of my all time favorites, it will at once calm you and inspire you as well, earthing!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Perhaps you would appreciate something less high brow? I can do that for you, about three minutes in should interest you





 That's more up my back alley. I need a cold shower


----------



## connieflyer

Now for  a song from one of my sisters back home..


----------



## connieflyer

This is what happens after being exposed to Earth culture(?)


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> First..@connieflyer...fear not, the EL11s and 12s still are tremendous tubes - I've a feeling most of us are not going to give them up lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This sounds stellar, H1! Would you know if the upgraded transformer applies to all Euforias, or just after a certain invoice number? Alas, looks like it may not have applied to yours though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also I wonder if the noise reduction has anything to do with reducing possible humm / buzz the occasional tube may cause?


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> This sounds stellar, H1! Would you know if the upgraded transformer applies to all Euforias, or just after a certain invoice number? Alas, looks like it may not have applied to yours though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Upgraded transformer applies to all Euforias. Lukasz confirmed that to CF. Good news indeed. A good power transformer makes a difference in any upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

Hehehe just got a message from Lukasz saying they are progressing well on Euforia and that my unit will be shipped at the end of the month.
  
 But but but I'm still enjoying my Figaro and Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

A little oldie for those old enough to remember


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> This sounds stellar, H1! Would you know if the upgraded transformer applies to all Euforias, or just after a certain invoice number? Alas, looks like it may not have applied to yours though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi DL...as UT says, ALL you lucky guys will be getting the new transformer...not me, alas, as this was the result of further testing after my prototype, and the realisation that Henryk's achievements did indeed warrant an upgrade in power supply also lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Ah well, I'm quite sure that my mains supply "Regenerator" does help my already good trafo perform at its best, so all is good...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yes, I'm sure the improved noise reduction circuits will help address those few situations where circumstances conspire to annoy some of us with the odd gremlin or two lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## pctazhp

I'm old enough but having a little trouble remembering. So I'll
  

  
 CF:  Wouldn't you love to see the look on H1's face when he sees us back on the Euforia thread???
  
 And actually I do remember the great Roger Whittaker's song. But if I had said I did, I couldn't have posted this clever post


----------



## connieflyer

Good one, and I suppose it would be fun, to see his face when he sees both of us on here, with questions and reviews and trouble.  Should be fun.  From one old guy to another, hang in there


----------



## UntilThen

Anyone else contacted by Lukasz re their Euforia delivery besides me?


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Anyone else contacted by Lukasz re their Euforia delivery besides me?


Good news or bad news?


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Good news or bad news?


 
  
 Good news of course. 
  
 My Euforia will be shipped at the end of the month i.e in 2 weeks time. They are on track with the progress. That's what Lukasz told me.


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> angpsi said:
> 
> 
> > Good news or bad news?
> ...


 
 I have more good news for you UT.
 The end of the month is only 9 days away.


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> I have more good news for you UT.
> The end of the month is only 9 days away.


 
  
 O M G   how did I forget Feb is a short month. YES !!!


----------



## connieflyer

He told me that my aunt would be shipping the last week of February and he did say that deliveries are on schedule the amps will be ready. So let the countdown begin.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> He told me that my aunt would be shipping the last week of February and he did say that deliveries are on schedule the amps will be ready. So let the countdown begin.


 

 Normally when my aunt travels she drives or flies. I never thought of trying to ship her. You can see I hang on your every word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually, I'm starting to experience separation anxiety, in a metaphorical sort of way. Soon you all will have your beautiful new Euforii and I will have to wait (by choice) until the end of April. You will be so giddy telling each other how wonderful it sounds and how wonderful you all are. I will have to stop listening to music because my Elise won't sound good any more.
  
 Crying in Scottsdale


----------



## connieflyer

Lukasz was using my aunt as a test subject, as being blood related, she had the natural qualities that make my species superior in every way,  including the ability to ride in an unpresurized cargo hold. Very economical you should try it going to your new home, bargain prices and no passengers snoring next to you. To show you the extreme care I use with humans I will select the perfect song for you this morning to instill in you a peace that only comes with great inner tranquility and longing for inner joy. Peace to you Earthling!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good one, and I suppose it would be fun, to see his face when he sees both of us on here, with questions and reviews and trouble.  Should be fun.  From one old guy to another, hang in there


 
  
 From this getting-older-by-the-day guy (any wonder??!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to 2 or more of y'all, just thought you might like to know I'm in the process of borrowing Jim Carrey's "Mask", in the vain hope it might possibly help me cope when the time comes....else I shall indeed be _*doomed, lol!!!*_








...
  
 Failing that, I suppose I'll have to get a 3-D print of UT's oft-posted shocker!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and just hope it fits! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)...OH, my poor head...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> O M G   how did I forget Feb is a short month. YES !!!


 
  
 Hmmmm, UT....why have I the feeling that _*POLISH*_ Feb. could well be a somewhat longer month than _*ours*_ lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but I do hope _not!!!_....and not just for your sake, my good friend, but everyone else's!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  


pctazhp said:


> Normally when my aunt travels she drives or flies. I never thought of trying to ship her. You can see I hang on your every word
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fear not, mon ami, there's no danger _*whatsoever*_ of that happening, pct....*especially* with our EL11/12 combos LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## connieflyer

Enjoy this follow up as I am sure you need more of her.  Did I tell you she is originally off-world? Will you need 115v or 230v?


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer




----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Enjoy this follow up as I am sure you need more of her.  Did I tell you she is originally off-world? Will you need 115v or 230v?


 
 Really love this and the others you posted. She is definitely other worldly, but in an angelic way. You, on the other hand....well, never mind.
  
 It has been raining hard here and a lot of snow in the northern part of the state. So your music is perfect for an Arizona winter day.
  
 I will need 220V. I'm happy about that. It will make me feel sort of "international" or "continental" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Two days and counting)))


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Lukasz was using my aunt as a test subject, as being blood related, she had the natural qualities that make my species superior in every way,  including the ability to ride in an unpresurized cargo hold. Very economical you should try it going to your new home, bargain prices and no passengers snoring next to you. To show you the extreme care I use with humans I will select the perfect song for you this morning to instill in you a peace that only comes with great inner tranquility and longing for inner joy. Peace to you Earthling!




  
 What a coincidence, cf...you bin readin' my mind once again?...(you might not like what resides there sometimes lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








).
  
 Anyway, what I was about to post does in fact relate to you indirectly, so _*well timed!!*_...ie. my own (earlyish!) impressions of mesh Valvo EL11s driving NOS EL12N powers...
  
 Very first reaction was, actually....*YEUCH!!!...*flat as a pancake, dead as a Dodo...and I thought - OH NO!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. No previous NOS tubes had ever started off so badly, so I was just a little worried to say the least. But then I reminded myself that those good guys who've already tried them couldn't ALL be wrong!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and desisted there and then from the torture, to (sensibly!) leave them alone for a good long while....
  
 Gave them five 4-6 hour sessions before even thinking of trying again and...you guessed it...AMAZING!  I could not believe the difference/improvement...the biggest I've ever experienced, in fact - THANK GOODNESS!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and so you are now safe, my friend!)...for such relatively cheap tubes, their performance is truly spectacular - especially when driven by the EL11s!!
  
 Out of interest, I've just popped in the 6H8C's that were the very first stock drivers, and there's no real comparison...pleasant, clear, good upper frequencies...but that's about it, alas! No magic whatsoever. Will try my PsVane CV181TIIs later, which should be a good bit better...(well, they are much more expensive, after all!).
  
 Anyway, back to the EL12Ns..._*very*_ similar to the "Coke Bottle" 12 - from early burn-in - and so suspect the much higher price of the latter just might not be justified...*depending on the rest of the setup!* ...
  
 HOWEVER..._*with my mesh Valvos and 12 'Spezials*'._..it's a different story. As @UntilThen says, the EL11/12 sound is indeed _*BIG*_...and just sometimes, massed instruments can be a tad too forward/prominent for my liking in the presence of vocals that have been recorded 'distant'. But this is remedied by the Spezials, without any loss of that overall BIG sound...and with a resultant (perhaps, therefore, only _apparent!_) slight increase in mids and treble detail especially.
 Another benefit is an increase in air and spatial positioning - 3-D Holographic soundstage, if you will - which, for me personally, is a factor that takes the music experience from great to _*sublime*_....viz, whereas for @mordy his rating for 'greatness' seems usually to be his *"toe-tapping"* index, mine is more a _*"freeze"*_ index...ie. a startle response that freezes all notion of close, serious, analytical scrutiny and judgment, literally "freezing" you to the spot in sheer amazement and incredulous wonder (beyond the sort that can come fleetingly from an experience that is simply "different", but which subsides once the initial response has abated). And is one that even goes beyond a strong _*emotional*_ response to a piece of music lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 Well, this is precisely what happened on a return listen to Loreena McKennitt's "Beneath a Phrygian Sky", from "An Ancient Muse", and which I've heard many times. But only with the Spezials in the power seat did I get the "freeze" factor like never before, and for this alone I rate them beyond words LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And so, is all 100% perfection and light?...well not _quite_, actually...replacing the EL11s with stock drivers has highlighted a very faint _hum_ when the 11s drive the 12s - especially through my HD650s. With the T1s it is only _very_ faint and doesn't distract me at all...in fact is totally unnoticeable while music is playing and have to look for it when everything else around is totally silent. This could well be down to the mains hum I know exists, and which defeats even very efficient mains conditioning and my "Regenerator"...but going for a dedicated mains supply and separate grounding purely for the music system is certainly a step too far...for me, at least lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Ah well, time for a bit of dinner, so CHEERS for now...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Loved the write up. Very clear and concise with just a bit of excitement thrown in!  But I have one question for you, did you like what you heard?  Okay, obvious you did, and so thankful for what you are doing to advance my understanding and enjoyment of the Euforia,  Really miss the headphones, I have tried moving the speakers around to better simulate the headphone experience, but they are heavy and don't sit well on the arms of the chair, and besides, Connor has tired of dragging the subwoofer around the room looking for the best response! One more Loreena as I go, have a great day, or evening as in your case, and PCT and I will try to behave on your new thread. Well I will don't know for sure about his highness, (refers to altitude in Arizona).


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I will need 220V. I'm happy about that. It will make me feel sort of "international" or "continental"


 
  
 Welcome to my world and my voltage. It's hum free and koala cuddly. 
  
 Australia is 230v.   http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r10/nsw/subpages/history/Australian-AC-Line-Voltages.pdf


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks to my brother from another mother and another galaxy, I was enjoying a rare moment of inner tranquility and deep spiritual insight this morning. Then I was jolted out of my trance by H1's most recent report. That led me to frantically scour Ebay for most recent listing of EL11 and 12 tubes.
  
 I noticed right off that there is a cornucopia (for CF that means a lot) of new EL11 and EL12 tube listings. I found a couple of listings for EL12 spez tubes, but there is a considerable price difference between the RFT and TFK spezs. And I couldn't find any EL11s listed as "mesh" plates. Which leaves me with 3 questions.
  
 1. To obtain the result H1 experienced does that require both the spez 12 and a mesh plate 11?
 2. Is there a difference in quality and performance between the RFT and TFK spez tubes?
 3. Why do I even bother with stuff like this?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Welcome to my world and my voltage. It's hum free and koala cuddly.
> 
> Australia is 230v.   http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r10/nsw/subpages/history/Australian-AC-Line-Voltages.pdf


 

 I feel as if I'm ascending into aristocracy.


----------



## pctazhp

This Arizona Highness at all times behaves as one who truly deserves to be called "a gentleman's gentleman".


----------



## connieflyer

Nahhhh! Three words  Nam, Nurses okay only two


----------



## connieflyer

Amazing weather here again, snow two days ago and 2.2 C and today clear sunny and 18.3 C. I convert the temps to ones used by the rest of the world


----------



## pctazhp

For what it's worth, since I started using EL11/EL12n, I haven't felt motivated to go back to the EL12 ST power tubes. Not saying the 12n is better or even as good. Just saying it is highly enjoyable and I feel more motivated to listen to more music than stop and change tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

Takes alot to motivate you, but the girls will be home soon, and you WILL be motivated then or else!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I feel as if I'm ascending into aristocracy.


 
  
 Ascended is correct. You should always look at the world map inverted.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Takes alot to motivate you, but the girls will be home soon, and you WILL be motivated then or else!


 

 I've been practicing my "yes dear"s all day


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Ascended is correct. You should always look at the world map inverted.


 

 Like this?


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Thanks to my brother from another mother and another galaxy, I was enjoying a rare moment of inner tranquility and deep spiritual insight this morning. Then I was jolted out of my trance by H1's most recent report. That led me to frantically scour Ebay for most recent listing of EL11 and 12 tubes.
> 
> I noticed right off that there is a cornucopia (for CF that means a lot) of new EL11 and EL12 tube listings. I found a couple of listings for EL12 spez tubes, but there is a considerable price difference between the RFT and TFK spezs. And I couldn't find any EL11s listed as "mesh" plates. Which leaves me with 3 questions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct..."inner tranquillity" and sparring with your (big?!) brother don't quite gel somehow lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but _*some*_ of his music certainly does induce the states you mention...and other offerings wake you out of them - with a vengeance LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(ps. @connieflyer...LM's "Kecharitomene" will be yet another exhibition piece for my setup at our local meet in April...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Now then P...in answer to your first question, I'm afraid my two RFT EL11s are still in Poland so I can't comment, alas. But will hopefully be adapting my two black glass TFKs fairly soon...unless my two NOS TFK Spezials ($100, incl delivery...not bad!) arrive in the not-too-distant future!
  
 Re. question #2...at present, one of my Spezials is an RFT, one a TFK...and all I can say is that together they are _*magical!*_ And so it's gonna be VERY interesting to see if there's any difference with 2x TFKs!
  
 In answer to #3...well, I'm sure it doesn't need me to explain to you the finer intricacies of serious psychological dysfunction lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(and is, in fact, an essential prerequisite for star membership here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> *I'm afraid my two RFT EL11s are still in Poland *


 
  
 Ha ask Poland to send it back to you and I'll buy it off you. I want adapterless EL11. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Pleaseeeeeeee.
  
 Wait ! Ask Lukasz to packaged it with my Euforia.


----------



## pctazhp

I realize no one cares, but it has been raining here Big League. Those heavy storms hitting California don't stop there but move on to Arizona. The media never covers Arizona except when I hold my weekly news conferences to update on the latest with Elise tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I realize no one cares, but it has been raining here Big League. Those heavy storms hitting California don't stop there but move on to Arizona. The media never covers Arizona except when I hold my weekly news conferences to update on the latest with Elise tubes.


----------



## pctazhp




----------



## pctazhp




----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Ha ask Poland to send it back to you and I'll buy it off you. I want adapterless EL11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well UT...all things are indeed possible lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...as is enjoying your hum-free status Downunder - viz. _*miracle of miracles!! :  *_Having earlier bemoaned my very slight hum from 2x mesh plate Valvo EL11s driving the EL12 Spezials, I replace one of the Valvos with the equivalent mesh plate Aussie Philips EL3NG, swap the Spezials over and hey presto..._*total silence!!*_...mind boggling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So now, I've got to do the various combo swaps to try and find out _precisely_ what's going on here...just who is doing what to/with whom??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least it shows my Spezials are not of themselves the main culprit..._*thank goodness*__*!!*_...given two more incoming LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Plus, the blame can't be placed purely on the Valvo EL11s since there's still one (of the three I have) in situ!...more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 But for now, time to revel in Humphrey "freeze index" splendour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...g'night all...
  
 ps. Just had another "freeze" episode...with Annie Lennox's "No more I Love You's"...too many more of these and my poor ol' ticker just might decide to _*stay*_ frozen LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp




----------



## connieflyer

Thanks PCT perfect song for you, please follow the title!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Thanks PCT perfect song for you, please follow the title!


 

 Within just a few minutes, I have come up with so many crushing retorts, I've lost count. But I'm feeling especially charitable, friendly, kind and magnanimous tonight, So I have chosen to take the higher ground and simply play one of my favorite Dean Martin sings. I even chose one that is well suited to eventide


----------



## connieflyer

While Deano is cool, I have always like this one best.


----------



## connieflyer

And if you should decide to grab an interstellar flight I will have them play this.


----------



## connieflyer

Hope the snow missed you, if not then this should help


----------



## pctazhp

CF:  From my childhood, Jim Reeves has always been one of my favorites. He truly had a golden voice.


----------



## connieflyer

And I know you must be singing this to the girls, well one of them


----------



## connieflyer

An amazing voice, even with the recording quality back then, still please me. Gentleman Jim


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> And I know you must be singing this to the girls, well one of them


 
  
 With that opening, I'll engage in a little public self-indulgence tonight. On my first trip to Ukraine in 2011 when I met my wife, I sang this song to her in a karaoke bar. I'll save you the response. I know. How did we ever progress beyond that to the point of getting married??  ))))


----------



## connieflyer

Another good one. I prefer the way I sing it but then that is just me.  H1 should be pleased that we are moving his thread along, looks like we have it all to ourselves.


----------



## connieflyer

Well 8 pm eastern tiime, might as well take Connor for a walk, and take out the trash for pickup tomorrow. Have a good night PCT, won't be long now.


----------



## connieflyer

Well it's 10:19, I'm back and nobody to greet me, you would think that H1 would at least hang around until midnight to greet wayward strangers! Oh, well, can not get into trouble here, already did on facebook, think I may have lost a sister-in-law, oh well there are two more. Later


----------



## DavidA

Greeting CF, its beer time for me, goes great with twice baked stuffed potatoes filled with bacon, cheese, butter and Dijon mustard.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh man you are killing me! All I had a few hours ago was a frozen dinner that was so memorable, I can not recall what it was, although my stomach did not care for it too much.  That looks great, I must spend more time in the kitchen and cook more. Those potatoes look excellent.  Thanks for sharing, I think!


----------



## DavidA

connieflyer said:


> Oh man you are killing me! All I had a few hours ago was a frozen dinner that was so memorable, I can not recall what it was, although my stomach did not care for it too much.  That looks great, I must spend more time in the kitchen and cook more. Those potatoes look excellent.  Thanks for sharing, I think!


 
 Its one of the first things I learned how to cook with a microwave, there is even a button for potatoes on my microwave oven so its hard to screw up.  The cheese is a blend of cheddar and mozzarella, fine shred, always use real butter, and I usually make my own bacon bits since I use the bacon grease for cooking, its how my mom's generation used to cook with cast iron pans.  Not the best for your health but I'm going to enjoy it while I can.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> For what it's worth, since I started using EL11/EL12n, I haven't felt motivated to go back to the EL12 ST power tubes. Not saying the 12n is better or even as good. Just saying it is highly enjoyable and I feel more motivated to listen to more music than stop and change tubes.


 
  
 I believe the EL11/EL12N would be ideal for your HD800S. I'll make sure I get hold of the HD800S at the meet to listen to this setup.
  
 But really I believe that both EL12 and EL12N as power tubes would be suitable for the HD800S.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Anyway, back to the EL12Ns..._*very*_ similar to the "Coke Bottle" 12 - from early burn-in - and so suspect the much higher price of the latter just might not be justified...*depending on the rest of the setup!* ...


 
  
 I hear you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 EL12N is really good value. I paid euro 19.95 for one NOS RFT EL12N.
  
 The best part is that EL12N has been consistently hum free and interference free whereas the EL12 can be a bit finicky ... unless you're like Pct, who bought a pristine pair of NOS NIB Siemens EL12.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> As @UntilThen says, the EL11/12 sound is indeed _*BIG*_...and just sometimes, massed instruments can be a tad too forward/prominent for my liking in the presence of vocals that have been recorded 'distant'.


 
  
 That BIG presence has been a positive experience for me. I have no negatives about it .... not even a tad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 What is interesting is that you're enjoying these tubes in Euforia as much as we are enjoying it in Elise. The synergy has obviously carried through.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well it's 10:19, I'm back and nobody to greet me, you would think that H1 would at least hang around until midnight to greet wayward strangers! Oh, well, can not get into trouble here, already did on facebook, think I may have lost a sister-in-law, oh well there are two more. Later


 
  
 Sorry cf...fortunately (or not, as the case may be lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) there's just a glimmer of sanity remaining...but don't know for how long!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(besides, I'm pretty sure trouble will seek you out here before very long!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  


untilthen said:


> That BIG presence has been a positive experience for me. I have no negatives about it .... not even a tad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh yes, these tubes are indeed magnificent in Euforia also....you love BIG?...better get prepared for even *BIGGER!!!*...which could, of course, account for the occasional hiccough (for _my_ tastes) I mentioned if the vocals have been poorly placed (ie. too _distant_) relative to dynamic instruments by the recording engineer! 





...(fortunately, I have very few examples of such poor quality engineering...and generally tend to dismiss them anyway lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## pctazhp

In celebration of  *BIG SOUND *I offer:


----------



## connieflyer

I was told about these power cables and thought I would share, I bought one and they seem to be of good quality.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069FLXLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I was told about these power cables and thought I would share, I bought one and they seem to be of good quality.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069FLXLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 

 Nice looking cable with great reviews. I gave up chasing expensive cables a long time ago, but will probably order one or two of these - my kind of price.


----------



## connieflyer

That is the way I feel as well. I don't mind paying for quality, but some of the cables are ridiculous in price. I thought this was a fair price for the features.  Wow, early and we are on the same page (?).


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> That is the way I feel as well. I don't mind paying for quality, but some of the cables are ridiculous in price. I thought this was a fair price for the features.  Wow, early and we are on the same page (?).


 

 Perhaps because I don't do my best thinking early in the morning


----------



## DavidA

I just finished cleaning up from dinner, LOL


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > I was told about these power cables and thought I would share, I bought one and they seem to be of good quality.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069FLXLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


 
  
 You probably won't find that model very useful in Ukraine.
  

_source: http://wikitravel.org/en/File:800px-Map_of_the_world_coloured_by_type_of_plug_used.png_


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 A friend of mine recently visited Russia and I loaned him a little adapter (less than $1) to use there - worked just fine.
  
 People on this thread should be used to adapters lol!


----------



## pctazhp

I'm taking my own vodka-powered power plant with me. I will also take 220V adapters with me to use after I get out of jail. But CF's recommended power cord is rated for 125V so I guess I'll pass. Or I guess I'll also take my step-down transformer. Oh heck. I'll find the right power cord to use without CF's help. He has a strange sense of humor and I'm sure would love to see me burn down an entire block in my new home city. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit:  Open mouth, think later. Just to clarify, I have a 220V Euforia ordered for delivery in Ukraine after I get there. So until we start getting into serious power cord rolling for Euforia I'm sure FA's will suffice.
  
 I plan to take my 115V Bimby with me, and assume my step-down transformer should be fine for that.
  
 Now back to deciding whether I will take the Sedona Crystals that hang over my head for increased "air" and "clarity" with me or take a vacation to some Russian salt mines to see if I can discover something better.


----------



## mordy

Will they fit on plane?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> A friend of mine recently visited Russia and I loaned him a little adapter (less than $1) to use there - worked just fine.
> 
> People on this thread should be used to adapters lol!




Yep. I once bought this in Montreal because I needed it. I can't remember the price, though. Expensive it wasn't.  I'd only use these for light temporary duty.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I'm taking my own vodka-powered power plant with me. I will also take 220V adapters with me to use after I get out of jail. But CF's recommended power cord is rated for 125V so I guess I'll pass. Or I guess I'll also take my step-down transformer. Oh heck. I'll find the right power cord to use without CF's help. He has a strange sense of humor and I'm sure would love to see me burn down an entire block in my new home city. :basshead:
> 
> Edit:  Open mouth, think later. Just to clarify, I have a 220V Euforia ordered for delivery in Ukraine after I get there. So until we start getting into serious power cord rolling for Euforia I'm sure FA's will suffice.
> 
> I plan to take my 115V Bimby with me, and assume my step-down transformer should be fine for that.




Yes, for most things voltage matters, sometimes even frequency matters.


_source: http://wikitravel.org/en/File:800px-Map_of_the_world_coloured_by_voltage_and_frequency.png_


----------



## connieflyer

A performer that has caught my eye lately, perhaps you will give her a whirl


----------



## mordy

*Why 120V vs 220V?*
  
Vinay Kumar K, Electrical Engineer
Written 26 Jan 2015

   This answer is totally tiny bit of information I have which is rounded up by my reasoning.
 Some of the American Countries like USA, Canada has voltage rating of 110/120V 60 Hz, where as Countries in Europe and Asia uses 220 V 50 Hz domestic supply.
     Reason : The DC and AC Power network was first built and developed in America(USA) and it widened to other parts with their own customisation. The DC Power system was first invented by Edison and it worked really well with his incandescent bulbs lighting up cities. When Westinghouse started up AC power distribution it irked Edison and started a war between the power system companies. They took to the streets especially Edison criticizing the AC power on the issues related to safety. He started Electrocuting Animals from AC so to change the perception of the people on the highly advantageous AC.
 But when Tesla came up with the Highly efficient Poly phase induction machines the war was won by AC distributors and it suddenly assumed popularity all across the world.
  Hence, during the starting stage, the AC system developers were very cautious on safety aspect due to the bitter war between AC and DC resulting in reducing the AC voltage as minimum as possible to 110 V  for the Power supply in USA, striking between the increased voltages to reduce Electrical losses and decreasing the same to increase safety levels.
    System operating at 230 V incur lesser loses as compared to the 110 V system if the network elements are same. But as America was wealthy and innovating it optimising the power networks it didn't bother much on the Losses of distribution. But Europeans who developed their own AC systems on 230V and it used it in its colonies in Asia thereby spreading the 230 V use.


----------



## DecentLevi

@svmusa (Mr. Suba) I'm posting this on the community thread because as a group you can get a much better response than by PM. As a group, you can get a faster and more varied responses, and a nice sense of community. So don't be shy to post here.
  
 First, congratulations on the Euforia acquisition. Which Paypal invoice # did you receive? Curious how many others have ordered too.
  
 So I see you were wanting a good pre-amp for your speaker rig, and ultimately chose the Euforia over the Elise or Darkvoice 336, from reading about it on the Elise thread... at least you managed to find some on-topic posts there, but at least this thread has been improving on that regard lately, LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And you're planning to use it as a preamp for your SMSL M8 Dac and Monoprice 11497 300 Watts 2 Channel Amplifier driving a pair of BIC AMERICA RTR-EV15 15-Inch Floor Speaker, with only occasional headphone use. You also said you have a Polk Monitor 60 from last 8 or 9 years.
  
 My knowledge of speakers is limited, but Mordy had already mentioned he's getting excellent results with the Elise as a pre-amp for his speaker system, and I have been using mine as a pre-amp to my electrostatic headphone system, and have noticed unwavering improvements such as soundstage, warmth, realism, etc. which I have confirmed with multiple A/B tests with/without the Elise as a pre-amp.
  
 Largely however I have been using the Elise as a standard headphone amp. I would venture to say however that theoretically there must be a finite limit to how much improvement a pre-amp can make feeding another amp, and that a fine headphone amp such as the Euforia would make larger improvements as a headphone amp. So I would highly suggest you to not skimp on trying all your headphones once you have the Euforia. And I would be interested in seeing how much of a difference, if any the Euforia makes as a pre-amp compared to the Elise. Something I may try after receiving mine.
  
 You've also asked for advice on tubes. I would suggest getting a pair of RCA 6080's as powers (rear tubes) which are affordable and formidable for the price with your choice of 6SN7's for starters, or spring for the Chatham or Tung Sol 5998 which are virtually identical, and give amazing realism / soundstage / dynamics. We had also recommended the so-called EL13 setup (dual EL11 + dual EL12). These require an EL11 to 6SN7 adapter, and are vanishing quickly, and some types are giving world-class sound that rivals even the universally acclaimed best tubes. So get some while you can, and if you want links to specific recommended types we can give those by PM - otherwise please post on this thread.
  
 ... Welcome to introduce yourself and ask any questions here.


----------



## connieflyer

From Parallel Dreams


----------



## svmusa

Thx Decentlevi and Mordy, I did place the order yesterday and got an reply back from Lukasz. I paid directly from paypal and did not receive any invoice yet. He did indicate early April shipping.
  
 My usgae is primarily stereo listening and figured my itching for a good tube preamp will suffice for a while with Euforia. My speakers and power amp are a modest setup, hoping to venture into pure tube amps eventually to drive the speakers and bypass the solid state power amp, the speakers have sensitivity of 95dB @ 2.83V/1 watt so hopefully decent powered tube amp can drive them.
  
 I love bass impact and do have a pair of Kenrad VT231 staggered plate clear glass tubes to start with and the supplied PsVane will be interesting comparison.
  
 I do have to invest in few good pair of power tubes for some variation in sound. hoping that can add more bass slam (controlled) with Kenrads and others than can keep it leveled.


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## pctazhp

I fully admit there has been a lot of "filler" (to use a charitable term) on this thread. But as of right now H1 is the only one who has a Euforia in his possession. As far as I'm concerned, he is the only one at this point who is qualified to recommend tubes for Euforia.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

It was actually a matter of long distance transmission. Tesla worked for Edison in the early days of electrification, and tried to convince Edison that AC was far better for long distance transmission of power from the generation source. Edison made Tesla a large personal bet that DC would win the long distance transmission competition.

Tesla was able to show that AC was vastly superior for long distance transmission and asked Edison to pay the wager. Edison refused, and Tesla jumped ship and went to Westinghouse who knew Tesla had the right idea for long distance transmission with AC.

Your right about Edison and electrocuting animals to convince the public to want DC...but Tesla also went on tour for Westinghouse, at the same time, and did his magnificent hair raising displays with Tesla coils...the public had way more fun with that, than they did watching animals be electrocuted.








Tesla went on to get fired when he talked Westinghouse into building his "wireless-transmission tower" on Long Island which he promised would transmit AC power WIRELESSLY, through the air!!!

Westinghouse built the Tower, and it worked. Then Westinghouse realized that Tesla DID NOT PLAN ON HAVING METERS at each "receiving station" (your house, my house and everybody's house). They fired him for this oversight and immediately tore down the Tower!!!!



As a side note...as I mentioned many many moons ago, the voltage Elise/Euforia uses at the plates is very close to the 240v standard in some parts of the world and therefore the 240v Elise/Euforia works much less hard to generate such voltage and therefore generates much less heat than the equiv 120 volt appliance. in the case of the Tube Amp of the Elise/Euforia design...240 volts is vastly superior....



Cheers!!!







mordy said:


> *Why 120V vs 220V?*
> 
> Vinay Kumar K, Electrical Engineer
> 
> ...


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## connieflyer

Although the Elise and Euforia are of similar design and concept, I will have to second @pctazhp comments on the fact that until more amps are released and the confirmed tube use is written, @hypnos1 having the only working amp in the field and in testing, should be the only one to recommend tubes for the Euforia amp. To many times, on this thread and others, tubes will be recommend outside the "accepted tubes" and could spell problems. A few individuals have recommended tubes that were an unsafe combination because the did not check and double check the amperage totals for the safe operation of the amp. Anyone can call themselves an expert in this, by buying and trying a lot of tubes, without the proper precautions to know what in fact is required by the amp and what the safe parameters of the amp are. It is easy to want to show everyone what you have done and figured if it did not burn up it must be safe, if it fits is should be fine. You have to go slow, if you want to protect your amp and reputation.  There are several very experienced members here, but there are also a few that work a little to far outside the box.  I know, it's your amp, you bought it, you can do as you please, but doing so also damages the reputation of Feliks-Audio if it looks like a lot of failures of equipment, when in fact it is going outside the manufacturers specifications. We all want the best the amp will provide, but it has to be orderly and done correctly.  Listening to 10 different tubes in 24 hours does not make an accurate portrayal of the performance of the tubes in test.  It takes many hours to correct asses the character of sound in combination with the many tube combinations. Please be careful what you recommend, there are ways to get the information desired by checking in with the manufacturer and H1.


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## pctazhp

CF:  Totally agree. I guess I would just add that at this point I believe H1 is the only one qualified to opine on the sonic signature of any given tube used in the Euforia, and of course only if he has properly auditioned the particular tube in question - which of course he is always very careful about.


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## connieflyer

I defer to your ultimate wisdom and guidance oh great one!


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## DecentLevi

While I agree with recommending only officially compatible tubes for the Euforia and especially those that have been tested to have good system synergy, I'm willing to 'bet' that the Tung-Sol or Chatham 5998 and RCA 6080 will be excellent performers as power tubes on the Euforia. If I understood correctly, H1 had seemed to indicate earlier that the sonic qualities of a tube remain largely the same from the Elise, and the Euforia just shows more of its' true character. Both amps use the same tube compliment, and below is a screenshot of the official Elise manual which does include the above tube classes as being compatible.
  

  
 I certainly won't recommend any unofficial tubes that weren't recommended even after owning the Euforia unless they've been thoroughly tested; hopefully by at least more than one person - however do note that _too much_ caution can quell progress. Thankfully we were able to think outside of the box enough to discover these 'EL' alternatives and for both H1 and F.A. to come up with the design for these amps in the first place though.


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## connieflyer

Like I said, let's wait till the amp's come out, this is not a betting forum, it is not a christmas tree forum nor one where not adding amperage of tubes correctly before posting findings is considered a desirable posting


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Fascinating to read about Tesla. Tried to find more information but could not verify that the Long Island tower for wireless transmission of electricity worked. Do you have a source?
  
 This article from the Smithsonian explains about the bet with Edison:
  
 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-rise-and-fall-of-nikola-tesla-and-his-tower-11074324/


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Like I said, let's wait till the amp's come out, this is not a betting forum, it is not a christmas tree forum nor one where not adding amperage of tubes correctly before posting findings is considered a desirable posting


 
 I was trying to find a "NO EXPERTS ALLOWED" sign on Google to discourage claims of expertise on this thread. But I couldn't find one. However, I did find a picture of this very pretty lady. So please consider her my "NO EXPERTS ALLOWED" sign


----------



## JazzVinyl

Hello Mordy...

Tesla did show it working on small scales but proposed worldwide transmission of power, but funding ran out on the Long Island tower before completing the project....is what your link below says. 

He did expiriments here, and there are still abandoned buildings above Manitous Springs where be "broadcast" power...it is said lightning bolts were seen emanating from fire hydrants downtown...miles away from his mountainside power transmitting station.

He certainly had it working well enough, to attract investors....

These days, it seems to me, DC and local solar generation and battery storage, is the way to go. At least in the SW where there is sunshine aplenty. 

Cheers....and keep the Sparks down 





mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Fascinating to read about Tesla. Tried to find more information but could not verify that the Long Island tower for wireless transmission of electricity worked. Do you have a source?
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

svmusa said:


> Thx Decentlevi and Mordy, I did place the order yesterday and got an reply back from Lukasz. I paid directly from paypal and did not receive any invoice yet. He did indicate early April shipping.
> 
> My usgae is primarily stereo listening and figured my itching for a good tube preamp will suffice for a while with Euforia. My speakers and power amp are a modest setup, hoping to venture into pure tube amps eventually to drive the speakers and bypass the solid state power amp, the speakers have sensitivity of 95dB @ 2.83V/1 watt so hopefully decent powered tube amp can drive them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome svmusa. Lukasz would usually create an invoice for you and in it you can pay through paypal. That's how I pay for Euforia.
  
 I've used Elise as a preamp a couple of time with my speakers system but it's as a headphone amp that I get the most satisfaction. I just love what I'm hearing from Beyer T1 and Senns HD650, the latter has been modified for a brighter tone and tighter bass.


----------



## hypnos1

svmusa said:


> Thx Decentlevi and Mordy, I did place the order yesterday and got an reply back from Lukasz. I paid directly from paypal and did not receive any invoice yet. He did indicate early April shipping.
> 
> My usgae is primarily stereo listening and figured my itching for a good tube preamp will suffice for a while with Euforia. My speakers and power amp are a modest setup, hoping to venture into pure tube amps eventually to drive the speakers and bypass the solid state power amp, the speakers have sensitivity of 95dB @ 2.83V/1 watt so hopefully decent powered tube amp can drive them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi svmusa. Congrats on choosing the Euforia...an amp that I hope you find lives up to the wording I used when starting this thread!...(I chose my words VERY carefully lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And welcome to a thread I'm sure will become as friendly and helpful...and _*fun!*_...as the Elise threads have been before it. (And regarding the last aspect, I feel I must step in here in defence of senior, well-respected and experienced members, from the less-than-charitable implications made by a certain other member recently. In the absence of Euforia owners other than myself, they (especially @connieflyer, @UntilThen and @pctazhp) have injected a good deal of _*fun *_here, whilst awaiting their own amps. _*Private*_ 'disagreement' is fine..._*Public*_ (even if only implied) is _*not*_...and is most certainly not in the spirit of how I hope this thread will continue. There are long-term, well-established members here from the Elise threads who deserve FAR greater respect!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Rant over...now onto tubes et al....
  
 You already have some well-respected ones in the KR VT231, and your comparison with the supplied PsVanes will indeed be very interesting...especially as I haven't had the opportunity to do so myself. As for powers - in 'stock' config'n -  I personally have only tried the Chatham 6AS7G and GEC/Osram variations (CV2523/A1834).
  
 The Chathams are extremely good tubes, and Euforia's greater dynamic presentation than Elise helps to breathe a bit more depth and excitement into them. The hyper-expensive GEC family of 6AS7Gs obviously take everything to another level...but at a price beyond most folks' pockets/value-for-money stance!!
  
 Euforia will indeed help any particular tube perform to its best (as well as other elements in the sound chain), but things are not quite as simple as that, of course!... in addition, its greater dynamism and powerful delivery will impact upon different tubes in ways that may not at first be obvious/expected. And so, therefore, I strongly recommend you hold off any further decisions on tubes until others have given* full and proper* assessment when they receive their own amps. And by far your best source of guidance will be member @UntilThen, as he has conducted more than anyone the most comprehensive, accurate/'measured', reliable and *realistic *trials, using a wide variety of driver/power combinations in his Elise....He, like myself, does not go in for excessively OTT, hard-to-take-seriously 'reviews' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I think I've covered enough just for the moment...I shall give you up-to-date info later, on the non-stock tubes that I first trialled with Elise...the latest ones being the EL3N and EL11 drivers, and EL12 powers (that @HOWIE13 bravely dove into first!).
  
 But also, I must state the obvious...ie. that your system is unique to you, of course, and so other folks' experience may not tally with your own! But hopefully as more amps arrive in ever-eager hands, at least _some_ helpful pointers will emerge as a _guide_ to others, at least.
  
 I wish your own amp a safe and speedy journey...as I do for everyone else's - it has been mighty lonely here for a good while!...apart from the support of good friends - even if sometimes restricted to "_*fun*_" lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## svmusa

Thx everyone for warm welcome, looks like it's going to be fun once few of us get the amp in hand.

I will surely keep my contributions to the thread both as preamp and headphones as well. I have JVC DX 1000 and Sennheiser HD 380. Got Taction Kannons on order as part of the first batch hopefully some time this year.

I will stick to the 6AS7/6SN7 combo, 6AS7 is new to me so have to investigate some good source and tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

*6SN7 / 6AS7 (6080) *
  
 I'm going to focus on these for now. Those who choose this path will know that it's a path well travelled. Elise and Euforia were crafted and tuned specifically to use these tubes. It's no surprise that all these tubes sound excellent on those amps (ok, I don't know for sure it will be the same in Euforia and that will have to wait), regardless of their price. However as with everything in this world, some are better than others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll broadly categorise them with a brief comment against each. It's important to mix and match drivers with power tubes to get the tone you're after. Before I go any further, I would ask that you take time to find out what your tone preference is. For me, I start off in the early days, loving a warm and lush tone. However I've gradually shifted my preference to a more clinical, more revealing tone with an emphasis on clarity and details. Over time, you will discover for yourself, what your preference is. Remember there is no right or wrong. It is a preference. You are entitled to one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

*Premium* GEC 6AS7GVery smooth. Mildly warm and lush. This is based on my time spent with it on a Woo Audio Wa2, Held in very high regards by many.GEC 6080No comment. I've not heard this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Bendix 6080wbBest of the 6080 no doubt. More clinical than 6AS7 but the Bendix has a very nice weight to the tone. Bass is more than ample and soundstage is one of the best.Tung Sol 5998Regarded by many as the benchmark of the premium power tubes, 5998 sizzles from top to bottom with energy. In keeping with the coke bottle shape, it has more air and layers than 6080 and is more full bodied.Tung Sol 7236I call this the slimmer version of 5998. Tone is leaner but with the same incredible details. Bass is tight and forceful.  *Good* Chatham 6AS7GBreezy and airy. It has a lighter tone than RCA 6AS7G. I find this a very pleasant sounding tube.Mullard 6080Bright and clear while retaining luscious mids and solid bass. Definitely leaner tone compared to 6AS7.  *Budget* RCA 6AS7GFull bodied with a warm and lush tone. Bass is fat and solid.RCA 6080A slimmer version of the RCA 6AS7G. It's tighter and has an impactful bass. I much prefer this over the RCA 6AS7G.Svetlana 6H13CCheap but not necessary bad. I did enjoy this power tube with a brighter driver. Warm and lush.GE 6AS7GAWarm and lush. Sounds grainier compared to the better power tubes but at $10 a tube, it's hard to complain.
  
  
 I am going to be very brief with 6SN7 because you'll get far more materials from the 6SN7 reference thread.
  
 At the top of the range are the Tung Sol 6SN7gt black round plates and Sylvania 6SN7W.
  
 Next in line, I'd recommend National Union, Ken Rad, Sylvania, Raytheon and RCA 6SN7gt VT231. They all have their own sound signatures. Refer to 6SN7 reference thread.
  
 At the budget end, I suggest looking at Sylvania 6SN7gtb, Tung Sol 6SN7gt mouse ears.
  
  
 PS... @hypnos1 has been very generous with his words but I'm just an enthusiast. I certainly won't claim to be an expert. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The comments above are made based on how I hear them. You might have a different experience.


----------



## connieflyer

Well done UT, I like the chart layout very easy to see the category and the comparisons from top to bottom, appreciate it


----------



## hypnos1

svmusa said:


> Thx everyone for warm welcome, looks like it's going to be fun once few of us get the amp in hand.
> 
> I will surely keep my contributions to the thread both as preamp and headphones as well. I have JVC DX 1000 and Sennheiser HD 380. Got Taction Kannons on order as part of the first batch hopefully some time this year.
> 
> I will stick to the 6AS7/6SN7 combo, 6AS7 is new to me so have to investigate some good source and tubes.


 
  
 Hi again, sv...always good to have feedback on both preamp and headphones. Ashamed to say I haven't yet tried my Euforia as preamp...been rather busy adapting and trying new tubes lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 But I expect great things, given the marvellous job Elise did (does!!) in this role.
  
 Nothing wrong with sticking to 6SN7/6AS7G (or 6080) combo...after all that's what the amp's configured for! And there's such a variety of tubes to choose from - which was the whole reasoning behind my initial approach to Feliks-Audio re. an amp based on them...ie. Elise, and which should therefore provide for all tastes. Euforia is proving (to me, at least!) to be just as flexible/versatile...and probably even more so, as regards maximising different tubes' (and their combination's) potential. (And who knows, further down the road you just _might_ be tempted to go "off piste"...but it isn't mandatory LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - get to know, and enjoy, your new amp a good while first, and let others' experiences be a guide.
  
 Thanks go to @UntilThen for posting his good work, and although he claims not to be an expert, his trials and findings are eminently reliable and accurate for pretty well most setups out there...allowing for individual variations/preferences, of course. And it will indeed be interesting to see if Euforia does in fact bring out tube qualities extra to what are delivered in Elise, not only by UT himself, but a good collection of other experienced guys...interesting and exciting times ahead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## connieflyer

@svmusa welcome to the thread, H1 has already shortened you too SV, so I will continue in that vein. SV I hope your time here is Pleasant and very informative. We have a few dedicated members here that have amassed quite a bit of information on the use of both the Elise amp and now with H1 and the Euforia. The new amps should be shipping very soon and there will be more amps and information coming out as well. If you have any questions at all, please don't hesitate to ask, especially from UT, and H1. I see you are using the Sennheiser HD 380, I had a pair of those a while back and found them to be very similar to the hd650. I like the phone quite a bit, should work well with the new amp. Good luck and if there any questions arise, please do not hesitate to ask. You may have noticed that myself and PCT pick on each other quite a bit, but it is all in good fun. We are good friends, and especially since there's only one new amp out there we tend to take advantage of the situation. If you find you have favorite music videos you want to share please do, I have found more music that way with the varied tastes from all over the world. It's a great way to learn, good luck


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Thanks for your easy to read and use chart. Since I have the GEC 6AS7G I would like to add that it has a tremendous energy.
  
 Too early to add the EL11/12 to the chart or are you just sticking to octal base tubes?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Thanks for your easy to read and use chart. Since I have the GEC 6AS7G I would like to add that it has a tremendous energy.
> 
> Too early to add the EL11/12 to the chart or are you just sticking to octal base tubes?


 
  
 Thanks Mordy. I'll get a chance to sample the GEC 6AS7G again at the coming meet on the 25th March. If it's not too much of a problem for the owner, I might even 'borrow' it to try on Euforia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm keeping that evaluation to Feliks Audio recommended tubes for both drivers and powers. Perhaps might do one later for all the other 'unofficial' tubes. There are enough of them to start another chart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I could possibly merge them and try to rank the unofficial and recommended tubes together but I think I might unnecessarily influence new comers on their choice of tubes. In my opinion, the 6SN7 / 6AS7 (6080) family of tubes are still spectacular. They are a great foundation to any OTL amps.


----------



## svmusa

I have the following stash of tubes, some on way and others I have collected over the years.
Kenrad vt231, clear and black glass
6SN7GT tungsol tall bottle and brown base
6SN7GT Sylvania top getter brown base
6SN7WGT Sylvania

7236 united electronic which perhaps is rebranded.
6520 Westinghouse
6080 Mullard, RCA, Sylvania
6AS7G RCA

6F8G RCA.

Need the Euforia and quite a few to start rolling.

Feel free to point me to sources for some of the 6AS7 listed by you all, they are hard and too spendy.


----------



## mordy

Hi svmusa,
  
 As far as I know the 7236 was only made by Tung Sol and Sylvania, with the TS considered the better one. The United tube you have is most likely re-branded - you would have to compare it to pictures of the other two to know which brand it is. Possibly it is a TS.
  
 The 6520 was only made by Tung Sol as far as I know, so your Westinghouse is in all likelihood a Tung Sol.
  
 As said before, just start with the stock tubes, and as you get used to your amp and the sound, you will figure out which tube combinations work best for you.


----------



## UntilThen

svmusa said:


> I have the following stash of tubes, some on way and others I have collected over the years.
> Kenrad vt231, clear and black glass
> 6SN7GT tungsol tall bottle and brown base
> 6SN7GT Sylvania top getter brown base
> ...


 
  
 I'm assuming your 7236 and 6520 are Tung Sol rebrands. Mordy has pointed that out. I have a pair of Chatham 6520. Chatham was bought over by Tung Sol who in turn was bought over by Cetron.
  
 If you're looking for Bendix 6080wb and Tung Sol 5998, just keep a lookout on ebay but they are expensive now.
  
 You should just sit back and enjoy Euforia with those tubes. It's a pretty good collection as it is.


----------



## connieflyer

Kind of quiet this morning, I guess it is true, a day without PCT is like a day without sunshine!


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Kind of quiet this morning, I guess it is true, a day without PCT is like a day without sunshine!


 

 The earth continues to rotate and the sun still shines bright:


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> The earth continues to rotate and the sun still shines bright:




  
 Must be shining _*really*_ bright for you just now, pct...back in the bosom of your family lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and will also be shining brightly for a good few folks _*very soon*_ now...(think I'm even _more_ excited than you lucky guys!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







..."Blow the winds Southerly"...(_and_ Westerly...and Easterly?!!!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and _safely_, of course...


----------



## connieflyer

H1, what did you say about bosom? Got my attention now!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> H1, what did you say about bosom? Got my attention now!


 
  
 Methinks the sooner you get your new amp the better, my good friend!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Me thinks I agree!


----------



## connieflyer

Has anyone else heard from Lucasz about their amp shipping?


----------



## pctazhp

I'm keeping my distance from any discussion of body parts, and feel like I'm in the dark ages of understanding EL11 and EL12 tubes. Haven't had much time lately for anything headphone related, so my mind at the moment is mush when it comes to tubes.
  
 But it seems to me several advanced degrees may be needed to stay on top of EL11/12s. Some seem to work, some don't and some work partially. Branding seems to mean nothing, and plates vary considerably from oval to round to mesh to flax-seed based. I've officially given up. My TFK EL11 (made by someone I can't member) and Siemens EL12-ST (probably made by the predecessor to the Gerber Baby Food Company) sound the best to me of all the tubes I own (which someday I'll get around to cataloging if for no other reason than - well actually I can't think of any good reason to do that). EL12n comes in a close second for power tubes.
  
 That's the sum total of anything I can contribute right now.


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## connieflyer

Don't feel bad I'm not even sure I remember what a tube looks like, well I do have tubes I don't remember what they look like that was a lie. Thing is I don't have anything to put them in that little cardboard amp that I made already threw that out in order to warm it up I had to put a little flame underneath it didn't look too good. LOL. UT was number 97 my amp is number 99 so who has number 98 and did he hear anything yet?


----------



## pctazhp

I'm guessing it shouldn't be too much longer CF. When you do get your Euforia you'll be glad at that point you don't have to worry about selling your Elise.
  
 Looks like you and I are the only ones here. The rest of my family is asleep still trying to adjust to a change of 9 time zones. So I'll take the liberty to post one of my favorite songs. I had earlier posted the Willie and Ray video. This one I think is equally great:


----------



## connieflyer

Alison is one of my favorite performers. Did you know that she and I almost got married?  We were getting ready to tie the knot but she decided I had to leave Sue and I could not have both, so I decided I would just stay the course! Yeah Right!


----------



## connieflyer

Another of my favorite singers


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Alison is one of my favorite performers. Did you know that she and I almost got married?  We were getting ready to tie the knot but she decided I had to leave Sue and I could not have both, so I decided I would just stay the course! Yeah Right!


 

 Alison will never know what she missed, which would include among other things a cardboard amp.


----------



## connieflyer

YOU have to admit, with the way I had it lit, you had to look twice to see it was cardboard!  Not bad for an hours worth of work, I know I should have been doing something else. Had a crush on Lorrie Morgan, another one that did not pan out


----------



## Oskari

Lol at you guys. :rolleyes:


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## connieflyer

PCT we have a critic now!  Well join in have fun and oh yes wait for music to flow


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## aqsw

Deleted


----------



## pctazhp

I actually appreciate the skill involved in building that amp more than you think. I couldn't have pulled it off.
  
 Lorrie is so great. Like some of the YouTube comments said, she is true country. Not to mention beautiful lady with beautiful voice. And I really love the song Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow, which you probably remember was originally recorded by The Shirelles.
  
 I post his probably over a year ago, but Suzy Boggus is another of my favorite country singers.


----------



## connieflyer

As you wish


----------



## pctazhp

CF:  This is a personal question. I need your help. I realize my mental faculties are about 5% of what they were at my prime, and considering that even then I was running with several bulbs short, that is near brain dead. But just help me out, so I'm not confused all night. Did you just post the same video twice?????


----------



## connieflyer

Don't understand that one. Only once, oh well she deserves to be heard twice. I wonder if I can delete one. That is weird .


----------



## connieflyer

That song I posted first was supposed to be Kris Kristofferson and Lorrie singing a duet. When I went into the full page editor, it showed the correct song but then went back, so oh well. This is the one I posted.


----------



## connieflyer

Well time to grab a small shot or two or three of Glenfidich or what ever it is I have back there. Think I need it tonight. Glad the girls are home and you completed your honey dew list!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well time to grab a small shot or two or three of Glenfidich or what ever it is I have back there. Think I need it tonight. Glad the girls are home and you completed your honey dew list!


 

 Thanks CF. Have a good evening. I'm out of here for the night ))))


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Well time to grab a small shot or two or three of Glenfidich or what ever it is I have back there. Think I need it tonight.




It's 4 a.m. and I've had about a gallon of beer. So:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsXUIoY0bo4[/VIDEO]


----------



## svmusa

Curious if Euforia is capable to drive power hungry headphones such as planars and your thoughts?


----------



## UntilThen

svmusa said:


> Curious if Euforia is capable to drive power hungry headphones such as planars and your thoughts?


 
  
 I don't see why not. Elise could with my HE560. I was using all EL3N or C3g with 5998 though and HE560 sounded lovely with it. I did have to increase my volume to 11 or 12 though, instead of the usual 9 to 10.


----------



## hypnos1

svmusa said:


> Curious if Euforia is capable to drive power hungry headphones such as planars and your thoughts?


 
  
 Hi sv...as UT says, he was very happy with how his particular planars sounded in Elise, and given F-A say that Euforia has 10 to 20% more power output, I should imagine it will drive them even better lol!...(and I think that may well have been before the upgraded transformer decision, so things are looking very hopeful indeed for cans other than the 'ideal' high-impedance dynamics. F-A did from the off do everything possible to perform better with low-z cans than is usually the case with OTL amps...).


----------



## connieflyer

Here is my contribution for today 

  
  
 and who better to listen to


----------



## connieflyer

Okay time to wake up


----------



## UntilThen

It's 27th Feb and Lukasz has still not send out my Euforia. I think they are putting the finishing gold plating touches. I'm taking Euforia to the Sydney meet. 
  
 The proprietor of minidisc will be attending and will bring along Focal Utopia and Elear for demonstration. Looking forward to try them with Euforia.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/832710/can-con-sydney-australia-7-0/45#post_13297301


----------



## connieflyer

That is probably what they are doing. Mine will take longer because they are making a special presentation case for me out of cardboard!  This it the kind of packaging I am hoping they will send my amp in!


----------



## pctazhp

How much do you get paid every time I listen to one of your Lorrie Morgan posts????
  
 And how about this one??? The best of EVERYTHING


----------



## connieflyer

Nice, that is the first time I have seen this, thank you Obie One!  I donate all the money to the free my amp group! Sorry for the delay in posting, was not sure I would be wasting your time or not, besides I had to watch the video!


----------



## connieflyer

This one is for UT so you can not watch it


----------



## connieflyer

And this one, for Sue


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, not to leave anyone out, this one is for our fearless leader, H,
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5I2w2NeJo&list=RDvvrUdAKxqDU&index=2


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> *It's 27th Feb and Lukasz has still not send out my Euforia*. I think they are putting the finishing gold plating touches. I'm taking Euforia to the Sydney meet.
> 
> The proprietor of minidisc will be attending and will bring along Focal Utopia and Elear for demonstration. Looking forward to try them with Euforia.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/832710/can-con-sydney-australia-7-0/45#post_13297301


 
  
 Ooops...could be something to do with your address record being somewhere in Suffolk, UK perhaps?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...well, I thought you were going for that McIntosh LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...never mind...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 But then, you've got to show her off at Sydney...suppose I'd better give Lukasz another buzz!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. Let's hope you have plenty of time to burn her in properly...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  


connieflyer said:


> Okay, not to leave anyone out, this one is for our fearless leader, H,
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5I2w2NeJo&list=RDvvrUdAKxqDU&index=2


 
  
 Well, cf, much more my cup of tea than your "wake up" call lol!!...thanks....(but not in the same league as LM...in _*my*_ book, anyway!! - which I have to admit _is_ rather conservative! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Ooops...could be something to do with your address record being somewhere in Suffolk, UK perhaps?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Time is running out. I hope Lukasz did some burn in for me. Euforia needs to be at it's best. There are Focals and Sennheiser representatives there.


----------



## connieflyer

But you are awake now, so it worked.  LM is the best of course!


----------



## connieflyer

Ut did you opt for express shipping? Just wondered, how long it would take for regular mail.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Ut did you opt for express shipping? Just wondered, how long it would take for regular mail.


 
  
 Express? Elise came by EMS and it took slightly more than a week. That's good enough considering the distance it has to travel to get downunder.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Time is running out. I hope Lukasz did some burn in for me. Euforia needs to be at it's best. There are Focals and Sennheiser representatives there.


 
  
 Ah yes...forgot about those Focals..._*please*_ don't tell us they sound 3,000 times better than the T1s lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And just over a week delivery DownUnder?...amazing!...fingers crossed for Euforia, then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


connieflyer said:


> But you are awake now, so it worked.  LM is the best of course!


 
  
 Awake, cf?...not too sure about that - gonna have to stop these late night rendezvous with dear Loreena LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and so too will you, mon ami, once you hear her through your new amp!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## connieflyer

Some thing to stir your imagination


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Some thing to stir your imagination





 Re the Gate, Wikipedia says:
  
 "Stasov's comment: "Hartmann's sketch was his design for city gates at Kiev in the ancient Russian massive style with a cupola shaped like a slavonic helmet."
Bogatyrs are heroes that appear in Russian epics called bylinas. The title of this movement is commonly translated as "The Great Gate of Kiev" and sometimes as "The Heroes' Gate at Kiev".
 Hartmann designed a monumental gate for Tsar Alexander II to commemorate the monarch's narrow escape from an assassination attempt on April 4, 1866. Hartmann regarded his design as the best work he had done. His design won the national competition but plans to build the structure were later cancelled."


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks @connieflyer and @pctazhp for mentioning yet another wonderful showpiece for Euforia..._*dynamic*_ hardly covers it lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...in fact the entire "Pictures" work must provide enough material for sound assessment to beat any Pop etc. etc. music lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...assuming a top notch recording, of course!!!
  
 And on the topic of _dynamic_ presentation, I have to admit that with certain tube combinations in Euforia- particularly our later discoveries - I was beginning to wonder if perhaps the new amp might just be a _teeny weeny_ bit OTT in these stakes...especially after the gloriously refined sound with GEC/Osram powers in Elise.... _*HOWEVER*_...the more my ears and brain 'adjust' to the powerful presentation of this amp/EL11 &12 combination, the less I pine for those 'Golden Oldie' Elise days. I am now, in fact, _*totally addicted*_ to the "Wall of Sound" that the Beyer T1s were obviously born for LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....but not, thankfully, at the expense of delicacy and exquisite refinement when called for. If such cans as the ridiculously priced Focal Utopias can surpass this sound by a good margin, then they would indeed be pulling off the biggest miracle imaginable, and just _possibly_ warrant that heart-stopping price!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._perhaps!!!_...
  
 Anyway, this all just helps me to realise the importance of _*allowing*_ ourselves *proper* time to 'adjust' to new/different sound presentations, before making any kind of judgment whatsoever...I myself could never go back to what I previously (almost!) worshipped, now that Euforia has introduced me to a different world - especially when combined with the sorts of tubes I mentioned lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(and of course there are tubes within the stock configuration 6SN7/6AS7G/6080 families that are also up there in the dynamics stakes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 So hopefully, guys, this gives another taster of what's in store for you..._*very soon!!!!*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CJ


----------



## mordy

Here is a modern rendition of a 1920's piece with both excellent musicianship and sound:


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you Mordy, in the same vein I would like to add another stomp, King Porter Stomp


----------



## connieflyer

Another great recording of Lincoln Mayorga is Limehouse Blues, if you ever get the chance to listen to his direct to disk recordings on vinyl you will be amazed at the resolution, @UntilThen can attest to that.  Almazing clarity.


----------



## connieflyer

One last one


----------



## connieflyer

Okay I lied this is the last one. It shows Lincoln in his later years, hailed by many as THE definitive Gershwin pianist.


----------



## pctazhp

Beautiful Sunday!!! Can I get an AMEN????
  

  
 Oh sorry. I guess this isn't Facebook. In fact, I guess this isn't even Sunday.
  
 Oh well. Back to sleep for me.


----------



## connieflyer

By your comment on Sunday, I think you need lots more sleep!


----------



## pctazhp

Did I hear that someone is still asleep?????


----------



## connieflyer

More like this, an all time favorite.  I hit the high notes like this only once, when my foot slipped off the pedal on my bike and I hit the cross bar, hurt real bad, but voice went real high!


----------



## connieflyer

And I leave H with this one to make up for all the noise


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> More like this, an all time favorite.  I hit the high notes like this only once, when my foot slipped off the pedal on my bike and I hit the cross bar, hurt real bad, but voice went real high!





 May be the single most beautiful music ever written.


----------



## connieflyer

Are we talking about nessum Dorma or are we talking about the noise I made when my Jewels hit the crossbar?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Are we talking about nessum Dorma or are we talking about the noise I made when my Jewels hit the crossbar?


 

 If it is all the same to you, I try not to think about your Jewels


----------



## connieflyer

Let me just say it was a memorable occasion.


----------



## tjw321

I used to cycle up a steep hill on the way to work. I used to stand on the pedals to get a bit more leverage to get up the hill. Then one day my chain snapped. I no longer ever stand on the pedals...


----------



## connieflyer

Had that happen once it's a very rude awakening! Hard to control the handlebars when you're draped over the crossbar not fun


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> More like this, an all time favorite.  I hit the high notes like this only once, when my foot slipped off the pedal on my bike and I hit the cross bar, hurt real bad, but voice went real high!




  
 Aaahhh, now you're talking, cf...(but am trying very hard to erase the image you conjure up lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 Anyway, back to more pleasurable thoughts...Jonas Kaufman...Having long admired di Stefano; Bergonzi; Gedda; Pavarotti (in his early days!); Domingo and Alagna, I have to say I personally have never been so entranced by a tenor as with this fellow. To be able to hit those high notes, yet also have the lower register richness of a baritone is totally breathtaking, IMHO...an amazing voice, to be sure...(such a shame he seems to be rather prone to illness/voice problems recently...it would be a real tragedy if he has simply done too much too soon in his career...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....).
  
 Speaking of careers (possibly) tragically cut short - in this next case _*life*_*!*





 - a beautiful example of Dan Fogelberg's work and talent displays Euforia's ability to handle and reproduce delicate, more 'restrained' music as deftly and effortlessly as more dynamic fare...ie. his "Make Love Stay"...(along with "Longer" and "Leader of the Band"). His background vocals are so clear and distinct, meshing (sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!!) with the main vocal line to absolute perfection... his voice positioned so as to engulf you in a space reserved for your ears only - no-one else allowed to spoil the intimacy of the experience...( I could just be getting carried away here, sorry!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...this setup just keeps knocking me off my perch LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Oskari

mordy A new (no, actually it's quite old ) video for you. Apparently the car wasn't a Volvo but a V6 Ford Mondeo (Mk III) ST220.


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/Xmkp22FlLNo[/VIDEO]


The chase ended here: https://goo.gl/maps/zSfbqqs7dC62


----------



## aqsw

You see the new ads for Shinola audio?
Now you can have Schiit and Shinola !


----------



## aqsw

Any news on your Euforia UT?


----------



## UntilThen

No news. All quiet on the western front. It's the calm before the storm.


----------



## UntilThen

I send Lukasz an email enquiring about my Euforia. I told him I'm not rushing him since I'm currently frantically rolling between Elise and La Figaro but would like to add Euforia to the equation and see more sparks. Let's see what he says.
  
 I also ask him for more info on the upgraded transformer.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I send Lukasz an email enquiring about my Euforia. I told him I'm not rushing him since I'm currently frantically rolling between Elise and La Figaro but would like to add Euforia to the equation and see more sparks. Let's see what he says.
> 
> I also ask him for more info on the upgraded transformer.


 
  
 Hi UT...looks like poor Lukasz is inundated at the moment - his _in_ tray seems to be taking a bit longer to get into his _out _tray at the moment! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I doubt they were expecting such an early, eager response to either Euforia or revamped Elise LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I do hope they manage to keep fairly well to schedule...I'm getting a bit impatient here lol!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And I too am awaiting info on the name of the Polish manufacturer...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. "Sparks" UT?...methinks your poor ears must be in _*flames*_ already by now!!...Such dedication!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...WELL DONE!!


----------



## UntilThen

Good news !
  
 You're right @hypnos1  that Lukasz and the team are inundated at the moment. He says they are on 24/7 for Euforia's launch. My unit will be shipped this week or the latest Monday or Tuesday.
  
 The transformer is made by a Polish company called Transformatory Lachowski, who made some ultra high end units in the past, very good stuff.


----------



## connieflyer

That is great news,UT, I am glad you got a date for shipping. It is nice to see the info on the transformer maker, this is looking better all the time. I am very glad I decided to get one.  Your tube reviews are very interesting and informative, makes it easier to make a good choice, thank you. Not wanting to get H moving to quickly this morning I will bring him on easily this morning.


----------



## connieflyer

One for PCT also


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You see the new ads for Shinola audio?
> Now you can have Schiit and Shinola !


 
  
 Are we talking butter?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> That is great news,UT, I am glad you got a date for shipping. It is nice to see the info on the transformer maker, this is looking better all the time. I am very glad I decided to get one.  Your tube reviews are very interesting and informative, makes it easier to make a good choice, thank you. Not wanting to get H moving to quickly this morning I will bring him on easily this morning.


 
  
 Thanks CF. As Alison Krauss said, that's the worst thing I've heard in my entire life. We've to do it too. That's coming from the video you just posted.
  
 Ok... maybe it was the best thing.


----------



## connieflyer

Well that is all true and it must mean that you must be ......


----------



## UntilThen

I'm loving these Alison Krauss videos that you post. Beautiful voice and songs.


----------



## UntilThen

CF can you stop hopping from one thread to another? You are making me groggy.


----------



## connieflyer

She has a great voice and a very warm stage persona. Have followed her for years and have never been disappointed. Glad you liked it too


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> She has a great voice and a very warm stage persona. Have followed her for years and have never been disappointed. Glad you liked it too


 
  
 Never mind her great voice. I'm too excited now that my Euforia will be shipping in a few days time. This is almost like waiting for my Elise back in Oct 2015.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay UT I will stay over here where I belong now. How about one from Alison's newest album Windy City? Okay? That's right you are reading this and must see how she sounds again, I know the feeling!


----------



## connieflyer

Okay I won't even tempt you with these then, just forget I suggested these..


----------



## connieflyer

Last one now that H has arrived I can shut down the dj show. Well after this one of course.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Good news !
> 
> You're right @hypnos1  that Lukasz and the team are inundated at the moment. He says they are on 24/7 for Euforia's launch. My unit will be shipped this week or the latest Monday or Tuesday.
> 
> The transformer is made by a Polish company called Transformatory Lachowski, who made some ultra high end units in the past, very good stuff.


 
  
 Y'know, UT, I'm beginning to feel really guilty at giving those poor guys at F-A such a workup...perhaps I should have been a tad less enthusiastic lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Ah well, such is the price of fame...they can't really blame me - it's Pop Henryk's fault!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...bless him...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(which I do every single day LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 So you got the trafo maker's name...good on yer!...he certainly does seem to have a very good reputation...( but now, you guys are gonna have me even _more_ envious!!!...will obviously need to have a quiet word with Lukasz, methinks - but not until the poor guys at F-A have had chance to catch breath!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


untilthen said:


> Never mind her great voice. I'm too excited now that my Euforia will be shipping in a few days time. This is almost like waiting for my Elise back in Oct 2015.


 
  
_*Worse*_, surely, UT?...!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I obviously haven't been enthusiastic _enough_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
  


connieflyer said:


> Last one now that H has arrived I can shut down the dj show. Well after this one of course.




  
 Ooohhh...._nice_, cf...VERY nice...you know what I like!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And this track brings me nicely onto something I was about to mention as yet another 'taster' for you all...viz. the _*slide*_ guitar.
  
 I have already waxed lyrical about the wonderful tonal range (plus harmonics) I'm hearing from acoustic strings especially...well, today I revisited Irish Folk group 'The Fureys', and their track "When I leave behind Neidin", and said slide guitar produced tones I never knew existed lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and has lifted this instrument MUCH higher in my estimation than I would have ever dreamt..._startling!!!_...
  
 Each new day, and each 'new' track (that I've heard hundreds of times) brings surprises galore...more so than I have ever had the great fortune to enjoy before...this is all _too_ much LOL!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 (Sorry if I'm twisting that ol' knife..._again!!_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but hopefully you also will soon be put out of your misery...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## aqsw

I can hardly wait for my Euforia. I was looking at this one, but I'm glad I didn't hit the buy it now button!!!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pleiades-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-Sennheiser-HD580-650-AKG-K240-Beyer-DT990/332111712463?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3Db8f2e3fbadf04066873c6d8999d4ac1f%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D331835856711


----------



## UntilThen

Here's a video of Transformatory Lachowski


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I can hardly wait for my Euforia. I was looking at this one, but I'm glad I didn't hit the buy it now button!!!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pleiades-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-Sennheiser-HD580-650-AKG-K240-Beyer-DT990/332111712463?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3Db8f2e3fbadf04066873c6d8999d4ac1f%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D331835856711


 
  
 $47,000 ?   Is that a typo error?


----------



## mordy

Hi angpsi,
  
 How about contacting this guy with the 47K headphone amp for a comparison with the Elise? (I note that you both are located in Athens, Greece)


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> $47,000 ?   Is that a typo error?




No typo. It does have free shipping!


----------



## connieflyer

Another great voice, when she sang music instead of what ever they call it now


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
For some reason I can't copy and paste a link.

Go to you tube

Search black circle films

Click wild homes.

Its my daughters band. She is the bass player. She writes all the music amn lyrics.

Tell me what you think, even if its bad.


----------



## DecentLevi

I may have gotten closer to locating your wolf in question...

  
 Or what if I parade down the Polish streets adorned with this - shall I attain Euforia with speedier haste?

  
serious post


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I can hardly wait for my Euforia. I was looking at this one, but I'm glad I didn't hit the buy it now button!!!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pleiades-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-Sennheiser-HD580-650-AKG-K240-Beyer-DT990/332111712463?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3Db8f2e3fbadf04066873c6d8999d4ac1f%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D331835856711


 
  
 Thanks for the best laugh I've had for a VERY long time, aqsw...especially when you look at what's feeding it, and what _*it's*_ feeding...*gotta* be an early "April Fool's" job lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And I can feel your expectant excitement growing daily...along with everyone else's..._*and it's just killing me LOL!!*_








...(F-A had better make it *48*/7, methinks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> I may have gotten closer to locating your wolf in question...
> 
> 
> Or what if I parade down the Polish streets adorned with this - shall I attain Euforia with speedier haste?
> ...


 
  
 Methinks you've got much more chance with the first pic to be honest, DL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(that circled shot should definitely be their new logo on the amp lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey guys,
> For some reason I can't copy and paste a link.
> 
> Go to you tube
> ...


 
  
 I think it's pretty good. I like this song.


----------



## connieflyer

So she ended up with all the talent in his family, well done!


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys....thought I was done with "Midnight Missives", but yet more *OMG* moments are forcing me to post this....decided it was time to try something different to my trusty test tracks of old and get a _bit_ more up to date - viz. the wonderful *Sade...*specifically "Soldier of Love" album. Her silky voice and some striking backing have just given me a VERY high "freeze" index indeed...and this is from 'plain' CD, via my Oppo BDP 103 to my latest 'end game' Euforia setup. I simply cannot believe this sound...it is _*pure vinyl*_ lol...but without the slightest hint of hiss/plop/crackle/click etc. etc....and with a resolution, clarity, soundstage and bass slam that could only ever come from a multi-K dollar TT rig...absolutely mind-boggling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...hope this youtube is available to all, so you get a _tiny_ taste of what I've been wallowing in just now...(when I should really have been snoring!!)...
  

  
 Goodnight all...once again!...ENJOY!..


----------



## Oskari

That's 42:08 of beautiful!


----------



## UntilThen

That Sade track does explode on Elise and LF339 and I'm drowning in a sea of goodness.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  the EL tubes I send you have arrived in United Kingdom. One week ! That's fast by dolphins services.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> That's 42:08 of beautiful!


 
  
 You listened to _*all*_ of it, O?...GREAT! ...had thought I might only like the odd number or two of hers, but....OOOHHH....I'm well and truly hooked lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 She's far more versatile than 'just' "Smooth Operator" - great though that piece is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...must get more of her work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> That Sade track does explode on Elise and LF339 and I'm drowning in a sea of goodness.


 
  
 Glad you liked it too, UT...I was mightily impressed, to say the least! "Drowning" is indeed a very apt word...as is "engulfed"...she just swallowed me up whole lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...and just you wait 'til you hear this album in Euforia! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...whatever the recording engineer did with the backing in track 2 fair scrambled my brain!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but I must admit, I'm sure this was helped in no small measure by the mesh EL11/EL12 Spezial combo LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  the EL tubes I send you have arrived in United Kingdom. One week ! That's fast by dolphins services.


 
  
 That is simply unbelievable UT....reckon those poor dolphins were being chased by a pack of Great Whites lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...or a pod of Killer Whales?!...Whatever, it did the trick, obviously!!  Let's hope they've all headed across the North Sea to _somewhere_ near land-locked Poland and can remember their way back to the Penal Colony LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  
 Looking forward to doing the autopsy...but with mixed feelings, of course...dead, or dying tubes always tug at my heart strings when I see them on the operating table...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but let's hope for a miracle...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Now then...is this weird or what...just as I'm finishing this, the postman knocks and...you guessed it...*they've arrived!!*...(bang goes my quiet Sunday lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So I'd better get on with some chores...gotta sweeten up the good lady! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

They arrived ???!!! Are the tubes intact? Hope they are not smashed to pieces.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> They arrived ???!!! Are the tubes intact? Hope they are not smashed to pieces.


 
  
 Safe and sound, UT...and they certainly do _*look*_ OK, don't they?!!...(but then, these glass wonders - or should that be _*Devils*_ sometimes lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - do have a habit of fooling us, no?!!). And you packed them really well, so they should have been fine for the "let's play tag" games Dolphins seem to love!!!...(but just as well those Whites' teeth didn't get anywhere near!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Anyway, will see if there's any sign of real life tomorrow...fingers crossed, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I hope and pray your own box - complete with extra tubes(!) - reaches you from Poland in similarly pristine state...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz told me my Euforia will be delivered by a Mermaid.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Safe and sound, UT...


 
  
 Yup just got an email notification that the parcel has been delivered.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Lukasz told me my Euforia will be delivered by a Mermaid.


 

 In Ukraine he said it will be by Russian Cossack.


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer  will have his delivered by Bolt.


----------



## connieflyer

I don't care how it gets here, so long as I get it! And to make sure they get delivered safely, make  sure that the Sun does not go down


----------



## connieflyer

I watched an interesting program last night on PBS, I know I am old, but they do have some good programing sometimes.  This is a sample.....


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I don't care how it gets here, so long as I get it! And to make sure they get delivered safely, make  sure that the Sun does not go down





 I think we need to keep in mind that UT is the secret power behind the British thrown, and as we all know the sun never sets on the British Empire. He doesn't realize the British lost the Revolutionary War.


----------



## connieflyer

You know what they say, "Ignorance is bliss"!  They used to say the sun never set on myself at one time, but then I lost a lot of weight and the sun could move along then!


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> Hi angpsi,
> 
> How about contacting this guy with the 47K headphone amp for a comparison with the Elise? (I note that you both are located in Athens, Greece)



Hi guys, been out of the country for about a week now and accordingly out of touch with news on both of the threads; so today I tried to cover as much ground as I could. Yet this 47K deal left me stunned! Unsurprisingly, the amp shows as unsold; but what baffles me is the feedback it gets on the item description:
"___very nice little amp- you should try it! Thanks a lot!"
For 47K I 'd much rather go for an altogether different Greek: http://ypsilonelectronics.com


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> In Ukraine he said it will be by Russian Cossack.


 
  
 Aaahhh, pct...so I doubt any wolves are gonna argue with _*him*_ lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(let's just hope the Wolf in your package doesn't howl _too_ loudly, however! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 And @UntilThen's Mermaid will obviously be able to charm those Great Whites...while @connieflyer's Bolt should be able to outrun _most_ of those tracking him! So all in all, it would seem _you_ guys will be fine...but what about everyone else LOL?!!...(I sincerely hope they all have their own "Guardian Angels"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Hi guys, been out of the country for about a week now and accordingly out of touch with news on both of the threads; so today I tried to cover as much ground as I could. Yet this 47K deal left me stunned! Unsurprisingly, the amp shows as unsold; but what baffles me is the feedback it gets on the item description:
> "___very nice little amp- you should try it! Thanks a lot!"
> For 47K I 'd much rather go for an altogether different Greek: http://ypsilonelectronics.com


 
  
 Wow angpsi...now that _*is*_ some serious-looking equipment - what life is like for the multi-millionaire lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But thankfully my own setup is now sounding _*a million dollars*_, for a fraction of the cost...thanks partly to you and your serendipitous mistake with the EL12 'Spezial' - they're turning out to be wonderful tubes indeed...GOOD ONE!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...now go catch up on the rest of the ground LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> You listened to _*all*_ of it, O?




I sampled it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I think we need to keep in mind that UT is the secret power behind the British thrown, and as we all know the sun never sets on the British Empire. He doesn't realize the British lost the Revolutionary War.


 
  
  


connieflyer said:


> You know what they say, "Ignorance is bliss"!  They used to say the sun never set on myself at one time, but then I lost a lot of weight and the sun could move along then!


 
  
 My name is Bond.... James Bond. I like my martini shaken not stirred.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> I sampled it.


 
  
 Now you've disappointed me, O...you _*must*_ listen to it all _*properly, lol!!*_...I myself have done a retake, and I'm bowled over even more than the first time!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have never, _*ever*_ heard such sub-bass from _*any*_ of my tubes to date...either in Elise or Euforia. This EL11/12 Spezial combo leaves even the mighty ECC31/GEC 1834 eating its dust lol!!!...unbelievable...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (And all from 'humble' 16bit/44.1kHz CD!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


untilthen said:


> My name is Bond.... James Bond. I like my martini shaken not stirred.




  
 And _my_ name is 'M', lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and I like my Hennessy XO _*unmolested!!!*_...(not to mention *undrunk LOL!!*





). But hey, how come _you _get all the gals and all the fun?..._*not fair!*_





...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And _my_ name is 'M', lol!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry M, XO is finished. Only Samurai whisky left and it will be aged for 50 years.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Sorry M, XO is finished. Only Samurai whisky left and it will be aged for 50 years.


 
  
 Hmmmm....ah well, we are looking for a new 007 - perhaps you might just have blown your chances of being reinstated!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*Whisky*_, indeed!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## aqsw

Damn, Im #6 on the que. 

Told the first 5 are going out next week.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> I think it's pretty good. I like this song.




Thanks UT.

My daughter writes all the music and lyrics. A lot of personsl stuff included.


----------



## aqsw

*​


aqsw said:


> Thanks UT.
> 
> My daughter writes all the music and lyrics. A lot of personsl stuff included.




They are getting very popular in Winnipeg. They have sold 14 Tshirts already!!!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Damn, Im #6 on the que.
> 
> Told the first 5 are going out next week.


 
  
 Yes !!! Number 97 invoice should be in there. Mermaid express. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aqsw said:


> Thanks UT.
> 
> My daughter writes all the music and lyrics. A lot of personsl stuff included.


 
  
 I'm sure you're a proud dad. She has talent. !


----------



## UntilThen

Lukasz send me a picture of my Euforia about to be shipped. I'm wondering where am I going to roll all the tubes that I have in that design.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh UT, you big silly the tubes go in the remote of course I thought you knew that


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Oh UT, you big silly the tubes go in the remote of course I thought you knew that


 
  
 How can I even miss the cute little remote. This is truly a work of art... this Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

I placed mine, when you had the color option available and got one in Metallic Green, it also glows in the dark so it is easier to find!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I placed mine, when you had the color option available and got one in Metallic Green, it also glows in the dark so it is easier to find!


 

 This is the Special Edition Ukraine Euphoria. I trust you can see where to put the tubes. It is controlled by mental telepathy so no remote needed.


----------



## connieflyer

That being the case, you better have your manual translated so your wife can control it otherwise you will not be able to use it! No mental facilities as it were, poor fella!


----------



## connieflyer

A little something to get H moving this morning


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> That being the case, you better have your manual translated so your wife can control it otherwise you will not be able to use it! No mental facilities as it were, poor fella!


 

 SHAME, SHAME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 You attack one of the great minds of the world. How do you sleep at night??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have but one question for you:


----------



## connieflyer

Get up @hypnos1 music is playing!


----------



## connieflyer

Relax H will take you to your relaxation point


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## pctazhp

What am I??? Chopped liver???
  
 I don't get any music ?????


----------



## connieflyer

Okay if you are going to throw a tantrum maybe this will cool your jets!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> A little something to get H moving this morning




  
 Hey cf...you're just TOO telepathic for my liking lol!....guess what my better half said when I told her I had a mammoth task on this weekend with sick tubes in the operating theatre?...."_*On yer bike, it's chore time!!!"*_






...(haven't even been able to have my daily LMcK fix...and withdrawal symptoms are kicking in BIG time lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - just gonna _*have*_ to get me a _Man Cave_ somewhere out of earshot LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


pctazhp said:


> What am I??? Chopped liver???
> 
> I don't get any music ?????


 
  
_*Of course*_ you get some music, my dear friend....._*just for you!!*_..(or should that be DavidA lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...CHEERS!...


----------



## angpsi

hypnos1 said:


> Wow angpsi...now that _*is*_ some serious-looking equipment - what life is like for the multi-millionaire lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't wanna rub it to anyone's face, but Ypsilon does offer a _very_ generous discount to its Greek clients (something about solidarity in times of a crisis). Regardless, they're still out of reach for many of my compatriots, including myself... but one can always be generous in their dreams, right?
  
 I humbly accept your gratitude for my venture in serendipity, but only if you provide us with an _exact_ list of the materials you used for your adapters (namely brands and links on how to get them)! So far I haven't been able to enjoy my spez's properly and being an architect won't let me accept the tin foil solution wholeheartedly... So it's either spez's on the drivers seat, or DIY time for me—unless I end up dumping the whole EL thing altogether!
  
 On a side note, before I left I received 2XTF EL12st, 2XTF EL11, and one Valvo EL11 to complement my other single one. So it looks like I'm going backwards compared to how the group progressed in regard to this crazy EL trip!


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Don't wanna rub it to anyone's face, but Ypsilon does offer a _very_ generous discount to its Greek clients (something about solidarity in times of a crisis). Regardless, they're still out of reach for many of my compatriots, including myself...* but one can always be generous in their dreams, right?*
> 
> I humbly accept your gratitude for my venture in serendipity, but only if you provide us with an _exact_ list of the materials you used for your adapters (namely brands and links on how to get them)! So far I haven't been able to enjoy my spez's properly and being an architect won't let me accept the tin foil solution wholeheartedly... So it's either spez's on the drivers seat, or DIY time for me—unless I end up dumping the whole EL thing altogether!
> 
> On a side note, before I left I received 2XTF EL12st, 2XTF EL11, and one Valvo EL11 to complement my other single one. So it looks like I'm going backwards compared to how the group progressed in regard to this crazy EL trip!


 
  
 Yeah, angpsi..._*dream on, baby!!!*_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Re. those Spezials...I would have loved to post a tutorial on how I myself adapt them, but unless one is _*very*_ experienced in this area, I'm afraid I simply cannot risk someone making a rookie mistake - especially with that exposed top anode....sorry!
 So for the sake of safety, I really do suggest you follow @HOWIE13's method...I'm sure you can also achieve a fairly neat result..._*with practice!!*_ And who knows, with any luck you may only need thin layers of foil to do the trick...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I do hope so...it's well worth the try lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## DecentLevi

angpsi said:


> ...So far I haven't been able to enjoy my spez's properly and being an architect won't let me accept the tin foil solution wholeheartedly... So it's either spez's on the drivers seat, or DIY time for me—unless I end up dumping the whole EL thing altogether!
> ...


 
  
 If you follow my _(lightly modified)_ solution, you get perhaps even 25% + more effectiveness at hum reduction (now a steadfast complete absence of hum), and a neater appearance. Wrapping the anode wire around the tube has shown in my testing to provide better RF isolation and reduce its' visibility. Also as I've just noticed, putting the external wires over / behind instead of on top the transformer does more of the same - better isolation and neater appearance yet.
  

  
 And here was the back view from when I had the wire on top:

  
 All this was done briefly between shifts working 48 hours in 4 days, so it takes hardly much time. I recommend thicker foil than less though, to ensure better isolation. And I'll tell ya, I've found no reason to move my EL12 Spez from the powers seat since I've placed them in


----------



## DecentLevi

I don't proclaim this to be the best solution out there, but the most effective we've found so far. There's probably some better industrial isolator / shielding solution out there as well to cover it with.


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> I don't proclaim this to be the best solution out there, but the most effective we've found so far. There's probably some better industrial isolator / shielding solution out there as well to cover it with.


 
 I'm curious. Have you considered trying to strip the non-anode end of the external wires and grounding them to say one of the outer rings of the RCA outputs? Maybe not worth trying if you have already solved the problem.


----------



## angpsi

decentlevi said:


> I don't proclaim this to be the best solution out there, but the most effective we've found so far. There's probably some better industrial isolator / shielding solution out there as well to cover it with.


 

 OR—and I _know_ you'll be teased enough—you can go with MsX's other advice:


> _EL12 spez ONLY for driver tube. *Dual EL12spez* can be insert to 6AS7 power tube._ (ref. via personal communication)


 
 Just be careful with the overall amperage of your combo! Can't have you scolded anew in this thread! 
  
 Btw, I invite more experienced members to intervene here; haven't done the math myself, and I _am_ a self-professed newbie in the tube game!


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> I'm curious. Have you considered trying to strip the non-anode end of the external wires and grounding them to say one of the outer rings of the RCA outputs? Maybe not worth trying if you have already solved the problem.


 

 If you mean the white hanging ones in DL's pics, I have and I promise you it's very possible one could _spark_ things up reaching for those 'outer rings of the RCA outputs'... That, or I was just too clumsy with my hands when I tried it for myself! For what it's worth, I didn't hear much difference trying this against merely moving the cables to a suitable position...


----------



## DecentLevi

pctazhp said:


> I'm curious. Have you considered trying to strip the non-anode end of the external wires and grounding them to say one of the outer rings of the RCA outputs? Maybe not worth trying if you have already solved the problem.


 
  
 This would be interesting for someone else to try, though for me I'm satisfied with my solution. An easier way to do that would be just to squeeze a semi-thin wire under the anode cap when inserting the top back on, as to not strip the wire.
  
On 2nd thought, though grounding to the RCA outputs has worked with other amps, no direct electrical contact was made with the amps' circuitry, so for this one I wouldn't recommend it.
  
 And other industrial solutions I had in mind were something akin to a thin aluminum sheet of sorts that you could bend covered by a thick rubber housing. Or some thin flexible metal piping like this:


----------



## pctazhp

Well guys. I guess I can be pretty free with my advice when it's someone else's Elise I'm blowing up


----------



## Oskari

One could try connecting the _shield_ to a suitable ground, such as RCA as mentioned, but *not* the _anode cap wire_!

I don't see the harm in this. But you had problems with this angpsi?


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah I would recommend isolating the _shield _to a suitable ground, but not a direct connection to the RCA sockets from under the cap, nor stripping the anode wires as was suggested. Otherwise non-grounded solutions like foil that has been working or thin metal pipe as shielding


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer




----------



## UntilThen

Seriously guys, do you really get any satisfactions from your amps with wires sticking out all over?

I will never do that even if it's ecstacy inducing.

Think aesthetics. Feliks Audio created a beautiful amp but you go stcking wires all over and use your ikea kitchen drainer.

I thought the days of frankenstein multi tubes are over and I heave a sigh of relief only to see a new trend of octo***** making headlines.

Please do not take Euforia with those stray wires to a Can Jam. I don't want anyone to die of laughing.


----------



## DecentLevi

hmmm, I sure never thought of it that way. Looks have no bearing on sound IMO, and this is just a neatly tucked in but of shiny tin with two wires that go behind the amp in a very out of the way fashion. 
  
 I'll be using a cleaner setup though with Euforia at CanJam L.A. next month, should I receive it in time.


----------



## UntilThen

Southern Sun


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> hmmm, I sure never thought of it that way. Looks have no bearing on sound IMO, and this is just a neatly tucked in but of shiny tin with two wires that go behing the amp in a very out of the way fashion.
> 
> I'll be using a cleaner setup though with Euforia at CanJam L.A. next month, should I receive it in time.


 
  
 You don't seen such outlandish display of extreme tweaks on DNA Stratus or Eddie Current Zana Deus S thread.
  
 Stay classy for Euforia. She deserves it.


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> hmmm, I sure never thought of it that way. Looks have no bearing on sound IMO, and this is just a neatly tucked in but of shiny tin with two wires that go behing the amp in a very out of the way fashion.
> 
> I'll be using a cleaner setup though with Euforia at CanJam L.A. next month, should I receive it in time.


 
  
 Hi DL....@UntilThen is absolutely right about anything that goes beyond the single top anode wire appearance. Whereas this is universally accepted as _indicating_ something _possibly_ superior, _*any other*_ variations from "norm" will undoubtedly bring derision from a good many "serious" head-fiers, _*no matter how good it actually sounds lol!!!*_ There are those out there - as per the likes of the 'not to be mentioned forum' - who take delight at capitalising on the slightest hint of variation from usual setups, especially when "controversial", or that aren't totally "problem-free".
  
 These things don't matter at home -  to _*some!*_






  (when _sound_ is the be all and end all)...but out there in the jungle, it's quite a different matter I'm afraid, despite otherwise good intentions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 So yes, please bear this in mind - _*especially*_ at a venue such as CanJam LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(ps. Will add something to said CanJam you posted, when I'm out of tube surgery lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL....@UntilThen is absolutely right about anything that goes beyond the single top anode wire appearance. Whereas this is universally accepted as _indicating_ something _possibly_ superior, _*any other*_ variations from "norm" will undoubtedly bring derision from a good many "serious" head-fiers, _*no matter how good it actually sounds lol!!!*_


 
  
 Correct. Don't force it. If it doesn't work, revert to EL11 and EL12. It can't be that bad.
  
 This is neat and nice. You get it to this standard, you can show it to the world.

  
 This is I don't know what. If hum is that bad, revert to other combinations that works without stray wires and won't turn your Elise into a freak show. You show up at Can Jam in this manner, you're going to be barred at the door. What you do behind close doors is your own business.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Seriously guys, do you really get any satisfactions from your amps with wires sticking out all over?
> 
> I will never do that even if it's ecstacy inducing.
> 
> ...


 

 I would also hope that no one takes Euforia (or even Elise) to a show with wires dangling. It detracts from the classic beauty of the FA amps, and I really can't understand how wires that end in space can solve anything. But who knows? All I know is I have achieved with Elise far more than I ever hoped when I first bought it all without aid of Christmas Trees or Octopusi.
  
 Now having said that, I will have to admit that your idea of training my pet hamster to lie quietly asleep next to Elise during my listening sessions has made a huge difference - well at least in my wife's expression when she looks at me listening to music.


----------



## UntilThen

Still no news from Feliks Audio about my Euforia shipping. I think they can't find the last screw. @connieflyer  must be getting his at the same time.
  
 97 - UT
 98 - @Apo89
 99 - @connieflyer
 100 - @mordy
 101 - @aqsw 
 102 - ?
 103 - @pctazhp
 104 - ?
 105 - @DecentLevi
  
 Who's 102 and 104?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I would also hope that no one takes Euforia (or even Elise) to a show with wires dangling.


 
  
 Only if you're as gorgeous as Victoria's Secret Sara Sampaio. I can't show her in swimwear. It would be too sizzling. I hope your wife isn't reading all these.


----------



## 2359glenn

decentlevi said:


> angpsi said:
> 
> 
> > ...So far I haven't been able to enjoy my spez's properly and being an architect won't let me accept the tin foil solution wholeheartedly... So it's either spez's on the drivers seat, or DIY time for me—unless I end up dumping the whole EL thing altogether!
> ...


 

 Why don't you make the adapter with shielded wire??
 If you don't want to use a separate ground connection to the wire just hook the shield to the cathode of the tube you will have no hum.
 Can't deal with a amp that ends up looking like crap it needs to be professional especially if you are taking it to a show.
  
 I am forgetting that H1 is the only person that can make adapters on this thread


----------



## connieflyer

DL if you remember what happened the last time you went to a show with the Christmas tree setup people came by looked at it laughed and walked away only one or two people actually bothered to listen to it. You make Feliks audio look bad Frankenstein is not a look that people buy, its things that people try. If you want to do this spez at home go for it others have tried it they love it. But when you're going to a show with wires hanging off the amp it is messy and unprofessional-looking and that is part of the whole show facade. You're not going to sell something that looks like somebody's trash that they brought in after the garbage people left the can. So for once take a little advice if you get your amp in time for the show take it, put some decent tubes in their and let people see it and experience what Feliks audio Vision was and still is not yours.


----------



## connieflyer

Motivational music for PCT


----------



## connieflyer

Motivational music for UT  (she motivated me!)


----------



## connieflyer

Morning relaxation for surgery with H1 for tube one
  

  
 and for tube two
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jckKmsCsmio&list=RDJ9uFWZqME7A&index=33


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Only if you're as gorgeous as Victoria's Secret Sara Sampaio. I can't show her in swimwear. It would be too sizzling. I hope your wife isn't reading all these.


 
  
 She doesn't. And I haven't been reading any of the posts here for the past 2 or 3 months. I sincerely apologize if I have left the opposite impression.
  
 And in case @connieflyer or anyone else is wondering how motivated I'm feeling today, just want you to know I'm motivated to go back to sleep.


----------



## connieflyer

Are you out of surgery yet?


----------



## pctazhp

When I was in high school I was head over heels with a girl 2 years behind me. Finally, I got the nerve to ask her out. For our first date I took her to a drive-in movie theater because I wanted to make out with her. It didn't occur to me to ask her what she wanted to do. Many years later I married her and she spent 31 years of marriage making me pay for that first date. But that's another story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm not a headphone show kind of guy. But if I ever did take Elise or Euphoria on a date to a show I hope I would think of what was best for her and not for me.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> Why don't you make the adapter with shielded wire??
> If you don't want to use a separate ground connection to the wire just hook the shield to the cathode of the tube you will have no hum.
> *Can't deal with a amp that ends up looking like crap it needs to be professional especially if you are taking it to a show.*
> 
> I am forgetting that H1 is the only person that can make adapters on this thread


 
  
 Couldn't agree more, Glenn...don't think _you'd_ be too happy if someone were to take one of your lovely amps looking something like that lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is indeed a great shame these EL12 Spezials need special/careful treatment...but at least most folks seem to be able to achieve reasonably satisfactory results _*behind closed doors LOL!!!*_








...
  


connieflyer said:


> Are you out of surgery yet?




  
 O Mio Bambino e _*morte!!*_





...and it was the Telefunken. You were right @UntilThen...the heater was u/s. The pins would get hot, but no light. Gave the tube a good few taps and...rather loud metallic tinkle/rattle (as opposed to glass shard tinkle)...a sure giveaway!!  Should have done this before spending hours doing a semi-full adapting job - easy to be wise after the event lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Mind you, such vigorous tapping is usually _*not to be recommended!!*_, and should *only *be done if one really _*has*_ to!
  
 Anyway, the RFT 12 lights up nicely and there's no nasty sound with a _light_ tap, so I shall hope for perhaps a bit more luck with that one...some time later in the week...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## angpsi

oskari said:


> One could try connecting the _shield_ to a suitable ground, such as RCA as mentioned, but *not* the _anode cap wire_!
> 
> I don't see the harm in this. But you had problems with this @angpsi?


 

 Yes, I did. But granted, it's very possible that I stuffed the foil shield too much into the cap so that it got to touch the active anode wire.


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Yes, I did. But granted, it's very possible that I stuffed the foil shield too much into the cap so that it got to touch the active anode wire.


 
  
 OUCH!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...not a good idea lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## angpsi

hypnos1 said:


> OUCH!!!...:eek: ...not a good idea lol! :wink_face: ...


Tell me about it!...


----------



## angpsi

angpsi said:


> Tell me about it!...


 At least we can't really blame pctazhp for his advice!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> At least we can't really blame @pctazhp for his advice!


 
  
 As I have had to tell UT in the past:


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I'm certainly not getting the agitation from my buzz-kill solution on the EL12 Spez as you guys are. Maybe it's one of those things where it doesn't look as bad in real life. And as mentioned, most of the foil and wires are obscured (to the order of 70% I'd say), with the design I've shown. And thanks for not completely pinning this one on me, because IIRC this was originally Howie's idea, then perfected by @angpsi, which I basically just copied and tweaked a bit.
  
 And it's a necessary fix, because without it there was hum so loud I could barely hear the music at 2:00. Without the wires and just the foil, the hum would still creep back up, and is probably system dependent to a point, seeing how I have no ground connection at all in this room. 
  


2359glenn said:


> Why don't you make the adapter with shielded wire??
> If you don't want to use a separate ground connection to the wire just hook the shield to the cathode of the tube you will have no hum.
> Can't deal with a amp that ends up looking like crap it needs to be professional especially if you are taking it to a show.
> 
> I am forgetting that H1 is the only person that can make adapters on this thread


 
  
 Sorry I really don't know how to do this... probably buy a thicker wire and cut / solder the original? But I don't have a soldering iron.
 And I would need to see a photo of hooking a shield to a cathode to know what this refers to.
  
 For me this is really so simple: *I'm satisfied with this setup at home, and if I take it to a trade show I'll have no problem just using another of my more 'conventional' and neat setups* - I have about 200 combinations to choose from at present.
  
 Also RE the 'Christmas Tree' setup that I took to the SF meet last year: In actual fact, nobody had ever laughed at it... not one. Those who saw it, including my friend Jude, the owner of Head-Fi just inquired about the concept behind that tube setup and asked for a listen. I should know because I was the one who was exhibiting it. Of those who listened, it was quite evident that everybody was quite impressed with it, and I even saw one emotionally touched when listening to a song he's heard a thousand times, trying to hold back the tears of enjoyment _(these sentiments can be found in the old original posts)._ Jude actually didn't seem that impressed with the sound, perhaps biased by the appearance a bit.
  
 Nevertheless I've already sold off components of my above mentioned setup, in favor of others which I have found to have superior performance... namely GEC 6AS7G, RCA 6080, then the recent 'EL13' craze.
  
 So it was already my plan to showcase the Euforia with more 'conventional' setups in the first place, leaving this makeshift hum reduction for the EL12 Spez at home.
 However there's a chance that I won't even get mine on time for the April 8th show, and *there's a chance that the Euforia won't even need such external effects to reduce the hum* with those.
  
 Meanwhile, I'm enjoying fidelity that truly goes _at least somewhat_ beyond anything I've ever experienced on the Elise before with these EL12 Spez as powers. For the first time I've had no desire to swap other (power) tubes in almost a week, even with all the dozens of rare + expensive ones I have to choose from. *When I see the solution, I truly don't see any 'crap', just something that makes me feel happy that I've found a solution for the hum* that was once loud enough to physically feel the vibration of the hum when I held the headphones in my hand.
  
 One man's trash is another man's treasure. And this is the best solution I have  ATM / at the moment.


----------



## pctazhp

@DecentLevi I don't think anyone suggested you limit in any way how you personally decide to use your Elise at home. The most recent discussion has simply been some of us concerned that Euforia not be presented at a show in such a way as to suggest it may require unsightly modifications that could turn off people seeing it for the first time or who are not very familiar with it.
  
 I personally have an issue with even presenting Elise or Euforia at a show using tubes that may not even be available or if they are cost an arm and a leg. But I suspect I'm a minority of one with that view.


----------



## UntilThen

DL those guys at Can Jam didn't laugh at your Christmas tree setup because they are too polite but as soon as your back is turn, they would be rolling on the floor in uncontrollable fits.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning welcome to Evanescence


----------



## 2359glenn

angpsi said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > One could try connecting the _shield_ to a suitable ground, such as RCA as mentioned, but *not* the _anode cap wire_!
> ...


 

 Seems to me that Mrs X should be asked to make adapters with shielded wire before somebody get killed.
 The anode cap has the full B+ voltage of the amp on it
 The thing is this is not hum pickup but the tubes are oscillating and it might not even do it with the Euforia that has a different parts layout.
 Bottom line is this tube should not be recommended for this amp no matter how good it supposedly sounds.


----------



## UntilThen

2359glenn said:


> Seems to me that Mrs X should be asked to make adapters with shielded wire before somebody get killed.
> The anode cap has the full B+ voltage of the amp on it
> The thing is this is not hum pickup but the tubes are oscillating and it might not even do it with the Euforia that has a different parts layout.


 
  
 Glenn I will if you give me more info. This is the current adapter with wire to the anode cap. What needs to be changed?


----------



## 2359glenn

This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
 All exposed shield will have to be covered with heat shrink tubing.
 If you can get inside the adapter the cathode connection could be done inside the adapter.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Glenn. I will get in touch with Mrs Xu Ling and see if she understands what is required. 
  
 We are indebted to your help as always. My sincere thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

Alpha, Charlie, Tango, Foxtrot, this is Bumblebee. It's Eureka. I repeat Eureka.....  and if you have forgotten what Eureka means.....
  
 it is invasion day. Euforia has shipped yesterday. Lukasz's email finally came through.


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations, the wait will soon be over for you. You should have it in time for the show,then, that's great. Hope I hear soon, too.


----------



## DecentLevi

2359glenn said:


> This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
> All exposed shield will have to be covered with heat shrink tubing.
> If you can get inside the adapter the cathode connection could be done inside the adapter.


 


2359glenn said:


> Why don't you make the adapter with shielded wire??
> If you don't want to use a separate ground connection to the wire just hook the shield to the cathode of the tube you will have no hum.


 
 So if I read right, did you mean to say putting a wire between the shield and the cathode socket as shown would quell the hum? Then heat shrink should be applied, such as in the photo below?
  

  
 Note that I am DEFINITELY not recommending connecting the shield to the cathode in any way, just seeking clarification so that maybe somebody with a deeper electrical knowledge may possibly try it out, and to aid Mrs. Xuling also possibly solve the problem with a better adapter too.


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> Alpha, Charlie, Tango, Foxtrot, this is Bumblebee. It's Eureka. I repeat Eureka.....  and if you have forgotten what Eureka means.....
> 
> it is invasion day. Euforia has shipped yesterday. Lukasz's email finally came through.


 
  
 Great news - guessing the next week will feel more like a month while you await it's arrival in Sydney.


----------



## UntilThen

spork67 said:


> Great news - guessing the next week will feel more like a month while you await it's arrival in Sydney.


 
  
 With Elise and La Figaro to keep me occupied, the wait isn't so bad. I know these 2 amps sound signature well now. When Euforia arrives, I should have no problem picking out the differences. 
  
 As I said before, I'll roll with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c first in Euforia till it's burn in and any initial impressions will be based upon these tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Tracking of my Euforia says:-
  

Package type:Priority postal parcel

 
Package weight:7.46 kg

  
 That means it's coming by super sonic jet and Euforia has gain some weight over Elise, unless it's the packaging and H1's heavily modified EL11.


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I am glad you have all the other amps to keep you company, I had to throw my cardboard amp out, Conner thought it would make a great soccer ball. Glad I had removed the tubes! Hope the wait is not to long.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
> All exposed shield will have to be covered with heat shrink tubing.
> If you can get inside the adapter the cathode connection could be done inside the adapter.


 
  
                                                                                                              *WARNING*
  
Sorry Glenn, but that's the cathode position of the *TUBE*, not the *ADAPTER*...the position you've shown is _*grid #2*_ which, if MrsX has connected properly for 'triode-strapped', is coupled to the *anode**!!!*...(luckily, this is not actually the case with the Spezial as opposed to the standard 12...see edit below).
  
 So please, folks - *DON'T DO THIS UNTIL CONFIRMED I'M CORRECT...*especially you @DecentLevi, as you showed immediate interest.
  
 EDIT/UPDATE....Glenn has indeed confirmed that the cathode position is the one at the other end of those three arrowed...and happily, even if anyone had already carried out this task, no danger would have ensued as in the 'Spezial', the g2 position is in fact at a different pin to the standard tube, and so there wouldn't actually have been a connection to the anode therefore..._*phew!!*_...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Tracking of my Euforia says:-
> 
> 
> Package type:Priority postal parcel
> ...


 
  
 Wonderful news UT...not long now!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yeah...it's the solid gold I use everywhere...*YOU WISH!!!*





...more like the upgraded transformer, perhaps?...
  
 And don't forget to wash out your ears in readiness....she deserves only the very best conditions for performing, remember?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




......CHEERS!...


----------



## angpsi

Hey @UntilThen, I posted this on the other thread but I'll repost here as a dedication to your fine taste and insatiable involvement for the audiophile pursuit! Perhaps it's no mistake that I found this just yesterday.
  
 No comments here, just dreams!


----------



## UntilThen

Am I going to be knighted?


----------



## UntilThen

H1 I'm getting more than a ear flush. I'm in hospital now having xray blood test ecg. What started as a viral infection now the doctor ordered me to hospital for the full test due to heart palpitations.

I didn't tell the Doc that Euforia is shipping.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1 I'm getting more than a ear flush. I'm in hospital now having xray blood test ecg. What started as a viral infection now the doctor ordered me to hospital for the full test due to heart palpitations.
> 
> I didn't tell the Doc that Euforia is shipping.


 
  
 Oh dear, UT...those palpitations will skyrocket once you fall for her charms...._*you (and your Doctor) have been warned!!*_






...
  
 Hope all is well with your good self however...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Am I going to be knighted?


 

 I hereby dub you Sir UntilThen and henceforth you will rule supreme over Euforia Camelot - well at least within a 10 meter radius of your desk.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
> ...


 

 I was wrong the cathode is actually on the other side of the 3 pins and G1 in the middle.
 Hooking the shield to  the cathode is not the best It should go to a green/yellow wire that is hooked to screw on the back for a ground.
 But it will work hooked to the cathode I have done it with other tubes when I was making adapters and people didn't want a wire.
 So I hooked it to the cathode in the base of the adapter.
 I just figured it could be done with these adapters if you take them apart.
 Maybe these tubes won't oscillate in the Euphoria and will no longer be a problem.


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I was wrong the cathode is actually on the other side of the 3 pins and G1 in the middle.
> Hooking the shield to  the cathode is not the best It should go to a green/yellow wire that is hooked to screw on the back for a ground.
> But it will work hooked to the cathode I have done it with other tubes when I was making adapters and people didn't want a wire.
> So I hooked it to the cathode in the base of the adapter.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the confirmation, Glenn...that inversion factor sure can be a bit of a b**ger lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I remember someone taking their makeshift shield to proper ground, and making it _*worse*_ lol!!?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can only hope others, who have to use the adapters, do indeed have more luck with these Spezials in Euforia...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...shouldn't be too long now before we find out!!
  
 Thanks for your interest in us...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Best, CJ


----------



## mordy

Hi Sir UT,
  
 Wishing you well and hoping that all the tests will come out OK.
  
 BTW, Lukasz knighted me as well when he informed me that my Euforia will be shipped out in the second batch in about two weeks time.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I was wrong the cathode is actually on the other side of the 3 pins and G1 in the middle.
> ...


 
  


hypnos1 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I was wrong the cathode is actually on the other side of the 3 pins and G1 in the middle.
> ...


 

 If these tubes are oscillating in the Elise it can do crazy things and may never get rid of it.
 Even when people get rid of the hum they might be still oscillating at high frequency and it can't be heard.
 It is heard as hum but is oscillating at high frequency.
 And what works on one amp may not work on another of the same amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll have a lot of headphones to try out with Euforia at the meet, besides Utopia and Elear. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/832710/can-con-sydney-australia-7-0-sunday-26-march-2017/60#post_13325518


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  is this the meet you're attending? Looks like an awesome list of gear.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/816392/2017-uk-head-fi-meet-april-2nd-milton-keynes#post_12770741


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> If these tubes are oscillating in the Elise it can do crazy things and may never get rid of it.
> Even when people get rid of the hum they might be still oscillating at high frequency and it can't be heard.
> It is heard as hum but is oscillating at high frequency.
> And what works on one amp may not work on another of the same amp.


 
  
 Yo, Glenn.... triode-strapped pentodes can indeed sometimes come with strings attached - the wonderful C3g being another example, of course! - but when all is well, I think they're very hard to beat, sound wise lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> @hypnos1  is this the meet you're attending? Looks like an awesome list of gear.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/816392/2017-uk-head-fi-meet-april-2nd-milton-keynes#post_12770741


 
  
 That's the one, UT...so I'm really looking forward to seeing just how my own system matches up lol!...will be taking my PowerInspired Mains Regenerator; Sabre 9018-based tube DAC; Beyer T1s; silver interconnects and hi-grade power cords with Wattgate connectors....oh, and nearly forgot...EUFORIA!...complete with (of course!!) mesh plate Valvo EL11s driving EL12 Spezial powers. Am gonna _*knock 'em dead lol!!!*_...or *hope* to, at least!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And I fully expect _*you also*_ to do us proud in Sydney..._*no excuses!!*_





...Speaking of which, I'm now more interested than ever in hearing your impressions of the Utopias - cos' I'm fast going off them already lol!...viz. the number of failed drivers in such a relatively short time (which I find totally unacceptable in cans at that unbelievable price!), and a head-fier selling off his because he'd rather have the bass of the LCD 4 and that the Focals are good "for the highs". The more I think on it, the more I'm loving my T1s LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...hard act to follow IMHO - _especially_ at the price! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!...


----------



## HOWIE13

My spez have been hum/buzz free for about a week now. Very happy the problem seems to be sorted.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi Sir UT,
> 
> Wishing you well and hoping that all the tests will come out OK.
> 
> BTW, Lukasz knighted me as well when he informed me that my Euforia will be shipped out in the second batch in about two weeks time.


 
  
 Congrats Mordy 
  
 Will you sell your Elise eventually?


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> My spez have been hum/buzz free for about a week now. Very happy the problem seems to be sorted.


 
  
 Auto biasing working? My EL12N and EL12 is totally hum free now too. It's the only EL tubes I have now and I'm happy to use it all the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Big advantage of Elise over La Figaro. Elise is so cool and LF is so hot after a few hours of operation.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Haven't decided what to do with the Elise yet - I am very emotionally attached to her.......
  
 I remember a former Elise owner complaining that it was difficult for him to find a buyer for his Elise. Even though we may think otherwise, our universe may not be that big after all.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Auto biasing working? My EL12N and EL12 is totally hum free now too. It's the only EL tubes I have now and I'm happy to use it all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The non-spez EL's are my favourites too. Good to have choices. I copied you the other day and reminded myself what 5998's sounded like, and they were excellent as well-in a different way.
  
 I wonder if there is any other manufacturer that produces amplifiers which handle so many different tube types in their stride.
  
 For instance, I just this morning listened to EL11 drivers and C3g powers in Espressivo-honestly, Espressivo sounds like it should cost several hundred pounds more than it does.
  
 This is the best I've heard Espressivo sound and it's very impressive.


----------



## connieflyer

When I sold mine it took one day here on head-fi to get a response and the sale I don't think that they will be hard to sell


----------



## connieflyer

My Euforia shipped yesterday. Race is on!


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats CF   You may get yours first. Mine is still in Warsaw haha....  or maybe left Warsaw.... which means up in the air somewhere.


----------



## connieflyer

Mine has not shown up on tracking yet so I am sure it is still in Warsaw.  I think I am going to let myself start to get a little excited now.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> My spez have been hum/buzz free for about a week now. Very happy the problem seems to be sorted.


 
  
 That's great news H13...now you can enjoy them _*properly*_ lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and the same goes to you @UntilThen with your 12/12Ns..._*life is good!!*_...(and getting better..._*soon!*_





).
  


howie13 said:


> The non-spez EL's are my favourites too. Good to have choices. I copied you the other day and reminded myself what 5998's sounded like, and they were excellent as well-in a different way.
> 
> I wonder if there is any other manufacturer that produces amplifiers which handle so many different tube types in their stride.
> 
> ...


 
 Sssshhh...don't let F-A hear you lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...
  


connieflyer said:


> My Euforia shipped yesterday. Race is on!


 
  
 Great, cf...but just watch out for UT's _palpitations_ lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(shan't be posting any more "freeze index" moments...litigation culture is too scary!!...unless @pctazhp hasn't hung up his cap completely LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 So who's it gonna be...tortoise or hare?!!...can't wait...


----------



## Frederick Rea

2359glenn said:


> This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
> All exposed shield will have to be covered with heat shrink tubing.
> If you can get inside the adapter the cathode connection could be done inside the adapter.


 
 Have anyone tryed this on yours EL's? Ferrite Isolators. You could read as well http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf. Great results
 This is my main tubes setup


----------



## mordy

Hi FR,
  
 Sounds very interesting and appears simple to apply.
  
 Where do you buy the ferrite isolators and how much do they cost?  What type/size etc to get?


----------



## Frederick Rea

mordy said:


> Hi FR,
> 
> Sounds very interesting and appears simple to apply.
> 
> Where do you buy the ferrite isolators and how much do they cost?  What type/size etc to get?


 
 Ebay or else


----------



## angpsi

frederick rea said:


> Have anyone tryed this on yours EL's? Ferrite Isolators. You could read as well http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf. Great results
> This is my main tubes setup


 

 Damn FR, took you long enough to present us with this! Looks beautiful, and it makes sense. Definitely going to get me a pair! Probably available at a local electronics shop @mordy, but also available on Amazon.
  
 Btw, auto–bias or not, something's begun to work with the EL setup. Perhaps I'm succumbing to peer pressure, but things are looking good! Oddly enough, while you guys started debating about MQA since @UntilThen mentioned my Meridian Explorer 2, I've been spending all my listening sessions on my Hi–Res files inventory!
  
 Perhaps I have a certain feedback redundancy towards how the rest of this lovely crowd progresses over time!


----------



## angpsi

frederick rea said:


>


 
 On a different note, are these MrsX adapters? I really like the black base.


----------



## UntilThen

frederick rea said:


> Have anyone tryed this on yours EL's? Ferrite Isolators. You could read as well http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf. Great results
> This is my main tubes setup


 
  
 Frederick, looking very sexy there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nice picture. No doubt good sound too. 
  
@angpsi , he's using 6F8G tubes and those adapters are different from the ones used for EL12 Spez.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Btw, auto–bias or not, something's begun to work with the EL setup. *Perhaps I'm succumbing to peer pressure, but things are looking good!* Oddly enough, while you guys started debating about MQA since @UntilThen mentioned my Meridian Explorer 2, I've been spending all my listening sessions on my Hi–Res files inventory!
> 
> Perhaps I have a certain feedback redundancy towards how the rest of this lovely crowd progresses over time!


 
  
 You bet. We're watching over you with clubs.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> You bet. We're watching over you with clubs.


 
  
 Sure works quicker than "Cognitive Learning"/"Adaptive Brain Neuroplasticity" etc. etc. lol!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(all newcomers beware!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## mordy

Does anybody know if those ferrite core clip-ons will help for hum when attached to RCA patch cords? If so, what size would be good?
  
 Angpsi - thanks for the Amazon link - I found much less on eBay.
  
 I tried a ground loop hum eliminator but it did absolutely nothing for me - perhaps I have RFI or EMI noise as the cause of my hum?


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> Have anyone tryed this on yours EL's? Ferrite Isolators. You could read as well http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf. Great results
> This is my main tubes setup


 
  
 That would be GREAT news for folks, if it does the same for the 12 Spezials lol!!...fingers crossed...


----------



## Frederick Rea

hypnos1 said:


> That would be GREAT news for folks, if it does the same for the 12 Spezials lol!!...fingers crossed...


 
 I have this for a long time. If the El12 spez problem is only due to interference from the external cable of the anode, it certainly improves and even cancels the hum. I had a 6F8g valve a little wild, (boiling and microphonic) and this completely overrides the problem. It also improved the sssss of female singers. I hope it improves also in your valves. Maybe one day take a dip in the EL11 / 12


----------



## 2359glenn

frederick rea said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > This is a bad drawing maybe I can get a Pic how it is done properly in a couple of days.
> ...


 

 ​That is a great idea especially if the tube is oscillating


----------



## connieflyer

A  piece that has helped to quiet my soul..and bring me peace
  
 
  
 as well as this one.


----------



## connieflyer

Of course then there is this....I don't see how anyone could not stand and watch him play


----------



## HOWIE13

frederick rea said:


> I have this for a long time. If the El12 spez problem is only due to interference from the external cable of the anode, it certainly improves and even cancels the hum. I had a 6F8g valve a little wild, (boiling and microphonic) and this completely overrides the problem. It also improved the sssss of female singers. I hope it improves also in your valves. Maybe one day take a dip in the EL11 / 12


 
 Good idea and thanks for letting us know it's available on eBay. However, could we have a link to the actual product on eBay?
 There is only one on the UK site that I can find and the hole in the middle won't grip the thin orange wire of the adapter as it's meant for an RCA cable not a thin wire-unless you attach it in some way to the thin wire.
 Much appreciate your help.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINDY-Ferrite-Ground-Loop-Isolator-Black-/391711137782?hash=item5b33cd9ff6:geQAAOSwfVpYrJTw


----------



## mordy

Hi Howie13,
  
 Here is a link from angpsi to the UK Amazon site with a large amount of choices and diameters of the ferrite cores:
  
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AFerrite+Core&keywords=Ferrite+Core&ie=UTF8&qid=1489168955&spIA=B01DBA6DAQ,B01E5ALWZW,B01DBA6ENM,B00P0CMKGA
  
 Before I pull the trigger I would like to know of these will help clipped onto RCA patch cords to stop the hum in my Elise set-up - any thoughts?


----------



## Oskari

Also many on ebay. Here's smallish 3.5mm size.

http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_nkw=ferrite+%28clamp%2Cclip%29+3.5mm


----------



## HOWIE13

mordy said:


> Hi Howie13,
> 
> Here is a link from angpsi to the UK Amazon site with a large amount of choices and diameters of the ferrite cores:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, mordy. I missed that link.
  
 I don't know if they will work. I have two wide ones made by TDK which for years I've had at the CD end of my digital coaxial outputs to the DAC.. I must have read somewhere they help but it's so long ago.
  
 I would like to remove the foil from the spez adapter wires if possible, so probably will try a couple and let you know the result. As ever I'm an adventurous sceptic, always willing to try.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> Also many on ebay. Here's smallish 3.5mm size.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_nkw=ferrite+%28clamp%2Cclip%29+3.5mm


 
 Cheers Oskar. Should find something there and from the link mordy gave me.
  
 I'll give them a go. I have stopped the buzz with foil but would prefer the ferrite clamp option if it works.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 One odd thing is the spez never buzz/hum in the driver position, only in the power sockets.
  
 Also, once the noise is eradicated they are quite possibly the quietest tubes I've ever used.


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> Cheers Oskar. Should find something there and from the link mordy gave me.
> 
> I'll give them a go. I have stopped the buzz with foil but would prefer the ferrite clamp option if it works.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really do hope those clamps do the trick...I know I've said this before, but I myself find the Spezials do indeed have the edge over the other 12s. Swapped one out for a standard ST tube last night, and although the differences are subtle, there is a definitely noticeable extra magic (for me) being delivered by the Spez...more sub-bass and subtle overtones. However, I suspect (all!) the rest of the gear really does have to be very good in order to bring out these qualities lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...and yes, wonderful black background...and all from an amp that stays hardly even warm after hours of use - _amazing!!_





 This trafo will last _several_ lifetimes LOL! ...and can't be bad news for the rest of the components either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## HOWIE13

hypnos1 said:


> I really do hope those clamps do the trick...I know I've said this before, but I myself find the Spezials do indeed have the edge over the other 12s. Swapped one out for a standard ST tube last night, and although the differences are subtle, there is a definitely noticeable extra magic (for me) being delivered by the Spez...more sub-bass and subtle overtones. However, I suspect (all!) the rest of the gear really does have to be very good in order to bring out these qualities lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I bought one of those red beam temperature measuring gun things and I'm pleased to report that with all the EL11/12, spez, whatever, Elise's body temperature is always lower than mine.


----------



## Frederick Rea

There are also two other problems with these *adapters*
 1 - Cap from de Anode is _not goog material_ from Mrs Xuling.

  
  
 May change to this

 or even a Crocodile tweezers

  
  
  
 2- Tubes of the rear position - POWERS, with top anode cable could suffer_ interference_ from the RF of the rear Trafo (just behind).
 You could test it with the help of this, position the tube away of the amp
 Mrs Xuling
  
 Clean ALL contacts (including top anode male and female) RCA and so on with Isopropyl Alcohol and a clean contact liquid
  


You could use this liquid with this
 
 Cleaning pipe


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> There are also two other problems with these *adapters*
> 1 - Cap from de Anode is _not goog material_ from Mrs Xuling.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi F R...better quality anode top caps would probably be welcome IMHO. This is a bone of contention amongst other users of tubes with top anode lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 And often, that top anode sure will need a VERY good clean, and possibly treatment to reduce future corrosion...or else checking now and again...(just as with all tube pins!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Frederick Rea

hypnos1 said:


> Hi F R...better quality anode top caps would probably be welcome IMHO. This is a bone of contention amongst other users of tubes with top anode lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The problem with Mrs Xuling's contacts is that they lose their strength with one or two changes. This contact is as important as any electrical contact. Hence, they should be welded in extreme perfection


----------



## connieflyer

For Sunday morning relaxation. For H1  
  
 For UT I select 

  
 And sinnce PCT is so sensitive


----------



## pctazhp

And for @connieflyer, Sunday afternoon entertainment while he awaits his Euforia.


----------



## mordy

I am getting confused about the threads - Euphoric cars??? Pop corn?
  
 Can somebody help me?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> I am getting confused about the threads - Euphoric cars??? Pop corn?
> 
> Can somebody help me?


 

 Help is on the way.


----------



## connieflyer

This will quiet your yearning for the Euforia, patience....


----------



## connieflyer

It is in New York customs!
  
Inbound Into Customs
  

   
 
   Your item is being processed by United States Customs.


  March 12, 2017 , 3:21 pm
 Processed Through Facility 
 ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)


----------



## pctazhp

Patience is good, but there is no room for prudence on this thread.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> It is in New York customs!
> 
> Inbound Into Customs
> 
> ...


 

 You vs @UntilThen.


----------



## aqsw

Just got an email from Lucasz,

Says mine was shipped last week!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Won't be too long I'll congratulations


----------



## UntilThen

Aq your email was delayed due to bad weather. 

Looks like my tortoise will be the slowest.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> It is in New York customs!
> 
> Inbound Into Customs
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, cf....GREAT NEWS!!...let's hope she doesn't take as long again to reach the Wilds of Michigan lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








. Am so glad for you, given the absence of your Elise to ease the wait...so hang in there just a short (hopefully!) while longer...but please be careful with those shaky hands once she's in your grasp!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Just got an email from Lucasz,
> 
> Says mine was shipped last week!!!


 
  
 So yours too should soon be in the hands of the dreaded Customs, aq? Well now...will you or cf be first lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...no bare knuckle fights allowed, I'm afraid!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. Best wishes for a speedy delivery, whatever...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> Aq your email was delayed due to bad weather.
> 
> Looks like my tortoise will be the slowest.


 
  
 What can I say, UT?...better get some hi-octane food out to those poor dolphins FAST lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Praying for a safe journey to you also, mon ami...but methinks the US of A are gonna beat you, alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## DecentLevi

My prediction goes to CF being the first to behold Euforia - outside of the UK anyway. It doesn't take long after clearing SFO or NYC customs. And his is quite well deserved too, being without an amp for such a while


----------



## UntilThen

Never underestimate the tortoise


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer

March 13, 2017 , 7:03 pm

  Arrived at USPS Facility
 METRO, NY 
 
   Your item arrived at our USPS facility in METRO, NY on March 13, 2017 at 7:03 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.


   
 Inbound Into Customs


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 This is the kind of turtle u need......


----------



## angpsi

angpsi said:


> It... works!!!....
> 
> 
> 
> My sincerest gratitude to @Frederick Rea for this is highly acceptable to my taste! Hum be gone!


 

 Just posted on the Elise thread! I'm so happy! I even find the stealthy look very appropriate to the sombre Germans!


----------



## mordy

Hi angpsi,
  
 Very happy to hear that the hum is gone and that it is aesthetically pleasing!.
  
 Looking at those ferrite adapters, is it correct that the diameter of the pass through hole isn't crucial?


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Just posted on the Elise thread! I'm so happy! I even find the stealthy look very appropriate to the sombre Germans!


 
  
 This is indeed wonderful news, angpsi...and yes, mille grazie must go to @Frederick Rea for his suggestion!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 ps. I take it you're still happy with those Spezials lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> (...)
> Looking at those ferrite adapters, is it correct that the diameter of the pass through hole isn't crucial?


 I only found 5mm inner diameter clips readily available at the shop; so I just used some of the aluminum foil to create a tight grip.


----------



## angpsi

hypnos1 said:


> ps. I take it you're still happy with those Spezials lol?!  ...


 didn't get a lot of listening done today, but based on my long session the other day I 'd say yes, they sound wonderful!  I'm even waiting for a substitute TFK EL12st for my buzzing one to check the EL12spez/12st version as well!


----------



## mordy

HI CF,
  
 Maybe the tortoise will win? We have a big snow storm in New York and all the airports are closed. There is 14" of snow outside and it is still coming down.


----------



## mordy

Hi angpsi,
  
 Oh yes, that foil comes in handy! Thanks for clarifying - now I need to know if those ferrite adapters work on patch cables.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> HI CF,
> 
> Maybe the tortoise will win? We have a big snow storm in New York and all the airports are closed. There is 14" of snow outside and it is still coming down.


 
  
 Am having nightmares worrying about your amps, caught up in such horrendous weather 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - you guys can look after yourselves lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Euforia needs/deserves lots of TLC...so fingers crossed for y'all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## HOWIE13

@Frederick Rea
  
 Thank you and congratulations for solving the spez buzz problem by suggesting these magic ferrite cylinders. Now the most silent tubes ever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks also @angpsi and @hypnos1 for their pioneering skills.
  
 These spez are for me the best of power tubes for Elise, and in dual mode are even better, with improved sound-stage and dynamics, even compared to the already excellent single spez tube sound.
  
 As for drivers, well they bring out the best characteristics of whatever you use- EL11, C3g, lots of different Sylvanias, my favourite are Bad Boys, etc, etc.
  
 Here's just a couple: the ubiquitous EL3N and the Visseaux 6J5's, I had forgotten how good these sound. @Audict123, thanks for recommending these.


----------



## pctazhp

@angpsi. Very glad you now have a solution. And for me??? Well, all I have to do is pay $375 for the tubes from a seller who is sick of discussing test results. Pay $37 for  adapters that will probably arrive here around Christmas time, and shell out additional $5.89 for Ferrite filter, and join the hum/dead lottery. And by the time I get all that together we will be on to some new wonder-
 tube and EL tubes will be so March 2017 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Why do I subject myself to such self-abuse by continuing to read EL posts? Flying turtles and seagul/porpoises are much more fun and cheaper.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-tubes-Telefunken-EL12-sp-spez-1956-72-3-matched-pair-/112294825299?hash=item1a254b0d53:g:2HAAAOSwUKxYmecA


----------



## UntilThen

Hi everyone ! Glad to read of everyone's utopia moments with their Elise and tubes. I've no doubt you are enjoying yourselves very much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for me, I've been mesmerised for 2 days by my 'odd ball', East German and Russian EF86 with Chatham 6520. Totally speechless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've haven't touch my EL tubes for 2 days haha.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Hi everyone ! Glad to read of everyone's utopia moments with their Elise and tubes. I've no doubt you are enjoying yourselves very much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Now you didn't think you would get away with that short post did you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've been eagerly awaiting your appraisal of these tubes. Have you tried them with any other power tubes, as Chatham 6520 is a pretty rare and expensive bird?
  
 Also how did you find the EF80?


----------



## connieflyer

Weather here is nasty as well, strong winds and blowing snow -9 C temps. At this rate, if it does show up, I may not open the door to receive it! Yea right!  H13 where did you get the 6j5 adapters? I know I liked them very much in the Ember.


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Now you didn't think you would get away with that short post did you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A more detailed post will have to wait till this evening when I'm back from work.   Any conventional power tubes will do. Both EF80 and EF86 worked very well. Clean and detailed sound with a touch of fullness and quality bass that is the trademark of pentodes driven as strapped triodes.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Weather here is nasty as well, strong winds and blowing snow -9 C temps. At this rate, if it does show up, I may not open the door to receive it! Yea right!  H13 where did you get the 6j5 adapters? I know I liked them very much in the Ember.


 
  You can use ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters for 6J5 tubes. I had forgotten how visceral the Visseaux 6J5 bass is. Very impressive in Elise.
  
 PS. Sorry I've edited this post as many times as there are words. I'm over excited about getting rid of the spez buzz.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> A more detailed post will have to wait till this evening when I'm back from work.   Any conventional power tubes will do. Both EF80 and EF86 worked very well. Clean and detailed sound with a touch of fullness and quality bass that is the trademark of pentodes driven as strapped triodes.


 
 WORK-at a time like this, when the world is waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 Okay-I'll take a sedative then.


----------



## connieflyer

thanks H13 might pick up a pair.


----------



## connieflyer

Used to use the dual 6j5 to 6sn7 adapter with Ember. Tried the 6c5, 6j5 and 6l5 and of the three liked the 6l5 best.


----------



## aqsw

Customs released the package in Toronto. Could have it tomorrow!!


----------



## connieflyer

Just a little info on amazon. Last month they had the Beyer T1 V1 for $500 I ordered one, got confirmation of sale, and then nothing for two days. Went on line and saw my order was cancelled. They would not tell me why. Offered to send a pair next day air but when I checked price, it was now $700 so did not order. Got the answer from customer service today that when you buy from a third party seller, they can change the price when stock is low to maximize profit. Which is what they did. They had two for sale, someone else bought one, I bought the last one. After the cancellation I saw the seller had the original 2 pair back for sale at the $700 price. Told them I would not buy from third party sellers anymore. Can you imagine going into hardware store buying a shovel for $10  dollars only to be told at checkout that because it was last one it was now $15 .  Told them it was bait and switch but they said they could do nothing, I told them they could change their policy, that would change it. No comment.  Buyer beware!


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> Used to use the dual 6j5 to 6sn7 adapter with Ember. Tried the 6c5, 6j5 and 6l5 and of the three liked the 6l5 best.


 
 Yes I remember the 6L5 was very euphonic and had a slightly warmer sound.
  
 I would imagine the 6L5 would work with the ECC31 adapter too.
  
 Audict123 recently described using dual 6J5's as drivers in Elise but those dual adapters we used barely fit as they are slightly too large for Elise. 
 I may be able to rotate them to get them in and then try dual 6J5's but the single ones sound just fine anyway.
  
 Audict123 neatly added his own sockets to Elise to overcome this problem.


----------



## connieflyer

Congrats aqsw, mine still in NYC.  Be a few days for me.


----------



## UntilThen

My Euforia is in the Indian ocean.


----------



## aqsw

Its crazy how mine cleared canadian customs immediately. Another member took over a month. Im expecting Thursday. As long as I have it for the weekend I will be very happy.
Taking the worked in tubes from the Elise and putting them in the Euforia. The Elise will have to do the dirty work and wear in sone nos EL12Ns and El3Ns.


----------



## connieflyer

UT I am so sorry to hear your amp is in the ocean.  Hopefully, Lukasz wrapped it well, and they will be able to paddle it to shore soon!


----------



## connieflyer

Mine will probably not move for awhile, all semi trailers have been ordered off the major highways in New York. Weather will probably last a few days.


----------



## connieflyer

I am very impressed with the new Euforia, even mother nature could not stop her, she is on the move again!
  
  
 Date & Time

  Status of Item
 Location
 March 14, 2017 , 7:03 pm
 In Transit to Destination
  
 
   The item is currently in transit to the destination as of March 14, 2017 at 7:03 pm.


----------



## DecentLevi

howie13 said:


> @Frederick Rea
> 
> Thank you and congratulations for solving the spez buzz problem by suggesting these magic ferrite cylinders. Now the most silent tubes ever.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This might be a bit of a shocker coming from me - but I'm wondering if such extravagant setups may not be necessary to get excellent results out of the Euforia... While I have no doubt this should up the fidelity somewhat on the Elise, I'm hoping it's not necessary to go to such great heights / expenses _(combo shown goes for approx. $1,000 nowadays)_ to get this kind of - or even better sound out of the E*ufo*ria. It has alien technology anyway, LOL


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> This might be a bit of a shocker coming from me - but I'm wondering if such extravagant setups may not be necessary to get excellent results out of the Euforia... While I have no doubt this should up the fidelity somewhat on the Elise, I'm hoping it's not necessary to go to such great heights / expenses _(combo shown goes for approx. $1,000 nowadays)_ to get this kind of - or even better sound out of the E*ufo*ria. It as alien technology anyway, LOL


 
 I would hope you are correct about Euforia not requiring such set-ups to sound brilliant because for a start it's more expensive than Elise and those Visseaux are very expensive nowadays, not to mention the ever burgeoning cost of the EL12/spez.
  
 There are times, much to my wife's chagrin, that I'm very happy I'm a hoarder. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, Euforia, by all accounts, has greater dynamics and clarity than the more 'conventional', shall we say, Elise set-ups and therefore would maybe sound a bit 'over the top' with these more exotic arrangements that, for me, suit Elise, -but we shall see-all in good time.
 We won't have to speculate about Euforia for much longer, LOL.


----------



## UntilThen

An inner voice tells me that Euforia will even sound good tubeless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now where is my Euforia !!! 
  
@aqsw  did you hijack my amp???


----------



## connieflyer

Looking through old photos last night, and ran across my old "office" Six tons of electronic equipment and not a single transistor in the bunch! Sweet analog goodness. You should have seen my tube caddy! Everything from small signal tubes to magnetrons!  Loved it!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Customs released the package in Toronto. Could have it tomorrow!!


 
  
 Looks like you will indeed be first past the post, aq...such a responsibility lol!!...and _honour?!!!_








...(I'm all aquiver!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


connieflyer said:


> *I am very impressed with the new Euforia, even mother nature could not stop her*, she is on the move again!
> 
> 
> Date & Time
> ...


 
  
 Hey cf....I keep telling folks she's something _*super-special lol!!*_





...(let's just hope that truck is like something out of "Ice Road Truckers"...with Alex D behind the wheel lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
  


decentlevi said:


> This might be a bit of a shocker coming from me - but I'm wondering if such extravagant setups may not be necessary to get excellent results out of the Euforia... While I have no doubt this should up the fidelity somewhat on the Elise, I'm hoping it's not necessary to go to such great heights / expenses _(combo shown goes for approx. $1,000 nowadays)_ to get this kind of - or even better sound out of the E*ufo*ria. It has alien technology anyway, LOL


 
  
 Fear not DL....the single powers are more than enough in Euforia, *believe me lol!!*







  


howie13 said:


> I would hope you are correct about Euforia not requiring such set-ups to sound brilliant because for a start it's more expensive than Elise and those Visseaux are very expensive nowadays, not to mention the ever burgeoning cost of the EL12/spez.
> 
> There are times, much to my wife's chagrin, that I'm very happy I'm a hoarder.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi H13...I do indeed suspect that the single powers will be _*more than enough*_ lol - but I'm sure that doubling up just _might_ bring a little extra..._perhaps!_...but certainly isn't _necessary_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 One thing has me wondering about the double setup however - in the unlikely (but always _possible!)_ event of one tube shorting badly, as they are connected in parallell in the amp, wouldn't the good tube also suffer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Could well be wrong, but something to look into closely, methinks?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And yes...hopefully ALL speculation will soon be over - the wait is just killing me lol!!


----------



## connieflyer

While waiting for Euforia, I thought I would help you pass the time and show you where this all started. Very interesting, galery 6 is the vacuum tube section. Love the antique phonographs, (similar to the one @UntilThen has!) and my favorite, the crystal radio. That is what started me off in electronics, the crystal radio my dad got me for a birthday back in the 1950's, what a wonder, a coil of wire around a cardboard tube, long wire antenae and wire to a grounded water pipe, and a small headset. Tuning by sliding a wire down the coil of wire. Too cool.
http://www.museumofyesterday.org/museum/page2.htm


----------



## UntilThen

Euforia is in Sydney....

Depending on how quickly it's cleared, I could be getting it tomorrow.

The tortoise might still win the race.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Love the antique phonographs, (similar to the one @UntilThen has!).


 
  
 Are you calling my gear antique? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll show you young man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They are moving my Euforia on the last leg of the journey.


----------



## connieflyer

Outstanding your wait will soon be over and then you'll have three amps to decide what to use I feel so bad for you, NOT!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Outstanding your wait will soon be over and then you'll have three amps to decide what to use I feel so bad for you, NOT!!


 
  
 Ah there will never be 3 amps when Euforia arrives. It will only be Euforia and Elise hooked up to my DAC. First I'll listen to Euforia unassisted. I want to find out how much different it is to Elise. Then if I need to, I'll do A/Bs with Elise. I'll be really surprised if Euforia is really a few leagues above Elise... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  because Elise with the tubes that I'm running with now is just amazing.
  
 It (Elise) has what you call PRAT - Pace rhythm and timing and that is the catalyst for rapid toe tapping and body shaking.


----------



## connieflyer

Soooooo that is what I am feeling, PRAT when my steak comes out and the server is near!  So glad to put a name to the feeling!


----------



## connieflyer

A little precision drumming, excellence in  precision like Euforia.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> A little precision drumming, excellence in  precision like Euforia.




 The tattoo is a wonderful event within the awesome surroundings of Edinburgh Castle-not to mention the city itself. 
 Thanks for that nice memory, CF.


----------



## connieflyer

One of my top three n my bucket list, to watch the tattoo in person.  My mother got me started watching these on the BBC years ago. Anytime I hear Scotland the Brave on pipes and drums, it stirs my blood. My dad's family was from Scotland and I still have stirrings to visit.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Ah there will never be 3 amps when Euforia arrives. It will only be Euforia and Elise hooked up to my DAC. First I'll listen to Euforia unassisted. I want to find out how much different it is to Elise. Then if I need to, I'll do A/Bs with Elise. I'll be really surprised if Euforia is really a few leagues above Elise...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   Won't be long before you will be shaking and toe tapping to all those lovely tubes in Euforia too.


----------



## connieflyer

I can only hope! Should not be too long now.


----------



## HOWIE13

connieflyer said:


> I can only hope! Should not be too long now.


 
 I'm trying not to be envious.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Euforia is in Sydney....
> 
> Depending on how quickly it's cleared, I could be getting it tomorrow.
> 
> The tortoise might still win the race.


 
  
 UNBELIEVABLE lol!...looks like that tortoise did have wings after all!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but could well be a photo finish..._hint, hint!!_





)...
  


untilthen said:


> Ah there will never be 3 amps when Euforia arrives. It will only be Euforia and Elise hooked up to my DAC. First I'll listen to Euforia unassisted. I want to find out how much different it is to Elise. Then if I need to, I'll do A/Bs with Elise. I'll be really surprised if Euforia is really a few leagues above Elise...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Euforia has what you call PRAT+++!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(Reckon this new term will have to go in the head-fi Glossary of terms LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


connieflyer said:


> One of my top three n my bucket list, to watch the tattoo in person.  My mother got me started watching these on the BBC years ago. Anytime I hear Scotland the Brave on pipes and drums, it stirs my blood. My dad's family was from Scotland and I still have stirrings to visit.


 
  
 Scottish blood, cf?...that answers *a lot* lol!! ...(always suspected there was a possible Wallace connection somewhere in this thread...or is that H13?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  


howie13 said:


> I'm trying not to be envious.


 
  
 Not very convincing, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  
 Anyway folks, while some of you are here, just thought you might (?!) like to know the latest developments in my latest EL12 Spezial (TFKs) saga...'cos a bloomin' saga it is indeed lol!
  
 More than any other tube _*ever*_ have I never been so frustrated/misled/confused/exasperated...but eventually totally amazed and enchanted, not to mention educated and humbled by : to cut a long(ish) story short, 3 days after firmly believing I'd made the biggest mistake ever in my tube purchases, my perseverance is being rewarded *BIG* time LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 They have gone from being so lacking in power as to be almost unusable (clipping/distorting at volume setting 8-9 of 20) to matching my other strong tubes at setting 4 of 20!! I have never experienced anything like this before, nor ever heard of this phenomenon to *this* extent.
  
 And so - along with some interesting advice from the vendor - I hereby offer a few pointers that may just save others interested in these EL12 Spezials a whole pile of anguish (and possible embarrassment!)....ie :
  
            *A SURVIVAL GUIDE TO THE EL12 SPEZIAL!*
  
 1. Whether used or NOS, try to get confirmation that the plate emission value is at least 85% of what should be the _actual_ 100% figure for the test machine used (as per HOWIE13). *DO NOT* rely purely on "Gut" or "Sehr Gut" statements for example, without any other figures quoted.
  
 2. If hum/distortion is immediatley present (but see #3), the best solution now appears to be the use of ferrite chokes over the anode wire as mentioned here recently, and over at the Elise (Impressions) thread.
  
 3. On first use, if the power output seems very low - eg. still low at 9 to10 o'clock, _*Don't panic and don't turn up the volume*_...this will only lead to clipping/distortion that will worsen oscillation problems. Don't even think of listening just yet - go to point #4!
  
 4. Continue a regime of 4 to 5 hours burn-in, then rest (everything switched off!) for another few hours (my vendor advised 30 to 50 hours, but I found several overnight rests sufficient)...repeat as necessary. You should find the output gradually increasing - my NOS tubes have taken *3 days *to reach proper output level (for me, 8 to 9 o'clock with most tracks). To add to the confusion, one tube was quite lower than the other, and has needed these 3+ days of _*continued *_regimen to finally (almost, not yet 100%) catch up lol!!
  
 5. Something else I noticed with these particular samples is that the heaters take a _*long*_ time to light up, whereas my other 2 tubes begin to glow (but only slightly lol!) much quicker. This has prompted me to heed more closely the general advice to _*NOT*_ turn up the volume until the heaters have been on for a while, so as to heat the cathode properly...I reckon a minute is a good min. figure. This is _*especially*_ a good idea for these triode-strapped pentodes, as they can be more prone to the dreaded internal "oscillation".
  
 Even if the tubes are not initially as dire in the output stakes as my own ones, I think it might still be a good idea to follow this regimen..._*just in case lol!*_  I personally feel that the less we push these tubes especially to clipping/distortion level, the better it will be for their long-term health! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Mine are now performing - and _*sounding*_ - *SO* good I can only say _*thank Heavens*_ I didn't dismiss as flannel my vendor's continued suggestion to "check the anode/cathode/grid voltages" etc. etc., and finally that "30 to 50 hours' rest" due to "oscillation"!!!
  
 Hopefully this may be of help to at least _someone_ else ...'cos I'd hate anyone else to be so close to giving up on these tubes as I (foolishly!) was lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> 3. On first use, if the power output seems very low - eg. still low at 9 to10 o'clock, _*Don't panic and don't turn up the volume*_...this will only lead to clipping/distortion that will worsen oscillation problems. Don't even think of listening just yet - go to point #4!
> 
> 4. Continue a regime of 4 to 5 hours burn-in, then rest (everything switched off!) for another few hours (my vendor advised 30 to 50 hours, but I found several overnight rests sufficient)...repeat as necessary. You should find the output gradually increasing - my NOS tubes have taken *3 days *to reach proper output level (for me, 8 to 9 o'clock with most tracks). To add to the confusion, one tube was quite lower than the other, and has needed these 3+ days of _*continued *_regimen to finally (almost, not yet 100%) catch up lol!!


 
  
 Ha ! .... something I experience with EF86 tubes too. See my recent post on the other Elise impressions thread.
  
 I think Elise auto biasing is working overtime to knock some sense into these pentodes used as strapped triodes but oh when they settle in, they do sound glorious.
  
 And... it looks like a photo finish as to who gets Euforia in their hands first. Any bets?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Euforia has what you call PRAT+++!!!...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 PRAT or BRAT we will soon find out. If it's the latter, all of us will be chasing you across the Thames River.


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1
  
 Appreciate your experience and advice H1.
  
 Personally I didn't notice the volume low when I first started to use them. Maybe they were not in as new a condition as yours, but most likely because I was using them for a week when because of all the buzz and hum it was impossible to hear the music properly.  You had your excellent personally manufactured, well shielded adapters from the outset.
  
 By the time I started using the Ferrite chokes to kill all the hum and buzz they had probably settled down. 
  
 They are indeed amazing tubes and what I really appreciate is the way they synergise so effortlessly with whatever drivers you wish to use.


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Ha ! .... something I experience with EF86 tubes too. See my recent post on the other Elise impressions thread.
> 
> I think Elise auto biasing is working overtime to knock some sense into these pentodes used as strapped triodes but oh when they settle in, they do sound glorious.
> 
> And... it looks like a photo finish as to who gets Euforia in their hands first. Any bets?


 
 What's really clever is the way Elise and Euforia immediately remember the auto bias setting even if you change tube types for a while. There's no re-learning curve required.


----------



## connieflyer

Old age is such a wonderful thing. It helps me remember all the things I forgot. case in point, ferite chokes. after hearing about the use of these, I had that aha moment when I realized we used these quite a bit in the service. Had several pairs in my tool kit. In fact, if you are old enough, to remember the old vga monitors, they all had large ferrite chokes on the end of the power cord.  So easy to forget. And H1, you may of course, refer to me as William Wallace Jr. if you like, Dad would be proud! Great info you shared with us. Just looked on the German Ebay site and see that the el12 spez are listed about 50-60 dollars a tube more than the el12. Are they really worth that much more? Does anyone have a supplier that is a little more reasonable?$130 a tube is a bit much. Thanks for your input, and H1, you do not have to bow in prezence, I accept you as a co-equal, kind of like a younger me!


----------



## aqsw

The race is still on. Did NOT receive mine today!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry to hear that aq, I checked mine a while ago and still in transit. No  scan since it left NYC.  Should be in Michigan later today, then another day to sort and deliver.  Looking for tubes on Wege hi fi now better prices.


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Sorry to hear that aq, I checked mine a while ago and still in transit. No  scan since it left NYC.  Should be in Michigan later today, then another day to sort and deliver.  Looking for tubes on Wege hi fi now better prices.



 


Come on now CF, you are not sorry. You want yours first!!

Me too!!


----------



## aqsw

Returned my server, could not justify the usage I was going to get out of it. I was having trouble with the DAC drivers with windows 10, and just decided to 
return it. It's on the slow boat to China return. I still like the Musical Paradise stuff, but I think I will stay with tube amps and speakers. This computer stuff is a little too technical for me, although I handled it well with Windows 7. The Hegel DAC loaded well with Windows 10, but the Space Tech didn't, although Space Tech says it's drivers are Windows 10 compatible.

Oh well, live and learn.


----------



## connieflyer

I have waited this long, no big deal,(okay, it is!) but I am supposed to be the adult in the room, sometimes it does not work! I have some el11 and el12n tubes and wondered if it was worth the extra for the el12 spez and adapters over what I have. Not sure if $250 dollars more for spez will cut it.  Suppose I better wait until after I have Euforia in hand and see if I like it or not.  I bought a bunch of tubes before the Elise arrived, and by time it got here, most of the tubes I bought were superceded by better finds. I guess I just don't want to miss out on the spez before the supply drys up.  Hope you get yours tomorrow, hope they don't lose it down on the Queens Quay!


----------



## aqsw

Hopefully, it will be a three way tie!!!


----------



## connieflyer

One thing we should all be careful about and that is whose advice we take, case in point.............


----------



## hypnos1

howie13 said:


> What's really clever is the way Elise and Euforia immediately remember the auto bias setting even if you change tube types for a while. There's no re-learning curve required.


 
  
 Well, H13...I always have believed there is indeed a wee Elf/Goblin/Fairy inside lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


untilthen said:


> PRAT or BRAT we will soon find out. If it's the latter, all of us will be chasing you across the Thames River.


 
  
 Aaahhh, UT...even if _BRAT - _remember John McEnroe?...need I say more lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 And if you do come chasing, you'd better not come in a row boat...you might just have a job keeping up with.....   :    
  

  










  


connieflyer said:


> Old age is such a wonderful thing. It helps me remember all the things I forgot. case in point, ferite chokes. after hearing about the use of these, I had that aha moment when I realized we used these quite a bit in the service. Had several pairs in my tool kit. In fact, if you are old enough, to remember the old vga monitors, they all had large ferrite chokes on the end of the power cord.  So easy to forget. And H1, you may of course, refer to me as William Wallace Jr. if you like, Dad would be proud! Great info you shared with us. Just looked on the German Ebay site and see that the el12 spez are listed about 50-60 dollars a tube more than the el12. Are they really worth that much more? Does anyone have a supplier that is a little more reasonable?$130 a tube is a bit much. Thanks for your input, and H1, you do not have to bow in prezence, I accept you as a co-equal, kind of like a younger me!


 
  
 Hi Wallace Jr....there are occasional bargains about, mon ami - those (stress-inducing!) NOS TFKs I got for $100 the pair (incl. shipping!). But I suspect such steals will not come along very often now...and if they do, you'll sure have to be quick off the mark lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(patience and perseverance do often pay dividends though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...),
  
 I have to admit I would need to think twice, or _thrice _before paying the usual high prices however! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hmmm, cf...I've a feeling there's more French, William the Conqueror blood in my veins than Highland Scots, so there could just be a bit of a clash here somewhere....but I'm sure we can work it out lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(just so long as you give Euforia 11 out of 10!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


aqsw said:


> Hopefully, it will be a three way tie!!!


 
  
 Hey aq, this is all too much for poor ol' me - at my stage of life I need everything just _*one*_ at a time lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hopefully, it will be a three way tie!!!




Lukasz timed it for a three way delivery at the same time.


----------



## Frederick Rea

hypnos1 said:


> UNBELIEVABLE lol!...looks like that tortoise did have wings after all!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's the exact way we "wake up" an old battery called cycling. This "wake up" the tube and biasing with the system


----------



## DecentLevi

@hypnos1 those are some very good points that should be helpful to new owners of the EL12 Spez tubes.
  
 But in my case, it would seem I was very fortunate. First, I got my pair of EL12 Spez (Telefunken) for only $105 after talking the seller down just a little from about $120. Even though there were no test readings at all, I though I'd give these a shot with the good price, and it did say they were "tested with excellent results". Also these were not a completely matched pair, having slightly different logo print size.
  
 After successfully being able to completely and totally eliminate the buzz that was once horrendously loud (thanks to the help of the simple and effective tin foil + external wire solution of a few folks on the Elise thread), I was left with absolute fidelity of a very fine class - clarity, realism, harmonics, etc. that surpassed all of other tubes; though I must still profess that the marvelous prowess of the Valvo EL12 did come close to the EL12 Spez. After extended use on multiple headphones and a vast variety of audio tracks_ (mind you I listen to blissful "noise" excursions as much as to 'music' so I don't refer to them all "songs")_... I have affirmed the above uncanny aptitude of these tubes, and discern absolutely 0 variation between the two tubes in any aspect, even though they're not perfectly matched and could have been made as much as years apart. 
  
 This is regarding my use of EL12 Spez as power tubes, and I had never experienced any sort of low gain, clipping or distortion from these tubes - except before applying my current hum solution. Though I will take CJ's advise to let them warm up at least a minute before usage.
  
 Also I should mention that to me anyway, the EL12 Spez tubes are moderately bright and borderlining clinical, so I have to swap them for darker tubes with bright recordings. And in my case, I was also lucky that "tested with excellent results" truly did mean just that


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I feel it very apt to share a couple noise works with you folks. Here are two noise tracks that I find tranquil, and on my system I'm experiencing uncanny realism and 'out of your head' sound. *Here* and *here* are the links.
 Feel free to stream or download these (free public use). I think you may be taken aback with the enjoyment that can be had from these sort of soundscapes.
  
 PS- in case anyone on the sidelines is reading, the above mentioned experience with my EL12 Spez were used with the Elise amp. It would seem though that up to 3 first people could have their Euforia by tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

Nope I didn't get my Euforia today. It's still at Austpost parcel centre. So it's Monday for me.


----------



## HOWIE13

@DecentLevi
  
 You could try the ferrite chokes and remove the kitchen foil, except to fill the space in the hole within the choke to give a nice tight fit around the wire.
  
 Also, the brightness/darkness of the ultimate sound will depend just as much on the drivers you use. If you leave the spez as powers, where they do a wonderful job,-powerful sound, capacious stage, black background etc,etc, you could just put in a warmer driver for your brighter recordings.  That's what I do now -then you only need to roll in the front two sockets.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Nope I didn't get my Euforia today. It's still at Austpost parcel centre. So it's Monday for me.


 
  
 That is SAD, UT...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> That is SAD, UT...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes Howie that was the first thing I tried, but even with my 6SN7's and EL3N's as drivers, the EL12 Spez were still too dominantly bright - for some recordings anyway.


----------



## connieflyer

Well the Euforia is so powerful, it overflew the Metro Detroit area and went  a couple of hours west of here. So, they have to backtract, probably two days as it will go east of here before going the correct location. Government waste as usual.  It is almost like it is homing in on it's target instead going directly to it. Probably be monday at least now.  What you going to do. Perhaps UT has a few shots left over I could have! Looks like it is up to you aq


----------



## UntilThen

Carrier pigeons overshot your home? They aren't paid their proper wages.


----------



## connieflyer

They did overshoot, but I think they stopped by your place and had a few snorts, making their homing abilities shall we say less than ideal!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> They did overshoot, but I think they stopped by your place and had a few snorts, making their homing abilities shall we say less than ideal!


 

 Hahaha if they came here, they would have become pigeon herbal soup.


----------



## aqsw

Euforia has arrived!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Carrier pigeons overshot your home? They aren't paid their proper wages.


 
  
  


connieflyer said:


> They did overshoot, but I think they stopped by your place and had a few snorts, making their homing abilities shall we say less than ideal!


 
  
 You guys are just _*killing *_me, lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...and hey, cf...one of those barmy birds wasn't called *MARTHA* at all? - certainly hope not, or else UT could well be spot on LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (And you do realise y'all have wrecked my weekend, unless @aqsw can save the day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...er, scrub that - I'm still floating on Cloud 9 with how the 2 TFK Spezials are performing now, given my early angst!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 That sure was a strange coincidence UT, re. your own findings of the need for extra "priming" of those EF86s, as with my NOS Spezials. As I mentioned, I personally have never encountered this requirement to such a dramatic degree lol!
  
 And thanks to all folks' comments on my "Survival Guide". Should also have mentioned that my vendor echoed our own findings on these (and similar EL tubes) concerning the need for _*long*_ burn-in...he himself quoted 200 hours! At this still relatively early stage therefore for my NOS tubes, there is just a hint of @DecentLevi's "brightness/almost clinical" sound, but which is not so noticeable in my used tubes however. And you know what?...in some tracks this "not yet matured" sound is actually very appealing! - more crispness/sparkle/air 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But only for short periods alas...all in all I (and my ears!) still prefer the sweeter, more polished sound that usually comes with further burn-in. But let's not forget these things will vary a good deal according to the rest of one's equipment...


----------



## aqsw

Didnt ask for any duties or taxes either


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Euforia has arrived!


 
  
 So the pigeons went to your home !
  
 Alright do a real time live unboxing and the first song on Euforia now !


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Euforia has arrived!


 
  
*WONDERFUL NEWS*, aq...you have now wrecked at least two other folks' weekend lol...(no matter _what_ they say!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 And no extra charges?...can it get any better? - _*You bet, LOL!!!*_...very soon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(there'll be no sleep for you tonight, methinks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## aqsw

Euforia is a tad bigger


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Euforia is a tad bigger


 
  
 OMG you put it on top of your washing machine.


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> Euforia is a tad bigger


 

 Congratulations)))
  
 Just want everyone to know I'm watching you and all your silliness.


----------



## aqsw

First thing I notice is no distortion at high volume with the T1s or Ethers. This was always a problem with.my Elise. One song in and I'm happy 
With the purchase. Definate step up. Irish Heartbeat by Van Morrison and Mark Knoffler is a song I love to use and it sounds spectacular. Using El12N powers and El3N drivers. 
Going to be a long day wearing headphones!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Congratulations)))
> 
> Just want everyone to know I'm watching you and all your silliness.


 
  
 Aaww...don't spoil our fun, pct!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(do you have a revised estimated delivery date at all? - don't want you falling too far behind lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> First thing I notice is no distortion at high volume with the T1s or Ethers. This was always a problem with.my Elise. One song in and I'm happy
> With the purchase. Definate step up. Irish Heartbeat by Van Morrison and Mark Knoffler is a song I love to use and it sounds spectacular. Using El12N powers and El3N drivers.
> Going to be a long day wearing headphones!


 
  
 This is great news also..._*PHEW!!!*_...and even before she's had any chance to really warm up/burn in/bias for the ELs etc. etc. lol...amazing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a day/evening/night ahead of you....GOOD LUCK!!...


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> First thing I notice is no distortion at high volume with the T1s or Ethers. This was always a problem with.my Elise. One song in and I'm happy
> With the purchase. Definate step up. Irish Heartbeat by Van Morrison and Mark Knoffler is a song I love to use and it sounds spectacular. Using El12N powers and El3N drivers.
> Going to be a long day wearing headphones!


 
 Amazing. Perhaps the Tung Sol 5998 will sound good now on your Euforia if you hadn't sold it. !
  
 Did notice that there's more air vents on top. The metal logo is now smaller and round. The volume knob seems indent? Transformer cover edges seems more rounded and smooth. I like the sockets and the surrounds. 
  
 Any changes behind and bottom?


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations AQ you are now the official winner of the first Euphoria amplifier sweepstakes. From what I understand H1 will be sending you a whole package of thousand dollar bills because you were the first one to receive the amplifier. Now don't quote me on that but I'm sure he'll make good on it. And as for having the amplifier on the washing machine that must be why you get such clean sound out of it. All the best


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Aaww...don't spoil our fun, pct!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Won't try to spoil it. Your fun is my fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will send FA an email over the weekend. Been busy dealing with my wife's defective iPhone 6S+ and trying to remember what a lawyer does since my retirement has been delayed. But all is great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also now I can order CF's magic power cord. More fun than any man should be blessed with.


----------



## aqsw

Rear is the same. White LED. I like the blue better, but thats minor


----------



## aqsw

Im starting to really favor the T1s over the Ethers.


----------



## aqsw

It's funny how when I got the Elise I heard things I never heard in songs before. Deja Vu all over again.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Im starting to really favor the T1s over the Ethers.


 
  
 Why am I not surprised lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... (I personally can't begin to understand how the $4000 Utopias, for example, could _*ever*_ be _*that*_ much better...in our Euforias at least lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


aqsw said:


> It's funny how when I got the Elise I heard things I never heard in songs before. Deja Vu all over again.


 
  
 That's what I've been wrestling (happily!) with since day 1, aq...and more and more so with each week that has passed since I got her - _*you ain't seen (heard!) nothin' yet, lol!!*_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am *so* glad those "niggles" with your Elise are now totally absent in your new baby...you have indeed made my weekend already, mon ami! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And now, all I can say is..._*come on, @UntilThen and @connieflyer...*_pull your fingers out!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...or else, _*shoot the Postman/Pigeon/Whatever, lol!!*_





...
  
 Actually....come to think of it, surely there's someone else on the verge of famedom?..._*who, and where are you?!!!*_








...CHEERS TO YOU ALL!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I am not shooting at anything for fear it could be carrying Euforia. AQ have you tried stock tubes? Still waiting for more info, not that we expect a negative reply,but are curious anyways. Glad you have received her and are enjoying the T1's.  I thought you might like them once you had tried them for awhile. Check around the house every now and then and make sure PCT is not sneaking around trying to "borrow" your Euforia until his gets here.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> It's funny how when I got the Elise I heard things I never heard in songs before. Deja Vu all over again.


 
  
 Envy doesn't describe how I feel right now. I have to be content with a weekend of plain Jane... I mean Elise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  while my Euforia is sitting in a parcel centre and missing the 48 hours of crucial burn in. 
  
 BUT the sound I'm getting now is really wonderful. These EF86s are making me forget about my EL12N and EL12 ...... will spin in the EL tubes again later.


----------



## HPLobster

aqsw said:


> Euforia has arrived!


 
  
 subbed


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> It's funny how when I got the Elise I heard things I never heard in songs before. Deja Vu all over again.


 
  
 So AQ, what sound characteristics stood out most for you when listening with Euforia?


----------



## connieflyer

Well I guess I can figure it won't be today for amp, Spring in Michigan has struck again, two hours so far and no let up....


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I am not shooting at anything for fear it could be carrying Euforia. AQ have you tried stock tubes? Still waiting for more info, not that we expect a negative reply,but are curious anyways. Glad you have received her and are enjoying the T1's.  I thought you might like them once you had tried them for awhile. *Check around the house every now and then and make sure PCT is not sneaking around trying to "borrow" your Euforia until his gets here.*


----------



## connieflyer

See I told you PCT was clever, he has you listen to childrens song's and as you watch him run through your village and climb in and out your windows, on the last trip as you get used to him doing that, he grabs your Euforia and away he runs.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Envy doesn't describe how I feel right now. I have to be content with a weekend of plain Jane... I mean Elise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 But green _*is*_ a lovely colour, UT...better than bright _*red*_, anyways lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...All the best for Monday - _*no excuses *_for you either!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. But am glad you're enjoying your new tubes in not-so-plain Jane LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 As for me, I have indeed come to an end with tube rolling I'm afraid - mesh plate EL11s + EL12 Spezials (+ Euforia, of course!) have _*finally*_ convinced me that one _*can*_ fill in that darned rabbit hole for good...my setup is now giving me everything I personally could ever want from an HP rig, and I am *ecsatic!!*








..._*LOL, LOL, LOL!!!...*_
  


pctazhp said:


>




  
 There are sides to you, pct, that I'm only just beginning to appreciate lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(hope you got that email to Lukasz, like a _*week*_ ago!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


connieflyer said:


> See I told you PCT was clever, he has you listen to childrens song's and as you watch him run through your village and climb in and out your windows, on the last trip as you get used to him doing that, he grabs your Euforia and away he runs.


 
  
 Hmmm, cf....methinks you just might be a _*very*_ willing - not to mention _*able*_ - pupil of pct's...and so others had better be _extra_ vigilant now lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(This race is developing VERY nicely, if FRUSTRATINGLY for some!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....). GOOD LUCK for Monday...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

My days of jumping through windows and Hoops are long since gone and buried. That being said I am a willing follower and pupil of PCT as they say the shadow knows


----------



## connieflyer

Lastest tracking shows it has taken 36 hours to move 80 miles and still has not gotten back to main post office in Detroit. Perhaps someone took it home to safe guard it, of stole it more likely.
  
 Date & Time
 Status of Item
 Location
 March 18, 2017 , 8:18 am
In Transit to Destination
  
  

   The item is currently in transit to the destination as of March 18, 2017 at 8:18 am.


 March 17, 2017 , 8:18 am
 Arrived at USPS Facility 
 GRAND RAPIDS, MI 49512 
 March 14, 2017 , 7:03 pm
 In Transit to Destination 
  
 March 13, 2017 , 7:03 pm
 Arrived at USPS Facility 
 METRO, NY


----------



## DecentLevi

I do recall one of my Elise's was shipped via DHL, and IIRC it took somewhere less than 7 days from Poland to California. Perhaps this is something anyone with a future order can inquire about, even if for a bit more.


----------



## connieflyer

My first one only took 7 days and it was a straight shot from Poland to Michigan it's one made it to New York City OK but from there they should have shipped it to Detroit which is the main break bulk point but they shipped it to the other side of Michigan the Westside to Grand Rapids that's about two and a half hours away from Detroit it's set there for a day and then they shipped it and they're shipping them it's been missing for 36 hours now why they shipped it up there is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is that the zip code in Grand Rapids is for nine and my zip code is for 8 if the number was put on the package wrong it could have ended up there and Grand Rapids instead well time will tell if it doesn't show up Monday I get ahold of Lukasz


----------



## UntilThen

I know mine took 10 days to reach Sydney.  Elise took 7 days.
  
 Anyway no worries. It's almost in my hands. I can feel it.


----------



## HOWIE13

@hypnos1 
  
_ 'I'm still floating on Cloud 9 with how the 2 TFK Spezials are performing now, given my early angst!!' _
  
 I'm also on the same cloud with dual* *spez per power channel. one TFK, one RWN/RFT each side.  I also vary with dual EL12/EL12N per channel powers too.
  
 At present I'm using dual  Visseaux 6J5's per channel as drivers. To fine tune the flavour I also use EL11, EL3N, C3g or Bad Boys.  Will give EF86 a try too.
  
 These power/ driver combos are probably the best sounds for me that I have achieved in Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> My first one only took 7 days and it was a straight shot from Poland to Michigan it's one made it to New York City OK but from there they should have shipped it to Detroit which is the main break bulk point but they shipped it to the other side of Michigan the Westside to Grand Rapids that's about two and a half hours away from Detroit it's set there for a day and then they shipped it and they're shipping them it's been missing for 36 hours now why they shipped it up there is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is that the zip code in Grand Rapids is for nine and my zip code is for 8 if the number was put on the package wrong it could have ended up there and Grand Rapids instead well time will tell if it doesn't show up Monday I get ahold of Lukasz


 
  
 Hey cf...you seem intent on giving me a heart attack here lol!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...you obviously haven't been _cooing_ right!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(are you not able to contact the couriers to find out What's going on?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...I do hope it gets to you safe and sound tomorrow, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


untilthen said:


> I know mine took 10 days to reach Sydney.  Elise took 7 days.
> 
> Anyway no worries. It's almost in my hands. I can feel it.


 
  
 Well, UT...looks like you will indeed be #2 in the race after all lol!...(hope you're gonna relegate that LF to the back room for a while...don't want any jealous rivalry upsetting the new gal!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


howie13 said:


> @hypnos1
> 
> _ 'I'm still floating on Cloud 9 with how the 2 TFK Spezials are performing now, given my early angst!!' _
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey H13...if you keep this up, you just _might_ be tempting me to break my vows and get dualling my own Spezials LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...(especially as I'm beginning to suspect my RFT tube has a _tiny_ bit more sub-bass than the TFKs...but it could well be that my NOS TFKs simply need a good few more hours on them lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps. Sure is giddy up in them there clouds, n'est-ce pas?!!


----------



## connieflyer

Well H, the problem is I am the recipient and I don't have any rights to the package until delivered. Only the shipper can inquire, go figure. I will wait til the first of the week and then unleash the dogs of hell!  Blood pressure is on the rise. Should have opted for express shipping, at least then it would be with a shipping  service that had customer service. The us post office is so large, no customer service to speak of. They could not find their derriere if their hands were on it.


----------



## connieflyer

Time to make up new speaker cables so I leave you with one of my favorites .


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well H, the problem is I am the recipient and I don't have any rights to the package until delivered. Only the shipper can inquire, go figure. I will wait til the first of the week and then unleash the dogs of hell!  Blood pressure is on the rise. Should have opted for express shipping, at least then it would be with a shipping  service that had customer service. The us post office is so large, no customer service to speak of. *They could not find their derriere if their hands were on it.*


 
  
 Bet you could with your _*foot*_, my friend!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I did tell you to go Pony Express and take your chances with Butch and Sundance lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 But best wishes nonetheless...and give Connor an extra hug or two - gotta keep that BP down!....CHEERS!...
  
 ps. Speaking of over-excitement, I reckon poor @aqsw is lying on a floor somewhere, still in motionless catalepsy after all that exposure to Euforia's delights lol?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(sure hope all is well though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).


----------



## pctazhp

> ps. Speaking of over-excitement, I reckon poor @aqsw is lying on a floor somewhere, still in motionless catalepsy after all that exposure to Euforia's delights lol?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 He's been pounding on my front door all night yelling incoherent babble about me having something that belongs to him.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> He's been pounding on my front door all night yelling incoherent babble about me having something that belongs to him.


 
  
 Glad to hear you can still just about manage window-hopping, pct...you never cease to amaze me lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(thank goodness your pupil has more sense though!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 ps. Could understand if you refuse to part with ill-gotten gains...you have my blessing...sorry aq! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

One thing that PCT does know is the law, that is if he knows anything, possession is nine-tenths of the law so if he did have anything,it is his, and someone else would have to prove otherwise, congrats on the new amp!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> One thing that PCT does know is the law, that is if he knows anything, possession is nine-tenths of the law so if he did have anything,it is his, and someone else would have to prove otherwise, congrats on the new amp!


 

 It was dark and I grabbed the wrong thing. Not sure what I got, but it keeps saying "Meow, Meow, Meow".


----------



## connieflyer

Well if you don't know what you grabbed, then I am not going to try to explain it! Meow? Better turn on the lights, and see what make's that kind of sound!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well if you don't know what you grabbed, then I am not going to try to explain it! Meow? Better turn on the lights, and see what make's that kind of sound!


 

 Oh yeah. I got Felix the Kangaroo.


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, I'm listening to Chicago II on Tidal Master. So amazing. Perfect for a spring Sunday afternoon.


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> Oh yeah. I got Felix the Kangaroo.


 
 In that case you may want to contact UT and see if he is missing any!


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm wondering if @aqsw may not be posting because of some sort of mishap or technical issue with the Euforia. I know that I was reluctant to post a bad experience with the Elise before, and another (former) Elise forum member had told me he will not post anything negative relating to a design flaw of the Elise, for fear of retribution / getting a 'bad rap' among other members. I for one however see negative posts as an opportunity for improvement, rather than as any sort of 'insult', Lol. Of course I'm not saying his unit has a problem, just speculating...
  
 Also Which courier is everybody using for their Euforia - regular postal service, right?


----------



## connieflyer

regular post here


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> I'm wondering if @aqsw
> may not be posting because of some sort of mishap or technical issue with the Euforia. I know that I was reluctant to post a bad experience with the Elise before, and another (former) Elise forum member had told me he will not post anything negative relating to a design flaw of the Elise, for fear of retribution / getting a 'bad rap' among other members. I for one however see negative posts as an opportunity for improvement, rather than as any sort of 'insult', Lol. Of course I'm not saying his unit has a problem, just speculating...
> 
> Also Which courier is everybody using for their Euforia - regular postal service, right?




Im back. That's not it at all DL. The new amp sounds fantastic. I just had a death in the family ( 1st cousin) whom I was very close with Not much time for an amp rightt now, 
But as I stated befire" I am very happy with the purchase". The diminishing retiurns is true though. The Elise is dtill a fine amp. The Euforia is a definate step up though.


----------



## connieflyer

Please accept my sincere condolences on your loss. They can really make life miserable for a while. Take care of yourself


----------



## UntilThen

Euforia is really with me but I have to wait till work is over at end of day to sample. Such is life.


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations UT, so happy for you that yours got through to you today! Lot's of musical interludes for you!  Have your wife take a picture of you so she will remember who you are when you re-surface!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Im back. That's not it at all DL. The new amp sounds fantastic. I just had a death in the family ( 1st cousin) whom I was very close with Not much time for an amp rightt now,
> But as I stated befire" I am very happy with the purchase". The diminishing retiurns is true though. The Elise is dtill a fine amp. The Euforia is a definate step up though.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that news aq...commiserations. And of course things have to go on hold for a while, so take your time...
  
 Fear not...the returns shall increase over time lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  


untilthen said:


> Euforia is really with me but I have to wait till work is over at end of day to sample. Such is life.


 
  
 Great news UT...if somewhat cruel !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but soon, soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## svmusa

Aqsw - Please accept my sincere condolences on your loss.


----------



## connieflyer

svmusa congrats on the Euforia, hope all is well so far


----------



## connieflyer

Nice voice on this lady


----------



## DecentLevi

Wow UT's package looks very beat up! I recon the amp should hold up exceedingly well though, given their expert craftsmanship and packaging as well. Though I'll be requesting express an express courier on my order.


----------



## svmusa

connieflyer said:


> svmusa congrats on the Euforia, hope all is well so far


 
 Great so far, waiting for my shipping email from Feliks. Recently I got a Jolida Fusion 801 integrated tube amp and busy with revisiting my tube collection and rolling.
  
 I don't have an high impedance phone in my collection, I prefer closed ones and there are few options seems like.  Eyeing Beyer DT 1770 Pro, I do like my sub bass and so far reviews are indicating as such but not sure how it pairs with Euforia but that's the fun in the discovery I suppose.


----------



## connieflyer

The last closed back I had was a Sennheiser hd 380 pro and it sounded great on the Elise, Euforia's predecessor. I had the Senn 650,700, and now the 800 and they got better and better the better the phone. The new Euforia should exceed the Elise and that is not easy to do. Still waiting for mine as well.


----------



## connieflyer

A classic


----------



## UntilThen

My package has that vintage look. 

It's NOS.


----------



## connieflyer

Well engineered!!


----------



## UntilThen

_*A thing of beauty, a joy forever.*_ That's the thought that cross my mind when I first lay my eyes on Euforia.
  
 Not only in looks but in tone. 20 seconds into my first song, my mouth was ajar. Such clarity, such dynamics, it's really quite a different amp from Elise. The sound is captivating and it's running with stock tubes. I had to use my seasoned Svetlana 6h13c though because one of the power tube that came did not light up. Must have died of fright on the long and treacherous journey to Sydney.
  
 Second thought that cross my mind is ... 'there really is no need to roll other tubes'. Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c on Euforia sounds equally as explosive as Elise with EL12N and EL12.
  
 Third thought that cross my mind before I retreat into a blissful night of listening is that this amp is so quiet. It's pitch black with no music playing and volume to the max.... so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Boom boom boom....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Teaser pic.. more to come.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm Euforia No. 3


----------



## UntilThen

It's not obvious from the photos but Euforia fit and finish is of a much higher quality. There's a nice touch to the surface of the casing. It's more matt than gloss and there's a sprinkling of glittering sparkles on the paint work that is only visible on close up. All edges are now smooth and rounded. The end result is a nice classy looking amp with the design philosophy that less is more. 
  
 Btw Elise with stock tubes weigh 5.4 kgs. Euforia with stock tubes is 6.6 kgs.


----------



## UntilThen

The bottom looks equally as impressive. There's now a nice wire guard in the middle to stop any gremlins from getting in. The feet is well damped and must serve anti-vibration very well because I could now finger drum on my table without getting any feedback from Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

Behind the RCA connectors looks more gleaming and is longer than that in Elise. Fitting the RCA connector now has a very positive feel.


----------



## UntilThen

The 2 siblings side by side. Euforia has won me over big time. If a newcomer were to ask me which of the 2 he should buy, I would not hesitate to point him to Euforia even though the the price difference is $1399 vs $999 - both with Psvane 6sn7.


----------



## UntilThen

After more than an hour, Euforia is barely warm. I know Oskari... you are going to say that it is not plug in. This was taken before I started listening.


----------



## UntilThen

I'll post more detail impressions after 48 hours. Suffice to say that I'm very impressed with Euforia. All that Senior Henryk Feliks has done with the upgrade, has fine tune it into a high end tube amp sound. After 1.5 hours of listening, I'm very happy that I went along with this purchase, after reading @hypnos1 impressions. He's absolutely right once again with his appraisal of Euforia.
  
 Because a picture paints a thousand words, I'll give you one more photo of Euforia for the night. It's going to be a long night for me and I'm working tomorrow....


----------



## hypnos1

GREAT WORK, @UntilThen...and thanks for doing a better job than I already with your photos and descriptions lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(are you drooling over those lovely sockets yet?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Their final product does now look a bit different to my prototype - they've done a very impressive-looking job indeed, along with the additional features and upgrades over mine (definitely gonna have to get Lukasz to do me a deal on one of these LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Sounds like they've also done a very good job in choosing the new drivers - nice to hear you're already very impressed with Euforia in stock mode even...that doesn't seem to happen very often lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Am really looking forward to how you find your other favourite tube combos performing in her...as she burns in, I suspect things will change on the preferences front - certainly did with me!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Your ears are now in for the (joyous!) bashing of their lives...to accompany chronic sleep deprivation, no doubt! ....*ENJOY!!!*....
  
  
 ps. Speaking of sockets, as you will have found by now, they do indeed hold the tube pins _*very tightly*_, and so I would advise folks to be careful when removing "Coke Bottle" ST tubes especially - I personally recommend :
  
 1. *Always* remove *only* by the base, in case of weak glue in old tubes.
  
 2. Do the "rolling" gradually as it loosens, keeping a *firm* hold of the base - the final freeing can sometimes be sudden and possibly catch you off guard lol!...(Plus, I always try to make sure that if it does, it's into free space and not in the direction of a neighbouring tube or the trafo case!!).
  
 3. Generally, I find that gold-plated pins go in and out without too much trouble, but there can be quite a variation in the diameter of different old tubes' pins, along with their smoothness. I myself have encountered the odd tube that even when cleaned was _extremely_ tight, and to stay on the safe side I removed it by "working" it loose from below with a flat-bladed screwdriver, levering gradually around the bottom (as @mordy has advised in the past). If such a tight fit is suspected, I suggest leaving a slight gap at the socket to help with such a procedure...
  
 I know this might sound a bit like "faffing around", but I assure you, nicely snug pin/socket connections are very beneficial in the end lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

Too right @hypnos1.  The sockets are tight but have a very nice feel when inserting your tubes. I'm not going to abuse those sockets. I will take care of Euforia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh Lukasz did not include your EL11 tubes with the package.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Too right @hypnos1.  The sockets are tight but have a very nice feel when inserting your tubes. I'm not going to abuse those sockets. I will take care of Euforia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OH NO, UT!!! ...presumably they couldn't fit them in safely?...will have to get this sorted lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...time to go, so try to get _some_ sleep tonight, mon ami! And thanks for your kind words - I'm glad it looks like I haven't been leading you all astray..._*yet!!!*_





...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> OH NO, UT!!! ...presumably they couldn't fit them in safely?...will have to get this sorted lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's absolutely no more room in that package for one more pair of tubes. The outer part of the carton got wet from the incessant rain that Sydney has been experiencing lately but inside, Euforia was very well protected with a plastic covering and good layers of styrofoam. All in all I'm very happy with Lukasz shipment.
  
 As with Elise, Euforia is now working like a Swiss precision watch. Perfecto. I don't think I'm lucky. I think FA's QC and stringent testing of the amps ensures that.


----------



## UntilThen

I wasn't going to change the tubes tonight but I couldn't resist. I swapped the Svetlana 6h13c for Tung Sol 5998 using the same Psvane 6sn7 drivers. The whole neighborhood woke up from my screaming. 
  
 Immediately it became apparent that Euforia is just waiting to morph into a unicorn with better tubes. However the sockets are so tight I'll keep tube rolling to a minimum.


----------



## connieflyer

Glad I did not sell my 5998's now. Anxious to hear 5998A with it.  You are about as animated as H was!  Good to see that confirmation.


----------



## connieflyer

@HOWIE13 saw this and though of you.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I wasn't going to change the tubes tonight but I couldn't resist. I swapped the Svetlana 6h13c for Tung Sol 5998 using the same Psvane 6sn7 drivers. The whole neighborhood woke up from my screaming.
> 
> Immediately it became apparent that Euforia is just waiting to morph into a unicorn with better tubes. However the sockets are so tight* I'll keep tube rolling to a minimum. *


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, tracking showed it was back in town, so I high-tailed it up to the post office to save a day, and I showed the tracking sheet to manager so I could retrieve the package, and he said it was not at their office. The tracking was wrong, again, it was sent to the post office in the next town over but that they would deliver it, today or tomorrow, and no I could not go over to the other post office and get it from them.  Customer service is something government employees are not familiar with the term. So wait another day or two.  Knew I should have just bought the McIntosh!


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 May I suggest using socket savers to facilitate the tube rolling that u know u can't resist!


----------



## HOWIE13

@connieflyer    HAHAHAHAHAHA.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I wasn't going to change the tubes tonight but I couldn't resist. I swapped the Svetlana 6h13c for Tung Sol 5998 using the same Psvane 6sn7 drivers. The whole neighborhood woke up from my screaming.
> 
> *Immediately it became apparent that Euforia is just waiting to morph into a unicorn with better tubes.* However the sockets are so tight I'll keep tube rolling to a minimum.


 
 You better believe it lol!!!...not to mention the very best accompanying gear one can afford...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
  
 And on this subject, I'm being reminded of just how important is the media playing _*source*_ and connection. In readiness for showcasing my Euforia as best possible at our local meet soon, have been trying to find an alternative to humping along my Oppo BDP103 (plus a screen) that feeds my tube DAC via coax. So have tried using an old laptop and its optical out to the DAC instead...now I can see why this method doesn't gain much favour lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(sounds pretty good, but doesn't match coax from the Oppo...).
  
 Next step will be to install AudiophileLinux and see if that helps very much. If still not up to scratch, I suppose I could try USB out to a USB/Coax converter, as my DAC doesn't take USB alas...(knew I should have paid extra to have it included at the off!!).
  
 Frustrating...but at least an interesting exercise in the source/connection arena LOL!...


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> You better believe it lol!!!...not to mention the very best accompanying gear one can afford...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I don't agree with you on that one H1. Unless you are going to a dedicated server/streamer, I feel your tube dac should send a really good signal to the Euphoria, no matter what the source is. Remember it's the last dac in the chain that matters the most ( or so I have been told).!

P.S.

The Euforia is pitch black. Not sure hoe they do that on a tuber!!


----------



## UntilThen

Went to bed at midnight and was up at 5am again. First thing I needed to do was listen to Euforia again. Make sure the bliss I was experiencing last night had not vaporised. It's all there !!! I wasn't dreaming !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Got the stock tubes back in again and I must say that the synergy is really good. We're in no shortage of tubes now with these current production tubes sounding so good in the amp.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> Went to bed at midnight and was up at 5am again. First thing I needed to do was listen to Euforia again. Make sure the bliss I was experiencing last night had not vaporised. It's all there !!! I wasn't dreaming !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Good to hear, UT. 

You almost have me thinking of trying out those psvanes!!!

More reviews please. You are so much better at them than I.


----------



## DecentLevi

An FYI for anyone who's Euforia hasn't shipped yet:
  
 F.A. has emailed me that DHL shipping is available for an extra $70, and EMS for an extra $25, which is the extra cost after the shipping charge that was already included in the original order. This may not be the same for everyone however depending on your country so I would check with them beforehand. I do recall great experiences with EMS however and at least the US postal service gives extra rush priority for their service, even making an a separate earlier trip for delivery.


----------



## UntilThen

Listening to 'Famous Blue Raincoat' by Jennifer Warnes - 20th Anniversary Edition now. This is high fidelity sound from Euforia. I have listen to this special CD version that has been ripped as flac file into my hard disc many times before but I'm hearing it in a new light now. Pretty amazing. 
  
 It's still very early days and my Euforia is still burning in but it has hit the ground running faster than Usain Bolt. I'm very excited for those of you about to receive your Euforia. You are going to be as happy as I am. It is the sound that has captivated me. Sure it looks good but it is the sound. Rapturous sound.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > You better believe it lol!!!...not to mention the very best accompanying gear one can afford...
> ...


 
  
 Hi aq...well, mon ami, I'm afraid all I can say is the final outcome from the laptop to DAC via optical certainly wasn't as good as from Oppo via coax - no doubt about it lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Instrument separation/positioning and soundstage overall were less impressive, as were the more subtle aspects of tonal range/overtones. The magic I now look for in Loreena McKennitt's "Beneath a Phrygian Sky" simply wasn't there...I was left wanting more, and rather frustrated alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Many seem to say this is probably down to the optical digital signal from a PC not being as directly out - and therefore not as 'unadulterated' by the PC's system - as USB out, even though they are of course both "just" a digital signal, as opposed to analog. Whatever, my own final result was not quite so impressive, so I shall keep tweaking and see what happens lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And yes indeed...that deathly silent background really is very impressive, and contributes to a wonderfully 'clean' sound...amongst other benefits! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, that's awesome the new finishing touches on the Euforia such as matte finish, rounded corners and vibration absorbent feet!
  
 Also RE the tight sockets - I see no reason in the world not to just use 6SN7 Socket Savers, this is what I'll do to aid in easier rolling with 'aftermarket' tubes. They're quite cheap too.
  
*PS-* not to mention the Euforia's extra 1.2 KG of upgraded components


----------



## UntilThen

I'll be more specific about the sound I'm listening to at the moment. This is captured in my mind at this point in time. I see now why Feliks Audio call the Euforia built around 'Purism and signal clarity'.
  
 Along with the very revealing high sweet notes and a perfectly voiced mid range that sounds superb with any vocals, the bass has that kick and punch now like never before. It is tight and impactful. I thought Elise has fast transient response but Euforia is even more engaging and energetic. It has PRAT. The word is very aptly used now. Pace, rhythm and timing served cold and chilled.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Good to hear, UT.
> 
> You almost have me thinking of trying out those psvanes!!!
> 
> *More reviews please.* You are so much better at them than I.


 
  
 Don't get me started. I'm now bothering almost 7000 posts. Shane has to leave town soon or Head-Fi will kick me out.


----------



## aqsw

One thing that I noticed on a song,

Lonely days and Lonely nights by the Bee Gees.

I always thought there was one person clapping in the background.
I noticed immediately that there are two. You can hear the claps milliseconds apart.
Pretty cool !!

After listening on the Elise, I can hear it now too, but it was never prominent enough to distinguish until the Euforia came along.


----------



## UntilThen

Time to tear myself away from Euforia and head off for work. Any further reporting to be continued in the coming days... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I won't leave my Euforia on to burn in unattended. I would advice others not to do that too. Take your time with her. It's enjoyable to hear the amp changing in tone as she burns in. No rush.
  
 ... and look after her well. I doubt you'd need another tube amp after this.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'll be more specific about the sound I'm listening to at the moment. This is captured in my mind at this point in time. I see now why Feliks Audio call the Euforia built around 'Purism and signal clarity'.
> 
> Along with the very revealing high sweet notes and a perfectly voiced mid range that sounds superb with any vocals, the bass has that kick and punch now like never before. It is tight and impactful. I thought Elise has fast transient response but Euforia is even more engaging and energetic. *It has PRAT.* The word is very aptly used now. Pace, rhythm and timing served cold and chilled.


 
  
 Yo UT...told you this _*BRAT *_has *PRAT* lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...never fully appreciated this term before...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


aqsw said:


> One thing that I noticed on a song,
> 
> Lonely days and Lonely nights by the Bee Gees.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi aq...as with PRaT, the words "separation" and "positioning" take on a new meaning with this amp. As you say, the notes_ were_ there before, but now they occupy their own space, without seeming too detached from the whole...the sense of cohesion, balance and effortless control marks the Euforia as being in another league entirely. And don't forget...you're still in the early days of burn-in lol!


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...told you this _*BRAT *_has *PRAT* lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


This amp is amazing me every time I turn it on. I almost want to start tube rolling again, something I said I wasn't going to do !!


----------



## HPLobster

untilthen said:


> *It's not obvious from the photos but Euforia fit and finish is of a much higher quality. There's a nice touch to the surface of the casing. It's more matt than gloss and there's a sprinkling of glittering sparkles on the paint work* that is only visible on close up. All edges are now smooth and rounded. The end result is a nice classy looking amp with the design philosophy that less is more.
> 
> Btw Elise with stock tubes weigh 5.4 kgs. Euforia with stock tubes is 6.6 kgs.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Behind the RCA connectors looks more gleaming and is longer than that in Elise. Fitting the RCA connector now has a very positive feel.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> The bottom looks equally as impressive. There's now* a nice wire guard in the middle to stop any gremlins from getting in*. The feet is well damped and must serve anti-vibration very well because I could now finger drum on my table without getting any feedback from Euforia.


 
  
  
  
 Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks fabulous...
  
 For what it´s worth (since I own the Elise no.111 - a more recent production):
 - The finish on mine is the same you are describing for the Euforia - matt with glittering sparkles
 - the back looks exactly the same as on your Euforia, particularly the same arrangement of power connector and main switch 
 - my Elise also has the nice black "keep-those-gremlins-away"-grid on the bottom
  
 I wonder what else has been upgraded in the meantime


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yo UT...told you this _*BRAT *_has *PRAT* lol!
> ...


 
  
 Oh dear...looks like this amp could well have unforeseen consequences lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...GOOD LUCK!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## aqsw

hplobster said:


> Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


How many companies do you know that would keep on updating their product from serial # 1 - #111.

Long live Feliks Audio !!


----------



## hypnos1

hplobster said:


> Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi HPL...I do believe there are indeed a fair few alterations/upgrades in Elise also - hence the hike in price lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but no silver wire; upgraded trafo; Dale/Caddock resistor circuits; better sockets etc. alas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## UntilThen

hplobster said:


> Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice Lobster. Looks like you have the improved version of Elise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't forget Euforia has these upgrades ...
  
*1*. _*Pure silver wire for signal paths...teflon-tubed.*_
_*2. Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors.*_
_*3. Dale and Caddock resistors in new circuits.*_
_*4. High quality Teflon sockets with gold-plated pin receptors.*_
_*5. High quality gold-plated RCA connectors.*_
_*6. Improved noise reduction for power supply, RFI/EMI.*_
_*7. Upgraded PsVane 6SN7 drivers...(still the Russian 6N13S/6H13C powers).*_

 Plus an upgraded power transformer... name of it is somewhere back there in this forum.
  
 Caps, resistors and transfo upgrade would be the greatest changes to the tone.


----------



## HPLobster

aqsw said:


> hplobster said:
> 
> 
> > Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT
> ...


 
 true true


----------



## HPLobster

hypnos1 said:


> Hi HPL...I do believe there are indeed a fair few alterations/upgrades in Elise also - hence the hike in price lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Nice Lobster. Looks like you have the improved version of Elise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaah, what happened, oh no, I can´t hear you, I suddenly can´t hear you anymore, radio interference....


----------



## HPLobster

My goal is to resist temptation until 2018...............
  
 Certainly not the wisest decision to sub this thread in hindsight....


----------



## Liu Junyuan

So it is more transparent and resolving than the Elise, with a more solid and substantial presence in the lower end? Would you say you notice more difference in the treble or mids (or both)?


----------



## DecentLevi

Nice to see you around again Ms. @Liu Junyuan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. While I haven't owned the Euforia (until about 2-3 weeks later anyway), @UntilThen also owns the La Figaro 339 and I have a hunch he would compare the Euforia favorably... speaking of which, how do your early impressions compare the LF 339 to the Euforia?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Thanks Levi, and I am looking forward to it.

I just realized how hard this might be to write conclusively about without trying different tubes and living with the amp for awhile. The 339 is extremely variable depending on tubes, as it would seem the Elise and Euforia are. Common factors do emerge despite tubes used, though it takes time to grasp what they are.


----------



## MIKELAP

decentlevi said:


> An FYI for anyone who's Euforia hasn't shipped yet:
> 
> F.A. has emailed me that DHL shipping is available for an extra $70, and EMS for an extra $25, which is the extra cost after the shipping charge that was already included in the original order. This may not be the same for everyone however depending on your country so I would check with them beforehand. I do recall great experiences with EMS however and at least the US postal service gives extra rush priority for their service, even making an a separate earlier trip for delivery.


 
 Bought an amp from China it was shipped with DHL amp arrived in 3-4 days i couldnt believe it


----------



## aqsw

mikelap said:


> Bought an amp from China it was shipped with DHL amp arrived in 3-4 days i couldnt believe it




My Euforia took 8 days . From Poland, im quite happy. No duties or taxes, hey Mike. I know you were worried about that, but as a fellow Canadian, this is the second time.


----------



## connieflyer

Receive my amp today this amp is quite nice indeed. Using stock tubes right now and this thing sounds beautiful the clarity is the single biggest thing that comes to mind I put on a few songs that I knew the trouble always sounded just a little bit off but this new amp nailed it very impressed. There was minor shipping damage and already contacted Feliks audio about it. The one RCA jack was a little bit bent on the line out should not be a big deal to correct it. Everything else is in perfect shape and like I said the sound is phenomenal. More later I'm busy now listening


----------



## aqsw

OMG, This amp is phenominal. It takes longer to warm up than the Elise, but when the tubes finally heat up,its a wow moment. Dire Straits never sounded so great.I have heard some big $$ amps before, and came close to buying one. I'm so glad I didn't. This amp competes with the big dogs. AFAIC


----------



## connieflyer

I have to agree the sound on this is absolutely amazing. Listening to some DSD files and there is an amazing amount of detail in the files themselves that I hadn't heard even with the Elise. Will have to spend a great deal of time really listening to all of the music I have. Thank you H1 and Feliks audio Great job


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Receive my amp today this amp is quite nice indeed. Using stock tubes right now and this thing sounds beautiful the clarity is the single biggest thing that comes to mind I put on a few songs that I knew the trouble always sounded just a little bit off but this new amp nailed it very impressed. There was minor shipping damage and already contacted Feliks audio about it. The one RCA jack was a little bit bent on the line out should not be a big deal to correct it. Everything else is in perfect shape and like I said the sound is phenomenal. More later I'm busy now listening


)

Congrats CF, I hope everything works out on the rcas. Sit back, listen, and enjoy.

We are the new "LUCKY ONES"


----------



## connieflyer

I must admit AQ it takes a lot for me to say that I am blown away but this app definitely doesn't. You are quite right about the lucky ones very fortunate indeed back to the music


----------



## DecentLevi

connieflyer said:


> I put on a few songs that I knew the *treble *always sounded just a little bit off but this new amp nailed it very impressed.


 
  


connieflyer said:


> I must admit AQ it takes a lot for me to say that I am blown away but this app definitely *does it*. You are quite right about the lucky ones very fortunate indeed back to the music


 
 Correcting your words to what I believe you meant to say. I have the same faux passes with mobile voice dictation too, but I always proofread it first before submitting.
  
 Don't mean to sound too down, just a tip. Congrats on your probable end game amp.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I have to agree the sound on this is absolutely amazing. Listening to some DSD files and there is an amazing amount of detail in the files themselves that I hadn't heard even with the Elise. Will have to spend a great deal of time really listening to all of the music I have. Thank you H1 and Feliks audio Great job


 
  
 Hi cf...really glad you're managing to enjoy your new amp more now, after that shipping disappointment - first runaround, then damage! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I do hope it's easily remedied your end...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't wait for you to get those EL11s and 12Ns in place lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Yes, @DecentLevi, those voice rec'n apps can indeed do some strange/hilarious things...but grammatically, I think cf's "doesn't" is associated with the prior statement "takes a lot for me to say", so in effect, correct lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  


aqsw said:


> OMG, This amp is phenominal. It takes longer to warm up than the Elise, but when the tubes finally heat up,its a wow moment.* Dire Straits never sounded so great*.I have heard some big $$ amps before, and came close to buying one. I'm so glad I didn't. This amp competes with the big dogs. AFAIC


 
  
 "Love Over Gold" album is just blowing me away lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...as is much of Mike Oldfield's work...and did I mention Loreena McKennitt's "Enhanced" CD works? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - RedBook should never sound this good LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
  
 And just thought I'd add to the photos, now I have two TFK EL12 Spezials that look alike!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    :
  

  
 Valvo mesh plate EL11s driving NOS Telefunken EL12 Spezials; Beyer T1s
  
 ps. For fear of repeating myself, these 12s/Spezials need *looooong* burn-in from new....mine just keep on surprising me more and more by the day..._*phenomenal!!*_ (this word seems to be appearing quite a lot right now for some reason!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> So it is more transparent and resolving than the Elise, with a more solid and substantial presence in the lower end? Would you say you notice more difference in the treble or mids (or both)?


 
  
 LJ, I made this post a while back to @hypnos1 . This is what I hope Euforia will turn out to be.
  
_CJ, thanks for the photos and summary of the upgrades. Looks good. __Wonder if there's any re-tuning done?_
*I hope this will translate into an Elise with more snap attack, even faster transient response, bite and transparency. Although I cannot envisage if that would be a better outcome as Elise in it's current state, is perfecto for me. *
  
 Little did I know that what I wish for would be fulfilled ... and more. Euforia is more transparent and resolving than Elise for sure and has a blacker 'black'. There's a lift in the whole frequency response - not just treble, mids and bass individually. It's pretty seamless. There's bite and yet it's smooth. Soundstage is even wider than Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And just thought I'd add to the photos, now I have two TFK EL12 Spezials that look alike!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 H1, that's a very nice picture of some really special tubes. I'm still running stock tubes in Euforia because it sounded so good to me. I think Euforia with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c looks good too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Ps... just saw that your Euforia feet are different from mine.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, that's a very nice picture of some really special tubes. I'm still running stock tubes in Euforia because it sounded so good to me. I think Euforia with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c looks good too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure does look good too, UT!  And yes, F-A have even changed the feet from my prototype lol!! ...mine are round...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (quite a few differences in the final product, over all...).
  
 Glad the promises I made re. your wishes for Euforia are coming true...actually, as with Elise, I feel I may have _under_ stated her charms lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...Mind you, I have been "drip feeding" for a good while now pretty well all the qualities mentioned by folks so far, and am glad I wasn't just fooling myself all this time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This amp is indeed up there "with the big dogs", as @aqsw says...


----------



## connieflyer

Okay folks how long do I have to run the stock tubes before I can roll in some other tibes. I keep getting tempted to take the stock tubes out and try something else but amazingly the stock tubes sounds so good I don't want to mess with the sound for a while I know I'm going to do it eventually but it is hard to get past these stock tubes they're that good Feliks audio scored big with what they've done this time around extremely pleased with what they've accomplished also to our old old old friend H1 for giving them the impetus to do this. Did I mention old old friend it should only have been to olds not three sorry h. And thank you so very much also


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> OMG, This amp is phenominal. It takes longer to warm up than the Elise, but when the tubes finally heat up,its a wow moment. *Dire Straits never sounded so great*.I have heard some big $$ amps before, and came close to buying one. I'm so glad I didn't. This amp competes with the big dogs. AFAIC


 
  
  


hypnos1 said:


> *"Love Over Gold" album is just blowing me away lol!! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Didn't know you guys love Dire Straits as much as I do. I've just listen to Telegraph Road and Private Investigations. Magic. With Euforia, I'm going through my playlist again.


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue the piano is phenomenal. The attack and decay of the individual Keynotes is absolutely amazing it's pinpoint accuracy every strike of that hammer on that string and it attacks it rises and then it falls and cuts off this is as close to a piano as I have ever heard on a recording. From my experience the piano is one of the hardest instruments to record accurately and from what I'm hearing they've done it with this amplifier. I've got to have more coffee!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Oh yes did I mention sensory overload yes this amplifier does this as well and I've got to put the stupid phone down so I can get more coffee


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Okay folks how long do I have to run the stock tubes before I can roll in some other tibes. I keep getting tempted to take the stock tubes out and try something else but amazingly the stock tubes sounds so good I don't want to mess with the sound for a while I know I'm going to do it eventually but it is hard to get past these stock tubes they're that good Feliks audio scored big with what they've done this time around extremely pleased with what they've accomplished also to our old old old friend H1 for giving them the impetus to do this. Did I mention old old friend it should only have been to olds not three sorry h. And thank you so very much also


 
  
 Thou shall not change your tubes. That's the 11th commandments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c hits the right notes. Sparkling high, luscious mids and voluptuous bass. 
  
 Be careful those sockets are really tight. If you are not careful you might hit the side of the transfo casing when removing your power tubes. 
  
 I did have a glimpse of EL12N and EL12 in Euforia. I had it in for a short while and it sounded dynamite. For now though I want to hear more of Euforia with the stock tubes. As you have stated, they do sound excellent. @angpsi  would be happy that I endorse the stock tubes in Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

Please let me know when we get to the 12th come in cuz I really want to hear the other ones but honestly I just don't want to leave this setup at the moment every time I get the urge to I look at it something else comes on and just sit back and I'll wait a little bit longer I did not really believe that it would be this much better I had hoped it would be but I just did not see how it could be this much better at this price range it's a great product at a great price I am happy happy happy with it


----------



## Frederick Rea

hplobster said:


> Congratulations on receiving your Euforia, UT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mine has already that grid and is Number 53


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Thou shall not change your tubes. That's the 11th commandments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am!
  
 So glad you guys are finally enjoying your Euforias! Took you about 1500 posts to get there (!) since @hypnos1 christened this thread, plus—according to my 'disinterested' reading (given that I'm not buying in on the Euforia just yet)—some prominent exercises in self–control, namely,

the very lonely @hypnos1, who was waiting for all the rest to join in_ __and_ anxious to see what everyone else thinks of the amp at the same time,
the amp–less @connieflyer, who retained his composure admirably until his Euforia came in, and
the very eager @UntilThen, who picked up a whole new amp along the way! (and made us look the other way by introducing the EF86!)
  
 In addition to that, I should be amiss not to mention the repentant (?) @DecentLevi who managed to not get anything blown up in the meantime  (hopefully you're not saving those experiments for the Euforia, right?), and an eager new crew that will ensure the longevity of the new thread and the fame of Feliks Audio to the furthest corners of the world!
  
 As for me, I'll just keep on listening to my EL12spez/EL 11 (soon to be replaced by TFK EL12) and patiently wait for @UntilThen to A/B the Svetlana/Psvane combo on the Elise! 
  
 (ok, I get it, not likely—at least not expecting it to happen any time soon! Enjoy your new amp my friend!)


----------



## connieflyer

Very well done humorous and intelligent at the same time what a guy


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Very well done humorous and intelligent at the same time what a guy


 

 Thank you very much for your kind words. I don't know which of my posts you are referring to, or maybe all of them, but I will continue to try to live up to your high praise. Oh sorry!!! You weren't talking about me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So, I sent email to Lukasz asking to be put in line for 120V version of Euforia to be shipped to USA via Pony Express. This morning I'm listening to Sylvania 6SN7WGT/Slotted Bendix 6080. Don't know how it gets any better than this. But am sure with your magic power cord (on order) and Euforia I will find out. At the very least with the new Euforia I will have a pair of driver tubes the name of which I don't know how to pronounce. That seems pretty exotic and special.


----------



## connieflyer

A lawyer I know you were looking for things to be more difficult and complicated than they really are but really p s vane how much easier can that get? Of course that goes to the same thing things are more difficult for people, with an extraordinary high IQ, now what your problem is I'm not sure but I'm sure it's linked to something of that sort. And yes dear PCT I did not believe that this new amp could sound that much better than Elise but it does you are going to be totally thrilled once you stop trying to overthink it and listen to the music !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> A lawyer I know you were looking for things to be more difficult and complicated than they really are but really p s vane how much easier can that get? Of course that goes to the same thing things are more difficult for people, with an extraordinary high IQ, now what your problem is I'm not sure but I'm sure it's linked to something of that sort. And yes dear PCT I did not believe that this new amp could sound that much better than Elise but it does you are going to be totally thrilled once you stop trying to overthink it and listen to the music !!!!


 

 In "vane" I seek the truth and in vain I suffer the barbs of those who stick their heads in the snow. Or maybe it is weather "vains" I seek. Alas, the destiny of man is yet but a drawbridge over the valley of life.
  
 I believe my post makes about as much sense as yours. Now I must get busy Googling for Michigan agencies that provide service and aid to the hopeless.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey @hypnos1 reading all these sentiments about you appearing as Frank Sinatra... or _"somewhere"_ in the crowd LOL, now about how you're supposedly 3x 2x old makes me wonder if you can't be that old, can you? Methinks it's about time for a tad bid of 'show & tell', maybe we can put the face behind the name of the Euforia startup, CJ. Of course that's up to you if you post an older photo, HaHa.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Okay folks how long do I have to run the stock tubes before I can roll in some other tibes. I keep getting tempted to take the stock tubes out and try something else but amazingly the stock tubes sounds so good I don't want to mess with the sound for a while I know I'm going to do it eventually but it is hard to get past these stock tubes they're that good Feliks audio scored big with what they've done this time around extremely pleased with what they've accomplished also to our old old old friend H1 for giving them the impetus to do this. Did I mention old old friend it should only have been to olds not three sorry h. And thank you so very much also


 
  
 And thank you too, cf...you make me very happy indeed that you can now enjoy Euforia to this extent after your recent trials lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._*and it can only get better!!*_




  
 And thanks for the "olds"...they should have been FOUR lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially after the mutiple birth expectancies!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(at least no Caesarians just yet, thank goodness...just a bent toe lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - which I do hope Lukasz sees you right with...I'm sure he will...).
  


untilthen said:


> Didn't know you guys love Dire Straits as much as I do. I've just listen to Telegraph Road and Private Investigations. Magic. *With Euforia, I'm going through my playlist again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Me...I keep going through them time and time again lol!...and each time I hear things I haven't heard the previous x hundred times - _*insane!!*_




  


pctazhp said:


> Thank you very much for your kind words. I don't know which of my posts you are referring to, or maybe all of them, but I will continue to try to live up to your high praise. Oh sorry!!! You weren't talking about me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Once again, my dear pct..._*listen to your pupil/fellow-co-sanatorium-in-prospect @connieflyer*_ LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...he knows what he's talking about (???!!!???)...even if his voice recognition software _doesn't_ half the time!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 All I can say is you, mon ami, are in for a VERY pleasant surprise... CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

Yeah, PCT I resemble that remark, and H you don't want anymore old's that you have, trust me on that!


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> Hey @hypnos1 reading all these sentiments about you appearing as Frank Sinatra... or _"somewhere"_ in the crowd LOL, now about how you're supposedly 3x 2x old makes me wonder if you can't be that old, can you? Methinks it's about time for a tad bid of 'show & tell', maybe we can put the face behind the name of the Euforia startup, CJ. Of course that's up to you if you post an older photo, HaHa.


 
  
 Hi DL...for better or worse, you can see me in motion at my Christmas time box opening of where it all started...the Elise...    :


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...for better or worse, you can see me in motion at my Christmas time box opening of where it all started...the Elise...    :


 
  
 LOL, @Lorspeaker  look clean finger nails. You should be happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What happen to Lors.
  
 Seeing Elise for the first time is exciting. Unboxing Euforia is even more exciting. It is now a polished diamond and feels good to the touch. Certainly worth every single dollar of the $1399 and believe me, in my humble opinion, it is now worth $2000 easily.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> So glad you guys are finally enjoying your Euforias! Took you about 1500 posts to get there (!)
> 
> As for me, I'll just keep on listening to my EL12spez/EL 11 (soon to be replaced by TFK EL12) and patiently wait for @UntilThen to A/B the Svetlana/Psvane combo on the Elise!
> 
> (ok, I get it, not likely—at least not expecting it to happen any time soon! Enjoy your new amp my friend!)


 
  
 Thanks apsi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Too right. No A/B is going to happen for a while. Not till I exhaust Tidal's whole library and then go through mine with Audirvana Plus 3.
  
 You are going to love Euforia. La la land never sounded so good. You are sounding more and more like the character in your Avatar.


----------



## UntilThen

At 6am in the morning, when half the world is asleep, in the quietness of my man cave, I'm listening to 'Comfortably Numb' .... again... and this time with Euforia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I'm a lover of classic rock despite all the other genre I listen to.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> This morning I'm listening to Sylvania 6SN7WGT/Slotted Bendix 6080. Don't know how it gets any better than this.


 
  
 Pct I'll explain it in pictures for you. 
  
 Euforia is shod with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c and Elise is with Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb slotted. Both are connected to my DAC. A/b .. ing is simply a matter of plugging my headphone jack from one amp to the other. Whilst I'm not in a serious A/B mode at the moment, It's quite evident that Euforia sounded much better to my ears ..... even though Elise has the more expensive tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Pct I'll explain it in pictures for you.
> 
> Euforia is shod with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c and Elise is with Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb slotted. Both are connected to my DAC. A/b .. ing is simply a matter of plugging my headphone jack from one amp to the other. Whilst I'm not in a serious A/B mode at the moment, It's quite evident that Euforia sounded much better to my ears ..... even though Elise has the more expensive tubes.


 

 We are very fortunate that a person like you who has gained our trust as a sensible and reliable source of information regarding many different tubes used in Elise, now has both Elise and Euforia you can audition side-by-side. That will provide us extremely helpful information on different tubes for use in Euforia in the future. I also fell better about having notified Likasz to put me in line for shipment. Will look forward to your ongoing reports.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm looking at this DAC with interest. Just waiting for more impressions of it first. Let others be the guinea pigs to do a longer term test. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's a R2R dac and has the connections I'm interested in. Both XLR and RCA. Makes tube amp comparison a snap. Can connect both amps and listen at the same time.


----------



## HPLobster

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...for better or worse, you can see me in motion at my Christmas time box opening of where it all started...the Elise...    :




 This video I stumbled upon on youtube a few month ago was one of two reasons the Elise caught my attention in the first place....
 This and the praise it got from a guy named "Shaffer" over "there"... they dissed him without end but later on (after Shaffer got banned) admitted that the Elise is the real deal...
 Site should be renamed SuperWorstDoucheBags...
  
edit: wasn´t aware of this


----------



## pctazhp

hplobster said:


> This video I stumbled upon on youtube a few month ago was one of two reasons the Elise caught my attention in the first place....
> This and the praise it got from a guy named "Shaffer" over at "there"... they dissed him without end but later on (after Shaffer got banned) admitted that the Elise is the real deal...
> Site should be renamed SuperWorstDoucheBags...


 

 I think that video may have been my early introduction to Elise. I figured if some guy that handsome like it, the Elise had to be good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't think the moderators allow mention of that site on HeadFi, but maybe you are ok with your renaming it


----------



## hypnos1

hplobster said:


> This video I stumbled upon on youtube a few month ago was one of two reasons the Elise caught my attention in the first place....
> This and the praise it got from a guy named "Shaffer" over "there"... they dissed him without end but later on (after Shaffer got banned) admitted that the Elise is the real deal...
> Site should be renamed SuperWorstDoucheBags...


 
  
 Aaahhh, HPL...a fortuitous stumble indeed lol!...interesting...as is your mention of the unmentionable(!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...a place where I too was mauled mercilessly simply for daring to suggest 'alternative' tubes!! Luckily, by then, I'd developed a bit of a thicker hide in tubeampdom, and just left 'em to it!!
  
 Glad you were tempted way back then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(a shame Euforia was hardly even a twinkle in the eye at that time!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).


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## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm looking at this DAC with interest. Just waiting for more impressions of it first. Let others be the guinea pigs to do a longer term test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Come on UT. Get with the program. You need Utopia and this DAC before end of year:
 https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-terminator-r2r-dac


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Seeing your two amps side to side I could only wonder what would happen if you switched the tubes? Something tells me that the Euforia will perform even better...
  
 I know it is early in the game, but how would you rank the PsVane tubes compared to other great sounding drivers?
  
 IMHO PsVane is doing a lot of marketing in selling the same tube in different colors and packaging at different price points, although maybe there are differences - like between the WE421A and the TS5998. I really don't know if anybody has compared the different renditions of PsVane's CV181/6SN7.
  
 Is the tube supplied with the Euforia the UK edition?


----------



## connieflyer

Some vocal for you UT


----------



## UntilThen

CF I really would love to listen with my headphone and Euforia now but alas I'm working...

Pct, Terminator and Utopia will come close to $8000. My budget is more down to earth.


----------



## drwlf

hypnos1 said:


> Aaahhh, HPL...a fortuitous stumble indeed lol!...interesting...as is your mention of the unmentionable(!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just saw the video as you linked it, and it made a smile on my face! The candid enthusiasm! The world is indeed a better place because it exists.


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Seeing your two amps side to side I could only wonder what would happen if you switched the tubes? Something tells me that the Euforia will perform even better...
> 
> ...


 

 Hey @mordy, I think @hypnos1 has some experience with the Psvane CV181.
  
 As for the UK–6sn7, for what it's worth yesterday I went off EL mode for a second and inserted the Psvane drivers in the place of the TFK EL11. It immediately became apparent that they actually introduce _a lot_ _of decay_ in the sound, whilst retaining clear mids, airy highs and spacious presentation. This also revealed that the EL12 [spez] introduce that _'oomph'_ part, which, in my case, really feels like actual atmospheric pressure on my eardrums—and it even actually hurts although I'm listening at 8 o'clock. Once I changed them for the Svetlanas the sound immediately got very laid back—including no pain to my eardrums—without messing too much with the presentation of the Psvanes. Should be noted though, that I see how the EL12 ARE SUPERIOR to the Svetlanas (happy @UntilThen?), but I can't afford to listen to them all the time without feeling my eardrums hurt! (Perhaps I should be using a different pair of headphones?)
  
 So there you have it. By my own listening, the ELs and the Psvanes are two very different beasts. The former introduces a very dynamic sound, with great authority and detail, but it can actually hurt my eardrums. The Psvane create an euphonic effect, mostly by introducing some reverberation to the overall sound. Lastly, I'd say the Svetlanas introduce a more mid–forward sound while retaining the analytical presentation. I find that this complements the Psvanes nicely, albeit I'm now interested to see whether I can improve on this sound signature. Given the experience of this crowd, I'm thinking about driving the EL12 with the EF86, and/or seeking another, more refined, alternative to the Svetlanas (say, the TS 5998?). The GE 6080 are fun, but I think they muddle the airy presentation of the Psvanes.
  
 Still haven't found the time to arrange a meeting with Stavros, but I'm really depending on it for my next step. And it would also be nice to get my hands on to some alternative headphones to check out the differences with the HD600.


----------



## UntilThen

On the 3rd day of my listening session with Euforia, the heavens open.....  and Sydney got a really good drenching ... ... ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alright let's get back to earth.......  To be honest, at the end of a working day, the last thing I want to do is critical listening. All I want is a ear massage and sensory titillations. This I get by just listening to music with Euforia and T1.
  
 ...but before I start up the amp, Mordy's words were ringing in my ears. 'What if I switch the tubes between Euforia and Elise'. That's what I did. So Euforia gets Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb and Elise gets Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c. To my disappointment, neither of the 2 combinations sounded better than Euforia with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c.
  
 Euforia with stock tubes sounded airy, open, clear high notes, lovely mids and nice kick to the bass and nether region. For 3 days straight, I've been rushing home to listen to that tone again. FYI, Elise with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c sounded better to me than Elise with Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb. 
  
 So @angpsi you don't have to make me happy by saying that EL tubes sounded better than the stock tubes* because right now I'm feeling the stock tubes. *




  
 My advice to you apsi, is to save your money and don't splurge it on tubes. Instead use your money and buy Euforia and a HD800 or T1..... and live happily ever after.


----------



## UntilThen

The Psvane that came with Euforia has the words 'UK 6SN7' printed on the tube glass. On the box, it says HiFi vacuum tube. The best or nothing !
  
 I guess I will be content with the best rather than nothing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In my assessment, Psvane 6sn7 is a bright tube with a big, airy, open and clear presence. It does not sound like a 6sn7. It does pair very well with the warm and bass enriched Svetlana 6h13c. I'm sure you will find better combinations but at the moment I am very happy with Henryk's choice.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Euforia with stock tubes sounded airy, open, clear high notes, lovely mids and nice kick to the bass and nether region. For 3 days straight, I've been rushing home to listen to that tone again. FYI, Elise with Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c sounded better to me than Elise with Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb.
> So @angpsi you don't have to make me happy by saying that EL tubes sounded better than the stock tubes* because right now I'm feeling the stock tubes. *
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Omg, you're gonna be the end of me!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Omg, you're gonna be the end of me!


 
  
 Just listen to this. It will all make sense.


----------



## UntilThen

For once, I didn't feel like rolling tubes in a hurry. I'm just enjoying Euforia as she matures in tone and proper burn in. Remember even Feliks Audio says that optimal sound quality will be reached only after 30 to 50 hours. I'm not even there yet. In my opinion, it should be 100 hours. 
  
 I've to get this ready for this Sunday's Sydney Can Con. Lots of headphones and amps to try there. Euforia will be going there with stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really loving what I'm hearing now with Euforia + Psvane 6sn7 + Svetlana 6h13c + T1. Such purity of tone with the blackest black and total absence of any interference.
  
 Funny how I don't switch on my Elise and La Figaro now. Just me and my Euforia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh Euforia with stock tubes don't feel very warm after several hours of operation.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> For once, I didn't feel like rolling tubes in a hurry. I'm just enjoying Euforia as she matures in tone and proper burn in. Remember even Feliks Audio says that optimal sound quality will be reached only after 30 to 50 hours. I'm not even there yet. In my opinion, it should be 100 hours.
> 
> I've to get this ready for this Sunday's Sydney Can Con. Lots of headphones and amps to try there. Euforia will be going there with stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT.
  
 I agree on the length of burn-in...she definitely keeps improving well beyond the 50 hours! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully yours will be firing on all cylinders come Sunday...and GOOD LUCK with her showcasing - I'm sure you'll do a great marketing job lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And it's really good news that the stock tubes are performing so well. Sounds like the PsV 6SN7 could well be more exciting than the much more expensive CV181 TII lol!!!
  
 On the subject of burn-in and @angpsi's mention of "oomph" from the EL12 Spezials, that is precisely what I've actually been waiting for from my NOS TFKs LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....but it does show the "different gear, different ears" aspect of headphone use especially. We all have different sensitivities/requirements re. our hearing, which is indeed a major factor that can scupper big time the 'appropriateness/relevance' of our personal impressions on the final sound delivery!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, I'm happy to say that they have just had a "magical moment" in the stages of tube burn-in, that I have mentioned a few times in the past with different NOS tubes - especially the EL3N. Not only has the sub-bass improved - for _*my*_ ears lol! - but the _slight_ top end sharpness is now sweet as honey. And whereas the incremental improvement has been fairly gradual up until now, from just yesterday this particular change was much more of a leap....(possibly helped along by hitting the repeat button for a whole day on a couple of Sade's "Soldier of Fortune" album tracks that have "oomph" galore!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







). Whatever, the sudden change has once again confirmed (for me) certain 'milestones' in the process of tubes that need long burn-in especially. Plus, I'm quite sure that the degree noticed will depend a fair bit on the headphones used - all I know is that these wonderful Beyer T1s pick out the subtlest of changes, not just the more obvious ones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And even more so now with Euforia than Elise...


----------



## hypnos1

drwlf said:


> I just saw the video as you linked it, and it made a smile on my face! The candid enthusiasm! The world is indeed a better place because it exists.


 
  
 Thanks for your kind words on my very amateurish attempt at a video lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and glad it encouraged others to dive in - to a degree that I (and Feliks-Audio!) never dreamt of!!
  
 And also glad that it has enriched - and continues to do so - the lives of a good many lucky folks. Hopefully this will be repeated with Euforia...and from the look of it so far, I think F-A have indeed surpassed themselves once again...particularly Pop Henryk, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I toast him every night as I sip my glass of wine with dinner....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....and will give him a BIG hug if he manages (hopefully!) to make it to CanJam London in July, along with other members of the marvellous Feliks family...).
  
 "The world is indeed a better place"....good words, drwlf...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning gentlemen, (you too PCT) reading ang's post about eardrums hurting after using the EL12 spez then going back to stock tubes with no pain, I could no longer resist the temptation to try the EL11 and EL12n that H got for me. Up till now have only used the stock setup, and it is a really good setup. Very articulate, accurate and very easy to listen to.  However in my setup, Senn 800, I found the sound to be, a little thin. Don't get me wrong, it is a great sound, but my preference is for more oomph!. So decided to try the new tubes and what can I say, it is just what I was missing in the stock tubes.  Everything that the stock tubes gave me in clarity and accuracy, I now have that plus the total oomph package that I so love. The mesh plate is singing great songs to me and the 12n's supply ample power, obvious with new position of vol pot compared to stock tubes. What I was wondering was if the EL12 spez provide a little too much oomph for ang's case , if he would be better suited to the EL12n's? It would be a cheap way to get all the benefits of the EL11-12n without the added power of the spez.  H has had both and maybe he could shed some light on the subject. And by the way can not thank H enough for all he has done to further our collective enjoyment of this new entry into musical goodness. Oh my Eva Cassidy's Autumn Leaves just came on and it is an amazing combination, trying to record all the different sounds of her amazing voice and her guitar, then the piano coming in. She was such an amazing talent, truly miss her.  Well, let H take it from here and try to determine the difference he heard between the 12n and the spez. I leave you with goodness....


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again folks....just a quick  *REMINDER ABOUT EUFORIA'S SOCKETS....*
  
 Until they've been 'worn' a good while, they can indeed be *VERY* tight, especially with certain tubes and pins that aren't gold-plated. Even with mine that are nice and smooth (gold), I have to work them gently and gradually - _*BY THE BASE ONLY!! *_- and _carefully_ at the final pull lol! And as I mentioned previously, leave a slight gap at the socket when inserting, just in case you need to help things along using a flat-bladed screwdriver...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

One more word of advice, to folks on the fence, you may want to purchase one of these, as the word is getting out, on how good these amps really are. I can see where they may in short supply, long wait times, and eventual price hikes. This amp does in fact deserve the price point and probably more. It would be hard to find an amp that hits all the high points and has such potential, with tube rolling and even just using stock tubes. The design is just a little more subtle that the Elise with the matte black finish. With the small increase in physical size, the proportions are better.  Looks like it should cost more and probably will down the road. I am very glad I listened to @hypnos1 he was the one that convinced me to invest in the new amp. And I feel it is an investment, one that will grow in value, both in monetary and in satisfaction. I make this disclaimer, I have no connection with Feliks-Audio other than a very satisfied customer, Back to the music


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> One more word of advice, to folks on the fence, you may want to purchase one of these, as the word is getting out, on how good these amps really are. I can see where they may in short supply, long wait times, and eventual price hikes. This amp does in fact deserve the price point and probably more. It would be hard to find an amp that hits all the high points and has such potential, with tube rolling and even just using stock tubes. The design is just a little more subtle that the Elise with the matte black finish. With the small increase in physical size, the proportions are better.  Looks like it should cost more and probably will down the road. I am very glad I listened to @hypnos1 he was the one that convinced me to invest in the new amp. And I feel it is an investment, one that will grow in value, both in monetary and in satisfaction. I make this disclaimer, I have no connection with Feliks-Audio other than a very satisfied customer, Back to the music


 

 Good morning oh great one. I wake up this morning seeing email from Lukasz that my Euforia will be arriving here in US around the end of April and then I see your encouraging post. He reports they are quite busy, which is nice to hear.
  
 BTW, he recommended shipping by EMS for extra $35, which I will do.
  
 I'm still working on my first cup of morning coffee and don't have any music selection to add to your morning enjoyment. But will not hesitate to share if anything special comes along.


----------



## Frederick Rea

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT.
> 
> I agree on the length of burn-in...she definitely keeps improving well beyond the 50 hours!
> 
> ...


 
 I have those PSvane CV181 TII since the begining of my Elise way. I really don´t know how to compare sonically PSVane 6SN7 (I think the first version) from version II (CV181 TII) because I don´t have version 1. I am talking based on Elise, so NO silver wiring. They have a little bit loss in transparency on treble zone, so equalization is not *homogeneous* and a little bit on the wiped out side. Good bass at low frequencies. But here with Euforia this could change as we all know that "silver wiring" is more transparent and sparkling than copper. Copper gives more colour to the sound, not so clean. I think this is to the taste of each one seen the whole circuit creates colour (including tubes, caps)


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## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Just listen to this. It will all make sense.





 Of course Norah is totally great. Carol King also had a nice version of this song. But from my early childhood "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" will always belong to the Shirrelles. For me, something especially haunting about their 1961 original version.


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> I have those PSvane CV181 TII since the begining of my Elise way. I really don´t know how to compare sonically PSVane 6SN7 (I think the first version) from version II (CV181 TII) because I don´t have version 1. I am talking based on Elise, so NO silver wiring. They have a little bit loss in transparency on treble zone, so equalization is not *homogeneous* *and a little bit on the wiped out side*. Good bass at low frequencies. But here with Euforia this could change as we all know that "silver wiring" is more transparent and sparkling than copper. Copper gives more colour to the sound, not so clean. I think this is to the taste of each one seen* the whole circuit creates colour (including tubes, caps)*


 
  
 Hi F R...yes sir!...despite their other undoubted qualities (and very nice-looking!), the TIIs fall down in the 'body' stakes alas, IMHO. They leave you wanting more 'meat' lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...especially once you've heard the EL11/12 combos! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







....
  
 I do also believe the circuitry has a far greater influence on final sound than many appreciate lol!...as confirmed by Henryk Feliks's insistence on wishing to persevere with his new Dale/Caddock resistor circuits, despite initial failure due to overheating. They must have impressed him pretty big time to convince him, I should think!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## connieflyer

Just another quick update. I have been trying the new Euforia has a preamp and this is really where it shines more than the Elise did. I had used the Elise as a preamp and liked it but now with this new amplifier it is considerably better as a preamp than the Elise was. Clarity and body of sound are really amazing. I have a very decent HiFi setup and using this new amplifier as a preamp really pushes that system even further. When you get a chance you have to try it I'm sure you will like it.


----------



## Frederick Rea

hypnos1 said:


> Hi F R...yes sir!...despite their other undoubted qualities (and very nice-looking!), the TIIs fall down in the 'body' stakes alas, IMHO. They leave you wanting more 'meat' lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's why* I do not* compare Elise with Euphoria, although the outer appearance is very identical and the circuits equivalent, as are all OTL. They are distinct amplifiers with totally different sound signature. I spoke to Lucasz and I mentioned the possibility that with silver wires there would be the sound on the bright or very bright side. It was (according to him) his first care. As I said the new "set" seems balanced. As for deciding to me by Euphoria, I have an earing problem on the highs due to war damage. At around 3000Hz I have a damage pitch, so I am not a releable source of information unless this is taken into account


----------



## Frederick Rea

https://youtu.be/IEJqvmq9ACw


----------



## svmusa

connieflyer said:


> Just another quick update. I have been trying the new Euforia has a preamp and this is really where it shines more than the Elise did. I had used the Elise as a preamp and liked it but now with this new amplifier it is considerably better as a preamp than the Elise was. Clarity and body of sound are really amazing. I have a very decent HiFi setup and using this new amplifier as a preamp really pushes that system even further. When you get a chance you have to try it I'm sure you will like it.


 
 Glad to hear this.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again folks....just a quick  *REMINDER ABOUT EUFORIA'S SOCKETS....*
> 
> *Until they've been 'worn' a good while*, they can indeed be *VERY* tight, especially with certain tubes and pins that aren't gold-plated. Even with mine that are nice and smooth (gold), I have to work them gently and gradually - _*BY THE BASE ONLY!! *_- and _carefully_ at the final pull lol! And as I mentioned previously, leave a slight gap at the socket when inserting, just in case you need to help things along using a flat-bladed screwdriver...
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Alright folks, I've decided to share this with you. What H1 means is that UntilThen was almost worn out by those darn sockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I came home last night and was eager to swap the tubes between Euforia and Elise but those Svetlana power tubes just refused to budge. So I try wiggling it but I was holding the glass to get some leverage. Then lo and behold the power tube disintegrated before my eyes and bionic fingers. I can't belief I have cracked my power tube. 
  
 Anyway long story short, I clean up the mess and fortunately having a spare Svetlana 6h13c, I replace the tube with one thumb missing now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So folks, no quick changes with those tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyway having experienced a death defying episode, I decide I should try EL12N as drivers and EL12 as powers again in Euforia.
  
 Holy 'Peter, Paul and Mary', my Euforia came alive. At 2:40am, I was listening to Randy Crawford's Rio De Janeiro Blue first on the stock tubes then on the EL bad boys. All of a sudden, my earthly cave at this quiet hour came alive with Brazilian serenade. So excuse me while I do a little samba here.


----------



## UntilThen

frederick rea said:


> I have those PSvane CV181 TII since the begining of my Elise way. I really don´t know how to compare sonically PSVane 6SN7 (I think the first version) from version II (CV181 TII) because I don´t have version 1.* I am talking based on Elise, so NO silver wiring*. They have a little bit loss in transparency on treble zone, so equalization is not *homogeneous* and a little bit on the wiped out side. Good bass at low frequencies. But here with Euforia this could change as we all know that "silver wiring" is more transparent and sparkling than copper. Copper gives more colour to the sound, not so clean. I think this is to the taste of each one seen the whole circuit creates colour (including tubes, caps)


 
  
 You are right Fred. Elise has no silver wiring but the change in tone on Euforia is definitely the sum of all those upgrade and revised circuitry, notably the caps, resistor, power transformer, silver wiring, gold plated RCAs.... etc etc. When I go 'goo goo ga ga' on Euforia's magic with the stock tubes, it's because she's a new sparkling tuned amp and even stock tubes sounds great on her.
  
 If you look at the upgrade on the DNA Stratus, some of the changes include caps and resistors using Audio Note's fame components. That spawn the Stellaris. I think that's what it's call and it's $6700 for unbalanced RCA version and $8900 for balanced xlr version compared to the Stratus at $3000.


----------



## UntilThen

This song came on when listening to Randy Crawford on Tidal. I just have to share it with you. I'm a 100% sure Randy sounded a lot more sweeter with Euforia.


----------



## Frederick Rea

untilthen said:


> You are right Fred. Elise has no silver wiring but the change in tone on Euforia is definitely* the sum of all those upgrade and revised circuitry*, notably the caps, resistor, power transformer, silver wiring, gold plated RCAs.... etc etc. When I go 'goo goo ga ga' on Euforia's magic with the stock tubes, it's because she's a new sparkling tuned amp and even stock tubes sounds great on her.
> 
> If you look at the upgrade on the DNA Stratus, some of the changes include caps and resistors using Audio Note's fame components. That spawn the Stellaris. I think that's what it's call and it's $6700 for unbalanced RCA version and $8900 for balanced xlr version compared to the Stratus at $3000.


 
 I would not call it "upgrade".Only (and that is enough) another different sound. The difference in sound approach, especially timbre is a DIFERENT sound. Not better or worth, just different. If you like it better than the other that's OK, but different. I must insist on this since there is a tendency to undervalue Elise in terms of fidelity over benefiting Euphoria. Some will not endure or like (physically not perception) the brightness of Euforia. Some will prefer the "colour" of the valves more pronounced in Elise. It is the taste of each one. Often the price of the components leads to raising the total price without benefit of performance. The total price is defined by the "consumers". In this area the more expensive the better and unique, showing exclusivity (in counterpoint with the masses) - marketing. I am very happy with my ELISE and I will stay with her. Certainly, there will be market for other amplifiers. Good luck ELISE and EUFORIA as cousins. Best of all is Feliks Audio family


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## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Alright folks, I've decided to share this with you. What H1 means is that UntilThen was almost worn out by those darn sockets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...I commend you for your courageous honesty, but must admonish you for not taking my advice lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...you could have done yourself some serious injury there, my good friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(mind you, I too was remiss in only worrying about possibly pulling the tube out of its base 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...forgot about your possible (nasty!) experience!! Which has me thinking that perhaps either you have _*very*_ strong hands, or the glass in those Russkies leaves a bit to be desired?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 Whatever, you have at least confirmed that my suggestions are valid LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...so yes..._*PLEASE BE CAREFUL, FOLKS*_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Glad you survived your unfortunate experience though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


untilthen said:


> Anyway having experienced a death defying episode, I decide I should try EL12N as drivers and EL12 as powers again in Euforia.
> 
> Holy 'Peter, Paul and Mary', my *Euforia came alive. *At 2:40am, I was listening to Randy Crawford's Rio De Janeiro Blue first on the stock tubes then on the EL bad boys. All of a sudden, my earthly cave at this quiet hour came alive with Brazilian serenade. So excuse me while I do a little samba here.




  
 Yo UT...these EL tubes certainly do bring out Euforia's dynamic presentation in all its glory lol!...but without loss of control, cohesion, balance etc. etc....simply *glorious*...


----------



## mordy

Hi folks,
  
 OR: YIPPIEEEEEEE
  
 My Euforia arrived today!. Took 6 days from PL to US.
  
 First impression: The box looks a little beat up - worrying about CF's bent RCA plugs. As i unpack the amp I understood why it could happen. The back of the amp is very close to the outside box, and the only separation is a soft layer of foam sheet. It had been chewed through almost through and through by the RCA plugs, but luckily no damage. Perhaps a thicker grade cardboard box or an extra layer of a sturdier sheet, or both,  at the back of the amp would be advisable.
  
 Second impression: No white dot on the volume control; just a black thin groove that is hard to see for me. Nothing that a little white-out can't cure....
  
 Third impression: The feet seem substantial and seem to have a sticky layer as well.
  
 Forth impression: The on light is whitish and too timid for me - liked the old blue one better, but, who cares?
  
 Put in my preferred tube combination from the Elise. It sounded a bit thin. Did my customary humpfrey test: No music playing, the amp at full tilt and my ss 110W amp at max. Sorry to say, but the same minor hum that I have with the Elise. It is not a problem, because it only occurs at listening levels that are too loud for comfort and my ears.
  
 Cannot say that I was mesmerized from the first moment, quite the opposite....
  
*DO NOT WORRY h*1!  Read on....
  
 Swapped in what UT just tried - a pair of EL12N and a pair of EL12. As usual, I had to apply the Faraday kitchen aluminum foil around one of the EL12 tubes to make it hum less.
  
 After a little while (auto bias circuit getting used to my tube choices?) the sound improved markedly. More oomph as CF says; the sound is full and dynamic. Compared to Elise the sound stage is wider. There is more detail, more bite, more clarity, more liveliness - the timbre is different but beautiful, there is overall more energy.
  
 In short, I am sitting here tapping my toes and grinning from ear to ear. Vocals are even more natural than with the Elise.
  
 I think that I am going to get along very well with the Euforia.....
  
 PS. Before I started using Euforia I plugged in my socket savers to see if they were hard to remove. As it turns out, even pushed in all the way they are not too difficult to remove, so I don't need to leave a little gap to pry them out. In addition, there is some kind of raised ring around the sockets, unlike the Elise, and they might get scratched from prying with  the blade of a screwdriver.


----------



## hypnos1

frederick rea said:


> I would not call it "upgrade".Only (and that is enough) another different sound. The difference in sound approach, especially timbre is a DIFERENT sound. Not better or worth, just different. If you like it better than the other that's OK, but different. I must insist on this since there is a tendency to undervalue Elise in terms of fidelity over benefiting Euphoria. Some will not endure or like (physically not perception) the brightness of Euforia. Some will prefer the "colour" of the valves more pronounced in Elise. It is the taste of each one. Often the price of the components leads to raising the total price without benefit of performance. The total price is defined by the "consumers". In this area the more expensive the better and unique, showing exclusivity (in counterpoint with the masses) - marketing. I am very happy with my ELISE and I will stay with her. Certainly, there will be market for other amplifiers. Good luck ELISE and EUFORIA as cousins. Best of all is Feliks Audio family


 
  
 Hi F R...I'm certainly not going to get immersed (submerged lol!!) in the never-will-end "differences" vs "improvements" debate, but I feel I must make just a couple of points in reply to your post.
  
 1. There must, by definition, be a difference between "different" sound and "improvements" in sound...such aspects as detail resolution; instrument and voice placement/separation; dynamics handling; frequency extremes handling etc. are completely _tangible_ aspects of sound reproduction and final delivery, and will be managed to varying degrees of competence...thus on a scale from low to high 'grade', not merely 'different' lol.
  
 2. In stating that Euforia can in fact perform these duties to a higher level of competence in _*no way*_ denigrates the performance of Elise...which has in fact been stressed many times before, and I'm sure is taken as granted by most folks...and if not yet, hopefully this will reassure them.
  
 3. I'm afraid I simply cannot agree with your statement that over-emphasises the "brightness of Euforia". I don't really know why you should say that...I personally have found Euforia to be _*no brighter whatsoever*_ than Elise...the only 'brightness' dependent upon the tubes chosen, especially when NOS, of course.
  
 4. You imply that 'often', implementing 'upgrades' via more expensive components doesn't necessarily result in improved performance, and is merely a marketing ploy. Of course this is indeed often the case..._*BUT*_...one mustn't therefore assume this is universal. There are also _*many*_ instances where such inevitably increased prices *are* beneficial, and it is almost an insult to group (by implication) into the 'masses' both those manufacturers who do genuinely bring such benefits - at a price, and those who correctly recognise, appreciate, and are willing to pay that premium for something 'better'. This principle holds true not just in our context, of course!
  
 At the end of the day, Elise and Euforia are indeed cousins...different in _many_ ways, but also in respect to the points I've just mentioned....and I'm quite sure dear Henryk regards his new baby as something more than "just an amp with a different sound" (not your quote)...it goes much deeper than that - or so I should hope LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. But this is just my own particular view on the subject...to each his own...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!!...


----------



## mordy

Hi FR,
  
 It is now a couple of hours of listening to the Euforia and it keeps keeps on improving. I agree that it is not an upgrade of the Elise; it is a different amp.
  
 I has MORE of everything.
  
 But it is not a matter of taste only. IMHO it really sounds better. I assume that you have auditioned both amps. Perhaps you did not spend enough time with the Euforia to realize it's superiority, something that I am just beginning to appreciate. And the Euforia keeps on improving....
  
 The bass is becoming glorious and fully controlled in the deepest frequencies.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> OR: YIPPIEEEEEEE
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great news, mordy...both on her arrival unscathed (just about lol!...Lukasz has indeed been informed of the need to review their packaging!!), and her giving you the chase around...just like any half decent seductress!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... But I knew you would soon fall for her charms - and these early hours are no proper yardstick, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Am really glad you're liking it already...just you wait 'til all those extra details start popping out at you - that old cliche "hearing things I never heard before" kicks in BIG time...and don't just take _my_ word for it lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Glad you're finding the sockets no problem at the moment...but there are some tubes' pins that can stick in like glue, unfortunately, so my advice/warning stays in place for those less lucky. And _*if*_ the screwdriver trick is ever needed, shouldn't be a problem to cover and protect those raised rings.
  
 I suspect those poor toes of yours will soon be red raw...but all in a good cause lol!  ENJOY!...and keep us informed on how things develop...(as if I have to tell you, m!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)....CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1  Everything you say above makes a lot of sense to me. However, I can't speak from personal experience though because I won't have my Euforia until end of April. I didn't realize @Frederick Rea already had experience with Euforia to make the comparison with Elise he did.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1  Everything you say above makes a lot of sense to me. However, I can't speak from personal experience though because I won't have my Euforia until end of April. I didn't realize @Frederick Rea already had experience with Euforia to make the comparison with Elise he did.


 
  
 End of April, pct?...no need to copy @connieflyer's unfortunate delay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but hopefully the time will begin to fly as the weather improves(??!!)...(bet you're glad you don't live in Michigan lol!!!...sorry, cf...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

At the risk of being redundant I would like to State unequivocally that having had the Elise and now the Euforia, the difference is quite startling. The increase in the width of the Sound Stage as stated before also the clarity, that is the one thing that is so surprising that the individual notes are all presented in such a manner that the whole experience leads to a lot more enjoyment of the music itself. A presentation is clear and present and very expansive. This is not an upgrade this is a new amplifier as far as I'm concerned. The new components all add up to a new experience in my estimation. The enjoyment of the music is now heightened from what it was with the Elise. Not that the Elise was bad far from it is a great amplifier it's just that this amplifier is so much more of everything. It's not just one aspect bass mid treble this is the whole complete package. I am very satisfied that I've got more than my money's worth on this purchase


----------



## connieflyer

No problem on the weather front h Its a bright beautiful sunny day here true it's only 38 degrees Fahrenheit but it's getting better. PCT if you start to have anxiety attacks because your new amplifier is not going to be ready till the end of April then please visit me and I will let you listen to my amplifier for 20 minutes a day at a very reduced rate for you only


----------



## Frederick Rea

frederick rea said:


> I have those PSvane CV181 TII since the begining of my Elise way. I really don´t know how to compare sonically PSVane 6SN7 (I think the first version) from version II (CV181 TII) because I don´t have version 1. I am talking based on Elise, so NO silver wiring. They have a little bit loss in transparency on treble zone, so equalization is not *homogeneous* and a little bit on the wiped out side. Good bass at low frequencies. But here with Euforia this could change as we all know that "silver wiring" is more transparent and sparkling than copper. Copper gives more colour to the sound, not so clean. I think this is to the taste of each one seen the whole circuit creates colour (including tubes, caps)



 


frederick rea said:


> That's why* I do not* compare Elise with Euphoria, although the outer appearance is very identical and the circuits equivalent, as are all OTL. They are distinct amplifiers with totally different sound signature. I spoke to Lucasz and I mentioned the possibility that with silver wires there would be the sound on the bright or very bright side. It was (according to him) his first care. As I said the new "set" seems balanced. As for deciding to me by Euphoria, I have an earing problem on the highs due to war damage. At around 3000Hz I have a damage pitch, so I am not a releable source of information unless this is taken into account



 


hypnos1 said:


> Hi F R...yes sir!...despite their other undoubted qualities (and very nice-looking!), the TIIs fall down in the 'body' stakes alas, IMHO. They leave you wanting more 'meat' lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi H1 and friends
I hereby come to remember what I said regarding "upgrade" "Improvement" "different" "other". "Bright side"
I did (still) not buy (still) Euforia "and speaking of silver wiring and the bright side of it with Lucasz, he said that was his first concern, but that in the end after marrying everything Euforia finalized great.
I did not "imply" NOTHING
I agree only this:
"I'm certainly not going to get immersed (submerged lol !!) in the never-will-end" differences "vs." improvements "debate..."
I do not imply anything for those who understand in a right way. If someone wants to bend ...I understand that you want to emphasize the correct side of it denying that silver wiring has a different behavior than copper, is it? Even Lucasz has the same question on the begining
It is known the differences between silver wiring and copper wiring.
Sometimes I feel dificult here when not agreeing in everything. Sorry this is my last post here


----------



## DecentLevi

pctazhp said:


> Good morning oh great one. I wake up this morning seeing email from Lukasz that my Euforia will be arriving here in US around the end of April and then I see your encouraging post. He reports they are quite busy, which is nice to hear.
> 
> BTW, he recommended shipping by EMS for extra $35, which I will do.
> 
> I'm still working on my first cup of morning coffee and don't have any music selection to add to your morning enjoyment. But will not hesitate to share if anything special comes along.


 
  
 Not to worry, anyone curious to hear how a combo sounds on the Euforia.
 I myself, being a traveler and experimental kind of guy shan't hesitate to to anything *Spez*ial with the Euforia (within parameters of tested Elise tubes anyway). I've got a mini-museum of 6SN7, EL11/12, EL3N, 6AS7G, 6080, ECC88, 12AU7, Svetlana 6H13C and even a new EF86 tubes, most in top-flight condition. I plan to try many combos for just a bit each until I find my several preferred tones, then let the sound mature with my top combo(s) in time to showcase it (hopefully) at CanJam (save for the Spezials with foil shielding). I'll also be using my socket savers for ease of tube swapping and to save those fine gold sockets.
  
 PS - PCT did you mean yours will be here at the end of March or April?


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> PS - PCT did you mean yours will be here at the end of March or April?


 
 End of April. That is when I originally scheduled delivery before I delayed my move to Ukraine. Recently I changed delivery to USA, but FA couldn't change my delivery date, which is completely understandable.


----------



## HPLobster

untilthen said:


> For once, I didn't feel like rolling tubes in a hurry. I'm just enjoying Euforia as she matures in tone and proper burn in. Remember even Feliks Audio says that optimal sound quality will be reached only after 30 to 50 hours. I'm not even there yet. In my opinion, it should be 100 hours.
> 
> I've to get this ready for this Sunday's Sydney Can Con. Lots of headphones and amps to try there. Euforia will be going there with stock tubes. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> ...





If you enjoy the PsVane/Svetlana-combo that much, you should go on and switch to Mullard 6080s as powers....
Trust me on this


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys you have GOT to check this song out on the Euforia and good tubes for bass... trying this with the Bendix 6080 and 6SN7 Bad Boys (on the Elise anyway) I'm blown away at the impact, clarity and especially mind blowing bass - just imagining how well this could sound on the Euforia, and this is a good quality copy too:
  
The Postal Service - Such Great Heights (John Tejada Remix) 2013 
  
 Appears they're from my hometown Seattle, and here's their full album on Bandcamp


----------



## HOWIE13

decentlevi said:


> Not to worry, anyone curious to hear how a combo sounds on the Euforia.
> I myself, being a traveler and experimental kind of guy shan't hesitate to to anything *Spez*ial with the Euforia (within parameters of tested Elise tubes anyway). I've got a mini-museum of 6SN7, EL11/12, EL3N, 6AS7G, 6080, ECC88, 12AU7, Svetlana 6H13C and even a new EF86 tubes, most in top-flight condition. I plan to try many combos for just a bit each until I find my several preferred tones, then let the sound mature with my top combo(s) in time to showcase it (hopefully) at CanJam (save for the Spezials with foil shielding). I'll also be using my socket savers for ease of tube swapping and to save those fine gold sockets.
> 
> PS - PCT did you mean yours will be here at the end of March or April?


 
  
 You still using foil for the spez?
  
 You should purchase ferrite chokes.


----------



## UntilThen

hplobster said:


> If you enjoy the PsVane/Svetlana-combo that much, you should go on and switch to Mullard 6080s as powers....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the Mullard 6080 and much more...  Any tube rolling is temporary shelf as I rock and roll with Euforia and Psvane and Svetlana. I am so happy right now... it's unbelievable. Today is the 4th day. Remember what was created on the 4th day? All the stars and heavenly bodies. That's what I'm hearing now. Stars !!!
  
 Euforia is starting to firm up now. It's sounding better every day since I first started listening on the 1st day... which is Monday night.


----------



## UntilThen

frederick rea said:


> I would not call it "upgrade".Only (and that is enough) another different sound. The difference in sound approach, especially timbre is a DIFERENT sound. Not better or worth, just different. If you like it better than the other that's OK, but different.* I must insist on this since there is a tendency to undervalue Elise in terms of fidelity over benefiting Euphoria*. Some will not endure or like (physically not perception) the brightness of Euforia. Some will prefer the "colour" of the valves more pronounced in Elise. It is the taste of each one. Often the price of the components leads to raising the total price without benefit of performance. The total price is defined by the "consumers". In this area the more expensive the better and unique, showing exclusivity (in counterpoint with the masses) - marketing. I am very happy with my ELISE and I will stay with her. Certainly, there will be market for other amplifiers. Good luck ELISE and EUFORIA as cousins. Best of all is Feliks Audio family


 
  
 Lukasz wasn't delusional when he said _*'In the sound department, Euforia is a few leagues above Elise'*_. I could not agree more with him after having heard Euforia and Elise side by side. Neither did I think he was undervaluing Elise while praising Euforia. The simple truth is Elise a very good amp but Euforia is a great amp.
  
 The difference between Euforia and Elise is not just tone, textual and colour of their sound. It's about transparency, articulation and palpable excitement.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Swapped in what UT just tried - a pair of EL12N and a pair of EL12. As usual, I had to apply the Faraday kitchen aluminum foil around one of the EL12 tubes to make it hum less.
> 
> After a little while (auto bias circuit getting used to my tube choices?) the sound improved markedly. More oomph as CF says; the sound is full and dynamic. *Compared to Elise the sound stage is wider. There is more detail, more bite, more clarity, more liveliness - the timbre is different but beautiful, there is overall more energy.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad others are hearing what I'm hearing too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Good descriptions Mordy...  very similar to what I say too.


----------



## HPLobster

untilthen said:


> I have the Mullard 6080 and much more...  Any tube rolling is temporary shelf as I rock and roll with Euforia and Psvane and Svetlana. I am so happy right now... it's unbelievable. Today is the 4th day. Remember what was created on the 4th day? All the stars and heavenly bodies. That's what I'm hearing now. Stars !!!
> 
> Euforia is starting to firm up now. It's sounding better every day since I first started listening on the 1st day... which is Monday night.


 

 Haha, I know, I know... I did not mean it completely serious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just saw the parallel to myself a few weeks ago when I talked about liking the Elise with stock tubes so much.....
  
 As I see it, the Feliks Audio amps indeed seem to have a relatively fine set of stock tubes compared to other amps....


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys.
  
 Well, already it looks like @aqsw; @UntilThen; @connieflyer and @mordy have confirmed my own findings on Henryk Feliks's masterpiece - Euforia, which means I can rest a lot easier now and feel secure in the knowledge that you (and Euforia herself lol!) will continue to move this amp further towards the acclaim it truly deserves. My other responsibilites in life are also grateful lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Although I myself have no further desire whatsoever to continue rolling different tubes (this time, finally, I *am* truly content with my lot!), I do look forward to seeing how others find their own favourite combinations performing as time goes by, along with their (undoubted!) enjoyment of such a wonderful amp.
  
 And so to all current and future owners I say...CONGRATULATIONS on choosing Euforia, and thanks especially for doing so on just my own findings...(although there was never any real doubt, or risk, with F-A at the helm lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 But above all...ENJOY...we are all indeed "THE LUCKY ONES".....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

Looks like this Sunday's meet is getting more and more interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing these.... 
  
 Sony MDR-Z1R, Schitt Yggy and Ragnarok.


----------



## UntilThen

Ummm H1, on the 4th day, I'm still enjoying Euforia with the stock tubes. I've tried others but kept going back to Psvane and Svetlana. There's something about the tone of Euforia and these tubes with my T1. It just sound natural, euphonic and relaxing.
  
 I don't know how it's possible but soundstage height and depth is expanded.


----------



## connieflyer

well Euphoria # 005 reporting in, I have about 25 hours or more on her now. If it needs 50 plus hours on it, to really shine I can not fathom what changes will be made. The amp straight out of the box seems to be so cohesive it is hard to imagine how much better this will get. I know it sounds redundant that I keep hearing musical lines in some of the songs that I have listened to, but it is a fact. Bass lines, counter points triangles being struck that attack and decay of piano strings all things and more that I am experiencing. I have a feeling that tube rolling is not going to be high on my list. What I am hearing with EL11 and EL12N is just wonderful.  The stock tubes sounded really good as well, I could see that if those were the only tubes available for use in this amp it would not be short coming.  Happily that is not the case. There will not be any multiple adapters for me. one tube per socket is fine.  As far as sockets being tight, it is true they are a little bit snug, but have had no problem removing tubes. And the more I get used to looking at this amp the better I like it. Visually almost identical to the Elise, but the dimensions being just a little bit larger, gives the overall appearance that look of being a little more substantial. It looks better in the matte black finish as well, and the pilot light has been discussed and I had talked with Lukasz about it before ordering, he said because of the size constraints that was the only color available to them. I am getting to where I like it. It seems smaller, less obtrusive than the blue one was. About the only thing I would change would be the badge on the top. I like the older, larger badge, but that is such a minor thing, but I had to come up with something that did not please me so I guess that would be it. Back to the music


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> well Euphoria # 005 reporting in, I have about 25 hours or more on her now. If it needs 50 plus hours on it, to really shine I can not fathom what changes will be made. The amp straight out of the box seems to be so cohesive it is hard to imagine how much better this will get. I know it sounds redundant that I keep hearing musical lines in some of the songs that I have listened to, but it is a fact. Bass lines, counter points triangles being struck that attack and decay of piano strings all things and more that I am experiencing. I have a feeling that tube rolling is not going to be high on my list. What I am hearing with EL11 and EL12N is just wonderful.  The stock tubes sounded really good as well, I could see that if those were the only tubes available for use in this amp it would not be short coming.  Happily that is not the case. There will not be any multiple adapters for me. one tube per socket is fine.  As far as sockets being tight, it is true they are a little bit snug, but have had no problem removing tubes. And the more I get used to looking at this amp the better I like it. Visually almost identical to the Elise, but the dimensions being just a little bit larger, gives the overall appearance that look of being a little more substantial. It looks better in the matte black finish as well, and the pilot light has been discussed and I had talked with Lukasz about it before ordering, he said because of the size constraints that was the only color available to them. I am getting to where I like it. It seems smaller, less obtrusive than the blue one was. About the only thing I would change would be the badge on the top. I like the older, larger badge, but that is such a minor thing, but I had to come up with something that did not please me so I guess that would be it. Back to the music


 

 Thanks for your informative report. I for one am glad that FA did not radically alter the cosmetics of Elise, but simply improved on a wonderful, classic design. To me a lot of commercially produced tube amps seem either overdone cosmetically or at the other extreme merely glorified DIY designs.
  
 And from what you and others report it seems that Euforia takes SQ to a new level, while maintaining Elise's distinct magic. Despite my crazy-man collection of tubes, I do not particularly enjoy tube-rolling. Getting to this point has not exactly been cheap for me. But it pales in comparison to what I spent back in my speaker-based audiophile days, and yet my enjoyment of recorded music has never been higher. Obviously, my excitement over receiving my own Euforia is also quite high.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> well Euphoria # 005 reporting in, *I have about 25 hours or more on her now. If it needs 50 plus hours on it, to really shine I can not fathom what changes will be made*. *The amp straight out of the box seems to be so cohesive it is hard to imagine how much better this will get.*


 
  
 This man describes it well. When I say on the first day that Euforia sounded very good, I had no idea what 'good' means because the sound is literally evolving each day as I listen. !!!
  
 This is why I would urge all new owners to listen through their Euforia as she burns in. You don't want to miss this experience. And don't go crazy with tube rolling as you burn her in because you're just going to be hit with all kinds of tone.
  
 Now listening to the exciting sound of George Karukas.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Despite my crazy-man collection of tubes, I do not particularly enjoy tube-rolling. *Getting to this point has not exactly been cheap for me. But it pales in comparison to what I spent back in my car audio days,* and yet my enjoyment of recorded music has never been higher. Obviously, my excitement over receiving my own Euforia is also quite high.


 
  
 Hey how do you know so much about me? I spend about 12 grand on 2 Honda Accord professional cars install just about 5 years ago. You have no idea what excitement awaits you.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> Not to worry, anyone curious to hear how a combo sounds on the Euforia.
> I myself, being a traveler and experimental kind of guy shan't hesitate to to anything *Spez*ial with the Euforia (within parameters of tested Elise tubes anyway). I've got a mini-museum of 6SN7, EL11/12, EL3N, 6AS7G, 6080, ECC88, 12AU7, Svetlana 6H13C and even a new EF86 tubes, most in top-flight condition. I plan to try many combos for just a bit each until I find my several preferred tones, then let the sound mature with my top combo(s) in time to showcase it (hopefully) at CanJam (save for the Spezials with foil shielding). I'll also be using my socket savers for ease of tube swapping and to save those fine gold sockets.
> 
> PS - PCT did you mean yours will be here at the end of March or April?


 
  
 You probably have the most tubes amongst all of us now but go easy on Euforia in the early days. Use the ferrite chokes. Your Spez won't need the foil anymore. That's what Howie and apsi says anyway.
  
 I can't use the socket savers like some of you do. When I pull out the tubes, both tube and socket saver would come out together and that defeats the purpose of using those socket savers for me lol.


----------



## mordy

Looking for pictures of excited faces on google images. The children display the purest emotions, but I picked this cartoon:
  
  





  
 Mainly because he seems to be tapping his feet and dancing....
  
 Anyhow, trying to find the Euforia tube combination that bests suits my taste. Tried the GEC 6AS7G with my pseudo K-R 6SN7 tubes. Nice, but not it. (Yesterday I tried EL11/EL6 - good, but not enough oomph which just shows that the Euforia may be different than the Elise regarding what works best.)
  
 Then I tried 4 xEL12N which sounded quite good, but not it. With *IT* I mean that the tube combination sounds magical.
  
 Then back to EL12N as drivers and EL12 as powers. One EL12 tube hums badly, and I am tired of crunching aluminum foil around it. Switched out that one for my only remaining EL12 - a Tungsram (the other one is a Valvo 375V). All the tubes are almost 100% humpfrey.
  
 Now the Euforia sounds right! - this is why I bought it.
  
*Magic, full, realistic, sweet sound - you fill in the rest......*
  




  
 Cute and happy, eh?


----------



## DecentLevi

Well I'd venture to say that with the extra tight sockets on the Eufirua the socket Savers will stay in snug, guess I'll let you know unless Mordy would try it and let us know first


----------



## mordy

HI UT & DL,
  
 The socket savers I have are well worn and quite loose. They stay firmly in the Euforia's grip, and it is very easy to pull out the tubes from the socket savers.
  
 In the past the socket savers served another function - to insulate the amp chassis from the heat of the tubes, but with the Euforia this does not seem necessary with the cool running tubes I am using now.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hey how do you know so much about me? I spend about 12 grand on 2 Honda Accord professional cars install just about 5 years ago. You have no idea what excitement awaits you.


 

 I've had few heroes in my life, but the fact that you spent that much money on car audio certainly places you on that list.
  
 The irony of the fact that the balance of what I owe on Euforia and my taxes will probably both come due on April 15 has not escaped me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that tube rolling with Euforia may become very boring. It may come down to stock tubes or EL11/12. And given the scarcity of the latter, Euforia could end up as an amp primarily used exactly as its creator intended. What a concept!!!
  
 Anyway, as usual I'm just babbling. For now I have an excuse because I don't have Euforia and can't be expected to say anything intelligent about it.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 You well know that It Never Ends - I am sure that there will be more very good choices coming up for the Euforia..
  
  
 Anyhow, yesterday i encountered a new hum problem. Using EL12N as drivers and two EL12 as powers (Tungsram 250V and Valvo 375V) I encountered severe hum listening through various headphones and the VE Monk earbuds.
  
 As you know I use the Euforia as a preamp for speakers and normally I am not listening through headphones. Yesterday I tried it, and suddenly there was severe hum. I could make the hum go away by repositioning the headphone cable in relation to the Euforia, both in distance and angle of the headphone cable.
  
 The amount of hum varied by different headphones. My guess is that the El12 tubes have something to do with this hum which made it impossible to listen when it really hit. As mentioned, moving the headphone cable away from the amp I could make it go away.
  
 No hum problems using speakers.
  
 Any theories or advice?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> You well know that It Never Ends - I am sure that there will be more very good choices coming up for the Euforia..
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry Mordy. I've never had hum problem with my EL11/12 tubes. Seems like maybe you got good advice on the other thread. Because you mention that moving the headphone cable away from the amp eliminates the hum, I'm wondering if a feritite chock on the headphone cable might work.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  did you have to pay custom duties for your Elise? I don't have to for both Elise and Euforia. As soon as they see it's UT, they waived it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On a different topic, when I broke my Svetlana 6h13c, I saw that the glass is really thin. No wonder they crack. If it's the Bendix 6080wb, there's no way I would have crack it. 
  
 Calling the Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c stock tubes is almost sacrilege. It shall now be call PS tubes. This combination on Euforia is really nice. I haven't been doing much tube rolling because I'm simply enjoying music instead with Euforia and my T1.
  
Tomorrow I'll be attending the 2nd Head-Fi meet of my life. So soon....


----------



## UntilThen

Poor Mordy. The only way you will be rid of your hum is to clear out your equipment room of all those cables. Start from scratch with just your 
  
 source > Euforia > Sony receiver > JBL speakers
  
 and everything will be ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep it simple like this.


----------



## UntilThen

Ow this sounds so good on Euforia now.


----------



## UntilThen

I saw Beauty and the Beast last night but I must say the music sounds better on my T1 and Euforia now.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Too much stuff to clear out of my room - 28 years of accumulations. Besides, I am too old to crawl around (same problems with my back as Howie13) and disconnect and rewire everything. What I could do is to take the Euforia into another room and just connect the minimum ancillary equipment.
  
 iPhone > Euforia > headphones - that should tell me if the EL12 tubes oscillate into humdom.....
  
 Here is something else that hums - maybe pct has them around his house in Paradise Valley....


----------



## aqsw

Some stuff has happened in the last 24 hours,. My Speakers Ether Cs are sold. Focal Elears on the way.

I really only need one closed headphone for work, and my Oppo PM3s take care of that.


----------



## aqsw

Could not figure out how to bold.


I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that tube rolling with Euforia may become very boring. It may come down to stock tubes or EL11/12. And given the scarcity of the latter, Euforia could end up as an amp primarily used exactly as its creator intended. What a concept

Well I just need nothing, with my El12N powers,and El3N drivers. I don't want to hear anything else. Ignorance is BLISS,


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Too much stuff to clear out of my room - 28 years of accumulations. Besides, I am too old to crawl around (same problems with my back as Howie13) and disconnect and rewire everything. What I could do is to take the Euforia into another room and just connect the minimum ancillary equipment.
> 
> ...


 

 We got 'em here. Sorry if this is a repeat:


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> @pctazhp  did you have to pay custom duties for your Elise? I don't have to for both Elise and Euforia. As soon as they see it's UT, they waived it.


 
 Did not have to pay. Asked FA to put label on box informing US Customs I know UT. They forgot to put on the label, but I still didn't have to pay.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Tomorrow I'll be attending the 2nd Head-Fi meet of my life. So soon....


 
 Song for your family to sign as they send you off on your adventure:


----------



## connieflyer

good luck at the show UT. Let us know about any headphones you think may be worth looking at, anything over $2000.00 are not headphones, they are ear replacements!


----------



## aqsw

Looking forward to your observations UT


----------



## UntilThen

@connieflyer  and @aqsw  I'll recommend you this headphone.
  

  
 But seriously, someone is bringing an Enigma Dharma wired with Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3, and Hugo. Looks like I'll be outclass unless I bring this.


----------



## connieflyer

Lmao!


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> You well know that It Never Ends - I am sure that there will be more very good choices coming up for the Euforia..
> 
> ...


 
 As of the last week, I've encountered the same terrible hum with my EL12's (Telefunken). So strange seeing how they were just sitting unused for maybe 2 weeks and never used to have this problem, now as powers these have a hum so loud as if it's their own one-note synthesizer... actually not even a hum, but more like a loud 'modulation' or whatever it's called type of sound. And it happens even with these paired with 6SN7 driver tubes. Probably they won't hum as drivers, but didn't test it since I prefer them as powers anyway. TLF EL12's are nice, but at least I also have a pair of EL12N and Valvo EL12 too.
  
 PS- this was with my Elise amp


----------



## UntilThen

I've been resisting tube rolling but today I ask myself what tubes I would like to hear in Euforia aside from the EL12N and EL12 that I have already sample... oh and Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb. 
  
 Suddenly my light bulb click... Euforia was made for a moment such as this.... now that she can handle up to 7a safely.
  
 Mullard ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998. Omg.... I need to find the words to describe this.... this is worth giving up your spaghetti bolognese... trust me.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> As of the last week, I've encountered the same terrible hum with my EL12's (Telefunken). So strange seeing how they were just sitting unused for maybe 2 weeks and never used to have this problem, now as powers these have a hum so loud as if it's their own one-note synthesizer... actually not even a hum, but more like a loud 'modulation' or whatever it's called type of sound. And it happens even with these paired with 6SN7 driver tubes. Probably they won't hum as drivers, but didn't test it since I prefer them as powers anyway. TLF EL12's are nice, but at least I also have a pair of EL12N and Valvo EL12 too.


 
  
 Folks I hate to spread fear but somehow I'm a bit uneasy about EL11, EL12, EL12 Spez and EF86 now that I have Euforia. 
  
 Why? Because Lukasz words still rings in my ears... that the EL11 is all over the place. I'm just a bit cautious now. I really want Euforia to last a long time. So I'll roll with recommended tubes first. At least let me really sample Euforia for many months before wrecking it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So far, all the recommended combos I've tried sounded very very good.... you would have no reasons to complain.
  
 Psvane 6sn7 and Svetlana 6h13c
 Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb
 Mullard ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998
  
 Ok ECC31 may not be specifically endorsed but it's a close cousin of ECC32, which is endorsed by FA.
  
 Well you decide for yourself. As for me, I'll practise safe tube rolling. Euforia isn't cheap at $1399. I rather be safe than sorry but that's just me at this point in time.


----------



## UntilThen

This afternoon I'm listening to both Euforia and Figaro. As you can see, they get top quality tubes. Euforia with Mullard ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998. La Figaro 339 with Siemens EF80 and Bendix 6080wb.
  
 There are no negatives that I can think of with regards to both amps. They are both mine. No reason to favor one over the other. Both really stunning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However I do have a preference of Euforia midrange. It's more centrally placed. I'm a vocals lover and this appeal to me heaps. On LF339, it's just an iota more recessed compared to Euforia. On bass, Figaro hits harder in the lower region. Euforia is is more on mid bass and it's very captivating. On treble, Euforia is more resolving. Quite incredible. Note that Figaro is no slouch too. Just a bit behind Euforia on the treble front. Incredibly where soundstage is concern, these 2 are equally wide.
  
 If I had to choose, I would pick Euforia as the amp I'd live with. It sounds more polish, euphonic and smooth. To be fair though, Figaro sounds really good too. At this rate, I just might wear out the headphone jacks, plugging from one amp to the other. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ps... all listening done with T1.
  
 Alright, I'll let the crowd give their opinion tomorrow at the Meet. These are the tubes that I will run with. If they pick Figaro, I'll have to fix up their ears at the back alley.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright my son just came home and I got him to listen with both amps. This is what he told me. Euforia's mids is more forward. Figaro's soundstage is wider and musicians more spread out. Euforia sounds warmer (must be the Mullard ECC31 I'm running) and Figaro more clinical (hmmm - I do think the EF80 is a touch brighter too).
  
 Overall he prefers Figaro for the music he listens to. Oh well everyone is different. Even my son !!!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

untilthen said:


> This afternoon I'm listening to both Euforia and Figaro. As you can see, they get top quality tubes. Euforia with Mullard ECC31 and Tung Sol 5998. La Figaro 339 with Siemens EF80 and Bendix 6080wb.
> 
> There are no negatives that I can think of with regards to both amps. They are both mine. No reason to favor one over the other. Both really stunning. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> ...




Awesome photo and comparison. I don't doubt the sincerity of your impressions. I would expect the Euforia to outclass the 339, but then it has this tendency to sneak up on and seduce you, at least with my version (which is the newest one) vs the ZDS. Why not the EF86 in the 339? 

I am glad you're enjoying the Euforia!


----------



## UntilThen

liu junyuan said:


> Awesome photo and comparison. I don't doubt the sincerity of your impressions. I would expect the Euforia to outclass the 339, but then it has this tendency to sneak up on and seduce you, at least with my version (which is the newest one) vs the ZDS. Why not the EF86 in the 339?
> 
> I am glad you're enjoying the Euforia!


 

 Thanks, I'm enjoying Euforia immensely but at the same time, I'm also enjoying LF339. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One of my RFT EF86 is playing up. It has developed a hum. I'm waiting on a new pair of Mullard EF86 from Langrex. Right now I'm auditioning Valvo C3g with Bendix 6080wb in 339. 1st impression is a very good tone with amazing clarity. Listening to 'Ain't No Sunshine' by Eva Cassidy. Sounds a bit too bright on the T1. With HD650, it seems ok... ok meaning good !
  
 You did have the upgraded LF339 with better caps, resistors, etc, etc. No doubt that will sound better too. I think your setup is optimum now, with the gear (Utopia, Yiggy, ZDS) you have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 Ps... I'm going to have such a fun time tomorrow at the Sydney meet. Minidisc owner is bringing a lot of gear for demo.
  
 Focal Utopia
 Focal Elear
 Mrspeakers Ether Flow
 Chord Hugo TT
 Hifiman HE400i
 Grado PS500e
 Sennheiser HD599
 JH Audio JH16V2
 Audeze Sine
 Chord Mojo
 Astell & Kern AK300
 Campfire Dorado
 Beyerdynamic Amiron Home
 64 Audio U12
 Sony NWWM1A
 Fostex T50rpMK3


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Some stuff has happened in the last 24 hours,. My Speakers Ether Cs are sold. Focal Elears on the way.
> 
> I really only need one closed headphone for work, and my Oppo PM3s take care of that.


 
  
  


aqsw said:


> Could not figure out how to bold.
> 
> 
> I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that tube rolling with Euforia may become very boring. It may come down to stock tubes or EL11/12. And given the scarcity of the latter, Euforia could end up as an amp primarily used exactly as its creator intended. What a concept
> ...


 
  
 AQ, your words are very profound lately. Bet it's the Euphoria you are feeling now. Somehow EL3N and EL12N is very stable. So is EL12N and EL12. Well in my experience.
  
 Huh, sold off your Mrs Speaker Ether C? I thought you love them ! Oh well, do tell us how the Focal Elear sound. Ah, I'll find out tomorrow at the meet.


----------



## 2359glenn

decentlevi said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi pct,
> ...


 

 You guys need to have the person that makes your adapters put grid stopper resistors on the control grid in them.
 And there should be a 100 ohm resistor between the plate and screen grid instead of being connected directly together.
 If this is not done you will be driving your selves crazy using these tubes. Some of them will oscillate some won't.
 And you can blow your headphones if they are oscillating at say 40KHz you will not here it but it will be cooking your phones.
 And driving your dog nuts.
  
 I put grid stoppers on the control grids of all tubes in my amplifiers. Even tho it might not be needed with allot of tubes sooner or later someone
 will put in a tube that wants to osculate. Even a 6SN7 can osculate at times. You can have 2 amplifiers that are the same model
 and a tube will osculate in one and not the other if there are no grid stoppers.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps you could start selling adapters, high quality ones to be sure. The price of some of these tubes, it would be nice to have an adapter that is safe, secure and would be a help to the tube not a hindrance, I know you are too busy , but had to put it out there.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Folks I hate to spread fear but somehow I'm a bit uneasy about EL11, EL12, EL12 Spez and EF86 now that I have Euforia.
> 
> Why? Because Lukasz words still rings in my ears... that the EL11 is all over the place. I'm just a bit cautious now. I really want Euforia to last a long time. So I'll roll with recommended tubes first. At least let me really sample Euforia for many months before wrecking it. :bigsmile_face:


 Hi UT, care to elaborate on the expression "all over the place"? Do you mean to say that they may be potentially dangerous to the amp? What did Lukasz actually say?


----------



## 2359glenn

connieflyer said:


> Perhaps you could start selling adapters, high quality ones to be sure. The price of some of these tubes, it would be nice to have an adapter that is safe, secure and would be a help to the tube not a hindrance, I know you are too busy , but had to put it out there.


 

 I used to sell lots of adapters but don't anymore no time spend most of it building amps. And I cannot compete
 With the ones coming from China have to make some money for my time.


----------



## 2359glenn

angpsi said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Folks I hate to spread fear but somehow I'm a bit uneasy about EL11, EL12, EL12 Spez and EF86 now that I have Euforia.
> ...


 

 More likely to damage your phones


----------



## connieflyer

I understand that completely.  China can undercut anyone on labor and materials.  I used to have a Garage 1217 Ember amp, and the man that made up the amps also made adapters, and they were probably twice the price of the Chinese made ones, but the quality was obvious. Wish I would have kept them when I sold the amp.  I wonder if enough people were willing to spend $200-$400 per tube in some cases, if they would not see the value in having the correct and quality signal from the tube to the amp,  I for one would, but that is just me perhaps.


----------



## 2359glenn

connieflyer said:


> I understand that completely.  China can undercut anyone on labor and materials.  I used to have a Garage 1217 Ember amp, and the man that made up the amps also made adapters, and they were probably twice the price of the Chinese made ones, but the quality was obvious. Wish I would have kept them when I sold the amp.  I wonder if enough people were willing to spend $200-$400 per tube in some cases, if they would not see the value in having the correct and quality signal from the tube to the amp,  I for one would, but that is just me perhaps.


 

 If I spend 2 hrs making a adapter and charge $50 it is not worth it after I bought the parts. People will complain at $50
 and I make much more at work why should I make less on the weekend.


----------



## connieflyer

For @hypnos1 do you remember this..


----------



## 2359glenn

2359glenn said:


> decentlevi said:
> 
> 
> > mordy said:
> ...


 
 http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/grid-resistors-why-are-they-used


----------



## pctazhp

Glenn is putting the fear of God in me about possibly frying my HD800S. I would not be a happy camper if that happened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I can certainly understand why he doesn't want to make adapters for the relatively few of us who are rolling EL11/12 tubes, which are of limited supply and somewhat difficult to find ones that are not DOA.
  
 I'm getting to the point where I want to stick to tubes approved by FA. I'm back to primarily using Sylvania 6SN7WGT/GEC6AS7G on Elise, and hoping I will be happy with stock (I know UT doesn't like that term applied to Euforia) when I get my Euforia. Or maybe the Sylvania/GECs will be even better.
  
 I think that both my Sylvania drivers and GEC powers have improved significantly with more hours on both, and for pure listening enjoyment I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Very detailed, yet at the same time organic and highly musical. Coherent and well integrated from top to bottom. Great depth and width of soundstage. A while back I posted this picture of my Elise with that combo, and think it is beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Hi UT, care to elaborate on the expression "all over the place"? Do you mean to say that they may be potentially dangerous to the amp? What did Lukasz actually say?


 
  
 Read this.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/6165#post_13247474


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Read this.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/6165#post_13247474


 

 Aren't you supposed to be asleep?????


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Glenn is putting the fear of God in me about possibly frying my HD800S.
> 
> and hoping I will be happy with stock (I know UT doesn't like that term applied to Euforia)


 
  
 1st statement - that's right. I don't want to fry the Focal Utopia and Enigma Dharma tomorrow at the Meet. I wouldn't be able to run fast enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2nd statement - that's right. You are to call them 'the golden nuggets from Shaolin' or the 'jewels of the Nile'. Btw I have shares in Psvanes and Svetlanas.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Aren't you supposed to be asleep?????


 
  
 I don't need much sleep... especially since I'll be at the meet at 10am after I pick up the guy with the Sony hp, Yiggy dac, Ragnorak amp and the other guy with the modded HE500, PM1, PM3.
  
 Did you know lack of sleep leads to more acute hearing?


----------



## attmci

connieflyer said:


> I understand that completely.  China can undercut anyone on labor and materials.  I used to have a Garage 1217 Ember amp, and the man that made up the amps also made adapters, and they were probably twice the price of the Chinese made ones, but the quality was obvious. Wish I would have kept them when I sold the amp.  I wonder if enough people were willing to spend $200-$400 per tube in some cases, if they would not see the value in having the correct and quality signal from the tube to the amp,  I for one would, but that is just me perhaps.


 

 Well, look at the pictures, it's easy to make these. However, add grid resistors need redesign the adapter.


----------



## attmci

untilthen said:


> I don't need much sleep... especially since I'll be at the meet at 10am after I pick up the guy with the Sony hp, Yiggy dac, Ragnorak amp and the other guy with the modded HE500, PM1, PM3.
> 
> Did you know lack of sleep leads to more acute hearing?


 
 Nope.


----------



## attmci

untilthen said:


> Alright my son just came home and I got him to listen with both amps. This is what he told me. Euforia's mids is more forward. Figaro's soundstage is wider and musicians more spread out. Euforia sounds warmer (must be the Mullard ECC31 I'm running) and Figaro more clinical (hmmm - I do think the EF80 is a touch brighter too).
> 
> Overall he prefers Figaro for the music he listens to. Oh well everyone is different. Even my son !!!


 

 How about switch the tubes(T 5998 vs B 6080wb)? Your son may change his preference.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> How about switch the tubes(T 5998 vs B 6080wb)? Your son may change his preference.


 
  
 Now that's an interesting thought. Both very good power tubes yet distinctly different. I might try that on myself.


----------



## soundify

Does anyone know if there is a Feliks Audio reseller here in Singapore? I'm interested in trying the Euforia first to see if I like the sound.


----------



## UntilThen

soundify said:


> Does anyone know if there is a Feliks Audio reseller here in Singapore? I'm interested in trying the Euforia first to see if I like the sound.


 
  
 There's a reseller in Malaysia and also one in Thailand. I posted it on this thread... let me try and find it.


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> There's a reseller in Malaysia and also one in Thailand. I posted it on this thread... let me try and find it.


 
  
 Huh here.
  
 https://shop.amplifiedhead.com/products/Feliks-Audio-Elise/1085
  
 http://www.bkkaudio.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1429
  
 I don't know of a reseller in Spore. It's time someone there become one.


----------



## soundify

untilthen said:


> Huh here.
> 
> https://shop.amplifiedhead.com/products/Feliks-Audio-Elise/1085
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info. Yeah I'm kinda surprised that there no reseller here.


----------



## UntilThen

soundify said:


> Thanks for the info. Yeah I'm kinda surprised that there no reseller here.


 
  
 Come to Sydney and you can listen. I spend 30 years of my life in Spore. The better part when I was young, carefree and better looking.


----------



## UntilThen

Will be leaving shortly for the Sydney meet. It's a good way to try other audio gear and meet like minded people with similar interests. I would urge you to try and attend one if you can. This is the group.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/832710/can-con-sydney-australia-7-0-sunday-26-march-2017
  
 Here's a nice song by Rumer.


----------



## mordy

I think that I solved the humming problem I had with EL12N as drivers and a Tungsram EL12 and Valvo EL12/375V as powers. I just switched the power tubes around and no more hum. I do not have any explanation for this and I just tried it with one headphone.
  
 Then I got a thought - my favorite combo with the Elise was TFK EL11 and EL6 as powers, but in the Euforia it sounded a little soft and lacked the punch in the bass. What about EL12N as drivers and the EL6 as power tubes in the Euforia?
  
 The result is stunning - everything I want. Better listen for a while and sleep on it - OTT comments have to be well thought out and time tested, because if not, they are - OTT.....l
  
  
 Re the comments of frying your headphones from wildly oscillating tubes - does this apply to speakers? At least I don't have a dog to worry about......And it is scary to think about the 155V in the anode cap of the EL12 Spezial.....
  
 But I do feel safe with the El12N and EL6 tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

While that's a good fix for you Mordy, it would seem a temporary one using EL12's as drivers, and more of us that have other combos can benefit with EL12's as powers. 
  


2359glenn said:


> You guys need to have the person that makes your adapters put grid stopper resistors on the control grid in them.
> And there should be a 100 ohm resistor between the plate and screen grid instead of being connected directly together.
> If this is not done you will be driving your selves crazy using these tubes. Some of them will oscillate some won't.
> And you can blow your headphones if they are oscillating at say 40KHz you will not here it but it will be cooking your phones.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the great insight. I wonder if an adapter fixed in such a way would theoretically make it so EL12's (and perhaps EL11 as well) would finally have 'correct operating points' for the Elise / Euforia. Moreover that would be great if we can work out something with an adapter maker per the above. It looks like Glenn would be able to make it, but time / costs could be an issue so maybe there's a way to reduce the burden such as sending him existing adapters for modding. Or the other possibility is to explain the concept to Ms. Xuling to see if she has the prowess to make this happen, or even with another of the several exising adapter makers out there on eBay and elsewhere.
  
 Of course this special adapter may not be required for all EL12's, but can sure be helpful for the random ones that do oscillate, and perhaps can make these more electrically sound on these F.A. amps.


----------



## DecentLevi

Edit to the last line: Wow, 40khz could be supersonic oscillation, no wonder why that could be a negative. I'll try using a mic. and spectrum analysis to test for any that I can't hear later to see if that's an issue I didn't hear with my 'quiet' EL tubes. If so, this adaptation would become a requirement.


----------



## UntilThen

Came home not too long ago from the Sydney Meet. Some photos ...
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/842208/can-con-sydney-australia-7-0-impressions-thread#post_13374118
  
 You can see I'm pretty happy wearing the Focal Utopia on my head in 2 photos. Absolutely delicious. Sorry folks, sorry for your wallet but this is the best headphone I've heard and it's perfect with Euforia !!!
  
 Too expensive? No worries because I heard Elear too and it's great !!! So is the HD800 with cardas cable. HD800 is perfect with Euforia. This is Gen 1 btw. Gen 2 does not exists in my vocabulary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Finally I did get to spend some time with GEC 6AS7G in Euforia - thanks to the 'Crow' who so kindly lend me the use of this pair of marvellous power tubes. I brought my Mullard ECC31 along and wanted to pair with it but I forgot to bring the adapters !!!
  
 So anyhoo, it's Psvane 6sn7 and GEC 6AS7G and it's very good !!!


----------



## UntilThen

hplobster said:


> If you enjoy the PsVane/Svetlana-combo that much, you should go on and switch to Mullard 6080s as powers....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are absolutely right Lobster. Psvane and Mullard 6080 is a sparkling combo. Gives it that little bit more tightness that I love and it's less fluffy.


----------



## UntilThen

This setup of Euforia + Psvane with Gec 6as7g and hd800 is pretty much end game for me. Much to my surprise, hd800 bass is more than substantial. I've not heard hd800 sound as good as this - with Euforia. Photo taken with a stock hd800 but there is another tip top condition hd800 with cardas cable, that has my attention. One can have both T1 and HD800. It's never too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Want something different? Then try Focal Utopia and Elear. Looks really good in the flesh and sounds stunning, especially Utopia.


----------



## attmci

untilthen said:


> This setup of Euforia + Psvane with Gec 6as7g and hd800 is pretty much end game for me. Much to my surprise, hd800 bass is more than substantial. I've not heard hd800 sound as good as this - with Euforia. Photo taken with a stock hd800 but there is another tip top condition hd800 with cardas cable, that has my attention. One can have both T1 and HD800. It's never too much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I  am so glad you are happy with the headphone "rolling". 
  
 The hd-800 v1 or v1.1 can be modded. And a moon audio black Dragon cable is also works well. 
  
 Utopia is the end game but it's too rich for my wallet.


----------



## connieflyer

I have had very good luck with the Senn 800 I use them hours on end and no fatigue, and the sound is great. Many people claim it is weak in the bass, but if there is bass in the music, you will hear it fine. I think those folks were not using an amplifier that was suitable for the 800.  The Elise and the Euforia drive it to it's full potential, and believe me, that is quite a bit.  Have been looking at the Beyer Amiron   they look like they may be a nice addition to the 800.  Nice job UT!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Now that we have some Euphorias delivered to Elise owners...

Looking forward to a double blind impression between the two.

Will it happen?


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. Thanks for not keeping us in suspense after your long day at the meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great report.
  
 I thought it was interesting you focused your attention on headphones. We don't get a lot of comparisons like you were able to make. It's not surprising Utopia was your favorite. I don't think the price would be so dramatically high if it wasn't very special. It is beyond my budget, but there is always going to be something most of us audio guys can't afford. For those of us with Euforia and T1 or HD800 we are probably already in the top 1% . I'm putting myself in the Euforia group even though I'm still at least a month away from achieving that vaulted state of audio excellence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 While there are differences between HD800 Classic and S, I read with interest how you liked the Classic with Euforia. I've had good results with Elise and S, so I expect that will continue with Euforia.
  
 And thought it was very interesting to hear how you liked Psvanes/GEC 6AS7G. That will surely be my first substitution for whatever you like to call the tubes that come with Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Glenn is putting the fear of God in me about possibly frying my HD800S. I would not be a happy camper if that happened
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi pct....I turn my back for five minutes and mad panic sets in lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 Once again I feel the need to get a *balanced perspective* on this issue of oscillation/interference with certain tubes, especially our use of triode-strapped pentodes (this has been ongoing since my LittleDot days and my first introduction of the C3g!).
  
 Glenn is indeed correct that _*occasionally*_ this problem can surface for the unlucky few, but from my own experience - and others' - over the past 2 years and more, the majority of folks have no problem at all, and _*in most cases it presents as susceptibility to RFI/EMI in environments that are especially prone*_ to having this interference far worse than normal...eg. poorly shielded electrical appliances, power cords, mains supply etc. And not only in the immediate environment, but also from close neighbours, nearby power lines/mobile phone masts etc. etc.!!
  
 The kind of symptoms usually described here would indicate this type of interference..._*not*_ the sort of worst case scenario that represents possible damage from 40kHz parasitic oscillation!! And in fact I personally haven't heard of one single example of this with all those who have been using such tubes for a long while now.
  
 Obviously, there's a case for prevention rather than cure, but this usually proves too fiddly and costly - especially given it's only a minority who suffer badly to a degree that cannot be minimised by addressing the EMI/RFI issues.
  
 Hopefully this will put peoples' minds a bit more at rest lol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. If there is indeed any high frequency "parasitic oscillation", as mentioned in the link that Glenn gave, it would probably appear likely to present as a high-pitched 'squeal', as opposed to something that is going to blow one's headphones!! We're talking _*probability*_ here...nothing is  ever *100%* safe LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


untilthen said:


> This setup of Euforia + Psvane with Gec 6as7g and hd800 is pretty much end game for me. Much to my surprise, hd800 bass is more than substantial. I've not heard hd800 sound as good as this - with Euforia. Photo taken with a stock hd800 but there is another tip top condition hd800 with cardas cable, that has my attention. One can have both T1 and HD800. It's never too much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...thanks for your prompt words of succour for all us impatient ones here...and glad you had a great time. Look forward to more details of your exploits and findings once you've rested lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 HOWEVER...why did you have to say Euforia can handle the Utopias so well, given the different impedance to our T1s and 800s?!!! You might have just driven me to inexorable bankruptcy LOL!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










...CHEERS!!!...


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I realize that you concentrated on headphone rolling at the meet, but maybe you can share some experiences comparing the Euforia to other tube amps there, as well other people's reaction to the Euforia?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> While there are differences between HD800 Classic and S, I read with interest how you liked the Classic with Euforia. I've had good results with Elise and S, so I expect that will continue with Euforia.


 
  
 Don't mind my tongue in cheek comment on the HD800S. There wasn't one at the Meet so I didn't get a chance to listen with Euforia. I'm sure it will sound as spectacular. I just prefer the original from last year's comparison. 
  
 Sony MDR-Z1R is interesting indeed. If I didn't have it back to back with Utopia and HD800, I'd given it high praise too. Comfortable on the head and lovely tone. We have someone using this with his Elise. Cannot remember his name.


----------



## UntilThen

First time I heard the Oppo PM1 and it's good with Euforia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  not as good as my preferred cans there but good nevertheless. 
  
 Euforia drove it with ease. Guy who has both PM1 and PM3 says they sounded similar. I was quite surprised that a planar magnetic was driven so well by Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I  am so glad you are happy with the headphone "rolling".
> 
> The hd-800 v1 or v1.1 can be modded. And a moon audio black Dragon cable is also works well.
> 
> Utopia is the end game but it's too rich for my wallet.


 
  
 Thanks. Absolutely a fun day. 
  
 I think the Sony Z1R was equipped with a moon audio cable. Looks and sound good. 
  
 Meh... Cardas sounds good and look gorgeous but it's $1000 new !!!
  
 Utopia is indeed too rich - $5500 in aussie dollars !!!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct....I turn my back for five minutes and mad panic sets in lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks H1. I might indeed have cast doubts on folks here with my sudden undue concern for EL tubes. I must say that the EL tubes that works in my Elise and Euforia gave me absolute confidence.
  
 EL3N, EL12N and EL12 and EF86, EF80. I'll be rolling them soon again. So fear not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












  
  
 It's a patchy report with photos. Will give a more coherent and detail report later as I have to dash off to work soon. Such is life.
  
 Hifiman HE500 sounded powerful with a kick ass bass on both Euforia and Figaro. On both amps, volume knob has to be turned to 12 noon to give me that chest thumping impact but it is really good. This is quite a forgotten planar magnetic but I can see why there are those who love it.


----------



## HPLobster

untilthen said:


> You are absolutely right Lobster. Psvane and Mullard 6080 is a sparkling combo. Gives it that little bit more tightness that I love and it's less fluffy.


 
 Very happy to hear that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I´m still enjoying them as much as on that day I raved about them and am now looking at all the shiny EL-tubes in my drawers ever so calmly and relaxed...
  


connieflyer said:


> I have had very good luck with the Senn 800 I use them hours on end and no fatigue, and the sound is great. Many people claim it is weak in the bass, but if there is bass in the music, you will hear it fine. I think those folks were not using an amplifier that was suitable for the 800.  The Elise and the Euforia drive it to it's full potential, and believe me, that is quite a bit.  Have been looking at the Beyer Amiron   they look like they may be a nice addition to the 800.  Nice job UT!


 
 I absolutely underline this post. I never have experienced real fatigue with them when using the Elise and bass isn´t weak at all, it just isn´t as emphasized as it is in many other cans. The HD 800 is THE perfect example for: "Try out for yourself instead of relying on others´ opinions!" 
  
  


hypnos1 said:


> Hi pct....I turn my back for five minutes and mad panic sets in lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha, now that post came just in time! There was no room for head-fi for me this weekend so I was just about to catch up with the last 50 or 60 posts, going through all kinds of emotions during the last 10 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	















 I now have more confidence again to unleash the EL12spez/12N/3N/11 on an unsuspecting Elise in future, thank you very much


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > While there are differences between HD800 Classic and S, I read with interest how you liked the Classic with Euforia. I've had good results with Elise and S, so I expect that will continue with Euforia.
> ...


 
 The guy who has I traded my Elise with - @LaCuffia has those Sony cans.


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
  
 Double blind comparison between the Elise and the Euphoria? - nah, can't do it, don't have the necessary A/B hardware. The best I can do is to compare one amp to the other in different time space.
  
 All I can do is to switch out 9 connections and plug everything into one or the other, and give you my subjective impressions. I have lived with the Euforia for some time now, but I don't think that I have burned it in yet. And it keeps improving.
  
 I used identical tubes in the Euforia and Elise - a pair of EL12N as drivers and two EL6 as power tubes. Was a little nervous doing this - will my perceived truth about the differences between the two amps justify the big extra financial outlay for the Euforia?
  
 The answer in short: YES.
  
 I am afraid that my Elise will be relegated to collecting dust; maybe be a back-up just in case....
  
 So what are the differences?
  
 If you are into cars: The difference between a powerful four cylinder and a twin turbo V6.
  
 If you are into food: The difference between a sparkling grape juice and a full bodied great wine.
  
 In comparison the Elise sounds thin. The bass isn't as strong and powerful, the sound stage is narrower, and vocals do not sound as natural. The Euforia has a full bodied RICH sound with beautiful timbre. Better pace, rhythm and timing. Powerful, full bodied bass and sizzling highs. WIDE sound stage. Time and again you catch yourself noticing something new in familiar recordings with many wow moments.
  
 That's it. Others with more elaborate and expressive writing skills will no doubt add to these descriptions. Admittedly, all this is subjective, but I think that the handful of new Euforia owners have corroborated my impressions.
  
 Don't take me wrong - the Elise is a great amp, but the Euforia is greater.


----------



## connieflyer

Nicely put Morty and I agree with you 100%. So many times I'm listening to a very familiar song and I hear things there that I never noticed before sometimes it's unsettling I have to check to make sure I'm playing the right file. Well worth the investment.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> 
> Double blind comparison between the Elise and the Euphoria? - nah, can't do it, don't have the necessary A/B hardware. The best I can do is to compare one amp to the other in different time space.
> 
> ...





Sounds good Mordy. Your subjective opinion is noted, and appreciated.

I believe, that there is no substitute for blind testing.

I understand how difficult the blind testing would be with two amps that require 4 tubes each, warmed up and "amps properly broken in"....etc, etc....it won't be an easy one to preform. It will require multiple participants to swap the gear and distract the listener to ensure he or she has no knowledge of which amp they are about to hear. 
Multiple participants alone, is a hard one, since headphone listening is a solo endevour. Perhaps at a meet, is the only possible solution to all of the challenges. 

But I Do hope some group of folks will be able to step up and do true blind testing between the two offerings. 

Cheers...


.


----------



## connieflyer

My feelings on double blind testing with headphones is that hearing is so subjective and the span of time for accurate retention of the perceived differences short and no two people hear the same, and tubes themselves by their very nature are constantly changing, if you want to compare specs that is one thing, where you can get a repeatable number, but the actual comparing of a large group, (which would by the large sample (help) to quantify the results would be very difficult and still would be subjective. The only valid comparison, to me. is to just state the obvious differences and let it go at that. If you have a lot of people that dislike the amp time will tell, but for now very favorable reviews. The way I look at it is if you really want to know if you like it is to seek one out. Not easy I know, but the only other way is to just buy one. and if you like it fine, if not put it up for sale.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I realize that you concentrated on headphone rolling at the meet, but maybe you can share some experiences comparing the Euforia to other tube amps there, as well other people's reaction to the Euforia?


 

 Hi Mordy, there was only one other tube amp there and that's the Woo Audio Wa2, which I have already heard from last year's meet. A couple of guys came and listen to both Euforia and Figaro. Both amps were connected to the same source. As I had both Utopia and HD800 connected to both amps, these were the headphones used mainly, as well as the Sony Z1R. I could see them bobbing their heads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There's a Brazilian guy who is new to the head-fi scene and he was keen to listen to the tube amps. If you look at the photo where I had the Utopia and he was wearing the HD800 with the cardas cable. Subsequently we swapped headphones. When he had the HD800 on, connected to Euforia, he gave me a big thumps up like a happy child. This is the best endorsement for me. An unbiased view IMO as he has never listen with such equipment.


----------



## UntilThen

hplobster said:


> Very happy to hear that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll reply to both your statements one at a time.
  
 I was enjoying Psvane 6sn7 and Mullard 6080 after dinner but after 2 hours, Euforia is really HOT. So hot it could cook an omelette. So I swapped to EL12N and EL12 and the head bobbing begins and Euforia is cool as a cucumber. Put your cheek to the transformer casing and your cheek won't get a blush. I did miss the magic of the EL tubes and I certainly experience no oscillations. The only oscillations I experience is where I soar to cloud 9 and be with the stars. The tubes were as quiet as a sleeping baby. Ok hallucinations is settling in....
  
 On the HD800 ... 'try it out for yourself instead of relying on others opinion' ..... I couldn't agree more. As much as I love the T1 sound, the tone from HD800 is one I could live with and love. It has everything I wanted. Utopia has more bass but only just and I wouldn't want anymore bass. I'm not one to favor strong bass. Ultimately a strong bass will decimate the high notes. Refer to Koss experiment. Though I love HE500's bass, it's not the 'only' headphone I want to live with. HD800 and T1 are my preferred cans with Euforia... unless Focal hears my praise of the Utopia and sends me a pair of Utopia and Elear ...... 
  
 On the Elear, I think it would be excellent for blues !!!  Hmmm @aqsw is getting the Elear. He's on the right track.


----------



## UntilThen

A photo of my Euforia with the EL tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> My feelings on double blind testing with headphones is that hearing is so subjective and the span of time for accurate retention of the perceived differences short and no two people hear the same, and tubes themselves by their very nature are constantly changing, if you want to compare specs that is one thing, where you can get a repeatable number, but the actual comparing of a large group, (which would by the large sample (help) to quantify the results would be very difficult and still would be subjective. The only valid comparison, to me. is to just state the obvious differences and let it go at that. If you have a lot of people that dislike the amp time will tell, but for now very favorable reviews. The way I look at it is if you really want to know if you like it is to seek one out. Not easy I know, but the only other way is to just buy one. and if you like it fine, if not put it up for sale.




Hello CF...

Sounds good but not correct, in my opinion. We're Talking about comparing the old vs new design, not "do I like the amp" in general.

Pride of ownership and signing up for hype spoken by "friends", affects very heavily, what you think you know about the products' sonic attributes. 

And yes, most humans could retain an impression between amps.

Blind testing will open your eyes (and ears) to the truth. Hype and pride of ownership predjustice, disappears 


Cheers....


.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> My feelings on double blind testing with headphones is that hearing is so subjective and the span of time for accurate retention of the perceived differences short and no two people hear the same, and tubes themselves by their very nature are constantly changing, if you want to compare specs that is one thing, where you can get a repeatable number, but the actual comparing of a large group, (which would by the large sample (help) to quantify the results would be very difficult and still would be subjective. The only valid comparison, to me. is to just state the obvious differences and let it go at that. If you have a lot of people that dislike the amp time will tell, but for now very favorable reviews. The way I look at it is if you really want to know if you like it is to seek one out. Not easy I know, but the only other way is to just buy one. and if you like it fine, if not put it up for sale.


 

 I agree. With my surface knowledge of DBT I think I understand the science behind it and am glad it is used in such fields as medical science where it is performed by people who know what they are doing. At home for audio I think it is pointless and impractical. My desktop is a Pleasure Palace, not a Test Lab.


----------



## connieflyer

Well if that is all it is, is hype and pride of ownership, then I am very happy that I have both in abundance   If you want to compare the new to the old amp, what criteria would YOU use. Is this better or that one, is it more clear than the other one, better sound stage, wider stage, frequency range, tonal balance, I can see London from here on a clear day on the Euforia, but not the Elise?  It is all subjective.  What you hear and LIKE compared to what I hear and Like could be worlds apart and would influence whether I gave the new amp a good review or not.  In order to be as accurate as possible, you would have to use the same headphone, same power outlet and the same tubes, you will never find four tubes exactly the same. They would have to be warmed up long enough to be stable, do it in the middle of the night when power in the neighborhood was at minimums.  What's the point. If I say the Euforia is sounds better to me it is not because a friend sold it do me or a friend advised me to purchase it, I don't go on word alone, but it does go into my decision. I have to know someone, their taste in music and and the way they listen and to what degree, and then ultimately I have to trust them. If I value their opinion and it follows what I like to hear, and what has transpired in the past, their influence goes in the decision. If I look at a double blind test done on line with people I don't know, under conditions I did not witness, then it is just a bunch of words without that trust. Here follows a case in point, in you are interested, read this thread..http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html the end result if you don't want to read is this   http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html page. Then tell me double blind tests are the way to go.


----------



## pctazhp

jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CF...
> 
> Sounds good but not correct, in my opinion. We're Talking about comparing the old vs new design, not "do I like the amp" in general.
> 
> ...


 

 I think the rules of HeadFi, for good reason, limit DBT discussion to specific threads. In the audio world, it's an argument as old as time (in home audio years). I always laugh at people who talk about bias in home audio caused by pride of ownership. Maybe I'm different, but my family and friends (except for my virtual friends here on the FA threads) all think I'm crazy with all my tubes and expensive headphone. They wouldn't know a Euforia from a Ragnarok, and I'd probably be embarrassed to even try to mention the name of either to them. To the extent I have any "pride of ownership", I try to hide it as much as possible to avoid being laughed at even more than I already am.
  
 As for my friends here, none have ever seemed "impressed" by the fact that I own a particular amp, tube or headphone. We simply enjoy sharing our experiences and seem to understand we are each individually responsible for how we spend our hard earned money, without need to justify our personal consumer decisions to anyone.
  
 Of course, expectation bias and all that exist in home audio, as in just about every field of human endeavor and pursuit of pleasure. But I will not concede inferior intelligence or knowledge to anyone who believes they may be superior to me because they can post about DBTs (which is often the attitude I experience from those who love to talk about it). I've been heavily involved as a consumer in high-end audio since the early 70s. I've seen almost no reports of blind tests that were conducted according to proper scientific protocol, and certainly none that were properly peer reviewed or reported with sufficient specificity that would allow them to be repeated - a mandatory requirement for "scientific" tests. The money and incentive just isn't there for such tests in home audio.
  
 But somehow, without the guidance of such tests, I have managed to derive great enjoyment from recorded music for decades.
  
 Do you still use Elise? Are you considering buying a Euforia? I'm wondering what the point of your posts is.


----------



## Oskari

Beware of trolls. Don't feed them. Please.


----------



## hypnos1

hplobster said:


> Very happy to hear that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My pleasure, HPL...just trying to reinstate the _*balanced*_ argument lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jazzvinyl said:


> Hello CF...
> 
> Sounds good but not correct, in my opinion. We're Talking about comparing the old vs new design, not "do I like the amp" in general.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So JV, here we go again...had thought - nay _hoped_ - this old chestnut was well and truly buried last time you persisted in the "double blind" theme...with ulterior motives that became apparent and for which several members reported you to the moderators. Why do you insist on repeating this subject, which was covered in quite  some depth before?
  
 I should like to know your true motives behind this...and the insult you direct to the findings of others who have extensive experience in assessing sound - are you questioning their ability to determine differences over and above supposed "hype by friends"? I - and they - expect an apology from you for such insulting statements, and once again state that the barbed implications of your posts are not welcome here, and will most certainly be directed once again to the moderators if they should continue.


----------



## pctazhp

Well, I'm over the EL11/12 scare and they are back in my Elise. From what I can tell, there are mainly 3 risks with these tubes (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
  
 1.  Many seem to have arrived DOA. I was lucky and haven't experienced that.
  
 2.  Of the people who have ones that work, some seem to experience bad problems with low frequency hum for which there seem to be solutions. Fortunately, I have not experienced that problem.
  
 3.  As Glenn has pointed out, I understand it is theoretically possible for high frequency oscillation to occur that could damage headphones. I haven't seen any report of this from Elise or Euforia users, so I'm not worried about that.
  
 They do produce the best SQ I have achieved with Elise. In time I will be able to try in Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Well, I'm over the EL11/12 scare and they are back in my Elise. From what I can tell, there are mainly 3 risks with these tubes (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> 1.  Many seem to have arrived DOA. I was lucky and haven't experienced that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is indeed the balanced situation I mentioned regarding use of these (and other) triode-strapped pentodes in our amps, and am glad that this holds for the majority of those who wish to give these wonders a try...and for whom I truly wish for gremlin-free results lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## mordy

I do believe that double blind studies have a role in certain areas, such as Coke vs Pepsi as an example.
  
 Here is a very scientific study, worth reading, which will prove that it is indeed possible to single out an Euforia (Coke) over an Elise (Pepsi)
  
 http://syntheticremarks.com/?p=926
  





 
  
  
 PS: The last of the six comments is for Oskari.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> I'll reply to both your statements one at a time.
> 
> *I was enjoying Psvane 6sn7 and Mullard 6080 after dinner but after 2 hours, Euforia is really HOT.* So hot it could cook an omelette. So I swapped to EL12N and EL12 and the head bobbing begins and Euforia is cool as a cucumber. Put your cheek to the transformer casing and your cheek won't get a blush. I did miss the magic of the EL tubes and I certainly experience no oscillations. The only oscillations I experience is where I soar to cloud 9 and be with the stars. The tubes were as quiet as a sleeping baby. Ok hallucinations is settling in....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi UT...sadly, this is also why I moved away from the magical ECC31/GEC combo...and into the arms of my particular EL11(EL3N*G*)/EL12 Spez mistress (along with other undoubted charms lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Re. the Utopias, in what ways besides bass did they impress over the T1s? From reports of the Elears, these don't seem to be too much of a threat to the Beyers, but will hopefully be able to try them also next weekend. Speaking of which, I had a bit of a shock yesterday while trying out different (more portable) sources to coax feed my particular setup and still give top performance to showcase Euforia...in short, nothing that I have matches my Oppo BDP 103!! And even more of a shock was that direct out from its CD transport is superior to its media playback from copies to SD/USB memory!...(further surprised as this wasn't the case when in the past using the excellent Audiolab 8200CD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...obviously yet another example of "synergy" lol!). The sound from said "CD Quality" source simply blew me away...this setup has brought a massive leap in my appreciation of just what "mere" RedBook is truly capable of...astounding! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This has, fortunately, reduced my hankering to consider more seriously going into DSD territory...especially as my tube DAC doesn't have USB functionality. Am now going to explore SACD, which the Oppo can also handle, despite limited availability...(it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was a return to discs in a way to surpass even the vinyl resurgence lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 ps. So now I've got to haul the Oppo to the meet as well!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but thank goodness I've booked into the hotel meet for the night prior...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> PS: The last of the six comments is for Oskari.




I cannot do that test. Brooklyn Lager is not available _på burk_ here, only _på flaska_. 



 https://tourtrappist.wordpress.com/2015/03/01/brooklyn-lager-flaska-vs-burk-Ⅱ-skillnad-eller-inte/


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> My pleasure, HPL...just trying to reinstate the _*balanced*_ argument lol!
> 
> 
> So JV, here we go again...had thought - nay _hoped_ - this old chestnut was well and truly buried last time you persisted in the "double blind" theme...with ulterior motives that became apparent and for which several members reported you to the moderators. Why do you insist on repeating this subject, which was covered in quite  some depth before?
> ...




Saw what?

Suggesting a blind test of two very similar amps has ulterior motives?

Really?

What would those be, H1?


----------



## hypnos1

jazzvinyl said:


> Saw what?
> 
> Suggesting a blind test of two very similar amps has ulterior motives?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You - and others - know full well the intended theme of your appearance here (as with last time), and I have no intention whatsoever of continuing any further communication on this. We have better memories than you seem to think, so please don't bother to insult us any further.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,
  
 Even though I left Sweden 50 years ago (give and take a couple of months) I still was able to read through and understand the entire test.
  
 For the benefit of those who do not know Swedish I am briefly summarizing  the findings:
  
 The test was very simple - a triple or triangular double blind test. In other words, to replicate it we need two Euforias and one Elise, or one Euforia and two Elises. Then listen to each one without knowing what what you are listening to, and pick out which one is which.
  
 In the Swedish test the question was if the identical beer tastes better in a glass bottle or in a can. The taster correctly picked out the bottle as tasting better, the same correct results as in the previously mentioned test about Coke and Pepsi.
  
 Encouraged by these tests I pronounce the Euforia as tasting better, I mean sounding better.


----------



## aqsw

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...sadly, this is also why I moved away from the magical ECC31/GEC combo...and into the arms of my particular EL11(EL3N*G*)/EL12 Spez mistress (along with other undoubted charms lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey H1, Note the bold,
  
 Are you saying your Oppo is better than your tube dac?, or am I missing something here?
  
 P.S. Don't feed the trolls!!!!!


----------



## aqsw

A buddy of mine just gave me two 1/4 " female to male resistor adapters. He made these up years ago when he had otl amps.
 One is 80 ohms and the other is 210 ohms.
  
 Using the 210 right now on my PM3s and Elise. No more distortion at high listening levels. I could have used these on my Ether Cs.,
 but my Elears at 80 ohms stock + 210 ohms adapter =290 ohms, will sound sweet on the Euphoria!!!


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> Beware of trolls. Don't feed them. Please.


 
  
 Woke up this morning and was eager to join the Euforia crowd, only to see the throll has surfaced again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Notice that he doesn't post anything about Elise and Euforia anymore. The only time he shows up is to insist that a double blind date... ummm test 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 be done on Elise and Euforia. 
  
 I've read Mordy and CF impressions of Euforia and Elise difference. I agree. I didn't want to add to it because Elise did sound good too (and I do not really want Elise owners to feel they have an inferior amp - that couldn't be further from the truth) but they are so distinctly different in tone, even a newcomer would pick that up. No blind test required. It would be as different as a 5998 from a 6AS7G in tone and no one has insisted on a double blind test to prove that those 2 tubes sounded different. If anyone cannot hear a difference there, they have a hearing problem.
  
 Euforia sounded better than Elise, no doubt about it. Identical? If you have them in the flesh, they don't even look identical close up and they certainly don't sound identical. Anyone who thinks that a change of capacitors, resistors, silver wiring, upgraded power transformer and redesign circuitry plays a little part in producing a different sounding amp clearly have no idea of how these changes will wrought on a tube amp. All the well known tube amps such as Zana Deux and DNA Stratus have upgraded their model over time with such tweaks and those who have heard all the iterations will tell you they sounded different and each new iterations sounded better. No one has insisted on a double blind test on those tube amps. 
  
 So Oskari is right. Don't feed the DBT throll.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> A buddy of mine just gave me two 1/4 " female to male resistor adapters. He made these up years ago when he had otl amps.
> One is 80 ohms and the other is 210 ohms.
> 
> Using the 210 right now on my PM3s and Elise. No more distortion at high listening levels. I could have used these on my Ether Cs.,
> but my Elears at 80 ohms stock + 210 ohms adapter =290 ohms, will sound sweet on the Euphoria!!!


 
  
 AQ, I've listened to Utopia, Elear, PM1 on Euforia at the meet. No distortion whatsoever. I crank the volume as high as my ears would allow. Not a trace of distortion. Those headphones worked very well on Euforia.
  
@hypnos1  your question on how different Utopia sounded from T1 and you wonder too about the Elear.
  
 If you like the tone of HD650, you'll love Elear more. It has more breath, texture, layers and bass but it's not overdone. 
  
 Utopia just sounded more alive over T1. More revealing and more articulate. Bass is more substantial but again it's not overdone. On a side by side comparison with HD800, it's the same experience for me. Utopia is more transparent, is agile and has attack, uncanny instruments separation and sounded totally euphonic to my ears. 
  
 However back home now and in the confines of my comfy study, T1 has not lost it's magic. It is still absolutely gorgeous with Euforia + EL12N and EL12. 
  
 So overtime I'll forget about Utopia. The only memory will be of the photo of me with Utopia on my head.


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
  
 Selling the PsVanes from my Euforia,
  
 Anybody want to give me an idea what they are worth?
  
 I know the Svetlanas are not worth the postage.
  
 Thanks,
 Jim


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> AQ, I've listened to Utopia, Elear, PM1 on Euforia at the meet. No distortion whatsoever. I crank the volume as high as my ears would allow. Not a trace of distortion. Those headphones worked very well on Euforia.
> 
> @hypnos1  your question on how different Utopia sounded from T1 and you wonder too about the Elear.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey UT, you must remember my Elise is (different than yours). Had alot of problems with distortion on low impedence headphones. The PM3s I'm listening to are on my Elise. It still is my office setup.
  
 I was even getting distortion on my Ether Cs on my Euforia at very high volume.
  
 These adapters are a real cheap way of adding resistance for an otl amp, instead of having to buy high z cans. I'm sure the extra ohms can only help.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Selling the PsVanes from my Euforia,
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL AQ. Wish you would say the same about the Elear not being worth the postage. Then I'll pay for the postage for you to send me the headphone.
  
 Sell the Psvane on the Elise thread for $80 a pair and they will go in a jiffy.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> LOL AQ. *Wish you would say the same about the Elear not being worth the postage*. Then I'll pay for the postage for you to send me the headphone.
> 
> Sell the Psvane on the Elise thread for $80 a pair and they will go in a jiffy.


 
 You never know. I might just be saying that next week, but I doubt it !!


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> You never know. I might just be saying that next week, but I doubt it !!


 
  
 Ok I will wait for next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Elear does sound good for blues and classic rock. Looks good in the flesh too.
  

  
 However Utopia feels like a class act in your hands and sounds it too. Tyll Hertsens call it the world's best headphone. Interestingly I just read his review after I post my impressions of Utopia vs HD800 vs T1. I have to say he echoed my thoughts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/worlds-best-headphone-focal-utopia#lofuMH4G2ZavGeSm.97


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Hey H1, Note the bold,
> 
> *Are you saying your Oppo is better than your tube dac?*, or am I missing something here?
> 
> P.S. Don't feed the trolls!!!!!


 
  
 NO WAY aq!...I was referring to Oppo's coax signal out _*to*_ my tube DAC lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... Oppo's integral DAC just doesn't come anywhere near - but then, it is an older version of the 103...the newer one might be better, and the new 105 (with the latest Sabre DAC) just might be some real competition! But for now, I'm more than happy...except my appetite has now been whetted for an Innuos Zen MKII media server with integral CD ripper/storage, by a guy coming to our local meet at the weekend...at least it's cheaper than some Utopias lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> AQ, I've listened to Utopia, Elear, PM1 on Euforia at the meet. No distortion whatsoever. I crank the volume as high as my ears would allow. Not a trace of distortion. Those headphones worked very well on Euforia.
> 
> @hypnos1  your question on how different Utopia sounded from T1 and you wonder too about the Elear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now then, UT...do I rob the bank and get the Utopias AND the aforementioned Zen MKII?...think long and hard on this before replying - *I BEG YOU!!!*








...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Now then, UT...do I rob the bank and get the Utopias AND the aforementioned Zen MKII?...think long and hard on this before replying - *I BEG YOU!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not my fault. Tyll is more glowing in his review of Utopia.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  The only difference is I heard Utopia on my Euforia with Psvane 6sn7 and GEC 6as7G and the headphone stayed with me for a long time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quoting him "Yes, this $4000 headphone is worth saving your pennies for."
  
 So start saving a $1 a day....


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> It's not my fault. Tyll is more glowing in his review of Utopia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, UT.... if that image is not as wonderfully airy and 3D-like as the T1s, then I don't want to know lol!!...(or am I just trying desperately to turn myself off them already?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...). Am saving for that Zen media server for sure, however!...


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> Quoting him "Yes, this $4000 headphone is worth saving your pennies for."




No, it isn't. It's obscene. But that's just my opinion. :rolleyes:


----------



## pctazhp

My goodness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All this talk about impedance. It it impeding my listening enjoyment. Don't you guys know A House is Not an Ohm???
  
 As for Utopia, I just ordered two of them. One for me and one for my wife. I told her it had 32 homes inside it and would work great with her iPhone. She said she would only listen to it at night with all the lights off, as she would never allow anyone to see her with such a contraption on her head.


----------



## mordy

I am thinking on getting a good pair of headphones at a reasonable price. There is a company called Thinksound that makes a headphone called ON2 that gets good reviews.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/thinksound-monitor-headphone-natural-black/dp/B01KZTHVGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490646650&sr=8-1&keywords=Thinksound+On2+headphones
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 The list price is $200. Does anybody have any experience with these?
  
 I do not do much listening with headphones so I don't want to spring for a T1 or 800. Any other recommendations in the sub $200 range?


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> No, it isn't. It's obscene. But that's just my opinion.


 
  
 LOL obscene. Please guys, can you all pitch in for my Utopia.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I am thinking on getting a good pair of headphones at a reasonable price. There is a company called Thinksound that makes a headphone called ON2 that gets good reviews.




50Ω… On-ear…

(I don't know anything about them.)


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> I am thinking on getting a good pair of headphones at a reasonable price. There is a company called Thinksound that makes a headphone called ON2 that gets good reviews.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/thinksound-monitor-headphone-natural-black/dp/B01KZTHVGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490646650&sr=8-1&keywords=Thinksound+On2+headphones
> 
> ...




On ear would be a killer for me. I need comfortable phones. On ears are not comfy.


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> I am thinking on getting a good pair of headphones at a reasonable price. There is a company called Thinksound that makes a headphone called ON2 that gets good reviews.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/thinksound-monitor-headphone-natural-black/dp/B01KZTHVGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490646650&sr=8-1&keywords=Thinksound+On2+headphones
> 
> ...




Open that wallet for another $100.00. and check out the Sen 650s. 
Not sure but massdrop had a drop for 650s at 199.00. Not sure if it is still on.


----------



## pctazhp

aqsw said:


> On ear would be a killer for me. I need comfortable phones. On ears are not comfy.


 

 Not sub-$200, but it doesn't get much more comfy than this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-HD-700-Headband-Headphones-Black-/201867171264?hash=item2f003895c0:g:dH4AAOSwc-tY1yEK


----------



## aqsw

Another one you may like is the Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohms. They are $260.00 Canadian on amazon.ca. Not sure where you are but they would pair well with Feliks.

Just checked $188.00 U.S on Amazon.com

Muchbetter than your original choice. AFAIC


----------



## Oskari

aqsw said:


> Not sure but massdrop had a drop for 650s at 199.00. Not sure if it is still on.




The HD 6XX I guess.



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/824703/sennheiser-x-massdrop-hd6xx-review-preview-head-fi-tv


----------



## aqsw

oskari said:


> The HD 6XX I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/824703/sennheiser-x-massdrop-hd6xx-review-preview-head-fi-tv


ī

Yea, that's the one. It's over now. The beyers are the way to go if you want sub $200.00.


----------



## aqsw

Wow, Listening to Msadman across the Water by Elton. Phenominal!

I have probably heard this album over 500 times. It was never this good !

I love this Euforia!


----------



## soundify

Does anyone use a Sony MDR Z1R and Chord Hugo with the Euforia? I was wondering how it sounds like? Unfortunately I can't try the amp here in SG.


----------



## aqsw

I'm sure nobody has that combo yet, as there are only about ten Euforias out. I'm sure it would sound fantastic though.


----------



## UntilThen

soundify said:


> Does anyone use a Sony MDR Z1R and Chord Hugo with the Euforia? I was wondering how it sounds like? Unfortunately I can't try the amp here in SG.




See my post on the Sony MDR Z1R with Euforia. I heard it at the Meet just 2 days ago. A nice sounding headphone but not in the league of Utopia. Which headphone is.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> See my post on the Sony MDR Z1R with Euforia. I heard it at the Meet just 2 days ago. A nice sounding headphone but not in the league of Utopia. Which headphone is.




You have to stop this UT. You keep me thinking about those Utopias. I'm thinking about what I should sell to subsidise a $5000.00 cdn headphone.
:


----------



## UntilThen

Utopia is by definition a state of things where everything is perfect.


----------



## soundify

Ahh, saw your post on the MDR Z1R.
 So it seems like a good match then. I want the tubey sound but also want the details, wide soundstage and speed without sounding bright or lean.
 I'm not really drooling after the Utopia's cause I want a closed and light headphone.
 Thanks!


----------



## mordy

When you shut off the Euforia the music stops instantly. With the Elise it sort of died down after a few seconds.
  
 In the past I was told to wait a few minutes to change tubes because the capacitors had to discharge once you shut the amp off.
  
 Is it possible that you can wait less time to change tubes with the Euforia since it shuts off instantly?
  
 The Euforia manual I think is only available in Polish so I could not find any answers there.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> I am thinking on getting a good pair of headphones at a reasonable price. There is a company called Thinksound that makes a headphone called ON2 that gets good reviews.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/thinksound-monitor-headphone-natural-black/dp/B01KZTHVGG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490646650&sr=8-1&keywords=Thinksound+On2+headphones
> 
> ...


 
 I've had those 2-3 years ago. They're on-ear which is more suitable for travel / isolation. I've tried/owned at least 15 models of on-ears and 100% of the time it's the case that these smaller headphones are not capable of living up to larger 'around the ear' cans, in terms of reaching that level of fidelidy/soundstage/clarity, etc. These to me sounded extremely 'colored' on all frequencies, with very fatiguing treble, boomy bass and slightly V-shaped. Like a cross between Senn. Momentum and ATH-M50x. For the Elise or Euforia, I still recommend the HD-600, or HD-650 if you like a slightly warmer sound.
  
 EDIT: I had the Thinksound ON-1, though it appears so similar to the ON-2


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Wow, Listening to Msadman across the Water by Elton. Phenominal!
> 
> I have probably heard this album over 500 times. It was never this good !
> 
> I love this Euforia!


 
  
 Hey careful, aq...you'll be having me believe my own utterings on this creature lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(but what a beautiful creature she is, to be sure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and I love her more by the day..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


mordy said:


> When you shut off the Euforia the music stops instantly. With the Elise it sort of died down after a few seconds.
> 
> In the past I was told to wait a few minutes to change tubes because the capacitors had to discharge once you shut the amp off.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...AFIK *all* capacitors will take quite a long while to fully discharge, so I'd still be careful lol!


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Utopia is by definition a state of things where everything is perfect.


 

 Problem solved here. Just saved myself $4,000.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Problem solved here. Just saved myself $4,000.


 
  
 Correct. That's the logic I applied when selecting my car audio speakers 5 years ago. I was seduced by the Focal Ultima 3 way but the price is $23,999 not including professional installation. As Oskari says, it's obscene.
  
 Instead, I chose Dynaudio Esotec 242gt and save myself lots of money.
  

  
 Many years ago, when selecting my stereo speakers, I was also intrigued by the Focal Grande Utopia but the price is $289,000 not including professional install in my hut. As Oskari says, it's obscene.
  

  
 Instead I chose local talent, Axis Ls88 and live happily ever after.


----------



## UntilThen

So using the logic of rationalisation, I ask myself 'What's wrong with this?' 
  
 Absolutely nothing. It's simply gorgeous.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Btw I haven't rolled those tubes in Euforia. Will get to it soon.


----------



## mordy

These Beyerdynamic DT-880 250 ohm headphones came up at $135. Since I am only a casual headphone listener, should I spring for these or hold out for the HD650 for $200 when it becomes available again from Massdrop?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/371898134883?rmvSB=true


----------



## connieflyer

I was just reading some reviews on the Utopia headphones and it had a link to the replacement ear pads $248 a pair period for the Elears the replacement ear pads are only a hundred and fifty dollars. I guess I won't be getting the arrears anytime soon.


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 How about a headphone stand for $12,000? And this special edition Utopia:
  
  





 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 At $120,000 a pair, and with the optional stand costing a further $12,000, Focal claims to have made the most expensive headphones on the planet.
 Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/news/focal-utopia-tournaire-are-worlds-most-expensive-headphones#qzWq6OXSjMVBIx7d.99
  
 Reminds me of a story I once heard from the head of a department of dentistry at a hospital: He got a phone call from a colleague that a well known film star wanted him to remove four molar teeth and he didn't know how much to charge him. The dept head told him: You have to charge him a lot; otherwise he is going to think that you aren't good.
  
 He charged $4000/tooth (this was in the 60's). Afterwards he got a thank you note stating: Thank you for being so reasonable.
  
 Where do these people live? On the moon?  (I mean the customers for $120,000 headphones)


----------



## connieflyer

Morty it goes back to the old saying, if you've got it flaunt it and they do.


----------



## UntilThen

About 30 hours on my Euforia now. I was using Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Tung Sol 7236 today and then the amp felt hot so I swapped to the tubes @aqsw  use. EL3N and EL12N.
  
 Cool and perfect sounding for George Winton - Autumn which is the season here now.
  
 This combo has good texture and clarity on Euforia. Great tone.... and Euforia stays cool.


----------



## aqsw

mordy said:


> These Beyerdynamic DT-880 250 ohm headphones came up at $135. Since I am only a casual headphone listener, should I spring for these or hold out for the HD650 for $200 when it becomes available again from Massdrop?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371898134883?rmvSB=true




That same seller has the dt990 at $165.00. 

If your budget is 200., I would buy those. No guarantee Massdrop is doing it again.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Correct. That's the logic I applied when selecting my car audio speakers 5 years ago. I was seduced by the Focal Ultima 3 way but the price is $23,999 not including professional installation. As Oskari says, it's obscene.
> 
> Instead, I chose Dynaudio Esotec 242gt and save myself lots of money.
> 
> ...


 

 The price of the Focal Grande Utopia is truly mind boggling, and helps explain the mind boggling (for me) price of the Utopia headphones. I started saving a dollar a day as you suggested. But then realized how old I am, did the math, and spent all my savings on frozen yogurt.
  
 My gut tells me that some members of our group will end up with Utopias, and that you may be one of them. At least I'll be able to tell all my Arizona friends I know people who own $4,000 headphones


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I was just reading some reviews on the Utopia headphones and it had a link to the replacement ear pads $248 a pair period for the Elears the replacement ear pads are only a hundred and fifty dollars. I guess I won't be getting the arrears anytime soon.


 

 I also read some of the reviews. I concluded the Utopias are better than my HD800S. I also concluded that only people who have just discovered they have $4,000 they didn't know they had, and already have more money than they could possibly spend in a lifetime, should be reading these reviews. I don't qualify so I quit reading and went out to dine at McDonald's.


----------



## connieflyer

And of course knowing you you didn't even ask if I'd like a Big Mac or two Shame Shame Shame


----------



## angpsi

Any idea about these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/272281904878 




I tried filtering headphone prices on eBay "from higher to lower" and this is what it came up with!
Oh, and these too (but I knew about them already): https://www.ebay.com/itm/132131288628


----------



## mordy

Here is a link for T1 Gen2 for $749.00 from a reputable seller:
  
 http://www.edealinfo.com/d/04010118718991/BeyerDynamic-T1-Second-Generation-On-Ear-3-5mm-Wired-Headphones


----------



## connieflyer

I am considering those but would rather have version one myself still looking for that, but if these are new and unopened not a return that's a great price.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


>




That is not a show of taste. But it is not for people with taste anyway.


----------



## hypnos1

Quote: 





pctazhp said:


> The price of the Focal Grande Utopia is truly mind boggling, and helps explain the mind boggling (for me) price of the Utopia headphones. I started saving a dollar a day as you suggested. But then realized how old I am, did the math, and spent all my savings on frozen yogurt.
> 
> My gut tells me that some members of our group will end up with Utopias, and that you may be one of them. *At least I'll be able to tell all my Arizona friends I know people who own $4,000 headphones
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hah, pct...you mean you wouldn't mind telling those friends you have links with folks who need sectioning lol?!!...Aaahh, but then, they already know that - you're here *with us!!!*​  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Am still gonna give 'em a listen at the weekend though!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  


connieflyer said:


> I am considering those but would rather have version one myself still looking for that, but if these are new and unopened not a return that's a great price.


 
  
 Hope you have luck getting those v1s, cf...._*again lol!*_​...but perfect ones next time!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Anyway, all you lucky folks out there....if any of you are interested in the long search for the mesh-plated Valvo EL11 or Australian Philips EL3N*​G - *​(and I assure you, the search is well worth it lol!) - a very friendly ebayer has surprised me by unearthing (at my plea) another EL3N version that has said plate, but with no maker's name alas...Again, it has the black glass, but no gold skirt as per the Aussie 'G', or another Philips EL3N I saw a good while ago now.                :  
  
  
  
  
  

  
 Plus, I've never come across those twin V-shaped fins before lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Just hope it works OK now!)...
  
 So keep your eyes peeled, and if you suspect a _possible_​ mesh plate, just message the vendor/ebayer and ask him/her to check for you...nothing to lose!!


----------



## connieflyer

Well I'm on my way I have one just need 3 more. It is a great sounding too though. Too bad they are in such short supply unless the supply hasn't been on Earth yet because those people that are sitting on it are not aware of what they have. We could only be so lucky.


----------



## connieflyer

And as far as that a deal went for the Beyer T1 version 2 I checked right after I saw Morty's ad and the price was a thousand 99 so no deal there.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> The price of the Focal Grande Utopia is truly mind boggling, and helps explain the mind boggling (for me) price of the Utopia headphones. I started saving a dollar a day as you suggested. But then realized how old I am, did the math, and spent all my savings on frozen yogurt.
> 
> My gut tells me that some members of our group will end up with Utopias, and that you may be one of them. At least I'll be able to tell all my Arizona friends I know people who own $4,000 headphones


 

 Pct you are wrong. Now back at home in the comfort of my chair, I realized I already have some of the best sounding headphones with Euforia. With Utopia fading rapidly from my memory, these sounded 'gold' to me. Bound to please any Sultans of Swing.


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  while searching through my photos, I found this EL3Ng photo saved on the 11th December 2015, a few months after I bought Elise. Now where did I put the tube???


----------



## UntilThen

Hehehe just when you thought you're done with EL11, EL12, let me remind you there's still the gorgeous EL33 which is the equivalent of EL3N.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh there's even a Osram KT61, equivalent of EL33.


----------



## Oskari

You are such a tease, UT!


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Just went on the website - you are correct that the price is $1099.00 but there is a discount code taking off $350.00. I just went through the motions and the price comes at $749.00
  
Shipping Calculator Country
 Zip code
  
  

   Coupon code:  




 
  Subtotal:
$1,099.00​  
  
 Shipping:
 ​  
  
  Savings:
$350.00​  
 coupons:
 c1172287377
(Limit 3 per order)​  
  

 Tax:
$0.00​  
  
  
 Order Total :
$749.00​ 

 


  
 The coupon code starts with a c and is right above the red print.
 BuyDig.com is a major company and I never had any trouble dealing with them.


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Hehehe just when you thought you're done with EL11, EL12, let me remind you there's still the gorgeous EL33 which is the equivalent of EL3N.


 
  
  


untilthen said:


> Huh there's even a Osram KT61, equivalent of EL33.


 

 Ah yes, UT...._*but do they have mesh plates lol?!!!*_​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...CHEERS!...


----------



## aqsw

My Elears arrived this afternoon. Just took them out of the box. I have not listened to them yet. They look brand new. The guy I bought them from says they have less than 50 hours on them. I must say, fit and finish is A1.


----------



## UntilThen

The Elear is a very nice sounding headphone. I was quite floored by it. Certainly worth a listen if you can. It is gutsy and impactful.


----------



## aqsw

untilthen said:


> The Elear is a very nice sounding headphone. I was quite floored by it. Certainly worth a listen if you can. It is gutsy and impactful.




Listening to them now, and I love the sound signature. Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't like it but damn it sounds nice. 

Heavier than the T1, but it seems like its a notch up in quality. Could just be the weight though.

Those Utopias are calling me. Will take a while to save though.


----------



## mordy

I reckon that I have some 50 hours on the Euforia by now. Whatever the hours are (I don't keep an exact tab), some kind of milestone has been reached. Suddenly the amp sounds more engaging, more lively, more beautiful.
  
 And it is going to improve more - I'm sure.


----------



## UntilThen

AQ your assessment of Elear being heavier and weightier than T1 is correct...both on the scale and in sound.

Despite its weight of 450g it feels comfortable on the head. However it's the full bodied tone that draws me. This could be a headphone I would simply enjoy music with.

This and a HD800 or T1 would be complimentary.


----------



## Lorspeaker

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> 
> Just went on the website - you are correct that the price is $1099.00 but there is a discount code taking off $350.00. I just went through the motions and the price comes at $749.00
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 is this for the Uforia?


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> is this for the Uforia?


 
  
 Heh Lors.... it's Euforia not Uforia. Don't change the name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Speaking of Euforia, I came home and after settling down, change the tubes to Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Bendix 6080wb, plug in HD650 and press play... holy Lors... I'm hearing things I've not heard before on Dire Straits Live At The BBC - Six Bladed Knife. This is a live recording and the sound is unreal. Knopfler guitar works magic through my dynamic drivers.
  
 Euforia sounds better everyday....


----------



## UntilThen

I'm starting to enjoy going back to 6sn7 and 6as7/6080. It's still a great tone on Elise and Euforia. I like the clean look and pure sound.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> I'm starting to enjoy going back to 6sn7 and 6as7/6080. It's still a great tone on Elise and Euforia. I like the clean look and pure sound.


 
 I think my new current favorite combo is EL11-ST/TS5998. With Elise, simply stunning.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> And of course knowing you you didn't even ask if I'd like a Big Mac or two Shame Shame Shame


 

 I tried, but they said you had already exceeded your annual limit.


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you for trying!


----------



## hypnos1

lorspeaker said:


> is this for the Uforia?


 

 Hi L...._*you wish, lol!!*_​..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.T1s, I believe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(so get saving!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## connieflyer

@hypnos1 a little morning relaxation


----------



## connieflyer

Euforia is working wonderfully, thanks to @pctazhp for suggesting this combo almost.. El11 mesh plate, E11 round plate, Gold Aero 5998A


----------



## Wreckgar7

Just got my Telefunken EL12, and running them with EL12N right now, but a strange thing, when i use the telefunken as powertubes i get a quite loud hum, but as drivers its one of the most pitch blackgrounds i experienced with the elise, anyone can understand why?
 Btw, love the EL12 driver/power combo.
  
 Edit: I just noticed i posted in Euforia thread, i have the Elise, sorry about that.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I reckon that I have some 50 hours on the Euforia by now. Whatever the hours are (I don't keep an exact tab), some kind of milestone has been reached. Suddenly the amp sounds more engaging, more lively, more beautiful.
> 
> And it is going to improve more - I'm sure.


 
  
 Sure will mordy..._*guaranteed*_​ lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
  


untilthen said:


> I'm starting to enjoy going back to 6sn7 and 6as7/6080. It's still a great tone on Elise and Euforia. I like the clean look and pure sound.


 
  
  


pctazhp said:


> I think my new current favorite combo is EL11-ST/TS5998. With Elise, simply stunning.


 
  
 Once again guys...so many choices, so little time/money/etc etc !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't think of any other amp that can make such a great variety of tubes sing like canaries..._*at any price, lol!!*_​...(except Elise, of course!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....literally *something for everyone*​...


connieflyer said:


> Euforia is working wonderfully, thanks to @pctazhp for suggesting this combo almost.. El11 mesh plate, E11 round plate, Gold Aero 5998A


 
  
 Glad you're liking those 11s, cf, and that the Gold Aeros do too lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...am losing count of the different tubes and combos that are bringing us all endless joy...may the Gods bless Feliks-Audio!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Better finish getting stuff (and me!) ready for the meet on Sunday...bit of a pain, but hopefully will be worth the effort!...CJ


----------



## Oskari

mordy

It's time to ditch that puny speaker amp of yours. Here's your new amp: https://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-7.html. The bad news is that it's only $25,000. The good news is that you need two for stereo.


----------



## DecentLevi

Alert, 6 new pairs of EL 12 spez have just surfaced on eBay and a pretty reasonable price too. For me they have been the ultimate in transparency and fluidity on the elise anyway


----------



## mordy

Hey Oskari,
  
 A little bit unfair to tempt me with these amps - at 2500lbs each I think that they will be too hard for me to move around lol.
  
 Anyhow, just received a shipment from China now. I had made a huge investment in 5mm ferrite core adapters ($1.18 for five, incl shipping). Clipped one onto a RCA patch cord from my PC to my amp - did absolutely nothing.
  
 Then I clamped one onto the USB feed from my laptop to my amp. I am using EL12N/EL6 tubes, Here one channel is in UT territory without any audible hum in one channel; the other channel has the slightest of hiss/noise at max volume. It is possible that the ferrite clamp further reduced the noise, but it is still ever so slightly there. Say tuned for further developments, if any.....
  
 I don't have any EL12 Spezial yet to try the ferrite cores on.
  
 And the Euforia keeps on sounding better and better.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, it's time you get a Gryphon Diablo 300.
  

  
  
 or see Lukasz for a solid discount on the gorgeous Williams.


----------



## UntilThen

Today my Euforia grew wings and decided it's time to rattle that lock and set itself free. Still running Sylvania and Bendix but the rhythm is picking up pace and swaying in tune, the stage opens and Gilmore's voice is like vintage wine.


----------



## UntilThen

*Euforia + Sylvania 6sn7gtb and Cetron 7236*.
  
 Another great sounding combo on Euforia. The sweet clear tone of the Sylvania chrome top in combination with the tight hard hitting tone of Cetron 7236. Cymbals shimmers and tom toms hit like ..... well what do you think tom toms hit like? 
  

  
 ...and here's a video for you to enjoy. If the girl looks up, you know you've the right tube combos.


----------



## connieflyer

"fraid I can not top UT's young lady, so I will just help you chill with a nice trio from my old days. The Don Shirley Trio


----------



## connieflyer

No one here yet so a bit more soft jazz.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps a quiet bass line


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps you remember him for his best known hit.  Water Boy


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 Inspired by your EL-less tube combo, I dove into my stash of 6SN7 tubes and found a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTA chrome tops born in 1954. Added my most expensive tubes - the GEC 6AS7G.
  

  
 Sounds very good - really not much different from the EL12N/EL6 combo on a first impression, but I have to reserve judgment until I have more time listening.
  
 Do you find that the Euforia runs hot with 2.5A power tubes? I think that h1 prefers cooler running tubes.
  
 At least I am now obeying the factory recommendations for the tube complement.
  
 2nd impression: The GECs have that special energy, especially in the mid range. And this combo is essentially humpfrey with only the slightest trace of hiss in one channel at max volume.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Inspired by your EL-less tube combo, I dove into my stash of 6SN7 tubes and found a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTA chrome tops born in 1954. Added my most expensive tubes - the GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Euforia or Elise will be hot with 6as7 and 6080 but that's normal and no cause for alarm. It's a common thing with tube amps. My Figaro is even hotter to the touch. I have a fan to keep it cool. Just a low speed to circulate the air will keep it cool even when using the amp for several hours.
  
 Running EL tubes does indeed keep it cool but that is an unreasonable expectation of a tube amp - that it operate as cool as it does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good to know that your 'standard' combo is essentially humpfrey.
  
 I'm listening to music now and not really fussed with finding the perfect combo anymore. There are enough recommended tubes in my collection to last more than a lifetime.


----------



## aqsw

Gotta love Master and Dynamics. I use the MW60 on my portable system with a Fio X7 and they are fantastic.

Would love to get a set of these!!!

http://blog.masterdynamic.com/article/over-ear-concrete-headphones


----------



## mordy

Hi Alfred E,
  
 My first thought was that with all that weight you got to go to the gym first for neck strengthening exercises, but then I got it.......
  





  
 And just to put things into perspective:
  




  
 And to bring us back to a different era of headphones:


----------



## Oskari

Where is our fearless leader and what happened at Milton Keynes? :regular_smile :


----------



## mordy

Very quiet on the Euforia front - I guess everybody is busy listening and since everything sounds good with the Euforia there isn't so much incentive for tube rolling.....
  
 Anyhow, I have been rolling power tubes today - a pair of EL12 Tungsram tubes. The drivers are a pair of old looking RFT EL12N with a brownish getter flash.
  
 Very enjoyable and lively presentation with a very wide sound stage.  A little bright, and most prominently, a huge thumping, visceral bass that has to be toned down by my bass tone control so as not to be overwhelming.
  
 Tried what looks like a newer pair EL12N - the sound signature is pretty much the same. (One came in a Siemens box but is unmarked; the other one has a big M on it.)
  
 I am advancing in life - the serial number of my Euforia is #8 - my Elise is #9. Wonder how many Euforias have been shipped  - 10?


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...just a quick, brief few words (honest!) on post-meetus glow...and _​remorse_​ lol!!...Glow from meeting some really great guys and seeing some very nice gear....remorse for seeing my beloved tube DAC blown out of the water - by the ridiculously small, (but at least bigger than the miniscule Mojo), Chord Hugo 2. And my only solace has come from ordering said upstart this very day, even though my wallet is hardly reciprocating said solace...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It did things for Euforia I hadn't thought possible...will expand in a later post...
  
 Another boost to performance came from Acapella11's monster 'Titan' mains conditioner at a mini-meet his place the next morning. Placed after his own PowerInspired Mains Regenerator, the sound became even 'cleaner' and clearer from an even darker background, both with his Questyle CMA800 SS amp/HD800 setup and my own gear. Unfortunately, his Titan is Titanic money also, but just proved that _good_ examples of these conditioning units _can_​ bring further improvements to already very good gear...so will be looking into something that might just come near, without breaking the bank..._again!!_ 
  
 A/B'ing Euforia with the Questyle proved very interesting indeed, and much more informative in fact (for me, at least) than anything else at the meet...apart from that Hugo DAC!!  And basically confirmed there are indeed certain areas where SS can surpass tubes...even my lovely mesh plates LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ie. in the cleanliness/conciseness/coherence of detail separation. I never fully appreciated this fact until _very_​ swift swapping between amps, with a track that I'm sure would test even the best of equipment - "Snake Eyes", from The Alan Parson's Project "Turn of a Friendly Card". The typical, inherent tube 'warmth' does seem to do so by presenting some of the finer detail in a more 'homogeneous' way, which is therefore less 'clinical' and more 'pleasant sounding' to most ears...'easier listening', if you will, and which is precisely the attraction of tubes. _*BUT*_​...once you hear those details teased out more, folks like me want them all back lol...but without any of the less attractive aspects of most _affordable_ SS equipment!!!....In other words, the seemingly _impossible_​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and so perhaps my journey isn't _completely_​ at an end after all?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But if trying further combinations of my best tubes can't achieve the impossible, then so be it...at least I know I shall be even happier than I am now come the end of May, when my Hugo2 arrives LOL!...
  
 The turnout at the meet was far lower than hoped for, which unfortunately meant  less interest in my particular setup, but there were at least several who tried it and were impressed with the sound...and with Euforia's understated but purposeful and neat, well-built appearance.
  
 Ooops...did I say a 'few' words? OK, time to catch up on some sleep....Cheers for now, and G'night all...


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Where is our fearless leader and what happened at Milton Keynes?


 

 We crossed in Space methinks, O...plus my head is still spinning from some of the aspects just touched(?!) upon...this whole subject is GINORMOUS beyond belief lol...should have remembered that _*ignorance is bliss!!!*_​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...now let me get my beauty sleep, mon ami!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...BFN...CJ


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Is this the one?


----------



## UntilThen

No Mordy that's the new Sony Playstation. :rofl:

H1 this is why you shouldn't attend a meet. You will end up buying something.

Did you listen to Utopia?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> No Mordy that's the new *Sony Playstation*. :rofl:
> 
> H1 this is why you shouldn't attend a meet. You will end up buying something.
> 
> Did you listen to Utopia?


 
 Whatever it is, it's portable, which will match well with the highly portable Euforia. I have ordered one of these in anticipation of Euforia's arrival at the end of the month:


----------



## Lorspeaker

a less expensive tweak..
  
 brush the tubepins n amp/headphone connectors with this .... "carbon diatonic setten no.1" 
 ( comes in newer bottling now i think on Jap Ebay)
 and u will hear another level of clarity/realism in the music. 
 "100%proven"...errr u have to trust me on this


----------



## tjw321

hypnos1 said:


> ...
> _*BUT*_​...once you hear those details teased out more, folks like me want them all back lol...but without any of the less attractive aspects of most _affordable_ SS equipment!!!....In other words, the seemingly _impossible_​
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This has been my "white whale" ever since setting up my Ifi SS stack in one room, and my Elise/Bimby stack in another. The closest I have come is by adding the iTube to the Ifi stack but it's still a little too SS. There is now an Ifi iTube2 which,I understand, is more adjustable in terms of the amount of "tubiness" it injects which might get a little closer to what I'm aiming for, but my wallet hasn't allowed me to justify the upgrade (yet). Even more expensive is the Ifi iCan PRO which combines a SS amp with a tube amp. I've never heard it and it's way outside my budget but maybe one day...unless I get the Euforia instead...
 I really wanted to get to the met but it was on my daughter's birthday and I know which is more important. Hopefully next year and/or CanJam.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought a couple of new CDs and have been enjoying them with Euforia and HD650 / T1. I have been using Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Cetron 7236 for several days and they will remain resident tubes until a week is over.These days I'm not anxious to change tubes in a hurry. Spending a week with a combo will give me more time to evaluate the tubes and just enjoy the music.
  
 My CDs are some of the oldies but goodies 
  
 Goodbye Yellow Brick Road - Elton John
 The best of Cold Chisel
 Carpenters singles 1969 - 1981
 Diana Krall - Best of
 Steely Dan - The Definitive Collection
 Andre Rieu and his Johann Strauss Orchestra


----------



## connieflyer

Nice selection of music, have Elton and Diana and with good recordings they are excellent.


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, you could also bump on really interesting finds at https://archive.org/details/etree —just remembered because I stumbled upon a few of my own old downloads from that place!


----------



## UntilThen

lorspeaker said:


> a less expensive tweak..


 
  
 Trust me, the best tweak is a new comfy chair. Your sonics will soar.....


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Is this the one?


 
  
 Hi mordy...yes indeed! Not cheap (at all lol!!), but for reasons I shall expand upon at the end here, the sort of expenditure I never thought I'd even consider...until my eyes were opened big time these past few days - for better or worse lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those who say that different DACs - in these modern times - bring only marginal gains have, like me, MUCH to learn...I'll say no more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...apart from the fact that this ridiculously small piece of kit delivers improvements (not just _differences_) in sound right across the board - you name it, it improves it...full stop! (in both a very good SS rig, and my own).


untilthen said:


> No Mordy that's the new Sony Playstation. :rofl:
> 
> H1 this is why you shouldn't attend a meet. You will end up buying something.
> 
> Did you listen to Utopia?


 
  
 Hi UT...in many ways, perhaps I should not have gone there, but once enlightened about certain facts, one cannot _*un*_learn them LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... Especially when they turn upside down what you believed to be sacrosanct...but this is precisely what knowledge does, and I for one simply cannot ignore it alas - much as I try! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 Anyway, the upshot is that I now realise my setup - as with all others'! - has more weaknesses than I care to admit, and I intend to address them as best I can...within budget, of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fortunately, I am still more than happy with my T1s - as with Elise, Euforia could have been made just for these!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. What did surprise me was how much better the HD800 sounded with the new amp, compared to my initial impression 2 years ago with Elise. Back then, I felt they were just a tad 'lightweight', compared to the Beyers. But Euforia brings out a much more impressively dynamic sound in the Senns, and a wonderful soundstage that isn't at all _too_ wide...along with all the usual qualities of these cans - I was very impressed indeed! I personally still prefer the extra 'bite' of the T1s, and their overall presentation that I would describe as 'cavernous'. But I can fully understand why others prefer the 800...slightly easier listening for the long haul LOL!...probably best to have _*both*_*!*





...
  
 As for the Utopias...wasn't able to grab hold of them to try in Euforia, but had a quick listen in an amazing young college lad's mammoth SS creation (built with only the very best of everything, and which I'm sure could put to shame multi, multi K dollar tube amps!), and was mightily impressed. But a. ...no wonder, given this amp would be impossibly expensive if on the commercial market!!, and b. ...NO WAY - to me, at least - worth anything like the kind of silly money they want for them. This is one 'tweak' I can ignore quite easily lol!
  


pctazhp said:


> Whatever it is, it's portable, which will match well with the highly portable Euforia. I have ordered one of these in anticipation of Euforia's arrival at the end of the month:


 
  
 Hi pct...the Chord DAC might well be portable, but the other area I'm addressing most certainly is _*not*_ lol!...ie EDIT..not 15 Kg...*24Kg!!* of Balanced Mains Conditioner with Advanced Filtering  :
  

  

  

  
 Why? Because extra conditioning of the PowerInspired Mains Regenerator cleaned up the sound to a greater degree than even the PI by itself. And not wanting to spend the kind of money Acapella11 did with his 'Titan', I'm going the 'Balanced Mains' route with extra noise/interference filtration in some serious kit produced by homegrown transformer etc. makers 'Airlinktransformers', at prices much more more reasonable than usual for this kind of thing...courtesy of Dave (@Middy) at the meet.
  
 So once again - as UT says - go to meets and you end up out of pocket lol! But at least I've heard with my own ears just what certain things can indeed bring to the table, rather than relying on others' impressions all the time. And, of course, all such things are relative in the cost/benefit arena...with the added complication of _subjective_ factors!
  
 Which brings me to my final thoughts on all this....


lorspeaker said:


> a less expensive tweak..
> 
> brush the tubepins n amp/headphone connectors with this .... "carbon diatonic setten no.1"
> ( comes in newer bottling now i think on Jap Ebay)
> ...


 
  
 Hi L...oh yes...certainly less expensive - and possibly of help to those with less-than-sparkling connections lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I'm afraid in my own case I doubt it would do very much, given nice shiny gold plate nearly everywhere!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And thus, I am resorting to rather more expensive tweaks alas...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but only because I've reached a stage in life where 'compromise' - which has been prominent up until now - is not in fact always the most sensible course of action...(as with the quality of work tools, for example!).
  
 And so, rather than taking progressive 'nibbles' at my system, I've decided to dip into the savings that are, in fact, losing value by the day given our horrendously low rates for savers, and _*spend the money*_ - ie. greater satisfaction *now*, rather than bits at a time (which often end up more expensive, and with _lower_ satisfaction!)....this is my excuse, anyway!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

Good idea, H1, have been thinking along those lines as well. Hardly any return on money these days, and since I am not going to live forever (I know PCT, you must prepare yourself for my eventual demise!) that is the reason I got he Euforia after the Elise.  Hopefully that will satisfy me for a bit. But if not, I have already made up my mind to just get the McIntosh and be done with it. SS I know, but very nice, and always loved the blue meters!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> We crossed in Space methinks, O...




Yes. I was slightly worried there not having heard anything. :regular_smile :


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...in many ways, perhaps I should not have gone there, but once enlightened about certain facts, one cannot _*un*_learn them LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That was the impressions of HD800 that I have at the meet. I am quite certain that HD800 is in my horizon, along with an unnamed dac......


----------



## mordy

Let's see:
  
 McIntosh Headphone amp MHA150: $4,500.00
  
 Focal Utopia headphones: $4,000.00
  
 Chord Hugo2 DAC: $2,195.00 + $169.00 for leather case
  
 Blue Hawaii SE amp: $6,879.00
  
 Where are we heading?
  
 Wolfs?
  
 Sheep?
  
 Unicorns?


----------



## UntilThen

No Mordy. We are not heading in that direction. At least not me.
  
 HD800 or T1, Focal Elear or HD650, Euforia and an unnamed dac - that's all for me. 
  
 ... and better accessories.


----------



## UntilThen

But secretly there might just be room for me for one of Glenn's amp. 

Waiting on Whirlwind's appraisal of the EL3N against his OTL.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hmmm maybe I'll make a 'Euforius' rig: Euforia on one channel, and half the Orpheus on the other channel (since the $55k is a little painful LOL).
  
 On a serious note, my Euforia isn't going to make it in time for Can Jam in L.A. this weekend. I paid an extra $35 for EMS shipping, but 9 days later the only status update was leaving Poland 8 days ago. It wouldn't have been burned in by then anyway.
  
 Looks like my Euforia will be in for some tough standards when I do receive it though, as this weekend I've got a 10-min. slot reserved with the Orpheus 2, as well as 16 hours with the biggest, newest and best gear out there, also including the new Woo Audio WA33 300b tube amp. But I'm hoping in the end the Euforia should suit me just fine anyway.


----------



## UntilThen

DL I've already got that figured out. Elise on one channel and Euforia on the other.


----------



## Seamaster

mordy said:


> Let's see:
> 
> McIntosh Headphone amp MHA150: $4,500.00
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is why I quit this game.


----------



## Seamaster

untilthen said:


> But secretly there might just be room for me for one of Glenn's amp.
> 
> Waiting on Whirlwind's appraisal of the EL3N against his OTL.


 
  
 White eagle Vs. bald eagle, let's see


----------



## mordy

Hi Seamaster,
  
 I am not quitting because I am happy with what I have.
  
 On the other hand I was happy with my Little Dot MKIII. Then I kept upgrading the tubes and I was happy with it. Then I got the Elise and I was happy with it. Then I upgraded the tubes and I was happy with it.
  
 Then I got the Euforia and upgraded the tubes and I was happy with it. Very happy.
  
 I realize that what I have is not perfection, but I am not searching any more. I will never reach perfection with my audio equipment, but what I have now is very satisfying and I do not feel the need to go further.
  
 The question (which I know the answer to) is: If I got the state of the art stuff, will I be totally happy?
  
 It never ends, but I am stopping here. Is it a question of diminishing returns, or is it a difference like night and day?
  
 Don't think that I am going to find out. Too expensive.
  
 On the other hand. if the mods or the new equipment are very inexpensive, I am willing to try it.
  
 PS: I assume that what you mean with quitting was not that you gave up on tube amps, but that you decided not to upgrade any more.


----------



## pctazhp

seamaster said:


> That is why I quit this game.


 

 Except for my pending Euforia order, I too have fallen by the wayside.
  
 I haven’t been posting here recently because I don’t have much new of value to report. I can’t really keep up with all the multiple amps and expensive headphones, not to mention new expensive DACs.
  
 Because I may be the only one on the thread using HD800S (there are several who use the HD800 Classic), my tube preferences may vary somewhat from what is often popular here. About a year ago I chose the S over T1.2, but it was a difficult choice. My final decision was based on a feeling that overall the S was better for extended listening sessions, even though the T1 has a certain magic that is missing from the S. I have never heard the Classic, but I shied away from it because of what I had read about the treble spike and the problem I have with my HD700.
  
 I suspect the S may be a little more difficult to match tube with than either the T1 or the Classic. I won’t say the S treble is rolled off, but it does benefit from tubes that have detail and sparkle at the top. The bass is probably the most problematic part of matching the S with tubes. As many know, Sennheiser added a touch of even order distortion to the bass in an effort to improve on the Classic. Their sleight of hand works, but I think that tubes that have too much even order distortion overwhelm the bass. I don’t think the S bass can ever be described as tight or exhibiting a lot of “slam”. But on most recordings it sounds fairly accurate and usually pleasing.
  
 I think @DecentLevi and I may be the only ones using Schiit R2R DACs, but as I recall he didn’t like the Bimby, which I use.
  
 So in the end, I guess pretty much like everyone, I have to rely primarily on my own experience to determine what is best for me. I don’t have the discretionary funds to chase more high-priced headphones or DACs. But I am looking forward to Euforia, which will have to suffice as my extravagant purchase for the year))
  
 But, enough rambling for this morning.


----------



## Seamaster

Agree with pctazhp and mordy.
  
 Once up on a time, I was moving into the current house and everything was just laying around randomly. I wanted to listen to music but my full system was not setup. So I placed my Tannoy about a feet on each side of my listening chair and turn on the music, BAM! everything I knew about expensive headphones went to the garbage, near field listening is the ultimate HP experience! Not only my head, but my whole body was immersed in the music (Tannoy are kind big, small speakers may feel different)


----------



## DavidA

seamaster said:


> Agree with pctazhp and mordy.
> 
> Once up on a time, I was moving into the current house and everything was just laying around randomly. I wanted to listen to music but my full system was not setup. So I placed my Tannoy about a feet on each side of my listening chair and turn on the music, BAM! everything I knew about expensive headphones went to the garbage, near field listening is the ultimate HP experience! Not only my head, but my whole body was immersed in the music (Tannoy are kind big, small speakers may feel different)


 
 I might try this with my KEF 103.3, just need to mount the SAE X-10 under the dining table so I don't kick it.


----------



## tjw321

pctazhp said:


> ...
> I think @DecentLevi and I may be the only ones using Schiit R2R DACs, but as I recall he didn’t like the Bimby, which I use.
> ...


 
 Bimby user here - but I've stuck with the Elise. It took me years to save up for the T1s so the Euforia isn't going to happen overnight


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> Yes. I was slightly worried there not having heard anything.


 
  
 Fear not, O...I was - and still am - getting my head around the issues highlighted in my mind, both at the meet and my subsequent 'mini-meet' lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But now, I have no qualms whatsoever about appearing rather OTT/foolhardy/extravagant/whatever, in my final decisions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As triggered by my previous post, this whole area of upgradeitis is a fraught one, and can indeed get way out of hand.... diminishing returns being only just one aspect, of course!
  
 However, my own realisation is based upon findings that can bring tangible improvements to a product - ie. Euforia - that truly capitalise on its full *potential*...and in ways I didn't fully appreciate before :
  
 1. The importance of original mains power supply is now clearly much greater than I had always believed, and confirmed by the obvious problems experienced by many in tubeamp land especially, and that can be traced right back to this source. Electricity, of course, is not only what powers our components...it is what carries our sound signal throughout the chain. And whatever unwanted contamination there is from original source is going to be amplified along with the sounds we _*do*_ want.  And when you trace our immediate, _local_ source way back to _*its*_ origin (plus the massive associated network), it's no surprise that contamination can become a massive source of interference for sensitive amplification equipment such as ours.
 Hence I believe this to be an area greatly underestimated by many, and given far less attention than it deserves lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and hence my escalated assault on this 'gremlin'.
  
 2. As I mentioned previously, the DAC does indeed appear also to have a far greater influence on the final result than  many perhaps appreciate, and therefore also warrants much closer scrutiny.
  
 Now then, of course different headphones can sometimes be a much more cost-effective way to alter/"improve" sound, in any particular system already very good (unless we go Utopia land), but when amp and cans are giving us _basically_ the sound we want, I feel it is only sensible to explore other areas in the signal line that may well _*maximise*_ (or _nearly!_) what they are capable of. I personally do not feel this is foolhardy/unnecessary/irrelevant in any way whatsoever, but of course is constrained by financial situation...or at least _should_ be LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(I now gauge my own expenditure on this by _average_ figures on exotic holidays/drinks/eating/other hobbies/cars/loose women(!!), etc. etc., and my recent extravagances don't seem so wanton!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Especially since I know my mistress Euforia _*deserves*_* it!*




  


mordy said:


> Let's see:
> 
> McIntosh Headphone amp MHA150: $4,500.00
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mordy...sincerely hope my own extravagances don't go _quite_ so far as this lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(am pretty sure they won't really need to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
  
 And @pctazhp....I have to correct my previous post to you - more like :
  

  
 ie. the Balanced Mains Unit with advanced filtering in question is not 15kg...it's *24kg!!!*...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...but all in a worthy cause lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

Well, it's all just a matter of money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Last year I was just a poor conductor. This year I'm a *POOR *wayfaring stranger adrift in a land of milk, honey, DACs whose names can't be mentioned, 300B amps, $4,000 earmuffs and nuclear power generating plants.


----------



## pctazhp

So nothing more left for me to do than
  

  
 But with Euforia tightly clutched under my arms, of course


----------



## mordy

Hi Seamaster and DavidA,
  
 Most of my listening is nearfield listening, whatever that means. My humble Polk speakers are about 2' away from me on either side.
  
 I remember way back there was a 6' speaker called Dunlavy SC-VI that somebody called "the world's largest headphones....."
  




  
 In 1998 they cost  25K ; the weight was 530 lbs each.


----------



## Seamaster

mordy said:


> Hi Seamaster and DavidA,
> 
> Most of my listening is nearfield listening, whatever that means. My humble Polk speakers are about 2' away from me on either side.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The trend of audio industry has been going backward in last 10~20 years, incase no one has realized that.


----------



## DavidA

mordy said:


> Hi Seamaster and DavidA,
> 
> Most of my listening is nearfield listening, whatever that means. My humble Polk speakers are about 2' away from me on either side.
> 
> ...


 

 ​reminds me of one of the end scenes from "the Italian job" where the guy gets a set of speaker to "blow the cloths off" a girl, LOL


----------



## UntilThen

Last night I fell asleep on the floor next to the subwoofer and this morning the dog flick the music on and I awoke with an overdose of low frequency rumble that is so gratifying.
  
 So I think I will order this bed.


----------



## mordy

Hi S,
  
 Can you explain what you mean with the audio industry going backward?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 At first I thought the picture showed a Jacuzzi....


----------



## Seamaster

mordy said:


> Hi S,
> 
> Can you explain what you mean with the audio industry going backward?


 
  
 The power war was over, tubes are back and stay for good, high efficiency speakers, near-filed listing, horns, field-coil speakers, small flea-powered amps, isolation using natural materials (cotton, silk, oil), use of tin in wires, full-range single drivers speakers, wide frontal speaker designs......the old techs are all coming back at us. I just bought a pair of McIntosh MC30 that were made in the 60s' and sold my 2015 MC75, never looked back!


----------



## mordy

Hi S,
  
 Is this the one?
  




  
 OK, restored price $3K/pair + u need a preamp - maybe the Euforia will do...
  
 How many watts are those MC30 amps?
  
  
 Back to the future:


----------



## UntilThen

Dammm that's my coveted Tannoy.


----------



## UntilThen

This one and I'll call it quits


----------



## Seamaster

mordy said:


> Hi S,
> 
> Is this the one?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I got mine from the same guy Jeff Days got from. They are about 30 WPC but actual good for 40+ watts, very natural sounding, mad dynamic for such old design.
  
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-mighty-mc30s.752327/
  


untilthen said:


> Dammm that's my coveted Tannoy.


 
  
 You can have the speaker, I will take the girl!
  
  

[u][color=rgb(0, 102, 204)]UntilThen,[/color][/u] the YouTube sounds like crap, the real speakers are not like that, ha ha


----------



## UntilThen

seamaster said:


> You can have the speaker, I will take the girl!


 
  
 Good choice but stick to the music please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 .... and I love this track. Who is this Nils Lorfgren? Superb acoustics.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> So nothing more left for me to do than
> 
> 
> 
> But with Euforia tightly clutched under my arms, of course




  
 Make that _real_ tightly, pct...and don't ever let go! There was the odd moment or two at the meet when I _almost_ felt my own begin to slip slightly - but as @UntilThen said on returning from the Sydney show, once back home and under her spell once more, thoughts of another mistress just fade away lol! This amp simply continues to hit all the right buttons for me...(which, once more, is why I want to shower her with gifts!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 And on a side note, I did start to see whether perhaps some of my previous best-of-the-best tube combos might just bring a bit more of the impossible best of SS with that of tubes (sans Unicorns, lol!!), but for me personally, nothing approaches the (ever-so-slightly-flawed) magic of my mesh plate EL3NG and Valvo EL11 driving the 12 Spezials..._*nothing!*_  And I'm still loving the thought that inside she's running cool as a cucumber (well, _almost_), regardless of measurements that have F-A scratching their heads LOL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...and which can only be welcome extra help for the new resistor circuits IMHO...
  
 May the Gods ensure swift, safe passage of your own bringer of joy _very_ soon, mon ami...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## UntilThen

Alright tubes for the next week are Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Tung Sol 5998. No more lusting after Tannoys. This is real and sounds very the good.
  
 See the matching green letterings?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Alright tubes for the next week are Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Tung Sol 5998. No more lusting after Tannoys. This is real and sounds very the good.
> 
> See the matching green letterings?


 
 You have found a way to get Euforia to run on only 3 tubes??? Is the green lettering the key??


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi folks, so I'm in L.A. ready for the 2-day mega meet tomorrow. But as you know my Euforia didn't make it in time. I'm wondering if anyone may have a recommendation on which other tube amp sounds most similar to the Euforia? I was interested in testing it's performance with a couple top headphone pairings, but save for actually having it present I thought perhaps there is another comparable amp in terms of output power or at least sound reproduction - perhaps something like the original Zana Deux or Cavalli Liquid Tungsten? Of course there may be no exact equal, but maybe just a best guess contender? 
  
 PS- I'm swamped with multiple life-change projects these days so I won't be posting any detailed impressions. Not to worry though with the many hundreds of guests there's sure to be much on the impressions thread, and I'll just mention a few standouts. A lot of what I'm after there is actually DAP's and IEM's for portable use, which I've still yet to find my nexus.


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *pctazhp*
> 
> Is the green lettering the key??


 
  
 Green is the key and everywhere. Ever wonder why grass is green. Ever wonder why the song is 'Green green grass of home?'


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...in many ways, perhaps I should not have gone there, but once enlightened about certain facts, one cannot _*un*_learn them LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 H1, I've just read the impressions of attendees from the Milton's Meet that you attended. Someone mentioned about borrowing some high end headphones and listening to them on their own amp and setup.
  
 That in essence is what I enjoyed the most from attending my recent Sydney meet. The ability to listen to Focal Utopia, Elear, MrSpeaker Ether Flow C, HD800 with cardas cable, Sony MDR Z1R, Oppo PM1, Grado RS500, etc on my Euforia setup. I even managed to borrow a pair of GEC 6as7g


----------



## UntilThen

Had a blast listening to HE560 on LF339. This is a great pairing.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Let's see:
> 
> McIntosh Headphone amp MHA150: $4,500.00
> 
> ...


 

 Plus one of my favorite music:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Song-Ocarina-Jean-Philippe-Audin/dp/B00008LLO2
  
 $9,9999,999
  
 LOL


----------



## attmci

attmci said:


> Plus one of my favorite music:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Song-Ocarina-Jean-Philippe-Audin/dp/B00008LLO2
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> H1, I've just read the impressions of attendees from the Milton's Meet that you attended. Someone mentioned about borrowing some high end headphones and listening to them on their own amp and setup.
> 
> That in essence is what I enjoyed the most from attending my recent Sydney meet. The ability to listen to Focal Utopia, Elear, MrSpeaker Ether Flow C, HD800 with cardas cable, Sony MDR Z1R, Oppo PM1, Grado RS500, etc on my Euforia setup. I even managed to borrow a pair of GEC 6as7g


 
  
 Yo, UT...only wish I also had been able to try a range of HPs in Euforia - the day just came and went without me doing a fraction of what I really wanted...needed TWO days, really! Never mind, just might have been tempted to add to the extravagances lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


attmci said:


>


 
  
 Hey attmci....DAVE over Hugo 2?...that sort of temptation goes _*way*_​ beyond acceptable behaviour lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...thank goodness my wallet doesn't go that deep....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(will be more than happy with H2!!).
  
  
 And hey @DecentLevi...that's a real shame you won't be able to take Euforia along with you...perhaps to another meet of some sort! Ah well, have a great time nonetheless....and hope you receive your amp soon...


----------



## nwavesailor

untilthen said:


> Good choice but stick to the music please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Yep, 1 man and 1 guitar.................SCARY good!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Sound is great on this one


----------



## connieflyer

The CFO of the company I used to work for came over Friday and dropped off his PSB Silver speakers for me to audition on my system, great sound, I was with him when he bought them and after all these years they still sound outstanding. Ths young lady in 24 bit audio sounds very nice


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## mordy

I think that I can speak for the few lucky owners of the Euforia that it is a very good amp that it is easy to be happy with.
  
 So here comes a philosophical question:
  
 Where do we go from here?
  
 Are we looking for musical happiness or are we looking for perfection?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Are we looking for musical happiness or are we looking for perfection?


 
  
 Euforia taught me how to be contend. It made me gave up tube rolling. It taught me how to listen to music instead of listening to my gear. It taught me the meaning of life. It taught me how to live in an imperfect world. It taught me what it means to have euphoria. Basically an intense feeling of happiness and well-being. It taught me how not to lust for more audio gear. 
  
 So I gave my Figaro to my son and I no more plug my headphone jack incessantly into 2 amps, every few mins, just to hear how a song might sound with different tube amps. It made me a one tube amp man.
  
 What more do you want?
  
 Now listen to this and learn to read notes.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> I think that I can speak for the few lucky owners of the Euforia that it is a very good amp that it is easy to be happy with.
> 
> So here comes a philosophical question:
> 
> ...


 
 Me, I'm just looking for my glasses which I lose on average about 5 times a day. Happiness would be cutting that average in half. Perfection would be to be 20 again


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer  I found my glasses and was able to locate this for your morning meditation
  

  
 Girls are up early today so no morning meditation for me. Oh, that reminds me. Time for morning medication. Now if I can just remember where I keep it.


----------



## connieflyer

I am glad you found your glasses you are making progress!  If you don't find your meds soon it won;t matter so not to worry!  Thanks for the video, I have been on a self help fitness quest myself. In fact it is almost time to go downstairs and spend some time with the tredmill and work out bench.  Mind you I am not turning in it on, this new program is more mental so I sit near it and contemplate what fitness level I want to be at and how much weight I have lost. It is remarkable how well this is working. I feel so much better just knowing I have dominion over the machine!
 Quote:


pctazhp said:


> @connieflyer  I found my glasses and was able to locate this for your morning meditation
> 
> 
> 
> Girls are up early today so no morning meditation for me. Oh, that reminds me. Time for morning medication. Now if I can just remember where I keep it.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I think that I can speak for the few lucky owners of the Euforia that it is a very good amp that it is easy to be happy with.
> 
> So here comes a philosophical question:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aaahh mordy....as with most other similar questions, the two need not necessarily be mutually exclusive lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm reminded of your own words : "IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?"!! This can of course lead us ever further down that bottomless hole, but once a level of happiness is discovered to be further _enhanced_ - especially as a _whole_ as opposed to mere minute detail - then I myself am still willing to "go the extra mile", just so long as I can afford it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Does it ever end? I really don't know to be sure...but I live in hope that that day _might_ just come..._soon__!_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the comments.
  
 Now, h1, if Good is Good, isn't Better Better? Yes, but in this context, having reached a very satisfactory level of sound reproduction, will it make you happier?


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
  
 I myself have this problem of misplacing my glasses, the reason being that my eyes have changed and I only need them for driving ATM.
  
 What I did was to try to put them in the same place all the time. This does not work very well, so I keep a second pair in the car. In your case, since it happens five times a day, maybe get four extra pairs of glasses.
  
 Then you could paint the frames with glow in the dark paint. Just shut the lights, and you will find them. Don't know how this works during the day, though.
  
 Then there is this classic trick, but maybe not so fashionable:
  
  




 A lanyard so that the glasses hang around your neck when not in use.
  
 Here is a link that assures peace of mind with a 3-pack for 99c incl shipping:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-Leather-Glasses-Strap-Chain-Neck-Lanyard-70cm-for-Sports-Reading-Keeper-/291772819390?var=&hash=item43ef03e7bemyUWdMZ_p7oIQhe7ijuhixw
  
 As mentioned, I try to keep my glasses in the same place, or in the car. In practice it means that sometimes I find myself driving without my glasses which, shall we say, makes life interesting.....


----------



## connieflyer

Just starting to look for a Dac, have to decide price point to performance I want. Present setup here


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Just starting to look for a Dac, have to decide price point to performance I want. Present *setup* here


 
 That's not a "setup", it's the creation of a deranged mind. The best place to look for a new DAC is in a store or online. Let me know if you need any further advice.


----------



## pctazhp

@mordy. I think what I really need is a pair of handcuffs to permanently anchor myself to my desk chair. Maybe I can find a pair that glows in the dark


----------



## mordy

A little glow in the dark paint applied inside the frame:




  







  
 I am seeing double?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Just starting to look for a Dac, have to decide price point to performance I want. Present setup here


 
  
 Check these out. Seems promising. Either version depending on your budget. Dealer from Singapore seems very nice.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/838116/denafrips-dac-8pro2-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view#post_13313279


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks UT, just started looking these over.  They look very interesting. Notice the comparison chart the more expensive one alot of the preceived advantages only show with very superior equipment. Have a lot of reading to do. Nice catch, thanks


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
  
 Tried your present set-up with the tubes I have - sounds really great:

  

  
 The EL11s are old TFK tubes from the early 40's - I have no idea how they look inside since everything is grayed out. The EL12N tubes look old as well with brown getter flashes. I must admit that your adapters look much better.
  
 The sound is very nice with quite a bass punch. I find it very interesting that the EL12N tubes are equally good as driver or power tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Is this the one?


 
 CONGRATULATIONS @hypnos1 ON GETTING THE Chord Hugo 2!!!!!
  
 I may never have words for how BEYOND extraordinary this fine rare-earth gem sounds!!!! WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW... WOW! To tell the truth I had my doubts about your purchase, BUT that's because I was not yet aware about the difference between Chord Hugo 1 and 2. I demoed the v1 two years ago and was impressed, but not nearly as much as the v2. Fast forward to today, I thought I'd give it a whirl just for kicks when nearly passing by the Chord table at the L.A. meet. Pairing it directly with my HD-600's I literally said that that was the best I've ever heard my HD-600's sound, and could have been even above the HD-600's pairing with the Zana Deux (though by distant memory and this can change according to the DAC used with the ZD). However it is 100% the DAC of this thing that makes it special!!! It's something very advanced for our civilization on the order of alien technology, and by the words of a Chord insider: "The DAC of the Chord Hugo 2 is made of our own proprietary technology that nobody else has", then upon asking if this is R2R in thinking this must have to be R2R to sound this good, they said its' DAC is *better than R2R*, "much better" according to their words.
  
 Of several conversations I had with my good friend Jude the owner of Head-Fi he actually said he very much doubts statements like that due to the fact that it's not only the DAC chip and type that makes it good, but also how the chip is implemented. So the Chord Hugo 2 does not sound good only because of the DAC chip but also because of being well implemented as well. He was also carrying around one of these (soon to be released) babies in his back pack and had caved to let at least one other member borrow his to demo, whom of which were noticeably impressed. To be completely honest you don't necessarily even need an external amp such as the Elise or Euforia for the Hugo 2 because the DAC is that high calliber, as well as a great amping stage. Though I would venture to say H1 may be onto something if he says it pairs well with the Euforia as an external amp too.
  
 PS- I also A/B'd this with (using the same source track) their little controversial Chord Mojo, to which I concluded with 100% agreement of the staff that the Hugo 2 sounds at least 2x better, however we also did agree that the Mojo does really good for it's price-point.
  
 PS- the Hugo 2 was fed optically by an AK 380 DAP (data stream, processed & amped by the Hugo 2)


----------



## DecentLevi

OK guys here's the link to what is guaranteed to be the fastest rising thread of the next few days, where you can read about the SoCal Can Jam impressions:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/843727/canjam-socal-2017-impressions-thread


----------



## hypnos1

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> Now, h1, if Good is Good, isn't Better Better? Yes, but in this context, having reached a very satisfactory level of sound reproduction, *will it make you happier?*


 
*YOU BET*, m!!!...... 
        
              
  
 (Mind you, not sure which one is me...*​all three actually, methinks!!!*​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 But at least I now _know_​ what the extra goodies will do for Euforia...wouldn't even consider it if not lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


decentlevi said:


> CONGRATULATIONS @hypnos1 ON GETTING THE Chord Hugo 2!!!!!
> 
> I may never have words for how BEYOND extraordinary this fine rare-earth gem sounds!!!! WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW... WOW! To tell the truth I had my doubts about your purchase, BUT that's because I was not yet aware about the difference between Chord Hugo 1 and 2. I demoed the v1 two years ago and was impressed, but not nearly as much as the v2. Fast forward to today, I thought I'd give it a whirl just for kicks when nearly passing by the Chord table at the L.A. meet. Pairing it directly with my HD-600's I literally said that that was the best I've ever heard my HD-600's sound, and could have been even above the HD-600's pairing with the Zana Deux (though by distant memory and this can change according to the DAC used with the ZD). However it is 100% the DAC of this thing that makes it special!!! It's something very advanced for our civilization on the order of alien technology, and by the words of a Chord insider: "The DAC of the Chord Hugo 2 is made of our own proprietary technology that nobody else has", then upon asking if this is R2R in thinking this must have to be R2R to sound this good, they said its' DAC is *better than R2R*, "much better" according to their words.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for further confirmation, DL....very few folks have actually heard it yet, but I've a feeling this thing is gonna set a lot of folks afire LOL!!
  
 The end of May for my own is going to seem a VERY long way off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And coax-fed is undoubtedly better still!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## frederick-rea

mordy said:


> A little glow in the dark paint applied inside the frame:


 
 I solved my most irritating problem by losing my glasses 10 times a day, buying 6 of them and spreading them all over the house


----------



## frederick-rea

connieflyer said:


> Just starting to look for a Dac, have to decide price point to performance I want. Present setup here


 
 You could see LAMPIZATOR as (for me) is one of the best DACs around. They have an Euforia and they are Polish too and its boss name is Lucasz as well


----------



## pctazhp

Good morning @connieflyer. I'm sure your mind is full of LAMPIZATORs and DAVEs. But I also realize you frequently ask yourself what is responsible for my extraordinary knowledge and wisdom. Well, this is where it was all nurtured and cultivated.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 So let me clarify this - with the Hugo2 I don't need any external tube amp?


----------



## mordy

Time to celebrate for the little blue bunny in the middle (you know who you are).
  
 Here is some classical music" The Overture to William Tell" by a very talented jazz band - the Salt City Six.
  
 As I remember, the heir to a large fortune from a huge shoe company was very interested in Hi Fi, and bought first class equipment to record this band with very good results.
  
 
  
 Amazing that just six guys can make such a recording - sounds like a much bigger band. Is it possible that this is a binaural recording?


----------



## Oskari

Did I ever post this?


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BXSkigN45w[/VIDEO]

_Murheellisten laulujen maa_

Tough luck if I did.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> So let me clarify this - with the Hugo2 I don't need any external tube amp?


 
  
 Yes that's sure right. with the astonishing DAC prowess of the Hugo 2, I have a hunch that it can really take almost any decent amp to a whole other level - doing 'the impossible' as H1 had put it, and by that I think we're referring to something in the far, far left nethlands of this hobby, things such as 'intimacy', 'presence' and ultra-transparency, would start to describe what I heard anyway. I'm not sure how good its' built-in amp is alone, but paired with its' special DAC technology, the DAC+built in amp on this thing sounds fantastic enough to make me wonder if this is even better than large tube amp rigs I've heard before, which is no small thanks to it's special DAC. Though also having a line-out I would presume one could get even better sound out of the Hugo 2 with an external SS or tube amp such as Euforia.
  
 PS- I've listened to the HE-1 (unofficially called 'Orpheus 2'), DAVE and Holo Audio Spring Level 3... Though they were on drastically different rigs making a fair comparison not possible, my mind keeps going back to the Hugo 2 or to some extent the Holo v3 and DAVE.


----------



## DecentLevi

So my Euforia has been idle in the mail ever since EMS tracking says it left Poland on March 29th - 12 days and no activity since then. Has anybody encountered a similar delay? Lukasz just told me it _should _be there soon especially since it's an express shipping! But even if it's held up in 'customs', I would have no idea which one and in which country it's in, being the last activity shown at all is simply that it "departed Poland" - so I wonder how I would even presume to track where it's being held up?


----------



## Oskari

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2KrD3LiLM[/VIDEO]

_Urami Bushi_


----------



## DavidA

decentlevi said:


> Yes that's sure right. with the astonishing DAC prowess of the Hugo 2, I have a hunch that it can really take almost any decent amp to a whole other level - doing 'the impossible' as H1 had put it, and by that I think we're referring to something in the far, far left nethlands of this hobby, things such as 'intimacy', 'presence' and ultra-transparency, would start to describe what I heard anyway. I'm not sure how good its' built-in amp is alone, but paired with its' special DAC technology, the DAC+built in amp on this thing sounds fantastic enough to make me wonder if this is even better than large tube amp rigs I've heard before, which is no small thanks to it's special DAC. Though also having a line-out I would presume one could get even better sound out of the Hugo 2 with an external SS or tube amp such as Euforia.
> 
> PS- I've listened to the HE-1 (unofficially called 'Orpheus 2'), DAVE and Holo Audio Spring Level 3... Though they were on drastically different rigs making a fair comparison not possible, my mind keeps going back to the Hugo 2 or to some extent the Holo v3 and DAVE.


 
 Hi DL, did you get to try both versions?  I've spend a lot of time with the original Hugo and it was one of the few DAC / amps that can do the HD800 and HE560 justice and to me made having additional amps redundant.  Also got to hear a friends Hugo TT which is even better but its not worth the price difference from the Hugo IMO and the DAVE is just too far up there for me to even think about.  The original Hugo was really good IMO so I'm really getting interested in the Hugo2 now and with your comments it puts another positive impression on it.


----------



## DecentLevi

davida said:


> Hi DL, did you get to try both versions?  I've spend a lot of time with the original Hugo and it was one of the few DAC / amps that can do the HD800 and HE560 justice and to me made having additional amps redundant.  Also got to hear a friends Hugo TT which is even better but its not worth the price difference from the Hugo IMO and the DAVE is just too far up there for me to even think about.  The original Hugo was really good IMO so I'm really getting interested in the Hugo2 now and with your comments it puts another positive impression on it.


 
 trying not to derail this thread so I'll answer here, but probably this would go better on the Hugo 2 thread. Anyway as is the trend for exhibitors, Chord only displayed their latest models, so only the Hugo 2 was on display, along with their Mojo, and DAVE at another table. I recall trying the Hugo 1 two years ago and was gobstoppingly more impressed with the Hugo 2, and I've also read similar sentiments that basically every aspect is greatly improved on the Hugo 2 vs. 1. 
  
 Also @hypnos1 did you happen to notice the Hugo 2 only has coax and optical inputs? Therefore unless using a dedicated player transport that already has either of these outs, you'd need a DDC (Domain Digital Converter 'USB component') in order to get sound into it from your computer. For me that's probably a deal-breaker though because I already have a top-flight DDC with 4 different output types but none are supported with the Hugo 2.


----------



## tjw321

decentlevi said:


> trying not to derail this thread so I'll answer here, but probably this would go better on the Hugo 2 thread. Anyway as is the trend for exhibitors, Chord only displayed their latest models, so only the Hugo 2 was on display, along with their Mojo, and DAVE at another table. I recall trying the Hugo 1 two years ago and was gobstoppingly more impressed with the Hugo 2, and I've also read similar sentiments that basically every aspect is greatly improved on the Hugo 2 vs. 1.
> 
> Also @hypnos1 did you happen to notice the Hugo 2 only has coax and optical inputs? Therefore unless using a dedicated player transport that already has either of these outs, you'd need a DDC (Domain Digital Converter 'USB component') in order to get sound into it from your computer. For me that's probably a deal-breaker though because I already have a top-flight DDC with 4 different output types but none are supported with the Hugo 2.


 
 It says that it has USB input on the Chord site. It seems to be a micro USB port on the same side where there is a separate micro USB for power.


----------



## Oskari

decentlevi said:


> DDC (Domain Digital Converter 'USB component')




You made that up, didn't you?


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi.
  
 As @tjw321 said, the Hugo 2 does indeed also have an HDUSB in (plus extended range Bluetooth) and can handle DSD up to 512 (Octa DSD)....can't wait lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## DecentLevi

decentlevi said:


> DDC (Domain Digital Converter 'USB component')


 
  
 Quote:


oskari said:


> You made that up, didn't you?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=ddc
  
 Indeed DDC is the correct name for these USB components, AKA "*USB interface*". I had however mistook it for Domain Digital Converter instead of *Digital to Digital Converter* and called it a USB component instead of interface. The terminology for these relatively new devices are somewhat perplexing to say the least, but at least some universal terms are surfacing for these, LOL.

 I have the Singxer SU-1 DDC shown above. It was recommended to improve the sound being fed to the Holo Audio Spring DAC, to which I had also personally confirmed from testing. I got it in anticipation for that DAC, but in the meantime it's doing wonders for both of my current DAC's ('Mimby' and Gustard X12, which it's able to connect to both simultaneously via AES/EBU which is a 3-pin XLR cable, and RCA coax to the other DAC. On both DAC's (as well as the Holo which I previously tested it with / without), I'm noticing an unmistakable improvement in all aspects of fidelity - everything from dynamics to layering, imaging, and especially overall realism. The drums hit harder, things sound more real, instruments are placed better and I turn my head more often to check if what I heard was real-life or not. I am using this in conjuction with the Wyrd from Schiit Audio (PC --> Wyrd --> SU-1 --> DAC). I have tested each the Wyrd and SU-1 DDC's alone and together and have concluded after extensive testing that without any doubt whatsoever the pairing of these two DDC's together are legendary and give unmistakeable improvements to the sound, with absolutely nothing over or under-done. Yup, this is the DDC setup I'm standing by and I've read from multiple members it gives even better performance to a DAC when used with the I2S connection, which is actually via HDMI cable. 
  
 In regards to the Hugo 2, while that's great it does accept USB input via micro-USB cable, I personally would need to do a little more research to see whether a DDC "USB interface" would further benefit this connection or not, because the vast majority of the time, everybody who has tried a DDC into any DAC reports further improvements... and while I understand the basic functions of taking a USB binary stream and converting it into other digital connection options I'm no expert on how these work; however I do also know it also has something to do with digital "re-clocking", and has other ways of "cleaning up" the signal from a USB, which is necessary because the USB board of the majority of computers are not implemented in a way this is able to give _optimal _performance if connected directly to an audiophile rig.
  
 PS- the Singxer SU-1 outputs are not compatible with the Hugo 2 AFAIK, however the budget-friendly Wyrd would work.


----------



## connieflyer

Decided it was time to pick up a new dac, and with a tip from @UntilThen I decided on  Good reviews and customer service is quite good as well.  They also had them in stock and sending out via DHL, should be here  in  about a week. 
 l


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> In regards to the Hugo 2, while that's great it does accept USB input via micro-USB cable, I personally would need to do a little more research to see whether a DDC "USB interface" would further benefit this connection or not, because the vast majority of the time, everybody who has tried a DDC into any DAC reports further improvements... and while I understand the basic functions of taking a USB binary stream and converting it into other digital connection options I'm no expert on how these work; however I do also know it also has something to do with digital "re-clocking", and has other ways of "cleaning up" the signal from a USB, *which is necessary because the USB board of the majority of computers are not implemented in a way this is able to give optimal performance if connected directly to an audiophile rig.*


 
 What is the basis of your claim that "cleaning up" is necessary because USB boards of majority of computers are not implimented to give optimal performance? Do you have technical information to support this claim? I feed my run-of-the-mill Dell desktop PC directly to my Bimby with wonderful results.
  
 BTW, Schiit markets Wyrd to clean up "strange" noises and prevent "drop out". They expressly disavow any claim of sonic improvement:
  
_"Yes. Some listeners say Wyrd improves the sound of their system. We won't make any such claim to sonic nirvana—sorry, creating expectation bias and neuro-lingustic programming ain't something that we do. Sonic improvements are for you to decide. The rest of it—color printing and data stability—that’s like saying charging your iPhone off Wyrd makes the battery last longer. Have fun with that one"_


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Decided it was time to pick up a new dac, and with a tip from @UntilThen I decided on an r2r from Denafrips. Good reviews and customer service is quite good as well.  They also had them in stock and sending out via DHL, should be here  in  about a week.
> 
> http://www.denafrips.com/ares.html


 

 Congratulations))  Looks very interesting. Will be looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## connieflyer

So far my impression is that somehow I missed breakfast this morning, but all is not lost, lunch time is coming fast!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> So far my impression is that somehow I missed breakfast this morning, but all is not lost, lunch time is coming fast!


 

 Just to be clear, I'm waiting to hear about your new DAC. Not your morning feeding schedule


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Decided it was time to pick up a new dac, and with a tip from @UntilThen I decided on an r2r from Denafrips. Good reviews and customer service is quite good as well.  They also had them in stock and sending out via DHL, should be here  in  about a week.
> 
> http://www.denafrips.com/ares.html


 
  
 Would love to hear this dac with Euforia. Glad you'll be the first amongst us to sample it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Would love to hear this dac with Euforia. Glad you'll be the first amongst us to sample it.


 

 With all those capacitors I'm sure it has the capacity to sound quite wonderful. Just my helpful thought as I wait to hear about @connieflyer's lunch today.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Would love to hear this dac with Euforia. Glad you'll be the first amongst us to sample it.
> ...


 
  
 I'm thinking about this lovely looking donut from krispy kreme.


----------



## connieflyer

Lunch is soon, would invite you,but don't want to drive to airport, sorry


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Lunch is soon, would invite you,but don't want to drive to airport, sorry


 

 I'm still working on breakfast. Krispy Kreem??? Yum


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> decentlevi said:
> 
> 
> > In regards to the Hugo 2, while that's great it does accept USB input via micro-USB cable, I personally would need to do a little more research to see whether a DDC "USB interface" would further benefit this connection or not, because the vast majority of the time, everybody who has tried a DDC into any DAC reports further improvements... and while I understand the basic functions of taking a USB binary stream and converting it into other digital connection options I'm no expert on how these work; however I do also know it also has something to do with digital "re-clocking", and has other ways of "cleaning up" the signal from a USB, *which is necessary because the USB board of the majority of computers are not implemented in a way this is able to give optimal performance if connected directly to an audiophile rig.*
> ...


 
  
 Good one Pct. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 First tube rings, then USB boards needs cleaning up. If you're that 'audiophiled' then get yourself a dedicated source instead of a PC. As for me, my NASA computer with the state of the art USB board is good enough.
  
 I love Schitt statement - they want to dispel any expectation bias.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Good one Pct. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> First tube rings, then USB boards needs cleaning up. If you're that 'audiophiled' then get yourself a dedicated source instead of a PC. As for me, my NASA computer with the state of the art USB board is good enough.
> 
> I love Schitt statement - they want to dispel any expectation bias.



You mean something along these lines? Right then, no need for ferrite chokes!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> You mean something along these lines? Right then, no need for ferrite chokes!


 

 I have tried many times to convince people that the Sedona crystals I have suspended above my head while I'm listening solve numerous problems. I just don't get why no one else has been willing to try.
  
 As for the chokes I would be concerned they would compress the sound, just as my thoughts become blurred when someone tries to choke me - sadly, a frequent occurrence.


----------



## UntilThen

> You mean something along these lines? Right then, no need for ferrite chokes!


 
  
 For ferrite chokes to be effective you need to use a lot of them - like this string of beads.


----------



## UntilThen

This is my NASA Quantum computer. It's my path to super head-fi.
  

  
 It is modelled after this.


----------



## UntilThen

See I kid you not. This is 'my' quantum computer.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> See I kid you not. This is 'my' quantum computer.


 

 Oh, thanks a lot!!!! Now I have computer envy


----------



## connieflyer

Ahhh,nzxt great cases, I know as I have one also. Just got shipping notice from DHL dac should be here on the 17th. Very quick indeed.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Oh, thanks a lot!!!! Now I have computer envy


 
  
 Save your envy. I'm not done yet. It only has 256gb of SSD.
  
 See the 2 empty slots for 2 more SSD card expansion? Well how about 2 more of Samsung 4TB SSD but it's super expensive !!! $1499 each.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Ahhh,nzxt great cases, I know as I have one also. Just got shipping notice from DHL dac should be here on the 17th. Very quick indeed.


 
  
 17th of April ? !!!!   I'm coming to Michigan.


----------



## connieflyer

Great news I'll run right out to Krispy Kreme and stock up on those donuts then maybe Phil will be tempted to come as well


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Great news I'll run right out to Krispy Kreme and stock up on those donuts then maybe Phil will be tempted to come as well


 
 I'll bring the Borsch


----------



## mordy

Hi angpsi,
  
 In the 60's there were sub miniature vacuum tubes developed for missiles that withstand 500G. Don't know if it is true, but the Russians are said to have stayed with vacuum tubes instead of transistors for a long time because the vacuum tubes are much more resistant to radiation.
  
 The benefit to us is the huge supply of Russian vacuum tubes available today.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,
  
 I have some inside information. Mrs Xu Ling is working in the Samsung OEM Shenzen factory - maybe she can get you a deal on those Samsung 4TB SSDs.. Apparently, the adapter business is a side line.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Great news I'll run right out to Krispy Kreme and stock up on those donuts then maybe Phil will be tempted to come as well


 
  
 Hey guys...all this talk of delicious donuts is killing me - have never had anything to match since my time based in California lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(same goes for See's Candies - as they were 35 years ago, anyway!!).
  
 But those DACs UT mentioned sure do look very interesting, and reasonably priced. Look forward to your impressions...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(you do realise you'll now have to make a trip out to UK so we can compare DACs lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).....CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

Now that's a firm commitment for me to visit the UK I may just have to find a passport and take you up on that idea. Always wanted to go over there and see where my people came from. Would give me a chance to visit Scotland at the same time maybe even Wales!


----------



## UntilThen

Guys, buy what you want or desire (Hugo, Pluto, Donuts, etc) NOW because I'm worried that time is running out soon......as I watch the USS Carl Vinson stream towards the Korean waters. I'm just getting as much listening hours as I can with my Euforia before star wars begins.
  
 Seriously, I would love to be on board this .... whatever you call it.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Now that's a firm commitment for me to visit the UK I may just have to find a passport and take you up on that idea. Always wanted to go over there and see where my people came from. Would give me a chance to visit Scotland at the same time maybe even Wales!




It's quite a small place by US standards. The island of Great Britain is about the size of Kansas. Visiting different parts of it should be quite feasible.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
  
 Here are memories from See's Candies:


----------



## UntilThen

Telefunken EL12 and Rft El12n are he-man tubes. Be prepared to be shaken and not stirred. These are my running tubes for this week. HD650 sounds so good with Euforia and these el caminos.
  

  
 because nothing else matters


----------



## UntilThen

It's the Easter long weekend. So it's some vinyl loving time with my Euforia. Don't really need a DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This is as organic, analogue and euphonic as you can get. Karajan would have been impressed. Heck even Beethoven would have been impressed.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> However, my own realisation is based upon findings that can bring tangible improvements to a product - ie. Euforia - that truly capitalise on its full *potential*...and in ways I didn't fully appreciate before :
> 
> 1. The importance of original mains power supply is now clearly much greater than I had always believed, and confirmed by the obvious problems experienced by many in tubeamp land especially, and that can be traced right back to this source. Electricity, of course, is not only what powers our components...it is what carries our sound signal throughout the chain. And whatever unwanted contamination there is from original source is going to be amplified along with the sounds we _*do*_ want.  And when you trace our immediate, _local_ source way back to _*its*_ origin (plus the massive associated network), it's no surprise that contamination can become a massive source of interference for sensitive amplification equipment such as ours.
> Hence I believe this to be an area greatly underestimated by many, and given far less attention than it deserves lol!
> ...


 
  
 H1, what you plan to do with your power source is nothing compared to Morita. Watch this.


----------



## connieflyer

I am a big fan of satellite radio, so now that I have my new antennae installed, signal is crystal clear!


----------



## Spork67

untilthen said:


> hypnos1 said:
> 
> 
> > However, my own realisation is based upon findings that can bring tangible improvements to a product - ie. Euforia - that truly capitalise on its full *potential*...and in ways I didn't fully appreciate before :
> ...




  
 Ummm - wouldn't it be even better (and possibly cheaper) to just have your own solar system and batteries to get "pure power" to the HiFi?
 As for the guy who hasn't bought any new clothes for 15 years - isn't that normal after you reach a certain age, and are happily married???


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> It's quite a small place by US standards. The island of Great Britain is about the size of Kansas. *Visiting different parts of it should be quite feasible.*


 
  
 Hi O....that's what I keep trying to convince myself of...but with a totally inadequate road system and pathetic rail system in the now most densely populated country in Europe (and still growing!!), getting about can be an absolute nightmare lol!!!...(but don't let that put you off @connieflyer!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  


mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Here are memories from See's Candies:




  
 More torture, mordy...but nice one lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> H1, what you plan to do with your power source is nothing compared to Morita. Watch this.




  
 Ah so, UT...nice to know I wasn't talking out of my hat lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And I love his reference to it as "blood"..._*too right!!*_
  
 And also glad that my efforts are indeed as nothing to this guy's unbelievable exertions...WOW!!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but obviously a _*true*_ enthusiast! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(don't you wish you had that TT...and the...and the...etc. etc.??!!).


----------



## connieflyer

Dac is in Cincinnati already, this company is fast on shipping, no messing around here


----------



## mordy

Came across a 1,000.000.00 audio system. At the 20 min mark there are several musical demonstrations. The first one appeals to me because it is a classic jazz piece. They use tape decks and I could not find any tube equipment. Maybe a competitor to the Hugo2.....


----------



## connieflyer

Well here's one for the boss  @hypnos1 Puccini what else!


----------



## connieflyer

@hypnos1 check out her hands, very deft


----------



## DecentLevi

OK @pctazhp, @UntilThen and @angpsi, I have spent some time doing my homework, as well as a fresh A/B comparison on using DDCs "USB components" vs. directly to an ordinary USB output and have some very interesting and solid finds. I'm hoping to at least shed light on something that is actually quite a satisfying addition to this hobby. However save for getting too far off topic from the Euforia, I have posted here if you would please visit this thread for the reply:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac/1185#post_13425903
 Also @hypnos1 and @HOWIE13 you may be interested in the above too


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> OK @pctazhp, @UntilThen and @angpsi, I have spent some time doing my homework, as well as a fresh A/B comparison on using DDCs "USB components" vs. directly to an ordinary USB output and have some very interesting and solid finds. I'm hoping to at least shed light on something that is actually quite a satisfying addition to this hobby. However save for getting too far off topic from the Euforia, I have posted here if you would please visit this thread for the reply:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac/1185#post_13425903
> Also @hypnos1 and @HOWIE13 you may be interested in the above too


 
  
 DL, let me ask you this question. Did you have a Holo Spring? If not, why are you quoting them? And what is the purpose of quoting us on that thread? So you can get backing for your USB cleansing?
  
 If Singxer SU-1 works well in Holo Spring then good for the owners. However what works in Holo Spring is not universal for all of head-fi. Check out this opinion on the Denafrips Ares and Singxer SU-1. This is from someone who tested the Ares with Maneplanar speakers.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833690/denafrips-ares-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view/495#post_13348159


----------



## DecentLevi

I was quoting you on a thread that is somewhat more relevant to keep this one on track, one that deals with that DDC a lot - not specifically aimed at either the Singxer SU-1 or the Wyrd, just used them as examples of how USB components can improve the sound, which they have been doing with all three DACs I've tried them with although not owning a Holo Spring. Indeed that's good that some DACs have well enough implemented inputs that they don't benefit from a DDC, however many DACs, if not even the majority do benefit from these, which generally enhance the inner resolution of the recording, realism, headroom and overall resolution by way of reducing USB-jitter / noise and regenerating power from a shared USB bus - something I have confirmed after extensive testing over 2 years. It's one of those things where you'd have to try it before making claims about it, which is a doctrine I have learned how to follow.
  
 It seems strange USB signal enhancement has not been brought up on any of the F-A threads yet, but for me anyway, it has been my most valuable upgrade to date which is a centerpiece for all future rigs... not to mention the sonic benefit of DDCs in general are agreed upon by leading vendors and countless Head-Fi'ers... Now back to the Euforia, and I think you'd get even more knowledgeable replies on the thread linked above.


----------



## tjw321

decentlevi said:


> ...however many DACs, if not even the majority do benefit from these, ...


 
 The degree of improvement is almost certainly more correlated with the source than the DAC. A decent USB source won't need one of these "DDC"s no matter which DAC you are using.


----------



## UntilThen

decentlevi said:


> *I was quoting you on a thread that is somewhat more relevant to keep this one on track*, one that deals with that DDC a lot - not specifically aimed at either the Singxer SU-1 or the Wyrd, just used them as examples of how USB components can improve the sound, which they have been doing with all three DACs I've tried them with although not owning a Holo Spring. Indeed that's good that some DACs have well enough implemented inputs that they don't benefit from a DDC, however many DACs, if not even the majority do benefit from these, which generally enhance the inner resolution of the recording, realism, headroom and overall resolution by way of reducing USB-jitter / noise and regenerating power from a shared USB bus - something I have confirmed after extensive testing over 2 years. It's one of those things where you'd have to try it before making claims about it, which is a doctrine I have learned how to follow.
> 
> *It seems strange USB signal enhancement has not been brought up on any of the F-A threads yet,* but for me anyway, it has been my most valuable upgrade to date which is a centerpiece for all future rigs... not to mention the sonic benefit of DDCs in general are agreed upon by leading vendors and countless Head-Fi'ers... Now back to the Euforia, and I think you'd get even more knowledgeable replies on the thread linked above.


 
  
 How rude. You did not have our permissions to quote Pct and I on that thread. Of course it seems strange to you that USB signal enhancement has not been brought up on any F-A threads yet. That was the case when you discovered tube rings magic. As TJ pointed out, a good source doesn't need these addons which is what I told you in the first reply. Get a good turntable or a good dedicated source and you would even seem more strange that it has never been brought up in any FA threads.
  
 You are like this drummer.


----------



## UntilThen

Or this drummer....
  
 Happy holidays all.


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


>


 

 In my post here you quoted on the Holo Spring's thread, I asked you if you had any technical data to support your claim that "cleaning up" is necessary because USB boards of majority of computers are not implemented to give optimal performance? You provided no such data (or any support at all to this claim) in your Holo Springs post.
  
You have a long history of extreme OTT posting. The most recent example is your statement in the Holo Spring post:
  

_Resolution / refinement: The overall package with t*hese two DDCs made such an extraordinary difference that without I hardly even recognized a song which I had just heard moments before with, of which I previously enjoyed for its' lifelike and pleasing sound, yet without sounded very much 'meh'*_
  
 Because of your history, I long ago stopped lending any credence to your sighted A-B "tests". Most of us, including me, readily share our experiences comparing different components or tubes. But most of us are also usually judicious in our choice of words and don't repeatedly refer to our comparisons as "tests", attempting to lend them some implication of scientific validity.
  
 In your Holo Spring post you said:
  
_Schiit Audio downlplays the effect of their Wyrd for a reason: they don't want to be held accountable in the *off-chance that somebody buys one and doesn't notice a difference*. They don't want to claim that it does wonders, save for the person using it on their cheap headphones that aren't capable of letting the hear the difference._
  
Since you presume to know the thinking of Schiit Audio, I suggest you may want to confirm that with Jason or Mike on one of the Schiit threads.
  
 I want to be clear. I'm not claiming that DCCs can never make a difference. I've never used one - never felt the need. And even if I had, I would not try to universalize my experience in some effort to make a groundbreaking contribution to the hobby.
  
 There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I don't want to be the cause of the moderator's Easter weekend being disturbed.


----------



## connieflyer

Remembering on this special day a person that is well known and highly respected.  Is it a holiday? No I just felt like honoring him, his words should lead us all to some truth.
  
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
_Thomas Jefferson_​


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. In honor of the pending arrival of your DAC:


----------



## connieflyer

Does this mean you are coming for a visit?  Here is one for you


----------



## angpsi

decentlevi said:


> OK @pctazhp, @UntilThen and @angpsi, I have spent some time doing my homework, as well as a fresh A/B comparison on using DDCs "USB components" vs. directly to an ordinary USB output and have some very interesting and solid finds. I'm hoping to at least shed light on something that is actually quite a satisfying addition to this hobby. However save for getting too far off topic from the Euforia, I have posted here if you would please visit this thread for the reply:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac/1185#post_13425903
> Also @hypnos1 and @HOWIE13 you may be interested in the above too


 
 Hi guys,
  
 In a world that seems to be ready to pull the trigger I can't bring myself to take offense by @DecentLevi's mention of me in his post; I just thought he was being DL, eager as always to share his insights with the world in good faith. As far as I'm concerned, I'd try different dacs before usb conditioners anytime; different design philosophies and the reproduction chain itself are complicated enough as it is!
  
 On a side note, I just found a perfect way to form an opinion about the magic of the Stax SR007... (oh wait, I'm listening through my EarPods!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy Easter everyone!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Does this mean you are coming for a visit?  Here is one for you





 No. Just means the girls are still sleeping and I'm bored this morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love Suzy)))


----------



## connieflyer

Funny I do too!  Boguss I mean! Have a lot of her music on amazon playlists


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> You are like this drummer.




*HOLY MOTHER OF ZEUS!!!!!*  I just watched this video. Everything I have ever seen on HeadFi or YouTube to this point pales to such a degree in comparison, that all that has come before now seems as if it never existed. I don't think I will ever stop laughing. Desperately gasping for air.


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you DL or I'm sorry PCT for that moving and thrilling review probably one of the most exciting reviews I have ever seen in my entire life it's a wonder that my life has not been complete until now thank you from the bottom of my heart for such a fantastic summarization of all that you have seen


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Thank you DL or I'm sorry PCT for that moving and thrilling review probably one of the most exciting reviews I have ever seen in my entire life it's a wonder that my life has not been complete until now thank you from the bottom of my heart for such a fantastic summarization of all that you have seen


 

 Your sincere and heart-felt praise has made my Easter weekend. However, I realize that I do owe you an apology. I should have noted that your post of Flying Saucers still reigns supreme. By way of penitence, I will re-post it here and now.


----------



## DecentLevi

tjw321 said:


> The degree of improvement is almost certainly more correlated with the source than the DAC. A decent USB source won't need one of these "DDC"s no matter which DAC you are using.


 
 OK I can go with that, so if the source is more important than you should get a good signal into the DAC, from something like a music server. But what if your source is a standard PC and especially with a DAC that has a sub-par USB section, that's where the DDC or USB component comes in.
  
@UntilThen per your post above, I can't figure out how it could have been seen as rude when I was just quoting you on what I saw as a more relevant thread. I enjoyed the sentiment of your video "My Way", and admired that drummer. As somewhat of a nonconformist I like doing things my own way, but I certainly don't think this is one of those instances, where I was essentially just trying to share something that has brought wide acclaim from others, that I genuinely think would be beneficial for (some of) your systems.
  


pctazhp said:


> In my post here you quoted on the Holo Spring's thread, I asked you if you had any technical data to support your claim that "cleaning up" is necessary because USB boards of majority of computers are not implemented to give optimal performance? You provided no such data (or any support at all to this claim) in your Holo Springs post.
> 
> You have a long history of extreme OTT posting. The most recent example is your statement in the Holo Spring post:
> 
> ...


 
  
 PCT I had mentioned that part of the reason DDCs help to improve the sound is because the power bus of the USB ports on most PCs are shared, which is part of the reason that power regeneration helps to give a blacker background and more inner details. Also it has something to do with fixing jitter / packet errors and reclocking (the latter I hadn't mentioned), but again I'll say that I'm not the expert on how this works and was asking someone with greater knowledge to explain it better... which somehow didn't happen yet can be found. 
  
 On the perceived OTT posting I was actually just speaking directly from experience, and the majority of my post was based more on science and results that were verified from repeatable results. I have thought that a little OTT is nice to add some interest and feeling to something as long as it's also in conjunction with factual points, but I now wonder if even some OTT would cause a whole post to be taken out of context.
  
 Yes actually I had a conversation with some people at Schiit Audio when ordering the Wyrd and they downplayed the difference it makes generally saying that they don't claim it makes a huge difference but I'm welcome to try it myself, of which I did and had noticed a distinctive and repeatable difference on all three DACs I've tried it with. I also know Jason Stoddard from the few times I've personally met him, as an aside.
  
 OK I'll give you that I universalized my experience, because it has universally made an improvement to all setups I've tried it with, and I've seen many professional rigs even worth many thousands of dollars using such DDCs in the chain, though I didn't seem to make a groundbreaking contribution, just bringing to light something that I thought this community may not be aware of. Though I would see merit to the point of music servers and vinyl not benefiting from one.
  
 Well that's as far as I'm going with this topic here, but I'd just like to leave this topic with that life is still full of great mysteries, things that you may never know of until you see it directly.
  
  
 PS, it's too bad my Euforia is lost in the mail somewhere or I'd have something even greater to post about here - hope I get it before leaving for an extended vacation!
 PPS, I do have fairly refined and detailed sound with my Senn. HD-600's with upgraded cable which to me do at least half of the Focal Utopias, and about as good as the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 I recently tried


----------



## pctazhp

decentlevi said:


> Well that's as far as I'm going with this topic here, but I'd just like to leave this topic with that life is still full of great mysteries, things that you may never know of until you see it directly.


 
  
 I rely almost entirely on my senses to determine what brings me pleasure. But I am not foolish to think that my senses alone establish fact. That is to ignore the vast amount of scientific literature that demonstrates how our perception is the product of our senses AND how our brains process neural information from our senses, and frequently plays tricks on us. Almost every claim made on HeadFi is not supported by anything close to scientific verification. There was little scientific about your post other than the use of scientific terms that you may or may not understand. It was pure speculation and your own personal experiences.  For example, you mention jitter. But you provide no information on how much jitter is involved in the typical digital stream from a computer's USB bus nor what the human threshold of hearing for jitter is.
  
 But as far as that goes there would, in my opinion, be nothing wrong. It is when you make universal, dogmatic statements without any substantiation, other than dropping names and talking about the meets you have helped organized, that I start to take exception.
  
 Yes. Life is full of mysteries. They are not solved by relying on our senses. They are solved by proper application of the scientific method, something that is usually absent when claims are made here on HeadFi.
  
 I don't care if the entire world decides to listen to DDCs. That's a personal choice. I do care if junk science, superstition or mysticism is peddled as snake oil disguised as "scientific".


----------



## tjw321

decentlevi said:


> OK I can go with that, so if the source is more important than you should get a good signal into the DAC, from something like a music server. But what if your source is a standard PC and especially with a DAC that has a sub-par USB section, that's where the DDC or USB component comes in.
> 
> ...


 
 I'd rather put the money that "DDC" cost toward getting a better quality source. Why cheap out at the beginning of your audio chain and then spend that sort of money trying to fix it up? Or maybe just use the optical port instead of USB?
 BTW, AFAICT the Hugo 2 and the Singxer seem to have at least two compatible interfaces. As well as USB they both seem to support coax.


----------



## connieflyer

A song for your quiet Sunday old folks will remember the violin in the middle is great


----------



## connieflyer

A little more ...once again the violin playing against the piano


----------



## connieflyer

Okay time to wake you up, time for one more coffee and clean up and go to see Sue


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Okay time to wake you up, time for one more coffee and clean up and go to see Sue


 
 Happy Easter CF )))


----------



## connieflyer

Back at you @pctazp


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O....that's what I keep trying to convince myself of...but with a totally inadequate road system and pathetic rail system in the now most densely populated country in Europe (and still growing!!), getting about can be an absolute nightmare lol!!!...(but don't let that put you off @connieflyer!! :wink_face: )...




There are two passenger trains a day serving Birmingham, Alabama, one in each direction. Just saying. (What about the other Birmingham?)

P.S. Great drumming, UT.

P.P.S. Please no more flying saucers. (You know who you are.)

3 *


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hello guys,
 I currently have a G1217 Ember, which I have enjoyed for 2 years and I plan to keep in my office. In principle there is nothing wrong with my amp, and I am happy with it. But I am thinking to go all tubes at home too. I was considering to give Elise a try. But when I entered FA's webpage I did notice the new Euphoria. 
  
 But I am now confused and I have no clue of which of the two amps _should_ I order (assuming that I can gather the funds). I have noticed many old Ember owners in this thread too. I started reading from the beginning and gave up after 14 pages, this thread is humongous after only a few months! Has anyone actually listened to the "production" version of Euphoria yet? Any thoughts to share? Guilt levels  ?


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome Tunkejazz, as a former Ember owner I can tell you without hesitation that either Elise or euphoria will be a very substantial increase in your musical enjoyment. I had the Elise for about a year and for the last month-and-a-half I have had theEuforia and I believe that this new amplifier is worth the increase in price. It's a substantial increase over the price of the Ember but you're also getting an substantial increase in performance and the ability to roll many different tubes if that's what you decide you want to do. If there is anything in particular you would like to know there's probably about 8 of the Euforia amps out there and the one that has the most experience with the Euforia is called @Hypnos1, he is more or less the father of the Elise and for all practical purposes the Euforia amp any of us will be glad to help you wherever we can.


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer

Here is one for @pctazhp just what he likes!


----------



## myphone

Euforia #11 (Order# 106). Have tried several different tube and phone combos (Sylvania 6SN7GT Chrome top, 5692, TS 5998, TS 7236, Bendix 6080wb, HD 800, HD 650, and T1).
  
 Each phone seems prefer different tube combo. Except Sylvania 6SN7GT and Bendix 6080wb combo, which matches well with all three phones.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Euforia #11 (Order# 106). Have tried several different tube and phone combos (Sylvania 6SN7GT Chrome top, 5692, TS 5998, TS 7236, Bendix 6080wb, HD 800, HD 650, and T1).
> 
> Each phone seems prefer different tube combo. Except Sylvania 6SN7GT and Bendix 6080wb combo, which matches well with all three phones.


 
  
 Congrats myphone on your Euforia. I'm sure it will sound good with all those headphones, 2 of which I own myself and I did spend considerable many tracks with HD800 recently.
  
 Those drivers and power tubes are some of the best that you can squeeze out of Euforia. Sylvania 6sn7gt or even the cheaper gtb has a clear sweet tone that is full of details and clarity. This long weekend, I've been using Sylvania 6sn7gtb with TS 5998, Cetron 7236 and Bendix 6080wb. Takes Euforia to another level.


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> Welcome Tunkejazz, as a former Ember owner I can tell you without hesitation that either Elise or euphoria will be a very substantial increase in your musical enjoyment. I had the Elise for about a year and for the last month-and-a-half I have had theEuforia and I believe that this new amplifier is worth the increase in price. It's a substantial increase over the price of the Ember but you're also getting an substantial increase in performance and the ability to roll many different tubes if that's what you decide you want to do. If there is anything in particular you would like to know there's probably about 8 of the Euforia amps out there and the one that has the most experience with the Euforia is called @Hypnos1, he is more or less the father of the Elise and for all practical purposes the Euforia amp any of us will be glad to help you wherever we can.



Thanks!
If I may ask one question, my main concern with the Euphoria road is that I am overly sensitive to "brightness". I also like to have amps that do not sound thin. Of course I have not heard any of the two amps! Did you get the impression that Euphoria had a stronger presence in the treeble than Elise? I think when I skimmed this thread I read a brief comment about this, that is why I am asking.


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks for the music @connieflyer. Love Sara Evans. Let me be the first to wish you a happy Easter - for next year


----------



## connieflyer

PCT you have amazed us again by being the first one to wish me a happy Easter for next year you are in fact the very first one and I may add the only one so far what a guy just goes to show Sara Evans will stir you on to Greater Heights


----------



## Tunkejazz

Bahh, life is too short to keep umming and ahhing about this. Just placed the order...EUPHORIA!
 And here is "the best part"...the wife does not know anything yet!!
  
 Let's see whether I am still alive to receive the package :-D
  
 EDIT: Feels like this right now


----------



## UntilThen

tunkejazz said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome Tunkejazz, as a former Ember owner I can tell you without hesitation that either Elise or euphoria will be a very substantial increase in your musical enjoyment. I had the Elise for about a year and for the last month-and-a-half I have had theEuforia and I believe that this new amplifier is worth the increase in price. It's a substantial increase over the price of the Ember but you're also getting an substantial increase in performance and the ability to roll many different tubes if that's what you decide you want to do. If there is anything in particular you would like to know there's probably about 8 of the Euforia amps out there and the one that has the most experience with the Euforia is called @Hypnos1, he is more or less the father of the Elise and for all practical purposes the Euforia amp any of us will be glad to help you wherever we can.
> ...


 
  
 Congrats Tunkejazz. You'll love Euforia. You'll even love Elise if you had chosen that amp. Euforia is clear and details galore but never harsh or overly bright. You'll love the warm and wetness that only good tube amps can produce. Again, warm and brightness can be tune to a degree with tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

> Originally Posted by *Tunkejazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> the wife does not know anything yet!!


 
  
 What could POSSIBLY go wrong????


----------



## UntilThen

nwavesailor said:


> > Originally Posted by *Tunkejazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > the wife does not know anything yet!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 She would want his Euforia.


----------



## nwavesailor

untilthen said:


> She would want his Euforia.


 
 His bride can use his 'old' Ember!
  
 Is there a family discount if he orders a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 of Euforia's?


----------



## Spork67

nwavesailor said:


> > Originally Posted by *Tunkejazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > the wife does not know anything yet!!
> 
> ...


 
 It is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission.


----------



## Tunkejazz

nwavesailor said:


> What could POSSIBLY go wrong????


 
 xDDDDDDDD. I told her this morning...she was surprisingly positive.
 That gave her proper ammunition to propose a "bag change". How expensive can a piece of leather be??


----------



## connieflyer

If you have to ask the price of that bag you don't want to know the actual prices going to cost you. I hope you chose wisely.


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> If you have to ask the price of that bag you don't want to know the actual prices going to cost you. I hope you chose wisely.


 
 errr...shalI I  assume that the price can be as high as the price of Euforia?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> PCT you have amazed us again by being the first one to wish me a happy Easter for next year you are in fact the very first one and I may add the only one so far what a guy just goes to show Sara Evans will stir you on to Greater Heights


 

 Among many things, Easter is a sign of Spring. Spring is a time of renewal. Renewal rhymes with Yule. So I was also wishing you an early Merry Christmas.
  
 And Summer follows Spring. You know, CF, I just want to say I like you:
  
  

  
 What more can I say on the Euforia thread while I'm still waiting for mine? I know. *NOTHING*


----------



## Tunkejazz

By the way, my delivery is expected mid-May. Not bad at all!


----------



## Oskari

tunkejazz said:


> errr...shalI I  assume that the price can be as high as the price of Euforia?




http://www.harrods.com/product/dionysus-croc-shoulder-bag/gucci/000000000005269625?cat1=new-accessories&cat2=new-accessories-women-handbags

Only £19,790.00. :eek:


----------



## Tunkejazz

oskari said:


> http://www.harrods.com/product/dionysus-croc-shoulder-bag/gucci/000000000005269625?cat1=new-accessories&cat2=new-accessories-women-handbags
> 
> Only £19,790.00.


 
 Jesssss! I am an ignorant...clearly.


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> Euforia #11 (Order# 106). Have tried several different tube and phone combos (Sylvania 6SN7GT Chrome top, 5692, TS 5998, TS 7236, Bendix 6080wb, HD 800, HD 650, and T1).
> 
> Each phone seems prefer different tube combo. Except Sylvania 6SN7GT and Bendix 6080wb combo, which matches well with all three phones.


 
  
 Nice to hear your feedback, myphone...keep it coming! And perhaps a bit more detail on just how they sound to you?!...folks love to know lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...
  


tunkejazz said:


> Thanks!
> If I may ask one question, my main concern with the Euphoria road is that I am overly sensitive to "brightness". I also like to have amps that do not sound thin. Of course I have not heard any of the two amps! Did you get the impression that Euphoria had a stronger presence in the treeble than Elise? I think when I skimmed this thread I read a brief comment about this, that is why I am asking.


 
  
 Hi Tunkejazz...glad to have you on board - good choice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 UT has already answered re. 'brightness', but I myself have never found Euforia to be excessive at the top end - on the contrary, this amp has an even better FR balance and control than Elise...which is saying something lol!! If you care to go back over my posts, hopefully you should get a fairly good insight into just what it is capable of delivering...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 ps. The last thing this amp is, is "thin"!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...so be prepared!...CJ
  


tunkejazz said:


> errr...shalI I  assume that the price can be as high as the price of Euforia?


 
  
@Oskari has answered far better than I was going to lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...


----------



## mordy

Hi Tunkejazz,
  
 Välmommen! Euforia låter verkligen mycket bra.
  
 You are truly going to enjoy it and it is worth waiting for.
  
 What kind of jazz are you listening to?


----------



## connieflyer

No jazz oldies


----------



## connieflyer

Experience with new dac is on going, not going well


----------



## connieflyer

Just wanted to get posts to 2222 so I can relax in the splendor of a good poker hand!


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> Experience with new dac is on going, not going well


 
 Which dac are you using?


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> 
> Välmommen! Euforia låter verkligen mycket bra.


 
 xDDD. Är du Svensk?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Just wanted to get posts to 2222 so I can relax in the splendor of a good poker hand!


 

 So does this mean we won't see any further posts from you, as they would destroy your poker hand???


----------



## mordy

Hi Tunkejazz,
  
 I was born in Sweden but left for the US half a century ago but I still know Swedish.
  
 When I lived in Sweden traditional jazz swept Europe and I got hooked on it to this day - mainly 20's jazz.
  
 Here is a good example - High Society played by Bent Persson in the style of young Louis Armstrong:
  

  
 He is playing the clarinet solo part on trumpet.
  
 For comparison, here is the clarinet solo by a New Orleans pioneer, Alphonse Picou. He is said to have originated the solo around 1900. This recording was made in 1959 at the age of 81.


----------



## UntilThen

nwavesailor said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > She would want his Euforia.
> ...


 
  
 Or you can have Elise and Euforia, which is what I and a few others here have done.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Just wanted to get posts to 2222 so I can relax in the splendor of a good poker hand!


 
  
 I'll get to 7654 and beat you with a straight colour flush. 
  
 Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my Euforia. A return to 'standard' tubes with no adapters required have brought a smile to my face again. The tone from this amp with any of the recommended tubes is very relaxing and euphonic. 
  
 Euforia and euphonic? Well what do you expect? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also Lukasz is a great guy. He's busy but he has time for me. He has time for UntilThen. Can you imagine that?


----------



## HOWIE13

Are any of you noticing Euforia's sound changing with burn in?


----------



## UntilThen

howie13 said:


> Are any of you noticing Euforia's sound changing with burn in?


 
  
 Yup it gets more and more euphonic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I couldn't have ask for a better degree of warm and lushness but the tone is just about right for my ears now. Not too little not too much of warm and lushness, at the same time, with very revealing highs and seductive mids, with the low notes filling in very nicely. Soundstage is just about right too. Jazz, vocals, classical and classic rock all sound very good on this burn in Euforia.
  
 What is evident is that Euforia sounded more full bodied than Elise.... and in a good way. Having said that, Elise still sounds very good.


----------



## connieflyer

A little something for @hypnos1...


----------



## myphone

Have used Euforia for one week. My general impression: Euforia is a very transparent platform on which individual driver and output tubes clearly their characters. Output tubes used so far (order of relative bright to mellow): 7236, 5998, Bendix 6080WB and Tung sol 6080). Driver tubes used so far: (order of relative bright to mellow): Sylvania 6SN7GT Chrome top, RCA smoke VT-231, 5962. Headphones used so far  (order of relative bright to mellow): T1, HD 800, HD 650.
  
 Music played was mostly classical (Symphonies and violin concertos),some rock (Pink Floyd) and blue grass (Alison Krauss).
  
 My sound preference is resolution, transparency and music flow. Tonal preference is neutral to slightly warm.
  
 Euforia sound is determined by combination of driver tube, output tube and phone.
  
 7236 is wonderful with rock and blue grass. 7236 works well with HD650 with any of the above driver tubes; but needs warmer driver tubes (5692/RCA) to work well with T1 (800).  
  
 5998 is phenomenal with classical music: works well with HD800/T1 with any of the above driver tubes, with apparent different tones and flavors; works well with HD650 with Sylvania 6SN7. Sound of HD650 with 5998 with RCA smoke VT-231, or 5962 is really warm.
  
 The real pleasant surprise was Tung sol 6080 with Sylvania 6SN7GT Chrome top has the most relaxing presentation. It was like sitting outside early fall night in Canada looking up at stars and feeling breeze. Eternal. 
  
 It is fun to experiment different tube and phone combinations. Have a dozen more 6SN7 family tubes to experiment.


----------



## myphone

I have used 6AS7 OTL power amp (Atma-Sphere) for 20 years. There is a step to increase reliability and longevity of 6AS7 tubes in A-S amps: condition the 6AS7 tubes (especially NOS) with heater on only for 2-3 days before expose the tubes to any high voltage. One set of 6AS7 tubes lasts more than 10 years. Hope the same treatment would help tubes life expectancy in Euforia.


----------



## pctazhp

I really don't want to beat a dead horse into more complete death or foster an ongoing controversy. But the subject of USB data integrity did come up on this thread, and I found these posts from Jason Stoddard interesting, as Schiit apparently has done some investigation into the subject:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/19215#post_13437469
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/19230#post_13437546
  
 There are those on that Schiit thread who maintain that specialized devices such as the Singxer SU-1 are superior data sources to a PC, but they base their claims on listening rather that actual measurements.
  
 Also see this post if you have any interest in the subject: http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/19260#post_13438058  It appears the subject will be ongoing on that thread. I'm going to keep following it because I find the subject interesting. As I said earlier, I'm very happy with my Bimby feeding directly off my PC and not willing at this point to spend money to see if that setup could be improved. And if I were going to spend more money in that direction it would probably be to upgrade my Bimby to a Yiggy. But for me that would be a Bigly expenditure


----------



## mordy

Hi myphone,
  
 Which model Atma-Sphere have you been using?  How many driver and power tubes does it use? Could you make a comparison in sound with a favorite tube complement in the Euforia?
  
 About longevity of tubes I can not speak. Don't think that I have ever worn out a tube from use - too many choices in tube rolling and too many discoveries of the "tube du-jour" lol......


----------



## HOWIE13

untilthen said:


> Yup it gets more and more euphonic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's good-as expected, getting better all the time.


----------



## HOWIE13

@myphone
  
 That's very interesting information. Thanks.
  
 What sources are you using?


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi myphone,
> 
> Which model Atma-Sphere have you been using?  How many driver and power tubes does it use? Could you make a comparison in sound with a favorite tube complement in the Euforia?
> 
> About longevity of tubes I can not speak. Don't think that I have ever worn out a tube from use - too many choices in tube rolling and too many discoveries of the "tube du-jour" lol......


 
 Mordy, I have M60, built from A-S kits in 1997, 8 6AS7 output tubes and 4 6SN7 driver tubes per channel. Driver stage was later converted to 12 volt, 4 12SX7/12SN7.
  
 I am still in the process of sorting out my favorite tube combination in Euforia. 
  
 For classical music, HD800, I really like 5998 and 5692 combo. 
  
 For other genre, T1 and HD 650, either 7236 or 5998.  
  
 For casual listening, any genre, HD650, Tung-sol 6080/Sylvania 6SN7.
  
 ​For whatever reason, even though HD800/T1 are better than HD650 in audiophile parameters, HD650 just feels right.


----------



## myphone

howie13 said:


> @myphone
> 
> That's very interesting information. Thanks.
> 
> What sources are you using?


 
 Howie13,
  
  
 My sources: desk top computer -> Y-USB cable (battery power USB, tape off computer power) ->
  
 1) Ayre Codex single end - >Kimber silver streak cable ->Euforia -> single end to balanced adapter (Cardas/Neutrik)- HD800 Cardas cable, HD650 Cardas cable, T1 original cable.
  
 2) Ayer Codex balanced ->Cardas Neutral reference balanced cable -> Sennheiser HDVA balanced output -> HD800 Cardas cable, HD650 Cardas cable, T1 original cable.
  
 All phones wires are balanced.


----------



## HOWIE13

myphone said:


> Howie13,
> 
> 
> My sources: desk top computer -> Y-USB cable (battery power USB, tape off computer power) ->
> ...


 
 Thanks again.
  
 The Ayre looks a nice DAC.
  
 Just seen your reply above too. I like the way HD650 scales up so well with better quality amps and it's generally undemanding of the amp, working well with tube and SS.
  
 My only small gripe is the sound-stage which to me lacks depth and height-no complaints about the width though.


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> 
> I was born in Sweden but left for the US half a century ago but I still know Swedish.
> 
> When I lived in Sweden traditional jazz swept Europe and I got hooked on it to this day - mainly 20's jazz.


 
  
 Sorry I missed this one...
  
 Lately I have been listening mostly to Roberto Fonseca, he plays interesting stuff like this:


----------



## DecentLevi

tjw321 said:


> I'd rather put the money that "DDC" cost toward getting a better quality source. Why cheap out at the beginning of your audio chain and then spend that sort of money trying to fix it up? Or maybe just use the optical port instead of USB?
> BTW, AFAICT the Hugo 2 and the Singxer seem to have at least two compatible interfaces. As well as USB they both seem to support coax.


 

 Most computers don't have an optical audio output, and I'm not sure about the cost/benefit of getting a dedicated music source vs. the ease of just loading up existing audio files on your PC, especially for me now that I've got such an outstanding setup to get clean audio out of my PC.
  
 Actually the USB interface on the Singxer SU-1 is input only, and the only two 'similar' connections between this and the Hugo 2 are coaxial. However the SU-1 uses an "RCA coax" labeled as "S/PDIF 2", and the Hugo 2 has a "mini-coax" input type. So theoretically a custom cable like this one should work between the two, or a RCA coax to Optical TosLink converter unit between the two. 

  
 Also welcome @Tunkejazz! I think you remember me from those pioneering days with the Ember. My Euforia is still lost in the mail with EMS though (no movement at all after 22 days since leaving Poland), so ATM I'd recommend anybody in the US to avoid EMS service from Poland.
  
 Finally I think this is worthy to remind anyone who's using the Elise or Euforia as a pre-amp to make sure the volume is down before plugging in headphones - The volume generally needs to be maxed out for line-out, so I usually just turn it back down immediately before shutting down. Hasn't been an issue for me yet though.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...with @tjw321 and others talking about _source - _which, along with primary mains supply, I've been plugging for some time now, I thought it was time to put my money where my mouth is... (what's left of it after the Hugo 2 and Balanced Mains "Advanced Filter Supply"!!!).
  
 In short, I will no doubt invite a certain amount of derision at my profligacy, but as I have always drooled over owning a bit of Naim kit, I decided to aim high in the quality and convenience stakes and go for a UnitiCore server/streamer that also rips CDs in high quality onto its internal SSD (or HDD, if penny-pinching!), and controlled by any android or iOS unit. Plus, the clincher for me at least - direct _*coax out*_ to the DAC...(well, you only live once, and as I've said many times, Euforia _*deserves*_ to be spoilt lol!!
  
 And how this thing _*does*_ spoil her!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...the quality of sound coming from its ripped CDs is quite breathtaking....far better than I had really expected, to be honest. Can't begin to think of how it's gonna be with hi-res pieces, once I get everything sorted finally...
  
 At first, the increased clarity and FR handling was sounding just a tad too much at the top end for my T1s, but then remembered our old friend - _*burn-in*_. Then I realised also I hadn't finished my pure silver coax cable, to replace a rather good Ixos one (with screw-down WBT plugs). And so I duly finished the job - removing the BNC plug's centre pin, and using the 1.3mm silver wire as direct contact with the socket (ie. acting as the pin itself)...one less connector lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Anyway, the difference was immediately obvious - gone was the slight harshness, to be replaced by a wonderfully smooth, silky, clean sound...pure silver _*does*_ do wonders for a system..._*period!!*_...and _without_ any detriment to bass - the opposite, in fact! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And so, without further ado, her's the object of my (ever-increasingly mad!) desires.....
  

  
 ps. Complements Euforia quite nicely too IMHO!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Moral of the tale?....*see to that source lol!*...(perhaps without going quite so mad as myself though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 G'night all....


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice @hypnos1
 that's what I call a dedicated digital music source and a classy one at 1650 pounds of Naim quality. 3 other models above it are all in one unit.

Sure does look very matching with the Euforia. Congrats ! :bigsmile_face:  

There's even a remote control.


----------



## Spork67

decentlevi said:


> tjw321 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd rather put the money that "DDC" cost toward getting a better quality source. Why cheap out at the beginning of your audio chain and then spend that sort of money trying to fix it up? Or maybe just use the optical port instead of USB?
> ...


 
  
 Are you talking about laptops or PCs?
 Many ENTRY LEVEL PC motherboards may lack optical out.
 Most mid - high end MBs do have optical out.
 $15 (AUD) will buy a soundcard with optical out if you don't have it on the MB.


----------



## DecentLevi

I was talkin' laptops, I've yet to see one with an optical out, interesting tip though.
  
 I'm a PC guy, not Mac BTW


----------



## Oskari

Many macbooks have had them.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> In short, I will no doubt invite a certain amount of derision at my profligacy …
> 
> ps. Complements Euforia quite nicely too IMHO!...




You should! You've gone a liiitle bit bonkers lately. 

P.S. Yes, it does!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Very nice @hypnos1
> that's what I call a dedicated digital music source and a classy one at 1650 pounds of Naim quality. *3 other models above it are all in one unit.*
> 
> Sure does look very matching with the Euforia. Congrats !
> ...


 
  
 Thanks UT...but hey, you tryin' to bankrupt me totally, reminding me of those other beauties lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  
 Thankfully, this beauty is doing everything I will ever need - not really bothered it doesn't handle native DSD...what it's doing for 'plain' ol' RedBook CD quality is almost criminal - it just shouldn't happen, given the generally held view of this standard lol (given a decently engineered recording in the first place, of course!). I had thought my "WOW" days were pretty well over by now (until Hugo 2 arrives perhaps, that is!), but listening last night to my main test album "Turn of a Friendly Card" (The Alan Parsons Project), I literally couldn't believe the difference - basically, more of everything positive we've described about our F-A amps. And one of the main things that hits you first is the amazing soundstage - it takes this wonderful aspect of the EL tubes to new heights, to say the least. I've never heard anything like it. And it brings out details in a CD recording that I never knew existed, even when previously using some pretty good gear....presumably helped a good deal by playing back via the SSD rip and direct coax out to the DAC (plus, I can't emphasise enough the difference made by my home-made pure silver coax digital cable : £15 worth of wire, run through a channel in the 'honeycomb' innard of an old piece of high quality aerial cable, and a couple of plugs....£20 max total! (how much for a bought one with much thinner wire, no doubt?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And so all in all, I can now feel much happier at my extravagant expenditure..._*thank the Gods!!*_ This unit truly has opened my eyes (even more !!) to the importance of the media playback source.
 And as for optical out (which, by the way DL, both my old Fujitsu Amilo and more recent Dell laptops had!)...well, this Naim just blows it right out of the water LOL!!...no comparison whatsoever...
  
 In other words, I'm a very happy bunny indeed...and not just for Easter!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


oskari said:


> You should! You've gone a liiitle bit bonkers lately.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Trust you to remind me of my recent mental aberrations O...knew I could rely on you, mon ami!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CHEERS!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(Why? Because my insanity is now taking me _way_ above the clouds LOL!! And why keep money in savings that are losing value by the day?...have finally woken up!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...the Hennessy XO will just have to wait lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...


----------



## tjw321

hypnos1 said:


> ...
> Thankfully, this beauty is doing everything I will ever need - not really bothered it doesn't handle native DSD...what it's doing for 'plain' ol' RedBook CD quality is almost criminal - it just shouldn't happen, given the generally held view of this standard lol (given a decently engineered recording in the first place, of course!).
> ...


 
 I have a suspicion that the hi-res audio stuff is only really necessary for DS DACs, unless implemented really well. The R2R, multibit and whatever Chord call their technology, DACs seem to do just fine with RedBook, (as well as the high-end DS DACs). Mind you, the prices of the DACs with exotic architectures tend to put them in the high-end DS DAC territory anyway...


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1 you've mapped out your upgrade path very well. I can only imagine the arrival of Hugo 2 to bring even greater sonic delights. Just make sure it's black in colour !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My own upgrade path is 'delayed' due to more urgent refurbishment of a different 'deck' and also Elise restoration. Yes my beloved first FA amp is back in Poland now for some renewal work. I'm thinking of a 24k gold volume knob with matching gold feet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Meanwhile I can't keep my fingers from the ebay 'buy' button. It's time to dabble with some of the better 6sn7 drivers. So I just commit to these Sylvania 6sn7w. One review says that the highs will singe the hairs off your eardrums.


----------



## Tunkejazz

myphone said:


> ​For whatever reason, even though HD800/T1 are better than HD650 in audiophile parameters, HD650 just feels right.


 
 I agree!
 Furthermore, if you add a G1217 Kameleon inline filter module, the HD650 is very hard to beat tonally.
 The HD650 is great, just a little bit rolled in the sub-bass and upper treeble. The Kameleon module fills both upper and lower ends, making it much better in my opinion.
 It is a pity that the Kameleon is priced so badly. I got one of the prototypes at 1/2 of the price...


----------



## connieflyer

Hello @UntilThen took a play from your book and for the last week have been using the Psvane stock tubes with Raytheon 6080 graphite plates.  I must say that this is a very satisfying combination. Sound stage not quite as promininet but a little more "personal" for lack of a better term. Everything is there and very relaxing,  no strident overtones, I would characterize it as slightly warm, but not dark.  The present chain is Sony Haps-1 Euforia out to Sennheiser 800.  Easy to listen for hours, phones are some of the most comfortable I have ever used.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hello @UntilThen took a play from your book and for the last week have been using the Psvane stock tubes with Raytheon 6080 graphite plates.  I must say that this is a very satisfying combination. Sound stage not quite as promininet but a little more "personal" for lack of a better term. Everything is there and very relaxing,  no strident overtones, I would characterize it as slightly warm, but not dark.  The present chain is Sony Haps-1 Euforia out to Sennheiser 800.  Easy to listen for hours, phones are some of the most comfortable I have ever used.


 

 Glad to see that Psvanes are still in the running for you. Something I have to look forward to. I've been concerned that they have been laid to rest in @UntilThen's graveyard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I certainly agree about the comfort of the 800s


----------



## connieflyer

I had wondered about the Psvane's and why you had to have them with the Euforia. I had tried them for a very brief period and moved back to the EL's , curiosity got the best of me, and decided to try them.  Did not care for them with stock russian power tubes, but remembered how much I liked the Raytheon's when I had the Elise, tried them and was very pleasantly surprised.  Next week I am going to try the K-R vt-231's with the 6080's and see if I still like them as much as I used too. Go GLen!


----------



## pctazhp

spork67 said:


> Are you talking about laptops or PCs?
> Many ENTRY LEVEL PC motherboards may lack optical out.
> Most mid - high end MBs do have optical out.
> *$15 (AUD) will buy a soundcard with optical out if you don't have it on the MB.*


 
 Interesting suggestion. In my long past audiophile days I seem to remember that optical was considered inferior to coax. But seems like it might be worth a try to see if it is superior to USB. It seems to me that if "noise" from the PC's power supply is in fact a problem, optical would eliminate that. My Bimby has both optical and coax inputs, as well as the USB input I currently use.
  
 My PC will remain my source, as 99% of my listening is Tidal HD. My CD collection would not justify ripping to some kind of a server.
  
 Anyway, my 72-years old ears probably wouldn't appreciate a significant improvement in my source.


----------



## connieflyer

My own experience with sources, I have found co-ax to be superior to optical and usb. On my pc I use an Asus Essence 2, a very effiecent power supply and 4 200mm fans and 4 120mm fans that are so quiet you can only hear a whisper if you are standing right near the exhaust. Sound card has it's own dedicated pwr in and the card itself is shielded from stray emi. Soundcards amp is bypassed when used through co-ax.  Mind you this is what I have  found on my own system, your mileage may vary. Thought I would write out that last part for you @pctazhp in case you did not know what YMMV stood for!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> My own experience with sources, I have found co-ax to be superior to optical and usb. On my pc I use an Asus Essence 2, a very effiecent power supply and 4 200mm fans and 4 120mm fans that are so quiet you can only hear a whisper if you are standing right near the exhaust. Sound card has it's own dedicated pwr in and the card itself is shielded from stray emi. Soundcards amp is bypassed when used through co-ax.  Mind you this is what I have  found on my own system, your mileage may vary. Thought I would write out that last part for you @pctazhp in case you did not know what YMMV stood for!


 

 The Asus Essence 2 looks very interesting. And thanks for the heads up on YMMV. I always thought it stood for You Make Me Very-crazy


----------



## Spork67

I must admit I haven't tried anything other then USB out from my PC to DAC.
 Given that I'm happy with my current DAC (Grace m9xx), and it ONLY has USB input, that's not likely to change in the near future!
 (OK, I don't PLAN on changing it - but you never know...)
 I don't scrimp on PSUs when I assemble a new PC. Like other parts, I place importance on low noise / silent operation for the PSU, as well as quality, ripple-free power output.
 My current desktop PC manages high performance AND near silent operation - the fans are only really audible during stress-testing / benchmarking, or in some games. In a typical music listening situation - with maybe 2-3 browsers open and 25-30 tabs in total, Foobar and maybe a couple of other things going on the CPU fans are just lazily rotating and most the other 5 case fans aren't moving at all.
  
 I did toy with the idea of building a dedicated music PC, but decided that sort of defeated the purpose of using headphones anyway, as I would still need to be able to hear sounds from my everyday multipurpose PC.
 If I pause the music I can turn the amp volume to full and I don't hear a thing through the headphones. That's good enough for me.


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, just wanted to let you know that I'm parting with my EL11/12 collection. For more info see here: post #7954 on the Elise thread.


----------



## angpsi

Oh, and I do enjoy how the Psvane are getting some love with your setups! Back in the day when I was alone in this I almost felt crazy to externalise my favorable opinion on those. Plus, the _very first_ _pm_ I got when I first wrote about getting the Elise actually was
  
 "don't get the chinese tubes, generally speaking they're rubbish"!


----------



## UntilThen

Hello guys, talking about PC noise or USB noise, let me remind you of this often quoted verse...
  
"Somebody was trying to tell me that CDs are better than vinyl because they don't have any surface noise. I said, 'Listen, mate, *life* has surface noise."  




 That's why I still spin vinyl.
  
 Btw USB means Ultra Sonic Baby.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to let you know that I'm parting with my EL11/12 collection. For more info see here: post #7954 on the Elise thread.


 
  
 Hello apsi, thou shalt not touch my 6sn7 and 6as7 world wide stock. Now that you are selling your EL11/12 collection, what chance have I got of selling mine? I'd have to offer free tickets to Taylor Swift's live performances to be able to sell my EL tubes now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


angpsi said:


> Oh, and I do enjoy how the Psvane are getting some love with your setups! Back in the day when I was alone in this I almost felt crazy to externalise my favorable opinion on those. Plus, the _very first_ _pm_ I got when I first wrote about getting the Elise actually was
> 
> *"don't get the chinese tubes, generally speaking they're rubbish"!*


 
  
 Let me tell you those Psvane are UK version and design. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 However I'm now more keen on Sylvania 6sn7 drivers now. They are just sweet like honey. They would suffice until @pctazhp buys me a pair of Tung Sol 6sn7gt black round plates.


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> Hello apsi, thou shalt not touch my 6sn7 and 6as7 world wide stock. Now that you are selling your EL11/12 collection, what chance have I got of selling mine? I'd have to offer free tickets to Taylor Swift's live performances to be able to sell my EL tubes now.


 
 Well, I'm pretty sure a Taylor Swift live performance will be very appealing to an ELphile crowd! Punchy and dynamic, yet bubbly! You've got a real chance here my friend!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Hello @UntilThen took a play from your book and for the last week have been using the Psvane stock tubes with Raytheon 6080 graphite plates.  I must say that this is a very satisfying combination. Sound stage not quite as promininet but a little more "personal" for lack of a better term. Everything is there and very relaxing,  no strident overtones, I would characterize it as slightly warm, but not dark.  The present chain is Sony Haps-1 Euforia out to Sennheiser 800.  Easy to listen for hours, phones are some of the most comfortable I have ever used.


 
  
 I could buy a pair of Raytheon 6080 graphite plates for AUD$80 but I didn't because I wanted to get more 6sn7 drivers now. Haven't heard those Raytheon 6080 graphites but I believe they should sound like Bendix 6080wb.
  


pctazhp said:


> connieflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Hello @UntilThen took a play from your book and for the last week have been using the Psvane stock tubes with Raytheon 6080 graphite plates.  I must say that this is a very satisfying combination. Sound stage not quite as promininet but a little more "personal" for lack of a better term. Everything is there and very relaxing,  no strident overtones, I would characterize it as slightly warm, but not dark.  The present chain is Sony Haps-1 Euforia out to Sennheiser 800.  Easy to listen for hours, phones are some of the most comfortable I have ever used.
> ...


 
  
 Anyone who needs to dump their Psvane 6sn7, can send it downunder. I will give it a fitting resting place.
  
 Btw I'm willing to trade my T1 for a HD800. Change of direction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


connieflyer said:


> I had wondered about the Psvane's and why you had to have them with the Euforia. I had tried them for a very brief period and moved back to the EL's , curiosity got the best of me, and decided to try them.  Did not care for them with stock russian power tubes, but remembered how much I liked the Raytheon's when I had the Elise, tried them and was very pleasantly surprised.  Next week I am going to try the K-R vt-231's with the 6080's and see if I still like them as much as I used too. Go GLen!


 
  
 I shouldn't have written so much about the virtues of 6sn7 and 6as7. Now you won't sell me those Ken Rad 6sn7 vt231 anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What is 'Go GLen' ???


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Hello apsi, thou shalt not touch my 6sn7 and 6as7 world wide stock. Now that you are selling your EL11/12 collection, what chance have I got of selling mine? I'd have to offer free tickets to Taylor Swift's live performances to be able to sell my EL tubes now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh sure!!! I'll certainly get a pair for you before I get one myself. I've had my eye on those also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's the deal. Between you tempting me to buy the TS tubes and @connieflyer leading to believe that I am living a forlorn and empty life without ASUS Sound Card Essence STX II, the two of you are going to send me to the poor house. I can't even read @hypnos1 posts because to follow him I'd be taking out a huge mortgage just to move into the poor house


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Oh sure!!! I'll certainly get a pair for you before I get one myself. I've had my eye on those also
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 For a semi retired lawyer, what's a pair of TS BRP ? 
  
 We can't touch @hypnos1 now. He's on a higher plane. We have to be more creative with our street craft or busking in order to make our system stand out.
  
 I'm still using Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Mullard 6080 in Euforia and feel no need to change. Even @angpsi has latched onto Mullard 6080. This is a dangerous situation. Those 6sn7 / 6as7 prices will rise again on the stock market.


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp trust me good sir I would never ever send you to The Pour House however I might drive you to The Pour House as a friend I thought that I should at least offer to do that.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> @pctazhp trust me good sir I would never ever send you to The Pour House however I might drive you to The Pour House as a friend I thought that I should at least offer to do that.


 
  
 Too right. What are friends for. If you can't, I'll drive him to the Poor (not Pour) House myself... but not before he bequeaths to me all his tubes .. and I don't mind the HD800S..... I'm sure I'll be able to extend the treble on it.


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *angpsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Well, I'm pretty sure a Taylor Swift live performance will be very appealing to an ELphile crowd! Punchy and dynamic, yet bubbly! You've got a real chance here my friend!


 
  
 You mean this punchy and dynamic? and bubbly?


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Too right. What are friends for. If you can't, I'll drive him to the Poor (not Pour) House myself... but not before he bequeaths to me all his tubes .. and I don't mind the HD800S..... I'm sure I'll be able to extend the treble on it.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> *For a semi retired lawyer, what's a pair of TS BRP ? *
> 
> We can't touch @hypnos1 now. He's on a higher plane. We have to be more creative with our street craft or busking in order to make our system stand out.
> 
> I'm still using Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Mullard 6080 in Euforia and feel no need to change. Even @angpsi has latched onto Mullard 6080. This is a dangerous situation. Those 6sn7 / 6as7 prices will rise again on the stock market.


 
  
 Well, food for starters. I'm more like a semi-retired farmer whose one claim to fame is he's out-standing in his field


----------



## connieflyer

Actually it was the Pour House as that is a local bistro that way he can be both comforted and controlled while we relieve him of all his money!


----------



## angpsi

untilthen said:


> You mean this punchy and dynamic? and bubbly?


 

 To me it sounds more like this!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Actually it was the Pour House as that is a local bistro that way he can be both comforted and controlled *while we relieve him of all his money!*


 
  
 Aha cf, I _*knew*_ I should never have gone to that strange-looking diner on my way home from our local meet lol!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(at least I can now blame it all on someone/thing else!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...not to mention yourself for plugging more of my dear Loreena, thereby encouraging me to get her sounding at her very best!...and you too, @pctazhp for plugging dear Linda R - another of my old favourites - even if yours was somewhat "ex post facto" lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 And yes @UntilThen, my extravagance has indeed already taken everything to another level entirely, and I have no regrets whatsoever lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but no doubt similar results can be achieved more frugally - if one is prepared to go a rather more circuitous route perhaps. I myself decided to finally 'bite the bullet'...have had enough of 'trying this, trying that', not to mention constant _compromise_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. And I feel fortunate indeed that I'm in a position to actually be able (at last!!) to take the path of least resistance lol!...and one I can heartily recommend _trying_ to move towards in life as best possible, if given half a chance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 And @tjw321, I'm quite sure that only _really_ expensive hi-end DSD-handling gear will be able to significantly improve upon the kind of sound the likes of my Naim can squeeze out of PCM, given a half-decent non-DSD DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(ps. shame you couldn't make it to the MK meet, but family sure comes first...perhaps CanJam London?...).
  
 ps. Glad to hear everyone's loving their Euforia...but with 11 at least off the bench, perhaps there's one or two we haven't yet heard from lol?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

Being frugal I like the fact that my present driver tubes only use 0.2A of current. In addition I can barely see if they are on because the heater glow is so faint. Had to do a long exposure in the dark to bring out the tiny flames:
  

  
 East meets East: (Sounds good no? Pun intended)
  
 The right tube is a Svetlana 6J32P and the left one a National re-branded RFT. How do I know that it is a RFT?
  




  
 You see those spear heads sticking out of them bunker slits in the plate? That's the give away.
  
 I think that Howie13 said that the RFT sounded dull and lifeless (hope I am quoting correctly). And that's how it sounded when I plugged it in. Ah well, I did not spend much on this tube....
  
 However, after a while, this East German tube, playing with it's big Russian brother, came to life. They sound very similar now and exhibit the *THREE D's*:
  
*D*elicate, *D*etailed and *D*elicious. (powered by East German EL12N tubes) Or was it *D*elirious? And a surprisingly full and powerful  bass for these tiny peanut tubes.
  
 Cheap thrills:
  
 Prices, including shipping were $13.40 for the pair of 6J32P tubes, and $ 4.74 for the RFT.
  
 Need pairs of EF86 Valvo and Telefunken tubes if you know of any good deals.......Also a GE branded Matsush....ita pair (Made in Japan) with real h1 mesh plates.....
  
 I want to express my thanks to UT for introducing me to these tubes.


----------



## myphone

Has anyone tried EF80?


----------



## UntilThen

Yup a duppa do. I have indeed tried EF80. Both Siemens and Mullard. Sounded very good and they are cheaper.


----------



## UntilThen

But UT is now rehabilitated. He is now back to clean living and wholesome 6sn7 / 6as7


----------



## myphone

untilthen said:


> Yup a duppa do. I have indeed tried EF80. Both Siemens and Mullard. Sounded very good and they are cheaper.


 
 Thanks, UntilThen.
  
 How are sound signatures of Siemens, Mullard, and Amperex? 
  
 Yes, they are cheap and plentiful.
  
 Saw a Chinese amp online, TingFeng MZ-6 pro, that uses 4 EF80 and 2 6AS7 and is fully balanced.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Yup a duppa do. I have indeed tried EF80. Both Siemens and Mullard. Sounded very good and they are cheaper.
> ...


 
  
 Mullard is a bit warmer, just a bit. Siemens is less so. These tubes were originally used on my La Figaro 339. Same with EF86. On the LF339, these drivers sounded clear and on the bright side. That's why I could pair it with Svetlana 6h13c or Chatham 6520 and be very happy listening to it ... with HD650.
  
 I have not heard an Amperex branded one before.
  
 Btw, your descriptions of the various power tubes (5998, 7236, Bendix 6080wb) were very much in line with what I hear. Those 3 as well as the cheaper Mullard 6080 and Chatham 6as7 have remain as my favourite power tubes. GEC 6as7g is good but I can't see how it's worth twice as much as TS 5998. I had it on my Euforia at the meet. I actually prefer the more exciting sound of the trio.


----------



## myphone

untilthen said:


> Mullard is a bit warmer, just a bit. Siemens is less so. These tubes were originally used on my La Figaro 339. Same with EF86. On the LF339, these drivers sounded clear and on the bright side. That's why I could pair it with Svetlana 6h13c or Chatham 6520 and be very happy listening to it ... with HD650.
> 
> I have not heard an Amperex branded one before.
> 
> Btw, your descriptions of the various power tubes (5998, 7236, Bendix 6080wb) were very much in line with what I hear. Those 3 as well as the cheaper Mullard 6080 and Chatham 6as7 have remain as my favourite power tubes. GEC 6as7g is good but I can't see how it's worth twice as much as TS 5998. I had it on my Euforia at the meet. I actually prefer the more exciting sound of the trio.


 
 Agree. 5998, 7236, Bendix 6080wb match very well with HD650. 
  
 A bit tougher to match HD800/T1, especially for for non-classical music and Jazz.  For Rock/blue grass, country and pop warmer RCA tubes are a bit slow. 
  
 I only use T1 and HD650 for rock, country and pop. In my ears, HD 800 just does not sound right regardless tube combinations.
  
 Classical music and Jazz are fine with warmer/richer driver tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

My ears are very adaptable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I could be loving T1 with brighter tubes one moment and the next, be totally satisfied too when I switch to warmer, more relaxed tone of HD650 and warmer tubes. 
  
 It's just variations to me and that's why I love tube amps. Small but very discernible differences when you switched tubes. 
  
 I have RCA 6sn7gt vt231 smoke glass. This is probably my warmest sounding driver. I don't use it much except when I want a warmest tone. Pairing it with a brighter power tube works too... and probably with T1.


----------



## UntilThen

And now having not heard my T1 for several days, I put it on and immediately I hear so much more than the HD650. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Between different headphones, tubes and tube amps, I can go nuts experimenting with different tones. It got so bad that I finally gave the La Figaro 339 to my son. Too much rolling of everything. I find myself listening to gear instead of music.
  
 Now I just switch on Euforia and let it go..... 
  
 Oh I'm a tube amp lover. You'll never convince me to switch to ss amp. Heard Audio Gd balanced and Violectric v281 ss amps but I'll still prefer a good tube amp sound any day.


----------



## UntilThen

@myphone do you have a picture of your atma-sphere. Curious to see how it looks.
  
 This?


----------



## connieflyer

It, have been using the K R vt231 s tonight with the Raytheon 6080 and these sound so much better on the Eufotia than they did on the Else, much more detail in the bass range than before. Male vocals are really its forte. Pleasantly surprised.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> It, have been using the K R vt231 s tonight with the Raytheon 6080 and these sound so much better on the Eufotia than they did on the Else, much more detail in the bass range than before. *Male vocals are really its forte.* Pleasantly surprised.


 
  
 Like the 3 Tenors? There will never be the likes of these again.


----------



## connieflyer

Is that a self portrait of @UntilThen, @pctazhp and @hypnos1?  Looks familiar, new you guys liked music but did not know you could sing!


----------



## myphone

UT, My A-S was built from manufacture kit. Much older. Your picture is current pretty version

  
 Eight 6AS7 tubes were removed, and Euforia drivers tubes were put in "getting conditioning" with heater on only. 
  
 Left two columns: 5692, RCA VT-231 Smoke glass; (Middle columns: original A-S tubes: 12SX7 and 12SN7); Right columns: Sylvania 6SN7WGT, Siemens EF80.
  
 Euforia has all the attention.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> UT, My A-S was built from manufacture kit. Much older. Your picture is current pretty version
> 
> Eight 6AS7 tubes were removed, and Euforia drivers tubes were put in "getting conditioning" with heater on only.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So you are using your Atma Sphere to condition your tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 "Euforia has all the attention" - rightly so. This tube amp responds very well to all the 6sn7 and 6as7 / 6080 that I've tried so far. Which is not a surprise. This tube amp is specifically designed for 6sn7 / 6as7. This is Henryk's workmanship. It's a step up definitely over Elise with not an unsubstantial price increase but all the upgrades and re-tuning has turn out a tube amp that is worthy of a spot in a good head-fi system. One that has @hypnos1 take the plunge and upgraded his source, DAC and power conditioner. It's a good move in my opinion. Euforia deserves to be partnered with the best of equipment now.
  
 I have that Sylvania 6sn7wgt in your A-S.
  
 This is a quote from 6SN7 Reference thread on it:-
_“Non-fatiguing, smooth, with good detail resolution, bandwidth and speed. Bass can be a bit warm and exaggerated, a good thing if your speakers are bass shy. Does not have the midrange ambience and resolution of the VT-231 types. But very good overall.” –Chimera_
  
I agree with the above statement.
  
However it's the following impression that has made me commit to a pair of Sylvania 6sn7w.
  
_“The 6SN7WGT and WGTA (sounds very similar) are good tubes, but they aren't on par with the earlier 6SN7W tubes (any of the three versions). It is the midrange that is lacking: a bit lean and diffuse compared to the full sound of the 6SN7W. The treble isn't as sparkling either, although the 6SN7WGT is still great in the upper registers. I actually like the midbass of the WGT/WGTA better though, as I find it a little tighter. But overall, it doesn't compare to the terrific Syl 6SN7W.” –Len _
  
After more than 1.5 years with Elise and now Euforia, I'm just starting to explore 6sn7. It's not too late. 




  
 Ps... I'm bidding on a pair of Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231. Don't go on a bidding war with me please.


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys...now that my Naim UnitiCore Server/Streamer/NAS (in effect!)/CD ripper/Hard Drive player and silver coax cable have burned in some more, all I can say is...._*get saving NOW lol!!!*_





.
  
 This piece of kit alone takes  Euforia to a level I doubt even F-A have fully realised (perhaps!). And that's just with 'ordinary' 44.1 kHz 16 bit fare. Have just been listening to some hi-res downloads from HDTracks (copied to the Naim's SSD painlessly and wirelessly from my laptop), and IMHO you won't have to bother about DSD..._*ever!!*_





. Holographic soundstage; detail retrieval; FR extension and effortless handling; vocal/instrumental separation and positioning, are clear and precise with immaculate control, and PRaT to die for. What more could you ask lol?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So don't even hesitate - put this beauty on your must-have list right away, and don't look back...(or bother to look at the bank balance!)...it really is _*that *_good..._in my own setup that is, of course!!_ (but there's no reason at all why it shouldn't do wonders for anyone else with half-decent gear...which means ALL here in Euforia land, no?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(start putting out Birthday/Christmas hints now...even if only to _yourself_ - you deserve it!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...CHEERS!...CJ
  
 ie...............................................
  

  
 Absolutely just made for Euforia...or Elise, for that matter!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Is that a self portrait of @UntilThen, @pctazhp and @hypnos1?  Looks familiar, new you guys liked music but did not know you could sing!


----------



## connieflyer

Pct did H1 just say he eas buying us all the new Naim for Christmas?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Pct did H1 just say he eas buying us all the new Naim for Christmas?


 
  
 YES. His generosity is legendary


----------



## connieflyer

hypnos1 what dac are you using with the Naim? Is it the Hugo now? Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> @hypnos1 what dac are you using with the Naim? Is it the Hugo now? Inquiring minds want to know!


 
  
 Hey cf...you and pct think I've got any cash left lol?..._*SORRY!!!*_





...reckon @UntilThen still has some reserves though - unless he's spent it all on his outdoor projects!!...(c'mon UT...do the decent thing lol!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







).
  
 And actually D, all my glowing reports are still without the Hugo 2 (but a very nice tube DAC nonetheless!) or my fancy Balanced Mains Conditioner/Filter! So I can't begin to imagine just what's in store come the end of May...you have been warned!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  
 BFN...CJ


----------



## Oskari

CJ, there's got to be an internal DAC there, too. Do try that as well.

P.S. My birthday is before Xmas. I'll be happy to get my Naim for my birthday. Thank you so much.


----------



## Oskari

From one of my favourite albums:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKz5bK4wwn4[/VIDEO]

_Colours by Phil Collins_


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Is that a self portrait of @UntilThen, @pctazhp and @hypnos1?  Looks familiar, new you guys liked music but did not know you could sing!


 
  
 I hate to tell you this but we're the 3 amigos and we're looking for a 4th. Are you interested?


----------



## connieflyer

But of course what could be more fun!


----------



## UntilThen

Ah thank you H1 for thinking of getting us Hugo 2 !!!
  
 My research has led me to a different r2r ladder deck under the gum trees. It's the most musical and peaceful spot in the world..... and no power needed.


----------



## connieflyer

Now that looks as peaceful as you can get , fantastic if that's yours I am jealous, if it isn't yours I hope you get one like it, beautiful place to spend time.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys...now that my Naim UnitiCore Server/Streamer/NAS (in effect!)/CD ripper/Hard Drive player and silver coax cable have burned in some more, all I can say is...._*get saving NOW lol!!!*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Diversity is good for us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As an Audirvana Plus 3 fan, I'll stay with my iMac 27".
  
 Look at my beautiful Audirvana player.
  

  
 and a lovely looking iMac. Elise and Euforia have the same design philosophy. Less is more.


----------



## UntilThen

untilthen said:


> Ps... I'm bidding on a pair of Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231. Don't go on a bidding war with me please.


 
  
 Ok... who is on a bidding war with me on the Ken Rads ?!!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Now that looks as peaceful as you can get , fantastic if that's yours I am jealous, if it isn't yours I hope you get one like it, beautiful place to spend time.


 
  
 It will when it's finished. I'll move my tube amp and headphone out there and get some natural sounding music. Did you know kookaburras and wild turkeys visit my backyard all the time? Including a flock of white cockatoos that got my pooch really worried.


----------



## connieflyer

I have a couple kookooneighbors I can send you for variety!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> But of course *what could be more fun!*


 
 Taking out the garbage???


----------



## connieflyer

That could do it, but this would be more in line with what you like


----------



## connieflyer

Now for one of my favorites now that PCT is happy...


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Diversity is good for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am so glad I don't even have a clue as to what you are taking about. They don't call me *PC*tazhp for nothing
  
 I'm not the one bidding on the Ken Rad. I want a pair of those TS round plates. I haven't had a recent spiritual rehabilitation like you, but I have been enjoying my standard, original issue TS6SN7s. Seems coming back to 6SN7s may be like Gulliver who traveled all over the world and then found what he had always been looking for right in his back yard. At least I think that's what happened to him and I think that may apply here. If not, please consider it a congratulations on your new backyard deck


----------



## connieflyer

Wow,! what's up with Gulliver? I must have missed something, last things I saw was him lying down all tied up, I think that was when I slipped off into a fantasy or something!


----------



## connieflyer

NIce sound on this version, GLen Frey


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Wow,! what's up with Gulliver? I must have missed something, last things I saw was him lying down all tied up, I think that was when I slipped off into a fantasy or something!


 

 Sure you're not thinking of Rip Van Winkle? How many years were you sleeping in that fantasy or something???


----------



## pctazhp

For the windmills of @connieflyer's mind while he's deep in his fantasy or something:


----------



## UntilThen

> Originally Posted by *pctazhp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am so glad I don't even have a clue as to what you are taking about. They don't call me *PC*tazhp for nothing
> 
> I'm not the one bidding on the Ken Rad. I want a pair of those TS round plates. I haven't had a recent spiritual rehabilitation like you, but I have been enjoying my standard, original issue TS6SN7s. Seems coming back to 6SN7s may be like Gulliver who traveled all over the world and then found what he had always been looking for right in his back yard. At least I think that's what happened to him and I think that may apply here. If not, please consider it a congratulations on your new backyard deck


 
  
 So that's what PC means. I thought it's Phil Collins all this while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Which Tung Sol 6SN7 are you referring to? 
  
 I'm looking to buy a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7gtb after reading this... from the 6SN7 Reference thread
  
*Tung-Sol White Label 6SN7GTB (1960s vintage)*

_[3 versions: *a.* top D-getter, tall bottle *b.* top O-getter, tall bottle *c.* short bottle. ALL VERSIONS have triangular black plates, black base, white labels.] [There are also a number of Tungsol branded GTB's with flat ribbed plates that are rebrands from other makers, particularly RCA. All Tungsol GTB's after the tri-plate short bottle version are rebrands of inferior quality.]_
  
“Very fast, clean and dynamic. Excellent bandwidth, good harmonic structure. A little too analytical and it sounds better mixed with some of the more musical tubes Very good driver tube and likes to be mixed with RCA bottom getter 6SN7.” -Chimera
  
  “The Tung Sol 6SN7GTB is a nice tube. Good clear sound.” –Hirsch


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> So that's what PC means. I thought it's Phil Collins all this while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't really know. I have 2 pairs of them, but don't remember where or how I got them. This is what they look like:


----------



## UntilThen

Yes that's what I'm looking for. I can't see your top getter. Looks 'O' or 'D' but both fits the descriptions above and should be good.
  
 This is another picture of one with a 'D' horseshoe top getter.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Yes that's what I'm looking for. I can't see your top getter. Looks 'O' or 'D' but both fits the descriptions above and should be good.
> 
> This is another picture of one with a 'D' horeshoe top getter.


 
 I really can't tell about the getter. On top it's labeled 6SN7 GTB if that means anything. They sound very good to me. Probably better than my Sylvania Gold Brand 6SN7WGT NOS Brown Base Black Plate Vacuum Tubes that I paid $150 for. I get very confused about the different TS and Sylvania versions of 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

6SN7GTB are more recent NOS tube. GT is older, followed by GTA then GTB. However these Tung Sol 6sn7gtb are still 60s vintage - it's old enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The getter is the antenna looking thing under the chrome part of the top. Have a look at it. It's either circular or a 'D' shape. It doesn't really matter - both are of this period vintage and has good reviews.
  
 I've decided to buy this pair. Looks very similar to yours. We need Oskari to tell us the year of manufacture from the codes.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct this is the getter I'm talking about.
  
 Getter at the top

  
  
 some tubes have getters at the bottom like this


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> We need Oskari to tell us the year of manufacture from the codes.




I wish I could but nobody seems to know this T-S code.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Pct this is the getter I'm talking about.
> 
> Getter at the top
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry. I've got chef duty tonight, so trying to keep from setting house on fire and checking getters!!! I looked at the two tubes not now in the amp and looks like they both have O top getters.


----------



## UntilThen

oskari said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > We need Oskari to tell us the year of manufacture from the codes.
> ...


 
  
 What? You don't know? Impossible.
  
 Let me guess....  322 is Tung Sol id....  NC - who knows... North Carolina?  
  
 No try again. 'N' is 14th alphabet and 'C' is 3rd..... so 14 - 3 and then there's the last 3.
  
 Ok I give up. I think it's the enigma code - 322NC3


----------



## connieflyer

@UntilThen did you win the K-R vt 231's?  These are really getting exciting, the bass is really good.  Listening to these and they sound excellent


----------



## UntilThen

CF, I am not chasing the Ken Rad this time. The auction is getting real hot at the moment. I bought the Tung Sol 6sn7gtb with the enigma code instead..... Pct confirm it's good.... if not I'll send him the invoice.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, glad to hear i know when I was chasing mine they were hard to find n pars  took a little


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> CF, I am not chasing the Ken Rad this time. The auction is getting real hot at the moment. I bought the Tung Sol 6sn7gtb with the enigma code instead..... Pct confirm it's good.... *if not I'll send him the invoice. *


 
 I'm close to ordering the ASUS Sound Card Essence STX II @connieflyer recommended. If it doesn't sound better I will report him to the moderator.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm close to ordering the ASUS Sound Card Essence STX II @connieflyer recommended. If it doesn't sound better I will report him to the moderator.


 
  
 Oh dear lol. 
  
 Be careful what you recommend here.


----------



## pctazhp

untilthen said:


> Oh dear lol.
> 
> Be careful what you recommend here.


 

 Based on my experience this evening, I recommend not trying to cook and check getters at the same time


----------



## Oskari

untilthen said:


> What? You don't know? Impossible.




Yes, I know it _is_ tough to fathom. :rolleyes:


----------



## UntilThen

So many pairs of GEC 6as7g on ebay and no one is biting. I think everyone here has migrated to EL tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's a brand new pair and the box is still so new. How do they keep it so well after so many years.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm reformatting my iMac's hard disc and reinstalling OS X El Capitan. It will be a strictly music box thereafter with Audirvana Plus 3 and Tidal Premium. Maybe I'll get JRiver Media 22 in there too. Have to keep up with the Naim competition.


----------



## Oskari

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVtDW5wB2k[/VIDEO]

_Cathedral Song_


----------



## UntilThen

Success. iMac reset to factory settings and macOS Sierra version 10.12.4 installed. Plus I have an assistant now. Siri. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 She does what I want her to do. All I have to do is say 'Play Jailhouse Rock' and Elvis Presley will appear on the screen. Ingenious !


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Siri's not working. She's sacked. She wouldn't play me the song I wanted but will tell me the date if I ask her.
  
 But Audirvana Plus 3 with Tidal Premium is ruling the airways. This is the highest fidelity.


----------



## connieflyer

While she was working you should have asked for a new Ferrari


----------



## Tunkejazz

untilthen said:


> Ok Siri's not working. She's sacked. She wouldn't play me the song I wanted but will tell me the date if I ask her.
> 
> But Audirvana Plus 3 with Tidal Premium is ruling the airways. This is the highest fidelity.


 

 What software/device/app do you use to access Tidal?


----------



## myphone

untilthen said:


> Ok... who is on a bidding war with me on the Ken Rads ?!!!


 
 Not me. I am too busy sorting tubes out in basement.


----------



## UntilThen

tunkejazz said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Ok Siri's not working. She's sacked. She wouldn't play me the song I wanted but will tell me the date if I ask her.
> ...


 
  
 Audirvana Plus 3 - software player that runs on Mac.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> untilthen said:
> 
> 
> > Ok... who is on a bidding war with me on the Ken Rads ?!!!
> ...


----------



## mordy

Hi myphone,
  
 How many tubes do you have? I reckon that I have some 500 ATM, but I only use a few of them. And I need more - bemoaning the demise of the 99c stores on eBay.....
  
 Most of the tubes I have are from my Little Dot days, 6AK5 etc. 7-8 years ago tubes were cheap and easy to find, but today the prices are climbing to insane heights; alas those 6AK5 tubes have not increased in price.....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-PIECES-NOS-NIB-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-6AK5W-5654-6AK5-403-A-6J1-AMP-VINTAGE-TUBES-/272640946637?hash=item3f7aaab1cd:g:f5QAAMXQCgpRtQNf
  
 But I don't trust that old guy.......
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AK5-6AK5W-5654-5654W-6J1-403A-TUBES-NEW-5000-PIECES-NOS-NIB-GENERAL-ELETRIC-/302233892949?hash=item465e8b3855:g:EW8AAOSwnDZT4D~V


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> CJ, there's got to be an internal DAC there, too. Do try that as well.
> 
> P.S. My birthday is before Xmas. I'll be happy to get my Naim for my birthday. Thank you so much.


 
  
 Hmmm, O....for that money one might have expected some sort of DAC inside - but nope...this is Naim gear, remember...you usually need to take out a mortgage with these guys lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But when compared to the competition, it looks like this time they've pitched a bit better in the ballpark...er no, a LOT better!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And actually, I think that was a very good move, given most folks like to choose their own DAC! Another killer move was to let you decide your own hard drive to install - either HDD or SSD. In my own case, I had a Crucial M4 500Gb SSD that my laptops suddenly refused to recognise, no matter what I tried, and was destined for the bin. Decided to give it a try in the Naim...et voila...works a treat lol!! (and so at least sweetens the pill/bill a bit!!)....and love the no-moving-parts drive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps. Methinks I should never have mentioned the Naim...the begging letters are flooding through my letterbox already lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but if I should win big time on the Premium Bonds, I would certainly share my source of elation with all you guys!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(so wish me luck!!!)....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 pps. Just so as you might think of praying to the Norse Gods, O, I've just listened to a hi-res recording of Moussorgsky's "Great Gate of Kiev", and currently have Jeff Wayne's Musical version of War of the Worlds scrambling my brain, and I simply cannot understand how this marvel can conjure up a soundstage such as I've never experienced before - my T1s now have the breadth of the HD800 but for me, even _*better*_ overall...with no hint whatsoever of the occasional slightly "diffuse" presentation that the Senns can sometimes present - _*to my ears/preferences*_ (and to some others also, it would appear...). This sound is so solid and perfectly controlled I've no desire whatsoever to even think of trying any other cans _whatsoever_...hence another pill sweetener lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Did I mention Richard Burton's and Justin Hayward's voices sounding even more absolutely delicious in this WoWs?...and the acoustic instruments?...and the electronic sound effects?...and the...? OK, OK...enough is enough...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


untilthen said:


> Ah thank you H1 for thinking of getting us Hugo 2 !!!
> 
> My research has led me to a different r2r ladder deck under the gum trees. It's the most musical and peaceful spot in the world..... and no power needed.


 
  
 Hmmm, now then UT...just get yourself a pile of Marine Ply, get out the saw, nails and glue...and save me the forlorn hope of winning on my Bonds lol!! I know of 3 guys at least who would be forever in your debt!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...
  


untilthen said:


> Diversity is good for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ver nice looking setup UT...and am sure it sounds real nice too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(but when you've finished with the Ply, don't forget to treat yourself to the Naim - once you've done the decent thing for others, of course!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)....CHEERS!...


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi myphone,
> 
> How many tubes do you have? I reckon that I have some 500 ATM, but I only use a few of them. And I need more - bemoaning the demise of the 99c stores on eBay.....
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, Lord. You need to sale your tubes and get a Focal Utopia.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm, O....for that money one might have expected some sort of DAC inside - but nope...this is Naim gear, remember...you usually need to take out a mortgage with these guys lol!!




That's surprising. I don't know the brand that well.


----------



## Tunkejazz

oskari said:


> That's surprising. I don't know the brand that well.


 

 I have the now old Naim Dac in my stereo system. The dac sounds very good in my opinion, but it is a very expensive brand for what you get. I bought mine second hand for almost half the price of a new one and it was still absurdly expensive for my taste.


----------



## DecentLevi

My Euforia landed in California two days ago - slowed down by some major life issues, just now having time to post about it here.
  
 Initially I was taken aback that it really does sound a step up from the Elise! Now two days later with moderate burn in I'm feeling it's a great step forward from the Elise which was already unrivaled in its' price ratio. Already I'm getting a sound with legendary realism, intricate intamacy, expansive soundstage and nearly effortless dynamics.
  
 Initially I used Valvo EL12 + RCA 6SN7 GT (newest smoked glass style) then EL12 + EL3N (single tubes), the former is very impressive and refined in a neutral and robost way, while the ladder is darker suitable for slightly brigher recordings. Now putting in the TFL EL12 Spez + RCA 6SN7 GT (newest smoked glass style) is what inspired the above description, of which is my best combo so far.
  
 I was able to eliminate the external white wires from my makeshift method of fixing the enormous buzz from the EL12 Spez; without the white wires over the foil there was a loud hum (although a quieter one that with the Elise), so then by simply twisting the foil-wrapped anode wire to 'hug' the tube as it was before, the problem was resolved. However for some reason with the EL12 Spez + above mentioned 6SN7's I'm getting a sort of semi-quiet squeel in one channel. 
  
 ... something that may be system dependent like relating to condition of the tube and that I'll likely find a solution to. Sorry recent life issues are still keeping me away from Head-Fi except occasionally. But the Euforia makes me feel quite great too.


----------



## mordy

Hi attmci,
  
 Problem is that some of the tubes I have suddenly come into the spotlight again - as an example my Sylvania chrome top 6SN7 that pair nicely with 6AS7/6080 tubes. Not ready to let them go yet.
  
 The majority of the tubes I have are inexpensive 6AK5 family tubes and there does not seem to be too much of a market for them ATM unless I am willing to sell for very little. Likewise with a bunch of 6080 tubes and 6DJ8 variants.
  
 My pair of  GEC 6AS7G seems to appreciate more than the stock market.....
  
 Somebody with the first name Lukasz in Poland is selling a new pair of of GEC 6AS7G for around $500 incl shipping:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-A1834-NOS-pair-2-tubes-/282423871895?hash=item41c1c64997:g:XZ4AAOSwU8hY5mS~
  
 Since I listen through speakers, instead of the Utopia, maybe I should spring for this:
  




  
 Wilson Alexandria XLF. If you want to know how much it costs, you cannot afford it......


----------



## DecentLevi

BTW the Euforia pairs famously with the Senn. HD-600's. Snappy / punchy, tonally correct, detailed and a grand soundstage, though I'm still on the fence with the HD-650 pairing which my seem too dark / un-detailed. The closed HP-100 (modded) is a great pairing too. 
  
 Though not on the Elise or Euforia, I've also tried all versions of the T1 including G2, A&K version and a heavily modded version, and with at least 5 different rigs. To me, none of the official versions are my taste being moderately thin and with a nominal soundstage, and comfort issues with my specific head shape. However this all changed when I tried the T1 + T5 mod, which is a mod from user @Packdemon with the T1 driver in the body of the closed T5 from Beyerdynamic, including several internal mods, also replaced earpads and a slight change on the heaband I believe. To me this brought the T1 to great new heights, showing it's best characer: very vivid, robust, weighty, punchy, detailed / fast and moderately lush, making it sound absolutely fantastic with all electronic and rock music I tested it with. He also gave it to Jude (HF owner) for a try at Can Jam, who was noticeably impressed with it as well! It was my 2nd favorite closed back I've ever tried, second to the Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow; though this unique mod being around $900 and the Ether C Flow being around $1,800 I'll have to hold off on those for now.
  
 Also at the meet with several visits to try Beyerdynamic's whole current line-up, I was mightily impressed with their new DT-1990, to me it sounded a hefty (maybe, say 40%?) better than the T1, with better mass to the low end and more neutral PrAT, vs. what I perceived to be a little too 'fast' / bright with the T1.
  
 Also I should update my above post on the EL12 Spez anode isolation - after trying them with another pair of 6SN7's the loud hum came back, so now both the foil wrap + thick 1-foot wires to knowhere are back in play. Will still consider the ferrite choke solution for this.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
 Here is a suggestion for a source of ferrite cores: $1.18 shipped for 5.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-3-5mm-Noise-Suppressor-EMI-RFI-Clip-Choke-Ferrite-Core-Cable-Filter-/172630972299?hash=item28319b978b:g:LzIAAOSw3ZRY9dcW


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Problem is that some of the tubes I have suddenly come into the spotlight again - as an example my Sylvania chrome top 6SN7 that pair nicely with 6AS7/6080 tubes. Not ready to let them go yet.
> 
> ...


 
 Well,  I think the headphone rolling is much more fun and effective than the tube rolling. 
  
 The GEC 6as7g can be obtained for less than $150 24hr ago,  but I don't need another one now. 
  
 I am not interested in XLF,  for now.  But I am pretty sure a lot of us here can afford a pair. 
  
 ttfn


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi myphone,
> 
> How many tubes do you have? I reckon that I have some 500 ATM, but I only use a few of them. And I need more - bemoaning the demise of the 99c stores on eBay.....
> 
> ...


 
 Mordy,
  
 I may have hundreds of tube, 6SN7,6DJ8, 6CG7/6FG7s,from pre-internet era, mainly Hamfest and local shops years ago. I have a second system (Audio Research that uses many 6DJ8s, 6CG7 and KT88). It was fun have toddler kids running around at Hamfest looking for specific tubes. I had life long supply of 12 SX7 when Atma-sphere amp was changed from 6SN7 to 12SN7. and Chinese 6AS7s from HongKong, DIYsupply. BTW, I have Atma-sphere MP3, which uses Chinese 12AT7 in Phono and 12AU7 and 6SN7 in line stage. I mostly play LPs, with electrostatic speakers Quad 989.
  
 Most of my 6SN7s were from 15-20 years ago before 12SX7. I found out yesterday that I had Sylvania 1952 Bad boy 6SN7 and 1958 TS 5998 sitting in DV336 i bought 11 years in basement. All my 5998s (Clear top and Chrome top) and 5998a were bought for DV336. BTW, I have never been able to get DV336 work to the level of satisfaction. 
  
 I have been using EarMax silver, Beyerdanynamic A1 and Sennheiser 600 before Euforia.
  
  
 Related to Euforia: I did get bunch of tubes a few months ago on Ebay after ordered Euforia. 7236 from USA and EF 80 and Russian 6AS7 (for A-S amp) from Europe.


----------



## mordy

Hi attmci,
  
 The price you quote for the GEC 6AS7 was for a single tube - the pairs go for around $400 recently.


----------



## mordy

Hi myphone,
  
 The TS 5998 should be a good investment if you bought them so long ago.


----------



## DecentLevi

In recent hours I've had the pleasure of using the Euforia as a pre-amp to my electrostatic rig (Koss ESP 950 with Stax SRM-1 MK2). I must declare the Euforia has unwavering excellence as a pre-amp, bringing sonic euphoria grander than I have ever experienced on this e-stat rig!!!! I honestly thought it wasn't technically possible to milk any more sonic juice as a preamp than the Elise, but this has done it hook, line and sinker! I'm getting a soundstage that seems almost endless, ability to handle seemingly infinite layers without losing distinction between them, and frequencies that must be be extending beyond my human hearing. Downright stunning for movies and sound-art!
  
 PS-  my new favorite combo is EL12 Spez (Telefunken) + Valvo EL12, or + TLF EL12.


----------



## hypnos1

oskari said:


> That's surprising. I don't know the brand that well.


 
  
 Shame on you, O...and there was I thinking you the fount of all knowledge lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But you are forgiven (this time!!), as Naim Audio are one of the top designers and manufacturers of hi-end gear here in the UK - and globally. Their kit isn't for the mass market, and as @Tunkejazz pointed out, it can indeed be rather OTT price-wise alas!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better value-for-money can normally be had from most of their products' competition (although there always is a premium for something 'special' of course!), but with this Uniticore one is obviously paying extra for the R&D work that must have gone into it....to be able to get such an amazing sound out of "just" a CD ripper/hard disk player/server/streamer can't come cheap, to be sure. And as I mentioned, this time it looks like they've costed it much better against the competition (especially those with SSD instead of ordinary HDD).
 This thing really does transform a system way beyond expectation - the sort of difference that has you feeling you could _never_ go back, once experienced...more so than _any_ amount of tube rolling, regardless of their (over-inflated!) prices IMHO!!!
  
 ps. How are those prayers coming along, mon ami?!!


----------



## hypnos1

decentlevi said:


> In recent hours I've had the pleasure of using the Euforia as a pre-amp to my electrostatic rig (Koss ESP 950 with Stax SRM-1 MK2). I must declare the Euforia has unwavering excellence as a pre-amp, bringing sonic euphoria grander than I have ever experienced on this e-stat rig!!!! I honestly thought it wasn't technically possible to milk any more sonic juice as a preamp than the Elise, but this has done it hook, line and sinker! I'm getting a soundstage that seems almost endless, ability to handle seemingly infinite layers without losing distinction between them, and frequencies that must be be extending beyond my human hearing. Downright stunning for movies and sound-art!
> 
> PS-  my new favorite combo is EL12 Spez (Telefunken) + Valvo EL12, or + TLF EL12.


 
  
 Glad you finally got your Euforia, DL..._and in one piece lol!!!_




  
 And glad you too are discovering this amp's prowess not only for headphone use, but also as a first rate pre-amp. Feliks-Audio have indeed pulled off yet another miracle with this product, just as they did (and still do!) with Elise. The higher price is definitely warranted IMHO.
  
 And glad too that your posts are rather more 'measured' (for want of a better word lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) now...I'm sure most folks will welcome, and respect, what you have to impart to us....CHEERS!...
  
 ps  Hope the ferrite chokes do the job for your Spezs...nice 'n neat has a lot going for it LOL!!


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> The price you quote for the GEC 6AS7 was for a single tube - the pairs go for around $400 recently.


There you go mordy, now you can have a full headphone amp to go with your GEC with a minimal surcharge on the original price! 
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-6AS7G-Telefunken-OTL-Tube-headphone-amp-Dubiel-HV-1-Special-Edition-OTL-/302283690507


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Shame on you, O...and there was I thinking you the fount of all knowledge lol! :wink_face: . But you are forgiven (this time!!), as Naim Audio are one of the top designers and manufacturers of hi-end gear here in the UK - and globally. Their kit isn't for the mass market, and as @Tunkejazz pointed out, it can indeed be rather OTT price-wise alas!!




They also make car audio systems for Bentley. There seems to be a delay with the delivery of my new Mulsanne.


----------



## mordy

Hi angpsi,
  
 I lucked out 'cause u can't tempt me - "doesn't post to the United States" lol........


----------



## svmusa

Got Mine this weekend, did not get a chance to really put it through its paces. I did listen for 15 min. with the supplied tubes and agree with everyone on micro details and is surely an end game product for me for a while... 

I informed Lukasz to perhaps add more packing to the backside of the unit, the shipping is rough and one of my RCA connector came little loose, It was easy to tighten it up and all is good.


----------



## connieflyer

Something a little different two harps,


----------



## UntilThen

svmusa said:


> Got Mine this weekend, did not get a chance to really put it through its paces. I did listen for 15 min. with the supplied tubes and agree with everyone on micro details and is surely an end game product for me for a while..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to hear favourable first impressions on Euforia's sonics....
  
 .... not so good about the packaging though. I'm sure FA will take note and improve upon it.


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> There you go @mordy, now you can have a full headphone amp to go with your GEC with a minimal surcharge on the original price!
> http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-6AS7G-Telefunken-OTL-Tube-headphone-amp-Dubiel-HV-1-Special-Edition-OTL-/302283690507


 
  
 Yikes ang....that looks one fabulous deal lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...those TFK ECC85s aren't cheap either (have a pair in my tube DAC, and they're even better than the gold pin/grid posts Tesla E88CCs!).
  


oskari said:


> *They also make car audio systems for Bentley.* There seems to be a delay with the delivery of my new Mulsanne.


 
  
 Funny you should mention that, O...was just about to enjoy a nice cuppa (freshly ground coffee, not Earl Grey at this time of day!), musing on that very fact and confirming the next choice of car..._*then I woke up!!*_





. Ah well, looks like _*I'm*_ the one who needs to get praying lol!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...(especially as I gazed upon my cup!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....
  

  
 (Have to keep staring at it, given my recent excesses LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 ps. Nice to see you're a man of _real_ taste, however...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


svmusa said:


> Got Mine this weekend, did not get a chance to really put it through its paces. I did listen for 15 min. with the supplied tubes and agree with everyone on micro details and is surely an end game product for me for a while..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Happy for you, svmusa...and glad you're liking her already - she'll get MUCH better yet with further burn-in, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I expect this will be end game for a VERY long while!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 Not _quite_ so happy about the packaging issue though - thought F-A had sorted that...especially given the long journeys they often have to endure. PLEASE inform them of this - they MUST beef it up even more, obviously....CHEERS!...and...ENJOY!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....CJ


----------



## UntilThen

Who is going to get a Meridian music server to compete with the Naim?


----------



## connieflyer

I am happy with the Sony Haps-1 so no Meridian for me.  I am still amazed at the fidelity of the Euforia, for the last few hours I have been using the K-R VT231'a and the CF Thompson 6080's these were the original tubes I used with the Elise, they sounded pretty good. In the Euforia, they sound much better than they ever did in the Elise. Better clarity and separtation.  Alison's voice is just great with these.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer. Are you having problems with a ghost in your house? Was your ill-fated paper amp inspired by a paper airplane you used to pilot?
  
 Edit:  Apologies. I should have listened to the song first.


----------



## connieflyer

No problem a turn of the word, is worth a, hmmmmm let's see, ahhh probably honorable mention!


----------



## hypnos1

untilthen said:


> Who is going to get a Meridian music server to compete with the Naim?


 
  
 My money's on the Naim, UT...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...(imaging and PRaT that are simply mind blowing lol! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## connieflyer

Well what do we think of the new look?


----------



## myphone

Found a very nice tube combo. National Union 6SN7GT+5998. Clear, clean, and smooth. Transparent yet relaxing. very nice with HD800, T1 AND HD650.


----------



## myphone




----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Well what do we think of the new look?



I don't like it - have the same sentiments as pct. I hate learning curves....

But, I know from experience that you get used to new things (although slowly, in my case). It seems to me that the pictures have more clarity and better color than before.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


>



National Union was a company that was bought by Tung Sol, maybe in 1954. Do you know the date of your tubes? It is possible that that they are made by Tung Sol under the NU name.


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> National Union was a company that was bought by Tung Sol, maybe in 1954. Do you know the date of your tubes? It is possible that that they are made by Tung Sol under the NU name.


Code on base: 5252.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Was just wondering if you got those new A/C cables and what your impression is.

I tried an old pair of higher grade patch cords that I acquired. These don't have a name on them, but they are gold plated and have a grounding wire and probably were made in the 80's. (I did not use the grounding wire - how do you use a grounding wire for RCA patch cords?)
Using one set for the line in to my Euforia seemed to made the bass a little fuller, but when i used a second set for the line out (using the Euforia as a preamp) the sound got duller and lost some of the HF sparkle - go figure.

And for you and pct, I just discovered a feature I like on the new format: The spell checker is much easier to use now, and the same as most email programs. If a word does not come out right you just right click and pick the right spelling from a pop up menu.


----------



## mordy

Also discovered that it is much easier to upload pictures, using the upload file feature. Here is a panoramic picture from my iPhone of a stream with a little waterfall taken a few days  ago.


----------



## myphone

I have TungSol Rabbit-ear 6SN7GT and Hytron 6SN7GT getting "heater on" treatment. Will try them out later this weekend.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Code on base: 5252.[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe December 1952, which probably means NU production
> We need Oskari to weigh in


----------



## UntilThen

I came on Head-Fi and was greeted with this photo. I really love this new website.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 27, 2017)

My single new Telefunken EL12 arrived yesterday from wege-high-fidelity. It's NOS and pairs perfectly with my existing Telefunken EL12. Have been listening with EL12N (drivers) and Telefunken EL12 (powers) and now I'm getting a very perfect sounding quad EL combo. Pitch black and quiet. These tubes are really on steroids. Full of energy and slam.


Oh well I can't post a picture of my Euforia with EL tubes. It won't load my picture file. It's too BIG.

Manage to do some editing and shrink the picture.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> My money's on the Naim, UT...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello H1.... I'm about to put my money on a pair of new GEC 6AS7G. 

Which of the many ebay pair do you recommend? 

Life's hard when you have choices.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Was just wondering if you got those new A/C cables and what your impression is.



Hi Mordy, I've no impression because the power cord never arrive. I waited 25 days then told the seller about it. He apologise and said that he will send it out again. After another 25 days, still no power cord. That's when I decide to cut the cord and get a refund.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well what do we think of the new look?



Getting a little familiar with the new format and don't hate it quite as much as I did. But officially I still hate it. Seems like a lot of complaints have to do with bugs and features that don't work properly, and presumably these will be fixed over time.

Main thing I miss (or can't find) is the Hot Thread page. I used to look at it occasionally to see what critical information was currently available that I needed to know about so I could continue enjoying listening to music   Also obviously I can't find the right Limoges (best term I could come up with using spell check) to use anymore.

And as far as I can see there is no indication of who is currently on the thread or even who is logged in. That makes it impossible to update the spreadsheet I maintain on the viewing habits of all of you. 

The biggest advantage I can see to the new look is that for the next day or two my wife is going to think I have found something more productive to do than hang out with my bulb family all day long.


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 27, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Hello H1.... I'm about to put my money on a pair of new GEC 6AS7G.
> 
> Which of the many ebay pair do you recommend?
> 
> Life's hard when you have choices.



Hi UT...very nice tubes (as you well know lol! - WINK!!), but don't pay too much for them! Prices do seem to be coming down to more reasonable levels though, and that pair from San Jose look good (ie. the readings)...still a bit pricey though IMHO! Will be interesting to see how the bidding goes for that single Marconi in a few days' time!! But good luck with your own quest, M...

As for the new look @connieflyer, mixed views at present...more slick/modern and yes @mordy, pics look better, but having to reset my password didn't immediately endear me LOL!!!...And I need FAR more smileys than I'm being offered here, I'm afraid! ...

And for those who may be slightly interested, after a day of my new Airlink Transformers Balanced Mains Power Supply (with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System) feeding everything (5 outlets), I must say I'm rather surprised at how it builds on the Naim Uniti Core's strengths.
Playing around with AC mains supply, and then adding (good!) filtering/conditioning does indeed appear to work some kind of magic on what in effect feeds the entire sound chain, and in ways I hadn't fully expected - in addition to the immediately obvious smoother, more dynamic and effortlessly controlled power delivery when called for, this unit 'polishes' the overall sound so as to open up the stage to more detail, while extending bass and treble quite markedly. Imaging is more precise, within an all-embracing soundstage that is truly holographic. And the icing on the cake - for me and the T1s - is that the increased smoothness of the entire frequency range (especially the top end!) is very beneficial indeed for these Beyers' occasional tendency to 'over-eagerness'...long listening sessions are now more 'relaxed' lol, without any sacrifice of the T1's wonderful air and spatial presentation.

I realise all these benefits haven't come cheap, but I for one do not now feel It's been money frivolously spent, by any means. My Euforia is now performing way beyond its earlier days, and my new acquisitions (before Hugo 2 even!!) have confirmed once and for all that I need not go hunting for another mistress...*ever!!* ...

I wish you all equal joy in your experience with this wonderful creation of Henryk Feliks...CHEERS!...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And as far as I can see there is no indication of who is currently on the thread or even who is logged in. That makes it impossible to update the spreadsheet I maintain on the viewing habits of all of you.



Yes I miss seeing who is online and on the thread. It's like talking to myself. Hello ....... is anyone here. 

As for the GEC 6as7g, I think I have seen the data spec for a near perfect pair of brown curvy base with near perfect boxes.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Also discovered that it is much easier to upload pictures, using the upload file feature. Here is a panoramic picture from my iPhone of a stream with a little waterfall taken a few days  ago.



A quote. How doest that work? Uploading photos... Not too easy  as it happens.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> A quote. How doest that work? Uploading photos... Not too easy  as it happens.



Easy. Just upload a file. Like this.


----------



## Oskari (Apr 28, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Easy. Just upload a file. Like this.



"The uploaded file is too large for the server to process."

Yes, thank you.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Code on base: 5252.
> 
> Maybe December 1952, which probably means NU production.



Yes. That seems plausible.


----------



## Oskari

Laura Pausini - Destinazione paradiso

Does this work?


----------



## Oskari

Apparently so. Who knows about the font sizes...


----------



## Oskari

_*Lara Fabian - Adagio *_


----------



## Oskari

How does this work? Does it actually work?


----------



## DecentLevi

The Euforia really comes alive to Samba music. Check out the track at 28:10
(sorry for the lossy copy but still sounds great)


----------



## drwlf (Apr 28, 2017)

Oskari said:


> "The uploaded file is too large for the server to process."
> 
> Yes, thank you.


https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/new-head-fi-update.845500/page-35#post-13456488
Here's to hoping.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Yes I miss seeing who is online and on the thread. It's like talking to myself. Hello ....... is anyone here.



No need to talk to yourself. You can talk to trees. Do you have trees in Australia?


----------



## pctazhp

We do have trees in the US. We also have wind, but we call it Maria


----------



## pctazhp

Just received notice from Lukasz that my Euforia will soon be shipping. So soon I won't be an unwelcome interloper on this thread. Will remain unwelcome I'm sure, but no longer illegitimate.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> Just received notice from Lukasz that my Euforia will soon be shipping. So soon I won't be an unwelcome interloper on this thread. Will remain unwelcome I'm sure, but no longer illegitimate.


Come on - you are always welcome!


----------



## Tunkejazz

Did you guys get an email confirming your purchase when you ordered your Euforia? No word from Feliks after I paid mine...


----------



## pctazhp

I paid through Paypal the balance of my order this morning. I sent Lukasz an email confirming my payment and he responded right away. I recommend that if you have any concerns you just email him directly.


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> How does this work? Does it actually work?




Works fine, O...thanks  - the visuals are now very good, but that's about all I can think positive to say alas...main gripes so far :
1. Every time I go to do something, I'm told "You need to be logged in to do that"...*I'm already screw*n logged in lol!!!...grrrr....*
2. Yeah, @pctazhp...no sign of anyone else/recent photos, reviews etc. etc.in the margin...just eff'in ads lol!!
3. No message box for 'likes'.
4. This 'quote' layout for replies sucks.
5. The more I look at it, the worse it gets, not _better!_
6. Not good for my blood pressure LOL!!!....Ciao, amico mio......GEEZ!!...and now my smiley won't come up!!! (Methinks my time posting here is going to be MUCH more limited now...sorry Lukasz!...)....CHEERS!...CJ



pctazhp said:


> We do have trees in the US. We also have wind, but we call it Maria
> 
> Hey pct...if that wind is as nice as the song, it can't be *all* bad, mon ami - the best number in the whole (wonderful!) film....for me, anyway...BIG SMILE!!!...(followed by ANGRY FACE!!!)...






pctazhp said:


> Just received notice from Lukasz that my Euforia will soon be shipping. So soon I won't be an unwelcome interloper on this thread. Will remain unwelcome I'm sure, but no longer illegitimate.



Hey P...methinks your sense of humour isn't fully understood by all lol!!...(WINK, WINK!)...but from one lost soul to another, your presence will be more like _welcome_ interloper/bad influence/hopeless reminiscer!!...and that's just for starters! - I'm sure @connieflyer can come up with a MUCH longer list!!! (WICKED SMILE!!!)...(But we love you nonetheless lol!...BFN...CJ)


----------



## Tunkejazz

You are right, I just sent an email to him.


----------



## Tunkejazz

BTW, I see a lot of talking about EL11, EL12 and EL12 spez. 
Are those power tubes? Any obvious sonic difference between them?
I guess all this has been answered in the Elise thread, but it is way too long to extract this info....


----------



## connieflyer

EL 11 are driver tubes and the EL 12 and 12 spez are power tubes also the EL 12N are power tubes that are inexpensive and readily available


----------



## UntilThen

Good news Pct. You are always welcome here. In fact you are now an office furniture here. So don't go away or I'll miss you. 

Happy to hear you're getting your Euforia ... soon.

Mine is burn in and sounding very good with EL12N as drivers and EL12 as power tubes. Have been using this for 2 days.... again. I've gone back to 6sn7 / 6as7 but with the arrival of another new Telefunken EL12, I'm back listening to El Capone again ! It's a great tone. @angpsi  will regret selling it.... 

@Tunkejazz  the EL tubes are versatile. You can use them as drivers or powers but they are probably best in the configurations that @connieflyer  stated above....

except my EL12N and EL12.... I like it this way because it's the only way I have  and also because I'm special.


----------



## UntilThen

I think we should sell all our Head-Fi gear and buy this Indian Scout from just $19.990.... and ride all the way to the Mexican border.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright I need to see who is online on this thread. No lurking please. If you are online, please put up your hands.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Alright I need to see who is online on this thread. No lurking please. If you are online, please put up your hands.


I put up my hands but nuttin' happened.......


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I put up my hands but nuttin' happened.......



Try shaking your butt now LOL....

Alright folks please be patient as the administrators of this site work on a smooth transition.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Alright I need to see who is online on this thread. No lurking please. If you are online, please put up your hands.



I'm here


----------



## connieflyer

In the Detroit area, it is not a good idea to ask people to put up their hands,  sometimes they come up with a loaded .45!


----------



## connieflyer

So how do you tell if someone is online now? Don't see a listing anywhere, something this are going to add maybe?


----------



## UntilThen

I can't upload a picture now. 

You can tell if someone is online when they post. So you have to post ....


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> So how do you tell if someone is online now? Don't see a listing anywhere, something this are going to add maybe?



I had Jude remove the feature so you'd stop spying on me. I guess you are out of luck, but I see ALL


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I can't upload a picture now.
> 
> You can tell if someone is online when they post. So you have to post ....



You don't even want to get me started. For example I might post something like this


----------



## UntilThen

No you didn't....



 

Picture works !!!


----------



## Spork67

Not loving the "new look" forum - but I've seen worse. Looks slick, but perhaps a little less user friendly - or perhaps I just have to re-learn my way around it.
Posting here, because I do enjoy this thread and vicariously the Euforia, but for some reason this thread had disappeared from my subscriptions. Will see if this post puts it back there.

Oh look - new forum has bacon! Can't be all bad.


----------



## UntilThen

Sporky, good to see you always !


----------



## Oskari

Does the blue top-left corner of one's icon indicate that one is online? Or is it something else?


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> Does the blue top-left corner of one's icon indicate that one is online? Or is it something else?



You may be on to something


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> EL 11 are driver tubes and the EL 12 and 12 spez are power tubes also the EL 12N are power tubes that are inexpensive and readily available


Thanks @connieflyer for the info. 

I have 2x6SN7 Ken-Rad and 2 x 6SN7 Silvania Bad Boys. I think I will give them a try before going all crazy with adapters. Did the stock power tubes work "fine" with your ken-Rad?


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Does the blue top-left corner of one's icon indicate that one is online? Or is it something else?



That's indicative of your mood. It shows blue if you're feeling blue. Try some rock songs and see the colour change.


----------



## Oskari

Let's try.


_Eppu Normaali: Kitara, taivas ja tähdet_


----------



## Oskari (Apr 29, 2017)

Nope. Still blue.


----------



## drwlf

Oskari said:


> Nope. Still blue.


I thought that was a symptom of listening to Eppu Normaali.


----------



## Oskari

drwlf said:


> I thought that was a symptom of listening to Eppu Normaali.



Lol. You are not wrong there but that was one of their cheerier ones. (It's all relative.)


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry for not getting back as I never got a notice, new software is still buggy, probably take awhile. When I first got my Elise, I used this combination and liked it. Try it for awhile before you start into other tube purchases, it did sound quite nice. 



Tunkejazz said:


> Thanks @connieflyer for the info.
> 
> I have 2x6SN7 Ken-Rad and 2 x 6SN7 Silvania Bad Boys. I think I will give them a try before going all crazy with adapters. Did the stock power tubes work "fine" with your ken-Rad?


----------



## mordy

On the bottom of the screen it looks like white worms moving on a black background - what is it?

If I saw that in my room I would step on it!


----------



## Oskari (Apr 30, 2017)

mordy said:


> On the bottom of the screen it looks like white worms moving on a black background - what is it?
> 
> If I saw that in my room I would step on it!




It's the snakes that you need to worry about in your snakepit. 

It's scrolling text that I find very difficult to read unless I zoom in.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,

No need to zoom in - just click on something that is scrolling and a screen comes up.
I clicked on the scrolling word Garbage, and an ad came up for earbuds that look like colored rocks.
It looks like anything you click on brings you to the same screen for earbuds.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Garbage



A rare example of an honest ad!


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## UntilThen

Tung Sol 6sn7gtb (1960s) and Tung Sol 5998 in Euforia now.

I'm done describing tube sound except to say that this combination hits all the sweet spots. It's really good.


----------



## connieflyer

How sweet is it? To what degree is it sweet compared to being salty?!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

for H1


----------



## connieflyer

Another for @hypnos1 only he can watch this !!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> How sweet is it? To what degree is it sweet compared to being salty?!!!!



Let me explain the sweet spot.

In golf, this is the sweet spot to hit the golf ball.



 

I'll have to find a picture of Euforia and those tubes' sweet spot.


----------



## connieflyer

Good one! Perfect explanation, nice use of graphic renderings to explain  the unexplanable!!!


----------



## aqsw

I'm very experienced with the whiffs. No such thing with the Euphoria though.


----------



## mordy

Ah, tube rolling.....

Have been soaking up good sound with the the EF86 tubes as drivers and the EL12N as power tubes. The only drawback (if you can call it that) is that I have to turn up the volume higher to get it loud enough.

The EF86 is being used as a triode strapped pentode in the Euforia. Come to think of it, I have a box of small signal tubes (AKA peanut tubes) that are dual triodes from the 6DJ8 family. Actually counted 20 of them. They were bought in the era of the 99c stores on eBay, and I did not pay much for any one of them. 

The most expensive is an Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 Made in Holland with a Tektronics label on it for $5. Tektronics was a high grade instrument and oscilloscope maker, and the tubes they used were specially selected and matched.

Then I have a quad of Voskhod 6N23P tubes  - these have been reviewed elsewhere on the Elise thread. The rest are a hodgepodge of "exotic" designations from mostly US makers: 6BC8, 6BS8 (such a designation would not happen today lol), 6BZ7, 6BQ7,6BQ7A, 6BZ8 and a tube from the Tung Sol space program - X155 (just kidding!). In this collection you could barely find a matched pair....

Paying $1 for a tube I don't expect too much, and a couple of them hum badly or sound bad; around 4 so far of the 20 tubes. But the rest really sound good with the EL12N - an airy, musical, detailed and fleet sound.

So far these are initial impressions trying the 6DJ8/EC88, 6BQ7 and 6BC8 tubes. I am going to go through the rest of them to see if I can come up with not only differences but winners.






Have fun!


----------



## UntilThen

H1, don't stop at the Naim music streamer. Add this Naim CD555 Multibit player with separate power supply for US$28,000.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I'm very experienced with the whiffs. No such thing with the Euphoria though.



I thought you're a slice expert. 

You're right. With Euforia, it's all about the sweet spot.


----------



## UntilThen (May 3, 2017)

mordy said:


> Ah, tube rolling.....
> 
> Have been soaking up good sound with the the EF86 tubes as drivers and the EL12N as power tubes. The only drawback (if you can call it that) is that I have to turn up the volume higher to get it loud enough.



I'm glad you think EF86 sounds good too with EL12N. So it's not a figment of my imagination. EF86 somehow has less gain on Euforia. Try EF80. More gain and cheaper. It's a win win. 

EL12N is a real gem. For the price, it's a frigging good power tube. Sounds good as a driver too.

I have no such luck with EL12 though. My latest acquisition of a single Telefunken EL12 NOS at EUR83.90 died after barely 4 hours of listening. 4 blissful hours when it sounded very good paired with my other Telefunken EL12 as power tubes and EL12N as drivers.

This tube (along with my other EL12s) were purchased from WEGE-High-Fidelity. It died in the middle of a song and the light went out. No sound and light from that channel. I can't remember the song but it could have been 'Stairway to heaven' by Led Zeppelin. The tube was advertised as NOS and guaranteed. It didn't look that new to me to be honest.

So whilst I can heartily recommend EL12N because it's cheap and good, I can't really say the same about EL11 and EL12.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I'm glad you think EF86 sounds good too with EL12N. So it's not a *figment* of my imagination. EF86 somehow has less gain on Euforia. Try EF80. More gain and cheaper. It's a win win.
> 
> EL12N is a real gem. For the price, it's a frigging good power tube. Sounds good as a driver too.
> 
> ...



Maybe it's a "filament" of your imagination 

I assume that with all the business you have done with WEGE and your previous recommendations of him, he will gladly take care of you and refund you money without any problem.


----------



## mordy (May 3, 2017)

Hi UT,

Using the EF80 seems to necessitate another adapter for $25/pair shipped. If the EF80 does not sound superior I'll wait until the tube rolling bug bites me again....

Since I have the necessary adapters already for using 6DJ8 type tubes, I tried various iterations as mentioned above. They sound good to very good (especially the Sylvania versions), but I think I prefer the EF86 tubes. 

If you have the right adapters for 6DJ8 type tubes to 6SN7, the 6BQ7 is still available from numerous eBay sellers, sometimes as low as $1/tube shipped (!) if you buy five.

Ordered a couple of Philips EF86 so in a week or two I should be able to listen to them and compare with the Svetlanas.

Re your problems with the EL12 tubes I got one that was DOA and one that died after a short time (got credit fro both). I have two pairs that work - one is a Valvo where one tube hums unless I wrap it in aluminum foil; the other is a pair of Tungsram that behaves but have a darkish tone.
Without a doubt, the way to go is to use the EL12N which is easy to find and not expensive. It does not seem to matter when they were made or the name on them; they all seem to be the same. Even though they may sound slightly different than the EL12 tubes, IMHO they are just as good as the EL12 tubes. (Have not heard the EL12 Spezial - ATM I have developed an allergy to the cost of adapters lol. Not to mention the wait to receive them....

Re EL11 I probably have a dozen from various manufacturers that all behave, except for that I had to re-glue the bases on several of them.
It seems that the glue on these 60-70 year old tubes becomes brittle. When you forget to only hold the tube by the base instead by the glass envelope when you remove them from the sockets, the glue bond may give out. Anyhow, an easy fix with a little crazy glue brushed on into the space between the glass envelope and the socket.


----------



## connieflyer

I have not purchased anything from WEGE-High-Fidelity but in the interest of customer service and the fact you had others from them I would certainly expect them to honor their commitment.  If they do not please let us know, as I won't deal with sellers that do not honor their guaranty.  Hope you have smooth transaction, you certainly have spent enough on return shipping, that in itself is rediculous.  I will check back with you in a few days and see what you have heard from them.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> ATM I have developed an allergy to the cost of adapters lol. Not to mention the wait to receive them....



Tell me about it. Today I received one (1) replacement EF86 adapter for the two (2) that I had problems with.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, I've too many adapters. Could start a museum now. So no more adapters for me.

I have 5 RCA 6BQ7 and I've tried them with 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapters in Elise but the hum is really loud. I think I could not get the tubes to sit in the adapters properly. Have not tried it in Euforia yet. I'm abstaining from too much too rolling in Euforia. Also have the 6N23P using ECC88 to 6SN7 adapters. I'm just not rolling these tubes now. Even the 6N7G and 6A6. Not even using my ECC31 or my C3G.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I have not purchased anything from WEGE-High-Fidelity but in the interest of customer service and the fact you had others from them I would certainly expect them to honor their commitment.  If they do not please let us know, as I won't deal with sellers that do not honor their guaranty.  Hope you have smooth transaction, you certainly have spent enough on return shipping, that in itself is rediculous.  I will check back with you in a few days and see what you have heard from them.



Thanks CF, I'll share my experience here when it's over. It's now in the hands of eBay admin.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Tell me about it. Today I received one (1) replacement EF86 adapter for the two (2) that I had problems with.



Hi Oskari,

I would not settle for one replacement if I had problems with two of them - contact the seller again. I only had problems with one of them that had the inside socket mounted at an angle, making the tube look like the leaning tower of Pisa.
Received another one after some verbal wrangling.....


----------



## canthearyou

I'm pretty confident that I'll be picking one of these up come fall of this year. I really like the looks of it. Plus, all the positive things I've read on it.
I was gonna save a bit of money and pick up an Elise, but I think I'll be better off getting the one I want.


----------



## UntilThen

canthearyou said:


> I'm pretty confident that I'll be picking one of these up come fall of this year. I really like the looks of it. Plus, all the positive things I've read on it.
> I was gonna save a bit of money and pick up an Elise, but I think I'll be better off getting the one I want.



Nothing beats listening to the magic of Mark Knopfler's guitar works at the end of a working day. Euforia and HD650 just sounds so good together. Swap to T1 and hear more sparkles. It euphonic and euphoria. Get this tube amp.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I saw him live in 2007 here in Stockholm and the concert was simply amazing. We got first row seats


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning @pctazhp and @UntilThen I see you are online, so wanted to greet you!
 That is all I have to say


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Good morning @pctazhp and @UntilThen I see you are online, so wanted to greet you!
> That is all I have to say



Good morning young man )))  Drinking my morning coffee and trying to think of something valuable to contribute. So far, no luck ))))


----------



## connieflyer

I guess the blue square in the corner of the icon does tell if someone is on line but it only does helps if you are all posting and on the same page.  It was far better when you could scan the right column and see who was online instead of hit or miss or paging back till you can see if anyone is here.  This thing looks doomed.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I guess the blue square in the corner of the icon does tell if someone is on line but it only does helps if you are all posting and on the same page.  It was far better when you could scan the right column and see who was online instead of hit or miss or paging back till you can see if anyone is here.  This thing looks doomed.



Plus, at least this morning, it seems if I don't post anything or keep switching to different threads after a few minutes I get logged out. I'm afraid "doomed" may be the word.


----------



## UntilThen

Good evening my friends. Let me take you down memory lane with Bob Dylan and Paul Simon's Sound of Silence. Love this picture of Joan Baez and Bob Dylan.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> *Good evening* my friends. Let me take you down memory lane with Bob Dylan and Paul Simon's Sound of Silence. Love this picture of Joan Baez and Bob Dylan.




You obviously don't understand that Scottsdale is the center of the universe and it's morning here. But thanks for the Sound of Silence. Love it. Plus I'm the only one awake here and I am enjoying my own sounds of silence


----------



## UntilThen (May 4, 2017)

Sennheiser will launch a new headphone amp and DAC called the HDV 820 - fully balanced.

You think it will cost $598? That's all I'm paying for the Denafrips Ares. 

Should I hold off on the HD800? Will there be a new flagship headphone from Sennheiser? HD900?


----------



## UntilThen

Ha !  Did you see this? Red and black.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Sennheiser will launch a new headphone amp and DAC called the HDV 820 - fully balanced.
> 
> You think it will cost $598? That's all I'm paying for the Denafrips Ares.
> 
> Should I hold off on the HD800? Will there be a new flagship headphone from Sennheiser? HD900?



UMMMM Combined cost of Aires and Euforia I believe is at least $1,900 which may be closer to the HDV820. I think you may be waiting a while for HD900, as Senn isn't exactly the new-model-every-year kind of company. I think that the HDV820 has been under development for quite a while.

But I think you should buy everything possible so we can live vicariously through you!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

My r2r deck is almost completed. You can live vicariously through me when I give a review of it.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> My r2r deck is almost completed. You can live vicariously through me when I give a review of it.



You're my man )))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> UMMMM Combined cost of Aires and Euforia I believe is at least $1,900



Holy... this hobby is getting expensive and we have not even factor in the Naim and Hugo. How does H1 do it? Has he been breeding goldfishes? 

We have not even count the cost of HiFi fuse, Supersonic cables, liquid cooling, etc etc.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Holy... this hobby is getting expensive and we have not even factor in the Naim and Hugo. How does H1 do it? Has he been breeding goldfishes?
> 
> We have not even count the cost of HiFi fuse, Supersonic cables, liquid cooling, etc etc.



H1 is a member of the British aristocracy. 

As for me, I think this bears repeating. I'm like the man in San Francisco who made a modest income driving trolley cars. As you may remember, he was falsely accused of murder and sentenced to death. When he was strapped into the electric chair they shot the voltage as high as they could but he wouldn't die. They had forgotten he was a poor conductor.


----------



## pctazhp

OK. Before I get booted out of here, I'd better say something about tubes. This morning I'm vicariously sipping my coffee sitting on UT's deck, and in real life listening to TS6SN7-GTB/Bendix slotted plate 6080. Wonderful combination. There are many combos that are great with Elise. I assume Euforia will be no different.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Plus, at least this morning, it seems if I don't post anything or keep switching to different threads after a few minutes I get logged out.



Checking _Stay logged in_ when you log in could help. (That probably sets a cookie until you log out.)


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I would not settle for one replacement if I had problems with two of them - contact the seller again.



Yes, I will.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> OK. Before I get booted out of here, I'd better say something about tubes. This morning I'm vicariously sipping my coffee sitting on UT's deck, and in real life listening to TS6SN7-GTB/Bendix slotted plate 6080. Wonderful combination. There are many combos that are great with Elise. I assume Euforia will be no different.



That should sound good. I'll try it tonight. Sylvania 6sn7w are still not here !


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> That should sound good. I'll try it tonight. Sylvania 6sn7w are still not here !



Will be anxious to hear what you think of the Sylvaniia 6SN7Ws. They are supposed to be very good.


----------



## connieflyer

When I finally get an update notification which is not very often click on view the thread it goes back to page one and then you have to login before it goes to the current notification this thing is pitiful


----------



## drwlf

connieflyer said:


> When I finally get an update notification which is not very often click on view the thread it goes back to page one and then you have to login before it goes to the current notification this thing is pitiful


Just favorite https://www.head-fi.org/f/watched/threads/all
refresh via F5 and click the tiny (why does it have to be so tiny), blue dot to jump to the first unread message.


----------



## Oskari

It seems to me that the new site has a session timeout feature that logs one out due to inactivity. See:


Oskari said:


> Checking *Stay logged in* when you log in could help. (That probably sets a cookie until you log out.)


----------



## UntilThen

Tidal HiFi through Audirvana Plus 3 is mountain top experience.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks drwlf just tried that, same problem, have to log in to view the post, did that, tiny spot, went to thread. Way to many things just to read post.  Also if you read on phone, you see whole page, so small have to zoom in on sections to be able to see what to clik on, old form email was so superior.   If you get logged out due to inactivity, there won't be anyone left showing up here.  The simple addition of WHO is currently online worked well.  Losing interest fast.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Thanks drwlf just tried that, same problem, have to log in to view the post, did that, tiny spot, went to thread. Way to many things just to read post.  Also if you read on phone, you see whole page, so small have to zoom in on sections to be able to see what to clik on, old form email was so superior.   If you get logged out due to inactivity, there won't be anyone left showing up here.  *The simple addition of WHO is currently online worked well.  Losing interest fast.*



Yeah. It's a bummer. But don't lose interest too fast. This song is for you. I'm hoping that at least the video part will get your attention


----------



## richard89 (May 6, 2017)

Alright guys. I'm seriously considering the Euforia and have put up my Elise for sale. I've been reading the reviews on here and so far I'm impressed. I like and enjoy the Elise, it's smooth, has good space for instruments, has good sound stage. However my main gripe is that the sub bass and bass in general is not as prominent as I would like. Is this portion improved the Euforia? I'd be fine with just the Elise, but I am looking to upgrade, and just don't know if I'll be satisfied bass-wise.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Richard,

Euforia has just about more of everything than Elise. That does not make Elise a lesser amp but it's just that Euforia is better at resolving details, better micro dynamics and quality bass. That last point is important. Euforia's bass is more prominent and extends lower than Elise but that does not turn Euforia into a bass machine. Euforia (as is Elise) is more linear in the frequency spectrum. That is how I like my amp.

Bass can be amplified by the choice of headphone, tubes and source (be it turntable cartridges or DACs).

Euforia is good enough for me. I can now turn my attention to a better DAC and possibly a HD800. I'm now looking at the Schitt's multibit DAC. Gumby or Yggy. Or even newcomer Denafrips Ares r2r dac. Gumby looks to be the sweet spot, great recommendations too.


----------



## richard89

Hey UT,

Thanks for your response. Sound stage is also something that I like very much. How would you describe the sound stage of the Euforia? I like the Elise's presence of sound stage, does the Euforia improve with regard to the macro dynamics and detail in the soundstage as well?


----------



## UntilThen

If you like Elise soundstage, Euforia will only please you more. It's uncanny that Euforia's soundstage is even wider and deeper than Elise. Not by much but noticeable. 

I'll be honest with you though. La Figaro 339's soundstage is wider but this is Euforia's thread ..... 

If soundstage is important to you, get the HD800 or the T1.


----------



## Tunkejazz

@richard89, I was considering buying an Elise, but then I came across this thread and I read precisely some comments about the bass section and (better?) "dynamism" that made me choose the Euforia instead of the Elise. Of course, the extra price tag was not fun for my wallet. Apparently I will get my unit by the end of May. Unfortunately I cannot say much more than that: I came to a similar conclusion as you did by skimming the information in this thread 

I will keep my Ember in the office though, it is a great unobtrusive amp and I have quite some tubes for it. Euforia will be at home.


----------



## Tunkejazz

By the way...has anyone found the good old feature "search this thread" in this new non-sense GUI?


----------



## richard89

@UntilThen I can't wait to get my hands on it. Elise is something already impressive to me, but 'better' bass is definitely something I'm keen on at the moment, and just an upgrade in general.

@Tunkejazz I'm definitely excited to get my hands on Euforia as well. Skimming through the thread though, I just couldn't find that review that spoke of the Euforia's bass to my satisfaction. I was hoping to read something like "extends like never before". But hey, an upgrade is an upgrade, and it's what I'm looking to do.


----------



## richard89 (May 6, 2017)

On that same note, the Mullard 6080's in the Elise are something special, never heard anything like it before.


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> Yeah. It's a bummer. But don't lose interest too fast. This song is for you. I'm hoping that at least the video part will get your attention



I must be getting old, I would rather watch the warm glow of the tubes at night! She seems to like looking at herself more than I.  Still hanging around, but not as much as before. Will give it a little more time, but quite frankly I don't care for it at all.  Seems very cold and impersonal. YMMV


----------



## MIKELAP

Tunkejazz said:


> By the way...has anyone found the good old feature "search this thread" in this new non-sense GUI?


https://www.head-fi.org/f/search/


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I must be getting old, I would rather watch the warm glow of the tubes at night! She seems to like looking at herself more than I.  Still hanging around, but not as much as before. Will give it a little more time, *but quite frankly I don't care for it at all.*  Seems very cold and impersonal. YMMV



Would you say this sums up your feelings about this site?



But remember, without you the rest of us are Scarlett, left crying. We'll find a way to get you back!!!


----------



## connieflyer

That about sums it up!


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> @UntilThen I can't wait to get my hands on it. Elise is something already impressive to me, but 'better' bass is definitely something I'm keen on at the moment, and just an upgrade in general.
> 
> *I was hoping to read something like "extends like never before"*. But hey, an upgrade is an upgrade, and it's what I'm looking to do.



We don't do that here. Our responses are more restraint. 

One example of a prominent bass was with a HiFiMan HE500 and Euforia at the Meet. There I hear strong bass, enough to stoke your ego but invariably you loose the top end clarity that you can only get with a HD800 or T1. It's interesting. I was there with Focal Utopia, HD800, Sony MDR Z1R, Oppo PM1, HE500, Mr Speakers Ether C Flow. You get a different sound signature with each of those headphones and Euforia. I could probably enjoy any of those headphones but the Utopia and HD800 are the ones that stood out for me. The bass quality and quantity varies obviously with those headphones.


----------



## richard89

@pctazhp I was born in the early 90's pctazhp and I went back in time and revisited the genre of 90's R&B with that single song suggestion of Officially Missing You. Thanks for that.


----------



## richard89 (May 6, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> We don't do that here. Our responses are more restraint.
> 
> One example of a prominent bass was with a HiFiMan HE500 and Euforia at the Meet. There I hear strong bass, enough to stoke your ego but invariably you loose the top end clarity that you can only get with a HD800 or T1. It's interesting. I was there with Focal Utopia, HD800, Sony MDR Z1R, Oppo PM1, HE500, Mr Speakers Ether C Flow. You get a different sound signature with each of those headphones and Euforia. I could probably enjoy any of those headphones but the Utopia and HD800 are the ones that stood out for me. The bass quality and quantity varies obviously with those headphones.



Hey you know I never got a chance to get my hands on the T1 to try it out on the Elise. My go to has been the HD 650 because I sold my TH-X00 due to my liking the more balanced signature of the 650. Maybe I should just keep the Elise and find a T1. The only thing that scares me is my sensitivity to treble, and I found that the HD 650 keeps the balance with a warmer signature. I do hope to find my end game in the Euforia though and expand from there. I was thinking about selling all my audio gear and just upgrading my computer to be a top tier gaming rig, but something about having good audio keeps pulling me, even though my wallet suffers.

I actually have a Schiit Modi Multibit right now as well, and was thinking about saving for the Yggy instead of the Euforia ;x. But having read that the Modi Multibit performed at ~90% of the Yggy, I'm deciding for the Euforia instead until I can make enough to get my hands on that juicy TOTL system.


----------



## UntilThen

This is for Mordy and JWT (sorry couldn't remember your sign on name) ... and Oskari too.

I do think that EF80 is a better fit for Elise / Euforia than EF86. Gain is as strong as any 6SN7 and it's much much cheaper. I could not detect anything that I don't like about the sound. It's a glorious tone. Clear and detail.

Here I have the Mullard EF80 from Langrex. It's a great tube and quite cheap. With Bendix 6080wb. The weighty tones of the Bendix blending with the clarity of the Mullard EF80.


----------



## UntilThen

richard89 said:


> Hey you know I never got a chance to get my hands on the T1 to try it out on the Elise. My go to has been the HD 650 because I sold my TH-X00 due to my liking the more balanced signature of the 650. Maybe I should just keep the Elise and find a T1. The only thing that scares me is my sensitivity to treble, and I found that the HD 650 keeps the balance with a warmer signature. I do hope to find my end game in the Euforia though and expand from there. I was thinking about selling all my audio gear and just upgrading my computer to be a top tier gaming rig, but something about having good audio keeps pulling me, even though my wallet suffers.
> 
> I actually have a Schiit Modi Multibit right now as well, and was thinking about saving for the Yggy instead of the Euforia ;x. But having read that the Modi Multibit performed at ~90% of the Yggy, I'm deciding for the Euforia instead until I can make enough to get my hands on that juicy TOTL system.



Not many people care to admit that HD650 still sounds very good, especially with a tube amp like Elise or Euforia. I modified my HD650 so that the tone is brighter, less warm and with a tauter and tighter bass. I am using my HD650 a lot lately. Great for listening to music. Nothing wrong there.

So what is end game. It doesn't have to be a wallet draining exercise. You decide when it's the end. 

Gumby DAC > Euforia > HD650 or T1 or HD800.  You can call it end game and get yourself a good gaming PC. 

Ok I put Gumby there but it could be other good DACs too. If you think of a better DAC for that price let me know.


----------



## richard89 (May 6, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Not many people care to admit that HD650 still sounds very good, especially with a tube amp like Elise or Euforia. I modified my HD650 so that the tone is brighter, less warm and with a tauter and tighter bass. I am using my HD650 a lot lately. Great for listening to music. Nothing wrong there.
> 
> So what is end game. It doesn't have to be a wallet draining exercise. You decide when it's the end.
> 
> ...



I actually like the HD 650 as it is, though it is missing some steam in the lower frequencies, it has a good balance at all ranges, what I'd consider neutral and linear.

Was actually going to search for comparisons between Gumby/Yggy, but I haven't been able to find the "Search this thread" function yet like @Tunkejazz. I actually tried to find it earlier but couldn't locate it. Actually a major disappointment.... how can users search for specifics? It just doesn't make sense to take that function away from the website.


----------



## UntilThen

For comparisons of Gumby vs Yggy, do the search on Google. You'll find quite a few.


----------



## richard89

And you're actually right @UntilThen, I'm actually pretty young and so my current setup is pretty good and a gaming rig should be my priority since I spend a lot of time gaming.


----------



## UntilThen

What kind of gaming... I need to know so I don't kill your char online. 

Btw HD800 is excellent for first person shooters. You hear everything. Even the enemies behind you. I don't play 1st person shooters though. Too old for that now.


----------



## richard89

UntilThen said:


> What kind of gaming... I need to know so I don't kill your char online.
> 
> Btw HD800 is excellent for first person shooters. You hear everything. Even the enemies behind you. I don't play 1st person shooters though. Too old for that now.



Mainly for FPS gaming and specifically for a new game called PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds - fun, but very CPU/GPU intensive and my GPU is rather old

Yeah the HD 800 or new pairs of headphones in general sound good... but I'd rather pair it with the Euforia than the Elise ;x.


----------



## pctazhp

My life is now complete. Schiit multibit DACs are finally being discussed on F-A threads. I don't even care that Bimby is being treated as the illegitimate son. I've just officially named my Bimby "Jon Snow".


----------



## UntilThen

It's Bambi and one day you will grow up into a magnificent deer.


----------



## UntilThen

Gungnir on the other hand is.... a spear !

Odin is the Norse Allfather of the Gods, riding on the 8 legged horse Sleipnir and welding the spear, Gungnir. Looks like it's more than a DAC.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Having started with the EF86 I am reluctant to switch to the EF80. Is there a difference in sound?
(I am not addressing gain and price ATM.)

Re the EF80, which makes are considered the best sounding ones? Could not find comparisons between the EF86 and EF80 except for that they are very different.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. I think I'm more of a Bamby kind of guy. Maybe in my next life I will be a Nordic God. Now you on the other hand, stride the world in a way even Zeus would envy !!!!


----------



## UntilThen (May 7, 2017)

Mordy, with price such as these Mullard EF80  from Langrex, there's good incentives to switch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF80-CV1376...824772?hash=item3d0b6eefc4:g:veIAAOSwAKxWaW52

If you go to the La Figaro 339 thread, they would prefer the EF86 over the EF80 but to my ears the EF80 sounds just as good. I'm not kidding you. Been running these tubes since morning with Bendix 6080wb.

I've both the Siemens and Mullard EF80. Both are good brands and equally good tone. I'd say the Mullard is a bit warmer. Try it.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen. I think I'm more of a Bamby kind of guy. Maybe in my next life I will be a Nordic God. Now you on the other hand, stride the world in a way even Zeus would envy !!!!



Man, Gumby has featured prominently in my mind for the last 2 days. Just about read every man and his dog's opinion on it. There's not a bad opinion so far. All good. Quite incredible right? 

Down side is it seems that some USB decrapifier will lift it even more. That's a new word for me - decrapifier lol.

It seems Schitt Wyrd is good for the Gumby but I should really consider BNC coaxial connection if I decide to go with Gumby. I think I should try all kinds of connections and find out for myself.


----------



## Tunkejazz (May 7, 2017)

richard89 said:


> Hey you know I never got a chance to get my hands on the T1 to try it out on the Elise. My go to has been the HD 650 because I sold my TH-X00 due to my liking the more balanced signature of the 650. Maybe I should just keep the Elise and find a T1. The only thing that scares me is my sensitivity to treble, and I found that the HD 650 keeps the balance with a warmer signature. I do hope to find my end game in the Euforia though and expand from there. I was thinking about selling all my audio gear and just upgrading my computer to be a top tier gaming rig, but something about having good audio keeps pulling me, even though my wallet suffers.



The HD650 are excellent headphones with a very flat frequency response overall except somewhat rolled subbass.

For example in my case...I am very sensitive to "peaks" in the frequency response in the upper part of the spectrum. HD800 are in many ways better, but they sadly are quite prominent around 10kHz. I tried them...clearly not for me. The HD650+Kameleon inline filter (just adds subbass) is very hard to beat for the price, at least they are tonally very good. In my opinion of course and given the type of music I like to listen too.

I guess I just want to say that if you like your HD650...then enjoy them and feel good about it!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, nice to see this threadz' still alive. Sorry if it's already been answered so feel free to post a link, but what was the negative on that Denafrips DAC? Or has it since warmed up to you? Thanks, @connieflyer


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Man, Gumby has featured prominently in my mind for the last 2 days. Just about read every man and his dog's opinion on it. There's not a bad opinion so far. All good. Quite incredible right?
> 
> Down side is it seems that some USB decrapifier will lift it even more. That's a new word for me - decrapifier lol.
> 
> It seems Schitt Wyrd is good for the Gumby but I should really consider BNC coaxial connection if I decide to go with Gumby. I think I should try all kinds of connections and find out for myself.



The issue of decrapifiers brings up an issue @DecentLevi tried to raise a while back. For reasons I gave then I am skeptical, but I've never tried one so I really don't know. I will say that I would be reluctant to spend a lot of money on them to deal with an issue I felt was not fully handled by Schiit in the Gumby. The money, it seems to me, might better be served applied toward acquisition of a Yiggy.

The main problem I've got with both Gumby and Yiggy is not with them but with me and the way my mind works. If I had a balanced DAC, and with that XLR cable sitting in my HD800S box untouched by human hands since it left the Senn factory, I would feel a duty to the world (or at least to my own obsessive-compulsive personality) to see how my system would sound with a balanced amp. And since I'm still waiting for my new Euforia to arrive that's a path I don't even want to think about right now.

Also, I'm equally skeptical about the benefit of balanced in the desktop setting as I am about the benefit of decrapifiers. And I also have to accept the fact that perfection in SQ will never be mine. I know that my 72-year old ears are not what they used to be, and that they are probably the main limiting factor or weak link in the chain from my PC Tidal HD to my brain.

BTW, if you do get the Gumby and feel that a coax connection would be better than good old-fashioned asynchronious USB, you might want to consider the ASUS soundcard that @connierflyer uses: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AULKMQJC8KN3W


----------



## richard89

Tunkejazz said:


> The HD650 are excellent headphones with a very flat frequency response overall except somewhat rolled subbass.
> 
> For example in my case...I am very sensitive to "peaks" in the frequency response in the upper part of the spectrum. HD800 are in many ways better, but they sadly are quite prominent around 10kHz. I tried them...clearly not for me. The HD650+Kameleon inline filter (just adds subbass) is very hard to beat for the price, at least they are tonally very good. In my opinion of course and given the type of music I like to listen too.
> 
> I guess I just want to say that if you like your HD650...then enjoy them and feel good about it!



Is it possible to use the Kameleon in the Euforia as well? Sounds like something I'd be interested in.


----------



## Tunkejazz (May 7, 2017)

richard89 said:


> Is it possible to use the Kameleon in the Euforia as well? Sounds like something I'd be interested in.



Umm, I don't want to hijack the thread (at all!) with this, so this will be my only post about Kameleon...

Sure you can use it with any DAC/AMP combo as long as they are connected via RCA cables. You just need to place it between your DAC and your amp (whichever brand they may be). So the chain would be:

DAC -> RCA cable -> Kameleon -> RCA cable -> Amp

If you are based in Europe, you may be able to source one from user tupisac (over diyah.boards.net) for 200 EUR including one filter module and external power supply.
http://diyah.boards.net/post/26270/thread

If you are in the US, the G1217 is probably the best option (more expensive though).

I just ordered my second Kameleon to use it with Euforia (from Tupisac). The effect, to my ears, is remarkable with the HD650 and HE400i. You can read about the effect of the filter on HD650 here:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd650/

I have read that the HD800 can be filtered nicely too:
http://diyah.boards.net/post/16854/thread

I have absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with the creators of these filters, I just find their effect quite remarkable in my system, in case you are interested. In my system, no tube change ever made such a difference in SQ as using the Kameleon, because it addresses particular issues that different headphones may have (like resonances, peaks,  early roll off and stuff like that).

Not a cheap option, but if you put it into perspective, most tube combos discussed in this thread are in the same ballpark


----------



## MIKELAP

UntilThen said:


> Man, Gumby has featured prominently in my mind for the last 2 days. Just about read every man and his dog's opinion on it. There's not a bad opinion so far. All good. Quite incredible right?
> 
> Down side is it seems that some USB decrapifier will lift it even more. That's a new word for me - decrapifier lol.
> 
> It seems Schitt Wyrd is good for the Gumby but I should really consider BNC coaxial connection if I decide to go with Gumby. I think I should try all kinds of connections and find out for myself.


 
I also made a choice last week i decided to with Gumby and Pokey. lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Good to know Mikey. Let us know how Gumby goes.


----------



## Liu Junyuan (May 7, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Mordy, with price such as these Mullard EF80  from Langrex, there's good incentives to switch.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF80-CV1376...824772?hash=item3d0b6eefc4:g:veIAAOSwAKxWaW52
> 
> If you go to the La Figaro 339 thread, they would prefer the EF86 over the EF80 but to my ears the EF80 sounds just as good. I'm not kidding you. Been running these tubes since morning with Bendix 6080wb.
> ...



I use the EF86 in the 339 all the time. I just have not got around to buying adapters to actually try the EF80 so cannot make any decisive conclusions. Some others before me said they preferred the EF86 to the EF80 but I remain curious.



UntilThen said:


> Man, Gumby has featured prominently in my mind for the last 2 days. Just about read every man and his dog's opinion on it. There's not a bad opinion so far. All good. Quite incredible right?
> 
> Down side is it seems that some USB decrapifier will lift it even more. That's a new word for me - decrapifier lol.
> 
> It seems Schitt Wyrd is good for the Gumby but I should really consider BNC coaxial connection if I decide to go with Gumby. I think I should try all kinds of connections and find out for myself.



I used to own the Gumby and now own the Yggy. The Gumby is nearly indistinguishable from the Yggy, with a touch more euphonic warmth than the Yggy. The Yggy also slams harder in the bass. I think the Gumby resolves just as much microdetail and conveys microdynamics pretty close to the Yggy, even if the Yggy is more reference level accurate in timbre.

As far as decrapifiers, I have some experience here as well. First, don't worry about at first. Work on the source later. If possible at some point, try to avoid USB altogether, or at the very least try to eventually get an affordable and quality DDC such as the Singxer devices (SU-1) that allow you to feed a USB signal into the Gumby's superior BNC input. This in itself is a great option. But what would be better is picking up a Lynx pci or pci-express card (which can be put in a Thunderbolt enclosure) in order to evade USB from the source to the DAC.

However, there is very solid evidence Schiit themselves (see Mike Moffat's blog) will soon release a highly price-competitive DDC-type device that _also_ allows one to evade USB output from source. Mike Moffat, the designer for Schiit's DACs, hates USB with a passion and repeatedly claims it is the worst input on his DACs, even if his DACs still sound great through them and are a great place to begin.

I would hold on to your NAD M51 instead of picking up the Denafrips. The Gumby may indeed be a more substantial upgrade. I am admittedly quite interested in the Danish Soekris DACs as well.

Responding to the comment about balanced outputs, the Gumby still sounds fantastic through the RCA outputs (that's what I predominately used) and is still better than the Bimby through them. I once owned a Jensen PC-2XR XLR/RCA transformer, which is what Eddie Current uses in their amps to allow for XLR output from the DAC, and I noticed a very marginal difference with the Gumby and Yggy to the point where I sold it. I am currently using the RCA outputs from the Yggy into the 339 and ZDS and feel absolutely zero qualms about it.

Sorry for the OT discussion, but I thought chiming in with the above might be helpful given the recent topic on DACs.

I am glad you are enjoying the EUFORIA; I wish I can hear it soon!


----------



## attmci

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-5#post_12051821



MIKELAP said:


> I also made a choice last week i decided to with Gumby and Pokey. lol.


----------



## mordy

Who is this audiophile?


----------



## pctazhp (May 7, 2017)

@attmci I don't think it is obvious what your link above refers to, so I'm taking the liberty of reposting it. 

A/B comparison between Gumby and Bimby: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-5#post_12051821. 

Of course, it's only a test conducted by 2 guys, but it does provide some information that some may find helpful. It's amazing you found it in a thread where such a comparison would not be expected.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> I use the EF86 in the 339 all the time. I just have not got around to buying adapters to actually try the EF80 so cannot make any decisive conclusions. Some others before me said they preferred the EF86 to the EF80 but I remain curious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LJ, thanks for responding. I was hoping you would and give your take on Gumby and Yggy. Good to hear from someone who has actual lengthy experience with them.

I don't have the NAD M51. It's the NAD d1050 that I have, hence I'm looking for an upgrade. I think you have just convince me to go for Gumby. Don't think I need the Yggy.

Based on your info on Mike Moffat's impending DDC, I might just hold off on those gadgets and use plain vanilla USB straight from the iMac or PC. I was toying about buying the Schiit Wyred or even the Singxer SU-1 but I will now wait and see what new DDC Schiit will produce.


----------



## richard89

Tunkejazz said:


> Umm, I don't want to hijack the thread (at all!) with this, so this will be my only post about Kameleon...
> 
> Sure you can use it with any DAC/AMP combo as long as they are connected via RCA cables. You just need to place it between your DAC and your amp (whichever brand they may be). So the chain would be:
> 
> ...



Will definitely look into. Thanks.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> LJ, thanks for responding. I was hoping you would and give your take on Gumby and Yggy. Good to hear from someone who has actual lengthy experience with them.
> 
> I don't have the NAD M51. It's the NAD d1050 that I have, hence I'm looking for an upgrade. I think you have just convince me to go for Gumby. Don't think I need the Yggy.
> 
> Based on your info on Mike Moffat's impending DDC, I might just hold off on those gadgets and use plain vanilla USB straight from the iMac or PC. I was toying about buying the Schiit Wyred or even the Singxer SU-1 but I will now wait and see what new DDC Schiit will produce.



If you buy Gumby I think that will make you the Leader of the Schiit Pack among Euforia owners, so congratulations 

I'm also keeping an outlook for the Schiit DDC. It seems to me that if Mike believes USB is such a bad input on his DACs that Schiit should come up with a way to deal with that for those of us who primarily get our music from sources like Tidal HD.


----------



## UntilThen

If I get a Gumby, I want no crap jokes. 

For all you know there already might be someone who owns Euforia with a Yggy. After all there is someone who owns Elise with a Metrum Pavane.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> If I get a Gumby, I want no ****e jokes.
> 
> *For all you know there already might be someone who owns Euforia with a Yggy.* After all there is someone who owns Elise with a Metrum Pavane.



One of life's great imponderables I may never know !!!


----------



## UntilThen

Death, taxes and upgrades are certainties in life. So it's ok if you blow a couple of hundred grands. Just put it on the tax returns.

Where did you start from in your head-fi system? For me it's this tiny thing that had a tube on it. This and my Beyer DT880 250 ohms. Still had the Aune.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Death, taxes and upgrades are certainties in life. So it's ok if you blow a couple of hundred grands. Just put it on the tax returns.
> 
> Where did you start from in your head-fi system? For me it's this tiny thing that had a tube on it. This and my Beyer DT880 250 ohms. Still had the Aune.



I also started with that Aune, along with a Senn HD598, and still have both. Next upgrade was this: https://smile.amazon.com/Bravo-Audi...494254938&sr=8-1&keywords=ocean+headphone+amp

Then Little Dot Mk IV SE, where I met H1, and the rest is history.


----------



## mordy

I started with the Little Dot MKIII after reading a review in Stereophile Magazine by Sam Tellig. I still have it, but one channel got fried by a shorted out tube (caused by a faulty adapter).
Found the Head Fi Little Dot thread and met a lot of great guys. Had a lot of fun modding and trying out many goofy tubes (in Oskari's language) and really learned a lot.
Once some of the guys moved up to the Elise, based on h1's recommendations, I followed, and bought Elise #9. And now I have moved up in life, and am the proud owner of Euforia #8.
The wild mods and Frankenstein set-ups are gone, replaced by truly great sounding 4-tube combinations, but I do miss those days of outrageous exploration, excitement and fun...... 
And on a philosophical note, I do notice that there is a movement now on this thread towards musical perfection with costs climbing fast. As far as I am concerned personally, I will stay with just musical enjoyment. I am happy with what I have - no doubt there is better, but what I have is good enough to thoroughly enjoy.


----------



## pctazhp

I would never begrudge anyone choosing to spend their own money on whatever brings them pleasure. But in audio there certainly can be significant expense coupled with a fair amount of risk. It is difficult to audition and compare different equipment at home (be it amps, power conditioners and reconditioners, DACs, decrapifiers, headphones and especially tubes), which for me is usually the only way I'm totally comfortable evaluating choices. 

I certainly remember the heady Frankenstein days - gone, not forgotten and (at least by me) not missed.

Sometimes improvements for me can occur unexpectedly based on what I read here. About a year ago I bought an Audioquest Jitterbug. For reasons I don't remember, it didn't stay in my system long. With talk here recently of "dirty" USB data, I inserted it back in between my PC and DAC. It does seem to clean up some grunge and provide a quieter background and better imaging, with a possible slight reduction in musicality but I can't be certain of that.


----------



## pctazhp

Just heard from Lukasz. My Euforia shipped last week and has arrived in New York. YAAAAAHY


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Pct. I remember my excitement waiting for it. Remember to be careful with the tubes. The sockets are really tight.


----------



## connieflyer

I started out with the Garage1217 Ember, with dual 7193 tubes and the Senheiser 380HDphones, changed to 6sn7 tube, liked that, bought Elise number 50 and Senn 650.700's then the 800, then bought Euforia number 5. I think I am good for awhile


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Pct. I remember my excitement waiting for it. Remember to be careful with the tubes. The sockets are really tight.



Thanks UT. The package is now in the hands of the US postal service. I just hope they don't decide to send it by way of the Panama Canal.

And thanks for reminder about the tubes. I had already forgotten about that.

PS. I see they have now eliminated the *All *and *Unread* thing from the upper right hand corner. Just great ((((


----------



## pctazhp

OK. So I see the *Subscribed Threads* up on the menu. It does take 2 clicks to see all subscribed threads, but no big deal. Can now search the thread through the search window. Good. Still can't see who is here, but maybe in the future.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> OK. So I see the *Subscribed Threads* up on the menu. It does take 2 clicks to see all subscribed threads, but no big deal. Can now search the thread through the search window. Good. Still can't see who is here, but maybe in the future.


Hi pct,

Congrats on your new amp! You'll have it shortly - my Elise is sitting silently in a corner since the Euforia arrived....


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Congrats on your new amp! You'll have it shortly - my Elise is sitting silently in a corner since the Euforia arrived....



Thanks Mordy. Latest tracking is it has left New York and headed to destination - namely me))) Hard to imagine my Elise going silent for longer than over night !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

Yesterday I mentioned I had inserted my AudioQuest Jitterbug back into my system. I'm usually extremely skeptical about things like this that smack of fairy dust, especially from a company like AudioQuest that charges such ridiculous prices for its top cables. Although the Jitterbug is only $50.

I was immediately impressed with the improvement, but wanted to wait a while before commenting on it more fully. Well, after a day I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the degree of improvement in SQ. The Jitterbug eliminates an impressive amount of grunge, garbage and noise - noise I wasn't even aware of.. Everything sounds so much cleaner and focused. Initially, I initially thought maybe it detracted slightly from musicality, but I've changed my mind on that. I hear no negative effects from Jitterbug.

I feel like I have a new DAC. A Bimby-Questy


----------



## connieflyer

I had the Dragonfly verson 2 for a few weeks and it made not difference on my pc at all.  So ymmv on these devices. Have not finished checking Essence audio card yet, almost, then will send.  I have not forgotten, just slow, busy, disinterested, you can pick the one that suits you best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Have had the PSvane stock tubes in for the last two weeks.  The sound very good, ran them with the EL12N and liked them much. Last night I went back to the El11 and EL12N combo, and realized why  I prefer this combo better. Just has more of everything.  Seems to be a fuller, richer soud.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I had the Dragonfly verson 2 for a few weeks and it made not difference on my pc at all.  So ymmv on these devices. Have not finished checking Essence audio card yet, almost, then will send.  I have not forgotten, just slow, busy, disinterested, you can pick the one that suits you best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I think the Dragonfly is a horse of different color and I don't plan to add it to my stable.

No hurry on the Essence. I'm not going anywhere, although my PC keeps threatening to shut down if has to work so hard to keep up with HeadFi changes.

For those breathlessly keeping up with my Euforia delivery it arrived at a Phoenix post office and already departed there. I hope that Phoenix and Scottsdale post offices are talking to each other these days.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct, we are waiting with abated breath on the arrival of your euphoria steam engine. Without analysing too much, Euforia has a very nice tube amp tone. Warm and lush with great clarity. I'm still running with Tung Sol 6sn7gtb 1960s and Bendix 6080wb.

HD800 is selling for AUD$1284 at https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sennheiser-hd800-audiophile-headphones. That's US$942. Incredible price for a new HD800. Time to get this iconic headphone. Yup iconic indeed, It's like the Sydney Harbour Bridge or the Empire State building.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Pct, we are waiting with abated breath on the arrival of your euphoria steam engine. Without analysing too much, Euforia has a very nice tube amp tone. Warm and lush with great clarity. I'm still running with Tung Sol 6sn7gtb 1960s and Bendix 6080wb.
> 
> HD800 is selling for AUD$1284 at https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sennheiser-hd800-audiophile-headphones. That's US$942. Incredible price for a new HD800. Time to get this iconic headphone. Yup iconic indeed, It's like the Sydney Harbour Bridge or the Empire State building.



EUFORIA HAS LANDED. EUFORIA HAS LANDED. Four days from F-A factory to me 

UT: From everything I know, HD800 and T1 will be unbeatable combination. You will be HeadFi Icon. Your exalted position will carry with it great responsibility


----------



## Oskari (May 9, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> EUFORIA HAS LANDED. EUFORIA HAS LANDED. Four days from F-A factory to me



That is incredibly fast!


----------



## pctazhp




----------



## Tunkejazz

pctazhp said:


>



What a beautiful glow!!! I am salivating


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> That is incredibly fast!



It was by EMS to New York, and then handed off to US Postal Service. I was able to track it all the way.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> It was by EMS to New York, and then handed off to US Postal Service. I was able to track it all the way.



EMS is the premium service offered by participating traditional post offices. Four (4) days is still quite unbelievable. Sometimes one is lucky!


----------



## UntilThen

Pct post your pic upright. It seems to have landed sideways. Anyway enjoy and come back with impressions.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


>



AWESOME, pct...and congrats. But 4 days?...you gotta be kidding lol!! Can't wait for your initial impressions...CHEERS!...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> AWESOME, pct...and congrats. But 4 days?...you gotta be kidding lol!! Can't wait for your initial impressions...CHEERS!...



It really was 4 days. I couldn't believe it myself. And it arrived around 10 AM this morning.

Initial impression:  Time and history can now stop. It's that good))) More to follow.


----------



## Oskari

_Har en drøm_


----------



## UntilThen

Pct my Euforia cannot stop time and history but it's rewriting them. 

I can't remember what my first impressions were ....


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Pct my Euforia cannot stop time and history but it's rewriting them.
> 
> I can't remember what my first impressions were ....



Good one UT )) I won't try to top it with a retort that only I would think clever.

I have written my initial impressions so I won't forget. But obviously I have a long way to go. Amp burn-in, but I don't remember if there is a recommended period. Then there's a number of tube combos I will want to try. Right now I running the Psvanes, which I'm not familiar with. I'll just say for now I really like it and am having a lot of fun listening.


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## connieflyer

Congratulations PCT on acquiring the newest headphone amp.  I totally agree with your summation about it, and also see that it is head and shoulders above the Elise. I was having second thoughts about selling off the Elise, but after hearing the Euforia for the first time, I felt I had made the right decision in selling the Elise. The Euforia is much improved and well worth the additional expense. With the price increase it is still worth it especially considering the raised the price of the Elise, to a point where I don't think it is good value any longer. I too felt that there was something lacking in the Elise and that was one of the motivating forces that led to the upgrade, and upgrade it is. Even the new tubes, the PSVane are quite nice. The EL's are still my favorites, they have more "body" than the stock tubes.  I think 50 hours burn in on the amp should get you a little more benefit.  Best of luck.  Glad it arrived without damage.


----------



## connieflyer

UT his picture is not sideways, that is what it looks like in his part of the country as he is on the curve of the planet!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Congratulations PCT on acquiring the newest headphone amp.  I totally agree with your summation about it, and also see that it is head and shoulders above the Elise. I was having second thoughts about selling off the Elise, but after hearing the Euforia for the first time, I felt I had made the right decision in selling the Elise. The Euforia is much improved and well worth the additional expense. With the price increase it is still worth it especially considering the raised the price of the Elise, to a point where I don't think it is good value any longer. I too felt that there was something lacking in the Elise and that was one of the motivating forces that led to the upgrade, and upgrade it is. Even the new tubes, the PSVane are quite nice. The EL's are still my favorites, they have more "body" than the stock tubes.  I think 50 hours burn in on the amp should get you a little more benefit.  Best of luck.  Glad it arrived without damage.





connieflyer said:


> UT his picture is not sideways, that is what it looks like in his part of the country as he is on the curve of the planet!



Sitting, standing or hanging by my toes from the ceiling, it sounds amazing!!!

Will be trying different tubes, but right now I feel like I don't want to change anything in fear of losing the magic. I know that sooner or later I'm going to have to come down from the ceiling for the obvious reasons of what one cannot do while hanging upside down.


----------



## UntilThen

Don't forget to change your signature. You are a different icon now.


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## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Sitting, standing or hanging by my toes from the ceiling, it sounds amazing!!!
> 
> *Will be trying different tubes, but right now I feel like I don't want to change anything in fear of losing the magic.* I know that sooner or later I'm going to have to come down from the ceiling for the obvious reasons of what one cannot do while hanging upside down.



No need to change. Those were the tubes I use at the Meet. It produces smoke on the water and fires in the sky. I'm referring to Psvane 6sn7 and GEC 6as7g.

However I'm very satisfied with Tung Sol 6sn7gtb 1960s vintage and Bendix 6080wb now. Have not change tubes in Euforia for many days now.

Also planning the next stage of my system upgrade while dealing with a retard ebay seller *wege-high-fidelity* - avoid this seller like the plague. Sold me a NOS tube - Telefunken EL12. It failed and died with no lights after 4 hours. Now he insist it's a failed filament. In which case there's no warranty. Also ask me to send the tube back to Germany for testing but now refused to pay for the return shipping. I reminded him that I bought several tubes from him in the past - a regular customer. He doesn't seem to care. Pure arrogance and rudeness in his reply. ebay will have to rule on this and they are going back and forth on this too. eBay admin even replied to me in German! What do they think? I'm a German?


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## connieflyer (May 10, 2017)

Most definitely write a review on his eBay page that is the first thing I check when I'm looking for anything is the seller's reputation and read some of the comments if I find a couple that are questionable I just move on to somebody else. Especially the fact that you bought tubes from him previously oh well there's no accounting for some people good luck UT


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> No need to change. Those were the tubes I use at the Meet. It produces smoke on the water and fires in the sky. I'm referring to Psvane 6sn7 and GEC 6as7g.
> 
> However I'm very satisfied with Tung Sol 6sn7gtb 1960s vintage and Bendix 6080wb now. Have not change tubes in Euforia for many days now.
> 
> Also planning the next stage of my system upgrade while dealing with a retard ebay seller *wege-high-fidelity* - avoid this seller like the plague. Sold me a NOS tube - Telefunken EL12. It failed and died with no lights after 4 hours. Now he insist it's a failed filament. In which case there's no warranty. Also ask me to send the tube back to Germany for testing but now refused to pay for the return shipping. I reminded him that I bought several tubes from him in the past - a regular customer. He doesn't seem to care. Pure arrogance and rudeness in his reply. ebay will have to rule on this and they are going back and forth on this too. eBay admin even replied to me in German! What do they think? I'm a German?



One of the best reasons not to change tubes is I love how the Psvane bottle tubes look with GEC6AS7G. Spent most the day at dentist and doctor (all routine) so I'm just starting my burn-in session for the day. Once I fire up Euforia so difficult to pull myself away from her I think it's going to be a very late evening.

Curses, curses, curses on *wege-high-fidelity* (((((((((((((((((

Edit PS. Thanks for the heads up on signature. Now up to date ))


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## UntilThen

Pct, signature looking good. This is very likely end game for most people.

When I'm done with my changes it will look similar to yours. 

Don't worry about wege. He's not worth a 2nd thought.


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> When I'm done with my changes it will look similar to yours.



I fell asleep last night at my desk listening to Euforia. That doesn’t happen often, but it has prompted me to post my early impressions of Euforia, because relaxation is much of what I experience the essence of Euforia to be. I’ll explain below. BTW the song I was listening to when I fell asleep was the Carpenter’s “Sometimes” which is a wonderful beddy-bye recording of piano and vocal.

First, I would say overall that if Bimby-Jitterbug-Euroria-HD800S were the first upper-end headphone system I had ever heard I might not be as impressed as I am. I might conclude that this is exactly how I would expect an upper-end system to sound. I would have no idea of how difficult it must have been for FA to achieve what it has with Euforia. Everything just sounds so right.

I am struck with the soundstage. I could try to use terms like expansive, focus and layering, but that wouldn’t adequately describe what I’m experiencing. While Elise did have good qualities of expansiveness, focus and layering, something just wasn’t totally right although I didn’t realize it pre-Euforia. With Euforia everything seems to have been pulled together and solidified in a way that makes it sound like a real soundstage, or even more appropriate it FEELS like a real soundstage or venue. Like Elise it is three dimensional, but beyond that instruments and vocals are also three dimensional, and they all unite in a coherent fashion to sound as if they all occupy the same venue in a convincing manner. It’s almost as if the soundstage of Elise causes a little dizziness, whereas Euforia permits relaxation and does not strain the brain to keep everything together and in focus.

In fact, the word “relaxed” is key to my initial impression of Euforia. And by relaxed, I don’t mean laid back or something like that. In fact, Euforia is quite dynamic and impactful. Rather, I mean that I can relax and not have to consciously or unconsciously exert any effort to experience what I’m hearing as natural and organic. Lack of fatigue with long term listening is one of Euforia's stunning qualities. With Euforia there is a total absence of strain with dynamic passages. It simply does not run out of steam when significant demands are placed on it. Euforia seems not to know the meaning of strain.

For me, Euforia’s tonal balance (at least with Psvanes/GECs) is perfect. It handles the entire frequency range with aplomb and neither emphasizes nor de-emphasizes any portion of the FR. Bass through the HD800S is outstanding. It is tight, deep and strong, but not intrusive on the rest of the frequency range. In fact, I don't ever remember the sensation of hearing bass notes defined and distinct as they are with Euforia. It is so easy to listen to Euforia that it quickly pulls me into the music without my even being conscious of how quickly I have become totally engaged.

I realize that I’ve made comparisons to Elise that seem critical of our old friend. We all know that Elise is special in its own right. But it would be unrealistic to expect that with the effort FA has put into developing Euforia for there to be no improvements.

If I had to liken my current headphone system with Euforia to speakers I either owned or heard back in my audiophile days, I would liken it to my Soundlab electrostatics. Perhaps that is because Euforia’s attack and decay is so fast. But I’m not sure, because those are qualities I’ve never been able to specifically identify. I just know that I love what I’m now hearing and always loved electrostatics in the past. I haven’t heard the Stax 009s, but I feel confident that my current setup is my endgame. It is the sum of choices I have made since getting into high-end headphones. Had I made any major different decisions along my journey that started over a year and a half ago, I might have arrived at a different endgame. But I don’t at all believe that such an alt-endgame would be bringing me any more musical enjoyment. I am very happy and excited))))

BTW, I don’t want to leave the impression that GE6AS7G is my favorite power tube. It simply is the only one I have tried so far with Euforia. I chose to start with it because I remember you liked it with the Psvanes and HD800 at the meet you recently attended.

I probably have at most 20 hours of burn-in time and a number of tube combos to try in the future. I don’t want to start experimenting with different tubes for a while because I want to try to keep track of changes, if any, that will occur with further amp burn-in, and I’m too busy enjoying listening to the current setup.


----------



## pctazhp

I like to say just a little more about Euforia midrange particularly with respect to vocals. Voices have "body" and "flesh". Very natural sounding. Euforia also provides impressive detail that brings out very subtle nuances.

With respect to treble, in the past when I experienced treble I liked I would say it "sparkled". While Euforia's treble may be described as "sparkle" I feel that term implies some degree of electronic artifact not present with Euforia. I think a better description for Euforia treble is airy, natural and effortless.

I also want to say special thanks to @hypnos1 for guidance he has given all of us on Euforia. Without him, I would not now own one.

I know participation on the FA threads has dropped considerably for whatever reason. But at least I have said what I wanted. I won't post further impressions unless burn-in or different tubes produce a significantly improved experience for me.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,

Glad you are enjoying the Euforia. In the past Lukasz recommended 150 hours  burn in for the Elise. I am just enjoying the Euforia and did not keep track on the hours during burn in, but it is possible that it requires fewer hours than the Elise for whatever reason.

The Euforia has more of everything.....


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I like to say just a little more about Euforia midrange particularly with respect to vocals. Voices have "body" and "flesh". Very natural sounding. Euforia also provides impressive detail that brings out very subtle nuances.
> 
> With respect to treble, in the past when I experienced treble I liked I would say it "sparkled". While Euforia's treble may be described as "sparkle" I feel that term implies some degree of electronic artifact not present with Euforia. I think a better description for Euforia treble is airy, natural and effortless.
> 
> ...



Hi pct.

Firstly, may I say thanks for _your_ thanks - it cheers me up no end to hear that I haven't led folks into a poor investment of their hard-earned cash lol! 
After others' glowing reports, your own early impressions really are the icing on the cake - they summarise perfectly what F-A (or, specifically, Pop Henryk) have achieved with this amp. It truly is a totally different amp to Elise, despite outward appearance! I can now fully understand why they chose NOT to call it 'Elise MK2' etc. - a sensible decision in the end IMHO (despite my early misgivings!!).

I - and everyone else, no doubt - can relate perfectly to your own particular 'gut-feeling-type' reactions to Euforia's sound presentation, and which convey much more than an endless string of more 'audiophile' terms...(even though I know you are more capable than most of us to actually assail us with same lol!! ). Everything just seems so 'right', and I personally cannot find _any_ real chinks in the armour, and have no desire whatsoever to even look at the competition...(not that I believe there's anything to match it anywhere near the price anyway!).

And it also pleases me to know you will be even _more_ impressed, with a good few more hours on her...(as with Elise, things do continue to improve even beyond the 50 hour mark! ...).

So I wish you - and all other new owners of this wonderful amp - continued enjoyment for many, many hours to come...and often at the expense of much-needed sleep, no doubt!!

ps. At the end of your main post, I think you meant *GEC *_6AS7G_*, *as opposed to _*GE?*_...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Glad you are enjoying the Euforia. In the past Lukasz recommended 150 hours  burn in for the Elise. I am just enjoying the Euforia and did not keep track on the hours during burn in, but it is possible that it requires fewer hours than the Elise for whatever reason.
> 
> The Euforia has more of everything.....



Hi mordy...you're absolutely right that Euforia doesn't seem to need quite as long a burn-in as Elise - I personally was wowed within the first few minutes lol! But I myself have indeed noticed gradual, subtle changes (for the better!) well beyond 50 hrs... but as usual, I'm sure a certain amount also depends on the rest of the system...

And spot on, with "more of everything"...no doubt about that!

ps. For me - as with yourself - our latest tubes bring more to my particular table. But they are in effect, IMHO, different _flavours..._Euforia's signature remains pretty well similar. I know we're talking serious money here, but a bigger leap in this amp's performance has definitely been boosted by the Naim Uniti Core (via pure silver coax, not USB, out to the DAC)...please excuse my repetition, but the difference is _that_ great lol! . Which if nothing else, just proves that this amp is capable of competing with some _really_ serious kit, given upgraded associated gear...


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Pct, I commend you on your first impressions. While most will give a one liner, you've been very detail describing your first experience with Euforia. It's best to collect your thoughts at the beginning because as time goes on, you'll just settle in to a comfortable listening joy with music using Euforia and the rest of your system.

On the subject of the rest of your system, I feel that Euforia deserves to have equally capable partnering source and headphone equipment. Get the synergy right and you will have a very nice sounding setup to enjoy to eternity.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> _*A thing of beauty, a joy forever.*_ That's the thought that cross my mind when I first lay my eyes on Euforia.
> 
> Not only in looks but in tone. 20 seconds into my first song, my mouth was ajar. Such clarity, such dynamics, it's really quite a different amp from Elise. The sound is captivating and it's running with stock tubes. I had to use my seasoned Svetlana 6h13c though because one of the power tube that came did not light up. Must have died of fright on the long and treacherous journey to Sydney.
> 
> ...



Ah this is what I wrote for my first impressions, followed by a bunch of photos of Euforia. 

Seems like a long time ago but those thoughts still hold true.


----------



## UntilThen (May 11, 2017)

On the continuing saga with wege-high-fidelity, this is ebay reply to me....

*As your trading partner does not want to refund you return shipping costs, you can report this matter to the police. My advice is to print out all the data concerning the transaction, such as the PayPal account number you wired the money to, the item description, as well as the item ID and the postal receipt. Both eBay and PayPal work closely with law enforcement agencies around the world and, whenever possible, we assist in investigations and prosecutions.*

They want me to press charges on the seller on my own. Incredible. As ebay admin, they have control on sellers. Recalcitrant sellers can be controlled. Simple as that.

Let's just say that I've wasted $100 over the tube plus shipping both ways. I'll wash my hands over it. However it will leave a bad impressions on the seller and ebay.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Hi Pct, I commend you on your first impressions. While most will give a one liner, you've been very detail describing your first experience with Euforia. It's best to collect your thoughts at the beginning because as time goes on, you'll just settle in to a comfortable listening joy with music using Euforia and the rest of your system.
> 
> *On the subject of the rest of your system, I feel that Euforia deserves to have equally capable partnering source and headphone equipment. Get the synergy right and you will have a very nice sounding setup to enjoy to eternity.*



I'm going to be watching to see if Schiit comes out with a DDC and/or new Bimby update. Will also be anxious to hear what you think if you get Gumby.

At this point it's:


----------



## UntilThen

In the last 2 days, a NAD M51 and a Denafrips Ares appeared on the www.stereo.net.au classifieds, both with a asking price of aussie $700. The Ares was sold within a day.

Tempted to try the M51 but I think it's time to try multibits. So I'm still inclined to go with Gumby and get a coaxial input to it.... or USB. 

Enjoy your Euforia, Burt !


----------



## Oskari

Here's the next episode on our Sissel channel.


_Sukiyaki_

(If you can't handle this, do post something else!)


----------



## connieflyer

well here we go again, this stupid forum is not sending notifications again.  When I log in to page i can see number of posts and also private messages at top.  Tried going into pm's to reread or delete them so they don't show up each time and I have to check and see only to see same pm's from two years ago moved to the top.  Can not delete any either. 
On other topic, checking on PSVane to see who they are and what they make, got this page hit, very interesting how they are described.  Formerly Shugy.  
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/who-is-psvane/


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> (If you can't handle this, do post something else!)



Oh why do people place temptation in front of me I can't resist.



This is a repeat but I don't think on this thread. Even if I've already posted it here, sue me


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## connieflyer

Please no more Sukiyaki heard that so many times when I was stationed in Japan it almost makes me up Chuck. LMAO


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> well here we go again, this stupid forum is not sending notifications again.  When I log in to page i can see number of posts and also private messages at top.  Tried going into pm's to reread or delete them so they don't show up each time and I have to check and see only to see same pm's from two years ago moved to the top.  Can not delete any either.
> On other topic, checking on PSVane to see who they are and what they make, got this page hit, very interesting how they are described.  Formerly Shugy.
> http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/who-is-psvane/



This site is Titanic and right now they are just rearranging the deck chairs.

So which formerly-called-Shugy tube did we get with Euforia.


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## connieflyer

Hard to say if you're read that article that I linked to they refer to it as the cheap average to the comes with tube amplifiers. But it sounds pretty good. Looked at those special globe 6sn7 that they have the only $375 a pair but they look really wjkd


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> In the last 2 days, a NAD M51 and a Denafrips Ares appeared on the www.stereo.net.au classifieds, both with a asking price of aussie $700. The Ares was sold within a day.
> 
> Tempted to try the M51 but I think it's time to try multibits. So I'm still inclined to go with Gumby and get a coaxial input to it.... or USB.
> 
> Enjoy your Euforia, Burt !



I'm going to take this final crack at discussing dance crazes of the '50s and this will be all on that subject. When I hooked up Euforia I left Jitterbug in the chain. This afternoon I briefly took it out. The grunge and garbage it had removed with Elise was back with Euforia. Nothing night and day, but noticeable. So for now it is part of my chain. My main point is to suggest that if you get Gumby I think you will benefit from a coax connection if you have some way to accomplish that. And this is why I'm hoping Schiit will come out with a DDC. If you decide to go straight USB you might want to consider trying Jitterbug. I now return you to our main program already in progress.

Point of interest. This afternoon there was a post on the main Schiit site about a possible upgrade to Bimby. I responded and said I had heard something about that. Both posts were quickly deleted.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Hard to say if you're read that article that I linked to they refer to it as the cheap average to the comes with tube amplifiers. But it sounds pretty good. Looked at those special globe 6sn7 that they have the only $375 a pair but they look really wjkd



That is really noble of you to order a pair of the globes so you can let us all know if they are worth it


----------



## attmci (May 11, 2017)

UT, Sorry for your loss from E-B. They made $$ from those so called PowerSeller:

"Sorry, you can't leave negative or neutral Feedback for this PowerSeller until 7 days after purchase.
In the mean time, please contact the seller to try to work things out."

The guy (desireme 1979) sold me a weak tube as NOS.


----------



## UntilThen

Attmci all contacts are done and over. It is now a war of words. Scumbags dirtbags etc etc are flowing freely.

The is a respond from the seller with pictures of my smashed up tube. I knew he would smash it up so he doesn't have to pay the cost. The tube was send back in the packaging it came. No way it would be so smashed up.

Bottom line beware buying on ebay especially so called power sellers. Power my ass.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm going to take this final crack at discussing dance crazes of the '50s and this will be all on that subject. When I hooked up Euforia I left Jitterbug in the chain. This afternoon I briefly took it out. The grunge and garbage it had removed with Elise was back with Euforia. Nothing night and day, but noticeable. So for now it is part of my chain. My main point is to suggest that if you get Gumby I think you will benefit from a coax connection if you have some way to accomplish that. And this is why I'm hoping Schiit will come out with a DDC. If you decide to go straight USB you might want to consider trying Jitterbug. I now return you to our main program already in progress.
> 
> Point of interest. This afternoon there was a post on the main Schiit site about a possible upgrade to Bimby. I responded and said I had heard something about that. Both posts were quickly deleted.



Perhaps I should consider a cheap Schiit Wyrd or Uptone Audio Regen Ember.


----------



## attmci




----------



## UntilThen

Well justice is about to be done. Just received a message from ebay.


_Thank you for your answer regarding the return of the tube. I really appreciate your patience in such a situation.

I would like to inform you that I have just reported your trading partner to our Security department. The specialists will investigate seller's account activity and take appropriate actions. Unfortunately I cannot give you more information about this process as it would be inconsistent with the eBay policies.

I wish you all the best for your future transactions. Have a pleasant weekend.

_
Bottom line is if you're unfairly treated by a seller, don't be afraid to keep firing emails at ebay. They will pay attention when they know you mean business.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Well justice is about to be done. Just received a message from ebay.
> 
> 
> _Thank you for your answer regarding the return of the tube. I really appreciate your patience in such a situation.
> ...


Hi UT, I'm really sorry about the trouble you got from Wege; we used to consider him a reputable seller, remember? Just taking this opportunity to say hi, activity in the Elise thread is kind of dead now that all of you guys migrated to Euforia. Personally I can't afford any upgrade whatsoever—I'm even questioning my capacity to have delved into that delirious EL buying spree in the first place, which also makes me question whether I might have been better off with an Espressivo as I originally intended!


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks angpsi but you don't have to feel sorry for me. UT can and will handle this. Life is not a bed of roses. Sometimes you have to deal with the thorns.

As for Elise, you should have no remorse or think it's better that you had bought the Expressivo. My Elise is in Poland for a refresh. If I didn't think it's good enough to keep, I wouldn't be doing that. When it comes back, I'll be on Elise thread again and will kick start that thread. 

Regarding EL tubes, if you have tubes that works and are not noisy, then they do sound lovely. No regrets buying and using them. However both Elise and Euforia sounds lovely with standard 6sn7 and 6as7 tubes too and so they should. I have since stop being too obsessive about tubes. As most have found out, these FA amps sounds amazing with almost all tubes.

If your setup sounds good to you, then don't feel pressured to upgrade. I have used my NAD d1050 for one and a half years. It's a gift from wife. If I had replaced that too soon, I'd be sleeping in the dog's house. Head-fi is not about how expensive your setup is. It's more about how much you enjoy your setup, be it budget, mid-range or Mercedes class.

There you go. Hope you feel better now.


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## angpsi (May 12, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> (...) My Elise is in Poland for a refresh. If I didn't think it's good enough to keep, I wouldn't be doing that. When it comes back, I'll be on Elise thread again and will kick start that thread.


Are you doing the parts upgrade coming from the updated version of the Elise? If yes, I'll definitely be on the lookout for your impressions.



UntilThen said:


> If your setup sounds good to you, then don't feel pressured to upgrade. (...) It's more about how much you enjoy your setup, be it budget, mid-range or Mercedes class.


Truth be told, I'm still negotiating my way to settling. The Mullards were definitely a relieving moment towards the right direction, and have given me my moments of audio bliss (as the ELs have given most of you guys). Nowadays I'm debating whether—or how much—a different pair of headphones might turn the cards around. Unfortunately I don't see myself finding my way to finance for a pair of Beyer T1 or the HD800 any time soon. I've been looking into designs that are in the same tier with the HD600 but I'm not sure how most of the prominent challengers may synergise with the Elise. I wonder if you had any experience in this regard; through my own research, it looks like most people just opt for the HD650, only I'm really interested to also look for different sound signatures altogether (mid-tier Beyers maybe?).

Finally there's the much discussed subject of DACs. So far I've been enjoying my Explorer 2 over USB, which is arguably better than the HiFimeDIY Sabre 9018 I used to play with. Haven't been able to test the Benchmark with the Elise because it involves moving the Elise to my home rig, which honestly is a bit of a pain. I wonder how / or whether the Schiit options may compare to the Explorer, but once again it becomes a question of lateral changes vs. upgrade.

Same conclusion then: maybe one's final setup needn't be a Mercedes class rig, but the whole venture of settling sure requires an expensive education!


----------



## UntilThen

Happy is the man who has a campervan and tours the countryside with it than the man who has a Mercedes and just keep it park in the garage. 

There are a few things you bring up there so I'll just address them one at a time.

My Elise refresh is just to bring it back to as new condition as it was on day one. Lukasz ask if I wanted Euforia's tube sockets for it and I said no - please don't !!  One amp with tight sockets is bad enough. Two will ruin my weekends forever.  I also had channel imbalance so that will be taken care of. Plus the PCB board is a bit sun-tanned in colour. I want it back to caramel colour again.

If you are on a budget, it's hard to beat HD600. However I'm more of a HD650 guy. Some say you don't hear the top end much with HD650. Well I don't need to hear all the trebly bits all the time. When I listen to Norah Jones, it's the mids I'm interested in. Mid range is king where vocals are concerned. If you're into classical, HD600 is a better choice. HD800 and T1 are when you want to hear more of everything and have the soundstage expanded beyond your ears. Headphones are very personal. That's why we have so many brands and models. Not everyone love the HD800 or T1. Some will bet their dog on the LCD2.2. So don't follow the trend. If an Apple earpad floats your boat, sing it. Ok that's taking it too far. You might get rocks thrown at you if you do that here in Head-Fi.

As for DACs... well I think you do know that in any music system, the source and the final chain of headphones or speakers are equally, if not more important. So yeah, you will get better results with a more capable DAC or turntable but at what price? That only an individual can decide, according to their own budget and personal taste.

Don't read too much into what's written. If possible, go to a Meet where you can sample various gear. Nothing like hearing for yourself. Except when you hear it from UT. 

Lastly, if you're already into Head-Fi, too bad you're already bitten by the bug. You itch to upgrade and hear better tone / equipment will be ongoing. But hey it's a good hobby. Where else would you spend your money on? On the race horse track? Or the casino? Or the pub? Or the ... ok won't go on.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Perhaps I should consider a cheap Schiit Wyrd or Uptone Audio Regen Ember.



I don't have experience with the Wyrd or Regen. Jitterbug is the only thing that goes between PC and DAC that I have tried, and I don't even remember why I decided to try the Jitterbug about a year ago. Initially I didn't like what it did, but a year later after my Elise had evolved to where it was (tube acquisitions) I tied it again and was quite impressed. 

Schiit doesn't claim any SQ improvement from Wyrd, but I guess a lot of people seem to think it helps. Things like Wyrd and Jitterbug still just deal with USB. I think both you and I would probably be better off using some kind of DDC or other device that would feed coax to our DACs. In my case with Bimby I would be limited to SPDIF input, but with Gumby you would have BNC input, which may be even better. 

I haven't done a lot of research on this subject, but do know it is not easy to find good information on it. I like Jitterbug because it is so cheap in comparison to any other device purportedly aimed at improving the data flow (a subject on which in the past I have expressed strong skepticism), and it does for me make a significant improvement - significant enough that I would hate to give it up at this point.

But again, as with Schiit Multibit DACs on the FA threads in the past and Elise on the HD800S thread, I again find myself to be the lone voice calling in the wilderness here about Jitterbug.


----------



## connieflyer

Well noting like opening up the thread and finding you missed a page and a half, even though instant email notifications is on.  Guess they are getting tired of me ragging on the unfinished software and making it harder for me to stay!
@pctzahp here are a couple of tracks to test out the euforia with. The quality of her voice and announciation are great even if you don't care for the format. Also note the contrast between the St. Petersburg Choir and Lorena's voice.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well noting like opening up the thread and finding you missed a page and a half, even though instant email notifications is on.  Guess they are getting tired of me ragging on the unfinished software and making it harder for me to stay!
> @pctzahp here are a couple of tracks to test out the euforia with. The quality of her voice and announciation are great even if you don't care for the format. Also note the contrast between the St. Petersburg Choir and Lorena's voice.



I love Loreena, and you are right that these are great recordings to allow Euforia to show off. My viewpoint is Loreena far outclasses Paul Anka


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen. You probably are already familiar with this, but this seems to be one of the more popular DDCs: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/kte...6-dop-free-shipping-with-coupon-code-singxer/

But it is very expensive and seems like they don't have a trial period. I'm hoping Schiit will come out with a DDC closer to the $200 price point. In the meantime I'm happy with my Jitterbug - which I said I'd never mention again.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> well here we go again, this stupid forum is not sending notifications again.  When I log in to page i can see number of posts and also private messages at top.  Tried going into pm's to reread or delete them so they don't show up each time and I have to check and see only to see same pm's from two years ago moved to the top.  Can not delete any either.
> On other topic, checking on PSVane to see who they are and what they make, got this page hit, very interesting how they are described.  Formerly Shugy.
> http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/who-is-psvane/


Hi CF,

In the past i read through this article as well as others about the Shuguang and Psvane tubes. IMHO there is a lot of hype and marketing in the production of these tubes. One article, written by the Canadian distributor which has a financial and vested interest in the production, claimed that the eBay sellers of these tubes who are selling them cheap are selling B stock.
However, another article claimed that any tubes not up to spec are destroyed.
Based on historical accounts of tube production, IMHO certain tubes from a production run may be selected for measuring better (for example the S versions of the C3g), but otherwise they are all the same. I have an old friend who is an A/V engineer, and he claimed that a 10% tolerance was acceptable in tube production. Some accounts state that the better measuring tubes were selected for military use and the rest for consumer use, but I don't know if this is true.
I find it hard to believe that the same tube is being made with thicker glass and better quality internals, but it is easy to believe that the same tube comes packed and painted in different packaging and paint schemes to look more exclusive and expensive.

Caveat emptor!


----------



## Oskari

_Die Moldau_ Vltava


----------



## UntilThen

Who was playing Sukiyaki recently? Reminds me of my trip there in 2010. Wife and daughter will be going there again end of the month. I'll be home alone .... that's when I will get my multibit dac and hd800. Worth missing Japan for it.


----------



## UntilThen

1962...where were you.


----------



## UntilThen

Seriously Dan, aren't you changing the song? However I kind of like it too.


----------



## UntilThen

One more before the next shift takes over.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> 1962...where were you.



Wherever I was I was listening to the Cascades sing Rhythm of the Rain, which is one of my all time favorites AND preparing for the British invasion of the YOU-KNOW-WHO!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Oh yes September 1962 United States Navy boot camp how fun was that!!


----------



## UntilThen

I was 6 years old in 1962.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks I needed that!


----------



## UntilThen (May 13, 2017)

Let me refresh your memory of boot camp.


----------



## UntilThen

Of all the CCR songs, I've to choose this.... but I love the tune and the lyrics.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> 1962...where were you.



I wasn't, and neither was Sissel. 


_Imagine_


----------



## UntilThen (May 13, 2017)

You're too young. 1962 was JFK time. I see you love Sissel. So did I when I was in car audio. A competitor gave me a Sissel CD and I played this song when the judges sat in my car to listen. Needless to say I won the Rookie of the year award.... or my car did. 

I love her voice and when the drums and hi-hats kicks in.


----------



## UntilThen

Ok 1990 and you should be.... 

Guns & Roses before I do some backyard work


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> You're too young.



Or perhaps you are a bit of a geezer. 



UntilThen said:


> I see you love Sissel.



I absolutely do, and I have our fellow posters in the Feliks threads to thank for. (Thanks!) I hadn't paid nearly enough attention to her.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Ok 1990 and you should be....
> 
> Guns & Roses before I do some backyard work



Well, yes. 


_Smells Like Teen Spirit_


----------



## mordy

1962 - that was when my ATM best sounding driver tubes were made. The date code is K 2. Let's see if you can figure out which brand?

Hint: To decipher the date code you need a knowledge of the alphabet and how to use your ten fingers and maybe two big toes. Then you have to know that this company teamed up with Philips in 1952 (OK, this is the giveaway) and that the logo changed in 1965. And that they ceased vacuum tube production in 1979. And that they changed the corporate name three times.

OK Oskari - you know the answer; let's see if somebody else can figure it out lol........


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Or perhaps you are a bit of a geezer.
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely do, and I have our fellow posters in the Feliks threads to thank for. (Thanks!) I hadn't paid nearly enough attention to her.



Geezers united 

I ain't kidding when I say I'm a fan too. This is only 1 of 2 youtube videos I made.... recorded with an iphone so can't expect too much but there in the car, I have 12" subwoofer for the low down grunt.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> 1962 - that was when my ATM best sounding driver tubes were made. The date code is K 2. Let's see if you can figure out which brand?
> 
> Hint: To decipher the date code you need a knowledge of the alphabet and how to use your ten fingers and maybe two big toes. Then you have to know that this company teamed up with Philips in 1952 (OK, this is the giveaway) and that the logo changed in 1965. And that they ceased vacuum tube production in 1979. And that they changed the corporate name three times.
> 
> OK Oskari - you know the answer; let's see if somebody else can figure it out lol........



Coca Cola?    Can't think on a Sunday. It's a rest day.


----------



## mordy

Here it is still Saturday. At least start using your fingers and big toes to figure out the month......A B C D E F G H I J K


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

To paraphrase your quote, this tube leaves me *meshmerized*.....


----------



## UntilThen (May 14, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> To paraphrase your quote, this tube leaves me *meshmerized*.....



Must be Mullard. Did you get the EF80 or EF86?

Both sounded very good on La Figaro 339 but the Mullard EF86 is much better on that amp. My son loves it. It's my incentive to visit him more so I get to listen to HE560 with LF339 and those drivers and Svetlana 6h13c power tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

@pctazhp  I am waiting to hear your report on this. I want the assessment on my table by Monday morning.

https://www.amazon.com/HiFace-Hi-En...rd_wg=WVBQb&psc=1&refRID=WATQHRKEHFTCXAA9ZHN3


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> @pctazhp  I am waiting to hear your report on this. I want the assessment on my table by Monday morning.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/HiFace-Hi-En...rd_wg=WVBQb&psc=1&refRID=WATQHRKEHFTCXAA9ZHN3



The one you have so kindly ordered for me hasn't yet arrived so my report will be delayed.

This entire subject is a morass of confusion, at least for my brain-empty head cavity. Here are just two examples of the kind of stuff I see that makes no sense to me:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac.810065/page-83#post-13489917

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/page-341#post-13490163

All I know is Mike Moffat says USB is his least favorite input on his MB DACs. But I, like many people, use HD Tidal as my main source of music. So, what to do - what to do???

In the meantime, you may want to consider: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-f1-digital-interface-board/


----------



## pctazhp

And here is Hi-Face's big brother: http://www.needledoctor.com/M2TECH-hiFace-Evo-S-PDIF-Output-Interface?sc=7&category=42198

Don't forget to order the power supply!!!


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, when I was on the NeedleDoctor web site, I saw the SOTA Millennia turntable. Pretty cool. I used to like SOTA tables a lot.

But $10,500, and that's without cartridge or arm!!! Kind of makes our talk of DACs, etc. seem like chump change


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, these Hi-Face dongles used to be very big in my country among the high-end community for many years. I personally haven't auditioned them but  I remember them to have grown quite a crowd in their day -  and perhaps they still do!

In this regard,  this oldie but Goldie came to mind: http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Hi guys, these Hi-Face dongles used to be very big in my country among the high-end community for many years. I personally haven't auditioned them but  I remember them to have grown quite a crowd in their day -  and perhaps they still do!
> 
> In this regard,  this oldie but Goldie came to mind: http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/



I don't see a lot of discussion about the quality of USB data stream, and until quite recently didn't pay much attention to it. The Halide Bridge is interesting, but pretty pricey and perhaps a little dated. Anyway, thank for the additional information)))


----------



## pctazhp

I said I wouldn't say more about Euforia unless and until I noticed any significant improvement during burn-in. With 30 to 35 hours, I have reached a new level. Won't try to describe the improvement, but it is significant. Everything is just more better)))))


----------



## connieflyer (May 14, 2017)

Not to dredge up past threads, but , oh well, i will.  Favorite CCR is Ramble Tamble. 2 minutes in the guitar work gets going in earnest.....Still have the original album, unless I sent it to UT


----------



## connieflyer

This one is for PCT, had this on 78rpm record, yes folks I had an awesome record player back in 1957, had all four speeds, 16 rpm, 33 1/3 rpm, 45 rpm and of course 78 rpm.


----------



## pctazhp

I obviously need to step in here. This is the best CCR, and you don't need to wait 2 minutes in for the good stuff to get started. BUT WARNING: CONTENTS OF THIS VIDEO NOT SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN OR FOR @connieflyer


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you for including me in the peanut gallery! Great news! Now I no longer need to take my Meds!  Back to Marty Robbins!


----------



## pctazhp

For future purposes, it's "Glendale, Arizona's own Marty Robbins"


----------



## pctazhp

OK. So it was Canned Heat. Details, details ))))


----------



## connieflyer (May 14, 2017)

Details are not important now, I barely remember some of the things from back then, probably a good thing!


----------



## connieflyer

I played this on the jukebox so many times when I was stationed in Memphis, Tn. they would unplug the  machine when they saw me come in..


----------



## connieflyer

I'm done.


----------



## connieflyer

okay one more in honor to all the street racing we did


----------



## pctazhp

I love that Hot Rod Lincoln video, but through Euforia it is *Sizzling* Hot Rod Lincoln!!!

I have taken the liberty of looking up the definition of "done" as in "I'm *done*".

Here is what I found: 

*done*
 (dŭn)
_v._
Past participle of  do1.
_adj._
*1. * Having been carried out or accomplished; finished: a done deed.
*2. * Cooked adequately.
*3. * Socially acceptable: Spitting on the street is just not done in polite society.
*4. * _Informal_ Totally worn out; exhausted.​
Not sure which one you meant.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps this will give you pause..


----------



## UntilThen

And so to make my setup sound better with the Euforia as the cornerstone, my quest to find the right dac is getting closer and closer. 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-288#post-13490423

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-288#post-13490448


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> And so to make my setup sound better with the Euforia as the cornerstone, my quest to find the right dac is getting closer and closer.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-288#post-13490423
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-288#post-13490448



I almost never chose what to listen to based on quality of the recording, but rather what song or performance am I in the mood for. Right now I'm listening to an old Harry Belafonte album on Tidal. Far from a state of the art recording. And if I pay attention I can hear its short comings. But it sounds so great. I can't imagine how listening to recorded music can get any more enjoyable.

I read posts from people who have many times the amount of money invested in their headphone systems than I have, and they are still looking for even better. Or they claim USB was never intended for music and they long ago abandoned it, or they find other imperfections they are trying to cure and appear ready to spend a lot of money to achieve nirvana. When I read stuff like that I start to think that I may just not know what to listen for or am not nearly critical enough. Well maybe so. I don't know. What I do know is that over the decades I have heard some of the finest speaker based systems ever assembled. I can't say the same about headphones, but I think I'm not a totally tone-deaf listener.

With my Bimby-Jitterbug - Burning-in Euforia and HD800S I just absolutely love listening to recorded music. More so than I have ever before. So, what I'm trying to say is that I feel very confident that if you choose Gumby you will be thrilled. Are there other paths that could be equally or more rewarding? I'm sure there are, but I certainly can't even guess what they would be. I'm not at all saying that is what you SHOULD do. I just don't have the breath of experience with current DACs and headphones. But I don't think you are wildly off base.


----------



## UntilThen (May 14, 2017)

^ upgrading is fine as long as you don't become this


----------



## UntilThen

Let's not forget H1's incoming Hugo 2.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Let's not forget H1's incoming Hugo 2.



Wash my mouth out with soap and send me to the woodshed if I even came close to suggesting we forget it


----------



## UntilThen

Hugo 2 is the price of a Yggy here downunder.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Hugo 2 is the price of a Yggy here downunder.



I think they are also pretty close in price here upover. And with Hugo 2 one is also paying for an amp that probably wouldn't be used. But I haven't heard Yiggy or Hugo 2, so I'm just whistling DIxie.


----------



## UntilThen (May 15, 2017)

The bullet has landed. That's what I call the Sylvania 6sn7w. Looks like a bullet. This is one of the top 6sn7 drivers according to the 6sn7 Reference thread.

It took me a while before I dabble with a better sounding 6sn7 driver but it could also be the last of my tube purchase. It's time to chase dac and headphones. 

This is not the metal base variety which is even more expensive but nevertheless supposedly almost as good and less microphonic.

So how does it sound? Replacing the Tung Sol 6sn7gtb (1960s) and paired with Bendix 6080wb, it's quite evident that this is a more revealing driver. Treble is sparkling clear, vocals are outstanding and bass has a solid impact. Soundstage is wider and instruments separation is outstanding. Hard to imagine that a tiny looking 6sn7 tube produces such tone.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Lukazs just contacted me to ask for some extra information for the courier... Euforia will soon be on the way!!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> The bullet has landed. That's what I call the Sylvania 6sn7w. Looks like a bullet. This is one of the top 6sn7 drivers according to the 6sn7 Reference thread.
> 
> It took me a while before I dabble with a better sounding 6sn7 driver but it *could* also be the last of my tube purchase. It's time to chase dac and headphones.
> 
> ...



Might fine looking pair of bullets, pawdner. But the operative word is "could"


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Lukazs just contacted me to ask for some extra information for the courier... Euforia will soon be on the way!!!!!



Congrats. It's exciting to be getting your Euforia soon. I wonder how many have been shipped.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> The bullet has landed. That's what I call the Sylvania 6sn7w. Looks like a bullet. This is one of the top 6sn7 drivers according to the 6sn7 Reference thread.
> 
> It took me a while before I dabble with a better sounding 6sn7 driver but it could also be the last of my tube purchase. It's time to chase dac and headphones.
> 
> ...




These are great sounding driver tubes....congrats.


----------



## connieflyer

I will have to look in on  these.  Something to resolve live performances


----------



## connieflyer

Ut , where did you find these tubes?


----------



## connieflyer

another great performance.


----------



## UntilThen

CF I got the Sylvania 6sn7w pair on ebay used but in good condition for $128.

NOS ones are asking for $400 plus.


----------



## connieflyer

If you like them that much I'll have to look around for them sounds like something I would like. Thank you UT


----------



## UntilThen

You should be very happy with the Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231 and Tung Sol 5998. Most folks would be.

Sylvania 6sn7w is nice but like the Tung Sol 6sn7gt black round plates, prices are getting out of hand.

I've no doubt my next purchase will be a multibit dac. That's supposed to take you back to vinyl sound.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Congrats on your new tubes!  I have a similar looking pair from the mid 50's but the designation is 6SN7GTA so they are not the coveted 6SN7W version.

Anyhow, came across a review of what looks like a similar pair to yours:






The review is very poetic but a little befuddling to me - maybe somebody can interpret it (I'll try below):

*There was a lovely midrange, extended high-frequency and special "Mei Li", regardless of location, dynamic, analytical and hierarchical interpretation of the sound field, and the performance of the human voice charm and sense of the scene, are sufficient to exemplary (inferior to the metal base 6SN7A / W), which is the production of tubes Sylvania detached Arcane.

I think that it means: Lovely mid range, extended high frequency range with that special beauty regardless of music source; dynamic, analytical extended sound stage. Voices are portrayed with charm and a sense of presence all in all making for an exemplary performance (only improved upon by the older Sylvania production of the metal base 6SN7W tubes). 

CF - if you are interested they only cost the price of a Hugo:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MB-SYLV...862817?hash=item4b169be5a1:g:ybcAAOSwPYZU7Gq8

美丽 means Mei Li which means beautiful in Chinese.


*


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy you know Mandarin. Mei-Li means beautiful. 

Please don't egg CF to buy that NOS pair of Sylvania 6sn7w.


----------



## connieflyer

No problem with me buying that pair. Way way overpriced. Looking a local supplier I have bought from in the past he has some metal base where the metal shield around the bottom is loose but tubes are in great shape other than that.


----------



## connieflyer

I like the KRs very much, just want to try a few other combos with the 5998s staying witheSe 800 and psaudio dac so I thought another pair or two of tubes


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I like the KRs very much, just want to try a few other combos with the 5998s staying witheSe 800 and psaudio dac so I thought another pair or two of tubes


----------



## pctazhp

In my effort to climb every mountain, I've ordered this: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-xeme2ve-usb-to-spdif-digital-interface/

Should be here by the end of the week. Will report.


----------



## connieflyer

I looked at that converter when I thought I might keep the Denafrips dac. Thought it looked like a good unit. Funny you should choose Climb Every Mountain as although I no longer have any dreams to fulfill once my other knee gets replaced and I heal up my goal is to Climb Every Mountain in Tennessee I had made a start of it before want to finish that before I go. Might have to come to Arizona and hiked across the desert. Okay that's not going to happen never make it in the heat. Although I would like to go down to the zoo.


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,








Like this one? It belongs to Gibosi.

Dealing with the 60-70 year old EL11 and EL12 tubes the bases are often lose. I bought some brush on crazy glue and this takes care of it in 30 seconds.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I looked at that converter when I thought I might keep the Denafrips dac. Thought it looked like a good unit. Funny you should choose Climb Every Mountain as although I no longer have any dreams to fulfill once my other knee gets replaced and I heal up my goal is to Climb Every Mountain in Tennessee I had made a start of it before want to finish that before I go. Might have to come to Arizona and hiked across the desert. Okay that's not going to happen never make it in the heat. Although I would like to go down to the zoo.



OK wise guy. Here's an Arizona mountain for you to climb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Peaks. It is said to have mystical powers, so it is a very good place to bond - if you get my drift.

If the mountain is too much for you, I'm certain you will feel quite at home at the zoo.



PS. I think it's a good idea you returned the Denafrips back. It seems like something to eat more than to listen to.

PSS. @mordy  Your recommendation to CF to use *Krazy* glue was most appropriate!!!

PSSS. Almost forgot to say good morning CF. As always I wish you a wonderful day


----------



## connieflyer

Really liked that 
Link to the Cocaine forests, if you did not make it to the top you probably would not care


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That photo with the twist tie is a classic! 

Cc @gibosi


----------



## connieflyer

Except for the twit tie


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Except for the twit tie



Twit? 

The tie is the point!


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> Twit?
> 
> The tie is the *point*!



Did I hear someone calling me???


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Did I hear someone calling me???



Thank you, poin(t)dexter!


----------



## gibosi

Yep, the metal base was a little loose on this Sylvania 6SN7W, but with a simple twist tie it's good as new.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,

There are several versions on this crazy glue - make sure to get this version with the brush, 5g. And do not pay more than $2.99 - I bought mine in Shop- Rite but I don't know if that supermarket chain has stores in AZ.

If the base is really lose, the thin brush hairs reach inside the space between the base and the glass.


----------



## UntilThen

2nd day with Sylvania 6sn7w and they are a revelation. I am hearing more of everything in John Coltrane - A Love Supreme - The Complete Masters. These tubes are worth seeking out. This is an instance where I feel drivers have a greater impact than powers. These Sylvanias have treble supremacy, lush mids and very good low end extensions.

I'm still using the 6sn7w with Bendix 6080w in Euforia listening with modded hd650.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> I am admittedly quite interested in the Danish Soekris DACs as well.



LJ, sorry to drag you in on this again but I kind of miss this. What is special about the Soekris DACs that pique your interest? Also I think you were trailing the Holo Spring DAC. What did you think about it compared with the Yggy and Gumby? Also have you any experience with any of the Denafrips DAC? Have you seen the Denafrips Pontus? Lastly, what in your opinion is the best DAC to get for a budget of $1500.

I'm deciding on a DAC to go with my Euforia so it's all relevant here. 

Thanks in advance.
UT


----------



## connieflyer

PCT do you remember this voice?


----------



## connieflyer

In honor of one of the best days I am having in a long time, this is the way I feel


----------



## UntilThen

After the appointment of my special counsel Pct to handle my EL12 tube refund, I finally got a full refund today despite wege posting a picture of the smashed up tube.

Never underestimate the power of a special counsel. 

In other news today, the Sylvania 6sn7w and Tung Sol 5998 is showing real class. I cannot stress how wonderful 5998 sounds and in combination with the 6sn7w, it's making headlines. Euforia is now a new beast. While I say that she sounds marvelous with Psvane 6sn7 and Mullard 6080, this other combination is just at another outer level.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> After the appointment of my special counsel Pct to handle my EL12 tube refund, I finally got a full refund today despite wege posting a picture of the smashed up tube.
> 
> Never underestimate the power of a special counsel.
> 
> In other news today, the Sylvania 6sn7w and Tung Sol 5998 is showing real class. I cannot stress how wonderful 5998 sounds and in combination with the 6sn7w, it's making headlines. Euforia is now a new beast. While I say that she sounds marvelous with Psvane 6sn7 and Mullard 6080, this other combination is just at another outer level.



The only "special counsel" I provide is to myself - that being to stop coming to this thread because it just costs me money. Now I have to start chasing a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W tubes


----------



## connieflyer

You no longer have to chase, just ask and I will tell you where to go!


----------



## UntilThen

This pair says it's “Digitally tested for superior accuracy!”   

How do you test a tube digitally?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-JA...eed9473&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=2&sd=182491082969


----------



## pctazhp

I don't know much about history or how to test a tube digitally (or anything else for that matter, including a head of cabbage). I'll stick around here for a while unless CF invites me to visit him in Michigan, in which case I'll plan a trip to Death Valley, California.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> How do you test a tube digitally?



With a "digital" tester, apparently.

http://amplitrex.com/


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I don't know much about history or how to test a tube digitally (or anything else for that matter, including a head of cabbage). I'll stick around here for a while unless CF invites me to visit him in Michigan, in which case I'll plan a trip to Death Valley, California.




Why don't you both come to Barrossa Valley.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> With a "digital" tester, apparently.
> 
> http://amplitrex.com/



Yeah but that's giving you '1s' and '0s'. We want an analogue tester that says 'crap, mediocre or great'.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Yeah but that's giving you '1s' and '0s'. We want an analogue tester that says 'crap, mediocre or great'.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/51764518@N02/15952662602/in/photostream/


----------



## mordy (May 18, 2017)

Hi UT and h1,

Finally got an opportunity to buy a T1 Gen 1 at a good price. It sounds very good, but I probably need some adjustment period compared to listening through speakers, even to the extent that I may need to use different tubes than what I am currently using with the speakers I have.

The lack of volume with 0.2A drivers is easily compensated with a power amplifier but less so with the Euforia alone, so I switched to Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7GTA and TS 5998.

These headphones were sold "like new" and to me they appear new - how long of a break in period should I expect?

At what volume level are you using your T1s?

Is the serial number any clue to when they were made?


----------



## canthearyou

Oh connieflyer is a fellow Michigander? Where about do you stay?


----------



## connieflyer

Usually in the dog house!


----------



## canthearyou

Ha!


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats Mordy. I like my T1 G1 but the headband is a bit worn. Mine has an earlier number in the 5000 series with a 7N OCC cable. Very clear I love the tone.

I'm usually at 10 am volume level.

Your tube combo should sound good.


----------



## Oskari

_*Dagen gryr*_


----------



## DecentLevi (May 20, 2017)

So this will be my Euforia rig until another time TBD. Putting most of my things in storage and goin' on an a well deserved extended vacation in several Asian countries the rest of the year. I've now got two new superb mobile rigs including prototype IEMs with top DAP and a small solid state amp of great caliber for on the go. Extensive recent experience with the Euforia has shown the GEC 6as7G + hi-end 6SN7's such as 'Bad Boys' and smoked grey ones to hold up astonishingly well to to the best of EL12 setups, even better in some regards. I may not have time to report back though as I leave the states quite soon. Until sometime later, perhaps. It's been fine, folks!


----------



## UntilThen

Well take your time through Asia. Don't forget to drop in on North Korea, Mongolia and Tibet. I'd also suggest that you pack your tubes and Euforia properly and not in Woolies shopping bags. 

You ain't seen or heard extensive recent experiences until you step into my shoes. UT will be here as has been from the beginning of the 2nd Elise thread and my Euforia continues to sound amazing. I'm past the optimum hours now. Sometimes I wonder if I will hear a better tone but I'm about to get the Gumby and HD800 very soon. 

I will update on how the whole setup sounds when 'it' arrives and burn-in.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,

Wishing you a safe and pleasant trip! If you have access to the internet, send us some reports here and there.


----------



## UntilThen

On a fateful day in May 2017, I paid Addicted To Audio in Newton a visit - a fateful visit I must say. The aim is to buy Gumby and Pokey (HD800). Alas Gumby is out of stock !!!

So I end up listening to 'Sultans of Swing' by Dire Straits on this behemoth (see picture below)... with Pokey of course.

The sound that reach my ears is unbelievably transparent and cutting edge. I don't mean harsh. I mean CLEAR, PRAT and 'I want to buy it now' kind of tone. I sat there flipping through songs after songs, oblivious to Tom (the salesman) trying to tell me that if I'm interested, he will do me the Deal of the Century. I didn't hear what he was talking, especially since initially I wanted the Yggy hooked up to the Woo Audio WA22 that was sitting next to it, in balanced configuration BUT Tom stuff it up and couldn't get the WA22 going. So I end up listening on the HD800 through Yggy and Ragnorak. Hey, it's probably a good thing because this is one SS amp that sounds pretty amazing. I can hear everything, right down to Knopfler's breathing. I make a mental note that I have to filter that out when I get this home. I am not going to listen to every singer's breathing.

So did I buy it? More to come.


----------



## UntilThen

I end up buying Yggy and Pokey. Gumby is out of the movie now. Too bad he's out of stock. Tom made me an offer I couldn't resist even though my wallet says no.

He took $400 off the package price. I look at him with eyes glistening but I'm trying to conceal it, so I countered 'take $500 off and make my day or you will swim with the fishes'. Being the seasoned salesman that he is, he said, 'Let's meet it halfway - $450 off !'

I was about to say, 'Throw in an Omega headphone stand and it's a done deal' but I'm anxious to get this thing home and lunch is beckoning. So I shook Tom's hand and that was it. I got meself a Yggy (which I didn't plan on buying) and HD800 in a brand new box.

So I have to burn in the dac and the headphone with Euforia. Think I'll just listen to it while it burns in and see if I hear anything different when it transforms.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I
> 
> So I have to burn in the dac and the headphone with Euforia. Think I'll just listen to it while it burns in and see if I hear anything different when it transforms.



While your at it, don't forget to transform your signature. I'm going to bed now and am sure I will be waking up to an entirely new world in the morning. Congratulations )))))


----------



## UntilThen

Ok signature now says Samsung Galaxy S7 edge and earbud.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy unboxing lol

Pic 1


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy and Pokey


----------



## UntilThen

Outdoor deck - this is true ladder deck.


----------



## UntilThen

All together...


----------



## UntilThen

I've been so used to my NAD d1050 dac with Euforia and modded HD650 and T1. 

1st impression - With HD800 and Yggy in the setup with Euforia. Both headphone and dac are still raw. Brand new. I want to capture what I hear right now as compared to my old setup.

You are kidding me. Right out of the box, this setup with a burn in Euforia have me grinning from ear to ear. Sound cues snap to attention and have an immediate focus. Soundstage is wide and deep. I hear all the notes, instruments very clearly. High notes are tingling. Vocals are already sounding like a million bucks. Bass is pretty awesome on my bass track - 'Rock You Gently' by Jennifer Warnes, The Hunter album.

Tubes in Euforia are Sylvania 6sn7w and Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates.

I can't see how I want to go back to NAD d1050 again.... and I know that the sound will get better and better in the days to come.

Fate has it that I got a Yggy when I set out today to buy a Gumby.... no in fact at the start of my search for a DAC, I was thinking of the Denafrips Ares.

I'm sure glad it turn out this way.

ps... I'm still using a plain vanilla USB cable to connect Yggy.


----------



## Liu Junyuan (May 20, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I've been so used to my NAD d1050 dac with Euforia and modded HD650 and T1.
> 
> 1st impression - With HD800 and Yggy in the setup with Euforia. Both headphone and dac are still raw. Brand new. I want to capture what I hear right now as compared to my old setup.
> 
> ...



Congratulations on the Yggy. I also own one.

The Yggy needs time to thermally stabilize (see your included manual), basically over the course of a week or so. Do not turn it off. If you think you like it now, you haven't heard anything yet. It will start to become spooky real by about the fourth day. I firmly remember noticing the DAC was almost two different personalities in one from days two to three, where you had the real Yggy beginning to emerge from the cold body of its initial self. The Yggy shines with just the music you seem to post here; it is a fantastic, reference-level DAC with real world instruments and voices. I have little doubt it pairs well with your Euforia.

As for the HD800, it is an incredibly resolving and spacious, yet polarizing and picky headphone. It is arguably more technically superior to the T1, but you will find it will expose everything wrong with poorly mastered recordings. For those that you find do well with the HD800, be prepared to be absolutely blown away. On the right chain and with the right music, not even the Utopia has blown me away like the HD800 has. I would _*highly*_ suggest contacting sorrodje for a very affordable physical mod to attenuate its peak at 6khz. The HD800S includes essentially the same thing, but it adds second-order distortion to the bass that the original HD800 does not have, making the original more accurate. If you need help securing this from sorrodje, PM me. It is an essential mod IMO. He is usually more than happy to hook people up. See Tyll's innerfidelity article on the HD800S for an official mention of sorrodje's mod.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> I end up buying Yggy and Pokey. Gumby is out of the movie now. Too bad he's out of stock. Tom made me an offer I couldn't resist even though my wallet says no.
> 
> He took $400 off the package price. I look at him with eyes glistening but I'm trying to conceal it, so I countered 'take $500 off and make my day or you will swim with the fishes'. Being the seasoned salesman that he is, he said, 'Let's meet it halfway - $450 off !'
> 
> ...



Congrats is is order....wonderful set -up indeed.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen There is no doubt you have catapulted yourself into owning one of the finest high end headphone systems in the world. That's very appropriate, as I don't know another non-professional HeadFi member who has contributed more than you to helping people, providing invaluable information and generating the excitement many of us feel for our hobby.

Obviously, you know the critical importance of allowing Yiggy to settle in over the next week and keeping it on full time 24/7 from now on, and you know that the best still awaits you. At some point in the future you no doubt will be tempted to upgrade to a fully balanced system, and I suspect with the satisfaction you will experience with Yiggy that the Rag may be on your short list. I myself am skeptical about the benefit of balanced circuitry in the desktop setting, but Schiit knows far more than I do, and they obviously feel it can be beneficial.

II suspect that by running Yiggy with Euforia you will be experiencing magic that very few HeadFi members have ever come close to enjoying. Euforia, with its special combination of detail retrieval coupled with a tonal balance that is unique and addictive shares much with the Schiit multibit DACs. So you are now at the outset of an entirely new adventure that I'm sure many of us will be following closely.

And I'm sure that as good as Yiggy will perform with a straight USB connection from your PC, it will probably reach an entirely new level if you take advantage of its AES/EBU input with something like this: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxersu1black/

Two days ago I received this: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-xeme2ve-usb-to-spdif-digital-interface/ I immediately noticed an improvement when I inserted it between my powered USB3 hub and Bimby. But the Kitsune website makes a point of praising the advantage of the units' USB 3 input. I didn't have the right USB3 cable on the first day, but yesterday I swapped in a cheap USB3 cable and the improvement was dramatic, even with using a cheap SPDIF coax between the HA unit and Bimby. Of course, Bimby doesn't have a BNC or AES/EBU input, so I think the HA unit is adequate for me for now, but the SU-1 with its AES/EBU output should be capable of sending you to even great heights.

You certainly won't be needing this, but I wish you happy listening)))


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> Congratulations on the Yggy. I also own one.
> 
> The Yggy needs time to thermally stabilize (see your included manual), basically over the course of a week or so. Do not turn it off. If you think you like it now, you haven't heard anything yet. It will start to become spooky real by about the fourth day. I firmly remember noticing the DAC was almost two different personalities in one from days two to three, where you had the real Yggy beginning to emerge from the cold body of its initial self. The Yggy shines with just the music you seem to post here; it is a fantastic, reference-level DAC with real world instruments and voices. I have little doubt it pairs well with your Euforia.
> 
> As for the HD800, it is an incredibly resolving and spacious, yet polarizing and picky headphone. It is arguably more technically superior to the T1, but you will find it will expose everything wrong with poorly mastered recordings. For those that you find do well with the HD800, be prepared to be absolutely blown away. On the right chain and with the right music, not even the Utopia has blown me away like the HD800 has. I would _*highly*_ suggest contacting sorrodje for a very affordable physical mod to attenuate its peak at 6khz. The HD800S includes essentially the same thing, but it adds second-order distortion to the bass that the original HD800 does not have, making the original more accurate. If you need help securing this from sorrodje, PM me. It is an essential mod IMO. He is usually more than happy to hook people up. See Tyll's innerfidelity article on the HD800S for an official mention of sorrodje's mod.



Thanks LJ. Invaluable advice. Much appreciated. My progress in head-fi have been influenced by the path you have taken. First the La Figaro 339 now the Yggy. These are significant upgrades and totally worth it for someone really keen on listening to music. Particularly this Yggy. At 3am, I am suddenly aware that my headphone system becomes so quiet in the soft passages. It's pitch black and that makes the musical notes stand out so clearly in contrast. I'm going through my flac albums and I want to hear them all again because now they sound different. 

I'll keep my Yggy powered on all the time. My only regret is that in my haste to set it up, I didn't use my Belkin anti-surge power board. I should have yank that off the TV. Head-fi has made my TV pretty redundant now because I'm listening to music all the time. 

Oh yeah I'll PM you to talk about that mod. I just want to listen to HD800 as it is first so I can appreciate the difference when the mod goes in. Just strap on my modded HD650 and my oh my. Did they say this headphone scale well? All this while I thought it's only the amp but now I can hear what a difference a DAC upgrade makes. Still early days and the Yggy is still warming up but already it is sounding so good.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> Congrats is is order....wonderful set -up indeed.



Thanks WW. It's a bit extravagant but a new dac and headphone injected into the system makes a big difference. All this new sound I'm hearing now are attributed to both the HD800, Yggy and Euforia combining so well. Now if only I hadn't been so caught up with buying tubes for the past 1 year and have made the plunge for these instead. It's not too late !!! 

Oh as I was walking out of the store, the salesman says, 'Now that you have the best DAC and revealing headphone, the only upgrades you need now are better Nordost RCA and Cardas headphone cables'. I think he's pretty evil. I will stay with my bare wire.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen There is no doubt you have catapulted yourself into owning one of the finest high end headphone systems in the world. That's very appropriate, as I don't know another non-professional HeadFi member who has contributed more than you to helping people, providing invaluable information and generating the excitement many of us feel for our hobby.
> 
> Obviously, you know the critical importance of allowing Yiggy to settle in over the next week and keeping it on full time 24/7 from now on, and you know that the best still awaits you. At some point in the future you no doubt will be tempted to upgrade to a fully balanced system, and I suspect with the satisfaction you will experience with Yiggy that the Rag may be on your short list. I myself am skeptical about the benefit of balanced circuitry in the desktop setting, but Schiit knows far more than I do, and they obviously feel it can be beneficial.
> 
> ...



You mean my money has catapulted out of my wallet? This is a dangerous hobby and I can only blame @hypnos1  for coming on and talking about his Naim Too Cute and Power conditioner.... and his yet to arrived Hugo 2 !!!

I'm sure I'll be tempted with the different connections to Yggy that you mentioned but hey I'll stay with USB3 for a bit I guess. The Singxer SU-1 and Uptone Regen can wait! Can you get a USB3 cable? because my PC has USB3 output ports and hdmi and optical out. Can you link your USB3 cable.

Don't worry I won't power Yggy off. I told my little doggy that he is not to pull the power cord. And my wife came into the study to talk to me but she wasn't aware of the new gear ..... the Yggy and HD800 must be pretty unobtrusive.


----------



## pctazhp (May 20, 2017)

This is USB 3 cable I got for my HA unit: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NH144GK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It would fit SU-1 but I don't think it necessary for SU-1 or any other decrapifier other than the HA unit that I know of because I think all the rest are just USB 2.

Don't know why all of a sudden, without asking me, all my digits are now small (((((

Edit:  Also should probably mention that with something like the HA unit or any other similar device that doesn't have its own power supply but derives its power from the USB cable it is probably best to run it off a powered USB hub.


----------



## UntilThen

What digits? Has @connieflyer  been messing with your digits?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> This is USB 3 cable I got for my HA unit: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NH144GK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> It would fit SU-1 but I don't think it necessary for SU-1 or any other decrapifier other than the HA unit that I know of because I think all the rest are just USB 2.
> 
> ...



No I want to use the USB3 cable straight into Yggy because Yggy USB input is USB3 but that head don't look like it will fit - Yggy's USB input is just the USB A to B input.


----------



## connieflyer

I have done a lot of unscrupulous things in my life, but would never mess with his digits!


----------



## connieflyer

by the way pct, UT cannot use that usb cable with his unit.  The smile logo is on the wrong  cable end.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Edit:  Also should probably mention that with something like the HA unit or any other similar device that doesn't have its own power supply but derives its power from the USB cable it is probably *best to run it off a powered USB hub*.



The Schiit Wyrd will do that right? Or ifi USB power? More gadgets !


----------



## UntilThen (May 20, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> by the way pct, UT cannot use that usb cable with his unit.  The smile logo is on the wrong  cable end.



That's right. Yggy's USB connection is USB 2.0 female but it's supposed to be USB 3.0 ..... so how am I going to get USB 3 in it? I need Sherlock Homes


----------



## UntilThen

News flash. At 4:49am on a Sunday morning in Sydney, the Sound of Silence became so real. This Yggy is slowly waking up after 8 hours.

By the way this song was written on a Wednesday morning 3am 1963 by Paul Simon.... 3 months after JFK assassination (the saddest point in history). Just imagine if he had a Yggy it would have sounded so much better !


----------



## connieflyer (May 20, 2017)

UT, was just looking at the Schiit website, that dac is nice looking.  Specs are great, what color did you get? If I got one would have to make that determination, more decissions !
Website shows out of stock too, just when I was going to pull the trigger!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, was just looking at the Schiit website, that dac is nice looking.  Specs are great, what color did you get? If I got one would have to make that determination, more decissions !



My friend, you owe it to yourself to get a Yggy in any colour !!! This is the real schiit and it's the first and last time I'll use this phrase.

At the shop I was debating on the colour. I wanted black but then I saw the Yggy and Rag combo in silver and that's matching. In the end, it didn't matter as they don't have black there. I have to make my way out of the shop real quick because I just saw the Focal Utopia there and the last thing I want is to walk out of the shop with it as well.


----------



## connieflyer

Also noticed this spec  Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs, will this pass dsd files? My PSAudio passes 24/192 but not dsd files.  If you have a dsd file would you try it please?  If it does pass dsd then it is in the running, if not I guess I will pass


----------



## pctazhp

I swear I don't know what CF and UT have been drinking, but it must be very powerful stuff. Regardless, of what CF says my USB3 cable works just fine, regardless of whether it is smiling or frowning. Just to show you how much CF knows, he told me USB 3 had broader bandwidth but I looked at it an USB 3 cable is no broader than the old USB 2 !!!!

As for Yiggy which UT says is USB 2 but should be USB 3, or whatever, this is appropriate USB 3 cable: https://smile.amazon.com/AmazonBasi...8&qid=1495306722&sr=8-16&keywords=usb+3+cable  When you have time and it won't inconvenience you, LOOK AT THE BACK OF YOUR YIGGY!!! I hate to ruin your good mood, but the type of USB female input (Type B) on your Yiggy is exactly the same type as my lowly and dis-respected Bimby. 

And Schiit Wyrd has its own power supply, so no need to worry about powered USB hub with it. And BTW, how do you know Yiggy and Wyrd USB inputs are USB3 ??????

Do I have to do everything????


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Also noticed this spec  Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs, will this pass dsd files? My PSAudio passes 24/192 but not dsd files.  If you have a dsd file would you try it please?  If it does pass dsd then it is in the running, if not I guess I will pass



It doesn't do DSD but hey if you have a DSD file, it will convert to PCM and it will sound great. Trust me, the way Yggy makes redbook files sound and if you're not impressed, I'll eat my Yggy. Even youtube sounds great. 

Serious, you should read all the glowing reviews of the Yggy from so many reviewers and also head-fi impressions. Don't just trust my words. Muiltibit is as good as it gets.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> UT, was just looking at the Schiit website, that dac is nice looking.  Specs are great, what color did you get? If I got one would have to make that determination, more decissions !
> Website shows out of stock too, just when I was going to pull the trigger!



*OMG!!! *If you were ever my friend, that is officially ended as of this very moment!!!  I've been taking about Schiit multibit DACs forever, and you are *NOW* just looking at Schiit website????? *SHAME, SHAME SHAME !!!!!*


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And BTW, how do you know Yiggy and Wyrd USB inputs are USB3 ??????



Don't know about Wyrd but Yggy is USB3 as documented in the US Library of Congress.

Here right from the Schiit Yggdrasil website..
*Yggdrasil also features our all-new USB Gen 3 input module, for exceptional USB input performance.*


----------



## connieflyer

I sent Schiit an email to see it the unit will pass dsd or dsf files.    If I got one it would probably be silver the Sony is silver and it would sit on the dac. The Euforia currently sits on the Sony Hap-S1.  Or I suppose I could get a can of spray paint for the Sony


----------



## connieflyer

Downloaded their manual and it still says usb 2.  So it probably has not been updated yet. My friend I have looked at that Schiit for a long time, just never felt the need before. Liked other products better. But am seriously looking at this.  Don't know why all the manufacturers are making the indicator lights and script icons on the front panel so damn small now, need a magifying glass to read them.


----------



## connieflyer

I suppose if I bought it I would have to learn how to pronounce it. That was the main reason for not considering them before,


----------



## pctazhp

OK. I just looked more carefully at Schiit website and it says Yiggy has USB3, but what do they know??? I'm leaving this afternoon for 8-day overseas tour, starting with Saudi Arabia and all inquiries for the next 8 days should be directed to James Comey.

Right now I'm listening to my Schiit multibit DAC using superior SPDIF input, so NaNaNaNaNaYah


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I sent Schiit an email to see it the unit will pass dsd or dsf files.    If I got one it would probably be silver the Sony is silver and it would sit on the dac. The Euforia currently sits on the Sony Hap-S1.  Or I suppose I could get a can of spray paint for the Sony



I just tried some dsf or dsd files from this site and it works. Dsd 64, 128 and 256 all works. I downloaded it and open in JRiver. The Stereo 24/352.8 khz sounds amazing.

http://www.2l.no/hires/


----------



## connieflyer

It might be better for me to stay with the equipment I have, had a bad experience upgrading this week.   Bought a more powerful vacuum cleaner,  and with the old one I could run over power cables and the like, but the new one sucked them up, now have to repair vacuum, almost pulled over equipment rack!


----------



## connieflyer

In that case will definetly consider this. How come there is no spell check orupload buttons on this site anymore?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> In that case will definetly consider this. How come there is no spell check orupload buttons on this site anymore?



Good. All I have to do is to get you and Pct to buy the Yggy and the commission I get will cover my Yggy.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I suppose if I bought it I would have to learn how to pronounce it. That was the main reason for not considering them before,



Ok..... watch this video 5 times and repeat it for the rest of the day.


----------



## UntilThen

CF if you get Yggy, we would have identical setup. How good is that? 

6am and I'm still listening to music. Where has the night or morning gone?


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Don't know about Wyrd but Yggy is USB3 as documented in the US Library of Congress.
> 
> Here right from the Schiit Yggdrasil website..
> *Yggdrasil also features our all-new USB Gen 3 input module, for exceptional USB input performance.*



That does not mean USB 3.0!

It is a 24/192  DAC . USB 2.0 is mighty fine for it.


----------



## connieflyer

But you don't have any Gold Aero tubes we can never be the same! Don't know of any local businesses that carry those products. Would probably have to order from Factory no discount there. Last time I asked for Senior Citizens Discount they added 20% to the bill just because they could and did not think I would notice being old


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> That does not mean USB 3.0!
> 
> It is a 24/192  DAC . USB 2.0 is mighty fine for it.



Cool. Just in time for me to cancel my overseas trip ))))


----------



## Oskari (May 20, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Don't know why all of a sudden, without asking me, all my digits are now small (((((



The site seems to have switched from sans-serif-style fonts to serif-style fonts. Depending on your device/system and the actual font shown, you're probably seeing 'lowercase' digits. I get them on OS X but not on Android.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> That does not mean USB 3.0!
> 
> It is a 24/192  DAC . USB 2.0 is mighty fine for it.



Oh yeah just realised it's not USB3 but USB2 Gen 3 

I knew why we hire you. Not just for tube knowledge but also Ultra Sonic Boom.


----------



## UntilThen

I use this to track how long my setup has been burning in. Starts from 20th May 2017 3pm.

http://www.howlongagogo.com/date/2017/may/20

It's been about 18 hours since I power on my Yggy and started listening using HD800 and my Euforia. Mainly using JRiver Media Center 22 or Tidal HiFi subscription on my Windows 10 one year old PC. Haven't tried it with the iMac 27" and Audirvana Plus 3 yet.

It's more flesh out now and sounding very natural. Very smooth and very clear. It's certainly better than yesterday. I don't feel any fatigue with HD800. This setup balanced out very well. HD800 was made for Euforia or Elise. I have no doubt Yggy played a big part here. Songs takes on a new tone. It's like a new break of day. I love Randy Crawford's sweet voice and here with Joe Sample's brilliant piano playing, it's a real treat.


----------



## Snowpuppy77

UntilThen said:


> CF if you get Yggy, we would have identical setup. How good is that?
> 
> 6am and I'm still listening to music. Where has the night or morning gone?



Would so much love to hear that system you have.  I bet it is about as good as it gets.  I only have the Bimby but I am sold on Schiit's multibit DACs and would love to have a Yggy some day.


----------



## UntilThen

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Would so much love to hear that system you have.  I bet it is about as good as it gets.  I only have the Bimby but I am sold on Schiit's multibit DACs and would love to have a Yggy some day.



Hello and welcome here. 

Thanks.  The setup is sounding very good but I like everyone else did start somewhere in head-fi. I started with Aune T1 and DT880  

I have gone through a few tube amps and a few headphones but I have not paid much attention to the DAC. My better half gave me a NAD d1050 when I bought Elise and I've use it for 1.5 years. 

Yggy looks good and sounds good. I must confess I wasn't too interested in Schiit because I heard my son's Magni and Modi Uber and that didn't appeal to me. However when I heard the Yggy and Ragnorak at the shop yesterday, I knew I have to get it. So I bought half of that combo and the better half I would say.


----------



## pctazhp

On their way to me:


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## UntilThen

^ Very nice tubes. I saw that on ebay and they are in mint NOS condition. Congrats. You will like it. It will blend well with your HD800S. Can go with any of the good power tubes.

Basically your system is as good as it gets. Can just put up your feet and enjoy the music now. These multibits are special.


----------



## pctazhp

How did you know I listen with my feet on the desk? Has my wife been complaining to you??


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## UntilThen (May 21, 2017)

I'm watching Designated Survivor on Netflix with my headphone system and it's real. Yggerdy Dagerdy Do is making it real. 

White House has just been blown apart and a Secretary of State is now the President.

How do I know you have your feet up? CF told me. He has a drone over your house.


----------



## UntilThen (May 21, 2017)

Yggy has now past the 24 hours mark. Incrementally it's sounding better and better. I'm listening to Leonard Cohen as I read this review from
https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-da-processor

The author, Herb Reichert says that he would have been happy with a Yggy, Ragnorak and a pair of KEF LS50.

Head-Fi wise, I can think of no better way to listen to music than a Yggy, Euforia and HD800. .... HD650 too.

Ps... I need to plug in T1 and have a listen now. It's somehow become the forgotten child. 


Edit:-
mmmm T1 still sounds amazing with Yggy and Euforia. It's knee huggingly good. Bass is more forceful than HD800.


----------



## HPLobster

UntilThen said:


> Yggy has now past the 24 hours mark. Incrementally it's sounding better and better.



Don't forget that you're not supposed to power down the MB-DACs AT ALL to get the best out of them. There are reports that the peak performance is reached after approx. one week of thermal equilibrium...


----------



## UntilThen

HPLobster said:


> Don't forget that you're not supposed to power down the MB-DACs AT ALL to get the best out of them. There are reports that the peak performance is reached after approx. one week of thermal equilibrium...



Don't worry, I have a standby backup generator here in the event of a power failure. Push come to shove, I'll use bicycle power.

Fact is I have never power off my previous dac the NAD d1050 so the Yggy will be left on.... to provide some winter heat but this thing is hardly warm after one day.


----------



## Spork67

HeadFi isn't telling me about new posts on subscribed threads any more - in fact it's making the difficult to find. I missed you guys on here, just did a bit of catch up reading.
DL - hope your Asian holiday is great - certainly going to be a nice long one if going for the rest of the year.
UT - congrats on the Yggy! I'm just a little bit jealous.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks Spork. Good to see you again.

I use to read all these reviews of Yggy showering praises and I say to myself, 'Is it really that good?' Can a DAC make such a difference? 

Well now I'm finding answers to those questions for myself and it's not even 48 hours yet. There's a startling realism I hear in all the songs I have never heard before. Dark Side of The Moon is such a treat to listen to now. Suddenly Euforia came alive and amplify these realism to my HD800. It's a treat to my ears ! Those reviewers showering praises on the Yggy were not on crack. My setup now sounds as good as the Yggy with Blue Hawaii and Stax sr-009 that I heard at the Meet, except it's better to my ears. There's better dynamics, energy and slam. Yggy delivers bass in quality and quantity and instruments separation is .... well now I know what 'uncanny' really means. 

I would totally recommend such a setup. There's synergy here. Yggy > Euforia > HD800. Sell the cat, sell the dog, buy these and live happily ever after. Forget about whisky. Don't need that. These will get you intoxicated.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi UT and h1,
> 
> Finally got an opportunity to buy a T1 Gen 1 at a good price. It sounds very good, but I probably need some adjustment period compared to listening through speakers, even to the extent that I may need to use different tubes than what I am currently using with the speakers I have.
> 
> ...



Hi mordy. Sorry for the late reply - can't seem to catch up with everything after my (short!) break...(takes me longer with every year that passes these days lol!!).

WELL DONE with the T1s...it will indeed take quite a long while to adjust to these Beyers, especially after mainly speaker-listening! But they do repay your perseverance in the end...although it can take a fair while to get the rest of the system just right for them (and not just the tubes used!). Trial and error is the order of the day here lol...(but some would say this is just as true for the HD 800s!!). 

It has in fact taken me a long while to get things to the point where I actually prefer them to the Sennheisers - as @UntilThen says, bass does hit harder (and tighter IMHO), and there's an extra 'bite' to them that I personally love but which isn't to everyone's taste...again, depending on the rest of the gear. I also find the soundstage a tad more 3D Holographic, which again I am now addicted to. I sincerely hope you too manage to find the combination that does all these things for you - and then you also will be hooked for life LOL!!

I must admit that - harking back to your post re. 'British innovation' in hi-fi land - my Naim Uniti Core server/etc. etc. has taken both Euforia and my T1s (V1) to a whole new level...and that's before Hugo 2 even!!! And on the subject of DACs and their importance to overall sound (which I'm glad UT took note of and beat me to a TOTL one with his Yggy, even if his wallet is considerably lighter now!), my current tube DAC has just surprised me no end by a change in the output tubes from very good TFK E85CCs to a pair of extremely nice-looking RFT 'special' (with gold pins) ECC865s. I was not prepared for such an improvement in sound - Euforia and the T1s moved up yet another notch. Which once again confirms how both items will up their game in line with any and every upgrade made elsewhere...(my Airlink Transformers Balanced Mains with advanced filtering also helps things along very nicely!).

Anyway, M...once again, I wish you all the best with your own further upgrades - this amp deserves all the spare cash you can throw at her lol!!!....ENJOY!!...



UntilThen said:


> All together...
> 
> What can I say, UT?...but WOW! WOW! WOW!....beautiful setup....and WELL DONE to you too lol!!
> 
> ...





UntilThen said:


> What digits? Has @connieflyer  been messing with your digits?





UntilThen said:


> All together...





UntilThen said:


> All together...


----------



## pctazhp

hypnos1 said:


> Anyway, M...once again, I wish you all the best with your own further upgrades - this amp deserves all the spare cash you can throw at her lol!!!....ENJOY!!...



Now I remember why I felt so relaxed while you were on break. Perhaps even more than you were.


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,

Have been listening to the T1 now for a couple of days. Everything has to be re-evaluated....
Up til now I was satisfied with my speaker system - not any more. These headphones have much better resolution and micro detail. In addition, I do not not need a louder volume to hear everything; even at low levels everything is there.
These headphones highlight the imperfections in my system and as much as I want to resist it, ultimately they demand upgrades.
As you mentioned, it takes time to get used to the sound signature, but once you adjust and comprehend it there is no turning back.

It appears to me that even though my headphones were bought as used, they had seen very little use - how long a burn in period should I expect?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Have been listening to the T1 now for a couple of days. Everything has to be re-evaluated....
> Up til now I was satisfied with my speaker system - not any more. These headphones have much better resolution and micro detail. In addition, I do not not need a louder volume to hear everything; even at low levels everything is there.
> ...



I'm glad you bought the T1, Mordy. It's still an exceptional headphone in my opinion. Your description of better resolution and micro details is correct. Unless you have a very good speaker system, it would be hard to beat T1 or HD800 in those areas and even then it is still a different experience.

For a new headphone, I'd say at least 100 hours or more to break in. That and also you need to get use to wearing a headphone.

You will tell the HD800 and T1 apart without a blind test.  That is a fact. They are not the same. Quite distinctly different. I'm not even going to try to determine which I like better at this early stage. In 3 months time, I'll be able to tell you which of the 3 headphones I wear most of the time with my setup - HD800, T1 or modded HD650.


----------



## UntilThen (May 21, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Anyway, M...once again, I wish you all the best with your own further upgrades - this amp deserves all the spare cash you can throw at her lol!!!....ENJOY!!...



Ha, just found out an easy way to quote someone on a certain portion of their text. Just highlight that portion, right click and select 'reply' and bingo, I'm here. 

Hahaha you got to be kidding me. I ain't throwing anymore cash at her for a long time.....  even though my memory of the audition of Yggy and Ragnorak is still vivid in my mind. So I'm starting a crowd funding for 'my' Ragnorak anf KEF LS50.

Don't get me wrong. Yggy and Ragnorak sounds good. Fancy me, a tube amp lover saying that. However Yggy and Euforia just sound more euphonic to my ears.

Which leads me to my next point. I believe in Schiit multibit dacs now. Even if you get their lower multibit model, in essence the magic is still there, just different degrees.

Alright having said that, I have a feeling that Chord Hugo 2 will be special too. So I'm waiting for you to get yours and then come downunder for a mini meet.


----------



## Snowpuppy77

UntilThen said:


> Ha, just found out an easy way to quote someone on a certain portion of their text. Just highlight that portion, right click and select 'reply' and bingo, I'm here.
> 
> Hahaha you got to be kidding me. I ain't throwing anymore cash at her for a long time.....  even though my memory of the audition of Yggy and Ragnorak is still vivid in my mind. So I'm starting a crowd funding for 'my' Ragnorak anf KEF LS50.
> 
> ...



Completely agree on Schiit multibit dacs.  I recommended getting the best Schiit multibit dac you can afford.  For me the next one will probably be the Gumby.  Yggy is just to much of a stretch right now for my can system.  I may get the Yggy in a few years for a two channel system once me and my wife are empty nesters. 

Right now I am listening to a Reference Recording label Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances through my Schiit Bimby, Mapletree Ear+ tube amp, and HD800S.  And I know my wife wants me to stop and help her with dinner but it just sounds so good and the music is so great I am having trouble pulling away.  I must say I am getting a beautiful soundstage and tone.  Really no sense of digititus.  Just sound natural and musical.  I would love to be able to audition this album on your Yggy Euphoria rig.  While the Mapletree is certainly a very nice amp I would imagine your Euphoria would take the dynamics of this type of music to a whole new level being OTL with a 300 ohm can.


----------



## pctazhp

All I need to do is sell my Elise, Little Dot IV SE, Valhalla 2, HD700 and then finally Bimby, and I've probably paid for Gumby or within striking distance of Yiggy. Ah, but terminal laziness prevails. How in the world did I ever accumulate this pile of iron and plastic??? Somehow, I wasn't too lazy to do that.


----------



## UntilThen

To sell it fast

Elise 450
LD 4  250
Val 2 200
Hd700 200
Bimby 400

There...


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> To sell it fast
> 
> Elise 450
> LD 4  250
> ...



Amazing. Those were my exact numbers. And if I got that close to Yiggy, how could I resist??? I need to stop writing stupid, immature posts and get to selling stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Completely agree on Schiit multibit dacs.  I recommended getting the best Schiit multibit dac you can afford.  For me the next one will probably be the Gumby.  Yggy is just to much of a stretch right now for my can system.  I may get the Yggy in a few years for a two channel system once me and my wife are empty nesters.
> 
> Right now I am listening to a Reference Recording label Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances through my Schiit Bimby, Mapletree Ear+ tube amp, and HD800S.  And I know my wife wants me to stop and help her with dinner but it just sounds so good and the music is so great I am having trouble pulling away.  I must say I am getting a beautiful soundstage and tone.  Really no sense of digititus.  Just sound natural and musical.  I would love to be able to audition this album on your Yggy Euphoria rig.  While the Mapletree is certainly a very nice amp I would imagine your Euphoria would take the dynamics of this type of music to a whole new level being OTL with a 300 ohm can.



SP, your setup should be quite tasty. A quick lookup on the Mapletree Ear+ tube amp reveals a striking amp, one where the sound is described as neutral or an ss amp with soul. In that context, you could be getting the desired tone with Bimby + HD800s and that amp. I could be speculating based on what I read. 

Euforia is a true honest to goodness warm and lush sounding tube amp. The degree of warm and lushness is easily altered by tubes. It's like a chameleon of many colours. The base tone is euphonic, fast, wet, clear, textured and pretty linear. Bass does not dominate as in some amps. It's tight, controlled and impactful. I can't quite decide whether it's more capable in the mid or the high frequencies. It excels with vocals as well as the high notes. Soundstage is not as wide as La Figaro 339 but hey right now with Yggy and HD800, I don't think I want it any wider. 

Basically it boils down to how you pick your gear to form your setup. It's futile to consider just the amp. You need to consider the source and the transducer. 

However, thanks for contributing here. I think you'll slot right in here. It's a more mature group or as @Oskari  would say, the geezers club.


----------



## UntilThen

After 48 hours, Yggy sounds more textured and opens up. It's like someone open a window to let in more light. I can see and hear more now. I told myself this must be because I'm using HD800 now. So I swap in my modded HD650 (which I have been using quite a lot before HD800 arrival) and the sound is not like before. It's like a new setup now. I can't believe it. Euforia, HD650 are constant. Only the DAC is changed. I'm using Yggy now. However all the songs that I've played many times before, sounds different now. The stage is definitely wider, deeper and higher. It's 3D now whereas it was 2.5D before. Bass has more impact now. Yggy actually delivers a more robust bass. 

I'm hearing instruments and sound cues that I've not heard before. This is the single most significant change in my setup since I started on this head-fi journey.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy sounds so smooth, natural and without glare. It encourages you to turn up the volume. Your ears don't hurt but your arteries will flow will musical electrons. This is what it means to get high listening to music.


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2017)

Where's my Scottish cousin @HOWIE13 ?

Listening to a playlist of classical music on Tidal Hifi now. It's a different experience now with HD800 and Yggy partnering Euforia. The soft parts are clearly heard. The loud passages does not hurt the ears. It's an amazing experience on classical now. I think I might be a convert finally. 

Bolero
Piano Concerto in No 21 in C Major K 467
Adagio in G Minor
1812 Overture E-Flat Major, Op. 49


----------



## UntilThen

OMG William Tell Overture sounds so good, makes me want to shoot an apple now.


----------



## UntilThen

What can I say, UT?...but WOW! WOW! WOW!....beautiful setup....and WELL DONE to you too lol!!

But how dare you beat me to the magical DAC, just because Chord are having real trouble finalising their software licences for Hugo 2?...._*it just ain't fair!!*_...(my end-May scheduled shipping now looks more like end-June, sob sob...).

However, I'm really glad for you, and for the fact that going hi-end with the DAC does indeed bring great benefits, and take Euforia into other leagues entirely. With how my own current setup is now sounding, I simply cannot imagine what Hugo 2 can possibly bring to the equation...but from your own findings with Yggy, perhaps I am in for the sort of shock that can prove a tad too much for someone of my tender years LOL!!!...(but that's how I'd want to go anyway! Not just yet though...I want - no, NEED!! - more quality time with Euforia before that fateful day comes...PLEASE!!...  ).

Congrats also on the Senns...it will be interesting to hear your impressions over the LONG term, compared to the T1s...with different tubes/genres etc. But I envy your having BOTH...(even if that is plain greedy LOL!! )...CHEERS!!...


H1, what have you done to your reply above? I almost miss it. 

You nail it. Tis a trully magical DAC. In fact it's a tree and not an ordinary tree. 

Oh c'mon end-June. I think you need to cancel the Hugo 2 order and get a Yggdrasil instead.


----------



## UntilThen

Ah ha Jason, thank you. I'll say when now. The End. No more spending except an Audioquest Cinnamon USB and Golden Gate RCA cable coming .... not even one more single tube or Hi Rez tracks. It will just be Tidal HiFi.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...bable-start-up.701900/page-1355#post-13504100


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> After 48 hours, Yggy sounds more textured and opens up. It's like someone open a window to let in more light. I can see and hear more now. I told myself this must be because I'm using HD800 now. So I swap in my modded HD650 (which I have been using quite a lot before HD800 arrival) and the sound is not like before. It's like a new setup now. I can't believe it. Euforia, HD650 are constant. Only the DAC is changed. I'm using Yggy now. However all the songs that I've played many times before, sounds different now. The stage is definitely wider, deeper and higher. It's 3D now whereas it was 2.5D before. Bass has more impact now. Yggy actually delivers a more robust bass.
> 
> I'm hearing instruments and sound cues that I've not heard before. This is the single most significant change in my setup since I started on this head-fi journey.



Hi UT,

Last night I had a revelation. 

Firstly, there are two changes to my system: I am listening through the T1 headphones (instead of speakers) and using more standard tube complements - in this instance a pair of Bendix 6080WB as power tubes and my Unsung Heroes RCA 6SN7 as drivers.  

I played a recording of a Swedish New Orleans Band from the early 60's - The Imperial Band.  Suddenly I found myself transported listening to them at a live concert in Stadsgården in my hometown Borås. Could not believe it - this was how i remember how it sounded in 1962 as a teenager. (There was no live recording of the concert, but I have their only CD)

Switched over to some much more recent YouTube videos - what was flat before became 3D. Everything suddenly became infused with life and more emotion.  I could not let go and played song after song after song and went to sleep way too late.....Don't know what happened, but this is most impressive......

I can imagine what a good DAC would do if the main change here only were the headphones........


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Where's my Scottish cousin @HOWIE13 ?
> 
> Listening to a playlist of classical music on Tidal Hifi now. It's a different experience now with HD800 and Yggy partnering Euforia. The soft parts are clearly heard. The loud passages does not hurt the ears. It's an amazing experience on classical now. I think I might be a convert finally.
> 
> ...



Bolero was the first piece of classical music I heard. My grandfather playing it for me with his stack of 78s. It is still hauntingly appealing to this day. Also love the other ones you mentioned.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> What can I say, UT?...but WOW! WOW! WOW!....beautiful setup....and WELL DONE to you too lol!!
> 
> But how dare you beat me to the magical DAC, just because Chord are having real trouble finalising their software licences for Hugo 2?...._*it just ain't fair!!*_...(my end-May scheduled shipping now looks more like end-June, sob sob...).
> 
> ...



I agree but @hypnos1 is British and stubborn. Not like we open minded colony folks. Well, @connieflyer is an exception to that last part


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> Last night I had a revelation.
> 
> ...



I'm so happy for you Mordy. You are really discovering what the T1 can do as a headphone. I remember when I bought mine. I had to drive 2 hours to the seller's home to get it. On my way back, I stop the car by the side of the road just to have a listen again on my Fii0 X5 and Fiio E12 amp. Suuup and Jerick were laughing at me. It was a memorable day. Happy listening.

Edit:- Just swap from HD800 to T1 and those classical pieces sound just as good. 

Edit again:- HD800 soundstage is so evidently much wider, deeper and higher. For large scale orchestra music, this is ideal.


----------



## HPLobster




----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Now I remember why I felt so relaxed while you were on break. Perhaps even more than you were.



Aha, pct...must admit I am indeed beginning to feel just a tad guilty lol!

First I entice y'all into Euforia territory (for which, fortunately, I don't yet hear too many complaints!), then I get carried away with source; DAC; mains conditioners etc. etc....secretly in the hope that :
a. Such upgrades do in fact highlight this amp's true capabilities even further, and 
b. That my own bruised wallet may perhaps gain some sort of comfort from not being alone in its pitiable pain LOL!!!

SORRY!!

ps. Don't intend having any more breaks for quite a while, so _*be warned!!!*_ ...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Have been listening to the T1 now for a couple of days. Everything has to be re-evaluated....
> Up til now I was satisfied with my speaker system - not any more. These headphones have much better resolution and micro detail. In addition, I do not not need a louder volume to hear everything; even at low levels everything is there.
> ...



Hi M....really glad you're discovering the real magic of hi-end cans lol! The experience is totally different to speakers...to the point where I now hardly ever listen to them alas!! I would never have believed this possible - until Elise, and especially now Euforia, came along (not forgetting the T1s, of course!!). Your enjoyment (and surprise, no doubt!) can only increase with further use, and as @UntilThen says, a good 100hrs will bring improvement (if they haven't already had them that is!).

And so now, mon ami, with my and UT's decimation of the bank balance (not to mention those of eventual @pctazhp and @connieflyer?!!!) as an example to all mad head-fiers, it just remains for you yourself to follow suit and do the decent thing....either that, or send me 2 tickets for a month's break in Hawaii lol!!...(but with no guarantees, I'm afraid!!).


----------



## hypnos1 (May 22, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> What can I say, UT?...but WOW! WOW! WOW!....beautiful setup....and WELL DONE to you too lol!!
> 
> But how dare you beat me to the magical DAC, just because Chord are having real trouble finalising their software licences for Hugo 2?...._*it just ain't fair!!*_...(my end-May scheduled shipping now looks more like end-June, sob sob...).
> 
> ...



Hmmm UT, you might well ask what happened lol!...nearly sent a poison-pen message to those here at HQ - methinks they've still a long way to go to get things right again!

This time, all I wanted to do was a multi-quote reply, and I was faced with a whole mass of script with 'QUOTE' here, 'QUOTE' there; 'ATTACH' here, 'ATTACH' there....didn't know if I was coming or going LOL!! And to add insult to injury, there were also quotes I hadn't even selected!...(as if I'm not losing my hair fast enough already!). And so, lesson learned...only single replies from now on!!!

Ah well, rant over, back to the serious stuff - ie fabulous DACS!!... I'm so glad Yggy is proving such a game-changer in your system. It does indeed sound a real winner, even if you are taunting poor ol' @pctazhp way beyond my own (mildly!) sadistic actions of late!! His admiration for Schiit's multi-bit gear has been truly vindicated!...(not that it was ever in question lol!).

HOWEVER...I've been doing my own research into Bob Watts's (Chord UK) pioneering work in his unique 'Pulse Array' DAC technology, and I am equally enthralled by his approach, compared to MB...and the end results thereof. And so pct is absolutely right - this stubborn British Bulldog (actually, I see myself more as a Border Collie!) will be sticking with the (im)patient wait for an amazingly 'avant-garde' piece of kit, that I can only hope matches up to expectation and compete with your very nice-looking (and very LARGE!) Yggy. If it can indeed achieve this feat at a tiny fraction of the size (with added headphone functionality also!), then it will certainly defy all logic, to be sure!!...(and if it doesn't, you can taunt me for ever more!...).

And so the gloves are off, my good friend....well, _some_ time in the (near?!) future at least lol......CHEERS!...

ps. Here's a link that might prove a little interesting, even if not the actual Hugo 2...http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/chord/2.html


----------



## UntilThen (May 22, 2017)

Right on @hypnos1 . I think Euforia's and Elise's thread will be more interesting when there are diversity of good source and headphones. Over in Elise's thread, Lobster is rocking and rolling with his Gumby and Fredo has his Lamprizator. Oh we forgot that @aqsw  has his custom made 6550 / KT88 tube dac. 

So we certainly will await your impressions of the Hugo 2 when it arrives. I can't believe this little thing cost $3700 aussie dollars.

One thing's for certain, these Feliks Audio tube amps can roll and keep up with good dacs and headphones.

Ps... I am pretty sure there was someone with Metrum Pavane and Elise.


----------



## UntilThen

Oh @louisxiawei told me about his T+A dac8 DSD with HQplayer.

Talk about diversity here.


----------



## UntilThen

I think the best way for me to burn in Yggy is to feed it my entire flac library while I'm at work. With the amp power off.... of course. This DAC will remain power on since the 20th May 2017. I don't want to know about power failure.


----------



## pctazhp

As far as I'm concerned, the more DACs here the merrier. All good fun


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen  I read that Yiggy is really an update of Mike's landmark Theta 5, which I owned and loved. So you are carrying on a worthy tradition 

I also have started to wrap my empty head around the concept of "balanced" Gumby and Yiggy. I have assumed, for example, the Gumby might just be the equivalent of 2 Bimbys, and not really needed for a single ended amp such as Euforia. Well, that's why I'm a lawyer and not an engineer. Schiit explains that Gumby and Yiggy are "balanced" internally in the digital domain and that is a major advantage. But they also explain that the balanced "digital" signal is internally summed for purposes of the RCA outputs and there may not be much difference in SQ between RCA and XLR outputs. I don't really know what any of that really means, but I thought it was interesting.

After I sell some of my iron pile, I think I'm probably headed towards Gumby. I would find it disrespectfully to try to equal such an esteemed HeadFier as yourself by trying to equal you with Yiggy


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2017)

Did you owned this $10,000 Theta Digital Gen VIII D/A converter?  That is a serious looking dac for 2004 and it over samples to 384khz. It's 29 lbs and even has a remote.

Fyi, my Yiggy serial number is 972, which makes me as common as your milk delivery guy. I bet he has one too.

Another fact I read. Yggy's filter alone cost all of Bifrost.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy uses 4 of these, at a cost of $143 each.

http://www.analog.com/en/products/digital-to-analog-converters/ad5791.html#product-overview

AD5791-EP supports defense and aerospace applications (AQEC standard)

Part of my reason for buying Yggy is my backyard aerospace project. It's coming along nicely.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Did you owned this $10,000 Theta Digital Gen VIII D/A converter?  That is a serious looking dac for 2004 and it over samples to 384khz. It's 29 lbs and even has a remote.
> 
> Fyi, my Yiggy serial number is 972, which makes me as common as your milk delivery guy. I bet he has one too.
> 
> Another fact I read. Yggy's filter alone cost all of Bifrost.



Ha))) I didn't even know that existed. Ownership must have been restricted to NASA. Consistent with my humble roots, I  just had the "people's DAC" - Theta 5.

As with you, I would not risk disrespecting my milkman !!!


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2017)

Compared to the 2004 monstrosity, I have to say that this 2017 model is more beautiful. It's beauty in simplicity. I'd run my hand over the casing occasionally just to feel how smooth it is. 

Ps... Yggy weighs 25 lbs.


----------



## UntilThen

After 72 hours with Yggy, I get this spooky feeling that someone is standing behind me when I'm listening to music. When I turn around, I realised that they are just the backup singers. Phew what a relief. 

Also it is sounding as analogue as a turntable. I may not have to buy this TT after all.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Another fact I read. Yggy's filter alone cost all of Bifrost.



Perhaps, but:


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I'd run my hand over the casing occasionally just to feel how smooth it is.



CAREFUL. THAT KIND OF THING CAN GET YOU IN TROUBLE !!!!


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2017)

Seriously 16/44.1 flac files sound so good now. I didn't know redbook can sound so good. Yggy is so quiet. The blackest black.

Ps... I think I'm not giving enough credit to Euforia and HD800. After all it's the whole chain that is responsible for what I hear. 

... not forgetting tubes !!! Running Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Chatham 6250 now.


----------



## UntilThen

Holy schiit it's 3:27am..... I am working tomorrow !!! Byeeeeeee !!!


----------



## mordy (May 23, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Seriously 16/44.1 flac files sound so good now. I didn't know redbook can sound so good. Yggy is so quiet. The blackest black.
> 
> Ps... I think I'm not giving enough credit to Euforia and HD800. After all it's the whole chain that is responsible for what I hear.
> 
> ... not forgetting tubes !!! Running Sylvania 6sn7wgt and Chatham 6250 now.


Hi UT,

I am sure you mean 6520 tubes, not 6250 - see what happens when u go to sleep too late! BTW, I never liked the Chatham 6AS7 tubes that I have. And neither the Chatham 6080.
OK - I'll try them in the Euforia......


----------



## UntilThen (May 23, 2017)

It's all Yggy's fault that I stay up late every night listening to 'Black Magic Woman'.... and yeah it's 6520.

Btw there were some recent sightings of Tung Sol 6520 with dimples plates. I have reasons to believe those are 5998.

How can you not like Chatham 6as7g. Next to GEC 6as7g, it's the next best 6as7g IMHO..... and usually my opinion isn't humble.


----------



## UntilThen

It's now 3 days 7 hours 56 minutes and 16 seconds since Yggy was powered on.

I think I am more transformed than Yggy by now.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> It's all Yggy's fault that I stay up late every night listening to 'Black Magic Woman'.... and yeah it's 6520.
> 
> Btw there were some recent sightings of Tung Sol 6520 with dimples plates. I have reasons to believe those are 5998.
> 
> How can you not like Chatham 6as7g. Next to GEC 6as7g, it's the next best 6as7g IMHO..... and usually my opinion isn't humble.


Hi UT,

What is a more beautiful sight?

This?





Or this?





These are my Chatham 6AS7G tubes. They sound OK but not in comparison with the GEC or Bendix. To me the bass is less controlled and these tubes are a tad slow and less dynamic.

Is this pretty?



Prettier?




The above are my Chatham 6080 tubes. The bass is tighter than the Chatham 6AS7 but the mid range is a little murky and the treble is too thin.

What about these?





Mullard 6080 Langrex Special.  Sounds good, but where is the magic?

Here - these tubes do everything right:






The GEC 6AS7G have that mythical energy.

Tried to pick city pictures with tube glow. The first one is Tokyo and the second Sydney.

Having the T1s forces me to re-evaluate everything - it seems that my speakers require a  different tube diet to sound their best. Meanwhile I am back to factory recommended tubes - 6SN7 and 6AS7.

BTW - here is my DAC . It has an ELNA capacitor (finally figured out that I do have a separate DAC). PLEASE DON'T LAUGH!

Here are the specs:


*Usb DAC is ELE well-prepared for enthusiasts, it is cost-effective mini USB DAC, which adopt PCM2704 native in Japan and capacitor used for ELNA audio; reasonable arrayed wire shows the best function of PCM2704.
Compatible the USB 1.0 16bit support 32 khz / 44.1khz / 48khz sampling
Size:25x25x57mm
Dynamic range: 100db
Noise signal ratio： 105db （faith typical values） THD + N: 0.002%
Internal integrated independent 12mhz clock generator built-in 8 x Oversampling digital filter
Adopt double power supply.Analog part is + 5V , Digital parts for + 3.3 V
SSOP- 28 encapsulation
The chip adopt the famous PCM2704 , Uses metal film resistor, capacitance, polypropylene capacitor, double panel design, the USB interface provide power supply , output directly meet headphones
clock : silver*






In my haste to procure it some years ago I am afraid that I overpaid a couple of dollars lol.....

It's time to take my hi-fi addiction more seriously, no? I think that the T1s make me all yiggly......


----------



## Snowpuppy77

UntilThen said:


> SP, your setup should be quite tasty. A quick lookup on the Mapletree Ear+ tube amp reveals a striking amp, one where the sound is described as neutral or an ss amp with soul. In that context, you could be getting the desired tone with Bimby + HD800s and that amp. I could be speculating based on what I read.
> 
> Euforia is a true honest to goodness warm and lush sounding tube amp. The degree of warm and lushness is easily altered by tubes. It's like a chameleon of many colours. The base tone is euphonic, fast, wet, clear, textured and pretty linear. Bass does not dominate as in some amps. It's tight, controlled and impactful. I can't quite decide whether it's more capable in the mid or the high frequencies. It excels with vocals as well as the high notes. Soundstage is not as wide as La Figaro 339 but hey right now with Yggy and HD800, I don't think I want it any wider.
> 
> ...



The Mapletree Ear+ has been a very good investment for me.  Dr. Peppard built it for me himself and he is such a good person to work with.  He upgraded it with high resolution Auricaps and Blackgate capacitors.  Blackgates were very highly regarded and unfortunately you can't get them anymore.  The Ear+ is a pretty neutral amp which is what I am after.  It is a little plump in the bass however.  The mid to upper bass does have beautiful tone and texture with good inner detail.  However as you get deeper into the bass it keeps getting riper and riper to the point of being overly euphonic and ultimately drifting from accuracy and smearing inner detail.  My Schiit Asgard on the other hand is upside down from the Mapletree.  It has tighter more detailed bass.  The punch of a orchestral bass drum as much more authority and detail on the Asgard.  However as you climb into the upper registers the Mapletree begins to get the upper hand.  When you reach the highs the Mapletree has less splashiness which smears inner detail.  The Asgard gets a bit dry in the highs with what I think is the SS intermodular distortion kicking in.  Not that the highs on the Asgard are bad just not nearly as good as the Mapletree.  The Mapletree highs are sweet, shimmering, and detailed.  They are simply ear candy.  The Asgard sounds more open than the Mapletree and has an edge in overall resolution however.  The Mapletree has the edge in tone quality.  I am getting what some consider one of the best driver tubes for the Mapletree which is the Red Label GE 5 Star 5751.  Should arrive this week.  It will be the first NOS driver tube I have purchased for the Mapletree in the 10+ years I have owned it.  Very curious to hear how it sounds.  By the way I originally purchased the Mapletree to drive a pair of Grado RS1.  Worked really well.  However with the RS1s I prefer the Asgard probably due to it being a better impedance match.  With the HD800S it is more difficult to decide which one I like best.  Both the Mapletree and the Asgard have less than optimal power for the HD800S IMHO.  That is why I am seeking an amp upgrade.  If I get a tube amp it needs to have considerabily more power than the Mapletree and more resolution.  That puts OTLs like Euphoria on the short list.  If I get a solid state amp it also needs more power and resolution than the Asgard and a little more wetter sound in the highs.  From what I have read either the Ragnarok or MJ2 would fit the bill.  I will probably go with the Schiit vs. Euphoria as I can't audition without a return policy and I will not purchase without auditioning.  Hoping to remedy that someday by going to a meet.   Ultimately want to have both a high end OTL and SS.

Some people do not hear much of a difference between DACs.  I am not one of them and you do not appear to be either.  I think the source and the DAC are hugely important and should usually cost at least as much as your amp.


----------



## UntilThen (May 24, 2017)

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Some people do not hear much of a difference between DACs. I am not one of them and you do not appear to be either. I think the source and the DAC are hugely important and should usually cost at least as much as your amp.



Thanks for the detail write-up. You are obviously very much into head-fi. It's a great hobby. 

I can't agree more regarding DAC. There really is a difference. Especially now that I've had Yggy for 4 plus days. Schiit multibit DACs are really good value in my opinion.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> It's time to take my hi-fi addiction more seriously, no? I think that the T1s make me all yiggly......



Definitely Mordy. 

It's time you upgrade your DAC, now that you have Euforia and T1. You're just one more step to Nirvana.


----------



## UntilThen

It's 4 day 20 hours now of warming up my Yggy. I chose to listen to 'Private Investigations' by Dire Straits. 

This is the best I have heard of this song. Incredible. It's goose bump moments. Oh I had on my modified HD650 and dat bass !!! and dat crazy guitar works of Knopfler and his monotone voice. Just perfecto !!!

I'm sold on Yggy now. If you're still deciding what DAC to get. There are only 2 choices. Yggy or Gumby. Just toss a coin. Whichever side it lands, you'll be fine.

..... and CF has just ordered a Gumby. Good choice. !


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> It's 4 day 20 hours now of warming up my Yggy. I chose to listen to 'Private Investigations' by Dire Straits.
> 
> This is the best I have heard of this song. Incredible. It's goose bump moments. Oh I had on my modified HD650 and dat bass !!! and dat crazy guitar works of Knopfler and his monotone voice. Just perfecto !!!
> 
> ...



My financial adviser tells me I need to find a 2-headed coin


----------



## UntilThen

You might end up with a 2 tail coin.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's why I think Bimby, Gumby and Yggy are different. 

It all boils down to the size of the monopoly board.

Bimby

 

Gumby
 

Yggy


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> You might end up with a 2 tail coin.



My financial adviser doesn't like you very much. He says I hang out with the wrong kind of people.

But, then again, for you it is all Monopoly Money


----------



## UntilThen

I told my accountant that I bought a Schiit and ask him to make a claim for business expenses. I say, 'It's a printer'. I can't print his responses here. Some kind of profanity.


----------



## pctazhp

Euforia and HoloAudio XEME2VE USB to SPDIF Digital Interface are burning in nicely. Still waiting for Sylvania 6SN7Ws, which are supposed to be here on Friday. Listening with Sylvania 6SN7WTG/GEC 6080, this and everything else I listen to (well almost everything) is spell binding.


----------



## connieflyer

Actually you are kind of correct it does imprint a message on people's minds so you're 50% of the way there to your tax cut good for you


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Euforia and HoloAudio XEME2VE USB to SPDIF Digital Interface are burning in nicely. Still waiting for Sylvania 6SN7Ws, which are supposed to be here on Friday. Listening with Sylvania 6SN7WTG/GEC 6080, this and everything else I listen to (well almost everything) is spell binding.



Did you tell your accountant that you bought all those stuff? That would put him in a spell.

Looks like the opposition (@hypnos1 ) will be here soon. There's report that the Hugo 2 has shipped.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Did you tell your accountant that you bought all those stuff? That would put him in a spell.
> 
> Looks like the opposition (@hypnos1 ) will be here soon. *There's report that the Hugo 2 has shipped*.



Oh my. It never ends!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Actually you are kind of correct it does imprint a message on people's minds so you're 50% of the way there to your tax cut good for you



Ummm, I'm not much at math or the Internal Revenue Code. Are Social Security benefits taxed at 50% ???


----------



## mordy

There are very few Shayt DACs for sale on eBay - don't know if there just are very few out there or if everybody is so happy with what they have that nobody wants to change. Or that the incidence of Adiophilia Nervosa has decreased.... This is a disease characterized by constant upgradeitis not based on real gains. I have determined that none of the members of this forum, including myself, suffers from this condition. When somebody suggests this and that piece of equipment as improving the sound I know that I can rely on it.

It's just a question of money - how much am I ready to spend?

Which leads me to this question: How important is the multibit option in the Shayt DACs? There is a significant price difference in the Bifrost and Gungnir ($200/$400).  The Yggdrasil only comes as multibit.


----------



## Oskari (May 24, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Looks like the opposition (@hypnos1 ) will be here soon. There's report that the Hugo 2 has shipped.


_
Opposition_ is very important for the balance. 

(It's also a pretty strong word, and I wouldn't want to consider CJ my opposition.)


----------



## pctazhp (May 24, 2017)

Mordy. The Schiit threads are extremely active with highly enthusiastic Schiit owners. Much like our FA threads, but with a much larger customer base. There is an interesting YouTube video of Jude interviewing Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat in 2012. They were just a small, start-up company then. It is amazing how far they have come. They are always busy developing new products (into different areas) and seem to often have difficulty keeping up with demand for existing products.

All Schiit DACs except the bottom one are built so as to be easily upgraded as technology develops. That may be  one reason they are often difficult to find on the used market. In addition, up and down the line their multibit DACs receive high praise and Schiit doesn't seem to be too worried about undermining somewhat the sale of their more expensive DACs by developing high performing cheaper models. I don't think they ever intentionally cripple a lower cost model to maintain sales of more expensive models. That just doesn't seem the way Mike and Jason do business. They both have been around for decades and are highly respected.
I could not recommend anyone buying a Schiit DAC that is not multibit. For example, I think one would be much better served to buy a multibit Bimby than a delta sigma Gungnir. At least this is my view on the subject. 

Edit:  Also remember an advantage of buying new directly from Schiit is their 15-day return policy, with a 5% restocking feel.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


>



That is a very nice version of this song!


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> _Opposition_ is very important for the balance.
> 
> (It's also a pretty strong word, and I wouldn't want to consider CJ my opposition.)



Did I hear balance? 

I was just teasing CJ. He will always be a friend to me.


----------



## UntilThen (May 24, 2017)

mordy said:


> Which leads me to this question: How important is the multibit option in the Shayt DACs? There is a significant price difference in the Bifrost and Gungnir ($200/$400). The Yggdrasil only comes as multibit.



Multibit is the r2r ladder resistor dac. I don't know the science behind it but it sure sounds good and natural.... and it's spell as Schiit - not Shayt.

Over at the aussie forum classified, I've seen just a few Gumby and Modi multibit dacs come up for sale and they are bought almost instantly.

ps... 2 brands featuring 2r2 technology are gaining lots of favourable reviews. Holo Spring Audio and lately, the Denafrips. They are made in China and Taiwan. However I went with Schiit because as Pct says, Mike Moffat is the designer of it and the 5 years warranty.


----------



## Oskari

Irresistible and incredible.


_The Corrs: Irresistible_


----------



## Oskari (May 24, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Did I hear balance?


“Fair and balanced,” you know... 

But do ignore that!


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,

Thanks for your insightful and thoughtful answer. Do you know if a new moderately priced DAC is being planned?

Hi UT,

One thing that kept me away from the S...t DACs is the name. On their website they claim that the way to pronounce the name is the way you think it should be pronounced....
Anyhow, I know how to spell it, but as I said, I don't like such a name.  Evidently Head-Fi does not censure it. But try to type Matsushita and see what happens lol..


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Thanks for your insightful and thoughtful answer. Do you know if a new moderately priced DAC is being planned?
> 
> ...



You're very welcome Mordy. I am almost certain Schiit is pretty set on their DAC line. They have clearly stated there will never be a Yiggy2 (meaning that is as high as they intend to go - subject to future upgrades to the current Yiggy model) and the Mumby is probably about a low in price they can go. There is some rumor that Bimby may be in for an upgrade because Mumby is now so close to it in performance. In addition, Schiit is busy with a lot of new stuff. Mike Moffat is working on something called an Eitr, which may be some type of Digital to Ditital Converter to convert USB to SPDIF between PCs and DAC but that is my uneducated speculation. He is also working on a project that I think he may view as his crowning lifetime achievement. It is mysteriously referred to now as the Manhattan Project. It seems it is some type of Digital Signal Processor that will work with any DAC that Mike feels could change the entire way we experience recorded music moving to a much more natural and realistic experience. No word on when those projects will come to market.

Jason is busy developing a preamp and high power amp for speaker systems.

I sincerely believe that you would be very happy with any multibit Schiit DAC you bought that was consistent with your audio budget.


----------



## pctazhp

I need to make it clear Bimby is the only Schiit multibit DAC I have ever heard. But I read a lot. I'm pretty convinced that Gumby is the sweetspot in the Schiit line. Yiggy of course is the pinnacle and for anyone who can afford it, it is probably a no-brainer. But if there were a way to measure the delta of musical enjoyment hour-by-hour over the period of a year, I'm not convinced Yiggy would significantly outdistance the Gumby. That is partly because even with my own Bimby I really couldn't tell you what I'm missing that I think I could get with either Gumby or Yiggy. Right now I'm listening to Josh Groban on Tidal HD and it is is simply glorious. And both Mike and Jason have at times suggested that Gumby may be the DAC they both use at home.


----------



## UntilThen

Well Pct has covered everything. There's nothing to add except that the owners of Schiit have outstanding credentials. 

Don't worry about the name Mordy. The jokes around it are getting old but the products are outstanding value.

At the expense of skewing too much on Schiit, I have to reiterate that the Yggy Euforia Hd800 combo is the best I've heard, including those at the Meets.


----------



## UntilThen

Audioquest Golden Gate RCA and Cinnamon USB cables came today. Took me a long time to upgrade my cables. I don't believe in spending too much on cables. These seems to add even more clarity listening to Audiophile Voices album. They aren't too expensive. About $100 each. USB sounds very good to me. Don't think I need to mess around with coaxial, BNC, AES/EBU.... until I'm bored further down the track. 

As for power cable, this is what the Yggy manual says...

'Plug the end of the supplied IEC cord in here. You can also use fancy audiophile types but they won't really do anything - what about the thousands of feet of crap copper cables in your walls, huh?' 

So thank you Schiit. I won't be upgrading my power cord.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Multibit is the r2r ladder resistor dac. I don't know the science behind it but it sure sounds good and natural.... and it's spell as Schiit - not Shayt.
> 
> Over at the aussie forum classified, I've seen just a few Gumby and Modi multibit dacs come up for sale and they are bought almost instantly.
> 
> ps... 2 brands featuring 2r2 technology are gaining lots of favourable reviews. Holo Spring Audio and lately, the Denafrips. They are made in China and Taiwan. However I went with Schiit because as Pct says, Mike Moffat is the designer of it and the 5 years warranty.



I have been researching new dac's for sometime now....I don't understand that some people do not seem to like Schitt products for some pretty silly reasons, the name or they just assume that they are cheap....I think they have built a good name for themselves and i have rarely heard of there stuff failing, at least not any more than anybody elses.

There are many good choices one could make when getting a good dac, I certainly would not be afraid to buy any Schiit products.

The Yggy is on my short list as is the Holo Springs Level 3 ....many great choices at many different entry levels...


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I have been researching new dac's for sometime now....I don't understand that some people do not seem to like Schitt products for some pretty silly reasons, the name or they just assume that they are cheap....I think they have built a good name for themselves and i have rarely heard of there stuff failing, at least not any more than anybody elses.
> 
> There are many good choices one could make when getting a good dac, I certainly would not be afraid to buy any Schiit products.
> 
> The Yggy is on my short list as is the Holo Springs Level 3 ....many great choices at many different entry levels...



whirlwind, your short list is looking good.  If you ask me, I would say Yggy for sure because it's the only higher end DAC I've heard and boy oh boy, there's so much clarity now, it's frightening.  It's a very neutral sounding DAC according to my ears, which is great for system matching. You can get the tube amp / tubes and headphone to match. A system is only as good as what you feed it. If it's truncated at the beginning, nothing further downstream will restore it.

There's been some very solid reviews and impressions for the Holo Spring Level 3 dac. So your choice will not be easy. Perhaps you can follow my coin toss method.  Incidentally they are almost at the same price brackets. Yggy is a bit cheaper.

Yggy is sounding really good with my CD collections that has been ripped as flac files into my hard disk. I am glad my CD collections over the years have been useful again now.

Another thing. I'm really loving HD800 in this setup now.


----------



## UntilThen

Was listening to 'Guardians of the Galaxy' through JRiver 22. I have the CD and it's ripped in. This Pina Colada song came on and I have never heard it this good. Buy the Yggy !!!


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen I appreciate how your have shared your decision making process and your excitement with your new Yiggy. i especially appreciate the fact that I don't think you once engaged in the dull practice of innuendo involving Schiit's name. That is so old and unimaginative, I now cringe every time I see it and add a 50% discount to my evaluation of whatever the person is trying to say.

I'm sure both the Yiggy and Holo Spring Level 3 are wonderful DACs. They both have an army of enthusiastic supporters. Probably hard to go wrong with either. All things being equal, I would always default to Schiit because of Mike and Jason's long standing and well deserved reputations, and the fact that Schiit is probably the most transparent manufacturer in audio history.


----------



## connieflyer

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they were the ones that also made the emperor's new clothes so I would imagine they would be very transparent company


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they were the ones that also made the emperor's new clothes so I would imagine they would be very transparent company



I love using words like "transparent" because I think it makes me seem so intelligent. However, in this case I regret my choice of that word. The angle you place on transparency applied to the clothes people wear, coming from you, has ruined my entire morning.


----------



## Spork67

UntilThen said:


> ...At the expense of skewing too much on Schiit, I have to reiterate that the Yggy Euforia Hd800 combo is the best I've heard, including those at the Meets.



BIG call UT.
Even better than BH and 007 + Yggy (I believe you heard this combo).
I'm happy to hear you have found your audio nirvanah.
Are the poor T1's getting much time now, or do you prefer the HD-800 in every way?


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I have been very skeptical about about the improvements of "audiophile grade" cables and power cords, but I do feel that the inexpensive A/C cord that CF recommended  (around $10) added clarity and definition to the sound. But then my house does not have copper wiring, but aluminum wiring....

Based on what I read, it is also possible that some power cords are better insulated and can reduce hum, but luckily you do not have that problem.

I am also under the impression that some patch cord cables could act as tone controls, thus changing the sound.


----------



## pctazhp

+1 on this power cable that was recently awarded the CF Seal of Approval. Lot of good that did. It's no longer available: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069FLXLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In general, discussion and acquisition of cables - a bottomless snake pit. Sure to convert lifelong friends into bitter enemies and reduce to paupers hitherto fat cats.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,

Found another one that looks the same with 14 AWG conductor, but I don't now if it is identical (it is 10' instead of 6'):

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader...rd_wg=Mwhma&psc=1&refRID=NMKAN8F5PV6Z1DG5YK1T


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Found another one that looks the same with 14 AWG conductor, but I don't now if it is identical (it is 10' instead of 6'):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader...rd_wg=Mwhma&psc=1&refRID=NMKAN8F5PV6Z1DG5YK1T



Looks the same. Different length. Pretty blue plug


----------



## pctazhp

Sylvania 6SN7Ws arrived today. New euphoria with Euforia


----------



## UntilThen

Spork67 said:


> BIG call UT.
> Even better than BH and 007 + Yggy (I believe you heard this combo).
> I'm happy to hear you have found your audio nirvanah.
> Are the poor T1's getting much time now, or do you prefer the HD-800 in every way?



BH and 007 / 009 + Yggy that I heard is one of intricacy, finesse or elaborately detailed. The few Jazz songs that I heard on it showed me that this system is like very fine wine, to be sipped slowly and not gulp down as you do with beer in a bottoms up motion.  Interestingly at that time, I didn't even think too much about Yggy (or I didn't know too much about it yet ). My eyes were on Blue Hawaii and the Stax headphones.

For the genres of music that I listen to (which includes classic rock, blues, classical, jazz, electronic) I do prefer the Yggy + Euforia + HD800. 

As for T1 vs HD800, not going to evaluate that yet. Still getting in the hours on HD800. From my experience with my new HD650, I know that burn-in of a headphone (or speakers for that matter) is necessary. For what I am hearing on HD800, I'm liking the mids for vocals. It's more engaging than T1 but there are other aspects of T1 that I prefer. It will be a close call. I believe that if you are using an OTL amp, HD800 and T1 will sound very good on it. Even the humble HD650 with a silver cable. 

Why do you think I have all those 3 headphones? It's all carefully planned.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> and the fact that Schiit is probably the most transparent manufacturer in audio history.



For me, it's the Yggy that's transparent and very quiet. My setup is so quiet now with no music playing. If wasn't this quiet when NAD d1050 was in it. In the midst of this quietness, there's superb definition, focus and clarity. I think my Yggy is slowly waking up from it's slumber. It's 5 days 6 hours now.

One other aspect of Yggy is the smoothness and the bass. I didn't know a dac can make a difference to the bass but it is hitting harder now with controlled precision. It's quality bass with impact. Kick drums will kick you. Tom Toms will tom you. Listen to Hotel California long guitar intro and hear Don Henley play the bongos. I love how the bongos sound.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Sylvania 6SN7Ws arrived today. New euphoria with Euforia



Brilliant. I bet that system sounds amazing. Just the tube combo that I think will be perfect for your HD800S.


----------



## UntilThen (May 25, 2017)

This is my desktop layout now. Monitor to the right. Cough, cough, just pretend you didn't see the Bose speakers.  It's not even used now except to hear JFK speech on surround sound. 'Ask not what head-fi can do for you but what you can do for head-fi'.


----------



## whirlwind

pctazhp said:


> Sylvania 6SN7Ws arrived today. New euphoria with Euforia




Very nice tubes...in all sockets


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Brilliant. I bet that system sounds amazing. Just the tube combo that I think will be perfect for your HD800S.



You got that right


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> This is my desktop layout now. Monitor to the right. Cough, cough, just pretend you didn't see the Bose speakers.  It's not even used now except to hear JFK speech on surround sound. 'Ask not what head-fi can do for you but what you can do for head-fi'.



Wow!! Yiggy is a true BEHEMOTH !!!


----------



## pctazhp

whirlwind said:


> Very nice tubes...in all sockets



Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Wow!! Yiggy is a true BEHEMOTH !!!



Not forgetting you can run your hands over it and feel how smooth it is.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Not forgetting you can run your hands over it and feel how smooth it is.



Well young man. I'm afraid I'm too old for that kind of stuff.

I've given up trying to describe the magic of my Obscure HoloAudio DDC/Poor-Man's Schiit Multibit DAC/Euforia/Nouveau-Riche HD800S based system. Suffice it to say, listening to Alison Krauss sing "I Never Cared For You" and "Gentle on My Mind" is the experience of a lifetime.


----------



## connieflyer (May 25, 2017)

Wait till you hear from the tracking room the clarity is uncanny!
Gungnir shipped today, chose 2 day shipping thought they would have shipped yesterday so I could get it by Friday,  probably Monday now.  Listening with PSAudio Nuwave coax input sound is excellent, Schitt is going to have an uphill battle. Coax is, to me at least, much better than usb.  Have always chose coax when possible, seems more to the music. Listening to Carolyn Southby, piano, is very good.  Hoping to snag tickets to see Diana Krall in a couple of weeks. Scarce. Listening with El11's one has mesh plate and Tung Sol 5998's great combo.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Wait till you hear from the tracking room the clarity is uncanny!
> Gungnir shipped today, chose 2 day shipping thought they would have shipped yesterday so I could get it by Friday,  probably Monday now.  Listening with PSAudio Nuwave coax input sound is excellent, Schitt is going to have an uphill battle. Coax is, to me at least, much better than usb.  Have always chose coax when possible, seems more to the music. Listening to Carolyn Southby, piano, is very good.  Hoping to snag tickets to see Diana Krall in a couple of weeks. Scarce. Listening with El11's one has mesh plate and Tung Sol 5998's great combo.



Earth to CF. Monday is a holiday.


----------



## connieflyer

They are all the same to me. Oh well wasted extra shipping money.  Switched over to Diana Krall, an amazing voice, well have to put up the headphones for a bit, Connor just brought me his ball, play time for awhile.


----------



## connieflyer

One last song, check out this voice from the past PCT..


----------



## UntilThen

In a previous life, Gumby was Beethoven . Piano is his forte. Prepare to be blown away.


----------



## connieflyer

I sincerely hope you are correct. Because from what I'm hearing from PS audio and the latest selection of tubes this would be a huge game changer the PS audio is sounding very very good.


----------



## UntilThen

HD800 is sounding great with Yggy and Euforia. It's a week of burn in now and and this combo is starting to hit all the right notes. I had to swap in some warmer tubes to balance it out. Currently running RCA 6sn7gt vt231 smoke glass and Bendix 6080wb. Didn't know that the RCAs would come in useful. HD800 just sound lovely with a tube amp like Euforia. It's blossom out and full of texture while at the same time having absolute clarity.

However I'm still lusting for Ragnorak. What I heard at the shop of the combo consisting of Yggy + Ragnorak + HD800 is a high end experience. Fast transient, power and delivery, articulate and details without the glare and fatigue. Reading Jude's 2014 review of the Ragnorak, confirm I'm not alone with this impression.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil.667711/page-113#post-10525684


----------



## pctazhp

Hey @UntilThen  Back when I was just trying to gain a little respect for Schiit multibit DACs on these FA threads, I never intended you to go hook, line and sinker!!! At this rate, Jason is going to have to devote an entire chapter of his book just to you


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Did you tell your accountant that you bought all those stuff? That would put him in a spell.
> 
> Looks like the opposition (@hypnos1 ) will be here soon. There's report that the Hugo 2 has shipped.



Hi UT...looks like I have a lot of catching up to do lol! And given my last exasperating experience with trying multi-quote replies, shall have to keep them singles...so here goes : no sweat re. the "opposition" - as @Oskari says...good *balance*...UK vs US LOL!!! (Yet still the best of friends...DT permitting, that is!!!  ).

Trouble is there's been dreadful delay with release of the Hugo 2, and mine being the second batch, won't now be here for yet another month alas (unless a load of frustrated, impatient people pull out..._*fingers crossed - for ME!!!*_). 

HOWEVER, my good friend, I am already in hot competition with your newfound glorious sound...and that's before my new DAC even arrives!! And this is all (with a little help from Euforia, of course!!!) down to what my new Airlink Transformers Balanced Mains with Advanced Filter System is doing to the cr*p that resides not only in the 'copper wires' mentioned to you, but from the myriad items of electrical equipment connected to your mains supply...*AND* of all those around you who share that common supply!!!

And this was confirmed to me BIG time the other day, when I removed my ASF3000 unit and plugged everything into a standard, non-conditioned multi-socket extension lead....Result?...within less than twenty seconds I simply had to remove my headphones and slink off to bed in disgust. And that was with the wonderful Naim server still in place lol!! Compared to the magic I've come to love from Euforia and her latest companions, I could not believe Euforia was still in the equation, it was that bad to my ears...

Gone was the *exceptional* clarity/separation/pinpoint imaging & placement/impeccable timing & speed/treble finesse/delicious decay & reverb/immaculate control of dynamics, from soft through crescendo to LOUD/3D holographic soundstage/etc. etc....in other words..._*everything*_ that was transporting me to the Heavens and back! It was as if Euforia had gone on hunger strike, as a token gesture against the insult I had bestowed upon her.

Now obviously, this is all _relative_ - because the setup was otherwise first-rate. And as I've always used some form of mains conditioning & filtering, with gradual upgrades over time, I simply hadn't _fully_ realised just how much it was contributing to the end result...*but now I do!*...courtesy of from ridiculous to sublime lol!...ie. :

From _this_...



 

To _THIS_ :



 

I realise this is in fact the TOTL model - the ASF3000, with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System, at over double the price of the one with 'plain' conditioning, but the member who introduced me to these products at our local meet recently was also very impressed indeed with this cheaper model, and rated it a good bit above even the PowerInspired Mains Regenerator,  that I also found surpassed (by a BIG margin) by my own unit.

And so once again, I can't recommend too highly that folks look more closely at this part of the system...ie its life *BLOOD* (as per that Japanese hi-fi OCD guy!) - and which for most folks is infected far more than would ever be suspected. Fancy, expensive cables (and subsequent signal transfer) can indeed only do so much when fed with inferior electrons...they need to be *cleansed/disinfected* FIRST lol!! 

This experience has been the biggest highlight comparison of all my time with tube amps these past few years...bar none!!...(and which actually, now has me _extremely_ dubious of just how much more *any* other DAC can bring to my particular equation...the leap with this ASF3000 back in place is _that_ huge LOL! But in the interests of 'Balanced' (sorry!!) opposition, I have not in fact cancelled my order for the H2!!!  CHEERS!


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1 The Airlink 120V-in/120V-out Airlink standard balanced conditioner USCB1510 is 260 British Pounds ($333) Might be worth a try here in the colonies. Fortunately the TOTL Airlink isn't available in 120 Volt input.


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> _Opposition_ is very important for the balance.
> 
> (It's also a pretty strong word, and I wouldn't want to consider CJ my opposition.)



But O, my good friend, I was counting on you being my corner coach, dispensing words of wisdom (not to mention water/dubious substances!) as UT's blows rained down upon me lol!...,
However, I'm quite sure it will be KO in the first round...*to the Hugo 2!!!*...so no opposition anyway! ...not really, my equally good friend @UntilThen...simply good-hearted - and what should prove VERY interesting - competition. May the best man win....*me!!!*...But how can we possibly know for sure?...I've no money left for a Yggy, and I doubt your better half will countenance an H2 - or you yourself, for that matter! 

Aha...the perfect answer...*YOU*, O, should get both so as to be impartial judge...now isn't that a good idea? (Still my friend lol?!!  ).


----------



## pctazhp

THIS IS GETTING SOOOOOOOOOO EXCITING!!!!


----------



## UntilThen (May 26, 2017)

Your honor, the opposition states that.... but may I suggest a better alternative .....  oops I thought we were in Parliament  

Ok so now I have to consider a dedicated power conditioner. Here in Australia, we have our own smart branded power. It's call Thor. Here is a picture and link to the specs.

https://www.audiotrends.com.au/Thor_PS10_Smart_Power_Station.html?action=viewProduct&itemId=1110




As soon as the finance ministry approves it, I shall dispatch my office to make the purchase.

But as you know, running a government, means you have to prioritise. There are a bunch of stuff screaming, 'Buy me now'.

For example, this Auralic Aries was at the shop, sitting on top of Ragnorok and Yggy, looking very funky.... and it has a AES/EBU output, which is purrfect for Yggy. It's a music streamer, that works off WiFi or Ethernet, to tap into your NAS (Network Attached Storage) i.e your terabytes of music that you've accumulated from birth and also tap into Tidal's endless supply of music. So this is very appealing and is a consideration .... in the year 2020.



Finally this surface as a sale in the local classified but I'm undecided if I need it.. or if it's going to give me an improvement.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/123570-fs-m2tech-hiface-two-usb-to-spdif-interface/





..... seriously I'm awaiting the arrival of your Hugo 2. The fan base is equally large, even here in Australia.

Ps.... I wouldn't even dream of buying another DAC after Yggy, let alone Hugo 2. I'm on sandwiches for the next 6 months. No more wagyu beef or sashimi.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1 The Airlink 120V-in/120V-out Airlink standard balanced conditioner USCB1510 is 260 British Pounds ($333) Might be worth a try here in the colonies. Fortunately the TOTL Airlink isn't available in 120 Volt input.



Hi pct...yes, they do indeed make the standard unit, with conditioning, for the US (and elsewhere) - it has 2 sockets, as opposed to my 5, but a good multi *after* it should be fine...with GOOD cables, of course!!
It weighs 11kg, compared to my 24(!!!), but shipping is still about £130 to the USA unfortunately, I believe...and only "to the nearest port", from their info blurb. So this complicates things somewhat, I should imagine? However, if this last hurdle can be got over, I'm sure it is still much better value than anything else comparable nearer to home!

ps. I appreciate your use of the word "fortunately" in this context lol!!...(but by all accounts, the Advanced Filtering does indeed scale the heights - luckily(?!) for me!!...). 

pps. Hmmm, mon ami....perhaps a better prospect for the Ukraine?


----------



## pctazhp

OPPPS. So, so sorry. I thought this was an audio thread. I didn't realize I had just stumbled into a closed meeting of the G7 with trillions and trillions of dollars to spend on any wild boondoggle.


----------



## pctazhp

Yeah. Shipping seems an impediment. Where is David Niven and his balloon when I need him??


----------



## UntilThen

An urgent email just pop up in my in-box. This GEC 6080 has just been discounted from $150 to $90 each. Where is my pop-up blocker??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6080-BR...711084?hash=item2a7ff9e96c:g:fE8AAOSwRUhY9qKY


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> THIS IS GETTING SOOOOOOOOOO EXCITING!!!!



Hmmm, pct....more like? :



 

No...NEVER!!!......


----------



## pctazhp (May 26, 2017)

Well, all I can say is I've been listening to my GEC6080s for the past few days and think they are pretty wonderful. First they look really cool. They feel more substantial that the GEC 6AS7Gs, and I think sound better. The 6AS7s are just a little too relaxed. The 6080s have more punch, yet also tremendous finesse. The G7 approves..

Edit:  For whatever it's worth, I'd take the GECs over the Bendix any day of the year (leap year included).


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Your honor, the opposition states that.... but may I suggest a better alternative .....  oops I thought we were in Parliament
> 
> Ok so now I have to consider a dedicated power conditioner. Here in Australia, we have our own smart branded power. It's call Thor. Here is a picture and link to the specs.
> 
> ...



Ah UT...decisions, decisions...some nice-looking kit there lol! (Reckon you'll be on crumbs for a year lol!!!). And Christmas is a way off yet - you have my sympathies!

ps. Difficult one re. the M2Tech...it does indeed do a very good job on the USB signal...careful consideration/comparisons needed here...

Ah well, time for zzzzzzzzzzz....(perchance to dream....of...._*you know what!!!*_).CHEERS for now....


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Edit: For whatever it's worth, I'd take the GECs over the Bendix any day of the year (leap year included).



In diplomacy, you need to trust and verify. So looks like I have to buy those GEC 6080s and find out for myself.


----------



## UntilThen (May 26, 2017)

Done and dusted. Make an offer of $160 for a pair of GEC 6080 and was accepted. That's almost the price you paid, Pct.

Now I'll find out for myself if it is really better than Bendix 6080wb as you claimed. However difference of friendly opinions are accepted here. 

Trust me, this will be my last tube purchase.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I sincerely hope you are correct. Because from what I'm hearing from PS audio and the latest selection of tubes this would be a huge game changer the PS audio is sounding very very good.



If I'm wrong, blame it on @pctazhp .


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Trust me, this will be my last tube purchase.


Trust you I do not.


----------



## UntilThen

Believe me, another box of tubes that comes through the door and I'll be salami.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Aha...the perfect answer...*YOU*, O, should get both so as to be impartial judge...now isn't that a good idea? (Still my friend lol?!!  ).


I think you both know the _*obvious*_ answer.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> If I'm wrong, blame it on @pctazhp .



I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. I'm running out of different versions of this song. I can be blamed for nothing. If anything goes wrong


----------



## UntilThen

Blame it on the night.


----------



## UntilThen

Youtube post is kind of funny.

'Only hate the wifi when it's slow'  Used to love this song. He used to busk around Australia and the world.


----------



## pctazhp

My thought for the evening. If someone owns Euforia, has either Sylvania 6SN7W or 6SN7WTG for driver and GEC6080 for power, and doesn't like it, that person belongs on another planet (for you CF that means some place other than Earth).


----------



## UntilThen (May 26, 2017)

I was trying to read up on r2r, multibit, delta-sigma, etc etc when you interrupted my concentration. Anywho, I'm glad I'm about to own the gec 6080 because my work on this earth is not done yet.

Alright, who cares if it's r2r, multibit or delta-sigma. For me I'm only concerned about whether it sounds 'good, bad or ugly'.... and right now Yggdrasil is sounding clear, x-ray penetrating, expansive, ethereal, velvety, organic and most importantly, it's earthly. No alien sound here.


----------



## UntilThen

This is so true. You need long term listening of gear, even tubes to properly tell them apart. Keep an open mind... 

Mike does have a distinguished career. So does Jason.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...obable-start-up.701900/page-516#post-11921090


----------



## connieflyer

Boy missed out on all this banter and wealth spreading today.  Spent the afternoon removing all the cables and redoing everything nice and neat so when the gungnir finally arrives, it will be just plug and play.


----------



## UntilThen

Ummm CF, it's like I'm in your living room now. Thanks for the invite. We'll have a mini meet there soon. I see you have your system within reach of your favourite armchair. Next time get Connor to sit in the armchair with the headphone on. 

That must be a picture of your wife. She's is beautiful.


----------



## Oskari

Oskari said:


> Today I received one (1) replacement EF86 adapter for the two (2) that I had problems with.





mordy said:


> I would not settle for one replacement if I had problems with two of them - contact the seller again.





Oskari said:


> Yes, I will.



Well, I didn't. There was no point because the replacement wasn't any better.

I may have two usable adapters, though. It took a significant amount of _persuasion_ and some _lubrication_, but I finally managed to insert sacrificial tubes into the sockets. It definitely shouldn't be this difficult.

I haven't tried the adapters in action yet. That'll be for another day.


----------



## pctazhp

A brief glimpse inside the Man Cave where so many HeadFi posts for the ages originated rivals what it must have been like to peek inside the study where Shakespeare authored his plays that have stood the test of time.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Well, I didn't. There was no point because the replacement wasn't any better.
> 
> I may have two usable adapters, though. It took a significant amount of _persuasion_ and some _lubrication_, but I finally managed to insert sacrificial tubes into the sockets. It definitely shouldn't be this difficult.
> 
> I haven't tried the adapters in action yet. That'll be for another day.



Huh, sell all your adapters back to China and just go nude. The day I decided to stick with just 6sn7 and 6as7 / 6080 is the best day of my life. I pop in ECC31 with adapters yesterday and with the setup I've now, I can hear noise but with these tubes in the picture below, it's totally quiet. See how neat and classy Euforia look with no adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> A brief glimpse inside the Man Cave where so many HeadFi posts for the ages originated rivals what it must have been like to peek inside the study where Shakespeare authored his plays that have stood the test of time.



I thought it's D H Lawrence's home, author of Lady's Chatterley Lover.


----------



## connieflyer (May 28, 2017)

That is a picture of Sue. She was a beautiful person, inside and out. Connor does not get in my chair, I don't lay on his bed, good partners.I like not having to mess with adapters also. The amp is really coming into its own, must be about burned in by now.now.Everything is aging quite nicely, go ahead pct, I gave you a free shot at me.


----------



## connieflyer

I hate using this pad to type, hard to edit, trying to get fat fingers on tiny letters


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Huh, sell all your adapters back to China and just go nude.


I have them. I bloody well am going to try them.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> I have them. I bloody well am going to try them.



 ok


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,

For whatever it is worth, I would caution against using the EF86 tubes with 2.5A power tubes, because I think that it makes the auto bias circuit run too hot. No such problems with EL12N and EL12 1.2A power tubes. 
Since I got my Euforia I do not use the Elise any more. And since I got the Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 1 I almost gave up listening through speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

A good speaker system is still the way to go but it will cost you, including acoustic treatment for your listening room. 

A good headphone with capable source and amp, on the other hand will give you instant gratification. 

HD800 and T1 were both introduced in 2009 and have remained as true classics to this day. Compared to new TOTL headphones today, they are value for money but they are not everyone's cup of tea. If you're a coffee drinker, it's best to look elsewhere.

With OTL amps such as Elise and Euforia, these headphones are as compatible as bears in the woods.

As for EF86, EL Dorado tubes, well I'm a reformist now. Use what the manufacturer tells you.


----------



## mordy (May 28, 2017)

Hi UT,

Yes, I like coffee. Two cups in the morning and I am good to go. Did you get the HD800 or HD800s?

There is a guy in Russia with no feedback that is selling a HD800 - the price will probably end up around $500. But I am leery of a guy in Russia without feedback.....

It occurs to me that it is cheaper to get a state of the art headphone than a state of the art speaker system.

PS. I am planning a shootout between my GEC/6SN7 combo and EL11/EF86//EL12N/EL6. There is no doubt in my mind now that my speaker system may need different tubes than my T1s to sound their best. ATM concentrating on the headphones.


----------



## UntilThen (May 28, 2017)

I got the original HD800 which is my preference. May do the SDR mod later if it's reversible. I heard both versions at the Sydney meet in 2016. I listen with HD800 first on a setup with Metrum Hex and Woo Wa2. Sounds pretty good to me. Then I swap to HD800S. Immediately I get more bloom, a fatter bass and a few decibels off the treble. I scrunch up my face in agony. 

However I listen to HD800S on an Audio Gd 5 dac and separate Audio Gd balance amp later. This dac and amp combo is definitely leaner and more neutral in tone. Now the HD800S starts to sound lovely.

So both versions can sound good with the right dac and amp. However HD800S will not be as revealing as HD800 but not everyone wants to hear every high note that @pctazhp sings. Sometimes truncation will save your hearing.

Cheaper to get a TOTL headphone system than a TOTL speaker system? Heh that's a given. However they are both different experience. You cannot really compare. It's like saying if a Tai Chi martial artist and a championship boxer fights, who wins. I'd say the one who carries a capsicum spray or the stun gun.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to mow the lawn.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy now has 211 hours and HD800 has probably about 80 hours. Euforia .... I have lost count 

I sense that the tone has mature. It could still evolve and I'll be happy if it does. I was right about Yggy being neutral and very revealing. There's no glare though. It's very listenable. Clarity is superb. In combination with Euforia and HD800, the tone is addictive. I felt though that I have to dial in more warm and weight, without compromising the superb clarity. So I've chosen Psvane 6sn7 UK version and Bendix 6080wb. This tube combination gave me the warm, weight and texture that I was hoping for. It's not lean nor bloom but the projected sound has good timing, pace and control. 

It's a eureka moment.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow suddenly my system is alive !!! It's morphing before my ears and eyes. I thought it's only the HD800. Swapping to T1 and HD650 gave the same euphoria. Now which of the components is responsible for this. *"Yggy, Eudy, Miny, Moe"* I think it's all of them. 

It's now the Royal Albert Hall.


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks to recommendation and generosity of @connieflyier, I just got this yesterday: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER  It probably is the cheapest way of avoiding USB completely and creating a clean SPDIF coax source to a DAC - in particular in my case my multibit Bimby. It is a significant improvement in my system. It has an SPDIF pass-though function that avoids the card's own DAC/Amp. I appears to be very well shielded. It has a solid audiophile feel to it, and unlike the much more expensive Lynx card, uses power directly from the computer power supply, avoiding noise that may be present on the motherboard.

Most people who use the ASUS card seem to use it for it's DAC/Amp function, and most people who try to find ways of feeding SPDIF to Schiit DACs seem to not consider the ASUS card, preferring usually much more expensive Digital to Digital Converters (which convert USB to SPDIF). But even though DDCs still start with USB. The ASUS card completely avoids it. And I can attest that it is a significant improvement to this https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-xeme2ve-usb-to-spdif-digital-interface/ - which in turn was a significant improvement to just straight USB, even with a fancy USB cable from my PC to Bimby.

I'm pretty sure no one else on HeadF will recommend the ASUS card for use with a Schiit DAC, but that doesn't necessarily my advice is bad. I seriously doubt there is an alternative way of feeding good clean (low jitter) SPDIF data to Schiit DAC at anywhere close to the cost of the card.

*WARNING:  Those who ignore my advice run significant risk of remaining hopelessly mired in ignorance and inferior musical enjoyment.*


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> So both versions can sound good with the right dac and amp. However HD800S will not be as revealing as HD800 but not everyone wants to hear every high note that @pctazhp sings. Sometimes truncation will save your hearing.



see here's the thing. HD800S provides the most natural, real, organic listening experience ever known to man. If you want to hear me in my full glory (an experience not to be missed) you either have to hang out in my bathroom next to my shower or own HD800S.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct, I'm not prepared to upgrade my Royal Albert Hall yet even if the Queen gives me permission. Any improvements will surely lift it to cloud 9 and that is a phenomenon I'm not ready for. 

See how natural that red tip looks? Until someone donates a Auralic Aries full version to me, this will stay.


----------



## pctazhp

As I recall the objection Mike and others have to USB is that it was never designed for music. It reminds me of Cassette tapes, which were originally designed for transcription. Companies like Nakamichi tried to squeeze every possible bit of music from Cassette tapes, but they didn't come close to reel to reel. The Yiggi has Schiit's Gen 3 implantation of USB, so perhaps they are doing the same thing for USB that Nakamichi tried for Cassette tape.. I don't know how successful they have been at doing that. I chose to consider the modern version of reel-to-reel decks (direct feed of SPDIF) as a perfect compliment for my Schiit R2R DAC.


----------



## mordy

The volume knob on my Euforia has an almost invisible thin groove to indicate the volume level. Any suggestions how to easily color it in so that I can see it better? I tried a very thin sliver of a white self stick label but it does not look that great.





Gave up on the shoot out between different tubes as mentioned in a previous post - everything sounds great. ATM running TS 6SN7GTB reissues with EL12N - sounds very good. 

Every combination is slightly different, a little more forward or recessed, a little more emphasis on this or that, but all excellent.

I can see the current trend on this forum for other enhancements to the sound than the amp itself and tubes. As always, my philosophy is to try to get the most bang for the buck - I am following all the developments to find what shakes out......


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> As I recall the objection Mike and others have to USB is that it was never designed for music. It reminds me of Cassette tapes, which were originally designed for transcription. Companies like Nakamichi tried to squeeze every possible bit of music from Cassette tapes, but they didn't come close to reel to reel. The Yiggi has Schiit's Gen 3 implantation of USB, so perhaps they are doing the same thing for USB that Nakamichi tried for Cassette tape.. I don't know how successful they have been at doing that. I chose to consider the modern version of reel-to-reel decks (direct feed of SPDIF) as a perfect compliment for my Schiit R2R DAC.




Help !!! I woke up to find my Yggy has morph into a Nakamichi Dragon-DAC. !!!


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The volume knob on my Euforia has an almost invisible thin groove to indicate the volume level. Any suggestions how to easily color it in so that I can see it better? I tried a very thin sliver of a white self stick label but it does not look that great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah ha Mordy. 'Every tube sounds good' has never been more true than the arrival of my Yggy and HD800. I'm sure it's due to audiophile nervosa. However the good ole sages will tell you that what goes in will come out or it will never come out if it didn't go in. Or if it went in but if the outlet is not good enough, it will be blocked. I.e take care of the system and the system will take care of you.

ps... don't worry about colouring the groove on the volume knob. Learn to feel it.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Help !!! I woke up to find my Yggy has morph into a Nakamichi Dragon-DAC. !!!



But where do you insert these?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> But where do you insert these?



You need to rip it in as flacs


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> I can see the current trend on this forum for other enhancements to the sound than the amp itself and tubes. As always, my philosophy is to try to get the most bang for the buck - I am following all the developments to find what shakes out......



Why don't you buy a Mimby and get a taste of multibits. If you don't like it within 15 days, return it at a cost of restocking fee. If you like it, return it anyway and buy a Yggy.


----------



## Oskari (May 28, 2017)

mordy said:


> The volume knob on my Euforia has an almost invisible thin groove to indicate the volume level. Any suggestions how to easily color it in so that I can see it better?


Paint marker, extra fine point?


----------



## pctazhp

Where do I lodge a protest? I want the last UntilThen avatar back !!!


----------



## mordy

Yeah UT, I got used to feeling it, but using my T1s I keep the volume on 10-11, and using the Euforia as a pre-amp I keep the volume at max. So I want to avoid surprises (AKA rude awakening) when switching and thus I need visual verification instead of tactile verification. (Is that legal language, pct?)


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> Where do I lodge a protest? I want the last UntilThen avatar back !!!


Me too!


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,

Was thinking of a fine point correction pen, but the tip may be too wide.


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Yeah UT, I got used to feeling it, but using my T1s I keep the volume on 10-11, and using the Euforia as a pre-amp I keep the volume at max. So I want to avoid surprises (AKA rude awakening) when switching and thus I need visual verification instead of tactile verification. (Is that legal language, pct?)



I don't know about the legal stuff. I cry whenever I think of anything between Euforia and the transducer. It just seems so "unnatural" to me.

Speaking of unnatural, you might want to be careful using such words as "tactile" with @UntilThen. He loves to talk about stroking his Euforia, which has raised my eyebrows. If this keeps up, I may have to go to confession. Oh wait, I'm not Catholic!!! Well, I'm just going to go write in my diary for a while. I keep it on a private server in my bathroom so no one can ever read it.

Anything else you'd like my help with???


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> I don't know about the legal stuff. I cry whenever I think of anything between Euforia and the transducer. It just seems so "unnatural" to me.
> 
> Speaking of unnatural, you might want to be careful using such words as "tactile" with @UntilThen. He loves to talk about stroking his Euforia, which has raised my eyebrows. If this keeps up, I may have to go to confession. Oh wait, I'm not Catholic!!! Well, I'm just going to go write in my diary for a while. I keep it on a private server in my bathroom so no one can ever read it.
> 
> Anything else you'd like my help with???




I'm sorry, last time I was tactile with the Euforia I burned my fingers on the power tubes lol.....Those Bendixes read 149C on my infrared thermometer.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Where do I lodge a protest? I want the last UntilThen avatar back !!!



What's da matter? Don't you like my new HD800 avatar? It's pure bliss and euphoria.

I wanted a Yggy avatar but all I could find were trees.


----------



## UntilThen

I'm using optical connection from PC to Yggy. I can't hear any difference between optical and USB. They both sound awesome.


pctazhp said:


> Thanks to recommendation and generosity of @connieflyier, I just got this yesterday: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER  It probably is the cheapest way of avoiding USB completely and creating a clean SPDIF coax source to a DAC - in particular in my case my multibit Bimby. It is a significant improvement in my system. It has an SPDIF pass-though function that avoids the card's own DAC/Amp. I appears to be very well shielded. It has a solid audiophile feel to it, and unlike the much more expensive Lynx card, uses power directly from the computer power supply, avoiding noise that may be present on the motherboard.
> 
> Most people who use the ASUS card seem to use it for it's DAC/Amp function, and most people who try to find ways of feeding SPDIF to Schiit DACs seem to not consider the ASUS card, preferring usually much more expensive Digital to Digital Converters (which convert USB to SPDIF). But even though DDCs still start with USB. The ASUS card completely avoids it. And I can attest that it is a significant improvement to this https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-xeme2ve-usb-to-spdif-digital-interface/ - which in turn was a significant improvement to just straight USB, even with a fancy USB cable from my PC to Bimby.
> 
> ...



I tried optical from PC to Yggy and I could not detect any difference with USB. They both sounded awesome. I'll just enjoy my music for now and not over think this.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I tried optical from PC to Yggy and I could not detect any difference with USB. They both sounded awesome. I'll just enjoy my music for now and not over think this.



For those who believe some benefit can be derived from thinking, I want to clarify that my PC doesn't have optical output and I have never tried it with Bimby. However, back in my audiophile days I know many considered it an inferior connection (similar to how some people now consider USB inferior). I have seen comments on HeadFi critical of the optical output from MACs. Not sure about PCs.

I can say for sure that using the SPDIF output from my ASUS card has brought a noticeable improvement, but I am using the lowly Bimby which doesn't hold a candle in the wind to Yiggy.

I'm considering this as my next avatar:


----------



## mordy

Maybe this?


----------



## UntilThen (May 29, 2017)

You'll be surprised how good the 'lowly' USB gen 3 in Yggy sounds.... until such time when you are ready to spring for the $795 Lynx E22 to pair with your $2299 Yggy.... and by the time you do that, you will find that the best option would be to get a good CD transport..... and by the time you do that, you realise why all the fuss, should have just gotten a top end turntable and sell the DAC. And by the time you have gotten the top end turntable, you realise what the ..... did I do that... let's just go back to iPhone and earbud for convenience.

To which I shall quote Hamlet, Why, then, 'tis none to you, for there is nothing either good or bad, but *thinking makes it so*.

Now I shall quote myself. Yggy is not just a world tree but a DAC you need to try out for yourself. It's that good.... with just 16/44.1 flacs.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Was thinking of a fine point correction pen, but the tip may be too wide.


Apply paint, wipe the excess off, hope some paint stays in the groove?


----------



## pctazhp

Lowly Thinker says: There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

As for me, I choose to follow my bliss, which for me is SPDIF.



I give the last word to whomever feels they need it.


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you, I will take it!


----------



## BobG55

pctazhp said:


> But where do you insert these?


 One of the best funny posts I've seen in a long time.


----------



## UntilThen

BobG55 said:


> One of the best funny posts I've seen in a long time.



Don't encourage him.


----------



## UntilThen

My power cord finally arrived after 3 months. I've to contact the seller to reimburse him cos it's the right thing to do.

Did it make my system sound better. You bet ! I can see electrons flowing freely now.... NOT.

My setup is already sounding like Apollo 11. One small step for me but one giant leap for euphony. Any improvements made by the cord is attributable to the fancy pants cable. Look how chunky the connector is.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggy is now 10 days 19 hours 22 minutes and 45 seconds old. It's a very rich, organic and sparkly tone now. It's relax and electrifying at the same time. Finally HD800 has met the right DAC and tube amp. I would never have imagine that HD800 can be so euphonic. I thought HD800 would be lean, analytical, clinical and ear piercing. Instead I get texture laden, bass throbbing and 3D inducing sonics. The very definition of a TOTL headphone. So much so, my memory of Focal Utopia has faded.

The next thing to do is to get a replacement cable for HD800 and join the soup kitchen.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Yggy is now 10 days 19 hours 22 minutes and 45 seconds old. It's a very rich, organic and sparkly tone now. It's relax and electrifying at the same time. Finally HD800 has met the right DAC and tube amp. I would never have imagine that HD800 can be so euphonic. I thought HD800 would be lean, analytical, clinical and ear piercing. Instead I get texture laden, bass throbbing and 3D inducing sonics. The very definition of a TOTL headphone. So much so, my memory of Focal Utopia has faded.
> 
> The next thing to do is to get a replacement cable for HD800 and join the soup kitchen.



Ha ha....who doesn't like soup!


----------



## connieflyer

Whirlwind has a custom cable maybe he can advise you on whether to get one or not. Stock cable runs about $300 US and is pretty good.  Cost for new one has to be considered. I checked into the one he uses looks good, but I don't know if expense would cover improvement.


----------



## connieflyer

Anyone want a dog? Connor is driving me nuts this morning.  I got the delivery email for the gumby saying sometime before 8p.m. so have to stick around today. Connor can hear a UPS or Fedx truck a block away and will bark once or twice.  Now somehow he knows one is coming and about every half hour or so, he will bark once and of course with the headphones on I have to take them off and listen for a truck.  I swear he is smiling way too much today.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Anyone want a dog? Connor is driving me nuts this morning.  I got the delivery email for the gumby saying sometime before 8p.m. so have to stick around today. Connor can hear a UPS or Fedx truck a block away and will bark once or twice.  Now somehow he knows one is coming and about every half hour or so, he will bark once and of course with the headphones on I have to take them off and listen for a truck.  I swear he is smiling way too much today.



Just burn some incense and take 1 or 2 runs through this and you'll be fine


----------



## connieflyer

My second favorite song right behind  Sain-Seans the Swan from the Carnival of the Animals.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Lowly Thinker says: There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
> 
> As for me, I choose to follow my bliss, which for me is SPDIF.
> 
> ...



Am sure this won't be the last word pct, but for what it's worth, my own uber bliss comes via BNC *coax *connection from the Naim Uniti Core server (etc.) to my tube DAC (using pure silver wire, of course!!). I personally have always found coax to perform better than either optical or USB  And thankfully - wouldn't have even considered it otherwise! - the Hugo 2 also has coax in (the boss of Chord, as with he of Schiit, is not too enamoured of USB either lol! But these days, there do appear to be ways of greatly improving upon USB's lowly performance of yore, so all is not lost!! ...).


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> My power cord finally arrived after 3 months. I've to contact the seller to reimburse him cos it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Did it make my system sound better. You bet ! I can see electrons flowing freely now.... NOT.
> 
> My setup is already sounding like Apollo 11. One small step for me but one giant leap for euphony. Any improvements made by the cord is attributable to the fancy pants cable. Look how chunky the connector is.



Nice cable and connector, UT...all it needs now is purified electricity to work with LOL!!!  ...(I know, I know....no more spending...*but*...!!!).


----------



## connieflyer

And by the way U T if you have any spare cash left I have a piece of property that most of the time it's above water that I'd love to sell to you!!!


----------



## UntilThen (May 30, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Nice cable and connector, UT...all it needs now is purified electricity to work with LOL!!!  ...(I know, I know....no more spending...*but*...!!!).



Thanks H1. It sure does look and feel nice. Heavy too. For $22 it's not too shabby. I hope it's compliant. 

I agree that coax is possibly better than USB and optical. Too many Yggy's opinions on this. Likewise it's also the general consensus, that BNC and AES/EBU are better, with the latter being best for Yggy. However as you said, there are many ways to achieve this with varying cost. There's USB to coax converter like the HiFace 2 or Pct's route of using the ASUS card to get a direct coax feed or the best option using Lynx E22 that can have AES input to Yggy, or use the Auralic Aries streamer and feed Yggy with AES, or Uptone Audio > Singxer SU-1 > and you have your choice of any inputs to Yggy.

I'm not jumping in too quickly (I have to buy CF's land in Michigan now) .... besides Schiit might have something up their sleeves to solve this at a more reasonable price.


----------



## pctazhp (May 30, 2017)

Professor Pctazhp says USB and optical are inferior. Schiit's Gen 3 USB Yiggy input may place it ahead of optical. Of the three remaining choices the quality probably increases this way: SPDIF<BNC<AES/EBU. However, DDCs like SU-1 (which has an AES/EBU output) still start with USB, and may need something like Regen between PC and SU-1. In addition, apparent many people use an external power supply for SU-1, so that whole thing is pretty pricey. The professor says that when @UntilThen gets ready to address this issue, he should go with the Lynx PCI-e card because its AES/EBU output completely by-passes USB (similar to the way my ASUS card's SPDIF output by-passes USB). The professor understands UT's go-slow approach, but among his many specialized areas of audio study, the professor is well read in audio ethics and wants to make sure UT understands it is considered unethical for a Yiggy owner to use any input other than AES/EBU.

PS. UT may want to check his computer to see if it has an old fashioned PCI card slot. Apparently the older Lynx PCI card's AES/EBU output performs equal to the newer cards, and if you can find one it's a lot cheaper. But today's computers may not have a PCI slot. In either case, UT should remember the Lynx card does require a dedicated cable, but does not require a separate Molex cable from the computer's power supply, like the ASUS card.

I think I have finally figured out the reason I probably like the ASUS card. I have an ASUS monitor and every time I reboot I see a big *ASUS* on my screen. Plus I think I used to own an ASUS notebook.


----------



## Spork67

UntilThen said:


> Yggy is now 10 days 19 hours 22 minutes and 45 seconds old. It's a very rich, organic and sparkly tone now. It's relax and electrifying at the same time. Finally HD800 has met the right DAC and tube amp. I would never have imagine that HD800 can be so euphonic. I thought HD800 would be lean, analytical, clinical and ear piercing. Instead I get texture laden, bass throbbing and 3D inducing sonics. The very definition of a TOTL headphone. So much so, my memory of Focal Utopia has faded.
> 
> The next thing to do is to get a replacement cable for HD800 and join the soup kitchen.


----------



## connieflyer

All very good reasons PCT, I applaud your reasoning, and just to show you I appreciate your judgement, I offer up an oldie for you.


----------



## UntilThen

I have one other option. Hire a singer to sing for me every night.


----------



## pctazhp

Summertime has long been one of my favorite songs and there are so many wonderful recordings of it. The Kenny G version is right at the top.  Even though I've been involved in audio for now almost 50 years, one of the thing I'm realizing or rediscovering, is that with a crystal clear Euforia based system how much variation there is in recordings. I don't know anything about the bit-rate of YouTube or its resolution, but this recording from YouTube is stunning. Far more enjoyable that a lot of what I can find on Tidal HD, although with good recordings Tidal will certainly out-do YouTube. But the quality of the recording is so important.

UT's comment about hiring a singer every night has given me an idea. I'm going to look into making recordings on my own PC so I can build a library of my own melodious voice, and then I can listen to myself every night.


----------



## pctazhp

The wind is stirring things up outside and I put my EL11STs/EL12STs in. I can't stop listening. Just sayin'


----------



## connieflyer

I know what you mean it's 1:30 in the morning and I just keep moving from one song to the next. Life is ebbing away one song at a time.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I know what you mean it's 1:30 in the morning and I just keep moving from one song to the next. Life is ebbing away one song at a time.



I saw your post when I woke up this morning. I fell asleep last night listening. Yes our life is ebbing away. But I remember what 1:30 AM used to mean when I was younger, and I'll take the current version any day. Just wish I still had the earlier version of my body.


----------



## connieflyer

Wait, we were different at some earlier time? That must have been a good time indeed!


----------



## connieflyer

Gumby is getting better


----------



## pctazhp (May 31, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Gumby is getting better



Thermal equalization, whatever that is. I think I once experienced it at a massage parlor in Okinawa.


----------



## connieflyer

That happens if they run out of massage oil


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> That happens if they run out of massage oil



Actually, I think the correct term may be "thermal equilibrium". I don't really know. My equilibrium doesn't start kicking in until around noon. People who are trying to learn something must really hate posts like this.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Gumby is getting better



CF, so you finally got your Gumby. One song at a time is the way to burn it in. Awaiting further impressions from you when you have warm it up.

Here's a review of the Yggy. I was surprised to see mention of the Nakamichi dac (which I had posted a picture of earlier) shown in the video. A good review I'd say.


----------



## UntilThen

Enjoying 'Kind of Blue' by Miles Davis at start of day. My setup is sounding better and better every day.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Summertime has long been one of my favorite songs and there are so many wonderful recordings of it. The Kenny G version is right at the top.



Yo, PCT! In my opinion Kenny doesn't even compare to Paul Desmond:


_Summertime_

N.B.


_Wintersong_


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Here's a review of the Yggy. I was surprised to see mention of the Nakamichi dac (which I had posted a picture of earlier) shown in the video. A good review I'd say.



But now the Utopia are back on the table!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> But now the Utopia are back on the table!



Yup feel free to buy it and join the soup kitchen.


----------



## connieflyer

So far Gumby is working out nicely. Two days of burning in while about 9 hours in the last two days have been under headphones and played through my main home theater.   It is very resolving and detail retrieval is excellent.  One more week to go before I decide to keep it or not, but looks promising so far


----------



## connieflyer

Contemplating putting the Sony Hap-S1 up for sale. Not getting as much use as before.  Have gone back to pc centralized source.  Great sounding unit, but need to sell off some things to buy food next month!  Looking to buy new Jaguar so I can get a better parking spot at the grocery store!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Contemplating putting the Sony Hap-S1 up for sale. Not getting as much use as before.  Have gone back to pc centralized source.  Great sounding unit, but need to sell off some things to buy food next month!  Looking to buy new Jaguar so I can get a better parking spot at the grocery store!!



Welcome to my world. I'll see you at the soup kitchen. I'm thinking of the 2017 Rolls Royce Phantom coupe though. Has more presence and soundstage.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> So far Gumby is working out nicely. Two days of burning in while about 9 hours in the last two days have been under headphones and played through my main home theater.   It is very resolving and detail retrieval is excellent.  One more week to go before I decide to keep it or not, but looks promising so far



Now more than ever, I want to hear a Gumby. Just to hear how it compares to Yggy. Did you get a black Gumby?


----------



## connieflyer

It only came in silver. So I got a silver one. Sounds about the same as if it were black but actually I think the lighter color allows for a better transition from light to dark tones in the music.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Now more than ever, I want to hear a Gumby. Just to hear how it compares to Yggy. Did you get a black Gumby?



If he got a black one, then he has an inside track with Schiit, because they haven't been available recently on their website.

I was fascinated by the Yiggy review. I loved listening to him pronounce Yggdrasil. But my reaction to the review doesn't have much to do with Yiggy. I'm already convinced it is one of the best DACs money (which I don't have) can buy. It was the guy himself. He seems like a very reasonable, level headed person. He makes me realize what a mediocre listener I am. I think my Bimby is pretty resolving. I'm sure Gumby is more, and Yiggy even more. But I just don't think I could ever appreciate the degree of resolution he describes hearing among different DACs. Well, my days of Golden Ears are in the past. I have entered the Old Geezer Ears phase of my life.

I'm following CF's Gumby experience with interest, as I'm saving up for one. Anyone interested in a package deal on the content of my refrigerator? I'm moving to a new place within walking distance of the North Scottsdale Soup Kitchen and Sushi Bar.

Excuse me for going off topic for a moment, but with Euforia I find I am preferring my pair of Sylvania 6SN7-WGT drivers to the Sylvania 6SN7Ws, for whatever that is worth.

Question for CF: Would Euforia fit and be ok sitting on top of Gumby?


----------



## connieflyer

The amp will sit on top of Gumby with no problem. I emailed tech support about airspace and was told that if the sides and back are open you only need a quarter of an inch clearance for air space on top of Gumby. So plenty of clearance for airspace. From what I hear the North Scottsdale soup kitchen is excellent. You must get there before noon to get the best seating


----------



## canthearyou

Weird request! Anybody in southeastern Michigan have this amp and want to let a total stranger into your home to listen to it? I will bring my McIntosh MHP1000 headphones.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The amp will sit on top of Gumby with no problem. I emailed tech support about airspace and was told that if the sides and back are open you only need a quarter of an inch clearance for air space on top of Gumby. So plenty of clearance for airspace. From what I hear the North Scottsdale soup kitchen is excellent. You must get there before noon to get the best seating



Thanks. I was hoping you'd say no way, and then I could save money. Well, actually I probably just would have bought a bigger desk (((

I tip the Kitchen's concierge generously and seem to have no problem getting seated.


----------



## connieflyer

I send you dimensions so you can start looking fo desk  Size: 16 x 8.75” x 2.25”  http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
I may be late for lunch so please ask Mater D to hold my lunch!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I send you dimensions so you can start looking fo desk  Size: 16 x 8.75” x 2.25”  http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
> I may be late for lunch so please ask Mater D to hold my lunch!



Have my eye on this one at the Soup Kitchen's thrift store: https://www.luxedecor.com/product/henkel-harris-traditional-executive-desk-office-hhhhed72w

MD said not to be late. Something about 2 super hot blond Scottsdale photo models wanting to buy us lunch.


----------



## connieflyer (Jun 1, 2017)

The desk might clash with a color combination but a good coat of paint would take care of the desk. Now as far as those two hot blondes are concerned with the temperature being so hot where you are to begin with I don't know how much that of that heat this old body could take however since nothing lasts forever and what goes in between the dust to dust part sound like a great idea


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Question for CF: Would Euforia fit and be ok sitting on top of Gumby?



Many have stack their amp on top of their Gumby or Yggy. I don't like doing that though because I want to run my hand over the top of Yggy to get some winter warm.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The desk might clash with a color combination but a good coat of paint would take care of the desk. Now as far as those two hot blondes are concerned with the temperature being so hot where you are to begin with I don't know how much that of that heat this old body could take however since nothing lasts forever and what goes in between the dust to dust part sound like a great idea



Oh you must be so terribly confused. I was talking about model airplanes. UT will help you appreciate the joy of caressing the wings. 

I'm passing on the desk. I can stack Euforia on top of Gumby. Just need a black Gumby or paint my Euforia silver.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 1, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> Weird request! Anybody in southeastern Michigan have this amp and want to let a total stranger into your home to listen to it? I will bring my McIntosh MHP1000 headphones.



There's one in the southern hemisphere. You're welcome to bring your McIntosh.

I have 2 German Sherperds and 2 Dobermans patrolling the house. You will be safe.


----------



## Spork67

UntilThen said:


> There's one in the southern hemisphere. You're welcome to bring your McIntosh.
> 
> I have 2 German Sherperds and 2 Dobermans patrolling the house. You will be safe.



Southern Michigan is still Northern North America my befuddled friend.
I think too much sonic bliss and late nights listening may have dulled some of your other senses.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I was fascinated by the Yiggy review. I loved listening to him pronounce Yggdrasil. But my reaction to the review doesn't have much to do with Yiggy. I'm already convinced it is one of the best DACs money (which I don't have) can buy. It was the guy himself. He seems like a very reasonable, level headed person. He makes me realize what a mediocre listener I am. I think my Bimby is pretty resolving. I'm sure Gumby is more, and Yiggy even more. But I just don't think I could ever appreciate the degree of resolution he describes hearing among different DACs. Well, my days of Golden Ears are in the past. I have entered the Old Geezer Ears phase of my life.



Someone commented in the Yggy thread that Mike Moffat prefers the Gumby over Yggy. This was Mike's reply.

_That's a negative. My big system is a Yggy, my den system is a Gumby, and my office system is a Bimby._

Get a Yggy. Your days of Golden Ears are not in the past. 

On the 13th day, Yggy + Euforia + HD800 starts to spread it's wings. It maybe by chance or fate that I've assembled this components together but this setup sounds astonishing now. I'm about to post 'The End' sign now but I think that it will get better still with longer burn in.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Someone commented in the Yggy thread that Mike Moffat prefers the Gumby over Yggy. This was Mike's reply.
> 
> _That's a negative. My big system is a Yggy, my den system is a Gumby, and my office system is a Bimby._
> 
> ...



I just woke up and therefore not responsible for anything I say right now. Actually, I deny responsibility for anything I ever say.

There is no doubt in my mind that Yiggy is better than Gumby. Of course, the degree of difference might be debated, but I'm sure it is not minimal. Schiit has built it's reputation on providing value, and I don't believe it would sell Yiggy for $1,000 more if there was just minimal difference.

One advantage of Yiggy right now is I could get it in black, which would save me having to paint my Euforia silver and then buying another one when Lukasz tells me their warranty doesn't cover dipping Euforia into a bucket of silver paint. Also, I need CF to provide me with the dimensions of Yiggy. Oh wait, I've been to the Schiit site before. I can check that myself. I would have to take into consideration the effort that moving my desktop clock and stapler to accommodate Yiggy would entail. 

Well, time will tell. At least for the time being I can know that when Mike is in his office he and I are one with each other


----------



## UntilThen

I swap in my NAD d1050 in and thought that it sounded nice too but evidently, it's a warmer tone and the magic that I experience for the last 13 days is not there. The details are not quite there I am pretty sure. So I swap back the Yggy and bingo, the magic is back !!! Details galore and notes are so clear that they hug you and won't let you go. And that bass. Yggy handles bass so wonderfully. There's a tightness, impact and control. Soundstage is also wonderfully wide. Most of all perceive blackness is real.... mids and vocals are now cringe worthy except I won't tell Norah Jones that she is cringe worthy. Hug worthy probably.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I swap in my NAD d1050 in and thought that it sounded nice too but evidently, it's a warmer tone and the magic that I experience for the last 13 days is not there. The details are not quite there I am pretty sure. So I swap back the Yggy and bingo, the magic is back !!! Details galore and notes are so clear that they hug you and won't let you go. And that bass. Yggy handles bass so wonderfully. There's a tightness, impact and control. Soundstage is also wonderfully wide. Most of all perceive blackness is real.... mids and vocals are now cringe worthy except I won't tell Norah Jones that she is cringe worthy. Hug worthy probably.



Still can't get over how big Yiggy is. But can certainly imagine my Euforia sitting on top of Black Yiggy. And of course, the icing on the cake would be my highly coveted headphone stand: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gaming-Doub...723166?hash=item3cfabcecde:g:pzYAAOSwv0tVZik2

BTW, the most interesting thing in the picture is your PC. Is it from outer space?


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> BTW, the most interesting thing in the picture is your PC. Is it from outer space?



My PC is NASA quality.

Euforia will sits comfortable on top of Yggy but I rather not do that. Tube amps generate quite a lot of heat and there are vents below Euforia. That hot air will all go into Yggy.....

For photo shoot, it's ok.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> My PC is NASA quality.
> 
> Euforia will sits comfortable on top of Yggy but I rather not do that. Tube amps generate quite a lot of heat and there are vents below Euforia. That hot air will all go into Yggy.....
> 
> For photo shoot, it's ok.



My desk is 9 feet long. I guess if I go with Yiggy I can find some space for it without having to build a Yiggy/Euforia Christmas Tree.


----------



## aqsw

More of a lurker now than a contributor. The dac bias just killed my interest.
After many hours , the psvanes suck. Distortion again at high volume. My EL12N and EL3NS  are the way to go for me.
T1s for movies,  Focals for music!
Sargeant Peppers sounds really god on Tidal


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> More of a lurker now than a contributor. The dac bias just killed my interest.
> After many hours , the psvanes suck. Distortion again at high volume. My EL12N and EL3NS  are the way to go for me.
> T1s for movies,  Focals for music!
> Sargeant Peppers sounds really god on Tidal



Hello Aq, was wondering where you been ! Sorry to hear your interest was killed. What happened here was that some of us were just praising the sound we are hearing from our newly acquired dacs with Euforia and headphones, particularly me. Bias it is not. I wouldn't be praising something I have not heard but in this instance, I'm experiencing Yggy myself. Notice I did not put down other dacs I have not heard.

Feel free to share your tube dac and how it sound with Euforia.

Not sure why your Psvanes is having distortion. Mine is perfectly ok and sounded good.


----------



## UntilThen

The highest praise heaped upon Yggy is by this recent review from Stereophile. My rantings are nothing compared to Herb Reichert's eloquence.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-da-processor


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> The highest praise heaped upon Yggy is by this recent review from Stereophile. My rantings are nothing compared to Herb Reichert's eloquence.
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-da-processor



Interesting and well written review, and nice recognition for Yiggy. I for one have been enjoying your Yiggy adventure. Since Elise was first introduced there sure has been a lot of discussion of owners' experience with headphones with F-A amps. Not sure why DACs should be any different.


----------



## connieflyer

This will help you get moving and motivated this morning PCT


----------



## connieflyer

Also these will help jog your memory


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Not sure why DACs should be any different.



It is not any different. 

In fact, I've found out that DAC (as have many of you) is just as important, if not more than amp or headphone in your system.

On a different subject, I've just been watching the 'History of the Eagles' on Netflix. Interesting how they started out, both Don and Glen as backup band members for Linda Rondstat. Oh well as interesting as that was, I have to switch back to listening to good quality music on Tidal HiFi. Netflix sound is just plain horrible.


----------



## pctazhp

Well CF's music certainly woke me up. Did you say I need to go out for a jog??? I certainly hope not!!!!

Well, the day is still young and I've already learned something new. Had no idea Don and Glen were backup band members for Tucson Arizona's Linda Rondstadt!!!

Speaking of memories:


----------



## pctazhp

And of course


----------



## UntilThen

Yup when Linda was this young and this song brings back memories.


----------



## UntilThen

CF and Pct, I'm now considering your ASUS Stx ii sound card while waiting for Schiit's upgrade.

For $208 it probably will make my Bose Companion 5 sound better. 

So how much of an improvement is it over USB... in my case it's USB gen 3.


----------



## UntilThen

It says on the ebay ad as HiFi quality sound card with free sipping!!!

Must be good wine.


----------



## connieflyer

I would ask him not to drink too much while packaging it!  I find that coax, at least to me, is more resolving and less noisy than usb. Also seems more "there" there if you get my meaning.


----------



## pctazhp

OK. I have consulted with Professor Pctazhp, but he is drunk right now, and making no sense. However, I happened to be doing some reading this morning and someone was saying the Gen 3 USB input on Yiggy is a significant improvement over the Gen 2 in the other Schiit DACs. So I can't personally vouch for what improvement, if any, the ASUS card would be over Yiggy USB. I would also note that the HoloAudio DDC thing-a-magig I have does a pretty decent job with Bimby and it is $90 cheaper than ASUS. Right now the professor would vouch for anything I asked him to, but that would be of no value.

Might want to consider waiting for Eilr, which I don't think will be too much longer in coming. Also keep in mind that Manhattan Project may be impossible to live without and no doubt will sell for more than peanuts or cactus candy.


----------



## UntilThen

So as not to tip this thread overboard with DAC talk, I shall now focus on my system as a whole. I have decided to call my system UntilThen.... because it is evolving so it's appropriate.

I've clean up my Sylvania 6sn7w. Literally polish it so it's shining. Behold, here with Tung Sol 5998. With UntilThen, I'm listening to 'Rattle That Lock' by David Gilmour. It's going to be a long day of listening to music.


----------



## UntilThen

Viola. 

Connected my Onkyo DVD player to Yggy - Euforia - HD800 and it's crystal. I don't remember CD direct sounding so good and now it's an MIT Terminator 5 coaxial connection to Yggy. Now there's a reason I have 300+ CDs.

@angpsi  can I borrow your Krell CD player?


----------



## pctazhp

I'm joining The More I Listen To Euforia The Better It Gets - Must Still Be Burning In Club. Sorry no ostentatious gold and silver pictures this morning


----------



## connieflyer

Finally found Gungnir's  hum problem.  I had put it in the same spot that I had the PSAudio New wave dac and same cable connections. At low volume did not detect this at first. At ample volume something was not right.  Stopping music so no source connected. Turned volume up and 3/4 full started to hear hum. Thought at first it might be tube, swapped them, still hum, swapped pwr, rca cables and  better. Removed unit moved pwr cable to new outlet, different rca cables and moved unit. Hum now gone, apparently not shielded from hum as well as psaudio.   Swapped psaudio back to original position with original cable hook up. No hum. Definetly gumby.  Not impressed with unit selling for over $1200 to isolate so much.  Will give it four more days.  Have to reconfigure equipment setup and cabling for a unit that does sound better now, but $1200 better than psaudio, not so sure.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> @angpsi  can I borrow your Krell CD player?


Better yet, you can have this masterpiece for only $999!




On the other hand, for $8 this may come in cheaper and perhaps offer a satisfactory placebo effect!


----------



## UntilThen

CF, sorry to hear about your hum problems. For me, Yggy did the opposite. It silence my system. Hum will put us off listening and enjoying music. Whatever DAC you end up using, I wish you a glitch free experience.


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @angpsi  but I'll settle for a Marantz ken ishiwata cd player.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks UT just a case of trying to balance out how much the last two dacs are costing me as to whether I should keep this one or not. It does sound very good but it's not very far at all above the PS audio so do I keep it do I send it back lose 5% plus the shipping both ways hard to say right this minute not a good week to make up my mind. It wasn't for the leftover pizza I wouldn't even know what to have for dinner tonight!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Thanks @angpsi  but I'll settle for a Marantz ken ishiwata cd player.


Yours already or buying it? We're talking about the Marantz CD63 MK II KI, right? Still fetches a good $350 as I see in HiFiShark! Talk about vintage parts!...


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> The volume knob on my Euforia has an almost invisible thin groove to indicate the volume level. Any suggestions how to easily color it in so that I can see it better? I tried a very thin sliver of a white self stick label but it does not look that great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





mordy said:


> Hi Oskari,
> 
> Was thinking of a fine point correction pen, but the tip may be too wide.


What i did on my WA22 is use acrylic dollar store paint just apply to groove with a brush and wipe off excess paint  its water based so cleans up nicely


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> What i did on my WA22 is use acrylic dollar store paint just apply to groove with a brush and wipe off excess paint  its water based so cleans up nicely


Hi Mikelap,

Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

I can't believe when my GEC 6080 with original boxes arrived. They are as NOS as can be. Logos intact and tubes are gleaming.

For $160 a pair with free shipping it's a bargain.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 5, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Yours already or buying it? We're talking about the Marantz CD63 MK II KI, right? Still fetches a good $350 as I see in HiFiShark! Talk about vintage parts!...



Not mine. What I need is a good CD transport to pass the digital signals to Yggy. Listening to 'Hell Freezes Over' by the Eagles - JVC XRCD extended resolution CD. I've just discovered what a joy it is to listen to CDs again.

Could be the GEC 6080 or I just had a bath or my discovery using a CD player into Yggy or Euforia singing with extended burn in or HD800 approaching full burn in. It's glorious this musical experience.


----------



## connieflyer

What connection input are you using for the cd player? If coax, that is part of it. When I had to move my gumby around to find a hum free zone for the little snowflake noticed that the coax connection on the back was a little loose, sent off email to Schiit for repair.  The good thing is plugging and un plugging the jack a few times must have made a better connection to the board, as the gumby is singing like nothing else I have heard. I could not understand the praise it got, as to me in my system it was just a little better than my psaudio,  was ready to return for refund.  But after the coax made better connection, this unit sounds better than I have ever heard, on Euforia and Senn 800. Now I just hope they can fix it with out messing it up. Plus, I will be out more shipping charges for a problem that should have been found before it ever left the factory.  Got by their quality control, not a good sign. Considered not sending it back but trying to make repair myself but decided against that for now.  Now I understand why UT was so impressed with his Dac, it makes sense now.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 5, 2017)

Yes coax with my 19 years old high fidelity MIT Terminator 5 coax cable, bought when I bought all my home theatre gear back in 1998. 

I'm sold on CD now. 

Sounds cleaner, more coherent than playback from my nearly new PC. Understandably so as PC is not really a serious playback medium. It is a computer ! Yggy just remove any trace of digital glare and presents a very natural sound that is pleasing to the ears. This hybrid SACD EMI version of Dark Side Of The Moon sounds very good. Moving on to Dire Straits Brothers In Arms Remastered now.

I have Sylvania 6sn7wgt and GEC 6080 in Euforia now. Big smile here. Impressions will come a few days later. I have to plough through my CDs first.


----------



## UntilThen

Pictures of the GEC 6080. This has to be my best tube purchase in terms of price to performance ratio. Looks so new. I wonder when they were manufactured. @Oskari can you tell by looking at the code?
SH Z ...


----------



## Tunkejazz

Euforia arrived yesterday 
First impressions are excellent, although I need some time to really compare with the sound from my project Ember.
Bass response is truly impressive very well defined and I can only agree with others assessment regarding the upper end, I haven't managed to find a single track that made the sound harsh or overly bright. I think those are, a priori, the two outstanding sound features that have cough my attention.

Very satisfied with the purchase!


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Euforia arrived yesterday
> First impressions are excellent



At last we're back on topic with Euforia. 

Well done, you pick out Euforia's traits correctly but those are only 2. Nice picture by the way. 'Right by the window' is a good metaphor. From here on, it will be your window to musical discovery. Until tubes, dacs, headphones suck you in because you know that Euforia needs to be partnered with the best gear you can afford.


----------



## Tunkejazz

BTW, does anyone know the output impedance of Euforia?


----------



## UntilThen

^ Elise is 45 ohms. Not sure about Euforia. Ask Lukasz. I think he is on holiday. Hasn't replied to my email for many days.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning Tunkejazz, glad you are enjoying the new amp. As it gets more hours on it will continue to improve.  When you are ready to roll a few tubes you will see it shine even more.  I really enjoyed my Ember as well, but this amp is way above it.  I had Jeremy build mine he hand selected the best parts and it was quite good.  I had serial number 0011 so was an early adopter. Did all the 9 pin tubes, and many of the 6sn7 tubes and one of my favorites was the dual Ken-Rad 7193. Take your time, get some time to burn in the amp and then decide where you want to go with tubes, (if any) and enjoy.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> What connection input are you using for the cd player? If coax, that is part of it. When I had to move my gumby around to find a hum free zone for the little snowflake noticed that the coax connection on the back was a little loose, sent off email to Schiit for repair.  The good thing is plugging and un plugging the jack a few times must have made a better connection to the board, as the gumby is singing like nothing else I have heard. I could not understand the praise it got, as to me in my system it was just a little better than my psaudio,  was ready to return for refund.  But after the coax made better connection, this unit sounds better than I have ever heard, on Euforia and Senn 800. Now I just hope they can fix it with out messing it up. Plus, I will be out more shipping charges for a problem that should have been found before it ever left the factory.  Got by their quality control, not a good sign. Considered not sending it back but trying to make repair myself but decided against that for now.  Now I understand why UT was so impressed with his Dac, it makes sense now.



I don't know Schiit's warranty policy but because you received a defective unit you should not have to pay shipping. Tell them if they won't pay shipping I'm going to sue them for you and seek punitive damages - namely a free Gumby for me. Actually, they should send you a new unit and after they fix yours sell it as B-stock (to me). In the meantime just don't breath while you are listening or anywhere near your system. If you do decide to fix it yourself we can discuss the brand and flavor of chewing gum you will use. Glad all seems to be working out for you with Gumby)))

And @UntilThen, I (the humble person that I am) am the first person on any F-A thread to speak favorably of GEC6080 (well at least I think I am) and I encouraged you to buy that pair, so I'll accept your heartfelt thanks in advance.


----------



## connieflyer

How do they compare to the Tung Sol 5998?


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> But after the coax made better connection, this unit sounds better than I have ever heard, on Euforia and Senn 800.



I have no doubt now that Euforia and HD800 is a great combination. Elise too...

On the same token, I have no doubt Euforia and Elise with T1 is a great combination too. I just can't wear both headphones at the same time but I swap them often.

HD800 is more relaxed but very resolving still. T1 sounds sharper to me now that I get the chance to compare both in the comfort of my den. For long term listening I found myself reaching for HD800 more. HD800 comfort is also a big factor.


----------



## pctazhp

Tunkejazz said:


> Euforia arrived yesterday
> First impressions are excellent, although I need some time to really compare with the sound from my project Ember.
> Bass response is truly impressive very well defined and I can only agree with others assessment regarding the upper end, I haven't managed to find a single track that made the sound harsh or overly bright. I think those are, a priori, the two outstanding sound features that have cough my attention.
> 
> Very satisfied with the purchase!



You get the official award as Best Picture of Euforia So Far ))) Welcome to our exclusive club. As a member your responsibilities will be daunting. But the rewards are incalculable


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> How do they compare to the Tung Sol 5998?



I assume your question is directed to UT because no one ever wants to know what I think. But I'll respond anyway. I think the GECs are substantially better than the TSs, but I've never been a strong proponent of the TS5998 like UT has.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> And @UntilThen, I (the humble person that I am) am the first person on any F-A thread to speak favorably of GEC6080 (well at least I think I am) and I encouraged you to buy that pair, so I'll accept your heartfelt thanks in advance.



Not quite. 

Oskari has the GEC 6080 for a long time now. So did hpamdr. Even Mikelap has the GEC 6080 in his WA22 in the picture above. However I will pin a medal on you because you talk the most about it. 

I have not done any evaluation of it against the Bendix 6080wb so I'll reserve my judgement till later on which I prefer..... 

CF, GEC 6080 sounds quite different from TS 5998. It's more relaxed and comforting. So depending on what salads you have it with, your choice of dinner depends on the day of the week.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I have no doubt now that Euforia and HD800 is a great combination. Elise too...
> 
> On the same token, I have no doubt Euforia and Elise with T1 is a great combination too. I just can't wear both headphones at the same time but I swap them often.
> 
> HD800 is more relaxed but very resolving still. T1 sounds sharper to me now that I get the chance to compare both in the comfort of my den. For long term listening I found myself reaching for HD800 more. HD800 comfort is also a big factor.



I must be in a really cranky mood this morning, but I think CF's main point was to praise Gumby in his system after he discovered the loose connection problem and temporarily fixed it - not necessarily to place special emphasis on HD800. I'm in the process of seeking retroactive authority from CF to speak on his behalf.

And while I'm at it, I want to ditto CF about your experience with CD player. It may be that you are using coax with the CD player that accounts for the difference. You might have similar improvement using something like the ASUS board with your PC to avoid USB.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> However I will pin a medal on you because you talk the most about it.



Can we refer to that as the Mr. Loudmouth Medal????


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> How do they compare to the Tung Sol 5998?



Let's just say that if you want to do the salsa, you'd use the 5998. If on the other hand you want to do some ballroom dancing, you'd pick the GEC 6080.

Salsa

 

Ballroom


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Pictures of the GEC 6080. This has to be my best tube purchase in terms of price to performance ratio. Looks so new. I wonder when they were manufactured. @Oskari can you tell by looking at the code?
> SH Z ...



They look very nice.

S = 1961. H = August. Z = MOV, Hammersmith.


----------



## UntilThen

You have no idea how good Yggy sounds now with CD input. So much so I'm eyeing this except the price has too many zeroes behind it.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/123777-gryphon-mikado-signature-cd-player/


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> They look very nice.
> 
> S = 1961. H = August. Z = MOV, Hammersmith.



Thank you thank you. 1961. Not too old and not too young. Still it's a marvel the tubes are so new. It's been 56 years !!!


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> You have no idea how good Yggy sounds now with CD input. So much so I'm eyeing this except the price has too many zeroes behind it.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/123777-gryphon-mikado-signature-cd-player/



And you have no idea of how good Yiggy would sound if you were using ASUS board. And apparently you have no idea of how brilliant I am. Most importantly, I'm guessing my father could have beat up your father.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG I just received the best news from Lukasz.

My Elise refurbishment is complete. A complete makeover except for the transfo and chassis. So essentially a new Elise with the latest specs. An upgraded Elise !!! Let the comparison between Elise and Euforia begin.... soon when I get it back.

I'm not going to tell you the cost because you will faint but I am so happy now I need to go to the toilet....


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> At last we're back on topic with Euforia.
> 
> Well done, you pick out Euforia's traits correctly but those are only 2. Nice picture by the way. 'Right by the window' is a good metaphor. From here on, it will be your window to musical discovery. Until tubes, dacs, headphones suck you in because you know that Euforia needs to be partnered with the best gear you can afford.



Yes! The window is great 
In the end I have decided to have it in my office, and move Ember to my apartment. The wow factor of my desk has gone up by miles!


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning Tunkejazz, glad you are enjoying the new amp. As it gets more hours on it will continue to improve.  When you are ready to roll a few tubes you will see it shine even more.  I really enjoyed my Ember as well, but this amp is way above it.  I had Jeremy build mine he hand selected the best parts and it was quite good.  I had serial number 0011 so was an early adopter. Did all the 9 pin tubes, and many of the 6sn7 tubes and one of my favorites was the dual Ken-Rad 7193. Take your time, get some time to burn in the amp and then decide where you want to go with tubes, (if any) and enjoy.



Hi CF, the 7193 is also one of my favorite combos with the Ember, along with Visseaux 6J5 and a number of good 6SN7 tubes 
But no tube has ever made Ember sing like Euforia is doing right now!


----------



## pctazhp

Quick update. I put one of CF's Amazon special power cords on Bimby last night and it is another nice improvement. I've been using one for a while on Euforia because it also upped Euforia's game


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,

This is a quote from the website of Shiiiiiiiiiii:

*Warranty*
*Did you say you have a 5-year warranty?*
Up to 5 years, yes. The specific warranty length is noted on each product page, and complete terms are available in the downloadable manuals. 

*Who pays shipping if I need warranty service?*
You pay shipping to us, and we pay shipping back, unless no fault is found. In that case you pay shipping both ways.

*Wait a sec, what if I get something that's bad out of the box? You mean I have to ship it back?*
If you have a problem within 15 days of receiving the product, let us know and we'll do everything we can to swap it out for you quickly, at no cost to you. However, please note that for trans-shipped products, this will only cover shipping to the trans-shipper.


----------



## mordy

Hi Tunkejazz,

Gratulerar pa den nya Euforia! The only thing missing is that little dot over the i - I mean the little white line on the volume knob! As everybody points out, it will continue to improve for another 50 hours+.
If you have pairs of the 6SN7 tubes you may want to try them; even mixing single tubes works fine at times.


----------



## connieflyer

And it went. Got email from Schist this morning, gummy is on the way back and they are sending out exchange. Now that is what I call great service


----------



## connieflyer (Jun 5, 2017)

They emailed a Fedex shipping label and on confirmation. From Fedex it shipped they will send out a new one. Nothing for me to complain about, service was great. Things happen,s that counts. They handled it fast and fair,  much better and faster than Feliks Audio did. I have to give them high marks for this transaction. When my euforia arrived,damaged, took them a couple of days to respond and they said to ship it back to Poland and they would repair it. At my expense for shipping when it was there poor packaging that was at fault. So I said no I would repair it myself and they sent out parts took two weeks to get here so I would say Schiit
did a great job and would recommend them and purchase again.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, just got tracking number for my replacement gumby now this is how things are should work. This insures confidence in purchasing. I am amazed.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Okay, just got tracking number for my replacement gumby now this is how things are should work. This insures confidence in purchasing. I am amazed.



Very happy to hear that CF. Schiit not only produced excellent multibit DACs but their service is outstanding.

In defence though, I have to say that Feliks Audio service have been more than outstanding, in my experience. I can recommend them highly too. Lukasz has always responded and is a great person to communicate with. So it might take a few days sometimes but as a small boutique manufacturer, that level of service is IMO outstanding. I know of several instances where they were willing to replace the unit without fuss. However I haven't heard of too many defects. Far and few in between in fact. Attention to details and QC is very good.

Anyhoo, glad that you have a great outcome and are happy with Gumby's sound now.  One thing's for sure. I won't be returning Yggy.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Pictures of the GEC 6080. This has to be my best tube purchase in terms of price to performance ratio. Looks so new. I wonder when they were manufactured. @Oskari can you tell by looking at the code?
> SH Z ...




Very nice.
Great sounding tubes too.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Quick update. I put one of CF's Amazon special power cords on Bimby last night and it is another nice improvement. I've been using one for a while on Euforia because it also upped Euforia's game



Use a CD player into your Bimby via coax and see Euforia's game set and match. 

CD player noise floor is totally none existent compared to PC. I can't hear any noise. I still use PC though because I can multitask, explore music in Tidal and when I don't really care about quality music and just listen to some Youtube.

2 hookups to Yggy now. From CD player and PC. When Elise comes back, it will be hook up to 2 amps via rca analogue.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Pictures of the GEC 6080. This has to be my best tube purchase in terms of price to performance ratio. Looks so new. I wonder when they were manufactured. @Oskari can you tell by looking at the code?
> SH Z ...


How do they compare to the Mullard 6080?


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Yes coax with my 19 years old high fidelity MIT Terminator 5 coax cable, bought when I bought all my home theatre gear back in 1998.
> 
> I'm sold on CD now.
> 
> ...





UntilThen said:


> You have no idea how good Yggy sounds now with CD input. So much so I'm eyeing this except the price has too many zeroes behind it.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/123777-gryphon-mikado-signature-cd-player/


Well, this costs less $ on the second-hand market and it will play your SACD tracks too!






More pics here: http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SCD-1.html


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Use a CD player into your Bimby via coax and see Euforia's game set and match.
> 
> CD player noise floor is totally none existent compared to PC. I can't hear any noise. I still use PC though because I can multitask, explore music in Tidal and when I don't really care about quality music and just listen to some Youtube.
> 
> 2 hookups to Yggy now. From CD player and PC. When Elise comes back, it will be hook up to 2 amps via rca analogue.



It's kind of funny. Just the mention of a "CD player" now seems so 1990s or maybe even 1980s )))) I think I mentioned a while back that when I had my Theta 5 I also had Mike Moffat's CD player which was really a highly modified Pioneer Laserdisk player. It fed the Theta directly with AES/EBU. I think that was the summit for me. If I still had his CD player, I would order the Yiggy. But instead Gumby will probably be headed my way  in less than 30 days.

Of course, if I still had that CD player, I'd also still have my Vandersteen Fives, Jeff Rowland preamp, Basis 2500 turntable, Graham arm, Koetsu cartridge, John Curl designed balanced Parasound mono-blocks and tens of thousands of dollars worth of MIT cables (not to mention 2500 vinyl records including .....oh never mind - I start to get physically ill when I think of all the priceless records I unloaded), and I would never have even heard of HeadFi !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

Oh, and speaking of SACD, I forgot to mention the Marantz SACD player I used to have!!!!


----------



## myphone

angpsi said:


> How do they compare to the Mullard 6080?



I have Mullard 6080, GEC 6080, and 5998. 

GEC 6080 is somewhere between Mullard 6080, and 5998, closer to mullard than 5998. 

Mullard is the warmest and has least bandwidth, and 5998 has the highest resolution and widest bandwidth..

With T1 and HD800, the combos I like: Mullard with Tungsol Mouse ears, GEC with Sylvania WGT, 5998 with 5692 or RCA smoke VT231.


----------



## myphone

To my ears, 5998 /sylvania GTW is a bit too bright. Mullard 6080/sylvania GTW is a bit too warm.


----------



## angpsi

Hi pct, looks like UT's trip into vintage land got us quite emotional! Nevertheless, while I was strolling down memory lane I also stumbled into this, which I think is a very interesting read - especially for UT who's out looking for a transport! http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/CD_transport_DIY.html

For all the right memories just scroll strait to the bottom of the page! I'll just put a teaser here in my post:


----------



## angpsi (Jun 5, 2017)

myphone said:


> I have Mullard 6080, GEC 6080, and 5998.
> 
> GEC 6080 is somewhere between Mullard 6080, and 5998, closer to mullard than 5998.
> 
> ...


Thanks @myphone , much appreciated! So it looks like TS is the 'edgy' tube and Sylvania is the 'soft' one, right?


----------



## myphone

5998 with Nu


----------



## myphone




----------



## myphone

Mullard 6080 with Tungsol mouse ears (Thank UT for the correct term).


----------



## angpsi

myphone said:


>


Wow, is that an EarMax sitting on top of the Euforia? How does it fare against Feliks? I was looking into it before I ended up with Elise...


----------



## connieflyer

Actually that is a nice cd transport @angpsi but I prefer this line http://www.mbl-northamerica.com/mbl-1621/


----------



## connieflyer

In fact when I hit the lotto this is the system I would get


----------



## myphone

angpsi said:


> Wow, is that an EarMax sitting on top of the Euforia? How does it fare against Feliks? I was looking into it before I ended up with Elise...



EarMax, pairing with HD650/600, is great in playing small scale classical music, chamber music, violin sonata, and OMG cello. Music is delicate and just flows beautifully.  

Euforia is much more versatile, plays really well with various kinds of music and different phones such as HD800 and T1, in addition to HD 650).

For large scale orchestral  music, solid state Sennheiser HDVA 600 running balanced has even better scale control.

Euforia is a wonderful platform to explore various flavors to fit one's style of music and mood.

If I had to keep one amp, it would be Euforia. I had used Earmax and HDVA 600 for years before Euforia.


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Hi pct, looks like UT's trip into vintage land got us quite emotional! Nevertheless, while I was strolling down memory lane I also stumbled into this, which I think is a very interesting read - especially for UT who's out looking for a transport! http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/CD_transport_DIY.html



Well angpsi, it appears that you, UT, CF and others who are thinking, talking and/or using transports are not total Looney Tunes. You appear to be in good company. Silver disks, vinyl records??? The more things change, the more they stay the same. They just get more expensive. Have you tried hooking up a crystal radio to Euforia??? This one looks mighty sweet.


----------



## pctazhp

On the subject of Euforia and tubes, I fear that my crackling GEC6AS7G may be deteriorating more, and I'm getting nervous about continuing its use and risking whatever dastardly things can happen to an amp running a bad tube. Fortunately GEC6080 is a worthy substitute - probably even better.

Strange. The GEC6AS7G is the only tube I own that has ever given even a hint of going bad.


----------



## myphone

angpsi said:


> Thanks @myphone , much appreciated! So it looks like TS is the 'edgy' tube and Sylvania is the 'soft' one, right?



TS is the "edge" tube, RCA is the "soft" one, Sylvania is in the middle, close to be neutral.


----------



## UntilThen

Will you stop being so generous with my money. Stop enticing me with gorgeous looking CD players. If I had to spend that kind of, I might as well get a top end Turntable. Then I don't have to worry about converting digital to analogue.

You know where all this is leading to right? After you have attain nirvana with your headfi system, you would want to start on the high end stereo system.

So take my advice. Just get a Sony Walkman and be done with it.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Will you stop being so generous with my money. Stop enticing me with gorgeous looking CD players.



Is this the theater of the absurd?? You are the chief culprit and bottle washer around here. I played this for you before, but I think it bears repeating. You are......


----------



## pctazhp

In Scottsdale tonight strings are massing in wave after wave of passion and lust, horns are piercing the deepest recesses of the soul, percussion is shaking the foundation at earthquake levels, and it all is coalescing like a million exploding stars. Thank you Euforia.


----------



## angpsi (Jun 6, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Actually that is a nice cd transport @angpsi but I prefer this line http://www.mbl-northamerica.com/mbl-1621/


Might as well go for the full setup then! Dreaming comes with no charge, right? http://www.mbl-northamerica.com/products/reference-line/
Edit: just saw you beat me to it!


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> In fact when I hit the lotto this is the system I would get


Let me know when you hit the jackpot, I'll design you the house!


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Will you stop being so generous with my money. Stop enticing me with gorgeous looking CD players. If I had to spend that kind of, I might as well get a top end Turntable. Then I don't have to worry about converting digital to analogue.
> 
> You know where all this is leading to right? After you have attain nirvana with your headfi system, you would want to start on the high end stereo system.
> 
> So take my advice. Just get a Sony Walkman and be done with it.




A Technics 1200 with a nice tone arm and cartridge may would sound wonderful, and would not completely smash your wallet, lol


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> A Technics 1200 with a nice tone arm and cartridge may would sound wonderful, and would not completely smash your wallet, lol



Yeah the Technics 1200 50th anniversary limited edition model is $4000. 

Besides I have only 57 LPs......

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jan/08/panasonic-technics-1200-turntable-price-review


----------



## UntilThen

This is all you need.... plus a pair of KEF LS50. Those 3 components are so good together, I need to post it again in a different shade.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 6, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Strange. The GEC6AS7G is the only tube I own that has ever given even a hint of going bad.



How did your Gec 6as7g go bad so quickly? Here I am thinking of splurging on a NOS pair....


----------



## UntilThen

This combination is the definition of revelation. So good is the GEC 6080 with 6sn7w, it got me thinking, how much better is the GEC 6as7g? My memory of the 6as7g has faded. I need to get a pair. It's the last of the tubes I'm chasing..... trust me.


----------



## UntilThen

I can't get enough of listening to this group. The sound now is so sweet, the electric guitar so vivid and vibrant, the drums so impactful, it's live here and now. Mercy me. I am getting overdosed now.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Gumby will probably be headed my way in less than 30 days.



Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That would make us brothers in arms 

It will make your Euforia and HD800S sing like never before. I want to hear from you personally how much of an improvement Gumby is over Bimby in SE mode. Never mind the nay sayers. I want to hear it from you.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That would make us brothers in arms
> 
> It will make your Euforia and HD800S sing like never before. I want to hear from you personally how much of an improvement Gumby is over Bimby in SE mode. Never mind the nay sayers. I want to hear it from you.



You know me. I'll post about whether I'm having cream or not with my coffee in the morning. So of course I'll let you know about Gumby v Bimby )))  I've read that the Gumby balanced configuration is summed for the RCA outputs and that the XLR output is not necessarily significant better than RCA - or stated more positively the RCA output is almost as good as the XLR. 

I assume you saw the TAS Yiggy review. You certainly have moved up to rarefied air with Yiggy. One post I read speculated that Yiggy will probably be TAS's DAC of the Year, and maybe even product of the year.

I've said this a million times (which for me is never enough) so I'll say it again. I believe that Schiit Multibit DACs and F-A amps share a common quality, and that is they both offer exceptional value for their price points. They give those of us who are swimming in their waters a true upper-level summit-quality listening experience (mixed metaphor of water and mountain intended) without having to spend Mt. Everest level money. Looking up at Yiggy from my current Bimby plateau the price difference between where I'm standing and your vaulted height seems daunting. But really, the price of Yiggy is extremely reasonable given that there seems little question it is one of the best DACs in the world. And, as I've pointed out 1,302,429 times, it is modular and can be updated at reasonable expense if Schiit develops significant new technology. 

Having said all that, and having never heard Yiggy or Gumby, I do want to say I think Bimby is an absolutely amazing DAC, and if it was the best I could ever own I would not feel deprived in any way. With the recent addition of Euforia, the ASUS card and (I'll even say) CF's Amazon special power cord for Bimby, my system is absolutely stellar. It is clean, detailed, highly dynamic, organic, natural, musical and engaging. The degree of improvement that the last month or so has brought is impossible to describe. And the source for all of this has remained Bimby. It just has been unleashed by feeding it SPDIF free of USB and gracing it with a fascinating power cord discovered by CF - while at the same time benefiting from a much cleaner window (Euforia) between it and my HD800S phones.

No cream this morning, BTW.


----------



## connieflyer

HUH???


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> It's the last of the tubes I'm chasing..... trust me.


Lol. Nope.


----------



## UntilThen

Huh Pct, those were the words I wanted to say (TAS review) but I just haven't put it down on paper yet. 

...one of greatest bargains in the history of high end audio.... hello..... no wonder I'm kind of sleep deprived since Yggy came.

Ah ha, note that Robert Harley commented on how good Yggy's USB is. My ears tells me so. Don't underestimate Yggy's USB Gen 3. 

@Oskari  that is a definite yes. It is the tube to end it all. My swan song to tube rolling and kiss my $500 good bye or good buy.... no definitely good bye.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> HUH???



Once you wake up all will become clear !!!


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> @Oskari that is a definite yes. It is the tube to end it all. My swan song to tube rolling and kiss my $500 good bye or good buy.... no definitely good bye.



Just don't be surprised if you don't like it better than 6080.



UntilThen said:


> Don't underestimate Yggy's USB Gen 3.



Mike Moffat does. That's all that matters.


----------



## connieflyer

myphone said:


> TS is the "edge" tube, RCA is the "soft" one, Sylvania is in the middle, close to be neutral.


Do you know where the GEC 6080 would fit in this?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Do you know where the GEC 6080 would fit in this?



Aren't those driver tubes? GEC 6080 is a power tube. So I don't exactly understand your question, but that never stops me from providing an answer.

First, I should say that for whatever reason I subjectively feel that tube choice is less important with Euforia than with Elise. Also, my patience for closely comparing tubes has grown thin over the past year (as opposed to my body which has grown fat).

My feeling is the GEC6AS7G is more laid back than the 6080 and perhaps more detailed. To me 6080 has more punch and is maybe more emotionally involving. I don't want to try to discourage anyone from buying a GEC6AS7G because it has certainly established a reputation as perhaps the best sounding 6AS7G tube available. I'm just not convinced myself it is work the current prices. I got my pair as part of a package deal, but the cost allocated to the GECs was essentially $250 for the pair. That was certainly worth it (assuming the crackling one can somehow be cured - by cleaning pins or something like that), but $500 seems pretty steep to me.

I believe that within the range you reference, GEC6080 would probably be in the middle a little closer to the TS tube and GEC6AS7G would also be in the middle but a little closer to the RCA. What I can tell you for sure is that both the 6AS7G and 6080 GECs mate very well with Sylvania 6SN7-WTG drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

Brilliant thought of the morning:  GEC6080 is the Euforia of power tubes - incredible value, top performer!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

Just one final comment on Bimby. I read that at the recent LA show, Schiit was running Maggie speakers driven by the Bifrost/Freya/Vidar, and I have heard some positive reports. Schiit obviously considers Bimby suitable for demonstrating an important system like that which  had to take up important space in their room. I just believe that Bifrost Multibit should not ever have to feel embarrassed (you do realize DACs have feelings) by being in a Euforia level system.

I fully understand this is a Euforia thread and I'm going to try to get away from further DAC talk unless and until I get a Gumby.


----------



## connieflyer

Any reputable dealers that you know of that are selling GEC ?6080


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> Any reputable dealers that you know of that are selling GEC ?6080


Langrex's got three, albeit somewhat different to each other:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-A1834-MARCONI-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC19-/272386263827
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV2984-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC42-/262610696072
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV5008-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC7-/262615260995


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi folks...glad to see everyone's still loving their Euforias (and that I myself don't have to keep heaping endless praise on her!! ). Nice too that you, @Tunkejazz, are also agreeing with us already lol! I foresee a good many late nights ahead for you, just as a good few here have enjoyed before you!...(me included)...

I suppose I must take a fair bit of the blame for recent 'frenzy' concerning DACs, after my own foray into upgrades of system elements, especially Chord Hugo 2 territory (for which, alas, I must wait until end July probably, given the delay in final release, even though the first units have now shipped). With any luck, I hope to have more time by then to add even more to this discussion...sorry @aqsw!).

In my (and others'!) defence, as I have mentioned many times already, this has been - and still is - all in the interests of gaining the maximum possible performance from this wonderful amp. Just as I personally was beginning to believe I'd pushed her almost to the limit, I have been astounded at the leaps in performance from upgrades elsewhere...as covered in depth already, and before the new DAC even! On the subject of which...*AT LAST!!!*...my pronouncements on what can be achieved from 'standard' CD quality material - given the right equipment, and preferably _coax_ connection - are being confirmed by such as your good selves @UntilThen and @pctazhp!! . Euforia just seems to keep on rising to the challenge, and hence justifies the rather high cost of the sort of gear we have been covering recently. I myself still don't regret a single penny of the higher-than-expected assault on my own wallet of late lol! The sound now emanating from my T1s via the upgrades is a mile away from stock...there's simply no comparison. And I wish you all the same kind of success, if (and when!) contemplating any future forays into this territory...

So it's 'bye for now y'all, and keep on enjoying what Euforia can bring into our lives...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. So glad things turned out well for you and your Gumby @connieflyer...and that pct and UT don't seem to be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land after all - _too_ often, at least!!  ...BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

thank you for the info, ordered two supposedly they come with tea and crumpets as well!


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> thank you for the info, ordered two supposedly they come with tea and crumpets as well!


Hope you enjoy them! The Mullards I got were in pristine condition, as advertised. I hope to experience the same with the Syl wgt - which just came in at the post office to pick them up, might I add! If I'm not mistaken many people here have had equally positive experiences from Langrex. Doing my own research, they look like the real deal; just look at the almost perfectly positive reviews they've had out of a clientele the numbers of which rise up to four digits!


----------



## pctazhp

Hi @hypnos1 Glad to see you checking in. I start to getting pretty insecure when we don't hear from you for a while. Whether you like it or not you remain our Fearless Leader 

Sorry about the delay on Hugo2. I've tried to think of something comforting to say, but can't. The delay just sucks plain and simple!!!!

Hope you are in excellent health and of good cheer. Doing my best to stay out of the clouds, but I get very dizzy whenever my feet are on solid ground


----------



## UntilThen

Hello @hypnos1  good to hear from you again...... now stay ! You have been missed. 

Frenzy DACs have been worth it all. Takes it to the stratosphere. Problem is the flight capsule has no return button to earth.

GEC 6as7g..... ok there has been many opinions ... from holy grail to so so gill ... as for me, I've heard it several times, including in my Euforia. It would rank as a few of the top premier power tubes in the 6as7 / 6080 range, if not the top. Depending on who you ask, preference can vary. Skylab prefers it to TS 5998. For me, since I'm going to get back my renewed Elise and it will stay here with Euforia, I'm getting GEC 6as7g to complete the important tubes (IMO) in my collection. That doesn't mean I'll use it everyday and every night. All tubes will be cycled through on a fortnightly basis. I like variety.

The picture again and don't sue me for posting it again. I didn't have other drivers at the meet. IMO GEC 6as7g is best paired with other drivers. It should go nicely with Sylvania 6sn7w.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> thank you for the info, ordered two supposedly they come with tea and crumpets as well!



I like the GEC 6080. Certainly better than the Mullard 6080 in tone to me. My ears and gear though. 

I won't do any impressions till I get the GEC 6as7g. Then I'll do it all together, along with TS 5998, Bendix 6080wb, Chatham 6520, Mullard 6080, RCA 6080, Svetlana 6H13C, GE 6AS7GA, TS 7236.


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

I happen to have all the power tubes you list above  (except for the  GEC 6080 ), and would like to add one more to the list that IMHO compares favorably with my top three (GEC 6AS7, Bendix 6080WB and TS5998):

*EL12N  *


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> 
> I happen to have all the power tubes you list above  (except for the  GEC 6080 ), and would like to add one more to the list that IMHO compares favorably with my top three (GEC 6AS7, Bendix 6080WB and TS5998):
> 
> *EL12N  *


And two 6bl7/bx7 for low low $. 

PS I believe you have one GEC 6080.  No?


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 6, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Just don't be surprised if you don't like it better than 6080.



Unlikely. 

I heard it several times remember?

Everything I do is calculated and planned. It took me 2 years before I decide to buy GEC 6as7g and the pair I'm getting is so perfect it's going to be hard to use it. 

Perfect matched pair, gleaming new tubes and pins. Logos like they were just printed. And curved base.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> And two 6bl7/bx7 for low low $.
> 
> PS I believe you have one GEC 6080.  No?


Hii attmci,

You are referring to my single TS5998 that I since acquired a mate for. When you are looking for bargains, patience is a virtue. I am waiting for a real deal on the GEC 6080, but so far no luck. Will keep trying....

Here is something wild that I just thought of (may be cringe-worthy to some):  Since the current draw of the Euforia/Elise is the sum total of  all the tubes, how about a pair of 6BL7 or 6BX7 as drivers with 1.2A power tubes such as the EL12N?  Or the other way around... The total current draw is 5.4 which is well within the capacity of the 7A of the Euforia (or 6.8A of the Elise).

When I muster up enough courage I am going to try it...

And here is another candidate for the uncrowded field of top power tubes: The EL6.
Yes, I know that they are rare, but ATM I am using a pair with a pair of 6SN7GTB as drivers, and the results are excellent.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Unlikely.
> 
> I heard it several times remember?
> 
> ...



Careful. Respect your elders!! I may have to report you to the Arizona Audiophile Association - Out To Pasture Division. But, then again, my DAC only has, at best, 10 to 15% of the resolving capability as yours, so how would I have any idea about any tube I'm talking about!!!!

My pair was also brand, sparkling new with gleaming pins and printing that looked more like delicate engraving - and one of the tubes developed crackling at a fairly young age. Geeee, I certainly hope that doesn't happen to you - after all that calculating, planning and all


----------



## attmci

pctazhp said:


> Careful. Respect your elders!! I may have to report you to the Arizona Audiophile Association - Out To Pasture Division. But, then again, my DAC only has, at best, 10 to 15% of the resolving capability as yours, so how would I have any idea about any tube I'm talking about!!!!
> 
> My pair was also brand, sparkling new with gleaming pins and printing that looked more like delicate engraving - and one of the tubes developed crackling at a fairly young age. Geeee, I certainly hope that doesn't happen to you - after all that calculating, planning and all



LOL.  The GEC 6AS7 g is kind of fragile.  I  have one which only half of the tube works.  Who want it?


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 7, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Careful. Respect your elders!! I may have to report you to the Arizona Audiophile Association - Out To Pasture Division. But, then again, my DAC only has, at best, 10 to 15% of the resolving capability as yours, so how would I have any idea about any tube I'm talking about!!!!
> 
> My pair was also brand, sparkling new with gleaming pins and printing that looked more like delicate engraving - and one of the tubes developed crackling at a fairly young age. Geeee, I certainly hope that doesn't happen to you - after all that calculating, planning and all



Each time you buy tubes, it's a roll of the dice. Tubes can fail for any reasons. When they are 50+ years old, it's a marvel we still try to pursue it. However these tubes must be very well made and robust. There are very few tubes that I had that fail, with only the notable EL12.

The thing is most sellers are reasonable. If it manifest problems within 7 to 14 days, you have cause to take it up with the seller.

All else fails, hang it on the wall.

Also your GEC tubes might be ok. Give it more time to settle down. When swapping between EL12/N (6BL7 included) and conventional power tubes, auto biasing in Euforia is working overtime. That's one reasons I've given up on non recommended tubes.

Edit:- Just read this.... 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-5#post-6246843


----------



## connieflyer

Well UT with all your careful planning inexactitude I'm sure they will be wonderful I just hope you don't drop one!


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm learning to do this with my tubes. Click on it to see how it's done.


----------



## connieflyer

Do you paint all your tubes red?


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Also your GEC tubes might be ok. Give it more time to settle down.



In addition to your planning and calculation skills, you also appear to have magical ability to cure sick tubes. Both GECs are crackle-free this morning. I didn't even have to hang them on the wall, but I did threaten. Maybe that did it.

Are they the best??? I have to wait for you to tell me. That kind of thing is above my pay grade.


----------



## connieflyer

My Gec 6080 tubes are also perfect according to what I'm hoping anyways but if I have a problem since you seem to have the magic touch with crackling Rosie and tubes I will send them to you for repair. Tracking update on Gumby shows not till Saturday now. That should work out well. These are definitely positively the last tubes I'm going to buy for this amp I have a guy large selection of good tubes and they should last me the rest of my life and then some so have fun buying tubes folks I am out of it


----------



## pctazhp

I just realized I can fix any tube. I just have to take it to the vortex in Sedona and chant some ancient stuff which I sure I can find with help of Google. So feel free to send me any tubes you want. Even the good ones can benefit from a day or two in Sedona. On the way back I can also take them to the salt springs north of Phoenix.

I too am officially through buying ANY more tubes. Gumby will be my last audio purchase. Then I'll mount my horse, ride off into the sunset like Shane and another HeadFi member whose name escapes me right now, did.


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## connieflyer

I finally realized that the more tubes that I pursued the more I came to realize that I was looking for more than what the amp would give me. I did that with the Ember amp and the Elise amp and now he Euforia that I am probably doing the same thing that it sounds great and with each different better to combination it sounds better but I keep looking and that bothers me. So these are definitely my last tubes if I find this isn't enough then I'll have to get a different amp and it won't be a tube amp I'll get something that I just have to suck it up listen to it don't like it replace the whole thing.


----------



## UntilThen

I use to think that 5998, 7236, Chatham 6as7g and Mullard 6080 are all the power tubes I need and want. Now having spend a few days with GEC 6080, I find they make a fine addition to the quad. Having heard GEC 6as7g a few times, it belongs to that club except it's uber expensive now.

You're quite right you don't need anymore tubes now. Both of you have the best selections of 6as7 / 6080. I have no remorse with the all the tubes purchase. It's self discovery rather than depending on what's written.

HD800 / T1 will pair better with power tubes that have more texture and layers. HD800S / HD650 will benefit from a leaner, tighter tone. GEC 6080 isn't exactly a leaner tone. Still very textured but just a tad more lean and tight than GEC 6as7g.

Both tubes are astonishingly good sounding tubes, price aside.


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## UntilThen (Jun 7, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Then I'll mount my horse, ride off into the sunset like Shane and another HeadFi member whose name escapes me right now, did.



'Pa got things for you to do and ma wants you...'  and heartless Shane just rode off.

I should have rode off into the sunset then. Now I end up buying Yggy, HD800, GEC 6080, GEC 6as7g all within a month. But you know what? I should have done this in the beginning and rode off like the wind. These has been the best acquisitions. Now to write the bill and send it to you and CF.


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## UntilThen

Still running GEC 6080 with Tung Sol 6sn7gtb black base 1960s listening to Nine Million Bicycles. Love this song and Katie Melua.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I too am officially through buying ANY more tubes. Gumby will be my last audio purchase.



Tubes ticked. DAC ticked. Tube amp ticked. What about this?


----------



## mordy

Dept of Philosophy:

It occurs to me, having bought the Euforia, that since this amp has so much potential for even more increased performance, it demands higher grade ancillary equipment. The Elise, on the other hand, prodded you to look for upgraded tubes for better performance, but did not ignite the upgradeitis to the same degree.

In other words, whereas the Elise sort of encouraged you to look for upgraded performance via different tubes, the Euforia pushes you into buying higher grade associated equipment.

So my question is: Which is the most cost effective way to do this? An Asus sound card? Is an external DAC a necessity with a sound card? Mimby?


----------



## mordy

HI UT,

Just go to the Audio Addiction to compare and see if it is worth the extra couple of thou......

My question is how to balance musical enjoyment with audio perfection.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Here is something wild that I just thought of (may be cringe-worthy to some): Since the current draw of the Euforia/Elise is the sum total of all the tubes, how about a pair of 6BL7 or 6BX7 as drivers with 1.2A power tubes such as the EL12N? Or the other way around... The total current draw is 5.4 which is well within the capacity of the 7A of the Euforia (or 6.8A of the Elise).


Hej @mordy! I've been thinking about this as well! But I don't have the 6B{L,X}7s and they are not common around here.


----------



## pctazhp

I may never be able to leave, but I'm trying to check out of this crazy hotel


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## pctazhp (Jun 7, 2017)

mordy said:


> So my question is: Which is the most cost effective way to do this? An Asus sound card? Is an external DAC a necessity with a sound card? Mimby?



The ASUS sound card is designed with its own DAC and is aimed primarily at people who want to plug their ear buds or headphones directly into the back of their PCs, yet get better SQ than direct from their motherboards. HOWEVER, ASUS is one of the few soundcards that has a by-pass function which completely bypasses USB to a coax SPDIF output jack on the back of the card. This is how I'm using the card, and with excellent results. On my Bimby the improvement over USB is dramatic. On UT's Yiggy which uses a better USB input than any other Schiit DAC it might not offer any improvement - could even be worse I guess.

So the short answer to your question is that ASUS does require a separate DAC for our purposes. Mimby doesn't have an SPDIF input, so you'd have to go at least to the Bimby if you were going to use a Schiit DAC. I really can't say whether that would be the most cost effective upgrade path. It certainly has been for me to date. But, I'd rather try to guess how many millions of Aus Dollars UT is currently holding in his audio slush fund than give a definitive answer to your question!!!!

I certainly agree with you that Euforia stimulates interest in improving other parts of the chain. But I would recommend you take your time, study, listen to people here and try to audition stuff in your home before buying - although I know that is extremely difficult.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Mordy, Addicted To Audio doesn't carry Mimby. Only Bimby Gumby and Yggy plus a range of exotic DACs.

Re the question of the sweet spot for amount spend to musical enjoyment, I'm afraid that will vary from individuals to individuals and budget.

There has been a big fan base on the Mimby. Perhaps try that for a start.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> The ASUS sound card is designed with its own DAC and is aimed primarily at people who want to plug their ear buds or headphones directly into the back of their PCs, yet get better SQ than direct from their motherboards. HOWEVER, ASUS is one of the few soundcards that has a by-pass function which completely bypasses USB to a coax SPDIF output jack on the back of the card. This is how I'm using the card, and with excellent results. On my Bimby the improvement over USB is dramatic. On UT's Yiggy which uses a better USB input than any other Schiit DAC it might not offer any improvement - could even be worse I guess.
> 
> So the short answer to your question is that ASUS does require a separate DAC for our purposes. Mimby doesn't have an SPDIF input, so you'd have to go at least to the Bimby if you were going to use a Schiit DAC. I really can't say whether that would be the most cost effective upgrade path. It certainly has been for me to date. But, I'd rather try to guess how many millions of Aus Dollars UT is currently holding in his audio slush fund than give a definitive answer to your question!!!!
> 
> I certainly agree with you that Euforia stimulates interest in improving other parts of the chain. But I would recommend you take your time, study, listen to people here and try to audition stuff in your home before buying - although I know that is extremely difficult.


Hi pct,

Thanks for your answer. Can you elucidate me about coax cables (and SPDIF) and how you use them? I am only familiar with RCA and USB cables.


----------



## mordy

Hi Oskari,

About goofy tubes - do you have any experience with the 6DN7? It seems to be a 0.9A 6SN7 equivalent and is recommended by JACMusic.

Personally I like the 6BL7 better than the 6BX7. It is still possible to buy them inexpensively, although I lament the demise of 99c eBay stores......


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## pctazhp (Jun 7, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Thanks for your answer. Can you elucidate me about coax cables (and SPDIF) and how you use them? I am only familiar with RCA and USB cables.



I know its confusing and I'll probably mis-educate you more than I'll educate. But I'll try.

Let's start with the picture of the back of the Schiit Yaggrasil or "Yiggy" (the one UT has) I downloaded from the Schiit site:



It shows all of the possible data input methods I know of used by DACs - USB, Optical, Coax,  BNC and AES/EBU

The main input method used by most DACs today is probably USB. Mike Moffat, who designed all of the Schiit DACs has said that USB is the least desirable input. However Yiggy uses Schiit's most advanced USB input (they refer to it as "Gen 3"), and UT reports getting excellent results running USB directly from his PC to Yiggy. The main problem with USB I've heard described is that apparently it was not originally designed for music and has "noise", whatever that means. I experience it as "grung". I saw someone else describe it as a "wooshing" sound.

Optical (Toslink), Coax and BNC all use the same data stream refered to as SPDI/F. Most people seem to believe that Optical is the poorest way to transmit SPDIF data and BNC the best.

Toslink looks like this:https://smile.amazon.com/Black-Squi...496883719&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=toslink&psc=1

Coax SPDIF looks like this: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FMZX4DS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (this is what I currently use) - needs to be 75 ohms

BNC cable: is essentially TV antenna cable and looks like this: https://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-BNC-5...id=1496884024&sr=1-1&keywords=bnc+coax+75+ohm  It also needs to be 75 ohms.

AES/EBU is essentially XLR balanced cable : https://eventhorizon-srv.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/mogami-3080-110ohm-digital-cable-8ft-p-5397.html. This is generally considered the best way to transmit a digital signal.

Different music servers may use any one or more of the above non-USB connections. But my source of music is Tidal HD, so I need to get the data signal from my PC to Bimby. Most PCs don't have any digial out other than USB, or possibly Optical. For me, I use the ASUS board which as I said has a by-pass function. Somehow it takes the digital feed from my PC's Wi-Fi connection, completely by-passes USB and feeds a SPDI/F signal to its coax output, and provides me a much better and cleaner signal than I get from USB.

Many people deal with USB problems by feeding the PC's USB signal to a Digital Domain Converter (DDC) which converts (and presumably cleans up) the USB signal to some form of SPDI/F data transport method allowing use of one or more of that method described above.

Hope this helps a little. Please don't be surprised if I have made some technical goofs.


----------



## UntilThen

Less I be seen as a USB diehard let me clarify. I too agree of all the inputs to Yggy, USB is the least preferred.

However if you are using PC as a source, you are already prepared for compromises in favour of convenience. If pure audiophile is what you seek, use a dedicated CD transport or a quality Music Streamer.

If you have the cash to burn by all means explore how to get the signal from your PC to your DAC in the best possible way.

If using Schiit DAC perhaps wait for their upcoming solution.

In the meantime I'm using CD player to Yggy and for casual listening I am using PC via USB to Yggy. I don't hear any grung or wsoooh and certainly believe in verifying things myself than read a lot into what others say.

The amount of decraipifiers out there is staggering. You could spend as much as $1000 just decrapping.

Believe me, Schiit will have a neat solution.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I don't hear any grung or wsoooh and certainly believe in verifying things myself than read a lot into what others say.



I did verify the "grunge" I hear with Bimby USB for the more than a year I used it before the ASUS card. The "woooshing" sound was simply another term for it that I read someone use in a review of decrapifiers. I've never heard Yiggy USB and didn't comment on it other than to say you had reported experiencing excellent results. I was merely trying to provide Mordy with a little background on different data cables which he had asked me about, and not pushing any kind of an agenda.


----------



## UntilThen

I have something to share here. My Elise had the left channel going almost mute just when Euforia arrived. Elise has only been with me for 1.5 years but albeit heavily used in the sense of normal daily usage. I think I practically use Elise everyday. I don't use fancy Christmas tree setups. However I have used drivers and power tubes that are not in Feliks Audio list of recommended tubes. Tubes such as C3G, ECC31, FDD20 with external power supply, EL3N, EL11, EL12, EL12N, EF80, EF86, 6BL7... the list goes on.

So I send it back to FA and instructed Lukasz to make it new again because I do love Elise very much. Make it new they did. Lukasz told me they changed everything, except the transformer and chassis and brought it to upgraded 2017 Elise current specs. I was curious what cause my Elise to fail from just normal daily usage. So I wrote Lukasz an email, asking him and his dad to tell me what's wrong with my Elise.

This is the reply I got and Lukasz would have no problem that I repeated it here for everyone to see.

_*Hi UT,   * (Well he addressed me by my name. I've just changed it to UT here)
*
On EL11/12, these are completely out of spec in Elise/Euforia. We are a bit puzzled why people consider them "better" than good 6sn7 for example, no clue. Your Elise main circuits were pretty well fried, cannot exclude this was from using other tube types. So probably in most cases the amp will work but it may have impact on length of life and at least technically it shouldnt give any better (rather worse) sonical result.

Regards
Lukasz*_

Even before this reply from Lukasz, I've basically made up my mind since Euforia came that I will not use non recommended tubes anymore. I'm strictly on 6sn7 and 6as7 / 6080 and to me the recommended tubes sounds just glorious. No reasons why they wouldn't be.

It would be folly not to heed the manufacturer's advice and warning.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> About goofy tubes - do you have any experience with the 6DN7?


No, but perhaps not a good idea: the tube has two dissimilar triodes.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Tubes ticked. DAC ticked. Tube amp ticked. What about this?



Nah, UT...*THIS!!!*  :


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Nah, UT...*THIS!!!* :



Agree H1 

The Naim is a very nice gear. Auralic Aries would be interesting too, as it is a music streamer that can address Tidal and your network music storage..... and Roon. Maybe it time to try Roon. 

When I connected the CD player to Yggy, I knew that getting a purer sound extends beyond the DAC. You have to address the source..... 

However H1, after the Naim, try the Utopia and see the smile light up the northern skies. 

As for me, this is where it ends. See my signature... plus a CD player. I shall now change my name from UntilThen to TheEnd.


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## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Agree H1
> 
> The Naim is a very nice gear. Auralic Aries would be interesting too, as it is a music streamer that can address Tidal and your network music storage..... and Roon. Maybe it time to try Roon.
> 
> ...



Aaahh, my good friend...if the Utopias were *half* their price I might just consider them...if not, NO WAY I'm afraid.

I'm *hoping* my own journey will end with the Hugo 2!!...speaking of which, @pctazhp, your sympathy for my delayed delivery plight was most reassuring and welcoming, thanks. But what you _could_ have said is that my dealer says Chord hope to have even the second batch shipped *in the next few weeks!*...but you didn't...and I thought you were omniscient lol!! . So I am now a much happier chappie...(I shall still take your sympathy, however!!! )...CHEERS!


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## HPLobster (Jun 8, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> I know its confusing and I'll probably mis-educate you more than I'll educate. But I'll try.
> 
> Let's start with the picture of the back of the Schiit Yaggrasil or "Yiggy" (the one UT has) I downloaded from the Schiit site:
> 
> ...



Here are my thoughts on this topic:

I own the Chord Mojo basically since Day 1 so since it has USB-, Toslink- and Coax- inputs, you can trust me if I say that I did my research on this very thoroughly 

MOST people by far (and yes, head-fiers are included  ) definitely come to believe that there is absolutely no difference in quality between the three input-variations. That goes for "in practice" and "in theory". Since it´s about digital data, so basically 1´s and 0´s, there shouldn´t be any way it can be affected in its quality during transport. I know a guy working for Microsoft Germany who really knows his stuff, and asked him about digital cables. He confirmed to me that there is no possible way that there could be more than one single quality-criteria that has validity for all of those cables: Either it works or it doesn´t. There is nothing in between and certainly nothing "above" this quality.

Still, mainly amongst audiophiles, many have the conviction that OPTICAL cables are the superior ones, this goes especially for the stereo-sector. Sorry to contradict you on this pct, but simply that is what my experience and reading through probably thousands of posts has shown. The Coaxial/SPDIF-proponents still seem to be a little outnumbered, but they exist of course.

Naturally, when it comes to the Mojo, most users are utilizing the USB-Input, simply because it is the only input out of the three (and this also goes for every other DAC) that is capable of converting sample rates that are higher than 192 kHz and since the Chord Mojo is DSD-capable, you wouldn´t want to loose out on that. This is no important criteria when using a Schiit-DAC since Mike Moffat doesn´t think much of DSD and Hi-Res-Audio and Schiit-DACs do not support those in their original form. Malicious tongues say that it isn´t a coincidence that Moffat is one of very few audio-CEOs to bash USB and then DSD/Hi-Res also....
Many (this includes myself) think that the statement that USB is the "worst" input is based on the fact that it is the most "glitchy" one concerning users that utilize very old, cheap, crappy, total garbage motherboards, so the overall digital conversion is bad from the beginning and the re-clocking/-synchronizing has to fill in and do its job. If everybody would be using optical or coaxial inputs (and outputs for that matter), it would make Schiit´s job much easier, because devices that already have the comparatively rather uncommon ability to output via optical/coaxial can´t be that crappy so to speak. Questyle for example has implemented a rather poor clocking-chip in their recent DAC/Amps, resulting in many buyers actually returning their devices because of occasional "clicking" that occurs.

I personally own a Creative Sound Blaster Z soundcard with optical-out bypassing the motherboards USB-out, but I never have been keen on using this yet. If I do so in future, I´ll be happy to share my findings compared to USB with this group of course 

Just my two cents....


----------



## pctazhp

@HPLobster I would not necessarily disagree with anything you say. My eyes glaze over whenever the discussion about digital turns truly technical in nature. I know for me I experienced a definite improvement when I got the ASUS board. But I never discount the potential of placebo effect, and certainly would not bet my life I could distinguish between my USB and coax connections in a true DBT. My PC is kind of a standard Dell 3 or 4 year old PC, so it may have a crappy motherboard. My USB cable is a relatively new premium, but not particularly expensive, cable. But I really don't know.what's going on.

My comment about optical comes primarily from what most of the audiophiles I knew thought, but that was 25 or 30 years ago.

I know Mike Moffat focuses on Redbook. For whatever reason, I've never had much interest in hi-res files since I sold my Marantz SACD player decades ago.

So one can place their reliance on their ears, reviews, HeadFi posts, numbers and measurements or whatever they want. Whatever works is my motto. Personally, I chose to put my reliance on the Sedona crystals that are hanging over my head when I listen and how many days old the vegetables are in my refrigerator.


----------



## pctazhp

Bottom line for me I guess at this point is that this is a Euforia amp thread. Even though I've been the biggest offender in taking it off topic to DACs, I want to get away from that. I'm sure it turns some people off, and there are plenty of DAC threads here on HeadFi for those who are interested.

Right now, I love my system. My favorite driver is Sylvania 6SN7-WTG. My favorite power tubes are GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G, but I have not listened to some of the other highly regarded power tubes I have in a while, especially since I got Euforia. I'm planning to upgrade to a Gumby and that I hope will be my endgame for a long time. So I doubt I'll have much new to contribute here, but always enjoy the good company


----------



## HPLobster (Jun 8, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> @HPLobster I would not necessarily disagree with anything you say. My eyes glaze over whenever the discussion about digital turns truly technical in nature. I know for me I experienced a definite improvement when I got the ASUS board. But I never discount the potential of placebo effect, and certainly would not bet my life I could distinguish between my USB and coax connections in a true DBT. My PC is kind of a standard Dell 3 or 4 year old PC, so it may have a crappy motherboard. My USB cable is a relatively new premium, but not particularly expensive, cable. But I really don't know.what's going on.
> 
> My comment about optical comes primarily from what most of the audiophiles I knew thought, but that was 25 or 30 years ago.
> 
> ...



ROFL  I love your humour @pctazhp , I really do.....vegetables......

I apologize for taking the off-topic-road here. This thread (and the Elise-thread also for that matter) have clearly derailed some time ago in this regard, I´m not sure why or who is to blame... *cough* <ACHOOtillthen>, bless you! 

Regarding your motherboard, a 3 or 4 year old one surely does not meet the criteria I meant, its technology probably should be almost on par with todays 

Ultimately you are certainly right, whatever works and pleases is always the right approach. Always. Heated debates and bad blood in this respect are as useful as a hole in the head. I upgraded my system with cables although not believing in cable-upgrades and I may be a doctor, but my wife still convinces me to drink rose quartz energized water now and then, so after all I´m the last one to start throwing stones here 
Regarding Hi-Res: Currently I am owning exactly 68 SACDs/DSD-albums, but I nevertheless enjoy listening to Tidal-Masters-files through Gumby>Elise more than to DSD-files through Mojo>Elise...


Alright then, since I do not own the Euforia, I´m going to wrap this post up doing a little tube-small talk:
My favourite power tubes are Mullard 6080 and my favourite drivers probably are Philips Miniwatt EL3N. But since @UntilThen revealed Lukasz´ statement about utilizing EL-tubes with their amps, the Sylvanias you mentioned are number one priority on my shopping list now...
I can hardly wait for @angpsi ´s impressions, since I´m pretty convinced that we share the same taste in sound-signature...


----------



## connieflyer

I will no longer de=rail this thread, I promise, well after this post then. An interesting "How it's made show" on vacuum tube construction.  
and how about this for an audio amp?  Love the tubes!  http://www.kraudio.com/index.php?op...&id=26:kronzilla-sxi&catid=3&Itemid=6&lang=en
One last thing, about the indicator slot on the volume knob, did not want paint, so I took a nail file, just to the edge of the knob, at a 45 degree angle, and carefully filed off the paint, just on the edge of the knob. It is just enough to be able to locate it and makes it a little more noticable to the touch.


----------



## UntilThen

Who is this new member ACHOOtillthen?


----------



## UntilThen

Derail ? Never. This is UntilThen productions. Every story is worth telling including hamsters jokes.


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## UntilThen

Now I shall talk about my ultimate amp.

Ducks..... before the rocks are thrown at me.


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## angpsi (Jun 9, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Bottom line for me I guess at this point is that this is a Euforia amp thread. Even though I've been the biggest offender in taking it off topic to DACs, I want to get away from that. I'm sure it turns some people off, and there are plenty of DAC threads here on HeadFi for those who are interested.
> 
> Right now, I love my system. My favorite driver is Sylvania 6SN7-WTG. My favorite power tubes are GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G, but I have not listened to some of the other highly regarded power tubes I have in a while, especially since I got Euforia. I'm planning to upgrade to a Gumby and that I hope will be my endgame for a long time. So I doubt I'll have much new to contribute here, but always enjoy the good company





HPLobster said:


> (...) Alright then, since I do not own the Euforia, I´m going to wrap this post up doing a little tube-small talk:
> My favourite power tubes are Mullard 6080 and my favourite drivers probably are Philips Miniwatt EL3N. But since @UntilThen revealed Lukasz´ statement about utilizing EL-tubes with their amps, the Sylvanias you mentioned are number one priority on my shopping list now...
> I can hardly wait for @angpsi ´s impressions, since I´m pretty convinced that we share the same taste in sound-signature...


Hi guys! Before I bring in the juice, I'd like to say that I don't consider all the talk about DACs etc as derailing the thread at all—in fact, I consider it quite the opposite! Technically speaking, both the Elise thread and the Euforia thread are about developing _general_ impressions regarding the use of two beautiful pieces of amps, including their peripherals. Quoting @pctazhp on page 1 of the Elise thread,


pctazhp said:


> I’m trying this new Elise thread as an experiment to see if there are those interested in a basic Elise thread. Of course, I can’t dictate the rules for this or any thread and would not presume to try. But I am suggesting the following guidelines for those who might be interested in this type of thread:
> 
> This is intended as a thread for those who are primarily interested in the 1-tube-per-socket (with or without single-tube adapters) approach to the Elise – for both current owners of the magnificent Feliks Audio Elise and those who are considering a purchase.
> Discussion of different tube combinations we have tried or are considering is encouraged, but discussion of external power and multi-tube adapters is discouraged.
> ...



At the same time, it was @hypnos1 who was the first one to admit that upgrading the audio chain was a far more significant improvement over any sort of tube rolling (and actually, it was he who started all the DAC frenzy after attending the Milton Keynes head-Fi meet)!

Personally I have always felt, as @UntilThen has already mentioned, that the question at hand is about _synergy._ Not all DACs may work wonders with the sound signature of FA, but could potentially be a beautiful thing with other amps. On the other hand, one great addition in an audio chain containing our beloved Feliks Audio amps may bring benefits worthy enough to share with our comrades in the pursuit of audio bliss! Therefore I find all discussion about such issues as extremely pertinent to enjoying either the Elise or the Euforia.

Having made my position clear, the wgt are indeed "the moon, the stars, and the sun"! Refined and neutral, yet very gutsy and rendering everything with authority; these tubes can actually move air on my HD600! This is _the first time_ I can admit a clear edge over the Psvane, and actually _see what all the fuss about NOS tubes is about_! This is also the first time I witnessed the HD600 scale to the point that I feel there may be need to upgrade them! (Plus, omg the head clamp! But that's a different story...)

@HPLobster if you're online as I post this don't even wait for my impressions, just go out and get them before they go away!

Disclaimer: these are of course early impressions but if they sound so good out of the box, I honestly wouldn't expect them to deteriorate over the days to come! Just to add some context, these days I've been marvelling on how wonderful my new pair of Etymotic HF3 sound on the Meridian Explorer2—true details galore... This even made me question the quality of the sound I was receiving out of the Elise / HD600 setup; obviously very good, but I had indeed found some details missing, or rather being somewhat set less pronounced in a dark background (e.g. in my beloved Paul's Boutique by Beastie Boys). Well, thank God for the WGTs, the details are back in a wide and airy soundscape, rendered with such punchy bass that I caught myself crazy tapping my foot as I listened (wasn't this UT's mark of excellence?). These tubes can also obviously do great jazz—e.g. JVC's "Boss Tenor" by Gene Ammons—but as I write these lines, Solti's Beethoven 9th (DECCA, 1987) is blowing my mind with detail, volume, and decay!

I will move the rest of this report plus pics over to the Elise thread. After all, as the newer generation of Elise owners, we do have to keep the flame burning!


----------



## angpsi

Oh, and another thing: won these on an auction! Guess it was fate that brought us together... Only mine will come with camembert and Merlot (or Pinot noir)!


----------



## angpsi

Finally, reading after your DAC research I came up with this exotic contraption! Not that I have $5000 to burn, but just FYI, and in the spirit of thoughtfully derailing the thread... 






Looks like the golden bars in second row are the real thing (i.e. MSB ladder DACs)! The following image is taken from the DAC's HeadMania review.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Oh, and another thing: won these on an auction! Guess it was fate that brought us together... Only mine will come with camembert and Merlot (or Pinot noir)!



Congrats on the gec 6080. I don't toe tap like Mordy does. I do this when listening to the gec. It's been in Euforia for 4 days straight.


----------



## angpsi

FYI, same guy who sold me these is also selling one (1) Bendix 6080wb open cross column plate. Used to own a Bottlehead Crack, now selling off his tubes inventory after migrating to other ventures.


----------



## UntilThen

Here's some eye candy for you. My setup has too much clarity now. There is such a thing as too much clarity. 

I need to dull it a little. So I pop in the stock Tung Sol from Elise. 

Bingo !  Sounds great on my system.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> FYI, same guy who sold me these is also selling one (1) Bendix 6080wb open cross column plate. Used to own a Bottlehead Crack, now selling off his tubes inventory after migrating to other ventures.



Oh come on. Euro 120 for a used Bendix 6080wb? That's $178 aussie dollars for a single tube. That's highway robbery.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Here's some eye candy for you. My setup has too much clarity now. There is such a thing as too much clarity.
> 
> I need to dull it a little. So I pop in the stock Tung Sol from Elise.
> 
> Bingo !  Sounds great on my system.


Haha!! Great! Back to basics then, right? Can't get over how the Euforia looks like a tiny baby against the Yggy! I think you should get a rack!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Oh come on. Euro 120 for a used Bendix 6080wb? That's $178 aussie dollars for a single tube. That's highway robbery.


I think they are going for way more if they ever show up?


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Haha!! Great! Back to basics then, right? Can't get over how the Euforia looks like a tiny baby against the Yggy! I think you should get a rack!



I like to think of it as Beauty and the Beast.


----------



## angpsi

angpsi said:


> I think they are going for way more if they ever show up?


Can't complain about the price I got the GEC for though...


----------



## UntilThen

Just got a message that my NOS pair of Gec 6as7g has shipped. Too much excitement happening in a few days... weeks.

Do you think there's any danger to too much excitement? 

Ps... congrats on the good price you paid for the GEC 6080. I got mine for $160 per pair.


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> I will no longer de=rail this thread, I promise, well after this post then. An interesting "How it's made show" on vacuum tube construction.
> and how about this for an audio amp?  Love the tubes!  http://www.kraudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26:kronzilla-sxi&catid=3&Itemid=6&lang=en
> One last thing, about the indicator slot on the volume knob, did not want paint, so I took a nail file, just to the edge of the knob, at a 45 degree angle, and carefully filed off the paint, just on the edge of the knob. It is just enough to be able to locate it and makes it a little more noticable to the touch.



Hi @connieflyer, forgot to say thanks for an excellent education on tubes. Honestly, there's nothing like good visuals to make all the diagrams take form in my mind!


----------



## angpsi (Jun 9, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Just got a message that my NOS pair of Gec 6as7g has shipped. Too much excitement happening in a few days... weeks.
> 
> Do you think there's any danger to too much excitement?
> 
> Ps... congrats on the good price you paid for the GEC 6080. I got mine for $160 per pair.


Excellent price! "Buy it now" options make this tube out of the question right now... But you paid the Langrex price for the 6as7g, right?


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> But you paid the Langrex price for the 6as7g, right?



Nope


----------



## angpsi (Jun 9, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Nope


Good for you then!  EDIT: You gotta teach us how to get those bargain basement prices as well! "Art of the Deal" my a$$, you should be writing this one!


----------



## UntilThen

Nothing to stop you from buying the gec 6as7g too. All you have to do is design another leaning tower of Pisa and you will collect the gec and more.


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Quoting @pctazhp on page 1 of the Elise thread,



The real pctazhp who wrote those guidelines has been resting quietly in a sanitarium for some time now. I think he had already seriously deteriorated when he wrote those guidelines, but we just didn't realize it. I've taken over for him, but his quick recovery and return is sadly not expected. I can say that I sure love the system he assembled before taking leave of his senses. I pretty much listen to it 24/7.


----------



## angpsi (Jun 9, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> The real pctazhp who wrote those guidelines has been resting quietly in a sanitarium for some time now. I think he had already seriously deteriorated when he wrote those guidelines, but we just didn't realize it. I've taken over for him, but his quick recovery and return is sadly not expected. I can say that I sure love the system he assembled before taking leave of his senses. I pretty much listen to it 24/7.


Hi pct, somehow I missed that you own an HD600s!

EDIT: meant an 800s! Unless someone its keen to invent the 600s—oh wait, that's supposed to be the 650! Well, I'll settle for an HD600mk2 where the 'death grip' issue is finally addressed...


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Hi pct, somehow I missed that you own an HD600s!



I also missed that fact, but I'll start looking around to see if the tooth fairy left one for me last night.


----------



## pctazhp

OK guys. I'm out of here for a couple of days. For now, I present this picture of perfection:


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Hi pct, somehow I missed that you own an HD600s!
> 
> EDIT: meant an 800s! Unless someone its keen to invent the 600s—oh wait, that's supposed to be the 650! Well, I'll settle for an HD600mk2 where the 'death grip' issue is finally addressed...



When my HD650 was new, it had the death grip too. Each night I left it clip on the box it came in. After 2 months it loosen up. Now it's one of the most comfortable headphone I've used. The most comfortable being the HD800.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Just got a message that my NOS pair of Gec 6as7g has shipped. Too much excitement happening in a few days... weeks.
> 
> Do you think there's any danger to too much excitement?
> 
> Ps... congrats on the good price you paid for the GEC 6080. I got mine for $160 per pair.



I don't recall that you have tried a pair of WE 421A coupled with TS BGRP. Way to go! LOL


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I don't recall that you have tried a pair of WE 421A coupled with TS BGRP. Way to go! LOL



Nah, I'll leave that for you to try. Too rich for my wallet.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Nah, I'll leave that for you to try. Too rich for my wallet.



If you like 5998, you should give it a try. I like it.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 9, 2017)

attmci said:


> If you like 5998, you should give it a try. I like it.



Nah TS 5998 is good enough to my ears. WE 421A is hardly seen and NOS ones cost more than a mid price tube amp. Used ones are just too risky for a high price.

As I said, GEC 6as7g is the last of the power tubes I'll buy. I'm still open on 6sn7.

Swapping between GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080wb, I find the Bendix really appealing. It's all about system synergy. Both Yggy and HD800 are very revealing and I find myself reaching for tubes with a meatier and more textured presentation.


----------



## UntilThen

This WE421A is bidding at $100 but I ain't bidding for one. What good would one do for me. Using it in the DV 336se is a crime. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-421a-/122536364255?hash=item1c87bc88df:g:W3gAAOSwR29ZN1~H


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 9, 2017)

See this NOS 5996 pair selling at $489. I got mine NOS brand shining new for $239. Tube price just go up and up. It's a rare commodity now. The good ones that is.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5998-MATCHE...958231?hash=item46531a8757:g:X4UAAOSw65FXsDQz

Ha, old guy radiola ! Why would I be surprised at the price.


----------



## UntilThen

Still so new after at least 100 hours usage. I use the 5998 more sparingly than the Bendix 6080wb.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> This WE421A is bidding at $100 but I ain't bidding for one. What good would one do for me. Using it in the DV 336se is a crime.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-421a-/122536364255?hash=item1c87bc88df:g:W3gAAOSwR29ZN1~H



I always love *Vintage Tubes. But, the 70s bottom double halo getter 421A sounds great with TS BGRP round top getter 6SN7GT.*


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Nah TS 5998 is good enough to my ears. WE 421A is hardly seen and NOS ones cost more than a mid price tube amp. Used ones are just too risky for a high price.
> 
> As I said, GEC 6as7g is the last of the power tubes I'll buy. I'm still open on 6sn7.
> 
> Swapping between GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080wb, I find the Bendix really appealing. It's all about system synergy. Both Yggy and HD800 are very revealing and I find myself reaching for tubes with a meatier and more textured presentation.



These are all great tubes.

I see you online all the time. What's your timezone? LOL


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 9, 2017)

Sydney Australia. 1:52pm on a lazy Sat afternoon where the skies are cloudy and rain clouds looming over head..... and the music is great. Dang, this setup is rocking my boat.

Keith Don't Go..... please don't go !

I ain't buying any more expensive 6sn7 and 6as7 because one day I'm going to get a 2A3 tube amp that looks blue.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I see you online all the time.



That's because I'm keeping an eye on you. 

Now I shall write my novel....

It's call 'A man and his improbable journey into head-fi'.

Chapter 1
April 2015, I bought my 1st head-fi gear - Aune T1 a dac/amp with a tube. I was intrigued that it has a small tube. Reminds me when I was young and my dad had a receiver with tubes. The Aune T1 purchase taught me not every purchase is a bliss. When the amp came, I quickly unpack it and was eager to try it. Pop in the tube and pop in the cage and flick the switch behind to power on. Except nothing happen.... the switch wouldn't move !!!! They had given me an Aune T1 with a dummy switch that is cemented. I contacted the seller and send it back and they express post another unit to me, faster than lightning. Guess what? Same problem !!! I swore that was it - I'm done with head-fi before I had even begun. As history would have it, I continue on to this day..... big mistake. 

Chapter 2 .... to be continued.

If you like this, please subscribed and send donations to UntilThen.Bank.Com


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> OK guys. I'm out of here for a couple of days. For now, I present this picture of perfection:




It's not perfect. You need to center the GEC sticker.


----------



## connieflyer

Here you go UT, you know you want one.  It is also my next amp. If anything happens with Euforia, I will sell off the tubes and go ss.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-ragnarok-230v.851646/


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## UntilThen (Jun 10, 2017)

No the timeframe is next year to order the blue tube amp. With a returning Elise, I'm not getting any new amp this year. I'm afraid the Rag is no longer in my sight. 

Have an incoming new pair of gec 6as7g remember?


----------



## UntilThen

Got to be happy with both Euforia and Elise. It is hum free and I mean hum free. Totally silent. Go check out other OTL thread and you will hear them say that soft hum is inherent in their amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Anyhoo, I've found my pile of audiophile CDs. I've going to have an enjoyable night.


----------



## UntilThen

I found an old favourite. This is what I like about this hobby. Nostalgic songs. Takes me back to a time when I was young....  I mean when Simon and Garfunkel were young.


----------



## UntilThen

Found this double CD and listen to it completely. Music is so emotionally moving and connecting now. There is no price for such experience.


----------



## pctazhp

The following are strictly my own personal thoughts and are questions that sometimes go through my mind. Over on one of the "science" threads I got into trouble because I said I think that people who argue that all expensive DACs and amps are a waste of money are both dogmatic and "unscientific" because they usually offer such opinions without ever presenting any valid proof or support. On the other hand, I do sometimes wonder what more and more money actual buys.

So if a Euforia owner does buy a more expensive tube amp I'll be curious to hear what flaws they think exist in Euforia that can be cured with a more expensive tube amp. And if someone wants a solid state amp, why not buy this one, which fully assembled costs $1,250. What could a more expensive solid state amp do that one can't?  Just some random thoughts for a Saturday night.


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## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

If you don't hear better gear, you won't miss anything. That's what I always say. On the same token, if I had stuck with O2+ODAC, which was my 2nd purchase, I would have been happy with it driving my HD650. Then the Dark Voice 336se came on the scene and thus began my love affair with tube amps. Then Elise, then La Figaro 339, then Euforia.

On headphones, I've gone from Beyer DT880 Pro to HD650, T1 and HD800. Is it better with each purchase. To my ears definitely.

If none of us have the motivation to upgrade, the industry will be stagnated and we wouldn't have gotten Euforia. I too have often told those with Elise, that they are perfectly alright to remain with that amp. They could be happy there and not move on. Nothing wrong with those who want to upgrade or those who wish to stay where they are. It's all up to individuals.

2 months ago, none of us would even thought of upgrading our DACs. 2 months ago, I didn't even think about getting both GECs. Did I enjoy the GEC 6080? You bet !

I am usually not for SS amps but Ragnorak does sound very good on the ears, even with HD800.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> On the other hand, I do sometimes wonder what more and more money actual buys.



Up to a certain point, it will buy diminishing returns and further burrow into the rabbits hole.


----------



## UntilThen

In the local forum thread here, quite a few say that they don't like how Yggy sound but I and a 'few' on Head-Fi here likes it. So it's all subjective. Some like some dislike and they go about their own purchase. Everyone's happy and the industry grows and more and more start up companies appear.


----------



## UntilThen

2 months ago, I wouldn't have thought of clearing my bookshelf to make way for my life time CD collections. Now they sit there in double rows. Each shelf has double rows of CDs. Best not to count how much I've spend on CDs. Now where to put those vinyls.....


----------



## pctazhp

I understand the urge to upgrade and don't in any way stand in judgment. I've been though it far to many times myself to criticize any one for that. My questions are just practical or theoretical in nature. Maybe I should phrase it in another way. If someone does buy another amp after owning a Euforia, it will be interesting to learn what improvements they think the new amp has over Euforia.

Candidly, when I look at all the money I've spent to get where I am today I sometimes think maybe I should have just bought a Yiggy and a Rag amp and been done when it. I'm pretty sure I'd be money ahead. But that's water under the bridge and I'm very happy with my current system. And certainly would not promise the upgrade bug, including a new amp, will never strike me again. I've actually had these kind of questions since I first got into audio, and never have really come up with an answer that satisfies me.


----------



## UntilThen

I would go one step backwards and say that I would have been happy with NAD d1050 > Elise > T1. I used to call this the mountain top experience.  What I didn't know was if I had lifted my head, Mt Everest is actually the next mountain. Now Yggy > Euforia > HD800 is the real Everest. I was only on Mt Kinabalu previously. 

Truth is Pct, you ought to be happy with what you have now. There shouldn't be a need to upgrade. A lot of retirees here. There are other pursuits after retirement. Like ACTUALLY climbing Mt Everest.

But why do you have to mention Yggy and Ragnorak? I really like that combo with HD800. Very articulate and precise, natural and without fatigue. This is the 1st time I've said that of an SS amp. Even the Violectric 281 didn't impress me.


----------



## UntilThen

You know audio is a hobby that is very addictive. I was smitten in a small way when I bought my Home Theatre back in 1998. Deliberated then whether to get a reasonable stereo system or a Home Theatre where the family can also enjoy. Then I spend 5 years working in the capital and travel 300 kms weekly, each way to get home just to spend the weekend. That was when I caught the car stereo bug and decided to make my driving more interesting, to outdo the police car that drives next to me. Entered my 1st comp and won the 'Rookies' trophy and that suck me into car stereo even more. Ended up doing 2 cars with upgraded stereos. Then I got interested in racing bicycles, except I don't know how to install an expensive stereo system on the bike and not go faster than Armstrong.

Now I'm at the crossroad of Head-Fi, at a time of my life when the kids have grown up and are working. I can finally get more than an ipod and earbud to listen to Faye Wong. Our spent is very moderate. Some buy the Chord Dave and DNA Stellaris without batting an eyelid.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> If someone does buy another amp after owning a Euforia, it will be interesting to learn what improvements they think the new amp has over Euforia.



That's exactly what those guys with Elise are asking of us Euforia owners. Now you see my point?


----------



## UntilThen

Make no mistake. There will always be better, not necessarily tied to price. The thing is knowing when to stop and say yes this is good enough for me, not for Peter, Paul or Mary - but for ME.


----------



## UntilThen

Aw this is such nice music, I didn't know I had the CD.... 

This is good afternoon siesta music.


----------



## angpsi

To add to the conversation, I myself have experienced very familiar issues when I was building up my speakers chain. If you recall my very early postings, my first pair was an ATC SCM12 which I had found at an 'affordable' price by audiophile standards. The ATCs were great, but they had this uncanny ability to scale according to the rest of the audio chain. When I was looking for an amp, at one time I even thought they were broken because they were playing so crappy! And another time I found them playing incredibly well attached to an amp that cost five times their price... Thus I ended up going for the one integrated amp ATC was offering, first because I expected to have system synergy by going in-house and second because the amp was getting more than decent reviews (albeit it wasn't as famous as ATC's speakers line). Oddly, I ended up paying €3500 to match my €750 speakers! On the recommendation of a renowned audio dealer here in Athens I also got a Micromega CD player for €1300, and some audio cables cheap enough not to break my wallet.

From that point, hanging out with the audiophile crowd spurred a series of upgrades: the Benchmark DAC never found its way back to the dealer once I tested it; I found my way to a dealer working with Van Den Hul and WBT to get decent cables; my eye caught my second–hand Krell MD20 sitting on a bench and getting it was merely a matter of establishing some more knowledge about its pedigree; and, finally, once I auditioned my pair of ATC SCM20sl I realised how much I was missing from my ATC SCM12s. Last buy I made was substituting my original Cello speakers cables for the Kimber 8TC which oddly gave me a warmer, meatier sound—so much for 'snake oil' accusations in regards to cables' impact on sound.

Thankfully I had reached the summit of the ATC bookshelf line by acquiring an acknowledged classic —from that point I'd have to move into SCM50 territory which was frankly beyond my financial capabilities at the time, plus the 20s were quite suitable for my listening room in terms of their performance but also aesthetics. In the process I had spent enough money to buy an entry level car, and I hadn't even managed to sell my previous gear to compensate. Was I rewarded for my troubles? Sure, and I can recall one or two occasions that I admitted to myself that the money I spent on the system were probably the most well–spent money I'd spent on impractical investments (the other, at the time, would be clothes). Could I have gotten better? Some say sure, the main culprit being the ATC integrated; again, the speakers are expected to scale exponentially...

At the moment I'm experiencing the same with my HD600. I got Elise in the first place to make sure I gained as much TOTL synergy as my wallet could afford. I ended up spending the same amount just to get an education on tubes. I started off with a HiFiMe DIY Sabre 9018 USB DAC which is even smaller than the words I typed to name it, then moved to my Meridian Explorer 2 only to get the itch to explore further. At this point I'm already three times ahead my original spending budget. Did I upgrade? Yes. Did I need to upgrade? Definitely! The knowledge I acquired every time I upgraded allowed me to appreciate the subtle differences that make _all the difference_ in how I enjoyed my music through the HD600. Will I ever stop? Considering my experience with my speakers system, it all depends on achieving a satisfactory synergy which will not make me feel I need more. At least not compared to allocating my (inexistent) spending funds to other endeavors! Is there a better sound to achieve after that point. Common sense and research says definitely! Same as I've been lusting over a Verity audio / Lamm systems I once heard many years ago, I'll probably lust after a TOTL line of Head-fi setup once I hear it. But I feel that the key is to be able to recognize when you've achieved a level when the itch goes away. IMO this is what distinguishes audiophiles from fetischists: the latter will always hear the gear; the former might have a good chance to recognize a moment of synergy.

On a final note, as an architect I found there's one certainty in the design process: clients will always defend their choices, even if they are arguably the crappiest ones! Once you spend money on an 'informed decision' it's brutally hard to admit you were wrong; instead it has been most often the case people try to lure in others to follow them into these choices, quite possibly to settle their own doubts! I promise you, it's incredibly difficult to support an opposing position once a client decides to spend their money one way or another...


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Once you spend money on an 'informed decision' it's brutally hard to admit you were wrong



Sadly I'm about to prove you wrong. 

Hearing how vinyl my system with Yggy sounds now, I'm naturally intrigued at how real vinyl sounds.... even a budget Denon Dp300F with stock cartridge.

So I plug in good ole spinner, put on my fav Dire Straits Alchemy double LP, straight direct into Euforia, listening with HD800.

O M G   ...... humble Denon sounded more vinyl than my $3500 Yggy !!! Anyone who listens to this and don't think the Denon sound more vinyl than the Yggy, I'll eat either one of your choice.




Now where's the for sale section... I am going to put Yggy, CD player and all the nicely lined up CDs for sale and buy me one of those sexy turntable and many more LPs.

@HPLobster  come here !!! Important announcement.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

Vinyl sounds very natural, it massages your ears, gives your ears a good cleaning, soothes your soul and lowers your cholesterol.

Serious, HD800 sounds sublime with vinyl and a tube amp. No DAC will beat it.

Now I agree with Michael Fremer 100%.

Watch this again.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Sadly I'm about to prove you wrong.
> 
> Hearing how vinyl my system with Yggy sounds now, I'm naturally intrigued at how real vinyl sounds.... even a budget Denon Dp300F with stock cartridge.
> 
> ...


I see your point. Hope you have enough room, your end system looks it's gonna end up looking like this:


----------



## UntilThen

Apsi, go vinyl and never look back. It's how music is meant to be listened - live. Natural and organic. Never mind how the better dacs are more revealing. At the end of day, it's how your ears like it. 

Even this budget Denon with stock cartridge (it has preamp build in) sounds so good with Euforia and HD800. Hardly any pop and crackles. My LPs are very clean and so is the surrounds.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> I see your point. Hope you have enough room, your end system looks it's gonna end up looking like this:



Can you design that for me. I'll send Australian Treasury the bill.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

To be fair, Yggy comes close to sounding vinyl but the Denon did it without even trying hard - it is vinyl !!!

....and price difference?  $3500 vs $550.

Get a better turntable and cartridge and it will be even more mind blowing.

There's a big 'but' here. Convenience, pitch blackness and ultra resolution. That Yggy wins with hands tight behind it's back.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

For comparison, this Linn Sondek LP12 cost a lot less than my Yggy. 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/124198-fs-linn-lp12/

The trick is to have both a turntable and a DAC.


----------



## HPLobster

UntilThen said:


> @HPLobster  come here !!! Important announcement.




Nice! After reading through 30 posts of yours and the history of your car stereo, NOW you decide to put in a bookmark for me  

I´m just teasing....UT you should start your own blog, I would read it...


----------



## UntilThen

Damm 30 posts since morning? I hope what I wrote makes sense..... now to reread what I wrote.


----------



## HPLobster (Jun 11, 2017)

Now back on topic (DACs, amps, vinyl ´n´ stuff):

I know that the Ragnarok is Schiit´s current flagship and that it would look formidable next to your Yggy of course.....but have you ever actually considered the Mjolnir 2?

I bought it primarily for my Audeze because it has power galore (8W !....eeeeight thouuuusand milliwatt !) , driving every thirsty orthodynamic headphone in existence and making them show their full potential. And it also is fully balanced of course....But the best thing and my chief argument for you is: It´s a hybrid amp. The Ragnarok is not. The Rag is solid state only. The Mjolnir CAN be solid state, the LISST-"tubes" do a perfect job with that. But you could always go on with your tube-amp-love-affair and bring in some supreme Telefunken E88CCs, or some engaging Amperex PQ 6922s, or -who knows- maybe even the  prestigious Siemens CCa or the famous ´75 Reflektor 6N23P silver shields and make your HD800 sing......in _balanced _mode, I shall underline...
Sure, you have the Euforia already for tube-rolling, and honestly, I don´t even CARE for combining the HD800 with the Mjolnir 2 right now, since it sounds so marvellous with my Elise.... but IF you really must complement your gear with a solid state amp, the Mjo 2 would be a great(/the better?) choice, don´t you think? ....just saying...


Actually the only thing that´s holding me back to finally purchase those fine Sylvanias from Langrex, @angpsi et al. have already convinced me of, is that I haven´t decided which Mullard E88CCs I want to include in the order for my Mjolnir 
Edit: they have like 7 or 8 different ones over at Langrex


----------



## UntilThen

Ok Lobster you're a man after my own heart. We seem to connect in some ways, although I'm no German.

If you had followed my earlier ramblings before I got Yggy, I was talking day and night about Gumby.... and I also fantasied about pairing it with Mjolnir 2. Yeah it's attributes as you have listed, is very nice ! As a desktop pair it is more suitable than King Kong and Shrek. Even my L shaped office desk space is chewed up now.... and I don't even have room now to reinstate the iMac 27".

Yup Gumby and Mjolnir2 will drive HE6 with ease. King Kong and Shrek? That will do speakers and surround sound and more.... VMax?

There might be a chance for Mjolnir 2 or Ragnorak. Depends on what I want to do with Elise 2. 

However seriously I have so many things to play with now... including the incoming gec 6as7g pair... anymore means I'll be awake 24/7 and my wife will snap me out of my dreams and back to reality.

I joined Head-Fi on the 16th Jun 2015 - I think I am really going too fast. Time to sloooooooooow down.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> For comparison, this Linn Sondek LP12 cost a lot less than my Yggy.
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/124198-fs-linn-lp12/
> 
> The trick is to have both a turntable and a DAC.


Damn you hit a sweet spot! If I were to have a record player this would be it, in fact I was researching it couple of months ago when I drifted to a "what if" route!... But then, I'd also be looking for a good phono stage, some room on my desk, and... oh, yes I have to buy some vinyls! At least I got my father's Keith Jarrett The Koln Concert to start with!


----------



## UntilThen

Alright, human memory is pretty short lived. Mine especially. Now switching back to PC > Yggy > Euforia > HD800, it has the organic tones of vinyl, textured as can be, bass kick ass more than vinyl, and resolution to put high definition to shame.

Ok.. Yggy's purchase is justified. It's performing like a ring leader, leading a bunch of copy cats. Man if you are debating on a DAC, just buy Yggy. Disclaimer - I have no shares in Schiit and at 61, I'm hardly a fan boy. I scrutinised everything I buy and they will get an honest John opinion - ruthlessly.


----------



## angpsi

Who's quick enough??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linn-Sondek...irkus-Majik-Excellent-Condition-/252969317802
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linn-Sondek...-Mono-Pivot-Retro-Vinyl-Vintage-/122532816634


----------



## UntilThen

This Rega P9 might be better and more reliable than the Linn.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/124339-rega-rp9-with-ortofon-jubilee/

However, as the Yggy rig starts to sing again now, all my Sunday afternoon ramblings has to be taken with a big dose of salt.


----------



## myphone

UT, It is funny that I have gone opposite direction. 

I have thousands of classical music LPs and a really nice sounding analog system (Sota cosmos turntable, SME V, and cartridges (benz Ruby, Grado statement, spectral), Atma-sphere pre-amp (audio-research PH#). Quad Electrostatic. Yes,  analogy is much natural and better sounding.

Sitting in comfy chair listening to music with dimmed light at night was highlight of hardworking days.

Nowadays, computer audio is much more convenient, especially box-set of classical music is very cheap (compared to $ 15- 20 a disc in good old day).

I do most of my listening with headphones while working on computer, or reading online blogs.


----------



## myphone

Most LPs were bought at used book stores for less than a dollar. Good old days. LOL.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

Huh @myphone  I've often wondered why you have only 47 posts when you joined Head-Fi since 2001. You must be a man of few words.

Mind you I have enjoyed your 'few' posts since you came here, so kudos to you. Pardon my tongue in cheek comment but you're a good addition to our fold. Otherwise it would only be Pct, Cf, apsi, H1 or Lobster or Oskari when he does wakes up, who will answer me.

Well, I'm not unnecessarily different from you. I'm always a computer person. I've worked in IT all my life, since I left the army national service, where I witness a chubby guy who couldn't march. His left hand and left leg would come out together, likewise his right hand and right leg would extend together. To this day, I still cannot understand why he has such a gift but not according to the drill sergeant. His face red with rage, he would yelled, 'Didn't your mum teach you how to walk??? !!!!!! '

Ok where was I? Ah, I am a PC and Mac guy. I would compromise and use these as source. Of course if someone would to donate a Micro Seiki turntable to me, I'd gladly give up my PC life. Life as a PC... 'Hello World', 'Where do you want to go today?' Remember these Microsoft global image advertising slogans?

Times have changed. In the old days, after work, the way to relax after meal is to put on a carefully selected LP, drop the stylus, walk back to the armchair with a glass of red and just enjoy.

These days, after meal, it's grab a Heineken or Vodka or whatever poison you can grab, sit on your executive leather swivel chair, pick a pair of tubes, plonk then in your tube amp sockets and flick the switch. Open up Tidal browsers, zoom in on the song you want to hear. 10 secs later, on cue, select a different song before even Elvis can do his pelvis thrust. Such convenience now and with a system that is much quieter and more revealing than your vinyl playback. But it is not as organic. the '1's and '0's are fed on synthetic food. Vinyl is fed on farm fresh, corn fed pure grain.

Anyhoo, take your pick. Vinyl is making a come back and digital is saying 'get lost'. Everyone wants a market share, including the live singers.

Enjoy


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> UT, It is funny that I have gone opposite direction.
> 
> I have thousands of classical music LPs and a really nice sounding analog system (Sota cosmos turntable, SME V, and cartridges (benz Ruby, Grado statement, spectral), Atma-sphere pre-amp (audio-research PH#). Quad Electrostatic. Yes, analogy is much natural and better sounding.



See this is tragic. This is a step in the wrong direction. Go back to your past. It's quality music then.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Otherwise it would only be Pct, Cf, apsi, H1 or Lobster or Oskari when he does wakes up, who will answer me.


It's 5pm, I've had a pot of coffee, and I'm mostly awake. Go ahead, ask something. Otherwise I might ramble about the Red Arrows (etc.) I saw on Friday night.


----------



## Oskari

There were Hawks, Gripens, Super Hornets, and Fouga Magisters; a Draken, Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, Super Puma,  NH90, DC-3, A350, and others; beautiful weather and about 100.000 spectators. It was a glorious day.


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## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

100,000 spectators on a glorious day with planes doing stunts must be exciting. What caught my attention is the sexy leg. Problem is with me staying in my study all the time listening to music, is that I will miss all the Autumn scenery.

Heh, what Autumn. Just realised that it's Winter now.


----------



## pctazhp

I've read everything and agree with everything. As for me, I Did It My Way, and the women went crazy


----------



## pctazhp

Friend of mine has offered to give me a box of vinyl. Hmmmm do I see a Pro-ject Turntable in my future????  I guess I could consolidate the 23 paperclip holders on my desk down to 1 and make room for it.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_252DB...99277&awdv=c&awkw=unknown&awmt=e&awnw=o&awat=


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## UntilThen

I wrote more than JK Rowling did. I'm surprised you agree with everything but then this is UntilThen's Production. The story comes on thick and fast.

Tom Jones is entertaining me with Spanish Harlem.


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## pctazhp

I'm a people-pleaser I want everyone to like me - even you  I'm listening to Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie. Dropped in my Bendix 6080 this morning to see if you know what you're talking about with respect to 6080s. I'll let you know if I decide


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm a people-pleaser I want everyone to like me - even you  I'm listening to Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie. Dropped in my Bendix 6080 this morning to see if you know what you're talking about with respect to 6080s. I'll let you know if I decide



That's a new album by Lindsey and Christie I've been meaning to check out. 

It won't surprised me if you prefer GEC 6080 over Bendix 6080wb. We're listening with HD800S vs HD800. There's much difference there.


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## UntilThen

Singers sound interesting when they aged. I prefer Leonard Cohen in his latter years than this.,, or Roger Waters in the Wall


----------



## pctazhp

BTW. just found Neil Young's Harvest on Tidal Masters. Pretty cool))) Don't know if it sounds digital or vinyl. It sounds just like I think it should sound - wonderful!!!!

Plug for Euforia: As most I'm sure know, F-A has link to Headfonics review of Espressivo-E, where they named it Headphone Amp of the Year. Don't know much about Headfonics, but their reviews seem pretty reasonable, and I'm sure they have listened to many different amps. We Euforia owners are 2 levels above Espressivo. I think we own a very special amp.

I agree that evaluation of tubes will probably be different with HD800 and HD800S.


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## angpsi

Double–posting, but I think you guys need to cheer up!


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## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

Lovers of OTL tube amp sound will love Euforia. However at the local meet, the owner of www.minidisc.com.au here in Sydney sat down to listen to his Focal Utopia with my Euforia running Psvane 6sn7 and GEC 6as7g. His comments after was that it sounded too warm and lush. I guess for someone who have been used to listening to the Focal Utopia straight from the Hugo TT, that would be the reaction.

So depends on who you ask. Some just prefers a more clinical, precised tone. Me? I'll take the tube amp sound and a scoop of ice-cream.

hahaha... meant to post this on Euforia's thread. You confused me @angpsi !!!

Oh.... this IS Euforia's thread. You confused me again @angpsi  !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Double–posting, but I think you guys need to cheer up!



Double posting could land you in Alcatraz with no chance of parole and all you get is a 1920s radio that crackles more than it sings.


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## UntilThen

@angpsi  I look at your avatar and I keep thinking of that classic movie.


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Double posting could land you in Alcatraz with no chance of parole and all you get is a 1920s radio that crackles more than it sings.


As long as there might be a chance to sport an uber rare GEC or Telefunken set so I can pay for the rest of my tubes collection!


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> @angpsi  I look at your avatar and I keep thinking of that classic movie.


You might as well try to stray from listening and watch it! Great track in the end of the movie!


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## UntilThen

With a choice of Tidal, vinyl or CDs, I'm finding it hard to decide what to use. Do you have this problem?

Lesson here is never give a music lover too many medium. Besides selecting the tubes to use, he has to decide on the medium to use !!!


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> You might as well try to stray from listening and watch it! Great track in the end of the movie!



Alright, tell me the movie title again. It slip my mind.


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## angpsi (Jun 11, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Alright, tell me the movie title again. It slip my mind.


It's "The Breakfast Club"; track in the end is "Don't you (forget about me)" by Simple Heads. One of the classics of my teen youth by the great Johnn Huges.

#EDIT: "Simple Minds". The hour is late, but UT is vigilant (see below)!


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> With a choice of Tidal, vinyl or CDs, I'm finding it hard to decide what to use. Do you have this problem?
> 
> Lesson here is never give a music lover too many medium. Besides selecting the tubes to use, he has to decide on the medium to use !!!


You do realize that a couple of posts ago you described a perfectly mellow listening experience just spinning vinyl? The 'convenience' of playing files out of the computer ultimately came down to a perfect case of OCD!


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## UntilThen

Everyday I come here to get my black coffee. Today I get my black coffee with a LOT of sugar. I just come here to complain.

Don't ever give anyone too much sugar !!!


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## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> You do realize that a couple of posts ago you described a perfectly mellow listening experience just spinning vinyl? The 'convenience' of playing files out of the computer ultimately came down to a perfect case of OCD!



You mean Elvis and his thrust? You ain't getting that out of the computer. Only vinyl will give you that experience. On PC, it's simulated. On vinyl, it's real. I mean Elvis pelvic thrust.


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## angpsi

Classic! - Dirty Harry I mean.


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## angpsi (Jun 11, 2017)

Signing off, getting back to my wife who I still love and cherish. I have to turn off the Elise first.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> It's "The Breakfast Club"; track in the end is "Don't you (forget about me)" by Simple Heads. One of the classics of my teen youth by the great Johnn Huges.



Please !!! It's Simple Minds not Simple Heads. Shakes heads. Palm head. I give up head.


----------



## UntilThen

Bye world, my bed beckons. It's 5am !!!

I'm checking into rehab and giving you the DJ's job, Pct. See you in 6 months time.


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## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Please !!! It's Simple Minds not Simple Heads. Shakes heads. Palm head. I give up head.



Hah! See? I told you I had to sign off!...

Last question: any difference between TS JAN-5998 black plate green print and TS JAN-5998 black plate grey print?


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## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> 100,000 spectators on a glorious day with planes doing stunts must be exciting. What caught my attention is the sexy leg.


"," or ".", but who's counting... I don't think she was there.


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## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Hah! See? I told you I had to sign off!...
> 
> Last question: any difference between TS JAN-5998 black plate green print and TS JAN-5998 black plate grey print?



I'm quite certain grey is best. Mine is grey and I would never have bought an inferior version.


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Bye world, my bed beckons. It's 5am !!!
> 
> I'm checking into rehab and giving you the DJ's job, Pct. See you in 6 months time.



Sorry. Have to decline the job. It would just further overload rehab centers. You will already present a formidable challenge.

So now I guess:


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> I'm quite certain grey is best. Mine is grey and I would never have bought an inferior version.


Seriously now, is it a different vintage? @Oskari what do you say?


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## Oskari

angpsi said:


> Seriously now, is it a different vintage? @Oskari what do you say?


I say that the color of the paint doesn't matter as such but the vintages I do not know.

I probably would be happy with a matching pair of any color/construction. And even that might not be too critical.


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## pctazhp

Green is prettier. Grey better color coordinated with Euforia.


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## pctazhp

It's been so long since I've thought about or used my TS5998s, I'd forgotten about the 6 craters in each plate. Maybe they unlock secrets of the universe like this one where I was at on Friday: http://meteorcrater.com/

I'll have to pop them in for their maiden voyage with my Euforia.


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## UntilThen

Hello world, let me answer that question on green grey 5998 because I have both.

2 of green and 1 of grey. So I have to test it out on DarkVoice 336se. Let me tell you they sound the same despite the grey being from the 50s and the green from the 60s.

My NOS pair of green came from Ho Chi Minh city. Seller told me it's from the US military warehouse when they evacuated quickly after the fall of Saigon. It's a piece of history. I have to preserve this pair of tubes.

The grey single was from the carefully concealed gold train found in Poland. Again I need to preserve this.


----------



## Oskari

_The Cardigans: Erase/Rewind “Director's Cut”_


----------



## UntilThen

UT's setup. All 3 source connected and selectable by the push of a button on my Wonder Box.

Vinyl, CD, Flacs ..... life's good.


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## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> "," or ".", but who's counting... I don't think she was there.




This is unreal. Much better than my Yggy.


----------



## myphone

angpsi said:


> Hah! See? I told you I had to sign off!...
> 
> Last question: any difference between TS JAN-5998 black plate green print and TS JAN-5998 black plate grey print?


Angpsi, do your green label 5998 tubes have date code on base. I look at my 5998 collection (5 pairs). only 1960 tubes have yellow label, the rest have white label.


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## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

These are my green ones. Year 66 48 (week) and 68 42 (week) I think. White one just say JAN (military) 722.

I'm using my Bendix 6080wb and GEC 6080 more. 5998 is a bit more excited in my setup. Still ok when I want some real action. Likewise 7236.


----------



## myphone




----------



## myphone

I believe the 1958 clear top has all the characteristics of 421a tube, double bottom D-ring, spiral wire.


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## UntilThen

Ah you've some Tung Sol / Chatham branding there. Nice collection.


----------



## UntilThen

Any other juicy tubes?


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## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Ah you've some Tung Sol / Chatham branding there. Nice collection.


Thanks, all match pairs, bought years ago from tubeworld.com. An expensive but reliable seller. They were inexpensive then by today's standard. Also have some 5998A tubes. Not as good sounding as 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

I believe the green ones were issued to the US military during the Vietnam war. Just speculating of course.


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## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

myphone said:


> Thanks, all match pairs, bought years ago from tubeworld.com. An expensive but reliable seller. They were inexpensive then by today's standard. Also have some 5998A tubes. Not as good sounding as 5998.



If you bought your tubes a long time ago, then you've done well. All the good power tubes now are very 'special' price.

For example my 'jewels' collection:-

Per pair price...

Mullard 6080 (used but new looking) - AUD$75.
Chatham 6520 (used but in great condition) - AUD$100.
Chatham 6as7g (from Skylab - NOS but traded for a pair of Valvo C3Gs with another member here - kind of regret) - US$60 <------- this was a fantastic deal from Skylab - the tubes are so new as is the lettering.
Cetron (Tung Sol) 7236 NOS - US$120.
Tung Sol 5998 (NOS green - brand new) - US$239
GEC 6080 ( NOS with original boxes) - US$160
Bendix 6080wb - bought a NOS one for US$95 ; the other one 'what's his name?' kind of gave me when I gave him my Lorenz C3G pair plus adapters.
GEC 6as7g (NOS with original boxes curved base, 99.99999% readings) - I won't tell you price.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Any other juicy tubes?


 

Three types of 6080WB.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Any other juicy tubes?


 

Small white boxes are Tung-sol 7236. Amperex 5998A is rebranded GE 5998A.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Three types of 6080WB.



No wonder you bought Euforia. Very extensive collection.

What is the tube on the right. Is it a 6080wb? Doesn't seem to have graphite plates like those 2 in the middle. .... and what's the one with the green lettering?


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> If you bought your tubes a long time ago, then you've done well. All the good power tubes now are very 'special' price.
> 
> For example my 'jewels' collection:-
> 
> ...



Don't have GEC 6AS7g tubes. Do have 400 Russian and Chinese 6AS7 tubes for Atma-Sphere amplifiers. Current amps use 16 6AS7 tubes. Hope to get larger amps (MA1s that use 28 6AS& tubes per pair).


----------



## pctazhp

I don't want to feel left out


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Don't have GEC 6AS7g tubes. Do have 400 Russian and Chinese 6AS7 tubes for Atma-Sphere amplifiers. Current amps use 16 6AS7 tubes. Hope to get larger amps (MA1s that use 28 6AS& tubes per pair).



Good lord. Are you a seller?  Were you the one who show us a picture of your Atma-Sphere? I don't think it's you as that person uses it to burn in the tubes.

Show a picture of your Atma-Sphere please.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I don't want to feel left out



Oh yeah you can show your collection too. You have enough to start a tube museum.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> No wonder you bought Euforia. Very extensive collection.
> 
> What is the tube on the right. Is it a 6080wb? Doesn't seem to have graphite plates like those 2 in the middle. .... and what's the one with the green lettering?



Yes, it is 6080WB, different column structure from either solid or slot column ones. Wonder if it is bendix/raytheon 6080wb.

The green one: re-branded Mullard 6080 (white code AJ1 R4A).


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Good lord. Are you a seller?  Were you the one who show us a picture of your Atma-Sphere? I don't think it's you as that person uses it to burn in the tubes.
> 
> Show a picture of your Atma-Sphere please.


It was me that burn the tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Yes, it is 6080WB, different column structure from either solid or slot column ones. Wonder if it is bendix/raytheon 6080wb.



Ok that's not the coveted one. Only the graphite solid or slotted ones are the price tubes. Great tubes. Along with the Gec 6as7g, they are the best constructed and most solid looking tubes. Just feeling it in your hands, you can tell this is a no nonsense tube.... and when you listen to it.... Star Wars begins.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> It was me that burn the tubes.



Doh is me. Dementia is setting in.


----------



## UntilThen

With Elise returning and Euforia taking centre stage, I think my tubes purchase are justified.

Only problem is I have bucket loads of non recommended tubes.

Including this Buckingham Palace Fivre 6N7G brown base drivers.


----------



## pctazhp

Bendix 6080 Slotted


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> Good lord. Are you a seller?  Were you the one who show us a picture of your Atma-Sphere? I don't think it's you as that person uses it to burn in the tubes.
> 
> Show a picture of your Atma-Sphere please.



 

No. I am not a seller. My children have already reserved my tubes. 

They used to go to Saturday Hamfest digging tubes with me. At age 4 and 6, they already knew to search for priced European 6DJ8/6922/7038. Priced USA 6SN7/5692.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Bendix 6080 Slotted



Now you're in the esteemed club.


----------



## pctazhp

myphone said:


> No. I am not a seller. My children have already reserved my tubes.
> 
> They used to go to Saturday Hamfest digging tubes with me. At age 4 and 6, they already knew to search for priced European 6DJ8/6922/7038. Priced USA 6SN7/5692.



Beautiful system. Don't ever let it go. I had Ralph Karsten's first momoblocks. Can't remember how many tubes were in each, but it seemed like hundreds.)))


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

myphone said:


> No. I am not a seller. My children have already reserved my tubes.
> 
> They used to go to Saturday Hamfest digging tubes with me. At age 4 and 6, they already knew to search for priced European 6DJ8/6922/7038. Priced USA 6SN7/5692.



I was joking. I never thought you were a seller. Your children learn good tubes at an early age and they will inherit good ones too.

That Sota Cosmos TT .... I didn't know a new tube version one cost $8000. http://www.sotaturntables.com/newprod.htm

What speaker is that?


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Friend of mine has offered to give me a box of vinyl. Hmmmm do I see a Pro-ject Turntable in my future????  I guess I could consolidate the 23 paperclip holders on my desk down to 1 and make room for it.
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_252DB...99277&awdv=c&awkw=unknown&awmt=e&awnw=o&awat=



Vinyl does sound very good with Euforia and HD800. Not too late to jump on the bandwagon and you really don't need too many LPs. You can pick up used good condition ones for as little as $1 !!!

That Project Debut Carbon should be sufficient. I still love my Denon DP300F with stock cartridge but was tempted with these

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/124409-fs-ortofon-2m-blue-cartridge/

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/124412-fs-at440mlb-cartridge/

Looks like there are buyers already. Oh well... I will buy new.... when I finally decide what cartridge to get.

Spinning Yanni now. Vinyl is so soothing on the ears. Who says HD800 is clinical. This is flowing with juices.


----------



## myphone

UT, I could nor afford a new one.

 Bought used as a package from demo at low days of analog 20 years ago: Sota Cosmos+SME V+Spectral MCR signature for less than half of price of any of the component. 

Have enjoyed LPs over the years and will continue to play.

Headphone listening with Euforia has similar listening pleasure.


----------



## UntilThen

Wow great turntable and phono preamp for $2350. Ok I have to stop looking..... because what I have is good enough for me! Remember my motto?
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...motion-package-and-ps-audio-gcph-phono-stage/

I've been going back and forth on all 3 source, Vinyl, CD and Flac....

I've got to tell you I'm a very happy man right now. This is it folks. Any inclinations to upgrade is gone. Euforia is sounding sweet. Elise is incoming. GEC 6as7g is incoming. 

THIS IS IT.


----------



## myphone

pctazhp said:


> Beautiful system. Don't ever let it go. I had Ralph Karsten's first momoblocks. Can't remember how many tubes were in each, but it seemed like hundreds.)))



Thank you, pctazhp. Yep, Ralph is the one who got me into OTL tubes. My M60s were built from kits.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 11, 2017)

myphone said:


> Have enjoyed LPs over the years and will continue to play.
> 
> Headphone listening with Euforia has similar listening pleasure.



I share the same sentiments. I have a pair of Axis LS88 classic floor standers in the lounge, with accompanying Axis LS28 bookshelf speakers on stands, aided by Definitive Technology 12" active sub woofer. These are HiFi components but I bought it and use them for Home Theatre duties.  I have to recone the LS88 midrange. Have already got in touch with the original Australian designer of the speakers.

The thing is I love listening on headphones now and HD800 is the best thing that has sat on my head.... bar the Utopia. I'm loving every minute of my listening session.


----------



## myphone

UT, the speakers are Quad 989, electrostatic speakers built in 2000.


----------



## HPLobster (Jun 12, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Hah! See? I told you I had to sign off!...
> 
> Last question: any difference between TS JAN-5998 black plate green print and TS JAN-5998 black plate grey print?




I just bought the green ones, sorry @angpsi .... ´
I´ve been waiting for a reputable seller to offer them at a reasonable price for a loooong time now....


----------



## HPLobster

ah, I just realized that they have another pair in stock....


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

The green ones will light up Hamburg.

I'm glad you guys are investing in the better power tubes. Elise and Euforia deserves the better power tubes.


----------



## pctazhp

In light of the discussion on upgrading we have been having, I want to quote the following from the Schiit Happened thread. I've been involved in audio as a consumer since the early 70s, and I have seldom read something that made me really stop and think as this:



OldRoadToad said:


> Over the past 6 decades of my listening to music reproduced in the comfort of home, I have heard that what I should be seeking and striving for is the have it sound as though the artist was "there".
> 
> I do not want them "there". I want to enjoy my self and not obsess. When some thing becomes an obsession we lose the joy that once was. Critical listening is quite often ridiculous. This is what a great many audio "journalists"do for a living: listen critically. In the process these people become so OCD jaded that it is a wonder any one can stand to be around them. We all know who they are. Smug. Self centered and disgustingly so. The audio tailors for the Emperors New Ears. Many of them are audio typists. They can not write worth beans but can type up a storm of foo foo words to describe what they perceive with their ears of gold.


----------



## pctazhp

Good night all. Hope everyone had a great weekend. As we used to say often on the Elise thread, we are the Lucky Ones


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

With a good system, you will hear it without analysing. If you have to strain hard to get euphony, then it's not for you.

OldRoadToad is having a go at pro reviewers. It's his prerogatives but not all pro reviewers are bad. For that matter, not all layman's reviews are good or all layman's reviews are bad. If all pro reviewers are taken away tomorrow, then you have no reviews to read except mine..... which would be a tragedy.

By that same reasoning, a person who has the Aune T1 can also say, 'I don't need to obsess, I'll just enjoy this little DAC/AMP with my DT880 and care not what the obsessive compulsive disorder audiopoo thinks.' Good on him then.

Of course you want the artists there with you. That's just an expression of equating to a live performance. He is saying he doesn't want them 'there' but rather enjoy 'himself'. Are you kidding me? That's like saying I rather hear myself singing in the shower.

Believe me, audio enthusiasts do not obsess. Audiophiles obsess. Audio enthusiasts just love their hobby, just like an orchid lover loves his orchids, a car lover loves his cars, a workaholic loves his work... ok the last is debatable.


----------



## UntilThen

Now for some Ibiza music.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> With a good system, you will hear it without analysing. If you have to strain hard to get euphony, then it's not for you.
> 
> OldRoadToad is having a go at pro reviewers. It's his prerogatives but not all pro reviewers are bad. For that matter, not all layman's reviews are good or all layman's reviews are bad. If all pro reviewers are taken away tomorrow, then you have no reviews to read except mine..... which would be a tragedy.
> 
> ...



Glory I woke up from a nap and couldn't believe I produce this masterpiece. Take a chill pill UT, let OldRoadToad writes what he wants, after all he is an Old Toad. Do not let him shake off your undeniable goal of following BigFatPaulie in buying Chord Dave, DNA Stellaris and Focal Utopia. That would be one system to being there, here and everywhere.

To which I'm reminded of what my sage once told me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

Hence my memory is further jolted and remember that fateful day, when Master Oogway told me that I'm the Chosen One to rule the kingdom. I remember the advice clearly. Don't think about your yesterday's system or the future's system but just enjoy the present system.

Now I need to teach my subjects this precious truth.

So it's tough luck if you're currently stuck with iPod and earbud.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

Gosh I'm listening to the Eagles Greatest Hits on this LP. I have a few other Eagles audiophile copies on CDs, including Hell Freezes Over and I can access Eagles everything on Tidal HiFi but this is the best sounding on my Denon DP300F > Euforia > HD800. The sound is big, it's holographic, it's 3D, it's euphonic and it encourages you to turn up the volume - there is ZERO fatigue. That's the beauty of vinyl.

Strictly I am a very recent vinyl convert. I was never a fan before. I find the medium old, tedious and unless you love the Japanese art of tea making, it's hard to convince the skateboard youth of today's generation to love vinyl. However the sound will win you over, if you're like me able to compare these 3 mediums together.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

While I'm talking up the virtues of Vinyl, Rafael Nadal wins historic 10th French Open title... at 31 years of age .... and he's a vinyl lover.

This is a revelation for me. With a Yggy burn in for 3 weeks, I still find the sound from a budget Denon DP300F with stock cartridge better. YMMV of course.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

I had a look at the bottom of my Euforia. It looks better than this. Maybe this is a pre-production model. Euforia's internals is quite different from Elise. It is more than an upgrade. Looks like a retuned, re-design amp to me. Let me take the conversation back to Euforia. This is now a stunning amp with the best components.

You are right Pct. It would be hard to hear a better OTL amp. The search is over. This is the present. It's a gift. 

Make no mistake, I do not consider Euforia the best tube amp there is. I don't believe in fan boyism. However it is good, more than good enough for most people, including me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

This is the deal of the century. A fellow Aussie was selling one GEC 6as7g ($82 including shipping) and one Chatham 6080wb ($33 including shipping) solid graphite plates on ebay and I snap it.


----------



## myphone

UntilThen said:


> This is the deal of the century. A fellow Aussie was selling one GEC 6as7g ($82 including shipping) and one Chatham 6080wb ($33 including shipping) solid graphite plates on ebay and I snap it.
> 
> Nice catch, UT!


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

Alright all my non recommended tubes are going on a fire sale. Going to get rid of it. Let me know first before I flock it on the local forum or ebay. PM me... don't respond on this thread.

Valvo C3G/s x 2 plus adapters (nearly new with original Valvo boxes)

Buy the ECC31 and 6N7G and you get 2 free adapters
Mullard ECC31 x 2
Fivre 6N7G brown base x 2
Mazda 6N7G x 2
Fivre 6N7G horn x 2 (this is a bit microphonic but usable - buy all the above and you get this pair free)
Buy all the above and you get a pair of Marconi 6N7 for free.

Buy all the 6A6 and you get the 2 adapters free.
National Union 6A6 x 5 (buy 2  get 5 - the mother of all sale)
Visseaux 6A6 x 2
Fivre 6A6 x 2 (real vintage - tubes have the Fivre stamp on the glass)

EL12N x 2 plus adapters
Telefunken EL12 x 2 plus adapters (one tube is a bit microphonic, so you get it free. i.e you pay for one and get both) Any cheaper and I'll have to pay you to take it. 

FDD20 x 4 ( buy 2 get 4 - how good is that?)
EL3N x 10 - (cheap and with original boxes) with 2 double EL3N to 6SN7 adapters - cheap !!!

6BL7gta in almost new condition with boxes x 4 plus 2 double 6BL7 to 6SN7 adapters - going cheap. I don't want this anymore.

there are more ... will list later....

Buy all the above and you get a free Aune T1.


----------



## UntilThen

"If I had no sense of humor, I would long ago have committed suicide"
- Mahatma Gandhi

“I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots"
- Albert Einstein


----------



## pctazhp

As much as I like to fantasize, I know I'll never go back to vinyl. I'm just too old and lazy. Even though I had a high-end table, arm and cartridge, I still remember how many truly bad vinyl records I would encounter, the effort to keep records and cartridge clean, turntable, arm and cartridge properly adjusted, records reasonably cataloged and organized, and all the the inherent technical issues involved with vinyl that can be a bottomless black hole for OCD types like me. But I have to admit it is a little discouraging to think that even one of the world's best DACs maybe can't approach entry level vinyl. 

But I know one thing for sure. I have never enjoyed listening to recorded music more than I do now with my current HeadFi system


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,

I share your sentiments 100% - haven't played my records in years. And I have never had such great musical enjoyment as now with the Euforia and the T1.
A number of years ago I transferred all my CDs to my computer and I don't listen to CDs any more either....

Another thing I find very interesting is that YouTube sounds much better than before with my present equipment.


----------



## aqsw

I concur !!


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> As much as I like to fantasize, I know I'll never go back to vinyl. I'm just too old and lazy. Even though I had a high-end table, arm and cartridge, I still remember how many truly bad vinyl records I would encounter, the effort to keep records and cartridge clean, turntable, arm and cartridge properly adjusted, records reasonably cataloged and organized, and all the the inherent technical issues involved with vinyl that can be a bottomless black hole for OCD types like me. But I have to admit it is a little discouraging to think that even one of the world's best DACs maybe can't approach entry level vinyl.
> 
> But I know one thing for sure. I have never enjoyed listening to recorded music more than I do now with my current HeadFi system



Digital is definitely more convenient.

I am always fascinated by those   who complain about records being "bad" due to the cleanliness of the grooves.  That has now been solved (for the patient) by using wood glue.  Wood glue applied evenly to the record and allowed to dry completely...lifts off, with little effort, and brings all the dirt with it.

The result is a record that plays almost new and certainly looks "new".  That "new" sheen and gloss is restored.

This process will not aid damaged records, but it will bring even "super dirty" records fully back to life.

I have so many vinyls that sound better than any released CD.  Everything about them that you can enumerate..sounds better.  

But also have some records, where the Digital definitely sounds better.

It is all a matter how how much time/care (and money) went into the mastering process.

Think we have been all through this before....a few times, even  

Cheers...

Enjoy your enjoyable listening sessions...that is what it is _all_ about.


----------



## mordy

I have some 1980s RCA interconnect cables 

 

 with the brand name Nagaoka that came from a very high end system . The only thing I was able to find was that this was/is a manufacturer of phono cartridges.

These interconnects are unique in that they have what appears to be a ground wire. The individual wires are 1/4' thick and have gold plated (?) RCA plugs.
Can anybody tell me how to use the extra wire, and if these interconnects are considered good ones?


----------



## UntilThen

Fortunately or unfortunately, the few records that I have are very clean, new and are very well recorded. Even my entry level turntable, cartridge and stylus are new. So the sound is great.

That is not a reflection that Yggy is bad. It is the closet to the vinyl experience I've heard.... and would you believe it, it is still improving.

Convenience is something we've grown used to by now. We can't live without the washing machine, microwave or computer now. How many of you can live without the internet?

However, there are certain vintage stuff we still love and cherish. Like tube amps (or you won't be on this thread  and the spinning vinyl.

Now to tell Siri to pick a song for me from Tidal....


----------



## UntilThen

I've a Monster RCA cable that has that third tail. It's a distraction to me. I try to tuck it away. Really serve no purpose for me.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

mordy said:


> A number of years ago I transferred all my CDs to my computer and I don't listen to CDs any more either....



If you get a multibit DAC, you'll discover that CD is actually great sounding... the way that Sony and Philips intended and that's why they gave you SPDIF - Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format.

There's no way that your rips sounds better than the original CDs... unless you add some spice to the rips in the process of ripping. A CD player is much quieter than a PC with even the most silent fan.

But of course, with a good recording CD and an equally good recording vinyl, I'd still say vinyl sounds better and Michael Fremer will agree with me. YMMV.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> But I know one thing for sure. I have never enjoyed listening to recorded music more than I do now with my current HeadFi system



That's because your current HeadFi system is new and performing perfectly. 10 years from now, when it starts to show the effects of age and wear and tear, then you will give it up just like you gave up on the old aging turntable and old dirty records.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

In the year 2050, we will no longer live by the gear we have today. Robotic musicians will be cheap and working as well as humans by then. You can buy them to create any size symphonies you want and have live music at home and they will play you any song you want, classical, jazz, blues, rock, metal....

Then you will look back and wonder how you could live with the gear that you have today.

If the world survive till 2050, the way events are unfolding now.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> In the year 2050, we will no longer live by the gear we have today. Robotic musicians will be cheap and working as well as humans by then. You can buy them to create any size symphonies you want and have live music at home and they will play you any song you want, classical, jazz, blues, rock, metal....
> 
> Then you will look back and wonder how you could live with the gear that you have today.
> 
> If the world survive till 2050, the way events are unfolding now.


Hi UT,

Don't get rid of them headphones! Here is what an expert said about music reproduction in 2050:

_La Grou thinks that music will be mixed to create full 3D immersion over headphones long before 2050. Microphone and headphone designers and audio software engineers will develop 360-degree sound systems. Speakers play a much smaller role in sound reproduction in La Grou's future gazing. He described headphone sound as "spherical audio," where the listener is inside a sound bubble; spatial resolution within the headphone bubble will match reality, not just for music. He thinks games and films will drive the tech. By 2050 massive gains in processing power and virtual production techniques will provide unparalleled creative opportunities._

Here is the link:

https://www.cnet.com/news/what-will-recorded-music-sound-like-in-2050/


----------



## OldRoadToad

UntilThen said:


> With a good system, you will hear it without analysing. If you have to strain hard to get euphony, then it's not for you.
> 
> . . . Of course you want the artists there with you. That's just an expression of equating to a live performance. He is saying he doesn't want them 'there' but rather enjoy 'himself'. Are you kidding me? That's like saying I rather hear myself singing in the shower.
> 
> Believe me, audio enthusiasts do not obsess. Audiophiles obsess. Audio enthusiasts just love their hobby, just like an orchid lover loves his orchids, a car lover loves his cars, a workaholic loves his work... ok the last is debatable.



No, I really do not want them there with me.  I have been to live performances and while they are nice I more often than not prefer to listen to their recordings, so no I am not kidding you. 

I can not fathom how you would equate your singing in the shower to my words, but oooookaaaay.    And finally, yes.  Audio (and music) enthusiasts do not obsess.  frAudiophies do and then they repeat their subjective idiocy until it becomes rote to their disciples.  You know, nerds.  The kind of nerds that want to hang with the "cool nerds" at the nerd lunch table. Nothing wrong with wanting to "belong" but I would definitely choose another group than people that strain at a digital bit and swallow the snake oil.

I am some what of an Alpha Nerd.  If such a thing exists.  Since I exist, it must follow that Alpha Nerds exist.  Or some thing like that. . .

And I do admire your words even if I disagree with some of your assessment of mine!  Thank you for the smile!

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Mordy, I don't plan on being here in 2050. That's another 33 years time.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 12, 2017)

OldRoadToad said:


> No, I really do not want them there with me.  I have been to live performances and while they are nice I more often than not prefer to listen to their recordings, so no I am not kidding you.
> 
> I can not fathom how you would equate your singing in the shower to my words, but oooookaaaay.    And finally, yes.  Audio (and music) enthusiasts do not obsess.  frAudiophies do and then they repeat their subjective idiocy until it becomes rote to their disciples.  You know, nerds.  The kind of nerds that want to hang with the "cool nerds" at the nerd lunch table. Nothing wrong with wanting to "belong" but I would definitely choose another group than people that strain at a digital bit and swallow the snake oil.
> 
> ...



Hahaha thanks for replying. Usually when I go off on a rant like that which by the way hasn't happen before, assassins would be send my way.

You on the other hand see the humour in my words and thank you for admiring it.

Now that I see your avatar I'm wondering why you chose OldRoadToad for your sign on. You look more a gym instructor.

Anyhoo it's all good and I don't entirely disagree with all you say. There's always different ways to look at things.

Cheers
UT


----------



## OldRoadToad

UntilThen said:


> Hahaha thanks for replying. Usually when I go off on a rant like that which by the way hasn't happen before, assassins would be send my way.
> 
> You on the other hand see the humour in my words and thank you for admiring it.
> 
> ...




You have a pretty good way with words and an excellent sense of humor.  I admire that.

Thank you!

ORT


----------



## aqsw (Jun 13, 2017)

My daughters band.



Check them out, The next song is good too. Sundowners


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> My daughters band.



Listening through both Elise and Euforia. Nice song and great cover photo. 

I see you have Elise for the office and Euforia for the home. These are really great sounding OTL amps. After 2 years after I started using Elise, I'm still captivated by the tone.


----------



## UntilThen

OldRoadToad said:


> You have a pretty good way with words and an excellent sense of humor.  I admire that.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> ORT



Cheers ORT. Stick around if you are looking for an OTL tube amp. This Euforia thread or the Elise thread have genuine farmers who love their music and down to earth good tone, made by a small boutique Polish manufacturer whose line of headphone tube amps have won many fans and highly praised by independent reviewers.


----------



## angpsi

aqsw said:


> My daughters band.
> 
> 
> 
> Check them out, The next song is good too. Sundowners



Cool! I really like it!


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I have some 1980s RCA interconnect cables with the brand name Nagaoka that came from a very high end system. The only thing I was able to find was that this was/is a manufacturer of phono cartridges.


Still is: http://www.nagaoka.co.jp/


mordy said:


> These interconnects are unique in that they have what appears to be a ground wire. The individual wires are 1/4' thick and have gold plated (?) RCA plugs.
> Can anybody tell me how to use the extra wire, and if these interconnects are considered good ones?


The ground wire is for turntables/cartridges.


----------



## OldRoadToad

UntilThen said:


> Cheers ORT. Stick around if you are looking for an OTL tube amp. This Euforia thread or the Elise thread have genuine farmers who love their music and down to earth good tone, made by a small boutique Polish manufacturer whose line of headphone tube amps have won many fans and highly praised by independent reviewers.



I will give both of them a look over.  I have a thing about "looks". If I think they look gorgeous (totally subjective), then I am more apt to give them a trial with the music I enjoy . . If I can afford them.    If I can not, then I will admire (read: Lust) from afar.  

Thank you for the invitation and the recommendations!

ORT


----------



## mordy

Hi UT,

Here are some Telefunken labeled 6SN7WGTA tubes that I would like to get:







Also known as 33S30A - Oskari will explain.

These were made for artillery pieces and are extremely sturdy - has five support rods.

Just missed a pair that sold today - it went for only $974.00 .


----------



## UntilThen

That's more expensive than my da vinci tubes.

I'm considering some hitachi 6sn7 but at this stage every purchase is scrutinized with the question, 'Do I need it?'.

On the other hand, Elise and Euforia has gain my further respect. The tone is grat8.
All I need is buy a silent desktop fan to cool it down for those marathon listening sessions.


----------



## mordy

If $974 is too much for a pair of Swedish Army 6SN7/33S30A tubes, here is another pair that sold for $310 - East German RFT 6SN7 tubes:






These are considered very desirable in Europe. As with all RFT tubes, come under many different names.


----------



## mordy

Just to add to the wish list - make that dream list - here is a pair of GEC B65/6SN7:






The asking price is only $1317, but maybe you can make a lower offer that they will accept.....Makes the GEC 6SN7/A1834 look like a bargain.....


----------



## connieflyer

Well, that would be one way to lose weight, no food in the budget for a month or so!


----------



## aqsw

UntilThen said:


> Cheers ORT. Stick around if you are looking for an OTL tube amp. This Euforia thread or the Elise thread have genuine farmers who love their music and down to earth good tone, made by a small boutique Polish manufacturer whose line of headphone tube amps have won many fans and highly praised by independent reviewers.


Thanks Ut and angspi,

The Fuji xpro-1 does take great pics if you know how to use it. I'm still learning


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Also known as 33S30A - Oskari will explain.


Ok. Swedish _Standard_ tubes made for artillery computers at a huge cost for the sake of self-sufficiency. (Didn't last long.)


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> East German RFT 6SN7 tubes:


I have not heard those tubes, but the word is that the sonics might not be as special as the construction.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> I have not heard those tubes, but the word is that the sonics might not be as special as the construction.



I have the 6H8C tubes from Russia with love. There's a lot of talk about it being coarse and grainy in tone but I didn't find it particularly so. In fact I find the bass strong and engaging. Might try it again tonight.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,

I am back, and good grief 208 pages to go through on Euforia!

I shoot an email to Feliks Audio, and I was surprised to see the price tag has almost doubled from what I paid for Elise.

I have a few questions before I make up my mind for this upgrade, now that some of you have already compared Elise with Euforia. What do you think is different from Elise? It will take another year for tube rolling to find best tubes for Euforia. I already have the best tubes that played well in Elise. PSVane is something new.

Lukasz says, they have developed a 3D sound, which I really love. And that they have removed all silver wirings which kind of had harshness in sound.

Lastly, I would like to apologize to any forum member if I offended during Elise era. Especially, UntilThen who had terminated all comms with me. I hope you guys will forgive me and accept me into the Euforia league if I get lucky to acquire one 

Lastly, I have moved into the studio monitors thing. Elise is feeding into my entry level monitors, which are just for the desktop purpose. Headphones are still there on my desktop for critical listening.

Enjoy Euforia. Which I am sure, is one step above Utopia.

PS I am new to head-fi website layout, I am kind of hating it.

Best Regards
LR


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 15, 2017)

Hey Raven !!!!! Where have you been ?????

Hey mate no apologies needed. If anything the apologies is from me. I got carried away and believe if I could undo anything, that would be what I would undo.

Anyhoo that's forgotten and let's move forward. Difference between Elise and Euforia is the name 

Alright kidding. I just got my Renewed Elise back from Poland and in 3 weeks time I'll published my essay on what I think is the real difference between those 2 amps.

.... and stay this time. Don't go away again. 

And did you see the mother of all dacs that I got?

And a hd800 and a zillion more tubes

And I have given up non recommended tubes....


----------



## pctazhp

Hi @Lord Raven. Great to see you back and good to see you and UT have made nice with each other. I still remember when he informed us you look like a movie star 

His anticipated 6-volume treatise comparing Elise and Euforia will certainly the definitive work on the subject and well worth waiting for.  I had not seen Lukasz' comment about Euforia until you reported it. I will say that the thing that struck me most shortly after I got Euforia was its sense of dimensionality or holographic quality. As for tubes, I have personally found that the tubes which I liked best with Elise are the same for Euforia. And like UT, I too am sticking with approved tube types in Euforia.

Please don't disappear again


----------



## UntilThen

I'm actually Charles Dickens and I will rewrite 'A Tale of 2 Tube Amps', a tragic tale that begins with Dickens' famous opening sentence....

_It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only._
_
..._because the tale is so sombre, I'll have to inject some humour into it.


----------



## connieflyer

Well my General Electric Company 6080's did not get here today, so the wait continues.  Can anyone tell me why these and the 6AS7's from this company are considered so much better than other manufacturers? What makes these tubes so expensive, other than the hype? Maybe @Oskari knows.


----------



## Oskari

Supply and demand. They sound pretty good.


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you for that, hope they sound good enough to keep.


----------



## connieflyer

Well I know I said I was done with tube buying, but could not pass up a pair of 1948 Rca Jan grey glass nos and a pair of Sylvania Jan VT-231 nos from Langrex. That should do it now I have the Ken-Rad vt 231's so should be good to go.


----------



## connieflyer

Running stock tubes today and they do sound pretty good, the PSVanes do a creditable job, mid's are very clear and engaging, bass is good, not KR level but good. Sound stage is pretty fair. Resolution with HDTracks are a nice blend I can see why FA chose these. Listening to Linda Ronstadt's album What's New and these tubes put up a good sound.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well my General Electric Company 6080's did not get here today, so the wait continues.  Can anyone tell me why these and the 6AS7's from this company are considered so much better than other manufacturers? What makes these tubes so expensive, other than the hype? Maybe @Oskari knows.



GEC means Get Ecstasy Coming. It's a proven formula. Now you know why they are in demand.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well I know I said I was done with tube buying, but could not pass up a pair of 1948 Rca Jan grey glass nos and a pair of Sylvania Jan VT-231 nos from Langrex. That should do it now I have the Ken-Rad vt 231's so should be good to go.



RCA 6sn7gt vt231 smoke glass and Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231 are the perfect tubes to use with an analytical system. I've not love my RCAs till now, after getting Yggy and HD800.... even with modified HD650.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well my General Electric Company 6080's did not get here today, so the wait continues.  Can anyone tell me why these and the 6AS7's from this company are considered so much better than other manufacturers? What makes these tubes so expensive, other than the hype? Maybe @Oskari knows.



Please ignore the bad answers you are getting to this question. Wait until you get the 6080s and see how cool the GEC labels look. Then you will understand the tubes' value.


----------



## connieflyer

If I had only known that is was the art work, I would have saved all the old cereal boxes!


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Matt,

Glad to hear from you. I was on a vacation to Pakistan, there I got involved in the realm of Flash photography. When I came back I got a full studio lighting setup which keeps me occupied. Flash, reflectors, umbrellas, remote triggers. I am telling you, this stuff is intriguing.

Thank you, no need to apologize, you are twice my age and experience and I still respect you. I always felt bad ever since I left. I am so happy to be back with you guys. I almost quit head-fi, that's when I went out and bought desktop speakers.

Awesome, I cannot wait to read your reviews; like all your previous reviews helped me make up my mind. You have excellent audio memory. I was in Melbourne museum, there they had an experiment to test your auditory memory, I badly failed in it  Maybe I am tone deaf, I don't even know what a tone deaf person is but they played different pitched tones.

Question: What is a renewed Elise?

I confess I went to your profile couple of times. I knew about your DAC and your headphones  I think you left me light years behind in head-fi universe.

Yes, I am here to stay. Head-fi is one of those things I cannot live without, and you guys are like family to me.

LR
X



UntilThen said:


> Hey Raven !!!!! Where have you been ?????
> 
> Hey mate no apologies needed. If anything the apologies is from me. I got carried away and believe if I could undo anything, that would be what I would undo.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Raven (Jun 17, 2017)

Hey @pctazhp  Thank you, we really had a great time together LOL All this time, I was thinking to delete all the pictures we took, just like high school girls would do. And I remember the camel reference that you made about me, it was funny, we cannot live without camels out here 

Looks like I am doing the right study, Euforia is holographic! I have to tell you this, Elise feeding signal into my studio monitors is indulging, I love it.

A friend of mine is in Poland, chilling with his GF. I asked him to bring Yamaha HS5 for me, he might bring them in. I am moving up the Studio monitors ladder. I could have totally asked him to bring Euforia for me, but then again, I did not do my study well.

I have tubes to last both in Elise and Euforia  Huge stock!



pctazhp said:


> Hi @Lord Raven. Great to see you back and good to see you and UT have made nice with each other. I still remember when he informed us you look like a movie star
> 
> His anticipated 6-volume treatise comparing Elise and Euforia will certainly the definitive work on the subject and well worth waiting for.  I had not seen Lukasz' comment about Euforia until you reported it. I will say that the thing that struck me most shortly after I got Euforia was its sense of dimensionality or holographic quality. As for tubes, I have personally found that the tubes which I liked best with Elise are the same for Euforia. And like UT, I too am sticking with approved tube types in Euforia.
> 
> Please don't disappear again


----------



## UntilThen

Lord Raven said:


> Question: What is a renewed Elise?



A renewed Elise is basically a new Elise with all internals, including sockets replaced, saved for the transformer and chassis. Lukasz also told me it's upgraded to current 2017 Elise specs as you would see on their website.

So I've basically a new Euforia and a new Elise with me.

If you scroll back far enough, you would see my ecstatic posts about the the Yggy and HD800 that I bought one fine Sat morning at Addicted To Audio. No man, I don't see my system as light years ahead of yours. It's not a contest or a show but it is first and foremost for my personal enjoyment. It's what I like most at this point in my life. I just love listening to music on a headfi system.

When I bought Yggy, I was also very keen on Schiit's Ragnorak amp. It is both headphone balanced amp as well as a speaker amp. Many have used it to drive KEF LS50 and are enjoying it.

What studio monitors do you have?

Btw, Yggdrasil is simply sensational ...... and there's no hype here.  I don't really care if I'm accused of hype here because quite simply Yggy changes my system and elevated it to a level I would never imagined possible. The micro details are intoxicating. So is the chest thumping bass and a soundstage that is nigh perfect. It even take Euforia's clarity and purism up another level. Finally HD800 just bring it all together to make it my end game system. I'm done with upgrade because I know that to better what I hear now, would involve silly money.

I'll do a comprehensive review of Elise vs Euforia in a few weeks time.... when I have listened to both very thoroughly and after Elise is fully burn in.


----------



## UntilThen

Also from zero Gec 6as7g, I've 3 incoming now plus a NOS NIB pair of Gec 6080. All of a sudden I've GECs coming out of my ears and my money out of my wallet, faster than the speed of light.

Have been listening to the Gec 6080 for about 2 weeks now. Got them for $160 per pair from the seller in New Zealand. It is indeed very good. Love it as much as the Bendix 6080wb but with a different flavour.

The NOS NIB Gec 6as7g that I've coming is the best example of a prime, new as can be pair of Gec 6as7g I've seen. The data specs is near perfect. I've also bought a used Gec 6as7g for $80. Now maybe I'll find another used one and hang the NOS pair on the wall.


----------



## UntilThen

Elise is about 16 hours in from 1st power on. Unless further burn in can transform her quite dramatically, I'd have to say that the difference with Euforia is quite noticeable. Euforia is several steps up in euphony. It is a more saturated, textured and holographic tone. There is more meat and fat to the bones. There's a fluidity to Euforia that makes it sound very natural and pleasing on the ears. Heck, it tames the HD800 and makes it sounds soothing on the ears. 

If I didn't listen to Euforia, Elise sounds very, very good. However once you listen to both, Elise does sound leaner and not as juicy a steak as Euforia. Soundstage is perceptibly wider, higher and deeper on Euforia and bass is stronger too. On a good recording, that's where you hear the more startling difference. Euforia just has that much more micro details. You're able to pin point where instruments sound emanates from more precisely with Euforia than Elise. Not a whole lot more but enough to make the difference.

These are my initial ramblings. Not posting this on Elise thread. Lest I cast Dante's sorrow on them.


----------



## pctazhp

Tnanks UT for your update. It saves me the trouble of putting Elise back in my system to make sure I did the right thing)))  My system is running at a legendary level. Something kicked in the about a day ago and angels in heaven are singing 

I really love Sylvania 6SN7-WGT.brown base drivers. Just ordered a back-up pair for $40. When mated with GEC6AS7G, the passion is so intense I fully expect them to start giving birth to baby tubes


----------



## UntilThen

Yeah I agree with Lukasz assessment that Euforia is a few leagues above Elise but I like to emphasised that Elise is a very lovely sounding OTL amp. I have no intention of putting it away.

In fact, I'll alternate the 2 amps on a long listening sessions. 2 to 3 hours on each.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I really love Sylvania 6SN7-WGT.brown base drivers. Just ordered a back-up pair for $40. When mated with GEC6AS7G, the passion is so intense I fully expect them to start giving birth to baby tubes



I agree those would be a lovely combination but if you're going to make babies, why not get this driver, as suggested by @whirlwind . Paired with the Gec 6as7g, they will be wunderkid. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Matched-...rconi-UK-Valve-Tubes-/112435062433?rmvSB=true


----------



## connieflyer

Pctazhp, you go ahead and get those and then send them on to me to test, for 6 or 8 months. Where did you buy the Sylvania 6SN7-WGT for that price, nice find.


----------



## connieflyer

I have these on the way in  http://www.ebay.com/itm/311896346303?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT and these  http://www.ebay.com/itm/332260751483?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT with the K-R's I should be good for awhile.


----------



## connieflyer

PCT you might want to try these while you are spending all your cash  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANI...1594c4&pid=100012&rk=2&rkt=12&sd=332260751483


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I have these on the way in  http://www.ebay.com/itm/311896346303?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT and these  http://www.ebay.com/itm/332260751483?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT with the K-R's I should be good for awhile.



Wow CF, you're getting some serious jewels there.


----------



## connieflyer

They should keep me out of trouble for a little while.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> They should keep me out of trouble for a little while.



If you don't go over the Elise thread, you'll really be in trouble !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Read that all through again. I found that by unsubscribing and then subscribing I am getting some notifications now.  Saw your list of tubes, you won't be outside for awhile, and the deck will go unpainted until PCT gets over there!


----------



## UntilThen

It's getting very crowded now. I'm losing it... now which headphone is connected to which amp and what am I listening to? This is not even factoring which tubes I'm using. Fun times.


----------



## connieflyer

Seems like a good problem to have!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Saw your list of tubes, you won't be outside for awhile, and the deck will go unpainted until PCT gets over there!



I really need some help here. You and Pct better get your butts here.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps H1 can pick us up on the way!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Perhaps H1 can pick us up on the way!



Definitely ! I think he needs a holiday downunder where the power is pure and unadulterated. I'm on solar energy..... literally listening on my deck.


----------



## connieflyer

Now that should convince him!


----------



## pctazhp

So I go out to enjoy this balmy 110 F balmy June day, and return to find all my money has been spent and someone is planning a transoceanic trip for me down under. I won't buy those drivers made by the guy who invented radio. At least I think Marconi invented radio - or maybe it was USB - I'm not sure. And as far as flying to Sydney to get UT under control, that would be the fox guarding the hen house - and we'd end up buying an awful lot of farmer tubes. Do you know how to identify farmer tubes? They would be in a box held by a farmer who is outstanding in his field.

I bought the Sylvania 6SN7-WGTs from an ebay seller in Alabama who has a 50% positive ebay rating. I figure at least one of the tubes should be good. Just kidding!!! He has a perfect rating.

Does anyone know where I can buy formula for baby tubes???


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 18, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy formula for baby tubes???



China has good formula milk.

Oh my bad... formula for baby tubes?

I'm on T1 with Euforia now - RCA 6sn7gt vt231 and TS 5998.

Omg T1 sounds so good after a few weeks absence.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct, are your GEC as good looking as these?


----------



## connieflyer

Mine came with a micro fiber cloth and a can of engine degreaser!


----------



## connieflyer

PCT, don't worry about spending all the money while we are there, I have an immaculale record when it comes to finds,I can be trusted with his money!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Mine came with a micro fiber cloth and a can of engine degreaser!



Yeah? Play me this music then.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Pct, are your GEC as good looking as these?



Yes, and mine sound better


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Yeah? Play me this music then.




In the future could you please place this warning on videos like this:  "NOT FOR EARLY MORNING CONSUMPTION"


----------



## pctazhp

This is good early morning entertainment especially chosen for @connieflyer  because I know how much he loved all the flower children   Maybe it will take his mind off spending MY money !!!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Most of the flower children that I knew are either buried or are so burned out they don't even see death approaching, might not be such a bad attitude after all! Thanks for reminding me about my early years, free love, just great. My GEC's did not come with original boxes from Langrex. Wonder how much impact that may have!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> In the future could you please place this warning on videos like this:  "NOT FOR EARLY MORNING CONSUMPTION"



You mean not for young children? I have no idea you are young.


----------



## pctazhp

Recently I got a PM from an Arizona resident who had seen one of my posts on a Schiit thread telling me about an Arizona meet thread that I didn't know about. The group doesn't seem very active, but I guess they have had at least one meet and are trying to plan another one. He has a pretty impressive system including a Gumby. Hope they will plan a meet where I can show off one of my F-A amps. Probably would take Elise in hopes of finding someone in Arizona who would want to buy it. Either that or I will pack it for my rescue trip to Sydney. UT is now without a pre-2017 Elise for his collection.


----------



## UntilThen

Langrex doesn't have original boxes, I wonder why. However I can sell you my boxes.


----------



## connieflyer

Looks like we might horse trade PCT's and my labor for the boxes!  PCT hope you get to hear a gumby, I know you are hiding more funds, so we have to put those out in the economy, it is your civic duty!


----------



## UntilThen

I love this song. Roberta sings with so much emotions.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct you can just borrow CF's Gumby for a test drive. I would let you have my Yggy for a test drive too except I've cemented it to my desk. So you have to come here, do some work and listen to Yggy.

I don't want pre 2017 Elise. My version has special tuning.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Looks like we might horse trade PCT's and my labor for the boxes!  PCT hope you get to hear a gumby, I know you are hiding more funds, so we have to put those out in the economy, it is your civic duty!



Well, as i just reported, there is a guy here in Arizona who owns the Gumby. So that may happen. Yeah. I do have hidden funds. Just can't remember where I hid them (((

BTW, that Arizona guy also owns an Eddie Current Zana Deux w custom upgrades. Would be fun to hear.


----------



## connieflyer

Try this one to ease in to your day.


----------



## UntilThen

Having 3 amps is good. I've been listening to music for 12 hours straight. If I had only one amp, it would have burn by now but I've been alternating between the amps every 3 hours. Good right?

If I get back the La Figaro 339, I'll have 4 amps to alternate. Brilliant. Problem is how to tell my son that I want it back? I can't....... no dad can do that......


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I don't want pre 2017 Elise. My version has special tuning.



I didn't really think you would be interested. Just wanted to plant a not very subtle hint that my Elise is available for purchase


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> BTW, that Arizona guy also owns an Eddie Current Zana Deux w custom upgrades. Would be fun to hear.



Ok..... now you need to go and give us an unbiased report.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Try this one to ease in to your day.



Nah I prefer Carribean Queen.


----------



## UntilThen

Well it's morning for you as it is morning for me except it's very early morning here at 12:15am...... so bedtime beckons for me BUT

I'm reminded that I'm an Innocent Man and no one sings it better than Billy Joel..... and you know what? He sings it better when he's older .... amazing. So my parting words to you my friends is that it's never too late to discover that you really have a singing talent. So open up your vocal chords and sing it with Billy on this song for me .... please.


----------



## pctazhp

I love Billy Joel. Happy dreams


----------



## UntilThen

Oh I ammmmm, an innocent mannnn  .... yes I ammmmm

I'm afraid I'll sing this song in my sleep.


----------



## pctazhp

I know I have a very special and unique system. It’s not something I want to brag about or receive validation for. It’s also not something I could say until very recently. Having been involved in home audio for almost 50 years I know what is special and what is just acceptable.

I know I can probably never convince anyone on the HD800S thread to consider Euforia. I have tried, and as far as I know have failed. I’m a lone voice there. Neither can I convince anyone on the Schiit threads who is looking for alternative to USB that my ASUS board with its USB by-pass function is a very cost effective method to avoid USB concerns of those who seem hell bent on spending a lot of money to solve. I am also a single voice speaking in support of the ASUS soundcard.

All I know is that I feel very fortunate to have reached the point I’m at. I know there are many other paths, and certainly don’t assume mine is the only way. But I do know it is one way that would be worthy of consideration.


----------



## UntilThen

Do you know the Frank Sinatra song, 'I did it my way'?

That's all that matters.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> I know I have a very special and unique system. It’s not something I want to brag about or receive validation for. It’s also not something I could say until very recently. Having been involved in home audio for almost 50 years I know what is special and what is just acceptable.
> 
> I know I can probably never convince anyone on the HD800S thread to consider Euforia. I have tried, and as far as I know have failed. I’m a lone voice there. Neither can I convince anyone on the Schiit threads who is looking for alternative to USB that my ASUS board with its USB by-pass function is a very cost effective method to avoid USB concerns of those who seem hell bent on spending a lot of money to solve. I am also a single voice speaking in support of the ASUS soundcard.
> 
> All I know is that I feel very fortunate to have reached the point I’m at. I know there are many other paths, and certainly don’t assume mine is the only way. But I do know it is one way that would be worthy of consideration.


Hi pct,

You may be surprised - the voice of truth will make itself heard.......


----------



## connieflyer

I believe you brother, I believe you!


----------



## UntilThen

Go to any head amp thread in Headfi and onwers will tell you they have their end game system. That's pride of owership.

I'll be generous and will agree with them all. That way everyone is happy. If they are not happy you will see a lot of their amps in the for sale section. I've not seen many ... in fact very few Elise and zero Euforia put up for sale.

Now pass me some cookies while I engage more with euphoria.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I believe you brother, I believe you!



I believe you too. Now let's swap DACs for one month so we get to believe what the other party is believing.


----------



## UntilThen

Howza ! Yggy is online for 30 days 20 hours 51 minutes and 39 seconds. Now I can listen to 'Smoke On The Water' and get the real experience. Literally smoke on the water.


----------



## pctazhp

I appreciate all the believers)))) Maybe it's just pride of ownership, but I'd like to think I've arrived at a point in my life where I am less susceptible to things like that. And wise enough to know mine is but one of millions of paths


----------



## UntilThen

Finally Lukasz replied to my question to him... I ask him, 'What have you done to my Elise? It's sounding so much like my Euforia.'

Read on in the Elise thread....


----------



## UntilThen

I Can't Find The Time


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 19, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Maybe it's just pride of ownership



Pride of ownership is your inherent right.

Can you remember when you bought your 1st new car?
You make sure you drive around the block 20 times so everyone can see it.

Can you remember when you enter your new home for the first time?
You ordered 12 roses of every colour.

Can you remember when you say 'I do'?
You didn't realise it will be a lifetime of eternal bliss.

Can you remember when you bought your first tube amp?
OMG there's a tube in it !!!

Can you remember when your first potted plant flower?
I've got green thumb !!!

However this sums up pride of ownership best.
"For 10 years he had been sailing the Mediterranean on a small yacht, living simply, even frugally. He had no house, apartment, car, TV, hi-fi or refrigerator. Apart from a strong attachment to his boat, "pride of ownership" did not feature highly in his mental make-up."

The point is he has pride of ownership in that small yacht.

What I am trying to say is that if you have no pride of ownership in your head-fi gear, then you should give it to the homeless guy and he won't accuse you of hype and addicted to audio.


----------



## pctazhp

@UntilThen  I assume you saw this post. https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...bable-start-up.701900/page-1406#post-13554258
Seems like you are in good company


----------



## pctazhp

Played on the PCTAZHP Path System, there is so much emotion in this song I can feel however I want !!!


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to Fritz Reiner  hd tracks Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazad the RCA 6sn7 GT's are very full bodied, some of the best I have heard so far with the GEC's.  These are keepers. Bass is deep and detailed cymbals crash with clarity, without distortion, violins distinct and horns are very powerful.  Loving it


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Listening to Fritz Reiner  hd tracks Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazad the RCA 6sn7 GT's are very full bodied, some of the best I have heard so far with the GEC's.  These are keepers. Bass is deep and detailed cymbals crash with clarity, without distortion, violins distinct and horns are very powerful.  Loving it


Hi CF,

Which RCAs are you referring to?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Listening to Fritz Reiner  hd tracks Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazad the RCA 6sn7 GT's are very full bodied, some of the best I have heard so far with the GEC's.  These are keepers. Bass is deep and detailed cymbals crash with clarity, without distortion, violins distinct and horns are very powerful.  Loving it



Do you know if that was originally the RCA Living Stereo Shaded Dog recording?

Sounds like the RCA 6SN7GTs were a real find.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> @UntilThen  I assume you saw this post. https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...bable-start-up.701900/page-1406#post-13554258
> Seems like you are in good company



Hahaha, I knew all along USB is not as crap as most make it out to be. If Jason use it most of the time, it can't be that crap.... well until he comes up with something better soon.

Likewise I couldn't agree more with him that S/PDIF is not miles ahead of USB as he stated. I rest my case, your Honor.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Hahaha, I knew all along USB is not as crap as most make it out to be. If Jason use it most of the time, it can't be that crap.... well until he comes up with something better soon.
> 
> Likewise I couldn't agree more with him that S/PDIF is not miles ahead of USB as he stated. I rest my case, your Honor.



You can rest all you want. In the meantime I will enjoy a full and rich diet of SPDIF. What does Jason know in comparison to my legendary knowledge and experience????  You may be getting all the "likes" but I can simply "rest" on my laurels (or my sofa, when my laurel sheets need to be changed).


----------



## UntilThen

Does your laurel have room for another butt?

It is time for me to rest too.


----------



## connieflyer

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7GT-JAN-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 6SN7GT JAN RCA Tubes . Date codes match 8-48. 2 hole plates Date codes match 8-48. 2 hole plates These are great sounding tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

PCT the date was 2013 so doubt it. Do you feel better, I liked your post!  Are we still going to rescue UT, or just paint his deck?


----------



## connieflyer

About The Label
Sony Masterworks is an eclectic record label for high quality non-mainstream music.  Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Fritz Reiner


----------



## pctazhp

I had this album. One of my best



I'm only going to Sydney if UT gets a wagon he needs painting



BTW, I'll repeat I love my GEC6080s. Been playing them with Sylvania 6SN7-WGT.  Don't think there is much difference between them and my GEC6AS7G, but I'll wait for UT to get his when he will say something about "tin ears"


----------



## connieflyer

This is the album I had  https://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Leopold-Stokowski/dp/B003NXJ7E6 the Phase Four sound was really good


----------



## connieflyer

This is the you tube not bad but not vinyl


----------



## connieflyer

Maybe for contemplation you might try DeBussy Claire de Lune.


----------



## connieflyer

In this video of a rehearsal you can see what a task master Stokowski was and you can hear the difference it the orchestra after his instructions are carried out.


----------



## connieflyer

One last video while it is quiet. The artistry of this pianist is a thing of beauty to watch, okay you can have your thread back now.


----------



## myphone

Happy tube combinations so far.


----------



## UntilThen

I am getting infamous. Jason like my post.


----------



## UntilThen

So @hypnos1 @pctazhp @connieflyer when you come downunder we will have a meeting. 

To develop a new product for the head-fi industry. It will be revolutionary.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> To develop a new product for the head-fi industry. It will be revolutionary.



Just please don't divulge any proprietary secrets to your new best friend, Jason


----------



## Lord Raven

Thanks, so there is a V1.1 of Elise out there, the renewed Elise. I did not know that.

Question: Cannot Feliks Audio replace the same internals as of Euforia inside of Elise? I know you cannot put bigger transformer because of size constraint but other stuff like wires, resistors, and capacitors can be done. Even you can do it yourself if you know how to solder. Or, send it to Feliks Audio and get it done by them. This will be my next question to Lukasz as well.

I definitely want HD800 as my next HPs after the T1 experience. And Yggy is definitely a great DAC, beyond my reach.

I have Edifier R1280T, basically a gift from my bank 



UntilThen said:


> A renewed Elise is basically a new Elise with all internals, including sockets replaced, saved for the transformer and chassis. Lukasz also told me it's upgraded to current 2017 Elise specs as you would see on their website.
> 
> So I've basically a new Euforia and a new Elise with me.
> 
> ...



I need a single GEC 6AS7G to make a pair, but still don't have the courage to spend another 250$ on a single tube.



UntilThen said:


> Also from zero Gec 6as7g, I've 3 incoming now plus a NOS NIB pair of Gec 6080. All of a sudden I've GECs coming out of my ears and my money out of my wallet, faster than the speed of light.
> 
> Have been listening to the Gec 6080 for about 2 weeks now. Got them for $160 per pair from the seller in New Zealand. It is indeed very good. Love it as much as the Bendix 6080wb but with a different flavour.
> 
> The NOS NIB Gec 6as7g that I've coming is the best example of a prime, new as can be pair of Gec 6as7g I've seen. The data specs is near perfect. I've also bought a used Gec 6as7g for $80. Now maybe I'll find another used one and hang the NOS pair on the wall.



Awesome, I crave for Euforia already. I wish I had enough space on my desktop.



UntilThen said:


> Elise is about 16 hours in from 1st power on. Unless further burn in can transform her quite dramatically, I'd have to say that the difference with Euforia is quite noticeable. Euforia is several steps up in euphony. It is a more saturated, textured and holographic tone. There is more meat and fat to the bones. There's a fluidity to Euforia that makes it sound very natural and pleasing on the ears. Heck, it tames the HD800 and makes it sounds soothing on the ears.
> 
> If I didn't listen to Euforia, Elise sounds very, very good. However once you listen to both, Elise does sound leaner and not as juicy a steak as Euforia. Soundstage is perceptibly wider, higher and deeper on Euforia and bass is stronger too. On a good recording, that's where you hear the more startling difference. Euforia just has that much more micro details. You're able to pin point where instruments sound emanates from more precisely with Euforia than Elise. Not a whole lot more but enough to make the difference.
> 
> These are my initial ramblings. Not posting this on Elise thread. Lest I cast Dante's sorrow on them.



Lukasz nailed the review in one line.



UntilThen said:


> Yeah I agree with Lukasz assessment that Euforia is a few leagues above Elise but I like to emphasised that Elise is a very lovely sounding OTL amp. I have no intention of putting it away.
> 
> In fact, I'll alternate the 2 amps on a long listening sessions. 2 to 3 hours on each.



I am sure you are moving out of your study and into a bigger space soon 



UntilThen said:


> It's getting very crowded now. I'm losing it... now which headphone is connected to which amp and what am I listening to? This is not even factoring which tubes I'm using. Fun times.


----------



## UntilThen

Lord Raven said:


> Thanks, so there is a V1.1 of Elise out there, the renewed Elise. I did not know that.
> *Nope. There is only one renewed Elise and that is mine. *
> 
> Question: Cannot Feliks Audio replace the same internals as of Euforia inside of Elise? I know you cannot put bigger transformer because of size constraint but other stuff like wires, resistors, and capacitors can be done. Even you can do it yourself if you know how to solder. Or, send it to Feliks Audio and get it done by them. This will be my next question to Lukasz as well.
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Just please don't divulge any proprietary secrets to your new best friend, Jason



Of course not. We're going to buy a factory and produce GEC 6as7g tubes again. You are in charge of producing the GEC boxes since you have it as your avatar. CF will do the tube curing and H1 will be in charge of final testing. I will do sales.


----------



## connieflyer

Great idea, can't wait, why I can cure anything!


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Of course not. We're going to buy a factory and produce GEC 6as7g tubes again. You are in charge of producing the GEC boxes since you have it as your avatar. CF will do the tube curing and H1 will be in charge of final testing. I will do sales.





connieflyer said:


> Great idea, can't wait, why I can cure anything!



Since I'm in charge of the box, I have already started redesigning it to say "MADE ON UT'S UNPAINTED DECK" in place of "MADE IN ENGLAND"  We don't need no factory when his deck will be free. I'm taking charge of finances. Also will serve as legal counsel for the venture. With UT in charge of marketing we'll need all the legal protection we can get.


----------



## connieflyer

Still think we need H1 for testing, can not trust UT to do a bang up job on the manufacturing!


----------



## Oskari

You keep an eye on him! He may be shipping cuttings of agave in those boxes!


----------



## connieflyer

It will make interesting packaging!


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> You keep an eye on him! He may be shipping cuttings of agave in those boxes!



That is a light bulb moment. Instead of manufacturing tubes, we will market Agave for it's medicinal values. It's better than aloe vera.

Oh well, we still need GEC 6as7g so we will combine the 2 and produce a green GEC 6as7g for it's medicinal values.


----------



## pctazhp

Interesting you should mention Agave. I happen to know quite a bit about it, but super top secret. Mum's the word. My lips are sealed. Lose lips sink ships. Those who don't know are talking; those who know are keeping silent.  Etc.

First time for TS5998s in my Euforia. Absolutely wonderful. I am coming to believe that Euforia is so good that tubes may not be as critical as they are in Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

Sooooo you know all there is to know about agave!  Is there a way to extract the alcohol and would it be profitable after many, many trial runs to check flavor?


----------



## connieflyer

The TS 5998's really make the Euforia  shine, not quite up to the GEC 6080's but then I have not tried them with the rca 6sn7gt's from 1948 yet. This combo of  rca and gec is going to be hard to beat.  I wish my Sylvania's would hurry up and get here, want to try them with the gec, as I still have my eye on these,   http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANI...6bcd7f6&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=222531131109


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Sooooo you know all there is to know about agave!  Is there a way to extract the alcohol and would it be profitable after many, many trial runs to check flavor?



Check the favor???? Does not compute!!! I don't understand connection between flavor and alcohol. Food has flavor. Alcohol is for transcendental meditation (or is that medication???). Which has got me thinking. If we really want to score big we should develop a desktop alcohol dispensing system which allows HeadFiers to remain completely inanimate for hours listening and sucking alcohol from a tube (that's a round thing like a hose - not a vacuum tube that .... oh never mind). We'll sell it with a bonus liquid collection platter for the chair to sit upon. I even have a novel and unique name for our company - Piiss Audio.

It has not gone without notice that you seemed to saw fit to respond to my comment about Agave, but said nothing about my beautiful and wonderful TS5998s !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The TS 5998's really make the Euforia  shine, not quite up to the GEC 6080's but then I have not tried them with the rca 6sn7gt's from 1948 yet. This combo of  rca and gec is going to be hard to beat.  I wish my Sylvania's would hurry up and get here, want to try them with the gec, as I still have my eye on these,   http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANIA-JAN-CHS-6SN7GT-VT-231-TUBES-1940s-WW2-TROPHY-QUALITY-115-115-PAIRS/232274550313?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=41375&meid=74c58657576d4f2ab7a76f77d6bcd7f6&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=222531131109



OK. so you at least said something about TS5998. Agree not quite up to GEC6080, but we're talking UT levels of discernment. You will love the Sylvanias with 6080. You can take that to the bank - or the toilet - your choice.


----------



## connieflyer

This is what I am using for the Scotch now, that is why my speach is spllurred a bite.  https://www.amazon.com/Savvy-Stainl...003392&sr=1-6&keywords=insulated+water+bottle


----------



## pctazhp

With the TS5998s in play this evening I've been listening to a Tidal HD playlist of film scores. There are some amazing symphonic tracks with a scattering of stellar sound effects and a lot of crashing, powerful bass. WOW, WOW, WOW. What an experience!!!!  Long live Euforia


----------



## myphone

pctazhp said:


> OK. so you at least said something about TS5998. Agree not quite up to GEC6080, but we're talking UT levels of discernment. You will love the Sylvanias with 6080. You can take that to the bank - or the toilet - your choice.



To my ears, 5998 works well with both RCA VT 231 and Sylvania VT 231. Different flavors. All great.

BTW, the green label ones were made in 1951. 1940's had white label. I have both 1940's VT 231 and 1952 green "bad boy". Like 1952 ones a bit better, richer and more emotion plus much better bass.

Both 1940's VT 231 and 1952 green "bad boy" work great with GEC 6080. 

RCA VT 231 and GEC 6080 combo is a bit too warm to me.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> The TS 5998's really make the Euforia  shine, not quite up to the GEC 6080's but then I have not tried them with the rca 6sn7gt's from 1948 yet. This combo of  rca and gec is going to be hard to beat.  I wish my Sylvania's would hurry up and get here, want to try them with the gec, as I still have my eye on these,   http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVANIA-JAN-CHS-6SN7GT-VT-231-TUBES-1940s-WW2-TROPHY-QUALITY-115-115-PAIRS/232274550313?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=41375&meid=74c58657576d4f2ab7a76f77d6bcd7f6&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=222531131109



Wow, the price is crazy. mine were < $ 10 each NOS, 15 years ago at Hamfest.


----------



## pctazhp

myphone said:


> Wow, the price is crazy. mine were < $ 10 each NOS, 15 years ago at Hamfest.



A fellow Ham guy?? I was KY7A back in the day.


----------



## myphone

pctazhp said:


> A fellow Ham guy?? I was KY7A back in the day.



Just a tube guy.


----------



## pctazhp

myphone said:


> Just a tube guy.



Me too today. My Ham days are now buried in the deep past ))


----------



## UntilThen

When Pct was a boy, 5998 was only $1 each but he didnt know about tubes then.


----------



## richard89

Has anyone tried 6 X EL3N on the Euforia yet? How does it sound? Is there still hum as the case on some Elise?


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> When Pct was a boy, 5998 was only $1 each but he didnt know about tubes then.



Au Contraire!! Maybe 5998s were only a dollar, but I certainly knew about tubes when I was a boy. They were in the Heath Kits I built


----------



## pctazhp

I'll say good night with one of the great recordings of all time.


----------



## connieflyer

Well she is a Harris after all!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well she is a Harris after all!



Oi CF, go to Elise thread and read my masterpiece.


----------



## mordy

richard89 said:


> Has anyone tried 6 X EL3N on the Euforia yet? How does it sound? Is there still hum as the case on some Elise?


Hi R89,

Take a look at my avatar...
UT did try it as well.


----------



## richard89

mordy said:


> Hi R89,
> 
> Take a look at my avatar...
> UT did try it as well.



Oh I was assuming that was from the Elise.


----------



## mordy

You are right - but UT claims that the updated Elise and the Euforia sound similar......


----------



## richard89

Does the Euforia have hum with the 6 pack mordy?


----------



## pctazhp

Wanna see something that looks really cool?? Psvane with TS5998. Also sounds really, really wonderful. I mean bring tears to the eyes wonderful!!!! Is there any approved tube that can make Euforia sound less than amazing????


----------



## mordy

richard89 said:


> Does the Euforia have hum with the 6 pack mordy?


Hi R89,

I had the misfortune of ordering three EL3N adapters (had three before from Mrs Xuling)) from a different company than Mrs Xuling and they shorted out the three EL3N tubes and fried a different amp than the Elise. Luckily, the protective circuitry in the Elise kicked in, and the amp shut down for 10 min or so. At the time I did not understand what happened, and tried a different amp with disastrous results.

The 6xEL3N worked for a while and sounded good before the adapters shorted out, but at this point in time I am content using only 4 tubes and don't feel the need for more. Re the controversy in using non recommended tubes I do feel that the EL3N is safe as a driver, having logged hundreds of hours as driver tubes in my Elise.


----------



## pctazhp

Very quick report. My back up pair of Sylvania 6SN7-WGTs arrived today. Cost was $39.99. They sound great with almost no burn-in time. That was a real find, but offset by the $300 I paid for my pair of Sylvania 6SN7-Ws ((((  Pair of Fotons ($8 plus $8 shipping) on the way from Romania, and that's it as far as tubes go. I don't care what UT tries to tempt us with


----------



## mordy (Jun 21, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Very quick report. My back up pair of Sylvania 6SN7-WGTs arrived today. Cost was $39.99. They sound great with almost no burn-in time. That was a real find, but offset by the $300 I paid for my pair of Sylvania 6SN7-Ws ((((  Pair of Fotons ($8 plus $8 shipping) on the way from Romania, and that's it as far as tubes go. I don't care what UT tries to tempt us with



There is a Ukranian seller that sells the Fotons for $2.97, $3.97 and $4.97 each with free shipping, These tubes have different prices depending on the decade they were made, 70-80's, 60's and 50's.
As a general  rule, earlier tubes may be of better quality, but I do not know for sure in this case.
Figure 4-5 weeks for them to arrive in the US.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...TR0.TRC0.H0.X1x6N8S.TRS0&_nkw=1x6N8S&_sacat=0

Just saw now that he has a fourth Foton 50s version for $9,70 (same page as above) that he claims is as good as the Melz tubes. And yes, he has the Melz metal base tubes as well for $27.70 each.

(In the beginning Feliks offered the Melz tubes as an upgrade but discontinued due to quality problems.)


----------



## UntilThen

There's no controversy re non recommended. Everyone is free to roll as they see fit. With the usual caveat. If your amp goes belly up, you have yourself to blame. 

I was the first to use 6xEL3N in Elise. It was alright for a year. Then I get slight noise like the tubes not contacting well. Reseating the tubes make it better than it came back again.

Now I go commando. I dont wear adapters anymore. Did I miss those tubes with adapters? No. I am more comfortable now naked. Just ask Tarzan.... and Jane.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Very quick report. My back up pair of Sylvania 6SN7-WGTs arrived today. Cost was $39.99. They sound great with almost no burn-in time. That was a real find, but offset by the $300 I paid for my pair of Sylvania 6SN7-Ws ((((  Pair of Fotons ($8 plus $8 shipping) on the way from Romania, and that's it as far as tubes go. I don't care what UT tries to tempt us with



I have a feeling that Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass round plates with GEC 6as7g will restore and prolong longetivity. Dont believe just ask the Monkey .... that little monkey in 'Monk goes west'.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 22, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Interesting you should mention Agave. I happen to know quite a bit about it, but super top secret. Mum's the word. My lips are sealed. Lose lips sink ships. Those who don't know are talking; those who know are keeping silent.  Etc.
> 
> First time for TS5998s in my Euforia.* Absolutely wonderful. I am coming to believe that Euforia is so good that tubes may not be as critical as they are in Elise.*



Hey pct...I want to know more about this Agave - spill the beans, man!!! ...

Anyway, as I have managed to grab a few spare moments to let y'all know I am indeed still alive, and bore you with yet another massive missive, your statement - that I've emboldened (yes, that's the correct term, don't you know!) - is in fact very timely. It is both true and false, m'Lud!

*In general* it would appear to be so - as I myself (and others) have previously stated. AND, as I have already covered ad nauseum, upgrading other elements in the system_ can _bring much greater improvements overall.... _*HOWEVER*_...the addition of my Naim Uniti Core and Balanced AC Mains unit (with Advanced Filter System - the ASF3000) has finally confirmed *to me*, and _*in my particular system*_, that the out-of-favour EL tubes - in my case, mesh-plate Valvo EL11 drivers (and one Australian EL3N*G*) and EL12 Spezial powers - surpass any other combo I have ever tried, and which include drivers generally regarded 'better' than any 6SN7 lol!

At this point, I want to emphasise that my position goes against that recommended by F-A, and is only undertaken on the understanding that I (and anyone else) do so purely at one's own risk. But speaking of 'risk'... with regard to the EL3N/EL11/EL12, my own feeling (based upon amateur logic) is that as these tubes have the transformer AND casing run barely warm, I personally cannot see how they could cause any problems related to overheating...but I'm open to any and all explanations as to how this could possibly happen! 

OK...so what has convinced me of my conclusions?...Well, apart from various top grade 6SN7s used, including different VT231s/NU Black Glass/Sylvania 7N7 ('Chrome Dome'), my last comparison was using the Mullard ECC31s driving GEC CV2523 powers...(the 31s being, of course, basically the same as the famous ECC32, but with common cathode, and as such generally accepted by afficianados as 'better' than 6SN7s per se).

Anyway, at first I was taken aback at the sound that filled my ears - especially the incredible bass and mids, and was even more impressed than before the Naim and BM unit were in place. So I waited a couple of days for the amp (and my ears!) to readjust...and then I had the shock of my life - there were so many aspects of the presentation that simply came nowhere near my 11/12 Spez combo (I shall call #2, the 31/GECs #1)....viz :

1. Although #1's bass was more forceful, #2's had better detail, control and balance. The lower frequencies dominated much more in #1...far too much for my own particular taste.
2. Instrument/voice separation was much better in #2, giving greater clarity, positioning and overall coherence.
3. Soundstage was much more expansive in #2, with wonderful spatial quality, air and 3-dimensionality. No other tube combo has given me this degree of feeling "out there in Space", with no hint of compression whatsoever...or such a sense of natural, effortless flow of sound. "Immersion" is total, but not in any artificial way...it just feels _right_...
4. The entire #2 FR was presented in perfect balance - no single section dominating whatsoever. Bass was tight, and still with sufficient force/'slam'; mids gave vocals all the depth and timbre needed for different tonal ranges, along with relevant instruments of course!; and treble extended as far as you'd be able to hear, but again with great control and finesse (and the most delicious shimmer and decay I've ever heard).
5. Immaculate Pace, Rhythm and Timing (#2) kept the delivery precise and the flow unwavering...with wonderful transient handling - highlighted especially by the tremendous guitar playing (and masterly recording) of Maury Muehleisen and Jim Croce in the various numbers they performed together...truly mesmerising!

I could say more, but I think I've already caused enough indigestion to last a lifetime lol! ...

I must repeat, however, that the Naim and ASF3000 have helped immensely in highlighting these qualities, and that my own particular tubes are adapted by myself...with the caveat that the EL11/12 family (apart from the straight-sided EL12N) can be somewhat unreliable, being very old tubes in the main. They are also, of course, not officially endorsed by F-A.

Anyway, this will probably be my last BIG post, so I shall finish for now with a few relevant photos   :

Mesh-plate Australian Philips EL3NG + mesh-plate Valvo EL11 drivers; Telefunken EL12 Spezial powers (#2 combo)





Especially for "Blue" lover - @connieflyer (and you, @pctazhp?!)....the glow from my Airlink Transformers ASF3000 Balanced AC Mains unit (with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System) :




And lastly the usurped ECC31/GEC CV2523 setup :





Time for nightcap and early zzzzzzzzzzz

BFN guys....CHEERS!....and HAPPY LISTENING, whatever your favourite setup!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

Welcome back @hypnos1  and great pictures. Nice picture is what we need. I'm glad you're promoting ECC31 again. Perhaps I could sell my nearly new pair of ECC31 now. Anyone who wants it please PM me for a great discount.... together with the adapters. Better it go to someone who will use them than me hoarding it and not using it.

I concur with HAPPY LISTENING and whatever your favourite setup.

My position though is I've never been happier without adapters and complying with manufacturer's recommendations... not to mention the great euphonic tones of 6sn7 and 6as7. Very few amps use this exact combination now. I mean specifically tuned for it. I can only think of SinglePower of long ago and that has many fans till it goes sour with the designer....


----------



## connieflyer

Blue we want more blue. That is really interesting I want one correction I want two need a spare just in case. Great post glad to see you back in quantity and quality take care H


----------



## pctazhp

Great presentation H1. I love your pictures. The one's I take make me want to barf!!!

I guess we have each charted our own separate course, but that keeps it interesting. I could never work with tubes the way you do and at this stage in my life there is no realistic expectation that I'm going to use any source other than Tidal HD (or some similar streaming service). But thanks to Euforia, CF kindly supplying me with an ASUS board to by-pass USB, and a good collection of high quality recommended tubes I am happy with where I am. I believe a Gumby will be a further improvement, but I suspect that my Bimby is already very good, and Gumby may not be a dramatic improvement. But we shall see. 

I couldn't tell if this was your last big post for the day, the week or indefinitely. I certainly hope it wasn't some kind of swan song. WE NEED YOU SANE AND STEADY VOICE HERE!!!!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I could say more, but I think I've already caused enough indigestion to last a lifetime lol! ...


Verrry happy to see you, CJ!


----------



## UntilThen

Yup if left to my voice alone you would all be crazy soon.


----------



## myphone

Listening to Ken-Rad VT231 (staggered plate) and Sylvania 6sn7 GT (1952) with GEC 6080 tonight. 

Ken-Rad VT231/GEC 6080 works great with HD 650. Rich and palpable with Great energy. Borderline bright with HD800.

Sylvania GT/GEC 6080 works really well with HD800. Rich and detail with Great energy. somewhat too warm with HD650.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a pity Lukasz did not press on with my suggestion for a EL3N amp. On the same token, a customised EL11 / 12 amp by FA would be great. Problem is sourcing good EL tubes.

I would still like to see FA to do a customised 2A3 headphone amp.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Blue we want more blue. That is really interesting I want one correction I want two need a spare just in case. Great post glad to see you back in quantity and quality take care H



Thanks CF...and @pctazhp, @UntilThen and @Oskari...not _quite_ a Swan Song, pct, but very close - for the foreseeable future, at least. Life's obstacles, and all that jazz lol! . But I shall indeed stick my (long!) nose in now and again, as and when time and opportunity permit...you guys' _occasional(?!!)_ insanity is all that's keeping me sane at present!!! 

And yes, there truly are many paths to enjoying Euforia's (and Elise's!) undoubted charms...from the 'conventional' to 'alternative', but with certain caveats for the latter, of course. And although I myself will never go back to the former (for the reasons I listed in my last post - and there were others!), I am really glad that most other folks are now extremely happy with the tubes I originally asked F-A to configure for lol!! ...the safest option, to be sure! . And although there are SS HP amps out there that are delivering quite remarkable sound compared to not very long ago, tubes still have that 'special factor' IMO, and I doubt there's very little can compete in the same arenas with F-A's offerings...(certainly anywhere near their price points). And yes also, UT, it will be interesting to see if F-A do indeed come up with anything radically different in the HP amp line...(but I personally think it very unlikely - given the already stellar performance of Euforia, I should imagine the cost involved in taking it much higher would then be entering a _much_ smaller market. Especially as one would then _definitely_ have to be spending BIG bucks on the rest of the system to make it worthwhile!...perhaps even more so than on the likes of my Naim server/ASF3000/Hugo 2...[or Yggy!]!!!).

Now, back to you, D...you sure you want *TWO?*...with shipping to the US at £136 a time?!! (and that's for the 11kg 'Conditioning' Balanced Mains unit...my *24kg* ASF3000 model isn't available for you guys, I'm afraid...wonder why?!!!). Mind you, with the CBMU at just £260, that's still darned good value in my book lol! And that blue is SO lovely!!
And UT - Airlink Transformers now have a subsidiary in WA, but they're "out of stock" it would appear!

And O...if we're to remain _really_ good friends - *please* reconsider your position on acquiring the Yggy and Hugo 2 for comparison purposes...I doubt there will _ever_ be a totally objective/impartial/unbiased/accurate shoot out otherwise lol!!...(but I might just forgive you...*if* you can come up with anything to match the choral splendour of that haunting funereal piece you posted many moons ago! )....

CHEERS, and best wishes y'all...(thought I was done with "big" posts for a while...but you guys just can't be resisted lol! ). BFN, CJ


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  there's a power station about a mile from my place. Now all I have to do is to dig a tunnel to it and tap the power to my house and viola ...... more power than I need..... power abundantly and uniterrupted. 

Yggy and Hugo2 sounds like nice names. Short and simple. Like Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pill of water.

Let the shootout begin. Bring the Hugo2 to Sydney and your work clothes. The deck will be painted and the comparison will be done. BBQ's on me and all the guinness you need. No 'XO' I'm afraid. I sold that to buy the Yggy and GEC 6as7g. Those beryllium cost a lot.

This is the power station nearby....


----------



## pctazhp

Don't EVEN think about a power plant war !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Don't EVEN think about a power plant war !!!!



You have up the stake. Ok you win.....


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ...(but I might just forgive you...*if* you can come up with anything to match the choral splendour of that haunting funereal piece you posted many moons ago! )....



You must realize that this is a tall order! But here's something for you.


_Nälkämaan laulu_


_Oi kallis Suomenmaa_


_Suomalainen rukous_


_Maa on niin kaunis_


_Soi kunniaksi luojan_

Thanks for the request! I had fun.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

richard89 said:


> Has anyone tried 6 X EL3N on the Euforia yet? How does it sound? Is there still hum as the case on some Elise?



Hi Richard,

I've not fully responded to this and I will now. A bit of background for those unaware.

I was the first to try 6xEL3N on Elise after consulting Lukasz. I remember his response when I send him the photo of Elise with those six EL3N mounted with 2 sets of adapters. He had quite a bit of shock, as well as amusement. He wasn't angry but was quite surprised that it work as I told him. His dad Henryk, took a look and started pacing the room. When he did return to the photo, he mutter that 'it might work with the right adapter' with the usual caution, 'you do so at your own risk'.

That begun a long period of my love affair with 6xEL3N and the many pictures that I post of it on the Elise thread.

Fast forward to now, I've totally given up on non recommended tubes by Feliks Audio. Why? Because just after I received my Euforia, Elise's left channel became almost muted. I took a look at Elise bottom and through the vent, I could see that the PCB board and circuits were quite roasted. I then send Elise back to Poland to be renewed. My instructions to Lukasz was to make it new again. Make it new they did. They changed everything except the transformer and chassis. My Elise became an upgraded Elise, closer to Euforia then the original Elise.

I then ask Lukasz what happen to my Elise. Lukasz confirmed that the circuits were fried and that the only explanations were using non recommended tubes that over heated it, over a period of time. I had my Elise for 1.5 years and in that time, I use it heavily everyday.

Now I have use a lot of non recommended tubes but never any Christmas tree setup. Never any bizarre setup apart from 6xEL3N. It may not even be due to 6xEL3N. It could be the 6N7G that I use heavily at one time or ECC31. Remember Elise allowable current range is 6 to 6.5a. Lukasz told us so himself. It was not a figure pluck from the air.

Using 6sn7 and 6as7:-

2x6sn7 = 0.6x2 = 1.2a
2x6as7 or 2x6080 = 2.5x2 = 5a
Giving a total of 6.2. <--------------------- very safe point in the allowable 6 to 6.5a

Using Mazda 6N7g and 6as7 gives:-

2x6n7g = 0.8x2 = 1.6a
2x6as7 = 2.5x2 = 5a
Giving a total of 6.6a <------------------ now we're 0.1a over the allowable ampere range. We could argue that over by 0.1a is nothing but how would we know, when using this over a long period? This is what Lukasz is trying to point out. It might be ok for a short period but the life of the tube amp will suffer over the long period. That's what he said.

Using Mullard ECC31 in Elise is even worst.

2xECC31 = 1x2 = 2a
2x6as7 = 2.5x2 = 5a
Giving a total of 7a <------------------- We assume that this is allowable. Yes big assumption here when the manufacturer told us specifically that the allowable range is 6 to 6.5a. We took the liberty in our wisdom to think that 7a is OK. Over the long period, a fried circuit is what's coming which is what happen to my Elise.

Right, that was a lengthy write up but one that I must expand on. So after Elise came back and having gotten a new Euforia, I thought to myself. I am going to make sure these tube amps last a very long time. They should go for 10 years without problems if use according to manufacturer's guidance. That's when I took the extra-ordinary steps of banning myself from using any non recommended tubes, including the ones I like most, including the ones I paid a lot of money for, including the ones I wrote pages and pages of praise. Nope I wasn't going to use any of them if I am unsure which ones did fry my Elise internals. If I wanted to keep my upgraded Elise and new Euforia for a long time, why take any risk. Why disregard the manufacturer's recommendation. These amps aren't exactly cheap, especially Euforia at $1399.

Was 6sn7 and 6as7 not good enough for Elise and Euforia. A big NO. These tube amps sing beautifully with 6sn7 and 6as7 and why would that be surprising. *They were specifically tuned for 6sn7 and 6as7 and not others. FA did not create a super amp to accept all kind of tubes.
*
If Lukasz had a voice here, this is what he would have said so himself.

Cheers and enjoy Elise and Euforia for a long time,
UT


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hi guys,
since I received my Euforia in the beginning of June I have been listening to a lot of music with the default tube setup, which I really like.
I have mostly used my (Kameleonized) HD650, which sound like they never did for good!

Yesterday I decided to give a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 Bad Boys from '52, keeping default power tubes.
The sound became much richer in the mids, but somewhat too warm for my taste (with the HD650).
I guess those tubes have poor synergy with the power tubes mounted at the moment.
This coming week I will also give a try to a pair of Ken Rads 6SN7 that I have around.

So my question is:
Is there an obvious candidate to upgrade the power tubes that could go better with these Sylvanias and Ken Rads that I mentioned?

Sadly, most of the tubes discussed in this thread cost more than my headphones when bought in pairs


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Sadly, most of the tubes discussed in this thread cost more than my headphones when bought in pairs



You need a lighter tone power tubes then. This might fit your bill for the price and using your HD650.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1X-Thomson-...383487?hash=item21146990ff:g:F70AAOSwdzVXpIIC

Also you could try Mullard 6080.


----------



## pctazhp

UT or anyone else. Do you want to do a joint purchase on these? You pay $500 for one of them, and I'll cover the balance on the other 2. We should not pass up this opportunity!!! And look who the seller is 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-PIECES-TR...939474?hash=item5d7242ced2:g:6lwAAOSwjKFZRKAc


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> You must realize that this is a tall order! But here's something for you.
> 
> Thanks for the request! I had fun.



Well O...forgiven shall you be - _almost_ up to that magical funereal piece...WELL DONE!...and many thanks (glad it wasn't an odious task for you lol!  ). Shall certainly explore more Finnish choral on youtube...CHEERS!...(but who now is going to take on that nigh-on-impossible task of _objective/impartial_ comparison of Yggdrasil vs Hugo2 lol?...I have a feeling *I* would be biased towards Rob Watts's FPGA, Pulse Array approach to DAC, and our mutual friend @UntilThen a bit more to Ssshhhh....you-know-who's MB/r2r approach - no matter how hard we both would _try_ to be totally impartial lol!!  Especially as it would appear UT has snaffled the last of the Hennessy XO!!! .......). A quandary indeed it would seem, now you've extricated yourself from any obligation lol!!...(I know, I know..._what_ obligation, I hear you say?...have you _no_ sense of remorse for my plight, mon ami?...don't blame you!!!)....CJ


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1 Based on everything I've seen I think you and UT both call things as you hear them without a lot of bias. I think Schiit is going to be at London CamJam. Maybe you can listen to Yiggy if you have a chance and let us know what you think in comparison to Hugo2. Let the chips fall where they may - I always say.


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Hi guys,
> since I received my Euforia in the beginning of June I have been listening to a lot of music with the default tube setup, which I really like.
> I have mostly used my (Kameleonized) HD650, which sound like they never did for good!
> 
> ...


@Tunkejazz, let me save you a lot of money when I say go buy GEC 6080 and Sylvania 6sn7w. Pricey, yes, but you won't want to buy anything else I promise! So that's actually a lot of savings on tubes you'll never be listening to once you end up (eventually) buying these as I did!

I can hear E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, and I'm on Elise!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> @Tunkejazz, let me save you a lot of money when I say go buy GEC 6080 and Sylvania 6sn7w. Pricey, yes, but you won't want to buy anything else I promise! So that's actually a lot of savings on tubes you'll never be listening to once you end up (eventually) buying these as I did!
> 
> I can hear E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, and I'm on Elise!



Where were you a year and a half ago when I needed you?????????????


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> UT or anyone else. Do you want to do a joint purchase on these? You pay $500 for one of them, and I'll cover the balance on the other 2. We should not pass up this opportunity!!! And look who the seller is
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-PIECES-TR...939474?hash=item5d7242ced2:g:6lwAAOSwjKFZRKAc



Hi pct...WOW!!!...and well timed, as far as I'm concerned.

As an adjunct to my previous posts, I would like to add that although there is indeed a wonderful choice of 6SN7s (and 6AS7G/6080s), IMHO there are also a good few that are WAY over-rated and WAY *over-priced!! *lol....I personally believe money is MUCH better steered towards source/DAC/headphones......(or even @UntilThen's project to tap directly into the local Power Station - unless Nuclear-fuelled, that is!!! ...I'd still recommend *good* mains conditioning/filtering, though!...).

And UT...I commend you on your "poacher-turned-gamekeeper" position - you invested a great deal of time, energy and money in our experimentation with alternative tubes, and it is a cruel shame that overheating issues have brought you back to the 'straight and narrow'. But you have definitely reinstated the sensible position, which will also of course keep folks on the right side of F-A. But I do also still believe there is a place for 'risky pioneering', so long as one is prepared to take those associated risks...

On the subject of 'risk' and overheating issues, it is indeed very difficult to pinpoint precisely what tubes/procedures may have contributed to such problems...especially for those of us who carried out extensive trialling! My own position on this is that I personally will not use any tubes that have the transformer and case running quite hot...especially not even the wonderful ECC32/CV181 family, which run the amp very hot indeed (but which are actually on the F-A recommended list)...and/or which need the volume dial turned up appreciably more than average - allowing for different input levels from different recordings, of course). The reason I myself am happy to stay with the EL11/12 tubes is not only because of how much cooler they have the trafo and case running, but also that most of my listening can be done at level 4 of 20 (9 o'clock). In addition, my own Elise showed browning of some boards* long before these (or the EL3N) tubes came along*  But to make absolutely sure they aren't overheating an isolated section of the circuitry, I shall be conducting comparative temp measurements of the entire internals, in the hope of answering this issue once and for all lol!...(I love them _that_ much!! ).

Be that as it may, I am truly glad that yourself and others are enjoying immensely the wide range of tubes our amps are specifically configured for...just please don't pay some of those over-inflated prices LOL!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> Where were you a year and a half ago when I needed you?????????????


Thinking about getting a second hand HD600 and try my way into head-fi on a bargain!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ...have you _no_ sense of remorse for my plight, mon ami?...


Nope. None.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> that magical funereal piece


If anybody wonders what that was:


Oskari said:


>






Oskari said:


> This is _Narvan marssi_ (The March of Narva) performed by _Polyteknikkojen Kuoro_ (The Polytech Choir), an academic male choir, who are apparently performing at the Proms tonight!
> _
> Narvan marssi_ appears on their 1998 album _Suomelle – Isänmaallisia lauluja_ as well as the 2004 collection _Vuodet – Polyteknikkojen Kuoro 100 vuotta_. I see both on Spotify and iTunes.
> 
> P.S. In this case the march was sung in (Finland) Swedish, so we might also call it _Narvamarschen_ or _Karl XII:s marsch vid Narva_.


----------



## UntilThen

Every morning when I wake up, I bring up Euforia and Elise thread first before reading CNN, ABC, NBC, YBC, anyBC..... you get it? Our threads are more interesting !!!! The range of opinions, style of writing and humour is extra-ordinary..... enough to justify over-heating the kettle. True story - I once left the pot of water to boil on the stove and when I next look at it, all the water's gone.... all because I needed to finish Beethoven's 5th symphony, followed by 6th, 7th 8th and 9th.... and then start again at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... and then it's onto the Creation by Joseph Haydn.


----------



## attmci (Jun 24, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> UT or anyone else. Do you want to do a joint purchase on these? You pay $500 for one of them, and I'll cover the balance on the other 2. We should not pass up this opportunity!!! And look who the seller is
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-PIECES-TR...939474?hash=item5d7242ced2:g:6lwAAOSwjKFZRKAc


Great suggestion. I will take the copper grid one for........80 bucks, U and UT can share the other pair.

LORD, UT is back. he is back. Have to go......run.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> UT or anyone else. Do you want to do a joint purchase on these? You pay $500 for one of them, and I'll cover the balance on the other 2. We should not pass up this opportunity!!! And look who the seller is
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-PIECES-TR...939474?hash=item5d7242ced2:g:6lwAAOSwjKFZRKAc



After 'we' buy the power station, we'll buy these Tung Sauce. I say 'we' because from here on, it's joint venture, irrespective of our preference. That means we have to buy both 'Hugo 2' and 'Yggdrasil' (you hear that @hypnos1 ? ) and put it on the loaner program for all readers here to sample and give their opinion. Btw, those on the loaner program need to pay $200 as membership fee. @connieflyer  you're in charge of the loaner program.

Also on the loaner program are an upgraded Elise and Euforia, Tung Sol 6sn7gt BGRP and GEC 6as7g, Focal Utopia, Abyss AB-1266, that even grandma appreciates....


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> U and UT can share the other pair.



Hello??? There is no 'U'. There's just *'UT'*.


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> @Tunkejazz, let me save you a lot of money when I say go buy GEC 6080 and Sylvania 6sn7w. Pricey, yes, but you won't want to buy anything else I promise! So that's actually a lot of savings on tubes you'll never be listening to once you end up (eventually) buying these as I did!
> 
> I can hear E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, and I'm on Elise!


Yes, everything seems to point to GEC 6080....and I have the same experience as you: better go for the good tubes straight away.
Any good tube shop worth trying apart from ebay?


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> LORD, UT is back. he is back. Have to go......run.



King UT is OK but LORD UT gets blasphemous ..... please

Yes run...


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> I can hear E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, and I'm on Elise!



@hypnos1  these threads are in good hands. We can retire now. This guy is a legend.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Where were you a year and a half ago when I needed you?????????????



He was here on Santorini Island till he got suck into Head-Fi.


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Yes, everything seems to point to GEC 6080....and I have the same experience as you: better go for the good tubes straight away.
> Any good tube shop worth trying apart from ebay?



NO.... everything just points to GEC...   6080 is superfluous. ... it's just GEC.

Like this.

 

See how well it fits in the palm of your hand? No other tube fits so well.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jun 24, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> NO.... everything just points to GEC...   6080 is superfluous. ... it's just GEC.
> 
> Like this.
> 
> ...



xDDDD

But size does not matter, in fact I am probably more interested in the little brother (6080?) right next to your palm-filling monster in the first picture.
What is the difference, by the way? EDIT: Is it a GEC *6AS7G?*


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> If anybody wonders what that was:



Please Oskari, I was in a sombre mood all yesterday afternoon after listening to your videos..... that only went away after I listen to Taylor Swift and watch Miley Cyrus twerking.


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> xDDDD
> 
> But size does not matter, in fact I am probably more interested in the little brother (6080?) right next to your palm-filling monster in the first picture.
> What is the difference, by the way?



Omg do you not read all my posts? You're missing out Mr Tunkejazz.

Here, I shall refer you to my power tubes thesis.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...rt-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/

In particular, I shall quote UT ...... 

_GEC 6080 - ha a pretender to the throne, he almost succeeded but not quite. Might have the same GEC name but not really there compared to big brother GEC 6as7g. However at this level, you're comparing Lamborghini and Ferrari. For layman like me, I'll drive either one without complaining. Unfortunately I'm not a layman, so my vote is the GEC 6as7g._


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> But size does not matter,



I really do not know how to reply to this. I'm not even going to try.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> Omg do you not read all my posts? You're missing out Mr Tunkejazz.
> 
> Here, I shall refer you to my power tubes thesis.
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/
> ...


That is a hell of a bad ass big brother... 
Thanks for the link. 



UntilThen said:


> I really do not know how to reply to this. I'm not even going to try.



Yes, we better leave it as it is


----------



## pctazhp

I see. So now I'm financing a worldwide loaner program of any and every crazy idea UT comes up with. I'm retiring to Santorini Island - which BTW is where I lost my JVC video camera like the one in the first Back to the Future movie


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> That is a hell of a bad ass big brother...



Thank you. 'A man odd to know how to accept a compliment and how to give one too.' That's my quote.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I see. So now I'm financing a worldwide loaner program of any and every crazy idea UT comes up with. I'm retiring to Santorini Island - which BTW is where I lost my JVC video camera like the one in the first Back to the Future movie



If you ever doubt me again, don't. I want you to look at this picture and think about the words carefully.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Please Oskari, I was in a sombre mood all yesterday afternoon after listening to your videos..... that only went away after I listen to Taylor Swift and watch Miley Cyrus twerking.


I'm sorry I forgot the antidote:


Oskari said:


>


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

*RCA 6AS7G*

All right, let's get back on topic and that means either Euforia, Elise, tubes, headphones or DACs.....

Today I'm going to convince you that this is the best value power tube you can get for your OTL amp. Never mind that the amp in the picture is not Euforia. Just think of it as the Malice.

RCA 6as7g is the epitome of the qualities in a 6as7. Scale, grandeur, warmth. lushness, timbre, big bottom perfection, smooth out your HD800 and T1.

Remember there is a commonality between the RCA 6as7g and GEC 6as7g. One is made in America and the other made in United Kingdom. They both spot the designation 6as7. Grab a pair please, if you're a self respecting tube roller.

Ps.... remember they turn your HD800 into LCD2.2 



Omg, Malice sounds so good, I'm cringing.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> @hypnos1 Based on everything I've seen I think you and UT both call things as you hear them without a lot of bias. I think Schiit is going to be at London CamJam. Maybe you can listen to Yiggy if you have a chance and let us know what you think in comparison to Hugo2. Let the chips fall where they may - I always say.



Of course you're right, pct....I'm sure we would both be as impartial as is humanly possible...(but aren't we humans dreadfully flawed, lol?!!! ...hence my plea to Oskari!!! ...).

As for trying to achieve any kind of accurate, meaningful assessment at such venues as CanJam...extremely unlikely, I fear!!  Different gear/environment/ambient noise etc.etc....*no way Jose, alas!* Plus, I doubt the Chord stands are right next to Ssshhhh, and certainly won't be using identical setups! Plus, I don't intend carting my 24kg ASF3000 and Euforia + T1s from the East Coast across London to Westminster...not even for you wonderful guys, I'm afraid!!! The only reason I'm going at all is to meet up with Lukasz and family, plus swap notes with Acapella11 (who probably _will_ be able to assess the two DACs far better than I!), and hopefully other members I manage to recognise from past local meets.
However, I shall indeed try my best to get _some_ idea at least of their respective merits...wish me luck lol!!



Oskari said:


> If anybody wonders what that was:



Thanks once again O for the reminder...and pay no heed to those who have no soul!!!  ...



UntilThen said:


> After 'we' buy the power station, we'll buy these Tung Sauce. I say 'we' because from here on, it's joint venture, irrespective of our preference. That means we have to buy both 'Hugo 2' and 'Yggdrasil' (you hear that @hypnos1 ? ) and put it on the loaner program for all readers here to sample and give their opinion. Btw, those on the loaner program need to pay $200 as membership fee. @connieflyer  you're in charge of the loaner program.
> 
> Also on the loaner program are an upgraded Elise and Euforia, Tung Sol 6sn7gt BGRP and GEC 6as7g, Focal Utopia, Abyss AB-1266, that even grandma appreciates....



Hmmm UT...methinks it would need to be 2 *thousand* dollars membership lol!! But on second thoughts, with @connieflyer in charge, methinks Connor might just be getting a few diamond-studded collars for Christmas!!!...(lucky pooch!)...


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> As for trying to achieve any kind of accurate, meaningful assessment at such venues as CanJam...extremely unlikely, I fear!!



I agree 100%. For your info, at the last Sydney meet, I audition the Yggdrasil and Ragnorak combo with HD800    and   MrSpeaker Ether Flow C with Chord Hugo TT.

Now, I was not impressed with either BUT when I walk back to my setup with the humble NAD d1050, Euforia and Focal Utopia, I had the Xanadu moment.

However now in the confines of my executive chair and L-shaped desk in my Oval Office in the Blue Room, this setup left me gasping for breath.

Onkyo transport > Yggdrasil > Euforia > Sylvania 6sn7w + Gec 6as7g > HD800.

Powered by solar of course and running wireless.

Ps.... as I'm writing this and listening to Malice, I'm reminded that there ARE other alien lives out there.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks  for all the votes of confidence. I shall clear a space for all the in coming equipment, and Conner thanks you as well, he is now going to be the Musketeers security service.  Please be aware, he does not sleep with both eyes closed, and can wield my katana better than I .


----------



## connieflyer

Hmmm UT...methinks it would need to be 2 *thousand* dollars membership lol!! But on second thoughts, with @connieflyer in charge, methinks Connor might just be getting a few diamond-studded collars for Christmas!!!...(lucky pooch!)...[/QUOTE]

If he should still be around by then, the collar will be studded with Emeralds, diamonds are so ordinary!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Thanks  for all the votes of confidence. I shall clear a space for all the in coming equipment, and Conner thanks you as well, he is now going to be the Musketeers security service.  Please be aware, he does not sleep with both eyes closed, and can wield my katana better than I .



Ummmm .... not to burst your bubble. You were given that because you had no portfolio yet. Btw I might send Finn to help. 2 dogs is better than 1,


----------



## pctazhp (Jun 24, 2017)

Sorry I have missed all the pearls of wisdom that have been flowing for the past several hours. I have been occupied contemplating the foundation of truly great men while sitting in the theater watching Cars 3. The movie was somewhat over my head, but while thinking of greatness I realized that I merely had to look within. When I got out of the theater it was 115F and my protective circuit kicked in. I needed to find the least mentally challenging activity I could think of. Which is why I logged in here.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to provide my critique of the movie. It's like Ben Hur with a smiley face.


----------



## pctazhp

One great benefit of HeadFi is how much we can learn from others. I haven't been in a brick and mortars stereo store in years. I wasn't sure they even still existed. But I just realized there is a Focal dealer about 3 miles from where I live with a Utopia in stock. He also carries McIntosh, Audio Research and Wilson Speakers. Fortunately, I can learn from UT's recent visit to Addicted to Audio to avoid like a plague the area of Scottsdale where that dealer is located. Thank you UT


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> One great benefit of HeadFi is how much we can learn from others. I haven't been in a brick and mortars stereo store in years. I wasn't sure they even still existed. But I just realized there is a Focal dealer about 3 miles from where I live with a Utopia in stock. He also carries McIntosh, Audio Research and Wilson Speakers. Fortunately, I can learn from UT's recent visit to Addicted to Audio to avoid like a plague the area of Scottsdale where that dealer is located. Thank you UT



Mr PC, let me tell you this. One day in the not too distant future, I shall pay Wing of Minidisc.com.au in Chatswood a visit. I shall bring my Yggy, Euforia and HD800 along. 

The purpose of the visit is to audition Chord Hugo 2. I will make sure that I intentionally leave the left RCA cable unconnected.... 

Nah... I'll be an honest John. I want the truth and nothing but the tooth, whether the Hugo 2 is similar to Chord Dave although I have the faintest clue what Dave sounds like. Of course I want to know if it holds a candle to my mighty Yggdrasil. Remember nothing beats Yggdrasil or I will beat it with a club.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> The purpose of the visit is to audition Chord Hugo 2.



That's fun news. I can't imagine how anyone who has been following you and H1 recently who isn't curious what either of you would think comparing the two DACs. There is this persistent voice in the depths of my brain who keeps telling me that someday, some how, I will own a Yiggy - although I usually keep that voice pretty well caged most of the time. I think at a deeply philosophical and personal level it's my fear that I may be lying on my death bed with my greatest regret being that I never owned a Yiggy. I do try to keep my priorities in proper perspective.


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## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

If I have any pearls of wisdom left, this will be what I will advice you.

GET THE YGGDRASIL.

Angelo thinks he has heard everything. Well let me tell you he hasn't heard everything I'm hearing in Yggy and yet feel very comforting on the ears.

Yggy is taking it to the nether regions and I don't usually use such language.

Now it's deciding whether I go and play badminton or stay back for one more Pink Floyd 'Wish You Were Here'.


----------



## UntilThen

Pct, I think it's cheaper if you fly to London and listen to Hugo 2 then fly to Sydney to listen to Yggdrasil.... with almost identical setup.... almost I say. 

Then decide to buy both and live happily ever after.


----------



## UntilThen

Incredible how good Youtube sounds on my system now. Yggy transforms things.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 24, 2017)

Alright my body says I need the exercise. So I'll be executing this move in 30 mins time.....




followed by this


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Pct, I think it's cheaper if you fly to London and listen to Hugo 2 then fly to Sydney to listen to Yggdrasil.... with almost identical setup.... almost I say.
> 
> Then decide to buy both and live happily ever after.



Something about your math doesn't seem to add up, but I'm not really sure what it is. Anyway, I'm a difficult, cranky house guest, so that wouldn't work. BTW, even if you told me Hugo2 was much better than Yiggy, I'd still have my heart set on Yiggy. It's just kind of a thing with me.

Happy badminton))))


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Something about your math doesn't seem to add up, but I'm not really sure what it is. Anyway, I'm a difficult, cranky house guest, so that wouldn't work. BTW, even if you told me Hugo2 was much better than Yiggy, I'd still have my heart set on Yiggy. It's just kind of a thing with me.
> 
> Happy badminton))))



Hey that will make us twins. How good is that?

Welcome to Yggy fan club.


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Yes, everything seems to point to GEC 6080....and I have the same experience as you: better go for the good tubes straight away.
> Any good tube shop worth trying apart from ebay?


Had the same preoccupation for quite some time now myself. Langrex is one name that come up, although you must rid of yourself of any hope to catch a bargain. The prices are fair though, definitely on the fair side to what other professional sellers are asking for on eBay, They're also on eBay under the name "yitry" and you can see they have like 4digit numbers of positive feedback! So definitely a reliable seller, who I bought my Sylvania 6sn7wgt from.

Of course this doesn't mean you can't find good tunes on eBay. I got my GEC 6080 and Sylvania 6sn7w from private auctions and they're wonderful!


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Had the same preoccupation for quite some time now myself. Langrex is one name that come up, although you must rid of yourself of any hope to catch a bargain. The prices are fair though, definitely on the fair side to what other professional sellers are asking for on eBay, They're also on eBay under the name "yitry" and you can see they have like 4digit numbers of positive feedback! So definitely a reliable seller, who I bought my Sylvania 6sn7wgt from.
> 
> Of course this doesn't mean you can't find good tunes on eBay. I got my GEC 6080 and Sylvania 6sn7w from private auctions and they're wonderful!



Thanks for the info.
Apparently, I had bought a pair of Visseaux 6J5 from "yitry" some time ago for my Ember 
He only has one tube left in stock, but I found another seller with similar prices and he has pairs.


----------



## UntilThen

I bought so many tubes from yitry aka Langrex.

Tubes include Svetlana/Mazda EF86 and Mullard EF80 and Mullard EF86 for my La Figaro 339. ... and a pair of RCA 6080.

I would have bought the GEc 6as7g from Langrex too but fortunately Stavros still kept his last pair for me. I got it cheaper, newer and better spec, with original boxes too.

Speaking of which, it is in La Figaro 339 now. Just don't ask me how it sounds because I'm teary now.... and that's unusual because Clint Eastwood doesn't show any emotions.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 25, 2017)

The GEC 6as7g construction is the best I've seen of the 6as7 / 6080 power tubes. It's quality stuff. It's no ordinary tube, just looking at it and holding it in your hand. Even the Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates doesn't come close. The GEC 6080 by contrast, looks very ordinary.

Fortunately, the sound live up to the looks.... and more. I really wonder how many more NOS NIB pair of GEC 6as7g are left on this planet. Maybe the Queen has a warehouse full of them... I really hope that Buckingham Palace is stock full with it. Then King UT will march into it on his black stallion.


----------



## UntilThen

Btw I executed this shot in my badminton. It's the highlight of my afternoon game.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'd still have my heart set on Yiggy. It's just kind of a thing with me.



I think we should ask the moderator to change your name to Yggy.

It's Yggy by the way. Not Yiggy.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I twisted my neck doing this. Now the headphone is holding my head upright. Who would have known that a headphone is so useful.


----------



## UntilThen

That was me in the yellow outfit btw. Thanks for watching and give generously.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> I really wonder how many more NOS NIB pair of GEC 6as7g are left on this planet.



At least one more on sale...at 400 GBP a pair!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834...395121?hash=item489d1a59b1:g:OZAAAOSwhvFZGuC-


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> At least one more on sale...at 400 GBP a pair!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834...395121?hash=item489d1a59b1:g:OZAAAOSwhvFZGuC-



Mr Tunkejazz, I think you need to speak to your bank manager first. After you've spoken to him, speak to your psychiatrist. If your psychiatrist can't talk you out of buying the GEC, see you divorce lawyer and prepare for the worst. If after all that, you still manage to buy the GEC, then congrats..... you've attained nirvana despite the odds. Persistence will help you reach your end game.


----------



## UntilThen

The difference between a GEC 6as7g curved base and a square base is more than subtle. Curve base construction is better. The glass is smoother and the shape more streamline whereas the square base is rougher and more angular. I have not been able to verify if there's any difference in tone because I have only one square base. 

Suffice to say that they are both desirable and very expensive.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I am trying to find a cheaper alternative than those GEC 6080, but it is very hard to know that I am missing something better...
Then again, the same argument may apply to my headphones (HD650), DAC (Mimby, in the office/Naim at home), and transport (a cheap PC via USB).

 So far Tung-Sol 6080 look promising at 110 USD a pair. Any experience with those?


----------



## connieflyer

PCT If your weakness to spending money is a concern I will fly out and go with you to listen to the Utopia's, least I can do for a friend. I wonder if you bought a pair, they would sell you a second pair for your old friend at half price?  Hmmmmm


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> I am trying to find a cheaper alternative than those GEC 6080, but it is very hard to know that I am missing something better...
> Then again, the same argument may apply to my headphones (HD650), DAC (Mimby, in the office/Naim at home), and transport (a cheap PC via USB).
> 
> So far Tung-Sol 6080 look promising at 110 USD a pair. Any experience with those?



Need to be patient with tubes. I have not seen any Tung Sol 6080 for a while. They are not better than the premium tubes even though some say they are very good value. 

After having Elise for 1.5 years, then I started buying GEC 6080 and 6as7g. I waited for the right price on the GEC 6080. This seller from New Zealand has 6 pairs. He had them for sale initially for $250 per pair. No one bought it, so he drop it to $200. Still no one bought it. Then it came down to $180. That's when I made him an offer of $160. To my surprised, he accepted. I started talking about it in the thread and the next thing I know, all the other 5 pairs were gone in less than a day. At $160 a pair NOS NIB, it is a very good price for this day and age.

GEC 6as7g were hardly seen for a while. Then suddenly many appeared on ebay, all selling for ~$500 per pair. It wasn't moving fast. It's not going to at that price unless you get someone who's willing to buy it. It's all about timing for individuals. 

Then suddenly a seller from Australia listed a single GEC 6as7g square base for $80 buy out. I press the buy button without hesitation. He also listed a single Chatham 6080wb for $35. Again I press the button like a pro. Such offers are few and far in between.


----------



## UntilThen

I think I am done buying tubes. I can sense it. It's like when I was into Orchids. I start out with one pot. Then the interest bite and every orchid show, I'd be there and I'd take my wife along. I even join an Orchid society. Slowly the pots grew and I started to build a green house.  That's when you know you're getting serious. Before I knew it, my orchid collections grew to $3000. For 3 years, flowers bloom non stop. It was amazing. I even entered the Orchid show competition and won for one of my rare variety. Got the winning ribbon and cert and feel very proud. 

Then I went to Canberra to work. I didn't know I was going there for 5 years. It was an initial 6 months contract. So when I was there, no one look after my price orchids. They died... gradually. A pity but I was doing well in the capital so my hobby turn to car stereo and cycling. 

Long story but here I am.... with too many tubes and too many tube amps and 3 headphones. If you told me this 5 years ago, I would never believe you. However, the sound from my system now is the best I've heard. Even better than the $10000 car stereo system that I had. Car stereo is really wasted money. Seriously why would anyone want to sound proof their car to make it sound really good? Well I was one of them. I had my fun and it was good. Serve me for that spell. All the hard work, I needed some sweetener.

Yup back to Head-fi... yes it was good. It would take a lot more money to get this level of enjoyment in a good home stereo system. I am at the high end of head-fi now. Well the sound I hear is high end. To me, high end doesn't mean high end in price. That's for Bill Gates. High end for me is a great sound from your setup and I got it even without Utopia.

Yggy seems a luxury at $2299 but seriously it's a game changer for me. It was my education in head-fi first hand. I didn't know that a DAC would wrought about so much difference in the head-fi chain. I can't believe this but I would actually ask each of you to consider this DAC or Gumby, even at this price. It is that good.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> PCT If your weakness to spending money is a concern I will fly out and go with you to listen to the Utopia's, least I can do for a friend. I wonder if you bought a pair, they would sell you a second pair for your old friend at half price?  Hmmmmm



I will threaten to sue him for elder abuse, and he will give us both free Utopia. But you have to take me to my favorite Mexican restaurant. We will drink pitchers of margaritas to celebrate


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I think we should ask the moderator to change your name to Yggy.
> 
> It's Yggy by the way. Not Yiggy.



I would change my name to ManInTheMoon - anything is better than the stupid name I chose when I signed up here


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> _I think I am done buying tubes._ I can sense it. It's like when I was into Orchids. I start out with one pot. Then the interest bite and every orchid show, I'd be there and I'd take my wife along. I even join an Orchid society. Slowly the pots grew and I started to build a green house.  That's when you know you're getting serious. Before I knew it, my orchid collections grew to $3000. For 3 years, flowers bloom non stop. It was amazing. I even entered the Orchid show competition and won for one of my rare variety. Got the winning ribbon and cert and feel very proud.
> 
> Then I went to Canberra to work. I didn't know I was going there for 5 years. It was an initial 6 months contract. So when I was there, no one look after my price orchids. They died... gradually. A pity but I was doing well in the capital so my hobby turn to car stereo and cycling.
> 
> ...



We will change your mind for sure. Do you know how big is the box the NOS WE 421A ships in?


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> I think I am done buying tubes.



There was a joke when I was a kid. It went like this. My father was a broken record, my mother was a broken record. But I'm not a broken record, broken record, broken record, broken record..........


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> We will change your mind for sure. Do you know how big is the box the NOS WE 421A ships in?



Let me see..... a NOS pair of WE 421A will cost $1000 - easily. So no, no and just NO, attmci. By the way each time I reply to you, I thought I'm speaking to Atthilla the hun. 

Just sell me the box. I am not interested in the WE 421A tubes. That way I can put the Chinese 6N13P tube in it and brag that I have the WE 421A. 

NOW, this is what you want. The mother of all power tube. It saws, it sings.... wait a minute - singing is the wrong word. It screeched, it yells, it thunders !!!!


----------



## UntilThen

I think I am done buying tubes seriously.... what I am listening to now makes me cringe. It's the 'thing'....


----------



## UntilThen

6N13P even comes in metal base. It might not be so bad after all..... 

Atthilla, do you think this is better than the WE 421A?


----------



## UntilThen

I'm getting quoted in 4 or 5 Head-Fi threads.... this is getting ridiculous. What happen to privacy? Huh LawEar? Can you do something about this intrusion of privacy?

Oh gosh, I just realised I have given you a terrible name - LawEar.


----------



## pctazhp

"Privacy is for those who do not walk around naked all day" - LawEar, 6/25/2017


----------



## UntilThen

Euforia and La Figaro. Stunning sounding amps and I'm glad they are both mine. It's really hard to pick a favourite here because I really like both very much.

I have both connected to Yggy's twin RCA outputs and they have the best tubes I can pair them with.


----------



## angpsi (Jun 26, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Euforia and La Figaro. Stunning sounding amps and I'm glad they are both mine. It's really hard to pick a favourite here because I really like both very much.
> 
> I have both connected to Yggy's twin RCA outputs and they have the best tubes I can pair them with.


Your son let the LaFigaro go for good? Looks like it's gonna drive you crazy! How can you possibly live with three mistresses? _And_ a couple of cool bikes? _And _Badminton? Do you even have time to water the orchids, or did you let them go?


----------



## UntilThen

He didn't let La Figaro go. Rather I did a swap of Elise and Figaro with him. Let's just say that I 'borrow' back my Figaro. So 2 mistresses and a maid now. The maid is DV336se lol. 

Cool bikes? They are in the garage. Badminton is to get my cardio workout. I love the game but I loose out to young girls. It's quite ego bursting. However these girls are university team players. What do you expect?

Orchids? Sigh... only a few varieties left. However they grow on my rock wall now for that natural look. Simply stunning. I'll take a picture when I get a chance on the weekend.

Yeah the sound from my amps are crazily good now. I'm so over describing what I hear. I have no more adjectives left. Like a broken record, I'd just describe it as very good, better than good, you better believe it good, better than ecstasy good, etc, etc.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Umm, I just replaced the default PSVANE tubes with a pair of Ken-Rad 6SN7GT, and I like what I am hearing, a little bit more bass and fuller mids.
These seem to have much better synergy with the Svetlanas and HD650 combo.

I got the chance to get a new pair of GEC 6080 at 240 GBP + shipping, or a used pair at 80% for 150 GBP + shipping.
Hard choice...


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Umm, I just replaced the default PSVANE tubes with a pair of Ken-Rad 6SN7GT, and I like what I am hearing, a little bit more bass and fuller mids.
> These seem to have much better synergy with the Svetlanas and HD650 combo.
> 
> I got the chance to get a new pair of GEC 6080 at 240 GBP + shipping, or a used pair at 80% for 150 GBP + shipping.
> Hard choice...


Definitely go for the 100%, at least it'll take it off your mind that you're not getting 100% performance!  Jokes aside, these are so good you'll want them to last a lifetime. But since you're looking for a warmer tone for less money, maybe you should consider what I'm listening to right now, namely, the Tung_Sol 5998 combined with the Tung-Sol 6sn7 (no suffix, just plain 6sn7). I'm listening to them right now and they'll give you a very energetic, warm and jazzy sound signature!

Take a look at our recent posts over at the Elise thread, from here, onward. Sorry if I'm messing with your present itch to hit the "buy now" button—in which case, IMHO just buy all of them and be done with it!


----------



## UntilThen

I really dont know how to advise you on purchase of tubes. When I started I wouldnt think that one day I will get almost all the choice power tubes.

When I bought TS 5998, I told myself that would be it because they are a cool $239.

Then the other tubes followed and I buy mostly NOS....so Bill Gates price.

Do I regret buying these tubes? No never not a chance. They enhanced my listening experience by 30% at least...probably more.


----------



## angpsi (Jun 26, 2017)

These black plates are still available, landing right in the middle at GBP185: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...-Plate-Tung-Sol-USA-Valve-Tubes-/112430484058


----------



## UntilThen

These are what I consider essential power tubes:-

Gec 6as7g
Bendix 6080wb
Gec 6080
Ts 5998

Ts 7236
Chatham 6as7g
Mullard 6080
RCA 6as7g

Which is nearly all the good ones lol.


----------



## UntilThen

The best thing for me is that all these power tubes are useable in both Euforia and Figaro.


----------



## UntilThen

I use Ts 5998 a lot when I first got it but now I am using the other power tubes more.

Gec 6as7g is very good. I cant stop using it. I use to think its hype but these tubes are indeed special.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Actually, I tested again using a pair of Sylvania Bad Boys as drivers and somehow they sound much better than last week.
Did I not let them warm up sufficiently last time? 


angpsi said:


> Definitely go for the 100%, at least it'll take it off your mind that you're not getting 100% performance!  Jokes aside, these are so good you'll want them to last a lifetime. But since you're looking for a warmer tone for less money, maybe you should consider what I'm listening to right now, namely, the Tung_Sol 5998 combined with the Tung-Sol 6sn7 (no suffix, just plain 6sn7). I'm listening to them right now and they'll give you a very energetic, warm and jazzy sound signature!
> 
> Take a look at our recent posts over at the Elise thread, from here, onward. Sorry if I'm messing with your present itch to hit the "buy now" button—in which case, IMHO just buy all of them and be done with it!



Yes, I guess I will go for the new ones. The price difference is not that large...
Thanks for the heads up on the TS 5998!

UT: thanks for the list!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> These are what I consider essential power tubes:-
> 
> Gec 6as7g
> Bendix 6080wb
> ...



Turns out that I actually have all of the above except for the GEC6080, but I only really like the tubes on the first list. Haven't listened to the RCAs in ages - will give them another listen.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Also found these Haltron (supossedly made by GEC) 6080. Do they look to you like the real thing?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6080-6AS7...%3Ae58f636815c0aa411d39ffc2fffb4966%7Ciid%3A7


----------



## myphone

Tunkejazz said:


> Also found these Haltron (supossedly made by GEC) 6080. Do they look to you like the real thing?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6080-6AS7G-GEC-dc-SF-Z-made-in-U-K-Tested-Amplitrex-AT1000-1574004-7-/191847064498?hash=item2caaf9e3b2:g:fBUAAOSwOVpXZOYA&_trkparms=pageci%3A44a0e355-5a99-11e7-aef3-74dbd180f705%7Cparentrq%3Ae58f636815c0aa411d39ffc2fffb4966%7Ciid%3A7



I bought a pair Haltron 6080, made by GEC from different vendor, brentjes. Audiotube.com. Look the same


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> I bought a pair Haltron 6080, made by GEC from different vendor, brentjes. Audiotube.com. Look the same



The Haltron 6080 should be the same DNA as the GEC 6080, just different branding.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Turns out that I actually have all of the above except for the GEC6080, but I only really like the tubes on the first list. Haven't listened to the RCAs in ages - will give them another listen.



Hold that thought a second. I'll expand on the power tubes in the Elise thread as I don't want to jump all over the place. Since I started an initial synopsis on the power tubes there, I'll prepare a chart now with further add ons.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jun 26, 2017)

myphone said:


> I bought a pair Haltron 6080, made by GEC from different vendor, brentjes. Audiotube.com. Look the same





UntilThen said:


> The Haltron 6080 should be the same DNA as the GEC 6080, just different branding.



Thanks guys for your valuable comments, just placed an order for a pair of those Haltron, they are almost £100 cheaper and testing NOS.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> We will change your mind for sure. Do you know how big is the box the NOS WE 421A ships in?



Do you know how big the GEC 6as7g box is? Next to it is the GEC 6080 box.

Now show me your WE 421A tubes and box.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 26, 2017)

Alright @attmci  why do you have to tell me about WE 421A?

This is as balls bursting price as my GEC 6as7g...... and there is no way I am buying it. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-ELE...193523?hash=item1c8688c0f3:g:5vcAAOSwhQhYxlVz


ooooooo ..... comes in original boxes and I'm a collector of boxes....


----------



## attmci (Jun 26, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Do you know how big the GEC 6as7g box is? Next to it is the GEC 6080 box.
> 
> Now show me your WE 421A tubes and box.



I am cheap.  Don't have any of these fancy tubes.

Can you lend me your extra GEC 6as7g? I'll take good care of it.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Alright @attmci  why do you have to tell me about WE 421A?
> 
> This is as balls bursting price as my GEC 6as7g...... and there is no way I am buying it.
> 
> ...


Fake news. LOL

Condition: *NOS, never use,* in good condition (tube tester TV-7D/U), *minimum good is 40* on this tester. Also, come with original boxes.
Test results: 
Tube 1 :* 49/41* ( the tube is dated 26th week of 1960)

Tube 2 : *41/42* (the tube is dates 26th week of 1966)


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> I am cheap.  Don't have any of these fancy tubes.
> 
> Can you lend me your extra GEC 6as7g? I'll take good care of it.



Please dont say you are cheap. The last time I bail you out from jail cost me a fortune.

As for the Gec 6as7g, I wont even lend it to my wife.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Please dont say you are cheap. The last time I bail you out from jail cost me a fortune.
> 
> As for the Gec 6as7g, I wont even lend it to my wife.


Hi attmci,

The word is not cheap, it is FRUGAL.

Two days left of Massdrop's HD650 deal for $250. Out of 7500 units, 3926 have been sold. (U really believe that?) Can't make up my mind, north pole/south pole....Maybe if I wait long enough, they will be gone? And last time they were $200 for the same thing.....
Decisions, decisions.....


----------



## UntilThen

If I didnt have HD650, I would buy it.

It's a comforting headphone and very relaxing.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I agree with UT...and don't forget that HD650 has one of the most flat frequency responses you will find on the market!
Not as resolving as HD800 but "tonally" is is probably less coloured, at least in my opinion, of course others might think differently!


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> I agree with UT...and don't forget that HD650 has one of the most flat frequency responses you will find on the market!
> Not as resolving as HD800 but "tonally" is is probably less coloured, at least in my opinion, of course others might think differently!



Make no mistake. HD650 is coloured but in a good way. 

A complete system that is colourless must be the most boring system ever. Can you imagine if all your system chain is neutral. It's like seeing a picture in black and white.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> The word is not cheap, it is FRUGAL.
> 
> ...



If I had to start again, I'll buy just one headphone. That would be HD800. This Sennheiser is sounding so good with both Euforia and La Figaro now, fed by Yggy. I can use it for any genre and feel comfortable in it. I don't even feel the need to mod it like most do. It's a natural fit for my taste. At no time do I feel it is too bright or clinical. It is revealing and sweet sounding, at the same time, it's full of natural goodness. 

I think Sennheiser nail it, when they produce this iconic headphone in 2009. If I listen to others impressions, I would never buy this headphone because almost 90% say that this is only good for classical and jazz. What bullocks. To my ears, HD800 can do anything you want to hear.... and then some.... 

I do firmly believe that HD800 needs to be paired with a sweet euphonic sounding tube amp. When I made this comment in the HD800 thread, I get a reply that that's like fixing a defect with a coloured amp. Seriously? Tube amp lovers will tell you, that's synergy. There's no defect here.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Argg, the generous deep bass of these Ken-Rad's is so addictive!


----------



## connieflyer

Have to agree with you Tunkejazz, those K-R's have some of the best bass out there.  Have tried them with Euforia stock power tubes, TS 5998,5998a,and the EL12n and they are a very good sounding tube.  As much as I like them, the 1948 rca 6sn7gt grey glass, are more satisfying for me.  Looking for a spare pair. Coupled with the gec 6080 it is an incredible combo. With ts5998 just a hair less that the gec, but surprisingly the stock power tubes with the rca sound almost as good as the gec. After hearing this combo I have suspended my search for gec6as7's. Can not see another $600 making it that much better. Have Sylvania Jan's incomimng from Yittry and I will see which to me is better. This morning trying the stock psvane with stock power tubes and it is pretty good, not up to the rca's though.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Have to agree with you Tunkejazz, those K-R's have some of the best bass out there.  Have tried them with Euforia stock power tubes, TS 5998,5998a,and the EL12n and they are a very good sounding tube.  As much as I like them, the 1948 rca 6sn7gt grey glass, are more satisfying for me.  Looking for a spare pair. Coupled with the gec 6080 it is an incredible combo. With ts5998 just a hair less that the gec, but surprisingly the stock power tubes with the rca sound almost as good as the gec. After hearing this combo I have suspended my search for gec6as7's. Can not see another $600 making it that much better. Have Sylvania Jan's incomimng from Yittry and I will see which to me is better. This morning trying the stock psvane with stock power tubes and it is pretty good, not up to the rca's though.



I like my GEC 6080 better than GEC 6AS7G so I don't think they are worth the current price. But that's just me. f'm not the expert here )))


----------



## mordy

Hey - wait a second! Here is the fine print of the Massdrop HD650:

All orders will be shipped by Massdrop. Domestic orders are expected to arrive by December 25.

Estimated ship date is *Dec 18, 2017*.

And this: An "updated" 6' cable instead of 10' .

I think I'll look for a good buy on the Senns......


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hey - wait a second! Here is the fine print of the Massdrop HD650:
> 
> All orders will be shipped by Massdrop. Domestic orders are expected to arrive by December 25.
> 
> ...




I got mine for 190 GBP used only once according to the seller, he did not like the fit.
They were in pristine condition and I have seen quite some in similar shape in the sales section.


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> I got mine for 190 GBP used only once according to the seller, he did not like the fit.
> They were in pristine condition and I have seen quite some in similar shape in the sales section.



This is around $243 today. A new pair on Amazon is $316 today.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jun 27, 2017)

Yes, I think overall I got a good price given that I am placed in Sweden. Local shops are charging approx. 370 USD for a new set here (3190 SEK).

I got mine in January this year, but I was very picky about the "almost new" condition.

PS: I have original Senns, not massdrop. I think I was not very clear in my previous post.


----------



## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> Have to agree with you Tunkejazz, those K-R's have some of the best bass out there.  Have tried them with Euforia stock power tubes, TS 5998,5998a,and the EL12n and they are a very good sounding tube.  As much as I like them, the 1948 rca 6sn7gt grey glass, are more satisfying for me.  Looking for a spare pair. Coupled with the gec 6080 it is an incredible combo. With ts5998 just a hair less that the gec, but surprisingly the stock power tubes with the rca sound almost as good as the gec. After hearing this combo I have suspended my search for gec6as7's. Can not see another $600 making it that much better. Have Sylvania Jan's incomimng from Yittry and I will see which to me is better. This morning trying the stock psvane with stock power tubes and it is pretty good, not up to the rca's though.



Thanks CF, I will wait until I get the GEC, but I will keep an eye on prices on ebay for a pair of RCA. It is a bit annoying that I bought many single tubes for my Ember. I wish I had gone for pairs!


----------



## connieflyer

I know what you mean, with the Ember had a lot of tubes, and when I sold it did so as a package with all the tubes.  I did the same thing with the Elise was not thinking clearly at all, at the time, tubes were worth more than the amp. But very happy with the Euforia and a selection of tubes that really make this sound absolutely wonderful, especially pleasing is the way the Euforia improves the sound with the Senn 800 compared to the Elise. I am glad I upgraded to the new amp, well worth the investment. I am pretty sure this will be the last tube amp I buy.  I had two pair of the Senn 650 liked the first one so well, when they went on great one hour sale at amazon bought the second pair "just in case"!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I like my GEC 6080 better than GEC 6AS7G so I don't think they are worth the current price. But that's just me. f'm not the expert here )))



Everything needs to be taken in context. If you say that you like your GEC 6080 better than GEC 6as7g, we have to know what headphone you're using and what you're having for breakfast this morning. What you eat affects your hearing preference. Don't believe me?  Try eating some chilli or tomato sauce. Then repeat the experiment and tell me which GEC you like.

Well, you're using HD800S, a headphone that is more textured than it's original brother, the HD800. 

So someone with a HD800 (leaner tone) will come along and say that they like the GEC 6as7g better than the GEC 6080 ..... and that someone would be me. 

So who is correct and who is the expert here? You could say that both are correct and both are experts..... or both are noobs.   It's just how you look at it.


----------



## connieflyer

I have the 800 also, so please send my your gec 6as7g and I will compare it to the 6080!!!!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Have to agree with you Tunkejazz, those K-R's have some of the best bass out there.  Have tried them with Euforia stock power tubes, TS 5998,5998a,and the EL12n and they are a very good sounding tube.  As much as I like them, the 1948 rca 6sn7gt grey glass, are more satisfying for me.  Looking for a spare pair. Coupled with the gec 6080 it is an incredible combo. With ts5998 just a hair less that the gec, but surprisingly the stock power tubes with the rca sound almost as good as the gec. After hearing this combo I have suspended my search for gec6as7's. Can not see another $600 making it that much better. Have Sylvania Jan's incomimng from Yittry and I will see which to me is better. This morning trying the stock psvane with stock power tubes and it is pretty good, not up to the rca's though.



I have to dissect this statement from my friend CF. Mind you, he's mostly correct in what he says here.... mostly. Why did I say mostly? Let me explain.

This is RCA 6sn7gt grey glass or as it's more commonly call, smoked glass. So picture here so everyone knows we are talking about the same tube.

 

This tube sounds smokey... now you know why it's call smokey. Well not just smokey but warm and lush as well. Hang on a second. I'm not trying to ridicule this tube. In fact, I like it's attributes. I like this for 'blues' or anytime I want a more relaxed, chill out tone. This is not Brazilian samba. You need to look elsewhere for that.

This RCA with GEC 6080 will sound lovely with HD800. Swap in the TS 5998, it will also sound lovely on the HD800. Notice I say HD800. I have no HD800S to make a direct comparison, even though I have heard the HD800S at a meet 2 years ago. ...... 2 years ago is memory lost and forgotten.

So what will happen when you swap in the GEC 6as7g as power tubes? Hehehe, I don't want to tease the citizens here anymore. Let me just say that it's wrong, that the GEC 6as7g sounds so special on my Elise, Euforia and..... wait for it..... my La Figaro 339..... and wait for it..... my microwave.... (ok ignore the microwave PLEASE) ...... and at the same time there are so few in supply and so BLOOD SUCKING expensive. So I won't be promoting this tube anymore. I will just say it's the most awful and wrecked sounding tubes. So forget about it. Save your $500 and send them to me to further my Head-Fi expansion.

Thanks for listening.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 27, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> I have the 800 also, so please send my your gec 6as7g and I will compare it to the 6080!!!!



You know Don.... sorry I have to call you Don because you are a very special friend to me. No sarcasm here. Just the plain simple to goodness UT here.

I have never seen you before except that young photo you send me of a very handsome man sometime ago.... makes me kinda envious I don't have that moustache !!!

Anyway as I was saying.... I have been thinking very hard these last few days...... I have that extra GEC 6as7g with the square base. Believe me, even though the seller says that it's lightly used, to my eyes and ears, they look and sound almost NOS.

Like I say, you have been a very special friend to me.... the day you wrote to me and say that you like my jokes and ramblings here so much that you are going to send me some of your best vinyls ..... and send you did. You send me a part of the best YOU. That touched me. It did. It touched me more than any of my gear here. It touched me more than my Euforia. It touched me more than my HD800. It even touched me more than my Yggdrasil. When I told my family that a Mr Don from Michigan send me 40 plus of his best LPs, they told me 'I must have done something right... or touched him'.

SO.... I am going to give you a part of the best ME. I know it's not much but still it's a part of the best ME .... and trust me, that is a LOT. 

Alright UT, cut the crap and get to the point.

Don, I'm going to send you the single nearly new GEC 6as7g, postage on me, as a gift. You can't say no alright? If you do, I will come to Michigan and beat you with a club.

In all this, I remember what my Master 'Wu Kai' ... remember Mr Tortoise?  ... well he said... 'The more you have.... the less you have'. So I am giving you one... ok just one.... not my jewels pair of GEC 6as7g curved base, mother of pearl, best in the kingdom tubes.

So with that one GEC 6as7g square base you can buy another one yourself. Like this one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CV252...647609?hash=item3d3b861379:g:XLoAAOSw~y9ZHYjO

.... and enjoy the magic of GEC 6as7g.

With all my love and humble gratitude,
UT


----------



## UntilThen

Oh dear... did I upset him? He's gone offline....


----------



## angpsi (Jun 27, 2017)

Wow, I'm really touched by the overwhelming flow of emotion here (actually I am, jokes aside)! So any of you guys send me your Euforias, an Yggy, a Gumby, or a Bimby, and one pair of precious GEC 6as7g (I'll take round base or square base with equal gratitude) and see if my HD600 turns into an HD800!


----------



## angpsi (Jun 27, 2017)

On a different note, I just sold my Olympus XZ1 point and shoot through an auction to a guy in Poland. He tells me his wife was enamored with it since last year and he wanted to give it to her as a gift for her birthday. He asked me whether the package would make it to his hands before July 10 because they want to take it with them on their vacation in... Greece! Now that's what I call a karmic coincidence!


----------



## UntilThen

Hahaha Angelo that's more than coincidence.

Let me tell you this is best thread ever. The most dramas the most emotions the most tubes the most dacs the most headphones the most youtube videos the most one liners the most jokes... good or bad.


----------



## connieflyer

You did not upset me old friend. I am honored that you would think of me in such terms. If I could give you something that would be more pleasing for you I would but of course my mustache won't come off! I could not decline your generous gift for the threat of physical violence when I know I could no longer outrun you overwhelms my senses. Therefore I will do the gracious and honorable thing and bow to you in the direction from which it came. I was very pleased that you use those vinyls and got use out of them and some enjoyment as well. I got a real kik out of it when you would play an album and show the album in your post. enjoyment of music is a universal language that more people should become involved with touches the soul and reaches the heart like words spoken from a dictionary could never do. I better leave this before it becomes a new revelation for the followers of head-fi. Thank you so much for your generous gift and especially the thoughts and praise from yourself


----------



## UntilThen

I will send the Gec 6as7g square base as soon as I am able.

CF dont thank me. The pleasure's all mine. Friends just need to look each other in the eyes and see the appreciations there....and believe me I can see your eyes from Sydney.


----------



## UntilThen

An interesting article on pentodes, triodes and 'fake' triodes.

http://www.decware.com/paper16.htm


----------



## connieflyer

The Sylvania Jan 6sn7gt's just got here from Yittry so went and plugged them in with the gec 6080 and even though new tubes, fantastic sound.  Going to try these for a day or two and then try the EL11 and EL12N again. Need to buy a few more Euforia's hook all the headphone jacks into a rotary selector and plug in the Senn's and then could switch back and forth, no memory lose, (okay @pctzahp) I know what you were going to say,so say it and get it over with!


----------



## pctazhp (Jun 29, 2017)

Now what would possibly make you think a charming guy like me would ever say anything derogatory about such a gentleman as you???  Anyway, I've taken loss of my senses - I mean I have cleansed my mind of all opinion - so this is just a phantom post. BOO HA HA


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## connieflyer

Me thinks the heat has finally gotten to you, time to cool off, maybe on an Arctic cruise!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Me thinks the heat has finally gotten to you, time to cool off, maybe on an Arctic cruise!



I'm a land lubber. No sea legs. I'm soon cruisin' to San Diego across the Shifting Sands. Of course, I'll be thinking of you and all the gang while performing my Beach Boy imitation for my adoring California fans.


----------



## pctazhp

Ha))) I finally found the shifting sands song I was actually looking for:



Everything sounding so wonderful today with Sylvania 6SN7-WGT/TS5998


----------



## connieflyer

Enjoy your trip PCT just watch out for forest fires


----------



## pctazhp

For some reason all of the "excitement" has been on the Elise thread lately. Is anyone home here????

Currently I'm suffering bulb withdrawal anxiety because this time tomorrow I'll be sitting on the beach in San Diego and will be for 3 days. Someone told me that OTLs are not allowed on the beach there. So just "a few more hours, that's all the time I've got" (anyone know where that's from?) to listen. I'm using that time right now to listen to the Moody Blues "Days of Future Past" on Tidal HD, and it reminds me for the umpteenth time how truly special Euforia is. Can it possibly get any better than this????


----------



## connieflyer

It can get better, but you need a cooler climate to tell! Good to know that there won't be any sand in your amp! That would chaff!


----------



## pctazhp

Glad to see you are here CF)))  This is my parting shot for a few days. Best I could come up with right now))))


----------



## connieflyer

I downloaded Days of Future Past from Hdtracks and play it often.  Quite a group, still like most of what they recorded. Every now and then I will have a Moody's night and play them for a few hours straight.  Sue loved them, and had a chance to go to one of their concerts locally. She was thrilled. I could not go, could not get a replacement for me for work. Bummer.


----------



## Lord Raven

Please welcome bookshelf speakers by Focal  Looks like I need a home audio amplifier by Feliks-Audio rather than Euforia.

I am mind blown right now, Edifier to Focal. It is like Elise to Euforia jump. What a great mess that I have got into, I need to move into a bigger room.


----------



## UntilThen

My weekend has just began after some work on a Sat morning.

So after I am rested, had my massage and listen to some soothing symphonies, I will work on my 8000 posts.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Everything sounding so wonderful today with Sylvania 6SN7-WGT/TS5998



So you're liking your TS 5998 now which you didn't like before. Just goes to show that the love of which tubes is closely linked to the seasons.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> So you're liking your TS 5998 now which you didn't like before. Just goes to show that the love of which tubes is closely linked to the seasons.



Tis the season for the beach, which is where I'm off to


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Tis the season for the beach, which is where I'm off to



Off to the beach? It's about 7 degrees centigrade here. I'm hugging Euforia, La Figaro and myself for warmth.


----------



## connieflyer

Yes, but it is F° where he is going!


----------



## Tunkejazz

I have been looking a bit around on eBay. Has anyone tried Ken-Rad 6080?


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> I have been looking a bit around on eBay. Has anyone tried Ken-Rad 6080?



Can you link it or a picture of it.


----------



## Tunkejazz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-6AS7G-...093743?hash=item2caafa55ef:g:NLoAAOSwgApXDL7~


----------



## UntilThen

Looks interesting and genuine. It's from India so I guess great with Bollywood songs. Since the price is cheap why don't you try it and let us know.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Yeah, maybe I will do it. So far I have liked everything I head from Ken Rad in different tube types.
The same seller also has a pair of Telefunken 6080. I read that there are many fake ones around, but not all (?).


----------



## Oskari

Tunkejazz said:


> The same seller also has a pair of Telefunken 6080. I read that there are many fake ones around, but not all (?).


There are 6080s made by Tfk and there are GE relabels. Relabeled does not equal fake but it is not the real thing either.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Are the original Telefunken 6080 any good? I don't want to pull the trigger on any more tubes now, but I am asking just out of curiosity. 
I could not find much around about those Telefunken 6080.

When I get the KR 6080 and GEC 6080 then I can play a bit with different combos of driver and power tubes. I have to admit that even the PSVANE are quite good. 
A bit lighter bass/mids than ken-rad 6SN7GT but they sound very articulate, and they really shine with acoustic music in my opinion.


----------



## Oskari

Tunkejazz said:


> Are the original Telefunken 6080 any good?


I have no experience with them.


----------



## aqsw

I remember back in the "old days" of the Elise thread. Everybody was saying the fotons were absolute crap. I had 6 of them, and thought they sounded fine. Funny how everything changes.
Good to see UT not leaving. Although he is very strong in his beliefs (even though we may not all agree) he is very valuable ,. He is one of the best when describing what a certain tube is capable of doing musically.


----------



## UntilThen

aqsw said:


> I remember back in the "old days" of the Elise thread. Everybody was saying the fotons were absolute crap. I had 6 of them, and thought they sounded fine. Funny how everything changes.
> Good to see UT not leaving. Although he is very strong in his beliefs (even though we may not all agree) he is very valuable ,. He is one of the best when describing what a certain tube is capable of doing musically.



Please AQ, with these kind of praises, my cycling helmet won't fit my head anymore. The yardstick I adopt in evaluating tubes are from a Western movie. It's either good, bad or ugly and you know who is the last man standing after that 3 way fire fight.

As for me being valuable, I know that and my cavoodle knows that. Finn wags his tail like a happy pup every night he sees me coming home. A dog's a man's best friend I tell you.

You'll be rich... I mean richer as you are already rich AQ !!! with the Fotons price climbing steadily on the stock exchange.


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## aqsw (Jul 1, 2017)

Just listening to an oldie but goodie on Tidal.

Check out the album.

Dave Mason. Alone Together!

Never heard it sound this good before. The Euforia and Elear is a majical  pairing


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## aqsw (Jul 1, 2017)

If anybody knows about the horrendous cables on the elear, I bought a 1.5 meter cable from Hivemind cables. Called a silver truthseeker. These things are so light and flexible.

As I sit about two feet from my amp they are perfect. I think they sound much better, but that is a debate I also don't want to get into. I bought a balanced connection, since I have a pigtail. Just in case I ever go back to balanced. I doubt  it though.
I am very happy with my purchase.


----------



## myphone

Have been listening Euforia with HD650 this week. HD650 definitely needs more neutral tube combination (than HD800). 

GEC6080 and Sylvania 6sn7WGT combination works great with HD650. Richness, resolution and openness are spot on. 

Other sylvania 6sn7 GT/vt231 are a bit too warm.


----------



## UntilThen

myphone said:


> Have been listening Euforia with HD650 this week. HD650 definitely needs more neutral tube combination (than HD800).
> 
> GEC6080 and Sylvania 6sn7WGT combination works great with HD650. Richness, resolution and openness are spot on.
> 
> Other sylvania 6sn7 GT/vt231 are a bit too warm.



Correct. That's what I have been telling @pctazhp  about his HD800S.... needing a more neutral sounding tube combination. However different ears can also mean different opinions.... and different DACs, source, nuclear power station vs conventional power station and Arizona air vs Sydney air.


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-6AS7G-...093743?hash=item2caafa55ef:g:NLoAAOSwgApXDL7~


Hi Tunkejazz,

Those Ken-Rad 6080 tubes say 62-35 on them -  August 1962. Ken-Rad was bought by GE much before that (in 1945) so it seems that those 6080 tubes were made by GE.


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> 
> Those Ken-Rad 6080 tubes say 62-35 on them -  August 1962. Ken-Rad was bought by GE much before that (in 1945) so it seems that those 6080 tubes were made by GE.


Well...in that case maybe I have ordered something not very interesting... the construction seems different compared to most GEs available on ebay, maybe there is some hope the sound is different too.


----------



## Tim Le

Hah! Found you guys


----------



## Tunkejazz

...they do look sadly similar to RCA 6080 though.


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## Oskari (Jul 2, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> ...they do look sadly similar to RCA 6080 though.


Don't lose hope yet. Listen and see if you like them. At least you'll have a pair of K-R-branded 6080s. That's something many people won't have.  (Yes, they are K-R, not Ken-Rad.)


----------



## attmci

Oskari said:


> Don't lose hope yet. Listen and see if you like them. At least you'll have a pair of K-R-branded 6080s. That's something many people won't have.  (Yes, they are K-R, not Ken-Rad.)


Too bad............K-R///////////#(*$*&$&&$&$&(#)#)@)__)#


----------



## Tunkejazz

I managed to cancel the order for the K-R and got my money back from the seller...yuhuuuu!


----------



## Althalus

Hi all;

I'm not completely sure how to bring it but a number of people in this thread (and the Elisethread) are responsible for the disapearance of $1444,- from my bankaccount. No, no... don't feel offended. At the end of this month Lukasz will compensate me for the loss with a nice bribe. I can't wait to see it arrive.
Further I can only hope he does no longer use the pigeon for delivery, then my package will end up somewhere in the UK. Or the turtle (broken tubes). Does anyone know what he uses for shipping to the Netherlands?

Now seriously, I'm happy that I did't buy an Elise last year but had to wait. Now I can buy it's logical step up in the evolution. It does cost a bit more but I understand that it's worth it. At least my XCanV8+XPSU will soon have a bit of rest. I 'm already fearing the next step, an upgrade for my K701?

Before someone starts to give me advice about what tubes I should start to buy. I will use the "standard" tubes for the first couple of months. And when I like them they will stay in the amp. I don't have experience with buying tubes and neither have a clue how to see the difference between a trusted seller or someone who sells his crap tubes to get a profit. 

The reason I bought the Euforia? Except for all your praise and positive reviews, is that what I did see from the amp with the standard tubes is that it looks great, Yes I do like a little bit of eyecandy too. Beautifull tubes that nicely glow. I can only hope that it looks in real just as good as in the pictures.and sounds even better.

Still a long month to go.....

Althalus


----------



## Tunkejazz

Althalus said:


> Hi all;
> 
> I'm not completely sure how to bring it but a number of people in this thread (and the Elisethread) are responsible for the disapearance of $1444,- from my bankaccount. No, no... don't feel offended. At the end of this month Lukasz will compensate me for the loss with a nice bribe. I can't wait to see it arrive.
> Further I can only hope he does no longer use the pigeon for delivery, then my package will end up somewhere in the UK. Or the turtle (broken tubes). Does anyone know what he uses for shipping to the Netherlands?
> ...



Hi @Althalus. I got mine delivered in Sweden with UPS, very well packed.
The standard tube setup is very well matched/synergetic. I have played a bit with driver tubes (keeping the Svetlanas  power tubes) and I keep coming back to the PS-Vane. So yes...Enjoy it as it is for a while!


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome Althalus, I am sure you will like the look of the amp when it arrives, more so than the photo's.  It is very well thought out and laid out. The porportions are pleasing to the eye as well. As for new tubes, I think it very wise to use the tubes that come with the amp, as they are a good combination. Can you make it sound better?  Of course, but it takes time to decide what you like and where you may want to take the sound of the amp. Plenty of advice on the thread here and may will offer you help, if and when you are ready. But I would say it is best to let the amp and tubes burn in for awhile before deciding to roll other tubes in. Hope you enjoy your time here on the threads, a pretty good group of people, I must say.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Too bad............K-R///////////#(*$*&$&&$&$&(#)#)@)__)#



Attami, are you ok?


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 2, 2017)

Has anyone seen my Euforia with Sylvania 6sn7w and Gec 6as7g?

Oh .... hello @Althalus feel free to browse around here and help look for my Euforia. It's got a HD800 hooked up to it too. If you find it, please let me know ok?

Meanwhile get to know Donald over the ... I mean Duck .... and Mickey Mouse and Uncle Scrooge over there. One way or another, you will like them all. They are a little eccentric by the way. So just be a little patient....


----------



## UntilThen

Althalus said:


> Hi all;
> 
> I'm not completely sure how to bring it but a number of people in this thread (and the Elisethread) are responsible for the disapearance of $1444,- from my bankaccount. No, no... don't feel offended. At the end of this month Lukasz will compensate me for the loss with a nice bribe. I can't wait to see it arrive.
> Further I can only hope he does no longer use the pigeon for delivery, then my package will end up somewhere in the UK. Or the turtle (broken tubes). Does anyone know what he uses for shipping to the Netherlands?
> ...



Hello Althalus, let's start again for a more formal welcome.

I am personally glad that you have gain $1444. It's not a lost. That's how I look at it. What you will loose is sleep, weight lost, less s*x (unprintable here) and more music purchase. You will want to listen to every song, including your childhood nursery rhymes.

I am so glad you bought the Euforia because my commission is peg on it. The look, feel, touch, innards and sound are way ahead of the already brilliant sounding Elise. Yes I think Elise sounds brilliant and very very good.... not just because I might sell it later. This is the truth and nothing but the truth. I hope you can handle the truth.

As for upgrade tubes. Now why do you even think we will advise you that. We belong to the society of one man, one tube amp and one set of tubes. If you step outside this bounds, you loose your membership automatically. 

However, see me secretly for the best herbs and spices for your Euforia. Also I know just the DAC for you. Ok?

....and welcome again.

Cheers
UT


----------



## Tunkejazz

GEC (Haltron) 6080 arrived today. 
First impressions (compared to Svetlanas) are very positive, especially in the upper end, which is very well extended without being harsh.


----------



## Althalus

Hello

Tunkejazz; good to hear that the amp is well packed.
connieflyer; I can't wait to see it in front of me but I must have patience.


UntilThen said:


> What you will loose is sleep, weight lost, less s*x (unprintable here) and more music purchase.


UT; I didn't see any small font and now you tell me that it's so small I didn't see it?
And yes I did see your pictures and they convinced me for buying an Euforia. The only thing I don't like in them is the look of your mythical tree, it doesn't fit next to your amp and it should be black, not silver. But that is personal  and I don't think you bought it for the looks. The fact that you have a HD800 however has my attention, how does it sound with a standard Euforia? Should my next buy in the future be a Senn? Or are there others I should consider?

Everyone, thanks for your kind words and when questions arise I will not hesitate to ask them.

Althalus


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> GEC (Haltron) 6080 arrived today.
> First impressions (compared to Svetlanas) are very positive, especially in the upper end, which is very well extended without being harsh.



Hi Tunkejazz, that is an accurate description of the GEC 6080. The tone is pretty linear though. It's not a heavy tone like the Bendix 6080wb but more airy. However I tend to like the Bendix with my setup though because Yggy and HD800 is more neutral sounding, so I prefer to dial in with meatier tubes. However I could still use the GEC 6080 and enjoy it.

Tubes sound different. I've read some cynics that says that all tubes sound the same if you balance out the gain. I couldn't disagree more.  There is a subtle shift in tone between tubes, some not even subtle but quite clearly different. Trained ears can tell the difference straight away. Heck, even untrained ears will hear it.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> Hi Tunkejazz, that is an accurate description of the GEC 6080. The tone is pretty linear though. It's not a heavy tone like the Bendix 6080wb but more airy. However I tend to like the Bendix with my setup though because Yggy and HD800 is more neutral sounding, so I prefer to dial in with meatier tubes. However I could still use the GEC 6080 and enjoy it.
> 
> Tubes sound different. I've read some cynics that says that all tubes sound the same if you balance out the gain. I couldn't disagree more.  There is a subtle shift in tone between tubes, some not even subtle but quite clearly different. Trained ears can tell the difference straight away. Heck, even untrained ears will hear it.



Thanks UT. I have tested a bit Psvane/GEC 6080 and Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/GEC 6080. Both combos are actually quite nice. The Psvane is very nice with acoustic music, but the Ken-Rads have an absolutely fantastic sound with a bit more emphasis in the bass.

Just wondering...what does the Bendix 6080 and Tung-Sol 5998 bring over the GEC? I am using HD650 so my experience may differ from yours 
Both are rather expensive (in fact I don't even know where to source these tubes).


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 3, 2017)

Althalus said:


> Hello
> 
> UT; I didn't see any small font and now you tell me that it's so small I didn't see it?
> And yes I did see your pictures and they convinced me for buying an Euforia. The only thing I don't like in them is the look of your mythical tree, it doesn't fit next to your amp and it should be black, not silver. But that is personal  and I don't think you bought it for the looks. The fact that you have a HD800 however has my attention, how does it sound with a standard Euforia? Should my next buy in the future be a Senn? Or are there others I should consider?
> ...



Wow my pictures convince you to buy Euforia? Hmmmm ..... I have to be mindful of what pictures I post now. It convince @angpsi to want to buy the Specialized Rubaix.

Before I own Yggy, I thought all Schiit gear look pretty K-Mart or in the US, you would say Wal-Mart. Yeah, they have the industrial, grey boring looks. However, after I see the Yggdrasil and Ragnorak at Addicted To Audio in Newton, sitting in the special showroom for auditioning gear, my perception of it changed. Funny how a mundane piece of gear will look special in a high end audio shop. Now, Yggy looks like Louis Vuitton to me. 

Yup, looks doesn't matter to me now. It once did but now that I hear the sound from my setup, it didn't matter what colour or shape it came in. I just close my eyes and the music is so good, I cannot stop listening. So the part about loosing everything is true. 

HD800 is a revelation to me. I read so much about the dreaded 6khz spike that before I even bought it, I was scared. However hearing for yourself is important and maybe it's pairing very well with Euforia here because there is no spike to my ears but just euphony. I've heard your AKG 701 before and quite like it but it sounded a bit light in tone but very spread out and airy. HD800 is a different headphone. It is an important headphone in the history of headphone, in my opinion. Just see how many high end users are still using the HD800 with their high end gear. Look at BigFatPaulie gear. You'll see Chord Dave > DNA Stellairis > HD800SDR / Focal Utopia.

However, I don't based my opinion on what others use or say. It's based on what I hear and like. Very subjective I know but it is my ears. I can't say everyone will have my taste. Far from it. However my taste is pretty mainstream, which is what I think most people can relate to.

HD800 is perfect with Euforia. If you have a preference for a richer midrange and more prominent bass, then you need to look elsewhere. Like the LCD range from Audeze or Focal Elear or even HD650.

At the last meet, I had the privilege of listening to Focal Utopia, Elear, HD800, MrSpeakers Ether Flow C, Sony MDR Z1R, Oppo PM1, HE500 and a range of Grados with my standard Euforia. Damm, they all sounded good. 

However the Focal Utopia stood out most like Mt Everest. Next was HD800 and it look like Mt Kilimanjaro. The Sony was 3rd in my opinion. It look like Mt Fuji and why would that be a surprise? By the way, I was on the cable car up Mt Fuji with Miss Sumiko, on a clear day in 2010 and the view of the flat top snow cap mountain took my breath away. I so love Mt Fuji and Miss Sumiko.

How could you not love Mt Fuji and Miss Sumiko? Miss Sumiko is as pretty as the cherry blossom but Mt Fuji is unique.


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Thanks UT. I have tested a bit Psvane/GEC 6080 and Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/GEC 6080. Both combos are actually quite nice. The Psvane is very nice with acoustic music, but the Ken-Rads have an absolutely fantastic sound with a bit more emphasis in the bass.
> 
> Just wondering...what does the Bendix 6080 and Tung-Sol 5998 bring over the GEC? I am using HD650 so my experience may differ from yours
> Both are rather expensive (in fact I don't even know where to source these tubes).



Well I use a HD650 too but it is modified, so the tone is clearer with a more solid, tight bass. I use the term, sexy skinny jeans before. That is what tight impactful bass looks like if it had a look. 

Difference between Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998 and GEC 6080? I thought I covered that before.... 

Alright I shall refrain from allegory now and give a straight answer.

Bendix 6080wb - have a warmer, darker and weightier tone. I like it though. In a neutral setup, it is ballsy and gutsy, as well as soothing. Amazing combination right? The Bendix is like a ballerina that can twill and spin, as well as do the samba. Ok.... allegory coming in again lol. Most captivating aspect of the Bendix is the weightier tone. 

Tung Sol 5998 - this tube has a combination of very appealing attributes. The most important aspect of the 5998 tone is the energy. It has impact. Treble is well extended. Mid range is lovely and never recessed. Bass is solid and extends low. It's not a soothing tone though. I hate to compartmentalise tubes but TS 5998 will suit rock music to a 'T'. Just listen to Jeff Beck using TS 5998 and HD650. 

GEC 6080 - this has the lightest tone of the 3. It has a more relaxing tone but there's good layers and textures. Treble is extended as you say but not overly so. Bass is ok but not solid like the 5998 or Bendix. Listening to George Winston - Autumn now, the GEC 6080 sounds sublime. 

All 3 tubes are superb in my opinion... in Euforia. If you have these 3 power tubes, you should be satisfied and live a life of celibacy. You don't need anything else.

However, I haven't told you about GEC 6AS7G yet.....  that will be another chapter..... this tube will make you come out of celibacy.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> Difference between Bendix 6080wb, Tung Sol 5998 and GEC 6080? I thought I covered that before....


Yes, my apologies...the info is very hard to find in these long threads (not to mention the Elise thread).



UntilThen said:


> All 3 tubes are superb in my opinion... in Euforia. If you have these 3 power tubes, you should be satisfied and live a life of celibacy. You don't need anything else.
> However, I haven't told you about GEC 6AS7G yet..... that will be another chapter..... this tube will make you come out of celibacy.



I think given your description the Tung-Sol 5998 may be a better complement for my HD650. I will check whether I can find any of these 2 tubes (Bendix or Tung-Sol).
Then I will stop looking for a while and just enjoy a few different flavours 

I will keep celibacy regarding potential pais of GEC 6AS7G. I WANT to believe it sounds exactly the same as GEC 6080 
My wallet also tells me so. No seriously, before putting so much money in a single pair of tubes, I rather upgrade my headphones.

I had one Sylvania 6SN7WGT laying around from my Ember. Following @angpsi comment, I just ordered a second tube for $20. That way I can test a 3rd pair of drivers.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 3, 2017)

Well Tunkejazz, let me tell you that the 1st tubes that I listen to on my brand new Elise back in 27th Oct 2015, are the Lorenz C3g and Tung Sol 5998 with my then stock HD650. It was a Jim Carrey moment. My eye balls pop out and my tongue roll out like the red carpet. It was a moment where I witness and hear a sound so special, it got me hooked line and sinker. It was a sad sad day from that point on. This hobby would just ingrained itself into my very being. I'm now trying to detach myself from it.....

Gec 6as7g will never sound the same as Gec 6080. At the same time, it is very hard to justify buying a pair of tubes even though it's NOS and it's the G E C 6 A S 7 G..... at $500 a pair unless you're like the Shaolin student, who has learn all 9 chapters of the sacred kung fu manuals and there's only that one last remaining chapter left before you gain invincibility..... then you will sacrifice anything to buy my GEC 6as7g.

By the way, like my Ostrich egg which I mount on a special stand and is sitting in my vintage bookshelf, the Gec 6as7g will likewise sit in my Wall of Tube Fame..... at the highest peak..... all alone and supreme. It has done less than 50 hours but I am pulling this thoroughbred race horse from racing. I'm putting it to stud duties.... to produce more Gec 6as7g sssss.


----------



## UntilThen

Now if you excuse me, I've to sleep for one hour before going in to work. Why did I stay up and chat with you Tunkejazz?


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jul 3, 2017)

Well, if you (or anyone else) wants to get rid of his 5998, and if those tubes are in good shape...here I am!

PS: While you are at work "tomorrow" think about the great favour you did talking to a pal close to the North Pole...


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> (...)Following @angpsi comment, I just ordered a second tube for $20. That way I can test a 3rd pair of drivers.


 Wow, I feel honored to be considered as sound and knowledgeable advice! Next time I'll be convincing you to buy a bike—if you need the extra flavor it'll have to be the Specialized Rubaix!


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 3, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> Well, if you (or anyone else) wants to get rid of his 5998, and if those tubes are in good shape...here I am!
> 
> PS: While you are at work "tomorrow" think about the great favour you did talking to a pal close to the North Pole...



Sorry I had no idea I was talking to Santa. Pardon my lack of diplomatic welcome. To make up for that, I will sell you my 3rd Tung Sol 5998 at the price I bought it for.... because it's literally unused. Thereafter you only need to buy another one.

Edit:- I mean I bought it used but in great condition and I have hardly use it.

Here is a picture of it.



I also have a used pair of Tung Sol 7236 in great condition at a reasonable price.


----------



## Tunkejazz

How much would you be asking for those pairs? (Better send me a PM).


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Wow, I feel honored to be considered as sound and knowledgeable advice! Next time I'll be convincing you to buy a bike—if you need the extra flavor it'll have to be the Specialized Rubaix!


----------



## UntilThen

My Magnovox 6SN7gt finally came. It look exactly like my Raytheon 6SN7gt vt231 black glass. I was also told by @Oskari that these are actually National Union 6SN7gt vt231 black glass with a different brand names.

So in they go into Euforia, partnering the Gec 6as7g. Love it, love my dinner, love the tone, love the gravy. These black glass are neither heavy or light in tone. They are neither warm or bright. Very good details and very clear. It's love at first hearing. I set out to buy a pair of Ken Rads but got these instead.... for now.

The Magnovox came in a IEC box while the Raytheon came in a .... well in a 'every body love Raymond' box.


----------



## whirlwind

I like the NU 6SN7GT tubes.....a great all rounder.


----------



## UntilThen

whirlwind said:


> I like the NU 6SN7GT tubes.....a great all rounder.



Such a great tone those NU drivers with GEC powers. Kind of a luxury really but oh well, tubes are to be used and enjoyed. I ain't buying those GECs just to keep them. Really loving Roon too. I can sample songs so easily now, having access to both my library and Tidal's at the same time.

The song, 'The River' by Bruce Springsteen came on and I am going nuts, plugging my headphone jack from Euforia to Figaro and back again. This is the beauty of Yggy. It can feed 2 amps simultaneously. It's also a curse as I have both amps powered on, just to sample 2 different tones on the same song.  

This is really fun.


----------



## UntilThen

The tone is so rich, so mesmerising. Both amps sound like a knockout. If there's a heaven in music, this is it. I've swap over to HD650 for a warmer laden tone. My ears were given a real treat. Life's good.


----------



## Althalus

UntilThen said:


> Wow my pictures convince you to buy Euforia? Hmmmm .....



UT,
it's not that bad, It was just a last final drop. Al the positive comments from others in this and the Elise thread filled the bucket before you.

I agree with you with the headphones. Comments of others can only point you in the right direction but  listening with your own ears is important fot the final choice. I learned it when I bought my K701, it was a close race with the HD650. It sounds light but I liked the airy character just a little bit more than the bass of the Senn. I like them both but in the end I could only buy one (money issues). In the future I will listen to the HD800. Who knows, maybe I will like it too.


----------



## UntilThen

@Althalus  my photos and impressions of Euforia starts from this point forth. https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-101#post-13356714

Seems like a long time ago. Do I still enjoy Euforia? Very much so. It is more warm and lush than Figaro. Not just my opinion alone. My son thinks so too. However I think that warm and lushness suits my neutral sounding system of Yggy and HD800. Figaro is warm and lush too but less so. 

I think our ears like a change in tone every now and then. So grab yourself 2 contrasting headphones, a few contrasting tubes, just one DAC because none of us are too rich to be able to afford 2 decent DACs. Maybe more than one amps....


----------



## angpsi (Jul 4, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> (...) Really loving Roon too. I can sample songs so easily now, having access to both my library and Tidal's at the same time. (...)


 Hi UT, how do you like Roon against Audirvana? I've been considering it but the price of admission for Roon is quite steep, especially since I paid (twice) for Audirvana in the past! Obviously I've read all about it in various threads and I know they do somewhat different things, but do you really justify picking Roon over Audirvana? Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 4, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Hi UT, how do you like Roon against Audirvana? I've been considering it but the price of admission for Roon is quite steep, especially since I paid (twice) for Audirvana in the past! Obviously I've read all about it in various threads and I know they do somewhat different things, but do you really justify picking Roon over Audirvana? Thanks.



I like Audirvana but I like Roon even more. I've not done a comparison between Roon and Audirvana because I've kept my iMac 27" because there's no room on my desk for it now.

However this is the description of the 2 by the guy who kind of got me to try Roon. He said that Roon sounded natural while Audirvana is dynamic. Either sounds good depending on your preference. Now having heard both software separately and over different period of time, I would agree with this assessment.

So what does it mean by Roon is natural. Well natural as in the sound is pleasing without fatigue in long hours of listening. At the same time, details and clarity aren't compromised. It is there in abundance. In fact, I now prefer how Roon sound over my previous favourite - JRiver MC23 ....... and I just paid the license for 23...... and I just paid for Audirvana Plus 3.

The best part of Roon extends beyond how it sounds. I know one would argue why would you consider other attributes besides sound? Well let me tell you, control, aesthetics, convenience, artwork, album covers, lyrics, credits to musicians, sharing and integration of your own music library with Tidal is just too compelling to ignore.

Once you have tried Roon, you will not give it up. After the 14 days trial, I know I will be paying the $114 yearly membership or buy the life time license for $600+ but why pay for life time license..... because no good things last forever...... in the future there might be better software, though it would be hard to imagine how it could be better.

Now go and get Roon and start believing in me. 

Ah... you can queue up songs to play in real time.... and remove them anytime as you please. You can share albums you're listening to easily like this...

http://i.imgur.com/Z0zLs2d.png

See the blue line at the bottom in the picture? It's the spectrum analyser of how your song is travelling... quite mesmerising just to watch.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> I like Audirvana but I like Roon even more. I've not done a comparison between Roon and Audirvana because I've kept my iMac 27" because there's no room on my desk for it now.
> 
> However this is the description of the 2 by the guy who kind of got me to try Roon. He said that Roon sounded natural while Audirvana is dynamic. Either sounds good depending on your preference. Now having heard both software separately and over different period of time, I would agree with this assessment.
> 
> ...


Aargh... I've been avoiding this for long _exactly_ because I was afraid I'd be so smitten with the aesthetics of Room that I would want to pay the admission fee... Guess I'll go through with the trial and see for myself; I've been delaying this far too long.

Btw, just too many options on the R2R DAC front. It looks like all the R2R are getting rave reviews by their users: the Denafrips, the Soekris, the AudioGD, and of course the Schiit—not to mention TotalDAC, Rocna, MSB, et al, but I'm just looking below the $2000 price point (not that I can afford it right now). Looks like there's going to be a huge race at the price point, considering also Chord, Aune, and other good D/S implementations... Closing the same way I opened this post,

Aaaarrrrgghhhh!


----------



## UntilThen

Believe me, there is only one DAC that matters and that is Yggdrasil. This is the brain child of Mike Moffat, who if you didn't about him, is the father of the DAC, the creator of the first commercially available DAC, the Theta whatever model it's called. @pctazhp  the Schiit number one fan boy will tell you all about it.

Now I didn't know about Mike or Yggy before but now I do. My only gripe is the features in the dac are so spartan. (Guess they put the money where it matters most - sound of course !!!) Sure it can output signal to 2 amps simultaneously but both amps need to be powered on. If you left one amp power off and the RCA cable is still connected, the signal is cut off even on the other amp that is powered on.

Not that it matters as not many people will use it like me.... with 2 amps connected and powered on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 4, 2017)

However you are right..... when something is good, you will find others emulating it. So there are a proliferation of r2r dacs on the market faster than you can say 1 2 3 and they are from China, the land that can clone and make something better than the original..... and at cheaper price.... this is how the world spins around..... according to UT and Einstein.

Ps... I did not just say clone - I say make better than the original.

Look at the mobile phone scene. If Steve Jobs didn't put his mind behind the iPhone, there wouldn't be conglomerations of big corporations producing Samsung and Huawei mobile phones and what nots...

Never forget the originators though... they are the innovators and the creative minds.

Ps... Mike Moffat is not just an audio engineer. He is a mathematician extraordinary.

Psss... it's not just the Chinese who borrow ideas but the Japanese and Koreans too.... now Japanese and Korean cars competes with the best.... except if you consider the Germans, whose Mercedes, BMW and Audi are considered prestige cars but in their own country, it's used as taxis.


----------



## UntilThen

So let me pose a question. Who invented the first amplifier tube or valve?


----------



## angpsi

OK, got Roon. First impression, I think it adds something like a gain to the music—something like placing you closer to the musicians, bit similar to the MQA effect—, but overall it produces a very pleasurable rendering. Gave it direct mode priority, obviously. Any other settings I should look for?


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> So let me pose a question. Who invented the first amplifier tube or valve?


You mean this one? It's got sound filters too! (http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070319/full/news070319-16.html)


----------



## angpsi (Jul 4, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> So let me pose a question. Who invented the first amplifier tube or valve?


Otherwise I'd go with the telephone?

EDIT: yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_amplifier


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Believe me, there is only one DAC that matters and that is Yggdrasil.


Fanboy alert!


----------



## UntilThen

Let me pose another question to you Mr Doubter. Who is the first to discover that the earth is spherical?

Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Seleucus or Posidonius ?

If you find the answer to that, you will know why Yggdrasil is all that matters...... because the world is round and not flat.


----------



## Oskari

Bollocks!

As regards DACs, or anything.


----------



## angpsi

According to my research this is the "StarChild Question of the Month for February 2003": https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html 

Let me ask you this, then: how come my daughter knows all about Norse mythology despite being 6 years old? (answer: her english teacher did it!)


----------



## angpsi

Oskari said:


> Bollocks!
> 
> As regards DACs, or anything.


What? Not a fan?


----------



## angpsi

It's so fun Googling generic questions! I just Googled "best DAC ever made" and here it is!
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/best-dac-ever-made.654031/
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-is-the-best-dac-ever-made
http://www.musicservertips.com/product-reviews/dac-buyers-guide/


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> If you find the answer to that, you will know why Yggdrasil is all that matters...... because the world is round and not flat.





angpsi said:


> What? Not a fan?


Just saying that none of that is relevant!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm going to be a fanboy soon but I can't decide which fan to buy to cool my tube amps.

This?

 

or this?


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> "best DAC ever made"



.... it is a turntable


----------



## angpsi

Oskari said:


> Just saying that none of that is relevant!


Well, his argumentative powers did get me to try out Roon!


----------



## angpsi

Ok, now that this has finished playing I'm off to bed!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> .... it is a turntable


This one maybe? A friend of mine got it for free out of a friend's father's storage room... Plays records, too (lucky person)!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Well, his argumentative powers did get me to try out Roon!



Roon is good right?


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> This one maybe? A friend of mine got it for free out of a friend's father's storage room... Plays records, too (lucky person)!




Damnmm I want a Thorens too.


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Roon is good right?


Good, but I don't think I'm gonna spend my money on this... Won me another Syl6sn7w for $39 and I also had to get a bike rack to carry my daughter's bike ($110)! Car service is next; there goes another $200... Overall, there's money pouring out of my pocket and I can't seem to stop the leak!


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Damnmm I want a Thorens too.


I don't think my friend's got any idea what he's carrying. For the time being he uses it as a decorative vintage piece... He also got a Sansui tube amp along with the Thorens!


----------



## angpsi

Ok, off to bed—for real this time! See you tomorrow.


----------



## mordy

I have a Thorens 115 MKII. Needs a new RCA patch cord - otherwise mint. And an Oracle Alexandria MKII that needs work on the suspension.


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> According to my research this is the "StarChild Question of the Month for February 2003": https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html
> 
> Let me ask you this, then: how come my daughter knows all about Norse mythology despite being 6 years old? (answer: her english teacher did it!)



I bet the teacher had a Yggy.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Fanboy alert!



I'm a fan for a reason. Wish I was still a boy but time marches on and boyhood is left far behind.

There are many unbiased view of Yggy. This is one of them. People who have audition lots of dacs and still writes well of Yggy, says something about it.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/page-356#post-13581150


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Good, but I don't think I'm gonna spend my money on this... Won me another Syl6sn7w for $39 and I also had to get a bike rack to carry my daughter's bike ($110)! Car service is next; there goes another $200... Overall, there's money pouring out of my pocket and I can't seem to stop the leak!



Hehe, I *almost* placed a bid for that tube (glad that I didn't!)...the construction was not exactly the same as the tube I already have.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> I'm a fan for a reason. Wish I was still a boy but time marches on and boyhood is left far behind.


I got tired of the Yggy Yggy Yggy there.


----------



## pctazhp

Beauty, Simplicity. What more could one want in life - other than a black Bimby???




Notice input on Bimby is set to coax from USB by-pass ASUS soundcard)))


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Hehe, I *almost* placed a bid for that tube (glad that I didn't!)...the construction was not exactly the same as the tube I already have.


Are you saying that you have a Sylvania 6sn7w with different construction? Or do you just have a different 6sn7 type altogether?

P.S. I too am glad you didn't bid on the tube!


----------



## angpsi

Guys, anybody who appreciates resolution should listen to this recording! Stumbled on it by accident; Schiit fanboys, if your claims are true this should blow your mind—just trust me!


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Are you saying that you have a Sylvania 6sn7w with different construction? Or do you just have a different 6sn7 type altogether?
> 
> P.S. I too am glad you didn't bid on the tube!



Exactly, the one I have is a different type 6SN7WGT.


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Exactly, the one I have is a different type 6SN7WGT.


Oh, cool tube, have a pair myself. Very gutsy tube, I enjoyed it immensely with my Mullard 6080. Sylvania 6sn7w is a different animal though, hope we don't cross swords over these in the future!


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Oh, cool tube, have a pair myself. Very gutsy tube, I enjoyed it immensely with my Mullard 6080. Sylvania 6sn7w is a different animal though, hope we don't cross swords over these in the future!



Interesting. Is the 6SN7W more neutral or warmer than the one I have?


----------



## angpsi (Jul 5, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> Interesting. Is the 6SN7W more neutral or warmer than the one I have?


Neutral and resolving. They're my Yggdrasil, but in some cases / for some people & setups these can be a bit over the top. Yet I repeat: I hope we don't cross swords over them!


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> Exactly, the one I have is a different type 6SN7WGT.


The Sylvania Gold Brand is their premium long lasting tube rated at 10,000 hours. 10,000 hours tubes from Mullard were called Millenium, and from Amperex PQ -Premium Quality.
The GE 5 Star tubes were rated at a minimum of 7,500 hours.
And Russian tubes with a DR suffix were good for 10,000 hours as well. (EB/EB means 5,000 hours)

As far as I know, the average life span of the tubes we use in our Feliks amps is 5,000 hours. Regarding sound quality I never found any reference that these longer lasting tubes sound better - they just last longer.
And the oldies EL tubes and similar are supposed to last for 10,000 hours (unless your name is EL12 lol).

I have seen anecdotal evidence that some Telefunken tubes lasted over 100,000 hours.

 I cannot remember wearing out any tubes over the 8 years I've been rolling tubes. (A few were lost to accidents such as dropping them and using faulty adapters.)


----------



## angpsi

Just to entice you, make you poorer, but give you chance to a really great set of powers, here's a pair of GEC 6080 under the Haltron brand at a very good price. 'Regular' GECs go for way more than that!!! According to UT these are the challengers to the Throne, albeit the unobtainable GEC A1834 / 6as7g Round Base will prove the 6080 a lesser tube.


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> The Sylvania Gold Brand is their premium long lasting tube rated at 10,000 hours. 10,000 hours tubes from Mullard were called Millenium, and from Amperex PQ -Premium Quality.
> The GE 5 Star tubes were rated at a minimum of 7,500 hours.
> And Russian tubes with a DR suffix were good for 10,000 hours as well. (EB/EB means 5,000 hours)
> 
> ...


But owning anything that is labeled 'gold' vintage will certainly add to pride of ownership! Else we might as well go for these, which seem to have a golden hue in their reflection! oops, sorry, my bad; it seems they're all gone now!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Just to entice you, make you poorer, but give you chance to a really great set of powers, here's a pair of GEC 6080 under the Haltron brand at a very good price. 'Regular' GECs go for way more than that!!! According to UT these are the challengers to the Throne, albeit the unobtainable GEC A1834 / 6as7g Round Base will prove the 6080 a lesser tube.



Just curious if you believe the round base GEC 6AS7G is superior to the straight base, and if so why?


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> Just curious if you believe the round base GEC 6AS7G is superior to the straight base, and if so why?


Because UT said so! I only have the lowly GEC 6080 (which I happen to love with the Syl6sn7w) so I couldn't possibly comment on the rightful owner of the Throne! 

Btw, today I revisited the Mullard 6080 / Sylvania 6sn7wgt combo, then moved to the TS 5998 / TS 6sn7. Something about the GEC 6080 / Sylvania 6as7w that makes everything sound right in my system and to my ears—went right back to them. Also, I was able to discern that the ST bottle shape outputs something like a reverberation, which sounds like more 'air'; by comparison the 6080 is definitely tighter. But the GEC 6080 just renders everything with such authority! I wish I could compare with the A1384 so I reach a more informed conclusion. But as I said: the GEC 6080 / Sylvania 6sn7w is my Yggdrasil! Debbie Harry never sounded so right to my ears!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Because UT said so! I only have the lowly GEC 6080 (which I happen to love with the Syl6sn7w) so I couldn't possibly comment on the rightful owner of the Throne!



Actually I knew that. Just trying to cause trouble


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> Actually I knew that. Just trying to cause trouble


I'm trying to do the same by repeating the word "Yggdrasil"! I think if I say it three times UT will appear out of thin air!


----------



## pctazhp

You just need to call it "Yiggy" once and it will drive him crazy!!!


----------



## angpsi

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!


----------



## angpsi

Btw, wasn't it you who actually preferred the GEC 6080 over the A1384?


----------



## pctazhp (Jul 5, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Btw, wasn't it you who actually preferred the GEC 6080 over the A1384?



Being under the care of a gold-level team of mental health professionals, I can't be held responsible for any prior post. I think I may have said I didn't feel there was much difference and wasn't sure which one I preferred. The team's prognosis for me is not encouraging, so I'm not sure I will be able to further clarify. Suffice it to say, I think they are both great tubes. And it does seem to me that tube choice in Euforia is less critical than for Elise, because just about everything I try in Euforia sounds good to me. But admittedly I'm pretty much sticking to the section of my tube stable which is home to my generally highly rated drivers and power tubes. The rest of my tubes are out to pasture enjoying retirement.


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> Being under the care of a gold-level team of mental health professionals, I can't be held responsible for any prior post. I think I may have said I didn't feel there was much difference and wasn't sure which one I preferred. The team's prognosis for me is not encouraging, so I'm not sure I will be able to further clarify. Suffice it to say, I think they are both great tubes. And it does seem to me that tube choice in Euforia is less critical than for Elise, because just about everything I try in Euforia sounds good to me. But admittedly I'm pretty much sticking to the section of my tube stable which is home to my generally highly rated drivers and power tubes. The rest of my tubes are out to pasture enjoying retirement.


I sympathise and wish you the best. As for me, the days of admiring the stock Svetlana / Psvane combo are long gone!...


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> I sympathise and wish you the best. As for me, the days of admiring the stock Svetlana / Psvane combo are long gone!...



For me it's the days of wine and roses that are long gone. Oppps. Got to go!! Nurse Ratched is approaching with 5 syringes in her hand


----------



## UntilThen

Who has been calling me?


----------



## Bren Arden

Hi fellow headfi'ers,

Does it have a preamplifier function like the elise? Im looking to buy a headphone amp for Sennheiser HD650/MrSpeakers Mad Dog Pro/Final Audio Sonorous III and been looking into tube amps lately. But a requirement for me is that it has a good preamp out to feed a very high gain (36dB Job225) amp wich is direct coupled. I already read they have DC protection but i cant find out from pictures if the Euforia has PRE-OUT RCA. Also how does the preamp work on very low volume dial settings? I have alot of room reflections so its hard to keep the bass under control if i turn up the volume.

Thanks in advance


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Bren and welcome to this thread.

Euforia is exactly the same as Elise in the preamp function. See this picture I took of the 2 amps together.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/f...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-101#post-13356746

I've not experimented with Euforia as a preamp but I did with Elise.... on my 2 channel stereo system. With the RCA out from Elise to my amplifier preamp in, volume is controlled on the amp. That's how I remembered it.... ie Elise volume knob does nothing.... yup pretty sure about it.


----------



## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Who has been calling me?



You mean on the phone or calling you names??? If it is the former you are asking about, it wasn't me.


----------



## Bren Arden

So it wont work as a preamp for my poweramp (since poweramps dont have volume dials). Il contact feliks audio te be sure if i decide to buy. I am selling my Violectric V850 to buy an RME ADI-2 PRO for the DAC/SSamp combo and mainly for the DSP functions to help with my roomreflections. I will probably end up buying a Feliks Audio Euforia or Auris Audio HA2SE tube amp afterwards tho.


----------



## UntilThen

Bren Arden said:


> So it wont work as a preamp for my poweramp (since poweramps dont have volume dials). Il contact feliks audio te be sure if i decide to buy. I am selling my Violectric V850 to buy an RME ADI-2 PRO for the DAC/SSamp combo and mainly for the DSP functions to help with my roomreflections. I will probably end up buying a Feliks Audio Euforia or Auris Audio HA2SE tube amp afterwards tho.




Ah yes, please contact Lukasz regarding the preamp function of Euforia..... I'm sure it will work and not just a gimmick. 

My only exposure with Elise's preamp is my 15 minutes of fame as I show case to the world 'here' my 'imaginary' Focal Grande Utopia.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 6, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> You mean on the phone or calling you names??? If it is the former you are asking about, it wasn't me.



A call came through tonight .... ringing persistently. When I answered it, I heard this....

*New video !!!*


----------



## mordy (Jul 6, 2017)

Bren Arden said:


> So it wont work as a preamp for my poweramp (since poweramps dont have volume dials). Il contact feliks audio te be sure if i decide to buy. I am selling my Violectric V850 to buy an RME ADI-2 PRO for the DAC/SSamp combo and mainly for the DSP functions to help with my roomreflections. I will probably end up buying a Feliks Audio Euforia or Auris Audio HA2SE tube amp afterwards tho.


HI BA,

I have been using the Euforia consistently (and before that the Elise) as a preamp. Volume is controlled by both the volume knob on the Euforia and the volume control on my integrated 110W ss amp.
Usually I turn the Euforia volume to max and adjust the amp to a suitable volume level - according to the watt meter on the amp not more than 2W is needed.
Just tried it the other way around - volume at 10am on the Euforia (what I use for my T1 headphones) and turned up the amp to around 80% to get the desired volume level (still reads less than 2W).
Can't really hear any difference in sound either way (subject to longer term listening).
Cannot find any reason why you cannot control your power amp volume with the Euforia, but just to be sure you could email Lukasz at Feliks Audio.
IMHO you have nothing to worry about using the Euforia as a preamp - should work splendidly.
Added a picture of the readout on my 80's Sony integrated amp. The Euforia volume for this picture was 12am, the amp at 70%, the watts well under 2W for room filling sound. (Maybe the bass has more impact with the amp turned up higher)


----------



## UntilThen

Bren Arden said:


> So it wont work as a preamp for my poweramp (since poweramps dont have volume dials). Il contact feliks audio te be sure if i decide to buy. I am selling my Violectric V850 to buy an RME ADI-2 PRO for the DAC/SSamp combo and mainly for the DSP functions to help with my roomreflections. I will probably end up buying a Feliks Audio Euforia or Auris Audio HA2SE tube amp afterwards tho.



Hi Bren, Mordy is correct.

I had a dream last night and it all came back to me. I remember it clearly now. It was Elise control that work. My amp control did nothing.... in my case at least.

Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 6, 2017)

angpsi said:


> Because UT said so!



Wow, that's a powerful statement. Even I shudder to read it but you are correct. My comments on those power tubes, though done with some tongue in cheek, is what I believe them to be.

So if you need a refresher, just go to page one and read it again.

.... I mean page one of Elise thread.


----------



## Bren Arden

Nice information and great to know. I wil have to wait untill i sell off my other stuff tho, but many thanks for the information mordy and UntilThen.


----------



## connieflyer

I had a Thorens like this one for a few years and loved it.  Used the Empire 999Ve cartridge was a favorite. Started out using Shure cartridges but the Empire seemed more musical and effortless. Then moved on to an Accutrack 4000 with the laser track selector, lots of fun.  Could program different tracks in any order, as many times as you wanted. ..https://www.vinylengine.com/library/adc/accutrac-4000.shtml.


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I had a Thorens like this one for a few years and loved it.  Used the Empire 999Ve cartridge was a favorite. Started out using Shure cartridges but the Empire seemed more musical and effortless. Then moved on to an Accutrack 4000 with the laser track selector, lots of fun.  Could program different tracks in any order, as many times as you wanted. ..https://www.vinylengine.com/library/adc/accutrac-4000.shtml.



Thorens, Shure and Empire were all great names. There was much more "romance" involved in audio back then than there is today. We just didn't realize it


----------



## pctazhp

I've been listening with my slotted Bendix 6080s today. In case I forgot to mention (which I know I didn't) I got them PLUS my pristine pair of GEC6AS7Gs for total of $400.  No farmer tubes those!!! But I did buy them from a farmer who was outstanding in his field. I tried that joke once before, but got no "likes", so I'm giving it one more try.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I've been listening with my slotted Bendix 6080s today. In case I forgot to mention (which I know I didn't) I got them PLUS my pristine pair of GEC6AS7Gs for total of $400.  No farmer tubes those!!! But I did buy them from a farmer who was outstanding in his field. I tried that joke once before, but got no "likes", so I'm giving it one more try.



I said the Bendix 6080wb was and is my Chief of Staff. I'm desperately looking for another Chatham or Tung Sol 6080wb solid plates to pair with the solo tube that I have. If you have one for $10, let me know.


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## UntilThen (Jul 7, 2017)

I'm watching the new 'Magnificent Seven' with sound from Euforia and the Bendix 6080wb now.

Denzel Washington is no Yul Brynner but the movie is pretty good and the bullets sounded real from the Bendix .... or is it bandits.

I almost choked on the scene, when the town folks said that they can't fight to defend themselves but the girl said, 'Leave if you want, just don't take anything that if not yours. I'm the only one with the balls to fight'.

Those are fighting words and coming from the Bendix, you know she mean it.

In the end, 4 men died fighting for those who couldn't fight for themselves. The world needs these men.... and women.


----------



## myphone

Listening to jazz and rock, with Euforia KenRad VT231/Tung sol 7236/HD650/T1. Lots of bass. Great pace. Really fun.


----------



## pctazhp

The question I'm going to be pondering throughout the day. Why would anyone use anything on Euforia other than Foton drivers and GEC6080 power tubes???


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## myphone (Jul 9, 2017)

Different flavors and experience. 

Like Sushi with Sake, pizza with wine, and BBQ with beer. Different and enjoyable in their own ways.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> The question I'm going to be pondering throughout the day. Why would anyone use anything on Euforia other than Foton drivers and GEC6080 power tubes???



Because they are trying to convince themselves that Fotons is the best?


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## pctazhp

UntilThen said:


> Because they are trying to convince themselves that Fotons is the best?



Like so much of mankind's futile, vain activity, they pursue false gods.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> The question I'm going to be pondering throughout the day. Why would anyone use anything on Euforia other than Foton drivers and GEC6080 power tubes???


The main reason is to save the GEC6AS7 and the TS  roundplates as an investment-the Fotons with the right power tubes are just as satisfying to listen to


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> The main reason is to save the GEC6AS7 and the TS roundplates as an investment



Hahaha ..... Gec 6a7g as an investment?  I tried but I kept wanting to use it .... to listen to it again. This holy grail is the smoothest of all chocolate. Think of what that will do to the hd800. It will make it civilised and euphonic. It is so smooth and yet so clear. Bass is so authoritative. The whole frequency spectrum is just magic.

However if I keep my pair, it might get to $1000 in 5 years time....


----------



## UntilThen

After a long hiatus from T1, it's pure magic listening to it again. This is definitely a leaner tone than hd800 but the Samurai sword cuts through the air like a hot knife through butter. I am mesmerised by the more defined and precise tone. It's a lot of fun alternating between these headphones, hd650 included.


----------



## mordy

Hi pct and UT,

I subscribe to pct's notion of everything in moderation. There is always something that is better. But I have reached an age where I am happy being happy with what I have - ATM the Euforia (using a $9 hospital grade A/C power cord) with RCA 6AS7G and Foton 6N8S.
Finally got a pair of T1 headphones that makes me forget my speakers (but I am still listening to my speakers here and there). And in five months time I should have the Massdrop HD 6xx - when they get ready to ship out the 11,500 ordered. Which shows you that you should always read the fine print. 

So the philosophical question is: Musical enjoyment or musical perfection?

Will perfect musicality, will I be perfectly musically happy? But I am already so happy with the sound I have - sure those expensive pieces will make it sound better - I trust the judgement of their proponents. 

Still, I am trying to remain immune to the advanced case of upgradeitis that the Euforia causes. I mean, I do have a DAC already ...the Elna EL-D01.

Will see how things play out. In the US the government forces you to take out a portion of your IRA (retirement account) savings at age 70 1/2 and every year thereafter, or face a 50% tax.


----------



## UntilThen

Mordy, take your time. You are right. You could be happy now and not upgrade anymore. However musical enjoyment is musical perfection..... for some at least 

Before I started on this Head-Fi road, I was enjoying my music with MP3. I was enjoying Youtube music videos. I still do at times.  Now even Tidal at 16/44.1 sounds so different from MP3. I didn't have vinyl then or I had vinyl when I was 19 years old and it was a Mitsubishi sound system. 

One must be careful in this hobby. You can get carried away very quickly. It's important to spend according to your budget. Don't let others influence you. When I had Elise, I only had the NAD d1050. I was happy then or I wouldn't have so many posts..... 

However, is it better now? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ............ need I answer it? Better is not the word. It's supreme now and I am only getting a glimpse of high end. I better stop before I bankrupt the Australian Treasury. 

But but @Rossliew is tempting me with Stax and Blue Hawaii........   and I'm still about to buy my LAST pair of tubes from @oshipao . A near NOS pair of Chatham 6080wb solid plates. Last one definitely @Oskari or my name's TU.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> A near NOS pair of Chatham 6080wb


I have been looking for a pair of those (Tung sol/Chatham 6080), do you know if the seller has more that I could source?


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> I have been looking for a pair of those (Tung sol/Chatham 6080), do you know if the seller has more that I could source?



Let me talk to @oshipao first. He has only one pair and he's a gorgeous forum member here. If he agrees to sell it to you at the price he ask for then I am willing to let it go..... sob.... bye bye Chatham.

Truth is I feel guilty buying one more pair when I already have the Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite plates and a single Chatham 6080wb.

So @Oskari  .... sorry for quoting you freeeeely .... I will or may spare you the agony of another pair of tubes. I will try to exercise temperance. Hands shaking...... withdrawal symptoms of not buying tubes......


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jul 10, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Let me talk to @oshipao first. He has only one pair and he's a gorgeous forum member here. If he agrees to sell it to you at the price he ask for then I am willing to let it go..... sob.... bye bye Chatham.



That is very kind of you, thanks!
I was not aware he had advertised a pair of those here at the forum.

EDIT: I just had a look at his post in the sales section. Unfortunately, 150 EUR is too steep for me this month, I just got my pair of GEC 6080


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 10, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> That is very kind of you, thanks!
> I was not aware he had advertised a pair of those here at the forum.



He did... a while back on the classified here... but then he withdrew it. However I am UT and anyone will sell UT anything.

Btw, if you do get it, don't tell @angpsi  about it. He will unfriend me for not letting him know first. The truth is I'm saving his wallet and his marriage.... and his little bicycle.

Ps... I am thinking of changing my name to VK - VeryKind.

Now that I change my mind, Oshipao will unfriend me too.

Well I did not change my mind but I was kind to let another forum member get a taste of what it's like to listen to the 'Chief Of Staff'. !!!


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 10, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> EDIT: I just had a look at his post in the sales section. Unfortunately, 150 EUR is too steep for me this month, I just got my pair of GEC 6080



Ok no problem. I will buy it gladly, happily, joyfully, hand clappingly...

So after many posts I'm back to buying it again and I will have to put up with another Oskari's remarks. Remember O, this is the LAST or UT's not my name.

@Tunkejazz  I will buy it now and sell it to you for 300 euro in 6 months time .... how's that?


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hehehe, my evil side has played with the idea of buying some expensive tube and keeping it in the drawer for 5 years...to see what happens when I try to sell it! 


UntilThen said:


> @Tunkejazz I will buy it now and sell it to you for 300 euro in 6 months time .... how's that?


I would not dare to ask for the price of your GEC 6AS7G in six months then...


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> Hehehe, my evil side has played with the idea of buying some expensive tube and keeping it in the drawer for 5 years...to see what happens when I try to sell it!
> 
> I would not dare to ask for the price of your GEC 6AS7G in six months then...



If someday I do give up on tubes, I won't take advantage of inflation. They will be sold at prices I bought at or lower. I'm not a seller but a hobbyist.


----------



## Tunkejazz

UntilThen said:


> If someday I do give up on tubes, I won't take advantage of inflation. They will be sold at prices I bought at or lower. I'm not a seller but a hobbyist.



That is exactly why I never let my dark side take over my actions. 
But looking at prices on eBay, makes me mad and triggers that kind of thoughts. 
Tubes that I bought 2 years ago for my Ember have gone up already 40%, some of them from the same sellers!


----------



## UntilThen

Tunkejazz said:


> That is exactly why I never let my dark side take over my actions.
> But looking at prices on eBay, makes me mad and triggers that kind of thoughts.
> Tubes that I bought 2 years ago for my Ember have gone up already 40%, some of them from the same sellers!



and they will continue to go up. Bought my pair of Tung Sol 5998 about almost 2 years ago at $239 NOS.

5 years old they are less than $100. 10 years ago you get them for $30.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Exactly!
On the positive side: my experience dealing with forum members has been great, both with tubes and headphones


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> Btw, if you do get it, don't tell @angpsi  about it. He will unfriend me for not letting him know first. The truth is I'm saving his wallet and his marriage.... and his little bicycle.


No tubes for me, I'm planting trees now. Figured if I rolled with that, one of them will become Yggdrasil and I'll be a happy man. Oh, wait, I'm already a happy man; bought my daughter a bike (and she loves me nonetheless)! Plus, such good company here I'd never imagine unfrieding anyone or it would be my loss...


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> No tubes for me, I'm planting trees now. Figured if I rolled with that, one of them will become Yggdrasil and I'll be a happy man. Oh, wait, I'm already a happy man; bought my daughter a bike (and she loves me nonetheless)! Plus, such good company here I'd never imagine unfrieding anyone or it would be my loss...



I am glad my oldest son is only 4 years old...no expensive bikes for them yet!
Vacation has become very expensive though as they both now pay plane seats. We are right now in Algave enjoying lovely food, weather and beaches!


----------



## UntilThen

Angie, buy Yggdrasil an Ragnarok and go tubeless.


----------



## angpsi (Jul 10, 2017)

If I ever do get the Yggdrasil it will be very hard to pass it off as a cheap minor toy I spent very little money on. That's definitely one chunky large piece of equipment! So my marriage is indeed projected to be compromised in the future, even if you gift me the thing. No wife of an audiophile would ever believe it!


----------



## UntilThen

Well Tunkejazz please spare a thought for poor me working today.

Enjoy !


----------



## UntilThen

I am glad my son is 29 and I dont have to buy him a bike anymore.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jul 10, 2017)

angpsi said:


> If I ever do get the Yggdrasil it will be very hard to pass it off as a cheap minor toy I spent very little money on. That's definitely one chunky large piece of equipment! So my marriage is indeed projected to be compromised in the future, even if you gift me the thing. No wife of an audiophile would ever believe it!



Whenever she complains about my audiophile thingy, I just ask for the price of her bag/purse.
I always get a "fine then" 

EDIT: how much can a piece of glass with wires cost? 
EDIT1: how much can a piece of leather cost?


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> I am glad my oldest son is only 4 years old...no expensive bikes for them yet!
> Vacation has become very expensive though as they both now pay plane seats. We are right now in Algave enjoying lovely food, weather and beaches!


@Tunkejazz atr you from Portugal or just spending your vacation there? Been meaning to visit the country, have some friends and colleagues over there


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Whenever she complains about my audiophile thingy, I just ask for the price of her bag/purse.
> I always get a "fine then"
> 
> EDIT: how much can a piece of glass with wires cost?
> EDIT1: how much can a piece of leather cost?


Don't think the bag trick will do the job in this case. Next year I'm paying a hefty tuition for 1st grade. That's right, I didn't go for the base model when I looked for school, and I'm also somewhat anxious about possible upgrades along the way!


----------



## angpsi

Off to bed, almost 2am here.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Just visiting! I live in Sweden 
Algarve is truly special, we have been here twice in the past 5 years.


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Don't think the bag trick will do the job in this case. Next year I'm paying a hefty tuition for 1st grade. That's right, I didn't go for the base model when I looked for school, and I'm also somewhat anxious about possible upgrades along the way!



My condolences, the bag trick cannot compete with that!


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> Just visiting! I live in Sweden
> Algarve is truly special, we have been here twice in the past 5 years.


My daughters godmother, who's also my wife's best friend, lives in Stockholm. It's been long since I visited, maybe it's time to visit again!


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> My condolences, the bag trick cannot compete with that!


Indeed... Sweden's got great public schools though, so you're good with the bag option!


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> My daughters godmother, who's also my wife's best friend, lives in Stockholm. It's been long since I visited, maybe it's time to visit again!



If that happens, let me know!
I live downtown in Stockholm.


----------



## Tunkejazz

angpsi said:


> Indeed... Sweden's got great public schools though, so you're good with the bag option!



Yes! No tuition here. In fact private schools here are not good. 
Top grade students go to the public universities.


----------



## UntilThen

OMG I have to create a special thread for both of you.

Its call HiFi kids and wives


----------



## Tunkejazz

hahahahahaha, sorry for that, I will shut up now with this!


----------



## angpsi (Jul 10, 2017)

Me too! I'm definitely going to bed now, see you tomorrow!

Btw, quite the opposite here in Greece with secondary education, although tertiary education is definitely public and well regarded against private institutions. I actually teach Interior Architecture in Athens at a public university; and, in fact, my last visit to Stockholm was attending a conference at KTH. So I agree with you first hand, you really do have great public universities!


----------



## UntilThen

Nah its ok. You can talk and I am enjoying it as a parent. Trust me.


----------



## UntilThen

I've move on. 

This is the new thread started by me. I am not compelling anyone to switch over but if you choose to, you're most welcome. Whatever you choose to do, I'm always contactable for any queries regarding Elise and Euforia. Take care and good luck.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-tube-amps.854783/


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> So after many posts I'm back to buying it again and I will have to put up with another Oskari's remarks. Remember O, this is the LAST or UT's not my name.


Ha! I'm not buying any of this.


----------



## connieflyer

And how right you are!


----------



## aqsw

Went to a meet yesterday. Alot of nice gear. Took the Euforia ( stock tubes) and the Hegel dac. Got to try out the yggy and rag. Huge footprint, loads of power, sterile sounding., expensive. No thanks, I will keep my lowly system. I loved the 800s with the Euforia. Lots of slam, great soundstage.

Everybody was impressed with the soundstage of the Euforia. 


Overall, very good comments on the system.


----------



## angpsi

aqsw said:


> Went to a meet yesterday. Alot of nice gear. Took the Euforia ( stock tubes) and the Hegel dac. Got to try out the yggy and rag. Huge footprint, loads of power, sterile sounding., expensive. No thanks, I will keep my lowly system. I loved the 800s with the Euforia. Lots of slam, great soundstage.
> 
> Everybody was impressed with the soundstage of the Euforia.
> 
> ...


Did you try Yggy with Euforia? Always been a fan of Hegel though I never owned one. How does it fare against the Yggdrasil?


----------



## aqsw

No, I did not switch out dacs. The yggy and rag were a pair. The Hegel is a very good dac, but I would put the yggy a step up from the Hegel. The price difference and the footprint of the Yggy
Is the killer for me though.. I have a tube dac that is less expensive that I believe is better than the Yggy, although the footprint is much bigger than the Hegel.

The HegelHD12 just pairs so well with Feliks amps. They are the same size, black, no air openings on the top so you can stack them.
Aesthically stunning.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 17, 2017)

aqsw said:


> Went to a meet yesterday. Alot of nice gear. Took the Euforia ( stock tubes) and the Hegel dac. Got to try out the yggy and rag. Huge footprint, loads of power, sterile sounding., expensive. No thanks, I will keep my lowly system. I loved the 800s with the Euforia. Lots of slam, great soundstage.



A few things I like to comment on here. When I was at the Sydney meet in April 2017, I listen to Yggdrasil and Ragnarok with HD800 for the first time, with music unfamiliar to me. This immediately after listening to a 'borrowed' pair of HD800 and listening to it on Euforia. Jumping from Euforia to the Yggy and Rag combination, I too came to the same conclusion as you. That it is clinical and analytical. I wouldn't call it sterile because that combo is impressive in it's resolution and fast transient response.

Fast forward a few months later, I went to Addicted To Audio to audition Yggy / Rggy / HD800 again. This time I put aside any preconceived ideas and bias. I was pleasantly surprise how good 'Sultans of Swing' sounded that day. There is a liquidity and even wetness to the tone. HD800 from that combo sounded very clear and detailed and yet very natural. I imagine that the setup will be very ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings.

I have long been a tube amp lover, in particular Elise and Euforia. However I am beginning to see the Yggy Rggy and HD800 in a new light now. I can't believe that my once 'sterile' impressions of ss amp have changed to one of admiration and love. It's a different tone for sure but not one to discard as 'sterile'. If anything, it has great clarity and details, fast transient response and great slam too with your rock and roll. Haven't even tried classical with it.

Lastly, I cannot agree more with you on the last statement. HD800 sounds great with Euforia, fed by Yggy.... for me and my ears. It's my end game sound. Lots of slam and headstage is just one aspect of it. It's very refined when called for too. I still see HD800 as a TOTL headphone, even today.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've cleaned up some of the recent posts in this thread. Please make sure that all posts are sticking to our Posting Guidelines.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi all.

Firstly, it saddens me that whenever I (unavoidably) turn my back for a while, things seem to go haywire.

I had thought we'd reached an understanding where ALL opinions - within reason! - would be treated with respect and equanimity, and therefore removing any need to 'defend' any member's difference of opinions/personal preferences. I fully understand the strength of emotion our hobby can generate, but this does indeed require a certain balance in attitude regarding our own individual circumstances, as opposed to others'. This quality is what has, in the main, made all the Feliks-Audio threads some of the most popular and welcoming within Head-fi, from the very first one I started for Elise some years ago. It is my fervent hope that this spirit will in fact continue long into the future - not only for our own sakes, but also for that of Feliks-Audio themselves lol!

And now for something a bit more cheerful...PICTURES OF THE F-A TEAM FROM CANJAM LONDON...


 

That's Lukasz far right, with his lovely wife and brothers Michal and Piotrek. Dad Henryk wasn't able to make it to the show alas, but at least we were able to see each other on Lukasz's 'phone!

I was not expecting them all to be so *young*...an obvious sign of my own ageing years lol!... But their skills, knowledge and total dedication to their craft belies _their_ years, and has taken my amazement at their achievements to even greater heights than previously, not to mention my undying respect. I feel privileged that they welcomed me with such genuine warmth - they are all a wonderful bunch of guys (not forgetting the gal!). They even wanted me in a picture with them...which I feel duty bound to inflict on you all, like it or not!  ....:



The balding one is me, of course, along with highly regarded from LittleDot days, Acapella11...who inspired me to keep pushing the boundaries in tube amp land....for better or worse!!!

Anyway, enough of that...I'm glad to say Lukasz was very pleased with the entire venture - their first foray into such a show outside their native Poland. Although Sunday - the day I was there - was an unfortunate one, given the Wimbledon Men's Finals and the Silverstone F1 Grand Prix!, there was still a good bit of interest at their stand, which was very encouraging. And apparently, the Saturday was even better. 

So hopefully, this will give them deserved further coverage of their enterprise, and provide well-deserved joy and satisfaction for their hard efforts...especially to Pop Henryk, of course!

Meeting them in person was the highlight of my year so far, and my only regret is that due to my train delay, I had very little time to spend with them (and to see much else at the show). But their friendliness and warm welcome more than made up for that, and for which I'm eternally grateful. And in addition, my disappointment was also assuaged by the gift of one of their really nice headphone stands...which are even nicer "in the flesh" than in the pictures. The quality of wood used, and the workmanship, are absolutely beautiful...and I've just got to also show a couple of pictures of it here... :



Ah well, better give you all a rest for now...but there are a couple of very positive impressions of Elise and Euforia (the latter referred to as '4') over at the follow-on thread for CanJam London :https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...d-july-15-16-2017.855275/page-6#post-13607368

Cheers for now guys, and....HAPPY LISTENING!!...


----------



## aqsw

Well said H1. I was not trying to start anything. I just stated my opinion after listening to all the amps and dacs.
That cannot be said about UT, as I'm sure he has not listened  to the Space Tech or Hegel. I was not upset at the beginning , but then after Re reading his posts I am a little peeved now.


----------



## pctazhp

WOW H1  Your post with pictures is the best and most fun FA post I have ever read. I'm so glad you got to meet everyone, even if your visit was shortened. Of course, I'm a little jealous I wasn't able to be there. Maybe next year!!!!

PS. You certainly are the handsome devil


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Well said H1. I was not trying to start anything. I just stated my opinion after listening to all the amps and dacs.
> That cannot be said about UT, as I'm sure he has not listened  to the Space Tech or Hegel. I was not upset at the beginning , but then after Re reading his posts I am a little peeved now.


Ah well, aqsw, such can be the way of things sometimes in this passionate hobby of ours...a "little peeved", like spilled milk, can go a _long_ way...I hope you can manage to get the mop to it nice and quickly lol! ...(as I myself have had to do on *many* occasions these past years, mon ami!! ). Keep the faith...and ENJOY!!...[/QUOTE]


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> WOW H1  Your post with pictures is the best and most fun FA post I have ever read. I'm so glad you got to meet everyone, even if your visit was shortened. Of course, I'm a little jealous I wasn't able to be there. Maybe next year!!!!
> 
> PS. You certainly are the handsome devil



Thanks mucho, pct....but when did you last have your eyes tested, ol' boy?!...Whatever, I shall take the compliment anyway, even if you _are _looking at the wrong guy!...(puts a nice smile on my face however, as I head for early zzzzzzzz. Trips to the "smoke" take longer to get over these days lol!).


----------



## angpsi (Jul 19, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Firstly, it saddens me that whenever I (unavoidably) turn my back for a while, things seem to go haywire.
> 
> ...





hypnos1 said:


> Thanks mucho, pct....but when did you last have your eyes tested, ol' boy?!...Whatever, I shall take the compliment anyway, even if you _are _looking at the wrong guy!...(puts a nice smile on my face however, as I head for early zzzzzzzz. Trips to the "smoke" take longer to get over these days lol!).


This was a genuine milestone for me, to put a face on all the familiar screen or actual names I've been reading about, interacting with, and enjoying their contributions here on the FA threads. And of course this includes the Feliks family who I feel so familiar with through their work, passion, and warm support. So thanks @hypnos1 for starting all of this, and for being able to be present to report to us from London Can Jam. Now, I really hope you get your Hugo2 and report once again about its sonic qualities. It really is gold for those of us who can't afford this level of gear (yet). Btw, did you hear I'm getting a Mimby?

PS. I keep thinking about you when I'm listening to my Elise nowadays. The sound coming out of the GEC 6080 / Sylvania 6sn7w reminds me so much of the signature I got from the TFK EL12 / EL11 combo, only this time my ears don't hurt!


----------



## aqsw

Oh, and thank you to  everybody who stuck up for me. Even if you are sceptical of what I stated, at least you respected my opinion.

Regards


----------



## connieflyer

I felt strongly concerning the statements made about you AQ SW, unfortunately I have not learned my lesson. Never did leave anything on the table if you know what I mean all the best and good luck


----------



## JazzVinyl

My only encounter with Yggy:

The Yggy and an "almost bottom of the line" dac by the same manufacturer were the two dacs .we did blind testing with at a meet I attended last year.

35% of the blind listeners thought the Yggy sounded better than the "near bottom of the line" dac by the same manufacturer.

35% of the blind listeners preferred the lower end dac.  And 25% said they could not discern a noticable difference, while 5% issued no definitive opinion. 

Everyone who submitted to the test agreed when looking the two DAC's that surely Yggy would be vastly superior (because it's impressively large size and being so very much more expensive).  

The 35% who did prefer Yggy, said the difference was surprisingly subtle, and agreed that Yggy was noticeably better during softer musical passages.  Almost all who prferrred Yggy were classical music afficiandos.

If you can afford one, and have the desk space, and can appreciate its musical nuances...

I say:  more power to ya.

Cheers....


----------



## Oskari

JazzVinyl said:


> My only encounter with Yggy:
> 
> The Yggy and an "almost bottom of the line" dac by the same manufacturer were the two dacs .we did blind testing with at a meet I attended last year.
> 
> ...



My understanding of that: 0.


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 20, 2017)

It is interesting reading the reviews from that last can jam that people that tried the yggy said that it was a very fine sounding dac very clear and concise but sterile. That last word sterile sticks in my mind thinking that is not what music is all about music is about the passion and emotion not just how perfect the wave form is. I am glad that I got the Gumby and not spent the extra on getting the Yggy


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 20, 2017)

JV, while the article that you quote from is interesting it really doesn't prove much other than people's hearing is different. Some people would be put off by the size of it if they're used to using a dragonfly 2 and may not appreciate the extra supposed benefits of the higher-priced dac your visual acuity will also lead you to buy one piece or the other. If you did nothing but a blind test and whatever they chose is the best one, you put all the ingredients in one square black box that you could not differentiate from any of the other and that's the way they were all sold, people would naturally just go for whichever one sounded best of them and they'll buy the one for $50 or $500 it wouldn't matter to them. But design Style and the company's reputation also go into that. I recently tried a dac from a company in China That was supposed to be quite good it was the ladder dac, I thought okay I'll give that a shot it wasn't such a good shot. When I went with the Schiit Gumby I have been very satisfied especially with the customer service. To me that's worth at least 25% of my decision knowing the company is going to back their product. The Euforia amp sounds much better to me than the Elise amp, can I hear the difference between the two, yes do I know that the Euphoria has upgraded parts yes I know that can I hear them I could not pick out an individual resistor, capacitor that made a difference but the sum total of the package definitely made a difference. I rate the design quite highly for what you get for the money that you pay. My problem is the length of the supply chain if you have to send it back for service you've got a week both ways for Transit Plus the hundred and some dollars to ship it back then you have to figure how long is it going to be tied up before they get it fixed. The guy in Australia had to wait quite awhile for the Elise to be fixed, that bothers me and this last episode of mine with the fuse blowing and having to scramble around trying to find a fuse is that user-replaceable the company should have included a spare fuse whether you ever needed it or not cheap insurance, so you'd have one. But that all goes into making up your mind is this product worthwhile, is it better does it sound better, you can make that determination, but there's other things that go into mix before you throw your money down


----------



## connieflyer

Here is some music for your morning coffee or tea  slow down @hypnos1


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> It is interesting reading the reviews from that last can jam that people that tried the yggy said that it was a very fine sounding dac very clear and concise but sterile. That last word sterile sticks in my mind thinking that is not what music is all about music is about the passion and emotion not just how perfect the wave form is. I am glad that I got the Gumby and not spent the extra on getting the Yggy


Apparently some people feel the same about the Hugo vs. the Mojo, opposite to the Hugo2! Here's an excerpt from @flinkenick's impressions from CanJam London:



> (...) But the greatest surprise of the show for me, was the *Chord Hugo 2*. The original Hugo was widely praised, although some people felt its signature was slightly too neutral, and somewhat void of warmth. For some people it could feel a bit sterile, for instance when compared to the warmer Mojo. While Chord kept the excellent technical performance in terms of its three-dimensional stage, resolution, and transparency, they added just a _touch_ of warmth to its signature. Mind you, the Hugo 2 isn’t warm enough to be predominantly classified as such; but the tuning adds an essential smoothness and musicality to the sound. Based on the brief session its signature seemed comparable to Kuos RealAmp, although they differed in stage and performance. But again, what I would describe as ‘beautifully neutral’: a relatively neutral tone and clean sound, yet with an overall smooth and musical signature. The quality ran throughout its presentation, from its resolved mid-bass, to the coherent midrange, and up to its refined treble presentation – a worthy alternative to my warmer Sony and AK. I went to the show dreading I would spend my savings on the new AK, but left thinking they might be redirected to the Hugo 2. (...)


----------



## pctazhp

CF:  Thanks for the nice morning music, even if I'm not H1 !!!

I think the situation JV was referring to was a blind test at a meet he attended. I assume no one could tell which DAC they were listening to. I've read of other situations where people had problems for example choosing which DAC they were listening to in a blind comparison between Yggy and Gumby multibit. I've never personally participated in a blind test.

I personally feel each purchase I make boils down to an emotional choice. That doesn't mean I think I make bad choices, but that as you say a lot goes into preference for a particular product beyond perceived SQ.


----------



## connieflyer

The only blind test I was involved with did not work out so well. She was described "slightly" different from what was presented.  I am sure she felt the same way!  Oh wait you were talking about audio, so sorry, but then you are not H1 so it doesn't matter!


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> JV, while the article that you quote from is interesting it really doesn't prove much other than people's hearing is different. Some people would be put off by the size of it if they're used to using a dragonfly 2 and may not appreciate the extra supposed benefits of the higher-priced dac your visual acuity will also lead you to buy one piece or the other. If you did nothing but a blind test and whatever they chose is the best one, you put all the ingredients in one square black box that you could not differentiate from any of the other and that's the way they were all sold, people would naturally just go for whichever one sounded best of them and they'll buy the one for $50 or $500 it wouldn't matter to them. But design Style and the company's reputation also go into that. I recently tried a dac from a company in China That was supposed to be quite good it was the ladder dac, I thought okay I'll give that a shot it wasn't such a good shot. When I went with the Schiit Gumby I have been very satisfied especially with the customer service. To me that's worth at least 25% of my decision knowing the company is going to back their product. The Euforia amp sounds much better to me than the Elise amp, can I hear the difference between the two, yes do I know that the Euphoria has upgraded parts yes I know that can I hear them I could not pick out an individual resistor, capacitor that made a difference but the sum total of the package definitely made a difference. I rate the design quite highly for what you get for the money that you pay. My problem is the length of the supply chain if you have to send it back for service you've got a week both ways for Transit Plus the hundred and some dollars to ship it back then you have to figure how long is it going to be tied up before they get it fixed. The guy in Australia had to wait quite awhile for the Elise to be fixed, that bothers me and this last episode of mine with the fuse blowing and having to scramble around trying to find a fuse is that user-replaceable the company should have included a spare fuse whether you ever needed it or not cheap insurance, so you'd have one. But that all goes into making up your mind is this product worthwhile, is it better does it sound better, you can make that determination, but there's other things that go into mix before you throw your money down


Good point, and as an architect I concur! I can't begin to tell you how many times a client's aesthetic experience clouds the performance side of their decisions!


----------



## Tunkejazz

I think I have hit the jackpot with tube combinations 

After trying all possible combos with:
Drivers: Ken Rad 6SN7GT, Sylvania 6SN7GT '52 Bad Boys, Sylvania 6SN7WGT, and PSVANE
Power: Svetlanas, GEC 6080.

I just could not be totally satisfied with the sound of any combination. Sometimes too dry, sometimes too rich and soft.

Based on my own experience with a Project Ember, I decided to give a go to my favourite tubes with that amp: Raytheon 6SN7GT. There are several different constructions of this tube. I am using flat black plates with support rods (see picture, not to be confused with the one with ribbed plates!). With the GEC's they pair amazingly! Much better in my opinion than all the other ones. The bass has much better definition and depth, keeping everything very dynamic and detailed, no hint of harshness with HE400i and HD650 (both Kameleonized).

I have seen that some of you have tried the Raytheon, but I am not sure with the same construction. I think it is a killer combo and these tubes are highly overlooked. Not extremely expensive, but not cheap either.


----------



## connieflyer

I have not tried the Raytheon six ns7 GTS I have tried the Raytheon 6080 WB and they are a great tube. Almost to the same extent as a gec 6080.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> I have not tried the Raytheon six ns7 GTS I have tried the Raytheon 6080 WB and they are a great tube. Almost to the same extent as a gec 6080.[/QUOTE
> 
> Connnieflyer, how does Raytheon look like, regular 6080 type or Bendix 6080wb? I have regular type labeled 6080wa, WB or WC. Also have Bendix type, not slotted nor solid graphic support. More of Regular fin type vertical with Bendix type small metal tags


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> I have not tried the Raytheon six ns7 GTS I have tried the Raytheon 6080 WB and they are a great tube. Almost to the same extent as a gec 6080.


----------



## connieflyer

Those are the ones, I really enjoyed them, I have three of them, bought a spare I liked them so much.  Now with the GEC 6080,6as7, and all the rest will be selling off these and others to thin the herd.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Those are the ones, I really enjoyed them, I have three of them, bought a spare I liked them so much.  Now with the GEC 6080,6as7, and all the rest will be selling off these and others to *thin the herd*.



I personally keep my herd lean and mean, and sing lullabies to it each night. Well, at least I keep it someplace where I can usually remember where to find it.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> Those are the ones, I really enjoyed them, I have three of them, bought a spare I liked them so much.  Now with the GEC 6080,6as7, and all the rest will be selling off these and others to thin the herd.



Thanks. Good to know. Have not seen much mention of these tubes. I have only used them in DV 336. Hard to judge.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Those are the ones, I really enjoyed them, I have three of them, bought a spare I liked them so much.  Now with the GEC 6080,6as7, and all the rest will be selling off these and others to thin the herd.


Hi CF,
Please send me a pm if you want to sell the Raytheons - thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

Will do


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 20, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Here is some music for your morning coffee or tea  slow down @hypnos1




Thanks cf...just the ticket lol!!..(but with company staying over this coming weekend, plus the need to reterminate my pure silver coax cable from the Naim server to the Hugo 2's *3.5mm jack in* - why, oh why can't folks stick with the easy RCA lol?!! - methinks my Loreena McKennitt (ripped to SSD) CDs are going to be soothing my fevered brow the next couple of (late) nights!!!  ...)....CHEERS!...



angpsi said:


> Apparently some people feel the same about the Hugo vs. the Mojo, opposite to the Hugo2! Here's an excerpt from @flinkenick's impressions from CanJam London:



Well, angpsi, your post is very timely, mon ami...tomorrow I should receive my own Hugo2..._*not*_ based upon blind tests, alas!...just an A/B with the mojo and my current tube DAC (which way outperforms my previous £1000 Audiolab 8200CD/DAC). Am hoping the review you quoted is indeed an accurate one...but in the final analysis, of course, the *only* truly valid result can be how *any *piece of equipment performs in one's own unique environment and with associated gear...let alone unique ears/brain interpretation/preferences/bias etc. etc. etc. !!!...

I shall try my utmost to be 100% objective and impartial...no guarantees, mind!! ...(probably have to wait 'til Monday though, I'm afraid......).


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jul 20, 2017)

myphone said:


>



Those "short bottle" are not as common as the tall ones, right?  I have not seen that construction so often on eBay. Where did you source them?


----------



## pctazhp

Great new excitement. H1 is expecting his Hugo2 and CF is expecting his Eatter. Looking forward to reports on both.

My big excitement is I'm increasingly settling of a small number of preferred tube combos and it doesn't seem to matter which one I'm using. They all sound great on Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

Hmmmm is that what I bought?  Just what I need, now I have to feed someone else.  One just for you PCT .


----------



## pctazhp

CF:  Many, many years ago I saw Tanya live at a small county rodeo in southwest Colorado. Part of the time they were together she and Glen Campbell lived here in Phoenix. Never was a great fan of hers, but like your video.

Here's one for you


----------



## connieflyer

Nice version, looks like we have this to ourselves, like old times!  Here's one for you..


----------



## pctazhp

Yeah. I remember those days. Good times. Elise brought you and I together, and now you are a true and good friend. 

I love that version of Sounds of Silence. Never have seen it before. S&G released it when I was in college and it has always been a favorite of mine. It was a stroke of genius to include it in The Graduate.It is one of a hand full of songs that I never tire of hearing..

This is another one.


----------



## connieflyer

Well, it looks like I have run out of time......


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 20, 2017)

I would love to attend a live performance of the Morman Tabernacle Choir, they have quite a sound.  Of course Hans Zimmer is one of my favorite's  This is one of my favorite performances of the Choir


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I would love to attend a live performance of the Morman Tabernacle Choir, they have quite a sound.  Of course Hans Zimmer is one of my favorite's



Maybe someday we'll do it together. Have a nice evening ))))


----------



## myphone

Tunkejazz said:


> Those "short bottle" are not as common as the tall ones, right?  I have not seen that construction so often on eBay. Where did you source them?



From Ebay (USA). I don't have much information about them. Yes. It is about 1 cm shorter than the slotted and solid graphic ones (measured after reading your post)

One of the tubes base broke during shipping (really old and friable). The seller waives money for the broken tube after i showed the picture. 

Both tubes test and work fine. A bit scary to handle without good bases.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> JV, while the article that you quote from is interesting it really doesn't prove much other than people's hearing is different. Some people would be put off by the size of it if they're used to using a dragonfly 2 and may not appreciate the extra supposed benefits of the higher-priced dac your visual acuity will also lead you to buy one piece or the other. If you did nothing but a blind test and whatever they chose is the best one, you put all the ingredients in one square black box that you could not differentiate from any of the other and that's the way they were all sold, people would naturally just go for whichever one sounded best of them and they'll buy the one for $50 or $500 it wouldn't matter to them. But design Style and the company's reputation also go into that. I recently tried a dac from a company in China That was supposed to be quite good it was the ladder dac, I thought okay I'll give that a shot it wasn't such a good shot. When I went with the Schiit Gumby I have been very satisfied especially with the customer service. To me that's worth at least 25% of my decision knowing the company is going to back their product. The Euforia amp sounds much better to me than the Elise amp, can I hear the difference between the two, yes do I know that the Euphoria has upgraded parts yes I know that can I hear them I could not pick out an individual resistor, capacitor that made a difference but the sum total of the package definitely made a difference. I rate the design quite highly for what you get for the money that you pay. My problem is the length of the supply chain if you have to send it back for service you've got a week both ways for Transit Plus the hundred and some dollars to ship it back then you have to figure how long is it going to be tied up before they get it fixed. The guy in Australia had to wait quite awhile for the Elise to be fixed, that bothers me and this last episode of mine with the fuse blowing and having to scramble around trying to find a fuse is that user-replaceable the company should have included a spare fuse whether you ever needed it or not cheap insurance, so you'd have one. But that all goes into making up your mind is this product worthwhile, is it better does it sound better, you can make that determination, but there's other things that go into mix before you throw your money down



Hello CF...I was not quoting an article, I was telling a story about what actually happened.  For me, (in blind testing) I thought Yggy was slightly better than the much lower end dac, but I would not be willing to pay the difference for the amount of sonic gain.  

I too (I think we agree here) like a "warmer" dac sound, to a colder, (and possibly more accurate one?).

Also agree wholeheardtly about the FA offerings and the situation where it might need servicing, it's a long long and expensive trip back to Poland.  Too bad they don't have service agreements in the countries they intend to sell in.

My biggest problem with Elise was the heat.  Needed a fan.  Many of my circuit boards looked and smelled like burnt electronics, very early on.  I noted within the first week of ownership that it smelled like burnt electronic.  Surely a small fan (or out boarding of the transformer) is needed to keep the heat down so as not to cook the electronics and/or boards inside.

Your fuse blowing is not normal....any idea what caused it?

Glad you got it sorted.

Take Care....


----------



## pctazhp

My experience with heat and Elise was different. I never detected any burnt smell, and while the tubes were often hot, as they are on any tube amp, the chassis never seemed unusually hot to me. This a picture of the bottom of the Elise I'm selling, and it doesn't look like any internal damage was done after a year and a half of usage.. I have not opened it up, so don't know for sure what it looks like inside.


----------



## Althalus

Hi H1, 

I noticed more than one picture of you on the FA site. 
Congrats. 

Althalus


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> My experience with heat and Elise was different. I never detected any burnt smell, and while the tubes were often hot, as they are on any tube amp, the chassis never seemed unusually hot to me. This a picture of the bottom of the Elise I'm selling, and it doesn't look like any internal damage was done after a year and a half of usage.. I have not opened it up, so don't know for sure what it looks like inside.



I am happy for you, if yours didn't suffer from the heat.  

Mine has melted plastic (or vinyl) resister/capacitor lead coverings, many resistors got so hot that you cannot read the color bands anymore (and certainly appear to be physically deteriorating from the heat.   

Later production amps have several good sized holes drilled in the board seen in your photo, to allow heat to rise up and pass through this area.  That tells me FA is aware of the heat buildup problem.

Mine still works, too, but for how long?  In my case, I do wish I had added a small fan to carry heat away.  

Using the external Transformer, was the answer to keep mine from completely failing.  Deck and innards MUCH cooler when not using the internal transformer to supply the heater currents.

In your picture, you would know a lot more about the internal condition, by removing the bottom panel and taking a closer look.

I paid the small intro price for Elise and certainly got my moneys worth of enjoyment out of it.  

If I could have changed something about its design, it would have been a Transformer that was not enclosed under the cover.  Mount he Transformer on top deck where it can dissipate its heat in to the air and keep the innards much cooler,  as in the Glenn designs (and most classic 1940's/50's designs)...many air holes along the sides as found in the Darkvoice, would also have helped...if not these two items, a small fan should have been mandatory, IMHO.

Cheers.


----------



## pctazhp

JazzVinyl said:


> In your picture, you would know a lot more about the internal condition, by removing the bottom panel and taking a closer look.



That level of technical expertise is way above my pay grade


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> That level of technical expertise is way above my pay grade


Re the heat problem with the Elise, I thought of it early on and installed octal socket savers in all four sockets. In addition to saving wear and tear on the sockets during frequent tube rolling, these socket savers act as insulators and substantially reduce the heat transfer from the tube to the chassis.
In addition to this, since Feliks Audio recommends that the amp should have at least three feet of air space above it, I mounted a 4" computer fan above the amp in my equipment rack where I keep it.


----------



## JazzVinyl

pctazhp said:


> That level of technical expertise is way above my pay grade



No problem....don't worry about it...and...

Enjoy!

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> Re the heat problem with the Elise, I thought of it early on and installed octal socket savers in all four sockets. In addition to saving wear and tear on the sockets during frequent tube rolling, these socket savers act as insulators and substantially reduce the heat transfer from the tube to the chassis.
> In addition to this, since Feliks Audio recommends that the amp should have at least three feet of air space above it, I mounted a 4" computer fan above the amp in my equipment rack where I keep it.



Yes, Mordy and I think that was the right thing to do, as well.  Between that and your fan you were "heat problems free"  

Wise moves!!

Cheers!


----------



## connieflyer

What I have garnered over the last year was that the heat problem had been mentioned to the father, but he did not want any fan on the amp nor cooling ducts on the trans housing, he wanted everything to be minimalistic that is why they changed to a small white led and no paint markings on the dial or knob. However they did incorporate larger air vents in the deck behind the tubes.  My thoughts would have been more in line with the idea of putting louvers on the back of the transformer housing.  You would not see them for the most part and would definatly help air flow. If I still have this amp when the warranty runs out I am going to do just that. Design over function is fine on some things but electronics that heat up is not one of them. Simple engineering would show you that. The back of the transformer housing would be a perfect place to put the air direction, heat rises so it has to move inside the transformer housing as well as heat generated by the trans itself. Even just cutting slots in the back, like the ones on the deck would help.


----------



## myphone

Tried to have a bit more bass on Andrea Bocelli songs, I put in KenRad VT231 (staggered plates) to pair with 5998 and T1. To my surprise, the combo sounded horrible, shouting highs, hollow mids and one note thumping bass. Voice was smeared and diffused. Totally unexpected.

Kept 5998 in, replaced KenRad  Sylvania 6SN7GT and RCA VT231 back. Beautiful balanced sound   returned

Kept KenRad VT231 in, and replaced 5998 with GEC 6080, Beautiful balanced sound returned .


----------



## connieflyer

Am using RCA 6sn7 gt 1948 version with GEC 6as7g's and the sound is to die for. Like the sound very much. Rich full bodied top to bottom. The GEC 6080's sounded very close to this combo.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I have been comparing the GEC 6080 and TS 6AS7G (the plain one, not 5998 type) as power tubes.
The latter is very good in my opinion, a bit more bass presence, less extended than GEC in the upper end, but I think it give a bit more "weight" to the sound with a tad more bass quantity. Mids are very good. Lovely, for only 35 EUR (the TS)!!

EDIT: drivers are Raytheon 6SN7GT.


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Great new excitement. H1 is expecting his Hugo2 and CF is expecting his Eatter. Looking forward to reports on both.
> 
> My big excitement is I'm increasingly settling of a small number of preferred tube combos and it doesn't seem to matter which one I'm using. They all sound great on Euforia.



Well pct, at the moment my own excitement would seem to very possibly be a double-edged sword. Given I haven't yet had time to reterminate my coax cable from the Naim, I thought I'd just make sure this thing actually works, using an inferior feed...ie. optical out from my laptop, and straight out to the T1s - this beauty also being an amp, of course. All I can say right now already is that when fed properly, this Hugo2 will either make my Euforia totally redundant, or when used purely as DAC for her, take her to a level I could only dream of...it's *that* good!!

Still very early days, of course, so I shan't even bother trying to give a more in-depth assessment, but this coming week is going to be an extremely interesting one for me...and perhaps one or two others lol?! ...(a shame the next 2 days are spoken for...life just ain't fair sometimes!!). Cheers for now...CJ


Althalus said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> I noticed more than one picture of you on the FA site.
> Congrats.
> ...



Hi Althalus, and thanks...sure you aren't mistaking me for another guy, just like poor ol' pct lol?!! ...

And apologies for not welcoming you properly before - my eyes have been off the ball a bit recently, but hope to be back on track soon!! ...and so, WELCOME to Feliks-Audio land and to our great community.

Speak again soon....time for zzzzzzzzzzzz

BFN guys


----------



## connieflyer

Boy, H1 you are either gardening or sleeping, when do you relax with the music?!!


----------



## connieflyer

PCT here is a singer that can take the Euforia to good places  check her out at 4:08 she really belts if out


----------



## pctazhp

I like her a lot CF. I don't have anything to offer tonight that would even come close.

Been listening with Sylvania 6SN7-WGT and GEC 6AS7G. Wonderful combo. One of my GECs still has occasional static. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. One of the few tubes I've ever had any problem with. Fortunately, the static usually goes away after its been on for about 5 minutes, or until I apply the gentle flick of the finger fix.

H1, that is very exciting news about the Hugo2. With its solid state amp, you have now joined the very exclusive Solid State or OTL Depending on Your Mood Club. Hope it does take Euforia to new heights. I can't bear the thought that Euforia might become "redundant" !!! 

Finally, Althalus let me also offer my enthusiastic hello. You've definitely come to the right place


----------



## Althalus

hypnos1 said:


> And apologies for not welcoming you properly before





pctazhp said:


> Finally, Althalus let me also offer my enthusiastic hello. You've definitely come to the right place



Wow, what a welcome from you all. Everyone is very kind in this forum, thanks. And of course also thanks to all the other people who already welcomed me and started giving me advice. 
Althalus


----------



## Althalus

I have just some questions. 
After reading something about heat and octal socket savers. Do I need them for my Euforia?

Maybe not really a question, I read somewhere I should not insert the tubes completely into the sockets but leave a little room to get a screwdriver under it so I can always get the tubes out of the socket when they like the amp too much and hang on to it. 

Are there more Tricks I need to know of?

Althalus


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Boy, H1 you are either gardening or sleeping, when do you relax with the music?!!



Good question, cf...they are usually "stolen moments" I'm afraid...hence my (long!) history of 'Midnight missives" lol!! ....Plus, I really do need my "beauty" sleep, alas! 



pctazhp said:


> I like her a lot CF. I don't have anything to offer tonight that would even come close.
> 
> Been listening with Sylvania 6SN7-WGT and GEC 6AS7G. Wonderful combo. One of my GECs still has occasional static. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. One of the few tubes I've ever had any problem with. Fortunately, the static usually goes away after its been on for about 5 minutes, or until I apply the gentle flick of the finger fix.
> 
> ...



I too will keep my fingers AND toes crossed for your GEC tube, pct...some of these old "Coke" tubes can indeed prove a little "troublesome", unfortunately. I believe this was _one_ of the reasons for later development of the straight-sided 6080-type tubes? Whatever, I personally still prefer the "ST" shape tubes' sound, in the main!

Re, the solid state circuitry of the H2, the amazing flexibility of the FPGA (Field-Programmable Gate Array) digital technology allows (apparently) designers to achieve hitherto unknown possibilities in all manner of applications - audio being just one of them. And Chord's genius circuit designer, Rob Watts, has spent many years developing the "coding" and implementation of this futuristic tech, culminating in the industry-leading sampling rates of his "Pulse Array" design....(this being a disgustingly brief and simplistic attempt at just what's actually going on here lol!!).
Anyway, all that really matters is how his efforts end up *sounding* - and in short, once again, he's managed to achieve a very *un*-SS type of sound...compared to the 'typical' SS presentation usually referred to (but which is changing fast with some of the modern, high quality amps!). Hence my slight agitation at what I heard straight out to my T1s - a sound less "SS-like" than some tubes I've heard in the past lol!!!...quite uncanny, actually. And I'm quite sure this is also helped by the fact that the latest FPGA chips used are able to output such power that an additional OP amp isn't needed, which can only be good news!! The fact that this DAC/AMP can also run perfectly from its battery - no mains gremlins!! - must be another plus.

And so things are looking like possible game changers in the next week or 2...watch this space! ...


----------



## connieflyer

Well sadly, as good as the Hugo2 may sound compared to the euphoria, I am afraid with all the investment I have in tubes that I'll have to stay with this for a while. I hope that it works out to Beyond Your Wildest imagination, and that you have this hard thing to do whenever you want to listen to music which amp do I listen to I'm sorry! Good luck with that h and please keep us in the news, even if that means we may have to look at a new amplifier as well, take good care of yourself my friend.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Well sadly, as good as the Hugo2 may sound compared to the euphoria, I am afraid with all the investment I have in tubes that I'll have to stay with this for a while. I hope that it works out to Beyond Your Wildest imagination, and that you have this hard thing to do whenever you want to listen to music which amp do I listen to I'm sorry! Good luck with that h and please keep us in the news, even if that means we may have to look at a new amplifier as well, take good care of yourself my friend.



"OTLs rule. Always have. Always will" - pctazhp July 22, 2017.   Keep the faith Brother CF


----------



## connieflyer

That I will brother from a different mother! Gee, I hope that is not offense to a moderator!  I forgot how sensitive they can be!


----------



## connieflyer

I think I am done buying tubes for now, need to add to the game room decor, so since I don't have a basket hilt, I think I may order one of these.  https://www.theknightshop.com/brass-basket-hilt-sword-ca-1700


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I think I am done buying tubes for now, need to add to the game room decor, so since I don't have a basket hilt, I think I may order one of these.  https://www.theknightshop.com/brass-basket-hilt-sword-ca-1700


----------



## connieflyer

Until you have used one, the fun is just not there!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Until you have used one, the fun is just not there!



If it's all the same to you I'll pass on the sword and buy a replacement head for my electric toothbrush instead. Now were talking real fun !!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Just a quick farewell.....


----------



## connieflyer

This will soothe your troubled mind, at least until you hear the "Connie" overhead again!


----------



## myphone

Beside beautiful sound, tube audio gears could be tailored tube-rolled to fit one's preference.


----------



## pctazhp (Jul 22, 2017)

myphone said:


> Beside beautiful sound, tube audio gears could be tailored tube-rolled to fit one's preference.



Yeah. The major drawback to solid state amps is that one is stuck with the manufacturers specific voicing based on source and headphones used, coupled with the designer's own preferences. On the other hand, I believe that it is probably difficult, if not impossible, for a manufacturer of tube amps to entirely escape the coloration that is inherent with tubes - likely due mainly to the even order harmonic distortion tubes introduce which is what attracts many to tube amps, but which also is not entirely "clean" and "neutral".

From a consumer's standpoint, there seems an infinity of choices for sources, amps and headphones. And virtually impossible to properly audition more than a handful of choices. I don't understand how many brick and mortar stores can stay in business and provide a reasonable offering of the latest and greatest.

So we all do the best we can based on our own personal preferences and budget considerations. Some have the money and interest to pursue perfection, which they never seem to find. I went through that for several decades with speaker based stereo systems, so I understand the appeal. But there are also people who set up a reasonably good system and enjoy it for decades. For me, Euforia offers great performance at a reasonable price. I've been lucky to acquire a good selection of top performing tubes. I'm at the stage of my life that I crave simplicity. I would not enjoy sitting down to listen and having to decide which amp and which headphone I'll use. And for me Euforia sounds great with a wide variety of tubes. Yes, I can detect differences, but they are not very important to me. Far more important for me is exploring new music, which is why Tidal is my main music source.


----------



## connieflyer

Yep


----------



## pctazhp

Althalus said:


> I have just some questions.
> After reading something about heat and octal socket savers. Do I need them for my Euforia?
> 
> Maybe not really a question, I read somewhere I should not insert the tubes completely into the sockets but leave a little room to get a screwdriver under it so I can always get the tubes out of the socket when they like the amp too much and hang on to it.
> ...



I've never used socket savers with Elise or Euforia and I haven't had any problems. I can't think of any other F-A amp owners who use them routinely. I think heat is not a real issue with Euforia as long as you use recommended tubes. My chassis is warm to the touch, but never hot. And socket savers really look funky. Not something I want detracting from the beauty of my Euforia.

Not inserting tubes completely into the sockets???? That's an entirely new one on me. I've never had a problem removing a fully inserted tube from Elise or Euforia and never heard about anyone else having such a problem.

Other advice? Just enjoy


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 22, 2017)

Contrary to pct, I have read that I believe on the Elise thread early last year. I believe a member had trouble removing a tube, and it was suggested to leave eniugh room to insert a small jewelers screwdriver under the tube to get it started out. I had only heard this if the socket was very tight, they do loosen up after awhile. Even the new sockets on my Euforia have loosened up some. They are not tight, just snug. Socket savers may help slightly for heat, mainly made to protect sockets from wear and tear. In all the years as a technician in the Navy,(tube era) I never had to replace a socket. Another consideration,you are puting another component in the circuit of unknown quality of construction.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> *Contrary to pct*, I have read that I believe on the Elise thread early last year. I believe a member had trouble removing a tube, and it was suggested to leave eniugh room to insert a small jewelers screwdriver under the tube to get it started out. I had only heard this if the socket was very tight, they do loosen up after awhile. Even the new sockets on my Euforia have loosened up some. They are not tight, just snug. Socket savers may help slightly for heat, mainly made to protect sockets from wear and tear. In all the years as a technician in the Navy,(tube era) I never had to replace a socket. Another consideration,you are puting another component in the circuit of unknown quality of construction.



How many times do I have to tell you that is not allowed? Wash your mouth out with soap and send me your Gumby !!!!


----------



## connieflyer

You can't handle a Gumby!!!!


----------



## Althalus

pct, cf, thank you. 

So I don't need socket savers and I will be carefull when I insert the tubes, when the sockets are tight I will leave a little space. 

Now, waiting till the doorbel rings.... sigh...
Althalus


----------



## connieflyer

One last bit of advice, when removing tubes, do so by the base not the glass.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I've never used socket savers with Elise or Euforia and I haven't had any problems. I can't think of any other F-A amp owners who use them routinely.


I generally use socket savers with Elise and I haven't had any problems. The primary reason is heat, especially with 6080s.


----------



## Oskari

Althalus said:


> So I don't need socket savers and I will be carefull when I insert the tubes, when the sockets are tight I will leave a little space.


Octal tubes and sockets are seldom a problem, but do make note of this:


connieflyer said:


> One last bit of advice, when removing tubes, do so by the base not the glass.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Contrary to pct, I have read that I believe on the Elise thread early last year. I believe a member had trouble removing a tube, and it was suggested to leave eniugh room to insert a small jewelers screwdriver under the tube to get it started out.


This might have been specifically about the C3g. Those are quite fragile.


----------



## connieflyer

I do believe you are correct. And if I'm not mistaken that was H1 that gave out that bit of advice but my mind was lucky just to remember that I heard it let alone who was the author


----------



## hypnos1

Althalus said:


> I have just some questions.
> After reading something about heat and octal socket savers. Do I need them for my Euforia?
> 
> Maybe not really a question, I read somewhere I should not insert the tubes completely into the sockets but leave a little room to get a screwdriver under it so I can always get the tubes out of the socket when they like the amp too much and hang on to it.
> ...



Hi Al...the guys have pretty well covered these topics - and as @Oskari and @connieflyer (well done!) mentioned, great care was (is!) needed especially with the C3g driver. I did also more recently mention it might be worth leaving the slight gap for levering purposes in the Euforia sockets as they are often a much tighter fit than in the Elise - most times the tubes can be manoeuvred out with gentle "rolling" while pulling, but sometimes the last bit might suddenly release with a jolt, so care is needed re. the direction in which it might travel lol!!

A lot also depends on the tubes' pins - some can have a tad wider diameter, and those of many old tubes (used, or not) need a good clean - some use a sharp knife, I personally prefer fine emery paper (or medium, then fine if really crusty lol!)...this helps keep the surface smoother for the sockets. Some also use "Deoxit", which can help minimise oxidation of the pins. If not gold plated, it also pays to check their condition from time to time - dirty pins really can be troublesome, let alone degrade sound quality, of course!

IF you do ever need to lever up a tube, just protect the amp's surface against abrasion, naturally, and work your way gradually around the entire base.

I'm sure you'll have a few more questions once you get under way, but we should be able to answer _most_ of them...hopefully lol!  But most of all, give the amp, and tubes, plenty of time to "burn in", and for your ears/brain to fully absorb and decipher the sound, which will gradually change over the first weeks. Only then will you have a good reference point for trying other tubes! IMHO, rapid swapping of tubes can be very misleading - it takes quite a long while for the brain to "readjust" to different signatures in a meaningful way. In addition, no two tubes will ever be totally identical, and sometimes the amp also needs a while to settle into variations between different tubes, even within the same family. _Accurate_ assessments require *time* to have any real validity!

But the really main thing is to ENJOY your time with this wonderful amp...hopefully without spending the endless hours (and money!) I personally have invested in this hobby over the past few years lol!!!...(it's been quite a journey, one way or another, but one I wouldn't have missed for the world...and met some really great guys along the way...).




pctazhp said:


> Yeah. The major drawback to solid state amps is that one is stuck with the manufacturers specific voicing based on source and headphones used, coupled with the designer's own preferences. On the other hand, I believe that it is probably difficult, if not impossible, for a manufacturer of tube amps to entirely escape the coloration that is inherent with tubes - likely due mainly to the even order harmonic distortion tubes introduce which is what attracts many to tube amps, but which also is not entirely "clean" and "neutral".
> 
> From a consumer's standpoint, there seems an infinity of choices for sources, amps and headphones. And virtually impossible to properly audition more than a handful of choices. I don't understand how many brick and mortar stores can stay in business and provide a reasonable offering of the latest and greatest.
> 
> So we all do the best we can based on our own personal preferences and budget considerations. Some have the money and interest to pursue perfection, which they never seem to find. I went through that for several decades with speaker based stereo systems, so I understand the appeal. But there are also people who set up a reasonably good system and enjoy it for decades. For me, Euforia offers great performance at a reasonable price. I've been lucky to acquire a good selection of top performing tubes. I'm at the stage of my life that I crave simplicity. I would not enjoy sitting down to listen and having to decide which amp and which headphone I'll use. And for me Euforia sounds great with a wide variety of tubes. Yes, I can detect differences, but they are not very important to me. Far more important for me is exploring new music, which is why Tidal is my main music source.



You are so right, pct...on all counts. As for myself, I'm quite sure your past 'bug' has been laying dormant...just to wing its way across "The Pond" straight to my door - and so I can blame YOU, my good friend, for all my recent "madness" lol!! ...

Speaking of which, after kicking out to the shops our visiting company, I managed to reterminate that coax cable (succeeding first time, miraculously...darn those tiny jacks!!) and feed the Hugo2 properly. Suffice to say, what comes straight out to the T1s is *crazy* good...this simply has to be the best (semi!) portable DAC/AMP out there...period! But your point re. the relative lack of_ flexibility_ soundwise still holds true, even though this beauty has multiple choices of "crossfeed" and filters. They just cannot (yet!) match the variations we get by trying different tubes in our tube amps - especially OTL ones.

And I'm glad to say that despite H2 doing a fair few things better straight out to the cans - ie. the usual strengths of _good_ SS, and in a way more accurate and "pure", as you mentioned - the way tubes 'play around' with/distort the signal *can* (not always!) bring another dimension entirely to the overall experience. And so it is with Euforia and my own particular tube setup. I know the element of 'familiarity' will still be strong at the moment, and I don't doubt that if I'd lived with H2 for the same length of time my views might well be different. But as it is, a special magic returned with each track I know intimately by now, and I'm pretty sure this will remain the case forever more lol, despite the fact I haven't yet put H2 properly through its paces by any means...plenty of time yet!!

At least I can say that, without question, the DAC function alone is of the highest order, and has indeed raised Euforia's game *yet again*...this amp is simply a very hard act to beat, anywhere near the price. The Feliks family have every right to be proud of their achievements...and for which I'm sure we are all extremely grateful lol! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

A little softer side for PCT


----------



## connieflyer

One fine rendition, perhaps an omen..


----------



## connieflyer

Who says China does not produce quality?!?!?  She hits some crazy notes


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer  Thanks for all the great music. Perfect for a Sunday morning. But I'm not going with that "omen" part!!!! Let's both plan to stick around for a while. I don't think it's quite yet time for either of us to be changing our zip codes quite yet (as my x-mother-in-law used to describe that going-home thing) !!!

@hypnos1 Exciting news about Hugo2. Since I first became involved in high end audio back in the early 70s there have always been many creative, dedicated designers who adopted different approaches that produced amazing products. How someone starts with basically nothing and can produce a top-performing amp, DAC, headphone, etc is so beyond my ability to conceive I don't even try. I find it amazing how humans have been able to basically start with dirt and produce all of the amazing goodies we enjoy today.


----------



## connieflyer

Just an aside PCT you have mentioned about how amazing humans can be make things out of nothing and end up with something fantastic. I have been watching the National Geographic Channel a program they called genius it is about a life's and struggles of Albert Einstein and at first I thought me might be interesting probably won't it is in fact very interesting and very enlightening. It's amazing how one can just wonder how can this be and then come up with a method to determine how it really is it was interesting how his mind worked to come up with E equals MC squared absolutely amazing but the human mind can do so many wonderful things. Music is one of them of course and music and Mathematics and physics all kind of run together when you think about it it's everything on a wave everything on a frequency of some sort. that's my thoughts for this morning and I'm sticking with them. Have the watering done already Connor nice sitting out on the deck watching the hummingbirds come in Connor was sitting on the end of the steps little while ago in a hummingbird came up sampling some of the flowers and got within about a foot of his face and just kind of sitting there in mid-air Motionless hoovering and the two of them are staring at each other I thought sure Connor was going to jump up and get them or the hummingbird was take off if they set that way for about 20 seconds just long enough for me to move try to grab the camera to get a picture of it and then of course all gone you guys have a great day so much for Sundays


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks CF. I'll look for that National Geographic program. I love stuff like that. I got pretty far with physics in college before I switched to a history major and laid the foundation for a life of producing nothing except a bunch of arguments  I actually studied physics in the same buildings where Einstein spent his later days. Just proves there is no such thing as human osmosis))  One of my favorite books that completely twisted my brain into a pretzel (where it still remains as you well know) was Hawking's A Brief History of Time. Have you read it? 

Loved your description of Connor and the hummingbird


----------



## connieflyer

I have that book bought it when it first came out and read it many times. I'm doing fine up until string theory I've read that chapter a dozen times and it's still just barely sinking in but a fascinating read no matter what. His second book was good as well but not nearly as well written done mostly by his students. Yeah Connor was very photogenic with that hummingbird wish I would have been able to get a picture of that


----------



## connieflyer

Tried to explain to sue about the Multiverse and she just gave me that look like said if you want to eat dinner tonight change the subject once you start thinking along those lines your mind just kind of opens right up and gets larger than what you can imagine. Always have loved the Sciences think it's fascinating


----------



## tjw321

pctazhp said:


> Thanks CF. I'll look for that National Geographic program. I love stuff like that. I got pretty far with physics in college before I switched to a history major and laid the foundation for a life of producing nothing except a bunch of arguments  I actually studied physics in the same buildings where Einstein spent his later days. Just proves there is no such thing as human osmosis))  One of my favorite books that completely twisted my brain into a pretzel (where it still remains as you well know) was Hawking's A Brief History of Time. Have you read it?
> 
> Loved your description of Connor and the hummingbird


I studied physics in the same building as Stephen Hawking - no osmosis here, either.


----------



## pctazhp

This is just Sunday morning rambling/babble. I always enjoy posts from people who are effective at conveying the specific differences they experience in comparing different amps, DACs, headphones, tubes, etc. I'm not very good at that.

But one thing I have often found interesting is that when I attend a live performance and try to apply audiophile concepts or descriptions to what I'm hearing I fail completely. For example, when I go to the Phoenix Symphony and think about things like layering, soundstage, instrument individualization, tonal balance, clarity, etc my mind draws a complete blank. Maybe that is why I make my audio purchases primarily based on the enhancement in emotional connection to music a particular product can provide for me.


----------



## tjw321

If my amps sounded like most of the live concerts I've been to I would be very disappointed with the amp. Live venue acoustics never seem to match those that can be achieved in a good recording. The only live concert I've been to with acoustics could match/exceed the best recordings I have was in the living room of a CSO violinist with an audience of three.


----------



## pctazhp

tjw321 said:


> If my amps sounded like most of the live concerts I've been to I would be very disappointed with the amp. Live venue acoustics never seem to match those that can be achieved in a good recording. The only live concert I've been to with acoustics could match/exceed the best recordings I have was in the living room of a CSO violinist with an audience of three.



Good point.


----------



## connieflyer

A little music to pass the day...for those that have not heard Chip Davis...


----------



## JazzVinyl

tjw321 said:


> If my amps sounded like most of the live concerts I've been to I would be very disappointed with the amp. Live venue acoustics never seem to match those that can be achieved in a good recording. The only live concert I've been to with acoustics could match/exceed the best recordings I have was in the living room of a CSO violinist with an audience of three.



+1

Completely agree!


----------



## myphone

Has anyone used 12sn7 family tubes? I have significant collection of 12SX7 and various 12SN7s, including Tung Sol RP. Bought special Octal socket savers with heater leads out on EBay.Should be able to receive them in 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Althalus

Somewhere at the end of July 
A lonely truck running through the night 
The rain falls 
It's cold 
In the back of the truck 
Packed together with many others 
Sitting in the dark 
Silent and afraid 
Waiting 
Hope 
A new life 
A new beginning 
My amp is on it's way.

Althalus


----------



## Tunkejazz

myphone said:


> Has anyone used 12sn7 family tubes? I have significant collection of 12SX7 and various 12SN7s, including Tung Sol RP. Bought special Octal socket savers with heater leads out on EBay.Should be able to receive them in 3-4 weeks.


If I remember correctly, Ember does not support such tubes.

Only Solstice seems to support those according to the webpage, but check with Jeremy just in case.


----------



## mordy (Jul 26, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> If I remember correctly, Ember does not support such tubes.
> 
> Only Solstice seems to support those according to the webpage, but check with Jeremy just in case.


Many amps that use 6SN7 tubes or equivalent, can use 12SN7 tubes if an external voltage source is used. Usually it means a power supply and, if the power supply does not supply the 12V, a voltage regulator as well.
You need an octal adapter with heater leads to supply the voltage independently of the amp.
In the past I have used various set-ups with 7V, 8V, 11V and 12V tubes. It works, but aesthetically it is not pleasing, and I don't use these type of tubes any more, especially since there are so many choices of 6V tubes available.
The only reason I can think of now is that some 12V versions are much less expensive than 6V versions of the same tube (TS round plate as an example).


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Many amps that use 6SN7 tubes or equivalent, can use 12SN7 tubes if an external voltage source is used. Usually it means a power supply and, if the power supply does not supply the 12V, a voltage regulator as well.
> You need an octal adapter with heater leads to supply the voltage independently of the amp.
> In the past I have used various set-ups with 7V, 8V, 11V and 12V tubes. It works, but aesthetically it is not pleasing, and I don't use these type of tubes any more, especially since there are so many choices of 6V tubes available.
> The only reason I can think of now is that some 12V versions are much less expensive than 6V versions of the same tube (TS round plate as an example).



Agree. I have 12 sn7 Tung Sol round plate and 3 different types of 12SX7, without equivalent 6sn7 counterparts. 

Big part of fun of playing tube amp is tube tolling to experience various music and sound expression.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Upppss....I thought I was posting in the Ember thread


----------



## connieflyer

Shame, shame, shame on you!!! I have done that enough times!


----------



## pctazhp

Honey. The store only has 10 of the dresses you ordered ready. Is it ok if I just get these today and come back tomorrow for the other 10, instead of waiting??

OPPPS. I thought I was texting my wife.


----------



## connieflyer

I hope you bought the long one!


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 27, 2017)

Here is a voice you may not have heard, she is an opera singer, a very fine mezzo-soprano,but here she sings the blues


----------



## Tunkejazz




----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer Are you around these days? Or did you decide to stay in Spain for a while after you ran with the bulls???


----------



## connieflyer

Tried running with the bulls, but with one bad knee and the other failing, even the old bulls, where passing me by.


----------



## Tunkejazz

OMG @angpsi, I just received my pair of Sylvania 6SN7W...plugged them along with the GEC 6080 and I have a huge smily at the moment. This setup just sounds absolutely great!


----------



## pctazhp

Tunkejazz said:


> OMG @angpsi, I just received my pair of Sylvania 6SN7W...plugged them along with the GEC 6080 and I have a huge smily at the moment. This setup just sounds absolutely great!



You just discovered the Motherload. Welcome to our Secret Society. We have to keep it secret to prevent the price of those gems from going even higher


----------



## connieflyer

I am glad you are enjoying your tubes. That is a really nice sounding combo.  For me, I prefer the RCA 6sn7GT 1947 greys more.  They are a little warmer, the Sylvania seem very articulate, but just a little cool.  But then everyone is different, and I enjoy all the tubes I have, too many probably, but you can never have too many, according to PCT!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> but you can never have too many, according to PCT!



I said you could never have too many nurses. NURSES. Not tubes !!!


----------



## connieflyer

I was afraid you'd say that, too bad you didn't share back then. But we didn't have time for that!


----------



## pctazhp

It would have been pretty difficult to share the nurses when all of them kept running away from me.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 30, 2017)

Nice post, H1  !!

Good to see pics of the real people, dedicated to the art of tube amplifier design.  That includes you, of course.  The idea and the inspiration behind the product.    And this product has a history, something that you do not see everyday, you know:   an enthusiast group of headfiers,  modding to the max their LD amps,  with some crazy setups, and rolling tubes like madmen,  were seriously considered by a manufacturer, to the point of designing an amplifier (the Elise)   that was clearly inspired in the thread.   And that was because of the superior sound achieved by the top mods,  up to the very limits of what was possible with the LDIII-IV series.  In my view, the Elise was designed, in the first place, to overcome that limitations.   It is also unseen in this world of mega electronic corporations that your amp can be handmade by  a small family firm in Europe with top quality components, for a reasonable price.

Thats why I am waiting patiently for my Euforia...

Cheers,


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 30, 2017)

Hi H1,  The discussion about "sinergy" between DACs and tube amps, specifically the Euforia in this case, promises to be a very interesting one.  I admit not having the chance yet to hear a Chord Hugo, but know is regarded among the best in its price range.  The FPGA architecture, strictly speaking, means that the decoding algorithm of the DAC is upgradeable via software, which is indeed a very desirable feature.  Some of the very best DACs do have this function, pioneered by the great Theta DACs.  The Schiit Iggy (as I understand) is a modern descendant of the Theta, but much more relevant than this feature in terms of SQ is the decoding format,  (and of course the implementation of the analog output) simplified around the current discussion about delta/sigma (the vast majority)  vs. multibit DACs.

And I say simplified, because true multibit DACs were abandoned many years ago by the industry,  they were very expensive to manufacture,  needing a precise laser trim on hundreds of "ladders", and only recently, audio manufacturers identified a renewed demand for multibit DACs, so they hurriedly implemented specific industrial multibit ICs for audio purposes. Some with great success, like the Iggy.  But, how they compare against true  multibit DACs,  expensive, hand trimmed, made exclusively for audio many years ago, and never made anymore ?  Interesting question,  and in many ways similar to NOS versus current production tubes.  In fact, there is a cult following around pieces like the UltraAnalog 20400A, a multibit module made up to 1990 or so, which is, truly, the GEC of all DACs !!  This one was used in the absolute top high end DACs of the time, among them the magnificent Spectral, and their current production at nearly 20k a piece, still uses it, as I understand.    Kind of a NOS DAC, if you want.  More modestly, my Parasound DAC 2000, 1990 vintage,  also have  this one,   have compared it with quite a few much more modern DACs,  and while you can say that this or that one are maybe better in some aspects, none of them even comes close  against its utterly analog, un-digital,  expansive sound, or its ultradeep,  room shaking bass.  Now I understand the cult.  And this DAC just sings with tubes,  as you can imagine.  Anyway,  this suggests that perhaps all the new technology does not necessarily offer better audio, as the industry want us to believe.  And come on, we collect old tubes, so we now that.


----------



## Althalus

Johnnysound said:


> Thats why I am waiting patiently for my Euforia...



Welcome to the club. 
Mine arrived friday. 

Althalus


----------



## pctazhp

@Johnnysound Thanks a lot for your discussion of DAC history. I enjoy reading technical things when even I have a remote chance of understanding, and a trip down nostalgia lane is always fun for an old geezer like me (and @connieflyer if I dare speak for him). When I got out of speaker based high end audio I sold my Theta V. It's the only thing I really regret selling. I think your Parasound DAC is going to strike up a searing romance with Euforia when she arrives


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## pctazhp

Althalus said:


> Mine arrived friday.



VERY COOL ))))


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## Tunkejazz

Althalus said:


> Welcome to the club.
> Mine arrived friday.
> 
> Althalus



Congratulations!! (It's like having a baby)


----------



## pctazhp

This morning I'm listening to Euforia with Sylvania 6SN7W/GEC6AS7G. Wonderful. May be my best combo, but that changes with my mood. I keep my eyes open for a pair of TS6SN7 Round Plate drivers, but the ones I usually see are very expensive or are not NOS, and even those are expensive. In addition, I am saving up for a Gumby so I can keep up with @connieflyer. CF. I forgot if you have the TS round plate drivers. I hope not, because that would just up the expense of keeping up with you!!!!


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> This morning I'm listening to Euforia with Sylvania 6SN7W/GEC6AS7G. Wonderful. May be my best combo, but that changes with my mood. I keep my eyes open for a pair of TS6SN7 Round Plate drivers, but the ones I usually see are very expensive or are not NOS, and even those are expensive. In addition, I am saving up for a Gumby so I can keep up with @connieflyer. CF. I forgot if you have the TS round plate drivers. I hope not, because that would just up the expense of keeping up with you!!!!


Hi pct,

Don't now if it is allowed (can't keep track of the Feliks threads and where and what to post), but you could look into a 12V TS Round Plate 12SN7 tube for the same sound at a much cheaper price. Of course, it requires an adapter and a 12V power supply, but it is doable.


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Don't now if it is allowed (can't keep track of the Feliks threads and where and what to post), but you could look into a 12V TS Round Plate 12SN7 tube for the same sound at a much cheaper price. Of course, it requires an adapter and a 12V power supply, but it is doable.



I am waiting for my adapter to try out TS RP 12SN7. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-S...357847?hash=item2ca4acef17:g:DqoAAOSw4UtWTTyd

How does Sylvania  6sn7W compare to 1952 Sylvania 6sn7GT (bad boy)?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> Don't now if it is allowed (can't keep track of the Feliks threads and where and what to post), but you could look into a 12V TS Round Plate 12SN7 tube for the same sound at a much cheaper price. Of course, it requires an adapter and a 12V power supply, but it is doable.



Thanks Mordy. I think choice of FA thread is like choice of tube combos. Personal preference, or in my case it's like tossing a dart blindfolded. 

And thanks for the advice on the 12SN7. I tried external power last year. Can't remember, but think it was with 6BL7s. I'm just not into that any more. Cosmetics, figuring out how to hook it up, etc. But mainly I am very happy with my Sylvania Gold Brand 6SN7WGT and Sylvania 6SN7-WGT drivers. The TS round plate just gives me an excuse to look for something on Ebay when I'm bored


----------



## pctazhp

myphone said:


> How does Sylvania 6sn7W compare to 1952 Sylvania 6sn7GT (bad boy)?



I haven't used the bad boy tubes. I can say that my Sylvania 6SN7W and 6SN7W pairs are pretty close, and I'm not always sure which one I prefer. My TS6SN7-GTB are supposed to be pretty good for the price. I haven't used them for a while, but will try them when I have time.


----------



## myphone

I will post what I find with12SN7s. Over the years, I have accumulated so many "12volt desirable 6sn7 tubes". 

Have a microZotl switching power supper laying around. Standard connectir. Should be easy when new sockets come in


----------



## myphone

Don't have Sylvania 6SN7W. Bad boy 6sn7 is good, but 6SN7/6AS7/6080 and specific headphone combination makes much more difference.


----------



## angpsi

Tunkejazz said:


> OMG @angpsi, I just received my pair of Sylvania 6SN7W...plugged them along with the GEC 6080 and I have a huge smily at the moment. This setup just sounds absolutely great!


Hahaha! Who would have thought I'd be giving advice on vintage tubes a year ago!... Honor goes to the FA first brigade who originally advised me on these (including @UntilThen), I was just happy—stunned actually—to reap the benefits!


----------



## angpsi

Althalus said:


> Welcome to the club.
> Mine arrived friday.
> 
> Althalus


More stuff is coming your way presently!


----------



## Althalus

angpsi said:


> More stuff is coming your way presently!



Thank you


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## pctazhp

This morning listening to one of my favorite singers, Reina del Cid, with TS6SN7s doing driver duty. Both singer and tubes highly recommended


----------



## angpsi

Kinda reminded me of this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1980929/


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## angpsi

Also this one


----------



## connieflyer

Anyone have any experience with this Dap? I want to use it's coax out for a source instead of my pc.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HP9O0ZO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3N9BPBG2X46RB&colid=24ZD1S4SRVVZ8  Thanks.


----------



## angpsi

connieflyer said:


> Anyone have any experience with this Dap? I want to use it's coax out for a source instead of my pc.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HP9O0ZO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3N9BPBG2X46RB&colid=24ZD1S4SRVVZ8  Thanks.


Sorry, I don't; but why wouldn't you opt for the Eitr instead? Unless you're also after a standalone player.

On the same note, those of you based in the EU take notice that Sonority Audio is selling the Schiit Eitr on back order for €185 instead of €219. Shipments start on Aug 15-30. http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/eitr-usb-to-spdif-converter.html. That's how I got mine.


----------



## Tunkejazz

For years I have used a Mtech Hiface2 that converts USB to coax. It has galvanic isolation and it works great. I think I got it (4 years ago?) for 150 eur if I remember correctly.


----------



## connieflyer

I did buy the e i t r it would not work for me it kept coming up with an error that it could not find the Cmedia device I'm using Windows 64 win 7. I sent it back for refund. I am not the only one that has had this problem you can Google it I would assume. The device I'm looking for is a Dap it's a music player portable and it has coax Optical output as well as headphone output. I would just like to have a source that did not have to be turned on or viewed instead of using the PC I thought I might like to use this device astell & Kern very good manufacturer but I didn't want to spend too much on a device like that either


----------



## tjw321

connieflyer said:


> I did buy the e i t r it would not work for me it kept coming up with an error that it could not find the Cmedia device I'm using Windows 64 win 7. I sent it back for refund. I am not the only one that has had this problem you can Google it I would assume. The device I'm looking for is a Dap it's a music player portable and it has coax Optical output as well as headphone output. I would just like to have a source that did not have to be turned on or viewed instead of using the PC I thought I might like to use this device astell & Kern very good manufacturer but I didn't want to spend too much on a device like that either


Coax and optical aren't the same thing. Coax uses a wire instead of an optical fibre but the protocol they use is the same. I use an X5iii or an X3i outputting over coax into my Bimby sometimes. I believe some people have issues with high-bitrate files with the X5 but I've not had any problems with redbook - but I'll try it again and make sure if you are interested in that route.
The X5 is good because it can access my DLNA server and it has two microSD slots which means it almost never has to access my DLNA server.... I actually use it for internet radio more than anything else (when connected to my Bimby/Elise - and more as a standalone DAP when not).
If you want optical rather than coax, I think one or more of the Opus players can do optical. I don't have any experience of them, but they seem to be highly regarded.


----------



## connieflyer

I am aware of the coax and Optical are different but both of them are digital signals and can be outputted from the same Jack. The Asus Essence audio card that I'm using has a digital output Jack you can plug in either a digital cable coax into the port or with a small adapter plug you can plug in an optical cable out of the same Jack it's a digital signal that goes down whether it's a wire or glass. But it wasn't just that particular signal that I'm looking for that was a big plus I'm looking for the music server player in particular. I'll look into the X5 and see how that one measures up also have not used a music player except for a Cowan J-3 that still works but has limited functionality compared to what I'm looking for. Thank you


----------



## tjw321

connieflyer said:


> I am aware of the coax and Optical are different but both of them are digital signals and can be outputted from the same Jack. The Asus Essence audio card that I'm using has a digital output Jack you can plug in either a digital cable coax into the port or with a small adapter plug you can plug in an optical cable out of the same Jack it's a digital signal that goes down whether it's a wire or glass. But it wasn't just that particular signal that I'm looking for that was a big plus I'm looking for the music server player in particular. I'll look into the X5 and see how that one measures up also have not used a music player except for a Cowan J-3 that still works but has limited functionality compared to what I'm looking for. Thank you


I thought you did know - I was more protecting myself from ridicule for recommending the X5 if you specifically wanted optical


----------



## connieflyer

No need to protect yourself against ridicule from others. This is a forum of ideas and people have different ideas and they're all worth exploring. I appreciate the fact that you would even answer the thread and I will check into the X5. Myself I am not afraid of ridicule usually that comes from small-minded people and I'm bigger than that. Thank you very much


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 2, 2017)

Will try again!!!¬


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1,  The discussion about "sinergy" between DACs and tube amps, specifically the Euforia in this case, promises to be a very interesting one.  I admit not having the chance yet to hear a Chord Hugo, but know is regarded among the best in its price range.  The FPGA architecture, strictly speaking, means that the decoding algorithm of the DAC is upgradeable via software, which is indeed a very desirable feature.  Some of the very best DACs do have this function, pioneered by the great Theta DACs.  The Schiit Iggy (as I understand) is a modern descendant of the Theta, but much more relevant than this feature in terms of SQ is the decoding format,  (and of course the implementation of the analog output) simplified around the current discussion about delta/sigma (the vast majority)  vs. multibit DACs.
> 
> And I say simplified, because true multibit DACs were abandoned many years ago by the industry,  they were very expensive to manufacture,  needing a precise laser trim on hundreds of "ladders", and only recently, audio manufacturers identified a renewed demand for multibit DACs, so they hurriedly implemented specific industrial multibit ICs for audio purposes. Some with great success, like the Iggy.  But, how they compare against true  multibit DACs,  expensive, hand trimmed, made exclusively for audio many years ago, and never made anymore ?  Interesting question,  and in many ways similar to NOS versus current production tubes.  In fact, there is a cult following around pieces like the UltraAnalog 20400A, a multibit module made up to 1990 or so, which is, truly, the GEC of all DACs !!  This one was used in the absolute top high end DACs of the time, among them the magnificent Spectral, and their current production at nearly 20k a piece, still uses it, as I understand.    Kind of a NOS DAC, if you want.  More modestly, my Parasound DAC 2000, 1990 vintage,  also have  this one,   have compared it with quite a few much more modern DACs,  and while you can say that this or that one are maybe better in some aspects, none of them even comes close  against its utterly analog, un-digital,  expansive sound, or its ultradeep,  room shaking bass.  Now I understand the cult.  And this DAC just sings with tubes,  as you can imagine.  Anyway,  this suggests that perhaps all the new technology does not necessarily offer better audio, as the industry want us to believe.  And come on, we collect old tubes, so we now that.



Hi J...sorry for the late reply, but at the moment I can't seem to get anywhere near my tail lol!!

Great to see you took the plunge with Euforia...WELL DONE!...as @pctazhp said, you are in for a real treat...especially with your DAC feeding her lol!

Thanks for the encouraging words on your first post...and yes, it is indeed wonderful to see such a small, dedicated family business accomplishing what they have in what must be a rather difficult market! But things might well not have been the same if it weren't for all the wonderful support of the great bunch of fellow enthusiasts here at head-fi...WELL DONE to you too, guys! 

And re. the FPGA technology, it certainly would appear the 'coding' and analog implementation are key...Chord's circuit designer Rob Watts breathed quite a sigh at CanJam London when he spoke of the years he's been working on this architecture lol!!

And now that I've given my own Hugo2 the lengthy trialling such gear needs before you can get any really meaninful idea of its performance, it would certainly appear his tribulations have paid dividends...BIG time! I wasn't prepared for such improvements over the already stellar performance from my tube DAC...(which would house many, many, MANY H2s lol!!). But I was even more dumbfounded when I switched from using its HP circuit out as line (from the RCA sockets, though), to 'proper' max line level out. The extra smoothness of delivery, along with even more detail across the entire FR - all positioned with pinpoint accuracy and impeccable balance -  plus wonderfully expansive soundstage, is truly remarkable. And I know this sounds rather like wishful thinking, but the overall result via my own particular setup - Naim UnitiCore source; mesh plate EL11s driving TFK EL12 Spezials; AirlinksTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains with Advanced Filtering unit; T1s - has _some_ similarities to what I heard from the Chord Blu MKII's M-Scaler technology feeding the amazing 'Dave'...at a whopping £16,000+...... which can't be bad, as far as I'm concerned!   And to do all this - plus double as very high quality HP amp as well - in such a 'portable' form factor simply defies belief. This sort of performance from something this size (and appearance!) totally precludes me personally from even thinking about anything the size of Yggdrasil, I'm afraid. I truly believe that Rob Watts's work with FPGA is where others will probably have to follow....and at prices that fortunately are much more accessible than 'NOS' work in this field lol!!! ...

And so just a couple of pics of where I'm at...and where I shall be happy to stay for a VERY long while.....I HOPE!!!!!...


  

I wish you all the very best with your own Euforia experience...as with you too @Althalus ...CONGRATS!!...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> No need to protect yourself against ridicule from others. This is a forum of ideas and people have different ideas and they're all worth exploring. I appreciate the fact that you would even answer the thread and I will check into the X5. Myself I am not afraid of ridicule usually that comes from small-minded people *and I'm bigger than that*. Thank you very much



Y'know, cf, I always thought it was pct who was the TALL guy...and Connor the BIG one lol!!... ...(perhaps you yourself are the Rhino-hide one?!!  ...)...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## myphone

Have 12 volt driver heater set up. 

Pairing GEC 6080, and HD 800,

12SN7 TS RP sound refined, delicate, and sweet. Great resolution and extended highs.

12SN7 Sylvania (3 hole bad boys, sound the same as 6 volt i have in hand) sound sweeter and refined. Great resolution and strong bass.

Presentation is quite different but equally satisfying.


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## pctazhp

Big man????


----------



## pctazhp

myphone said:


> 12SN7 Sylvania (3 hole bad boys, sound the same as 6 volt i have in hand) sound sweeter and refined. Great resolution and strong bass.



I'm confused. Does the Sylvania 12V version sound better or the 6V Sylvania version better, or both the same?


----------



## myphone

pctazhp said:


> I'm confused. Does the Sylvania 12V version sound better or the 6V Sylvania version better, or both the same?



Sorry for the confusion. That was compared to TS. 

To my ears, 12V and 6V Sylvania 12SN7GTs sound the same, in Euforia as well as in microZOTL.

Sylvania has more bass and is sweeter than TungSol  RP. TS RP has lighter and more open presentation than bad boys

Interestingly, both Sylvania and TS have great resolution and sound refined.


----------



## Althalus

hypnos1 said:


>



Interesting setup. 
The little cottages look nice too, do they somehow improve the sound (Britisch voodoo)?


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 4, 2017)

I am not sure that is a very good question to ask h because you sure that is a very good question to ask H because you may have stumbled onto the real reason his system sounds so good that the sound is actually reverberating between the cottages and we're not supposed to know that it's the cottages not the equipment oh I hope you haven't uncovered a can of worms!


----------



## Althalus

Of course not, H is now reading this with a big smile 

Althalus


----------



## tjw321

connieflyer said:


> No need to protect yourself against ridicule from others. This is a forum of ideas and people have different ideas and they're all worth exploring. I appreciate the fact that you would even answer the thread and I will check into the X5. Myself I am not afraid of ridicule usually that comes from small-minded people and I'm bigger than that. Thank you very much


Thanks, CF.
I did some testing last night with my X5iii into my Mojo (so that I could check the lights to see if I was getting the correct sample rate). Almost everything played without issue and it all sounded as good as anything I've heard from the Mojo (but the only other sources I've tried are an X3 and a Raspberry Pi, albeit via a separately clocked digital card). The first time I tried a 48kHz track it didn't work (I got silence), but all other sampling rates/depths did. I went back to the 48kHz track and it then played fine. I don't have a huge amount of HiRes music since I've found the Bimby and Mojo don't seem to need it but I do have a track or two at most popular rates/depths.
I have some DSD, but I wasn't able to get it onto the X5 for my tests (lack of time). I'm going to be away from a few days, but I can give the DSD a go when I get back. I'm 90% certain that the highest rates won't work, but I think the standard rate will.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 4, 2017)

Althalus said:


> Interesting setup.
> The little cottages look nice too, do they somehow improve the sound (Britisch voodoo)?



Hi A...'voodoo' and @connieflyer 's 'can of worms' are spot on - in that my life (and Euforia's!) might just be in jeopardy if concessions aren't made to 'She who must be obeyed' lol!!!   ...hence also my pride and joy having to sit atop her multi-CD player rather than the Vincent!! ...The things we do LOL!....


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 4, 2017)

tjw321 said:


> Thanks, CF.
> I did some testing last night with my X5iii into my Mojo (so that I could check the lights to see if I was getting the correct sample rate). Almost everything played without issue and it all sounded as good as anything I've heard from the Mojo (but the only other sources I've tried are an X3 and a Raspberry Pi, albeit via a separately clocked digital card). The first time I tried a 48kHz track it didn't work (I got silence), but all other sampling rates/depths did. I went back to the 48kHz track and it then played fine. I don't have a huge amount of HiRes music since I've found the Bimby and Mojo don't seem to need it but I do have a track or two at most popular rates/depths.
> I have some DSD, but I wasn't able to get it onto the X5 for my tests (lack of time). I'm going to be away from a few days, but I can give the DSD a go when I get back. I'm 90% certain that the highest rates won't work, but I think the standard rate will.



Hi tjw...didn't see you at CanJam London....CHICKEN!!....you *know* you want the Hugo2 lol! ...it just LOVES hi-res!  ...CHEERS...CJ


----------



## mordy

Hi U1,

If I understand correctly, the Hugo 2 is both a DAC and a headphone amp. How does it sound on it's own in your system without the Euforia?
And how does it sound by itself without any of your components plugged in?


----------



## pctazhp (Aug 4, 2017)

I think there is common agreement that source is very important. However, there seems a fair amount of disagreement as to whether there is more than 1 or 2 paths to a great DAC. I see posts on HeadFi claiming a particular DAC is the best, even though the poster has not heard many competing DACs, particularly in a home audition setting, including less expensive models from the same manufacturer of the DAC being touted.

Also, I don't understand the thinking behind a thread supposedly devoted to FA amps which talks very little about FA amps, but instead seems like a thread mainly devoted to praising a competing amp. But anyone can start a thread and call it whatever they want, as long as they don't violate HeadFi rules, and each of us can choose the threads we like to read on a regular basis.

Edit:  I should clarify this post is in no way related to H1 who has never claimed Hugo2 is the "best".


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi U1,
> 
> If I understand correctly, the Hugo 2 is both a DAC and a headphone amp. How does it sound on it's own in your system without the Euforia?
> And how does it sound by itself without any of your components plugged in?



Hi mordy...yep, a hi-end DAC AND hi-performance 'amp' (in that an inferior op-amp stage isn't needed - the FPGA chips are now able to output sufficient power themselves to drive headphones of ALL impedances...amazing lol!).

In short, on its own it sounds scarily close to my Euforia setup...crazy, really!!   Euforia (with my EL tube complement, at least!) smoothes things out a bit more and gives slightly better positioning and separation, which (for me) brings out even more detail and enhances further the wonderfully expansive soundstage...all of which could have been tailor-made for my T1s lol!! I never thought the T1s could reproduce such bass (either with or without Euforia) - in both extension and detail - and any minor qualms re. their treble are totally blown away...especially via (my) Euforia. The 'sparkle' and airiness I love about these Beyers is (somehow!) combined with a sweetness that can deal magically with all but the most OTT treble-addicted sound engineer! H2 by itself isn't _quite_ so sweet in comparison, but still better than what is usually encountered via SS gear. 

There's PRaT to die for in both iterations, and everything is presented with effortless control and coherence. As per the circuit designer Rob Watts's words, one of the real stars is its handling of transients - the precision this brings to instrumental notes and voices is uncanny, and has finally convinced me of the extreme importance this aspect of sound reproduction holds. It does indeed bring an extra magical element to the whole experience...and is very addictive lol!  ...

Obviously, the Naim UnitiCore as source helps a good deal here...as does the AirlinksTransformers ASF3000, I'm sure. I haven't done much testing of H2 by itself with 'lesser' accompanying gear, but my very first checking of its functioning was using optical out from my laptop, and it performed far better than I ever thought possible. I must try it once again soon, but to be honest, I just don't really want to stray from the wonderful sound my Euforia setup is giving me lol!!....CHEERS!...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi A...'voodoo' and @connieflyer 's 'can of worms' are spot on - in that my life (and Euforia's!) might just be in jeopardy if concessions aren't made to 'She who must be obeyed' lol!!!   ...hence also my pride and joy having to sit atop her multi-CD player rather than the Vincent!! ...The things we do LOL!....


Where's that 8200CD of yours, CJ? You can send it to me if you're not using it!


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Where's that 8200CD of yours, CJ? You can send it to me if you're not using it!



Good question, O...waiting for me to open it up and attempt to rescue my 'Gladiator' film music CD!!....which it finally decided to refuse totally to spit out - ie. "Tray blocked", after a good few such episodes! Not too impressed, from something that originally cost near a grand lol!! Mind you, its saving grace is the USB in for external media playback (plus coax and optical in), and subsequent high quality performance.

Assuming I don't take a sledge hammer to it in frustration...and my brother doesn't want it(!)...you're more than welcome to it...but sans working CD function, most probably lol!!  ...


----------



## mordy

I find it very interesting that it appears that solid state audio equipment has reached a level where it can compete with tube sound, and I enjoy very much reading about the various approaches of forum members.
To me it looks like both h1 and UT have embarked on this path with excellent results. My problem is that this level of performance does not come cheap, and the price of a Hugo 2 or an Yggy-Ryggy combination seems to be beyond my budget at this time.
The H2 is both a DAC and headphone amp; the Y/R both a DAC and headphone-power amp.
I could see a company making a one box DAC power amp/headphone amp that would hopefully bring down the cost. Don't know if Chord has any power amp ambitions.
As it is I am very happy with my Euforia (and Elise as well, which sounds close to the Euforia with the tubes I am using).
Which tubes? My GEC savers lol: Foton 6H8C and RCA 6AS7G.
It is amazing that such inexpensive tubes have such a synergy and world class sound. Obviously there is no bragging factor involved such as with the TSRBP and GEC 6AS7, but the truth has to be told........


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Assuming I don't take a sledge hammer to it in frustration...and my brother doesn't want it(!)...you're more than welcome to it...but sans working CD function, most probably lol!!  ...


I think your brother should have it after some surgery to it. 

But I do need a working CD transport. I don't use one but I need one. This must sound incredibly stupid…


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> I find it very interesting that it appears that solid state audio equipment has reached a level where it can compete with tube sound, and I enjoy very much reading about the various approaches of forum members.
> To me it looks like both h1 and UT have embarked on this path with excellent results. My problem is that this level of performance does not come cheap, and the price of a Hugo 2 or an Yggy-Ryggy combination seems to be beyond my budget at this time.
> The H2 is both a DAC and headphone amp; the Y/R both a DAC and headphone-power amp.
> I could see a company making a one box DAC power amp/headphone amp that would hopefully bring down the cost. Don't know if Chord has any power amp ambitions.
> ...



I'm planning to move to Ukraine in a few months. With shipping and voltage issues, the Hugo2 as a complete solution is tempting. I'll try to listen to one before the move, but I suspect I'll be sticking with Euforia and just pack it for shipping very carefully. The Yggy/Rag combination is just to expensive, heavy and space consuming for me, but I'm sure it sounds wonderful. I love my current setup and really have no good reason (other than considerations for my move) to want to upgrade. But I respect the personal decisions each person makes. If someone were considering either Elise or Euforia I would not hesitate to tell them I'm confident they won't be disappointed with either one, and that both amps represent incredible value as long as one takes into consideration the potential expense of tube rolling and the potential expense if something goes wrong and the FA amp has to be returned to Poland for repair. When all is said and done, with what I've now got invested in top rated tubes and the "romance" factor of an OTL amp I doubt I'll be able to give up Euforia when I move.


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> But I do need a working CD transport. I don't use one but I need one. This must sound incredibly stupid…



Makes perfect sense to me


----------



## pctazhp

This morning I’m listening on Tidal to "A Boy from Tupelo: The Complete 1953-1955 Recordings". Most of these, if not all, must have been recorded at the Sun Records studio, and most are pretty raw. But in 1955 I was 10-years old, and this is MY MUSIC!!! And through Euforia – SO SWEET !!!!


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Good question, O...waiting for me to open it up and attempt to rescue my 'Gladiator' film music CD!!....which it finally decided to refuse totally to spit out - ie. "Tray blocked", after a good few such episodes! Not too impressed, from something that originally cost near a grand lol!! Mind you, its saving grace is the USB in for external media playback (plus coax and optical in), and subsequent high quality performance.
> 
> Assuming I don't take a sledge hammer to it in frustration...and my brother doesn't want it(!)...you're more than welcome to it...but sans working CD function, most probably lol!!  ...


Hi h1,

As someone that has successfully extricated trapped CDs from a car CD player, I venture to say that with a small screwdriver, a flashlight and a little patience, you should be able to do it. However, if you cannot see the CD, it should not be too difficult to open up the CD player and at least rescue the CD.
Who knows, after this operation it may start to function again....


----------



## mordy

Hi pct,
Memories...The year was 1956. Interesting version aboard a US warship:


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I find it very interesting that it appears that solid state audio equipment has reached a level where it can compete with tube sound, and I enjoy very much reading about the various approaches of forum members.
> To me it looks like both h1 and UT have embarked on this path with excellent results. My problem is that this level of performance does not come cheap, and the price of a Hugo 2 or an Yggy-Ryggy combination seems to be beyond my budget at this time.
> The H2 is both a DAC and headphone amp; the Y/R both a DAC and headphone-power amp.
> I could see a company making a one box DAC power amp/headphone amp that would hopefully bring down the cost. Don't know if Chord has any power amp ambitions.
> ...



Yo mordy...new technology certainly is getting close to being able to reproduce almost everything good tube amps can deliver...but not quite yet (at anything like an affordable price, at least!). 

Hugo2, for example, has myriad combinations of 'crossfeed' and filters that can help compensate for different recording "qualities", but still can't match our particular amps for tailoring to individual preferences...assuming one is prepared to trial (and pay for, as @pctazhp mentioned!) different  tubes, some of which are now at ridiculous prices lol!  And tubes certainly do also have more "soul" and that "je ne sais quoi" that only they can impart...

I too will be keeping Euforia as part of the setup, regardless of H2's own HP out performance...(mind you, for a frequent traveller who wants semi-portable hi-Q sound it's a no-brainer - funds permitting, of course!!).

That our F-A amps can make 'lower pecking order' tubes sound good is a truly remarkable feat, but I'm afraid I personally didn't find any of them enticing me away from either the more 'top flight' ones, or most of the 'alternatives' we have tried over the years lol..... And while on this subject, given the stellar performance I myself have managed to tease from the EL tube families (given, also, a certain degree of luck, no doubt!), I would like to update the position regarding these particular 'non-approved' tubes....

As I reported a while back, my extensive temperature testing of the entire Euforia internals proved once and for all that the EL11/12 combo had the amp running at about 10 degrees C *cooler* throughout, and in one small circuit section beneath the trafo TWENTY degrees cooler!!  And so, even Lukasz had to concede that these tubes could in no way be blamed for any overheating issues. In addition, he stated that so long as there weren't any other obvious "issues" with them, they "_could_ be safe to use". 
Given I have now been using them pretty well exclusively for many hundreds of hours _without_ the slightest hint of problems for the amp, I think it's fairly safe to assume that they are indeed "safe to use"!!!...(My only experience of temporary hum came from my HP cable running too close to the massive transformer in my ASF3000 Balanced AC Mains/Filter unit...nothing to do with the amp per se!). It's just a shame F-A still can't officially endorse them, of course...But I personally have found my own combo to surpass in every respect even my beloved GEC CV2523s driven by some of the best 'approved' tubes. I do recognise, however, that perhaps most folks won't be able to replicate _exactly_ my own setup...but I'm sure they could at least come _close_ lol. 


Oskari said:


> I think your brother should have it after some surgery to it.
> 
> But I do need a working CD transport. I don't use one but I need one. This must sound incredibly stupid…



Er...you have indeed got me there, mon ami!! ...(mind you, I myself am still holding on to *many* things I don't really *need* lol!  ...).


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> As someone that has successfully extricated trapped CDs from a car CD player, I venture to say that with a small screwdriver, a flashlight and a little patience, you should be able to do it. However, if you cannot see the CD, it should not be too difficult to open up the CD player and at least rescue the CD.
> Who knows, after this operation it may start to function again....



You give me...and Oskari(?!) renewed hope...CHEERS, m...


----------



## pctazhp (Aug 4, 2017)

OK @hypnos1 You motivated me to pull out my EL11/EL12 combo and give it a shot in Euforia. I only tried that combo briefly right after I got Euforia and it was still burning in. I must admit it is sounding pretty amazing. Want to do some long-term listening before I decide a comparison to my preferred approved combos. I do like the fact that the EL tubes draw low heater current and run very cool, perhaps in part because of the adapters. I do realize that my standard combo is not producing the same level of SQ as yours are, but I'm impressed.

I have Mrs. X's EL12 spez adapters and the ferrite chokes. I have forever sworn off buying any more tubes, but my life history teaches me that means nothing. So I could order a pair of the spez, which are available on Ebay for a reasonable price. But as I recall you didn't think much of the Mrs. X adapter with choke approach. Any thoughts???


----------



## pctazhp

The beauty of marshmallows


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> You give me...and Oskari(?!) renewed hope...CHEERS, m...


I don't need hope, I need a CD transport. Lol.


----------



## connieflyer

hypnos1 said:


> You give me...and Oskari(?!) renewed hope...CHEERS, m...


They used to put a very small hole on the front of the cd tray, you could insert straightened paper clip and push it in, and it would manually open the drawer.  Has been a couple of years since I had to do this but if you have not tried, easy fix.


----------



## connieflyer

Have been looking at this amp, always liked it. Price sounds good. Any advice? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-la-figaro-339-dual-monaural-tube-amplifier.854527/#post-13640938.  Yes Phil, I know I don't need it, but, well, it is there and I may want it here!


----------



## pctazhp

In my younger bachelor days I shared an apartment with 3 other guys. There were 4 girls in the apartment next to us. One of them was named Hope. Late at night we would often say "Well, there's always Hope".


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Have been looking at this amp, always liked it. Price sounds good. Any advice? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-la-figaro-339-dual-monaural-tube-amplifier.854527/#post-13640938.  Yes Phil, I know I don't need it, but, well, it is there and I may want it here!



I think that model is the one UT gave to his son. He spoke highly of it and compared it favorably to Euforia. At that price (and given your vast resources) I'd go for it if I were you. YOU NEED IT!!!!


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> OK @hypnos1 You motivated me to pull out my EL11/EL12 combo and give it a shot in Euforia. I only tried that combo briefly right after I got Euforia and it was still burning in. I must admit it is sounding pretty amazing. Want to do some long-term listening before I decide a comparison to my preferred approved combos. I do like the fact that the EL tubes draw low heater current and run very cool, perhaps in part because of the adapters. I do realize that my standard combo is not producing the same level of SQ as yours are, but I'm impressed.
> 
> I have Mrs. X's EL12 spez adapters and the ferrite chokes. I have forever sworn off buying any more tubes, but my life history teaches me that means nothing. So I could order a pair of the spez, which are available on Ebay for a reasonable price. But as I recall you didn't think much of the Mrs. X adapter with choke approach. Any thoughts???



Hi pct.

Nice to hear you're feeling 'adventurous'(?!) once more lol ...I've been very lonely here in EL land!! ...

Although I'm not too enamoured with Mrs X's move away from wire to pcb construction within some adapters, I can understand the commercial constraints lol. And at least she is (usually) quick to replace if there should in fact be any problems. There doesn't seem to have been a great deal of feedback as to the efficacy of ferrite chokes with the EL12 Spezials, but it appears they can indeed help reduce/eliminate any possible hum from the external anode wire. Perhaps individual environments and the degree of RFI/EMI in the vicinity may dictate just how effective they are!

But given a certain degree of luck, I do believe these Spezials - when driven by EL11s - to be superior in many (if not most!) ways to the 'Holy Grail' (and exorbitantly expensive) GEC/Osram versions of the 6AS7G.

But also, I can't emphasise enough the need to give these tubes *plenty* of burn-in time, if bought NOS...and something I discovered while comparison temperature testing, _*they need a good few hours, spread over a couple of days*_ to 'settle' back in after using 'orthodox' tubes...or, rather, the _*amp*_ needs that time to readjust properly. A short period will not really give a fully accurate picture for assessment purposes!! And a very interesting observation from Chord's Rob Watts could possibly help to explain this need for _very_ extended listening time - with these tubes especially - ie. the important aspect of _transient_ handling....Apparently, the brain can take quite a long while to perceive, assimilate and then 'translate' into a noticeable effect just how well 'notes' are handled in reproduction. And so the overall benefits to final sound delivery by our equipment will depend a good deal on this time factor...as well as the competence of handling in the first place, of course lol!!  And I believe transient handling is just one main area where the EL tubes excel - in combination with the amp, source and DAC, naturally...the latter especially, from my experience with the Hugo2!

So I wish you all the very best if you do indeed break your word and go for it lol! ...and GOOD LUCK!...CHEERS, and goodnight....CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 4, 2017)

I would not characterize you "as being alone" with the EL's.  I still swap them in and out, they are in now, and while I do not have the Spezials el12's the tubes you made up for me, are outstanding.  One thing that, for me, is the sound stage with the EL's.  They are crystal clear, without any emphasis on any one group of frequencies.  The GEC's are also very good indeed, they are also warmer in my estimation.  With female vocalists, it is like having a conversation with them, except, fortunetly they do all the talking!


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 4, 2017)

Here is a nice female voice for you.  

Her husband is very good on strings as well


----------



## connieflyer

And last before I leave Nightwish


----------



## aqsw (Aug 4, 2017)

Hey Guys,

My daughters band just released their first cd. Four of the five members are music teachers.  Check them out on YouTube.

They are  The Wild Homes.

Check out the official album "Sundowners"

My girl wrote the music and lyrics.

They sound great on the Euforia.
Comments appreciated. ( good or bad)

If you like it you can download it next week at most  sites. If you really like it and want a hard copy cd,
They are $10.00 cdn. I will send you one for that  plus actual shipping.


----------



## pctazhp

@aqsw. I'm listening to your daughters full album right now. I like it a lot. You have to be very proud. I don't listen to a lot of contemporary music, so I can't compare it to much that is popular now. But to this Old Geezer it is very appealing, unique and creative. Above all, I'm having a lot of fun listening to it. I don't buy CDs any more, but I'll be looking to down load it. It must be a lot of fun to watch the band's progress. For the convenience of others, this is the YouTube link:



@connieflyer Great music presentation tonight))) I love the rendition of Diamonds & Rust. Always has been one of my favorite Joan Baez songs.

All is sounding beautiful tonight with EL11/EL12 and Euforia


----------



## connieflyer

I really liked her rendition of diamonds and rust used to listen to Joan Baez when I was just a young person. I've been listening with the El 11 and 12 combo as well and I have to admit it is a great combination of tubes. Glad all is well with the girls take care my friend


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> With female vocalists, it is like having a conversation with them, *except, fortunetly they do all the talking*!



You continually totally crack me up  And I agree with you about the EL11/12s


----------



## pctazhp

I just finished listening to the entire Sundowners album. I highly recommend it.


----------



## aqsw (Aug 4, 2017)

Thank you pct.

If anybody really likes it, please share on your social media. These kids could use the approvals.
They really deserve it too.


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## connieflyer

Nothing in the world like a proud papa congratulations!


----------



## aqsw

Thanks CF


----------



## pctazhp

Yesterday and last night I spent a lot of quality time listening to Euforia with EL11/EL12. At the risk of shamefully using OTT language, it is like I all of a sudden have a new, significantly upgraded amp. This is for now my highly preferred combo, even over and above Sylvania 6SN7W/GEC6AS7G. That is also a very special combo, but I’m feeling it just doesn’t have the “excitement” quality of the EL11/12s.

Everything just sounds so “right”. Images and soundstage are clear, layered and anchored. It is the most “organic” sound I have heard in my system. It has punch and strong dynamics while at the same time being relaxed and effortless. Highly resolving. In a word, “magical”. May have to pull the trigger on a pair of the EL12 spez. I have a pair of EL12n that I want to try before I do that.

@connieflyer described these tubes as permitting him to carry on a conversation with female vocalists. Unlike him I have been carrying on conversations with both male and female vocalists, and unlike him I have been doing a lot of talking back.

If I have any negative comment it would be that for HD800S there is just a tad bit too much bass energy for my taste. But that energy does not detract from the clear and wonderful midrange, and it pretty well integrated into the FR. I suspect with the HD800 Classic this would not even be a consideration. For me it is not an issue. Just trying to be thorough in describing my experience so far.

I do want to say that my EL11 drivers are not the mesh plate like @hypnos1 has. I think he may have the only remaining pair in the world. But it is the round-plate version. From what I remember from H1’s early posts (he of course is the expert), the oval plate EL11 really doesn’t sound very different from EL3N tubes.

Also, for anyone who has not followed the history of EL11/12 tubes with Elise and Euforia, I need to say that some have had bad experience in buying defective tubes. Fortunately, I was not one of those. I guess the warning needs to be, buyer be ware.

I was hesitant to post at this point, because I’m a strong believer in long term evaluation of any component or tube. But I’m sure I will be using some combination of EL11/12s a lot, if not most of the time.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> They used to put a very small hole on the front of the cd tray, you could insert straightened paper clip and push it in, and it would manually open the drawer.  Has been a couple of years since I had to do this but if you have not tried, easy fix.



Hi cf...not so easy alas!...I'm afraid Audiolab obviously don't want anyone opening up their gear either - the small screws have the tiniest Torx heads imaginable lol!!....(just might have to get brutal here lol!! ).



connieflyer said:


> I would not characterize you "as being alone" with the EL's.  I still swap them in and out, they are in now, and while I do not have the Spezials el12's the tubes you made up for me, are outstanding.  One thing that, for me, is the sound stage with the EL's.  They are crystal clear, without any emphasis on any one group of frequencies.  The GEC's are also very good indeed, they are also warmer in my estimation.  With female vocalists, it is like having a conversation with them, except, fortunetly they do all the talking!



Glad to see you too are an 'adventurous' soul lol!...and that you continue to 'keep me company'...CHEERS!...

Mind you, as far as I'm concerned, given the number of hours I've now been using these tubes trouble-free, I reckon these are in fact *safer* than stock!!...viz. the far cooler temperatures I mentioned previously. Surely, a transformer running under less load, plus ALL resistors and capacitors operating perfectly well at _*much*_ lower temperatures *must* be good news... not only for longevity, but also for fewer stress-related problems? That's my take on things, anyway lol! ...



pctazhp said:


> Yesterday and last night I spent a lot of quality time listening to Euforia with EL11/EL12. At the risk of shamefully using OTT language, it is like I all of a sudden have a new, significantly upgraded amp. This is for now my highly preferred combo, even over and above Sylvania 6SN7W/GEC6AS7G. That is also a very special combo, but I’m feeling it just doesn’t have the “excitement” quality of the EL11/12s.
> 
> Everything just sounds so “right”. Images and soundstage are clear, layered and anchored. It is the most “organic” sound I have heard in my system. It has punch and strong dynamics while at the same time being relaxed and effortless. Highly resolving. In a word, “magical”. May have to pull the trigger on a pair of the EL12 spez. I have a pair of EL12n that I want to try before I do that.
> 
> ...



Well, pct, you've done a great job of describing these tubes' virtues...even if you still have a good few more hours for your ears and brain to 'digest' that transient aspect covered in depth by the genius Rob Watts, and that I mentioned previously. These ELs really do repay with dividends one's patience with them...more so than any other tubes I've ever used. Sometimes, depending on the system and environment, one might even need to forego listening for a day or so to let them 'settle in', and yet still allow plenty more hours' listening to fully appreciate that magic you spoke of!
Mind you, having said that, Glenn (of Glenn amps) was 'shocked' by the performance of the sister EL3N on first listen, even _before _he configured his own amp specifically for them! But as always of course, different folks have different preferences and gear...

I hear you re. the bass aspect - anything else in the system that may be 'enhancing' the lower end _might_ just be a tad too much for some who are sensitive to bass... but as with yourself, the benefits will most likely outweigh this factor lol!  My T1s seem to be the perfect match, however!!! 

And yes, the _oval_ plate EL11 (often Valvos) sounded (to me) more like the EL3N...which is no bad thing really(!), but I personally find the (round plate) EL11 to have a slightly more balanced FR, and a little less 'lush' in overall presentation...so it's horses for courses... (the mesh-plate EL11 - which in fact has an _oval_ plate! - seems to combine the best of the EL3N with that of the 'pure' EL11...and which suits my own preferences to perfection lol...).

I'm so glad you have rediscovered just what these tubes are capable of...and at prices a good bit below the 'best' 6SN7s and eye-watering powers such as the GEC/Osrams!
I too am sure you will be doing a great deal of listening with these wonderful tubes in place......

ps. The EL12 Spezials do indeed bring an extra bit of magic to the equation...and IMHO also have a slightly better bass response...so GOOD LUCK once more!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

H, sorry, I misspoke, the small hole was next to the cd tray not on it. I am getting old.


----------



## connieflyer

Tonite's selection


----------



## Wreckgar7 (Aug 5, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Yesterday and last night I spent a lot of quality time listening to Euforia with EL11/EL12. At the risk of shamefully using OTT language, it is like I all of a sudden have a new, significantly upgraded amp. This is for now my highly preferred combo, even over and above Sylvania 6SN7W/GEC6AS7G. That is also a very special combo, but I’m feeling it just doesn’t have the “excitement” quality of the EL11/12s.
> 
> Everything just sounds so “right”. Images and soundstage are clear, layered and anchored. It is the most “organic” sound I have heard in my system. It has punch and strong dynamics while at the same time being relaxed and effortless. Highly resolving. In a word, “magical”. May have to pull the trigger on a pair of the EL12 spez. I have a pair of EL12n that I want to try before I do that.
> 
> ...



Im rolling El12N and EL11 right now and its definitely an exciting and slammin combo, although i prefer the Tung Sol 5998 EL11 combo using chord Mojo as DAC and modded HD650. This is however with Elise and not the Euforia. I`d love to hear a comparison between EL12 and EL12N and perhaps EL12 Spez as power tubes, dont know if anyone own all three of them though.

Edit: PCT, try the EL12N and EL3N, thats a really sweet combo.


----------



## connieflyer

Just pulled the El12N and replace with the TS5998 as powers and left the EL11's in as drivers, and I must say this is a very nice combo also, thank you Wreakgar7, for the heads-up. Am really enjoying this. Time will tell where it stacks up, but for now a great sound indeed.


----------



## pctazhp

Last night I substituted my EL12n powers for EL12. First time I had that combo in Euforia. Didn't like it at all. Harsh, less dynamic, less base, less resolution, magic gone. Don't have much good to say about that combo in Euforia with my system. But that's just my personal experience, and not questioning experience of others. 

EL12 powers back in and magic has returned. Will try the EL11/TS5998 combo and EL3N/EL12N combo at some point. I thought I had left EL3s behind forever, but still have 3 pair left. 

I love what I've got right now and don't want to get back into a lot of tube rolling again. But I will try the different combos at some point. And that pair of EL12 spez on Ebay is still floating around in my otherwise empty head 

BTW, as I've put more time in on EL11/EL12 with Euforia the bass issue I mentioned with HD800S is largely gone. Bass is still strong, but has tightened up and is better integrated with rest of FR. This really is a superb combo for me. Maybe I need more time with EL12N, but didn't have a lot of patience last night when I tried it.


----------



## connieflyer

Glad to hear your supposition. All I have are the El 12n so didn't have any way to compare, now perhaps sometime in the not-too-distant future I will look for a pair of EL12. as far as the el12 spez I think I'm going to pass on that has with the tubes and adapter and shipping that's another $200, so I think I better stop this tube purchasing venture. At least for a while. As far as that La Figaro hap that was on sale here, I am going to pass on that as well. Always liked it But the member that is selling it is selling it as is no returns no refunds and for that amount of money there's no way. So I wish him luck.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Glad to hear your supposition. All I have are the El 12n so didn't have any way to compare, now perhaps sometime in the not-too-distant future I will look for a pair of EL12. as far as the el12 spez I think I'm going to pass on that has with the tubes and adapter and shipping that's another $200, so I think I better stop this tube purchasing venture. At least for a while. As far as that La Figaro hap that was on sale here, I am going to pass on that as well. Always liked it But the member that is selling it is selling it as is no returns no refunds and for that amount of money there's no way. So I wish him luck.



I really didn't give the EL12Ns a fair chance. Will get around to that sometime.

As I said, I already have the spez adapters and chokes, but still have to ask myself why bother trying yet one more tube, when what I've got now is working so great for me. I subscribe to several Schiit threads, and I can't believe the audio nervosa (I think that's the term) of some on those threads. They ffitter about every possible "problem" that their minds can manufacturer. Perhaps outsiders view our tube rolling in the same way. And of course, tube rolling can easily lead to amp rolling, DAC rolling, headphone rolling, etc. If budget is not an issue, I see nothing wrong with that. But for me budget is an issue. And I have been through obsessive gear rolling in the past, and the appeal has long since gone. Maybe that's just part of achieving the status of senior citizen.


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, I'm not sure who made my EL12Ns, but here's a picture:


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Tonite's selection




Just listened to this. Very special. Thanks CF


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> BTW, I'm not sure who made my EL12Ns, but here's a picture:


They are all East German, made by RFT, Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> BTW, I'm not sure who made my EL12Ns, but here's a picture:


Hi pct,

*ALL* EL12N were made in the same East German factories, regardless of the name on them (and there are numerous different labels). The parent company was called RFT - Röhrenwerke der DeutschenDemokratischen Republik. You will find the acronyms  RDR, RST and RFT and the letter M(Muhlhausen) on many tubes, as well as Siemens etc etc..

Below should be a list of factories:


WF-VEB Werk für Fernmeldewesen Berlin-Oberschöneweide, Ostendstrasse1-5 

W-VEB Funkwerk Erfurt, Rudolfstrasse47

RWN W-VEB Röhrenwerk "Anna Seghers" Neuhaus am Rennweg

M-VEB Röhrenwerk  Mühlhausen,Thüringen, Eisenacher Strasse 40

For some reason I think the last factory was the main one - Oskari please weigh in - thanks.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> They are all East German, made by RFT, Röhrenwerk Mühlhausen.


O - u beat me to the punch!


----------



## pctazhp

Mordy. I'm impressed with your knowledge.

Brings back memories from 1972 when I crossed through Checkpoint Charlie to spend a day in East Berlin visiting museums. A couple of days later I drove through East Germany to the Polish border where I spent a month. As far as I know didn't meet any member of the Feliks family


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> For some reason I think the last factory was the main one - Oskari please weigh in - thanks.


Yes, the Mühlhausen factory grew to become the biggest maker of receiving tubes in East Germany.


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> Yes, the Mühlhausen factory grew to become the biggest maker of receiving tubes in East Germany.



O. Equally impressed with your knowledge


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Glad to hear your supposition. All I have are the El 12n so didn't have any way to compare, now perhaps sometime in the not-too-distant future I will look for a pair of EL12. as far as the el12 spez I think I'm going to pass on that has with the tubes and adapter and shipping that's another $200, so I think I better stop this tube purchasing venture. At least for a while. As far as that La Figaro hap that was on sale here, I am going to pass on that as well. Always liked it But the member that is selling it is selling it as is no returns no refunds and for that amount of money there's no way. So I wish him luck.



Fear not, cf...will have your EL12s sorted very soon, mon ami! ...and I have to agree with @pctazhp...the ST ('Coke bottle')-shaped tubes are a definite step up from the 12N...a bigger one than from 12 ST to Spezial...(but the latter do bring 'the icing on the cake', if funds permit lol! ).


----------



## connieflyer

Cake, icing, I had no idea that an audio file could also taste so good. If that's the case explain it to me one more time why I still get hungry even though I spend a lot of time under the headphones! No rush on the Els, this was not meant in your direction. It was a question and the spaz version is just going to be too expensive for the amount of gained. I have so many great sounding combinations and the e l 11 and 12 are as you say the icing don't know what Connor did with the cake though!


----------



## pctazhp (Aug 6, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Fear not, cf...will have your EL12s sorted very soon, mon ami! ...and I have to agree with @pctazhp...the ST ('Coke bottle')-shaped tubes are a definite step up from the 12N...a bigger one than from 12 ST to Spezial...(but the latter do bring 'the icing on the cake', if funds permit lol! ).



I knew it was inevitable and that I would not be able to resist the "icing on the cake". So I just ordered one of the 2 good pairs of the spez from Germany left on Ebay. Now there is only one pair. @connieflyer Stop being so stubborn and order that last pair, so you can go straight to the top of the cake !!!!

Edit:  I know that with the adapters EL11/EL12spez won't be as elegant or "classic" as many of the recommended tubes. But I think the EL12spez carries with it a certain unexpected cosmetic appeal. So in the very unlikely case that someone ever visits me who even bothers to look at my Euforia I will enjoy a certain feeling of great superiority


----------



## pctazhp

Now all I need is for Schiit to offer a black Gumby and I will be a complete man


----------



## connieflyer

Cake is so blase now if we were talking pie that would be totally different! Wish you luck with those tubes but for me I'd have to buy a set of adapters as well and I've already bought those gec tubes that I didn't really need. Will probably put the gec tubes the 60 80s up for sale this week. Hope you are doing well Batching it. I know voice to text deal with it!


----------



## connieflyer

Don't see black Gumby being a viable option now.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Don't see black Gumby being a viable option now.



And Old Wise One, why is that?? I know black Gumbys exist and have been available in the past. My mother taught me patience is a virtue. But I never did anything my mother told me, so I may just order a silver Gumby and hide it under the table - it should stay on 24/7 anyway and silver would clash with black Euforia - so tasteless!!!! And I NEED to become a complete man soon. Batching sucks, BTW, but thanks for the good wishes 

Oh wait. If I hide Gumby under the table I will need longer interconnects. Oh my. Life is just one challenge after another !!!!


----------



## connieflyer

I could see that they might offer a special edition at some point, I doubt it, but their whole line is silver and they go for the look of schiit. Even their latest eater is silver with the holes in the top looks like a tiny Gumby. Too bad it didn't work for me but that's the way it goes. They might at some point be able to correct the software so that it does not have a problem with installing with C media device on the system already.


----------



## connieflyer

If you need any suggestions for baching it, let me know, I am getting more experience with it all the time! If it get's too lonely, I can send Connor out to see you, and keep you on your toes!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I could see that they might offer a special edition at some point, I doubt it, but their whole line is silver and they go for the look of schiit. Even their latest eater is silver with the holes in the top looks like a tiny Gumby. Too bad it didn't work for me but that's the way it goes. They might at some point be able to correct the software so that it does not have a problem with installing with C media device on the system already.



Until about a week or so ago they had Yggy available in black. And it looks like the new Vidar amp comes standard in black or silver. My understanding is that in the past Schiit offered various units in painted black when there was a cosmetic flaw on the standard silver version of that unit. And I have seen pictures of black Gumby so it may be possible, but I understand it is not likely. I definitely want to get a Gumby, silver or black, but not a pressing priority right now that is causing any lack of sleep or lack of appetite for cake, donuts, ice cream, peach pie, Dairy Queen, etc.


----------



## connieflyer

I see you have all the usual, well, I am alone now, so I can eat all the junk food I want! syndrome.  Well, I hope you can get the one you want, black would have been my choice as well, but one thing it is easier to at night, in the dark, so there are side benefits!


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks CF. I also have a 2 or 3 day supply of borsch left, so there is some hope for a few days ))

Forgot to say I'm sorry about the problem you had with Eitr. Real bummer.


----------



## connieflyer

I did get a refund, so I am fine with it. I will be staying with coax so no problem.  I think I am going to sell off some tubes, and acculate great wealth, found a super connie for sale,  could be fun!


----------



## connieflyer

A selection for @hypnos1 I am sure he will enjoy it.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I did get a refund, so I am fine with it. I will be staying with coax so no problem.  I think I am going to sell off some tubes, and acculate great wealth, found a super connie for sale,  could be fun!



I also have a lot of money tied up in low use, top rated, FA recommended tubes. Now that I have re-discovered EL11/12 I probably won't use them much any more. But my initial experience with selling something on HeadFi was not encouraging. My Elise was defective when it reached the buyer. I refunded his money and told him to keep Elise. It was the only fair thing to do, and I didn't want to deal with the expense and hassle of returning it to Poland. So I'm not sure I want to try to sell my tubes. I do need to get around to selling my Valhalla 2 and eventually Bimby. Not sure if I want to try selling my lightly used LDIV-SE.

I hope you will have your connie in time for my move to Ukraine


----------



## connieflyer

I may sell them on Ebay, bigger market there.  Don't think I would have "Connie" by then, and it would need more than gas!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> I may sell them on Ebay, bigger market there.  Don't think I would have "Connie" by then, and it would need more than gas!



If you decide to try Ebay, good luck. Let me know how it goes.

Forgot about the gas. I thought airplanes few on leftover pretzels.


----------



## connieflyer

The aircrew did but the engines would seize with pretzels!


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> (...)I could see a company making a one box DAC power amp/headphone amp that would hopefully bring down the cost.(...).


The Soekris dac1541looks fairly interesting in this regard. @Torq has had some experience with it in his "Life after Yggdrasil" thread on the _other_ forum (which, apparently, cannot be named here?) and there are certainly some interesting traits to consider.


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> *ALL* EL12N were made in the same East German factories, regardless of the name on them (and there are numerous different labels). The parent company was called RFT - Röhrenwerke der DeutschenDemokratischen Republik. You will find the acronyms  RDR, RST and RFT and the letter M(Muhlhausen) on many tubes, as well as Siemens etc etc..
> 
> ...


Does this include my Siemens EL12n? (probably, although seller said they were TFK but I think I was dupped)


----------



## Oskari

angpsi said:


> Does this include my Siemens EL12n? (probably, although seller said they were TFK but I think I was dupped)


Yes.


----------



## angpsi

Hi @connieflyer, which GECs are you looking to part with? Also, I still got a pair of TFK EL12 on sale if you're interested (plus a pair of Siemens EL12n but I know you're all set with these), all my other ELs are gone. If you want to keep this private drop me a pm; tried to do so myself but apparently there's a privacy issue that won't let me reach you.


----------



## angpsi

Oskari said:


> Yes.


I knew it... did my own research when I was putting them up for sale on eBay. Probably have to lower the price now... Thanks though, much appreciated.


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> The Soekris dac1541looks fairly interesting in this regard. @Torq has had some experience with it in his "Life after Yggdrasil" thread on the _other_ forum (which, apparently, cannot be named here?) and there are certainly some interesting traits to consider.



First, I would hope that all could agree there are many paths to audio excellence. The path we owners of an FA amp have taken is just one of those paths.

When I first started getting into high end audio in the early 70s I had a 40 watt per channel, solid state Marantz receiver powering a pair of the original Bose 901 speakers. I loved that system. But high-end audio quickly began moving into separates. Partly, I think, because people wanted flexibility and the ability to change preamp and amps, without having to change both. And partly, because there seemed a belief that separates benefited from separate power supplies. I have no idea is the latter still holds true today. The former certainly still is a consideration.

If I were starting all over today, I would probably make the 5-hour drive to Los Angeles to visit the Shittir store and listen to the Yggy/Rag stack. If I liked it, and it was within my budget, I probably would buy it. Particularly, with the alternative being to order an amp from Poland without benefit of audition or right of return.

But having taken the FA route for my amp I have no regrets, nor the need to consider other alternatives. That is mainly due to the fact that I love my Euforia, but also due to other personal considerations. Everyone has to choose their own path or paths and I try to respect each person’s choice as long as they don’t insist theirs is the only way and try to cram it down my throat. I don’t see any reason competing amps (separates or part of a DAC-amp combo) can’t be discussed on this thread. But I would hope that we keep in mind that on most HeadFi threads dedicated to a particular product or group of products from the same manufacturer it is common practice to focus on the purpose for which the thread was created, and to the extent we want to give serious consideration or discuss in detail products in competition with FA we do the work necessary to find each of the different threads dedicated to the competing product or products we may be interested in, and continue to focus here on Euforia or other FA amps.

Sorry angpsi. This is not directed at you. Your post just brought up these thoughts for me.


----------



## angpsi

pctazhp said:


> First, I would hope that all could agree there are many paths to audio excellence. The path we owners of an FA amp have taken is just one of those paths.
> 
> When I first started getting into high end audio in the early 70s I had a 40 watt per channel, solid state Marantz receiver powering a pair of the original Bose 901 speakers. I loved that system. But high-end audio quickly began moving into separates. Partly, I think, because people wanted flexibility and the ability to change preamp and amps, without having to change both. And partly, because there seemed a belief that separates benefited from separate power supplies. I have no idea is the latter still holds true today. The former certainly still is a consideration.
> 
> ...


Don't worry Pct, no offence taken. My other option was to tell you to keep an eye for these Melz tubes; a large part of those available on eBay are being sold by an Ukrainian seller!


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Don't worry Pct, no offence taken. My other option was to tell you to keep an eye for these Melz tubes; a large part of those available on eBay are being sold by an Ukrainian seller!



Ha)))  Ukraine is probably 2 or 3 months down the road. By then I may have to clear any tube purchase with Russian authorities


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 6, 2017)

aqsw said:


> Thank you pct.
> 
> If anybody really likes it, please share on your social media. These kids could use the approvals.
> They really deserve it too.



Great album, Aqsw.  Liked and shared it in social media...and let me tell you, my daughter Sandra is also lead singer in a group, a very good one, more into modern jazz /pop than rock. They perform from time to time in nice jazz clubs and the like.  She already recorded a few songs, and they are after a  deal with music studios for a full production...so I know how difficult it is (for any new group) to record a whole CD and have it published...congrats to your daughter !!    cheers


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Great album, Aqsw.  Liked and shared it in social media...and let me tell you, my daughter Sandra is also lead singer in a group, a very good one, more into modern jazz /pop than rock. They perform from time to time in nice jazz clubs and the like.  She already recorded a few songs, and they are after a  deal with music studios for a full production...so I know how difficult it is (for any new group) to record a whole CD and have it published...congrats to your daughter !!    cheers



Best wishes to both your daughter and @aqsw's...it must indeed be an extremely difficult sphere to get a good foothold in. I hope their efforts are well rewarded! Don't have much truck with 'social media', I'm afraid (apart from here with you guys!!), so my own support will have to remain 'transcendental' lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## pctazhp

Glen Campbell had very close ties to Phoenix. I have so many memories that are associated with his music. Very sad news for me. May he rest in peace. 

He and Jimmy Webb were an unbeatable combination.


----------



## connieflyer

An unbeatable combination of talent always enjoyed their music


----------



## pctazhp

In doing some research on 120V/240V step-up step-down transformers I came across this interesting new thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...-affordably-clean-power.857448/#post-13650110

It deals more with the subject of power isolation transformers, but I did find some interesting information on transformers that would serve both for noise isolation and step-up/step-down. The Topaz transformers apparently are no longer made, but used ones can be found with some searching.

Many have to be hand wired at the front and back ends with the proper plug and receptacle. I would not try that myself, but would look to a qualified electrician or other professional. Also there is an interesting Amazon link for a device that can measure total wattage use by a system.


----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer Seeings that you and I are the last two left here to fold up the chairs and lock the doors, just wondering if you remember these:







After we secure the doors, let's go grab a beer


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 9, 2017)

Funny, you should select the fleetwoods I was just listening to them the other day. Going through some of the old copies of music that I had , nice to listen to some of the good old music. And we might be considered the last ones around if we keep listening to this stuff! I think there'll still be a few around occasionally, hope all is well with you


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds good on the "secure the doors" and go have a beer!  Have not heard that phrase about securing the doors in many, many moons! I think the country is not in as good a shape as President Trump let's on.  I just got a call letting me know that our "unit is being recalled to service"  If this is true, we are in baddddd shape!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Sounds good on the "secure the doors" and go have a beer!  Have not heard that phrase about securing the doors in many, many moons! I think the country is not in as good a shape as President Trump let's on.  I just got a call letting me know that our "unit is being recalled to service"  If this is true, we are in baddddd shape!



OMG. I need to find a place underground to hide. Somehow thinking of you as our last line of defense is not exactly reassuring 
.


----------



## connieflyer

Oh come on  now! I still remember what the drill is when we went to a 4.0 Barrier when President Kennedy was shot!  Fun fun fun, 14-15 hour barrier flight, land, 3-6 hours post flight docs and repair, 6 hours sleep and chow hall, and back for another barrier flight. They thought at the time it was the Russians, and WW3 was going to start.  Exciting times.  Here is one for you, if you are old enough to remember


----------



## connieflyer

Now this is pure excitement!


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Oh come on  now! I still remember what the drill is when we went to a 4.0 Barrier when President Kennedy was shot!  Fun fun fun, 14-15 hour barrier flight, land, 3-6 hours post flight docs and repair, 6 hours sleep and chow hall, and back for another barrier flight. They thought at the time it was the Russians, and WW3 was going to start.  Exciting times.  Here is one for you, if you are old enough to remember




That sounds almost as bad as the ordeal I endured driving up to report in to Naval Justice School in Newport RI on Easter during the worst snow storm on the east coast for the year. I hit a snow bank right outside of New Haven and didn't quite make it in time. They didn't mistake me for the Russians. I remember something being said about Gomer Pyle. 

You know. If it weren't for YouTube no one would believe me if I tried to explain the music I used to listen to !!!!


----------



## pctazhp

Top two memories from American Graffiti: Wolfman Jack and Suzanne Somers


----------



## connieflyer

Oh yes the thigh master!  Loved that commercial!


----------



## connieflyer

Funny thing is I don't remember that guy being in the commercial!


----------



## connieflyer

Of course this one was hilarious!  The Butt master!


----------



## connieflyer

Now it did not get better than Bob Seger!


----------



## connieflyer

Last one, do you remember the Doors?


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Funny thing is I don't remember that guy being in the commercial!


Which guy? There was a guy in there?


----------



## connieflyer

Yes, I never saw it before, but now I am older more "observant"!


----------



## connieflyer

Are these guys not cool


----------



## connieflyer

Now how about the Hollies PCT


----------



## connieflyer

A little country for PCT


----------



## connieflyer

They had real cars back then!  2600 and done!


----------



## Oskari

You're on a roll, CF!


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


>



Dääm, that's hypnotic!


----------



## Oskari

_Another Brick In The Wall_


----------



## Oskari

_Behind Blue Eyes_


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> _Behind Blue Eyes_



That whole "Who's Next" album was so wonderfully done, wasn't it? 

I loved "My Wife" and "Gettin' in Tune" and "Goin' mobile" and "Bargain"  too.  The whole LP was so great.  Still pleases, all these years later.


----------



## MIKELAP

Oskari said:


> This might have been specifically about the C3g. Those are quite fragile.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...e-rolling-guide.563884/page-554#post-11055930


----------



## Oskari

Yes, _Who's Next_ ROCKS!


_Won't Get Fooled Again_


----------



## myphone (Aug 10, 2017)

Have been using 12SX7 (the real RCA ones with twisted leads inside) as drivers in Euforia in the past week. Power tubes were GEC 6080, TungSol 7236 and TS 5998. Phones were HD800, T1 and HD650.

Other driver tubes used for comparison were TS 12SN7 RP and 12 volt Sylvania 12SN7 bad boys.

Tonality relative scale: TS RPs are light, extended, and transparent; Sylvania bad boys are sweat, warm, and solid;

12SX7s are in the middle, sweat, quiet and transparent. Mids are seductive, and palpable. Voice and acoustic instruments have more air and bigger presentation. It is similar to SS vs tube.

Treble and bass are nicely present when called upon.

I have used 12SX7 for close to 20 year in power amplifier without comparing to other 12SN7s. 

Finally start to appreciate how good these 12SX7 tubes are in Euforia.

Have not tried the other 2 types of 12SX7 yet: the RCA ones look like regular 12SN7 and the GE Canadian ones look like 3-hole sylvania Bad Boys (except shorter base)


----------



## connieflyer

Must be played with headphones on at least once. It just might blow your mind


----------



## connieflyer

The guitar work is great.


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## connieflyer

And for @hypnos1 , clannad


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## pctazhp

@connieflyer  In case you missed this:


----------



## connieflyer

Saw that,thanks


----------



## mordy

Here is a tribute to all those who do not post anymore:


----------



## connieflyer

Been a long time since I have heard this!


----------



## pctazhp

A while back I wrote about the great SQ results I was getting with EL11/12 combo. Yesterday the EL12 spez pair I ordered from Germany arrived much sooner than I expected. I put them in the adapters I already had from Mrs. X, which includes the “octopus” cable for the top connection. I was immediately met with a horrible hum. That was easily solved by touching both adapter cables but that didn’t seem like a viable long term solution!!!

I then put a 5mm ferrite choke I had ordered from Amazon on each adapter cable. That was a little tricky. The chokes came locked without instructions of how to open. After a little effort though I got them open. I had to wrap each adapter cable with some aluminum foil to get a tight fit. That helped with the hum, but it was still completely unacceptable.

Then I remembered from the earlier spez discussion on the Elise thread that the positioning of the headphone cable was important. With a little experimentation, I was able to completely eliminate the hum. Suddenly, there was absolute QUIET, even with Euforia volume cranked up to maximum (without music playing of course). It was like an ancient graveyard in the wee hours of the morning.

This combination, in my system and with my ears, is now my unqualified holy grail for Euforia. It takes Euforia to a level I could not have imagined. Highly, highly resolving, but on good recordings, musical and magical.

This is not a euphonic or colored combo. It will not compensate for bad recordings. To me it is as close to neutral as I have ever heard with Euforia or Elise. I’m sure there are amps that can achieve more, but I can’t imagine what qualities they would add to improve on what I am hearing.

As far as I know, @hypnos1 and I are the only two who are using this combination. And H1, with his dexterity and knowledge, has set up his tubes in a special way. I suspect few others will try this combination. EL11s and EL12s are not for the faint of heart. People have reported buying tubes that were DOA or failed quickly. They all require adapters, and the spez requires a special adapter with the cable. But I am confident anyone who can get to the point I’m at will not be disappointed. In fact, I am sure they would be thrilled. And I have no reason to believe this would also be true with Elise.

This is a picture of my current set up. The medal headphone stand is actually part of the hum solution. If I move it, the hum immediately returns. And if I put HD800S on it, the hum returns.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> A while back I wrote about the great SQ results I was getting with EL11/12 combo. Yesterday the EL12 spez pair I ordered from Germany arrived much sooner than I expected. I put them in the adapters I already had from Mrs. X, which includes the “octopus” cable for the top connection. I was immediately met with a horrible hum. That was easily solved by touching both adapter cables but that didn’t seem like a viable long term solution!!!
> 
> I then put a 5mm ferrite choke I had ordered from Amazon on each adapter cable. That was a little tricky. The chokes came locked without instructions of how to open. After a little effort though I got them open. I had to wrap each adapter cable with some aluminum foil to get a tight fit. That helped with the hum, but it was still completely unacceptable.
> 
> ...


Hi pct, 
Which brand did u get of the EL12 Spez?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> Which brand did u get of the EL12 Spez?



Mordy:  They're Telefunken Better grab then while you can 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL12-spe...590695?hash=item41c9355867:g:hgIAAOSwCU1Y3fqV


----------



## pctazhp

Mordy:  If you buy that pair and don't like them, @connieflyer will buy them from you and give you my address so I have an extra pair


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> Mordy:  If you buy that pair and don't like them, @connieflyer will buy them from you and give you my address so I have an extra pair


I am unable to reach CF via PM.....


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> I am unable to reach CF via PM.....



That's fortunate, because if you did he would deny knowing me


----------



## connieflyer

Moody, who is this malecontent. That you are discussing tubes with?  Sounds like the same person that sends me SPAM!!!!!


----------



## pctazhp

Did I hear someone say they are hungry for Spam?


----------



## connieflyer

Would not be the first time I had a fried spam sandwich!  Monty Python was a piece of work. My sister had a New Years. Eve party every year, and the party would pause so we could always watch The search for the Holy Grail , loved the horse less riders and the knight blocking their way !


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> A while back I wrote about the great SQ results I was getting with EL11/12 combo. Yesterday the EL12 spez pair I ordered from Germany arrived much sooner than I expected. I put them in the adapters I already had from Mrs. X, which includes the “octopus” cable for the top connection. I was immediately met with a horrible hum. That was easily solved by touching both adapter cables but that didn’t seem like a viable long term solution!!!
> 
> I then put a 5mm ferrite choke I had ordered from Amazon on each adapter cable. That was a little tricky. The chokes came locked without instructions of how to open. After a little effort though I got them open. I had to wrap each adapter cable with some aluminum foil to get a tight fit. That helped with the hum, but it was still completely unacceptable.
> 
> ...



Hi pct...congrats first of all for rousing me from my slumber (before I return to it shortly lol!), but mostly for being rewarded for your bravery - which fortune favours, of course!...WELL DONE!

I'm so glad you managed to work around that dreaded hum, and that the headphone cable positioning issue helped greatly in this . It really is such a shame these tubes can be rather 'tricky'...but get it right and yes - as you too have discovered - they can indeed bring wonderful rewards! And things will get even better yet, with a good few more hours on them...not to mention when you get your Gumby!!  As with Euforia herself, these EL tubes just keep upping their game in step with upgrades in the rest of the system...and this even applies to the interconnect cables, as with - for some - the power cables. Having thought my pure (99.9%), soft-annealed silver interconnects couldn't be beaten, a fellow-member's adapted headphone cable using Ultra-Pure OCC (single crystal) silver wire proved otherwise! And so, given the horrendous prices for cables using this material, it's time for some DIY again...when I can get the time, that is - for once I'm grateful for the long wait for some wire and Teflon tubing from Taiwan lol!!!  

ps. I'm finding that the downside of splashing out on such as my Naim source, Hugo2 DAC/AMP and ASF3000 means other (also expensive!) system element upgrades can bring improvements that otherwise probably wouldn't be noticeable...and further down that rabbit hole we go lol!...(as you yourself have enjoyed(?!!) in the past, but are now wiser(??!!!)...)...CHEERS!...and now, perchance to dream of winning the Lottery...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...BFN


----------



## connieflyer

Nice to see the (Master) back again.  I too have been experimenting a bit.  Not quite like PCT, but adventurous none the less.  I made a pot of Spanish Rice, enough for three of four meals, recipe called for Diced tomatoes, looking at the cans in the grocery, I saw the tomatoes with green onions and Habeneros peppers, I figured it might spice it up some, had a plate for dinner, now wish I had only made enough for one meal! Had to run to the store and get ice cream, I am afraid for my old system, on the 'morrow!


----------



## pctazhp

Thanks a lot @hypnos1. I echo @connieflyer. Nice to see the Master back. I am loving the spez, and was trying to be careful not to use OTT language, but it is very special with the EL11 driver. I understand more time is needed. I actually meant to say that but forgot. And yes. I see Gumby as my icing on the cake - final move. This hobby can be a bottomless pit, and I'm just not willing to find out what's at the bottom of that pit!!!

CF:  If you ever truly run out of food, don't forget your Gumby has a buritto filter


----------



## pctazhp (Aug 13, 2017)

I want to say a little about my HD800S which I have had for over a year and a half and used extensively with both Elise and Euforia. When I bought it I had a 30-day return privilege and took full advantage of it. I realize it is not the most resolving headphone made, including perhaps the HD800 which I have never heard. I decided to keep it because I felt for me it was highly resolving, yet at the same time performed in a stellar fashion regardless of what genre I threw at it. I have yet to find a genre for which I don't think it is highly suited. Since then I have also found it scaled quite admirably with the different tube combos I have used on my tube-rolling journey that has now come to an end and with my move to Euforia.

I'm a one-headphone guy and I'm confident HD800S will remain with me as long as I have functioning ears and some kind of music receptor left in my brain. In my audiophile days I learned there would always be a "latest and greatest". But looking back I now know that when a truly special product came on the market it would almost invariably stand the test of time - often for decades.

Edit:  I should probably also add that I suspect it (and the Classic) is the most comfortable headphone made.


----------



## pctazhp

Quick update on EL12 spez. My setup has stabilized to where I can again put HD800S on medal headphone stand without a hum problem. And SQ continues to improve.


----------



## Johnnysound

My Euforia (ordered without tubes) is currently thru customs clearance...arrived last friday at Panama in just five days with UPS, all the way from Poland.

While I waited for the amp, made some tube shopping, and yes, those TFKs are quite expensive ! Paid around $ 90 for a pair of black glass EL11 round plates, 1950, from a reputable german seller, both tested at 39 ma (which is near NOS as I understand) but found both the TFK EL12  and EL12 spezials way overpriced for my taste.  Luckily, a seller accepted my offer of $ 50 for a pair of NOS in original boxes Tesla EL12sp, sixties vintage from the famous Virchlavy factory.  The seller was asking $ 90 a pair but accepting offers, and sold his stock of 12 pairs or so in about a week...I wonder to whom (lol). I also got a pair of RFT EL12N, but those are reasonably priced.
My shopping frenzy included a pair of brand new Svetlana 6H5C from rare vintage 1960 (military version of Feliks standard 6H13C) that look, well, military, beautifully made, and, hold on, got some 11 around NOS 7N7s at 5 bucks each !  including very interesting "bad boy" long bottles in matched pairs: National Union, Lansdale JAN -CBRZ,  Sylvania US Navy black glass, among others...
Well, a lot to experiment with the Euforia.


----------



## pctazhp

@Johnnysound  Exciting news about the imminent arrival of your Euforia. You have certainly proved to be a skilled and clever tube-purchaser.  The Tesla EL12sp looks gorgeous. Do you have the adapters?


----------



## Johnnysound

pctazhp said:


> @Johnnysound  Exciting news about the imminent arrival of your Euforia. You have certainly proved to be a skilled and clever tube-purchaser.  The Tesla EL12sp looks gorgeous. Do you have the adapters?



Yes of course...I hope they sound as good as they look !


----------



## pctazhp

Johnnysound said:


> Yes of course...I hope they sound as good as they look !



If your Tesla sounds as good as mine (which I'm sure they will) you will have shot straight to the top. It seems so unfair that a newcomer like you can go straight to the summit without having to spend gobs of money on other tubes chasing the holy grail. But there are always new frontiers to explore. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-...844837?hash=item25d7c5a765:g:XHsAAOSws5pZLK~9


----------



## pctazhp

Either no one reads this thread any more or no one disagrees with me. I know the later is not true. I'm trying to think up an argument I can pick with myself


----------



## Tunkejazz

OMG, shopped these as "6080wb valves" from an Italian guy for 20 EUR + shipping...not bad! I think I got the last Bendix pair from him!


----------



## Tunkejazz

pctazhp said:


> If your Tesla sounds as good as mine (which I'm sure they will) you will have shot straight to the top. It seems so unfair that a newcomer like you can go straight to the summit without having to spend gobs of money on other tubes chasing the holy grail. But there are always new frontiers to explore. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-...844837?hash=item25d7c5a765:g:XHsAAOSws5pZLK~9



I am trying to hold my finger from ordering more tubes, my wife has started giving me "the look" every time a new package arrives at home. So please...


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


>


That is beautiful. I hope the tubes work well.


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Either no one reads this thread any more or no one disagrees with me.


I don't disagree with you, Phil.


----------



## Johnnysound

pctazhp said:


> If your Tesla sounds as good as mine (which I'm sure they will) you will have shot straight to the top. It seems so unfair that a newcomer like you can go straight to the summit without having to spend gobs of money on other tubes chasing the holy grail. But there are always new frontiers to explore. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-...844837?hash=item25d7c5a765:g:XHsAAOSws5pZLK~9



Hahaha !  You got it, Pzt.  Going straight to the summit without having to spend gobs of money on other tubes is the very reason why I am here.  But I am not exactly a newcomer, after some 5 years or so in the old LD Thread...  from the LD mods  "euforic" times I managed to get a small collection of nice 6SN7s and 6AS7Gs  all compatible, so I wonder where to begin with the Euforia, which I will use mostly as a preamp.  I think will begin with the "standard" setup and then will go step by step...as you know, in preamp duties the results are not exactly the same as an HP amp, with amps, cables and speakers to drive the sound is not as "pure" and some tubes do better than others...


----------



## Johnnysound

Oskari said:


> That is beautiful. I hope the tubes work well.


Check the rhodium plated top contact & pins in the second pic.  Nice detail.  As they say, tubes are not made like this any more...


----------



## Oskari

Tunkejazz said:


> I am trying to hold my finger from ordering more tubes, my wife has started giving me "the look" every time a new package arrives at home. So please...


Office address…


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 17, 2017)

Johnnysound said:


> My Euforia (ordered without tubes) is currently thru customs clearance...arrived last friday at Panama in just five days with UPS, all the way from Poland.
> 
> While I waited for the amp, made some tube shopping, and yes, those TFKs are quite expensive ! Paid around $ 90 for a pair of black glass EL11 round plates, 1950, from a reputable german seller, both tested at 39 ma (which is near NOS as I understand) but found both the TFK EL12  and EL12 spezials way overpriced for my taste.  Luckily, a seller accepted my offer of $ 50 for a pair of NOS in original boxes Tesla EL12sp, sixties vintage from the famous Virchlavy factory.  The seller was asking $ 90 a pair but accepting offers, and sold his stock of 12 pairs or so in about a week...I wonder to whom (lol). I also got a pair of RFT EL12N, but those are reasonably priced.
> My shopping frenzy included a pair of brand new Svetlana 6H5C from rare vintage 1960 (military version of Feliks standard 6H13C) that look, well, military, beautifully made, and, hold on, got some 11 around NOS 7N7s at 5 bucks each !  including very interesting "bad boy" long bottles in matched pairs: National Union, Lansdale JAN -CBRZ,  Sylvania US Navy black glass, among others...
> Well, a lot to experiment with the Euforia.



Hi J...good to see you're really getting into the swing of things. Please be sure to keep us updated on all your findings...once your special package arrives lol!! ...



pctazhp said:


> Either no one reads this thread any more or no one disagrees with me. I know the later is not true. I'm trying to think up an argument I can pick with myself



Be assured pct....I'm keeping a close eye...(even if it is only occasionally lol!! ...).

And that's great news on how your 12 Spezials are 'settling down'...you are now well and truly on the the road to Nirvana...LUCKY YOU!!......

I personally believe these particular tubes to be one of hi-fi world's best kept secrets, when driven by either EL11 or EL3N tubes (sssshhhh!!!)...even for us lucky F-A amp owners, despite not being specifically configured for them!... I've read on several occasions how such 'unorthodox' tubes can _sometimes _be star performers in circuits where strictly, they have no right to be lol!!

For me, and after many months' use, they have proved to be the least 'niggly' (and quietest) of all the tubes I have ever tried...including the configured-for ones! Admittedly, I haven't been as unlucky as some regarding their (EL11) reliability, but most vendors are pretty good when dealing with such problems. And besides, ALL (old especially) tubes can have potential problems lol!...(just my six pennyworth! ). I wish you continued enjoyment......



Johnnysound said:


> Check the rhodium plated top contact & pins in the second pic.  Nice detail.  As they say, tubes are not made like this any more...



 Yo J...they do indeed look just as enticing as the 'original' Telefunkens. And I'm quite sure they'll also* sound* as good lol!! Actually, I'm fast coming to the conclusion that more than pretty well any other tube, these EL12 Spezials appear to perform equally magnificently regardless of the factory where they were made (or how labelled!)... either TFK per se (W. Germany); RFT (E. Germany); Valvo (???); Siemens, etc. or Tesla. I suspect that the parent TFK folks insisted on very high quality standards for this tube, wherever they were made...or at least tried their darndest lol!!!...(that's my hunch, anyway!!)....

Hopefully, as with @pctazhp, you will be able to deal with any hum that might present itself...a possible downside of the external anode wire. Remember also the HP cable positioning as a possible factor, along with nearby sources of EMI/RFI...including mobile 'phones, routers, PCs etc. etc. Best wishes and GOOD LUCK to you too, J...




Oskari said:


> Office address…



Your usual pithy, concise self, O...and always welcome to see here...CHEERS!!!...

ps. Aren't you glad I no longer expect you to be arbiter between Hugo2 and Yggdrasil, mon ami?...As far as I'm concerned...*it's no contest, lol!!!* ...this diminutive marvel is still blowing me away more by the day...but that's another story!! ...


----------



## pctazhp

@hypnos1 It's only been about a week for me with EL12 spez and I have only driven them with EL11s, although I have plenty of EL3Ns I could try. But I completely agree with you regarding the EL11/EL12 spez.


----------



## connieflyer

Of course, you do, don't we all?!?!?!?! He is the King!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Aren't you glad I no longer expect you to be arbiter between Hugo2 and Yggdrasil, mon ami?


Yes.


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> OMG, shopped these as "6080wb valves" from an Italian guy for 20 EUR + shipping...not bad! I think I got the last Bendix pair from him!


Hi Tunkejazz,

You are very lucky - the going rate is $130-160/pair. Does the seller have any more?


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Yes.



CHICKEN!!! ...


----------



## Tunkejazz (Aug 18, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> 
> You are very lucky - the going rate is $130-160/pair. Does the seller have any more?


The ebay ad is still there, but I am not sure he has more. I think the other two were Raytheon.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/VALVOLE-6080-WB-due-Funzionante-perfettamente-come-nuove-vedi-descrizione-/253100798945?hash=item3aedfbb3e1:g:0fcAAOSwzgBY4S6t&_trkparms=pageci%3A018415e6-8446-11e7-b4cc-74dbd180c4a3%7Cparentrq%3Af6ae073a15d0a9c142568d0efffb37f3%7Ciid%3A5

Edit: you can see in the ebay image that one is Bendix and the other Raytheon or similar. I asked him if he had 2 Bendix.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> CHICKEN!!! ...


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


>



No, no, no O...surely _this_ is more your style lol, yes?!! ...


----------



## connieflyer

A light moment for you Hynos1


----------



## connieflyer

Another trio of note, we used to listen to this in what passed for barracks, sadly more than 500 miles for most


----------



## pctazhp

Loved Benny, the K Trio and PP&M. Saw the Trio live twice and PP&M once. At one concert, the Trio said they had never actually been to Kingston. They just thought it was a cool name. They also said the song most requested at their concerts over the years was John Stewart’s Chilly Winds.

In my college days, I actually had to bail some of my buddies out of the Tijuana Jail.


----------



## pctazhp




----------



## connieflyer

Only Marines could do this


----------



## pctazhp




----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 19, 2017)

And...customs finally said ok,  get your Euforia tax free,  no duties at all.  UPS will deliver tomorrow...I hope.    Unfair privileges of international organizations, as Pzt would say.  Also,  Lukasz  managed to deduct the VAT from the price, good news...


----------



## pctazhp

Johnnysound said:


> And...customs finally said ok,  get your Euforia tax free,  no duties at all.  UPS will deliver tomorrow...I hope.    Unfair privileges of international organizations, as Pzt would say.  Also,  Lukasz  managed to deduct the VAT from the price, good news...



Soon VAT, duties and all that will be a thing of the past, and you will be awash in beautiful music


----------



## pctazhp

All the GECs, ELs, Fotons, multibits and OTLs would mean nothing if we didn't have beautiful music to listen to.


----------



## connieflyer

A beautiful rendition, thanks for sharing, and your wise words as well!


----------



## Oskari

You might like this, CJ.


_Suomen laulu_


----------



## connieflyer

I think I recognize Hypnos1 in the second row in the back forth fellow over he sings well!


----------



## Tunkejazz

Currently listening to Loreena Mckennitt - Dante's Prayer, with Sylvanias 6SN7W + GEC 6080 and HD800.
Never heard this song like this. I am ... goosebumpy


----------



## pctazhp

Tunkejazz said:


> Currently listening to Loreena Mckennitt - Dante's Prayer, with Sylvanias 6SN7W + GEC 6080 and HD800.
> Never heard this song like this. I am ... goosebumpy



Goose bumps are good. Your mention of Loreena should surely get @hypnos1 attention.


----------



## aqsw

H- has a mad crush on that woman!
I don't blame him. She's from about 60 miles from here. My son in law actually taught music there.

Anyways, I have gone from about three months of the stock system, to the EL12N powers and stock drivers.
A little less power but I feel the system is a little clearer and soundstage has increased. The soundstage was very good before.
This is all done on my Elears with Hivemind cable. The T1s are used only when I need that 12' cable to reach my massage chair.


----------



## aqsw

Actually thinking of selling my T1s. I would like to give a Feliks owner first chance, since these sound pretty good with our amps.
I am the second owner. These are in very good shape. I would rate them an 8. I'm very fussy. The original owner thought he had about 250 hours.
I have about 50.

High serial #. Just over #10000.

PM me if interested. I'm sure we could make a good deal.


----------



## pctazhp

Since this is shameless promotion day, PM me if you want GEC6AS7G, GEC6080, Bendix slotted 6080 or Sylvania 6SN7W pairs  All low hours and pctazhp ear-tested


----------



## Tunkejazz

pctazhp said:


> Goose bumps are good. Your mention of Loreena should surely get @hypnos1 attention.



The funny thing is that my father got "The mask and the mirror" when I was a teenager, but somehow her music made into me even at that early age.


----------



## connieflyer

I know what you mean that was the first album I bought was the mask in the mirror and bought everyone since she has that kind of voice that just holds your attention and extremely pleasurable. My wife and I are going to see her at a concert before the wife got sick very sad we didn't get to see her


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> And...customs finally said ok,  get your Euforia tax free,  no duties at all.  UPS will deliver tomorrow...I hope.    Unfair privileges of international organizations, as Pzt would say.  Also,  Lukasz  managed to deduct the VAT from the price, good news...



Good news J?...bloomin' marvellous, if you ask me lol  ...WELL DONE!!...CHEERS!...CJ


Oskari said:


> You might like this, CJ.
> 
> You know what I like O...stuff to stir the soul...grazie mille...
> 
> _Suomen laulu_






Tunkejazz said:


> Currently listening to Loreena Mckennitt - Dante's Prayer, with Sylvanias 6SN7W + GEC 6080 and HD800.
> Never heard this song like this. I am ... goosebumpy



Hi T...@pctazhp sure was spot on...my antennae can pick up mention of my dear Loreena from across the seas (as @aqsw also knows lol!!) . Elise and Euforia were built for her...and vice versa!!!
And after the haunting 'Dante's Prayer', to really test your system why not give 'Kecharitomene' (from An Ancient Muse) a go...especially the build up to the frantic final section - pace, rhythm and timing showcased...not to mention bass/percussion control. I've always admired Elise's ability to handle these aspects very well indeed, but Euforia (with a little help from nearly £5000 worth of ancillaries lol!!  ) has made me fall in love with her all over again! ...And while you're at it, don't miss 'Beneath a Phrygian Sky'...WOW!...

But for stupendous bass and soundstage/positioning effects trialling, Sade's 'Soldier of Love' album takes some beating!!...(but beware if you have the volume turned up - my first encounter nearly scrambled what's left of my poor ol' brain lol! ...wasn't prepared for such an experience...wonderful!!).


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 21, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Another trio of note, we used to listen to this in what passed for barracks, sadly more than 500 miles for most




Ah, cf...you too know just what I like...and here's one of my all time favourites of theirs...just for you...(and anyone else who also appreciates their immense talents!). I get as much enjoyment through my system from this simply recorded number on their CD as I do from more modern, vastly more complex/cleverly(?!!) engineered material lol! ...even dear Loreena's fare!!!...(different sort of experience, of course lol!....CHEERS!...CJ

Er...how did my 'media embed' end up at the top, lol?...Oh well, c'est-la-vie!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Another one of my favorites, such a simple condition of voices, harmony, and instruments.  Nothing over done, nothing stressed.


----------



## connieflyer

Here is one you may like H,


----------



## connieflyer

Another favorite from long ago, the simplicity of the human voice when done right needs very little help at all


----------



## connieflyer

Something simple and emotional at the same time


----------



## connieflyer

Another blast from the past, in his prime


----------



## connieflyer

The lyrics to this song are right on target..   Canta libre, Canta vida, de mi madre, y mi padre,
Canta mi corazon, Para los ninos, y sus ninos, canta libre.

I got music runnin' in my head,
Makes me feel like a young bird flyin',
'Cross my mind and layin' in my bed,
Keeps me away from the thought of dyin'.
Canta libre, Canta vida, de mi madre y mi padre.

I got music runnin' in my brain,
Ev'ry song with it's own kind of meaning,
Cleanse the soul and wash away the pain,
Baptized by the song that you're singing.
Canta libre, Canta la vida,
siempre conmigo, canta libre.

Canta libre, canta la vida.

Canta mi corazon, Paralos ninos, y sus ninos, canta libre,
de mi madre, y mi padre, canta libre, canta libre.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> The lyrics to this song are right on target..   Canta libre, Canta vida, de mi madre, y mi padre,
> Canta mi corazon, Para los ninos, y sus ninos, canta libre.
> 
> I got music runnin' in my head,
> ...



I don't speak Spanish, but this is what google said:

Sing my heart, For the children, and their children, sing freely,
Of my mother, and my father, sing free, sing free.

I can't sing either, but I play music all the time.....And I never had as much enjoyment of the music as I have now thanks to all the advice and opinions and knowledge of all my friends on Head-Fi.


----------



## pctazhp

Last night I saw The Hitman's Bodyguard at the largest non-Imax theater in Arizona with a spectacular Dolby sound system. Great movie by the way. It was a good demonstration of what is possible with solid state electronics. But when I got home and cranked up Euforia I was once again reminded why I love my OTL based system.


----------



## pctazhp

I’ll never buy another tube until I do. The prices for EL12spez (I already own a pair of Telefunken) have skyrocked on Ebay. The last pair I bought for $150 is now gone. But yesterday I found a pair of NOS Tesla EL12spez made in Czechoslovakia in the 1970s for $68. They were described as specialty audio tubes used in power amplifiers for cinemas and similar applications. How could I have possibly resisted????

I’ll be interested to see how they compare to my Telefunken pair. My EL11/EL12spez combo remains my unmatched, unchallenged Holy Grail for Euforia.


----------



## Tunkejazz

pctazhp said:


> I’ll never buy another tube until I do. The prices for EL12spez (I already own a pair of Telefunken) have skyrocked on Ebay. The last pair I bought for $150 is now gone. But yesterday I found a pair of NOS Tesla EL12spez made in Czechoslovakia in the 1970s for $68. They were described as specialty audio tubes used in power amplifiers for cinemas and similar applications. How could I have possibly resisted????
> 
> I’ll be interested to see how they compare to my Telefunken pair. My EL11/EL12spez combo remains my unmatched, unchallenged Holy Grail for Euforia.


----------



## roxrite

Did somebody try the euforia with planars? 
I personally want to get one for the he 1000 v2 but since the euforia is an Otl amp im. Kinda hesitant


----------



## pctazhp

roxrite said:


> Did somebody try the euforia with planars?
> I personally want to get one for the he 1000 v2 but since the euforia is an Otl amp im. Kinda hesitant



Try asking on this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-tube-amps.854783/


----------



## connieflyer

Agreed, many more Feliks users there. Elise was previous model, and quite similar


----------



## pctazhp (Aug 26, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> Agreed, many more Feliks users there. Elise was previous model, and quite similar



I probably just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning and am in a cantankerous mood , but need to clarify I didn't recommend that thread because there are many more FA users there.(which I don't agree there are)  I recommended it because there are more planar headphone users there. Well, at least I was able to decide which side of the bed to get up from


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> I’ll never buy another tube until I do. The prices for EL12spez (I already own a pair of Telefunken) have skyrocked on Ebay. The last pair I bought for $150 is now gone. But yesterday I found a pair of NOS Tesla EL12spez made in Czechoslovakia in the 1970s for $68. They were described as specialty audio tubes used in power amplifiers for cinemas and similar applications. How could I have possibly resisted????
> 
> I’ll be interested to see how they compare to my Telefunken pair. My EL11/EL12spez combo remains my unmatched, unchallenged Holy Grail for Euforia.



I'll be interested too, pct...I'm quite sure there won't be much difference compared to the TFKs....(but prove me wrong!! )... and at that sort of price, an absolute STEAL lol...well done!!

For me also, nothing can match this combo...(for about the 100th time!!  ). And as all my new gear has continued to burn in, they just kept on delivering more and more...still can't believe it lol!! 
But as usual, different gear/ears/personal preferences can bring quite different results...the latter two really brought home to me at the recent CanJam London event...viz. the rather surprised look on one of the Feliks brother's face when I didn't really like how the Espressivo sounded, compared to my Euforia! Admittedly, the treble was really sweet and extended, but mids and bass were simply nowhere near the same...the 'body' just wasn't there...*for me! * And a visitor also preferred the Elise over Euforia...to him, the 'lighter' presentation was more his own cup of tea lol. So nothing is set in stone, of course...but aren't we all lucky to have such a choice of well built, reasonably priced amps from F-A?...long may they continue to push the boundaries in this field! ...


----------



## connieflyer

Amen to that!


----------



## myphone (Aug 28, 2017)

Set up a desktop speaker system, using Euforia as pre-amp. Get*Set*Go SET amp, 6B4G tubes, 3 watts. Audience Clairgradient  1+1 full range speakers. Outstanding near-field listening. How does Euforia sound as pre-amp? Individual 6SN7 sound signature is more prominent than headphone out. Don't how if pre-amp out goes through 6AS7. Emailed Lukasz, waiting for his reply.


----------



## angpsi

myphone said:


> Set up a desktop speaker system, using Euforia as pre-amp. Get*Set*Go SET amp, 6B4G tubes, 3 watts. Audience Clairgradient  1+1 full range speakers. Outstanding near-field listening. How does Euforia sound as pre-amp? Individual 6SN7 sound signature is more prominent than headphone out. Don't how if pre-amp out goes through 6AS7. Emailed Lukasz, waiting for his reply.


Interested to hear the answer myself. I couldn't believe what my Elise could do with the lowly Tivoli Model Two I have on my desk!


----------



## mordy

angpsi said:


> Interested to hear the answer myself. I couldn't believe what my Elise could do with the lowly Tivoli Model Two I have on my desk!


Hi angpsi,

I used to have a Tivoli radio (and in the stone age I visited the Tivoli amusement park in Copenhagen, Denmark - it was across the street from the central railroad station).
Instead of looking for an esoteric British expensive desk system, how about an Audioengine A2+ speaker? They get good reviews and are reasonably priced and self powered as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-...&sr=8-4&keywords=audioengine+desktop+speakers


----------



## angpsi

mordy said:


> Hi angpsi,
> 
> I used to have a Tivoli radio (and in the stone age I visited the Tivoli amusement park in Copenhagen, Denmark - it was across the street from the central railroad station).
> Instead of looking for an esoteric British expensive desk system, how about an Audioengine A2+ speaker? They get good reviews and are reasonably priced and self powered as well.
> ...


Read about them a ton, and they've been on my radar for long. I'm only afraid they might be a fad. There have been people mentioning that the A2 are very hyped.
On the other hand, I did buy a set of Audioengine stands to place my Tivoli system on, so—in a sense—I'm half way there!


----------



## myphone

Reply from Lukasz: when Euforia is used as pre-amp, headphone should be unplugged; Pre-amp out signal goes through all tubes, including 6AS7 output tubes.


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 2, 2017)

myphone said:


> Reply from Lukasz: when Euforia is used as pre-amp, headphone should be unplugged; Pre-amp out signal goes through all tubes, including 6AS7 output tubes.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes indeed, and another reply from Lukasz said that 6.5 amps is "about" the maximum recommended for Euforia.  Same as Elise, so we have to assume both amps share the same transformer, or, if different, of equal power.  Frankly, I expected a somewhat bigger trafo in the Euforia, for me, a basic upgrade in this premium model.  Not that you need more power, but in my experience, an oversized power supply will simply deliver better sound. And peace of mind.  With 5 amps for the powers, you have barely 1.5 amps for the drivers.  And the trafo gets quite hot with 6080s like the Mullards...known for running really hot.
> Anyway, myEuforia # 27, with a few hours and obviously not fully "burned in" is like a wild horse:  it hits hard in the bass, is fast, dynamic and revealing, the highs soar so much and there is maybe a bit of "tube sound". This thing is all about resolution, and just a preliminary thought: if you get this kind of bass from a tube preamp, then you must have done your homework very well.  If anything, I found the Euforia demanding, powerful, capable of much more, and I really like this from any audio component.  This is not the kind of amp that "sounds good" and you are happy with.  This one is not that easy...will surprise me any day....


----------



## pctazhp

@Johnnysound  Glad you are liking Euforia. I found your description of it being more than sounding good interesting.

I agree an adequate power supply is critical for an amp. I think Euforia transformer is about the same size as Elise - the Euforia case is a little bigger for circulation. But as I understand there is a difference in the brand of transformers between the two amps.

I don't think the 6.5 amps limit you cited has much to do with the power of the amp. That is the limit for cathode heating circuits. As I understand it, that limits the type of tubes that can be used in Euforia, but is not really related to the amp's power. In fact, tube combinations can be used which exceed 6.5 amp draw from the transformer's heater outputs, but while the transformer will supply the excess draw it can overheat or even fail. At least all this is my uneducated understanding.


----------



## myphone

I have been using 12 volt external heater power supply for 12SX7 driver tubes recently. 

Also bought an external 6 volt 10 amp heater power supply, I was planning to use 6336 power tubes. Have not tried yet. A bit concerned about 6336 tube reliability. 

May try out later in DV 336 first. In case something goes wrong, it would not be a big lost.


----------



## Tunkejazz

myphone said:


> I have been using 12 volt external heater power supply for 12SX7 driver tubes recently.
> 
> Also bought an external 6 volt 10 amp heater power supply, I was planning to use 6336 power tubes. Have not tried yet. A bit concerned about 6336 tube reliability.
> 
> May try out later in DV 336 first. In case something goes wrong, it would not be a big lost.




Interesting. Where did you source your 12V adapter (+power supply?)


----------



## myphone

Tunkejazz, from eBay.


----------



## Tunkejazz

myphone said:


> Tunkejazz, from eBay.


I could imagine. I just could not find it, only got power adapters when I looked for it.


----------



## pctazhp

Tunkejazz said:


> I could imagine. I just could not find it, only got power adapters when I looked for it.



It's always been difficult to get specific information on these external supplies. You certainly need an adapter wired properly. It looks like the one that used to be offered by xulingmrs on Ebay (properly wired for cathode supply in form of 6SN7 socket saver) may be no longer available, but you may want to contact her directly.

As far as the power source, I think AC is fine. In fact I think that is how the FA cathodes are heated. But need 6V or 12V depending on which tubes you will be using. And sufficient current rating. Don't worry if it is too much as the tubes will only draw the current they need. This is DC low voltage output but it should work for 12 V tubes: https://smile.amazon.com/SingPad-Wa...1504364441&sr=8-2&keywords=low+voltage+supply

Maybe someone else has specific recommendations. I understand it can be frustrating when you are looking for specific guidance. .


----------



## Oskari

_Kaiken sulle antaisin_


----------



## myphone

The special 6SN7 adapter with pins 7-8 heater leads are still available on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...pc+Octal+Special+saver+for+6SN7+6BL7&_sacat=0


----------



## myphone

Tunkejazz said:


> I could imagine. I just could not find it, only got power adapters when I looked for it.



Search "filament transformer" 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...ament.TRS0&_nkw=filament+transformer&_sacat=0


----------



## myphone

Installed 6336B tube in DV336 with external heater power supply . It works fine. 

May try out in Euforia sometime down the road.

one 6336B and one 6SN7 do draw 5.5 amps heater current.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Installed 6336B tube in DV336 with external heater power supply . It works fine.
> 
> May try out in Euforia sometime down the road.
> 
> one 6336B and one 6SN7 do draw 5.5 amps heater current.


Hi mp,

Looks interesting - I always wanted to try the 6S33S power tube:





Only 3.3A

From my old LD days I remember that that the start up current can be up to three times higher than the tube current draw, and the external power source for a 6336 tube has to be able to handle 15A.

The 6336 is supposed to be a dual 6080 tube.


----------



## myphone (Sep 3, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi mp,
> 
> Looks interesting - I always wanted to try the 6S33S power tube:
> 
> ...



Mordy, thank you for the startup surge current info. I did notice the amp scale went beyond 10 amp for a second or so when I turned on heater power.

I will use this power supply for one tube only. Will wait to try out Euforia until I get another external power supply.

BTW, 6S33S looks really cool.


----------



## Johnnysound

Custom black adaptors...4 coats of flat enamel. I didn't like those white things !!


----------



## Johnnysound

Currently allowing the NOS EL tubes some "burning time".  Beautiful sounding tubes, with a delicate, refined, extended, very special sound.  Great spatial qualities, also (with Euforia as preamp).  Couldn't get rid of hum with the EL12 spezials as powers, will try the ferrite trick.  But they are terrific drivers, with no hum at all. A bit different from EL11s, maybe the more relaxed tube in this position, being the EL12sp a tad more energetic...just initial impressions.

In a totally different setup, I am absolutely impressed with the Russian 6N1P-E, triple mica black anode fom 63', regarded as the "holy grail" in the thread about 6922/E88CC tubes, used as drivers in quite a few tube amps.  By chance, found a pair of those very rare tubes, NOS, for about $40, got the proper adaptor and paired them with Mullards 6080...fantastic !! A sweet, fully organic sounding tube with thunderous dynamics, astounding bass, a real discovery. Researching a little, this tube was made to be 100% compatible electrically with 6NS7s, so I assume the Euforia is giving the perfect bias...it must be so..


----------



## pctazhp

Johnnysound said:


> Couldn't get rid of hum with the EL12 spezials as powers, will try the ferrite trick.



The ferrite choke helped me with EL12spez as powers. But I also had to fiddle some with headphone cable placement. Only took me a few minutes and once I found the right position coming out of Euforia I haven't had a hum problem since.


----------



## Johnnysound

pctazhp said:


> The ferrite choke helped me with EL12spez as powers. But I also had to fiddle some with headphone cable placement. Only took me a few minutes and once I found the right position coming out of Euforia I haven't had a hum problem since.



Hi Pct...and with NO headphone cable at all ?
I have no HP cable to fiddle with.  But certainly will have to find the right position for the antennas...sorry, cables.


----------



## pctazhp

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Pct...and with NO headphone cable at all ?
> I have no HP cable to fiddle with.  But certainly will have to find the right position for the antennas...sorry, cables.



Sorry. I use Euforia strictly for headphone, so I can't be much help. Good luck. We are pioneers with our OTL amp and crazy tubes, so nothing comes easy


----------



## connieflyer

I have not had a lot of experience with the El12 spez tubes. I tried them with headphones and were great.  Tried using as pre amp out, and had massive hum problem.  It was only on one tube, replaced it with el12n and hum was gone, sent bad tube back, so long term do not know.


----------



## pctazhp

Actually no one should ever take advice from me. About an hour ago I dropped my BIG wireless mouse on the floor right below my desk chair. The floor ate it. It is gone. Nowhere to be found. Had to go to Best Buy to buy a new mouse (((((

BTW. EL11/EL12spez has just gotten better and better. The SQ my system is pumping out is unlike anything I have heard since I first got into highend phones about 2 year ago. Organic, natural, relaxed, dynamic, airy, precise, Long Term Fatigue Factor = Zero. I know this sounds OTT, but it is scary how good it is. It is not euphonic. It won't compensate for poor recordings. But with most recordings it is pure magic.


----------



## Johnnysound

And BTW, also tried the Russian 6N6P as drivers, have a pair since these happen to be the standard powers in the LDIII.  Great sounding tubes, similar to the (smaller) 6N1P-E.  And dirt cheap. Compatible with the E88CC/6SN7 adaptor, but 0.750 amps each, at the very limit of the Euforia with standard powers, so I was a little worried.  Not just because of the amp consumption, these are powerful double triodes not tried previously in this amp, as far as I know, so I didn't want to fry my new amp so soon...what do you think Mordy ?


----------



## Johnnysound

The 3 mm ferrites worked very well.  Zero hum, no fiddling at all. Used some conductive copper tape on the cables.  The pairing of TFK EL11s and Tesla EL12sp is sounding quite good. The loud hum is gone,  so is the first time I am able to hear the Teslas in its "proper" role as powers. Nice, fast, nimble bass and an airy, refined sound. Not as deep bass as 5998s maybe,  but very likable on its own.  These are NOS tubes, so I think they need some 20 hours or so... My black adaptors contribute to the sound, I'm sure (lol)


----------



## pctazhp

@Johnnysound Glad EL11/EL12spez combo is working out for you. Your handiwork on the adapters is indeed impressive.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2017)

Hi guys, I wonder if everyone around here knows me, after being away from this thread awhile? Turns out I was auto-unsubscribed to this thread with the update of Head-Fi earlier this year.

Well my E*UFO*ria *technology *amp is in storage while I'm still in Asia, but am taking up a recent combo recommendation anyway to save for when I get back. I've already ordered the RCA 6AS7G tubes, shown below. Does this appear to be the same construction that some of you were raving about?





Next about the 6N8S tubes. I have a bit of info. to impart that may / not have been known already. According to a knowledgeable tube seller, the Foton "ribber anode" AKA ribber 'plate' version from the 50's are close to the best sounding version at a reasonable price, however really the Melz metal base ('holed anode' type if I understand correctly) are really the king of the hill, just much more expensive. The proceeding was rewording of the sellers words so may not be a 100% sound summary. And he bases this off a customer who bought all 6N8S types on a different amp, and didn't define in what ways the Melz was 'better' than the Foton. So I'm waiting until @mordy receives his second pair so he can compare a few versions on the Euforia amp.

In the meantime, has anyone here tried more than one 6N8S version on the Euforia, and which suits you best?


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,

The RCA are the same ones I have - I believe that they are all basically the same. They stayed in production a long time and came under several rebranded names.
Presently enjoying the GEC 6080 - wonder if I am going to like them better than the GEC 6AS7? Will let them burn in and then compare.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> The RCA are the same ones I have - I believe that they are all basically the same. They stayed in production a long time and came under several rebranded names.
> Presently enjoying the GEC 6080 - wonder if I am going to like them better than the GEC 6AS7? Will let them burn in and then compare.


I have a pair of GEC 6080 but no GEC 6AS7 i would venture to say that the 6080 will be warmer sounding than the GEC 6AS7. If i remember my 6080'S are warmer sounding than my 5998 maybe the reason why the 5998 are on my amp and not the 6080's. i like a sound that's not to warm sounding


----------



## Johnnysound

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> The RCA are the same ones I have - I believe that they are all basically the same. They stayed in production a long time and came under several rebranded names.
> Presently enjoying the GEC 6080 - wonder if I am going to like them better than the GEC 6AS7? Will let them burn in and then compare.



Mordy, please read my post # 3879 above...


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 6, 2017)

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, I wonder if everyone around here knows me, after being away from this thread awhile? Turns out I was auto-unsubscribed to this thread with the update of Head-Fi earlier this year.
> 
> Well my E*UFO*ria *technology *amp is in storage while I'm still in Asia, but am taking up a recent combo recommendation anyway to save for when I get back. I've already ordered the RCA 6AS7G tubes, shown below. Does this appear to be the same construction that some of you were raving about?


Hi DL, The RCA 6AS7Gs will not dissapoint you if you are after some truly "classic"  tube sound:  warm, lush, with pronounced bass and great soundstage... I allways enjoy  the sound of the RCAs. I call them  "jazz tubes".   Fifties  tubes (or earlier as my 49´and 46´vintage) and probably up to mid sixties are supossed to sound best...the RCA construction is unique with that black "skirt" below the lower mica, so you can spot rebranded RCAs everywhere...


----------



## pctazhp

@Johnnysound   When you quote someone, if you start your response after the last ] your response won't show up in their quote


----------



## Johnnysound

pctazhp said:


> @Johnnysound   When you quote someone, if you start your response after the last ] your response won't show up in their quote



You are right Pzt...thanks !


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2017)

MIKELAP said:


> I have a pair of GEC 6080 but no GEC 6AS7 i would venture to say that the 6080 will be warmer sounding than the GEC 6AS7. If i remember my 6080'S are warmer sounding than my 5998 maybe the reason why the 5998 are on my amp and not the 6080's. i like a sound that's not to warm sounding


 
Well I suppose this can be a bit of good news for you MikeLap - my extensive testing, owning both GEC 6080 and (formerly two, now one pair) of GEC 6AS7G has shown that at least on the Elise and Euforia, the opposite is true: it's the GEC 6080 that is much brighter / sweeter / dynamic, while the 6as7G is more laid back, lush with silky mids, weightier bass and easygoing treble. But to me the strength of the GEC 6AS7G or A1834 is the amazing realism, spot-on tonality and just right soundstage.

So I guess nobody around here has any experience or at least knows about different sounds of the 6N8S? But I guess that's all subjective anyway if tried on a different amp.


----------



## aqsw

Looking for Mordy,

Had a few too many pops tonight and bought some tubes. Did I do OK or what?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RCA-JAN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 7, 2017)

Hey guys, after doing a little more homework I noticed there are two types of Melz 6N8S. The "metal base" version with slotted holes in the plates, and the "metal base holed plates" version with round holes. The former is going for about $60 / pair and the metal base holed plates (holed 'anodes') version are at least $160 / pair, which are said to be the best of the best.

The so-called mid-tier Melz





The best regarded metal base holed anode / plate Melz:





_"Those MELZ tubes with holes in the plates were made for the USSR Military- never sold to the public -used for nuclear power plant control systems, and used on the Russian Space Station, and used for guidance systems on missiles. They are considered to be the highest quality tube ever made in the USSR, they were expensive to build, and were only used for special military purposes. 

They sell for about $175 for a pair. Often called a 1578 MELZ."
_
(quoted from @ozaudios, feel free to jump in here)

taken from eBay:





for contrast, here's the design of the Foton 'ribber plates' 6H8C (6N8S), which are generally regarded as performing just below the Melz





IIRC, the Melz are also the same tubes that are regarded as the best of 6SN7 which are also of the same class, and that's interesting to see at least some affordable pairs of the 2nd best Melz. I also read from a completely separate thread that the Melz are said to pair well with 6as7G tubes, which confirms a recent pairing here, with the Fotons. That would be cool to see some comparisons between the Foton and Melz versions on the Euforia


----------



## pctazhp

Impressive research @DecentLevi However, I guess the proof is in the pudding, or in the listening in one's own system. I have a pair of Fotons - not sure what particular flavor. They are good, especially for the price. But I wouldn't rate them close to the top of different drivers I own.

As I recall, when FA first introduced Elise they offered some kind of Meltz drivers as an upgrade. May be wrong about that.

I've retired from tube rolling. But good to see it at least remains on life support on this thread. Brings back memories of the early glory days ))))


----------



## mordy (Sep 7, 2017)

aqsw said:


> Looking for Mordy,
> 
> Had a few too many pops tonight and bought some tubes. Did I do OK or what?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RCA-JAN-6AS7G-MATCHING-PAIR-NIB/192282772734?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Hi aqsw,

Part of my enjoyment in tube rolling is to try to find bargains. How do you know what the market value is and how much to pay for an item?

There is an easy method for this: Type in what you want to buy, bring up the eBay screen, set the pop down menu to lowest price + shipping, and click. Now you get the current offerings in increasing price order.

THEN, go to the very left column on the screen and scroll down to SOLD ITEMS and click on the check box. You will now see what these items sold for during the past months. The actual selling prices are shown in green.

So here is the answer to your question:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Vintage-Electronics/183077/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=rca 6as7g&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684


----------



## Joeybgood

If anyone knows someone in search of a Euforia, there is one in barely used condition(June '17) for sale on USAM for $1200. Mine is incoming from Poland or I would have def jumped on this. Cheers!


----------



## connieflyer

With all this talk recently about RCA 6AS7's  decided to pull out the pair I bought, only used about an hour, had GEC 6080's inbound.  This time I paired the RCA 6AS7's with a pair of RCA 6SN7 GT from 1948 and I must say this is a really great combination.  Don't know why I had never tried it before. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-RCA-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 price of $20 was a good deal to say the least. I see by my account, I bought them just before the GEC's came in so now I know why I did not pursue these before.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> With all this talk recently about RCA 6AS7's  decided to pull out the pair I bought, only used about an hour, had GEC 6080's inbound.  This time I paired the RCA 6AS7's with a pair of RCA 6SN7 GT from 1948 and I must say this is a really great combination.


That's another set of tubes I should try (and I should have them if I can find them). I have no problem believing that they can be very enjoyable. I'm such a failure as a tube roller. I'm sooooo slow at it.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> With all this talk recently about RCA 6AS7's  decided to pull out the pair I bought, only used about an hour, had GEC 6080's inbound.  This time I paired the RCA 6AS7's with a pair of RCA 6SN7 GT from 1948 and I must say this is a really great combination.  Don't know why I had never tried it before. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-RCA-6AS7G-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tubes-NIB-Tested/282540045559?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 price of $20 was a good deal to say the least. I see by my account, I bought them just before the GEC's came in so now I know why I did not pursue these before.



Must be nice to have an unlimited supply of tubes


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> That's another set of tubes I should try (and I should have them if I can find them). I have no problem believing that they can be very enjoyable. I'm such a failure as a tube roller. I'm sooooo slow at it.


Hi Oskari,

I have gathered from several posts that some forum members have tubes that they have trouble finding. Perhaps presenting my 
SSSSSSFSB (*S*tackable *S*pace *S*aving *S*torage *S*olution *S*ystem *F*rom *S*hoe *B*oxes) [or *S* system in short] will prove helpful in organizing them little glass thingies. These boxes can safely be stored 5-6 high - shown is only a small part of my *S* system:




This system is easily expandable and usually very economical (read free). Individual tubes are stored in their boxes or wrapped in bubble wrap with a rubber band around them together with a piece of paper with the vital tube information.


----------



## connieflyer

I am using two three drawer plastic  containers. Cheap and easy. They come in three drawer sets.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> This system is easily expandable and usually very economical (read free). Individual tubes are stored in their boxes or wrapped in bubble wrap with a rubber band around them together with a piece of paper with the vital tube information.


I do agree. I have tubes in boxes within boxes within boxes possibly within boxes. Those labels are extremely essential!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hmm, I like CF's plastic drawer solution a lot better than the *S* (shoebox concept). Don't do it my old way, which was with all the glass gems strewn out bare across a big desk - they often clank against each other and get scratched or sun-damage, or can fall off.


----------



## DecentLevi

aqsw said:


> Looking for Mordy,
> 
> Had a few too many pops tonight and bought some tubes. Did I do OK or what?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RCA-JAN-6AS7G-MATCHING-PAIR-NIB/192282772734?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Looks like you and @connieflyer both got a good find, because I just discovered from the 6AS7G thread that there's supposedly a difference between RCA 6AS7G grey vs. black plate version, with the black version coming on top (though mine is grey version). More here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-261#post-13708270


----------



## MIKELAP

DecentLevi said:


> Looks like you and @connieflyer both got a good find, because I just discovered from the 6AS7G thread that there's supposedly a difference between RCA 6AS7G grey vs. black plate version, with the black version coming on top (though mine is grey version). More here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-261#post-13708270


Hey guys you spênd hundreds on tubes why not spend a few extra bucks  on a proper tube caddy you open it up and your tubes are right there and there are stored safely in there boxes .


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Looks like you and @connieflyer both got a good find, because I just discovered from the 6AS7G thread that there's supposedly a difference between RCA 6AS7G grey vs. black plate version, with the black version coming on top (though mine is grey version). More here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-261#post-13708270


Hi DL,

The 1953 pair I am using has black plates, but I think I have grey plates also. Would have to compare them to see if they sound different to me....
I have various tubes with black, grey, silver and bronze plates and my basic premise is that the color doesn't make a difference.


----------



## mordy

MIKELAP said:


> Hey guys you spênd hundreds on tubes why not spend a few extra bucks  on a proper tube caddy you open it up and your tubes are right there and there are stored safely in there boxes .


Hi Mikelap,

Looks beautiful, but most of my tubes did not come with boxes.....And when they came with boxes, the boxes were so old and fragile that they disintegrated just by looking at them. (OK - I know I could buy replacement boxes....)


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 7, 2017)

Mike I resent that, we don't spend hundreds on tubes, we spend thousands  (some of us)... in hindsight I could have bought an even better amp with all that tube money.

YES @mordy that would be super interesting: when you have time please do a comparison between grey vs. black plate RCA 6AS7G's, as long as they're the same construction besides color. I would like to confirm the theory on the 6as7G thread whether or not color makes a difference, in the Euforia anyway. But use the same songs, headphones etc.


----------



## connieflyer

Because this is only temporary


----------



## MIKELAP

DecentLevi said:


> Mike I resent that, we don't spend hundreds on tubes, we spend thousands  (some of us)... in hindsight I could have bought an even better amp with all that tube money.
> 
> YES @mordy that would be super interesting: when you have time please do a comparison between grey vs. black plate RCA 6AS7G's, as long as they're the same construction besides color. I would like to confirm the theory on the 6as7G thread whether or not color makes a difference, in the Euforia anyway. But use the same songs, headphones etc.


Of course I knew that but I didn't want to remind you guys, because I to am in the same boat lol


----------



## pctazhp

DecentLevi said:


> in hindsight I could have bought an even better amp with all that tube money.



Wash your mouth out with soap DL. There is no better amp


----------



## myphone (Sep 8, 2017)

More expensive amps would come with even more "extra expenses". WE 300B. Exotic 2A3 and output transformer upgrade etc.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> More expensive amps would come with even more "extra expenses". WE 300B. Exotic 2A3 and output transformer upgrade etc.


For whatever this comment is worth:
Feliks Audio makes 2A3 amps. Somebody asked them if such an amp would sound better than the Elise and the answer was no - just more power to drive speakers.


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> The 3 mm ferrites worked very well.  Zero hum, no fiddling at all. Used some conductive copper tape on the cables.  The pairing of TFK EL11s and Tesla EL12sp is sounding quite good. The loud hum is gone,  so is the first time I am able to hear the Teslas in its "proper" role as powers. Nice, fast, nimble bass and an airy, refined sound. Not as deep bass as 5998s maybe,  but very likable on its own.  These are NOS tubes, so I think they need some 20 hours or so... My black adaptors contribute to the sound, I'm sure (lol)



Hi J...glad you're liking your Euforia...you did indeed make the right choice lol!! ...And glad you managed to tame that Spez hum. Your setup looks really cool lol! 

Re. the 11/12 Spez combo, I personally have found that when using them straight after stock config'n tubes, it takes a good while for the amp to 'readjust' to them, before burn-in even starts to improve things! And - just like the EL3N - they will continue to improve WELL beyond 20 hours...think more like 100+ hrs..._at least!!!_...CHEERS!...




pctazhp said:


> Impressive research @DecentLevi However, I guess the proof is in the pudding, or in the listening in one's own system. I have a pair of Fotons - not sure what particular flavor. They are good, especially for the price. But I wouldn't rate them close to the top of different drivers I own.
> 
> As I recall, when FA first introduced Elise they offered some kind of Meltz drivers as an upgrade. May be wrong about that.
> 
> I've retired from tube rolling. But good to see it at least remains on life support on this thread. Brings back memories of the early glory days ))))



Yes indeed pct...Lukasz did try the Melz, but they proved too unreliable alas...which is what I personally found also, in the early Elise days...(they were DL's 'second best' version though, and not the 'tops' lol!).



mordy said:


> For whatever this comment is worth:
> Feliks Audio makes 2A3 amps. Somebody asked them if such an amp would sound better than the Elise and the answer was no - just more power to drive speakers.



Hmmm, my dear mordy...your comment could actually prove more prophetic than you realise lol! ... I do believe it comes down to just how the circuit is configured...go figure! ...


----------



## pctazhp

The past 2 days I was running Sylvania 6SN7-WGT/GEC6AS7G. Today I’m back to EL11/EL12spez. Two things in particular stand out for me. First, the degree of heat generated by Syl/GEC is really quite uncomfortable and annoying. That is not the case with EL11/EL12 spez.

Second, the SQ of EL11/EL12spez is significant better than the former. The ELs are simply highly revealing. By “revealing” I don’t necessarily mean “detailed” but there certainly is a lot of detail for my taste. I mean something more encompassing. It is revealing of all the qualities of music that touches my emotions and makes music so enjoyable for me. That includes tonality, nuance, effortless quality, spaciousness, focused solid imagery, bass impact, midrange clarity and organic quality, high end sweetness and sparkle – and yes, detail. It is also quite dynamic with a lot of punch. With my HD800S I don’t feel Euforia/EL11/EL12spez is in any way under-powered. To me, it is “right” and provides me a wonderful “you (me) are there” experience.


----------



## Oskari

_Menta e rosmarino_


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## hypnos1 (Sep 8, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> The past 2 days I was running Sylvania 6SN7-WGT/GEC6AS7G. Today I’m back to EL11/EL12spez. Two things in particular stand out for me. First, the degree of heat generated by Syl/GEC is really quite uncomfortable and annoying. That is not the case with EL11/EL12 spez.
> 
> Second, the SQ of EL11/EL12spez is significant better than the former. The ELs are simply highly revealing. By “revealing” I don’t necessarily mean “detailed” but there certainly is a lot of detail for my taste. I mean something more encompassing. It is revealing of all the qualities of music that touches my emotions and makes music so enjoyable for me. That includes tonality, nuance, effortless quality, spaciousness, focused solid imagery, bass impact, midrange clarity and organic quality, high end sweetness and sparkle – and yes, detail. It is also quite dynamic with a lot of punch. With my HD800S I don’t feel Euforia/EL11/EL12spez is in any way under-powered. To me, it is “right” and provides me a wonderful “you (me) are there” experience.



I agree on all points, pct. And I must admit that it took me quite a while to actually_ fully_ appreciate all these qualities. But they did become more obvious/pronounced as I upgraded the rest of my system...to the point where I can now even notice the difference between the 'pure' silver in my £300+ ArtisanSilver interconnects, and an amazing adapted HP cable using the wondrous 'single crystal' UPOCC silver wire!...(that uses only 8x 0.1mm wires per channel...can't wait to see what my own cable will bring to the table, using 4x 0.8mm UPOCC silvers, plus 2x UPOCC coppers - for good measure lol!!..._when the darned stuff finally arrives from Taiwan,and I can start making them!!!_)....CHEERS!...


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## Oskari

MIKELAP said:


> Hey guys you spênd hundreds on tubes why not spend a few extra bucks on a proper tube caddy you open it up and your tubes are right there and there are stored safely in there boxes.


We can't all be pros such as you.


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## Oskari

_Naked Eye_


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## MIKELAP (Sep 8, 2017)

Oskari said:


> We can't all be pros such as you.





Oskari said:


> We can't all be pros such as you.


But you could try, you might actually  surprise yourself. lol


Oskari said:


> We can't all be pros such as you.


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## Johnnysound (Sep 9, 2017)

[


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## DecentLevi (Sep 12, 2017)

RE a previous comment, I agree it would seem there must be more to why two different pairs of tubes differing only by color would sound different, maybe other untold variances from different mfg. dates. Does @mordy or anyone still have both black and silver plate RCA 6AS7G's to compare for us? Also let us know when you have your 2nd pair of Foton 6N8S's to compare, thanks.

I've caved and picked up a really good deal on a pair of 6N8S drivers, but I went with the Melz silver base (2nd best reputed version with oval rather than larger round holes in plate) which has almost the same construction as Fotos's but was reviewed better than the Foton's - though of course tube results could be very system dependent. Though I won't be in town to try mine until next year.


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## Dvdlucena

Hello friends. Just searched in the tread and could not find any solid comparison between EUFORIA vs other references tube amps, like DNA stratus, zana deux, etc
Can someone chime in? Any opinion would be much appreciated


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## pctazhp

Dvdlucena said:


> Hello friends. Just searched in the tread and could not find any solid comparison between EUFORIA vs other references tube amps, like DNA stratus, zana deux, etc
> Can someone chime in? Any opinion would be much appreciated



I haven’t heard any of the amps you mention or other amps more expensive amps. I plan to attend a local meet here in Arizona on October 21where I think those amps and other higher dollar amps will be present, but I don’t place much stock in comparisons made at meets.

Unfortunately, I don’t think many Euforia owners have heard the amps you are talking about. Personally, I think most Euforia owners bought either because of previous experience with Elise or because of the many compelling reports of Elise and Euforia owners on HeadFi. I think they were convinced that Euforia offers a lot of value for its price point, but they also probably understood they needed to factor in additional expense that would probably result from tube rolling. Euforia and Elise are fairly unique because of the great variety of tubes that can be used in these amps. That also makes it difficult to compare the FA amps with other amps, because tube combos used in the FA amps can make quite a difference.

In some respects I liken the FA amps to Schiit products which offer true high end performance at a relatively reasonable cost. Unfortunately, FA amps can’t be auditioned with a return privilege.

I don’t have a lot of experience with high end headphone systems. But I was a speaker-based, vinyl sourced audiophile for 35 years during which I owned or heard some of the highest regarded systems of the day. And I can say without qualification that with my current system I have never enjoyed listening to electronically reproduced music more.

Good luck if you decide to take the plunge.  Owning an FA amp kind of becomes a way of life. Finding the right tube combos and related gear is an exciting and rewarding experience.


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## Dvdlucena (Sep 16, 2017)

Thank you very much


pctazhp said:


> I haven’t heard any of the amps you mention or other amps more expensive amps. I plan to attend a local meet here in Arizona on October 21where I think those amps and other higher dollar amps will be present, but I don’t place much stock in comparisons made at meets.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don’t think many Euforia owners have heard the amps you are talking about. Personally, I think most Euforia owners bought either because of previous experience with Elise or because of the many compelling reports of Elise and Euforia owners on HeadFi. I think they were convinced that Euforia offers a lot of value for its price point, but they also probably understood they needed to factor in additional expense that would probably result from tube rolling. Euforia and Elise are fairly unique because of the great variety of tubes that can be used in these amps. That also makes it difficult to compare the FA amps with other amps, because tube combos used in the FA amps can make quite a difference.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much! Liked your post cheers


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## DecentLevi (Sep 16, 2017)

Dvdlucena said:


> Hello friends. Just searched in the tread and could not find any solid comparison between EUFORIA vs other references tube amps, like DNA stratus, zana deux, etc
> Can someone chime in? Any opinion would be much appreciated



OK here's my take on your question. I will try to do this in a subjective yet critical manner so apologies in advance for anything that may make one thing sound inferior to another.

Myself being a somewhat active meet attendee and occasional organizer, I've had the chance to try most all of the 'big guys', including the Zana Deux and DNA Stratus at least 3x each in different environments. Of those the DNA stratus gets an edge, even more than the Blue Hawaii and the ZD - immediate dynamics, soundstage that lets you pinpoint objects in space, realism in spades. ZD comes close, and actually nothing seems missing at all. Exceptionally pleasing, especially the newest S version (ZD Super) with dynamics and realism that leaves nothing to the imagination. However on the ZD level, there are 3 other solid state amps that come to mind that win in one way or another, namely the  Mcintosh MAC 4100 (vitage stereo receiver / amp), GS-X MkII, and Rangarok - most of which I've compared directly. Of these SS amps, most actually one-up the ZD in some way or another, especially in bass depth or realism vs. a subtly 'tubey' sound of the ZD.

There is on the other hand one new beast of an amp - a 300B type that I won't mention here for sake of keeping things sane - one that's astronomical in terms of both price and performance. But now finally onto the main question - how does the Euforia compare to the likes of ZD and DNA Stratus? While all are tube amps, there's great difference in terms of both price/performance ratio and preferences. The former two amps are basically already tuned for exceptional sound and may not be as popular for tube rolling with more limited  tube compatibility, while the Euforia, like Elise can be considered a tube roller's paradise; with both 6AS7G and 6SN7 sockets (2 each), people like us have discovered what must be hundreds+ of possible tube combinations, enabling the experienced user to literally fine tune the sound in terms of tonality, dynamics, soundstage, etc.

To me the Euforia is 'a mile' better than any other tube amp I've tried sub-$1,500... well to be fair there is no other tube amp for this price point that performs like it. However spend 2-3x more and you will inevitebly get sound that you may very well like even more. Though I've heard sound 2-4x better than Euforia on other amps going all the way up to $15,000, I still feel satisfied when switching on the Euforia.

EDIT: though I used the same headphones on most of the top-tier amps, some of the reason they sounded better was also due to better headphones as well such as the Focal Utopia
EDIT 2: I would also put the upcoming Cavalli Liquid Tungsten amp between the ZD and the DNA Stratus


----------



## Dvdlucena

DecentLevi said:


> OK here's my take on your question. I will try to do this in a subjective yet critical manner so apologies in advance for anything that may make one thing sound inferior to another.
> 
> Myself being a somewhat active meet attendee and occasional organizer, I've had the chance to try most all of the 'big guys', including the Zana Deux and DNA Stratus at least 3x each in different environments. Of those the DNA stratus gets an edge, even more than the Blue Hawaii and the ZD - immediate dynamics, soundstage that lets you pinpoint objects in space, realism in spades. ZD comes close, and actually nothing seems missing at all. Exceptionally pleasing, especially the newest S version (ZD Super) with dynamics and realism that leaves nothing to the imagination. However on the ZD level, there are 3 other solid state amps that come to mind that win in one way or another, namely the  Mcintosh MAC 4100 (vitage stereo receiver / amp), GS-X MkII, and Rangarok - most of which I've compared directly. Of these SS amps, most actually one-up the ZD in some way or another, especially in bass depth or realism vs. a subtly 'tubey' sound of the ZD.
> 
> ...


in your time with euforia, which tubes gave you the more holografic, 3D and spacious experience?
I will be in Germany on January, and I will probably order a euforia before the trip. Cheers


----------



## DecentLevi

Well the alltime largest soundstage goes to the 6-pack EL3N - however I don't recommend it due to exhorbitant costs of tubes plus four custom adapters; but especially the sound: although it's the largest stage, it's also somewhat muddy / slow / warm and extra 'tubey'. (bassy / saturated).

For a large stage also with excellent sound otherwise, I would probably recommend either:
- Tung-Sol or Chatham 5998 + your choice of 6SN7 driver tubes (these are very diverse)
or if you don't mind special ordering some adapters, you can get even more detail and vividness with:
- EL12 Spez + Ken-Rad VT-231
or
- Valvo EL12 + Telefunken EL12

* Please consult with us for special instructions to adapt the EL12 Spez.

I'm surprised my above comparison impressions didn't steer you away, but you're making a good choice! Also burn-time of amp and tubes should be considered


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## Tunkejazz (Sep 16, 2017)

Sylvania 6sn7w + gec 6080 is a very (VERY) good combo, and you don't need adapters. Not a cheap combo though. Those Syl also work nicely with a standard pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G and then the price is not nearly as high.

That is my opinion at least!


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## Dvdlucena

Thanks you all for the help. 
I'll be reading this thread now and in the future


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## Johnnysound (Sep 17, 2017)

DecentLevi said:


> Well the alltime largest soundstage goes to the 6-pack EL3N - however I don't recommend it due to exhorbitant costs of tubes plus four custom adapters; but especially the sound: although it's the largest stage, it's also somewhat muddy / slow / warm and extra 'tubey'. (bassy / saturated).
> 
> For a large stage also with excellent sound otherwise, I would probably recommend either:
> - Tung-Sol or Chatham 5998 + your choice of 6SN7 driver tubes (these are very diverse)
> ...



Hi DL,  for us the rest of mortals, owners of Euforia who do not have (yet) the chance to hear such top class ss HP amps, your post gives us peace of mind, at least.  While sounding superb, Euforia is not an "easy" amp, to begin with...out of the box sounded excellent, but was like a wild horse,  overwhelming my headphones with an hyper resolving rendition that allmost killed me.  This is not your grandpa tube amp, thats for sure.   While it is an OTL, tubed component,  the similarities with other tube preamps stops there, in my limited experience.  Now it is obvious for me that the design goal of Feliks Audio with Euforia has been to achieve reference levels in terms of frequency extension, neutrality, dynamics, low noise by means of a truly modern design but with no concession at all to "classic" tube sound.   Do not expect a warm, laid back tube sound. Or classic tube flaws, like limited deep bass.  Euforia simply delivers deep, strong, fast,  truly enjoyable bass with ANY tube you might roll in.  It is the amp, not the tubes. Of course, different tubes, different flavors: tubes like 5998s will go even deeper than almost any other...and many other tubes will work well with this amp.

 My Euforia is less than 50 hours and is starting to "settle" a bit,  so I feel that you have to be very patient with all that "boutique" capacitors and parts.  A hundred hours, no less.   Currently I stay with the TFK EL11/Tesla EL12 spezials.  Teslas are NOS tubes, so they have to settle at the same time.  The first two or three days, I thought the combo sounded refined, elegant, but lacking a bit in the balls department. Be patient, I said to myself.  A week after, total transformation: bass tightened up to a fast and deep rendition that sounds fantastic with certain types of music that have very deep bass .. I am convinced that the auto bias circuit of the Euforia is really good, probably feeding the ELs with a near optimal value.

Regarding tube suggestions for the Euforia,  there are a lot of tube combos that will sound excellent, depending on many variables.    I use the Euforia as a preamp,  and my ss NAD amps/LSA2 speakers are quite revealing:  they sounded  warm and sweet with my heavily modded LDIII, using C3gs and Chathams 6AS7Gs or 5998s, but the same combo sounds totally different with the Euforia. Much more dynamic, not very warm, and even a bit "dry".  The Mullards 6080 sounded a bit restricted with the LDIII, but with the Euforia are different tubes, some of the best. Summing up,  I would divide the tube rolling experience with Euforia in three "families":  1.-  The default setup, with many 6SN7s, 7N7s, 6AS7Gs and 6080s to experiment with. 2.- The EL combos, with EL 11, EL12, EL12sp, EL12n, and variants, and 3.- The experimental setup, with other drivers like the C3Gs, E88CC, or even 6N6P, or 6N1P russian double triodes, paired with 5998s for example,  really surprised me...


----------



## mordy

Dvdlucena said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> 
> Thank you very much! Liked your post cheers


Hi Dvdlucena,

I would just like to chime in with all the others that enjoy the Euforia (especially pct's beautiful summation), and with DL's comment about being satisfied with the Euforia, even compared to other amps that may excel in various aspects.

The Euforia has a special quality of bringing out musical enjoyment. It has what we used to call "soul". As things go, there is always better, but at a much higher price point, but the Euforia will make you happy.


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## mordy

pctazhp said:


> I haven’t heard any of the amps you mention or other amps more expensive amps. I plan to attend a local meet here in Arizona on October 21where I think those amps and other higher dollar amps will be present, but I don’t place much stock in comparisons made at meets.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don’t think many Euforia owners have heard the amps you are talking about. Personally, I think most Euforia owners bought either because of previous experience with Elise or because of the many compelling reports of Elise and Euforia owners on HeadFi. I think they were convinced that Euforia offers a lot of value for its price point, but they also probably understood they needed to factor in additional expense that would probably result from tube rolling. Euforia and Elise are fairly unique because of the great variety of tubes that can be used in these amps. That also makes it difficult to compare the FA amps with other amps, because tube combos used in the FA amps can make quite a difference.
> 
> ...


Hi pct,

I seem to remember that you ordered the EL12 Spez made by Tesla. Can you comment on how they sound in comparison to TFK?


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## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Hi pct,
> 
> I seem to remember that you ordered the EL12 Spez made by Tesla. Can you comment on how they sound in comparison to TFK?



Mordy. I got them, but they have the EL3N type base, so I'm having to get them configured for Euforia. Will update, but it will probably be a while.


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> Mordy. I got them, but they have the EL3N type base, so I'm having to get them configured for Euforia. Will update, but it will probably be a while.



Is the pinout different than the EL3N?


----------



## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Is the pinout different than the EL3N?



I don't know, but they sure are beautiful


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## Dvdlucena

pctazhp said:


> I don't know, but they sure are beautiful


Man, almost fap myself for tube!!!


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## mordy

Dvdlucena said:


> Man, almost fap myself for tube!!!


Unfortunately the pinout is different than the EL3N/EL6 - I am not sure if there is an adapter available to buy at the present. But we could always ask Mrs Xu Ling to make one...


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## pctazhp

mordy said:


> Unfortunately the pinout is different than the EL3N/EL6 - I am not sure if there is an adapter available to buy at the present. But we could always ask Mrs Xu Ling to make one...



I've turned it over to my higher power - ie someone who knows a lot more than I do and how to deal with stuff like this ))))


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## pctazhp

Dvdlucena said:


> Man, almost fap myself for tube!!!



I had to look up meaning of "fap" Sorry I did. Not easy to get that visual out of my mind !!!!


----------



## connieflyer

pctazhp said:


> I've turned it over to my higher power - ie someone who knows a lot more than I do and how to deal with stuff like this ))))


OMG! You mean there is a higher power than thine self? blasphemy! Who would have thought that you were not the end-all!


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## Dvdlucena

pctazhp said:


> I had to look up meaning of "fap" Sorry I did. Not easy to get that visual out of my mind !!!!


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> OMG! You mean there is a higher power than thine self? blasphemy! Who would have thought that you were not the end-all!



When it comes to electronic stuff I’m the “end-all” alright. Can't even remember how many things I’ve blown up, taken apart and couldn’t get back together, or just permanently lost.


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## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


>





pctazhp said:


>



Spot the difference! Is that a 4654?


----------



## hypnos1

Dvdlucena said:


> in your time with euforia, which tubes gave you the more holografic, 3D and spacious experience?
> I will be in Germany on January, and I will probably order a euforia before the trip. Cheers



Hi Dvdlucena, and welcome to our wonderful _fraternity._..(as opposed to simply a 'club' or 'thread' lol! ).

Sorry for my tardy response, but as usual, the guys have been chipping in wonderfully with some very good advice and recommendations. I'm afraid my own input is unavoidably much more restricted these days, alas...
Hopefully, you'll be able to find the time to go back over previous posts, where you will find a great deal of even more in-depth info on most aspects of maximising performance from this wonderful amp...along with plenty of more lighthearted input!! 

Re. the subject of your post, having ploughed through a fairly wide range of configured-for tubes, I myself now listen solely via EL11s driving EL12 Spezial powers, and cannot even get myself motivated to occasionally go nostalgic and put in my previous 'Holy Grail' ECC31/GEC A1834 tubes!!... @pctazhp, @DecentLevi and @Johnnysound have given you a good impression of what these (unofficial!) tubes can deliver, and a wonderfully clear, precise, 'clean' 3D/holographic presentation is just one of this combination's amazing virtues. Again, previous posts will give you much more detail as to their qualities....But I shall repeat what I have said many times about these EL tubes...ie. the more you upgrade the rest of the system, the more they up their game.

I personally am reaching the end of what I regard as worthwhile improvements/expenditure(!!), having just upped said game by substituting my pure silver interconnects with the amazing 'UPOCC' single crystal silver and copper wires. But only by saving myself hundreds of pounds by terminating some really nice Neotech cable with my own plugs. I knew this would bring _some_ improvement, but was not prepared for the actual degree that resulted....it wasn't by any means just _subtle_ - it was clear beyond doubt, and luckily, confirmed by two fellow head-fiers at our 'mini-meet' at mine this weekend. They really helped showcase the _true_ potential of not just these tubes, but also, of course, Euforia itself and my Beyer T1s...(helped also by the Naim source and Balanced AC Mains/Filter!).

I realise some of my upgrades may be a bit prohibitive(!), but they do at least confirm Euforia's pedigree and what she is is truly capable of achieving.

For those who might be interested in seeing what I was talking about re. the interconnects, just a couple of photos...

 

The black-covered cable shows the 3-conductor version meant for XLR, each strand having 3 UPOCC silver wires. The additional red wire to the left is a UPOCC copper that I added for extra measure, and the other 2 another silver and copper for the return...as I wanted to double up everything, given the 'spare' 3rd conductor!!...(but created a pig of a job of course, and possibly not really needed lol!!).

Anyway, many hours and much cursing and swearing later, the end result actually worked (thankfully!)...and far better than I ever anticipated    :

 

However, great sound will still be got from Euforia without having to go to these extremes, and regardless of the actual tubes used.
Hopefully I have at least given a taste of what one can look forward to...if so inclined, and with a wallet (and wife/partner/canine friend) that doesn't bite back lol! ...CHEERS!...

ps. And hope you bag your own Euforia REAL soon!!!


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Spot the difference! Is that a 4654?



Hey O...you tryin' to get me to look at even MORE tubes or what, mon ami?...EL12/39/34/465X...far too many in the same sort of stable IMHO - ie. _*far too tempting lol!!!   ...
*_
Anyway...time for my supper drink...BFN!!...


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## connieflyer

The tubes have different pins, one has the traditional straight and the other tube has paddlefoot pins,


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> Spot the difference! Is that a 4654?



Good call. Yes they are. Honestly, I wasn't paying much attention when I ordered them. I think (hope) they may work the same as EL12spez if they can be adapted. The two tubes seem pretty similar. How they will sound if they can be adapted is anyone's guess.Will have to consult my higher power !!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/232433070976

http://www.radiomuseum.org//tubes/tube_4654.html

http://www.radiomuseum.org//tubes/tube_4654.html

http://www.tubedatabase.co/tubes/tesla-4654

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el12.html

Lesson to be learned. Don't order tubes just because they bear some vague resemblance to what you think you are ordering


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> The tubes have different pins, one has the traditional straight and the other tube has paddlefoot pins,



Well that is one difference. But you may be assuming I had some idea of what I was doing when I ordered them. Either I have made a pioneering discovery or have made a total fool of myself. Any guess???


----------



## pctazhp

BTW @connieflyer. Can you imagine what shows up at my front door when I order pizza delivery???


----------



## connieflyer

Hopefully a beautiful young woman that has lots of money, and wants to take you out for pizza and it's her treat.!. Of course that is only my take on it, but as far as those tubes are concerned they look great, so even if they don't work you could always just put a piece of Playdough back on top of the Transformer and stick them on there and they look really cool. That way you would have the only six to be Euforia amplifier!


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> Good call. Yes they are. Honestly, I wasn't paying much attention when I ordered them. I think (hope) they may work the same as EL12spez if they can be adapted. The two tubes seem pretty similar.


Yes...


hypnos1 said:


> Hey O...you tryin' to get me to look at even MORE tubes or what, mon ami?...EL12/39/34/465X...far too many in the same sort of stable IMHO - ie. _*far too tempting lol!!!   ...*_


Wasn't me! It was PCT.


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## Johnnysound (Sep 23, 2017)

Edited


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## DecentLevi (Sep 23, 2017)

After trying Audio Technica's entire line of both IEMs and on/over ear headphones, I've come to the stark realization that their models are very 'hit & miss'. The majority IMO seem to be fairly bright and appealing to those who like a colored sound in some way or another, often have somewhat off kilter tonality or boomy bass lacking control, depending on the model. Their ATH-M30 - M50's are set apart quite a bit, being more neutral, balanced & detailed yet still have their flaws, mainly in bass definition. This 'can is also somewhat popular with producers of a certain genre' I won't name here, who in reality only pretend to have a clue about fidelity and proper mastering techniques. I sold my M50's off 3 years ago for its' bass and some other major issues I noticed with it and have since moved up the closed-back chain several times.

May I be the first one on the Feliks Audio threads to recommend the *Sennheiser HD-380 Pro*. After 10 years, trying around 200 closed-backs (and owning at least 10), I have finally found one that performs like a miracle, and at a fraction of the cost of others! The bass extends deeper, dynamics punchier, is more detailed and soundstage is much better than my SoundMagic HP-100's (modded), even more than my recently acquired Focal Spirit Classic and more than the Senn. HD-280. They're @54 ohms so I would be mightily surprised if these beasts don't sing wonderfully with the Euforia. Here's a recent write-up with my experiences with this far underrated model:


DecentLevi said:


> Hey you found the right person to ask, though my time is a bit limited these days. Earlier I had demo units of all three variants of the Fostex TH-X00 (Ebony, Purpleheart and Mahogany), as well as owning the HP-100 original, then modded for a few years. These two headphones are at opposite ends of closed-back collection I would say, having hardly anything in common. The HP-100's do Isolation about 5x better than the Fostex, especially with the pleather Dekoni earpads, which also improve dynamics & soundstage somewhat. Vocals sound good on the two, but the Fostex are much more lush and vivid in the mids, and additionally have the ability to handle complex passages, which lacks on the Soundmagics. All 3 versions of the Fostex have better bass definition than the SoundMagics, as well as more natural / organic sounding mids.
> 
> But IMHO, that's where as far as the cookie crumbles with those Fostex over the SoundMagics. Overall the TH-X00 variants all have either too much bass emphasis or hyper-analytical treble, and they all seem to cause listening fatigue from the low and/or highs being overdone, and all being a quite 'colored' sound with isolation almost as low as an open-back.
> 
> ...





DecentLevi said:


> No problem folks! The Senn. HD-380 Pro is an ABSOLUTE upgrade to SoundMagic Hp-100/150's. Basically everything that's good about the (modded, much improved version of it), plus bass that reaches deeper with more authority, vastly improved imaging / layering and details, and greatly larger soundstage. To me it one-ups the Senn. HD-650 in a few ways with perhaps the best voicing I've ever heard in a closed-back, sub-$2,000 anyway... that is to say yes it does vocals with great finesse and realism, being very tonally balanced. Search online and you'll find only positive reviews. The only reason I don't have mine YET is because I'm currently in a remote area. But geez, they're only about 1/2 the price of the initial SoundMagics, so why not.
> 
> PS- the cups are huge so they will fit around any ears


----------



## angpsi

Guys, I know you all migrated in Euforia land, but the Elise thread has reached 10.000 posts. Wanna give it a Viking funeral? Personally I feel very emotional because the thread has reached a threshold at the same time as I [feel I] reached my summit with the Elise, and I'm now considering migrating to different ventures.


----------



## pctazhp

angpsi said:


> Guys, I know you all migrated in Euforia land, but the Elise thread has reached 10.000 posts. Wanna give it a Viking funeral? Personally I feel very emotional because the thread has reached a threshold at the same time as I [feel I] reached my summit with the Elise, and I'm now considering migrating to different ventures.



I think it's pretty hard to end a thread. I think only HeadFi admin can do that. I suspect that there remain some Elise owners who still look at that thread occasionally and may be some people come along who are thinking about Elise who may find some helpful information there. When I started the thread I thought it would be a quiet place for a few of us who weren't interested in the Christmas Tree/Frankenstien craze that was in full force at the other Elise thread at the time. I'm surprised and happy it reached 10,000 posts. 

Good luck with whatever course your quest takes you. There are a lot of great amps out there. But amp rolling can be even more expensive than tube rolling))) For me, Euforia is truly the end of the line. But I'm at a stage in my life where even thinking about what else might be out there isn't fun, let alone actually pursuing greener grass. I don't feel I'm missing anything with Euforia. My one remaining audio dilemma is deciding whether to stick with Bimby and buy Eitr, or upgrade to new Gumby with Gen5 USB. Even with Gen2 USB Bimby is quite wonderful for my ears. Again, good luck


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Yes...
> 
> Wasn't me! It was PCT.



Sorry, O...as would probably be confirmed by @pctazhp himself..._*guilty by association!!*_  ...(just pray all goes well with the adapting lol! )...


----------



## connieflyer

It is all pcts fault! He is a troublemaker! Always stirring up trouble! In fact! It's what did he he does! Sorry PCT, I still think you're cool


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I think it's pretty hard to end a thread. I think only HeadFi admin can do that. I suspect that there remain some Elise owners who still look at that thread occasionally and may be some people come along who are thinking about Elise who may find some helpful information there. When I started the thread I thought it would be a quiet place for a few of us who weren't interested in the Christmas Tree/Frankenstien craze that was in full force at the other Elise thread at the time. I'm surprised and happy it reached 10,000 posts.


I agree that the Elise thread still has a purpose, and, btw, I still have Elise #3.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> It is all pcts fault! He is a troublemaker! Always stirring up trouble!


That he is!  But we still love him.


----------



## hypnos1

angpsi said:


> Guys, I know you all migrated in Euforia land, but the Elise thread has reached 10.000 posts. Wanna give it a Viking funeral? Personally I feel very emotional because the thread has reached a threshold at the same time as I [feel I] reached my summit with the Elise, and I'm now considering migrating to different ventures.



Hi ang..."Viking funeral"?..._*WHY, lol?!...*_more like a New Year Grand Fireworks Display, surely?!   ...

All threads have 'quiet' periods, plus a good few owners who - for their own reasons - choose, sadly, not to participate....especially in the Summer months lol!!
But - as @pctazhp says - plenty of folks still look in, even with just the occasional post being made...those who, like myself, for one reason or another perhaps simply cannot devote the same amount of time to our hobby as was once possible.

I'm quite sure Elise threads will continue for a good long while yet - F-A's amps are going to be around for a lot longer still...especially as Lukasz is determined to keep 'tweaking' each model to raise performance even further, as well as look to introducing an even higher-spec 'flagship' model in the future.

And so, good times ahead, dear friends...no funeral fires - or marches! - on this horizon lol!!! ....CHEERS!...CJ





Oskari said:


> *I agree that the Elise thread still has a purpose, *and, btw, I still have Elise #3.



Purpose indeed, O...and much more besides lol! 

ps.....#3?...getting a bit old in the tooth, no?...time to raid the savings, my good friend!! ...(plus, you've just _got_ to get the Hugo2 - this thing defies all sense and reason!! ...but send the bill to @pctazhp or @connieflyer, not to *me!!!*...CHEERS!...).


----------



## connieflyer

@hypnos1 , thank you for being so generous with pcts money and my own. That's very thoughtful of you, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate being Remembered in this way! And I'm sure that PCT would want to share in the Delight by buying o a Hugo 2! After all what are friends for anyways? Hope you are all well


----------



## Oskari

Sounds like a plan!


----------



## Johnnysound

Have you seen the new prices for Euforia (and Elise) in FA website ??  1999 and 1299  Euro !!  I am congratulating myself for getting mine less than 2 months ago, still at the old price, and even lower W/O tubes !!   This is what I call a good audio investment.

The Euforia is now offered with premium Psvane CV181-T Mk2 tubes,  a very well reviewed tube that I would like to test any day.  Some people say that however good, it is a bit "analytical", and they prefer the smoother sounding Shuguang CV181-Z  (note the "Z"),  they also say that both tubes are made in the same Shuguang factory.  Who knows.  Anyway, the Psvane goes for around $160 for a pair, while the Shuguang is about $130...any experiences ?


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Have you seen the new prices for Euforia (and Elise) in FA website ??  1999 and 1299  Euro !!  I am congratulating myself for getting mine less than 2 months ago, still at the old price, and even lower W/O tubes !!   This is what I call a good audio investment.
> 
> The Euforia is now offered with premium Psvane CV181-T Mk2 tubes,  a very well reviewed tube that I would like to test any day.  Some people say that however good, it is a bit "analytical", and they prefer the smoother sounding Shuguang CV181-Z  (note the "Z"),  they also say that both tubes are made in the same Shuguang factory.  Who knows.  Anyway, the Psvane goes for around $160 for a pair, while the Shuguang is about $130...any experiences ?


Hi Johnnysound,

I could not believe that the prices increased so much, but after checking I see that it is so. Don't know what happened to Feliks Audio, but to pay over $2300 for the Euforia seems very steep.....


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 27, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> 
> I could not believe that the prices increased so much, but after checking I see that it is so. Don't know what happened to Feliks Audio, but to pay over $2300 for the Euforia seems very steep.....



Hi Mordy,  yes indeed.  To be precise, US $ 2356 at todays exchange rate, plus shipping.   IMO,  the new prices put the Euforia clearly into the "super premium" category, and the Elise now costs even more than the Euforia before the increment...the new "affordable" HP amp in FA lineup is the Expressivo MKII,  at 799 Euro,  more than the Elise a few weeks ago...


----------



## Dvdlucena

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Mordy,  yes indeed.  To be precise, US $ 2356 at todays exchange rate, plus shipping.   IMO,  the new prices put the Euforia clearly into the "super premium" category, and the Elise now costs even more than the Euforia before the increment...the new "affordable" HP amp in FA lineup is the Expressivo MKII,  at 799 Euro,  more than the Elise a few weeks ago...


Man What is going on??????!!?
1000 dollars price increment? 
Maybe they are receiving too much orders after can jam...
So sad. Better to order a Eddie current zana deux now


----------



## Althalus

It looks as if they did an internal upgrade for the Euforia for the 2018 model. Maybe H1 can find out more and explain it to us. 

Althalus


----------



## aqsw

Wow, I was thinking about getting an amp from Feliks, but the price went to (contact for price). I think I will have to look elsewhere.

The Rogue Atlas Magnum really piques my interest now.


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> I could not believe that the prices increased so much, but after checking I see that it is so. Don't know what happened to Feliks Audio, but to pay over $2300 for the Euforia seems very steep.....


Their prices used to be in USD, but are now in EUR. When did this change happen? And…

Did they multiply instead of dividing?


----------



## grizzlybeast (Oct 4, 2017)

I had my review up here at Earphiles.org
http://earphiles.org/2017/09/feliks-audio-euforia-review/


----------



## pctazhp (Sep 27, 2017)

Any manufacturer can set whatever price it wants. And it will reap the benefits or suffer the consequences. We don’t really know what is behind the price increase. All I know is my Euforia used as a headphone amp still sounds the same as it did before the price increase. But if I were to start over with either Elise or Euforia I doubt that I would take a chance on either one at the new prices. No chance to audition either here in Arizona before committing to a purchase. F-A seems to making more appearances in Europe and maybe they feel they can successfully compete against amps at the new price points. I certainly don’t know.

I will probably be able to compare my Euforia with a Zana Deux amp at a local meet on Oct 21. If I do I’ll report what I think. But even if it sounds a lot better I’ll be sticking with Euforia.


----------



## grizzlybeast (Sep 27, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Any manufacturer can set whatever price it wants. And it will reap the benefits or suffer the consequences. We don’t really know what is behind the price increase. All I know is my Euforia used as a headphone amp still sounds the same as it did before the price increase. But if I were to start over with either Elise or Euforia I doubt that I would take a chance on either one at the new prices. No chance to audition either here in Arizona before committing to a purchase. F-A seems to making more appearances in Europe and maybe they feel they can successfully compete against amps at the new price points. I certainly don’t know.
> 
> I will probably be able to compare my Euforia with a Zana Deux amp at a local meet on Oct 21. If I do I’ll report what I think. But even if it sounds a lot better I’ll be sticking with Euforia.



The Zana Deux (without the S and basically close to the S sans some cap upgrades):

Cleaner
More spacious with better imaging
less forward
More neutral and a little more boring
Better bass control
Images better
The Euforia

sounds more engaging
More full in the midrange
More upbeat
Less resolving


----------



## hypnos1

Althalus said:


> It looks as if they did an internal upgrade for the Euforia for the 2018 model. Maybe H1 can find out more and explain it to us.
> 
> Althalus



Hi guys...must admit to being rather surprised (and somewhat saddened) at the level of price rises.

It appears there are several factors at work here alas, not least of which - in the case of Elise, anyway - was a feeling in some quarters of it being underpriced in the first place! Plus - as with Euforia - there's to be even better protection circuitry in the pre-amp module. I still don't know the full extent of internal modifications for the 2018 models though, I'm afraid....

Euforia itself will indeed be shipping with the upgraded PsVane CV181 TII drivers, which are very good tubes...but which IMHO benefit from 'full-bodied' powers, otherwise can be a tad too 'polite' for my own particular taste.

Other factors are, apparently, the unstable exchange rate of USD for them in Poland; increasing material costs in EU, and F-A's need to expand into actual retail outlets (plus associated Marketing/Promotion) for their products - thereby increasing  costs, of course...Catch22!!... 
But I suppose these are all unfortunate facts of life for companies that need to drive their business beyond the limitations of forums such as this, when it comes to trying to expand in the marketplace. I don't envy them their position one little bit, as this will undoubtedly come as a body blow to some here - especially those who haven't been able to benefit from the earlier, extremely good value-for-money prices we have enjoyed for a long while now...and which I personally feel have not actually been at a level commensurate with a small, handbuilt to order, quality production outfit. I'm sure no other manufacturer would have even considered taking on the Elise and Euforia projects...at anything like the price levels.

It will be interesting to see what happens to future prices of similar amps in the marketplace...Feliks--Audio's prices will undoubtedly be getting much closer to the competition however, that's for sure lol!!


----------



## pctazhp

All very interesting points @hypnos1. I guess if F-A is trying to develop a dealer network it has to increase its prices to allow an attractive markup for dealers. But they are entering an entirely different market where their amps have to compete with other higher priced amps that can probably be easily compared at the the dealers or other dealers in the same area.

I agree that the FA amps were extremely good value for money. And that led to our HeadFi cult which has been going strong for I guess about 2 years. But seems to me if our cult is to continue strong we will have to attract some real money bags


----------



## connieflyer

It would be indeed interesting to know the full details on any improvements they made the amp itself. The fact that they are offering a better tube is a nice option but I don't see the value at a hundred and $50 for those two particular tubes. How how they might have increased the performance of the Eve for you over the current model, or should I say previous model now, that is still a very large jump just for an increase in any improvement. I know there a lot of factors that go into the cost of manufacturing especially if they're going to switch from being a strictly hand built on order small production app to one where they can get more production in a larger market. But at the level they are charging now they are going to have some very good competition. Especially figuring you can't try it out and let you go to a meeting someone happens to have one there. Without a distributor ship aka storefront where you can actually listened to it thats more money than I would be willing to spend just on somebody's okay that sounds really good. That is not to say that I am NOT very pleased with what FA has done with the ear for you that I have, and now using the e 11 and 12 spez to my ears it sounds even better. There are still things that you can do that will increase the enjoyment of the music but it the point that I'm at now it will be external to the amplifier. Good luck in either case


----------



## connieflyer

Speaking of money bags, how are you PCT?


----------



## Oskari

Oskari said:


> Their prices used to be in USD, but are now in EUR. When did this change happen? And…
> 
> Did they multiply instead of dividing?


So this was not the case?


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Speaking of money bags, how are you PCT?



Money bags???? You have me confused with.....well, never mind

Any way, thanks for asking. I'm feeling better. I had a challenging struggle with a flu bug I hadn't invited into my body, and still taking it easy ((((

From what little I've been able to read, I don't think any changes have been made to Elise. Euforia now comes with some elusive new drivers and it seems some modification to the preamp circuit, which wouldn't affect me as I don't use it as a preamp. I agree with you that EL11/EL12 spez probably takes it to the limit of its SQ level, which works quite well for me and any improvement will have to external.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Speaking of money bags, how are you PCT?


Speaking of indeed. Which one of you should I send the bill for my Hugo 2? It's a measly 2190 euros.


----------



## attmci

Oskari said:


> So this was not the case?


yap, they want to compete with the Hugo 2 etc in EU market. lol


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> Speaking of indeed. Which one of you should I send the bill for my Hugo 2? It's a measly 2190 euros.



Send it to H1. He's the Hugo 2 guy. I'm just the lowly $68 per pair Tesla 4654 crazy man


----------



## Oskari

pctazhp said:


> I'm just the lowly $68 per pair Tesla 4654 crazy man


I trust you will report.


----------



## pctazhp

BTW, I saw on the FA site that Euforia will be used at the Focal booth in some upcoming show in the Netherlands..


----------



## pctazhp

I will but don't hold your breath. Shipped one to my guru, but forgot to include the second one.


----------



## Althalus (Sep 27, 2017)

H1,
Thank you for your explanation, It makes sense for me. It is however (very) bad luck for those who are just too late ordering an amp. For those who already have one it's good news. Their amp has just increased in value. Not that I, and many others, will sell the Euforia (or Elise).
I can only wish FA succes in their efforts to set up a dealer network although it saddens me to see the price increase.

Althalus.


----------



## aqsw

Although I own Elise #28 and Euphoria #7, I am saddened by this news. I feel this might bury this company.


----------



## grizzlybeast

That seems very plausible.


----------



## Dvdlucena

hypnos1 said:


> .but which IMHO benefit from 'full-bodied' powers


 can you explain me this quote a little bit more?


----------



## Dvdlucena

aqsw said:


> Although I own Elise #28 and Euphoria #7, I am saddened by this news. I feel this might bury this company.


 same thoughts here....
hope they are reading this thread....


----------



## pctazhp

I think it’s premature to pronounce the bankruptcy of Feliks Audio. Many of us have taken advantage of the value FA has offered over the past 2 years. But we have no idea what their profit margin has been or how sustainable their pricing and marketing approach over the past two years is. Nor do we have any idea of the dealer network they have already assembled, what their new marketing plan consist of or what their business projections are going forward and what those projections are based on. They are a small, isolated business that has gained good recognition for their products. Part of that is based on their low prices, but FA amps are good. Few of us have compared them to the competition they will face from other products at the new price points. They have made a business decision. It may or may not be sound. But the FA people are obviously smart, hard-working people. Like all of us they like to be rewarded monetarily for their work. And like all small businesses they have to make difficult decisions every step of the way as they grow. I do feel sorry for people who did not order one of their amps as they were ramping up. But I would also feel sorry for the FA people if by continuing as they have for the last 2 years led them to future years of hard work with little reward, or even cause the company to eventually fail. I’m sure they have not taken this latest step without a great deal of thought and planning, and I hope they will be wildly successful.


----------



## connieflyer

In would have to agree, it is early yet, and if things work out for them at this price point, that is a good thing for them.  I do enjoy their amps, the Euforia is a very capable amp, and also very versatile, not many amps can roll so many tubes.  While that may not appeal to all, it is still a factor that most of us has tried, and enjoyed, (except for the wallet).  They may discovered a new configuration for the amps going forward, they do not say, but the market will figure out if this is a good or bad decision.  I wish them well.


----------



## connieflyer

Here again, I agree with PCT, H1 is the Hugo go to guy here, so I would think he would love to provide one for you!


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ...(plus, you've just _got_ to get the Hugo2 - this thing defies all sense and reason!! ...but send the bill to @pctazhp or @connieflyer, not to *me!!!*...CHEERS!...).





pctazhp said:


> Send it to H1. He's the Hugo 2 guy. I'm just the lowly $68 per pair Tesla 4654 crazy man





connieflyer said:


> Here again, I agree with PCT, H1 is the Hugo go to guy here, so I would think he would love to provide one for you!


This is not going to work out, is it, guys? Lol.


----------



## connieflyer

I doubt it!


----------



## pctazhp

Oskari said:


> This is not going to work out, is it, guys? Lol.



It has worked out perfectly for H1. He's the only one here who has Hugo2, and the rest of us just are left envying him. What more can a man hope for in life???


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 28, 2017)

pctazhp said:


> Send it to H1. He's the Hugo 2 guy. I'm just the lowly $68 per pair Tesla 4654 crazy man



Hmmm...poor ol' @Oskari - was going to re-refer the generous donation to @connieflyer, but he too seems to be pleading poverty(?!). And *no-one* would be able to prise my H2 from these grubby hands lol!!!...not even Arnie!!  ...SORRY, O!......



Dvdlucena said:


> can you explain me this quote a little bit more?



Hi Dvd...these PsV TII drivers, being a little on the 'thin/subtle' side IMHO, would benefit greatly from power tubes that are basically the opposite of this...@UntilThen has probably covered this aspect more than anyone else - here, and over on the Elise threads. The most comprehensive source of info on these tubes is probably the 'For 6AS7G tube rollers here' thread.



pctazhp said:


> I think it’s premature to pronounce the bankruptcy of Feliks Audio. Many of us have taken advantage of the value FA has offered over the past 2 years. But we have no idea what their profit margin has been or how sustainable their pricing and marketing approach over the past two years is. Nor do we have any idea of the dealer network they have already assembled, what their new marketing plan consist of or what their business projections are going forward and what those projections are based on. They are a small, isolated business that has gained good recognition for their products. Part of that is based on their low prices, but FA amps are good. Few of us have compared them to the competition they will face from other products at the new price points. They have made a business decision. It may or may not be sound. But the FA people are obviously smart, hard-working people. Like all of us they like to be rewarded monetarily for their work. And like all small businesses they have to make difficult decisions every step of the way as they grow. I do feel sorry for people who did not order one of their amps as they were ramping up. But I would also feel sorry for the FA people if by continuing as they have for the last 2 years led them to future years of hard work with little reward, or even cause the company to eventually fail. I’m sure they have not taken this latest step without a great deal of thought and planning, and I hope they will be wildly successful.



Hi pct...have quoted your full post, as you put the case much better than I...you must be a lawyer lol!! ...

And Lukasz has indeed looked in, and is very apologetic that  F-A have had to come to this decision...basically for the reasons we both mentioned. An extremely difficult one for all concerned, of course. I personally believe their amps will still be able to stand up to the competition...assuming the latter also are not immune to cost pressures in the current world economy!

Time shall indeed tell, and I can only hope their unenviable position takes them into future markets with positive results. As you mention, staying on the same course as previously would undoubtedly be a precarious one also...Catch 22 once again lol!!...especially as they wish to keep all development and production in-house, as opposed to taking advantage of cheaper labour costs in such as China etc.

However, he has just informed me of _*ONE PIECE OF GOOD NEWS - non-EU customers will now be exempt from the 23% VAT charge*_...which at least softens the blow somewhat!  We here in the UK get no such reprieve when importing from the USA, Canada, China etc.

I do, however, feel extremely sorry for those who have not yet put in their orders for any of F-A's amps, and can only hope F-A manage to find enough dealers to give most folks the chance to see just what they're capable of before parting with that extra cash...if our findings here are not quite enough to sway the decision lol!

Needless to say, even though I understand the harsh realities of life in business, I am personally extremely saddened that F-A have had to come to this decision, and also wish them well for the future - the whole family is a wonderful, extremely hard-working bunch of guys, who have devoted a great deal of time, enthusiasm and energy to a business that they have all had to subsidise by other jobs also!! They have my utmost respect, and deserve to enjoy better returns for their efforts...again, time will be the judge, and I hope it is kind to them...CHEERS!!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Eliminating the VAT for some users will help offset the price increase to some extent, the realities of doing business in a global economy is a harsh reality to be sure.  Wish them much success and good luck


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> However, he has just informed me of _*ONE PIECE OF GOOD NEWS - non-EU customers will now be exempt from the 23% VAT charge*_...which at least softens the blow somewhat!


Let's see. If that's €1999 (Euforia) and €1299 (Elise) _VAT 23%_, it's €1625.20 and €1056.10 _VAT 0%_, or about $1915 and $1244, for those outside the EU VAT area.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Eliminating the VAT for some users will help offset the price increase to some extent, the realities of doing business in a global economy is a harsh reality to be sure.  Wish them much success and good luck


I do agree, but, as a single step, it is a huge price hike whichever way I look at it.


----------



## connieflyer

No argument there, that went up considerably considering that it had gone up this year as well. If they are going to reduce this as a commercial product instead of a boutique product I can see why it had to go up, they must have looked at the economic possibilities involved, and that is their discretion.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm...poor ol' @Oskari - was going to re-refer the generous donation to @connieflyer, but he too seems to be pleading poverty(?!). And *no-one* would be able to prise my H2 from these grubby hands lol!!!...not even Arnie!!  ...SORRY, O!......


It's not easy being “frugal” me amongst you “moneybags”.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> It's not easy being “frugal” me amongst you “moneybags”.


Well, Oskari, there is another frugal person here as well, and that's me, so you are not alone.....

Bought three GEC 6080 tubes for $41 including shipping recently, and my Elise #9 was $549. Bought the Euforia #8 when they had the introductory sale with 10% off.

But I am afraid of the Prima Luna Dialogue HP lol - such a purchase (at the right price of course) would probably necessitate new speakers etc etc. So I am staying content with my Euforia/Elise and my $240 speaker system.


----------



## connieflyer

Boy have I got a deal for you then, if you are not buying that amp, then how about a nice pair of GEC 6080's . Bought these in June this year.  ORDER DATE Jun 06, 2017
1 item sold by yitry
6080 CV2984 GEC NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC42)
6080 CV2984 GEC NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC42)
( 262610696072 )

Quantity: 2
Add note
	ITEM PRICE:
US $322.20
Sell for $250.00


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Boy have I got a deal for you then, if you are not buying that amp, then how about a nice pair of GEC 6080's . Bought these in June this year.  ORDER DATE Jun 06, 2017
> 1 item sold by yitry
> 6080 CV2984 GEC NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC42)
> 6080 CV2984 GEC NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC42)
> ...


One reason I got the GEC tubes for less was that the seller did not know what they were - no brand name and no country of origin on the tubes (seller thought they were made in Germany) and no boxes.
The rest of the markings looked OK, so I took a chance.







I like the sound and use them with the Fotons.


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 30, 2017)

mordy said:


> One reason I got the GEC tubes for less was that the seller did not know what they were - no brand name and no country of origin on the tubes (seller thought they were made in Germany) and no boxes.
> The rest of the markings looked OK, so I took a chance.
> 
> 
> ...




What a bargain !!  And what an eye to spot this offer...I am no expert but the tubes surely look like GECs...no brand, only military (or industrial) markings ? Year of production ?
They are certainly not Mullards, just a few days ago I got a NOS Mullard 6080/2984 (Mitcham, 68') for $ 25, (still a great deal) in its original military box.  Good opportunity to check the differences, the most obvious is the spacing between the two top micas.  The second is the copper rods vs. the steel ones used in the GECs.  In any case, I do suspect that both tubes must sound very similar....which is good


----------



## aqsw

Got some RCA for power. I love them. Those Svetlana are toast.
Do they ever light up. Great looking tubes in the dark.


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 30, 2017)

aqsw said:


> Got some RCA for power. I love them. Those Svetlana are toast.
> Do they ever light up. Great looking tubes in the dark.



I love them too, AQ.  I mean vintage RCA coke bottles.  I just can't remember how many times I said that in the old LD thread.  Very early into this hobby, got quite cheaply a quartet of  NOS, sealed in their (crumbling)  boxes 49' and 46' RCA 6AS7Gs.  Can you imagine that ?   Truly classic, warm, spacious tube sound, specially paired with C3gs that added speed, bass and dynamics. No Svetlana could touch those RCAs, and no 6080 either, at least in my heavily modded LDIII.

But the Euforia is a different animal,  one that is turning upside down all my previous assumptions about tubes.  I mean, good tubes are still good,  but Euforia most definitely "likes" some tubes (or tube combos) much more than others.    Our current top combo  (the EL11/EL12 sp)  is VASTLY superior to the original,  and I also found that Mullards CV2984/6080, while sounding good in my old amp, really shine in the Euforia.  But not paired with just any driver.  There is a new kid on the block that  sounds really sweet,  like  made to order to drive the Mullards.  Great synergy.    Right now,  H1 and Pct have no reason to be worried,  but this combo, even before proper burn in, is very close to the top one....I can't say much more for the moment (LOL)


----------



## Tunkejazz

Johnnysound said:


> But not paired with just any driver. There is a new kid on the block that sounds really sweet, like made to order to drive the Mullards. Great synergy. Right now, H1 and Pct have no reason to be worried, but this combo, even before proper burn in, is very close to the top one....I can't say much more for the moment (LOL)



"Venga ya!"


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> Guys, I know you all migrated in Euforia land, but the Elise thread has reached 10.000 posts. Wanna give it a Viking funeral? Personally I feel very emotional because the thread has reached a threshold at the same time as I [feel I] reached my summit with the Elise, and I'm now considering migrating to different ventures.



Whatever you decide to do Angelo, I wish you all the best. I'm glad you did reach the summit with Elise.


----------



## Walderstorn

Althalus said:


> It looks as if they did an internal upgrade for the Euforia for the 2018 model. Maybe H1 can find out more and explain it to us.
> 
> Althalus


I have still to hear the new model but from impressions of people that i trust i have no illusions, it's a 2 much of a price increase for the changes they made. I have seen in more than one place going from recommended to not-recommended because of the ridiculously high price increase. It may hurt the business, it may not...personally i would never buy either of their amps at those prices, even if i wasn't EU-based, with the kind of competition within those price brakets.

That said hopefully things will balance again.


----------



## angpsi (Oct 5, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> Whatever you decide to do Angelo, I wish you all the best. I'm glad you did reach the summit with Elise.


Thanks UT, lots of things going on in my head right now. However one thing is for sure, the Elise (and presumably Euforia, since we're in her thread) is a very refined design which plays wonderfully with my HD600/650, especially on premium tubes. Lately I've been experimenting with DACs and the Elise definitely ramps up her game the better the DAC is. I even brought my Benchmark DAC1 at the office and attached it to the Eitr, and then to the Elise: the result is definitely worth an audition, as the Elise retains Benchmark's separation and imaging but smoothens out all the harsh edges.

Since I found you, please remind me: wasn't it you who was experiencing a crackling noise on one of the Elise's channels? I'm having the same issue on the right channel so any day now I'm going to be shipping the Elise back to FA for a health checkup.

Finally, about the price hike; I was honestly shocked as well with the price increase. Indeed, if the Elise and Euforia were priced at these prices from the beginning I might have opted for more seasoned comparable designs with proper dealership networks and local support. In Greece these include Icon Audio, Quad (e.g. PA1), etc., let alone SS designs such as Questyle; so it probably would have been hard for me to gamble on the word of sympathetic postings on Head-Fi, however enthusiastic they might be. That said, if FA manages to get all the established publications raving about their products then maybe they will be well served to increase the price. And us who bought in early will enjoy the pleasure of being a pioneer in the birth of another established audio company!

*Sorry guys for discussing the Elise on a Euforia thread, but that's where UT posted me his wishes, so I had to reply here!


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 5, 2017)

Angelo, I think a lot of things are going on in our heads these days.

I had the best of times with Elise and Euforia in the last 2 years. Not just with the amps but also a very special bonding with Lukasz. He is one of the best dealer I have met. Very professional, helpful and friendly.

I have given all the praise and accolades to Elise and Euforia. Like I say, it was the best of times.

However my audio journey will see changes. I have one more week left before Euforia changes hands to a new lucky owner.

Cheers
UT


----------



## angpsi

UntilThen said:


> However my audio journey will see changes.



From what I gather, your place is close to resembling to an audio dealership these days!!


----------



## UntilThen

angpsi said:


> From what I gather, your place is close to resembling to an audio dealership these days!!



I'm expanding my portfolio.  Weekends is the best time for me. I'll cycle through the gears to listen to music. They all sound wonderful, from speakers to headphones. From solid state to tube amps. From digital dac to analogue turntable, I love the music it is producing. I've since given up hope of painting my deck.


----------



## Burgerbassist

Hey Guys,

I know I'm a little late to the party (as this thread is at 268 pages - a wealth of information for me to dig through!), but I just took delivery on a used Euforia this weekend.  It came with Mullard 6080's and Sylvania 6sn7gtb's, but I've just been enjoying the stock tubes for now.  They sound fantastic!  I couldn't be happier with this little amp, especially given that I snagged a used model and avoided that nasty price increase!  It pairs wonderfully with my Beyer T1.2's and my Meridian Explorer2/Tidal MQA setup.  I'm looking forward to lots of listening, but I think I am going to just enjoy this thing stock for a while before I go too crazy with tube rolling.

Thanks to those who I've talked to (both in messages and forum replies) that have pushed me toward making this purchase!  As I said above, I couldn't be happier.

Happy listening!
- Dan


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> I love them too, AQ.  I mean vintage RCA coke bottles.  I just can't remember how many times I said that in the old LD thread.  Very early into this hobby, got quite cheaply a quartet of  NOS, sealed in their (crumbling)  boxes 49' and 46' RCA 6AS7Gs.  Can you imagine that ?   Truly classic, warm, spacious tube sound, specially paired with C3gs that added speed, bass and dynamics. No Svetlana could touch those RCAs, and no 6080 either, at least in my heavily modded LDIII.
> 
> But the Euforia is a different animal,  one that is turning upside down all my previous assumptions about tubes.  I mean, good tubes are still good,  but Euforia most definitely "likes" some tubes (or tube combos) much more than others.    Our current top combo  (the EL11/EL12 sp)  is VASTLY superior to the original,  and I also found that Mullards CV2984/6080, while sounding good in my old amp, really shine in the Euforia.  But not paired with just any driver.  There is a new kid on the block that  sounds really sweet,  like  made to order to drive the Mullards.  Great synergy.    Right now,  H1 and Pct have no reason to be worried,  but this combo, even before proper burn in, is very close to the top one....I can't say much more for the moment (LOL)





Burgerbassist said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I know I'm a little late to the party (as this thread is at 268 pages - a wealth of information for me to dig through!), but I just took delivery on a used Euforia this weekend.  It came with Mullard 6080's and Sylvania 6sn7gtb's, but I've just been enjoying the stock tubes for now.  They sound fantastic!  I couldn't be happier with this little amp, especially given that I snagged a used model and avoided that nasty price increase!  It pairs wonderfully with my Beyer T1.2's and my Meridian Explorer2/Tidal MQA setup.  I'm looking forward to lots of listening, but I think I am going to just enjoy this thing stock for a while before I go too crazy with tube rolling.
> 
> ...


Hi BB,

Welcome on board! The Euforia is a great amp and you will have a lot of musical pleasure from it.


----------



## Burgerbassist

Johnnysound said:


> I love them too, AQ.  I mean vintage RCA coke bottles.  I just can't remember how many times I said that in the old LD thread.  Very early into this hobby, got quite cheaply a quartet of  NOS, sealed in their (crumbling)  boxes 49' and 46' RCA 6AS7Gs.  Can you imagine that ?   Truly classic, warm, spacious tube sound, specially paired with C3gs that added speed, bass and dynamics. No Svetlana could touch those RCAs, and no 6080 either, at least in my heavily modded LDIII.
> 
> But the Euforia is a different animal,  one that is turning upside down all my previous assumptions about tubes.  I mean, good tubes are still good,  but Euforia most definitely "likes" some tubes (or tube combos) much more than others.    Our current top combo  (the EL11/EL12 sp)  is VASTLY superior to the original,  and I also found that Mullards CV2984/6080, while sounding good in my old amp, really shine in the Euforia.  But not paired with just any driver.  There is a new kid on the block that  sounds really sweet,  like  made to order to drive the Mullards.  Great synergy.    Right now,  H1 and Pct have no reason to be worried,  but this combo, even before proper burn in, is very close to the top one....I can't say much more for the moment (LOL)



Hey Johnny, what drivers were you referencing to pair with the Mullard 6080s here?


----------



## UntilThen

Burgerbassist said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I know I'm a little late to the party (as this thread is at 268 pages - a wealth of information for me to dig through!), but I just took delivery on a used Euforia this weekend.  It came with Mullard 6080's and Sylvania 6sn7gtb's, but I've just been enjoying the stock tubes for now.  They sound fantastic!  I couldn't be happier with this little amp, especially given that I snagged a used model and avoided that nasty price increase!  It pairs wonderfully with my Beyer T1.2's and my Meridian Explorer2/Tidal MQA setup.  I'm looking forward to lots of listening, but I think I am going to just enjoy this thing stock for a while before I go too crazy with tube rolling.
> 
> ...



You will love Euforia. It's a tone I'll never forget. Enjoy.


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 9, 2017)

Burgerbassist said:


> Hey Johnny, what drivers were you referencing to pair with the Mullard 6080s here?



Hi, BB, and welcome ¡

I was referring to the Russian 6N1P-E double triodes,  triple mica from 1963 (I understand it is a long-life, military version of 6N1P)  a tube that was considered kind of a "holy grail" in the 6922 thread here at Head Fi.  It was (is) used as a driver in top amps by Audio Research,  for example, for some reason.  The "E" version is findable but rare,  and the "plain" 6N1P is a very common and relatively cheap tube.  I would suggest NEVZ tubes from the sixties as a good starting point. Of course, you´ll need proper 6922/E88CC to 6SN7 adaptors. I use these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-E88CC-692...830015&hash=item41cd59d0d5:g:r-QAAOSwyQtV5Acn





One of  the main reasons I tried this tube is that it is 100% electrically compatible with 6SN7s,  (a "drop in" replacement in any 6SN7 circuit according to the "Lampizator" page) so it should be quite safe to use as a driver in the Euforia  (frankly, I do not want to experiment with untested tubes in my Euforia...)  after a lenghty burn in, I found this tube a perfect companion to the Mullard 6080s,  outperforming  6SN7s and even the mighty C3gs in MY setup (Euforia used as preamp)  with a lively, full bodied, sweet sound and also great bass...


----------



## sotto123

I received the Euforia earlier today. I've been using the stock tubes and am liking what I hear so far. 

I have a pair of RCA 6AS7G at hand too. What tubes go well with them?


----------



## mordy (Oct 9, 2017)

Hi sotto123,

I had very good results driving the RCA 6AS7G with Foton  6N8C tubes. These tubes are  so cheap that it is hard to believe -  $3.97 each, shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6N8S-Aud...334682?hash=item4b26e8bf1a:g:DEAAAOSwA3dYVRnF

This combo is so good that I call it the GEC 6AS7G saver....except that I am now running the Fotons with a pair of GEC 6080 which I got a deal on - very nice sounding, and ATM I have no desire to switch. However, the Foton + RCA is well worth trying.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 10, 2017)

welcome, @Burgerbassist - just out of curiosity did you get yours used or new, and which headphones are you using?

Welcome too @sotto123 - impressive gear on your page. I'll bet the Euforia must sound splendid out of the Gungnir multibit... and wow did you prefer the HD-600 / 650 over the LCD 2.2? And looks like both you and UT have the Atticus


----------



## sotto123

> Welcome too @sotto123 - impressive gear on your page. I'll bet the Euforia must sound splendid out of the Gungnir multibit... and wow did you prefer the HD-600 / 650 over the LCD 2.2? And looks like both you and UT have the Atticus



Hey DecentLevi,

I went on a bit of a buying spree these past few months determined to find my end game setup, so I'll be selling a few things in the next couple of weeks.

Turns out that the first pair of headphones I bought in this hobby were the ones for me. Modding the HD650 only made them better. They just sound so right. Tonality is a characteristic I value more than anything else. The LCD 2.2 is actually the one pair of headphones I miss, much prefering them to the pre-fazor LCD-3. I may need to pick up a pair again at some point. The Atticus is good, but a bit dark and I have no need for a closed pair of headphones.

I'm actually not too crazy about the Gumby. I prefer the musicality of the 2Qute. The Gumby is good for critical listening but it lacks a bit of soul and rhythm. I can't fully relax and sink into the music when using it.

All that is left to do is to try a NOS DAC and I should be done. Ah, but then there are tube combinations to play with, says the voice in my head.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 10, 2017)

Sotto, looks like you're quite IN with the hobby and well into a good endgame perhaps. According to your DAC preferences, I'd recommend the Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 1 (review link here). It's $1.7k but should give a lifetime of enjoyment, and AFAIK should be upgradable to level 3 should you ever want to do so on your own or through the manufacturer. It's a highly reviewed R2R (multibit) DAC with NOS mode, and I have tried it on 3 separate occasions with mid-fi and summit-fit headphones, always with unwavering results. The only reason I may not go for this one though, is the Chord Hugo 2 is only about $800 more; also sounds_ at least_ as good as the Holo Spring level _*3*_, has optional built-in amp, and is like 100x more portable.


----------



## sotto123

I came across the Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 1 in my search, but am going to go with the MHDT Orchid. All their DAC's seem to get good reviews, and I think this one may have a sound I would really enjoy.


----------



## Burgerbassist

DecentLevi said:


> welcome, @Burgerbassist - just out of curiosity did you get yours used or new, and which headphones are you using?
> 
> Welcome too @sotto123 - impressive gear on your page. I'll bet the Euforia must sound splendid out of the Gungnir multibit... and wow did you prefer the HD-600 / 650 over the LCD 2.2? And looks like both you and UT have the Atticus



Welcome @sotto123!

@DecentLevi I ended up getting mine used on US Audio Mart.  I had set up a deal to buy a Feliks Elise and the person stopped responding, so I looked around some more and found this used Euforia.  It was a couple hundred under retail and while I was thinking it over Feliks upped the prices for the 2018 models, which helped me finalize the decision to jump on the used Euforia.

I run Beyerdynamic T1.2's through it, and they sound fantastic!  I think they can generally be a little bright (although they're still new and I've read they settle in a bit more after 100+ hours) but the Euforia seems to tame that just the right amount.  I also have a Sennheiser HDVA 600, which is a bit too clinical for my tastes.  In contrast, the Euforia allows me to get sucked into the music, rather than feeling like I'm analyzing like I sometimes do with the Sennheiser.

P.S. - I also just updated the equipment on my profile here, which I had been slacking on since signing up.  There's not much at the level that you and Sotto are discussing, but the way I look at it that just gives me more room to grow.


----------



## Burgerbassist (Oct 10, 2017)

Hey @Johnnysound ,

Thanks for the info!  Judging on your past posts, I thought you were talking about the 6N1P-E, but I couldn't tell for sure.

Those are, indeed, hard to find tubes.  I've come across a lot of 6N1P-EV's and 6N1P-EB's with the grey box plates, but no plain 6N1P-E's with the dual black plates, which seem to be the "holy grail" tubes you're referring to.  Oh well, it gives me something to hunt for, and in the meantime I can try the box plate model and also be happy with the stock Euforia tubes, as they sound great, too!


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 13, 2017)

Burgerbassist said:


> Hey @Johnnysound ,
> 
> Thanks for the info!  Judging on your past posts, I thought you were talking about the 6N1P-E, but I couldn't tell for sure.
> 
> Those are, indeed, hard to find tubes.  I've come across a lot of 6N1P-EV's and 6N1P-EB's with the grey box plates, but no plain 6N1P-E's with the dual black plates, which seem to be the "holy grail" tubes you're referring to.  Oh well, it gives me something to hunt for, and in the meantime I can try the box plate model and also be happy with the stock Euforia tubes, as they sound great, too!



Hi BB, you probably missed my post #4018 above (with pics), about the 6N1P-E.  This is the one I am talking about.  But, frankly, I do not believe that much in “holy grails”.  I do suspect that a good plain 6N1P NEVZ of the same era (this is quite important) must sound very similar. And since the “holy grail” fever of this tube passed some years ago, prices dropped accordingly.  Last month,  and only by curiosity, I got a pair for $ 28 from a Russian seller.  I just wanted to check what this fuss was all about.  I don’t know if holy grail or not, the NOS tubes sounded,  well, nice but somewhat recessed, lacking air, but after 30 hours or so they opened up.  Tried some powers and found that 6080 Mullards were just the ticket. Maybe not for all kinds of music, but for Smooth Jazz/Lounge/Chill (that my 21 year old kid wants me to play) from Tidal  MQA, the combo sounds clear,  vibrant and dynamic,  with deep , controlled, tight bass,  and at the same time organic and sweet in the Euforia, period.  And I am not saying there is no refinement, but exciting they are for sure.  Thats why I like these tubes.  Be patient, will appear for sale at any moment.

This is not to say that other combos will not sound great in Euforia.  Just my experience...


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 14, 2017)

As a postscript to my previous post, I really don’t know the meaning of all that Russian versions  “E”, “EB”, “EV” and others, versus the plain 6N1P tube, other than they indicate long-life, military variants.  The “E” version, however, is very different from the standard tube.  Apart from the triple micas, it has square, paralell black plates “american style” (against the common box type grey plates) and a top, wide round getter instead of the famous “UFO type” shared by almost all Russian tubes.  Interesting, as the “Lampizator” site says, the type was conceived as a compact, space saving substitute for the 6SN7, and the “E” version looks like an all out effort to compete with western tubes...anyway, the type was designed specifically for audio,  to be very linear and this is quite relevant, since 6SN7s were not designed exactly for that purpose.  

If a legend like Audio Research selected this Russian tube as a driver for some of their great tube amps, they surely know a lot more than me.  I just want to know what version they use, probably not the “E” one...


----------



## DecentLevi

Nice to see a few new faces around here. And my being still abroad, one constant I have to look forward to in my return to the states is the mega sound Euforia amp. It's the amp "that could", and did something astonishing with tubes in such a modest package.

Our all time friend UntilThen and one that I'd say really helped get Felix Audio into the limelight will be getting his Glenn amp after some time, and I for one would like to hear at least a by-memory comparison to his former Euforia, though it might be a bit 'apples to oranges'.


----------



## aqsw

Not sure if you guys have checked out the main page but Moedawg needs our help. All funds are needed to help our brother out.
He is truly one of the good ones.


----------



## aqsw

I'm not sure, but I think my Euforia sounds a lot better since the price increase!


----------



## canthearyou

My Elise is STILL stuck in customs! Henryk has been in touch with me on updates and document requests. What was started August 4th is still in progress. Hopefully someday I'll see my Elise. 

Good news is I have a brand new 2018 Euforia on the way! Got it with the new upgrade tubes offered on Feliks website. Damned thing better sound freakin' amazing!


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I'm not sure, but I think my Euforia sounds a lot better since the price increase!



You could just be right there aq!! ...and I'm sure @Burgerbassist and @sotto123 would also agree lol!!...(hope you latter guys are also beginning to see just what Euforia is _really_ capable of!!).

And I'm sure you too @DecentLevi will be reminded of her virtues BIG time when you can manage that reunion lol!!



canthearyou said:


> My Elise is STILL stuck in customs! Henryk has been in touch with me on updates and document requests. What was started August 4th is still in progress. Hopefully someday I'll see my Elise.
> 
> Good news is I have a brand new 2018 Euforia on the way! Got it with the new upgrade tubes offered on Feliks website. Damned thing better sound freakin' amazing!



Sorry to hear of such dreadful delays on your Elise, canthearyou...but that's great news indeed re. a nice new Euforia - she will not disappoint you, to be sure! ...


Now then all...on the subject of 'freakin' amazing!' - especially after recent apparent opinion in some quarters that this amp move from 'recommended to not recommended' -  all I can say is that some folks are quite obviously NOT providing the right environment for her to shine to her full potential!!....viz  :

For some time now, I've been describing the continued increases in Euforia's performance in line with upgrades to mains conditioning; media source; DAC. My latest target was my (already good!) cabling - thick, highly shielded mains cable and power cords, and pure silver interconnects.... Despite being somewhat skeptical at first, my initial trials with Neotech's single crystal UPOCC silver (and copper) cables that I terminated myself (both for interconnects and power cords) took Euforia to yet another level. Then, to my surprise, another pair of interconnects using better quality RCA plugs (KLEI 'Harmony') brought even better performance...which prompted me to bypass plug connections altogether and give poor ol' F-A yet another heart attack - they're used to me by now, however!  - ie. by connecting the cable's wires direct to the signal wires _inside_ the amp!!....Naturally, this is not for the faint-hearted as it will invalidate the warranty, but y'all know me by now lol!!!...(as does Lukasz, fortunately!). Anyway, along with modifying the plugs at the other end so that the wires make_ direct _contact with the Hugo2's sockets (not even going to try getting inside _that!_), the result was *way *beyond expectation...almost like a totally different amp, in fact...absolutely amazing! And all the more surprising, *given the extremely good* *quality RCA sockets used in Euforia.*

Obviously, this last act was more for my own curiosity and cannot be a realistic basis for showcasing Euforia's potential...but is just the culmination of a progression from good cable with average plugs, thru UPOCC wire-based cable with high quality plugs, to the ultimate - NO plugs!!...and no sockets, if possible lol!!...

Anyway, folks, even without going to my own final extreme, I have proved that this amp is actually capable of performing to a level that probably *can* compete with amps in its new price category. It is limited only _*by the rest of the system!
*_
My progressive upgrades have also highlighted two other elements within my system : firstly, that such upgrades bring exponential improvements to the performance of EL tubes in Euforia (specifically my mesh-plate EL11s driving TFK EL12 Spezial powers), even though not actually configured for them. They have continued to deliver more at every step...much more so than any other tubes I have ever used (and regarded as 'top flight') - _especially_ after my latest cable and plug forays. And after many 100s of hours' sole use now, they have had NO detrimental effect whatsoever on the amp...the opposite, in fact - the added bonus being the amp runs with case and trafo housing running barely warm.

Secondly - again especially with UPOCC cable and better plugs - my Beyer T1s(Gen 1) now show none of the slight (sometimes harsh, even!) criticisms thrown at them. In fact, the 'retuning' of Gen 2 would probably do no favours at all to the sound I'm now getting from my originals. The overall presentation is now so smooth, perfectly balanced, clear and with impeccable control, that I never believed them capable of such performance. In fact, I now have no desire whatsoever to even think of getting the HD 800 lol! The difference is quite astonishing......

And so, to round off, I personally believe that although in many ways unfortunate, the recent price hikes of Elise and Euforia do in fact reflect more closely their true pedigree and _potential_. Those of us who acquired one (or both!) of these amps at much lower prices were indeed extremely fortunate, and did so with precious little profit going towards any kind of proper remuneration to the Feliks family...for either their R&D or dedicated efforts in producing these early units. I for one believe they deserve immense gratitude and respect for what they have done for us here...not ill-informed, unsympathetic criticism, which comes only too easily to some, I fear...

I wish all lucky Euforia (and Elise!) owners continued enjoyment of their wonderful amps...and hope you too manage to provide - as and when permissible! - the kind of environment in which they can truly shine to their fullest lol!! ...CHEERS!  ...CJ


----------



## Walderstorn

aqsw said:


> I'm not sure, but I think my Euforia sounds a lot better since the price increase!



Lol that was a joke that made me chuckle because some fanboys are that blind/crazy/obsessed...like "i plugged In directly with xba cable, put a colar that a blind nun from Guadalajara made out of blessed seasheells, turned it 5 degrees at the moon where there's a holy mountain in which lives a goat descendent of the ancient god 123  and took it to another 30x4/2+quantum superiority level, 10x their price". It's pretty pathetic  and sad.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 18, 2017)

Insightful post above Hypnos1 how this great amp 'scales' with down/upstream gear and even custom connections so well. I don't suppose we'll be seeing a photo of your internal wire mod... save for 'image' issues, Lol.

Anyway I have a slightly rare topic to mention: many of us hi-fi hobbyists are actually hearing fidelity better than the studio engineer!! Granted this may get some chuckles, and indeed there are many multi-million $$ studios with speaker systems that rival SQ of most of our headphone rigs... but I say this after years of cinsideratiin and experience producing, collecting hi-fi rigs and seeing what is actually used inside some studios, which are often the likes of Beyer. DT-150, Sony MDR V6 and older Yahama models etc. All too often recently after upgrading my chain I realise after the fact how much better my songs now sound than when originally making them! So those owners of a _well implemented_ Euforia... or even the Elise dine right for that matter - and especially even higher level systems, you can literally consider yourself to be luckier than many of the studio engineers (with some exceptions of course)!


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Insightful post above Hypnos1 how this great amp 'scales' with downstream gear and even custom connections so well. I don't suppose we'll be seeing a photo of your internal wire mod... save for 'image' issues, Lol.
> 
> Anyway I have a slightly rare topic to mention: many of us hobbyists are actually hearing fidelity better than the studio engineer!! Granted this may get some chuckles, and indeed there are many multi-million $$ studios with speaker systems that topple most of our headphone rigs... but this is a product of years of experience producing, collecting hi-fi rigs and seeing what is actually used inside many studios, which are often the likes of Beyer. DT-150, Sony MDR V6 and older Yahama models etc. All too often recently after upgrading my chain I realise after the fact how much better my songs now sound than when originally making them! So those owners of a _well implemented_ Euforia and higher level systems, you can literally consider yourself to be luckier than many of the studio engineers (with some exceptions of course)!



Thanks DL...my findings are based on purely empirical observations, using test pieces that I know intimately, and not as some kind of 'fanboy' exaggerated wishful thinking lol! ...(Mind you, I suppose I must be #1fan, having instigated both Euforia and Elise!!! ). I shall list the main areas of improvement shortly.

'Chuckles' are indeed to be expected occasionally - although your comments re. some studio engineers are bang on, given the dire nature of a good many recordings lol!!, but the kind of insulting, derisory comments made by a certain member belong only on forums such as those that 'shan't be named'...certainly not in our community here at head-fi. And which are wholly against our forum rules anyway. I sincerely hope said member removes his post _voluntarily_, before any action may need to be taken by the moderators!

Although I have yet to have my last 'extreme' folly(?!) verified by fellow members, the benefits of single crystal UPOCC-wired cables in my own system, as well as an SS-based one,  have indeed been witnessed by 2 such members. I personally didn't expect such an improvement over 'ordinary' pure silver to be sure (along with better quality terminations), and which covers the whole gamut of sound delivery : viz

Bass extends deeper, with more detail and controlled impact. 
Treble range is also extended, but delivered evenly and smoothly such as to allay any possible 'niggles' in this area for the T1s (Gen 1) especially. High percussion shimmer and decay are truly delicious.
Mids come through nicely in balance, with both male and female vocals showing more texture and tonal range...especially those artists who can convey masterly emotion in their voices. 
Extended tonal range is in fact apparent throughout the FR, especially in acoustic instruments. This aspect alone brings even greater joy from (well recorded!) classical pieces, but equally from simpler acoustic fare.
Hugo 2's very adept transient handling is highlighted beautifully - the crisp start/stop of notes brings added clarity and precision to the entire presentation, with everything sounding so clean and effortless...very impressive attack/sustain/decay.
Instrument and voice separation/placement are enhanced, with pinpoint focus and imaging. The resultant soundstage is rendered even more 3-dimensional/holographic, extending more in all directions....(this last effect being extremely noticeable especially with most plug connections bypassed!!).
Dynamics are also handled with more precision/control, with uncanny smoothness from piano to forte (and back). I can turn up the volume with almost impunity - again, something often found rather tricky with the likes of the T1s!!...PRaT of the highest order...

Needless to say, these improvements are no doubt more noticeable in conjunction with my other upgraded equipment, but I'm sure such benefits will also be enjoyed without having to go to quite the extremes I've been fortunate enough to manage recently. But together, they have indeed raised Euforia's performance to a level I never imagined possible even just a short while ago...I am truly a 'happy fan'!!!   ...


----------



## connieflyer (Oct 18, 2017)

@hypnos1, glad to hear that your system continues to improve. I have noticed gains as well, not as much as yourself, but positive none the least.  I have been using Gumby, and since upgrading to the usb gen 5 board, have been using that exclusively, had been on the coax connection till then.  A noticeable improvement over the old usb board.  Also bought a Norne Audiio Draug2 cable for the Sennheiser 800, and should be here today. Also had them re-terminate the Sen 800 cable to work on my Senn 700, very interested in that combo.  Have been using the 700's for the last two weeks and they still sound very good.  Using the Sonar works plug in has the 700's sounding very good indeed. The Euforia continues to impress, as the longer I have it running the better and more articulate it has become. This week have been using the Gold Aero 6SN7's and Gold Aero 5998A's and with the 700's this is a very good sound indeed. The 6SN7's are broken in now and do really shine. When the new cable gets here and installed will be going back to the El11's and Spezials.  They really shine with the 800's.  Take care of yourself, and see if there is anything left that can be improved on with your system! PCT told me that you were considering building your own electric processing plant, He was joking, I hope!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> @hypnos1, glad to hear that your system continues to improve. I have noticed gains as well, not as much as yourself, but positive none the least.  I have been using Gumby, and since upgrading to the usb gen 5 board, have been using that exclusively, had been on the coax connection till then.  A noticeable improvement over the old usb board.  Also bought a Norne Audiio Draug2 cable for the Sennheiser 800, and should be here today. Also had them re-terminate the Sen 800 cable to work on my Senn 700, very interested in that combo.  Have been using the 700's for the last two weeks and they still sound very good.  Using the Sonar works plug in has the 700's sounding very good indeed. The Euforia continues to impress, as the longer I have it running the better and more articulate it has become. This week have been using the Gold Aero 6SN7's and Gold Aero 5998A's and with the 700's this is a very good sound indeed. The 6SN7's are broken in now and do really shine. When the new cable gets here and installed will be going back to the El11's and Spezials.  They really shine with the 800's.  Take care of yourself, and see if there is anything left that can be improved on with your system! PCT told me that you were considering building your own electric processing plant, He was joking, I hope!



Hi cf...glad to hear your own enjoyment of Euforia continues unabated - keep up the good work lol! I'm sure your new 800 cable will raise the bar even higher...shame it doesn't use UPOCC wire!!!   ...but never mind! Glad too that you are pleased with Gumby...looks like a good value piece of kit, especially with the upgraded USB board...

I too am surprised at how Euforia also continues to improve all by itself over the long term...(even though some say it is in fact our _ears_/_brain_ that 'burn-in' to the sound - probably a combination of the two lol!! ). This is where immediate changes to such as cables etc. are much more likely to produce accurate results - especially with fast A/B testing, or at least minimal time delay!

I think I just might have finally reached the end(?!) of my 'tweaking', although I might just have a go at attaching a different cable to the T1s, even though Gen1 isn't strictly swappable...my addiction to UPOCC wire/cable is now total, and I'm determined to see just how tricky/risky the job might be - HP drivers are very averse to too much heat, methinks!! But it has been done...!  ...
And I can tell you - and pct! - I would indeed create my very own mains AC power plant if I could...but I'm more than happy with my PowerInspired Mains Regenerator feeding my old-style (much better than more recent fare!) Tacima Conditioner/Filter, and thence to my AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced AC Mains/Advanced Filter 25kg monster!!! ...Overkill?...perhaps, but once again, 3rd party verified as not 'all in the mind' improvement!

I continue to be amazed at just what this amp is capable of...for the hundredth time lol!! And the enjoyment never subsides...which is what I hope for yourself, cf, and all other lucky owners of F-A's amps...CHEERS!.......and g'night (early one!)...


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,

Interesting to read about your experiences with the equipment studio engineers use and how it compares to audiophile stuff.

I remember reading a series of articles way back where prominent musicians were interviewed about their music. Then they were asked to show their music systems - most of them were not much better than boom boxes! Go figure - maybe making the music is more interesting than listening to it......


----------



## aqsw (Oct 18, 2017)

A studio engineer (over 25 years and 100s of albums)was over this afternoon discussing my daughters bands new upcoming cd.
I took him downstairs to the hp setup, put on some Lorrena. His jaw dropped. He was frickin amazed( his sort of words).
He had never heard that from a hp setup before. He asked how much?
I told him and he still liked it..

He said the Euforia would make an awesome pre in a tube system.

This was a Fiio x7》STL dac >Euforia>Focal  Elear,

I'm sure he had nowhere near this, but didn't want to admit it. Lol


----------



## connieflyer

@Hynos1, well, it is still in the first hour that I have been using the Draug2 cable on the Senn 800, and if I had not heard it on my system, with original cable, I would not believe it. This cable is one of the best improvements I have heard. It is a very worthwhile investment, imho of course, this cable is very resonably priced, about the same price as a stock cable from Senn.  The quality of workmanship if very high,  cable braiding is a thing of beauty.  But it is the increase in clarity, and definition that is so apparent.  Bass is a little more extended, tighter more controlled, mids and highs are clear as a bell. Glad I took the advice of another head fier that had close to the same set-up as I do. H with your talent with the silver wire, you have to give it a try.  The T1 is no slouch but there is room for improvement. Trevor, from Norne Audio does a fantastic job on the constuction of his cables.  The test for me, is would I buy this again, and the answer is un
equvically yes.


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## aqsw (Oct 18, 2017)

Alot of peeps don't believe in cables, but I do. I have some silver truthseekers madpe up for my Elears  from Hivemind cables. Not a brand name, but much cheaper and
Just as good. I absolutely love them. The best materials used and they are so light and flexible..

I can truly hear the difference between switching over to the oems.

I recommend Jerrold and hivemind. Check him out. He will ship worldwide 

Tell him aqsw recommended him. You will probably get a better deal !

www.hivemindcables.com


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## DecentLevi (Oct 19, 2017)

Well, what can I say... after over 2 years of constantly taking the fall for my countless delusional 'snake oil' system upgrades and impressions dismissed for OTT hype... looks like we all (or so it seems) can agree on two points. I'm exaggerating this a bit to be silly, and in fact we've often agreed on top tube combos and other experiments for those that were willing to actually try them... and to be fair the likes of tube rings for one did make a noticeable difference in some ways but not so much soundstage wise; but some upgrades become obsolete after further system upgrades.

RE studio vs. hi-fi listening rigs, certainly some studios should be able to topple even the best headphone setups (though I do say the WA-33 + Utopia may be hard to outdo), but in general I truly think that many of us devoted hi-fi enthusiasts actually have the upper hand to the average studio / recording engineer. I can't say much about speaker systems, but I can say that often (and though with many exceptions), recording studios use only the mixing console as their 'headphone amp' and generally no sort of multibit DAC, if any, other than an internal soundard; and headphone models generally don't go up further than the Beyer. DT-770 Pro. However, aside from the fact that most mastering courses focus more on levels, compression, mic placement, etc. rather than going to extremes for the ultimate purity of monitoring systems.

While the recording studio is focused on optimal _recording _environments, the hi-fi enthusiast is focused on optimal _listening _environments... perhaps you may say "you can't have one without the other", and that's true also but with one caveat. In order to get a 'final mix' to sound good on a variety of headphone / speaker systems from average consumer all the way up through summi-fi rigs, it's actually advisable for a mastering engineer to do a lot of the listening through mid-fi headphone / speaker equipment to gauge how the mix sounds to an average consumer, saving the top equipment for perhaps just the final mixdown / touch-ups.

RE cables: I too agree how these can make audible differences in a chain. I'd say it can be simplified in that "different conductors color the sound in different ways". One would not expect the same sound from say, an aluminum vs. a silver wire, nor would one expect the same sound from a hair-thin vs. a thick cable. Sometimes I find a headphone that excels in everything from isolation to soundstage, FR but may want to change the frequency / speed a bit by simply swapping cables, and I've heard quite a few cable differences that seem night / day.

PS - how has your journey been @sotto123 and @Burgerbassist ?


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## DecentLevi (Oct 19, 2017)

PS - I too agree that the tactics all too many mastering engineers use today (over-compression, brickwall limiting, excess bass emphasis, inferior digital audio recording equipment) to basically make their mix come out sounding like, well _'total s***'_ IMO, shamelessly trying to make it louder and darker than the next artist in the name of drastic cuts to purity, dynamic range, linearity, etc. and just as you folks taught me I tend to turn to decades-old recordings from the analogue area if I want better sound quality... though this is a debate for a whole other forum, one perhaps without an end so I'm just throwing this out there in closing of my above topic.

Though on a final note on this topic I thought this may be of interest: I recently came across this online database of albums organized by Dynamic Range. This website lists 114,000+ albums based on DR level. They measure the average dynamic range of all songs on an album from 0-32, with the higher number meaning you basically hear individual sounds more clearly with harder hitting drums for instance, as a result of having a larger 'headroom' rather than an over-compressed mix. While a high DR value in and of itself not a precursor to overall mastering quality they do often go hand-in-hand. Check out the below list and you may be surprised at how some of your most/least favorite albums fare, and discover some new ones including oldies here:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr/desc

PS - @UntilThen that was a well done 'farewell' on the F.A. Tube Amps thread, but something tells me you'd want to read this page too.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> Our all time friend UntilThen and one that I'd say really helped get Felix Audio into the limelight



Thanks DL but I'd be the last to stack such a claim. What I say about Elise and Euforia is genuine because they sounded marvellous. It's not hard to heap praises on those amps. If I did sound like a fan boy, that's ok because I was really one. I love the tone that I'm hearing on my headphones driven by Euforia. Notice I didn't say they are the best tube amps. I said I love what I am hearing.... a lot.

With regards to hearing significant improvements with better headphone cable, power conditioner, interconnects, power cables, you will hear improvements indeed. Some by a magnitude more than you ever expected. You must be willing to try it out yourself though. I bought the HiFi rack from a seller who told me his stereo system cost as much as a BMW 323. I believe him because the only piece of equipment I recognise is the Bricasti M1 DAC and that's almost $10,000. He told me the biggest difference any gear makes to his system is the Xindak power conditioner - a made in China box that cost just $300+.

I myself have 2 Forza Audioworks headphone cables for HD800 and Audeze LCD-2f. I love them. Very well made and naturally they sounded better to my ears than stock cables. How much more. That I cannot quantify but I do know now that my recent foray into HiFi gear have made me aware that this is a much more enjoyable way to listen to music. Not only do you hear music in a different way, you are literally moved by the sound force. Talk about soundstage and bass slam. A good speaker system does that to you that a headphone system wouldn't. That said, I still use my very capable headphone system. It is more intimate and a different experience.

Whatever you do, enjoy your music.

Below is the mainstay of my stereo system. My restored 20 years old Axis LS88. I have the fortune of the designer of the speakers in my lounge room. I know him through another friend. He brought my newly ordered Redgum RGi120ENR black series integrated amp to my place personally. This amp produce 175w 8ohms, 265w 4ohms and 500w 2ohms. John Reilly told me it will drive any speakers, even those with difficult loads. You can read about John in this article. https://audiorev.net/2016/06/29/1775/

Yes John was in my lounge and we sat listening to Led Zep 'Stairway To Heaven' on vinyl. Volume was set at 12noon. It is the most realistic, natural rendition of that Led Zep song that I've ever heard. There's none of the brightness and sibilance associated with unmatched system. The sound projected hits your chest with impact, the vocals stunningly clear and sweet and the high notes are ultra clear without any fatigue inducement. Mahler 2 would sound splendid on this. 

Next to upgrade would naturally be better cables and a power conditioner. Be aware, this hobby can be a wallet drainer. 

Bye for now. I don't post here much now but I do wish everyone happy listening.


----------



## drwlf

DecentLevi said:


> PS - I too agree that the tactics all too many mastering engineers use today (over-compression, brickwall limiting, excess bass emphasis, inferior digital audio recording equipment) to basically make their mix come out sounding like, well _'total s***'_ IMO, shamelessly trying to make it louder and darker than the next artist in the name of drastic cuts to purity, dynamic range, linearity, etc. and just as you folks taught me I tend to turn to decades-old recordings from the analogue area if I want better sound quality... though this is a debate for a whole other forum, one perhaps without an end so I'm just throwing this out there in closing of my above topic.
> 
> Though on a final note on this topic I thought this may be of interest: I recently came across this online database of albums organized by Dynamic Range. This website lists 114,000+ albums based on DR level. They measure the average dynamic range of all songs on an album from 0-32, with the higher number meaning you basically hear individual sounds more clearly with harder hitting drums for instance, as a result of having a larger 'headroom' rather than an over-compressed mix. While a high DR value in and of itself not a precursor to overall mastering quality they do often go hand-in-hand. Check out the below list and you may be surprised at how some of your most/least favorite albums fare, and discover some new ones including oldies here:
> http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr/desc
> ...



Yeah, the DR database has been invaluable for me.
Depending on the genre, sometimes there's just one release which is decent, compared to a vinyl release - if not even that. 
It's been a great tool to verify some specific releases sounding like ass, as in, "this shouldn't sound like this". 
It's been great to avoid some HDtracks/similar releases, where the DR is just abhorrent compared to other digital CD/SACD/etc. releases!


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 20, 2017)

Ed.


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Johnny,

If we're not careful, we will turn this into a HiFi thread and derail it completely lol. Seems like you are indeed enjoying your sound system very much. A good stereo system can be totally captivating. I've been listening to Dire Straits and Cassandra Wilson since coming home on the stereo system. On 'Brothers In Arms' I feel goose bumps. No subwoofers needed in my setup. My 12" sub is sitting in a corner untouched. Anymore bass would cause an earthquake. 

Enjoy your music and your gear. This is a wonderful hobby. It's wonderful to hear others talk about their gear passionately.

Cheers
UT

Ps... so engrossed was I that I was totally unaware that 2 more parcel of tubes have arrived today, sitting in my study. My daughter must have left it there. Now to check out what they are...


----------



## sotto123

DecentLevi said:


> PS - how has your journey been @sotto123?




Unfortunately, I only managed an evening of listening. There was only sound out of one channel when I received it. Using a different cable seemed to fix the issue. Next morning when I turned it on, looking forward to a day of listening, was when it all started going wrong. It should be with Feliks Audio today. I'm hoping for a quick turnaround.


----------



## pctazhp

Hello everyone. I've been dealing with some health issues and candidly haven't felt like posting lately. But I have been lurking here on almost a daily basis. Tomorrow I'm going to try to attend a local meet. This link has a pretty good list of what will probably be there: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-mini-con-arizona-head-fi-meet-october-21st-2017.857544/

I'm going to try to take my Euforia with Sylvania 6SN7 WGTdrivers and GEC6AS7 power tubes, but don't know if I'll have the energy to get it set up. I'll try to report back here if I hear anything worthy of note.


----------



## connieflyer

take care of yourself PCT,  health first, everything else later


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## Oskari

Get well soon, PCT!


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> Hello everyone. I've been dealing with some health issues and candidly haven't felt like posting lately. But I have been lurking here on almost a daily basis. Tomorrow I'm going to try to attend a local meet. This link has a pretty good list of what will probably be there: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-mini-con-arizona-head-fi-meet-october-21st-2017.857544/
> 
> I'm going to try to take my Euforia with Sylvania 6SN7 WGTdrivers and GEC6AS7 power tubes, but don't know if I'll have the energy to get it set up. I'll try to report back here if I hear anything worthy of note.



Hello old chump, sorry to hear you are not feeling well. Do get better soon. The Arizona meet needs you.

Those brown base drivers and powers will do nicely. They are one of my favourites on Euforia.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Hello old chump, sorry to hear you are not feeling well. Do get better soon. The Arizona meet needs you.
> 
> Those brown base drivers and powers will do nicely. They are one of my favourites on Euforia.


Hi pct,

Wishing you a complete and speedy recovery! (Was wondering why you haven't posted lately)


----------



## hypnos1

pctazhp said:


> Hello everyone. I've been dealing with some health issues and candidly haven't felt like posting lately. But I have been lurking here on almost a daily basis. Tomorrow I'm going to try to attend a local meet. This link has a pretty good list of what will probably be there: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-mini-con-arizona-head-fi-meet-october-21st-2017.857544/
> 
> I'm going to try to take my Euforia with Sylvania 6SN7 WGTdrivers and GEC6AS7 power tubes, but don't know if I'll have the energy to get it set up. I'll try to report back here if I hear anything worthy of note.



Hey pct...didn't you know you're not _allowed_ to be ill, so I order you to _*BE BETTER VERY SOON*_...if not already lol!! 
Hope you are indeed well back on the road, mon ami, and that you managed to enjoy to the full your meet...if so, we look forward to your musings! ...

Now then, much to my surprise...finally! (even though I believe @Oskari seemed to think this tube shouldn't be far off!), your Tesla 4654 is working absolutely perfectly in my Euforia, and is singing like a canary as partner to a TFK EL12 Spez....no untoward signs whatsoever - the opposite, in fact! As with the Spezs, the best sound I personally have ever managed to coax out of Euforia, complete with the most deathly silent, black background that most vinyl lovers can only dream of lol!  ...wonderful! Shan't know 100% for sure if they are indeed just as good as the Spezs until I have a pair running, but initial impressions are very hopeful. And at prices far cheaper than the German design. I suspect this 4654 is almost a top anode version of the Philips EL6! 

And research hints at this tube being extremely well regarded of old, but simply lost in the mists of time. It's very interesting to see an adapter available for the mighty EL34, which also hints at something special...who otherwise would want to even bother lol?!! And so the treadmill continues!!!......

Speaking of which - and is sure to tickle your fancy, O! - I am indeed going to go ahead with my 'aha' moment from LittleDot days (and HD650s) and take my recently acquired second pair of T1s _directly inside_ the amp... given the surprising result with the LD, and my interconnects into Euforia!! Naturally, my warranty is now well and truly voided lol!! 

I have my Neotech UPOCC teflon coated solid silver (2 gauges) and copper (1) wires at the ready, and battle shall commence tomorrow...wish me luck?!! ...how much would such a 12-wire HP cable cost in the marketplace?!!! By all accounts, this last(?!) venture should take Euforia's sound into really hallowed territory...or so I should darned well hope!!! Will let you know..._either_ way!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Oskari

You're so hardcore, CJ!


----------



## DecentLevi

H1 you have apparently taken your Euforia to heights none other have experienced with theirs! 

Are you using the Tesla 4654 with an EL34 adapter, and as drivers or powers? And I wonder how they compare to your other best tubes?


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## hypnos1 (Oct 26, 2017)

Oskari said:


> You're so hardcore, CJ!



Your posts are always so pithy...and _brief_, mon ami....I LOVE 'EM!!! ...wish I could take your lead...(as do many others, no doubt lol!! ).

Anyway, you might(?!) be glad to know I haven't broken into my poor amp again just yet...was too impatient to hear the results!! Mind you, attaching 12 solid wires (even with twists!) to a stereo HP jack probably took even longer in the end lol!. However, what can I say, but (sorry DL!)...WOWEEE!!!   ...OMG!!!...and this is with one of those connectors I've so come to hate!! (albeit a very good one used for the T1).

Perhaps not _quite_ the leap of bypassing the UPOCC interconnect connections, but significant nonetheless, and far greater than I really expected, given the reputation of the T1's stock cable.

And so once again, this single crystal Ultra Pure 'Continuous Cast' wire is proving its superiority over all else IMHO. The increased clarity, detail, tonal range, more expansive/3D soundstage (just for starters) is not just 'minimal'...it's substantial. It has transformed both Euforia and the T1s - the latter especially....any possible gripes about these cans is totally wiped away (with the help of tubes, at least, although I suspect the result would be similar for SS amps such as the Questyle CMA800).

So, for the princely sum of £350 for a set of VGC used T1s,v1 and a tad over £300 for the 24m of Neotech UPOCC (solid) silver and copper wires, Euforia is indeed now in _very_ hallowed territory, and delivering a sound that still has me dumbfounded lol!...(could have saved myself the £350 after all and just used my own cans, but I had visions of frying the drivers...however, at least I now have 2 spare drivers if catastrophe ever strikes lol!). All I can say is, this would be a very worthwhile project for anyone with average soldering skills...plus a good deal of patience!!!...or a very good friend with same! And youtube has plenty of material on taking the T1 (gen1) apart and dealing with the wires...Beyer really should have made the cable swappable from the outset lol!! But don't forget the interconnects as well! ...

Just a couple of pics for you :


 

Despite the 12 wires, I was pleasantly surprised the end result wasn't much thicker or heavier than the stock cable!  
A bit tricky to attach, but lots of nice silver, and a bit of copper! Most of the T1's  bulk is in fact just shielding lol!! Lightly twisting the 12 teflon coated wires provides ample protection - no  need even for full 'braiding'!!



DecentLevi said:


> H1 you have apparently taken your Euforia to heights none other have experienced with theirs!
> 
> Are you using the Tesla 4654 with an EL34 adapter, and as drivers or powers? And I wonder how they compare to your other best tubes?



Hey DL...adapter - me?!! No thanks...my usual own adapting to a different base lol! ...

Used as power - I stick to the EL11 as driver. And as I've only one at the moment, partnering a TFK EL12 Spez, I can't really tell for sure if it is as good as the Spez. But initial impressions were that it _seemed_ to be a match at least! I was impressed enough to go get my own pair of NOS tubes ('Red series' Philips stable 'RT' brand, apparently for military use) from a French ebayer who seems to have a good stock and takes offers - he accepted mine of 60 euros for the pair!). It's such a shame there isn't (yet!) a commercial adapter for 6SN7/6AS7G....

ps. I must admit my Euforia is now performing WAY beyond even just a short(ish!) time ago, and so am wondering just what the F-A guys will come up with as their (probably 2A3-based) flagship model next year lol!! )....CHEERS!...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Your posts are always so pithy...


Surely _pitiful_ must be the word you're looking for. But you're pretty much the definition of hardcore: _hardwire_ + _solid core_ = _hardcore_.


----------



## Oskari

_Simple Mind_


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> _Simple Mind_



Hi Oskari,

I am familiar with Don Vappie. He is a New Orleans musician that knows how to play in the classic NO tradition.
Just found a nice recording featuring him with two other banjo players and a rhythm section. 
Don't know what the style is (Calypso?) but it is nice...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Oskari said:


> _Simple Mind_




I am familiar with Otis Taylor, he is local to the area (well Boulder CO, which is about 1.5 hours drive from me).  Seen him three times in small bars around town.  He is quite a musician, love his tribute the the plight of Native Americans on his CD "My Home Is Gone".  He also loves to seek out other talented musicians and feature them on a CD...a young trumpet player is featured on the CD I mentioned.

GO, Otis   

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Two picture of Otis in a small local bar...


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## hypnos1 (Oct 27, 2017)

Oskari said:


> Surely _pitiful_ must be the word you're looking for. But you're pretty much the definition of hardcore: _hardwire_ + _solid core_ = _hardcore_.
> 
> And there was I thinking you might just be hinting I could be Hugh Hefner's successor lol!! ...(those days are long gone, alas! ).
> 
> Now life revolves around bits of metal and glass...sad or what, mon cher ami?!!! ...(I would have said a bit *safer *at least...but sometimes I wonder!  ).



Your taste in music sure is eclectic/varied, O...but must admit I'm loving those banjos lol!! ...


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 28, 2017)

As I said in previous posts, I found that the 6N1P-E driver (drop in replacement for the 6SN7, with adaptor)  sounds great in the Euforia,  paired with Mullards 6080.  The Chathams 6080 are also a good match, but clearly below the Mullards in one single aspect: refinement.  The Euforia is a difficult amp, many of my favorite tubes can sound a bit "raw" in this one.  It looks like it prefers the 6080s over my beloved  big bottle 6AS7Gs.

 I got for about $20 a pair of NEC (Nippon Electric) 6080s, made in Japan probably in late sixties.  Reading some posts around Head-Fi, they say this tube might be an RCA clone.  Well,  It is not. It has big copper rods, and works very hot, just like the Mullards.  And the sound...a pleasant surprise. Japanese Mullards if you want,  warm and extended in both highs and lows.   Really good tubes...


----------



## Oskari (Oct 28, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Now life revolves around bits of metal and glass...sad or what, mon cher ami?!!!


At least you are not collecting my little ponies (I hope). 

P.S. I'm happy to see that the Otis Taylor video stirred up a little musical debate.


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> In this line, I bought for about $25 a pair of NEC 6080s, (pic) made in Japan probably in late sixties. Reading some posts around Head-Fi, they say this tube might be an RCA clone. Well, It is not. It has big copper rods, and works very hot, just like the Mullards. And the sound...a big surprise. Japanese Mullards if you want, only more extended in both highs and lows. Barely 6 hours of burn in and already fantastic tubes...


Quite interesting those Japanese power tubes. We haven't seen many of them.


----------



## Oskari

Talking about ponies...


_Lake Street Dive: Side Pony_


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> Quite interesting those Japanese power tubes. We haven't seen many of them.


Not surprising that Japanese tubes sound close to British tubes - in the 50's Japanese companies acquired British equipment for tube production.


----------



## Johnnysound

mordy said:


> Not surprising that Japanese tubes sound close to British tubes - in the 50's Japanese companies acquired British equipment for tube production.



Nippon Electric was the very first Japanese company established with foreign investment back in 1899.  Guess who ?  Western Electric...


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Nippon Electric was the very first Japanese company established with foreign investment back in 1899.  Guess who ?  Western Electric...


Very interesting. 
I know that National (Matsushita/Panasonic) made a deal with Philips (that bought Mullard) re tube production in the early 50's, and Hitachi aligned themselves with Raytheon (Hit-Ray brand).


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Very interesting.
> I know that National (Matsu****a/Panasonic) made a deal with Philips (that bought Mullard) re tube production in the early 50's, and Hitachi aligned themselves with Raytheon (Hit-Ray brand).


LOL - Head Fi still censors Matsushiita, but apparently not Shiit equipment (advertising $?)


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> LOL - Head Fi still censors Matsushiita, but apparently not Shiit equipment (advertising $?)


Here is a great Boogie Woogie recording by four great musicians to liven up your day!


----------



## connieflyer

Love "Boogie"


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Love "Boogie"


Stephanie Trick is amazing - here is a dizzying recording from February this year - stride piano:


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> H1 you have apparently taken your Euforia to heights none other have experienced with theirs!
> 
> Are you using the Tesla 4654 with an EL34 adapter, and as drivers or powers? And I wonder how they compare to your other best tubes?


Hi DL,

Some time back you asked me to compare the Foton 6N8S/ 6H8C from the 60's with another variant from the 50's with a different construction:

_Lot of one 6N8S (6H8C) Audiophile Dual Triode Tube
Eqivalents: 6SN7GT, ECC32, 6CC10, 1578.
Produced 1952-57 Foton Tube Factory, Tashkent, Uzbekistan.
Ribber anode version - additional mounting elements, microphonic effect reduced.
Famous sounding - as good as MELZ metal base 6SN7_

I ordered a pair, but after "sju sorger och atta bedrovelser" (ask Oskari what it means) I am still waiting for this pair ordered Aug 8 2017. It has been stuck (lost?) in the US customs since Aug 16. Contacting the USPS and US Customs is absolutely useless - The Post Office says it is in customs and they can't do anything, and Customs don't answer emails or phone calls. Maybe I should contact my local congressman lol......

Today a replacement arrived. 

First impression: *Great* sound with better clarity, definition and better control of the bass, and extended lower frequency response as well. This is the Foton tube to have! 
Sadly the seller's listings disappeared from eBay, but I am sure he is still in business.

Will let you know more after I have burned in the tube....


----------



## Oskari

(Roughly, _15 sorrows_.)


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> (Roughly, _15 sorrows_.)



Literally:

"Seven sorrows and eight disappointments" - I am talking about dealing with governmental organizations. Unfortunately, others have had a lot of trouble with customs here and there.....


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## Johnnysound (Nov 1, 2017)

6H8C  tubes from the fifties are a rarity. Following Mordy, I bought a pair of the absolutely cheapest tubes ever, $ 4.85 a pair (delivered) Fotons.  From the eighties.   Even out of the box, without burn in, these very simple, even “crude” tubes sound really good in the Euforia, very clear, clean, with nice highs and above all truly great bass,  at the same level of the very best 6NS7s around...

And regarding the NEC 6080s, after some 10 hours playing, they sound very similar to the Mullards, maybe a bit deeper in the bass, and extended in the highs.  During the first few hours, the NECs sounded just interesting and no more...but after burning a few more hours, the sound  matured into something really sweet, engaging, and pleasant.  Top class tubes, I am  impressed.

 They  are most probably not a product of the fifties Mullard/Philips tooling bought by Matsush**ita.  The main NEC factory in Tokyo was destroyed in the war,  but before the conflict  they were  a truly Western Electric  joint venture operation, so we can certainly assume that the U.S. company had an important role in the reconstruction of NEC after the war. Both WE and NEC emerged as the most important suppliers of telephone systems in the post war era, with heavy American investment in the japanese company.

The history does not mention electronic tubes at all, but if anything, these NEC 6080s from the sixties were very likely made with Western Electric tooling, not Mullard.  And since WE never made 6080s in the U.S., this one may be it...made in Japan


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> 6H8C  tubes from the fifties are a rarity. Following Mordy, I bought a pair of the absolutely cheapest tubes ever, $ 4.85 a pair (delivered) Fotons.  From the eighties.   Even out of the box, without burn in, these very simple, even “crude” tubes sound really good in the Euforia, very clear, clean, with nice highs and above all truly great bass,  at the same level of the very best 6NS7s around...
> 
> And regarding the NEC 6080s, after some 10 hours or so playing, I no more compare them to the Mullards. Yes, they sound very similar to the great british tubes, but certainly go deeper in the bass, in a very musical way, and  are more extended in the highs.  During the first few hours, the NECs showed  wide bandwidth, extended and  neutral  sound,  interesting and no more than that...but after burning a few more hours, the sound  matured into something really sweet, engaging, pleasant, a joy to hear.  Top class tubes, I am  impressed.
> 
> ...


Hi Johnnysound,

Glad that you like the Fotons. Some people will not believe that such cheap tubes are any good, but their loss is our gain lol....
Finally got a pair of a 1953 variant with "Ribber" anodes (made from 1952-57 in Tashkent) and they are even better sounding than the regular Fotons - paid less than $20 for a pair including shipping. Bass goes deeper, increased clarity and detail and wider sound stage - a top performer.

Re Japanese tubes, many of the 60's tubes seem to be very well made and sound very good. I have a couple pairs of 6SN7GT NEC/Channel Master that I like, and they are inexpensive.


----------



## mordy (Nov 1, 2017)

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> 
> Glad that you like the Fotons. Some people will not believe that such cheap tubes are any good, but their loss is our gain lol....
> Finally got a pair of a 1953 variant with "Ribber" anodes (made from 1952-57 in Tashkent) and they are even better sounding than the regular Fotons - paid less than $20 for a pair including shipping. Bass goes deeper, increased clarity and detail and wider sound stage - a top performer.
> ...


Found the link to the seller fir the Foton Ribber anode tubes:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-1-piece-6N8S-Audio-Triode-Tube-6SN7GT-ECC32-6CC10-NOS-See-Variations/132373825882?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=48501&meid=2c407b29a254435db5d9197d041342f0&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132373825882&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Acee6b824-bf5d-11e7-9b6b-74dbd180089f%7Cparentrq%3A79f397f015f0abc1f8aa1945ffff0cae%7Ciid%3A1

You have to scroll down to the 1952-54 tubes to find them for $9.70 shipped


----------



## mordy (Nov 1, 2017)

connieflyer said:


> take care of yourself PCT,  health first, everything else later


Hi pct and CF,

Here is an absolutely hilarious version of St Loius Blues played by a husband-wife team - Stephanie Trick and husband Paolo Alderighi.

Safe to say that you have never heard such a version of this tune....Brilliand and full of good humor.



And another tune that will make you laugh and gives a new meaning to musical chair....:


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah, just scroll through that link above from Mordy. That seller had done a top notch job of compiling all the 6N8S tubes in one listing - all 8 types including Foton and Melz, and it seems to be from lower price all the way up through the top proclaimed tubes. I got the Melz metal base version identical to his for $25 each, which I think are similar internally as your new favorite one Mordy, but was reviewed even better on other forums. Haven't tried them yet if you know about my location Lol.

Hey @hypnos1 sorry to break this to you publicly, but we've decided to vote you out for 'tampering' with this masterpiece of an amp. Thinking outside the box is unforgiveable and we shall have no part of it... HAhAahh early April Fools. Well at least we're not as restrictive on these things as they seem to be in that 'other' forum. But anyway I was wondering if your Euforia still retains any sockets if you choose to swap other headphones, or if you're up to showing us a few pix?


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Found the link to the seller fir the Foton Ribber anode tubes:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-1-piece-6N8S-Audio-Triode-Tube-6SN7GT-ECC32-6CC10-NOS-See-Variations/132373825882?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=48501&meid=2c407b29a254435db5d9197d041342f0&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132373825882&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Acee6b824-bf5d-11e7-9b6b-74dbd180089f%7Cparentrq%3A79f397f015f0abc1f8aa1945ffff0cae%7Ciid%3A1
> 
> You have to scroll down to the 1952-54 tubes to find them for $9.70 shipped



...I could not resist myself. Free shipping and located in Europe!!


----------



## Icenine2

I just read the review of this and it looks quite good.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Yeah, just scroll through that link above from Mordy. That seller had done a top notch job of compiling all the 6N8S tubes in one listing - all 8 types including Foton and Melz, and it seems to be from lower price all the way up through the top proclaimed tubes. I got the Melz metal base version identical to his for $25 each, which I think are similar internally as your new favorite one Mordy, but was reviewed even better on other forums. Haven't tried them yet if you know about my location Lol.
> 
> Hey @hypnos1 sorry to break this to you publicly, but we've decided to vote you out for 'tampering' with this masterpiece of an amp. Thinking outside the box is unforgiveable and we shall have no part of it... HAhAahh early April Fools. Well at least we're not as restrictive on these things as they seem to be in that 'other' forum. But anyway I was wondering if your Euforia still retains any sockets if you choose to swap other headphones, or if you're up to showing us a few pix?



Hi DL...must admit, I wouldn't blame anyone for "voting me out", lol...my quest to squeeze every last drop out of my system- not just my poor Euforia and T1s - is most certainly NOT for the faint-hearted or those wishing to stay on the right side of F-A and their warranty!!!  ... 

Re. the use of other headphones, even though I've taken my T1s direct to the amp's internal wiring, the socket remains useable, but I'm not sure if running 2 sets at once would cause any real problems....perhaps OK for short periods? But how the Beyers were sounding _before_ surgery, with the jack in place, I have no desire to try any others in any case lol! (I have never heard even the HD800 put out this kind of sound!). As for post-surgery sound, that's a sore point, I'm afraid...after initial success with the VERY tricky job of fashioning the interconnect wires to make direct contact with Hugo2's sockets, they now refuse to co-operate - or, rather, the design of Hugo's RCA internal signal contacts seems to preclude anything other than the normal plug design, and so I have - for the first time! - had to admit defeat ...and I don't have the courage to take this particular (VERY small) DAC apart!!! 

Therefore, I've been going 'cold turkey' this past couple of days, waiting for some darned RCA plugs, and hope that at least using some very nice KLEI 'Pure Harmony' ones (with pure silver connections) will come close to going 'bare'...the difference probably less than 'hardwiring' (as @Oskari would say!) the HP cable anyway, and certainly FAR less than doing same for the interconnects into Euforia lol!! 

Hopefully - depending upon our so-called 'First Class' Royal Mail postal service!! - all will be back working over the weekend, with photo to match!...(didn't take any of the amp's internal surgery I'm afraid, DL...much too scary!!!)...so the saga continues......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...must admit, I wouldn't blame anyone for "voting me out", lol...my quest to squeeze every last drop out of my system- not just my poor Euforia and T1s - is most certainly NOT for the faint-hearted or those wishing to stay on the right side of F-A and their warranty!!!  ...
> 
> Re. the use of other headphones, even though I've taken my T1s direct to the amp's internal wiring, the socket remains useable, but I'm not sure if running 2 sets at once would cause any real problems....perhaps OK for short periods? But how the Beyers were sounding _before_ surgery, with the jack in place, I have no desire to try any others in any case lol! (I have never heard even the HD800 put out this kind of sound!). As for post-surgery sound, that's a sore point, I'm afraid...after initial success with the VERY tricky job of fashioning the interconnect wires to make direct contact with Hugo2's sockets, they now refuse to co-operate - or, rather, the design of Hugo's RCA internal signal contacts seems to preclude anything other than the normal plug design, and so I have - for the first time! - had to admit defeat ...and I don't have the courage to take this particular (VERY small) DAC apart!!!
> 
> ...


All I can say is Good Luck!


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> ...I could not resist myself. Free shipping and located in Europe!!


Hi Tunkejazz,

Please let me know how you like the tubes - I think that you will be pleased. Lycka till! 

BTW, visually they don't look like much - very industrial and with a silk screened Red Army star, and there is very little tube glow. 

The best sounding tubes of this type are supposed to be the Melz metal base with holes in the plates but they are too expensive for me - around $120 for a pair.


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> 
> Please let me know how you like the tubes - I think that you will be pleased. Lycka till!
> 
> ...



Thank you Mordy. I am looking forward to getting them at home! We just bought a house in Stockholm so I think I will leave the ones with metal base and holes in the plates for another life


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...must admit, I wouldn't blame anyone for "voting me out", lol...


I wouldn't go that far. But, obviously, you should work on concision.  [And you should ignore me. ;-]


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> All I can say is Good Luck!



Hi mordy...glad all you say is "Good Luck", and not 'Mad Fool' lol!! ...(which is what I do call myself from time to time!! ). But hopefully, it should in fact be plain sailing now, with the 'proper' RCA plugs here, ready and waiting to be soldered tomorrow. And it won't be a moment too soon - just had to have a music fix last night, so I plugged my original T1s (with stock cable) direct into Hugo2 (which is _supposedly  _the best option!) and had to abort after just 10 mins' listen time!! ...a stark reminder/confirmation of just why I've been 'tinkering' with my system for a while now.
In fact, I hadn't quite realised the full extent of the recent improvements - for me personally at least!
And these go way beyond what the Chord guys would term 'tube amp coloring' lol!...unless such things as much smoother overall sound presentation and volume change/dynamics delivery; more pinpoint separation/positioning of instruments and voices within a more expansive, 3D stage; greater sense of immersion and intimacy...(just for starters)...can be termed 'coloring'!!!

All these goodies - and more! - were present in my Euforia setup even before my latest upgrades/exploits, but have been (fortunately) greatly enhanced by the most recent of them - UPOCC-wired cables and 'hardwiring', of course!...(and anyone who may scoff at such ventures has obviously had no personal experience whatsoever of these tangible 'enhancements' lol! ).

And so, M, I'm now more impatient than ever to get my Euforia back on the rack - I simply can't get myself to plug the cans into Hugo ever again, alas...it shall remain purely as a truly wonderful *DAC!!* 

Will hopefully have good news _very_ soon...CHEERS!......(now where did I put that darned soldering iron?!  )...


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> I wouldn't go that far. *But, obviously, you should work on concision.*  [And you should ignore me. ;-]



Me, O?...you _know_ that just ain't gonna happen lol!!...(see my last post, if you don't believe me! )....despite my admiration for your own talents in this area!!! ...

Now let me get to my bed...please!...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...CHEERS!...and g'night.....CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Nov 4, 2017)

—


----------



## pctazhp

Glad to see old friends continue to check in here. Continuing health issues have kept me away and I wasn't able to attend our local meet 2 weeks ago. But things are getting better.

My exciting news is I now have brand new Gumby DAC and am loving it. I'm not a real cable guy, but in celebration of Gumby I have ordered an update from my Morrow Audio MA3 RCA interconnects to 1-meter MA5 interconnects to run from Gumby to Euforia, mainly because of Gumby's larger form factor on my desktop. Probably won't have new interconnects for 30 to 40 days, but will report. Cheers to all))))


----------



## mordy

pctazhp said:


> Glad to see old friends continue to check in here. Continuing health issues have kept me away and I wasn't able to attend our local meet 2 weeks ago. But things are getting better.
> 
> My exciting news is I now have brand new Gumby DAC and am loving it. I'm not a real cable guy, but in celebration of Gumby I have ordered an update from my Morrow Audio MA3 RCA interconnects to 1-meter MA5 interconnects to run from Gumby to Euforia, mainly because of Gumby's larger form factor on my desktop. Probably won't have new interconnects for 30 to 40 days, but will report. Cheers to all))))


Happy to hear you feel better!


----------



## connieflyer

PCT I am glad to see you back here, we missed your lively wit! Good to hear you have the new Gumby in hand and am sure you will like it. The Bimby was no slouch, either, are you putting the Bimby for sale? @hypnos1, I see no problem with the experimentation with the Euforia.  It was your initial experimenting that first brought us the Elise, and the upgrades to the Euforia to begin with, so we owe you a debt of gratitude for your efforts.  If you were recommending others to follow in your footsteps, could be different, but you are showing us what can be done with the gear we have on hand.  And the other area's like the El11 and El12Spez tubes have really helped to move this amp up the ladder of success.  So thank you Father of our amps!


----------



## myphone

pctazhp, welcome back. Good to hear you get better.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 5, 2017)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...glad all you say is "Good Luck", and not 'Mad Fool' lol!! ...(which is what I do call myself from time to time!! ). But hopefully, it should in fact be plain sailing now, with the 'proper' RCA plugs here, ready and waiting to be soldered tomorrow. And it won't be a moment too soon - just had to have a music fix last night, so I plugged my original T1s (with stock cable) direct into Hugo2 (which is _supposedly  _the best option!) and had to abort after just 10 mins' listen time!! ...a stark reminder/confirmation of just why I've been 'tinkering' with my system for a while now.
> In fact, I hadn't quite realised the full extent of the recent improvements - for me personally at least!
> And these go way beyond what the Chord guys would term 'tube amp coloring' lol!...unless such things as much smoother overall sound presentation and volume change/dynamics delivery; more pinpoint separation/positioning of instruments and voices within a more expansive, 3D stage; greater sense of immersion and intimacy...(just for starters)...can be termed 'coloring'!!!
> ...



I'd say that paints a mighty strong picture of the prowess of the Euforia as a headphone amp. I've personally been graced with trying the master class Hugo 2 twice, and each time I was completely amazed at the kind of fidelity / performance with several headphones just directly out of the Hugo 2, even on the same day as trying other top rigs including the so-called Orpheus 2, DAVE, and _many _other multi-thousands dollar rigs. But your saying _(a well set up)_ Euforia sounds so much better that you couldn't even stand the Hugo 2 amped directly for more than 10 minutes really says something about this amps' potential.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> PCT I am glad to see you back here, we missed your lively wit! Good to hear you have the new Gumby in hand and am sure you will like it. The Bimby was no slouch, either, are you putting the Bimby for sale? @hypnos1, I see no problem with the experimentation with the Euforia.  It was your initial experimenting that first brought us the Elise, and the upgrades to the Euforia to begin with, so we owe you a debt of gratitude for your efforts.  If you were recommending others to follow in your footsteps, could be different, but you are showing us what can be done with the gear we have on hand.  And the other area's like the El11 and El12Spez tubes have really helped to move this amp up the ladder of success.  So thank you Father of our amps!



Thanks so much CF. First, let me say I am comparing my older Bimby which remains Schiit's Gen 2 USB. I really don't know how much of the improvement I'm hearing is due to the more sophisticated design of Gumby or how much is due to the new Schiit USB Gen 5 implementation on Gumby. I really don't care because Gumby is now MY DAC!!!

Between my Bimby and Gumby the later is just far more natural, organic and enticing. Have to be careful when I start listening to it as it is truly captivating. Wonderful combination with Euforia EL11/EL12-Spez.  It just gets everything right. Wonderful soundstage, imagine, natural vocals, highly musical. Really I am enjoying listening so much now.

I have no reason to keep Bimby. But right now I continue to have to be careful. I probably won't be able to drive myself at least for 3 more weeks, so I can't take on an extra task of having to ship Bimby if someone wants it. But that will change.  

Again thanks so much for your thoughts and as always your wonderful friendship )))


----------



## connieflyer

Always good to hear from you PCT, we sure have been down a long and winding road together,  and now you see what I mean about the Gumby.  It is truly worth the cost to bring the Euforia up even higher.  Just to reassure myself, I put my PSAudio new wave dac back in the loop yesterday.  It was still a good sound, but after a bit, it did sound a little warmer and less detailed. T his morning, back with the Gumby and all is well with the music again.  Next step is to get a Draug v2 headphone cable, I am sold on this one.  It took my Senn 800 up a little more. Another worthwhile investment.  Price to performance and value is very high on this one.  This is one I bought, I had been in touch another headfi-er and since he had a Draug 2 was interested in his opinion.  He confirmed what he heard, and on his recommendation and what I have read, purchased one of these,  http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...00-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800 . Workmanship is crazy good,  he has one person that does all the braiding and he is good at what he does.  We may not be able to keep pace with @hypnos1, but we can get close!


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 5, 2017)

Johnnysound said:


> —



Hi J...looks like your post disappeared again - anything to do with your 'edit' lol?!!

Anyway, thanks for your support of my latest (radical!) experimentation and agree with your decision not to 'dare' such extreme measures - I would never even consider advising anyone to do surgery inside their amps...unless 100% confident in their DIY amp skills (especially working with fine solid silver wires, which snap _only too easily lol!!!_ ) and prepared to possibly invalidate their warranty. But I have to say the gains, if all goes well, are quite substantial!! ...more on that below...



pctazhp said:


> Glad to see old friends continue to check in here. Continuing health issues have kept me away and I wasn't able to attend our local meet 2 weeks ago. But things are getting better.
> 
> My exciting news is I now have brand new Gumby DAC and am loving it. I'm not a real cable guy, but in celebration of Gumby I have ordered an update from my Morrow Audio MA3 RCA interconnects to 1-meter MA5 interconnects to run from Gumby to Euforia, mainly because of Gumby's larger form factor on my desktop. Probably won't have new interconnects for 30 to 40 days, but will report. Cheers to all))))



Sorry you weren't able to make that meet, pct, but really glad to hear things are moving in the right direction for you health-wise...keep it up!!  Glad also you're still loving your Gumby.



DecentLevi said:


> I'd say that paints a mighty strong picture of the prowess of the Euforia as a headphone amp. I've personally been graced with trying the master class Hugo 2 twice, and each time I was completely amazed at the kind of fidelity / performance with several headphones just directly out of the Hugo 2, even on the same day as trying other top rigs including the so-called Orpheus 2, DAVE, and _many _other multi-thousands dollar rigs. But your saying _(a well set up)_ Euforia sounds so much better that you couldn't even stand the Hugo 2 amped directly for more than 10 minutes really says something about this amps' potential.



Yes indeed DL...as a standalone _trans_portable DAC/AMP (but needing a player also...) the Hugo2 is pretty amazing, and probably the very best such animal out there lol! But *no match* for what Euforia is capable of outputting..._especially_ now!!...(see below...).



connieflyer said:


> Always good to hear from you PCT, we sure have been down a long and winding road together,  and now you see what I mean about the Gumby.  It is truly worth the cost to bring the Euforia up even higher.  Just to reassure myself, I put my PSAudio new wave dac back in the loop yesterday.  It was still a good sound, but after a bit, it did sound a little warmer and less detailed. T his morning, back with the Gumby and all is well with the music again.  Next step is to get a Draug v2 headphone cable, I am sold on this one.  It took my Senn 800 up a little more. Another worthwhile investment.  Price to performance and value is very high on this one.  This is one I bought, I had been in touch another headfi-er and since he had a Draug 2 was interested in his opinion.  He confirmed what he heard, and on his recommendation and what I have read, purchased one of these,  http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...00-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800 . Workmanship is crazy good,  he has one person that does all the braiding and he is good at what he does.  We may not be able to keep pace with @hypnos1, but we can get close!



Hi cf...glad to hear you too are enjoying the higher levels of performance Euforia is capable of, given upgrades elsewhere in the system. And I'm sure you're catching me up fast, lol!! ... Now all you've gotta do is brush up on your soldering skills, get some Neotech cable and wire (plus some KLEI [Eichman] silver RCA plugs) - as below, and kiss goodbye to your warranty by acquainting yourself with Euforia's innards!...(On second thoughts, save yourself a whole pile of angst and skip the internal surgery part!!! ).


Anyway, with the help of @mordy 's good luck wishes, plus a whole heap of understanding from my better half (the air has been somewhat blue this week - ref. snapping silver wires!!), I'm glad - nay *relieved!* - to say all is now well and I'm a VERY happy chappie once more. In deference to @Oskari 's skills (ponies??!!! ), I shall _try_ to be concise in my summation lol! 

Basically, guys, all the qualities of silver and copper UPOCC wire that I've already mentioned before are taken to another level - along with Euforia, of course! - by doing the dastardly deed and taking both the interconnects _and_ headphone cable direct to the amp's internal wiring. I still can't quite believe the degree of improvement in all the areas mentioned previously : clarity; dynamics; detail/resolution; timbre; focus/imaging; even more enhanced/spatial soundstage...all delivered with impeccable control, precision and balance across the entire frequency range, and without sounding 'clinical' in presentation whatsoever - the opposite, in fact...immersive, embracing, effortless, natural/'organic'...truly wonderful.

And so at the very least, I can only repeat my advice to practice soldering skills - or find a friend who has them! - and make up your own interconnects and headphone cables using Neotech cable and 'hook up' wire...at a fraction of the cost of commercial products! This UPOCC stuff has taken me totally by surprise...(if you hadn't already noticed lol!! )...and lives up to all the claims made by those who have bottomless wallets and can afford the likes of cleareraudio.com's topflight OCC silver Optimus interconnects at *£895* for a half metre, using_ less_ wire than my own DIY cables at about £250!...both using the same (expensive!) RCA plugs :  just a couple of photos for y'all...CHEERS!...CJ


  

Top left - interconnect cable's wires clamped onto one of KLEI (Eichmann) Pure Silver Harmony's connections... I always try to get metal-to-metal contact before soldering lol 

Apologies for the poor photos of setup, but I like the absence of HP jack, and the sight of those interconnects that show they mean business!!

Pictures of said Neotech cable...I showed recently the separate 'hook up' wires I used for the headphone cable...    :



The 'XLR' version that has 3 lots of 3-wired connectors - I joined red and black for signal, and added silver wire to the clear for return (both also had a UPOCC copper wire added...that the £895 cable doesn't possess!!


----------



## connieflyer

A nice review on headphonics for the Euforia
https://headfonics.com/2017/10/feliks-audio-euforia-review/


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## Tunkejazz

connieflyer said:


> A nice review on headphonics for the Euforia
> https://headfonics.com/2017/10/feliks-audio-euforia-review/



Nice review. I partly disagree about the bass assessment though


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## connieflyer (Nov 7, 2017)

Same here I think it has plenty of bass. It may not be as thunderous as some of them but it's clear concise and very present if it's in the music it's in there. Also the Sound Stage can be increased by the type of tubes that you use. The el11 and el12 Spezial give a much broader sound stage very open. Other than that think it's a pretty good review.


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## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Same here I think it has plenty of bass. It may not be as thunderous as some of them but it's clear concise and very present if it's in the music it's in there. Also the Sound Stage can be increased by the type of tubes that you use. The el11 and el12 Spezial give a much broader sound stage very open. Other than that think it's a pretty good review.



I very much agree.


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## connieflyer

As you should! The word has come from on high!


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> In deference to @Oskari 's skills (ponies??!!! ), I shall _try_ to be concise in my summation lol!


How would you rate your success?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Same here I think it has plenty of bass. It may not be as thunderous as some of them but it's clear concise and very present if it's in the music it's in there. Also the Sound Stage can be increased by the type of tubes that you use. The el11 and el12 Spezial give a much broader sound stage very open. Other than that think it's a pretty good review.



Spot on, cf...such reviews are always subject to many different constraints of course, but on the whole it is indeed a very positive endorsement of Euforia's (and F-A's) qualities. 

Over this past year, I personally have seen any hint of the mentioned 'weak links' gradually ease away with each and every upgrade to the rest of my system - and that's with retaining the _same_ tube combo, which needs no repetition here methinks lol!! 

As you - and others - intimate, bass may well not be the _fullest_ out there, but more than makes up for it in its _quality_...which I think the reviewer basically agrees with in the end, and which I myself think is FAR more important!! However, I must qualify this statement re. _quantity_ after my recent (end game??!!) entry into _super_ cable territory...ie. with more hours now on the interconnects (KLEI recommend 100+hrs just for their silver RCA plugs alone!!) and HP cable, any more bass would be almost suicidal...especially with Sade's 'Soldier of Love' album assaulting the ears! Not to mention Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra's amazing version of 'Fanfare for the Common Man'...that famous intro now sends even more shivers up and down my spine! 

And more shivers still, from the crescendo passages in Rossini's 'William Tell Overture' (Carlo Maria Guilini/Philharmonia Orchestra), and the finale's solo trumpet followed by more brass...mind blowing! 
Bass detail _and_ quantity galore from all these examples, along with many others already.... And as if not to be outdone, mids detail and tonal range are also like never before...and as for the upper frequencies, all I can say is - superb just doesn't cover it. 

And the icing on the cake is that other 'weak link' mentioned...soundstage/imaging. Again - as you say, cf - these are already addressed in good measure by the EL11/EL12 Spezial combo, but now taken to much greater heights courtesy of those (solid!) UPOCC silver and copper wires. My T1s are now outperforming  the Senn HD800 in these areas by an even bigger margin - reversing the situation prior to my latest exploits lol. 

Another bonus is regarding vocals - at first I thought my new cables might just be pushing voice very slightly back, but after more test pieces it became clear that my system was in fact delivering a more _accurate_ reproduction of how the vocals were actually engineered in the first place...some almost 'in your face', others more recessed...and thus devoid of any system 'influence' lol!

And so, in short, my own Euforia is now almost a totally different animal to the early days....but obviously, my other upgrades (not least of which is Hugo2!) have all contributed greatly to this level of performance, and for which I regard myself as truly fortunate. I can only hope that perhaps my journey might encourage others to keep pushing the boundaries - wallets and loved ones permitting lol! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> How would you rate your success?



Hmmmm, O, my dear friend, methinks I've just answered that question...BIG TIME lol!!!  ...


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## myphone (Nov 12, 2017)

Rolled three different 5998 tubes today: 1957 (left), 1963 (middle) and 1958 clear top (Right). They have different internal structures.

1958 clear top is clearly better than the other 2 versions: more palpable, richer tone, better resolution and clearer presentation.

Have not noticed major sonic difference between the 1957 and 1963 versions, even though internal structures are very different.


----------



## Tunkejazz

@mordy, I finally got those "ribbon" Foton's that you have recommended.
They are very good! I don't have a pair of RCA 6AS7G to test your combo, but with
a pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G the sound is quite good.

The extension on both ends of the spectrum is remarkable, and it makes the sound very vibrant (is that the right word?  )
I would like to try them with some other power tubes before I go on with my rambling 


Thank you for the heads up!

PS: yes, I should clean the dust ....


----------



## Tunkejazz

myphone said:


> Rolled three different 5998 tubes today: 1957 (left), 1963 (middle) and 1958 clear top (Right). They have different internal structures.
> 
> 1958 clear top is clearly better than the other 2 versions: more palpable, richer tone, better resolution and clearer presentation.
> 
> Have not noticed major sonic difference between the 1957 and 1963 versions, even though internal structures are very different.



What a luxury! I could only afford one pair


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## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> @mordy, I finally got those "ribbon" Foton's that you have recommended.
> They are very good! I don't have a pair of RCA 6AS7G to test your combo, but with
> a pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G the sound is quite good.
> 
> ...


Hi tunkejazz,

Glad you like the Foton tubes - it is a real sleeper and nobody would believe that such an inexpensive tube can sound so good! And it will sound even better with some break in time.
I think the what the seller wanted to say is "ribbed" anode plates, but he wrote "ribber".

The even less expensive Foton is also good, but these ribbed ones are a step above, with very good bass extension, midrange and highs, and a wide sound stage. And a very lively presentation, as you write.

The reason I mentioned the RCA 6AS7G is because they can also be found at inexpensive prices and they have very good synergy with the Fotons, in other words a great sounding budget combination. I am sure the TS tubes are just as good or better.
I only have one TS tube, but I have a pair of Chatham 6AS7G which should be the same or similar.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys..................................*A QUICK UPDATE FROM LUKASZ Re. THE 2018 EUFORIA*.............

To offset (slightly!) the recent price increase, F-A have brought forward a couple of extra features for the 2018 model : 

1. A new 'crossfeed' circuit - switchable on/off.
2. 'Soft Mute' function at on and off...reduces stress on components/tubes/headphones, of course...(an extremely good feature IMHO! ).

Elise also will have #2, plus an upgraded transformer...

Here's wishing you all continued enjoyment of your Euforias...mine continues to just keep growing lol! ....CHEERS!....


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## connieflyer

That won't help much with the price increase, number two is a nice feature, crossfeed is available with most music players that I have used. Don't use it though. With the price they are asking now, next year they had better come up with some better features, they are playing in the big leagues now.  Tube delete should be a definate option, while the tubes they use are good, in this price realm, other tubes are warranted.  Perhaps they could offer a few top line tubes as an option. Also more inputs and outputs, the competition is going to get tougher, and they need more features, to compete IMHO of course.


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## SnapperMusicFan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys..................................*A QUICK UPDATE FROM LUKASZ Re. THE 2018 EUFORIA*.............
> 
> To offset (slightly!) the recent price increase, F-A have brought forward a couple of extra features for the 2018 model :
> 
> ...


Hi Hypnos1, fellow head-fier from Suffolk, I have a 2018 Euforia on order should be on its way from Lukasz, any day soon....
Will let you know how she sounds when she arrives, have lots of interesting tubes to try too from my Elise.


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> That won't help much with the price increase, number two is a nice feature, crossfeed is available with most music players that I have used. Don't use it though. With the price they are asking now, next year they had better come up with some better features, they are playing in the big leagues now.  Tube delete should be a definate option, while the tubes they use are good, in this price realm, other tubes are warranted.  Perhaps they could offer a few top line tubes as an option. Also more inputs and outputs, the competition is going to get tougher, and they need more features, to compete IMHO of course.


HI CF,

You saved me from writing a post - I agree with you completely. I would really like to know how the price increases have affected their sales volume.......


----------



## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi Hypnos1, fellow head-fier from Suffolk, I have a 2018 Euforia on order should be on its way from Lukasz, any day soon....
> Will let you know how she sounds when she arrives, have lots of interesting tubes to try too from my Elise.



Hi SMF...yet another tube (valve!!) lover from darkest Suffolk...a hearty welcome to you. 

It's nice to see that perhaps not quite all is lost with Euforia sales, after the recent price hike lol ....congratulations!... Nice too, that you are coming from Elise, and with a good selection of tubes (from the sound of it! ). It is, of course, obligatory that you do indeed let us know your findings ASAP...but you know by now that good burn-in will make all the difference! Mind you, the moment I first heard my own (prototype) amp, I knew she was something special and in a different class to Elise...and my progressive system upgrades ever since have taken her to a level that IMHO justifies (almost!!) the higher price. This amp cries out for high-end partners...not least being the very best cables one can afford, preferably UPOCC silver (and copper, perhaps)-based ones, but which demand either very deep pockets or minimal soldering skills lol......ENJOY!!...CJ

ps. I certainly hear you @connieflyer and @mordy...in many ways a shot in the foot re. the price rise and, no doubt, especially in relation to our own position here in head-fi forum land, alas! 

As mentioned previously, one can only hope that providing folks with the opportunity to sample her charms in the showroom before committing to purchase _might_ just work for F-A...depending on the competition nearby lol!!  Extra features would certainly have been nice, but Euforia does already possess a good few of those, and much will probably depend on whether other manufacturers are prepared to swallow inevitable cost increases, or not! And anything that would require a fair bit of work changing the chassis brings its own problems and extra cost, of course.

It remains to be seen just how Euforia will sit in the product line (at its new price)...especially alongside F-A's projected flagship next year (which will have more bells and whistles no doubt, but at a price I daren't even imagine just yet!!). 

I still believe most of us have been benefiting from our wonderful amps at the expense of the Feliks-Audio family for a long while now, and I can only hope and pray that their new business model brings them all the rewards they so heartily deserve....we here most certainly have been... *THE LUCKY ONES!!*...Cheers to you all....


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> *THE LUCKY ONES!!*...



The *LUCKY ONES* indeed!  The *LUCKIEST* ones were the ones who bought in at the very start of the Elise production, and got that "now hard to believe, low low introductory price".  

Interesting pair of new features FA went with for 2018, I think the ability to easily outboard heater voltage(s) and a small fan for when you use the internal Transformer for heater voltages...would have been what I would have wished for. 

Cheers, and Hang in there, everyone!


.


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## SnapperMusicFan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi SMF...yet another tube (valve!!) lover from darkest Suffolk...a hearty welcome to you.
> 
> It's nice to see that perhaps not quite all is lost with Euforia sales, after the recent price hike lol ....congratulations!... Nice too, that you are coming from Elise, and with a good selection of tubes (from the sound of it! ). It is, of course, obligatory that you do indeed let us know your findings ASAP...but you know by now that good burn-in will make all the difference! Mind you, the moment I first heard my own (prototype) amp, I knew she was something special and in a different class to Elise...and my progressive system upgrades ever since have taken her to a level that IMHO justifies (almost!!) the higher price. This amp cries out for high-end partners...not least being the very best cables one can afford, preferably UPOCC silver (and copper, perhaps)-based ones, but which demand either very deep pockets or minimal soldering skills lol......ENJOY!!...CJ
> 
> ...



Hi Hypnos1,

Many thanks for the warm welcome...

Yes I will give an update on the Euphoria when she arrives, how long would you say the burn in takes to sound her best? I've had my Elise since May, and the longer It gets used the better the sound that comes 
out. I'm listening with some Tung sol 7236 power tubes - US Navy, that sound really 3d and some Sylvania 6SN7W drivers from 1943. My favourite drivers of the moment are Tungsol 6F8G's or Fotons.

Going to be really cool to hear the difference between the two amps, my Bayer T1 Gen 2's are truly burned in now so really looking forward to the sound difference.

I still think the sound out on the Elise is something really special, I'm not going to sell her, she is going to run the system in my studio through a Quad 306 and a pair of Dynaudio Emit 10's.

I have the new USB 5 module arriving next week for my Bimby, so should have that fitted before Euforia arrives, lots to look forward too.


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## Johnnysound (Nov 19, 2017)

Tunkejazz said:


> Nice review. I partly disagree about the bass assessment though



Yes, nice review, and I also disagree about the bass impressions. The Euforia is capable of VERY deep and powerful bass, depending on tubes.  The amp is not limited in its bass rendition, being a wide bandwidth design...


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## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi Hypnos1,
> 
> Many thanks for the warm welcome...
> 
> ...



Hi SMF...any sign of your Euforia yet? If so, I hope all is well. As for burn-in time, so much depends on just how much tube rolling one does - is it the tubes, or the amp that brings the most changes, for example lol?!!...especially with NOS tubes, or those like the EL family that really do need plenty of time to give of their best! And then there's the added complication of upgrades/changes in any other part of the system, of course...
However, I'm not alone in believing that Euforia herself does indeed continue to improve WAY past the 100 hrs mark, despite the 'brain burn-in factor'!! 

Good idea to use Elise in that way...I myself was very impressed with her performance as pre-amp to my Vincent SV121 amp and Dynaudios 

Other guys here are over the moon with the USB Gen 5 upgrade, so you should certainly have plenty to look forward to...if you're not already up there in the clouds lol!! ...so please keep us informed as to progress...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hi guys...just a quick(?!) update on where I'm at after my rather radical exploits at breaking warranties...all in the name of pushing boundaries and discovering equipment's true potential...of course, lol!! 

Prior to my last heresy - more on that later - taking my new UPOCC silver and copper-wired ICs and (DIY) T1 headphone cable direct to the amp's wiring brought about some of the biggest improvements in sound I have ever encountered..*.in every department you can name.* To the degree where Euforia seems like a totally different amp...and certainly in another league entirely. And aided to no small degree by the 'transformed' Beyers, along with elevation of the EL11/EL12 Spezial combo's performance way beyond anything my best 6SN7(7N7)/6AS7G tubes were capable of, let alone a good few others many of us found to outperform stock configuration.

As if this wasn't enough of a surprise/shock, my disappointment with the RCA line out sockets (and severely restricted housing!) of the Hugo2 DAC/AMP finally pushed me over the edge and tempted me to play fire with _its_ warranty also...so inside I went!! And given the much superior component used for HP out, I used its contacts for extension UPOCC wires direct also to the interconnects... but only because there's no conventional op-amp output stage - the power coming direct from the FPGA chip, with output level controlled the same as line out (plus testing on an old amp first!!!). Result?...Yet more surprise/shock - another notch up in overall performance...unbelievable!

Obviously, these particular warranty-breaking measures are only for the foolhardy such as myself, and can carry heaps of risk...but the rewards have been far beyond my expectations, and have at least proved beyond doubt that despite the stellar performance of an 'unadulterated' Euforia, it can indeed be taken to even (considerably) greater heights by being 'unconventional', as well as taking the obvious steps of upgrading mains power supply/power cords/DAC/interconnects/headphones (including cable!). At each stage, Euforia (and the EL tubes!) will match the quality of the upgrade - so no penny-pinching _please_ lol! ...(F-A are gonna have to work miracles with their (probably) 2A3-based flagship next year to beat what is now coming from my T1s lol! ).

CHEERS! to all you LUCKY ONES, and keep enjoying Euforia's delights...whether sensible, or somewhat foolhardy!! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hi, hypnos1, have been following your exploits with much interest. Every time I think I may one up you, you do some more cutting, so I have decided the only way to make more direct connection than those you have done, will be for me to run silver wire directly from my eardrums, to the output taps on the trans! Hope this works, as I will have to do the surgery to my ears will looking in the mirror, this could present a problem as everything is reversed!  Wish me luck!


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## connieflyer

And to Snappermusicfan, welcome to our humble group.  As for burn-in, like hypnos1 said, so many variables, so just enjoy the journey.  I have unit 005 and it is still improving as the hours mount up on it.  I went from coax to the usb gen 5 on my Gugnir and it has made a big difference.  Another member, here has just got his Gungnir Multi-bit, Pct moved up from another Schiit and he really is enjoying the upgrade as well.  You have a very enjoyable journey ahead, don't rush to far along to start, enjoy the changes.  Have fun


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi, hypnos1, have been following your exploits with much interest. Every time I think I may one up you, you do some more cutting, so I have decided the only way to make more direct connection than those you have done, will be for me to run silver wire directly from my eardrums, to the output taps on the trans! Hope this works, as I will have to do the surgery to my ears will looking in the mirror, this could present a problem as everything is reversed!  Wish me luck!



Hey cf, eardrums?...am already working on direct to the _brain_ (I know, _what_ brain lol?!!) cells themselves...sorry!! ...Cheers, and g'night! zzzzzzzzz....


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## connieflyer

Well, I thought, that connecting to my eardrums, would be difficult, but connecting to my brain, would require MICRO surgery, and I would not be able to see something that small in my mirror!


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## connieflyer

Well, even though I could not connect directly to my micro brain, my neighbor offered to do it for free.  Part way through, I asked him when I was going to get something for pain, and he said that was extra! Bummer~!


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## DecentLevi (Dec 9, 2017)

Well H1, while I applaud your forays deep into uncharted territories of what's possible with a modest tube amp and have no doubt it must be reaching an unprecedented performance level, I for one am in the camp of scaling with bigger amps in order to get that kind of performance - I would prefer to spend more, even much more for a higher calliber amp so I can get that kind of performance with every headphone I connect it to (providing there's synergy). I like to roll headphones often for reasons of comfort, sound signature change, isolation, etc. Though I would be honored to hear your special amp someday.


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## SnapperMusicFan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi SMF...any sign of your Euforia yet? If so, I hope all is well. As for burn-in time, so much depends on just how much tube rolling one does - is it the tubes, or the amp that brings the most changes, for example lol?!!...especially with NOS tubes, or those like the EL family that really do need plenty of time to give of their best! And then there's the added complication of upgrades/changes in any other part of the system, of course...
> However, I'm not alone in believing that Euforia herself does indeed continue to improve WAY past the 100 hrs mark, despite the 'brain burn-in factor'!!
> 
> Good idea to use Elise in that way...I myself was very impressed with her performance as pre-amp to my Vincent SV121 amp and Dynaudios
> ...


Hello H1
Euforia is installed up and running, have left her a good while to burn in and she is beginning to show signs of brilliance, she sounds fab with either Ken-rad or Tung-sol 6f8g’s and a pair of Chatham tunsol 6080wb’s have a lot more tubes to try in her but at the moment I’m trying to keep tube rolling to a minimum ang get to grips with her refined and transparent sound. Her ability to produce the sound of the female voice is something else, Elise was good with voices, but Euforia really is transparent. She looks good too....


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, even though I could not connect directly to my micro brain, my neighbor offered to do it for free.  Part way through, I asked him when I was going to get something for pain, and he said that was extra! Bummer~!



Hey cf...*NO PAIN, NO GAIN, *my dear friend...so keep up the good work lol!!  ...



DecentLevi said:


> Well H1, while I applaud your forays deep into uncharted territories of what's possible with a modest tube amp and have no doubt it must be reaching an unprecedented performance level, I for one am in the camp of scaling with bigger amps in order to get that kind of performance - I would prefer to spend more, even much more for a higher calliber amp so I can get that kind of performance with every headphone I connect it to (providing there's synergy). I like to roll headphones often for reasons of comfort, sound signature change, isolation, etc. Though I would be honored to hear your special amp someday.



Thanks DL...I hear you re. my somewhat drastic measures in the direct-wiring area lol...rather limiting, to be sure, and possibly risky re. the warranty!! But you know I love to push equipment to its full potential...and it's all been worthwhile, even if only to savour the excitement that comes from wholly unexpected (in the main!) surprises - from Euforia herself, the EL tubes and my T1s .
I also hear you re. going for a 'summit-fi' amp, BUT...in order to do such an animal full justice, one would still need to match it with at least the kind of ancillary equipment I now possess, including some really top notch (and VERY expensive, if not able to DIY!) cables....and thus the final figure climbs very steeply indeed lol! 

So it will therefore be _especially_ interesting to discover just how my system compares to F-A's next flagship amp..complete with all those connectors I've so come to hate!!! (The degree to which even good quality ones throttle final performance continues to astound me - but no longer surprises me, now that I have experienced the superiority of UPOCC silver wire over 'ordinary' pure silver even...gold-plated brass or copper connectors, complete with solder joints, are NO MATCH whatsoever lol!!...(although compulsory for most folks, unfortunately!).

ps. I do indeed wish folks could easily come and either totally agree...or _dis_agree with my rantings lol!! ...anyone perfected a teleporter yet?!...CHEERS!...




SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hello H1
> Euforia is installed up and running, have left her a good while to burn in and she is beginning to show signs of brilliance, she sounds fab with either Ken-rad or Tung-sol 6f8g’s and a pair of Chatham tunsol 6080wb’s have a lot more tubes to try in her but at the moment I’m trying to keep tube rolling to a minimum ang get to grips with her refined and transparent sound. Her ability to produce the sound of the female voice is something else, Elise was good with voices, but Euforia really is transparent. She looks good too....



Congrats on being so patient SMF...few of us have managed that feat methinks!!  But you would certainly have been treated to a wonderful introduction to her charms...of which there are many lol! The ability to reproduce faithfully a wide range of female voices is indeed a very good indicator of an amp's potential, and still surprises me as I revisit some of my favourites of many years past...and never realised _just_ what fabulous voices they had!!...truly enchanting...

Fabulous photos too...keep 'em coming!...(but as cf said - and you're obviously complying lol! - take your time ...and ENJOY!!...).


----------



## connieflyer




----------



## hypnos1

Hi Guys...

As per our colleagues in Elise land....................*A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.........CHEERS!*....CJ 

Despite things going a bit quiet recently, I hope all you lucky Euforia owners are still enjoying her charms to the full...and if not, _why_ not, pray tell?!! 

My own excuse is a rather nasty 'flu-like virus that has not only blighted Christmas this year, alas, but worse, has already meant a whole week without my own Euforia fix...and is making me even grumpier still lol! . Ah well, I gain comfort from the joys to come when I can finally get those cans back over the ears...hopefully _very_ soon lol!! 

And my very best wishes for @pctazhp to also experience the same joy, as hopefully he makes a speedy recovery...hang in there, P!


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry to hear you still have that flu bug, that can really be debilitating. I came down with a cold 2 or 3 days ago and now we've got 6 in of snow and more on the way all day so not looking forward to getting all that snow shovel out. Hope you get rid of your bug soon I think you're the reason that everybody else in the world has it!
My thoughts also go out to PCT as I'm sure especially in this time of year it makes it even harder to be this under the weather, and that would be an understatement, get well PCT we need you back here. A joyous day for everyone let's hope the new year brings better for all


----------



## aqsw

Merry xmas to all. Enjoying my Euforia today as it is -29 C. I am bundled up in a blankey on my recliner enjoying  xmas with my hp setup.


----------



## mordy

Hi hypnos1,

Came across something about an amp that seems to have a similar configuration to the Elise/Euforia in that the tubes are wired in parallel and only one half of the tube is used of the dual triode.
The comment was that it is a good idea to switch the tubes every now and then so that each triode is used evenly.
Is there any merit to this?


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hi guys,
has anyone tried using a E88CC to 6SN7 adapter with euforia? 
I have a bunch of 6N23P around and also 6N6P-I that I could consider trying as driver tubes.
Not sure the latter would work. I would have standard 6080 or 6S7G as power tubes.

Happy new year!


----------



## mordy

Happy new year![/QUOTE]
Hi Tj,

I have done it, and it works. The only problem I had is that some tubes of the 6DJ8 family would cause a hum.


----------



## Tunkejazz

[/QUOTE]
Hi Tj,

I have done it, and it works. The only problem I had is that some tubes of the 6DJ8 family would cause a hum.[/QUOTE]

Thank you @mordy!


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi hypnos1,
> 
> Came across something about an amp that seems to have a similar configuration to the Elise/Euforia in that the tubes are wired in parallel and only one half of the tube is used of the dual triode.
> The comment was that it is a good idea to switch the tubes every now and then so that each triode is used evenly.
> Is there any merit to this?



Hi mordy...a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you, and all our fellow Euforia (and Elise!) owners. I hope y'all managed to squeeze  at least a little 'magic' listening time inbetween the festivities lol! 

Unfortunately, my own Yuletide disappeared in the fog of an unbelievable dose of...CHICKEN POX...and not the initially thought 'flu-like cold...What??!!! 67 years evading the nasty bug, and (somehow!) I catch it right on Christmas...too cruel!...not to mention over ten days of no Euforia fix - even _more_ cruel!! . Still, that old adage "absence makes the heart grow fonder" has never been truer - the last couple of days' return to nirvana has been truly wonderful...I'd almost forgotten just how good my system now sounds...(I wasn't imagining it after all lol!! ).

Re. your question, m, the way our tubes' sockets are wired, both of the grids, cathodes and anodes are linked, and so will therefore be sharing the load...so I personally can't see how only one half of the tube would be used in our own case. And therefore no need to switch tubes IMHO...Hope I'm right lol......CHEERS!


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you, and all our fellow Euforia (and Elise!) owners. I hope y'all managed to squeeze  at least a little 'magic' listening time inbetween the festivities lol!
> 
> Unfortunately, my own Yuletide disappeared in the fog of an unbelievable dose of...CHICKEN POX...and not the initially thought 'flu-like cold...What??!!! 67 years evading the nasty bug, and (somehow!) I catch it right on Christmas...too cruel!...not to mention over ten days of no Euforia fix - even _more_ cruel!! . Still, that old adage "absence makes the heart grow fonder" has never been truer - the last couple of days' return to nirvana has been truly wonderful...I'd almost forgotten just how good my system now sounds...(I wasn't imagining it after all lol!! ).
> 
> Re. your question, m, the way our tubes' sockets are wired, both of the grids, cathodes and anodes are linked, and so will therefore be sharing the load...so I personally can't see how only one half of the tube would be used in our own case. And therefore no need to switch tubes IMHO...Hope I'm right lol......CHEERS!


Hi h1,

Wishing you full recovery and good health! 
Thanks for the answer.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Wishing you full recovery and good health!
> Thanks for the answer.



Thanks for the good wishes, m...thankfully, I'm well on the road to recovery now - helped no doubt by increasing doses of Euforia magic!...not to mention massive doses of an anti-viral, that should hopefully prevent any nasty complications setting in lol! 

And hope my answer makes sense to you - can't see how it could be any different myself!!...(but I'm by no means infallible! ).


----------



## canthearyou

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hello H1
> Euforia is installed up and running, have left her a good while to burn in and she is beginning to show signs of brilliance, she sounds fab with either Ken-rad or Tung-sol 6f8g’s and a pair of Chatham tunsol 6080wb’s have a lot more tubes to try in her but at the moment I’m trying to keep tube rolling to a minimum ang get to grips with her refined and transparent sound. Her ability to produce the sound of the female voice is something else, Elise was good with voices, but Euforia really is transparent. She looks good too....



Daaang! I bet it sounds as good as it looks!


----------



## connieflyer

I don't see the benefit to using a dual triode, and only using one half on multiple tubes.  Any suggestions?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I don't see the benefit to using a dual triode, and only using one half on multiple tubes.  Any suggestions?



Hi cf.

There must be some really good(?!!) explanation for not letting both triodes take the strain, but I myself can only think that perhaps it's to do with the possible benefits of not having 2 triodes working in such close proximity within the same (probably small) glass enclosure? Which might explain why some aficionados using hyper-expensive tubes in summit-fi amps prefer a single-triode NOS one over a more modern dual triode version, and are prepared to pay good money for such lol!!

I personally have always believed the single-plate (anode) and cathode, with screens and shield of the pentode, to by design be likely to prove less prone to any kind of 'conflict'/interference, compared to the dual triode's _two_ cathodes and anodes in close proximity. And hence my love for originally the C3g, and then the EL family of pentodes...and which I personally still believe outperform _any_ 6SN7 or similar - given the right accompanying gear, that is...which includes the all-important cables IMHO! But as usual, it also comes down to personal sound preference, of course......CHEERS!...and a HNY!...


----------



## connieflyer

H1, I think you have hit on it, the dual triode was developed to save space and expense when designing a mulitple stage amp.  The dual tube was cheaper to use, and I believe that the only logical reason to design an amp with a dual triode and then only use half, was a cost cutting venture. Perhaps the the triode the designer wanted to use was getting scarce and expensive, and using only half the tube was cheaper alternative to more expensive and increasingly  rare, singles. JMHO though


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> H1, I think you have hit on it, the dual triode was developed to save space and expense when designing a mulitple stage amp.  The dual tube was cheaper to use, and I believe that the only logical reason to design an amp with a dual triode and then only use half, was a cost cutting venture. Perhaps the the triode the designer wanted to use was getting scarce and expensive, and using only half the tube was cheaper alternative to more expensive and increasingly  rare, singles. JMHO though



Yo, cf...one possible, and interesting, reason lol.

Whatever, when it comes to purity of sound reproduction, there's often a good case for "less is more"...which could well be the case here!! ...(I certainly like to think so with my (triode-strapped) pentodes anyway lol!


----------



## Johnnysound

All tubes in the family... Euforia driving Jolida Fusion 3502 in power amp mode.  Sounds really great...
Euforia with RCA 6CG7s (57’ vintage) and Mullard 6080s.  A very dynamic, fast & neutral combo that works nicely in preamp duties.  The preamp section of the Jolida is quite good on itself, but with the Euforia...is another level of refinement. 

Happy new year to all !!


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> All tubes in the family... Euforia driving Jolida Fusion 3502 in power amp mode.  Sounds really great...
> Euforia with RCA 6CG7s (57’ vintage) and Mullard 6080s.  A very dynamic, fast & neutral combo that works nicely in preamp duties.  The preamp section of the Jolida is quite good on itself, but with the Euforia...is another level of refinement.
> 
> Happy new year to all !!



And a HNY to you too, J!...that looks a really nice setup, and I bet it sounds just as good lol! 

Nice too, that Euforia brings some extra magic to the table...not to mention more glass beauties to ogle!!! ...(what next - a tube DAC?!!...but I must admit my Hugo2 takes some beating, methinks!  )...CHEERS!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Glad your on the mend,  H1...

Chicken Pox!  I am surprised you didn't have them as a child.  Recently there has been a lot of cases of the Shingles in older folks in the US, and they say it is caused by the Chicken Pox virus many years after you had them!!

So hopefully you have at least avoided the Shingles.

Hope you are well on your way to feeling 100% again.

Cheers and HNY


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks @JazzVinyl...I can now understand why they say it's best to get CP out of the way when young - it sure ain't nice when caught in one's later years lol! But then, it can resurface later as shingles, which can also be very nasty indeed...Catch22!!!  Luckily, no nasty complications, and getting _closer_ to 100% (which I never achieve anyway, at my tender years!!! ).

ps. Glad to see you're enjoying your Elise once more...


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks @JazzVinyl...I can now understand why they say it's best to get CP out of the way when young - it sure ain't nice when caught in one's later years lol! But then, it can resurface later as shingles, which can also be very nasty indeed...Catch22!!!
> 
> Luckily, no nasty complications, and getting closer to 100% (which I never achieve anyway, at my tender years!!!
> 
> ps. Glad to see you're enjoying your Elise once more...



All ribbing and teasing aside, H1, can't imagine what you have been through.  Must have been really bad and no fun.  Very glad
that you got through it, okay.

My Elise...

Yes, listening to some acoustic "chamber" jazz with a lute, bass clarinet, acoustic bass, and some occasional soprano clarinet and oboe,

The illusion of being in the room with these fellows, is remarkable.

5998's and 'circa 1943' 6SN7W

All that crazy tube rolling we did, probably should have just stayed closer to "home".

Cheers...


----------



## connieflyer

Well, Hypnos1, the way I see it, usually you get CP as a child, so they say once you have them, you have the virus in your blood, and it may attack you later in life as Shingles, so figuring about 40 to 50 years spread between the diseases, you will be about 230 years old when you get shingles! Glad you are on the mend.


----------



## connieflyer

Have had a head cold, congestion, for about the last month or so, and using headphones is uncomfortable.  Have been using the Euforia as pre amp through regular solid state amp.  Found by using the Gec 6as7g and Visseaux 6n7g's it warms up the solid state sound very nicely.  Will have to do until congestion eases or Spring comes!  Winter this year in Michigan is the pits.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Have had a head cold, congestion, for about the last month or so, and using headphones is uncomfortable.  Have been using the Euforia as pre amp through regular solid state amp.  Found by using the Gec 6as7g and Visseaux 6n7g's it warms up the solid state sound very nicely.  Will have to do until congestion eases or Spring comes!  Winter this year in Michigan is the pits.



Oh boy, you said "Visseaux 6sn7"!!!

Joybringers!

Still have mine, might have to give them some time.

Stay warm CF and feel better soon.


----------



## connieflyer

JV those are Visseaux 6N7G's not 6SN7G's, close  but no cigar! Took me awhile before I would write the correct number, did the same thing for awhile.  Feeling somewhat better, but still listening by audio system. Sound is excellent


----------



## JazzVinyl

CF, you wrote it right, I wrote it wrong...I also meant to write 6N7G's...they are what I have and called "JoyBringers" when I first heard them 

Hear ya on preamp function and sounding good!! 

Cheers...


----------



## connieflyer

Took me awhile to remember to drop the "S", used the 6sn7's for so long on different equipment.  Teaching old dog, new tricks not so easy!


----------



## connieflyer

With the Gec 6AS7g's I prefer the 6N7G's over all the other 6SN7G's, both ordinary and premium versions, including K_R, RCA, and Sylvania's.  I will have to try my GEC 6080's too, with the winter being this cold, they will help heat the house!


----------



## JazzVinyl

GEC 6AS7G or the 6080's, I have never heard.  Everyone who has says they are the BEST!!  
I see a brand new pair of GEC 6AS7G on that famous auction site for $500.00 shipped, from the UK.

The most expensive tubes I have are the 5998s which I paid $100.00ea for a few years ago.  They
are great and were worth the expense.

The GN7G's as your drivers liven things up quite a bit.

Curious, if you were to run 6SN7's as drivers...what power tube would to choose?

Cheers!


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 15, 2018)

I have run the 6sn7's with RCA 6AS7G, T-S 5998, Gold Aero 5998A, GEC 6AS7G's, and various 6080's.  Of I prefer the T-S 5998 when using T-S 6SN7's, GEC 6AS7G's with the Sylvania 6SN7's, T-S 5998 with the RCA 1947  6SN7's.  They all sound quite nice, but I find the RCA 6AS7's to be a bit too warm.  The T-S 5998 and Gold Aero 5998A  I like the best with the 6SN7's  generally. 
Forgot to mention that the best 6080's I have heard with the 6SN7's were the Raytheon carbon plate 6080's.  They seem to run hot, but have a great sound. With this weather, should have kept them!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Sounds like well recommended combinations to me,  CF!

Now feel better and say warm, as old man Winter tries to wreak havoc.

.


----------



## connieflyer

Have the GEC 6080's in this morning and they sound about the same as the 6AS7G's,  but these are almost new, only a few hours on them, so not burned in yet.  Trying with the Senn 800 for the last half hour and they sound delicious! Looked up the Visseaux 6N7G's on ebay and they were around $300 a pair now!  That was a surprise, but I suppose as the supply drys up the price will increase.  The GEC 6080's were going for about $171 apiece and the 6AS7's about$240 apiece so at this rate if I sell off all my tubes I can buy a new car!  Snow all day, light, but temps in the 20's at least.


----------



## myphone

CF, could you please share photo of Raytheon carbon plate 6080s? Thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry myphone, I sold those last fall to a member here. You can Google it and see pictures of them, very distinctive


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> All ribbing and teasing aside, H1, can't imagine what you have been through.  Must have been really bad and no fun.  Very glad
> that you got through it, okay.
> 
> My Elise...
> ...



Ah but, JV, such rolling is the only way to get a good handle on just how different tubes perform...along with how they interact with different gear, and is a wonderful way to learn the more subtle aspects of sound assessment lol!  I myself - along with many others - also found it extremely interesting, if occasionally somewhat controversial and contradictory...all part of this crazy hobby of ours methinks!!  

In the process, a good few of us discovered tubes that - depending upon one's system and ears - gave us things that weren't delivered by the stock configuration tubes, and therefore made the sometimes 'mad' rolling a bit easier to justify...including the sometimes rather expensive ventures!! I know I'm not alone in being grateful for finding (different) tubes that finally bring out closer to the full potential of both my Euforia and upgraded peripherals, bearing in mind that everyone's system (and environment/ears) must, by definition, be unique.

But I'm only too glad to see folks who are more than happy with conventional tubes, of which there is indeed a wonderfully large choice...and which is precisely why I suggested this to Feliks-Audio in the first place (Elise)!  At least now, newcomers can profit from the experience of those of us who have, on occasions, been teetering on the brink of the abyss...even if in not such an 'exciting'(??!!) manner lol ...(but wouldn't have missed it for anything!!)...CHEERS!...





connieflyer said:


> Well, Hypnos1, the way I see it, usually you get CP as a child, so they say once you have them, you have the virus in your blood, and it may attack you later in life as Shingles, so figuring about 40 to 50 years spread between the diseases, you will be about 230 years old when you get shingles! Glad you are on the mend.



Thanks for those few kind words cf...I've no desire whatsoever to drag on until 100, let alone 230 lol!!!   But you've comforted me in the probability(?!) that at least I should now be spared the awful plight of Shingles later on...(but with my kind of luck, this darned virus of mine probably hasn't read the medical books!!! ).

ps. You've certainly tried a good few of the top flight 'conventional' tubes, which do indeed sing very nicely in Euforia, as well as Elise. And do come in handy when needing different requirements for pre-amp duties as opposed to headphones, for example...ENJOY!!!...


----------



## JazzVinyl

My favorites in Elise are 6x 6BL7 as powers and FDD20 as drivers.  Keeps her ice cold as well, since all globes must be externally heated.

But 5998/6SN7W is not far behind, and I could certainly live with those, forever, without complaint .


----------



## myphone

Incidentally found out DAC/Euforia combo has much bigger impact on sound quality than tube rolling. 

A few days ago, swapped in Meridian Director DAC so I could use Ayre Codex (DAC only) to test other gears, I was pleasantly surprised that Euforia sounds much richer and organic with lowly Director.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 19, 2018)

myphone said:


> Incidentally found out DAC/Euforia combo has much bigger impact on sound quality than tube rolling.
> 
> A few days ago, swapped in Meridian Director DAC so I could use Ayre Codex (DAC only) to test other gears, I was pleasantly surprised that Euforia sounds much richer and organic with lowly Director.



Hi myphone.

I think I agree with you re. the DAC effect...even though different tubes (especially "unconventional" ones!) can indeed also bring more to the table lol 

My well-regarded Audiolab 8200CD's ESS Sabre-based DAC was outperformed by my also Sabre-clad custom tube DAC (with some very nice TFK E88CCs), and then _massively_ so by my Chord Hugo2...helped along in no small way by the UP-OCC silver interconnects and (DIY) replacement T1 (gen1) HP cable.

As I have mentioned before (often!!), Euforia ups her game considerably in line with other elements in the system...but usually as they go up the scale!! It's therefore very interesting that your 'lowly' Meridian DAC delivers more - for you - even though coming _down_ the scale lol  Presumably also as a result of matching with the rest of the system?...(not that I'm saying the rest is 'lowly'!!).


----------



## connieflyer

Looking to acquire another headphone to add to others.  I have been reading up on the Audioquest Night Owl's.  Impedance is stated to be 25 ohms and Euforia is stated at 32 ohm.  Was wondering if anyone has tried these with Euforia.  Will post this on Elise thread as well, should have similar response. Thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

H you have a PM


----------



## connieflyer

Going to be clearing out some tubes, will have at least 2 GEC 6080 and 2 KenRad 6sn7 black.  Will ship conus only, PP


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Going to be clearing out some tubes, will have at least 2 GEC 6080 and 2 KenRad 6sn7 black.  Will ship conus only, PP


Please send me a PM with what you want to sell and prices - thanks


----------



## Johnnysound

connieflyer said:


> Going to be clearing out some tubes, will have at least 2 GEC 6080 and 2 KenRad 6sn7 black.  Will ship conus only, PP



I am interested, please send me a PM


----------



## canthearyou

connieflyer said:


> Going to be clearing out some tubes, will have at least 2 GEC 6080 and 2 KenRad 6sn7 black.  Will ship conus only, PP



No, send me a PM.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 27, 2018)

The addition of my new Jolida Fusion tube amp was a real test for the Euforia as a preamp. The former is both a power amp and an integrated, by means of a “bypass” switch, so you can compare instantly its own preamp section (surprisingly good) against an outboard preamp.

With simple pop music or similar, the sound was so close that I was astonished...the Jolida was that good.  But when music got more complex, and with HD sources, the Euforia just soared away with refinement, definition,  air, and a way more relaxed presentation...less electronic  perhaps, less noise, I don’t know, but very musical.

In preamp duties, tube rolling is quite a different game, of course.  Some combos that work nicely in the Euforia as an HP amp, somehow does not perform that good as a preamp.  Too many variables here,  but in general terms I feel that the Euforia  is kind of ruthless in this role,  does not hide or sweeten anything,  revealing the character of tubes and driving  the amp (and speakers) with all the good and the bad of the installed tubes.  Great tubes like TS 5998s can sound a bit raw, and only the very best 6SN7s can do it...barely.

I found best results are obtained with “refined” tubes...like our top combo of EL11-EL12 spezials, or, if you want more “boggie” and excitement, with Mullards 6080s, driven by the truly outstanding russian 6N1P-E...good old RCAs 6CG7s (black plates, with shield) are also excellent as preamp tubes, as are the 6N23P from sixties or seventies.  I found all those tubes to outperform almost any 6SN7 in the Euforia, and have  to admit reluctantly that a few great 6080s are over my beloved 6AS7Gs (I have many) in preamp work...


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 26, 2018)

For those of us that use a PC as a music source, I suggest give a try to “Fidelizer” software.  Its free, and I feel it really works.  I ended buying the “pro” version (for around $ 60) and am very pleased with it.  The Euforia, in particular, appears to be very sensitive to this optimization, in a more than subtle way...worth trying. !!


----------



## connieflyer

This is one of the fun parts of this hobby, tube rolling, can be quite an education. I get just the opposite results from Johnnysound, using it as a preamp. I use the Euforia as a preamp out to a Harman Kardon AVR7200 and get excellent results.  The best, for me, are the EL11-El12 combo, followed very closely by the Visseaux 6N7G and GEC 6080-GEC 6AS7G combo's.  next in line would be the TS 6SN7 and TS 5998, which is tied with Aero Gold 6SN7 and Aero Gold 5998A. The tube amp does have second order harmonics, and I think that this warms up the solid state HK amp.  Results are the same for my phones, Senn 800 and HiFiMan 400i.  Clarity and accuacy of piano is very evident.  One thing that I have found, is that the advice that I got on other audio forums's to turn the volumn to max on the preamp and use the volumn on the amp to control loudness,  I balance these about 50-50.  I tried running the preamp vol full up, and did not like it as much.  Don't be afraid to try this.  All equipment is a little different and responds differently.  I demoed this to a friend and he agreed, and did the same balancing on his tube preamp, ss amp.  HIs settings were a little different, as he used about 55 for the pre and 45 or so to the SS amp. Good luck


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Please send me a PM with what you want to sell and prices - thanks


You guys should send an offer to c. The highest bidder get it. I already offered him $3000 for all. JK


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you attmci, I accept your offer!


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Thank you attmci, I accept your offer!


Not sure if I understand the last post - the stuff on the list I got via PM only adds up to less than $400.
What's included for 3K?


----------



## connieflyer

It's a premium because I'm such a nice guy!


----------



## thatonenoob

Hello friends! Could anyone shed some light on these RCA tubes?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> This is one of the fun parts of this hobby, tube rolling, can be quite an education. I get just the opposite results from Johnnysound, using it as a preamp. I use the Euforia as a preamp out to a Harman Kardon AVR7200 and get excellent results.  *The best, for me, are the EL11-El12 combo,* followed very closely by the Visseaux 6N7G and GEC 6080-GEC 6AS7G combo's.  next in line would be the TS 6SN7 and TS 5998, which is tied with Aero Gold 6SN7 and Aero Gold 5998A. The tube amp does have second order harmonics, and I think that this warms up the solid state HK amp.  Results are the same for my phones, Senn 800 and HiFiMan 400i.  Clarity and accuacy of piano is very evident.  One thing that I have found, is that the advice that I got on other audio forums's to turn the volumn to max on the preamp and use the volumn on the amp to control loudness,  I balance these about 50-50.  I tried running the preamp vol full up, and did not like it as much.  Don't be afraid to try this.  All equipment is a little different and responds differently.  I demoed this to a friend and he agreed, and did the same balancing on his tube preamp, ss amp.  HIs settings were a little different, as he used about 55 for the pre and 45 or so to the SS amp. Good luck



Hi cf...nice to see you still rate the EL11/12 Spezial highly - I have given up trying to find anything to match these tubes! I'm sure that, as you say, Euforia does indeed help bring out the best in them...which I'm also sure is an unexpected and welcome bonus of the amp NOT actually being strictly configured for them lol!!!  ...(I only hope the same can be said for F-A's new flagship amp!! Plus, I can't wait to see how the legendary 2A3 compares to the magical EL12 Spezial!).

I too find that in preamp duties, about 50-50 is the optimum in my own setup...so it is indeed a good idea to experiment, as all 'power' amps are likely to have different (optimum) input requirements...In my Elise, anything much over 50% volume from her in fact produced horrendous distortion in my Vincent SS amp!



Johnnysound said:


> The addition of my new Jolida Fusion tube amp was a real test for the Euforia as a preamp. The former is both a power amp and an integrated, by means of a “bypass” switch, so you can compare instantly its own preamp section (surprisingly good) against an outboard preamp.
> 
> With simple pop music or similar, the sound was so close that I was astonished...the Jolida was that good.  But when music got more complex, and with HD sources, the Euforia just soared away with refinement, definition,  air, and a way more relaxed presentation...less electronic  perhaps, less noise, I don’t know, but very musical.
> 
> ...



Hi J...as I just mentioned to cf - and you appear to agree! - this EL combo is truly special...and as you say, *refined*. And as you also say, Euforia is indeed ruthless when it comes to revealing any weaknesses in tubes....NO tube is without_ some _kind of weakness, of course! However, the only weakness I've found with the 11/12 Spez combo in my own particular setup is that in combination with Euforia's _*clarity*_ and _*accuracy*_ (as per cf), they take no prisoners when encountering poorly recorded music!  But when presented with _well-engineered _recordings, this amp and tubes deliver a very special sound indeed...at least for those who don't crave a 'softer' (or even, as you say, 'boogier'!); 'warmer', less _precise_ type of sound . I suppose one could call it a synthesis of _good_ SS with tube 'polish'...(er, with a _small_ 'p' lol!!! )...


----------



## hypnos1

Although I expect all of you know by now, I'm just repeating here the sad news of our good friend Phil - pctazhp - passing away yesterday, after losing his battle with serious illness.

I want to thank once again all those who have given their condolences....such a nice guy will be sorely missed.

RIP, dear Phil...


----------



## connieflyer

I got a little lonesome, so went back to the start of this thread and on page 3, there Phil was, had to read in about two dozen pages, nice to know I can revisit with him a little.  Miss my little brother.


----------



## ostewart

Espressivo MKII review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-audio-espressivo-mkii.22896/reviews#review-19780


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I got a little lonesome, so went back to the start of this thread and on page 3, there Phil was, had to read in about two dozen pages, nice to know I can revisit with him a little.  Miss my little brother.



Ditto, cf......


----------



## Oskari

thatonenoob said:


> Hello friends! Could anyone shed some light on these RCA tubes?



Those appear to be _coin base_ _6SN7GTB_s made by _Sylvania_. I have no personal experience with them but I like the looks! I'm sure you'll find some opinions if you search with those _terms_.


----------



## thatonenoob

Oskari said:


> Those appear to be _coin base_ _6SN7GTB_s made by _Sylvania_. I have no personal experience with them but I like the looks! I'm sure you'll find some opinions if you search with those _terms_.



Thanks! Can't say I was expecting sylvania tubes but nonetheless a welcome addition either ways.


----------



## JazzVinyl

thatonenoob said:


> Thanks! Can't say I was expecting sylvania tubes but nonetheless a welcome addition either ways.



I like that coinbase look,  too!  Very cool!


----------



## oshipao

I am saddened to hear that Phil (pctazhp) has passed away 

Reminds you just how fragile life is. R.I.P.


----------



## thatonenoob




----------



## Johnnysound (Feb 2, 2018)

Ed.


----------



## angpsi

Copying from the Elise thread; I just dropped in to see how everybody's doing and got the news... I was fortunate enough to benefit from Phil's generosity (helped me get a Cardas Cross cable from the US) and got to know him a tiny bit better than just on the forum. Truly a good man. May he rest in peace, he will definitely be remembered...


----------



## myphone

Review of 2018 Euforia:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/feliks/1.html


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> Review of 2018 Euforia:
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/feliks/1.html



Thanks for the link myphone...to be honest, I never thought 6moons would ever even bother to review anything from the relatively unknown Feliks-Audio family! And so it was with much trepidation that I read their opinions...

I was especially concerned when I saw the gear they were testing it with...viz as pre-amp. However, I thought it held its head up fairly high in this role...as most of us longer-term users have found.

I was, however, even happier at his surprise at how well Euforia performed with more 'difficult' headphones..._very _happy, in fact! . And his results with the likes of Senn HD800, Beyer T1 etc were even more encouraging. Nice also was no statement whatsoever along the lines of being 'overpriced', which was very good to hear. And all this with probably minimal burn-in of either amp or tubes....and with tubes that I personally don't think bring out anywhere near Euforia's true potential.

So all in all I think this 6moons review is highly positive, and vindicates F-A's efforts in creating something extra special in its class and price point. I shall reiterate the reviewer's words verbatim at the end, in the hope that 6moons don't mind...ie : "The currently best headfi amp from Feliks Audio cuts quite the figure. It reiterated my earlier observation that much impressive hifi these days comes out of Poland. Lepiej w to uwierz? You better believe it"...thanks 6moons for your review...CJ


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

Hi All,
Have to say the Euforia has become such a delight to listen too, I do listen with Beyers - T1 G2, have some Mr Speakers Aeons, wouldn’t recommend them with the Euforia or Elise, 32 ohm or less planars sound better with a Mojo or a solid state setup. The Beyers on the other hand sound a dream, have played with headphone cables, can’t grouch about the Atlas cable I have it’s way better than the stock cable. I have a Toxic on order, looking forward to listening to the Beyers with this cable.
Have to say though, I mostly listen to my beautiful Euforia with active near field monitors, I was using a pair of Yamaha HS7’s, Euforia was a bit let down by these monitors, so I upgraded to a pair of Focal Space 50’s, we are a month down the line, the amp has rounded off into complete beauty, I thought Elise was amazing if you spent some on tubes, Euforia is a complete new ballpark. The detail, dynamics, shear bass grunt, all mixed up in such a transparent package. I went for the Focal Space 50’s, because the amp is at my work, and I mix sounds, voice & music for clients. The Focal’s have to be the most honest, transparent & musical near fields, I’ve listened too. Most people have The Yam’s or Adam’s. No honestly listen to the Focal shape 50’s with Euforia, play the tubes a bit, can’t get by the Ken-rad 6F8G’s, these drivers are dribbley good, then a pair of Chatham 6080WB’s or TS 7236’s, mmmmm wow they sound great. The combo of Euforia and the Focal’s is devine.....
Hope all’s good with you guys and you’re enjoying the delights of this beautiful amp.
Very sad to hear about Phil, respect. Can’t say I knew him, I didn’t, have to respect him for what he shared on this forum. We all read the old posts if we are interested in making a purchase & his contribution to this thread helped me make the decision to buy an amp I am delighted with


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

A pic, would recommend the Avid Isopuk’s and a bit of slate, this made a real difference.


----------



## myphone

From 6moons review " Euforia will deliver 0.13 watts into 32Ω and 300Ω, 0.2W into 100Ω and 0.08W into 600Ω. Voltage gain is 20dB and output impedance 20Ω." 

I am a bit confused with these specs.

Does anyone know what output power tubes make the output impedance of 20Ω? As 6080/6as7/7236/5998 have different impedance.


----------



## Johnnysound (Feb 10, 2018)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Have to say though, I mostly listen to my beautiful Euforia with active near field monitors, I was using a pair of Yamaha HS7’s, Euforia was a bit let down by these monitors, so I upgraded to a pair of Focal Space 50’s, we are a month down the line, the amp has rounded off into complete beauty, I thought Elise was amazing if you spent some on tubes, Euforia is a complete new ballpark. The detail, dynamics, shear bass grunt, all mixed up in such a transparent package



Hey, at last someone else (apart from Connieflyer and me) that uses the Euforia full time as a preamp !  With the big difference that SMP is into pro music edition, with very nice powered studio monitors.  This is another game,  I am not a pro but I did bring my Euforia  to drive my older son JBL 6 1/2 inch studio monitors and the results were stunning.  Not as top notch as the Focals of SMP of course, but sounded so damm good...

This experience confirm my previous impression that the Euforia is a terrific preamp for SS or digital amps.  My trusty NAD monitor amps, in dual mono, just jumped into a new life,  better than ever after  25 years of duty...there is something about this OTL kind of preamp that simply make solid state amps very happy...


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Hey, at last someone else (apart from Connieflyer and me) that uses the Euforia full time as a preamp !  With the big difference that SMP is into pro music edition, with very nice powered studio monitors.  This is another game,  I am not a pro but I did bring my Euforia  to drive my older son JBL 6 1/2 inch studio monitors and the results were stunning.  Not as top notch as the Focals of SMP of course, but sounded so damm good...
> 
> This experience confirm my previous impression that the Euforia is a terrific preamp for SS or digital amps.  My trusty NAD monitor amps, in dual mono, just jumped into a new life,  better than ever after  25 years of duty...there is something about this OTL kind of preamp that simply make solid state amps very happy...


Hi Johnnysound,

I have been using my Euforia (and before that the Elise - still have it) as a preamp 99% of the time.
I upgraded recently to Elac Debut 6 and subwoofer S10, and I am extremely happy with the sound. There is a Stereophile review that claims that the Elac is just as good or better than the KEF LS50, at a fraction of the price.


----------



## hypnos1 (Feb 11, 2018)

myphone said:


> From 6moons review " Euforia will deliver 0.13 watts into 32Ω and 300Ω, 0.2W into 100Ω and 0.08W into 600Ω. Voltage gain is 20dB and output impedance 20Ω."
> 
> I am a bit confused with these specs.
> 
> Does anyone know what output power tubes make the output impedance of 20Ω? As 6080/6as7/7236/5998 have different impedance.



Confusing indeed myphone...Lukasz did say their amps have been made more low impedance-friendly than your average OTLs, but this does seem a little strange! 

However and whatever, as per the 6moons review, Euforia does do (surprisingly) well with low-ohms, but even better with high-impedance dynamics!! And really well as pre-amp - depending on the power amp!!! ...ask @SnapperMusicFan , @Johnnysound , @mordy and @connieflyer ...let alone yours truly!!


----------



## connieflyer (Feb 11, 2018)

First off let me just say that I have no measurements available to support what I say. I use my own ears and many many years of listening to music as well as friends that have stopped by to listen to the Euforia, and I must say that the combination of this tube amp as a preamp especially going into a solid-state amplifier is quite an upgrade. Right now I am using it going into a Harman Kardon AVR 7200 solid-state amp using them with PSB speakers the image 4 T and subsonic 6 subwoofer. Tomorrow I take delivery of SVS ultimate Tower speakers and PC 12 + subwoofer, and I expect this to really Excel. I have found that the addition of the tube amp with the solid-state amp is a very good sound. I believe as some of the others do that the tube sound warms up the solid-state amp just a little bit and it's all that's necessary to make it sound even better than it ever did before. Now mind you this is my opinion no instrumentation involved in this other than the fact that it is so extremely pleasing. Since coming down with a head cold a couple of months ago I had to back off the use of headphones and that's when I went to the preamp configuration. I have the Sennheiser 800 and also the 400 I headphones as well as a couple of others and this app does great things for those phones.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...just a quick few(?!) words...

Firstly : I advise anyone over 50yrs who hasn't yet caught Chicken Pox..._*get vaccinated straight away!!*_ It would appear that since the CT scan has all but eliminated stroke as the cause of my symptoms, it is pretty certain complications post-CP are the most likely culprit...you have been warned!! 

Secondly : Those who may be interested in the very nice new Woo Audio WA33 might consider waiting until F-A announce their own new flagship amp - at the moment proposed as 6SN7s driving 2A3s, in a fully balanced configuration, and with specially commissioned transformer as output power (better for planar headphones and speakers). Plus, their current design is way more modern-looking!  Further details and pics to follow....

Thirdly : At least my current health limitations have resulted in one benefit : my sense of hearing has become more acute, and I can hear the full beauty of the mesh-plate EL11/EL12 Spezial combo in my Euforia setup...for the short time I can appreciate it lol!! (See my profile for the full complement!). The detail resolution and tonal color is breathtaking for an OTL amp, along with a host of other attributes. It is nice to see that one of the latest fans of the much-feted Elekit DIY amps is wholly in favour of the EL12 Spezial power tube...understandably so!! 

Fourthly : HAPPY LISTENING!...whatever your preferences!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys...just a quick few(?!) words...
> 
> Firstly : I advise anyone over 50yrs who hasn't yet caught Chicken Pox..._*get vaccinated straight away!!*_ It would appear that since the CT scan has all but eliminated stroke as the cause of my symptoms, it is pretty certain complications post-CP are the most likely culprit...you have been warned!!
> 
> ...


Hi h1. First time on the Euforia thread, I feel like I've gone from business class to first class! 

I always though Chicken Pox was a kids condition!, I remember getting CP when I was about 10 and having to wait outside the doctor's waiting room in the hallway because of contagion, never forgotten that, anyway h1, get well soon!.

You're making this new  F A flagship sound more mouth watering by the minute, think I'd better start putting me pennies in my piggy bank!.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> First off let me just say that I have no measurements available to support what I say. I use my own ears and many many years of listening to music as well as friends that have stopped by to listen to the Euforia, and I must say that the combination of this tube amp as a preamp especially going into a solid-state amplifier is quite an upgrade. Right now I am using it going into a Harman Kardon AVR 7200 solid-state amp using them with PSB speakers the image 4 T and subsonic 6 subwoofer. Tomorrow I take delivery of SVS ultimate Tower speakers and PC 12 + subwoofer, and I expect this to really Excel. I have found that the addition of the tube amp with the solid-state amp is a very good sound. I believe as some of the others do that the tube sound warms up the solid-state amp just a little bit and it's all that's necessary to make it sound even better than it ever did before. Now mind you this is my opinion no instrumentation involved in this other than the fact that it is so extremely pleasing. Since coming down with a head cold a couple of months ago I had to back off the use of headphones and that's when I went to the preamp configuration. I have the Sennheiser 800 and also the 400 I headphones as well as a couple of others and this app does great things for those phones.


Hi CF,

It's funny that today I was thinking the same as you - a tube preamp enhances a ss amp. I borrowed a grandson's Schiyt Jutenheim, with the Gen 5 USB card. While the lower bass seems better controlled by the Jutenheim, I much prefer the sound of the Euforia in tonality and liveliness.
Combining both, playing through a ss amp, seems to enhance the attributes of both amps.

Tried to compare the Gen5 USB with straight out from the speaker jack on my new WIN10  PC - not sure if there is much difference to my old ears....
And forget about comparing the Gen 5 with my old VISTA PC - no drivers available!


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> 
> It's funny that today I was thinking the same as you - a tube preamp enhances a ss amp. I borrowed a grandson's Schiyt Jutenheim, with the Gen 5 USB card. While the lower bass seems better controlled by the Jutenheim, I much prefer the sound of the Euforia in tonality and liveliness.
> Combining both, playing through a ss amp, seems to enhance the attributes of both amps.
> ...


My friend still has Vista he wanted to get a Schitt DAC to go with is Vista laptop and as he found out Vista is to old and not supported anymore upgrade time .I had vista up until 2 years ago now  have Windows 10 still like you I use  Musicbee


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1. First time on the Euforia thread, I feel like I've gone from business class to first class!
> 
> I always though Chicken Pox was a kids condition!, I remember getting CP when I was about 10 and having to wait outside the doctor's waiting room in the hallway because of contagion, never forgotten that, anyway h1*, get well soon!.
> 
> You're making this new  F A flagship sound more mouth watering by the minute, think I'd better start putting me pennies in my piggy bank!.*



Thanks Scutey...will try! 

Yeah, get saving now lol!...sounds like it will be another giant-killer - and (hopefully!) at a much more attractive price and specification for the money, compared to similar competition!!


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

Hi Hypnos1,
I’m looking to give a pair of EL3N’s a go in place of the 6AS7G’s. I have a pair of EL 11’s that sound just fab with a pair of Chatham 6080WB’s.
Can you please point me in the right direction for a pair of adapters to make the EL3N’s work with the EL11’s as I’m pretty sure this is a favoured combo of yours? Many thanks, and I hope the snow’s managable in your part of Suffolk?
All the best.


----------



## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi Hypnos1,
> I’m looking to give a pair of EL3N’s a go in place of the 6AS7G’s. I have a pair of EL 11’s that sound just fab with a pair of Chatham 6080WB’s.
> Can you please point me in the right direction for a pair of adapters to make the EL3N’s work with the EL11’s as I’m pretty sure this is a favoured combo of yours? Many thanks, and I hope the snow’s managable in your part of Suffolk?
> All the best.



Hi SMF...glad you like the EL11 - great tube!! Not quite so 'warm' as the EL3N - especially as driver. And the EL tubes, although not configured for, perform wonderfully in F-A's amps. I myself believe this is due to the 6AS7G/6080 (according to radiomuseum) being _strictly_ a _regulator_ tube, as opposed to a power/output tube such as the EL family - despite the greater availability of the former.

I personally find the very best combo - in my system especially - is the mesh-plate Australian EL3N*G*/old Valvo mesh-plate EL11, driving the TFK EL12 Spezial power. But they are extremely rare and/or now rather expensive! The latter powers require special adapters from ebay.com, and which have a wire to the top anode that usually gives a bad hum unless dealt with by ferrite chokes etc. (I'm lucky in that I have no such problem, adapting the tubes myself).

Instead of the EL12 Spezial you may try the EL3N with adapter available again on ebay.com (be prepared for a long wait, coming from China!), or the much cheaper East German EL12*N*, regardless of brand name - available for a good price from ebay.de or even ebay.pl if not many on ebay.uk. Again, the latter need an adapter from China -

At the moment I can only find EL3N to 6SN7/6AS7G adapter on ebay.com, which is what you wanted in the 1st place- the others might take some finding!!!

ps. Sorry for the limited reply, but can only use left hand at present - awaiting results of the MRI scan 4th March...slow going!!


----------



## connieflyer

I have to agree with H1, the best combo I have used is the EL11 and E12Spezial's they also run the coolest of any combo I have tried. Mordy just retired my Harman Kardon 7200, could not resist the Anthem MRX 720 receiver any longer. Quite a step up.  H1, hope you are behaving yourself, doing a great job with just the left hand.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I have to agree with H1, the best combo I have used is the EL11 and E12Spezial's they also run the coolest of any combo I have tried. Mordy just retired my Harman Kardon 7200, could not resist the Anthem MRX 720 receiver any longer. Quite a step up.  H1, hope you are behaving yourself, doing a great job with just the left hand.



Hi cf...am trying..._very, _lol!! 

ps. @SnapperMusicFan ...I myself find it takes a while for the EL tubes to 'settle in' - please give 'em the time they deserve! But your 6080WBs should be pretty damn' awesome!!
pps. Snow here is worst for a long time - hope things are better for you!
ppps. @MIKELAP and @mordy ...better get saving (hard!) for the new flagship as well - sounds like a winner...(for those with a good bit of spare cash!!! )...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

If i keep spending, there wont be any left!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If i keep spending, there wont be any left!



Join the club, cf!


----------



## connieflyer

not only have I joined the club, I think I started it!  This new Anthem MRX 720 receiver is a great piece of equipment. First time I have noticed this much change in the sound with a receiver. Cost more than I was planning but, hey, if I did not spend it on gear, it would be on wine women and song, and for me that would be a waste of time, (except for the wine!)


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi SMF...glad you like the EL11 - great tube!! Not quite so 'warm' as the EL3N - especially as driver. And the EL tubes, although not configured for, perform wonderfully in F-A's amps. I myself believe this is due to the 6AS7G/6080 (according to radiomuseum) being _strictly_ a _regulator_ tube, as opposed to a power/output tube such as the EL family - despite the greater availability of the former.
> 
> I personally find the very best combo - in my system especially - is the mesh-plate Australian EL3N*G*/old Valvo mesh-plate EL11, driving the TFK EL12 Spezial power. But they are extremely rare and/or now rather expensive! The latter powers require special adapters from ebay.com, and which have a wire to the top anode that usually gives a bad hum unless dealt with by ferrite chokes etc. (I'm lucky in that I have no such problem, adapting the tubes myself).
> 
> ...



Hi Hypnos 1,

Many thanks for your reply, I have some adapters on order and a pair of EL12's and EL3N's, the sound from these EL11's is something else, had them in fo a while now and all they do is get better. I was such a fan of my 6F8G's, but they cannot touch the transparency of the EL11's with the Chatham 6080wb's.
The other significant difference is an DAC upgrade from the Bifrost, a Qutest, what a difference, layered, dynamic, punchy yet transparent, it sounds fabulous with the Focal's, have just had Frédéric Chopin; Martha Argerich, Orchestre symphonique de Montréal, Charles Dutoit, concertos 1 & 2, the best I've heard them.
Looking forward to getting the new tubes, will give an update when they arrive. Snow here, between Bury and Diss, was heavy yesterday about 6 inches so not too bad, hear it's worse in Norfolk..... Hope your hand's soon on the mend.


----------



## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi Hypnos 1,
> 
> 
> Many thanks for your reply, I have some adapters on order and a pair of EL12's and EL3N's, the sound from these EL11's is something else, had them in fo a while now and all they do is get better. I was such a fan of my 6F8G's, but they cannot touch the transparency of the EL11's with the Chatham 6080wb's.
> ...



HI SMF. Those TFKs look wonderful...glad they sound to match!  Look forward to your impressions of the EL3N and EL12 (the latter using the same adapter as the EL11, and IMHO should probably sound better than the 3N!).

Piano is a good test of a tube, along with violin/cello and female vocals...especially with the EL tubes (valves!) and the Chord DACs - mine being the Hugo2. 

I noticed the much under-rated Beyer T1s, but not which Focals? I love the idea of the new Senn HD820, but the price is not so good!

And try making your own ICs and hp cables from Neotech UP-OCC silver...will take your setup to a new level!!


----------



## mordy (Mar 4, 2018)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi Hypnos 1,
> 
> Many thanks for your reply, I have some adapters on order and a pair of EL12's and EL3N's, the sound from these EL11's is something else, had them in fo a while now and all they do is get better. I was such a fan of my 6F8G's, but they cannot touch the transparency of the EL11's with the Chatham 6080wb's.
> The other significant difference is an DAC upgrade from the Bifrost, a Qutest, what a difference, layered, dynamic, punchy yet transparent, it sounds fabulous with the Focal's, have just had Frédéric Chopin; Martha Argerich, Orchestre symphonique de Montréal, Charles Dutoit, concertos 1 & 2, the best I've heard them.
> Looking forward to getting the new tubes, will give an update when they arrive. Snow here, between Bury and Diss, was heavy yesterday about 6 inches so not too bad, hear it's worse in Norfolk..... Hope your hand's soon on the mend.



Hi SnapperMusicFan,

Decided to try your recipe for sonic bliss, at least re the tubes. Truth is, I never liked the pair of Chatham 6080s that I have - always felt that they had a harsh bassy edge to them.
Not so the TFK El11 which I like very much. The tubes I have are used ones from 1943 and 1944.
In any case, after warming up for some 30 minutes this combination sounds  splendid! Many thanks for the suggestion - would not have thought of it myself.
In comparison with my preferred tube combination of GEC 6080 and Foton 1954 ribbed anode they are somewhat similar. The GEC/Foton combination has a more punchy bass, but the EL11/Chatham combination has a more flowery mid range, although a bit bright. Both are excellent.
I don't have any special DAC in my chain and I am sure that the sound could be further improved, but it is still very nice.
My photographic skills don't match yours, but here is a picture:



The Chathams came from eBay and were untested and cost $10 shipped. The seller called me brave for buying them, but I figured that if somebody had saved them for 55 years they probably would be good (they were).
The EL11 tubes I found on German eBay. Somebody was selling off his father's tube collection and I payed something like $15 each or less including shipping.
I am mention the prices to show that with patience you can get good buys and you don't have to pay a lot for good sound.
I enjoy researching when the tubes were made. The early Telefunken tubes have a two letter date code. Here is a link to a date code chart:
http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm


----------



## myphone (Mar 11, 2018)

Got a pair of Telefunken EL12 sp from eBay auction. Excited to try something new. Have been strictly using 6SN7/6AS7 family tubes.


----------



## mordy

Had to try a quarter pounder Carbon plate tube that I bought - a Raytheon 6336B. Previously I have the Cetron 6336B. In comparison, they are pretty much similar, except that the Cetron has six support rods for the mica plates, and the Raytheon only two. (The Rays also have more tube glow.)
Cannot say that I hear any difference, but my understanding is that more support rods translates into less microphonics.
These American muscle tubes draw 5A each, and require an external power supply. 
Together with the EL11 they sound pretty good, with a hefty bass. My 15A voltage converter is not up to handling these tubes because the start-up in rush current draw may approach 15A - have to look for a 20A voltage converter.




As an aside, I broke off the guide pin to one of the tubes previously. Fixed it with crazy glue (have not seen somebody mention this before), and it seems to be working....


----------



## 2359glenn

. My 15A voltage converter is not up to handling these tubes because the start-up in rush current draw may approach 15A - have to look for a 20A voltage converter.


As an aside, I broke off the guide pin to one of the tubes previously. Fixed it with crazy glue (have not seen somebody mention this before), and it seems to be working....[/QUOTE]

Why get a voltage converter when all you need is a 6.3 volt 20 amp transformer.
https://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 13, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Why get a voltage converter when all you need is a 6.3 volt 20 amp transformer.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/




Like I have - and absolutely *LOVE IT*!!!


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> . My 15A voltage converter is not up to handling these tubes because the start-up in rush current draw may approach 15A - have to look for a 20A voltage converter.
> 
> 
> As an aside, I broke off the guide pin to one of the tubes previously. Fixed it with crazy glue (have not seen somebody mention this before), and it seems to be working....



Why get a voltage converter when all you need is a 6.3 volt 20 amp transformer.
https://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/[/QUOTE]

Hi Glenn,

Very good suggestion and in all likelihood much better than what I have. I am guessing around $50 with shipping.
However, buying a voltage regulator for $10 allows me to hook it up to my existing PS and to use oddball tubes of different voltages.


----------



## 2359glenn

mordy said:


> Why get a voltage converter when all you need is a 6.3 volt 20 amp transformer.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/



Hi Glenn,

Very good suggestion and in all likelihood much better than what I have. I am guessing around $50 with shipping.
However, buying a voltage regulator for $10 allows me to hook it up to my existing PS and to use oddball tubes of different voltages.[/QUOTE]

A voltage regulator feeding 2 of these tubes drawing 10 amps is going to get hot hot hot better have a big heat sink.


----------



## mordy (Mar 13, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Hi Glenn,
> 
> Very good suggestion and in all likelihood much better than what I have. I am guessing around $50 with shipping.
> However, buying a voltage regulator for $10 allows me to hook it up to my existing PS and to use oddball tubes of different voltages.



A voltage regulator feeding 2 of these tubes drawing 10 amps is going to get hot hot hot better have a big heat sink.[/QUOTE]
Big enough?








DC 300W 20A CC CV Constant Current Adjustable Step-Down Converter Voltage Buck
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-300W-20A-CC-CV-Constant-Current-Adjustable-Step-Down-Converter-Voltage-Buck/222637386210?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 14, 2018)

Mordy,

The $50.00 for the 20 amp 6.3v transformer is the best $50.00 you ever spent.

You will love it and will use it far more often than you think.  Goes a tremendous way towards keeping the FA amp, cool, too...

Cheers....


.


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 16, 2018)

Ed..


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 16, 2018)

A variation from SMF experiment with TFK El11 plus Mullards  6080s.  While the Chathams/Tung Sols are great sounding  tubes (in my humble opinion some of the best U.S. made 6080s) I concur with Mordy in the sense that there is just a little bit of brightness there,  nothing to worry about in the whole of the music presentation. 


While the Chathams have stronger bass, this combo is  seductive sounding in the mids, with extended highs...an exemplary tube sound, spacious, a bit dark, full of body.  The EL11s are obviously top drivers.


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 16, 2018)

And Mordy, no letter codes on those TFKs. only numbers:  238 and 035.  The German vendor said     they were made in the Berlin factory in the early fifties.  The black coating is not very  usual.  On the other hand, I found the vintage East German RFT EL11 are excellent tubes,  at a fraction of the price of the Telefunkens...


----------



## Johnnysound

2359glenn said:


> . My 15A voltage converter is not up to handling these tubes because the start-up in rush current draw may approach 15A - have to look for a 20A voltage converter.
> 
> 
> As an aside, I broke off the guide pin to one of the tubes previously. Fixed it with crazy glue (have not seen somebody mention this before), and it seems to be working....



Why get a voltage converter when all you need is a 6.3 volt 20 amp transformer.
https://www.alliedelec.com/triad-magnetics-f-22a/70218458/[/QUOTE]

Great to have Glenn here, a privilege to learn from a real expert...and yes, a voltage converter will get really hot, while a transformer will not. But do they sound the same ?  I know this is just heater power, so the signal is not affected...in theory


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> And Mordy, no letter codes on those TFKs. only numbers:  238 and 035.  The German vendor said     they were made in the Berlin factory in the early fifties.  The black coating is not very  usual.  On the other hand, I found the vintage East German RFT EL11 are excellent tubes,  at a fraction of the price of the Telefunkens...


Hi Johhnysound,

Our resident expert on codes is Oskari. I would not be surprised if these Telefunken tubes were made by German Valvo or Loewe; RFT made very good tubes as well.
I have a pair of the Mullards, and I am going to try them with the TFK EL11 as per your recommendation.
I am starting to become a big believer in the synergy of certain driver/power tube combinations. The trick is to find the best ones...
So far my favorites are 1953-55 Foton ribbed anode with GEC and the EL11 with the Chatham 6080.
Will dig out the Mullards - haven't used them in a long time. Then I have to try CF's recipe of the Visseaux 6N7G with the 5998 tubes.....


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> And Mordy, no letter codes on those TFKs. only numbers:  238 and 035.  The German vendor said     they were made in the Berlin factory in the early fifties.  The black coating is not very  usual.  On the other hand, I found the vintage East German RFT EL11 are excellent tubes,  at a fraction of the price of the Telefunkens...


Hi js,

Just checked my inventory of EL11 tubes: I have Valvo, Philips Miniwatt, Loewe-Opta and Telefunken ST type and straight glass.
When you say that there were no letter codes on your TFK tubes, did you check the base at the pins? That's where those two little letters can be found, usually in white.
Of all of these, I found the TFK ST (shoulder type) the best sounding.
Now playing the TFKs with the Mullards. More laid back and polite, very nice and detailed mid range, but I miss the bass punch of the Chathams. Have to listen to them longer to get a more final impression.....
YMMV.....


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Our resident expert on codes is Oskari.


Thanks. I guess. 


Johnnysound said:


> And Mordy, no letter codes on those TFKs. only numbers: 238 and 035. The German vendor said they were made in the Berlin factory in the early fifties.


Do they have labels? Sometimes the factory is there in plain sight. About those numbers:


Oskari said:


> It's a batch identifier until proven otherwise.


Searching for that, I saw posts by PCT. I miss PCT.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 17, 2018)

myphone said:


> Got a pair of Telefunken EL12 sp from eBay auction. Excited to try something new. Have been strictly using 6SN7/6AS7 family tubes.



WOW! myphone...now hopefully you'll have good 'Spezial' adapters and/or ferrite chokes to remove any hum! With EL11s driving them, you should get some of the best sound possible from Euforia (or Elise!). As per @Johnnysound and @mordy East German RFT (RSD) are almost as good as - and cheaper than - TFK tubes, but TFK are definitely the best!


Searching for that, I saw posts by PCT. I miss PCT.[/QUOTE]

Me too, @Oskari 

Have plenty of time to ponder - and research - what supposedly has beneficial effects upon the quality/reproduction of 'hi-fi' sound and will post my musings further, when I have full use of my right arm once more. The cause of this one-handed stuff is VERY frustrating!...(for me, and the consultant neurologist lol!!)...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## myphone

hypnos1 said:


> WOW! myphone...now hopefully you'll have good 'Spezial' adapters and/or ferrite chokes to remove any hum! With EL11s driving them, you should get some of the best sound possible from Euforia (or Elise!). As per @Johnnysound and @mordy East German RFT (RSD) are almost as good as - and cheaper than - TFK tubes, but TFK are definitely the best!
> 
> Thank you, Hypnos 1. Any good 'Spezial' adapters would you recommend? The only ones I have found so far are from Ebay:
> 
> ...


----------



## connieflyer

That was a good price on the El12 sp, if they are in fact good tubes, you should enjoy them, and the price, if working, is good also.  Have to agree with H1, the El 11 and El12 sp are a combo that is hard to beat.  He is a very learned gentleman after all! The El combo, is very smooth, response is pretty even across the board and is very neutral. If you are a bass head don't bother, this is not going to get you to nirvana!  But they are my favorite combo, so far. Like them so well will be putting some of my tubes up for sale.  Even the GEC 6080's, although very nice indeed, don't sound as good to me as the El12 sp.  I should try the GEc's with a pair of El 11's before I sell, just to see.  That adapter should work fine. If you have hum, then run the lead straight down the tube, and pick up some ferrite  rods.


----------



## mordy (Mar 17, 2018)

Hi Johnnysound,

Listened to the EL11/Mullard6080 for a while. This combination does not cut it for me because the bass is too soft. Again, YMMV because of associated equipment and taste.

On a hunch I changed the power tubes to a pair of unsung heroes: The RCA 6080. These tubes are plentiful and inexpensive and have a great mid bass.
Paired with the EL11 they sound very good with the right amount of well controlled bass, and the mid range is very sweet.
I have maybe 6 pairs of these and especially like the late 50's early 60's variants.
IMHO they sound just as good as the EL11/Chatham6080; a little less punchy but more musical and better mid bass.
Another winner? Will let them percolate for a while before I make up my mind.....
Here is a night view: Whatever the EL11s lack in tube glow these make up:


----------



## mordy




----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 18, 2018)

If those tubes are indeed NOS or near, at $60 the pair you have stolen them!!  But even if not 100%, they still look really good...well done!

I too can only see one adapter on ebay.com, and as @connieflyer also says, you might well need (small!) ferrite chokes to remove any hum. But the expense will be more than worth it...especially given the amazing price you got the Spezials for.

And as @mordy also says, a lot depends on the setup as to what powers give the best synergy - with my own, the Spezials are by far the 'best', across all regions of the frequency spectrum (but then, I have highly treated mains power supply; DIY-adapted tubes; UP-OCC silver and copper wires for interconnects and replacement hp cable for Beyer T1s etc....which does help somewhat!! Yours should also sound very good!).

ps. For serious 'closed' listening I am carefully considering the upcoming new Sennheiser HD820, which are supposed to be closest to 'open' headphones so far, and which therefore require _serious_ consideration - you only live once, and Euforia (especially modified) deserves the best (or near!!).


----------



## myphone

Thank you, CF and HP1. Bought the EL12sp adapters. Should arrive in a couple of weeks.

My current favorite combo is clear top TS 5998 (1958) with either RCA 12SX7 or TS 12SN7 roundtop (don't have 6v version). Clear top 5998 sounds better to my ears than the same year 5998 chrome tops.


----------



## Gym_Turtle

I’ve been looking at tuberolling for my Feliks Euforia. Does anyone have any tubes that they know sound good with the Feliks Euforia? I’ve seen the Mullard 6080 mentioned a lot as well as the Sylvania 6SN7GT.


----------



## mordy

Gym_Turtle said:


> I’ve been looking at tuberolling for my Feliks Euforia. Does anyone have any tubes that they know sound good with the Feliks Euforia? I’ve seen the Mullard 6080 mentioned a lot as well as the Sylvania 6SN7GT.


Hi GT,
I have become more and more convinced that the main thing in tube rolling for the Euforia is to find synergistic combinations of driver and power tubes.
There are a number of combos that are excellent that you can find in reading the thread. Bear in mind that a tube amp manufacturer is much more limited to which tubes they can use since they need a readily available supply in quantities, whereas an individual owner just need two pairs.
IMHO there are many tubes that sound better than the OEM tubes, but some of them are rare/expensive and hard to find. On the other hand, there are inexpensive tubes that sound great as well.
In addition, your associated equipment and individual taste play a big role in how it sounds.


----------



## Gym_Turtle

mordy said:


> Hi GT,
> I have become more and more convinced that the main thing in tube rolling for the Euforia is to find synergistic combinations of driver and power tubes.
> There are a number of combos that are excellent that you can find in reading the thread. Bear in mind that a tube amp manufacturer is much more limited to which tubes they can use since they need a readily available supply in quantities, whereas an individual owner just need two pairs.
> IMHO there are many tubes that sound better than the OEM tubes, but some of them are rare/expensive and hard to find. On the other hand, there are inexpensive tubes that sound great as well.
> In addition, your associated equipment and individual taste play a big role in how it sounds.


Any tips to buying NOS tubes? As I’m new to the hobby and am wary of purchasing defective tubes.


----------



## mordy

Gym_Turtle said:


> Any tips to buying NOS tubes? As I’m new to the hobby and am wary of purchasing defective tubes.


Hi GT,
If you buy from a reputable place they should replace a defective tube. If you buy on eBay look for good feedback. In addition, eBay gives you a comprehensive warranty on purchases.
Bear in mind that a professional seller may ask $50 for a tube that you may be able to pick up for $10 from somebody selling off his grandfather's TV repair shop.
Having bought many tubes over the years it is rare to get a defective one or broken in shipping, but it could happen. However, in those rare instances the sellers always refunded the money, albeit sometimes with some prodding from eBay/PayPal.
I can't think of any tube that I wore out by use - most tubes last 3000-5000 hours, and some 10,000 hours. Because of this I am not afraid to buy a used tube that measures well.
You also have to be aware of that there are fakes out there and overpriced sellers. 
If you have specific questions about a purchase, I am sure that forum members will help you with advice.
To educate yourself, start reading the past posts......


----------



## connieflyer

You can try looking on the for sale forum here at Head-fi.  I have bought and sold tubes here before, and had great luck. UPside is, you can see their reputation here also, to give you an idea if the person has been around awhile.


----------



## Gym_Turtle

mordy said:


> Hi GT,
> If you buy from a reputable place they should replace a defective tube. If you buy on eBay look for good feedback. In addition, eBay gives you a comprehensive warranty on purchases.
> Bear in mind that a professional seller may ask $50 for a tube that you may be able to pick up for $10 from somebody selling off his grandfather's TV repair shop.
> Having bought many tubes over the years it is rare to get a defective one or broken in shipping, but it could happen. However, in those rare instances the sellers always refunded the money, albeit sometimes with some prodding from eBay/PayPal.
> ...


Thank you for all the advice, sorry if I was in anyway annoying by asking such basic questions.


----------



## connieflyer

Not a problem at all.  We all had to learn somewhere, sometime.  I did not always know EVERYTHING!  People on this forum and others have always been very helpful. When I upgraded from an Ember amp to the Elise, I went back and read the whole forum and picked up alot of information that way.  I know it is a lot of information, but it is the combined experiences of all the members that make it so valuable.  But, if you have questions, please ask, much better than making a wrong assumption and ruining your new hobby.  Take care


----------



## hypnos1

Gym_Turtle said:


> Thank you for all the advice, sorry if I was in anyway annoying by asking such basic questions.



Hi GT, and welcome...please forgive my own tardiness - am not 100% at the moment....

But others here have given you good advice already - and I do hope you can spare the time to look back in this thread for further info. Plus, the tubes mentioned in the Elise threads will also apply to Euforia...(you might need a _good_ bit of spare time lol! ...but it should be worth it...).

What I shall repeat however, is that although Elise might well offer better value-for-money, I personally have found that Euforia scales better, no matter how far up the chain you are prepared to go in_ *all* _other areas of your setup...mine, for example, I think can't go very much higher lol!! ...Good luck, and CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

H, I am sure if you try hard enough, you will find ways to spend even more money on this amplifier!. Have a good day and hope you're feeling better take care chief


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> H, I am sure if you try hard enough, you will find ways to spend even more money on this amplifier!. Have a good day and hope you're feeling better take care chief



Hey cf...PLEASE don't encourage me further - our late lamented friend pctazhp was bad enough!! 

(But I have to admit to being _very_ interested in the new and upcoming _closed_ Senn HD820! Although for less-kind listening, I still think open cans are much better!...CJ). 

And thanks again for everyone's concern...am slowly getting a bit better - methinks!!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> 
> Listened to the EL11/Mullard6080 for a while. This combination does not cut it for me because the bass is too soft. Again, YMMV because of associated equipment and taste.
> 
> ...


@mordy. Bought some old TFK EL11's a couple months ago, tried them with a few different powers, and although they sounded good I didn't feel I was getting the best from them, so I put them in their boxes and forgot about them, then I read your post about trying RCA 6080 so I thought I'd give it a try too and now they sound like the tube I hoped they might be, quite warm, yet detailed, with good mid and upper bass giving them a really nice timbre, sounds particularly good with jazz, at least to my ears, so thanks mordy for a great "hunch", you've rescued my EL11's .


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> @mordy. Bought some old TFK EL11's a couple months ago, tried them with a few different powers, and although they sounded good I didn't feel I was getting the best from them, so I put them in their boxes and forgot about them, then I read your post about trying RCA 6080 so I thought I'd give it a try too and now they sound like the tube I hoped they might be, quite warm, yet detailed, with good mid and upper bass giving them a really nice timbre, sounds particularly good with jazz, at least to my ears, so thanks mordy for a great "hunch", you've rescued my EL11's .


Hi Scutey,
Glad to hear that you enjoy this combination. I am becoming more and more convinced that what you need to find is great synergy between driver and power tubes.
The EL11 shines with the GEC6080, Chatham 6080 and RCA 6080. Maybe the GEC tubes sound the best, but they are very expensive and hard to find. The Chathams have more bass punch, and the RCA a great mid bass. 
Any one of these combinations will please. I have been listening to the EL11/RCA6080 for several days now, and I don't feel that I am lacking anything in the presentation. All three combinations sound a little different but all are very good.
Yep, another winner.....


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> Glad to hear that you enjoy this combination. I am becoming more and more convinced that what you need to find is great synergy between driver and power tubes.
> The EL11 shines with the GEC6080, Chatham 6080 and RCA 6080. Maybe the GEC tubes sound the best, but they are very expensive and hard to find. The Chathams have more bass punch, and the RCA a great mid bass.
> Any one of these combinations will please. I have been listening to the EL11/RCA6080 for several days now, and I don't feel that I am lacking anything in the presentation. All three combinations sound a little different but all are very good.
> Yep, another winner.....


Hi mordy,
I'd certainly like to give the GEC and the Chatham a go, about 2/3 months ago I had the chance to buy a pair of lightly used GEC 6080 for less than going price for one NOS, unfortunately I hesitated and guess what?, yep gone!, however with your discovery of the RCA I've finally recovered lol, oh and I'm still loving are old fave the Foton ribber anode, surely the best bang for buck 6sn7/6n8s you can get!.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Hi mordy,
> I'd certainly like to give the GEC and the Chatham a go, about 2/3 months ago I had the chance to buy a pair of lightly used GEC 6080 for less than going price for one NOS, unfortunately I hesitated and guess what?, yep gone!, however with your discovery of the RCA I've finally recovered lol, oh and I'm still loving are old fave the Foton ribber anode, surely the best bang for buck 6sn7/6n8s you can get!.


Hi Scutey,
Did you try the Foton ribbed anode with the RCAs? I haven't yet, but it might be an idea...
OK, just did a quick "spark plug" change:




Sounds really good with a meaty bass.
This combo got to be the bargain king - Yugo price for a Lexus (or do they say Morris Minor price for a Jaguar in the UK?)


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> Did you try the Foton ribbed anode with the RCAs? I haven't yet, but it might be an idea...
> OK, just did a quick "spark plug" change:
> 
> ...


Hi mordy,

Yes I have tried this combo and it's very good, meaty bass is a very apt description!, it seems to give the Foton's more weight, a somewhat "bigger sound", tried this combo on the soundtrack to Blade Runner 2049, all I can say is it was a bit of a jaw dropper, most of the soundtrack is ambient and the Fotons/RCA realy brought out the texture of the music, wonderful!.

And yes right again about the Morris minor analogy, if only you* could* get a Jag for Morris Minor money, well I can dream!


----------



## Scutey

Btw mordy, have you tried the GE 6AS7G with the Foton?.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Btw mordy, have you tried the GE 6AS7G with the Foton?.


Not yet, but I would expect it to sound similar to the GEC 6080. Will try later...


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Not yet, but I would expect it to sound similar to the GEC 6080. Will try later...


I think that's my combo for this eve!.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Not yet, but I would expect it to sound similar to the GEC 6080. Will try later...


Hi Scutey,
Later is now - these tubes are so expensive that they are only exercised on a clear Sunday summer day, but in the interest of scientific research we'll make an exception:



The going price is around $300 each today.
How do they sound with the Fotons? Excellent, with a very even frequency response top to bottom, and with what DecentLevi called "mythical energy."
But I am going to save these investment grade tubes and put them away in my safe (really a shoe box).Instead I will use my other category of tubes called "GEC savers" such as the RCA6080 (which have more of an emphasis on the mid bass range).
And truth is, I am just as happy listening to those tubes even if the GEC 6AS7G offers a little more. 
And while I am it, maybe try the Bendix 6080WB with the Fotons. A carbon plate tube developed for inter continental missiles got to be good......


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> A carbon plate tube developed for inter continental missiles got to be good......



Intercontinental ballistic missiles are BAD, Mordy...let's hope the tubes FAIL   <GGG>


----------



## Scutey

Oh wouldn't I love some of those Bendix, one day perhaps.


----------



## attmci (Mar 23, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> Later is now - these tubes are so expensive that they are only exercised on a clear Sunday summer day, but in the interest of scientific research we'll make an exception:
> 
> The going price is around $300 each today.
> ...


Lol, finally, you are getting there. Don't store these, make them sing....

BTW, the GECs deserve much better driver tubes than those in the picture.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Lol, finally, you are getting there. Don't store these, make them sing....
> 
> BTW, the GECs deserve much better driver tubes than those in the picture.


Hi attmci,

Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.


----------



## mordy

JazzVinyl said:


> Intercontinental ballistic missiles are BAD, Mordy...let's hope the tubes FAIL   <GGG>


Hi JV,

Agree that inter continental missiles are bad (especially if they are pointing towards us). But I was just speaking about the tubes... Come to think about it, a lot of tubes were developed for the military - I know that you enjoy this favorite VT-231JAN (Joint Army-Navy) tube:


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
> These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.


Hi mordy,

Spot on, I also have a pair of 56 year regular Foton's and they are not in the same league as the ribbed anode's, imo they lack the dynamics that make the ra's such a great sounding tube, one year earlier makes all the difference!.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi attmci,
> 
> Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
> These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.


Thanks for the info. But I am not buying now.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> Thanks for the info. But I am not buying now.


Hi attmci,

Can sympathize with that - I myself have way too many tubes! 
There are a few on my want list, but I would only strike if I got a super duper deal, which happens sometimes...
My last purchase was Cetron 6336B 5A tubes. I don't have an amp for them yet - maybe I should use them for room heaters lol........
Should you get the itch to buy again, you can get four of the 54-55 Fotons for around $34 shipped. These tubes have the look of Communist worker housing - drab and dreary, and almost no tube glow, but they really sound absolutely great.


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 29, 2018)

Yet another variation of the EL11s/6080 theme, this time with mid sixties (?) NEC 6080s.  While the bass is just a bit less prominent vs. the Chatham’s, I feel it is tighter and better defined, and more importantly, the NECs have probably  the same midrange “magic” and substance of the Mullards. But the exceptional highs, the control, the definition, the whole presentation which is more on the neutral side is what set these tubes apart from the other two: a very linear, seriously good sounding tube that is a great match with the quiet and quite accurate  TFK EL11...

As commented in previous posts, this is no surprise considering the top notch pedigree of the NEC 6080s, made in Japan  by a (in those years) wholly owned subsidiary of the famed Western Electric Company.  In fact, and as far as I know, WE never produced the 6080 in the U.S., so we can assume they assigned the production of this particular model to their Japanese branch, perhaps in an early effort to reduce costs...anyway, the tube is substantial, very well made and shows certain similarities with other U.S. tubes of the era.  Can this one be THE real, the one and only WE 6080 ever produced ?  Who knows, but it sounds like it.

It is not that easy to find, but generally is very fairly priced, I got my NOS pair from a British ebay vendor for about $ 25 plus shipping (another $ 18) which is a giveaway for this level of tubes...


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 29, 2018)

And only after reading about it, I noticed a detail that now looks obvious but it was not:  NEC stands for Nippon Electric Company,  the brainchild of Western Electric Company.  And there is a lot more to know  about this company.  WE performed the very first  joint venture with foreign investment in Japan, creating NEC   with Japanese partners back in 1898.  The company flourished in the lucrative telephone and telecommunications business, until about 1938 when ultra nationalist parties began to harass  and then seized  WE assets in Japan,  before the total rupture during WWII.

By 1941, NEC was one of the foremost hi tech telecom companies in Japan, taken by the military for all their needs, with only a little problem:  their main factory, a huge installation, was located in Tokyo, and so obvious a target was destroyed   around 1945 by massive bombing, courtesy of the U.S. Air Force.

You may say this history is off topic, no relation at all with tubes.  The U.S. government faced the enormous task of the reconstruction of Japan in the post war years,  it was of great strategic importance the telecommunications and electronic industry in particular, and you know, tube production require very special machinery...all lost in the war.

Having already interests in  Japan, Western Electric was one of the first U.S. companies required by Washington to help, in this case rebuild the NEC factories, of course backed by massive federal funds and a long term exclusivity contract.   This was by far the greatest deal in the history of WE:  the telephony equipment manufacture in Japan soared to a multi billion worldwide business, until the giant AT&T bought WE in the early eighties...

It is well known the tale of Philips, bringing Mullard tube machinery to Japan after taking  over the british company.  This obviously improved  the quality of some Japanese brands...but not a single word is heard about Western Electric.  Very discreet operation indeed, many years  before Philips.  And they used American  machinery for sure,  classic Western Electric, no less...so the similarities between some Japanese and American tubes are not casual,  and by no means a “copy” as some ignorant souls dare to say...


----------



## mordy

Hi J,
Very interesting read - thanks.
I have some Channel Master branded Japanese 6SN7 tubes that sound very good. 
It took me a long time to identify the manufacturer- NEC (courtesy of Google Images).


----------



## Oskari

The NEC–WE connection did exist. But:


Johnnysound said:


> In fact, and as far as I know, WE never produced the 6080 in the U.S., so we can assume they assigned the production of this particular model to their Japanese branch, perhaps in an early effort to reduce costs...anyway, the tube is substantial, very well made and shows certain similarities with other U.S. tubes of the era. Can this one be THE real, the one and only WE 6080 ever produced ? Who knows, but it sounds like it.


Well, I don't think so. WE had the 421A. They did not need the 6080.


Johnnysound said:


> It is well known the tale of Philips, bringing Mullard tube machinery to Japan after taking over the british company.


That is an inaccurate tale. Philips owned Mullard fully from 1927 on. The Philips–Matsush¡ta technology transfer did not consist of disused Mullard equipment.


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 30, 2018)

Oskari said:


> The NEC–WE connection did exist. But:
> 
> Well, I don't think so. WE had the 421A. They did not need the 6080..



Hi Oskari, I am no expert, but understand that the 6080 was an “upgraded” version of the 6AS7G, in a more compact format, while the WE 421A is similar to the 5998, a different tube. And all U.S major manufactures started producing 6080s, in great quantities, replacing the 6AS7Gs.  WE never produced in the U.S. the 6AS7G, or the 6080, at the time the best seller of the family.  Who knows, but what is certain is that this company had a strong industrial base in Japan, with lower costs, so my theory is that they decided to produce certain types of tubes in Japan, for a global market.  On the other hand, Western Electric or not,  the NEC 6080 is an outstanding power tube in the Euforia, so I really don’t care who designed it.  I found certain construction similarities  with some U.S. tubes, but the tube is bigger, more substantial, and also is similar to the Mullards:  it works very hot and glows fiery red...the Euforia gets hot, too...

That is an inaccurate tale. Philips owned Mullard fully from 1927 on. The Philips–Matsush¡ta technology transfer did not consist of disused Mullard equipment.[/QUOTE]

Most probably is very inaccurate, but it is there.  And I never talked about disused equipment, but you are right, the tale says that.  The question is, when this technology transfer took place ?  This was high tech before the war and very sensitive, so all British technology transfer to Japan ceased around 1940, a bit too late...we are talking about the post war years, and no doubt Philips/Mullard used their very best technology in Japan


----------



## Johnnysound (Mar 31, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi J,
> Very interesting read - thanks.
> I have some Channel Master branded Japanese 6SN7 tubes that sound very good.
> It took me a long time to identify the manufacturer- NEC (courtesy of Google Images).



Hi Mordy,

How could you identify the manufacturer ? In my small collection of 6SN7s I have some ITT (Hitachi) and Raytheon International (Toshiba), none says “made in Japan”.  Never imagined “Channel Master” were made by NEC. Anyway, mine are also  very  good sounding tubes...

Of course we got the rebranded ones , the same tubes.   Toshibas cost a lot more, since they have kind of a cult following, but  in my personal opinion the Hitachis sound even better, great bass, punch and tonality.  Sleepers, they say


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Oskari, I am no expert, but understand that the 6080 was an “upgraded” version of the 6AS7G, in a more compact format, while the WE 421A is similar to the 5998, a different tube. And all U.S major manufactures started producing 6080s, in great quantities, replacing the 6AS7Gs.  WE never produced in the U.S. the 6AS7G, or the 6080, at the time the best seller of the family.


Yes, it's a bit different but serves a similar purpose.


Johnnysound said:


> Most probably is very inaccurate, but it is there.  And I never talked about disused equipment, but you are right, the tale says that.  The question is, when this technology transfer took place ?  This was high tech before the war and very sensitive, so all British technology transfer to Japan ceased around 1940, a bit too late...we are talking about the post war years, and no doubt Philips/Mullard used their very best technology in Japan


1952 on. See:

https://www.panasonic.com/global/corporate/history/chronicle/1952.html
BTW, this was Dutch rather than British.


----------



## mordy (Apr 1, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Mordy,
> 
> How could you identify the manufacturer ? In my small collection of 6SN7s I have some ITT (Hitachi) and Raytheon International (Toshiba), none says “made in Japan”.  Never imagined “Channel Master” were made by NEC. Anyway, mine are also  very  good sounding tubes...
> 
> Of course we got the rebranded ones , the same tubes.   Toshibas cost a lot more, since they have kind of a cult following, but  in my personal opinion the Hitachis sound even better, great bass, punch and tonality.  Sleepers, they say


Hi Johnnysound,
Channel Mater was a rebrander and used tubes from different countries and manufacturers. I liked the Made in Japan 6SN7GTB tubes, but could not find out which company made them in Japan.
I went to Google Images and scrolled though a lot of pictures until I came across photos from and old eBay listing with NEC tubes that looked exactly the same as the Channel Master tubes.
Just checked today - there are several Channel Master 6SN7GTB tubes for sale at very reasonable prices.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Channel+Master+6SN&GTB&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.XChannel+Master+6SN7.TRS1&_nkw=Channel+Master+6SN7&_sacat=0


----------



## myphone

Received.

Need clarification before I plug them in Euforia output sockets. Do I need any other adjustment or just plug in and play?

Thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

Just make sure wire is secure and plug them in.  Have been using them for quite awhile, nice setup with El 11's


----------



## myphone

Thank, CF.



connieflyer said:


> Just make sure wire is secure and plug them in.  Have been using them for quite awhile, nice setup with El 11's



Thank you, CF.


----------



## connieflyer

You are welcome, hope you enjoy them.  Make sure you let them burn in, these tubes will last awhile, and they get better with age.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> You are welcome, hope you enjoy them.  Make sure you let them burn in, these tubes will last awhile, and they get better with age.



Both tubes measured NOS. They are getting heater current only. Let them burn for a few days before I put them in real amp. EL12sp does not draw much current.


----------



## connieflyer

That is another nice feature, with the El 11 and el12 spez amp never gets even warm.  Great in the summer


----------



## myphone

Plugged in EL12sp in Euforia, very loud hum, as others reported before.

Euforia is completely silent with 421A, 5998 and other 6080 tubes.

Will tweak a bit after Tax season.


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 7, 2018)

duplicate


----------



## connieflyer

You may want to tuck the lead in close to the tube like this...

 these were made up for me by a friend of mine and I have no hum at all.  Others have used ferrite beads  https://www.amazon.com/stardrift-10...pID=51qZBDD4rrL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch like these.


----------



## attmci

myphone said:


> Plugged in EL12sp in Euforia, very loud hum, as others reported before.
> 
> Euforia is completely silent with 421A, 5998 and other 6080 tubes.
> 
> Will tweak a bit after Tax season.


The adapter says "6SN7". Can you use these as driver tubes?


----------



## myphone

attmci said:


> The adapter says "6SN7". Can you use these as driver tubes?



Attmci, I have not tried them as driver tubes yet. Old posts from this thread preferred them as power tubes over driver driver tubes.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> You may want to tuck the lead in close to the tube like this... these were made up for me by a friend of mine and I have no hum at all.  Others have used ferrite beads  https://www.amazon.com/stardrift-10...pID=51qZBDD4rrL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch like these.



Thanks, CF. Bought ferrite clips.


----------



## attmci

myphone said:


> Attmci, I have not tried them as driver tubes yet. Old posts from this thread preferred them as power tubes over driver driver tubes.


I see. Play safe!


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> I see. Play safe!


Today I tried CF's recipe of Mazda 6N7G as drivers and Tung Sol 5998 as power tubes - nice tube glow to impress your neighbors lol:



In the past I had objectionable hum with the Mazdas; this time I removed the socket savers as per Scutney's suggestion. There was still hum, but less objectionable, and by balancing the volume control on my integrated amp and the Euforia, I did not hear any hum at normal listening levels.
Haven't used the Mazdas in a long time, and it seemed to me that they needed to "wake up" to come into their full right. (Occasionally I have had the experience that some very old tubes need an couple of hours to get into shape, or even longer. I have a Valvo El11 somewhere that literally did not wake up from it's sleep until after 24 hours.)

The mid range was nice, but ultimately the sound did not please me. In addition, the amp seemed to run too hot and I was uncomfortable keeping the tubes in it.
So sorry, CF, this did not work for me -YMMV. Could be the tubes I am using or whatever.....
Back to 1955 ribbed anode Fotons and GEC6080s and I am happy listening  again.


----------



## connieflyer

It was probably the Mazda's.  I use the Visseaux  6n7G. Everyone is different


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> You may want to tuck the lead in close to the tube like this... these were made up for me by a friend of mine and I have no hum at all.  Others have used ferrite beads  https://www.amazon.com/stardrift-10...pID=51qZBDD4rrL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch like these.



Thank you, CF. 

Ferrite clips are on. They are cheap. Five on each side

Hum is complete gone. Amp is silent. Sound is clean and clear. Will let the tubes burn in.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Thank you, CF.
> 
> Ferrite clips are on. They are cheap. Five on each side
> 
> Hum is complete gone. Amp is silent. Sound is clean and clear. Will let the tubes burn in.


Hi mp,
Interesting that you put on 10 of them. In the past people only used one per wire - did you try if less is more lol?


----------



## myphone (Apr 9, 2018)

Not yet, Mordy.

Ferrite came today,10 in a package.

Happy that they work.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Not yet, Mordy.
> 
> Ferrite came today,10 in a package.
> 
> Happy that they work.


I think that the credit for bringing attention to the ferrite cores goes to hpamdr. Before this simple and inexpensive tweak people were going bonkers on how to reduce the hum from the anode wires.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi Johhnysound,
> ...
> I am starting to become a big believer in the synergy of certain driver/power tube combinations. The trick is to find the best ones...
> So far my favorites are 1953-55 Foton ribbed anode with GEC (6080) and the EL11 with the Chatham 6080.
> Will dig out the Mullards - haven't used them in a long time. Then I have to try CF's recipe of the Visseaux 6N7G with the 5998 tubes.....



Well by the end of this week I'll have the privilege of giving my Euforia what she needs - POWER! Coming back to the US and waking her up from 10 months of depression (er.. hopefully 'hibernation') , packaged and stored carefully. I distinctly remember that wall to wall boundlessly holographic, nearly effortless sound, immediate dynamics, velvety mids and realism in droves that I got from my top setups, namely Bendix 6080 slotted graphite plates + RCA 6SN7 GT newest smoked glass style; and the EL12 Spez as powers with many driver pairings ranging from the 'miniature' (ECC88) class to 6SN7s. While the EL12+EL11 for me sounded a bit on the thin/bright side, the EL12 x4 combo evened it out, though perhaps still a bit rich / sweet or 'overdone' on my system.

I'll also be trying your above GEC combo with two sets of Fotons, thanks for the tips. Ah yes Mordy, 'synergy'. Perhaps you're revisiting something we've known on these F-A threads for a while. *The explainable realm of what makes four of the best tubes sound 'meh' together, while two random pairs of 'average-Joes' can mysteriously steal the show.* The only real way to find out which tubes sound best is to try all that you can (within reason) on your system - use a process of elimination and after exhausting all mathematically possible combinations you can formulate a list of which sound good on your system with your own up/downstream gear and your own ears... which can and do vary greatly from others.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Well by the end of this week I'll have the privilege of giving my Euforia what she needs - POWER! Coming back to the US and waking her up from 10 months of depression (er.. hopefully 'hibernation') , packaged and stored carefully. I distinctly remember that wall to wall boundlessly holographic, nearly effortless sound, immediate dynamics, velvety mids and realism in droves that I got from my top setups, namely Bendix 6080 slotted graphite plates + RCA 6SN7 GT newest smoked glass style; and the EL12 Spez as powers with many driver pairings ranging from the 'miniature' (ECC88) class to 6SN7s. While the EL12+EL11 for me sounded a bit on the thin/bright side, the EL12 x4 combo evened it out, though perhaps still a bit rich / sweet or 'overdone' on my system.
> 
> I'll also be trying your above GEC combo with two sets of Fotons, thanks for the tips. Ah yes Mordy, 'synergy'. Perhaps you're revisiting something we've known on these F-A threads for a while. *The explainable realm of what makes four of the best tubes sound 'meh' together, while two random pairs of 'average-Joes' can mysteriously steal the show.* The only real way to find out which tubes sound best is to try all that you can (within reason) on your system - use a process of elimination and after exhausting all mathematically possible combinations you can formulate a list of which sound good on your system with your own up/downstream gear and your own ears... which can and do vary greatly from others.


Hi DL,
Welcome back from your world trip!
Still enjoying the Senn 380?
Going back to Tesla?
BTW, some of us have moved on to 2359glenn territory ......


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 11, 2018)

Thanks for the sentiment. Actually I didn't have the chance to get the HD-380 yet just because my luggage is already overstuffed, still overseas, and managing an online business from anywhere - so as of now, no need for a 'brick & mortar' job for me, but also scacely any time for Head-Fi.

Most likely Glenn Amps would be the next step up the ladder for me too, if I weren't traveling so much however. In all the 8-10 trade shows / meets I've been to, never seen any of them on display, it's a shame... (@2359glenn take note). I've known UT has progressed to there, wonder who else.

PS - about PCT, is he no longer "with us"? A recent post had me wondering this. (I can edit this upon request)


----------



## 2359glenn

Most likely Glenn Amps would be the next step up the ladder for me too, if I weren't traveling so much however. In all the 8-10 trade shows / meets I've been to, never seen any of them on display, it's a shame... (@2359glenn take note). I've known UT has progressed to there, wonder who else.

DL Can't do it Health issues (stage 4 cancer) plus a full time job.  Unless they have some meets in North Carolina or close that I can easily get to.


----------



## connieflyer

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for the sentiment. Actually I didn't have the chance to get the HD-380 yet just because my luggage is already overstuffed, still overseas, and managing an online business from anywhere - so as of now, no need for a 'brick & mortar' job for me, but also scacely any time for Head-Fi.
> 
> Most likely Glenn Amps would be the next step up the ladder for me too, if I weren't traveling so much however. In all the 8-10 trade shows / meets I've been to, never seen any of them on display, it's a shame... (@2359glenn take note). I've known UT has progressed to there, wonder who else.
> 
> PS - about PCT, is he no longer "with us"? A recent post had me wondering this. (I can edit this upon request)





DecentLevi said:


> Well by the end of this week I'll have the privilege of giving my Euforia what she needs - POWER! Coming back to the US and waking her up from 10 months of depression (er.. hopefully 'hibernation') , packaged and stored carefully. I distinctly remember that wall to wall boundlessly holographic, nearly effortless sound, immediate dynamics, velvety mids and realism in droves that I got from my top setups, namely Bendix 6080 slotted graphite plates + RCA 6SN7 GT newest smoked glass style; and the EL12 Spez as powers with many driver pairings ranging from the 'miniature' (ECC88) class to 6SN7s. While the EL12+EL11 for me sounded a bit on the thin/bright side, the EL12 x4 combo evened it out, though perhaps still a bit rich / sweet or 'overdone' on my system.
> 
> I'll also be trying your above GEC combo with two sets of Fotons, thanks for the tips. Ah yes Mordy, 'synergy'. Perhaps you're revisiting something we've known on these F-A threads for a while. *The explainable realm of what makes four of the best tubes sound 'meh' together, while two random pairs of 'average-Joes' can mysteriously steal the show.* The only real way to find out which tubes sound best is to try all that you can (within reason) on your system - use a process of elimination and after exhausting all mathematically possible combinations you can formulate a list of which sound good on your system with your own up/downstream gear and your own ears... which can and do vary greatly from others.


----------



## connieflyer

DL PCT aka Phil, passed away the end of January.  Cancer built up rather quickly. Good man, and loyal friend. Truely missed. Sorry to hear about your situation as well, wishing you all the best, Don


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for the sentiment. Actually I didn't have the chance to get the HD-380 yet just because my luggage is already overstuffed, still overseas, and managing an online business from anywhere - so as of now, no need for a 'brick & mortar' job for me, but also scacely any time for Head-Fi.
> 
> Most likely Glenn Amps would be the next step up the ladder for me too, if I weren't traveling so much however. In all the 8-10 trade shows / meets I've been to, never seen any of them on display, it's a shame... (@2359glenn take note). I've known UT has progressed to there, wonder who else.
> 
> PS - about PCT, is he no longer "with us"? A recent post had me wondering this. (I can edit this upon request)



Hi there DL...welcome back to head-fi land.

As @connieflyer told you, I'm afraid our good friend Phil was taken from us quickly, and far too soon...life just ain't fair very often!  He is indeed much missed.
It is also sad news that @2359glenn has health issues...commiserations to him also...(no wonder he can't attend any major shows lol!).

As for your own future, travel certainly does limit one's participation in this hobby of ours....but if time (and funds!) permit later, you might want to wait and see if F-A's new 2A3 flagship amp makes the light of day this year...it is on course to be right up there with the very best. Just hope they can keep the price competitive!!

ps. I personally don't find anything missing whatsoever with the EL11/EL12 Spezial combo...in fact it reproduces all genres of music better than any combo I've tried...regardless of price! But, as I've mentioned many times before, this is probably due to everything else in the system fortunately being of very high calibre, plus my own tube adapting, using pure silver and single-crystal copper wires lol! But then, everyones' ears/brain/preferences are also different, of course!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 12, 2018)

myphone said:


> Not yet, Mordy.
> 
> Ferrite came today,10 in a package.
> 
> Happy that they work.



Am happy too, myphone...hope you like the EL12 Spezial! (but I find they perform best with EL11s as drivers...after long burn-in lol!! ).


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 12, 2018)

Hi @hypnos1, nice to CU still around too. I recon a hypnotist was on order for that arm of yours, since you're typing again right? . Otherwise I think I speak for everybody when I say if you only have the use of one arm, we'll totally understand if you want to take it easy. Yes I have no doubt the EL11+12's 'sing' in your system, and I do believe up/downstream gear or 'synergy' plays a large role, sounding better in some systems than others.
  It really comes down to how a specific tube plays with a specific amp _(in our case two pairs),_ which can otherwise sound different from just one year of manufacture, or even different copies of the same tube. So for anyone new here, don't be afraid to try tubes to see how they pair in your own amp - check first on compatibility of course, and you can usually sell/return the ones you don't keep.

Also I must mention @2359glenn once more - indeed it would be a logistical nightmare to make every meet even in perfect health. My suggestion was more on order of sending demo units by way of courier or trade partner, or even encouraging fellow hobbyists to bring their units to a show. Also will you still be fulfilling new orders in your condition? I'm not ready but wanted to know this one... feel free to reply by PM.


----------



## attmci

2359glenn said:


> Most likely Glenn Amps would be the next step up the ladder for me too, if I weren't traveling so much however. In all the 8-10 trade shows / meets I've been to, never seen any of them on display, it's a shame... (@2359glenn take note). I've known UT has progressed to there, wonder who else.
> 
> DL Can't do it Health issues (stage 4 cancer) plus a full time job.  Unless they have some meets in North Carolina or close that I can easily get to.


Could you please ask your doc for Keytruda? Best wishes.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hi @hypnos1, nice to CU still around too. I recon a hypnotist was on order for that arm of yours, since you're typing again right? . Otherwise I think I speak for everybody when I say if you only have the use of one arm, we'll totally understand if you want to take it easy. Yes I have no doubt the EL11+12's 'sing' in your system, and I do believe up/downstream gear or 'synergy' plays a large role, sounding better in some systems than others.
> It really comes down to how a specific tube plays with a specific amp _(in our case two pairs),_ which can otherwise sound different from just one year of manufacture, or even different copies of the same tube. So for anyone new here, don't be afraid to try tubes to see how they pair in your own amp - check first on compatibility of course, and you can usually sell/return the ones you don't keep.
> 
> Also I must mention @2359glenn once more - indeed it would be a logistical nightmare to make every meet even in perfect health. My suggestion was more on order of sending demo units by way of courier or trade partner, or even encouraging fellow hobbyists to bring their units to a show. Also will you still be fulfilling new orders in your condition? I'm not ready but wanted to know this one... feel free to reply by PM.



Hi DL...yes indeed, even the same type of tube can sound a bit different from one to the next...there are so many variables affecting final sound output - more so with our tube amps, compared to SS lol! So as you say, one must try sometimes a good many tubes before making a final(?!!) decision!

As for my own health situation, I continue to make good progress - and I don't any more need only my left arm to do most things, fortunately! My 2nd MRI scan yesterday should hopefully confirm to the neurologist that it was indeed (rare) complications post-Chicken Pox that were the culprit...that only time can heal anyway, lol!!

And this certainly won't prevent me from giving a full impression of F-A's new amp - when it finally arrives!


----------



## connieflyer

H you are more than a match for us,even with only one arm fully functional! New amp and speakers still doing well. Thanks for all you have imparted to us. A gentleman and scholar!


----------



## hypnos1

Many thanks @connieflyer ...one-handed typing is indeed no fun lol! 

Your Anthem surround receiver and new speakers must give you a great sound...you now have a wonderful choice of just how to listen!!

I myself am still deliberating whether to go for the upcoming new 'closed' Sennheiser HD820 - not so many quiet midnight (or just before!) sessions these days...getting old, mon ami?! I still love my open T1s - especially with replacement DIY UP-OCC silver and copper wires! - but I think a _good_ set of 'open-like' closed cans may also be on the cards...especially as savings here look to continue losing their value for ages to come!! ...decisions, decisions!


----------



## connieflyer

I know what you mean, splurging now and then can be good for your mental health!  The new sub really shakes the house up.


----------



## DecentLevi

Always be perceptive... even with an amp


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...yes indeed, even the same type of tube can sound a bit different from one to the next...there are so many variables affecting final sound output - more so with our tube amps, compared to SS lol! So as you say, one must try sometimes a good many tubes before making a final(?!!) decision!
> 
> As for my own health situation, I continue to make good progress - and I don't any more need only my left arm to do most things, fortunately! My 2nd MRI scan yesterday should hopefully confirm to the neurologist that it was indeed (rare) complications post-Chicken Pox that were the culprit...that only time can heal anyway, lol!!
> 
> And this certainly won't prevent me from giving a full impression of F-A's new amp - when it finally arrives!


Hi h1,

Wishing you a complete and speedy recovery!
Re the new amp from FA, I recall asking about their most expensive amp back then . My question was if it sounded better than the Elise, and the answer was no, just that it had more power to drive speakers.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Wishing you a complete and speedy recovery!
> Re the new amp from FA, I recall asking about their most expensive amp back then . My question was if it sounded better than the Elise, and the answer was no, just that it had more power to drive speakers.



Thanks mordy...will do my best lol!

Re. the new amp...this is to be a totally different animal to the one they had back then. Wish I could show the early projected design, but promises are promises!! I hope to have more info for folks when F-A are closer to prototype...I wait patiently!


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi mp,
> Interesting that you put on 10 of them. In the past people only used one per wire - did you try if less is more lol?



Yes, one ferrite clip per side makes hum completely gone.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> Yes, one ferrite clip per side makes hum completely gone.


Now you are good for another 4 pairs of tubes with anode wires lol.....


----------



## myphone (Apr 14, 2018)

mordy said:


> Now you are good for another 4 pairs of tubes with anode wires lol.....



Haha, Mordy. The ferrite beads will last a life time.

In the meantime, I have many regular power tubes to play around: 3 different types of 5998, WE 421A, GEC 6080, Mullard 6080, TS 7236 and various 6080/6AS7s.

The tube I really want to try is GEC 6AS7. Have not found one at reasonable price.


----------



## connieflyer

What do you consider a reasonable price?  I have the GEC 6AS7 and GEC 6080's and  I do like the 6AS7's a little better.I bought mine from Langrex last year, they were new and I believe I paid a little over $500 for them at that time.  I bought the 6080's first because I could not find any 6as7's but shortly after I received them the 6as7's became available. Do prefer the 6as7's. Neither pair get much use as I listen mostly with the El 11-12 Spez, but now don't use the headphone amp as much as I upgraded my music system with a new amp and speakers.


----------



## myphone (Apr 14, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> What do you consider a reasonable price?  I have the GEC 6AS7 and GEC 6080's and  I do like the 6AS7's a little better.I bought mine from Langrex last year, they were new and I believe I paid a little over $500 for them at that time.  I bought the 6080's first because I could not find any 6as7's but shortly after I received them the 6as7's became available. Do prefer the 6as7's. Neither pair get much use as I listen mostly with the El 11-12 Spez, but now don't use the headphone amp as much as I upgraded my music system with a new amp and speakers.



CF, i don't know what reasonable price for 6AS7 is. All seems to be > $ 500 /pair. I have some 5998s bought years ago for DV 336.

After ordered Euforia, I was able to get GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080 (slotted and graphic), for about $100/pair. Mullard 6080 $ 60-70/pair. TS 6080 $10 /each (in lots) and and 5998 &50 each (lot of 5). Some untested by sellers, most turned out NOS on my tester. all were from Ebay.

The only exception was a pair of 5998, Bendix 6080 slotted, and TS 6080WA from a former Elise owner, a bit more than above, right after I received Euforia.

The most expensive pair was a pair of WE 421A, auction at eBay last month. Looked NIB. accidentally placed bid a bit higher than my comfort level, > $ 300 a pair.  Was nervous until tubes showed up NIB, measured perfect.

I mainly use HD800 and T1, so Euforia works out.


----------



## connieflyer

Nics Group of tubes. I also use the Sennheiser 800 as my main phone and then I also have a few others got a 400 I and Sennheiser 700 I mainly use the 800. When I sold my Elise I got rid of probably 20 tubes, now with the Euforia still have about 15 or 20 pair more than I'll ever need I'm sure.


----------



## myphone

I also have plenty of 7236. For some reasons, price of the above mentioned tubes was much better prices last years.

Driver tubes, i mainly use 6SN7 and 12SX7/12SN7. a couple hundreds of them. But still don't have the European equivalents.


----------



## mordy

Today my 20A voltage regulator arrived. The previous one I used was rated 15A but not strong enough to handle the Quarter Pounder power tubes - the Cetron 6336B.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-300W-20...tep-Down-Converter-Voltage-Buck/222637386210?
hash=item33d638e9e2:g:K18AAOSw6Q1ZsRox

(There are many sellers - I paid $8.10 for mine and it arrived in a very short 12 days)
It appears that this voltage converter made a difference - the sound is improved. The prodigious bass is immediately noticeable.
So far I just tried it out with an eye on how hot the heat sinks get. The heat sinks are roughly twice as large as on my old 15A voltage regulator - 1" high, 3/8" thick and 1 3/4" wide. I put the converter near my 4" cooling fan, and the temperature does not exceed 100F and there is no danger in touching the heat sink fins (not something I can say about the 5A Cetrons).




The driver tubes are TFK EL11 - nice, vivid and impactful presentation, but need more time to arrive at conclusions.....
Have fun!


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2018)

mordy said:


> Today my 20A voltage regulator arrived. The previous one I used was rated 15A but not strong enough to handle the Quarter Pounder power tubes - the Cetron 6336B.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-300W-20...tep-Down-Converter-Voltage-Buck/222637386210?
> hash=item33d638e9e2:g:K18AAOSw6Q1ZsRox
> ...



Wow Mordy, you're a die-hard innovator. I would really like to hear a comparison between Cetron 6336B vs. your other top chosen power tube setups, when you have time. No need for an in-depth analysis, just sound impressions the way you hear it... though if you can also include headphones for the comparison that would be super, because I'm finding some of your recent suggestions to sound different on headphones than you probably hear it using speakers.

PS - which adapter are you using? And I take it that setup plays nice with "Mr. Humphrey", right?


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Wow Mordy, you're a die-hard innovator. I would really like to hear a comparison between Cetron 6336B vs. your other top chosen power tube setups, when you have time. No need for an in-depth analysis, just sound impressions the way you hear it... though if you can also include headphones for the comparison that would be super, because I'm finding some of your recent suggestions to sound different on headphones than you probably hear it using speakers.
> 
> PS - which adapter are you using? And I take it that setup plays nice with "Mr. Humphrey", right?


Hi DL,
I draw my inspiration from the Glenn Super 9 OTL which has six power tube sockets. Owners have reported very good results using two 6336 tubes and a driver.
The adapter I use is especially made for the Feliks Elise/Euforia by Mrs Xuling and has room for 6 octal tubes. It requires an external power source. I use a run-of-the mill 450W PC power supply that I had as a spare. Then connect the 12V lead to the 20A voltage regulator and setting it to 6.3V. (The previously used voltage regulator was rated at 15A but did not have enough juice for these 10A worth of tubes and sounded hollow.)

The 6336 tubes get amazingly hot. I measured 127C/260F internally in one spot with an infra red thermometer.
This time all my listening has been using headphones: T1 and my favorite, the Senn HD650.
What stand out soundwise is the extremely detailed and powerful bass and sub bass. Some time ago I borrowed a grandson's LCD3 headphones, and this presentation reminds me of that type of bass sound signature.
Re hum; yes, this setup has hum at ear splitting listening levels, but I never need to set is so loud. At normal and loud listening levels I cannot hear any hum. Setting the Euforia volume control at 9 o'clock is plenty loud; the hum only kicks in at around 2 o'clock (with headphones).
Really surprised how good this sounds.....For this experiment I picked two odd 6336B tubes: a Raytheon (less reinforced internal construction than the Cetron) and a used Cetron. Haven't yet tried one of the three matched NOS pairs I have.......


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> I draw my inspiration from the Glenn Super 9 OTL which has six power tube sockets. Owners have reported very good results using two 6336 tubes and a driver.
> The adapter I use is especially made for the Feliks Elise/Euforia by Mrs Xuling and has room for 6 octal tubes. It requires an external power source. I use a run-of-the mill 450W PC power supply that I had as a spare. Then connect the 12V lead to the 20A voltage regulator and setting it to 6.3V. (The previously used voltage regulator was rated at 15A but did not have enough juice for these 10A worth of tubes and sounded hollow.)
> 
> ...



Hi DL,
Glenn says that 6SN7 derived tubes are fine in his amp, so I tried a pair of 6CG7 tubes as drivers with the 6336B tubes.
What could be wrong with a pair of Sears tubes?




These tubes have no markings what they are, but I know I bought them as 6CG7. Made by manufacturer #312. (Sylvania).
How do they sound?



Quite good but, as expected, a little different than the EL11. Need to quantify my impression, but the Cetron bass house sound is there.
What's next? David and Goliath?


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2018)

Yo Mordy, I see you're using a 6BL7 adapter. I've already got two dual 6BL7 to 6SN7 adapters, so I'm thinking I could replace the connection between the heater circuit and the tube by simply unscrewing the adapter and cutting the appropriate wires and instead connecting them to the voltage regulator. I'd just need advise to be certain which two wires to cut, LOL





Your description of the 6336B sounds promising so far, and with the bass described. Would you also have any words about the mids, highs and soundstage? And comparisons to your other favorite power tubes such as RCA 6AS7G or EL12 Spez? I'm actually planning to show my Euforia at a mini-meet in Seattle early next month, and am considering to show your new monster-tube setup... though I would probably want to find some nifty little cover to mask that glaring regulator.

My E-*UFO*-oria is set up and sounding sublime, but only getting a little head-time as I'm split between a zillion tasks these days, but will report back soon on my experiences too. Thanks


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Yo Mordy, I see you're using a 6BL7 adapter. I've already got two dual 6BL7 to 6SN7 adapters, so I'm thinking I could replace the connection between the heater circuit and the tube by simply unscrewing the adapter and cutting the appropriate wires and instead connecting them to the voltage regulator. I'd just need advise to be certain which two wires to cut, LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi DL,
Instead of cutting the internals in your adapters I think that you are better off to buy two sockets with the power wires attached for external power.
My favorite combination is GEC 6080 with Foton 6H8C ribbed anodes - don't have the EL12 Spez.
The 6336 has a very detailed bass presentation and the music in the background of soloists is heard very clearly. BTW, the 6336 is a double 5998.
Hard to speak of soundstage since now I am listening to headphones, and I am more used to speakers. Cannot form a detailed opinion on the spot.....lol


----------



## Oskari

DecentLevi said:


> I'm actually planning to show my Euforia at a mini-meet in Seattle early next month, and am considering to show your new monster-tube setup... though I would probably want to find some nifty little cover to mask that glaring regulator.


I think your considering showing a more or less standard line-up at meets would be a favour for everybody.


----------



## mordy (Apr 17, 2018)

Oskari said:


> I think your considering showing a more or less standard line-up at meets would be a favour for everybody.







Vs


----------



## mordy

VS


----------



## Oskari

It's a _bit_ different when the original is 55+ years old and everybody already knows – has seen and _heard_ – the "standard".


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah I'd still need a little more research before going the 6336 route, and which brand is more suitable. The adapter mod idea was considering there's not enough time to order adapters from China before next month. If I did show it at a meet, I'll also bring standard tubes also. 
PS the 6336 is the same tube used on Zana Deux and must play a good role in that sweet, authoritative sound I remember hearing from it


----------



## Oskari

DecentLevi said:


> PS the 6336 is the same tube used on Zana Deux


It is not.


----------



## mordy (Apr 17, 2018)

Oskari said:


> It is not.


Hi DL,
The tube used by the Zana Deux is the Russian 6C33C-B 3A tube. The problem all tube amplifier manufacturers face is the availability of tubes in quantity, and the 6336/6528 are too difficult to obtain in enough quantities for a manufacturer.
We lucky tube rollers are not as restricted.......

Switched from the 6CG7 to the Russian Voskhod 6N23P from the 6DJ8 family - sounds good, too.
More forward than the 6CG7 with better bass but slightly sibilant at first listen - will give it more time......
The EL11 has a more even and refined FR.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2018)

My makeshift temp. tube sorting solution. Not the best, but better than laying tubes flat on a desk to roll around and get scratched. I prefer a solution that lets you view the tubes rather than being in a box or drawer.




Probably a solution like this metal shelf would be perfect, if only the metal was rubber coated.


BTW this is my entire tube collection except for 6BL7 and GE 6AS7G which I don't use anymore... I couldn't be an audiophile who went OCD on tubes, could I?


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> My makeshift temp. tube sorting solution. Not the best, but better than laying tubes flat on a desk to roll around and get scratched. I prefer a solution that lets you view the tubes rather than being in a box or drawer.
> 
> 
> Probably a solution like this metal shelf would be perfect, if only the metal was rubber coated.
> ...



Wow, quite a collection, DL...!

Enjoy!!


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
Very impressive tube collection!
Personally I use old shoe boxes and put labels on them re what's inside. And using plenty of bubble wrap around the tubes.
Re the 6336 tube I think that the consensus is that the best one is the carbon plate Cetron 6336B. You can find Raytheon look alikes, but they have fewer internal support rods. As you all know, more support rods means less microphonics (true/false? - I can't hear the difference).
In my search for the drivers I prefer I am now trying the EL3N. The sound is somewhat similar to the EL11 - a little laid back and sweet. Can't find anything yet that does not sound good with the Cetrons.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 18, 2018)

I spent the evening revisiting the Quad EL3N powers with all my driver tubes including some new ones, and came across a few wonderful winners. After 25 combinations of many types (including 7 types of EL11 & 12, etc.), here were the winners by a long-shot, being those are very picky about synergy with drivers.

*QUAD EL3N + TELFUNKEN EL12 Spez* (these don't hum as drivers)
This has refinement in spades - their sound is no joke and they really come alive with organic / analogue recordings. Unmistakably real and amazing soundstage + instrument separation. A very nice treat for any Euforia owner who has the means to adapt this pairing.
However being a non-native EL3N adaptation the dynamics are a tad behind perfection, but the above_ more than_ make up for it with most recordings.

*QUAD EL3N + TELEFUNKEN EL11*
With the TLF EL11 we now have a punchier, more textured sound & sweet tonality, but at the expense of some of the lower registers heard with the EL12 Spez

*Quad EL3N + Tesla ECC88*
I found this to have jawdropping synergy with the HD-600 in particular: weighty, dynamic, linear, crisp and perfection in the making, sounding great with all genres! Like a perfect counterweight for the HD-600's brightness

Per the above note I'm still slowly delving back into the sound of Euforia after 10 months away and have yet to even experience the full EL11+EL12 setup again so certainly there may be better pairings yet to come - this was just meant to showcase the best drivers with a the 4-pack EL3N powers_ (requires two dual adapters)_


----------



## DecentLevi

Nice finds Mordy RE the 6336 tubes on the last page. I'm getting more interested. How would you describe the high details and dynamics / 'punch' of your 6336 tubes in general? And are they linear or dark?


----------



## hypnos1

Hi all...just a quickie from yours truly...

I'm afraid I personally would not recommend anyone with Euforia (or Elise) go anywhere near such a powerful tube as the 6336. 

I know it obviously needs a separate power supply, and therefore does not put the transformer under heater load, but F-A never contemplated use of such a tube...(the EL series having proven to give no problems whatsoever, and therefore getting an unofficial OK from Lukasz!).

The use of socket savers and/or cooling fan does not IMHO make the 6336 any safer to use in our amps, and I would advise therefore against its use, and that anyone does so at his/her own risk...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi

Uploading a photo of my above mentioned setup now that I have the ferrite chokes... finally went for them and yes, just 1 alleviates the hum... will these give me any Spezial head-fi status? 






This setup is incredibly resolving and I find it to hold its' own very well even against EL11+EL12 setups


----------



## myphone

hypnos1 said:


> Am happy too, myphone...hope you like the EL12 Spezial! (but I find they perform best with EL11s as drivers...after long burn-in lol!! ).



H1, what brand of EL11 would you recommend for TFK EL12sp, TFK, Valvo, Mazda etc? Thanks.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> H1, what brand of EL11 would you recommend for TFK EL12sp, TFK, Valvo, Mazda etc? Thanks.


In general the nod goes to TFK tubes, but I know that h1 likes very special and extremely rare mesh plate tubes so he has to weigh in on these.


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> H1, what brand of EL11 would you recommend for TFK EL12sp, TFK, Valvo, Mazda etc? Thanks.



Hi myphone.

As @mordy mentioned, I was very lucky to find EXTREMELY rare mesh-plated tubes - old (black) Valvo EL11s and Australian EL3N*G *(quite different to the usual Philips EL3N, and much better IMHO!).

But of the 'normal' EL11, I would say the TFK is indeed the best - although the East German RFT (or RSD) is VERY close, and usually a good bit cheaper!...Good hunting! (BTW...don't pay over the odds for 'matched' pairs - as long as they're similar in strength value, any 2 singles should be fine...).


----------



## myphone (Apr 21, 2018)

Thanks, Mordy and H1. Start hunting for these EL11s.


----------



## mordy

There are two kinds of TFK EL11, ST glass and tubular straight glass - IMHO the ST tubes are better sounding.
I had good luck looking for these tubes on German eBay. When you scroll down the listings (sorting by lowest price+shipping) there is always a second list starting with the lowest price coming up after you finish the highest priced items - don't know why.
Although some sellers insist that they will only ship DHL ($18 and up), the German Post Office has some of the lowest rates in Europe to the US ($8 up to 500g, and then $10 for 1000g). For some strange reason, many German sellers did not know that they can use Bundespost.
Another thing is that there is a different culture there, and sellers aren't always as careful as US sellers to point out flaws such as a loose glass, or showing you a picture with original boxes and not shipping them with the tubes, etc.
Also, some sellers packed the tubes poorly, but otherwise you can find good buys.
Sometimes I found that Google translate is helpful.
Also, some German sellers will not accept PayPal and bank transfers are more costly.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2x-Telefunk...652023?hash=item4b40bca4f7:g:QZcAAOSw5WNa0fTi
A major seller is Wege  - UT had a very bad experience with him.
Good luck!


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> There are two kinds of TFK EL11, ST glass and tubular straight glass - IMHO the ST tubes are better sounding.
> I had good luck looking for these tubes on German eBay. When you scroll down the listings (sorting by lowest price+shipping) there is always a second list starting with the lowest price coming up after you finish the highest priced items - don't know why.
> Although some sellers insist that they will only ship DHL ($18 and up), the German Post Office has some of the lowest rates in Europe to the US ($8 up to 500g, and then $10 for 1000g). For some strange reason, many German sellers did not know that they can use Bundespost.
> Another thing is that there is a different culture there, and sellers aren't always as careful as US sellers to point out flaws such as a loose glass, or showing you a picture with original boxes and not shipping them with the tubes, etc.
> ...



Thank you, Mordy


----------



## myphone (Apr 22, 2018)

Have been rolling 3 variants of 5998 (clear top, Chrome top - pre-1958, and 1958 and later), all D-Getter, and 421A.

Pre-1958 and 1958/post 1958 chrome top internal structures are different, but they sound the same to my ears.

Compared to chrome top 5998, Clear top 5998s (made in 1958) have more air, clearer and sweeter, and more presence, mainly in mid and treble.

421As are similar to clear-top 5998, but go further. 421As feel like sitting closer to performers in an even bigger space with lights all on and windows wide open. Everything seems to open up more.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2018)

My Sennheiser HD-380 Pro's came in today. At first I wasn't used to their tonality and realized they have a subtle flatness in the highs and also subtle flabbyness in the bass... nothing a few rounds of tube rolling can't fix!! Many combinations later, I realized just how important synergy is with not only amp+tubes but also + headphones! Two of my top pairings with these headphones sounded rather passive or even bright on other headphones... now with the same tube combo on the HD-380 I was GOBSMACKED at the sound! Dynamics / snap attack, sub-bass extension and energy in such a way I've never heard before on any system at home!


The above refers to GEC 6080 + 6N23P (several variants sound good in different ways). Other marvelous pairings were Bendix 6080 + Tesla ECC88 and Bendix + Tungsram E80CC; which pairings also sound great on all open + closed headphones I've thrown at 'em.

I've tried Mordy's GEC 6080 + 6H8C on several open / closed headphones and personally found this pairing lacking in some ways compared to others, but this could be down to my chosen type (Melz Metal base). Also RE Tung Sol 5998, while I think its' strength lies in a fluidic, smooth organic sound with great separation, me and a few others agree it's a bit on the euphonic / sweet side and with a bass slightly off-kilter or maybe a nuance rolled off. These do have their place however, and I'm sure could sound perfect depending on the system being used in.


----------



## DecentLevi

PS - the HD-380 Pro closedback's have VERY GOOD synergy with the Euforia amp - something the Focal Classic Pro did not have with this amp - however synergy is highly dependent on tube combinations, as mentioned above. I got mine 'like new' on eBay for less than $100.


----------



## myphone

Crazy 421A price on eBay: the guy, I won auction from last month, is selling the same 421A tubes for $ 1000/pair!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-P...2A-rectifier-tubes-NOS-code-7226/132582295121


----------



## connieflyer

Even worse, no returns or exchange. Sold as is. Untested, you take a huge risk on these. DL hope you like the 380's had a pair a couple of years ago and liked them quite well.


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## mordy (Apr 24, 2018)

myphone said:


> Crazy 421A price on eBay: the guy, I won auction from last month, is selling the same 421A tubes for $ 1000/pair!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-P...2A-rectifier-tubes-NOS-code-7226/132582295121


Hi mp,

Did u say crazy prices? Look at what this pair of WE 300B sold for - 1K is nuttin':
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Western-Electric-300B-274B-274A-all-engraved-base-new-in-Box-Valves-Tubes-/192504577196?epid=166830105&hash=item2cd22abcac:g:zp8AAOSwWCBayJnw&nma=true&si=pC%2BcpeA6VhPu6%2F8qiWP%2Fpiqa0W0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
(After clicking on this, click Original Listing)


----------



## connieflyer

Thought I would show you my tube storage.  I bought two three drawer cabinets, clear plastic and stackable.  I use one for driver tubes and one for power tubes. Works well and inexpensive.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 25, 2018)

For anyone wishing to get a GEC 6AS7G but didn't have a chance... I would suggest the Mullard 6080, AKA 'CV 2984'. Having just spent a fairly lengthy listen with the GEC 6AS7G (using a variety of power tubes and open/closed headphones), it's my impression that these both have a similar tone. Both very neutral & organic with a subtle yet pleasing richness. I'd describe the tone of the GEC's more 'velvety', and the Mullards are more 'vibrant'. The former being very lifelike and pure, the latter being a touch more harsh or 'shouty' with treble that, while is very well textured, may be a nuance more accented in the 12khz range and a touch less puristic than the GEC's. Don't mistake this to mean the Mullards pale in comparison however - they both seem to share very similar strengths, with the Mullards taking just a few 'baby steps' back, yet being a very capable alternative - and for me actually preferable when it comes to electronic music for a slightly 'edgier' sound with a tad faster dynamics. They both also share many similarities in plate construction. After revisiting all my power tubes, the Mullards have a very lifelike tone (after EL12 Spez and the GEC's), and are quite a leap ahead of the Sylvania / RCA 6080, and Sylvania / GE / Svetlana 6AS7.

The GEC 6080 on the other hand are a very different animal - like a brighter, snappier, slightly less lush version of the GEC 6AS7C, and some of the brighter power tubes out there.

Selected pairings with the above mentioned on Euforia:

Mullard 6080 + Telefunken EL12 Spez
  Smooth, liquid, extended, immediate dynamics, sense of air. _Delicious_. (slightly bright so pairs perfectly with darker headphones. To me the best of 7 assorted EL11/12 variants)
Mullard 6080 + Telefunken EL12
  Weighty, extended, vivid, punchy, smooth, almost effortless. _Tasty_.


GEC 6AS7G + Valvo EL11
 Very smooth and extended, pure, neutral, good dynamics _Seductive_
GEC 6AS7G + EL12 Spez
 Very smooth, sweet, organic, natural, snappy, and euphonic in a good way. _Delectable_
The above was done with a focus on good pairings for the Sennheiser HD-380 pro, but also sounded great with open 'cans.
Though after the GEC, my preference still goes to the Bendix 6080 (graphite plates) for a modestly darker, less euphonic signature.

 As always the above is all IMO but based on considerable testing.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> For anyone wishing to get a GEC 6AS7G but didn't have a chance... I would suggest the Mullard 6080, AKA 'CV 2984'. Having just spent a fairly lengthy listen with the GEC 6AS7G (using a variety of power tubes and open/closed headphones), it's my impression that these both have a similar tone. Both very neutral & organic with a subtle yet pleasing richness. I'd describe the tone of the GEC's more 'velvety', and the Mullards are more 'vibrant'. The former being very lifelike and pure, the latter being a touch more harsh or 'shouty' with treble that, while is very well textured, may be a nuance more accented in the 12khz range and a touch less puristic than the GEC's. Don't mistake this to mean the Mullards pale in comparison however - they both seem to share very similar strengths, with the Mullards taking just a few 'baby steps' back, yet being a very capable alternative - and for me actually preferable when it comes to electronic music for a slightly 'edgier' sound with a tad faster dynamics. They both also share many similarities in plate construction. After revisiting all my power tubes, the Mullards have a very lifelike tone (after EL12 Spez and the GEC's), and are quite a leap ahead of the Sylvania / RCA 6080, and Sylvania / GE / Svetlana 6AS7.
> 
> The GEC 6080 on the other hand are a very different animal - like a brighter, snappier, slightly less lush version of the GEC 6AS7C, and some of the brighter power tubes out there.
> 
> ...



Very interesting DL...and shows different folks' impressions lol!...ie. many would say the GEC 6080 is the best 'cheaper' substitute for the (very expensive!) GEC 6AS7G/Osram A1834. And so as always, YMMV!! 

Also, the EL12 and 12 Spezial are usually considered as a 'power' tube, rather than as a driver...but personal experimentation may fit one's preferences. I personally have found that over the long term especially, it is better to keep the EL series of tubes together, rather than mix them with 'conventional' ones...


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 26, 2018)

Yeah usually I prefer EL12's as powers, but as we have realized EL12's are compatible as drivers or powers, having a current value in-between that of the 6AS7 and 6SN7, as well as a higher gain that most powers. OTOH I've _(often) _found the EL series a bit too euphonic and 'sweet' for my tastes, and was able to get a moderately more 'dry' or solid-state leaning sound when paired with specific powers that play well.

PS - I'm currently rediscovering 6FQ7 drivers (uses 6CG7 adapter) and they bring some really nice attributes to the table.

EDIT: I still have EL12 Spez + Valvo EL12 as my favorite all time combo so there are exceptions!


----------



## aqsw (Apr 26, 2018)

Hey Guys,
Have not posted for awhile, but I still peek in once in a while..

I have never believed in the cable debate before. I always used  50 cent red and yellow cables.
I finally caved in and bought a set of cables from kijiijii. Paid $50.00. OMG, the absolute best purchase I have ever msde..
That includes my dac and Euforia. The sound has improved incredibly with cables. Remember I was using .50 cables. . I love these things.
I'M cable hunting now,

The FA stuff is still unbelievable, but this is the best 50 bucks I've ever spent


----------



## mordy

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys,
> Have not posted for awhile, but I still peek in once in a while..
> 
> I have never believed in the cable debate before. I always used  50 cent red and yellow cables.
> ...


Hi aqsw,
I also resisted the cable stuff, thinking that cables maybe can be used as tone controls (which undoubtedly happens with some of them).
In any case, instead of buying a very expensive Hi Fi A/C cable I bought a hospital grade 14 gauge power cord from Amazon for around $10 on the recommendation of I think CF.
I was really surprised to find out that it improved the sound and made the bass tighter. It looks similar to this one:


----------



## aqsw

Done alot of tube rolling, but I really believe this might be the best upgrade. Other than Euforia from Elise!


----------



## aqsw

I bought Morrow cables, and I just did an upgrade ( 50% off). The bad part is they say they need about three hundred hours to burn in.


----------



## connieflyer

I found that the power cables I bought from Amazon work quite well.  The hospital grade is a plus and the 14 ga  is a heavy enough cable to not restrict current flow.  Some of the stock power cables are such a small ga. it is a wonder sometimes how they don't get more attention. Glad you like them Mordy,  I bought four of them and am quite satisfied with them


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Done alot of tube rolling, but I really believe this might be the best upgrade. Other than Euforia from Elise!



Hi aqsw...nice to see you're still around! 

And yes indeed, the cables used - including power, interconnects and headphone - can make an incredible difference to final performance. Especially as one upgrades the rest of the system...not forgetting mains power conditioning, of course! And if you're into DIY, using UP-OCC silver and copper wires takes things to yet another level...commercially available such cables simply aren't worth the crazy prices IMHO!...ENJOY!!...

ps. Glad you too think the upgrade from Elise worthwhile...


----------



## connieflyer

Hi H, hope all is well with you.  Just got a Synology NAS and setting it up.  So far so good, I bought two 3 TB drives for it so I can have access to all my music, media files from any device and also if I go out of town, will be able to connect to all my music on the net.  Software is installing now, and of course then have to put all my music on it, but this way don't need pc or tv on to listen.  Tried DL's gec 6as7g with EL11's and sounds pretty good.  I should try the GEC 6080's while I am at it.  Only have about five hours on the 6080, should put them up for sale I guess.  Use the El's almost exclusivly


----------



## Johnnysound

DecentLevi said:


> Yeah usually I prefer EL12's as powers, but as we have realized EL12's are compatible as drivers or powers, having a current value in-between that of the 6AS7 and 6SN7, as well as a higher gain that most powers. OTOH I've _(often) _found the EL series a bit too euphonic and 'sweet' for my tastes, and was able to get a moderately more 'dry' or solid-state leaning sound when paired with specific powers that play well.
> 
> PS - I'm currently rediscovering 6FQ7 drivers (uses 6CG7 adapter) and they bring some really nice attributes to the table.
> 
> EDIT: I still have EL12 Spez + Valvo EL12 as my favorite all time combo so there are exceptions!



Hi DL, quite interesting your experiences with EL tubes paired with 6080s...my favorite combo right now is TFK EL11 + NEC 6080 or Mullard CV 2984,  both sound great in the Euforia.  The Japanese tubes have deeper bass and more extended highs, a very neutral, controlled, full bandwidth sound that perhaps do not show quite the same midrange “magic” as the Mullards, but is  so accurate that It is my reference power tube to test drivers.  In fact, I got the tubes very cheaply, and was utterly surprised  with their top notch sound quality,  until I discovered that NEC was owned by Western Electric in the late sixties...

And BTW also tried Mullard and RCA 6BQ7As in the Euforia, only briefly, and those NOS fifties tubes, of course, do need a proper burn in to show their real qualities .  Very nice sound, specially the vintage RCAs.  And speaking of RCAs, the 6CG7 is a great driver tube in the Euforia, IMHO clearly above the 6SN7.  Still experimenting with many “small” tubes, and the Euforia simply “likes” a few and discard the others...


----------



## myphone (Apr 28, 2018)

H1 and CF, what is the burn-in time for EL12 sp? Have been running 24hr/day for a few days now. Sound is clear, clean and great resolution. Wonder when they would settle down to final stage.

ATM, EL12sp is brighter than 5998/GEC6080. RCA VT-231 or Ken-Rad 6SN7s match better than Sylvania 6SN7GT (1952) or RCA 12SX7.

If i understand correctly, 6AS7/6080 output tube uses BOTH triodes per tube parallel; EL12 is a pentode, thus function as a single triode.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi H, hope all is well with you.  Just got a Synology NAS and setting it up.  So far so good, I bought two 3 TB drives for it so I can have access to all my music, media files from any device and also if I go out of town, will be able to connect to all my music on the net.  Software is installing now, and of course then have to put all my music on it, but this way don't need pc or tv on to listen.  Tried DL's gec 6as7g with EL11's and sounds pretty good.  I should try the GEC 6080's while I am at it.  Only have about five hours on the 6080, should put them up for sale I guess.  Use the El's almost exclusivly



Hi cf...getting better by the day, thanks. In fact have been back behind the wheel for over a week now...thank goodness!!  

But I don't think I'll be up to the trip to Poland in May, to visit the Feliks clan...which I'd been looking forward to for months. Life can be such a b**ch sometimes! Had also hoped to get more of a glimpse of their projected new flagship amp which, from the early design, looked tremendous - and would certainly have most others looking rather dated lol!! (a mixed blessing, now I have Euforia sounding so good! But if they can pull off the not inconsiderable task of combining both a top class headphone _and_ power amp, I might well be tempted...).

And well done on the NAS device...so much more convenient for one's digital collection. My own Naim UnitiCore has proved worth its weight in gold, and the quality of CD rips to its internal SSD is often the equal of hi-res recordings...amazing! I hope your Synology gives you such quality reproduction...keep us informed!

ps. You should have a good investment in those GEC tubes...good luck!


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> H1 and CF, what is the burn-in time for EL12 sp? Have been running 24hr/day for a few days now. Sound is clear, clean and great resolution. Wonder when they would settle down to final stage.
> 
> ATM, EL12sp is brighter than 5998/GEC6080. RCA VT-231 or Ken-Rad 6SN7s match better than Sylvania 6SN7GT (1952) or RCA 12SX7.
> 
> If i understand correctly, 6AS7/6080 output tube uses BOTH triodes per tube parallel; EL12 is a pentode, thus function as a single triode.



Hi myphone.

I myself found the EL12 Spezial - as with all EL tubes - to keep improving well over the 150hrs mark. But I personally prefer to 'run them in' in about 8hr sessions - it appears this 'stresses' the tube more, and hence speeds up burn-in. Plus F-A recommend this time as the maximum for using the amp (although the cooler running of EL tubes perhaps mitigates this lol!)

The EL tubes are indeed triode-strapped (in our amps) pentodes with single plate, as opposed to double triodes running in parallel. This is one reason I really like them (pentodes) - they have more grids to deal with stray electrons, and just the one single (usually larger) anode/plate, rather than two co-existing within the same glass enclosure. And, especially, those with the top anode connection do seem to perform better, in most cases!...


----------



## myphone

hypnos1 said:


> Hi myphone.
> 
> I myself found the EL12 Spezial - as with all EL tubes - to keep improving well over the 150hrs mark. But I personally prefer to 'run them in' in about 8hr sessions - it appears this 'stresses' the tube more, and hence speeds up burn-in. Plus F-A recommend this time as the maximum for using the amp (although the cooler running of EL tubes perhaps mitigates this lol!)
> 
> The EL tubes are indeed triode-strapped (in our amps) pentodes with single plate, as opposed to double triodes running in parallel. This is one reason I really like them (pentodes) - they have more grids to deal with stray electrons, and just the one single (usually larger) anode/plate, rather than two co-existing within the same glass enclosure. And, especially, those with the top anode connection do seem to perform better, in most cases!...



Thank you, H1


----------



## connieflyer

So far so good on that Nas. With the gigabyte port, loading all the files on it has been quite efficient. Being able to use this with a tablet to play all my music or view pictures is really convenient. And being able to set it up as a personal cloud and personal server wherever I happen to be so long as I have a data connection it's fantastic.


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> Hi H, hope all is well with you.  Just got a Synology NAS and setting it up.  So far so good, I bought two 3 TB drives for it so I can have access to all my music, media files from any device and also if I go out of town, will be able to connect to all my music on the net.  Software is installing now, and of course then have to put all my music on it, but this way don't need pc or tv on to listen.  Tried DL's gec 6as7g with EL11's and sounds pretty good.  I should try the GEC 6080's while I am at it.  Only have about five hours on the 6080, should put them up for sale I guess.  Use the El's almost exclusivly



Listening to violin music with RCA VT-231/GEC 6080. Just beautiful.


----------



## myphone (Apr 28, 2018)

GEC 6AS7s in the house, thanks to Mordy's detective work. Brief listening with RCA 12SX7, sweet tone and palpable energy.


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> GEC 6AS7s in the house, thanks to Mordy's detective work. Brief listening with RCA 12SX7, sweet tone and palpable energy.


Hi mp,

Glad that it worked out. The ones you have have the curved bottom sockets - supposed to be the best.


----------



## myphone

A recent review of Euforia:

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/feliks-audio-euforia-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## mordy

Nice review, but I wonder how familiar the reviewer is with tubes:
_ "if the stock tubes blow and Feliks Audio is temporarily out of replacements, a pair of ECC32 can take the places of the driver tubes. "_
Right now not a single pair is listed on eBay - two pairs sold recently for between $500-700.
Sssssshhhh - don't tell him about the Fotons LOL!


----------



## myphone (Apr 29, 2018)

Brief impression of GEC 6AS7, WE 421A, GEC 6080, and Bendix 6080 (slotted):

Euforia is transparent enough that the character of each tube is quite apparent. The final result is combination of music played, tubes combos (driver/power), headphones, and personal preference. Headphones used were HD800 and T1.

My personal music taste is mostly classical music, plus some jazz and classic rock.

Personally, i don't see there is a best holy-grail tube.

Since I got GEC 6AS7 yesterday (used), my focus has been on GEC.

GEC 6AS7 and WE 421A have very different presentations: GEC is warm and intimate, like early summer afternoon sun, warm but not hot, notes bloom from within. There is air and energy, golden glow expanding from inside. Very nice for small ensemble and male vocal.

WE 421 is vast and airy, like fall open space, clean and open, notes hang in space. There is air and space surrounding performers and listeners.  Much preferable for orchestral works.

My personal preferable combos for majority of music, GEC 6AS7 and TS 12SN7 RT (I don't have TSRT 6SN7); WE 421A and RCA 12SX7 (with Eagle sign).

GEC 6080s have wonderful agility for classical violin music phrasing, sonatas.

Bendix 6080s feels just right for classic rock, Pink Floyd etc.


----------



## mordy

I admire your ability to paint the differences between the tubes in words. I don't have the WE421A and the 12SN7 tubes you mention, but I have the GEC 6AS7/6080 and the Bendix 6080WB.
I used the description from DL for the GEC 6AS7 - mythical energy, the GEC 6080 are agile and quick responding, and the Bendix (cheaper non-slotted) are harder hitting.
And as you say, there is no best tube, but some synergistic combinations are way beyond and will please most people.
ATM I am using a pair of 6DJ8 tubes with the Cetron 6336B and I find that exhilarating....
Although I like some light classical music, my main interest is 20's jazz, either original or true to the spirit recent recordings. Many times the sound quality isn't the best, but I love the music.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 30, 2018)

Hmmm last year I owned both a genuine pair of both curved and straight-form base GEC 6AS7G and I actually preferred the straight form one - though likely because the curved one wasn't burned in yet. Irreplaceable, timeless performance from those.

Earlier this month I was trying my hand as a DJ in Laos. You can listen to 2 of my mixtapes of different styles. These sound a lot better on the Euforia than the equipment I was using abroad, and HQ .flac downloads are available. A good DAC such as the Modi 2 multibit with a USB component for improved fidelity also helps in a live performance. The first mix was meant to showcase some variety of electronic music, while the 2nd is a mesh of lounge / tribal rhythms.





And this week I'm (in the US), more of a tube aficionado listening to 'world music', and discovering how good old REM and Pat Benatar sound on a good tube amp such as Euforia


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> GEC 6AS7s in the house, thanks to Mordy's detective work. Brief listening with RCA 12SX7, sweet tone and palpable energy.



Very nice myphone...you now have what is often regarded as the 'Holy Grail' of 6AS7Gs. But as is mentioned, a lot will come down to personal preference...and cost lol!! ...WELL DONE!...

ps. For DIYers (at the moment), I mention below a new EL driver tube I have discovered - the EL32 (military CV1052) - and I cannot believe how good it is...for relative peanuts!! ...CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1

Right then guys, for DIYers (at present) I must present my latest discovery...and which must be the bargain of the century (eat your heart out @mordy !! ).

Given my love of EL pentodes, I had to give this one a try - the *EL32/CV1052*.
As a driver, it is less powerful than the EL11 or EL3N, so is probably a bit closer in spec to the medium gain 6SN7. It also only draws a minute 0.2 amp heater current, so runs even cooler!

But how does it sound?...Given it's slightly less loud than its current EL11 partner and only has about 20hrs on it (which is nothing for an EL tube), I cannot yet give a full and proper assessment. But already it is taking me by surprise - especially given its (ridiculously) cheap price...at the moment!

It has the clear, accurate precision of the EL11, but with a little more of the EL3N's warmth...reminding me of my favourite _mesh_-plated EL3N*G *and old Valvo EL11. With further burn-in it should develop even more bass and wider soundstage, and if so, this tube must indeed be the bargain of the millenium, not just the century lol! So can't wait for further bases to arrive from Hong Kong, then I can see just how _two_ perform together...

Below, photo of the 3 tubes I got - British military CV1052...at *£8*...yes, *£8*! *the 3*, and *NOS*...unbelievable! Plus photo comparing it with (RFT) EL11; EL3N, and my mesh-plated Valvo EL11.

ps. The top connection this time is for the *grid* - like the 6F8G & 6C8G - as opposed to the anode...so safer!! 

 

 

pps. Does this game *ever* end lol?!!!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Right then guys, for DIYers (at present) I must present my latest discovery...and which must be the bargain of the century (eat your heart out @mordy !! ).
> 
> Given my love of EL pentodes, I had to give this one a try - the *EL32/CV1052*.
> As a driver, it is less powerful than the EL11 or EL3N, so is probably a bit closer in spec to the medium gain 6SN7. It also only draws a minute 0.2 amp heater current, so runs even cooler!
> ...


----------



## Scutey

Hi h1, great find!, so am I right in thinking the 6F8G/6C8G adapter can be used?.


----------



## connieflyer

I would like to second DL's opinion, I thought when I heard them compared, it was only me.  I bought the straight base and think it was just a cut above, not much, but to me it was better. 


DecentLevi said:


> Hmmm last year I owned both a genuine pair of both curved and straight-form base GEC 6AS7G and I actually preferred the straight form one - though likely because the curved one wasn't burned in yet. Irreplaceable, timeless performance from those.
> 
> Earlier this month I was trying my hand as a DJ in Laos. You can listen to 2 of my mixtapes of different styles. These sound a lot better on the Euforia than the equipment I was using abroad, and HQ .flac downloads are available. A good DAC such as the Modi 2 multibit with a USB component for improved fidelity also helps in a live performance. The first mix was meant to showcase some variety of electronic music, while the 2nd is a mesh of lounge / tribal rhythms.
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, great find!, so am I right in thinking the 6F8G/6C8G adapter can be used?.



Hi scutey...and thanks...this is turning out to be a fabulous tube, even with just a few more hours on it!

Problem is there's no adapter for it out there yet...and no, you can't use one for the 6F8G/6C8G alas, as these are normal triodes, the EL32/CV1052 being another (in our case) triode-strapped _pentode, _and the pinout is different..shame...


----------



## hypnos1

As a further update on the EL32/CV1052 tube, after @connieflyer 's findings, there is also the *straight-sided* CV1052 - again available for peanuts. My own experience has however been with the 'ST' (shoulder) type, so I'm afraid I don't know if the former performs the same.

There is also a bit of confusion re. the equivalent 'VT52', which is supposed to be the same. Also out there is the VT-52 (note the dash!), which is a direct-heated, 4-pin tube that is totally different-spec'd, and cannot of course be used in our amps...(and is silly money lol!!).

As previously mentioned however, this CV1052 of mine gets better by the hour, and already eclipses all other non-EL tubes I have tried...amazing!!


----------



## Scutey (Apr 30, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> As a further update on the EL32/CV1052 tube, after @connieflyer 's findings, there is also the *straight-sided* CV1052 - again available for peanuts. My own experience has however been with the 'ST' (shoulder) type, so I'm afraid I don't know if the former performs the same.
> 
> There is also a bit of confusion re. the equivalent 'VT52', which is supposed to be the same. Also out there is the VT-52 (note the dash!), which is a direct-heated, 4-pin tube that is totally different-spec'd, and cannot of course be used in our amps...(and is silly money lol!!).
> 
> As previously mentioned however, this CV1052 of mine gets better by the hour, and already eclipses all other non-EL tubes I have tried...amazing!!


Sounds like another winner h1, I'm sure you can sniff out these potential undiscovered gems!, all we need now is for mrs Xuling to fashion an adapter!.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Sounds like another winner h1, I'm sure you can sniff out these potential undiscovered gems!, *all we need now is for mrs Xuling to* *fashion an adapter!*.



That would indeed be marvellous scutey...but then watch the price of this tube soar lol!!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> That would indeed be marvellous scutey...but then watch the price of this tube soar lol!!


There's always a snag!


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> There's always a snag!


Hi h1,
A cursory check showed a large number of tubes for sale, even in 50 tube lots!
Unfortunately I am not handy with electronics DIY so can't do anything without a commercially available adapter.....
Unless the 6F8G adapter can be modified with little wires like in the old MKIII days...


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 30, 2018)

Scutey said:


> There's always a snag!



Re. your query whether 6F8G/6C8G adapters could be used, there _is_ a way, as we used to do in the old days with the LittleDot MKIV and III...as mordy alluded to below. But really only for those comfortable with such things lol! See what you think when I explain further...



mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> A cursory check showed a large number of tubes for sale, even in 50 tube lots!
> Unfortunately I am not handy with electronics DIY so can't do anything without a commercially available adapter.....
> Unless the 6F8G adapter can be modified with little wires like in the old MKIII days...



Hi mordy.

Looking at the various pin-outs again, your suggestion is in fact not _too_ difficult...the only snag actually being grid2 to anode connection in the EL32/CV1052. So we would have to connect EL32 pin #3 to #4, but make *absolutely* sure said pin 4 was cut down as far as possible and then covered securely with insulating tape, so as not to make any contact whatsoever with the corresponding area on the adapter's socket (which could also be covered in insulating tape, just to be sure!).

And for those who may not be aware, the tube's pins are numbered from 1 to 8 with the tube turned upside down, starting from the pin immediately to the _left_ of the locating protrusion - *as you look down*, and moving clockwise. But the pin numbers move (and start) in the _*opposite*_ direction, as you look down at the _*top*_ of the adapter (inversion principle!). And so this should be easy for those used to such modifications lol!

And as you said, there are still plenty to be found at what are silly (cheap!) prices...especially considering how good my first tube is now sounding. It has in fact already nearly matched the more powerful Valvo EL11 partnering it, without the slightest hint of noise/hum...a totally 'black' background, in fact. And the bass and soundstage are indeed developing as expected...along with all the other best attributes of the EL11 and EL3N - quite amazing...and somewhat disturbing, at these prices lol!! 

As usual however, any such modifications are done at one's own risk!

ps. Those lots of 50 tubes, plus those really cheap ones seem to be the straight-sided version...mine are the 'ST' (shoulder) type (which are usually preferable over straight tubes), and hence more expensive.


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Re. your query whether 6F8G/6C8G adapters could be used, there _is_ a way, as we used to do in the old days with the LittleDot MKIV and III...as mordy alluded to below. But really only for those comfortable with such things lol! See what you think when I explain further...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have to stop coming up with good sounding tubes. You know I will have to try it!!!!!
They are really output pentodes and if they sound close to a VT52 you will have found a wonder.


----------



## mordy

2359glenn said:


> You have to stop coming up with good sounding tubes. You know I will have to try it!!!!!
> They are really output pentodes and if they sound close to a VT52 you will have found a wonder.


Hi 2359glenn,
You saved me an email - looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
Methinks we have to call upon Mrs Xuling to make an adapter - too complicated for me!
I still have some tubes with cut off pins from my MKIII days, but I am not going there.....


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 30, 2018)

If you do get Xuling to fashion an adapter for this, I do recommend she use higher caliber conductors. Recent critical listening / comparisons from using a standard-class pair of tubes on a 6x externally powered adapter has shown me there is a subtle reduction in dynamics / 'snap', and soundstange when going through an adapter with a PCB, vs. directly in the Euforia. Different conductors affect the signal differntly, and with the 6x adapter from Xuling anyway, it seems to use aluminum and copper (perhaps), which would definitely contribute to an altered sound... the Euforia is based on improved materials anyway so just maybe we can convince her to use higher caliber conductors in this, and even other adapters too!


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> You have to stop coming up with good sounding tubes. You know I will have to try it!!!!!
> They are really output pentodes and if they sound close to a VT52 you will have found a wonder.



Hi Glenn...thought you might be tempted - you too love a challenge/new tube methinks lol! 

I still can't get over how good these (triode-strapped) pentodes keep performing so well in our OTL circuits - to Feliks-Audio's amazement also!! Good luck with your own experiments...(doubt this tube is quite as good as the 4-pin, direct heated VT-52 (_with_ dash!), but it sure sounds good to me...at a tiny fraction of the cost! I look forward of course to seeing just how 2 of these wonders perform together...but partnering a mesh-plate EL3N*G *(Australian), it is already sounding VERY good indeed......fingers crossed!


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Methinks we have to call upon Mrs Xuling to make an adapter - too complicated for me!
> I still have some tubes with cut off pins from my MKIII days, but I am not going there.....



China is definitely the easier way out...but the method I mentioned shouldn't be _too_ daunting?......



DecentLevi said:


> If you do get Xuling to fashion an adapter for this, I do recommend she use higher caliber conductors. Recent critical listening / comparisons from using a standard-class pair of tubes on a 6x externally powered adapter has shown me there is a subtle reduction in dynamics / 'snap', and soundstange when going through an adapter with a PCB, vs. directly in the Euforia. Different conductors affect the signal differntly, and with the 6x adapter from Xuling anyway, it seems to use aluminum and copper (perhaps), which would definitely contribute to an altered sound... the Euforia is based on improved materials anyway so just maybe we can convince her to use higher caliber conductors in this, and even other adapters too!



Afraid I have to agree with you here DL...the quality of _any_ connections must have an overall bearing on final performance - especially as one upgrades the rest of the system...and the fewer the better IMHO! I personally only use pure silver and copper (now UP-OCC) wires when adapting tubes, and always try to have them make direct metal-to-metal contact with the tube's own wiring. I'm quite sure this makes a good difference to the final outcome...assuming very good wire up- and down-stream!

Mrs Xuling's move away from wire to PCB inside their adapters was very much a step in the wrong direction, as far as I'm concerned...But perhaps she might be coerced back into using _good_ wire lol!!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Methinks we have to call upon Mrs Xuling to make an adapter - too complicated for me!
> I still have some tubes with cut off pins from my MKIII days, but I am not going there.....


Hi h1, 
Thanks for the info but I'm with mordy on this!, not sure if my knowledge stretches that far plus I'm as nimble fingered as an gorilla wearing boxing gloves!.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 30, 2018)

While these recent new tube developments seem intriguing, I for one would prefer only to go this route if perhaps these new tubes are more on the 'dry' or solid-state like sound, as opposed to another over-saturated / euphonic / sweet sounding ST-shaped tube as are most of those have been so far; such as EL12 Spez or Tung Sol 5998


----------



## 2359glenn (Apr 30, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Glenn...thought you might be tempted - you too love a challenge/new tube methinks lol!
> 
> I still can't get over how good these (triode-strapped) pentodes keep performing so well in our OTL circuits - to Feliks-Audio's amazement also!! Good luck with your own experiments...(doubt this tube is quite as good as the 4-pin, direct heated VT-52 (_with_ dash!), but it sure sounds good to me...at a tiny fraction of the cost! I look forward of course to seeing just how 2 of these wonders perform together...but partnering a mesh-plate EL3N*G *(Australian), it is already sounding VERY good indeed......fingers crossed!



I will likely do EL32 driving a EL32 like I do with the EL3N. The same tube will make the same distortion and the output of the driver
distortion will be 180 deg out of phase from the output tube canceling out the distortion.


----------



## DecentLevi

DecentLevi said:


> If you do get Xuling to fashion an adapter for this, I do recommend she use higher caliber conductors. Recent critical listening / comparisons from using a standard-class pair of tubes on a 6x externally powered adapter has shown me there is a subtle reduction in dynamics / 'snap', and soundstange when going through an adapter with a PCB, vs. directly in the Euforia. Different conductors affect the signal differntly, and with the 6x adapter from Xuling anyway, it seems to use aluminum and copper (perhaps), which would definitely contribute to an altered sound... the Euforia is based on improved materials anyway so just maybe we can convince her to use higher caliber conductors in this, and even other adapters too!





hypnos1 said:


> China is definitely the easier way out...but the method I mentioned shouldn't be _too_ daunting?......
> 
> Afraid I have to agree with you here DL...the quality of _any_ connections must have an overall bearing on final performance - especially as one upgrades the rest of the system...and the fewer the better IMHO! I personally only use pure silver and copper (now UP-OCC) wires when adapting tubes, and always try to have them make direct metal-to-metal contact with the tube's own wiring. I'm quite sure this makes a good difference to the final outcome...assuming very good wire up- and down-stream!
> 
> Mrs Xuling's move away from wire to PCB inside their adapters was very much a step in the wrong direction, as far as I'm concerned...But perhaps she might be coerced back into using _good_ wire lol!!



I'm quite glad somebody agrees with me on this, and would love to have better quality adapters, especially with any 'new' tubes. Though I'm not sure if silver wire would color the sound or not - possibly if she could use the same type of wiring found inside the Euforia that would be best. Also however it may require some special configuration if this type of wire can't be printed into a PCB


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> While these recent new tube developments seem intriguing, I for one would prefer only to go this route if perhaps these new tubes are more on the 'dry' or solid-state like sound, as opposed to another over-saturated / euphonic / sweet sounding ST-shaped tube as are most of those have been so far; such as EL12 Spez or Tung Sol 5998



Hi DL.

I must say I find your comments a little intriguing...in my own setup, the sound is now as close to my friend's Questyle CMA800 SS amp as I would ever want to get lol!!...(the Neotech UP-OCC silver and copper wires helping here also). Most folks go for tube amps _precisely_ for the more 'euphonic' sound, as opposed to typical SS! I suspect, from what you're saying, that solid state might well suit your own particular tastes/requirements a lot better!  And I can wholeheartedly recommend Questyle's products, after hearing the CMA 800! ...

Re. 3rd party adapters, the wire to match Euforia would indeed have to be silver, as that is what F-A use in this amp lol!


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> I will likely do EL32 driving a EL32 like I do with the EL3N. The same tube will make the same distortion and the output of the driver
> distortion will be 180 deg out of phase from the output tube canceling out the distortion.



Interesting, Glenn...at the moment I find one driving my EL12 Spezial (along with the EL3NG/EL12 Sp) to be doing so flawlessly. After I have two as drivers working, I may well see how they compare with the Spezials as powers also!..(although the EL32 is less powerful). Look forward to your findings...


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1,
> Thanks for the info but I'm with mordy on this!, not sure if my knowledge stretches that far plus I'm as nimble fingered as an gorilla wearing boxing gloves!.



That's a shame Scutey...far less 'modifying' than I thought/feared, but if one doesn't feel comfortable with it, better to play safe lol! 

Depending on how I find 2 performing as drivers, I might well see if MrsX can come up with a better-wired adapter...or see if I can find the time to help out a few fellow pioneers lol!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> That's a shame Scutey...far less 'modifying' than I thought/feared, but if one doesn't feel comfortable with it, better to play safe lol!
> 
> Depending on how I find 2 performing as drivers, I might well see if MrsX can come up with a better-wired adapter...or see if I can find the time to help out a few fellow pioneers lol!


It is really, it's the sort of thing a few years ago I could have attempted/done. 

I'm always interested in new tube types so I  certainly will be very keen on how they pan out and, good luck with your trials h1!.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 2, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL.
> 
> I must say I find your comments a little intriguing...in my own setup, the sound is now as close to my friend's Questyle CMA800 SS amp as I would ever want to get lol!!...(the Neotech UP-OCC silver and copper wires helping here also). Most folks go for tube amps _precisely_ for the more 'euphonic' sound, as opposed to typical SS! I suspect, from what you're saying, that solid state might well suit your own particular tastes/requirements a lot better!  And I can wholeheartedly recommend Questyle's products, after hearing the CMA 800! ...
> 
> Re. 3rd party adapters, the wire to match Euforia would indeed have to be silver, as that is what F-A use in this amp lol!



I tried that at the Questyle booth in recent years and was quite impressed. Their amps use 'current mode' technology which improves the damping by automatically adjusting the current according to headphone impedance which also helps their amps to sound good with more 'cans'. OTOH I was nowhere near as impressed as I was with flagship tube amps such as EC Studio or Woo Audio WA33. I lean towards the 'cold truth', edgy or dry sound so a tube amp can do too, I've just gotta roll more tubes to find my sonic preference.

PS - This being the Euforia amp thread, I thought it would only be fitting to mention that there is also a Euforia tube DAC! I noticed this from the Glenn Amp thread. I know nothing other than the spec sheet on this, but Euforia DAC + Euforia amp must have some 'synergy' LOL
http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DSD-Euforia_DAC.html


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> It is really, it's the sort of thing a few years ago I could have attempted/done.
> 
> I'm always interested in new tube types so I  certainly will be very keen on how they pan out and, good luck with your trials h1!.



I'm sure this tube is going to be another winner, Scutey, so if you are indeed interested (and you sound like a pioneer lol!), I shall be making the odd adapter or two in the near future...depending on shipment from the Far East!! And shall be using top grade wires lol! 



DecentLevi said:


> I tried that at the Questyle booth in recent years and was quite impressed. Their amps use 'current mode' technology which improves the damping by automatically adjusting the current according to headphone impedance which also helps their amps to sound good with more 'cans'. OTOH I was nowhere near as impressed as I was with flagship tube amps such as EC Studio or Woo Audio WA33. I lean towards the 'cold truth', edgy or dry sound so a tube amp can do too, I've just gotta roll more tubes to find my sonic preference.
> 
> PS - This being the Euforia amp thread, I thought it would only be fitting to mention that there is also a Euforia tube DAC! I noticed this from the Glenn Amp thread. I know nothing other than the spec sheet on this, but Euforia DAC + Euforia amp must have some 'synergy' LOL
> http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DSD-Euforia_DAC.html



Hmmm DL...we're entering totally different territory with the likes of the WA33! Looks, and appears, wonderful...but starting at $7999 for the 'standard' model, and $14,999 for the 'Elite', one might want to wait and see what F-A turn up with their new 2A3, fully balanced flagship amp - at a much more competitive price I should imagine!  (Still waiting for more info on this however...).

And fancy Lampizator making a tube DAC also called 'Euforia'...two organizations using the same name?...hmmm!...But it does look very good...would love to hear an A/B comparison with the Hugo2...


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> I'm sure this tube is going to be another winner, Scutey, so if you are indeed interested (and you sound like a pioneer lol!), I shall be making the odd adapter or two in the near future...depending on shipment from the Far East!! And shall be using top grade wires lol!


Hi h1,

Yes definitely interested, count me in, I'd like to think I have the pioneering spirit! , imo this is what makes tube rolling so enjoyable and exciting so thank you for including me!, you are a gent sir!.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Yes definitely interested, count me in, I'd like to think I have the pioneering spirit! , imo this is what makes tube rolling so enjoyable and exciting so thank you for including me!, you are a gent sir!.



You're right about tube rolling, S...but it can become somewhat addictive lol! 

And many would rather call me _mad..._which might well be more correct!!

@connieflyer will (bravely!) be trying both the ST-shaped tubes _and_ the straight-sided ones - both can be termed 'CV1052' - the latter much more readily available, and still dirt cheap...there seem to be fewer of the ST type about, going really cheap, at the moment......(how I got 3 NOS for £8 recently I'll never know - but with tubes, you just have to keep looking...then look again!!). And so it will be very interesting to see what cf thinks of 'em lol......

ps. The US version is often termed 'VT52', but must not be confused with the 4-pin, direct-heated, much more expensive VT-52 (note the dash!)


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> You're right about tube rolling, S...but it can become somewhat addictive lol!
> 
> And many would rather call me _mad..._which might well be more correct!!
> 
> ...



h1, regarding tube rolling is it actually possible to buy 1/pair of tubes and leave it at that?, personally I think it's impossible!, I now have amassed 4 boxes of tubes in just 6 months and that's not including a box full of leftovers from my LD mk III days!, perhaps their should be a tube rolling addicts anonymous! .

I've been looking the last day looking for those ST shape which seem to be few and far between, some of which are quite a bit pricier than you paid, (mordy will be envious!) so I'll pick up a pair of the straight bottle from Langrex, at £3.50 each you cant really go wrong.

Good luck also to @connieflyer on those trials, fortune favours the brave!


----------



## DecentLevi

I mysteriously aged 100 years after reading this article ... especially the last sentence, LOL 
https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/v/vacuumtu.htm


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> I mysteriously aged 100 years after reading this article ... especially the last sentence, LOL
> https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/v/vacuumtu.htm



Have no fear DL, they are referring to computer and similar use, where - supposedly - smaller is better. We in hi-fi land know better lol!!!


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## connieflyer

H1, glad to see your sense of humor has not failed you.  Is there any news from FA on the new amp?  Eagerly awaiting any news.  One thing with the new amp, the 2A3, at least tube rolling won't be an option!  Should save me some money there!


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## connieflyer

For awhile, I had more invested in tubes than the amp! Fondly remember this one


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## hypnos1 (May 4, 2018)

Now then guys, I know this subject has been covered many times before, but here's a different slant on tube pin care.

We all know about making sure any corrosion whatsoever is removed and kept at bay by judicious use of a sharp - but not _too_ sharp - instrument...I personally also then like to make sure the surface is as smooth as possible, using fine emery paper, if necessary. The theory behind this is that the metal should then make fuller contact with the kind of socket used in Euforia, and the belief of a specialist in metallurgy that after a while, the two surfaces develop a special kind of bond that improves electron flow, which can only help in sound reproduction...but this only happens in the absence of air! You can believe this or not, depending on one's knowledge, point of view etc.!! 

Anyway folks, something else I found with the NOS EL32s (CV1052) I received was that the pins were coated with a grease-like substance, that obviously protected the 80 year old pins admirably, as after cleaning this off with white spirit, they shone like new...no corrosion whatsoever. So the moral is watch out for this protective coating...which I haven't really noticed before, and which IMHO points to a _very_ well produced tube in the first place lol!! 

And second, I must just mention that the Woo Audio WA33 'Elite' mentioned a while ago - $14,999! - uses single-crystal (OCC) silver wire, which I have been advocating for a while now. For Mr Woo to do this, there must indeed be something in this wire...he does undoubtedly make exceedingly good amps, and does nothing 'just for the sake of it' lol! ...CHEERS!...


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> H1, glad to see your sense of humor has not failed you.  Is there any news from FA on the new amp?  Eagerly awaiting any news.  One thing with the new amp, the 2A3, at least tube rolling won't be an option!  Should save me some money there!



Hi cf...am gradually getting back to my old self lol...thank goodness! The neurologist yesterday confirmed that I suffered post-Chicken Pox complications - ie. brain infection, and not a stroke - which was _better_ news, at least! And which explains my quicker recovery, and bodes well for a complete recovery. But not in time to allow my trip to see the Feliks family at the end of this month, unfortunately......And so I repeat my warning...if one hasn't caught CP as a youngster - GET VACCINATED straight away...you do NOT want to suffer such 'complications'!!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> For awhile, I had more invested in tubes than the amp! Fondly remember this one



Hmmm cf, this is NOT what we want to see on F-A's amps any more lol!! ...if at all possible!... ...


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## connieflyer

You won't see it on any of my amps.  That was long ago and far away, before I knew what real tubes sound like!


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## SnapperMusicFan

hypnos1 said:


> Now then guys, I know this subject has been covered many times before, but here's a different slant on tube pin care.
> 
> We all know about making sure any corrosion whatsoever is removed and kept at bay by judicious use of a sharp - but not _too_ sharp - instrument...I personally also then like to make sure the surface is as smooth as possible, using fine emery paper, if necessary. The theory behind this is that the metal should then make fuller contact with the kind of socket used in Euforia, and the belief of a specialist in metallurgy that after a while, the two surfaces develop a special kind of bond that improves electron flow, which can only help in sound reproduction...but this only happens in the absence of air! You can believe this or not, depending on one's knowledge, point of view etc.!!
> 
> ...



Hi H1,

Glad you’re on the mend, shame you don’t get the chance to see the guys at Feliks Audio. 

I had an email conversation woth Lukasz this week about the new amp, as I’m in the market for a balanced tube amp, I’ve been looking at Woo Audio as an option, They say they use point to point wiring, but if you do a google search fo the WA22 - entry level pre & headphone, it looks like the wiring is pcb based. I like the idea of the WA22 as it uses similar tubes to the Euforia/Elise.

I own a Cyrus Stereo 200 which is a balanced class D power amp. clever design & balanced.
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/cyrus-audio-stereo-200-power-amplifier/
I’m therefore looking for a headphone/preamp tube based that would be balanced, then add a balanced phono stage and dac, to complete.

I’ve done this before (not balanced)  I have my Elise connected to a Cyrus XPower plus PSX-R2, power supply, fed out to a pair of Dynaudio Emit 20’s the combo of valve pre, with SS power really works for my ear. The sound out of this combo with the EL tubes is a fabulous sound.

This time the idea is to feed the Stereo 200 through my LS 50’s for overall sound and then close it down for intimate listening with either MrSpeakers Aeons or Beyer T1 gen 2’s both of which I own.

Coming back to the conversation with Lukasz,
The resut being:-
On the new balanced amp - indeed, we are working hard on a brand new design, 2a3 based, with a lot of power, fully balanced in/out... It will be a big milestone for us, both in sound quality as well as design. I expect it to be ready by end of 2018. He also went on to say that the amp would be competitive price point wise with the competition.

I seriously do love the Feliks Audio sound, and would prefer to buy my third amp from Lukasz.
So I’m keen to wait fro them to see what they come up with. We are all aware of what they are capable of the difference between Elise and Euforia..... enough said. 

Interesting times and I’m really looking forward to what they come up with.

I’m positive it’ll sound great...!!!


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## SnapperMusicFan

oops sorry for the three typos, typing a long message on a phone..... you get the gist...


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## connieflyer (May 4, 2018)

While waiting for EL32's decided to try the Foton's that I got last year.  Not bad, but not stellar.  So I  decided to try for cheap good tubes!  Found a pair of  Ken-Rad VT96 6N7 tube, one was $5 and the other was $4.99 figured that was cheap enough. Both were made in the 1940's and metal tube besides.  Paired them with my 5998A's and was I surprised.  Outstanding, and these tubes are new.  Not burned in and they sound really great.  Great clarity and and instrument separation.  Plenty of bass, mid range is very mellow and the treble is all there.  I was not expecting this to be this good.  I have a pair of Visseaux 6N7's and a pair of RCA 6N7's as well.  And while I really liked the Visseaux's the RCA's left something to be desired.  But these Ken-Rad's are superb.  Under $20 for both tubes with shipping.  Now that is cheap.


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## connieflyer (May 5, 2018)

Liked these so much, just bought 3 more for $21 with shipping, NOS original sleeves.  Quite a bargain.


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## Oskari

Wow! Metal tubes don't get much love. (Probably because they don't glow.)


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## connieflyer

The gold Aero 5998A tubes have enough glow for everyone!


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


>


Lovely! How's the glow on these?


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Liked these so much, just bought another pair for $21 with shipping, NOS original sleeves.  Quite a bargain.



Sounds like a real bargain cf...well done! And KenRad sure do have a good reputation lol!



Oskari said:


> Lovely! How's the glow on these?



Not much to speak of alas, O......but the quality of construction is faultless! All I need now is to see how 2 perform together...such a shame the lower output isn't _quite_ a match for the EL11 - went together marvellously otherwise...(this is where dual mono can be worth its weight in gold...when there's a slight imbalance in volume output between channels!).


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## hypnos1 (May 5, 2018)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> oops sorry for the three typos, typing a long message on a phone..... you get the gist...



Thanks SMF...soon (hopefully) be near 100% lol!... And long(ish) posts can indeed sometimes prove 'tricky'!!

Looks like a very nice system you have there...and it would be interesting to see how F-A's new flagship amp sounded as power amp, compared to your other SS amp(s).

With equal attention to the headphone out, I'm sure it will indeed sound fantastic, and at a very competitive price...fingers crossed! And thanks for the info you got from Lukasz...was hoping for a sooner date than 'end of year', but perhaps 'by the' might just mean it shows itself a bit sooner lol!! ...

ps. Glad you mentioned Euforia being a good bit better than Elise...was beginning to have slight doubts as to my own impressions!! I truly believe F-A's products to sometimes be under-rated...


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## connieflyer

I always thought Euforia sounded better than my Elise.  That is why I sold the Elise.  If they would have been closer in I might have kept it as  a spare.  The Euforia is a more open and resolving amp.  That is why I am wondering if the new amp will be a large step up or not.  I am hoping it will be, as I would like to have a 2A3 amp.  But even if I do get the new amp, I will be keeping the Euforia,  I like it that much.  The more I listen to these Ken-Rad vt-96 the better they sound.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> While waiting for EL32's decided to try the Foton's that I got last year.  Not bad, but not stellar.  So I  decided to try for cheap good tubes!  Found a pair of  Ken-Rad VT96 6N7 tube, one was $5 and the other was $4.99 figured that was cheap enough. Both were made in the 1940's and metal tube besides.  Paired them with my 5998A's and was I surprised.  Outstanding, and these tubes are new.  Not burned in and they sound really great.  Great clarity and and instrument separation.  Plenty of bass, mid range is very mellow and the treble is all there.  I was not expecting this to be this good.  I have a pair of Visseaux 6N7's and a pair of RCA 6N7's as well.  And while I really liked the Visseaux's the RCA's left something to be desired.  But these Ken-Rad's are superb.  Under $20 for both tubes with shipping.  Now that is cheap.


Hi CF,
I remembered that I have a box of metal tubes but could not remember the number VT96. Anyhow, found my box after some searching and discovered that I have these tubes but under the 6N7 designation.
I have five RCA and one National Union, mostly from the early 40's. Have to dig up the adapters and try them tomorrow.
Also have 6N7GT tubes which are supposedly similar with a straight glass envelope, and then the Shoulder Type (ST) called 6SN7G.
As I remember I preferred the 6N7/VT96 over the 6SN7GT tubes.
ATM I am enjoying a four tube Voskhod/Cetron setup with the Euforia: 6N23P and 6336B - maybe even better than Ribbed Anode Fotons and GEC 6080; I have to make a direct comparison to figure which is better sounding.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 6, 2018)

Totally cool and UNEXPECTED news here:

Today I brought my Euforia amp (with favored tube selections) to mark what was apparently the premier appearance of any Feliks Audio amp in the Seattle area meets.

Among dozens of other rigs both solid-state and tube based, the Euforia stood out and some said it was their preference out of many others. Several VERY reputable and established members liked the Euforia, such as @Tjj226 Angel and @Soundsgoodtome , though the meet organizer wasn't quite convinced for it's dynamics / slam.
It was one up there as one of my favorite amps, though not quite to the level of my favorite which was the iFi Pro iCan Mixed Tube and Solid-State amp paired with the Holo Audio DAC level 3 with the newest Hifiman openback flagship... though this may have been only my favorite due to the chosen DAC + headphone pairing. I also liked the Euforia better than the entire line from Schiit Audio which excluded the Rangarok. For the Cavalli Liquid glass amp, I still prefered the Euforia but that may have only had to do with perceived synergy issues with chosen 'cans, and the stock PSVane tubes being used
I didn't actually try many of their amps, but the co-founder lady of Bottlehead amps tried my Euforia and she was very impressed!!! Making sure twice that she was serious... yup, she still liked the F-A sound, even amongst such a prestigious position in the industry! This was a meet-up at the BottleheadQuarters in Bainbridge island. Bottlehead is more of a tube-kit company for DIY-ers and mostly has what may be considered as 'mid-fi' units. But to be fair they are said to mainly specialize in speaker amps.
*Euforia + Focal Utopia is cloud 9*!!! Add on Chord Hugo 2 as the DAC and you're taken to *cloud 9.5*! A real experience on the farthest reaches of audiophile purity and fantasy... a land where you're not only experiencing the recording but where you can basically get a feeling of _interacting _with a good recording... or like 'being there'!!! Seductive, pristine, pure, emotional, timeless. It seems to take the notion I've read from the few negative comments about its' somewhat 'cold' sound and adding some very nice tube warmth. This was vs. my Modi 2 multibit version which was already being enhanced a lot by a chain of 3 USB components behind it.
The main tubes being used were:
- *Telefunken EL12 Spez + RCA 6SN7 GT ('smoked' grey glass)*. This is the pairing everybody liked best, even more than with GEC 6AS7G. The EL12 Spez tubes with its' seemingly limitless FR extension on both sides and organic / smooth sound reproduction with sweet mids and hard hitting 'slam', helped very nicely by the RCA's with their amazingly linear FR and dynamics that are very proper with just the right mix of bass weight and speed. For these RCA 6SN7 GT drivers, they're actually quite rare and hard / impossible to spot; myself having 3 pairs and all looking virtually identical but sounding very different. It's said those were the 'newest' smoked-glass version, still from the vintage era, and it's _not _the VT-231 variant. Mine say RCA "RADIOTRON Electron Tube".

I also put my current all-time favorite combo on display which I discovered just yesterday: an externally powered 6x power tube setup (using 20ah, 6.3v transformer): 2x GEC 6080 + 2x RCA 6080 + 2x 6BL7 (powers) with 2x EL12 Spez as drivers. For me this takes the Euforia's performance up to a whole new level, as if listening to everything for the first time. But somehow there was a weird synergy issue with headphones / tastes present making most people prefer the former combo mentioned above for a _moderately _more slow / dark-ish sound.

Next, it's my pleasure to give a hearty WELCOME to user @xmr0613! You made my day for your praise of the modest Euforia amp -  a 'wolf' disguised in sheep's clothing among many other 'sheep' amps there. Not the world's top amp, but mighty resolving at its' price point. We welcome you on this thread and any questions / comments you may have. I should mention that I as well as the other members of this thread take 0 financial gain on this, we just love spreading the enjoyment and gaining from eachother's insights, and even rare friendships.

Here is the link for meet impressions - check back here for developments in progress
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/seattle-meet-at-bottleheadquarters-5-5-2018-impressions.879076/


----------



## DecentLevi

edited above post


----------



## xmr0613

Thank you very much @DecentLevi for the warm welcome! The Euforia is my favorite amp to pair with Focal Utopia among all the amps I've tried today,  it's extremely smooth and rich, and has an amazing synergy that I found myself hard to describe. It's among the top items of my wish list now.


----------



## connieflyer (May 7, 2018)

Tried theKR VT 96 with the el12N and it was not as good.  Needed a lot more volumn but have the TS 5998's in now and it is much improved.  Similar to the Gold Aero 5998a, .  Should try the GEC 6080's next.  Metal tubes don't glow, but they sure do shine!


----------



## mordy (May 6, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Tried theKR VT 96 with the el12N and it was not as good.  Needed a lot more volumn but have the TS 5998's in now and it is much improved.  Similar to the Gold Aero 5998a, .  Should try the GEC 6080's next.  Metal tubes don't glow, but the sure do shine!


Hi CF,
Here are my shining tubes (they do get quite hot though even though there is zero glow):



These are RCA 6N7 tubes with the date code K3E which I think means 1943 May-June OEM.
They sound very nice with the 6336B which shows that you can never get enough of amp power lol. I am continually amazed how the 6336B tubes enhance most of the tubes they are paired with. The sound of this combination is excellent - thanks for the tip!

I have three other 6N7 tubes: A RCA with a date code S2 which I think means March-April 1942.
Then these two:



The left one is a RCA VT-96/6N7 and the right one a national Union 6N7.
The RCA date code is SC  278 A and the NU date code is DR.
Can't figure out these codes. Perhaps the RCA is from 1942 and the NU from around 1940 - don't know. But I have confidence that Oskari and Gibosi will decipher the codes.
And how can I describe the sound? Initial impression is a very even FR across with very good detail - a natural, engaging very pleasant presentation.


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> Here are my shining tubes (they do get quite hot though even though there is zero glow):
> 
> These are RCA 6N7 tubes with the date code K3E which I think means 1943 May-June OEM.
> ...



WOW!!!!
After two hours these 76 year old tubes woke up! Open, airy, lively and thoroughly engaging - I am dancing in my listening chair! Thanks, CF!
Great tone, soundstage, pace, timing - suddenly a new dimension to the sound....
Tremendous impact in the bass and treble and great midrange......


----------



## connieflyer

I am quite impressed with these tubes. Kind of funny that nobody really got into them but I suppose because they didn't have that glow that they just weren't popular for someone that had an app that was sitting next to him that they can look at. Myself I very seldom ever look at the app so whether it glows or not is definitely not a deciding factor for me. Plus they look kind of cool because they're different! I've got three more  KR's on the way in so I should be good with these for a while. Just when you thought there was nothing else to find things just happened.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 6, 2018)

Hi everybody, say hello to new member @xmr0613. I see you liked the EL12 Spez +  RCA 6SN7 GT smoked glass sound, which on my system is well extended with crisp highs & sweet mids, and a bass that's well defined with a lot of weight but not the fastest out there; which would seem to be suitable for your Focal Utopias. Is this the kind of sound signature you're looking for? Or let us know what kind of a sound you're after because with the Euforia you can literally 'dial in' any sound you want by tube rolling with much greater range than EQ'ing, allowing you to customize dynamics / damping (a sort of 'snap speed'), tone, frequency, soundstage, etc. The Euforia has 4 sockets for tubes: two in the back we call "power tubes", and two in the front we call "driver tubes".

And with the upcoming amp that Feliks Audio's got on the table for later this year, I'd recon you just may find some used Euforia amps floating around a bit later. Though I may still recommend the Euforia amp due to its' unique tube rolling possibilities and prowess at an affordable cost tier.

I would definitely have some tube recommendations, and while I've already tried hundreds of combinations, I'm still not famaliar with the 6N7 or VT-96 tubes, or if they perform any better. Are the circuits / voltage specs truly compatible, and is it sanctified for use with this amp? Are those two the same or any different? And then there's the upcoming VT-52 tubes which would also beg the above questions, as well as have yet to be properly evaluated for sound.

How about @hypnos1 , I'll bet you have a few words for this page...


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> The left one is a RCA VT-96/6N7 and the right one a national Union 6N7.
> The RCA date code is SC 278 A and the NU date code is DR.
> Can't figure out these codes. Perhaps the RCA is from 1942 and the NU from around 1940 - don't know. But I have confidence that Oskari and Gibosi will decipher the codes.


I'm afraid I don't know the NU code. The other one is not a date code. SC A = Army Signal Corps.


----------



## mordy

Oskari said:


> I'm afraid I don't know the NU code. The other one is not a date code. SC A = Army Signal Corps.[/QUOT
> Thanks Oskari - Army Signal Corps; interesting.
> Bet that 278 is a date code from 1942 - 78th day maybe?


----------



## Oskari

mordy said:


> Bet that 278 is a date code from 1942 - 78th day maybe?


It must be something else because this number doesn't change like a date code would.


----------



## Johnnysound

Soviet vs. Russians:  The preamp section of the Jolida is straightforward: 2x12AT7 Electroharmonix and 2x12AX7 Tung Sols, both Russian reissues, and the power section is 4xEL34 Electroarmonix, i think a modern copy of the classic Mullard.  Well, it rocks in the bass, and It was not easy to get that level of bass impact with the Euforia as a preamp,  until I bring my
cold war weapons  to the battle:  military Melz 6N1-P triple mica from ‘63, and tank-like “Winged C” 6N5Ps from 1960 or so...the vintage soviets at least equaled and often surpassed the russians in the bass, only with a more detached, airy, really clean and, well, refined sound courtesy of the Euforia.  I suspect the 6N8Ps will hit even harder, but a bit less refined ?....we’ll see


----------



## hypnos1 (May 7, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> Soviet vs. Russians:  The preamp section of the Jolida is straightforward: 2x12AT7 Electroharmonix and 2x12AX7 Tung Sols, both Russian reissues, and the power section is 4xEL34 Electroarmonix, i think a modern copy of the classic Mullard.  Well, it rocks in the bass, and It was not easy to get that level of bass impact with the Euforia as a preamp,  until I bring my
> cold war weapons  to the battle:  military Melz 6N1-P triple mica from ‘63, and tank-like “Winged C” 6N5Ps from 1960 or so...the vintage soviets at least equaled and often surpassed the russians in the bass, only with a more detached, airy, really clean and, well, refined sound courtesy of the Euforia.  I suspect the 6N8Ps will hit even harder, but a bit less refined ?....we’ll see



Hi J...I myself always found the Russians to - as you say - hit harder in the bass section, but for me, their lesser performance in overall detail and refinement, especially when compared to something like the EL tubes, never really seemed attractive in the end. But as usual YMMV!



xmr0613 said:


> Thank you very much @DecentLevi for the warm welcome! The Euforia is my favorite amp to pair with Focal Utopia among all the amps I've tried today,  it's extremely smooth and rich, and has an amazing synergy that I found myself hard to describe. It's among the top items of my wish list now.



First, I must say to @DecentLevi, your posts re. the Seattle meet were very interesting...especially how Euforia was greeted with enthusiasm by most folks there. It really is a first class amp, and deserves more recognition IMHO. As you say (and has been said many times before), it responds extremely well to tube rolling - I could indeed say a great deal more, but I've already done so ad infinitum (nauseum?!!). But the fact that those at the meet preferred the EL12 Spezial even to the mighty GEC 6AS7G speaks volumes, and reinforces my sorrow that F-A can't in fact officially endorse the EL tubes, despite their undoubted prowess in their amps! (I hope to have a second EL32/CV1052/VT52 at least ready for testing in the next week, which should prove interesting lol...).
ps. It is the VT52...*without* the hyphen inbetween!...that is the US equivalent of the EL32/CV1052. The VT-52 is another animal entirely, and cannot (unfortunately!) be used in our amps...

Anyway, now to say WELCOME to you xmr0613...am so glad you were impressed with Euforia. You must indeed get saving now lol!  As for tubes, there are so many to try...be sure you save good and hard!! But if you really loved what you heard at the meet, I suspect you may already have a good idea of what to go for, and save yourself a good bit of expense...even if only(!!) to find the driver tubes that suit you best. Whatever, take your time, and if you can manage it there's a wealth of info to be found in past posts here, as well as the sister Elise threads...not to mention specific 6SN7 threads, if the EL drivers don't suit......GOOD LUCK!...CJ

ps. Am envious of your Utopias...just wish their price was a bit more hobbyist-friendly!!


----------



## mordy

Finally got a pair of a 6SN7 predecessor - the Tung Sol 6F8G. They live up to their reputation with a glorious very wide sound stage and beautiful tone:



Powered by 2x5A of Cetron 6336B tubes from an external power supply. Discovered that the secret to good sound from these double 6080 tubes is a 20A voltage regulator connected to an ample 20A power supply (or a 20A 6,3v transformer).
Shown here is the voltage regulator attached to the back of the transformer housing using a patented rubber suspension:



I am using a 4" PC fan to cool the amp and voltage regulator. The huge heat sinks on the voltage regulator don't even get warm to the touch.
Both tubes are made by Tung Sol, but one is relabeled Radiocoin. That tube has no markings except for the 6F8G; the TS tube has a an additional marking 22.
The EIA (Electronics Industry Association) three digit codes came into use in 1946; the Tung Sol code is 322, but I don't think that it is related to the number 22 on the tube.
February 1942?
Somehow these tubes are among the most beautiful looking that I have......


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## DecentLevi (May 8, 2018)

mordy said:


> Finally got a pair of a 6SN7 predecessor - the Tung Sol 6F8G. They live up to their reputation with a glorious very wide sound stage and beautiful tone:
> 
> Powered by 2x5A of Cetron 6336B tubes from an external power supply. Discovered that the secret to good sound from these double 6080 tubes is a 20A voltage regulator connected to an ample 20A power supply (or a 20A 6,3v transformer).
> Shown here is the voltage regulator attached to the back of the transformer housing using a patented rubber suspension:
> ...


Hi @mordy, any comments on the difference in sound between the 6F8G and 6N7 or VT-96 drivers? And does it make any sense to get a pair of both 6N7 and VT-96, or would you say they basically both sound the same?

I was about to get a pair of the latter but I realised I also need an ECC31 adapter. Are there any recommended state-side adapters available or is it only from Hong Kong? And for those 6F8G tubes, looks like you had to custom fashion an adapter?

RE the 20ah 6.v power supply for the 6x power tube board - I have just a transformer unit, complete with switch and wall socket - a very good unit sold by JazzVinyl from his Elise. Are you saying that this sounds better with a voltage regulator in addition to a transformer??? And why?

Finally I get a feeling we're making this look quite challenging to a novice, so hopefully if @xmr0613 would let us know his sonic preference, then we can point him in the direction of an easier combo. Becauase the Euforia also has fantastic performance without any special adapters / circuits as well... And in case some of our previous terms threw you off in terms of 'sonic preferences', what I mean is to explain the sound you're looking for - example: slow heavy bass, fast heavy bass, liquid/sweet mids, natural mids, soft treble, edgy treble, hard hitting drums / dynamics, large soundstage (virtual reality effect), etc...


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hi @mordy, any comments on the difference in sound between the 6F8G and 6N7 or VT-96 drivers? And does it make any sense to get a pair of both 6N7 and VT-96, or would you say they basically both sound the same?
> 
> I was about to get a pair of the latter but I realised I also need an ECC31 adapter. Are there any recommended state-side adapters available or is it only from Hong Kong? And for those 6F8G tubes, looks like you had to custom fashion an adapter?
> 
> ...


Hi DL,
I am new to the 6F8G sound so I need more time to crystallize out how they sound. In addition to the pair of Tung Sol tubes I am now trying out a pair of Raytheon/Philco 6F8G.
First impression is that the 6F8G has an expansive, sweet organic sound - something akin to vinyl vs solid state. Great soundstage and detail as well - a winner.
The 6N7/VT-96 is different - more energetic and punchy and not as sweet and majestic but still very enjoyable.
There is no difference between 6N7 and VT-96 - the latter designation is a military one. You do need special adapters that also work for the 6S7G and 6SN7GT and ECC31 tubes - thought you had these already.
The 6F8G tube has an anode cap and needs special adapters. I am not capable of making my own adapters and usually buy from China; however this guy in Poland makes a beautiful 6F8G adapter which was recommended by UT. It took two weeks for it to come - usually it takes longer from China.
You have a much better setup than me for external power; your transformer puts out 6.3V and therefore you do not need a voltage regulator. I use a PC power supply that puts out 12V and that is why I need a voltage regulator to get 6.3V. My previous voltage regulator was rated 15A but that was not enough for my 2x5A=10A current draw. Apparently the tubes spike a current draw on start-up that was too much for this 15A regulator, and a 20A voltage regulator solved that problem and improved the sound a lot.
Regarding giving advice to new members I am not so quick to direct people to do this or that since people have such different tastes and equipment.
I like inexpensive, good sounding tubes and then the trick is to find good synergistic combinations between driver and power tubes. And is something sounds good it will make everything sound good....
An inexpensive top notch driver tube is the 1952-55 ribbed anode Foton 6N8S and you could pair it with the RCA 6080 or RCA 6AS7G for very good results with not much money.
Or you could buy a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7 black round plates and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. This will sound very good, but you could spend over $1200 on this....


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ps. It is the VT52...*without* the hyphen inbetween!...that is the US equivalent of the EL32/CV1052. The VT-52 is another animal entirely, and cannot (unfortunately!) be used in our amps...


It's even worse than that. There are three different VT52s: RAF VT52, GPO VT52, and US VT-52. It is the RAF VT52 that is the EL32/CV1052 equivalent.


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## DecentLevi (May 8, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> I am new to the 6F8G sound so I need more time to crystallize out how they sound. In addition to the pair of Tung Sol tubes I am now trying out a pair of Raytheon/Philco 6F8G.
> First impression is that the 6F8G has an expansive, sweet organic sound - something akin to vinyl vs solid state. Great soundstage and detail as well - a winner.
> The 6N7/VT-96 is different - more energetic and punchy and not as sweet and majestic but still very enjoyable.
> ...



Yup, I'm not quick to recommend tubes to new members anymore, that's why I ask for sonic preferences first... Going by what xmr0613 liked and by the overall however, I would say one can't do wrong with the Mullard 6080 + GE 6SN7 GTA - for a good performing budget combo to add some weight to the slightly sweet / bright-_leaning _tone of the Utopia headphones.

Great, I'll go for the VT-96 instead of 6F8G since I prefer more of a punchy not so sweet sound. I used to have ECC31 adapters but they were externally powered and I let them go.

I've got a Triad external transformer, which is a nice hand-crafted kit complete with on/off switch and power chord and ceramic tile board, thanks to @JazzVinyl that he used to use with the Elise. As you said, with a transformer outputting the correct voltage, you don't need a regulator - though I do use an external fan as recommended.




Basic impressions of this above addition to the Euforia are as follows:
- Single (compatible) powers sound better directly in the Euforia
- Multiple pairs of tubes sound better with this. EG, 4-6 tubes always sound better than any singe pair of tubes
- This 6x adapter board can enable better overall sound than any combination of tubes directly in the amp, with two caveats: performance with this is highly dependent on synergy amoung chosen tubes, and it can take days or even weeks to try all possible combinations you may have. Also of course for certain recordings you may still find yourself going back to a "one tube per socket" setup on occasion.
- Combos that are NOT compatible or otherwise exhibit distortion/hum with this board are multiple pairs of EL11 /12, and 6BL7 + 6SN7. Literally hundreds of other combinations are possible.
- 6336 tubes: for me, these have a similar performance to the Tung-Sol 5998 in which the bass definition suffers in speed and is somewhat rolled off, dynamics lacking 'snap' and and are a bit closer to the 'sweet' tone than I'd like. This is with NOS mint contidion Cetron 6336 tubes after many trials over weeks, though this may _theoretically _change with burn-in. also I've noticed that 6336 tubes always perform better when paired with other powers, especially 6BL7 and GEC 6080; more full-bodied, punchy and resolving, vs. a somewhat lacking sound when solo.
- This externally heated power set seems to somehow prefer drivers that are extra dynamic and punchy; 9-pin octals such such as 6N23P, 6FQ7 or RCA 12AV7, also Telefunken EL12 or EL12 Spez.

This mod shown is also heavy, seeming a good 5/8th's of the total weight of the Euforia, but for me it's a great upgrade to the amp!

*Disclaimer:*
The above are all my personal opinions and are subject to change, and this configuration is not officially sanctified by Feliks Audio.

Hey anybody else notice what looks like a cute little bear hugging my tree out back?


LOL I guess crazy tube rolling (in_addition_to) a hectic schedule can take one off one's rocker. Not to mention crazier combos I've withheld from here. But my system is singing splendid nevertheless!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Finally got a pair of a 6SN7 predecessor - the Tung Sol 6F8G. They live up to their reputation with a glorious very wide sound stage and beautiful tone:


mordy,

If you like the 6F8G "sound" then you may well like the Ken Rad 6F8G, I don't have the TS to compare but the KR has a very nice sound, transparent, very good detail, expansive sound too, good detailed high extension, warm relaxed mids and deep warm bass, for me, a real winner.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> mordy,
> 
> If you like the 6F8G "sound" then you may well like the Ken Rad 6F8G, I don't have the TS to compare but the KR has a very nice sound, transparent, very good detail, expansive sound too, good detailed high extension, warm relaxed mids and deep warm bass, for me, a real winner.



Hi Scutey,
Thanks for the recommendation- you describe the 6F8G sound very well; I would only add the word “creamy” to the description lol.
Will be looking for more, but the price has to be right- seems these tubes sell on their looks alone with commensurate prices....


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> Thanks for the recommendation- you describe the 6F8G sound very well; I would only add the word “creamy” to the description lol.
> Will be looking for more, but the price has to be right- seems these tubes sell on their looks alone with commensurate prices....


Hi mordy,
I agree, "creamy" really sums up the KR in just one word!, you're also right about the 6F8G, although they are lookers, perhaps the George Clooney of tubes? lol, having said all that still love the "ugly" Foton Ribber Anode!


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Yup, I'm not quick to recommend tubes to new members anymore, that's why I ask for sonic preferences first... Going by what xmr0613 liked and by the overall however, I would say one can't do wrong with the Mullard 6080 + GE 6SN7 GTA - for a good performing budget combo to add some weight to the slightly sweet / bright-_leaning _tone of the Utopia headphones.
> 
> Great, I'll go for the VT-96 instead of 6F8G since I prefer more of a punchy not so sweet sound. I used to have ECC31 adapters but they were externally powered and I let them go.
> 
> ...


Hi DL,
Tried your recipe with an extra pair of power tubes in addition to the Cetrons - the 6BL7. Unfortunately this did not work for me; the sound became bloated with muddy bass.
Just the Cetrons and certain driver tubes like the VT-96, 6N23P or 6F8G works very well, and I don't perceive any of the negatives you mention above -YMMV....
Also, running the GEC 6080 with the Cetrons amounts to 15A which may be the maximum your transformer can handle.
Maybe you bought the Mullard 6080 when the price was low, but a quick check now shows the price for a pair to be around $110 and up - not sure if this qualifies as a budget tube.
Whereas you could get a pair of RCA 6080 for $15 or less if you shop carefully. Similar prices for a pair of RCA 6AS7G....


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## Wreckgar7

Hi guys, been running EL6 tube for a while, really like them. Was wondering if the EL5 tube would be possible to use also?


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## mordy

Wreckgar7 said:


> Hi guys, been running EL6 tube for a while, really like them. Was wondering if the EL5 tube would be possible to use also?


Hi W7,
I have used the EL6 which is similar to the EL12 with a different base. Seems the EL5 has the same pinout (be sure to double check) and this is the little I could find out:

"EL6: 18 W power output pentode with almost twice the sensitivity as the EL5, intended for applications designed for normal output pentodes as the EL3, but where twice the output power is desired."
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el5.html


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## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> It's even worse than that. There are three different VT52s: RAF VT52, GPO VT52, and US VT-52. It is the RAF VT52 that is the EL32/CV1052 equivalent.



Thanks O...the* four*-pin VT-52 is indeed the only US-made tube here, and VERY expensive...and cannot be used in our amps.

Any *eight*-pin octal-based VT52/EL32/CV1052 tube should do the job...the ST type being much more expensive (and presumably better, therefore?!) than the very cheap straight-sided version. But @connieflyer will be able to confirm whether this is indeed the case when I can eventually get the parts needed for adapters lol!


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## hypnos1

Hi @mordy ...the 6F8G is certainly a well-regarded tube...especially the Tung Sol round plate!

And although I applaud your use, and findings re. the 6336 tube, I must once again advise users of F-A's amps NOT to try this powerful tube. Even though its heater is powered by an external source and a fan is used, it appears this tube can place an enormous strain on the cathode resistors, which Feliks Audio have not configured for.

This is not IMHO at all good for the longevity of our amps, and cannot be recommended. Please, folks, take this as a friendly warning...CJ


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## connieflyer

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks O...the* four*-pin VT-52 is indeed the only US-made tube here, and VERY expensive...and cannot be used in our amps.
> 
> Any *eight*-pin octal-based VT52/EL32/CV1052 tube should do the job...the ST type being much more expensive (and presumably better, therefore?!) than the very cheap straight-sided version. But @connieflyer will be able to confirm whether this is indeed the case when I can eventually get the parts needed for adapters lol!


   funny you should mention this h, just got all four tubes this afternoon. All 4tubes look to be in very good condition ,original boxes for the straight-sided tubes and replacement boxes for the shoulder style tubes. I was surprised that the got here as quickly as they did. Tubes came from two different sellers so that was interesting. I had a laugh yesterday when the three KR VT 96 tubes came in the date was March of 1944 it was three months before I was born! And I must say they look to be in a lot better condition than I do!


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## DecentLevi (May 9, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> Tried your recipe with an extra pair of power tubes in addition to the Cetrons - the 6BL7. Unfortunately this did not work for me; the sound became bloated with muddy bass.
> Just the Cetrons and certain driver tubes like the VT-96, 6N23P or 6F8G works very well, and I don't perceive any of the negatives you mention above -YMMV....
> Also, running the GEC 6080 with the Cetrons amounts to 15A which may be the maximum your transformer can handle.
> ...



Peculiar indeed - looks like we are largely getting opposite results with our (externally powered) 6336 tube setup on the Euforia. Considering the great difference between our external power setup _(20A voltage regulator + 20A power supply, vs. single Triad a 20A 6,3v transformer; both customized)_, it's no wonder we're hearing different results. I noticed first hand with my unit how the power source can alter the sound, being that I was actually getting quite a bass anemic / thin sound during the first 8+ hours of external transformer burn-in. I would venture to say that my preferred tube combo would sound good to you on my exact system, as well as yours on your system, both not visa-versa. It's just that our external power is affecting the sound quite differently on each other's systems. The 'take home' on this is that what may sound good on one externally powered tube setup may not sound good on another, so I will be even more cautious on any 'blanket recommendations' for tube combos with this externally powered 6x. setup.

But we do both agree on general driver tube pairings.

Good point, the RCA 6080 is very close to the performance of Mullard 6080 at a fraction of the cost, and though I don't prefer these 'solo', _to me_ has some super outstanding fluke-synergy with other tubes on the 6x powered strip.

Actually I haven't even been using the 6336 recently, save for better synergy on this 6x board (and 1-tube-per-socket) with other combos.


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @mordy ...the 6F8G is certainly a well-regarded tube...especially the Tung Sol round plate!
> 
> And although I applaud your use, and findings re. the 6336 tube, I must once again advise users of F-A's amps NOT to try this powerful tube. Even though its heater is powered by an external source and a fan is used, it appears this tube can place an enormous strain on the cathode resistors, which Feliks Audio have not configured for.
> 
> This is not IMHO at all good for the longevity of our amps, and cannot be recommended. Please, folks, take this as a friendly warning...CJ


Hi h1,
You scared me so I disconnected my Frankenstein contraption and switched back to approved power tubes, in this case the GEC 6080. Sounds good with the 6F8G but I miss the 6336B....
Hopefully I will get an amp in the near future that can handle such a load......


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## Johnnysound (May 11, 2018)

...


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## SnapperMusicFan

I have been playing with a pair of 6H8C's in with a pair of EL12's this gives a tight bass, great with acoustic guitar/female voice. I really love the sound of the EL11's in the Elise as well at the moment I have a pair of RFT EL11's in with a pair of EL3n's sounds superb through
t1 gen2's

I am trying to work out if you have an amplifier that takes 6SN7 drivers powered by 6AS7G/6080 can you use the EL tubes across any brand of amplifier thats powered by these tubes or does the internal circuitry prevent this?


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## DecentLevi

Snapper no wonder your drivers sound good. Those are the holy grail of 6H8C's and very scarce / costly. My Melz 6H8C drivers performed very lowly. Good camera too - recon that's not a phone cam?
Definitely amp and/or tube brands make no difference in compatibility; it's the circuitry / specs that matters. Though some brands can sound different than other tubes even with a near similar design.


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## SnapperMusicFan

DecentLevi said:


> Snapper no wonder your drivers sound good. Those are the holy grail of 6H8C's and very scarce / costly. My Melz 6H8C drivers performed very lowly. Good camera too - recon that's not a phone cam?
> Definitely amp and/or tube brands make no difference in compatibility; it's the circuitry / specs that matters. Though some brands can sound different than other tubes even with a near similar design.



Many thanks DL, I find it really interesting that Feliks Audio doesn't outwardly approve the EL series of tubes, but someone - (H1..??) worked out they would work fabulously with both Elise and Euforia, so is this because someone took a Euforia apart and worked out that
these tubes would work? I have been looking at a WA22 as that takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia, but the advantage is it's balanced output pre & headphone, this takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia & if I could get the detail I get out of the EL tubes on a balanced
system, that would be amazing..

I so agree with you I have a pair of Telefunken EL11's that sound quite different to the pair of RFT EL11's.

I have two pairs of these 6H8C's I bought them a few years ago when the price was reasonable, so glad I did. The camera is an iPhone 8 plus with an added sprinkling of photoshop...


----------



## mordy

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Many thanks DL, I find it really interesting that Feliks Audio doesn't outwardly approve the EL series of tubes, but someone - (H1..??) worked out they would work fabulously with both Elise and Euforia, so is this because someone took a Euforia apart and worked out that
> these tubes would work? I have been looking at a WA22 as that takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia, but the advantage is it's balanced output pre & headphone, this takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia & if I could get the detail I get out of the EL tubes on a balanced
> system, that would be amazing..
> 
> ...


Hi SMF,
The EL3N is a pentode and the octal tubes usable in the Elise/Euforia are dual triodes. In order to use the EL3N in the FA amps you have to use a specially made adapter that converts the pentode to a triode (pentode strapped triode). The driver circuitry is different than another amps (two tubes in parallell) and I don't think that the adapters for the FA amps are compatible with other amps with different circuitry.
I may be wrong on this since I do not understand this stuff that well - best to check with someone who has a good grasp of this topic.


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## DecentLevi (May 11, 2018)

Also some tube amps use a sort of auto-kill function (such as Cavalli Liquid Glass IIRC) for tubes that aren't exactly in spec. If you're looking for an upgrade from the Euforia with your same tubes, I'd say the *Ulysses amp* is a good option, a name @UntilThen came up with for his Glenn amp, which he said is even better than the Rangarok which is already leagues above the current F-A offerings, which must have a staggering performance! One of the rare times I would ever recommend gear without trying it, simply because of the universal and unwavering positive reviews from his amps, from specific people who I trust. I'm thinking UT may have also been the pioneer of EL3N and/or EL11,12 tubes in our amps - IIRC. Or if you don't mind retiring from tube rolling, later this year F-A also has on the table a 2A3 amp which uses tubes very similar to the top performing 300B's.

Also I have learned from direct experience that it really doesn't matter if an amp is balanced or SE - either can perform just as well, depending on the design/specs of the amp.


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## DecentLevi (May 11, 2018)

ATTENTION ALL EUFORIA OWNERS - MUST HEAR MUSIC!

OK this is one of those rare times out of all the countless hours of music I listen to that I'm actually going out of my way to recommend an album on this thread.
*Art of Noise - The Ambient Collection*
and
*Art of Noise - Who's Afraid of the Art Of Noise*





Art Of Noise was an early 80's British electronic music group, following in the footsteps of Kraftwerk and heralding out of the analogue era, in that their electronic works consist of many analogue samples and gear. Being a multi-decade electronic music fan and even composer, the way these two albums on the Euforia gave me an experience I shall never forget. Stunning in every sense of the word - one of the most transcendental, borderlining spiritual experience I have ever had in home hi-fi. I felt an earthquake below my feet when I was listening to one of the songs from their ambient album - *literally *. While I'll never know if the earthquake was a tremor or imagined from the sheer sonic bewilderment, all I know is that I'm happier after hearing these albums on the Euforia. Read here what they say about their ambient album. These should be available on your favorite lossless service and if not, it's worth getting a hard copy CD. I also enjoyed their album "Daft", and "Reconstructed... For Your Listening Pleasure" maybe even more because these are available on ultra hi-fi SACD / DSD format. Highly recommended for mellow and traditional electronic sounds. There are even a few songs that made it into semi-popular radiostations and I had no idea it was mastered so well until I heard a lossless copy on the Euforia!

... and the unique tube combo I used played no small role


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## UntilThen

Hey @DecentLevi  you woke me up from my slumber or should I say my music listening sessions, when you mention my name. 

I need to correct you on 'being the pioneer of EL3N and/or EL11,12 in Elise / Euforia'. All I did was spotting the Mazda EL3N on ebay whilst searching for Mazda 6N7G tubes. I posted a picture of that Mazda EL3N on the earlier Elise thread and jokingly ask @hypnos1 to get it to work on Elise. I didn't expect him to try it but he did. The rest is history. EL3N became widely used as drivers in Elise. I was an early adopter. I also go on to try the EL3N as power tubes in Elise. Much later hypnos started experimenting with EL11 as drivers for Elise. Thereafter EL12 and all the variants followed.

Great photo there @SnapperMusicFan . Stunning picture.

My foray into tubes started with a Aune T1 which didn't even belong to me. My son bought it and I was so intrigued with the solitary tube that was used for the DAC section. Thereafter I bought a 2nd hand DarkVoice 336se that was soon followed by Elise and almost a year later, Euforia. Then I bought a 2nd hand La Figaro 339. Then I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. 6 months after Ragnarok I bought Ulysses or Glenn Super 9 OTL amp. My slow start into head-fi has progressed at a bullet train speed. Each of those purchase has certainly been an upgrade in sound and musicality - for me. In my opinion of course.

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp sounds incredible now with Yggdrasil as source and HD800 / LCD-2f / Eikon and Atticus as headphones. My preferred tubes in the OTL amp is Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x GE 6BX7gt power tubes. This could and should have been the end of the road for me. This setup is that good.... and I've heard lots of stunning gear in the past 3 years, including Blue Hawaii amp with Stax SR009 / 007, Woo Audio WA5LE, Violectric V281, Woo Audio WA22, etc.

However there will be one more tube amp for me and it will involve DHT (direct heated tubes) of either 300b or 2A3 tubes.

Cheers and enjoy the music !


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## Johnnysound (May 12, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J...I myself always found the Russians to - as you say - hit harder in the bass section, but for me, their lesser performance in overall detail and refinement, especially when compared to something like the EL tubes, never really seemed attractive in the end. But as usual YMMV..



Oh yes, H1, but you better forget about detail  and refinement when your 22 year old kid and his friends want to hear some ELECTRONIC music in dad’s stereo...


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> You scared me so I disconnected my Frankenstein contraption and switched back to approved power tubes, in this case the GEC 6080. Sounds good with the 6F8G but I miss the 6336B....
> Hopefully I will get an amp in the near future that can handle such a load......



Hi mordy.

I'm so sorry the 6336 tube is so much of an animal. I know you found it sounded good in Euforia, but it really isn't worth the risk...and F-A certainly would NOT want to know any amp problems with this tube in place lol!! An amp specifically designed for this tube, and with appropriate circuitry, is the only way to be safe with it...although even then, I dread to think what a short-circuit in such a powerful tube might do to the amp lol!! . Happy safe listening to everyone!...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Oh yes, H1, but you better forget about detail  and refinement when your 22 year old kid and his friends want to hear some ELECTRONIC music in dad’s stereo...



Hi J...indeed, lol!  . But as I much prefer acoustic instruments, as in cello/violin/acoustic guitar/piano/orchestra...not to mention _proper_ singing!... the choice is academic!! ...(but I do also like the addition of _some _electronic, as in 'New Age' music/Clannad/ELO/Loreena McKennitt etc.). But it does, of course, take all sorts lol! ...CHEERS!...


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## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> I have been playing with a pair of 6H8C's in with a pair of EL12's this gives a tight bass, great with acoustic guitar/female voice. I really love the sound of the EL11's in the Elise as well at the moment I have a pair of RFT EL11's in with a pair of EL3n's sounds superb through
> t1 gen2's
> 
> *I am trying to work out if you have an amplifier that takes 6SN7 drivers powered by 6AS7G/6080 can you use the EL tubes across any brand of amplifier thats powered by these tubes or does the internal circuitry prevent this?*



Hi SMF...a couple of things to answer here lol. But first, great photo indeed!...keep 'em coming!

As @mordy said, different amps will have different circuits, and it will be difficult to tell just how the EL tubes perform in them. If only one 6SN7 driver is used, for example, a double adapter would be needed to feed both triode sections...but each on the adapter would have to be wired differently - one for left and one right, of course! But 2 drivers, as in Elise & Euforia would _probably_ have the triodes linked in parallel. The same goes for 6AS7 power tubes...unless configured as 'push-pull'.

I must admit, however, that I'm convinced F-A's circuit design differs from many others in such a way as to enable optimum performance of EL tubes, even though their 'measurements' contradict this somewhat! And the fact that everything inside the amp - resistors, capacitors etc. - runs about 10 C cooler than sanctioned tubes is an added bonus...(I went inside the amp and measured the temp. of _everything, _just to be sure!...and the area immediately below the transformer ran an enormous *20 C* cooler!!). This is definitely a case of practice over-riding theory BIG time...

I also notice you had EL12Ns in the power seat...the EL12 Spezial, with top anode connection, is a good bit better lol! 

And thanks to @UntilThen for explaining the origins of the EL tubes - his spotting of this 'pretty', red-skirted EL3N sparked my interest enough for me to adapt it and try...the rest is, as said, history!

But it doesn't stop at the EL11/12 family...as I mention to @connieflyer below, my intrigue at the* ST-shape* EL32/CV1052 is proving far more exciting than anticipated...already my experiments are pointing towards a tube that IMHO is even 'better' than the EL3N or the magical EL11...and could well at least match my extremely rare _mesh-plated_ Philips (Australia) EL3N*G* and Valvo black glass EL11, also with mesh plate...and which has me dumbfounded lol!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (May 12, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> funny you should mention this h, just got all four tubes this afternoon. All 4tubes look to be in very good condition ,original boxes for the straight-sided tubes and replacement boxes for the shoulder style tubes. I was surprised that the got here as quickly as they did. Tubes came from two different sellers so that was interesting. I had a laugh yesterday when the three KR VT 96 tubes came in the date was March of 1944 it was three months before I was born! And I must say they look to be in a lot better condition than I do!



That sounds good cf...all I need now is for the top caps to arrive from Hong Kong...the rest of the adapter gear arrived in record time also...(I suspect that China may well have supplies of some goods in Germany, which could explain it lol).

Anyway, mon ami, my excitement at your own findings mounts by the hour...these NOS ST-shaped CV1052 of mine are proving exceptional tubes. Last night I wasn't sure if they'd be able to match the EL3N and EL11, but as usual, I was much too premature in my judgment! Now they have nearly 20 hours on them, they are already nearly matching my (almost impossible to find) mesh-plated EL3NG and EL11...and at this rate will probably easily equal them...totally unexpected lol!!

Again, they have deathly silent background, with no hint whatsoever of hum, hiss etc., and no startup 'tinkle', 'pinking' etc. of any kind. These are the quietest tubes I have ever encountered, and are also the coolest-running...drawing only 0.2 amp heater current, with lower plate draw/emission as well. If anything, they match - as drivers - the EL12 Spez powers even _better_ than anything else I've tried to date...I can only hope they continue to improve even further!...which every EL tube has done so far, and which bodes very well indeed. As I've said before, I'm firmly convinced that F-A's circuit design actually _helps_ these EL tubes perform far better than theory would dictate.

In short, given the peanuts I was lucky to get these NOS tubes for makes them the bargain of the millenium, not just the century...I am more than happy/impressed lol...... (I'm also convinced using UP-OCC silver and copper wires in adapting the tubes has helped, so that is what I shall use in the adapters!).

Can't wait therefore to see if your straight-sided tubes perform as well as the ST-shaped ones...it will be a (wonderful!) miracle if they do!!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (May 12, 2018)

@hypnos1 interesting progress of the VT52 tubes, would be interesting to hear your impression / comparison after trying two tubes. About the adapter for this, I'll bet we can find another vendor such as another botique amp maker or adapter seller who can fashion a nicely built adapter for these - that is, unless Xuling has premium wires to make one. However these tubes are very hard to find so may not even be enough for all the handful of users on this thread to get one.

Also at only 0.2ah, I would presume one best not try these as powers, in case they may somehow take more than the current needed right?


----------



## DecentLevi (May 12, 2018)

Incoming today were my VT-96 / 6N7. I ordered a pair or Ken-Rad and RCA so I can compare the two. My adapters are still en-route from China.


Thinking the listing was for 1 "tube" instead of "pair", I ordered 2 and ended up with what appears to be a bonus pair: 12SG7 / VT-209. _(RCA CRC 12SG7). _Checking the data online, looks like these are 12.6v, 0.15ah. Double the voltage output, but I wonder if somehow these would work in the provided ECC31 adapter, in the same way that 12AV7's work with a special adapter that halves the voltage?


... and what about this hexagon-like 12SG7? Looks like a futuristic prototype from Singapore if you ask me... complete with a hot red border! 
​


----------



## mordy

HI DL,
Just got a pair of Ken Rad VT-96/SN7 tubes today. They came in the original JAN boxes from 1944 and looked like they had not been opened for 74 years!
I made a shamelessly low offer and the seller counter offered with a price of $5 each.
(If anybody is interested in this source please PM me).
For some reason I paired them with a pair of Chatham 6080 and the initial impression is that they sound quite good.
So many choices!


----------



## Johnnysound (May 13, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> ......
> 
> Anyway, mon ami, my excitement at your own findings mounts by the hour...these NOS ST-shaped CV1052 of mine are proving exceptional tubes. Last night I wasn't sure if they'd be able to match the EL3N and EL11, but as usual, I was much too premature in my judgment! Now they have nearly 20 hours on them, they are already nearly matching my (almost impossible to find) mesh-plated EL3NG and EL11...and at this rate will probably easily equal them...totally unexpected lol !



Hi again H1, quite interesting find (by CF I understand) of these CV 1052.  After a quick search, the “straight” version, of high quality british tubes can be found quite cheap, but the ST ones are much rarer.  And I (as you) do prefer the ST version of tubes.  There are no adaptors available, so keep on giving your impressions.  Of course, a comparison between straight and ST versions is eagerly expected (lol)  !

Speaking of ST tubes,  I become aware of Mordy’s preferences for the 6F8G as a top driver in the Euforia.  Found that the tube is highly regarded in some  amps,  and not so in others. As you know, the same tube will sound very different depending on the amp.  And the Euforia is particularly demanding.  The TS 6F8G round plates, “holy grail” has become too expensive, but other similar tubes like vintage NOS Raytheons, National Union or RCA VT-99, are affordable. I would go for an offer of a nice pair of NOS black glass, mil spec RCA VT-99 from 42’ vintage, what do you think Mordy ?


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi again H1, quite interesting find (by CF I understand) of these CV 1052.  After a quick search, the “straight” version, of high quality british tubes can be found quite cheap, but the ST ones are much rarer.  And I (as you) do prefer the ST version of tubes.  There are no adaptors available, so keep on giving your impressions.  Of course, a comparison between straight and ST versions is eagerly expected (lol)  !



Indeed J..@connieflyer has the straight-sided tubes as well as the ST-type - both termed 'CV1052' - but I just love the 'shaped' tubes every time, as you have gathered!, so I've left it to him to be guinea pig with the straights...(and I'll be sick as a parrot if they perform to the same level lol!! ). And it will be interesting to see if my Pinnacle branded EL32s sound the same as my military CV1052...one Pinnacle having a brown base (which I also love in a British tube!), and both looking just as impressive...

Anyway, as you asked - along with @DecentLevi  - I will give an update on how these tubes are sounding, with another 10+ hours on them...even though it's still early days for them!

Well, first of all I must admit they exceed all my expectations - was hoping for 'good', but they go way beyond that..._in my system!_...especially with EL12 Spezials as powers...(and DL, yes...I suspect the extra power of the 12s is preferable in that role!).

Last night it appeared I might have to get used to (quite a lot!) heavier bass and mids than I'm used to, with slightly less treble...but this morning they've toned down some (more to my taste, thankfully, and which often happens anyway). However, there is still a bit more in these areas than the EL11, which is no bad thing lol! Bass detail is still very good, with excellent control and 'tightness'.

Treble is _very slightly_ down, but again has its own benefits - tracks that before could occasionally sound a little harsh at high listening levels are now more 'friendly', but without loss of detail and extension. This was borne out especially with Genesis's 'Duke' album, which has _loads_ of treble, and can easily become tiring on the ears at higher levels! This also means that amp volume can be turned up, without the ears objecting so much...a good bonus IMHO. 

Overall balance is very good, with the slightly more bass and mids reminiscent of the mighty ECC31 and FDD20, but without the high heat that goes with the former lol! It doesn't have the same treble 'sparkle' of the C3g, but as I said, is much better for longer term listening.

Again, like the EL11, the sound is beautifully clean and clear...a little less 'coloured' than the EL3N, and at least on a par with my mesh-plate EL3N*G *and Valvo EL11. In fact, at this rate, I suspect I will prefer these even to my rare mesh-plates - the Valvos giving the very slightest hum (in my system) that is unnoticeable while music is playing.

Another reason for this probable preference is that not only will they take even less power than the EL3N/EL11, but also something I only really noticed with Cassandra Wilson's 'Another Country' (HD Tracks 2013 sampler) - ie. _slightly_ less echo due to the cross-feed implemented in our amps. This results in a tad less 'air', and a little more focus...you can't, by definition, have both lol!! Now that I've got used to the slight difference in sound this gives, I think I prefer a little less 'echo'! But this will also depend on the rest of one's gear/cables etc., of course...

Yet another aspect of the lower power draw/output of these tubes is that there's far less spike/'crack' when  switching off the amp with the headphones still attached, which is another bonus. But later models than mine should have reduced spike anyway, and this doesn't really affect me as I always power everything down just from the soft on-and-off balanced mains & filter supply, plus mains regenerator (plenty of protection there also lol!!).

So all in all - as you may have gathered by now! - I am mightily impressed with this CV1052/EL32/VT25...the ST-shaped tube anyway...so far. I just hope I can get cf's adapters finished soon......

But again I must stress..._in my system, and to my ears/preferences!..._HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Indeed J..@connieflyer has the straight-sided tubes as well as the ST-type - both termed 'CV1052' - but I just love the 'shaped' tubes every time, as you have gathered!, so I've left it to him to be guinea pig with the straights...(and I'll be sick as a parrot if they perform to the same level lol!! ). And it will be interesting to see if my Pinnacle branded EL32s sound the same as my military CV1052...one Pinnacle having a brown base (which I also love in a British tube!), and both looking just as impressive...
> 
> Anyway, as you asked - along with @DecentLevi  - I will give an update on how these tubes are sounding, with another 10+ hours on them...even though it's still early days for them!
> 
> ...


Hi h1,

Sounds like an impressive tube, excellent description as always!, just when it might seem there are no more new gems to be found, it sounds like you might have discovered another winner, hope the burning in continues to go well!.


----------



## connieflyer

Glad to hear how well these cv1052 tubes are sounding.  Nice to see that there are still discoveries to be made that enhance our amps even now.  I thought I would give initial impressions of straight vs shoulder type tubes.  These appear to be equally clean and free from defects in manufacture and storage. Well, that's about it! Seriously, because of the smaller size of the the tubes,  compared with the likes of the 6N7 and El11 , the shoulder type is slightly less attractive for me.  Still prefer it, but the proof is in the pudding as they say. It will be interesting to see how much, if any  difference can be discerned between the two tube types and their performance.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1,
> 
> Sounds like an impressive tube, excellent description as always!, just when it might seem there are no more new gems to be found, it sounds like you might have discovered another winner, hope the burning in continues to go well!.



Thanks Scutey...I really do believe this is yet another (unorthodox!) tube that shines in our amps lol!!  Will keep y'all informed as to progress...



connieflyer said:


> Glad to hear how well these cv1052 tubes are sounding.  Nice to see that there are still discoveries to be made that enhance our amps even now.  I thought I would give initial impressions of straight vs shoulder type tubes.  These appear to be equally clean and free from defects in manufacture and storage. Well, that's about it! Seriously, because of the smaller size of the the tubes,  compared with the likes of the 6N7 and El11 , the shoulder type is slightly less attractive for me.  Still prefer it, but the proof is in the pudding as they say. It will be interesting to see how much, if any  difference can be discerned between the two tube types and their performance.



Hi cf...well, at least you've _shown_ the difference between the 2 CV1052! Mind you, your EL32 does look a tiny bit different to mine...wonder if different factories also differ in sound!!! Really look forward to when you can compare straight-sided with ST type...

As to their appearance, hopefully a couple of photos (in low light, so no comparison with @SnapperMusicFan 's lovely pic please!! ) might put your mind at rest. To me, at least, they look fantastic...in front of the EL12 Spezials!

  

But more importantly...they _sound _tremendous!!


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Hi again H1, quite interesting find (by CF I understand) of these CV 1052.  After a quick search, the “straight” version, of high quality british tubes can be found quite cheap, but the ST ones are much rarer.  And I (as you) do prefer the ST version of tubes.  There are no adaptors available, so keep on giving your impressions.  Of course, a comparison between straight and ST versions is eagerly expected (lol)  !
> 
> Speaking of ST tubes,  I become aware of Mordy’s preferences for the 6F8G as a top driver in the Euforia.  Found that the tube is highly regarded in some  amps,  and not so in others. As you know, the same tube will sound very different depending on the amp.  And the Euforia is particularly demanding.  The TS 6F8G round plates, “holy grail” has become too expensive, but other similar tubes like vintage NOS Raytheons, National Union or RCA VT-99, are affordable. I would go for an offer of a nice pair of NOS black glass, mil spec RCA VT-99 from 42’ vintage, what do you think Mordy ?


Hi Johnnysound,
The main reason I became interested in the 6F8G tube is that the Tung Sol variant is supposed to sound the same as the TS 6SN7 black round plate tube which is very highly regarded and unfortunately very expensive. (There is a 12V version, the 12SN7GT BRP as well, but those are also high priced.)
The TS 6F8G comes as flat plate and round plate, but according to UT they sound the same. I found a lot of four 6F8G tubes with one Tung Sol, one Raytheon, one Philco (Sylvania) and an unknown brand Radiocoin. By looking at the pictures it seemed to me that the Radiocoin could be a rebranded TS, and when I received the tubes I confirmed that it was indeed a Tung Sol tube. Both are flat plate tubes.
The sound is unique and the best word I can think of to describe it is "creamy." Wide soundstage, very good detail, even FR and that smooth creamy presentation....
The Raytheon and Philco sound good as well. As always you need to find the right power tubes to pair them with. At the time of pairing I used the Cetron 6336B but was subsequently advised that they could harm my amp (even with external power and all cooling and ventilation precautions) so I stopped using them.
My advice on getting these tubes is to try to find an inexpensive pair (not necessarily TS) and try them out. You also need special adapters which adds to the expense.
There is another tube that is very similar but with higher gain (similar to 6SN7 vs 6SL7) - the 6C8G. Not 100% sure if it is compatible with the Elise/Euforia, but not that expensive. Here is an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-6F8G-...109220&hash=item4b435fdbef:g:oRwAAOSw-0xYaUv2
I haven't tried it yet but may be a good possibility....
ATM trying another driver tube that also was a predecessor to the 6SN7 - the 6N7. It is a metal tube (I am told that there is a glass envelope inside). Since it does not have any visual appeal it is very inexpensive and you can get a WW2 NOS pair for $10 or less. Testing a Ken-Rad 1944 pair now.
These tubes need special adapters as well - ECC31 to 6SN7.
If you want the TS 6F8G be patient and keep on looking for rebranded ones such as ART and Radiocoin - I paid $84 for the four tubes including shipping.
Good luck!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, a little tip - here's a website I found that's supposed to search all eBay sites in one, so you don't have to go through a dozen individual eBay sites to find your rare tubes. I found some good ST CV1052 tubez from here:
https://www.geo-ship.com/

Also, any opinions on the 12SG7? (link here)


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys, a little tip - here's a website I found that's supposed to search all eBay sites in one, so you don't have to go through a dozen individual eBay sites to find your rare tubes. I found some good ST CV1052 tubez from here:
> https://www.geo-ship.com/
> 
> Also, any opinions on the 12SG7? (link here)


Hi DL,
The 12SG7 is a pentode - not suitable for the FA amp unless you have a special adapter made + external power.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_12sg7.html


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


>


The CV1052 is a 1969 Blackburn Mullard. Any codes on the EL32?


----------



## connieflyer

One has 1005 BOA and the other is unmarked.  This is the Phillips MiniwattEL32.


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> One has 1005 BOA and the other is unmarked.  This is the Phillips MiniwattEL32.


Thanks. That's Mullard as well then, made before the 1955 switch to the Philips-style code.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the information.  Wondered if that was the case. As always, when in doubt, ask the expert!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey guys, for anyone on the sidelines about the VT52 / CV1052 tubes due to no adapter availability - I'm in the process of contacting a few adapter vendors to ask if they can make one out of silver. So not to fret, hang on and I'll post if we get any offers. OTOH if someone already has something like this in the pipeline, let me know so I can cancel this.

Actually I would surmise an adapter made purely out of silver including the pins would be extravagantly costly and not to mention may be too pliable so maybe losing its' shape with insertion. So perhaps silver plated copper / brass would at least be a touch better than 'standard' adapters? (in addition to silver wiring everywhere else).


----------



## DecentLevi

I got this response from Xuling, who seems to actually have silver material. But I don't know how to answer, so will one of you, or possibly @Oskari or @2359glenn be able to post an answer to this?

_Hi,thank your old friend, I can make it. But please tell me which using triode pin 1/2/3 or pin 4/5/6? the Elise amp last EL3N adatper octal triode pins are parallel connect. Because EL32 tube is pentode tube, if you know this i must redesign new board agaiin.
Thanks!_
_


 
_
Above is the diagram she provided, and this is the tube specs sheet I found for it:
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0303.htm


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> I got this response from Xuling, who seems to actually have silver material. But I don't know how to answer, so will one of you, or possibly @Oskari or @2359glenn be able to post an answer to this?
> You may want to ask h1 since he already made this tube work in the Euforia.
> _Hi,thank your old friend, I can make it. But please tell me which using triode pin 1/2/3 or pin 4/5/6? the Elise amp last EL3N adatper octal triode pins are parallel connect. Because EL32 tube is pentode tube, if you know this i must redesign new board agaiin.
> Thanks!
> ...


----------



## DecentLevi

OK, I'll wait for input from @hypnos1 unless we get another answer


----------



## 2359glenn

This diagram she sent you is wrong.
It shows the control grid connected to pin 9 when it actually is connected to the top cap


----------



## 2359glenn

I can show the wright hookup from work got to get ready to go to work now.


----------



## Oskari

2359glenn said:


> This diagram she sent you is wrong.
> It shows the control grid connected to pin 9 when it actually is connected to the top cap


They used #9 for the top cap.


----------



## 2359glenn (May 14, 2018)

OK

          EL32         to                     6SN7

      top cap         to                 pin 1
      pin 2             to                 pin 8
   pin 3&4 tie together    to     pin 2
      pin 7             to                 pin 7
      pin 8             to                 pin 3

This should work in a FA amp
Glenn


----------



## hypnos1

2359glenn said:


> OK
> 
> EL32         to                     6SN7
> 
> ...



Many thanks for your input Glenn...you are, of course, right with your pin info.

But since the control grids, cathodes and anodes of both triodes are connected in parallel in our amps, the EL32 top cap (control grid) can also be connected to 6SN7 pin #4 instead, which I myself do. As the feed for the power tubes is taken from the driver's _cathode_, I also connect EL32 pin 8 (cathode) to either 6SN7 pin #3 for the right-hand tube, or #6 for the left-hand - but either will do (I'm just being picky here...this simply matches exactly where the feed for the powers is taken lol!).

And @DecentLevi , plus those who may be interested, if there aren't too many F-A takers for the EL32 etc. tube, I am happy to make some adapters for folks...using UP-OCC silver and copper wire; nice gold-plated sockets; gold-plated-pin bases (as does Mrs X), and gold-plated-connector top caps...all of which would indeed be pricey otherwise!! Once I manage to get cf's adapters done, the next should be easier/quicker lol! I shall only charge for materials...but any extra contribution towards labour won't be refused!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Having been the recipient of a couple of his adaptations, I can attest to his workmanship.   He adapted two el 11 tubes and two EL 12 Spez tubes,  took the glass tube completely off from the stock socket and replaced and reconfigured new sockets to fit  amp.  Nice, neat and no external adapters needed on these.  Talk about plug and play!


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Many thanks for your input Glenn...you are, of course, right with your pin info.
> 
> But since the control grids, cathodes and anodes of both triodes are connected in parallel in our amps, the EL32 top cap (control grid) can also be connected to 6SN7 pin #4 instead, which I myself do. As the feed for the power tubes is taken from the driver's _cathode_, I also connect EL32 pin 8 (cathode) to either 6SN7 pin #3 for the right-hand tube, or #6 for the left-hand - but either will do (I'm just being picky here...this simply matches exactly where the feed for the powers is taken lol!).
> 
> And @DecentLevi , plus those who may be interested, if there aren't too many F-A takers for the EL32 etc. tube, I am happy to make some adapters for folks...using UP-OCC silver and copper wire; nice gold-plated sockets; gold-plated-pin bases (as does Mrs X), and gold-plated-connector top caps...all of which would indeed be pricey otherwise!! Once I manage to get cf's adapters done, the next should be easier/quicker lol! I shall only charge for materials...but any extra contribution towards labour won't be refused!! ...CHEERS!...CJ



It shouldn't really matter what triode section you hook to as they are in parallel.
I used to make adapters no time now busy building amps and can't compete with the sellers in China.
I refuse to do it for nothing my time is worth something. And some of the adapters from China are cheaper then I can buy the parts to make them fore.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Having been the recipient of a couple of his adaptations, I can attest to his workmanship.   He adapted two el 11 tubes and two EL 12 Spez tubes,  took the glass tube completely off from the stock socket and replaced and reconfigured new sockets to fit  amp.  Nice, neat and no external adapters needed on these.  Talk about plug and play!



Thanks for your kind endorsement cf...these adapters will be the best ever lol ...especially with UP-OCC silver wire inside!!...(and I do firmly believe that their construction/materials used _does_ make a difference to the final sound!! ). Have today worked out the 'system' and potential pitfalls (there are always some to watch out for - this task is NOT 'as simple as it gets'!!! )...so things should be easier from now on. Just need to wait for top caps from Hong Kong now!...



2359glenn said:


> It shouldn't really matter what triode section you hook to as they are in parallel.
> I used to make adapters no time now busy building amps and can't compete with the sellers in China.
> I refuse to do it for nothing my time is worth something. And some of the adapters from China are cheaper then I can buy the parts to make them fore.



I don't blame you one bit Glenn...you certainly must indeed be a busy fellow! All the best to you...

ps. Those 'cheapies' from China are things I personally wouldn't want to go anywhere near lol...but they have helped folks try tubes they otherwise would never be able to......


----------



## aqsw

Many years ago I tried some cheapies on some  tubes ( cannot remember exactly) , but they had the wires you plug on top..

Blew one tube immediately. Bought another tube, waited for it to come and I plugged it in and it blew again.

I'm sticking with MRS X


----------



## DecentLevi (May 14, 2018)

Hi guys, thanks so much for your input. I'll send this info. over to Ms. X and double confirm if she has the higher quality gold/silver plated materials available. I'm sort of leaning towards the 'China solution' so I can still hopefully receive an adapter before I may move again, but hope the quality may be at least near as good as from H1.

Meanwhile I've just discovered astonishing performance from 6x 6BL7 (externally powered) + EL12 - an ultra performer with SERIOUSly proper refinement in spades... _of spades_ that has perhaps given a backseat to hundreds of combos that came before it. Seriously underrated, but unwaveringly positive reception from those who were fortunate enough to try it on both Elise and Euforia. I'll tell ya if the CV1052 is able to sound any better than *THIS*, I may need a 6-pack to calm me down, or to cancel any plans of ever upgrading amps again!!!


----------



## Johnnysound

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> The main reason I became interested in the 6F8G tube is that the Tung Sol variant is supposed to sound the same as the TS 6SN7 black round plate tube which is very highly regarded and unfortunately very expensive. (There is a 12V version, the 12SN7GT BRP as well, but those are also high priced.)
> The TS 6F8G comes as flat plate and round plate, but according to UT they sound the same. I found a lot of four 6F8G tubes with one Tung Sol, one Raytheon, one Philco (Sylvania) and an unknown brand Radiocoin. By looking at the pictures it seemed to me that the Radiocoin could be a rebranded TS, and when I received the tubes I confirmed that it was indeed a Tung Sol tube. Both are flat plate tubes.
> The sound is unique and the best word I can think of to describe it is "creamy." Wide soundstage, very good detail, even FR and that smooth creamy presentation....
> ...



Hi Mordy, many thanks for your advice on the 6F8G.   I also became interested in the TS variant of this tube because it is supossed to sound very similar to the famous TS 6SN7 BGRP, but  it is quite expensive.    However, other brands are (relatively) inexpensive,  so I´ll try some and let you know...


----------



## DecentLevi (May 14, 2018)

OK so looks like Mrs. X can make the CV1052 / VT52 adapter, but here's what she has to work with: gold plated brass pins and silver plated copper wires. I'm wondering if this would sound about as good as it gets, as long as it's wired this way throughout including internally - or if it would be still recommended for possible audible difference if going H1's route with UP-OCC silver and copper wires?

PS - Look at how UT agrees spot-on with my take on the sextet of 6BL7-class, even on a different amp


----------



## hypnos1 (May 15, 2018)

Hi @DecentLevi . Sounds like Mrs X would make a very decent adapter, even if not _quite_ the same as mine lol! . And probably very quickly too!!  So she could indeed prove very helpful for those who may wish to give this tube a try, and who don't want to wait for mine.

I notice that she (they) have sold *133* adapters for EL3N and *104* for EL11/12...WOW!...never realised so many have given these tubes a try. There would appear to be many who don't subscribe to our threads lol!! But whatever, it's nice to know there are plenty who are prepared to experiment, and have listened to our comments here at head-fi!!

ps. As an aside for those interested, I notice from my own tubes, and many listed for sale, that the military ST shape CV1052 seem to be of a slightly better build quality than the 'commercial' EL32...presumably the often case of military choosing the best of a production run, or actually specifying certain criteria to the factory?

Whatever, just thought I'd mention it......CHEERS!...

pps. As an update, further burn-in is confirming that the CV1052 (ST shape, at least!) delivers more in the bass and mids area than the EL11...which I'm still getting accustomed to lol! Fortunately, the tremendous spatiality and 'air' of my mesh-plate tubes is also developing nicely...was beginning to have some very slight doubts! ...BFN..CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (May 15, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @DecentLevi . Sounds like Mrs X would make a very decent adapter, even if not _quite_ the same as mine lol! . And probably very quickly too!!  So she could indeed prove very helpful for those who may wish to give this tube a try, and who don't want to wait for mine.
> 
> I notice that she (they) have sold *133* adapters for EL3N and *104* for EL11/12...WOW!...never realised so many have given these tubes a try. There would appear to be many who don't subscribe to our threads lol!! But whatever, it's nice to know there are plenty who are prepared to experiment, and have listened to our comments here at head-fi!!
> 
> ...



Wow, and that must also cover the unexplained gaps in Euforia serial numbers. We must all must have a large following of secret admirers... maybe some of us are a celebrity in some countries


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @DecentLevi . Sounds like Mrs X would make a very decent adapter, even if not _quite_ the same as mine lol! . And probably very quickly too!!  So she could indeed prove very helpful for those who may wish to give this tube a try, and who don't want to wait for mine.
> 
> I notice that she (they) have sold *133* adapters for EL3N and *104* for EL11/12...WOW!...never realised so many have given these tubes a try. There would appear to be many who don't subscribe to our threads lol!! But whatever, it's nice to know there are plenty who are prepared to experiment, and have listened to our comments here at head-fi!!
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
Let's try a little math. If you want to use the El11/12 adapters you may want to purchase four of them since they can be used in all four positions simultaneusly
in the Elise/Euforia amps. So if everybody bought four that would be say 25 people.
The same with EL3N tubes - 2, 4 or 6 tubes. I would guess that 100 sales equates 25-40 people.
BTW, Mrs Xu Ling has sold 25 EL12 Spez adapters. (An EL12 Spez to KT88 adapter was just introduced)
So a fairly small group of diehards....


----------



## hypnos1 (May 16, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Let's try a little math. If you want to use the El11/12 adapters you may want to purchase four of them since they can be used in all four positions simultaneusly
> in the Elise/Euforia amps. So if everybody bought four that would be say 25 people.
> The same with EL3N tubes - 2, 4 or 6 tubes. I would guess that 100 sales equates 25-40 people.
> ...



Hi mordy...very possibly...but I doubt there are_ that _many folks purchasing 4 or more (of the same!) adapters! We need a census lol!


----------



## myphone

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...very possibly...but I doubt there are_ that _many folks purchasing 4 or more adapters! We need a census lol!



Bought two EL12 spez adapters last month, and two EL11 adapters last week.

EL11s (Five) and EL11 to 6SN7 adapters (Two) are somewhere in transit.


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> Bought two EL12 spez adapters last month, and two EL11 adapters last week.
> 
> EL11s (Five) and EL11 to 6SN7 adapters (Two) are somewhere in transit.



Well done myphone...you might well need to be looking at CV1052/EL32 tubes and adapters also very soon lol!! ...it never ends...or does it?!! ...(roll on F-A's new 2A3 flagship in the months to come! But will need to start saving now...and only hope the 6SN7 driver circuit is as accommodating of the EL tubes as Euforia/Elise!!. Not so many 2A3s to choose from - thankfully - but good NOS ones aren't too cheap either!).


----------



## connieflyer (May 16, 2018)

Morning all, wait for new FA amp will give us a chance to set aside funds to make jump to 2A3 amp.  Those 2A3 tubes are expensive and chances for rolling will be limited, but if the amp is as good as they say, should not be a problem.  Will have to keep my eyes open for good priced tubes.  No word yet on release date yet I would assume.  About time they started releasing data and pictured to start the early adopters  getting excited.  Will be keeping Euforia  either way.  To good an amp to  set aside. It is so versatile with different tube combos, to change the voicing and depth of music. And besides, I doubt you are done exploring  other tube possibilities .  Good work by you and a few others to enhance our listening pleasure.  I salute your efforts on our behalf, as I am sure Phil would if he was still with us. Thanks H


----------



## DecentLevi (May 16, 2018)

Hi folks, I copied these instructions to Ms. X already for the EL32 / CV1052 / VT52 to 6SN7 adapter:

top cap to pin 1
pin 2 to pin 8
pin 3&4 tie together to pin 2
pin 7 to pin 7
pin 8 to pin 3

She said she's been in the adapter business for 7 years, but still I have a small concern - what if she misinterprets these directions? EG, "pin 2 to pin 8" could be interpreted either way, depending on if she's working from the 6SN7 side or from the EL32 side. Of course we've never had one of her adapters wired backwards yet, but better safe than sorry. If anyone thinks there's any cause for concern, maybe we can also have a diagram to clarify things? She's working on the adapters that will be available for any of us - not exactly the same standards as H1's version, but on a higher tier than her usual.

Also is the VT52 meant to be solely a driver tube, or would it also be more/less compatible as a power tube... or at least using an externally heated board like mine to be on the safer side?


----------



## UntilThen

DL, I've dealt with mrsxuling before on the EL3N to 6SN7 adapter. The pin configurations you gave her, she will follow to the letter. She will understand or her technicians.

If she's in doubt, she will be asking questions.

Good luck.

As an aside, I still have four EL11/ EL12 to 6SN7 adapters that I won't be needing anymore. PM me if you want those. We can work out a special deal. Also have a pair of Telefunken EL12 and a pair of EL12n tube to let go.


----------



## DecentLevi

The new 'EL32' adapater's out now, and seemingly even for cheaper than the materials:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-converter-adapter-For-Elise-amp/202313624920

She said someone from the UK already ordered 4 yesterday.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> The new 'EL32' adapater's out now, and seemingly even for cheaper than the materials:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-converter-adapter-For-Elise-amp/202313624920
> 
> 
> ...



Hi DL,
Wow - six sold already!


----------



## Scutey

Might be a bit of a risk but I've managed to find two ST shaped EL32 from an eBay seller in Italy, always a bit of a risk, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!.



mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Let's try a little math. If you want to use the El11/12 adapters you may want to purchase four of them since they can be used in all four positions simultaneusly
> in the Elise/Euforia amps. So if everybody bought four that would be say 25 people.
> The same with EL3N tubes - 2, 4 or 6 tubes. I would guess that 100 sales equates 25-40 people.
> ...



Quite a few mordy, I can account for 8 adapters!, 4 EL3N and 4 EL11/12.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> The new 'EL32' adapater's out now, and seemingly even for cheaper than the materials:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-converter-adapter-For-Elise-amp/202313624920
> 
> She said someone from the UK already ordered 4 yesterday.



That is incredibly fast DL...well done to you too lol! They do indeed look well-made...and that price is ridiculous - it can't stay that low for very long, methinks! ...(no wonder Glenn doesn't even bother to make adapters anymore!! ).

As for myself, am still waiting for top caps from Hong Kong I'm afraid...and thereby hangs a tale. In short...while waiting, I tried some available here in the UK. Unfortunately, they didn't match the ebay photo, and were in fact Chinese ones that could also be bought from China at a fraction of the cost. Needless to say, they went straight back lol!! But as I'd promised @connieflyer some adapters a while ago, I managed to scrounge a couple of caps from a friend of mine, and save my honour!! ...(sorry I couldn't get more DL...). 

Anyway, I've actually now managed to finish my 1st pair of adapters, and am very pleased with the result...so hopefully cf will soon (USPS & US Customs permitting!) be able to answer the ST-shape EL32 vs the (cheap!) straight-sided CV1052 question.

And so a few photos to show progress :

   

ps. I've found these top quality sockets to be extremely good! And the blue and red UP-OCC silver and copper wires easy to work with (softer even than 'ordinary' 99.99% pure silver).


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Might be a bit of a risk but I've managed to find two ST shaped EL32 from an eBay seller in Italy, always a bit of a risk, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!



Hi Scutey...the only risk would be shipment from Italy, I should imagine lol! ...WELL DONE!...

With another few 8 hour stretches on my ST-shape CV1052, I can confirm that they are indeed a very special tube...easily the equal of the EL3N and EL11. In fact I personally would say they are even _better_ lol!! . The soundstage has opened nicely; bass and mids are still slightly stronger, but more controlled now; spatial 'air' has increased, and treble is wonderfully smooth and sweet, but with still just the right amount of 'bite'...(for me, anyway!). They complement the EL12 Spezial powers to perfection, and so look forward to how they partner with your own power tubes. There is no background noise whatsoever from these two...even when the vol knob is turned to max with no music playing. They are both, in fact, the quietest tubes I've ever had bar none! And the amp doesn't get even warm...a bonus for the electronics!! In short, I think this tube is a real winner......

ps. If you're prepared to wait a wee while, I'm more than happy to make some adapters for you...but by all means get some from Mrs X if you prefer lol! Whatever, I don't think you'll be at all disappointed with this tube...looking forward to your impressions...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Surprising how fast mrs. X can get product out when she wants to.  I like mine better, be willing to bet they are of superior quality as well.  Thanks H Paypal out now


----------



## connieflyer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2pcs-T...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649    Now this is what I call a beautiful tube


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Scutey...the only risk would be shipment from Italy, I should imagine lol! ...WELL DONE!...
> 
> With another few 8 hour stretches on my ST-shape CV1052, I can confirm that they are indeed a very special tube...easily the equal of the EL3N and EL11. In fact I personally would say they are even _better_ lol!! . The soundstage has opened nicely; bass and mids are still slightly stronger, but more controlled now; spatial 'air' has increased, and treble is wonderfully smooth and sweet, but with still just the right amount of 'bite'...(for me, anyway!). They complement the EL12 Spezial powers to perfection, and so look forward to how they partner with your own power tubes. There is no background noise whatsoever from these two...even when the vol knob is turned to max with no music playing. They are both, in fact, the quietest tubes I've ever had bar none! And the amp doesn't get even warm...a bonus for the electronics!! In short, I think this tube is a real winner......
> 
> ps. If you're prepared to wait a wee while, I'm more than happy to make some adapters for you...but by all means get some from Mrs X if you prefer lol! Whatever, I don't think you'll be at all disappointed with this tube...looking forward to your impressions...CJ


Hi h1, thanks, I just hope they're "right" ! lol, here is a pic.

You're impressions of the CV1052 make them sound very impressive, the EL3N is the benchmark by which I judge every other driver so the idea of a tube that can match, or even better it is very exciting.

Also thank you for your offer of making adapters, I will be very happy to accept your very kind offer, and, of course, pay for parts, time, etc. I am quite prepared to wait as my experience of the Italian postal service is that it is rather leisurely!.

Cheers! h1, you are a gent!.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Surprising how fast mrs. X can get product out when she wants to.  I like mine better, be willing to bet they are of superior quality as well.  Thanks H Paypal out now



Hope you like 'em cf...and sorry you've had to wait a fair while... (but at least you were lucky...am still a bit annoyed at my local supplier basically making me rely on the Far East. Then again, everything else has to come from there - no-one here seems to make such things any more lol! )...


----------



## hypnos1 (May 17, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, thanks, I just hope they're "right" ! lol, here is a pic.
> 
> You're impressions of the CV1052 make them sound very impressive, the EL3N is the benchmark by which I judge every other driver so the idea of a tube that can match, or even better it is very exciting.
> 
> ...



Those sure do look nice tubes Scutey...and are indeed the real thing lol!

Am only too happy to make some adapters for you...hopefully there won't be too much of a difference in timing - I too have had a good wait for stuff from Italy!! 

And hope that you too find the EL32 to surpass the EL3N...despite different setups...(my Beyer T1s love them almost as much as I do!!).

ps. Their adapter sockets are also much better than those in the 'bathtub' EL3N adapter, which have occasionally proved troublesome due to their contact design...the octal base being much more user-friendly!


----------



## Scutey

Thanks for the confirmation!, they certainly look ok.

Also thanks again for the adapters, it really is appreciated!, I can imagine they will be far more aesthetically pleasing than the EL3N adapters!.


hypnos1 said:


> Those sure do look nice tubes Scutey...and are indeed the real thing lol!
> 
> Am only too happy to make some adapters for you...hopefully there won't be too much of a difference in timing - I too have had a good wait for stuff from Italy!!
> 
> ...




Going on your impressions it sounds like the sort of sound I love, I use Beyer DT 1990's, they love EL tubes, which, I guess will have a similar sound to your T1's so it sounds very promising!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey is there something wrong with my tubes??? I hear some sort of loud HUMMMMM every time I listen to this video



SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME!!!


----------



## UntilThen

Nothing is wrong. It's just humming perfectly.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2pcs-Tung-sol-VT-99-6F8G-tube-plug-adapter-to-instead-6SN7-CV181/261381805808?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649    Now this is what I call a beautiful tube


Hi CF,
Agree that this a beautiful tube, and it is beautiful sounding too - expansive sound stage with a delicious creamy sound:




These are Tung Sol 6F8G tubes but with flat plates (not round plates) - they are supposed to sound very similar to the RBP. (GEC 6080 power tubes)
The adapters seem to be very high quality and came from a seller in Poland; the price was competitive with the Chinese adapters as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

The EL3N were always too 'soft', dark and saturated for me with almost all combos, yet had excellent realism and soundstage. Here's to hoping the EL32 will retain the soundstage of the EL3N but much more slam to the dynamics. I thought H1 said they compare to his rare mesh plates...


----------



## hypnos1 (May 18, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Thanks for the confirmation!, they certainly look ok.
> 
> Also thanks again for the adapters, it really is appreciated!, I can imagine they will be far more aesthetically pleasing than the EL3N adapters!.
> 
> ...



Yeah Scutey...given the right feed, Beyers can really shine. And now I've made some replacement cable using UP-OCC silver and copper wires, my T1s (gen 1) are sounding absolutely fabulous and are VERY under-rated lol! 

As (yet another!) update, and something that @DecentLevi had asked about, I've just had another minor shock : based also upon @2359glenn 's statement that he would try using the EL32 as both driver _and_ power, and before shipping @connieflyer 's adapters, I thought I'd just give the 4 a try myself...and *no need to spend out on EL12 Spezials!!*...I couldn't believe how good they sound - and that's before the adapters and other 2 tubes have properly burned in. And for not too many bucks...incredible...way beyond what I expected. These tubes just continue to amaze me...in our amps, and my setup at least.

And yes, IMHO also they look FAR better than EL3Ns in their 'bathtub' adapters lol!! 

So yet another photo shoot for folks interested :



This foursome also _looks_ as good as it sounds IMHO....mmmmm....CJ

ps. And all four only take 0.8 amps heater power in total...amazing!!!


----------



## 2359glenn

Hi H1

So these EL32s worked well as output tubes in your amp?
I have to get some and try them with output transformers and run them properly. Also I need to get some time to do this.
Very  curious about this tube. And another + is that I can use the same output transformer as the EL3N. I don't have to
buy expensive transformers just to experiment how this tube sounds.


----------



## hypnos1 (May 18, 2018)

2359glenn said:


> Hi H1
> 
> So these EL32s worked well as output tubes in your amp?
> I have to get some and try them with output transformers and run them properly. Also I need to get some time to do this.
> ...



Hi Glenn.

All  can say is that in F-A's circuits, these tubes sound _better_ IMHO than the 6SN7/6AS7G they're actually configured for lol...go figure!! 

It's a shame the EL32/CV1052 ST-shape isn't so freely available as the EL3N, but there are obviously good stocks of the later straight-sided CV1052, which I haven't personally tried, but connieflyer will, as soon as he gets my adapters.

Time?...not enough of that precious commodity I'm afraid!...(ps. if you haven't seen my warning yet - if you haven't had Chicken Pox as a youngster...get vaccinated straight away! What it did to me - with stroke-like complications - would halt you in your tracks for months...with dire results for your good work lol!! ).

Whatever, I hope you do indeed manage to give this tube a try...but they're no longer available (at the moment!) at 3 for £8!!!...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

pps. The current price of adapters from China is ludicrous...I can hardly even get good _sockets_ to use for that money!!


----------



## connieflyer

So H, I see that these tubes work well together, and I also see why I can not find the dark shoulder tubes!  Picked up two pair of the straight tube,  https://www.ebay.com/itm/VT52-VT-52...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649  still cheap and the black tube looks good also.  Bought a pair of adapters from Mrs X so I can try all four tubes together, and compare her work to yours! Wish I would have known about using power and driver EL32 but now I can be the guinea pig to see if her adapters work well.  While not the shoulder type, they look really nice.  If they sound close to the shoulder type, I will sell the other four tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> So H, I see that these tubes work well together, and I also see why I can not find the dark shoulder tubes!  Picked up two pair of the straight tube,  https://www.ebay.com/itm/VT52-VT-52-EL32-NOS-Marconi-Canada-Valve-Tubes/111889362590?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649  still cheap and the black tube looks good also.  Bought a pair of adapters from Mrs X so I can try all four tubes together, and compare her work to yours! Wish I would have known about using power and driver EL32 but now I can be the guinea pig to see if her adapters work well.  While not the shoulder type, they look really nice.  If they sound close to the shoulder type, I will sell the other four tubes.



Well done cf...it does indeed look like 4x EL32/CV1052 (ie 2x drivers and 2x powers!) work extremely well...our amps could most certainly have been made _just_ for them lol!!...look forward to your impressions of the 2 different-shaped tubes...not to mention adapters!!!


----------



## hypnos1 (May 18, 2018)

OK guys, so this might well be about my last (?!!) few words on the EL32/CV1052/VT52...for a while at least...

With several more sessions of 8 to 10 hours on my ST CV1052, I am now more convinced than ever that my early _slight_ concerns re. the extra bass and mids were completely unwarranted - ie. that they might just possibly reduce the spatial, airy and detailed soundstage that I've come to love about the EL tubes in general.

This was finally confirmed by one of the toughest tests I know for assessing dynamic range handling; balance throughout the entire frequency range; control of difficult/massed instrumentation and voice; speed, and overall 'excitement'/immersion...ie. the film music soundtrack from 'Gladiator'.

These tubes, driving EL12 Spezial powers (but probably also more EL32s, as previously mentioned - but haven't yet been able to give full testing), can handle all these areas with total aplomb and efficiency...to a degree I never anticipated. And to do so at such a reasonable price - although at present you have to search for these particular examples! - is doubly amazing. They are - in my setup - _at least_ the equal of my extremely rare mesh-plate EL3NG & EL11, which already outperformed IMHO both the EL3N and standard EL11...no mean feat lol! And if they do indeed also perform equally well - as I suspect - in the power role, then they will certainly be a tube to look at VERY seriously...I can say no more...I am totally gobsmacked by them!

But I wish you joy, whatever you find 'floats your boat'!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Yeah Scutey...given the right feed, Beyers can really shine. And now I've made some replacement cable using UP-OCC silver and copper wires, my T1s (gen 1) are sounding absolutely fabulous and are VERY under-rated lol!
> 
> As (yet another!) update, and something that @DecentLevi had asked about, I've just had another minor shock : based also upon @2359glenn 's statement that he would try using the EL32 as both driver _and_ power, and before shipping @connieflyer 's adapters, I thought I'd just give the 4 a try myself...and *no need to spend out on EL12 Spezials!!*...I couldn't believe how good they sound - and that's before the adapters and other 2 tubes have properly burned in. And for not too many bucks...incredible...way beyond what I expected. These tubes just continue to amaze me...in our amps, and my setup at least.
> 
> ...


That's certainly a rather handsome quad you have there h1!.

This is great to hear of your success with x4 EL32, especially as I've also bought a pair of the straight bottle CV1052 as well, this also gives me a good reason to follow @connieflyer's lead in ordering* one pair* only! of mrs X's adapters so as to try both a quad and also find out if there are any sonic differences between straight and ST shapes.

ps 14 EL32 adapters sold already!.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> That's certainly a rather handsome quad you have there h1!.
> 
> This is great to hear of your success with x4 EL32, especially as I've also bought a pair of the straight bottle CV1052 as well, this also gives me a good reason to follow @connieflyer's lead in ordering* one pair* only! of mrs X's adapters so as to try both a quad and also find out if there are any sonic differences between straight and ST shapes.
> 
> ps 14 EL32 adapters sold already!.



Well done to you too, Scutey...looking forward to your impressions also lol!

14 adapters already?...that should keep Mrs X happy too!! ...BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

Actually Scutey, I like those straight-sided tubes with the black glass so well I bought four of them so now I have six of the straight side and two of the shoulder type. I think we're going to like these quite well course I haven't found that to be true yet because I don't have the adapters but they are coming and I will know soon


----------



## 2359glenn

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Glenn.
> 
> All  can say is that in F-A's circuits, these tubes sound _better_ IMHO than the 6SN7/6AS7G they're actually configured for lol...go figure!!
> 
> ...



Funny you brought up chicken pox Just was on the news that it is going around in the schools. I had it when I was a child so I guess I cant get it hopefully.

Adapters before I started making amps I used to make adapters hundreds of them. Not any more They are cheaper from China then I can buy the parts for.
No sense it trying to compete with them this is why there is no jobs in the west anymore.


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Actually Scutey, I like those straight-sided tubes with the black glass so well I bought four of them so now I have six of the straight side and two of the shoulder type. I think we're going to like these quite well course I haven't found that to be true yet because I don't have the adapters but they are coming and I will know soon


It's certainly going to be interesting to know of any differences between the two shapes connieflyer, good luck with your trials of them, will be interested to hear what you think, looking forward to giving em a go myself!


----------



## connieflyer

Corresponding with the owner of the website that I purchased the Marconi vt52's from,  he says he has lots more,  he just opened the case of tubes and has been sealed since manufactured. Nice looking tubes as well.


----------



## Scutey

There's something rather satisfying about getting a tube still pristine after decades for little money!, and they are lookers too!, I bought the somewhat less attractive CV1052.


----------



## DecentLevi (May 19, 2018)

Nice writeup H1, you seem to be in a great state of sonic bliss! Also from trying the Hugo 2 on my Euforia at a recent meet, I distinctly remember what an astonishing difference a top-tier DAC makes such as an R2R one, so certainly some of the credit also goes to your downstream gear as well as your unique cabling. Very interesting indeed CF that your seller found a sealed unused box of those nice looking straight VT52 tubes, and Marconi seems a nice brand. For me, I think I'll have quite enough tubes though with the incoming CV1052 + VT-96 along with so many dozens of other good ones. The shape of your Marconi's are interesting though, it's as if the slight outward extrusion towards the top is _nearly _ST-shape... just maybe giving a similar signature to the shoulder / ST type.

PS- you & I have sure come a long way since the days of the low-tier Ember amp with 1 tube. But I still recommend it as an affordable pre-amp / tube buffer.


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Well done to you too, Scutey...looking forward to your impressions also lol!
> 
> 14 adapters already?...that should keep Mrs X happy too!! ...BFN...



I think this morning are already 18


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I think this morning are already 18


Blimey!, h1 has started something here!


----------



## OctavianH

I could not resist to order 4 pieces. I took also 4 of those "Marconi" VT52 EL32 because I like their look more than the Mullard. What to say, very professional criterion.


----------



## Scutey (May 19, 2018)

OctavianH said:


> I could not resist to order 4 pieces. I took also 4 of those "Marconi" VT52 EL32 because I like their look more than the Mullard. What to say, very professional criterion.


Well done OH, , I think we're going to like these


----------



## OctavianH

If these have 0.2A, I wonder how much time will take until some will try double or triple adapters and so on


----------



## connieflyer (May 19, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Nice writeup H1, you seem to be in a great state of sonic bliss! Also from trying the Hugo 2 on my Euforia at a recent meet, I distinctly remember what an astonishing difference a top-tier DAC makes such as an R2R one, so certainly some of the credit also goes to your downstream gear as well as your unique cabling. Very interesting indeed CF that your seller found a sealed unused box of those nice looking straight VT52 tubes, and Marconi seems a nice brand. For me, I think I'll have quite enough tubes though with the incoming CV1052 + VT-96 along with so many dozens of other good ones. The shape of your Marconi's are interesting though, it's as if the slight outward extrusion towards the top is _nearly _ST-shape... just maybe giving a similar signature to the shoulder / ST type.
> 
> PS- you & I have sure come a long way since the days of the low-tier Ember amp with 1 tube. But I still recommend it as an affordable pre-amp / tube buffer.


It was a  good little amp. But if you remember it was not always a single tuber amp, I pushed the dual Ken-Rad  7193 tubes for awhile.


----------



## connieflyer

OctavianH said:


> I could not resist to order 4 pieces. I took also 4 of those "Marconi" VT52 EL32 because I like their look more than the Mullard. What to say, very professional criterion.



They are nice looking tubes and the seller has many more.  He had a whole  unopened case of these tubes.  His website is https://valvetubes.com/ and  he sells outright not just ebay.  He also buys tubes from individual and military stocks.  Nice fellow, they are based in England


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Corresponding with the owner of the website that I purchased the Marconi vt52's from,  he says he has lots more,  he just opened the case of tubes and has been sealed since manufactured. Nice looking tubes as well.


That's Canadian Marconi and very nice they look. Apparently they were made in Canada to help the UK war effort. (There's also the US-made RCA 1637.) It'll be interesting to hear how they compare with your Mullards.


----------



## Scutey

It's no good, I had to get a quad of the Marconi, should be able to pick them up in about 4 days along with the Mullards, will post picks of any physical differences.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> The EL3N were always too 'soft', dark and saturated for me with almost all combos, yet had excellent realism and soundstage. Here's to hoping the EL32 will retain the soundstage of the EL3N but much more slam to the dynamics. I thought H1 said they compare to his rare mesh plates...



In Elise and Euforia, I agree that the EL3N is warm and lush. Some like it that way but I have a preference for a more transparent and dynamic tone. This is what Glenn's customised EL3N amp sounds like. Dynamic and almost ss tone like. That's the impressions from owners of that amp. It's also using Yamamoto's sockets which hold the EL3N feet really well.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1327#post-14220154


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I could not resist to order 4 pieces. I took also 4 of those "Marconi" VT52 EL32 because I like their look more than the Mullard. What to say, very professional criterion.



Well OH...I reckon you wanted to get that 18 adapter figure even higher lol! . But those Marconis of @connieflyer sure do look very nice tubes...

I must say, however (and I address you too, @Scutey !), that I only hope my ears haven't been deceiving me...or else I'll be emigrating - to Siberia lol!! ...

At this point I'd like to say a couple of words re. the top cap connector. Some folks were put off other tubes that use this top connection because, especially with multiple use, they can sometimes work a bit loose and thereby give variable connection efficiency. If this should happen, I suggest you might well be able to 'work' the cap's contacts back into position so as to make sturdier connection...in the same way as some have had to do with those in the EL3N adapter.

Also...you MUST give these tubes - especially if NOS - at least 5 sessions of 8 to 10 hours' burn-in before they begin to shine. But it sure is interesting to see how they develop over time lol! Mine continue to improve, even after this time...to the point where I can safely say they even surpass my 'special' mesh-plate tubes...unbelievable! I burn in using many different types of tracks - some bass-heavy; some with more mids, and some with loads of treble. I believe this helps 'train' them, and the rest of the system - particularly, good cables - more quickly...ENJOY!...CJ
ps. As I mentioned previously, their sweeter treble means I can also put the volume up a bit more, without harshness setting in... which helps with many aspects of sound reproduction of course!



Oskari said:


> That's Canadian Marconi and very nice they look. Apparently they were made in Canada to help the UK war effort. (There's also the US-made RCA 1637.) It'll be interesting to hear how they compare with your Mullards.



It will indeed be _very_ interesting to see how these Marconis compare to both the (not so pretty!) straight-sided Mullards and the ST-shape ones...


----------



## Oskari

Scutey said:


>


Tbh, I quite like the look of this, too.


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## connieflyer

Yes they are not bad looking either. I have a pair of those and a pair of the s t tubes as well. The s t tubes are used and will be of questionable performance until they get burned in and we find out how used they were. The Marconi ones are brand new never been opened and I am very hopeful that when they burn in they will be close to if not the equal of the St tubes. Now you might ask, what do I attributed this to? Well just because that's what I want it to be!


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Well OH...I reckon you wanted to get that 18 adapter figure even higher lol! . But those Marconis of @connieflyer sure do look very nice tubes...
> 
> I must say, however (and I address you too, @Scutey !), that I only hope my ears haven't been deceiving me...or else I'll be emigrating - to Siberia lol!! ...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info regarding burn in h1, I will follow your advice, and like yourself, from trial and error I have a list of tracks I use of different genres, new, old recordings etc, including some that really sort the wheat from the chaff!, so I'll certainly be kept busy burning those 8 tubes including two makes and different shapes!. 

Oh also, I'm sure your ears aren't deceiving you so I would hold off buying that one way ticket to the freezer!.


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## DecentLevi (May 20, 2018)

Hi folks, something to note for anybody considering going for an 'EL32' (CV1052 / VT52) adapter from Xuling: These are made using a PCB. Though I had specifically requested both in English and translated to Mandarin symbols, this was just the way she does them now. She told me 5 years ago she made with soft silver teflon wires, though some users reported a hum problem and that method was more difficult to manually solder and prone to wiring errors. Though to give her some credit, I have yet to hear about one pair of faulty adapters in the years I've dealt with her; also I showed my 6x externally powered PCB adapter board from her to a local amp designer, who told me it appears the job actually seems good quality and he said something like the conductor is a sort of silver rather than the aluminum I thought it was, and indeed does have a silver color... so definitely, I recommend waiting until @connieflyer compares his adapters for this from Ms. X vs. the premium quality one from our friend H1 for any (potential) audible difference... at least for an adapter comparison, IMO tube burn in should be a nil factor. And definitely I'm also looking forward to a comparison between the Mullard vs. Marconi striaght form EL32's. My hunch is one will sound more lush, in anything (random guess Haha).

Two more interesting things I got after deciphering her broken English recently: for some reason after seeing one of my adapter from her with a ferrite choke / clamp on the anode wire she told me according to most of her customers in China, they're _"winding copper foil from cap-wire-chassis or GND more better"._ For me though I've noticed absolutely no degradation in sound vs. with tin foil, but I suppose the wound copper foil is a different configuration with different results. Though a 10-pack of those go for only a few bucks anyway and were flawless at eliminating hum from EL12 Spez. But FWIW, since the external wire for the EL32's are for the control grid vs. the anode, shielding to reduce hum _may _not be necessary.



Next interesting point was that she has also just made a new adapter for an "EL2" tube (for the 'Elise' ), apparently inspired by my custom request for the EL32 adapter, and saying it's a very old and very good tube. Though I have just checked the EL2 specs to be similar to EL32, I am not endorsing it. She had told me to keep this a secret - OOPS! Though I think was meant more as reverse psychology LOL. Here's the link for this adapter nobody's tried yet:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192544042622?rmvSB=true


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## hypnos1 (May 20, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Thanks for the info regarding burn in h1, I will follow your advice, and like yourself, from trial and error I have a list of tracks I use of different genres, new, old recordings etc, including some that really sort the wheat from the chaff!, so I'll certainly be kept busy burning those 8 tubes including two makes and different shapes!.
> 
> Oh also, I'm sure your ears aren't deceiving you* so I would hold off buying that one way ticket to the freezer!.*



Hi Scutey...sincerely hope so - I _hate_ the *real* cold lol! (but then, I hate it _too_ warm also...)

And yes, like @connieflyer , it looks like you've got a lot of burning in to do...the results should be interesting.

And thanks to @DecentLevi for updating us on Mrs X's adapters. As I feared(?!), she is in fact still using PCB instead of wires...which is understandable from a commercial standpoint - it is indeed more tricky and time-consuming to use wires, not to mention more expensive if using good quality wire. No wonder they're going for relative peanuts lol!! ...As to whether this makes much of a difference sound-wise, only time will tell...CJ

ps. DL's note re. the EL2...it appears this is in fact the same as the EL32, but with that awful side-contact base...I personally wouldn't want to touch it with a bargepole, due to the adapter needed... (different if adapting it oneself lol!). And also seems more expensive than the EL32...why on earth would anyone want to touch it?!


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## hypnos1 (May 22, 2018)

Hi fellow (mad?!) hobbyists.

I know I said my last update on the CV1052/EL32/VT52 tube was about my last, but I must briefly state that - with even further burn-in - this tube has got me more excited than any other I've experimented with since I first asked Feliks-Audio (tongue very much in cheek!) to build an 'Elise', and then the Euforia.

Along with everything I've stated so far, and much to my surprise, I am getting from them even _more _*accuracy* in sound reproduction than I have ever found from _any _tube at _any_ price. They are now surpassing my beloved mesh-plate tubes, which I never thought possible. And I'm really looking forward to seeing if they can indeed match, if not surpass, the wonderful EL12 Spezial in the power role as well...I don't think I need say more...

Obviously, the final sound is being helped a good deal by £1200 worth of mains conditioning; £1800 of Hugo2 DAC; £1800 of Naim UnitiCore, and a few hundred on DIY UP-OCC solid silver and copper cable throughout(!!!), but this has been in place for most of my recent tube testing......and for which I feel most fortunate lol...CHEERS!...

ps. This 'accuracy' was brought home to me big time when I heard clearly on one of Dan Fogelberg's tracks that he was double-voicing his main vocal line, and not just doing obvious backing harmonies. Other voices - male and female - have also been showing tonal nuances I've never heard before...amazing...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> I know I said my last update on the CV1052/EL32/VT52 tube was about my last, but I must briefly state that - with even further burn-in - this tube has got me more excited than any other I've experimented with since I first asked Feliks-Audio (tongue very much in cheek!) to build an 'Elise', and then the Euforia.


My self-imposed moratorium is getting weaker and weaker. Please, @connieflyer, do tell me that these tubes aren't worth a dime!


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> My self-imposed moratorium is getting weaker and weaker. Please, @connieflyer, do tell me that these tubes aren't worth a dime!



What's it worth, O?...but you might just be saved - it's time for my supper drink! 

ps. You know you've been saving yourself for this moment...n'est-ce pas, mon ami?!! ...


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## connieflyer

Well, O, I have not received the adapters yet. I am as anxious as anyone to try these out.  As the Great One has been describing these tubes I hope I can live up to his expectations.  Currently I am using four tubes that H had made up for me last year.  They all have had their sockets removed and replaced with socket that are correct so no adapters are necessary.  One of the El 11's has mesh plates, and two El 12 Spezials so they are going to have to be quite good to pass these tubes up.   H, I just picked up a new music server, a Cambridge CXN V.2 with the new software and a pair of Wolfson WM8740 DACs ,  only have had it in the house an hour but this is  a keeper.  Does all I need to do.  Will be putting my Sony Haps 1 up for sale.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> What's it worth, O?...but you might just be saved - it's time for my supper drink!


Looking at the time zone map, I might have a two-hour head start.


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi fellow (mad?!) hobbyists.
> 
> I know I said my last update on the CV1052/EL32/VT52 tube was about my last, but I must briefly state that - with even further burn-in - this tube has got me more excited than any other I've experimented with since I first asked Feliks-Audio (tongue very much in cheek!) to build an 'Elise', and then the Euforia.
> 
> ...


H1 do these recent extraordinary results come from 4x EL32, or as were these as drivers with your rare EL12 Spez mesh plates? Also I wonder if an A/B to your former favorite combo would rule out any perceptual variations..


----------



## connieflyer (May 22, 2018)

As  nice a write up as H has done,  I am very tempted to pick up a couple of more tubes will supply is on hand and prices low.  But don't know now which ones sound best, they may all sound the same for all I know, or one of the three varieties may be better.  Have two of the cv1052 NOS straight clear and two of the St shaped, and four of the Marconi straight tube on the way in.  Such a shame, as the prices are so low right now, and if these turn out as H has reviewed, they are going to go fast.   Oh what to do?!!  Then there is the issue of adapters, two inbound from H and two inbound from Mrs. X. Sometimes I long for the old days of SS!  NOT!!!


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Well, O, I have not received the adapters yet.


Yes, I understand that. I hope you get them soon. Very soon.


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Sometimes I long for the old days of SS! NOT!!!


Say _*no*_ to evil!

P.S. I'm a fan of _Wolfson_.


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## connieflyer

Marconi tubes should arrive Friday as well as adapters from Mrs X.  H's adapters are at OHare airport in Chicago so a day or two more for them as well.  Excited, now.


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## connieflyer

O, these Wolfson Dacs are quite good first time for me.  And I must say  they are very detailed no shortcomings that I am hearing at all.


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi fellow (mad?!) hobbyists.
> 
> I know I said my last update on the CV1052/EL32/VT52 tube was about my last, but I must briefly state that - with even further burn-in - this tube has got me more excited than any other I've experimented with since I first asked Feliks-Audio (tongue very much in cheek!) to build an 'Elise', and then the Euforia.
> 
> ...





connieflyer said:


> As  nice a write up as H has done,  I am very tempted to pick up a couple of more tubes will supply is on hand and prices low.  But don't know now which ones sound best, they may all sound the same for all I know, or one of the three varieties may be better.  Have two of the cv1052 NOS straight clear and two of the St shaped, and four of the Marconi straight tube on the way in.  Such a shame, as the prices are so low right now, and if these turn out as H has reviewed, they are going to go fast.   Oh what to do?!!  Then there is the issue of adapters, two inbound from H and two inbound from Mrs. X. Sometimes I long for the old days of SS!  NOT!!!


An excellent and very informative write up as always h1, although you're not helping with my eagerness to hear these tubes!  also made even worse by the arrival of my first batch of EL32, should also have a quad of the Marconi by Thursday and a pair of Mullard ST by next week.

BTW these tubes look better than the pics, arrived after just 2 days and just as good and pristine as the day they were made.


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## connieflyer

H's adapters are out for delivery today, can not wait.


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## connieflyer

Well adapters are installed and I will say,  that the picture that H posted does not do the adapters justice.  They are very nice indeed, finished to perfection.  Well, tried the st tubes first, and they hum. Badly.  Took them out and put in the straight tubes.  No hum at all.  Did a thorough cleaning of the st tubes, twice.  Put them back in and no hum, until they warmed up, and then just one is humming.  With the music playing not real noticeable but when it quits very obvious. Only one tube, so going to let them run for eight hours and see if it improves.  If not I will try to replace it.  The Marconi tubes are not due in till Friday as are the adapters from Mrs X.   As to the sound, with less than an hour of burn in, so it will change.   The st tubes are a little more mellow,  top to bottom, a nice sound.  The straight are a little light in the bass (now) and they sound a little harsh.  But these will have to wait it's turn for burn in. Tried one of each and they sounded better, except for the hum.  Time is your friend with these tubes.  I am using Senn 800 and the clarity compared to the El 11's are on almost the same level all ready.  So far, they are keepers.  More to follow.


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## mordy

HI CF,
Thanks for all the information and the preview - I am sure the sound will change with some 20-30 hours.
Are you using the EL12 Spez as power tubes?


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## connieflyer

Hi Mordy yes right now I am using the el12 spez, once I get the other pair of adapters from mrs. X and I get the Marconi tubes I will be giving that combination at try as well. But for right now the mighty el12 spez are doing the power for me


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## connieflyer

Three hours in and the hum has gone. Sound is a little more.well defined. Will listen again in a few hours


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> H1 do these recent extraordinary results come from 4x EL32, or as were these as drivers with your rare EL12 Spez mesh plates? Also I wonder if an A/B to your former favorite combo would rule out any perceptual variations..



Hi DL.

At the moment these results are from 2x CV1052 (EL32) driving EL12 Spez powers...(my mesh plate tubes being the EL11 drivers).
I only managed a short test with 4x ST (smoked glass) CV1052 & EL32 unfortunately, but now hope for a longer one...I shall be giving them a good long burn-in before making any real assessment...so stay tuned lol! 

ps. I shall indeed be putting the EL11/EL3NG back in later to confirm the differences lol...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Three hours in and the hum has gone. Sound is a little more.well defined. Will listen again in a few hours



Hi cf. Glad you like my adapters...and thanks for your kind words.

I was disheartened to hear of your hum, but am glad it seems to have abated. I must say I haven't had the slightest noise from any of my 4 x ST-shape NOS CV1052 and 2 x Pinnacle brand NOS EL32 - all with 'smoked' glass...in fact they're the quietest tubes I've ever had. I do hope yours 'come up to scratch'! 

I was also a little worried when you said the straight-sided tubes sounded a tad harsh...again I've never noticed this trait in any of my NOS ST tubes. I can only hope this settles down and the bass develops with further burn-in. Of course it's still very early days, mind you! . I really hope these tubes manage to approach the military CV1052, due to their availability and much cheaper price. I personally have a sneaking suspicion that as so often is the case, older tubes - especially ST-shaped ones - do turn out to perform better...but time will tell, of course!!....HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## connieflyer (May 23, 2018)

Hello h, no hum at all now I think it's just a case of old tubes finally settling down. As far as the straight-sided tubes they were just put in it only been in for about 10 or 15 minutes I just wanted a brief listen and then pull them back out. I'll try putting those in for 8 hours tomorrow and see if that doesn't settle him down some. I have a feeling it will. The way they sounded was a little un natural so I really think that that's all it is. Those adapters of yours are really really nice. Thank you so much for doing those


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## DecentLevi (May 23, 2018)

Interesting times here - reminds me of the EL11/12 discovery days.
That's also interesting your hum has settled down. It's been my experience that once a tube hums it always comes back, even if for a brief pause. So looks like you are lucky there CF. At least a lot of us also have ferrite chokes which can help too.
When I get mine I'll still burn in although time isn't as much of a luxury for me now as I'm still occasionally on the move - though with all my experience I have seldom if ever at all noticed difference with tube burn-in, as if they all sound the same as from the start.

PS - I've also yet to notice difference with headphone burn-in, though have heard significant changes with amp & external transformer burn-in. And certainly these tubes may well be an exception


----------



## DecentLevi

My EL32s came today. Wow, do I need 32 of these, or do I just have large hands? Looking almost like a 6SN7 size there, LOL 


  2 more photos to put them into size perspective:


 

 

My adapters from HK are due in about a week


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## connieflyer (May 23, 2018)

Tubes have aboit 8 hours on them now. Have been listening for the last hour or so, and I agree with H these tubes are dead silent. The music rises out of a total blackness. No static, no hum nothing. Without any input, turned the volume all the way up, and nothing, no sound at all. When I first started listening, one tube hummed, and they were both microphonic. Now no hum no microphonics at all. Will try these in the morning to see if they are still quiet. The other thing is that the chasis and transformer were not even warm. After 8 hours they were still cool to the touch. Sound is opening up to the point that I believe they are the equal, if not better than the El 11 right now. I can see why H is so positive about this tube. Tomorrow I will put in the straight  glassvtubes and let them cook for 8 hours and see what they are like. Trying to be patient waiting for the Marconi tubes and Mrs X adapters.


----------



## connieflyer

Tubes have a nice glow also


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## hypnos1 (May 24, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Tubes have aboit 8 hours on them now. Have been listening for the last hour or so, and I agree with H these tubes are dead silent. The music rises out of a total blackness. No static, no hum nothing. Without any input, turned the volume all the way up, and nothing, no sound at all. When I first started listening, one tube hummed, and they were both microphonic. Now no hum no microphonics at all. Will try these in the morning to see if they are still quiet. The other thing is that the chasis and transformer were not even warm. After 8 hours they were still cool to the touch. Sound is opening up to the point that I believe they are the equal, if not better than the El 11 right now. I can see why H is so positive about this tube. Tomorrow I will put in the straight  glassvtubes and let them cook for 8 hours and see what they are like. Trying to be patient waiting for the Marconi tubes and Mrs X adapters.



Wakey wakey cf.
That's a marvellous start...bodes well IMHO (particularly as your EL11s don't have adapters!). I personally didn't _really_ begin to appreciate their qualities until after about  four 8 to 10hr burn-in sessions. And I myself *do* notice the difference burn-in makes to nearly _all_ equipment that has to carry electrical sound signals!!  With straight-sided tubes to assess as well, you certainly have your hands full...on second thoughts, given how cheap they are, I suppose I could have given them a try also. But as you went for these first, I thought I'd let you do the honours lol! 

ps. Lovely playback equipment you now have...I expect you've pretty well got all you need...(except F-A's new flagship amp!...which Lukasz hopefully will have preview photos of in the next couple of months...).


----------



## connieflyer

Morning all, yes the tubes are coming along quite well.  I did try the amp with the ST tubes first thing this morning, to see if the hum or microphonices were back and they were not.  Quiet as could be. I replaced the st tubes with the straight wall tubes  a couple of hours ago.  WIth about two hours burn in  on them, they are coming around.  The harshness is subsiding and they are opening up nicely. I too have seen that burn in is a real phenomenom ,  I worked with tubes back in the old days as an electronic flight tech.  When  replacing tubes on the radar system, whether it was he main unit or the consoles, ranges, which is what they judged my work on, was always impacted. They would typically drop 3-4 percent depending on which subsytem they were installed in.  As they burned in the ranges would increase as the units settled in.  So I am a believer in burn in.  These tubes are no different. Awaking from a long long sleep they are starting to really shine. H is correct on the EL 11's these were some that he had changed the base on so no adapters were needed. I checked with my supplier that I got my st's from and he is all out. So finding new ones maybe a challenge, but worth the effort. So far all I have has been the NOS not used, so cannot say what they will be like, but should be okay depending on the tube.  And yes, the new playback equipment is just what I was looking for.  Feeding  music from my NAS is much better than from the computer.  The Cambridge has dual Wolfson Dacs and this is the first equipment I have had that use them.  My impression is very possitive, much better resolution  than any others I have had. Will be putting my Sony Hap S1 , Schiit Gungnir multi-bit up for sale now.


----------



## connieflyer

Very interesting development in the tube saga.  I mentioned that one of the st tubes was humming, so in the interim I sent the seller on Ebay a message stating that and wondered if he had anymore of these tubes.  He replied within about four hours ....   Really sorry for this inconvenience. Tubes are tested on a calibrated tubetester but not on an amplifier. I checked my store and couldn't find another one for the moment.
I suggest to give you a refund of 20 $. All I want is satisfied customers.
If you agree, please keep me informed.

Greetings,
Henri
The user name is filamentum and he has a store as well.  I looks like he would be a very good source to buy from with this kind of an attitude.  Of course I declined the offer as by then the tube had come around.  But it was very nice to see a seller respond that quickly and positively, just thought I would share.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Very interesting development in the tube saga.  I mentioned that one of the st tubes was humming, so in the interim I sent the seller on Ebay a message stating that and wondered if he had anymore of these tubes.  He replied within about four hours ....   Really sorry for this inconvenience. Tubes are tested on a calibrated tubetester but not on an amplifier. I checked my store and couldn't find another one for the moment.
> I suggest to give you a refund of 20 $. All I want is satisfied customers.
> If you agree, please keep me informed.
> 
> ...


Hi CF,
Nice to hear about honest and cooperative sellers!


----------



## connieflyer

Well, have 8 hours on the straight tubes now and they have opened up quite nicely. Bass is tight and hits hard, mids are solid and engaging, treble is no longer harsh but present and pleasant.  I will have to try latter rolling the st tubes back in, but from memory (which is not always accurate) it seems that these don't hit quite as hard.  Not by much, but I will have to check back with my music list that makes things a little easier to tell.  I will put the st tubes back in later and see if it is obviously better or not. Must get back outside for now.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, have 8 hours on the straight tubes now and they have opened up quite nicely. Bass is tight and hits hard, mids are solid and engaging, treble is no longer harsh but present and pleasant.  I will have to try latter rolling the st tubes back in, but from memory (which is not always accurate) it seems that these don't hit quite as hard.  Not by much, but I will have to check back with my music list that makes things a little easier to tell.  I will put the st tubes back in later and see if it is obviously better or not. Must get back outside for now.



This sounds quite promising cf...it will be interesting to hear your impressions of the two types as they develop with further burn-in......as will how the Marconi tubes compare. (I pity your poor ears lol!).

Anyway, just thought I'd update on my ST CV1052s driving same as powers. With a further 20 hrs or so - I leave them to run overnight so as to speed things up (I have plenty of smoke alarms _just_ in case!!) - I can confirm that the 2 together perform _extremely_ well. At the moment I'd say there isn't a lot between these tubes as powers, compared to the wonderful EL12 Spezial...these tubes just continue to amaze me. And taking only 0.8 amps heater current in total, the trafo and case stay even cooler!

And as I mentioned previously, I believe their lower output does in fact help Euforia in more ways than one...including a touch more focus, and slightly less 'echo' effect, presumably this lower output not having quite the same effect from the amp's cross-feed function? But soundstage - with a decent amount of time on them - isn't affected negatively in any way at all IMO...I am indeed smitten!! ...


----------



## connieflyer

Have you noticed a reduction in volume using the four ST CV1052's  compared to using the El12 Spez?  Might roll in some 5998's later to see what changes.  You are right , my ears are going to get a rash from the constant phone changes.  Do you leave your phones connected will they burn in or just leave the amp on with a source playing? With the new player I que up about 8 hours of music and leave my HE400i connected.  I will pick them up now and then to see what is happening.  Just put the ST 's back in and then I will go back to the others and see if I can detect  a difference.  Want to get that out of the way before the Marconi's arrive and I have to compare them, as well as Mrs X's adapters!  Yikes!


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## connieflyer

Just picked up one more ST for a spare, the seller has 2 left if any one is interested.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VT52-...493882?hash=item21290acaba:g:-cgAAOSwjvJZS5XJ


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## DecentLevi (May 25, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Very interesting development in the tube saga.  I mentioned that one of the st tubes was humming, so in the interim I sent the seller on Ebay a message stating that and wondered if he had anymore of these tubes.  He replied within about four hours ....   Really sorry for this inconvenience. Tubes are tested on a calibrated tubetester but not on an amplifier. I checked my store and couldn't find another one for the moment.
> I suggest to give you a refund of 20 $. All I want is satisfied customers.
> If you agree, please keep me informed.
> 
> ...


I was lucky enough to buy my two ST EL32's from him too and he also offered great helpful service, and refunded the difference for combined shipping. I do think he's out though, as you said


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Have you noticed a reduction in volume using the four ST CV1052's  compared to using the El12 Spez?  Might roll in some 5998's later to see what changes.  You are right , my ears are going to get a rash from the constant phone changes.  Do you leave your phones connected will they burn in or just leave the amp on with a source playing? With the new player I que up about 8 hours of music and leave my HE400i connected.  I will pick them up now and then to see what is happening.  Just put the ST 's back in and then I will go back to the others and see if I can detect  a difference.  Want to get that out of the way before the Marconi's arrive and I have to compare them, as well as Mrs X's adapters!  Yikes!



Hi cf. Hope you're now awake and breakfasted...plenty yet to do!...And glad your poor ears are still managing the punishment...but all in a good cause lol! 

I found the CV1052s as drivers resulted in slightly more volume needed on the knob, with or without EL12 Spezs as powers...but not so much as to cause any worry whatsoever. And I love being able to listen with these tubes at slightly higher vol levels than any other combo before...helps bring out even more of the gorgeous sound!

I do believe burn-in is better with the cans still attached...in fact I think it's advised _not_ to have the vol turned up _without_ headphones plugged in anyway! And in my own case, my hps are permanently attached direct to the amp's internal wiring anyway...two lots of connectors dispensed with, and with noticeable positive results. But not, obviously, an option for most folks!! 

ps. The results of using ST-type CV1052s as powers have me thinking the unthinkable...I might just this once try FOUR of them in this role...but specially adapted, of course - this is no place for (straight) Chinese multiple PCB adapters lol


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## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf. Hope you're now awake and breakfasted...plenty yet to do!...And glad your poor ears are still managing the punishment...but all in a good cause lol!
> 
> I found the CV1052s as drivers resulted in slightly more volume needed on the knob, with or without EL12 Spezs as powers...but not so much as to cause any worry whatsoever. And I love being able to listen with these tubes at slightly higher vol levels than any other combo before...helps bring out even more of the gorgeous sound!
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
Unthinkable? You have to think out of the box and take a clue from the Glenn OTL and use *SIX* power tubes! Only 1.2A + 0.4A = 1.6A total - a piece of cake for the Euforia......
I'll bet that this will drive them planar phones!


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Unthinkable? You have to think out of the box and take a clue from the Glenn OTL and use *SIX* power tubes! Only 1.2A + 0.4A = 1.6A total - a piece of cake for the Euforia......
> I'll bet that this will drive them planar phones!



Hi mordy.

Hmmm...methinks FOUR powers will be_ more_ than enough lol! Especially for my hi-impedance T1s - even though they have lower output  (which I think actually suits our amps better) than the EL12 Spezs, there's already nothing missing on the dynamics/slam front with 'just' two, but multiple powers may well help planar headphones. Will let you know the results as soon as I adapt some more tubes!


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy.
> 
> Hmmm...methinks FOUR powers will be_ more_ than enough lol! Especially for my hi-impedance T1s - even though they have lower output  (which I think actually suits our amps better) than the EL12 Spezs, there's already nothing missing on the dynamics/slam front with 'just' two, but multiple powers may well help planar headphones. Will let you know the results as soon as I adapt some more tubes!


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## Scutey

These Marconi tubes look very nice, and like the CV1052 in pristine condition, they even have their own little blankets, just in case they get too cold!, really looking forward to giving them a go now!


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## connieflyer

My Marconi's are sitting in Chicago with the post office they were supposed to be delivered today they haven't moved in 2 days, so I would imagine they're not going to move until after the holidays. The adapters never got shipped from China until yesterday so that's going to be another week or two. But totally enjoying the STS and they are getting burned in pretty well I've got about 30 hours on them so far and they are phenomenal. Going to do one more 8 Hour burn on these, and then try to put 30 or 40 hours on the straight-sided tubes. Also want to try some different Power tubes just to see what they will do. Good luck


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## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> My Marconi's are sitting in Chicago with the post office they were supposed to be delivered today they haven't moved in 2 days, so I would imagine they're not going to move until after the holidays. The adapters never got shipped from China until yesterday so that's going to be another week or two. But totally enjoying the STS and they are getting burned in pretty well I've got about 30 hours on them so far and they are phenomenal. Going to do one more 8 Hour burn on these, and then try to put 30 or 40 hours on the straight-sided tubes. Also want to try some different Power tubes just to see what they will do. Good luck


HI Cf, 
And thanks!.
So close yet so far with those tubes!. I've been reading, along with h1's, your posts on the burning in process, which have been fascinating, I ordered 1 pair of adapters from mrs X, hopefully they will arrive next week, then I can get down to some serious burning in!, this is the part of tube rolling I really enjoy, listening to the differences as the tubes evolve, so it'll be interesting to see if I have a similar experience to both of you. Enjoy that burning in!


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## connieflyer

Keep us informed as you go, it will be neat to see what you hear as the burning process progresses.  Was going to try different powers tonight but got to listening and it sounded so good did not want to mess with it yet!  Tomorrow, before I put the staight tubes in for burning, will try some other powers for a bit just to see what, if any differences compared to the El 12 Spez.   Kind of glad that the other tubes aren't here yet, plenty to do with just changing two sets for burning let alone 3 sets, and then of course comparing adapters, and then seeing what all el32 would be like,  yikes, I am going to go deaf!


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## Johnnysound (May 26, 2018)

Aside from burning on improvements or subtle differences between ST or straight type CV1052, we surely trust H1 ears (LOL), and come on, there is no better deal on earth than a brand new, NOS true vintage Mullard in its original box from Langrex for less than 10 dollars !!

Thats why the Euforia/Elise are so special...they are a tube roller dream, working flawlessly with a vast variety of tubes.   And we still have to discuss here the excellent sound of the “small” tubes in the Euforia: to begin with, the whole 6922 family and their many variants, including top Russian tubes like the 6N1P or 6N23,  any day sounding superior to the 6H8C, or the  6CG7 family, an improved version of the 6SN7GT in noval format, tried the classic RCA  from 1958 or so  (in both chrome and cleartop versions) and the Euforia simply loves this tube above any 6SN7GT, sounding so sweet...I was also impressed with the 7N7s Loktals...and those are drivers, the powers are another matter, the famous “sinergy” is not that easy.

 Anyway,  I do believe that the humble but excellent LD MKIII was the basic inspiration for the Elise,  of course with a  bigger  transformer to allow 6AS7Gs, but most important,  with the unique ability of the LDIII  to use many different tubes,  only that this time an auto bias circuit did the work.  Obviously, this feature is one of the strongest points in the Euforia. But beware, your favorite tubes may not sound as good as you expect...as I said many times, this is not an “easy” amp to live with,  it simply likes some tubes and not others...


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## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Keep us informed as you go, it will be neat to see what you hear as the burning process progresses.  Was going to try different powers tonight but got to listening and it sounded so good did not want to mess with it yet!  Tomorrow, before I put the staight tubes in for burning, will try some other powers for a bit just to see what, if any differences compared to the El 12 Spez.   Kind of glad that the other tubes aren't here yet, plenty to do with just changing two sets for burning let alone 3 sets, and then of course comparing adapters, and then seeing what all el32 would be like,  yikes, I am going to go deaf!


Hi Cf,
I'll will be doing updates on how I get on with them, hopefully the adapters will arrive next week . As for going deaf, wouldn't it be great if we could change our ears like we can tubes! lol.


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## Scutey

Final batch of EL32 arrived today, the Mullard ST, apart from being a bit dirty they appear unused and in good condition, will there be any difference to the straight bottle?, not bad for 13 Euro, if they work!.


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## connieflyer

Tubes look real nice.  I looked for those but could not find any.   I have the mini watt brand of st and they are extemely good.  Just took a little peek at the straight tubes, four hours in  and they are opening up nicely.  This is with using the  standard el12 rsd tube and He400i, and they  still sound great.If they progress like the St tubes, these should be just as good.   TIme will tell.


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Tubes look real nice.


Indeed.


connieflyer said:


> I looked for those but could not find any. I have the mini watt brand of st and they are extemely good.


Remember that brand is just paint. They are still Mullard tubes.


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## DecentLevi (May 26, 2018)

Hey @connieflyer awesome, I'll be interested to hear how your straight-form EL32's compare to the ST version. They do seem quite different internally anyway... And hey what about last month's discovery of the VT-96 / 6N7... those haven't been getting any love since the EL32 heyday? Do they not compare, or were just overlooked lately? 

Well much to my dismay it seems that just maybe my adventure with these new tubes could be delayed, due to postal problems! Today I discovered my VT-96 adapters were 'delivered' 2 days ago in my mailbox - but nowhere to be found!! 

Hey folks, all this effort spent on upgrading sound system, what about the visual experience?  IMHO, a little occasional monitor upgrade can be quite worthwhile. Coming from a Philips 227E7QDSB 21.5" 1920x1080p monitor which was an external monitor upgrade to my laptop's built-in 14" display of the same resolution, I was impressed with the improved handling of colors and contrast, giving greatly improved multi-tasking abilities with multiple windows and far better cinema experience. However, still being able to see individual pixels at arm's length, thought I should go for another upgrade. This time I got the Acer G247HYU smidp 23.8-inch IPS *WQHD* Monitor with a higher resolution of 2560x1440 and much to my surprise it was compatible 'plug & play' with my laptop via HDMI. Now I'm getting a whole new level of realism with smooth, pure whites, deep black, much better resolution, more vivid colors and virtually invisible pixels for a much better HD experience! It is even a bit large though I got a good sale. These are both LED-_backlit _LCD monitors, with a true LED monitor said to be better yet, though at a much steeper cost.


Being more of an audio guy - for me both audio and video are of equal importance when it comes to movies / TV shows.
Well now that we've evolved from the EL3N to EL11, to EL32, and discussed video upgrades... why not adapting the top acclaimed EL34 tube for Euforia, HhaHA


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## connieflyer

Well have between 9-10 hours on the straight tubes and they are sounding about where the st tubes were at this point. Fed them a copy of Moody Blues  Days of Future Passed  96 KHZ 24 bit and these tubes you a great rendition, all the sound effects are easily identified, and when the track Time came on, the alarm clocks were clear and free from any  artifacts.  Paired them with GEC 6AS7's and it is a very full bodied sound indeed.  It will be another  days worth of burning before I try comparing them in earnest. want them to have a good foundation to start with, but they are sounding excellent.  And to think of the price being so low, it is amazing.  As far as compared to the VT 96's , it has been to long since hearing them to have an honest comparison.


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## connieflyer

For a monitor I went with the Viewsonic  VP2468   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HSABSGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  24 inch was big enough and I put it on an arm https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0739LD9BW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 makes it easy to get it out of the way and then put it back in front of me when I want to use the computer, every thing available right from my recliner.  If I had a microrange  and refrigerator I would not have to move all day!


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## DecentLevi (May 26, 2018)

Excellent, that's very hopeful about the possible similarities with the ST vs. straight EL32s. I've actually just got my 6N7 / VT96's up and running! Turns out my landlord put the package on a desk I didn't see, so I'll update my above post about losing my adapters.

My *initial *impressions of the 6N7's are bass that's solid with a bit of a this lower emphasis, overall quite vivid and lush, with a treble quality that is more edgy than smooth, _almost _making them slightly v-shaped. The sound seems quite similar to the dual Ken-Rad 7193 to me. I received distortion at first paired with 6x 6BL7 (externally heated) powers, and better synergy with Bendix 6080, but even better yet with the brighter GEC 6080 (single tube per socket), but overall I'm not quite on cloud 9 with these. I also compared with RCA vs. Ken-Rad 6N7, and found at least from this early test, that the RCA's have better overall refinement and texture, and my K-R's had a volume imbalance. I also hear a somewhat noticeable hum, even with single-tube per socket combos. I'll burn in more and see if these change.


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## hypnos1 (May 27, 2018)

Hi guys...time for an update on using 4x CV1052 - 2 as drivers, 2 as powers. 

With more time on them - plus the adapting wire, of course! - my initial suspicions have been confirmed....you do* NOT *IMHO need to spend loads of $$$$ on any other power tube!
Although I haven't yet done a detailed comparison with the EL12 Spezial (which I prefer even to the mighty GEC 6AS7G variants!), these new tubes perform brilliantly as powers also...driven by the same CV1052/EL32/VT95. I would say they are in fact providing everything I like about the Spezs, apart from the cost!...bass extension and detail are still there in abundance - courtesy more of the drivers - with the same qualities in the treble area...if anything, upper range is now even _sweeter_, with no harshness. Once again, I can listen at higher volume levels, with none of the usual drawbacks involved - only even more 'richness' and detail lol. Dynamics are the same, along with great control and wonderful balance throughout the FR. Spatiality, air and separation are equally good...if anything, soundstage was even wider this morning!
(Plus, for you guys, no need to worry about ferrite chokes on the top cap wire!!).

In other words, this tube impresses me more by the day...but as usual, one has to live with a tube (as with any other part of the gear) for quite a while before any final judgment can be truly made. But at the moment, I feel this is the equal of any driver - or power - that excels in our amps...probably _better!!_ But again, as usual, this is in my own setup and with my ears/preferences. And if @connieflyer continues to find the straight-sided tubes the equal of the ST-type, then at their ridiculously cheap price, they must be the best bargain *ever* lol!! (but I'm sure more ST-type will surface now and then, for those who have a preference for this older-production tube...and at what may probably (hopefully) still be a relatively very cheap price, given their exemplary performance...).

ps. And now, as mentioned before, in my amp that doesn't have the later spike/'crack' reduction on switching off with cans still attached, there is now hardly any such spike at all, which can only be yet another bonus! 

pps. Hope you're all having a great Bank Holiday weekend. I myself should be in Poland, enjoying the hospitality of the entire Feliks family, but it's not to be, sadly......so I shall just have to take comfort with some extra Euforia magic!! ...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 27, 2018)

Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would Echo the thoughts that H has on this tube. Although I have not had a chance to try them as powers last night I did a lot of power tube rolling. Including the gec 6as7 and gec 6080 ts 5998 and my findings are that with the el12 Spez it is a much sweeter sounding tube than any of the other powers that I tried. So I would conclude that Synergy is going to be very important for this tube. I was using the straight-sided tube all last night and it is one sweet sounding tube. So if you cannot find any St tubes, grab some straight-sided tubes and not worry about it. Like H says from time to time the St tubes will make an appearance and when they do jump on them! And the next couple of days I'm going to try to compare the straight and St tubes one against the other but I have a feeling that is going to be very difficult. It's just not going to be obvious which one is the Stellar performer. I can hardly wait to get the adapters from mrs. X so I too can try powers and drivers I have a feeling that H is going to be right again. But then when is he ever wrong! And by the way h, you can put me down for two more adapters if you're still in the market to make these. I can wait no rush I know I have of two coming from mrs. X but I would just as soon have yours if I'm going to use all four. Not to mention they'll look a lot nicer having all for the same!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would Echo the thoughts that H has on this tube. Although I have not had a chance to try them as powers last night I did a lot of power tube rolling. Including the gec 6as7 and gec 6080 ts 5998 and my findings are that with the el12 Spez it is a much sweeter sounding tube than any of the other powers that I tried. So I would conclude that Synergy is going to be very important for this tube. I was using the straight-sided tube all last night and it is one sweet sounding tube. So if you cannot find any St tubes, grab some straight-sided tubes and not worry about it. Like H says from time to time the St tubes will make an appearance and when they do jump on them! And the next couple of days I'm going to try to compare the straight and St tubes one against the other but I have a feeling that is going to be very difficult. It's just not going to be obvious which one is the Stellar performer. I can hardly wait to get the adapters from mrs. X so I too can try powers and drivers I have a feeling that H is going to be right again. But then when is he ever wrong! And by the way h, you can put me down for two more adapters if you're still in the market to make these. I can wait no rush I know I have of two coming from mrs. X but I would just as soon have yours if I'm going to use all four. Not to mention they'll look a lot nicer having all for the same!



Hi cf.

Good to hear your findings so far, and that they confirm what my own ears/brain are telling me lol!...(still can't actually believe it/them!! ). It's especially encouraging to hear that you find the straight-sided tubes so good...keep up the good work, even though you must be needing an ear transplant soon! 

Have just ordered some more Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and (solid) copper wires, so hope to have some more adapters under way very soon now - the top caps having (finally!) arrived. I won't even consider any other wire now...if it's good enough for Woo Audio's new $15,000 WA33 Elite, it's certainly good enough for me!!...although I always go by my own results anyway...So you're on the list for another pair lol!

And on the subject of comparison, I personally have found that it can indeed be very difficult to assess _exact_ differences when two tubes are so similar - especially because of the time factor, when one lot need to cool down well before removal, and the next need time to warm up! Then the only real way to tell is proper _fast_ A/B-ing, which requires TWO exact same systems running side-by-side...and who can manage that?!! And so I myself go more by using tracks that I've listened to literally _hundreds_ of times, and looking for certain traits within each that *must* at least be present in the new tubes/gear, *plus *any extra that may come along...and _not _be lacking anything whatsoever from the previous 'best'. This can only come, of course, from tracks one knows _very _intimately...boring in one respect, but the _best_ way of judging IMHO......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning h, that is the way that I test tubes to compare one to another. The time factor between changing tubes is just too long to be able to remember exactly the differences. The best that we can hope for is it we can tell if there's an increase or decrease in the playability of a file that is well-known. On another note I too have noticed with these tubes I tend to ride the volume a little higher than normal and the sound of the music the individual notes sound so much Fuller and sweeter this way it's not just a loudness effect, I know volume is volume but writing it higher on these tubes just increases the enjoyment considerably glad to hear that you also noted that. I was equally amazed that the two types of tubes straight and ST are so similar. It's a good thing because the s t tubes are hard to come by. But no reason not to try these with the ample supply of the straight tubes it's well worth investing in the adapters just so that you can wait for the ST if that's what you want.


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## hypnos1

Hi again folks.

I know I've been hogging things lately re. the CV1052/EL32/VT57 tube (sorry!), but after yet another couple hours' rest (almost as important as use time for NOS tubes) and then a few more hours' burn-in, the soundstage I heard this morning wasn't due to early waking state after all...listening now to one of my favourite test tracks - Loreena McKennitt's 'The Gates of Istanbul' - I have *never, ever* heard a soundstage like it. Along with even _more_ detail and separation_ - _again, that I haven't heard before - using 2x CV1052 as powers, driven by 2 of the same is proving even *better* than EL12 Spezials.

Needless to say, I'm in total disbelief at the moment...but this is being confirmed with each track of her 'An Ancient Muse' assailing (nay, _caressing!_) my ears...and this is at volume levels I would previously have listened, not even a higher one.

These tubes obviously have tremendous 'synergy', and perform in our amps to a level undreamt of, even if not configured for. My system has *never* sounded this good...and is _way _beyond stock configuration IMHO.

BFN...a gobsmacked CJ


----------



## Scutey

Great to hear their still improving h1, looking forward to giving them a go this coming week!


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Great to hear their still improving h1, looking forward to giving them a go this coming week!



Can't wait for your own impressions Scutey...objective ones, of course lol!

As a further update for folks interested, after another night's burn-in, plus a rest period, I am obliged (nay _sad_ in some ways!) to report that with these tubes also in the power role they *surpass *even the mighty TFK EL12 Spezials, which I still find unbelievable and never anticipated. To do so at such a relatively (dirt, in my lucky case!) cheap cost is totally beyond reason...can't say any more. Except that the soundstage is now phenomenally wide; separation, positioning and detail is even better than before...and that bass and sweet treble are unparallelled. No other tubes, configured for or not, come anywhere near in Euforia IMHO (and I suspect, Elise). But as usual, let your own ears decide...and _*trust them!*_...above _anything or anyone_ else lol!


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## DecentLevi (May 29, 2018)

Quite fascinating how these EL32s are able to achieve such a wide soundstage being rather small in size; I was under the personal impression that only large, thick tubes are able to do good stage, especially such as the smaller 'miniature' 9-pin octals which to me excelled in all ways except soundstage. Hey H1, why then don't you give up those 'lowly' rare mesh plates to one of us for free 'in the name of science'  (joking).

Anyway the race is on now to see who will be the lucky 3rd one to try the EL32s on the Euforia - or the first to finally try Xuling's EL32 adapter. Any lurkers reading this, please do post here. We don't bite or ask for too many words either.


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Quite fascinating how these EL32s are able to achieve such a wide soundstage being rather small in size; I was under the personal impression that only large, thick tubes are able to do good stage, especially such as the smaller 'miniature' 9-pin octals which to me excelled in all ways except soundstage. Hey H1, why then don't you give up those 'lowly' rare mesh plates to one of us for free 'in the name of science'  (joking).
> 
> Anyway the race is on now to see who will be the lucky 3rd one to try the EL32s on the Euforia - or the first to finally try Xuling's EL32 adapter. Any lurkers reading this, please do post here. We don't bite or ask for too many words either.



Well, DL...these CV1052/EL32 certainly blow your personal impressions right out of the water lol!  I have never encountered such a soundstage before!...especially with them in the power seat, driven by the same tube. I know my equipment, plus UP-OCC cables will surely be helping here, but this finding is still relative to my previous 'best' tubes, and so should still apply in other systems.

And it will indeed be interesting to hear further impressions from early users of this tube...in different setups, and with different ears/preferences. But it's already encouraging that @connieflyer is finding the same results as myself...and the more impressions the merrier!

On which note, I must repeat here what I alluded to _at length(!)_ over at the Elise thread :https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...e-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-717 , post# 10747, for anyone interested in the ethos behind my experimentation with non-configured-for tubes...ie. there are *always* exceptions to the rule where accepted norms and 'wisdom' are concerned - especially when it comes to our often 'mysterious' and contradictory hobby lol!!

In the final analysis, so long as safety is adhered to (which is why I am pretty well always the guinea pig with most new, unconventional, tubes!), I can only stress once again..*.trust your own ears!*...

ps. Even though my beloved mesh-plate EL11s have now been superseded by these 'little' upstarts, I shall probably keep them for posterity...perhaps lol!!!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 29, 2018)

Have another 8 hours of burn in on the S T tubes and going for another 8 hours this morning and I must say these are opening up quite nicely. Very eager to get another pair of adapters so I can use drivers and power tubes of the same type. The excitement continues, and thanks again H for putting us on to these tubes especially being so inexpensive to get these kind of results with our amps is a real pleasure indeed. So thank you exhalted one!


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## connieflyer

The VT52 VT 52 EL32 NOS Marconi Canada Valve Tubes are in the house.  They look great, and even better, they sound great. One pair in now with the El12 Spez and they have about 20 minutes on them and they already sound very nice.  Will check again in a few days after burn in and cool down sessions to see how they compare to the others.  Excellent condition of the tubes and the individual boxes.  Shipping box was in great shape, well packed and very secure.  They did a very good job of this.  Had good communication with this seller.


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## DecentLevi (May 29, 2018)

My EL32 adapters came in today. As you can see from these 21 photos they look very beautiful with the silver plated copper cap wire, and appears true that the pins use gold plated brass.

 

As I was cleaning the tubes with a damp towel before use, just a gently nudge was all it took to accidentally snap off the top cap. Looks like there was a bit of corrosion under the cap and it may have not been connected very well, making any stress to the top rest solely on the ageing wire that connects internally.


I was able to get a proper test out of these lovely marvels nevertheless! First I confirmed that Mrs. X adapters do indeed work, testing only one along with a Ken-Rad VT-231 (6SN7) tube. After compensating for the expexted channel imbalance, what I heard from the right channel with the EL32s was a very detailed, extended and proper sound, with noticeably more instrument separation, even from just one channel! Next I did a 1-min. test of both by way of steadily holding the top cap wire against the top pin of the tube, and absolutely I'm getting what seems to be first-class difelity. Liquid, sweet but not overly euphonic, and detailed... and that with just with the 4x EL3N as powers, which are not quite my favorite. I'll need to ask the seller whether or not these are already burned in.

Now I'm running out the door to get this soldered back into one piece at an (iPhone) repair shop - wish me luck!


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## DecentLevi

ALSO for any new owners of EL32 / CV1052 tubes, take the above as a CAUTION to take extra care when handling the top pin to prevent it from breaking off. I wonder if any type of glue would be advisable?
PS - I had already burned in my metal black 6N7/ VT96 tubes for a good 24 hours over the last 3 days and to me the sound didn't change if at all, still quite boomy / slow in the bass and with semi-harsh edgy treble yet OK dynamics. Its' sound was quite different from the minute I had with the EL32, which was actually SOMEWHAT similar to the KenRad VT-231


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## SnapperMusicFan

Hi All,

Have been reading this thread with excitement, have been away with business for a while, so away from my Euforia/Elise, I'm am back now to find a whole load of packages for me to collect from the post office. among the packages are 4 x ST VT52's, 4 x Marconi VT52's & 4 x Mullard CV1052's
but only 2 adapters out of eight purchased, so my trail options are little limited I have tried the ST's as both drivers and powers and the best combo I have at the moment is ST VT52's as drivers and a nice pair of Bendix 6080WB's as powers, the soundstage is huge they are both detailed and dynamic,
the bass response is tight and detailed, through both my T1 Gen2's and played through the Focal Shape 50's. The mids are balanced and not too forward, the treble is so under control. I have been listening to Song's My Father Taught Me - Pepe Romero, Faure's Requiem John Elliot Gardiner & the Monteverdi Choir,
Tracey Chapman's remastered greatest hits, Aimee Mann's Mental Illness & Macey Gray's Stripped. They all sound amazing, I'm 72 hours in with this combo and they do not disappoint. I have tried the same combo in both Elise & Euforia and they sound so clear in both, with zero background/noise floor that I can hear
even wound right up. They are so clean when you turn Elise off, unlike the Ken-Rad 6F8G's that make a big pop even with the volume turned right down. These are going to be so hard to beat. Listening to Editors - No Harm, lots of sub bass and it's so under control, can't seem to find anything to throw at them that
gives them any form of headache. The biggest problem with 6F8G tubes I've found is microphonics, there's none with these valves.

Brilliant discovery!

Some pictures........


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## hypnos1

Hi @SnapperMusicFan and @DecentLevi .

Really happy you're echoing my and @connieflyer 's findings...it appears my ears weren't deceiving me after all lol! And if your tubes are NOS especially, things WILL only get better with further burn-in. And then with 2 as drivers and 2 as powers I think you'll be totally blown away...I certainly was!! 

Sorry you had one of your top connectors come off DL...presumably a used tube? But with such old ones, this can indeed sometimes happen...but usually the metal cap just comes loose, with the wire still attached. So, as you say, care does need to be taken with these! In such a case as yours - especially if there isn't enough wire left to resolder through the top, it probably won't be too easy to reattach...obviously, if only very little wire left, soldering will be extremely difficult, and one might need to try and make sure of good wire to inside of cap contact then keep in place using something like 'BluTak'...if glue is used you're in trouble if that contact breaks subsequently, of course! Or, one could (carefully!) solder an extension piece of wire to that remaining, which could then go through the hole in top of the metal cap...assuming you can remove the solder already there!!...Just some ideas lol...

ps. Glad that Mrs X's adapters seem to be fine as well...I wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand I'm sure will follow!!! 

pps. Remember that with continual use of the top cap connector of the adapter, it's grip function might gradually lessen - a downside of old. But as I mentioned before, if this does happen, try prying the adapter's metal connector back into 'bulge' shape with a VERY small (glass mender's, for example) screwdriver...but be ready for the whole inner metal assembly to possibly come out lol! Which is why I personally extend one of my top cap wires so as to also make contact with the tube's connector, plus epoxy in the soldered connection so it'll never pop out! 

ppps....ENJOY!!...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 30, 2018)

Gave a listen last night after midnight to the Marconi's as drivers, after the first eight hour burn in and I must say to me they're just a little bit better than the cv 1052 that I have already burned in. My impression is that these may be better than the St. But I have to wait for another couple of 8-hour burn in and then do a close compare to be sure. But either way any one of the three tubes types will be certain to please you. As with all things vintage, care should be taken when handling something like this tube, connector on top that is so old. They were never ever meant to last 60 or 70 years. It was assumed that when they were manufactured then sold, they would be used right away and used up within several years. So depending on how they were stored originally you can get corrosion under that cap but then with anything that old corrosion is quite possible. Why just this morning as I was pouring my first cup of coffee I noticed that my left arm is starting to get some corrosion on it and is just  hanging by a thread, so I suppose I'll have to go in to have that arm reattached! Take care and good luck with your tubes. On my second burn for the Marconi's hoping for good things


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## hypnos1 (May 30, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Gave a listen last night after midnight to the Marconi's as drivers, after the first eight hour burn in and I must say to me they're just a little bit better than the cv 1052 that I have already burned in. My impression is that these may be better than the St. But I have to wait for another couple of 8-hour burn in and then do a close compare to be sure. But either way any one of the three tubes types will be certain to please you. As with all things vintage, care should be taken when handling something like this tube, connector on top that is so old. They were never ever meant to last 60 or 70 years. It was assumed that when they were manufactured then sold, they would be used right away and used up within several years. So depending on how they were stored originally you can get corrosion under that cap but then with anything that old corrosion is quite possible. Why just this morning as I was pouring my first cup of coffee I noticed that my left arm is starting to get some corrosion on it and is just  hanging by a thread, so I suppose I'll have to go in to have that arm reattached! Take care and good luck with your tubes. On my second burn for the Marconi's hoping for good things



Interesting to hear your take on the Marconis so far...and even more interesting that they might just surpass the original Mullards...amazing, even!!  At that silly price I think I'll give them a look also! 

You are of course right concerning such old tubes - I'm sure the makers never dreamt their glass wonders would be so sought-after, so much later...

Methinks also @DecentLevi must have talked up this problem of tube's top metal connector coming adrift lol...my NOS, NIB EL32's top came off this very afternoon - after several uses. For me, and anyone else DIY inclined (and who doesn't mind it being a permanent job!), this is actually a bonus - just as with loose bases, this means I can make direct metal-to-metal contact...fulfilling my mantra "the best connector is _*no*_ connector!!" 

ps. Just now listening to an old recording of Peter, Paul and Mary's 'Best of' (especially 'Early Morning Rain'), and with these 4 (smoked) ST CV1052 in place I am once again confounded by their performance...regardless of cost! Hi-res material (well-recorded, that is!) is mind-blowing...I have never been so confident in recommending a tube - it delivers everything one could ever want. And I'm sure it will sound good without having to go to my lengths in the rest of the system...(but I still advise folks to do whatever they can in upgrading as many parts as possible lol!).

pps. On reflection it might be a good idea (as DL mentioned) to use some 'superglue' (or special glass glue) before using the tube, to secure the tube's metal top connector to the glass. Either that or once the adapter is attached... _keep it there! _


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## connieflyer

Just came in from yard work tubes are still cooking, so I grabbed a quick lesson and they are coming along nice they are totally I mean totally silent you turn that volume down there is nothing there it's total Blackness. And as others have mentioned when you turn this tube off there is no pop in the headphones at all that is a great thing. Weather these Marcone's turn out to be better than the other two versions only time will tell but even if they do not rise above the STS I am totally happy with them. Thanks for the update h Peter Paul and Mary with a really good recording sound fantastic on this amp.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just came in from yard work tubes are still cooking, so I grabbed a quick lesson and they are coming along nice they are totally I mean totally silent you turn that volume down there is nothing there it's total Blackness. And as others have mentioned when you turn this tube off there is no pop in the headphones at all that is a great thing. Weather these Marcone's turn out to be better than the other two versions only time will tell but even if they do not rise above the STS I am totally happy with them. Thanks for the update h Peter Paul and Mary with a really good recording sound fantastic on this amp.



Yes indeed cf...the* totally* silent background, with or without signal, is uncanny lol...and can only help with the clearest/cleanest (not to mention _best!_) sound this amp has ever delivered. Euforia - especially with these tubes - is now definitely a match for anything anywhere near this price...even at its higher one! And with really good gear (and cables) up and down-stream I would pitch it against amps _much_ more expensive!!  

Looking forward to your final impressions of the Marconis...CJ


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Just came in from yard work tubes are still cooking, so I grabbed a quick lesson and they are coming along nice they are totally I mean totally silent you turn that volume down there is nothing there it's total Blackness. And as others have mentioned when you turn this tube off there is no pop in the headphones at all that is a great thing. Weather these Marcone's turn out to be better than the other two versions only time will tell but even if they do not rise above the STS I am totally happy with them. Thanks for the update h Peter Paul and Mary with a really good recording sound fantastic on this amp.


If you want to use Crazy Glue to secure the cap on a new tube, I can recommend this item that has a little brush in the cap. I have used it a number of times to secure loose tube bases, and it works very well. Just brush on a little, let it dry, and you are done. Costs around $3 for 5 gram with brush:


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> If you want to use Crazy Glue to secure the cap on a new tube, I can recommend this item that has a little brush in the cap. I have used it a number of times to secure loose tube bases, and it works very well. Just brush on a little, let it dry, and you are done. Costs around $3 for 5 gram with brush:



Looks just the ticket mordy...and that brush is mighty handy lol!


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## Scutey

Wow it's all kicking off with these EL32's, h1 really has started something!, so it's time for me to add my to penn'orth! .

Received my mrsX adapters so only driving at the mo, another pair arriving soon, courtesy of h1, thank you sir!.

So far I've tried my Mullard EL32 ST and straight bottle CV1052 using EL12, EL12N and 5998 for powers, after 6 hours the ST still seem to be barely awake, not going to read anything into that just yet, patience is a virtue!, the CV1052 sounded good almost immediately, today after another 3 hours the CV's have  opened up some more, soundstage is huge, sound wise, to my ears, they give an in concert level of realism, clean, clear, super transparency, highs sparkle with detail without fatigue, slightly forward and detailed mids, warm bass is tight detailed, for me they have some of the best features of the EL3N, (transparency), and (energy), an detail of the EL11 plus a helping of their own unique sound, after just 5 hours these CV sound impressive, but I suspect, especially with two pairs of adapters, the best is yet to come, happy days!.


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## connieflyer

Sounds great Scutey,  sounds like you are on your way to more enjoyment from the Euforia.  Amazing how versatile this amp is.  Using tubes that it was not designed around, and getting better results by far than the stock tubes.  Your results echo my own using the same powers.  Awaiting a second pair of adapters so I can try all El32's.  If it is like H says, this could be the ultimate combo.  Of course as soon as you say that H will find some obscure tubes and we are off to the races again.  Keep the results coming. and good luck


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## Scutey

Thanks cf. The versatility of these amps is incredible, like you I have a second pair of adapters coming, made by h1, and have every reason to expect h1 will be right about x4.


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## connieflyer

I received the adapters from Mrs. X today, and have been listening to four of the Marconi's tonight.  H is correct, sound stage is huge.  Clarity, bass, mid's ,  treble it is all there and in spades.  I played a very difficult piece (sonically) and it  clarity and and consistency of the Soprano's voice, especially the upper registers, is the clearest I have ever heard it. The song is Angus Dei by Michael Hoppe and the interplaly between the male and female voices is perfect,  they play off each other and intertwine to perfection.  The driver tubes have about 28 hours on them and the powers  were NOS when I put them in so less than an  half an hour.


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## DecentLevi (May 31, 2018)

Funny meandering post ahead, LOL...

Hey guys, thanks for the advice and I'm a bit surprised having not gotten any 'FLAC' from taking my tubes in for a repair at an *iPhone *repair shop of all places, Lol! (BTW, I'm not an Apple user). Well it just came down to what's available within easy reach of my neighborhood - it was either the iPhone repair shop or a home brewery kit manufacturer, HAhaHA. So after a while we were able to get the cap connected again, with some of my soldering help. And surprisingly the staff worker has actually heard of tubes, using them in his speaker amp. So, it seemed to be our only option of connecting this top cap was to fill the cap at least half way full with solder so the ultra short top wire would have something to catch onto. We only had solder available mixed with some sort of lead, so I was left with a top cap full of perhaps several grams of this lead-based solder. I'm not sure it's a very good conductor material, but in my brief testing I don't seem to hear any difference between this and my other 'normal' EL32.

Just so happens the advent of the cap falling off set off a chain of events that caused me to get seriously ill with some sort of virus either from the fast food I ate on the way, or the little lead I inhaled in the process, so I've been bed-ridden for 20 of the last 24 hours, and now just barely able to walk and eat again. GOOD GOD, the things us die-hard audiophiles do in the name of 'fidelify', LOL!!! But now everything on my Euforia sounds bright as hell... thinking it was something with the EL32's, I switched back to one of my darkest combos for comparison (quad EL3n + very neutral pair of 6SN7)... sure enough this sounded overbearingly bright too, though putting back the EL32's I noticed these do seem to be a smidget brighter than the totally neutral 6SN7's. So it's worth noting that sometimes medical / physical condition actually plays a role in audio perception, such as illness, or even after just waking up. If a part of your system sounds unusual, compare it to a tried & true setup to rule out any equipment-related factors influencing your perception. For me right now, I'm in no shape to make a proper assessment of this tubes' sound, but at least will let it burn-in overnight.


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## hypnos1 (May 31, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> I received the adapters from Mrs. X today, and have been listening to four of the Marconi's tonight.  H is correct, sound stage is huge.  Clarity, bass, mid's ,  treble it is all there and in spades.  I played a very difficult piece (sonically) and it  clarity and and consistency of the Soprano's voice, especially the upper registers, is the clearest I have ever heard it. The song is Angus Dei by Michael Hoppe and the interplaly between the male and female voices is perfect,  they play off each other and intertwine to perfection.  The driver tubes have about 28 hours on them and the powers  were NOS when I put them in so less than an  half an hour.



Good news cf...once again it's nice to hear I wasn't fooling myself lol! . And with further burn-in of both tubes and adapters you can only be even _more_ impressed!! 

ps. From @DecentLevi 's experience, and my own, it would most certainly appear that is indeed a very good idea to glue down those top metal caps before using the tubes!!  (By the way DL, glad to hear you managed to save your tube - you were fortunate also that the heat didn't crack the tube!!! . As for hearing being impaired, certain illnesses will definitely affect hearing...just like headaches - when the TV surround's subwoofer especially _has_ to be switched off, and treble can pierce like a knife lol! Luckily, most folks can tell immediately when such problems occur!
But when I suffered acute sciatic pain, listening through headphones is all that kept me sane...along with max strength co-codamol!! . But when your proper hearing returns, I'm sure you're in for a nice surprise...as all others who have now tried these EL32s have found......Get well soon!).


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## hypnos1

Just another quickie, and as an aside...the UK ebayer who has the Marconi VT52s at £6 (plus £4.50 postage, within UK) is the very same one I had to return my top caps to for refund. He now won't accept my order for 2 said tubes, which doesn't actually bother me one bit - I have now put in an offer for 10 of these tubes from a very well-respected company (Billington Export), so will (should!) have some extra for folks who may be interested in them...

ps, @connieflyer has had good dealings with this ebayer, however, so don't feel put off buying from him if you want some...


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## hypnos1

And the latest pic of my 'Bringer of Joy' : Euforia plus 2x (smoked glass) ST CV1052s driving similar powers..._*magical!*_

From old (but often well-recorded) Peter, Paul and Mary to Andreas Vollenweider's (superbly recorded) New Age 'Caverna Magica' (via Adrian Boult/LPO's 'Planets Suite', remastered in 96kHz/24bit - tremendous!), this setup can reproduce _anything_ with absolute aplomb...just breathtaking lol...CHEERS!...CJ


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## Oskari

DecentLevi said:


> We only had solder available mixed with some sort of lead, so I was left with a top cap full of perhaps several grams of this lead-based solder.


Do you think they used lead-free solder 70 years ago? What do you think is inside the pins?


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## connieflyer

Dl's concern about leaf fumes on the very limited repair, is way off base.  All the years in the Navy, as an electronics technician we used lead based solder.  That is all we used. Industry did the same.  Just to give you an idea,  on the aircraft that I maintained, there were over 3000 tubes on all the equipment used for the radar, navigation, radio, and other types of comm gear.  You think the tv repairman had a large case of tubes he brought to your home for tv repair, you should have seen my tube locker on board!  All the equipment used solder, and I along with all the other techs were constantly exposed to "solder fumes".  I just ordered 3 more of the EL32 - VT52 - CV1052 TUBE. TRONIX BRAND TUBE so I can try a four some of the ST style tube as well.  I believe they are Mullard but until I have one in my hands don't know for sure.   Seller told me had about 70 tubes of this type left if any one wants a link.


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> And the latest pic of my 'Bringer of Joy' : Euforia plus 2x (smoked glass) ST CV1052s driving similar powers..._*magical!*_
> 
> From old (but often well-recorded) Peter, Paul and Mary to Andreas Vollenweider's (superbly recorded) New Age 'Caverna Magica' (via Adrian Boult/LPO's 'Planets Suite', remastered in 96kHz/24bit - tremendous!), this setup can reproduce _anything_ with absolute aplomb...just breathtaking lol...CHEERS!...CJ


You amp is looking good h1, great pic!, you're right about these tubes making even old recordings sound good, last night listening to Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto by Ashkenazy/Previn, I've never heard it sound so good, incredible!.


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## connieflyer

Beautifully done H!  I will take four, please! If only you had time and supply, you could have a nice little side business!  Of course that would not leave much time for the garden.  Nicely done, I am jealous. 


hypnos1 said:


> And the latest pic of my 'Bringer of Joy' : Euforia plus 2x (smoked glass) ST CV1052s driving similar powers..._*magical!*_
> 
> From old (but often well-recorded) Peter, Paul and Mary to Andreas Vollenweider's (superbly recorded) New Age 'Caverna Magica' (via Adrian Boult/LPO's 'Planets Suite', remastered in 96kHz/24bit - tremendous!), this setup can reproduce _anything_ with absolute aplomb...just breathtaking lol...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

I have noticed this as well, thought it might just be me.  Some recordings that were not so great actually sounded pretty good with these tubes.


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## hypnos1 (May 31, 2018)

Yes indeed @Scutey and @connieflyer ...one of the yardsticks I judge by is how old, not so well recorded material is handled...and I too have never heard my so-so recordings sound this good. And as for hi-res...well, 'nough said lol!!...CJ

ps. I hope my offer for 10 Marconis is accepted...can then make good deals for fellow pioneers! And it will be interesting to see how you find 4x ST EL32s, compared to 4x Marconis, cf...(but what I'd _really_ love to know is whether there's any difference between my 'smoked glass' ST CV1052, and the clear glass ST EL32...but from the look of things, they (smoked glass) are now very hard to find - reckon I was lucky enough to snaffle most of those around...unless some more surface in time!).


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## connieflyer

Well if you'd really like to know the difference between the smoked glass and the clear glass STS, you could always send me your smoked glass s t and I would be glad to compare when my clear get here!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well if you'd really like to know the difference between the smoked glass and the clear glass STS, you could always send me your smoked glass s t and I would be glad to compare when my clear get here!



Hmmm cf...I'd much rather come visit, with them in tow lol! But that isn't on the cards for a good long while yet, alas......but we live in hope......


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## connieflyer

H you would always be welcome.  After Connor passes, I plan on doing some traveling and may get over there yet.  Had planned on going to  meet Phil, and Matt at one time.  But life got in the way.  Phil was a set back for me. I miss him.  I actually go to our earlier posts and re-read the reparte , great fun.  I do believe it is going to be difficult comparing the various versions of the EL 32 tube


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## Scutey (May 31, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> H you would always be welcome.  After Connor passes, I plan on doing some traveling and may get over there yet.  Had planned on going to  meet Phil, and Matt at one time.  But life got in the way.  Phil was a set back for me. I miss him.  I actually go to our earlier posts and re-read the reparte , great fun.  I do believe it is going to be difficult comparing the various versions of the EL 32 tube


I agree I think it's difficult to notice any difference, I've now tried 3 types, black glass ST, straight CV1052 and straight VT52 and they all sound very good to my ears, although I guess it's also possible some differences could show with more burn in, another thing it could also show a consistency of sound between various types, brands, shapes etc, which could only be a good thing!


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## connieflyer

Indeed it's good news as with the limited number that may be out there you'll still get good response regardless of which type you end up with. So far the difference is that I have seen are very very minor. Will need a lot more testing and comparing Define any meaningful differences. Good show,Scutey


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## DecentLevi (May 31, 2018)

OK folks, lest I delay posting with haste what I call a superstar combo:


EL32 + 6N7 / VT96 (RCA)​After trying my EL32's with my top powers including Bendix 6080, RCA 6080, RCA 6AS6G, Mullard 6080, GEC 6AS7G and quad EL3N, I have found something with amazing synergy! Bass that's powerful and detailed, spot-on tonality, fantastic damping / dynamics, seemingly infinite reproduction of realism, and treble that is sweet: detailed, yet smooth and not fatiguing. At first I was prompted to test the EL32 as drivers with Bendix 6080 thanks to @SnapperMusicFan, but ultimately these did not have anywhere near the synergy of the above. Next I went through the other powers listed above (with the EL32's in front as drivers) and found OK yet somewhat bright pairings with Mullard 6080 and the GEC's as best so far, but EVERYTHING changed when trying the RCA 6N7's as powers... loving the sound and knowing the driver/power order was not necessarily up to spec, I reversed the order as shown above and I get a sound that was EVEN better than my initial impression. To put it in another way this is weighty, controlled, extended and has sublime texture & definition.

Disclaimer / notes:
As mentioned earlier I am still getting over an illness that has seemed to affect my hearing, however I am certainly able to notice synergy in any state, and had done this based more off of comparative deductions vs. other formerly noted combos with superb synergy such as the Bendix 6080 + RCA 6SN7GT 'Electrion Tube' smoked glass (newer style). Interestingly, I was just about to push the 6N7 aside after getting lackluster performance with all other powers, until the EL32 came around, when it shown its' true potential. My 6N7's have at least 24 hours on them and for me the RCA were much better than the Ken-Rad. If this combo can wow me this much with hearing not in full effect, just think how good this must sound in reality! Who would have thought that both of the two recently recommended tubes would have great synergy TOGETHER? Must be heard to be believed.

PS- @Oskari - noted that lead solder is used inside tubes, but I wouldn't have exactly known that of tubes made 30 years before I was born, especially since I can't visibly see any solder on the fine workmanship of most


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## DecentLevi (May 31, 2018)

PS - from running the EL32's in front / driver position for a good 12 hours thus far and being able to literally cup my hand around them without getting overheated - then hearing sublime performance with these as powers and noticing the temperature is a good 2-3 hotter, it is my *hypothesis* that the EL32's may operate at more optimal temperature as powers.


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## DecentLevi (May 31, 2018)

Hey CF anytime you can, that would be interesting to hear your thoughts on any audible difference between the three brands of EL32 and both adapters


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## connieflyer

So far am not finding much difference in the types.  I do not have any of the black ST's though.  Am trying the vt-96 with the EL 32 this morning and like it quite well, good call.  One thing to remember with the reviewing of the tube types, the headphones we use are going to make a difference as well.  I am using the Senn 800, and the 400i for burning in.  If you are using other headphones what you hear may be different than what I am hearing.  The 800 is extremely detailed and open. I had the Senn 650 with black drivers and the 650 with the silver drivers and they were a little different from each other.  Not a lot but it was there.  Preferred the silver drivers as they were a little less "veiled".  Dislike that word, but it as close to describing what I heard that has been talked to death.  That is one reason I chose the 800 over the newer 800S.  People complained about the lack of bass on the 800 but if it is in the music it is there. My friend brought over his (formerly mine!) 650's to compare.  And it was amazing how different they sounded.  It is no wonder I went with and kept the 800. Hear things in the music that the 650's just don't resolve. I also had the Beyer T1  V1 and really like that as well, until the left driver went bad, and seller would not exchange, only refund from amazon.  So armed with this info, you can decide for yourself what it all means.  If your phones are not open, or resolving and I say these tubes are very open and extended and you try them and don't find them to be so, it could be the difference in equipment.  Also the discussion of the difference you may hear, not the "test"  Laurel or Yanni  sound bit.  Shows that even though equipment is the same you may not hear what I hear.  Incidentially I heard the word as Laurel.


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## Oskari

DecentLevi said:


> PS- @Oskari - noted that lead solder is used inside tubes, but I wouldn't have exactly known that of tubes made 30 years before I was born, especially since I can't visibly see any solder on the fine workmanship of most


Do you think that I was there at the time?


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## hypnos1 (Jun 1, 2018)

Hi guys, just a quickie.

Your _hypothesis_ about EL32s running more optimally as powers doesn't make much sense to me I'm afraid, @DecentLevi ...tubes as drivers function differently to those as powers/output, even when the same tube lol!.. and their circuits are totally different ...and the latter will *always *run much hotter!! The fact that they outperform my mesh-plate EL11 drivers - and all other tubes that I've tested for several years now in Elise and Euforia, shows they are just as good in the driver role, as that of output...and is being confirmed by all others so far. The two together are perfectly matched, to be sure...(and I personally have always found EL tubes partner best with EL tubes!). But to each his own, of course......

Out of interest, I thought I'd see just what sort of temperatures are in fact at play with these tubes in situ...so here goes...(after 2+ hours)

Ambient temp.  :  21.5 deg C

1.Transformer housing.   2. Amp case.   3. Driver (base); 4. (glass, top).   5. Power (base); 6. (glass, top)

        1: 25.5C                     2: 27-28C          3: 31-32C       4: 29-31C          5: 45-47C          6: 35+C


So from this, we can see that the trafo  and case have very little rise in temp...which is easy to tell anyway - they are hardly even warm to the touch!

And with tubes running much cooler than configured for ones, the overall effect of cooler resistors and capacitors can only be of positive benefit - given the tubes obviously perform extremely well, even if not properly configured for. And who knows what their _true_ optimal parameters are lol?!!...(and does it really matter?...as I mentioned before - *trust your own ears!!*)....CHEERS!...CJ

ps Hope the temps are clear enough - had spaced them nicely, then when posting they go awry!!,,,grrrr!!  So have also numbered them...


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## connieflyer

H, I wholeheartedly agree. Throughout all the years that I worked as a technician heat was always my problem. The only time it was beneficial, was flying at 15-20 thousand feet in an aircraft that was not Optimum for temperatures AKA it was cold, all that electronic equipment in the back definitely made for a much warmer environment. Especially around the transmitter you could almost roast hot dogs on that magnetron tube! So the fact that these tubes run so cool the Transformer runs so cool will help the longevity of the amplifier itself. These tubes really sound amazing together, I am quite impressed. Another great discovery by h, the overlord!


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## Johnnysound (Jun 2, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> And the latest pic of my 'Bringer of Joy' : Euforia plus 2x (smoked glass) ST CV1052s driving similar powers..._*magical!*_
> 
> From old (but often well-recorded) Peter, Paul and Mary to Andreas Vollenweider's (superbly recorded) New Age 'Caverna Magica' (via Adrian Boult/LPO's 'Planets Suite', remastered in 96kHz/24bit - tremendous!), this setup can reproduce _anything_ with absolute aplomb...just breathtaking lol...CHEERS!...CJ



Well done H1 !  And BTW your amp looks gorgeous with the quartet of ST  black bottles...you got the last tubes available  on earth it seems, I found only a few clear ones.  I ended ordering some “straight” Mullards CV1052,  (that also look great, ha ha) and are quite cheap...recently, I was playing with 12AX7s and 12AT7s in my int. Amp, and felt that triple mica tubes (military versions) are consistently better (quieter) than  standard ones.  Of course  you can not apply this as a general rule for other types, but anyway I decided to try the “straight” Mullards triple mica vs. the  ST double mica.

 I also found  that virtually all the CV1052 Mullards currently on sale (in ebay UK) are from only two series:  M02-B6I2 and M02-B9I2, that means made in Blackburn factory in 1966 and 1969, respectively.  A quite interesting discovery was that this was a dedicated “telecom” tube, used in critical relays that had to work 24/7.  This explains the need for an amazingly low power  consuming tube.  And I suspect that to obtain the required  stability , precision, amplification level and reliability with so little power on hand (a super efficient tube) can only be achieved with an absolutely top notch design and internals, probably with some exotic metals there, who knows.  Anyway, this one is without a doubt the “British C3G”, both are high spec telecom pentodes...and both were “discovered” by H1, our telecom specialist (LOL)

The Marconis VT52 also look impressive, and we’ll see how the three (or four) variants perform against each other...


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

Hi All,
Loving this little combo, a pair of 6h8c’s up front and a pair of Valvo EL11’s in as powers, vinyl sounds fab through these and out through the LS50’s or the T1 Gen 2’s... mmmmm sweet


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Well done H1 !  And BTW your amp looks gorgeous with the quartet of ST  black bottles...you got the last tubes available  on earth it seems, I found only a few clear ones.  I ended ordering some “straight” Mullards CV1052,  (that also look great, ha ha) and are quite cheap...recently, I was playing with 12AX7s and 12AT7s in my int. Amp, and felt that triple mica tubes (military versions) are consistently better (quieter) than  standard ones.  Of course  you can not apply this as a general rule for other types, but anyway I decided to try the “straight” Mullards triple mica vs. the  ST double mica.
> 
> I also found  that virtually all the CV1052 Mullards currently on sale (in ebay UK) are from only two series:  M02-B6I2 and M02-B9I2, that means made in Blackburn factory in 1966 and 1969, respectively.  A quite interesting discovery was that this was a dedicated “telecom” tube, used in critical relays that had to work 24/7.  This explains the need for an amazingly low power  consuming tube.  And I suspect that to obtain the required  stability , precision, amplification level and reliability with so little power on hand (a super efficient tube) can only be achieved with an absolutely top notch design and internals, probably with some exotic metals there, who knows.  Anyway, this one is without a doubt the “British C3G”, both are high spec telecom pentodes...and both were “discovered” by H1, our telecom specialist (LOL)
> 
> The Marconis VT52 also look impressive, and we’ll see how the three (or four) variants perform against each other.  I would even suggest a kind of systematic approach, say, using the CV1052 as drivers with several of the well known high performance  powers in the Euforia:  EL12 Spez., EL12N (I am currently in love with these terrific tubes, made by RFT east Germany,  at first so so, but after 30 hours burn in the sound  opened up beautifully, with air, refinement, and at the same time impact  and definition second to none) 6H13 (my equivalent 6N5P Svetlana “winged C” late fifties sounds splendid), some nice 6AS7Gs, Mullard 6080, 5998s, and so on...



Thanks for your kind words J...I really do believe these very cheap(ish!) tubes are the best find yet - regardless of price! I may well have been lucky in my acquisition of the smoked glass, military ST CV1052s...there don't indeed seem to be many around at the moment lol...(I do also like aesthetics to be a factor...if at all possible! ).

And I'm sure you're right concerning their need to be robust tubes, because of their purpose - military CV1052/VT52, and GPO CV1052...there probably is some very special metal inside!! . And could well corroborate @connieflyer 's and @Scutey 's findings re. the standardisation of performance amongst the different types available. (I only wish UP-OCC wire was about in those days...but then, every penny was still costed! And I also wish holes weren't put in the metal top caps used in some tubes - this allows corrosion of the wire inside to take place, and hence to possibly break at its connection with the metal cap. Another good reason to glue down that cap before using such tubes lol! . Of course, the makers never intended these tubes to be used _so_ many years later!! This corrosion also happens with the wires going down into the base, which is why I gain access to them when adapting my own tubes - to clean up said wires before attaching the new ones...direct metal to metal, then 4% silver soldered...I know... _picky, picky!!_ ).

Your mention of _systematic_ testing of different tubes _sounds_ great, but in practice, this is very difficult to achieve, alas - the time involved is rather prohibitive! Or, should I say, if it is done _*properly! *_As I've said on several occasions before, one needs to live with a tube for quite a long while before getting a true and accurate view...anything  less gives results that are not really viable or worthy, as far as I'm concerned. And then you have the problem of audio memory being notoriously short lol!
This is why I never bother going back, once I'm really happy with a tube. As each new one comes along, it *must* surpass my previous 'best' by a reasonable margin - and in a good many areas. I want a tube that will perform well with as many genres as possible - I personally won't keep swapping to 'suit'. And thus I always stay with this new-found 'best'...presuming it doesn't develop an annoying trait later on!! But as usual, YMMV!

GOOD LUCK with your own testing however, J...looking forward to your eventual impressions of the CV1052/VT52/EL32 also....CJ


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## hypnos1 (Jun 2, 2018)

Don't know what's going on with these postings...grrrr...will try again!

Brief(?!!) update on my offer for 10 Marconi VT52 - after the counter offer (finally!), I'm afraid I shall be declining on grounds of principle...to come back with a reduction of just _*25 pence!*_ is unbelievable. I have never had such an insult on ebay (.co.uk). I thought an offer of £36 against £42 (which is still very good, mind you) was a _fair_ one, but...!!!

Ah well, don't really need any more anyway lol...good luck to 'em is all I can say...

ps. Listening now to music soundtrack from 'Gladiator', and words fail me...@Oskari would be proud! ...(er, just a couple - it has never sounded this good, especially being able to turn up the volume!..sorry O...).


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## connieflyer

Sorry about your eBay experience h, but some sellers really like to push it to the last penny thinking that if you need 10 or what 10 you'll pay the extra. I guess he came up a little short this time! Good for you. These tubes just never cease to amaze me period with really good high def recordings the amount of information that is available that comes through is the best that I have seen so far. Anybody want to buy my gec 6as7 and gec 6080's? Good price low usage and I won't be using them much anymore I am a happy camper. Have a good day people, moorhouse work for me


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## Scutey (Jun 2, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Don't know what's going on with these postings...grrrr...will try again!
> 
> Brief(?!!) update on my offer for 10 Marconi VT52 - after the counter offer (finally!), I'm afraid I shall be declining on grounds of principle...to come back with a reduction of just _*25 pence!*_ is unbelievable. I have never had such an insult on ebay (.co.uk). I thought an offer of £36 against £42 (which is still very good, mind you) was a _fair_ one, but...!!!
> 
> ...


That is insulting h, what on earth is the point of 25p reduction!.Also I've noticed a seller I bought 4 from at £5 each is has now upped the price of single tubes to £7.50, a 50% increase in less than 2 weeks!.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> That is insulting h, what on earth is the point of 25p reduction!.Also I've noticed a seller I bought 4 from at £5 each is has now upped the price of single tubes to £7.50, a 50% increase in less than 2 weeks!.



Glad you and @connieflyer agree...sometimes a matter of principle over-rides everything else lol!!.. (either that or I'm getting even grumpier with each day I get older!! ).

And I'm sure these ebayers keep a close eye on us!!!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Sorry about your eBay experience h, but some sellers really like to push it to the last penny thinking that if you need 10 or what 10 you'll pay the extra. I guess he came up a little short this time! Good for you.* These tubes just never cease to amaze me period with really good high def recordings the amount of information that is available that comes through is the best that I have seen so far*. Anybody want to buy my gec 6as7 and gec 6080's? Good price low usage and I won't be using them much anymore I am a happy camper. Have a good day people, moorhouse work for me



I believe these tubes reward especially those with top grade gear in the rest of the system...especially highly resolving headphones such as HD800 or Beyer T1...


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## connieflyer

I believe this as well. I do also think that with headphones that may not be quite as resolving the results using these tubes compared to the others should still enhance your listening pleasure. If the phones that you have sound good to you moving to these tubes will make them sound even better. Now of course that's my opinion, but whenever I ever been wrong! Okay never mind telling me about the last part


----------



## Scutey

Well h at about the same time as you posted on ebay sellers generous 25p offer I put in an offer of £38 not, knowing of your post and guess what he has gust come back to me with an even better offer of *20p!*


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I believe this as well. I do also think that with headphones that may not be quite as resolving the results using these tubes compared to the others should still enhance your listening pleasure. If the phones that you have sound good to you moving to these tubes will make them sound even better. Now of course that's my opinion, but whenever I ever been wrong! Okay never mind telling me about the last part



Too true cf..._*all*_ systems will probably benefit a good deal from using these tubes lol...


----------



## mordy

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi All,
> Loving this little combo, a pair of 6h8c’s up front and a pair of Valvo EL11’s in as powers, vinyl sounds fab through these and out through the LS50’s or the T1 Gen 2’s... mmmmm sweet


Hi SMF,
Always interested in trying other people's recommendations, I followed your advice and am now listening to a pair of Foton 6H8C ribbed anodes from 1955 and a pair of Telefunken EL11 tubes from 1943-44.
Using my bargain LS50 "sound-alikes" the Elac Debut B6 +Elac S10 Subwoofer; it really sounds very good at first impression. The midrange especially is very vivid with excellent bass.
Usually, when using speakers I turn up the volume to max on my Euforia and adjust the speaker volume through my integrated amp. Using the EL11 at max volume on the Euforia the sound distorts, but it goes away if I turn down the Euforia volume a drop.
Still plenty of volume and I am really taken by this sweet sound - delicious!
WOW!


----------



## mordy

6H8C/EL11


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## hypnos1

Hi guys.

For those interested, as there seems to be little or no difference between the different types of EL32/CV1052/VT52, and in light of @Scutey 's mention of the recent price hike by his UK ebayer of the Marconi VT52, it would appear the best deals are of straight-sided CV1052, either from several UK ebayers at $5 to $6 each plus shipping, or I notice dBtubes.com (in Canada) have them at $7, but I don't know the shipping cost : http://dbtubes.com/en/mullard-vacuum-tubes/cv1052-el32-vt52.html

At these prices, and given their stellar performance, they have to be the bargain of the century!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I see that the seller valvetubesonline raised the price of the Marconi's from $5 US to 10$ US already.  These are getting popular.


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## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> I see that the seller valvetubesonline raised the price of the Marconi's from $5 US to 10$ US already.  These are getting popular.


That's who I  bought a quad from at £5 each, less than an hour later they had gone up to £6 each.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I see that the seller valvetubesonline raised the price of the Marconi's from $5 US to 10$ US already.  These are getting popular.



More like *profiteering* lol!! ...

I understand market forces, but I hate and _detest_ this aspect of the 'free market economy'...thankfully there are, obviously, plenty of the CV1052 still available, from the ebayers I alluded to in my previous post. So this Marconi VT52 ebayer can be given a wide berth, methinks!!  (if so inclined, there's still the offer of 10x CV1052 for £42 - just don't bother making 'Best Offer', and avoid being insulted!!)...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Jun 3, 2018)

That's what I paid also. I did a search on eBay a couple of different times and so far he is the only seller that has the Marconi e l 32v t52 so I'm figuring if you want them you're going to have to pay his price for him so glad I got some early


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## connieflyer

Just got the first Tronix tube in and it looks just like the Phillips Mini Watt.  Looks like Oskari is correct they look like Mullards


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## connieflyer

Anyone else having trouble posting photos?


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## connieflyer

Have to do it one at a time


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## connieflyer




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## connieflyer




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## connieflyer

With the discussion of the Fotons, decided I should take another look at them.  Tried them with EL32, EL2 Spez and TS 5998.  Well, they do sound good, just not as good as four El32's in my estimation.  But to each his own.


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Just got the first Tronix tube in and it looks just like the Phillips Mini Watt. Looks like Oskari is correct they look like Mullards


Thanks for the photos. They are _very_ similar. Perhaps they are not from the same batch because there are _minor_ differences, but I'm willing to accept that they are both Mullards.


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## connieflyer

Looks like this seller is selling his stock quite quickly.  Only 59%  left .  This is the seller I bought from .  https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VT52-...574268?hash=item1ee23b943c:g:-cgAAOSwjvJZS5XJ


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## DecentLevi (Jun 6, 2018)

I just got a pair of straight-form Mullard and Marconi VT52. No wonder CF reported the EL32's all sounding similar. Close inspection in bright light or held up to the window reveals how similar these round plates are, with similar lead wires and plates that seem to have only slight variance in width, and larger variations with upper fins and getter. My hearing's been back for a while and I'm enjoying the ST EL32's but haven't  yet had a chance for these new guys.

Searching for a good diagram of lingo for tube construction in general I came across this illustration.. seems mostly complete accept "fin" and "base" which this tube doesn't have in the sense of larger tubes. Maybe somebody has a better diagram of lingo.






EDIT: Here is a photo I found from one of our earlier threads when a user opened his broken EL3N in the name of science, which clears the terminology up a bit:





Oh and per advice from H1, I went ahead and applied a small 'ring' of superglue around all the top caps, just as with my first one that I had repaired, as preventative measure to make sure they won't break off again like last time...


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## connieflyer

Brief explanation.    http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/t_bas5.htm


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## connieflyer

This one is for pentodes  http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/t_bas8.htm


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## DecentLevi (Jun 6, 2018)

OK, after spending a good few days with the EL32's here's my take. And as a pre-disclaimer these are my personal opinions, and YMMV depending on tube condition and other elements of your chain, or preferences. The below is based on multiple critical listening sessions well after my hearing has recovered over the last 5 or so days, and with an assortment of headphones; Senn. HD-600 with silver cable_ (which I do find resolving and suitable for my tastes),_ Senn. HD-650 and Senn. HD-380 closed-backs, as well as a variety of well mastered songs that I'm intimately familiar with.

In a nutshell the EL32 are like a mini-EL12 Spez of a different flavor. Having only considered _sonic _similarities until the time of writing, it becomes ironic noting how similar the (ST-shaped) EL32's look to the EL12 Spez _visually_; yet are around 40% smaller. The EL32's to me have a dazzling sense of fidelity in a very sweet, detailed way, with bass definition / quality, detail and dynamics that are nearly impeccable. The highs are silky smooth and 'sweet', allowing for a fairly non-fatiguing listen at medium-high levels just as H1 put it. For me the DOWNSIDES lie in bass quantity (amount), 'thinness', and soundstage. My multiple comparisons against the EL12 Spez reveals a sound that to me seems more 'intimate' with a subtle improvement in texture and a slight boost in weight to the bass, as well as a substantially larger soundstage which to me was lacking on the EL32's. However the EL32's to me still have their place: a slightly more neutral, less euphonic tone can actually be a very welcome trade off for some recordings - which to me the EL32's certainly excel in neutrality with nothing overdone and not overtly euphonic. OTOH I do often prefer the EL12 Spez which to me is a master at uncanny reproduction of micro-detail, intimate voicing, texture, soundstage and a fairly pure bass reproduction.

Having also compared the EL32 to many other tube types I would say they sound most similar to VT-96 and Ken-Rad VT-231 (6SN7) in tonality, similar to EL12 Spez in frequency, but comparatively brighter than more neutral tubes such as GE 6SN7GTA, Valvo EL12, Bendix 6080, etc. (having also compared these as powers or as drivers accordingly). Speaking of *PAIRINGS:* There's a reason why this article only pertains the EL32 pairings with other EL tubes: In agreement with H1, these do synergize better with EL tubes. My sole exception was as previously noted: EL32 (powers) + VT-96 black metal drivers. This pairing was robust, weighty, extended great PRaT; albeit _slightly _V-shaped and not nearly as detailed / organic sounding as the EL32 was with other EL tubes especially all types of EL12 and the better pairing EL12 Spez. That is to say, IME the EL32's as powers don't like the 6SN7 class drivers, usually sounding 'soft' and not detailed, and make the miniature 9-pin octals sound bright; as drivers the EL32's don't seem to like any 6080 or 6AS7G class tubes; Bendix 6080 sounded 'good' but not nearly as synergestic as with other EL tubes, and somehow the synergy just wasn't there with GEC 6AS7G or RCA 6080's.

By no means am I advising against the EL32, as these do occupy a throne extremely high 'above the clouds' in the realm of super top-tier rare radio valves. To me though it takes a certain taste to like these, as they seem _modestly_ skewed toward the thin and bright side of the spectrum; almost as if a tube with the sound signature of the Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. Interestingly these are reported to pair well together as well; and I will once again emphasize that YMMV depending on your environment and preferences. Thus being said however, I would strongly advise AGAINST getting these tubes for anybody who considers themselves a basshead - the bass quality is fantastic but not especially forward.

So my advise is for anybody with a single-tube setup to get one pair of ST-shaped EL32's and one pair of EL12 Spez (each needing special adapters). The above was based on how these two performed *against *each other (tested as both powers and drivers, which they both do with immaculate finesse and flexibility!!) Having also tested these *together*, it becomes evident that that synergy abounds - BIG TIME! With EL12 Spez as powers and EL32 as drivers I get a very balanced, snappy and resolving sound, then reversing it with EL32 as powers it seems you get a sound that interestingly has a nuance more warmth and laid back. I would also advise anybody who's impressed with the sound of the EL32's to do a comparison with EL12 Spez whereas I feel confident that not only will you hear differences, but that 'that mighty EL12 Spez' will hold its' ground till the bitter end!! 
​


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 6, 2018)

_


DecentLevi said:



			OK, after spending a good few days with the EL32's here's my take. And as a pre-disclaimer these are my personal opinions, and YMMV depending on tube condition and other elements of your chain, or preferences. The below is based on multiple critical listening sessions well after my hearing has recovered over the last 5 or so days, and with an assortment of headphones; Senn. HD-600 with silver cable (which I do find resolving and suitable for my tastes), Senn. HD-650 and Senn. HD-380 closed-backs, as well as a variety of well mastered songs that I'm intimately familiar with.

In a nutshell the EL32 are like a mini-EL12 Spez of a different flavor. Having only considered sonic similarities until the time of writing, it becomes ironic noting how similar the (ST-shaped) EL32's look to the EL12 Spez visually; yet are around 40% smaller. The EL32's to me have a dazzling sense of fidelity in a very sweet, detailed way, with bass definition / quality, detail and dynamics that are nearly impeccable. The highs are silky smooth and 'sweet', allowing for a fairly non-fatiguing listen at medium-high levels just as H1 put it. For me the DOWNSIDES lie in bass quantity (amount), 'thinness', and soundstage. My multiple comparisons against the EL12 Spez reveals a sound that to me seems more 'intimate' with a subtle improvement in texture and a slight boost in weight to the bass, as well as a substantially larger soundstage which to me was lacking on the EL32's. However the EL32's to me still have their place: a slightly more neutral, less euphonic tone can actually be a very welcome trade off for some recordings - which to me the EL32's certainly excel in neutrality with nothing overdone and not overtly euphonic. OTOH I do often prefer the EL12 Spez which to me is a master at uncanny reproduction of micro-detail, intimate voicing, texture, soundstage and a fairly pure bass reproduction.

Having also compared the EL32 to many other tube types I would say they sound most similar to VT-96 and Ken-Rad VT-231 (6SN7) in tonality, similar to EL12 Spez in frequency, but comparatively brighter than more neutral tubes such as GE 6SN7GTA, Valvo EL12, Bendix 6080, etc. (having also compared these as powers or as drivers accordingly). Speaking of *PAIRINGS:* There's a reason why this article only pertains the EL32 pairings with other EL tubes: In agreement with H1, these do synergize better with EL tubes. My sole exception was as previously noted: EL32 (powers) + VT-96 black metal drivers. This pairing was robust, weighty, extended great PRaT; albeit slightly V-shaped and not nearly as detailed / organic sounding as the EL32 was with other EL tubes especially all types of EL12 and the better pairing EL12 Spez. That is to say, IME the EL32's as powers don't like the 6SN7 class drivers, usually sounding 'soft' and not detailed, and make the miniature 9-pin octals sound bright; as drivers the EL32's don't seem to like any 6080 or 6AS7G class tubes; Bendix 6080 sounded 'good' but not nearly as synergestic as with other EL tubes, and somehow the synergy just wasn't there with GEC 6AS7G or RCA 6080's.

By no means am I advising against the EL32, as these do occupy a throne extremely high 'above the clouds' in the realm of super top-tier rare radio valves. To me though it takes a certain taste to like these, as they seem modestly skewed toward the thin and bright side of the spectrum; almost as if a tube with the sound signature of the Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. Interestingly these are reported to pair well together as well; and I will once again emphasize that YMMV depending on your environment and preferences. Thus being said however, I would strongly advise AGAINST getting these tubes for anybody who considers themselves a basshead - the bass quality is fantastic but not especially forward.

So my advise is for anybody with a single-tube setup to get one pair of ST-shaped EL32's and one pair of EL12 Spez (each needing special adapters). The above was based on how these two performed *against *each other (tested as both powers and drivers, which they both do with immaculate finesse and flexibility!!) Having also tested these *together*, it becomes evident that that synergy abounds - BIG TIME! With EL12 Spez as powers and EL32 as drivers I get a very balanced, snappy and resolving sound, then reversing it with EL32 as powers it seems you get a sound that interestingly has a nuance more warmth and laid back. I would also advise anybody who's impressed with the sound of the EL32's to do a comparison with EL12 Spez whereas I feel confident that not only will you hear differences, but that 'that mighty EL12 Spez' will hold its' ground till the bitter end!! 

Click to expand...

_


DecentLevi said:


> __​


_
"So my advise is for anybody with a single-tube setup to get one pair of ST-shaped EL32's and one pair of EL12 Spez (each needing special adapters)."_
Per the above sentence, if anybody may have been curious why my advice was only for those with a "single tube" setup, and to get the "ST-shaped version", an explanation follows:

Having today received the Mullard and Marconi versions of EL32/VT52 I had a little chance to to a comparison. However do note these are VERY EARLY initial impressions of NOS tubes. This is by no means the 'final word', just initial impressions: To me it seem the ST-shaped EL32's may have a nuance better soundstage and sense of 'realism', while these straight-form shaped tubes could be a small touch warmer. After two _initial _head-to-head's with the Marconi vs. Mullards, my preference so far goes to the Mullards for a modestly more robust tone with bass weight, and modestly better since of PRaT. I use the term 'PRaT' (Pace, Rhythm and Timing) more than 'dynamics' now because these do seem to both have an equal transient response / detail, but I got a better sense of rhythm and timing with the Mullards. These differences were very subtle so you still can't go wrong with either.
... what I can I say, those British and those brown-base tubes usually get a better rep LOL.




For me, my best pairings involve 6 power tubes and two drivers, thanks to @JazzVinyl for his superbly fashioned custom 20ah Triad brand external transformer. Much of these last 6 weeks have been carefully comparing compatible combinations within spec, and though I do not officially recommend this type of a setup, I have personally found new sonic heights with 8 tubes just was not possible with any 4 or even 6, regardless of class/brand. (with SPECIFIC combinations, not just any 6 tubes). I am mighty impressed with the below combo of 4x EL32 + 6BL7 powers + Mullard EL32 drivers, though will still be in a slow process of comparison with other unique multi-combos I have discovered which to me may have been even better yet.


----------



## mordy

With all the interest in the EL32 tubes, I am still exploring other avenues. Inspired by DL and others I have been trying out various multiple tube combinations, but all within the parameters of the Euforia maximum current draw of 7A to play it safe.
One strange thing is that the amount of hum is different using headphones and speakers. What might be tolerable with speakers may be unlistenable with headphones.
Was listening to EL11 as powers with Fotons as drivers - very nice and sweet. Then I switched to 4xTFK EL11 as powers. The bass became much more powerful (too powerful in the long run) and more detailed and it sounded good over speakers. But way toooo much hum with headphones - back to the drawing board.
Next tried 2 EL11 with a pair of Ken-Rad 6N7 as powers. The Ken-Rads have a good reputation for bass. No hum at even loud listening levels and nice sound, but missing something - the magic was not there, a trifle dull sound, but quite good.
Next 2 EL11 with a pair of 6N23P from the 6DJ8 family. Forget it - humming like crazy.
Not giving up so fast - next a pair of 6SN7GTB (RCA unsung heroes) with the ELs. Now we are talking - no hum and great bass. 
This is what I am listening to now - really good. However, cannot keep the Euforia volume  control at max (just as with one pair of EL11) and have to dial it back to 2 o'clock with speakers to avoid distortion; 10 o'clock is plenty with headphones. This combination seems to be just the ticket for the EL11 tubes. Sweet and punchy. Time will tell...
This six tube combination draws 4.2A.





PS: The RCA Unsung Heroes are mid 1950-60's 6SN7GTB tubes that have a small horizontal heater wire (glows in the dark) above the top mica. These tubes are not expensive and great sounding, but I haven't found others yet to corroborate this....
Here is a picture showing the heater wire on top in the middle (only some of the RCA 6SN7GTB tubes have this feature):


----------



## mordy

Just checked out the bass of this set-up with a 1986 recording - more than enough deep bass, probably limited by my speakers:

Check out that bass guitar!


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## DecentLevi (Jun 7, 2018)

VERY nice taste in music, Mordy. I've actually been listening a lot to 'world music' (an American-coined term for anything considered exotic by our standards LOL) a lot recently, such as Dead Can Dance and other Brazilian samba jazz / African tribal treats, as well as similar live music festivals. I've also found a similar combo to sound good on an externally powered setup: EL12 Spez + quad 6SN7 powers + 6N23p or EL12 drivers, which I'm still comparing to my top favorites including multiple EL32's.

PS- My 6 EL32's were NOS and are still burning in, which is made faster by my current setup.


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## hypnos1

Interesting results @DecentLevi ...reinforces the different results that are obtained in different systems! 

I personally went straight from EL12 Spez (fabulous tube!) powers to (smoked glass) ST CV1052, both driven by same... and immediately had _larger_ soundstage; greater detail; more presence - and there was no reduction at all in bass performance...if anything, there was even _more_ weight! 

And so this will definitely be a case of one cannot know for sure just how these tubes will sound in any one system...*until you try it lol!!* ...

ps. I have a gut feeling that the (old) smoked glass military ST CV1052 of mine _might_ just have the edge over others of this type...so am awaiting a pair of NOS straight-sided Mullard CV1052 to see for myself..._in my system!_...

ps. I must stress once more that Feliks Audio *definitely* would never endorse self-assembled multiple tube setups...regardless of external power supply!! Any associated problems would NOT be covered by the warranty.

pps. Lukasz has assured me, however, that given the length of time I personally have been using EL tubes in Elise and Euforia, they should now have proven to be 'safe', even if not officially sanctioned...CJ


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## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Interesting results @DecentLevi ...reinforces the different results that are obtained in different systems!
> 
> I personally went straight from EL12 Spez (fabulous tube!) powers to (smoked glass) ST CV1052, both driven by same... and immediately had _larger_ soundstage; greater detail; more presence - and there was no reduction at all in bass performance...if anything, there was even _more_ weight!
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
What is the official position on multiple tubes without external power and within current draw specifications?


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## connieflyer

Hey Marty, it looks like in the second paragraph from last from H's previous post that Feliks audio would not endorse any multiple tube adapters they are Transformer powered or not. That is how I am reading it at any rate. I have never seen anything on their website or information that recommends or sanctions any multiple tube adapter combinations for this amplifier. I had them when I had the Elise but after hearing some stories of problems with the adapters causing Elise problems I no longer do multiple adapters. Have not seen the need personally. I think when information is put on websites about the type of tube adapters and whatnot that is done that is all that Feliks audio would need to deny service should a problem arise with the amplifier. They have been very lenient in the past, I don't see that continuing. Of course that is my opinion


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> What is the official position on multiple tubes without external power and within current draw specifications?



Hi mordy.

@connieflyer has pretty well stated F-A's position, but may I just also give my own take on this.

After a good many previoius discussions with Lukasz on this area, the past (official) position has always been that _nothing_ is endorsed that is not recommended, or provided by, themselves - and therefore will not be covered by the warranty (which is true of most businesses, making amps or otherwise!). This obviously covers non-sanctioned tubes; power supplies other than those provided by the amp itself; other types of 'modification'; 3rd party adapters etc...particularly, as cf says, _multiple _ones that can be more problematic than singles! 
Any, and all of these, we experiment with *at our own risk*. And I don't foresee any change whatsoever in this position by F-A...but I shall confirm with Lukasz himself.

As mentioned before, the _only_ concession he has in fact made has been to say that as I have had no issues whatsoever with the EL tubes for over 18 months now, that at least _these_ should be safe to use (but, sadly, still cannot have official approval). He has, however, been adamant that anything else cannot be sanctioned - officially, or _un_officially...ie. _experimenter beware!!
_
Hopefully this answers your question, m...


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## connieflyer

After gong back and trying the vt96 with the el32, it did sound quite nice.  So tonight I decided I would try another favorite of mine, the Visseaux 6N7G.  I have always enjoyed these tubes and the are called Joy Bringers for a reason.  Now with the El32 as powers this combo exceeds the Vt96 by quite a bit. Full mid's clear highs, piano is sharp and clear, the attack on the keys is momumental and bass in spades.   And they glow!  A very full sound. I got these tubes from  UT a couple of years ago.


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## connieflyer

If you have not seen this before, it is quite interesting on how tubes are made


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> After gong back and trying the vt96 with the el32, it did sound quite nice.  So tonight I decided I would try another favorite of mine, the Visseaux 6N7G.  I have always enjoyed these tubes and the are called Joy Bringers for a reason.  Now with the El32 as powers this combo exceeds the Vt96 by quite a bit. Full mid's clear highs, piano is sharp and clear, the attack on the keys is momumental and bass in spades.   And they glow!  A very full sound. I got these tubes from  UT a couple of years ago.



Lovely glow, and lovely photo cf...

And good to hear that there's probably a combo to suit all tastes lol! 

ps. Have just received my pair of straight-sided Mullard CV1052 from ebay member 'yitry' (ie. the great 'Langrex, UK'), and as has been already said, they look much better in the flesh! Can't wait to give them a try...when I can find the time, that is!

pps. I noticed that they themselves have already sold *208 *of these, and another member 12 lots of 50...so that makes *808* in total, just from these two! (Langrex surely not _buying_ on ebay!). So _someone, somewhere_ obviously loves these tubes lol! 

ppps. Have managed to bag what could very well be nearly the last 10 smoked glass, NOS (NIB) ST CV1052 on the planet, so if anyone's interested just PM me...CJ


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## connieflyer

I had heard the same thing from a couple of suppliers.  They said that this tube has moved faster than most, in the last year.  Good tube, good amp, great sound.  Visseaux 6N7 and VT 32's this morning.  So far using the same testing queue as all the other 32's and so far (as memory serves) the sound is very much the same.  The bass is slightly deeper on this pair, as I recall from last night, but the difference is very slight.  If you can not find the st version the other versions will serve you well.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> *I had heard the same thing from a couple of suppliers.  They said that this tube has moved faster than most, in the* last year.  Good tube, good amp, great sound.  Visseaux 6N7 and VT 32's this morning.  So far using the same testing queue as all the other 32's and so far (as memory serves) the sound is very much the same.  The bass is slightly deeper on this pair, as I recall from last night, but the difference is very slight.  If you can not find the st version the other versions will serve you well.



Yep cf...would _love_ to know where they've been going, and the amp in question lol!


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## connieflyer

The one seller was very aware of the Felix amp and wanted to know when we started using the vt32 tubes in that amp.  Told him it was not a stock tube but the amp was so versatile that many tubes will work in it and do a quite admirable job, he was quite surprised. He said he had to keep renewing the stock on eBay cuz they kept going so fast. So somebody out there is using these. Whether it's somebody that sees them moving and decides to buy up quantity to resell at a higher price I don't know I have seen that happen before though. These tubes certainly do sound great in Felix amp.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> The one seller was very aware of the Felix amp and wanted to know when we started using the vt32 tubes in that amp.  Told him it was not a stock tube but the amp was so versatile that many tubes will work in it and do a quite admirable job, he was quite surprised. He said he had to keep renewing the stock on eBay cuz they kept going so fast. So somebody out there is using these.* Whether it's somebody that sees them moving and decides to buy up quantity to resell at a higher price I don't know I have seen that happen before though*. These tubes certainly do sound great in Felix amp.



That could certainly be partly the case, cf...but with such numbers as mentioned, there _must_ be another amp(s) in the equation IMHO - I doubt anyone in their right mind would gamble _too_ much with the relatively low numbers of F-A's amps around, and at such an early stage?!! ...the plot thickens!.....


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## DecentLevi (Jun 8, 2018)

Well, a couple days in with the straight form EL32's, nothing's not to love. May not be basshead tubes as the bass isn't forward, but it's certainly there in fine amounts and the overall sound is very linear and hard to beat. I just did my 2nd head-to-head with the ST shaped smoked (silver) glass Philips EL32's vs. straight Marconi vs. Mullard, now all being burned in at least 20 hours... my findings go like this: The ST-shaped EL32's seem to have _modestly _more detail (transient response, upper details), and _modestly _larger soundstage as well. The differences really aren't that great, and even an experienced listener may have trouble finding any difference unless in a case like mine, listening for subtle details on certain loops of certain songs you're very familiar with.




For more differnces between the straight Mullard vs. Marconi's, they sound virtually identical, both being slightly more laid back than the ST tubes, and IMO the *brown base Mulards* are the winner between the two. I call these the *"rhythm master"*. Out of literally around 50 driver tubes I've tried to date of many classes, these to me have bar-none the best handling of dynamics - period. A seemingly perfect sense of timing and rhythm, as if designed by either a pro dancer or top mixing engineer  - trust me there's no rhythm this one can't do right from rock to pop, to elecro! Drums sound like you're there, notes have just right decay, etc.

After doing several tests on order/pairings on various listening sessions, my preference goes like this: The ST-shaped EL32's perform better as powers, sounding a bit on the 'thin' side as drivers, and the brown-base 'rhythm master' Mullards shine the best as drivers; and of course these pair well together as well! (St EL32's as powers with Mullard EL32's as drivers).

In my case though my two EL32 powers are also aided by a quad of 6BL7 as exernally-heated powers, which I find gives just the right blend of warmth and opens up the soundstage even more for an exquisite and '4D' performance. Though I'm still not endorsing this method, still putting it through longer term testing. Oh and BTW in case anyones's wondering what those ferrite chokes are doing on my photo from the last page, it's because I noticed that sometimes these become necessary to reduce hum that's caused with multiple pairs of EL32's and/or EL12 on the same circuit as powers; though not to worry for all normal setups those are not required.


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## Scutey

Hi DL. 

You've nailed the differences between the various EL32 types, especially the Mullard straight bottle, for me the ST sound best as drivers and the Mullard, I have the CV1052, as powers, they seem to have elevated some of my other driver tubes to sound much better than with any other powers I have tried, my EL3N, Psvanes and Sylvania VT-99 in particular sing with the straight Mullard, to such an extent that my other power tubes seem almost redundant .


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## DecentLevi

Yeah it looks like the Mullard EL32 and CV1052 versions should be identical. I was recommending mine as drivers, with curved EL32's as powers but I see you like it the other way around. As systems / ears differ greatly, YMMV


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## Johnnysound (Jun 9, 2018)

Hi DL, very interesting your experiences with the EL32/CV1052/VT52 tubes !  I am waiting for a pair of Mullards brown base and of course adaptors from Mrs. Ling...now I think I should have ordered all four for the “whole thing”, we’ll see.  Anyway,  I initially saw  the CV1052 as a potentially great driver in the Euforia, being a highly accurate telecom tube, similar to the great C3G.  Then, I learned that it was designed to be used as a power tube as well, in a push pull configuration with another pair of CV1052, for a total of 7 watts.  (more than double the single output).  Sorry, I don’t know if the Euforia is designed this way, but it looks like this tube will probably sing  best in a driver/power quartet.  Hundred percent sinergy, maybe ?  And this is not the end of the ST vs straight discussion, of course, but I would use four identical tubes....just to be sure.


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## connieflyer

Just received the other 3 Tronix El32 and all working and sounding fine. All tubes in original boxes and in excellent condition. Seller did great job on packing and shipping.


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi DL, very interesting your experiences with the EL32/CV1052/VT52 tubes !  I am waiting for a pair of Mullards brown base and of course adaptors from Mrs. Ling...now I think I should have ordered all four for the “whole thing”, we’ll see.  Anyway,  I initially saw  the CV1052 as a potentially great driver in the Euforia, being a highly accurate telecom tube, similar to the great C3G.  Then, I learned that it was designed to be used as a power tube as well, in a push pull configuration with another pair of CV1052, for a total of 7 watts.  (more than double the single output).  Sorry, I don’t know if the Euforia is designed this way, but* it looks like this tube will probably sing  best in a driver/power quartet.  Hundred percent sinergy, maybe ?  And this is not the end of the ST vs straight discussion, of course, but I would use four identical tubes....just to be sure.*




Hi J. 
My straight-sided Mullard CV1052s (and adapters!) have only about 13 hrs on them as powers, so it's still very early days to come to any real conclusion, but I've a feeling that I'll be sticking with my four smoked glass ST CV1052!...(but things may possibly change with more time, of course!). Will give my final impressions later...and when I've been able to swap the straight-sideds with some more incoming STs (smoked), to allow for any possible differences due to adapter use as opposed to none...

ps. At the moment however, the straight-sided Mullards seem _ridiculous_ value-for-money...they are exceptional tubes...

pps. The power tubes in F-A's amps are connected in parallel, as opposed to push pull...



connieflyer said:


> Just received the other 3 Tronix El32 and all working and sounding fine. All tubes in original boxes and in excellent condition. Seller did great job on packing and shipping.



Very nice cf...will be very interested to hear how your own 4 identicals compare with a mixed configuration...in due course, naturally!


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## Johnnysound (Jun 13, 2018)

...


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## hypnos1 (Jun 13, 2018)

Hi guys.

Just a quick update on the straight-sided Mullard CV1052 vs (_smoked glass_) ST CV1052...with the former as _powers/output_...and *in my system*.

 After 48hrs burn-in (with short 'resting' periods) of the straights and adapters, my early suspicions have been reinforced - for me at least (and with gear/cables that now bring out even more tonal detail), my STs do indeed perform a notch or two higher. They present a 'fuller' sound, due to reproducing a greater tonal range and slightly better separation/placement. This was highlighted to a degree that surprised me especially, when listening to Loreena McKennitt's 'Beneath a Phrygian Sky' from her album 'An Ancient Muse'...which I use a good deal for assessment purposes. I have come to love this track particularly, not least because her voice 'breathes' as well as sings the words...and this magical (breathing) quality was almost totally absent with the straights as powers, compared to my STs. And for me, this alone is a determinant factor.

The use of adapters for them _may_ be partly to blame, but as I used the same UP-OCC wires as in my adapted tubes, I doubt this would account for such a big difference. I'll know for sure when my next lot of STs arrive, of course!

I must stress however, that I'm being _extremely_ fussy here...the straight-sided Mullards perform exceptionally well, and will grace any system...and cost relative peanuts lol!!  But with highly resolving gear (and depending upon headphones especially, of course), I would suggest trying to find - if possible! - the 'smoked glass' ST CV1052...I don't however know if there's any difference with the clear-glass EL32!!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

OK guys...for those interested, I have finished my experiments with the CV1052/EL32 tube.

Why?... Because, in my system, the 'smoked' glass (military) ST CV1052 (Mullard) performs a good bit better than the later straight-sided version.

After my experience with 2x straights as powers, I tried one straight as _driver_ - aided by one adapted smoked ST, with two STs as powers - and still I wasn't getting the same stellar performance...strike #2.
The final blow came today after receiving my other smoked glass ST CV1052s. I put 2 in my adapters as powers, driven by my 2x adapted ones, and I had final confirmation...even after just a few hours' burn-in.

For me, there's no contest whatsoever...in my system, the smoked glass STs deliver far more...specifically in tonal range; separation & placement; soundstage; emotional impact, to name just a few. It was like that first moment in hearing Euforia after Elise...there was a 'fullness' to the sound that simply wasn't there to the same degree before. 
When called for, voice is forward (especially female) such as to give more emotional involvement, but then backing vocals suitably positioned further away when necessary. In other words, positioning is reproduced more accurately _as originally intended by the studio engineer_...

Now then, I must qualify this by saying there was a fellow at CanJam London last year who _preferred _Elise to Euforia(?!)...so everyone has their own tastes lol!! ...no problem...
I must also repeat (sorry!) that Euforia will up her game in line with all improvements to the rest of the system, and I'm sure the $$$$ I've spent in this pursuit are helping in these new tubes' performance!! 
And so I beseech all once again - as I've been saying for a long while now! - to try and upgrade as much as possible one's primary source; DAC; headphones and cables. And certainly look to conditioning the (polluted!) mains electricity supply!...Euforia will thank you time and again for tackling as many of these areas as you can manage...not necessarily all at once lol!

Anyway, the most important thing is to keep _enjoying_ your amp...it isn't compulsory that you empty your wallet quite as much as I have this past year!...(but this hobby can indeed become a bottomless 'rabbit hole'...very quickly! )...CHEERS!...CJ


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## SnapperMusicFan

Hi All,

I have been experimenting with the smoked glass CV1052 in both Euforia and Elise, and the best combo so far is ST bottle shaped drivers and smoked glass powers or a quad of ST tubes. One thing I have noticed is that my Euforia's driver tubes no longer glow the same, the left tube is not as bright as the right, I have tried swapping tubes in pairs and left to right and there's definitely a difference across the amp, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the sound quality, is this something I should worry about?


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## mordy (Jun 15, 2018)

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have been experimenting with the smoked glass CV1052 in both Euforia and Elise, and the best combo so far is ST bottle shaped drivers and smoked glass powers or a quad of ST tubes. One thing I have noticed is that my Euforia's driver tubes no longer glow the same, the left tube is not as bright as the right, I have tried swapping tubes in pairs and left to right and there's definitely a difference across the amp, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the sound quality, is this something I should worry about?


Hi SMF,
If the tubes are a new pair and one glows less than the other it does not mean anything - could just be how the internals were mounted and assembled.
If they glowed the same and one changed I don't know what to make out of it. However, if they sound the same I don't think it is cause for concern.


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## connieflyer

Hello SMF, I have noticed similar results with the vt 52's that I am using.  It seemed like the glow has decreased on some of the foursome.  Remember also these tubes are almost seventy years old, and like Mordy said the difference in construction materials "could" add to this. I have about seventy hours on this foursome, and have noticed no difference in quantity or quality of sound.  As to whether it is a problem with your amp, that is something you might want to email Lukasz about.   If you are saying that say if the left driver tube is brighter than the right driver tube, and then you swap right for left and the left driver is still brighter, then I would not think it was the tube.  Voltage would have to be measured to see if a component value  has changed.  The fact that the sound is the same, shows to me, that what ever is causing it, it is not major at this time. I would take it up with Lukasz so that he is aware of it, and you are on record if anything else where to happen.  Never hurts to have a tech trail.


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## hypnos1

SnapperMusicFan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have been experimenting with the smoked glass CV1052 in both Euforia and Elise, and the best combo so far is ST bottle shaped drivers and smoked glass powers or a quad of ST tubes. One thing I have noticed is that my Euforia's driver tubes no longer glow the same, the left tube is not as bright as the right, I have tried swapping tubes in pairs and left to right and there's definitely a difference across the amp, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the sound quality, is this something I should worry about?



Hi SMF.

mordy and connieflyer have already given you very good answers...and as cf mentioned, a lot will depend on whether it happens to _different _tubes, as opposed to just the same one. Some tubes (of the same type) will often have a different glow, as stated. 

As this glow comes purely from the heater (anywhere else and you've got big problems!), try 'approved' tubes and see if the same thing happens...and if it does (with several tubes), then it would indicate something amiss with the amp's heater circuit, and would probably need looking at by F-A...(not very likely though!).

I personally would only be concerned if the tube's heater glowed _really_ bright...especially with these particular tubes. Or if the plate started to glow (very rare, thankfully), most probably indicating that the tube needs to be replaced _immediately!!
_
Hopefully it's just variation in certain tubes lol... 

Anyway SMF, getting back to your own findings re. this family of tubes, I see you like the 4x ST combo. Do you have any of the _smoked glass_ CV1052 at all? As I mentioned previously, my system much prefers this version, and I can't recommend it highly enough. I am more excited even than before, as one of my original 4 (not one of the 3 for £8!) was obviously not functioning 100%, despite _supposedly_ being NOS and measuring strong in all parameters (but no original packaging) - it has already developed serious problems and would have gone straight back, had I not adapted it lol! 
But now replaced by another (even using my own adapter, as opposed to adapting the tube directly), the sound is even _better_...and surpasses anything I've had before by a bigger margin yet!!...This is one very happy bunny, lol...

And so I'll post once again what folks who are interested in this tube family might want to keep their eyes open for...perhaps more will surface in time - I sincerely hope so!!  :

  

These are specifically for British military use originally (note the arrow etched in the glass), and in their 'cigar' wrapping, with original box...amazing condition for such an old tube. And the glass is 'smoked'...it would appear that this coloured tube performs rather better than the _clear_ ST EL32, and for me, much better than the later straight-sided version. But as usual YMMV!....GOOD LUCK!!...CJ


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## Johnnysound

Hi H1, very nice tubes !  And again, where in the world do you manage to get them ?  The best ST I found are clear glass tubes...On the other hand, I still have no clues on why a smoked tube may sound better than a clear one from the same factory/year, unless the dark glass indicates a special edition, or something like that.  A different batch/year or selected mil spec tubes make more sense, but in this type it looks like virtually all of them have military markings... any thoughts ?


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## connieflyer

Just to be clear, the Phillps Mini Watt St32, and Marconi Vt52 and the Tronix St 32 do not have military markings on them.  The CV 1052 has them but of the tubes I have they are the only ones with military marking on them. All seem to be made by Mullard  except the Canadian Marconi's.


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## hypnos1 (Jun 17, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1, very nice tubes !  And again, where in the world do you manage to get them ?  The best ST I found are clear glass tubes...On the other hand, I still have no clues on why a smoked tube may sound better than a clear one from the same factory/year, unless the dark glass indicates a special edition, or something like that.  A different batch/year or selected mil spec tubes make more sense, but in this type it looks like virtually all of them have military markings... any thoughts ?



Hi J.

As @connieflyer alluded, it would appear that of the *ST-shaped *tubes, only* smoked* ones (*CV1052*) have military markings.._._*clear* ST-shaped tubes marked '*EL32*' (no military markings) seem to be the 'commercial', non-military version. Having said that, the later _straight _CV1052 were again for military use, plus I have a pair of Pinnacle branded ST EL32s (again, no military markings) that are smoked lol!!...(which I haven't yet been able to compare to the ST military CV1052).

It would seem that dark internal colouring often indicates a better-performing tube - eg EL11 and 12 (Spezial); coated 6N7G (like cf's lovely Visseaux) and 6F8G; Tung Sol Black Glass, Round Plate 6SN7; NR73 (ECC31); (blue) coated FDD20 etc....but not always guaranteed!
And the same probably holds true for older vs later versions of the same tube...

But in all such cases, I'm sure any differences also depend (as I personally have found with each and every upgrade) upon the resolving ability (and quality) of the rest of the system lol!  

ps. It was sheer luck that I found the first 3 tubes...and even luckier when I asked the ebayer if he had any more, and he said he did lol!! But I haven't seen any of these since, alas...


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## Johnnysound (Jun 23, 2018)

Well,  for the moment I only have a pair of CV1052 Mullards as drivers, so I am not able to contribute  to the  allways interesting  discussion about the merits of straight vs. ST tubes, or clear vs. smoked glass ones.  I only can say with certainty that the CV1052 are terrific drivers in the Euforia, and  a gift for the price.

I tried a variety of powers and have to agree with DL: the CV1052 sounds splendid paired with the EL12 spezials, in my case vintage Teslas that are so good that I wonder if the TFKs would be any better.  (The top caps and pins of the Teslas are  rhodium plated,  a nice detail ).   Almost a tie with the very underrated RFT EL12 N, (maybe for being way cheaper)  that truly sing with the Mullards, and with some rythmic music I really enjoyed  the vivid, dynamic presentation  of the RFTs and its excellent bass.

And I am not praising the powers, only how they sound with the CV1052.    Even without proper burn-in, one of the very best drivers I have tried in the Euforia, not one that draws attention to itself,  but utterly quiet (a silent background) coupled with wide bandwidth, resolution and transparency, qualities that no doubt contribute to its wide, open, “3D” rendition.  So far, I prefer it over the TFK EL11 as a driver, and this is saying something...


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## Johnnysound (Jun 23, 2018)

...


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## DecentLevi (Jun 24, 2018)

Hey guys, I'm fixin' for some more international travel in a few days and will have to pack up my Euforia again... this will be one of my last posts for a while so thought I'd share a few discoveries.
As always, the below is all IMO based on my own hearing, perception and equipment so YMMV.

Having delved deep into a netherworld of untold sonic bliss with innumerable 8x combos on the Euforia in recent months (6x externally heated powers + 2 drivers), I came 'back down to earth' for a rare occasion today for single-tube per socket combos on the standard Euforia (as opposed to H1's super setup). Popping in EL32 ST's as powers + Mullard EL32's (curved + striaght), I was unfortunately met with a drastic downgrade in fidelity compared with what I've been hearing recently. 'Limp' would be the apt word here: dynamics that have much to be desired with not much 'snap' to the drums, and a fairly muddy rhythm and overall sound, yet FR was still quite well.

Keep in mind the above was EL32 ST + Mullard EL32. Swapping out the Mullards to EL32 + EL12 Spez I heard quite a sizeable improvement all across the spectrum - greatly improved detail, speed, 'snap' and immediacy. I did another comparison of ST shaped EL32 vs. straight form and both sounded excellent with EL12 Spez, the Mullard EL32 sounding a bit more rhythmic and subtlety more laid back. However, switching back to my previously noted all time favorite single-tube combo, things got even better. EL12 Spez (powers) + Valvo EL12 - now we're talkin' crisp transients, vivid mids, robust bass, excellent texture... a very resolving tone that can't do anything wrong almost regardless of music and gear; though a smidget on the lush side. Holding steady for a long time in 2nd place to this was EL12 Spez (powers) + EL12 Telefunken, the latter of which are more readily available but for me not quite as full in the low-end being somewhat brighter and perhaps not quite the same level of instrument separation. Having not tried a quad ST-shaped EL32, I can't tell whether or not it's better, but to me, I liked EL12 Spez + EL12 Valvo better than EL32 curved + EL32 straight.


 ​
PS on the above - the Mullard EL32's are still my top straight version and indeed have great synergy as drivers or powers, though for me they performed significantly better as part of a 'sextet' of powers; or single drivers with 6x of various powers.

Now onto perhaps the main standout of all: *6x EL32 + Valvo EL11*: This to me filled a void for the absolute sonic breakthrough I have always saught. Having been made aware that the 6x externally powered 6BL7 board from Xuling is a standard 6SN7 pinout, much of these recent months has seen the Euforia host a dizzying array of combos including any pairs of 2 and / or 4, OR 6 of any of the following classes: 6SN7, 6BL7, 6AS7, 6080, EL3N, EL11/12, EL32 and 6336 (only 2 of the latter), with a wide array of drivers including all of the above _excluding _6080 / 6AS7 and 6336, also including many 'miniature' 9-pin octals and 6N7. Care was taken to stop at signs of anything untoward, and luckily in the end my Euforia is still in top flight as I confirmed by internal inspection and of course listening.

After innumerable trials of rare combos - many of which yield astonishing performance, the 6x EL32 powers came out on top (though a few more post comparisons of other top setups are still pending). A few words to describe the pairing of 6x EL32 + Valvo EL11: super transparency _(if it's in the recording it will be there and it will sound exactly as indented),_ uncanny realism _(you may catch yourself stopping the music to look over your shoulder to find where a 'real' sound came from),_ seemingly infinite ability to handle complex passages & instrument separation, immediate transient response and fantastic handling of dynamics, ultra extended, liquid, and not too lush or euphonic all at the same time!!! My parents gave this a listen when stopping over yesterday: my Mom who is a non-audiophile said it sounds like she's in the recording studio and my step-dad seemed transfixed and not moving when giving it a listen _(do note that with any resolving system, recording / mastering quality and DAC plays no small role)_.
​
Here are a few things I discovered when trying multiple combinations of EL32:

Four sound slightly better than two, yet IMO a sound that left much be be desired, and somewhat bright (works as powers or drivers)
*Six sound exponentially better than two or four.* It's like putting together a choir of 6 that trained together all their lives, for a sound the sings beautifully together in a harmony that builds upon each other's strength in a grand unison!
CAVEAT: Theses powers as 6x are slightly 'bright' and are ultra-picky on drivers!!! Having cycled through all above mentioned classes of drivers I usually got a sound that while quite resolving was either too bright or not real enough sounding; with the SOLE EXCEPTION OF Valvo EL11. In 2nd place was Valvo EL12 but somehow the synergy here was modestly muddy and 'soft' compared to the Valvo EL11. These being somewhat rare tubes, I would say go with the EL3N for drivers with this or possibly an EL11 that is _wider _than the Telefunken or RFT versions such as Philips or Tunsgram EL11 for that much needed lower-end warmth for these particular powers.
Of course the above would require not only ordering one of Ms. X's 6x 6BL7 boards (for Elise) and pairing it with a 20AH, 6.3v transformer such as the Triad brand one that I have, but also pairings can vary widely depending on the external power itself... so the GOOD NEWS for folks out there who dare not tread on these 'externally powered' grounds is that 6x EL32 is in-spec for the Euforia *without *external power! At only 0.2Ah per EL32, the total comes out to a very modest 1.2Ah for 6x EL32, of its' normal reserve of 5Ah for powers with two standard 6AS7. The only thing is of course a 6x adapter would be required, which I'm sure somebody like Ms. X may be able to do, should any of you also want to try this.

If you're happy with 4x St EL32 or my favorite single-tube combo EL12 Spez + Valvo EL12, you'd have to weigh the value of taking that leap to a 6x power setup. In my extremely extensive testing though I would say the 6x EL32 setup yields a hefty 30-40% improvement in overall fidelity from any of my top single-tube pairings. However having not tried 4x ST shaped EL32, I can say this difference of sonic improvement from 2x straight + 2x ST EL32 is no small margin... I can also venture to say that _more than two_ ST shaped EL32 in a 6x power setup should bring further improvements yet!

Update later in the day: I just did a head-to-head with the first 2 photos vs. this 6x EL32 setup and confirmed my findings: The sound is strikingly different than the best single tube setup on my system. Words that popped into my mind with this comparison is a sound that is *much more transparent, effortless, smooth and a wide open holographic soundstage.*

A few* disclaimers / safety findings:*

6336 tubes: I do not recommend these with the Euforia, even externally powered to make up for the 5Ah current draw per tube. I had noticed a build-up of heat in an unusual location of the amp, on the base rather than the transformer with these. Careful examination shows that my amp luckily remains in perfect condition, however these tubes have the potential to damage internals over prolonged usage. FWIW, 6336 + quad EL32 powers with EL12 Spez drivers were on all accounts my favorite all-time combo with staggering performance, however due to the above risk these shall remain 'under lock & key'.
Compatibily of 6x EL32 as powers: I can say with utmost confidence that as long as your adapters are correct, there should be no cause for concern whatsoever about using 6 of these fine beasts as powers in the Euforia - that is, save for warning signs of any normal setup such as tube defects. After having tested many 'adventurous' combos I have come to know the warning signs exclusively well such as imbalance, distortion, hum, crackling and rare heat in unusual places. Being able to tell what the Euforia likes, I'm pleased to say she shows no signs whatsoever of discomfort with 6x of these, even with using these for prolonged (8hr. +) sessions; at least with my externally heated version there was not even the _slightest _hint of any of these signs, rather that darned amp sounded like a 'teleportation machine' 
Both the externally powered adapter and any multiple combos are not officially endorsed by the manufacturer Feliks Audio. The above is based only on personal experience, though a number of us have found positive results with prolonged testing of non-sanctioned adapters and with the EL series of tubes - with occasional exceptions.
Enjoy whatever you may choose - these are findings I thought better shared than kept secret.


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## connieflyer

Am trying a new configuration, the vt 52 as drivers and the GEC 6AS7's for powers. Very nice indeed. I was going to sell the GEC's also the GEC 6080's but might hold on to the 6AS7's for a bit.  I kind of like this combo.  Wanted to try a few more before the ST 32's from H1 get here.  Very interested in seeing for myself if the ST 32 dark glass are better than the others. From what H has found, I would not doubt it.  But for now am enjoying the GEC's again


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## Johnnysound (Jul 1, 2018)

Hi CF,  I went for a pair of Mullards CV1052 and only after that realized that the VT52 are Marconis made in Canada...in the mythology of tubes,  a true “M-O Valve” (Marconi-Osram) that made such  legends as the Genalex tubes.  Splendid pedigree,  a NOS Genalex KT77 or KT88 costs no less than $ 400  a piece...and was made by Marconi.  Legend or not, the VT52 cames from the same factory, and for us,  lucky ones, the cost is only a few dollars.

I also tested the similar CV1052 with several 6080s and 6AS7Gs (I do not have the famed GECs) with mixed results, and ended preferring my favorite sixties  6080 Mullards, (which anyway are close to the GECs as some people says)  the combo rendering a dynamic, extended, clearly defined sound,  as I expected from some of the best powers I have experienced in the Euforia.  However,  after  extended  listening,  I began to feel that perhaps  this was not the best sound I have heard from that same powers.  Incredible,  maybe a matter of synergy...

I should have said  before  that my impressions are with Euforia as a preamp driving an EL34 tube int/power amp,  a very different situation from  a “pure” headphone amp.  To begin with, the EL34s are naturally warm, lush sounding tubes with a lovely midrange, so a very neutral preamp is what you want, and the Euforia is just that.  With my dual SS amps,  probably a wider selection of tubes worked fine, but a tube amp is a different matter, particularly one with a great preamp section,  that was a fascinating challenge for the Euforia.  No need to say that I rolled the stock pre tubes (two each 12AX7 and 12AT7) for top notch ones.

Now you could hear Euforia against tough competition !!   It was In this particular setup that the CV1052 (EL32, VT52)  excelled as drivers, and so far maybe the synergy goes with the RFT EL12Ns, very clean,  transparent sounding, vivid  tubes coupled with this  driver, and with this particular amp.  Nothing wrong, really, with the 6080s, but the EL12Ns were more open,  expressive and musical.  Maybe because both drivers and powers are from the same family of  tubes ?    Who knows, the round plates are identical, only that the ones in the EL12N are 3 times bigger.  Nothing to do with SQ,  probably, but  I liked that, a true power tube in its proper position,  the drive and control a preamp needs.  Waiting for a quartet of ST Miniwatts that look really nice...


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## JazzVinyl

Hello DL...

I see your still enjoying the 6x power tube adaptor and external 20 amp 6.3 volt transformer to safely heat 6x powers in the FA amp.

Very nice, and a superbly detailed post.  Glad you have been on such a rich and fulfilling sonic journey.  I especially like hearing your mom and step dad are transfixed at the sound.  Makes you feel good when someone "not in the addiction" finds your setup fascinating and rewarding.

Take care of yourself on your international trip...don't take any wooden nickels 

Cheers!!


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## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Hi CF,  I went for a pair of Mullards CV1052 and only after that realized that the VT52 are Marconis made in Canada...in the mythology of tubes,  a true “M-O Valve” (Marconi-Osram) that made such  legends as the Genalex tubes.  Splendid pedigree,  a NOS Genalex KT77 or KT88 costs no less than $ 400  a piece...and was made by Marconi.  Legend or not, the VT52 cames from the same factory, and for us,  lucky ones, the cost is only a few dollars.
> 
> I also tested the similar CV1052 with several 6080s and 6AS7Gs (I do not have the famed GECs) with mixed results, and ended preferring my favorite sixties  6080 Mullards, (which anyway are close to the GECs as some people says)  the combo rendering a dynamic, extended, clearly defined sound,  as I expected from some of the best powers I have experienced in the Euforia.  However,  after  extended  listening,  I began to feel that perhaps  this was not the best sound I have heard from that same powers.  Incredible,  maybe a matter of synergy...
> 
> ...


Hi Johnnysound,
GEC bought Canadian Marconi in 1968, but it is unclear to me if GEC in England actually made tubes for Canadian Marconi. It seem more plausible that the Canadian tubes were made by Canadian GE.
Again, I am not sure of this information as it relates to the VT52 tubes - maybe Oskari can shed light on this.


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## Oskari

mordy said:


> Again, I am not sure of this information as it relates to the VT52 tubes - maybe Oskari can shed light on this.


The manufacturer was likely the Radio Valve Co. of Canada (RVC). This was a joint venture of Canadian GE and Canadian Marconi and made tubes for both.


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## mordy

Oskari said:


> The manufacturer was likely the Radio Valve Co. of Canada (RVC). This was a joint venture of Canadian GE and Canadian Marconi and made tubes for both.


Thanks


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Am trying a new configuration, the vt 52 as drivers and the GEC 6AS7's for powers. Very nice indeed. I was going to sell the GEC's also the GEC 6080's but might hold on to the 6AS7's for a bit.  I kind of like this combo.  Wanted to try a few more before the ST 32's from H1 get here.  Very interested in seeing for myself if the ST 32 dark glass are better than the others. From what H has found, I would not doubt it.  But for now am enjoying the GEC's again



Hi cf...once again, showing the marvellous variety of combos that our F-A amps can handle with aplomb - without the need for multi-adapters/transformers etc. etc.!! 

And @Johnnysound has also made a good point re. use as pre-amp, compared to headphones. Elise and Euforia were designed primarily for cans, of course, so this is probably the best source for assessment purposes. But the fact they perform so well as pre-amp is indeed an added bonus!  

I myself am still convinced that EL drivers have the best synergy with EL powers - which would also make sense, given they're both pentodes (triode-strapped in our case). 

And so it will be interesting to hear your impressions of the 4x ST smoked CV1052s, once they've had a bit more burn-in. One thing I did notice while testing them was that my previous suspicions have subsequently been confirmed re. the necessary (unfortunately) use of adapters, if not able to adapt the tubes oneself - ie. that in a highly resolving setup, they do indeed very slightly reduce a tube's performance...and this was using adapters with the best UP-OCC silver (one, and the other pure silver) plus copper wires, not PCB based lol. This was brought home to me especially after adapting the replacement for my tube that died, and that was obviously not ever functioning anywhere near 100% in the first place!

Mind you, this was in a system where I can notice the difference between different (good quality) RCA plugs on my UP-OCC interconnects...another good reason to dispense with them entirely!!  So perhaps I'm just being super-picky...

Whatever, the sound I'm now hearing definitely surpasses anything I've known before...going back to old favourite test pieces, I'm hearing details across the FR that I never knew existed - particularly with female voice, such as Loreena McKennitt; Barbra Streisand; Toyah Willcox; Joan Baez; Sarah Brightman; Mary Fahl; Sade et al. Much more so even than male voice, their vocalisation of letters such as 'p', 'd', 'h' - when close-miked, and almost part-whispered - has an added quality (nay, _frisson_) that I simply haven't noticed to the same degree before, and brings an extra magic to the performance. To do so without detriment to any other section of the frequency range is, IMHO, a very rare feat indeed...one which I will be focusing in on _very_ closely when I have the privilege of trying out their new 2A3 flagship in the months to come... (which, by the way, will also feature a STAX output to cater for electrostatic headphones, as well as SE and balanced...WOW! This is on line to be quite a monster amp, and one that  could well be a real giant-killer lol!!).


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## connieflyer

Well, went back and tried the VT52 again, and I do like them better than all the rest of my combo's  Also decide to try the Euforia as a preamp.  Used to use it that way in the past. Once I upgraded my receiver to an Anthem MRX 720, decided did not need to mess with success anymore.  Well, with the VT52 via my network server, through my Cambridge network player, then through the Euforia, and out to the Anthem, it was better.  I believe this to be the difference the Cambridge has made and like it very much.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, went back and tried the VT52 again, and I do like them better than all the rest of my combo's  Also decide to try the Euforia as a preamp.  Used to use it that way in the past. Once I upgraded my receiver to an Anthem MRX 720, decided did not need to mess with success anymore.  Well, with the VT52 via my network server, through my Cambridge network player, then through the Euforia, and out to the Anthem, it was better.  I believe this to be the difference the Cambridge has made and like it very much.



Hi cf.
Glad you've re-discovered Euforia's prowess as pre-amp...and upgrading your source/player will definitely have improved things! 

Interesting too, that you prefer the VT52s...(just you wait 'til you try the 4x 'smoked' ST1052s lol! ....but as usual, _objective_ opinions only please - I shan't be offended!!  (On which subject, there doesn't seem to be a single one of these tubes left on the planet?!! ...).


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## Johnnysound (Jul 7, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf.
> Glad you've re-discovered Euforia's prowess as pre-amp...and upgrading your source/player will definitely have improved things!
> 
> Interesting too, that you prefer the VT52s...(just you wait 'til you try the 4x 'smoked' ST1052s lol! ....but as usual, _objective_ opinions only please - I shan't be offended!!  (On which subject, there doesn't seem to be a single one of these tubes left on the planet?!! ...).



Hi H1,

Maybe they are difficult to find because the ST EL32 is being used in some very nice gear, mostly exotic power amps from Asian manufacturers, and also a few stunning preamps, like this one, top line from a Canadian firm.    There you are, a quartet of EL32 as drivers.  A unique preamp using KT120s as output tubes....please note that  the EL32 tubes are clear glass ones   (LOL)

The opinion of the designer about the EL32 tubes read as follows:

“Using the NOS Mullard EL32 (can also use VT52 / CV1052 / 6G6 / 6V6 / 6K6/ 6L6 / 6F6 / 6Y6..etc direct plug-n-play ) as front end stage, gives you the most warm and liquid 3D holographic sound stage with superb micro-details . Output stage use the super powerful KT120 (can also use VT52 / CV1052 / 6G6 / 6V6 / 6K6 / 6Y6 / 6F6 / 6L6 / 6550 / KT66 / KT77 / KT88 / KT99 / KT100 / EL34 / 5881 / 6CA7...etc direct plug-n-play ), which give very dynamics sound with extremely good control .”


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> Maybe they are difficult to find because the ST EL32 is being used in some very nice gear, mostly exotic power amps from Asian manufacturers, and also a few stunning preamps, like this one, top line from a Canadian firm.    There you are, a quartet of EL32 as drivers.  A unique preamp using KT120s as output tubes....please note that  the EL32 tubes are clear glass ones   (LOL)
> 
> ...



Hi J...that could indeed explain the scarcity lol! And if he'd used 'coated' ST tubes I'm sure he would wax lyrical even more!...just one clear (EL32) mixed with my other 3 coated, military CV1052s delivered slightly less overall performance, as with just one straight-sided CV1052..._in my system_ .

And he was spot on re. the holographic soundstage - I have never experienced such placement and separation before (without appearing 'disjointed')...uncanny lol. The same goes for detail, across the entire frequency range.

I cannot recommend this tube highly enough...and look forward to @connieflyer 's findings after decent burn-in (these ST tubes need much longer than the straights, for some strange reason!).

ps.  Re. clear vs coated tubes...the latter are supposed to benefit from better heat dissipation, with resultant increased tube life and greater stability/fewer detriments. But with these tubes running so cool, one would think this unnecessary lol! However, Mullard obviously had good reason for taking the trouble!! Plus, for military use, specs had to be of the highest order (sometimes 'ruggedised') and/or only the best of the production line were acceptable...I rest my case! ...CJ


----------



## Althalus

Johnnysound said:


> There you are, a quartet of EL32 as drivers. A unique preamp using KT120s as output tubes....please note that the EL32 tubes are clear glass ones (LOL)



Mmm tubes hard to find and then you need four! for drivers. And only 2 output tubes.
I think I skip this amp and look for an amp that needs only one driver tube (but can use up to 6 output tubes).


----------



## mordy

Althalus said:


> Mmm tubes hard to find and then you need four! for drivers. And only 2 output tubes.
> I think I skip this amp and look for an amp that needs only one driver tube (but can use up to 6 output tubes).


GOTL? I will be getting mine shortly.


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## UntilThen

mordy said:


> GOTL? I will be getting mine shortly.



Congrats Mordy. No more adapters required and you have more than enough tubes to experiment with. I have 3 pairs of EL11, 1 pair of EL12, 1 pair of EL12N and 2 pairs of EL12 spez. All NOS and NIB. Not interested in using them or selling them. I'll put them in a time capsule. 

It's been a long road of Darkvoice 336se, Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339, Ragnarok, Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and finally by June of 2019, I'll have my DNA Stratus. Then I'll bid farewell to a hobby that is richly rewarding but it's time to move on... back to making the garden grow again and my orchids.


----------



## hypnos1

Althalus said:


> Mmm tubes hard to find and then you need four! for drivers. And only 2 output tubes.
> I think I skip this amp and look for an amp that needs only one driver tube (but can use up to 6 output tubes).



Hi Althalus.

That is indeed a lot of drivers lol!... BUT I can understand it, if in a balanced configuration - as it will be in F-A's new 2A3 flagship soon . 

I personally would never consider a _single_ (double triode) driver (unless for a mono block!) - without separate L/R volume control, one is at the mercy of the the 2 triodes needing to be extremely well matched for good balance, especially as they are probably going to exhaust at different rates over time...NO THANKS! 

And as for 6 power tubes...well, if 2 are sufficient for the great DNA Stratus; Eddie Current etc. amps, then that's enough for me (or 4 for balanced)!...


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Congrats Mordy. No more adapters required and you have more than enough tubes to experiment with. I have 3 pairs of EL11, 1 pair of EL12, 1 pair of EL12N and 2 pairs of EL12 spez. All NOS and NIB. Not interested in using them or selling them. I'll put them in a time capsule.
> 
> It's been a long road of Darkvoice 336se, Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339, Ragnarok, Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and finally by June of 2019, I'll have my DNA Stratus. Then I'll bid farewell to a hobby that is richly rewarding but it's time to move on... back to making the garden grow again and my orchids.


Hi UT,
What about biking?


hypnos1 said:


> Hi Althalus.
> 
> That is indeed a lot of drivers lol!... BUT I can understand it, if in a balanced configuration - as it will be in F-A's new 2A3 flagship soon .
> 
> ...


HI h1,
Those amps that you mention, can they use the great 6336 5A power tubes?


UntilThen said:


> Congrats Mordy. No more adapters required and you have more than enough tubes to experiment with. I have 3 pairs of EL11, 1 pair of EL12, 1 pair of EL12N and 2 pairs of EL12 spez. All NOS and NIB. Not interested in using them or selling them. I'll put them in a time capsule.
> 
> It's been a long road of Darkvoice 336se, Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339, Ragnarok, Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, Glenn Super 9 OTL amp and finally by June of 2019, I'll have my DNA Stratus. Then I'll bid farewell to a hobby that is richly rewarding but it's time to move on... back to making the garden grow again and my orchids.


Hi UT,
What happened to biking?


----------



## Althalus

mordy said:


> GOTL? I will be getting mine shortly.


I know, I have to wait till september/oktober. 



hypnos1 said:


> I personally would never consider a _single_ (double triode) driver (unless for a mono block!) - without separate L/R volume control, one is at the mercy of the the 2 triodes needing to be extremely well matched for good balance, especially as they are probably going to exhaust at different rates over time...NO THANKS!


Maybe you are correct, but so far I see no one think this is negative. You only need to buy one good driver tube instead of two. But I keep the Euforia. 



hypnos1 said:


> And as for 6 power tubes...well, if 2 are sufficient for the great DNA Stratus; Eddie Current etc. amps, then that's enough for me (or 4 for balanced)!...


Agree too, but some cheap tubes are soso in pairs but better as four and wow as sextet. And when I see the adapters that people use to insert 4 or 6 output tubes on the Elise or Euforia, just to get the best music experience then I think that FA should think about an Elise/Euforia with the option to insert 6 output tubes (and of the transformer that can handle the power). With exception of the 6336, 6x5A is too much..... Unless you want to sit warm in the winter.


----------



## mordy

Althalus said:


> I know, I have to wait till september/oktober.
> 
> 
> Maybe you are correct, but so far I see no one think this is negative. You only need to buy one good driver tube instead of two. But I keep the Euforia.
> ...


Hi Althalus,
The GOTL can only handle two 6336 power tubes. The total current draw is 13A .
Hi h1,
A long time ago I asked FA if their 2A3 amp sounded better than the Elise and the answer was no - it just had more power to drive speakers. Don't know if this applies to their new planned amp compared to the Euforia.


----------



## Althalus

mordy said:


> The GOTL can only handle two 6336 power tubes. The total current draw is 13A .


I know Mordy, maybe I was not clear enough.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> What happened to biking?



It's happening again. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bicycle-fi.334563/page-263#post-14347392


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## hypnos1

Althalus said:


> I know, I have to wait till september/oktober.
> 
> 
> Maybe you are correct, but so far I see no one think this is negative. You only need to buy one good driver tube instead of two. But I keep the Euforia.
> ...



Hi again A...

There are indeed good amps about that use just one driver...but also those that use two. And folks, being very protective of their favourite amp, often keep quiet about problems encountered lol!  As I mentioned, the _potential_ for imbalance is real - just look at the readings (if provided!) of many (expensive) used top flight tubes...rarely are 2 triodes almost equal. So one can make his/her own conclusions...(depending on level of paranoia!! ).

This is in fact something that Feliks-Audio considered when designing Elise, as I had asked them for 2 drivers in the first place. After testing, they themselves preferred 2 as opposed to 1...especially to aid driving low-impedance headphones...(and I personally think the more balanced look to the amp is also a factor...I believe in aesthetics as well as good sound!! ).

Re. 6 power tubes...I agree this may well help cheap tubes, but there are several factors that might not appeal to everyone - eg. resultant amp *size* and *weight* (taking into account the need for a beefier trafo also), and the heat generated. In addition, many would rather stick with 2x top class tubes in the 6AS7G/6080 family (if staying with configured-for tubes). I personally much prefer the unorthodox EL12 Spezial pentode (triode-strapped) anyway... and my latest ST CV1052s give me all the WOW factor I could ask for lol! (plus an amp that runs barely warm to the touch...not to mention the most deathly silent background I have ever encountered...plus.......)

So it's definitely a case of 'horses for courses' methinks! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi Althalus,
> The GOTL can only handle two 6336 power tubes. The total current draw is 13A .
> Hi h1,
> A long time ago I asked FA if their 2A3 amp sounded better than the Elise and the answer was no - it just had more power to drive speakers. Don't know if this applies to their new planned amp compared to the Euforia.



Hi mordy.

I can't find an amp by these makers that uses the 6336 power tube, but EC's Zana Deux uses a similar (but Russian) 6C33C...another 'monster' tube, that also needs careful designing...and gets mighty hot lol!!

F-A's new flagship amp is going to be a totally different animal to their old speaker amp - pop Henryk is redesigning it from scratch (internally, with Michal looking to an external design that will make most other tube amps look very dated indeed lol!), and will be configured properly for both headphone _and_ speaker use (as of the present!)...which is rarely done - if ever - without compromise of some sort. And so this _should_ sound better than Euforia...it wouldn't be worth their while at all if it didn't! (The 2A3 tube is famous enough to pretty well guarantee it!). 
Needless to say, I can't wait to give it a trial...and post my own impressions here at head-fi as soon as I possibly can (but I'm sure far better qualified reviewers will also be eager to get their hands on it!!).


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## hypnos1 (Jul 13, 2018)

Hi guys...final update (from me!) on the 'smoked' Mullard ST CV1052.

After well over 100hrs' burn-in, and weeks of living with this tube (2 as drivers, 2 as powers), I can safely say that it has surprised me more than any other tube to date - including the magnificent mesh-plate EL11s driving the equally magnificent TFK EL12 Spezials.

But before final conclusions, I must repeat that with these particular EL tubes especially, any less time will *not* show them to their best...and significantly less will *not *give truly meaningful results (especially in a highly resolving setup - including top flight headphones lol!).

I never thought I'd come across a tube with the clarity and treble mastery of the C3g, which surpasses any 6SN7 you care to name. But this tube (C3g) can soon sound a bit too harsh in many systems, and for some ears. However, this Mullard can match the C3g for treble detail and extension, but without said possible unfortunate trait...instead, with a refined sweetness that isn't at all 'syrupy'.
It also reproduces mids far better, and a bass that surpasses (IMHO) the mighty ECC31 and FDD20...again seldom matched by any 6SN7. It does so in pure detail and sheer impact which, in combination with the supreme mids handling, give a fullness of sound that I have not seen equaled by any other combination I've tried over the years.

Related to this is a quality that I hadn't fully grasped until living with this tube a good while - ie. its deftness in keeping all this extra detail - across the entire frequency range - under precise control, even when crescendoing to loud climaxes. This wonderful dynamics handling was highlighted to me when I revisited favourite test tracks that had loud passages where I would normally have to reduce the volume somewhat. Unless due to poor recording, most times I now have no such need...with no loss whatsoever in 'slam' from such passages.
I now realise that this feat is made possible by the tube's mastery at detail separation and positioning, which it maintains at loud volumes, rather than everything merging in a less controlled way. Once again, no other previous combo has been able to do this with such precision and aplomb....all the while its 3D holographic soundstage remaining intact - a very hard thing to achieve IMO.

Needless to say, I simply cannot believe this tube (driving the same powers, at least!) performs to such a degree in an amp not specifically configured for it. And that it does so with the quietest background ever would also indicate no internal amp conflict whatsoever...(along with running the amp hardly even warm to the touch).

And so I can only recommend folks to _try_ and look out for these _smoked_ glass, Mullard military ST (shoulder-type/'coke bottle') CV1052. Perhaps they might just surface now and again...I can only hope so lol!  And I personally would recommend them as drivers driving the same as powers...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 20, 2018)

For those interested in F-A's new flagship 2A3 amp, a taster photo of its (near final) rear...showing the main functions. The front is obviously still top secret (but from Michal Feliks's early design concept, should be quite stunning!).

Note 3 inputs - both RCA  and XLR (fully balanced ). Line output is of both types also.

Note also the* option for electrostatic headphones (STAX output)*...there will apparently be several models available, depending on level of requirement (and price, no doubt!).

Will update further as soon as Lukasz can reveal...CHEERS...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> For those interested in F-A's new flagship 2A3 amp, a taster photo of its (near final) rear...showing the main functions. The front is obviously still top secret (but from Michal Feliks's early design concept, should be quite stunning!).
> 
> Note 3 inputs - both RCA  and XLR (fully balanced ). Line output is of both types also.
> 
> ...


That's a teasing pic h1!, looks substantially bigger than the Elise/Euforia, a STAX output is a real surprise, looking forward to seeing the front in all it's glory!.


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## Johnnysound (Jul 25, 2018)

...


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## Johnnysound (Jul 27, 2018)

Hi H1,  what a serious piece that prototype !
Please note that it has both balanced and single ended preamp outs.  A “secondary” feature ?  No way.....And I said this many times, sorry for repeating myself, but the preamp  outs of Elise/Euforia, equally, are not afterthoughts of the designer.  The new model simply confirms this...

They share the same circuit as the HP outs, yes, different from a conventional preamp,  much more powerful in terms of current, to drive difficult cans. Kind of a mini power amp acting as preamp.  An OTL one.   As good as it is with cans,  is the same as a preamp.  Solid state amps are simply dominated by the Euforia, It takes control at once and its sound prevails with a firm grip,  luckily I lowered the output of my NADs because the OTL was hitting really hard in dynamic terms.  It was, well, dangerous for my speakers... That’s the kind of preamp I like.  It can hit hard, and be refined at the same time...


----------



## aqsw

Is this new flagship a headphone amp/ preamp?, or is it a power amp, or an integrated amp. ? If a power or integrated, what are the watts per channel.?


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## JazzVinyl

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1,  what a serious piece that prototype !
> Please note that it has both balanced and single ended preamp outs.  A “secondary” feature ?  No way.....And I said this many times, sorry for repeating myself, but the preamp  outs of Elise/Euforia, equally, are not afterthoughts of the designer.  The new model simply confirms this...
> 
> They share the same circuit as the HP outs, yes, different from a conventional preamp,  much more powerful in terms of current, to drive difficult cans. Kind of a mini power amp acting as preamp.  An OTL one.   As good as it is with cans,  is the same as a preamp.  Solid state amps are simply dominated by the Euforia, It takes control at once and its sound prevails with a firm grip,  luckily I lowered the output of my NADs because the OTL was hitting really hard in dynamic terms.  It was, well, dangerous for my speakers... That’s the kind of preamp I like.  It can hit hard, and be refined at the same time...





Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1,  what a serious piece that prototype !
> Please note that it has both balanced and single ended preamp outs.  A “secondary” feature ?  No way.....And I said this many times, sorry for repeating myself, but the preamp  outs of Elise/Euforia, equally, are not afterthoughts of the designer.  The new model simply confirms this...
> 
> They share the same circuit as the HP outs, yes, different from a conventional preamp,  much more powerful in terms of current, to drive difficult cans. Kind of a mini power amp acting as preamp.  An OTL one.   As good as it is with cans,  is the same as a preamp.  Solid state amps are simply dominated by the Euforia, It takes control at once and its sound prevails with a firm grip,  luckily I lowered the output of my NADs because the OTL was hitting really hard in dynamic terms.  It was, well, dangerous for my speakers... That’s the kind of preamp I like.  It can hit hard, and be refined at the same time...



Hello Johnnysound...

Speaking of preamp outs...

Here is something to try:  Use an adapter cord to go from the HP out to RCA on your FA HP amp to feed your NAD speaker amp, and see if it sounds different that using the RCA outs on the back of the amp....


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## hypnos1 (Jul 27, 2018)

aqsw said:


> Is this new flagship a headphone amp/ preamp?, or is it a power amp, or an integrated amp. ? If a power or integrated, what are the watts per channel.?



Hi aqsw...long time no hear! ...hope all is well with your nice gear. And yourself, of course!...

F-A's new flagship is going to be quite something, to be sure...hopefully not stratospherically priced! (Might just find it impossible to return/send on once it graces my rack lol!!!).

As can be seen from the back, it will have THREE inputs - both balanced XLR and SE - and both also for line out. As it also has a  Neutrik 'Speakon' output for speakers, this behemoth will therefore be a headphone amp; an integrated amp; and WITH preamp functionality... PLUS, as an option, STAX output for electrostatic hps!!...(not many of these animals about, methinks ).

It will have a specially commissioned transformer, which will also perform output duties...this is therefore not an OTL amp...(sorry @Johnnysound !)...but such amps are supposed to drive low-impedance cans better anyway lol! As yet, no specs - such as WPC - are available, I'm afraid. But more info should be forthcoming quite soon...along with a view of the front - also anticipated by @Scutey ...not to mention @connieflyer and myself (I hope it doesn't stray too far from Michal Feliks's early (top secret!) design concept, that I was privileged to have a glimpse of some time back, and which really surprised me...in the best way possible, I must add).

And so all in all, this should be a VERY interesting release by Feliks-Audio, and which I'm sure will attract some _serious_ interest from _serious_ hi-fiers lol!...BFN...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Jul 28, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Johnnysound...
> 
> Speaking of preamp outs...
> 
> Here is something to try:  Use an adapter cord to go from the HP out to RCA on your FA HP amp to feed your NAD speaker amp, and see if it sounds different that using the RCA outs on the back of the amp....



Hi JV,  the experiment you suggest would be a VERY interesting one...think I have some spare plugs around and making a proper adaptor should be easy (or even easier getting an adaptor from pro audio stores).  I am assuming both HP and pre outs share the same basic circuit,  based on the very sparse info  provided by FA at the time when Elise was launched.  Keep in mind that Elise was inspired by the LD mk III-IV models, that were designed  with identical pre and HP outs.  Having said this, I am no expert, so the experiment will tell if they sound the same... or not.  Will do it soon...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Johnnysound said:


> Hi JV,  the experiment you suggest would be a VERY interesting one...think I have some spare plugs around and making a proper adaptor should be easy (or even easier getting an adaptor from pro audio stores).  I am assuming both HP and pre outs share the same basic circuit,  based on the very sparse info  provided by FA at the time when Elise was launched.  Keep in mind that Elise was inspired by the LD mk III-IV models, that were designed  with identical pre and HP outs.  Having said this, I am no expert, so the experiment will tell if they sound the same... or not.  Will do it soon...



Sounds good, Johnnysound, I look forward to hearing about your results.

Cheers!


----------



## 2359glenn

This looks like copying the name
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eufonika-m....m570.l1311.R4.TR5.TRC0.A0.H0.X6n13.TRS0.TSS0


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## JazzVinyl

2359glenn said:


> This looks like copying the name
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eufonika-model-H7-tube-headphone-amplifier-6N1P-6N13S/192336388318?hash=item2cc82460de:g6UAAOSwTQtZ5aTi&_sacat=0&_nkw=6n13s+tube&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R4.TR5.TRC0.A0.H0.X6n13.TRS0.TSS0



And look where it is located:

Item location: Warszawa, Poland


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## Johnnysound (Jul 30, 2018)

Hi H1, you said dark glass ?   Look at these brown base beauties...really hard to find, after a long search I only found a single pair.  The second “dark glass” pair I am waiting to arrive are black base  (last available from another UK seller) and while also Mullards, I am not sure if military or “civilian” version.  I suspect both are more or less the same tubes...


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## connieflyer

Those are some great looking tubes. Nice score, these tubes are getting very hard to locate. But very well worth the effort.


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## hypnos1 (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1, you said dark glass ?   Look at these brown base beauties...really hard to find, after a long search I only found a single pair.  The second “dark glass” pair I am waiting to arrive are black base  (last available from another UK seller) and while also Mullards, I am not sure if military or “civilian” version.  I suspect both are more or less the same tubes...



Well done J...they do indeed look very nice - and hopefully you find they _sound_ just as nice lol! But please remember they need long burn-in to reach their best...

I too have a pair of 'dark glass' EL32s (Pinnacle branded Mullards), but haven't yet been able to compare them with the military versions, which are marked 'CV1052' and have the arrow marking, denoting for (British) military.

I would imagine they do sound about the same, but as you know, mil versions usually have to conform to stricter specifications...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting the new Felix amp. I heard the MalValve 22 tube monster at Munich HiEnd and it was very good, and powered both stats and planers. But I would rather go only planers or only electrostatics. IMO the needs of stats is high voltage (very high) and I can't imagine a perfect mix between the two without either compromise or wasted budget. But having not heard this amp or seem the specs or price.....


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## hypnos1 (Aug 2, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting the new Felix amp. I heard the MalValve 22 tube monster at Munich HiEnd and it was very good, and powered both stats and planers. But I would rather go only planers or only electrostatics. IMO the needs of stats is high voltage (very high) and I can't imagine a perfect mix between the two without either compromise or wasted budget. But having not heard this amp or seem the specs or price.....



Hi a59.

It would indeed be very interesting to see just how well it performs (when it arrives!) with the STAX option also chosen...there will apparently be several models to choose from in fact. But I myself will be testing with my Beyer T1s (v1), transformed by a UP-OCC solid silver and copper replacement cable...not interested in stats lol! So more extensively-equipped (and qualified) reviewers will have to do the honours lol!


----------



## Johnnysound

hypnos1 said:


> Hi a59.
> 
> It would indeed be very interesting to see just how well it performs (when it arrives!) with the STAX option also chosen...there will apparently be several models to choose from in fact. But I myself will be testing with my Beyer T1s (v1), transformed by a UP-OCC solid silver and copper replacement cable...not interested in stats lol! So more extensively-equipped (and qualified) reviewers will have to do the honours lol!



Hi again H1!  From the few pics available it looks certain that the new FA beast is both a top HP amp, and a full function preamp.  The presence of single ended, AND balanced pre outs is telling...nobody will bother to install balanced outs it the thing is not intended to be, also, a high end preamp.  Anyway,  Stax cans do require a powerful tube preamp  to work,  and the top ones I just saw look more like power amps than preamps, using 4xEL34s for example,  (the same as my Jolida in its standard config, that can pump easily 65 watts/channel).   Maybe a lot of overkill there, but who knows, surely the new FA will be very different from previous models...


----------



## connieflyer

, I certainly hope it will be different, very different. I don't want more of the same I want something different something better and I know it's going to cost but that's just part of playing the game can hardly wait


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi again H1!  From the few pics available it looks certain that the new FA beast is both a top HP amp, and a full function preamp.  The presence of single ended, AND balanced pre outs is telling...nobody will bother to install balanced outs it the thing is not intended to be, also, a high end preamp.  Anyway,  Stax cans do require a powerful tube preamp  to work,  and the top ones I just saw look more like power amps than preamps, using 4xEL34s for example,  (the same as my Jolida in its standard config, that can pump easily 65 watts/channel).   Maybe a lot of overkill there, but who knows, surely the new FA will be very different from previous models...



Hi J.

As you and cf say...VERY different from previous models lol!...

I agree also about both balanced and SE preamp out...not to mention the option to have STAX output. And don't forget this will also be an amp for speakers - a beast indeed!! I don't know much about that strange-looking new Neutrik 'Speakon' connector for speakers...shall have to get making an adapter for my bananas (unless F-A are going to include one with the amp - yet another question I'll be putting to Lukasz when the time comes...plus others that folks may want answered...).

F-A really are pulling out all the stops with this model (and its variants). And although it may well be beyond my own purse(?!!), I'm looking forward to sitting this on my rack more so than pretty well any other amp I can think of...for both its looks (a welcome departure from the 'norm'), and what it can (hopefully) deliver......



connieflyer said:


> , I certainly hope it will be different, very different. I don't want more of the same I want something different something better and* I know it's going to cost but that's just part of playing the game* can hardly wait



Hey cf...you bent on bankrupting me lol? My juices are already flowing more than I'd anticipated!! I really thought I'd finished this 'game' of ours with Euforia in my current setup - and in a way, I'll be rather upset if this new model trounces it. So mixed feelings, to be sure. But I've a horrible feeling F-A are gonna have to send in the bailiffs to retrieve it, once it graces my threshold!!


----------



## connieflyer

Well h, I have realized for a while now, that you can never ever catch up to the latest and greatest! If this amp turns out to be everything they say, and is verified by you, I may just take a crack at it. I know it's not going to come cheap, but then if it was, it would be worth only what you pay for it, so there are definite possibilities with this amp. One stop shopping so to speak. Look forward to hearing your review and your thoughts.


----------



## aqsw

quick question H1.
If I am going to use the new FA amp  as a pre amp.
Does it have a remote control?


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> quick question H1.
> If I am going to use the new FA amp  as a pre amp.
> Does it have a remote control?



Hi aqsw....as far as I know it doesn't. If I remember correctly, many hi-end manufacturers aren't too keen on such _possibly _noise-inducing features? (But I might be wrong lol...perhaps it's a cost thing?!)....

And as an aside, just to prove this hobby of ours _can_ send you crazy (or perhaps it's our recent crazy heatwave!)...ie., even though I may well not be able to afford the new amp, I've just ordered 4 NOS 2A3 tubes that _look_ as though they could possibly have been made by RCA, and for _relatively_ small $$$. If they do indeed turn out to be RCAs (or similar), then they should prove a very interesting comparison with the Chinese tubes that will no doubt come as stock, and perhaps be a better indicator for those who may be interested in the amp, and who may well already have some NOS 2A3s that they prefer. And with any luck, I should be able to at least get my money back if I have to part with the amp lol... ...

ps. Still waiting with (increasingly) eager anticipation for more news from Lukasz...and keeping fingers crossed that they don't encounter any final hurdle mishaps!!


----------



## aqsw

If I have to get up out of my couch to turn the volume up or down, I will  probably just keep the Euphoria. At my age (65), not sure if I would hear the difference  anyways.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> If I have to get up out of my couch to turn the volume up or down, I will  probably just keep the Euphoria. At my age (65), not sure if I would hear the difference  anyways.



65, aqsw?...still a spring chicken lol!... I'm 68 and can still hear the difference between different RCA plugs on the same (good) IC cable, so there's still plenty of hope for you, mon ami 

I know you have a really good DAC, but an invaluable feature of my Hugo2 is that its hp volume (and line out vol/level) _is_ remotely controllable...which contradicts somewhat my previous statement!!...perhaps due to being rather different/unique(?!) And so I can use this to control the amp's volume, of course..._wunderbar!!!_ 

And I'm pretty sure there will be quite a noticeable difference coming from a fully balanced, 2A3-based amp with output transformer lol!...I would sincerely hope so!! 

Cheers and g'night...CJ...


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 11, 2018)

aqsw said:


> quick question H1.
> If I am going to use the new FA amp  as a pre amp.
> Does it have a remote control?



This piece would be, absolutely  (among other virtues) a killer preamp.  2A3 are directly heated triodes (DHT) regarded as the ultimate in transparency and resolution ...but very difficult to implement properly in a functional amp as I read.  Prone to hum, hard to drive, low power...and so on.  That’s why 2A3 amps are so rare, only a few high end pieces.  Now if FA took this quite exotic approach, maybe they have solved such problems ...

And only bits of info about it, but H1 said it has also speaker outputs...not a feature,  this thing is a full power amp.   And an HP amp, and a top featured preamp.  In short, kind of a super integrated amp.  With 2A3s, I bet around 8 to 15 watts/ch output at most, you will need at least  98-100 db (or more) efficient speakers...nirvana.  (And not that expensive, check Tekton speakers...)

As I see it, this component is meant to be used primarily with speakers.  Spk out is never a secondary feature in audio, and with this type of tubes we can safely assume that the power out required a lot of design work for FA.   Will be world class with cans, of course, and as a preamp, as much as I like tubes, I suspect it will make your SS gear sing as never before.   Really interesting piece, but it will be seriously expensive, no doubt...it looks like the very top of the FA line.  Thankfully, H1 surely will manage to obtain a big discount to all of us (LOL)


----------



## Scutey

If H1 could get us all a big discount I'd recommend him for a knighthood!.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 11, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> This piece would be, absolutely  (among other virtues) a killer preamp.  2A3 are directly heated triodes (DHT) regarded as the ultimate in transparency and resolution ...but very difficult to implement properly in a functional amp as I read.  Prone to hum, hard to drive, low power...and so on.  That’s why 2A3 amps are so rare, only a few high end pieces.  Now if FA took this quite exotic approach, maybe they have solved such problems ...
> 
> And only bits of info about it, but H1 said it has also speaker outputs...not a feature,  this thing is a full power amp.   And an HP amp, and a top featured preamp.  In short, kind of a super integrated amp.  With 2A3s, I bet around 8 to 15 watts/ch output at most, you will need at least  98-100 db (or more) efficient speakers...nirvana.  (And not that expensive, check Tekton speakers...)
> 
> As I see it, this component is meant to be used primarily with speakers.  Spk out is never a secondary feature in audio, and with this type of tubes we can safely assume that the power out required a lot of design work for FA.   Will be world class with cans, of course, and as a preamp, as much as I like tubes, I suspect it will make your SS gear sing as never before.   Really interesting piece, but it will be seriously expensive, no doubt...it looks like the very top of the FA line.  Thankfully, H1 surely will manage to obtain a big discount to all of us (LOL)



Hi J.

You have highlighted just how F-A's new flagship amp is _potentially_ a real giant killer - more so than I myself have to date (not wishing to appear _too_ biased in their favour lol!).

And given it will have FOUR tubes per channel, as opposed to Yamamoto's much lighter-equipped/powered A08 (2.5W), for example, I suspect it will be able to drive not-quite-so-efficient speakers with ease. Plus, for those so inclined, the (extra cost) option to drive electrostatics is pretty rare and unexpected...not to mention attractive. And the presence of a separate switch for this function indicates - to me at least - that there should be no detrimental effect soundwise on/from the 'standard' output.

And yes, to tame the DHT 2A3 _properly_ is no mean feat, but reaps rewards when achieved. That pop Henryk has in the past produced an amp using this tube bodes well, and I have indeed (cheekily) asked Lukasz to ensure there isn't any hum with the new one! Whether they'll be able to run to UP-OCC wire (as per the $15,000 WA33 'Elite' hp amp) within their costings is another request that I truly hope they can manage......




 Scutey said:


> If H1 could get us all a big discount I'd recommend him for a knighthood!.



Hi S...don't know about your and J's _big _discount, but I will certainly try to squeeze at least _something _out of Lukasz for current Euforia (and Elise) owners! Will keep y'all informed...as and when ...CHEERS...Sir... 'What (ask @Oskari !)-a-lot' !!......

Edit :  ps. On the subject of cost, may I remind folks that countries outside the EU receive the massive benefit of 23% tax reduction...which, even if faced with a US 15% Sales Tax for example, is FAR more generous than we here in the UK get. If we want anything from the US (or China/Japan/Hong Kong), we don't just get slammed with - nay _robbed of!_ - any of their own taxes, but then also the iniquitous home-grown 'Value-Added-Tax'...ie. VAT.... Plus 'Customs Handling Duties', just to add insult to injury!!  Hence, US-made products are pretty well a no-go!...


----------



## Scutey

Hi S...don't know about your and J's _big _discount, but I will certainly try to squeeze at least _something _out of Lukasz for current Euforia (and Elise) owners! Will keep y'all informed...as and when ...CHEERS...Sir... 'What (ask @Oskari !)-a-lot' !!......

Edit : ps. On the subject of cost, may I remind folks that countries outside the EU receive the massive benefit of 23% tax reduction...which, even if faced with a US 15% Sales Tax for example, is FAR more generous than we here in the UK get. If we want anything from the US (or China/Japan/Hong Kong), we don't just get slammed with - nay _robbed of!_ - any of their own taxes, but then also the iniquitous home-grown 'Value-Added-Tax'...ie. VAT.... Plus 'Customs Handling Duties', just to add insult to injury!!  Hence, US-made products are pretty well a no-go!...

You make a very good point about VAT, buying from the US can sadly be a deal breaker, I did seriously think about the Woo Audio WA6 but when factoring in the dreaded tax it killed that idea, same also with tubes, there's been countless times when I've held off because of it.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> ...CHEERS...Sir... 'What (ask @Oskari !)-a-lot' !!......


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 12, 2018)

Oskari said:


>



"Sir Lancelot" would have been _so_ much more chivalrous, mon cher ami...but your (as usual) mastery of brevity is a shining example to us all lol! ...(but one I myself shall never be able to master alas...obviously!!)....CJ


----------



## connieflyer

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J.
> 
> You have highlighted just how F-A's new flagship amp is _potentially_ a real giant killer - more so than I myself have to date (not wishing to appear _too_ biased in their favour lol!).
> 
> ...


You did an excellent job at discounts last time with Euforia, now you have to up your game and do it again!  Bigger amp, bigger price, bigger discount!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> You did an excellent job at discounts last time with Euforia, now you have to up your game and do it again!  Bigger amp, bigger price, bigger discount!



Shall certainly do my best cf...WISH ME LUCK!!!...


----------



## connieflyer

But of course, may need more luck this time.  Sounds like a very expensive undertaking.  Perhaps we could share one.  You could use if for the first six months, making sure any bugs are worked out, then I could take it for........


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> But of course, may need more luck this time.  Sounds like a very expensive undertaking.  Perhaps we could share one.  You could use if for the first six months, making sure any bugs are worked out, then I could take it for........



Hmmmm...perhaps a 'loaner' program(me) would be more successful, cf....after 6 months (if I've lasted that long), I'm afraid you'd have to kill me for it lol! 

And as I doubt said 'loaner' is even in the ballpark (wouldn't blame them actually - fraught with problems), looks like we could both be bankrupt!! ...sshhh, don't tell the better half I'm even thinking about it...PLEASE!...


----------



## connieflyer

Would never reveal such an intent!  Hope they let out some more news soon, crowd is losing interest, I am afraid. Need updating as to status of project to keep interest up


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Would never reveal such an intent!  Hope they let out some more news soon, crowd is losing interest, I am afraid. Need updating as to status of project to keep interest up



Hi cf.

Hoping for more update on progress soon. I would imagine things are not happening too fast - this is one massive project for anyone, especially a relatively small outfit like F-A. And Lukasz has stressed more than once that they want to make sure everything is just right before showing to the public...and I don't really blame them, given this must compete with some _seriously_ good competition!

So I hope interest will remain...and which I'm sure will burgeon once I can introduce it to the 'Summit-fi' forum. But it will be shown here first, of course......

Waiting in eager anticipation....


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 14, 2018)

Well as long as F-A can keep their new flagship amp under $13,000,000,000.00 then I think we're all good for it... I've got a feeling we're all much more wealthy than we let on with all our exotic tube acquisitions. 

Speaking practically however, I'm not really a fan of multiple inputs, favoring a simple cable swap when I want to change sources rather than the potential of loss of purity that may result in the input signal getting spread thin over too many parallel components. And for me, I'd like my next tube amp to be perhaps no larger than 2-3x the size of the Euforia, though time will tell.

Germany was interesting but a bit more public smoking than I can take - off to Romania tomorrow starting with Bucharest. Love that Mediterranean food and beaches, for starters. Hamburg was my favorite city.

Berlin



 

 


Darmstadt
​


Hamburg


----------



## connieflyer

Nice pictures


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @DecentLevi , looks like you're having a grand time with the 'Grand Tour'...but severely limits your quality listening time alas! 

Interesting you don't like multiple amp inputs...most comments/complaints are that there aren't enough lol!! As for myself, I must admit I prefer a single also - no great hardship to plug/unplug IMHO!  Plus, multiple inputs = multiple ICs, and when using really good cables (including good connectors), this can soon become _extremely _expensive!! (Mind you, frequent plugging and unplugging will gradually wear away any gold plating on the plugs and sockets lol!!).

However, if each input is switchable, I would suspect there shouldn't be too much (if any) 'dilution' of the source signal?...

And it will indeed be VERY interesting to see what price (strato?!)sphere F-A manage to approach...but I suspect it will be really competitively priced, given its amazing functionality (I certainly hope so!).

Enjoy the rest of your tour...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Aug 17, 2018)

At last the four “dark glass” ...
H1 said that a good burn in is mandatory,  of course, only that these tubes run so cold that they will never burn (LOL).    A very transparent, revealing sound.  So far, the four tubes together sound very special and do have well defined bass & dynamics. Lots of of air and space, over a really silent background...maybe because of its very low power consumption ?   Interesting theory.

And speaking of tubes...for the power amp I finally settled (for now) with the Genalex Gold Lion KT-77s (reissues) driven by Brimar 13D9s (ECC81) and Sylvania 5751s WA (black plates triple mica sqr getter from early  fifties).  Nice match with the preamp.  The Sylvanias work only on integrated mode  (and are superb preamp tubes BTW) a quite interesting contrast with the sound of the Euforia...


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## hypnos1 (Aug 18, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> At last the four “dark glass” ...
> H1 said that a good burn in is mandatory,  of course, only that these tubes run so cold that they will never burn (LOL).    A very transparent, revealing sound.  So far, the four tubes together sound very special and do have well defined bass & dynamics. Lots of of air and space, over a really silent background...maybe because of its very low power consumption ?   Interesting theory.
> 
> And speaking of tubes...for the power amp I finally settled (for now) with the Genalex Gold Lion KT-77s (reissues) driven by Brimar 13D9s (ECC81) and Sylvania 5751s WA (black plates triple mica sqr getter from early  fifties).  Nice match with the preamp.  The Sylvanias work only on integrated mode  (and are superb preamp tubes BTW) a quite interesting contrast with the sound of the Euforia...



Hi J...glad you're discovering the splendour of these 'smoked' glass EL32/CV1052 tubes...just wait 'til they've burned in some more! And yes, 'burn' does indeed seem a strange term, given how cool they run. And yes again, I'm sure this also helps give the most deathly quiet background of any tube I've ever personally tried.

And on this particular tube subject, I'm glad to say that the 'coated' tube labelled 'EL32' is every bit as good as the military version ST ("coke bottle") CV1052 (even though the latter presumably 'measured' better, despite obviously coming off the same Mullard production line!)....having just adapted two 'Pinnacle' branded ST EL32s. And to add the cherry on top, I decided to (well, was almost _forced_ to with the first one!) remove the top metal cap and thereby gain direct access to the tube's wire.

After (very carefully!) cleaning said wire, I made direct wire to wire contact with my new (UP-OCC) wires before soldering, just to see if my adopted mantra "the best connector is _*no *_connector" might bring further benefit still (which is why I already do this with the pin wires)....Result?...Well, after the (expected) initial less-than-sparkling performance - 2 dimensional and smaller tonal range etc. - things began to get very interesting indeed. And after 40+ hrs burn-in, with cooling off periods in between each 4-5hr session, I still can't believe the improvement...even compared to tubes without this top cap_ direct_ wire connection (but still with the wires connected straight to the metal cap, rather than via the usual connector, as with conventional adapters).

To cut a long(ish!) story short(er), improvements in performance are across the entire board, and not just in one or two small areas. This is the case with all my favourite testing tracks I've tried so far : particularly in bass impact; extension; tonal detail across the entire FR; balance, control and dynamics handling. Add to this the most exquisite delivery of delicate treble, such as splash decay and triangle/chimes, and this simple(?!!) manoeuvre has taken me greatly by surprise.

Out of interest, I also decided to see what this 'mod' would do for a couple of tracks that I knew had potential, but have never really raved about : a VERY heavily engineered original "All by myself", by Eric Carmen and a not-quite-so-'engineered' "No more the fool" by Elkie Brooks. Well, all I can say is that I've never heard them sound so good. Despite the recording engineers working overtime, there's now a depth and tonal range to their voices that I never fully appreciated before, and want to listen to these tracks a good few times more lol! ...count me even_ more _amazed by these ST EL32/CV1052 tubes...

ps...Evidently, the fact that this top wire carries the initial signal must be the cause of such a result...and further reinforces my belief that sadly, for most folks, having to rely on the presence of _so_ many connectors throughout one's entire system is degrading final performance to a level that is far greater than most ever realise...

pps. I must, however, state once more that as with all such triode-strapped pentodes, there may be the occasional unlucky soul whose mains and RFI/EMI gremlins-cursed environment might possibly bring a certain distortion to their performance, if not downright bad interference issues. But fortunately, most folks are not so cursed to _too_ great a degree!

ppps. Your Jolida amp looks quite the business, J...would love to hear how your whole system sounds next to F-A's new flagship amp, when it surfaces......are you game, mon ami?!! ...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Aug 18, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J...glad you're discovering the splendour of these 'smoked' glass EL32/CV1052 tubes...just wait 'til they've burned in some more! And yes, 'burn' does indeed seem a strange term, given how cool they run. And yes again, I'm sure this also helps give the most deathly quiet background of any tube I've ever personally tried.
> 
> And on this particular tube subject, I'm glad to say that the 'coated' tube labelled 'EL32' is every bit as good as the military version ST....
> 
> ppps. Your Jolida amp looks quite the business, J...would love to hear how your whole system sounds next to F-A's new flagship amp, when it surfaces......are you game, mon ami?!! ...CJ



Come on !  that would be a very unfair contest, given the price difference !!  Your “mystery” amp is revealed bit by bit, now we know it has EIGHT 2A3 tubes (any other tube around ?)  so as you said power will be more than enough for “normal” speakers, say 88 to 92 db/m.  I am guessing around 30 w/ch, but these are “tube watts”  which in real life are twice as powerful as SS watts.


Still guessing,  and watching some other super fancy HP amps capable of driving electrostatics, I am now convinced that the new FA beast is essentially an all out assault on electrostatic cans (and on the way all other cans).  A rare breed,  and  IMHO this one is more interesting than others because it features, also, both preamp and spk outs, that are not secondary, but  an effort to fully exploit the 2A3 capabilities...
If you send to me one of these,  I certainly will compare it to my gear, and report the results in no time....cheers !


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Come on !  that would be a very unfair contest, given the price difference !!  Your “mystery” amp is revealed bit by bit, now we know it has EIGHT 2A3 tubes (any other tube around ?)  so as you said power will be more than enough for “normal” speakers, say 88 to 92 db/m.  I am guessing around 30 w/ch, but these are “tube watts”  which in real life are twice as powerful as SS watts.
> 
> And “OTL watts” are even more powerful in the sense of unrestricted dynamic swings.  I learned this the hard way  blowing away some drivers  with my old LD OTL preamp, the SS amps simply hit louder and “faster” with this kind of preamp, dangerous but rewarding...this will not happen with a 30 w/ch amp of course, but you got the point.
> 
> ...



Hi J.

OK...so a bit unfair to compare lol...but it would still be interesting!! 

I must clarify the 8-tube complement first off however - there will be *FOUR *2A3 powers and four 6SN7 drivers (8x 2A3s would be horrendously expensive alas!!)...plus a specially commissioned output transformer, so this won't be an OTL amp therefore. And as such, the need for a first class transformer is paramount of course, to really do justice to the 2A3s.

But as you say, this will be a rare beast indeed, performing 1st class headphone duties, *plus* preamp out (both balanced and SE); speaker out, and the (extra cost) option for electrostatics out...a *very* rare beast lol!


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## Johnnysound (Aug 25, 2018)

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello Johnnysound...
> 
> Speaking of preamp outs...
> 
> Here is something to try:  Use an adapter cord to go from the HP out to RCA on your FA HP amp to feed your NAD speaker amp, and see if it sounds different that using the RCA outs on the back of the amp....



Hi JV,  as promised, I did the experiment.  Both HP and pre outs sounded, well, about the same.   At first, I thought that the HP out was better, but I forgot the attenuation of the pre outs when you use the HP plug.  With no plug in, there was no significant difference, in my opinion, and with my gear.    However, the HP out sounded so good, clear and extended  that I almost convinced myself that it was better.  Curiously, I felt that maybe the  right/left channel balance was slightly different with some sources, but that was probably my gear...


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## connieflyer

Morning H,have not heard from you in awhile.  You must be lost in the new tube conversions, have you come to any conclusions as to how they sound compared to the tubes that have the original top caps?  Also wondering if Lukasz has hinted at the approx. time frame to announce the appearance of the new marvelous do all, end all amplifier? Eagerly waiting for info!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Morning H,have not heard from you in awhile.  You must be lost in the new tube conversions, have you come to any conclusions as to how they sound compared to the tubes that have the original top caps?  Also wondering if Lukasz has hinted at the approx. time frame to announce the appearance of the new marvelous do all, end all amplifier? Eagerly waiting for info!



Hi cf...yes indeed, tube tinkering and car repairs/maintenance. Not to mention catching up with garden chores after the horrendous (for me!) heatwave lol! All of which has left me too tired even for nice, long Euforia _listening_ sessions, as opposed to _scrutinising_ ones! 

But am glad to say the (rather tricky) experiment with removing the top connectors of the ST CV1052(EL32)s and making direct metal-to-metal contact with my new wires has proved even more surprising than I anticipated. With further burn-in, the difference highlights especially those recordings that have been engineered extremely well...with precise separation and positioning within 3D space giving an almost totally new sound. 2 tracks that blew me away especially were Fleetwood Mac's "Gold Dust Woman" and Lindsey Stirling's "Stars Align". Quite amazing, really...and just confirms brilliantly my belief that connectors of any sort within one's system are an unfortunate (but necessary) evil lol!! ...and which I try to remove at the first opportunity!! 

These particular tubes are now delivering a performance way beyond any others I have ever used...bar none! And have (this time!) definitely brought an end to any further searches and experimentation...thank goodness! I would now pit my system against anything anywhere near this price range. And only increases further my eager anticipation to see just how F-A's new amp sounds in comparison...on which subject I have pressed Lukasz once more for news on progress of same. I should imagine things are getting very close to prototype stage by now...assuming all is going well lol! So I hope to be hearing something fairly soon...hang in there folks! CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Glad to hear you are having much success with your re-engineering of the tubes and that they sound so good as to make you give up further searches!  Of course, I will believe that when I see it!  For myself, the amp-headphone combo continues to improve, in clarity and overall enjoyment. I thought by now, I would be wanting to get a new headphone, but these Senn 800 continue to improve the longer I use them. I have sold off all the other phones except a pair of headfi 400's that I use for testing so as not to damage the 800's in case of a surge or to use for tube burn-in.  FA is going to have to really, really up their game, if I am going to buy the new amp to replace the Euforia.


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## DecentLevi

I came across a few authentic Osram 'tubes' here visiting Romania
 
I wonder what kind of an adapter would be needed for these? Probably one that's direct to the mains power, LOL.

Another way to know you're an audiophile:
If it's too bright outside you find yourself reaching for the treble knob on your portable rig


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## DecentLevi (Sep 8, 2018)

Hey I gotta say after all these travels in recent months and several live music events, I have yet to hear anything that matches the sound of the Euforia driving headphones_ (well, on a top-tier custom tube setup to be fair)_. With all the various nightclubs I've been to in many countries and even concerts, I have come to the conclusion that the VAST majority of speaker systems at ALL live events are NOT configured for optimal performance. This includes concerts, discotheques, festivals, etc. Once in a great while a live sound system sounds worthy of audiophile status, but still misses some check boxes, at this level usually still has issues with FR and acoustics. *If only the average 'sound guy' was more of an audiophile*, they would care more for things like conductor material, amp matching and even DAC's for performances that use pre-recorded source backing. It is YOU lucky folks at home with super hi-fi systems that have it good, better than many live shows - save for truly acoustic / percussive performances without P.A.

Hey H1 I too love some Fleetwood Mack. I especially recommend these two albums for the mastering (and music)
- Heroes Are Hard To Find (1974)
- Tango In The Night (1987)


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## DecentLevi

edited above post ^


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## JazzVinyl (Sep 10, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey I gotta say after all these travels in recent months and several live music events, I have yet to hear anything that matches the sound of the Euforia driving headphones_ (well, on a top-tier custom tube setup to be fair)_. With all the various nightclubs I've been to in many countries and even concerts, I have come to the conclusion that the VAST majority of speaker systems at ALL live events are NOT configured for optimal performance. This includes concerts, discotheques, festivals, etc. Once in a great while a live sound system sounds worthy of audiophile status, but still misses some check boxes, at this level usually still has issues with FR and acoustics. *If only the average 'sound guy' was more of an audiophile*, they would care more for things like conductor material, amp matching and even DAC's for performances that use pre-recorded source backing. It is YOU lucky folks at home with super hi-fi systems that have it good, better than many live shows - save for truly acoustic / percussive performances without P.A.
> 
> Hey H1 I too love some Fleetwood Mack. I especially recommend these two albums for the mastering (and music)
> - Heroes Are Hard To Find (1974)
> - Tango In The Night (1987)



As a guy who mixed sound for a number of years....

All I can say is you must work with the equipment you are given.  The 'Sound Guy' is a hired gun, he does not own, or endorse, the gear he is working with.

Many venues are also "anti" sound quality.  Were never designed to be a venue with optimal sound quality in mind.

And lastly....

Time crunch!  Many times we arrived at the venue in time to set the gear up, but not enough time to really be able to test things as thoroughly as would have liked.

The actual 'optimal mix' is often made during the early stages of actual performance!

There is a heck of a lot more working against you, than with you, in a situation where you will get to a venue that you have never been in before and set up a sound system which may or may not be optimal for the size room or the aoustics of the room you are in.

Even worse was when we were required to use the "house sound system" which may or may not have been optimally configured...or even working, properly!!

If you go to live shows and expect anything approaching an "optimal headphone" experience...no wonder you came away disappointed.

Cheers!!


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## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Hey H1 I too love some Fleetwood Mack. I especially recommend these two albums for the mastering (and music)
> - Heroes Are Hard To Find (1974)
> - Tango In The Night (1987)



Is "Fleetwood Mack" the same group as "Fleetwood Mac"?

The earlier, the better, when it came to "Fleetwood Mac"...

Try out the "Mystery to Me" album...


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## JazzVinyl (Sep 10, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> And the latest pic of my 'Bringer of Joy' : Euforia plus 2x (smoked glass) ST CV1052s driving similar powers..._*magical!*_
> 
> From old (but often well-recorded) Peter, Paul and Mary to Andreas Vollenweider's (superbly recorded) New Age 'Caverna Magica' (via Adrian Boult/LPO's 'Planets Suite', remastered in 96kHz/24bit - tremendous!), this setup can reproduce _anything_ with absolute aplomb...just breathtaking lol...CHEERS!...CJ



Bringer of Joy 
I like it!!!

So all 4 tubes are the same, CV-1052's ?

Do these run cool like the EL's?

And, Mr Vollenweiders' Caverna Magica...yes, what a fantastically well mastered disc it is!


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## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> Bringer of Joy
> I like it!!!
> 
> So all 4 tubes are the same, CV-1052's ?
> ...



Hi JV.

Yes indeed, all 4 are ST ('coke bottle') military CV1052s, with internal coating. I also have 2 Pinnacle brand ST EL32s, also with said coating, and they perform as well as the ST CV1052. I don't have 4 of the_ clear_ glass EL32, but the 2 I do have didn't seem to be quite as good overall. And these ST shape tubes are definitely better than the later straight-sided CV1052.

As with the other EL tubes we've tried, these also run very cool...in fact much cooler even lol! At just 0.2A heater current each, all four take only a bit more than just *1* 6SN7...and a tiny fraction of the stock total of 6.8A, of course!!  And as @Johnnysound mentioned a while back, this very low current draw probably also contributes greatly to the quietest background I (we) have ever experienced, from _any _tube. Which in turn helps produce a wonderfully clean, clear delivery...which in turn helps with exceptional separation and positioning, leading to what J also confirmed - ie. the (sometimes startling) appearance of hitherto unnoticed notes/sounds suddenly coming from seemingly nowhere, in 3 dimensional space. This particular quality - along with others - is more noticeable with highly resolving gear, of course, and presupposes really good equipment right from source to headphones...plus a good, clean mains electricity supply to begin with!!  Especially helpful are cans such as my T1s and, as @connieflyer has found, the HD800(s). They definitely help bring out the best in these tubes, which in my own system, deliver more in all areas than any of the top flight ones I've used in the past...'approved' or otherwise....CHEERS!  CJ


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## hypnos1 (Sep 11, 2018)

Hi @DecentLevi .

Since becoming addicted to top class music reproduction via good tube amps and accompanying gear, I personally have given up expecting anything that will come remotely close at most music venues! The experience IMHO is going to be one that focuses less on really good sound (as we know it!!) and more on the massed humanity type...in a similar vein to - dare I say it? - the mass hysteria of the football stadium lol! And in a more subdued (usually) way, this even applies often to modern Classical Music concerts...more emphasis, and attention, being placed upon the 'star quality' of the performers (including the conductor), rather than purely the performance per se, as heard by the audience. For example, my last 2 visits (which will in fact _be_ my last!) to my local theatre were to hear the excellent harpist Marisa Robles, and the renowned violinist Tasmin Little, accompanied no less by members of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Both performances were rapturously received, but the sound quality was utterly abysmal...by my newly acquired critical sense, that is!
Admittedly, there are far better venues across the country, acoustic-wise, but the fact that promoters were obviously happy enough to stage such performances has me doubting somewhat their attention to sound _quality_ lol!!!

As JV mentioned, the sound guys undoubtedly are often placed in less-than-ideal situations to ply their craft...but once again, the _promoters_ of these gigs must surely have some idea at least of what is - or might be - available for the technicians to work with, and are therefore IMHO culpably negligent of ensuring the possibility of 'good quality' sound reproduction. But are quick/happy enough to take the poor punters' money. And as so many folks seem to be happy with this, one must assume that really good quality sound is, sadly, very low on their list of priorities!! 

Ah well, such is life I suppose. But at least I now save myself a lot of money by enjoying first class audio via my tube setup, and am happy to forego the 'audience' experience lol......(perhaps being a 'grumpy old man' might also explain things somewhat! ).

ps. I must admit 'Rumours' is my favourite album of Fleetwood Mac, but will surely try some others...


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## Johnnysound (Sep 24, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> Yes indeed, all 4 are ST ('coke bottle') military CV1052s, with internal coating. I also have 2 Pinnacle brand ST EL32s, also with said coating, and they perform as well as the ST CV1052. I don't have 4 of the_ clear_ glass EL32, but the 2 I do have didn't seem to be quite as good overall. And these ST shape tubes are definitely better than the later straight-sided CV1052.
> 
> As with the other EL tubes we've tried, these also run very cool...in fact much cooler even lol! At just 0.2A heater current each, all four take only a bit more than just *1* 6SN7...and a tiny fraction of the stock total of 6.8A, of course!!  And as @Johnnysound mentioned a while back, this very low current draw probably also contributes greatly to the quietest background I (we) have ever experienced, from _any _tube. Which in turn helps produce a wonderfully clean, clear delivery...which in turn helps with exceptional separation and positioning, leading to what J also confirmed - ie. the (sometimes startling) appearance of hitherto unnoticed notes/sounds suddenly coming from seemingly nowhere, in 3 dimensional space. This particular quality - along with others - is more noticeable with highly resolving gear, of course, and presupposes really good equipment right from source to headphones...plus a good, clean mains electricity supply to begin with!!  Especially helpful are cans such as my T1s and, as @connieflyer has found, the HD800(s). They definitely help bring out the best in these tubes, which in my own system, deliver more in all areas than any of the top flight ones I've used in the past...'approved' or otherwise....CHEERS!  CJ



Well, yes...that ultra quiet background of the vintage CV1052/EL32  “dark glass” is the foundation for a clear, airy,  3 dimensional sound.
And the Mullards will deliver...after a very, very long burn in.  I guess this is the price to pay for their very low current draw.

The quietness was there from the start, but I felt the tubes just a bit recessed, laid back, kind of slightly closed in, specially in the bass department.  Nothing to worry about,  clearly a matter of proper burn in (as H1 advised).  What H1 didn’t say was that you’ll need the patience of a monk from the middle ages to wait for this (LOL)

While they sounded nice and beautiful with cans ( before proper burn in),  in the  preamp their sound was clearly  laid back and “polite” at first ...just a bit. I left the drivers in place and substituted the powers   with various ELs, and found my East German RFT EL12Ns a perfect match.

Of course, fully burned in tubes, maybe not as refined as the EL12 spezials, but driven by the Mullards ST EL32 the sound was just amazingly transparent, pure, fast and expressive, even a bit “raw” in its purity.   The EL32s extracted the best sound ever from those very underrated tubes, for one of  the most impressive combos I have heard in the Euforia....as a preamp.  With my cans this same combo was, maybe, a little over the top at times.  Only that my cans are not top notch...  Anyway,  the experiment proved that these Mullards are without a doubt stellar drivers, probably the best I ever tried in the Euforia.

But I went on and on,  and after many hours the quartet reached maturity in a surprising way:  the sound opened up mightily, the bass is now deep and precise, and I can only describe their performance as reference quality.  Are they still improving  ?  Who knows, with so little current draw, probably.

And that kind of tubes in a preamp do have other useful  virtues, as a reference to check your power amp, for example.  I recently installed some KT150s and these monsters delivered such an overwhelming   bass in integrated mode that I didn’t like them  at first.   With the Euforia/Mullard combo driving the power amp, everything went under control again.  I mean, all the deep bass is still there, but in a much  more accurate and realistic fashion...


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## hypnos1 (Sep 26, 2018)

Johnnysound said:


> Well, yes...that ultra quiet background of the vintage CV1052/EL32  “dark glass” is the foundation for a clear, airy,  3 dimensional sound.
> And the Mullards will deliver...after a very, very long burn in.  I guess this is the price to pay for their very low current draw.
> 
> The quietness was there from the start, but I felt the tubes just a bit recessed, laid back, kind of slightly closed in, specially in the bass department.  Nothing to worry about,  clearly a matter of proper burn in (as H1 advised).  What H1 didn’t say was that you’ll need the patience of a monk from the middle ages to wait for this (LOL)
> ...



Hi J.

I have quoted your whole post because you have confirmed what I keep on repeating - ie. that often, and especially with these particular tubes (more so even than other ELs), one needs to be *extra patient* before coming to any kind of conclusion as to their performance. Even 50 hrs aren't anywhere near enough lol!! I'm afraid too many folks still don't allow long enough when evaluating tubes...or other hi-fi gear, for that matter! Which is a great shame, to say the least, and devalues any opinion given ...

I have to say that despite the difficulty in accurately assessing any further improvement after a certain point in burn-in, even with well over 100 hrs on my own quartet of these (coated) ST CV1052s, I still noticed subtle 'extras' in their performance. Probably also due to the 'learning' function of new elements in the sound reproduction line - not just tubes and wire, but also any other relatively new gear such as source, DAC and possibly amp! This is why it's advisable to play as many different types of music as possible - preferably of high quality! - covering a large frequency range. Admittedly, a certain degree of this extra performance will only be noticeable in gear that will benefit from it - especially, perhaps, the headphones used. But it's interesting to hear the improvements you mention also when in preamp duties...a double bonus, therefore! 

And so I'm glad you had the patience to stick with it, and thereby gain your rewards lol!! 

ps. Lukasz has updated me on progress re. the new 2A3 amp, and I'm glad to say they don't appear to have encountered any serious gremlins in its development, and that results so far are "magnificent", with elements "way and above" Euforia's "already good" performance...in Lukasz's words. Plus, a STAX output that is "Wow". So this is going to be a very interesting amp indeed to compare with how I now have my own Euforia setup performing!.  And from photos of work-in-progress, it would appear 2x 6SN7 drivers and 2x 2A3s are actually being used, as opposed to 4 of each (I'm awaiting confirmation of this change in topology from him). Which would probably be good anyway, given the massive heat that 8 tubes would generate, not to mention cost lol!! Will update info as soon as I hear myself...


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, it's been a long time! Many twists and turns along the way, including a great stroke of luck which brought me a pair of Final's uber D8000 headphones.

In the meantime I decided to go solid-state, so I'm letting go of my small collection of tubes. Measured each and every one of them, and even paid to a professional service to double-check my own findings. If anyone in Elise / Eu_f_oria land wants to take advantage here's my ad: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-eu-6sn7-6080-el12-sold-as-lot.889555/

PS. This is a double-post with the one I put up on the Elise thread. Hope you don't feel it's redundant, but if yes then feel free to take it down!


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## connieflyer

Nice to see you back Angpsi, has been awhile.  Glad you are happy with new equipment, your tube list looks very nice.  I am overloaded with tubes myself, so can not use them.  I have been using the dark glass ST  CV1052's  from hypnos1 now for several months. Have given them time to adjust, they sounded good right away, but there was something lacking, hard to put my finger on it. Finally realized there was a slight distortion in treble, not much but there.  Now after the last 20 hours, have well over 100 hours on them and they have opened up like no other tubes I have tried before.  They are stable, totally quiet, and the sound is not to be believed at times. The sound field has spread out across the entire headphone, from ear to ear.  The once slight treble blur has gone and in it's place is a sound field that is wide and diverse.  New treble information is heard on familiar music tracks that has never been heard before. Orchestral's are spread across the entire phones, individual instruments can now be placed, and vocals are centered with the musical portions in either ear, depending on where the recording engineer placed them. No longer hear music as a whole but as lots of individual instruments spread across the phones in a cohesive manner. These tubes, are a jewel in the Feliks Audio theater. Am now starting a 100 hour burn in on the VT 52's to see how they fare with the St Cv 1052's.  It will take a while, I run the tubes for eight hours then a two hour cool down, and then another six to eight hour run in.  Quit for the night and then repeat the following day.  Learning from the Cv's I now don't check until about forty hours in, will give a listen, and then not check again for about the same time. Hearing H's comments on Feliks Audio's new amp it is hard to imagine a huge difference, but if he hears it when he gets the proto type, I may be in, depending on if I have to chose between the amp and buying food.  But then I could stand to lose a few pounds so will have to see.  Good luck and if you can find the dark glass cv1052's wish you luck. I have four or six clear st cv1052's that I may try burn in with later or just put them up for sale.


----------



## angpsi

Hi @connieflyer, wow you guys pushed the triode strapped pentode game way further than I remember! I still recall the experimental days when I took the plunge with the TFK EL12spez, all including the DIY Faraday cages and everything! As I wrote UT on the Elise thread, I was incredibly fortunate to win a pair of Final's new flagship D8000 orthodynamic headphones and it completely changed my game. At the time I had decided to keep my trusty HD600 along with my Mojo and get out of the headphones game altogether, however the Final was a big game changer! Now I'm either a) selling them or b) keeping them and shell out another $1500 to get me a Questyle CMA600i to drive them adequately. So no more tubes for me either way, hopefully someone will take advantage of this package deal because all the tubes that remained in my collection were a go-to pair.

PS. After checking and double-checking I eventually found out that my El12 were closing to the end of their life span (although wege-high-fidelity on eBay had told me they were NOS, imagine that!), so I'm basically giving them away for free!


----------



## connieflyer

Yes these CV 1052 s are amazing tubes. They do require a long burn in as I found out the first month or so. I could not understand why H kept saying they were so good when I found them more than adequate but not top of the game. But with proper burn in, you may want to read that over 100 hours these tubes open up like no others I've ever listened to. The Sennheiser 800 that I am using are about 3 years old and they are about as stable as you can get with this type of phone. The rest of the system is quite good as well so I am living the dream! Felix's new amp having the electrostatic headphone jack output is going to make this a giant killer I think. Headphones dynamic and used as a speaker amplifier as well this is going to be A Cut Above. I will really have to check my finances at the door, providing h 1 provides me with an adequate and glowing report once the Prototype is ready. His equipment and music interest parallel my own so I feel very confident in taking his advice yay or nay on this amplifier. I am sure that I would not have a chance to audition it over here in the States first. But I've been quite satisfied with Feliks audio with the Elise and now with Euforia, and the Stellar reviews that the other amplifiers that they make have as well in the reviews, if H1 gives it high marks I'm going to have to think about going that route and that should cover all the bases for me at least. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the new headphones those are A Cut Above as well and you should be able to get some very good sound out of them. Good luck with the phones and the tube sale hope you do well take care


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 3, 2018)

angpsi said:


> Hi guys, it's been a long time! Many twists and turns along the way, including a great stroke of luck which brought me a pair of Final's uber D8000 headphones.
> 
> In the meantime I decided to go solid-state, so I'm letting go of my small collection of tubes. Measured each and every one of them, and even paid to a professional service to double-check my own findings. If anyone in Elise / Eu_f_oria land wants to take advantage here's my ad: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-eu-6sn7-6080-el12-sold-as-lot.889555/
> 
> PS. This is a double-post with the one I put up on the Elise thread. Hope you don't feel it's redundant, but if yes then feel free to take it down!



Hi ang....long time no see/hear!!

Sorry to hear tubes didn't really do it for you...but I'm sure you found the experience interesting and informative(?!)...

But Chord gear certainly is extremely good - my Hugo2 definitely gives my Euforia setup a run for its money...or, rather, _did_...until my latest 'coated' ST CV1052s came along lol!! And now, it (Euforia) even surpasses IMHO my friend's very good Questyle CMA800 that we A/B'd a while ago, using my modded T1s (gen 1, with replacement UP-OCC silver & copper cable).

It should indeed be very interesting to see how your Finals sound driven by a CMA amp...or can you demo a Hugo2 at all?!...(much better than Mojo IMHO!).

Whatever your final choice, I wish you all the best in your quest for what suits you soundwise...there are many routes to such nirvana! ...CHEERS...CJ

ps. Sorry you were bitten with those EL12s...fleabay can indeed sometimes be a minefield. Although_ most _of my own experiences have, fortunately, been OK...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Yes these CV 1052 s are amazing tubes. They do require a long burn in as I found out the first month or so. I could not understand why H kept saying they were so good when I found them more than adequate but not top of the game. But with proper burn in, you may want to read that over 100 hours these tubes open up like no others I've ever listened to. The Sennheiser 800 that I am using are about 3 years old and they are about as stable as you can get with this type of phone. The rest of the system is quite good as well so I am living the dream! Felix's new amp having the electrostatic headphone jack output is going to make this a giant killer I think. Headphones dynamic and used as a speaker amplifier as well this is going to be A Cut Above. I will really have to check my finances at the door, providing h 1 provides me with an adequate and glowing report once the Prototype is ready. His equipment and music interest parallel my own so I feel very confident in taking his advice yay or nay on this amplifier. I am sure that I would not have a chance to audition it over here in the States first. But I've been quite satisfied with Feliks audio with the Elise and now with Euforia, and the Stellar reviews that the other amplifiers that they make have as well in the reviews, if H1 gives it high marks I'm going to have to think about going that route and that should cover all the bases for me at least. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the new headphones those are A Cut Above as well and you should be able to get some very good sound out of them. Good luck with the phones and the tube sale hope you do well take care



Hi cf.

Am so glad that you, like @Johnnysound , stuck with my pleas to give these ('coated') ST CV1052s _lots_ of burn-in time...I personally found they need more time even than some of the (notorious!) Russian (small) tubes!! And I still cannot believe just how much they changed well after 100 hrs...especially when 'conditioned' by many different pieces of music across the entire FR.

These have proved beyond any doubt that tubes not specifically configured for in a circuit sometimes _can_ perform brilliantly, regardless of what _theory_ might dictate. As I have stated many times before, one should trust one's own _ears_ in such matters, and _not _be overly swayed by what others (including 'experts') say...so long as said tubes are shown to be safe to use! On which subject, I have to say also that these ELs especially have been prone to _none_ of the gremlins that sometimes curse other tubes used in 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080/6BL7 circuits. On the contrary, mine have proved to be the quietest, hum-(and other gremlin-) free tubes I have _ever_ used in my amps...bar none! That they also outperform _all_ of them - often at a fraction of the cost - and run the amp incredibly cool, has me still in disbelief.

And so yes, F-A's new flagship amp is going to have to really blow my mind in comparison...expectation bias at the moment is _not_ going to be 'gilding the lily', to say the least lol!  Especially as my wallet is speaking very loudly to me at the moment...and it's not in a tempting voice, may I add! So I look forward to testing the prototype with a certain trepidation, mon ami! ...particularly as I don't want to be the cause of your demise through starvation...nor _mine!!_......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I finished the burn in with the VT 52 coated tubes, and my findings are that they are indeed a good sounding tube. However compared to burned in coated CV1052's they are a little bit warmer, more tilted toward the mid range, treble is a little muted, and sound stage is smaller, in all directions. It is a more intimate sound, and it would be easy to get used to if so inclined.  Have another twenty hours or so on them, and I swear they have improved slightly.  I don't think that is expectation bias, I believe that it is there.  The others that have the tube and did not cook it long enough are missing out on quite an experience.  I have  put the clear Cv's in to see how they measure up after burn in.  So off to burn in the clear CV1052's for a hundred or more hours.  The clear tubes that I purchased are defineatly  NOS, boxes are new so will take some time to arrive at a good burn in. Can't hurt. And if positive it would be easier for others to find than the coated tubes.


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> I finished the burn in with the VT 52 coated tubes, and my findings are that they are indeed a good sounding tube. However compared to burned in coated CV1052's they are a little bit warmer, more tilted toward the mid range, treble is a little muted, and sound stage is smaller, in all directions. It is a more intimate sound, and it would be easy to get used to if so inclined.  Have another twenty hours or so on them, and I swear they have improved slightly.  I don't think that is expectation bias, I believe that it is there.  The others that have the tube and did not cook it long enough are missing out on quite an experience.  I have  put the clear Cv's in to see how they measure up after burn in.  So off to burn in the clear CV1052's for a hundred or more hours.  The clear tubes that I purchased are defineatly  NOS, boxes are new so will take some time to arrive at a good burn in. Can't hurt. And if positive it would be easier for others to find than the coated tubes.


Hi CF, by VT 52 do you mean the straight bottle Marconi?, if so, I have a quad of them and my impression of them mirrors yours, compared to the coated ST CV 1052/ I've found them to be a little darker, a little less detailed, and slightly deeper bass but also looser, still a very nice tube, also have you tried the straight bottle Mullard CV 1052?, they very much have their own sound compared to the  VT 52/, I've found them to have greater extension in the highs, more detail, bass isn't as deep but tighter and harder hitting, my first impression was of being a little thin, but with burn in they have filled out somewhat and have very good sound in their own right and compliment the other two versions very well, and at £3.50 a tube you really can't go wrong!.


----------



## connieflyer

Yes, these were the Marconi straight bottle.  Have tried this quad with over a hundred hours now, and while it is decent, compared to the coated CV 1052's with well over a hundred hours now, they won't see much use, unless this quad of CV 1052's give out on me.  I have not tried the Mullard as I am perfectly happy with the quad of CV 1052 and see no point in getting even more tubes at present. I have to start clearing out the tubes I have to get ready for the new FA amp, if it proves to be as good as Lukasz has said.  Glad your assement of the Marconi's parallel mine.  Am burning in a quad of clear CV 1052's now to see what the difference between them and the coated variety is. The clear should be easier to find if so. Also have a pair of clear Phillips Miniwatt CV's


----------



## OctavianH

Maybe the differences in perception come from the rest of the line and Elise / Euforia sound signatures. For me things changed dramatically when replacing the DAC without touching anything on the tube amp. So, the whole line matters.


----------



## connieflyer

The whole line is exactly the same for all the tubes that have been tested. So nothing has changed except the tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I finished the burn in with the VT 52 coated tubes, and my findings are that they are indeed a good sounding tube. However compared to burned in coated CV1052's they are a little bit warmer, more tilted toward the mid range, treble is a little muted, and sound stage is smaller, in all directions. It is a more intimate sound, and it would be easy to get used to if so inclined.  Have another twenty hours or so on them, and I swear they have improved slightly.  I don't think that is expectation bias, I believe that it is there.  The others that have the tube and did not cook it long enough are missing out on quite an experience.  I have  put the clear Cv's in to see how they measure up after burn in.  So off to burn in the clear CV1052's for a hundred or more hours.  The clear tubes that I purchased are defineatly  NOS, boxes are new so will take some time to arrive at a good burn in. Can't hurt. And if positive it would be easier for others to find than the coated tubes.



Hi cf.

Thanks for doing an in-depth comparison of these EL32 variants - something I personally was unable to do fully alas. I also look forward to your findings re. the _clear_ ST EL32, which I suspect may be closer to the _coated_, ST CV1052 version. 

You have confirmed my initial suspicion that the later _straight-sided_ variants don't quite match in performance the earlier "coke bottle" tubes...as evidenced by the (ridiculously) cheap prices of the former, and the much higher prices commanded by the STs - _if_ you can find them lol!! With hardly any of the coated STs to be seen anywhere now, unfortunately, I sincerely hope the 'clears' will at least prove to be a very useful standby in case of (heaven forbid!) the need for replacements to the "real deal"!  My own single one seemed to perform very well indeed, partnering a coated one at least......(And I should imagine that with these tubes not being pushed anywhere near their limits in our amps, they could well last a VERY long time indeed!! ).


----------



## connieflyer

Just a quick update on the clear CV 1052's,  they are doing quite well. Sound stage has not opened up yet, about equal to the VT-52 Marconi's with over 110 hours on the VT's ,at this time.  Adequate frequency coverage, but lacking in overall depth. I am expecting them to be better after 100 hours. I have about 30 hours on them.  They should be a good stand in for the coated CV 1052 if you can not find any coated ones.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just a quick update on the clear CV 1052's,  they are doing quite well. Sound stage has not opened up yet, *about equal to the VT-52* *Marconi's with over 110 hours on the VT's ,at this time*.  Adequate frequency coverage, but lacking in overall depth. I am expecting them to be better after 100 hours. I have about 30 hours on them.  They should be a good stand in for the coated CV 1052 if you can not find any coated ones.



Hi cf.

For the soundstage to be thus already bodes well, as they will most surely continue to open up a lot more yet. As should the FR develop, with much further burn-in. So there's hope for them to be a good contender lol! 

Only trouble is there seem to be very few of these clear EL32s about alas...and I can't see a single 'coated' ST tube anywhere at all... So treat yours with _special_ care, mon ami...mine are in situ _permanently_, and fortunately I no longer have any desire/need to plug in anything else whatsoever!!  They cover all bases so well in our Euforia systems, that my curiosity in searching out 'new' tubes to try is finally at an end. No doubt there are other unsung heroes hiding out there in the wilderness, but they will be for others to discover......(At least there shouldn't be much need for 'rolling' with F-A's upcoming 2A3 amp soon...even some of the newer Chinese tubes can deliver top class sound, by all accounts! But time will tell lol...).

Good luck with the rest of your trialling, cf...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

According to Radiomuseum these are very rare,   https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv1052.html  so I imagine finding any is going to be hit or miss. These are the clear that I am using now and the same seller https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VT52-...h=item1ee2f0cc88:g:-cgAAOSwjvJZS5XJ:rk:5:pf:0   there are a few of these out there.  I also have two of the VT32 marked by Philips Mini Watt. I have six or eight of the VT 52 Marconi, including the quad that have over a hundred  hours on them.  The quad CV1052's came to me compliments of a friend, and will not be leaving, the others sure, with the rest of the excess tubes, getting ready for the new amp.  Just in case it turns out to be stunner.


----------



## ZRW0 (Oct 10, 2018)

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but I've been reading it for a while.
I'm from France, and I'm also the happy owner of an Euforia from Feliks Audio.

I've been practicing tube rolling as well, and I've recently acquired a set of 8 NOS CV1052 coated ST shaped to a french seller who wanted to get rid of all his stock of tubes.
So I have an extra spare set of 4 of these tubes, if one of you is interested (can't post any image for now due to new account restriction).

I'm far from the 100h burn-in some of you here recommend with those tubes, and although it is not the best combo to me yet (after many trials, WE421A, TS5998, RCA5692, KenradVT231, TelefunkenEL12-Spez... I really prefer the Sylvania 6SN7-GTB + Tung-Sol 6080WA combo on the Euforia, slightly superior to me to the WE421A+RCA5692 for a much more reasonable price), it actually sounds very promising regarding the wideness of the sound-stage (but basses are extremely lean and dynamics are still a bit shy).

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## aqsw (Oct 11, 2018)

Hey Guys,

I went to the Feliks Audio Facebook page. Look under "community".

4hifi posted some pics of the 2a3 amps monoblicked. Looks like they are only 8.5 wpc.  A little low for my liking. They look like Euphorias with with a meter on the front.

Could be a different amp as I don't see any headphone outs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

If you're looking for a beautiful and excellent sounding, do-it-all amplifier, the Feliks Audio Euforia probably is the amp for you. The full review, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/review-feliks-audio-euforia/

I can't wait to see the new amp they're working on!


----------



## attmci

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to this forum, but I've been reading it for a while.
> I'm from France, and I'm also the happy owner of an Euforia from Feliks Audio.
> ...


That will save you a lot of $$$. Don't look for other tubes.just use the ones you like.


----------



## attmci

Ultrainferno said:


> If you're looking for a beautiful and excellent sounding, do-it-all amplifier, the Feliks Audio Euforia probably is the amp for you. The full review, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-feliks-audio-euforia/
> 
> I can't wait to see the new amp they're working on!


Comparing to your 2359Glenn 300B Amp, any comments?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's not really a fair comparison but the 300B is more dynamic and has even more precision. It scores even better on technicalities and it has higher output power but it is more noisy than the Euforia.


----------



## attmci

Ultrainferno said:


> It's not really a fair comparison but the 300B is more dynamic and has even more precision. It scores even better on technicalities and it has higher output power but it is more noisy than the Euforia.


Thanks for your quick response.

I found there are only a small number of amps had been reviewed on your website. I pretty sure you guys had tried/tested many other brands.


----------



## Taleru

Managed to get my hands on some 1052s & oh my god 2 days till they arrive! Can't wait.


----------



## Ultrainferno

attmci said:


> Thanks for your quick response.
> 
> I found there are only a small number of amps had been reviewed on your website. I pretty sure you guys had tried/tested many other brands.



Have you checked: https://www.headfonia.com/category/amps/desktop-amps/
and
https://www.headfonia.com/category/amps/portable-amps-amplifiers/

I never officially reviewed my 300B amp though, as it's a custom one.


----------



## Scutey

Taleru said:


> Managed to get my hands on some 1052s & oh my god 2 days till they arrive! Can't wait.


Well done in finding some, you're in for a treat!, all I would say is be patient and give them plenty of burn in before making a judgement, and you will be rewarded.


----------



## mordy (Oct 11, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Antique-...h=item5d7f1b9017:g:dWUAAOSwC-JbQbND:rk:2:pf:0
Here is a misleading eBay ad - not surprising from Bangybang Tubes.
This is CV1054 tube advertised as a CV1052. Country of origin is given as US, but based on looking at the picture it is a British Mullard.
It is a dual diode tube.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 11, 2018)

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to this forum, but I've been reading it for a while.
> I'm from France, and I'm also the happy owner of an Euforia from Feliks Audio.
> ...



Hi Erwan....welcome...and glad to hear you're another "happy owner" of an Euforia...an extremely good amp IMHO!!

You have some very good tubes there to spoil her with...and I'm sure a good few folks would be scratching their heads somewhat that you rate the fairly humble Sylvania combo over WE421A etc.! 
However, that's a prime example of everyone's tastes being different, along with accompanying gear lol. And all that's important in this hobby is what pleases your ears and brain...and as I've stressed many times before, the most important thing is to _trust your ears!!
_
Re. the coated ST CV1052s you have, your early findings are precisely what the rest of us have found...so please persevere a good while longer yet (100 hrs plus) - your patience will most surely be rewarded. Bass _will_ develop, as will perceived _dynamics_ and greater frequency _range._ But I must point out something here that is sometimes not fully appreciated - ie. there is a great difference between bass _quantity _and _quality._ If too much of the former is presented, it can often result in loss of _detail_ and _precision_...along with masking many of the more subtle frequencies higher up the scale. It can sometimes take quite a long time to really notice and appreciate this...it took me a _good_ long while!!

And again with _dynamics_, greater separation and better placement of instruments and voice can sometimes _appear_ less dynamic at first, simply because of there being less 'compression', and a wider soundstage. This is most certainly the case with these particular tubes...more so than any others I have ever tried. And a somewhat uncanny result of this is the sudden appearance of notes that were never before heard in certain pieces of very familiar music - a trait noticed by others, as well as myself.

So please give these tubes much longer burn-in yet, and I hope you too may notice these aspects I have mentioned...plus others!

Re. the sale of your excess tubes, without (I hope!) casting any aspersions on your genuine sincerity/honesty, I suspect many folks might like to have the protection of ebay and PayPal, for example, in such purchases...especially as anyone new to head-fi is not allowed to post items in the 'for sale' classifieds until a member for 30 days, and with at least 15 posts under the belt.

But notwithstanding, I do hope you manage to find a buyer very soon...I myself have a good supply at the moment, but may well be in the market for some more if I can't afford the new flagship 2A3 amp. Hopefully, however, someone else will be able to enjoy the special qualities of these tubes, given their scarcity lol! 

Whatever, I wish you all the best Erwan...and GOOD LUCK! Not to mention continued enjoyment of your Euforia....Sante! (Please excuse the lack of acute accent!  ).


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I went to the Feliks Audio Facebook page. Look under "community".
> 
> ...



Hi aqsw.

Thanks for mentioning F-A's Facebook page, and this particular post (also recommended to me by @connieflyer ). 

The 2A3 F-A amps used are indeed different to the upcoming flagship amp, which should be both a headphone _and_ speaker amp...complete with option for electrostatic cans output!

Given that pop Henryk has come up with a more modern design (both external and internal) using the famous 2A3 tube - and the high praise already given by the Facebook poster using Euforia as pre-amp - I believe his creation will be right at/near the top of the tree, and serious competition for some very famous (and expensive!) amps....so fingers crossed lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Ultrainferno said:


> If you're looking for a beautiful and excellent sounding, do-it-all amplifier, the Feliks Audio Euforia probably is the amp for you. The full review, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-feliks-audio-euforia/
> 
> I can't wait to see the new amp they're working on!



Hi Ultrainferno.

A great review of Euforia...and one with which I concur totally. And yes, experimentation with different tubes will most certainly bring one's preferred sound signature - Euforia being a wonderful 'blank canvas' with which to work (for all the reasons you mentioned). And although some frowned upon the price rise a while ago, I personally still think this amp is very good value indeed.

And I too am eagerly awaiting a prototype of their new flagship amp, which I shall be showing here first, before starting a dedicated 'Summit-fi' thread. From the info Lukasz has already given me, this looks to be something _very_ special indeed, and will surely get some feathers flying in the hi-end world lol!...Can't wait!!...


----------



## hypnos1

Taleru said:


> Managed to get my hands on some 1052s & oh my god 2 days till they arrive! Can't wait.



Hi Taleru...and welcome!

I do hope you managed to find the "coke bottle" shaped CV1052, with internal coating. But having said that, the later straight-sided tubes are still very good indeed...especially for the money! Please remember to give them lots of burn-in time before really judging them...and I mean LOTS - at least 100 hrs!! ...GOOD LUCK...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I guess I may as well jump on the bandwagon, the Euforia is indeed turning out to be a great investment in audio enjoyment.  Listening to my system, I sometimes wonder, how much better the new 2A3 amp can be. I know what has been said, but listening to my Euforia, it is hard to imagine a sound that would be that much better.  Time will tell, once H has the new amp and begins his evaluation. As to the CV1052's I concur about the strange feeling I get every now and then, when out of nowhere, there will an instrument playing or sounds that I have not heard before.  This on very familiar recordings. I have had to back track and re listen on occasion, as most unexpected to hear things like this. The burn in with the clear CV1052's is going well.  Starting to open up a bit more, very encouraging.  Well, H you have to get Lukasz, to get the new amp to you, as if this is as all that he claims and you concur,  will have to consider this a must have.  For those of you that have the CV's don't give up on them until burned in, they are very good.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Antique-...h=item5d7f1b9017:g:dWUAAOSwC-JbQbND:rk:2:pf:0
> Here is a misleading eBay ad - not surprising from Bangybang Tubes.
> This is CV1054 tube advertised as a CV1052. Country of origin is given as US, but based on looking at the picture it is a British Mullard.
> It is a dual diode tube.



Hi mordy.

I also noticed this VERY misleading entry...the thought of an old globe-shaped CV1052/EL32 certainly had me looking very closely indeed...and then very disappointed lol!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I will be getting the new amp for review, already taken care of


----------



## hypnos1

Ultrainferno said:


> I will be getting the new amp for review, already taken care of



Looks like we're both in for an exciting time...soon, hopefully!


----------



## Scutey

Ultrainferno said:


> I will be getting the new amp for review, already taken care of





hypnos1 said:


> Looks like we're both in for an exciting time...soon, hopefully!


This is a review(s) I am very much looking forward to reading!


----------



## attmci

Ultrainferno said:


> Have you checked: https://www.headfonia.com/category/amps/desktop-amps/
> and
> https://www.headfonia.com/category/amps/portable-amps-amplifiers/
> 
> I never officially reviewed my 300B amp though, as it's a custom one.


OK


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 12, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf.
> 
> Am so glad that you, like @Johnnysound , stuck with my pleas to give these ('coated') ST CV1052s _lots_ of burn-in time...I personally found they need more time even than some of the (notorious!) Russian (small) tubes!! And I still cannot believe just how much they changed well after 100 hrs...especially when 'conditioned' by many different pieces of music across the entire FR.
> 
> These have proved beyond any doubt that tubes not specifically configured for in a circuit sometimes _can_ perform brilliantly, regardless of what _theory_ might dictate. As I have stated many times before, one should trust one's own _ears_ in such matters, and _not _be overly swayed by what others (including 'experts') say...so long as said tubes are shown to be safe to use! On which subject, I have to say also that these ELs especially have been prone to _none_ of the gremlins that sometimes curse other tubes used in 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080/6BL7 circuits. On the contrary, mine have proved to be the quietest, hum-(and other gremlin-) free tubes I have _ever_ used in my amps...bar none! That they also outperform _all_ of them - often at a fraction of the cost - and run the amp incredibly cool, has me still in disbelief !....CHEERS!...CJ



Hi H1, you mentioned the  long burn in  time needed by Russian “small” tubes...since all tubes are system dependent I must say (again) that I still consider my ( rare) Melz 6N1P-E triple mica, box plates from 63’ some of the very top drivers in the Euforia.  In this particular amp,  IMHO, superior to _any _6SN7 that I have tried (and I have quite a few  nice ones).  I read that the 6N1P was designed as a cold war effort to surpass  the specs of the U.S. 6SN7 in a small format,  from the start as an audio tube, and it shows.

Super extended top to bottom, linear, quiet, and above all a rich, dense, dynamic, musical and pleasant sound.  Curiously, they do need quite a warmup to sound best, probably an hour or so.   I have used mine some 40 hours, and yes, I feel they need much more playing time to completely “open up”.

The good news is that right now there are a few offers of the 6N1P-E triple mica from the sixties on EBay at very good prices !  This is a quite rare tube, normally very hard to find, and believe me, the current stock will be sold in a few days, and will not appear again for a long time....

But the small Russians will have to wait , all my “amp time” is devoted right now to the CV1052 “dark glass” quartet.  Some 130 hours plus...and I feel they have not reached their peak yet.  These tubes are unlike any others that I know of.

All tubes improve with burn in, of course, and after some time you can be reasonably sure that the tube is “mature” , say  some better defined bass, subtly more open sound, and so on, and it stays like that.  Not the CV1052s.  The current draw is so tiny that the process is not only extremely slow, but gradual and incremental in very small steps, and most important, in my experience the results are very different than with other tubes.  While you can expect, say, marginally better bass, these tubes evolved (surprisingly) from a quite “polite” and a bit  restricted bass to something very different: a seriously deep, tight and accurate presentation.  This is not  a “normal” burn in.  This is not marginal.  My mad theory is that the very low current draw maybe has some unexpected effects in the tube internals, apart from  the quiet background.  Slow cooking is always better....Who knows ?


----------



## connieflyer

Well Johnnysound, your results parallel mine exactly. The only thing is with mine I stopped at a hundred and twenty hours to put a hundred hours or so on the clear CV 1052 tubes. Right now the clear Tubes are showing that they are very close to the coated tubes. I can hardly wait till I get over the hundred hour burn in on these, so I can go back to the coated tubes and continue There long-term burning. I think these are some of the best tubes that I have used. I used to think the gec 6as7g where my best drivers along with the 6080 but I haven't use those and probably 4 months and will probably put them up for sale I'm sure somebody could use that type of tube. I am going to stick with the CV tubes I can hardly wait to see just how good they will eventually get. Take care and good luck on your journey with these tubes


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1, you mentioned the  long burn in  time needed by Russian “small” tubes...since all tubes are system dependent I must say (again) that I still consider my ( rare) Melz 6N1P-E triple mica, box plates from 63’ some of the very top drivers in the Euforia.  In this particular amp,  IMHO, superior to _any _6SN7 that I have tried (and I have quite a few  nice ones).  I read that the 6N1P was designed as a cold war effort to surpass  the specs of the U.S. 6SN7 in a small format,  from the start as an audio tube, and it shows.
> 
> Super extended top to bottom, linear, quiet, and above all a rich, dense, dynamic, musical and pleasant sound.  Curiously, they do need quite a warmup to sound best, probably an hour or so.   I have used mine some 40 hours, and yes, I feel they need much more playing time to completely “open up”.
> 
> ...



Hi J.

Interesting that the 6N1p should perform so well in our amps...like so many others, this is _not_ meant to happen lol! But, as you know, I have found many such non-conformities that have performed extremely well in Elise and Euforia, regardless of what theory and some might say!

And as for the ST CV1052 with internal coating, this tube has - like yourself, and others have found - turned out to be the most 'mystifying' of all. The dramatic changes/improvements over extended time have certainly confounded also myself, @connieflyer et al to an astonishing degree. When I first spied and then adapted this tube, I never thought such a diminutive "coke bottle" (or anything else, for that matter!) could ever match my extremely rare mesh-plated Valvo EL11/TFK EL12 Spezial combo... and to be honest, first impressions weren't _overly_ encouraging. But my gut instinct told me to persevere with it - years of experimenting with 'unconventional' tubes have, fortunately, somehow instilled in me a certain ear for _potential_ at least. And as the weeks went by, I noticed the kinds of development you described - _different_ to any others I have tried before. At first I thought my hearing had simply altered temporarily, or it was a case of 'brain burn-in'. But when I noticed such changes even after a few days' rest from listening, and old, familiar test tracks sounding like never before, I discounted these possibilities entirely! And when cf and yourself confirmed I wasn't just fooling myself, I finally accepted that this tube _is_ truly a very rare creature indeed. And precisely why it should perform as it does, I too don't really know whether it's due to the low current draw, or something else. _Theory_ would say that as this tube is not conforming to our amps' circuit topology, it should be operating _below_ par, to say the least. So this is indeed an interesting conundrum lol, and one for which I will be forever grateful ...


----------



## connieflyer

I totally concur with H on these tubes.  It is funny that he should mention hearing, as I had the same thoughts!  That for some unknown reason, my hearing had some how changed and allowed me to hear frequencies in the music that I had not heard before, thanks H for confirming I was not crazy.  Well, at least that is one thing in my favor for not being "called" crazy.  Amazing sound that these tubes are providing.  Extremely pleased with them.  Thanks H for putting us on to such a premium sound.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well Johnnysound, your results parallel mine exactly. The only thing is with mine I stopped at a hundred and twenty hours to put a hundred hours or so on the clear CV 1052 tubes. Right now the clear Tubes are showing that they are very close to the coated tubes. I can hardly wait till I get over the hundred hour burn in on these, so I can go back to the coated tubes and continue There long-term burning. I think these are some of the best tubes that I have used. I used to think the gec 6as7g where my best drivers along with the 6080 but I haven't use those and probably 4 months and will probably put them up for sale I'm sure somebody could use that type of tube. I am going to stick with the CV tubes I can hardly wait to see just how good they will eventually get. Take care and good luck on your journey with these tubes



Hi cf.

All I can say is...well done for sacrificing more time with your 'specials' in the interests of 'rollers anonymous' lol! ...(reckon you should take over my mantle as mad tube experimenter...so get brushing up your soldering skills, mon ami! . But then, why would you want to, given the sound we're now enjoying from our Euforias?!! ...not to mention looming bankruptcy, courtesy of Feliks-Audio!!!).

And glad to hear the clear ST version is developing nicely as well...should prove to be a very useful 'stand in', if ever necessary.

120 hours on the 'coateds'?...you could well be in for further surprises yet!....HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

No worries about me taking over over your mantle as mad tube experimenter, just trying to add to the general knowledge of these tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> No worries about me taking over over your mantle as mad tube experimenter, just trying to add to the general knowledge of these tubes.



So that's a 'no thanks' then, I take it, cf....can I not _bribe_ you, ol' friend?!! ...


----------



## Johnnysound

connieflyer said:


> Well Johnnysound, your results parallel mine exactly. The only thing is with mine I stopped at a hundred and twenty hours to put a hundred hours or so on the clear CV 1052 tubes. Right now the clear Tubes are showing that they are very close to the coated tubes. I can hardly wait till I get over the hundred hour burn in on these, so I can go back to the coated tubes and continue There long-term burning. I think these are some of the best tubes that I have used. I used to think the gec 6as7g where my best drivers along with the 6080 but I haven't use those and probably 4 months and will probably put them up for sale I'm sure somebody could use that type of tube. I am going to stick with the CV tubes I can hardly wait to see just how good they will eventually get. Take care and good luck on your journey with these tubes



Hi, Cf,  It is great to know that your impressions, those of H1 and mine are totally coincident.   Now we can rest assured that our hearing (and our mental health) is perfectly ok (LOL). And yes, I also wondered if some changes in the sound were real or just my imagination...!    The fact that our systems are probably very different only confirms our findings...with Euforia as a preamp, the CV1052/EL32  quartet is very  useful as a reference to “tune up” my power amp,  (which has a great preamp section of its own) so you can roll pre tubes and perform an instant A/B comparison against  the reference.  

Fantastic  experience.  Since  this combo in the Euforia  is so utterly  neutral and quiet,  the sonic character of the other tubes is revealed at once.  Almost like a lab instrument, so here you go, another use for the Euforia...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi, Cf,  It is great to know that your impressions, those of H1 and mine are totally coincident.   Now we can rest assured that our hearing (and our mental health) is perfectly ok (LOL). And yes, I also wondered if some changes in the sound were real or just my imagination...!    The fact that our systems are probably very different only confirms our findings...with Euforia as a preamp, the CV1052/EL32  quartet is very  useful as a reference to “tune up” my power amp,  (which has a great preamp section of its own) so you can roll pre tubes and perform an instant A/B comparison against  the reference.
> 
> Fantastic  experience.  Since  this combo in the Euforia  is so utterly  neutral and quiet,  the sonic character of the other tubes is revealed at once.  *Almost like a lab instrument, so here you go, another use for the Euforia.*..



Yes indeed J...my current Euforia setup, even though rather humble compared to the new 2A3 flagship, should still be a very good reference for assessing the newcomer lol......(counting the days......or is that weeks/months?!! ).


----------



## connieflyer

Just remember H, you are reviewing in good faith for the rest of us!  Might make sense , that after you get the demo amp, for me to fly over to England and give it a listen!


----------



## Johnnysound

connieflyer said:


> Just remember H, you are reviewing in good faith for the rest of us!  Might make sense , that after you get the demo amp, for me to fly over to England and give it a listen!



Hi again Cf, very good idea !   I am located in Panama because of my job (an important airline hub) and plenty of flights to England are available!!


----------



## connieflyer

That's a great idea Johnny sound! We get a few more people we all go over there to H place, and we'll just party until the demo burns up! Of course with all this talk of a visit I have a feeling that H might decline the demo or at least changes address! Of course I couldn't blame him. Take care keep up the good work


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Erwan....welcome...and glad to hear you're another "happy owner" of an Euforia...an extremely good amp IMHO!!
> 
> You have some very good tubes there to spoil her with...and I'm sure a good few folks would be scratching their heads somewhat that you rate the fairly humble Sylvania combo over WE421A etc.!
> However, that's a prime example of everyone's tastes being different, along with accompanying gear lol. And all that's important in this hobby is what pleases your ears and brain...and as I've stressed many times before, the most important thing is to _trust your ears!!
> ...



Hi H1,

Thanks for this welcome message.

Yes, I put lot of my time (and money) in tube rolling on the Euforia, and I was surprised myself by the Sylvania6SN7GTB+TungSol6080WA combo over the whatever-driver+WE421A.
Now, I'm not saying the WE421A are bad in any way, they are actually one of the best tube to power out the Euforia: quite detailed, punchy, wide... better than the 5998 from TungSol (I own as well) in every way, but not that much as the 5998 are great tubes as well.
It's just that to my ears the Sylv+TS6080WA are outperforming all other tube combinations I've tried on the Eurforia, But I agree, it's definitely a matter of each one preference at this level.

Back to the 4xCV1052 combo, I remain skeptical. 
Yes, the sound is improving as the burn-in goes on (I'm at 50h+ now). 
Yes, those tubes allowed me to discover some new notes/details on tracks I thought I knew by heart. Yet, there are two drawbacks that keep on puzzling me:
1) background noise is revealed and can become too present on some tracks
2) if I can make an analogy to picture reviewing, it would be as if you were using a magnifying glass that would present some details you were previously missing, but that would also make all the rest of the picture "washed-out". Yes, the sound is wide and very detailed with those tubes, but it's also "hypertrophied" and somewhat "hollow", lacking precision, dynamics and depth.

Again, it's just my opinion, and things may keep-on arranging as the burn-in goes on, but the general lack of "incisiveness" is a problem to me. 
I actually enjoy the Euforia for the dynamics it brought to me, dynamics I've currently lost with those tubes. 

Thanks and regards,

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 14, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Just remember H, you are reviewing in good faith for the rest of us!  Might make sense , that after you get the demo amp, for me to fly over to England and give it a listen!





Johnnysound said:


> Hi again Cf, very good idea !   I am located in Panama because of my job (an important airline hub) and plenty of flights to England are available!!





connieflyer said:


> That's a great idea Johnny sound! We get a few more people we all go over there to H place, and we'll just party until the demo burns up! Of course with all this talk of a visit I have a feeling that H might decline the demo or at least changes address! Of course I couldn't blame him. Take care keep up the good work



Hey guys...that sounds a tremendous idea. But just be sure to bring your own coffee beans (I'll grind 'em!! )...methinks we'd be in for some pretty mammoth sessions, and in need of tons of caffeine lol!! .

And don't forget I'd also be wanting some honest opinions of just how (if!) my Euforia system might differ from your own! Plus, you might just find yourselves out of pocket when you hear the effects of Balanced Mains/Filter Conditioning and the use of Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires throughout...so be warned lol!! 

And on the subject of assessing the newcomer, I have discovered one of the main music pieces I shall be using for this task...Mahler's 5th Symphony, with Leonard Bernstein conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. The quality of recording is amazing, especially given its age, and the performance is outstanding. There must be very few pieces to match this in all its rich glory...from ear-shattering kettle drums, tubas and horns, through trombones, trumpets and woodwind to soaring strings and the most delicate chimes and triangles....utterly sensational.

And such massed 'turmoil' demands a very good sound system indeed to keep everything under tight control, and in perfect balance. Euforia, and the ST CV1052s (with the help of Hugo2 as DAC, etc...) handle all this with consummate ease - the mass of different instruments being kept sufficiently apart, but without loss of cohesion, and within a soundstage to die for (my T1s Gen1, with replacement UP-OCC cable, here being easily a match for the Senn HD800...).

Dynamics handling, from pianissimo to double forte, is superb... and although I recently may have implied that these tubes' bass excelled in quality and detail over _quantity, _this recording has proved more than enough of the latter to be present...any more in fact would overwhelm everything else. Simply perfect lol! Reproduction of the finest detail across the entire frequency range is such as I've never experienced before - better than with any other driver I've trialled, and better even as powers than the mighty 'Holy Grail' GEC 6AS7G variants and TFK EL12 Spezials...all of which also cost VASTLY more!!

And so I await comparing the new amp even _more_ now...it really is gonna have its work cut out to improve much upon this performance!...CHEERS...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> Thanks for this welcome message.
> 
> ...



Hi Erwan. Thanks for getting back to us, and explaining your findings.

Even without the full burn-in needed, it sounds to me like something is not at all right with your particular situation.

First, you shouldn't be getting any background noise _whatsoever_...these are the quietest tubes I have ever encountered, as confirmed by @connieflyer and @Johnnysound .
Plus, in my (and others') system, dynamics and precision are exemplary...even though the former does need a fair while to fully develop.

The difficulty is going to be finding out just what is causing the problem, alas!...:

1. If your tubes were NOS, they should be OK...assuming the pins, and the top metal cap, are shiny clean!
2. Hopefully, your adapters are good...but sometimes it's difficult to know if they're 100%, especially if you haven't made your own lol! And check the top cap connection is good and tight!
3. On rare occasions, and if one is very unlucky, with these tubes being triode-strapped pentodes, they can be prone to distortion from external sources of interference - EMI/RFI - from such equipment as nearby mobile/cordless 'phones; routers; 'fridges; air-con etc. etc....and not just in your immediate vicinity!! Not to mention possible mains interference!

From what you say about background noise, at least one of these areas must be involved, so I can only advise that you do extensive checking where you can, and hope you manage to pinpoint the culprit(s) concerned. It might also be a good idea to swap tubes around, and mix with others, to try and eliminate a possible bad one...

So good luck in this quest...I wish you all the best, as you are evidently not getting the performance you should be from these particular tubes...unfortunately. CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Have to agree with H on this. these tubes both the clear and the coated are dead silent. There is apparently something else in your system or a bad tube to cause this. If your system is dead quiet with other tubes then you can try to swat tubes to find the offender.  If you have more than the four tubes you could try swapping in another, or use some drivers that you are sure are quiet and swap in the EL's a pair at a time until you hear the noise, to try to locate a bad or noisy tube. Wish you luck.


----------



## ZRW0

Guys, sorry my message may have been misleading.

I don't think there's any problem with the tubes.
If there's no signal, then there's no noise.
If the record I'm listening to has no background noise, then there's no noise.
Now, if the record I'm listening to HAS some background noise (even a few - I have some of my favorite discs in this case: but I'm used to hear and stand this noise with solid a state amp or other tubes on the Euforia), then this background noise is amplified as well (such as those details we only discovered with those tubes) and becoming rather uncomfortable to me...

Erwan.


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Guys, sorry my message may have been misleading.
> 
> I don't think there's any problem with the tubes.
> If there's no signal, then there's no noise.
> ...


Hi ZR,
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the increased resolution also increases the background noise and audio clues, and amplifies it, along with details in the music that you did not hear before - correct?
I have experienced this with a different amp and different tubes. In my case it is a case of synergy between driver and power tubes.
Some combinations bring up all the background audio clues into the front and overwhelm you with too much information. Other tube combinations manage to have very high resolution, but the background remains in proportion and does not move up into the front of the sound stage. You can hear everything that goes on in the recording if you want, but the presentation is not overwhelming you with information, and you can enjoy the music in a relaxed way, as well as hearing all of the background details if you concentrate on it.


----------



## ZRW0 (Oct 15, 2018)

mordy said:


> Hi ZR,
> If I understand you correctly you are saying that the increased resolution also increases the background noise and audio clues, and amplifies it, along with details in the music that you did not hear before - correct?



Yes, correct. You captured it well Mordy.
Now, it may be a matter of insufficient burn-in with my tubes.

I've decided to put aside the CV1052 burn-in for a few days, and to try a combination I actually forgot to experiment: Ken-Rad-VT231 + WE421A.
And this last combo is absolutely gorgeous:

wide enough, although CV1052s are the best here
very detailed, while not flooding the noise upfront (if there's some on the track)
accurate and vivid as I like, while being neither too bright nor "too bassy" nor tiring...


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 15, 2018)

ZRW0 said:


> Yes, correct. You captured it well Mordy.
> Now, it may be a matter of insufficient burn-in with my tubes.
> 
> I've decided to put aside the CV1052 burn-in for a few days, and to try a combination I actually forgot to experiment: Ken-Rad-VT231 + WE421A.
> ...



Hi ZRW0.

So, there isn't any kind of obvious distortion apparent (?), which would indeed probably discount the possible causes of problem I mentioned...

It is therefore looking like you do need MUCH more time yet with these tubes - not only for they themselves to develop fully, but also for you yourself to 'acclimatise' to their presentation. Triode-strapped pentodes - like all the EL tube family used this way - do seem to present in a slightly different way to the double triodes used in this (and other) amps, and some folks take a while to become accustomed to this sound.
So I can only recommend that you spend a lot more time yet living with these tubes - if you so choose lol!  And hopefully the traits that annoy you at present will subside a good deal as time goes by. But as always, everyone's ears and preferences are different, so finally you must stay with what pleases you most...there's no single setup that will appeal to all.

Also, the rest of one's equipment will have a great bearing on the final outcome...that wonderful (and sometimes frustrating!) word : 'synergy'.

So good luck with your own quest for audio nirvana! 

ps. That's a really nice combo you've shown here...and one that will cause a good few green eyes, no doubt!!...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## skizuki (Oct 16, 2018)

Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte

Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 17, 2018)

skizuki said:


> Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte
> 
> Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?



Hi skizuki, and welcome.

First, congrats on choosing Euforia - I'm sure you will find this amp an extremely good one (even if I am slightly biased lol!). And double congrats on having the Hugo2...this pairs superbly with Euforia and, IMHO, provides a 'better' sound (ie _smoother_) than the already excellent one from H2's headphone out.

As for the RCA cable connection, this is not an easy one - for 2 reasons.

1. Some folks prefer copper, some silver. A certain degree will depend upon the rest of the system....if on the bright side, then (good!) copper might be better. Otherwise, I personally would recommend (again, _good_) silver - which I've been using for years now with both Elise and Euforia. Great clarity, FR coverage, and wonderful treble handling. And I have never found silver lacking in the bass department! With my T1s (Gen1), heavily treble-oriented recordings could occasionally be a tad strident, but not enough to outweigh the advantages. But now I've replaced the cable with my own, using Neotech solid silver (and copper) UP-OCC wires, there is no such downside. As you have the Gen2 cans, treble should be less of an issue, so I would think silver to be a good choice.

2. Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables *will not fit!!*...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the _*entire*_ length of the plug is _*no more than 1.3mm*_ (Edit : as corrected below, that should be *13 mm*, of course!) in outside diameter. If they taper the slightest amount, you're in trouble!...because - another bone of contention for me - the positive contact bar inside H2 is set back _so_ far, that the plug's pin must travel its full length to be sure of making good contact. And so it's also a good idea to try and find cables with _long_ pins to their plugs, if at all possible.

Just as an aside, I personally bit the bullet in the end and decided to open it up(!!) and see if connecting direct via the_ internal_ headphone connection (I _hate_ connectors!) would work...and it does lol...superbly!!  (The hp connection is vastly superior to the RCAs, IMO). By attaching extension pieces of (again) UP-OCC silver and copper wires - also in my DIY interconnects - I could then make direct wire-to-wire contact with these, and eliminate yet another connector. Easier though, of course, would be to simply attach one end of the IC cable to a very good headphone jack, if DIY inclined!

Hopefully this has given you a bit more of an idea what to look out for....and GOOD LUCK!...And happy listening when you finally receive your Euforia...CHEERS!.. CJ


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables *will not fit!!*...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the _*entire*_ length of the plug is _*no more than 1.3mm*_ in diameter.


Hei, CJ! Now that's odd!  13 mm?


----------



## attmci

Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables *will not fit!!*...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the _*entire*_ length of the plug is _*no more than 1.3mm*_ in diameter.



Oskari said:


> Hei, CJ! Now that's odd!  13 mm?



???


----------



## hypnos1

attmci said:


> Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables *will not fit!!*...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the _*entire*_ length of the plug is _*no more than 1.3mm*_ in diameter.
> 
> 
> 
> ???





Oskari said:


> Hei, CJ! Now that's odd!  13 mm?



Ah...'senior moment' guys....(I'll blame it on the Chicken Pox!! ).

Thanks for the quick spot...it should have been *13 mm *of course, not 1.3!....SORRY!!... (Promise to do better next time lol ).


----------



## skizuki

hypnos1 said:


> Hi skizuki, and welcome.
> 
> First, congrats on choosing Euforia - I'm sure you will find this amp an extremely good one (even if I am slightly biased lol!). And double congrats on having the Hugo2...this pairs superbly with Euforia and, IMHO, provides a 'better' sound (ie _smoother_) than the already excellent one from H2's headphone out.
> 
> ...



Thank you hypnos1. Since I'm still a rookie to tube amp, I will try this 7N UPOCC first: NEOTECH NEI-2200 SILVER INTERCONNECT CABLE 1M RCA

To me Hugo2 is superb in dynamic and details, but I just feel it lacks of "human" and "passion".... well I don't know how to describe it.  And this is the reason why I go for Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 17, 2018)

Hi again @skizuki ...hope you noticed the..er..'deliberate' wink mistake re. the RCA plug outer diameter measurement, as kindly pointed out to me by the sharp-eyed guys ...

Another thing you may already have discovered about the H2 line output (if you've used it this way yet) is that you don't have to stick to just the 'fixed' line level out. Using the volume control on the remote, you can alter the level out to the amp as you please (but probably best not to go to max!). And so, in effect, this becomes a remote for controlling Euforia's volume, once it's set to an 'average' level (I myself find between 12 o'clock and 1)...very handy indeed lol!

This is thanks to power coming direct from the FPGA chip (with no op-amp needed) for both headphone and line out. Hence my gamble that I could in fact use the hp out as _line_ out! 

And so despite the gripes I mentioned previously, I believe the Hugo2 to be a top ranking DAC...with the added bonus of headphone functionality thrown in. Plus, to be thus in such a small form factor is quite amazing!

ps. And even though Chord (and the circuit creator, Rob Watts) believe using external amps to be somewhat inferior to straight hp use, I'm sure you - like myself- will wholeheartedly disagree lol!


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## hypnos1 (Oct 17, 2018)

skizuki said:


> Thank you hypnos1. Since I'm still a rookie to tube amp, I will try this 7N UPOCC first: NEOTECH NEI-2200 SILVER INTERCONNECT CABLE 1M RCA
> 
> To me Hugo2 is superb in dynamic and details, but I just feel it lacks of "human" and "passion".... well I don't know how to describe it.  And this is the reason why I go for Euforia.



Hi again s.

Is that cable from Hong Kong, at $2200? From what I can see, it doesn't look like proper Neotech wire at all! There is, unfortunately, a lot of fake 'UP-OCC' wire in the Far East...so PLEASE do some homework first before spending that kind of money. FAR better, and cheaper!!, would be to get some Neotech wire (Edit : _cable_) from a reputable Neotech supplier, and find someone to attach nice plugs for you, if you can't manage it yourself...but just remember the need for RCA plugs NO LARGER in outer diameter than 13mm for the entire length of the applicable part!...CHEERS!..CJ


----------



## skizuki

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again s.
> 
> Is that cable from Hong Kong, at $2200? From what I can see, it doesn't look like proper Neotech wire at all! There is, unfortunately, a lot of fake 'UP-OCC' wire in the Far East...so PLEASE do some homework first before spending that kind of money. FAR better, and cheaper!!, would be to get some Neotech wire from a reputable Neotech supplier, and find someone to attach nice plugs for you, if you can't manage it yourself...but just remember the need for RCA plugs NO LARGER in outer diameter than 13mm for the entire length of the applicable part!...CHEERS!..CJ



wow thanks for reminding me the suspicious online shop!  I'll probably bring my Hugo2 to try out in an authorized shop.


----------



## hypnos1

skizuki said:


> wow thanks for reminding me the suspicious online shop!  I'll probably bring my Hugo2 to try out in an authorized shop.



Thank goodness you didn't go for that fake-looking cable from HK!!... Before I knew better (and read Neotech's warnings about fake wire in Asia - these fraudsters sometimes even use the Neotech name lol!!), I naively thought I was getting some bargain 'UP-OCC' silver wire from an ebayer in Taiwan/China. Luckily, it didn't arrive, and good ol' ebay sorted a refund.

In case you haven't found these sites yet, here's one for showing their silver cables - and list of suppliers - plus one for the sort of DIY cable available, and cost. As you can see, I would imagine that as I mentioned before, you could probably save yourself a lot of money by getting just the cable (I used the XLR version, but for RCA), and trying to find someone to attach good plugs for you...

http://www.neotechcable.com/product2_1.php
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-interconnect.html

And yes, you're spot on about the H2 sound direct out via headphones...something not quite right IMHO - especially when one has come to love _good_ 'tube sound', over SS!  And so you'll soon (hopefully!) be in store for a real treat, skizuki...


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 17, 2018)

Hi guys.

Just as an adjunct to my last words to ZRW0 re. the different signature of all EL triode-strapped pentodes compared to 6SN7/6AS7G tubes, I have just been reminded big time of how their high resolution (the EL32 family especially) - along with that of my Hugo2 as DAC plus Euforia and T1s - highlights differences in how music has been engineered in the first place.

Compilations on one CD of the same singer/artist are prime sources to detect such differences, and Kate Bush's 'Whole Story' is a very good example...the style of engineering/recording from track to track varies quite unbelievably, with massive variation in voice and instrument positioning especially, as well as emphasis on different parts of the FR.

And so, along with a more balanced IMHO delivery that may at first appear to have less 'slam' than some other tubes, this can sometimes take a while to fully notice/appreciate...it certainly did in my own case! The only downside with my current setup is that it shows no mercy to poorly, or 'quirkily' recorded material...something I'm quite happy to live with, however lol!


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Just as an adjunct to my last words to ZRW0 re. the different signature of all EL triode-strapped pentodes compared to 6SN7/6AS7G tubes, I have just been reminded big time of how their high resolution (the EL32 family especially) - along with that of my Hugo2 as DAC plus Euforia and T1s - highlights differences in how music has been engineered in the first place.
> 
> ...



Hi H1,

Yes, I fully agree regarding the detestable musical engineering differences on compilations, and didn't need the quad EL32s to notice it  
The "Best Of Joe Cocker" (this album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Joe_Cocker_(1992_album) ) is a perfect example of such a disaster for an audiophile...

Back to EL32s, burn-in is progressing on my side (+40 more hours), and results are improving quite well actually. 
Sound balance is more accurate, basses are deeper, dynamic is more vivid. The combo finally becomes enjoyable.

Something I noticed though, is that I have to put the volume knob to some significant higher levels to get a correct sound with the quad EL32s.
With 6SN7/6AS7 tubes, I normally set the knob at 8.30-9.00 to get a correct level for both my HD800S and Tror, 
With the quad EL32s, I need to set it to 10.00-10.30 for the HD800, and even to 11.00-11.30 for the Kennerton. 
This is a bit strange as the Tror is supposed to have a sensitivity similar to the HD800 while having a much lower impedance. If directly plugged to the Hugo2, the same volume setting correctly applies to both headphones (same as with the Euforia with 6SN7/6AS7 combo)... Now, the Tror is a planar and might be more difficult to match (?)...

Regards,

Erwan.


----------



## aqsw (Oct 17, 2018)

Hey Guys,
I retired, and took my office rig home (Elise and Hegel HD12 dac). I have no real place to hook this up and thinking
of selling. I feel real sad getting rid of this rig. I have never been emotionly involved with gear before! I love Feliks  Audio gear.


----------



## aqsw

skizuki said:


> Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte
> 
> Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?



I use the Morrow MA5 interconnects. I am astonished!
The Morrows really won me over. I started with he entry MA1s and I just keep upgrading.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> Yes, I fully agree regarding the detestable musical engineering differences on compilations, and didn't need the quad EL32s to notice it
> The "Best Of Joe Cocker" (this album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Joe_Cocker_(1992_album) ) is a perfect example of such a disaster for an audiophile...
> ...



 Yo, Erwan, there sure are some rubbish sound engineers/producers out there...either that or their hearing is pretty abominable lol! 

And yes, with these particular EL tubes, power output is less than the 11s or 12s for example, and so the vol knob will need to be turned up higher. But fortunately, I find I still don't ever need to go much beyond 12 o'clock, which is fine by me!

Glad to hear things are improving for you with further burn-in...as the rest of us have found. And as @Johnnysound mentioned, the rate of change is not as 'linear' as with most other tubes - it has a rather strange set of steps, to say the least! This is in fact something I found before with other EL tubes - for some reason, they can make sudden, unexpected leaps at odd intervals...weird lol! And just as you think they've probably reached their peak, they decide to confound you once more...nicely surprising/confusing!

And pondering further on J's thoughts that this long and different burn-in nature is down to the cool running, I'm now convinced that this must in fact be the root cause....for all the EL tubes - especially these EL32/CV1052 - given previous experience. Not only because of the very low heater power requirement, and therefore lower cathode temperature, but also the lower plate (anode) temps that are evident in our particular amps' circuits...hence they take longer to cook!! ...('Elementary, my dear Watson'! )....perhaps!.....

And so I hope you too will benefit from said improvements with even more time on your own tubes...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 18, 2018)

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys,
> I retired, and took my office rig home (Elise and Hegel HD12 dac). I have no real place to hook this up and thinking
> of selling. I feel real sad getting rid of this rig. I have never been emotionly involved with gear before! I love Feliks  Audio gear.





aqsw said:


> I use the Morrow MA5 interconnects. I am astonished!
> The Morrows really won me over. I started with he entry MA1s and I just keep upgrading.



Hi aqsw.

Sorry to hear your Elise has become redundant...but at least you still have Euforia lol!...(which I hope you're still in love with ). I hear you re. F-A's gear getting one emotionally involved...I've never been so deeply immersed in a hobby before! And which is getting my wallet seriously worried once their new flagship amp finally arrives ...

Those Morrow MA5 ICs do certainly look very nice, and good value...given how impressed you are with them. I must admit though, looking at the prices of their upgrade cables, I personally would have liked to see the use of UP-OCC wire in some of them. I notice also they use multi-strand as opposed to fewer, thicker solid wires - probably a debate that will go on forever more lol!! 

I do like their option for Eichmann KLE 'Harmony' series RCA plugs in the higher grade offerings...a nice improvement in RCA design (even if not looking so 'fancy') that I believe to be a good step up from the traditional. I certainly found the 'Pure Harmony' ones to help give a bit more clarity, detail and expansive soundstage...before I dispensed with them completely, and gained even more!...(even though this is a rather drastic move, and not practical for most folks alas ). But one thing I must stress for Hugo2 owners : _*they don't fit!!*_...the 'jaws' are too big. When using them, I had to file them down to size...a bit of a hassle, but at least I could then use 'em!

Good luck with moving on your Elise, aq...a very good amp indeed...I'm sure you will miss her (retirement sometimes has a lot to answer for...but just think of the extra Euforia time you can have - hopefully!!)...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## ZRW0 (Oct 18, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, Erwan, there sure are some rubbish sound engineers/producers out there...either that or their hearing is pretty abominable lol!
> 
> And yes, with these particular EL tubes, power output is less than the 11s or 12s for example, and so the vol knob will need to be turned up higher. But fortunately, I find I still don't ever need to go much beyond 12 o'clock, which is fine by me!
> 
> ...



Hi CJ,

I also noticed the step effect, and was actually wondering if it wasn't due to the heating phase at every startup. To me it seems the tubes mostly improve every time they are switched off and then on.

On my side, I'll put aside the CV1052s for a while. I received an other set of "babies" today (Ken-Rad-VT99 + TungSol-7236), and just started to burn them in.


Out of the box, they already give a spectacular look to the Euforia (black & chrome with the red adapters for the 6F8Gs), and yet again at the first listening session they seem to provide a better sound than every other combinations I tried before !
Gosh, this "game" has no end...


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi CJ,
> 
> I also noticed the step effect, and was actually wondering if it wasn't due to the heating phase at every startup. To me it seems the tubes mostly improve every time they are switched off and then on.
> 
> ...



Aha ZRW0...you're discovering just how easy it is to succumb to the addiction many of us are already trying to break lol!!...but there are worse ones, no?!! 

And you're also seeing how different combinations in Euforia will give you that 'WOW' factor...have lost count of the number of times this has happened to me! . And it will probably also take you yourself a long time of experiencing such differences, before hitting on the (main) one that becomes pretty well permanent... each combo will have its own merits.

It's a fascinating, if sometimes frustrating journey, to be sure. But certainly one full of enjoyment and surprises....even if it often appears to have 'no end'!...('Bottomless rabbit hole' is often quoted!!). So keep those lovely photos coming, as well as your findings. But remember, all tubes will alter with time...and sometimes not always for the better, it would seem...

As for the changes noticed between ons and offs, this is why it's normally recommended for the burn-in procedure to follow : 7 to 8 hrs play time, with about 1 hr cooling period before next burn... the cooling time is just as important as the playing. But even taking this into account, the EL32/CV1052s still undergo this process somewhat differently to normal, as time goes by lol.

So enjoy the thrill of discovering new 'sounds', on the journey to what suits you best in the end...(end?...hmmm...who knows when that might be?!! ). But most of all, ENJOY!...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love the 7236 in the Euforia. Have you had time to listen?


----------



## ZRW0 (Oct 20, 2018)

Ultrainferno said:


> I love the 7236 in the Euforia. Have you had time to listen?



I'm listening-to/burning them for a couple of days now, while switching and trying them with various driver tubes.
Not all drivers match them well (Sylvania 6SN7GTB and RCA5692 are pretty deceiving - bass are  soft, and upper-mids and trebble are weak), but with VT231s (Ken-Rad or even better Pavane MkII), they are just amazing !
The Euforia becomes quite punchy, while still detailed, subtle and soft when needed.

I've also listened to the pre-amp part connected to my speaker amp, and here as well the results are outstanding ! I've never seen (actually heard) such precision and dynamic on my system.

To me (and so far  ) they are the best power tubes I tried with the Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

The 7236 is one power tube I have not tried.  Hope you continue to enjoy your setup.  And keep us up to date on your progress with the tubes. You will help to expand our knowledge base on this amp.  Have fun!


----------



## ZRW0

connieflyer said:


> The 7236 is one power tube I have not tried.  Hope you continue to enjoy your setup.  And keep us up to date on your progress with the tubes. You will help to expand our knowledge base on this amp.  Have fun!



I'll try to do a detailed comparison of 6080 vs 5998 vs 421A vs 7236 on the Euforia, as I now own all those tubes.
But the problem comes with the huge number of combination with the driver tubes. For a given power tube, the combo with some driver can provide either a meh or a great experience...
In a nutshell, from my trials:
- the following are great combos: RCA-5692/TS-5998, KENRAD-VT231/WE421A, SYLV-6SN7GTB/TS-6080WA, PSVANE-VT231/TS-7236, and the quad ST coated CV1052s looks promising.
- the ones I don't recommend: RCA-5692/TS-7236, SYLV-6SN7GTB/TS-7236, KENRAD-VT231/TS-6080WA.   
- and I had major flows with my TFK-EL12SPEZ trials, whatever the power tube used: major noise, and other gremlins...


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys.

Although I thought I was done with my 'Midnight Missives' after all this time - and even though I ought to be heeding the call of my comfortable bed! - I feel compelled once again to bore folks with what must be the biggest jaw-dropping moment of my entire time in Elise and Euforia land. And yes, it's still concerning my quad ST CV1052s...

Either my ears just got 30 years younger, or my previous words are coming home with a vengeance...ie. just as I thought my tubes had reached their peak, they're confounding me yet again.

After more hours than I can count, I'm  currently revisiting my favourite test piece with which every combo since I began has had to face the jury - ie. the music score from the film 'Gladiator'. Many times I have marvelled at the tremendous skill of whoever engineered this recording, as well as Hans Zimmer and the performance itself, but *never* have I heard it like this before....and I've played it _hundreds_ of times lol! With so many hours' burn-in on them already, either they decided to make a massive sudden leap in performance or, which I suspect more likely, is probably due to my recent long and many sessions of Mahler's Symphonies. Why? Because these must be among the richest, densest, most dynamic pieces of music ever composed and recorded... and with a vast range of instruments that cover a massive frequency spectrum, from thunderous bass to the most delicate treble...aided and abetted by some wonderfully balanced recordings that allow all the different sections of the orchestra to shine sublimely. 

It's probably no coincidence therefore that this further 'conditioning' of the tubes has helped transform the Gladiator music such that my Euforia almost sounds like a different amp. This is highlighted especially in the 'Battle' track, which also has massive orchestration and dynamics, a la Mahler! Bass is the most impressive I've yet heard from this amp...or my T1s!! The massed instrumentation is now delivered with such distinct separation that is uncanny, to say the least...but still perfectly cohesive. I cannot believe this is the same piece of music I've heard so many times before...I am totally, utterly gobsmacked. And I haven't been this way for a _very  _long time!

I could go on for much longer on just what I've been hearing this past hour, but my eyes are beginning to close, so I'll say g'night all....

ps. @connieflyer and @Johnnysound ...as you both must be getting close to the hours I myself have put on these tubes, all I can say is..._keep them in_...I'm sure you too will soon have this same revelatory moment - on top of those you've already had lol!! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> I'm listening-to/burning them for a couple of days now, while switching and trying them with various driver tubes.
> Not all drivers match them well (Sylvania 6SN7GTB and RCA5692 are pretty deceiving - bass are  soft, and upper-mids and trebble are weak), but with VT231s (Ken-Rad or even better Pavane MkII), they are just amazing !
> The Euforia becomes quite punchy, while still detailed, subtle and soft when needed.
> 
> ...


Hi ZRW0,
As you mention, synergy is of paramount importance and tubes that don't sound good paired with certain tubes may sound excellent with others.
I never had any luck with the 7236 tubes and found them more ss like in their sound, but I don't have the driver tubes that you liked the best.
In my experience, the best power tubes in the Euforia were the GEC 6080 but they are very expensive and hard to find.
Lucked out when I found a Russian seller that had three unlabeled tubes listed as CV2984, and did not know what they were.


----------



## connieflyer

I have the GEC 6080's and I would agree that they are very good as power tubes in this amp.  I have only about 50 hours on this pair, as I was looking for the GEC AS7G's and could not find any at that time.  So after listening to the 6080's for a short time, of course the GEC 6AS7G's became available so jumped on those.  I have about 120 hours on the GEC 6AS7G's but have not used them in about six months. If anyone is looking for a very low hour pair of GEC 6080's let me know.  I am going to sell off most of my tubes in preparation for the possible purchase of a new amp. I will make a good price on the GEC's for members here.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 20, 2018)

Got a lot of catching up to do in time on the exciting developments here... just a quick comment. That's fascinating the 7236's are reported to do well on the Euforia. And those were preferrable to the EL32, dynamics wise? I found them to have an off kilter tonality on the Elise and ditched them before trying on the Euforia, so either it's a  special synergy pairing, or even specific user's sonic preferences. I just may pick up 2 pairs to use as powers in a multi externally powered combo down the line.

Also for me, even with my favorite pairing ever which was with 6x EL32/CV1052 powers (externally powered 4x straight form + 2x ST-shape which was all that was available), + Valvo EL11 or Valvo EL12 drivers, in hindsight I realise it seemed to be slightly trailing the best in terms of 'body' / fullness... but still so exquisite that I'll take it anyday considering my best ever was not technically sound. (6336 + 4x EL32 powers)


----------



## connieflyer

H1, just dialed up Gladiator, I have not listened to it in awhile.  I  am mightly  impressed!  It never sounded so good, as with these coated cv1052's!  The clarity is amazing,  Lisa Gerrard never sounded so clear, and spacious. Thanks for reminding me about this recording, had been meaning to try it again but had not until your timely post.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 21, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> H1, just dialed up Gladiator, I have not listened to it in awhile.  I  am mightly  impressed!  It never sounded so good, as with these coated cv1052's!  The clarity is amazing,  Lisa Gerrard never sounded so clear, and spacious. Thanks for reminding me about this recording, had been meaning to try it again but had not until your timely post.



Hi cf.

Glad you gave this tremendous recording another look. I've listened to this so many times now, I'd almost thought myself _way_ overdosed lol!! But last night it was as though it was a different recording...192kHz, 24 bit sound from 'plain' CD. And _all_ the tracks, not just the mighty 'Battle', were the same - separation/placement/detail/individual instrument tone etc. like I've never heard before. I'm still in total amazement as I wake up this morning....and I haven't even had my essential dose of caffeine yet!! So must get the kettle on...and wipe this silly grin off my face!!! ...BFN...

ps.Yes indeed cf, Lisa Gerrard's voice has also never sounded so 'smoky', and with such depth of feeling and effect...*glorious!
*
pps. Caffeine withdrawal (temporarily) sorted, and the silly grin is sillier than ever lol!  Could well be down to the 5.1 surround (but perfectly focused) sound still swirling around my head...pretty amazing for headphones and a 2 track recording...(need another coffee...'bye...).


----------



## connieflyer

Hi H, I am hearing the exact same thing! Sound is coming from eveyrwhere, and lots of it. This bass is starting to fill in more as well.  The bass was always accurate, but now the volume of bass is fuller, richer if you will. I am so glad I stayed with these tubes and gave them the time they need to mature.  Don't know how much more to expect, but even if they did not improve anymore, I am a happy camper.  It just seems like they reach a plateau, and level off, sound great, and then, for no apparent reason, they improve a little more.  and then plateau again. Very strange, but so much enjoyment.  It almost like waiting for Christmas morning, to see what Santa has brought you! Well I too, need more caffeine, it seems like these coffee cups have a hole in them, a cup does not last as long as it used to!


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> I have the GEC 6080's and I would agree that they are very good as power tubes in this amp.  I have only about 50 hours on this pair, as I was looking for the GEC AS7G's and could not find any at that time.  So after listening to the 6080's for a short time, of course the GEC 6AS7G's became available so jumped on those.  I have about 120 hours on the GEC 6AS7G's but have not used them in about six months. If anyone is looking for a very low hour pair of GEC 6080's let me know.  I am going to sell off most of my tubes in preparation for the possible purchase of a new amp. I will make a good price on the GEC's for members here.



Connieflyer, could you pm me about GEC 6AS7? Thanks.


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> Hi ZRW0,
> As you mention, synergy is of paramount importance and tubes that don't sound good paired with certain tubes may sound excellent with others.
> I never had any luck with the 7236 tubes and found them more ss like in their sound, but I don't have the driver tubes that you liked the best.
> In my experience, the best power tubes in the Euforia were the GEC 6080 but they are very expensive and hard to find.
> Lucked out when I found a Russian seller that had three unlabeled tubes listed as CV2984, and did not know what they were.



Agree, lighter sounding GEC 6080s work very well with T1 and HD650. Richer sounding GEC 6AS7s (with some neutral drivers TSRP/Sylvania 6SN7WGT) match HD800 and HD600 heavenly, especially for small scale string music. 

Recently, i have been listening quite a bit of 421a based amp (Fi 421a amp clone?) and desktop speakers. Headphone setting still has advantage of detail and intimacy.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi H, I am hearing the exact same thing! Sound is coming from eveyrwhere, and lots of it. This bass is starting to fill in more as well.  The bass was always accurate, but now the volume of bass is fuller, richer if you will. I am so glad I stayed with these tubes and gave them the time they need to mature.  Don't know how much more to expect, but even if they did not improve anymore, I am a happy camper.  It just seems like they reach a plateau, and level off, sound great, and then, for no apparent reason, they improve a little more.  and then plateau again. Very strange, but so much enjoyment.  It almost like waiting for Christmas morning, to see what Santa has brought you! Well I too, need more caffeine, it seems like these coffee cups have a hole in them, a cup does not last as long as it used to!



Yo cf...you're definitely reaping the benefits of time... more time...and yet _*more*_ time lol . These tubes don't give too much initial "WOW", but develop more than any others I have ever tried. 

And something you mentioned in your previous post - 'clarity' - reminded me once more of my long-standing love affair with the C3g...ever since I experimented with it for use way back in my LittleDot MKIV SE days. It is _crystal_ clear in its presentation, and has tremendous treble 'sparkle'. The problem is, however, that it can sometimes sound a tad harsh with 'bright' recordings and/or other such oriented gear . But these otherwise excellent virtues displayed themselves beautifully again this afternoon, when revisiting another of my stalwart test CDs - Supertramp's  remastered (2010) 'Breakfast in America'. Whereas the C3gs would render this somewhat bright recording too tiring after just a short while, these ST CV1052s retain the same crystal clear 'sparkle', but much more smoothly, and allow me to turn up the volume without my ears objecting too much...something I can also do, by the way, with more 'thunderous' fare - the bass especially not becoming 'boomy' or overwhelming, but satisfyingly deep, rich and tight. And this higher volume listening level brings its other advantages, of course...

The more of my old test tracks I go back to once again, the more amazed I become at the different sound I'm now experiencing. And so I can't wait to retrace the (many!) steps I've been taking on my 'test bed' these past few years...with the added bonus that I shan't now be itching to try too much new fare - my old favourites have a new glory to behold, as with seeing treasured films and recorded programmes on a new 4K TV screen (so long as well recorded in the first place lol!!). This is one _very_ happy bunny......


----------



## connieflyer

I agree with you on the C3G's, I really enjoyed them on my Elise, very good sound from them, for the most part. Sold them off with the Elise, and a whole lot of tubes, that I could still be using!  Dumb. but these CV's are getting a whole lot of use, and just keep getting better. I better start selling off some more tubes, these are not going anywhere for awhile.  Sold my Gec' to a member here and hope he enjoys them.  I was going to continue burning in the clear cv's past a hundred,  but they sound fine, and wanted to get more time on the coated ones, and glad I did.  They just keep on giving.  Thanks again for these H1, makes me smile as soon as I put the phones on.  Using almost every night now, including burning in for eight hours during the morning, day.  Still hard to believe after being on for eight hours, the Euforia is still so cool to the touch.  Of course in the winter up North here, the 6080's helped with the heat bill!


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 23, 2018)

A well mastered album I recommend is *Guilty by Barbara Streisand* (1980) The album was done with Barry Gibb from the Bee Gees and I guess they may be 'Guilty' of something together Lol! I'm still out with my transportable rig but I recon it must sound sensational on the Euforia!


I also recommend the album *E=mc2 (1979) by Giorgio Moroder*, one of the most significant early electronic music pioneers of the 1970's

note: with both albums there are several releases with varying mastering quality


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 24, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> A well mastered album I recommend is *Guilty by Barbara Streisand* (1980) The album was done with Barry Gibb from the Bee Gees and I guess they may be 'Guilty' of something together Lol! I'm still out with my transportable rig but I *recon it must sound sensational on the Euforia!*
> 
> 
> I also recommend the album *E=mc2 (1979) by Giorgio Moroder*, one of the most significant early electronic music pioneers of the 1970's
> ...




Hi DL...yes indeed, this is an extremely well engineered album and certainly does sound sensational on Euforia lol!  Thanks for reminding me of one of my favourite CDs, that I'm revisiting along with all my others and, as with them, it's like I've never heard before. Barbra's technical skill, along with bags of emotion in 'A Woman in Love' and 'The Love Inside' are wonderful and some of her best work IMHO...easily matching another favourite of her I truly love (in another album) - 'By the Way'. I would love to see more recent/contemporary 'star' singers try to handle these _real_ tests of a singer's ability...on second thoughts, I'll pass on that, thanks!! 


At the moment I'm listening to Bach's Brandenburg Concertos (Academy of Ancient Music/Richard Egarr on Harmonia Mundi) in hi-res, and...WOW!! The clarity, detail and expansive soundstage of this extremely good recording are breathtaking. And now, on my system, with all 4 ST CV1052s _*well*_ burned in (over 150hrs), as  @connieflyer and @Johnnysound have confirmed, the dynamics, depth and richness of sound are lacking in nothing whatsoever...ie. no need for multiple tube setups lol!!  (Which, as I've mentioned before, Feliks-Audio will not countenance whatsoever...especially anyone using Chinese _multi_-adapters).

Hope you're still enjoying your travels, DL...I expect you'll be glad to get back to base so you can enjoy some more Euforia time......CHEERS!...CJ
,


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 25, 2018)

Hi guys...just a quickie.

Spurred on by @connieflyer 's mention of F-A's coverage on Facebook, I've just been pleasantly surprised at how much more widely known their name and products have become. Anyone who, like me, hasn't yet had a peek, might find it interesting also. I didn't realise so many of their amps have a good selection of 3rd party reviews...there's evidently a big hi-fi world out there beyond head-fi lol!

It's nice to see Feliks-Audio becoming very well known and respected beyond their homeland, and it's gratifying to think that Elise and Euforia have been instrumental in helping them develop their horizons in this way. I wish them all the very best for their future in this field (as I always have done lol!), and hope the upcoming new flagship amp will catapult them to even greater heights. I'm quite sure it will!...can't wait!! ...

Thank you, F-A...for many, many hours of blissful listening. And I look forward to many, many more...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

F-A is getting a foot hold over here.  They will need to do more demo amps, to get more people to be able to compare with other high end machines.  Now over 150 hours on the CV 1052's and the bass has opened up.  It is more structured and impactful.  No longer just "there" it is now in control and plentiful.  Was surprised by it yesterday, as it sounded off with authority and I had to reply the piece I was listening to, and sure enough it is more than before.  Thanks H1 for these tubes, they are making "music"!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> F-A is getting a foot hold over here.  They will need to do more demo amps, to get more people to be able to compare with other high end machines.  Now over 150 hours on the CV 1052's and the bass has opened up.  It is more structured and impactful.  No longer just "there" it is now in control and plentiful.  Was surprised by it yesterday, as it sounded off with authority and I had to reply the piece I was listening to, and sure enough it is more than before.  Thanks H1 for these tubes, they are making "music"!



Yes indeed cf...more outlets to demo their products are definitely needed, and not just in the USA. But it must be quite a daunting task to organise such worldwide 'in the flesh' facilities, along with enabling direct purchasing. It would appear F-A are indeed now finding more folks in the industry keen on showing their products, which hopefully will encourage others to help F-A gain a larger global foothold. These things must surely take a good while to come into effect...a long-term commitment that Lukasz said the whole family was aiming for at CanJam London last year, and one not to be taken lightly, methinks! 

And yo, I think bass takes the longest to _fully_ develop with these tubes...but is well worth waiting for IMHO. It has been a fascinating see-saw journey during burn-in, wondering in which direction they'd go next lol! It's almost as though they were experimenting with what would appeal to _me_ most...custom tubes, no less!!  But no such personalisation has been the case it would seem, given I'm not alone in this!... Changes in vocals positioning have also been more numerous than is usual, but are now just right...for me, at least (reflecting very accurately just where the sound engineer positioned them in the first place lol ).

All we need now is to find out just how long-lived are these beauties...haven't been able to find any such info anywhere I'm afraid, so it looks like we'll have to be the guinea pigs. But as I mentioned before, as our amps are not pushing them at all hard, one would hopefully surmise a VERY long life indeed...fingers crossed...


----------



## connieflyer

Good point h, the only problem is once we find out what the actual tube life is, they will be gone. Which B speaks another problem, they are becoming such a rare item that should we decide to find out where their life ends we may not be able to get any more! Well hopefully in my lifetime I won't wear these out. And as far as Lucasz,goes, I only wish him and the family continued success. For my money they put out an excellent product one that I find every bit of my money, is well spent. Now if they're new amplifier turns out to be even better, I don't know what I'm going to do. Will I buy it? Or will I say if they just keep producing these products that are better and better why not wait till the next one! Answer that is easy. At my age I may not be around for the product after this next one! Take care and happy


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## Johnnysound (Oct 27, 2018)

ZRW0 said:


> I'll try to do a detailed comparison of 6080 vs 5998 vs 421A vs 7236 on the Euforia, as I now own all those tubes.
> But the problem comes with the huge number of combination with the driver tubes. For a given power tube, the combo with some driver can provide either a meh or a great experience...
> In a nutshell, from my trials:
> - the following are great combos: RCA-5692/TS-5998, KENRAD-VT231/WE421A, SYLV-6SN7GTB/TS-6080WA, PSVANE-VT231/TS-7236, and the quad ST coated CV1052s looks promising.
> ...



Hi, ZR, I have tried some of the combos you mention, and in general terms  the 6SN7GT family on the driver side of the Euforia is not exactly my personal favorite.  The best sounding by far were my  black glass Sylvanias VT231 “U.S. Navy”  of WW2 vintage: nice, open, classic tube sound with deep bass...but you do not get quite the level of detail and refinement, or the extension that the Euforia is capable of with other drivers.  In my opinion, of course.

I would suggest to experiment with a pair of EL32/VT52/CV1052 as drivers, I mean any variant, even the currently   cheap “straight glass” Mullards EL32 proved to be excellent drivers...and extremely high value for the money, indeed.  You’ ll need adaptors...and patience  because of their very long  burn in.  With these accurate, quiet and neutral drivers, the sonic character of your power tubes will be revealed as never before...and the Euforia will sound awesome in the process.  Be prepared for some unexpected results.

 And yes, the number of possible combinations in the Euforia is enormous, more so with the EL family in which virtually any tube can be used interchangeably in both positions.  However, in my experience I feel that power tubes like the great EL12SP or EL12N sound  best in their proper power slot.  The EL32 are kind of hybrids that can be used both ways,  but they are specially capable drivers in terms of synergy with many types of powers.  The 6080s or 6AS7Gs will  sing, for example, each with its own sonic signature, as will the EL12s, particularly  the EL12Ns, almost sublime in this combo...


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## hypnos1

Just a quickie this time...

@ZRW0 ...you mentioned having problems with the EL12 Spezials. Unfortunately, most other folks also found the same thing with these stellar tubes, and which was cured most easily by attaching very small ferrite chokes (or just one even may work) over the wire from adapter to top cap. I myself never had such problems with adapting my own tubes, but this is a downside of others having to rely on Chinese made adapters alas! The EL32 doesn't suffer the same problems, as the top cap is for signal grid as opposed to the high voltage _anode_ in the Spezial...the latter therefore needing extra care if going anywhere near while on!!! The Spezial, as @Johnnysound  mentioned, is best used only as *power* tube IMHO...

Hope you're still enjoying your trials of different combos...but please remember that _all_ need to be lived with for quite a long while before one gets a proper feel for their sound...ears and brain also need plenty of burn-in to become accustomed to these different sounds lol! ...and as said many times before, this applies _especially _to triode-strapped pentodes, such as the EL family....HAPPY LISTENING!...


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## hypnos1

Hi guys...just another quickie.

As y'all know well by now, since days long past with my love affair with the C3g tube, I have been drawn inexorably to the use of pentodes (triode-strapped), more so than any other tubes. Perhaps it's just that they appeal to certain tastes/equipment setups - as is a universal truth anyway, concerning 'hi-fi' - but the more I research past keen DIYers' notes on their projects, the more I begin to understand my own predilection lol! 
There appears to be quite a large camp that, in the words of one such afficionado, "can't understand the hysteria for triodes"!! This may well be underestimating triodes' abilities, but I'm sure contains an element of truth. I suppose this could also explain the choice of EL34 pentodes for use in the much admired hi-end 'Blue Hawaii' amp!
Availability of a vast range of triodes must play a large part in modern amps' use...and is the very reason I suggested them to Feliks-Audio in the first place, knowing they would probably have thought EL tubes _not_ a viable proposition, unfortunately...

Ah well, I console myself that luckily - and to my great relief! - Elise and Euforia can in fact make said 'interlopers' shine wonderfully, even though not specifically configured for them...ie. the best of both worlds! ...WELL DONE F-A!!...


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## ZRW0

Hello Guys,

@Johnnysound

Thanks for the advice.
I already tried the EL32/VT52/CV1052 family just as drivers, but have never been convinced by the pairing with 6080/6AS7 family so far.
Now I may not have waited enough regarding the CV1052 burn-in


@hypnos1

Thanks for the hint regarding the ferrites with the EL12Spez, I'll give it a try.


On my side, I've been sticking a bit (actually a lot) on this combo that fully satisfies me at the moment: the 75 years old Ken-Rad VT231 (still) and the Tung-Sol 7236

 s

My whole system is transfigured with this combo, both headphones and speaker sessions, with the Euforia connected to my McIntosh amp for the speaker sessions. 
Many things are revealed, bass and low-meds are quite deep, hi-meds and trebble are fully textured, and I surprised myself to keep the volume pretty low as all the details are already there with such an ease.


Now, I'm still curious regarding the quad CV1052 Coated ST shape results, so I'm back to their burn-in this week-end.


----------



## connieflyer

Ahh yes, the Mc amp, has always been a favorite of mine. Came close to purchasing on several times. may end up with on yet.  As H1 has said the CV's continue to impress and change in a positive way.  I too am seeing similar changes in the presentation of the music. I am at about 180 hours now, and am quite impressed with them.  Good luck


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## hypnos1 (Oct 29, 2018)

Oohh @ZRW0 , I too have always loved those blue meters lol!! ...nice setup you have...

Sounds like you've been very lucky to find a combo already that obviously matches well with your McIntosh...I suspect achieving such synergy  is much more difficult than with headphones. And the greater output from your current favourite tubes may well play a part in this. I can only hope that with more time, the CV1052s will display the kind of development I - and others - have experienced...but it isn't compulsory, of course lol .

I hope also you're in this for the long haul needed for these tubes to really shine...despite, I'm sure, the tempting call of current #1!! As mentioned many times before - and not just by myself - they repay the sort of patience rarely needed with new tubes. I am still noticing certain (welcome) differences after all this time, which is totally unexpected.

And as you may have already found, (in my system anyway), when putting in EL tubes straight after the 'normal' ones, it can take quite a while before they even sound right...probably due to the 'auto bias' taking its time to settle things down. In fact this rather worried me the first time it happened! But thankfully, hasn't proved later to cause any problem whatsoever.

So good luck with this trial, and look forward to the final results in your own system...(I do hope your McIntosh takes kindly to them...lovely amp lol! ).


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## Keisuk3

Feliks-Audio always knows how to make pretty things


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## hypnos1

Keisuk3 said:


> Feliks-Audio always knows how to make pretty things



Hi Keisuk3.

F-A surely do have some very nice looking amps in their lineup...the 'Arioso' looks especially appealing, to me anyway .

And although Elise and Euforia have a definite 'understated' look, I personally find them 'pretty' in their own way lol...more like _lovely_, perhaps?! 

Speaking of which, if F-A stick with Michal Feliks's early design concept for the new 2A3 flagship headphone _and_ speaker amp, I think they will be redefining just how a top class tube amp should look...quite a departure from the 'traditional', and one that to my eyes could well make most others look decidedly 'dated' lol...so I keep my fingers crossed......CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 1, 2018)

Hi guys.

On a side note...I thought my system - with the 4x ST CV1052s now giving the bass I have never had before (even from the mighty Mullard ECC31) - just couldn't deliver anything more without spending an absolute fortune...WRONG! And I'm now going to say something that will undoubtedly have some folks heaving a very deep sigh (or chuckle!), but I don't mind that at all lol .

Having up 'til now been rather sceptical about 'superfuses', and underwhelmed by my first encounter with 'budget' AMR special fuses (one of which came adrift at one end...not very encouraging!), out of curiosity I decided to have another go, this time using more expensive 'Hi-Fi Tuning' ones - a 13amp for mains, and a 1.6A internal for Euforia.

The 13A fuse is in the main plug/cable that feeds my Mains Regenerator and thence the Balanced Mains/Advanced Filter unit. At first - and just using this one - I thought I noticed a slightly greater overall depth to the sound, but could easily have been mistaken at this stage, of course. However, now with 24 hrs' continuous 'burn-in', I have to admit my scepticism was ill-founded...to say the least. That increased depth to the sound is for real, to the point where bass extension, detail and depth are unlike anything I've heard from my system before now. Mids are also more clearly defined, and treble is even smoother still. In fact, 'smoother' is a word that defines the main change...across the entire FR. Along with an even cleaner, clearer presentation than the already uncanny one prior, and which has individual instruments delineated more precisely than ever. And my ultimate acid test - when everything else is as good as it gets - is to turn up the volume beyond 'normal' listening levels, and see what happens!... Well, with bass heavy material, it remains solid, detailed and without a hint of bloom/boominess. With treble, my ears remain perfectly happy...no mean feat when assaulted with 'Duke', by Genesis!!

Add to these an unmatched dynamics handling - one second a beautifully deft touch with very quiet passages, the next perfectly controlled crescendos, and I have to say that in my own system at least, this £25 (Edit...no, £35) spend is worth every single penny/cent... and I still cannot believe it lol.

Obviously, an upgraded fuse is NOT going to cure any ills further downstream - as a result of 'dirty'/unconditioned mains electricity; EMI/RFI gremlins; mediocre signal source/DAC; poor cables etc. etc. And I suspect that I may well be getting a certain benefit because I'm fortunate enough to now have a system that is already deathly quiet and free from any interferences whatsoever.

So for me, this infinitesimal amount, compared to the rest of the system, has proved a very worthwhile experiment indeed. But as usual, YMMV!

ps. And given the oft-stated case that upgrading the _internal _fuse should bring even greater benefit, I can't wait to see if anything else can possibly be brought to the table!


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting H, can you post a link to where you purchased?  Also, curious as to whether you added both fuses at the same time, or did you stagger them to see if one did more than the other,  curious.  Have not tried the fuses to see if a difference can be heard. When the fuse in the Euforia blew a few months ago,  found some decent fuses on line, could not find any locally.  They work fine, no change that I could detect. These were not special fuses, so I wonder.  I believe that for the most part, they do not make much difference, but once the system has been tweeted so well, even a small change can be heard.  With 200 hours on the CV1052 coated tubes, my system sounds better than it has ever sounded. The only fuses I have seen over here were in the 100+ dollar range and was not interested.  But at the price you quoted, it is an easy gamble.


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## connieflyer

A sample of the prices are here  https://www.thecableco.com/accessories/fuses.html


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## hypnos1 (Nov 1, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Interesting H, can you post a link to where you purchased?  Also, curious as to whether you added both fuses at the same time, or did you stagger them to see if one did more than the other,  curious.  Have not tried the fuses to see if a difference can be heard. When the fuse in the Euforia blew a few months ago,  found some decent fuses on line, could not find any locally.  They work fine, no change that I could detect. These were not special fuses, so I wonder.  I believe that for the most part, they do not make much difference, but once the system has been tweeted so well, even a small change can be heard.  With 200 hours on the CV1052 coated tubes, my system sounds better than it has ever sounded. The only fuses I have seen over here were in the 100+ dollar range and was not interested.  But at the price you quoted, it is an easy gamble.



Hi cf...this isn't fair - I notice these 'Hi-Fi Tuning' fuses are actually listed on ebay.com, from a guy in Canada...and far cheaper than they are over here! My large 'Gold' mains fuse was in fact £35, not £25 as I thought. And from Canada they're just $12.50!!! But it seems their 'Silver Star' series were highly regarded, and still only $24 for the large fuses, and just $16 for the small internals...peanuts, really! ...and certainly worth a try, even if they don't bring obvious improvements lol. I myself will be trying both the Silver Star small internal, plus the more expensive 'Supreme' internal...but not until I've made sure just what the large mains one is doing first.

I'm pretty sure such fuses will only really bring noticeable changes in highly resolving, extremely quiet and 'clean' sounding systems, and I'd be surprised if they didn't do anything at all in your own, obviously being such a candidate! . But these things are not set in stone, of course....

And so I look forward to seeing if the upgraded internal fuse does in fact also bring a little extra to the table...in a few days' time.

I also look forward to your own findings, if you do decide to give them a try...and hope you too might be pleasantly surprised after, like me, previous negative results.

Ah well, time for a couple more tracks before zzzzzzzzzzzz, so g'night all...

ps. If you do go for these particular fuses, note that they're directional...indicated by a tiny arrow on the fuse's ceramic body....and GOOD LUCK!...CJ

pps. Some of those prices you linked to really are a bit silly IMHO!


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## matti621

Someone owned both this and the DAC1 (amp integrated) and can compare?


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## hypnos1

matti621 said:


> Someone owned both this and the DAC1 (amp integrated) and can compare?



Sorry matti621...can't help you there I'm afraid...can anyone else?...


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## hypnos1 (Nov 2, 2018)

OK guys...time for another update...yes, on upgraded fuses I'm afraid!

Having thought I was deluding myself re. my previous statements (with healthy scepticism trying to muscle in), another 24 hrs' burn-in (via my surround receiver, not Euforia, of course lol!) of the 13A 'Hi-Fi Tuning' mains cable fuse has shown promise indeed on many of my test tracks...depending upon the quality of their recording, naturally.

After the most noticeable difference initially - ie. bass notes having greater solidity and impact than ever before - I now realise that there's slight (but still quite noticeable) improvement in ALL the areas that I have previously described my ST CV1052s as having conquered (totally!), so I shan't bore you with repeated details. What I shall say, however, is that the all-encompassing _feel_ is one of a presentation _smooooth_ as honey, but with a tight, rigid control that screams _authority_, in a way normally reserved for extremely good SS. And thus, there's the_ beauty_ of tube amplification, combined with the _strengths_ of solid state...what more can one ask for? ...

Well, er, actually...a tube to surpass the EL32/CV1052? Despite my recent rejection of the saying 'Never Say Never Again' - and much against my better judgment! - I've spied another possibly interesting tube...and yes, it's yet another of the EL family...the EL*38 *(I just can't seem to kick my love affair with these pentodes - triode strapped, of course - into touch ).

Anyway, even if they don't work OK in Euforia, I shall just mount them and stare at them all day...they're the most beautifully constructed tube I have ever laid eyes upon. And given they're almost identical to the EL37, which many regard as the 'best valve/tube ever made by Mullard', then I'm hoping this may just be another winner....for me, at least, as it has the dreaded _anode_ top cap connection. Tricky for many users, but luckily I've had no such problems with my own adapting. I just hope that Euforia can handle this tube which, luckily, doesn't appear to be quite the powerhouse of the EL37. So if you don't hear from me for a good while, you'll know I've finally managed to blow up my pride and joy....why oh WHY can't I leave well alone lol?!!!...Curiosity, and cat come to mind...

And so, folks, just a few photos of said beauties (nemeses?!)...the military equivalent 'CV450'

   

Just look at those 4 ceramic post supports; copper grid posts; lovely (and large!) oval anode plate...not to mention the twin 'O' ring getters and gold-plated control grid wire you can't see!...mmmmm....

And these things look even far more impressive in the flesh lol......CJ


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## connieflyer (Nov 2, 2018)

They look really impressive H, hope they work out for you.  But my tube chasing days are over, (okay, maybe just one more time!)  unless of course these are much better than cv1052's.  Did you manage to find two tubes or four? If two, I assume you will be using them in driver position?  One thing I did not care for is the printing is not level on the one tube.  Yea I know, but I had to find somethingggg! As always keep us in the loop, all the best.
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aam0020.htm


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## aqsw

I have been communicating with Feliks Audio. 
From what I have learned , I will not be getting the flagship.  As it is an integrated, it will make my euforia  obsolete.
Although it will be a much better pre and amp than what I have it will be too expensive for my tastes.
I do have some nice pics of it though. It is a monster.

I think I will be going the monoblock route with the Feliks Duos and Euforia pre.. Not the top of the line, but I'm  sure it will be the best I've  had in
my 65 years, and I've  had some pretty good gear.


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## connieflyer

Care to share the pictures?  You say it is a monster, so what are you comparing it too?  Pictures are worth a thousand words, so they say.  Did they say in what way it was better than Euforia, I know the 2A3 tubes are considered to be some of the best tubes out there, but in general, how did they say it was so much better?  So many questions,  I recently got an Anthem integrated amp for the main music system, and it is very good.  I love the Euforia, and I see your problem, as if I got the new amp, it would make the new Anthem excess, and I would not want that.  However, if what I have heard, second hand to be sure, it is not out of the question, if it will in all ways live up to the design parameters.  Could always sell off the Anthem, but I would keep the Euforia for use in another room perhaps. If you would not mind sharing what details you have learned, we would be very interested.  Thanks aqsw.


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## aqsw (Nov 2, 2018)

Trying to send you a message Connie. Not sure if I should share these pics. They were sent to me from Feliks but im not sure if I shoukd
Share them. What do you think H1. I do have some specs also.

By "monster", I mean it looks physically large from the two pics I received. Not sure what the actual dimensions are.

They told me it was end game "if there is such a thing",

They also are pushing me towards  the duo's instead as I really love my euforia.(I don't mind)
No price yet. (It will be deservedly high)
Not delivering til probably 2nd quarter 2019

One hint is, you will have to get very high efficient speakers.


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## connieflyer

Thanks for the information, I will wait to see what H has to say.  Good luck with the mono blocks, I will have to go to their site and check them out.


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## aqsw

Duo's, They are beauty.


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## aqsw

Sorry


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## connieflyer

Those do look really nice! Would fit in perfect with theEiuforia amp. Will give those a look. Thanks for the post.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 5, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> They look really impressive H, hope they work out for you.  But my tube chasing days are over, (okay, maybe just one more time!)  unless of course these are much better than cv1052's.  Did you manage to find two tubes or four? If two, I assume you will be using them in driver position?  One thing I did not care for is the printing is not level on the one tube.  Yea I know, but I had to find somethingggg! As always keep us in the loop, all the best.
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aam0020.htm



Yo cf...very impressive indeed...especially in the flesh lol! I can't begin to imagine the level of skill needed to put these tubes together - FAR greater than any 6SN7/6AS7G/6080 or similar, you care to name...and that includes the (in)famous, and ridiculously expensive, Tung Sol BGRP! . And, dare I say it, the famous 2A3!!! And so I'm praying harder than ever that Euforia can in fact handle this gorgeous creation......hope to start adapting it tomorrow, so will keep y'all informed...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Trying to send you a message Connie. Not sure if I should share these pics. They were sent to me from Feliks but im not sure if I shoukd
> Share them. What do you think H1. I do have some specs also.
> 
> By "monster", I mean it looks physically large from the two pics I received. Not sure what the actual dimensions are.
> ...



Hi aqsw. 

Well done for squeezing more updates from Lukasz...am still waiting for them myself lol!! ...

And I would imagine that as with Michal's early design concept Lukasz sent me a long while ago now, he wouldn't want them in the public domain just yet (unless he intimated otherwise in his communication with you).

And yes, I should think the (necessary) price will place it in another league entirely, and probably beyond most of our pockets here, alas! Especially, also, given the tremendous performance Euforia is actually capable of lol! 

PM sent...


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Those do look really nice!


Very nice indeed!


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## DecentLevi (Nov 4, 2018)

Popping my head in here - a few of your posts interested me especially H1.
I'm a big proponent of trying affordable makeshift DIY hacks / mods to milk that extra 'sonic juice' of of a system, so your fuse and top cap [non]-connector seem doable.
- For replacing the fuse, is this is an easy to find location of the Euforia or is there any circuitry in the way?
- And for the EL32 top cap, would you say that perhaps soldering the existing top wire (silver wire from Xuling's adapter) directly to the top may make any noticeable improvement vs. connected with the normal top socket?

Gotta hand it to ya H1, from your recent descriptions you must be getting sound that beyond what even many sound engineers may be getting. I wonder if you would ever want to upgrade again.

Also @connieflyer did you ever get a chance to compare an adapter from H1 vs. Xuling?

Finally @aqsw those dual 5-tube amps were a speaker amp that uses a series of dual amps, right?


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## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi ...sorry I can't make proper reply just now...am still in the clouds makeshift testing my new EL38 (CV450, to be exact!) and updating below, so will get back to you later ...BFN...CJ


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## hypnos1

OK guys, I know this probably isn't a practical venture for y'all, but thought I'd update you on my latest mad experiment.

Well, having made a makeshift adapter for testing purposes, and with fingers crossed, baited breath and hand on the power switch I waited for the worst lol. Unbelievably, Euforia has welcomed this triode-strapped pentode CV450 (EL38... in a power slot) even more warmly than the EL3N; EL11/12/Spezial, and the latest astounding ST CV1052 (EL32). 

After only 15 mins on this first NOS tube, there's (thankfully!) the deathly silent background of the EL32, and now with 30+ mins there's still not the slightest hint of any objection from the amp...still the quietest, clearest background I have ever experienced. And the sound?...already superb! So I can't wait to adapt it properly - without intermediate socket, and with UP-OCC silver as well as the copper wires - along with the second tube. I can only imagine what they will then sound like, and with the obligatory _long_ burn-in...stay tuned......

And here's a preliminary taster of a photo, for anyone interested! 

 

And on top of everything, it also has a lovely glow!! ...from a1.4A heater, as opposed to EL32's 0.2A!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hi guys. I know this isn't really fair, but just had to report on latest findings re. the EL38 (CV450) experiment.

After 10 or so hours, there's still not the slightest hint of anything untoward, so it looks like once again, Euforia has shown her wonderful flexibility in what tubes can be safely used in her. And once again also, the amp remains cool to the touch, even though taking 7 times the power for heater...amazing.

But more encouraging than that, this tube as power, with the ST CV1052 (EL32) as drivers, is obviously a match made in Heaven. Even with very few hours on the first one as yet, it takes nothing away from the EL32 driver and, in fact, complements it wonderfully. And on top of the extra depth, power etc. provided by the mains fuse upgrade (yes, it _does_ work lol!), even just one in the power slot, accompanying an EL32, is taking these qualities further still. So much so in fact that actually, just one may well provide all the bass, depth and energy one could ever want! It lives alongside an EL32 in the power seat as seemlessly as one could ever hope for....

Plus, all this came from the tube sitting in a less-than-ideal makeshift adapter, so now that I've adapted this first one properly, I'm anticipating very special things once a good few hours are on it...not to mention when I get the second tube finished lol 

Given this tube - as with the ST CV1052 - is already outperforming every other I've tried to date, it would appear that both of these tubes have remained hidden 'underground' for a very long while, and fully appreciated by only those in the know...there's hardly any info to be found anywhere on these beauties. If I'd found these a long while ago, I'd have asked Lukas to forget the 2A3 and look for a stash of them, despite some folks' uncertainty about tubes that have the top cap as high-voltage anode!). It 's going to be very interesting indeed to see just how the two compare in the near (?!) future lol......

ps. Unfortunately, these EL tubes aren't being made anymore, so I suppose F-A would have declined the suggestion anyway alas......BFN...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well h, it looks like you're having very good results from this new tube. It will be interesting to see what it will do long-term compared to the e l 32. I suppose if I'm going to get in on these I better start looking around for some before they all disappear! I know, I know I said I wasn't going to do this anymore, but then I also said I wasn't going to live this long either! So I can't even trust myself to do what I say. Keep up the good work h


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## Oskari (Nov 8, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys. I know this isn't really fair, but just had to report on latest findings re. the EL38 (CV450) experiment.


Don't worry, CJ. Life generally isn't fair. 

Meanwhile, if y'all want to see a live stream of a sweet kitty:


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## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Don't worry, CJ. *Life generally isn't fair.*
> 
> Meanwhile, if y'all want to see a live stream of a sweet kitty:




Ah, don't I just know it lol! But thanks anyway for your encouraging words, O...(And can't really complain just at the moment...the way this EL38 is developing is banishing all grey clouds in sight...in a single (for *me?!!*) word...*unbelievable*. But more words later, I suspect...I'm afraid! 

That wouldn't be _your_ sweet kitty by any chance would it, mon ami? And there was I envisaging you as a tough, hard-nosed, _hard_ North European...not little softies like us here in the UK...(er, correction...here in _England_...the Celtic nations are far tougher than we are lol!! ).
However, _nice kitty_, I must admit lol...


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 6, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Popping my head in here - a few of your posts interested me especially H1.
> I'm a big proponent of trying affordable makeshift DIY hacks / mods to milk that extra 'sonic juice' of of a system, so your fuse and top cap [non]-connector seem doable.
> - For replacing the fuse, is this is an easy to find location of the Euforia or is there any circuitry in the way?
> - And for the EL32 top cap, would you say that perhaps soldering the existing top wire (silver wire from Xuling's adapter) directly to the top may make any noticeable improvement vs. connected with the normal top socket?
> ...



Hi DL...a reply at last lol!

Re. upgraded fuses...this is a(nother) rather controversial subject, but I must admit that I myself have had my scepticism well and truly dented. The 'Hi-Fi Tuning' replacement in the mains cable feeding my conditioner/filters definitely brought a greater bass depth and overall increased 'energy' to my system. But I suspect the degree is highly dependent upon the level of resolution and clarity in the rest of the system..._especially_ that provided by such as my Mains Regenerator and AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains & Filter units. I can't stress strongly enough the massive difference this conditioning alone made to the final sound. In comparison for example, temporarily going back to a standard multi-socket extension block was absolutely horrifying, and confirmed the expense was worth every single penny/cent! After all, in a hi-fi amp, all the experts stress the absolute importance of a _good_ (expensive) output transformer, and/or power supply...but what good is that if fed by rubbish-laden mains electricity in the first place lol?!! A no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned...

And re. the EL32 top cap... again, I suspect the degree of noticeable improvement will depend greatly upon the quality of the rest of the system. But IMHO, removing _any_ connector will probably bring benefit of some kind. _However_, without gaining direct access to the tube's wire - a practice fraught with possible problems! - I think it would only be worth doing if you firmly clamped the adapter's wire to the top cap before soldering, so as to ensure metal-to-metal contact, and avoid the introduction of solder between the two. Before I started removing the top cap itself (very risky), I would tie the connecting wire to the top cap with strands of copper wire, and then secure with epoxy resin poured into a small piece of rubber tubing covering the cap. I didn't really fancy the idea of extreme heat being transferred to the tube's glass!
However of course, you've then got to be prepared to undo all this (or cut the wire) if you need to change the tube!! So things to think about...especially for perhaps very minimal gain lol!

And as for needing to upgrade the amp...the way this EL38 is developing - as power, driven by the ST CV1052s (EL32), all I can say is that I doubt the new flagship amp - or any other! - could ever surpass what I'm now hearing (and no exaggeration!) by a great enough margin to warrant the extremely high price that would necessarily be incurred...but who knows?...time will tell...

Edit...ps. Euforia's internal fuse is easily replaced - it's located in a holder next to the switch...simply prise it open to gain access.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> That wouldn't be _your_ sweet kitty by any chance would it, mon ami? And there was I envisaging you as a tough, hard-nosed, _hard_ North European...not little softies like us here in the UK...(er, correction...here in _England_...the Celtic nations are far tougher than we are lol!! ).
> However, _nice kitty_, I must admit lol...


I am a big softie. 

The kitten is somewhere in New Jersey. She recently had $7k worth of brain surgery. She has one dedicated foster mama.


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> I am a big softie.
> 
> The kitten is somewhere in New Jersey. She recently had $7k worth of brain surgery. She has one dedicated foster mama.



Nice to hear your heart is obviously in the right place, O...but then, I always knew that, mon ami... 

BUT...would you have spent $7k on a kitty, no matter how sweet? If so, you're even softer than our own (mad?!) pet lovers lol!!! ....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well h, it looks like you're having very good results from this new tube.* It will be interesting to see what it will do long-term compared to* *the e l 32.* I suppose if I'm going to get in on these I better start looking around for some before they all disappear! I know, I know I said I wasn't going to do this anymore, but then I also said I wasn't going to live this long either! So I can't even trust myself to do what I say. Keep up the good work h



Well, cf, I do hate (really!) to rub it in, but even after just several on/off sessions, I can safely say this tube develops much more quickly than the EL32 (thank goodness! ). Mind you, at the moment it still has an EL32 to bolster it in the power role. However, I've never known a _different_ tube to marry so well with another..._perfectly_, in fact. This marriage is even now delivering a performance way beyond my wildest dreams, and does indeed confirm once more just what Euforia is capable of...notwithstanding the fact that I've obviously been extremely lucky in its partnering equipment! Fortunately, the lower frequencies are now blending in better, with treble coming through very nicely...which is rather different to the EL32's need for a _very_ long time before bass really develops (and which would seem to confirm @Johnnysound 's suspicion that this is due to the latter's very low heat requirement - and lower anode output, no doubt...).

So now, I just need to be sure that _two_ EL38s can maintain this wonderful FR balance...but if not - as I mentioned before - no problem whatsoever...would even mean one more spare tube lol!...WIN - WIN...for once in my life!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Nov 7, 2018)

Hey H1 - the #1 Hypnotist of fidelity (or something HAha).
Great, when able I'll go for your fuse and non-connection hack on the Euforia - I'm feelin' that one alone may not make so much difference but probably when combined they may be more noticeable. Do you mind to recommend a good fuse type / brand (something maybe around the $25 range)? Otherwise feel free to send by PM... though I'm in no hurry because I'm actually still overseas, in S. Korea for now, working online and traveling as a sort of "digital nomad".

Wow "horrifying" is a strong word to describe your Euforia direct to mains power vs. with your (AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains & Filter units). But I suspect with how extensively upgraded your amp is, it must still sound quite fantastic directly to mains power as well, perhaps your ears needed time to re-adjust. Nevertheless Most of your custom wiring, power, etc. mods are out of reach for most people so your specific system is clearly in its' own league. I may be able to get somewhat close to yours however with the above mods, as well as the 6 tube multi power adapter made in HK, which I had actually confirmed by another amp designer that it's made of good materials. And on that topic I should repeat that YMMV by a lot depending on the transformer used for it.

PS - I'm enjoyin' reading on your EL38 venture


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## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi ...hope you saw my late edit to my last post, re. the position of Euforia's internal fuse holder.

Plus, if you do decide to tinker with the EL32's top cap, be very careful that it doesn't come loose from the tube...any 'back and forth' movement may well snap the metal wire where it leaves the tube, and leave you in BIG trouble lol! And which is why I advised folks a while ago to 'superglue' all around the top cap's join with the glass, so as to avoid such a potential catastrophe. This problem - plus that of the _adapter's _top cap connector working loose - is probably why this top cap connection lost a certain popularity, even though it would appear to provide better results than being contained within the tube itself. But IMHO, neither really needs to remain a 'problem'...all that's needed is a bit of glue for the tube's top cap, and a little prising back into position of the adapter's internal cap connectors to reinstate a tight fit...easy lol!


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## hypnos1 (Nov 7, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey H1 - the #1 Hypnotist of fidelity (or something HAha).
> Great, when able I'll go for your fuse and non-connection hack on the Euforia - I'm feelin' that one alone may not make so much difference but probably when combined they may be more noticeable. Do you mind to recommend a good fuse type / brand (something maybe around the $25 range)? Otherwise feel free to send by PM... though I'm in no hurry because I'm actually still overseas, in S. Korea for now, working online and traveling as a sort of "digital nomad".
> 
> Wow "horrifying" is a strong word to describe your Euforia direct to mains power vs. with your (AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains & Filter units). But I suspect with how extensively upgraded your amp is, it must still sound quite fantastic directly to mains power as well, perhaps your ears needed time to re-adjust. Nevertheless Most of your custom wiring, power, etc. mods are out of reach for most people so your specific system is clearly in its' own league. I may be able to get somewhat close to yours however with the above mods, as well as the 6 tube multi power adapter made in HK, which I had actually confirmed by another amp designer that it's made of good materials. And on that topic I should repeat that YMMV by a lot depending on the transformer used for it.
> ...



Hi again DL...we obviously crossed in the airwaves lol!

And yes, 'horrifying' was indeed the correct word to use...and no re-adjustment time would have made the slightest difference, I'm afraid. The entire sound was so poor in comparison, I could only stand a matter of seconds before having to shut everything down...it was that obvious. I simply could not believe the degree of difference...a prime example of how sometimes we don't realise the full overall effect of incremental improvements, not to mention the benefits of quick A/B comparisons in detecting differences.

Re. the fuses, I myself am so far very pleased with the brand 'Hi-Fi Tuning' (only the mains one, so far), and they are in fact being offered on ebay.com by a Canadian seller at ridiculously cheap prices, compared to what I paid here in the UK....grrrrrr!! And my supplier here (of very hi-end gear) reassured me they are indeed very good, and has sold hundreds of them. And they are no worse than even much more expensive makes re. this type of fuse possibly blowing sooner than conventional ones, due to equipment power surges. (And he's never had any problems re. the fuse blowing too _late_, thereby causing possible disaster! ). So, at the Canadian's prices, one can always get multiples lol ...

ps. Their 'Silver Star' range of fuses are supposed to be really good...


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> BUT...would you have spent $7k on a kitty, no matter how sweet? If so, you're even softer than our own (mad?!) pet lovers lol!!! ....CHEERS!...CJ


I would not… Crowdfunded (as it was)… maybe.


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## hypnos1

OK...I'll try this again...(this editor is bloomin' hopeless - I go to post my message, then need to sign in and...post GONE!!...so- called "Security error"...huh!! This isn't the first time it's happened either...).

Anyway, as I was saying.....for @DecentLevi @connieflyer and anyone else interested in the 'Hi-Fi Tuning' fuses I previously mentioned, available on ebay.com from a Canadian seller (partsconnexion), it appears the small, 1.6A internal one for the amp is only available as _fast_ blow, whereas our amps currently have a _slow_ blow (1.6*T*). Whether this is really needed, perhaps Lukasz could confirm. The Silver Star 'large' fuse is also available in a good range, depending upon what your mains equipment requires. If appropriate, these Silver Stars are extremely good value, and a real bargain IMHO ...(here goes...fingers crossed, this time!!...).


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## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> I would not… Crowdfunded (as it was)… maybe.



Sensible..._and_ with a heart...I'm very impressed, O...


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## connieflyer

Hate to say, it but, sometimes that is all the family you have. I would spend that if in that position.  Money, I can get,(not easily anymore) a "family" member not so easy.


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## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Hate to say, it but, sometimes that is all the family you have. I would spend that if in that position.  Money, I can get,(not easily anymore) a "family" member not so easy.


I do see your point.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 8, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Hate to say, it but, sometimes that is all the family you have. I would spend that if in that position.  Money, I can get,(not easily anymore) a "family" member not so easy.



That is desperately sad cf, but sometimes must indeed be true alas....Mind you, I've always understood that very strong tie to 'Man's Best Friend', but not quite with the feline family lol! ...still, a pet is a pet...and _more!..._(but I'm afraid my prize Koi  just get a decent burial, even though they all have names!!  ).

On a more cheery (short, in deference to our friend @Oskari !) note, I'm glad to say EL38 (CV450, to be precise) #2 is now in situ, and...well, I could go on and on, but shan't! Suffice to say my slight concern that _two_ in the power slots might just prove a tad too overpowering for my taste was, happily, unfounded. Can't quite understand why this should be, given the bass boost from just one. Perhaps this is an example of 2x 'exact' same tubes always seeming to perform that bit better than 2x dissimilar ones, even though the marriage can sometimes work extremely well...as when the first EL38 was partnering an EL32.
Whatever, even with hardly any hours on these NOS tubes, I cannot believe my luck in discovering this 'undercover' marvel. They show the EL32 to be a truly superb driver, and this combo to take Euforia to previously unheard of heights IMHO.

Er, sorry Oskari, getting carried away again...so I'll finish for now and just show how things are looking at least!     :   BFN...


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## connieflyer (Nov 8, 2018)

Sad but true, never had a cat, but know plenty of folks who do, for me, it was always dogs.  We could not have children (probably a good thing for the world!) but always had dogs.  The last one, Connor was with us for 12 years, the last two, just him and me. So that was family to me.  But each to his own. Now that is one beautiful setup! Everything in balance and well proportioned!  And all in my favorite color,  tubes!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Sad but true, never had a cat, but know plenty of folks who do, for me, it was always dogs.  We could not have children (probably a good thing for the world!) but always had dogs.  The last one, Connor was with us for 12 years, the last two, just him and me. So that was family to me.  But each to his own. Now that is one beautiful setup! Everything in balance and well proportioned!  And all in my favorite color,  tubes!



Hi cf. It was indeed doubly sad that you should also lose your best friend, Connor...very remiss of you, mon ami!! ...(A hamster next time perhaps lol?! ).

"Everything in balance and well proportioned"...a perfect description of what I'm now hearing! . And to be so after just a couple of days is especially gratifying, if somewhat surprising! Methinks whoever said the "EL37 must be the best tube Mullard ever made" should have included this EL38...particularly as they look almost identical. But perhaps the anode top cap put him off trying it lol!! However, just as this feature - for me - had the EL12 Spezial outperforming the standard EL12, so I like to think the same could well hold true for the 38...mistaken or not lol!!
And by implication therefore, possibly take it above the mighty EL34 even...nice thought... (At least the EL38 certainly _looks_ far nicer...and much more impressive in construction!).

So this could well bring a _real _end to my tube searching (?)...at least I (and probably others) certainly hope so!! 

ps. Even with 2x 38s now in the power seat, Euforia gets hardly even slightly warm after 10 hrs continuous playing...so a long-lived amp, as well as tubes, should be another very welcome bonus...


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## Johnnysound (Nov 10, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys...time for another update...yes, on upgraded fuses I'm afraid!
> 
> Having thought I was deluding myself re. my previous statements (with healthy scepticism trying to muscle in), another 24 hrs' burn-in (via my surround receiver, not Euforia, of course lol!) of the 13A 'Hi-Fi _Tuning_' mains cable fuse has shown promise indeed on many of my test tracks...depending upon the quality of their recording, naturally.
> 
> ...



Beautiful tubes, H1 ¡

And guess what ? I read that it is a power pentode with similar overall characteristics as the EL34, same output power,  but it is a different tube, being  closer  to the “family member” KT77 specs.  EL38/EL34 adaptors are readily  available   (nice ones with silver plated wiring).   And there is more:  the Mullard EL38 is  THE favorite power tube for many DIY tube amp builders, that  _definitely_ prefer the sound of the EL38 (tighter bass,  transparent highs, dynamics) over the EL34s, among them no less than the  LEGENDARY  Mullard EL34 "double O getter" that costs a fortune...and you can get a _quartet_ of EL 38s (with adaptors)      for much less than the price of a _single_ NOS Mullard  EL34 ¡¡

Hummmmm... my power amp uses EL34s/KT77s.   No need to strap them into triodes.   I couldn´t resist, a quartet is coming...between pre and power amps, soon there will be a small army of Mullard tubes there...


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## connieflyer

Ok H what have you started? How many folks are going to run out and buy bl37 with adapters now? More than one I would think. Thanks again for your work on trying to find the best sound we can get from our tube amplifiers, I can't tell you how much I have appreciated the journey. Hopefully, I did say hopefully these will be the last ones that I have to chase! Yeah right!


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## DecentLevi

@Johnnysound or anyone would you mind to clarify where the EL38 adapters are? After searching on Google & eBay I only found an EL38 to EL34 adapter (Tubemalls seller), which appears to have a 6SN7 slot but not worded that way... not sure to jump in on the EL38 craze yet just throwin the idea around. 

Another thing for our ringleader H1: The EL38 does appear (a bit) similar to the EL12 Spez, and I wonder if by chance you could do a head-to-head?

Oh and I've finally solved the mystery... EL3N bested by EL12 by EL34 by EL38... I think it's obvious all we need is an EL tube with a higher number! EL7100 here I come


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## Johnnysound (Nov 10, 2018)

Hahaha !  Surely...just wait until H1 cames with an EL1000 or something like that...

The adapters are for my power amp...not for Euforia. As far as I now there are no available adaptors for the EL38 to fit in the Euforia...save for the custom ones being made by H1.


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## ZRW0

Hello,

On my side, after 120h+ burn-in with the quad ST Coated CV1052, the more it goes the more I'm skeptical by the quad combination on the Euforia.
For my usage (headphones AND pre-amp) and for my taste, the CV1052/EL32 are deceiving... as power tubes. 

BUT as drivers, ho boy ! 
They are among the best tubes (if not the best tubes !) I tried on the Euforia (and I've tried many). 
After this "endless" burn-in, and once combined with great power tubes (they clearly deserve to be paired with models with good aeration and quite vigorous), the result is just... sublime.

 
I know this combo was already recommended by some of you. And clearly thank you for this recommendation. Despite the long burn-in effort the result has been worth it, definitely.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Johnnysound ...I'm liking what you said about DIYers loving the EL38. And these guys usually know what they're talking about, to be sure lol!! . And from the way these are sounding already - driven by the wonderful EL32s - I can see why!! Classical/folk/light rock/New Age/choral/acoustic guitar...you name it, this combo (in Euforia) conjures up magic from all of them. And a brief listen to Andreas Vollenweider's 'Caverna Magica' just now truly was 'magical'...mind blowing, even . It will be very interesting to hear how they sound compared to your EL34s...but I wonder if they work at different settings? And just wait 'til you see them in the flesh...I still marvel at their construction - way ahead of the EL34 IMHO (or pretty well anything else, I suspect!).

Once again, as with the EL32s, these tubes are deathly silent, even with the vol knob turned right up to max (with no music playing!). And as you mentioned, 'transparency' really does mean that...there is a clarity that can't fail to impress the second you hear it, and surpasses even the EL12 Spezial IMHO (@DecentLevi ...will do a more comprehensive comparo when these tubes are fully burned in, and looks like it won't have to be too long with these beauties). This total lack of obvious distortion could well be down to Euforia running these tubes way below maximum, which appears to be essential in avoiding such gremlins from pentodes. And so although not specifically configured for, I reckon F-A have accidentally provided very fertile ground indeed for these tubes to _flourish_, not just_ play _lol .

And as J said, there aren't any adapters available for Euforia alas, DL. Another good reason for me NOT to go looking for any more ELxxxx tubes...unless there's any more masochists like me out there!! Patience, concentration and a very steady hand are needed for this adapting lark...all of which, sadly, have been hit by my brush with Chicken Pox last Xmas. So I can safely say it's _very_ unlikely indeed that my curiosity will once more get the better of me...but boy, am I glad I persevered with this latest tube lol! ...CHEERS!...and HAPPY LISTENING, whatever tubes are your poison! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @ZRW0 

Congrats on sticking with the burn-in, and finding these EL32 family tubes suiting you as drivers. A shame they don't do it as powers for you, but every system is different of course, as is what we all prefer soundwise. Thankfully, you've already found the power tubes to your liking...and without having to spend years searching lol!!.

The EL32 is indeed a superlative driver...and for a fraction of the cost of 'top flight' tubes. And I must admit, they are certainly 'manna from Heaven' for the EL38!

So I wish you continued joy from your own Euforia setup...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ

ps. My own ST CV1052s continued to develop even after 150hrs, but that's asking quite a lot, and still may not provide all that one is looking for lol!


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## Johnnysound (Nov 11, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Johnnysound ...I'm liking what you said about DIYers loving the EL38. And these guys usually know what they're talking about, to be sure lol!! . And from the way these are sounding already - driven by the wonderful EL32s - I can see why!! Classical/folk/light rock/New Age/choral/acoustic guitar...you name it, this combo (in Euforia) conjures up magic from all of them. And a brief listen to Andreas Vollenweider's 'Caverna Magica' just now truly was 'magical'...mind blowing, even . It will be very interesting to hear how they sound compared to your EL34s...but I wonder if they work at different settings? And just wait 'til you see them in the flesh...I still marvel at their construction - way ahead of the EL34 IMHO (or pretty well anything else, I suspect!).
> 
> Once again, as with the EL32s, these tubes are deathly silent, even with the vol knob turned right up to max (with no music playing!). And as you mentioned, 'transparency' really does mean that...there is a clarity that can't fail to impress the second you hear it, and surpasses even the EL12 Spezial IMHO (@DecentLevi ...will do a more comprehensive comparo when these tubes are fully burned in, and looks like it won't have to be too long with these beauties). This total lack of obvious distortion could well be down to Euforia running these tubes way below maximum, which appears to be essential in avoiding such gremlins from pentodes. And so although not specifically configured for, I reckon F-A have accidentally provided very fertile ground indeed for these tubes to _flourish_, not just_ play _lol .
> 
> And as J said, there aren't any adapters available for Euforia alas, DL. Another good reason for me NOT to go looking for any more ELxxxx tubes...unless there's any more masochists like me out there!! Patience, concentration and a very steady hand are needed for this adapting lark...all of which, sadly, have been hit by my brush with Chicken Pox last Xmas. So I can safely say it's _very_ unlikely indeed that my curiosity will once more get the better of me...but boy, am I glad I persevered with this latest tube lol! ...CHEERS!...and HAPPY LISTENING, whatever tubes are your poison! ...CJ



Hi H1,

Yes, I was a little worried  since  there is no info about the  proper bias point for the EL38s, only that it is lower than  the EL34....so let’s see if the “Easybias” in my amp is able to nail it...I think it will.  However, any info about bias will be warmly welcomed !!

By the DIY people comments, I think that the EL38 will probably be much  closer in sonic terms to the KT77 than to the EL34...and this is  why they look even more  promising.  My KT77s (Genalex Gold Lion reissues) are terrific power tubes, maybe not as lush or sweet as the EL34s,  but more extended on both ends, and they have such a lovely  open, wide, airy presentation that is second to none.  And I am talking about the Russian reissues...I can only imagine what the originals can do, because they are so  rare and crazily  expensive...well, there are some clues that point to  the EL38 as Mullard ”take” on their competitors  KT77 characteristics, for some very demanding applications...who knows, but it is no doubt a very interesting tube.

And the EL38s just fit in and works in the power slot of the Euforia (with adaptors, of course) thanks to its “autobias” that must be something special.  There is no other way that the amp can not only accept, but sound great with so many different tubes.... have read that it works only for the power tubes (??)

By your experience with the EL38s,  it is  clear that the EL32/CV1052 are no less than reference  level drivers in the Euforia,  very transparent plus a “natural sinergy” with many power types...


----------



## DecentLevi

Incoming EL38's! I wasn't in dire need, but thought I'd take my chance on these at only $86 for the lot! Does it seem like I did good? I think the seller only checked to make sure the heaters light up.






 

Still overseas, but should be able to figure out some adapters eventually.


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## connieflyer

Reading here about using different power tubes with the cv 1052's as drivers so decided to try a different driver and I must say I am impressed with this setup, will have to try it with other powers.

  This is with the Gold Aero 5998A tube.


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## connieflyer

Nice find on the El38's DL, looks like you will be set for awhile


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## skizuki (Nov 12, 2018)

I have received my Euforia finally! I bought Mullard 6080 to replace the power tubes while keep the stock PSvane gold tubes
Gosh it sounds much more "filled" and smoother than my Hugo2!

If I want to improve its soundstage and bass, any recommendation on the driver tubes to match with Mullard 6080?  The tube shop boss recommended me Sylvania 6SN7GT...


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## ZRW0 (Nov 12, 2018)

skizuki said:


> I have received my Euforia finally! I bought Mullard 6080 to replace the power tubes while keep the stock PSvane gold tubes
> Gosh it sounds much more "filled" and smoother than my Hugo2!
> 
> If I want to improve its soundstage and bass, any recommendation on the driver tubes to match with Mullard 6080?  The tube shop boss recommended me Sylvania 6SN7GT...



Hi Skizuki,

From my experience, Sylvania 6SN7GTBs match relatively well with Euforia and 6080s.
Now, if you're especially looking for deep, tight, refined and accurate basses, with many details in mids and trebble without having to wait for weeks of burn-in, I'd strongly recommend Ken-Rad VT231 as drivers (or their cheaper ancestor the Ken-Rad VT99 - VT99 require adapters towards 6SN7 slots).

Although it may not be the best choice to begin with, I would recommend you eventually get hands on the quite cheap CV1052/EL32 tubes too (with here as well the need for corresponding 6SN7 adapters).
These are among the best driver tubes for the Euforia, the ones that will provide you with the more details and the wider soundstage. But they come with the price of a pretty deceiving sound at the beginning and frankly require more than 100h burn-in before providing a "correct" sound. Once this 100h threshold passed, they almost improve at every new usage.

Some people here are also enjoying the solution of quad CV1052 tubes, drivers and powers. I've tried it, but don't recommend CV1052 as power on my side: too weak for demanding headphones and pre-amp usage.

Anyway, whatever your choices, don't forget to be patient, and to let your Euforia and tubes some good time to burn-in (50h minimum).

Have good fun !

Erwan.


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## connieflyer

Good morning and welcome Skizuki, I would agree with ZR wo about the Sylvania tubes. I have them and they do work well with the 60 80s. His recommendation for the VT 99 which I also have was also my thinking. However you do have to buy the extra adapters to make them work. The Ken rad bt230 ones are a very fine tube I have used these for a while and also like them for the bass that is what they've always been known for. They are a little more expensive and naviti 99 but comparing the two I would go myself for the Ken rad BT 231 between those two. The RCA 6sn7 GT is also a good choice. If you decide to go the route with either one of the above tubes and you are having trouble finding them let me know because I have settled on the CV 1052 s for drivers and we'll be glad to sell you the kenrads if that's what you would like. But good luck in any case and enjoy the amplifier Let It Burn itself in get used to it and just be careful choosing tubes, it can get addictive!


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## ZRW0

connieflyer said:


> ...will be glad to sell you the kenrads if that's what you would like.



While we're at proposing to exchange/sell our extra stuff, I still have an extra set of 4 NOS ST Coated CV1052 (the ones most of people on this forum are in love with).
Don't tell me no one is interested... It would be my pleasure to send those to someone here for a cheap price.
 
The other 4 same tubes installed in my Euforia:
 
(I can provide the adapters as well if needed. Just PM me)


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 12, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Incoming EL38's! I wasn't in dire need, but thought I'd take my chance on these at only $86 for the lot! Does it seem like I did good? I think the seller only checked to make sure the heaters light up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi DL.

I think your tubes come from the same UK ebayer I got 4 from on his prior listing (he sold 4 more before that lol!). Luckily, mine had obviously never been used - looked like they'd just come straight from the factory! . Unfortunately yours do look used tubes in the main, so I do hope they've still got plenty of life left in them . But they should hopefully still be a very good buy, considering some of the prices out there for these EL38s!....Remember to give them a good clean, especially the pins.

The problem now, of course, is going to be getting adapters for them! As @Johnnysound mentioned, ebayer 'tubemalls' already has one for EL38 to EL34...and with silver plated wire...(don't know if they are in fact made by Mrs Xuling!!). And so if you're thinking of asking him/them/her if they'd consider making an EL38 to 6SN7/6AS7G adapter, I'd be happy to confirm the necessary pin layout.

You have in fact jumped in much quicker than I thought lol...and before @connieflyer can once again confirm my own findings (or otherwise!) - his system apparently very similar to mine, soundwise. I wish I could make adapters for folks, but I'm afraid it's a much harder task for me now, let alone running out of materials!! And so it would be great if the Chinese connection could make decent ones...not just for yourself but anyone else interested in this tremendous tube (assuming they can still occasionally be found at a decent price!).

I wish you very good luck...


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 12, 2018)

Hi @Johnnysound .

Just to whet your appetite even further re. the EL38s winging their way to you... on the subject of construction, I've been looking at an EH (Russian, of course) EL34, and there's simply no comparison re. internal construction...let alone ST shape vs plain straight lol!!  (but don't know if the Mullard EL34 is very different to the EH?). Whatever, I'm a firm believer in the older tubes outclassing subsequent ones...the EL38 being a predecessor to the 34. So I look forward to your own impressions...soon, I hope!! 

As for their sound, the DIYers' impressions re. 'tighter bass' are also spot on. At first my own CV450s were _over_-heavy for my personal taste, and in my particular system... but with more hours on them, they have indeed become 'tighter' in the bass regions - exceeding the refined level of the EL32s as powers in that area (myself always preferring this _quality_, even at the expense of a certain amount of _quantity_). But I must admit that the extra bass energy of the EL38, complete with tremendous detail (and still refinement), is becoming very appealing...even though not actually _necessary_ with my gear now. And along with all the other areas that are simply superb, these tubes surpass (once again!) everything I have known previously - top flight conventional tubes, _or _'unorthodox'! And I suspect this extra 'energy' will benefit especially your Senn HD800s @connieflyer , given how some appear to find this area somewhat 'light' in these cans (but again, system-dependent, I'm sure! ).

Well, J, I suppose you too would be very interested in seeing just how they perform in headphone duties, as well as power amp...so hopefully Far East adapters will be forthcoming in the not too distant future lol ...CHEERS! and BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

That sounds fantastic news CJ,  the Senn 800 are not bass light, but they do not rock your world.  If the bass is there it reproduces it, just not in great quantities.  I have the Dekoni pads on now and they do increase the bass presence as well as warming up the mid's the treble seems to be a little light compared to the stock pads. The sound stage is also a little diminished, not the same wide open sound as the stock pads. Still a great sound, but want to try for the rest of the week before purchasing new stock pads.  The old pads are still in good shape,  but time does alter the construction of anything that is constantly compressed and released.  Very nice offer to supply Dl with the proper pin outs for the adapters, Mrs. Xuling should be glad to make them, always looking for new products I believe. I have not had a problem with the ones that I bought from her in the past, so much easier for those wanting to try the El38's.  Perhaps more folks would want to go down that road if adapters were available as well.  Thanks again for your continuing search for perfection in the reproduction of music with the Euforia. Take care, all the best DH


----------



## Eylrik

Would those cv1052 tubes work on the Elise?


----------



## OctavianH

Eylrik said:


> Would those cv1052 tubes work on the Elise?



Yes, with adapters like these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold...-converter-adapter-For-Elise-amp/202313624920
Or these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold...-converter-adapter-For-Elise-amp/202317132756


----------



## hypnos1

Eylrik said:


> Would those cv1052 tubes work on the Elise?



Hi Eylrik.

As OH has already mentioned, these tubes will indeed work in Elise also, being the same 6SN7/6AS7G configuration. And ZRW0 (above) has the best type on offer to F-A members here - ie. the ST CV1052s with internal coating - complete with adapters. And at the price he's probably asking, I doubt you'll find a better driver anywhere near the price lol! ...GOOD LUCK...CJ


----------



## Eylrik

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Eylrik.
> 
> As OH has already mentioned, these tubes will indeed work in Elise also, being the same 6SN7/6AS7G configuration. And ZRW0 (above) has the best type on offer to F-A members here - ie. the ST CV1052s with internal coating - complete with adapters. And at the price he's probably asking, I doubt you'll find a better driver anywhere near the price lol! ...GOOD LUCK...CJ


Thanks, I've already contacted him 
Although I am wondering if this tube change will be different enough (in a good way) from my 5998 + psvanes!


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 13, 2018)

Now then guys, a question for you :  what could possibly be better than 2x CV1052s (EL32) driving 2x CV450s (EL38)?.....

Answer... very possibly :




.

ie....................*FOUR EL38s!!
*
Too early to ensure none of the EL32 qualities as drivers are compromised, but at first listen (before I say goodbye to 2 of them!), bass and treble extension are quite formidable. As yet, mids are not quite so prominent as the EL32, but if they can come through just a bit more with time (when I can get around to adapting my own second pair!), then I could well become enamoured with this combo big time. Just need to readjust my hearing to deeper bass and more treble in bright recordings lol ...(the quest is obviously not quite over yet, it would appear!! )....


----------



## hypnos1

Eylrik said:


> Thanks, I've already contacted him
> Although I am wondering if this tube change will be different enough (in a good way) from my 5998 + psvanes!



Hi E....I'm fairly confident that the ST CV1052s will at least bring more to the table as drivers. As powers, it would appear much more depends on one's system and sound preferences. But as always in this hobby of ours, the only way to know for sure is to 'suck it and see' lol! One can only ever really give meaningful impressions as to how something sounds *in one's own system, and to one's own ears!* ...


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 13, 2018)

Hi @DecentLevi .

I'm thinking it's about time I made myself known to Mrs XuLing, so I'll get in touch with her to see if she will in fact make an EL38 to 6SN7/6AS7G adapter for folks. Will keep y'all updated...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. With these EL38s, I doubt you'll ever need to mess with multi-socket adapters ever again lol!  ...

pps. I notice she's already sold a total of 59 EL32 adapters (wow!), so hopefully she'll be agreeable...


----------



## connieflyer

Eylrik said:


> Thanks, I've already contacted him
> Although I am wondering if this tube change will be different enough (in a good way) from my 5998 + psvanes!


I am using the CV1052's as drivers and TS 5998 tubes for power and I prefer this combo to the PSVanes and 5998's. I am going through  many different power tube combo's with the CV's as drivers.  So far the CV's as drivers are my favorite.


----------



## OctavianH

Eylrik said:


> Thanks, I've already contacted him
> Although I am wondering if this tube change will be different enough (in a good way) from my 5998 + psvanes!



I look forward to your findings for the following 2 reasons:
1) I am also stucked on Psvanes + 5998 for almost 6 months and could not find something better
2) I use also Elise instead of Euforia which is used by all who praise the CV1052.

My assumption is that Elise, while being warmer than Euforia, is a better match for Psvane + 5998 and the EL tubes really shine on a more neutral amp. But I will see if you will reach the same conclusion as me. Please share your impressions.


----------



## ZRW0

OctavianH said:


> I look forward to your findings for the following 2 reasons:
> 1) I am also stucked on Psvanes + 5998 for almost 6 months and could not find something better
> 2) I use also Elise instead of Euforia which is used by all who praise the CV1052.
> 
> My assumption is that Elise, while being warmer than Euforia, is a better match for Psvane + 5998 and the EL tubes really shine on a more neutral amp. But I will see if you will reach the same conclusion as me. Please share your impressions.



As already mentioned here and discussed with Eylrik by PM, maybe you should have a look to Ken-Rad to replace your PSVanes. 
Either the VT231 or its ancestor the VT99 + adaptors are definitely above PSVane for what concerns me (more details, tight and deep basses, ...).
And to my ears nothing competes with CV1052 in term of details and aeration/wideness of the soundstage.


----------



## OctavianH

ZRW0 said:


> As already mentioned here and discussed with Eylrik by PM, maybe you should have a look to Ken-Rad to replace your PSVanes.
> Either the VT231 or its ancestor the VT99 + adaptors are definitely above PSVane for what concerns me (more details, tight and deep basses, ...).
> And to my ears nothing competes with CV1052 in term of details and aeration/wideness of the soundstage.



Thanks for advice. I will definitely look into them. These are the ones you are speaking?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Perfect-...bes-1947-Mint-Condition-5692-NEW/173610214312
I guess I never tried them because they are quite expensive and available only in US.


----------



## ZRW0

OctavianH said:


> Thanks for advice. I will definitely look into them. These are the ones you are speaking?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Perfect-...bes-1947-Mint-Condition-5692-NEW/173610214312
> I guess I never tried them because they are quite expensive and available only in US.



The VT231 I recommend are black coated.
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/NOS-PAIR-VT...995249?hash=item2847f5fcf1:g:HtIAAOSwrhhaHuM3
Otherwise KenRad VT99 much cheaper than the link I've just found are also very good (need adapters)


----------



## Scutey

Hi Octavian. the Ken Rad VT99 is indeed a very good tube, however recently I went back to the EL3N and tried them with the Tung Sol 7236 which turned out to be a very nice combination, also, a quad of the CV1052 straight bottles is very nice too, particularly good with rock and metal, I have some in at the mo and, after 50+ hours burn in are developing very nicely, and even better they're cheap!.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 13, 2018)

Hi guys, anyone thinking to go the 'no connection' route for top caps - I would advise to use extreme caution and agree with what was previously mentioned that removing these top caps (from EL32 / EL38 / EL12 Spez) would likely come a risk of breaking off the tubes' external wire to in a spot that would render the tube un-usable.

Hey Also @ZRW0  I noticed you have a headphone with a brown wooden grill similar to the Kennerton Odin I tried yesterday at a quiet listening room in Earphone Shop, Seoul. I really loved it at first, and to me the bass definition was much better than HD-800 and a more 'organic' sound than the HD-800 even with slightly less detail and a smaller soundstage... yet after putting it through the paces I realized it to have a slight sub-bass roll off, bass distortion and very uncomfortable earpad fit. I noticed yours is the Kennerton Tror however, is this better?

Also a few interesting observations about the local hi-fi scene of Korea:
- The few who have mid-fi / summit-fi headphones just use them directly from a smartphone 
- As seen around town and with girls at the shop, most who tout semi-decent on-ear headphones opt for a bluetooth connection... to their smartphone of course! 
- People use MP3's even with an expensive DAP 
- Popularity of DACs and headphone amps must be somewhere near 0.0005% at the very best best, seeing how a premier hi-fi headphone shop did not have a single DAC present, save for some first class DAPs (which IMO never compare to a proper DAC). The only headphone amp in this whole huge shop was a solid-state one from Sony. Now for *headphone tube amps* in Korea... these must be more rare than a blue diamond gem and I'd be surprised if there are more than a dozen in this whole country.

In fact this is an awesome place with a gigantic collection of many of the best headphones out there... basically everything except HifiMan, Stax and ZMF. I also tried a new surprise I found called Sennheiser HD-820 which is an HD-800 closed in a transparent backing, but to me I found the soundstage to be artificial and still lacking in the lower register. My favorite besides Focal Utopia, was Sennheiser HD-579 which to me was VASTLY better than the HD-660S, and slightly better than Focal Clear.


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
What was the headphone you liked the best from your previous Japan trip, and how does it compare to the HD579?


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 14, 2018)

Don't have much time, getting ready for the next country tomorrow Bangladesh. On the top of my head I was most impressed with the Senn. HD-380 (huge closed-back), but the recent standout was the Senn. HD-579 which is an open back that both have very different sound signatures. The 380 has that nice semi-dark / thumpy sound with non-fatiguing highs that seems to be ideal for electronic music, and the HD-579 has a sound that I would describe as vivid and robust. Bass that screams "quality" and remarkably straddles the fine line between being underdone on the 600's and bloomy on the 650's, and vastly more detailed than the new 660S, not only in bass but detail galore, without being overdone as well. For me it's a definite compliment to any HD-600 or 650 in a very refreshing way. And the best part it *costs only about 1/3rd* of the 600's, perhaps because of the plastic headband but for me it seems quite solid! I've also tried others like HD-559, 569, 598, 599, etc. and maybe it's a bit closer to 598 but bests anything below the 800 IMO, yet is still better for bass. And it's only 50 vs. 300 ohm so provides a nice change of performance.


For IEMs, I was blown away by the super cheap TFZ Exlcusive 1, which pair well with all DAPs I tried it with and the Euforia too.


----------



## Eylrik

DecentLevi said:


> My favorite besides Focal Utopia, was Sennheiser HD-579 which to me was VASTLY better than the HD-660S, and slightly better than Focal Clear.


.
Well, that's a intriguing statement...slightly better than the Clear...what amp were you using?


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 14, 2018)

I used a Sony solid state amp (the only one they had), and my Onkyo DPX1A DAP. Same sound signature out of both amps, and I liked it better for the bass definition and organic / lifelike sound. The soundstage was at least 90% of the HD-600 but not quite as large as the Clear. I always found the Clear to be like the HD-600 tonality wise but with slightly different signature.

Disclaimer: I can only speculate if the HD 579 pairs well Elise or Euforia. Also to not detail this thread too much, there are some reviews in other places too.


----------



## Eylrik

I totally see the comparison between the hd600 and the Clear.
However what I find quite unique with the Clear is its ability to scale up with the amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

The Senn. HD line are legendary for scaling with higher gear, and the Focal Clear / Utopia as well. Don't want to derail the Euforia thread too much. Ta-ta for now


----------



## ZRW0

DecentLevi said:


> Hey Also @ZRW0  I noticed you have a headphone with a brown wooden grill similar to the Kennerton Odin I tried yesterday at a quiet listening room in Earphone Shop, Seoul. I really loved it at first, and to me the bass definition was much better than HD-800 and a more 'organic' sound than the HD-800 even with slightly less detail and a smaller soundstage... yet after putting it through the paces I realized it to have a slight sub-bass roll off, bass distortion and very uncomfortable earpad fit. I noticed yours is the Kennerton Tror however, is this better?



Hi DL,

Yes I own a Kennerton Tror. It's less "boomy" and more refined and detailed than the Odin. Some say it's close to an Utopia, although I've not been able to try an Utopia myself.

Regarding the well known discomfort of Kennertons, it's absolutely true !

Now, things significantly arrange when you can bend the ark to open it totally (make it totally flat). It won't come fully back to it's initial position after two or three of those full traction, but will become much more comfortable (no more uncomfortable pression on the skull and the jaw).
Also, regarding the earpads, you must set the earcaps as parallel as possible, even though the earpads cushions seems oriented to much at the rear of your ears.
The Tror then becomes much more enjoyable.

Erwan.


----------



## OctavianH

Scutey said:


> Hi Octavian. the Ken Rad VT99 is indeed a very good tube, however recently I went back to the EL3N and tried them with the Tung Sol 7236 which turned out to be a very nice combination, also, a quad of the CV1052 straight bottles is very nice too, particularly good with rock and metal, I have some in at the mo and, after 50+ hours burn in are developing very nicely, and even better they're cheap!.



I will try to find some time and energy to look into those EL tubes again. Unfortunately the burn in process is a "pain" when you own only one 6SN7 amp and you have 2-3 free hours for listening. 
I would be very happy to find an alternative equipment to burn in these tubes until they evolve at a decent level instead of letting them run normally on my main amp. Same for 7236 which are still in the box.

PS and sorry for offtopic: Regarding cheap headphones and portable ones, I had a quite good surprise with the Sennheiser Momentum M2. Build quality is excelent and the sound they provide is much above my expectations. Of course, these 16Ohms ones should not be paired with Elise, in my case the ones used at work stopped working and I had to replace them fast with something decent.


----------



## connieflyer

Getting back to Euforia, was bored yesterday, so started reading this thread from the beginning, and watched how it grew.  About page 30 is where Phil and the rest of the regulars at that time started getting a little silly, while waiting for our own amps.  CJ was the only one with an amp, and we lived vicariously through his findings.  For awhile it was the busiest thread on Head Fi.  Euforia is doing rally great using the coated CV 1052's as drivers and teh TS5998 as powers.  Changed the Dekoni pads on the 800 back to the original pads and like it better this way.  Decided to get a new pair of pads, looked it up on Sennheiser's website and they are now $70 US! Crazy money! Think I will wait till after Christmas for them, sell the Dekoni's to get funds for new pads. Hopefully CJ will have some news on the EL38's in power and driver locations. Sounds like it is going to be an awesome combo.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Getting back to Euforia, was bored yesterday, so started reading this thread from the beginning, and watched how it grew.  About page 30 is where Phil and the rest of the regulars at that time started getting a little silly, while waiting for our own amps.  CJ was the only one with an amp, and we lived vicariously through his findings.  For awhile it was the busiest thread on Head Fi.  Euforia is doing rally great using the coated CV 1052's as drivers and teh TS5998 as powers.  Changed the Dekoni pads on the 800 back to the original pads and like it better this way.  Decided to get a new pair of pads, looked it up on Sennheiser's website and they are now $70 US! Crazy money! Think I will wait till after Christmas for them, sell the Dekoni's to get funds for new pads. Hopefully CJ will have some news on the EL38's in power and driver locations. Sounds like it is going to be an awesome combo.



Hi cf...it is indeed nice sometimes to take that trip down memory lane...even if it is a _very_ long one lol! . Especially if one tries to go back over all the Elise threads as well!!! . The downside being reminded that our dear friend Phil is no longer with us, of course . But we can still cherish his memory, and the welcome input he made to our community...

Now then folks...time to give my (probably!) final account of the EL32/EL38 trials (with a few words on upgraded fuses thrown in...like it or not!!).

So as not to be _too_ indigestible (who, me?!), I shall precis as much as possible in number format...(with the usual proviso..._in my system!_).

1. The *Mullard EL32* (viz my ST CV1052) is finally confirmed to my satisfaction as being the best driver* ever* to have graced my Euforia...because...

2. The *Mullard EL38* (in my case the military CV450) - as power tube - is basically an EL32 _*on steroids!*_, and highlights the 32's qualities to perfection. In addition, it *enhances *the latter's bass and treble extremes to a good degree...which will suit especially systems and/or ears that need/want this extra boost. And it does so with a total control, balance and cohesiveness that is uncanny, to say the least. And even more importantly IMHO, it does so _*at no cost whatsoever to the 32's wonderful mids supremacy*_ _*and soundstage.*_ In fact, the 3D stage has even more _depth_...although this has possibly been helped also by the upgraded Euforia internal fuse...more below...

In summary, once again I find it hard to believe that this amp can sound so good with 'unconventional' tubes...and that this combo now surpasses _*in all areas*_, every other tube and combo I have ever tried...which include both top flight drivers and power tubes...and even my quad EL32 setup. The EL32 and EL38 are simply a match _truly_ made in Heaven...full stop.

ps. Re. upgraded fuses... I will just say that for me, the 13A one in the main, mains cable brought small (but noticeable) changes in more precise bass and overall clarity. The internal one for Euforia seemed to take longer to show much difference, but after nearly 24hrs, it would definitely appear to have helped the EL38s improve (solidify) their FR extension; further enhance mids presentation; increase the already extremely good instruments and voice separation/placement, bringing greater overall clarity and a clean, 'polished' sound; and as touched on earlier, an even more impressive holographic soundstage, complete with added depth. 

     Obviously, many (if not _most_) of these improvements might possibly be down to further burn-in of the EL38s, but to me, it seems rather a coincidence. At the very least, I believe both fuses have in fact _helped_ in the overall improvement in my system. As mentioned before, much will undoubtedly depend on the rest of one's system...they will not, and _cannot_ of course be a remedy for 'bottlenecks' or distortion (of any kind) elsewhere. But my reasoning is that it makes no sense at all to spend a fair bit of money on mains power conditioning and really good power cords, to then (in the case of the amp's internals) pass this wonderfully 'clean' electricity through a dirt cheap piece of fuse wire...no sense at all! The fuse _before_ all this wonderful treatment perhaps makes less sense, but all I know is that it did in fact make a (small) difference...perhaps by at least not _adding_ to the noise already coming in from the mains supply and/or not acting as so much of a 'bottleneck' to the flow of electrons...?

Whatever, if anyone is interested in this area, I would recommend staying away from 'AMR' gold fuses...not impressed with build quality, and didn't bring much noticeable benefit. 'Furutec' seem to be well regarded, but I have been very happy with my 'reasonably' priced ones from 'Hi-Fi Tuning'. And although vastly more expensive than bog standard fuses, well worth the investment IMHO...tiny, in fact, compared to the rest of most folks' systems lol! 

pps. Re. the EL38...I have been in touch with Mrs X, and hope to see adapters available very soon. Whether the top cap connection, being anode as opposed to EL32's _grid,_ presents the same problem as with the EL12 Spezial - ie. hum! - is not yet known of course. But if it does, I'm sure the remedy of using small ferrite chokes (or perhaps just one) attached to the anode wire will prove just as effective. This notwithstanding, I cannot praise this tube enough, and heartily recommend keeping an eye out for _reasonably_ priced ones...there are some silly prices out there! 

ppps. Did I say _precis?_...ah well, I did try lol!!!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Reading your description of the trials and tribulations of the EL 38 makes me wonder if you are SURE they are that good! They sound fantastic and the fact that you contacted Mrs. X and adapters will be available, is great news for the rest of us.  I would imagine that with the advent of the coming adapters, more folks will want to try these combinations.  Looking forward to these myself.  Thanks for all the investigating and reaching a sucessful conclusion


----------



## aqsw

I am trying to to ignore all the el38, , 1052 posts. I just have rolled so many tubes, spending alot of $$$.
I settled on the EL12N powers and EL3N drivers for both my Elise and Euforia. The amps love them (no heat),
and at my age they sound fantastic. Just dont want or need to get into it again. I still roll some of the tubes I have, but I keep on going back to this 
arrangement.


----------



## connieflyer

Nothing wrong with that combo at all.  I chased tubes for awhile, had a lot of expensive tubes, and found they were  not that much better compared to price.  Last night I tried the CV1052's paired with my EL12 Spez's and the sound is excellent. Like it better than a quad of CV's so far. One of the  nice things about the cv's is they are inexpensive for the value they bring.


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 16, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Reading your description of the trials and tribulations of the EL 38 makes me* wonder if you are SURE they are that good!* They sound fantastic and the fact that you contacted Mrs. X and adapters will be available, is great news for the rest of us.  I would imagine that with the advent of the coming adapters, more folks will want to try these combinations.  Looking forward to these myself.  Thanks for all the investigating and reaching a sucessful conclusion



Hi cf....never been _more_ sure of anything lol!! ...superior to the mighty GEC CV2523/A1834 _and_ TFK EL12 Spezial..._in my system, of course!!_  They are in fact well exceeding the high hopes I had for them, especially after the findings of those DIYers mentioned by @Johnnysound a while back (btw J, I should imagine the auto-bias must also apply to the drivers, given how our amps have been able to perform so well with many different, non-conventional tubes in that role also...wonderful...and many thanks F-A!!).

And with the bass and treble boost already of just 2x EL38s (as powers), I myself doubt very much indeed whether two also as drivers will suit my own system and ears...will probably be way _too_ much for me lol! But will certainly try this combo once more just to be sure, when I have adapted another pair.

But, as ever, I await your own findings, given you are the chief tester of my new adaptation results...tubes on their way as I speak. I'm so sorry I can't offer this service to others, but at least you can then confirm to them whether or not said tubes are worth a gamble...albeit having to use Mrs X's adapters! (which seem to be pretty well OK in the main lol ).



aqsw said:


> I am trying to to ignore all the el38, , 1052 posts. I just have rolled so many tubes, spending alot of $$$.
> I settled on the EL12N powers and EL3N drivers for both my Elise and Euforia. The amps love them (no heat),
> and at my age they sound fantastic. Just dont want or need to get into it again. I still roll some of the tubes I have, but I keep on going back to this
> arrangement.



Hi aqsw.

I can understand what you say...sometimes I do indeed wonder about this downside of my curiosity and subsequent roll call of so many different 'unconventional' tubes, especially. I too have quite a collection of excellent tubes that no longer see the light of day, having been usurped by later ones lol! . But this is always the case for 'trailblazers', no?!  And hindsight is a wonderful thing...especially when said later tubes turn out to be FAR cheaper than conventional top-tier ones!

At least you yourself have finally found - and settled upon - a combo that not only suits your particular tastes, but also costs relative peanuts...good one, aq!! ...(but you may well be wise not to read of any more drooling over the EL32/EL38 combo..._*if you can, mon ami!*_...). CHEERS!...and continued HAPPY LISTENING, courtesy of Feliks-Audio's excellent amps... ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 16, 2018)

Well H, for now I will have to take your opinion that the e l 38 is better in the power seat than the el12 s p e z. I tried these last night and this morning and they sound excellent. Of course I am always open to something that sounds even better! I do hope at some point, that there are no more tubes left to try! How will we ever even want a new amplifier, if the one we have does everything that we want it to? Yes I know we don't need another amplifier! But, need does not have anything to do, with want! If fa new amplifier is all that I have heard it may be a worthy addition to my system. At the moment it would be redundant, but then I could always sell the new receiver that's only a few months old! But for right now I am extremely happy with what I hear both on the main system and the headphone system. FA has done a fantastic job of creation, of course with your help, and Discerning technical abilities.


----------



## ZRW0

connieflyer said:


> Nothing wrong with that combo at all.  I chased tubes for awhile, had a lot of expensive tubes, and found they were  not that much better compared to price.  Last night I tried the CV1052's paired with my EL12 Spez's and the sound is excellent. Like it better than a quad of CV's so far. One of the  nice things about the cv's is they are inexpensive for the value they bring.


Well, now that the Ferrite chores saved my EL12Spez from all parasitic noises (thanks @hypnos1 for the hint), I'm fulling enjoying the same configuration as you @connieflyer : CV1052 as drivers, and EL12Spez as Powers. 

And what a tremendous pairing !... Especially associated with the solid state amp and the speakers.
 

PS: BTW, all my spared/extra CV1052s are now gone  Just kept one pair, the one I burnt  as drivers.


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Well, now that the Ferrite chores saved my EL12Spez from all parasitic noises (thanks @hypnos1 for the hint), I'm fulling enjoying the same configuration as you @connieflyer : CV1052 as drivers, and EL12Spez as Powers.
> 
> And what a tremendous pairing !... Especially associated with the solid state amp and the speakers.
> 
> ...


----------



## ZRW0

Ok, so thanks a lot to @hpamdr !


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## hypnos1 (Nov 16, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Well H, for now I will have to take your opinion that the e l 38 is better in the power seat than the el12 s p e z. I tried these last night and this morning and they sound excellent. Of course I am always open to something that sounds even better! I do hope at some point, that there are no more tubes left to try! How will we ever even want a new amplifier, if the one we have does everything that we want it to? Yes I know we don't need another amplifier! But, need does not have anything to do, with want! If fa new amplifier is all that I have heard it may be a worthy addition to my system. At the moment it would be redundant, but then I could always sell the new receiver that's only a few months old! But for right now I am extremely happy with what I hear both on the main system and the headphone system. FA has done a fantastic job of creation, of course with your help, and Discerning technical abilities.



Yes indeed cf...the EL12 Spezial will always have a special place in my heart - a very 'spezial' tube, to be sure lol! . And now that my CV450s (EL38s) are getting nicely burned in, I must do the  head-to-head that @DecentLevi asked for...auditory memory being notoriously short!!  But having said that, I must admit excellent though they (the Spezials) are, nothing before has hit me quite as hard, so quickly as these 38s...could it be the new upgraded fuses?...hmmmm...they might be good, but _that_ good? I can't wait to see, mon ami...

ps. And though these 38s develop (much!) faster than the 32s, they too have the latter's ability to keep confounding you with further burn-in... ...



ZRW0 said:


> Well, now that the Ferrite chores saved my EL12Spez from all parasitic noises (thanks @hypnos1 for the hint), I'm fulling enjoying the same configuration as you @connieflyer : CV1052 as drivers, and EL12Spez as Powers.
> 
> And what a tremendous pairing !... Especially associated with the solid state amp and the speakers.
> 
> ...



Really glad to hear those ferrite chokes did the trick for you ZRW0...it would have been tragic indeed if you couldn't enjoy the magic of the EL12 Spezial. And glad also that with the EL32 as drivers, you are getting more of what you like lol! .

Glad too that you have been able to give someone else the chance to experience just what the EL32 - specifically the ST CV1052 with internal coating - is capable of delivering...ENJOY!...

ps. Thanks indeed to hpamdr!...


----------



## connieflyer

Zrwo how do you like the Mc?  I have longed for that for quite a while, beautiful desgn.

H, I have been using the El 12 Spez most of the day, and all I can say is if the El 38 is even better, I will be indeed be blown away!  I want to thank you for all the tubes you converted for me in the past, and now this new pair be as you say, giant killers. I know your work s exceptional, and our equipment and musical tastes are similar, so I can hardly wait till they show. I hope I can live up to your expectations!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Zrwo how do you like the Mc?  I have longed for that for quite a while, beautiful desgn.
> 
> H, I have been using the El 12 Spez most of the day, and all I can say is if the El 38 is even better, I will be indeed be blown away!  I want to thank you for all the tubes you converted for me in the past, and now this new pair be as you say, giant killers. I know your work s exceptional, and our equipment and musical tastes are similar, so I can hardly wait till they show. I hope I can live up to your expectations!



I've a sly suspicion you may well have to be ready for a head transplant, cf!!! ...be warned lol! . However, an honest personal opinion is all I ask...we're all different, after all...

And it's been my pleasure to hopefully bring just a little solace, given your past sad losses. 

It would appear the 'giant killers'(?!) are on American soil already...the rest is up to USPS(!!!!!!). Hopefully these 'precious' - as Gollum would say - arrive soon, safe and sound ...BFN...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well, if a head transplant is necessary, I will put it on the list with the other parts that should be replaced! An honest opinion is exactly what I intend, anything else wold be political, and I am not going down that path! Wow that was a quick trip, have to run the number at usps, would not want to miss them, thanks again, and yes, they do help get me back where I need to be.


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## connieflyer (Nov 17, 2018)

There was a time when I had to have all the latest, greatest speaker systems. It was addictive! Then I saw Jerry Garcia's Wall of Sound system and decided I would not be able to keep up with addiction.!  Obviously not powered by Euforia!


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## ZRW0 (Nov 17, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Zrwo how do you like the Mc?  I have longed for that for quite a while, beautiful desgn.



By answering this, I'll be rather long and off the topic for a while. but will try to re-attach to the Euforia eventually.

I was previously "only" owning a HD800S paired to a Chord Hugo 2, before ordering my Euforia.
While waiting for my Euforia to be built (there was some unexpected delay at the factory machining the frame, Lukasz Feliks from FA contacted me to apologize several times), I discovered a HiFi dealer I was not aware of in the Grenoble city. The young woman who is co-owning the store let me tried whatever I wanted in her shop. 

At first, I've been totally blown away and immediately seduced by the B&W 805D3 speakers. The way so small things could provide such a huge sound, especially in the bass section, totally amazed me.
I've been given the opportunity to try several amps to pair the with B&W, and was rather interested by a Luxman at the beginning (old memory of having listening to a Luxman system when I was a kid).
I was not knowing much about McIntosh actually, when I entered the shop.

The Luxman I tried was L-590AXII if I recall well, in pure A class.
But the different listening sessions quickly turned for the worse with the Luxman. Although the sound was absolutely brilliant on Jazz and Rock/Progressive-Rock, it was totally disappointing to me on complex classical/opera records and/or electronic music (totally messy/inaccurate, poor spatialisation...).

Then came the McIntosh and a Marantz, both in the same price range than the Luxman. I quickly put aside the Marantz, as it sounded too smooth (shy) to me.
So, remained the McIntosh. And what I liked with the Mc is whatever you throw at it, it will just re-transcribe it with the best fidelity as possible. So, although it doesn't have the total same ease of the Luxman on Jazz and Rock, it isn't very far from it. And it has absolutely no issue providing you with all the details and micro details of big orchestras and electronic musics with multiple tracks. Everything is well separated, readable, and well positioned in space.

There's a big BUT nevertheless. Although definitely superior (to me) to its Marantz and Luxman competitors, how deceiving it was, out of the box on some records.
From what I recall from my trials, the playing of "Holst, the Planets" from H. von Karajan, or of "Siamese Dreams" from Smashing Pumpkins, or of "A night at the Opera" from Queen (yes I have various musical tastes), all ended up in an "indigestible sound muck"...
I then suspected the internal Dac of the MA5300 not to be that good, and came back to the store a couple of days later with my Hugo 2 with me for some new listening sessions...
And all problems vanished with the Hugo 2 as Dac on the Mc. I also tried the Hugo 2 on the Luxman and the Marantz but not with the same success.

At the time the Mc and the B&Ws were delivered to me, I had received the Euforia, and the Tror.
After some good burn-in of the B&Ws (I was complaining at the duration of the CV1052 tubes, but definitely the burn-in of the B&Ws has been much worse !), I quickly tried the Hugo 2 connected to the Euforia, and then the Euforia connected to the Mc. I immediately found it was improving the sound of the overall system, even with the Euforia's stock tubes (Svetlanas and Psvane CV181 MkII). The Euforia brings more dynamics, and seems to provide a even more holographic perception of the sound. The music becomes fully realistic. With the eyes closed, the room becomes even larger than it actually is, and you can feel (not even only listen, but feel "organically") every instrument present in the room with you, playing just for you...

And now, if I only use the Hugo 2 and the Mc, I find the sound slightly flat, and less charming than when the Euforia is also brought in...


----------



## ZRW0

Back to pure Euforia and tube rolling business.

Can someone explain me the following (I may accept answers implying my psyche isn't quite sane) : every time I'm starting to get seduced by the EL tubes (whatever the CV1052, EL12 Spez, ...) after a couple of days I'm getting disappointed as I feel "something" which I can't nail down, is still lacking in the sound restitution with those tubes.

So I'm back again to a Ken-Rad-VT99/TS-7236 combo which I now find superior in all aspects to the CV1052/El12Spez...


----------



## connieflyer

Wow, nice detail on your equipment, and the way you went about it. If I might, the El's to me, have a more delicate sound to them, not soft, but more ethereal, very accurate top to bottom, but sometimes to me, they sound like there is some "meat" missing. I enjoyed the vt-99's quite a bit. They had the lower and mid ranges pretty well dialed in. But after awhile, they too lacked that "something". Went back to KR Vt231's, better, but still "something". Tried the GEC's 6as7 and 6080, lot's of what was missing, but "something" still held it open. Went back to the quad Cd1052's something is back again, but not enough of it. Very satisfying but still  "something". That is when I tried the EL12 Spez and Cv 1052's, "something" was there, it was back. And after a few days, "something" had gone missing a little bit. Now listening to H's description, on the el38 and el32 combo, it sounds like he has found "something"!  I am trying to patient waiting for the the results to see if this will indeed be the missing link.  Believe me, I am very close now.  Using the Senn 800 this is very good indeed.  I put my Schiit Gumby back in the circuit and it has helped raise my enjoyment to close to what I am looking for.  If the El38's close the deal, I will be a happy camper.  If not there is always the new FA amp coming up. Or perhaps, I just can not be satisfied! That is also a very real problem afraid. But knowing H's extreme attention to detail, and his constant journey for perfection, and the verbige he now uses, I think he has it now.  He has always spoke favorably of his finds and what he hears.  But now with this tube, the El38 has captivated him!  His chain of signal path is about as good as anyone has, better than most I am sure. And this sounds like the missing piece of the puzzle to me. If you do not think H1 is excited, you are not reading his posts closely enough.  I have read and understood what he is saying for quite awhile now, and his tone on this review of tubes is stellar. HIs signal chain, is as good as any I have seen or heard about, his attention to the smallest things, be they components or wire, direct connections, or equipment, he has given the signal about as much help as possible. And by this I believe him when he says it has never been better.  So the wait continues. Do not be surprised if my results parallel his, similar tastes, similar equipment, but it will be an honest opinion regardless. I am hoping these new El38's finally put my system where I want it to be.  Hope this helps.


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Back to pure Euforia and tube rolling business.
> 
> Can someone explain me the following (I may accept answers implying my psyche isn't quite sane) : every time I'm starting to get seduced by the EL tubes (whatever the CV1052, EL12 Spez, ...) after a couple of days I'm getting disappointed as I feel "something" which I can't nail down, is still lacking in the sound restitution with those tubes.
> 
> So I'm back again to a Ken-Rad-VT99/TS-7236 combo which I now find superior in all aspects to the CV1052/El12Spez...



Hi ZRW0.

No, you're quite sane, mon ami...it's a simple case of 'different strokes for different folks' lol!...witness, for example, that not everyone shares quite the same love as yourself for the mighty McIntosh!! . We all prefer - and our brains *look* for certain aspects in sounds heard...be it music or otherwise. Not to mention all ears have different levels of response within the frequency range... (and this is very much simplifying the whole process lol!). Much of this is on a_ sub_conscious level, which explains why so often we just _feel_ something isn't quite right, or _missing_. Another brain would possibly not understand this at all...but probably feel this way about something else!! All quite normal...and often mystifying/frustrating/_controversy-inducing_.

However, as in most things, _tastes_ can  - and do - change, just as our hearing does physically over time. As for myself, the particular qualities of the quad EL32 setup, for example, satisfied what I was happy with (on balance), and my brain ignored those aspects that seemed less important/prominent. _*All*_ equipment can only be a compromise - no such thing as the 'perfect' setup.

And so for each of us, there must always be certain 'gaps', whether we recognise them or not. In my own case, these new EL38 tubes have indeed highlighted such gaps in my own listening preferences...despite being happy enough as I was before! But for me, any additional qualities must _never_ be at the expense of what attracted me previously...hence my surprise (and joy!) at what I'm now hearing...ie. EL32 *plus*.

No doubt a tube as yet undiscovered may well bring even more to the table...but hopefully my brain will now settle (once again) for what it's fed - for a good long while to come lol!!! 

ps. I now look forward especially to hearing whether these EL38s manage to provide that 'missing something' for you @connieflyer ...or at least how your own brain takes/not takes to the new sound lol! ...(and if something's still missing, _please_ don't ask me to find yet another tube!!! ). CHEERS...CJ


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## ZRW0

Yes I agree @connieflyer .
What you describe as a "lack of meat" is what I previously called a "hollow sound" with EL family.

It may eventually just be a matter of trade off between wide soundstage/aeration (EL/CV1052) and full texture (VT99/VT231). 
After a few days of one, I miss the other...


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## connieflyer

Life is full of adjustments. Our bodies change, or surrondings change, and what pleases us change as well.  When I look back on Life's journey I am constantly reminded that what was is not what is, I look back at all the old recordings I have, and I am pleased to see the journey that I took to arrive at what I know consider enjoyment. What pleased me in the past, is now, changed to a degree that surprised me. I find beauty in places and music that thirty years ago, I would never have considered. The one constant has always been music, it has changed but it is still the music. It has had a profound effect on my life, and the enjoyment I have received and shared with. So the fact that we have the need to chase after the end of the rainbow, just adds to the interest in life itself. Okay, now back to more mundane things, what shall I have for lunch?


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## ZRW0

@hypnos1 , @connieflyer ,

Guys, if you may, let's go back to more concrete things 

I'd be happy to share the EL38 adventure and to acquire those tubes as well, but I don't know how the adapters shall be made.
And frankly speaking, I'd prefer not to build them myself (bad souvenance of me vs a soldering iron - spoiler: it won...)


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## hypnos1 (Nov 18, 2018)

Hi @ZRW0 ....if there's one thing I've learned in my 5 years here in head-fi, it's that there's very little indeed that's truly _concrete_ in this hobby of ours lol! .

But now, having said that, I can certainly make a pretty tangible (if short!) report on the *EL38 vs EL12 Spezial* knockout fight...as refereed by my own system, at least...

Short, because I only needed 3 tracks to confirm why I never usually go _back_ once I move onto my next 'best' find... ie. with the *EL38* :

1. Bass hits with much more solidity, detail and control.

2. Tones and overtones in acoustic instruments are extended significantly...for example, the various 'exotic' Eastern instruments used in Loreena McKennitt's album 'An Ancient Muse' - as well as string bass and cello - exude a much more exciting character and richness.

3. The EL32's mastery at separation and placement is _enhanced_, whereas the EL12 Spezial - in comparison - seems to compress the sound of massed instruments, and results in less clarity and cohesion (the main reason I ended up preferring the 32 also as powers, in fact). This was highlighted especially by my test track 'Duke's Travels', on Genesis's album 'Duke'. This has such a riot of instrumentals that they can soon become swamped in a blur of sound, losing much of their individual definition. With the 38s in place, Euforia maintains a wonderful balanced, controlled 'sharpness', like a hot knife through butter..._delicious!!
_
4_. _The overall impression is one of masterful handling of all the aspects regarding top class reproduction, including  PRaT, extended FR; definition; clarity; dynamics etc. And all with _effortless_ ease. The music  is delivered in a wonderfully natural 'organic' way...nothing seems out of balance, forced or too prominent. A truly 'polished'/refined performance, even when faced with extremely complex, massed information...control is maintained throughout.

I could point out more subtle qualities of this partnership with the EL32, but suffice to say that I personally have never before heard such a perfect marriage of driver and power tubes in my amp. For me, this combination delivers a good bit more than any other to date..._without question_. I shall say no more......CHEERS!...and g'night all...zzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Back to pure Euforia and tube rolling business.
> 
> Can someone explain me the following (I may accept answers implying my psyche isn't quite sane) : every time I'm starting to get seduced by the EL tubes (whatever the CV1052, EL12 Spez, ...) after a couple of days I'm getting disappointed as I feel "something" which I can't nail down, is still lacking in the sound restitution with those tubes.
> 
> So I'm back again to a Ken-Rad-VT99/TS-7236 combo which I now find superior in all aspects to the CV1052/El12Spez...


Hi ZRW0,
Did it ever happen to you that you turn on your system with your favorite components and tubes and......nothing sounds good.
Happens to me sometimes. Another day everything sounds great - can't figure it out. Maybe it has to do with time of day I am listening - at times there is much more demand on the electrical grid that may produce interference say compared to late at night or on a weekend. Or maybe my mood or brain changes - don't know.
There are people that claim that there is no such a thing as burn in of tubes, but rather your brain getting used to a certain new sound, which takes time. (I personally believe that burn-in makes a (sometimes huge) difference. But your mind needs time as well to adjust to a new sound, sometimes days and days.
In any case, I also don't believe that first impressions always are accurate. As you describe, it oftentimes takes an extended time to fully appreciate how something new sounds. Something may sound great at first, but then there is this niggling uneasy feeling that something doesn't sound right, but you cannot put your finger on it. On the other hand, when you change the tubes to something else that you really like, you suddenly take a breath of relief - that something bothering you is gone!
We all have different equipment and tastes. The main thing is to find what *you* like. Sometimes you learn from reading on Head-Fi that someone hears things the same way you do, and then you can rely on that person's recommendations.
Have fun!


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## Johnnysound (Nov 18, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Nothing wrong with that combo at all.  I chased tubes for awhile, had a lot of expensive tubes, and found they were  not that much better compared to price.  Last night I tried the CV1052's paired with my EL12 Spez's and the sound is excellent. Like it better than a quad of CV's so far. One of the  nice things about the cv's is they are inexpensive for the value they bring.





ZRW0 said:


> Well, now that the Ferrite chores saved my EL12Spez from all parasitic noises (thanks @hypnos1 for the hint), I'm fulling enjoying the same configuration as you @connieflyer : CV1052 as drivers, and EL12Spez as Powers.
> 
> And what a tremendous pairing !... Especially associated with the solid state amp and the speakers.
> 
> ...



Terrific combo that one, Cf and Zr !  Among the very best I have heard in the Euforia.  And as @ZRW0 have experienced (as I said many times before) the Euforia was simply born to drive SS amps...the holographic sound, the unrestricted dynamics, the “tube like” presentation...you name it.

And I have used quite a few excellent preamps with my dual NAD monitor amps (250 w+ each) ...SS, tubed and even TVC passive...but nothing like this.  The OTLs totally dominated the SS amps, making them sound at their very best ... and I bet this includes your nice McIntosh.  A word of caution:  I blew a pair of drivers  in my speakers for being too enthusiastic:  the OTL out is WAY more  powerful and unrestricted than other preamps (forget the specs) and the NADs, (capable of short dynamic peaks of about 450 watts) proved to be an outright dangerous combination. Lesson learned the hard way:   from then on, I used the SS amps at 1/4 their output level...

The EL32/CV1052  are staying  as my reference drivers, for their unequaled transparency, accuracy and quietness...and what I call their “natural sinergy” with virtually any power tube you can imagine...specially with other  “EL family” power tubes.  There is definitely something special happening here, so it cames as no surprise for me that the EL38s sound so good as our “discoverer” @hypnos1 reports.

And recalling @aqsw favorite combo (EL3N/EL12N), I have not heard the EL3N, but certainly the  TFK EL11 (virtually the same as the EL3N with a different base)..combined with the EL12N and it is a splendid set.  I repeat myself once more regarding the East German RFT/RSD EL12N:  this is a fantastic power tube in the Euforia (relatively cheap) that after a good burn in sounds like the very definition of purity and transparency...along with tight bass and dynamics  to die for...the EL12 spezials sound a bit “laid back” in comparison (probably great with cans), but in preamp duties the deliciously “raw”, open sound of the EL12N is hard to beat.

Great pair with the EL11s (EL3N) as drivers, that bring refinement and control to the mix.  However, paired with the EL32...there was another level of clarity, openess and definition.   In my system, now with a tube power amp that perhaps needs that kind of sound.  I tested extensively the Mullards EL32 “straight glass” as drivers, including some 60 hours  “burn in” and can say that they are at least as good as the STs...at around $ 5 each (plus adaptors) these must be the bargain of the century...


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## DecentLevi

Hey folks, had a good read on recent pages - big props to the Feliks team and H1 for an amp that still has potential up it's sleeves this much later after inception... I shall say the saga continues. And I'd say for anybody on the sidelines about the EL38, the sooner the better because we've all seen about 'inflation' caused by praise heaped at a tube in the past. That's why I got in as early as possible on my EL38's (though untested at least I got 6 in case some don't work). And I'd recon the upcoming adapters should not be much more than $10-$15 should the become available from Mrs. X.

At the same time I applaud those who are stickin' with preferred tube combos past, because as stated recently hearing is subjective (to individual tastes / perception / environment), and one can be content rather than following the rabbit hole every time something new comes out; but for me I may be more of the ladder HahA.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 19, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey folks, had a good read on recent pages - big props to the Feliks team and H1 for an amp that still has potential up it's sleeves this much later after inception... I shall say the saga continues. And I'd say for anybody on the sidelines about the EL38, the sooner the better because we've all seen about 'inflation' caused by praise heaped at a tube in the past. That's why I got in as early as possible on my EL38's (though untested at least I got 6 in case some don't work). And I'd recon the upcoming adapters should not be much more than $10-$15 should the become available from Mrs. X.
> 
> At the same time I applaud those who are stickin' with preferred tube combos past, because as stated recently hearing is subjective (to individual tastes / perception / environment), and one can be content rather than following the rabbit hole every time something new comes out; but for me I may be more of the ladder HahA.



WELL DONE DL...from some of the prices already out there (especially in $), your prompt action has indeed bagged you what must be yet _another_ bargain of the century lol! . And as an added bonus - as I mentioned before - these EL38s do *not* need to be stacked (or otherwise) in multiples, thank goodness. Which, for me, is a far more attractive proposition. And if you still need/want an even _more_ powerful sound than when driven by the wonderful EL32, used as drivers also will blow away your ears...but in a nice way lol ....(A shame you won't be back home for a good while yet I believe...).

And any sign yet of your own 38s @Johnnysound ? Hopefully you will also be trying them as powers to your 32s...or even - if you dare(!) - as a quad? Can't wait for your own impressions...on their construction as well as sound. Since the magnificent GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834, I have never seen such a beautifully constructed tube...(can't take my eyes off them, actually!!).


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## hypnos1 (Nov 19, 2018)

Hi guys...just another quick update on you-know-what! 

And joy of joys, the fantastic synergy of EL32s and 38s has also remedied the very slight volume imbalance my setup has had for a while now (not surprising really, given my Euforia is the prototype, and my 'tinkering' with all the rest of the gear also lol! ).

With the final output volume actually determined by the _drivers_' signal to the powers (taken from the cathode), and the 38 delivering more juice, I decided to try swapping my right channel tubes about - ie. the 38 as _driver_ and the 32 as _power_...et voila, _perfect_ balance restored!... this with the other 2 tubes *both* being EL38s.
And not only _this_ Christmas(?!) present, but also an extra dose of powerful sound over and above that already provided by the 2x32/2x38 combo. Plus, fortunately, not entering the dizzying (for me!) territory of *four* EL38s.

And so the perfect antidote for slight channel imbalances - which can happen for a whole host of reasons - or slight differences in our ears' hearing (quite common also, alas...).

Thus - for me - the end game must surely be *3x EL38s and 1x EL32*...especially as the former lose none of the latter's formidable qualities, and actually _add_ a whole load more lol! ...

ps. Did I say (once again) 'end game'?..._please_ let it be this time!...(but have yet to hear F-A's new amp...not that I could probably afford it anyway!!!).

pps. Have just noticed an EL3*7* going on ebay for *£165!!* And, to me, they look identical to the 3*8*, except the latter has the top anode cap...make of that what you will lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## ZRW0 (Nov 20, 2018)

Hello,

I’m starting to get a bit nervous with my CV1052s, the ones that took so looooooooong to burn in. They have become quite capricious recently.
Yesterday, one of the two tubes stayed mute. When carefully looking at it, the small red incandescent dot at the top of the tube was missing...

I first suspected the adapters, so I swapped the adapters and the problem remained with the same tube.
Then I replaced both adapters with a totally new set I had as an extra (I’m kind of a cautious person, always needIng extra/spare parts in case of troubles), and still same issue. Just to make sure the Euforia wasn’t in cause, I changed the two tubes for other drivers, no issue.

Switched back to CV1052s, and the issue was back... I was starting to get resigned and ready to say farewell to those beloved tubes when I tried to swap the tubes left/right.
And the red dot was back at the top of the two tubes !!!
Listened to them and everything was ok...

This morning, the other tube stayed mute... I pulled it out of the adapter and back in, switched on the Euforia again, and it was back in.

The typical kind of Gremlins I hate. As any of you already experienced this ? Shall I worry for the tubes or rather for the amp (much more scary ) ?

Thanks,

Erwan


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## connieflyer

Zrwo, that is a new one on me. I have over 110 hours on one pair and over two hundred on the other pair and nsy a hickup. These are turning out to be the best tubes I have used. I am anxious to get the El 38's from H1 and start down that path to see if I get the same results as H. I will be starting out with a pair of well burned in Cv1052' and a pair of El 38's and see how thses work compared to a qua of cv1052. Last night I replaced the El 12 Spez with the El 12N and this is another very good combination.


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## DecentLevi

@ZRW0 my opinion leans strongly toward a tube failure. IMHO if you can still get a little life out of it then feel free - as long as it still works for the moment and nothing is overheating. However tubes that exhibit such quirks are in their 'final retirement stages', especially if the same issue returns on different sockets / adapters.


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## ZRW0

Hi @DecentLevi,

I already have tube that died, but once mute/off it has always been forever. The problem was never transient, They never "resuscitated". 
Note that my CV1052s sound particularly well today, I mean better than ever... Their swan song maybe ?...


----------



## connieflyer

If it is "their swan song" enjoy it while you can. it could be a tube, hard to imagine it could be the amp. If the problem follows the tube it is pretty obvious then. What could cause is not clear. Did you perhaps shake the tube when out of the circuit to see if there was anything loose inside? Years ago, when I was in the service, I had a tube have intermittent life and found it had something inside rattling around. Put back in circuit as did not have another spare, and had twelve hours left on the mission and it kept working.  Don't recall that it ever failed, while I had that aircraft.  Perhaps you will get lucky as well.


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Hi @DecentLevi,
> 
> I already have tube that died, but once mute/off it has always been forever. The problem was never transient, They never "resuscitated".
> Note that my CV1052s sound particularly well today, I mean better than ever... Their swan song maybe ?...


Hi ZRW0,
I would not worry about the tube - it sounds to me like a pin in the adapter is not connecting properly. Take a look at the tube pins - maybe they need a little bit of cleaning. Easiest and best way is to gently scrape them with dull knife blade, scissors etc..


----------



## hypnos1

Just a quickie before dinner...and great news re. _*four *_EL38s.

Hey @ZRW0 ...sorry to hear of your intermittent problem (the worst kind - short of arcing lol!!), especially after your commendable patience.

From your description it's obviously the heater(s) that are playing up...if other tubes are OK, your amp is fine, no problem. And this is sometimes down to the pins not being really clean - have you checked them carefully? Fine emery paper is good for a final 'polish', or scraping with a fine edge if there's more obvious crud! Sometimes the solder connection in pins of old tubes can come a bit 'loose', and can _sometimes_ be remedied by resoldering said pin bottoms. Failing these - and assuming the adapters are OK, which seems to be the case - then the heaters are indeed probably on their way out, alas...
Did you buy these as NOS or used? If NOS and not too long ago, you might well have some redress with the seller...if you're really lucky lol! 

Good luck with possibly finding the cause and possible remedy. As with cf, I myself have tried a good many of these tubes, and not a single one has had any issue whatsoever. If yours persists, you must be one hell of an unlucky guy!! ...


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## hypnos1 (Nov 20, 2018)

OK...suitably refreshed, I couldn't resist this latest combo comparison :

If for you....


 
                                                       ie 4x EL32s
                                  =


Then :


                                                  ie. 4x EL38s
*=*

* *

And despite my earlier implications - @Johnnysound , @connieflyer , @DecentLevi and anyone else interested(!) - my initial slight shock at 4x EL38s' overly dynamic sound is, thanks to that magical phenomenon...burn-in, maturing into something that is literally like going from Elise to Euforia..._but even more so!_

The powerful delivery is now almost like listening to a totally different amp...one in another league entirely...quite unbelievable. And with even more clarity and spaciousness than the EL32. And this is before _full_ burn-in, I'm sure.

My one big regret is that my slight channel imbalance demands just 3 EL38s, accompanying 1 EL32...but fortunately this only means the loss of one small tooth lol!!  

So, folks, colour me.._.totally dumbfounded_...

ps. Mind you, when called for, said King of Beasts can also be :




pps. Am in the process of hopefully bagging some more mint condition 38s...so all will now depend on Mrs X's adapters, it would appear...not to mention confirmation of my own findings, of course!....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

That is fantastic news!  I know you were concerned about the quad El38's being a bit too much for you, but now with burn in you are one happy camper!  I put a bid in four a couple of used tubes but lost it.  They were cheaper but the only other ones I see from over here are over $150 a pair. Did not want to swing that hard not knowing for sure Mrs X would be building the adapters.  Good news, though, the sun came out for most of the day and we got above freezing.  Still about 15 degrees below where we usually are so I imagine this is not going to a nice winter. 
Hopefully the tubes keep surprising you, and it looks like it won't be an extended burn in like the El32's.  Have been using the El12 N with the cv1052 and this is a real nice combo.  Have been experimenting with different dac's to see where they pair the best. Have the Cambridge CXN for a network streamer, it has Dual Wolfson WM8740 24-bit DACs, and sounds great, also using the Schiit Multi-bit dac, and the PS Audio Dac.  And surprise, they all sound different.  Now have to decide which I like best.  I will keep the network streamer, and use one of the other dacs with it on the digital out to bypass the Cambridge dac and sell the other one.  Surprising just how different they are.


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## DecentLevi

Hey H1, me and another admirer are curious about the progress of your contact with Ms. X on the el38 adapter. Let us know... and in case any issues I can put you in touch with a quality (but probably pricier) European contact for adapters. Thanks


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## hypnos1 (Nov 21, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey H1, me and another admirer are curious about the progress of your contact with Ms. X on the el38 adapter. Let us know... and in case any issues I can put you in touch with a quality (but probably pricier) European contact for adapters. Thanks



Hi DL...no update yet from Mrs X re. the EL38 adapter I'm afraid....just the first unfathomable reply saying "direct to EL32 to EL34 adapter(??!!)...know the EL38 wires...thanks!". So it might not harm to see how much that European contact might charge for such an animal. As far as I'm concerned, if one can get these tubes at a _reasonable_ price, they fully deserve something special as adapter...but whether many folks would be prepared to pay much more is open to question! However, the best situation of course would be if there's a _choice_ lol!! ...

And on the subject of this tube...I simply can't help myself, but have to report that with more hours on the second pair, things are getting even crazier still - much to my astonishment, I have suddenly become a bass addict!! . All this time I've been quite happy with whatever my different tubes have provided in this department...especially the Mullard ECC31 (ECC32/CV181 equivalent). But with *4*x EL38s particularly (2 drivers, 2 powers), I now see that Euforia (in my system, at least) is capable of delivering bass way beyond what is 'normal' ( and _much_ superior to what the F-A brothers ever experienced at the CanJam London last year...including with the assistance of the Focal Utopias).

In fact, I never knew that headphones were able to reproduce such deep, solid and impactful bass, full stop! My T1s now have my body reverberating in a way I've never experienced before (apart from good speakers, of course), and without the slightest hint of 'bloom' or boom. But not only this, its effect on rasping trombone and trumpet in classical pieces has taken me aback big time after listening to the excellent remastered (96kHz 24bit) version of Sir Adrian Boult and the LPO's performance of Holst's 'Planets Suite'. Similarly, the deeper horns and double basses are truly remarkable...long, sustained lower register underpinning notes have never before been so noticeable, or seductive.

And as for dynamics handling...the transitions from piano to forte in this music masterpiece - especially sudden ones - had me literally almost jumping out of my chair, and also wondering how on Earth such a roaring lion could then instantly, and seemlessly,  revert to heart-melting tenderness...witnessed by the achingly delicate chimes and triangle which follow massive crescendos in many of the movements in 'Planets'.

I could say more, but I think by now most folks will realise that it's as if I'm describing a totally different amp...indeed, with these EL38s in situ, the normally held belief that different tubes will normally only ever bring marginal improvements - and usually just _changes_ in fact, once at a certain level - is completely shattered IMHO. As an example, these tubes are so superior (in *all* aspects) to my rare mesh-plated EL11 drivers (plus wonderful EL32s) and top flight powers that it's even _beyond_ a joke... and this is no exaggeration. Never before in my 5 years here on head-fi have I been so utterly astonished by the effect of a different tube...especially here in my Euforia. I can only hope that others have a similar experience to mine...but as usual in this hobby, nothing can be taken for granted!

I pray that adapters will soon be available for others to have the chance of trying out these tubes for themselves...I'm sorry indeed that I myself have only been able to help out connieflyer with adapted tubes...but at least we should soon (hopefully!) be getting his own views on these incredible glass wonders! ...can 't wait......


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, I give up! I have been around tubes for longer than I care to remember.  Things are different, somehow with the El38's installed as powers, this amp is no longer the same amp as I started with. With the CV 1052's as drivers this amp seems to have morphed into a new, higher caliber amplifier than the one that I originally purchased.  I know, I know you say I am hearing things in the same musical tracks that I never heard before.  Yep, that is it in a nutshell. More music more bass line, more frequencies,  more counter lines to the melody that previously, was present, but not presented in such a way as to wonder how I missed it before. The tubes came in today, and I was just going to give a cursory listen, to see that they worked and if I could hear any thing different. Well, an hour and a half later it was becoming one of those "I must try this song, then, oh yes this one too" so yes this is by far a better sounding amplifier than I had previously heard before, and CJ has told me that with a quad it is even better. AS he said above, usually tubes don't make all that much difference. Better yes, but to this extent, I have never experienced this kind of improvement. Are they worth the hunt, absolutely. Are they game changers? There are at least two of us that have experienced these, and 100%  of those folks say they are.  Did not think I would be changing out tubes again, thought I was going to wait for the new FA amp, as that seemed to me to be the direction I would go in. Quite frankly, I can not imagine the new amp sounding as good as what I am hearing, and with what CJ is saying, with a quad I will be even more impressed I don't think I am in any hurry for something different now.  Now just have to wait for the final pair to see what that will bring.  Again, thank you CJ for all of your inspiration and imagination with the initial design to FA for the improvement to the Elise that brought the Euforia and for not stopping with the tube combos until we reached this stage. What a wonderful gift to our pastime. I am going to email Mrs X also, to see if there will be adapters produced.  I thing the more people that ask may help to prod them into  a new adapter.


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## connieflyer

Just sent off a contact report on Ebay to mrs x asking about the possible manufacturing of adapters. If others ask it will probably help.   I wonder how big a difference the El 38's would make in the Elise? Any thoughts on that CJ?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just sent off a contact report on Ebay to mrs x asking about the possible manufacturing of adapters. If others ask it will probably help.   I wonder how big a difference the El 38's would make in the Elise? Any thoughts on that CJ?



Hi cf...am so glad that your tubes arrived safe and sound. And even more glad that you appear to like them as much as I do lol! . Don't forget they'll get even _better_ with some more hours on them....(I suspect that won't be _too_ much of a chore! ). And yes, this is truly a different amp now, with these EL38s in situ...I can only imagine what your thoughts will be with _*four*_ in place...

As far as I'm concerned, I reckon this setup will certainly stand up well against _any_ other amp anywhere near the price, and should now hold its own fairly well even against the upcoming new flagship...hp soundwise, at least. But, of course, the latter will be far more versatile and drive speakers as well...not to mention the optional output for electrostatic headphones! This is going to prove a very interesting comparo indeed lol...

Anyway cf, enjoy the rest of your day putting these new tubes through their paces...further burn-in will never have been so enjoyable, of that I'm sure!...BFN...

ps. I personally would imagine that these tubes could well take Elise to_ at least_ 'standard' Euforia level...even taking into account different caps, wiring, resistor circuit etc. But only personal trial can really tell, of course...

pps. Well done on contacting Mrs X...further interest  can only help speed things along...fingers crossed...(time for zzzzzzzz, so BFN once again). CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 22, 2018)

Hi @DecentLevi and all who may want to transform their amp lol! .

It looks like @connieflyer 's nudge did the trick (well done cf!)..._*the EL38 to 6sn7 adapter is now listed on ebay.com!*_...And at $10.90, plus $5 shipping, I just don't know how they do it!!
But remember we don't yet know if a small ferrite choke(s) is (are) needed on the anode wire to cure any possible hum...as with the EL12 Spezial.

So, guys, keep your eyes peeled for any EL38s (CV450) that come up on ebay at a _reasonable_ price...not some of those silly $ prices out there! . A direct look at ebay.co.uk (*under 'EL38 *_*valve'*)_ might well be more fruitful lol.....GOOD HUNTING!...CJ

ps. For anyone interested I do now have a few mint condition tubes (obviously unused, like my first ones) heading my way...PM me if you like...


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## ZRW0

Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...er-adapter-For-Elise-Euforia-amp/202510957233


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## connieflyer

Quite a good price, $10.90. She got back to me quite fast, perhaps because I had purchased from her before, but more likely because I am so cute!  So I did thank her for the quick service and I ordered on for my spare tube and to check the quality.  Good work guys.  Looks like that clears one more hurdle for tube bliss. Now others may try this great tube.


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## connieflyer

Like CJ says, check under ebay UK as there were some on US site, but most were over priced.  I had bid on these, but they are untested, but looked pretty good, for the price for the threesome.        https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VA...m=283268643395&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...er-adapter-For-Elise-Euforia-amp/202510957233



Thanks for the link ZRW0...forgot to include it in my last post, silly me!

And have you had any luck with your unfortunate EL32 at all?


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Quite a good price, $10.90. She got back to me quite fast, perhaps because I had purchased from her before, but more likely because I am so cute!  So I did thank her for the quick service and I ordered on for my spare tube and to check the quality.  Good work guys.  Looks like that clears one more hurdle for tube bliss. Now others may try this great tube.



Well done cf for starting off demand for these adapters and doing the honours for checking them out...plus seeing whether or not they might need the ferrite choke(s).

Once again, I can't recommend this EL38 highly enough...covers (nay, _masters_)  more bases (areas) than any other tube I have ever known, and all _*without the need for multiple tubes!*_... But you now know this for yourself of course, cf lol! ...


----------



## connieflyer

CJ, I can not thank you enough, for converting these tubes and for finding  I had been listening to so many favorite vocalists and instrumental pieces yesterday and enjoying them to no end.  So this morning, for the last hour and a half, I decided I would try something else. I have a good recording of Holst' Jupiter, one of my favorites, so put that on and was blown away. With the Senn 800 phones, it is a massive wall of sound. It is everywhere, and all of a sudden out of nowhere you hear this tinkling of the triangle, and your head whips around, and it is gone, then later back again, the massed strings build up to a boil and fairly explode with enthusiasium, so put on some more high def recordings from the Bruckner Orchester Linz recordings, Barber Tchaikovsky, Kachaturian, Puccini, Glinka, Offenbach, Saint-Saens, Dukas,Strauss and Berlioz what a riot of sound, these phones and these tubes were made for each other.  The Euforia has never made such beautiful music before.  I am stunned.  And to think that CJ says with a quad it will be even better, I just cannot fathom such a thing!  Well I am hoping that the adapters will not need the ferrite bead but have plenty if it is so.  And a small price to pay for such gorgeous sound.


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for the link ZRW0...forgot to include it in my last post, silly me!
> 
> And have you had any luck with your unfortunate EL32 at all?


They're still alive... for now.


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## Scutey

Hi H1.

Congratulations on finding yet another great tube, I think you could be the Indiana Jones of tube rolling! lol. Since you first posted about the EL38 I've been fascinated and enthralled by your findings, so much so I couldn't contain myself any longer and had to buy a pair, a rather lovely pair of pristine, NOS EL38 labelled, brown base versions, plus 4 adapters, so hopefully, I can experience some of the audio ecstasy you've been experiencing, It'll also be interesting to hear how they compare in my Elise against the Euforia.


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## connieflyer

From what I am hearing you won't be disappointed. But if you are, I am sure you would not any trouble selling them off. Good luck  Great looking tubes you have there


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## Scutey

Thanks cf. Going on your own initial findings and also CJ's I don't think I'll be disappointed!, however if in the unfortunate/unlikely event that I am I'll offer them on here first .


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## connieflyer

That's a great idea. But I don't think you will be disappointed.  I had been thinking about selling my Schiit Gumby, but after listening to these tubes, these Senn 800 phones have never performed like this before.  I am very impressed,  normally I would be champing at the bit to receive the other two El 38's, but this combo sounds so good, I don't feel I am missing anything, I have gained so much with these.  But if it is like CJ says (  and I have NO reason to doubt him) it will be incredible. Using HIDef files right now, and finally they sound like they are worth the extra money.


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## Scutey

That's good to hear cf, somehow I don't think I'm going to be disappointed either!, I have to say when I'm listening to x4 CV1052 it's hard to contemplate how anything could sound better, however I'm very willing to be proved wrong!.


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## connieflyer

You know that's exactly the same way I felt after listening to a quad of 1052, however after replacing in the power position to El 38 there is just no comparison. Just amazing., enjoy the ride!


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## Scutey

Thanks cf!, I'm sure I will!.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 23, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Hi H1.
> 
> Congratulations on finding yet another great tube, I think you could be the Indiana Jones of tube rolling! lol. Since you first posted about the EL38 I've been fascinated and enthralled by your findings, so much so I couldn't contain myself any longer and had to buy a pair, a rather lovely pair of pristine, NOS EL38 labelled, brown base versions, plus 4 adapters, so hopefully, I can experience some of the audio ecstasy you've been experiencing, It'll also be interesting to hear how they compare in my Elise against the Euforia.



Hi Scutey...just a quickie for now .

What can I say, but....(will try again!!!)....WELL DONE!!! Those do also look beautiful tubes...and I can assure you - on my life lol!! - you will not believe the difference...as with @connieflyer . Like me, he too didn't think anything could topple the CV1052...but these 38s are streets ahead IMHO.
So get burning in those gorgeous creatures...and the icing on the cake is that they sound great even from the start, and just keep getting even better - but without having to wait an eternity, like the EL32!! .
Can't wait for your own findings, and if you're tempted to go the whole hog and experience what FOUR can do, let me know...I have some mint condition ones arriving very soon...(unless you want to wait and see what cf makes of this foursome!)....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again @Scutey ...my first post to you went haywire, so hope you can now see the FULL version lol!


----------



## OctavianH

Looking forward for impressions about EL38 vs EL32 on Elise. Especially with T1 if possible.


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning CJ, when you started this thread looking back at how we started, it's almost unbelievable the improvements that we have seen over the many months and how much the EU phoria has risen to the challenge each and every time. You have certainly done one or two things correctly old man! But these last two is the e l 38 are probably your best find ever. I still cannot quite comprehend the difference that these are made. I know I keep ex pounding on how much better these are, but you just dive into the music and it just keeps getting better and better and you just start hearing things on recordings that you were extremely familiar with and yet you'll hear more instruments in places that they weren't there before. Well they were there they just weren't presented! So another Well Done sir. And if you have extra tubes and are willing to share you will have to become the citizen of the year! Take care guys I have to die back under the phones before I have more


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Scutey...just a quickie for now .
> 
> What can I say, but....(will try again!!!)....WELL DONE!!! Those do also look beautiful tubes...and I can assure you - on my life lol!! - you will not believe the difference...as with @connieflyer . Like me, he too didn't think anything could topple the CV1052...but these 38s are streets ahead IMHO.
> So get burning in those gorgeous creatures...and the icing on the cake is that they sound great even from the start, and just keep getting even better - but without having to wait an eternity, like the EL32!! .
> Can't wait for your own findings, and if you're tempted to go the whole hog and experience what FOUR can do, let me know...I have some mint condition ones arriving very soon...(unless you want to wait and see what cf makes of this foursome!)....CHEERS!...CJ


Cheers CJ,

Yes really looking forward to giving these beauties a serious go, just got to wait for the adapters to arrive, received the message today that they're on their way, all I've got to do now is wait, arghh! , as for the them being better than the CV's, absolutely no need to bet on your life, I'm perfectly happy to believe you!, you were absolutely spot on with the CV's, still enjoying them as I speak, rocking out to some Quo, good also to hear you have some more incoming, I have 4 adapters on order so I may well hold your generous offer!, so for the time being I shall, read yours and connieflyer's posts and try not to get too impatient!.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Looking forward for impressions about EL38 vs EL32 on Elise. Especially with T1 if possible.


Hi Octavian,

Sold the T1.2, however with the A pads on my DT 1990, they give a very similar sound to the T1.2, so hopefully I should be able to give you a fairly accurate description of what you might hear.


----------



## connieflyer

Scutey, how did you like the T1 v2? I had a T1 v1 but one of the drivers went bad in the first few weeks and the seller on Amazon would not replace, did get a refund though.I really liked the phones, but none were available at the time and got the Senn 800 instead. Just wondered how you found the v2.  I have seen these still for sale, and have considered getting one, but did not know anyone that had them to get an idea of how they were.  Good luck when your adapters come in, you are in for a real treat.  As good as the Cv's are the El38's are a cut above.


----------



## Scutey

Hi c.f.,

The T1.2 is a very nice set of cans, they have the Beyer house sound, but somewhat toned down compared to other Beyers,by that I mean the highs are typically sparkly but I would say smoothed out, the bass is slightly elevated as well, detail retrieval and imaging are first rate, if you liked the T1 then you should like the T1.2, I would say it leans (slightly) toward a more fun sound.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Scutey, how did you like the T1 v2? I had a T1 v1 but one of the drivers went bad in the first few weeks and the seller on Amazon would not replace, did get a refund though.I really liked the phones, but none were available at the time and got the Senn 800 instead. Just wondered how you found the v2.  I have seen these still for sale, and have considered getting one, but did not know anyone that had them to get an idea of how they were.  Good luck when your adapters come in, you are in for a real treat.  As good as the Cv's are the El38's are a cut above.



Hi CF,
I have a T1 Gen 1. While trying out a bad tube I blew one driver. Contacted Beyerdynamic Customer Service in Massachusetts. A new set of drivers was $250, but they offered me a used, matched driver for $10(!) + labor & shipping.
With shipping both ways and labor, the total came to $60, and the headphones sound just fine.
Very quick turn around time and really excellent customer service!


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## hypnos1 (Nov 23, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Cheers CJ,
> 
> Yes really looking forward to giving these beauties a serious go, just got to wait for the adapters to arrive, received the message today that they're on their way, all I've got to do now is wait, arghh! , as for the them being better than the CV's, absolutely no need to bet on your life, I'm perfectly happy to believe you!, you were absolutely spot on with the CV's, still enjoying them as I speak, rocking out to some Quo, good also to hear you have some more incoming, I have 4 adapters on order so I may well hold your generous offer!, so for the time being I shall, read yours and connieflyer's posts and try not to get too impatient!.



Well, Scutey mon ami, you are obviously trailblazer material, and having no doubt had to spend a fair bit on those lovely tubes of yours (not to mention _four_ adapters already!), I thought you might be interested in my offer to loan you a pair of adapted tubes (valves!) once I've completed them....my previously mentioned ones having arrived today . As you also live here in the UK, shipping shouldn't be too expensive, or risky lol!! Hopefully I could get them to you before your adapters arrive even, which would be great for initial impressions, and then be in situ ready for experimenting with the mighty _foursome!!..._(possibly a tad too dynamic for bass-heavy systems/cans...but would surely give bass-heads the fix of their lives lol! )...Edit...As Elise has slightly less bass presence than Euforia, I'm even more convinced the final results will be spectacular!).

This would also be especially interesting/useful re. discovering just what they can do for Elise, as opposed to Euforia. Assuming they suit Elise just as well (and can't really see why they wouldn't), I am in fact pretty confident that they will take Elise _beyond _'standard' Euforia's sound...but you yourself will obviously (hopefully!) at least be able to assess the _degree_ of difference over your best performance from Elise to date...

ps. Said parcel today had my eyes popping right out...these 'used', 'mint condition' tubes are *all NOS*, most with original boxes and/or wrapping. They've obviously never been used at all, not even for testing! (But they've nearly all gone already, alas...).


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## connieflyer

Thanks for the info Mordy, I will keep looking for the T1's, I always liked there sound.  That price from repair is very good indeed, surprising really. Did not think you could get anything done for anywhere near that price,  nice find.


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## Johnnysound (Nov 24, 2018)

Still waiting for the ship(s) to arrive....adaptors from China (EL38/EL34) and tubes from the UK.  Both already in the U.S...a few days more.  And adaptors for Euforia are now available !  Mrs Xuling is really fast... I have a drawer full of adaptors, well, maybe four more are unavoidable in the near future.

For the time being, the prospect of the EL38s as “world class” power tubes in my power amp is really exciting.  I was worried about biasing because the EL38, while very similar electrically to both the EL34 and the KT77 does have very unusual bias specs, plus much lower optimal points than the other two.  As @hypnos1 verified, the Euforia takes care of this thanks to its truly amazing autobias, but in a power amp it is critical to “dial in” the proper bias for max output, SQ, and some “classic” amps can’t take the EL38 without internal mods !!  Add to this that there is no info anywhere about what exactly those  bias points are...thankfully, my Jolida is a current model, and Michael Allen (the designer) confirmed me that the EL38s will work, since the amp “easybias” will detect their optimal settings, much like the Euforia does...now I can sleep again.

I can’t wait to test the Euforia (with 4 EL32/CV1052) driving the amp with 4 EL38s...and to contribute to @hypnos1 enjoyment and national pride, I should add that this will be a genuinely  British affair, since my favorite drivers in the amp are 2 x Brimar CV4004s (box plates) plus 2 x Brimar 13D9s (6060), a whole armada of a dozen British tubes...


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## connieflyer

Well Johnny sound, looks like you are all set. Hopefully the adapters come in from mrs. X will work fine. I have every confidence they will I have had several from her and they all worked very well.


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Johnnysound ...you certainly do have a lovely collection of (British!) tubes there lol . But I've a feeling you're going to be torn between using your EL38s either in your power amp, or in Euforia...'cos you're just gonna _have_ to get some _more_ adapters so you can marvel at what these tubes do for headphone listening!! ...(perhaps 2 for each? ).

And as (yet) another teaser, I'm glad to say that now I've become totally, hopelessly addicted to the bass - and everything else! - from four EL38s, I'm frantically swapping around tubes as I manage to adapt my 'spares' in the feverish hope that perhaps one has just enough lower transconductance as a driver to restore my very slight channel imbalance! Mind you, the single EL32 in the mix does the job marvellously, without sacrificing much at all lol...(but why not have one's cake _and_ eat it, if at all possible IMO?!!).

And just another pointer for folks...at first the highly dynamic performance of these tubes can sometimes push vocals a bit further back (for me anyway, as I love a closer, more intimate voice placement), but fortunately, with further burn-in, they have returned to their rightful place..._phew!! _And now, with even _more_ detail from their larynxes...in short, _stunning_ .


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## Johnnysound (Nov 25, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Johnnysound ...you certainly do have a lovely collection of (British!) tubes there lol . But I've a feeling you're going to be torn between using your EL38s either in your power amp, or in Euforia...'cos you're just gonna _have_ to get some _more_ adapters so you can marvel at what these tubes do for headphone listening!! ...(perhaps 2 for each? ).
> 
> And as (yet) another teaser, I'm glad to say that now I've become totally, hopelessly addicted to the bass - and everything else! - from four EL38s, I'm frantically swapping around tubes as I manage to adapt my 'spares' in the feverish hope that perhaps one has just enough lower transconductance as a driver to restore my very slight channel imbalance! Mind you, the single EL32 in the mix does the job marvellously, without sacrificing much at all lol...(but why not have one's cake _and_ eat it, if at all possible IMO?!!).
> 
> And just another pointer for folks...at first the highly dynamic performance of these tubes can sometimes push vocals a bit further back (for me anyway, as I love a closer, more intimate voice placement), but fortunately, with further burn-in, they have returned to their rightful place..._phew!! _And now, with even _more_ detail from their larynxes...in short, _stunning_ .



Hi H1, the  4 NOS Mullard EL38 are coming..and you know that sooner or later I just have to test the quartet in the Euforia !!  But these are power pentodes, of very high quality, compatible with my power amp... power tubes define the whole sound of a power amp, and so far the EL34s, but specially the KT77s (Genalex reissues) sound vastly superior in my amp to anything else.

The EL38s are of the same family... but not reissues, truly originals, and this is a substantial  difference.  As good as a few  “reissues” can be(specially with power tubes) they really can’t compare with the originals...high expectations, indeed


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## hypnos1 (Nov 25, 2018)

Well, @connieflyer ...I have to apologise for the slight delay in getting that other pair of EL38s off to you - *I just can't stop listening to them!* . However, as I don't yet have enough of my own to make up the foursome, my excuse is that I'm just making sure they're fine...and burning them in for you some more lol!! . Which has, actually, added to the delay somewhat. After thinking these beauties would quickly reach optimum - given how good they sound straight from new - I'm finding they're *still *getting better and better*...*and really can't get my head around it!! Even more so as they're excelling both as power _*and*_ driver...with Euforia obviously loving giving them a home - total, deathly silent background (as with the EL32), and not the slightest hint of any discomfort _*whatsoever*_. In fact, she is purring along, while the 38s _*roar *_(when called for!)... Had the amp running for 11 hrs last night...and still only _slightly_ warm - what more can one ask lol?

Anyway, mon ami, I've been selfish long enough, so I'll get them shipped to you tomorrow...mustn't tease (torture?!) you any longer (especially as @Scutey might just possibly beat you to the foursome magic, if I can get my next pair done in time for him to test in Elise, and depending which ship from China sails fastest!! )....

So I'd better get to it...once I've had some breakfast, that is......CHEERS!...CJ


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## Scutey

Cheers CJ, looks like you've got a busy few days ahead! .


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## connieflyer

First off, CJ, I would never interrupt someone at breakfast! And you have nothing to apologize for, you are helping to spread the goodness, that I am hearing from the pair of EL38's you converted for me already. Listening to the pair is exceptional.  Finally the Hi Def files make sense.  They are in fact so good.  The bass is like you say, much more prevalent on my Senn 800 than ever before.  I truly believe that these tubes have allowed the Euforia to shine like it was supposed to. The more I listen, the less inclined I am to consider  FA's new amp. As much as I like the Euforia, I always felt, I was missing something.  Could not quite put my finger on it. So with the advent of the new amp and Lukasz saying it was quite a bit better than Euforia, I was on board thing that this might be the answer.  Did not need it for a speaker amp, but like phones so much, I was considering it anyways, depending on your review of it of course. But now, the El 38's have opened doors to musical enjoyment  more so than ever in the past. No longer feel "something" is missing.  However, when the next pair get here, I may discover that there was something else! Such a quandry!  Thanks H


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## hypnos1 (Nov 30, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> First off, CJ, I would never interrupt someone at breakfast! And you have nothing to apologize for, you are helping to spread the goodness, that I am hearing from the pair of EL38's you converted for me already. Listening to the pair is exceptional.  Finally the Hi Def files make sense.  They are in fact so good.  The bass is like you say, much more prevalent on my Senn 800 than ever before.  I truly believe that these tubes have allowed the Euforia to shine like it was supposed to. The more I listen, the less inclined I am to consider  FA's new amp. As much as I like the Euforia, I always felt, I was missing something.  Could not quite put my finger on it. So with the advent of the new amp and Lukasz saying it was quite a bit better than Euforia, I was on board thing that this might be the answer.  Did not need it for a speaker amp, but like phones so much, I was considering it anyways, depending on your review of it of course. But now, the El 38's have opened doors to musical enjoyment  more so than ever in the past. No longer feel "something" is missing.  However, when the next pair get here, I may discover that there was something else! Such a quandry!  Thanks H



My pleasure, cf.

And yes, I never dreamt anything could surpass the EL32/38 combo...that the 'something missing' feeling was totally redundant...*wrong!* Although the 2x 38s as powers bring immediately startling results, the foursome take a bit longer to really show their credentials. But once one begins to notice the more subtle 'extras', there's no going back - to put it mildly! 

And I'm now going to make the sort of *bold* statement I've never before _quite_ made in my 5 years here in head-fi...and the OTT sort I usually try to discourage others from making, in fact lol.

Despite this latest foursome no doubt being helped a good deal by the rest of my gear and endless 'tinkering', the performance of these tubes - in Euforia at least - eclipses IMO not only *all* drivers and powers that F-A's amp can possibly accommodate but also, from close study of others' findings using the same types of tube, all other amps not using tubes that belong in the stratosphere.

Why such a bold statement?...because normally (in good systems) once the 'also rans' are out of the equation, different members of the same tube family tend to simply give different _flavours_ of the same kind of signature..._drastic_ improvements usually requiring _exceptional_ and _expensive_ upgrades in equipment. And usually, superior performance in one or more of a tube's areas comes at the expense of another. But this is _*not*_ the case here...emphatically so lol!

The mastery of the EL38 in Euforia is evident in *all aspects *of performance...at the expense of _*none*_. This IMHO is a very rare achievement indeed, and one normally associated only with _extremely_ expensive gear.

Anyway, this is, of course, my own personal opinion...but one I stand by against any and all possible criticism. And one that can only really be upheld - or refuted - by the personal experiences of others who are fortunate enough to be able to put these tubes to the test...... CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Again, I have to agree with you. When ever I rolled tubes, you usually got a bump in performance of one kind or another.  It was not like this when I added the two El38s to the El32's. It was very obvious that things had just gone from really good, to extremely excellent. There was no waiting to see what the differences were. Did not have to try to discern if things were a little clearer or bass a little bit firmer.  All aspects of this combo came in loud and clear from the first notes. Problem is, I had to go back through thirty or forty songs, just to enjoy them!  There was just more of everything.  I am not talking warmer or cooler but clearer, notes that had not been immediatly appartent before, were now present, the bass line was richer and more of it.  I use the Sennheiser 800, and while the bass is always tight and clear there just did not seem to be enough of it. Not true anymore, bass is present and firm. Vocalists now reside with me, not just up in the phones somewhere, and treble is plentiful while remaining clear, concise and the sound stage is just incredible.  I hope that the El38's have the effect that CJ has spoken of,  that might put me in sensory overload!  Hope so!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Again, I have to agree with you. When ever I rolled tubes, you usually got a bump in performance of one kind or another.  It was not like this when I added the two El38s to the El32's. It was very obvious that things had just gone from really good, to extremely excellent. There was no waiting to see what the differences were. Did not have to try to discern if things were a little clearer or bass a little bit firmer.  All aspects of this combo came in loud and clear from the first notes. Problem is, I had to go back through thirty or forty songs, just to enjoy them!  There was just more of everything.  I am not talking warmer or cooler but clearer, notes that had not been immediatly appartent before, were now present, the bass line was richer and more of it.  I use the Sennheiser 800, and while the bass is always tight and clear there just did not seem to be enough of it. Not true anymore, bass is present and firm. Vocalists now reside with me, not just up in the phones somewhere, and treble is plentiful while remaining clear, concise and the sound stage is just incredible.  I hope that the El38's have the effect that CJ has spoken of,  that might put me in sensory overload!  Hope so!



Hi cf.

Am really glad that you have found the exact same improvements from these EL38s...and I'm confident that anyone else giving these an audition would come to precisely the same conclusion - the difference is _massive_ and, as you say, not something you have to go searching for...or be prepared to forego some other area as a compromise. With these amazing tubes there is _*no*_ compromise whatsoever...hence my previous, unashamedly bold statement. And which is hinted at by the current prices(!!) of it's identically constructed (apart from top anode connection) Mullard EL37. Actually, one could even possibly surmise that as with the EL12 Spezial, the tube with said top anode cap could very well perform _better_ than the enclosed version lol! .

Whatever, I have never before been so enthralled by a new tube, or so quickly. And once some more hours still are put on them, the end result is even more unbelievable...especially with the _foursome!!_  So get ready for yet more revelations, courtesy of USPS...soon I hope .


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## ZRW0

Hello,

I was glad to see this morning that Santa (actually "Hong Kong Santa") brought me a gift quite early this year :

 
Quad matched CV450 from Mullard !

Now, waiting for the corresponding adapters to arrive (and I'm afraid they will take much more time to come), I'm trying new things on my side (or at least things which are new to me): quad EL12Spez...
 
Will keep you posted about this trial.

Erwan.


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was glad to see this morning that Santa (actually "Hong Kong Santa") brought me a gift quite early this year :
> 
> ...



WOW Erwan...well done!...a very special Christmas present indeed. Those military CV450s have just got to be the creme de la creme lol! (but the black base EL38s - of the same construction - sound really awesome too!! ).

So now, you too will have an amp that not only _looks_ very smart, but also _sounds_ like one _much_ more expensive ...as in (apart from adapters)  :

 

ps. Although I myself found the CV450s (EL38) to way outperform even the EL12 Spezial, it will be very interesting to see what you yourself make of the comparison lol ...


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## ZRW0

Well, the quad EL12Spez trial was short-lived: one of the two tubes I used as a driver, and that was "coughing" at heat-up before, just died. 
Definitely, from my own experience, my trials with the EL12Spez on the Euforia have been the most disappointing... (compared to all the other tubes I've tried).

Luckily, my CV1052s as driver are still working, and pair great with the remaining pair of EL12Spez as power.
Will stick with this combo for a few days, until either the EL38 adapters arrive, or I'm fed up again with the CV1052 slight "Lack of Meat"...


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## Scutey (Nov 30, 2018)

Hi @ZRW0, that's a very nice set of tubes you have there!, I have some adapters on the way from mrsX, hopefully should arrive in the next3/4 days, then I can do 4X CV/38.

CJ, just warming up those CV450's right now, they're looking good, just a few more minutes warm up and they're good to go, also, CJ they are dead silent! , happy days!.


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Well, the quad EL12Spez trial was short-lived: one of the two tubes I used as a driver, and that was "coughing" at heat-up before, just died.
> Definitely, from my own experience, my trials with the EL12Spez on the Euforia have been the most disappointing... (compared to all the other tubes I've tried).
> 
> Luckily, my CV1052s as driver are still working, and pair great with the remaining pair of EL12Spez as power.
> Will stick with this combo for a few days, until either the EL38 adapters arrive, or I'm fed up again with the CV1052 slight "Lack of Meat"...



Hi ZRW0...that's a real shame about your EL12 Spezial. Methinks you have a mischievous gremlin lurking somewhere - especially with your EL32 hiccough also...I have only ever found the Spezials to be some of the most trouble-free tubes I've ever used!! 

However, not to worry _too_ much, 'cos as I mentioned previously, the EL38 is *streets *ahead anyway. Hope that brings a certain consolation for you lol


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi @ZRW0, that's a very nice set of tubes you have there!, I have some adapters on the way from mrsX, hopefully should arrive in the next3/4 days, then I can do 4X CV/38.
> 
> CJ, just warming up those CV450's right now, they're looking good, just a few more minutes warm up and they're good to go, also, CJ they are dead silent! , happy days!.



That's great news Scutey...sometimes the Royal Mail can actually be rather good!! 

Glad also that you're not getting any hum from the exposed anode wire. As with the EL12 Spezial, I'm never troubled by that nasty gremlin...and I don't even bother using any kind of shield over the wire - just the copper UP-OCC's own teflon coating and some teflon tubing for the pure silver (for my own tubes, I don't even bother to slide the coated UP-OCC silver and copper wires inside another bit of teflon tubing...and still no hint of hum!). I just hope that Mrs X's adapters might also be free of hum, unlike those for the Spezial...but if they do suffer from it, the ferrite choke(s) should do the trick nicely .

So have a great weekend hearing all your favourite tracks as if for the first time...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 30, 2018)

Now then folks...for those brave (and wise!) enough to have dived into the EL38 (CV450) already, I just need to add a little something more to what I have already described re. this tube.

Although, as I mentioned previously, it doesn't need anywhere near as long a burn-in as the EL32 before sounding really good, it does in fact continue to improve even after quite a long time.

With over 100 hrs now on my ones as powers, and 50+ on those as drivers, they are still surprising me much more than I anticipated. Bass notes thud (but not bloatedly) even more now, which is deepening my addiction by the day! Mids details are appearing in familiar tracks that I never knew existed before, and treble details likewise. In addition to _details_, the range of _tones_ within different instruments is also greater than I have ever known in music I've heard literally hundreds of times before. And as for soundstage...all I can say is that not only is it the most 'holographic' 3D imaginable, but is also as if there is in fact a _fourth_ dimension - almost indescribable. I suspect that _no_ other T1 owners especially have ever heard a sound like this...and this could possibly also apply to  @connieflyer 's HD800s lol?!  ...

These qualities were highlighted to me _par excellence_ this afternoon while listening to one of my favourite test (and listening) albums - 'Elements', The Very Best of Mike Oldfield (he of 'Tubular Bells' etc. fame). I have always enjoyed the usual _gradual_ improvements in sound from different tubes over time, but I wasn't prepared for _this_ degree of improvement. I truly believe, as I mentioned before, that one would need to be upgrading to a much more expensive setup to achieve something anywhere near this level of sound reproduction...either in tube amps, or SS especially.
And as this album is ideal for putting these tubes through their paces, I shall be uploading it to Dropbox, so if anyone can use these files (WAV), just PM me with an email address to which I can send the link...(I also have in there a fabulous remastered version of Holst's 'Planets', with Sir Adrian Boult and the LPO...an excellent quality recording, in spite of being 'vintage' originally!).

So my heartiest wishes to those still awaiting their own magical glass tubes, and/or adapters!...CJ

ps. Oh, I forgot to mention...never before have I _felt _mids and treble notes like this. That they can present so in the presence of such bass is truly astounding IMHO...and, I suspect, very _rare_ lol...


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## connieflyer

Boy it is starting to sound like a broken record with us! You and I have the same conclusions with these tubes.  I am still on the cv1052's plus a pair of El38's, and as you say, the bass is quite enhanced. With the Sennheiser 800, the bass while there is not at all their strong suit, but now, the bass really comes alive.  I am continually impressed with what the Euforia has become. It is defineatly a cut above the normal Euforia.  I wish more of you would try these El38's as you are missing out on a real treat.  So much so, that I am selling off my El32's and Cv1052's, as  I have no desire to go back after hearing these. Will also let the adapters go. My other pair of El38's are now through Chicago, and heading here, so should only be another day or so.  Getting excited to hear the quad.


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## Scutey (Nov 30, 2018)

Just a brief one for now re 2x CV450 + 2x CV1052,  =  =


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## Johnnysound (Dec 2, 2018)

How many hours on them, H1, CF ?   If they sound so good with just a few hours I would expect a substantial improvement after some 50-60 hours  or so, as other EL tubes with “normal” current draw (as opposed to the EL32s).  In fact, most “ELs” (in my experience) show a kind of “slow but steady ” burn-in characteristics,  and I suspect that these rugged EL38s (with that oversized oval cathodes) will no doubt require good hours to sound best....I mean, they surely will continue to improve beyond the 60 hour mark.  I  only hope that your cans will survive  THAT kind of bass (LOL)

Adaptors from Mrs Xu Ling are coming...for the Euforia


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> How many hours on them, H1, CF ?   If they sound so good with just a few hours I would expect a substantial improvement after some 50-60 hours  or so, as other EL tubes with “normal” current draw (as opposed to the EL32s).  In fact, most “ELs” (in my experience) show a kind of “slow but steady ” burn-in characteristics,  and I suspect that these rugged EL38s (with that oversized oval cathodes) will no doubt require good hours to sound best....I mean, they surely will continue to improve  even after passing the 60 hour mark.  I  only hope that your cans will survive  THAT kind of bass (LOL)
> 
> Adaptors from Mrs Xu Ling are coming...for the Euforia



Hi J...I do hope your adapters arrive soon, so you too can be enjoying this wonderful magic! 

And yes, as I mentioned last time, these EL38s (CV450) are indeed continuing to improve even more with further burn-in - and that's with 100+ hrs on one pair and over 50 on the other.

And yes again, my T1s are having to get used to handling bass like they've never known before...and are doing so admirably, may I say lol! 

But all I can say is that if these tubes get a lot better still, I really don't know if I can take much more of this excitement, mon ami...but I shall try to grin and bear it!! ...


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## connieflyer (Dec 1, 2018)

One nice thing about these e l 38 tubes, they sound so good you end up putting extra time on them! I thought I would give a listen last night about 10 p.m. and thought I'll put the phones on for an hour catch the news go to bed at about 12:30 this morning I figured forget the news let's just go to bed! These tubes are doing a fantastic job on the Sennheiser 800 phones. That bass just makes those phones sing! Well done CJ


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Just a brief one for now re 2x CV450 + 2x CV1052,  =  =



Er..ps, Scutey...Don't forget to let folks on the Elise thread know of your glee lol! ...but don't you dare stop posting here also..._please_ ...(if you can tear yourself away from the music, that is!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


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## ZRW0

On my side, today I tried again the EL12Spez that wasn't working yesterday (and it is still mute), but while gently unplugging it from its brand new adapter, I discovered this:
 
The anode cap has gone ! (it remained in the adapter plug, I had to pull it off with tweezers).

Plus, I don't know what is this "rusty material" soldering/passing-through the anode wire to the top needle of the tube glass, but it seems rather crumbly.

Anyway, any recommendation to try to fix this, if it is worth it, would be very welcome.
(Please remember I'm not a huge friend of soldering irons)  

Thanks,

Erwan.


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## DecentLevi

@ZRW0 I would recommend to trty H1 (CJ's) non connection method of twisting or otherwise securing the external wire directly to the top wire without the cap and then putting solder around the connection. Otherwise you may have to do my makeshift method which was to literally fill the cap a fair way full of lead solder, then hope the soler will still be liquefied for long enough to cure around the wire when you insert it back in and finally superglue the cap back on.

 For me personally I'll just have to leave it up to my imagination what the EL38's must sound like until i get more secure footing...


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## Scutey (Dec 1, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Er..ps, Scutey...Don't forget to let folks on the Elise thread know of your glee lol! ...but don't you dare stop posting here also..._please_ ...(if you can tear yourself away from the music, that is!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


Hi h1, my apologies for not posting sooner, unfortunately I have to go out this afternoon but I will definitely be posting here this evening, not had quite as much time with the CV450's as I would have liked so far, but this eve is entirely free, so they will be getting a good 5/6 hours, my initial finding are (slightly) different from yours and connieflyer's findings but I will explain later, but after a little trial and error, they've hit the jackpot, so to speak!.

ps, thanks to you h1 for your encouragement in posting on here, I have felt a little bit of a fraud! 

ttfn..


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## hypnos1 (Dec 1, 2018)

ZRW0 said:


> On my side, today I tried again the EL12Spez that wasn't working yesterday (and it is still mute), but while gently unplugging it from its brand new adapter, I discovered this:
> 
> The anode cap has gone ! (it remained in the adapter plug, I had to pull it off with tweezers).
> 
> ...



Hi Erwan.

Ah...this is precisely why I have advised a few times before that with these old top anode cap jobs one *must* superglue (or similar) these down lol! ...presumably you've missed my posts alas!

And the same goes for the* bases*...the old adhesive used in those days is not quite up to modern day glues! (but still do extremely well, considering the age of some of these tubes!!). Which is why I also recommend to *never* try pulling out an old tube by the glass...*always* by the base!

Anyway Erwan, not all is lost by any means. But first a word of warning...move that protruding wire *as little as possible*, as it will surely break off at the point it leaves the glass, given half a chance...then you are indeed bu**ered lol!!

Now then, it looks like there's still a fair bit of wire left, so you should be able to fit the cap back over it...*very carefully*. But first, make sure the hole is big enough for the wire to go through, and hopefully enough will protrude for you to be able to bend it over the cap, ready to solder back on...shouldn't be too difficult a soldering job (hopefully!). If there's not enough wire poking out the top, try removing any remaining solder in the top of the cap to enable it to do so, and/or depress the top to 'dish' it (will need a fair bit of force), thereby giving the wire more of a chance. Either that or try to reduce the height of the cap by shaving off some of its bottom.

When - and if - you manage to resolder the connection, you must obviously superglue (gorilla glue) the cap to the tube!!

Hopefully you can succeed in this repair job...GOOD LUCK!!...CJ

ps. That brown crumbly stuff is simply the old adhesive used...


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## hypnos1

Hi again @ZRW0 .

Thanks to @DecentLevi for his input, but unless practiced in this kind of work, I would *not* recommend trying to make direct wire to wire contact...as I mentioned, that darned piece of small protruding wire can snap off all too easily, then it's in the bin with it I'm afraid! And I personally can't see solder ever staying molten long enough to successfully work as DL mentioned ...


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, my apologies for not posting sooner, unfortunately I have to go out this afternoon but I will definitely be posting here this evening, not had quite as much time with the CV450's as I would have liked so far, but this eve is entirely free, so they will be getting a good 5/6 hours, my initial finding are (slightly) different from yours and connieflyer's findings but I will explain later, but after a little trial and error, they've hit the jackpot, so to speak!.
> 
> ps, thanks to you h1 for your encouragement in posting on here, I have felt a little bit of a fraud!
> 
> ttfn..



Hi Scutey...no fear of being a fraud...your experience with these EL38s in Elise, as opposed to Euforia, is of great interest to me...and others, I'm sure lol! I look forward to further info on any such differences...not to mention your 'trial and error' manoeuvres! ...

ps. Glad to hear your evening is free at least for the good stuff lol...


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## ZRW0

Thanks @DecentLevi .
I tried your makeshift (I was having the same in mind), by filling the cap with solder and then put the top of the tube back in before the solder solidifies...

Although it appears to have worked (the cap is now soldered to the top), the tube is still desperately dead.

 
It heats up, but doesn't emit a sound.

I give up. Again I DO hate soldering.

Anyone with a spare/extra Telefunken EL12Spez (single one or preferably a matched pair, preferably used) to be sold for a fair price, please PM me.

Thanks,

Erwan.


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## Scutey

Ok, at the fourth attempt (power tubes) this is the combo that finally sealed it for me, and finally made the CV450's really sing, the sound from these four tubes is exquisite.

A big thank you to you, h1, I wouldn't finally have the privilege of listening to these beauties so early else .

After just one day in the post I received h1's CV450 with h1 adapters, love the bases, they really suit the tubes, gives them a sort of steam punk look.
Excitedly I mounted the tubes, in the power position, with coated, ST CV1052 in the power and … hmm nice, even very nice, but... something didn't seem quite right, to my ears they sounded veiled, very good detail, very good bass but just as if the 450's were being held back, not sure if that is to do with the inherent warmth of the Elise or something else?, so I tried another pair of coated ST CV's, and the same thing, then straight bottle CV's, no difference, by this time I was getting a little worried so tube set no 4, clear glass ST CV1052, and … yes!* YES!!*, suddenly they cam alive, as in night and day difference. The extension from top to bottom is outstanding, no strain, no loss of refinement, highs are extended, superbly detailed and yet so sweet and non fatiguing, mids are again superbly detailed, smooth, vocals are gorgeous and slightly forward, but best of all is the imaging and the bass, wonderful, deep, immersive 3d imaging, it's giving me the feeling of almost floating in the sound, it seems to be coming from everywhere, and then, there's the bass, h1, you said the bass was deep, and certainly you are not wrong!, as I type, I'm listening to Holst's the planets, mars the bringer of war has never sounded so dramatic!, the bass is deep,* very deep,* yet always tight, very punchy, superbly defined, layered and textured, is the best bass I've ever heard in my set up!. This evening I've gone through some of my favourite albums, and all have sounded the best I've ever heard them and yet I can't help feeling that the best is still yet to come, wonderful, cheers h1, you have another convert! .

ps more to follow tomorrow .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 1, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Ok, at the fourth attempt (power tubes) this is the combo that finally sealed it for me, and finally made the CV450's really sing, the sound from these four tubes is exquisite.
> 
> A big thank you to you, h1, I wouldn't finally have the privilege of listening to these beauties so early else .
> 
> ...



Hi Scutey...just a quickie before an early zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Well done for using your Saturday night for this, your first review...at least I doubt it was too much of a chore lol! 

Interesting you found such a difference with the clear version EL32...strange, even! But hey, this hobby of ours is _full_ of strange happenings!!  The most important thing is, however, that you confirm my and @connieflyer 's findings re. the EL38...with a fair few extras thrown in for good measure!!  And especially encouraging is the fact that your findings are in *Elise*...I had a niggly feeling she might just not take _full_ advantage of what these EL38s (CV450s) have to offer. Am so glad I needn't have worried/doubted her...silly me!

And yes...even more is to come - first with a good few more hours on them, and second..._when your EL38 adapters arrive lol! _So by then, I reckon my prediction that you may well have an Elise that _surpasses_ Euforia with 'standard' tubes won't be far off the mark...(did I say that?...ssshhhhh...!!)...

I reckon tomorrow is going to be yet another very interesting, if not _surprising_ day for you, S....ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Scutey,  very strange about the Cv 1052's but so long as you have some working, that is what counts. I have both the coated and clear and both work equal in my amp. Have not tried the clear since the EL38's have come, but would imagine they would be fine.  I burned them in as well as the coated to see what difference I could detect. But on my system they came out about the same. Not am overloaded with cv1052's and El32's.  Though they were going to be the top of the heap and bought extra. Nope now El38's have that spot. When I get the other pair of El38 and all is working well, I am going to leave this thread so I won't be temped anymore!  Not really but it would be cheaper!


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## hypnos1 (Dec 2, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Scutey,  very strange about the Cv 1052's but so long as you have some working, that is what counts. I have both the coated and clear and both work equal in my amp. Have not tried the clear since the EL38's have come, but would imagine they would be fine.  I burned them in as well as the coated to see what difference I could detect. But on my system they came out about the same. Not am overloaded with cv1052's and El32's.  Though they were going to be the top of the heap and bought extra. Nope now El38's have that spot. When I get the other pair of El38 and all is working well, I am going to leave this thread* so I won't be temped anymore!  Not really but it would be cheaper*!



Have no fear cf...on my dead prize Koi's grave (Mother's still hangin' in there - just about lol! *)...this is it!*...*no more tubes!!* ...especially as IMHO these EL38s are so far ahead of _any_ 6SN7, 6AS7G (or equivalent - even in multiples); the ECC3x series; the C3g; and EL3N/EL11/12/Spezial/32, that it's no longer even a joke! 

I'm now more convinced than ever that only super tubes like the 300b/2A3/45 - in equally super amps - would come anywhere near the sound I'm currently hearing from my system. And even then, I'm equally convinced that they too would need at least over £4K worth of player, DAC and mains conditioning...not to mention £xK's worth of 'super' cables, if bought commercially lol!! 

So rest easy, my friend...as can anyone else looking to take their Euforia - or Elise - to stratospheric levels...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Scutey...just a quickie before an early zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
> 
> Well done for using your Saturday night for this, your first review...at least I doubt it was too much of a chore lol!
> 
> ...





connieflyer said:


> Scutey,  very strange about the Cv 1052's but so long as you have some working, that is what counts. I have both the coated and clear and both work equal in my amp. Have not tried the clear since the EL38's have come, but would imagine they would be fine.  I burned them in as well as the coated to see what difference I could detect. But on my system they came out about the same. Not am overloaded with cv1052's and El32's.  Though they were going to be the top of the heap and bought extra. Nope now El38's have that spot. When I get the other pair of El38 and all is working well, I am going to leave this thread so I won't be temped anymore!  Not really but it would be cheaper!


Hi h1, connieflyer, yes it was strange, there was definitely a noticeable difference when coated CV1052 were changed for the clear glass version, however , late last night, and this morning, I swapped the coated CV's back in to check I wasn't going mad!, and... there was still a difference but much less so, than on first hearing, I would say, in my system, the coated CV1052 is warmer, and slightly denser sounding, by comparison the clear glass version is a little brighter, (slightly) more extension in the highs, but only by very small amounts but enough to notice after a couple listens, this is also the case when both types are used as quads.

I'm still continuing to be amazed by the CV450, at the mo I'm listening to Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue, it's just divine!, the sense of width and clearly defined sense of space and air, these really are special.

Connieflyer I know what you mean about temptation!, I shudder to think what I've spent this year on tubes, best thing is not to think about it I guess, however I have seen some more rather nice EL38's... .

ps h1, listening to those 450 and then talking about them, well the best "chore" I've had for some time!, also more "chore" to come! .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Scutey said:


> I'm still continuing to be amazed by the CV450, at the mo I'm listening to Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue, it's just divine!, the sense of width and clearly defined sense of space and air, these really are special.
> 
> Connieflyer I know what you mean about temptation!, I shudder to think what I've spent this year on tubes, best thing is not to think about it I guess,* however I have seen some more rather nice* *EL38's... .*
> 
> ps h1, listening to those 450 and then talking about them, well the best "chore" I've had for some time!, also more "chore" to come! .



Oh dear...looks like I could well be the cause of yet another bankruptcy lol! ...just be sure you keep Elise - plus tubes, of course! - well hidden from the bailiffs!!! ...

Hope the 'chore' isn't proving too much for you today...especially as Sunday is supposed to be 'a day of rest' (who on Earth came up with that saying lol?...must have been back in the 'good old days'...of religious chroniclers!! ).


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Oh dear...looks like I could well be the cause of yet another bankruptcy lol! ...just be sure you keep Elise - plus tubes, of course! - well hidden from the bailiffs!!! ...
> 
> Hope the 'chore' isn't proving too much for you today...especially as Sunday is supposed to be 'a day of rest' (who on Earth came up with that saying lol?...must have been back in the 'good old days'...of religious chroniclers!! ).


Tube amps are a slippery slope h1, think we all found that out pretty quickly!,  If I had a pound for the times I said no more tubes I would be a millionaire!.

On the subject of the CV450/EL38 have you tried them with the EL3N?, my curiosity got the better of me and I gave them a go, and at least for me, it's another  moment, I have to say impressed with this combo as well, not as expansive sounding as with the CV1052, more closed in, bass again though is fantastic, deep and powerful, perhaps not as tight and clean as the 1052, but for depth and punch it's very impressive and rather addictive .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 3, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Tube amps are a slippery slope h1, think we all found that out pretty quickly!,  If I had a pound for the times I said no more tubes I would be a millionaire!.
> 
> On the subject of the CV450/EL38 have you tried them with the EL3N?, my curiosity got the better of me and I gave them a go, and at least for me, it's another  moment, I have to say impressed with this combo as well, not as expansive sounding as with the CV1052, more closed in, bass again though is fantastic, deep and powerful, perhaps not as tight and clean as the 1052, but for depth and punch it's very impressive and rather addictive .



Hi S....no, I haven't tried the EL3N with the 38 myself, but what you say reflects exactly the 3N's character...and which is why I, and many others, ended up preferring its German sibling - the EL11...not quite so 'coloured', and with a better overall FR balance (actually, I myself was lucky enough to find the extremely rare _mesh_-plated Valvo EL11 and Australian Philips EL3N*G*, which combined the best qualities of both lol!!).
And again, for the very reasons you touched on, I could never go back to any other tube...that amazing separation/placement and incredible soundstage alone of the EL32 is now, for me, an absolutely *essential* prerequisite - nothing less will do lol!  And the fact that the EL38/CV450 has everything of the 32, and *loads more besides*, means I no longer have any desire to even try any other tube I'm afraid...have done this too many times before, only to be disappointed with tubes I was previously in love with!!  

But I understand your curiosity to see how other tubes sound in combo...can certainly be very interesting lol......So KEEP ENJOYING!...CJ


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## hypnos1

OK now guys, own up...who amongst you bagged that lot of 6 EL38s (3x later versions and 3x old 'balloon' types) on ebay (UK) at noon today?
Well, I _hope_ it was someone from our fraternity, and not a 'foreign' lurker lol!  It just seems that every time I adapt a new tube that turns out to be a winner in our amps... _hey presto_, they suddenly become much harder to find and/or the price skyrockets! 

Trouble is, it's a catch22 situation of course...to spread the good word here means anyone else watching also gets the nod! Hence my eagerness always to encourage folks here to jump in ASAP. 
So it looks like it might be a while before (hopefully!) new stashes appear on the market...and not _over_-priced, with any luck!!  Because these tubes literally outperform 'conventional' ones (bar the likes of the 2A3/300b etc) by a mile...and still, as yet, at prices far below most so-called 'top flight' ones.

Before I go, I just have to relay my latest WOW moment with these tremendous tubes. Although I'm not much into pure 'electronica', my head is still spinning after another listen to Lindsey Stirling's 'Stars Align'...absolutely incredible!  Once y'all get your own EL38s, you _must_ give this number a look...trust me!!! 

ps. In my last lot of 38s/CV450s there was a NOS, old 'balloon' style (large!) tube, with internal coating and _black_ plate, as opposed to the later grey. In certain respects it doesn't actually look quite as well made as the other, later shape with the nice ceramic spacers on the posts. Relegated to its box until now - thinking it might be somehow inferior - out of interest, I stuck it in my makeshift testing adapter and...mmmm....very nice indeed...equal _at least_ to the fancier looking tube! So this is something else to perhaps look out for...(before the lurkers bag 'em lol!!!)...CHEERS...CJ


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## connieflyer

Was not me.  Perhaps what we will have to do (just in case you decided to do more rolling!) would be to make sure the tube is a winner, and then buy up all you will need and then tell the rest of the community about them!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Was not me.  Perhaps what we will have to do (just in case you decided to do more rolling!) would be to make sure the tube is a winner, and then buy up all you will need and then tell the rest of the community about them!



Aah cf...too late I'm afraid...read my lips - *no more tubes lol!!!*..._*ever...??!!...*_


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> OK now guys, own up...who amongst you bagged that lot of 6 EL38s (3x later versions and 3x old 'balloon' types) on ebay (UK) at noon today?
> Well, I _hope_ it was someone from our fraternity, and not a 'foreign' lurker lol!  It just seems that every time I adapt a new tube that turns out to be a winner in our amps... _hey presto_, they suddenly become much harder to find and/or the price skyrockets!
> 
> Trouble is, it's a catch22 situation of course...to spread the good word here means anyone else watching also gets the nod! Hence my eagerness always to encourage folks here to jump in ASAP.
> ...


No me either!, although I was tempted!, not seen those balloon shaped grey glass before, still keeping my eyes peeled though!.


----------



## Scutey

Mrs X adapters arrived today, so it's the quad this evening, looking forward to these h1!.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> No me either!, although I was tempted!, not seen those balloon shaped grey glass before, still keeping my eyes peeled though!.



Yo S...keep those eyes peeled _real_ sharp...its close sibling, the EL37 in this (old) livery, commands an even higher price than the later ones like our CV450s lol!!...go figure!! 



Scutey said:


> Mrs X adapters arrived today, so it's the quad this evening, looking forward to these h1!.



Whoa...you've beaten @connieflyer to the foursome, it looks like (unless something magical happens in the US today lol! ).

Methinks you're in for a fun evening...and an interesting one, hopefully......


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## Scutey

I shall be keeping my eyes peeled h1!, I've noticed since you're discovery of the CV450/EL38 they don't hang around very long on eBay, think your assumption is spot on.

Those adapters didn't take long to arrive, mrs X dispatches very quickly, just 10 day from order to my door, pretty good really.

As for the CV450/EL38, quad, aka the "dream team", they're just limbering up for an evening of audio bliss! .

ps you were right about the EL3N, listened to them for about an hour, they became a bit too much with the CV450, the bass was too powerful, even for me! .


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## aqsw (Dec 3, 2018)

Is $80.00 Canadian a fair price for a set of nos mullard  EL38s?


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## hypnos1 (Dec 3, 2018)

Scutey said:


> I shall be keeping my eyes peeled h1!, I've noticed since you're discovery of the CV450/EL38 they don't hang around very long on eBay, think your assumption is spot on.
> 
> Those adapters didn't take long to arrive, mrs X dispatches very quickly, just 10 day from order to my door, pretty good really.
> 
> ...



Hi S...I feel your anticipation from here lol - I do hope you're not disappointed! But, of course, your new tubes - plus adapters - will take some time yet to burn in. However, I'm sure you'll be able to get a glimpse at least of what's in store...

And as you found, one certainly has to live with a combo a good while before really getting an accurate handle on a sound lol 

Talking of which, now, with a good few more hours on this not-so-pretty old 'balloon' style EL38, I have to say that I'm already mightily impressed. If anything, bass is hitting even harder (but this might well ease back a bit, as per normal with new EL38s). And that's with it sitting in a less-than-perfect makeshift adapter...not the full works lol!  Which is great news for anyone not too worried about the _look_ of their tube lineup...they partner _soundwise_ with the 'pretty ones' absolutely perfectly.

And as I intimated previously, their black plate EL37 (almost) equivalent is on sale at Tubeworld for about $200..._*each!!*_...so this particular EL3*8* especially is truly in hallowed territory lol! 

And looks like this :



Spot the old'un lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Dec 3, 2018)

aqsw said:


> Is $80.00 Canadian a fair price for a set of nos mullard  EL38s?



Hi aqsw...about £48?...an absolute steal - go for 'em lol!!


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## connieflyer

Did not see that add, why not go in look up buyer and see what he has been doing, as far as how often he buys and sells and what departments he does so. You might also look at his store and see what else he sells.  Of you can shoot me a link to the tubes that you were bidding on and I will look around for you.


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...I feel your anticipation from here lol - I do hope you're not disappointed! But, of course, your new tubes - plus adapters - will take some time yet to burn in. However, I'm sure you'll be able to get a glimpse at least of what's in store...
> 
> And as you found, one certainly has to live with a combo a good while before really getting an accurate handle on a sound lol
> 
> ...



H1, re the "dream team", I'm definitely* NOT* disappointed!, they've been burning in now for 5 hours, and been listening properly for the last hour, still getting my head around them, assessment wise, but the first thought that popped into my head was "pure", and crystal clear. As for your "balloon style", I must admit they lack the film star looks of your CV's, but then I guess you don't care if the sound beautiful!, also, you may have seen them, I think there is a pair of those for sale on eBay at the mo, I must admit I am tempted, although they do look a bit grotty and one looks like it has a wonky/loose anode cap.

Enjoy those oldie but goodie 38's .


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> H1, re the "dream team", I'm definitely* NOT* disappointed!, they've been burning in now for 5 hours, and been listening properly for the last hour, still getting my head around them, assessment wise, but the first thought that popped into my head was "pure", and crystal clear. As for your "balloon style", I must admit they lack the film star looks of your CV's, but then I guess you don't care if the sound beautiful!, also, you may have seen them, I think there is a pair of those for sale on eBay at the mo, I must admit I am tempted, although they do look a bit grotty and one looks like it has a wonky/loose anode cap.
> 
> Enjoy those oldie but goodie 38's .



Yo Scutey...it'll take a day or 2 for the real magic of the foursome to develop, so take your time lol! ...(but you've made a good start with your first thoughts...).

As for those oldies on ebay...they're far too grotty for my tastes alas! ...not worth the risk IMHO...

HAPPY CONTINUED LISTENING!...and g'night all...CJ


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## hypnos1

Just a quickie folks.

@Scutey ...Your use of the word "pure" is an apt one indeed for this tube's sound - (one of) my own previously was "clean"..."pure" is better lol! 

Another I'm finding stands out more and more as the days go by is : *precise*...a direct result, obviously, of even better separation and placement than the wonderful EL32. Along with that old stalwart, *PRaT*...the most evident being its masterly control of *rhythm*, which often isn't actually so obvious. But in conjunction with Euforia - and in my system - this takes complex classical pieces to a whole new level, let alone _good_ jazz numbers. 

And all of the above - along with many other qualities - now leave me open-mouthed, especially with large-scale pieces by Mahler, and such as 'Mars' from Holst's Planets Suite.
Oh, and another appropriate word is : *BIG!*...the sort of sound that I myself believe can *only* come from BIG tubes lol! ...

ps. Scutey...hope your new tubes and adapters are cooking nicely......CJ


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## connieflyer

That is very interesting news CJ. I'm finding that there are one or two things about these tubes that I'm not totally happy about. Number one when I got up this morning the coffee was not made and number two they refuse to make breakfast this morning! Talk about independent tubes! No all is well with the world this morning, I just got notice from the post office that my tubes will be delivered today! And also got notification from eBay that I won the auction that I had bid on! Two El 38 Mullard btand new in the box for $50 US! I could not believe it, I was the only one that bid on that pair of tubes. They are gorgeous if the pictures hold true, and the seller's reputation was hundred percent so I have to believe they will be. But for sure that at least one other person would have bit on them before the auction ended. I wasn't going to bid on them cuz I figured NOS tubes like that would go for a princely sum, but for some reason nobody bid except me. Just goes to show sometimes you just have to put it out there and see what happens. Adapters are on the way in from mrs. X so I'll have a spare pair that way. The day is starting out quite well. Now if I could just get that stupid tube to get the coffee started first thing all would be well with the world indeed!


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## connieflyer

Well, tubes are playing as I speak. Sounds great!  Beautiful job on the conversion, as usual of course, all four burning brightly.  First up is 2Cellos Asturias Meets Carmen, cellos deep and rich, now Losing you Alison Krauss, she sounds like she is sitting right here with me, but I still am not sharing coffee. The extra pair of tubes are, to my first looks, appear to be Nos as well. No corrosion, no over burn, clean as a whistle.  Too bad others did not take advantage of your offer for these tubes. Well, that should do it for me, two quads of Nos El 38's


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## connieflyer

I just got an email from Vincent, the Ebayer that I purchased the two NOS El38's from.  Here is his message for those that may want to get some of these beauty's .  Hi
thank you for your purchase
are you interested in other Mullard EL38 new le n box? I have at least 4 pairs left.
Best regards

Vincent
So there are more out there.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 4, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> That is very interesting news CJ. I'm finding that there are one or two things about these tubes that I'm not totally happy about. Number one when I got up this morning the coffee was not made and number two they refuse to make breakfast this morning! Talk about independent tubes! No all is well with the world this morning, I just got notice from the post office that my tubes will be delivered today! And also got notification from eBay that I won the auction that I had bid on! Two El 38 Mullard btand new in the box for $50 US! I could not believe it, I was the only one that bid on that pair of tubes. They are gorgeous if the pictures hold true, and the seller's reputation was hundred percent so I have to believe they will be. But for sure that at least one other person would have bit on them before the auction ended. I wasn't going to bid on them cuz I figured NOS tubes like that would go for a princely sum, but for some reason nobody bid except me. Just goes to show sometimes you just have to put it out there and see what happens. Adapters are on the way in from mrs. X so I'll have a spare pair that way. The day is starting out quite well. Now if I could just get that stupid tube to get the coffee started first thing all would be well with the world indeed!



Ah cf...I too have something to moan about with these tubes..._*they've made my favourite Earl Grey cuppa go cold lol!*_

As if I'm already having a job coping with all this excitement, looks like I might just have to endure a breakup in the lovely CV450s' symmetry : ie. yet another OMG moment while trying to enjoy said cuppa(s). This was while my ears were being bombarded by Holst's 'Mars' movement once again...that old, 'balloon', black-plated tube I talked about previously is maturing into something quite amazing, in one of the power slots. Its slightly extra energy over the 'pretty one' fair blew me out of my seat almost...totally unexpected! And that's _before_ I give it the full treatment - ie. adaptation _minus_ socket; direct metal-to-metal contact for the top anode wire and all the pin wires (fiddly!), and use of Neotech solid UP-OCC silver wire as well as copper. Can't begin to imagine what it'll then sound like..._plus_ more hours' burn-in on this obviously NOS tube ...(and I wouldn't be surprised if this oldie (not me!!) could even make that coffee for you lol!)...

Edit...ps. Forgot to say that fearing the 'oldie's' extra slam might just come at the expense of _delicacy_, I checked with the more gentle 'Venus' and 'Saturn' tracks of 'Planets Suite' and...still totally heart-melting....phew!! 



connieflyer said:


> I just got an email from Vincent, the Ebayer that I purchased the two NOS El38's from.  Here is his message for those that may want to get some of these beauty's .  Hi
> thank you for your purchase
> are you interested in other Mullard EL38 new le n box? I have at least 4 pairs left.
> Best regards
> ...



WHAT?!...you must be kidding me cf...especially at that marvellous price you mentioned. Given these tubes way outperform those top flight drivers* and *powers, this must surely be an opportunity not to be missed, by folks who haven't yet acquired their own stash. Luckily a few of us have already made sure of a good supply lol! . I can only urge others to dive in NOW...this kind of bargain won't be around much longer, I'm sure!!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, tubes are playing as I speak. Sounds great!  Beautiful job on the conversion, as usual of course, all four burning brightly.  First up is 2Cellos Asturias Meets Carmen, cellos deep and rich, now Losing you Alison Krauss, she sounds like she is sitting right here with me, but I still am not sharing coffee. The extra pair of tubes are, to my first looks, appear to be Nos as well. No corrosion, no over burn, clean as a whistle.  Too bad others did not take advantage of your offer for these tubes. Well, that should do it for me, two quads of Nos El 38's



Ooohhh...aren't they just *beautiful* cf?...looks _*and*_ magical performers - what more can one possibly ask lol?


----------



## connieflyer

Wish you had not mentioned the ballon type tubes.  Always liked the way they looked. Now I suppose I will have to look around for some too!  Will this never end?  Have another five hours on the El38's that I just received this morning, and they are just great.  The music comes out of total blackness,  clarity in spades. Should have the next pair in about a week, and the pair of adapters from Mrs X also. And then (other than the balloon type if any can be found) are the last tubes I am going to pursue.  The Sennheiser 800 phones have never sounded this good, it has bass that was never a strong point,now a more balanced presentation. May have to pick up a spare pair to get me through the rest of my life!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Wish you had not mentioned the ballon type tubes.  Always liked the way they looked. Now I suppose I will have to look around for some too!  Will this never end?  Have another five hours on the El38's that I just received this morning, and they are just great.  The music comes out of total blackness,  clarity in spades. Should have the next pair in about a week, and the pair of adapters from Mrs X also. And then (other than the balloon type if any can be found) are the last tubes I am going to pursue.  The Sennheiser 800 phones have never sounded this good, it has bass that was never a strong point,now a more balanced presentation. May have to pick up a spare pair to get me through the rest of my life!



Hi cf...if you do go looking for the older 'balloon' tube, I suspect - from the prices of the sibling EL37 - the best could well be the one with *black* plates as opposed to _grey_...and which so often seems to be the case with really old tubes of any sort. But hey, the 'pretty ones' sound awesome enough anyway lol! 

These EL38s are obviously taking your Senn HD800s to another level entirely...just as they have my T1s. So a spare pair at a reasonable price - again just as I have done with the Beyers - sounds a pretty good idea to me. No need for the (IMHO) way over-priced Utopia!!

And as further encouragement for yourself, and others, @Johnnysound looks to be spot on with his assumption that these EL tubes could well follow the 32 in regard to burn-in time. With well over 100hrs on one pair, nearing 100 on one other tube, and even less on the 'balloon', they keep on surprising me the same way the 32s did...but even more so...and it's doing my head in lol! I sit here _stupefied_, unable (_unwilling!_) even to move...just how much better can these things get?!!! If the 2A3 tube can beat this sound, I'm quite sure the men in white suits will be carting me away _post-haste!!! ...._Enjoy your further testing of the foursome over the coming days...good times ahead, methinks ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well I must say, I have never been more impressed with musical renditions as I have today.  I took time out to go to lunch with a friend, and then back under the phones again. I keep having to listen to this that and everything to hear the new sounds.  Alison Krauss, I had to send her a marriage proposal, after listening to her latest album in Hi Rez, especially  River in the Rain, there is no way the 2a3 can best this sound.  And I am looking for a back up pair of 800's , don't want to lose this sound! Having a hard time tearing myself away from the music today.  This could be the newest diet fad. You sit under the phones, and never take the time out to eat  much!  Well, have to leave you all for now.  Need a break, or I will flow out of this chair. Seriously folks, you should really consider these tubes, especially while there are some Nos still available. These won't last long, the ones I got , I could not believe the price, as most good used pairs were double that price.  Now this seller says he has four more pair left, if I did not already have six here and the two more on the way in, I would be jumping on these.


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Just a quickie folks.
> 
> @Scutey ...Your use of the word "pure" is an apt one indeed for this tube's sound - (one of) my own previously was "clean"..."pure" is better lol!
> 
> ...


Hi h1, tubes are cooking very nicely, now around the 11 hour mark. Everything I've thrown at them, Rachmaninov, Bach, Holst, Bill Evans Trio, Miles Davis, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and then the genre I find most difficult for tubes Heavy Metal, they handle it all with utter assuredness, this combo has a scalpel like precision, without ever sounding clinical, Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no1 has never sounded so dramatic, or emotive, the way it captures the majesty of Bach's Toccata and Fugue, everything I've listened to has sounded the best I've ever heard, sounds and textures I've never heard before in familiar records are making themselves known, the way these tubes can delve so deep into a recording and retrieve details is utter uncanny, I have to say, h1, I think this takes the Elise way *WAY* beyond what I could possibly have hoped when I bought it just over a year ago .


----------



## aqsw (Dec 4, 2018)

I would be interested in a pair. What is he asking ?, and how do I get ahold of Vincent?


connieflyer said:


> I just got an email from Vincent, the Ebayer that I purchased the two NOS El38's from.  Here is his message for those that may want to get some of these beauty's .  Hi
> thank you for your purchase
> are you interested in other Mullard EL38 new le n box? I have at least 4 pairs left.
> Best regards
> ...


----------



## connieflyer

Scutey,Congratulations on the music saga, I have my quad in for the last six hours, and I am finding that this has never sounded this good.  I am heartened to hear that the Elise is responding to the El38's as well, we thought it would, but you never know. I enjoyed the Elise while I had one, and the Euforia was an upgrade.  But these El38's have taken this right into the strasosphere the improvement is all out of proportion to what I am used to with a great tube upgrade. None of the other tubes have done this well, not the VT's nor the GEC's come close to what these have done. Quite happy, to sit and go over the music genre's I was also impressed with Bach's Toccata and Fugue like I have never heard it before. The organ swells and never distorts.  Presently I am halfway through Rimsky-Korsakov's Scherazade and what a moving piece. Cresendo's jump back and forth to no end.  Love it.


----------



## aqsw (Dec 4, 2018)

Sorry, double post


connieflyer said:


> I just got an email from Vincent, the Ebayer that I purchased the two NOS El38's from.  Here is his message for those that may want to get some of these beauty's .  Hi
> thank you for your purchase
> are you interested in other Mullard EL38 new le n box? I have at least 4 pairs left.
> Best regards
> ...


----------



## connieflyer (Dec 4, 2018)

Aqsw, the ones I bid on, and I was the only bidder were $50 EU.  The seller is from France, the tubes are NOS.  This was the bid page,  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paire-Boxe...ntode-Vannes-NOS-NIB-Tubes-CV450/223256287033 he contacted me and wanted to  know if I wanted any more, he has four more pair.  You could try contacting him on Ebay, let him know you got the info from here I told him I was going to post the info here and ask if he would sell you a pair or quad at the same price.  Can't hurt. This is the sellers page.   https://www.ebay.com/usr/french-drawer?_trksid=p2047675.l2559  so give it try. You can see the pictures in the add how good they look and he has a good rating.


----------



## Scutey

Hi cf, good to hear your enjoying these tubes as well, great to know their appeal is widening!. There was a little bit of hesitation in getting some, always a gamble when they've not been tried in your amp, I'm guessing I'm the first Elise owner to try them, but so convincing was h1 I just had to give them ago and it's paid off spectacularly well!. Every genre I've tried them with sounds fantastic, but they do seem to shine particularly well with classical, all of the drama, majesty and emotion is conveyed so beautifully, I can well imagine Scheherazade to sound moving, in fact you've reminded me to try out my recording, so thanks! .


----------



## connieflyer

Scutey, glad to remind you, has always been a favorite of mine. And you are right about the classics sounding so much better, there is just so much information in an orchestration and these put everything right out there for you to hear.  Glad I picked up an extra quad of them and some adapters.  So good for awhile now I hope,  unless of course H1 comes up with another winner.  He really is liking that balloon tube he got in with the last batch!  I have looked for some but on luck.  And I am not disappointed, the way these El38's sound, I am a happy camper.  The Sennheiser 800 have never sounded so good, so much so that I am looking to pick up a spare pair,  this combo is unreal.


----------



## hypnos1

Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...all I can say is you make an old(ish!) man very happy tonight.

One always wonders with a new tube whether the brain is playing some kind of weird and wonderful game in what it's hearing. But yes, as you both intimate, the leap in performance is _so _great that it is actually indisputable...no matter how hard you try to find weaknesses. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, this giant leap defies all normal logic, and is not only way beyond anything I personally have ever encountered before, but also anything I've ever read about in 5 years of endless scouring of related info right across the web.

And guys...things will get even better yet, if my own experience is anything to go by lol .

I regard this lucky find as truly the _gold_ needle in a _giant_ haystack to beat all haystacks lol! . And I thank you for having faith in my judgment, and sharing in this adventure...I shall sleep well tonight....
Speaking of which, I've simply got to have a bit more 'magic' time before diving into that hay...but *not* to go looking for any more tubes, you'll be glad to hear!! So BFN, and HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ

ps. I too shall dig out Scheherazade methinks...one of my favourites also...


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Scutey, glad to remind you, has always been a favorite of mine. And you are right about the classics sounding so much better, there is just so much information in an orchestration and these put everything right out there for you to hear.  Glad I picked up an extra quad of them and some adapters.  So good for awhile now I hope,  unless of course H1 comes up with another winner.  He really is liking that balloon tube he got in with the last batch!  I have looked for some but on luck.  And I am not disappointed, the way these El38's sound, I am a happy camper.  The Sennheiser 800 have never sounded so good, so much so that I am looking to pick up a spare pair,  this combo is unreal.


I can imagine those HD 800's sounding pretty impressive with this combo, soundstage must be immense, I feel the same way about my Beyer DT 1990's, also I'd love to get another quad of these, especially the balloon shape, if some come up for sale/auction it could be very interesting to see gets em, hopefully "one of us" .


----------



## Scutey (Dec 4, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...all I can say is you make an old(ish!) man very happy tonight.
> 
> One always wonders with a new tube whether the brain is playing some kind of weird and wonderful game in what it's hearing. But yes, as you both intimate, the leap in performance is _so _great that it is actually indisputable...no matter how hard you try to find weaknesses. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, this giant leap defies all normal logic, and is not only way beyond anything I personally have ever encountered before, but also anything I've ever read about in 5 years of endless scouring of related info right across the web.
> 
> ...


H1, I am so glad you had the strength of your convictions, to let us know of your find. You were spot on with your assessment of the EL32 so I had no doubt, you had discovered another gem for the Euforia and possibly for the Elise as well. So from me, it's a big thank to you for your infectious enthusiasm and for sharing your findings and thus allowing all Elise/Euforia owners to share in your discovery, so cheers cj!  =.


----------



## connieflyer

Scutey, well said, he did us all proud although at the rate I'm going under these phones tonight I will probably have to go sit in a dark quiet room with no sound for a couple of days to give my ears arrest!


----------



## hypnos1

Many thanks @Scutey ...I get as much pleasure from seeing others appreciate and enjoy the fruits of my efforts as I do myself...makes the whole thing worthwhile IMO.

And thanks must go to you too on behalf of all Elise owners for taking up the challenge, and being their trailblazer for this latest tube that both amps are able - somehow! - to not only just play, but do so to a level that would certainly appear to be its absolute optimum...as triode-strapped, at least (which does help give a more linear performance compared to straight pentode - the best of both worlds IMHO! ).

ps. (And to @connieflyer )...Just couldn't help myself I'm afraid. Those 2 grotty-looking 'balloon' EL38s mentioned previously would appear from the photos to in fact have *black* plates, so I've gone for them...for better or worse! Hopefully they'll clean up nicely and still have plenty of life left in them?!!! Will keep you updated...


----------



## hypnos1

And thanks to you too @connieflyer ...and for being the first to confirm my hearing wasn't indeed playing silly games with me lol ...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

H it was an easy confirmation.  Almost from the first note, it was obvious that these tubes were going to be different, and that thought has not left. No problems, just musical pleasure beyond anything that Euforia has done for me before. An excellent design that  has matured into a very substantial amplifier. I am more than pleased.  Thanks H


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 5, 2018)

OK then guys...it's now official - those men in white suits will be knocking on my door tomorrow, complete with _at least_ one straitjacket lol! 

Why?...these EL38s are scrambling my brain even more than the EL32s!!

With yet another 24hrs on all of them, your use of the word 'scalpel', @Scutey , is most apt regarding *dissection* of bodily material in the *finest* detail (and yes indeed, minus any _obvious _'clinical' procedures!!)...viz a return to the tracks in Genesis's album 'Duke' where all Hell breaks loose. Although I've heard these literally hundreds of times - as prime testing material - this afternoon I thought I was listening to a totally different recording. That 'scalpel' was finding more fine detail than I ever knew existed on this album, and presenting it in an impressively cohesive, controlled manner..._spooky lol!_
And although this _kind_ of experience is common when upgrading any item of equipment - not just tubes - I personally have _never_ had one to this degree... from tubes, that is!....(and there are those who question the whole concept of 'burn-in'?...unbelievable lol! ).

So, folks, just another confirmation that _plenty_ of time on these tubes will bring surprising rewards! ...(however, just be warned those men in white suits may well be knocking on_ your _door!! )...


----------



## connieflyer

just think by time we get eight or nine thousand hours on these tubes we will be so far into Nirvana that we won't even be on this thread anymore! We may not even be on this planet anymore. that's pretty incredible how many hours did you say you had a little over a hundred now? I think I'm coming up on about 15 on these but I can see where it's going to add up fast because I can't get enough of these stupid things! started listening yesterday afternoon didn't even want to bother stopping for dinner, I finally did if you can call grabbing a bagel dinner but that was about the extent . Well I hope I get the same results, and I don't see why I wouldn't cuz I got the same exact type of pattern with the e l 32 so I would imagine that if you're experiencing this with the 38 I'll be doing the same thing. Can't thank you enough, I'm not sure I want to know about the balloon tubes! Although is rare as they are trying to find a couple more of them would be very hard so probably not going to worry about it after all. Take care of CJ


----------



## Scutey (Dec 5, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Many thanks @Scutey ...I get as much pleasure from seeing others appreciate and enjoy the fruits of my efforts as I do myself...makes the whole thing worthwhile IMO.
> 
> And thanks must go to you too on behalf of all Elise owners for taking up the challenge, and being their trailblazer for this latest tube that both amps are able - somehow! - to not only just play, but do so to a level that would certainly appear to be its absolute optimum...as triode-strapped, at least (which does help give a more linear performance compared to straight pentode - the best of both worlds IMHO! ).
> 
> ps. (And to @connieflyer )...Just couldn't help myself I'm afraid. Those 2 grotty-looking 'balloon' EL38s mentioned previously would appear from the photos to in fact have *black* plates, so I've gone for them...for better or worse! Hopefully they'll clean up nicely and still have plenty of life left in them?!!! Will keep you updated...





hypnos1 said:


> OK then guys...it's now official - those men in white suits will be knocking on my door tomorrow, complete with _at least_ one straitjacket lol!
> 
> Why?...these EL38s are scrambling my brain even more than the EL32s!!
> 
> ...


Hi h1, It would certainly be interesting to hear of any more Elise owners trying these El38's out to get the same level of sound that I'm experiencing. One thing I've noticed with these tubes is how good they sound with older recordings. I have an old Decca recording of Beethoven's Piano concertos, wonderful performances, but with the tubes I've been using it sounded rather dull and dated, cue EL38's and wow!, it sounds as if it's been remastered, much more detail, clarity and energy, wonderful!. You mentioned Genesis's Duke album, well I had the same experience last night with, Pink Floyd's Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon albums, although I've heard both countless times, because of the way they were presented in such a different and much better way it really did feel like hearing them for the first time, magic! .

ps if those "men in white coats" come knocking, I'm going to barricade my self in! .


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> just think by time we get eight or nine thousand hours on these tubes we will be so far into Nirvana that we won't even be on this thread anymore! We may not even be on this planet anymore. that's pretty incredible how many hours did you say you had a little over a hundred now? I think I'm coming up on about 15 on these but I can see where it's going to add up fast because I can't get enough of these stupid things! started listening yesterday afternoon didn't even want to bother stopping for dinner, I finally did if you can call grabbing a bagel dinner but that was about the extent . Well I hope I get the same results, and I don't see why I wouldn't cuz I got the same exact type of pattern with the e l 32 so I would imagine that if you're experiencing this with the 38 I'll be doing the same thing. Can't thank you enough, I'm not sure I want to know about the balloon tubes! Although is rare as they are trying to find a couple more of them would be very hard so probably not going to worry about it after all. Take care of CJ



Oh dear, cf...looks like I might well be the cause of not only a few bankruptcies, but death by starvation - or malnutrition, at least lol!! 

And in Nirvana?...honestly thought I was there already before yesterday with these CV450s (EL38)...well, 3 plus a 'balloon' (shan't know for sure yet whether it's this that brought the extra magic yesterday...will need to do more comparison once I've given it the full adapting works). And then those extra hours - taking them to well over 100 hrs - had me in disbelief..._again _lol!...so what else is possibly in store yet?!!!...will keep you informed...

ps. Sorry ol' friend, but if it turns out to be that oldie tube after all, I'm afraid I shall just _have_ to sing its praises here some more!......but it's more likely to be the extra burn-in all round...???!!!...CHEERS!...CJ

pps More on this subject below...


----------



## connieflyer

Well, what can I say? If it is to be another discovery, then so be it! I am still getting my head around these tubes.  Have about 30 hours on them now, I run these a lot longer than I usually do.  The heat build up is not enough to be concerned about at all. Not quite as cool as the St32, but still the amp after 8 hours is just barely warm.  So I am not seeing any problems so far, except that spending toooooo much time under the phones! I think now that the newness is wearing off, and the constant checking familiar  pieces is showing that there is more to like with these El38's, I will be able to commence with normal routines now.  Still hearing things in the music that has not been obvious before.  Hopefully Scutey with his Elise is still experiencing gains as well. This could be a way for the Elise owners to get a very inexpensive upgrade to their amps.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 6, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, It would certainly be interesting to hear of any more Elise owners trying these El38's out to get the same level of sound that I'm experiencing. One thing I've noticed with these tubes is how good they sound with older recordings. I have an old Decca recording of Beethoven's Piano concertos, wonderful performances, but with the tubes I've been using it sounded rather dull and dated, cue EL38's and wow!, it sounds as if it's been remastered, much more detail, clarity and energy, wonderful!. You mentioned Genesis's Duke album, well I had the same experience last night with, Pink Floyd's Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon albums, although I've heard both countless times, because of the way they were presented in such a different and much better way it really did feel like hearing them for the first time, magic! .
> 
> ps if those "men in white coats" come knocking, I'm going to barricade my self in! .



Hi Scutey...sorry, mon ami, but those scary guys use battering rams lol!!! 

Yes indeed...another nice bonus that these tubes can work such wonders on some less-than-ideal older recordings 

And yes again, I can only hope more Elise owners also take advantage of this fabulous tube, and transform it into something else again IMHO..._before_ these tubes skyrocket!! 

Ever since yesterday's latest revelation I spoke of re. some 'Duke' tracks, I've been racking my brain as to what could possibly have brought such a magical experience...over and above the obvious appearance of so much more detail, and its uncanny, controlled presentation. And on a re-listen, it hit me just what it is...*grip*... (not _grab_, which can be merely something 'quirky' or new).
This, to me, is an amalgam of the elements of _pace, rhythm, timing, balance and control_ all rolled into one all-encompassing _feeling_. I have never before felt myself carried along on a wave of sound over which I had no control whatsoever...and yet it was so beautiful, it could have carried (nay..._swept!_) me out to sea and simply left me there to drown..._seriously weird!! _I can't wait to see what happens when I put on some _highly_ emotional classical pieces once more...(I can hear those darned fellers in white suits knocking down my door yet again...and very soon!!).

And so once more, folks..._be warned!!!...CJ_


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...update on the latest 'revelation'.

While my older, 'balloon' shape (*black* plate) EL38 is still sitting in its testing adapter, I thought I'd do a quick comparison with the later CV450/EL38...and sorry @connieflyer , but I recommend y'all _do_ keep your eyes peeled for at least one of these beauties. 

Much to my amazement, a good bit of that _extra _magic I mentioned previously would actually appear to be down to this tube after all...and that's with just one in the right hand power slot!
And it is in fact quite difficult to pinpoint just what's behind this phenomenon...obvious first off are an even _more_(!!) solid, deep and detailed bass, along with more shimmer and sparkle to the treble. But something else is going on here, and it'll probably take me a good while to put my finger on it!...(perhaps what contributes to that _*grip*_ I mentioned previously). But should prove a very interesting 'chore' lol! ... 
All I can say is that those guys way back then had some sort of 'Fairy Dust' that they secretly sprinkled over their tubes (valves!) before sucking out the air lol! . Whatever, this seems to be the case so often with our glass marvels...and one I reckon modern reproduction guys would _kill_ for!!

And so the saga continues......


----------



## Scutey

Hi guys, my 38/CV's are now around the 26 hour mark and continuing to open up/improve, they certainly seem to thrive with classical music, orchestras have an expansive, epic feel, just finished listening to Vaughan Williams, A Sea Symphony, well it certainly sounded epic!, it gave it a sense of scale that a full orchestra and choir deserve, but it's not just classical, they also have the agility, dynamics, timing and slam to handle rock music as well, Pink Floyd's Pulse album has been given to the full EL 38 treatment, they really do present so well the scale of an individual recording, the space around the instruments, and the size of the space in which it is being played, I really feel like I'm right there, in the centre just a few rows from the front, now what's next for this audio nirvana .


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds like these are doing just fine for you, but it is kind of hard to tell, do you like these?


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi guys, my 38/CV's are now around the 26 hour mark and continuing to open up/improve, they certainly seem to thrive with classical music, orchestras have an expansive, epic feel, just finished listening to Vaughan Williams, A Sea Symphony, well it certainly sounded epic!, it gave it a sense of scale that a full orchestra and choir deserve, but it's not just classical, they also have the agility, dynamics, timing and slam to handle rock music as well, Pink Floyd's Pulse album has been given to the full EL 38 treatment, they really do present so well the scale of an individual recording, the space around the instruments, and the size of the space in which it is being played, I really feel like I'm right there, in the centre just a few rows from the front, *now what's next for this audio nirvana* .



Ah, that's easy, S....just put over 100 hours on them and you'll find out for yourself lol! ...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, that's easy, S....just put over 100 hours on them and you'll find out for yourself lol! ...CJ


Slowly getting there CJ, 29 hours and counting!. Btw is this what tube "fairy dust" looks like? .


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Sounds like these are doing just fine for you, but it is kind of hard to tell, do you like these?


Love them! .


----------



## connieflyer

I have run mine in for about 12 hours today, and have not been listening, just put them phones back on, and more change. The treble range has increased more,  things like triangles are almost crystaline, in their structure such a pure tone.  Tried some mp3's and you were right, even recordings that are not that great before are more than acceptable now.  Have to do this routine for the next week and see how it works out. I usually burn,connected to an old phone, with music playing, for about 7-8 hours, rest it for a half hour and begin again. Seems to work for me.


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 7, 2018)

OK I just can't take it anymore! While you guys are basking in your darn new heights and I'm in Bangladesh for now, a country that has infrastructure like this and the term "audiophile" simply isn't known.



*SHAME* be upon thy EL38 debauchery, shame I say!!!






 .

Actually it sounds like a job well done indeed.


----------



## leftside

In regards to the EL38, do you prefer the double 'OO', single cup, or double cup getter versions? Grey plates or black plates? Thanks.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Slowly getting there CJ, 29 hours and counting!. Btw is this what tube "fairy dust" looks like? .



Ooohhh, S....could well be!!  ...


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 7, 2018)

leftside said:


> In regards to the EL38, do you prefer the double 'OO', single cup, or double cup getter versions? Grey plates or black plates? Thanks.



Hi leftside.

A bit early for definite conclusions I'm afraid...only 3 of us seem to have been lucky enough so far to enjoy these tubes. And this is with the later, CV450-type version, that have the double 'OO' getters and grey plates. And, as you may have already gathered, are simply superb lol!

I myself am still testing the older, larger 'balloon' version (with internal coating), which doesn't actually _look_ quite as well made as the later one, but is increasingly looking like it could actually _sound_ even better...but more time is needed yet for proper evaluation, of course. And I now have three of them - two that I've managed to transform from 'grotty' looking ones on ebay (UK) to tubes that now look as good as my NOS one...(more in my next post, after dinner!...). And these all have single cup getter with *black* plates (those which seem to command the highest prices for its similar sibling, the EL37).

Hope this gives you a bit more idea on this tube that as far as I'm concerned - in Euforia and Elise, at least - has just got to be the find of the _millenium_, never mind the _century_ lol! ...


----------



## leftside

@hypnos1 Thanks. I see you are in Suffolk. My Dad used to live in Southwold by the sea.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I have run mine in for about 12 hours today, and have not been listening, just put them phones back on, and more change. The treble range has increased more,  things like triangles are almost crystaline, in their structure such a pure tone.  Tried some mp3's and you were right, even recordings that are not that great before are more than acceptable now.  Have to do this routine for the next week and see how it works out. I usually burn,connected to an old phone, with music playing, for about 7-8 hours, rest it for a half hour and begin again. Seems to work for me.



Yo cf...changes (good ones!) come thick and fast - more so even than with the EL32 IMHO!!

And yes again, 5 to 8 hrs' playing then 30 to 45 mins cooling seems the best method for burn-in...


----------



## connieflyer

The changes certainly come faster than they did with the e l 32s. If you don't listen for 10 or 12 hours and then put the phones on you get a welcome new surprise of sounds that you didn't hear 10 hours previous! This is just getting bizarre. I wonder if anybody believes us or if they think we're all bloody crazy! I kind of wonder if I was on the outside reading this thread if I would believe all that I'm reading as well. If I wouldn't have heard it from you I probably would not have believed it myself. Trust does funny things, and so glad it did El 38s are fantastic.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 7, 2018)

leftside said:


> @hypnos1 Thanks. I see you are in Suffolk. My Dad used to live in Southwold by the sea.



Ah, lucky man your Dad, leftside. We try to escape from the outskirts of downtown Lowestoft to places like Southwold as often as we can...usually _out_ of the holiday season, mind you! . Especially since the morons running this place decided to totally destroy our once semi-rural area of Carlton Colville...and still are!!! ...

Now then, as promised before chow time, here's my update on the 2x 'grotty' EL38 old timers I managed to snaffle...viz...
How to turn _*these :*_

* 
*
Into _*these :

 
*_
In other words................................................................                    *AN ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO HEALTHY TUBES                *........................................................

Just as I managed to achieve with these badly presented tubes on ebay, so can - and _should_ - anyone do the same with similar old tubes, even if not_ this_ unappealing lol!
So my advice would be to :

1. First off, *glue down *the top caps (if present!) *and *the bases, even if not (yet!) loose.

2. Clean off any dirt etc. from the glass, cap and pins with such as white spirit (Edit : as reminded by leftside, be careful not to remove any paint markings!)...water may well not be enough. This is advisable even with pins on NOS tubes, as sometimes there's a grease-like coating that you do _not_ want preventing the ideal _clean metal-to-metal_ contact.

3. Then try to get *as good a shine as possible* on those pins...the back of a blade may do the trick, but I find it often needs _careful_ scraping with a sharp edge, such as a utility knife. Then finish off with fine emery paper.The goal is to remove _all_ deposits/corrosion, and achieve the smoothest surface possible _before_ any possible treatment such as Deoxit, if one wishes.

4. Once all this has been done...*make sure to keep things this way lol!! *

And just one more thing. If these steps have been omitted in the past, I highly recommend cleaning out the sockets themselves - perhaps with something like Isopropyl alcohol on a tiny, made up 'cotton bud' that will fit! But watch out for any little bits left behind!! It's surprising how much dirt/old corrosion/dust can accumulate inside those pin sockets, and can easily degrade performance over time...

ps. Now if that ebayer had just taken a bit of trouble - as mentioned - and presented them better, I'm sure those tubes would have gone MUCH quicker, and for a lot more than I paid. Still...his loss is my (lucky) gain lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## leftside

You would have to be very careful about not removing any markings/print on the glass when using white spirit. I agree with you in regards to the pins. I use very fine sand or emery paper.


----------



## hypnos1

leftside said:


> You would have to *be very careful about not removing any markings/print on the glass *when using white spirit. I agree with you in regards to the pins. I use very fine sand or emery paper.



Good point l, for those possibly thinking of moving their tubes on at a later date...(or as reminder of just which tube it is lol!! )...


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> I have run mine in for about 12 hours today, and have not been listening, just put them phones back on, and more change. The treble range has increased more,  things like triangles are almost crystaline, in their structure such a pure tone.  Tried some mp3's and you were right, even recordings that are not that great before are more than acceptable now.  Have to do this routine for the next week and see how it works out. I usually burn,connected to an old phone, with music playing, for about 7-8 hours, rest it for a half hour and begin again. Seems to work for me.





connieflyer said:


> The changes certainly come faster than they did with the e l 32s. If you don't listen for 10 or 12 hours and then put the phones on you get a welcome new surprise of sounds that you didn't hear 10 hours previous! This is just getting bizarre. I wonder if anybody believes us or if they think we're all bloody crazy! I kind of wonder if I was on the outside reading this thread if I would believe all that I'm reading as well. If I wouldn't have heard it from you I probably would not have believed it myself. Trust does funny things, and so glad it did El 38s are fantastic.


For the first time this week I've managed to get 10+ hours on them today, 42 hours in total, did 8 hours straight, 1 hour rest and now 2 hours into the 2nd stint of day. Cf your experience pretty much mirrors mine, first 8 hours just burn in no listening, now doing some listening. This is the biggest improvement I've noticed, especially in highs and lows, greater extension, with more detail, texture, cymbals and high hats in particular really stand out in a way I've not noticed before, the bass also seems to have deepened, filled out, the slam from drums with some more aggressive rock music is quite visceral, wonderful!. Also cf, regarding these tubes, if people reading this don't believe, I would say, buy some then you'll know* exactly* what we're talking about .


----------



## JazzVinyl

Scutey said:


> For the first time this week I've managed to get 10+ hours on them today, 42 hours in total, did 8 hours straight, 1 hour rest and now 2 hours into the 2nd stint of day. Cf your experience pretty much mirrors mine, first 8 hours just burn in no listening, now doing some listening. This is the biggest improvement I've noticed, especially in highs and lows, greater extension, with more detail, texture, cymbals and high hats in particular really stand out in a way I've not noticed before, the bass also seems to have deepened, filled out, the slam from drums with some more aggressive rock music is quite visceral, wonderful!. Also cf, regarding these tubes, if people reading this don't believe, I would say, buy some then you'll know* exactly* what we're talking about .



I have questions, Scutey...

How do they know WHEN to stop changing?  Can you burn right past "ideal performance"?

Something must be physically changing, to make the tubes sound different, per hour of operation...do we know what that is?  
What is changing, and in what way?

Appreciate your thoughts....


----------



## connieflyer

Number one thing is that there is no majic inteligence involved, other than the designers. It is just a slow settleing in of the various components. As the components of the tube burn in, tolerances change creating a different mathmatical condition.  As for can it go past ideal performance, that is called aging, happens to everything in life. Noting attains the perfect balance between ying and yang and stops, one force or the other continues until destruction.  Same with life, look around, good people, bad people, dumb people, smart people, they change through out their life span.  Until they finally burn out aka die!


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## hypnos1 (Dec 10, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Number one thing is that there is no majic inteligence involved, other than the designers. It is just a slow settleing in of the various components. As the components of the tube burn in, tolerances change creating a different mathmatical condition.  As for can it go past ideal performance, that is called aging, happens to everything in life. Noting attains the perfect balance between ying and yang and stops, one force or the other continues until destruction.  Same with life, look around, good people, bad people, dumb people, smart people, they change through out their life span.  Until they finally burn out aka die!



Hi cf...all I can say is I hope these EL38s don't die for a *very *long while yet lol!! 

But this subject of 'burn-in' certainly can _seem_ rather strange and illogical sometimes. Funny how some tubes don't appear to need very long, while others - like the EL tubes especially - just keep on improving even after many, many hours! And what's even more strange/confusing is how a tube can make _sudden_ leaps...sometimes even just between sessions. I'm sure this would make an extremely interesting study for some _very  _patient (and rich!) soul...can't say I myself have come across such an in-depth, _scientific_ study. It would appear this is something that can only be fully appreciated by one's own personal experience...as with so much in the world of hi-fidelity music reproduction.... But in the final analysis, I reckon this is a phenomenon that we just have to accept - and be grateful for lol! - and one not really worth trying to fathom out!! .

Now then, mon ami, one thing I _am_ finding out for sure is that the _main_ reason for later tube development was for increased *reliability* and *rugged* use...not necessarily _sound_ quality lol!

Why? Because after years of taking apart those bits you _can_ take apart - in the process of adapting tubes - most successors do seem to be geared to such 'improvements'...ie. while what's happening _inside_ the tube may well depend on long-lost secrets, certain elements of overall _construction _definitely improved over time.

The latest example of this - for me - is the old, larger EL38, compared to the later CV450-type design...chalk and cheese, _construction_-wise (the oldie proving much more temperamental while I try to adapt it!!). And such things as glass envelope, better internal supports, pins, soldering etc. are much superior on the later tubes... which will probably mean a longer, more reliable life. _However_, the oldie does have the edge _sound_-wise, which does seem to be the case so often with our glass wonders.

And so my advice to those who are interested in this wonderful tube is to seek out the later design first - as shown in the first EL38/CV450 posts here - and _then_, perhaps, give the old ones a look...if you can find them lol! But one thing's for sure...they're_ *all*_ performers that will astound you in our amps...no question!! ...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Dec 11, 2018)

Can you imagine?  Some kind of mistake about my delivery address in the U.S. (probably mine, area code)  and USPS is wandering around with my FOUR  NOS EL38s for weeks.  From here to there,  no delivery.  They are already in Florida...and this is the one parcel that by no means can be lost.

The address is quite easy to get  right, I mean, correct street, house numbers, even phone number, wrong  area code, piece of cake for any postman...but  no human being is involved here.  Had to fill a claim with the precise area codes...

About my plan to test the four EL38s as power tubes in my power amp, before Euforia, yes, I am taking advantage  from H1s splendid discovery of the EL38s for Euforia, (as triodes) but this is our hobby, isn’t it ?   Regarding  those power pentodes, no further comment...better keep them available


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Can you imagine?  Some kind of mistake about my delivery address in the U.S. (probably mine, area code)  and USPS is wandering around with my FOUR  NOS EL38s for weeks.  From here to there,  no delivery.  They are already in Florida...and this is the one parcel that by no means can be lost.
> 
> The address is quite easy to get  right, I mean, correct street, house numbers, even phone number, wrong  area code, piece of cake for any postman...but  no human being is involved here.  Had to fill a claim with the precise area codes...
> 
> About my plan to test the four EL38s as power tubes in my power amp, before Euforia, yes, I am taking advantage  from H1s splendid discovery of the EL38s for Euforia, (as triodes) but this is our hobby, isn’t it ?   Regarding  those power pentodes, no further comment...better keep them available



Hey J, that sounds like a horror story gone wrong lol!! . I can only hope with all my heart they soon find their way to you...it doesn't bear thinking about that you might not get them! So we must stay positive and optimistic....

And further to my trial(s!!!) of the older, large 'balloon' EL38, I must admit it is driving me a bit loopy! As I touched on before, this is definitely not so sturdy as the later version (that you're waiting for!). My first 'unused' tube certainly hasn't liked surgery - one minute it's fine, the next a final bit of pin soldering and...horrendous distortion! The same result after inspection and resoldering... looks like an internal problem and therefore inoperable, alas . The second tube - one of the 'grotty' ones I revamped - shows very mild microphonics. And although can't be heard while music is playing, that's not a very good sign...

And so my best hopes lie with the last remaining tube, which at the moment is performing brilliantly in my test adapter. So much so in fact that while turning up the volume a bit on Loreena McKennitt's 'Caravanserai' from An Ancient Muse, I heard something that almost had me heaving an 'Oh no, not again' sigh...but on relisten was actually a previously not noticed sound on the track lol!!...phew!! 

Thus..._if_ one is fortunate enough to find a trouble-free old tube (preferably with black plates, it would appear), then it would indeed be a worthwhile addition...especially as even just one as company in the power slot brings a nice little extra to the table ...

Good luck once again with your own parcel of (more reliable!) magic, J...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Johnny sound so sorry to hear about your difficulties with the mail service. I have a similar problem up here there is a house three blocks from mine it has the same house number but it's on a cross street with a different name and a different zip code and the postal Department many times will deliver my mail to this person and that person to mine because they are just going by the house number itself that is human error that's not machine made. That's the stupidity of some of the mail carriers that we have here. Fortunately after this started happening I got together with that homeowner exchange phone numbers so if we get a package or mail we just call the other up to come and get what belongs to them instead of throwing out their mail tried putting it in the mailbox to be read delivered and then usually come right back here the next day stupidity. Hopefully you will get your tube soon and joined the ranks of the El 38 group that is just on cloud nine with their purchases


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, just a quick update on the 'oldie', large 'balloon' EL38.

The third tube I mentioned is performing so brilliantly even in my makeshift adapter that I shan't tempt fate once more, and therefore _not_ undergo major surgery on it lol! Sounding this good already - and with no microphonics - I shall instead upgrade the adapter with some solid UP-OCC silver wire to accompany the copper already used.

Can't take any chances with this tube, because although I said previously it (even just one) might be 'a good addition' in combination with the later version, I shall now amend that to...you *must* *try* *and get one*...it's _that_ good!...(one with *black* plates, at least...don't know about the greys...). GOOD LUCK! folks...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I will keep an eye out for one, but so far yours are the only ones I have seen.  Glad to hear it is working out for you.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I will keep an eye out for one, but so far yours are the only ones I have seen.  Glad to hear it is working out for you.



Thanks cf...upgrading the adapter was more of a workup than I thought, but I was at least able to gain direct access to the tube's top anode wire, courtesy of a loose top cap. So I thought, why not lol?!...especially as it's only _minor_ surgery... by comparison! 

And these 'oldies' may well be 'goldies', but boy, are  they delicate creatures...although this last tube isn't microphonic, on start up it makes the sort of crackling noise that usually has one racing for the off switch. Luckily, however, it only lasts a few seconds then the usual total silence (with no music playing, that is!! ) and nothing untoward afterwards. Haven't had that one before, so it'll be interesting to see if it disappears in the next few days...
But despite all, the trials and tribulations have been well worth it..._I think!!_

By contrast, none of the 8 later tubes I've performed major surgery on has so much as made a murmur...so as the old saying goes : "You pays your money and takes your choice" lol! .
Whatever - and _whichever_ - these EL38s continue to way outperform _any and all_ previous tubes...conventional or otherwise...tremendous...


----------



## aqsw

Just wondering if anybody has an extra nos Mullard el38 they would like to sell.  I bought three from a seller here in Canada. That's all he had. I'm trying to find another one close, but they are as hard to find as unicorns. 

If I am using a pair only, they would be best as powers I presume?


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Just wondering if anybody has an extra nos Mullard el38 they would like to sell.  I bought three from a seller here in Canada. That's all he had. I'm trying to find another one close, but they are as hard to find as unicorns.
> 
> If I am using a pair only, they would be best as powers I presume?



Hi aqsw...might well be able to help...PM me?

And yes indeed...with just 2, best as powers (especially with EL32 drivers lol!). But 4x 38s are the _*real deal!!*_ ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Dec 15, 2018)

Still waiting for the EL38s...called USPS and they promised to help...I have an account with them and automatic messages that keep me informed about the whereabouts of the package,  amazing, it goes from here to there but never arrives.  I only beg for an old fashioned human postman that will get the proper address in five seconds.   It looks like the label has some line transposed, along with a wrong zip code,  so the machines can’t read it properly. 

In the meantime, (as a therapy to combat the stress)  I will retake my old hobby of cable making, this time with my version of an “all out assault” on pure silver, state of the art wires (inspired by H1s faith on this type of cables).  Three pairs of cables: one balanced to SE, two SE, 1.25 meter each, with Mundorf pure silver/gold alloy conductors, (around 30 AWG) Teflon tubing, and gorgeous Furutech silver plated plugs, that I selected because they are “solder free” and wide enough for the design.  I settled for a three conductor cable: one positive and two return in a loose helical geometry, unshielded.  The conductors go freely into the Teflon in an “air dielectric” path.  Double silver returns may look kind of overkill,  but I feel that this design will offer better shielding, noise rejection and overall definition...we’ll see !!  Anyway, this is not a dirty solder job, but a white glove affair.  Not easy, even taking  the shiny conductors from their perfect, oxygen free package makes me nervous.  Inserting that delicate silver wires into the Teflon tubes is critical...you know, teflon tubing is nasty, it bends the way it wants, so your wires must bend with it in perfect harmony.  Avoid kinks at all costs... will ruin your cable.  I am laughing at myself for going to this extremes in the quest for good sound...having already excellent cables,  but who knows ?


----------



## connieflyer

Well I hope you keep a record of the travels with those tubes oh, it sounds like your tubes could have their own diary maybe even a screenplay someday! Its funny in a way how do you post office has to rely on machine readers so much. Way Way Back in 1962 I was overseas and wrote a letter to a young lady that I had met when I was home on leave I knew where she lived and What street but I did not have her house number. So I wrote out what I had and then drew a little map with little boxes for their houses and marked off the cross streets how many blocks down from the major intersection on the envelope and some kind-hearted postal employee took the time to figure out where it went she actually got it! Nowadays it seems like the postal employees won't bother redelivering mail if it's sorted wrong. I wish you all the luck getting those tubes by time you get them they will really be vintage tubes! Good job I need new cables, they sound like they're going to be really great and I hope they work better than what you anticipate. Take care of Johnny sound


----------



## hypnos1

[*QUOT*E="Johnnysound, post: 14659669, member: 364938"]Still waiting for the EL38s...called USPS and they promised to help...I have an account with them and automatic messages that keep me informed about the whereabouts of the package,  amazing, it goes from here to there but never arrives.  I only beg for an old fashioned human postman that will get the proper address in five seconds.   It looks like the label has some line transposed, along with a wrong zip code,  so the machines can’t read it properly.

In the meantime, (as a therapy to combat the stress)  I will retake my old hobby of cable making, this time with my version of an “all out assault” on pure silver, state of the art wires (inspired by H1s faith on this type of cables).  Three pairs of cables: one balanced to SE, two SE, 1.25 meter each, with Mundorf pure silver/gold alloy conductors, (around 30 AWG) Teflon tubing, and gorgeous Furutech silver plated plugs, that I selected because they are “solder free” and wide enough for the design.  I settled for a three conductor cable: one positive and two return in a loose helical geometry, unshielded.  The conductors go freely into the Teflon in an “air dielectric” path.  Double silver returns may look kind of overkill,  but I feel that this design will offer better shielding, noise rejection and overall definition...we’ll see !!  Anyway, this is not a dirty solder job, but a white glove affair.  Not easy, even taking  the shiny conductors from their perfect, oxygen free package makes me nervous.  Inserting that delicate silver wires into the Teflon tubes is critical...you know, teflon tubing is nasty, it bends the way it wants, so your wires must bend with it in perfect harmony.  Avoid kinks at all costs... will ruin your cable.  I am laughing at myself for going to this extremes in the quest for good sound...having already excellent cables,  but who knows ?[/QUOTE]

Hi J. Methinks by now I'd be tearing out what's left of my hair lol! ...hope yours is still intact!! . And hope they do in fact reach you safe and sound very soon...

But making cables will indeed be a good distraction...so long as you manage not to bend that wire too much!! I notice you're using that nice Mundorf wire...but it doesn't seem to be *single crystal OCC wire lol?!!*...(which I have to admit I found outperformed 99.99% pure silver, albeit a good bit more expensive! ). I do hope your efforts are really worthwhile...I'm sure they will be lol...

So fingers crossed for you...on all counts...CHEERS!...CJ


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## aqsw (Dec 16, 2018)

Just wondering about the superglue method on the EL38s.

Just stick superglue in the adapter cap and stick on tube?

I guess I should test the tubes first before I go the permanent method.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> Well I hope you keep a record of the travels with those tubes oh, it sounds like your tubes could have their own diary maybe even a screenplay someday! Its funny in a way how do you post office has to rely on machine readers so much. Way Way Back in 1962 I was overseas and wrote a letter to a young lady that I had met when I was home on leave I knew where she lived and What street but I did not have her house number. So I wrote out what I had and then drew a little map with little boxes for their houses and marked off the cross streets how many blocks down from the major intersection on the envelope and some kind-hearted postal employee took the time to figure out where it went she actually got it! Nowadays it seems like the postal employees won't bother redelivering mail if it's sorted wrong. I wish you all the luck getting those tubes by time you get them they will really be vintage tubes! Good job I need new cables, they sound like they're going to be really great and I hope they work better than what you anticipate. Take care of Johnny sound



That's awesome, CF!!   I ordered something from China...it got all the way to my post office, a mere couple of miles away, they marked it "incomplete address, deliverable" and sent it all the way back to flippin' China!!   Why don't we have an email address associated with all snail mail items, to circumvent this very problem?


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## hypnos1 (Dec 16, 2018)

aqsw said:


> Just wondering about the superglue method on the EL38s.
> 
> Just stick superglue in the adapter cap and stick on tube?
> 
> I guess I should test the tubes first before I go the permanent method.



Hi aqsw....just a quick clarification before I hit the hay lol.

Past reference to superglueing the top cap was *only* *to secure the tube's metal cap* to the glass, as insurance against said cap coming loose, or to in fact re-adhere it if already loose. So just a little glue run around the base of this cap should do the trick. The same goes for where the tube's _base_ meets the glass of the tube.

You do *not* want to permanently stick the _adapter_ cap to the tube's metal cap lol!! . If the adapter cap connection should ever work a bit loose, its internal metal connector can easily be prised back to make a tighter fit and therefore improve the connection.


----------



## aqsw

Got it, thanks


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## hypnos1 (Dec 17, 2018)

That's good @aqsw ...a simple job, but one that could save awful trouble later on! ...as ZRW0 discovered alas!...

Mind you, these NOS later design (CV450-type) EL38s are really well made, and should be good for many more years...but better safe than sorry lol......and which is more than be said for the earlier 'balloon' version, I'm afraid. Two of my original 3 are now dead, and the third crackles just slightly on startup but then disappears..._for now!_
It was always obvious that Mullard did a marvellous job of making them more reliable/sturdy later on...no doubt as a requirement for the military CV450 variant, which also assisted the civvy street EL38 of course .

Having said that, for the short time I was able to hear two 'oldies' in the power seat, they definitely had even more magic than the later ones...so undeterred, I've been searching high and low for some more of the 'temperamentals'. Needless to say, they are practically non-existent any more, which is a tragic shame..._but_, somehow I managed to find what could (hopefully!) prove to be just as good, if not even better...ie. Philips branded EL38s, in large, coated glass envelope. And joy of joys, with the ceramic post insulators as used in the later Mullard version, and its similar sibling  EL37...so it bodes well lol! ...will keep y'all informed (just hope they arrive _before_ Christmas!)....




(You can just see those ceramic insulators poking out near the top of the right tube especially...). Fingers crossed they were made to at least the same specification as the Mullard EL37, and better than their original 38...time will tell...


----------



## barontan2418 (Dec 18, 2018)

Now she is rocking.
Merry Xmas to all. Hope I'm OK bringing my Elise to the thread.


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## Scutey (Dec 18, 2018)

barontan2418 said:


> Now she is rocking.
> Merry Xmas to all. Hope I'm OK bringing my Elise to the thread.


Congratulations bt, nice set up you have!, hope you're enjoying those EL38's, the straight bottle CV1052's are very nice too, I know h1, myself and others will be interested to know how you get on with them in your Elise, enjoy! .


----------



## Scutey (Dec 18, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> That's good @aqsw ...a simple job, but one that could save awful trouble later on! ...as ZRW0 discovered alas!...
> 
> Mind you, these NOS later design (CV450-type) EL38s are really well made, and should be good for many more years...but better safe than sorry lol......and which is more than be said for the earlier 'balloon' version, I'm afraid. Two of my original 3 are now dead, and the third crackles just slightly on startup but then disappears..._for now!_
> It was always obvious that Mullard did a marvellous job of making them more reliable/sturdy later on...no doubt as a requirement for the military CV450 variant, which also assisted the civvy street EL38 of course .
> ...


Ha!, you beat me to those h1!, I've been huffing and puffing on buying those for the last couple weeks, he who hesitates is lost eh! .


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Congratulations bt, nice set up you have!, hope you're enjoying those EL38's, the straight bottle CV1052's are very nice too, I know h1, myself and others will be interested to know how you get on with them in your Elise, enjoy! .


Thanks Scutey. Looking forward to contributing. This and Elise are great threads, very informative and more importantly friendly .


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Now she is rocking.
> Merry Xmas to all. Hope I'm OK bringing my Elise to the thread.





barontan2418 said:


> Thanks Scutey. Looking forward to contributing. This and Elise are great threads, very informative and more importantly friendly .



Hi barontan2418....and welcome to _both_ threads. Sister amps shouldn't really be apart lol! . Especially as I'm quite sure the two are closer than ever, with EL38s in place!! 

We're all looking forward to your own opinions also...and on anything related - or otherwise! It all helps to keep the 'informative and friendly' atmosphere on the right path...

And Scutey's right, of course...I, and others, are especially keen to see how the EL38 fares in Elise, not only Euforia. It sounds like you're already enjoying their combination with the CV1052 (straight-sided)...and it will only get much better yet with further burn-in (of both tubes and adapters)...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. I do hope you manage at some time to stretch to 4x EL38s...the magic just continues to grow lol .


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Thanks Scutey. Looking forward to contributing. This and Elise are great threads, very informative and more importantly friendly .


Always good to have new blood barontan2418, these two threads are very informative, invaluable even, and, as you say, friendly! .


----------



## Scutey

H1, seeing as there was only one pair left of those Philips large coated glass EL38 tubes  left so I thought I'd give them a try, will be interesting to see who gets em first!. Also, along those also managed to get hold of another 4x NOS Mullard EL38, that should be me set up for life now!..


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Ha!, you beat me to those h1!, I've been huffing and puffing on buying those for the last couple weeks, he who hesitates is lost eh! .



Oh dear, Scutey mon ami...I never suspected anyone else had spied these tubes hiding away on ebay lol!! ...(The same seller who has 2 NOS Mazdas at too high a price, and another pair of Philips at 100% reading?). I too was humming and harring quite a while, but gave into temptation ...sorry!).

I might just have splashed out on those Mazdas, but don't yet know if these tubes have _black_ plates or grey...it does seem that the blacks could be more appealing, and therefore better performing. All I know so far is that the black-plated old Mullards definitely have the edge over the later 'pretty' ones! I'm keeping everything crossed that they arrive before Christmas, so I can see how they perform and let folks here know smartish the good news...or the _bad!!
_
Speaking of good news, I'm happy(?!!) to say that the men in white suits may well be knocking on my door for a third time lol...just as I thought these EL38s couldn't surprise me any more_, _after all the hours I've put on them, I had yet another manic/confused grin on my face today. Now that my new UP-OCC wires on the last remaining, functioning 'oldie' 38 have burned in some more (couldn't play safe and stick with my adapter, I'm afraid!), I am in total awe of these tubes all over again...viz. firstly, the placement of individual instruments/effects within the holographic soundstage. Just as I was becoming accustomed to hearing them with better separation and positioning, suddenly some of them appear in a slightly different location!...???...hmmmm....
Then I realise that nothing is actually amiss, and that they have in fact been even _more _accurately placed than before...a wondrous surprise indeed, and one that could possibly delay said knock on the door!! . 

And secondly, there's an 'ooh' moment immediately I put on the headphones - more than previously even - and for which there isn't an obvious, objective reason. Just a feeling that something extra special is happening.
Now, this could well be down to the older tube sitting as one of the powers, or simply a gift of further burn-in all round. So I suspect it will need further confirmation from whichever lucky soul manages to also find at least one black-plated, earlier 38!! (But with the proviso that perhaps not all systems may be able to share the same level of resolution...).

But whatever, I say to all who have the enterprise to give the EL38 a try...WELL DONE!...Not only is this tube manna from Heaven for our amps, I'm quite sure it is so _without_ having to go the route of _multiples_ whatsoever lol! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> H1, seeing as there was only one pair left of those Philips large coated glass EL38 tubes  left so I thought I'd give them a try, will be interesting to see who gets em first!. Also, along those also managed to get hold of another 4x NOS Mullard EL38, that should be me set up for life now!..



Aah Scutey...another poor soul who can't resist temptation lol!...WELL DONE! And another 4 NOS Mullards? You are indeed set up for eternity...(even if you go for a Euforia lol!! ).

Looks like we'll both now be keeping fingers crossed that these Philips perform at least as well as the old Mullards! But as I mentioned previously, the fact they have those ceramic post insulators - which my old Mullards didn't - is highly encouraging. And they will truly be a wonderful Christmas present to ourselves if they do indeed also have... *black plates!!!*...

So an early *MERRY CHRISTMAS* to you, as to @barontan2418 and *ALL *fellow Feliks-Audio fans...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Just a heads up.  I purchased a pair of NOS Mullard El38 tubes from seller french-drawer, from France, a couple of weeks ago, and mentioned him here that he said he had four more pair available. When my tubes arrived, they were not Mullard, they were Haltron, made by Mullard.  I contacted him about it and he said he shipped those by mistake, and he could not find the Mullard's in his large inventory. Also sold to one other member here.  He now has a pair of Haltron's up for sale on Ebay for $65.  I asked for an adjustment and never heard back from him. Just to let you know my experience with him.  Shipping is expensive but fast. However, since his answers make me question what kind of service I would get from him if I got a bad tube, I will not buy from him again.


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi barontan2418....and welcome to _both_ threads. Sister amps shouldn't really be apart lol! . Especially as I'm quite sure the two are closer than ever, with EL38s in place!!
> 
> We're all looking forward to your own opinions also...and on anything related - or otherwise! It all helps to keep the 'informative and friendly' atmosphere on the right path...
> 
> ...


Two more NOS EL38's plus adapters in the post as we speak + 2 coke bottle EL 32's just to see if they make any improvement over the straight ones.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Two more NOS EL38's plus adapters in the post as we speak + 2 coke bottle EL 32's just to see if they make any improvement over the straight ones.


Nice one barontan, sounds like you're becoming a fully paid up member of the EL38'ters! , as for the coke bottle EL32 I've found they have a little more weight than the straight bottle, but overall there's not a massive difference, one thing though, and as h1 said to me, if you think 2x EL38 are good wait to you here 4x EL38 .


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Oh dear, Scutey mon ami...I never suspected anyone else had spied these tubes hiding away on ebay lol!! ...(The same seller who has 2 NOS Mazdas at too high a price, and another pair of Philips at 100% reading?). I too was humming and harring quite a while, but gave into temptation ...sorry!).





hypnos1 said:


> Aah Scutey...another poor soul who can't resist temptation lol!...WELL DONE! And another 4 NOS Mullards? You are indeed set up for eternity...(even if you go for a Euforia lol!! ).
> 
> Looks like we'll both now be keeping fingers crossed that these Philips perform at least as well as the old Mullards! But as I mentioned previously, the fact they have those ceramic post insulators - which my old Mullards didn't - is highly encouraging. And they will truly be a wonderful Christmas present to ourselves if they do indeed also have... *black plates!!!*...
> 
> So an early *MERRY CHRISTMAS* to you, as to @barontan2418 and *ALL *fellow Feliks-Audio fans...CHEERS!...CJ


H1, no nee to be sorry!, my fault for taking far too long, indecisive should be my middle name!, first come, first served! , anyway I finally, after a little jolt!, I did finally gave into temptation with those Philips EL38, what can I say I'm just a weak soul who can't say no!. Also if those tubes are black plates, that will definitely be a second Christmas pressie, as I already have a pair of Massdrop HD 6XX on the way as well, to compliment my DT 1990's, can't wait to hear how they sound with the EL38's whispering sweet nothings through them!. .


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Just a heads up.  I purchased a pair of NOS Mullard El38 tubes from seller french-drawer, from France, a couple of weeks ago, and mentioned him here that he said he had four more pair available. When my tubes arrived, they were not Mullard, they were Haltron, made by Mullard.  I contacted him about it and he said he shipped those by mistake, and he could not find the Mullard's in his large inventory. Also sold to one other member here.  He now has a pair of Haltron's up for sale on Ebay for $65.  I asked for an adjustment and never heard back from him. Just to let you know my experience with him.  Shipping is expensive but fast. However, since his answers make me question what kind of service I would get from him if I got a bad tube, I will not buy from him again.


Thanks for putting that out cf, it's worth knowing. One French seller that I've had positive experience of is cotatel1, ordered 1 EL32, asked if he had anymore, anyway he found another 1 sold the two for a very reasonable price in pristine condition, minus that rather pricey postage you mentioned, anyway, if you see him selling EL38's he might be a more reliable source.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just a heads up.  I purchased a pair of NOS Mullard El38 tubes from seller french-drawer, from France, a couple of weeks ago, and mentioned him here that he said he had four more pair available. When my tubes arrived, they were not Mullard, they were Haltron, made by Mullard.  I contacted him about it and he said he shipped those by mistake, and he could not find the Mullard's in his large inventory. Also sold to one other member here.  He now has a pair of Haltron's up for sale on Ebay for $65.  I asked for an adjustment and never heard back from him. Just to let you know my experience with him.  Shipping is expensive but fast. However, since his answers make me question what kind of service I would get from him if I got a bad tube, I will not buy from him again.



Hi cf...that sort of thing sure does have you wondering about a seller lol 

But at least the silver lining to the cloud is that with those Haltron-branded Mullards being NOS, you're pretty well guaranteed trouble-free bliss...they really are extremely well constructed, no? ...Now you too are set up for life, it looks like...LUCKY YOU! ...(There's a good few of us here been visited (early) by Santa, it would appear! ...CHEERS!...).


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Two more NOS EL38's plus adapters in the post as we speak + 2 coke bottle EL 32's just to see if they make any improvement over the straight ones.



I echo @Scutey 's words...but will add that once you hear what 4x EL38s can do, I doubt you'll ever want to go back to _anything_ ever again lol! ...


----------



## connieflyer

Yes h, with four pair I think I am all set for El 38. I don't want to go crazy because every time I do I stock up on these great tubes and then I end up with 6 or 8 or 10 and then move on to the next best thing! But I really believe I know I've said that before, that these are going to be the best that my system can you use. Especially seeing as how those balloon El 3/8 are so hard to find, I find myself using my time searching the internet for more profitable items things that I could use more of like junk food!


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## hypnos1 (Dec 19, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Yes h, with four pair I think I am all set for El 38. I don't want to go crazy because every time I do I stock up on these great tubes and then I end up with 6 or 8 or 10 and then move on to the next best thing! But I really believe I know I've said that before, that these are going to be the best that my system can you use. Especially seeing as how those balloon El 3/8 are so hard to find, I find myself using my time searching the internet for more profitable items things that I could use more of like junk food!



Aaahhh cf, you're not alone having drawersful of tubes...the price of curiosity re. the 'next' rave tube lol! ...and for which I plead guilty on all counts for fostering mercilessly these past few years!! .
But I like to think of it as a (slow!) progression, leading to the _ultimate (yes!!)_ discovery of the EL38...a tube that no-one would ever have thought (including me!) could bring such magic to Euforia - and Elise. For me at least, all the long trials, tribulations, controversy, and _expense_ (plus a good few headaches along the way) have been worthwhile just for this moment alone. And I personally can at last no longer feel any need whatsoever to try any other tube ever again...as far as I'm concerned, these EL38s - in our amps - cover all areas FAR better than any you care to name...at _any_ price lol!! .

However, mon ami, I wouldn't give up on trying to ferret out one (or two!) of the old style 38s...never mind _food_!! And just to whet the appetite (or rub it in even more!!), I shall just update my previous words re. the 'special magic' I enjoyed yesterday....ie. it *was* indeed down to the oldie in the power slot. Why?...'cos today I recreated it - but even _more_ so - by being able to resurrect the second 'balloon' long enough to once again see what's what lol. It still crackles worryingly on startup, along with other occasional strange noises, such that it may well not be safe for long use and can qualify for refund, but with constant monitoring it might be OK until the Philips pair arrives...(thank goodness I have a spare pair of T1s just in case ...yeah, I must be crazy!!).

Anyway, the upshot is that with 2 of these oldies doing power duties, they do indeed bring something extra to the table...and even more so doubled up than I described previously with just one.
My initial concern that there might in fact be _too_ much bass for my liking was totally unfounded, thankfully. What I _am _getting - in my own system at least - is not just a tad extra _depth_ but, more importantly, better _differentiation _between multiple sources of low bass in the same recording... rather than merging, as is so often the case. This quality, along with other more subtle ones I have already mentioned before, combine to bring that extra 'magic' I spoke of....over and above that which comes from long burn-in.

And so, @Scutey ...and whoever else snaffled those rather expensive, but nice-looking NOS Mazdas (c'mon, _*own up!!*_ said lucky one..), we are all going to be slightly(?!) disappointed if those non-Mullard-painted oldies don't match up!!! (Of _course_ they will, says he...).

And just as a point of interest, I think I may have discovered why they do sound a bit different/better than the later incarnation. While doing _major_ open heart surgery/autopsy on that second tube, in the vain hope of finding a poor solder joint - or worse, touching wires inside the base(!) - I noticed that _*all*_ the wires were copper, and of a very good gauge...some of the later tube's _not_ copper, and slightly thinner. Plus, the internal copper anode wire of the oldie runs_ directly _from the plate up to the top cap, whereas in the later version there's first an upright (not copper) from the plate, _then_ a piece of copper wire to the top. In my view, these 2 differences alone could easily explain performance difference...I personally have found that even relatively short lengths of wire _*can and do*_ make differences...notably in highly resolving setups. I have noticed this even when just adding OCC silver wire to the copper in my tube adapting...it is _*not*_ 'all in the mind' lol!!

Whatever, my own end game (at last!!) will be 2x CV450s driving 2x earlier, 'balloon' shape, internally coated EL38s as powers...full stop!! (But _please_ don't ask me to try _four_ oldies...at that I draw the line!!! )....CHEERS! everyone...and BFN...(thank God, I hear sighed......)...Oh, nearly forgot...a picture to give one _several _nightmares?!! 




But at least you can see those rather nice copper wires used lol!!


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, I must admit I am still looking for the balloon tubes, just have not seen any, I check ebay, USA and England sites, should probably try to find other ebay sites as well.  Found an El38 Bugle Boy that no one was bidding on so I put a bid in, I think it was only $5 so no harm if I get it, and not worried if I don't.  But an advice on other Ebay sites to check for the balloon tubes? I check individual stores as well, but only found one tube that was a balloon and it was not an EL38.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Okay, I must admit I am still looking for the balloon tubes, just have not seen any, I check ebay, USA and England sites, should probably try to find other ebay sites as well.  Found an El38 Bugle Boy that no one was bidding on so I put a bid in, I think it was only $5 so no harm if I get it, and not worried if I don't.  But an advice on other Ebay sites to check for the balloon tubes? I check individual stores as well, but only found one tube that was a balloon and it was not an EL38.



GOOD MAN cf!...keep looking...

But yes, I suspect these oldies will be _extremely_ difficult to find. I myself only found those Philips tubes via a listing on ebay.pl (Poland!) for some tubes on ebay.fr (France). There was no sign of them on either .uk or .com. So one really does have to do an extensive search lol! But rarities do sometimes turn up unexpectedly...testing one's patience and perseverance in the process......GOOD LUCK!...and g'night for now...(time for just a little more _special _magic before zzzzzzz - if that 2nd darned tube hasn't blown my cans, that is!! )...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Hi h1, those Mazda tubes, not guilty, at least not this time! . Like cf and yourself, I've been scouring the web for those coated balloon black plates, and like both of you, I've not seen so much as a sniff anywhere, but I'm sure if we are patient they'll surface somewhere, just a case of who gets to em first!.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, those Mazda tubes, not guilty, at least not this time! . Like cf and yourself, I've been scouring the web for those coated balloon black plates, and like both of you, I've not seen so much as a sniff anywhere, but I'm sure if we are patient they'll surface somewhere, just a case of who gets to em first!.



Not you, Scutey?...then I wonder _who_ lol!!  With 34 of MrsX's adapters now sold, there must be a few folks out there keeping quiet at the moment....we'd love to hear from you! 

I must admit I was _sorely_ tempted by those NOS Mazdas...and if these 'alternative'(?) Mullards do indeed have black plates, I'm probably gonna cry in my coffee...a missed opportunity indeed alas . Ah well, at least we both managed to get a pair of Philips ones...I do hope they arrive in the next day or two. But then I'm probably gonna cry either way - if grey plates, 'cos they ain't black...if black, 'cos I missed the Mazdas...sob, sob, sob...is there no end to the torture in this tubed hobby of ours lol?!!! ...As Donkey in Shrek would say : "*I need a hug!*...CHEERS...CJ


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## Scutey

34 adapters sold?, as you say, there's got to be a few lurking out there looking for EL38 tubes, maybe one or two will show themselves. My Philips tubes are on their way, hopefully they might arrive before Christmas, an early pressie, keeping my fingers crossed they're black plates, perhaps!, as for this tube rolling lark, h1, I think you, and I, and others!, are in a deep tube rolling hole with the escape ladder pulled up me thinks! .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 20, 2018)

Scutey said:


> 34 adapters sold?, as you say, there's got to be a few lurking out there looking for EL38 tubes, maybe one or two will show themselves. My Philips tubes are on their way, hopefully they might arrive before Christmas, an early pressie, keeping my fingers crossed they're black plates, perhaps!, as for this tube rolling lark, h1, I think you, and I, and others!, are in a deep tube rolling hole with the escape ladder pulled up me thinks! .



Yo Scutey...that ol' rabbit hole has had me - and a good few others - trapped for a _very_ long time now lol! . All I can say is...*Thank the Almighty for the EL38!* ...and Mullard, of course! For the first time in years, I _truly_ believe that darned hole is well and truly *filled in* (with me _outside!_)...and boy, does it feel _*good!*_ ...

ps. According to tracking info, my Philips tubes arrived here in the UK just after midnight today, so with any luck my own early pressie should be here soon...to say I'm trembling with anticipation is an understatement lol! ...I do hope yours reach you before Christmas also, S...CHEERS! ...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Dec 21, 2018)

Right then guys, not ever being happy when something is 'extra' special and not knowing _precisely_ why - as per my recent musings - I just couldn't resist keep running the gauntlet with the second dodgy old EL38 also in place astonished:!!), to try and fathom out just what was bringing that extra-wide grin to my face...and your word 'purity', @Scutey ,sums it up nicely...along with their ability to dig even deeper and bring out further details that I never thought possible. That spotlessly 'clean' presentation is the most impressive quality I think I have ever encountered in the whole of these past 5 years of total addiction lol! ...and this applies to the entire, extended frequency range...from massed orchestral pieces to solo voice - both male and female. The vast tonal range of all these sources of musical sounds is delivered with such clarity and ease, it fair takes my breath away. And I'm noticing this envious ability also - nay, _especially_ - with the amazing range  of harmonics/overtones in plucked string instruments...notably acoustic metal-string guitar (_12_-string particularly). I'm hearing tones in Jim Croce's and Joan Baez's backing guitars I have never heard before, for example, and the sound is simply _delicious_...wonderfully so.

These earlier EL38s may be temperamental, but they're worth every frustrating moment lol! . Speaking of which, the one with just crackle at startup began to make other, microphonic-type noises during play.... Grabbing hold of the tube around its bottom seemed to clear them, so I tied a large rubber band around said part (no 'O' rings to hand) and..._voila_...no more nasties to spoil the magic (as yet!). In the past I swore I'd never bother with such things, and just dump any microphonic cuckoo...but this experience has changed my attitude _big_ time. But only if such a tube is very rare, and _far_ too good to give up on!! 

And so I repeat (once again!)...if ever you're lucky enough to stumble upon one or more of these rare beauties..._snap 'em up!!_...(even if you have to resort to silicone 'O' rings!). And if you _are_ so lucky, use them as powers driven by the later Mullard EL38/CV450.

ps. Re. the _black plate_ subject, I'm now wondering whether it is in fact this different anode coating (to the grey) that, partly, commands a higher price for the (black plate version) sibling EL37 - and by inference therefore meaning slightly better performance - or that it simply_ indicates_ the use of copper in all its wiring, as I mentioned before?...Yet another good reason for me to get even more excited about the imminent arrival lol!


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## connieflyer

Did the tubes arrive today? Have been searching French, Polish, England, and US sites but not one to be found. I was looking last night after midnight, a little tired, saw a quad of 38's cheap, jumped on them and before I pulled the trigger, I looked a little closer, and they were type 38! No more searching that late.


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## Scutey

Keeping my fingers crossed those Philips coated balloon tubes are black plates h1, the ones I have in the post certainly look the same as your incoming tubes, hoping mine might arrive by Monday, fingers crossed!, and hopefully!  I might be able to experience some of that extra black plate magic you describe so well, in the mean time I'll just continue to enjoy the grey plates which just seem to keep on improving.


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## DecentLevi (Dec 21, 2018)

Hey guys, still looking forward to trying the EL38's for the first time, it will probably be a few months until I can set up my rig again and for me, a final favorite combo can only be chosen after putting it through myriads of weird / unusual combos in either slot, HAha. I still have around 70 tubes from heyday years past... saving even my least favorite in case I need them on a new amp model.

Going by the unwavering gleam for these, it makes me wonder if these tubes' design just may warrant an unprecented re-manufacture. I would venture to say maybe enough time has elapsed that no trademark/design blueprints will be violated if somehow somebody can make a brand new replica of the EL38's... and maybe this shall be your destiny H1. Open up your own factory and go out like, perhaps Sam Walton.

Oh also this has been on my radar: I really want to see photos of your *ENTIRE* rig if possible CJ (H1)... one large shot in full HD glory showing your power conditioning, unique DAC + headphone interconnects, balloon tubes, etc. . It's a modest Christmas wish to see it...


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Did the tubes arrive today? Have been searching French, Polish, England, and US sites but not one to be found. I was looking last night after midnight, a little tired, saw a quad of 38's cheap, jumped on them and before I pulled the trigger, I looked a little closer, and they were type 38! No more searching that late.



Not yet here alas, cf...but at least it's looking like they may well be here tomorrow (Sat.)...fingers _and_ toes crossed (plus anything else I can possibly reach lol! ).
And yeah, it always pays to scrutinise ebay listings _very_ closely...a good few folks have unknowingly come a cropper, no?! And it does indeed look like these earlier 'balloon' 38s are gonna be _extremely_ hard to find alas......(which always seems to be the case as soon as I find a gem!! ). But keep looking, mon ami...



Scutey said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed those Philips coated balloon tubes are black plates h1, the ones I have in the post certainly look the same as your incoming tubes, hoping mine might arrive by Monday, fingers crossed!, and hopefully!  I might be able to experience some of that extra black plate magic you describe so well, in the mean time I'll just continue to enjoy the grey plates which just seem to keep on improving.



Yo S...your tubes must be the same as mine, it looks like...and it would be rather strange if they didn't use the same black plates as Mullards...(that's what I keep telling myself anyway lol!!).
But whatever, those later grey-plated Mullards do indeed keep improving to a level that should bring my manic grin to _any_ face!! ...
ps. If you get your tubes before I do, you and I just _might  _fall out! ...(See what this darned hobby can do to us poor souls?!! ). Still, if even just one of us gets 'em before Christmas, I shall count said lucky one _very_ fortunate indeed......so _bring it on!!_...



DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys, still looking forward to trying the EL38's for the first time, it will probably be a few months until I can set up my rig again and for me, a final favorite combo can only be chosen after putting it through myriads of weird / unusual combos in either slot, HAha. I still have around 70 tubes from heyday years past... saving even my least favorite in case I need them on a new amp model.
> 
> Going by the unwavering gleam for these, it makes me wonder if these tubes' design just may warrant an unprecented re-manufacture. I would venture to say maybe enough time has elapsed that no trademark/design blueprints will be violated if somehow somebody can make a brand new replica of the EL38's... and maybe this shall be your destiny H1. Open up your own factory and go out like, perhaps Sam Walton.
> 
> Oh also this has been on my radar: I really want to see photos of your *ENTIRE* rig if possible CJ (H1)... one large shot in full HD glory showing your power conditioning, unique DAC + headphone interconnects, balloon tubes, etc. . It's a modest Christmas wish to see it...



Hey DL...the thought of having to wait months yet before sampling the joys of these EL38s is harrowing indeed lol...get you home for a break if you possibly can!! 

As for modern copy cat re-issues, it seems they hardly ever anywhere near match the originals, so I shan't even consider the idea I'm afraid!!  And perhaps a stash of them might just appear one day?...we can only hope so. But I doubt this will ever happen with the earlier, coated 'balloon' version, sad to say 

Single shot of my entire setup, DL? Will certainly try to oblige, but might have to be piecemeal to see everything clearly lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well it looks like I got outbid on the Bugle Boy, now up to $10.49! Oh well, I did not need it, just thought it more like a novelty. The tube construction looked like Mullard, so should be good tube for someone. Price is right at this level.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 21, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Well it looks like I got outbid on the Bugle Boy, now up to $10.49! Oh well, I did not need it, just thought it more like a novelty. The tube construction looked like Mullard, so should be good tube for someone. Price is right at this level.



That sure is a good price for a Mullard EL38...if in good condition lol . I went for a cheap £10) used one on ebay UK, and the plate looks like crazy paving...not even gonna bother plugging it in! So I advise anyone going for used ones to try and make sure the coating on the plate is nice and _*even!!
*_
Anyway ol' friend, am glad to say....*MY (OLD) PHILIPS EL38s ARRIVED TODAY!!!...YIPEE!....
*
And @Scutey , you'll be glad to know..._*they have black plates*_. The glass envelope is not as large as the old Mullard, but all bodes well :

1. It has those nice ceramic post insulators I spoke of.
2. It also has the *gold* grid wires of the later version, which the old Mullard doesn't.
3. It does in fact look *much* more like the black-plated EL3*7* sibling (apart from the silver paint job), which commands upwards of $150 *each!*

OK, so how does it sound? Well first off, no crackle or hint of microphonics...just deathly silent background...*nice!* And as I can only use one at the moment - the second will have to wait 'til I can adapt it after Christmas - I won't be able to give a full and proper assessment just yet. But at least at the moment, it's already (after just a few minutes) sounding darned good partnering a 'balloon' Mullard. So things are looking rosy lol ...

Just a couple of pics for now, comparing the old Philips with a Mullard. Plus - to keep @DecentLevi happy(! ) - a not-very-good I'm afraid shot of my rack (that just needs some better plinths for the main gear!!), and one showing the basis of my interconnectsksc75smile....




Philips to the left, Mullard to the right...



From top to bottom : Euforia, with T1s connected internally(!)
                                   The other half's multi-CD player 
                                   Diminutive Chord Hugo2, next to Naim UnitiCore Server/Player with built-in SSD drive etc.
                                   Vincent SV121 integrated amp
                                   Harman Kardon AVR surround receiver
                                   AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner w/Advanced Filter System
                                   PowerInspired Mains Regenerator (which feeds the ASF3000 - both giving a nice slow-startup to power everything).

Which leaves another important part of the system..._the interconnects!_....:



This amazing cable is Neotech's XLR version that has *3* conductors, each having gauges 22, 24 and 26 of UP-OCC solid silver. I used *2* conductors for signal, _plus_ some solid UP-OCC copper wire; and added some extra silver to the remaining one - plus copper again - for the return. And one for each channel, of course...so a beast of a cable! ...but sure gives WOW performance (and would cost a fortune _if_ you could find one just the same commercially lol ).....CHEERS!....CJ...(better go see how the Philips is coming along....a *MERRY, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!* ). And I hope you all have just as nice a Christmas pressie lol......).


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> That sure is a good price for a Mullard EL38...if in good condition lol . I went for a cheap £10) used one on ebay UK, and the plate looks like crazy paving...not even gonna bother plugging it in! So I advise anyone going for used ones to try and make sure the coating on the plate is nice and _*even!!
> *_
> Anyway ol' friend, am glad to say....*MY (OLD) PHILIPS EL38s ARRIVED TODAY!!!...YIPEE!....
> *
> ...


That's great to hear h1, certainly promising that my incoming could be black plates as well, wont hurt to keep me fingers crossed though!, hopefully I will find out tomorrow or Monday, they've passed through customs this morning, the quicker they arrive the better.

ps that's a mightily impressive rig you have there, not jealous... much! .


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> That's great to hear h1, certainly promising that my incoming could be black plates as well, wont hurt to keep me fingers crossed though!, hopefully I will find out tomorrow or Monday, they've passed through customs this morning, the quicker they arrive the better.
> 
> ps that's a mightily impressive rig you have there, not jealous... much! .



Yo S...I don't see any reason at all why your own Philips shouldn't have black plates. I must admit I did chuckle slightly when I saw them, and then some more when I saw those gold grids glinting in the torchlight lol! . And after cleaning everything with white spirit (avoiding the printing) - including the pins which, luckily, only needed finishing off with fine emery paper to look as good as new, these tubes do in fact inspire more confidence than the old Mullard balloons.

And with a couple of hours' warming up nicely, I can either heighten your anticipatory _excitement - or_ increase your waiting _anxiety_/_frustration_! - by letting you know that these babies are easily _at least_ as good as the old Mullards, and with even just the one at the moment (without direct access to the top anode wire yet!), I'm hearing even _more_ impressive bass just for starters. Another short session now before shut-eye, and I hope to put my finger on other tantalising extras...so stay tuned lol!! 

I do hope your own tubes arrive before Christmas...can't wait to hear what you make of 'em...

ps. Both mine had slightly loose bases, so I suggest glueing them down some more before cleaning, along with the top metal caps of course!

And yes, the rest of my gear does add up to one heck of a lot more than the amp - possibly a bit OTT even!! - but all I can say is that I'm quite sure it has - especially along with the EL38s - helped take Euforia to a level that even the Feliks family would find hard to believe....I know _I _can't!! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## Scutey

That's great to hear h1, you're wetting my appetite!, with any luck mine might arrive later today , they do look a little grotty (mine), so I have my white spirit, cloth and cotton buds ready for a good ol clean up!.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 22, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> [*QUOT*E="Johnnysound, post: 14659669, member: 364938"]Still waiting for the EL38s...called USPS and they promised to help...I have an account with them and automatic messages that keep me informed about the whereabouts of the package,  amazing, it goes from here to there but never arrives.  I only beg for an old fashioned human postman that will get the proper address in five seconds.   It looks like the label has some line transposed, along with a wrong zip code,  so the machines can’t read it properly.
> 
> In the meantime, (as a therapy to combat the stress)  I will retake my old hobby of cable making, this time with my version of an “all out assault” on pure silver, state of the art wires (inspired by H1s faith on this type of cables).  Three pairs of cables: one balanced to SE, two SE, 1.25 meter each, with Mundorf pure silver/gold alloy conductors, (around 30 AWG) Teflon tubing, and gorgeous Furutech silver plated plugs, that I selected because they are “solder free” and wide enough for the design.  I settled for a three conductor cable: one positive and two return in a loose helical geometry, unshielded.  The conductors go freely into the Teflon in an “air dielectric” path.  Double silver returns may look kind of overkill,  but I feel that this design will offer better shielding, noise rejection and overall definition...we’ll see !!  Anyway, this is not a dirty solder job, but a white glove affair.  Not easy, even taking  the shiny conductors from their perfect, oxygen free package makes me nervous.  Inserting that delicate silver wires into the Teflon tubes is critical...you know, teflon tubing is nasty, it bends the way it wants, so your wires must bend with it in perfect harmony.  Avoid kinks at all costs... will ruin your cable.  I am laughing at myself for going to this extremes in the quest for good sound...having already excellent cables,  but who knows ?



Hi J. Methinks by now I'd be tearing out what's left of my hair lol! ...hope yours is still intact!! . And hope they do in fact reach you safe and sound very soon...

But making cables will indeed be a good distraction...so long as you manage not to bend that wire too much!! I notice you're using that nice Mundorf wire...but it doesn't seem to be *single crystal OCC wire lol?!!*...(which I have to admit I found outperformed 99.99% pure silver, albeit a good bit more expensive! ). I do hope your efforts are really worthwhile...I'm sure they will be lol...

So fingers crossed for you...on all counts...CHEERS!...CJ[/QUOTE]

Many thanks H1 for your support in my ordeal ! (LOL)...the EL38s traveled around half of the world and returned to England.  Now they are on their way  again.  What a pounding !   I assume they are well packed,  and even if not,  feel confident that will arrive in good shape...because these tubes look VERY strongly built.  Made to withstand SERIOUS abuse.   This is no cheap, commercial stuff.

Regarding the cable project, single crystal OCC wire is highly desirable, of course, but for silver conductors there  is another school of tought proposing the sonic virtues of soft annealed, “stress free” silver wire, (not unlike OCC) ...Mundorf adds a tiny bit of gold to the mix, a wise move, since silver naturally blends  with gold, and the resulting alloy is  stable, inmune to oxidation, and above all more “bendable” than pure silver... you know what I mean.  Pure silver, solid core wire is ok. for short runs, but for a full interconnect, made from scratch,  is a real pain in the As##% !!

Family and friends are visiting for the holidays...no way to do it until January.  About ten people...luckily, I managed to get a  beach house in Panama pacific coast, big enough...

Merry Christmas to all and best wishes in the new year !!


----------



## Oskari

connieflyer said:


> Well it looks like I got outbid on the Bugle Boy, now up to $10.49! Oh well, I did not need it, just thought it more like a novelty. The tube construction looked like Mullard, so should be good tube for someone. Price is right at this level.


It does have Mullard Blackburn code. Quite interesting that the type made it to the US.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 22, 2018)

Scutey said:


> That's great to hear h1, you're wetting my appetite!, with any luck mine might arrive later today , they do look a little grotty (mine), so I have my white spirit, cloth and cotton buds ready for a good ol clean up!.



Fingers crossed also they arrive today, or Monday, S...even though this Christmas lark is no doubt messing up your Elise time, as it is with me and my Euforia/EL38 precious moments lol! ...roll on New Year!! ...

And yes, these tubes from France certainly look a bit dirty/grotty, but clean up very nicely (hope yours don't have _too_ many gaps in that darned silver coating - which needs extra white spirit especially to clean!).
Also, these oldies - unlike the later, much more ruggedly constructed version - do seem to like giving one mini heart attacks!...viz. my second Philips decided to give the occasional slight crackle after playing a good while, and then settle down. Plus, it decided to give me another flutter this morning on startup...just like the Mullard balloons . But fortunately, it too disappeared after a couple of seconds.... And as I listen to Genesis and 'Duke' (good for hitting/training them with plenty of treble!) they have a - thankfully - deathly silent background once more .

But fear not...the old Mullard that had even worse crackle on startup is now totally crackle-free, so it would appear to be a case of old tubes 'waking up' and needing a fair bit of playing to settle down properly......(and even the one that I was taking a big gamble with seems to be a bit happier...at the moment lol! ).

Hopefully yours will be less temperamental, but don't be too concerned if you encounter early _slight_ crackling...it's well worth waiting for them to behave!! . And don't forget to glue down those top caps and bases...they are very old creatures, after all!...

ps. After more 'Duke' tracks, I'm happy to report that my (secret!) initial concern that the enhanced bass from these tubes might be recessing the treble just a touch has now been allayed...a sweeter - but still full - treble you could not ask for. Just the ticket for this album especially lol! ).


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi J. Methinks by now I'd be tearing out what's left of my hair lol! ...hope yours is still intact!! . And hope they do in fact reach you safe and sound very soon...
> 
> But making cables will indeed be a good distraction...so long as you manage not to bend that wire too much!! I notice you're using that nice Mundorf wire...but it doesn't seem to be *single crystal OCC wire lol?!!*...(which I have to admit I found outperformed 99.99% pure silver, albeit a good bit more expensive! ). I do hope your efforts are really worthwhile...I'm sure they will be lol...
> 
> So fingers crossed for you...on all counts...CHEERS!...CJ



Many thanks H1 for your support in my ordeal ! (LOL)...the EL38s traveled around half of the world and returned to England.  Now they are on their way  again.  What a pounding !   I assume they are well packed,  and even if not,  feel confident that will arrive in good shape...because these tubes look VERY strongly built.  Made to withstand SERIOUS abuse.   This is no cheap, commercial stuff.

Regarding the cable project, single crystal OCC wire is highly desirable, of course, but for silver conductors there  is another school of tought proposing the sonic virtues of soft annealed, “stress free” silver wire, (not unlike OCC) ...Mundorf adds a tiny bit of gold to the mix, a wise move, since silver naturally blends  with gold, and the resulting alloy is  stable, inmune to oxidation, and above all more “bendable” than pure silver... you know what I mean.  Pure silver, solid core wire is ok. for short runs, but for a full interconnect, made from scratch,  is a real pain in the As##% !!

Family and friends are visiting for the holidays...no way to do it until January.  About ten people...luckily, I managed to get a  beach house in Panama pacific coast, big enough...

Merry Christmas to all and best wishes in the new year !![/QUOTE]

Hey J...sounds like another version of 'A Nightmare before Christmas' (Tim Burton's wonderful animation film, that those who haven't yet seen simply _must_ put right ASAP lol!!). I feel so sorry for you, and can only hope you have much better luck second time around . And yes, thank goodness they're the much stronger later version - dread to think what these earlier tubes would finally arrive as...heartbreaking, I should imagine .

And yes again, before OCC wire I always used soft-annealed pure silver...which does indeed bend at the slightest touch alas! (which is why I always used the thickest gauge I could afford...as now with the amazing UP-OCC version ...). I notice Neotech do a silver plus gold wire using OCC silver, but it's _stranded_  and I'm a _solid_ lover myself! 

Christmas in a Panama Pacific Coastal beach house?...sounds just wonderful, J...hope you all have a great time...MERRY CHRISTMAS! and a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too...


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Fingers crossed also they arrive today, or Monday, S...even though this Christmas lark is no doubt messing up your Elise time, as it is with me and my Euforia/EL38 precious moments lol! ...roll on New Year!! ...
> 
> And yes, these tubes from France certainly look a bit dirty/grotty, but clean up very nicely (hope yours don't have _too_ many gaps in that darned silver coating - which needs extra white spirit especially to clean!).
> Also, these oldies - unlike the later, much more ruggedly constructed version - do seem to like giving one mini heart attacks!...viz. my second Philips decided to give the occasional slight crackle after playing a good while, and then settle down. Plus, it decided to give me another flutter this morning on startup...just like the Mullard balloons . But fortunately, it too disappeared after a couple of seconds.... And as I listen to Genesis and 'Duke' (good for hitting/training them with plenty of treble!) they have a - thankfully - deathly silent background once more .
> ...


Good to hear those temperamental oldies are finally settling down for you h1, they sound like curmudgeonly old men! lol. My tubes didn't arrive today so it looks like Monday at the earliest, still keeping my fingers crossed!, and hopefully when they do arrive they won't play up too much, fortunately I've got used to the coughing and spluttering of old tubes waking up after a long sleep, I also have all my gear ready for cleaning, scraping, gluing etc, must admit I do like a clean tube!. 

ps you're right, I haven't had as much time for the Elise as I would like, this time of year there never seems to be enough hours in the day, and never enough for listening to glorious old tubes, fortunately just a few more days to go and we can get down to some serious tube action again! .


----------



## cfranchi

Hello all,

I will certainly get a 2nd hand Euforia or a brand new Echo, as it is a blind buy and the first time I get a dedicated amp, I need some inputs.

My headphone is a Kennerton Vali and a Beyer T1.2 is on my list, my DAC is a Chord Mojo.

How the amp would improve the signal of the Mojo ?

My headphones sensitivity is more than 100db, so is an amp really needed ?

Those tube amps are really tempting, but will I really notice a superior listening experience compared to the Mojo which has already plenty of power ?


----------



## connieflyer

I have no experience with the Kennerton headphones, so went to Headphonics and read their review of these.  It sounds like these should be a very nice set.  One thing, it is rated at 32 ohms and that is a little on the low side, for tube amps,  but would work with the Euforia or Elise. As far as looking for a T1.2 phone, with what you have I would not bother.  It looks like yours are a better fit with what you have. The Mojo, is decent and according to the Headphonics review "Chord Mojo

Volume red level.

Plenty of power on tap with the Mojo. The Mojo low-end with the Vali is planted, physical but not quite as warm sounding as the R6, a bit more neutral in timbre also with absolutely excellent levels of detail. The instrumental separation and quality of staging took a huge leap forward with the Mojo and even more so with the Hugo 2 for that matter. A much more refined delivery than the X7ii and more accurate sounding than the R6 and Opus#2."Now a tube amp like the Feliks would give you a little boost in the instrument separation and impact, over what you have.  It is not a cheap alternative, so make sure what direction you want to go in.  If you are mainly interested in a desk top, home use, tube amps are great.  I have been using them in one iteration or another for years and prefer them to solid state.  I use mine with the Senn 800 and like the combination quite well.  I don't know how much research you have done on amps, but I would make sure which direction you want to persue.  Personally, I would pass on the T1.2 and spend more on an amp. If you have a good solid base, you can always roll tubes, and purchase different phones as you want. Now this is just my personal advice. Others will have a different take on this, so it is just one consideration. Good luck


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> It does have Mullard Blackburn code. Quite interesting that the type made it to the US.



Hi O...and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you...(nice to see you popping in lol ).

Interesting indeed that this EL38 seems to be appreciated in the States...but the prices usually asked for seem rather OTT! . Which makes one going for around $10 or so an absolute steal...if in good condition. But I must admit, these tubes are *so* good, it's worth every penny spending more for NOS IMHO......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

The tube just sold for only $29 shipping was inexpensive as well. Just shows that there are some decent prices on these tubes out there oh, you just have to take the time to look. I would have pursued the tube if I needed more than hate that I have.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 24, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Good to hear those temperamental oldies are finally settling down for you h1, they sound like curmudgeonly old men! lol. My tubes didn't arrive today so it looks like Monday at the earliest, still keeping my fingers crossed!, and hopefully when they do arrive they won't play up too much, fortunately I've got used to the coughing and spluttering of old tubes waking up after a long sleep, I also have all my gear ready for cleaning, scraping, gluing etc, must admit I do like a clean tube!.
> 
> ps you're right, I haven't had as much time for the Elise as I would like, this time of year there never seems to be enough hours in the day, and never enough for listening to glorious old tubes, fortunately just a few more days to go and we can get down to some serious tube action again! .



Hi S..._temperamental_ is hardly the word for these earlier versions - _frustrating_ is more like it lol!! . That Philips from France that was settling down nicely after just a brief bit of startup crackle has now decided to crackle _and_ squeak constantly at the moment!! ...not good for my already fast disappearing hair! . My only solace is that the Mullard that was similarly cursed is now behaving wonderfully, so fingers crossed once again!...(will get it on the operating table and put the fear of God into it!! ). Either that may do the trick, or perhaps a few more on/offs will work the magic.

No wonder Mullard did a major rework of this tube...all 11 of those I tried behaved impeccably...not the slightest hint of any noise whatsoever!! ...(there could be a moral there somewhere!).

But having said that, to tell the truth I'm not _too_ worried if it doesn't play ball...the fault-free Philips/good Mullard oldie combo (as powers), driven by a pair of CV450s is now sounding so sublime I just don't want to take them out..._ever!!_ I simply cannot believe that used (old) tubes would continue to improve as they have done these past few days, over and above new wire burn-in. These earlier 38s are digging so much deeper into the music that many of my well-worn test tracks almost sound like different (remastered!) recordings. I simply can't keep up with how they're managing to do it.
And even more so than the later version, they don't just deliver wonderfully at low volume levels, but when crescendos come that previously had me reaching for the vol knob, I can stay put and enjoy a tsunami of sound without my ears screaming lol!

So all in all, I'm more than happy to lose a bit more of my hair lol! ...(but still hope that darned second Philips settles down..._again!_).

ps. Hope your own pair of Philips arrive first post-Christmas delivery (it would appear!)...and that they don't turn out to be fickle mistresses!! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

pps. Re. old, used tubes, I suspect that their need also for good burn-in may well be due to the fact that they probably only handled a fraction of the FR that today's hi-Q gear can deliver, and so need to be 'conditioned' almost as much as NOS tubes...??...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> The tube just sold for only $29 shipping was inexpensive as well. Just shows that there are some decent prices on these tubes out there oh, you just have to take the time to look. I would have pursued the tube if I needed more than hate that I have.



Yo cf...but don't know how much longer those decent prices will stay around alas! . I can only urge folks once more to get their own supply ASAP...this kind of leap in performance is unlikely to arise ever again...*full stop!!*...(unless some other intrepid addict is prepared to go searching and adapting newcomers...*'cos it won't be me lol!!!*...)....MERRY CHRISTMAS!...


----------



## Scutey

The Philips coated EL38's arrive today h1, and,from what I can tell,  they look identical to yours, ceramic grid posts and black plates! yes!!, and they look better in the flesh than in the pics, and, phew, dead silent!, only had them on for short time but they do sound fantastic, and the bass, as you've said, is even better than the grey plates, deeper, and at least as detailed and defined, these really sound like they're the cherry on top of the cake! .


 
And to you, h1, and everyone else in Euforia/Elsie land,* hope you all have a very happy Christmas and a peaceful new year! .*


----------



## Scutey (Dec 24, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S..._temperamental_ is hardly the word for these earlier versions - _frustrating_ is more like it lol!! . That Philips from France that was settling down nicely after just a brief bit of startup crackle has now decided to crackle _and_ squeak constantly at the moment!! ...not good for my already fast disappearing hair! . My only solace is that the Mullard that was similarly cursed is now behaving wonderfully, so fingers crossed once again!...(will get it on the operating table and put the fear of God into it!! ). Either that may do the trick, or perhaps a few more on/offs will work the magic.
> 
> No wonder Mullard did a major rework of this tube...all 11 of those I tried behaved impeccably...not the slightest hint of any noise whatsoever!! ...(there could be a moral there somewhere!).
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you're still having trouble, maybe they will_ eventually_ settle down, I keep my fingers crossed!. Have to say I thought my Philips might be temperamental too, I couldn't wait to clean them so popped them in, after a warm up there was a bit of tinkling, nothing major though, then gave them a good clean and put them back in and... a hum!, have to say my heart sank but after 2 hours they are now dead silent! yippee!.


----------



## hypnos1

cfranchi said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I will certainly get a 2nd hand Euforia or a brand new Echo, as it is a blind buy and the first time I get a dedicated amp, I need some inputs.
> 
> ...



Hi cfranchi, and welcome to the thread.

Difficult decisions indeed...*as always!*... At the end of the day, it depends on how deep the wallet is, of course, and just how far into _serious_ music listening you want to go. I, like a good few others, have spent quite a bit of money gradually upgrading equipment as we've developed a thirst for something better...and thereby lost a good few $$££ in the process! If you do indeed have a fair interest in quality sound reproduction, I can only recommend that you invest in the best equipment you can afford - it will turn out cheaper in the end lol!! . To that end, I'm therefore bound to recommend going for the Euforia, if you can afford it...it is an extremely good - and flexible - amp.

And yes, it will take your Mojo to a whole new level...and I personally much prefer what it does for my Hugo2 over its own HP output, very impressive though it is!...(especially now with the EL38s in place...there's no comparison IMHO).

And given I simply love the sound that's now coming from my T1(v1, but with my own DIY replacement cable), I personally would advise giving the Beyers a listen first if you can...assuming you go for Euforia, that is! .

Good luck with whatever you choose...at the end of the day, it must depend upon what your ears like best...remembering that like good wine, as your palate develops, things can start getting a bit pricey lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Sorry to hear you're still having trouble, maybe they will_ eventually_ settle down, I keep my fingers crossed!. Have to say I thought my Philips might be temperamental too, I couldn't wait to clean them so popped them in, after a warm up there was a bit of tinkling, nothing major though, then gave them a good clean and put them back in and... a hum!, have to say my heart sank but after 2 hours they are now dead silent! yippee!.



PHEW, S...am glad things seem to have settled down nicely...a wonderful Christmas present for you! And as I mentioned just now, I'm sure they'll get even better after a few days (even though it doesn't seem possible at first lol!)....ENJOY!!...CJ...(time for a scrub, methinks...BFN!...and MERRY CHRISTMAS once more...).


----------



## OctavianH

Very nice "Merry Christmas" indeed. Nice photo posted yesterday by FA on Facebook.


----------



## connieflyer (Dec 25, 2018)

Had the same thoughts, nice photo, checked their website, did not see this one


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O...and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you...(nice to see you popping in lol ).


Merry Christmas CJ and everybody.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Very nice "Merry Christmas" indeed. Nice photo posted yesterday by FA on Facebook.


Merry Christmas O, and everyone, not seen that one before.


----------



## OctavianH

Best wishes from me as well. I am not a religious person but I always find Christmas as a good time for a break and also for self evaluation. For me these days of winter are always the perfect time for long listening sessions, so Elise is a real blessing for me during these times.


----------



## cfranchi

connieflyer said:


> I have no experience with the Kennerton headphones, so went to Headphonics and read their review of these.  It sounds like these should be a very nice set.  One thing, it is rated at 32 ohms and that is a little on the low side, for tube amps,  but would work with the Euforia or Elise. As far as looking for a T1.2 phone, with what you have I would not bother.  It looks like yours are a better fit with what you have. The Mojo, is decent and according to the Headphonics review "Chord Mojo
> 
> Volume red level.
> 
> Plenty of power on tap with the Mojo. The Mojo low-end with the Vali is planted, physical but not quite as warm sounding as the R6, a bit more neutral in timbre also with absolutely excellent levels of detail. The instrumental separation and quality of staging took a huge leap forward with the Mojo and even more so with the Hugo 2 for that matter. A much more refined delivery than the X7ii and more accurate sounding than the R6 and Opus#2."Now a tube amp like the Feliks would give you a little boost in the instrument separation and impact, over what you have.  It is not a cheap alternative, so make sure what direction you want to go in.  If you are mainly interested in a desk top, home use, tube amps are great.  I have been using them in one iteration or another for years and prefer them to solid state.  I use mine with the Senn 800 and like the combination quite well.  I don't know how much research you have done on amps, but I would make sure which direction you want to persue.  Personally, I would pass on the T1.2 and spend more on an amp. If you have a good solid base, you can always roll tubes, and purchase different phones as you want. Now this is just my personal advice. Others will have a different take on this, so it is just one consideration. Good luck



Thanks for your answer

As you presumed, I’m interested for home use only.

What I expect from the Euforia is to push my Vali to the limits and enjoy an even more beautiful sound.

For the T1, it seems a magical pairing with Euforia, as reviewed at hifiphilosophy.com, I was fully agree with what this guy said about Vali and Amiron, so T1 is tempting as a complement of my Vali.


----------



## hypnos1

cfranchi said:


> Thanks for your answer
> 
> As you presumed, I’m interested for home use only.
> 
> ...



Hi cfranchi. 

If you are indeed lucky enough to bag a used Euforia, I guarantee you will not be disappointed! And as I mentioned before, my T1s just simply adore this amp...and vice versa lol!!


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 25, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Sorry to hear you're still having trouble, maybe they will_ eventually_ settle down, I keep my fingers crossed!. Have to say I thought my Philips might be temperamental too, I couldn't wait to clean them so popped them in, after a warm up there was a bit of tinkling, nothing major though, then gave them a good clean and put them back in and... a hum!, have to say my heart sank but after 2 hours they are now dead silent! yippee!.



Yo ho ho, S...yet another Christmas present for me today...that darned fickle second Philips EL38 - after a nice long break in solitary - is now behaving like a good'un lol!!..._worse_ than a mistress, I'd say!! (not that I have personal experience of such matters! ). Mind you, I suspect it is in fact down to something up either in the pin contacts, or base-related...'cos when I turned the loose base very slightly I could reproduce it (just as happened with a pair of VT231s a long while ago that also had loose bases). So hopefully, major surgery - ie cutting away some of the pin lengths (rather than trying to desolder) and removing the base; then ensuring no contact of the wires close to where they exit the tube's glass, and finally adapting with a new base - _should_ solve the problem...fingers crossed!
So it's possible that at some time in the future, I _might_ just be able to see what 4 of these oldies carrying out *all* duties sound like...as suggested to me by @connieflyer . But if I do, it'll only be for a short while, as I want to make sure I always have a spare pair for power duties only!!...(unless some more should appear by magic in the future?!!).

Hopefully your own fickle tube is still behaving itself, and coming along nicely......looking forward to your impressions with further burn-in...


----------



## cfranchi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cfranchi.
> 
> If you are indeed lucky enough to bag a used Euforia, I guarantee you will not be disappointed! And as I mentioned before, my T1s just simply adore this amp...and vice versa lol!!



Thank you!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Merry Christmas, all...

Finally got my Langrex cv1052's and adapters...seemed like an extra long wait.

Giving 4x cv1052's (EL32) a whirl in Elise.

1st impression is very good...sounds "professional"... 

Love the way they run so cold, yet sound this good.


----------



## barontan2418

Just bagged 10 Nos Mullard  CV 1052's for £19.99. I've managed to build up a small collection of EL38's and have one more coming from ebay, used but at £3.99 it's worth taking a chance. I can happily live with quad EL32's hence buying a batch of 10. I've yet to experience quad EL38's, still awaiting adapters 3 and 4. My present set-up of 2 x EL 32 drivers and 38's as powers is getting better by the day. As good as this setup is with the Elise I'm still expecting a Euforia upgrade in 2019.


----------



## JazzVinyl

barontan2418 said:


> Just bagged 10 Nos Mullard  CV 1052's for £19.99. I've managed to build up a small collection of EL38's and have one more coming from ebay, used but at £3.99 it's worth taking a chance. I can happily live with quad EL32's hence buying a batch of 10. I've yet to experience quad EL38's, still awaiting adapters 3 and 4. My present set-up of 2 x EL 32 drivers and 38's as powers is getting better by the day. As good as this setup is with the Elise I'm still expecting a Euforia upgrade in 2019.



Hello Baron...

Congrats on obtaining a quantity of quality tubes.

Can you elaborate on the difference you hear between a quad of el32 and "el32 as drivers / el38 as powers"...?

Appreciate!!


----------



## barontan2418

Hello JazzVinyl. Start by saying I found very little lacking with quad EL32's I just believe 38's add to the bass and the overall definition. I've spent the last several years listening to primarily Tung sol 5998's first with my B/head and recently with Elise and the whole EL jurney  is a bit of a revelation. Pity I spent a small fortune stocking up on 5998's before I heard of FA. Sorry I'm the worlds worst at describing how music sounds to me, probably why I post so infrequently.


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Hello JazzVinyl. Start by saying I found very little lacking with quad EL32's I just believe 38's add to the bass and the overall definition. I've spent the last several years listening to primarily Tung sol 5998's first with my B/head and recently with Elise and the whole EL jurney  is a bit of a revelation. Pity I spent a small fortune stocking up on 5998's before I heard of FA. Sorry I'm the worlds worst at describing how music sounds to me, probably why I post so infrequently.


Hi b2418,
The way prices keep climbing, it seems to me that you won't lose any money on your 5998 tubes should you decide to sell some......
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-5...=item5d844c0c20:g:IqcAAOSw84ZcCKbG:rk:34:pf:0
Only $425 for a pair of TS 5998.....


----------



## barontan2418

Hi mordy. Never went quite that high. I might well run the Euforia on recommended tubes (when I take the leap) I found the 5998 a did a good job in the Elise with the right drivers, so they won't sit idle.


----------



## JazzVinyl

barontan2418 said:


> Hi mordy. Never went quite that high. I might well run the Euforia on recommended tubes (when I take the leap) I found the 5998 a did a good job in the Elise with the right drivers, so they won't sit idle.



I certainly agree about how nice 5998's sound (I have a pair) but I will say these cool running EL tubes are attractive for use in Elise/Euphoria, because they run so nice and cool.  Heat buildup has always bedeviled this amp.  But seems like these EL32's and EL38's are the great sounding cure.

I ran a quad of EL32's last night for a few hours and the amp was absolutely cold!  That is a very good thing!!

Also thought the quad of EL32's sounded very nice.  Just a touch more sub bass was my only desire 

Cheers!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

The old gal...


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Just bagged 10 Nos Mullard  CV 1052's for £19.99. I've managed to build up a small collection of EL38's and have one more coming from ebay, used but at £3.99 it's worth taking a chance. I can happily live with quad EL32's hence buying a batch of 10. I've yet to experience quad EL38's, still awaiting adapters 3 and 4. My present set-up of 2 x EL 32 drivers and 38's as powers is getting better by the day. As good as this setup is with the Elise I'm still expecting a Euforia upgrade in 2019.


Hi @barontan2418, sounds like you're sorted for some time to come!. I've done the same thing as you, made sure I have a stash of EL 32's, and now 2 quads of EL38, just wait till you hear 4x EL38! .


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Yo ho ho, S...yet another Christmas present for me today...that darned fickle second Philips EL38 - after a nice long break in solitary - is now behaving like a good'un lol!!..._worse_ than a mistress, I'd say!! (not that I have personal experience of such matters! ). Mind you, I suspect it is in fact down to something up either in the pin contacts, or base-related...'cos when I turned the loose base very slightly I could reproduce it (just as happened with a pair of VT231s a long while ago that also had loose bases). So hopefully, major surgery - ie cutting away some of the pin lengths (rather than trying to desolder) and removing the base; then ensuring no contact of the wires close to where they exit the tube's glass, and finally adapting with a new base - _should_ solve the problem...fingers crossed!
> So it's possible that at some time in the future, I _might_ just be able to see what 4 of these oldies carrying out *all* duties sound like...as suggested to me by @connieflyer . But if I do, it'll only be for a short while, as I want to make sure I always have a spare pair for power duties only!!...(unless some more should appear by magic in the future?!!).
> 
> Hopefully your own fickle tube is still behaving itself, and coming along nicely......looking forward to your impressions with further burn-in...


Sounds like major surgery h1!, not sure I would have the courage to do that, but if you do good luck! .


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Hi @barontan2418, sounds like you're sorted for some time to come!. I've done the same thing as you, made sure I have a stash of EL 32's, and now 2 quads of EL38, just wait till you hear 4x EL38! .


This week all things being equal  my adapters should arrive. I still need 1x 38 to make my second quad. No rush it will turn up.


----------



## Madhyamika

Hello all! I’ve been reading this thread and the Elise thread as well for a year or so now as I was saving my pennies for an amp (I even went through and read all the posts from the beginning of both threads).   It seems like it was past time to actually register for the forum and say hello, and thank you to all of you - you have been so generous in sharing so much fantastic information as you have all been learning and experimenting with different tubes in these amazing amps. 

I got my own Elise several months back and have rolled through a variety of the standard tubes until falling in love with the EL12 Spez powers driven by EL32s. 

Then all the excitement started with the EL38s, so I’ve tracked down two quads and ordered my adapters from Mrs. X.  Adapters should be here by next week, and I am very excited to try these out as well. 

So the speculation has been correct that there are several of us out here who have been reading and learning and not saying anything. So here’s one more of the hidden ones revealed!  Thank you all for being such a great resource for those of us who are new to this marvelous hobby. 

Jay


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome Jay a great read just got better! It took a lot of doing to read both threads from start to finish, but that is one way to make sure that you're making all the right decisions. And I commend you for doing so. I hope you enjoy the El 38 as much as I do. I've used a quad of el 32 as well and I firmly believe using the Sennheiser 800 headphone e l 38 is superior. Feel free to add to this conversation with any information that you have and anything that you like or dislike about these things. We're not here just to say everything is wonderful if you find something that doesn't work for you let us know. Thanks for looking and thanks for joining the group


----------



## Scutey

Hi Jay, I'd like to echo cf and welcome you to these threads from me as well. Reading both Elise and Euforia threads right through is impressive, so well done to you. I read right through the Elise thread and found it utterly informative and invaluable. Also it's great to see another Elise owner going down the EL38 route, hope you enjoy em!, and, let us all know what you think, all input honestly given is valuable!.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Madhyamika said:


> So the speculation has been correct that there are several of us out here who have been reading and learning and not saying anything. So here’s one more of the hidden ones revealed!  Thank you all for being such a great resource for those of us who are new to this marvelous hobby.
> 
> Jay



Hello Jay!!

You should get a metal for all the thread surfing!

Welcome and congrats, sir.  Headed for EL38 land...thats pretty exciting!!

Cant wait to hear your impressions


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 27, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> Just a heads up.  I purchased a pair of NOS Mullard El38 tubes from seller french-drawer, from France, a couple of weeks ago, and mentioned him here that he said he had four more pair available. When my tubes arrived, they were not Mullard, they were Haltron, made by Mullard.  I contacted him about it and he said he shipped those by mistake, and he could not find the Mullard's in his large inventory. Also sold to one other member here.  He now has a pair of Haltron's up for sale on Ebay for $65.  I asked for an adjustment and never heard back from him. Just to let you know my experience with him.  Shipping is expensive but fast. However, since his answers make me question what kind of service I would get from him if I got a bad tube, I will not buy from him again.



@connieflyer  -  Did the EL38  Haltron (Mullard) tubes you bought from 'french-drawer' preform okay?


----------



## connieflyer

They do work fine. They are made by Mullard, I just wanted to do a heads up, as when someone misrepresents  the description,  draws in to question if he would stand behind his sales.


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> They do work fine. They are made by Mullard, I just wanted to do a heads up, as when someone misrepresents  the description,  draws in to question if he would stand behind his sales.



Completely understand.  I have ordered a quad from this fellow.  Hoping for good working tubes.  Saw your note just after ordering, of course


----------



## aqsw

Starting my EL38 journey today. Received my 4 adapters from Mrsx today. Put two 38s in as powers. Waiting for one more tube to complete my quad.


----------



## connieflyer

Hello asqw, how do you like your super dac?  I have looked at these, and wondered how well they do.  I am using a Schitt Gungnir multi-bit at present.  I am sure you will like the quad of El38's they really made my system much better.


----------



## aqsw

I love the dac . It kills the Hegel HD12 it replaced. Wonderful soundstage and a lot of air. Massive footprint though. Needs a lot of room.


----------



## connieflyer

Thank you I will keep this in mind. Have looked at their products in the past, footprint is on the large size, but for me it is all about the music, so that does not bother me.  I see they have some sales going on, nice to hear from a real person that has experience with their products.


----------



## connieflyer

I see that they also offer the option for El32  use.  That would be a plus as well.  Which model number  did you decide on?


----------



## Madhyamika

My thanks to everyone for making me feel so welcome! 

It was good timing for me to have said hello - just in time for my EL38 adapters to arrive in yesterday’s mail. I have a quad of yellow label Mullards that I started warming up last night and got in a bit of listening before bed - so far they are excellent! Started with a little bit of hum, but it was gone within an hour. Bass sounded a bit thick at first but started to balance and clear up within a few hours. Otherwise, they already sound as good or better than anything else I’ve ever tried, and they only have 3 hours on them. I’ll be giving them another few dozen hours of run-in before I form any firm opinions, but initial results are very exciting indeed!

Also, I too have a recently-acquired pair of Haltrons from French-Drawer - haven’t tried them yet, but if it helps easy any anxiety, I can at least report that they arrived well-packed and in beautiful condition.


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> I see that they also offer the option for El32  use.  That would be a plus as well.  Which model number  did you decide on?


I got the 24/192 super mk2 with K120 powers and dsd . If I did it over again I would not pay the extra for dsd. I haven't  used it in the two years I've had this dac. I am seriously considering one of their rectifier box upgrades. Have heard great things about them.


----------



## attmci

mordy said:


> Hi b2418,
> The way prices keep climbing, it seems to me that you won't lose any money on your 5998 tubes should you decide to sell some......
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-5...=item5d844c0c20:g:IqcAAOSw84ZcCKbG:rk:34:pf:0
> Only $425 for a pair of TS 5998.....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PIECE-TU...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720

<$100


----------



## DecentLevi

@JazzVinyl I was surprised to see you back in the tube rolling game, with your Elise. Is it my memory or didn't you move onto a bigger amp of some sort? Also it begs the question why did you sell me your 6x externally powered adapter if the best you've ever heard on it was the 6x 6BL7's?

@Madhyamika welcome! Ironically we're both from Sea-town, but I recon we're both not in Seattle proper right? Hey did you notice my posts earlier this summer that everyone was impressed with my Euforia I brought to a local meet? Let me know if you want the info. to join any local meet-ups there.

Hey anybody else notice a few errors in this meme? I found 2...


----------



## JazzVinyl (Dec 28, 2018)

DecentLevi said:


> @JazzVinyl I was surprised to see you back in the tube rolling game, with your Elise. Is it my memory or didn't you move onto a bigger amp of some sort? Also it begs the question why did you sell me your 6x externally powered adapter if the best you've ever heard on it was the 6x 6BL7's?



Hello DL...

Yes, I own more than one tube amp.  That other one employs a different Topology than the FA design and sounds very different.  Both amps can sound very good, but you might be surprised at how different they sound.

Sold the 6x externally heated rig, because that other amp does it natively, takes that concept further, sonically, and does not have heat buildup issues.

I am enjoying Elise with a  quad of EL32, and am surprised that it sounds this good yet remains this cool.  Thought I would see where a quad of EL38 would take it.   Again, as good as it sounds, it is quite different from the other amp. This amp is very laid back and polite, the other amps' forte is bold dynamics.

And BTW, I never got got into vinyl  because of its "expense and inconvience", I got in to vinyl, because long ago, it was a heck of a lot less expensive and a lot more convenient than reel to reel tapes.   

Cheers...


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi mordy. Never went quite that high. I might well run the Euforia on recommended tubes (when I take the leap) I found the 5998 a did a good job in the Elise with the right drivers, so they won't sit idle.



Hi barontan.

With the Euforia, I can safely say 4x EL38s will be your go-to tubes lol! . Just as you will find them continuing to surprise you in Elise with a good few hours on them, so Euforia is able to take even better advantage of their mastery in all areas..._including_ dynamics!! ...(Euforia upscales even further than Elise, _especially_ as one upgrades other elements in the system!).

And so, something to look forward to methinks......


----------



## hypnos1

Madhyamika said:


> Hello all! I’ve been reading this thread and the Elise thread as well for a year or so now as I was saving my pennies for an amp (I even went through and read all the posts from the beginning of both threads).   It seems like it was past time to actually register for the forum and say hello, and thank you to all of you - you have been so generous in sharing so much fantastic information as you have all been learning and experimenting with different tubes in these amazing amps.
> 
> I got my own Elise several months back and have rolled through a variety of the standard tubes until falling in love with the EL12 Spez powers driven by EL32s.
> 
> ...



Hi J...and a belated welcome to F-A land. 

You read _all_ the Elise and Euforia posts?...WOW!...you do indeed deserve a medal lol ...WELL DONE! But hopefully you will at least have gleaned further insight into not only tubes, but other related aspects also...

And glad you too enjoyed the extremely good EL12 Spezial...I never dreamt I'd find a tube to surpass this beauty!! . But the EL38 does so to a surprising degree. 

As you've found - just like all the EL family (in our amps especially) - they do need a fair while to really shine...especially for that incredible bass to solidify and develop fully. This element was the only real _slight_ weakness of the EL32, and at first can almost seem a little overwhelming...especially compared to anything that has gone before! I myself was a little concerned initially that it might just be too detrimental to the upper frequencies, but with further burn-in my concerns have vanished. I am therefore now addicted to bass in a way I never thought I would be!!

Also, I didn't think anything could surpass 2x EL32s driving 2x EL38s(CV450s), but 4x 38s certainly do!!...(in my own system anyway...and others' too, from the sound of it! ). 

ps. I also didn't think anything could surpass 4x CV450s, but 2 earlier, black plate, internally coated EL38s as powers bring even _more_ to the table...but I suspect one needs a _highly_ resolving system to really notice the differences...(but that's another story lol)...


----------



## DecentLevi

Interesting, JV that you still enjoy the Elise even with (a Glenn amp?), for a change of sonic flavor. I guess it's like having different headphones for a change of signature sometimes. And for dynamics, at least the Euforia is better than Elise with this, but not quite on the level of the priciest amps though.

And RE the audiophile meme above. I actually just meant it as a bit of humor, it was just something I found on Google images and I noticed a few errors like how the words "FLAC is better than MP3" appears under a photo of VINYL and how the rig shown is actually more than $3,500 when accounting for the headphones shown, HahAh


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Starting my EL38 journey today. Received my 4 adapters from Mrsx today. Put two 38s in as powers. Waiting for one more tube to complete my quad.



Hi aqsw.

Hope that tube arrives _real_ soon...can't wait to hear your own impressions of this tremendous quad combo. And I'm quite sure your lovely DAC will help Euforia + EL38s perform spectacularly lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @Scutey - and anyone else lucky (brave!!) enough to find the *Philips *earlier, black plate, internally coated EL38 - I'm glad (nay _relieved!_) to report that my crackling, squeaking tube now has _deathly_ silent background once more. 

I found that it was probably down to less-than-perfect connection at the tube's top anode cap...so if ever experiencing such noises, it is advisable to check that the adapter's top cap connector is a good and tight fit. As with all such top cap connections, the metal tab inside the adapter's cap can work loose with use and may need to be prised back to re-establish a tight fit...

In addition, I discovered that these Philips tubes, as opposed to the old Mullard design, have pin #3 connected to a piece of wire that runs around the outside of the tube's base...presumably for additional grounding purposes. Therefore, when I found twisting its slightly loose base helped reduce the crackle, this could possibly also be a source of 'fickle' behaviour lol!! I have in fact found that cutting off this pin had no detrimental effect whatsoever, so might be something to look at if the top cap connection doesn't solve any noise problem...(but you must, of course, be *certain* of locating pin #3 of the tube correctly, and it needs to be removed as close to the base as possible, either with a wire cutter or careful hacksawing/dremel cutting...please ask if advice is needed).

ps. Hope your humming tube is still behaving itself!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting, JV that you still enjoy the Elise even with (a Glenn amp?), for a change of sonic flavor. I guess it's like having different headphones for a change of signature sometimes. And for dynamics, at least the Euforia is better than Elise with this, but not quite on the level of the priciest amps though.



Hello DL,
Right-o...I don't believe in being visciously defensive of one brand over another.  Your assessment that a different amp being similar to the different sound signature of a different pairs of headphones, is a good one.  As for dynamics, there genres, and times, when a given listener, might  prefer, softer dynamics 

Cheers...


----------



## aqsw (Dec 28, 2018)

Twelve hours in with el38 powers. Definite hum since onset. Not dark yet.

It does sound spectacular though.

Definately the best the euforia has ever sounded.

Peter, Paul, and Mary sound fabulous.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Scutey - and anyone else lucky (brave!!) enough to find the *Philips *earlier, black plate, internally coated EL38 - I'm glad (nay _relieved!_) to report that my crackling, squeaking tube now has _deathly_ silent background once more.
> 
> I found that it was probably down to less-than-perfect connection at the tube's top anode cap...so if ever experiencing such noises, it is advisable to check that the adapter's top cap connector is a good and tight fit. As with all such top cap connections, the metal tab inside the adapter's cap can work loose with use and may need to be prised back to re-establish a tight fit...
> 
> ...


Good to hear you solved the crackling/squeaking h1, I guessed you'd eventually sort out the problem. Interesting find, re wire at the base, will bear this in mind if my Philips tubes become noisy, so thanks for the info h1! .


----------



## JazzVinyl

More hours on the quad of inexpensive NOS straight bottle EL32's and things are firming up.   Sounding good.

Absolutely amazed at the amp running for hours, and yet remains stone cold! Worth the price of admission, right there.


----------



## Madhyamika

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J...and a belated welcome to F-A land.
> 
> You read _all_ the Elise and Euforia posts?...WOW!...you do indeed deserve a medal lol ...WELL DONE! But hopefully you will at least have gleaned further insight into not only tubes, but other related aspects also...
> 
> ...



Thank you for the encouraging words! My decision to purchase my Elise was in large part due to your posts documenting your journey with Elise and Euforia and a plethora of tubes. 

I haven’t yet tried the 2xEL32 with 2xEl38 combo yet - perhaps I will at some point just for kicks, but first I’ll let the EL38 quad settle in. As they continue to run I notice bass is improving in refinement while still staying pleasingly strong.  

Getting bass just right is something I’m quite interested in - I’m a woodwind player (a whole different sort of tube!) who specializes in bass and contrabass reed instruments... AND I live with a professional bass player. Our friends sometimes worry that we may seismically trigger an eruption of Mt Rainier!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Madhyamika said:


> Thank you for the encouraging words! My decision to purchase my Elise was in large part due to your posts documenting your journey with Elise and Euforia and a plethora of tubes.
> 
> I haven’t yet tried the 2xEL32 with 2xEl38 combo yet - perhaps I will at some point just for kicks, but first I’ll let the EL38 quad settle in. As they continue to run I notice bass is improving in refinement while still staying pleasingly strong.
> 
> Getting bass just right is something I’m quite interested in - I’m a woodwind player (a whole different sort of tube!) who specializes in bass and contrabass reed instruments... AND I live with a professional bass player. Our friends sometimes worry that we may seismically trigger an eruption of Mt Rainier!



Very nice, Mady...

John Surman and his bass Clarinet is some of my absolute favorite music. 

I also admire solid bass, too.  I played some reeds as a young man, and have admired great players, all my life.   Very much looking forward to the quad of EL38's arriving and solidifying my 'bass desires' 

Cheers!!!!




.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 29, 2018)

aqsw said:


> Twelve hours in with el38 powers. Definite hum since onset. Not dark yet.
> 
> It does sound spectacular though.
> 
> ...



Hi aqsw.

Glad to hear you too are enjoying these amazing EL38s. But hum? Yours are the later Mullard CV450-type version, I believe...and NOS?... I don't think anyone else has encountered hum with these particular ones, and I myself have tested at least 11 of them, with not so much as a squeak lol!! 

Have you substituted for each one in turn to see if one is the culprit? If both, and it doesn't go with time, I suspect it could only be down to one of 3 things :

1. One (or both!) of your adapters aren't quite right.
2. You have some strong EMI/RFI interference somewhere in the vicinity, which might well require the ferrite choke trick over the adapter's anode wire, as per the EL12 Spezial.
3. Least likely...these tubes - in Euforia - perhaps somehow don't like being fed by another item of tubed gear, ie. your DAC of course. I myself sometimes had slight noise issue with my own amp when fed by my previous tube DAC...but only when the volume was turned up, admittedly, and depending upon which tubes were actually used in the DAC.

Whatever, I really do hope you manage to find and eradicate this hum, because it would be tragic if you found you couldn't do so lol! ...so...GOOD LUCK!!...CJ

ps. I never thought old Peter, Paul and Mary recordings could sound so good...vive Euforia (+ EL38s, of course!! ).


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> More hours on the quad of inexpensive NOS straight bottle EL32's and things are firming up.   Sounding good.
> 
> Absolutely amazed at the amp running for hours, and yet remains stone cold! Worth the price of admission, right there.



Yo JV...that these ridiculously cheap (later) versions of the EL32 can sound so good (in our amps) is truly wonderful. And the added bonus of components running so cool can only mean less chance of failure, and hence a more reliable amp and a longer life...in all probability lol! ...(even though the earlier heat issues in Elise, and the very first Euforia prototype have since been addressed ).

And if you like bass, you will certainly love the EL38s!!


----------



## hypnos1

Madhyamika said:


> Thank you for the encouraging words! My decision to purchase my Elise was in large part due to your posts documenting your journey with Elise and Euforia and a plethora of tubes.
> 
> I haven’t yet tried the 2xEL32 with 2xEl38 combo yet - perhaps I will at some point just for kicks, but first I’ll let the EL38 quad settle in. As they continue to run I notice bass is improving in refinement while still staying pleasingly strong.
> 
> Getting bass just right is something I’m quite interested in - I’m a woodwind player (a whole different sort of tube!) who specializes in bass and contrabass reed instruments... AND I live with a professional bass player. Our friends sometimes worry that we may seismically trigger an eruption of Mt Rainier!



Aah, M...reed player? I'm sure you will therefore be enjoying the wonderful tonal range of these EL38s as they continue to burn in lol! And you have reminded me I must search out some recordings of our late lamented David Munrow, and the Early Music Consort of London. Although many of these early instruments may not have the 'polish' and 'refinement' of later incarnations, they do have a magical sound all of their own, of course. As do the Eastern acoustic instruments used by more recent artists such as Loreena McKennitt, and which are sounding _truly _exotic now through my system.... 

Plus, I'm sure that enhanced bass will also continue to impress you after some more hours on these tubes...along with soundstage; precision; balance; instrument separation....etc. etc.!!


----------



## hypnos1

Well @Scutey , all I can say is that fortune does indeed favour the brave lol! . 

Your prompt action at snaffling those Philips EL38s on ebay(France) was a very smart move...with one of mine now fully adapted and the other in my (upgraded!) testing adapter, they even have the edge over the Mullard oldies...that themselves have the edge over the later CV450-type Mullards. I can understand why the black plate, coated sibling EL37 commands the highest price...there's normally good reason!! . That wonderful bass has even more complexity/range, and there's even more of that 'special' magic I spoke of previously, that almost defies description.

So I'm sure we've both been very lucky...(I would still like to know who bagged that lovely pair of NOS Mazdas...I'm _really_ kicking myself now!! But I think I might just console myself by grabbing that last single Philips, even though it's not such a good buy alas...).

Hope that humming tube is still silent!!


----------



## aqsw

Thanks H1.

Switched to the other pair of adapters.  Pitch black now.

Thanks


----------



## Scutey (Dec 29, 2018)

hypnos1 said:


> Well @Scutey , all I can say is that fortune does indeed favour the brave lol! .
> 
> Your prompt action at snaffling those Philips EL38s on ebay(France) was a very smart move...with one of mine now fully adapted and the other in my (upgraded!) testing adapter, they even have the edge over the Mullard oldies...that themselves have the edge over the later CV450-type Mullards. I can understand why the black plate, coated sibling EL37 commands the highest price...there's normally good reason!! . That wonderful bass has even more complexity/range, and there's even more of that 'special' magic I spoke of previously, that almost defies description.
> 
> ...


Hi h1. I think as far as the EL38 is concerned, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle!, the word got around pretty quickly!. I figured, I guess like you, that when they come up they're going to go pretty quickly, so I thought, no time like the present!, if I had not "snaffled"  those Philips black plates I'd be kicking myself, like you, sadly, are doing with those Mazda's lol, but as I'm sure you know that patience is a virtue, and that another pair of those Mazda's could surface at any time so don't be too despondent, hope springs eternal, and when you do find some I promise I won't be jealous! .

Good to hear you're getting on with those adapters as well, they sound wonderful in my system so I can only imagine what they sound like in yours!.

Also regarding the Philips black plates, along with you're CV450's this definitely is the best sounding combo and the bass is just sensational!, I've just been  listening to the soundtrack to Blade Runner 2049, if you've not heard it there are lots of very low notes, and a good tester for bass depth, all I can say is the bass was subterranean!, more than once my Beyer 1990's were massaging my ears!, for a combination of depth, tightness/impact, definition/detail and texture it was utterly mesmerising!, never have I heard bass go so low, wonderful! .

ps, also they're still silent! .


----------



## JazzVinyl

Quad of CV1052's in Elise..continue to improve.  Bass is larger, fuller, beautiful delicate velvet gloved treble, and massive details have arrived in the mids.  Feels like this amp was given a whole new lease on life....

.


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 31, 2018)

Scutey said:


> Hi h1. I think as far as the EL38 is concerned, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle!, the word got around pretty quickly!. I figured, I guess like you, that when they come up they're going to go pretty quickly, so I thought, no time like the present!, if I had not "snaffled"  those Philips black plates I'd be kicking myself, like you, sadly, are doing with those Mazda's lol, but as I'm sure you know that patience is a virtue, and that another pair of those Mazda's could surface at any time so don't be too despondent, hope springs eternal, and when you do find some I promise I won't be jealous! .
> 
> Good to hear you're getting on with those adapters as well, they sound wonderful in my system so I can only imagine what they sound like in yours!.
> 
> ...



Hi S...glad to hear your fickle tube is staying silent lol. These tubes' 'pitch black' background - as @aqsw would say - allows every last drop of goodness to shine through lol! 

This is always my dread when folks have to rely on 3rd party adapters that are, unfortunately, limited by commercial factors...the time and care needed when re-soldering new wires to different pins prevent me from making them in bulk for folks, alas (as with Glenn and his own amps)....not to mention the cost, when using the best wire!! And so, as with aqsw, cost-conscious adapters can sometimes be troublesome. But fortunately, most times they seem to be OK....even though they will undoubtedly be degrading the sound just a little - I personally notice even better performance by simply(?!!) gaining direct access to the tube's wires when adapting them, let alone using UP-OCC silver and copper wires, so I know this must be the case lol ...as below :


 
Drastic method! Much better when the top cap is loose lol!!                                       Old pins cut so new wires make contact with originals before soldering (bends in wire deliberate!!)

And so, now I've managed to adapt both Philips tubes (somehow avoiding disaster!), the final result looks like this...........:



And the sound? Well, all I can say is, even _more_ of the EL38's virtues I've espoused (at length! ) already!!  And, as also repeated ad nauseum, Euforia now sounds like a totally different amp...which leaves me (temporarily!) speechless ...so I'll say 'bye for now and grab my obligatory dose of caffeine....CHEERS!...and a *HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!...*CJ

ps. Does the hum return when you try the culprit adapters again @aqsw ? If so, I suppose that'll mean a long wait for replacements before you can sample the delights of 4x EL38s?..._*tragedy!!*_


----------



## connieflyer

A Happy New Year to all, and a wish for peace, (and the location of a large cache of El38 balloon tubes!). Having used the CV 1052's for over three hundred hours, they were a very good addition.  But with the addition of the El 38's, things have improved even more. Broad spectrum improvements from top to bottom.  Will not be needing to go back, as two quad of El 38's should last me.  Will put up the cv 1052's for sale, soon, no longer nos, but even better they are burned in! Saves hundreds of hours.  I just wanted to thank our fearless leader, Hypnos1, for all the work he has done on this thread, and others, to the benefit of us all. Without his leadership, we may never have experienced the beauty of Euforia, while always a good sounding amp, he has enabled us to take the amp to places we would not have thought to go. His endless curiostity trying to get everything that is possible out the amp is very commendable.  Who among us would have thought to try what he has, using different tubes not associated with the amp, to try to get just a little more performance from her.  And this last push, with the El 38 he has outdone himself. This is a quantum leap from the stock amp, although all the tube rolling was a little expensive, the hunt was fun.  And in the end, it probably saved me money, as now , I am happy to stick with this amp, and not search for a replacement.  So from all of us a very "WELL DONE SIR"


----------



## JazzVinyl

I hear ya CF on the betterment of EL38 versus EL32, hope to hear the EL38's in 2 or three weeks.

And yes, H1's ability to find tubes that increase SQ from the 6SN7/6AS7 cathode follower topology of the FA amp is truly remarkable. And agree, has been to everyone's benefit, since he unselfishly shares his expirence and knowledge!

Happy new year to all....may 2019 be the best year, yet.


----------



## Scutey (Dec 31, 2018)

connieflyer said:


> A Happy New Year to all, and a wish for peace, (and the location of a large cache of El38 balloon tubes!). Having used the CV 1052's for over three hundred hours, they were a very good addition.  But with the addition of the El 38's, things have improved even more. Broad spectrum improvements from top to bottom.  Will not be needing to go back, as two quad of El 38's should last me.  Will put up the cv 1052's for sale, soon, no longer nos, but even better they are burned in! Saves hundreds of hours.  I just wanted to thank our fearless leader, Hypnos1, for all the work he has done on this thread, and others, to the benefit of us all. Without his leadership, we may never have experienced the beauty of Euforia, while always a good sounding amp, he has enabled us to take the amp to places we would not have thought to go. His endless curiostity trying to get everything that is possible out the amp is very commendable.  Who among us would have thought to try what he has, using different tubes not associated with the amp, to try to get just a little more performance from her.  And this last push, with the El 38 he has outdone himself. This is a quantum leap from the stock amp, although all the tube rolling was a little expensive, the hunt was fun.  And in the end, it probably saved me money, as now , I am happy to stick with this amp, and not search for a replacement.  So from all of us a very "WELL DONE SIR"


Very well put cf, I can only agree with every word. H1's ability to sniff out new, better tubes and share his new finds with us all, and take delight in our joy of these tubes, his enthusiasm is utterly infectious. This year has been by far the most enjoyable and  rewarding in this wonderful hobby of ours, for me, and that is almost exclusively down to h1, so it's a big thank you from me also, h1 you are the best of us! .


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 1, 2019)

Many thanks for your very kind words @connieflyer ...and yours @JazzVinyl . It makes the effort - and expense! - well worth it, and hopefully helps fellow F-A followers try, and perhaps find, tubes that appeal to their own ears lol .

And as for hoping for a stash of earlier 'balloon' 38s to appear like magic cf, I too hope such a miracle happens . But I must now make a definite plea that it be the Philips (or _exactly _similar) black plate; internally coated ones with gold signal grid wires and ceramic post insulators! Now that my second one's new wires (plus the tube, of course!) have more hours on them, the pair as powers to the CV450 drivers are - once again - driving me crazy...with the question : _where on earth are they digging up all this extra detail from?!!!_ I simply cannot believe that these tubes keep finding more and more material I never had the slightest inkling was there in the recording. I know different tubes often do this, but usually as a _swap _for something else in the FR. But with these Philips tubes in particular, it is at the expense of _nothing whatsoever_...on the contrary, my head is being filled with sounds from every angle, and the 'normal' EL38's wonderful soundstage has an increased spatial quality with these oldies that I have literally _never_ heard before - even from extremely expensive equipment. And this is over and above the goodies that also come from being able to turn up the volume with these tubes in situ, without any discomfort/distortion to spoil the fun...ie. _win, win!!
_
And so, cf - and all fellow trailblazers - try your very best to be as lucky as myself and @Scutey in finding these gold nuggets...a quest in which I truly wish you boundless luck! . You will undoubtedly have to be prepared to pay a good bit more for them than the later CV450-type Mullard - if they do in fact appear!, but when these beauties must surely be (way) outperforming drivers and powers that easily cost upwards of $100 each, it puts them in another light IMHO ...HAPPY LISTENING!...and well into the New Year!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

And thanks to you too @Scutey ...CHEERS!...


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 1, 2019)

Happy New Year 2019 to all the fine folks here - looks like we may just be on track towards a more cost saving year with these new discoveries, perhaps this as a resolution.
Wow those EL38's shown above are beautiful H1 especially when lit, looking like maybe a blend of the classy 6AS7G with it's beautiful orange glowing beam and the plate of EL12's (visually at least).


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Happy New Year 2019 to all the fine folks here - looks like we may just be on track towards a more cost saving year with these new discoveries, perhaps this as a resolution.
> Wow those EL38's shown above are beautiful H1 especially when lit, looking like maybe a blend of the classy 6AS7G with it's beautiful orange glowing beam and the plate of EL12's (visually at least).



Yo DL...there's no doubting the later CV450 style Mullard EL38 is a _much_ nicer looking tube, and better constructed than the earlier, coated 'balloon' version, or the Philips tubes in the power slot. But the fact that the earlier versions - especially the Philips - can bring even more to the table than the 'pretty' ones is nothing short of miraculous lol! .

However, whichever 38s one has, it's now pretty well guaranteed that for the first time I have ever seen in all my nefarious trawling activities - including DIY forums - this tube (in Euforia and Elise, at least) has a gamut of qualities that must surely satisfy 99.999% of tube amp lovers..._bar none!!_  And this is a claim I would normally be asking others to modify somewhat!! ...

So all I can say to you (once again) DL is..._get you home ASAP!_...you don't know what you're missing!!...(mind you, by now I suspect you do in fact have a pretty good idea lol! ). But in the meantime, I hope you're managing to have a good time in foreign lands...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Just listening to a wonderful recording of Bach’s Brandenburg Concertos in 88.2kHz 24bit hi-res (the Academy of Ancient Music/Richard Egarr), and the strings, woodwind and crystal clear lightning fast harpsichord are simply sublime...shan’t say any more...(for now!! )...CHEERS!...


----------



## hypnos1

Hi folks.

A quick word (or two!) on the vexed question as to whether the price difference between Elise and Euforia is worth the extra $.

More so now than ever before, I personally believe (as I've said a good few times in the past lol ) that the upgrades I asked F-A to make over Elise's design - ie. silver wiring; better caps/ resistor circuit/sockets etc. - have provided this amp with even greater _potential_ for much improved performance, in line with upgrades to the rest of one's system.

Notwithstanding the noticeable leaps I myself have experienced as I tackled each and every element in my own, these latest EL38 tubes have confirmed more so than ever that Euforia can indeed be coaxed to a level of performance way beyond what I initially hoped for in this 'Upgraded Elise'. And I personally am extremely glad that F-A did have the foresight to realise this latent potential...especially for those prepared to 'go the extra mile' lol! .

ps. I hope soon to be able to try 4x old Philips (black plate) versions, and given the performance already with 2 as powers to 2x CV450 drivers, I've already pre-booked my place at the sanatorium...not sure if I can take much more of this disbelief and excitement!! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

These balloon tubes are harder to find than the fountain of youth, which also transforms how you feel!


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> These balloon tubes are harder to find than the fountain of youth, which also transforms how you feel!



There is nothing worse than the "best sounding tubes" being unobtanium...


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> These balloon tubes are harder to find than the fountain of youth, which also transforms how you feel!


I'm sure some will turn up eventually, it's just a case of who gets to em first!.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 3, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> These balloon tubes are harder to find than the fountain of youth, which also transforms how you feel!



Hi cf...gave up any hope of finding said 'Fountain of Youth' a _long_ time ago lol!! ...(and boy, have I searched high and low!! ). And these 'Holy Grail' (much more so than the revered GEC 6AS7G variants even IMHO) rarities have been hidden away better than the job done by the Knights Templar, methinks! But don't give up the search...truly, madly, _honestly_...



JazzVinyl said:


> There is nothing worse than the "best sounding tubes" being unobtanium...



Ain't it just so, JV!! But luckily, at least the later Mullard CV450 type still performs spectacularly lol...and is available at prices well below their true worth - _at the moment!!_... (those 'Haltron' branded ones being the real McCoy Mullards, thank goodness!). Plus, I've a sneaking feeling these later tubes will be _much_ longer lived! 



Scutey said:


> I'm sure some will turn up eventually, it's just a case of who gets to em first!.



I sincerely hope so, Scutey...but it could well be a case of pistols at dawn!!  ...(I promise not to push up the bidding lol ).

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!...CJ

ps. 38 adapters sold already...


----------



## JazzVinyl

The performance of 4x EL32 is admirable.  Especially with some hours on them.  
I hear An interesting mix of "command yet controlled",  "powerful yet restrained".

Will be interesting to hear how 4x EL38 do, by comparison.


----------



## connieflyer

Well, now that I know I've been looking in the wrong places, I shall renew my search in a different direction. Had I known I was searching for the Templars I certainly would not have gone to eBay!


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## hypnos1 (Jan 3, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> The performance of 4x EL32 is admirable.  Especially with some hours on them.
> I hear An interesting mix of "command yet controlled",  "powerful yet restrained".
> 
> Will be interesting to hear how 4x EL38 do, by comparison.



Yo JV...these EL32s do need a _very_ long burn-in to give of their best lol! And I personally thought I'd found my 'end game' tubes - especially the earlier ST-shape EL32/coated CV1052, which performed in my own system even better than the later, straight-sided 1052.

However, the mention by some of their being just a tad on the light side re. dynamic presentation gave me extra impetus to see if there was indeed anything that *at least* retained all the qualities of the 32, but with a bit more 'power' to its elbow!  And against all the odds, there it was - the EL38!! ...power to spare, and a lot else besides. And fortunately, confirmed by the early adopters of this amazing tube.
So we look forward to your own impressions in the near future......

ps. That extra power can possibly seem a little _too_ much at first (especially in the bass) - depending on the system, of course - but it soon settles down into a glorious, solid delivery across the entire FR that fills one's whole body and soul...and just keeps getting better with even more hours than I initially thought they needed...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Again, I have to concur, with H,  these El 38's are the best I have tried on this Euforia.  None of the other tubes I have come close to these.  I thought for sure the Cv 1052's and the VT52's were good candidates for this spot, but with the arrival of the El 38's it is not to be. These 38's have everything I could ask for, they make the Sennheiser 800 sing like never before. Was looking into other phones, but now if I get another pair, it will be another 800.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 3, 2019)

Hi H1:   They finally arrived !!  Brand new very nice tubes..one of them the early model, balloon type, coated glass, black plates. The other three Mullard “Pentone” (one Yellow print), all in beautiful shape.

Could not resist testing 4xCV1052 in Euforia...driving 4xEL38s in my Jolida power amp  (the wooden preamp in the right is a Promitheus TVC  that I use for the subwoofers). 

Initial impressions ( as power tubes) are excellent: powerful, detailed, extended, dynamic tubes that can hit really good in the bass department...and at the same time they sound, well, big & refined.  I expected something similar to the KT77s or the Mullards EL34s, but no:  EL38s are different tubes, soundwise. Maybe closer to the mighty KT150s in terms of power...but way more open and refined..

Next experiment: 4 x EL38 in Euforia.  For now, let’s burn a little those amazing tubes...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi H1:   They finally arrived !!  Brand new very nice tubes..one of them the early model, balloon type, coated glass, black plates. The other three Mullard “Pentone” (one Yellow print), all in beautiful shape.
> 
> Could not resist testing 4xCV1052 in Euforia...driving 4xEL38s in my Jolida power amp  (the wooden preamp in the right is a Promitheus TVC  that I use for the subwoofers).
> 
> ...



Really good news your tubes actually made it to you second time around, Johnny, and all in one piece lol!...I'm very glad for you - these beauties are far too precious to come to any harm...
And looks like you struck gold with one of them also..._doubly_ lucky!! 

Glad too that you're liking them already...and they can only get even better as you put more hours on them - they benefit from almost as long a burn-in as the EL32..

And interesting that they are outperforming the mighty EL34...I always suspected they just might, from my searchings lol!  And it does make sense, given they're obviously the same construction as its extremely expensive sibling, the EL37 (bar the top anode connection). But now, of course, your dilemma will be whether to use them in your Jolida, or Euforia!! My only advice would be to get yourself _another_ four...you _know_ it makes sense!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, it's finally official - they can come and take me away whenever they like...on condition that I take my current Euforia with me lol! 

And what's tipping me over the edge? Two albums of one of my favourite groups of all time - ELO - are 'A New World Record' and 'Out of the Blue'. With all of my previous tubes, the former has never sounded as well recorded as the latter, and hasn't been played anywhere near as often as the tracks deserve, and I would like. But once again, these EL38s are doing their magic trick of pulling that rabbit out of the hat...and now I simply can't stop playing the sadly ignored NWR. I am totally, utterly dumbfounded/confounded once again...so _please_, someone, pull me back from the brink!!  ...CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 4, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Really good news your tubes actually made it to you second time around, Johnny, and all in one piece lol!...I'm very glad for you - these beauties are far too precious to come to any harm...
> And looks like you struck gold with one of them also..._doubly_ lucky!!
> 
> Glad too that you're liking them already...and they can only get even better as you put more hours on them - they benefit from almost as long a burn-in as the EL32..
> ...



Oh Yes .... I do KNOW another four makes sense sonically, not financially !! 

It looks like, by chance I received EL38s from three different generations !  The coated glass is the oldest, then cames the yellow print (I think) with double round bottom getters, and apparently the latest might be the white print (cream, actually) with double “half box” bottom getters that I have never seen before....do you have any clues about dating of these tubes  ??

The more I listen, the more I like them.  Out of the box...as with the EL32s, I expect the EL38s to “open up” a bit with burn-in.  The EL34s are great tubes, but the EL38s are clearly superior in the bass.  EL34 (and KT77) bass is very nice & deep, but can be just a little “loose” at times, while the EL38s is always solid and well defined.  The sound has a certain “big” and relaxed quality which is just the ticket for many types of music.  Relatively old recordings sound much better...not to mention high-def ones !!   I am tempted to try the quartet in the Euforia at once...will wait a few hours since I feel they’ll burn faster in the power amp !!  Cheers....


----------



## connieflyer

Well, H, when are you going to try the El 37? It is the natural next step, you know you just have too!!! If you do, and they are better, I will definitely buy in!


----------



## connieflyer

H, if you wanted to try one, I will split to cost.


----------



## OctavianH

I read the whole discussion about EL38 and I will, most probably, try a 4x combo. I found some Mullard with yellow print at 45£/piece.

What is a decent price for such a tube? Is there any difference between white print and yellow print?


----------



## Scutey

Hi Octavian, the seller of those yellow print El38 has put the price up, 2 months ago they were £38 each, £45 does seem a bit pricey but there's not many of them around and I guess they are only going to go one way, which, of course is up!, I have 6 of the white print brown base and internally they appear to be identical to the yellow print, can't comment on sound differences,but I would guess they have the same sound, I have 3 different types, the 6 white print grey plate, 2 CV450 grey plate, and 2 grey coated, black plate Philips, the only difference being the Philips have the edge on sound quality.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, H, when are you going to try the El 37? It is the natural next step, you know you just have too!!! If you do, and they are better, I will definitely buy in!



Hi cf.
Well, with NOS 37s going for upwards of $190 _each_, I'm afraid this is indeed a step too far...even for a mad hatter like me lol!!...Sorry! 

And anyway, ol' fruit, from my close scrutiny of these tubes - via photos, at least - their construction looks far too close to the 38...._identical_ in fact, apart from the latter's top anode connection (which, as I mentioned previously, I like to think makes the 38 even _better_, as with the EL12 Spezial vs the 12. Especially when not pushed too hard - as in our amps - and with it strapped as a triode, bringing greater linearity...along with all the goodies that entails (particularly a power that is also combined with wonderful delicacy ).



OctavianH said:


> I read the whole discussion about EL38 and I will, most probably, try a 4x combo. I found some Mullard with yellow print at 45£/piece.
> 
> What is a decent price for such a tube? Is there any difference between white print and yellow print?



Hi OH. I can only advise that you do indeed go ahead and get your own quartet ASAP...as @Scutey said, these beauties are shooting up in price all the time, and I'm quite sure will also become harder and harder to find..._word is out lol!!_ One can only hope that collections of good, used tubes appear out of nowhere, which sometimes happens of course!  But these tubes are _so_ good - and not just in my own opinion - that NOS ones have got to be the better bet...even at about £45 each. I dread to think how much you'd have to pay for a tube that comes anywhere near...and I personally can't think of any whatsoever that can match it for our amps..._at any price_...

And I too don't think there will be any difference between any of the later, clear glass CV450-type design from Mullard. And again, as Scutey has found, only the earlier, coated Mullards or Philips stable (preferably with _black_ plates) can pip them past the post!

So GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> It looks like, by chance I received EL38s from three different generations ! The coated glass is the oldest, then cames the yellow print (I think) with double round bottom getters, and apparently the latest might be the white print (cream, actually) with double “half box” bottom getters that I have never seen before....do you have any clues about dating of these tubes ??


They should have codes on them. What are they?

About the yellow print. Note the comments, too.

https://www.effectrode.com/news/vintage-mullard-yellow-print-tubes-white-print-tubes/


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## JazzVinyl (Jan 5, 2019)

I have received my quad of Haltron (Mullard) EL38's...all appear to be NOS, all bases and caps are tight, tubes appear to be very nicely made.

But, I have no adaptors, yet...they show, as within the USA...






C'mon....adaptors 

Will echo what has already been said: Packing was good, and shipment was speedy (but pricey) from French eBay user: "french-drawer"


   

.


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> They should have codes on them. What are they?
> 
> About the yellow print. Note the comments, too.
> 
> https://www.effectrode.com/news/vintage-mullard-yellow-print-tubes-white-print-tubes/



Thanks for that link O...explains things nicely lol . Never did think there was any difference in performance!!

Now then o wise one...what about _green_ printing on Philips tubes, as opposed to anything else?!! ...


----------



## hypnos1

*IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR ANYONE LOOKING FOR MULLARD EL38s*

Hey @OctavianH , and anyone else looking for Mullard EL38s. Hopefully you don't need to be paying £45 each at all...Billington Export here in the UK appear to have some - NOS and used - at very good prices, especially the 'wholesale' prices for multiples ...4x NOS at £31.50 each, and 6x grade 1 used at £19.50 (plus 20% VAT for UK and EU purchasers)... But note there's a credit card charge, and 4% for PayPal payments. Matched sets can be obtained for a little extra.

It's also probably a good idea to email them for confirmation of availability and prices!.....:https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/...ics.co.uk/wholesale/results.asp?ProdCode=el38

So GOOD LUCK!...CJ


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Now then o wise one...what about _green_ printing on Philips tubes, as opposed to anything else?!! ...


French Miniwatt brand? Don't know if it means anything.


----------



## JazzVinyl

What about EL39's?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-EL39-46...ance-1955-Balanced-Tubes-NOS-NIB/302863098023


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## JazzVinyl (Jan 6, 2019)

EL38 construction features:




 



Double Halo Getter's

 

Ceramic insulators...

 

Careful grid construction, reminds of the C3g...


----------



## Johnnysound

Oskari said:


> They should have codes on them. What are they?
> 
> About the yellow print. Note the comments, too.
> 
> https://www.effectrode.com/news/vintage-mullard-yellow-print-tubes-white-print-tubes/



Hi Oskari, interesting article, and yes, I always assumed that the supposed better quality of the “yellow print” tubes was just a myth, as so many around...

The tube codes are as follows: (above/below codes)

Coated tube:  1326/ MS -
Yellow print:           / 3A1  (the first code is hidden by the print)
White print 1:   1326/ 2F1
White print 2:    Hm1/ B7G

I  can barely identify the last one as  a Blackburn tube from 1957/67/77  ( ? )

Many thanks !


----------



## mordy

Hi JV,
There appears to be several alternatives to the EL39 - the 4654, 10E/131, EL50 and the OS18/600 - all these have a side contact base and an anode cap. I assume that the side contact contact/anode cap scares away buyers and there are some real bargains out there:
How about a pair of (very early?) Mullards:




https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-10E-13...h=item5b5138ab1b:g:qesAAOSwwkRcKjBE:rk:7:pf:0
Bidding is up to $5.13 as of now with shipping at $9.01.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 6, 2019)

Nice find, Mordy!! Another new adapter would be required, but WOW what a bargain if the sonics are the same of the octal base EL39's...!!

I read in some old DIY tube amp threads that EL39 was specific to audio amp applications...?


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> EL38 construction features:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And don't forget the gold signal grid wire lol!! ...



mordy said:


> Hi JV,
> There appears to be several alternatives to the EL39 - the 4654, 10E/131, EL50 and the OS18/600 - all these have a side contact base and an anode cap. I assume that the side contact contact/anode cap scares away buyers and there are some real bargains out there:
> How about a pair of (very early?) Mullards:
> 
> ...



Hi mordy.

If the EL39 has the same sonics as the 4654 (which would appear to be most likely, given Radiomuseum info), I'm afraid it will be no match for the EL38, alas. Our late lamented Phil (pct...) sent me a pair of 4654s once that he bought by mistake, thinking them EL12 Spezials, and I personally found them not quite on a par with the said TFK Spezial (which is *way* outperformed by the EL38). I fear this will definitely be a case of 'you get what you pay for' lol!!


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks H, for clearing that up. The other thing of course, it's those side mounted tubes. I really enjoyed the el3n when I had the Elise, but once I sold that and got the new euforia amplifier, I swore I would never go back to a side mounted tube. Any time you had to move them change them you ended up having to bend the adapters back into place to make good contact more hassle than it was worth. Other tubes were just as good if not better. The El 38 bear this out. If you don't have an euphoria amplifier, then you can't really know just how good these tubes are. I know that it takes the Elise amp up to another level, but the Euphoria amplifier is a level or two above that with these e l 38 tubes. I have found over this last year or so that the Euforia was well worth the upgrade price over the Elise. If I had it all to do over again, I would still spend the extra and get the  Euphoria amplifier it has been totally worth it. And using that with a much better headphone like the Sennheiser 800 brings this all full circle with a great dac the music has never sounded better. Felix audio really scored big with this amplifier. And H, your research, and suggestions for upgrading your own amplifier, the Elise, with new components brought forth the Euphoria, and of course all your research into various tube combinations have brought this thread and this audio experience to new heights I thank you so very much for all your hard work and interest that has helped all of us have a much better audio experience.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks for your very kind words also @connieflyer ...much appreciated...

Re. those side contact tubes, although they weren't _too_ tricky to adapt myself (but octals still much easier!), I always felt sorry for folks who had to rely on commercial adapters, which seemed nothing but trouble (and I know Glenn doesn't really like them either lol! ). No wonder most tube lovers now stay away from them!!

And I agree with you concerning the "upgraded Elise" - ie. *Euforia.* As I mentioned previously, although it's obviously a better amp from the off, I'm quite sure that the upgrades do in fact give the added benefit for even greater _potential_, as one upgrades all other elements in one's system...including tubes. This amp keeps on surprising me in this respect...viz. even with just another 20 hrs or so on my latest earlier Philips EL38s, I'm hearing more subtle 'extras' than ever before, such as not only a treble that's even more delicious, but with a splash cymbal decay that somehow manages to also fade into 3-dimensional space...real eerie lol! . And as for bass... it's depth, detail, complexity and _texture_ is like I've never heard before - quite phenomenal. I never thought I could become so addicted to low end frequencies...'slam', 'weight' are terms far too insulting to use in the sort of bass I'm now experiencing. Once again, almost beyond description lol! 

And all this is with 'just' 2x coated Philips tubes as powers, driven by 2x CV450s...this week I hope to have a quartet of the Philips in situ...how can they possibly bring anything more to the table..._can they?!!_...stay tuned......


----------



## JazzVinyl

Yes side contacts can be a pain with the cheaply made Chinese sockets, but still workable, I wouldn't disavow them entirely, as CF has.  There are expensive side contact sockets avail that completely solve side contact ills, if one has the budget and is so inclined.


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Oskari, interesting article, and yes, I always assumed that the supposed better quality of the “yellow print” tubes was just a myth, as so many around...
> 
> The tube codes are as follows: (above/below codes)
> 
> ...


The one with the Hm code should be 1957 because the week digit is not there.

1326 must be the code for EL38 in the Mullard only system used before 1956. I'm not aware of explanations to those two date code types. It's tempting to guess, though.

If the yellow print tube is older than the white print tubes, the hidden code should be 1326. If it is younger, the hidden code should be Hm something (and the factory code as well!); this would be a 1963 (or 1973) tube.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 7, 2019)

While more expensive side contact sockets are available for those of us that can afford them, I see no reason to spend extra money chasing down and inferior tube when the El 38 is available. Of course, if you are still using an Elise amp, perhaps it would make sense I am not aware of how much difference that would make compared to the side contact el3 n. But judging from what I heard when I still had the older amplifier El38 would probably still sound better. Of course your results May Vary depending on what kind of equipment you are also using with the amplifier and the tubes


----------



## JazzVinyl

I never gelled with EL3N as a driver in the FA amp.  Is it possible the EL50 side contact, could fair better.

Cheers....


----------



## connieflyer

Why not just buy a couple in trial if you already have the adapters I can't cost all that much


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> I never gelled with EL3N as a driver in the FA amp.  Is it possible the EL50 side contact, could fair better.
> 
> Cheers....



Hi JV.

I personally would imagine the EL32 is a far better bet than the EL50..._and it isn't side contact lol!! _But why oh why bother with any of these - no matter how cheap - when the EL38 is _vastly_ superior, full stop...and still available from Billington Export here in the UK at prices that are far below this tube's worth? This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Elise and Euforia owners to take their amps into amp territory that would cost a great deal more...a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned lol!...and my personal recommendation therefore is NOT to go second - or third! - best. Y'all - and our amps - deserve the best  .


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> While more expensive side contact sockets are available for those of us that can afford them, I see no reason to spend extra money chasing down and inferior tube when the El 38 is available. Of course, if you are still using an Elise amp, perhaps it would make sense I am not aware of how much difference that would make compared to the side contact el3 n. But judging from what I heard when I still had the older amplifier El38 would probably still sound better. Of course your results May Vary depending on what kind of equipment you are also using with the amplifier and the tubes



Hi cf. I think the Elise owners who have already tried the EL38 would confirm this tube is *way *ahead of any other ever used in her. And from their comments, along with my own experience of the EL3N in my Elise, there's simply no comparison lol!


----------



## connieflyer

I figured as much. I don't understand yjv would bother with the e l 50 when he is already using el32, which is a much better tube then the el3 was. It's like going backwards. But to each his own


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf. I think the Elise owners who have already tried the EL38 would confirm this tube is *way *ahead of any other ever used in her. And from their comments, along with my own experience of the EL3N in my Elise, there's simply no comparison lol!


Hi h1, I would definitely agree! .


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> I personally would imagine the EL32 is a far better bet than the EL50..._and it isn't side contact lol!! _But why oh why bother with any of these - no matter how cheap - when the EL38 is _vastly_ superior, full stop...and still available from Billington Export here in the UK at prices that are far below this tube's worth? This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Elise and Euforia owners to take their amps into amp territory that would cost a great deal more...a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned lol!...and my personal recommendation therefore is NOT to go second - or third! - best. Y'all - and our amps - deserve the best  .



Hello H1

I already have a quad of EL38’s in the house.  Just await adapters. 

Might try EL50 - just for giggles...as @connieflyer says...they are so cheap...why not?


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> I figured as much. I don't understand yjv would bother with the e l 50 when he is already using el32, which is a much better tube then the el3 was. It's like going backwards. But to each his own



You have never heard EL50’s, right @connieflyer? 

It does not take much to beat the EL3N, thats fir certain.


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> Hello H1
> 
> I already have a quad of EL38’s in the house.  Just await adapters.



Hi JV. All I can say is I hope those darned adapters reach you real soon. Only then can one truly understand/appreciate what I, and others, keep going on about ad infinitum lol! . I must admit that I myself would never have fully comprehended/grasped the extent of this tube's qualities and abilities...in fact I _still_ can't believe it!!


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys, I've had to curtail my late night listening session due to unexpected circumstances...and something that has never happened to me before while enjoying a particular special piece of music - one that I've always found intriguing, ie. Sade's album 'Soldier of Love', and played many times.

Have you ever been faced with an experience (pleasant) that has suddenly left you in a state of wonderment/confusion/disbelief/disorientation...and _denial_ even - to the point where everything seems to just stand still, and you wonder exactly what to do about it? (Apart from falling instantly in love, that is!! ). Well, this is what has just happened to me while listening to Sade's music.

Why?...because today I replaced my 2x Mullard CV450 drivers for 1x older, coated 'balloon' Mullard EL38 (black plate) and 1x coated Philips 38...with 2x black plate Philips tubes as powers.
In a way, I was hoping for no real difference, as I really love the looks of the 'pretty' later Mullards! Plus, I was fearing (wrongly, once again) that perhaps the bass would be slightly overpowering.

But what I _wasn't_ prepared for was a sound that left me in the state I mentioned at the outset...to the point where I simply couldn't continue playing anything else, and feel I need to hit those sheets and drift off somewhere to regain 'normality'...daft though it may sound, and something I'm finding hard to understand! Very rare indeed are these kinds of magical moments, to be sure. 

And so I'll say BFN and try to analyse tomorrow just what in these tubes' performance has left me in such a state lol!! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well, hopefully, you did not drift into another dimensional universe! Although that does sound interesting.  So perhaps a little more review of just what you are hearing, when you have time to clarify what it is that is such a change.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 8, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Well, hopefully, you did not drift into another dimensional universe! Although that does sound interesting.  So perhaps a little more review of just what you are hearing, when you have time to clarify what it is that is such a change.



Actually cf, you're not too far off the mark with "another dimensional universe" lol!...

As is the goal of many music makers (in all civilizations) since time immemorial, various techniques are indeed employed to induce mild - or strong! - altered states of consciousness in the listener. Some are brazenly brutish and obvious - like monotonous, rhythmic drum beats (African being a prime example) or the persistent low bass 'thumping' at discos or 'raves' (especially when combined with alcohol or drugs!). Others are much more subtle, and less obvious, but can in fact be just as effective. This is where the mastery of recording engineers can be displayed...if they really know what they're doing lol .

Anyway, in short, the engineer of Sade's 'Soldier of Love' was obviously such a master...which I suppose is why I've always been intrigued by this album. Various clever techniques have been employed which, coupled with my (initially only mild) expectation being turned completely on its head, certainly were enough to catch me off guard and get my head spinning somewhat!

And the factors that hit my expectation were, basically, even _higher _levels of all those qualities I have already covered in depth re. _all_ the EL38 family....notably :

1. An even tighter, more solid bass, with added timing control...such that low notes that were meant to sustain did so enticingly, while repetitive ones maintained an underlying rhythm with impeccable pace. And all without dominating the music piece at all.

2. Slightly more treble detail and presence, which at first was no friend to any sibilance in recordings but which, thankfully, eased sufficiently while maintaining that slight extra 'sparkle'...icing on the cake lol! Plus, even more delicious cymbal decay...mmmmm........

3. Even more engaging/enticing mids details, perfectly placed.

4. Instrument (and music effects) separation and placement enhanced, so as to increase even further the effect of multiple sounds appearing as if by magic throughout an expanded spatial soundstage...but not in a disjointed manner. This is, I'm quite sure, an effect that is greatly heightened in a very resolving system, and reliant especially upon headphones that can take full advantage of such a soundstage. And certainly more noticeable than would be the case with most speaker systems....and also much more likely to assist in altering one's state of consciousness somewhat lol! 

5. Last but not least, all these qualities are combined in a way that retains immaculate balance, cohesion and control...in a word..._masterful_. And such that you just _know_ this has been achieved totally effortlessly, and without contrivance.

Time now to let you digest my diatribe...in the hope I've given some clue as to just what gave me such a surprise last night (and repeated somewhat in the light of day...but this time I was ready for it lol!! ).

ps. The upshot of this is if you can at all come across these earlier, coated 38s, *grab 'em!!*
pps. And one of those I'm using at the moment as driver is a Philips with _grey_ plate, not black - but still with the ceramic post insulators and gold signal grid wires - and only tested at *38%* of max plate dissipation rating. And yet final volume is the same as tubes rated at 80+% and over 90%...and with no hint whatsoever of sounding 'tired'...go figure!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Nice review H, but honestly, did you like them?  Heh, heh, well I will be on the hunt for these as well.  I now have two quad of the Mullard El 38 so will have to try to locate the Philips variety Have not seen any yet but, some may show up at some future time, and I will indeed ponce on them. Glad you have recovered from your reverie of last night.  Though I may have lost you there for a while!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Nice review H, but honestly, did you like them?  Heh, heh, well I will be on the hunt for these as well.  I now have two quad of the Mullard El 38 so will have to try to locate the Philips variety Have not seen any yet but, some may show up at some future time, and I will indeed ponce on them. Glad you have recovered from your reverie of last night.  *Thought I may have lost you there for a while!*



Aahh cf...but I've tonight's listening session to come yet, after supper drink...so who knows lol?!! ....g'night, y'all......


----------



## connieflyer

Goodnight and good music,  Take care now


----------



## JazzVinyl

Got my quad of EL38 adapters today...


----------



## JazzVinyl

The quad of EL38 was very dark, I thought.  Now, I love bass, but wow, this was too much of a good thing. Also noticed I had to turn the level down in the player software to avoid distortions in the low end.  Once I got the level down enough...no more distortion problems, but still overwhelmed at all the bass.

Tried EL32 as drivers and EL38 as powers, and thought that was better.  Then thought, man, these can use some really bright drivers...so put in a pair of 7N7's that I usually avoid as way too top-endy, and this was "just right" as goldilocks would say....so stayed there for this evenings tunage...which featured Seal and his wonderfully done album: "Soul"....


 

I know the EL32's took about 20 hours to settle down and find thier voice...maybe the same will be true for EL38's..

Bass is definitely impressive!

BTW! The EL38 on the right...has a blue light on the opposite wall...reflecting in its glass...no "blue glow" from inside


----------



## connieflyer

You should try them in your Euforia if you still have it. So far you are the only negative review of these tubes.  To bad, they are really great sounding.  If you want to sell them off with the adapters let us know.


----------



## attmci

JazzVinyl said:


> The quad of EL38 was very dark, I thought.  Now, I love bass, but wow, this was too much of a good thing. Also noticed I had to turn the level down in the player software to avoid distortions in the low end.  Once I got the level down enough...no more distortion problems, but still overwhelmed at all the bass.
> 
> Tried EL32 as drivers and EL38 as powers, and thought that was better.  Then thought, man, these can use some really bright drivers...so put in a pair of 7N7's that I usually avoid as way too top-endy, and this was "just right" as goldilocks would say....so stayed there for this evenings tunage...which featured Seal and his wonderfully done album: "Soul"....
> 
> ...


I could not find anything negative from your post. 

Enjoy!


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> You should try them in your Euforia if you still have it. So far you are the only negative review of these tubes.  To bad, they are really great sounding.  If you want to sell them off with the adapters let us know.



No, I am loving 2x EL38's and the 7N7's!! 

That didn't come across?


----------



## JazzVinyl

attmci said:


> I could not find anything negative from your post.
> 
> Enjoy!



LOL!   Well thanks for that! I certainly did not mean for it to come across as negative!!!


----------



## JazzVinyl

Two thumbs up to this, too:


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> The quad of EL38 was very dark, I thought.  Now, I love bass, but wow, this was too much of a good thing. Also noticed I had to turn the level down in the player software to avoid distortions in the low end.  Once I got the level down enough...no more distortion problems, but still overwhelmed at all the bass.
> 
> Tried EL32 as drivers and EL38 as powers, and thought that was better.  Then thought, man, these can use some really bright drivers...so put in a pair of 7N7's that I usually avoid as way too top-endy, and this was "just right" as goldilocks would say....so stayed there for this evenings tunage...which featured Seal and his wonderfully done album: "Soul"....
> 
> ...



Hi JV.

As I have mentioned many times before, these EL38s will indeed be quite heavy in the bass frequencies at first. I personally found this even when driven by the lighter bass presence (as most others found) of the EL32s, and wondered if it would be a tad too much. But fortunately, as everyone else so far has found, they settle down into the most solid, detailed bass ever to have graced either Euforia or Elise. Hopefully you too will discover this with further burn-in...these EL38s do indeed need almost as long as the 150+hrs of the 32, and only then can full assessment be truly accurate lol! 

But again as always, different folks have different preferences. And as usual, a certain degree will also depend upon the rest of one's system.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> Hi JV.
> 
> As I have mentioned many times before, these EL38s will indeed be quite heavy in the bass frequencies at first. I personally found this even when driven by the lighter bass presence (as most others found) of the EL32s, and wondered if it would be a tad too much. But fortunately, as everyone else so far has found, they settle down into the most solid, detailed bass ever to have graced either Euforia or Elise. Hopefully you too will discover this with further burn-in...these EL38s do indeed need almost as long as the 150+hrs of the 32, and only then can full assessment be truly accurate lol!
> 
> But again as always, different folks have different preferences. And as usual, a certain degree will also depend upon the rest of one's system.



Right-o, I can already tell they have tightened up in the bass and also not so quick to distort in the bass dept either.  

They were probably groggy after being asleep for 73 years 


.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 10, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> Right-o, I can already tell they have tightened up in the bass and also not so quick to distort in the bass dept either.
> 
> They were probably groggy after being asleep for 73 years
> 
> ...



Hi JV.

Yes indeed, that's a long time for Sleeping Beauty to wake up from lol!! 

These tubes did almost as good a job of scrambling my head as the EL32s did...I've never known a tube to go hither and thither so much before really getting into its stride....but boy, is it worth the wait! . And once again, the cooling periods I found to be just as important in the 'conditioning' process as the playing time. These tubes do indeed reward patience very richly indeed, and I hope they continue to do so for yourself also...CHEERS!...CJ

ps I found your mention of _distortion_ in the bass rather confusing...even when I turned up my volume to impossible levels, there was never the slightest hint of it. I certainly hope yours disappears completely...never to return lol!


----------



## Madhyamika

I can lend my voice to the encouragement for giving the EL38 quad a bit of time for the bass to settle in. I was initially overwhelmed by the bass with 4 of them in Elise, and now that I’m about 100 hours in the bass has tightened up beautifully and is continuing to refine itself. I’m very pleased with what I’m hearing 
- Jay


----------



## connieflyer

I concur with this as well, time is your friend here.  Once they settle in, you are rewarded with a great sound.  It is by far the best I have heard from the Euforia, bar none that I have tried.  Am glad I stocked up and got two quads when I did, should last as long as the amp.  Thanks again H for your research and insight into discovering these tubes for us.


----------



## aqsw

I'm an hour into my 4x el38 on my euforia. I'm  impressed. Think I'm  going to order some more. I will put them in my Elise for now. It gets very little playing time, but the time it does get may as well be the best.


----------



## Scutey

Well for the first time for a month I've changed out my quad of EL38, for a bit of tube rolling with old favourites (EL32, Tung Sol 5998, Tung Sol 6AS7G, El3N). I have to say I was astonished by how much they were overshadowed by the EL38, when you haven't rolled for a while it's possible to forget just how good the 38 is compared to others, well it's made me appreciate them even more!. Another point that's amazed me is how good they handle so many genres, jazz, classical,soul, funk, rock, metal, all handled beautifully with fantastic finesse and dynamics, and recordings, whether they are old or new, even some indifferent recordings seems to have been remastered by them, they really do seem to hit a sweet spot, no other tube I have can do that, utterly unique .


----------



## connieflyer

Very well said, its funny when I read your words, how closely they are to my same experience. I went back and rolled some of the older tubes I wanted to hear again the gec 6 as7g and the gec 6080 and was amazed that how much better el38 sounded then the tubes that cost me a young Fortune. I sold those a little while back and I am not sorry to see them go. I will probably be selling off the rest of my tube stock as I just don't see any point in going backwards anymore. They all sounded good I enjoyed them, but when I go back and listen to them now after the El 38 it just doesn't make sense for me to spend my time with those when I can be listening to something as refined as the El 38. I am really glad that you have a chance to experience this as well.


----------



## JazzVinyl

2nd listening session with EL38's and they are definitely changing, bass is tightening up, as predicted. No more bass distortions at the normal input level.

Still find 4x a little too dark, using a pair of beautiful Sylvania 6SN7GT and EL38 as powers...and it's super nice,

Big, distinct sound stage, big powerful bass, professional and mature "tube sound",  micro details, galore. Definitely the best power tube I ever had in.

Will give the quad "exercise and cool downs", as prescribed...


----------



## JazzVinyl

Madhyamika said:


> I can lend my voice to the encouragement for giving the EL38 quad a bit of time for the bass to settle in. I was initially overwhelmed by the bass with 4 of them in Elise, and now that I’m about 100 hours in the bass has tightened up beautifully and is continuing to refine itself. I’m very pleased with what I’m hearing
> - Jay



Hello Jay...bass tightens up beautifully, how about the high end?   Do they gain some sparkle up top, too?


----------



## Madhyamika

In my setup they certainly have gained sparkle as they’ve been running in. For me, the change in the bass seemed more dramatic, but my circumstances may have influenced that impression - my initial several hours of listening with the EL38 quad didn’t seem overly dark or muffled via Focal Elex headphones. Bass was definitely over-the top at that point though. 

Most of my listening since then, however, has been using Elise as a preamp through my Marantz amp and SVS Ultra speakers while I’ve been working on a tube amp-building project. With this setup it did sound quite muffled up top for the first few dozen hours, with a bit of a collapsed soundstage relative to what these speakers usually throw. With additional hours, this has entirely cleared up and the soundstage and high end have really blossomed into a really marvelous room-filling dimensionality with plenty of sparkle and air and detail in the highs and upper mids to the degree that it keeps distracting me from  my soldering because I have to stop and close my eyes and listen! And the bass also continues to refine its texture and precision. It’s a very enjoyable journey that keeps getting better as it goes. 

I’ll have to check back in with the headphones soon and see how they now sound with the tubes in their current much-improved state.


----------



## Scutey (Jan 11, 2019)

Madhyamika said:


> In my setup they certainly have gained sparkle as they’ve been running in. For me, the change in the bass seemed more dramatic, but my circumstances may have influenced that impression - my initial several hours of listening with the EL38 quad didn’t seem overly dark or muffled via Focal Elex headphones. Bass was definitely over-the top at that point though.
> 
> Most of my listening since then, however, has been using Elise as a preamp through my Marantz amp and SVS Ultra speakers while I’ve been working on a tube amp-building project. With this setup it did sound quite muffled up top for the first few dozen hours, with a bit of a collapsed soundstage relative to what these speakers usually throw. With additional hours, this has entirely cleared up and the soundstage and high end have really blossomed into a really marvelous room-filling dimensionality with plenty of sparkle and air and detail in the highs and upper mids to the degree that it keeps distracting me from  my soldering because I have to stop and close my eyes and listen! And the bass also continues to refine its texture and precision. It’s a very enjoyable journey that keeps getting better as it goes.
> 
> I’ll have to check back in with the headphones soon and see how they now sound with the tubes in their current much-improved state.


Hi Jay, hope you don't mind me asking but I notice you said you have used the Focal Elex with your Elise, I was wondering, how do you find they pair with the Elise?, I'm toying with the idea of buying some Focal Elear, I know the tuning isn't exactly the same, it was more about the low ohm rating compared to the Elise's output, seeing as the Elear's ohm, sensitivity, THD, and FR are the same as the Elex, I'm guessing they will react the same, have you found them to be a good paring?.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Madhyamika said:


> In my setup they certainly have gained sparkle as they’ve been running in. For me, the change in the bass seemed more dramatic, but my circumstances may have influenced that impression - my initial several hours of listening with the EL38 quad didn’t seem overly dark or muffled via Focal Elex headphones. Bass was definitely over-the top at that point though.
> 
> Most of my listening since then, however, has been using Elise as a preamp through my Marantz amp and SVS Ultra speakers while I’ve been working on a tube amp-building project. With this setup it did sound quite muffled up top for the first few dozen hours, with a bit of a collapsed soundstage relative to what these speakers usually throw. With additional hours, this has entirely cleared up and the soundstage and high end have really blossomed into a really marvelous room-filling dimensionality with plenty of sparkle and air and detail in the highs and upper mids to the degree that it keeps distracting me from  my soldering because I have to stop and close my eyes and listen! And the bass also continues to refine its texture and precision. It’s a very enjoyable journey that keeps getting better as it goes.
> 
> I’ll have to check back in with the headphones soon and see how they now sound with the tubes in their current much-improved state.



Very good, Jay...

Appreciate your perspective.  And happy to hear you DIY on tube projects.  I recently fixed up a 1941 Montgomery Ward console radio, to accept a mini input jack from an MP3 player, and re-capped the power supply and audio section to get rid of a persistent hum.

Works great now, and my wife and I love having it on as "background" music in the living room.  She likes it so much that she had me add LED's around the back and under...as "bling" 

When I was younger, I worked up a lot of electronic projects. 

Hope you are having a blast 

.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 11, 2019)

Hi guys.

Really glad to hear your findings re. the EL38 are matching my own...especially as they develop with further burn-in. I still regard them as the best tubes _by far_ I've ever heard in my system.

And now, with more hours on my coated Philips versions, I'm quite sure only a super - and very expensive! - amp using something like the 2A3/45 tube might just surpass what I'm now hearing...ie. the sort of 'big' sound that normally can only really come from 'big' tubes. But IMHO this is only of true value if they can deliver this while retaining delicacy; pinpoint placement of individual instruments/vocals; balanced presentation across a _very_ wide frequency range, and all with that feeling of wonderful cohesion, regardless of the type of music being handled.

And on the subject of FR, your question about treble response @JazzVinyl has already been answered, but I will repeat that as bass settles in and eases back, the treble frequencies come through nicely...both in extension and detail, with a sweetness that copes admirably with all but the most sibilant of recordings, and just the right amount of sparkle - for most tastes, that is!
However, of course, so much also depends upon the rest of the system and one's individual preferences...not to mention wide variations in hearing lol!! . From your own experience with the EL3N compared to most others', for example, it would certainly appear either your own system or ears lean to a lighter, less 'big' overall presentation...and will therefore influence the choice of tubes that suit you best. This is, of course, true for everyone in this _very_ subjective hobby of ours lol! ...and can have us all running around in ever decreasing circles - not to mention falling ever further down that darned rabbit hole! So GOOD LUCK in finding what brings you your very own 'nirvana'...(I've certainly now found my own at last... _thank goodness!!_ )....CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 11, 2019)

Hey @Madhyamika , good luck with your project! Hope all goes well with it...(is it a kit, or pure DIY from scratch?).

You mentioned you were going to see how your EL38 setup now sounds through cans, as opposed to speakers. Well, I myself thought it about time once again I tried my own system through my Vincent integrated and (smallish) modded Dynaudio standmounts. Today my brother brought over a recording by an amazing harpsichordist - Jori Vinikour - of Handel's 'Harmonious Blacksmith', and the sound was simply spectacular. I can only imagine what it would be like through some larger, top flight speakers. I will definitely have to be doing more speaker listening, but my other half's reticence towards a house full of glorious sound is always a barrier alas...and hence my conversion to headphones lol! ...but most certainly a blessing in disguise!! ...

I hope you find your return to headphones equally exciting......


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> I'm an hour into my 4x el38 on my euforia. I'm  impressed. Think I'm  going to order some more. I will put them in my Elise for now. It gets very little playing time,* but the time it does get may as well be the best*.



Hi aqsw. I can't find any flaw with your logic...sounds good to me lol!! 

Hope you saw my recent post with a link to Billington Export here in the UK, who have NOS and grade1 used EL38s at very good prices. Whatever...GOOD HUNTING!...(the earlier, coated Philips versions being all but impossible to find at the moment alas...).


----------



## Oskari

CJ, where do you think those Philips tubes were made? Do they have codes that we can interpret?


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 11, 2019)

Oskari said:


> The one with the Hm code should be 1957 because the week digit is not there.
> 
> 1326 must be the code for EL38 in the Mullard only system used before 1956. I'm not aware of explanations to those two date code types. It's tempting to guess, though.
> 
> ...





Oskari said:


> CJ, where do you think those Philips tubes were made? Do they have codes that we can interpret?



Hi Oskari, since you are interested in Philips tubes, I think two of my Mullard branded EL38s (manufacturing codes 3A1 and 2F1) must have been made by Philips Eindhoven factory, because digits 3 and 2 indicate that.  Also, a 3 character date code  says that those are pre 1961 tubes (according to Brent Jesee)  but I can’t decipher the year.  The real mystery Is around the coated tube with a cryptic “1326/MS-“ code.  Surely pre 1960, but this country/date code is followed by a significant question mark “?” in all the available tube lists !!


----------



## Madhyamika

Scutey said:


> Hi Jay, hope you don't mind me asking but I notice you said you have used the Focal Elex with your Elise, I was wondering, how do you find they pair with the Elise?, I'm toying with the idea of buying some Focal Elear, I know the tuning isn't exactly the same, it was more about the low ohm rating compared to the Elise's output, seeing as the Elear's ohm, sensitivity, THD, and FR are the same as the Elex, I'm guessing they will react the same, have you found them to be a good paring?.



Hi Scutey,

I’ve really been liking the sound of Elise via the Elex headphones. They seem to synergize very well to my ear. Bear in mind that I’m relatively new to the head-fi world and most of my listening has been via speakers and as a live acoustic musician, but I’ve been very impressed with the wide open “natural” sound that I hear through the Focals. Via Elise with nicely settled tubes, lows on the Elex are present and well-defined, but not too much (I also have Meze Classic 99s closed-back which are a good bit too bass-heavy for me in most genres via this amp but otherwise are fun). Mids are very natural and balanced seeming, highs have lovely sparkle and air, and soundstage is the largest and best-defined I’ve heard on headphones. I’m very happy with them. I’ve never tried Sennheiser 800s and am curious about them, but otherwise I don’t really have much urge to try other cans at this point since I’m so happy with these paired with Elise. Ymmv with the Elears, of course, but they are quite similar to the Elex and I’ve heard a lot of good about them that sounds similar to why I’m enjoying the Elex. 
Enjoy!


----------



## Madhyamika

JazzVinyl said:


> Very good, Jay...
> 
> Appreciate your perspective.  And happy to hear you DIY on tube projects.  I recently fixed up a 1941 Montgomery Ward console radio, to accept a mini input jack from an MP3 player, and re-capped the power supply and audio section to get rid of a persistent hum.
> 
> ...



I am indeed having a total blast! 

I’ve always loved seeing radios from the 30s and 40s. Reminds me of what much grandparents had in their house when I was a kid - and I’m a relative youngster, having been born in 1975.  Still I love the aesthetics and sounds of many decades from before I was born, especially Art Deco. And the saxophones I play professionally were handmade in the 1930s and 40s, so maybe it’s not surprising that I’m drawn to other musical technology that was hitting its stride in a similar era. 

I think it’s especially exciting to see new variations  on that technology, like what Feliks Audio and others have been doing with tube amplification recently. 

Despite my dad and sister both being electrical engineers, I somehow managed to never pick up a soldering iron until last year. Tube rolling and listening with Elise has helped me realize how much potential there is for customizing one’s listening experience, especially with the help of knowledgeable and friendly people like all of you here on this forum. So I’m now also slippery-sloping my way into DIY by building some of Bob Latino’s superb tube amp kits for stereo and surround listening when I’m not in headphone mode. 

After that, maybe that guitar amp lurking in the corner of my music studio could be ...improved...

See what you all have done to me? I’m out of control! All because I wanted a shiny headphone amp...

And, as I said, I’m absolutely having a blast 

Thanks again to you all for being such a great resource and welcoming community!


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## Johnnysound (Jan 12, 2019)

I don’t want to go “off topic” of course, but while I wait the arrival of adaptors for Euforia, the EL38s are performing beyond expectations in my power amp.  I do agree with H1 in the sense that these tubes can be even MORE linear as triodes (as opossed to pentodes in power duties) and I have no doubt that the sonic experience in Euforia ,(keeping in mind this is an OTL amp) with top class cans must be nothing short than stunning in purity, 3D and definition.   No set of amp/speakers is capable of such sonic perfection, that’s for sure, but on the other hand, (with all its sonic limitations in mind) it is also true that the “open air” performance of a good tube amp/speakers combo can be simply fascinating...with the right tubes.

And no tubes are so critically important for the sound of the amp as the power tubes, so I have tried quite a lot of them: from classics like the original Mullards EL34 (excellent but expensive) and equally good Siemens, to modern reissues like the mighty Tung-Sols KT150s or the Genalex KT77s...the best sounding of them all in my amp...(and probably the best Russian reissue currently produced) that the critics say is very close to the legendary, extremely rare (and ridiculously expensive) British originals.  So far so good...until the arrival of my new DAC (a W4S 1LE) that have such a wide bandwidth and thunderous bass that the KT77s (known for its deep bass) went over the top immediately, I mean, still sounding good, but too much bass !  The quartet of EL32s in Euforia helped to control this somehow, ( but mine are fully burned in, and believe me, capable of really deep bass)  so in the end true bass lines were reproduced by the power amp frighteningly low !!  Too much of a good thing.   The same with all the other power tubes...except the EL38s.

How can this be possible with a tube that shows such a powerful bass ?  In principle, the EL38s would worsen the problem, but they solved it.  Bass is still deep and powerful, but solid and controlled, never over the top.  The same iron fist control over all the frequency spectrum.  I frankly  suspected that the EL38s might be the answer to my problem...(and they were) because those tubes were designed for radar equipment, and as so, extremely rugged and capable of handling extreme signal swings over all frequencies.  They would not be overwhelmed by my DAC, I thought, and yes, they can handle this (and much more) with ease & grace.

Enough has been said about their sound quality, I prefer to talk about it once fully burned in (and they are NOT “fast burners” in my opinion) but one thing is certain: based on H1 impressions, as power pentodes they exhibit almost exactly  the same sound as triodes.  Of course, power amp tubes are a  different history,  in some ways  more demanding, also, a highly competitive field with many offerings.  There are good and bad tubes, and just a few outstanding ones.   Rolling some 12AX7s pre and 12AT7s type drivers (of the highest quality)  in my amp driving the EL38s, I was stunned by the precise rendition of their individual sonic signatures, up to the subtlest details.   Accurate, revealing and transparent are the words that come to my mind.  Powerful, relaxed and solid at the same time, the EL38s belong to the rare category of exceptional powers.  Absolutely no new production tube is this good, in my humble opinion....


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## Madhyamika

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Madhyamika , good luck with your project! Hope all goes well with it...(is it a kit, or pure DIY from scratch?).
> 
> You mentioned you were going to see how your EL38 setup now sounds through cans, as opposed to speakers. Well, I myself thought it about time once again I tried my own system through my Vincent integrated and (smallish) modded Dynaudio standmounts. Today my brother brought over a recording by an amazing harpsichordist - Jori Vinikour - of Handel's 'Harmonious Blacksmith', and the sound was simply spectacular. I can only imagine what it would be like through some larger, top flight speakers. I will definitely have to be doing more speaker listening, but my other half's reticence towards a house full of glorious sound is always a barrier alas...and hence my conversion to headphones lol! ...but most certainly a blessing in disguise!! ...
> 
> I hope you find your return to headphones equally exciting......



I am indeed looking forward to my return to headphones, although it will be a few days yet as I’ve a busy weekend. 

Fortunately no one in my house objects to speaker listening unless it’s late at night, but with my performance schedule, much of my listening does happen after the gigs are done and so late-night is probably about 30% of my available listening time these days. 

I haven’t yet tried any good harpsichord recordings through the 38s - I’ll have to explore that - I imagine it will be quite sparkly!

As for the DIY, I’m building kits: three of Bob Latino’s VTA M-125 tube monoblocks plus one of his ST-120 stereo amps, for an all-tube 5-channel surround setup. Planning to use Elise as my main preamp for stereo listening through two of the monoblocks. It’s a whole lot of tubes! Perhaps I’ve gone a bit overboard, but I’m pretty excited about the whole project, and it all started with Elise 

...Plus running all those tubes means I’ll probably never need to run the furnace again in the cold depths of winter...


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## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> CJ, where do you think those Philips tubes were made? Do they have codes that we can interpret?



Hi O.

I've a sneaking suspicion that these - mostly Dario Miniwatts - were made in France...especially as they were sold by a French enthusiast on ebay.fr

Three (Darios), with black coating and plates, have an enclosed *C* symbol on the glass...two also having the numbers 6.8. On their bases are the numbers 56.26. The third has 12.6 on the glass, and 56.24 on the base.
The fourth (Philips), with grey coating and plate, has 4.9 on the glass, and 7.51 on the base....????... You're much better at deciphering than I lol!! ....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Madhyamika said:


> I am indeed looking forward to my return to headphones, although it will be a few days yet as I’ve a busy weekend.
> 
> Fortunately no one in my house objects to speaker listening unless it’s late at night, but with my performance schedule, much of my listening does happen after the gigs are done and so late-night is probably about 30% of my available listening time these days.
> 
> ...



Wow Madhyamika...that's some project....GOOD LUCK! 

Nice that you're happy using Elise as preamp...and just wait 'til you hear a (good) harpsichord recording with EL38s in situ - through both speakers and headphones...truly magical .


----------



## Scutey

Madhyamika said:


> Hi Scutey,
> 
> I’ve really been liking the sound of Elise via the Elex headphones. They seem to synergize very well to my ear. Bear in mind that I’m relatively new to the head-fi world and most of my listening has been via speakers and as a live acoustic musician, but I’ve been very impressed with the wide open “natural” sound that I hear through the Focals. Via Elise with nicely settled tubes, lows on the Elex are present and well-defined, but not too much (I also have Meze Classic 99s closed-back which are a good bit too bass-heavy for me in most genres via this amp but otherwise are fun). Mids are very natural and balanced seeming, highs have lovely sparkle and air, and soundstage is the largest and best-defined I’ve heard on headphones. I’m very happy with them. I’ve never tried Sennheiser 800s and am curious about them, but otherwise I don’t really have much urge to try other cans at this point since I’m so happy with these paired with Elise. Ymmv with the Elears, of course, but they are quite similar to the Elex and I’ve heard a lot of good about them that sounds similar to why I’m enjoying the Elex.
> Enjoy!


Hi Jay,

Thanks for your opinion, because of the Elear/Elex's fairly low impedence I wasn't sure how well it would work with the Elise, but you've emphatically proved that it does, much appreciated!,  I'm looking for another pair of hp's to go with my Beyer DT 1990, so I will have to give them serious consideration!.


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## Madhyamika

Scutey said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> Thanks for your opinion, because of the Elear/Elex's fairly low impedence I wasn't sure how well it would work with the Elise, but you've emphatically proved that it does, much appreciated!,  I'm looking for another pair of hp's to go with my Beyer DT 1990, so I will have to give them serious consideration!.



Before purchasing my gear, I too was concerned about the impedance of the Focals, until I saw the 6moons review of the 2018 Euforia - according to the author, Euforia was being used to demo Focal’s Elear and Utopia headphones at a CanJam in London last year. The combination of the Feliks amp with the Elear and Utopia was so outstanding that the manager from Focal decided to switch to using Euforia as the main demo amp for Focal headphones in the future. 

That convinced me that it was probably a good bet that Elise and Elex would play well together too. Sure enough they synergize very nicely to my ears, despite what one might guess from convention wisdom around these relatively low impedance cans with an amp like this.


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## connieflyer

Time for a quick update, just more of the same.  Another twenty hours on these El38's and a noticeable change, the sound stage is more defined, and vast.  The Sennheiser 800 have never, ever sounded this good.  Had a friend over and he noticed it as well, he is lusting after them but he does not get them till I die, so hopefully that will be a while.  Listening to Rimsky-Korsakov Scherazade , and then Alison Krauss just blows me away. Sounds like she is on stage in front and the music just flows.  Then put on the Russian Easter with the St. Petersburg Choir and you can hear the reverberations from the old church, gives you chills. Of course, it could be the winter, and the heat has gone done, but I think it was the music. Well, won't bore you with incidentals, back to the music.  Have a great night folks


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## connieflyer

Hope these phones work out for you.  I have looked at the clear version a few times, but it seems whenever I do, I put these Senn 800 back on and I forget about the idea. Over the years, I have found that the better the whole signal path is the more resolving the final product is. I have used a few different phones over the years, starting with the  Koss Pro4AA, Pro4AAA, Sennheiser 25, HD380pro, Hd 650,700, and the Beyer T1 ver1, 400i and finally the 800.  And of these the most notable phone, for me, has been the 800 and with these it has been the El38 that has finally stopped my search for phones. It has transformed the 800 into a personal orchestra.


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## connieflyer

Another El38 just showed up on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL38-VALVE...h=item1a6ff74dc1:g:2QQAAOSwF5VcOTgA:rk:1:pf:0 almost bought it, but figured I have enough for now.


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## connieflyer

One other thing to consider with the El38, is how cool these run. I usually run mine for about 5-6 hours before a one hour rest or so,  and the amp never has gotten hot, or even close to it.  And they have such a nice glow at night. Even in daylight they glow nice and bright, gives you that nice tube look!


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## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Another El38 just showed up on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL38-VALVE...h=item1a6ff74dc1:g:2QQAAOSwF5VcOTgA:rk:1:pf:0 almost bought it, but figured I have enough for now.


I spotted that one a couple days ago, also, last Monday, I managed to pick up a NOS  CV450 for £30 so they are still out there!.


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## JazzVinyl

I would imagine Senn 800 is ideal for EL38 use as driver tubes, since the 800’s are known for being very active in the top end of the FR. 

Seems like a marriage made in heaven.


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Hi O.
> 
> I've a sneaking suspicion that these - mostly Dario Miniwatts - were made in France...especially as they were sold by a French enthusiast on ebay.fr
> 
> ...


I agree that they probably are French. Surely the Darios must be 1956 tubes with a YY.WW date. The other numbers are less clear…


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## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Oskari, since you are interested in Philips tubes, I think two of my Mullard branded EL38s (manufacturing codes 3A1 and 2F1) must have been made by Philips Eindhoven factory, because digits 3 and 2 indicate that.  Also, a 3 character date code  says that those are pre 1961 tubes (according to Brent Jesee)  but I can’t decipher the year.  The real mystery Is around the coated tube with a cryptic “1326/MS-“ code.  Surely pre 1960, but this country/date code is followed by a significant question mark “?” in all the available tube lists !!


No, I don't think that they are Eindhoven tubes. Those are earlier Mullard-only codes. Don't read them as Philips codes like that. The 3A1 may be a 1953 tube and the 2F1 may be a 1952 tube but I'm not sure about that.


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## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> I agree that they probably are French. Surely the Darios must be 1956 tubes with a YY.WW date. The other numbers are less clear…



Thanks O...and yes - I can almost smell the garlic on those Darios lol!! .

And all I can say is those French were certainly no slouches when it comes to making tubes. With even more time on them now, I have to admit they clearly outperform the later Mullard CV450-type EL38...and even (but less so) the earlier, coated Mullard. The already scintillating, wide soundstage of the clear glass tubes - as per @connieflyer 's findings, especially with his further burn-in! - has become even more wondrous...due mainly to an even finer pinpointing of individual instruments and voices within 3-dimensional space. How they can occupy so clearly different positions in my head is beyond comprehension - no other tubes have come anywhere near being able to match this conjuring trick. The same goes for note sustain and decay/intentional reverb...simply mesmerising.

The tragedy is that I haven't seen any sign whatsoever of these black-coated/plated Darios ever since I struck lucky....(and I've searched _everywhere!)._ Presumably not very many of them were made...(I'd rather think that than only having a short lifespan lol!! ).


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> I spotted that one a couple days ago, also, last Monday, I managed to pick up a NOS  CV450 for £30 so they are still out there!.



These clear glass Mullards certainly are, Scutey, thank goodness...but for how long, and at that sort of price, I have my doubts lol! . As for the 'All Blacks' (Dario MiniWatts), I wonder if we'll ever see their likes again?!! ...sigh...


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## hypnos1

Now then guys...all this talk of headphones has prompted me to say that my T1s (V1), with OCC solid silver- and copper-wired replacement cable, are now delivering a sound I never thought them capable of (even though I've always known them to have far greater potential than most folks appreciate lol! ). With my current tubes in situ, my Euforia is now streets ahead of my friend Acapella11's Questyle CMA800 amp and HD800s (pre- EL38s, that is). Previously, it was a very close match! So now I can't wait for him to bring his Senns once again...no doubt they too will sound different again. And I shall value his extremely keen ears' comparison with my own cans...not to mention looking forward to the comparison myself!

And another interesting, nay _encouraging_ discovery, is that my system's performance is now way ahead of my Hugo2's direct headphone out, and not _too _many miles off the sound I remember coming from Chord's £8500 Dave DAC/Amp at CanJam London 2017!!

And yes @Madhyamika , it certainly says something that Focal have chosen F-A's Euforia to use in showcasing their headphones...quite a coup IMHO ....WELL DONE F-A!! And I would imagine that, as I myself am convinced of, the Focal guys realise that very high quality associated gear will make this amp raise its game substantially, and use such accordingly lol!


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## Johnnysound (Jan 14, 2019)

Deep blue glow !!


Hi, @Madhyamika , and WOW !  what a project.. Four tube amps...Now that’s a lot of soldering (LOL) I was seriously considering the Bob Latino M-125 monoblocks (gorgeous  amps !) but had little time for DIY,   so I “downsized” and went for the new Jolida Fusion (80 w/channel) after a good offer.  Really nice sounding  amp,  but dual monoblocks are a different matter,  and they will sing driven by your Elise...with the SVS speakers.

BTW, since you are building them, have read somewhere that the EL38s work really fine in Bob Latino’s amps (with EL34 adaptors)
taking care of the right bias.  They also say that the “standard” BL amps bias range may not be enough, because the EL38s have quite a low bias point, but they solved it changing a simple resistor.  If two per side sound so good & powerful, then  8 of them in dual mono will surely rock !!  better than the standard KT88s,  IMHO.

A little less power on paper, but still a lot: I estimate four of them will deliver easily around 100+ “tube watts” per side, much more than enough for your  speakers...in fact, by my own experiences they do sound  more powerful than most “KT” tubes (regardless of power ratings) because they do not strain a bit at high volumes...I bet that two quartets in mono will  be mightily powerful in real life terms.  And the SQ will be vastly superior than that of the KT88s...Just some ideas.. but if you like the “blue glow” there is no other option !


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## JazzVinyl

Johnnysound said:


> Deep blue glow !!
> 
> 
> Hi, @Madhyamika , and WOW !  what a project.. Four tube amps...Now that’s a lot of soldering (LOL) I was seriously considering the Bob Latino M-125 monoblocks (gorgeous  amps !) but had little time for DIY,   so I “downsized” and went for the new Jolida Fusion (80 w/channel) after a good offer.  Really nice sounding  amp,  but dual monoblocks are a different matter...and they will sing driven by your Elise...and the SVS speakers.
> ...



How many volts to the plates of the EL38 in this configuration?  I have heard the C3g's will throw the "cobalt glow" too, with 450 volts applied to the plates...


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## Johnnysound (Jan 13, 2019)

JazzVinyl said:


> How many volts to the plates of the EL38 in this configuration?  I have heard the C3g's will throw the "cobalt glow" too, with 450 volts applied to the plates...



Hi JV:  not sure, really.  They work under EL34 parameters in the amp...with a lower bias point.


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## Madhyamika (Jan 13, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Deep blue glow !!
> 
> 
> Hi, @Madhyamika , and WOW !  what a project.. Four tube amps...Now that’s a lot of soldering (LOL) I was seriously considering the Bob Latino M-125 monoblocks (gorgeous  amps !) but had little time for DIY,   so I “downsized” and went for the new Jolida Fusion (80 w/channel) after a good offer.  Really nice sounding  amp,  but dual monoblocks are a different matter...and they will sing driven by your Elise...and the SVS speakers.
> ...



Hi Johnny!

Part of what got me interested in Elise/Euforia in the first place was the ability to have a high-quality tube headphone amp and good simple preamp all in one. I also was originally seriously considering the Jolida amps and pre-amps as a possible path, but ultimately I was most drawn to the thriving and enthusiastic online communities and obvious high value to dollar ratio of the F-A headamps and the ST-120/M-125 amp kits. I’m very excited to hear what Elise will sound like driving those m-125 monoblocks once I’ve got them built and warmed up! Almost finished with my first amp build, which is a stereo ST-120. I’ll use that for a bit for music listening to get used to having an all-tube rig driven by Elise while I build the M-125s - the monoblicks will ultimately be up front once they are built and the stereo amp will move to running the two surround speakers.

Wow, though - EL38s powering all of that could be something! I’ve been planning on using KT-120s - they sound great and are a bit easier to find... and besides, I’d hate to single-handedly deplete both the worldwide EL38 market AND the tattered remains of my bank account... still, what a fantastic sound that could be if they work as well in the Latino amps as they do in our F-A ones! Perhaps I’ll have to go read up a bit more on that 

PS - to answer your speakers question: I’ve currently got SVS Ultra bookshelves up front crossed over to a PB-1000 sub. Eventually those will move to surround duties and for stereo listening I’ll either move to Ultra towers and subs, or more likely Triton One.R towers. Gotta save up my nickels for a while longer first though...


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## connieflyer

You go right ahead and deplete the supply of el 38 with a project like that that would be fantastic. I'm sure they'll be enough just satisfy the needs of the Feliks app groups. I am using the SBS Ultra Towers and the ultra Center Channel and they are really terrific. You already know what the bookshelves sound like the towers are just a little bit more than that. But as far as the El 38, those are going to be one of the best additions that the Feliks amp can use. Of this I am positive. The more of these burn in the better they get. I was just experiencing the instrument placement that H was talking about and it is surreal. Have a great time building those amps, and keep posting here


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## DecentLevi (Jan 14, 2019)

Meanwhile things are heating up on the Glenn Amp thread with the EL38's stirring a bit of controversy (I saw this one comin'), things like Flavor OTM, compatibility issues, even EL3N burn-in, etc. See these few pages:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1630#post-14712825


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## DecentLevi (Jan 14, 2019)

Also I want to say congrats to @Madhyamika for what seems an all around epic job custom building amps, not to mention the scale and caliber... going by photos I saw online anyway of those Bob Latino amps, which are stunning! I would enjoy to see photos of the whole amps too when you can. And I take it you are either using proper gauge copper or pure silver for internal wiring, right? The latter is much of what set's the Euforia apart from the Elise, anyway. Oh also I wonder if a direct to DAC connection may actually have a benefit over a _tube_-buffer to _tube _amps.


JazzVinyl said:


> I would imagine Senn 800 is ideal for EL38 use as driver tubes, since the 800’s are known for being very active in the top end of the FR.
> 
> Seems like a marriage made in heaven.


Trailing what you said above and seeing how all the top proclaimed pairings with EL38's are with fairly bright headphones (HD-800, Focal Elex if the tuning is much like the Elear which is also similar to HD-600, and especially the T1's) this can be a good thing for anyone with either bright preferences and/or bright headphones, but I suppose time will tell if they are bright enough to satisfy the somewhat more popular dark leaning signature headphones for example LCD-2 or HD-650. No problem either way really, given the tubes' unmatched reviews, and since some of us have a variety of headphones.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 14, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Meanwhile things are heating up on the Glenn Amp thread with the EL38's stirring a bit of controversy (I saw this one comin'), things like Flavor OTM, compatibility issues, even EL3N burn-in, etc. See these few pages:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1630#post-14712825



Hi DL...glad you can at least look in now and again while in foreign lands. When will you be able to see just what we've been running on about for quite a while now? 

Anyway, your mention of what's been happening elsewhere has prompted me to clarify certain points that would appear to need repeating lol ...(not that they really need it, given the results of my, and others', efforts these past few years!).

1. Re 'FOTM', these EL38s deserve more the nomenclature 'Flavour of the Century' IMHO! And can I help it if my searchings do indeed manage to spotlight tubes that keep on improving on their predecessors? And the fact that most have not even been properly configured for is all the more amazing...and highlights beautifully just how flexible/versatile F-A's amps are. Plus, the fact that the latter EL families of tubes -* as triode-strapped pentodes *- have proven not just to _work_ in them but obviously perform to an extremely high standard, shows that conventional wisdom as to what is or isn't suitable in a particular amp is sometimes way off the mark! And not only have many folks confirmed my own findings, but our amps have shown no signs of anything untoward by having them in their circuits - the exact opposite in fact. I personally have found them to be the* least *troublesome of any I have used for years now...especially the latest EL32 and EL38...including those configured for!

2. Again, conventional wisdom dictates that OTL amps do not perform all that well with low-impedance headphones. This is something that Feliks Audio deliberately looked to address, and obviously succeeded very well indeed, given the good reports from those with said cans...ergo our amps do not need high-impedance ones to really shine, and which is yet another bonus for us all here lol.

3. And lastly, something on a more personal level, I'm sure you'd all agree that I try to approach each new protege with the closest scrutiny when assessing its potential. And only after long, in-depth analysis - and subsequent progressive reports - do I heartily recommend others to give it a try...if they so wish!  I have been doing this with many tubes over the past few years, and think I now know the qualities/nuances/limitations of Elise and Euforia better than most (hopefully lol!!). I personally don't often see in other forums/threads the same degree of extensive, long term study applied to any single tube...which is the only way to really appreciate/understand a tube's true character IMHO...

   And so I find it somewhat saddening - and not a little insulting - when others elsewhere insinuate that I am some kind of 'greenhorn' in these matters and, by implication therefore, that I don't know what I'm talking about. Personal preferences are indeed one thing, but I always attempt to apply objective, unbiased scrutiny to something I have come to love...albeit rather late in life!! 

Ah well, enough of the soapbox...sorry to have caused any indigestion/nausea/hilarity...but at my time of life, I don't worry _too_ much!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Thank you for the update, H, having followed along your efforts on our behalf the last couple of years, I would say that your success in finding and adapting tubes that work well in the Feliks amps, is very obvious.  Never had a problem with any of the tube combinations using the Elise amp, and with the Euforia , no problem what so ever. I think that the Feliks team, over the years, both developing and producing some great amps, have the necessary expertise when it comes to amplifier circuitry.  Looking at the essential design of their products, you can see the care that goes into these, and from an esthetics point of view, they certainly come up with some beautiful designs.  The low key, slightly industrial design on the Elise/Euforia make it a very nice piece to add to your system.  It is both understated and sleek.  The size if also a bonus, as they do not take up a lot of space, that other amps seem to need. The versatility of the Euforia, is quite amazing, the number of tubes that can be safely used, so long as you stay within the parameters of the design. I eagerly await the release of their latest amp, using a true top of the line tube, the 2A3, legendary sound and having the versatility of a speaker amp and headphone amp, will be very interesting indeed.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Hi guys.

It would appear from a certain amount of derision somewhere else (courtesy of DL!), that I need to qualify/explain my rather bold statement that my current system is delivering the kind of sound that _approaches_ surprisingly well that which I remember from Chord's 'Dave' some while back...at CanJam London 2017.

There are a good few factors that are undoubtedly helping such a hard-to-believe performance :

1. My own mains conditioning - PowerInspired Regenerator to AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced w/Advanced Filter System is surely far better than the mains supply at the hotel venue.
2. I doubt very much that they were using cables throughout made from top flight mono-crystal OCC solid silver and copper wires, which would cost £1000s on the commercial market...including within the power cables.
3. My interconnect and headphone cables are hard-wired direct to the internal wiring of Euforia and headphones (and to Hugo2's _internal_ hp connectors, which are far superior to its RCA line out connections, both coming direct from H2's FPGA chips).
4. The Dario MiniWatt EL38s I now have in Euforia are delivering *by far* the best sound I have ever heard from her...especially as I again adapt them using UP-OCC wiring, and directly to the tubes' own wires (plus also ensuring direct wire to socket contact, not just pin contact).

And so I'm quite sure all these factors combine to take my system's performance to a level a good bit higher than would otherwise be the case...and to one that is indeed hard to believe. I only wish other folks could hear it for themselves...which will hopefully be the case when member Acapella11 (with typically Teutonic precision!) is next able to visit lol . Of course, what I really need to do is A/B with the Dave here at home, but I'm afraid I'm not _that_ obsessive/rich alas!! 

Suffice to say that I have no desire/need whatsoever to spend anything like that kind of money...very much a case of _massive_ 'Law of Diminishing Returns' lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Good day to you all.  Nice explanation on what you are hearing and why, H, I seriously doubt those (others) that think with their mouth instead of their brain have taken the time and effort to maximize their amps.  I am sure if they put the money into their own amps, they might find that they are more capable. The amount of time that you have put into the updating of your amp and system is impressive to say the least. It would be difficult, to say the least, to have all of your equipment moved off site, to another venue, for testing and comparing to other equipment. It all works together, as a unit, and if separated would not yield the same results. I have experienced results similar to yours with the tube upgrades, all though I am sure yours would have to be greater with all the improvements in signal path. It is easy for the uninformed to make snap and derisive judgements while among others of a similar ilk, without actually hearing and experiencing your system. Poor sportsmanship at the very least. I am happy with the system as it is, now with all that goes into it, and am glad for your journey looking to make your system as good as it can be. The benefit to the rest of us is clear. Those that try the tube upgrades, get a much better sounding piece of equipment to enjoy.


----------



## hypnos1

Many thanks for your kind words of encouragement @connieflyer ...much appreciated. And yes, without actually hearing my system in person, no valid judgment can possibly be made lol! 

On the subject of Chord's wonderful equipment, I have long believed that the genius Rob Watts's goal has always been to attempt a combination of the best of SS with that of tubes, especially the _smoothness_ of the latter. And good though Hugo2's hp output is, I'm not the only one to find that as DAC to a *good* tube amp, the sound is definitely much smoother, without any loss of H2's admirable qualities. I personally found this even with my previous tubes, but my current setup takes things to another level entirely...to the point where I would dearly love to see what RW's recent 'M Scaler' coupled to H2 could do for Euforia. But at £3,500, I fear this too would be a bad case of 'LODR'!! ...pity lol!


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## hypnos1

Guys. For anyone looking for clear glass (Mullard) EL38s, here's a link to a French supplier who has them for 29 Euros each (don't know shipping cost, though) : http://www.e44.com/composants/compo...cv450-6cn6-5p29-pentode-8-pins-EL38-TUBE.html

And don't forget the Billington Export guys here in the UK, especially for multiples or grade1 used : https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/...ics.co.uk/wholesale/results.asp?ProdCode=el38


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## mordy (Jan 15, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Guys. For anyone looking for clear glass (Mullard) EL38s, here's a link to a French supplier who has them for 29 Euros each (don't know shipping cost, though) : http://www.e44.com/composants/compo...cv450-6cn6-5p29-pentode-8-pins-EL38-TUBE.html
> 
> And don't forget the Billington Export guys here in the UK, especially for multiples or grade1 used : https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/...ics.co.uk/wholesale/results.asp?ProdCode=el38


Here is another auction - shipping to the US is less than $6:
Sorry - somehow I cannot copy this page, but go to French eBay and type in Three Mullard EL38 and you will find it. Bidding is up to $22 ATM.


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## Scutey

mordy said:


> Here is another auction - shipping to the US is less than $6:
> Sorry - somehow I cannot copy this page, but go to French eBay and type in Three Mullard EL38 and you will find it. Bidding is up to $22 ATM.


I bought a single NOS CV450 from this seller, was exactly as described, posted quickly and very well packed, seems genuine.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 16, 2019)

Hi @mordy and @Scutey ...this auction is actually on ebay.co.uk : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thee-Mul...h=item3d7ef9d15d:g:tRUAAOSwlkpcM7Rh:rk:6:pf:0

And I would advise anyone to try and get photos of all three tubes, being used - especially of the plates. I bought one from this seller a while back and the plate coating looked like crazy paving...won't even bother putting it in my amp lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. I personally would rather rely on Billington Export's grade1 used tubes, if going for used ...


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## connieflyer

Well, it looks like the market is responding to demand.  Soooooo, perhaps a couple of El38 Phillips of the balloon type will, sometime appear!  Okay, I am not going to hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.  Some one could find them in an old amp, or someone that did not like them (reallly?) or were excess. We all have to dream occaisonally


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## mordy

Patience always pays off - sometimes I look for tubes for many months and suddenly they pop up.........


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## Scutey

And usually when you least expect it, waited months for some coated CV1052, not a sniff, then managed to bag 4 in less than 10 days, they _*will t*_urn up at some point .


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## JazzVinyl

Scutey said:


> And usually when you least expect it, waited months for some coated CV1052, not a sniff, then managed to bag 4 in less than 10 days, they _*will t*_urn up at some point .



Hmmmm....

I have been looking for a “CK5694” tube for years.  

Own two adapters to 6SN7....one tube turned up on that auction site and went for almost $250.00 which is too rich for me....

Anyone need a 5694 to 6SN7 adapter?


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Patience always pays off - sometimes I look for tubes for many months and suddenly they pop up.........



Always mordy?..._wish it did lol!!_...




Scutey said:


> And usually when you least expect it, waited months for some coated CV1052, not a sniff, then managed to bag 4 in less than 10 days, they _*will t*_urn up at some point .



Hi Scutey...I bet you a fiver 4 of the Darios don't turn up in the foreseeable future...and I certainly won't be putting mine on the market lol!! ...(and this is a bet I hope to actually _lose!!!_ ).



connieflyer said:


> Well, it looks like the market is responding to demand.  Soooooo, perhaps a couple of El38 Phillips of the balloon type will, sometime appear!  Okay, I am not going to hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.  Some one could find them in an old amp, or someone that did not like them (reallly?) or were excess. We all have to dream occaisonally



Now then cf - and all to whom it may concern(!) - sometimes Muhammad must indeed go to the Mountain, rather than the other way round lol!...ie. in my searches for these Holy of Holy Grails, I discovered via the web (not fleabay!) some Mullards and Philips - both NOS and used - listed by a guy in Holland, but no obvious sales page. So I emailed him for more exact details and photos, which followed the next day. And although not the HofHGs, the Philips tubes turned out to be the next best thing - the larger 'balloon' type (like old Mullards), with black coating and black plates, but minus the ceramic post insulators. And just 30 Euros for the NOS tube and 15 Euros for the used one measuring 80mA (which is darned good, given my one at just 38mA sounds equally as good - and loud - as those at 90+mA!!). 

So as soon as they arrive and all bodes well with them, I shall post a link to his email address, if anyone is interested in seeing what he has left...
And which means cf, my ol' fruit, that my original 'balloon' Mullards will be winging their way to you, for you to see how they perform in your own setup, compared to the 'pretty ones' lol ...and no obligation!!...(apart from honest, objective assessment...I shall have them back if they don't bring anything more to _your _table...no problem!! 

And so guys, therefore, it sometimes pays to be _pro-active_ in the search for our hearts' desires, no?! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Now then folks...time for a roundup of the different versions of the EL38 that I've managed to find so far - listed in order of what I personally have found to perform best *in my system*...and with accompanying photos :

1. Dario MiniWatt (Philips, France)...black internal coating & plates; ceramic post insulators; gold signal grid wires, all other wires copper.
2. Shared place...a. Mullard/Philips large 'balloon'...black coating & plates; all wires copper, but _without _gold signal grid wires and ceramic insulators.
    Ditto             ...b. Philips dark grey coating & plates; ceramic post insulators; gold signal grid wires, all other wires copper.
3. Clear glass 'pretty' later production Mullard (and other-labelled) EL38/CV450 (military)...no internal coating; grey plates; ceramic insulators; less copper in the wiring (and that of the internal anode section coming off a spur of different metal); but again with gold signal grid wires.

I must however qualify the above listing...I suspect that most differences will only be clearly noticed in _highly resolving_ systems...preferably with highly conditioned mains power supply lol! . 
But whichever of these tubes are gracing Euforia, they are sure to take this amp into much more exalted territory...... :

1. Darios...

 

2a ...(The used 80mA Philips 'balloon' from Holland)        

 

3. 'Pretty' later Mullard EL38/CV450...with either double 'O' or 'upturned dish' getter(s)...doesn't seem to make much difference soundwise.

 

So guys, once again....GOOD HUNTING!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Jan 16, 2019)

Let's see if Mtn. Dew just may be that special missing ingredient to pair with them Darios!


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Let's see if Mtn. Dew just may be that special missing ingredient to pair with them Darios!



Heh heh DL...glad to say these Darios - or any other of the EL38 family - don't actually_ need _anything else to pair with...apart from the very best accompanying gear one can muster...(and to Hell with the cost lol!!! ). 

Now then, globetrotter...just when are you gonna be able to savour some quality Euforia time once more...surely withdrawal is setting in big time by now?!! ....


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## Johnnysound (Jan 17, 2019)

More blue glow....very clear from above, faint from the front.  Red lights below are (correct) bias indicators. Nice, but...what causes this ?    In a power amp the EL38s are pushed “harder” and run at higher plate voltages than in Euforia (I assume), the same as EL34s, but even so, the voltages involved are well whithin the tube specs...

BTW, H1, you will like this: the two drivers at the extreme left and right are Miniwatt Dario E180CC, from 1969 (foil getters) made in the Philips  Heerlen factory (easily identified by a little triangle).  I have another pair by Radiotechnique France (RT) also made in Heerlen.  Of course, different types, different factories, and giant Philips/Mullard had many plants...but are you sure your EL38s Miniwatt Dario were made in France ?

Anyway, “Dario” was  Miniwatt premium line, and the E180CCs are kind of exotic, “ultra linear” substitutes for the 12AT7/ECC81/CV4024 family.   Fantastic sounding  triodes, extremely sweet and extended, the very best I have heard in this type (followed closely by the Brimars).  Maybe all Darios have kind of a “family sound” (like the Tung-Sols) ?  Who knows !!

In this amp, the drivers interact directly with Euforia as preamp (before the powers) and the CV1052s never sounded so good: their neutral, controlled, kind of “dark” sound (in the best sense of the term) was enhanced by the airy sweetness and sheer transparency of the Darios.  All this expressed in full glory by the EL38s...as I said, one quality that impresses me the most about this tube (as a power) is its accuracy reproducing all types of music, and at the same time revealing the subtlest nuances of the previous tubes in the chain, with power and refinement...and they are not fully burned in yet.


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## mordy (Jan 17, 2019)

Hi Johnnysound,
Here is a nice article about blue tube glow with many beautiful pictures:
http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/blueglow/blueglow.htm




PS: I just acquired a Philips Herleen 1966 E180CC which I am in the process of burning in - was told that it takes some 40 hours for it to show it's best....It is a rebranded tube with the name Top Vac Radio Tube.


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## Johnnysound (Jan 18, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> Here is a nice article about blue tube glow with many beautiful pictures:
> http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/blueglow/blueglow.htm
> 
> ...



Hi Mordy:

Many thanks, the article is an encyclopedia about blue tube glow (LOL) !  There is another one in “The Tube Store”:

“FLUORESCENCE (Photo 1)- this type of glow is usually violet in color and most noticeable around the inside surface of the glass bulb. It is most pronounced on power tubes and is the product of electron bombardment of the glass taking place within the tube. It generally has no adverse affect upon receiver performance, and in fact, tubes displaying this phenomenon are particularly good with respect to gas content. “

Amazing, the blue (violet) glow, far from being a problem, may indicate a tube with a superior vacuum  !

I am sure you will like the E180CC...


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## hypnos1 (Jan 18, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> More blue glow....very clear from above, faint from the front.  Red lights below are (correct) bias indicators. Nice, but...what causes this ?    In a power amp the EL38s are pushed “harder” and run at higher plate voltages than in Euforia (I assume), the same as EL34s, but even so, the voltages involved are well whithin the tube specs...
> 
> BTW, H1, you will like this: the two drivers at the extreme left and right are Miniwatt Dario E180CC, from 1969 (foil getters) made in the Philips  Heerlen factory (easily identified by a little triangle).  I have another pair by Radiotechnique France (RT) also made in Heerlen.  Of course, different types, different factories, and giant Philips/Mullard had many plants...but are you sure your EL38s Miniwatt Dario were made in France ?
> 
> ...



Just LOVE that blue glow J!  And certainly must be due to being pushed much harder - as pentodes, rather than triode-strapped (as in Euforia). And does appear to have no negative impact on sound...unlike the kind of blue light that denotes impending arcing lol!!  What you _don't_ want to see of course is a nice(?!!) red glow on the plates...which is, apparently, what can possibly happen if trying to substitute an EL38 for a higher-spec'd EL37 (with higher bias).

And all I can say is that F-A's circuit configuration - including bias settings - are managing to provide perfect ground in which these tubes can flourish, despite 'theoretical' misgivings lol! 
Everything you describe about their performance as powers in your Jolida is *precisely *how they sound in Euforia...quite amazing, really (as I've said _many_ times before! ). And perhaps even more surprisingly, I personally (and others) have found them to be perfect drivers to their power function. Mind you, this extra bonus may very well depend upon the rest of one's system...especially the DAC and headphones used. These EL38s respond best to gear that is _highly_ resolving, and which my Hugo2 DAC is obviously matching extremely well (confirmed in this aspect - and others, such as soundstage, by Darko's rave review of H2 : https://darko.audio/2017/09/top-of-the-pops-chord-electronics-outstanding-hugo-2/

Re. the Dario EL38s, the numbering on them is very confusing, to say the least! It doesn't seem to fit neatly into the Philips codes listing...especially as to country/factory of manufacture. The only ones that seem most likely are - as @Oskari mentioned - the 2 for year and 2 for week on the base. And as 'Dario' could be from France, Italy or Holland, things get even more confusing lol! My, and O's hunch is that they are indeed French Philips...which IMHO is reinforced by their being listed by a French enthusiast (and they are quite Nationalistic lol! )...but is no guarantee, of course!! A further possible clue might be that he also had 2 identical-looking, silver-banded _Mazdas_ for sale, which I'm sure would have been the _French_ Mazda as opposed to the British version...

Whatever, these Darios certainly are top flight tubes, and now that I have 4 of them in place (my low-measuring cheapie fourth actually turns out to be another Dario, not 'ordinary' Philips after all! ). And they are delivering even more detail; clarity; impressive bass; sparkling treble and mind-boggling instrument separation/placement within a soundstage to die for (assisted no end by Hugo2, no doubt lol! ).

And so a pic of just what is keeping me on cloud 9..._permanently!!_ :



Mind you, I do miss the look of the 'pretty ones'...  :



Hmmm....actually, the more I look at the Darios, the more I'm liking their appearance lol! ....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Hope you too can soon discover what 4x EL38s do for _your_ Euforia, J...(waiting with anticipation...)...


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## barontan2418 (Jan 18, 2019)

Just in case of interest. The store below has 5 Mullard EL38 nos for £20 each.

http://markhindes.easywebstore.co.uk/EL38_A2PBB.aspx


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## ZRW0 (Jan 20, 2019)

Hello,

First happy new year to all ! Sorry, for my late vows and message on this forum, I've been delayed by few set backs.

More especially, my Chord Hugo2 which died. Again.
Yes, again. The usb connection vanishes and it's no longer recognized by any computer. It's the second time my unit has this same issue in a year !
I contacted the saler, who whispered the problem wasn't that rare on this product.
And the return procedure to get it repaired is quite painful as well. While still under guarantee, the French importer has changed : you now have to provide many proofs that the product really belongs to you, send pictures of the package, return the package to Chord at your own fees ((!!!) actually advance them ; the previous importer was taking the return fees at his charge)...
That was enough for me to get mad at Chord (whereas I was actually looking at the eventuality to try a HugoTT2 or a Dave when my unit died). I'll make the unit repaired as new and will sell it afterwards.
I then went to visit the shop where I bought my McIntosh. I was proposed to try some of their DACs, including a MOON 280D I quickly fell in love with.
I came there with my Euforia and Hugo2 (using toslink) to compare its performance against the MOON, and was lent a McIntosh amp and same B&Ws as I own for my trials.
Overall, the Hugo2 has a wider soundstage, but everything else (vocals, spatialization - especially depth and height which are almost absent on the Hugo2 - tonal balance) is better to my ears with the MOON.
Focusing on Headphones only, the Hugo2 is probably better as it was mainly designed for this purpose. but with Speaker systems, other DACs in the same price range can do as well if not better IMHO.
The 10 ears warranty achieved to convince me to go with the MOON.



On the EL38 subject, I'm relatively happy with the quad I bought.
Why only relatively ? Because one of the 4 military CV450 I bought is humming a little bit.
Yes, just a little bit, It's subtle. But it's just enough so that I can hear it.
The humming tube is actually catching the noise of the Euforia power supply.
Whatever the volume knob setting, this slight background noise is still the same, at the same level. (Lucky me ! As usual... BTW, ferrite chokes don't help).

Nevertheless, thanks again to H1 for the EL38 discovery !
The quad EL38s on the Euforia has been an absolute game changer for my headphones ! (but not for preamp usage - here KR-VT231 and TS-7236 remains the best combo to drive the Mc).
I own a HD800S and a Kennerton Tror. Contrary to what its specsheet seems to indicate, the Tror isn't that easy to drive and its basses can be very lean if not fed with enough energy.
With the quad EL38s, the soundstage is absolutely wide, open and the basses slam like never on the HD800S, but WOW ! What to say about the same EL38s on the Tror !
Here the Tror is so better defined and accurate and vivid than the HD800 !
Believe me, the gap that was already certain between the HD800S and the Tror has gained several order of magnitudes with the EL38s. The Tror is now far ahead the HD800S in all domains !
(...but comfort, here the HD800 will always remain ahead whatever the tubes used  ).

Cheers,

Erwan.


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## connieflyer

zrwo, sorry to hear your troubles with the Hugo.  Such a disappointment, when you have gear that should be so much better, have problems. Not so much the problems, but the fact it is recurring.  And the biggest disappointment is the customer service that they provided you under warranty.  Totally unacceptable. If they had a problem with their dealer, that is their problem not yours.  Well, at least you have found a better alternative.  Hopefully, the humming tube can be replaced, there are still some available. I agree with your findings on the performance of the El 38 tubes, they have made such a difference on my system. Now, awaiting the arrival of the balloon El 38's from H, just tracked them and they are in fact in town, and should be delivered today, providing the snow storm does not hinder them.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Just in case of interest. The store below has 5 Mullard EL38 nos for £20 each.
> 
> http://markhindes.easywebstore.co.uk/EL38_A2PBB.aspx



Brilliant find bt...that's got to be the best price around for NOS Mullards...WELL DONE!


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## hypnos1 (Jan 19, 2019)

Hi @ZRW0 . Good to hear from you again...but not so good re. your troubles lol!!

That USB issue with Hugo2 doesn't sound very clever at all...shouldn't really happen with something at that price . I personally only ever use coaxial digital...no USB for me lol!! 
But I confess to being somewhat intrigued by your findings re. its soundstage. In my system at least - and with modded T1s - it is truly the most amazing 3-dimensional stage I have ever heard...full stop!...strange.... However, I'm glad you've found something you're happier with...and that's a fantastic warranty (10 yrs)!!!
ps. Did you try contacting Chord direct in the UK? They're usually very helpful indeed...

Sorry too you have a humming EL38. Was it new? If so..._send it back!!_ (Not the adapter, I presume...). I may well have a NOS CV450 and NOS EL38 to spare, if you're interested...just PM me...

Although Wim de Rotte of electrontubes.nl doesn't seem to have any more of the old 'balloon' Philips tubes left (I snaffled 'em!), it looks like he still has a new (Philips, ie. Mullard) later EL38 at 30 Euros and 2 or 3 used 38s at 15 Euros each. The used Philips balloon that arrived today looks almost like new, and tested at 80mA (89mA being 100%)...which is indeed therefore hardly used. A snip also at 15 Euros...so hopefully the used tubes I mentioned are pretty well just as good (he will send photos and test results)...email him at electronenbuizen@planet.nl (His shipping and packaging are first class).

Hey @connieflyer ...don't even _think_ about bad weather hindering the passage of those beauties lol! Pray, pray...and pray again for good fortune - to whomsoever will listen!!! 

Am glad you still love the EL38...and look forward to hearing your verdict on the 'All Blacks' Mullards (but don't forget they too will need some more time on them yet, even though used tubes lol...).
But seriously, I too hope they arrive today...which will be pretty darned good, all things considered!


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Brilliant find bt...that's got to be the best price around for NOS Mullards...WELL DONE!



Hi hypnos 1. Was wondering if you had come across these United Electron tubes? They sound better to me than the standard  Mullard's IMHO. Pity one of them is a little microphonic. Size wise they are larger and have black plates but otherwise not nearly so well made.


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## connieflyer

Hi H, not giving up on the Postal Service yet. Just got in from shoveling the snow, have about 3in on the ground and it just keeps coming steadily so no telling how much we're going to get when it's all over. I noticed that I'm getting older took longer and was harder to shovel the snow! Figured if I got the snow off wouldn't have any excuse not to come to the door with the tubes!


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## hypnos1 (Jan 19, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hi hypnos 1. Was wondering if you had come across these United Electron tubes? They sound better to me than the standard  Mullard's IMHO. Pity one of them is a little microphonic. Size wise they are larger and have black plates but otherwise not nearly so well made.



_Very interesting_, bt!

Must admit I know nothing about 'United Electron', but it's fascinating to hear your own verdict on their performance, compared to the 'standard' Mullard EL38 (clear glass).

Those UEs look identical to the 'balloon' Mullards/Philips I've mentioned previously - apart from the black coating of the latter. But they all have the black plates lol! And I too found them to perform slightly better than the later, clear glass versions...which certainly _are _better constructed. Plus, my 2 Mullards were also very slightly microphonic, but silicone rings (one on each) easily restored perfect silence...(and hopefully still is the case when they reach you in the USA @connieflyer ! ). Indeed, they're not at all far behind the 'All Blacks' Darios soundwise, which have in addition the ceramic insulator posts and gold signal grid wires of the clear glass 38s.

And so another 38 version to look out for!!...WELL DONE!...


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## connieflyer

Well H, I should be able to tell you if I see any difference in these balloon tubes compared to the pretty ones! Packages have been delivered just now, will have to wait until they warm up in the package so there's no condensation on them. Shouldn't be more than an hour or two. Take care and thank you very much


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well H, I should be able to tell you if I see any difference in these balloon tubes compared to the pretty ones! Packages have been delivered just now, will have to wait until they warm up in the package so there's no condensation on them. Shouldn't be more than an hour or two. Take care and thank you very much



Great news, cf...and good thinking re. letting those tubes warm up indoors before even opening the parcel lol! ...looks like you're getting some proper Winter weather now!! ...(hope your poor ears aren't feeling the cold...they need to be in TOP condition for your assessment duties lol ).

But above all...ENJOY!...that's what it's all about, no?...(Hopefully that's what I can start doing more of, now the analytical scrutiny can be eased back somewhat - it's hard, tiring work!! ).


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> _Very interesting_, bt!
> 
> Must admit I know nothing about 'United Electron', but it's fascinating to hear your own verdict on their performance, compared to the 'standard' Mullard EL38 (clear glass).
> 
> ...


Hypnos 1.
Sorry to be a pain but could you direct me to where you purchased silicon rings from in the UK, how many used per tube and what size. If you ever get to Leeds there's a beer waiting for you. Thanks.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 19, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hypnos 1.
> Sorry to be a pain but could you direct me to where you purchased silicon rings from in the UK, how many used per tube and what size. If you ever get to Leeds there's a beer waiting for you. Thanks.



Hi bt...no pain, glad to be of help where possible!

Me not being mean(?!), I certainly don't believe in paying over the odds just for a rubber ring to reduce tube vibrations lol! . So I just hunted down my supply of rubber 'O' gasket rings - surprising how handy they can be! - et voila, my largest (22mm internal diameter) ones fit the bill perfectly...albeit a rather _tight_ fit! Perhaps slightly larger might be a bit easier! And I myself found that just one - at the lower part of the tubes - did the job just fine. Can't remember where I got them I'm afraid, but it would have been some kind of hardware store or motor accessories shop. Hope this gives you some idea at least of what to look for...doesn't need to be some over-priced 'audio' product IMHO!! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

ps Photo of said goodies :


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## barontan2418 (Jan 19, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...no pain, glad to be of help where possible!
> 
> Me not being mean(?!), I certainly don't believe in paying over the odds just for a rubber ring to reduce tube vibrations lol! . So I just hunted down my supply of rubber 'O' gasket rings - surprising how handy they can be! - et voila, my largest (22mm internal diameter) ones fit the bill perfectly...albeit a rather _tight_ fit! Perhaps slightly larger might be a bit easier! And I myself found that just one - at the lower part of the tubes - did the job just fine. Can't remember where I got them I'm afraid, but it would have been some kind of hardware store or motor accessories shop. Hope this gives you some idea at least of what to look for...doesn't need to be some over-priced 'audio' product IMHO!! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ
> 
> ...



Many thanks.


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## connieflyer

Well after having the new El38 balloon tubes from H, let me say I am impressed.  Was thinking that I would have to listen carefully to hear the difference between these and the "pretty" ones.  Wrong again, first couple of notes it was obvious, the initial sound was more open, sound stage in larger than the others. First thought was perhaps I should duck tape the phones on  my head to make sure they would not extend off my head.  Diana Krall, Alison Krauss, Yanni, Cynthia Jordan both in 44.1 16 bit and HD flac. Very nice indeed. Then put on some Amber Rubarth, the HD recording binaural of Sessions  from the 17th Ward, these are some amazing recordings. I will give you a youtube link not HD but should present an idea of what I am hearing   if you like it, her whole album is listed there.  The individual sounds in the sound stage is extremely good. Another remarkably sound is from 2 Cellos, the interplay of the instruments is a great sound       .  Well, have to get back to the music.  If you have a chance to pick up the balloons tubes well worth the effort.


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## connieflyer

Forgot the pictures, daaa.


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## barontan2418

Hi Connieflyer.

I notice your using the pair of balloon tubes as drivers, I have mine as powers. Wondering what your reasoning was?


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## connieflyer (Jan 19, 2019)

Well, as I have found with the EL 38's in general, the differ more than normal. H told me that these were better performers than the "pretty" ones, and I figured if so, then my reasoning is that "usually" the driver may have more effect on the sound than the power tube.  I will try them in the power slot later and see if it is so.  H told me to try it both ways and see what I thought, so he must have heard something as well.  Won't know until I try them in powers, but these seem more resolving and a wider more comprehensive sound stage than the other el38's I have.  And these may not be burned in all the way yet.  Don't know how many hours he has in them, but he mentioned that as well, so am comparing this to the El38's that I have with over a hundred hours on them. If you get a chance, try them as drivers and see what you think, and let us know. Everyone's equipment is different not to mention ears! So it would be nice to see what you think on these in comparison.


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## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Well, as I have found with the EL 38's in general, the differ more than normal. H told me that these were better performers than the "pretty" ones, and I figured if so, then my reasoning is that "usually" the driver may have more effect on the sound than the power tube.  I will try them in the power slot later and see if it is so.  H told me to try it both ways and see what I thought, so he must have heard something as well.  Won't know until I try them in powers, but these seem more resolving and a wider more comprehensive sound stage than the other el38's I have.  And these may not be burned in all the way yet.  They were NOS when H got them, don't know how many hours he has in them, but he mentioned that as well, so am comparing this to the El38's that I have with over a hundred hours on them. If you get a chance, try them as drivers and see what you think, and let us know. Everyone's equipment is different not to mention ears! So it would be nice to see what you think on these in comparison.


Thanks for your comprehensive reply. My balloon tubes are also nos with the  power tubes being well used. Like you I will try them as both driver and power. At the moment I believe I'm hearing a slight improvement in th mid-tone and as you say the soundstage. One of the balloon tubes is noisy so I need to work on that.


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## hypnos1

Hi @connieflyer ...glad to hear the tubes arrived safe and sound, and that you're liking them already. And as usual, they can only get better with more hours on them yet, so get ready for an interesting ride methinks lol . Your - and @barontan2418 's findings match my own, and I'm sure other differences will show themselves soon (bit it's not obligatory lol!! ).

But I can say that 4 of these earlier EL38 versions bring even more obvious 'extras'...so keep looking!! And while on the subject, with more hours on my Darios I have to say that these might not be the best of the bunch for overly bright systems - they have quite a bit more treble 'energy' than the others, and don't take kindly to recordings that are less than sympathetic in the treble department!! Mind you, this could change a bit more yet, given these 38s can be awful teasers sometimes before maturing properly lol. So stay tuned!...But having said that, the added 'sparkle' does bring another dimension to _well_ engineered material - particularly large classical pieces, and especially in combination with other aspects of these particular tubes.... So on balance, I still place them at #1 on the list!...

Time for zzzzzzzzzz, so g'night all....ENJOY!...CJ


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## mordy (Jan 19, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hypnos 1.
> Sorry to be a pain but could you direct me to where you purchased silicon rings from in the UK, how many used per tube and what size. If you ever get to Leeds there's a beer waiting for you. Thanks.


Hi b2418,
I have found a convenient and very low cost alternative ($2 or less shipped) to silicone rings that might work better than silicone rings - self fusing high temperature silicone tape:





https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-150cm-...h=item361f2fdd78:g:1VMAAOSwAqVZlSK4:rk:1:pf:0
You can also find this in auto parts stores etc. A roll should last you many tubes.
To use it you measure 2 cm less than the circumference; cut the tape, peel off the backing, and stretch the tape tight around the tube. Where the two ends overlap, the tape will fuse and melt together.

I have found that this many times helps for microphonics and hum.
If you have a tube that makes scary loud popping and explosive noises, many times it helps to take a soldering iron and heat up each individual pin for 30 seconds to re-solder the wire inside the pin.
Re the EL38 that hums, have you tried to change it's position in the amp? Sometimes it helps to put the tube into another socket.


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## barontan2418 (Jan 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi b2418,
> I have found a convenient and very low cost alternative ($2 or less shipped) to silicone rings that might work better than silicone rings - self fusing high temperature silicone tape:
> 
> 
> ...


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## connieflyer

Morning Mordy, I was wondering if that heat shrink tape could cause over time, for the glass to have a problem with stress? And if the microphonics is not helped, how easy is it to remove the tape? Obviosly with the silicone rings, it is a simple matter of just rolling it done the tube. Does the tape leave a lot of adhesive residue on the tube if you remove it?  Just wondering if you would be putting your tubes at risk using the tape instead of the silicon rings.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Morning Mordy, I was wondering if that heat shrink tape could cause over time, for the glass to have a problem with stress? And if the microphonics is not helped, how easy is it to remove the tape? Obviosly with the silicone rings, it is a simple matter of just rolling it done the tube. Does the tape leave a lot of adhesive residue on the tube if you remove it?  Just wondering if you would be putting your tubes at risk using the tape instead of the silicon rings.



Hi cf....my money would be on cheap rubber 'O' rings, to be sure...neater; will expand with the tube and, as you say, MUCH easier to put on/take off (if necessary!). And certainly worked perfectly on both the old EL38s I sent you lol!  But as always, "you pays your money and takes your choice" 

And mordy's mention of resoldering pins on troublesome tubes is a subject that I'm sure has far greater relevance than most folks realise. There must be a good many otherwise good (often expensive!) tubes that have ended up in the trash can alas .

This can affect very old tubes especially, of course...but even younger ones can fall foul of poor solder connection/detachment. All it needs is the tiniest bit of grease (from fingers, for example), or other contaminant/corrosion on either surface to create a disaster in the making! Not to mention insufficient heat to make a proper bond. And this can happen even when great care is taken alas!

I suspect that this could well be the main cause of problems with new 3rd party adapters, for example, and not just very old tube wire/pin connections. And so mordy's mention of applying a soldering iron to such pins might well possibly repair a said failing/failed connection...*but*...one must be aware that there's also a slight chance it can have the _*opposite*_ effect!

Even after many dozens of tubes I myself have rewired new bases to, I have encountered - rarely, thank goodness! - an extremely frustrating/annoying phenomenon that still has me scratching my head in disbelief...ie. I have secured the new wires inside the new pins by wedging with more wire, and the tube has worked perfectly. I take it out, solder to make things more 'secure and permanent' and..._no longer works in the amp!!!_ Only after removing part of the pins to regain access to the wires and resoldering did I manage to resolve the issue!
So now - with my own tubes - I no longer even bother to solder the pins...I put bends in the wires so as to ensure multiple contact inside the pins; extend the wires so as to also make direct contact with the bottom of the socket, and finally wedge them _very_ tightly with more wire. And this has never let me down yet lol!! Plus, the direct metal to metal contact is going to be far better soundwise than a blob of solder...even when it has higher silver content!!

And so, folks, just a reminder that molten solder - not just the old, set kind - can sometimes behave in ways that may not be _exactly_ as one would expect/wish for lol! ...HAPPY SOLDERING!...CJ


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Morning Mordy, I was wondering if that heat shrink tape could cause over time, for the glass to have a problem with stress? And if the microphonics is not helped, how easy is it to remove the tape? Obviosly with the silicone rings, it is a simple matter of just rolling it done the tube. Does the tape leave a lot of adhesive residue on the tube if you remove it?  Just wondering if you would be putting your tubes at risk using the tape instead of the silicon rings.


Hi CF,
Good questions, and in order to find the answer I took off the silicone tape I had applied to a Sylvania 6SN7W. This tube had exhibited terrible pops and loud explosive sounds. Applying the silicone tape did not help at all for this tube and I only applied it because at that stage I did not know what would work saving this tube. Subsequently I applied 30-60 sec of heat to each pin with a 30W soldering iron and that helped to restore the tube.
For some reason i just left the tape on it, but now you gave me the motivation to remove it - not that I minded the tape so much, because it made the tube look like a Black Glass Round Plate Tung Sol LOL.
It seems that there is a chemical reaction that fuses together only the pieces of tape that are touching. The adhesive is very mild and I am happy to report that the whole thing came off like you are taking off a sock and left the tube whistling clean without any residue at all.
Personally I don't think that the little pressure on the glass is any cause for concern - could not be any worse than a tight silicone ring. This tape also can be used on tubes with a metal enclosure. My guess is that it works by stabilizing the glass or metal from vibrations that may cause hum or microphonics, but this is just a guess.


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## connieflyer

Good to know.  Thought it might have had adhesive on it, nice find


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## mordy

Hi h1,
I don't have the soldering knowledge (and ambition) that you have so I would not tackle removing a base and re-soldering it. But to heat up the pins is not a difficult operation, and, as you say, it does not always help, but many times it does.
Re the use of silicone tape vs silicone rings I do not find it difficult at all to use it. Also, there is no need to find the right size silicone ring.
According to one source, it works better than the rings. Only one way to find out - try it!


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## barontan2418 (Jan 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> I don't have the soldering knowledge (and ambition) that you have so I would not tackle removing a base and re-soldering it. But to heat up the pins is not a difficult operation, and, as you say, it does not always help, but many times it does.
> Re the use of silicone tape vs silicone rings I do not find it difficult at all to use it. Also, there is no need to find the right size silicone ring.
> According to one source, it works better than the rings. Only one way to find out - try it!


Mordy when you apply heat to tube pins is the tube held horizontally? It's something I've never tried but might be worth a try with a couple of noisy tubes I have.


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## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Mordy when you apply heat to tube pins is the tube held horizontally? It's something I've never tried but might be worth a try with a couple of noisy tubes I have.


Don't know which position is optimal, but I held the tube in the horizontal position slightly tipped down and applied heat with a broad tip to the side of the pins and timed it with a watch. 
30-60 seconds should be good - didn't want the solder to flow out of the pin.
If you have a tube that's makes terrible loud noises it's worth trying. A friend sent me a Sylvania 6SN7W tube that he had written off as unusable and I was able to revive it - as a matter of fact I am using it now and no noise at all.
Had a couple of tubes that were very microphonic or humming badly. Applied the silicone tape. In some cases the noise went completely away and in other cases it decreased enough to make the tube usable.
One tube (TS 6F8G) was terribly microphonic but after letting it burn in it suddenly became quiet - go figure.
I have a 12SN7GT TS BGRP that one of the little spring clamps on top of the mica holding together two support rods came loose and was rattling around the tube. Not wanting to cause a short somewhere I found a solution:



If you look at the top part of the tube you can see the spring clip hanging close to the top part of the glass envelope - I taped on a little magnet outside on top of the glass. Underneath the hanging clamp you can see the other spring clamp properly positioned.
And the tube works.....


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## JazzVinyl

SWBM:


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## barontan2418

mordy said:


> Don't know which position is optimal, but I held the tube in the horizontal position slightly tipped down and applied heat with a broad tip to the side of the pins and timed it with a watch.
> 30-60 seconds should be good - didn't want the solder to flow out of the pin.
> If you have a tube that's makes terrible loud noises it's worth trying. A friend sent me a Sylvania 6SN7W tube that he had written off as unusable and I was able to revive it - as a matter of fact I am using it now and no noise at all.
> Had a couple of tubes that were very microphonic or humming badly. Applied the silicone tape. In some cases the noise went completely away and in other cases it decreased enough to make the tube usable.
> ...



Many thanks Mordy. Think I will give the tubes a little more time as they were nos and maybe have about 50 hrs at present. Heating the pins will be my next step and will follow your procedure. Nice fix with the magnet, a man after my own heart. Most things can be fixed if enough thought is given to the problem. Thanks again.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 21, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Many thanks Mordy. Think I will give the tubes a little more time as they were nos and maybe have about 50 hrs at present. Heating the pins will be my next step and will follow your procedure. Nice fix with the magnet, a man after my own heart. Most things can be fixed if enough thought is given to the problem. Thanks again.



Hi bt. What kind of noise are these tubes making, and which ones are they? One would have expected it to settle down after 50 hrs or so. My old Mullard EL38s made a worrying 'hiss/rustling' and slight squeaking noise at startup...one lasting quite a long time, even after re-soldering the pins. Was going to (sadly) write it off, but I kept it running - complete with scary noise(!), hand on the power switch and eyes glued to the tube for any signs of arcing - and after about 30 secs (seemed a lifetime lol!!) it disappeared, with then just a tiny bit occasionally at startup, and gone in a flash...(of _time_, not _light!!_)...phew!! 

If the noise is more like a bad crackling, it's probably a more serious bad connection somewhere or, worse still, some wires shorting.  @mordy's mention of using heat to re-flow the pin solder is certainly then worth a try...but *not *if it's more like a ringing, microphonic sound - not worth the risk IMHO, and wouldn't remedy it anyway lol!. And if you do need to try resoldering, whatever you do *don't* angle the tube such that the solder could run far back down towards the base...a pretty good chance of creating a short!! 

So GOOD LUCK!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt. What kind of noise are these tubes making, and which ones are they? One would have expected it to settle down after 50 hrs or so. My old Mullard EL38s made a worrying 'hiss/rustling' and slight squeaking noise at startup...one lasting quite a long time, even after re-soldering the pins. Was going to (sadly) write it off, but I kept it running - complete with scary noise(!), hand on the power switch and eyes glued to the tube for any signs of arcing - and after about 30 secs (seemed a lifetime lol!!) it disappeared, with then just a tiny bit occasionally at startup, and gone in a flash...(of _time_, not _light!!_)...phew!!
> 
> If the noise is more like a bad crackling, it's probably a more serious bad connection somewhere or, worse still, some wires shorting.  @mordy's mention of using heat to re-flow the pin solder is certainly then worth a try...but *not *if it's more like a ringing, microphonic sound - not worth the risk IMHO, and wouldn't remedy it anyway lol!. And if you do need to try resoldering, whatever you do *don't* angle the tube such that the solder could run far back down towards the base...a pretty good chance of creating a short!!
> 
> So GOOD LUCK!...CHEERS!...CJ


Hi CJ. You example of slight ringing/ microphonic sound which varies in intensity but never  scary. I think both tubes have a touch of this noise but one is worse than the other. I guess I might be being a little fussy as these are the old balloon type tubes and could well stem from 1948 area. I don't know about you but I find any slight background noise too much to accept. Might have to revert to using my nos Mullards of which I have accrued two quads.


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## connieflyer

Hi bt, sorry you are still having problems with those tubes. I am using the ones that H sold me, since they were a little microphonic he put the rubber rings on them and I have not had any noise from them at all. If you should decide you are not going to use them, please keep us in  mind here.  Wish you luck with them, a very worthwhile tube to have.  Did you have a chance to try them as drivers as well as powers?  I still have not gotten around to doing that, they sound so good as drivers have not got around to it yet.  I also made a nice addition to my system,  I bought a Furman Linear Power Conditioner, and that made a very nice change, lowered the noise floor to zero, on all inputs. Well worth the price.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi CJ. You example of slight ringing/ microphonic sound which varies in intensity but never  scary. I think both tubes have a touch of this noise but one is worse than the other. I guess I might be being a little fussy as these are the old balloon type tubes and could well stem from 1948 area. I don't know about you but I find any slight background noise too much to accept. Might have to revert to using my nos Mullards of which I have accrued two quads.



Hi again bt. 

Well, first off, it sounds like your tubes aren't beyond saving...especially if not 'scary' sounding lol!  And yes, such background noise is still far too distracting to put up with. But I'm quite hopeful for you...my own old Mullards were unlistenable to until I used the rubber rings (still my own preferred option!! )...whereupon immediate, total _silence_...(background, of course! ). So please persevere with those tubes...it'll probably be well worth it.

I must say one thing however...although the old 'balloon' Mullard/Philips is not as well constructed as the later version, I wasn't too impressed by the looks of your 2x 'United' tubes. Whatever, they're still worth giving a further try lol  And depending how long ago you bought them, if you can't cure them, I would definitely send them back for refund. Too many sub-standard, not fit-for-purpose tubes are put on the market...and any respectable seller should refund. If they don't at first, one should challenge it - ebay (usually) gives the buyer very good cover, and businesses (here in the UK especially) soon fall foul of regulations/laws if said product is not f-f-p (regardless if a tube _'tests_' OK). Plus, they have to cover all shipping costs if product is faulty...so GOOD LUCK, whichever course you take...


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi bt, sorry you are still having problems with those tubes. I am using the ones that H sold me, since they were a little microphonic he put the rubber rings on them and I have not had any noise from them at all. If you should decide you are not going to use them, please keep us in  mind here.  Wish you luck with them, a very worthwhile tube to have.  Did you have a chance to try them as drivers as well as powers?  I still have not gotten around to doing that, they sound so good as drivers have not got around to it yet.  I also made a nice addition to my system,  I bought a Furman Linear Power Conditioner, and that made a very nice change, lowered the noise floor to zero, on all inputs. Well worth the price.



Hi cf.

Glad to hear those tubes are still doing fine with those rubber rings. Not _all _microphonic tubes can be remedied of course, regardless of method used, but it's certainly always worth a try...nothing to lose, all to possibly gain lol! 

So you too have discovered the benefits of mains electricity filtering/conditioning? WELL DONE! The improvements in overall sound reproduction are very clear (to most!!)...despite no _obvious_ 'nasties' in the mains supply. Now your EL38s will perform even _better_, of that I'm quite sure . And your Furman does look very good value-for-money....ENJOY!...


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## barontan2418

They do look pretty ropey don't they, maybe the prototype? Anyway not too expensive and I believe I've kept them too long for a refund. Just put it down to experience and soldier on. By the way as many have said before me you've done a great job with this thread and inspired me to re- examine  my bounderies which in turn has increased my musical enjoyment. So thanks for your advice and enthusiasm.


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## connieflyer

Hi H, the Furman has made a believer out of me, running the media off the PC, even with a great power supply and JRiver, and Gumby the power supplies on the pc and the NAS are switching and even though I thought my system was quiet, when connecting everything back to the Furman made such a difference. Funny, I had listened to the phones with nothing playing before and heard no sound at all, so assumed it was quiet. But once the Furman was in the circuit, could tell, it was a total almost inky blackness.  Now all the sound comes  up from the darkness.  Well worth the price. Amazon had it at a reduced price , and with their guarranty was not concerned.  If anyone is on the fence, I would recommend the unit or one with similar specs.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 21, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> They do look pretty ropey don't they, maybe the prototype? Anyway not too expensive and I believe I've kept them too long for a refund. Just put it down to experience and soldier on. By the way as many have said before me you've done a great job with this thread and inspired me to re- examine  my bounderies which in turn has increased my musical enjoyment. So thanks for your advice and enthusiasm.



And thanks for your kind words, bt.

Glad _you_ used the word 'ropey' lol! ...can't believe they would have been from the Mullard/Philips (Europe) stable...(any ideas @Oskari ?).

And by the way, when I suspected microphonics in those tubes, and before using the rings, I pinched (hard) around the tubes' bottoms with thumb and finger, which reduced the noise enough to indicate the problem...(mind you, they were in the driver slot and hadn't been on long, so not too hot lol! Otherwise, gloves would be safer!! ). Still hoping they're retrievable......CJ


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> And thanks for your kind words, bt.
> 
> Glad _you_ used the word 'ropey' lol! ...can't believe they would have been from the Mullard/Philips (Europe) stable...(any ideas @Oskari ?).
> 
> And by the way, when I suspected microphonics in those tubes, and before using the rings, I pinched (hard) around the tubes' bottoms with thumb and finger, which reduced the noise enough to indicate the problem...(mind you, they were in the driver slot and hadn't been on long, so not too hot lol! Otherwise, gloves would be safer!! ). Still hoping they're retrievable......CJ



From what I could find on-line United made their own tubes until around 1948 and then farmed out to far east and Europe. An American company still to be found in name only but brought out some time ago. I thought that as these tubes have no other numerical /manufactures  codes that they might be the originals from 1948 era but I could well be wrong. I'm listening to Sarah McKenzie at the moment with a quad of well used Mullards and she is sounding superb and with totally black background. Good enough for me.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 21, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> From what I could find on-line United made their own tubes until around 1948 and then farmed out to far east and Europe. An American company still to be found in name only but brought out some time ago. I thought that as these tubes have no other numerical /manufactures  codes that they might be the originals from 1948 era but I could well be wrong. I'm listening to Sarah McKenzie at the moment with a quad of well used Mullards and she is sounding superb and with totally black background. Good enough for me.



Sure enough, bt...returning to all-Mullard (later) tubes is certainly no climb down lol! ...and they'll definitely have a much longer life, to be sure . And that there's still some around at silly (cheap!) prices for such a wonderful tube is very encouraging indeed....

If you should want to give those Uniteds another try any time, I first used a stout elastic band around the tubes before the permanent 'O' rings...a good test to see if it's worth going any further...(but only a _temporary_ remedy of course lol!).

Now then guys, further to my recent assessment of the Dario versions of the EL38, I can pretty well confirm that they do indeed have a bit more 'edginess' over the other versions, and so might not be the best for bright systems/ears...*unless* you have a Chord Hugo2 DAC! I don't normally like any 'filtering' of sound output (unless by tubes lol!), preferring it 'straight', like my brandy - Hennessy XO, if someone else is buying (so be warned bt if ever I'm up Leeds way! ). However, I thought I'd give Rob Watts's filters a try out of curiosity, and his setting that retains full detail handling but with slight treble roll-off hit the mark perfectly. No more hint of harshness, and no appreciable loss of sparkle, detail or soundstage...wonderful! And as an added bonus, I was able to turn up the volume a tad, with the benefits this can bring...and without a return of said 'edge'. Then, at the press of a button, I can reset to 'Dave' setting for tracks that actually _need_ that bit of extra energy...so the best of both worlds lol...and without having to keep swapping tubes to suit - something I avoid at all costs, for various reasons. In other words, the Darios can stay put...and no-one else is going to get their hands on 'em...sorry!! ...CJ


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## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Glad _you_ used the word 'ropey' lol! ...can't believe they would have been from the Mullard/Philips (Europe) stable...(any ideas @Oskari ?).


I've been wondering myself but have no theory yet. I'll let you know if that changes.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 23, 2019)

Oskari said:


> I've been wondering myself but have no theory yet. I'll let you know if that changes.



Thanks O...and if you don't have the final answer yet, _no-one_ has lol! ...(perhaps @barontan2418 's suspicion is a good possibility - that they were indeed a doomed American trial at producing the EL38?). So any new light on the subject would be interesting indeed, mon ami...

Whatever, I'm becoming more and more convinced that Philips/Mullard realised fairly quickly that this tube needed quite an overhaul to make it more reliable...hence the scarcity of these earlier versions and the more rugged-looking later ones, complete with ceramic post insulators in a smaller bottle, a la EL37, and upgraded (gold) signal grid wires...(btw, concerning said wires, I was surprised to find that the earlier tubes - not the later clear glass ones - have *two* going to the signal pin...something I've never before noticed in a pentode...interesting! ).

Now then folks...as an adjunct to my recent comments on 'taming' the slight edgy nature of the Dario EL38 with certain recordings, by using Hugo2's least intrusive filter, I have found that it does in fact also take away a _slight _amount of information related to spatial 'airiness' and sharpness of attack...both to treble and bass/mid frequencies. This is pretty well inevitable when playing around with treble especially, and in a highly resolving setup, so...*no filter for me*, unless absolutely necessary lol!

I suppose this comes down to the sort of choice we all have to make when choosing not only the tubes we prefer, but also every other part of the system....no wonder most of us just can't avoid falling down that bottomless rabbit hole! Finding the right combination that satisfies _nearly_ all our heart's desires is a mammoth task indeed...especially as our tastes can change over time, not to mention the effects of ageing on our poor ears!! . And so I wish you all the very best of luck in this endeavour! 

As for myself, the Dario EL38s - as partners to Euforia and the rest of my gear - have come closest so far to satisfying my own desires..._perhaps!_...(I wonder if 2x Darios driving 2x 'all black' balloon powers might actually remove the need for _any_ occasional filtering?!!...hmmmm...must get working on my last two lol! )...CHEERS!...CJ.


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## connieflyer

WAIT! You say you have old ears? Blasphemy!  I know how that goes. Sorry you can not use the filter that at first sounded better, but I have found that to be true as well. Interesting idea about using 2 Darios and 2 balloon tubes, that might just change the sound enough to lesson the slight brightness of the Darios.  Did you try the old remedy that used to work well for me,when I was younger?   When things did not seem to sound right, I would have a double scotch, and keep adjusting that until everything sounded just right again.  And it is not permanent! So you might have to try it the next night as well.  Henesey would make it just smooth enough, me thinks.


----------



## connieflyer

Hi BT, I tried swapping out the balloon tubes from the driver position to the power slot last night.  Listened for a few hours that way, and came to the conclusion, that, for my system at least, it sounded a little different . Went back to the balloon tubes in the driver position, and like that much better. In the power slot, the balloon tubes sounded a little more bassy, and a little less clear. That was my impression last night and after swapping them back this morning, confirmed, at least in my system, it was better as drivers. The balloon tubes seem to have a little more bass and that is emphasized in the power slot. If you have not tried to swap the tubes, you should give it a try and see what it sounds like.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 24, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> WAIT! You say you have old ears? Blasphemy!  I know how that goes. Sorry you can not use the filter that at first sounded better, but I have found that to be true as well. Interesting idea about using 2 Darios and 2 balloon tubes, that might just change the sound enough to lesson the slight brightness of the Darios.  Did you try the old remedy that used to work well for me,when I was younger?   When things did not seem to sound right, I would have a double scotch, and keep adjusting that until everything sounded just right again.  And it is not permanent! So you might have to try it the next night as well.  Henesey would make it just smooth enough, me thinks.



Hi cf.
Yo...ears might be getting a bit old, but _hopefully_ years of analytical scrutiny (and education!) of subtle - and not-so-subtle - sounds help to make up for it lol?!! ...(But your remedy of using Hennessy (XO!) sounds a darned good assistant, even if not permanent...but certainly a darn sight more expensive, alas!  However, _smooth_ is the operative word...).

And speaking of smooth, that ploy I mentioned of replacing 2 of the Darios (as powers) with Philips 'balloons' just might do the trick. While checking my last NOS and near-NOS ones from Holland before surgery, the sound is already looking promising. But it's a way off being sure as yet, of course...However, logic would point to a positive result - especially as they would probably be a tad lighter in the 'energy' stakes as powers, but without the downside of filtering. So stay tuned......

ps. Both these Philips EL38s were silent as the grave (background!) right from the off...no hiss/rustle/crackle/squeak/ping/plop from either of them..._phew!!_ ...(obviously treated with care in the past! )...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Hi BT, I tried swapping out the balloon tubes from the driver position to the power slot last night.  Listened for a few hours that way, and came to the conclusion, that, for my system at least, it sounded a little different . Went back to the balloon tubes in the driver position, and like that much better. In the power slot, the balloon tubes sounded a little more bassy, and a little less clear. That was my impression last night and after swapping them back this morning, confirmed, at least in my system, it was better as drivers. The balloon tubes seem to have a little more bass and that is emphasized in the power slot. If you have not tried to swap the tubes, you should give it a try and see what it sounds like.



Hi connieflyer
With the balloon tubes as drivers I get noise ( these are two new balloon tubes) whilst using them as power tubes all is back in order and quiet. I've not noticed any adverse effects on the bass as yet. I'm nowhere near as experienced as you at picking up on subtle differences in the presentation of music and have found it even more difficult  as all the combinations since the EL32 have been so good. However the main thing is I'm completely happy with this present set-up as proved during my 2 hour session with Fleetwood Mac last night, they have never sounded so good.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 24, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hi BT, I tried swapping out the balloon tubes from the driver position to the power slot last night.  Listened for a few hours that way, and came to the conclusion, that, for my system at least, it sounded a little different . Went back to the balloon tubes in the driver position, and like that much better. In the power slot, the balloon tubes sounded a little more bassy, and a little less clear. That was my impression last night and after swapping them back this morning, confirmed, at least in my system, it was better as drivers. The balloon tubes seem to have a little more bass and that is emphasized in the power slot. If you have not tried to swap the tubes, you should give it a try and see what it sounds like.



Hey cf...this idea of swapping tubes around to 'fine tune' the sound from our tube amps is one I'm sure more folks could benefit from...and not just 'front to back' lol! 

I first discovered that it was in fact possible - against all accepted wisdom - to 'mix and match' tubes even strictly from different families so that the 'whole is better than the sum of the parts', way back in Elise days...ie. the FDD20 with the ECC31, and which worked for most folks (the ECC31 being rather heavy in the bass department!!).

Anyway, fast forward to today, and although within the same family - which is much more likely to succeed, of course - my hunch that altering the mix by substituting one or more Dario EL38s for the Philips 'balloon' version might achieve what I was looking for is turning out more successful than anticipated. And this is with just _one_ Philips as substitute in the power role! Even after just several hours in my testing adapter, that 'edginess' I mentioned previously has gone...and without any sacrifice elsewhere _whatsoever_...unlike trying to achieve the same thing via non-tube electronic filtering (via the Hugo2). And which has confirmed once and for all (for me anyway!) the superiority of such fine tuning via _tubes_ lol! ...and hence my wish that more folks would experiment with altering their final sound output to suit using this method...especially with intimate knowledge of a particular tube's characteristics, and its shortcomings (no single tube on this planet can really tick _all_ the boxes 100%!!).

And, of course, trial and error will also be needed...results may not always be as expected/hoped for! Witness your own findings re. the 'balloon' tubes as powers, compared to drivers. In your case, results follow what one would expect, ie. their extra bass being _over_-delivered as powers. And yet in my own, with the brighter Darios as drivers, the single balloon in power duties shows no sign whatsoever of being OTT in the bass...just proving that driver/power interaction will differ according to mix of particular tubes. But experimentation is well worth the effort, even if only for interest's sake!! ...so don't be afraid of giving it a try folks...CHEERS!

ps. Swapping front to back in our amps is only really successful with the EL family of pentodes (triode-strapped)...and their abilities in this area - as well as their other attributes - are quite remarkable, in fact!


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi connieflyer
> With the balloon tubes as drivers I get noise ( these are two new balloon tubes) whilst using them as power tubes all is back in order and quiet. I've not noticed any adverse effects on the bass as yet. I'm nowhere near as experienced as you at picking up on subtle differences in the presentation of music and have found it even more difficult  as all the combinations since the EL32 have been so good. However the main thing is I'm completely happy with this present set-up as proved during my 2 hour session with Fleetwood Mac last night, they have never sounded so good.



Hi bt.

Really glad your 'balloons' are fine as powers...thank goodness lol! ...(still the Uniteds, I presume?). And it's really strange they aren't any good as drivers...I and @connieflyer have no problem at all in that respect, with Mullard/Philips tubes...weird!! . Ah well, such is life in tubeland sometimes...

ps. I just _love_ 'Never Going Back Again'; 'Oh Daddy' and 'Gold Dust Woman' especially...these tracks sound awesome in my current setup - a _million_ dollars, even! ...


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## connieflyer

Hi BTW, glad to see that you tried the balloon tubes in both positions. The fact that they were a little noisy in the driver's spot could possibly be because they are so new. After you get 60 or 80 hours on them you might want to try rolling them back there again just to see if it's any different. But the main most important thing is that you are enjoying them so much. That is the true test not how experienced you are or how much you paid for any one particular or all the items that you have. It's your enjoyment. That is the most important part. We are all different we all hear things just a little bit different from one another so what works for you may not work for me, but I find it very interesting for people to share their thoughts I'm what it is they like about an item or what they don't like for that matter. I am happy that you found some balloons tubes, these are so hard to find you scored big there my friend. Enjoy the music!


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## connieflyer

Hello h, glad to see that things are working out so well with the Dario tubes. And very excited for you to find that just one work so well oh, and since that's the truth, just send the extras my way! These tubes are some of the most interesting ones that I've ever had. They just seem to keep getting better over time and I could not be happier with a set of tubes. Hope you are feeling well, and continue to have good fortune with those tubes. I am sure that you will and I'm so glad that you are listening to me about the advisability of one tube or another! For those of you that don't know, I'm just joking on that last part! h is the king, I am but a lowly vassal doing my part to keep the kingdom up and running!


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## JazzVinyl

hypnos1 said:


> I first discovered that it was in fact possible - against all accepted wisdom - to 'mix and match' tubes even strictly from different families so that the 'whole is better than the sum of the parts', way back in Elise days...ie. the FDD20 with the ECC31, and which worked for most folks (the ECC31 being rather heavy in the bass department!!).



Hello H1...

I loved the “weird but wonderful” FDD20/ECC31 combo. I never heard better.  Liked it with 6H13C as powers and then, the world caught fire, with the use of extrrnally heated 6x 6BL7’s.

Today, I am personally, not very hot on EL38 as drivers, but do love them as power tubes.  The EL8 as drivers and EL38 as powers is an extremely impressive combination.  

I highly recommend this set of tubes to all, in here, who employ high impedance headphons in thier sonic adventures.  

Cheers....


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @JazzVinyl .

Yep, the '20/31' driver combo certainly had a certain 'something' that one either loved or hated lol!! And, of course, the need for an external 12V heater supply didn't help matters alas. But which did show IMHO that unconventional ideas can sometimes work extremely well, even if not for everyone!

The moral of the tale - as with the latest EL38 tubes - is that each individual can only really know what suits him/her best by personal trial and error...perhaps guided by majority findings - the latter especially useful for those who don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole lol! 

I would, however, stress at this juncture that Euforia is quite a different animal to Elise, which will therefore definitely affect final outcome depending on the rest of one's system, not only different tubes used....

But at the end of the day, whatever brings a music lover his/her best enjoyment - regardless of equipment used and cost, is all that really matters... so folks...ENJOY!!...CJ


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## connieflyer

I found this to be true as well. The E euphoria is a much more resolving amplifier. And being that it is such, the results are different as well with the use of the different tube combinations. I'm trying one balloon tube as power and the other three the clear e l 38 this morning. Don't have a lot of time have a doctor's appointment but wanted to try it. I made sure to glue down all the caps and the tube to the base so that should be good. So far it sounds good but have to do a lot more listening before making my final decision on what I like


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## connieflyer

Have been looking to replace a couple of power cords and thought I would check out some boutique cables.  At this price it must be good, I needed 3 of them, so at least they offer free shipping.  

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-D...203KN80SAT6&psc=1&refRID=XCY3X42XX203KN80SAT6


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Have been looking to replace a couple of power cords and thought I would check out some boutique cables.  At this price it must be good, I needed 3 of them, so at least they offer free shipping.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-D...203KN80SAT6&psc=1&refRID=XCY3X42XX203KN80SAT6


Hi CF,
Sounds like a good idea, but since the 20A version costs the same I can't decide which ones to get. Another point that makes me hesitate is the absence of customer reviews.
Maybe just splurge on a pair of Swedish 6SN7 variants made for artillery equipment:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...h=item4b5b34e735:g:jHgAAOSwLeFcP7s-:rk:8:pf:0





Hmmmm-you would think that they would clean the pins for that price....


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## connieflyer

I suppose they would clean the pins for another $1,000 or so! It's amazing what they asked for some of these things, it would be even more amazing if anybody actually pays those prices and if they do I have some swamp land to sell them


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## Madhyamika

I wonder if they actually meant to type $40.00


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> I suppose they would clean the pins for another $1,000 or so! It's amazing what they asked for some of these things, it would be even more amazing if anybody actually pays those prices and if they do I have some swamp land to sell them


Hi CF,
People actually pay these kind of prices. Here is a similar Swedish pair that went for $3000.00 (+shipping!).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/33S30-TUBE...104399?hash=item3b0ee7370f:g:PcIAAOSwvYZZmEyj
Should have snapped up some when I grew up in Sweden, but then I did not know anything about tubes except that we had an old Blaupunkt tube table radio that did not work - went into the garbage.....


----------



## connieflyer

Well, just switched the position of the tubes again. I had been trying one balloon tube in the Power slot and the other three El 38 clear.  It did give it a little more bass, but the overall sound was not as satisfying as running the balloon tubes in the Driver slots and El38 clear in the Power slots. It was worth the experiment, but H's equipment and mine are a little different, and of course individual preferences come in to play. His tube compliment was also different so the fact the my results and H's differing, just goes to show, you have to try different things to find what you prefer.  I am very happy with the balloon tubes and El 38 clear together. Just the right amount of everything. Although, I still have not found the setting where it will take a frozen dinner out, and microwave it for my dinner yet.  I don't think that is to much to ask!


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## Johnnysound (Jan 26, 2019)

...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Some 40-50 hours of “hard” burn in for the quartet of EL38s (as power pentodes) and I can say that these are big, bold, powerful tubes capable of “rock concert” levels  and explosive dynamics without a hint of strain...impressive.  I don’t care about their power ratings:  they sound every bit as powerful (with better definition) as the KT150s,  the most powerful pentodes available.  But, frankly, we can’t compare current production tubes with early fifties power Mullards:  the EL38s belong to another universe in terms of transparency and musical expression, with a “classic”, warm,  big tube sound that feels unlimited in its extension.  So extended that they will show what your power amp is capable of.  Bass is ultra deep and full of impact, room filling and even startling at times, strong yet always musical, mids are sweet and natural,  and highs just soar, sounding  airy, and detached like a separate entity.   There is no blur or confusion here,
> 
> I feel that my new, DIY pure silver ICs (“Johnny’s Lightning”, LOL) used for this test may have” drier” bass and sparkling highs compared to copper cables, but these are only my first impressions.  Anyway, the EL38s are not “easy” power tubes to drive (as any thoroughbred) since they deliver a torrent of sound (specially in the bass) that must be controlled by the right drivers.  In my power amp, I settled for the Brimars CV4004 box plates as pre tubes (some of the best you can find) because of their neutrality and control, and still rolling some 12AT7 drivers (phase inverters) to see if they are able to properly control the quartet of wild horses.  If the drivers are warm, you will get a LOT of warmth, and if they are bass heavy, forget about it.  Best results so far in terms of accuracy was with Siemens tubes, with that very neutral, precise , “German” sound (that the EL38s reproduced faithfully) but in musical terms, the Brimars 13D9 (6060) or the E180CC Miniwatt Darios sounded so sweet, “classic”  and beautiful with the EL38s that you can simply enjoy the music...



Hi J...good to hear you're still impressed with the EL38s in your power amp. I can't begin to imagine just how powerful they sound as unbridled pentodes!! ...no wonder they then need more 'delicate' drivers lol.... 

Fortunately, triode-strapped (with half the power therefore) and not pushed so hard in our amps means most of us can enjoy their qualities as drivers also to their prowess as powers...depending on the rest of the system and ears, of course!! .

Having been so used to a 'lighter' sound for so long - especially via headphones - I must admit it has taken me a while to fall in love with the really 'big' sound these tubes deliver, but no way could I go back now. And it's not only the incredible bass that has converted me...those fluid mids are _so_ seductive - especially for voice...male _and_ female. Plus, to achieve this without impinging on the treble is IMHO a rare feat indeed...and one that no other tube I've used in my own system(s) the past five years comes anywhere near.

So I really look forward to how you find them in your Euforia...is it likely to be fairly soon, J?...hope so lol! 

And as for your pure silver cables, I personally would be very surprised - nay _dismayed!_ - if you didn't notice such changes. I myself have always found the improvements you mentioned, along with others...especially once they too have 'burned in'. And they go up yet another notch when using mono-crystal solid OCC silver wire...especially IMO when combined with solid OCC copper lol  (but long runs do then start emptying the wallet _big_ time, alas!)....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, just switched the position of the tubes again. I had been trying one balloon tube in the Power slot and the other three El 38 clear.  It did give it a little more bass, but the overall sound was not as satisfying as running the balloon tubes in the Driver slots and El38 clear in the Power slots. It was worth the experiment, but H's equipment and mine are a little different, and of course individual preferences come in to play. His tube compliment was also different so the fact the my results and H's differing, just goes to show, you have to try different things to find what you prefer.  I am very happy with the balloon tubes and El 38 clear together. Just the right amount of everything. Although, I still have not found the setting where it will take a frozen dinner out, and microwave it for my dinner yet.  I don't think that is to much to ask!



Hi cf.

I did suspect that the balloon might just be a bit too powerful in the bass as a power tube with 38s as drivers. In my own case, the slightly brighter Darios do indeed make for a different outcome, and my one NOS Philips partnering 3 Darios does look like the answer to the latters' 'edginess' I mentioned previously. Its extra bass is in fact still more noticeable, but fortunately is not _too_ OTT now, with further burn-in of both tube and new wires. And their slightly greater mids even than the 'clears' not only soften the treble a tad, but bring an extra quality to voices especially...very enticing lol! . So now it should be very interesting indeed to see what _two_ balloons sound like as powers...just hope my T1's drivers can take it lol!!! ...(not to mention my eardrums!! ).

My only regret is that these earlier 'balloon' versions are certainly much more temperamental than the later 'pretty' ones, especially if used tubes. They obviously need very gentle treatment indeed, so I shall repeat that if one does manage to find some, be sure to check for background noise that doesn't go after several hours and 2 to 3 on/offs. If it persists, return them as faulty straight away! And once satisfied they're OK...*glue down the top caps and bases to tube glass!* Then, keep fingers crossed they stay trouble-free lol! . The gamble will most certainly be worthwhile......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

With the El38 clears as drivers,it was just a bit to much bass, going back to balloons as drivers and el38's as powers, sounds much better. And I did make sure to glue everything down, good advice, as I forgot to do that with mine, things sounded so good, you have a tendency to "overlook" things!


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## hypnos1

Hi @connieflyer , and anyone else who might be interested in scarce wonders lol .

With fully adapted Philips 'balloon' EL38 #2 now accompanying the 1st as powers, driven by 2x Dario 38s, once again I'm somewhat confounded by the behaviour of this family of tubes.

Given the extra bass that just one as power brought to the table, I was fully expecting that 2 would be far too heavy at the bottom end....wrong again! Even before proper burn-in, if anything, my love affair with bass has grown even further...I simply cannot believe what's now coming out of my T1s (with drivers still intact lol!! ). Its depth, detail, range, texture and solidity are just taking my breath away. And, as I mentioned last time, mids are even _more_ present...now enhancing instruments like piano, cello, alto flute as well as voice. And no hint of masking upper mids or treble detail. The opposite in fact...helping to soften any vocal sibilance, and as an antidote to harshness in some recordings.

However, cf, I can fully understand how they could be rather overwhelming (as powers) in different systems. I'm quite sure that my own results come courtesy not only of the brighter Darios as drivers, but probably more so my mono-crystal OCC silver and copper wires throughout the system... plus the removal of most poorer quality connectors. Whatever, this just proves how certain tubes will behave differently according to individual systems. Trial and error is _always_ the order of the day, no?! ....

So a quick (dark!) photo of my _latest_ 'end game' tube complement...


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys.

Just thought my latest end game setup deserved a bit better photo, so dug out the Nikon...(still not very good light for the perfect shot however......never mind lol! ).

And just a few(!!) words after further burn-in of everything....WOW, WOW, and WOW again!! 

Although possibly a bit too much lower end for some systems/ears, in mine last night I was once again blown away...by one of my stalwart test pieces - 'Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of War of the Worlds'. And I honestly never realised there were *so* many individual bass and mids lines in this work. 

For this alone, the tube combination of 2x Dario EL38s driving 2x Philips 'all black' large balloon 38s is worth its weight in gold...truly outstanding..._in my system_. The 'big' sound from these 38s just got a whole lot bigger lol...but still delivers delicate, detailed treble when called for. This sound - from headphones - is now the closest to a speaker experience I have ever heard, including from some seriously expensive/fancy gear at meets and hi-fi shows...(albeit not the best environment for stellar performance! ). *Plus*, the added benefit of the kind of soundstage, separation, intimate experience etc. that few speakers can actually match, against a good hp system.

OK, OK...more than a 'few' words folks, so I'll go get the kettle on...you are reprieved!! ...BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

That sounds really great h, I am so happy that you have landed on a set of tubes that does really well for all the upgrades that you made to your system. The picture came out much better thank you, it gives me an idea of what I should look for even though there's none available! But Hope Springs Eternal or so they tell me take care and have a good one


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> That sounds really great h, I am so happy that you have landed on a set of tubes that does really well for all the upgrades that you made to your system. The picture came out much better thank you, it gives me an idea of what I should look for even though there's none available! But Hope Springs Eternal or so they tell me take care and have a good one



Thanks cf...I must admit I have often wondered whether my spend on the rest of my gear has _truly_ been completely worth it...but now I'm sure it probably has been - helping in no small measure the kind of performance I'm now lucky to enjoy.

So yes, keep your eyes peeled for these beauties...(hope you have endless patience though! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I decided  since I could not find any balloon tubes and I had an itch to spend some money,  I settled on three of these power cables.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L2MBYWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1    .    I  wanted 3 foot max , two foot would have done for two cables, needed the three for the amp.  Nice quality and not what you would call flexable!


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## OctavianH

And do you observe any improvement in sound quality? Was it worth the price?


----------



## connieflyer

I don't think I hear a difference but it has only been a few hours, so don't know if burn in will change that.  It was more to shorten up the cables and get some order from all the mix and match power cables.  Now with the gauge and construction, that is one more thing that "may" bring improvement. If after awhile I think I hear a change I will post again.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, I decided  since I could not find any balloon tubes and I had an itch to spend some money,  I settled on three of these power cables.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L2MBYWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1    .    I  wanted 3 foot max , two foot would have done for two cables, needed the three for the amp.  Nice quality and not what you would call flexable!



Those look really well made cables cf, and at a very reasonable price indeed. They're obviously heavily shielded and with excellent-looking plugs, so well worth that kind of money IMHO...(even if not much difference is actually made to SQ ...but who knows lol?! ). Now _interconnects_ are another matter entirely...and yours look pretty good to me...... Ever thought of digging out the soldering iron and making up your own using mono-crystal OCC solid silver (and copper, perhaps!) wires, or just terminating Neotech's cable offerings?.... But would understand if not!! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Hope you haven't spent money reserved for the (gold) haystack needles lol!!  ...


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> I don't think I hear a difference but it has only been a few hours, so don't know if burn in will change that.  It was more to shorten up the cables and get some order from all the mix and match power cables.  Now with the gauge and construction, that is one more thing that "may" bring improvement. If after awhile I think I hear a change I will post again.


Hi CF,
In the past, on your recommendation,  I bought some hospital grade heavy gauge power cords for around $10-15 that actually made a difference with tighter bass. Curious if these are an improvement....


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## connieflyer

Have not had much time on them, but remember those hospital grade power cords, that was a great buy.  But the way I have everything, for the headphones together, the six foot cords were just to messy.  So these at half the length work better, although they do take up some room because of the gauge and construction.


----------



## mordy

Did you say messy?



I got too old to crawl around and sort up all the interconnects, cables and speaker wires - almost three decades of accumulations......
BTW, the thick whitish grey cable in the upper part of the picture is the 12 gauge hospital grade AC cord.


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## connieflyer

I recognize the hospital power cable, looks like a job you have there.  That might take a little while to sort out.


----------



## aqsw

connieflyer said:


> Well, I decided  since I could not find any balloon tubes and I had an itch to spend some money,  I settled on three of these power cables.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L2MBYWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1    .    I  wanted 3 foot max , two foot would have done for two cables, needed the three for the amp.  Nice quality and not what you would call flexable!



Ive had those exact same cords  for a couple years now.  I can't tell the difference, but they are well made and industrial feeling. I like them.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Did you say messy?
> 
> I got too old to crawl around and sort up all the interconnects, cables and speaker wires - almost three decades of accumulations......
> BTW, the thick whitish grey cable in the upper part of the picture is the 12 gauge hospital grade AC cord.



......


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
The thick blue wires are 14 gauge speaker wires - the salesman said that I need double lengths for each speaker, but the wires are too thick for my current LS50 killers (Elac Debut 6B and 6B v.2). He used the analogy of people running in a corridor - if there is more space you can run faster; hence the electrons can move faster using thicker and double cables.. That was in the 80's - don't know if I would buy that argument today.
The obvious inspiration for this picture comes from Canada - Narcisse Snake Pits:


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 30, 2019)

Hi guys...a quick update on my love affair with subterranean bass (not to mention mids!), courtesy of 2x large balloon EL38s as powers driven by 2x Dario 38s.

Much as I have never heard anything like it, methinks I do in fact have a new, seductive mistress...even if not quite as _big_ lol . After @connieflyer 's preference (cheers cf!) for his own balloons as _drivers_, I thought I'd take another dose of my own medicine and try a bit more mixing - ie. 1 of each front and back. And I have to admit to now preferring this combo, especially after further burn-in of tubes and wires, plus a wider selection of test tracks.

With one less balloon as power there is, inevitably, not quite the same thunderous bass, but the gain is a bit more detail coming through in upper mids and lower treble - for example, I've always liked to hear the scratch of bow on cello and violin (but not _too_ much lol!), which is now a bit clearer... plus the _right _amount of occasional sibilance, on female voice especially, indicating that bit of extra 'sparkle' that helps with 'air' and spatial effect. And so, as is to be expected, I have had to trade just some of those phenomenal bass frequencies for some more higher up the chain...which the Darios provide handsomely ...(but I do miss that stupendous bass and extra mids sometimes...this being the very first time I've actually regretted trading something in tube choice - which is something we all have to do, unfortunately lol!).

However, I gain comfort from the fact that bass and mids are _still_ the best I have ever heard... plus, the ability to now turn up the volume a tad without low frequency damage and destruction (to both ears and cans!) means I can in fact regain a bit of that thunder, along with the other goodies higher volume brings. So I'm not _too_ broken-hearted ...(I know, I know - faithless lover...)...CHEERS!...


----------



## aqsw

Those snake pits are about 60 miles from my house. Quite the thing to see for a week or two in the summer when tens of thousands are slithering around.


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## connieflyer

For a minute I thought we were talking about politicians!


----------



## aqsw

You have Donald, We have Justin.

Both are snakes


----------



## triggsviola

I just bought the Euforia. Tonight I will plug into my Schiit Yggdrasil and report back.


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> I just bought the Euforia. Tonight I will plug into my Schiit Yggdrasil and report back.



Hi triggs...and welcome to our community. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with this amp. And sure also your Yggy will be an excellent DAC for her. 

Can you let us know what your source will be, and which headphones? It's always nice to know the partnering gear ...not to mention which tubes you have in mind lol!! ...(spoilt for choice with these F-A amps...).

Looking forward to your impressions...remembering of course that amp and tubes will take quite a while before delivering their best!...WELL DONE!...


----------



## OctavianH

Am I allowed to ask the S/N of Euforia? I am just curious to know how many owners of Euforia and Elise are there in the world.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Am I allowed to ask the S/N of Euforia? I am just curious to know how many owners of Euforia and Elise are there in the world.



Hi OH...I'm sure our latest owner(s) would be only too happy to oblige...(hopefully! )...


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## OctavianH

And forgot to ask if he can tell us his opinion related to Crossfeed. Even if I followed this thread for already quite some time, I do not remember anyone to comment on Crossfeed and what we can expect from it. 
Maybe it was introduced in the Euforia 2018 and many of the users here are owners of the first generation.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 1, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> And forgot to ask if he can tell us his opinion related to Crossfeed. Even if I followed this thread for already quite some time, I do not remember anyone to comment on Crossfeed and what we can expect from it.
> Maybe it was introduced in the Euforia 2018 and many of the users here are owners of the first generation.



Interesting point OH.

Before the latest upgrade - giving folks the choice to switch xfd on or off, I'm sure there was already a very slight amount implemented in our amps by F-A (but I could be mistaken lol!). My suspicions were ignited after having trouble with my outputs from the Hugo2 DAC (before I found a better line out than the RCAs!)...ie. with one channel dead, I could still hear a very faint signal there from the other channel. Don't know if there's another explanation or not......(But I think I remember someone somewhere also mentioning its presence...).

Whatever, this subject certainly seems to be a rather contentious one! I personally think its effect will depend so much upon the rest of the system, not to mention folks' ability to actually _notice_ any difference!!  All I know is that my H2 has this option, and it _very slightly_ reduces the soundstage width in an attempt to bring more centre focus...but I myself would much rather keep the expansive s/stage, thank you very much!! 

And so it would indeed be very interesting to hear A/Bing results from Euforia also...(any chance @triggsviola ?)...CHEERS!...CJ


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## OctavianH

Even if I am a noob in this matter, I dare to say that the Crossfeed, from the human ear/brain perception side of view, sounds somehow natural since in real life we hear a sound with both our ears and then combine it to perceive it like we do. But maybe my assumption is wrong. This is why I would like to see an opinion about Crossfeed and its effect on Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Even if I am a noob in this matter, I dare to say that the Crossfeed, from the human ear/brain perception side of view, sounds somehow natural since in real life we hear a sound with both our ears and then combine it to perceive it like we do. But maybe my assumption is wrong. This is why I would like to see an opinion about Crossfeed and its effect on Euforia.



Yes indeed OH...this would certainly bring the sound closer to 'natural' - and therefore more like the diffusion we get from speakers/concert hall... but I'm sure part of the appeal of headphone listening is precisely to achieve the _different _presentation they _can_ give lol?


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## connieflyer

I have played around with cross feed a few times in the past, and always switched it off in the end.  It never sounded quite as good, to me.  It does kind of negate the right left sound source.  I know what you mean about the brain mixing the right and left ear sounds together to get a whole, but it does so with the apparent strength and delay of when the sound hits the eardrums.  This gives us the ability to  locate the direction the sound is emanating from.  With cross feed it is taking a portion of the signal from one side and adding it to the opposite side, both ways.  I use J River 24 media center, and it has a section on cross feed and you can add different amounts. The very smallest is not to bad but still takes away from the general quality of the signal.  What I have heard with the Mullard balloon tubes is a spacial representation of the signal source that spreads the sound stage across the whole of the hemisphere  right left top of head and front to back.  With a very good recording it is absolutely amazing.


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## Johnnysound (Feb 2, 2019)

JPS Labs “Lightning” pure silver ICs

Nice brand name !   well, JPS are my initials,  so I am not infringing any copyrights (LOL).  If you like   commercial hype, then these would be “Our reference ICs featuring pure silver/gold Mundorf conductors in a triple “shotgun”,  teflon air dielectric configuration with solder free Furutech connectors ”

Truth is, I just wanted to have some fun, using my tools again  (after quite a long time ) to make some  audio cables from scratch...and at the same time curious about this “audiophile” design.  I decided to go radical with top silver conductors and oversized teflon tubing to allow  “true” air dielectric,  a loose helical design with double returns to minimize electrical  interference and a wide nylon cover to avoid any pressure over the conductors.  (That’s why the cables look like a “quasi ribbon”) 

And how they sound ?  well, let me say that  they faced stiff competition against my excellent  (copper, heavy silver plated) Silver Sonic cables and the equally good Zu Audio ICs.    First impressions ?  strikingly _*different*_ than the other cables.  No more “bloom” in the bass, no more emphasis in the mids, very detailed highs and a surprisingly  quiet, wide open, neutral character that treated all frequencies with the same  aplomb.  Kind of monitor like, not a cable that sounds “pretty” by itself, but very  accurate and revealing of what your gear is capable of.  Also, not a cable for any equipment.  I found them particularly suited for tube gear !!


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> JPS Labs “Lightning” pure silver ICs
> 
> Nice brand name !   well, JPS are my initials,  so I am not infringing any copyrights (LOL).  If you like   commercial hype, then these would be “Our reference ICs featuring pure silver/gold Mundorf conductors in a triple “shotgun”,  teflon air dielectric configuration with solder free Furutech connectors ”
> 
> ...



Wow J...those cables look very professional indeed..._nice_......(I can hear already a gnashing of teeth at JPS Labs...especially their lawyer if you were ever to offer them to the public lol!! ).
And I can sympathise with the fun(?!) you had threading those wires into teflon tubing...(you certainly need a steady hand also!).

I never doubted you would find them to perform spectacularly, and at a fraction of the cost of anything similar commercially. Plus, as you say, they would also be constrained by the need to make them more robust for those not so careful with handling! And I reckon you'll be even more impressed with them once they've burned in some more...

Making one's own cables has got to be one of the best ways to upgrade the performance in one's system without having to spend a fortune. I also applaud your use of 'solder-free' plugs...direct metal-to-metal contact every time is my mantra - when not able to adhere to my other one : 'The best connector is _*no*_ connector' lol!! ...ENJOY!...


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## triggsviola

The serial number on my unit is 0082 (photographed as well). Here are some photos of my desktop. I have the Jotunheim there for comparison. Those are Vanatoo T1 powered speakers. The Euforia is tucked back there because I have small kids and those tubes will likely appear like handles to them. Can't have that!

My signal chain is Foobar/Tidal/Apple Music on the Computer USB out (Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB Cable) ==> Yggdrasil Analog 2 RCA out (Amazon Basics RCA Cable) ==> Euforia ==> Focal Utopia using Moon Audio Black Dragon Headphone Cable.

I'm still only using the stock power cables. My power conditioner is a Furman PST-8D. I don't think it's doing much for me. My next upgrade might be a regenerative power supply and then high quality interconnect cables. Maybe I just have too many electronics jam-packed into a small space. What do you think?

Initial impressions (obviously the tubes need to burn in for a few weeks): The sound quality is astonishing. Not only is this a significant upgrade over the Jotunheim, it's also very different. If adds quite a bit of warmth (and only a bit. I also tried the Elise, which sounded squishy to me) without sacrificing detail. In fact, there is a distinct increase in resolution. The old cliche rings true that I can pick things out in familiar tracks that I didn't know were there. There is also is an increase in depth. Sounds seem to have layers, especially in well-recorded symphonic music. The winds and brass actually sound like they're behind the string section and soloists seem to pop out in front. It makes the Jotunheim sound flat by comparison and part of why I loved the Jotunheim was how much depth it had compared my old Magni. My only complaint, and I'm sure this is a burn-in thing, is that the mid-bass gets a tad boomey on some recordings. It could be the nature of tubes. This is my first OTL amp. I guess I shouldn't complain. At one point I was an avid basshead. Now I'm a detail junky. I love listening to the music that's in between the notes. The Utopia really shines in that regard.

On the crossfeed feature: I played around with this feature quite a bit and found it to be most useful on recordings that just seemed to be too panned out to the extreme, mostly early stereo recordings of classical and jazz music. In particular, the early Juilliard String Quartet recordings. They are so panned to the left and right that it always sounded unnatural with headphones. The crossfeed produced a much more natural stereo image on these recordings. Maybe it's just my ears, but the crossfeed also seemed to make it sound a bit quieter. On modern classical recordings, top 40, movie soundtracks, etc, the crossfeed wasn't really necessary. I think sound engineers have gotten more sophisticated in their mixing since the early days of stereo.

Anyway, those are my hastily typed up impressions. I hope that helps. I'll come back in a few weeks with updates after burn-in.

I bought my Euforia and Utopia at Upscale Audio in La Verne, CA. They are great! Evan, the headphone guy there, is awesome and knowledgeable. I bought my Yggy at the Schiitr in Newhall, CA. Lucky helped me out. That place is a lot of fun. If you're in LA, you should really check both those places out.


----------



## triggsviola




----------



## connieflyer

Johnysound, this is a very nice job indeed,  Nice explanation,very concise and the cables look excellent.  You left out one small detail, like  an order sheet and price list!





Johnnysound said:


> JPS Labs “Lightning” pure silver ICs
> 
> Nice brand name !   well, JPS are my initials,  so I am not infringing any copyrights (LOL).  If you like   commercial hype, then these would be “Our reference ICs featuring pure silver/gold Mundorf conductors in a triple “shotgun”,  teflon air dielectric configuration with solder free Furutech connectors ”
> 
> ...


----------



## connieflyer

Hello triggsviola glad you are enjoying your Euforia, and am sure it will only get better with adequate burn in.  Don't be in too much of a hurry to start rolling tubes, they do make a difference of course, but let your amp settle in nicely.  This is the third tube amp for me, and the Euforia has been the best of the ones I had. My amp is serial number 005 have had it since August of 2017.  I am sorry your Furman is not seeming to help out.  I recently purchased a Furman Elite 15 DMI Linear Power Conditioner and it was immediate.  There was a definete improvement.  I use this only on the headphone equipment including a home built pc and a NAS and I think that is where the improvement came in. I really don't care what where or why I only know I am impressed with it. Having been around this thread and the Elise thread, I can easily advise you on what your next purchase should be.  Just get out your check book, and buy ME a Ferrari!  Color is not important so if one is on sale, I won't mind. Take care and enjoy the music.


----------



## Madhyamika

Welcome aboard @triggsviola - I’m a former Orange County person myself. That’s a lovely rig you’ve put together! I too am using an Yggdrasil A2 to drive a Feliks headamp into Focal headphones. Certainly seems to be a marvelous synergistic combination to my ears, and you’ve got the flagship models above to my Elise and Elex, so I imagine you’re in for a lot of happy listening. One of these days when I’m in CA I’ll have to visit the Schittr. Sounds like a fun place! And very cool that you were also able to listen to both Elise and Euforia before choosing one - no shops in the Pacific Northwest carrying any F-A stuff yet as far as I know. 

I’m half a year into my Elise journey and she keeps getting better with playtime and good tubes. I’m sure you’ll find even more of that with Euforia. Enjoy!


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @ZRW0 . Good to hear from you again...but not so good re. your troubles lol!!
> 
> That USB issue with Hugo2 doesn't sound very clever at all...shouldn't really happen with something at that price . I personally only ever use coaxial digital...no USB for me lol!!
> But I confess to being somewhat intrigued by your findings re. its soundstage. In my system at least - and with modded T1s - it is truly the most amazing 3-dimensional stage I have ever heard...full stop!...strange.... However, I'm glad you've found something you're happier with...and that's a fantastic warranty (10 yrs)!!!
> ...



Hello everybody, hello @hypnos1 ,

Yes the CV450 were new, but I missed the 2 weeks delay to notice the problem and send them back as per the seller's rules (all of this because of my Hugo2 issues).

But, I've been able to get this week a set of 4xEL38 Haltron from a French seller.
I paid 45€ for the 4 tubes ! They're pretended to be NOS (which I doubt a bit), but will complain neither for their price nor for their sounding quality.



They seem of the same conception than the Military CV450 I previously bought, same grey plates, same brownish base, ... BUT, they don't hum at all ! With the volume knob set to 0, or without any sound coming from the DAC, it's now the "perfect black silence".

What I found interesting(concerning?) is when I tried to swap only a pair of CV450 (the one from which one tube was clearly faulty) by a pair of EL38 Haltron (keeping a pair of CV450 in), I noticed my Euforia was humming much less, but still a bit. Weird !
Actually, when I was at <50cm of the amp, I could clearly hear a slight buzz coming from the power supply, even with the headphones unplugged. Tried still to keep a pair of CV450s by interchanging the driver/power places with the Haltrons => still humming from the headphones, power supply noise hearable.
Totally got rid of the CV450s and put the 4 Haltrons on => no power supply buzz, no noise at all, and no humming from the Headphones. And gosh, what a sound quality !!! 

Thanks again for this recommendation H1, the EL38s are quite good in the Euforia (when they work and don't draw-on/disturb the PS too much )

- - -

Otherwise, got a message from the Hugo2 reseller : Chord will not repair my unit, but will replace it this time (I've been provided a new SN which is much more recent(higher) than the previous one). I should receive the new unit imminently, and will likely sell it for a fair price. If anyone is interested, please PM me.


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


>



Hi triggs...and congrats on a *very *nice looking setup you have there .

Many thanks for your comprehensive post giving details of your system, and some pretty good initial impressions already lol! Your comparison with the Jutenheim was also very interesting and informative, and glad to hear you prefer Euforia! 

As @connieflyer says, give everything plenty of time before (perhaps) looking into alternative tubes...not only due to the need for burn-in, but also for you to become more accustomed to the different sound signature of OTL amps, especially compared to SS. With Euforia definitely having a much 'bigger' sound than Elise (amongst other attributes!), bass detail and solidity especially will indeed take a while to develop fully...but once it does, in combination with treble sweetness,  it will have a smoothness of delivery that will probably kill any future desire to return to solid state lol! . And with my own setup at least, Euforia destroys in a flash the oft-quoted criticism of tube amps not having the speed; PRaT; transient attack, detail handling etc. of SS. Hopefully you too will notice this in your own case as time goes on...

In the meantime...ENJOY!...and we look forward to later updates on your impressions...

ps. I must say just one thing - and I hope you don't mind! - I'm somewhat intrigued/confused that given the very high calibre of your gear (especially Utopias!!), you're only using very basic RCA interconnects? I'm quite sure that (much) better ones would also help with bass reproduction, along with a whole host of other improvements...and without having to spend _too_ much lol!...(you know you owe it to yourself..._and_ Euforia LOL!!)...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hello everybody, hello @hypnos1 ,
> 
> Yes the CV450 were new, but I missed the 2 weeks delay to notice the problem and send them back as per the seller's rules (all of this because of my Hugo2 issues).
> 
> ...



Hi ZRW0.

Really glad to hear those Haltron branded Mullards are now giving you the sort of sound - and silent background! - that they should lol! And yes, the clear glass EL38 is definitely the same tube as the CV450, so the only reason for your troublesome ones would appear to be that they're _bad_ ones, I'm afraid!! . I myself have tried a good number of them, and all have behaved perfectly... So sorry you've been unlucky. 

But better news re. the Hugo2...such a shame it doesn't do it for you in your system (again, in mine it doesn't suffer at all from the aspects you mentioned previously...strange...).

Here's hoping you continue to like - and enjoy - the wonderful EL38s (and that they continue to behave lol! ).


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again @ZRW0 .

Forgot to say that 'seller's rules' for returns usually only applies to those simply not liked or wanted, but otherwise OK, no? Goods that are *faulty* are a different matter entirely, especially if one isn't able to check them thoroughly straight away, and are certainly covered under ebay rules or Business trade rules. I myself wouldn't let them get away with it lol!!


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## triggsviola

hypnos1 said:


> Hi triggs...and congrats on a *very *nice looking setup you have there .
> 
> Many thanks for your comprehensive post giving details of your system, and some pretty good initial impressions already lol! Your comparison with the Jutenheim was also very interesting and informative, and glad to hear you prefer Euforia!
> 
> ...



Thank you for the warm welcome!

As you can imagine, I blew my budget entirely on the main components of my setup. I was only able to afford one component every three months. The final piece in this was the Feliks. I need to allow a few months for my bank account to recover before I start looking for a power supply/cables and quality interconnects. In the meantime, I’m using stuff I already had lying around. There is a faint hum at high listening volume. I’m thinking it’s the power.

I have no plans to roll tubes any time soon, but will slowly get into that when I feel like my setup is in a more stable state.


----------



## mordy

triggsviola said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome!
> 
> As you can imagine, I blew my budget entirely on the main components of my setup. I was only able to afford one component every three months. The final piece in this was the Feliks. I need to allow a few months for my bank account to recover before I start looking for a power supply/cables and quality interconnects. In the meantime, I’m using stuff I already had lying around. There is a faint hum at high listening volume. I’m thinking it’s the power.
> 
> I have no plans to roll tubes any time soon, but will slowly get into that when I feel like my setup is in a more stable state.


Hi triggsviola,
Just wanted to chime in on the Jotunheim. I borrowed a Jotunheim from a grandson and compared it to my tube set-up. Even though the bass seemed more punchy with the Jotunheim, overall dynamics and emotional impact were much better with the tube equipment; as you said, the ss amp sounded flat in comparison.
Also found tube combinations that replicated the bass response from the ss equipment.


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## Johnnysound (Feb 4, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Johnysound, this is a very nice job indeed,  Nice explanation,very concise and the cables look excellent.  You left out one small detail, like  an order sheet and price list!



Hey, thanks CF and H1 !!  Order form and price list follows...just joking !   About to begin working on a balanced XLR cable with custom silver/rhodium plugs.

And yes, the best way to truly experience different audio cables is to DIY.  From easy projects involving insulated/shielded cable to more demanding  ones with separate conductors.  But  for original, or “radical” designs involving pure silver, solid core conductors you have to start from zero...the ONLY way (unless you want to pay a lot of money), that you can be absolutely sure of the quality of your components...and building.

Have made many audio cables, and I allways have been skeptical.  Best so far were my DIY silver plated ICs:  a subtle improvement over pure copper, I tought.   However, above certain level of audio the subtetlies are amplified into music and _everything_  in the chain (including cables) become important.

The EL38s (powers) are the kind of tubes capable of this level,  having the uncommon virtue of being _extremely_ faithful to the source:  I mean, revealing, and not in a “subtle” way but with a torrent of music that leaves no room for doubts.

Allow me an example: from Euforia the signal goes to the (12AT7 family) phase inverters which are the _true_ drivers for the powers.  Some people say that their sonic signature is  difficult to identify...not with the EL38s.  In perhaps some of my most instructive and rewarding sessions of tube rolling ever, the EL38s simply revealed the whole truth  about the drivers:  Siemens ECC81 sounded pure German: precise and dry, Brimars 6060 sounded British: pleasant and extended, while Miniwatt Darios were the very definition ot sweetness...with potent lows.  Not an easy task to drive these thoroughbreds,  and recently found that my (relatively cheap) military issue Sylvanias, triple mica, square getter from the fifties can control the wild horses really well...

Being so revealing, these tubes are the first (for me) able to clearly show  certain sonic signatures of cables (between pre and power).  H1 is vastly more qualified than me to talk about silver conductors,  and  at first it was not easy to  evaluate their sound.  Ok, very extended with no emphasis anywhere,  but  kind of different.  Neutral and quiet.  After some hours I noticed that the ultra revealing EL38s were singing stress free, from a black background, relaxed and open...not the sound itself, the _feeling _of it was fantastic...less is more in audio !! (H1, your turn)


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## hypnos1 (Feb 4, 2019)

triggsviola said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome!
> 
> As you can imagine, I blew my budget entirely on the main components of my setup. I was only able to afford one component every three months. The final piece in this was the Feliks. I need to allow a few months for my bank account to recover before I start looking for a power supply/cables and quality interconnects. In the meantime, I’m using stuff I already had lying around. There is a faint hum at high listening volume. I’m thinking it’s the power.
> 
> I have no plans to roll tubes any time soon, but will slowly get into that when I feel like my setup is in a more stable state.



Yo triggs...that must have been quite an assault on your poor wallet lol! But at least you won't have to be looking at upgrading your main components now for a _very_ long time 

That hum might well (hopefully!) be everything settling in. If it doesn't, perhaps testing with different tubes - at a later date - might bring more silence. But you might well be right suspecting the mains power supply...in which case you probably will need to look at better mains conditioning, including good filtering function (and which_ should _also bring improvements in sound reproduction, as @connieflyer mentioned also). But if the hum does ease back sufficiently in the meantime, better interconnects must surely be the next step...once the wallet (and you) have recovered!! ...(ps....any good at DIY for said ICs, as per @Johnnysound ?!!).

HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Feb 4, 2019)

I don't want to whip a dead horse here, but one final comment on power conditioning,  I for years thought because of where I lived and the fact I had such little problems with brown outs, black outs, and any other related problems with the grid, that I thought things were okay. I looked at power conditioning as a luxury, that helped those that needed it, but not those that had good supply.  I spent close to $500 on mine, it was on sale for a short time and I jumped on it.  I figured, I at least was covering all the bases this way.  The results were immediate.  I have all the audio concerning headphone use connected.  Main pc, with a bronze 750 watt power supply, an NAS, a Cambridge music streamer, a Gumby dac, Logitech 3 way powered speaker system, and the Euforia.  The main music system is not connected, nor the video. Before the conditioner,  it sounded black with no signal from the amp.  So I always thought I was good to go.  Well, after the Furman was added, yes it was still black, no sound with no signal applied.  But it was somehow, more completely black, the phones , Senn 800, had nothing, no sound at all. Almost seemed like being in a  large darkened room.  You could not see any light nor hear any sound , but you were aware of a large space, instead of a small enclosed room. About the best I can describe it. Music being sent through the system, was obviously better in all regards. It was at once darker, instruments were more easily placed in sound stage. Best money I have ever spent.  For the price of this equipment alone,  I spent more on a pair of GEC 6AS7 and GEC 6080 tubes than this, and I no longer have the GEC's. I have spent many times over what I paid for the Furman, just on tubes, looking for the elusive eureka moment.  Now being paired with the Mullard EL38's and Valvo EL 11, even though I thought the balloon tubes may have sounded better, I am very satisfied with what I am hearing. NO regrets for buying the Furman, none what so ever. The subtle nuances are so pleasant and the explosions of sound when they happen is extremely satisfying.  Okay, I have vented, I will leave this to others.  I had to look at it from the position of what I spent just on tubes to realize it was not extravagant .  Plus, now everything is under a top notch protection circuit, instead of power strips.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 4, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Hey, thanks CF and H1 !!  Order form and price list follows...just joking !   About to begin working on a balanced XLR cable with custom silver/rhodium plugs.
> 
> And yes, the best way to truly experience different audio cables is to DIY.  From easy projects involving insulated/shielded cable to more demanding  ones with separate conductors.  But  for original, or “radical” designs involving pure silver, solid core conductors you have to start from zero...the ONLY way (unless you want to pay a lot of money), that you can be absolutely sure of the quality of your components...and building.
> 
> ...



Hi J...my turn?...oh dear, how long have you got lol? And I doubt folks want to be having to trawl through yet another of my diatribes!!  

_However_...I shall _try_ to keep it brief!!

First, re. good cables - you're right, of course...the better one's gear, the more cables (and connectors!) become important and can actually display just what kind of extras they bring to the table.
And second...yes again - it really does pay dividends if one can manage a fairly easy (with certain provisos) bit of DIY, and make them up oneself. Probably the _very_ best way is indeed to put everything together from scratch, and allows for personal choice of all materials needed...and at a fraction of the commercial cable cost. I personally found it informative in making such choice by studying the wire makeup and construction of the really top end (and ridiculously expensive!) cables. For example, a popular approach seems to be to use multiple wires (solid) of different gauges, which I myself copied. As for which _type_ of wire, there are definitely 2 main camps - pure copper or pure silver, but a 3rd could well be silver-plated copper (mixed opinions!). And the _really_ expensive guys extol the virtues of _mono-crystal OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) wire_.

I myself have found in the past that pure silver (99.99%, *soft-annealed*) has always assisted in providing greater clarity, detail, controlled bass, supreme treble and all the elements associated with good soundstage. Everything sounds so much 'cleaner'...one aspect of that 'kind of difference' you mentioned, and which is indeed sometimes hard to put into other words - you just _know_ there's something special going on lol! . And silver (pure) - especially *solid*, as opposed to multi (fine)-strand, manages this feat somewhat better than copper IMHO (and generally regarded so). *But*...copper (again, high purity) _can_ bring just a bit more in the lower bass and mids areas. Which is why I have also always included at least some (solid) copper in my own cables.

And so we come to...'pure' 99.99% silver, or the much more expensive OCC wire? Well, all I can say is that from personal experience, the hype surrounding the amazing latter wire is _not_ just a marketing gimmick. The single-crystal nature of 'UltraPure' (multiple 9s!) wire takes the aforementioned qualities up yet another notch...to the point where one can even notice differences between equally hi-Q connectors used! However, this level of performance will definitely depend on the level of resolution throughout the rest of the system...not to mention one's hearing lol! . And unless accompanying gear costing _many_ thousands, certainly not worth paying the normal costs for ready-made cables IMHO. But if one can keep lengths at a metre or less - which is usually enough for ICs - then IMO the cost of DIYing them is worth every single penny!

So...although I would now make up ICs 'from scratch', rather than just terminating ready-made cable (which I don't need to anyway, preferring _direct_ connection to equipment), the latter can still be extremely good if using Neotech's UP-OCC silver IC cable, as shown below. But I myself added solid UP-OCC copper wire both ways. But if starting from scratch, their teflon-coated DIY wire makes life MUCH easier...removing the need to thread bare wire through teflon tubing! This is what I used for my replacement T1 headphone cable, as also shown...

1.


Neotech NEI 2001 XLR cable...with *3* conductors, each having *3* different gauges of wire...MUCH more silver and better value than the 'RCA' SE cable, even if not using the 3rd wire lol!! I personally used _two_ conductors for signal (therefore SIX wires!), and added some more silver to the 3rd for return, plus a copper wire both ways....Overkill?...very possibly lol!!

2....Work-in-progress photo!!


Neotech teflon-coated 'hook up' wire - 2x different gauges of UP-OCC silver plus 1x copper, both for signal and return/ground (then lightly twisted)...in this case for each hp channel (12 wires in all lol!!). Finally covered in expandable sleeving.

So this could well be good for ICs also...although that shielding on their XLR cable is probably far better than one could achieve oneself, via twisting of the wires and/or adding to bulk by using additional teflon tubing.

This cable and wires are available here in the UK from Hi-fi Collective : https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nei-2001-interconnect-cable.html
I don't know if the same choice is available from other Neotech outlets however...

ps. Did I say _brief?_...(should have known better...sorry!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hey guys...just a quickie this time.

Thanks @triggsviola for giving us your serial number. *82* is a pretty good figure for Euforia sales, I reckon. So I'm very pleased for Feliks-Audio...and for taking the plunge to actually take seriously my modest(?!) requests to upgrade my Elise... and then turn it into this wonderful amp! 

And congrats @connieflyer for finding that one of our previous top drivers - the EL11 - performs so well when accompanying the EL38s as powers. This is especially good news for those who may still have some 11s pining away in the attic lol! . Must dig out my own and see for myself...trouble is I just don't want to even touch my 'mix and match' Dario and large 'balloon' old 38s (especially as they do seem  prone to too much 'interference'!! ). They just keep getting even better with each new day, which I didn't think could be at all possible......so there they'll stay for ever more..._probably?!_......CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

I am finding the El 11 El 38 combo very good indeed.  I tried the El12 Spezial as drivers also, but these seem to me to sound a bit better.  Might be that the Valvo EL 11 were NOS but I think it is probably more a "choice" thing.


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## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> I am finding the El 11 El 38 combo very good indeed.  I tried the El12 Spezial as drivers also, but these seem to me to sound a bit better.  Might be that the Valvo EL 11 were NOS but I think it is probably more a "choice" thing.



Hi c.f/h1
I've retired my balloon EL38's also, for now anyway. Sylvania  6SN7WGT's drivers with brown base EL38's, this combo is definitely the best I've ever heard the Elise sound. Spent this afternoon testing them out on bluegrass to classical and everything in between. All sounded great. Really made me feel I was getting the best out of my HD800 for the first time, at least the best I can expect with my present set-up.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi c.f/h1
> I've retired my balloon EL38's also, for now anyway. Sylvania  6SN7WGT's drivers with brown base EL38's, this combo is definitely the best I've ever heard the Elise sound. Spent this afternoon testing them out on bluegrass to classical and everything in between. All sounded great. Really made me feel I was getting the best out of my HD800 for the first time, at least the best I can expect with my present set-up.



Hi bt...glad you've found the combo that suits your system and ears. It's looking like the EL38s as powers will bring out the best in a good variety of drivers, so there should be a combo to suit _all_ tastes/gear. And the fact that they can still be found for not too much money (at the moment, anyway!) really is the icing on the cake lol ...ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...glad you've found the combo that suits your system and ears. It's looking like the EL38s as powers will bring out the best in a good variety of drivers, so there should be a combo to suit _all_ tastes/gear. And the fact that they can still be found for not too much money (at the moment, anyway!) really is the icing on the cake lol ...ENJOY!...CJ



Just took the plunge. Euforia from classified purchased. At least no more tubes to buy. Hope it matches all the spiel.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Just took the plunge. Euforia from classified purchased. At least no more tubes to buy. Hope it matches all the spiel.



WELL DONE bt...I'm sure you won't be disappointed ...(going by not only my own findings, but also all others who've upgraded from Elise lol! ).

And you will probably be even _more_ impressed with the EL38s' performance in her...and whichever drivers take your fancy (such a shame that your 'United' balloon 38s didn't seem to be up to scratch ...but even the old Mullard and Philips 'balloon' versions can be temperamental to say the least - especially used tubes, unfortunately! ).

So, good times ahead, I'm sure....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

HI BT once you get some time on the new amp, how about giving us your impression of the two amps.  Not too many folks have had both at the same time, should be interesting. Good luck with the new amp.


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## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Just took the plunge. Euforia from classified purchased. At least no more tubes to buy. Hope it matches all the spiel.


Congratulations bt!, not jealous... much! lol. I had the chance to get a used Euforia about a year ago, hesitated, and missed out, regretted it ever since as a new one is just a bit too much, I'll have to keep an eye on the classifieds!. Hope you enjoy!.


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Congratulations bt!, not jealous... much! lol. I had the chance to get a used Euforia about a year ago, hesitated, and missed out, regretted it ever since as a new one is just a bit too much, I'll have to keep an eye on the classifieds!. Hope you enjoy!.



Thanks Scutey. I too failed to take the plunge on one several months ago. I then decided I would dip into my retirement savings, it was always going to happen at some stage. I'm sure one will come along in classified with your name on.


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## teknorob23

I went to demo the Elise today and bought the Euphoria, just wow!! Back home now beginning the 4 week wait for it to be built and my Hugo2 has never sounded so thin  :0 

I'm pretty new to tubes so have i'm loving this thread and learning a lot, like this is the just first part of my investment


----------



## OctavianH

And what changed your mind? What was the setup you tried (DAC, HP, others)?


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I went to demo the Elise today and bought the Euphoria, just wow!! Back home now beginning the 4 week wait for it to be built and my Hugo2 has never sounded so thin  :0
> 
> I'm pretty new to tubes so have i'm loving this thread and learning a lot, like this is the just first part of my investment



Hi teknorob...and welcome to you too. Yet another enthusiastic response in favour of Euforia after direct comparison with Elise...the very best way to judge, of course! (Auditory memory being notoriously short lol! ). It's very gratifying to see more folks recognising the improved performance from its numerous upgrades! 

If you can afford the time, there is indeed a fair wealth of knowledge and experience throughout this thread...not to mention the Elise ones lol! Give yourself plenty of time for the amp and tubes to settle in, and for you to become accustomed to their sound. Then you might want to get a bit more adventurous...plenty of info on that subject here!! 

And I certainly agree with you re. what she can do for Hugo2. I'm afraid that as with some other areas of contention(?!), I disagree with Rob Watts's belief that any additional external amplification won't match H2's direct output..._poppycock!!_ ...(and we are by no means alone in finding this...especially when (good!) tube amps are involved...).

And so...WELL DONE and GOOD LUCK!...and hopefully you won't have too long a wait for your own Euforia...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi teknorob...and welcome to you too. Yet another enthusiastic response in favour of Euforia after direct comparison with Elise...the very best way to judge, of course! (Auditory memory being notoriously short lol! ). It's very gratifying to see more folks recognising the improved performance from its numerous upgrades!
> 
> If you can afford the time, there is indeed a fair wealth of knowledge and experience throughout this thread...not to mention the Elise ones lol! Give yourself plenty of time for the amp and tubes to settle in, and for you to become accustomed to their sound. Then you might want to get a bit more adventurous...plenty of info on that subject here!!
> 
> ...



thanks for the warm welcome CJ and yes i cant wait for it arrive... i'm told this is part of the fun! Yes i've never quite got that assertion re the Hugo, because to my mind it ignores so many other variables. My chain is roon > auralic aries > hugo2 > Focal Elegias all of which in enjoy greatly, but which together are a little lacking in body, emotion and sometimes a musical cohesion in the presentation favouring outight analysis instead. I listened to the Elise first, trying desperately to avoid making eye contact with "the house with the swimming pool" next door. The Elise is very impressive in its own right, adding a lovely body and liquidity to my set up, but i have to say i was pretty shocked at how much better the euphoria was in every department, extra detail, definiton and clarity but still with lovely liquidity and weight. No bloom in the bass just all the layers the chord shows, but with added weight and texture. The mids and top are just sublime. The biggest shock is how, relatively, small the premium is over the Elise for such a drastic improvement. By comparison to the Chords range, i think the difference between the two Feliks as probably greater than it is between H2 and Hugo TT2 and on to the DAVE, where the price doubles each time. That said i'd love to hear how far the TT2 or Dave can push the Euphoria.

As you can probably tell i'm a little over excited, more than a 46 year old should be,  but in my 25 years + or buying hifi i can probably count the kit one hand that has such an obvious and positive impact on my system from the off. Thanks again  Rob


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome to you also techno Rob 23, I'm sure that you are going to find the euforia a very welcome addition to your system. I have found listening to mine has brought me much pleasure and I do remember it being better than Elise and I thought that was a very good amplifier as well. Felix audio has struck gold again! As h-has said, while you're waiting for the amplifier if you would like to peruse the previous pages both here and the Elise thread, I think you will find them very worthwhile we have built up a wealth of knowledge on these two threads. Welcome aboard!


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> thanks for the warm welcome CJ and yes i cant wait for it arrive... i'm told this is part of the fun! Yes i've never quite got that assertion re the Hugo, because to my mind it ignores so many other variables. My chain is roon > auralic aries > hugo2 > Focal Elegias all of which in enjoy greatly, but which together are a little lacking in body, emotion and sometimes a musical cohesion in the presentation favouring outight analysis instead. I listened to the Elise first, trying desperately to avoid making eye contact with "the house with the swimming pool" next door. The Elise is very impressive in its own right, adding a lovely body and liquidity to my set up, but i have to say i was pretty shocked at how much better the euphoria was in every department, extra detail, definiton and clarity but still with lovely liquidity and weight. No bloom in the bass just all the layers the chord shows, but with added weight and texture. The mids and top are just sublime. The biggest shock is how, relatively, small the premium is over the Elise for such a drastic improvement. By comparison to the Chords range, i think the difference between the two Feliks as probably greater than it is between H2 and Hugo TT2 and on to the DAVE, where the price doubles each time. That said i'd love to hear how far the TT2 or Dave can push the Euphoria.
> 
> As you can probably tell i'm a little over excited, more than a 46 year old should be,  but in my 25 years + or buying hifi i can probably count the kit one hand that has such an obvious and positive impact on my system from the off. Thanks again  Rob



Over excited at 46yrs young lol? Here am I at 68 (and getting older by the day!), and I'm _still_ getting excited by just what Euforia is capable of achieving...as you may well have gathered from my recent postings!!  (And newfound discoverers of what Euforia can do excite me just as much! ).

Must admit I was torn between the Aries and Naim UnitiCore...the latter won out in the end, despite lacking many of the niceties lol ...(but have no regrets...)....BFN...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Feb 8, 2019)

Hi guys..............................*A NOTE (OR TWO!) ON... NOISY TUBES...
*
Having spent literally _days_ trying to remedy a NOS large 'balloon' Mullard EL38 (black coating and plate), I have at least discovered what could possibly explain many instances of a tube either starting off with nasty _hiss_*/*_rustle_*/crackle *noises, or developing later.

Assuming it can't be traced to either dirty pins/sockets or faulty adapter, if used, I'm afraid such noises most likely denote a *faulty* tube, and beyond repair. (Assuming also the amp is OK!!).

This applies *definitely* to such obviously worrying sounds, as opposed to microphonic 'ringing' - which if only mild, might respond well to use of silicone rubber 'O' rings placed tightly over the tube, or self-amalgamating tape wound round it, as mentioned by @mordy . However, such ringing still indicates a *faulty *tube, and if it still persists, should be returned as such ASAP if in a newly purchased item!

Both 'crackle' and ringing will be made worse by lightly tapping the tube's base...and certainly in the case of the former, when combined with such noise not disappearing fairly quickly, pretty well guarantees a tube beyond repair. And even if the crackle does abate for a while, if it's still noisy with a tap, and/or returns after further on/offs...my advice is *remove it at once - it's all but dead!* And _*return*_ it, again, if newly purchased.

And my certainty that the tube could be at fault? My hating not knowing the true cause of such disappointment/frustration/anger prompted me to smash said Mullard and have a good look inside lol! And although NOS, and looking just fine, I eventually discovered that both (there are 2, as opposed to the normal 1) internal signal grid to wire tack weld connections had come adrift. And although first testing with my adapter seemed OK, my process of adapting the tube's base was obviously sufficient to dislodge the connections. 

And so even without this tampering, it was of course only a matter of time before thermal expansion then cooling would have caused such a failure ...and even with extreme care in handling, unfortunately. This is a gamble we must all take when using very old tubes, naturally - especially _large_ ones. But if we're lucky, it's a gamble that can reward us *big* time .

A photo of said culprit : 


 

Red arrow showing the location of where the thick wire with 'wing' should actually be attached to the copper grid post beneath it (prised open further for illustration purposes). The same had happened to the second connection opposite it...no wonder I've been tearing out what's left of my poor hair lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


ps. Forgot to mention another possible cause of tube 'crackle' that may need to be eliminated...shall update in a later post...


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## connieflyer

Good morning H, said to see that the Mullard's could not be repaired. Those were such good sounding tubes. On a positive note, at least you know that your craftsmanship were not at fault. At least that is positive.  I am still waiting for the tape from China to arrive, should be next week, and then I will try that to see if micro phonics at done, or if it is to late for mine as well. On a brighter note, the El11, El38 combo is working very well indeed.  The Valvo El 11 are burning in nicely, and am quite happy with them.  Stop pulling on the hair, it does not grow back like it used to! Take care my friend.


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## teknorob23

Not that i should let the mind wonder, but did anyone listen to the Auris HA2-SE before buying their Euphoria?


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## hypnos1 (Feb 9, 2019)

Hi guys.

As an addendum to my post on 'noisy tubes', I must remind folks that tube 'crackle' can also sometimes be caused not just by _dirty_ pins or sockets, but also poor actual connection with the socket receptors for other reasons.

This may be the result of thinner than normal pins themselves; excessive corrosion that has been removed, thereby also making the pins thinner; and/or socket receptors that can become loose over time, depending on their design...(and it only needs one to be this way for it to be difficult to diagnose lol!). Luckily, however, most can be prised back into place to make a tighter connection with the pin. I personally found this to be a common problem with my early Elise sockets, that used - IMHO - the type with receptors that are guaranteed to suffer this kind of problem after not too much tube rolling...ie. the sort in the photo :






With these, it's simply a matter of prising the two opposing metal 'lugs' back closer together. With other fuller (round) multi-segmented sections, each can be pushed back to reduce the hole diameter again. But too much repetition of these actions will eventually weaken the socket's ability to grab the pin!

Usually however, if light tapping on the bottom part of the tube creates/worsens the crackle sound, it's much more likely to be the tube at fault anyway...

ps. Mind you, the lovely Teflon socket receptor contacts in our Euforias are of the solid kind of course, so no danger of them weakening with repeated tube rolling lol!


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## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> As an addendum to my post on 'noisy tubes', I must remind folks that tube 'crackle' can also sometimes be caused not just by _dirty_ pins or sockets, but also poor actual connection with the socket receptors for other reasons.
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
I got a set of socket savers that were so tight that I had to struggle to remove the tubes to the point of using a small flat blade screw driver wedged between the socket saver and the tube to remove the tube.
Contacted the seller, who advised me to put in a flat blade screw driver to push out the pins.
The results were disastrous and rendered the socket savers unusable - no good contact any more.
Would you mind describing, preferably with pictures, how to tighten/loosen the socket pins and which tools to use?

Another observation: When dealing with tubes that could be upwards of 75 year old I found that the first step is to superglue the bases and anode caps (if so equipped), especially on European tubes which seem to have glue that succumbs to age more often than US tubes.
And I had tubes that crackled and popped, but once the base was glued on this all disappeared.
There is a superglue that comes with a little brush in the cap which is perfect for reaching in into the space between the base and the tube.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> I got a set of socket savers that were so tight that I had to struggle to remove the tubes to the point of using a small flat blade screw driver wedged between the socket saver and the tube to remove the tube.
> Contacted the seller, who advised me to put in a flat blade screw driver to push out the pins.
> The results were disastrous and rendered the socket savers unusable - no good contact any more.
> ...



Hi mordy.

Re. _tightening_ the socket receptors, I personally found the best method was to simply prise the outer edges of the connector back towards the middle, with a tiny screwdriver as used for mending the small screws in spectacles, for example. A magnifying glass or very strong close-up reading specs will certainly help lol!

As for _loosening_ the socket pins, I must admit I've never come across this particular problem to any great degree. If the receptors are segmented, then I should imagine the safest method would be to try and find something cylindrical in shape that is marginally bigger than the pin diameter...or a conical-shaped (strong!) wooden stick of the right dimensions, and with increasing diameter...using increasing pressure. Some receptors are in fact solid (not segmented) and so cannot be altered of course! In such a case, the only real alternative is to ensure as smooth a pin surface as possible - perhaps with the aid of Deoxit for example - and as you mentioned, gradually prising the tube base away from the socket, one area at a time..._carefully_ of course, so as not to damage any surrounding area of the amp! I personally think this much preferable with a tight fitting tube anyway...especially when pulling out the tube by itself can result in an unexpected _sudden_ release lol!  .

And yes indeed...gluing down top caps, if present, and bases on old tubes especially, is vital...and is something I have been stressing often, and for quite some time now......

So all in all, old tubes really do need a good deal of care and attention, but it can certainly be worth it in the end. Taking the precautionary measures stated can sometimes remedy the problems mentioned, but if they persist - in newly acquired tubes, that is - I definitely encourage folks to return them ASAP...there are too many dodgy tubes out there...not to mention the occasional dodgy seller lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## point1

triggsviola said:


> The serial number on my unit is 0082 (photographed as well). Here are some photos of my desktop. I have the Jotunheim there for comparison. Those are Vanatoo T1 powered speakers. The Euforia is tucked back there because I have small kids and those tubes will likely appear like handles to them. Can't have that!
> 
> My signal chain is Foobar/Tidal/Apple Music on the Computer USB out (Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB Cable) ==> Yggdrasil Analog 2 RCA out (Amazon Basics RCA Cable) ==> Euforia ==> Focal Utopia using Moon Audio Black Dragon Headphone Cable.
> 
> ...




I'm looking to do the same stack, in fact I'm on my way to upscale Audio to listen to the Felix.   Question for you, did you listen to other tube amps?  

I was considering of ordering eddie current studio jr.


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> I listened to the Elise first, trying desperately to avoid making eye contact with "the house with the swimming pool" next door. The Elise is very impressive in its own right, adding a lovely body and liquidity to my set up, but i have to say i was pretty shocked at how much better the euphoria was in every department, extra detail, definiton and clarity but still with lovely liquidity and weight. No bloom in the bass just all the layers the chord shows, but with added weight and texture. The mids and top are just sublime. The biggest shock is how, relatively, small the premium is over the Elise for such a drastic improvement. By comparison to the Chords range, i think the difference between the two Feliks as probably greater than it is between H2 and Hugo TT2 and on to the DAVE, where the price doubles each time. That said i'd love to hear how far the TT2 or Dave can push the Euphoria.



If you tried them with each ones stock tubes the truth is in the middle. I have to admit that I never listened to Elise's stock ones since I already owned tubes for it when I bought it, but I can say that during the last year I drastically improved it with better tubes and by filtering everything I could (AC, interconnects, DAC zone).
What would be very interesting would be to hear a 1:1 comparison using the same tube pairs and setup. I am convinced the difference exists, but it is not as big as you describe.


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## barontan2418

Elise's big brother just arrived, time for some fun. My experience with tube amps is limited to B/H Crack and Darkvoice both of which obviously fall below Elise. As any Brits here know its almost impossible to hear top end gear in the UK but I know what I like and both Felix amps are very good with the right tubes.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good morning H, said to see that the Mullard's could not be repaired. Those were such good sounding tubes. On a positive note, at least you know that your craftsmanship were not at fault. At least that is positive.  I am still waiting for the tape from China to arrive, should be next week, and then I will try that to see if micro phonics at done, or if it is to late for mine as well. On a brighter note, the El11, El38 combo is working very well indeed.  The Valvo El 11 are burning in nicely, and am quite happy with them.  Stop pulling on the hair, it does not grow back like it used to! Take care my friend.



Hi cf...can't promise to save what's left of my hair - am still getting over the loss of that NOS Mullard 'balloon' EL38! .

However, I take at least a little comfort from the positive note you mentioned re. my tinkering not really being to blame lol.... And also the fact that my other 2 (1x Philips MiniWatt, 1x Mullard) are still behaving themselves perfectly...and _still_ improving by the day! . In combination with my Dario EL38s - 1 of each as drivers and powers - they are now definitely performing far better (in every sense) than _any_ top class 6SN7s or 6AS7Gs I've tried...and more so even than any 'alternatives', including other ELs. 
And so I'm praying to whoever will listen that they continue to behave...plus I shan't be touching them any more than necessary!!!

I must add that the EL38 family is proving to need just as long as the EL32 to reach their best...ie. well in excess of 100hrs. And this, even though the heaters take 7 times more power than the 32! I suspect that in this case, it's down to the EL38 being MUCH larger!! . Whatever, I urge folks to give them far longer burn-in than they might realise...especially as drivers....

And I do hope, mon ami, that the self-amalgamating tape manages to extend the life of your own large 'balloon' 38s...if not, given how thorough I was in adapting them, I'm afraid they will be beyond rescuing alas, and will have to wing their way back to me ...so fingers _and_ toes crossed!!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Elise's big brother just arrived, time for some fun. My experience with tube amps is limited to B/H Crack and Darkvoice both of which obviously fall below Elise. As any Brits here know its almost impossible to hear top end gear in the UK but I know what I like and both Felix amps are very good with the right tubes.



Hi bt...GREAT NEWS!...and a very impressive setup indeed - especially with Elise *and* Euforia sitting opposite each other..._nice...
_
So now you will be in the perfect position for A/B comparison...methinks your poor ears and brain will soon be well into overload territory lol! ...GOOD LUCK!...(looking forward to your results...)....CJ


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> If you tried them with each ones stock tubes the truth is in the middle. I have to admit that I never listened to Elise's stock ones since I already owned tubes for it when I bought it, but I can say that during the last year I drastically improved it with better tubes and by filtering everything I could (AC, interconnects, DAC zone).
> What would be very interesting would be to hear a 1:1 comparison using the same tube pairs and setup. I am convinced the difference exists, but it is not as big as you describe.



Don't forget, OH, that just as your Elise has made drastic improvements from stock, so does Euforia with the same treatment ...thus the gap between the two remains pretty well the same IMHO.

In my own case, my present tube complement takes Euforia into another league entirely in fact...and even before this wonderful state of affairs, the same tube combos performed much better in Euforia than they ever did in my Elise. From then on, Euforia's _potential_ really starts to shine...making the price differential much more appealing!


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## Scutey (Feb 9, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Elise's big brother just arrived, time for some fun. My experience with tube amps is limited to B/H Crack and Darkvoice both of which obviously fall below Elise. As any Brits here know its almost impossible to hear top end gear in the UK but I know what I like and both Felix amps are very good with the right tubes.


Looks good bt!. It appears from you pic that you have the same type tubes in both amps, it would be very interesting if you do an a/b comparison and What the differences you notice between the two amps using the same type of tubes, as much as I love the Elise I must admit I am wavering towards purchasing a new Euforia .


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Looks good bt!. It appears from you pic that you have the same type tubes in both amps, it would be very interesting if you do an a/b comparison and What the differences you notice between the two amps using the same type of tubes, as much as I love the Elise I must admit I am wavering towards purchasing a new Euforia .



Hi scutey.
It's a little early for meaningful comments other than as good as the Elise is the difference is not subtle. The Euforia is looking to be a step up in many area's - definition and clarity, imaging  and layering are definitely improved. I'm sure other area's will show themselves as I continue to try different genres of music and tracks I'm formiliar with for comparison.


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## Scutey (Feb 9, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hi scutey.
> It's a little early for meaningful comments other than as good as the Elise is the difference is not subtle. The Euforia is looking to be a step up in many area's - definition and clarity, imaging  and layering are definitely improved. I'm sure other area's will show themselves as I continue to try different genres of music and tracks I'm formiliar with for comparison.


Cheers bt, sounds like you're enjoying your Euforia. You're not wrong about the scarcity of places in the UK to test high end audio gear, in the last few years anything I've been interested in, has been unavailable anywhere within 200 miles or so, yesterday I  contacted Audio barn regarding the Euforia, and I  was invited to try one out at their shop, ufortunately it's 200 miles away!.


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Cheers bt, sounds like you're enjoying your Euforia. You're not wrong about the scarcity of places in the UK to test high end audio gear, in the last few years anything I've been interested in, has been unavailable anywhere within 200 miles or so, yesterday I  contacted Audio barn regarding the Euforia, and I  was invited to try one out at their shop, ufortunately it's 200 miles away!.



If your anywhere near Leeds in the near future your always wecome to try mine.
When I first started getting interested in audio the Sennheiser HD 700 was the nearest I could find to high end phones in Leeds. Every single item I've purchased since then (2015) was without the ability to hear before I bought. Guess with the help of head-fi I've been very lucky.


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## Scutey

Thanks for the offer bt, it's very much appreciated!, unfortunately circumstances mean I never get to go anywhere near Leeds, Plymouth is quite a distance (sadly). We do have a Richer Sounds store but they never have anything i'm interested in to demo. Just like you all of my purchases have been at least partly down to recommendations and consensus from Head-Fi, it really is invaluable, without it, it would be pure chance.


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## mordy

I happen to have both the Elise and Euforia. IMHO the main difference is that the Euforia has a more full bodied sound while the Elise is more lean sounding - both have the FA house sound.
The same tubes can be used in both amps and all the improvements with better tubes than stock will be readily heard in both.
I do want to point out something that I learnt through experience, and that is that the best sounding tube combinations in one amp may not be the best sounding tubes in another brand amp. Therefore a comparison between different brands may not benefit from using identical tubes to bring out the best sound in each one. And then you have amps that simply cannot use the same tubes as the other amp.
A comparison has to be within the individual context of each amp.


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## barontan2418

mordy said:


> I happen to have both the Elise and Euforia. IMHO the main difference is that the Euforia has a more full bodied sound while the Elise is more lean sounding - both have the FA house sound.
> The same tubes can be used in both amps and all the improvements with better tubes than stock will be readily heard in both.
> I do want to point out something that I learnt through experience, and that is that the best sounding tube combinations in one amp may not be the best sounding tubes in another brand amp. Therefore a comparison between different brands may not benefit from using identical tubes to bring out the best sound in each one. And then you have amps that simply cannot use the same tubes as the other amp.
> A comparison has to be within the individual context of each amp.



Fully agree mordy that different tubes should be tried however both amps do seem to like the EL38 - Sylvania pairing.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 10, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Fully agree mordy that different tubes should be tried however both amps do seem to like the EL38 - Sylvania pairing.



Hi bt.

This is to be expected actually, as both amps are configured exactly the same, and by the same maker...but with a good few more upgrades of very high quality . And as I mentioned previously, such upgrades will indeed therefore enable Euforia to coax even_ better_ performance out of any tube used...along with higher quality components throughout the rest of the system lol!

Glad you are noticing the sort of performance increase to warrant your assault on the wallet!  And that such an A/B comparison should ease the minds of others who have taken the plunge...or are seriously considering it. Yours is a position for such an assessment that cannot be bettered, of course! ...Well done!...CJ

ps. It really is a shame that as with @Scutey 's location, I myself am stuck here in the outback of the most Easterly point of the UK...might as well be in the Outer Hebrides as far as transport links are concerned lol!! 

pps. Looking forward to more impressions as you continue with hearing your favourite tracks anew...

ppps. It would appear @teknorob23 that your assessment of Elise vs Euforia wasn't over-exaggerated after all...but then, I myself knew that anyway lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

Ok guys, I accept your opinion that the difference is as described. By the way, any news from F.A. camp regarding 2019? Do they plan to improve something on Elise/Euforia amps?

PS. I thought that only here in Transylvania there were problems with audio shops and England is a Heaven but it seems I was mistaken.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Ok guys, I accept your opinion that the difference is as described. By the way, any news from F.A. camp regarding 2019? Do they plan to improve something on Elise/Euforia amps?
> 
> PS. I thought that only here in Transylvania there were problems with audio shops and England is a Heaven but it seems I was mistaken.



Hi OH.

I'm afraid I myself haven't yet had any word on plans for 2019...and things seem to have gone quiet recently on the upcoming new 2A3 flagship headphone and speaker amp...(not surprising really, given it's a very ambitious project lol!). Am hoping there will in fact be news fairly soon, and will let folks know of its status ASAP of course...

And as for audio in the UK...I'm afraid _serious_ hi-fi enthusiasts have very few good outlets alas - especially for tube amps! Which is extremely saddening and discouraging.... Thus, forums such as ours are an invaluable source of info and advice!


----------



## teknorob23 (Feb 11, 2019)

@hypnos1 and @OctavianH this was these were the first tube amps i've ever properly demo'd and i can see they're a bit of an anomaly compared to auditioning other kit which is largely listened to, then and and after in its stock form, so comment were purely based on what was put in front of me. The most exciting revelation i have is that i am sitting at my desk, at home listening to a Euphoria as i write this. How, well its down to the incredible generosity and other worldly customer service of Jack at the Audiobarn (sole UK stockist), who has lent me their demo unit to use until my new one arrives from Poland. I'm going to have to take all of your words that it can sound better


----------



## triggsviola

Question: I'm still a tube noob, so bear with me if this is a stupid question. My Focal Utopias, Elex, and Senn HD650 all sound great with this amplifier. I plugged in my MrSpeakers Æon Flow Closed and I had to turn the volume up very high in order to get a listenable volume. When I did, there was a distinct increase in distortion, especially in the bass. These headphones have an impedance of 13Ω and a sensitivity of 92dB/mW. They should be easy to drive. I remember hearing something about OTL amps requiring higher impedance headphones. Could the Æons be affected by this principle?


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds like it is the impedance of only 13 ohms .  Feliks recommends Supported headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm
including planar magnetics  So the amp is pushing very hard to make music at 13 ohms.


----------



## connieflyer

I sold my Elise,  before the Euforia ever arrived, so I did not have a direct comparison of the two.  However , even though auditory memory is short lived, I knew from the first turn on with the Euforia, that it was a better sound.  I was not disapointed nor had a thought of well they sound the same, it was a wow, this is a better sound.  Here in the states it is hard to find tube amps to demo, and even harder to find a Feliks Product.  I live in Michigan, and when I inquired from the few audio stores within a few hundred miles, I got the same answer, what is a Feliks amp?  Such  a large area, and so many products competition is high.  Better quality equipment is making a comeback, the millenial folks with the desire for quantity of music on digital equipment that is portable, over quality sound, had been all the rage.  But the better quality music is still fairly strong, and am looking for it to continue. With H's discovery of the El family of tubes for the Feliks amps, auditory pleasure increased significantly.  The balloon tubes sounded the best so far, but are a bit unreliable, but using the El38's as powers, and the EL 11's as drivers has so far been my favorite combo's.  Continues to improve and I believe that H has said they may need more burn in than others, is showing to be true so far.


----------



## aqsw

Just ordered 6x el38 grade ones.

My Euforia and Elise will both be running el38s from now on.

Thanks for the sales link H1.


----------



## connieflyer

These will make them sing!  They do need lot's of burn in, but will be an upgraded sound right out of the box.


----------



## aqsw

Hey C.F..

I am running quad el38s on the Euforia now, and know all about the long burn in. 

These will be for the Elise, plus two spares. 

The Elise gets very little playing time now that I retired, so I'm thinking I will never have to buy a new valve again, at least
for the Feliks amps.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> I sold my Elise,  before the Euforia ever arrived, so I did not have a direct comparison of the two.  However , even though auditory memory is short lived, I knew from the first turn on with the Euforia, that it was a better sound.  I was not disapointed nor had a thought of well they sound the same, it was a wow, this is a better sound.  Here in the states it is hard to find tube amps to demo, and even harder to find a Feliks Product.  I live in Michigan, and when I inquired from the few audio stores within a few hundred miles, I got the same answer, what is a Feliks amp?  Such  a large area, and so many products competition is high.  Better quality equipment is making a comeback, the millenial folks with the desire for quantity of music on digital equipment that is portable, over quality sound, had been all the rage.  But the better quality music is still fairly strong, and am looking for it to continue. With H's discovery of the El family of tubes for the Feliks amps, auditory pleasure increased significantly.  The balloon tubes sounded the best so far, but are a bit unreliable, but using the El38's as powers, and the EL 11's as drivers has so far been my favorite combo's.  Continues to improve and I believe that H has said they may need more burn in than others, is showing to be true so far.



Hi cf.
Listening to Aaron Coplands brilliant "Billy the Kid" on Euforia at the moment and all I can say is Wow. I'm planning to keep both Euforia and Elise both of which are top rate amps, one will live in my bedroom and the other the lounge. I'm running Sylvania 6SN7WGT drives and EL38's in both amps and very much liking the results. 
Unfortunatly I was unable to get any top notch EL11's, I have several lesser 11's which having tried as drivers don't match what I'm running now. Looks like my much loved Bottlehead Crack is in for a move.
What I have now will be my end game I've already pinched from my retirement saving which was well worth doing as I'm listening to a good 3 hours a day. Money well spent.


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> @hypnos1 and @OctavianH this was these were the first tube amps i've ever properly demo'd and i can see they're a bit of an anomaly compared to auditioning other kit which is largely listened to, then and and after in its stock form, so comment were purely based on what was put in front of me. The most exciting revelation i have is that i am sitting at my desk, at home listening to a Euphoria as i write this. How, well its down to the incredible generosity and other worldly customer service of Jack at the Audiobarn (sole UK stockist), who has lent me their demo unit to use until my new one arrives from Poland. I'm going to have to take all of your words that it can sound better



That's marvellous news, tr...if not unbelievable lol!! Don't know of many hi-fi specialists who'd even consider such a loan...lucky you! . A marvellous opportunity to get accustomed to Euforia's sound before getting adventurous!! ...ENJOY!...


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Just ordered 6x el38 grade ones.
> 
> My Euforia and Elise will both be running el38s from now on.
> 
> Thanks for the sales link H1.



My pleasure aqsw. Glad you were able to get all the tubes you should ever need..._hopefully!_ And you'll be glad to know that as far as I'm concerned, these EL38s are _so_ good that I'm not in the slightest tempted to go looking for any others to experiment with...(is that a deep sigh of relief I hear in multiple quarters lol?!! ...it certainly is from this poor soul!...)....CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

Hi BT, I bought my El 11 Valvo's over a year ago, found them NOS and only used them for about a week before my El 11's that were converted by H and put into storage.  Having a little microphonics with one of the tubes so, waiting for the tape to try from china, pulled out the Valvo's and they are the best combo I have heard now.  I did like the quad El 11 but now prefer this combo.  Tried the El 11 as both drivers and powers with other tubes and prefer them as powers. Tried all my totl 6sn7's and El12 Spez but prefer the El11's for myself.


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> That's marvellous news, tr...if not unbelievable lol!! Don't know of many hi-fi specialists who'd even consider such a loan...lucky you! . A marvellous opportunity to get accustomed to Euforia's sound before getting adventurous!! ...ENJOY!...



thanks, i've been reading too much of this thread while listening to my Euforia and not getting on with an urgent edit today.  Where should a complete novice start when it comes to rolling tubes with Euforia? I have to admit while the temptation to try it is compelling, getting started looks quite daunting, especially as a lot of the tube names/numbers quoted here dont appear to be consistent with those listed as compatible on Felik's site. Is there an idiots guide somewhere, so i dont pull you all back down to my level, or at least a first step you can suggest.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Hi BT, I bought my El 11 Valvo's over a year ago, found them NOS and only used them for about a week before my El 11's that were converted by H and put into storage.  Having a little microphonics with one of the tubes so, waiting for the tape to try from china, pulled out the Valvo's and they are the best combo I have heard now.  I did like the quad El 11 but now prefer this combo.  Tried the El 11 as both drivers and powers with other tubes and prefer them as powers. Tried all my totl 6sn7's and El12 Spez but prefer the El11's for myself.


Just dug all my EL11's out and will give them a go. But I guess at the end of the day we all hear differently.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I sold my Elise,  before the Euforia ever arrived, so I did not have a direct comparison of the two.  However , even though auditory memory is short lived, I knew from the first turn on with the Euforia, that it was a better sound.  I was not disapointed nor had a thought of well they sound the same, it was a wow, this is a better sound.  Here in the states it is hard to find tube amps to demo, and even harder to find a Feliks Product.  I live in Michigan, and when I inquired from the few audio stores within a few hundred miles, I got the same answer, what is a Feliks amp?  Such  a large area, and so many products competition is high.  Better quality equipment is making a comeback, the millenial folks with the desire for quantity of music on digital equipment that is portable, over quality sound, had been all the rage.  But the better quality music is still fairly strong, and am looking for it to continue. With H's discovery of the El family of tubes for the Feliks amps, auditory pleasure increased significantly.  The balloon tubes sounded the best so far, but are a bit unreliable, but using the El38's as powers, and the EL 11's as drivers has so far been my favorite combo's.  Continues to improve and I believe that H has said they may need more burn in than others, is showing to be true so far.



Hi cf...yo, it's a real shame there are so few places within relatively easy reach for demoing different high quality amps - especially tube headphone ones lol! And the same goes for cans themselves...I'd _love_ to be able to do multiple A/Bs in my particular setup, but it just ain't gonna happen alas!  However, my T1s (v1) with replacement cable are singing like I never thought possible, so I'm not _too_ disappointed lol! And this coming Sunday my friend Acapella11 will be bringing his HD800 with fancy cable...am really looking forward to this contest!!! 

Now then y'all, as I sit here _trying_ to write while listening to Euforia (which is a very hard thing to do lol!), a hi-res recording of Brahms's Symphony No 1 is highlighting to me big time why 4x EL38s might just be a bit too heavy in the bass frequencies for some folks. At one time I may well have shied away from the kind of bass that inhabits many sections of this work, but not any more. And this is because my hearing and preferences have been able to readjust to a sound I haven't known, or appreciated, before. But this is also probably due in most part because I now have a setup that can _reproduce_ these frequencies so cleanly, accurately and with exquisite detail that they are no longer _oppressive_. This truly is much closer to the sort of experience one 
would expect from a concert hall with excellent acoustics, and when these lower sounds have most impact.

*But*, in a system that has a darker link anywhere, or hearing that is more sensitive to bass frequencies, I can fully understand that 2x 38s as drivers to 2x as powers might just be too much - and would certainly take much longer to 'adjust' to, if at all possible lol . And so, if this is not actually an option, then drivers with a lighter character will be more appropriate. But I would certainly restate my position on the EL38s as *powers* at least : *nothing comes close, at any price!!* These alone will transform either Euforia or Elise in a way no other tube has vaguely approached IMHO..._bar none!
_
And so, as I continue to hear this Symphony's more treble-oriented tracks still in all their glory, unimpeded by the phenomenal bass section, I simply must stop this diatribe and devote _all_ my attention to this glorious sound...._sorry!_...BFN all...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

Well cf I've given up on the three Telefunkens I have, far too much hissing going on however 2x NOS Adzam are looking like they may have a future in my Euforia. Time will tell.


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> thanks, i've been reading too much of this thread while listening to my Euforia and not getting on with an urgent edit today.  Where should a complete novice start when it comes to rolling tubes with Euforia? I have to admit while the temptation to try it is compelling, getting started looks quite daunting, especially as a lot of the tube names/numbers quoted here dont appear to be consistent with those listed as compatible on Felik's site. Is there an idiots guide somewhere, so i dont pull you all back down to my level, or at least a first step you can suggest.



Hi tr.

Yes indeed, most of the other tube numbers quoted for a long while are not _officially_ approved/recommended by F-A...as is the position of all makers when straying from those actually configured for alas! However, those that have become popular with folks have proved to be _safe_ to use at least, even if not right for all tastes...I personally have always made sure they are indeed safe before confirming my initial results.

As for which to recommend, the only ones I can/will do so without hesitation are the EL38s as powers...as you might well have gathered by now lol! Sources for NOS or good used ones have been posted recently, and the adapters are available from here : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...h=item2f2697fab1:g:jMQAAOSwi3xb9jks:rk:1:pf:0

These tubes may well prove superb as drivers also, but not in all circumstances...my previous post explains why. And if lighter drivers are in fact needed, you may well find the stock PsVanes do the job just fine for you...worth the first try, anyway IMHO. Then, I'm sure there'll be a good few recommendations come in for others...unless you have _plenty _of time to trawl back further through this and Elise threads!! ...BFN...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Well cf I've given up on the three Telefunkens I have, far too much hissing going on however 2x NOS Adzam are looking like they may have a future in my Euforia. Time will tell.



Hi bt....that's a real shame about those TFKs. But they especially did seem to be another temperamental tube...or, rather, that there were/are too many dodgy tubes (TFK version, anyway) out there lol!! . But good condition EL11s are normally an excellent tube...hope you have more luck with your Adzams.... But whatever, you certainly appear to have found a combo that suits you admirably anyway, so not too much to worry about! ...


----------



## triggsviola

Is this normal? There is some pitting and residue between the collar and the glass. It almost looks like some of the base has melted.


----------



## connieflyer

I have seen that on some of the tubes that I've had. It looks like dried glue or some other kind of adhesive. It has never affected any of the tubes that I had.


----------



## triggsviola

connieflyer said:


> I have seen that on some of the tubes that I've had. It looks like dried glue or some other kind of adhesive. It has never affected any of the tubes that I had.



Thanks! I was worried! I'm still a noob to the tube.


----------



## connieflyer

You have to remember also the lot of these tubes are 40 50 60 years old things just happened oh, I look in the mirror and I thought yep it's already happening!


----------



## iamalex

connieflyer said:


> You have to remember also the lot of these tubes are 40 50 60 years old things just happened oh, I look in the mirror and I thought yep it's already happening!


----------



## ZRW0

connieflyer said:


> You have to remember also the lot of these tubes are 40 50 60 years old things just happened oh, I look in the mirror and I thought yep it's already happening!



Hi,

This looks like a Psvane CV181 mk2 that comes with the Euforia, and this is modern tube, produced nowadays. Mine don't present any of this glue issue. I'd contact Lukasz Feliks to report him the problem if it is effectively a tube that was bought with the Euforia.

Erwan


----------



## OctavianH

I have the same impression, and I checked my CV181T2:






I use these for somewhere at 8 months, and the manufacturing date was somewhere in 2017. So these are recent tubes, and mine look normal.


----------



## teknorob23

spot the interloper


----------



## mordy

Peanut butter and jelly.....


----------



## triggsviola

That’s where I got mine! I love those guys!


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> Is this normal? There is some pitting and residue between the collar and the glass. It almost looks like some of the base has melted.



Hi triggs.

Sure does look like an over-zealous application of adhesive lol! And shouldn't actually affect the tube's performance, but wouldn't harm to send the photo to Lukasz for his opinion......


----------



## hypnos1 (Feb 13, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> spot the interloper




Yo tr...I think F-A certainly pulled one out of the hat to get Focal using their amps for demo purposes...well done Lukasz!! 

And can't wait to see the video showing just how those cans perform lol...trouble is I'm a solid fan of _open_ headphones - closed just don't do it for me alas... 

ps. Can't begin to imagine the bass sound with EL38s in the power seat!!!


----------



## teknorob23 (Feb 15, 2019)

A faulty "over excited" stock power tube, has forced (not massively hard) my hand to roll for the first time while i wait for the replacement to arrive from Poland. 

1975 military Mullard 6080 CV2984 from Langrex in Sussex. £30 each and i dont know whether this a good deal or not, but they looked brand new, and after 12 hours run in theres zero noise. I cant give much in terms of compares with the stock tubes SQ-wise until i get the replacements, but i think the bass seems a little fuller.

Does anyone else have experience with these?


----------



## JazzVinyl

teknorob23 said:


> A faulty "over excited" stock power tube, has forced (not massively hard) my hand to roll for the first time while i wait for the replacement to arrive from Poland.
> 
> 1975 military Mullard 6080 CV2984 from Langrex in Sussex. £30 each and i dont know whether this a good deal or not, but they looked brand new, and after 12 hours run in theres zero noise. I cant give much in terms of compares with the stock tubes SQ-wise until i get the replacements, but i think the bass seems a little fuller.
> 
> Does anyone else have experience with these?



Yes, I have long owned a pair, from 1970.

I like them very much, but I do elevate mine via socket savers because the base tends to get quite warm.  
Keeping them up, off the deck to helps stave off the heat they gather.

Rich bass, and luscious midrange!  Good choice!


----------



## teknorob23

JazzVinyl said:


> Yes, I have long owned a pair, from 1970.
> 
> I like them very much, but I do elevate mine via socket savers because the base tends to get quite warm.
> Keeping them up, off the deck to helps stave off the heat they gather.
> ...



thats good to hear, as the choice was more by ever so slightly educated luck than judgement and thank for the tip re socket savers, are the easy to get hold of?


----------



## mordy (Feb 15, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> thats good to hear, as the choice was more by ever so slightly educated luck than judgement and thank for the tip re socket savers, are the easy to get hold of?


Hi t23,
The cheapest source is this one (ask them for a price on two octal socket savers - should be about the same as this offer):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...h=item258b9f0bab:g:2-kAAMXQuTNTLSH-:rk:1:pf:0
These socket savers are not super high quality but will get the job done.
There are other offers but they can be much more expensive. You can also make a best offer and shave off some more from the price.
The socket savers save wear and tear on the amplifier sockets, and act as heat insulators which is a good thing with hot running tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

Problem with socket savers is that you are putting one more connection in the signal path.  I used to use them, put had one go bad on me, no harm done, but was not going to put a cheap piece on my system, with the thousands I have invested in gear, am not going to put it at even a small risk, to save a socket.  Sockets can be adjusted or replaced, so don't see the need.  I was a flight electronics technician in the Navy, and in all the years I worked on tube gear, never had a socket go bad.  This equipment flew for fourteen hours a day for years,  had many tube failures, and with all the replacement of tubes, never had a socket go bad.  Even working in the shop, same thing.  Occaisonaly had to tweak a socket that got loose, no problem at all.  So I don't see the need to put a cheap piece like these in the path. But each person has to decide for themselves.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Your entitled to your opinion, CF...I was not insinuating that the 6080 would cause a socket to go bad.  I was stating the fact that the 6080 base gets very warm and not using the saver more easily transfers that heat into the amp chassis. 

In a blind test,  I wonder if you could really detect a socket savers' presence? 

.


----------



## attmci (Feb 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi t23,
> The cheapest source is this one (ask them for a price on two octal socket savers - should be about the same as this offer):
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...h=item258b9f0bab:g:2-kAAMXQuTNTLSH-:rk:1:pf:0
> These socket savers are not super high quality but will get the job done.
> ...


NP with these.

I can sell you one for $100, if that makes u feel good.



Sorry for posting this in a wrong thread at head-fi.


----------



## Johnnysound (Feb 16, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> A faulty "over excited" stock power tube, has forced (not massively hard) my hand to roll for the first time while i wait for the replacement to arrive from Poland.
> 
> 1975 military Mullard 6080 CV2984 from Langrex in Sussex. £30 each and i dont know whether this a good deal or not, but they looked brand new, and after 12 hours run in theres zero noise. I cant give much in terms of compares with the stock tubes SQ-wise until i get the replacements, but i think the bass seems a little fuller.
> 
> Does anyone else have experience with these?



Yes indeed, I have 2 Mullards 6080 (65’ vintage) and 2 military CV2984 (almost identical) that might be older...both are great tubes that sound just beautiful in Euforia.  I prefer the CV2984s by a small margin.

The power slot of Euforia is _very_ demanding, believe me, and while some “big bottle” 6AS7Gs may sound great at first sight,  I found that good 6080s like the Tung Sols or Chathams are much better in this amp. However, all those sound a bit _raw_  compared to the  Mullards, clearly in another league in terms of refinement and sonic accuracy.  Bass is not as powerful as, say, the Chathams, but the musical presentation is much wider, natural, open and pleasant.  A real threat...and they glow fiery red.

Careful matching with your drivers is mandatory, of course,  and I would suggest the very best...I bet that the Psvanes will work absolutely great.

Tried a lot of 6080s and only one was above the Mullards  in terms of extension (both highs and lows) and overall neutrality, while retaining a good deal of the classic  “midrange magic”:  the NEC 6080. Clear and “ too neutral” at  first, 30/40 hours developed into a terrific tube.  Rare but  cheap, (I paid around $30 for a NOS pair)  if you happen to find a pair for sale  do not hesitate for a second. 

 And yes, I wondered how a Japanese tube from the sixties could sound so splendidly,  until I found that legendary Western Electric owned NEC (Nippon Electric) at the time...since WE never produced this tube in the U.S., my theory is that this IS the real WE 6080. And oh yeah ,also compatible  the WE 421A is the same as the 5998..at $ 350 each


----------



## hypnos1 (Feb 16, 2019)

Hi guys. Sorry if I'm a bit bloated (once again!) with this, but I feel it's a subject that deserves a bit more in-depth coverage...ie. _*socket savers*_...

1. Some tubes do indeed run hotter than others, and can have the amp feeling very warm indeed. Heat is, of course, the enemy of electronic components, but manufacturers take this into account in their designs - _usually! _ True, some (a very few) of F-A's earlier Elises were prone to heat issues and had to be repaired (under warranty), but it would appear this has been addressed since.

The use of heatsinks in Euforia has also remedied such an issue with the very first prototype, and the fact that F-A are happy to offer a _*3 year*_ warranty would indicate to me that they are confident this should not now be an area of concern! If they _did_ have any such worries, I'm also sure they themselves would either make socket savers, or recommend a _good_ supplier....which brings me to the next point :

2. As per @connieflyer 's experience, the quality of such an item is paramount...I personally do not recommend taking this risk - albeit only a possibly small one...especially for the reasons I have mentioned. And _if_ one should be fortunate(?!) enough to live in a very warm climate - without a/c!  - then use of a small, silent fan to draw heat away from the amp is a much better option IMHO....
(With necessary _adapters_ however, the minimal risk is more worth taking...).

3. With regard to socket wear, the ones used in Euforia are of extremely high quality, with the 'solid' type of receptor that will not work loose - unlike the 'segmented' type...or worse!! And thus, once again, socket savers are simply not needed IMO...

4. And as for not affecting the _quality_ of sound, I can only go by my own personal experience in this area. When first testing a non configured for tube - before adapting the base itself - I use my homemade adapter...using a socket with high quality gold-plated copper connectors/pins, and mono-crystal UP-OCC silver and copper wires (ie. much better than any commercial one, I suspect lol!). And even then, the tube definitely performs better after full adapting, and _without_ the intermediary socket...otherwise I wouldn't bother!! 

Whether this would be the case in a system that isn't so highly resolving I can't say, but I'm sure I'm not the only lucky soul here lol!  

5. I suppose the obvious solution to anyone's concerns is to stray from the path and stick with the EL family of tubes...as has been covered here _ad nauseum_ for a very long time now!...(despite needing adapters!!). They have proved not only able to outperform 'conventional' tubes, but run FAR cooler - the amp hardly even getting warm..._win, win...
_
And so hopefully, folks, this gives anyone considering socket savers a bit more info on the whole subject. Then, of course, it's purely one's own decision whether to use them or not...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. I suppose a good option also is to ask F-A's opinion themselves on this subject.......


----------



## connieflyer

If, my comment had nothing to do with heat, the discussion was about socket breaking down. It was about adding something else in the signal path, that may MAY add a degradation in the sound. Also something  to a two thousand dollar amount of unknown construction to the circuit that could fail just to save a couple of degrees to an amp that was designed with the heat build up in mind. Raising the power tube up an inch may lower the temp some on the deck of the amp, but it is still the same distance from the transformer housing and that radiant heat is not going to be disapate  any better.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If, my comment had nothing to do with heat, the discussion was about socket breaking down. It was about adding something else in the signal path, that may MAY add a degradation in the sound. Also something  to a two thousand dollar amount of unknown construction to the circuit that could fail just to save a couple of degrees to an amp that was designed with the heat build up in mind. *Raising the power tube up an inch may lower the temp some on the deck of the amp, but it is still the same distance from the transformer housing and that radiant heat is not going to be dissipated  any better.*



Hi cf....hence the use of a small (silent!) fan could well be the answer for anyone with heat concerns IMO! Also, I recommend the use of additional (large) 'cone' feet under the amp - in hard wood, for example. Not just to aid ventilation, but as excellent further isolation ...


----------



## Scutey

After much deliberation, it's taken me weeks to make up my mind, I've decided life is too short and I have finally ordered a Euforia, so hopefully fairly soon I'll be able to finally understand for myself just how good it really is, can't wait! .


----------



## OctavianH

I am very happy for you, and as expected, I will wait for your 1:1 comparison using the same tubes and so on. And of course, pictures. I have often the same feeling that life is short, so I have done also an addition for my line.


----------



## Scutey

Thanks O. I shall be keeping the Elise for a while, so I will be able to do 1:1, probably starting with the TS 5998/Psavane, as I know it's your favourite, and one of mine too. I've purchased it through Audiobarn, the UK seller for F.A, they told me the wait time is about 3 weeks .


----------



## mordy

Hi CF,
Could you describe how you tighten up a loose socket? What tools would you use?


----------



## connieflyer

Google is your friend


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> After much deliberation, it's taken me weeks to make up my mind, I've decided life is too short and I have finally ordered a Euforia, so hopefully fairly soon I'll be able to finally understand for myself just how good it really is, can't wait! .



WELL DONE Scutey!...and profuse apologies for being one of the guilty parties who've helped raid the kids' inheritance lol!! ...unless there's a budding tube amp enthusiast in the midst!! 

Whatever, you do indeed only live once (don't we?!), so you deserve to spoil yourself...as have a good few of us now.... So it's yet another WELCOME!, mon ami...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> WELL DONE Scutey!...and profuse apologies for being one of the guilty parties who've helped raid the kids' inheritance lol!! ...unless there's a budding tube amp enthusiast in the midst!!
> 
> Whatever, you do indeed only live once (don't we?!), so you deserve to spoil yourself...as have a good few of us now.... So it's yet another WELCOME!, mon ami...CJ


Cheers h1!, no apologies necessary!, the kids have had plenty already, my turn now!, they're going to get plenty when I snuff it anyway, just not for a while yet, hopefully!, and after the purchase of the Euforia a bit less, but I'm not bothered!, and as you rightly say why shouldn't we spoil ourselves eh! , can't wait to get my sticky mitts on it! .


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## hypnos1 (Feb 18, 2019)

Hi guys...just a quick note (or two!) on my A/Bing yesterday between Olli's HD 800s (v1, with upgraded cable) and my T1s (v1, also with upgraded cable). This testing was made all the easier and more accurate by being able to keep_ *both*_ sets of cans plugged in at the same time...mine connected direct to the amp's internal wiring, of course! And I'm glad to say Euforia handled this *with no trouble whatsoever*...and not the slightest hint of distortion or other objection lol!  

What was most interesting/obvious at first listen was the difference being much greater than previously, when using different tubes in Euforia. And so to summarise, I shall list what we both found stood out...in only limited detail, as time was short alas...

1. Much to my surprise, the immediate difference was how much more _forward_ was the Senns' presentation. This gave a more intimate sound to be sure - especially nice for female vocals. However, I personally have come to love the more 'holographic' sound of the T1s, but that still has a sufficiently forward/intimate nature IMHO.

2. Bass/lower mids had a more _solid_ feel in the T1s, giving an overall _richer_ tone...which I personally much preferred. Especially when we tried his Questyle CMA 800 amp, which was _nowhere_ _near _the same in this department compared to the Euforia/EL38 setup, and therefore could never be happy with, myself!

3. Mids in general did however have more detail...partly due to them being 'closer' in their presentation I suspect. But also, of course, because the HD 800s must surely be pretty well the 'King' of details lol ...

4. Treble was much softer through the 800s, and perhaps slightly more _accurate_ as a result. But the T1s' very slightly 'harder' approach brings - for me at least - a bit more 'sparkle' and 'bite', which I again have come to prefer. And which also, of course, helps towards that 'cavernous', spatial imaging...even if it does soften 'focusing' a tad (you can't have it all, alas!).

It's also possible that this difference is partly due to Olli's use of UP-OCC silver wire that has a small amount of gold *inside*, thereby smoothing treble especially. And possibly also helping bring out more mids detail...(might just be tempted to try some myself...the thought of possibly coming somewhere between the two headphones is very appealing...and much cheaper than trying other TOTL cans!! ).

And so, folks, although we had nowhere near enough time to do a full and proper assessment of the differences between these two wonderful headphones..._in my system_...I think we managed to have a fairly good taste of the basic strengths and weaknesses of their performance in Euforia. Both sound tremendous, of course, and at the end of the day it comes down - as always! - simply to personal preference (not to mention any price differential).

For me, the Beyers have it...but then, I've lived with them a long time now, and they're my comfy pair of slippers...warts (small!) and all. Perhaps new top flight ones might just 'better' them - Focal Clear, for example? Who knows...If I could get some on loan, I'd definitely keep an open mind. But for now, I'm still very happy with my Beyers...perhaps with a new cable lol?!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Feb 18, 2019)

Hi again guys...just another quickie..._promise_ this time!!

In the process of checking a pair of RFT EL11s for another newcomer to our midst, I must congratulate @connieflyer for trying the EL11 as driver for the EL38 powers. To put it mildly...*I cannot believe how good this combo is!*...(but should have listened to cf more closely lol! ). It is pretty well a match for my Dario/balloon 38 combo as drivers...if not better! Will have a more definite conclusion once I've lived with my mesh-plated 11s driving my 'super' 38 power combo a while longer yet, but already I'm mightily impressed. The EL11 has _*never*_ sounded this good....even with top flight powers. Which proves once again just how masterful are the EL38s as power tubes...there's simply no contest! This is a combination made in Heaven, and one that could well be end game for _any_ system/ears...especially for us lucky Euforia owners...

ps. OH NO!...have just had a look at ebay.pl (Poland) where I used to see lots of really good used RFT EL11s at a very good price, not to mention reasonably priced NOS tubes, and...NONE! Who's been buying up the EL11 since I plugged it here a while back?..._ain't fair!! . _But I can only recommend you keep your eyes peeled for some...you never know...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


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## OctavianH

These are the ones you are looking for?
https://www.btb-elektronik.de/artikel/523872


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again guys...just another quickie..._promise_ this time!!
> 
> In the process of checking a pair of RFT EL11s for another newcomer to our midst, I must congratulate @connieflyer for trying the EL11 as driver for the EL38 powers. To put it mildly...*I cannot believe how good this combo is!*...(but should have listened to cf more closely lol! ). It is pretty well a match for my Dario/balloon 38 combo as drivers...if not better! Will have a more definite conclusion once I've lived with my mesh-plated 11s driving my 'super' 38 power combo a while longer yet, but already I'm mightily impressed. The EL11 has _*never*_ sounded this good....even with top flight powers. Which proves once again just how masterful are the EL38s as power tubes...there's simply no contest! This is a combination made in Heaven, and one that could well be end game for _any_ system/ears...especially for us lucky Euforia owners...
> 
> ps. OH NO!...have just had a look at ebay.pl (Poland) where I used to see lots of really good used RFT EL11s at a very good price, not to mention reasonably priced NOS tubes, and...NONE! Who's been buying up the EL11 since I plugged it here a while back?..._ain't fair!! . _But I can only recommend you keep your eyes peeled for some...you never know...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


H1 I've been listening to the same combo, Philips balloon coated 38's and NOS TFK EL11 for the last few days and I feel exactly the same, sounds spectacular in the Elise too, and like you, I'm coming to the same conclusion that this could well be end game sound in the Elise, so I can only imagine how good this combo sounds in Euforia, well in the not too distant future I'll be able to find out for myself! . Congrats cf you've found a very special sound! .


----------



## hypnos1 (Feb 18, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> These are the ones you are looking for?
> https://www.btb-elektronik.de/artikel/523872



Hi OH...a very interesting find you have there! And thanks for sharing the info.

To me, it looks more like the Philips (Dutch) stable EL3N (side contact base)  but with the 'German steel' base, as per the 'normal' EL11. The 'true' EL11 was developed by Telefunken, with same specs as the EL3N...the main (obvious) difference however being that the Philips stable EL3N tubes used *oval* plates (anodes), and the Germans *round* plates.

I - and others - found that the EL3N was a much 'darker' tube than the EL11...the latter also with a more balanced/'clearer' presentation, and which most folks preferred. I myself was fortunate enough to find a very rare version that had *mesh* plates - a black glass version of the Valvo EL11, and an Australian Philips EL3N*G*, also with black glass....both with _*oval*_ shaped plates lol! And these came somewhere between the 'normal' EL3N and EL11 in sound. I suspect the tube in your photo will have the oval plate also, rather than the TFK _round_ design...but I might be wrong lol! . So I doubt anyone here, or Elise owners, know in just which camp they reside alas!

And although the 'true' Telefunken (West Germany) EL11 is regarded as the 'best' sounding, the _East_ German RFT version is almost as good IMHO. And there could well be tubes sporting the TFK logo that were _actually_ made in East Germany!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ




Scutey said:


> H1 I've been listening to the same combo, Philips balloon coated 38's and NOS TFK EL11 for the last few days and I feel exactly the same, sounds spectacular in the Elise too, and like you, I'm coming to the same conclusion that this could well be end game sound in the Elise, so I can only imagine how good this combo sounds in Euforia, well in the not too distant future I'll be able to find out for myself! . Congrats cf you've found a very special sound! .



Hi Scutey.

NOS TFKs? With Philips coated 38s?...methinks you've struck gold already lol! . And yes indeed, just you wait 'til you hear that combo in Euforia...I'm sure you'll be lost for words - in total shock!!! ..._be warned!!_ ...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> H1 I've been listening to the same combo, Philips balloon coated 38's and NOS TFK EL11 for the last few days and I feel exactly the same, sounds spectacular in the Elise too, and like you, I'm coming to the same conclusion that this could well be end game sound in the Elise, so I can only imagine how good this combo sounds in Euforia, well in the not too distant future I'll be able to find out for myself! . Congrats cf you've found a very special sound! .



Hi Scutey. Very nice set-up. I've settled for similar in Elise although I had to give up on my balloon EL38's due to a hissing I could not loose. Mine is now running on Adzam EL11 and normal Mullard EL38's as powers (also like EL12's as drivers) For the time being I'm running Euforia on Sylvania 6SN7WGT drivers and Tung Sol 5998 powers a combination I'm finding just to my taste, but still have a few EL38's spare just in case I fancy a change. Hope the post is kind to you.


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## Scutey (Feb 18, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi OH...a very interesting find you have there! And thanks for sharing the info.
> 
> To me, it looks more like the Philips (Dutch) stable EL3N (side contact base)  but with the 'German steel' base, as per the 'normal' EL11. The 'true' EL11 was developed by Telefunken, with same specs as the EL3N...the main (obvious) difference however being that the Philips stable EL3N tubes used *oval* plates (anodes), and the Germans *round* plates.
> 
> ...


Think I was lucky with those TFK EL11's h1, bought them from German eBay about eight months ago, they've spent all this time languishing in a box (until last week!), there was a few ropey ones but they were the only NOS I could  find, fortunately they were exactly as the seller had described, and in pristine condition, think I paid about 60 Euro. Regarding currant EL11 for sale, there are a few used on sale on German eBay but that seems to be about it.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Hi Scutey. Very nice set-up. I've settled for similar in Elise although I had to give up on my balloon EL38's due to a hissing I could not loose. Mine is now running on Adzam EL11 and normal Mullard EL38's as powers (also like EL12's as drivers) For the time being I'm running Euforia on Sylvania 6SN7WGT drivers and Tung Sol 5998 powers a combination I'm finding just to my taste, but still have a few EL38's spare just in case I fancy a change. Hope the post is kind to you.


Hi bt, that's a real pity about those balloon 38's, I guess this is the risk we all run with old tubes, goes with the (tube rolling) territory , never the less those "normal" 38's, as I'm sure you've found still sound very nice. As for the TS 5998 it's still one of my favourite powers, it seems to go well with so many different drivers, also I haven't heard the Sylvania 6SN7WGT, however I have a pair of the Syl 6F8G which has the classic Sylvania sound, they have lovely smooth, non fatiguing highs.


----------



## teknorob23

calling it a review a bit rich when you make a living selling them but ....


----------



## mordy

teknorob23 said:


> calling it a review a bit rich when you make a living selling them but ....



Just listened to this presentation.
1) Crossfeed is not something unique to the Euforia - I had it in a headphone amp 20 years ago.
2) Don't know anybody in the US that had to pay customs duties on the amp when ordered factory direct.
3) Curious why they MUST know if you "were helped by a local Feliks dealer" to order one.
4) The presenter would only say that the amp was made in Europe. If you buy it directly from Poland, the price for Psvane silver is Eur1899.- which is around $2160. Shipping should be well under $100. Upscale audio charges $2599.00.


----------



## teknorob23

mordy said:


> Just listened to this presentation.
> 1) Crossfeed is not something unique to the Euforia - I had it in a headphone amp 20 years ago.
> 2) Don't know anybody in the US that had to pay customs duties on the amp when ordered factory direct.
> 3) Curious why they MUST know if you "were helped by a local Feliks dealer" to order one.
> 4) The presenter would only say that the amp was made in Europe. If you buy it directly from Poland, the price for Psvane silver is Eur1899.- which is around $2160. Shipping should be well under $100. Upscale audio charges $2599.00.



Its one of the few occasions where in the UK we're not paying an inexplicable premium, because Jack at the Audiobarn is selling the Gold version at £1799 versus 1999 Euros + 50ish euros shipping bought direct, which actually makes it a few quid cheaper. Mind you i think it is the Gold version Upscale are selling for $2599 instead of $2,267 + shipping & tax (if there is any)


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## hypnos1 (Feb 20, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> *calling it a review a bit rich when you make a living selling them bu*t ....




Hi tr...and thanks for posting this video.

And true, but hey..._'That's showbiz, folks'!!_ ...however, I personally think it's really nice that he's made such a promo video specifically for Euforia - a welcome change from the usual _written_ 'review' lol . And nice too that he's shown the internal construction so clearly, as well as explaining certain important aspects that don't always get a mention.

As for price, it's no real surprise that there is indeed a price premium (USA) over buying direct from F-A. This is, of course, pretty universal with _anything_ n'est-ce pas? One must surely expect to pay extra for the _convenience_ of buying a product locally - or at least in the same country. And which _usually_ means (especially like here in the UK with good Consumer Rights legislation) a much easier process of resolving any later problems...ie. such as the _supplier_ having to sort them out in the first year especially (as here in the UK at least), rather than the consumer _direct _with the manufacturer. Plus, the option of returning something like a tube amp _with no restocking charge_ is also a very good deal IMHO...you can't buy a Euforia from Amazon, full stop... complete with return option!! And not to mention the fact that a stockist _must_ also make a profit to survive...and rightly so IMO! We live in a world where personal service via independent outlets, as opposed to _im_personal Amazon-style warehouses is fast disappearing...and which I personally find extremely saddening and not a little worrying ...

And so as always, one has to make a choice as to which buying option suits best....CHEERS!...CJ

Edit...ps. Can someone please tell me the point on the video where he says he MUST know a Feliks-Audio dealer's mention so as to order, as per mordy's statement...can't find it lol!!


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys - especially @connieflyer - you might like to hear how things are progressing with my* mesh* *oval* plate, black glass EL11s in the driving seat, and Dario + earlier Philips coated 38s (latter _without_ the ceramic grid post supports).

What can I say?...that oft-used word comes to mind once again - _unbelievable!_ They just might mean not having to spend out on that fancy UP-OCC solid silver _with_ gold wire for my T1s after all..._phew!!_  Why? As suspected - and having been the case in the past - these mesh-plated 11s combine the best of the Philips stable EL3N with that of the German EL11, and thereby bring a little more of the 'softer' treble I mentioned recently when comparing the Senn HD 800 with my slightly 'sharper' T1s. However, luckily - for me! - not _too_ much so, as I now realise for sure that it is this very aspect of the Beyers that I truly love!! And so no need really for anything else to soften the sound any further.

Add on the slightly greater detail from these  EL11s as drivers- especially in the mids - and that's a double bonus. Plus, although there's very slightly less _sub_-bass than from the Dario/Philips combo as drivers, there might also be tad more _detail_ in bass and lower mids. So all in all, count me one _really_ happy bunny...thanks once again cf!! 

One thing this exercise has also confirmed (IMHO) is that although once at a certain (high) level of performance from one's system, different top flight tubes may well bring _smallish_ changes/'improvements' in final sound, these pale into insignificance compared to the differences in overall sound signature between different _headphones!! _My one and only exception to this statement is use of the EL38 as power tubes...I personally have never experienced such a leap in performance between tubes that occupy the same sockets lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## ZRW0

Hello,

I'm still skeptical regarding the 6SN7+EL38 combo some folks here seem to enjoy...
Although it may sound impressive with a relatively sensitive headset (HD800(s)) at relatively low levels, it ends up with high distorsions on my side when the volume knob needs to exceed 10 o'clock (to drive my Kennerton for example, or as preamp of my SS amp).

Waiting for my EL11s and adapters to arrive (I now follow @hypnos1 and @connieflyer almost blindly), and not fully convinced by the EL38 as drivers, I'm currently trying this:


EL12Spez as drivers, and EL38 as powers.

For now, after just a couple of hours of listening, I find this pairing more enjoyable than EL32+EL38, or EL38+EL38.

Has anyone else ever tried this ?

Regards,

Erwan.


----------



## connieflyer

ZRWO I have to agree with you on the use of 6sn7's as drivers,  they do not have the control as the El11's.  I have several totl 6sn7's, as this is where it started. None of them have the sound that the El 11 and El 38 have.  I am done tube rolling, as I really don't believe it is going to get any better than what I am hearing.   I have the rest of the system upgraded, and these tubes have made the biggest change in sound that any of  my tubes have offered.  I was hanging on to the 6sn7's for future use in another amp perhaps, but I am just going to sell off the excess inventory and stick with the El 11 and El 38's.  If and when the silicone tape ever gets here from China,  I will see if that quiets the El 11's that H converted for me last year, one is a mesh plate so looking forward to it.


----------



## mordy (Feb 20, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi tr...and thanks for posting this video.
> 
> And true, but hey..._'That's showbiz, folks'!!_ ...however, I personally think it's really nice that he's made such a promo video specifically for Euforia - a welcome change from the usual _written_ 'review' lol . And nice too that he's shown the internal construction so clearly, as well as explaining certain important aspects that don't always get a mention.
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
It is not in the video, but on their website:
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...ducts/feliks-euforia-2018-headphone-amplifier
You cannot order one without answering this question:
WERE YOU HELPED BY A LOCAL FELIKS DEALER? WE WOULD LOVE TO GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR THE SALE! PLEASE GIVE US THEIR NAME OR TYPE “NO” BELOW
NOTICE: Be sure to tell us if you spoke to a local dealer. Failure to do so will delay processing of your order. We do not ship without this information.

UA also has an interesting policy of refusing to sell certain tubes unless you bought equipment from them......
*POPE 6SN7GT*


*THIS TUBE IS NOW ONLY AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE IF BEING USED IN EQUIPMENT YOU PURCHASED NEW OR DEMO FROM UPSCALE AUDIO.*


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm still skeptical regarding the 6SN7+EL38 combo some folks here seem to enjoy...
> Although it may sound impressive with a relatively sensitive headset (HD800(s)) at relatively low levels, it ends up with high distorsions on my side when the volume knob needs to exceed 10 o'clock (to drive my Kennerton for example, or as preamp of my SS amp
> ...



Hi Erwan. Nice to hear you follow cf and me for advice...but glad you said _almost_ blindly - this hobby definitely adheres to the principle : "different strokes for different folks" lol!! 

Sorry to hear the 6SN7/EL38 combo still gives you problems...no doubt a 'synergy' problem with the rest of your gear.

However, I personally wouldn't recommend mixing 'conventional' tubes with EL pentodes (triode strapped) anyway lol!! ...even if only because I always found that when swapping between these two different types had the amp taking quite a while to readjust before things sounded at all right! And I have always advocated *EL *drivers for *EL *powers......much better synergy.(Plus, DIYers who know their stuff _always _stick to this combination of tubes!).

As for EL12 Spezials driving 38s, I must admit I myself haven't tried that combo...traditionally, these tubes have generally only ever been regarded for use as _powers_. The EL11 has shown itself in the past to excel (in_ our_ amps, anyway!) as a _driver_, and is proving to have wonderful 'synergy' with 38s as powers. But given the latter seem to have unique qualities, who knows what else may turn up?!! . 
As soon as I have a full handle on my own EL11s as drivers, I'll see just how the Spezials sound in comparison. Hopefully your EL11s, and adapters, will arrive soon...(which 11s have you gone for, by the way?). And then you'll be able to give your own impressions of differences...should prove interesting!



connieflyer said:


> ZRWO
> Hi ZRW0.
> 
> I have to agree with you on the use of 6sn7's as drivers,  they do not have the control as the El11's.  I have several totl 6sn7's, as this is where it started. None of them have the sound that the El 11 and El 38 have.  I am done tube rolling, as I really don't believe it is going to get any better than what I am hearing.   I have the rest of the system upgraded, and these tubes have made the biggest change in sound that any of  my tubes have offered.  I was hanging on to the 6sn7's for future use in another amp perhaps, but I am just going to sell off the excess inventory and stick with the El 11 and El 38's.  If and when the silicone tape ever gets here from China,  I will see if that quiets the El 11's that H converted for me last year, one is a mesh plate so looking forward to it.



Hi cf. 

I really hope that mesh plate 11 does indeed behave itself...my 2 just keep on having me shaking my head in disbelief. Their synergy with the EL38 is quite astounding.
Mind you, after replacing my old (NOS) 'balloon' Philips, black plate & coated 38 with the later clear Mullard power for testing purposes, I have to admit that the earlier (but more delicate!) version certainly takes things up yet another notch...so I just hope that your 2 old Mullard 'balloons' also respond well to the tape treatment...fingers and toes crossed for you...

ps. It's a tragic shame that I must have bagged the last remaining (very few!) _mesh_ plated EL11s on the planet, way back when. Have scoured high and low for many months since, and no sign of a single one anywhere. It's looking the same for the early 'balloon' Mullard/Philips EL38s alas......so GOOD LUCK! mon ami...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> It is not in the video, but on their website:
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...ducts/feliks-euforia-2018-headphone-amplifier
> You cannot order one without answering this question:
> ...



Thanks for the headsup mordy.

*But, *it looks like a silly case of a rather misleading/badly worded statement. It appears to me that they only want _*either*_ a dealer's name *or *a "NO" in order to fulfil the order. I tried it, by entering 'NO', and the order went straight to the cart...so presumably that's all one needs to do. Common sense would dictate that *no-one* is going to refuse a sale of this size simply because a potential customer can't/won't give the name of a dealer recommendation?..._*no way, lol!!*_ ...CHEERS!...


----------



## attmci (Feb 20, 2019)

attmci said:


> NP with these.
> 
> I can sell you one for $100, if that makes u feel good.
> 
> ...




OK, I apologize for recommending these socket savers. I just realized the quality of these are NOT good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...h=item258b9f0bab:g:2-kAAMXQuTNTLSH-:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## Scutey

Well I hope this doesn't sound overtly dramatic but I have just had the best audio (headphones/amp/recording) experience of my life!, we've all had them, that familiar recording you've heard dozens of times that's just sounded better than it has ever done, the recording in question was this.
 
In 24 bit 96000 Hz, the tubes in question being TFK EL11/Philips balloon EL38, the best way I can describe it as being "in the zone" and a quite magical experience, I've had a pretty lousy day today, but listening to this just blew it all away, it's moments like this make me realise (if I ever needed too) what a great hobby we have! .


----------



## connieflyer

That tube combination is a real treasure,  and it gets better the longer you run them.  It is interesting, when you get that ahhh moment, when you hear new sounds from familiar recordings and you just kind of wonder how did that happen?  I have had several over the years, but never as many or as in such clarity as I have had with the Euforia and the El 11 and El 38 tubes.  Extremely happy with this setup.  It has saved me a cool $5000.00 as I have been looking at getting the MacIntosh latest headphone amp, have been dragging my feet at the cost, but just love those blue meters! Local store was having a month long sale on everything they sell, and was going to go in, but this is just to good. Would not use the other enough to justify the cost.  Happy with that, now I can use the money for food!


----------



## Scutey

You're absolutely right, those ahh moments seems to happen when you least expect it, and all the more pleasurable for being so, my EL11 only had a about 2 hours on them when tried with the 38's but now have 30 hours on them and are opening up very nicely, the bass although not quite as thunderous as x4 38 is still very punchy with fantastic definition and with better high end extension than the EL3N. As for saving $5000.00 sounds like a lucky escape, I know I would have been like a kid in sweet shop/candy store, sounds like the Euforia is not only a great amp but a decent accountant too! .


----------



## hypnos1

attmci said:


> OK, I apologize for recommending these socket savers. I just realized the quality of these are NOT good.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...h=item258b9f0bab:g:2-kAAMXQuTNTLSH-:rk:1:pf:0



Thanks for that attmci...good to know.

And would repeat that as far as I myself am concerned, these sorts of things should only ever be used* if absolutely necessary, lol!! *


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Well I hope this doesn't sound overtly dramatic but I have just had the best audio (headphones/amp/recording) experience of my life!, we've all had them, that familiar recording you've heard dozens of times that's just sounded better than it has ever done, the recording in question was this.
> 
> In 24 bit 96000 Hz, the tubes in question being TFK EL11/Philips balloon EL38, the best way I can describe it as being "in the zone" and a quite magical experience, I've had a pretty lousy day today, but listening to this just blew it all away, it's moments like this make me realise (if I ever needed too) what a great hobby we have! .



Aaahhh, Scutey...that's precisely what happened to me when I first heard this hi-res version (from HDTracks) a good while ago now. But *doubly* so with the EL38s in place! .

And even more amazing, considering how old the original recording was. Definitely the sort of quality remastering that is far from the norm alas!! ...wonderful!...

And as @connieflyer says, now with this magical EL11/EL38/Euforia combo, there really isn't any need to go searching for something more 'exotic'...with decent ancillary gear, this setup can surely stand up against anything else _vastly_ more expensive lol!!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Feb 22, 2019)

Hi guys...just a quickie on the EL11 tube.

For anyone interested, as @Scutey mentioned a while back, there are a few on ebay.de (German) : https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_fro....TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.XEL11.TRS0&_nkw=EL11&_sacat=0 , but not many I personally would be excited about at present.

There's one remaining Valvo (2 earlier on!) that looks quite nice...with another that has just been added for auction - finishing 3rd March.

I really like the look of a 'Telefunken' with blue logo...stated lower down as Valvo made (but looks pure TFK to me!)...and seems a very good price indeed. The 'Tungsrams' - with red band - don't seem to be so popular with the cognoscenti, along with Tesla versions. I had both these, and they didn't look as well constructed as the TFK/RFT/Valvo, so didn't even bother converting them lol! 

A note on the TFKs : those that have a 'milky' appearance to the coating seem to be more prone to problems, for some reason...and which I myself found, both with the 11 and the 12. A close study of the 'nicer', cleaner grey coating of another TFK, RFT or Valvo will give an idea of what I mean.

But whatever you go for, as there are a few 'dodgy' tubes out there - and as I mentioned previously - if one should display any obvious noises that don't disappear _completely_ after a short while, or a couple of on/offs (assuming the pins are scrupulously clean!), then it is _faulty_ and should be returned as such ASAP.
Regardless of whether there's a time limit on the ebay listing for 'returns' - or none! - you have excellent ebay protection for faulty items, and will back you for refund of cost, plus shipping...no question!! I personally have had to have them step in on several occasions due to recalcitrant sellers, and they resolved in my favour very quickly indeed. Just make sure to inform the seller via ebay messages on all details regarding the problem, and reasonable measures taken to make sure there _is_ indeed a fault...then if the seller tries to be awkward/unreasonable, ebay will probably find the case in your favour without fuss....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Whatever you do, don't fill the pockets of the Italian ebayer trying to charge *87* Euros, plus 15 for shipping for _one_ RFT tube..._outrageous!!_


----------



## attmci

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for that attmci...good to know.
> 
> And would repeat that as far as I myself am concerned, these sorts of things should only ever be used* if absolutely necessary, lol!! *


It's a pain in the asc to replace broken sockets. If someone tube rolling like crazy, he/she definitely needs some. I used it on tube tester, and my amp as well. But you guys are using tube adapters all the time, so I agreed with your suggestions.
I just broke one of these cheap socket protectors the other day. And found the manufacturer of these sockets had used materials like recycled plastic to make the base.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 22, 2019)

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm still skeptical regarding the 6SN7+EL38 combo some folks here seem to enjoy...
> Although it may sound impressive with a relatively sensitive headset (HD800(s)) at relatively low levels, it ends up with high distorsions on my side when the volume knob needs to exceed 10 o'clock (to drive my Kennerton for example, or as preamp of my SS amp).
> ...



Hi Erwan.

As promised, I finally got to try the EL12 Spezials as drivers for my Dario/Philips 'balloon' 38 power combo.

Although one really needs quite a few listening sessions before a full and proper assessment of tube pairing can be made, my countless trials of EL tubes have managed to give me a 'sixth' sense which doesn't normally let me down lol! .

Anyway, first off I must say that the Spez/38 combo (_in my system) _sounds extremely good! They definitely perform better in this particular role than as powers...(and they're one mighty power tube!! ).
However, my initial 'sense' was later confirmed when I eventually changed back to my *mesh *plate EL11/EL3N*G* pairing...ie. that there were a few elements that already didn't quite match up to the latter :

1. The 11(s) give a more _cohesive_ presentation, with a clearer/'cleaner' sound.

 2. Balance between instruments and voice seems more 'accurate'...noticeable especially in a regular test track that although being a relatively 'simple' number - Joni Mitchell's 'A case of You' - is fiendishly difficult to reproduce without the plain guitar backing sounding very (_too)_ 'detached' from her glorious voice. The Spezs just couldn't pull off this trick as well as the 11s.
Having said that, her voice - along with other female singers - was delivered with every bit as much fullness and emotion as the 11s...if not a tiny bit more!! 

3. Soundstage is more expansive in the 11s...with more 'holographic' imagery.

4. Bass sounds deeper in the Spezs, but the 11s show better detail and control...just as they do compared to 38s as drivers. Tonal range also extends further in the 11s - highlighted by strings especially. Guitar, violin and cello have that bit more richness and complexity to their tone...which carries right through with slightly better decay.

These are just the main differences I detected from a few hours' comparison...more complex orchestral, electronic and massed voice music (not to mention _piano_) would have given an even better picture of course, but I didn't honestly think it worthwhile to continue much further with this trial...the outcome - for me - was already easily determined : _my own particular EL11/EL3NG combo outperformed the Spezials by a good margin...and in my system, of course.
_
Given the 'standard' EL11 is very similar indeed to my mesh-plated versions, I do not actually see why the results would be all that much different. And so it will be very interesting to see just what you yourself find with a similar comparison, and in your own system....can't wait lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ

Edit...ps...I must repeat that just as I rated the EL11 in the past above _any_ other tube as driver (in our amps), it is now taken to even greater heights when partnering the EL38 as powers...quite incredible!


----------



## hypnos1

Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own _aahhh_ moments were now relegated to _usual_ listening lol ..._wrong again!! 
_
After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave _too_ much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a _*eureka*_ one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish..._but even more so!!_ And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same..._thankfully! _Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?! 

I wasn't really prepared for this, nor expecting such a bass and mids without having to pay a price elsewhere (especially in higher frequencies and soundstage)...so this was a combination not only of aahh and eureka, but also of slight shock and yet more disbelief......

And so cf and @barontan2418 , I can only hope you manage a miracle and get your old'uns behaving soon...then give these a try with EL11 drivers yourselves!

Just to clarify, these EL38s I'm talking/raving about are the early Philips/Mullard version, with *extra large* glass envelope; _*black coating and black plates*_, but _*without*_ silver band and ceramic grid post insulators. Although the Philips/Darios _with_ silver band and internal coating still perform slightly better than the later _clear_ glass EL38/CV450, the older tubes  have that incredible bass etc that I just described, and that I have *never* before heard come out of headphones lol! ...(of any sort, and from any hp gear).
So keep your eyes peeled for any that might just miraculously appear...but remember that they can be more than usually prone to problems, and that any signs of misbehaving that persevere (as described in past posts, and with caveats) will probably indicate a faulty tube that must be returned as such ASAP, alas .

Anyway guys, I shall finish by wishing y'all continued _aahhh_ moments...not just old(?!) and new to these particular tubes in Euforia, but whichever take your fancy......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own _aahhh_ moments were now relegated to _usual_ listening lol ..._wrong again!!
> _
> After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave _too_ much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
> Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a _*eureka*_ one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish..._but even more so!!_ And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same..._thankfully! _Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?!
> ...


Hi h1/CJ
I've been running in my old balloon 38's in Euforia using EL12N's as drivers until the 4 Valvo's I have on order arrive. I believe the 12N to be s very good tube for the low cost and to me it covers all bases, good soundstage, bass,  and treble with my HD800. Hopefully the Valvo 11's will take it yet one step further..
Elise is running on Adzam EL11 and brown base 38's and also sounding great. It's taken some time but I feel very close to the end game. Thanks all for help and advice on the way.


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## Scutey (Feb 24, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own _aahhh_ moments were now relegated to _usual_ listening lol ..._wrong again!!
> _
> After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave _too_ much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
> Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a _*eureka*_ one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish..._but even more so!!_ And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same..._thankfully! _Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?!
> ...


Good hear h1, seems like you're having a great time with those EL11/EL3NG, I'd just like to say I'm not at all jealous! . Well following on from my ahh moment with Holst's The Planets, like you yesterday I had a WOW with Dire Straits too, this time though with Tunnel of Love, from Making Movies, I was so surprised when the track started I gave a little jump of surprise!, it's so well produced, (pretty much like all DS albums), you can feel the pluck of individual strings on Mark Knopfler's guitar, magic!, these EL11/EL38 are defintely a "pinnacle" combo, just can't wait to try them in my Euforia!.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi h1/CJ
> I've been running in my old balloon 38's in Euforia using EL12N's as drivers until the 4 Valvo's I have on order arrive. I believe the 12N to be s very good tube for the low cost and to me it covers all bases, good soundstage, bass,  and treble with my HD800. Hopefully the Valvo 11's will take it yet one step further..
> Elise is running on Adzam EL11 and brown base 38's and also sounding great. It's taken some time but I feel very close to the end game. Thanks all for help and advice on the way.



Yes bt...the EL12N certainly is extremely good for little money, but does seem to perform differently according to one's system lol . Hopefully you should indeed notice a step up - or two! - with the EL11s in place...but hey, it's not compulsory!! . Hope also your old 38s keep behaving themselves?!

ps. Glad you're  liking the combo in Elise also...



Scutey said:


> Good hear h1, seems like you're having a great time with those EL11/EL3NG, I'd just like to say I'm not at all jealous! . Well following on from my ahh moment with Holst's The Planets, like you yesterday I had a WOW with Dire Straits too, this time though with Tunnel of Love, from Making Movies, I was so surprised when the track started I gave a little jump of surprise!, it's so well produced, (pretty much like all DS albums), you can feel the pluck of individual strings on Mark Knopfler's guitar, magic!, these EL11/EL38 are defintely a "pinnacle" combo, just can't wait to try them in my Euforia!.



Glad you're still having aahhh moments, Scutey...I'm pretty sure there'll be a good few more as you revisit old favourites! . And yes, Mark Knopfler's guitars never sounded so good...this combo can certainly bring out extra magic from electric as well as acoustic instruments. I myself have a newfound extra respect for a lot of 'New Age' electronic music...especially when combined with acoustic - such as Andreas Vollenweider/ Mike Oldfield/Mannheim Steamroller. It responds extremely well to this EL11/38 combo, bringing a wonderful richness to the sound....which will be even greater in Euforia, I assure you!!  .

ps. I shall try once more to seek out more of the black glass, mesh plate Valvo EL11 and Australian Philips EL3N*G*...but must admit I haven't seen any more in over a year now alas!


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> ps. I shall try once more to seek out more of the black glass, mesh plate Valvo EL11 and Australian Philips EL3N*G*...but must admit I haven't seen any more in over a year now alas!


You never know h1, persistence often pays off, although I must admit a year without a sniff is a long time, failing that If we all had positive thoughts, by sheer will some might appear! .


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## Johnnysound (Feb 25, 2019)

Hey, *even *H1 is experimenting again with drivers for the EL38s...interesting.  I am waiting for a new (fancy) silver fuse for Euforia, but in the meantime have had quite a good time rolling pre tubes in my int/power amp, trying to find the best  “sinergy” with the EL38s...and enjoying all types of music.

The 38s are the best powers I have tried in my amp, and that includes (among others)  vintage EL34 Mullards, Siemens, top notch Genalex KT77 reissues, Tung Sol KT150s... all excellent tubes on their own right, but the 38s are something  quite special:  powerful yet relaxed, transparent, revealing, and _extremely_ extended.

What I hear from this power quartet is the sound of a classic British tube of the highest caliber, with the lovely midrange warmth of the EL34, but clearly  superior in the bass, wide open, big, dynamic, and seemingly _unlimited_ in the highs.  Add to this absolutely great 3D qualities...a truly enjoyable, sweet sounding,  eminently musical tube.

Not “neutral” of course,  the sound is definitely on the warm side (as a _proper_  British tube should be !)  but this is nicely balanced by their uncommon ability to sing at the tune of the drivers.  Something I call _sensitivity_  (for lack of a better word) that allows the 38s to reproduce very accurately the sonic signature of the drivers.  Anyway, in my experience you need the very best drivers, not only the ones that sound good, but also able to really _control_ them.

In my very different application the TFKs 12AX7 were very good at that...the 38s sounded  precise, cool, very “_German_” if you want...not exactly my cup of tea, but you got the point.  Some of the best for me (so far) were  balanced, “linear”, accurate drivers with just a touch of warmth...but the book is still certainly open.

My guess is that tubes like the ST EL32 (well burned in, please !) would work nicely as drivers of the EL38s in Euforia...


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## connieflyer

H, just wanted lt let you know, after taping up the offending micro phonic-noisy tubes, I have the EL38 balloon tubes and the El 11 one a mesh plate, now working to perfection.  Seems this silcone tape has helped out in this case, lucked out!


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## mordy

connieflyer said:


> H, just wanted lt let you know, after taping up the offending micro phonic-noisy tubes, I have the EL38 balloon tubes and the El 11 one a mesh plate, now working to perfection.  Seems this silcone tape has helped out in this case, lucked out!


Hi CF,
Glad to hear that the silicone tape fixed your microphonics problem!
I chanced upon this information on a YouTube video (can't even find it now) where somebody fixed problems with metal enclosure tubes and decided to try it on glass envelope tubes with good results.
Also a very cost effective tweak - a little roll of 36" lasts many tubes and costs less than $2 shipped (if you have the patience to wait for a shipment from China).


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## connieflyer

Now that I know the tape worked, I will have to re-apply more tape and make it look nice and neat.  I ordered one from China, ORDER DATE Jan 27, 2019, made it to China customs Feb 2, and still has not cleared their customs.  Very cheap, but got tired of waiting, got one from Amazon.


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## mordy

My experience was that one band of tape was enough and I did not find that applying more tape changed anything. Perhaps two bands will help on a large tube - mainly used it on 6SN7 size tubes.
It is easy enough to apply the tape but a little tricky to make it look nice and even.
Please let us know what your experiences are in applying more tape. I also tried applying tape to the junction of the base and glass together, but I think that applying to somewhere in the middle of the glass envelope worked the best.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> H, just wanted lt let you know, after taping up the offending micro phonic-noisy tubes, I have the EL38 balloon tubes and the El 11 one a mesh plate, now working to perfection.  Seems this silcone tape has helped out in this case, lucked out!



That's fantastic news cf...hope you find this combo as special as I do. But I do realise all ears are different lol! ...

Just a quickie on another note...it's been a _very _tiring and intense day!! - remedying a loose connection in what I thought to be just one channel of my T1s (have wired the replacement cable direct to the drivers' connections..._tricky!!_). And although a couple of the six wires per each earcup had indeed come loose - the bane of using solid wires alas! - it actually turned out not to be the real problem...*both* _*drivers *_were dodgy!!! . And just loitering in the area to resolder was enough to finally *kill* the first one! So out came the driver from my spare set of T1s I bought used just for this eventuality..._thankfully!_

Anyway, realising the same connection problem might be in the offing in the other channel, I popped out the driver and...yep, one wire come loose. Not a problem really, as the other 5 were OK. But blow me down, if the same thing doesn't happen while remedying...*another dead driver!!* . And this was being ultra careful...even to keeping the extension from the driver itself cooled while soldering, just in case. So what on Earth was going on?...Well, all I can say is that I now know what must be one of the main reasons for headphone drivers failing, apart from blowing them lol!! ...especially if this is the norm for said drivers - ie. the tiny wires that come from the driver itself to the shell are *infinitesimally small*. So small you can hardly even see them...and then only with high magnification readers lol! And so fragile that the merest touch will break them in an instant...why?..._crazy!! _No way can they be assured of a good, long life methinks). And what's worse is that in these T1s at least, they are soldered to the extension...*with no proper protection*...ie a disaster waiting to happen!...(as I found to my cost - with one at least!!).

And so to try and make things much more secure for the future, I used epoxy resin not just to encase the new wires' soldering, but also those darn tiny driver wires! . 

Suffice to say that with a great deal of patience, blood, sweat and tears - plus a good dose of luck! -  everything is now working fine once more. And hopefully this time it'll stay that way forever(?!! ).
For anyone interested in the insides of their headphones, a photo of the tiny wires that just might be lurking therein :


 

The offending wires jutting out the top...and the whole driver is only about an inch and a quarter in diameter!! 
I know everything must of necessity be miniaturised, but surely, something a bit more substantial wouldn't go amiss lol?!! ...time for an early night after all this excitement(?!)...BFN...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> That's fantastic news cf...hope you find this combo as special as I do. But I do realise all ears are different lol! ...
> 
> Just a quickie on another note...it's been a _very _tiring and intense day!! - remedying a loose connection in what I thought to be just one channel of my T1s (have wired the replacement cable direct to the drivers' connections..._tricky!!_). And although a couple of the six wires per each earcup had indeed come loose - the bane of using solid wires alas! - it actually turned out not to be the real problem...*both* _*drivers *_were dodgy!!! . And just loitering in the area to resolder was enough to finally *kill* the first one! So out came the driver from my spare set of T1s I bought used just for this eventuality..._thankfully!_
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
I had one driver go out in my T1 from a defective tube. I was very impressed by the US Beyerdynamic Service Repair Center. A new set of drivers cost $250, but they offered to match a used driver to the one that was working. The cost for the used driver was $10 + $40 labor and additional shipping. Everything sounds fine.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 1, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> I had one driver go out in my T1 from a defective tube. I was very impressed by the US Beyerdynamic Service Repair Center. A new set of drivers cost $250, but they offered to match a used driver to the one that was working. The cost for the used driver was $10 + $40 labor and additional shipping. Everything sounds fine.



Hi mordy...a used driver for $10?...that's amazing!! And certainly extremely good service from your Service Repair Center. I doubt we'd get anything near that kind of deal here in the UK alas  (but worth seeking out from somewhere...especially now I know what to look out for when resoldering lol! ).
And at least those miniscule driver wires must surely be gold - not a hint of corrosion or discolouration. No wonder they're so fragile!! . Still wish they were a bit thicker though! 

Anyway y'all, after my somewhat frustrating day yesterday replacing both drivers in my T1s (V1), it has in fact turned out to be a blessing in disguise...they're now delivering an even _better_ sound!!  (and that's before the new solder has burned in). The slight volume imbalance has been rectified (thank goodness!), and even more detail is coming through (both channels). Mostly, no doubt, due to the fact that the wires that came loose were _silver_ ones, thereby making the UP-OCC copper one more dominant. Proof positive of the qualities of UP-OCC silver wire lol!

And so guys, a photo of what must surely now be my end game setup (??!!)...I certainly hope so :



ie. 1x Australian Philips mesh plate, black glass EL3N*G* driver (left) with 1x Valvo mesh plate, black glass EL11 (right); and 2x extra large, black internal coating Philips EL38 powers.

ps. @Johnnysound ...these mesh plate versions are mid-way between the German EL11 and Philips EL3N warmth-wise (and with better detail retrieval than the 3N)...just perfect for my personal taste. I suspect the EL32 might be a tad _too_ warm for many folks when driving the EL38s...CHEERS! everyone...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

As a follow up to my last post, I can confirm that after a day's burn-in of my replacement hp drivers' resoldering (couldn't guarantee complete metal to metal contact first alas, given the need to work _very_ fast in this location lol!), the re-connection of several loose UP-OCC _silver_ wires has proved beyond doubt the superiority of this particular wire...even over UP-OCC copper. 

The extra detail - from top to bottom - is not just minimal...to the point where I've had _hours_ of more _aahhh_ moments today than I've had in a very long while! Soundstage has also opened up even more, but without loss of focus or cohesion. Spatial 'air' is also greater, assisted by delicious _intentional_ reverb that isn't overdone, and an even greater tonal range in voice and instruments than already existed before. I never dreamt that what I've been hearing for a while now could get even better still...and this has definitely cured me of any desire whatsoever to spend out on either different headphones _or_ different hp cable. Never before (almost!) have I been so grateful for something to go wrong with my system...the rewards have been _most_ welcome indeed!! ...BFN...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Has anyone tried/tested the Audeze LCD2 Classic with Euforia?, I only ask as I've decided to buy a pair, at a very good price, by UK standards that is, I would imagine that, with the right tubes, it should be a good fit .


----------



## aqsw

I had them with my Elise. I sold them because I bought some ether C's. Big mistake. The lcds  were really good.


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## Scutey

aqsw said:


> I had them with my Elise. I sold them because I bought some ether C's. Big mistake. The lcds  were really good.


Thanks aqsw, that's encouraging!.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Thanks aqsw, that's encouraging!.


One of my grandsons has the LCD3 - the best bass I have heard on headphones.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Has anyone tried/tested the Audeze LCD2 Classic with Euforia?, I only ask as I've decided to buy a pair, at a very good price, by UK standards that is, I would imagine that, with the right tubes, it should be a good fit .



Hi Scutey.

Hate to be Devil’s advocate here, but when I heard the LCD2 hps with my Elise at our local meet a couple of years ago, they sounded much ‘flatter’/darker than my T1s...and with nowhere near the same sparkle or joie-de-vivre. Olli (Acapella11) found just the same with his HD 800s (v1) via his Questyle CMA 800 SS amp. I do hope they will sound different in your Euforia setup lol! ...or at least appeal to your own tastes...CHEERS!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> One of my grandsons has the LCD3 - the best bass I have heard on headphones.


Thanks mordy, my main reason for buying is for the bass and smoother highs compared to my 1990's, I'm hoping the improved bass of the Euforia will go well with the 2C's bass.


----------



## attmci

Scutey said:


> Has anyone tried/tested the Audeze LCD2 Classic with Euforia?, I only ask as I've decided to buy a pair, at a very good price, by UK standards that is, I would imagine that, with the right tubes, it should be a good fit .


You amp is a single ended OTL tube amp. Do you have a chance to try other amp/dac/headphones in your area? 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/set-vs-otl


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## Scutey

attmci said:


> You amp is a single ended OTL tube amp. Do you have a chance to try other amp/dac/headphones in your area?
> 
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/set-vs-otl


Sadly no, I'm afraid where I live it's an audio gear desert.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Scutey.
> 
> Hate to be Devil’s advocate here, but when I heard the LCD2 hps with my Elise at our local meet a couple of years ago, they sounded much ‘flatter’/darker than my T1s...and with nowhere near the same sparkle or joie-de-vivre. Olli (Acapella11) found just the same with his HD 800s (v1) via his Questyle CMA 800 SS amp. I do hope they will sound different in your Euforia setup lol! ...or at least appeal to your own tastes...CHEERS!


Nothing wrong in playing Devil's advocate h1!,  I  was after another hp to compliment my 1990's, which I still love btw, something a bit more laid back in the highs, but still with good bass dynamics, anyway it they don't fit I won't be too bothered as I picked em up for £480 New, and I'm pretty sure I  can get back at least 95% of what I paid for them.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Nothing wrong in playing Devil's advocate h1!,  I  was after another hp to compliment my 1990's, which I still love btw, something a bit more laid back in the highs, but still with good bass dynamics, anyway it they don't fit I won't be too bothered as I picked em up for £480 New, and I'm pretty sure I  can get back at least 95% of what I paid for them.



Hi again S...those LCDs certainly will give you a different signature to your 1990s lol! . And should give that more 'laid back' presentation . 

At that price, it's pretty well 'try before you buy' territory...so yes indeed, if not quite suitable, I'm sure you wouldn't be much out of pocket (if anything at all!) with a resale. But hopefully they'll do what you're looking for......GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## mordy

"laid back in the highs, good bass dynamics" - this is exactly how the LCD3 sounded to me.


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> "laid back in the highs, good bass dynamics" - this is exactly how the LCD3 sounded to me.


Hopefully my 2c's should be arriving tomorrow, it will be interesting if my experience is similar to yours.


----------



## ZRW0

Hi guys,

I finally received my EL11s and adapters yesterday.

 
And I must admit they are game changers (again!) . They go far beyond the EL32/EL38 EL12Spez/EL38 combos.

The "lack of meat" is definitely gone, soundstage is wide, and dynamics are fully back.

Thanks again !

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I finally received my EL11s and adapters yesterday.
> 
> ...



Great news Erwan...well done! ...(and that's with the straight-sided version - the ST ('coke bottle') versions are supposedly even better still lol ...but good ones are getting harder to find, and more expensive than when I first adapted them a good while ago now alas ).

The synergy between these 11s and the EL38 powers is quite uncanny. Serendipity and @connieflyer 's subsequent decision to try the 11 as driver was indeed a touch of genius...I myself never thought anything could beat the Dario/Philips 'balloon' combo as both driver and power, but the 11/38 recipe is an unexpectedly wonderful creation lol! . WELL DONE cf!! ...

Plus, I'm sure your combo will get even better yet with further burn-in...ENJOY!...


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys...what have we here?!...:

 

Looks rather nice eh? While trying (hard!) to sort out my boxes of tubes, I came across this one I bought on a whim a while back while stocking up on EL38s - ie. an EL3*9*. 

This is supposedly a successor to the 4654 (which I have on the backburner), but looks far better constructed...identical in fact to the Dario EL38, with black glass; black plate; ceramic grid post insulators and gold grid wires....mmmm. 

So I did a bit of research, and most info on this tube seems to be just on French forums. Anyway, the short story (thankfully, I hear you sigh! ) is that it appears to be regarded as even better than its sister EL3*7 *which, in turn, is regarded as better than its other sister (brother?!) our EL3*8*!! How this can be when all 3 look absolutely identical - apart from the later, clear glass 38 (CV450) versions - is beyond me, but these French enthusiasts do seem to know their onions lol!! 

And so it looks like I might not have finished tinkering _just_ yet...oh dear!!...(mind you, from the price of them now, I shall only be trying this lone tube...)...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

You sniffed out another potential gem h1? .


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 4, 2019)

Scutey said:


> You sniffed out another potential gem h1? .



Hi S...quite possible - if the 'French Connection' is accurate in its assessment of the EL37/8/9 lol! 

Trouble is I doubt I can get Euforia sounding much better than she is now...I'm sure any gains wouldn't really match the current prices of this particular tube. So this is going to be just a one-off I'm afraid...and more out of curiosity!! .

ps. Now I have my T1s firing at 110%, what really struck me this afternoon was the clarity of massed instruments' separation/placement...no mean feat when confronted with the 'Battle' track from the music of 'Gladiator'. In this track, Hans Zimmer must have composed one of the most complex and dynamic pieces of film music in his enormous repertoire IMHO. And it needs a highly resolving system - including tubes! - to keep everything well under control. My particular EL11/EL38 combo in Euforia carries out this task a good deal better than any other I have enjoyed to date...and there's no reason why this shouldn't also be the case for any other versions of these tubes ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Good luck with it h1, hope it works out .


----------



## connieflyer

CJ, you promised no more combos!!!!!!!  Cut it out, you are driving me nuts, (although it was not a long drive).  Nice looking tube, checked online and saw the EL50 that is listed as 4654 and it has the paddle feet.  If you go there, not for me.  No more paddle feet, tubes, too much trouble  Keep us informed, even though I won't be going down that path, it is always interesting.  I think I have found the combo that I am happy with, actually two choices that are close to each other. So I think (hope) tube rolling in this amp are done. Of course I have said that in the past, but I am hopeful it will be so.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ, you promised no more combos!!!!!!!  Cut it out, you are driving me nuts, (although it was not a long drive).  Nice looking tube, checked online and saw the EL50 that is listed as 4654 and it has the paddle feet.  If you go there, not for me.  No more paddle feet, tubes, too much trouble  Keep us informed, even though I won't be going down that path, it is always interesting.  I think I have found the combo that I am happy with, actually two choices that are close to each other. So I think (hope) tube rolling in this amp are done. Of course I have said that in the past, but I am hopeful it will be so.



Hi cf.

Fear not mon ami...firstly, I agree with you re. the side contact ('paddle feet') tubes - must be the worst design _ever_ as a tube base lol!! . And secondly, its construction does indeed look like the 4654, which doesn't inspire me one little bit...(hence my 2 are still on the 'backburner'!!). And thirdly, as I mentioned before, no way can the 39 be _that_ much better than our 38s...the oldie 'balloon' and black coated, silver painted versions at least . So I suspect their current cost puts them right out of the frame lol! . Thus, you - and everyone else - can breathe easy methinks ...(just hope my singleton doesn't blow me away...yet again!!!  )....CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

That's good to know.  Thought for a minute I was going to be on another high speed ride!


----------



## teknorob23

Sorry to interrupt, but looking for some advices/suggestions. Having swapped out the  powers for Mullard 6080 CV2984, while i was waiting for Feliks to replace a duff stock tube, I'm now looking for ideas as where to head next. I have the replacement stock tubes and they definitely have more detail and clarity to my ears than he mullards, but lack the bass body which i'd come to enjoy. This leads me to the question is there another power tube i could try which could give me bass mass, but without losing the layering and detail. Or should i be looking at experimenting with the drivers too and or at the same time. Apologies again for going off topic but and advice would be much appreciated Cheers, Rob


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but looking for some advices/suggestions. Having swapped out the  powers for Mullard 6080 CV2984, while i was waiting for Feliks to replace a duff stock tube, I'm now looking for ideas as where to head next. I have the replacement stock tubes and they definitely have more detail and clarity to my ears than he mullards, but lack the bass body which i'd come to enjoy. This leads me to the question is there another power tube i could try which could give me bass mass, but without losing the layering and detail. Or should i be looking at experimenting with the drivers too and or at the same time. Apologies again for going off topic but and advice would be much appreciated Cheers, Rob


Hi TR, apart from the EL38, which is a fabulous power tube when combined with other EL tubes, such as EL11/12/12N, the best power only tube I have is the Tung Sol 5998, it's a belter, warm, yet manages do be both laid back and dynamic all at the same time, has very good bass too, sadly only problem they are quite scarce now and rather expensive but well worth a look for imo.


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Hi TR, apart from the EL38, which is a fabulous power tube when combined with other EL tubes, such as EL11/12/12N, the best power only tube I have is the Tung Sol 5998, it's a belter, warm, yet manages do be both laid back and dynamic all at the same time, has very good bass too, sadly only problem they are quite scarce now and rather expensive but well worth a look for imo.



Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve been looking for some of these and no joy so far. The EL route looks very enticing but i haven’t seen any of the el drivers for sale anywhere either. Thanks again


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 4, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve been looking for some of these and no joy so far. The EL route looks very enticing but i haven’t seen any of the el drivers for sale anywhere either. Thanks again



Hi tr.

I know I'm somewhat biased now (! ), but IMHO there's no combination that can match the EL11/38 combo. I do in fact find I have a couple of TFK/Valvo EL11s to spare, plus a couple of 38s, if you're interested in going along this route. And as you're here in the UK, 'try before you buy' can probably be an option also...just PM me if interested...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Well h1, finally received my 2C's today and so far I can't make them out at all, I guess burn in, both actual and ear burn in are required but so far I think you may well be right about them being flat and dark, and yet they have strange peaks in the treble and a hole in the upper mids, maybe they might sound better with Euforia, but so far I can't recommend them for FA amps, seems you can't beat 1990's and T1's .


----------



## Alson Chua (Mar 5, 2019)

Hi guys,

New owner here, my Euforia has buzzing sound when I pause my music. Is this normal? The buzzing can be heard when volume knob is set to 3 o’clock, its VERY MILD and its almost inaudible.. but its there.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 5, 2019)

Alson Chua said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> New owner here, my Euforia has buzzing sound when I pause my music. Is this normal? The buzzing can be heard when volume knob is set to 3 o’clock, its VERY MILD and its almost inaudible.. but its there.



Hi AC...and welcome to our community. And congrats on getting Euforia.

No, that's not _normal_, but there could be a host of reasons for it alas! And a gradual process of elimination will probably be necessary...ie.

1. Possible interference from the mains electricity supply, or the environment - EMI/RFI etc.
2. Possible - but not likely if a new unit/tubes - dirt on the tube pin/s.
3. Possible less-than-perfect connection of cables/equipment somewhere in the line.
4. Music source/DAC introducing some distortion...no way should you be needing to set the vol knob so high IMHO...especially with the HD650/800s!

If none of these seems to be an obvious cause, you could try changing all the gear downstream...or even the headphones perhaps (unless the noise is there with both sets already)...and see if it remains.

I'm sure I haven't covered all the possible causes, but this could perhaps be a start at least! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## triggsviola

Alson Chua said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> New owner here, my Euforia has buzzing sound when I pause my music. Is this normal? The buzzing can be heard when volume knob is set to 3 o’clock, its VERY MILD and its almost inaudible.. but its there.


My Euforia has some very audible buzzing at around 1 o’clock. Most of the music I listen to doesn’t require me to set the volume that high. It is frustrating for the occasional very quiet classical recording when I can actually hear it while listening to music.


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> *My Euforia has some very audible buzzing at around 1 o’clock.* Most of the music I listen to doesn’t require me to set the volume that high. It is frustrating for the occasional very quiet classical recording when I can actually hear it while listening to music.



Hi triggs.

That's not 'normal' either...something along the lines of what I mentioned just now to @Alson Chua   might well be happening in your case also alas!

Does it happen with a different set of tubes? Can you set up your equipment at a totally different location...preferably with other equipment also, which should then confirm if it's either tube(s) or the amp itself at fault?

And of course, you've made sure the mains power plug is in good and tight lol?!! .

I do hope a cause is found for both of you...if not, then an email to F-A is definitely in order IMHO! ...BFN...CJ


----------



## mordy

*"If they make it, it hums."*
My personal experience is that the Elise and Euforia do hum slightly at very high volume levels (as does another tube amp I have) , but the volume levels are so high that they are unlistenable, and at normal to loud listening levels there is no hum/buzz problem.
For all practical purposes this humming/buzzing does not matter and does not intrude at all at my normal listening levels (between 9-11).
There are zillions of causes for the hum. The most obvious offenders could be portable telephone sets or nearby electrical appliances. Some tube combinations hum less than others - sometimes just switching tubes from right to left can diminish the hum.
The electrical grid itself can introduce hum as well and it sometimes pays off to plug in the power cords into a different outlet.
And there are forum members that are lucky enough to live in a house without any electrical interference problems at all....
But it may take a gigantic effort to completely eliminate it and it is not something that really takes away from the listening pleasure as long as there isn't a real problem with hum at regular volume levels.


----------



## Alson Chua

hypnos1 said:


> Hi AC...and welcome to our community. And congrats on getting Euforia.
> 
> No, that's not _normal_, but there could be a host of reasons for it alas! And a gradual process of elimination will probably be necessary...ie.
> 
> ...



I will try those! I don’t listen at loud volume.. my Euforia is always at 12o’clock and I volume control from my dac3. I just happen to notice when i play with the volume.


----------



## Alson Chua

hypnos1 said:


> Hi AC...and welcome to our community. And congrats on getting Euforia.
> 
> No, that's not _normal_, but there could be a host of reasons for it alas! And a gradual process of elimination will probably be necessary...ie.
> 
> ...



after trying to adjusting the cables the buzzing sound is gone


----------



## hypnos1

Alson Chua said:


> I will try those! I don’t listen at loud volume.. my Euforia is always at 12o’clock and I volume control from my dac3. I just happen to notice when i play with the volume.





Alson Chua said:


> after trying to adjusting the cables the buzzing sound is gone



Great news AC...and very lucky news lol!  Sometimes strange noises can be a nightmare to trace...and mains 'ground hum' one of the most difficult to cure!! I myself had such a hum for a long time with my Elise, and it took a mains regenerator plus my AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains with Advanced Filter System to silence it!! (Thankfully they also brought profound improvements to sound performance...).

But it's surprising how often cables/connections and mains plug connection can be a noise culprit. Also, different line level inputs...if variable, it always pays to experiment with different combos of this and amp volume level....HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23 (Mar 6, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Great news AC...and very lucky news lol!  Sometimes strange noises can be a nightmare to trace...and mains 'ground hum' one of the most difficult to cure!! I myself had such a hum for a long time with my Elise, and it took a mains regenerator plus my AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains with Advanced Filter System to silence it!! (Thankfully they also brought profound improvements to sound performance...).
> 
> But it's surprising how often cables/connections and mains plug connection can be a noise culprit. Also, different line level inputs...if variable, it always pays to experiment with different combos of this and amp volume level....HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ



Just as a mains-power related aside, i've introduced some new power cables into my system replacing the existing supra cables, with MCRU No.75 cable and the one attached the Euforia has had particularly audible effect. The noise floor has darkened noticeably with the result of allowing more micro details through and the whole presentation has a bit more punch and control. They're not silly expensive considering what you can pay costing about £100 for 1.5metre, but if you add up the cost of the components (futuretech sockets at either end would cost £150 if bought separately).  I know as audiophiles we love a diminishing ive found returns returns on this cable are significantly less diminished than with other addition in my 2-channel and heafi set up .

Sorry i should have attached a warning: "possible snake oil contained within" at the beginning of my post


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 6, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Just as a mains-power related aside, i've introduced some new power cables into my system replacing the existing supra cables, with MCRU No.75 cable and the one attached the Euforia has had particularly audible effect. The noise floor has darkened noticeably with the result of allowing more micro details through and the whole presentation has a bit more punch and control. They're not silly expensive considering what you can pay costing about £100 for 1.5metre, but if you add up the cost of the components (futuretech sockets at either end would cost £150 if bought separately).  I know as audiophiles we love a diminishing ive found returns returns on this cable are significantly less diminished than with other addition in my 2-channel and heafi set up .
> 
> Sorry i sured have attached a warning "possible snake oil contain within" at the beginning of my post



Very nice looking cables tr...and as far as I myself am concerned, _not_ 'snake oil' lol!! 

As I've upgraded my system over the years, I have come to appreciate that cables *do* make an undeniable difference...in a _good_ system, and with _good_ ears. Anyone who denies this with _analog_ signal carrying cable I now feel very sad for. Mains power cords may not bring the same _level_ of improvement, but this will depend very much on the _quality_ of mains supply and environmental factors regarding RFI and EMI. The wire(s) used, their configuration and, especially, the _shielding_ will all affect to some degree the quality of electricity supplied to each piece of equipment...even if only due to better isolation from external interference. The same applies to the plugs used, of course! And as you say, this will certainly reduce noise floor, giving a 'blacker' background for more detail to come through and improved spatial presentation.

Before progressing to the mains conditioning I mentioned previously, I personally found these benefits after making my own (long) run of mains cable, using an excellent (massive!) German shielded cable from MCRU and nice Wattgate plugs. I did the same for each piece of equipment and the cumulative results were clear (and further improved when using Neotech's UP-OCC-wire based power cable!). But any gremlins within the mains electricity itself can only be minimised by _good_ conditioning/filtering... but worthwhile results will *not *be achieved 'on the cheap' alas...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Alson Chua

teknorob23 said:


> Just as a mains-power related aside, i've introduced some new power cables into my system replacing the existing supra cables, with MCRU No.75 cable and the one attached the Euforia has had particularly audible effect. The noise floor has darkened noticeably with the result of allowing more micro details through and the whole presentation has a bit more punch and control. They're not silly expensive considering what you can pay costing about £100 for 1.5metre, but if you add up the cost of the components (futuretech sockets at either end would cost £150 if bought separately).  I know as audiophiles we love a diminishing ive found returns returns on this cable are significantly less diminished than with other addition in my 2-channel and heafi set up .
> 
> Sorry i should have attached a warning: "possible snake oil contained within" at the beginning of my post



very nice power cable you got there~! I myself is using Isotek


----------



## mordy

I actually did convince myself that a good quality A/C power cord does make a difference. This one did tighten up the bass.
But spending more than $10 I wouldn't do on a power cable - this 14AWG cable costs around $10:
https://www.amazon.com/Hospital-Gra...+AWG&qid=1551899063&s=electronics&sr=1-1&th=1


----------



## OctavianH

I had the same feeling when I added a power conditioner and plugged the tube amp from it. Now, to upgrade the cable from it to the amp I am not sure it makes sense. What do you think?


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I had the same feeling when I added a power conditioner and plugged the tube amp from it. Now, to upgrade the cable from it to the amp I am not sure it makes sense. What do you think?



Definitely makes sense to add a decent power cable into the chain


----------



## mordy (Mar 6, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Definitely makes sense to add a decent power cable into the chain





OctavianH said:


> I had the same feeling when I added a power conditioner and plugged the tube amp from it. Now, to upgrade the cable from it to the amp I am not sure it makes sense. What do you think?


I actually have a power conditioner that I bought many years ago (Monstercable). It allowed for a blacker background with less electrical interference. And yes, that $10 power cable is plugged into that power conditioner and gave some further improvement.
My advice is to try it, but only at a very moderate cost like $10....
Not this:
https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKPK14G&variation=6
(To me RCA patch cord cables are a can of worms, and I suspect some of them act as tone controls - don't want to go down that rabbit hole.....)


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Definitely makes sense to add a decent power cable into the chain



Agree entirely tr...even if it doesn't bring noticeable benefits to everyone lol!  (_for whatever reason!! )._


----------



## OctavianH (Mar 6, 2019)

In that case I'll need 2 x Male-Male ones because:







So those 2 on the right go to Elise and the CXC and on the left it is its own AC chord fixed with some wire. I expect you are talking about the 2 on the right, in my case. The DAC is plugged in a MCRU LPS which has also an AC chord, but I expect the 5V DC is already fine.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 6, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Well h1, finally received my 2C's today and so far I can't make them out at all, I guess burn in, both actual and ear burn in are required but so far I think you may well be right about them being flat and dark, and yet they have strange peaks in the treble and a hole in the upper mids, maybe they might sound better with Euforia, but so far I can't recommend them for FA amps, seems you can't beat 1990's and T1's .



Hi Scutey...had a feeling you might also find this after the Beyers - totally different sound. It's not often that I make snap judgments on equipment, but just one minute with the LCD2s was _more _than enough for me, I'm afraid...certainly not my own cup of tea lol! . And yes indeed, the T1s especially do seem to be a marriage made in Heaven when plugged into Euforia...and most certainly with the EL11/EL38 combo in place!! 

Speaking of which, since resoldering some of my UP-OCC silver hp wires back into place and using my replacement drivers (from my original cans), I'm not getting _aahhh_ moments now...they're *OMG* ones!! I simply cannot believe the improvement in the T1s' performance....(and it was already superlative before surgery!). I know the UP-OCC silver wire is quite phenomenal, but the extent of the leap has me suspecting that at least one of the old drivers may well have not been running at full 100% anyway. Which makes my loose wires an even bigger blessing in disguise lol .

Whatever, once again it's as though I'm hearing all my favourite tracks anew...I just _love_ this hobby of ours...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## attmci (Mar 6, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Well h1, finally received my 2C's today and so far I can't make them out at all, I guess burn in, both actual and ear burn in are required but so far I think you may well be right about them being flat and dark, and yet they have strange peaks in the treble and a hole in the upper mids, maybe they might sound better with Euforia, but so far I can't recommend them for FA amps, seems you can't beat 1990's and T1's .



Hmm, obvious the 70 ohms LCD-2 is not a good match with the FA OTL amp. Maybe you can try to use 5998 as power, and ECC35 as driver tubes with your new headphone.

Frankly, there are many headphones better than the two quoted here.

I cannot and will never say I already have the best headphones on the market. I am always like to read others unbiased reviews.


----------



## Scutey (Mar 6, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Scutey...had a feeling you might also find this after the Beyers - totally different sound. It's not often that I make snap judgments on equipment, but just one minute with the LCD2s was _more _than enough for me, I'm afraid...certainly not my own cup of tea lol! . And yes indeed, the T1s especially do seem to be a marriage made in Heaven when plugged into Euforia...and most certainly with the EL11/EL38 combo in place!!
> 
> Speaking of which, since resoldering some of my UP-OCC silver hp wires back into place and using my replacement drivers (from my original cans), I'm not getting _aahhh_ moments now...they're *OMG* ones!! I simply cannot believe the improvement in the T1s' performance....(and it was already superlative before surgery!). I know the UP-OCC silver wire is quite phenomenal, but the extent of the leap has me suspecting that at least one of the old drivers may well have not been running at full 100% anyway. Which makes my loose wires an even bigger blessing in disguise lol .
> 
> Whatever, once again it's as though I'm hearing all my favourite tracks anew...I just _love_ this hobby of ours...CHEERS!...CJ


Tbh h1, I came to the same conclusion within a few minutes, although I did persevere for a few hours, more in hope than expectation!, no I think, for me, it's Beyers all the way, they do love tubes, especially, as you rightly say with EL11/38, I've had mine in now more than two weeks, never gone than long without changing tubes before, just itching to try this combo in my Euforia, starting to countdown the days now, hopefully not too long to go!.


----------



## teknorob23

Can I through these in to the mix. After about 150hrs burn in they’re starting to sound like a near perfect match for hugo2/euforia combination


----------



## triggsviola

Wow! Congrats! I blew my money on the Utopia Yggdrasil combo, which I'm very happy with. Someday, when my finances recover, I might get a Stellia. I don't currently own a closed back.


----------



## teknorob23 (Mar 7, 2019)

triggsviola said:


> Wow! Congrats! I blew my money on the Utopia Yggdrasil combo, which I'm very happy with. Someday, when my finances recover, I might get a Stellia. I don't currently own a closed back.



Thank you. I have a senitivity in my right ear to 4-6khz Mark, which means listening at low volumes is my only option, which in turn has meant giving up on opens and going with closed backs as the only viable option. I’ve spent a couple of months torturing my long suffering hifi shop, demo’d Everything in the market, ended up buying the elegias only for focal to announce these 2 weeks later. Fortunatley I was able to squeeze a 20% discount out of them at a show, and I can safely say I have the best cb IMO on the market. They’re amazing. They don’t have the out and out resolution of the utopia which are astonishing headphones, but they are smoother and easier on the ear for long sessions. They’re not as wide either but the stage and tone is incredibly natural and there’s enough room for great layering and seperation. I highly recommend a listen


----------



## barontan2418

Well finally nearing the end of my battle with EL 11/EL 38 tubes and their propensity to Buzz/Hum especially in my Euforia but also in Elise to a lesser degree. Elise is now totally free of noise and Euforia is noise free up to twelve o clock (my listening level) with slight noise thereafter. It has taken me well over a month consisting of numerous cabling checks, kit relocation and tube changes and as I thought all along it appears to be totally down to the tubes. The Euforia is definitely a more discerning amp (or at least mine) when it comes to EL tubes, not so much the EL 38 but definitely the EL 11. With the cost and availability of NOS EL 11’s I’ve had to settle with used tubes and therein probably lies the problem. My last two Valvo’s arrived today and by changing tubes around in both amps I managed to get the results expressed above. When I first got the Euforia I was too quick to judge above the Elise, it’s obviously  several steps above  but that should not take away from just how good the an amp Elise is, especially when using EL tubes. At times I’m not sure which I’m enjoying more, Elise with T1 or Euforia with HD800 but one thing is for sure, I won’t be looking to upgrade tube amps any time soon.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Well finally nearing the end of my battle with EL 11/EL 38 tubes and their propensity to Buzz/Hum especially in my Euforia but also in Elise to a lesser degree. Elise is now totally free of noise and Euforia is noise free up to twelve o clock (my listening level) with slight noise thereafter. It has taken me well over a month consisting of numerous cabling checks, kit relocation and tube changes and as I thought all along it appears to be totally down to the tubes. The Euforia is definitely a more discerning amp (or at least mine) when it comes to EL tubes, not so much the EL 38 but definitely the EL 11. With the cost and availability of NOS EL 11’s I’ve had to settle with used tubes and therein probably lies the problem. My last two Valvo’s arrived today and by changing tubes around in both amps I managed to get the results expressed above. When I first got the Euforia I was too quick to judge above the Elise, it’s obviously  several steps above  but that should not take away from just how good the an amp Elise is, especially when using EL tubes. At times I’m not sure which I’m enjoying more, Elise with T1 or Euforia with HD800 but one thing is for sure, I won’t be looking to upgrade tube amps any time soon.




Hi bt...glad to hear you've finally got things pretty well settled. It can indeed sometimes be a long, arduous - and frustrating! - journey getting there. But the joy at the end soon makes up for the angst..._usually lol!!_ 

And yes, used EL11s can indeed bring more than their fair share of problems...I personally would only ever go for NOS, or near-NOS ones. But, alas, there aren't too many of these about nowadays for 'reasonable' money. But then, some (lesser IMHO) top flight 6SN7s can command even much higher prices! And their worth is now a good deal greater, given how well they perform as drivers to the EL38 powers...better than with any other to date, as far as I'm concerned.

And yes again, as I suspected, this combo does seem to narrow somewhat the gap between Elise and Euforia...but the latter will no doubt _scale_ better as one upgrades the rest of the system .
Here's hoping both your setups continue to behave, and bring you lots more joy in the years to come. I too don't feel the need to go looking at any other amp now...the EL11/38 combo has solidified my admiration and love for Euforia...not to mention how my T1s are now enjoying the marriage even more lol! . And OK...there are obviously cans out there that will do certain things 'better', but there's a definite special _overall_ 'synergy' going on with Elise and Euforia that IMO has them performing to a level beyond the 'norm', and which would need the spending of a great deal of money to surpass it lol!


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## attmci

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...glad to hear you've finally got things pretty well settled. It can indeed sometimes be a long, arduous - and frustrating! - journey getting there. But the joy at the end soon makes up for the angst..._usually lol!!_
> 
> And yes, used EL11s can indeed bring more than their fair share of problems...I personally would only ever go for NOS, or near-NOS ones. But, alas, there aren't too many of these about nowadays for 'reasonable' money. But then, some (lesser IMHO) top flight 6SN7s can command even much higher prices! And their worth is now a good deal greater, given how well they perform as drivers to the EL38 powers...better than with any other to date, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...


Very true. 
*Law of Diminishing Marginal Returns*


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## barontan2418 (Mar 9, 2019)

Just wondered if anybody has tried Tung Sol 5998's with EL11 drivers? I've got that combination in both Elise and Euforia at the moment and I'm really liking this combo. I've read most of the Elise/Euforia threads and don't remember seeing any comments. My reasoning for giving this a shot was I consider EL 11 my best drivers and 5998 my best non EL powers so wondered how they might sound together. Would be interested in any views if only to prove my 67 years old ears are still up to all this tube rolling. Cheers.


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## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Just wondered if anybody has tried Tung Sol 5998's with EL11 drivers? I've got that combination in both Elise and Euforia at the moment and I'm really liking this combo. I've read most of the Elise/Euforia threads and don't remember seeing any comments. My reasoning for giving this a shot was I consider EL 11 my best drivers and 5998 my best non EL powers so wondered how they might sound together. Would be interested in any views if only to prove my 67 years old ears are still up to all this tube rolling. Cheers.


Hi bt, this probably isn't going to be much help, but for awhile early last year I used to switch between TS 5998 and EL3N/EL11, tbh I don't remember too much about the sound, but if my memory serves me right 5998/EL11 was less dark/warm than with the EL3N, very slightly less bass, but better dynamics and better high fr extension, of the two combos I think I preferred the EL11.


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Hi bt, this probably isn't going to be much help, but for awhile early last year I used to switch between TS 5998 and EL3N/EL11, tbh I don't remember too much about the sound, but if my memory serves me right 5998/EL11 was less dark/warm than with the EL3N, very slightly less bass, but better dynamics and better high fr extension, of the two combos I think I preferred the EL11.


Thanks for your reply Scutey. I also spent some time with the EL3N/5998 combo in my early Elise days and agree with your assessment. Dynamics and high frequency extension fits in well with my preferences, excessive bass I don't need. I have been looking to find several tube combinations that suit my tastes and now have at least three, I can now look to thinning out my ever increasing tube collection.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Well now guys, back to one of my non-tube favourite topics - *cables/wire*.

After my recent experience with A11's Neotech OCC silver/gold alloy-equipped replacement cable for his HD800s (v1), I was tempted to try this wire myself...but not in great long lengths lol! I was, however, curious to see if a shorter cable somewhere might just bring some of the Senn's benefits to my system.

And so, in short, I decided to make up another digital coax cable to go from my Naim server/player to the Hugo2 DAC...not expecting much difference, with my current one being made using pure silver (solid) and of a size that can fit straight into the Naim's BNC socket, thereby removing a connecting pin (as - y'all know by now - I try to do whenever possible!).

Anyway, I used a metre of said OCC silver/gold wire (teflon coated), cut into 3 lengths, and 1 equal length of OCC copper, both gauge AWG 26...fortunately, I only need a very short run, which is all the better!

The result?...once again, I was taken by surprise...an _obvious_ difference. Which has proved to me that it's not just an _analog_ signal that can be affected/altered by the cable/wire used, but also a _digital_ signal. And given roughly the same level of shielding to both cables, the difference would therefore appear be down to the _wire_ . Don't really know the reason for this - 'just' 0s and 1s etc. etc.. but the difference is _not_ imaginary/wishful thinking. Most striking is the increased detail in the treble and upper mid frequencies, especially in tracks where these are prominent. Bass is a tad less in _quantity_, but again with a bit more detail. Things may change with further burn-in, but probably not a great deal (?!!)....will keep you posted.

I did in fact make this cable at a fraction of the cost (once again) of anything similar commercially available - if there's even such an animal lol! - using some cat6e coax cable as conduit, after removing all the internal wires. There are 4x lots of 2 spiralled wires, each lot wrapped in its own thick metal foil shielding which, fortunately, remains hollow enough so that you can pass alternative wires down them..._perfect!_ So just right for my own 4 OCC wires. The photo below gives an idea :



ps. The wires seen above are not mine, but those already there!!

Now then, I know this higher level of shielding over my previous cat5 cable could be helping to a certain degree, but I'm sure wouldn't explain such a big difference in final sound delivery (the silver wire passing down the middle of the 'honeycomb' structure in the cat5, surrounded by thick coppered foil as well as metal wire shielding).

And so once again, folks, this just goes to show the precarious nature of recommending any sort of gear - including tubes lol! - when even the _digital_ cable used can have such an effect on the final outcome, let alone all the other myriad variables in any system. One could even say...an almost _impossible_ task lol!!  (but we do try!! )....CHEERS!...CJ


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## triggsviola

hypnos, I can attest to different cables. I was using a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable from computer to Yggy. It sounded great! I then bought a Pangea USB cable. Slightly less bass and more detail. Why? It shouldn't be!


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## hypnos1 (Mar 13, 2019)

triggsviola said:


> hypnos, I can attest to different cables. I was using a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable from computer to Yggy. It sounded great! I then bought a Pangea USB cable. Slightly less bass and more detail. Why? It shouldn't be!



Hi triggs...and perfect timing for such an observation/query lol!!

Why?....because I myself have just had what I regard as another mini-revelation, with interesting (IMHO!) ramifications for digital cables that are so often overlooked when upgrading other cables and system elements.

USB digital transfer of sound is fraught with possible degradation/interference, and usually demands some fancy - and expensive - remedies. Which is one reason why I always prefer_ coax digital_ function.

Anyway, my recent experiment using Neotech's OCC silver/gold alloy wire in my DIY coax cable, as opposed to solid pure silver (_not_ OCC), has finally answered a nagging question I had in my mind after hearing A11's HD800s cabled with said alloy wire...ie. that although it brought more upper mid and treble detail, along with a wider soundstage and smoother overall presentation, I still felt deep down there was a certain something missing. It seemed to me there were some very subtle frequencies not present, and which reduced the 'bite' I prefer in my T1s over the Senns  (that Olli thought might be due to extra 'distortion' from my amp, which is what tubes do, of course!).

*However*, with the aid of now being able to do fast A/Bing of my two coax cables, I discovered that it *is indeed *down more to the *wire(s)* used! And the best indicator turned out to be three male voices - JD Souther's 'The Sad Cafe' & Jimmy Webb's 'P F Sloane' (in hi-res, from HDTracks download '2013 Sampler', which is free and can't recommend too highly that you d/load ASAP!), plus Bob Dylan's wonderful rendition of 'I Cross the Green Mountain' at the end of the music soundtrack from 'Gods and Generals' (which I highly recommend also!).

All these voices - but especially JD Souther's and most of all Bob Dylan's (whom you'd never actually recognise lol! ) - have (or _should_ have!) a certain rough _gravel_ to them which adds a special, unique character. And although the OCC silver/gold wire is deliciously smooth...*that gravel is almost absent!!!* ...whoa!!...As is also indicated in Cassandra Wilson's 'Another Country' from the same sampler...her sexily smoky voice not being quite so _smoky_ lol!

And so, therefore, this would explain the additional slight reduction of subtle tones/overtones in instruments also, thereby minimising the 'bite' I've so come to love...an unfortunate side-effect of delivering such a seductively _smooth_ sound.

The answer? *Hopefully*, by adding some _solid _silver OCC wire to the mix...I _must_ get that gravel back!! (the other benefits of Neotech's OCC silver/gold wire are too good to lose). So it's back to stripping another length of cat6e cable, and the fiddly job of having to terminate one end with a BNC plug for the Naim and a 3.5mm jack at the other for Hugo2...(RCAs are much easier lol!! ).

The final conclusions therefore are that not only *digital* cables are more important in the signal line than many may think/believe, but also that the very wire used can have quite noticeable effects on the final sound. The _degree_ will, obviously, depend very much on the quality of the entire rest of the system - from the mains electricity supply, thru other cables, to headphones - and the resultant level of resolution...not forgetting one's _hearing_, of course! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Will let y'all know if I do in fact manage that almost impossible task of getting _all_ those goodies I crave...gravel included!! ...


----------



## hypnos1

Right then guys....for anyone seriously(!) interested in cables/wire, just a quick (yes!! ) update on my experiment with digital *coax *cables.

After the surprising - and unexpected - results from using just a 35cm run, made with cat6e coax cable and Neotech's mono crystal UP-OCC silver/gold alloy wire _plus _solid copper, I'm happy (nay, _relieved!) _to report that adding 2x lengths of AWG26 solid UP-OCC 'plain' silver to the mix has indeed restored those subtle frequencies I mentioned that were reduced in the alloy wire.

Back is the slightly 'rough, gravel' in certain male voices, and the seductive smoky depth in female voices such as Cassandra Wilson and Mary Fahl (particularly in her number 'Goin' Home' from the soundtrack of 'Gods and Generals'). And fortunately, not at the expense of the wonderful extra detail - especially upper mids and treble - and wider/larger soundstage provided by the silver/gold alloy wire.

I still cannot believe these changes/improvements from using different wire in a *digital* cable (coax at least), and which is all the more attractive as they come courtesy of such a short run, rather than having to spend a fortune on longer IC or headphone cable runs of the alloy wire. I must, however, qualify this by adding that one probably needs OCC solid silver (plus copper, if possible) wire wherever else possible to  gain the most of said benefits, but I suspect this could still help a good deal even if not lol! 

Mind you, if one doesn't have electrical digital coax facility, then the cost will be much greater of course, needing to make up ICs including the alloy wire in question. And I apologise for teasing those who can't make up their own cables, or get someone to do the job for them...I don't know of any manufacturer who actually makes up cables using such a combination of mono crystal wires. And if they did, I dread to think how much they'd cost!! . 

But at least I have proved beyond doubt that paying attention to the digital transfer feeding one's DAC *can and does* make a difference to final performance.  And so these will probably be my last words on this particular topic....HAPPY LISTENING, y'all!...CJ


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## OctavianH

But before the last words, I would like to ask your opinion in the well known coax vs optical war. I currently keep my CXC via a decent optical cable connected to my DAC. I decided to go "optical" because it is, in theory, immune to noise. However, many claim the optical input will never match the coax one on a decently designed DAC. Why? I am curious to know what do you think about that, since you seem to be in the coax team.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 16, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> But before the last words, I would like to ask your opinion in the well known coax vs optical war. I currently keep my CXC via a decent optical cable connected to my DAC. I decided to go "optical" because it is, in theory, immune to noise. However, many claim the optical input will never match the coax one on a decently designed DAC. Why? I am curious to know what do you think about that, since you seem to be in the coax team.



OK, OH...I'm easily drawn back to one of my favourite topics lol! 

As to _why_ the oft-stated 'superiority' of electrical digital transfer compared to optical, the various 'theories' are undoubtedly fuel for debate 'til the end of time. As for optical, I have heard that _possible _degradation of the signal can be caused if the cable is bent _sharply_, as opposed to the use of right-angled mirrors for example (?...). And re. 'noise' with coax cable, I suspect this would only be a real issue if poor shielding is used, coupled with some extremely strong EMI/RFI nearby, or dreadful noise inherited from the mains electricity supply (IMHO).

My own guess is that actually, we still don't know everything about how digital *sound* data transfer behaves compared to other forms of data...and/or how it may be affected in some negative way by extraneous factors. I personally have come to prefer _electrical_ coax because...

a. In the past I have used both coax and optical, and always felt I preferred the former. Unfortunately this was before I honed my analytical assessment knives over the past few years with tube amps and tube rolling.

b. Experienced people I have read over the years often also state such a preference...although equally 'expert' people may prefer optical lol! 

c. I have always admired the quality of Naim Audio equipment, so when deciding on which server/player to go for, I found that their latest UnitiCore model not only had coax digital out, but that it was the *only* option...no optical!! Given the high price and quality factors of Naim gear, I think it's fair to assume why they chose coax!  However, this does mean I can't do strict A/Bing of the two alas...

Anyway, my preference for coax has rocketed since the results of my recent comparison of different wires used in its construction, providing yet another means of tweaking final output performance. But as usual, YMMV lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## OctavianH

Speaking of cables, I found a local manufacturer which was recommended to me by another guy, more exaclty this one:
https://megapteracables.wixsite.com/megapteracables
It seems these are decent cables at a quite good price. I ordered a BNC/RCA to try the coax input of my DAC and 2 power cables. 
I will inform about quality and impressions when receiving them, these are handcrafted so it might take a few days.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Speaking of cables, I found a local manufacturer which was recommended to me by another guy, more exaclty this one:
> https://megapteracables.wixsite.com/megapteracables
> It seems these are decent cables at a quite good price. I ordered a BNC/RCA to try the coax input of my DAC and 2 power cables.
> I will inform about quality and impressions when receiving them, these are handcrafted so it might take a few days.



Hi OH.

They do indeed look nice cables and not overly expensive. Look forward to hearing what you think of them in practice lol! 

I do wish however that some enterprising, more budget-conscious cable people would get a bit more adventurous and start using the wonderful mono crystal OCC - (Dr) Ohno Continuous Cast - wires. In my own experiments, they have definitely proved to be all they say about this type of wire...no exaggerated hype here lol! And as I have also found, I'm sure they could be made commercially at prices far below those aimed at owners of hyper-expensive gear...more modest equipment also benefiting from this wire. Especially as, being single crystal, thinner wire can be used still to great effect, compared to 'ordinary' pure silver and/or copper.

If I were a few years younger I'd be tempted to patent - and make - my latest killer combo cable using Neotech's teflon coated OCC silver/gold alloy wire; OCC silver (solid) and OCC copper, also solid. Bought in wholesale bulk, I'm sure using this wire mix would beat anything in the market costing _far_ more by a _very _long mile!! ...(ps. if such a cable were ever to appear on the market, y'all will know where it originated lol!! )...CHEERS !...CJ


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## teknorob23 (Mar 20, 2019)

A massive thank you to @hypnos1, whose knowledge not to mention craftsmanship has enabled me to join the party and sample the wonders of E38/11combo. I cant share detailed impressions just yet as the E11s are only just installed, but the 38s alone, working with the stock PSVANEs brought a significant improvement over the supplied powers, specifically with the quality of the low end and more general terms by bringing greater depth to the whole presentation. I'll hopefully be able some more useful info on my impression of the whole EL set up very soon


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## Scutey

Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .

ps @teknorob23 great pics! .


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## hypnos1

Hey @teknorob23 ...thanks for your kind words, and those wonderful photos. Hope the EL11s come up to scratch for you...they sounded great when testing in my own system lol . The EL38 powers are pretty well a no-brainer now IMHO...in _our_ amps, at least!!

And I wonder how your Focal Stellias compare to the HD820...did you ever manage to try the Senns? It's tragic you had to give up the Utopias, no?! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .
> 
> ps @teknorob23 great pics! .



Great news from you too, S...I suspect everything else could well be put on hold this coming weekend...(or at least I should certainly _hope_ so lol!!).

Which tubes first? I myself would find it almost impossible not to dive straight into the magical EL11/38 combo, but you must first check the amp is working 100% with the stock tubes of course!  Then the choice will be yours at _some_ time over the weekend I suppose..._hopefully!_ ...(Just don't expect too much sleep for a couple of days!...)...CHEERS!...CJ


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## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .
> 
> ps @teknorob23 great pics! .



Thank you and i had a call from Audiobarn today too, saying my Euforia had arrived. 

Hopefully heading up there tomorrow to pick it up and i'm sure they'll be pleased to get their demo back!


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## Scutey

You're not wrong h1!, I shall be making excuses not to do anything this weekend!, I intend to have lots of quality time with Euforia, and woe betide anyone who tries to stop me! . As for tubes, I will try out stock set up first, but as  you rightly say the EL11/38 combo will be impossible to resist!.


hypnos1 said:


> Great news from you too, S...I suspect everything else could well be put on hold this coming weekend...(or at least I should certainly _hope_ so lol!!).
> 
> Which tubes first? I myself would find it almost impossible not to dive straight into the magical EL11/38 combo, but you must first check the amp is working 100% with the stock tubes of course!  Then the choice will be yours at _some_ time over the weekend I suppose..._hopefully!_ ...(Just don't expect too much sleep for a couple of days!...)...CHEERS!...CJ





teknorob23 said:


> Thank you and i had a call from Audiobarn today too, saying my Euforia had arrived.
> 
> Hopefully heading up there tomorrow to pick it up and i'm sure they'll be pleased to get their demo back!


@teknorob23 , you're Euforia and mine, I guess must have been made at the same time, it'll be interesting to see what numbers they have on the bottom. As for picking up I envy you! , If I lived near by I'd be up like a shot tomorrow!, sadly Plymouth is 250 miles away, so I'll just have to hang on for another 24 hours, if that's possible! .


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## hypnos1 (Mar 21, 2019)

Scutey said:


> You're not wrong h1!, I shall be making excuses not to do anything this weekend!, I intend to have lots of quality time with Euforia, *and woe betide anyone who tries to stop me!  *As for tubes, I will try out stock set up first, but as  you rightly say the EL11/38 combo will be impossible to resist!.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## triggsviola

Pretty often, I get a fairly noticeable rattle when playing a track with heavy bass. Does anybody else have this issue? I thought it might be my Focal Utopias but I tried some other headphones and it was still there. Sometimes it doesn't rattle. Could it be the tubes?


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## DecentLevi (Mar 22, 2019)

It could be anything: headphones or something in them like hair, volume, tube type, tube condition or even bad mastering (original recording). And is the rattle more of a hum, buzz, click, pop, groan, or pulsating low frequencies? If it's still present on another system it's part of the recording. If it's not there with a switch of tubes, it's the tubes. Which section of the song does it occur on and on which channel (R/L?) In this hobby we're a stickler on details so we can pinpoint an exact cause or share something very great, and very specific. The more info. the better, thanks...


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## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> Pretty often, I get a fairly noticeable rattle when playing a track with heavy bass. Does anybody else have this issue? I thought it might be my Focal Utopias but I tried some other headphones and it was still there. Sometimes it doesn't rattle. Could it be the tubes?



Hi triggs.

"Rattle"?....that's a strange one lol! I suspect that if only happening with heavy _bass_, those low frequencies would most probably be causing vibration in something loose in either a transducer (hp driver) or tube internals. As present in cans other than your Utopias - thank goodness!! - it certainly narrows down to possibly a tube(s). This will be easily confirmed by swapping out 1 at a time 'til the culprit is found, of course. If not a tube, then it looks like you'll need to do a real Sherlock Holmes job alas! ...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Of course, if older, then it could be part of the trio,  shake, rattle, and roll!  Sorry, bad morning, needed nonsense, so imparted no wisdom today.


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## connieflyer

Do you hear this rattle when you have the headphones on or off.  If on, it would be difficult to detect if external to phones. I had a small piece of solder come loose on a set of phones years ago, that caused a slight rattle on the driver, but the phones were not expensive, changing out the phones is first stop, if not heard then phones.  If heard, should be able to home in on rattle on with out phones on. See if it is coming from amp, or a something in the room close by.  Good luck


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## teknorob23 (Mar 22, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @teknorob23 ...thanks for your kind words, and those wonderful photos. Hope the EL11s come up to scratch for you...they sounded great when testing in my own system lol . The EL38 powers are pretty well a no-brainer now IMHO...in _our_ amps, at least!!
> 
> And I wonder how your Focal Stellias compare to the HD820...did you ever manage to try the Senns? It's tragic you had to give up the Utopias, no?! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ



Sorry CJ, i missed your post, the EL11's are working a treat thank you and as i had to quickly test the stock tubes before exchanging my borrowed Euforia for my brand new one yesterday, i can attest to how much better the ELs sound.
I had initially and wrongly thought the 38s were making the biggest difference having ran them with the PSVANES and having heard such an immediately obvious improvement re width/depth of stage and bass seperation.
Obvs the E11s are still fairly new to my ears and now they're in a new amp with only 24 hours of run-in, but the difference, while more subtle is equally welcome. Theres a definite more liquid feel to the upper mids/treble, smooth but without losing extension or detail.. quite a feet.

I've got two clear evenings coming up over the weekend, so i'm really looking forward to working through the inner to outer reaches of my music collection.

@Scutey has yours arrived yet?

Oh and @hypnos1 sorry i'm skirting around your enquiry as to whether i tried the HD820s, because i dont want offend anyone in this thread, as i might have done in the stellia and elegia threads, by re-expressing my opinion on them here.

But you did ask, sorry in advance... but yes i have demo'd the 820s twice, and third time yesterday (90 mins with the euforia in the mix) and i dont think they're "right". To my ears they're mid/treble section is disjointed and incoherent. They are extended at the very top, then feel slightly recessed in the lower treble and again in the upper mids. The bass goes low but lacks any impact or dynamism, but then at the same time they do sound detailed with a wider than average stage. I'm still finding it hard to square the circle but i'd have to say at £500 i'd give them the benefit of the doubt but £2k i feel like Sennheiser, advertising dependent reviewers and Senn acolytes are conspiring to gaslighting me... I dont think they're finished and its nothing to do with whether or not i like the signature, its just the fact that they dont sound coherent, that or i am going mad and or have 2 tin ears.... both options are viable 

And for the record i'm a big fan of the 800s.

The Stellia's on the other hand set a new bench mark for closed backs... Very big talk i know! A lot of similarities to the Utopia, not as wide or quite as resolved especially at the top and bottom, but theres a bit more bass quantity and for my tastes are more naturally toned and way less fatiguing.  The level of detail thats coming through across the range is better than anything i've heard... just WOW! and the mids are stand out in this department, guitar music like My Bloody Valentine and Thurston Moore's solo album sounds the best ive ever heard on any type of headphone. The layering and texture is almost there to touch. The best thing about them though is how much room they have in terms of scalability and allowing the other components in my system to really shine through. The Euforia + EL combo sound stunning and i think the Stellia's have got plenty of room to go up further... if of course this is possible . I'd have to spend 10K to get speakers that gave me this much performance, speakers which would then be fighting with my kids and stupid shape of my living room.

You can probably tell i'm a fan, but that said they still cant hold a light in an all comers gunfight with the Meze Empyrean. I spent an hour cleansing myself from the 820s with these via the Euforia yesterday, and gosh if open backs were an option for me, i'd be on these like a shot, credit card in flames and the Stellias wouldn't get a look in!

Sorry that turned into bit of a stream of ranty consciousness/ battle against my dyslexia


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Of course, if older, then it could be part of the trio,  shake, rattle, and roll!  Sorry, bad morning, needed nonsense, so imparted no wisdom today.


Hi CF,
I think it was a wise crack lol......


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry CJ, i missed your post, the EL11's are working a treat thank you and as i had to quickly test the stock tubes before exchanging my borrowed Euforia for my brand new one yesterday, i can attest to how much better the ELs sound.
> I had initially and wrongly thought the 38s were making the biggest difference having ran them with the PSVANES and having heard such an immediately obvious improvement re width/depth of stage and bass seperation.
> Obvs the E11s are still fairly new to my ears and now they're in a new amp with only 24 hours of run-in, but the difference, while more subtle is equally welcome. Theres a definite more liquid feel to the upper mids/treble, smooth but without losing extension or detail.. quite a feet.
> 
> ...



Hi trob...glad I'm not the only one who can 'rant' lol! 

But first, let me say I'm glad you too are already liking the EL11s with the 38s. And the more different favourite tracks you hear, the more you will discover just what this combo can do, I'm sure .
Now on to that other fascinating topic...headphones! Many thanks for your detailed reply...much appreciated. And _never_ worry about what others may think about your own particular findings/impressions. I'm quite sure your comments would never approach the _way_ OTT level that could rightfully attract derision lol! 
Re. the HD820s, I myself always had nagging doubts about them, and when I read reports that no way were they even the equal of the 800s soundwise, the price - as you intimate - is the real killer IMHO (despite the other advantages of being 'closed').

So I stick with the T1s..._*However...*_your enthusiastic report on the Meze Empyreans has certainly piqued my interest. Especially as they are obviously driven well by Euforia, despite being very low impedance cans...reinforcing a review of them by someone who was first mightily impressed by them when heard driven by a..._*EUFORIA!!*_ (so that now makes Meze happy to partner hi-end cans with our amp, along with ZMF and Focal...another nice feather in the cap for Feliks-Audio! ). Anyway, all I need now is to try and find someone who's happy to let me try a pair of Empyreans in my home setup...would love to see how they sound compared to my T1s with 'super' replacement cable... 

ps. Methinks you're in for an interesting - nay, _exciting _weekend. Look forward to your upcoming impressions lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

trob, thank you for your review of the 820's, very interesting comparison.  I have not heard them, but prefer open anyways,  so they would be a non starter, especially with what Senn is charging for them.  I have the Senn 800 and like them quite well.  I see you have tried them as well, do you have any comparison to the Meze Empyreans?  From what you are saying this might be an area for to try.  Would like to find a dealer for them to have a listen, at that price point, need a lot more info and would like to hear for myself.  They do sound very interesting though.  Glad you are enjoying the El11, EL 38 combo, it is my favorite of all that I have tried. Happy listening!


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> @Scutey has yours arrived yet?


Hi trob, yes Euforia arrived today, just as I was going out, another 30 seconds and I would have missed it, phew!. Just past the 2 hour burn in mark, only had about 1 hour listening, far too early to draw any conclusions, need a day or two to get my head around what I'm hearing, however so far so good! 

 
On another note, picked up these about an hour ago off you know where, not seen this EL38 type before, note no ceramic spacers.


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Hi trob, yes Euforia arrived today, just as I was going out, another 30 seconds and I would have missed it, phew!. Just past the 2 hour burn in mark, only had about 1 hour listening, far too early to draw any conclusions, need a day or two to get my head around what I'm hearing, however so far so good!
> 
> On another note, picked up these about an hour ago off you know where, not seen this EL38 type before, note no ceramic spacers.



Looking good mines been running for about 30 hours. Sounded a bit dull and closed new out of the box, but had opened up and was pretty close to its predecessor by 24 hours and sounding good now, but i expect things will improve further over the next 100 hours or so. Congrats though and now the really fun bit starts!


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob...glad I'm not the only one who can 'rant' lol!
> 
> But first, let me say I'm glad you too are already liking the EL11s with the 38s. And the more different favourite tracks you hear, the more you will discover just what this combo can do, I'm sure .
> Now on to that other fascinating topic...headphones! Many thanks for your detailed reply...much appreciated. And _never_ worry about what others may think about your own particular findings/impressions. I'm quite sure your comments would never approach the _way_ OTT level that could rightfully attract derision lol!
> ...



My T1's havent had much of look in since the Stellia's arrived, but i still love them and wont be letting them go.. at least not yet, but the empyrean's are on another level as are the LCD4z's (my last dalliance with open backs), which while being best part of £1000 more expensive can't hold a light to the meze either. I'm pretty sure Jack at Audiobarn would arrange for home demo as would the guys at Unilet AKA audio sanctuary. Failing that i think SCV are the distributors for Meze and Focal would get something sorted for you. Be warned though, theres a real risk you'll need to buy them if once youve heard them, i'd be willing to put money on it!!

My New euforia is warming up nicely and as i type i'm listening to Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures 192/24 file and martin hannett's peerless production, full of contradiction is really stretching the EL brother's legs. The recording has an incredible sparseness yet rich, distant and simultaneously intimate. Peter Hook's baselines sound propulsive and layered, 10 perfect bubbles containing 10 equally perfect songs... all this and i havent even had a glass of wine


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> Looking good mines been running for about 30 hours. Sounded a bit dull and closed new out of the box, but had opened up and was pretty close to its predecessor by 24 hours and sounding good now, but i expect things will improve further over the next 100 hours or so. Congrats though and now the really fun bit starts!


Cheers trob, interesting you said it was a bit dull out of the box, that was exactly my thoughts, my very first impression (admittedly after just 2 minutes!) was my Elise sounded better!, however it's improving already, after just 4 hours, opening up, I would say, compared to Elise the mids are fuller, weightier, more presence, bass is fuller too, and highs are airier, extend more, that was just using TS 5998 and Psvane CV 181 T mkII, anyway, time for the big guns methinks, ie EL11/38 .

I see you've managed to get plenty burn in already on your Euforia, sounds like you're really enjoying it, as you say there's lots of fun to be had especially if you like tube rolling!.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 23, 2019)

Aaahhh @Scutey and @teknorob23 ...you're both discovering Euforia's secret methinks - ie. the magical way in which she continues to improve/scale not only with plenty more hours yet on her herself, but with everything else that 'matures' in the system...and not just tubes lol .

Also to be taken into account of course is our hearing. I must admit that to my mind, this aspect of brain function - ie. the time it takes for it to readjust to a different sound presentation, is fast becoming a _much_ more important and relevant factor than is usually appreciated, despite the occasional mention of 'brain burn-in'.

In becoming familiar - and _comfortable_ - with a particular mix of sounds, it seems inclined at first to almost _ignore _new, unfamiliar ones, unless too obvious to miss lol!...such as bass and treble extremes. The more subtle changes take a good bit longer before being 'recognised' and _accepted_...the new 'norm', if you like. Only then does true _appreciation_ set in IMHO . For me, this has often taken a very long time indeed, and with _anything_ new to the system...but perhaps tubes especially, of course! 

And so folks, once again that wonderful necessity of _time_ comes to the fore - especially with our tube amps lol!! ....HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ps @Scutey ...those EL38s you showed just now are certainly new to me. Never seen any like that before. Should prove very interesting to see just how they compare to the 'pretty' ones lol .

Well folks, it's about time for an update on F-A's upcoming new flagship 2A3-based goliath : Lukasz has just confirmed what I suspected - ie. progress slowed down by unforeseen obstacles, namely implementing the Stax output function within the same chassis. But understandably, they want to iron out any possible conflicts well before introducing to the market...or a prototype for review at least!...sensible IMHO...even if a little frustrating . Something like this all-singing and dancing (probable) masterpiece has simply got to be perfect, given it won't be cheap!!! 

And I'm glad they have taken note of my suggestion to use mono crystal UP-OCC wire in this beauty...presumably their testing of it garnered approval  ...(and which I never doubted for a moment lol!).

There's also some interesting news of another project soon to be unveiled, but which I can't reveal just at this moment...so stay tuned!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> There's also some interesting news of another project soon to be unveiled, but which I can't reveal just at this moment...so stay tuned!! ...CHEERS!...CJ



Interesting times here on the thread. You can, at least, tell us if the new project is headphone related, because if not, I would not be very interested in it.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Interesting times here on the thread. You can, at least, tell us if the new project is headphone related, because if not, I would not be very interested in it.



OK, OH...you seem quite adept at teasing that bit extra out of me lol!! ...so...ssshhh... a clue : 'Special Anniversary Edition'...and that's it for now ...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> ps @Scutey ...those EL38s you showed just now are certainly new to me. Never seen any like that before. Should prove very interesting to see just how they compare to the 'pretty' ones lol





hypnos1 said:


> OK, OH...you seem quite adept at teasing that bit extra out of me lol!! ...so...ssshhh... a clue : 'Special Anniversary Edition'...and that's it for now ...CJ


Yes I've not seen them before either, seem quite different to the others, I was just doing one of my regular searches and they came up, from a french seller so i'm assuming that's where they were made, and as you say they are certainly no looker, but if they sound good, I'll be happy for them ugly ducklings!.

ps as for the titbit of info on the F.A flagship, you realy are a tease! .

pps, The unit no for my Euforia is 101, finally hit three figures! .


----------



## mordy

I have both the Elise and the Euforia and have compared them - the Euforia has more of everything. The Elise sounds leaner and the Euforia more fleshed out.
Based on my experience you may need around 150 hours until the Euforia is fully burned in.


----------



## teknorob23

mordy said:


> I have both the Elise and the Euforia and have compared them - the Euforia has more of everything. The Elise sounds leaner and the Euforia more fleshed out.
> Based on my experience you may need around 150 hours until the Euforia is fully burned in.



I can concur on both points. My new euforia has been playing since it arrived, so it on about 65 hours. Not quite as lucid and the seperation is quite the old one was, but it showed a marked improvement at 24hrs. Still thoroughly addictive listening, i managed 1-4 zepplin albums back to back last night having not listened to any for 10+ years. What the hugo2/euforia/el38/stellias do with guitars is something else


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yes I've not seen them before either, seem quite different to the others, I was just doing one of my regular searches and they came up, from a french seller so i'm assuming that's where they were made, and as you say they are certainly no looker, but if they sound good, I'll be happy for them ugly ducklings!.
> 
> ps as for the titbit of info on the F.A flagship, you realy are a tease! .
> 
> pps, The unit no for my Euforia is 101, finally hit three figures! .



Yo S...looking forward to how those strange EL38s sound. Would never have said they were 38s if it wasn't written on the label lol!! 

101+ Euforias?...even better than I ever thought!! ...Well done F-A...

ps. Just to avoid any possible confusion(?!), the 'Special Anniversary Edition' isn't re. the new flagship lol ...





teknorob23 said:


> I can concur on both points. My new euforia has been playing since it arrived, so it on about 65 hours. Not quite as lucid and the seperation is quite the old one was, but it showed a marked improvement at 24hrs. Still thoroughly addictive listening, i managed 1-4 zepplin albums back to back last night having not listened to any for 10+ years. What the hugo2/euforia/el38/stellias do with guitars is something else



Hi trob. 

Yes indeed, guitars (in my case, steel acoustic especially)) - amongst other things! - sound absolutely delicious with that combo...even with T1s as opposed to your Focals!

And as @mordy says, 150 hrs (if not more!) should fill out any gaps that may appear to be missing at the moment. But if you want to experience _really_ incredible separation/placement, 'just' try to introduce somewhere in the system some of that Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold alloy wire!! After a week's burn-in, even just in a short (30cm) length of digital coax, the difference still confounds me lol . However, of course, Euforia's more 'fleshed out' delivery will always alter other aspects of sound presentation compared to Elise .

ps. I shall take your advice and see if any of those Meze distributors will let me do home demo on the Empyreans...but be prepared to incur the wrath of 'She who must be obeyed' if I fall in love with 'em!!! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Yo S...looking forward to how those strange EL38s sound. Would never have said they were 38s if it wasn't written on the label lol!!
> 
> 101+ Euforias?...even better than I ever thought!! ...Well done F-A...
> 
> ps. Just to avoid any possible confusion(?!), the 'Special Anniversary Edition' isn't re. the new flagship lol ...


Yes I had to do a double take on those tubes too, they are definitely different construction, anyway, I shall do a review when they turn up.


mordy said:


> I have both the Elise and the Euforia and have compared them - the Euforia has more of everything. The Elise sounds leaner and the Euforia more fleshed out.
> Based on my experience you may need around 150 hours until the Euforia is fully burned in.





teknorob23 said:


> I can concur on both points. My new euforia has been playing since it arrived, so it on about 65 hours. Not quite as lucid and the seperation is quite the old one was, but it showed a marked improvement at 24hrs. Still thoroughly addictive listening, i managed 1-4 zepplin albums back to back last night having not listened to any for 10+ years. What the hugo2/euforia/el38/stellias do with guitars is something else


That was my thought too on hearing Euforia for the first time too, last evevning I couldn't resist doing a brief comparison of both amps using  Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, the difference between the two amps is quite startling, Euforia has a much meatier presentation, especially in the mids.

Trob you're way ahead of me in burn in, I'm only at 14 hours, are you leaving your amp running continuously with hp's plugged in?.

ps Led Zep vol 1-4 some of my all time fave albums, love em! .


----------



## connieflyer

technorob23 as far as burning in, I would not leave the amp on 23-7.  What CJ and I recommend is cycling it on and off.  Letting it run for about 8 hours and shutting down for at least an hour. This is how I burned mine in, and have a very stable platform.  The amp does build up heat over a period of time, and while it "probably" would not be a problem, heat is the enemy of the electronic components.  A little slower build up of on time, but you are going to be using this amp for a long time and want it to last. The other thing of course, is "if" it did overheat in the middle of the night, would not be a good outcome for surrounding area, or amp. Arriving at a particular amount of burn in is not the goal.  Enjoying the results of it is what you want to hear. It may take your amp a little longer or perhaps less.  But then you also have to consider the tubes you use. I used some tubes that I knew I would not be using as my main tubes, downside is once I found the tubes I wanted, still had to burn them in for a period of time.  The El's take a goodly amount of time to reach their best, so your amp is going to get more burn in then.  Good luck.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @Scutey , @teknorob23 ...and anyone else who may have missed our past recommendations...I can only reinforce what @connieflyer has said re. burning in of equipment - ie

1. *Never* leave the house with a tube amp running! Although only very small, the risk of either a tube blowing, or a component in the amp 'frying', is simply not worth taking lol .

2. The concensus for burning in time -with headphones attached - is between 5 to 8 hrs playing, then an hour or so cool off.

I would also add a reminder to _always _turn the volume down to zero before switching off the amp.

Plus, best to let the tubes warm up for a minute or so before turning up the volume.

Not to mention that even though _always_ handling tubes by their base (which you've secured to the glass with more glue, of course!).... if tight in an adapter for example, don't work too hard at pulling to remove it...especially big *old* tubes. Use a strong, small blade or flat-ended screwdriver to gradually work around the bottom of the base, prising it up a little as you go. I myself found this almost essential with the socket I used for my EL11/12 test adapter...._Be careful out there, guys!!_ ...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

@connieflyer and @hypnos1, as total tube newbie all advice very welcome thank you


----------



## Scutey

Hi h1, that's exactly what I've been doing, 6/8 hours, then a cool off, I always err on the side of caution, however it's always good to have confirmation though .

On another note, Euforia seems to be far less forgiving with tubes and of recordings, anything that's old, and or poorly recorded/mixed is ruthlessly exposed by this amp.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, that's exactly what I've been doing, 6/8 hours, then a cool off, I always err on the side of caution, however it's always good to have confirmation though .
> 
> On another note, Euforia seems to be far less forgiving with tubes and of recordings, anything that's old, and or poorly recorded/mixed is ruthlessly exposed by this amp.


I think that the sound will become more beautiful and forgiving as the amp burns in. BTW, are the tubes new as well?


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 25, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, that's exactly what I've been doing, 6/8 hours, then a cool off, I always err on the side of caution, however it's always good to have confirmation though .
> 
> On another note, Euforia seems to be far less forgiving with tubes and of recordings, anything that's old, and or poorly recorded/mixed is ruthlessly exposed by this amp.



Hi S.

As an extension to what @mordy said, I must say that my own system has gone through various Jekyll and Hyde stages in this regard...both interesting and perplexing lol!

Its highly resolving nature can indeed be both a blessing _and_ a curse...it will indeed shine a blinding light on poorly engineered/recorded material, while revelling in that produced by those who know what they're doing lol! ...*and yet,* I have spun very old recordings that I expected to sound awful through cans - such as Peter, Paul and Mary tracks - and been amazed at just how good they were (making allowance for stereo imaging, of course!). And some that didn't sound too good at first, do seem to have been handled more 'flatteringly' as the amp - plus tubes and cables - have matured... (perhaps brain adaptation also lol?!! ).

Fortunately, I myself now have very few favourite pieces of music that allowances can't be made for...the rest _more_ than make up for them!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S.
> 
> As an extension to what @mordy said, I must say that my own system has gone through various Jekyll and Hyde stages in this regard...both interesting and perplexing lol!
> 
> ...



Yes it's weird i'm not finding the Euphoria if anything slightly more sympathetic than for example listening to the Hugo direct. The fact that it brings a bit more body weight, depth and texture to the music is actually helping, especially when listening to early nineties indie albums, like MBV Loveless, Teenage Fanclub and the like, A lot of the production was a bit a thin, but I'm find the euphoria has had me rattling through these albums afresh and enjoying them from a production POV in the same way i am contemporary recordings. I guess this is also influenced by the other components in your listening set-up and whether the Euphoria is following the tonal/ performance trend of your system, or whether its out performing or going in a different direction. Just a thought


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Yes it's weird i'm not finding the Euphoria if anything slightly more sympathetic than for example listening to the Hugo direct. The fact that it brings a bit more body weight, depth and texture to the music is actually helping, especially when listening to early nineties indie albums, like MBV Loveless, Teenage Fanclub and the like, A lot of the production was a bit a thin, but I'm find the euphoria has had me rattling through these albums afresh and enjoying them from a production POV in the same way i am contemporary recordings. I guess this is also influenced by the other components in your listening set-up and* whether the Euphoria is following the tonal/ performance trend of your system, or whether its out* *performing or going in a different direction. *Just a thought



Hi trob.

Yes indeed...you raise a very good question about just *what* is happening *where* within the entire sound reproduction chain...in my own case recently for example, just why should there have been such a difference simply by adding a short length of that silver/gold alloy wire to my digital coax cable? What synergy _precisely_ is going on with Euforia...was it simply _following_, by responding to different frequencies/cues transmitted by the wire as a result of its _potential_?...(most likely IMHO). Or is something else going on? Perhaps it's dependent on interaction with _other _elements in the system also? And then there's the conundrum of others not necessarily finding the same results!! ...
 I'm sure this whole subject of _synergy _is far more complex than we ever realise lol! 

ps. Glad you too find that Euforia _improves_ - not just _changes_ - Hugo2's direct sound out...even though Bob Watts may not agree!!


----------



## hypnos1

Guys...more and more great reviews of Euforia keep popping up, which is very encouraging. Just thought you might be interested in this one, with Euforia being used as one of the amps to partner a review of the Meze Empyrean headphones (which are tempting me more by the day @teknorob23 !! )...CHEERS!...CJ  : https://www.headfonia.com/review-meze-audio-empyrean/4/


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Guys...more and more great reviews of Euforia keep popping up, which is very encouraging. Just thought you might be interested in this one, with Euforia being used as one of the amps to partner a review of the Meze Empyrean headphones (which are tempting me more by the day @teknorob23 !! )...CHEERS!...CJ  : https://www.headfonia.com/review-meze-audio-empyrean/4/



Sounds like you’re in trouble and you haven’t even heard them yet!!


----------



## connieflyer (Mar 25, 2019)

Hi CJ, I read that last week, as well as several others, and I must admit, I am tempted as well. There are some here on Headfi for sale,  I considered one in particular, but it was the gold tone, and I don't like that one at all. Reading the reviews, they may be bringing out limited editions with a few different colors to the aluminum grills. Short  runs to be sure, but I do prefer the black.  I am in search of someone, or a dealer here in the States that may have one I could demo.  At $3 grand, don't want to risk it. "YET"

https://headfonics.com/2019/01/meze-empyrean-first-contact/ this shows the gold tone,  the unique voice coil is also interesting


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> I think that the sound will become more beautiful and forgiving as the amp burns in. BTW, are the tubes new as well?


Hi mordy, mostly used EL38/EL11 both pairs are well burned in.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S.
> 
> As an extension to what @mordy said, I must say that my own system has gone through various Jekyll and Hyde stages in this regard...both interesting and perplexing lol!
> 
> ...


Hi h1, One thing for sure, Euforia is not merely an improved Elise but has a sound sig all of it's own, separate to Elise. Euforia is also doing the same thing as Elise did when coming from a Little Dot mkIII, almost everything I'm listening to sounds different, another point you hit on that I've come to believe as you said brain adaptation, I've been listening to my Elise almost every day for the last 1.5 years, so that IMO must be a factor too, anyway I shall keep going, and must remind myself it took me awhile to get in to the Elise, so I think it's a case of patience is a virtue! .


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi h1, One thing for sure, Euforia is not merely an improved Elise but has a sound sig all of it's own, separate to Elise. Euforia is also doing the same thing as Elise did when coming from a Little Dot mkIII, almost everything I'm listening to sounds different, another point you hit on that I've come to believe as you said brain adaptation, I've been listening to my Elise almost every day for the last 1.5 years, so that IMO must be a factor too, anyway I shall keep going, *and must remind myself it took me awhile to get in to the Elise, so I think it's a case of patience is a virtue! *.



Ah well, S...at least it shouldn't be too onerous a task lol!! 

ps. Something else I found (which others also noticed) and mentioned a long time ago now with Elise, and even more so with Euforia...there seem to be certain stages of tube development - especially with the EL family - when suddenly, after a 'resting' period, there appears to be a more-than-usual leap in performance...strange!  Yet another (for me) fascinating aspect of this tube amp hobby of ours...(still so much to learn/discover! ).


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Sounds like you’re in trouble and you haven’t even heard them yet!!



Oh dear, trob...if _I_ am, then so are _you_, mon ami...especially if the better half gets even a whiff of how much they cost lol!! ...


----------



## Scutey

Well a simple change of cable has improved the sound of my Euforia drastically!, swapping out a £100 MCRU power cable for the cheapo stock cable seems to have made all the difference, go figure! .


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Well a simple change of cable has improved the sound of my Euforia drastically!, swapping out a £100 MCRU power cable for the cheapo stock cable seems to have made all the difference, go figure! .



Agreed they make a big difference. The MCRU mains cables have way out-performed vs their cost in my system too, with my bryston streamer and the euforia showing the greatest improvement. You really notice the difference if you switch back to a stock cable.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 27, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Well a simple change of cable has improved the sound of my Euforia drastically!, swapping out a £100 MCRU power cable for the cheapo stock cable seems to have made all the difference, go figure! .



Hi S.

I presume - nay _hope_ - you do indeed mean you swapped the stock cable _for_ that MCRU one lol?!! 

I know some folks do balk at much better quality _mains/power_ cables making any real difference, but I too - along with many others - have been surprised at how they surely can! 

Now all you need to do, of course, is get yourself some really nice mains conditioning/filtering - no cheapies here, please! (preferably with Balanced Mains function), and see Euforia get an even _bigger_ smile on her face...you only live once!! ...(I promise I shan't pass you by as you huddle in the shopfront!!! )....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Sorry to keep plugging this point, bit I'm convinced this is yet another example of Euforia's upgrades enabling better upscale performance in line with any and all other upgrades to the system...even compared to Elise lol...


----------



## connieflyer

I will of course, agree with  CJ, I replaced all my power cables with aftermarket cables, and the difference was apparent.  However, the biggest change in Sq, was when I purchased a Fuman Linear Power Conditioner. This single change, made the biggest impact on music streamed from my NAS, even the internet connected music system containing all the speakers and amplifier.  Did not really care for the way it sounded before the conditioner, but afterwards, with all the headphone related equipment running through it, sound improved considerably.  Now I enjoy streaming from the NAS to the main system and sounds so much better.  Not cheap, but then, considering what I have spent on the headphone system, tubes rolled, Dac, streamer, cables, and NAS, it fit right in. Plus now all the equipment is protected through the Furman.  May get another for my main system, to replace an aging power center.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S.
> 
> I presume - nay _hope_ - you do indeed mean you swapped the stock cable _for_ that MCRU one lol?!!
> 
> ...





connieflyer said:


> I will of course, agree with  CJ, I replaced all my power cables with aftermarket cables, and the difference was apparent.  However, the biggest change in Sq, was when I purchased a Fuman Linear Power Conditioner. This single change, made the biggest impact on music streamed from my NAS, even the internet connected music system containing all the speakers and amplifier.  Did not really care for the way it sounded before the conditioner, but afterwards, with all the headphone related equipment running through it, sound improved considerably.  Now I enjoy streaming from the NAS to the main system and sounds so much better.  Not cheap, but then, considering what I have spent on the headphone system, tubes rolled, Dac, streamer, cables, and NAS, it fit right in. Plus now all the equipment is protected through the Furman.  May get another for my main system, to replace an aging power center.


Ok brace yourself h1.... I was talking about the cheapo stock cable! , yes I know!, *however *after checking and putting MCRU cable back it *did  *improve the sound over the stock cable, I'm still not sure what the problem was, anyway the aftermarket cable is now finally earning it's keep, also you'll also be pleased, nay relieved to hear  that i'm going to get mains conditioner, hopefully next week .


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Ok brace yourself h1.... I was talking about the cheapo stock cable! , yes I know!, *however *after checking and putting MCRU cable back it *did  *improve the sound over the stock cable, I'm still not sure what the problem was, anyway the aftermarket cable is now finally earning it's keep, also you'll also be pleased, nay relieved to hear  that i'm going to get mains conditioner, hopefully next week .



*Phew!!, S*...you nearly gave me a heart attack lol! 

Strange indeed...I know sometimes the power lead to the amp needs an extra push to make proper contact, but one would think in that case it's either working or not??!! And another _possible_ area in some cases is if a mains cable's shielding (if present) has been connected to the ground pin(s)..._or not!!_...trial and error needed here...(sometimes _very_ strange things can happen lol! )

Ah well, glad that all is now fine and that you are in fact noticing benefit from the better cable. Great news also about the imminent mains conditioning...can one ask what you've gone for? 

Mind you, I bet your wallet isn't getting hammered as badly as mine is most probably going to suffer very soon...thanks to @teknorob23 . Have found a distributor here in the UK for the Meze Empyrean headphones who offers to send out a no obligation, 'TBYB' demo pair...so long as you make a pending order payment, which is fair enough IMHO. So, feelings of excitement _and_ trepidation at the moment. They look beautifully made, and by all accounts sound tremendous...not your 'typical' planar magnetic delivery it appears (which I'm glad about, as I do love the conventional 'dynamic' family sound). Plus, they seem to like OTL amps better than most other planars. But they're not cheap, of course!!  So they're really gonna have to blow my souped up T1s _right_ out of the water for my wallet to bleed...(hope you're right, trob...but I'll be heartbroken, you realise!! )....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Thought I'd try the Furman AC-210 AE. Good luck with those Meze hp's, they certainly look very impressive! .


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## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Thought I'd try the Furman AC-210 AE. Good luck with those Meze hp's, they certainly look very impressive! .



I'll be really interested to hear your thoughts on Furman conditioner. This is the one area i've not invested beyond tacima power strips which i suspect is the weakest link in the mains supply to all my components. If the Furman works then it looks like a no brainer at that price, because up until now ive resisted purchasing a conditioner because of the cost.

@hypnos1 very excited to hear what you think of the Meze!


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## connieflyer

I purchased the Furman Elite-15 DM i 13-Outlet Linear Filtering AC Power Source because of the added features, and outlets. I have my pc, NAS, music streamer, Dac, powered speakers, and headphone amp all plugged into the unit. That way everything is protected and the filtering covers all the equipment.  Put off buying one because of the price, but considering the $5000 + investment in system, it was not so bad.  The difference was obvious from the first turn-on.  Sq went up and over all noise was deminished.  Did not think I needed one until I got one.  Bought this one also as if it did not make an immediate difference I could send it back for full refund. It is not going anywhere. Good luck with yours.


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## OctavianH

Scutey said:


> Thought I'd try the Furman AC-210 AE. Good luck with those Meze hp's, they certainly look very impressive! .



I own this model and I have to admit it was a good improvement for me. I wrote about it here in the past:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...ost-for-summary.813488/page-728#post-14742673

The only 2 problems I see are:
1) it has only 2 outputs and in the future you might want to add additional equipment to it and you might regret that you chose only this one
2) you cannot use your MCRU No.75 to it since it has IEC Outputs, and to replace its own power cable which is fixed with a wire it does not make sense, I guess you have to filter what comes on the output and not on the input of a power conditioner.

Please see here a detailed picture:







There is a MCRU cable for these outputs, No. 48:
https://mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-no-48-mains-power-lead/?v=f5b15f58caba

I quite regret now, after I've seen the improvement, that I have chosen the model with only 2 outputs, but unfortunately Furman does not have so many models for Export (220V).


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I own this model and I have to admit it was a good improvement for me. I wrote about it here in the past:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-728#post-14742673
> 
> The only 2 problems I see are:
> ...



Yes this is the problem with the furman conditioners and other pro audio conditioners. Its a shame there doesnt seem to be another obvious UK/ Euro option without jumping up towards the £500+ mark


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## hypnos1 (Mar 28, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Yes this is the problem with the furman conditioners and other pro audio conditioners. Its a shame there doesnt seem to be another obvious UK/ Euro option without jumping up towards the £500+ mark



Hi trob...I must admit I'm extremely impressed with my AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains Conditioning unit with Advanced Filter System - the ASF3000 (5x UK 3-pin outlets). But it is indeed over £700 alas. However, one without said filter system (and 3x UK outlets) is a very reasonable - compared to most other balanced units - £395. But these are _extremely_ heavy beasts lol! ...:https://airlinktransformers.com/cat...-supply?input_voltage=&output_voltage=230&va=

ps. Blast off is tomorrow...I'm shaking already!! ...(better get a move on with the UP-OCC cable to really help 'em along...).

pps. It's a real shame Tacima went down the mains 'strip' path...not a patch on the earlier 'proper' conditioner/filter units alas...


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob...I must admit I'm extremely impressed with my AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains Conditioning unit with Advanced Filter System - the ASF3000 (5x UK 3-pin outlets). But it is indeed over £700 alas. However, one without said filter system (and 3x UK outlets) is a very reasonable - compared to most other balanced units - £395. But these are _extremely_ heavy beasts lol! ...:https://airlinktransformers.com/cat...-supply?input_voltage=&output_voltage=230&va=
> 
> ps. Blast off is tomorrow...I'm shaking already!! ...(better get a move on with the UP-OCC cable to really help 'em along...).
> 
> pps. It's a real shame Tacima went down the mains 'strip' path...not a patch on the earlier 'proper' conditioner/filter units alas...



That’s a more realistic budget and they definitely look good value. My other limiting factor is one of space. This could all fit in my office but I like to listen for pleasure mainly in the living room and there are only so many power supplies i can hide behind the sideboard with my gear in. I think I might have to go down the route of improved power blocks, until we extend our cottage and I get the unmolested listening room of my (pipe) dreams 

Here’s to tomorrow, exciting!!


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## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> I'll be really interested to hear your thoughts on Furman conditioner. This is the one area i've not invested beyond tacima power strips which i suspect is the weakest link in the mains supply to all my components. If the Furman works then it looks like a no brainer at that price, because up until now ive resisted purchasing a conditioner because of the cost.
> 
> @hypnos1 very excited to hear what you think of the Meze!





connieflyer said:


> I purchased the Furman Elite-15 DM i 13-Outlet Linear Filtering AC Power Source because of the added features, and outlets. I have my pc, NAS, music streamer, Dac, powered speakers, and headphone amp all plugged into the unit. That way everything is protected and the filtering covers all the equipment.  Put off buying one because of the price, but considering the $5000 + investment in system, it was not so bad.  The difference was obvious from the first turn-on.  Sq went up and over all noise was deminished.  Did not think I needed one until I got one.  Bought this one also as if it did not make an immediate difference I could send it back for full refund. It is not going anywhere. Good luck with yours.


What I like about the Furman is the price, surprise! , and also the footprint, as the space I have for all my audio gear is very limited, also they seem well made and have a good reputation, trob if I get one I'll let you know how goes.


OctavianH said:


> I own this model and I have to admit it was a good improvement for me. I wrote about it here in the past:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-728#post-14742673
> 
> The only 2 problems I see are:
> ...


Thanks for your input O, I think this could still be a good investment for my Euforia/Elise and if I find I need more outputs I can use it on other equipment I have separate from my audio gear, however I haven't bought one yet, as I will also check out h1's suggestion .


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## Scutey

@hypnos1 just a quickie. Those curious EL38/CV450 arrived today in double quick time, just three days from France, anyway gave them a quick warm up tried them for 30 minutes and they sound pretty dull, they may, of course, need burn in, however every EL38 I've tried sounded much better burned in or not, so unless they improve drastically I don't think these are worth looking out for .


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## mordy (Mar 28, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> I own this model and I have to admit it was a good improvement for me. I wrote about it here in the past:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-–-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary.813488/page-728#post-14742673
> 
> The only 2 problems I see are:
> ...


Hope I don't ask a silly question, but what happens if you plug in an outlet strip into one of the two plugs? If the equipment you use does not exceed the wattage on that outlet, wouldn't this work?


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## OctavianH

@mordy I am not sure if this is possbile, these outputs look like:






So I guess you need compatible IEC cables for them. I have to say that the Furman was a big improvement for me, but I observed also a new smaller one when adding some decent shielded cables to its outputs:


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## hypnos1 (Apr 1, 2019)

Hey @Scutey and @teknorob23 ...re. the AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains Units - they are _very_ large and _very_ heavy, so it looks as if you'd have to check all these measurements if space is limited lol!!

As for just the 2 outlets of the Furman, @mordy might well have a point regarding doubling up, or more (with reservations), from 1 or both of them. And as he says, no problem power-wise if staying within specification. I personally would want to keep the number limited as much as possible...and as _simple_ as possible (some folks think that even a power indicator light on a strip is undesirable!). Then, any degradation should be kept to a minimum...especially if, as @OctavianH has found, good quality (shielded) power cords are used to any and all equipment 

Now then folks, while I'm here, I may as well do a bit more teasing and give you my initial impressions of the Meze Empyrean headphones that arrived today.

Well, trob, what can I say?...just that you are now top of my better half's hit list (and I haven't even told her the full truth about price yet...and probably never will!!!  Apart from telling her any future trip to Rhodes is gonna be a long way off alas...).

I had vowed to myself that I wouldn't be making any snap decisions, and that it would all be conducted with due care, diligence and patience...not to mention my (now) usual hyper-analytical dissection lol..._*huh, so much for that!! *_After less than an hour, I realised there's no way on this Earth could I go back to my beloved souped up T1s..._ever!!_ I'm afraid my cynical self couldn't easily accept _everything_ you said about them, trob, and I'm sorry and apologise for that...you were absolutely spot on! 

I must admit that the first few tracks I often use for testing purposes - like Mim Grey's 'Purple Sky' and Joni Mitchell's 'A case of you' - gave the emotional feel I look for, but not _mind-blowingly _better than my T1s.... _*However...*_all that changed first of all when I gave Barbra Streisand's 'Guilty' a spin. I knew this was an extremely well recorded album - especially with the EL11/EL38 combo caressing Euforia - but these Empyreans delivered a sound I simply wasn't prepared for....almost sold on them already!

The same thing with more of my favourite test pieces...such as Alan Parson's 'The Turn of a friendly card'...getting nearer to wallet rape!  But not long after, I knew I was totally, hopelessly hooked...courtesy of the amazing hi-res remastered (old) version of Holst's 'Planets Suite', with the London Philharmonic Orchestra and Sir Adrian Boult. Just 2 tracks - 'Mars' (of course!) and 'Uranus' had me wanting to return the demo there and then and get my new set prepared for shipment straight away. I have _never_ heard such a sound from headphones...and that includes Utopias out of F-A's Euforia at CanJam London a while back...ie. _*deal done lol!
*_
So, just what has destroyed all sense and reason?...a good few things actually, like...(apart from incredible quality of manufacture and attention to detail)...in short...

1. Unlike generally held views regarding planar magnetic cans - viz OTL amps not really able to do them full justice - Euforia (with EL11/38 tubes in situ) drives these Empyreans as if specifically made for each other. Totally effortless and with complete authority and control...in fact, my amp has to drive *both* these and my T1s at the same time...and no hint whatsoever of a struggle. Indeed, these 31.6 ohm planars deliver a _louder_ output than the Beyers!

2. Bass is quite extraordinary...I thought I'd got my T1s digging really deep, but there's no comparison - extends _much_ further; with good sub-bass, and a lot more detail throughout the lower frequencies and into the mids, which are deliciously full. But, fortunately, not so much as to intrude on the higher frequencies....(unless very sensitive to bass, that is!).

3. Treble : at first I thought the upper ranges to be a tad light on T1 'sparkle' and subsequent 'air'...something that wasn't liked too much by a member on the US loaner program. This is an area where the T1s excel IMHO, and does help give a bit more spacious and 'cavernous' quality to the sound, coupled with a bit extra reverb. However, after hearing the Meze's delivery, I now realise that such 'artifacts' are indeed that...ie. slightly _unnatural_, and not really _true_....shattering my illusions in the process!! ...(despite having come to rather like them!).
Upper frequencies still extend well, again with lots of detail across the range. Cymbals, for example, have just the right amount of 'splash', and wonderful decay.

And so what really strikes you about these cans is their _natural_ sound...what some would call _organic_, I suppose. Everything is wonderfully balanced, with excellent separation and placement...voices are positioned so as to be 'intimate', but without seeming too forward, and definitely not recessed in any way.

I could go into much more intricate detail re. specific instrument and voice qualities, but I think you've probably got the picture by now. Together, the Empyrean's abilities turn those tracks I mentioned from Holst's 'Planets' into an experience more akin to being there in the concert hall than I've ever heard before...but with even better focus/imagery/soundstage than most halls can ever manage lol!  The sound of bass drums; tubas; horns; bassoons, trumpets et al coming straight at - and around! - you in 'Mars' is one that sent shivers up my spine...along with more delicate upper frequency sections from other movements...truly awe-inspiring.

ps. _Electronic_ instruments, not just acoustic, have an energy, drive and attack that is also spine-tingling...when done well, that is!

These particular planars have finally justified all I have been doing these past years in upgrading the rest of my system, and confirmed _once again_ that given the chance, Euforia can perform to a level way beyond most folks' understanding/belief...

So, folks, in conclusion I would say give them a listen some time, if you get the chance. *However*...once you hear what these headphones can do, I doubt you'd ever be happy going back to your old ones alas! And just might have you turn bank robber lol......CHEERS!...CJ

And as a further tease, just a few pics for you   :

    

Thought the T1s were a fair size...but are dwarfed by the Empyreans!! And just look at those earpads...enormous!!

ps  Did I say?...these are the most comfortable headphones imaginable...

pps. Thanks a million trob...even if my wallet doesn't reciprocate lol!  

ppps. And all this goodness _before_ I treat them to my replacement DIY UP-OCC silver and copper cable!!...can't wait...

pppps. I must say many thanks once again to Hifonix here in the UK (especially Aseem) for their splendid help and service in letting me have a pair on demo at home, with no obligation to purchase. With free delivery and 2 year warranty, this has to be one of the best deals around!


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## OctavianH

Well, at least there is one thing which is properly produced in Romania. LOL

If you decide to keep them, what I already think you've done, can you tell us the difference between the different ear pads and how hard is to exchange them? Because I see you have a spare part there which I think will provide you a different sound signature.

PS. For 31.6 Ohm I was curious to see if a tube amp handles them with care.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Well, at least there is one thing which is properly produced in Romania. LOL
> 
> If you decide to keep them, what I already think you've done, can you tell us the difference between the different ear pads and how hard is to exchange them? Because I see you have a spare part there which I think will provide you a different sound signature.
> 
> PS. For 31.6 Ohm I was curious to see if a tube amp handles them with care.



Hi OH...yep, would sell my Mother - _and_ better half to get these!! But luckily - for me! - gonna spend some savings that are simply losing value by the day lol! 

Haven't yet got round to trying the leather pads...will have to wait 'til tomorrow. I do believe they simply attach straight on via magnets...how cool/convenient is that?!! Every aspect of design and construction of these beauties is quite breathtaking...something I never indeed suspected would come out of Romania ... (no insult intended!). And yes again, I'm totally dumbfounded that headphones supposedly 'not ideal' for OTL amps are performing so spectacularly...but don't forget, Euforia + EL11/38s is rather special lol! ...with a helping hand from the rest of the system, of course ...

(Better go keep my good lady company, before she vetoes my dream-come-true!...so BFN folks...).


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## Scutey

They're great looking cans h1!, good to hear you're enjoying them, I guess , if you want to get them best not tell your better half how much they cost, wives, as I'm sure you know, and mine included, don't always understand these things that us guys just have to do! .


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## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Every aspect of design and construction of these beauties is quite breathtaking...something I never indeed suspected would come out of Romania ... (no insult intended!).



Romania is a country of contrasts and most probably exactly what you are not expecting to find when watching TV news. I am also *shocked* when reading news about Romania so I fully understand the "reluctance" one might have. I fully agree with it and also share it in some way.
But Transylvania is very different from the southern / eastern part and this is the area where I live. Meze Audio are in the Northern part of Transylvania, so you can be sure they really do quality stuff there  What to say, we have very good wine, food, vampires and Meze Empyrean even if 99% of the country cannot afford them. 

Anyway, just to avoid confusion that I live in a cave, this is my town:


Of course, beware of the southern / eastern part where I have to admit I also avoid to travel since I really hate the crowded traffic and "hell drivers".

PS. There is also a custom tube amp builder here but he is making mostly "speakers" models. You can see 2 of his "works" here:
https://www.audioweb.ro/anunturi/vanzatori-acceptati/viobio/


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## myphone

barontan2418 said:


> Just wondered if anybody has tried Tung Sol 5998's with EL11 drivers? I've got that combination in both Elise and Euforia at the moment and I'm really liking this combo. I've read most of the Elise/Euforia threads and don't remember seeing any comments. My reasoning for giving this a shot was I consider EL 11 my best drivers and 5998 my best non EL powers so wondered how they might sound together. Would be interested in any views if only to prove my 67 years old ears are still up to all this tube rolling. Cheers.



I have used EL11 with 5998 in Euforia before. EL 11 is on the lean side. EL11/5998 worked quite well with T1 and HD65X. I personally prefer warmer drivers for HD800 or HD600.


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## myphone

I like clear top 5998 and 421A more than chrome top 5998.


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @Scutey and @teknorob23 ...re. the AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains Units - they are _very_ large and _very_ heavy, so it looks as if you'd have to check all these measurements if space is limited lol!!
> 
> As for just the 2 outlets of the Furman, @mordy might well have a point regarding doubling up, or more (with reservations), from 1 or both of them. And as he says, no problem power-wise if staying within specification. I personally would want to keep the number limited as much as possible...and as _simple_ as possible (some folks think that even a power indicator light on a strip is undesirable!). Then, any degradation should be kept to a minimum...especially if, as @OctavianH has found, good quality (shielded) power cords are used to any and all equipment
> 
> ...



I don’t know whether to apologise or congratulate you


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Romania is a country of contrasts and most probably exactly what you are not expecting to find when watching TV news. I am also *shocked* when reading news about Romania so I fully understand the "reluctance" one might have. I fully agree with it and also share it in some way.
> But Transylvania is very different from the southern / eastern part and this is the area where I live. Meze Audio are in the Northern part of Transylvania, so you can be sure they really do quality stuff there  What to say, we have very good wine, food, vampires and Meze Empyrean even if 99% of the country cannot afford them.
> 
> Anyway, just to avoid confusion that I live in a cave, this is my town:
> ...




That's one beautiful part of the world you live in OH...never realised Romania could look like that lol! ...However, as you say, I'm sure not _all_ the country looks the same! ...(which can also be said of our 'Green and pleasant land' nowadays alas...). Transylvania is evidently the home of the more-than-average discerning citizen......as witnessed by the wonderful  craftsmanship of these Meze Empyreans - truly a work of art, as well as sounding tremendous.

Afraid trying the leather pads may well have to wait 'til tomorrow, but will certainly give them a go before returning these demos on Monday. Don't need any longer to make up my mind - that was done within the first hour yesterday lol...so I want my very own pair ASAP!!

And fear not @Scutey ...despite the good lady still trying to fish for the truth, I will (nay _must_) stay firm...certainly a case of 'ignorance is bliss' methinks! 

ps. Was that possibly Vlad's ghost I glimpsed in one of those beautiful castles? Or was he in a more remote mountain location?! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I don’t know whether to apologise or congratulate you



Certainly no need to apologise to _me_, trob...the more of my favourite tracks I hear, the more I'm falling hopelessly in love with these Empyreans.

Did I mention last time just how gorgeously *smooth* these things sound?...well I have now - sounds swimming effortlessly around my head hardly begins to describe the experience lol......

ps. @Scutey ...Have those strange looking EL38s improved at all? Hope so, but their looks aren't terribly encouraging, alas......CHEERS!


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## OctavianH (Mar 30, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> That's one beautiful part of the world you live in OH...never realised Romania could look like that lol! ...However, as you say, I'm sure not _all_ the country looks the same! ...(which can also be said of our 'Green and pleasant land' nowadays alas...). Transylvania is evidently the home of the more-than-average discerning citizen......as witnessed by the wonderful  craftsmanship of these Meze Empyreans - truly a work of art, as well as sounding tremendous.
> 
> Afraid trying the leather pads may well have to wait 'til tomorrow, but will certainly give them a go before returning these demos on Monday. Don't need any longer to make up my mind - that was done within the first hour yesterday lol...so I want my very own pair ASAP!!
> 
> ...



The castle presented in that video at 1:26 is the Bran Castle which lies at 40 km near Brasov. And yes, you were right, this is the "Dracula's castle" people have read about in Bram Stoker's novel. But I think nowadays Vlad prefers to go in the old town of Brasov for a beer or a good wine instead of sitting in those cold castles. All of them are full of tourists and the prices are double because of that for a beer which is less than average. Brasov is a typical medieval small town like Krakov or others in Poland,  Czeh Republic or Hungary. All these towns are looking quite the same in Europe. The image of Romania was strongly affected by the gypsies who emigrated to Western Europe and, of course, they were not the best ambassadors of the country. They are a small minority here present because of historical reasons (slaves in medieval ages) and nowadays their community is not properly integrated (or, should I say, refuses to integrate?) in the "european values". We have here exactly the same problems with them as the other countries they are travelling to. Anyway, enough with history because this are headphone related forums.

PS. The town where Meze Empyrean are made, Baia Mare, is translated as "The big bath". Not very audiophile, isn't it?  I think the name comes from the Roman Empire times when they were building baths and stuff. Hard working guys the romans, a lot of towns have reminiscences of them here.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 31, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Well, at least there is one thing which is properly produced in Romania. LOL
> 
> If you decide to keep them, what I already think you've done, can you tell us the difference between the different ear pads and how hard is to exchange them? Because I see you have a spare part there which I think will provide you a different sound signature.
> 
> PS. For 31.6 Ohm I was curious to see if a tube amp handles them with care.



Hi OH...decided in that first hour I simply had to have them...no question lol!  And with every hour Euforia is liking these particular planars more and more...not to mention the EL11/38 combo.

Last night what my setup, complete with Empyreans, did for Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours' justified the price of admission alone...have already forgotten/dismissed the entry fee!! 

As for velour vs leather - for _me_, and in my setup, it's velour all the way. Bass and mids become far too dominant with leather IMHO, and have far too negative an impact on the clean, crystal clear precision I've come to love from my T1s. Overall separation and placement within the soundstage also suffer...not at all acceptable to me, I'm afraid . Perhaps more acceptable to LCD fans (early models especially)?...


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## Scutey (Apr 1, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> ps. @Scutey ...Have those strange looking EL38s improved at all? Hope so, but their looks aren't terribly encouraging, alas......CHEERS!


Hi h1,Those rather odd QTL branded EL38's. Despite their unconventional looks they have improved, quite significantly too! . Now they're not in the same league as the Philips/RT coated balloon type, or I suspect your Mullard balloons either, however, they have a flavour of their own, not quite as warm or weighty as our familiar 38's, somewhat leaner/cooler, they don't go quite as low in the sub bass, either, they have good width/depth, have very good micro detail, and transparency, overall dynamics are very good, I still only have about 5 hours on them but I would say they're worth a look .


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## hypnos1 (Apr 2, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Hi h1,Those rather odd QTL branded EL38's. Despite their unconventional looks they have improved, quite significantly too! . Now they're not in the same league as the Philips/RT coated balloon type, or I suspect your Mullard balloons either, however, they have a flavour of their own, not quite as warm or weighty as our familiar 38's, somewhat leaner/cooler, they don't go quite as low in the sub bass, either, they have good width/depth, have very good micro detail, and transparency, overall dynamics are very good, I still only have about 5 hours on them but I would say they're worth a look .



Glad to hear it, S...but have no desire to try _any_ other tubes now lol!  What my current setup does for - and with! - the Meze Empyreans is quite stupendous.... And all I can say is that either their design as 'Hybrid Array Isodynamic' planars defies all previous tenets re. such low impedance cans not being suitable for OTL amps... or F-A did a much better than expected job of designing Elise and Euforia so as to _specifically_ cope with them far better than most other OTLs......or *both?!!
*
Whatever, as penance for my profligacy, I am now suffering dreadful Euforia withdrawal symptoms...Having today returned my demo pair of Empys, I must wait until tomorrow for my very own pair, and a fix to beat all fixes. I simply can't even bear to go back to listening to my beloved T1s . Still, I thank the Gods for the wonderful service and home demo facility from Hifonix (UK). To have to endure just 2 days between returning the demo pair and receiving my new ones is miraculous IMHO! And both shipments to me were _free_ next day delivery via DPD, and my demo return cost was a mere £7, via UPS next day (drop off at local point). An incredible deal as far as I'm concerned. Especially with a _*two*_ year warranty, as opposed to just one, if buying direct from Meze...

So now I look forward to not only enjoying these tremendous cans once more, but also seeing what my DIY UP-OCC cable does for them lol  ...CHEERS!

ps. A link to Hifonix for anyone interested : https://www.hifonix.co.uk/meze-open-back-headphones


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Hi h1,Those rather odd QTL branded EL38's. Despite their unconventional looks they have improved, quite significantly too! . Now they're not in the same league as the Philips/RT coated balloon type, or I suspect your Mullard balloons either, however, they have a flavour of their own, not quite as warm or weighty as our familiar 38's, somewhat leaner/cooler, they don't go quite as low in the sub bass, either, they have good width/depth, have very good micro detail, and transparency, overall dynamics are very good, I still only have about 5 hours on them but I would say they're worth a look .


Hi Scutey. 
I think your balloon EL38's are of a similar ilk as my Union Electronics which going by your discription  sound very much the same. I've just ordered another pair so they must be growing on me. Just backed out of the bid for two Mullard balloons on ebay, I got as far as £150. They are close to £200 now, a bit too rich for me.


----------



## Scutey

Thanks for the info bt!, I must admit I couldn't find out much about them, however they are turning out to be a rather nice tube!. As for those Mullard balloons I had my eye on those as well  but sadly they're going to go for silly money, seems a precedent has been set, if they come up again the'll go for similar money, so with a heavy heart I'm going to have to pass them by as well, fortunately I have to two very nice pair of coated balloon 38's in Philips and RT flavours, along with a nice pair of h1's CV450, so I think I'll have to be satisfied with those .


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi Scutey.
> I think your balloon EL38's are of a similar ilk as my Union Electronics which going by your discription  sound very much the same. I've just ordered another pair so they must be growing on me. Just backed out of the bid for two Mullard balloons on ebay, I got as far as £150. They are close to £200 now, a bit too rich for me.



Ye Gods guys...have I set yet another train running way out of control lol?!  I take it it's not one, or more, of ours getting carried away?......Looks then like others have cottoned on to the true potential and worth of this tube, that not too long ago was regarded almost as an 'also ran' compared to its sister, the much more expensive EL37. But it's quite clear to me from their construction that they are to all intents and purposes the exact same tube!...the EL38 merely being later designated for a different purpose. So congrats to those who, along with yours truly, took a gamble in the early pioneering days. As I have always maintained, this particular family of EL tubes especially belongs right up there at the top of the power tube tree.._.bar none!!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ...and g'night all...


----------



## Scutey

Seems like you might have!, I spotted them on the first day, I must admit I thought that was my chance to pick up a pair but just  24 hours later they were already up £56, seems like they are going to go north of £200 +, sadly that's more than I'm prepared to pay.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Seems like you might have!, I spotted them on the first day, I must admit I thought that was my chance to pick up a pair but just  24 hours later they were already up £56, seems like they are going to go north of £200 +, sadly that's more than I'm prepared to pay.



That's a real bummer for you Scutey- or @barontan2418 ! But those coated French 38s you have are only very marginally behind, and the later 'pretty' ones not much further...and probably far less troublesome lol!! 

Shame I can't claim a (generous) commission on the tubes I've promoted these past few years!! ...


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys. 

It's a real shame those balloon EL38s are reaching silly money...I'm afraid I wouldn't fill the seller's pockets just on principle lol!! Perhaps others might turn up unspotted some time...it does occasionally happen (as y'all know! ).

Anyway, I just thought I'd update on my Meze Empyreans that arrived today...(having returned my demo pair just the day before yesterday...amazing!).

Do I have any regrets over my impulsive behaviour in the last few days?...*NO WAY!!*...If anything, I'm even _more_ impressed as I rekindled my immediate infatuation this afternoon. And all down to disconnecting my (fixed) T1s, so more energy is delivered to the planars. And boy, do they like a bit of extra juice! - hence most OTL amps not really up to driving them to best advantage. But Euforia - especially with the EL11/38s in place - drives them even more easily than my Beyer T1s...incredible! Bass is now even more stupendous, and more I would never, ever need or want.

Soundstage also is even more holographic...and that's before proper burn-in of cans and cable. So now I'm more interested/excited than ever before to see what my UP-OCC cable does for them...tomorrow.
The whole presentation is so wonderfully smooth and balanced, that an extra bonus is being able to turn up the volume without any hint whatsoever of things getting out of control, or ears objecting...nice!

Actually, I suspect that Meze's 'Isodynamic Hybrid Array' design could also be helping such OTL amps drive them much more easily than 'usual' planars...whatever, my previous concerns about planar magnetic cans for our amps are now totally dismissed...thank goodness!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hi CJ, you being the expert on this now, and the fact you are so willing to help us all attain the kind of sonic bliss that you have, I thought perhaps, since we have no distrubuters here to demo them, you could send them to me, as a gesture of friendship of course, for a limited amount of time, say three months, just to make sure I double check your results!!!!!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ, you being the expert on this now, and the fact you are so willing to help us all attain the kind of sonic bliss that you have, I thought perhaps, since we have no distrubuters here to demo them, you could send them to me, as a gesture of friendship of course, for a limited amount of time, say three months, just to make sure I double check your results!!!!!!



Hmmm, my dear friend...we may well be bosom buddies across the 'Pond', but I'm afraid there has to be a limit to friendship and dedication to forum lol! 

Before today I just _might_(?!) have felt more generous, but now...*no way, I'm afraid!* Why so? Because today I managed to get my 12-wire UP-OCC silver and copper replacement cable attached - _eventually_ - and the result is even better than I anticipated! . (I say eventually, because as you know, I always try to eliminate connectors wherever possible so, not even thinking of going straight to the headphone's drivers this time(!!), I settled for 'just' making direct metal-to-metal contact between my wires and the 4x mini-XLR _pins _of each channel. With such a tiny amount of space to work in, you can probably imagine the air was somewhat blue today...poor Rita!!).

Anyway, the stress was more than worth it because I was actually somewhat surprised that the Empyrean's sound could be pushed a good bit further.

I now realise the gorgeously smooth and balanced delivery I mentioned before was, for me, just a little on the 'polite' side. But I was prepared to forego my T1's extra 'bite' in exchange for everything else the Mezes do so well...hours of non-fatiguing listening bliss being just one other lol! *However*, now with the different cable in place, smoothness and perfect balance are still present...but with an added extra sparkle in the upper frequencies; even more detail throughout the range; even better separation and placement, expanding soundstage more than ever; tighter, more solid bass...and these are just for starters. But to be honest, these are precisely the extras in performance I expected from the Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires...this stuff is without doubt the final magic ingredient in showcasing just what equipment is capable of. I personally now wouldn't even think of using anything else .

All this has also solidified my personal belief that if anything is ever found 'missing' in Euforia - especially with the EL11/38 combo, it is definitely _not_ the result of '_personal preference', _but simply the rest of the system - including cables - not providing the magic ingredients she craves to scale the heights..._full stop!_  The sound now coming from these Empyreans, driven by my Euforia setup, is in another league entirely...far more so in fact than I really anticipated.

And so finally, all that remains for me to say is...first save up the funds, _then _try to arrange for a demo of these headphones or hope to find a dealer who offers refund (without unreasonable 'restocking' fees) if you don't agree with my findings.

I myself have now proved beyond any doubt whatsoever that Euforia can drive these particular _planar _cans as well, if not better, than any higher impedance dynamics you care to name...even if conventional wisdom says OTLs _don't!!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23 (Apr 5, 2019)

A bit more research in to finding "sounds-to-good-to-be-true" power filter/conditioners. 

I found a selection by german, Lithuanian and chinese companies. I'm guessing they might all originate or in the same chinese factory, because as you'll see there's a lot of visual similarities between the makes.. or perhaps thats being over generous and instead i should say they're identical apart from logos and colours 

Rubbish or worth a try?

https://www.dynavox-audio.de/produk...sten/hifi-netzfilter-x6000-schwarzsilber.html

https://www.tagaharmony.com/en/products/3655/home-electronics/product/9025/pf-2000

https://www.tagaharmony.com/en/products/3655/home-electronics/product/251/pf-1000

https://www.dynavox-audio.de/produk...ifi-steckdosenleiste-x4100-schwarzsilber.html

http://www.badahi-fi.com/eng/detail.asp?id=94

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-C...&qid=1554462297&s=electronics&sr=1-1-fkmrnull


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> A bit more research in to finding "sounds-to-good-to-be-true" power filter/conditioners.
> 
> I found a selection by german, Lithuanian and chinese companies. I'm guessing they might all originate or in the same chinese factory, because as you'll see there's a lot of visual similarities between the makes.. or perhaps thats being over generous and instead i should say they're identical apart from logos and colours
> 
> ...


My Furman power conditioner has arrived, just waiting for the output cable to arrive, then, if you're interested I'll let you know what it's like.


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> My Furman power conditioner has arrived, just waiting for the output cable to arrive, then, if you're interested I'll let you know what it's like.



@Scutey i'm really interested to hear what you think and if it makes a noticeable difference.  Since you've started me looking, i'm very tempted to try one of these inexpensive options. I am interested in trying one that i plug either UK plugs or Shuko plugs into, so i may try the Dynavox or Taga harmony, block/filter's which i can try and return via amazon. I havent really got room for larger hifi width conditioners they sell. Anyway as i say yes please, im very interested to hear how the Furman performs


----------



## teknorob23

I’ve swapped my Hugo for my brothers Qutest and I see you can set the voltage output depending on the amp, so I’m hoping someone can advise what the best setting is for use with the euforia. Thx in advance


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> @Scutey i'm really interested to hear what you think and if it makes a noticeable difference.  Since you've started me looking, i'm very tempted to try one of these inexpensive options. I am interested in trying one that i plug either UK plugs or Shuko plugs into, so i may try the Dynavox or Taga harmony, block/filter's which i can try and return via amazon. I havent really got room for larger hifi width conditioners they sell. Anyway as i say yes please, im very interested to hear how the Furman performs


No problem, I'll let you know, still waiting on the output cable but as soon as it arrives I shall give it a go.


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 6, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> I’ve swapped my Hugo for my brothers Qutest and I see you can set the voltage output depending on the amp, so I’m hoping someone can advise what the best setting is for use with the euforia. Thx in advance



When I ordered Elise MK2, in February 2018, I was using 2Qute which had a fixed 3V output voltage. At that time I remember I emailed Lukasz Feliks to ask if this might damage the tube amp and the answer was that it is no problem. Now, I use my Elise with Qutest and 3V output because I have the feeling that it has the best dynamics.
What really happens, imho, is that if you provide 1V for example, and push higher the tube amp volume, you will let Elise/Euforia amplify more of that input signal and obtain a more tubey sound. If you use 3V output you will reduce the "tube" influence. Anyway, I searched a lot on different forums and many other users preferred the 3V.
So I can say that I used both 2Qute and Qutest (which I currently own) with 3V output without problems. On this setting my tube amp volume is somewhere at 25%. I hope this helps.

Please share us your comparison between both.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> When I ordered Elise MK2, in February 2018, I was using 2Qute which had a fixed 3V output voltage. At that time I remember I emailed Lukasz Feliks to ask if this might damage the tube amp and the answer was that it is no problem. Now, I use my Elise with Qutest and 3V output because I have the feeling that it has the best dynamics.
> What really happens, imho, is that if you provide 1V for example, and push higher the tube amp volume, you will let Elise/Euforia amplify more of that input ssignal and obtain a more tubey sound. If you use 3V output you will reduce the "tube" influence. Anyway, I searched a lot on different forums and many other users preferred the 3V.
> So I can say that I used both 2Qute and Qutest (which I currently own) with 3V output without problems. On this setting my tube amp volume is somewhere at 25%. I hope this helps.
> 
> Please share us your comparison between both.



@OctavianH thats brilliant thank you Rob


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I’ve swapped my Hugo for my brothers Qutest and I see you can set the voltage output depending on the amp, so I’m hoping someone can advise what the best setting is for use with the euforia. Thx in advance



Hi trob.

As OH says, 3V will certainly be no problem at all...in fact that's the line level out when set specifically on Hugo2. Out of interest, I tried different output levels via H2's remote control volume (wonderful way to alter Euforia's volume remotely lol!), and did notice a 'cleaner' sound at this - and higher V settings! - than at much lower levels, and with commensurate lower volume settings on the amp. I also noticed that one can in fact go a good bit higher than 3V before distortion sets in...ie close to 'white', but haven't measured to see just what the figure is.


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys...I've just got to let you know some really interesting news I had today, courtesy of my enquiry to the folks at Meze re. Euforia's splendid affinity with their flagship Empyrean headphones...despite being an OTL amp that some said would not be able to drive these planars very well.

And what d'ya know...their reply fair knocked me for six!  : it turns out they did in fact work with F-A from early on "soundwise", especially with our Euforia..._jackpot!!_  And this would explain why their Empyreans are often showcased with this amp. What better endorsement can one get than that?!!

So this now adds a headphone manufacturer's hi-end flagship product that's taking the market by storm to the likes of Focal and ZMF, who have been happy to marry their top cans to F-A's amps. Need I say more lol?...methinks not ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Still loving these Empyreans more by the day...truly sensational......Thanks a million, F-A and Meze.


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob.
> 
> As OH says, 3V will certainly be no problem at all...in fact that's the line level out when set specifically on Hugo2. Out of interest, I tried different output levels via H2's remote control volume (wonderful way to alter Euforia's volume remotely lol!), and did notice a 'cleaner' sound at this - and higher V settings! - than at much lower levels, and with commensurate lower volume settings on the amp. I also noticed that one can in fact go a good bit higher than 3V before distortion sets in...ie close to 'white', but haven't measured to see just what the figure is.



Thanks for the confirmation. Re the h2, when you set to line out, doesn’t it pretty much auto set at the highest volume? As an aside I’m really not enjoying the Qutest. Nothing to do with it’s performance but purely down to the lack missing convenience of the remote. The DSP volume in Roon is rubbish and I'd swear the SQ is worse with the software remote enabled.. it’s going to be a long two weeks and has added something to my wish list for the euforia mkII  Also I know I said I my recent bout of upgraditis had thankfully for my credit cards sake, passed, well i might have been slightly premature in my predictions. I'd been looking to upgrade my trusty Supra USB cable for a while and have been coveting something exotic from Tellurium Q. On friday a Black Diamond USB appeared on ebay with a raft of other TQ bits on. I got chatting to the seller and it turns out sadly his brother who was a journo at HIFi+ had died last and the TQ cables were the only brand test samples he'd kept , which is what was being sold off. Being a mercenary first audiophile  and despite its rather unfortunate and sad provenance, I bought the USB, and wow its the most fantastic bit of snake oil poured into my set up in sometime. I'm not sure i'd have paid the RRP of over £600, but that said its made my beloved supra sound muddled, congested and almost broken. I wasnt expecting the differences to be so instantly noticeable, but then i always thought i'd be susceptible to a jedi mind trick. Only downside, is TQ are incredibly secretive about their technology, materials and production processes so i've very little idea as to why it sounds so good. Only problem is this was complete luck on my part, as i took a total punt not having heard it first and all this has done is fuel my curiosity as to what other cables might do... mmmmm perhaps it might be more pertinent for me to look into some sort treatment or 12-steps program for audiopholics


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 9, 2019)

USB cables are very important, even if many claim that digital transmission works in the same way using any cable. For me was a very big difference when switching to QED Reference and I am sure that Audioquest Diamond or the one you are mentioning are much better. The problem I have is that I need a 3m cable and not many vendors are offering such a length. I tried to "fix" my USB input of the Qutest, which is my weakest point in the line, with several filters or reclockers and I have to admit that it is still far behind the optical input connected to my CD Transport.

Anyway, by chance I might obtain a Yarland Power Strip 8:
http://www.soundundmovie.de/html/power_strip_8.html







This unit has 4 filtered plugs and 4 unfiltered and in the description I see:

*Please note that although the filter has a clean power, filtering out the role of clutter, but also likely to cause compression dynamics, so 4-way filter with the socket should not be used for amplifiers, can be used for audio (CD machine, decoder, etc.) The non-filtered sockets are available for amplifiers.*

Now, honestly it is not very clear to me if a tube amp is also included here or these advices are only for power amplifiers.
Should I connect it to a filtered socket? What's the rule behind this restriction?
Does it make sense to plug to a filtered one the Furman?


----------



## iamalex

OctavianH said:


> USB cables are very important, even if many claim that digital transmission works in the same way using any cable. For me was a very big difference when switching to QED Reference and I am sure that Audioquest Diamond or the one you are mentioning are much better. The problem I have is that I need a 3m cable and not many vendors are offering such a length. I tried to "fix" my USB input of the Qutest, which is my weakest point in the line, with several filters or reclockers and I have to admit that it is still far behind the optical input connected to my CD Transport.
> 
> Anyway, by chance I might obtain a Yarland Power Strip 8:
> http://www.soundundmovie.de/html/power_strip_8.html
> ...



I don't know that much about electricity, but what I have read about power conditioning it seems that even Class-D speaker amps can be plugged to a filtered outlet - so I guess it's mostly determined on the wattage your device draws if you have to use the filtered or the non-filtered outlet. BUT of course there are different takes on power filtering and some might do better with amps than others? - Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in 

Best,
Alex


----------



## connieflyer

If you are concerned about plugging in the tube amp into your filter it's not going to hurt it to give it a try and see if it sounds better or worse. For myself I have always had my main music system plugged into a filter conditioner and now with the headphones system including streamer dac Nas PC and the tube amp all are plugged in to the filter conditioner Fuhrman's doing a great job. Noticed a large difference especially through the Nas.


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Thanks for the confirmation. Re the h2, when you set to line out, doesn’t it pretty much auto set at the highest volume? As an aside I’m really not enjoying the Qutest. Nothing to do with it’s performance but purely down to the lack missing convenience of the remote. The DSP volume in Roon is rubbish and I'd swear the SQ is worse with the software remote enabled.. it’s going to be a long two weeks and has added something to my wish list for the euforia mkII  Also I know I said I my recent bout of upgraditis had thankfully for my credit cards sake, passed, well i might have been slightly premature in my predictions. I'd been looking to upgrade my trusty Supra USB cable for a while and have been coveting something exotic from Tellurium Q. On friday a Black Diamond USB appeared on ebay with a raft of other TQ bits on. I got chatting to the seller and it turns out sadly his brother who was a journo at HIFi+ had died last and the TQ cables were the only brand test samples he'd kept , which is what was being sold off. Being a mercenary first audiophile  and despite its rather unfortunate and sad provenance, I bought the USB, and wow its the most fantastic bit of snake oil poured into my set up in sometime. I'm not sure i'd have paid the RRP of over £600, but that said its made my beloved supra sound muddled, congested and almost broken. I wasnt expecting the differences to be so instantly noticeable, but then i always thought i'd be susceptible to a jedi mind trick. Only downside, is TQ are incredibly secretive about their technology, materials and production processes so i've very little idea as to why it sounds so good. Only problem is this was complete luck on my part, as i took a total punt not having heard it first and all this has done is fuel my curiosity as to what other cables might do... mmmmm perhaps it might be more pertinent for me to look into some sort treatment or 12-steps program for audiopholics



Hi trob.

With the Hugo2, setting it to line out gives 3V, which is actually a good way off max volume. And yes, using variable volume out instead of sticking to line level is, to me also, an invaluable means of controlling Euforia's final volume level lol! 

You certainly lucked out with that USB cable, mon ami...well done! The beauty of electrical digital coax of course is that one can get far superior quality wire in there compared to most USB cables...especially if one goes the DIY route!! (Not to mention the other problems associated with USB signal transfer). But the downside is if using a PC/laptop with just USB out and/or wanting DSD files.

And forget any treatment programs...by now you are well and truly, hopelessly _hooked_...and there's no way out, I'm afraid!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> USB cables are very important, even if many claim that digital transmission works in the same way using any cable. For me was a very big difference when switching to QED Reference and I am sure that Audioquest Diamond or the one you are mentioning are much better. The problem I have is that I need a 3m cable and not many vendors are offering such a length. I tried to "fix" my USB input of the Qutest, which is my weakest point in the line, with several filters or reclockers and I have to admit that it is still far behind the optical input connected to my CD Transport.
> 
> Anyway, by chance I might obtain a Yarland Power Strip 8:
> http://www.soundundmovie.de/html/power_strip_8.html
> ...





iamalex said:


> I don't know that much about electricity, but what I have read about power conditioning it seems that even Class-D speaker amps can be plugged to a filtered outlet - so I guess it's mostly determined on the wattage your device draws if you have to use the filtered or the non-filtered outlet. BUT of course there are different takes on power filtering and some might do better with amps than others? - Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in
> 
> Best,
> Alex



Hi guys.

I don't profess to be any kind of expert on this subject of mains conditioning/filtering, but is indeed a rather murky one.

From my own researches these past few years, what I can say for sure however is that, as I have stressed many times, good results will only really be achieved by spending a fair bit of money...full stop!! With filtering, so much depends upon not only the quality of circuitry/components used, but also the actual _methods_ used. Lesser products can indeed seem to cause more problems than they solve lol! 
And so my advice is to do as much research as possible on different products, and hope to find enough reviews that can be trusted, from folks who seem to know what they're talking about!

OH...such as that Yarland strip doesn't fill me with much confidence, I'm afraid. The fact that they even make a disclaimer about the suitability of the filtered sections confirms them to be of said lesser quality, and therefore not worth the money IMHO! Much better to spend a (fair!) bit more in this area that usually proves worthwhile lol.

ps  Even using a couple of (good quality) multi adapters on a _good_ 2-socket unit would, I'm sure, give better results than such a strip...just my 2cents' worth...


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## OctavianH (Apr 9, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I don't profess to be any kind of expert on this subject of mains conditioning/filtering, but is indeed a rather murky one.
> 
> ...



Actually h1 I am not paying any cent for it. The whole story is as follows: I have a few things to sell posted on a local audio forum. One of the items is a pair of Grado SR325is which I never used and were stored for several years. A few days ago someone called me to ask if I am willing to give them in exchange for something from his collection and the only things which I would be able to use (because he has a lot of speaker related cables and accessories) were:
1) this YARLAND power distributor
2) a XINDAK PC-02 power cord
3) a pair of ATLAS Ecuator MkIII RCA-RCA interconnects
The guy agreed to give me all these 3 items in exchange for the headphones on which I paid many years ago around 400 EUR but now I guess their value is much lower.
Now, I know these are not quite something I need but I said they are of better use to me than that pair of Grado which, honestly, was a mistake to keep in my collection for years.
I am not sure if I will finalize this exchange, but I was thinking about it. At the moment my PC and also audio equipment from the headphone line are plugged in a APC surge protect like:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-Performance-SurgeArrest-PL8VT3-suppressor/dp/B005MNROQS
The idea was to split Audio/PC stuff in 2 separate distributors. Anyway, it seems that filtering with the wrong components might be worse than not filtering at all...


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Actually h1 I am not paying any cent for it. The whole story is as follows: I have a few things to sell posted on a local audio forum. One of the items is a pair of Grado SR325is which I never used and were stored for several years. A few days ago someone called me to ask if I am willing to give them in exchange for something from his collection and the only things which I would be able to use (because he has a lot of speaker related cables and accessories) were:
> 1) this YARLAND power distributor
> 2) a XINDAK PC-02 power cord
> 3) a pair of ATLAS Ecuator MkIII RCA-RCA interconnects
> ...



Hi OH.
I suppose really it all comes down to just how much you could get for your grados. Given the Furman Ac210 A E is only 195 euros from Thomann.de, for example ...which even with only 2x outlets might perhaps be sufficient for audio use (and depending on how @Scutey finds it!). Even this would be far more preferable conditioner/filter wise to the Yarland IMHO. As I mentioned before, it really isn't worth cutting too many corners in this area lol .


----------



## hypnos1

You know, guys, there are some days when spirits are lifted that bit further than usual. And today is one of those...especially when the hard (and expensive!) work of trying to get one's system right (not to mention judgment!) is vindicated by those who have much more experience in this hobby of ours...ie. one of the guys at Meze confirming to me that "Hugo2 + Euforia + Empyrean is indeed a match made in Heaven".

But I must admit this is probably much more down to good luck than management lol! ...Whatever, it's gratifying to know that at last I've hit the jackpot...(even if the wallet is still reeling!! ).


----------



## aqsw

Hey H1,

I have been looking for a totl close backed , and was negotiating on some Focal Stellias for when I get my income tax refund.
But, your praise of the Empyreams is starting to get me thinking of totl opens.


----------



## hypnos1

aqsw said:


> Hey H1,
> 
> I have been looking for a totl close backed , and was negotiating on some Focal Stellias for when I get my income tax refund.
> But, your praise of the Empyreams is starting to get me thinking of totl opens.



Hi aqsw...nice to hear from you.

These Empyreans really are turning out to be stupendous cans...more so especially as these would appear to be the first planars (or, rather "Isodynamic Hybrid Array" ones lol!) that OTLs can drive- certainly _our_ ones!! - just as well as they do high impedance headphones lol! . Which, as I mentioned previously, should come as no surprise really when Meze actually collaborated with F-A (and Euforia specifically) in regard to "soundwise" .
So I suppose it must come down to whether or not you _need_ closed cans . Probably your best source of info would be @teknorob23 , whom I can't thank enough for putting me on to these Empyreans and who said he would have gone for these like a shot, if for hearing reasons he hadn't had to go for closed cans...specifically the Stellias!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## iamalex

As to come back to the topic of power filtering (I didn't try any power regeneration) I also find it a good idea to stretch the price "a little" as h1 said and buy used, high quality goods from reputable seller, because the better quality filtering components seem to be almost "indestructible", if not thrown against a wall or such. I bought the DC-blocker Syncro Uni from Isotek and for a little more than half of the MSRP a used power-distributor/filter from Gigawatt (http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/gigawatt-pf-2-mk2/). I was interested in the DC-blocker because I've heard that in the (power-)chain the trafos would be considerably less warm and it should also deliver sound improvements, but I can't say much in this regard as my system is still burning-in  The power-distributor was bought because it seems to be a low-impact solution regarding the dynamics of the music and is built like a freaking tank. 

 
And I love that the weight (4.9kg or 10.8lb !) is high enough that you never have to worry that your cables move it around.


----------



## lentoviolento

this or elise?? someone could light my the way?


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## teknorob23 (Apr 11, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> this or elise?? someone could light my the way?



The answer’s simple, the Elise is the best amp you will have heard, until you listen the euforia, which is better in pretty much all departments. Then you won’t be able to unhear what you’ve heard and you’ll do whats required to buy the euforia.

The only way around this is to demo the elise somewhere that they dont have or sell the euforia. Sadly I couldn’t find such a place or exert the self control to avoid the inevitable


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 11, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> this or elise?? someone could light my the way?



Go for the "max" if you afford it otherwise you will likely want to upgrade again. Mostly all of the Euforia owners here prefer the Euforia over Elise since it provides better detail and a fuller sound.



iamalex said:


> As to come back to the topic of power filtering (I didn't try any power regeneration) I also find it a good idea to stretch the price "a little" as h1 said and buy used, high quality goods from reputable seller, because the better quality filtering components seem to be almost "indestructible", if not thrown against a wall or such. I bought the DC-blocker Syncro Uni from Isotek and for a little more than half of the MSRP a used power-distributor/filter from Gigawatt (http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/gigawatt-pf-2-mk2/). I was interested in the DC-blocker because I've heard that in the (power-)chain the trafos would be considerably less warm and it should also deliver sound improvements, but I can't say much in this regard as my system is still burning-in  The power-distributor was bought because it seems to be a low-impact solution regarding the dynamics of the music and is built like a freaking tank.
> 
> And I love that the weight (4.9kg or 10.8lb !) is high enough that you never have to worry that your cables move it around.



Coming back to this "power conditioning" topic, I have to say that I still keep my Elise into the Furman AC210A-E power conditioner and I consider it improves the sound.
However, reading what other people say, I have to admit that the topic is interesting and everyone says different things:


> An expensive power conditioner (a voltage regulator) may in fact damage your amp (or the sound at least) by clamping the amount of amperage the amp can draw. Tube amps can cause massive swings in the current draw at the wall which a true power conditioner will try and limit. This could affect the sound or cause problems which are probably best left to someone more knowledgeable to explain.
> 
> Personally, I'd trust the power supply circuitry in your head over essentially an expensive multiplug. I actually use a power distributor in my rack but it's purely for that reason - I'm not expecting it to save anything if there was an electrical problem, it's just handy to have all the sockets in the back.
> 
> To answer your original question: Tube amps don't need conditioners because they already contain sufficient protection circuitry in their power supplies. Also, being analogue, they aren't as susceptible to many issues that affect integrated devices as they can work over a more forgiving voltage range.



From my understanding, in theory, power amps which draw a lot of current need to be connected directly to the mains since these filters with capacitors might limit their instant current draw. And there is a big difference between "filtering" and "regenerating" types. Of course the regenerating ones are the best and also more expenssive, and theymight not suffer the limitations for simple filters. Now, hard to say if tube amps are in the same situation as the integrated power amps because I think the current they draw is much lower than what the others need to drive speakers and 4/8 Ohm stuff.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> Go for the "max" if you afford it otherwise you will likely want to upgrade again. Mostly all of the Euforia owners here prefer the Euforia over Elise since it provides better detail and a fuller sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Really interesting. I’ve decided to work from the wall supply in and swap out my cheaper Tacima blocks for a MCRU filtered 8 socket block, instead of one of the cheaper filtering units I’ve seen.  It seems to be a lot better value than Isotek and other bigger brand versions and everything I’ve had from them way outperforms it’s price. I can’t afford a regenerator which as you say looks like the best option, but hopefully with upgraded power cables running into everything, linear psu on the source and NUC server will prove to be a good interim solution. Who new mains power could be such a rabbit hole.... everyone except me probably! 

https://mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-no-79-mains-power-extension-hub/


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## OctavianH

This topic is complex and ignored by many. From what I see:
- some of the quality audio distributors have good wiring but do not provide protection
- Furman units provide protection and filtering but might have less outputs that one needs
- some people upgraded even the Euforia/Elise fuses with "audiophile" grade ones and claimed improvements (here I have no idea, but I remember I read about this in the past).
The truth is out there....


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi aqsw...nice to hear from you.
> 
> These Empyreans really are turning out to be stupendous cans...more so especially as these would appear to be the first planars (or, rather "Isodynamic Hybrid Array" ones lol!) that OTLs can drive- certainly _our_ ones!! - just as well as they do high impedance headphones lol! . Which, as I mentioned previously, should come as no surprise really when Meze actually collaborated with F-A (and Euforia specifically) in regard to "soundwise" .
> So I suppose it must come down to whether or not you _need_ closed cans . Probably your best source of info would be @teknorob23 , whom I can't thank enough for putting me on to these Empyreans and who said he would have gone for these like a shot, if for hearing reasons he hadn't had to go for closed cans...specifically the Stellias!! ...CHEERS!...CJ



Sorry i missed this, i think @hypnos1 is being very generous, i don’t think I’m the only one to have been caught in the celestial glare of the empyreans. I have however spent a few months this year demo’ing pretty much every CB available in the UK, none of which filled the performance void left  behind the by the best OBs I’d owned or heard, that is until the focal kindly launched the stellia, which in quick summary, offers a lot of the Utopias detail, resolution and dynamics, slightly thinner soundstage and less extended bass, but with a more
Natural tone and overall less agressive and fatiguing presentation. I’ve yet to find their limit in terms of scaling and they achieve an incredible balancing act of being an amazing transparent window on the component chain behind them while still managing to be addictively musical. Oh and they sound awesome with the hugo2 fed euforia. 

Let me know if there’s anything you can’t find to demo that I might have heard, I’d be happy help if I can


----------



## lentoviolento

teknorob23 said:


> The answer’s simple, the Elise is the best amp you will have heard, until you listen the euforia, which is better in pretty much all departments. Then you won’t be able to unhear what you’ve heard and you’ll do whats required to buy the euforia.
> 
> The only way around this is to demo the elise somewhere that they dont have or sell the euforia. Sadly I couldn’t find such a place or exert the self control to avoid the inevitable




Is that every where i read, it keeps coming up that elise is warmer and euforia is like a solid state... I don't want a tube amp sounding like a solid state.. Also i would rather not doing tube roll.... 
So the other question might be, which one is better with the stock tubes? 
Now i have the espressivo mk2 and i cant listen to anything else


----------



## teknorob23

lentoviolento said:


> Is that every where i read, it keeps coming up that elise is warmer and euforia is like a solid state... I don't want a tube amp sounding like a solid state.. Also i would rather not doing tube roll....
> So the other question might be, which one is better with the stock tubes?
> Now i have the espressivo mk2 and i cant listen to anything else



Obvs there’s users here with much more experience than me with the Elise, but i did demo it for 3 or 4 hours. I wouldn’t say it’s particularly warm and I think it has more in common with the Elise than it doesnt, it’s just the euforia does a bit more of everything. I went to the shop primarily to demo the Elise because of its reputation as not sounding stereotypically tube like. I was looking for something to add a bit more weight and slightlyn moisten the sound of my hugo2, but without losing any of its core attributes ie detail, dynamism and control. It delivered on all if this, but with added width/depth and texture through out the frequency range. It’s exaggeration to say i was blown away and would have bought it there and then, but there was the house with the swimming pool next door and I couldn’t resist. Stock tubes are better in the euforia, but even if your not into rolling they could be upgraded easily and cost effectively. Anyway the Elise as it is will be a considerable upgrade from your current amp... which I’m sure is also very good


----------



## lentoviolento

Unfortunatly i don't have shops where i can try them. 
You tell me that euforia is not too bright and doesn't sound like a SS? 
Also, just in case, would it be able to power let's say an audeze lcd3? 
Because i see in the specs that both elise and euforia has max power out put that is half the espressivo...


----------



## teknorob23

lentoviolento said:


> Unfortunatly i don't have shops where i can try them.
> You tell me that euforia is not too bright and doesn't sound like a SS?
> Also, just in case, would it be able to power let's say an audeze lcd3?
> Because i see in the specs that both elise and euforia has max power out put that is half the espressivo...



It has the best benefits of both ss and tubes. It will power the lcd3 no probs as it powers the lcd4 fine


----------



## lentoviolento

Lcd4? I thought that needed a nuclear plant to drive it... I an super curious now. My wallet is starting to sweat...


----------



## hypnos1

lentoviolento said:


> Lcd4? I thought that needed a nuclear plant to drive it... I an super curious now. My wallet is starting to sweat...



Hi lentov...and a belated welcome to our thread. 

Being the guy who first ventured the idea of an 'Elise' to Feliks-Audio, but then felt it was capable of a good bit more - hence the Euforia! - I suppose I'm somewhat biased!!. But I can assure you that, as others have mentioned, as soon as I heard Euforia I just _knew_ this was a different animal to my beloved Elise...and _nothing like_ (affordable!) solid state lol!! Unless you mean excellent speed; clarity; good extension at both ends of the FR; solid 'grip' and control of sound delivery...and that's for starters . Plus other tube 'goodies' that you obviously recognise already. Add on a wonderful soundstage - which will, like other aspects, depend to a certain degree on the tubes used of course - and this is indeed a special amp. It also delivers a much 'bigger' sound overall than Elise, and its upgraded components will surely help this amp scale much better, in line with any upgrades made to the rest of one's system.

As already stated, if funds permit, it does therefore represent the 'better' buy, rather than perhaps later on feeling something is 'missing' and regretting not going the extra mile in the first place! 

I know this decision is easier said than done, but I wish you all the best in whichever direction you decide to go...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

iamalex said:


> As to come back to the topic of power filtering (I didn't try any power regeneration) I also find it a good idea to stretch the price "a little" as h1 said and buy used, high quality goods from reputable seller, because the better quality filtering components seem to be almost "indestructible", if not thrown against a wall or such. I bought the DC-blocker Syncro Uni from Isotek and for a little more than half of the MSRP a used power-distributor/filter from Gigawatt (http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/gigawatt-pf-2-mk2/). I was interested in the DC-blocker because I've heard that in the (power-)chain the trafos would be considerably less warm and it should also deliver sound improvements, but I can't say much in this regard as my system is still burning-in  The power-distributor was bought because it seems to be a low-impact solution regarding the dynamics of the music and is built like a freaking tank.
> 
> And I love that the weight (4.9kg or 10.8lb !) is high enough that you never have to worry that your cables move it around.



Hi Alex.

Interesting bits of gear you have there...and we look forward  to your findings as time goes by....well done!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry i missed this, i think @hypnos1 is being very generous, i don’t think I’m the only one to have been caught in the celestial glare of the empyreans. I have however spent a few months this year demo’ing pretty much every CB available in the UK, none of which filled the performance void left  behind the by the best OBs I’d owned or heard, that is until the focal kindly launched the stellia, which in quick summary, offers a lot of the Utopias detail, resolution and dynamics, slightly thinner soundstage and less extended bass, but with a more
> Natural tone and overall less agressive and fatiguing presentation. I’ve yet to find their limit in terms of scaling and they achieve an incredible balancing act of being an amazing transparent window on the component chain behind them while still managing to be addictively musical. Oh and they sound awesome with the hugo2 fed euforia.
> 
> Let me know if there’s anything you can’t find to demo that I might have heard, I’d be happy help if I can



Hi trob...and thanks for your input on this subject.

You certainly make the Stellias sound very attractive indeed...much more so than the Senn HD820 seem to be proving lol!  I could almost be tempted myself, but I'm first and foremost a die hard fan of _open_ cans, and will probably always stay that way!!...(especially now my Empyreans have burned in some more...surprising how these too need a fair while to reach their best!).

But I'm so glad the Focals have proved just right for you. 

Now then @aqsw , it looks like you could well be in a bit of a dilemna here - stay 'open', or go closed lol!!? If I were you I'd try my hardest to demo them...the only real way you're gonna know for sure, of course! Either that or convince the taxman you're owed a whole packet in past overpayments...and buy _both!!!_ 

Looking forward to your decision...and eventual findings...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## lentoviolento

hypnos1 said:


> Hi lentov...and a belated welcome to our thread.
> 
> Being the guy who first ventured the idea of an 'Elise' to Feliks-Audio, but then felt it was capable of a good bit more - hence the Euforia! - I suppose I'm somewhat biased!!. But I can assure you that, as others have mentioned, as soon as I heard Euforia I just _knew_ this was a different animal to my beloved Elise...and _nothing like_ (affordable!) solid state lol!! Unless you mean excellent speed; clarity; good extension at both ends of the FR; solid 'grip' and control of sound delivery...and that's for starters . Plus other tube 'goodies' that you obviously recognise already. Add on a wonderful soundstage - which will, like other aspects, depend to a certain degree on the tubes used of course - and this is indeed a special amp. It also delivers a much 'bigger' sound overall than Elise, and its upgraded components will surely help this amp scale much better, in line with any upgrades made to the rest of one's system.
> 
> ...




I asked feliks and he also said that elise is warmer and more tubey sounding.. Actually it seems the way to go on paper, but you all are telling me to jump directly to euforia. 
I don't know what to do... I could afford elise right now, for euforia i have to wait a little more, sell some stuff.. Tough choices!! Thx for your impressions


----------



## hypnos1

Hey @OctavianH ...the subject of mains conditioning/filtering is indeed a contentious one...lots of different opinions out there.

Perhaps with _very_ power hungry (power) amps, the 'constriction' effect might possibly cause a problem for some..._perhaps_. It will, of course, depend on the unit's mode of operation. 

But the whole point of _good_ conditioning and filtering has nothing to do with the protection circuitry that may be in the amp itself per se (but usually does also have surge/spike protection), but an attempt to remove/minimise the 'noise' inherent in all mains electricity supplies, along with any (RFI/EMI) that the main cable may pick up en route to one's equipment. This is where cost comes in. 'Cheap' units are less likely to do a good job of such filtering and, possibly, also be 'choking' the electricity supply to the point where it can indeed reduce 'dynamics' in one's hifi gear. This is where good research of others' findings is really advisable, if at all possible lol!  This is what led me first to a PowerInspired Regenerator (recommended by a fellow member), and then to the AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains Conditioner...again recommended by a fellow member at a local meet some years back...(but was enticed by the much more expensive unit with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filtering System, which others seemed to back up the recommendation of AT themselves lol! And have no regrets...).

So all I can say is..._do your research_...and be prepared to spend a bit of money!! ...(preferably on a no obligation demo if possible!).


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @OctavianH ...the subject of mains conditioning/filtering is indeed a contentious one...lots of different opinions out there.
> 
> Perhaps with _very_ power hungry (power) amps, the 'constriction' effect might possibly cause a problem for some..._perhaps_. It will, of course, depend on the unit's mode of operation.
> 
> ...



the more i read the less i feel i know about mains set ups. I would find it really useful if you'd be willing that is @hypnos1 if you could list the chain of mains components between the wall and source equipment rob


----------



## Madhyamika

lentoviolento said:


> I asked feliks and he also said that elise is warmer and more tubey sounding.. Actually it seems the way to go on paper, but you all are telling me to jump directly to euforia.
> I don't know what to do... I could afford elise right now, for euforia i have to wait a little more, sell some stuff.. Tough choices!! Thx for your impressions




I’ll speak up as a very happy Elise owner with CD/Hi-res files through a Schiit Yggdrasil and Focal Elex headphones. I haven’t heard Euforia, but I’m so happy with my Elise that I don’t feel like I need to upgrade, especially on my limited musician’s income. If money were no object, I’d of course also try Euforia to see how it compares, but for now I feel like nothing is missing for me in my setup with Elise. Blissful ignorance I guess! Stock tubes are great, and I’m a little happier still with a quad of adapted EL38s, discovered thanks to kind advice from Hypnos1, Connieflyer and others here on this forum and over on the Elise thread. 

Either way, I’m sure you will love listening to music through one of these amps. 
-Jay


----------



## lentoviolento

I was also thinking about upgrading in "steps".. Buying elise now(it would take 4 weeks minimum to build) and after i used it for sometime, eventually taking the euforia..
Because honestly i am curious to try them both .
Feliks also told me that he is preparing an euforia limited edition, with better components and better looking... Very tempting but out of my range


----------



## iamalex

lentoviolento said:


> I was also thinking about upgrading in "steps".. Buying elise now(it would take 4 weeks minimum to build) and after i used it for sometime, eventually taking the euforia..
> Because honestly i am curious to try them both .
> Feliks also told me that he is preparing an euforia limited edition, with better components and better looking... Very tempting but out of my range



What I discovered is that used Feliks amps often go for only some more than half of the RRP  So, even if it's kind of "elite-thinking" to always reach to the top (of-the-line-product), I'd also go for the Euforia _now_ rather than later, provided you like it more - otherwise go with the Elise and save some money  Or you could save some more, go for the Euforia limited and make ALL OF US envy you


----------



## iamalex

..but I would be very interested in your evaluation of the Euforia against the Elise, lento


----------



## lentoviolento

iamalex said:


> ..but I would be very interested in your evaluation of the Euforia against the Elise, lento



Eheh 2700eur is a price i really can't pay... 
Feliks would take my espressivo back and i would pay the difference. 
For now i can say that espressivo is the best amp i have ever tried and i had a lot(not totl but midfi like violectric v200, audio gd nfb1, gilmore lite mk2, ifi, mojo etc). Also, i liked that espressivo has a little more power.. But this morning a fellow headfier said that euforia is powerful enough to drive even lcd4... I couldn't believe it..


----------



## iamalex

lentoviolento said:


> Eheh 2700eur is a price i really can't pay...
> Feliks would take my espressivo back and i would pay the difference.
> For now i can say that espressivo is the best amp i have ever tried and i had a lot(not totl but midfi like violectric v200, audio gd nfb1, gilmore lite mk2, ifi, mojo etc). Also, i liked that espressivo has a little more power.. But this morning a fellow headfier said that euforia is powerful enough to drive even lcd4... I couldn't believe it..



I often envy the people that can acquire something and just be happy with it for a good amount of time, I really do. But a generous offer from Feliks nonetheless, and maybe you can use it for an Elise or Euforia non-limited(?). I followed the conversation of some Stellaris owners that before owned a Stratus describing the difference between the two amps, and some said the differences were minor, and others said the differences were absolutely obvious. And there the price doubles from the Stratus' $3000 to the Stellaris' $6600 (!)


----------



## lentoviolento

iamalex said:


> I often envy the people that can acquire something and just be happy with it for a good amount of time, I really do. But a generous offer from Feliks nonetheless, and maybe you can use it for an Elise or Euforia non-limited(?). I followed the conversation of some Stellaris owners that before owned a Stratus describing the difference between the two amps, and some said the differences were minor, and others said the differences were absolutely obvious. And there the price doubles from the Stratus' $3000 to the Stellaris' $6600 (!)




i really envy them too. but unfortunatly i am not one of them. i get the upgrade fever easily. also because feliks is so tempting.
i wouldn't be tempted by us products... too expensive shipping costs, custom fees, waiting list (i contacted donald from dna just for curiosity, it would take 10 months to build). mogwai, pendant, glenn etc..
i read something about this amps and i would love to try them but here in italy is impossible.
so feliks is the only way to go.


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 12, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> Eheh 2700eur is a price i really can't pay...
> Feliks would take my espressivo back and i would pay the difference.
> For now i can say that espressivo is the best amp i have ever tried and i had a lot(not totl but midfi like violectric v200, audio gd nfb1, gilmore lite mk2, ifi, mojo etc). Also, i liked that espressivo has a little more power.. But this morning a fellow headfier said that euforia is powerful enough to drive even lcd4... I couldn't believe it..



Do they have a customer upgrade program? My Elise has 13 months and I will not buy a new F.A. amp unless I sell it. With an upgrade program I might be tempted, of course, if the new anniversary edition will not cost double...


----------



## lentoviolento

I bought espressivo 3 weeks ago... 
You can always ask..  The euforia LE is 2700 though..


----------



## OctavianH

2700 EUR are a lot of money only for "better components and better looking". But let's wait for the specs...


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> 2700 EUR are a lot of money only for "better components and better looking". But let's wait for the specs...



Didn't think the 'Anniversary Edition' was going to be quite that much more, I must admit lol. Much will depend of course upon just what the upgrades are, but hope at least to soon have photos of the glossy 'piano black' finish to share. Should at least be interesting! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I just emailed them to find out more, hope they are in a position to respond with specs


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> the more i read the less i feel i know about mains set ups. I would find it really useful if you'd be willing that is @hypnos1 if you could list the chain of mains components between the wall and source equipment rob



Hi trob.

Well, starting at the wall(!), I use an *un*switched socket - a 3-way one, actually....(switches are best eliminated wherever possible).

Then a good quality single 6 feet mains cable runs to the PowerInspired Regenerator in my equipment stand (this cable doesn't really need to be _too_ fancy/expensive, so long as well shielded...the better power cords come later in the chain!). I am in fact now using the one that came with my Naim UnitiCore, but still very good (and ridiculously expensive now to buy separate!).

From there a really good power cord, made using Neotech's UP-OCC hybrid mains cable, feeds the AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains/Filter Unit, which then feeds all my equipment via its 6 integrated outlets, again using said Neotech cable and Wattgate plugs. 

I also use upgraded fuses throughout...especially in the first plug from the wall supply. I haven't yet done a full and proper assessment as to their merits or otherwise, but logically it doesn't make much sense to me to use rather expensive cables and mains treatments only to run the power supply through rubbish pieces of wire lol!!  I like to think of it as _insurance_... minimising 'weak links' in the chain, and peace of mind. Plus, I'm a firm believer in 'the whole being greater than the sum of the parts', even if _singly_, positive effects are not obvious ....CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Didn't think the 'Anniversary Edition' was going to be quite that much more, I must admit lol. Much will depend of course upon just what the upgrades are, but hope at least to soon have photos of the glossy 'piano black' finish to share. Should at least be interesting! ...CJ





connieflyer said:


> I just emailed them to find out more, hope they are in a position to respond with specs



I've messaged them too on facebook about specs, retro upgrades, etc. I expect they've had a few more similar enquiries, but that they should hopefully understand what information like this does to sufferers of the condition a lot of us on hear share


----------



## hypnos1

lentoviolento said:


> i really envy them too. but unfortunatly i am not one of them. i get the upgrade fever easily. also because feliks is so tempting.
> i wouldn't be tempted by us products... too expensive shipping costs, custom fees, waiting list (i contacted donald from dna just for curiosity, it would take 10 months to build). mogwai, pendant, glenn etc..
> i read something about this amps and i would love to try them but here in italy is impossible.
> *so feliks is the only way to go*.



Ah well, lentov...take comfort in the fact they do make *exceedingly good amps lol!!* ...good luck with your eventual (difficult) choice......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ps @lentoviolento ...I've just had a mini(?!!) brainwave....if you go for the Elise, you could add to the difference and spoil yourself to a pair of Meze Empyreans lol! . I can assure you these amazing cans will bring _far_ greater improvements than spending the equivalent on any other amp you care to name..._without question!!_ ...(I hear yet another bank manager breathing heavy sighs !...)...

ps. I feel your pain lol......


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob.
> 
> Well, starting at the wall(!), I use an *un*switched socket - a 3-way one, actually....(switches are best eliminated wherever possible).
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks thats really useful info. My biggest problem is a lack of space. We've moved to small cottage but with larger "small boys friendly" garden, we're going to extend the cottage quite drastically but probably not until next year. When that happens i will have a dedicated spur installed to wherever my hifi and I are allowed live , but until then we're all in the living room of which i have a corner. At the moment theres nowhere for a regen box to live, but i might be able to squeeze a balanced mains unit in. I guess first question is do you think theres benefit in this + good mains cables, but  without having the regenerator, more so say than a really good fitler/mains block & power cables

I have been speaking to Nene Valley audio and they seem to think it would give a significant improvement even without a regen box (they would probably say this wouldn't they?), as they have a 6 socket "mini-BMU" which is disconcertingly cheap £275, but which is also pretty compact (25 x 23 x 7cm)..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-Mini...078076?hash=item521810e2bc:g:JpYAAOSwwPtcYIkI

.. they offer a 30 day money back trial and also give the the full paid price back against upgrading to its bigger brother £550...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-BMU-...255941?hash=item52176bc0c5:g:ztoAAOSwvapcTvCI

They were recommended to me in another forum, but i wandered if you had come across them? I also can only seem to find 3 socket versions of the airlink BMUs. 

Sorry i'm dragging as even further off topic, but i thought it might be a good distraction what with all this unsettling talk of limit editions in the air


----------



## lentoviolento

hypnos1 said:


> ps @lentoviolento ...I've just had a mini(?!!) brainwave....if you go for the Elise, you could add to the difference and spoil yourself to a pair of Meze Empyreans lol! . I can assure you these amazing cans will bring _far_ greater improvements than spending the equivalent on any other amp you care to name..._without question!!_ ...(I hear yet another bank manager breathing heavy sighs !...)...
> 
> ps. I feel your pain lol......



Empyrean costs about 2600eur... Also i had verite and lcd3 on order.... I will see in future. Consider that i had ether2 and the guy i sold them to said that he consider ether2 and verite superior to meze... I don't know what to think about this meze...


----------



## teknorob23

lentoviolento said:


> Empyrean costs about 2600eur... Also i had verite and lcd3 on order.... I will see in future. Consider that i had ether2 and the guy i sold them to said that he consider ether2 and verite superior to meze... I don't know what to think about this meze...



I guess that shows is all about personal preferences and there aren't many bad headphones out there (except HD820  ) when you get up towards TOTL levels.. that and he's obviously wrong!!


----------



## lentoviolento

teknorob23 said:


> I guess that shows is all about personal preferences and there aren't many bad headphones out there (except HD820  ) when you get up towards TOTL levels.. that and he's obviously wrong!!




Did you try them?


----------



## teknorob23

lentoviolento said:


> Did you try them?



Sorry i was being intentionally obtuse, its been a long Friday afternoon working

i have heard the Ether 2's but not the Verite. I really liked the Ether 2, although they have a very different signature to the Meze, much leaner, faster with a more neutral presentation and they're probably the most comfortable headphones i've tried. I've heard the rest of the ZMF range, none of which really did anything for me, sounding somewhere between the Fostex which are just too studio sounding for me, and the LCDs which i really like in open back form. The verite are supposed to be quite a leap forward and i would love to hear them. That said and i'm totally ready to eat my words, i will be very surprised if they can hold a light to the Empyreans. I say this because i had the LCD4z's which i thought were right up there with the best ive heard, but one demo of the Meze and they instantly jumped out as something special. One of those few moments in Hifi where you stop in your tracks, forget about the kit and just start rattling through your music collection. Doesnt happen very often and i think last time for me was when i heard the first Chord Hugo. 

Shame i've got rubbish left ear and owning OBs arent an option anymore, thank god for Euforia/Hugo2/Stellia!


----------



## lentoviolento

In the future i will surely buy them, i am very curious. Also, experience taught me that the money spent on headphones are better than the money spent on amps/dacs. I got mad in the last year trying a ton of dacs, i ended with an smsl su8 and i won't change it until it explodes


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## hypnos1 (Apr 12, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> Empyrean costs about 2600eur... Also i had verite and lcd3 on order.... I will see in future. Consider that i had ether2 and the guy i sold them to said that he consider ether2 and verite superior to meze... I don't know what to think about this meze...



Hi again lv.

Must admit, I don't think many out there would rate the Ether2 as superior lol! ...but different strokes...etc. etc.

As for the Verite, that would appear to be  a closer thing. And it will need a lot more _independent(?!!)_ reviews/comparisons yet before a clearer, more reliable picture emerges. One thing I myself have gleaned so far is that the ZMFs could possibly be the kind of gear that gives an initial 'WOW' impression, differently to how the Empyreans start out.

Once properly burned in - and it takes far longer than I would have expected from headphones! - the Mezes begin to develop their qualities and credentials more gradually and more subtly. And in such a way that, as others more experienced with hi-end cans than I have stated, you begin to realise that what may have seemed to be 'missing' or underperforming _is actually there_. The presentation is so beautifully balanced and _smooth_ that nothing really _shouts_ at you, but blending together in a way that is both understated and then surprisingly revelatory. Which is what I much prefer in _any_ piece of hifi gear lol . Add on the fact that this deceiving ability applies across different music genres, and you have a set of cans that are extremely versatile and which, more importantly, allow for prolonged listening sessions of even 'difficult' music...an attractive (and not very common) quality to be sure......And so the saga continues...(or should that be _dilemna!!_).


----------



## Scutey

Hi guys, wow,it's all been kicking off this week!. A combination of illness and having to be very busy has laid me low every evening this week, so no listening, or shock horror, not even a visit to Head-Fi, not even just to read! . Hey @teknorob23  finally got around to trying the Furman for an hour last night, and more especially this eve (MCRU iec cable finally arrived after nearly two weeks), well it's definitely made a difference, it has noticeably cleared up the sound, all aspects have improved, I won't go into too many specifics but anything you would want to be improved by the Furman have been, especially clarity, transparency, overall dynamics and micro details, for instance, just finished listening to Dark Side Of The Moon for the several hundredth time, and it's the best I've ever heard it, right at the very end of the last track in the distance you hear the Beatles song Ticket to Ride playing, never heard that before!, I would say the Furman is a good budget option, it's very well made and has a small footprint, if space is a problem, so if you're after a mains conditioner at a reasonable cost, it's worth a look.


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## DecentLevi (Apr 12, 2019)

@Scutey congrats on finding something to up the quality even more. Sounds like it must be amazing. I've been considering power conditioning for a while and will probably be on board too after I get a place and set up shop again so to speak. Furman also has many great options for power conditioner units with more outlets and for 120v, which is what I would go with. I would need at least 5 outlets...

Just did a little reading on the Furman website and I believe I've found my 'baby'! This one seems like the true deal, even affordable and specific for amps - *must read*: 
https://www.furmanpower.com/product/15a-prestige-power-conditioner-w-power-factor-technology-P-1800 PFR _(for 120v)_

And I wonder if there's any benefit of plugging a power conditioner into any other filtration like one of these filtered power strips?


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Hi guys, wow,it's all been kicking off this week!. A combination of illness and having to be very busy has laid me low every evening this week, so no listening, or shock horror, not even a visit to Head-Fi, not even just to read! . Hey @teknorob23  finally got around to trying the Furman for an hour last night, and more especially this eve (MCRU iec cable finally arrived after nearly two weeks), well it's definitely made a difference, it has noticeably cleared up the sound, all aspects have improved, I won't go into too many specifics but anything you would want to be improved by the Furman have been, especially clarity, transparency, overall dynamics and micro details, for instance, just finished listening to Dark Side Of The Moon for the several hundredth time, and it's the best I've ever heard it, right at the very end of the last track in the distance you hear the Beatles song Ticket to Ride playing, never heard that before!, I would say the Furman is a good budget option, it's very well made and has a small footprint, if space is a problem, so if you're after a mains conditioner at a reasonable cost, it's worth a look.



Sorry to hear real life has been keeping you away from the really important things in life! but exciting to hear the furman has made such a difference. Can I ask which components you have plugged into it apart from the euforia?


----------



## teknorob23 (Apr 13, 2019)

I've heard back from FA re the Anniversary Edition:

_"Will have new up occ cabling inside, new trafo and capacitors. Outside will have new finish in high gloss black. No really way to retrofit to regular euforia."
_
Not sure about gloss black. I love the Matt finish feels way more premium. Tech bits sound interesting though.


----------



## OctavianH

Glossy means "shinny"? Hmm... in the same chassis?


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Wow, thanks thats really useful info. My biggest problem is a lack of space. We've moved to small cottage but with larger "small boys friendly" garden, we're going to extend the cottage quite drastically but probably not until next year. When that happens i will have a dedicated spur installed to wherever my hifi and I are allowed live , but until then we're all in the living room of which i have a corner. At the moment theres nowhere for a regen box to live, but i might be able to squeeze a balanced mains unit in. I guess first question is do you think theres benefit in this + good mains cables, but  without having the regenerator, more so say than a really good fitler/mains block & power cables
> 
> I have been speaking to Nene Valley audio and they seem to think it would give a significant improvement even without a regen box (they would probably say this wouldn't they?), as they have a 6 socket "mini-BMU" which is disconcertingly cheap £275, but which is also pretty compact (25 x 23 x 7cm)..
> 
> ...



Hi trob. 

Choices, choices...this is going to be a difficult one methinks lol!

Don't know anything about NVA I'm afraid...but he certainly seems to be a rather controversial character!!  I should think one would need to try and find as much feedback on his gear as possible lol! 

As for AirlinkTransformers...they do seem to have a better reputation at least, but it looks like you would need as a minimum the CBS2000 - 240 (£392), at 8.6A current output draw as opposed to the CBS1500 (£352) at 6.5A, which also appears to be optimised for 230V input as opposed to 240V. Both only 3 outlets, but I'm sure a couple of good quality doublers would be fine, so long as power rating per socket is adhered to! But these units are very 'industrial' looking, big and heavy...so you'd need to check all the measurements lol! 

@Scutey 's Furman sounds very encouraging as a more budget-friendly option, plus neater and more space saving....decisions, decisions...

What I would say is that I personally found that a Balanced Mains (Conditioning) Unit doesn't really need a regenerator before it...especially if it's input is set for our (very variable!) 240V. I only use mine because I got it before the AT unit, and don't want to give it away lol!!

So GOOD LUCK with your eventual choice, mon ami! 

ps. @DecentLevi ...looks to me like your 'baby' is intended more for powerful needs, such as a guitar rather than ours lol!! . And I'm sure the filtration in Scutey's unit is probably better than in a strip, so I don't honestly think there'd be any gains.... Further gains would no doubt come from @connieflyer 's higher level Furman unit!!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 13, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> I've heard back from FA re the Anniversary Edition:
> 
> _"Will have new up occ cabling inside, new trafo and capacitors. Outside will have new finish in high gloss black. No really way to retrofit to regular euforia."
> _
> Not sure about gloss black. I love the Matt finish feels way more premium. Tech bits sound interesting though.



Am glad F-A took my advice re. UP-OCC wire, and a better trafo is always very welcome of course!...(not that the current one is any slouch lol ). And some folks also swear by the performance increase of upgraded capacitors. So would indeed prove very interesting if a proper A/B comparison could be made in one's system...but I don't think many folks are gonna find that very practical alas (me included, especially as my headphones _and_ Hugo2 are umbilically attached to my current Euforia!!! ).



OctavianH said:


> Glossy means "shinny"? Hmm... in the same chassis?



Hi OH...shiny as the black gloss on a Steinway or Bosendorfer concert piano, I should imagine!...and either  or , depending on your tastes lol!! It'll be very interesting to see just how it looks in this livery, as opposed to the understated matt finish...(_might_ just look a $million??!!...especially if they can mimic beautiful Japanese black lacquer ).

ps. Same chassis I believe...


----------



## iamalex

hypnos1 said:


> Am glad F-A took my advice re. UP-OCC wire, and a better trafo is always very welcome of course!...(not that the current one is any slouch lol ). And some folks also swear by the performance increase of upgraded capacitors. So would indeed prove very interesting if a proper A/B comparison could be made in one's system...but I don't think many folks are gonna find that very practical alas (me included, especially as my headphones _and_ Hugo2 are umbilically attached to my current Euforia!!! ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think at F-A they are well aware that many folks love the _current _matt finish, but probably - as an entrepreneur - something new is something interesting  And tastes differ so dramatically(!)


----------



## teknorob23

I asked them what we could expect in In terms SQ,

_“Sound quality - micro dynamics and trebles is where we expect biggest gains to be heard in real life. Ive listened to prototype and liked it a lot. Keep watching this space (our page/website), soon to be announced ”_

Price is not confirmed but likely to be 30-35% premium over the standard version


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob.
> 
> Choices, choices...this is going to be a difficult one methinks lol!
> 
> ...



Thanks @hypnos1, my hifi and I have a lot to thank you for. I think i will probably go with the airlink option as it’s working so well for you. Thanks again, I love this thread, I’ve learnt more in a couple of months than i have in the last 10 years!


----------



## Scutey

DecentLevi said:


> @Scutey congrats on finding something to up the quality even more. Sounds like it must be amazing. I've been considering power conditioning for a while and will probably be on board too after I get a place and set up shop again so to speak. Furman also has many great options for power conditioner units with more outlets and for 120v, which is what I would go with. I would need at least 5 outlets...
> 
> Just did a little reading on the Furman website and I believe I've found my 'baby'! This one seems like the true deal, even affordable and specific for amps - *must read*:
> https://www.furmanpower.com/product/15a-prestige-power-conditioner-w-power-factor-technology-P-1800 PFR _(for 120v)_
> ...


Thanks DL. Decided on it after reading @OctavianH  excellent review from a few months ago which finally swayed me to give it a go. Not sure if it's fully burned in yet, improvements aren't spectacular but are noticeable, the sound is definitely cleaner than before, a worthwhile investment imo, also P-1800 PFR looks quite an impressive piece of kit .


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry to hear real life has been keeping you away from the really important things in life! but exciting to hear the furman has made such a difference. Can I ask which components you have plugged into it apart from the euforia?


Hi rob, at the mo just the amp, there's two output ports, strangely the power lead into is kept in place by a metal clip that's screwed into the back, probably today or tomorrow I'll unscrew it and try my MCRU no 75 mains cable to see if that offers anymore improvement. Another part of the chain which might be improved might be a new mains block to plug the Furman into, this looks promising.

https://mcru.co.uk/product/audiophile-mains-block-silver-plated/?v=79cba1185463


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## OctavianH (Apr 14, 2019)

Since we are again talking about filtering, protection and power distribution, which have become a concern to me after some upgrades which revealed to me that I was spending too much on audio gear without preparing properly the environment, after reading a lot I have found some really interesting products. And since there companies are new to me, I will share them to you, maybe you know more about them.

1) Audioplan in Germany  - these guys have a product called FineFilter SIII which some guys here locally claim it is really incredible. It does provide only 1 output but it might be a good addition to a decent quality power distributor:
https://www.audioplan.de/mainspower-en/finefilter-en/finefilter-siii/?lang=en

2) Kemp Elektroniks in Netherlands - these guys have a product called Power Strip 4 which is a power distributor with filtering and protection which comes shipped with a decent power cord with a variable length of your choice:
https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/line-conditioners/shunt-conditioners/power-strip.html

I read about this Power Strip and also about the SNS filter which is built in, then took a look at the cable and wiring and so on and I decided to try one of these. This does not mean I'll remove the Furman, it means that I will use a separate power socket for Audio, move to this one the Furman and the headphone line equipment and keep on the old one the PC and other stuff I have in my room. I'll come back with pictures and details about it when it will arrive.

You can see here some "inside" stuff about it, seems a decent distribution device:
https://www.technologyfactory.eu/en/kemp-elektroniks/power-strips/kemp-power-strip-4/a-2483-10000532


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## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Hi rob, at the mo just the amp, there's two output ports, strangely the power lead into is kept in place by a metal clip that's screwed into the back, probably today or tomorrow I'll unscrew it and try my MCRU no 75 mains cable to see if that offers anymore improvement. Another part of the chain which might be improved might be a new mains block to plug the Furman into, this looks promising.
> 
> https://mcru.co.uk/product/audiophile-mains-block-silver-plated/?v=79cba1185463



The furman sounds really interesting, but i think the lack of uk plug sockets and enough of them means it probably wont work for me, so at the moment i am looking at

I think i'm going to DIY my power cables with Viablue X-40 Silver mains cable/ MS Power IEC & 3 Pins, so one of these from the wall into NVA BMU Mini 6 socket (at 275, small footprint, with money back guarantee and despite the polarising company owner, makes it look worth a punt, because the airlink BMU with VAT is coming out at £500ish...."buy crap, buy twice is ringing in my ears , then VIablue DIY out into Euforia, SoTM SPS 500 PSU (into streamer), Intel NUC ROON Server with Hugo2 also plugged in by its existing power supply. 

If the NVA Mini BMU doesnt work out then i'll go to the Airlink. Only other longterm tweaks might be adding a Linear 19v PSU to the NUC and when space allows a regenerator at the beginning of the chain.

I'm about to be parted from euforia, as i'm off to Catalonia (Which is Definitely not Spain  ) for week to see my inlaws, This is where the H2 earns its portable stripes and i will be squeezing the Stellia into my camera bag too. While i'm away, taking advantage of the wall-to-wall family childcare, i will hopefully have plenty of time to change my mind over the choice of power cable. I dont really want to spend more than £30-40 per metre, but if anyone has any thoughts cable, i'm all ears


----------



## angpsi

Hi guys, just a heads up, especially for newcomers in the land of Elise/Euforia: I just revived my old sleeper ad to sell my 6sn7/6080 tubes collection. Tubes are all professionally double-checked for consistency and life span, bundle price is a good bargain for anyone looking to get a solid set of tubes all at once, but also feel free to hit me with requests. For reviews on these tubes see the first post on this thread.

Good to be lurking back into the old neighborhood, hope I find all of you in good health and high spirit!


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## DecentLevi (Apr 15, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob.
> 
> ...
> ps. @DecentLevi ...looks to me like your 'baby' is intended more for powerful needs, such as a guitar rather than ours lol!! . And I'm sure the filtration in Scutey's unit is probably better than in a strip, so I don't honestly think there'd be any gains.... Further gains would no doubt come from @connieflyer 's higher level Furman unit!!...CHEERS!...CJ


About the Furman P1800 PFR


I'm not exactly sure it's a lower model than @connieflyer 's ELITE-15 DM I (below) which is actually less than 1/2 the price of this one. But I've decided not to go with this one anyway because of what you said and a few bad reviews about it buzzing. Interestingly though, the above seems to be made specificially for audio (though maybe not for headphone amps), and CF's one seems to be more focused on video.

CF what can you tell me about any sonic difference you've noticed from your unit? And wouldn't it risk overloading a circuit if one were to plug in 15 components into one connection? Looks other users have reviewed this as improving the sound for home stereo systems too.


Or who knows, it may be that @OctavianH could be onto something with their modular approach using the compact, cheaper 2 outlet Furman AC210A-E connected to a mains monoblock, which I think is AKA power distributor.

But for me, I need 5 sockets: Euforia, Euforia external transformer, DAC + two USB 'decrapifiers': Schiit Wyrd, Singxer SU-1.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 15, 2019)

Interestingly though the only Furman model that is listed in both "studio" _and _"audiophile" use is their IT-REF 15I unit, costing around the same as the Euforia itself, and 4x heavier than the above at nearly 60lbs. Looks impressive under the hood though, 'I'm not gonna lie'


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## OctavianH (Apr 15, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> About the Furman P1800 PFR
> Or who knows, it may be that @OctavianH could be onto something with their modular approach using the compact, cheaper 2 outlet Furman AC210A-E connected to a mains monoblock, which I think is AKA power distributor.
> 
> But for me, I need 5 sockets: Euforia, Euforia external transformer, DAC + two USB 'decrapifiers': Schiit Wyrd, Singxer SU-1.



After many hours of reading and deciding, I went for this small Furman AC210A-E (220V version, "E" means export so most probably you need the one without "E" which works at 110V) and a Kemp Power Strip 4. In this way I will have 5 plugs. I will plug in the Kemp the Furman (which has in it my CXC and Elise), the LPS for DAC, my Beyerdynamic A2 amp and I will keep the the remaining output for a USB decrapifier (I use now ISO Regen but might switch to iFi iUSB3.0) or maybe the other DAC I use which is a cheap audio-gd NFB11.32.

I know it does not sound "professional" but you might use 3 x Furman AC210A-E and group your devices by categories (or power usage, since this unit has only 10A). In this way you can power off a part of the line via it's on on/off switch based on demand and still be much under the price of a "pro" unit...

I will come back with impressions related to the Kemp Power Strip when it will arive. It might take some time because of the Easter Holidays.

*And a stupid question related to phase*: How do I know to match the Phase of the Power strip with my Shuko connector of a connected device? For the wall outlet it is simple to measure 220V between one of the holes and ground and to check if the other hole and ground has near to 0V.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 15, 2019)

Hey @OctavianH that will be super to hear your impressions of any difference those conditioners make - even if the difference is not 'super', just tell it like you hear it. Especially compare whether or not the added power strip makes a difference, I'm guessing it will in conjunction with the compact Furman unit but not with the large elite versions.

Wow, look at how silly we must look now to the average iPhone + *wireless earbud* consumer when they get a load of us comparing the sonic difference a *power strip* makes in the chain! 

For me now I'm still a spectator until I get a place where I can set up my rig again. Hopefully soon! Also Octavian, I visited Romania for a month last summer. I found it to have a very historic and distinctive post-industrial feel, with slices of paradise but not quite my go-to country.


----------



## OctavianH

DecentLevi said:


> Also Octavian, I visited Romania for a month last summer. I found it to have a very historic and distinctive post-industrial feel, with slices of paradise but not quite my go-to country.



I agree with you, especially for the southern eastern part which is not quite my cup of tea. But Transylvania is nice and I think that towns like Brasov or Sibiu or Cluj are very different than, for example, Bucharest. Bucharest is also for me not very pleasant to travel to, and I do it only when especially needed, like for example last year when Judas Priest came with their Firepower tour. Anyway, nobody asked me where to be born, and after I was born here in Brasov I never found a better place for me to live. So it seems it is not so bad after all. The post-industrial feel is a reminiscence of the socialism era, which ended on paper a long time ago even if, unfortunately, many still keep it in their minds. If you have the chance to visit it again, you can try the north-western side which will appeal to be more pleasant to you, I hope.


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## connieflyer (Apr 15, 2019)

`Morning DL, nice to hear from you, I can give you an idea of what I have found.  Of the twelve outlets I use eight.  I have CA Streamer, Gungnir Dac, Euforia, Logitech 3 way speaker system, Network Switch, PC, Monitor, and NAS. The most obvious thing I found, right of the bat, was the NAS, it is connected to my main music system, wired to my Anthem MX720, for music play.  It never quite sounded that good.  It was noise, I suppose. Slight distortion, did not like it.  So used the Oppo dvd with cd's of what have you.  Or Amazon music streamed. After the Furman, the NAS was cleaned up so much that the sound was great to the main system.  Now I can stream, Amazon Prime, or Qbuz, Pandora or the NAS and the sound is wonderful.  Same with my desktop speaker system, sounds very clear.  The headphone using Senn 800, is totally silent and have no displeasure with it at all.  I never thought I needed the Furman, but trying to get my system up to where I was happy with it, decided to try one. I live in a relatively small community, and am with in a quarter of a mile from the power sub station, and very seldom every have service interruptions may be once or twice in five years.  Watching the power meter on the Furman, the  voltage reads 122 steady most of the time.  During peak demand times, it may go as high as 123 or as low as 121, never saw it higher or lower than that. The main thing I am seeing is the clarity of the music and while it can not increase FR, it can uncover that which the line noise has distorted.  If you can find one that meets your needs, especially with return priveledges go ahead and try it. If I had it all to do again, that would be my first purchase, and everything else after that. All the above equipment is next to my Lazy Boy chair just for the headphones, with the wife's passing do not have to worry about what anyone days about the "decor"! The room is music centered, everything within reach of my chair. Remotes are great! One more thing, if you are leaving for extended period of time (vacation, hospital, ) or approaching bad storm, only one switch to disconnect your system. Power off Furman and everything pulled in is off. The main music system is also under a conditioner.


----------



## lentoviolento

for those who drive their meze with euforia.. do you think it could be driven by espressivo mk2 as well since it has even more juice?
because i can't keep the violectric too and i am considering selling it


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> The furman sounds really interesting, but i think the lack of uk plug sockets and enough of them means it probably wont work for me, so at the moment i am looking at
> 
> I think i'm going to DIY my power cables with Viablue X-40 Silver mains cable/ MS Power IEC & 3 Pins, so one of these from the wall into NVA BMU Mini 6 socket (at 275, small footprint, with money back guarantee and despite the polarising company owner, makes it look worth a punt, because the airlink BMU with VAT is coming out at £500ish...."buy crap, buy twice is ringing in my ears , then VIablue DIY out into Euforia, SoTM SPS 500 PSU (into streamer), Intel NUC ROON Server with Hugo2 also plugged in by its existing power supply.
> 
> ...



Hi trob.

That NVA BMU does look very good value, and certainly worth giving a try IMHO. The Airlinks products do indeed have 20% VAT added to the prices I quoted previously, which does take them up somewhat!...(my ASF3000 for example becomes £857 - had erased that figure from my mind until now lol! ).

Nice to see you also going DIY on some power cables (cords). That ViaBlue seems good value, but if you can find some using OCC wire at a reasonable price, so much the better. I myself used some Neotech UP-OCC Hybrid cable, but at £56 PLUS 20% dreaded VAT per metre it ain't cheap!! (But can be bought in 25cm lengths if wanted). I noticed that HiFi Collective also had some nice, reasonably priced YA OCC copper cable (medium), but is now discontinued alas...don't know if they've still got a few remnant lengths however : https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/yarbo-audio-3-core-pure-mono-crystal-copper-power-cable.html

Good luck with all your upgrades...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

lentoviolento said:


> for those who drive their meze with euforia.. do you think it could be driven by espressivo mk2 as well since it has even more juice?
> because i can't keep the violectric too and i am considering selling it



Hi lentov.

I'm sure there would easily be enough power, but different tube families will deliver it in different ways _quality-wise _of course, which will influence the headphones' performance/sound. The Empyreans certainly are easy to drive, especially for planars. You really would need to be able to try them first, especially comparing the espressivo to the violectric...we're talking big bucks here lol!! ...GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys..._*YE GODS...*_what have I set in motion here once more? Very possibly a whole new string of bankruptcies methinks lol!! 

However, I'm so glad that more folks are now realising that the juice that feeds _all_ one's equipment needs far closer examination - and bigger expenditure! - than one might have imagined. And as @OctavianH mentioned, it really is best policy to get that sorted properly_ before _anything else. But I too was late discovering just how important this element is...and all thanks to my member friend Olli (Acapella11) who first sang the praises of a mains Regenerator, about which I was initially a bit dubious as I thought I had pretty good mains supply, so why bother? Should have known better than to even think of querying his judgment!! And from there we went to further conditioning/filtering, culminating in my rather expensive ASF3000. So I suppose we can all blame _him, _really lol!! ...(sorry Olli).

Now then folks, onto the results of Olli's HD800 (original, with replacement Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold cable) + Questyle CMA800 amp) vs my Euforia setup + Empyreans.

I shall try to be as brief as possible...(difficult for me!).

First...Senns vs Mezes in Euforia.  We both agreed the Empys are much 'darker' and warmer than the 800s, *but*, I later discovered this was highlighted a good deal by my old, 'balloon' EL38s...more later. Both cans are superb on detail and soundstage...the 800s more scalpel-like in cutting through the music layers and subsequent separation/placement. But I must stress here that Olli's long term love affair with the Senns means he can pinpoint such things far more so than I, coupled with a hyper-analytical spotlight that surpasses even my own! Plus, his UP-OCC silver/gold wire aids in this a good deal...more so in this respect than my own UP-OCC multi-silver and copper cable.
_*However,* _despite the clinical precision of the 800s, I never felt the Empys lacking in this regard whatsoever...simply giving a different _presentation_. 

Bass is much fuller from the Mezes, but in *this* testing the 800s had more control and balance in respect to the overall FR...

Treble was 'sweeter' in the Mezes, but with equally good extension, range and decay (where appropriate) relative to the Senns

We agreed that both cans excel in the mids presentation/details/balance/tone...showcasing vocals beautifully (especially female). I personally felt the Empys had a touch more tonal range in such as acoustic guitar.

So all in all, I would have given the edge to the Senns if one prefers pure (slightly clinical?) clarity over the warmer Empyreans....but now comes the *BIG* _but _:

Thanks to the 800s' highlighting re. bass and lower mids, I decided yesterday to try swapping my 'balloon' EL38s - with inherent bass elevation - for the Philips (France)/Dario silver banded version and...whoa!...different story (for me, anyway!). Now bass is less prominent, tighter, more solid and with better overall control...just like the Senns! And with the added bonus of slightly elevated, but still sweet, treble...with more of the 'sparkle' my T1s are blessed with (and rarely matched IMHO...even if a tad too much for some ears lol!). And all with no negative effect whatsoever on the wonderful mids. So where the 'balloon' EL38s were Heaven sent for the T1s, these Philips/Darios are for the Empyreans..._*in my system, of course!!*_ 

So _*now*_, given these changes, and in conjunction with the magical way in which the Empyreans just wrap the music around your head so smoothly, like a wonderfully cosy blanket, I am more than happy to say these Empyreans will _not_ be leaving my ears..._ever!!_...(except to eat, drink etc. etc. )....not even for the supremely good 800s! ..(that do IMO only really excel in extremely good systems, and with _extremely _good cables).

ps. Given my last statement, the prize has definitely got to go to the Mezes for being a much better match for a lot of different equipment...

Some other interesting discoveries came out of Sunday's exertions, but they'll have to wait...you - and I(!!) - need a rest now....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## lentoviolento

They are impossibile to try here in italy ..


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## DecentLevi (Apr 16, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> for those who drive their meze with euforia.. do you think it could be driven by espressivo mk2 as well since it has even more juice?
> because i can't keep the violectric too and i am considering selling it


Hey just as your post came I noticed about a unique tube amp. I haven't tried it but given the meticulously done and highly positive review on this unit, I would say it's definitely not too far off the mark from even the Euforia, and at half the cost also including a (bypass-able) built in DAC and high/low gain switch.

Quad PA-One + Triode Dac/Headphone Amp
https://headphone.guru/quad-pa-one-triode-tube-dac-headphone-amplifier/



Or if you look around you just might be able to find a used Euiforia for this price, which has top-tier internals and wiring.

Also @connieflyer thanks for the nice write up about your sound system. It sounds like your system is improved with the Furman model But if you have a chance later, any thoughts on a before/after difference on the sound of the Euforia with it would be interesting too.


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi trob.
> 
> That NVA BMU does look very good value, and certainly worth giving a try IMHO. The Airlinks products do indeed have 20% VAT added to the prices I quoted previously, which does take them up somewhat!...(my ASF3000 for example becomes £857 - had erased that figure from my mind until now lol! ).
> 
> ...



Ive ordered the nva mini bmu so I’ll report back. The Occ cable is a bit punchy price-wise as I think at the moment my budget is closer to £20 per metre. DH Labs powerplus gets a lot of good feedback. This French cable is occ core and ofc outer, and is £20. 17mm thick, so pretty ungainly. 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cabl...tfe-3x25mm-double-shielding-o17mm-p-7527.html


----------



## freesole

hypnos1 said:


> Now then guys..._*YE GODS...*_what have I set in motion here once more? Very possibly a whole new string of bankruptcies methinks lol!!
> 
> However, I'm so glad that more folks are now realising that the juice that feeds _all_ one's equipment needs far closer examination - and bigger expenditure! - than one might have imagined. And as @OctavianH mentioned, it really is best policy to get that sorted properly_ before _anything else. But I too was late discovering just how important this element is...and all thanks to my member friend Olli (Acapella11) who first sang the praises of a mains Regenerator, about which I was initially a bit dubious as I thought I had pretty good mains supply, so why bother? Should have known better than to even think of querying his judgment!! And from there we went to further conditioning/filtering, culminating in my rather expensive ASF3000. So I suppose we can all blame _him, _really lol!! ...(sorry Olli).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the notes. I just ordered my Empyrean's so I am very excited to try them. I hear good things about the 800's because they are somewhat legendary... but so too were the 6XX... and while they are not the in the class, I didn't like the 6XX much at all. Are they alike in any way?


----------



## freesole

DecentLevi said:


> Hey just as your post came I noticed about a unique tube amp. I haven't tried it but given the meticulously done and highly positive review on this unit, I would say it's definitely not too far off the mark from even the Euforia, and at half the cost also including a (bypass-able) built in DAC and high/low gain switch.
> 
> Quad PA-One + Triode Dac/Headphone Amp
> https://headphone.guru/quad-pa-one-triode-tube-dac-headphone-amplifier/
> ...



Funny you bring this up. I was curious about this headphone amp and have seen it previously for sale. It does use the 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes as well, which is a bonus as I think they are some of the best preamp tubes around.


----------



## freesole

Hi all. 

I am thinking about purchasing a Euforia and wanted to confirm: the stock Euforia comes with CV181's as drivers - can you tube roll with 6SN7's? I think it is a direct swap but wanted to confirm. 

Thanks!


----------



## OctavianH

freesole said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I am thinking about purchasing a Euforia and wanted to confirm: the stock Euforia comes with CV181's as drivers - can you tube roll with 6SN7's? I think it is a direct swap but wanted to confirm.
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, you can. Check here:
http://feliksaudio.pl/products/euforia/euforia_manual.pdf



> Euforia is originally equipped with high quality tubes. Stock driver tubes are 6SN7 power tubes are 6N13S. Tubes can be changed by the user, to the following:
> Driver tubes: 6N8S, CV181, ECC32, 5692, 6F8G
> Power tubes:6080, 5998, 6N5P, 6N5S, ECC230, 7236, CV2523


----------



## freesole

OctavianH said:


> Yes, you can. Check here:
> http://feliksaudio.pl/products/euforia/euforia_manual.pdf



Thanks for the quick confirm and thanks for the patience, I should have checked the manual first...


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## hypnos1 (Apr 17, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Ive ordered the nva mini bmu so I’ll report back. The Occ cable is a bit punchy price-wise as I think at the moment my budget is closer to £20 per metre. DH Labs powerplus gets a lot of good feedback. This French cable is occ core and ofc outer, and is £20. 17mm thick, so pretty ungainly.
> 
> https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cabl...tfe-3x25mm-double-shielding-o17mm-p-7527.html



That looks a very good price for cable using OCC wire trob, and with decent shielding should prove more than good enough lol!  But yes, that's one FAT cable!!



freesole said:


> Thanks for the notes. I just ordered my Empyrean's so I am very excited to try them. I hear good things about the 800's because they are somewhat legendary... but so too were the 6XX... and while they are not the in the class, I didn't like the 6XX much at all. Are they alike in any way?



Hi freesole. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Empyreans...well done!

As for the Senn 6XX series, although I personally have only had the 650s, as far as I'm concerned - and in my system! - they were very good, but when fast A/Bing with the 800's there was simply no comparison IMHO. And the same goes for my Beyer T1s (with upgraded cable). The 650s do upscale surprisingly well (for the money), but are not in the same league...if one is honest lol! 

The 800s - with the sort of gear that complements them well, like the 'tuned for' Questyle CMA800, including upgraded cables, or tube amps such as Euforia, with warmer tubes - can indeed sound extremely good, as mentioned previously. But they deliver a signature that is certainly not to everyone's taste, and can be very difficult to match up just right with the rest of one's system.

The Empyreans however - again as mentioned in my last post - are proving to be much easier to match well with a wider variety of gear. And I, along with most others, would say the Mezes are definitely a much 'warmer' headphone, which gives a 'smoother' overall sound experience, albeit not quite so _precise_ as the 800's. And so also, therefore, be much more forgiving of less-than-perfect recordings. Plus, I'm sure that in most cases they will prove to be more conducive to long listening sessions lol! 

But my mini-meet did show up a couple of pertinent facts...Not only do the Mezes benefit greatly from an upgraded cable - as do the Senns, but also from really good quality cables elsewhere in the system. And this even includes such as a digital coax cable! It wasn't until a better headphone cable was substituted, and leather pads replaced with Alcantara(!!) that my 800-loving friend began to find the Empys more interesting...(he always looking for _negatives_ before the _positives!_). But this changed a good deal - much to his surprise, and _mine_, when we replaced his amazing-looking £1000 worth monster of a coax cable from Hugo2 to his Questyle, with a very humble looking one I made using Neotech silver/gold plus a copper UP-OCC wires (cost under £40). Neither of us could believe the difference...the Empys delivering the smoothest, most seductive sound I myself have ever heard (and I could tell that Olli also, if even reluctantly, was lost for words...which is a rare occurrence indeed lol! )...A quick photo of said transforming cable...




Now, I realise that this particular mod may not apply to most folks, but it just shows what the Empyreans are in fact capable of achieving...over and above their already superlative performance.

I would finally like to make another recommendation concerning these headphones. Unless one _loves_ bass and lower mids emphasis in their sound, be careful not to have too many other elements in the system - including cables(!) - that lean towards the 'dark' side. Although at first it can seem _extra_ seductive, in recordings that are already biased towards these frequencies it can soon dominate, upsetting the overall balance. And worse, the bass can become a bit 'flabby', less tight and not so well controlled....(especially with the stock cable lol!!).

But bear this in mind, and your Empyreans will reward you with a truly wonderful, satisfying sound....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

The Kemp Power Strip 4 arrived today (in 5 working days) from Holland. It is sturdy and seems to have very good build quality.








I will try to make some tests and come back with some impressions. At this moment I am quite pleased about what I see.

I realised that I need 2 additional power cables to remove all "stock" ones, so I was thinking about some Supra LoRad ones because I found here some at a good price.
I like also that they seem to be flexible compared to other models. Does anyone have some experience with these Supra? Should I go for them?
I guess these are the ones:
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-lorad-mkii-2-5-cs-eu-10-amp-mains-cable


----------



## iamalex

OctavianH said:


> The Kemp Power Strip 4 arrived today (in 5 working days) from Holland. It is sturdy and seems to have very good build quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the Supra cables are fine and use them in my system. Their weakest point is probably the IEC-connector which always seems to be a bit loose in its receptor. IMHO you can't go wrong with them from a value point-of-view. But if you can get rid of their plugs (the mains-plug is "okay", said IEC-plug not so much) I'd do it.


----------



## iamalex

Apropos: is soldering another IEC-plug to a cable something that any hifi-repair-guy will do? If I could, I'd do it myself, but anything beyond changing a light-bulb is a no-no for me.. would be too dangerous!


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> The Kemp Power Strip 4 arrived today (in 5 working days) from Holland. It is sturdy and seems to have very good build quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looking forward to hearing how it works for you. Would you consider diy power cable? A power cable has to be the easiest diy cable, no soldering just a bit of wire stripping and a screwdriver. Then for the same money as a lo rad you could have a cable worth 4 x the amount. Many of the audio spares companies on eBay are in your part of Europe. That said all supra cables are better than their price tag, I’ve use their speaker cables and until recently their usb and interconnects


----------



## hypnos1

iamalex said:


> Apropos: is soldering another IEC-plug to a cable something that any hifi-repair-guy will do? If I could, I'd do it myself, but anything beyond changing a light-bulb is a no-no for me.. would be too dangerous!



Hi Alex.

As @teknorob23 just mentioned, power cable plugs are in fact usually attached very easily with screw terminals...just strip back the wires and screw down (making sure you get positive(live), neutral and earth (if present) in the right position of course!! ...easy lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys, just a quick note on the benefits of extended listening and repeated revisiting - with an open mind! - when assessing any part of our gear.

I recently mentioned how my old 'balloon' EL38 powers were 'overloading' the already warm nature of my Empyrean headphones, and that swapping them for the Philips/Darios restored 'perfect' balance, with tighter and more controlled bass/lower mids and a tad more treble (closer to the HD800 signature, in fact). Well, despite on paper being more 'correct', after a while I unexpectedly began to feel less happy with the experience...I was missing that extra warmth I had before the swap, even though bass was more 'loose' and less controlled.

So, harking back to my Elise days when something similar happened when using 2x ECC31s (_very_ bass orientated!) - and remedied by substituting one for an FDD20 - I thought I'd try a combo of 1x 'balloon' with 1x Dario..._eureka!_ ...Bass and lower mids only_ slightly_ less balanced/controlled, but nothing to be concerned about at all. And back was that extra warmth that made for a much more 'cosy' sound, with a sweeter treble and no detrimental effect on detail, FR or soundstage. That feeling of being wrapped in a lovely, comforting blanket had returned...along with an extra silky smoothness to female vocals especially.

The moral of the tale being twofold, of course...1. Don't be too hasty in judging a particular sound delivery from any part of one's equipment - it can be quite a while before not only its _true_ nature is revealed, but also just how it fits in with what suits us best (which can take even _longer _to fully appreciate lol! ).

2. Don't be afraid to 'mix and match' different tubes to 'fine tune' to one's own particular satisfaction...preferably from the same family, of course. There's nothing to lose, really...and may just bring your own 'eureka' moment! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Apr 20, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> That looks a very good price for cable using OCC wire trob, and with decent shielding should prove more than good enough lol!  But yes, that's one FAT cable!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those Empyreans sound I interesting. But my take is the need for tweaking to fine tune it to a flat sound (cable upgrades, changing pads, tube combos, etc.) may be a little too much for me so I'd have to hear them first at least. Actually this is one of many hot new open summit-fi cans to hit the market recently that I have yet to try,  (Mr. Speakers Ether 2, Focal Stellia, Hifiman Arya & Ananda, various ZMF offerings), so hopefully will make my rounds to try these at a Can Jam sometime.

Also @connieflyer, any more opinions of the difference your Furman ELITE-15 DM I is making on your Euforia with / without the unit? Thanks!



hypnos1 said:


> ...Don't be afraid to 'mix and match' different tubes to 'fine tune' to one's own particular satisfaction...preferably from the same family, of course. There's nothing to lose, really...and may just bring your own 'eureka' moment! ...CHEERS!...CJ


Or it could be a 'Euforia moment'


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hi guys,
I have been silent in this thread for almost one year 
I had a bit of a weird experience with my Euforia. After quite some time I went back to my Project Ember with a 6SN7 tube and, although it is less clear and the stage is significantly smaller, I actually feel that Euforia is rounding off the sub-bass, because I get a lot more of that on Ember. This effect is particularly clear with electronic music, even if I don't really listen to this kind of music.

I tried swapping pretty much every tube that I have and I could dig a combo that almost matches the Ember in sub-bass extension, but just barely (Raytheon 6SN7 + GEC 6080). Using a pair of TS 5998 also gave a nice extension but bass quantity was rather disappointing.
Have you experience a similar effect? I would like to clarify that I am not saying by any means that Ember "is better than Euforia", but bass extension seems much better in a relatively simple solid state output stage.

I will appreciate the most your input.


----------



## mordy

Tunkejazz said:


> Hi guys,
> I have been silent in this thread for almost one year
> I had a bit of a weird experience with my Euforia. After quite some time I went back to my Project Ember with a 6SN7 tube and, although it is less clear and the stage is significantly smaller, I actually feel that Euforia is rounding off the sub-bass, because I get a lot more of that on Ember. This effect is particularly clear with electronic music, even if I don't really listen to this kind of music.
> 
> ...


I got improved bass by adding an external DAC - did not spend more than $75 on an old Musical Fidelity V-DAC (recommended by JV) but it made for a significant  improvement in bass (and clarity as well).
I have not tried the EL38 tubes, but people claim that they have very good bass as power tubes.


----------



## hypnos1

Tunkejazz said:


> Hi guys,
> I have been silent in this thread for almost one year
> I had a bit of a weird experience with my Euforia. After quite some time I went back to my Project Ember with a 6SN7 tube and, although it is less clear and the stage is significantly smaller, I actually feel that Euforia is rounding off the sub-bass, because I get a lot more of that on Ember. This effect is particularly clear with electronic music, even if I don't really listen to this kind of music.
> 
> ...



Hi Tunkejazz. Thanks for popping in to say hello! 

Haven't heard many folks not very happy with the bass from Euforia, and suspect that - as usual - so much depends on the rest of the system also....coupled with the actual tubes used. If you want _loads_ of bass, the Mullard ECC31 *driver* (needs adapter) delivers in spades. But as mordy says, the EL38 *power *(with adapter) is the most impressive tube I've adapted so far...not only for _quantity_ of bass - with better detail/control than the ECC31 - but right across the board.

Headphones too will have a big impact...my new Meze Empyreans, for example, deliver a bass that far exceeds the Beyer T1s and the HD800!! 

So good luck with your own search for the bass you seek lol...never is easy to get _everything_ one would love from a system. It's taken me a good few years, and a _lot_ of $$$$ to finally believe I've found my own source of audio nirvana...(just hope and pray my hearing and/or preferences don't change too much for a long while yet lol!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

just a quick update for the Euforia/ Mains Power sub-thread. Having just come back from rainy Spain with stinking cold, my mood was lifted by the arrival of the Nene Valley Audio Mini Balanced mains unit as well as an assortment of connectors (Oyaide Silver IEC £15, MS Power Silver UK mains plugs £38 and cable (ElecAudio CS-361B OCC Double shielded £19 per metre). The cable seems a bit of steal but is ridiculously fat and proper pain to work with, but after a late night filled with industrial language i now have four conga eels running into each component out of the NVA BMU. Heads too blocked up to do much in way of listening and the power cables will need a couple of weeks if not more to properly run in, but i think i could get have found a new sub-addiction in cable DIY'ing thanks to @hypnos1 encouragement and advice. I'll report back asap on the effects on the performance of our Polish loved one, and i look forward to hearing more from @OctavianH  and @Scutey on your new adventures in electricity 

In the meantime heres some quick snaps of one of my slightly indecent looking creations...


----------



## Lucky87

Anyone using a Sabre 9038 Pro DAC with the Euforia? Sounds really amazing with the Z1R making the sound stage sound really big which is awesome for a close can. But what I like best is the sound I am getting from the Utopia's which helps with the depth and width letting them breath instead of the music getting thrown at you..
Looking forward to my incoming Meze Empyreans that arriving tomorrow..


----------



## freesole

Lucky87 said:


> Anyone using a Sabre 9038 Pro DAC with the Euforia? Sounds really amazing with the Z1R making the sound stage sound really big which is awesome for a close can. But what I like best is the sound I am getting from the Utopia's which helps with the depth and width letting them breath instead of the music getting thrown at you..
> Looking forward to my incoming Meze Empyreans that arriving tomorrow..



Lucky you! I am still waiting on mine... Meze's apparently behind in production.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2019)

Hey folks, I scored a good deal on a Furman IT reference 15i. It's their top model and listed for both studio and audiophile use, from what I can tell being both a power conditioner and regenerator. Here's to hoping it will yield even better improvements than the Elite 15-I... not that I've tried it but hoping for the best possible conditioning money can buy, for my Euforia and future rigs. It has multiple outputs filtered in different ways to choose from, so I'll have a lot of comparing to do.

I don't usually ask the performance of something after putchasing, but I gave in this time before I missed the chance. Seller told me it's barely used and made last year, 1/2 off the normal $2700 tag. I tried asking over on the Glenn amp GOTL thread but it seems people over there either don't believe in, or don't need conditioning for their amps.

It will still be a few weeks till I get my rig set up after finding a new place. Oh also did someone mention something about there being a dedicated thread for a power conditioning on the Euforia?


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## DecentLevi (Apr 24, 2019)

freesole said:


> Lucky you! I am still waiting on mine... Meze's apparently behind in production.


Too cool, Freesole. I'll be moving back to Seattle in the coming weeks so maybe later we can meet... I would be interested to try your Empyreans vs. Focal Elegia, and you can hear them on my unique specially souped-up Euforia rig. Send me a PM sometime


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## freesole (Apr 24, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Too cool, Freesole. I'll be moving back to Seattle in the coming weeks so maybe later we can meet... I would be interested to try your Empyreans vs. Focal Elegia, and you can hear them on my unique specially souped-up Euforia rig. Send me a PM sometime



That sounds great. Hit me up when you are back. I have the Elegia for my work setup as well - though I do want to hear the Stellia's to see if it is a worthwhile upgrade. How are you enjoying yours with the Euforia?


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> I'll report back asap on the effects on the performance of our Polish loved one, and i look forward to hearing more from @OctavianH  and @Scutey on your new adventures in electricity



I was out of town on a 3 day trip to the nearby mountains, so my electricity adventures had to stop. I had no electricity there except some thunders on Friday night which definitely I would not try on my amps. 
But I am back and I had in the last 2 evening time to listen to my amps. I plugged the Furman (Elise+CXC) the first output of the Kemp Power Strip and my A2 in the second, as advised by the manufacturer. Hard to say why since the power strip is star wired so all outputs are similar, but anyway. On the 3rd output I plugged the MCRU LPS from which I power the Chord Qutest and the 4th output remained empty, the plan there is to power from it my ISO Regen or the filterning device I will use alongside Qutest when I will find an LPS for it.

In the first evening I had the impression that everything sounds dull. Since I am able to listen in parallel to a tube amp and a ss one I said OK, let's make a comparison. The ss one was sounding a bit better but still not as I remember it. So there was a general problem and the only "change" was the power strip which is now plugged directly in the wall. I start to read if maybe the Furman filters AC and if it is not directly plugged to the wall might be restricted somehow by the Kemp. Anyway, the evening ended in disappointment.
In the second evening my expectations were limited, based on what I heard before. And voila! Everything started to sound again as expected, but still, a little bit different. I had the feeling that the sound is brighter than before.

So my adventures are ongoing, I still need time to understand what is happening, but what I have learned is that even these power strips are evolving, or our brain is evolving alongside them. Kemp advises in their manual that the power strip needs 1 month until will reach its maximum performance.

Anyway, for the ones owning MCRU No75 and the Furman AC210A-E, has anyone tried :

1) to power Elise or Euforia from the Furman and from the No. 75 and compare?

2) to change the stock cable of Furman (that one fixed with that wire) with the No 75 and make a comparison?

I ask because I plan to change all my power cables with better shielded ones and I wonder if it makes sense to change also the Furman stock one.

More than this, I have 2 MCRU Linear Power Supplies (one for Qutest and one for 2Qute). Does it make sense to change the power cable at the input of an LPS? Or only the output matters?

PS. Maybe a separate thread for these "electrical" quests would be appropriate since I am quite off-topic here.


----------



## DecentLevi

freesole said:


> That sounds great. Hit me up when you are back. I have the Elegia for my work setup as well - though I do want to hear the Stellia's to see if it is a worthwhile upgrade. How are you enjoying yours with the Euforia?


Sounds awesome thanks. I'll hit you up later. Oh yeah the Stelia's are the higher level from Elegia I think. Haven't tried any of these new 'cans that came out in the last year, I cycle between Senn. HD 650 and 600, with an upgraded silver cable and am still stunned at how they scale with hi-end gear, though knowing they're not the 'final word.

I was fortunate to recover from a disease 2 months ago that I picked up touring Bangladesh and returned to the US, now staying with a friend near Seattle and working a new job downtown until I find a place closer, then can set up my Euforia rig again. My Euforia system will be indeed be special though because I roll with 8 tubes at once via an externally powered adapter, with many exotic tube chpices, a series of three USB signal cleaners 'decrapifiers', and now an upcoming high level power conditioner so I'd recon it would be a worthwhile listen even if you already have a Euforia.

And being in the Seattle area you'd be doing yourself a big disservice to miss out on the local meetups put on by a fine crew in varying locations several times a year - they post here:
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers.24/


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I was out of town on a 3 day trip to the nearby mountains, so my electricity adventures had to stop. I had no electricity there except some thunders on Friday night which definitely I would not try on my amps.
> But I am back and I had in the last 2 evening time to listen to my amps. I plugged the Furman (Elise+CXC) the first output of the Kemp Power Strip and my A2 in the second, as advised by the manufacturer. Hard to say why since the power strip is star wired so all outputs are similar, but anyway. On the 3rd output I plugged the MCRU LPS from which I power the Chord Qutest and the 4th output remained empty, the plan there is to power from it my ISO Regen or the filterning device I will use alongside Qutest when I will find an LPS for it.
> 
> In the first evening I had the impression that everything sounds dull. Since I am able to listen in parallel to a tube amp and a ss one I said OK, let's make a comparison. The ss one was sounding a bit better but still not as I remember it. So there was a general problem and the only "change" was the power strip which is now plugged directly in the wall. I start to read if maybe the Furman filters AC and if it is not directly plugged to the wall might be restricted somehow by the Kemp. Anyway, the evening ended in disappointment.
> ...



Sounds interesting so far and yes i would run a decent cable to the Linear PSUs. From what i gather the cable running into the conditioner is less important the one running out, but i'm sure others here can offer you more conclusive advice. Congrats on the set up and i'm assuming after this diversion is temporary and we'll all get back to feedback its effects on the Euforia very soon


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> just a quick update for the Euforia/ Mains Power sub-thread. Having just come back from rainy Spain with stinking cold, my mood was lifted by the arrival of the Nene Valley Audio Mini Balanced mains unit as well as an assortment of connectors (Oyaide Silver IEC £15, MS Power Silver UK mains plugs £38 and cable (ElecAudio CS-361B OCC Double shielded £19 per metre). The cable seems a bit of steal but is ridiculously fat and proper pain to work with, but after a late night filled with industrial language i now have four conga eels running into each component out of the NVA BMU. Heads too blocked up to do much in way of listening and the power cables will need a couple of weeks if not more to properly run in, but i think i could get have found a new sub-addiction in cable DIY'ing thanks to @hypnos1 encouragement and advice. I'll report back asap on the effects on the performance of our Polish loved one, and i look forward to hearing more from @OctavianH  and @Scutey on your new adventures in electricity
> 
> In the meantime heres some quick snaps of one of my slightly indecent looking creations...



WELL DONE! trob...a very professional looking job you've done there... Hope you'll be over your cold soon...mostly so you can get to hear your new BMU unit as well as cables, and let us know the results lol!! 

Now then...how's about interconnects and headphone cable using Neotech UP-OCC wire?!!! ...(I hear yet another wailing wallet! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> WELL DONE! trob...a very professional looking job you've done there... Hope you'll be over your cold soon...mostly so you can get to hear your new BMU unit as well as cables, and let us know the results lol!!
> 
> Now then...how's about interconnects and headphone cable using Neotech UP-OCC wire?!!! ...(I hear yet another wailing wallet! )...CHEERS!...CJ



thanks and i hope you're feeling better too. Having just spent a small fortune for a Tellurium Q Black Ultra 2 RCA, to go with the equally luxury TQ USB, both of which fortunately have had very positive effects on my set up, if not my wallet, i would love to see if i can achieve similar results for far less money with DIY alternatives. The leap to soldering hopefully wont prove to be to big, but i have to admit i find the idea of building a headphone cable a much more daunting prospect... baby steps eh?


----------



## hypnos1

Lucky87 said:


> Anyone using a Sabre 9038 Pro DAC with the Euforia? Sounds really amazing with the Z1R making the sound stage sound really big which is awesome for a close can. But what I like best is the sound I am getting from the Utopia's which helps with the depth and width letting them breath instead of the music getting thrown at you..
> Looking forward to my incoming Meze Empyreans that arriving tomorrow..



Nice set of cans you're gathering there L87! And it will indeed be very interesting to hear what you make of the Empyreans in comparison. But to be fair to these beauties, they do benefit a good deal from an upgraded cable, and plenty of burn-in time...both for the hardware _and_ brain (the latter being of more importance than often realised/given, especially as the Mezes don't shout out loud all their qualities straight away! ). GOOD LUCK!...

ps. Before my Hugo2 as DAC, I loved the crystal clarity/detail retrieval of the Sabre 9018 chip, so I presume the 9038 Pro is even better lol


----------



## Lucky87 (Apr 25, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Nice set of cans you're gathering there L87! And it will indeed be very interesting to hear what you make of the Empyreans in comparison. But to be fair to these beauties, they do benefit a good deal from an upgraded cable, and plenty of burn-in time...both for the hardware _and_ brain (the latter being of more importance than often realised/given, especially as the Mezes don't shout out loud all their qualities straight away! ). GOOD LUCK!...
> 
> ps. Before my Hugo2 as DAC, I loved the crystal clarity/detail retrieval of the Sabre 9018 chip, so I presume the 9038 Pro is even better lol



Hi hypnos1 I had the Oppo HA-1 which used the 9018 chip and I was not a fan I personally found it way to lean and bright but that could have been just that DAC I never tried another one with that chip, and to make matters worse I was using the HD800 at the time (ears bleeding) I liked the 9017 chip better... And the 9038 Pro chips does very well in my book. I am now comparing it with my new Holo Spring 2 KTE R2R DAC now so far it is a love hate depending on what gear you are using it with. And as of now the Spring 2 KTE does not pair very well with the Euforia, but with my Yamaha A-S3000 and Dynaudio Special 40's speakers sound really amazing and never sounded better. But too be fair to the Spring DAC only been using it for a couple of days still burning in and it is starting to sound allot better.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hey folks, I scored a good deal on a Furman IT reference 15i. It's their top model and listed for both studio and audiophile use, from what I can tell being both a power conditioner and regenerator. Here's to hoping it will yield even better improvements than the Elite 15-I... not that I've tried it but hoping for the best possible conditioning money can buy, for my Euforia and future rigs. It has multiple outputs filtered in different ways to choose from, so I'll have a lot of comparing to do.
> 
> I don't usually ask the performance of something after putchasing, but I gave in this time before I missed the chance. Seller told me it's barely used and made last year, 1/2 off the normal $2700 tag.* I tried asking over on the Glenn amp GOTL thread but it seems people over there either don't believe in, or don't need conditioning for their amps.*
> 
> It will still be a few weeks till I get my rig set up after finding a new place. Oh also did someone mention something about there being a dedicated thread for a power conditioning on the Euforia?



Hmmm, DL....if I've gleaned at least one thing from my years on forum threads, it's that the reasons for no - or negative! - response to one's posts are many and varied lol!!!  And one can never - nor should - delve too deeply into just _why!!_..one may not like what one comes up with! ...(as I have noticed in a certain headphone thread recently, apart from the occasional more 'sympathetic' individual).

And as for so-called 'scientific experts', these are the _last_ people I would rely upon for any kind of guidance in this very *un*scientific area we call "hi-fidelity music appreciation" lol!! I personally much prefer what has been found by _many_ in the _practical_ arena...and then best of all, of course, one's _own_ findings.

So I hope that you too are happy with what your (very nice looking!) Furman delivers...looking forward to your findings...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> thanks and i hope you're feeling better too. Having just spent a small fortune for a Tellurium Q Black Ultra 2 RCA, to go with the equally luxury TQ USB, both of which fortunately have had very positive effects on my set up, if not my wallet, i would love to see if i can achieve similar results for far less money with DIY alternatives. The leap to soldering hopefully wont prove to be to big, but i have to admit i find the idea of building a headphone cable a much more daunting prospect... baby steps eh?



Tellurium, trob? So it's not all "snake oil" after all then?!! (But its price does still seem rather OTT lol!...and prohibitive for headphone length cable I should imagine! ).

Soldering is indeed a different proposition to screw terminals, and does need a good bit of practice before tackling finer jobs in restricted spaces. But once got the hang of, shouldn't be _too _daunting a project!  But as you say, _baby_ steps at a time...(youtube is a good source of practical advice/demonstration).


----------



## hypnos1

Lucky87 said:


> Hi hypnos1 I had the Oppo HA-1 which used the 9018 chip and I was not a fan I personally found it way to lean and bright but that could have been just that DAC I never tried another one with that chip, and to make matters worse I was using the HD800 at the time (ears bleeding) I liked the 9017 chip better... And the 9038 Pro chips does very well in my book. I am now comparing it with my new Holo Spring 2 KTE R2R DAC now so far it is a love hate depending on what gear you are using it with. And as of now the Spring 2 KTE does not pair very well with the Euforia, but with my Yamaha A-S3000 and Dynaudio Special 40's speakers sound really amazing and never sounded better. But too be fair to the Spring DAC only been using it for a couple of days still burning in and it is starting to sound allot better.



Yeah, L87...implementation was King with the Sabre 9018. And it would appear that not very many manufacturers got it right lol!  And _very_ dodgy for the likes of the HD800!!  My Audiolab 8200CD managed it very well, and my subsequent custom tube-based DAC even better (long live tubes lol! ). But both surpassed by Hugo2..._in my system_.

And as with your Holo Spring...._synergy is everything!_ Hope all stays together well with your Euforia...CHEERS!


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Tellurium, trob? So it's not all "snake oil" after all then?!! (But its price does still seem rather OTT lol!...and prohibitive for headphone length cable I should imagine! ).
> 
> Soldering is indeed a different proposition to screw terminals, and does need a good bit of practice before tackling finer jobs in restricted spaces. But once got the hang of, shouldn't be _too _daunting a project!  But as you say, _baby_ steps at a time...(youtube is a good source of practical advice/demonstration).



My interest is peaked and this sort of DIY is quite satisfying and therapeutic distraction when a blocked head is prohibiting my indulgence in habit No.1.

2 questions and i promise to get back on topic, although this is all in the pursuit of improving my euforia. Which Neotech cable do you recommend the OCC pure copper of copper/ silver mix? and do you have any connector suggestions that fit the under endowed Hugo2's rca sockets. 

The TQ RCA has had nearly as bigger an impact the on the SotM/ Euforia/ Hugo set up as its sister USB. The sound continues to get wider, deeper and more organised plus bass definition has lept forward. But its hard to say whether this is colouring from the cable or whether its just incredibly transparent and is just allowing the other components to shine even brighter... im worried this sort of thinking is where madness lies, but TQ dont help by giving zero away on there cables construction. That said i've never heard either a USB or RCA make such a positive and drastic difference so even if its bell wire, string and three taps of magic wand, they're on to something..... But maybe with a bit of neotech OCC we can all become alchemists too  rob


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> just a quick update for the Euforia/ Mains Power sub-thread. Having just come back from rainy Spain with stinking cold, my mood was lifted by the arrival of the Nene Valley Audio Mini Balanced mains unit as well as an assortment of connectors (Oyaide Silver IEC £15, MS Power Silver UK mains plugs £38 and cable (ElecAudio CS-361B OCC Double shielded £19 per metre). The cable seems a bit of steal but is ridiculously fat and proper pain to work with, but after a late night filled with industrial language i now have four conga eels running into each component out of the NVA BMU. Heads too blocked up to do much in way of listening and the power cables will need a couple of weeks if not more to properly run in, but i think i could get have found a new sub-addiction in cable DIY'ing thanks to @hypnos1 encouragement and advice. I'll report back asap on the effects on the performance of our Polish loved one, and i look forward to hearing more from @OctavianH  and @Scutey on your new adventures in electricity
> 
> In the meantime heres some quick snaps of one of my slightly indecent looking creations...


Hi rob, that's a bummer having a cold, there's nothing worse than being kept away from our audio gear . Congrats on the cable, that looks pretty impressive and very well shielded!, I'll be definitely interested to know how you get on with em. Regarding adventures with electricity, I'm still off colour so haven't got in as much use as I would like, having said that, I turned on the Euforia yesterday for the first time in several days, and there was a quite marked improvement, which I assume is a combination of all the components bedding in, however the furman seems to have added some extra presence to the sub bass to the upper mids, along with more depth, so imo, the Furman is a worthwhile if anyone is in the market for a budget Power conditioner.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Anyway, for the ones owning MCRU No75 and the Furman AC210A-E, has anyone tried :
> 
> 1) to power Elise or Euforia from the Furman and from the No. 75 and compare?
> 
> ...


Hi Octavian. In answer to your questions I've tried both ways. 

1) both Furman and MCRU No 75 improved the sound, however the Furman, I would say had a greater improvement, Furman had more of everything, Imaging, micro detail, dynamics etc, No 75 also improved the sound, but to a lesser extent, wider soundstage, clarity, detail.

2) I have also changed out the stock cable on the Furman and replaced it with the No 75, I would say the difference is not huge, but there is some difference, the best way I can put it is the No 75 has added some snap to the sound and the wider soundstage.

Hope this helps!.


----------



## OctavianH

Many thanks @Scutey for your feedback. Just for curiosity, at the moment, you are keeping the No. 75 in the Furman? In my caseI guess I'll leave the stock one there...

@teknorob23 Those Tellurium Q look impressive, but 1000 EUR/ 1m are also impressive. I cannot afford them, and there are 100 more important things to upgrade in my system before interconnects, but I have to be honest that maybe one day I'll try them. Anyway, Black Diamond or Silver would be my choices.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Many thanks @Scutey for your feedback. Just for curiosity, at the moment, you are keeping the No. 75 in the Furman? In my caseI guess I'll leave the stock one there...
> Yes I'm keeping the No 75 in the Furman, as it does add a bit extra to the whole sound.


----------



## Scutey

Yes I'm keeping the No 75 in the Furman as it does add a bit extra to the whole sound.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> Many thanks @Scutey for your feedback. Just for curiosity, at the moment, you are keeping the No. 75 in the Furman? In my caseI guess I'll leave the stock one there...
> 
> @teknorob23 Those Tellurium Q look impressive, but 1000 EUR/ 1m are also impressive. I cannot afford them, and there are 100 more important things to upgrade in my system before interconnects, but I have to be honest that maybe one day I'll try them. Anyway, Black Diamond or Silver would be my choices.



@OctavianH, Agreed they are expensive, but the Black Ultra 2 RCA isnt quite as rich as the Diamond USB at £450 or £375 after discount. Based on their performance they seem worth the price, but i'm hopefully that with my further explorations in audio diy, will mean that i can acheive something similar and the TQ will be on ebay shortly 

@Scutey sorry to hear you're not well either and beginning to think this thread could do with its own dedicated nurse, at least for the sickly UK contingent!  Great to hear the furman is making such a difference and sounds like a genuine bargain. I cant report much on my adventures with electricity yet, other than to say its all pluged in and i'm particularly impressed with "Oyaide" impersonator IEC plug, which fit both the Euforia and the Streamer far more securely than the more expensive Furutech plugs on my bought cables. The silver plating also appears to be very high quality too and £15 each they appear to be quiet a bargain. i bought them from UK based website recommended to me in another forum http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk.

... ps seeing as i've gone DIY, i have a lover UK mains 1.7m MCRU no.75 which i'll happily trade for money


----------



## OctavianH

I will focus my efforts on improving the USB input. But before I will try any new cable I have to solve other problems like a decent USB regenerator/USB card in my PC. At the moment the USB cable is plugged in my motherboard which is, for sure, not the best setup for audio.
Since I use this PC for gaming and I like to read stuff on it while listening to music, I will not change it as a source for my system. What I have to do is to improve USB transmission and there are several paths to follow here but at the moment I am evaluating all of them from the perspective of price/performance.
After I will solve this I will start to think about USB cables and interconnects.


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> My interest is peaked and this sort of DIY is quite satisfying and therapeutic distraction when a blocked head is prohibiting my indulgence in habit No.1.
> 
> 2 questions and i promise to get back on topic, although this is all in the pursuit of improving my euforia. Which Neotech cable do you recommend the OCC pure copper of copper/ silver mix? and do you have any connector suggestions that fit the under endowed Hugo2's rca sockets.
> 
> The TQ RCA has had nearly as bigger an impact the on the SotM/ Euforia/ Hugo set up as its sister USB. The sound continues to get wider, deeper and more organised plus bass definition has lept forward. But its hard to say whether this is colouring from the cable or whether its just incredibly transparent and is just allowing the other components to shine even brighter... im worried this sort of thinking is where madness lies, but TQ dont help by giving zero away on there cables construction. That said i've never heard either a USB or RCA make such a positive and drastic difference so even if its bell wire, string and three taps of magic wand, they're on to something..... But maybe with a bit of neotech OCC we can all become alchemists too  rob



Looks like the DIY bug is hitting hard trob...be careful, it's _highly_ addictive once you see the results you can achieve at a fraction of the cost of commercial products (plus, you can make your own concoction to suit lol! ).

Re. cable for interconnects, probably the safest, and easiest route is what I used for my own :  Neotech 2001 UP-OCC silver :  https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nei-2001-interconnect-cable.html 
This cable has three multi-wire conductors that can be used for either XLR or RCA....and has much more silver wire than the cable just for RCA at the same price (doesn't make sense really!). I personally hated the idea of that third trio of wire standing idle, so I used _two_ for signal and added some more silver wire to the third as return. Plus, I added some copper wire to both directions! But I'm now doubting if it was really necessary lol. I would advise leaving that third conductor unused....you're still getting far more silver than in the "RCA" cable! (And I personally rate silver above copper any day...especially as the UP-OCC process definitely smooths out the treble, compared to 'ordinary' pure silver). I also like being able to buy it in 25cm lengths up to requirement...don't see the point of paying extra for 1 metre lengths when seldom really necessary lol! Plus, as with all cables..._the shorter the better!_ 

As for the vexed question of (good) RCA connectors that will actually_ fit _inside Hugo2's sockets (bad design flaw IMHO!!), I can't really recommend any at the moment. But my hifi buddy, Olli, did find some for his DIY cable so I'll try and find out which ones they were and let you know. (I think they also had screw terminals, which is great for achieving metal-to-metal contact before soldering).

So, good luck with your new-found hobby......CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Looks like the DIY bug is hitting hard trob...be careful, it's _highly_ addictive once you see the results you can achieve at a fraction of the cost of commercial products (plus, you can make your own concoction to suit lol! ).
> 
> Re. cable for interconnects, probably the safest, and easiest route is what I used for my own :  Neotech 2001 UP-OCC silver :  https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nei-2001-interconnect-cable.html
> This cable has three multi-wire conductors that can be used for either XLR or RCA....and has much more silver wire than the cable just for RCA at the same price (doesn't make sense really!). I personally hated the idea of that third trio of wire standing idle, so I used _two_ for signal and added some more silver wire to the third as return. Plus, I added some copper wire to both directions! But I'm now doubting if it was really necessary lol. I would advise leaving that third conductor unused....you're still getting far more silver than in the "RCA" cable! (And I personally rate silver above copper any day...especially as the UP-OCC process definitely smooths out the treble, compared to 'ordinary' pure silver). I also like being able to buy it in 25cm lengths up to requirement...don't see the point of paying extra for 1 metre lengths when seldom really necessary lol! Plus, as with all cables..._the shorter the better!_
> ...



Thanks, I think  CJ, i'm not sure i'm going to find my way back out of this rabbit hole for some while! This silver cable looks amazing, but due to keeping my Euforia at height beyond the reach and current climbing capabilities of the tiny marauders i share my house with, i need best part of a 1.5 metre RCA to run down to the hidden Hugo. I'm a bit scared to dive in with £500+ for my first attempt, so i'm going to give the 3001 mkIII. As for plugs i've stuck with what i know, KLE harmony silvers. They dont fit the Hugos' stupid holes, out of the packet but they have a really thick polymer case that can with stand a bit or careful sand papering down to size without any detriment to performance. Hifi collective are seem confident that i'll be able to work the 10.5mm 3001 in the end to the 9.5mm holes. i would still love to hear about these screw lock ones too. Sorry to everyone else on here, i'll take this now completely off topic journey into DIY DM from here, promise


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Thanks, I think  CJ, i'm not sure i'm going to find my way back out of this rabbit hole for some while! This silver cable looks amazing, but due to keeping my Euforia at height beyond the reach and current climbing capabilities of the tiny marauders i share my house with, i need best part of a 1.5 metre RCA to run down to the hidden Hugo. I'm a bit scared to dive in with £500+ for my first attempt, so i'm going to give the 3001 mkIII. As for plugs i've stuck with what i know, KLE harmony silvers. They dont fit the Hugos' stupid holes, out of the packet but they have a really thick polymer case that can with stand a bit or careful sand papering down to size without any detriment to performance. Hifi collective are seem confident that i'll be able to work the 10.5mm 3001 in the end to the 9.5mm holes. i would still love to hear about these screw lock ones too. Sorry to everyone else on here, i'll take this now completely off topic journey into DIY DM from here, promise



Apologies also to those not quite so into DIY cables...but perhaps the occasional intrepid 'tweaker' might just be lured down this rabbit hole also lol! ....and actually save themselves a lot of money in the long run .

I can understand your reluctance to spend that kind of money trob, and that 3001 does look extremely good as a copper cable. I look forward to your findings...but I doubt it will come close to your Tellurium alas...(I hope I'm very much mistaken!! ). A real shame you have to use such a long length...have you considered auctioning off the kids lol?!!! (but don't tell the missus!!!).

Those KLE Silver Harmony are the very plugs I used (also filing down those jaws!) before biting the no-connector bullet once more and taking my IC wires direct to H2's internal connections!! (those at the 6.3mm headphone out...much more impressive looking than the RCA ones! And with spring loaded metal-to-metal contact - _no solder!_ So thank goodness power to both come direct from the FPGA chip ).

GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> @Scutey sorry to hear you're not well either and beginning to think this thread could do with its own dedicated nurse, at least for the sickly UK contingent!


It's a pain in the bum, I've been having trouble with migraines, when I get one, it's me pretty much done for the day. regarding a dedicated nurse, how about Crocked Euforia Owners Nurse Thread .


----------



## ZRW0 (May 5, 2019)

Hello,

Back to my tube rolling adventures with the Euforia, I recently discovered 6N12S from a Russian company named MELZ.

They are very well balanced, with plenty of details, tight, fast and "accurate" bass (neither overwhelming, nor "hollow"/lacking-of-meat as I eventually always feel with EL tubes as drivers).

Regarding my current collection of tubes, the 6N12S are actually the only tubes that can successfully be combined with both 6AS7 and EL families as powers.
Therefore, unlike with other 6SN7 drivers, they pair quite well with EL38. The volume can be set to a very high level without any distorsion.




For now, I'm actually fund of the 6N12S/EL38 combo.
My Kennerton planars sound like a dream, and I'm once again rediscovering my records with subtle details I never heard or paid-attention-to before.

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Back to my tube rolling adventures with the Euforia, I recently discovered 6N12S from a Russian company named MELZ.
> 
> ...



Hi Erwan.

Sounds like an interesting find...could well be 6N12S and Kennertons speaking Russian to each other perhaps lol!! 

This tube is, of course, equivalent to the 6BL7, which is sometimes used as an alternative to the 6AS7G as power tube. So it's interesting that it works in the driver seat without any 'issues'.
I'm not sure if this would remain so with long term use, and would advise checking this out with F-A. I do hope it does prove OK, as it certainly seems to give you what you're looking for in your system. In my own setup - especially now with the Meze Empyreans - there's nothing lacking whatsoever in bass/mids...or anywhere else for that matter...simply superb!  As usual, other elements in the system will also help determine tubes' performance.

Melz tubes do appear to have better emphasis in the lower frequencies than many other equivalents. I found this with their 6H8C driver compared to the 6SN7, but for me, somehow didn't quite match top flight examples of the latter...or some alternatives. Plus, I was unlucky that all three of mine developed problems alas (and which is why F-A themselves stopped offering them as an option). But I sincerely hope you don't have any such problems with the 12S...(but still advise checking with F-A, mon ami)....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH (May 6, 2019)

When I told you guys that my next steps will focus on the quality of the USB input of the DAC I was not joking.

So I have done the following:
- found a good offer for a better USB cable and the choice was Chord Signature Tuned Aray USB 3m







This cable is quite expensive but at a discount of 50% because it was used as a Demo unit in the showroom became more affordable. It is, of course, in perfect condition.

- bought a LPS for ISO Regen (and in the future JCAT Femto) which I am currently testing






And yes, all these powered by the Kemp Power Strip 4 isolated from the rest of the electrical network. And yes, there are audible improvements here, and not small ones. I need some time to test these but I am on the right track.
On Thursday I will receive the JCAT and then plug the new USB cable into it, then decide if I'll keep or not the ISO Regen. I have doubts it will still be needed after I'll add the JCAT but I'll see.
And yes, last but not least, I changed all the stock power cables to Supra Silver plated ones, exception being the Furman. Now it is hard to say which of the upgrades is bringing the biggest improvements, but overall all these were some good steps forward.
After the JCAT I'll stop with any investment and wait 100 hours to see what is happening. What I have to do in addition is to find a better route for the USB cable which, at the moment, is passing though an area with other power cables and stuff.
This will not be an easy task, because honestly I have no idea where to route it, and I have to power devices on the desk, like for example my monitor or speakers, this being the reason for some power cables going upwards on the desk and passing near this USB one.

PS. The sound is cleaner and more detailed but somehow brighter. I guess after all the elements are in place I will realize I'll need a pair of GEC 6AS7G as powers to bring some bass back... Hard is the life of the music lover.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> *Hard is the life of the music lover*.



Some would say _it never ends lol!!_ 

But it looks like you're getting there(?!!)...well done!


----------



## OctavianH

I am on a good road of musical satisfaction but I'll need to buy some anti-depression pills for my wallet otherwise it will commit a violent suicide. 

I am really curious where JCAT will lead me, sine I have quite big expectations from it.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> When I told you guys that my next steps will focus on the quality of the USB input of the DAC I was not joking.
> 
> So I have done the following:
> - found a good offer for a better USB cable and the choice was Chord Signature Tuned Aray USB 3m
> ...





OctavianH said:


> I am on a good road of musical satisfaction but I'll need to buy some anti-depression pills for my wallet otherwise it will commit a violent suicide.
> 
> I am really curious where JCAT will lead me, sine I have quite big expectations from it.


Nice upgrades!, hope they do well for you, the true path to audio enlightenment is paved with many troubles, especially for our wallets, perhaps we should have a be kind to your wallet day! .


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I am on a good road of musical satisfaction but I'll need to buy some* anti-depression pills for my wallet otherwise it will commit a violent* *suicide. *
> 
> I am really curious where JCAT will lead me, sine I have quite big expectations from it.





Scutey said:


> Nice upgrades!, hope they do well for you, the true path to audio enlightenment is paved with many troubles,* especially for our wallets,* perhaps we should have a be kind to your wallet day! .



Well, guys, I myself have found the only solution is to put blinkers on the poor things...pills don't work I'm afraid OH...neither for them _nor_ us lol!! 

ps. It also helps to use those blinkers ourselves...and _especially_ on our better halves! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


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## mordy

How do you click on the forum site to have new posts delivered to your email?


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## OctavianH (May 9, 2019)

Hi @mordy

I guess you have to "subscribe" to the thread (on the top right side) and then you receive all new posts via e-mail. The reversible action would be unsubscribe.
I think there is also an automatic subscribe when you reply to a thread because I receive them without manually subscribing. I hope my answer helps.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Hi @mordy
> 
> I guess you have to "subscribe" to the thread (on the top right side) and then you receive all new posts via e-mail. The reversible action would be unsubscribe.
> I think there is also an automatic subscribe when you reply to a thread because I receive them without manually subscribing. I hope my answer helps.



Hi OH.

It looks like notification can be rather hit and miss alas....sometimes I get them from subscribed threads and 'automatically' as you say, and sometimes not. No rhyme nor reason lol!


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## OctavianH

I do not understand either how this really works. I guess it is a timeout after your last reply to a thread because I stop receiving notifications after some inactivity in a thread. I might be wrong but I would say it is a timeout at, let's say, 2 weeks?


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I do not understand either how this really works. I guess it is a timeout after your last reply to a thread because I stop receiving notifications after some inactivity in a thread. I might be wrong but I would say it is a timeout at, let's say, 2 weeks?



Could well be something like that OH...


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## hypnos1 (May 9, 2019)

Now then guys...after a month or so living with my Meze Empyrean headphones, I would definitely say these and Euforia are simply made for each other.
The Empys bring out a performance from Euforia that I honestly didn't think this amp was capable of, despite being an already superlative one lol! And I'm sure Euforia is also helping these headphones deliver at their best...(with a better cable in situ at least...and the assistance of other system goodies ). The combination of EL11 drivers (albeit mesh-plated ones), and 1x 'balloon' and 1x Philips Dario EL38 powers also helps in this top class overall performance, I'm sure...there isn't a single weakness in any area one can name, or any aspect that I would want/need to 'tweak'.

So it looks like my days of (enjoyable, if sometimes frustrating) DIY tinkering/experimentation could well be at an end...not sure how I feel about that lol!  Still, I do have just one more task left...to adapt a nice-looking EL39, which is apparently even better than the EL38. So my juices can flow for a short while longer yet!! ...(but might well temper my findings, given what has happened to the prices of the early 'balloon' version EL38 since I trumpeted their virtues!!  ). Cheers and HAPPY LISTENING to all...CJ

ps. Get saving up for those Empyreans lol! ...


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## OctavianH (May 10, 2019)

Good evening people,

The Enemy of Noise has returned.  This time by luck. I had a week filled with work, salesman activities and music. I sold my Littledot MK2 alongside with a big collection of tubes, my Chord 2Qute and also some not used cables. For the 2Qute a guy from the same town called me to propose a discount in exchange for 2 products. So basicly instead of giving me the price I was asking he offered me an iFi iGalvanic3.0 + iFi nano iUSB3.0 and a smaller amount of money. After thinking a bit I realised that a mid-end DAC like 2Qute without amplification is not easy to sell here and this exchange might be a good idea, since these iFi products are quite popular here and will be much easier to sell after I test them and the sum will bring me the discount back. So, voila, I have 2 new white boxes here with me:






And inside of them 2 grey devices:






Now, honestly, I feel that I am exagerating with all these filters. I have already an ISO Regen, a JCAT on order and now I received another 2 units.
The good part is that I will be able to test several devices and evaluate the differences and then come back to you guys to inform. Of course, in the end I will decide which one I will keep and I will sell the rest to refund my latest upgrades. Anyway this will happen after my holiday in Lisbon because I need a break from work and also audio. This hobby sometimes needs a break.

What I can do, and this is really interesting, is to chain all of them like:

PC => nano iGalvanic3.0 => nano iUSB3.0 => ISO Regen => Qutest.

And if the JCAT will arrive next week to add it also to the chain. Crazy isn't it? But it seems there is a God of Noiseless Sound and he is bringing me all these devices to test. Incredible.


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## teknorob23 (May 10, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Good evening people,
> 
> The Enemy of Noise has returned.  This time by luck. I had a week filled with work, salesman activities and music. I sold my Littledot MK2 alongside with a big collection of tubes, my Chord 2Qute and also some not used cables. For the 2Qute a guy from the same town called me to propose a discount in exchange for 2 products. So basicly instead of giving me the price I was asking he offered me an iFi iGalvanic3.0 + iFi nano iUSB3.0 and a smaller amount of money. After thinking a bit I realised that a mid-end DAC like 2Qute without amplification is not easy to sell here and this exchange might be a good idea, since these iFi products are quite popular here and will be much easier to sell after I test them and the sum will bring me the discount back. So, voila, I have 2 new white boxes here with me:
> 
> ...



I'll be very interested to hear your findings with this selection of USB cleansers. I had both the ifi's and found their effects to be negligible, but the ISO regen did have noticeable effect on darkening the noise floor but to my ears this was slightly to the detriment of the overall dynamics. In the end i gave up on using computer based source and have found with the auralic aries, and even more so with the SOtM sms200 ultra neo that noise is no longer an issue... sorry i know you've just been on whirlwind upgrade spree, but is this something you've considered?


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## OctavianH (May 10, 2019)

The problem is that I have 2 hobbies: I am a gamer and I like to listen to music. This means I have a quite powerful gaming rig with a lot of storage space for my digital collection (8TB or so).
This means I need a clean way to bring this collection via USB to the DAC. I do not really want to start with streamers or another PC made for audio, it will complicate too much my life. You see, I always start my PC when I am at home and I have a great monitor to use (2K, 27", 144Hz) so I do not want another unit or a player different than my Foobar2000 from this PC. My plan was to add a JCAT (PCIex USB card) and to keep the ISO Regen when needed, but these iFi devices arrived in my possession by chance. Plan is to test them and sell them...

*Later Edit:*
But until then, tests ongoing:


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## DecentLevi (May 10, 2019)

To manage notification settings system-wide, hover your mouse over your HF username, then click "alert preferences", one of many options available under the Your Account section. You can also subscribe / unsubscribe to threads or entire forums at the top right, as mentioned above... but one shalt not unsubscribe from the Euforia thread, as this is one of the most unique and awesome threads out there, Haha. And notification alerts never stop over time, they just may get filtered by the spam settings of your email provider so whitelisting the emails from HF can prevent that.


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> The problem is that I have 2 hobbies: I am a gamer and I like to listen to music. This means I have a quite powerful gaming rig with a lot of storage space for my digital collection (8TB or so).
> This means I need a clean way to bring this collection via USB to the DAC. I do not really want to start with streamers or another PC made for audio, it will complicate too much my life. You see, I always start my PC when I am at home and I have a great monitor to use (2K, 27", 144Hz) so I do not want another unit or a player different than my Foobar2000 from this PC. My plan was to add a JCAT (PCIex USB card) and to keep the ISO Regen when needed, but these iFi devices arrived in my possession by chance. Plan is to test them and sell them...



I completely understand and i think I’ve demonstrated with my own recent bout electric and interconnect upgraditis, that my chosen route is no cure-all either, because although usb based noise is no longer much of an issue, it’s removal had just made me more aware of all the noisy bits in my system. That said the my @hypnos1 inspired/informed diy efforts in electric/ interconnect tidying seem to be working in quite a pleasing way. I had my concerns that everything while darkened was also sounding a bit dulled and muted, but with getting on for 250 hours of run in, it’s all opened up nicely, with particular improvements in separation and micro details. Vocal tracks are cutting through the mix in noisy guitar music like sonic youth and my bloody valentine in away that I’ve never hear before. Ive also been able to hear conclusively that over 50% of cocteau twins lyrics are actually nonsense not just due to Liz fraser’s vocals being lost in guthrie’s Swirling soundscapes. 

Thanks to a merry-go-round of recent additions, tq usb cable, diy power leads on every device, Nva balanced mains conditioner, diy neotech silver rca’s (Replacing tq black Ultra 2), its hard to tell what’s really doing what, but im starting to get a bit of baseline of the overall performance which fortunately as a whole is very pleasing. I’m going to give it another week or so of just enjoying the music before I start a process of closer inspection of the individual bits, by a-b’ing. them with their predecessors, because i’d love to know what’s pulling it’s weight and what isnt.

Thank god for this safe place where these activities are allowed to pass with to many questions re ones sanity. Look forward to hearing your results @OctavianH and @Scutey any further reports on the the furmans performance?


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## OctavianH (May 10, 2019)

Regarding Furman, we all concluded that it added value and quality to our headphone lines. So everyone should try to add at least the small Furman AC210A-E.

Regarding the USB filters, even if my tests are not 1:1 correct because I used:

1) PC -> QED Reference USB A-B cable -> ISO Regen powered by Sbooster -> USPCB adapter (better than many cables) -> Chord Qutest
2) PC -> QED Reference USB A-B cable -> iFi nano iGalvanic3.0 -> included iFi USB 3.0 cable (looks cheap) powered by the included iPower 9V -> iFi nano iUSB3.0 -> included Chord Qutest USB cable (looks cheap) -> Chord Qutest

So we tested ISO Regen with a linear power supply against iGalvanic + iUSB powered by an included supply which cannot match the Sbooster, more than this at the output of iUSB I used a generic cable.
I can repeat the test replacing this generic cable with Chord Signature Tuner Aray one... but anyway I reached @teknorob23 conclusion that Uptone Iso Regen is superior to iFi iGalvanic + iUSB. Maybe iFi *micro* iUSB might be better but I do not have it.

In short terms the filters were:

1) ISO Regen = darker, crisper, more precise but somehow condensed
2) iGalvanic + iUSB (both nano) = airier, more dynamic but with less precision (clarity)

Overall, I prefer the ISO Regen + Sbooster. Some claim that the dynamics problem of the ISO Regen is caused by Sbooster and it will work flawlessly with LPS 1.2 power supply... but I prefer to add a JCAT instead of buy another LPS which needs DC input so, basically you need a LPS to power the LPS 1.2 and then the ISO Regen. Crazy, isn't it?


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## DecentLevi (May 10, 2019)

Crazy indeed, man. A photo of the exact part of the chain in question would be helpful for those interested to visualize it. I myself have been more than satisfied with my chain of USB cleansers: Schiit Wyrd --> iFi ipurifier 2 --> Singxer SU-1 USB interface / reclocker... with my system. But somehow I have a feeling some of it may be a bit overkill if with DSD files.


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I completely understand and i think I’ve demonstrated with my own recent bout electric and interconnect upgraditis, that my chosen route is no cure-all either, because although usb based noise is no longer much of an issue, it’s removal had just made me more aware of all the noisy bits in my system. That said the my @hypnos1 inspired/informed diy efforts in electric/ interconnect tidying seem to be working in quite a pleasing way. I had my concerns that everything while darkened was also sounding a bit dulled and muted, but with getting on for 250 hours of run in, it’s all opened up nicely, with particular improvements in separation and micro details. Vocal tracks are cutting through the mix in noisy guitar music like sonic youth and my bloody valentine in away that I’ve never hear before. Ive also been able to hear conclusively that over 50% of cocteau twins lyrics are actually nonsense not just due to Liz fraser’s vocals being lost in guthrie’s Swirling soundscapes.
> 
> Thanks to a merry-go-round of recent additions, tq usb cable, diy power leads on every device, Nva balanced mains conditioner, diy neotech silver rca’s (Replacing tq black Ultra 2), its hard to tell what’s really doing what, but im starting to get a bit of baseline of the overall performance which fortunately as a whole is very pleasing. I’m going to give it another week or so of just enjoying the music before I start a process of closer inspection of the individual bits, by a-b’ing. them with their predecessors, because i’d love to know what’s pulling it’s weight and what isnt.
> *
> Thank god for this safe place where these activities are allowed to pass with to many questions re ones sanity*. Look forward to hearing your results @OctavianH and @Scutey any further reports on the the furmans performance?



Hey trob...you do realise that at least _partial_ insanity is the minimum requirement in F-A threads?!!! ...(but _full_ is preferred lol ).

Anyway, even though you are being well and truly sucked down this ol' rabbit hole (Heaven help you!), I think you're discovering that going DIY can not only save you plenty of $$$£££, but also prove extremely satisfying and rewarding, non?! And not a little enlightening, I find...So congrats on your impressive work so far...well done! Keep up the good work. 

And as you're finding, changing multiple elements at the same time does make it rather confusing for determining just what is doing what alas! But look forward to the results of any A/Bing you manage to do. And to further confuse matters, _combined_ interactions can also determine final outcome...so how many permutations does that make?...don't count!! ...GOOD LUCK!...

And from the look of things, I'm so glad I ditched USB-based audio systems long ago lol! ...CHEERS...CJ


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## Johnnysound (May 13, 2019)

A whole army of eight EL38s...the tubes are nothing short of “world class” as power pentodes: big, bold, powerful, expressive and yet relaxed, unstrained, musical, capable of subtle detail, explosive dynamics and the most powerful and accurate bass that I have heard from any tube amp.

All this as an integrated amp (without Euforia) but -I have to admit- with the help of outstanding Brimars CV4004 preamp and Mullards “cryo” CV4024 drivers, some of the very best you can find, no kidding.

I frankly tought that _another_  quartet of those wild horses in the Euforia would be too much...but I was wrong.  As H1 said, in Euforia the EL38s work strapped as triodes, and as so, their sonic character is different than as pentodes....even more linear !.  This is confirmed by some old literature that says that this particular EL series was designed from the start as dual purpose (pentode/triode)  tubes, with higher linearity as triodes, and I think this is relevant, since the tubes are working at their top spec as triodes...

 Also read some comments about the sound being a bit “too much” with certain cans...but as a preamp, driving EL38 powers into my hi def speakers, the quartet in Euforia is just pure tube joy, classic triode sound,  unsurpassed by any combo that I know of.  I mean, deep detail, insight into the music, unlimited extension, refinement and that touch of “darkness” that belong to the true classics.

The synergy with the power amp (as you can imagine being the same tubes) was exceptional, by far the best that I have experienced with this setup, and there was this sensory quality, a sound that “feels” good beyond merely “sounding” good, being  three dimensional to the bone as if with a pure triode, SET amp.

Not “perfect” of course, (because there is no such thing)  and I could pick some flaws, but  as a tube “aficionado”  the whole of it is what matters.  I do not care about flaws  when either a big orchestra, a small jazz or baroque ensemble, an acoustic guitar solo, a rock group, all sounded stunningly real....

Also liked a lot the combo of EL32/EL38...a bit more controlled in the bass, very neutral for some types of music like electronic lounge or similar, that can go really wild (and still extremely nice) with the full 38 quartet.  Still, with the EL32 I felt a loss of ultimate transparency, because the sound of the big triodes makes you forget about control, restrictions and the like,  so it is best to let them loose...


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## DecentLevi (May 13, 2019)

After almost a year away, I'm finally 'back in the game'. I actually was way underwhelmed with EL38+El11 drivers but this is totally blowing me away - by far the best one-tube-per-socket setup I've heard so far (EL38 + my alltime favorite 6SN7, the rare RCA 6SN7GT smoked grey glass). And I have yet to even try any other combos with the EL38, let alone multi-combos. I just can't stop listening. It's big, proud, authoritative, real and non-fatiguing.


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## hypnos1 (May 13, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> A whole army of eight EL38s...the tubes are nothing short of “world class” as power pentodes: big, bold, powerful, expressive and yet relaxed, unstrained, musical, capable of subtle detail, explosive dynamics and the most powerful and accurate bass that I have heard from any tube amp.
> 
> All this as an integrated amp (without Euforia) but -I have to admit- with the help of outstanding Brimars CV4004 preamp and Mullards “cryo” CV4024 drivers, some of the very best you can find, no kidding.
> 
> ...



Hi J, good to hear from you again...(thought the gremlins had got to you when your posts kept disappearing lol! ).

And WOW...you certainly do have a nice collection of EL38s there, mon ami!  And as far as I'm concerned, silly (cheap) money for a tube I reckon outperforms even the legendary GEC/Osram family of the 6AS7G...(depending on the rest of the system, of course). I can only begin to imagine the sound your entire complement brings to your speakers..._powerful_ hardly covers it, I should imagine ...especially with those 38s running as pentodes in your integrated!!

And yes, 4x 38s in Euforia can indeed be too much for some systems/ears, which is why I prefer @connieflyer 's discovery of the lighter, better balanced partnership with the EL11 as driver. But I must admit that mine are the _mesh-_plated versions which have a bit more of the EL3N's 'fullness'. Plus, the early large 'balloon', black glass, black plate EL38 (which now commands crazy prices alas!), along with the silver-banded, black plate Philips/Dario versions do seem to have more of the sound you describe using them in _pentode_ mode...ie. the best of both worlds!...(and which would probably explain their meteoric rise in price lol!).

Whatever, this combination now sounds as perfect as one could hope for, especially coming out of the mighty Meze Empyrean headphones...everything in the system obviously now in wonderful synergy (which is the final determining performance factor, of course ).

So all in all, J, I'm glad that you too find the EL38 a very special tube...especially given how many of them now adorn your amps!! 

ps. Perhaps it's just as well the early 38 versions are extremely rare and crazy expensive...I reckon 8 of them would blow the roof right off your pad!!! ...CHEERS!...CJ

pps. Another peek at the setup that, in the words of one of the Meze guys, is definitely "a match made in Heaven"...(ie, along with Hugo2 as DAC) :


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## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> After almost a year away, I'm finally 'back in the game'. I actually was way underwhelmed with EL38+El11 drivers but this is totally blowing me away - by far the best one-tube-per-socket setup I've heard so far (EL38 + my alltime favorite 6SN7, the rare RCA 6SN7GT smoked grey glass). And I have yet to even try any other combos with the EL38, let alone multi-combos. I just can't stop listening. It's big, proud, authoritative, real and non-fatiguing.


Hi DL,
What are all the other bits and pieces around the Euforia?
And my I suggest another low cost addition? A drop of white-out in the little cut-out on the volume knob so that you can see the volume settings easier.......


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## freesole

Ugh, really need a Euforia. If anyone is looking to sell theirs, look no further 

In other news, this thread is very long and I tried to do a search but, is there an adapter needed to fit the EL38's as the power tubes? I'd be interested in an EL38 and 6SN7 pairing when I get my Euforia but wanted to figure out my next steps.


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## hypnos1

freesole said:


> Ugh, really need a Euforia. If anyone is looking to sell theirs, look no further
> 
> In other news, this thread is very long and I tried to do a search but, is there an adapter needed to fit the EL38's as the power tubes? I'd be interested in an EL38 and 6SN7 pairing when I get my Euforia but wanted to figure out my next steps.



Hi freesole...welcome back.

Yes indeed, adapter needed for the EL38...from MrsX at : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...957233?hash=item2f2697fab1:g:jMQAAOSwi3xb9jks

Good luck with your own Euforia...perhaps there might be the odd one or two around when the 'Anniversary Edition' Euforia finally sees the light of day...not too much longer, hopefully .

And yes, the EL38 as powers will save you a _lot_ of money, compared to anything anywhere near. Plus, they bring out the best in a wide variety of drivers lol ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. And as you already know, Euforia makes the Empys sing like a canary!!


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## teknorob23

DIY Peripherals making my Euforia and its colleagues sound better, big thank you again to @Hypnos for technical and moral support.

I had bit of a marathon session and stayed up way too late last night swapping in and out old for new power cables and followed by 3ish hours A-Bing the TQ and DIY rca's to try and get a bit of more of clue on whats doing what. It quickly became clear the Neotech UP-OCC silver/ Eti Kryo plug interconnect, running between the Hugo2 and Euforia is the star of the DIY show. While not cheap at £100 per metre and 175 for the plugs, it has shown a fairly clean set of heels to the outstanding (£430) Tellurium Q Black Ultra 2 in almost every area of performance, separation is stunning and while it has all the clarity you' might expect or hope for from silver, it also has a beautifully natural tone and texture which i'd normally associate with good copper cables, all of which is bit mind twisting.. in a good way.

The ELEC Audio UP OCC /MS HD Power/ Oyaide mains cables (i've made 4 each at about £75) have about 400 hours on them, so probably not completely burned in yet, but they're have a significant if more subtle effect on proceedings. While not as "look at me" as the interconnects, they're giving a noticeable improvement compared to both the stock and MCRU cables. The darker sound floor and consequent ability to hear more of everything is a real improvement. I was initially concerned everything sounded a bit compressed and undynamic, but 2 weeks its opened up almost completely. The Euforia seems to be particularly benefitting from the change, not that it was noisy before, but its completely silent now and i'm still getting all the EL38/11 loveliness but i'm also hearing all sorts of little details i've not heard before and i'm sure the layering/ separation is has improved too

I still cant really comment on the Nene Valley Audio Balance Mains conditioner, but i will try to run some comparisons at the weekend, so far i'm really pleased and can highly recommend taking the the DIY plunge. The money saving is great, but the satisfaction of making something that sounds as good or better than off the peg equivalents is the really pleasing bit, i just wish i needed to make more, but i've just the got the complicated one, the headphone cable to do and thats going to be it..... for a while


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## DecentLevi (May 14, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> What are all the other bits and pieces around the Euforia?
> And my I suggest another low cost addition? A drop of white-out in the little cut-out on the volume knob so that you can see the volume settings easier.......



Cool to hear from you again. The other things you may see around my Euforia were the 3-part USB 'cleanser' (LOL) I was mentioning: Wyrd --> iPurifier2 --> Singxer SU1 --> Modi 2 Multibit DAC via coax cable then to Euforia via silver RCA cable. Off to the side are my 6x multi adapter with its' external transformer, and Koss ESP950 electrostat headphone system with an upgraded Stax SRM1 MK2 e-stat amp which works wonderfully for movies and atmospheric/noise recordings with Euforia as a preamp, and finally to the left is my Little Labs Monotor SS amp which though inferior is more transportable and has it's place for neutral studio monitoring.

All the above are what I've had since early last year. And of course I've got a bunch of tubes and now 6 decent quality EL38's which I've just finished cleaning up fairly well.

All held up by a stealthy new work table I picked up from a local Seattle DIY table maker I found very cheap from Craigslist, and below it is the $2800 TOTL Furman power conditioner feeding everything that I got on sale half off. It seems to still be burning in because though not yet having done an A/B, I also haven't noticed any improvement yet.

Granted there is a newer Singxer all the way to SU-6, newer Modi Multibit and newer iPurifier but how much better sound can one really get by further upgrading a digital stream which is already fed by 3 components. There may still be more potential yet with cable upgrades but for now I think I've got a system that is sure to amaze for quite some time, especially with multi-combos I've yet to try.


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> DIY Peripherals making my Euforia and its colleagues sound better, big thank you again to @Hypnos for technical and moral support.
> 
> I had bit of a marathon session and stayed up way too late last night swapping in and out old for new power cables and followed by 3ish hours A-Bing the TQ and DIY rca's to try and get a bit of more of clue on whats doing what. It quickly became clear the Neotech UP-OCC silver/ Eti Kryo plug interconnect, running between the Hugo2 and Euforia is the star of the DIY show. While not cheap at £100 per metre and 175 for the plugs, it has shown a fairly clean set of heels to the outstanding (£430) Tellurium Q Black Ultra 2 in almost every area of performance, separation is stunning and while it has all the clarity you' might expect or hope for from silver, it also has a beautifully natural tone and texture which i'd normally associate with good copper cables, all of which is bit mind twisting.. in a good way.
> 
> ...



Hi trob.

Glad to hear you not only succeeded in your DIY projects, but also that you too find one can bask in the satisfaction of outperforming very expensive commercial products, and at a fraction of the cost lol!  And yes, this can become even more addictive than most other aspects of this hobby!! 

With the headphone cable, there are more difficult decisions to be made alas...for example, does one want a nice 'bendy' cable, or is a stiffer one acceptable? The former is easiest achieved using stranded wire(s)...but stiffer _solid _is generally regarded as superior, sonically. I personally used 1x length of Neotech AWG 24 and 1x AWG 26 UP-OCC silver, plus 1 of AWG 24 copper _*per polarity*_...ie 12 in all!! (Although AWG 26 and 28 silver - plus the copper -  would be a good bit cheaper, and probably just as good lol). And I only lightly twist them together, which does make for a rather stiff cable...but using longer wire lengths would enable proper braiding and thus be more flexible (but much more fiddly, of course...not to mention more expensive! ).

So, GOOD LUCK mon ami!! ...(any questions, let me know...)...CJ


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## Johnnysound (May 16, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J, good to hear from you again...(thought the gremlins had got to you when your posts kept disappearing lol! ).
> 
> And WOW...you certainly do have a nice collection of EL38s there, mon ami!  And as far as I'm concerned, silly (cheap) money for a tube I reckon outperforms even the legendary GEC/Osram family of the 6AS7G...(depending on the rest of the system, of course). I can only begin to imagine the sound your entire complement brings to your speakers..._powerful_ hardly covers it, I should imagine ...especially with those 38s running as pentodes in your integrated!!
> 
> ...



Hey H1, the EL38 is indeed a _very_ _special_ tube, and  -I have to say- that your  “discovery” of this tube for Euforia,  for headphone duties, opened (for me) a whole new level of power amplification _and_ top notch pre amplification with Euforia.

So yes, the quartet can be kind of wild and OTT sometimes with cans, but in a pre/power configuration  there are other stages, cables, circuits, speakers and a room to deal with, so the extra definition is simply a blessing.   The 4 EL 38s (triodes) really stand out in the OTL preamp, with a beautifully musical and commanding performance.  The synergy was stunning, exemplary,  and I was amazed with the delicacy and musical detail of the tubes in triode mode compared to the powerful personality of the same tubes as pentodes.  By the way, they run barely warm in Euforia, and quite hot as powers...

Not to mention the Euforia with 4 x EL38s driving my two NAD mono _solid_ _state_ amps, capable of  450 watt peaks.  Fantastic.  The word is total, absolute domination of the Euforia sound over the amps (that sounded like tube amps) and its powerful, unrestricted OTL output generated such enormous dynamic swings and awesome bass to the point of being dangerous to my speakers !!  I was shure to set the amps at 1/4 power...more than enough.  But the danger was part of the fun...rock & roll sounded like a live concert,  and any music came clean, clear, smooth, “tube like”.  My SS amps never sounded better.  In fact, I have tried many quite good preamps, but nothing like this.  The OTLs do have a special synergy with SS amps, that’s for sure, and I don’t know why, there must be some technical reasons.

Anyway, the magic of the “full tube” setup is another matter,  and at this level of amplification the question is how to optimize the rest of your gear to take full advantage  of it...


----------



## DecentLevi (May 16, 2019)

I'm happy to announce impressions of EL38 pairings with top-tier driver / power tubes

*EL38 AS POWERS *

EL38 + RCA 6SN7GT (smoked grey glass): vivid, lifelike, robust and detailed
EL38 + Valvo EL12: superb fidelity but a touch too euphonic
EL38 + EL11: a fairly 'tubey' / euphonic and clinically detailed sound, yet with super fidelity
EL38 + EL38 Everything is right, but somehow not surpassing other best combos I've tried so far. Outlandishly microphonic
EL38 + EL32: A revelation! Excels in every aspect, with that special 'x-factor' of energy and emotion. More detailed and airy than quad of EL38. A somewhat 'intricate' / 'delicate' sound and modestly bright so SUPERB with slightly darker headphones


*EL38 AS DRIVERS*

Quad 6BL7 + EL38: Superb fidelity with that 'x-factor'. Relism and refinement in spades, good soundstage, separation. Slightly bright and comparable but barely trailing the EL38 + EL32 pairing
GEC 6AS7G + EL38: Realistic and vivid, velvety, full bodied and pristine, yet somehow something leaving something to be desired in the realm of dynamics / slam (as usual)
Mullard 6080 + EL38 passive, nothing stands out
GEC 6080 + EL38: great, linear and refined sound with top notch fidelity, but somehow lacking to the Bendix 6080 pairing
Benxix 6080 _(slotted graphite plates) _+ EL38: Absolute world-class performer!!! Front row seat to unwavering sonic delight. Airy, vivid, detailed, properly balanced performance, impactful, snappy, authoritative and weighty with perfect tonality, layering and good soundstange. MIND BLOWING, UNRIVALED for single-tube combinations



While the Bendix 6080 slotted graphite plates are quite an exceptional and unique tube, I've never heard them perform to such great heights until paired with the EL38's. It's a marvelous world class combination and after literally years experimenting is by a great margin the best single-tube per socket combination I've heard to date on either Elise or Euforia. Do note however YMMV depending on one's system and hearing; though as usual I had put the above all through fairly thorough testing (multiple takes with multiple headphones and various test songs and comparisons of the top contenders.)


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hey H1, the EL38 is indeed a _very_ _special_ tube, and  -I have to say- that your  “discovery” of this tube for Euforia,  for headphone duties, opened (for me) a whole new level of power amplification _and_ top notch triode pre amplification with Euforia.
> 
> So yes, the quartet can be kind of wild and OTT sometimes with cans, but in a pre/power configuration  there are other stages, cables, circuits, speakers and a room to deal with, so the extra definition is simply a blessing.   The 4 EL 38s (triodes) really stand out in the OTL preamp, with a beautifully musical and commanding performance.  The synergy was stunning, exemplary,  and I was amazed with the delicacy and musical detail of the tubes in triode mode compared to the powerful personality of the same tubes as pentodes.  By the way, they run barely warm in Euforia, and quite hot as powers...
> 
> ...



I take it then, J, that you rather like these EL38s lol?! ...really happy for you. (Methinks your poor ticker would have a bit of trouble coping with such a collection of the _earlier_ large bottle version, and/or the silver-banded, black glass Philips/Darios, being yet another notch up the ladder!! ...but keep a look out nonetheless lol...).

And yes indeed, my Euforia setup also does wonders as preamp for my own SSamp...the Vincent SV121 integrated being no slouch already by any means. But 4x EL38s are a bit much for my poor (smallish) Dynaudio speakers!! Another plus from using the more 'delicate' EL11 drivers.

And yes again, at this sort of performance level, _source_ becomes much more critical IMHO...along with _cables_. For this reason I still much prefer _top flight _CD drive delivery (along with hi-end DAC of course!).  Or, better still, something like the Naim UnitiCore, that rips from its own exceptional CD drive straight to its internal SSD drive... (also having external USB drive function for hi-res files). 
Via this source,the quality from _well recorded_ CD is often _better_ than a lot of of so-called hi-res fare! But feed it _good_ hi-res material, and the sound can be quite stunning...especially through top flight headphones .

So, good luck with your own trials...and look forward to the results you hinted at!


----------



## hypnos1 (May 16, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I'm happy to announce impressions of EL38 pairings with top-tier driver / power tubes
> 
> *EL38 AS POWERS *
> 
> ...



Hi DL...interesting results, that certainly highlight the versatility of the EL38. And just how different will be the findings for each individual's system/hearing/preferences lol! 

I am a little concerned, however, about a couple of factors that might possibly have skewed your results somewhat...

Firstly, you mentioned bad _microphonics_ from using 4x EL38s.... I, and others, haven't experienced this at all - from good tubes (and adapters) that is! - and would therefore indicate something is very wrong somewhere!

Secondly - as I've alerted folks to in the past - going from 6SN7/6AS7G tubes to the EL family (either as driver or power) can often require a day or so for the amp to readjust properly to the different tube(s). And then there's the time needed for the _brain_ to readjust to the different presentation. I personally wouldn't be at all happy with trying to rely on my own findings from such a plethora of different tube combinations, unless over an _extremely _long period of time...especially as one's findings can vary even when going back later to the_ same_ combo, which would also be necessary as confirmation lol!!  Plus, different headphones _must_ give different results...no question!

So I'm sorry DL, but your listing can only be a _very_ rough guide indeed. But as usual, at least food for anyone who wishes to try their own different combinations...as with anyone else's findings, including my own!


----------



## connieflyer

I have noticed this in the past, that going back to el38 always took about 10-12  hours to come back to full splendor


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## hypnos1

Hey @DecentLevi ...remember that 2x EL38s plus 2x 6080s/6AS7gs make a heater current draw of 7.8A, which is pushing the trafo even though it may have a certain headroom, and the 38s running cooler than 6SN7s lol....not really recommended, I’m afraid...


----------



## Tunkejazz

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @DecentLevi ...remember that 2x EL38s plus 2x 6080s/6AS7gs make a heater current draw of 7.8A, which is pushing the trafo even though it may have a certain headroom, and the 38s running cooler than 6SN7s lol....not really recommended, I’m afraid...



Please, could you remind me what was the maximum total current draw that is recommended by the manufacturer?


----------



## Tunkejazz

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Tunkejazz. Thanks for popping in to say hello!
> 
> Haven't heard many folks not very happy with the bass from Euforia, and suspect that - as usual - so much depends on the rest of the system also....coupled with the actual tubes used. If you want _loads_ of bass, the Mullard ECC31 *driver* (needs adapter) delivers in spades. But as mordy says, the EL38 *power *(with adapter) is the most impressive tube I've adapted so far...not only for _quantity_ of bass - with better detail/control than the ECC31 - but right across the board.
> 
> ...



Hello!
my apologies for taking so long to answer, I have been abroad 2 weeks for work.

Thank you very much for the advise!
I investigated a bit more the issue. It turns out that things got a lot better 1h after I turned the amp on. So it must have been a warm up effect.
The weird part is that I did not notice this issue in the past with similar tubes. Could it be that they are ageing?

Now I am curious about the EL38. For once I am in the right country to order these tubes, given that most sellers are based in UK so no import taxes (for now).
Shall I assume that EL38 should work fine with any 6SN7 tube?


----------



## leftside

OctavianH said:


> The problem is that I have 2 hobbies: I am a gamer and I like to listen to music. This means I have a quite powerful gaming rig with a lot of storage space for my digital collection (8TB or so).
> This means I need a clean way to bring this collection via USB to the DAC. I do not really want to start with streamers or another PC made for audio, it will complicate too much my life.


I'm also a gamer and have a powerful gaming rig that also acts as a music transport and for streaming Netflix/watching downloaded movies. BlueJeans USB cable out of the back of the PC and straight into the DAC. Job done. No noise. This PC uses an SSD drive to store music files (and a separate SSD drive for games), is liquid cooled, and has the quietest fans and quietest Nvidia MSI GTX 1080 graphics card I could find. If this machine made even a hint of noise there would be complaints from the other party who also uses this room... And the only noise I can ever hear through headphones is if there is a noisy tube in the headphone amp. This is also when using the very sensitive Focal Stellia (they will detect even the slightest noise).

They techy in me would definitely like to play with all these gadgets I see on here and Computer Audiophile, but as I can't hear any noise now then it's pretty low on my list of priorities.


----------



## triggsviola

leftside said:


> I'm also a gamer and have a powerful gaming rig that also acts as a music transport and for streaming Netflix/watching downloaded movies. BlueJeans USB cable out of the back of the PC and straight into the DAC. Job done. No noise. This PC uses an SSD drive to store music files (and a separate SSD drive for games), is liquid cooled, and has the quietest fans and quietest Nvidia MSI GTX 1080 graphics card I could find. If this machine made even a hint of noise there would be complaints from the other party who also uses this room... And the only noise I can ever hear through headphones is if there is a noisy tube in the headphone amp. This is also when using the very sensitive Focal Stellia (they will detect even the slightest noise).
> 
> They techy in me would definitely like to play with all these gadgets I see on here and Computer Audiophile, but as I can't hear any noise now then it's pretty low on my list of priorities.



Before I got my Yggy, I was using the DAC on my Jotunheim amp/DAC to feed my Euforia. Lots of noise from the computer. Every time I moved the mouse, there was a weird electonic noise. I bought an Eitr and it totally cleaned the computer noise.


----------



## leftside

triggsviola said:


> Before I got my Yggy, I was using the DAC on my Jotunheim amp/DAC to feed my Euforia. Lots of noise from the computer. Every time I moved the mouse, there was a weird electonic noise. I bought an Eitr and it totally cleaned the computer noise.


If that happened to me I’d definitely be looking for a solution. Glad you found one. Post bookmarked just in case this ever does happen to me in the future. Thanks.


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## hypnos1 (May 16, 2019)

Tunkejazz said:


> Please, could you remind me what was the maximum total current draw that is recommended by the manufacturer?





Tunkejazz said:


> Hello!
> my apologies for taking so long to answer, I have been abroad 2 weeks for work.
> 
> Thank you very much for the advise!
> ...



Hi Tunkejazz...no problem re. delay...there is indeed life outside this hobby of ours - sometimes... (or is there lol?!! ).

Our amps are configured for 6.2A heater current draw, but it's been accepted that 7A should be OK. Anything more would certainly be frowned upon by F-A, warranty-wise...and definitely not be recommended by me!!

I haven't heard of any real problems from using 6SN7 drivers and EL38 powers...but I personally have always found that triode-strapped pentodes synergise best when used together. But as usual, to each his own...

Good to hear you may be in a better position for sourcing your own EL38s....they really are an amazing tube, especially at the price one can occasionally still find. There is in fact a French site that has them for a very reasonable 29 euros each : http://www.e44.com/composants/composants-actifs/tubes-electroniques/pentode/tube-electronique-el38-cv450-6cn6-5p29-pentode-8-pins-EL38-TUBE.html 
Just email them for further info re. shipping etc.

Re. improvements in tube performance, many will indeed be better after a warm up period, but this usually needs just 10 to 20 minutes (in our amps). Anything longer would indicate that the tube is in fact still _burning in_, in which case it will undoubtedly continue to improve for a good while longer yet!! 

Good luck with your tube hunting!...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 16, 2019)

Hello CJ, I agree with you about the El tubes Synergy seems to be best using El tubes for drivers and Powers. For the last week or so I have been using the mullard el38. As powers and I had run across a pair of Tung Sol 6sn7 gtb, these were made and marked as GTB but we're actually the GT tube as they had run out of the GTB and substituted the GT tube with black plates I put them away and forgot about them. Found them put them in and after burn in this combination sounds absolutely stunning. I was surprised how well the Synergy work between the two tube types. I have tried other 6sn7 including the RCA gray 1947 variety which I found very well played. But these tung-sol are really something else. Next week I will be going back to all El tubes let them burn in for a few days or so and see if I see an improvement or if they sound about the same.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, I agree with you about the El tubes Synergy seems to be best using El tubes for drivers and Powers. For the last week or so I have been using the mullard el38. As powers and I had run across a pair of Tung Sol 6sn7 gtb, these were made and marked as GTB but we're actually the GT tube as they had run out of the GTB and substituted the GT tube with black plates I put them away and forgot about them. Found them put them in and after burn in this combination sounds absolutely stunning. I was surprised how well the Synergy work between the two tube types. I have tried other 6sn7 including the RCA gray 1947 variety which I found very well played. But these tung-sol are really something else. Next week I will be going back to all El tubes let them burn in for a few days or so and see if I see an improvement or if they sound about the same.


Hi CF,
Interesting to read about the mislabeled TS black plate tubes. Could you post a picture? The TS BGRP go for crazy prices nowadays....


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## DecentLevi (May 16, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @DecentLevi ...remember that 2x EL38s plus 2x 6080s/6AS7gs make a heater current draw of 7.8A, which is pushing the trafo even though it may have a certain headroom, and the 38s running cooler than 6SN7s lol....not really recommended, I’m afraid...


Oh that's right the EL38 uses a good bit more than the the EL32, and does seem to be performing closer to proper operating points. At about 1ah above the recommended voltage draw I would use this one sparingly (Bendix 6080 + EL38), or at least check for overheating... this does raise the question however: even if a tube is rated to draw a certain amount of current above what device is designed for; will the amp front this extra amount or will it stop at the max load so that extra current is not produced anyway? (If) the latter is true, there may be more flexibility than thought for for small overages.

Certainly this is also an example of good (excellent) synergy between two tube types as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL...interesting results, that certainly highlight the versatility of the EL38. And just how different will be the findings for each individual's system/hearing/preferences lol!
> 
> I am a little concerned, however, about a couple of factors that might possibly have skewed your results somewhat...
> 
> ...



RE microphonics with 4x 38, my entire system is in top flight condition and I recently inspected the Euforia's interior to be pristine, perhaps it could be from burn-in time or the black socket savers.

Also you and CF mentioned about 10-12 hours to allow EL tubes to come into their own, or even a day. Wouldn't that be overshooting the recommended session use time for the amp without resting period? Alas giving 10+ hours for each tube combination isn't practical for me as a busy professional with literally hundreds of possible tube combinations so I give it a go after 10 minutes and expect the sonic characteristics of a tube to remain _(largely)_ the same over their lifetime, as has been my experience over the years.

Agreed headphones make a big difference in the output result so I note which sound better with certain pairings and one can find different results accordingly too


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> RE microphonics with 4x 38, my entire system is in top flight condition and I recently inspected the Euforia's interior to be pristine, perhaps it could be from burn-in time or the black socket savers.
> 
> Also you and CF mentioned about 10-12 hours to allow EL tubes to come into their own, or even a day. Wouldn't that be overshooting the recommended session use time for the amp without resting period? Alas giving 10+ hours for each tube combination isn't practical for me as a busy professional with literally hundreds of possible tube combinations so I give it a go after 10 minutes and expect the sonic characteristics of a tube to remain _(largely)_ the same over their lifetime, as has been my experience over the years.
> 
> Agreed headphones make a big difference in the output result so I note which sound better with certain pairings and one can find different results accordingly too



Hi DL.

Re. microphonics, it would appear then that either tube(s) or adapters (or both!) are the culprit. Assuming it doesn't subside after a few hours... if tube(s), silicone rings or tape might cure/reduce, but is likely to be a problem eventually alas. If adapter, it needs to be returned as faulty!

Re. the time needed to be allowed inbetween changing from conventional tubes to the ELs, this is due mostly to the amp needing to readjust to their different requirements (not necessarily in one long session!)...but also, as I mentioned, time for the _brain_ to readjust to a different sound presentation (as is generally recognised by those more experienced in this area). This is, of course, totally distinct from a tube's _sonic characteristics _lol!! 

So I'm sorry DL, but 10 mins is nowhere near long enough to allow for such requirements, and will not produce anything like accurate or valid conclusions.._.especially_ when changing between different tube families (and would only attract derision from other forums not as 'charitable' as ours alas! ).

And re. your previous question about current draw, the heater demand is constant of course, determined by each tube's set requirement...and will therefore be a constant load on the transformer, not variable. So caution is advised!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (May 17, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DL.
> 
> Re. microphonics, it would appear then that either tube(s) or adapters (or both!) are the culprit. Assuming it doesn't subside after a few hours... if tube(s), silicone rings or tape might cure/reduce, but is likely to be a problem eventually alas. If adapter, it needs to be returned as faulty!
> 
> ...


The notion of an amp taking perhaps 10 hours to adjust from one tube class to another is an interesting one, however producing a measurable difference would be difficult, so until then this one is based on perception or speculation. As I've switched out between various EL and other tube classes for several years I have personally never noticed any changes coming into effect after that many hours; moreover with straight burn-in with at least seven 12 hour burn in periods with the likes of EL3N and EL12 for instance for me had brought maybe a nuance change at best. I'm not completely discrediting the concept of time for an amp to bias and tube burn in, and I even believe it can make a difference for your system and gear and could be something I would notice too, and there are other variables too like exact tube model - but for me I feel comfortable with much shorter periods of time producing a valid result; and on numerous occasions other users on this and other threads have agreed with my findings. Being that it's not measured either your or my opinion could be correct, the important thing is what sounds best on your system.

I have however heard significant difference with hardware burn-in such as the amp itself and external transformers, so I'm waiting several weeks to report anything solid with the effects of my power conditioner on the system.


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## hypnos1 (May 17, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, I agree with you about the El tubes Synergy seems to be best using El tubes for drivers and Powers. For the last week or so I have been using the mullard el38. As powers and I had run across a pair of Tung Sol 6sn7 gtb, these were made and marked as GTB but we're actually the GT tube as they had run out of the GTB and substituted the GT tube with black plates I put them away and forgot about them. Found them put them in and after burn in this combination sounds absolutely stunning. I was surprised how well the Synergy work between the two tube types. I have tried other 6sn7 including the RCA gray 1947 variety which I found very well played. But these tung-sol are really something else. Next week I will be going back to all El tubes let them burn in for a few days or so and see if I see an improvement or if they sound about the same.



Hi cf.

Good to hear that the EL38s as powers are bringing out the best in a variety of 6SN7 drivers also...will be good news for those whose systems/ears are not best suited to drivers of the EL family, or when a different flavour is wanted lol! 

ps. Those Tung-Sols wouldn't perchance be the famed 'Black Glass Round Plate' at all? If so, you were mighty lucky!!


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## Johnnysound (May 18, 2019)

Continuing with the “trials” on my setup and (as suggested by H1)  I rolled in as drivers  this pair of rare, late forties TFK EL11 “black glass” tubes.  And man, they look & sound really nice.  Yes, _different_ from EL38s, but with their own virtues and sound signature which is classic Telefunken: neutral, detailed, smooth, very even across all frequencies, making them excellent drivers to control the somewhat “wild” nature of the 38s, specially in the bass...

And yes again, the combo sounded sweet, highly musical and far more suitable for my AT headphones than the quartet of 38s, that overwhelmed the cans more often than not...

However,  in strictly preamp duties, and while the above combo performed flawlessly, in my setup the 4 plus 4 EL38s (preamp triodes/power pentodes) was superior in terms of ultimate definition, perhaps because of the exemplary synergy between them. In short, it sounded like a single, big tube amp rather than separate components. The kind of amp that would cost a LOT of money. I don’t  know how to define it:  coherency, sonic integrity ?  you got the picture.

 The bass was so powerful as to push my pair of relatively big LSA 2 floorstanders close to their limit (I am sure that smaller speakers will not do it) and certainly I never felt the need to use my pair of Yamaha NS 300W servo amplified subwoofers.

BTW, the 10 inch, long throw subs can go way  _lower _of course_, _and using them was amazing:  the 38s can hit tight & clean down to about 45 hz or so,  and the subs blended perfectly with the tube amp to super deep and  yet musical bass.  Not the “room shaking” variety of subs, but specially suited for mating with tube amps...great pieces to complement a tube setup, for their reasonable price.

And since I am “off topic” (LOL) you may wonder how I connected the pair of subs.  Not to the tube amps of course (not a good idea) but to the second set of line outs on my Wyred4Sound DAC.  I wanted to precisely control the amount of bass without touching the sub controls, so I used separate bass lines to a Promitheus Audio TVC passive preamp before the subs.  The TVC preamps sound great, yes, but I much prefer the sound of tubes.  OTOH, their bandwidth is kind of unlimited, and, specially, are capable of the deepest bass you will ever experience with any preamp, period. And it is not dependent on volume, it is equally deep at low levels.  Now dedicated to it, the TVC delivers amazing subterranean feelings.  Another suggestion for tube setups....cheers to all


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## hypnos1 (May 18, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Continuing with the “trials” in my setup and (as suggested by H1)  I rolled in as drivers of the EL38s this pair of rare, late forties TFK EL11 “black glass”.  And man, they look & sound really nice.  Yes, _different_ from EL38s, but with their own virtues and sound signature which is classic Telefunken: neutral, detailed, smooth, very even across all frequencies, making them excellent drivers to control the somewhat “wild” nature of the 38s, specially in the bass...
> 
> And yes again, the combo sounded sweet, highly musical and far more suitable for my AT headphones than the quartet of 38s, that overwhelmed the cans more often than not...
> 
> ...



Hi J...and WOW, those TFKs certainly do look 'Black Beauties' lol . And glad too that they sound good...methinks you were lucky with those tubes, as the TFK EL11 in particular appears to have been a rather hit and miss affair alas! And obviously a better bet for your ATs.

I can only imagine the sound from your floorstanders and 8x EL38s....and yep, no real need for subwoofers I should think, unless wanting to rattle the windows lol!...(mine almost do with just 2 as powers in preamp duties to my SS amp and much smaller Dynaudios!! ). Perhaps something like you mentioned could be the answer! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## teknorob23 (May 18, 2019)

@hypnos1...preferred testing kit for FA’s Saturday teaser post


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## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> Tease
> https://www.facebook.com/186733015402071/posts/469337827141587?s=535605630&sfns=mo


Lol you beat me to it!, was just about to post that link myself .


----------



## connieflyer

Same here, nice looking amp,


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## Scutey

I know it's only pre-production but, visually, it's a radical change.


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## teknorob23 (May 18, 2019)

Scutey said:


> I know it's only pre-production but, visually, it's a radical change.



Obvs i dont know for sure, but seeing as its a prototype i'd assume this a mule chassis and the final amp will likely look completely different. I've never known a hifi manufacturer to put out pre-production pics of an actual product until its 99.99% there when they send out test review samples, but even then they're usually cosmetically identical to the finished article.


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## hypnos1 (May 18, 2019)

Hey guys, you've all beaten me to it lol!...(not that I have much to do with Facebook, Twitter etc. I'm afraid ).

It sure is coming along nicely, and if the final appearance is anything like Michal Feliks's early design concept, it should be even more stunning!  Apparently, getting everything just right with the STAX output has been holding things up somewhat, and last I heard, it's now looking like a towards the end of the year launch...sadly . But I know they want to make sure everything is perfect beforehand...and I don't blame them! This will surely be an amp right up there with the best of them...and I doubt there are in fact many that can boast a first class headphone output for both conventional _and_ electrostatic cans..._plus_ what will surely also be a first class _speaker_ amp. For those who can afford it (!), I reckon this will be a must-have product lol...(anyone fancy trying a bit of bank robbery at all?!! )...am drooling already...CJ

ps. @teknorob23 ...from the early concept I mentioned, I reckon you're dead on the money lol!


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## connieflyer

I had been seriously considering this amp, but now have to wait another year, I am too old to bother.  Would not need nor use the electro-static section and I have a very capable home theater based on Anthem amp. Picked that amp while waiting for this amp.  Looks like it will be quite capable. I am waiting to see the anniversary Euforia, I am still very interested in this.  Would have to sell my Euforia but that won't be a problem, my Elise sold in a week so don't see a wait for that. And of course there is still the Meze headphone upgrade!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I had been seriously considering this amp, but now have to wait another year, I am too old to bother.  Would not need nor use the electro-static section and I have a very capable home theater based on Anthem amp. Picked that amp while waiting for this amp.  Looks like it will be quite capable. I am waiting to see the anniversary Euforia, I am still very interested in this.  Would have to sell my Euforia but that won't be a problem, my Elise sold in a week so don't see a wait for that. And of course there is still the Meze headphone upgrade!



Hey cf...never too old to spoil oneself lol!  And the STAX hp output will be an optional extra...thank goodness (but the price will still be pretty eye-watering, no doubt!!).

It does sound like you wouldn't need the speaker amp function either, so perhaps the Empyreans might just fulfill the spoil factor...along with the Anniversary Edition Euforia...perhaps!! 

Cheers for now and here's wishing all a great weekend...with plenty of quality Euforia listening time!...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 18, 2019)

Well CJ, the anniversary amp is definitely on the table, and the Meze head phones are also. I'm said I'm too old to wait for that amp but not necessarily wait for something a little sooner!


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## OctavianH

Back in business from sunny Lisbon, which honestly was too sunny for me (40C in May, I wonder what temps they have in August), and I see that you already discuss the next F.A. amp. For me this amp looks like running after 4 rabbits: HP amp, speakers amp and also electrostatic hp amp... and the 4th rabbit is a huge price to include all of these. I wonder how many are using all these features in the same amp, because for me, honestly, the perfect DAC was Qutest because it was sold only with the function I needed. We will see in time how many will buy it and use it as designed. I use in Elise only the HP function and the pre-amp outputs were never used...


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## connieflyer (May 19, 2019)

Hi CJ, yes the Tung Sol were round plate black glass, they made a nice combo with the El 38's.  I had a good friend that was into tube amps over they other day, and he loved them. He had been looking for those TS tubes for a long time, $500 a pair, was more than he was willing to spend, when available so the search went on.  I asked him what a fair price for  him would be, he suggested $350 for the pair, and now I am back to using all El tubes.  I actually preferred the El 11 to the TSRP, not by a lot but for l me, they sounded better with my current equipment. He was happy as could be, of course, promised to pay next week, and if he does, I don't suppose I will be invited over for dinner any time soon, by his wife!  Such is friendship. They will bring him more joy than I just sitting in the tube collection. Decided to start back with the El 32 as drivers, good , then the EL 38 quad, like it better, and in a few days go back to the El 11 as drivers, and see if I still like that better.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ, yes the Tung Sol were round plate black glass, they made a nice combo with the El 38's.  I had a good friend that was into tube amps over they other day, and he loved them. He had been looking for those TS tubes for a long time, $500 a pair, was more than he was willing to spend, when available so the search went on.  I asked him what a fair price for  him would be, he suggested $350 for the pair, and now I am back to using all El tubes.  I actually preferred the El 11 to the TSRP, not by a lot but for l me, they sounded better with my current equipment. He was happy as could be, of course, promised to pay next week, and if he does, I don't suppose I will be invited over for dinner any time soon, by his wife!  Such is friendship. They will bring him more joy than I just sitting in the tube collection. Decided to start back with the El 32 as drivers, good , then the EL 38 quad, like it better, and in a few days go back to the El 11 as drivers, and see if I still like that better.



Aha cf...was wondering how you were getting on with those TungSols. BGRPs?...6SN7s don't come much better than that, by all accounts lol . 

Anyway, it looks like they were a good investment for you at least, even if not an EL11 killer!...as you say - _in your system_. I personally got so fed up with going back to previously best-performing tubes and getting an initial 'hey, why did I ever leave these behind?' reaction, only to be reminded after _prolonged_ listening exactly just _why!!_ There was always something 'missing' in the overall performance. There wasn't the same balance in _all_ aspects of delivery, and could see how easily one can be seduced by emphasis in one or more areas at the expense of the _whole_. So, no more going back for me! 

I too will be revisiting the EL38 quad, now I have my Empyreans...but am lucky to have 4x earlier silver-banded Philips/Darios. Four of the later, clear glass 38s were always pipped at the post by your suggestion to use the EL11 drivers...fabulous synergy....CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Hello CJ, d Tung Sol round plate were some of the best I have ever heard for the six sn7 family. But to me, with my equipment, they did not equal the quad El 38 mallards. Yesterday I changed back to the ER 11 and notice that they were a little bit smoother so today I'm going to switch back to the quad 38 and see if I am missing that smoothness or if I prefer this quad more. Take several hours of listening to notice and confirm your first impressions. But good luck for yourself with the quad dl38 see what you think of them with the new headphones I'm sure they're going to sound different then when you were using the buyer T1. Good luck either way my friend


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, d Tung Sol round plate were some of the best I have ever heard for the six sn7 family. But to me, with my equipment, they did not equal the quad El 38 mallards. Yesterday I changed back to the ER 11 and notice that they were a little bit smoother so today I'm going to switch back to the quad 38 and see if I am missing that smoothness or if I prefer this quad more. Take several hours of listening to notice and confirm your first impressions. But good luck for yourself with the quad dl38 see what you think of them with the new headphones I'm sure they're going to sound different then when you were using the buyer T1. Good luck either way my friend



Yo cf...I know 4x EL38s can be rather overpowering/overwhelming in some systems, but I did enjoy the combo when I first trialled them, so I am indeed looking forward to trying the quartet once more (much more so than going back to any other tubes lol! ).
And soon (hopefully!), part of the quartet at least will be 2x EL_*39s*_, with which I'm really looking forward to seeing whether the old French connoisseurs were right in rating them (quite highly) above the 38 . And speaking of which, the second one arrived today, whereupon I was in a state of shock thinking I'd been sent a new ticker in one of those organ transplant boxes...as can be seen thus :


 

Has anyone ever had a single tube sent in such a package?..._incredible!!_ A touch OTT I thought, but nice to see such love and care heaped upon one of our 'treasures'!! ...(perhaps it is a magical tube after all lol!)...


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## connieflyer (May 21, 2019)

Much better like this then just sticking in a padded envelope and praying! How about posting some pictures of the e l 39 s to whet our appetite! As for the El 38 quad, I put another couple of hours in on these today oh, and I do not find them overwhelming in my system at all. Quite the contrary they are very open and Powerful. I put a CD player into the system taking it direct to the gungnir sac out to the headphone app, the clarity and fullness is quite amazing.. I have to stop buying the equipment because I have no more inputs into the Gungnir DAC! I never thought I would need more than four separate inputs. I may have misjudged! Oh well at least this way, I have to take a piece of equipment out before I can put anything back in. Cheaper that way oh, well not actually!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Much better like this then just sticking in a padded envelope and praying! How about posting some pictures of the e l 39 s to whet our appetite! As for the El 38 quad, I put another couple of hours in on these today oh, and I do not find them overwhelming in my system at all. Quite the contrary they are very open and Powerful. I put a CD player into the system taking it direct to the gungnir sac out to the headphone app, the clarity and fullness is quite amazing.. I have to stop buying the equipment because I have no more inputs into the Gungnir DAC! I never thought I would need more than four separate inputs. I may have misjudged! Oh well at least this way, I have to take a piece of equipment out before I can put anything back in. Cheaper that way oh, well not actually!



Much better indeed, cf!! 

And re. the EL39s...Roger Wilco (tomorrow) and Out...(actually, they look identical to the silver-banded, black glass Philips/Dario 38...but with slightly different pinout).

So g'night all...

ps. Will be interesting to hear how your quad 38s now sound, compared to with the EL11s as drivers...but it'll probably take quite a while for the more subtle differences to show themselves lol!


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## connieflyer

Nice looking tube.  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el39.html  hopefully the pin out won't cause you too much delay.


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## DecentLevi

@hypnos1 I'm looking forward to your impressions of the EL39 and if it can match your top flight black glass Dario / Phillips EL38's and if so this would be a steal deal. I do suppose you're building your own adapter as we speak.


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## connieflyer

If I get anymore equipment stacked up I won'd be able to see over it from the chair side!  Liked the Furman Elite so much I bought another one to use with my home theater, to replace an older power center.


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## hypnos1 (May 23, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Nice looking tube.  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el39.html  hopefully the pin out won't cause you too much delay.



Thanks for beating me to it cf...that second EL39 that came in the organ transplant box (well, _almost _one, that is!) needed a darned good clean, but it did prompt me to have a much closer look at their construction, along with the various similar (ie. silver-banded Philips/Dario) 38s I have. And an interesting exercise it was lol!

On the whole, they are all identical : top anode wire direct to the plate, rather than an extension as per the later clear glass Mullard; ceramic grid post/mica insulators; gold signal grid wires.
However, these 39s at least have *two* bottom getters (dish style), as opposed to the single in the 38s. But now comes the really interesting part...I discovered that a pair of 38s I haven't yet converted *also* have _dual _getters. And given they're sitting temporarily in just my testing adapter, and NOS with no burn-in, they already sound superb. So chances are they'll outshine even the (wonderful) single getter Darios by the time they've undergone surgery...(assuming I manage not to destroy them in the process   - one already making an ominous noise when gently shaken lol! ).



DecentLevi said:


> @hypnos1 I'm looking forward to your impressions of the EL39 and if it can match your top flight black glass Dario / Phillips EL38's and if so this would be a steal deal. I do suppose you're building your own adapter as we speak.



With any luck DL, the 39s may well pip the Dario 38s past the post, as just mentioned!  But as for 'steal deal', I'm afraid if you _can_ indeed find any, the prices are usually very high...(but not as crazy as the recent early large bottle 'balloon' EL38 (Mullard/Philips) went for!! ... and which I reckon may well be surpassed by the *dual-getter* RT (Philips [France] made) 38 and the 39s lol ).

So, guys, a pic of what I've been eulogising about :



RT brand early Philips EL38 (dual getter) to the left...2x early Philips (1x Dario) EL39 to the right (also dual getters). The 39s - these examples at least - also have deeper bases than the 38s...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If I get anymore equipment stacked up I won'd be able to see over it from the chair side!  Liked the Furman Elite so much I bought another one to use with my home theater, to replace an older power center.



Hi cf. Could this be a case of 'Reach for the Skies' lol?!! Looks very impressive, though .

And you obviously find the Furman Elite delivers the goods..._nice_...(looks good too!). So, mon ami, what's the next piece to grace the stack and totally block your view?...that McIntosh, complete with blue meters to match the Furman?! Better go bury your credit card methinks!!


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## connieflyer

CJ, yes I am very convinced on the furman The most noticeable effect for myself was the presentation of the files coming straight off the Nas. It cleaned these files up tremendously. I had use it mainly for backup before but now it's a pleasure to use it with play fi coming directly to the anthem receiver.  Now be home theater will have its own firman , right now it's using an older monster power 3500 power center, so this too should be an input that will improve things. I noticed when I 1st bought the monster power years ago yet improved the picture on the flat panel TV, and now with this Panasonic plasma I'm hoping that it will improve that to some degree as well. But in the main I'm looking for the protection that this device will provide. Plus should I go away for the weekend, or on a bake cation disconnecting power instead of on plugging everything from the wall outlets I can flip one switch on the power centers and all the equipment will be out of the loop. As far as another piece of equipment to stack up, that's not going to happen! At least not with the beautiful blue meters. As much as I liked the looks of that amplifier, if I'm going to spend that much on another headphone amplifier it's going to be the HE1. Now that looks like it would be fun to play with! Of course I would have to start a different stack would not look too good on top of this one nor would I want anything on top of it. Those tubes really look good, hopefully after your conversion they sound as good as they look. And hopefully, with all the work that you will have to put into them that they sound better than the Dario's.


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## hypnos1

Now then guys. As if we didn't already know, that wonderful old Yorkshire saying "Nowt so queer as folk" needs changing to "Nowt so queer as _tubes_" lol!!

The tubes in question (this time!) are the dual getter *RT* - Philips (France) - EL38s I mentioned last time. Even after just 15 hrs or so burn-in, a single new and unused tube, partnering a single getter Philips 38 is already proving to be a much better match for the Empyreans than the stellar Mullard large 'balloon' bottle version. And which is all the more 'strange' as I myself have found that all my other EL38s have needed many more hours on them to really shine . Plus, this is before I do away with an adapter socket and join my new UP-OCC silver and copper wires direct to the tube's wiring inside the old pins!...Crazy!!

Bass doesn't go down _quite_ so low as the old Mullard, but has more definition and is better controlled. This also probably contributes to a clearer overall presentation, along with a crisper attack and more precise timing. Delicate treble notes especially also have a slightly wider tonal range and even more delicious decay. Soundstage is a bit wider, with more 'layers' to the presentation.

Now, this is something I noticed when first testing different 38s, but I must take my hat off to the guys at Radiotechnique (probably either the Chartres or Dreux factory) back in the 50s for being able to come up with something that beats even the famous Mullard name! And they have certainly excelled themselves with this dual getter version. (Mind you, Visseaux can also be a world beater, of course!).

And so in conclusion - at the moment, at least! - although bass light systems (especially headphones) may well benefit from the extra bass of the 'balloon' Mullard/Philips EL38, for anyone else the silver banded Philips (France) 38s would definitely be the better bet IMHO. And if lucky enough to find the _dual_ bottom getter RT (probably with _black _coating), so much the better!

Unfortunately, prices of said rare Mullard have gone crazy recently, and given they also seem more 'delicate' than other versions, I personally would advise keeping your eyes out for the silver banded ones, which are also becoming rarer by the day but sometimes pop up on ebay...as old tubes can do now and again .

As of yet, I don't know if the identical-looking dual getter EL39 even performs as well as the RT 38 - _in our amps!_...hopefully its operating parameters will be exactly the same, but that can't be taken for granted alas! Hopefully I can get at least one converted in the next week, and will keep you informed...should be interesting...for _me_, at least! ...CHEERS!...CJ...And a happy weekend to all!


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## Johnnysound (May 25, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, d Tung Sol round plate were some of the best I have ever heard for the six sn7 family. But to me, with my equipment, they did not equal the quad El 38 mallards. Yesterday I changed back to the ER 11 and notice that they were a little bit smoother so today I'm going to switch back to the quad 38 and see if I am missing that smoothness or if I prefer this quad more. Take several hours of listening to notice and confirm your first impressions. But good luck for yourself with the quad dl38 see what you think of them with the new headphones I'm sure they're going to sound different then when you were using the buyer T1. Good luck either way my friend



Hi CF, my experience is being very similar to yours, of course starting with my own pre/power config (4 x EL 38s on each).   Inspired  by your findings and those of @DecentLevi I  tried some of my nicest vintage 6SN7s (TS long black plates, Hytrons, Sylvania “chrome tops” and others)  driving the EL 38s and wow ! you are right....the sinergy was absolutely great.  In fact, they sounded waaay better with the 38s than  with the “standard” Euforia 6AS7Gs.  This was kind of a surprise, I have almost “discarded” the SN7s in favor of the “EL” family as drivers, and this only confirms that the 38s are _very_ different tubes in terms of sinergy.  But the pair of 7N7s (on the pic above) sounded just magnificent:  big, clear, smooth, above the best SN7s, and (for me, in my system) even better than the great TFK EL 11s in terms of openness, absolute definition and a less “reserved” personality more in tune with the powers.  So far, the closest contenders against the full EL 38 quartet.

These Sylvania “US Navy” CHS 7N7s are true military issue from the forties and the _strongest_ built tubes I have ever seen, with _really_ thick glass, metal bases (true grounded) and the sturdy  “direct pins” designed to avoid contact problems due to vibrations.  The internals ( reinforced black “T” plates) are also top notch, so the build quality is far above any “commercial” 6SN7s of the time (as they should be)...and they sound splendid.  I can only imagine them in the radar, radio rooms, gun controls or the like on board some big battleship !!

I always have been a bit exceptical  about the advantages of “military” vs “standard” tubes of similar type in terms of sound quality...but this 7N7 is so obviously superior to  6SN7 “T plates” of the same era (at least, paired with the EL 38s) that I have to admit that the higher construction standard, and specially the solid, anti vibration design on these military tubes must be the key factor for SQ...the good news is that you can get 7N7s for pennies, and for about 30 bucks, quite a while ago, I bought a lot of maybe 20 tubes of different brands...almost all military surplus ( only one “Navy”, but with patience  I soon found the matching pair) come on, tube rolling is even more fun when great tubes are so cheap !

A whole new road for experimentation,  and waiting in line I have a bunch of “holy grail” small driver tubes worth trying....we’ll see what happens


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## DecentLevi (May 25, 2019)

Hey @Johnnysound congrats on the recent 'off the cuff' pairing discovery with the EL38's. I just may get some 7N7's too.

Also a quick tip RE small driver tubes; aka 9-pin octals. For some reason I have consistently found these to pair best with closed-back headphones. Every favorite tube combination for my closed-back headphones I have a record of involves miniature tubes in the drivers seat, no matter what powers are used or which closed-back headphones are used as well; such as my current RCA 6FQ7 drivers (uses 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapters which also work for ECC88 and E88CC tubes) with a unique power tube combination I can reveal if anyone is curious enough. Actually the mini-tubes often underwhelm as drivers to the likes of larger EL class when it comes to open-back headphones, but then put these mini's as drivers to a closed-back such as Sennheiser HD-380 Pro and a whole new life is breathed in through these mini tubes; giving them the upper hand over all larger tubes.

Do note however this generally pertains to electronic music as I've discovered over the years acoustic music is best reproduced with open-back headphones. My explanation goes something like this: the confined chamber of closed-backs are more conducive to getting that robust / pounding non-bleeding and controlled bass and treble and vibrant mids without going overboard on soundstage for electronic music which is less the focus.  Put in a good mini tube like  the above or Tesla ECC88 or a genuine 6N23p and you get that basic snappy dynamics / controlled bass and treble, etc. that gives a mesmerizing performance for the likes of techno, drum & bass and house music; depending on synergy with powers chosen.


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## OctavianH (May 25, 2019)

I told you a few weeks ago that my fight will USB will start and I will not stop until the final victory. Well, now my armies are resting because the gremlins are finally defeated. And the answer was JCAT Femto. This PCI express USB card is a very underrated product. After only 2 days of usage, even if the manufacturer claims it needs at least 1 week to shine, I decided to sell all my other USB filters and also to stop searching for other solutions. But let me present it a little bit, because it is quite unknown here on these forums.

The JCAT is a product sold by JPLAY (https://jcat.eu/) and dispatched from Poland. It has shipping included and mine arrived with UPS (tracking included). The support is good and it is done on their own forums where it seems they have quite a big fan base.
The card worked out of the box, excepting a Firmware upgrade I had to make manually (very simple steps). And now some pictures:

The packaging is simple:






And inside you have 2 flyers and again a kind of dyi packaging:






And inside, what is the most important:






And of course, you have to power it via an LPS if you want maximum sound quality, so in my case I used an Sbooster MK2 5-6V + the Sbooster Ultra additional filter:






So, a simple USB cable to the DAC and that's it. The card is inside the PC and the Sbooster sits on its back. All devices (PC, DAC, Furman, Elise) are plugged in the same power strip and the sound quality is incredible. Conclusion is: if you use a PC or a device with a free PCI express slot you definitely need to try this card if you want USB playback.
If not, stick to optical or streamers or whatever other solutions you are using. For me this by far the best and most comfortable solution since on the table I have less cables and devices and still I can enjoy my 8TB storage space for FLACs and DSDs and whatever other formats I will choose.

They sell also a player/streamer software called JPLAY which I tried to demo using the trial version but I had some compatibility issues with Win 10 or my DAC. I am still working with them to fix it and let's hope I will be able to try it asap because it seems an interesting product.
I have no idea if I'll buy it but for sure I want to try it.

*Why I say this is a big change?* Well, the sound is more relaxed and efortless and I think it has that PRaT many claim to be their desire in sound quality. I never understood clearly what is that, but it seems to match what I hear now better pace rhythm and timing). It has a better timing and provides a kind of "uniformity" in music which other filters were not able to provide. iFi filters were airier but less detailed than ISO Regen. ISO Regen was darker somehow and more detailed than the iFi ones, but sounded somehow "condensed". And in the end, JCAT suprasses all by dynamics, detail and that feeling of coherence.

As a summary of the past battles:

JCAT + Sbooster >> ISO Regen + Sbooster > ISO Regen + stock PS > iFi nano iUSB3.0 + iFi nano iGalvanic3.0 >> direct USB connection from PC => DAC.

Legend:
>> = big change
> = better

PS. This will be my last off topic post, but I wanted to close the discussion I opened a while ago regarding sources, power conditioning and filtering. Now this topic is closed for me and I hope the information is useful for someone. I could not find a JCAT thread here so it might be useful.


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## connieflyer

Johnnysound said:


> Hi CF, my experience is being very similar to yours, of course starting with my own pre/power config (4 x EL 38s on each).   Inspired  by your findings and those of @DecentLevi I  tried some of my nicest vintage 6SN7s (TS long black plates, Hytrons, Sylvania “chrome tops” and others)  driving the EL 38s and wow ! you are right....the sinergy was absolutely great.  In fact, they sounded waaay better with the 38s than  with the “standard” Euforia 6AS7Gs.  This was kind of a surprise, I have almost “discarded” the SN7s in favor of the “EL” family as drivers, and this only confirms that the 38s are _very_ different tubes in terms of sinergy.  But the pair of 7N7s (on the pic above) sounded just magnificent:  big, clear, smooth, above the best SN7s, and (for me, in my system) even better than the great TFK EL 11s in terms of openness, absolute definition and a less “reserved” personality more in tune with the powers.  So far, the closest contenders against the full EL 38 quartet.
> 
> These Sylvania “US Navy” CHS 7N7s are true military issue from the forties (a pair of beauties, I must say)  and the _strongest_ built tubes I have ever seen, with _really_ thick glass, metal bases (true grounded) and the sturdy  “direct pins” designed to avoid contact problems due to vibrations.  The internals ( reinforced black “T” plates) are also top notch, so the build quality is far above any “commercial” 6SN7s of the time (as they should be)...and they sound splendid.  I can only imagine them in the radar, radio rooms, gun controls or the like on board some big battleship !!
> 
> ...


 
Congrats on trying and finding another great combo with the Euforia,  it just keeps getting better.  I have not tried the 7n7 type tubes.  I had seen the reviews on them and meant to try them and got side tracked.  I have a pair of Joybringers, the Visseaux 6N7G and a pair of Rca 6N7 GT and they make a good showing as well.  I have had several different tube types from Visseaux and always had good showing with them.  The versatility of our amp is excellent.  I gave up being surprised by the new sounds that the different combos bring to the Euforia.  Looking forward to the new Anniversary amp. If the difference in what I can sell my current amp for and the price to upgrade is not to far apart I will be ordering one. Keep up the good work Johnnysound. Enjoy hearing your findings. All the best.


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## connieflyer

Just a quick update on the furman power conditioner that I added to the home theater. Connecting it directly to the cable coming from the outside and also having the plasma most power plugged into the furman, the picture is even better than before period I watched the movie last night the new Apollo 11 on Blu-Ray it has a lot of footage that was not shown in the past, a fantastic documentary and presented in Blu-Ray with HD master audio files it was an amazing video to watch. Highly recommended


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## Johnnysound (May 26, 2019)

RCA 6CG7s black plates with shield ( I prefer this “tri plate” variety over the “clear tops”) that -as the 7N7s-  are excellent drivers for the EL38s...with their own virtues like a  tight & precise bass, that very effectively  “control” the powerful  bass output of the 38s.  The combo is very musical, smooth, relaxed, and a joy to listen to (for hours)  both as preamp or with HPs...

This is an “iron fist” driver that mates perfectly with the EL38s, smoothing out their wild nature, with transparency, air and definition. Being RCAs, I expected the warm “house sound” (not good paired with  the warm 38s)  but that was not the case.  On the contrary, their neutrality only highlighted the transparency of the EL38s.

The 6CG7s are supossed to be an “evolution” of the 6SN7s in a more compact, noval format, and sonically, they certainly are a step ahead, at least comparing my old RCA SN7s to these particular 6CG7s...

Anyway, all this experiences are possible only because of the versatility of the Euforia, and (as discussed before) one began to see the amp more like a test instrument, (which in a way it is) rather than concentrate on the music.  The EL38s installed in the Euforia as powers (for example) are _extremely_ revealing tubes, not only of the music itself, but of the very sonic _character_ of the drivers before them, doing justice to many tubes that now sound at its very best.  On the other hand, the shortcomings of others are plainly revealed...


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## DecentLevi (May 27, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> RCA 6CG7s black plates with shield ( I prefer this “tri plate” variety over the “clear tops”) that -as the 7N7s-  are excellent drivers for the EL38s...with their own virtues like a  tight & precise bass, that very effectively  “control” the powerful  bass output of the 38s.  The combo is very musical, smooth, relaxed, and a joy to listen to (for hours)  both as preamp or with HPs...
> 
> This is an “iron fist” driver that mates perfectly with the EL38s, smoothing out their wild nature, with transparency, air and definition. Being RCAs, I expected the warm “house sound” (not good paired with  the warm 38s)  but that was not the case.  On the contrary, their neutrality only highlighted the transparency of the EL38s.
> 
> ...






Out of the blue we both happen to enjoy the RCA 6CG7's as dsrivers with an EL tube at about the same time. Mine is the RCA 6FQ7 and I believe these are very similar if different at all. These have uncanny control of the bass giving a sound that is coherent, tight, sweet, liquid and with superb  texture / definition and of bass and treble. Legendary for electronic music with closed-back headphones... you should try it - boundless performance and all the PRaT one could basically ever want! But for open cans with this power combo I prefer the EL32 or EL12 Spez as drivers. The Amparex 6FQ7 are equally great performers but with a slight edge to sub-bass in place of some 'slam'.

Above is a throwback to one of last year's top discoveries that is still doing absolutely incredible things with any recording I throw at it. 4x 6BL7 with 2x EL32 (curved), and 2x RCA 6FQ7 as drivers.
This is one of over 100 fantastic pairings I've found ever since I've gotten the externally powered 6x 6BL7 adapter made by XuLing, sent via another forum user. This one is however among the top pairings for closed-backs, and there are many for open 'cans, generally involving various permutations of 6BL7, 6SN7, EL32, 6AS7G, etc. I'm still in a gradual process of trying all possible combinations with EL38 which are at least half burned in, in both power and driver slots, however I have found for some very unusual reason That the EL38 do not play well as multiples or with 6BL7 or with any other EL tubes such as EL11 / 12 / 32 on the externally heated board; I have also tried 6x EL38's as powers and as was the former menioned this was too bright. Though they do sound exquisite with 2x 6BL7 and 2x GEC 6AS7G as powers, with 2x more EL38 as drivers; an early discovery in this process. Of course I did in fact re-start this recently rekindled journey with one-tube-per-socket and I had some definite jawdropping moments, but what can I say, once you taste 8 tubes with a properly externally-heated setup, there's just no going back, because my 'good Euforia' becomes a jawdropping experience that's also mouth-watering and the soundstage is generally as wide as a football stadium; a slipstream into a whole new level of sonic reality. To me, 6 powers with good synergy can outclass even the best, most sought after single-tube setup and the difference is uncomparable.

Disclaimer:
A successful and safe operation of any externally heated setup on the Euforia requires close attention to tube compatibility, remaining within the aH limits of the external transformer accordingly, and ensuring no overheating occurs on the tubes and external transfo. even though the Euforia itself largely becomes exempt from it. (This is my first-hand experience from many months of extensive use). Of course YMMV, so one may be able to attain equal or possibly even superior results with single-tube setups depending on the rest of your chain. For me however, the introduction of the 6x externally heated board has been by no small margin the greatest sonic leap I have experienced in the hobby and am almost _afraid _to hear how it can sound even better if I upgrade other parts of the chain.


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## freesole

Although I had been looking for a Euforia, I ended up picking up an Elise on these forums just the other day. Will be pairing it with my Mytek Brooklyn +. Will be interesting to see how this amp compares to the one in the Mytek!


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## Scutey

freesole said:


> Although I had been looking for a Euforia, I ended up picking up an Elise on these forums just the other day. Will be pairing it with my Mytek Brooklyn +. Will be interesting to see how this amp compares to the one in the Mytek!


Congrats @freesole , the Elise is a great amp, it should provide you with many hours of enjoyment .


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## Johnnysound (Jun 1, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Out of the blue we both happen to enjoy the RCA 6CG7's as dsrivers with an EL tube at about the same time. Mine is the RCA 6FQ7 and I believe these are very similar if different at all. *These have uncanny control of the bass giving a sound that is coherent, tight, sweet, liquid and with superb  texture / definition and of bass and treble.* Legendary for electronic music with closed-back headphones... you should try it - boundless performance and all the PRaT one could basically ever want! But for open cans with this power combo I prefer the EL32 or EL12 Spez as drivers. The Amparex 6FQ7 are equally great performers but with a slight edge to sub-bass in place of some ’slam’.



Absolutely, we both share  the very same impressions about the 6CG7s/6FQ7s driving the EL38s !!  There are small  differences between types, I tried the standard grey plates (no shield), the famous  RCA “clear tops” (that you use) and ended preferring the RCA black  “tri plates” because I feel they have tighter bass and slightly better overall “coherency” to their sound.  You should try them...and I suggest checking “MDB Ventures” website: they allways have a big stock of U.S. tubes (new and used) at very fair prices...

BTW, my AT cans are closed-back, same as my speakers ! (LOL) and yes again, both the EL32 and the EL12 Spez (I have a pair of _gorgeous_ Teslas) are superb paired with the EL38s, albeit with a _slightly_ laid back, yet transparent sound.  In preamp duties I tend to prefer the “slam” of the 6CG7s, and their control of the EL38s ”exuberant”  bass  (that can be  a bit OTT at times)  considering that my power amp also uses EL38s, so the drivers in my Euforia have to deal with no less than _six_ EL38s !!

You need a firm hand with all that horses, and the 6CG7s are particularly suited for the job, I mean the combo sounds just beautiful & sweet overall with all kinds of music, and yes once more, electronic music sounds spectacular !    Extended  listening not only confirmed all this, but I ended liking  the drivers even more, discovering amazing “textures” to the music and not just bass qualities,  but excellent highs as well...

However,  I must confess that I am hooked, caught by the spell of the full EL38 quartet, for the _opposite_ reasons: their deliciously _uncontrolled, _unrestricted_, _ wildly open, pure triode sound.  In my setup, the synergy of the quartet with the power amp is exemplary (as expected) but with cans it is the same.  Not  for _all_ kinds of music, perhaps, but  listen to a female singer, a jazz or baroque ensemble, folk music, or (my god) to an acoustic guitar solo...just been stunned, flattened by “Guajiras de Lucía” (remastered version on Tidal/Audirvana)  as if the great master played live just for me...and while listening to that beautiful piece with such a magnificent, unsurpassed fidelity I tought that this was it,  the real thing, and the reason why this tube hobby is really worth the effort  !!

And wow DL, you have an impressive “multi tube” setup that would take Euforia to another level...I currently do not want to mess with an external P.S, but my previous experiences (with another OTL amp) were _extremely_ rewarding...


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## WithGumption

Over the past week—I’ve read about 150 pages in this thread! Excuse my ignorance, but I have a heater current draw question. How is it calculated?

I’ve owned an Elise since February and had just purchased some Bendix 6080WB slotted plates to use as power tubes and some Ken-Rad 6Sn7GT black glass to run as drivers, when my headphone jack detached and had fallen into the chassis. I sent back the Elise to Upscale Audio to have it repaired under warranty and lo and behold decided to upgrade to the Euforia instead...and it will be here on a Wednesday.

I read a ton on EL38’s and EL11’s in this thread, but kind of wanted to try the stock tubes and the Bendix/Ken-Rads first. Am I at any risk with that combo? 6080’s seem to run hot from what I can gather. Which one of those tubes are not recommended with the EL family? Again, excuse my ignorance—it’s just not clear to me.


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## DecentLevi (Jun 10, 2019)

Easy answer for this modest setup. Firstly your Bendix as powers with EL38 as powers should do quite well, as well as Bendix as powers with drivers such as 6SN7's such as Ken rads or EL11. EL12's pair well as drivers but slightly go over the recommended current draw.

Not recommended from the EL family is more of a personal preference, though I've currently steered away from the EL3N's as they've proven a bit too muddy / dark on every combo I've tried them with.

Safe combos:
POWERS:
[2x] 6AS7G / 6H13C (or) 6080 / CV2984 (or) 5998 (or) EL12 (or) EL38 (or) 4x 6BL7 (or) 2-6x EL32
 note: EL12 is more preferable as powers than EL11; all EL tubes require an adapter and more than 2x also require multi-adapters).
Careful with the current draw with drivers with 4x 6BL7 or with 4x EL38 as powers
DRIVERS:
[2x] 6SN7 / VT-231 / 6H8C (or) EL11 (or) EL3N (or) EL12 (or) EL32 (or) EL38 (or) 6N7 / VT-96 (or) 7N7 (or) ECC88 / E88CC / 6CG7 / 6FQ7 (or) 6N23P (or) 12AV7 / 12AU7 / 12AX7 (or) 4x 6J5
  note: all require adapters except 6SN7 / VT-231 / 6H8C and anything more than 2 requires multi-adapters such as with 6J5 which is needed to function.
Careful with the total current draw if using EL12's as drivers.

Safe to use as both drivers and powers: 4x EL32 (or) 4x EL38 (or) 4X EL12

Unsafe combos:
4x 6AS7G / 6H13C, 4x 6080 / CV2984, any usage of 6336 or other larger tubes such as 300B

As you can see, this is a super customize-able amp, allowing even the most demanding of listeners to find their sonic perfection


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## mordy (Jun 3, 2019)

Hi WG,
The heater current is the current draw of each individual tube. Examples are the 6080 tubes which draw 2.5A, and the 6SN7 that draw 0.6A. The EL38 uses 1.4A.
All tube spec sheets show this value for the tube in question.
The Euforia is rated for a maximum current draw of 7A. You just add up the current draw of each tube - the total should not exceed 7A.  A quad of EL38 uses 4x1.4A = 5.6A which is below the 7A maximum and thus will not present any problems.
Using tubes that draw more than maximum rated current can overheat the amp and destroy it.
The 6336 tube draws 5A each and thus cannot be used in this amp since you need a pair.
PS: Using a pair of Bendix tubes (2x2.5A) and a pair of EL12 (2x1.2A) for a total of 7.4A exceeds the current rating of the Euforia and is thus not recommended.


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## DecentLevi

Amazingly looks like Feliks Audio will be there at SoCal (L.A. area) Can Jam in a few weeks. If I go I'll ask them what the deal is about the Euforia anniversary edition; I presume their new flagship won't be ready yet though I'm not really after that one. I'll be astonished if they don't know me by name though Haha


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## connieflyer

A little more info on Anniversary model,  just got email back from Lukasz and he okayed me releasing the information. 

" Indeed we are excited to launch the special edition Euforia very soon, expected in late summer time. 

Pictures yet to come, but i can tell you it will have a very special finish, sort of space grey paint used in automobile industry, very classy and durable. 

The most important is of course what lies beneth - full details soon, but the main changes relate to new internal wiring (replacing pure silver with single crystal copper, to gain some musicality and warmth), new upgraded capacitors, new trafo with more power reserves and better shielding against external interference and some other tweaks. All in all it sound fabulous, i was personally surprised how different it sounds to regular Euforia. Especially with more "dry" headphones like T1 just brings whole new life into them. 

Price expect to be around 30% up on the regular model. More info to come! Please feel free to share with the community. "

 So now am looking forward even more to the arrival.


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## hypnos1

WithGumption said:


> Over the past week—I’ve read about 150 pages in this thread! Excuse my ignorance, but I have a heater current draw question. How is it calculated?
> 
> I’ve owned an Elise since February and had just purchased some Bendix 6080WB slotted plates to use as power tubes and some Ken-Rad 6Sn7GT black glass to run as drivers, when my headphone jack detached and had fallen into the chassis. I sent back the Elise to Upscale Audio to have it repaired under warranty and lo and behold decided to upgrade to the Euforia instead...and it will be here on a Wednesday.
> 
> I read a ton on EL38’s and EL11’s in this thread, but kind of wanted to try the stock tubes and the Bendix/Ken-Rads first. Am I at any risk with that combo? 6080’s seem to run hot from what I can gather. Which one of those tubes are not recommended with the EL family? Again, excuse my ignorance—it’s just not clear to me.



Welcome to the Euforia community WG...you've made a good choice lol! 

DL has made a fairly comprehensive list of tubes that can be/have been used (watching carefully the total heater current requirement, of course)...there are almost _too_ many to choose from!!  So I suggest you do a bit more research on generally held views re. the 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080...there are also other head-fi threads specifically for these tubes. But be prepared for the long haul...there aren't really any shortcuts to gaining a fuller view on this subject, I'm afraid. Especially when personal preference also plays a large part in the choice factor, of course.

As regards power tubes, I would hold on a little longer before getting too many/spending too much money...I will soon be giving the results of my latest trials with the EL3*9*, which I'm still coming to terms with, and confirming my initial findings. And although usually commanding very high prices (when can be found!), I have a source that has some at an extremely good price (but have yet to confirm their quality before recommending). And with a simple mod that folks can do themselves, the adapter used for the EL38 can _also_ be used for the EL39...watch this space......CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Jun 4, 2019)

Great information CJ. The EL39 sound like it may be a bit better than the EL38 from what I am reading. I prefer the El38 to  The El32  Hands down. For drivers, the last week or so, I have been using the Visseaux 6n7g, and am having good luck with those.  The EL11 also make excellent drivers. I have tried many 6SN7 tubes and while I do find them quite nice I don't find them as attractive as the other options


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Welcome to the Euforia community WG...you've made a good choice lol!
> 
> DL has made a fairly comprehensive list of tubes that can be/have been used (watching carefully the total heater current requirement, of course)...there are almost _too_ many to choose from!!  So I suggest you do a bit more research on generally held views re. the 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080...there are also other head-fi threads specifically for these tubes. But be prepared for the long haul...there aren't really any shortcuts to gaining a fuller view on this subject, I'm afraid. Especially when personal preference also plays a large part in the choice factor, of course.
> 
> As regards power tubes, I would hold on a little longer before getting too many/spending too much money...I will soon be giving the results of my latest trials with the EL3*9*, which I'm still coming to terms with, and confirming my initial findings. And although usually commanding very high prices (when can be found!), I have a source that has some at an extremely good price (but have yet to confirm their quality before recommending). And with a simple mod that folks can do themselves, the adapter used for the EL38 can _also_ be used for the EL39...watch this space......CHEERS!...CJ



cant seem to find a drooling EL39 emoji


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## Scutey (Jun 4, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Welcome to the Euforia community WG...you've made a good choice lol!
> 
> DL has made a fairly comprehensive list of tubes that can be/have been used (watching carefully the total heater current requirement, of course)...there are almost _too_ many to choose from!!  So I suggest you do a bit more research on generally held views re. the 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080...there are also other head-fi threads specifically for these tubes. But be prepared for the long haul...there aren't really any shortcuts to gaining a fuller view on this subject, I'm afraid. Especially when personal preference also plays a large part in the choice factor, of course.
> 
> As regards power tubes, I would hold on a little longer before getting too many/spending too much money...I will soon be giving the results of my latest trials with the EL3*9*, which I'm still coming to terms with, and confirming my initial findings. And although usually commanding very high prices (when can be found!), I have a source that has some at an extremely good price (but have yet to confirm their quality before recommending). And with a simple mod that folks can do themselves, the adapter used for the EL38 can _also_ be used for the EL39...watch this space......CHEERS!...CJ


You're teasing us again h1! , does this mean a scramble for a new tube? , and just as I have secured a pair of early coated "balloon" Mullards!, oh will this search for audio nirvana never end! lol .


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## OctavianH

I guess I'll put myself in a refrigerator and come back here in 100 years to see the "final combo" because I have not started yet to try EL38 and you already jump to EL39. And after those, the Anniversary Edition will come and all tests will need to be performed again


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## freesole

Scutey said:


> Congrats @freesole , the Elise is a great amp, it should provide you with many hours of enjoyment .



Trying it out now but struggling with the sound a bit. I need to do some tube rolling a bit and see if I can get the right match. Currently have the Haltron labeled EL38's being driven by Sylvania 6SN7GT's. One would think that is a good combo but I'm getting a bit of distortion and the sound is not nearly as clean as say, my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (makes some sense given SS vs tubes but it's not the good kind of distortion). 

Listening through my Empyrean's but will try my Clear's tonight as well.


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## hypnos1 (Jun 5, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Great information CJ. The EL39 sound like it may be a bit better than the EL38 from what I am reading. I prefer the El38 to  The El32  Hands down. For drivers, the last week or so, I have been using the Visseaux 6n7g, and am having good luck with those.  The EL11 also make excellent drivers. I have tried many 6SN7 tubes and while I do find them quite nice I don't find them as attractive as the other options



A _bit_ better, cf?...a bit more than a bit, I'd say lol!  And ditto re. the 6SN7s as drivers...more info below...




teknorob23 said:


> cant seem to find a drooling EL39 emoji



That's a real shame, tr...perhaps these will do? : ...



Scutey said:


> You're teasing us again h1! , does this mean a scramble for a new tube? , and just as I have secured a pair of early coated "balloon" Mullards!, oh will this search for audio nirvana never end! lol .



The 'Never ending story' indeed, S...and once word gets out into the ether - or should that be '_watching eyes'_, given what usually seems to happen lol! - then _stampede_ might well be the appropriate word!! .
ps  Are you committed to those 'balloons'?...oh dear......sorry!



OctavianH said:


> I guess I'll put myself in a refrigerator and come back here in 100 years to see the "final combo" because I have not started yet to try EL38 and you already jump to EL39. And after those, the Anniversary Edition will come and all tests will need to be performed again



'Fridge, OH?...better make that a _cryo_ tank, mon ami!!...am on a real roll here lol! (But perhaps 100+ years is pushing it just a little!...).

Anyway folks, time to let the cat out of the bag..._*The EL39 surpasses all before it!*_

I never dreamt anything could outperform the early large bottle 'balloon' Mullard EL38, or silver-banded Philips (France) 38s. But after repeated trials of 4x EL39 tubes as powers (plus 2x *RT* branded EL38s - and only this brand, it would appear - that obviously came off the same production line!), I can confirm that what has been stated in the past by enthusiasts on French forums is absolutely true...ie. that the later _silver-_banded, gold signal grid wired Philips incarnation of the older _red_-banded (much inferior 4654) is a superlative tube, and rated well above the EL38 (the even later clear glass Mullard at least). 

So just what can it do?... Well, _in my system_, think of it as combining the qualities of the said 'balloon' 38 with those of the silver-banded Philips version...*then add some* :

Bass is simply stunning...the depth of the 'balloon' Mullard, but much more solid, tight and controlled. I have never experienced such bass from any tube before...bar none.

Mid-bass is more apparent...along with clearer mids throughout - the former especially helpful for my Empyrean headphones.

Treble is that much sweeter, and better able to temper pieces that are bordering on sibilance, but with no loss whatsoever of 'sparkle'.
 'Splash' _decay_ is even more sustained, a quality also more evident in the lower frequencies, especially bass.

The whole presentation has even more clarity than before, with more precise separation and placement...enhancing the already wonderful holographic stage of the 38. Width is still very impressive, but as can happen only too easily when this is _over_-done, there's no loss of imaging and focus. Notes unheard before - or those that suddenly appear 'off stage', and that at first can _seem_ impressive in other tubes - now have less of this false 'wow' factor, but are much more accurate and ultimately more pleasing. This was highlighted to me especially in Sade's track "Soldier of Love", from the album of the same name.

The overall impression is also one of greater dynamics handling, with uncanny precision and balance throughout the frequency range.

So all in all, this EL39 - *as power tube* - leaves all others in its wake..._in my opinion_. And as far as I myself am concerned, negates any need whatsoever to enter the warranty-breaking world of multi-tube adapters, and which I personally do not recommend for the same reason as F-A : such setups using third party adapters have not been proven by enough users to be perfectly reliable and safe, unless the amp itself is specifically designed for multiple tubes, as in such amps custom made by Glenn amps for example.

Finally (phew!)...a couple of photos concerning this amazing tube :


 
These are examples of the tubes from the source I mentioned before...my own (6), at least, are all of the 'RT' brand, which appear to be the most sought after, even though it seems most of the Philips (France) 38s and 39s - including 'Philips' and 'Dario' stamped tubes - did in fact come from RT factories. This supplier has 17 left in stock as of now, at 35 Euros (about $39, £31) each, and with reasonable shipping fees (certainly to UK!). If anyone is interested, please PM me for their details as I know only too well that if made public, I'm sure they'd go in a flash...especially as others obviously know of this tube's prowess, given *43* EL39 to EL34 adapters have already been sold by MrsX, which in itself speaks volumes lol! 

I will say right now that my mesh-plate Valvo EL11s at least sound superb when driving these tubes. To make sure 6SN7s (etc) are also compatible, I tested with 2 of some of the best out there :  a National Union, black glass 6SN7GT (Admiral brand), and a tall, heavily chromed Sylvania 7N7 (adapted) :

 

I must admit these drivers also sounded wonderful, partnering the 39s...but ultimately not as satisfying in my own system as the Valvo EL11s. The latters' bass was better all round, and their soundstage more impressively holographic, with more precise separation/placement/imaging and focus...a perfect recipe for the Empyreans.

As this post is way long enough already, and I must away to my bed, I shall post tomorrow the mod needed so that the EL38 adapters can also be used for the 39...so g'night all...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

freesole said:


> Trying it out now but struggling with the sound a bit. I need to do some tube rolling a bit and see if I can get the right match. Currently have the Haltron labeled EL38's being driven by Sylvania 6SN7GT's. One would think that is a good combo but I'm getting a bit of distortion and the sound is not nearly as clean as say, my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (makes some sense given SS vs tubes but it's not the good kind of distortion).
> 
> Listening through my Empyrean's but will try my Clear's tonight as well.


Tube amps can take a while to acclimatise to the "tube sound", if you're coming from a ss amp, also finding the right combo can also be very much trial and error, but that's part of the enjoyment of tubes!, also, although 6sn7 type do sound good with the EL38, however the best drivers for sound/synergie are the EL types, EL3N/11/12 etc, you really can't go wrong with them, good luck with your tube rolling journey!.


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## connieflyer

One other thing to keep in mind the EL38 needs enough time to be thoroughly burned in before it really gets its pace. That could be part of the problem. I have a pair of Sylvania 6sn7 Did I have used with the EL38 and they sound great. These Sylvania were from 1947 48 group and they were highly rated. So the EL will definitely make them shine providing of course you have proper burn in period just a thought gala best of luck


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## DecentLevi

I fully agree with you folks' findings on the Valvo EL11 tubes as drivers. Though I'm not sure if mine are the mesh plate kind, my all time top favorite combos involve the Valvo EL11 in the driver's 'seat'. The key is finding synergy among powers... they're very picky about which they pair with but once you find good synergy you're in for a ground-shaking ride of sonic bliss. One of mine however is partly on its' way out due to exhibiting an occasional modest hissing sound and partial depressurization but performs wonderfully when adjusted just right for the time being. Congrats on the EL39 discovery... for me this does however pose a question if any amount of tube upgrades could ever possibly match the prowess of that of an upgrade to a higher amp. I'm sure it depends on many factors but maybe never supposed to compete with the likes of a $20k system but I do suppose it does take the Euforia up a few notches higher than stock.


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## freesole

DecentLevi said:


> I fully agree with you folks' findings on the Valvo EL11 tubes as drivers. Though I'm not sure if mine are the mesh plate kind, my all time top favorite combos involve the Valvo EL11 in the driver's 'seat'. The key is finding synergy among powers... they're very picky about which they pair with but once you find good synergy you're in for a ground-shaking ride of sonic bliss. One of mine however is partly on its' way out due to exhibiting an occasional modest hissing sound and partial depressurization but performs wonderfully when adjusted just right for the time being. Congrats on the EL39 discovery... for me this does however pose a question if any amount of tube upgrades could ever possibly match the prowess of that of an upgrade to a higher amp. I'm sure it depends on many factors but maybe never supposed to compete with the likes of a $20k system but I do suppose it does take the Euforia up a few notches higher than stock.



Intrigued with the EL11's. Where does one find these for sale? 

I replaced the Sylvania 6SN7's with Tungsol 6SN7GTB's and I instantly enjoy the sound more. More coherent with increased clarity throughout the range without that obvious distortion that I heard with the Sylvania's.


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## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> 'Fridge, OH?...better make that a _cryo_ tank, mon ami!!...am on a real roll here lol! (But perhaps 100+ years is pushing it just a little!...).



After reading this article:
https://www.cntraveller.in/story/wo...sh-31-years-warns-latest-climate-change-study
 it seems my 100 years plan has two major problems:
1) I might not be in those 10% who will still enjoy the sun
2) availability of NOS tubes.

And a question, if someone knows, what are these VEL11 tubes?




The base seems compatible with EL11/EL12N adapters but on the top side we have that connector (anode maybe?).


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## hypnos1

freesole said:


> Intrigued with the EL11's. Where does one find these for sale?
> 
> I replaced the Sylvania 6SN7's with Tungsol 6SN7GTB's and I instantly enjoy the sound more. More coherent with increased clarity throughout the range without that obvious distortion that I heard with the Sylvania's.



Hi freesole. Glad you're now getting a better sound from your amp...and I'm sure things will get a whole lot better yet lol!  As others have said, some tubes take a fairly long while before performing at their best...but that distortion you mentioned seems strange...shouldn't really happen!! 

Re. the EL11s, I'll have a search...might well find a spare pair. Then the EL39s are the only power tubes you'll ever need!! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> After reading this article:
> https://www.cntraveller.in/story/wo...sh-31-years-warns-latest-climate-change-study
> it seems my 100 years plan has two major problems:
> 1) I might not be in those 10% who will still enjoy the sun
> ...



Yo, OH...forget the freezer. No way would I want to be around in 100+ years either lol! 

And that tube is a (double) beam power triode...needing *90 Volts* for the heater. So not really suitable methinks!!


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> I fully agree with you folks' findings on the Valvo EL11 tubes as drivers. Though I'm not sure if mine are the mesh plate kind, my all time top favorite combos involve the Valvo EL11 in the driver's 'seat'. The key is finding synergy among powers... they're very picky about which they pair with but once you find good synergy you're in for a ground-shaking ride of sonic bliss. One of mine however is partly on its' way out due to exhibiting an occasional modest hissing sound and partial depressurization but performs wonderfully when adjusted just right for the time being. Congrats on the EL39 discovery... for me this does however pose a question if any amount of tube upgrades could ever possibly match the prowess of that of an upgrade to a higher amp. I'm sure it depends on many factors but maybe never supposed to compete with the likes of a $20k system but I do suppose it does take the Euforia up a few notches higher than stock.



Sorry to hear of your impending EL11's demise...I doubt it's now performing anywhere near its best alas!  Hopefully you can find a replacement soon...although you do seem to have quite an arsenal of tubes at your disposal lol! 

And of course a _major_ leap in performance will only come from upgrading to a better amp...but it would indeed most probably have to be a very _expensive_ one at that! Probably the best (realistic) option for most folks is to look to source; DAC and headphones (and quality of cable wiring, as far as I'm concerned!), as these would have to be first class to match a much more expensive amp anyway! And in the scheme of things, the tubes that have been discovered so far certainly do take Euforia into otherwise much more expensive territory (the commercial sphere, at least)...especially the EL38s as power, and now the EL39, both of which can outclass tubes _much_ more expensive, and as far as I myself am concerned, give our amps a very satisfactory degree of 'prowess' lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## iamalex

It's just good to have folks like you that look to supply the people with top tubes for fair prices (_and top advices too, of course, for free!)_. As the EL38 has proven, not everyone has that kindness to serve fellow audio-enthusiasts, but make every cent they can out of it


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## hypnos1

iamalex said:


> It's just good to have folks like you that look to supply the people with top tubes for fair prices (_and top advices too, of course, for free!)_. As the EL38 has proven, not everyone has that kindness to serve fellow audio-enthusiasts, but make every cent they can out of it



Thanks iamalex...we do try to help folks as much as possible here in our threads. But there are indeed those out there who are only really interested in the $$$$$ alas.

And although my source's stock of EL39s is now down to just 9 tubes, I'm glad to say I was lucky enough to bag a few NOS silver-banded Philips EL38s at a reasonable price from a reasonable ebayer (France) for anyone who may be interested in the future. And they're not _too_ far off the 39 lol ...


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## hypnos1 (Mar 16, 2020)

This was meant to be my instruction on how to convert Mrsx's EL38 adapter so that it could be used for the EL39. However, it turns out that due to its different configuration to what I instructed, the mod doesn't work I'm afraid...unlike in my own adapter. So I myself shall be making them just for folks who followed my early suggestion to try them...

ps. Something I personally found...much to my surprise, using the 39s as _drivers_ to them as powers was no good at all...strange. In fact I advise _against_ it! (Whereas 4x EL38s can be quite good, depending on the rest of the system!!).


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## connieflyer

Ever wonder where the names of headphones stem from?  Empyrean In ancient cosmologies, the Empyrean Heaven, or simply the Empyrean, was the place in the highest heaven, which was supposed to be occupied by the element of fire (or aether in Aristotle's natural philosophy). The word derives from the Medieval Latin empyreus, an adaptation of the Ancient Greek empyrus (ἔμπυρος), meaning "in or on the fire (pyr)".

The Empyrean was thus used as a name for the firmament, and in Christian literature for the dwelling-place of God, the blessed, celestial beings so divine they are made of pure light, and the source of light and creation. Notably, at the very end of Dante's Paradiso, Dante visits God in the Empyrean. 
Now does that makes sense CJ?


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Ever wonder where the names of headphones stem from?  Empyrean In ancient cosmologies, the Empyrean Heaven, or simply the Empyrean, was the place in the highest heaven, which was supposed to be occupied by the element of fire (or aether in Aristotle's natural philosophy). The word derives from the Medieval Latin empyreus, an adaptation of the Ancient Greek empyrus (ἔμπυρος), meaning "in or on the fire (pyr)".
> 
> The Empyrean was thus used as a name for the firmament, and in Christian literature for the dwelling-place of God, the blessed, celestial beings so divine they are made of pure light, and the source of light and creation. Notably, at the very end of Dante's Paradiso, Dante visits God in the Empyrean.
> Now does that makes sense CJ?



Er..._no_, cf!! Except that I do indeed sometimes feel like I'm in Heaven when listening to my current system via the Meze Empyreans lol! 

It would be interesting to find out just why/how Meze chose the name, though......

ps. You're stopping me from my work, mon ami...doesn't take much at the moment lol (matters EL39 seem to be hot at the moment!!...7 left... )....BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry about that, I am gone!


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 12, 2019)

I trust H1 ears, lol, and lately he discovered some _tremendous_ power tubes.  I do not care about divided opinions about the EL38s...My power amp do not lie about  power tubes...and I have tried some of the best classics around. 

Mullards EL34s are a thing of beauty on the whole, (specially in the midrange), and their bass was deep but a bit loose. Siemens EL34s are another classic, more neutral than Mullards, and among current production, the Genalex Gold Lion KT77s were by far the best sounding...a breadth of fresh air compared to anything...before the EL38s. 

I  understand the delicacies of triode output to Cans, in which the 38s might be a little wild.  In my setup, 4xEL38s in Euforia as a preamp driving another four  in my power amp was simply   astounding: dynamics were so great as to push my speakers near their limits.   In my opinion the EL38s as power  output pentodes have no equal for the price: extension, power, dynamics, transparency, imaging, personality, deep musical expression in a big, classic way. 

By far the very best powers ever in my power amp.  And equally impressive as triodes in Euforia.  I feel I am just beginning to experience the possibilities of this setup.  The clear glass ones are, come on, top notch vintage  Mullard tubes at a reasonable price !


----------



## teknorob23

freesole said:


> Intrigued with the EL11's. Where does one find these for sale?
> 
> I replaced the Sylvania 6SN7's with Tungsol 6SN7GTB's and I instantly enjoy the sound more. More coherent with increased clarity throughout the range without that obvious distortion that I heard with the Sylvania's.



I picked up a pair for NOS EL11's last week from these guys in Germany. They didnt have them advertised but i asked and they had them and at 35 euros each which is fairly reasonable compared whats about on ebay at the moment. https://www.m-ware.de I'm fairly new to this amp too but these really do live up to the hype and are serious upgrade over stock tubes and anything else i've tried


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> I trust H1 ears, lol, and lately he discovered some _tremendous_ power tubes.  I do not care about divided opinions about the EL38s...I have a _great _power amp in the sense that it do not lie about  power tubes...and I have tried some of the best classics around.
> 
> Mullards EL34s are a thing of beauty on the whole, (specially in the midrange), and their bass was deep but a bit loose. Siemens EL34s are another classic, more neutral than Mullards, and among current production, the Genalex Gold Lion KT77s were by far the best sounding...a breadth of fresh air compared to anything...before the EL38s.
> 
> ...



Hi J.

Agreed...when bought at the (especially previously) extremely good price, the clear glass Mullard EL38s certainly have no equal, and are tremendous value for money. I never thought anything would/could pip them at the post, so you can imagine my surprise when first the silver-banded Philips (France) EL38s got their heads in front at the line, and my utter disbelief at the EL39 winning by a _neck_ (and a long one at that lol!! ). So I can't wait to see how you find them as powers in your speaker amp...(perhaps a mild sedative beforehand might just be advisable!!  Especially given the number of folks who've gone for an EL39 to EL34 adapter). I think I'm on pretty safe ground as far as their performance in Euforia is concerned lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Now then guys, after a rather hectic day yesterday that saw all but 1 of ampliatubes.fr stock of 17 EL39s fly out (I wonder what they made of that lol!), just a quick reminder when these tubes arrive in the hands of those lucky few :

1. Like most old tubes, they will probably need a bit of a clean. I myself like to use a little white spirit on the glass, top cap and pins (my RT logos didn't come off, but just skirt any if so desired). The silver painted band will probably also benefit, and isn't affected by white spirit. (Watch out for the wire between the glass bottle and base - sometimes its twisted end can stick out very slightly).

2. The pins and top cap may also need a slight clean...I find _fine_ emery paper the best to use (anything more abrasive probably won't be needed...I personally like to keep pins as _smooth_ as possible).

3. Even if already tight, it *always* pays to reinforce where the top cap and base meet the glass with superglue of some kind, just to be sure...old glue failing can wreck an otherwise good tube!

Needless to say, as with all old tubes especially...please treat them _gently_ ....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Re. the short piece of _stranded _wire needed for the EL38 adapter mod I posted recently, it doesn't need to be too fancy a wire, but at least of copper - preferably OFC so as to minimise any corrosion...any problems/questions just give me (or here) a buzz.


----------



## connieflyer

Great work CJ, that should give the folks all information they need to set them on a course of Bliss and understanding just how clever you are to run down these ancient tubes find them convert them make them shine for yourself and others and then just when we think utopia has been found you find another one! Thanks for all your hard work CJ


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Great work CJ, that should give the folks all information they need to set them on a course of Bliss and understanding just how clever you are to run down these ancient tubes find them convert them make them shine for yourself and others and then just when we think utopia has been found you find another one! Thanks for all your hard work CJ


Well said c.f., can't add anything to what you've said other than to wholeheartedly agree.


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Well said c.f., can't add anything to what you've said other than to wholeheartedly agree.





connieflyer said:


> Great work CJ, that should give the folks all information they need to set them on a course of Bliss and understanding just how clever you are to run down these ancient tubes find them convert them make them shine for yourself and others and then just when we think utopia has been found you find another one! Thanks for all your hard work CJ



+1 on that from me on both these posts, although my wife hold a slightly different view thanks to your introducing me to cable DIY'ing. Upside is i have a little bit of neotech silver/gold left over from my latest creation, so i can really indulge the 39's when they arrive... that and i really appreciate your generosity with in sharing your time and knowledge


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks for your kind words guys...it makes the effort all the more worthwhile when others can benefit from it also.

And what can I say @connieflyer ?...except..._*no more tube hunting!!*_ (how many times have I said that lol?! ). But _this_ time - especially for the sake of everyone's burgeoning collection of tubes, as well as my own (not to mention _wallets_!), I sincerely hope this is indeed now 'Utopia'  time......

And @teknorob23 , that sure is a lovely bit of wire you'll be able to mod the adapter with lol! I should imagine your headphones will be singing real sweetly, being treated to that Neotech UP-OCC silver with gold wire!! 

Cheers for now...better get back to some tube testing!


----------



## Tunkejazz

BTW, does the EL39 require special adapters or the adapter for EL38 works?


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 16, 2020)

Tunkejazz said:


> BTW, does the EL39 require special adapters or the adapter for EL38 works?



Hi Tj. ..post edited later, re. the mod I thought would work using the EL38 adapter now turns out not to be the case alas, due to Mrsx's adapters being configured differently to my own, despite my precise instructions lol!


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> I picked up a pair for NOS EL11's last week from these guys in Germany. They didnt have them advertised but i asked and they had them and at 35 euros each which is fairly reasonable compared whats about on ebay at the moment. https://www.m-ware.de I'm fairly new to this amp too but these really do live up to the hype and are serious upgrade over stock tubes and anything else i've tried


That's a great find rob, those EL11's seem to have become as rare as hens teeth, I managed to pick up a pair of NOS RFT a few months ago but seen very little since, so it's always good to know of other possible sources!. Also, if you're interested!, yesterday I tried EL12N with the 38's as powers and the sound was very good too, perhaps a bit more towards neutral, but  lively with good dynamics, and fairly plentiful at a reasonable price.


----------



## Scutey

Btw finally got me sticky mits on the fabled Mullard balloon 38's, see pic above, every bit as good as I'd hoped they'd be, bass has a wonderful weight to it, I can only imagine how good those 39's are going to be compared to these, congrats again h1, on your discovery of both 38/39's, where would we be with out you! .


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 7, 2019)

Just a quick note, guys, that might be useful for those who have missed/can't find a good deal on the EL39.

As I mentioned previously, I discovered that EL38s labelled '*RT*' (3 of mine so far) have _dual _getters as per the 39, other _silver-banded_ EL38s having just a _single _getter (and which would explain why a pair of these RTs is listed on ebay at the higher than normal price of 199 Euros the pair). And I found these RTs had the enhanced performance of the EL39.

In my last batch of EL38s, there was one labelled 'Philips' that *also* has dual getters. So it looks like if one is _really _lucky, you might just hit the jackpot! But the best bet IMHO would be to ask the vendor (if you can find one lol!...perhaps ebay.fr being a good hunting ground) to check whether it has dual or single getter...nothing to lose...GOOD HUNTING!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Btw finally got me sticky mits on the fabled Mullard balloon 38's, see pic above, every bit as good as I'd hoped they'd be, bass has a wonderful weight to it, I can only imagine how good those 39's are going to be compared to these, congrats again h1, on your discovery of both 38/39's, where would we be with out you! .



Well done on those large bottle 'balloon' Mullards, Scutey...they are indeed superb versions of the EL38! Glad you like them. So it's going to be especially interesting to see how you find the 39s compare .


----------



## mordy (Jun 7, 2019)

Scutey said:


> That's a great find rob, those EL11's seem to have become as rare as hens teeth, I managed to pick up a pair of NOS RFT a few months ago but seen very little since, so it's always good to know of other possible sources!. Also, if you're interested!, yesterday I tried EL12N with the 38's as powers and the sound was very good too, perhaps a bit more towards neutral, but  lively with good dynamics, and fairly plentiful at a reasonable price.


Hi Scutey,
There seems to be EL11 tubes available on German eBay. Mostly singles and used, but pairs and more as well:
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=el11+tube&_blrs=spell_check

Somehow this link does not come up the same as German eBay. Just google it and type in EL11 tube and look.


----------



## mordy (Jun 7, 2019)

This French seller has three EL39 tubes:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/VINTAGE-TUB...538736?hash=item4b6164bb70:g:04AAAOSwcSJcnNK7

The plot thickens - on the US site he lists five tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=EL39+tube&_sacat=0

Which tells me that he probably has more of them....


----------



## mordy

Look, I am giving away my shopping secrets! I discovered a new way of finding stuff. Go to Google Images, type in what you are looking for. When the pictures come up, click on what you are interested in. Several pictures appear, click on the one with the heading "Visit", Many times this is a seller somewhere. 
Just found up a French seller who has a quad of the very first 1948 Philips EL39 tubes according to him:






http://www.docteurtubes.com/optimisation-tubes-nos
Use Google Translate if you don't understand the language.
Have fun!
This seller also claims that the EL37 has the same construction as the EL39 and sounds similar - h1?




*The famous EL37 "Mullard" of internal mechanical structure identical to the EL39. sound reproduction very similar.*


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> That's a great find rob, those EL11's seem to have become as rare as hens teeth, I managed to pick up a pair of NOS RFT a few months ago but seen very little since, so it's always good to know of other possible sources!. Also, if you're interested!, yesterday I tried EL12N with the 38's as powers and the sound was very good too, perhaps a bit more towards neutral, but  lively with good dynamics, and fairly plentiful at a reasonable price.



I’ve been amazed  how many valve shops seem to hide deep in the recesses of Google searches, pages 10 and beyond. I guess a good thing for us that they’ve not sorted out their sites search optimisation providing you’ve got the patience to trawl. What el11s there are on eBay seem to be getting up around £75-100 and that’s not even for NOS. Those balloons look great and I’m glad to hear they sound as exotic as they look and I’ll definitely try some el12n at some point. I have a pair of us military sylvanian 7n7 due to arrive any day, along with the el11 and now a brace of el39s as well, so i’ll probably hold fire for a while but it’s always good to have recommendations up the sleeve for more baron times.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Well done on those large bottle 'balloon' Mullards, Scutey...they are indeed superb versions of the EL38! Glad you like them. So it's going to be especially interesting to see how you find the 39s compare .


Definitely looking forward to giving those 39's a go.



mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> There seems to be EL11 tubes available on German eBay. Mostly singles and used, but pairs and more as well:
> https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=el11+tube&_blrs=spell_check
> 
> Somehow this link does not come up the same as German eBay. Just google it and type in EL11 tube and look.


Thanks for the link mordy, there's been a few more added since I last looked!


teknorob23 said:


> I’ve been amazed  how many valve shops seem to hide deep in the recesses of Google searches, pages 10 and beyond. I guess a good thing for us that they’ve not sorted out their sites search optimisation providing you’ve got the patience to trawl. What el11s there are on eBay seem to be getting up around £75-100 and that’s not even for NOS. Those balloons look great and I’m glad to hear they sound as exotic as they look and I’ll definitely try some el12n at some point. I have a pair of us military sylvanian 7n7 due to arrive any day, along with the el11 and now a brace of el39s as well, so i’ll probably hold fire for a while but it’s always good to have recommendations up the sleeve for more baron times.


Busy times on the tube from eh!, , I've been meaning to get a pair of the 7N7 for a while I just never seem to round to getting some, also it'll be interesting to see who gets to hear the 39's first, that's assuming we got them from the same place! .


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Look, I am giving away my shopping secrets! I discovered a new way of finding stuff. Go to Google Images, type in what you are looking for. When the pictures come up, click on what you are interested in. Several pictures appear, click on the one with the heading "Visit", Many times this is a seller somewhere.
> Just found up a French seller who has a quad of the very first 1948 Philips EL39 tubes according to him:
> 
> 
> ...



Hi mordy, and thanks for info that can sometimes prove useful. But deeper research also into past info and posted findings of those who have personal experience is always to be recommended IMHO....even if much more time consuming lol!  For example, those in the know re. the EL39 state that the very early *red*-banded Philips version that you showed is nowhere near as good as the later *silver*-banded one with gold signal grid wires... (very dismissive of it in fact!!). The red band would indicate that it is in fact more the predecessor 4654 tube, but with octal base instead of the latter's awful side contact 'paddle' base...and which from my own examples I can confirm does not look as well constructed either!!

Re. the EL37, my own suspicion is that the EL39 is probably an identical version of the 37 (apart from base size) _but with top cap anode_...in the same vein as EL12 and 12 _Spezial. _And actually I personally, along with most other folks, have always found such top cap versions to outperform their counterparts. And so I would think it quite possible that this also applies to the EL39...which makes the recent tube acquisitions incredible value when you look at the price of decent EL37s lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy, and thanks for info that can sometimes prove useful. But deeper research also into past info and posted findings of those who have personal experience is always to be recommended IMHO....even if much more time consuming lol!  For example, those in the know re. the EL39 state that the very early *red*-banded Philips version that you showed is nowhere near as good as the later *silver*-banded one with gold signal grid wires... (very dismissive of it in fact!!). The red band would indicate that it is in fact more the predecessor 4654 tube, but with octal base instead of the latter's awful side contact 'paddle' base...and which from my own examples I can confirm does not look as well constructed either!!
> 
> Re. the EL37, my own suspicion is that the EL39 is probably an identical version of the 37 (apart from base size) _but with top cap anode_...in the same vein as EL12 and 12 _Spezial. _And actually I personally, along with most other folks, have always found such top cap versions to outperform their counterparts. And so I would think it quite possible that this also applies to the EL39...which makes the recent tube acquisitions incredible value when you look at the price of decent EL37s lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


Hi h1,
I appreciate your insights - thanks. I do not have any of the EL37-39 tubes. My main intent was to show a different way of finding tubes for sale.


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## DecentLevi (Jun 8, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Now then guys, after a rather hectic day yesterday that saw all but 1 of ampliatubes.fr stock of 17 EL39s fly out (I wonder what they made of that lol!), just a quick reminder when these tubes arrive in the hands of those lucky few :
> 
> 1. Like most old tubes, they will probably need a bit of a clean. I myself like to use a little white spirit on the glass, top cap and pins (my RT logos didn't come off, but just skirt any if so desired). The silver painted band will probably also benefit, and isn't affected by white spirit. (Watch out for the wire between the glass bottle and base - sometimes its twisted end can stick out very slightly).
> 
> ...


I tried cleaning my EL38 pins and especially top cap (after modest amount of superglue dried on top) with a baking soda & toothbrush method (with a few drops of water) I read about elsewhere. It made absolutely 0 result to the rust, so maybe next time can either try white spirit (I believe we call it "paint thinner" in the USA) or deoxit again. All in all they work though, and are my top powers, when paired with select tubes.



freesole said:


> Intrigued with the EL11's. Where does one find these for sale?
> 
> I replaced the Sylvania 6SN7's with Tungsol 6SN7GTB's and I instantly enjoy the sound more. More coherent with increased clarity throughout the range without that obvious distortion that I heard with the Sylvania's.


Not sure on a source for Valvo EL11's, eBay or Google Images could yield a few. These were scarce 2 years ago when I got what I thought was the last one. Make no mistake however, the Valvo EL11 outclass the normal Telefunken or RFT EL11, IMHO - better imaging, larger soundstage and sense of openness / emotional feel. Don't quote me on this but I believe Tungsram EL11 seem fairly identical. And now I've just noticed there are a few nice looking Valvo EL11's on eBay.


----------



## freesole

teknorob23 said:


> I picked up a pair for NOS EL11's last week from these guys in Germany. They didnt have them advertised but i asked and they had them and at 35 euros each which is fairly reasonable compared whats about on ebay at the moment. https://www.m-ware.de I'm fairly new to this amp too but these really do live up to the hype and are serious upgrade over stock tubes and anything else i've tried



Hmmm looks like they only carry the Telefunkens. Definitely a great find! I'm also trying to find the Valvo's which people seem to have had good experiences with. Can't seem to find any though.


----------



## DecentLevi

freesole said:


> Hmmm looks like they only carry the Telefunkens. Definitely a great find! I'm also trying to find the Valvo's which people seem to have had good experiences with. Can't seem to find any though.


eBay has Valvo EL11 now, good ones just search for it.

So now that H1's source for of the 17 EL39 tubes have all been sold, that would be interesting to see who were the takers of these gems... all people from this thread or mostly outsiders with other amps? Alright, were giving you folks 2 days to come forward! (LOL)

I bought the last one of that EL39 source, and was lucky to also find a stealthy looking single off eBay from a French seller to complete a pair, shown below which I think is also similar to the one from H1's source.
 

Also if you search eBay for EL39 Philips there are a few more under international sellers


----------



## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> eBay has Valvo EL11 now, good ones just search for it.
> 
> So now that H1's source for of the 17 EL39 tubes have all been sold, that would be interesting to see who were the takers of these gems... all people from this thread or mostly outsiders with other amps? Alright, were giving you folks 2 days to come forward! (LOL)
> 
> ...



X 4 here


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi .

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that as you say, the Valvo EL11 is probably the best version out there. And although traditionally, Telefunken (who actually developed this tube) was regarded as the best, their line that has a milky grey appearance has proved to me to be about the most unreliable tube I've ever come across!! ...so not at all recommended lol. And although Tungsram tubes can sometimes be a bit 'hit and miss', I have just tested one (with a slightly different shape, like a different-to-normal Valvo) and it sounds as good as any I have ever tried (apart from the _mesh_-plated, black glass Valvo/Philips [Australia] EL3N*G*). Mind you, this 'Tungsram'-stamped tube could very possibly be a Valvo made one anyway!! ...(it was actually sold as a 'Valvo' by the German seller).

Re. that stock of 17 EL39s, I'm happy to say that restricting the source to our companions via PM seems to have done the trick, and kept them 'in house'! ...apologies to any 'outsiders'!!

And I too saw that 'unmarked and untested' EL39 on ebay at a very good price, and wondered about it...would certainly have gone for it if it weren't for the ampliatubes supply! It will indeed be the same as the others...it's pretty clear that all the 'Philips'/'Dario'/'RT' labelled tubes came from RT (France) factories. Hope it is indeed a good condition tube for you...

As for top caps and pins that may need a clean/derust.... as I mentioned previously, _fine_ emery paper does the job perfectly and leaves a smoother surface than a rougher grade paper or the edge of a knife, for example lol ..._smooth pins are best!!  _And 'white spirit'/paint thinner (not _cellulose _thinners!) is good only for grease type marks/dirt, or a (greasy) protective coating sometimes used on the pins....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I may as well add my two cents to this.  I bought a pair of NOS NIB Valvo's last year, and at the time did not use but a couple of hours, before I came into another pair of tubes, one of which was a black glass mesh plate valvo, compliments of CJ, thanks again, my friend. And these were, and are superb. I used this combo with various powers and they worked quite well.  It was only about a 150 hours ago I finally put the NOS valvo's in the mix, after my fat glass El38's went haywire on me, almost lost my phones.  I did not have them on at the time, as I went for coffee, and as I came back, there was en enormous loud crack sound from the phones.  Pulled power immediately.  Damage done, to the tubes only. Senn 800 survived, don't know why, I assumed with a signal that loud, I would have lost a driver. I am just glad they were not on my head at the time, would have been painful at the least. At any rate, put the converted El38's in and decided to try the Valvos and was very pleased with what I heard. They are indeed a great tube if you can find them. Prices are all over the place. When I bought mine, I paid $56 US for the pair. I am quite anxious to see how these Valvo's do with the EL39's.  I want to try the mesh plate in the circuit again, but they have not been back for a while. So many tubes, so little time.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 8, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> I may as well add my two cents to this.  I bought a pair of NOS NIB Valvo's last year, and at the time did not use but a couple of hours, before I came into another pair of tubes, one of which was a black glass mesh plate valvo, compliments of CJ, thanks again, my friend. And these were, and are superb. I used this combo with various powers and they worked quite well.  It was only about a 150 hours ago I finally put the NOS valvo's in the mix, after my fat glass El38's went haywire on me, almost lost my phones.  I did not have them on at the time, as I went for coffee, and as I came back, there was en enormous loud crack sound from the phones.  Pulled power immediately.  Damage done, to the tubes only. Senn 800 survived, don't know why, I assumed with a signal that loud, I would have lost a driver. I am just glad they were not on my head at the time, would have been painful at the least. At any rate, put the converted El38's in and decided to try the Valvos and was very pleased with what I heard. They are indeed a great tube if you can find them. Prices are all over the place. When I bought mine, I paid $56 US for the pair. I am quite anxious to see how these Valvo's do with the EL39's.  I want to try the mesh plate in the circuit again, but they have not been back for a while. So many tubes, so little time.



That certainly is tragic news re. your 'balloon' Mullards, cf. Am so glad your headphones - and amp - survived though.

*Important notes below on this subject*

What your unfortunate experience has confirmed however is that any tube that has the slightest microphonic ringing/hiss/crackle that doesn't go away pretty quickly, or isn't remedied by the usual pin/socket cleaning and reseating, or re-fixing of top cap (if present) or base if at all loose, then if it continues without improvement for a day or two it's probably best to either _bin_ it, or return as faulty if recently purchased. Often, this potential (eventually fatal!) problem will also be indicated by a 'rattling' type of sound when the tube is _gently_ shaken and/or lightly tapped...as has, sadly, just happened to me (and in the past with other tubes)) with one of my RT branded EL38s (ie. identical to the EL39).... Such a 'rattle' is not to be confused with what sounds like a loose piece of glass inside, and which is harmless...so long as the tube actually works lol!

Anyway, mon ami, at least one balloon replacement will shortly be on its way to you as recompense . Speaking of which, I'd better get back to checking and sorting tubes lol! ...BFN...CJ

ps. Sometimes a hiss/crackle might possibly be due to poor connection of a tube's wire at the pin end, and if lucky, you just might be able to resolder it back with a hot iron held there for a short while...worth a try at least, before consigning to the bin!


----------



## barontan2418

teknorob23 said:


> X 4 here


2x here. Plus a third from another seller.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> 2x here. Plus a third from another seller.


The usual suspects then!, and I count myself too! .


----------



## freesole

2 here for me too. Thanks for the tip, @hypnos1


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @DecentLevi .
> 
> I'm fast coming to the conclusion that as you say, the Valvo EL11 is probably the best version out there. And although traditionally, Telefunken (who actually developed this tube) was regarded as the best, their line that has a milky grey appearance has proved to me to be about the most unreliable tube I've ever come across!! ...so not at all recommended lol. And although Tungsram tubes can sometimes be a bit 'hit and miss', I have just tested one (with a slightly different shape, like a different-to-normal Valvo) and it sounds as good as any I have ever tried (apart from the _mesh_-plated, black glass Valvo/Philips [Australia] EL3N*G*). Mind you, this 'Tungsram'-stamped tube could very possibly be a Valvo made one anyway!! ...(it was actually sold as a 'Valvo' by the German seller).
> 
> ...


Yup, and my initial reason for saying the Tungsram EL11 must be similar to Valvo EL11 stems from my having a single Tungsram EL12 and it looks & sounds basically identical to the Valvo EL12; both Valvo / Tungsram EL11 and EL12 (could have) been made at the same factory, as you mentioned.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> 2x here.* Plus a third from another seller.*



Wise man, bt...you'll not regret it lol!


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, time for a quick (promise!) *UPDATE ON THE EL39.
*
With my EL39s performing so well from the off, I had assumed that this tube peaks much earlier than others of the EL family....*wrong again!* As normal in fact, it has continued to improve even more over the good few hours since I started this particular journey. 

I have already covered fairly comprehensively its supreme qualities...so please just go back over my recent posts if not yet aware of them lol. But I wasn't prepared for what I've just been listening to...ie. my acid test for male voice especially - Jonas Kaufmann's amazing ability, as showcased in his album 'Best of'...and specifically the 2 tracks 'E lucevan le stelle' from Tosca, and 'Vesti la giubba' from Pagliacci. The less-than-ideal balance by the engineer between him and the orchestra will test any system mercilessly...his voice only too easily being completely dominated by said orchestra, making it very difficult to judge not only his performance, but the system's true dynamics handling ability. For the first time ever, these 39s - in my system - somehow manage to cope with this anomaly extremely well and allow his magnificent voice to shine like never before. And the better overall balance is another Godsend!

And so for this feat of magic alone, I'm more than ever before in total awe of this tube, and am quite sure you lucky folks are in for your own real treat...very soon, hopefully! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

These turned up today. They’re not what I was expecting or what was shown the photo on the German shop https://www.m-ware.de/
which were telefunken’s similar to the pair of valvos I had. Not knowing my valve from my elbow and before I send them back, I was hoping to get some advice as to whether they are worth trying first.  On a similar note of ignorance (still mine), there are various el11’s appearing on eBay and elseware made by Siemens, Philips and tungsram. Does anyone have a view on these?
Thanks


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 10, 2019)

FYI, I updated this post showing all the (main) compatible tube types to include some I looked over: 6H8C which is interchangeable for 6SN7 such as the Melz, and 5998 which is interchangeable for 6AS7G or 6080.

Personally I never found any extremely synergetic combinations for the Tung Sul 5998 on the Elise or Euforia, sounding good but always a bit overtly bass anemic and sweet / euphonic for me, though this is a very highly acclaimed tube on other threads so I'm just holding onto it for a possible future amp. Also not included was the FDD20 and ECC31 (20/31 as @UntilThen calls it), because they require adapters with external heating. Speaking of whom, PLEASE DO say hi, great 'ol buddy! You were one of the main showrunners to give momentum to Feliks Audio amps in the good old heydey!! We would be highly amused to hear about your recent audio journey and I think we'll be in good spirit even if it detracts from the Euforia topic sometimes


----------



## ZRW0

teknorob23 said:


> These turned up today. They’re not what I was expecting or what was shown the photo on the German shop https://www.m-ware.de/
> which were telefunken’s similar to the pair of valvos I had. Not knowing my valve from my elbow and before I send them back, I was hoping to get some advice as to whether they are worth trying first.  On a similar note of ignorance (still mine), there are various el11’s appearing on eBay and elseware made by Siemens, Philips and tungsram. Does anyone have a view on these?
> Thanks


Hi Teknorob,

I have the same pair of strait EL11s from Telefunken.
 
And they are quite decent.
So, if the EL11 are becoming quite hard to find, why not to give a try to the pair your just received ? (and If any issue (crackling, microphonics), just send them back).

Regards,

Erwan.

PS: Still with the EL38 as powers, I personally prefer EL32 over EL11 as drivers. Much more smooth and delicate details to my taste.


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I just ordered a medium lot of assorted 7N7 tubes and adapters thanks to the revelation from @Johnnysound a few pages back... though I spent my weekend spa retreat money on this so it better be good or let's just say Johnny, there will be consequences LOL!


----------



## ZRW0

DecentLevi said:


> FYI, I updated this post showing all the (main) compatible tube types to include some I looked over: 6H8C which is interchangeable for 6SN7 such as the Melz, and 5998 which is interchangeable for 6AS7G or 6080.
> 
> Personally I never found any extremely synergetic combinations for the Tung Sul 5998 on the Elise or Euforia, sounding good but always a bit overtly bass anemic and sweet / euphonic for me, though this is a very highly acclaimed tube on other threads so I'm just holding onto it for a possible future amp. Also not included was the FDD20 and ECC31 (20/31 as @UntilThen calls it), because they require adapters with external heating. Speaking of whom, PLEASE DO say hi, great 'ol buddy! You were one of the main showrunners to give momentum to Feliks Audio amps in the good old heydey!! We would be highly amused to hear about your recent audio journey and I think we'll be in good spirit even if it detracts from the Euforia topic sometimes



Hi DL,

Agreed on the Melz 6H8C which are great disregarded tubes.
On my side, I've been a long time enthusiast (and I actually still am) of the TS-5998.
With either Sylvania 6SN7GTB or KR-VT231 or KR-VT99 as drivers, I've never suffered anemic basses. (With the KenRads more especially - my favorite non EL family drivers)
With other tubes such as RCA 5692 or PsVane CV181 or Melz 6H8C, 5998 don't pair well, I agree.

Best here for powers with the Euforia, were the WE 421A. 
But their price has reached totally insane levels (now ~1k€/$ a pair). 
(Even worse for B65 as drivers. Now 3k€/$ a pair in NOS condition !)

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## teknorob23

ZRW0 said:


> Hi Teknorob,
> 
> I have the same pair of strait EL11s from Telefunken.
> 
> ...



thanks for coming back to me Erwan. Unfortunately they're both full of noise and not in a good way. Just waiting to arrange the return


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi Teknorob,
> 
> I have the same pair of strait EL11s from Telefunken.
> 
> ...



Hi Erwan. 

Glad you still like the EL38s as powers...and the EL32 does partner well with them - but not for all systems/ears it appears alas...including mine, now with the Empyrean headphones especially.
And I must admit that my _mesh_-plate EL11s do have an overall edge over the standard versions, but these are now impossible to find, unfortunately!

I will say, however, that from my recent test with 'ordinary' EL11s driving the EL3*9*s, they sound a good bit better than with the later clear glass Mullard 38s .

And as for the prices of those WE 421As (which many say are 'merely' hand picked 5998s?!) and B65s..._ridiculous!_ Especially given the performance of _far_ cheaper EL38s (particularly the silver-banded versions) and 39s as powers, and some of the EL family as drivers....if they can be used, besides (amazingly!) in our amps that is!


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> thanks for coming back to me Erwan. Unfortunately they're both full of noise and not in a good way. Just waiting to arrange the return


That's a shame trob...from past ebay activity, this version never did seem to attract a lot of excitement from the guys in Germany especially, alas...

Good luck in your search...but will be testing a pair of my 'milky' TFKs soon to make sure they are in fact good examples of the (often not so reliable) breed, if interested lol


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Erwan.
> 
> Glad you still like the EL38s as powers...and the EL32 does partner well with them - but not for all systems/ears it appears alas...including mine, now with the Empyrean headphones especially.



Hi H1,

Well I had a crush on the Empyrean myself, like you and some other folks here 
I received mine for about a month and listen to it on a daily basis.... and definitely I do prefer the EL32/EL38 combo with the Empyrean.
The EL11s (or EL3Ns I used both, and just gave another try to the EL11s just today) are too bright and punchy to me, almost agressive, and end up being tiring after long listening sessions...

Time to turn off the Euforia, wait for cool-down, and to put back my Mullard EL32s.


 

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi H1,
> 
> Well I had a crush on the Empyrean myself, like you and some other folks here
> I received mine for about a month and listen to it on a daily basis.... and definitely I do prefer the EL32/EL38 combo with the Empyrean.
> ...



Hi again Erwan.

Congrats on the Empys...a wonderful headphone IMHO! 

As always, it's quite surprising how different folks/systems experience the same tube differently. But that's what makes this hobby so fascinating lol! Have you tried the shoulder type 'coke bottle' version of the EL32 at all? Most of us found this to perform even better than the straight glass version. But the latter certainly can't be beaten for value-for-money - ridiculously cheap for such a good tube!...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> As always, it's quite surprising how different folks/systems experience the same tube differently. But that's what makes this hobby so fascinating lol! Have you tried the shoulder type 'coke bottle' version of the EL32 at all? Most of us found this to perform even better than the straight glass version. But the latter certainly can't be beaten for value-for-money - ridiculously cheap for such a good tube!...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


Yes, I still have my good old pair of relatively hard to find  "Shoulder Type Black Coated EL32".
This pair took me 100 hours of burn-in with either EL32 or EL11Spez as powers before really "talking".
So I actually tried this pair when I was a bit disappointed with the EL11 and the Empyrean.
And it was definitely much better, despite some contacts which have become a bit capricious.

This is because of those transient contact issues (just at start-up) that I swapped them with those Straight Mullard EL32s I received long time ago, but never actually used.
So, I was expecting long burn-in and a bit less performance as well, but once put in the Euforia with the EL38s, the pleasure with the Empyrean has been absolutely immediate !
Everything was obvious, all details were there, dynamics, details and smoothness. No fatigue after hours of listening.
I just have to put the volume knob to twice the level I'd use with the EL11s.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Yes, I still have my good old pair of relatively hard to find  "Shoulder Type Black Coated EL32".
> This pair took me 100 hours of burn-in with either EL32 or EL11Spez as powers before really "talking".
> So I actually tried this pair when I was a bit disappointed with the EL11 and the Empyrean.
> And it was definitely much better, despite some contacts which have become a bit capricious.
> ...



That's unfortunate about your ST shape EL32s, but it seems like you have a wonderfully bargain cost combo that provides the sound that suits you best. And one that no doubt competes with other amps using much more expensive tubes lol ...so can't be bad!! .

ps. For anyone interested in the coated ST ('coke bottle') shape EL32 (CV1052), I have a few spare (NOS, with just burn-in hours on them) that I've converted using Neotech UP-OCC silver and copper wires, and will offer here before probably going on fleabay later.


----------



## connieflyer

I guess I may as well put mine back in and see how they compare to more recent combos.  Have the dark and clear versions, so can compare them too, if not too busy


----------



## Scutey

I retried a pair of the dark ST version about a month ago with the EL38 and from what I remember, I found that compared to the other EL it tubes it was a bit too polite and soft, at least for my tastes.


----------



## myphone

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Erwan.
> 
> Glad you still like the EL38s as powers...and the EL32 does partner well with them - but not for all systems/ears it appears alas...including mine, now with the Empyrean headphones especially.
> And I must admit that my _mesh_-plate EL11s do have an overall edge over the standard versions, but these are now impossible to find, unfortunately!
> ...



WE 421As' structure and sound are similar to clear-top 5998, but quite different from regular (chrome top) 5998.


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## hypnos1 (Jun 11, 2019)

myphone said:


> WE 421As' structure and sound are similar to clear-top 5998, but quite different from regular (chrome top) 5998.



Hi myphone...the moral of the tale being...._buy the clear-top 5998._...(if you can find it...and at a good price lol!! ). But for us here, I'd now wager the EL39 can even outperform it, given the sound that's now coming from my system. Listening to Loreena McKennitt's DVD of 'Nights from the Alhambra' (via 48kHz, 24 bit audio out) last night had me yet again in total awe of these 39s as powers, driven by my Valvo EL11s. *Nothing* has come anywhere near this performance...not even the mighty GEC/Osram CV2523/A1834, which I'm quite sure isn't far behind the 421A (and many would say is actually the equal). And at a price that puts said WE/Tung Sols/GECs to utter shame IMHO ...


----------



## connieflyer

I would have to agree with you on the  Gec tubes, I had those as well as the Gec 6080 tubes and sold them a while back, as I did not think they sounded as good as the El 38. As far as the TS 5998, I have a pair that were NOS matched at 11000/11000, that I swap in occasionally, as still enjoy. They have about 3-400 hours on them now, and when the El 39 arrives will probably sell those off. Still A GREAT Tube.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I would have to agree with you on the  Gec tubes, I had those as well as the Gec 6080 tubes and sold them a while back, as I did not think they sounded as good as the El 38. As far as the TS 5998, I have a pair that were NOS matched at 11000/11000, that I swap in occasionally, as still enjoy. They have about 3-400 hours on them now, and when the El 39 arrives will probably sell those off. Still A GREAT Tube.



Reckon you will indeed be a few $$$$ better off when those EL39s arrive, cf! ...yet another of my acid tests passed with flying colours today - amongst other attributes, the ability to keep everything under control in a very complex and dynamic piece...ie. my stalwart track 'Battle', from the music soundtrack of 'Gladiator'. Once again, this tube (as power) excels at separation and placement of instruments to a degree never experienced before, even with the orchestra at full throttle. Effortless control at *all *dynamic levels in fact...the overriding feeling one of reassuring total command and grip of the reproduced sound.

Never before have I been so unexpectedly, and deeply, impressed by a tube's abilities...apart, perhaps, from my initial response to the EL38! But on extended listening, this EL39 is suredly in another league IMHO. 
For anyone waiting to hear others' findings before going any further, I know of another French site who has NOS Philips 39s (2 max at present, but don't know if this is _per order_ or total stock), but at the more expensive price of 49 Euros each...which I reckon will be the best price around for these very rare/scarce tubes. If interested, just PM me.


----------



## connieflyer

Maybe I should have ordered 4! Just for the spares! If all you say, is correct, I will have a lot of tubes to sell,  Vt99,Vt52 original boxes 1948, lots of El 32, 6SN7,gold aero 5998a,Ts5998, 6AS7,Kr231, probably should get at it, and use the money towards a Empy!


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## connieflyer

Interesting read. 5998, identical to  WE421A  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5998.html


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## teknorob23

A night off for the Valvos, thank you @Johnnysound 2 boxed US ARMY Sylvania 7N7 arrived this morning dated 4/45 and they're running completely hiss free and sounding good so far. I'm guessing if the date is reliable, at their grand age, they may need a bit of a run in??


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## Johnnysound (Jun 12, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Also I just ordered a medium lot of assorted 7N7 tubes and adapters thanks to the revelation from @Johnnysound a few pages back... though I spent my weekend spa retreat money on this so it better be good or let's just say Johnny, there will be consequences LOL!



Hi @DecentLevi,  and,  as always, no guarantees LOL !! (see next one)



teknorob23 said:


> A night off for the Valvos, thank you @Johnnysound 2 boxed US ARMY Sylvania 7@2N7 arrived this morning dated 4/45 and they're running completely hiss free and sounding good so far. I'm guessing if the date is reliable, at their grand age, they may need a bit of a run in??



Hi, @teknorob23 and congrats on those “US Army” 7N7s...being Sylvanias they look identical to my “US Navy” ones, it is quite rare  to find them NOS and boxed, indeed !!  They do need a good run in to sound best, and I have found that this particular old tubes also need _at least_ half an hour (or maybe more) of warming up to reach peak performance.

In my lot of 7N7s I prefer the sound of the “long bottles” over the short ones.  Among them, brands like National Union and Lansdale  also sounded quite good and very similar (the latter may be in fact a rebranded Sylvania), albeit I ended preferring the “dark glass military” ones for their smoothness and clarity,  and specially for their “control” of the EL38s...there is synergy here and I found them one of the best drivers for the 38s...in my system of course, and I reckon that I use Euforia mostly as preamp...with another four EL38s downstream in the power amp.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 11, 2019)

I'm thinking to have one of my EL12 Spez tubes repaired, because for me it may still be my all time best performing tube, even with the EL38's. The top connector broke off when packing it last year, fortunately however leaving a usable wire poking out. I want to just solder the top pin directly to the top cap wire of Xuling's adapter (without the top caps). But what would one recommend in terms of solidyfing this very fragile top wire from breaking off if bumped? I thought maybe a nice lump of hot glue over the whole thing hold it in place, but I would question whether the tube's heat would melt it back off.
Thanx


----------



## Johnnysound

DecentLevi said:


> I'm thinking to have one of my EL12 Spez tubes repaired, because for me it may still be my all time best performing tube, even with the EL38's. The top connector broke off when packing it last year, fortunately however leaving a usable wire poking out. I want to just solder the top pin directly to the top cap wire of Xuling's adapter (without the top caps). But what would one recommend in terms of solidyfing this very fragile top wire from breaking off if bumped? I thought maybe a nice lump of hot glue over the whole thing hold it in place, but I would question whether the tube's heat would melt it back off.
> Thanx



Solder the wires using the ceramic top caps as protectors of the soldered joint, filling them with epoxy...it will also glue the caps to the top of the  tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi

Thanks much Johnny, I may consider that but I wanted to eliminate the extra signal path of the cap itself for possibly a more direct connection


----------



## teknorob23

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @DecentLevi,  and,  as always, no guarantees LOL !! (see next one)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you this is all good to know and yes there was definitely an improvement after a days warm up, but I appreciate there’s probably more to come. Early thoughts are they dont have the supernatural depth of the el11, but everything about the presentation is very natural and "right" sounding. Bass goes very deep but its clean and nicely layered and there's plenty of snap in the treble. I'm using the euforia 99% as HP amp, running out of the Hugo2 into Focal Stellia. And i'm about 150 hrs in to running in a new DIY HP cable made of the angel hair that is Neotech's Silver/ Gold UP OCC wire, which is fortunately paying back is exorbitant price tag with astonishing levels of detail retrieval and added depth (this depth has to be heard, i almost thought something was broken at first). The only downside so far if you can call it that, is its almost brutal levels of clarity detail unsurprisingly at the top end, which EL11 were walking a tight rope with some complicated electronica, to being on the verge of too much. The 7N7's have smoothed out things out at the top, but without any apparent loss of sparkle or micro details and seem to be going toe to toe with the Valvos in terms of bass weight and depth. They may not have the out and out "look-at-me" wow factor of the El11 but they have something that makes me want just play one more album,,, and i really should be getting on with some work now 

Looking like a bargain $31 dollars + shipping for the pair and heres a pic of the boxes, thanks again for the heads up much appreciated


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Thank you this is all good to know and yes there was definitely an improvement after a days warm up, but I appreciate there’s probably more to come. Early thoughts are they dont have the supernatural depth of the el11, but everything about the presentation is very natural and "right" sounding. Bass goes very deep but its clean and nicely layered and there's plenty of snap in the treble. I'm using the euforia 99% as HP amp, running out of the Hugo2 into Focal Stellia. And i'm about 150 hrs in to running in a new DIY HP cable made of the angel hair that is Neotech's Silver/ Gold UP OCC wire, which is fortunately paying back is exorbitant price tag with astonishing levels of detail retrieval and added depth (this depth has to be heard, i almost thought something was broken at first). The only downside so far if you can call it that, is its almost brutal levels of clarity detail unsurprisingly at the top end, which EL11 were walking a tight rope with some complicated electronica, to being on the verge of too much. The 7N7's have smoothed out things out at the top, but without any apparent loss of sparkle or micro details and seem to be going toe to toe with the Valvos in terms of bass weight and depth. They may not have the out and out "look-at-me" wow factor of the El11 but they have something that makes me want just play one more album,,, and i really should be getting on with some work now
> 
> Looking like a bargain $31 dollars + shipping for the pair and heres a pic of the boxes, thanks again for the heads up much appreciated



Good to hear your hp cable using that wonderful Neotech UP-OCC silver with added gold wire is proving worth its cost (despite those tiny wires making stripping/soldering a bit of a nightmare lol! ). I dread to think how much such an animal would cost commercially - if available anyway, which I haven't yet seen anywhere!...WELL DONE...

It certainly worked wonders for my friend Olli's HD800s (v1), and his friend in Germany won't now use anything else...(but neither is short of a penny or two!!). Even in my short length of coax digital cable, mixed with UP-OCC silver and copper wires, I could notice improvement. Was tempted to add some to my already 12x UP-OCC-wired hp cable, but fortunately, the EL39s bring enough extra to the table that I can save my wallet from melt-down..._for now_, at least ...

And those 7N7s are indeed extremely good...especially at that price!  Better value-for-money than any 6SN7 IMHO...ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Well guys, the EL38/39 plot thickens.

As I've suspected for a while now, I'm pretty convinced that there were strange goings-on at the French factories way back then, regarding production of the EL38 and EL39 tubes.

As mentioned previously, the RT labelled 38 is totally identical in construction to the 39, apart from having the shorter base. Soundwise, they are also identical (to my ears). And now I find that a _Mazda_ (France, obviously) branded EL38 (also under the Philips umbrella?) is also matching the 39's performance, even though of slightly different construction - different getter shape(s); no silver banding; different top to the heater...but still with ceramic post insulators and gold signal grid wires. So this Mazda EL38 is another worth keeping an eye out for...an _eagle_ eye, should I say!! ...(shown in this photo - the righthand power, still in its testing adapter, so should sound even _better_ with the full surgery treatment lol!).

 

This combo of Philips EL39 and Mazda EL38 sounds every bit as good as 2x EL39s...amazing...but _strange!_ 

Now then, for those awaiting their EL39s from ampliatubes...I was a little surprised to see that some have a much lighter internal coating than others (as with the EL37), and my particular RTs have dual _rectangular_ 'halo' getters, as opposed to other Philips/Dario branded tubes with inverted 'pan' type ones. But whatever, they all sound equally magnificent, so no worries whichever your own tubes possess lol! ...(A photo of said RT 39) :

 



Hopefully some of you should soon be able to judge this tube for yourselves...and please remember the (obligatory!! ) advice I mentioned recently as the first things to do before putting them anywhere near your amp...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 13, 2019)

H1 (Colin) that obligatory step would be to superglue to top cap on just in case, right?
... reinforce it with superglue rather than attempting to nudge it first to glue underneath it.

Also I realized the reason I was never overtly impressed with my Tung Sol 5998's may have been because mine have the silver top instead of clear top.


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 14, 2019)

Hi H1. This is how I have wired EL39's and I'm not getting any sound in the headphones. Is the above correct and is their anything else I should have done?


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. This is how I have wired EL39's and I'm not getting any sound in the headphones. Is the above correct and is their anything else I should have done?


Hi bt, your EL39's have been delivered?.


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Hi bt, your EL39's have been delivered?.


Yes but not yet working?


----------



## ZRW0

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. This is how I have wired EL39's and I'm not getting any sound in the headphones. Is the above correct and is their anything else I should have done?



Just received mine, and same issue here.
Also the EL38 adapters from Mrs X have their anode wires a bit too short for the EL39's height... and I really don't like pulling on those wires, and see them tighten and pulling on the anodes of the tubes...
Is the H1 trick working on Mrs X's adapters ?


----------



## connieflyer

Do if you look at this page you will see they are compared to chrome top, same as https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5998.html these are the same as what I have, and they are great tubes


----------



## ZRW0 (Jun 14, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Do if you look at this page you will see they are compared to chrome top, same as https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5998.html these are the same as what I have, and they are great tubes


Hi CF, DL,

Yes I agree with you CF, 5998 Chrome-tops are great tubes as well.

I'm the happy owner of WE-421A, TS-5998-ChromeTop, and CV2523.
I bought the WE-421A used, the others as NOS.

At first the 421A were far ahead all the other power tubes I had.
When I first tried the 5998 Chrome-top, I found them just "meh".

As my 421A were aging, I started to use the 5998 more and more, and actually found they started revealing their potential after hours and hours of burn-in.
They are now close to the performance of my 421As , yet a bit less holographic (unfortunately, one of my 421A has started to cough a bit when hot, some I'm using them less and less).

Regarding the CV2523, although I agree with H1 regarding the build quality of this tube, even after hours of burn-in, I never found they sounded as good as the 421A or as the 5998-Chrome-top.
To me they are just better than a good pair of 6080 or 7236, but not by that much. Given the price of 6080s or 7236s, the price of CV2523 isn't justified at all to me.

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. This is how I have wired EL39's and I'm not getting any sound in the headphones. Is the above correct and is their anything else I should have done?



Hi bt.

Looks like you've done the correct wire mod, so it _should_ be OK. Do the heaters light up? And do the pins manage to go well down in the socket? If not, this would also stretch the anode wire a bit, especially as the 39's base is larger than the 38's. And pins are clean, of course?

And now I see you find the same thing @ZRW0 ...this is beginning to have me wondering just how Mrsx has configured her adapters!! I shall have a go at trying to replicate what they might have done and find a solution, as well as ask them to send me info on their layout. So it might be best to wait until I find out what's happening here...CJ


----------



## ZRW0 (Jun 14, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt.
> 
> Looks like you've done the correct wire mod, so it _should_ be OK. Do the heaters light up? And do the pins manage to go well down in the socket? If not, this would also stretch the anode wire a bit, especially as the 39's base is larger than the 38's. And pins are clean, of course?
> 
> And now I see you find the same thing @ZRW0 ...this is beginning to have me wondering just how Mrsx has configured her adapters!! I shall have a go at trying to replicate what they might have done and find a solution, as well as ask them to send me info on their layout. So it might be best to wait until I find out what's happening here...CJ



Did the same as you recommenced and as BT did. On my side, heaters light up, yes.

BTW, who was in contact with Mrs X ?
Given the current issue and the very tight/short anode wire of the EL38 adapters for the EL39 tubes, for the ones not comfortable with soldering and doings adapters by themselves (like me), maybe it'd be better to ask Mrs X to build new adapters dedicated to EL39s...


----------



## ZRW0

This issue of not working/emitting-any-sound apart, EL39s combined with black/dark-grey drivers as well give a very nice look to the Euforia.

(Note the anode caps being pulled from behind with MrsX adapters)


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 14, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt.
> 
> Looks like you've done the correct wire mod, so it _should_ be OK. Do the heaters light up? And do the pins manage to go well down in the socket? If not, this would also stretch the anode wire a bit, especially as the 39's base is larger than the 38's. And pins are clean, of course?
> 
> ...



Hi H1. Yes both valves light up perfectly and they are flush with adapter. My first thought was pos adapter was configured differently. I have no issue with top adapter not reaching ok. Thanks for help.
Also if I replace either EL39 with EL38 the side with 38 produces sound all be it very quiet the 39 side no sound.


----------



## connieflyer

Looks good erwan, I have to agree with you on the 5998, just like most tubes oh, they do require a lengthy burning. You really have to let these tubes settle in until they reach their better potential. Mine were NOS and they took a good while before they sounded at the top of their game. But definitely worth waiting for. Good luck with the e l 39 will probably have mine by next week, should be very interesting


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. Yes both valves light up perfectly and they are flush with adapter. My first thought was pos adapter was configured differently. I have no issue with top adapter not reaching ok. Thanks for help.
> Also if I replace either EL39 with EL38 the side with 38 produces sound all be it very quiet the 39 side no sound.



This is very strange indeed..also with your anode wire seeming OK lol, compared to @ZRW0 . Am going to email Mrsx with details of my own config'n and ask why their own adapters aren't working as mine do...


----------



## ZRW0

Waiting for @hypnos1 's experiments, I switched back to one of my all time favorites,  I didn't use for long: namely KenRad VT99 and TS 5998 CrhomeTops. (@DecentLevi how could you not love those ones ?  )

 
(here used as preamp of my SS Speaker amplifier)


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> This is very strange indeed..also with your anode wire seeming OK lol, compared to @ZRW0 . Am going to email Mrsx with details of my own config'n and ask why their own adapters aren't working as mine do...


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


>



*IMPORTANT NOTICE Re. EL39 ADAPTERS*

OK guys...I feel real bad/disappointed that your EL38 adapters are not acting like my own, so rather than rely on PCB-based adapters from China, these EL39s deserve much better. And so I'm happy to make them for folks, using OCC silver and copper wires. I will also make them such that both the EL39 *and* the EL38 work in the same adapter. I estimate the cost will be about £12 per adapter, plus shipping. But, of course, there'll be a delay while I wait for the parts.

So anyone interested in my proposal, please let me know.


----------



## Scutey (Jun 14, 2019)

ZRW0 said:


> Waiting for @hypnos1 's experiments, I switched back to one of my all time favorites,  I didn't use for long: namely KenRad VT99 and TS 5998 CrhomeTops. (@DecentLevi how could you not love those ones ?  )
> 
> (here used as preamp of my SS Speaker amplifier)


I'm definitely a fan of the 5998, it pairs really well with so many 6sn7 type in my experience, like you ZRW0, love KR VT99, also RCA/SylvaniaVT231, Psvane CV181-T2, as well as EL type tubes.


----------



## OctavianH

I put my noob hat and ask what are the construction differences between 5998 and 421A? I have to admit I think they look almost the same. How can I differentiate them?


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Hi CF, DL,
> 
> Yes I agree with you CF, 5998 Chrome-tops are great tubes as well.
> 
> ...





ZRW0 said:


> Hi CF, DL,
> 
> Yes I agree with you CF, 5998 Chrome-tops are great tubes as well.
> 
> ...


Hi ZRW0,
"one of my 421A has started to cough a bit when hot".
I have had good luck restoring tubes that start to make loud popping noises by heating each pin with a 40W soldering iron for 30 seconds each. Just hold the tube vertically so that if something melts it will not flow into the tube (but really no such problems heating for 30 sec).


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I put my noob hat and ask what are the construction differences between 5998 and 421A? I have to admit I think they look almost the same. How can I differentiate them?


There is a big debate if the 421A tubes are just the same as the 5998 but picked for higher conductance. Or maybe a special production run with a little different specs.
Some say that the clear top 5998 sound the same as the WE 421A.
One thing is sure, you can differentiate them by the price LOL!


----------



## hypnos1

*Parts ordered for EL39/EL38 adapters*...hope to make a start on them within the coming week...CJ


----------



## myphone

mordy said:


> There is a big debate if the 421A tubes are just the same as the 5998 but picked for higher conductance. Or maybe a special production run with a little different specs.
> Some say that the clear top 5998 sound the same as the WE 421A.
> One thing is sure, you can differentiate them by the price LOL!





Some of the 421a and 5998 I have: from left 421a (1962), clear top 5998 (1958), chrome top 5998 (1957) and chrome top 5998 (1963). 

421a and clear top 5998 are button getters (o-getter later 421a, > 1970's); chrome top are top getters.

Interestingly, the above 1957 and 1963 5998 have somewhat different structure (under the Domino plates).


----------



## OctavianH

myphone said:


> Some of the 421a and 5998 I have: from left 421a (1962), clear top 5998 (1958), chrome top 5998 (1957) and chrome top 5998 (1963).
> 
> 421a and clear top 5998 are button getters (o-getter later 421a, > 1970's); chrome top are top getters.
> 
> Interestingly, the above 1957 and 1963 5998 have somewhat different structure (under the Domino plates).



Many thanks @myphone for the visual comparation. I have a pair of the chrome tops from 11.55.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. Yes both valves light up perfectly and they are flush with adapter. My first thought was pos adapter was configured differently. I have no issue with top adapter not reaching ok. Thanks for help.
> *Also if I replace either EL39 with EL38 the side with 38 produces sound all be it very quiet the 39 side no sound*.



Hi again bt.

Have tested an EL38 in my own EL38 adapter *with* EL39 mod wire in place and it works perfectly. So at least I now know for sure that the adapters I will be making shall indeed be perfect for *both* tubes lol! 
I simply cannot understand why the mod doesn't work in those Chinese adapters as it does in mine - it _should_ do...and I'm not very impressed about that in fact...nor happy! Goodness knows what they've done in their design...
I'm so sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused folks...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jun 14, 2019)

I had a problem with one of mrs. X adapters, and she did replace it for me. That was when she first switched over to the little PC boards in the adapters. Since that time I have not bought any more adapters from her. You would think that in order for that tube to function properly the leaves would have to be the same as they are in your adapter. I think at this point I would undo the wire, and redo it very carefully and making sure that contact is being made on both ends and the tube does not sit above the base of the adapter. There should be no reason electrically that if it works in yours it should work in mrs. X adapter., that is what I would do at this point


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> *IMPORTANT NOTICE Re. EL39 ADAPTERS*
> 
> OK guys...I feel real bad/disappointed that your EL38 adapters are not acting like my own, so rather than rely on PCB-based adapters from China, these EL39s deserve much better. And so I'm happy to make them for folks, using OCC silver and copper wires. I will also make them such that both the EL39 *and* the EL38 work in the same adapter. I estimate the cost will be about £12 per adapter, plus shipping. But, of course, there'll be a delay while I wait for the parts.
> 
> So anyone interested in my proposal, please let me know.



I'm in for two thanks H1.


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## myphone (Jun 15, 2019)

It is interesting to read you guys El tube adventure. I briefly tried EL11/EL12sp.

My favorite combo remains RCA 12SX7 (with external 12 volt heater)/WE 421a with HD 800.

12SX7 is incredibly quiet, clear and slightly sweet.

GEC 6AS7 works well with HD 800 on small scale music (chamber music). Was it due to output impedance match?

6AS7/6080 tubes drive T1 and HD 600 much easier.

I assume Euforia has output impedance of 60 ohms with 6AS7/6080 tubes, and around 30 ohms with 421a tubes.


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## DecentLevi (Jun 14, 2019)

RE TS 5998 chrome tops. Mine is a mint condition pair so maybe it wasn't burned in enough, but alas I have enough other better performing tubes so will just hold onto them for a possible better future pairing with a new amp. For me, no matter which drivers paired with they sounded a but bass anemic (slightly void), and bit too 'sweet' in tone having a modestly off pitch timbre. It is a very capable sound with good resolution, but just not my sonic signature which is more neutral than euphonic.

I used to own a good pair of W.E. 421A's and oddly the sound I got was quite bass anemic and even overtly dynamic, giving a fairly thin and fast presentation. Though that was back in my Elise days and I re-sold it before trying it with the Euforia.

These days I'm actually coming to appreciate the prowess of the GEC 6AS7G / CV2523 as I've found a magnificent pairing with other powers (2x GEC + 2x Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys" + 2x EL38 as powers with my externally powered strip, + EL38 drivers). It's basically 4X EL38 + another pair of Bad Boys and a pair of GECs as powers. Taking the coherent liquid extended and semi-sweet tone of the EL38 + the wide FR and heartstopping dynamics and realism of the Bad Boys + fused with the uncanny realism of the GEC 6AS7G, you get a package that is amazingly refined with almost unfinite soundstage and realism, and finally 'correcting' the nuance dynamics issue of the GEC's thanks to the help of the other tubes injecting their magic into the mix for an aplomb result with this unique pairing. One of the best, but will compare it to the 6x EL32 + 2x EL38 later.

(PS - I also tried the 6BL7 in the mix as powers but somehow the 6SN7 paired better with the specific mix).


----------



## connieflyer

Yes the TS 5998 need a lot of burn in, but once there there are very good, if bass light try the KR VT231's they really but the bass back in.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 15, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1. This is how I have wired EL39's and I'm not getting any sound in the headphones. Is the above correct and is their anything else I should have done?





ZRW0 said:


> Just received mine, and same issue here.
> Also the EL38 adapters from Mrs X have their anode wires a bit too short for the EL39's height... and I really don't like pulling on those wires, and see them tighten and pulling on the anodes of the tubes...
> Is the H1 trick working on Mrs X's adapters ?


HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?!
IMPERFECTION?!
ARREST THAT MAN! 

Naah, well it's good to see a little humanity sometime, LOL as we are all human and several of us have had minor 'faux pas' commutability issues with F-A amps. This is also a testament to the quality of Feliks Audio amps that they were able to withstand this occasional experimentation occasionally thrown at them. And VERY WELL done H1 of being able to offer such a supreme quality adapter at such an affordable price, that not only works with EL38 but EL39 as well. Let's just not give him too many to work on too fast.



ZRW0 said:


> Waiting for @hypnos1 's experiments, I switched back to one of my all time favorites,  I didn't use for long: namely KenRad VT99 and TS 5998 CrhomeTops. (@DecentLevi how could you not love those ones ?  )
> 
> (here used as preamp of my SS Speaker amplifier)


Which drivers are you using? The VT-99 are actually the metal black straight tubes, AKA 6N7

Edit: I was confusing VT-99 which I haven't tried, with VT-96


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> *IMPORTANT NOTICE Re. EL39 ADAPTERS*
> 
> OK guys...I feel real bad/disappointed that your EL38 adapters are not acting like my own, so rather than rely on PCB-based adapters from China, these EL39s deserve much better. And so I'm happy to make them for folks, using OCC silver and copper wires. I will also make them such that both the EL39 *and* the EL38 work in the same adapter. I estimate the cost will be about £12 per adapter, plus shipping. But, of course, there'll be a delay while I wait for the parts.
> 
> So anyone interested in my proposal, please let me know.


Hi H1,

I'd like 2 for me too.

Great thanks again H1 !

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi again guys....*.............FURTHER UPDATE ON THE EL39 ADAPTERS..................
*
While doing extensive checks on my own configuration for EL39 adapters, I have discovered what might hint at the Chinese EL38 adapters not behaving like mine with the wire mod for the 39. 

The one difference in pin layout between the 38 and 39 is that the 38's pin #1 is grid 3, which has to be linked with the cathode (pin 8)... but is pin #6 in the 39. Trouble is, pin #1 in the 39 is used for the metal wire that wraps around the tube's glass at the base (this wire, and the metallic silver paint of the band act as grounding when connected to ground in the amp). 

In short, putting the 39 in the 38 adapter results in the cathode being linked to said wire. In my own adapter, there's no obvious impact and it still works. Presumably, the Chinese adapters have routed something differently. Whatever, my advice is to _*not even try the wire mod in the EL38 adapter.
*_
Also, as a result of this finding, even though I could make an adapter that will take both the 38 and 39, in order to be extra careful with the 39 we would need to remove its pin #1. And as any undue stress on the tube can easily cause problems,_* it will be much safer to keep the adapter solely for the EL39*_. And so this is how I will in fact make them...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi

No problem at all, I already have 6 EL38 adapters and I'd like two super adapters just for EL39 please


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 16, 2019)

My 23 year old kid stoled my trusty (and great sounding) Audio Technica ATM50LE cans, to play with his new electronic drum kit  (dad’s gift for his university grade), because he did not like his “gamer” headphones at all, so I suggested : “try this” and the rest is history...

Now I need a new pair...the Empyreans, please ! a thing of beauty but far above my budget...I am not into long listening sessions with HPs, prefer a very neutral, accurate type of sound,...an HP that works nicely amplified by Euforia.  My previous experiences have been with electrostatics and closed back dynamics.  Thinking on some open back dynamic or planar magnetics around the $ 500 range... currently watching the Beyers 1990 pro, Senn 660S, Hifiman Sundaras (maybe out because of reliability issues)...any suggestions ??


----------



## ZRW0

Johnnysound said:


> My 23 year old kid stoled my trusty (and great sounding) Audio Technica ATM50LE cans, to play with his new electronic drum kit  (dad’s gift for his university grade), because he did not like his “gamer” headphones at all, so I suggested : “try this” and the rest is history...
> 
> Now I need a new pair...the Empyreans, please ! a thing of beauty but far above my budget...I am not into long listening sessions with HPs, prefer a very neutral, accurate type of sound,...an HP that works nicely amplified by Euforia.  My previous experiences have been with electrostatics and closed back dynamics.  Thinking on some open back dynamic or planar magnetics around the $ 500 range... currently watching the Beyers 1990 pro, Senn 660S, Hifiman Sundaras (maybe out because of reliability issues)...any suggestions ??


Hi JS,

I know it's closed back, but below the 500 price tag, what about a brand new Meze 99 Classics ?
Otherwise, to remain in the open back dynamic, but with a totally different sound signature, and still in a 500$/€ range, what about a used HD800 ? (At worst you should only have to replace the foams).

My two cents,

Erwan


----------



## ZRW0

mordy said:


> Hi ZRW0,
> "one of my 421A has started to cough a bit when hot".
> I have had good luck restoring tubes that start to make loud popping noises by heating each pin with a 40W soldering iron for 30 seconds each. Just hold the tube vertically so that if something melts it will not flow into the tube (but really no such problems heating for 30 sec).


Thanks Mordy,
Although soldering irons and I aren't best friends, I'll give a try.
Cheers,
Erwan.


----------



## OctavianH

Johnnysound said:


> My 23 year old kid stoled my trusty (and great sounding) Audio Technica ATM50LE cans, to play with his new electronic drum kit  (dad’s gift for his university grade), because he did not like his “gamer” headphones at all, so I suggested : “try this” and the rest is history...
> 
> Now I need a new pair...the Empyreans, please ! a thing of beauty but far above my budget...I am not into long listening sessions with HPs, prefer a very neutral, accurate type of sound,...an HP that works nicely amplified by Euforia.  My previous experiences have been with electrostatics and closed back dynamics.  Thinking on some open back dynamic or planar magnetics around the $ 500 range... currently watching the Beyers 1990 pro, Senn 660S, Hifiman Sundaras (maybe out because of reliability issues)...any suggestions ??



Since Beyerdynamic reduced the price of T1 to 760 EUR on the official website I've seen a lot of B-Stock (re-sealed) around 500-570 EUR on different websites and used ones around 400 EUR on ebay. One example I was looking myself into was:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beyerdynamic-T1-2nd-Gen-Headphones-Excellent-condition/123794459923


----------



## DecentLevi

@Johnnysound the HD-579 is basically a non-risk and a sure winner at an amazing price! I would love to see how it pairs with the Euforia.


DecentLevi said:


> Don't have much time, getting ready for the next country tomorrow Bangladesh. On the top of my head I was most impressed with the Senn. HD-380 (huge closed-back), but the recent standout was the Senn. HD-579 which is an open back that both have very different sound signatures. The 380 has that nice semi-dark / thumpy sound with non-fatiguing highs that seems to be ideal for electronic music, and the HD-579 has a sound that I would describe as vivid and robust. Bass that screams "quality" and remarkably straddles the fine line between being underdone on the 600's and bloomy on the 650's, and vastly more detailed than the new 660S, not only in bass but detail galore, without being overdone as well. For me it's a definite compliment to any HD-600 or 650 in a very refreshing way. And the best part it *costs only about 1/3rd* of the 600's, perhaps because of the plastic headband but for me it seems quite solid! I've also tried others like HD-559, 569, 598, 599, etc. and maybe it's a bit closer to 598 but bests anything below the 800 IMO, yet is still better for bass. And it's only 50 vs. 300 ohm so provides a nice change of performance.
> 
> 
> For IEMs, I was blown away by the super cheap TFZ Exlcusive 1, which pair well with all DAPs I tried it with and the Euforia too.





DecentLevi said:


> I used a Sony solid state amp (the only one they had), and my Onkyo DPX1A DAP. Same sound signature out of both amps, and I liked it better for the bass definition and organic / lifelike sound. The soundstage was at least 90% of the HD-600 but not quite as large as the Clear. I always found the Clear to be like the HD-600 tonality wise but with slightly different signature.
> 
> Disclaimer: I can only speculate if the HD 579 pairs well Elise or Euforia. Also to not detail this thread too much, there are some reviews in other places too.


----------



## mordy

ZRW0 said:


> Thanks Mordy,
> Although soldering irons and I aren't best friends, I'll give a try.
> Cheers,
> Erwan.


I don’t know how to solder properly , but touching the tube pins with the tip of the soldering iron I can do.


----------



## Tunkejazz

While waiting for the Swedish toll authorities to process my EL38 adapters, I have been playing with some old tubes that were collecting dust in a drawer.
After trying different combinations of power tubes (Bendix 6080WB, GEC 6080, Tung-Sol 6AS7G, Tung-Sol 6080) with drivers (Sylvania 6SN7 bad-boys, Ken-Rad 6SN7GT, Sylvania 6SN7W, Raytheon 6SN7), I found a combo that is particularly good at providing clarity to the sound, without sacrificing anything in the lower end.

Surprisingly the cheap-ass Tung-Sol 6080 together with those Sylvania  Bad-Boys from 1952 are the best combo that I ever tried with my Euforia/HD800/my ears


----------



## mordy

Hi Tunkejazz,
It's all about synergy and what you like. It is nice feeling when you find what you like, especially if the tubes aren't expensive!
Another forum member told me that his favorite tubes in the FA amp is a pair of 12SX7GT (requires 12V external power) and a pair of WE 421A tubes....
Personally, I found what I liked with a pair of 6H8C Foton 1953 ribbed anode tubes and a pair of GEC 6080 tubes.
Lycka till!


----------



## Tunkejazz

mordy said:


> Hi Tunkejazz,
> It's all about synergy and what you like. It is nice feeling when you find what you like, especially if the tubes aren't expensive!
> Another forum member told me that his favorite tubes in the FA amp is a pair of 12SX7GT (requires 12V external power) and a pair of WE 421A tubes....
> Personally, I found what I liked with a pair of 6H8C Foton 1953 ribbed anode tubes and a pair of GEC 6080 tubes.
> Lycka till!



Tack så mycket! 

Totally agree about the synergy factor. 
I have some of those Foton tubes, they are very transparent too!!


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 16, 2019)

Hi @OctavianH, @ZRW0, @DecentLevi and many thanks for the advice !  The used T1s (gen 2) on auction ended at about $ 530, and the HD800 that I could find are no less than $ 700 used...at the other end of the price range, the Senn HD 579 can be found “open box” for less than $ 100 !!.  Hey DL, are they at least close to the new “audiophile” HD660 ?? If so, this looks like a super bargain !!


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 16, 2019)

Hi @Johnnysound I say go for it! You can't go wrong with the HD-579's for that price, because if for some weird reason there's no synergy, you can just re-sell them. I found teh HD-579's to be a refreshing departure from the Sennheiser house sound which was interesting because it looks so similar to the likes of HD-600 & 650; soundiong somewhat more front-row and very pleasing dynamics and mids presentation. And I put it back to back with the HD-660S of multiple amps and _IMO_ it was vastly better sounding (more clear and better transient response, just a cheaper headband).

I would be interested to hear how it pairs with your amp.


----------



## Johnnysound

DecentLevi said:


> Hi @Johnnysound I say go for it! You can't go wrong with the HD-579's for that price, because if for some weird reason there's no synergy, you can just re-sell them. I found teh HD-579's to be a refreshing departure from the Sennheiser house sound which was interesting because it looks so similar to the likes of HD-600 & 650; soundiong somewhat more front-row and very pleasing dynamics and mids presentation. And I put it back to back with the HD-660S of multiple amps and _IMO_ it was vastly better sounding (more clear and better transient response, just a cheaper headband).
> 
> I would be interested to hear how it pairs with your amp.



I offered the enormous sum of $ 80 for an “open box” lighthly used HD 579...


----------



## DecentLevi

Great Johnny, this should be interesting. Do you have the Euforia or Elise? If it pairs well with the Euforia (I haven't tried the pairing), you just may convince ME to get a pair too, LOL. Or if HD-579 doesn't work for you and your 7N7 recommendation doesn't work our for me, let's just say we're even  HAHa


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 17, 2019)

Lansdale JAN-CBR 7N7 “frankentubes” (LOL).  This is how they call them at the Schiit Lyr blog, because of their “flat head” as opposed to the more rounded one in most 7N7s...some guys there swear that the “frankens” are the  best sounding 7N7s.  I checked my lot of a dozen tubes or so and, oh surprise, I found  no less than three real frankens !!

My  Sylvanias “U.S. Navy” sound excellent paired with the EL38s, so I immediately rolled in the “flat heads”...and  was _really_  impressed with the results. The overall sound signature of both 7N7s was similar: very natural, relaxed, open, utterly quiet yet dynamic, an extremely pleasant sounding tube, but the “frankens” showed perhaps a bit more detail, and were slightly livelier than the Sylvanias, in turn more “classic” and darker sounding.  With both tubes the soundstage was splendid, but the slight “sparkle” of the Lansdales added something to the magic...

To sum up, absolutely great drivers for the EL38s, that can be found (with patience) at very low prices...


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Lansdale JAN-CBR 7N7 “frankentubes” (LOL).  This is how they call them at the Schiit Lyr blog, because of their “flat head” as opposed to the more rounded one in most 7N7s...some guys there swear that the “frankens” are the  best sounding 7N7s of them all.  I checked my lot of a dozen tubes or so and, oh surprise, I found  no less than three real frankens !!
> 
> My  Sylvanias “U.S. Navy” sound excellent paired with the EL38s, so I immediately rolled in the “flat heads”...and  was _really_  impressed with the results. The overall sound signature of both 7N7s was similar: very natural, relaxed, open, utterly quiet yet dynamic, an extremely pleasant sounding tube, but the “frankens” showed perhaps a bit more detail, and were slightly livelier than the Sylvanias, in turn more “classic” and darker sounding.  With both tubes the soundstage was splendid, but the slight “sparkle” of the Lansdales added something to the magic...
> 
> To sum up, absolutely great drivers for the EL38s, that can be found (with patience) at very low prices...


The trick is to learn how to identify these Franken tubes and look for rebranded ones. All 7N7 tubes (with the exception of National Union - rare) were made by Sylvania. Some time ago I bought a used pair rebranded as GE for less than $12 incl shipping:




As a rule I have found rebranded tubes to be less expensive than the name brand, unless the seller is knowledgeable and knows what it is.
A number of times I discovered rebranded tubes by unknown names by typing in the tube designation on eBay and just scrolling down and looking at the listings and identifying the tube.


----------



## Scutey

Phew, my EL39's finally arrived today, I can finally join the Queue, for two of your adapters h1, if that is ok with you! .


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I received the tubes I purchased from CJ, today, and I must say money well spent. As you might know, I am a big fan of the EL38's and El11's.  I had one Valvo mesh plate El 11 and a stock Valvo El 11 and the sound was really great.  One of the tubes I purchased from CJ, was a mesh plate Valvo El11, so tried this in original set up. It sounded superior right off the bat. Mid's and HIghs were now more  articulate, defined and solid, no distortion, no noise or any thing but glorius sound. Then swapped the two Dario El 38 that CJ had converted for me, with the El 11 Mesh plate Valvo's, another nice increase in sound.  This increased the bass slam, quantity, without any sign of distortion or struggle. Listened to Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love, and had my feet taping like crazy.  Twenty years younger, I would have been up on my feet rocking out! Listened to Enya, Allison Krauss, Loreena McKennit and immediately sent out emails asking them to marry me!  What voices!  Articulation was so clear, will probably be up all night checking out the rest of my music.  Do not have adapters for the two EL 39's yet, so nothing to report on those, also purchased a Phillips Mini Watt fat tube El 38  and want to pair this soon, but for now don't want to change anything. Music source is directly off NAS, to Schitt Multibit Gungnir to Euforia.  No processing, no filters, no additions to music.  Will try off pc next with JRiver 24, running Sonarworks 4 sytemwide eq for Sennheiser 800 and see what that sounds like.  Also checked on a pair of Empy phones but presently out of stock.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 17, 2019)

In just 5 days I might be able to meet the folks behind Feliks Audio. I have my tickets, flight and room booked for SoCal CanJam this weekend and plan to spend as much as possible of the full 16 hours on both days auditioning selected gear. Not only am I looking forward to what new models may / may not be at the F-A table and saying hello, but this is one for the books with a lot of brand new headphone technology on display, such as the *RAAL-requisite SR1a* which is said to be somewhere beyond the champion Stax SR-009 which is only bested by the Orpheus. The so-called Orpheus II will be there too (Sennheiser HE-1) but I already heard it before. Check out this link from the most recent CanJam from Singapore just a few months ago, for a general idea of what will be there:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/canjam-singapore-2019-impressions-thread.903505/page-7#post-14874545


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## teknorob23




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## connieflyer (Jun 18, 2019)

I have about 12 hours on the Valvo El 11 Mesh Plates, drivers, and one Dario El38 and one baloon bottle EL38 and the combination is some of the best I heard.  When I get the adapters for my El 39's should be very interesting to see if they will beat this setup. The baloon bottle El 38 adds just the right touch of bass and warmth, without any distortion. The pair of El 11 mesh plates are some of the best drivers I have heard on this amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

Philips + DARIO EL39! I've struck gold and need a holiday!


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 19, 2019)

Folks, I know this is on the front page here but I HIGHLY recommend watching this video, at least the first half. Jude, the HF owner takes us through a nice journey of recent breakthroughs in the personal hi-fi audio world, including some a few of you have recently owned as well.


PS -  I've been a little curious does the F-A Facebook group follow our thread at all?


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 19, 2019)

Hi guys.

First off - and most importantly - _*DO NOT TRY MY EL39 WIRE MOD ON THE EL38 ADAPTER!!!
*_
@connieflyer has sent me the Chinese EL38 adapter's pin layout, and no wonder the mod doesn't work...they obviously ignored my specific instruction for pin layout and for some crazy reason linked 38's pin#6 (which isn't actually even used in the 38 tube) to final pin #5...*an anode!!* ...unbelievable! And so when the 39's pin#6 (grid 3) is linked, as per the mod, it joins the anode rather than the _cathode_....I am *not* amused/impressed!!

Am so glad it doesn't appear to have caused any damage to your equipment @barontan2418 and @ZRW0 or anyone else who may have tried the mod.
I can assure you all that there'll be _*no*_ such nonsense with the adapters that I shall be making!!  ...speaking of which, I had hoped to be making a start on them today, but thanks to UPS's so-called '1 business day' for their (expensive!) 'Worldwide Express Service' from the US, I'm still waiting for the parts lol!!  Hopefully they'll arrive later on today...they'd _better!!_..CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Yes, sometimes that extra speedy service is not what it is supposed to be.  But at least that will give you more time to get outside and get back to work on the garden!


----------



## myphone

connieflyer said:


> Well, I received the tubes I purchased from CJ, today, and I must say money well spent. As you might know, I am a big fan of the EL38's and El11's.  I had one Valvo mesh plate El 11 and a stock Valvo El 11 and the sound was really great.  One of the tubes I purchased from CJ, was a mesh plate Valvo El11, so tried this in original set up. It sounded superior right off the bat. Mid's and HIghs were now more  articulate, defined and solid, no distortion, no noise or any thing but glorius sound. Then swapped the two Dario El 38 that CJ had converted for me, with the El 11 Mesh plate Valvo's, another nice increase in sound.  This increased the bass slam, quantity, without any sign of distortion or struggle. Listened to Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love, and had my feet taping like crazy.  Twenty years younger, I would have been up on my feet rocking out! Listened to Enya, Allison Krauss, Loreena McKennit and immediately sent out emails asking them to marry me!  What voices!  Articulation was so clear, will probably be up all night checking out the rest of my music.  Do not have adapters for the two EL 39's yet, so nothing to report on those, also purchased a Phillips Mini Watt fat tube El 38  and want to pair this soon, but for now don't want to change anything. Music source is directly off NAS, to Schitt Multibit Gungnir to Euforia.  No processing, no filters, no additions to music.  Will try off pc next with JRiver 24, running Sonarworks 4 sytemwide eq for Sennheiser 800 and see what that sounds like.  Also checked on a pair of Empy phones but presently out of stock.



CF, could you show some pictures of internal structure of El 11 Mesh plate Valvo's?

I have several Valvo EL11s that have different internal structures. 

Curious to know what MESH plate looks like.

Thanks


----------



## connieflyer

Cj might have a pic or two, the very dark coating makes it hard to get a good look inside, I will see what I can do though.  I also have a pair of nos Valvo El 11 and they are not in the same ball game.  These have a clarity and detail like none I have tried before.


----------



## connieflyer

myphone, sorry for the delay, had to wait till I got through listening and they cooled off. This is about as good as I could get, as you can see the plates are not solid but fine mesh.  You can just make them out looking through the clear portion at the top of the tube.


----------



## myphone

Thank you, CF. 

See the MESH. Mine are different.


----------



## myphone

All Valvos.


----------



## myphone

Also have Mullard and Miniwatt EL11. Have not tried in amp yet.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> myphone, sorry for the delay, had to wait till I got through listening and they cooled off. This is about as good as I could get, as you can see the plates are not solid but fine mesh.  You can just make them out looking through the clear portion at the top of the tube.



Hi cf...you're working well - first the pin layout of those darned Chinese EL38 adapters, and now a clear shot of those mesh plates (difficult to see, let alone photogaph lol!). WELL DONE, and thanks, on both counts....

And as you say, these mesh plate Valvo EL11s (along with the similarly plated Australian Philips EL3N*G*) are indeed a different animal to the standard _solid_ plate EL11. It's a tragic shame that they are nigh on impossible to find now...I even bought several black glass Valvos with similar numbering that looked absolutely identical, but didn't have the expected/hoped for mesh plate. They must have been a very limited run indeed...*why?!!!* . But glad I managed to find my last spare to at least partner your first... and am so sorry I can't help anyone else to savour their magic (but will keep looking!! )....CJ


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> Also have Mullard and Miniwatt EL11. Have not tried in amp yet.



Hi myphone...they might not be _mesh_-plated, but those EL11s still look very nice lol!  And I'm sure that they will - as with all EL11s - drive the EL38 perfectly...and the EL39 even _better!!_ ...CJ


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> myphone, sorry for the delay, had to wait till I got through listening and they cooled off. This is about as good as I could get, as you can see the plates are not solid but fine mesh.  You can just make them out looking through the clear portion at the top of the tube.


Hope that I am not saying the wrong thing, but this mesh plate looks to me like a perforated plate. I recall seeing true mesh plates that were made out of woven metal strands (similar to fabric).
I was under the impression that true mesh plates are the real thing. They were used in early tube production but later less expensive alternatives were found.
To me this tube looks like real mesh:




And here is a perforated mesh type:


----------



## myphone

Thanks CJ and CF,

Will keep eyes on these EL38/39.

I am rolling in 6SN7/12SN7, and 6080/6AS7/5998/421a. 

So many choices and combos.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 19, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hope that I am not saying the wrong thing, but this mesh plate looks to me like a perforated plate. I recall seeing true mesh plates that were made out of woven metal strands (similar to fabric).
> I was under the impression that true mesh plates are the real thing. They were used in early tube production but later less expensive alternatives were found.
> To me this tube looks like real mesh:
> 
> ...



Hi @mordy

Thanks for your photos. Actually, those plates look much more like _they've_ been _stamped_, rather than true _woven_ mesh. Stamped plates have a much more uniform look as per those you showed. I must admit that from @connieflyer 's photos, they could be mistaken for stamped (very difficult to get precise image of them), but on close inspection of the 'real thing' with a magnifying glass, one can see the less-than-totally-perfect 'weave' of the individual metal strands (plus their shape), especially at the top and sides, as opposed to a single piece of uniform metal that has undergone stamping. I do in fact have 2x 'mesh' plate EL3Ns (not the EL3N*G*)...one is true mesh, like my and cf's Valvo EL11s, but the other looks quite different - the much more _uniform_ appearance of a stamped one. Hope this gives a few more pointers lol...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Yes, sometimes that extra speedy service is not what it is supposed to be.  But at least that will give you more time to get outside and get back to work on the garden!



Hi cf. 
After much heated to-and-froing with the UPS guys here in the UK, it looks like someone there dragged their heels in dealing with our Customs people...a prime case of 'buck passing'! If I hadn't got in touch with them directly today - and with the help of a VP at 'Amplified Parts' (USA) - it looks like my adapter parts would have winged their merry way back to the US!...not a very happy chappie here...once more!! This project is ageing me fast, alas ...but have come to expect no less in this hobby of ours! 

So, hopefully they will in fact arrive tomorrow, and I can make a start on the adapters. Given that you @barontan2418 and @ZRW0 were the first to be so cruelly disappointed when you plugged in your EL39s, it's only fair that yours are first on the bench...hope others agree ...CJ

ps. The garden will just have to wait, mon ami!...


----------



## hypnos1

*


DecentLevi said:



			H1 (Colin) that obligatory step would be to superglue to top cap on just in case, right?
... reinforce it with superglue rather than attempting to nudge it first to glue underneath it.
		
Click to expand...

*


DecentLevi said:


> Also I realized the reason I was never overtly impressed with my Tung Sol 5998's may have been because mine have the silver top instead of clear top.



Hi DL. This might be a good point at which to remind folks of those _obligatory_ steps lol! 

But first a word of *WARNING*...do *NOT *attempt to 'nudge' or twist the top cap of _any_ tube. The wire inside is usually _extremely_ small, and the slightest corrosion will make it very fragile indeed...a couple of twists and it can break!! So yes, just apply some superglue around where its base meets the glass. And the same goes for the pin base/glass interface...again, try _not_ to move this base around, if at all loose.

After these _musts_, then clean the pins with fine emery paper 'til they're shiny and smooth. _If_ the corrosion should ever be more severe, than coarse emery paper can be used first, or a small knife (or back of...). But always finish with _fine_ emery to regain a nice, smooth surface. Sometimes a pin can _look_ clean and OK, but in fact not be making very good contact. I myself therefore _always_ make this an essential task before going anywhere near the amp. The same applies to the top cap..._once glue has been applied_.
Then all that's needed is to clean up the tube - pins and all - with something like White Spirit/Turps solution

And don't forget that if a lot of tube rolling has been done, there are bound to be deposits in the amp's sockets themselves. A (thin) cotton bud dipped in Isopropyl alcohol (or similar) should clean them out nicely!...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. So no excuse in getting these jobs done on your EL39s while waiting for adapters lol!


----------



## connieflyer

Hello CJ, sorry you had to go through all that with UPS, but I dealt with them for about 25 years and I know on more than one occasion they dropped the ball. I suppose that's only human but still, when you pay extra for a service you expect Extra Care in getting that service fulfilled. Looking forward to the adapters, although I cannot say that I am in any bad way, when I have the tubes that I have now. I listened again last night for about 3 hours and ended up taking the balloon dl38 out and running with a pair of Dario El 38. Either way those el11 mesh plates really have made a difference. Great doing business with you. So perhaps you should go to bed early tonight and rest up in preparation for the new supplies for the adapters!


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 19, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf...you're working well - first the pin layout of those darned Chinese EL38 adapters, and now a clear shot of those mesh plates (difficult to see, let alone photogaph lol!). WELL DONE, and thanks, on both counts....
> 
> 
> 
> And as you say, these mesh plate Valvo EL11s (along with the similarly plated Australian Philips EL3N*G*) are indeed a different animal to the standard _solid_ plate EL11. It's a tragic shame that they are nigh on impossible to find now...I even bought several black glass Valvos with similar numbering that looked absolutely identical, but didn't have the expected/hoped for mesh plate. They must have been a very limited run indeed...*why?!!!* . But glad I managed to find my last spare to at least partner your first... and am so sorry I can't help anyone else to savour their magic (but will keep looking!! )....CJ



One of my yet to be tried EL39's has perforated / mesh plate plus judging by the inverted trough getter is an old beast. Hope it lives up to those EL11's mentioned.


----------



## connieflyer

Can you post pictures? It would be interesting to see the difference.  Thanks


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 19, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Can you post pictures? It would be interesting to see the difference.  Thanks





connieflyer said:


> Can you post pictures? It would be interesting to see the difference.  Thanks



Sorry not a very good image and I dropped the dam valve whilst taking it. So fingers crossed it still works.


----------



## barontan2418

Trying out this old Cossor EL38 along side a regular Mullard and liking the results, so much do that I have ordered a second Cossor. Anybody come across this old UK tube?


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the pictures, very interesting. It looks like a pressed screen plate but the assembly is a just a little bit different. Hope it sounds as good as all the rest oh, good luck with that


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Trying out this old Cossor EL38 along side a regular Mullard and liking the results, so much do that I have ordered a second Cossor. Anybody come across this old UK tube?


Yes I picked up a pristine boxed NOS pair of those yellow label Cossor and they are excellent, bass is deep and luscious.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Sorry not a very good image and I dropped the dam valve whilst taking it. So fingers crossed it still works.


I've just checked my quad and one of mine with the RT label has a mesh plate, will take a pic tomorrow when it's daylight.


----------



## DecentLevi

Interesting revelations RE the slight mis-wiring of the EL38 adapters that still allows them to work on our amps. For me this necessitates the question if perhaps our adapters are performing somewhat below the optimal operating threshold; and if a redone or modded adapter could take us even closer to the 'true' sound of the EL38's. By mod I meant if there is any simple mod that can be done internally on Xuling's EL38 adapters; or if even necessary.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jun 20, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Sorry not a very good image and I dropped the dam valve whilst taking it. So fingers crossed it still works.



Well well...never knew the EL39 had such a plate...good one bt (and you too @Scutey !!) 

Sad news is that on magnification, I think @connieflyer 's right...stamped/perforated sheet, not _woven_ I'm afraid . But could well still have a slight edge over the solid plate...why else would they have been made lol?!! 

ps. Sure do hope your tube is OK after the fall, bt....


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting revelations RE the slight mis-wiring of the EL38 adapters that still allows them to work on our amps. For me this necessitates the question if perhaps our adapters are performing somewhat below the optimal operating threshold; and if a redone or modded adapter could take us even closer to the 'true' sound of the EL38's. By mod I meant if there is any simple mod that can be done internally on Xuling's EL38 adapters; or if even necessary.



From the look of their pin layout - thanks to @connieflyer - it's perfectly fine for the EL38...just no good for the 39 mod lol!!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Well well...never knew the EL39 had such a plate...good one bt (and you too @Scutey !!)
> 
> Sad news is that on magnification, I think @connieflyer 's right...stamped/perforated sheet, not _woven_ I'm afraid . But could well still have a slight edge over the solid plate...why else would they have been made lol?!!
> 
> ps. Sure do hope your tube is OK after the fall, bt....


Mine appears to be the same as bt's, although it's difficult to see properly, if a perforated plate has a slight edge over solid plate I'll happily take it! .


----------



## connieflyer

The problem that I see with the adapters coming out of China now is the fact that they don't do point-to-point wiring like they used to. They're using a small PC disc in that socket that they make the connections to that gives you more solder joints and while it may be easier for them to do the quality is just not there like the old adapters were. Of course that's my opinion you may have different and you're welcome to it but that's how I see it


----------



## Mh996

Hi everyone. Focal clear owner here. Does anyone here have experience using the Euforia with Focal’s lower impedance line? Feliks reports that Euforia will pair with anything above 32 Ohms. Is this true even for Dynamics? I’ve read a couple accounts of it pairing well with Stellia, which operates at 36 Ohms. This seems to conflict with Euforia being OTL. Does the tube selection matter here? Am I missing something to explain why this could pair well with Clear/Stellia? Thanks. Heard really great things about this amp and thinking of purchasing one if there won’t be conflict with my lower impedance dynamics.


----------



## connieflyer

I know that at least one of our primary members is using the Meze Empyrean phones and the are rated at impedance: 31 ohms and he is saying wonderful things about the combo.  I am looking at getting one myself. Should not be a problem with the Focal's.


----------



## Scutey

I'm sure there's an owner of the Massdrop Focal Elex who uses with either Euforia or Elise with very good results.


----------



## OctavianH

@teknorob23 @hypnos1 It might be possible to get for testing a pair of interconnects made of Neotech NEI-2002. I know that you both use Neotech NEI-2001 in your cables. Can you advise me if this one is a good choice? Thanks a lot.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23 @hypnos1 It might be possible to get for testing a pair of interconnects made of Neotech NEI-2002. I know that you both use Neotech NEI-2001 in your cables. Can you advise me if this one is a good choice? Thanks a lot.



I went with the nei1002, but it’s very similar to the nei2001 as they both use up-occ mono crystal silver and are the top of the line cable whereas the nei2002 is normal silver not UP-OCC and is considerably cheaper. I haven’t heard the normal silver and I’m sure it’s good, but will probably sound more like traditional silver cables whereas the up-occ is astonishingly good stuff, with a much fuller, tonally natural sound than I’ve heard from normal silver, almost copper-like but with all upsides silver, detail retrieval, seperation extension at both ends... in short it’s amazing, out performs my previously by some distance my briefly beloved tellurium q black ultra 2 rca at almost half the ticket price. Mind you if they’re available to demo why not try both.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, according to:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nei-2002-interconnect-cable.html
The price differs with 3 GBP.

Neotech NEI-1002 UP-OCC Silver Interconnect Cable - Price per 0.25m £26.58+vat+p&p
Neotech NEI-2001 UP-OCC Silver Interconnect Cable - Price per 0.25m £26.58+vat+p&p
Neotech NEI-2002 Pure Silver Interconnect Cable - Price per 0.25m £23.03+vat+p&p

Anyway thanks for hints.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> Well, according to:
> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nei-2002-interconnect-cable.html
> The price differs with 3 GBP.
> 
> ...



yes you're absolutely right, my heads full of so many different wire and prices since @hypnos1 got me hooked on the wanders of DIY, but i would say this makes the UPOCC even better value  One thing to note this stuff is really thick around 11mm so there are limited choices when it comes to plugs. ETI research Kryo were the only option i could find. Fortunately they are really good and incredibly they also fit the miserly rca ports on a Hugo2. Are you planning to build?


----------



## teknorob23

Mh996 said:


> Hi everyone. Focal clear owner here. Does anyone here have experience using the Euforia with Focal’s lower impedance line? Feliks reports that Euforia will pair with anything above 32 Ohms. Is this true even for Dynamics? I’ve read a couple accounts of it pairing well with Stellia, which operates at 36 Ohms. This seems to conflict with Euforia being OTL. Does the tube selection matter here? Am I missing something to explain why this could pair well with Clear/Stellia? Thanks. Heard really great things about this amp and thinking of purchasing one if there won’t be conflict with my lower impedance dynamics.



I'm using mine with stellia and before that Elegia which are even easier to drive and both match beautifully with the Euforia.  Before i bought the Stellia i must have listened to every CB and quite a few OB headphones all with varying impedances and i struggle to think of a pair that didnt sound better with the Euforia vs straight out of my Hugo2. Obviously i'd recommend hearing it for yourself, but i think you'll be very impressed with it even with stock tubes, from there the fun really begins in terms of tube rolling. I'm a relative newbie with the Euforia being my first foray away from solid state, but you've come to the right place if you want to learn about the best tube options and how to get the best out of the euforia, there's years of expert knowledge generously shared in this thread!


----------



## Madhyamika

Scutey said:


> I'm sure there's an owner of the Massdrop Focal Elex who uses with either Euforia or Elise with very good results.



I’m one of those folks! I love the combo of my Elex with my Elise with both stock tubes and more exotic ones as well. Elise also runs my 32 Ohm Meze 99 Classics very well, although I usually listen with the Elex. This amp definitely seems to defy the conventional wisdom that lower-impedance headphones can’t pair well with an OTL amp, at least in my experience. 

-Jay


----------



## Scutey

Madhyamika said:


> I’m one of those folks! I love the combo of my Elex with my Elise with both stock tubes and more exotic ones as well. Elise also runs my 32 Ohm Meze 99 Classics very well, although I usually listen with the Elex. This amp definitely seems to defy the conventional wisdom that lower-impedance headphones can’t pair well with an OTL amp, at least in my experience.
> 
> -Jay


That's good to hear, I didn't think my memory was playing tricks on me!


----------



## Madhyamika

Scutey said:


> That's good to hear, I didn't think my memory was playing tricks on me!



No tricks - Your memory was right on! I’ve just been lurking quietly for the last few months trying to keep up with life whilst also reading about all the EL39 adventures and stuff. I’m still alternating quad EL38s vs 38s as powers and EL11s as drivers. Both setups (and stock tubes too, to a slightly lesser degree) are superb to my ears with Elise plus my Focal/Massdrop Elex.


----------



## OctavianH (Jun 21, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> yes you're absolutely right, my heads full of so many different wire and prices since @hypnos1 got me hooked on the wanders of DIY, but i would say this makes the UPOCC even better value  One thing to note this stuff is really thick around 11mm so there are limited choices when it comes to plugs. ETI research Kryo were the only option i could find. Fortunately they are really good and incredibly they also fit the miserly rca ports on a Hugo2. Are you planning to build?



I am not sure if I will start to make cables myself because I know a guy who makes them at a decent price. But I gather information to understand what I need. I already bought from him a DH Labs Air Matrix which is incredibly flexible and sounds very good for my ears, but he offered to let me try also a Neotech NEI-2002. The connectors he uses are also ETI (Nexus or Silver Link for RCA) and I quite like them. The problem with this Air Matrix is that I have too much bass on Elise, but here my taste differs than the rest of the forum. For the SS amps this cable is heaven.
If the pure silver cables have only the fault that the bass is less than many expect they will be for sure my end game.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I am not sure if I will start to make cables myself because I know a guy who makes them at a decent price. But I gather information to understand what I need. I already bought from him a DH Labs Air Matrix which is incredibly flexible and sounds very good for my ears, but he offered to let me try also a Neotech NEI-2002. The connectors he uses are also ETI (Nexus or Silver Link for RCA) and I quite like them. The problem with this Air Matrix is that I have too much bass on Elise, but here my taste differs than the rest of the forum. For the SS amps this cable is heaven.
> If the pure silver cables have only the fault that the bass is less than many expect they will be for sure my end game.



Sounds good and cable DIY is definitely very satisfying but highly addictive. On the UPOCC silver has fantastic bass, but beautifully controlled, textured and layered.. you might think at times, that its copper. As i say ive not tried Neotech's pure silver, but i have tried other high end pure silver interconnects and found them a little cold sounding, a bit then at the low end and borderline sibilant at the top. That said the detail retrieval has always been very impressive and if matched with other components well can sound really good. But i'm not sure i'd go anywhere else now i've heard the UP-OCC silver, as i get the best everything. Look forward to hearing what you think of them


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I am not sure if I will start to make cables myself because I know a guy who makes them at a decent price. But I gather information to understand what I need. I already bought from him a DH Labs Air Matrix which is incredibly flexible and sounds very good for my ears, but he offered to let me try also a Neotech NEI-2002. The connectors he uses are also ETI (Nexus or Silver Link for RCA) and I quite like them. The problem with this Air Matrix is that I have too much bass on Elise, but here my taste differs than the rest of the forum. For the SS amps this cable is heaven.
> If the pure silver cables have only the fault that the bass is less than many expect they will be for sure my end game.



Hi OH.

I personally would go for cable that uses _*OCC*_ silver wire every time over 'ordinary' pure silver. After years of loving the latter, I myself could never go back to it after experiencing the OCC type. So I highly recommend you ask that guy to make you up some cables using the NEI *2001* (XLR)...you get much more silver - *and* multiple gauges - for the same money. So a far better deal, and a no-brainer IMHO!! ...GOOD LUCK...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

YIPPEE guys...

First the good news...my adapter parts arrived from the US yesterday.
Now the bad news...the dreaded Customs guys stung me big time. And to add insult to injury, UPS added on their own handling (now called 'brokerage') charge...what a rip-off!! (But ParcelForce here do the same thing alas ). Further insult of course came from said Customs intervention totally negating the so-called UPS "Express" service (at much greater cost...*never again!!*). 

And so I'm afraid I will have to add an extra £2 to the cost of an adapter, so I at least cover the cost of materials...making them £14 each...sorry!

Anyway, for more cheery news - especially for you @barontan2418 , as promised - I completed my first set of adapters today ...(and now, hopefully, the rest will get easier/quicker as time goes by lol!! ...just 14 more to go!  ).

So here's a photo of the finished articles...with these I experimented with painting them a more matching black. I myself prefer this look, but I shall leave them 'virgin' from now on...time restraints lol! If you like the look, I used hobbyist black enamel paint. But nothing really sticks well to teflon tube, and hard rubbing will remove it...just a pointer!...


   CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

Would self-fusing hi temp silicone tape work as a covering? Or hi temp heat wrap?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Would self-fusing hi temp silicone tape work as a covering? Or hi temp heat wrap?



Hi mordy.

Tape would be far too fiddly on such a narrow bore tubing, and it being teflon, no advantage would be gained IMHO. Heatshrink tubing to fit would be much better, but would need to be applied during construction. Far easier to use the enamel paint I mentioned...does the job, and one simply avoids hard rubbing (why would one want to anyway lol?! )...


----------



## mordy

I misunderstood - thought the paint flaked off from the Teflon....


----------



## connieflyer

Adapters look really great CJ, will definatly be an upgrade to what MX puts out.  As far as price goes, better quality for less, who can complain about that, understand, why would you have to absorb extra costs. Not a problem for me at all.  Looking forward to a pair, really want to see if the El39 is that much better than I am hearing now.  I switched out the El 11's with a pair of Mullard El 38's, and at least with the Senn 800, are not overpowering at all. Might even like these better.  Of course would have to reevaluate after the Empyians get here. Different sound to be sure. It is hard to realize how this amp keeps improving with the various tube changes.  Every time I think, it can not get any better, you stay up late one night and discover another gem, convert it, and sends us on a mad dash to acquire the lastest and greatest tube before they are all gone.  And no, I am not complaining.  Thanks again for all you do on our behalf. A great man indeed.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> YIPPEE guys...
> 
> First the good news...my adapter parts arrived from the US yesterday.
> Now the bad news...the dreaded Customs guys stung me big time. And to add insult to injury, UPS added on their own handling (now called 'brokerage') charge...what a rip-off!! (But ParcelForce here do the same thing alas ). Further insult of course came from said Customs intervention totally negating the so-called UPS "Express" service (at much greater cost...*never again!!*).
> ...


Your adapters are looking good h1 , also I don't have a problem with the extra cost, perfectly reasonable, customs seem to be a law unto themselves . Anyway h1, like everyone else I'm really looking forward to trying your new discovery, and I'm sure they will sound wonderful, so it's a big thank you from me in advance! .


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 21, 2019)

mordy said:


> The trick is to learn how to identify these Franken tubes and look for rebranded ones. All 7N7 tubes (with the exception of National Union - rare) were made by Sylvania. Some time ago I bought a used pair rebranded as GE for less than $12 incl shipping:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Lansdale “frankentubes” (flat heads) are definitely National Union...owned by Philco from 1947, and their name comes from the NU main factory that was  located at Lansdale, Pennsylvania.   The construction is slightly different from Sylvanias (as you say, the vast majority of 7N7s), and apart from the obvious flat top, the trick to identify them is the long chrome to 3/4 of the tube and the oval “racetrack” type lower mica,  against the more straight one found in Sylvanias.   Since all factories rebranded tubes, there must be many around under other brands...or better yet, with NO brand remaining on them (even cheaper).  I bought my “lucky lot” of 13 7N7s some two years ago for about $ 40, and (to complicate things) it included another properly NU branded pair, this one “round top”, straight  micas and black plates,  (I guess older) from a totally different batch and the only “black plates” of the lot.  Great sounding also, from the few minutes tested...

Anyway, the overall sound of all “big bottle” 7N7s is very similar, but NUs sound different from Sylvanias in a subtle way...more lively, maybe.  All pair beautifully with the EL38s giving a natural, “classic”,  free flowing triode sound that I found really musical...and different from other drivers like the EL11s.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 21, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Great Johnny, this should be interesting. Do you have the Euforia or Elise? If it pairs well with the Euforia (I haven't tried the pairing), you just may convince ME to get a pair too, LOL. Or if HD-579 doesn't work for you and your 7N7 recommendation doesn't work our for me, let's just say we're even  HAHa



Hi DL, I have absolutely no doubts that your recommendation will work nicely with my Euforia !!  Come on, you and all people here, (except me) are HP specialists so I trust your word like gospel..  You suggested an HP “discontinued by manufacturer”,  so you caught me off guard (haha) but this was even better,  I got the HD-579s new,  “open box” for $ 80 against the cool $ 199  MSRP.  The 7N7s “big bottle” will pair with the EL38s really nice...just read my previous post, and I wish you luck with your lot.    If by chance the best ones are not there...humm, keep on searching.  So yes, we are even !!


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 22, 2019)

..


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 22, 2019)

My 7N7 adapter came in a few days ago... been super busy with work and heading to CanJam so only got to try it briefly. My initial impression is that they definitely one-up the 6SN7's in transient response and have a very clean, linear even semi-sweet, extended sound. However the stage and visceral feeling seem a fair bit behind the EL38 and Valvo EL11 & Valvo EL12, and although dynamics (transients) are as good as the VT-96, there's not as much weight / punch so until now I still prefer the VT-96 to these, which are the 6N7 tall metal black tubes.

@Johnnysound I got the same type as you mentioned in this post here, but still haven't found the more rare initial one you reported in this post.
Also RE the HD-579 'cans, certainly they're great performers but my side of caution was meant to mean that good headphones have synergy with all amps but not others, so wishing you luck. And later this weekend I just may get to try this and other selected cans directly on the Euforia or even the new Anniversary Edition if it's present there 

Do note however that I literally won't be able to list more than a few _super-brief _comments about gear I get to sample there this year due to a verry-tight flight and long work schedule hardly even leaving enough time for sleep.


----------



## connieflyer

An interesting article https://www.head-fi.org/threads/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared.634201/  by David Mahler Member of the Trade: Headphones.com,on fifty eight headphones he owns and the associated amps and dacs. Gives a nice break down of the price  quality and ratings.


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> The Lansdale “frankentubes” (flat heads) are definitely National Union...owned by Philco from 1947, and their name comes from the NU main factory that was  located at Lansdale, Pennsylvania.   The construction is slightly different from Sylvanias (as you say, the vast majority of 7N7s), and apart from the obvious flat top, the trick to identify them is the long chrome to 3/4 of the tube and the oval “racetrack” type lower mica,  against the more straight one found in Sylvanias.   Since all factories rebranded tubes, there must be many around under other brands...or better yet, with NO brand remaining on them (even cheaper).  I bought my “lucky lot” of 13 7N7s some two years ago for about $ 40, and (to complicate things) it included another properly NU branded pair, this one “round top”, straight  micas and black plates,  (I guess older) from a totally different batch and the only “black plates” of the lot.  Great sounding also, from the few minutes tested...
> 
> Anyway, the overall sound of all “big bottle” 7N7s is very similar, but NUs sound different from Sylvanias in a subtle way...more lively, maybe.  All pair beautifully with the EL38s giving a natural, “classic”,  free flowing triode sound that I found really musical...and different from other drivers like the EL11s.


Hi Johnnysound,
The GE branded tubes I bought have the flat heads and the oval "racetrack" micas. Are you saying that these are National Union tubes?
Bought them used, measuring around 68% of NOS. In my system, they sound on the bright side, and the low bass is not on par with my best driver tubes.
YMMV


----------



## triggsviola

Anybody else experience their headphone output being pushed in? I wasn't using any more force than normal. I'm usually quite ginger with my audio equipment.


----------



## mordy

triggsviola said:


> Anybody else experience their headphone output being pushed in? I wasn't using any more force than normal. I'm usually quite ginger with my audio equipment.


I have not have these problems with my Elise and Euforia, but I recently read about somebody who bought an Elise and the same thing happened to him - he upgraded to an Euforia.
Should be something covered by the warranty. Possibly Upscale Audio (in CA) offer warranty repair.


----------



## DecentLevi

Some brief impressions and awesome discoveries!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Trig, I have heard of this from time to time on other equipment. It could be that the connection has become loose.  I would write to Lukasz and ask him, if it were me, I would remove the bottom plate, unplugged of course, and inspect the plug and see if it can be tightened. Wish you luck either way.


----------



## OctavianH

DecentLevi said:


> Some brief impressions and awesome discoveries!!!



Very interesting the Quad PA but I've read that supports max 300 Ohm. So no T1 for it, it seems.

http://quad-hifi.co.uk/product-detail.php?pid=35


----------



## Johnnysound

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> The GE branded tubes I bought have the flat heads and the oval "racetrack" micas. Are you saying that these are National Union tubes?
> Bought them used, measuring around 68% of NOS. In my system, they sound on the bright side, and the low bass is not on par with my best driver tubes.
> YMMV



Hi Mordy,  Don’t know about GEs 7N7s...rebranded Sylvanias (?).  All my 7N7s have rounded micas with straight sides, including a NU pair.  The “racetrack” of the Lansdales is more like a proper oval, and are the only “flat heads” of the lot...


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Mordy,  Don’t know about GEs 7N7s...rebranded Sylvanias (?).  All my 7N7s have rounded micas with straight sides, including a NU pair.  The “racetrack” of the Lansdales is more like a proper oval, and are the only “flat heads” of the lot...


Here are pictures of the GE 7N7 tubes. They are supposed to be flatheads. The date code is 2-04 which should mean January 1952 (or is it 1962?). The factory code is 188-5 which is the GE Owensboro, KY factory. 
There is a very faint lettering on the top of one tube; maybe H 2 T. Don't know what it means - perhaps August 1962 Factory T which is similar to a Sylvania code system.
Here is the tube - there are two identical oval shaped micas. The bottom one has a thin slit cutout in the middle.







The question is if this a Sylvania or NU? If it was made in 1962 it cannot be a NU since NU stopped production in 1954.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 23, 2019)

mordy said:


> Here are pictures of the GE 7N7 tubes. They are supposed to be flatheads. The date code is 2-04 which should mean January 1952 (or is it 1962?). The factory code is 188-5 which is the GE Owensboro, KY factory.
> There is a very faint lettering on the top of one tube; maybe H 2 T. Don't know what it means - perhaps August 1962 Factory T which is similar to a Sylvania code system.
> Here is the tube - there are two identical oval shaped micas. The bottom one has a thin slit cutout in the middle.
> 
> ...



Yes indeed, your GEs look like flatheads, black plates, same oval micas,  slit cutout (and small hole ?) included. My Lansdales are grey plates date code 2-05, no other markings visible other than faint “Lansdale JAN-CBRZ made in USA”.  And I discovered that my pair of NUs  (date code 5152 ?) are also flatheads, black plates and the same micas, see the “side to side” picture.

Could not take a decent pic of my Sylvanias because of the dark glass, but they have different micas: longer,  with straight sides, also a slit cutout but no hole, and two other small cutouts on one side.   My guess is that your GE is not a Sylvania, so it must be an NU, 1952 vintage.  To me, it looks pretty the same as the NU on the left...





And Mordy, I suggest to read Post #1259 user: bcowen, Schiit Lyr blog.  Since the “frankentubes” are causing such a stir there,  they do not care much about brands, but construction... including a pic of your GEs, as the real thing  !!


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Yes indeed, your GEs look like flatheads, black plates, same oval micas,  slit cutout (and small hole ?) included. My Lansdales are grey plates date code 2-05, no other markings visible other than very faint “Lansdale JAN-CBRZ made in USA”.  And I discovered that my pair of NUs  (date code 5152 ?) are also flatheads, black plates and the same micas, see the “side to side” picture.
> 
> Could not take a decent pic of my Sylvanias because of the dark glass, but they have different micas: longer,  with straight sides, also a slit cutout but no hole, and two other small cutouts on one side.   My guess is that your GE is not a Sylvania, so it must be an NU, 1952 vintage.  To me, it looks pretty the same as the NU on the left...
> 
> ...


Hi Johnnysound,
Thanks for your help in untangling the origin of the GE 7N7 Frankentube. And yes, there is a small hole in the mica in line with the slot.
The 7N7 is supposedly the same as a 6SN7A. The reason I was looking for the Sylvania Frankentube from the 40's is that I am looking for a reasonably priced tube as a true substitute for the Sylvania 6SN7A or 6SN7W with a metal base - it looks very similar. The Sylvania 6SN7W metal base is priced too high for me. I am wondering if a 1945 7N7 Sylvania Frankentube sounds the same as the Sylvania metal base 6SN7W.
I have the black base 6SN7W, but from what I read the metal base sounds different.
In addition, I could also use the 7N7 12V equivalent with the designation 14N7 but this tube does not come with a metal base as far as I know.
I have found that many National Union tubes sound excellent and they are not too expensive. I have the 6N7, 6N7G, 6N7GT, 6C8G and 6F8G. Especially the 6N7 metal tube and the 6C8G are real sleepers.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 24, 2019)

The 7N7s look very similar to the earliest 6SN7s...except for the base/pins.  And the metal SN7/VT96 needs an adaptor..(?)


----------



## Scutey

Managed to buy a job lot of five EL11, for 19 euro, bit of a gamble as they are untested, two of the five appear to be black coated ST Telefunkens, does anyone have both grey and black glass versions, and if so, are there any sonic differences?.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Managed to buy a job lot of five EL11, for 19 euro, bit of a gamble as they are untested, two of the five appear to be black coated ST Telefunkens, does anyone have both grey and black glass versions, and if so, are there any sonic differences?.


Sounds like a great deal! I would not be afraid of these lots - the tubes are usually good.
Don’t have the black ones. The ones I have are from the 40’s in drab military gray and almost no tube glow, but they sound great. Also have straight glass tubular EL11 tubes but they don’t sound as good as the ST types.
If you look carefully at the tube base by the pins you should see a two letter date code in white letters.
Google TFK date codes and you will find a chart to look for the dates.


----------



## barontan2418

39's in and rocking. Need some time before making too many comments but sounding very good.


----------



## barontan2418

barontan2418 said:


> 39's in and rocking. Need some time before making too many comments but sounding very good.



So good you got the image twice. Its an age thing.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Jun 24, 2019)

I finally received the EL38 adapters from China. I just fired up Euforia with 2xKen Rad 6SN7GT as drivers and EL38 as power tubes.
The sound is pretty amazing, even with almost no warm up of the amp. I guess the word that comes to mind are "depth" and "speed": bass notes are so precise!

However I have noticed that at relatively high volume the bass starts to distort on my HD800. It is not that it is overwhelming, but real distortion.
I have tried with other phones that I have around and the effect is there in all of them.

Have you guys noticed a similar problem?

EDIT: mine only have 7 pins....  and a "hole" where the 8th pin usually is in other tubes....


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry to hear you're having problems. I also have the same tube combinations and the Sennheiser 800 phones as well I put these in and turn the volume up quite high and experience no Distortion at all. Perhaps the tubes that you have are not burned in enough is the only thing I can think of. If you have no problem with the amplifier going into Distortion at higher volumes with different tubes that pretty much is down to the tubes whether it's the El 38 or the kr tubes hard to say. I would let this combination of tubes burn in for a while and see if the Distortion decreases or goes away. Perhaps someone else has a different Outlook, either way good luck that is a good combination


----------



## Tunkejazz

Thanks for checking @connieflyer, I have tried different drivers with the same result. It seems to be mostly in one channel now that I checked carefully. When I swapped the tubes, the distortion changed to the opposite channel, so one of the tubes seems to be to blame here.
I have contacted the seller, but I don't have much hope on that front. I bought them from valvetubes (at 29 GBP/piece). They have raised the prices to 45 GBP after I ordered them. Let's see what they answer. I will let the tubes settle with the amp on for a while.


----------



## connieflyer

Good job troubleshooting it! At least you know now the problem is a particular tube not the amp or something more serious. As far as a refund I see no reason why they wouldn't give you a refund or another tube. The fact that they raise the price after you purchase this one should make no difference. If you bought this through eBay you always have them as a backstop if the seller refuses to cooperate with you. Either way good luck to you


----------



## barontan2418

Tunkejazz said:


> I finally received the EL38 adapters from China. I just fired up Euforia with 2xKen Rad 6SN7GT as drivers and EL38 as power tubes.
> The sound is pretty amazing, even with almost no warm up of the amp. I guess the word that comes to mind are "depth" and "speed": bass notes are so precise!
> 
> However I have noticed that at relatively high volume the bass starts to distort on my HD800. It is not that it is overwhelming, but real distortion.
> ...



Hi T.J. I had  similar problem today pairing my Valvo EL11's with my newly obtained EL 39's. At higher volume which on occasion I do use I experienced bass distortion. These Valvo's work perfectly with both Elise and Euforia with 38's as powers The problem was cured when I exchanged the Valvo tubes with EL32's and then Telefunken EL 11's. 
I found with other tubes combinations that the Euforia can be rather more fussy than the Elise. I have in the past used both Ken rad and Sylvania 6SN7's as drivers in both amps with 38's as powers with no distortion throughout the volume range. I think its a case of trying various driver tubes until you come up with a perfect combination.


----------



## Tunkejazz

barontan2418 said:


> Hi T.J. I had  similar problem today pairing my Valvo EL11's with my newly obtained EL 39's. At higher volume which on occasion I do use I experienced bass distortion. These Valvo's work perfectly with both Elise and Euforia with 38's as powers The problem was cured when I exchanged the Valvo tubes with EL32's and then Telefunken EL 11's.
> I found with other tubes combinations that the Euforia can be rather more fussy than the Elise. I have in the past used both Ken rad and Sylvania 6SN7's as drivers in both amps with 38's as powers with no distortion throughout the volume range. I think its a case of trying various driver tubes until you come up with a perfect combination.



Interesting! My problem is that I only have 6SN7 tubes for drivers. I will try with a few of them but I suspect that changing the tube family might make more sense.
I have some Russian 6H8C that could do the trick too.

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Sounds like a great deal! I would not be afraid of these lots - the tubes are usually good.
> Don’t have the black ones. The ones I have are from the 40’s in drab military gray and almost no tube glow, but they sound great. Also have straight glass tubular EL11 tubes but they don’t sound as good as the ST types.
> If you look carefully at the tube base by the pins you should see a two letter date code in white letters.
> Google TFK date codes and you will find a chart to look for the dates.


Thanks for the info mordy!,  along with the black glass TFK's was a grey glass version, a ST Valvo and a unbranded straight glass, will check those bases for dates.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Thanks for the info mordy!,  along with the black glass TFK's was a grey glass version, a ST Valvo and a unbranded straight glass, will check those bases for dates.


If you find the two letter code by the pins on the straight glass it is a TFK. Here is a link to the codes with a useful chart:
https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx


----------



## connieflyer

I see a lot of you folks are still using the 6SN7 variety of tubes.  Here is a link for those of you that have not seen it.  Very interesting breakdown of the 6SN7 family.  A must read.   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> If you find the two letter code by the pins on the straight glass it is a TFK. Here is a link to the codes with a useful chart:
> https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx


That's great, cheers!, I'll keep the link and check them out when they arrive .


----------



## hypnos1

Tunkejazz said:


> I finally received the EL38 adapters from China. I just fired up Euforia with 2xKen Rad 6SN7GT as drivers and EL38 as power tubes.
> The sound is pretty amazing, even with almost no warm up of the amp. I guess the word that comes to mind are "depth" and "speed": bass notes are so precise!
> 
> However I have noticed that at relatively high volume the bass starts to distort on my HD800. It is not that it is overwhelming, but real distortion.
> ...



Hi Tunkejazz.

There shouldn't really be any such problem, but as @connieflyer said, perhaps it will subside after a bit more burn-in....do hope so. If not, it definitely is a bad tube and you're perfectly entitled to a refund...no question lol!! 

As for the missing pin, that's quite normal, given pin #6 isn't used.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi T.J. I had  similar problem today pairing my Valvo EL11's with my newly obtained EL 39's. At higher volume which on occasion I do use I experienced bass distortion. These Valvo's work perfectly with both Elise and Euforia with 38's as powers The problem was cured when I exchanged the Valvo tubes with EL32's and then Telefunken EL 11's.
> I found with other tubes combinations that the Euforia can be rather more fussy than the Elise. I have in the past used both Ken rad and Sylvania 6SN7's as drivers in both amps with 38's as powers with no distortion throughout the volume range. I think its a case of trying various driver tubes until you come up with a perfect combination.



Hi bt...glad the adapters arrived promptly and safely, and hope that you find they continue to improve with more burn-in of both them and the tubes.

Strange about that bass distortion when driven by the Valvos...I myself have never had any such issues, either from my mesh-plated versions or 'standard' ones. Might be worth giving them longer time partnering the 39s and seeing how it goes...if you so wish lol! . But there are indeed plenty of other good tubes that I'm sure will excel driving the EL39s. Sometimes, a great deal also depends on the partnering gear...especially the DAC's output. And was it the same with _all_ headphones? Looking forward to how things progress...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi

Johnny have you gotten to try the Senn. HD 579's on your Euforia yet?


----------



## DecentLevi

From my experience after what must be the largest ever tube rolling on the Euforia, that distortion on louder levels is usually one of the amps' signs that it doesn't like the tube combination, so I second that another class of driver/power should cure the problem. Though it is peculiar to receive distortion on the EL38 power + 6SN7 combo so this one could be down to tube condition on either side. Also I've noticed that usually distortion / volume break up on high volume is an indicator that there are also trace amounts of distortion on normal levels as well.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jun 26, 2019)

Not yet, DL....picking the phones tomorrow from my courier.  BTW, since both you and @mordy  liked them so much, got a pair of NOS Ken-Rad 6N7/VT96, 44’ vintage for about $ 22, shipping included (!).  I now suspect that  _*early*_ 6N7xx types (as the 7N7s)  will sound great in Euforia,  specially paired with the EL38s...and EL39s, most probably.

Been watching  the 6N7*G * (ST type, nice looking) and the 6N7S (straight glass), various brands, and quite a few of them do have round black plates, (some dark glass), I would say  exactly the same plates as the famous (and _very_ expensive)  “Tung Sol BGRP”...but at less than one tenth the price !!

Any experiences ?


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 26, 2019)

Cool Johnny on the 7N7 acquisition, but be advised these also need adapters! (XuLing's on eBay are quite decent). Also do note these are perhaps the most picky on synergy of any tubes I have ever tried. So my advice if you get the 7N7's is to try them with every possible combination of powers and see what works best. Many combos with these have distortion and some are super standouts, so test, test, test. 

On my 8x tube config. on the Euforia I must have already tried around 300 combinations and have about 5 pages of combinations just for the external adapter combos; I've almost given up trying every mathematically possible combination having already so many stellar favorites at this point, especially since I'm starting to gravitate towards other amps having tasted so much guilty-pleasure at the meet last weekend, LoL! I often don't even bother tube rolling with having to go through the list and change so many at a time with the way my amp is set up, but at least it's taken me to great new sonic heights.


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 26, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...glad the adapters arrived promptly and safely, and hope that you find they continue to improve with more burn-in of both them and the tubes.
> 
> Strange about that bass distortion when driven by the Valvos...I myself have never had any such issues, either from my mesh-plated versions or 'standard' ones. Might be worth giving them longer time partnering the 39s and seeing how it goes...if you so wish lol! . But there are indeed plenty of other good tubes that I'm sure will excel driving the EL39s. Sometimes, a great deal also depends on the partnering gear...especially the DAC's output. And was it the same with _all_ headphones? Looking forward to how things progress...CHEERS!...CJ



Hi H1.
Adapters are perfect, many thanks. After a bit of driver tube rolling I have finally settled on  a Valvo and Telefunken EL11 + EL39's combination which is certainly an improvement on all previous tube types/combinations I've used . Playing Aaron Copland's  Rodeo at the moment (one of my favourite test CD's) and it has never sounded better, clarity, definition and instrument placement are top notch. So thanks again  for introducing us to the EL39.


----------



## Tunkejazz

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Tunkejazz.
> 
> There shouldn't really be any such problem, but as @connieflyer said, perhaps it will subside after a bit more burn-in....do hope so. If not, it definitely is a bad tube and you're perfectly entitled to a refund...no question lol!!
> 
> As for the missing pin, that's quite normal, given pin #6 isn't used.



Some news on the EL38 tube problem: I gave them some extra amp hours and the distortion is gone. It seems that the tubes needed to "settle". 
I find this effect very strange, never in my life had a similar behaviour with any 6SN7, 6080 or 6AS7G tube. 

Perhaps...the EL38 were brand new/ never used?


----------



## barontan2418

Diverging  from the subject slightly, what's your oldest tube in use on Euforia/Elise. Mine I believe is  Telefunken EL11 D.R.P
Which having looked it up on Google stands for: 
WWII ORIGINAL GERMAN WWII original German radio tube Telefunken. Bears the DRP mark (Deutsches Reich Patent)

Tubes lettering code is hd which puts it at Oct 1938. Amazing that a tube 14 years older than me still rocks, my wife would tell you I stopped rocking long ago.


----------



## hypnos1

Tunkejazz said:


> Some news on the EL38 tube problem: I gave them some extra amp hours and the distortion is gone. It seems that the tubes needed to "settle".
> I find this effect very strange, never in my life had a similar behaviour with any 6SN7, 6080 or 6AS7G tube.
> 
> Perhaps...the EL38 were brand new/ never used?



That's good news Tunkejazz...this sort of thing does happen from time to time alas! And yes, it may well be because new. Hope you stay trouble-free from now on...


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1.
> Adapters are perfect, many thanks. After a bit of driver tube rolling I have finally settled on  a Valvo and Telefunken EL11 + EL39's combination which is certainly an improvement on all previous tube types/combinations I've used . Playing Aaron Copland's  Rodeo at the moment (one of my favourite test CD's) and it has never sounded better, clarity, definition and instrument placement are top notch. So thanks again  for introducing us to the EL39.



Glad you've found a good combo bt...and that you're enjoying the EL39s. Things can only get even better lol ...CJ

ps. Had another mini shock the other day...plugged in my HD 650s (which I relegated to expendable testing cans when I got my Beyer T1s!) and what can I say? With the EL39s in place, I couldn't believe how good they now sound. Nowhere near the Empys, of course, and lacking the T1's also wonderful soundstage and airiness, but much better than I've ever heard them before nonetheless. These tubes certainly do seem to have been sprinkled with more than their fair share of Fairy Dust lol!!......


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Diverging  from the subject slightly, what's your oldest tube in use on Euforia/Elise. Mine I believe is  Telefunken EL11 D.R.P
> Which having looked it up on Google stands for:
> WWII ORIGINAL GERMAN WWII original German radio tube Telefunken. Bears the DRP mark (Deutsches Reich Patent)
> 
> Tubes lettering code is hd which puts it at Oct 1938. Amazing that a tube 14 years older than me still rocks, my wife would tell you I stopped rocking long ago.


Hi barontan2418,
The oldest tubes I have are from the 1940's WW2 era. As you mentioned, it is amazing that these 70-75 year old tubes are still working perfectly - wish I could say that about myself; I am in that age bracket as well.....


----------



## barontan2418

Came upon a site last night whilst searching for a spare EL39 that showed a stock of 800 such tubes at £16 a pair. The site made out to be French but as I hurried out of it I noticed  few Chinese characters. I got caught out for £40 not long ago whilst purchasing a Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231  from what alluded to be a Spanish site.  After waiting several weeks for said tube to arrive I received a package from China containing a 20 cent ring. God knows why they bothered sending anything.


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Came upon a site last night whilst searching for a spare EL39 that showed a stock of 800 such tubes at £16 a pair. The site made out to be French but as I hurried out of it I noticed  few Chinese characters. I got caught out for £40 not long ago whilst purchasing a Ken Rad 6sn7gt vt231  from what alluded to be a Spanish site.  After waiting several weeks for said tube to arrive I received a package from China containing a 20 cent ring. God knows why they bothered sending anything.


That's terrible that people are so crooked. In the US eBay offers a lot of protection, and I always try to use a credit card via PayPal which offers another two layers of protection against fraud.
About two years ago I ordered tubes from Russia. They were sent out with tracking from a reputable seller, arrived here, but got lost in the US Customs. Trying to speak to them and the US Post Office was like talking to a wall.
At the end PayPal reimbursed me in full.


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> That's terrible that people are so crooked. In the US eBay offers a lot of protection, and I always try to use a credit card via PayPal which offers another two layers of protection against fraud.
> About two years ago I ordered tubes from Russia. They were sent out with tracking from a reputable seller, arrived here, but got lost in the US Customs. Trying to speak to them and the US Post Office was like talking to a wall.
> At the end PayPal reimbursed me in full.



Yes in my naivety I failed to use PayPal, in fact it stands to reason that dodgy sites are most likely not to have that option. Wise after the fact. Never again.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Diverging  from the subject slightly, what's your oldest tube in use on Euforia/Elise. Mine I believe is  Telefunken EL11 D.R.P
> Which having looked it up on Google stands for:
> WWII ORIGINAL GERMAN WWII original German radio tube Telefunken. Bears the DRP mark (Deutsches Reich Patent)
> 
> Tubes lettering code is hd which puts it at Oct 1938. Amazing that a tube 14 years older than me still rocks, my wife would tell you I stopped rocking long ago.


It's amazing tubes can sound so good after so long, I have a pair of Ken Rad VT-163 dated October 1943, in pristine condition, they look as good as the day they were made, even the box is mint.
ps sorry to hear you were stung, if it's any consolation you're not the only one, I have too .


----------



## DecentLevi

Look who's on the front page of Head-Fi... and all this literally was only from the 1st of 3 (main) impressions from SoCal CanJam last weekend that I wrote in 1 hour.
My final impressions will be this weekend - hint... there is an industry changing dinosaur lurking around the corner


----------



## Johnnysound

Great reviews, DL !


----------



## teknorob23

These NOS Philips mini-watts are playing for the first time in my Euforia are next up in my quest to discover whether @hypnos1, with his introduction to the EL11's has not ruined my tube rolling career before it even going . After 8 or so hours burn in they're actually coming the closest so far and in one area might even be dare i say it a little better. The bass has a shorter decay and seems slightly better controlled especially in mid-bass. Listening to a fantastic new (interpretation of old school) techno album "Blue Spring" by Nathan Micay, the kick drums are intensely accurate and controlled yet natural sounding with zero bloom. They dont go as low as the valvos in terms of lovely sub bass. In addition to the bass the midrange while not as full seems equally precise as does the treble and the stage width is not far off the valvos either with perhaps more airiness.

Before i get carried away, as is my tendency with new kit, i'm guessing theres still some running in to do and i need to broaden my listening material before i can give any sort of reliable assessment, but so far i dont find myself searching for their merits as i did with the Sylvania 7n7's, but so far purely based on listening to electronica, my Stellia havent had my head nodding like this for a while. 




 

quickly on the on that last note, i'm still not 100% decided on whether i like the 7N7s. In my set up atleast, where i'm using the Euforia entirely as a headamp, i think they're just a bit too polite. In that i mean they do everything well, they sound lovely and natural but its all a bit conservative and the staging is positively mean compare to the full flavour , 100% sugar coca cola buzz epicness that i get from the E11s



DecentLevi said:


> Look who's on the front page of Head-Fi... and all this literally was only from the 1st of 3 (main) impressions from SoCal CanJam last weekend that I wrote in 1 hour.
> My final impressions will be this weekend - hint... there is an industry changing dinosaur lurking around the corner



really enjoyed reading your impressions and looking forward to the introduction to the new "dinosaur". On the whole i completely agree with your assessment of the IEM market but did you get a chance to swing by the Empire Ear's stand, because i'd be interested to get your take on the Phantoms. On whats been my whistle-stop tour through headfi trying to find something that would play nice with my poor sensitive lugs, i must have tried most TOTL iems many of which had their merits but very few IMO performed well enough with different types of music, choosing to focus on technical performance over musicality. The Phantoms however completely bucked this trend with the most "hi-fi" tuning id heard, by which i mean a beautiful natural tone/timbre, coherent presentation while still be technically good enough to used for reference listening.  The finding of yours that i found surprising, was how much you liked the Quad amp. Coming from a 2 channel background and living in the UK i have lot of time for Quad, but i found PA One+ was more in line with Elise and that for me at least it didnt come near to the Euforia. Admittedly i have only listened to it for a short time in another system and i was focused on demo'ing the stellia's.  Great read looking forward to the next edition


----------



## mordy

teknorob23 said:


> These NOS Philips mini-watts are playing for the first time in my Euforia are next up in my quest to discover whether @hypnos1, with his introduction to the EL11's has not ruined my tube rolling career before it even going . After 8 or so hours burn in they're actually coming the closest so far and in one area might even be dare i say it a little better. The bass has a shorter decay and seems slightly better controlled especially in mid-bass. Listening to a fantastic new (interpretation of old school) techno album "Blue Spring" by Nathan Micay, the kick drums are intensely accurate and controlled yet natural sounding with zero bloom. They dont go as low as the valvos in terms of lovely sub bass. In addition to the bass the midrange while not as full seems equally precise as does the treble and the stage width is not far off the valvos either with perhaps more airiness.
> 
> Before i get carried away, as is my tendency with new kit, i'm guessing theres still some running in to do and i need to broaden my listening material before i can give any sort of reliable assessment, but so far i dont find myself searching for their merits as i did with the Sylvania 7n7's, but so far purely based on listening to electronica, my Stellia havent had my head nodding like this for a while.
> 
> ...


Hi t23,
You mention head nodding - by me it is toe tapping lol. If i found myself subconsciously tapping my toes and heels it is sure sign of a really good sounding setup.


----------



## WithGumption

Alright guys, I'm ready to join the EL family, I think.  To be fair, I don't like owning large stocks of tubes--because I like to put a lot of hours on a set of tubes before I make any decisions....

I was running some NOS Bendix 6080's (that I paid out the nose for) and some Ken-Rad Jan 6SN7 VT-231 NOS black glass US Navy issue from 1944.  I absolutely loved this pairing and the holographic soundstage from the Bendix.  Unfortunately, I tried several pairs of the Bendix and could not find a set that just didn't have some level of microphonics.  It didn't necessarily impact listening, but anytime I touched the chassis, turned the volume knob or inserted my headphone jack--I heard that dreaded pinging.  At the price I paid, I just expected them to be much lower in microphony--so long story short, they go back.

I'm currently using the stock tubes with the Ken-Rads, but what I'm really looking for is some recommendations for a set of power tubes that match really well with the Ken-Rads (I know other members have them or something very similar).

I'd like to buy one pair and give them a long run if I can--doesn't have to be in the EL family either.  If anyone has some tubes they aren't using that they think would have some good synergy, I'd love to buy them off you too....and as far as adapters are concerned, can we trust the ones currently being made on eBay?

I'd love to find the holographic sound staging that the Bendix provided....tips are welcome.  I read all the posts in this thread, but to be honest, the conversation goes so fast and furious sometimes, its tough to keep up and easy to forget what's already been said.


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## mordy (Jun 27, 2019)

WithGumption said:


> Alright guys, I'm ready to join the EL family, I think.  To be fair, I don't like owning large stocks of tubes--because I like to put a lot of hours on a set of tubes before I make any decisions....
> 
> I was running some NOS Bendix 6080's (that I paid out the nose for) and some Ken-Rad Jan 6SN7 VT-231 NOS black glass US Navy issue from 1944.  I absolutely loved this pairing and the holographic soundstage from the Bendix.  Unfortunately, I tried several pairs of the Bendix and could not find a set that just didn't have some level of microphonics.  It didn't necessarily impact listening, but anytime I touched the chassis, turned the volume knob or inserted my headphone jack--I heard that dreaded pinging.  At the price I paid, I just expected them to be much lower in microphony--so long story short, they go back.
> 
> ...


Hi WG,
I have had good results fixing some microphonic tubes with a tightly pulled band of self fusing hi temp silicone tape. Inexpensive, found on eBay or automotive parts stores.
You just cut a piece 3/4" shorter than the circumference of the tube, unpeel the protective cover from the tape, and stretch it so that it overlaps and fuses together.
It usually works very well. The tape comes off without residue if you want to remove it.
The tube ends up looking like a Tung Sol BGRP lol......


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi t23,
> You mention head nodding - by me it is toe tapping lol. If i found myself subconsciously tapping my toes and heels it is sure sign of a really good sounding setup.


I'm sort of with you on this mordy, I like to go for a combo of finger and toe tap, If I do both, it's usually a stellar sound .


----------



## mordy

Head bobbing, finger tapping, toe tapping - your subconscious love of music expressing itself - it's all good!
And sometimes I just sit there, smiling from ear to ear......


----------



## teknorob23

mordy said:


> Hi t23,
> You mention head nodding - by me it is toe tapping lol. If i found myself subconsciously tapping my toes and heels it is sure sign of a really good sounding setup.





Scutey said:


> I'm sort of with you on this mordy, I like to go for a combo of finger and toe tap, If I do both, it's usually a stellar sound .





mordy said:


> Hi t23,
> You mention head nodding - by me it is toe tapping lol. If i found myself subconsciously tapping my toes and heels it is sure sign of a really good sounding setup.



the head nod is a hang over from past life as pretentious techno DJ and is physical tick exclusive to good electronic music, the toe and finger taps are for everything else


----------



## teknorob23

Thank you @hynos1 for these works of art and I hope it’s not too much of sacrilegious act to leave the mini-watts in the driving seats


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 29, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Terrific Canjam, [...]
> I'll offer some brief impressions below: [...]
> 
> I bought the *Feliks Audio Elise MkII* to pair with my *ZMF Auteur*. I've been super happy with the Auteur but hearing them through this amp added a level of warmth, musicality and sheer joy I hadn't experienced with them before. Euphony is the only single word that describes the synergy between Auteur<-->Elise, but without any of that gooey warmth that obscures detail as I'd encountered with other tube amps. Guess I'm officially on OTL tube guy now. Personally, I also think the design is simple, elegant and handsome. Ah, glowing tubes against a black metal background. It's amazing how we learn in this hobby and continually evolve in "what we know."  I had previously run a fully balanced configuration and was convinved that was the preferred config., but the single-ended Elise made me realize it's the implementation, not the technology, that defines quality and greatness. So time to change out my XLR balanced interconnects. If anyone has a recommendation for some affordable RCA interconnects to replace the XLR's, and a quality adapter for my XLR 4-pin terminated headphone cables to 1/4 inch male, I'd welcome suggestions. Importantly, thanks to Evan and the great people at *Upscale Audio* booth for allowing me a nice long listen.
> ...



Well @LoryWiv interesting to see you get a Feliks Audio amp. I've been an avid Feliks Audio proponent and have owned their Elise then Euforia amps since 2015. Are you sure what you got was an Elise Mk2? I've actually never heard of that and didn't see it on the F.A. website just now. The Euforia is the upgraded Elise. For the sake of your ultimate experience I do hope it was the Euforia, having owned both I can attest a major improvement in fidelity / performance in all aspects across the board when upgrading to the Euforia, as with everybody who has tried both, save for some rare exceptions.

If not I also pose the question: had you tried the Euforia amp? (It looks the same as the Elise but about maybe 25% larger transformer; the block in the back of the unit, and is about 30% heavier and with greatly improved internals under the hood). Also by chance did you get to try the Quad PA One + amp? It's a British headphone amp about the same price as Elise boasting a low/high gain switch and internal DAC (though not entirely necessary) and balanced / SE 'normal' connections - not wanting to detract from the amp on hand I will tell you it's a super tempting option that had seemingly _vastly _more power reserves for harder to drive headphones.

For anyone who didn't make it, the Feliks Audio amps were actually on exhibit from another vendor, which name escapes me. They were driving it with a DAP unit and many headphones to choose from. I was really quite surprised at how much better the HD-800 paired with the Euforia than HD-600, the HD-800 sounding much more holographic and like a proper hi-end tube amp and the 600's sounding somewhat bland by contrast. But of course this can change a good deal depending on the DAC and tubes used on the Euforia. Speaking of which, Their Euforia (as well as Elise) were using stock tubes and actually sounding much better than I remembered, my having been solely a user of rare 'aftermarket' tubes. I think it was 6H13C powers with new Chinese PSVane drivers which were fairly good.

I tried the full ZMF Line and Auteur was my favorite too. Also I vaguely remember the Empyreans sounding fairly good on the Euforia, but not as good as on other amps, and still a few steps back from newer electrodynamic headphones I tried. (more to come later)

Speaking of tubes, feel free to browse around on recent pages of this thread for some tube recommendations. If you don't want to buy adapters though you may just want to stick with the stock tubes because they were quite well. A big improvement though would require tubes that need an adapter.
I heartily welcome you to this thread, we're a nice community here.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 29, 2019)

@LoryWiv RE my previous post here

PS - if your F.A. order is not finalized yet, I recommend inquiring about their newest amp, the Euforia MK2 which is called "anniversary edition" version. Here was a quote about it from page 400, thanks to ConnieFlyer:

"A little more info on Anniversary model, just got email back from Lukasz and he okayed me releasing the information.

" Indeed we are excited to launch the special edition Euforia very soon, expected in late summer time.

Pictures yet to come, but i can tell you it will have a very special finish, sort of space grey paint used in automobile industry, very classy and durable.

The most important is of course what lies beneth - full details soon, but the main changes relate to new internal wiring (replacing pure silver with single crystal copper, to gain some musicality and warmth), new upgraded capacitors, new trafo with more power reserves and better shielding against external interference and some other tweaks. All in all it sound fabulous, i was personally surprised how different it sounds to regular Euforia. Especially with more "dry" headphones like T1 just brings whole new life into them.

Price expect to be around 30% up on the regular model. More info to come! Please feel free to share with the community. "

So now am looking forward even more to the arrival."


----------



## OctavianH

Mk2 is the 2018 refresh of the original Elise. Differences below from the former Elise sold until 2018:







I have the same MK2 bought on 03.2018 directly from F.A.


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## DecentLevi

Stranger Than Fiction... Not a single word all this time on this thread or the Elise threads as far as I have seen about a "2018 Edition" of their amps,  and only on a banner from their product news page, until now. I'll bet the 2018 versions with the tubes many of us are using would likely sound even better with the newer versions, FWIW.


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> yes you're absolutely right, my heads full of so many different wire and prices since @hypnos1 got me hooked on the wanders of DIY, but i would say this makes the UPOCC even better value  One thing to note this stuff is really thick around 11mm so there are limited choices when it comes to plugs. ETI research Kryo were the only option i could find. Fortunately they are really good and incredibly they also fit the miserly rca ports on a Hugo2. Are you planning to build?



I discussed with this guy and he told me that he found some Silver connectors manufactured by WBT which match the NEI-2001 even if it has a different structure than the other cables. He advised me to use these ones against Kryo because normally for such a cable you put silver connector instead of silver plated copper. On monday I will provide you exact details, if you are interested, related to these RCA connectors. But I have also a question related to directional interconnect cables. As you know, the directional cables have the grounding done only at one end.



> On some shielded designs you will see directional arrows which corresponds to fact that the shield is connected only at one end. In this way, the sheild is not responsible for carrying the return signal, hence it functions as a true shield. The directional arrows would therefore denote which side the shield is grounded at (usually at the source end).



Now my question: Am I right when saying that the grounded end has to be at the input of the Amp? Some claim that it has to be at the output of the DAC (source). From my understanding, this grounding is done one-sided to avoid ground loops and has to be done at the "dirtiest" ground point which has to be, normally, the AMP. The DAC which has also a LPS is normally "cleaner".


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I discussed with this guy and he told me that he found some Silver connectors manufactured by WBT which match the NEI-2001 even if it has a different structure than the other cables. He advised me to use these ones against Kryo because normally for such a cable you put silver connector instead of silver plated copper. On monday I will provide you exact details, if you are interested, related to these RCA connectors. But I have also a question related to directional interconnect cables. As you know, the directional cables have the grounding done only at one end.
> 
> 
> 
> Now my question: Am I right when saying that the grounded end has to be at the input of the Amp? Some claim that it has to be at the output of the DAC (source). From my understanding, this grounding is done one-sided to avoid ground loops and has to be done at the "dirtiest" ground point which has to be, normally, the AMP. The DAC which has also a LPS is normally "cleaner".



The WTB connector are really good, and yes the silver might make a difference, but the ETI plugs make such a good connection and while the conductor material is important, shell design, clamping etc are top notch with ETI plugs which is why they've been copied by so many other highly reverred manufacturers, namely KLE (my previous favourite plug but not wide enough for the neotech cable)  Does your chap sell ETI because if he does it might be worth looking at them as a comparison, but if the WTB's work then fantastic. One thing to make sure on is that they'll take this cable diameter, because its a struggle to get it in to the Kryo and they're rated at taking cables up to 11.6mm and it was still a real squeeze to get the neotech cable in. If these are the wtb's your talking about then you should be okay: WBT - 0152Ag. I speak from experience that this is where madness lies  Probably not a concern for you, but he the Kyros are one of the few highend plugs which also fit the tiny 12.5mm rca port on a Hugo2. Only downside to the Kyros is they have pretty small contact points to solder the wire to, so a good solering iron is very helpful here so you can localise the heat quickly to the contact without risk of melting the mounting.

Re earthing, on @hypnos1 advice i didnt bother and because the cables design means it shouldnt be an issue anyway as the everything is so well shielding. And in use i can confirm there performs flawlessly. as it should without it. if you do want to then yes attach the DAC end and not the other. 

All good thought because with earth or no earth and either plug i reckon you'll be really impressed with the cable you get at the end of it!


----------



## connieflyer

The Elise MK2 refers to the current build of the Elise.  Their have been improvements over it's lifespan.  This represents the latest improvements to the Elise. This review quotes are from MasterSwitch "The Competition:

If you have been intrigued by the Elise MkII, it makes total sense to check out its more expensive sibling, the Euforia. Costing nearly a third more than the Elise, the Euforia is virtually identical in looks. The difference between the two is in the Euforia’s superior circuit components - Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors and Dale and Caddock resistors, 100% pure silver signal wiring sealed in teflon, gold-plated tube sockets… The Euforia does have a slightly different tonal character too. In a sense, it ticks off all of our minor critique points outlined in the above Elise review - it’s less veiled, with more of an open, revealing, and transparent character than the Elise. Some people might still prefer the sonic glue of the Elise, but in our opinion, the Euforia is just another step up. It does that auto-biasing thing too."  
This gives an accurate description of the differences between the two products. Again, the Mark 2 represents the current configuration of the Elise amp, not the Euforia, which is a different amplifier.


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> if you do want to then yes attach the DAC end and not the other.
> 
> All good thought because with earth or no earth and either plug i reckon you'll be really impressed with the cable you get at the end of it!



So your opinion is reversed than mine: you say common ground (the soldered grounding end of the cable) has to be on the DAC output and not on the Amp input.
For me the "arrow" head on the directional cables was pointing to the soldered ground and also to the direction from "input" -> "output" so from DAC -> AMP.


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Thank you @hynos1 for these works of art and I hope it’s not too much of sacrilegious act to leave the mini-watts in the driving seats



Hi tr. Glad your adapters arrived safe and sound also...short journeys do have their advantages!...(but at least these aren't as risky as tubes. Am always amazed actually that more don't get damaged when travelling overseas especially lol).
And those Philips Mini-Watts look very nice, so as long as they sound great..._leave 'em in!!_ . Looking forward to your impressions of the EL39s......CHEERS!...CJ...(better get back to finishing @Johnnysound 's second adapter!! ...then it's just 4 to go - phew!).


----------



## connieflyer

Hi CJ, just wanted to thank you for the tube adapters and tubes, they arrived safe and sound a few minutes ago. Looking forward to giving them a good work out. So, all is good, glad to see the adapters have not worn you out too  much!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ, just wanted to thank you for the tube adapters and tubes, they arrived safe and sound a few minutes ago. Looking forward to giving them a good work out. So, all is good, glad to see the adapters have not worn you out too  much!



Great news cf...am always apprehensive about shipments to the US, especially with tubes. And am glad Customs haven't got a hold of 'em lol!! ...

Looking forward to your impressions of the EL39s also......CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Not too sure yet whether I'm all worn out or not...will let you know! ...

pps. Reading your post has reminded me it's time for a bit of dinner...then back to work!...


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## LoryWiv (Jun 29, 2019)

@DecentLevi  I think you are correct and I used incorrect nomenclature. It is the elise 2018 model that is on its way to me. According to the nice folk at upscale audio it does have a superior transformer and other enhancements since the original Elise. I have no doubt you are correct that the euphoria may offer some incremental improvement.  Based on price to performance and some other constraints, I hope to be very happy and get great enjoyment out of my elise for years to come, but it is good to know the euphoria offers a meaningful upgrade path.

 Thanks for taking the time and welcoming me to this community. It is always great to learn from the opinions and experience of others, and I'm sure I will have questions for you and the community once I gain a little bit of hands on experience with the amp.

Best!


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome aboard LoryWiv, the Elise Mk 2 is the official part number for your new Elise.  This is the second refinement of the Elise, I had the original, and it was a really nice amp.  With the new improvements, I believe it would have been better than the original.  You should get a lot of enjoyment out of this amp, and a word of advice.  Use the tubes that come with the amp, and get to know it as it burns in.  The amp itself, as well as the tubes need some time to really do their best, so I would not be in a big rush to start rolling tubes.  You have to find out what you like about the amp, and tubes first, you may decide you do not need to roll any tubes at all. It is a superior amp, hitting above it's price point.  Rolling tubes can get expensive, and most of the gains are incremental, not earth shattering.  A little better here and there all counts, but first you have to decide if what you are hearing is "good" enough for you.  If after many months, if you find that you wish it had more bass, or mids or treble, then you can start rolling tubes. But consider your whole system.  You have to consider your source, and headphones in this as well.  Upgrading one of those might bring you more of what you may be lacking, but most important is to let it burn in for a few hundred hours, and get to know what you like about it. If you have any questions, or just want to add to the commentary please do. All are welcome to post, and no question is too insignificant to ask. Their is a lot of knowledge here on this thread, and people willing to share it. Hypnos1, has more knowledge than anyone else here, as he was in on the design and testing of the original amp. He worked closely with the Feliks family to get the Elise up and moving. He will be more than welcome to help out with any concerns you may have.  And if you see two or more different opinions on questions about the amps, if one is Hypnos1, his is the one to go with.  I have been with him since the early days of the Elise, and have number 0005 of the Euforia and he has never misguided me. So welcome and enjoy the ride.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Welcome aboard LoryWiv, the Elise Mk 2 is the official part number for your new Elise.  This is the second refinement of the Elise, I had the original, and it was a really nice amp.  With the new improvements, I believe it would have been better than the original.  You should get a lot of enjoyment out of this amp, and a word of advice.  Use the tubes that come with the amp, and get to know it as it burns in.  The amp itself, as well as the tubes need some time to really do their best, so I would not be in a big rush to start rolling tubes.  You have to find out what you like about the amp, and tubes first, you may decide you do not need to roll any tubes at all. It is a superior amp, hitting above it's price point.  Rolling tubes can get expensive, and most of the gains are incremental, not earth shattering.  A little better here and there all counts, but first you have to decide if what you are hearing is "good" enough for you.  If after many months, if you find that you wish it had more bass, or mids or treble, then you can start rolling tubes. But consider your whole system.  You have to consider your source, and headphones in this as well.  Upgrading one of those might bring you more of what you may be lacking, but most important is to let it burn in for a few hundred hours, and get to know what you like about it. If you have any questions, or just want to add to the commentary please do. All are welcome to post, and no question is too insignificant to ask. Their is a lot of knowledge here on this thread, and people willing to share it. Hypnos1, has more knowledge than anyone else here, as he was in on the design and testing of the original amp. He worked closely with the Feliks family to get the Elise up and moving. He will be more than welcome to help out with any concerns you may have.  And if you see two or more different opinions on questions about the amps, if one is Hypnos1, his is the one to go with.  I have been with him since the early days of the Elise, and have number 0005 of the Euforia and he has never misguided me. So welcome and enjoy the ride.


@connieflyer I am grateful for your advise and sharing a bit of the amp's history. Definitely will get to know it quite awhile with stock tubes then post here for advice if needed. Really looking forward to the journey...and of course the enjoyment of music each step of the way.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK guys I mentioned about a special industry-changing dinosaur. Introducing HEDDphone One from Hedd.Audio, the first full-range Air Motion Transfer headphone. Full review here. While I tested the Euforia to *not *have enough juice to properly power it, this electrodynamic technology sounds breathtaking on other amps and I believe to be an emerging technology.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @LoryWiv ...and a belated welcome to Feliks Audio land (have been rather busy just lately!).

But it's nice to see all the helpful advice you've had already from the guys here and over at the Elise 'Impressions' thread. There is a mountain - several, actually! - of info in all the related threads, and if you can spare the time, a casual flip through now and again will enlighten you even further on many aspects of this wonderful hobby of ours. It is indeed a vast topic, and as @connieflyer mentioned in his (very flattering to me! ) welcome post, covers not just the amp and tubes but all the rest of the system's gear...including cables lol! So as cf said, take your time to get a 'handle' on the sound you experience before venturing too far in all these different directions...or else endless headaches and much indigestion lie therein!!...(but this is all part of the initiation process, to be sure, and experienced by all of us at some time or other lol ).

So yes, feel free to ask us about anything you're not sure with, and here's a link to the second Elise thread where I gave further links in the first post to threads that may interest you....if/when you find time! (the first post on the 'prototype' thread gives an insight into Elise's birth, if you're interested...) :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/

But most of all...ENJOY your Elise to the full - it's a great amp!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @LoryWiv ...and a belated welcome to Feliks Audio land (have been rather busy just lately!).
> 
> But it's nice to see all the helpful advice you've had already from the guys here and over at the Elise 'Impressions' thread. There is a mountain - several, actually! - of info in all the related threads, and if you can spare the time, a casual flip through now and again will enlighten you even further on many aspects of this wonderful hobby of ours. It is indeed a vast topic, and as @connieflyer mentioned in his (very flattering to me! ) welcome post, covers not just the amp and tubes but all the rest of the system's gear...including cables lol! So as cf said, take your time to get a 'handle' on the sound you experience before venturing too far in all these different directions...or else endless headaches and much indigestion lie therein!!...(but this is all part of the initiation process, to be sure, and experienced by all of us at some time or other lol ).
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, @hypnos1 I'm really impressed with how welcoming and knowledgable the F.A. community  is. Looking forward to getting my Elise next week and beginning the journey and asking (hopefully)  Intelligent questions once I've gained some experience. Thanks again for all the introductory input which should definitely get me off on the right track!


----------



## hypnos1

Sorry @DecentLevi , but I must confess to being somewhat perplexed at your recent comments re. the Empyrean headphones and Euforia...viz. only "fairly good on Euforia, but not as good as on other amps". Perhaps you can give more details as to the different partnering equipment used, for both Euforia and these other amps, and the length of time given to assessment...

To any folks possibly interested in these wonderful headphones, my own personal experience with them in my system has shown them to be every bit as good as @teknorob23 's recommendation... (and a look at his 'ex equipment' profile re. his experience of top end headphones is a good pointer! ).

But don't just take our word for it...the fact that Meze collaborated with Feliks-Audio (specifically the Euforia) in developing the Empyrean's sound gives further vindication, plus the encouraging words from one of the guys at Meze saying of my own system : *"Hugo2 + Euforia + Empyreans...a match made in Heaven".* To me personally, this confirms a product that is far beyond "fairly good", and one that can be wholeheartedly recommended lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## smeksime

DecentLevi said:


> @LoryWiv RE my previous post here
> 
> PS - if your F.A. order is not finalized yet, I recommend inquiring about their newest amp, the Euforia MK2 which is called "anniversary edition" version. Here was a quote about it from page 400, thanks to ConnieFlyer:
> 
> ...



Man... I just got a Euforia in the beginning of May via Upscale Audio. Any idea if it would be worth upgrading?


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 1, 2019)

4 (NOS Philips) EL39s as power pentodes, driven by Euforia with 4 EL38s...

While waiting for Colin’s EL39 adaptors for Euforia, installed the 39s as full powers with Mrs. Xuling EL34 ones...they biased perfectly in the power amp, and after some 30 hours of good burn-in in the power slots... well, what can I say ?

The EL38s are truly exceptional power tubes, enough to say that  (IMHO) they are clearly above the legendary EL34s... but the EL39s offered such an amazing sonic experience that it is difficult to describe it properly.  At this level of quality, we are talking about nuances or sonic “flavors” more than big differences,  and  the general character of the 39s was definitely less “warm” and on the neutral side of things, with tighter bass.  More like a “German ” than a “British” sound, maybe...

This is not to say better or worse, I do love the warmth of the EL38s (one of their outstanding virtues) and probably the reason why this setup sounded absolutely great.  The warmth of the preamp was  present, only nicely balanced, enhancing the sonic virtues of the output tubes.   A memorable experience...


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> If these are the wtb's your talking about then you should be okay: WBT - 0152Ag.



@teknorob23 You were right about the connectors:






By the way these cables look like a white weapon. I am not sure if I have enought distance from the wall to be able to connect them.


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## Scutey

h1's  adapters have arrived, beautifully made and packed, a BIG thank you to Colin, as I know you are very busy making them for eager Head-Fier's, speaking for myself, It has been very much appreciated!. Now time to get em cookin'.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23 You were right about the connectors:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Somewhere between a weapon and an anaconda, plus a total pig to work with and route behind kit. For that very reason i went with shorter cables an moved my Hugo2 nearer to the Euforia. The good news is that it should hopefully sound amazing... just 200 or so hours until you hear it at its best, but congratulations in the meantime


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> Somewhere between a weapon and an anaconda, plus a total pig to work with and route behind kit. For that very reason i went with shorter cables an moved my Hugo2 nearer to the Euforia. The good news is that it should hopefully sound amazing... just 200 or so hours until you hear it at its best, but congratulations in the meantime



I'll come back with some impressions. What provided you the biggest impact? Interconnects or the headhpone cable? I like a lot my Forza AudioWorks one but might try an silver/gold one on the future.


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## Scutey (Jul 1, 2019)

Not bad for 19 euro, as long as they work!, the Valvo appears to be NOS, so as long as you keep looking seems there might still be bargains to be had with the EL11.


----------



## hypnos1

smeksime said:


> Man... I just got a Euforia in the beginning of May via Upscale Audio. Any idea if it would be worth upgrading?


Hi smeksime.

Well done on getting the Euforia...great choice! That 'Anniversary Edition' sounds a real teaser, and cruel it should be just round the corner (hopefully! ).

 But given it's going to cost about another 30%, apparently, I suspect it would only be worth going for if you could swap your current amp for just the extra...if you liked the look of it, and were able to compare both that is. If not, and still interested, I would strongly advise waiting for other folks to do the comparison...(I might be in line for such a demo, along with independent reviewers perhaps...). In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your Euforia to the full! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I'll come back with some impressions. What provided you the biggest impact? Interconnects or the headhpone cable? I like a lot my Forza AudioWorks one but might try an silver/gold one on the future.



Well done on those cables OH...will be interested to hear your impressions. And Neotech UP-OCC silver with gold-wired headphone cable? Wow!...(your poor wallet lol! ). But as I mentioned a while back, it certainly did wonders for my pal's HD800s (v1)...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Not bad for 19 euro, as long as they work!, the Valvo appears to be NOS, so as long as you keep looking seems there might still be bargains to be had with the EL11.



Not bad, Scutey?...a _*steal*_, more like!! ...Well done! They look in marvellous condition, and I'm sure most - if not all - will perform perfectly also. Lucky you......(this sort of deal doesn't come along all that often, but does indeed pay to keep a sharp eye open - time permitting!! ).

And your EL39s look in wonderful condition...hope they sound as good as they look! I'm very impressed indeed with that stock of French RT tubes...a shame he didn't have any more lol ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> 4 (NOS Philips) EL39s as power pentodes, driven by Euforia with 4 EL38s...
> 
> While waiting for Colin’s EL39 adaptors for Euforia, installed the 39s as full powers with Mrs. Xuling EL34 ones...they biased perfectly in the power amp, and after some 30 hours of good burn-in in the power slots... well, what can I say ?
> 
> ...



Hi J...glad to see they work so well in the EL34 seats lol! And yes, they do indeed have a different 'flavour' to the 38. As powers in my Euforia setup, the differences are in fact more pronounced. I have described them enough in the past so won't repeat here, but they are overall not quite so 'warm', as you say...and the bass is definitely tighter and hits more solidly - both perfect traits for my Empyreans lol!  And dare I say it?...with better overall balance IMHO. Hope you enjoy them as much (if not more!) in your Euforia when your adapters arrive......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Not bad, Scutey?...a _*steal*_, more like!! ...Well done! They look in marvellous condition, and I'm sure most - if not all - will perform perfectly also. Lucky you......(this sort of deal doesn't come along all that often, but does indeed pay to keep a sharp eye open - time permitting!! ).
> 
> And your EL39s look in wonderful condition...hope they sound as good as they look! I'm very impressed indeed with that stock of French RT tubes...a shame he didn't have any more lol ...CJ


Yes they were a bit of a steal, there's always that slight apprehensive moment though until you try them, of course, but I have given all of them a quick test and they all sound very good and dead silent phew!, oh I also forgot to mention there was also another 10 tubes, all Telefunken, of various types, EF11, EM11, UF11, UL11, UM11. As for the EL39's only had just over an hour with them so not much time to really evaluate, but already they are a superb sounding tube, micro detailing and imaging is the best I've heard, hopefully I can get more time with them tomorrow, btw your adapters look so much more elegant than mrs X's, so cheers CJ! .


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 2, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Great Johnny, this should be interesting. Do you have the Euforia or Elise? If it pairs well with the Euforia (I haven't tried the pairing), you just may convince ME to get a pair too, LOL. Or if HD-579 doesn't work for you and your 7N7 recommendation doesn't work our for me, let's just say we're even  HAHa





DecentLevi said:


> Johnny have you gotten to try the Senn. HD 579's on your Euforia yet?



Hi @DecentLevi, and many thanks for your recommendation  of the Senn HD 579’s !!  It pairs just perfectly with my Euforia: as you said a lively, open presentation with sparkling highs, nice bass, and a lovely midrange...can you ask for more for $ 80 (incl. shipping) ??  An absolute bargain !!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey Johnny, glad to hear about the good pairing with your HD-579's. I remember hearing the headphones more like vivid, somewhat 'front row' and a great slam to the dynamics with soundstage that's good but a step behind the HD-600's. Very good it suits you that way. Now it makes me curious how it compares to other similar Sennheiser HD's on the Euforia such as HD-600 or 650 if you've ever tried those on the amp?
PS those are discontinued, as told from someone at Sennheiser at CanJam.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 3, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry @DecentLevi , but I must confess to being somewhat perplexed at your recent comments re. the Empyrean headphones and Euforia...viz. only "fairly good on Euforia, but not as good as on other amps". Perhaps you can give more details as to the different partnering equipment used, for both Euforia and these other amps, and the length of time given to assessment...
> 
> To any folks possibly interested in these wonderful headphones, my own personal experience with them in my system has shown them to be every bit as good as @teknorob23 's recommendation... (and a look at his 'ex equipment' profile re. his experience of top end headphones is a good pointer! ).
> 
> But don't just take our word for it...the fact that Meze collaborated with Feliks-Audio (specifically the Euforia) in developing the Empyrean's sound gives further vindication, plus the encouraging words from one of the guys at Meze saying of my own system : *"Hugo2 + Euforia + Empyreans...a match made in Heaven".* To me personally, this confirms a product that is far beyond "fairly good", and one that can be wholeheartedly recommended lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ



Well I don't want to encourage further upgrade-innitus so to speak, as I personally have no plans on going this way (not with the Euforia anyway), but here was my experience:
For a brief time at SoCal CanJam I tried the Meze Emypyrean headphones on the Euforia. I had to ask a vendor at another table to borrow them since they weren't at the table with F.A. amps and he was escorting me so it had to be a brief listen, maybe 2 min. at each of 3 amps. First off was the Euforia amp pairing, indeed sounded "fairly good". Mind you the Euforia itself was not up to full potential either using stock tubes and the only source was just a good DAP (forgot which model) via 3.5mm to RCA output. Definitely everything was 'there' and sounded right, and if that was the only thing around I could certainly have gotten used to the pairing and even become quite fond of it... but quite the opposite, myself being in a super CanJam filled to the max. with basically every current mid to top-tier flagship Headphone, DAC, amp - an audiophile's dream where we can experience first-hand what is really possible with sound reproduction without pre-condition or bias. So next up was the Prima Luma EVO 200 tube amp - though not their priciest model I was told that it's headphone output is on-par with their higher models which are more built to drive speakers. The difference with the PL 200 amp was immediately noticeable, taking me much deeper into the scene of the music... instead of 'observing' things in the recording you can actually 'taste' them - drums are real instead of simple being a good recording, to make an analogy, and a better performance with everything from instrument separation harder hitting dynamics, etc. These headphones scale well and these types of incrimental improvents are obvious when climbing up to higher amps. Next I tried them with the Quad PA One + amp (using internal DAC) which to me was quite unique: dynamics were possibly just as hard hitting as with the PL 200 amp costing almost 3x more and with a more vivid sound but not quite as detailed and a slower decay to the drums. To me this pairing may have been better than the Euforia in some ways, seeming like this amp has much more sheer power for a more dynamic / weighty experience but I do suppose the scale could tip either way with the Empyreans on the Euforia or the Quad PA One depending on source, tubes, etc.

I also tried the Empyreans with other amps such as WA33 and it came really close to being a showstopper, but as mentioned with the endless array of super hi-fi gems being at a Can Jam, even with cutting edge protoypes on hand I can tell you this with certianty: The Empyreans sounded better on the WA33 than former amps (more resolving, more of everything), however this experience is faint in my memory compared with: The new planar Headphones Rad-0 from Rosson Audio on the GSX-mini solid state amp drivin by Qutest + Mscaler which was bested by the Rangarok 2 amp + Yggdrasil 2 DAC with this headphone, which was also bested by what I currently with no reservations whatsoever consider the all-time current king: the divine, the sensational new breakthrough in "electrodynamic" technology known as HEDDphone One made by a German company who are making a solid entry into headphone production after 30 years of making speakers used in studios. This headphone blew me away even on mid-fi amps I tried it with such as the Quad PA One and especially with the PL 200 amp. A sound that's hard to put into words, just look at my post in recent pages here to my review of it. However as a Euforia owner I'm not recommending any of these as an "upgrade" path. The Rosson Audio Rad-0 did not have 'synergy' with the Euforia and the HEDDphone One was simply not driven loud enough even with the volume up all the way. Of these the most comparable is the Rad-0 to the Empyreans, as these are both planars of around the same general cost. I preferred the Rad-0 to the Emypryeans for a more 'coherent' sound somewhat more vivid, lush and engaging but certainly the Empyreans are resolving and do basically everything right and are by no means in-coherent, but my contrast the others had a more refined and modestly more laid back sound. These would rather be a side-grade than an upgrade if any at all since you would need to also replace to an amp with more raw juice to properly drive them.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 3, 2019)

Also since I already basically let the 'cat out of the bag' on the Quad PA One + amp I will point out a few more things:
It has substantially more power than the Euforia at least with the two headphones that it didn't drive well enough; being the HEDDphone One @ 38 ohms, and the Rad-0 at 29 ohms - these were driven well with room to spare on the Quad amp and sounding great enough to make me literally jump up and interrupt someone to take a listen (with the HEDDphone, which to me was comparable to the Orpheus II though not _exactly _on-par has one up on them for being transportable and scalable). It's not an OTL amp, which the existince of an output transformer may explain what I heard as possibly a slower decay and modest muddiness; yet sounding more resolving at the same time, oddly. I confirmed with the exhibitor it does not have the same quality internals as the Euforia, using what they described as quality copper wiring and though is assembled in China was designed in the UK. I would need a head-to-head to do a real comparison, but for anyone on the sidelines I can say that it's only 1/2 the cost of the Euforia and has a fairly decent internal DAC, FWIW. It takes two 6SN7 and two 6SL7 which are a 6SN7 with higher gain.
And this is the *+* version which is newest.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I'll come back with some impressions. What provided you the biggest impact? Interconnects or the headhpone cable? I like a lot my Forza AudioWorks one but might try an silver/gold one on the future.



Hi @OctavianH, sorry for the delay in coming back to you. This weeks been a bit hectic workwise, but I’ve also been pondering an answer as to which cable has the biggest impact. They’re all integral to a systems performance, but my short answer today at least is the HP cable makes the most immediately noticeable impact, followed by interconnect, then usb, then mains cables. However if the judging criteria is focusing on more on fundamental impact then perhaps the order would reverse. Big problem for me when comes to providing a conclusive answer just with my own preferences is that I’d need to test, cross check, every link In the chain and having recently upgraded nearly every part, the scale of this task makes me shake and I might have to leave it until I’ve retired (if that happens). It would be interesting to get anyone else’s thoughts on this, if for any reason other than to save my sanity 

As @hypnos1 mentioned that silver/gold UP-OCC in HP cable is very very good and it has had a big effect on my system. The depth alone, that it adds is something to be heard as it’s consequent effect on separation and layering. It is tonally natural with a lovely timbre. I’d definitely recommend it. But I’d also suggest trying and 8 core mix of silver and copper as it’s a slightly more dynamic, impactful full presentation with nearly same levels of detail retrieval. And that’s just with 24awg/28awg mix, so it you add more silver it might even outperform the silver/gold.

Obvs system synergy will have an impact but this neotech wire has very few weaknesses and seems pretty universal in its compatibility. Good news is I don’t think there’s a bad route here!


----------



## OctavianH

@teknorob23 Please do not loose time on this. My question was just a curiosity. The conclusion is that both HP cable and interconnects have a good impact on sound quality. Thanks a lot!


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23 Please do not loose time on this. My question was just a curiosity. The conclusion is that both HP cable and interconnects have a good impact on sound quality. Thanks a lot!





OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23 Please do not loose time on this. My question was just a curiosity. The conclusion is that both HP cable and interconnects have a good impact on sound quality. Thanks a lot!



You have opened pandora’s box now, because i need to know the answer!


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 3, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Well I don't want to encourage further upgrade-innitus so to speak, as I personally have no plans on going this way (not with the Euforia anyway), but here was my experience:
> For a brief time at SoCal CanJam I tried the Meze Emypyrean headphones on the Euforia. I had to ask a vendor at another table to borrow them since they weren't at the table with F.A. amps and he was escorting me so it had to be a brief listen, maybe 2 min. at each of 3 amps. First off was the Euforia amp pairing, indeed sounded "fairly good". Mind you the Euforia itself was not up to full potential either using stock tubes and the only source was just a good DAP (forgot which model) via 3.5mm to RCA output. Definitely everything was 'there' and sounded right, and if that was the only thing around I could certainly have gotten used to the pairing and even become quite fond of it... but quite the opposite, myself being in a super CanJam filled to the max. with basically every current mid to top-tier flagship Headphone, DAC, amp - an audiophile's dream where we can experience first-hand what is really possible with sound reproduction without pre-condition or bias. So next up was the Prima Luma EVO 200 tube amp - though not their priciest model I was told that it's headphone output is on-par with their higher models which are more built to drive speakers. The difference with the PL 200 amp was immediately noticeable, taking me much deeper into the scene of the music... instead of 'observing' things in the recording you can actually 'taste' them - drums are real instead of simple being a good recording, to make an analogy, and a better performance with everything from instrument separation harder hitting dynamics, etc. These headphones scale well and these types of incrimental improvents are obvious when climbing up to higher amps. Next I tried them with the Quad PA One + amp (using internal DAC) which to me was quite unique: dynamics were possibly just as hard hitting as with the PL 200 amp costing almost 3x more and with a more vivid sound but not quite as detailed and a slower decay to the drums. To me this pairing may have been better than the Euforia in some ways, seeming like this amp has much more sheer power for a more dynamic / weighty experience but I do suppose the scale could tip either way with the Empyreans on the Euforia or the Quad PA One depending on source, tubes, etc.
> 
> I also tried the Empyreans with other amps such as WA33 and it came really close to being a showstopper, but as mentioned with the endless array of super hi-fi gems being at a Can Jam, even with cutting edge protoypes on hand I can tell you this with certianty: The Empyreans sounded better on the WA33 than former amps (more resolving, more of everything), however this experience is faint in my memory compared with: The new planar Headphones Rad-0 from Rosson Audio on the GSX-mini solid state amp drivin by Qutest + Mscaler which was bested by the Rangarok 2 amp + Yggdrasil 2 DAC with this headphone, which was also bested by what I currently with no reservations whatsoever consider the all-time current king: the divine, the sensational new breakthrough in "electrodynamic" technology known as HEDDphone One made by a German company who are making a solid entry into headphone production after 30 years of making speakers used in studios. This headphone blew me away even on mid-fi amps I tried it with such as the Quad PA One and especially with the PL 200 amp. A sound that's hard to put into words, just look at my post in recent pages here to my review of it. However as a Euforia owner I'm not recommending any of these as an "upgrade" path. The Rosson Audio Rad-0 did not have 'synergy' with the Euforia and the HEDDphone One was simply not driven loud enough even with the volume up all the way. Of these the most comparable is the Rad-0 to the Empyreans, as these are both planars of around the same general cost. I preferred the Rad-0 to the Emypryeans for a more 'coherent' sound somewhat more vivid, lush and engaging but certainly the Empyreans are resolving and do basically everything right and are by no means in-coherent, but my contrast the others had a more refined and modestly more laid back sound. These would rather be a side-grade than an upgrade if any at all since you would need to also replace to an amp with more raw juice to properly drive them.



Thanks for your more detailed info DL...but it simply highlights the points of contention lol! ...viz :

1. Any serious head-fier will attest to the fact that judgment of any gear at such shows can only ever - at best - be a mild indication of a product's qualities. There are far too many impeding factors involved, from partnering gear (and cables) to the venue itself.

2. 2 to 3 minutes' testing of each? Nowhere near enough to get any true and proper result, I'm afraid. Any professional reviewer would spend _weeks_ undertaking such a mammoth task as you set yourself.

3. I don't doubt that the Empyreans can sound even better in something like the WA33...but at $8000 to $15000, so it should! Not a fair comparison, by any means!

Of course you're entitled to your own opinion DL, but it's neither just nor fair to both Meze and Feliks Audio to make such bold statements as only "fairly good", especially without emphasising strongly the limitations to the process of assessment as previously mentioned. I personally would rather take Meze's own findings on their partnering with Euforia...as I suspect others would also, who may be interested! 

ps. I make these points solely in the interests of not only your own credibility in assessments of important gear other than tube rolling in the public domain, but that of head-fi.org itself...especially in the eyes of such not-so-'Friendsly' wink sites where you would have been fed to the wolves long since!! ...(we've been here before a while ago now alas, remember?!)...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 3, 2019)

I can't strongly enough agree with CJ on the analysis of this mini headphones with so many various sources an amplification all at the same time trying to complete it in a two-day period. The fact that you need a lot more time with each phone and system and systems that are running at their Peak and not with just something the vendor through together to bring to the show leaves me cold. I have been doing this for many many many years and I can truthfully tell you that listening to a pair of headphones even on the same exact system takes time to hear the subtle nuances and develop a Synergy with what you're listening to. Just recently I went back to the original tubes on the efuoria using my Sennheiser 800 Gungnir multi-bit DAC premium interconnects, Draug 3 headphone cable and high-quality Source material. I was quite surprised how nice the original tubes did sound in the efuoria. They really did sound good. But not what I was used to hearing, so started substituting power tubes, and different drivers finally in the middle of the night ended up back with the el 39 driving the mesh plate el11 and everything that I had come to know about this music finally came back together. There was nothing missing, there was nothing that I was tired of hearing, there was both the excitement the slam and the quiet symphonic nuances that I had come to appreciate and love with this combination, mind you with each combination I listened to for quite some time to allow burn in both in the equipment and in my head. I would listen to each separate combination until I felt there was something missing something, that I'd heard before but could not really put my finger on it at the moment. Mind you I was up until 4 a.m. this morning before finally deciding that the best that I had heard on my system was the el 39 and el 11 mesh plates. It proved to me once again that the Euforia scales so well and does a very Workman like job to whatever it is used with it. I cannot speak to the Mezes Emypyrean I would have to agree with CJ then if a vendor that is trying to sell those headphones teams up with one of the Feliks amps they must believe in their own testing that it is a very good combination. Headphone listening app comparing can be done similarly to a date with a beautiful woman. It must go slowly, relaxed a bit and listen for the excitement, mind you that last part is from memory that sadly is starting to fail! Been too long! So in summing this dissertation up just let me say try various combinations for a good while of time before you reject something out of hand. I don't expect you to run out and buy all the equipment that I have just to see if it's true or not take your time experiment a little bit, but do so a little at a time and take your time for each part to burn in system gets used to each other and it develops into a cohesive unit.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yes they were a bit of a steal, there's always that slight apprehensive moment though until you try them, of course, but I have given all of them a quick test and they all sound very good and dead silent phew!, oh I also forgot to mention there was also another 10 tubes, all Telefunken, of various types, EF11, EM11, UF11, UL11, UM11. As for the EL39's only had just over an hour with them so not much time to really evaluate, but already they are a superb sounding tube, *micro detailing and imaging is the best I've heard*, hopefully I can get more time with them tomorrow, btw your adapters look so much more elegant than mrs X's, so cheers CJ! .



Hi Scutey. Yes indeed...along with their other great qualities, that fine detail has continued to develop even after a good many hours' burn-in (courtesy of testing all those adapters lol! ). Quite uncanny, actually... And thanks for the compliments btw...




teknorob23 said:


> Hi @OctavianH, sorry for the delay in coming back to you. This weeks been a bit hectic workwise, but I’ve also been pondering an answer as to which cable has the biggest impact. They’re all integral to a systems performance, but my short answer today at least is the HP cable makes the most immediately noticeable impact, followed by interconnect, then usb, then mains cables. However if the judging criteria is focusing on more on fundamental impact then perhaps the order would reverse. Big problem for me when comes to providing a conclusive answer just with my own preferences is that I’d need to test, cross check, every link In the chain and having recently upgraded nearly every part, the scale of this task makes me shake and I might have to leave it until I’ve retired (if that happens). It would be interesting to get anyone else’s thoughts on this, if for any reason other than to save my sanity
> 
> As @hypnos1 mentioned that silver/gold UP-OCC in HP cable is very very good and it has had a big effect on my system. The depth alone, that it adds is something to be heard as it’s consequent effect on separation and layering. It is tonally natural with a lovely timbre. I’d definitely recommend it. *But I’d also suggest trying and 8 core mix of silver and copper as it’s a slightly more dynamic, impactful full presentation with nearly same levels of detail retrieval.* *And* *that’s just with 24awg/28awg mix, so it you add more silver it might even outperform the silver/gold.*
> 
> Obvs system synergy will have an impact but this neotech wire has very few weaknesses and seems pretty universal in its compatibility. Good news is I don’t think there’s a bad route here!



I agree tr with the difficulty in knowing just what is having the biggest impact on sound when multiple upgrades have been made close to each other. In my own case, the most immediate improvement came when replacing my standard multi mains extension lead with the PowerInspired Mains Regenerator...truly a revelation! Then, further down the line, better ICs brought noticeable improvement, followed by headphone cable upgrade. Can't say for sure which of these two had the most immediate impact however. As you say, to try and backtrack and swap so many possible combinations for testing would be an almost impossible task...and life's too short lol!! 

Re. the (wonderful) Neotech UP-OCC wire combo for hp cables, I personally have always preferred to mix solid silver with solid copper (NOT silver-plated copper!)...great dynamics and full-bloodied performance. And I'm sure it's the copper that really helps bass dig down deep and strong. In addition, I believe that using different gauges of silver wire - as in their 'XLR' IC cable, and used by makers of hyper-expensive cables - helps in retrieving that last bit of micro detail. Hence I made my own hp cable using 24AWG and 26AWG silver, and 24AWG copper wires. So impressed in fact that I made a _second_ one, so as to be able to A/B another amp - hopefully the Anniversary Edition Euforia - my original one being connected direct to Euforia's internal wiring...for better or worse lol! 

On the subject of bass response, the further burn-in during the recent mammoth adapter testing has also brought a surprising development in this area. The EL39's superior bass handling has morphed in a way I've never experienced before...from initial impressive solidity, depth and impact to a refinement that's very difficult to describe fully. 

Coming back to my stalwart test track - 'Battle' from Gladiator's soundtrack - the amazing dynamism of the multiple bass lines is still hard-hitting, but somehow in a more subtle way, with more impressive control and ultimately _more _overall impact. Wasn't expecting this development...helped in no small way by the 12-core UP-OCC hp cable, no doubt lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Hope your own 39s are coming along nicely...


----------



## Johnnysound

Hi @hypnos1, are these the famous “mesh plates” ?  This is a used TFK tube....


----------



## barontan2418 (Jul 3, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @hypnos1, are these the famous “mesh plates” ?  This is a used TFK tube....



Hope do, I have one like that dating back to the thirties I believe.


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @hypnos1, are these the famous “mesh plates” ?  This is a used TFK tube....


Any time yet to date the tubes? I am curious about the black  ST EL11 tubes which I haven’t seen before .


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## LoryWiv (Jul 3, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> ...the best that I had heard on my system was the el 39 and el 11 mesh plates.


I am a brand new Elise owner, just received yesterday and super excited to set it up in my chain this holiday weekend. Per excellent advise in this forum don't plan to tube roll until I settle in w/the amp for several months. However, as I begin my learning curve and journey, I am interested in whether it's correct that EL tubes generate significantly less heat, since  I am a bit worried about heat generation as we often have grandchildren at the house, I do plan to use a small, quiet fan and experiment w/placement of Elise to minimize access to small fingers, but would appreciate other's experience as to what I might consider next if heat is problematic (EL tubes, socket savers, even drastic stuff like a mesh plain wire or Faraday cage if EMF proves to be an issue).

Thoughts from the Feliks Audio cognoscenti much appreciated, and Happy 4th!


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## mordy (Jul 3, 2019)

Hi LW,
I don't have the EL39 tubes, but I do have the EL11 tubes and they run very cool - no danger in burning your fingers in touching them.
However, I would worry about little curious fingers touching the tubes because of breakage and even worse, pushing them partially out of the sockets and causing loud pops and static which could damage headphones and speakers.
Your best bet is to find a place for the amp out of reach of little children. Re ventilation, as long as you have 2-3 feet of air above the amp it should be enough. If the amp is placed on an equipment rack or between shelves, a little 4" PC fan drawing away the air from the amp will lower the chassis temperature at least 10 degrees.
Socket savers save the amp sockets from wear and tear and also act as insulators, lowering the chassis temperature.
Good luck and welcome to the Forum!


----------



## LoryWiv

Thank you, @mordy . If I elect to go in the EL direction is there a specific resource for adapters?

Also, any thoughts about whether placing the Elise on a desk where a wireless router is also present will produce audible interference? I've heard "yes" and "no" so am a bit confused.

Most importantly, thank you for the nice welcome. Please let me know if my posts should be to the FA Elise thread instead of here, but this thread seems to be far more "where the action is!"


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## DecentLevi (Jul 4, 2019)

Hi guys RE my meet impressions that I expanded on after being inquired on it.

Trying things at a meet, being essentially a huge convention with a nearly endless arsenal of possibilities, limited time and people waiting - spending a lengthy amount of time with any system isn't feasible. The best one can do at a meet is get a mini snapshot of the sound, or a brief impression. What I could have done was to emphasize these were from meet conditions and certainly not the end all / be all results since results can vary based on components in the chain, burn in, and preferences. I will however say that in my deep experience, the performance of any gear _generally _stays consistent. An amp + headphone pairing that for an abstract example sounds muddy, dark and non-detailed is never going to morph into a linear, punchy and detailed sound no matter how much time it has to sound burn in. Rather there could be subtle, incremental differences or bigger differences switching amps. Certain differences on headphone pairings with an amp are immediately noticeable within the first seconds, such as the transient response or 'snap' of a drum sounding more clear on one headphone than another; to report for this for instance as headphone A is snappier than headphone B on such amp after just a super-brief try can be a solid initial assessment because the two sounds are not likely to swap each other in performance any time soon.

We do and have already in fact agreed on a few things with my recent experience. One being that the said Empyreans do scale with higher gear, hence my positive but not endgame-ish impression of the pairing with Euforia in contrast to higher amps. Me and several other users also agreed the stock tubes on the Euforia do sound decent as well, along with me and another user (Johnny) agree about the HD-579 headphones. Furthermore I did indeed mention about the limitations of the specific chains I had to work with in this comparison: the Euforia was not up to full spec being with stock tubes and without a proper DAC (just a DAP which is a hi-res portable music player)... who knows maybe not even fully burned in either. So yes, results can improve to swing the performance from one amp to another depending on the environment, but only to a certain extent of difference. But given the allotted time and environment we have to work with (which also there _are _brief periods of relative silence at meets), we do the best we can on brief impressions on what we have to work with at a meet.

I do sill have my Euforia rig and it has stood the test of time nevertheless, bringing great experiences every time I try it.


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @hypnos1, are these the famous “mesh plates” ?  This is a used TFK tube....



Hi J.

To tell the truth, I've never seen a plate of that design/shape...is it an ST-shaped EL11? And black? But from the look of the plate's top, I'd say it's definitely _woven_ mesh (the best!), not stamped/perforated. Interested to hear what you think of it...


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> I am a brand new Elise owner, just received yesterday and super excited to set it up in my chain this holiday weekend. Per excellent advise in this forum don't plan to tube roll until I settle in w/the amp for several months. However, as I begin my learning curve and journey, I am interested in whether it's correct that EL tubes generate significantly less heat, since  I am a bit worried about heat generation as we often have grandchildren at the house, I do plan to use a small, quiet fan and experiment w/placement of Elise to minimize access to small fingers, but would appreciate other's experience as to what I might consider next if heat is problematic (EL tubes, socket savers, even drastic stuff like a mesh plain wire or Faraday cage if EMF proves to be an issue).
> 
> Thoughts from the Feliks Audio cognoscenti much appreciated, and Happy 4th!



Hi LW.

The EL family of tubes do indeed have the amp itself running just barely warm...when used in both the driver and power seats. _*However*_, the power tubes themselves will still be very hot and must not be touched. So, as @mordy said, safer to put the amp out of childrens' reach if possible, or construct some kind of 'cage'. There shouldn't be any need for it to be a 'Faraday'...you'd be very unlucky to get interference from nearby equipment, but it does occasionally happen to some folks. Only trial will tell.

If you do try the EL tubes as powers also later on, I would suggest the EL38 (an excellent tube), as adapters are available from xulingmrs : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...957233?hash=item2f2697fab1:g:jMQAAOSwi3xb9jks
The EL39 is even better, but now hard to find at a good price, and no adapters available commercially...I had to make them for folks (and need a rest now, I'm afraid! ).

Whatever, I'm sure you'll enjoy your experiments with Elise, and please keep us informed as to progress...either here or the Elise 'Impressions' thread - or both lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## LoryWiv

Much appreciated, @hypnos1 !


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## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Much appreciated, @hypnos1 !



No probs LW. And if you do want to give the EL38s a try in the future, and prices are silly, I might well have a spare one or two......CJ


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## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Much appreciated, @hypnos1 !


Regarding RFI I would not worry about a router but portable phones and fluorescent and LED lights can cause interference.
It’s a case of trial and error . Sometimes moving the object a little or plugging it into a different receptacle helps.
Hopefully you won’t have any problems at all!


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## LoryWiv (Jul 4, 2019)

It's on! Just put the Feliks Elise into my chain driving Auteur, retired the iFi iCan Pro. For any Auteur owners who think it's bass shy, pairing with this OTL tube amp quickly dispels that myth. Definitely more bass presence, well-controlled and of excellent quality with no bloom or bleed, perfect quantity for my preference. Other 1st impressions are that Elise-Auteur combination is highly musical and engaging, with forward and euphonic mids. It is also quite forgiving of lower quality recordings. Potential trade-offs versus iCan Pro driving Auteur so far include less extended treble and smaller stage width / height (depth seems excellent), and perhaps a touch less micro-detail retrieval. Of course the Elise only has < 5 hours on it, stock tubes, and I'm looking forward to burn in, assessing for changes, and eventually, perhaps some tube rolling.

Any specific changes should I expect as Elise burns in next 30-50 hours?


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## mordy (Jul 5, 2019)

The Elise will sound better and better with burn-in, but needs about 150 hours for this process.
I have an early production model and don't know how much has changed (if anything) with current production.
You may want to do a no cost tweak: A drop of white correction fluid in the little indentation on the volume control for easier identification of the volume setting.


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## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> The Elise will sound better and better with burn-in, but needs about 150 hours for this process.
> 
> You may want to do a no cost tweak: A drop of white correction fluid in the little indentation on the volume control for easier identification of the volume setting.



I may, but for now I can't stop listening!  Really immersive experience.


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## hypnos1 (Jul 5, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> It's on! Just put the Feliks Elise into my chain driving Auteur, retired the iFi iCan Pro. For any Auteur owners who think it's bass shy, pairing with this OTL tube amp quickly dispels that myth. Definitely more bass presence, well-controlled and of excellent quality with no bloom or bleed, perfect quantity for my preference. Other 1st impressions are that Elise-Auteur combination is highly musical and engaging, with forward and euphonic mids. It is also quite forgiving of lower quality recordings. Potential trade-offs versus iCan Pro driving Auteur so far include less extended treble and smaller stage width / height (depth seems excellent), and perhaps a touch less micro-detail retrieval. Of course the Elise only has < 5 hours on it, stock tubes, and I'm looking forward to burn in, assessing for changes, and eventually, perhaps some tube rolling.
> 
> Any specific changes should I expect as Elise burns in next 30-50 hours?



Great news LW...and glad you're impressed with Elise already. It really is very early days yet, and those areas you mentioned as lacking, along with a good few others, will most definitely alter and improve quite substantially with many more hours on both the amp and tubes. The entire presentation will open up nicely, with much more 'holographic' soundstage and more precise separation/placement/imaging. Treble should also develop more. Mind you, the extent of these changes will be somewhat less than what usually comes from 'better' tubes...but that's for a bit later lol?!  As folks have already said, give yourself plenty of time to get your head - not just your ears! - round what you're hearing, and ENJOY! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Just a word of advice...be careful with posting in multiple threads. Head-fi.org don't allow double posting of the exact same post I'm afraid...got my own knuckles rapped once a long while ago!!


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Great news LW...and glad you're impressed with Elise already. It really is very early days yet, and those areas you mentioned as lacking, along with a good few others, will most definitely alter and improve quite substantially with many more hours on both the amp and tubes. The entire presentation will open up nicely, with much more 'holographic' soundstage and more precise separation/placement/imaging. Treble should also develop more. Mind you, the extent of these changes will be somewhat less than what usually comes from 'better' tubes...but that's for a bit later lol?!  As folks have already said, give yourself plenty of time to get your head - not just your ears! - round what you're hearing, and ENJOY! ...CHEERS!...CJ
> 
> ps. Just a word of advice...be careful with posting in multiple threads. Head-fi.org don't allow double posting of the exact same post I'm afraid...got my own knuckles rapped once a long while ago!!



Appreciate the double post-advice...I may need my knuckles later for tube rolling and other crucial activities. Shall I just post here despite it being Euforia thread?


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Appreciate the double post-advice...I may need my knuckles later for tube rolling and other crucial activities. Shall I just post here despite it being Euforia thread?



Hi again LW.

It's great to hear from you here, but in fairness to less active Elise folks, it might be best to make your main posts in the Elise thread, but still give us a nod...best of both worlds lol! ...CJ


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## hypnos1

Now then guys. I promised @connieflyer I would let him know the results of trying my past love as driver to the EL39 powers.- the highly regarded C3g. But thought I'd post here for others also. In addition, I tried (very briefly!) just one silver-banded Philips EL38 as driver along with my mesh-plated Valvo EL11.

Anyway, in short, the C3g obviously doesn't synergise well with the El39...which is rather disappointing actually . I also experienced something that I myself have very seldom been cursed with - ie. as touched on a while ago, inexplicable bass distortion which really doesn't make much sense. For some strange reason, this happened with a C3g in the _left_ channel, but not the _right..._crazy! Which just confirms the advice that was given by others...ie. if encountering such an anomaly, just keep trying different combinations to see what finally works well! 

As for using EL38s as drivers to the 39s as powers, even just one in the seat was too much for me at least, and in my own particular system. As @Johnnysound has mentioned before, this is a full-on, _extremely_ dynamic presentation. Which is great if one's ears and/or system like/need this, but otherwise will probably not suit lol! At first the enhanced bass and lower mids can sound exciting, but eventually it can dominate overall proceedings far too much for my own liking. Putting back the other mesh EL11 straight away highlighted a more balanced/refined/controlled sound, along with greater holographic stage. But as usual, different partnering gear, including cables, will influence the degree of such changes...trial and error is the order of the day! ...

For me, the real magic still comes from the EL39s being driven by the EL11...perfect synergy (even more so than with the EL38s as powers IMHO...). HAPPY LISTENING! everyone...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hello CJ gamma glad you got a chance to drive the c3g and it was kind of like I thought it would be not a great combination. On the other hand I did try two of the Dario El 38 as drivers this morning and the e l 39 as power. This turns out to be an extremely Dynamic pairing and it may be too much for some folks. However with my setup with the Sennheiser 800 it does not seem overpowering as of yet. But truthfully I only have about one hour on this so time will tell. But the El 11s are in a padded safe place should I have to go back to them in a hurry!


----------



## connieflyer

Nice


----------



## ZRW0

@hypnos1 's adapters finally made their way and arrived yesterday.
I set them up today, and had a first listening session (almost 3h).

I'm totally amazed EL39s make such a huge difference !


My new audio H-E-A-V-E-N !

Thanks again CJ !


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Regarding RFI I would not worry about a router but portable phones and fluorescent and LED lights can cause interference.
> It’s a case of trial and error . Sometimes moving the object a little or plugging it into a different receptacle helps.
> Hopefully you won’t have any problems at all!



Well, this thread has already been of great help. Took a work call from portable (not cell) phone this morning, set it down at my desk when done and went to listen music. DEFINITE RFI interference, easily solved by returning the phone to it's cradle 2 feet away. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Well, this thread has already been of great help. Took a work call from portable (not cell) phone this morning, set it down at my desk when done and went to listen music. DEFINITE RFI interference, easily solved by returning the phone to it's cradle 2 feet away. Thanks for the heads up!


I solved the problem with RFI from a portable phone in a different way. Tired of all the phone calls from telemarketers, we finally gave up the land line after 40 years. Both my wife and myself have cell phones, and it was mainly psychologically difficult to give up a phone number you have had for so many years, but I don't miss it now.


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> @hypnos1 's adapters finally made their way and arrived yesterday.
> I set them up today, and had a first listening session (almost 3h).
> 
> I'm totally amazed EL39s make such a huge difference !
> ...



Glad those adapters finally arrived Erwan...was getting worried lol! And even more glad you too are liking the EL39s...makes all the hard work worthwhile . And as usual, things can only get even better with more burn-in ...HAPPY LISTENING!


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## hypnos1 (Jul 5, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Nice



WOW cf...that would certainly blow _my_ mind lol!!...(or should I say, my _head!!_). But nice to hear it's good for you...look forward to your findings after long sessions!  (I suspect there are few combinations that can beat those glorious tubes..._anywhere!!_  I regard them both as a 'piece de resistance', and mark the end of my search...which brings a sigh - or two! - of relief not only to myself, but others too no doubt!!   ).


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## connieflyer

Another two hours under the phones and this sound is very substantial.  Probably the difference in phones, the Senns not being as warm as the Meze.  Listening  to Two Steps From Hell, and they are right in your face. No shrinking violets here! Lots of power, and lower mids are there in spades.  So far liking it quite well.  And I agree, I think I am done with tube search.


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## Johnnysound (Jul 6, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Now then guys. I promised @connieflyer I would let him know the results of trying my past love as driver to the EL39 powers.- the highly regarded C3g. But thought I'd post here for others also. In addition, I tried (very briefly!) just one silver-banded Philips EL38 as driver along with my mesh-plated Valvo EL11.
> 
> Anyway, in short, the C3g obviously doesn't synergise well with the El39...which is rather disappointing actually . I also experienced something that I myself have very seldom been cursed with - ie. as touched on a while ago, inexplicable bass distortion which really doesn't make much sense. For some strange reason, this happened with a C3g in the _left_ channel, but not the _right..._crazy! Which just confirms the advice that was given by others...ie. if encountering such an anomaly, just keep trying different combinations to see what finally works well!
> 
> ...



Well, I have been posting my impressions about EL38s as triodes in Euforia (preamp mode) and as power pentodes, and while various combos on either side can sound really great,  the full 38s setup is simply spectacular  with speakers.

The  synergy between pre and power tubes was... absolute, natural (being the same tubes in different roles) and the pairing gave a sense of unity, of purpose, of grandeur in a big scale, sounding with the coherence, the impact, the _greatness_ of a single tube amp of the very highest grade.

To be honest, I felt lucky just being there...and yes, an extremely dynamic presentation that somehow was balanced with the full setup: never  over the top, but soaring highs, sweet mids and the very deepest, _serious_ bass I have ever heard from any amp, SS or tube.  Now enter the quartet of EL39s
in power mode, I think a very valid test since they are, well, power pentodes !!  As said before, very neutral, revealing, highly accurate and refined tubes, and the only ones that I know of at the same level of the 38s, albeit with a different “flavor”.

In headphone duties the history was different.  With my new open back  Senns, now I understand why H1 found some problems with the 38s quartet...they will overwhelm most cans, specially in the bass...for moments,  I felt like they would blow the thin membranes of the cans.  But not only the bass, within the ultra sensitive, hyper defined rendition of good cans, the 38s ebullient, extrovert nature may be too much.  Anyway, a problem in some setups may be a blessing in others...so I found the criticism of the EL38s somewhat unfounded.  These are world class triodes, with extreme extension, and if your gear can’t handle them,  maybe the tubes are not to blame...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Well, I have been posting my impressions about EL38s as triodes in Euforia (preamp mode) and as power pentodes, and while various combos on either side can sound really great,  the full 38s setup is simply spectacular  with speakers.
> 
> The  synergy between pre and power tubes was... absolute, natural (being the same tubes in different roles) and the pairing gave a sense of unity, of purpose, of grandeur in a big scale, sounding with the coherence, the impact, the _greatness_ of a single tube amp of the very highest grade.
> 
> ...



Yo J...4x EL38s in our headphone amps will certainly - as usual! - deliver differently according to the rest of the setup. When I first trialed them as fours, I was blown away...but that was with my Beyer T1s. Different story with my Empyreans lol!  So, certainly worth a try for anyone with four of these beauties. And, of course, I suspect that they will be performing more to optimum in your speaker amp, given it's already configured for EL pentode tubes. However, it still amazes me how they can be performing so well (triode-strapped) in our F-A amps...much not only to our own astonishment, but also that of F-A themselves!! 

I'm looking forward to how you find the 39s doing duties in your Euforia. Glad to say they seem to be getting full marks so far...

At the end of the day, I firmly believe that the 38s and 39s will grace any Euforia (or Elise!) system - in one combination or another - and am happy to regard these tubes as my luckiest (and best) finds ever in all the years of experimentation for alternatives to stock. But let's not forget the EL32/CV1052/VT52 (not the American, direct-heated 52!!). I still rate these as exceptional tubes, and an incredible bargain at the price...especially the ridiculously cheap straight-sided Mullard CV1052.

And so am delighted to _finally_ admit to myself that no further experimentation is needed, even though a part of me will miss the excitement that can come from such a venture lol ...Happy listening to all...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Right then guys, just a quick mention of something I've spoken about many times before, but it's always nice to get further confirmation.

Y'all know by now of my hatred of connectors throughout our hi-fi systems, even though an essential necessity unfortunately...for most folks. There's no doubt whatsoever that _*in a highly resolving system especially,*_ they *do* degrade the sound...hence really serious enthusiasts will search high and low for the best possible ones at all junctions in the system.
My latest reminder has just come from reattaching my headphone cable that's connected directly to Euforia's internal wiring, using the exact same cable construction as the second, terminated in a 6.3 mm jack plug. Bypassing the amp's hp socket and cable plug brings noticeable improvement in overall sound, from increased tonal range to spatial presentation. Bass hits even more solidly and cleanly, with any tendency to treble sibilance in certain recordings tempered nicely. The latter especially was highlighted even more as the Empyrean's new mini XLR plugs (and solder) had more burn-in time.

I realise this is something most folks couldn't, or wouldn't want to undertake, but it confirms my belief that in similar  systems, it therefore follows unequivocally that :

a. High quality cables need high quality connectors, as well as the best wire possible/affordable.
b. Keeping any necessary adapters to an absolute minimum _must _reduce sound degradation, especially if they don't have top quality wire in them!

However, of course, much will also depend on the quality of the rest of the system...top class sound can*not* be achieved on the cheap. Therein lies unavoidable compromise. The only real exception to this universal truth that I personally have found in my years in this hobby of ours is in the area of...*tubes lol!!* But even then, it's only by fortuitous circumstance that I myself have found some that punch way above their cost...until their merits become more widely known, that is, and cost/availability alter dramatically alas!! .
Here endeth the lesson ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Jul 7, 2019)

Another four or five hours with the El 39 powers and EL 38's as drivers and this time mostly vocals, at first I thought it might be too much of a good thing, but after a half hour it kind of grew on me.  I really believe these will be the end of the line for me with Euforia.  I just don't see it getting any better.  If in need of a softer, more gentle presence for vocals the El 11's are hard to beat. Either way, the El family is tops in my opinion.  Thanks again to CJ, for his experimentation with these beauties. Afraid if I should want to hear anything better than the way my system sounds, will have to start over, with all new equipment and a whole lot more money.  With out sounding like a broken record, I have to agree with CJ that the price we pay for better gear in the sound train will bring benefits that make the pocket book lighter. With an amp in this class, with the proper gear, to limit noise, and transients the rewards with tube swapping is even more apparent.


----------



## Mh996

Happy to announce that I’ve joined the club. I have a Euforia arriving on Thursday. I think I’m going to enjoy with stock tubes for the first month before experimenting with tubes. Excited to parse through this forum to hear all the recommendations.


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## Johnnysound (Jul 8, 2019)

Mix & match:  EL38, TFK EL11 “black glass”, RFT EL11, early black plates Mullard EL38.  And yes, @hypnos1, the East German sounds great.  Swapped EL11s channels and the difference with the TFK was minimal (if any),  maybe I felt the RFT a *little* bit more lively sounding in the highs ( which is good for me).   The whole mix sounded excellent...and I liked the “right channel” (LOL).    The old EL38 probably contributed to it...


----------



## connieflyer

Welcome Mh996,  I am sure you will enjoy the Euforia, a great amp.  Give yourself more than a couple of weeks, to let the tubes and amp burn in and get stable before you go tube rolling. You have to know what it sounds like to you before you try other tubes.  See what you like about the stock tubes, as they are quite good.  Good luck.


----------



## DecentLevi

Mh996 said:


> Happy to announce that I’ve joined the club. I have a Euforia arriving on Thursday. I think I’m going to enjoy with stock tubes for the first month before experimenting with tubes. Excited to parse through this forum to hear all the recommendations.


Welcome Mh996. I presume you have the Euforia 'v2' which is the 2018 version, or do you have the new Anniversary Edition?


----------



## hypnos1

Another lucky owner of a first class amp...well done and WELCOME to the club @Mh996 . I'm sure you have many happy hours' listening soon to enjoy. And once settled it, the _work_ sets in lol! ...ie. fun and games exploring the big, wide world of *tubes!!* ...but we'll let you take it easy for a while first...plenty of thread reading to pick up some pointers (hope you have lots of spare time though! )....CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Mix & match:  EL38, TFK EL11 “black glass”, RFT EL11, early black plates Mullard EL38.  And yes, @hypnos1, the East German sounds great.  Swapped EL11s channels and the difference with the TFK was minimal (if any),  maybe I felt the RFT a *little* bit more lively sounding in the highs ( which is good for me).   The whole mix sounded excellent...and I liked the “right channel” (LOL).    The old EL38 probably contributed to it...



Nice combo there J. Those RFTs are indeed very good tubes, and every bit as good (if not better in some eyes) as the TFKs IMHO...and certainly more reliable, it would appear (especially than the 'milky' coated TFK!).

And yes, the early black plate 'balloon' EL38 is indeed a step up from the later clear glass Mullard, as @connieflyer will attest!, . But it is a much more delicate animal, alas...even though it's _sound _is more robust (but also refined...a very special tube, surpassed in my system only by the silver-banded Philips/Dario/RT versions and, of course, the superb EL39!


----------



## Scutey

These EL39 are not just excellent powering EL tubes they seem to be equally good with 6SN7 (type) tubes too, the last couple days I've been using them with the Ken Rad VT99 in the driver seat, they give a wonderfull, robust sound, bass is deep, meaty and powerful and fairly well controlled, mids are very detailed and, I guess, due to the 39 a little less lush but very detailed, highs are well extended and without harshness, lots of decay on cymbals etc, next on my list to try are Ps vane CV 181 and RCA VT231 coated glass.


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## connieflyer (Jul 9, 2019)

Doing a little tube rolling also.  EL 39 will stay in the power slots, and roll drivers.  This morning trying the Ken-Rad Vt-231 black glass.  So far another nice presentation.  Some may not like the increase in bass with some phones.  With the Senn 800, I am impressed. Listened to some Audiogon high def files.  First up was Mozart Ave Vernum, and what really jumped out, and I mean JUMPED out was the organ.  Wow, have never heard it this way. Low, and sustaned no distortion.  Wonderful.  Another Audiogon, Jan Chapin "you anin't done nothing yet",  the bass and sax were unhinged. Great sax, low and you could almost hear the reed vibrate.  The KR 231 black have always been known as bass monsters and they do not disappoint with the EL 39.  On to the Suite bergamasque III, Clair de lune, the piano was spot on, an equal to the delicate violin playing duet. Rimsky-Korsakov's Snow Maiden Dance of the Tumblers. had lots of impact from different orchestral parts, bass emphathis was evident.  Back to the listening. The only weak spot I can hear with this combo, is in vocals, the upper notes are a little soft.  If you have bright phones should not be a problem.  Listening to Diana Krall, I now wonder why I refused to marry her!  Will try another hour or so, and then switch over to RCA 1948 JAN 6sn7 GT, after that Sylvania vt-231 Jan 6sn7 gt.


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## Scutey

Well EL39 and Ken Rad VT99 is just sensational with jazz and classical, Just been listening to this album, the drums in this are reproduced spectacularly well with this combo, deep, resonant, thunderous and utterly addictive, by the way if you like jazz I highly recommend it.


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## Mh996

DecentLevi said:


> Welcome Mh996. I presume you have the Euforia 'v2' which is the 2018 version, or do you have the new Anniversary Edition?


I purchased the 2018 version from Upscale Audio. I haven’t seen the anniversary edition available anywhere. Is it in the US?


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## DecentLevi

Mh996 said:


> I purchased the 2018 version from Upscale Audio. I haven’t seen the anniversary edition available anywhere. Is it in the US?


AFAIK, the Anniversary Edition is only available online from Feliks Audio shipped from Poland. It seems nobody outside of F.A. has tried it yet, so I was just passively interested in hearing impressions of it. Being that your Euforia is even more updated than my Euforia 'v1' which is essentially an Elise 'v2', I'm sure you will be very pleased with her performance. Given amp+tube burn in time, and even future aftermarket tube rolling, you may not even need to look elsewhere for an amp.


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## Mh996 (Jul 9, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> AFAIK, the Anniversary Edition is only available online from Feliks Audio shipped from Poland. It seems nobody outside of F.A. has tried it yet, so I was just passively interested in hearing impressions of it. Being that your Euforia is even more updated than my Euforia 'v1' which is essentially an Elise 'v2', I'm sure you will be very pleased with her performance. Given amp+tube burn in time, and even future aftermarket tube rolling, you may not even need to look elsewhere for an amp.


Do many people on this sub own the v2? I decided that I wanted Euforia after hearing Elise and desiring a more neutral version, detailed version of that. I figured that I could correct for a slightly warmer signature with tubes. I’ve read that Euforia is overpriced, but I thought Elise sounded fit for its price tag. I wonder if most people here are v1 owners enjoying the freedom in tube rolling for v1 price.

Edit: oh, and for the expanded soundstage over Elise. As a Focal user I don’t need a closed-in amp. Mojo was not great on that front.


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## teknorob23

Mh996 said:


> Do many people on this sub own the v2? I decided that I wanted Euforia after hearing Elise and desiring a more neutral version, detailed version of that. I figured that I could correct for a slightly warmer signature with tubes. I’ve read that Euforia is overpriced, but I thought Elise sounded fit for its price tag. I wonder if most people here are v1 owners enjoying the freedom in tube rolling for v1 price.
> 
> Edit: oh, and for the expanded soundstage over Elise. As a Focal user I don’t need a closed-in amp. Mojo was not great on that front.



I accidentally listened to the euforia about a 8 months ago when I went to buy an Elise and was shocked at how superior it sounded in almost all aspects of performance and at how quickly my credit card ended up on the table. Im new to owning tubes having been put off in the past by overly warm/wet sound. The euforia is nothing of the sort and as for value I think it’s one of those rare pieces of hifi that is complete bargain and which id have probably paid double for if asked. It’s up there with chord hugo1 and now 2, which incidentally it pairs with astonishingly well with.  I agree the chord DACs or at lest their amplifier stages don’t have the widest or deepest stage and I can confirm the euforia fixes this. Fortunately it does this with no loss of clarity or detail, it just bypasses the slightly dry analytical amp stage replacing it with a slight wetness but more importantly a more holographic, textured and beautifully layered and completely coherent natural presentation... oh and did just how addictively musical it is.

I auditoned the auris ha2se, which is another of these so-called new school tube amps and very well thought of. Its a beautiful thing and has a sound to match, but for me leans towards the clinical and really lacked the emotion of the euforia, by which i mean that x-factor that regenerates listening to old and favourites. The scalability of the Euforia was also key, which i'm sure if you've spent anytime reading this thread, you'll be aware of the endless opportunities to fine tune and improve the sound with a bit tube rolling. The effects of this cannot be underestimated.

So i doubt it comes as a big surprise to hear someone like me on this owners thread singing the Euforia's praises, but as you can probably gather from my list of ex-kit theres quite a revolving door policy going on in my house and yet as with the Hugo2, Focal Stellia, i havent even thought about a replacement for the Euforia in 8 months, i just wish i had more time to listen to it!

Obvs you've got to listen to it and ideally with your kit, make your own mind up as we all hear differently with different preferences, but i'd recommend giving it go and your in the right place to find out more in the meantime.


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## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> Do many people on this sub own the v2? I decided that I wanted Euforia after hearing Elise and desiring a more neutral version, detailed version of that. I figured that I could correct for a slightly warmer signature with tubes. I’ve read that Euforia is overpriced, but I thought Elise sounded fit for its price tag. I wonder if most people here are v1 owners enjoying the freedom in tube rolling for v1 price.
> 
> Edit: oh, and for the expanded soundstage over Elise. As a Focal user I don’t need a closed-in amp. Mojo was not great on that front.



Hi Mh996.

As @teknorob23 , and most others agree, Euforia is indeed a good few steps up from the Elise (v1 _or_ v2). And does scale further, in line with other upgrades to one's system.

Early pioneering adopters (lucky guys!) enjoyed this improvement over Elise at a bargain price, but even at the later increased ones it's still a good price for such an excellent piece of kit IMHO. Mine was, of course, the very first prototype unit, and contrary to DecentLevi's recent misinformation, it is most definitely NOT an Elise v2 lol!! A look at my very first post on this thread will show clearly the major internal reworkings - the new resistor circuit especially - over Elise, along with the full list (added to in later models) of additions and alterations. Elise v2 has nowhere near this degree of modification...a different animal indeed ...hence Euforia's higher price!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well Mh996, I was going to chime in on the wrong information that Dl had put out but the mighty one beat me to it! Why he would think that the Euforia was just an Elise V2 is beyond me. The Euforia is a different animal, I had the Elise amp first and while a very worthwhile amp, I was looking for something more. When I heard about the new amp I then upgraded to the Euphoria, sn 0005, so not one with some of the latest enhancements.  But I will tell you, this is an amp that is far more versatile than most tube amps in the price range.  As far as the Anniversary edition is concerned, it will be an upgraded Euforia, but at a 30% premium.  If you read back a few pages, you can see Lukasz's email to me about the upgrade. Good luck!


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## hypnos1

Nice to hear from all you lucky EL39 owners that these power tubes bring out the very best in pretty well all drivers that we can use in our amps.

I personally have found that this is the case even more so than with the EL38, including the silver-banded Philips(France) variants....even from the start!  And this enviable ability just continues to grow with every day's playing...if not more so than is usual with all EL tubes in our amps.

In my own system, I'm still getting moments of sheer disbelief when hearing more of my favourite test tracks...especially now that my DIY upgraded cable's mini XLR plugs for the Empyreans are burned in some more. Today, it was Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition' and 'Night on Bald Mountain' (in 94kHz, 24bit hi-res) that provided the magic...and caught me unawares in fact. _Once again_, it was like hearing it afresh, even though I've heard these pieces literally hundreds of times over the past few years of testing.
The EL39s, partnering my mesh plate Valvo EL11 drivers, are taking my already wonderful Meze Empyreans to appreciable new heights...from bass and treble mastery to a mind-tingling 3D soundstage. The massed low strings, wind, brass and timpani, along with the most delicate high notes in 'Pictures' are proof positive of the Meze guy's remark about Euforia, Hugo2 as DAC, plus Empyreans being that "Match made in Heaven". But then, when I was listening to 'Bald Mountain', it felt more like it was a Match made in _*Hell*_...such was the emotional impact of the Witches' frantic, nefarious activities...the sound conjuring up feelings of being inexorably drawn down to the very depths of the inferno lol...wonderful!! .

I cannot overstate my surprise - and amazement - at just what these EL39 power tubes are doing for our amps. They most definitely, IMHO, defy most traditionally held opinions regarding different tubes in the same amp - especially powers - as _not _actually making _appreciable_ improvements to sound performance. The EL38 proved otherwise, but the EL39 simply _destroys_ such opinion...and that's in an amp not even specifically configured for them!! 

And so, folks, I can only hope that you all continue to have the kinds of experience that I never thought possible, even from such a first class amp as Euforia......CHEERS!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Jul 10, 2019)

Hey folks it was more of a mis-step than misinformation, saying something that could be interpreted differently. Here's the way I look at the versions:

* Original Elise (2015-ish) - Elise v1
* Elise 2018 - Elise v2
* Original Euforia (2017) - Euforia v1
* Euforia 2018 - Euforia v2
* Euforia Anniversary Edition - Euforia v3

When referred to the Euforia as an Elise v2 I was thinking of when the Euforia first came out in 2017, of which time there was no Elise v2 so in that context it could have been essentially like a v2 with a new name and many internal improvements. Interestingly there was hardly if any mention of the Elise 2018 edition on any of these threads, taking a while to get used to that there actually _is_ an Elise 2.0 now LOL.

We all do and have agreed that the Euforia is significantly upgraded from the Elise, something I have said even on recent pages, and the first post was largely what convinced me to upgrade to the Euforia two years ago.

Above I was congratulating Mh996 on having the Euforia 2018 edition, and that he may never need to upgrade to another amp. Teknorob, what he was asking above is if many members here have the Euforia 2018 edition (v2). I believe most of us here have the first edition so it would indeed be interesting to hear a (sonic) comparison between the newer versions of the Elise and Euforia, especially the Euforia v1 vs. Elise v2 and the Euforia Anniversary edition.


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## connieflyer

Two days of rolling driver tubes with the EL 39 as power tubes.  Two hour sessions with each tube, and let the amp cool down in between. Hi def files same selection each time.  So far have tried the Ken-Rad black 6SN7 vt231, Sylvania 6SN7 vt 231, 1948 grey glass 6SN7 GT, VT 32, CV 1052, VT 52 and now have the Ken Rad vt96 in. this is a version of the 6N7 tube.All of these tubes pair well with the EL39s.  Symmetry is just great, no problems at all.  I am under the belief that this is the best power tube I have used so far.


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## hypnos1 (Jul 11, 2019)

Please @DecentLevi , I personally try to choose my words very carefully. Your own, and I quote : "my Euforia 'v1' which is essentially an Elise 'v2'", have no "different interpretation" I'm afraid!
A simple apology to members and visitors here, as well as to Feliks-Audio themselves, would have been far more appropriate and welcome. A little humility goes a very long way....
Once again, opinions are one thing, but bold, incorrect statements are another. I simply ask that care is taken in such matters...there are those out there who delight in deriding the reputation of threads here at the slightest opportunity, not to mention a product itself. And I, along with a good many other members, past and present, have worked long and hard at building the reputation of both Elise and Euforia.


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## teknorob23

@Scutey thanks for the heads up on these EL12N's. I bought a pair of NOS RSD for £20 a while ago when you made the suggestion and i have only just got around to listening to them, but have to say i'm quite impressed, again a very natural and sounding particularly nice on female focals/ stripped down folk. No problems matching with the EL39's either.



 

@hypnos1 i'm still getting a handle on these 39s. Theres an undoubtable immediately noticeable improvement on the bass, possibly more depth than 38s, but control is noticeably better and consequently theres more, weight, pace and energy. But having now experimented with various drivers before making the inevitable return to the EL11s in tandem with the 39s, after a few long sessions, i think the positive effects of introducing the later, are much more pervasive than i first thought. There's more snap at the top but without losing any of the liquidity and fullness of the mids, which in my experience is often the cost for airy extended highs... I need to listen more before i can give you anymore coherent impressions but one thing i'm already certain of, is they wont be leaving the back row for the foreseeable, thanks again 

@OctavianH on a side note and coming back to cables. A friend asked me to build a pure silver UPOCC cable, which ive been running in and now listening to for the last couple of days. I used Neotech's 24AWG multi-strand UPOCC silver because flexibility was a requisite. This made the cable quite expensive, although good value by comparison to the Silver/Gold which costs more per metre for 28AWG gauge. I know this isnt an apples and apples comparison due to my SG cable being 28 and this being 24AWG, but i can already say i prefer the silver. It has all the transparency, detail and stage depth/width benefits i can hear in the SG, BUT!! it has a slam and depth to the bass which just isnt there with SG and is more what i'd expect from copper, just loads more precise. It has a slightly different tone and timbre, just as natural, perhaps a tad brighter (in a very good way, never sibilant). With this the presentation feels more open, especially in the mids, where incidentally the Stellia are pretty full. Overall the presentation is precise, detailed with everything beautifully separated while never losing overall focus and coherence and a joyous addictive listen. To call me fickle would be very fair, but for now  i've found a favourite and most complete sounding HP cable to date.... but but but what would an 8 core sound like mmmmmmm


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## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> @OctavianH on a side note and coming back to cables. A friend asked me to build a pure silver UPOCC cable, which ive been running in and now listening to for the last couple of days. I used Neotech's 24AWG multi-strand UPOCC silver because flexibility was a requisite. This made the cable quite expensive, although good value by comparison to the Silver/Gold which costs more per metre for 28AWG gauge. I know this isnt an apples and apples comparison due to my SG cable being 28 and this being 24AWG, but i can already say i prefer the silver. It has all the transparency, detail and stage depth/width benefits i can hear in the SG, BUT!! it has a slam and depth to the bass which just isnt there with SG and is more what i'd expect from copper, just loads more precise. It has a slightly different tone and timbre, just as natural, perhaps a tad brighter (in a very good way, never sibilant). With this the presentation feels more open, especially in the mids, where incidentally the Stellia are pretty full. Overall the presentation is precise, detailed with everything beautifully separated while never losing overall focus and coherence and a joyous addictive listen. To call me fickle would be very fair, but for now  i've found a favourite and most complete sounding HP cable to date.... but but but what would an 8 core sound like mmmmmmm



I use at the moment for T1 the Forza AudioWorks Noir Hybrid cable which they claim is a "High purity, 8 strands of 26AWG cryo 7N UPOCC copper/silver hybrid wire in semi-Litz geometry with PE insulation. NOT silver plated (SPC), but true hybrid UPOCC silver/copper wire" and I have to say it sounds incredible good. I am convinced that the silver or the silver/gold ones are incredible but for me the cables which combine silver and copper provide all the needed ingredients for a perfectly equilibrated sound. And the price for such a cable is around 250 EUR.







I guess I'll try different cables in the future, but for the moment this one remains connected to my headphones. Of course, I still consider the stock one provided with 2nd generation to be quite good. I have a feeling that the cable you describe is somehow similar to this one, but of course, it might be better.


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I use at the moment for T1 the Forza AudioWorks Noir Hybrid cable which they claim is a "High purity, 8 strands of 26AWG cryo 7N UPOCC copper/silver hybrid wire in semi-Litz geometry with PE insulation. NOT silver plated (SPC), but true hybrid UPOCC silver/copper wire" and I have to say it sounds incredible good. I am convinced that the silver or the silver/gold ones are incredible but for me the cables which combine silver and copper provide all the needed ingredients for a perfectly equilibrated sound. And the price for such a cable is around 250 EUR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've not heard the Forza cable and i agree the T1's stock cable is pretty good, way better than the piece of old rope Focal passes off a stock cable for the Stellia and the rest of its range. And while i'm definitely not trying to push you in to more expenditure, i have to say having listened to dozens of after market and supplied cables in the last couple of years, i'm completely convinced by the sonc advantages Neotech's UPOCC wire provides over every other type of OCC let alone OFC wire i've heard. And thats across their range ot hook-up wire, from the copper through to silver and SG.

I wish i'd heard the Forza, so i could say for certain or that we lived local enough to one another that i could lend you a selection so you could hear for yourself, but i'd be will to make a small wager that this wire is on a whole different level to shop bought cables ive paid 4 times the amount for. @hypnos1 tipped me off as to the wanders of both neotech and DIY, but as you can tell i'm complete convert to the point of evangelism. I just cant believe such a good sound is achievable for such relatively small investment. EG for less than 50 euros you can have one of the best copper cables on the market up to 200 euros for silver or silver gold cable that is nothing short of jaw dropping. All my life experience has consistently proved the adage of "if its looks to good to be true then it is", but this instance its blown out of the water, probably why i'm finding it so addictive ... sorry i'll get off my continuously cast copper soap box, as i can hear i already sound like a drug pusher at the school gates  

PS hows the interconnect bedding in?


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> @Scutey thanks for the heads up on these EL12N's. I bought a pair of NOS RSD for £20 a while ago when you made the suggestion and i have only just got around to listening to them, but have to say i'm quite impressed, again a very natural and sounding particularly nice on female focals/ stripped down folk. No problems matching with the EL39's either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi tr. Funny you should mention more top end 'snap' from the EL39s...along with a host of other qualities I'm sure you'll discover with even more listening lol! 
While engrossed in Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition' yesterday, I was nearly shaken out of my seat by what sounds like a whip crack in 'Gnomus'...its razor sharp 'attack' was like I've never heard it before. My eardrums certainly weren't expecting it either lol!!...but survived the attack, glad to say! 

And it looks like the DIY cable bug has _really_ got a hold now...poor chap!  Interesting results from the stranded wire...shan't be trying it myself though - have got plenty enough cables already lol!  But these Neotech UP-OCC wires/cables certainly are in a league of their own IMHO...a good deal better than _any_ other 'ordinary' pure silver and OFC copper to be sure......CHEERS!...CJ


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## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> PS hows the interconnect bedding in?



The NEI-2001 cables have only 50 hours and I would say that it is too early for me to have an opinion since everyone advised me to keep them at least 200 hours before making a statement.
They are very detailed but somehow dry and lifeless. I will wait more hours and then check them against the DH Labs Air Matrix and several pairs of tubes and decide which one will remain on the amp and which one will go into storage.

Regarding the headphone cables, I will keep in mind to try one of these Neotech UPOCC silver cables one day, but at the moment I do not want to change anything to the HP line.


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> The NEI-2001 cables have only 50 hours and I would say that it is too early for me to have an opinion since everyone advised me to keep them at least 200 hours before making a statement.
> They are very detailed but somehow dry and lifeless. I will wait more hours and then check them against the DH Labs Air Matrix and several pairs of tubes and decide which one will remain on the amp and which one will go into storage.
> 
> Regarding the headphone cables, I will keep in mind to try one of these Neotech UPOCC silver cables one day, but at the moment I do not want to change anything to the HP line.



Re the Interconnect, i've found this with all of the neotech sliver cables, that they go through a number of permutations including exaggerated bass to dry and bright sounding and then reversing this, then at about 100-150hrs+ it all thankfully comes together. I have A-B the neotech with Tellurium Q Ultra Black II rca. Initially i thought the TQ had a fuller better extended presentation and was ready to keep it, but at about 150-200hrs the Neotech began edge it in almost every area, but particularly in the bottom and top extension. In other areas their tonal differences made it harder call which was best, with the Neotech offering drier but more open midrange which watered down by the euforia, made it more enjoyable, to my ears at least and i've stuck with it over the TQ. 

And I will try to stop pestering you with HP cable pushing posts i promise


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## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> Re the Interconnect, i've found this with all of the neotech sliver cables, that they go through a number of permutations including exaggerated bass to dry and bright sounding and then reversing this, then at about 100-150hrs+ it all thankfully comes together. I have A-B the neotech with Tellurium Q Ultra Black II rca. Initially i thought the TQ had a fuller better extended presentation and was ready to keep it, but at about 150-200hrs the Neotech began edge it in almost every area, but particularly in the bottom and top extension. In other areas their tonal differences made it harder call which was best, with the Neotech offering drier but more open midrange which watered down by the euforia, made it more enjoyable, to my ears at least and i've stuck with it over the TQ.
> 
> And I will try to stop pestering you with HP cable pushing posts i promise



I will let them reach 200 hours and only then make the first A-B because at the moment it makes no sense. And regarding the HP or anything please push me because there is no problem. I always take into consideration any advice and in most of the cases these advices save me a lot of trouble by searching alone and help me obtain what I need. So I really appreciate and I want to thank you for your advices. But at the moment, at least until the interconnects reach the final stage, I do not want to add a new variable to the equation because it will be harder to observe their improvement. And the Forza is a really decent one which sometimes surpasses my expectations in some well known tracks. By the way, the T1 2nd generation stock cable is a Cardas Clear Light made especially for Beyerdynamic and this is the reason it surpasses many other custom cables. So at the moment the HP cable goes only on "wishlist".


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## DecentLevi (Jul 11, 2019)

As all of the members here are human some things are bound to not always be 100% accurate. If there ever is an inaccurate statement on these forums, in my view the best way to deal with it is for one person to correct them once, and as long as they don't keep posting the original mis-statement, just let nature take its' course. Otherwise reposting that original statement has a way of perpetuating it and making things worse for everyone. H1, both of us have made many helpful contributions over the years so let's not derail things so much based on one small part of a post. The Euforia is indeed a direct descendant based entirely on the Elise anyway, and we do agree it is in another league with a lot of technological differences. I do apologise for any confusion the above post on this page may have caused which should not be repeated by any of us.

Meanwhile your EL39 adapters arrived yesterday. I was in awe of your fine craftsmanship with superb attention to detail. It seems a lot of care was taken for every detail, and I felt graced to even be holding such fine work. You even used two wires of different material for the top cap connection.
  

My EL39's are channel balanced and sounding like they match quite fine even though slightly different brand / height variations. Impressions will come gradually after more testing.


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## connieflyer

After much listening, the EL 39 as power tube is probably the best I have heard.  I did not listen to all my driver tubes, did not see the purpose, at least at this time.  All my top line 6SN7's excelled with the El 39. except for the Ken-Rad Vt231's that were a little too much bass, and lacking in the upper ranges.  For orchestra based recordings it was just to shifted to the bass.  The El32, El52 were quite good but the Vt96 K-R's (6N7) was lacking.  Then tried a pair of Valvo EL 11 and there was an improvement. Went back to the EL 11 Valvo mesh plate tubes as drivers, and confirmed to me, that of all the various genres of tubes that I have, these had the magic.  It was interesting to hear the various combo's and confirmed for me that the mesh plate tubes have something special. The difference is not huge, over the regular Valvo EL 11's, but there is a noticable difference that once you hear it, the rest are just okay.  So good luck trying to find the mesh plates. I still look but have not seen any available, but I am sure that some will appear, but it will be all luck getting them.  Would I pay premium over and above the regular Valvo's , absolutely.  Once your whole system is done with each component being the best match to each other tubes really do make that last bit to the system as a whole. I was in contact with Upscale Audio about the F-A's Anniversary Euforia, and they have contacted Lukasz to see if they will have it for sale, when it finally comes to market.


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## Mh996 (Jul 11, 2019)

I’ll keep this short. My Euforia V2 arrived today. First impressions are that it sounds SIGNIFICANTLY better than my mojo alone, and is still a whole league above my old HDVD600 (sold for pairing poorly with my Focal Clears). Soundstage is greatly improved, dynamics are insanely nice, and detail is very impressive using mojo’s line level out. I really can’t wait to see where this goes after break-in, as I’m already very impressed with this amp. I was worried about the output impedance being basically the same as my Clears (55 ohms). But the signature does not lean to the warm side. In fact, it’s incredibly neutral, just like Clear. Mojo adds just a touch of warmth, which I oh so love. I’ll post more later in the month once I’ve got more time for break-in to finish. Cheers -Mike

Edit: my picture didn’t post. Will try adding it on my desktop later.


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## LoryWiv (Jul 11, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Meanwhile your EL39 adapters arrived yesterday. I was in awe of your fine craftsmanship with superb attention to detail. It seems a lot of care was taken for every detail, and I felt graced to even be holding such fine work. You even used two wires of different material for the top cap connection.
> 
> 
> My EL39's are channel balanced and sounding like they match quite fine even though slightly different brand / height variations. Impressions will come gradually after more testing.



As I can still claim tube amp newbie status I will swallow my pride and ask: What is the white cord / device connected to the adapter? I had envisioned a tube adapter as just a differently configured socket that fits over the original one, and am puzzled by this.

Cue the laugh track, or better still please laugh silently to yourselves.


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## DecentLevi

Some ancient tubes in the 40's grew a hat  requiring an umbilical cord, though some refer to it as a Frankenstein tube. 

The technical explanation is a little closer to this: certain vintage radio tubes have an internal circuit that also requires an external connection, most commonly known as the 'anode' circuit such as with the EL12 Spez tubes which are one of my all time favorite; I believe in the case of the EL 38/39 tubes the top cap may have a different designation. I'm sure someone else can explain it better.


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## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> Some ancient tubes in the 40's grew a hat  requiring an umbilical cord, though some refer to it as a Frankenstein tube.
> 
> The technical explanation is a little closer to this: certain vintage radio tubes have an internal circuit that also requires an external connection, most commonly known as the 'anode' circuit such as with the EL12 Spez tubes which are one of my all time favorite; I believe in the case of the EL 38/39 tubes the top cap may have a different designation. I'm sure someone else can explain it better.


Ah, so it's not really about the adapter per se but rather the tube type?


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## hypnos1 (Jul 12, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Ah, so it's not really about the adapter per se but rather the tube type?



Hi LW.

Some tubes - especially older ones - have the plate (anode) connection taken to the top of the tube, hence the name 'top cap', instead of out the bottom to the pins with all the other wires. Ostensibly, this is to allow a higher voltage that can be applied within the tube, when greater power output is desired. An additional benefit seems that this also makes for a slightly better performance compared to the conventional/usual confinement within the tube. I, and others, have found this to certainly be the case, as I discovered when first adapting the EL12 Spezial.
Therefore, that connecting wire is needed to run from the top, back down to the tube's pin in its base...and so is determined by such a tube type. Just occasionally - as with the EL32 - it's not the anode that goes to the top, but the signal grid (#1). And again, I personally believe that slight improvement comes from taking the connection to the _outside_, as opposed to being closer to the other wires when _inside.
_
Hope this gives you a bit more idea of what's going on inside these wonderful glass enclosures called 'tubes'...or 'valves', as they're called here in the UK! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. As with most such tubes, where it's for the anode - the EL38/39 included - it follows that one *should never go anywhere near any exposed metal part of the top cap!!!* It carries an extremely high voltage lol!!


----------



## hypnos1

Glad to hear your adapters arrived safe and sound @DecentLevi , and that you're pleased with them.

I did indeed take great care making these things, which makes it all the more gratifying that everyone seems to like them just as much lol!  And yes, I used OCC silver _and_ copper wires for the top cap anode connection...just to be sure of the best possible performance!!  Plus, I extended them inside the top cap so as to also make direct metal-to-metal contact with the tube's connector...in line with my pathological hatred of any sort of connector, and minimise such whenever/wherever possible lol 

And so now, I just hope the EL39s excel in your own system, as they appear to be doing in all the other different systems so far, regardless of the drivers used ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> Some tubes - especially older ones - have the plate (anode) connection taken to the top of the tube, hence the name 'top cap', instead of out the bottom to the pins with all the other wires. Ostensibly, this is to allow a higher voltage that can be applied within the tube, when greater power output is desired. An additional benefit seems that this also makes for a slightly better performance compared to the conventional/usual confinement within the tube. I, and others, have found this to certainly be the case, as I discovered when first adapting the EL12 Spezial.
> Therefore, that connecting wire is needed to run from the top, back down to the tube's pin in its base...and so is determined by such a tube type. Just occasionally - as with the EL32 - it's not the anode that goes to the top, but the signal grid (#1). And again, I personally believe that slight improvement comes from taking the connection to the _outside_, as opposed to being closer to the other wires when _inside.
> ...



Thanks as always for the explanation, @hypnos1 . Seems a bit less aesthetically pleasing but if the audio performance is superior, that's the bottom line of course.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks as always for the explanation, @hypnos1 . Seems a bit less aesthetically pleasing but if the audio performance is superior, that's the bottom line of course.



Yo LW. To some, that top anode/wire connection can seem rather 'cumbersome', but having enjoyed superlative performance from any such tube until now, I myself am more than happy with its aesthetic lol!  And I confess to being swayed further in learning to love this (now) unconventional look from seeing such tubes being used in quite sensational DIY projects over the years...such DIYers usually being streets ahead of us mere 'amateurs' lol! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> After much listening, the EL 39 as power tube is probably the best I have heard.  I did not listen to all my driver tubes, did not see the purpose, at least at this time.  All my top line 6SN7's excelled with the El 39. except for the Ken-Rad Vt231's that were a little too much bass, and lacking in the upper ranges.  For orchestra based recordings it was just to shifted to the bass.  The El32, El52 were quite good but the Vt96 K-R's (6N7) was lacking.  Then tried a pair of Valvo EL 11 and there was an improvement. Went back to the EL 11 Valvo mesh plate tubes as drivers, and confirmed to me, that of all the various genres of tubes that I have, these had the magic.  It was interesting to hear the various combo's and confirmed for me that the mesh plate tubes have something special. The difference is not huge, over the regular Valvo EL 11's, but there is a noticable difference that once you hear it, the rest are just okay.  So good luck trying to find the mesh plates. I still look but have not seen any available, but I am sure that some will appear, but it will be all luck getting them.  Would I pay premium over and above the regular Valvo's , absolutely.  Once your whole system is done with each component being the best match to each other tubes really do make that last bit to the system as a whole. I was in contact with Upscale Audio about the F-A's Anniversary Euforia, and they have contacted Lukasz to see if they will have it for sale, when it finally comes to market.



Yes indeed cf...I count us both as being extremely fortunate in possessing the impossibly rare mesh-plate, black glass Valvo EL11s. And gold at the end of the rainbow for anyone who's lucky enough to come across some lol !  But the standard EL11s, as you say, are not _too_ far behind. As far as I'm concerned - and in my own system - they don't just 'synergise' well with both the EL38 and especially the EL39, theirs is more a 'symbiotic' relationship. And to the point where despite the 39 particularly helping most other drivers shine, I too find that none of my previous star drivers can produce the same kind of magic...full stop! Which is why I gave up backtracking re. drivers a long while ago now.... But for the _real_ magic, the rest of the system needs to be top notch, with no compromise anywhere in the line.

As for the EL39 itself, each new day and piece of music brings even more admiration for this tube...those guys on the French thread were spot on regarding the merits of this family of power tubes, but had I not found one sitting alone in a (yet another!) box somewhere and curiosity getting the better of me, we may never have known the joys of such a wonderful animal. Aided and abetted by that lucky find of a source for them at an incredibly good price.... I probably wouldn't have explored this tube any further, given their current scarcity and high prices, alas. But for anyone who may want to have backups of this tube, it looks like the other French source I mentioned a while back still has some Philips (only 2 per order though...or just 2 stock?) for 49 Euros each...PM me if interested...CHEERS !...CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 13, 2019)

While waiting for Colin’s adaptors (I expect delivery tomorrow) I did something very useful:  about 60 hours of full burn-in (in my power amp) for my quartet of EL-39s.  Now this is a “hot” burn, being the tubes pushed much harder as output pentodes in a PA than as triodes in Euforia.

To put things in perspective, the 4 NOS EL39s sounded great out of the box, yes, but not up to the splendid openess and transparency of my (fully burned) quartet of EL38s.  The sound was certainly a bit “closed in” in comparison, a bit restricted, and I immediately realized that these tubes needed a LONG burn-in.  That’s the “bad” news (LOL). Of course, in triode mode both tubes are more linear and may sound different (better) than as pentodes, but the sound signature is about the same...

The good news are that after more than 60 hours, the EL39s developed gradually into a deeply musical, accurate, involving sound.  Detail and depth, dynamics, bass are fantastic, and the tubes opened up to deliver an impressive soundstage...but they are capable of much more, being mine, in my opinion, at about  70% of their full potential !!

This  gradual but steady improvement from burn in may be the hallmark of very sturdy tubes, made to last a lifetime, which in fact they are (as I discovered from a french blog).  Interesting to learn that the EL39s were strictly pro tubes, designed and specially built for Philips “Cinema” amplifiers (a total production of only 2000 units) and as so are regarded (by the french tube community) as the “holy grail” of audio power pentodes, far above the famous EL37s or legendary EL34s, while belonging to the same family.

The difference (they say) is that the former were designed to be an “easy” load and deliver good sound & high power on guitar and commercial amps, while the 39s (non commercial) were strictly focused on the highest possible sound *quality* and long term reliability.  This expert french builder also said that the “top cap”, was used (of course) to avoid shorts and burning sockets under extreme “cinema” conditions...and made the tube sound better by isolating the high voltage from the low level signals...that makes sense to me.

Anyway, after reading all this I took my flashlight and inspected the tubes innards  carefully:  no doubt a top flight construction: the round plates are carbon black and look very solid, the oval anode is an oversized EL38 style, and the gold grid is just impressive.  Yes, this thing is made to last...and needs to burn properly...


----------



## ZRW0

Yummy.


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> While waiting for Colin’s adaptors (I expect delivery tomorrow) I did something very useful:  about 60 hours of full burn-in (in my power amp) for my quartet of EL-39s.  Now this is a “hot” burn, being the tubes pushed much harder as output pentodes in a PA than as triodes in Euforia.
> 
> To put things in perspective, the 4 NOS EL39s sounded great out of the box, yes, but not up to the splendid openess and transparency of my (fully burned) quartet of EL38s.  The sound was certainly a bit “closed in” in comparison, a bit restricted, and I immediately realized that these tubes needed a LONG burn-in.  That’s the “bad” news (LOL). Of course, in triode mode both tubes are more linear and may sound different (better) than as pentodes, but the sound signature is about the same...
> 
> ...



Yes indeed Juan, these 39s continue to improve over a longer period even than the EL38! And am glad they're doing wonders as powers in your speaker amp. As you say, I'm sure the more linear response when triode-strapped as in our hp amps makes for an even better sound lol 

Those French bloggers were certainly right on the ball re. this tube. When I read that an obviously 'top' man rated the 39 (the later silver-banded 'PRO', gold grid version) over the 37 my interest was really piqued, and even more so when he was scathing about the excellent (in our amps at least) EL38!...the rest is history...

ps. He was also scathing about the even _earlier_ 39 version (with the _red_ skirt), which does indeed look just like the inferior 4654, and so to be avoided at all costs lol! Interesting also that you mention a 2000 tube limited production for the PRO (Gold) version...no wonder they're scarce and pricey, especially if NOS!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Yummy.



Looks like you too don't mind the 'cumbersome' look Erwan..._doubly _so, in fact lol!  The sound also, it would appear......HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 15, 2019)

Hey @LoryWiv I just wanted to say I hope our recent posts on the Elise vs. Euforia didn't put you off too much to give up around here. I do believe your Elise should have potential to do quite well especially since it's the 2018 version, and some have even had a preference for it.

Also @Dobrescu George I noticed you on the thread for the new planar headphones Rad-0 from Rosson Audio and saw you have the Euforia amp listed on your profile but haven't seen you here. Feel free to browse recent pages of this thread to keep current on recommended tubes or happenings.


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> Hey @LoryWiv I just wanted to say I hope our recent posts on the Elise vs. Euforia didn't put you off too much to give up around here. I do believe your Elise should have potential to do quite well especially since it's the 2018 version, and some have even had a preference for it..



No, I won't  succumb to upgraditis any time soon, especially as I'm still getting to know Elise. I actually heard both Elise and Euforia side by side at last month's CanJam SoCal (Upscale Audio booth), and didn't find enough difference to justify the additional spend. Indeed, I found the synergy with Auteur to perhaps even be better (touch more warmth added to this fairly neutral headphone). Admittedly show conditions are less than ideal to form meaningful impressions, but there is such a robust pathway to explore different tubes, other "tweaks" which may or may not lead eventually to eventually lead to Euforia. I do have an upgraded power cable on the way (Cullen Cables Crossover) but after that I'm just intent on enjoying the journey and the music. Also, my wallet needs a good rest. 

Thanks, @DecentLevi !


----------



## LoryWiv

Another newbie question: Is there any downside to running a small fan to drop the heat output from my Elise? What I am really asking is if the tubes are externally cooled a bit does it affect their sonic characteristics. I know they are intended to run warm, but have kids with curious little fingers occasionally in the house...


----------



## triggsviola

LoryWiv said:


> Another newbie question: Is there any downside to running a small fan to drop the heat output from my Elise? What I am really asking is if the tubes are externally cooled a bit does it affect their sonic characteristics. I know they are intended to run warm, but have kids with curious little fingers occasionally in the house...


The kids will touch it....once...


----------



## triggsviola

LoryWiv said:


> Another newbie question: Is there any downside to running a small fan to drop the heat output from my Elise? What I am really asking is if the tubes are externally cooled a bit does it affect their sonic characteristics. I know they are intended to run warm, but have kids with curious little fingers occasionally in the house...


But to answer question, the amp sounds best at operating temps.


----------



## LoryWiv

So  no fan...perhaps I'll leave if off when I'm at desk listening, then turn it on when I get up to expedite cool down. Solid plan?


----------



## DecentLevi

I've used a small fan pointed towards the tubes for at least a year, mostly because I'm using an externally heated 6x power tube setup which cumulatively gets hotter, recommended by a former member of these forums @mordy . To my knowledge neither him or me have ever experienced any sonic difference with the fan. Mostly I just use it for hotter running tubes like 6080, 6AS7G and 6BL7 in hopes this will help them last longer. They're likely operating at normal heat but can get so hot it makes me wonder if they will burn out too fast. Probably I could use a thermometer gun to confirm the temperature is OK, but for now I'm just using the fan on those as a precaution. Mostly these days though I've been running EL32, EL39 and EL11's which run a lot cooler anyway.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 16, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> So  no fan...perhaps I'll leave if off when I'm at desk listening, then turn it on when I get up to expedite cool down. Solid plan?



Hey LW...even with a fan running, those power tubes - but less so with the EL family (themselves still quite hot though, even if amp is cool!) - will probably still be extremely hot to touch. I'm afraid the only really safe option IMHO, if little fingers get there behind your back, is to either 'cage' them somehow (er, _tubes, _that is lol?!! ), or place out of their reach....GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

Understood, Cage free children with all digits intact is my strong preference as well.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Understood, Cage free children with all digits intact is my strong preference as well.


To clar


LoryWiv said:


> Another newbie question: Is there any downside to running a small fan to drop the heat output from my Elise? What I am really asking is if the tubes are externally cooled a bit does it affect their sonic characteristics. I know they are intended to run warm, but have kids with curious little fingers occasionally in the house...


To clarify a couple of things:
In the past I used an externally powered 6 socket adapter for the power tubes in the Elise/Euforia. I was told that this set-up may overload resistors in the amp with possible failure, and I stopped using it. In addition, I did warn DL about the possible negative consequences of using this adapter. 
Regardless of this, IMHO a small fan is a good idea. Heat is enemy #1 of electronics.
What I was told is to position a fan so that it draws away air from the amp; not blowing on it. My amp sits in an equipment rack and I mounted an old 4" PC fan underneath the shelf above the amp. Power to the fan comes from an old 12V wall wart. Just make sure that the amp rating of the power supply is equal to or greater than the fan's rating (printed on the fan).
Using the fan lowers the temperature a good 20 degrees and I can touch 6SN7 type tubes without burning my fingers, but the 2.5A power tubes is another story - they can run from 150-270 degrees and you risk getting burnt if you touch them.
My fan is not whisper quiet, but when playing music I can't hear it. Haven't noticed any RF noise from the fan.
Since the tubes need a certain operating temperature to perform properly, I usually allow the tubes to heat up 1/2 hour before I turn on the fan. I can only remember once with a different amp when a tube "under the fan" got too cold and did not sound right.


----------



## LoryWiv

Very helpful, @mordy ... thank you!


----------



## Mh996

Here she is, burning in. Man this amp looks nice.


----------



## Dobrescu George

DecentLevi said:


> Hey @LoryWiv I just wanted to say I hope our recent posts on the Elise vs. Euforia didn't put you off too much to give up around here. I do believe your Elise should have potential to do quite well especially since it's the 2018 version, and some have even had a preference for it.
> 
> Also @Dobrescu George I noticed you on the thread for the new planar headphones Rad-0 from Rosson Audio and saw you have the Euforia amp listed on your profile but haven't seen you here. Feel free to browse recent pages of this thread to keep current on recommended tubes or happenings.



Thank you for your kind invite  

My Euforia is still in production / shipping so I haven't jumped in the thread quite yet


----------



## teknorob23

Mh996 said:


> I’ll keep this short. My Euforia V2 arrived today. First impressions are that it sounds SIGNIFICANTLY better than my mojo alone, and is still a whole league above my old HDVD600 (sold for pairing poorly with my Focal Clears). Soundstage is greatly improved, dynamics are insanely nice, and detail is very impressive using mojo’s line level out. I really can’t wait to see where this goes after break-in, as I’m already very impressed with this amp. I was worried about the output impedance being basically the same as my Clears (55 ohms). But the signature does not lean to the warm side. In fact, it’s incredibly neutral, just like Clear. Mojo adds just a touch of warmth, which I oh so love. I’ll post more later in the month once I’ve got more time for break-in to finish. Cheers -Mike
> 
> Edit: my picture didn’t post. Will try adding it on my desktop later.



Congrats Mike, the dac in the mojo is awesome and although i only listened to mine briefly behind the euforia it definitely sounded the best it had. Enjoy rob


----------



## hypnos1

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you for your kind invite
> 
> My Euforia is still in production / shipping so I haven't jumped in the thread quite yet



Hi DG...looking forward to your impressions when the beauty arrives...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Jul 17, 2019)

Mh996 said:


> Here she is, burning in. Man this amp looks nice.



 Yes indeed Mh...sheer minimalist beauty lol!  Looking forward to your impressions also...CJ

ps. Nice photo...


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## DecentLevi (Jul 17, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you for your kind invite
> 
> My Euforia is still in production / shipping so I haven't jumped in the thread quite yet



Ahhhh, I gotcha to join the Euforia thread LOL! Now you're stuck here, HaHa 
Nah I think we'll be quite helpful. Actually we're honored to have you here, maybe the most experienced member on the F.A. threads and a professional reviewer at Audiophile Heaven. Plus you're getting the Euforia v2 (2018 edition) so should be interesting to hear your take on it. Unless if you still have the chance to switch to the Anniversary Edition which was recently explained here.

And you have an incredible arsenal of flagship headphones. I'll say likely the Beyerdynaic Amiron, Meze Empyrean and Kennerton Thror should pair quite well. And that would be interesting to see if your Rosson Audio Rad-0's pair well because the Euforia pairing didn't synergize in my brief testing.

PS - as you may have noticed from our advice to other recent F.A. amp owners these do need at a fair bit of burn in for both the amp and tubes to really achieve optimal performance. (perhaps min. 100 hours on the amp).

Oh also I've visited Bucharest as well as the Black Sea coast, and you're the 2nd Romanian member on this thread.


----------



## OctavianH

DecentLevi said:


> Oh also I've visited Bucharest as well as the Black Sea coast, and you're the 2nd Romanian member on this thread.



Yes, I am the second one but I am north from you, in the land of the blood drinkers. By the way I never heard about Audiophile Heaven, it is a personal website?


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 18, 2019)

Have had the pleasure (privilege?) to experience 4 x EL39 (pentodes) in my power amp.  Now with the excellent @hypnos1 adaptors it’s time for Euforia.  As power triodes (in a much more linear fashion) the EL39s reveal a lot more of their _inner _character_, _which is surprisingly airy & transparent. At the same time, bass is tight, strong, but allways in the right proportion. A really balanced, accurate tube, and one that just _begs_ for the right drivers.

With EL11s (in the second pic: black glass TFKs from 1950) the sound was utterly refined, spacious, sweet, delicious.  Some of the best I have ever experienced with cans.  However, not all EL11s are the same, and I was mightily impressed -also-  with the RFT EL11s:  authority, dynamics, extension, clarity: more forward than the TFKs, and an amazing driver by all means.  Waiting for a couple of Valvos and even Tungsram just to check other EL11 “flavors” paired with the EL39s, now convinced that the EL11s show real synergy with these powers...

With the EL38 as drivers (first pic) the combo went beyond mere “synergy” into  full classic  triode sonic glory.   Less refined,  perhaps ? but crisp clear, wide open, extended, dynamic,  just amazing.  Not for all cans, maybe, but  a killer combo if there is any.  And I am not taking sides, the EL11s are probably better for some types of music, while the 38s are more like an assault on high definition. The integration is no surprise, being the 38s and 39s of almost identical construction...


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 18, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Have had the pleasure (privilege?) to experience 4 x EL39 (pentodes) in my power amp.  Now with the excellent @hypnos1 adaptors it’s time for Euforia.  As power triodes (in a much more linear fashion) the EL39s reveal a lot more of their _inner _character_, _which is surprisingly airy & transparent. At the same time, bass is tight, strong, but allways in the right proportion. A really balanced, accurate tube, and one that just _begs_ for the right drivers.
> 
> With EL11s (in the second pic: black glass TFKs from 1950) the sound was utterly refined, spacious, sweet, delicious.  Some of the best I have ever experienced with cans.  However, not all EL11s are the same, and I was mightily impressed -also-  with the RFT EL11s:  authority, dynamics, extension, clarity: more forward than the TFKs, and an amazing driver by all means.  Waiting for a couple of Valvos and even Tungsram just to check other EL11 “flavors” paired with the EL39s, now convinced that the EL11s show real synergy with these powers...
> 
> With the EL38 as drivers (first pic) the combo went beyond mere “synergy” into  full classic  triode sonic glory.   Less refined,  perhaps ? but crisp clear, wide open, extended, dynamic,  just amazing.  Not for all cans, maybe, but  a killer combo if there is any.  And I am not taking sides, the EL11s are probably better for some types of music, while the 38s are more like an assault on high definition. The integration is no surprise, being the 38s and 39s of almost identical construction...



Hi J...glad you're impressed with the EL39 gracing Euforia in triode mode, as well as pentode in your speaker amp...a truly wonderful tube IMHO, and loved by both amps (a good bit more than the 38 in my own particular system especially! ).

Nice to hear you're also impressed with the EL11s as drivers...it will be interesting to see how you find the Valvos in comparison to the TFKs, and RFTs (which are indeed excellent, and have shot up in price! ). I also have a slightly differently shaped Tungsram - identical to another Valvo - that I actually preferred to the German tubes.

And yes, for me (and my Empyreans) the EL38 as driver partners the 39 much better than the 38 as powers...that more controlled, tighter bass of the 39 is just the ticket lol!

But in the final analysis, I'm still won over by the - again, yes - greater refinement and delicacy of the Valvo EL11 driver...particularly my mesh-plated version (a combination of TFK/RFT/EL3Ns best qualities, if you will...).

Whatever, there is undoubtedly a real love affair going on between EL tubes as both drivers and powers...often a more (sorry to repeat myself) _symbiotic _relationship than 'merely' _synergistic_...as you too have obviously noticed, J...CHEERS!


----------



## Dobrescu George

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DG...looking forward to your impressions when the beauty arrives...CJ



Thank you for the kind welcome!  



DecentLevi said:


> Ahhhh, I gotcha to join the Euforia thread LOL! Now you're stuck here, HaHa
> Nah I think we'll be quite helpful. Actually we're honored to have you here, maybe the most experienced member on the F.A. threads and a professional reviewer at Audiophile Heaven. Plus you're getting the Euforia v2 (2018 edition) so should be interesting to hear your take on it. Unless if you still have the chance to switch to the Anniversary Edition which was recently explained here.
> 
> And you have an incredible arsenal of flagship headphones. I'll say likely the Beyerdynaic Amiron, Meze Empyrean and Kennerton Thror should pair quite well. And that would be interesting to see if your Rosson Audio Rad-0's pair well because the Euforia pairing didn't synergize in my brief testing.
> ...



Thank you for the kind advice! 

Will surely do a ton of pairings with Euforia as soon as it arrives, I'm also quite curious about it . 

Sounds like a lot of people like Romania, which is awesome, I have fun in my little country


----------



## barontan2418

Just purchased a second black mesh  Telefunken EL11. I've been keeping an eye ebay and one just popped up. Hoping and expecting good results with my EL39's fingers crossed. Elise is sounding fine with 2 old Cossor 38's and Valvo EL11's round plate variety. Getting closer to end game me thinks.




.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Just purchased a second black mesh  Telefunken EL11. I've been keeping an eye ebay and one just popped up. Hoping and expecting good results with my EL39's fingers crossed. Elise is sounding fine with 2 old Cossor 38's and Valvo EL11's round plate variety. Getting closer to end game me thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



.[/QUOTE]

Well done on bagging a second mesh plate EL11 bt...there can't be many about, to be sure lol!  Have been looking for any more Valvo mesh for a long while now, but none in sight alas .

Further to @Johnnysound 's mention of the RFT version being impressive - with which I agree - out of curiosity I thought I'd have a look on fleabay for current asking prices...a couple of NOS there at nearly *$100* _each_...OUCH! Crazy, given the much more reasonable prices about when I - and others - were developing a liking for the EL11!  It was also interesting to see that mrsx has sold *123* EL11/12 adapters for our amps so far...popular tubes indeed! And 59 for the EL38, 55 for the EL32...methinks I should definitely have asked for commission lol!! ...

Here's hoping your TFKs and EL39s do indeed bring you 'end game' performance...I know my own combo has......CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 19, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you for the kind welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool, I'll bet you will find new good headphone pairings with the Euforia for the community. Keep in mind though to not judge the amp at first try though, it does take some time to 'open up'. Not only time but of course pairing it with a good DAC and quality cables (interconnects and headphone cable) helps, then after burn in aftermarket tubes can make a good difference too... you can see we're all raving here about the best ever pairings to date. The 100 hours was just a random guess, my memory is hazy. Anybody else have an idea on recommended amp burn in time?

For Romania, well we have one other member from your country and I went to visit there just out of plain curiosity about Eastern Europe for my first time last year. You can actually see a few travel photos and a comment I posted here awhile back by searching the keyword Romania on this thread. Shipping must be fast from Poland though.


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 19, 2019)

Yes indeed, $ 99 for a single RFT EL11 is absurd, specially when NOS Valvos appear regularly at about $ 90 or so for a pair.  I think prices of RFTs will go way down as soon as a new batch appears...as far as I know RFT produced a lot of EL11s, under their own brand and later mostly for Telefunken (and maybe also for Siemens and Valvo, who knows ?) after TFK ceased producing this line (in the late sixties ?)  For example, it is well known that all Siemens branded EL34s, and a lot  of TFKs of this and  other types were in fact made by RFT in East Germany.

I first learned about the sound quality of RFT tubes with the EL12N, an excellent power in Euforia.  Later on, I needed an “ultra neutral” driver to balance the warmth of the EL38s in my power amp, and while the famous TFKs and Siemens ECC81 more or less did the job, the  cheap (and strongly built) RFTs ECC81 were a revelation in terms of transparency and sonic accuracy...precisely controlling the exhuberance (and specially the bass) of the  “wild horses” as I call the 38s as powers.   Anyway, the RFT EL11s are great  drivers in Euforia, but not at that ridiculous prices !


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 19, 2019)

As far as I remember the Telefunken & similar RFT  EL11 I got two years ago were closer to $15 for 1-2. They have quite good bass definition, detail, dynamics and transparency but don't come quite close to the valvo 11s in terms of organic lifelike and holographic sound and 'natural' bass so not worth $90 each


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 19, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> As far as I remember I got the Telefunken & similar RFT  EL11 were closer to $15 for 1-2, two years ago. They have quite good bass definition, detail, dynamics and transparency but don't come quite close to the valvo 11s in terms of organic lifelike and holographic sound and 'natural' bass so not worth $90 each



Hi DL, after all that rave about the Valvos you (and H1) left me with no other choice  than to try to get some. Not that easy to find, but finally located a nice trio in Germany...and one of them is a forties vintage “black glass”.  The unobtainable “mesh plates”,  maybe...?


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## Scutey

Johnnysound said:


> Yes indeed, $ 99 for a single RFT EL11 is absurd, specially when NOS Valvos appear regularly at about $ 90 or so for a pair.  I think prices of RFTs will go way down as soon as a new batch appears...as far as I know RFT produced a lot of EL11s, under their own brand and later mostly for Telefunken (and maybe also for Siemens and Valvo, who knows ?) after TFK ceased producing this line (in the late sixties ?)  For example, it is well known that all Siemens branded EL34s, and a lot  of TFKs of this and  other types were in fact made by RFT in East Germany.
> 
> I first learned about the sound quality of RFT tubes with the EL12N, an excellent power in Euforia.  Later on, I needed an “ultra neutral” driver to balance the warmth of the EL38s in my power amp, and while the famous TFKs and Siemens ECC81 more or less did the job, the  cheap (and strongly built) RFTs ECC81 were a revelation in terms of transparency and sonic accuracy...precisely controlling the exhuberance (and specially the bass) of the  “wild horses” as I call the 38s as powers.   Anyway, the RFT EL11s are great  drivers in Euforia, but not at that ridiculous prices !


Wow $99 for a single RFT?, that makes the £40 I  paid for NOS pair a few months ago seem like a bargain!.


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## connieflyer

That old supply and demand kicking in to high gear. Johnnysound, if one is a black glass mesh plate, you will be a lucky fellow to be sure.


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi DL, after all that rave about the Valvos you (and H1) left me with no other choice  than to try to get some. Not that easy to find, but finally located a nice trio in Germany...and one of them is a forties vintage “black glass”.  The unobtainable “mesh plates”,  maybe...?



Oh dear, J...at this rate, you could well be citing me as prime cause of financial penury lol! ...but hey, _join the club!! 
_
However, well done on bagging those Valvos, and who knows, you just _might_ have struck gold with that oldie black glass - I do hope you've been lucky, after my and @connieflyer 's teasing!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

By the way @Dobrescu George , as you mentioned you're curious to put Euforia through her paces, you might also be interested in what led to its development post-Elise : ie. in my first post on this thread. And the birth of what was to become Elise itself is covered in the first post of the original 'previously prototype' thread.

You have the Kennerton Thror and Empyrean? I will be especially keen to hear your impressions/comparison of the two...in my own system, with mesh plated Valvo EL11s driving EL39 powers, the Empys are performing extremely well indeed (couldn't ask for anything more in fact!! ).

Hope you don't have to wait _too_ long for your curiosity to be satisfied ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. I'm sure you're already au fait with the need for decent burn-in of both amp and tubes, but some of us have found Euforia to keep improving even up to 150+ hours (often also depending upon the actual tubes used...).


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## mordy

Hi h1,
Could you elaborate on how different tubes affect the burn in?


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## hypnos1 (Jul 19, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Could you elaborate on how different tubes affect the burn in?



Hi mordy.

Although hard to actually prove incontrovertibly, of course, given one would need several amps side by side for real time comparison!, I myself have come to suspect this anomaly from the reports of those with new amps, and the apparent differing lengths of time before burn-in 'changes' cease to be noticed. Given that the amp itself should pretty well be a constant, compared to other similar models, the only other variable _within the amp_ will be the tubes themselves. As many have gone quickly from the stock tubes to others in the same _family_, as opposed to 'alternative', non configured-for tubes, this would point to these _different_ tubes somehow possibly contributing to the variance in burn-in time. I have also noticed this on occasion when some folks have actually gone quickly to 'alternative' tubes similar to other users, but from a different manufacturer.

Just as with the amp obviously needing longer to 'adjust' to tubes not actually configured for, so I propose that although the _spec_ sheet may look identical from different makes of the 'same' tube family, the sometimes quite marked differences in actual construction - especially internal component size/design and placement/metallurgy/coatings etc. _must_ react differently to the amp's input _and_ output circuitry, thereby affecting/determining the length of burn-in required by the amp itself, in addition to that of the tubes.

To me, at least, this seems to indicate there may well be _some_ truth in my conjecture...but would welcome any other possible explanations...except that "everyone's different"...please!...CJ


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## mordy

Another one of the mysteries of tube amps......But your explanation seems plausible.
Another thing I don't understand is why an amp that hums may stop humming just by switching the positions of the tubes.....


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## barontan2418

mordy said:


> Another one of the mysteries of tube amps......But your explanation seems plausible.
> Another thing I don't understand is why an amp that hums may stop humming just by switching the positions of the tubes.....


This is now my first IA, usually driver tubes but on occasion powers also. No idea why but it very often works.


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## Johnnysound (Jul 20, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> That old supply and demand kicking in to high gear. Johnnysound, if one is a black glass mesh plate, you will be a lucky fellow to be sure.



Yes indeed  CF,  in the last few months the offer of nice old tubes (specially european) at reasonable prices seems to have shrink alarmingly, and the prices have went way up...hope this is only momentary.  Regarding the “black” Valvo, I am full of faith...this one MUST be a mesh plate !!

Another matter is whether the mesh plates by themselves are the key factor in the sound of the tube....or it is the better general construction/materials, and build quality of the older tube ?  The EL38s are a good case in point:  the older balloon “black glass”  sound kind of sweeter than the newer “clear glass”...with similar plates, but the old one looks  more carefully built all around, including  welded black plates and gold grids...may be the same with the Valvos ?


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Yes indeed  CF,  in the last few months the offer of nice old tubes (specially european) at reasonable prices seems to have shrink alarmingly, and the prices have went way up...hope this is only momentary.  Regarding the “black” Valvo, I am full of faith...this one MUST be a mesh plate !!
> 
> Another matter is whether the mesh plates by themselves are the key factor in the sound of the tube....or it is the better general construction/materials, and build quality of the older tube ?  The EL38s are a good case in point:  the older balloon “black glass”  sound kind of sweeter than the newer “clear glass”...with similar plates, but the old one looks  more carefully built all around, including  welded black plates and gold grids...may be the same with the Valvos ?



Hi J. Yep, it is indeed rather alarming to see the fairly recent change (for the worse!) in availability and price of many old tubes...particularly the ones we like in our amps lol! . I know that supplies wax and wane, but I've a horrible feeling that finally, stocks of these are few and far between - the likely owners now undoubtedly getting on in years!! 

Re. the mesh-plated versions, it's quite possible that sometimes they reflect better overall tube quality, but I must admit that of my various black glass Valvo EL11s of the same (old) age, only a very few had the mesh plates, even though otherwise the tubes looked absolutely identical... even down to very similar numbering (which caused me disappointment, to say the least...could have sworn I'd struck gold when buying lol!). So my fingers are still crossed for you...

And re. the differences in performance between the older EL38s and later clear glass Mullards, they do look quite a bit differently constructed, in different bottles - especially between the black plates of the older versions and the grey of the later ones. Also, the wire to the top cap runs directly from the anode plate in the earlies, but from a spur in the later, which _might_ just have a bearing?...(I always believe in the least possible connections, as you well know! ).

Something else I've noticed when working on the various types of EL38, the (also early) silver-banded Philips (France)/Dario/RT 38s have the most pristine looking wires that go to the pins of any tube I've come across. Not even the slightest hint of corrosion, which is miraculous given their age! Most also have the black plate of the early 'balloon' Mullard, and look identical to the EL39 apart from base size and getter(s). And there are even occasionally some that have *dual* getters, as does the 39...another lucky find for the fortunate, as they also _sound_ pretty well the same as the 39! ...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Jul 21, 2019)

mordy said:


> Another one of the mysteries of tube amps......But your explanation seems plausible.
> Another thing I don't understand is why an amp that hums may stop humming just by switching the positions of the tubes.....



Yo mordy...these wonderfully 'exotic' glass marvels - along with what drives them - certainly can be fickle, and sometimes _very_ frustrating (no wonder I often refer to our amps, including tubes, as "She"..."Who must be obeyed?" lol ). The way different tubes interact with the amp itself - as in my last post on this subject - seems to be a topic on which there's scant information about unfortunately. Surely there's still a few 'old timers' around who became redundant with the rise of transistors, but who retain intimate knowledge of such things? Never seem to hear much about/from them alas...

That humming anomaly you mentioned certainly is one of the stranger head scratchers, as opposed to tubes that like to scare you for a while before deciding to settle down lol!! Perhaps once again it's related to the interaction between differences in both the tube in question _and_ those in the amp...especially when, like ours, you have dual runs of resistors and capacitors, no two ever likely to be _absolutely_ identical (unless made from the finest materials/primed/exhaustively tested, measured and matched...and priced accordingly!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


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## Mh996

A week-and-a-half (25-30hr) update. Euforia is breaking in very nicely. At first she was VERY dynamic, which was especially compounded by how dynamic my Focal Clears are, but this has mellowed out nicely to fit my selection of classical music. I also initially found the soundstage, while incredibly wide, to be fairly shallow, which made imaging rather un-precise for large orchestral pieces. This too has begun to improve as the Sylvania power tubes have begun breaking in. This may still be the only point of comparison where the advantage goes to Mojo, though my reading through this thread suggests this may be fixed through aftermarket tubes. Speaking of which, it sounds like the EL39's are the premier choice in upgraded power tubes. This may be the second think I upgrade in my system, behind maybe acquiring a linear PSU. The gold PSVanes seem to be of superior quality in the new-stock tube market, so I may well wait to upgrade the drivers. My new questions are: does anyone have experience w/ the 2018 model and upgrading from the gold PSVanes to, say, the EL11s which are highly-acclaimed here. Also, it looks like an adapter would be necessary use EL39s as a power tube. It looks like some people here got some Chinese lemons for converters. Does anyone have a reference for reliable adapters? This may still be out a ways, as I'd like to finish burn-in before moving up in tubes (plus I've only come across a single Philips EL39 on eBay). Thanks for the help and terrific advice on this thread.


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## DecentLevi (Jul 21, 2019)

Mh996 said:


> A week-and-a-half (25-30hr) update. Euforia is breaking in very nicely. At first she was VERY dynamic, which was especially compounded by how dynamic my Focal Clears are, but this has mellowed out nicely to fit my selection of classical music. I also initially found the soundstage, while incredibly wide, to be fairly shallow, which made imaging rather un-precise for large orchestral pieces. This too has begun to improve as the Sylvania power tubes have begun breaking in. This may still be the only point of comparison where the advantage goes to Mojo, though my reading through this thread suggests this may be fixed through aftermarket tubes. Speaking of which, it sounds like the EL39's are the premier choice in upgraded power tubes. This may be the second think I upgrade in my system, behind maybe acquiring a linear PSU. The gold PSVanes seem to be of superior quality in the new-stock tube market, so I may well wait to upgrade the drivers. My new questions are: does anyone have experience w/ the 2018 model and upgrading from the gold PSVanes to, say, the EL11s which are highly-acclaimed here. Also, it looks like an adapter would be necessary use EL39s as a power tube. It looks like some people here got some Chinese lemons for converters. Does anyone have a reference for reliable adapters? This may still be out a ways, as I'd like to finish burn-in before moving up in tubes (plus I've only come across a single Philips EL39 on eBay). Thanks for the help and terrific advice on this thread.


Hey M9 I'll chime in with a few things here.
About going from stock to to EL39 + EL11, that's one humongous leap, considering those of us who have been here from the beginnings of Elise and literally going through many dozens upon dozens of various tubes before discovering these babies. Thanks to the power of the Internet age you're armed with information to bypass all these other tubes and take the leap - it's a top performer but I can't guarantee if it will be your favorite, and another downside is you would have less options to roll such as 6080, 6N7 (metal VT-96 that needs adapter), etc. Let us know what your sonic preferences are and we can point you in the right direction (EG faster bass, more / less slam, brighter / darker, more / less lush, etc.) but I'd recommend to wait until somewhere around the 100-hr. burn in point for the amps' sound to settle first.

The only EL39 adapters are currently the ones hand-made from our fellow member Hypnos1, though he has recently expressed being a little overhelmed vs. family life so you'd have to check with him. I do believe he recently mentioned about a rare source for a few more EL39's still available at a decent price, so either search recent pages for it or feel free to ask him. Without question IMO and with others too, Valvo EL11 are the top driver tubes on this amp. These are basically disappearing so you may not find any. Though an alternative is Tungsram EL11 which is supposed to be identical. Valvo EL12 (and Tungsram EL12) is also quite comparable in performance as a driver, though made to be a power tube so it seems to not synergise quite as well as Valvo EL11's; EG not quite as dynamic or detailed, but still a very pleasing sound - and excellent as a power tube. Also a warning if using EL12's as drivers you should only pair them with lower current draw powers such as EL12, EL11, EL32, EL38 or EL39, rather than the 6080 / 6AS7G's which draw more aH current. A good way to find these rare tubes is to search on a multi-geo eBay etc. search site like Geo-ship.com or Hifishark.com, the 2nd of which allows you to save a seach for a future notification when one becomes available.

The EL11's and EL12's both require this adapter, which is the same for both. However the absolutely stunning performance of EL39 + Valvo EL11 (Or even EL12 Spez which is an alltime top power tube to consider as well, needing it's own special adapter), keep in mind that I do say these tubes are generally tuned more for analogue / percussive genres such as perhaps rock, jazz, folk and retro analogue electronic and pop music. For lossy or recent digitally recorded electronic music I still have a strong preference for 6080 and / or 6BL7 as power tubes (Bendix slotted graphite plate 6080 or GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 6BL7 - all which don't need an adapter; of which are combined as powers only if using an externally powered multi-adapter), along with the miniature driver tubes the likes of Tesla ECC88 or Tungsram E80CC which each need their own adapters as well. These type of combinations are more 'solid state' and less organic sounding with a more tightly controlled bass a perhaps lush mids for a sound that works better for the likes of techno, electro, hip-hop and "drum & bass" with closed-back headphones, while many of the EL series tubes seem to work best with acoustic type genres on open-back headphones. For me, it's great to have both and I'm STILL in the process (nearing the end) of discovering new tube combinations. I can definitely say it's nice to have a variety of tubes that work with all genres so I can roll different combos and headphones to match the genre I'm listening to.


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## DecentLevi

made several edits to above post ^


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## Johnnysound (Jul 22, 2019)

..


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## andybo

Is HD800S with Euforia a good combination. I like classical music. Thanks.


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## DecentLevi (Jul 22, 2019)

OK guys I'm offloading interesting discoveries from recent tube rolling with the EL39 for you all.

Here are some standard single-tube-per-socket pairings EL39 on the Euforia as I found them (all IMO / YMMV)
First up was EL39 powers with Valvo EL11 drivers. For some reason the pairing was awful on my system. A strange quirk with a semi-faulty tube that sounds absolutely impeccable as drivers with an externally-heated 6x power combo, but the standard way there was a channel imbalance and volume break-up. Do note your experience should definitely be quite the opposite from mine with a good pair of Valvo or Tungsram EL11's because the EL11's indeed have IMMENSE synergy with the EL39's in general (see below).

The following were done with RFT EL11 (same as Telefunken) as drivers:
I went on to comparing the EL39 with other top EL tubes. EL12 Spez were fairly close as powers but maybe not as much realism and bass definition. Moving on to Valvo EL12 as powers I was quite impressed with a very vivid, very well extended sound with good dynamics and nice bass. Put the EL39 back in and it's like what was a great recording is now a real life experience! Imaging, instrument separation and 3D sounndstage improved a good amount - super resolving and organic! The EL12's sounded slightly shouty and sibilant vs. the EL39's which was perfection / neitrality in the making. Next up was EL38 vs. 39. The EL38's sounded extremely good, but putting back in the EL39's makes the 38's by contrast sound somewhat mid-centric, tubey and modestly artificial vs. a super lifelike presentation with the ABSOLUTE perfection in every element you can name from bass definition to dynamics, extension, soundstage, etc.

The following were done with the EL39 as powers:
Valvo EL12 sounded good tonally but failed badly with this pairing in dynamics and synergy. 6N7 / VT-96 sounded better also with a great tone but still not snappy enough. EL32 sounded better yet with a very pleasing tone, yet still retaining their modestly thin and polite sound. EL38 sounded more robust and dynamic, yet still retaining their modestly euphonic and ever so slightly off kilter tone (IMO). Valvo EL11 from the working channel sounded like it must have the best potential, and it's somewhat inferior RFT EL11 basically stole the show, as well as the EL12 Spez as drivers. EL39 + EL12 Spez drivers is a fantastic pairing. Both of these came dangerously close to my best ever externally heated combo (4x EL32 + 2x EL39 powers with Valvo EL11 as drivers) which had a distinctly larger soundstage / instrument separation and harder hitting dynamics, in place of some vividness. Regardless with this single-tube setup you could almost ask for nothing more: liquid, smooth, detailed, dynamic, immersive 3D imaging and almost unbeatable PRaT. The RFT EL11 compared with the EL12 Spez retained the fantastic synergy with great detail and dynamics, but with a more overall energetic and euphonic sound, yet not retaining quite the same ability to handle complex bass layering. Overall I agree with the EL39 + Valvo EL11 pairing as the top ever (provided you find a good pair), and tied in 2nd place with EL39 as powers is both RFT EL11 (same as Telefunken) and EL12 Spez, both which provide a nice contrast in flavors with the EL39.


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## DecentLevi (Jul 22, 2019)

@andybo I can tell you with utmost certainty that at least the original HD-800 pairs marvelously with the Euforia, as the pairing with the Euforia 2018 edition at CanJam really impressed me as having great synergy and soundstage; and all of the above was done with the HD-600 with upgraded silver cable. As long as the impedance is the same and general tonality is similar, I'd say it should sound amazing. Though I don't believe I've tried the HD800S, so you'd have to ask someone else for a better answer for the pairing with the "S" version.


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## teknorob23

Quick question to  Euforia Elders. I bought a NOS Valvo EL11 for 11 euros, it arrived today and sounds as it should, but its different shape to the other 2 i have, more balloon-like and shorter in the body, so i was hoping someone could shed some light on its identity heres some pics. Any suggestions as always very gratefully received rob


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## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> A week-and-a-half (25-30hr) update. Euforia is breaking in very nicely. At first she was VERY dynamic, which was especially compounded by how dynamic my Focal Clears are, but this has mellowed out nicely to fit my selection of classical music. I also initially found the soundstage, while incredibly wide, to be fairly shallow, which made imaging rather un-precise for large orchestral pieces. This too has begun to improve as the Sylvania power tubes have begun breaking in. This may still be the only point of comparison where the advantage goes to Mojo, though my reading through this thread suggests this may be fixed through aftermarket tubes. Speaking of which, it sounds like the EL39's are the premier choice in upgraded power tubes. This may be the second think I upgrade in my system, behind maybe acquiring a linear PSU. The gold PSVanes seem to be of superior quality in the new-stock tube market, so I may well wait to upgrade the drivers. My new questions are: does anyone have experience w/ the 2018 model and upgrading from the gold PSVanes to, say, the EL11s which are highly-acclaimed here. Also, it looks like an adapter would be necessary use EL39s as a power tube. It looks like some people here got some Chinese lemons for converters. Does anyone have a reference for reliable adapters? This may still be out a ways, as I'd like to finish burn-in before moving up in tubes (plus I've only come across a single Philips EL39 on eBay). Thanks for the help and terrific advice on this thread.



Hi M...glad to hear you are indeed noticing the improvements that will continue to come with more burn-in yet. And along the way perhaps you might well experience a phenomenon that a good few of us have noticed...ie. a sudden _leap_ in performance when returning after a long cooling off period (happened to me with Elise as well as Euforia, and was quite startling lol!).

Some very useful info from @DecentLevi and @Johnnysound , which will probably need careful re-read - or several in fact!!  Re. the EL39, there are indeed no commercially available adapters I'm afraid, and the mod I used successfully on my own ones for the EL3*8, *enabling use of the 39, didn't work with the Chinese ones alas.

At present, supplies of the EL39 seem to have dried up - and that Philips on ebay is rather expensive! The other (French) source I mentioned a while back looks a non-starter unfortunately, so we'll probably have to hope more stocks appear in the future (but from J's info on their limited production, that doesn't look very hopeful I'm afraid).
So your best bet is probably to stick with the EL38, which is still an excellent tube (adapters from xulingmrs on ebay)...especially the early Philips (France)/Dario/RT versions with the silver band at the base, and which are closer to the EL39 (but also hard to find now, and more expensive than the clear glass Mullard).

So, as many have already said here...no rush...take your time. And ENJOY!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## teknorob23

teknorob23 said:


> Quick question to  Euforia Elders. I bought a NOS Valvo EL11 for 11 euros, it arrived today and sounds as it should, but its different shape to the other 2 i have, more balloon-like and shorter in the body, so i was hoping someone could shed some light on its identity heres some pics. Any suggestions as always very gratefully received rob




This is the first time i've used this new set of adapter and i'm getting a very low-level humming from both adapters. I have checked them using other tubes not just the one pictured here and i'm getting the same result. I bought these a month or two back, so wandered is anyone else experiencing and similar problems? Annoyingly these two were replacements sent to me because the first batch sent were faulty too. thanks


----------



## mordy

teknorob23 said:


> This is the first time i've used this new set of adapter and i'm getting a very low-level humming from both adapters. I have checked them using other tubes not just the one pictured here and i'm getting the same result. I bought these a month or two back, so wandered is anyone else experiencing and similar problems? Annoyingly these two were replacements sent to me because the first batch sent were faulty too. thanks


Do the adapters have an anode cap and wire?


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## hypnos1

andybo said:


> Is HD800S with Euforia a good combination. I like classical music. Thanks.



Hi andybo...and welcome to the thread. Do you already own a Euforia, or contemplating one? A friend of mine has the 800 (v1), and with upgraded cables especially, they sound tremendous with Euforia...excellent pairing. But I must admit, the EL tubes as both drivers and powers also help bring out the best in them lol!  Our good friend @connieflyer here simply loves his 800S with this amp, so it looks like Euforia matches well with them both......(as it does with the Beyer T1s, and most suredly my Meze Empyreans!! ).


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## mordy

teknorob23 said:


> This is the first time i've used this new set of adapter and i'm getting a very low-level humming from both adapters. I have checked them using other tubes not just the one pictured here and i'm getting the same result. I bought these a month or two back, so wandered is anyone else experiencing and similar problems? Annoyingly these two were replacements sent to me because the first batch sent were faulty too. thanks





teknorob23 said:


> This is the first time i've used this new set of adapter and i'm getting a very low-level humming from both adapters. I have checked them using other tubes not just the one pictured here and i'm getting the same result. I bought these a month or two back, so wandered is anyone else experiencing and similar problems? Annoyingly these two were replacements sent to me because the first batch sent were faulty too. thanks


Hi t23,
I have around a dozen EL11 tubes. Here is a picture of three Valvo tubes - each one is different in size and how it looks (left three tubes in picture). On the right are two Loewe-Opta EL11 tubes - the one all the way on the left is much smaller. Then there are Telefunken tubular EL11 tubes as well. Other brands are Philips and Tungsram.



I would not worry much about the size if they sound similar.


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Quick question to  Euforia Elders. I bought a NOS Valvo EL11 for 11 euros, it arrived today and sounds as it should, but its different shape to the other 2 i have, more balloon-like and shorter in the body, so i was hoping someone could shed some light on its identity heres some pics. Any suggestions as always very gratefully received rob



Hi t...there certainly do seem to be quite a few different bottles used for the EL11, as well as internal coatings. All have the same 'flavour', but there are subtle (and noticeable) differences between them...eg. the black glass TFK vs its sister TFK that looks exactly like - and sounds more like - the East German RFT tube (as mentioned recently by @Johnnysound . The same goes for the Valvos...eg. once again the black glass (which I myself prefer) vs the grey glass. I don't know about your new larger bottle tube - which you got for a steal, to be sure lol!! - but it looks just like the one used for my Philips (Australia) EL3N*G* that also has the (woven) mesh plate of my Valvo EL11 and black internal coating...and sounds identical...(have you checked the plate in your new tube lol?!! ).



teknorob23 said:


> This is the first time i've used this new set of adapter and i'm getting a very low-level humming from both adapters. I have checked them using other tubes not just the one pictured here and i'm getting the same result. I bought these a month or two back, so wandered is anyone else experiencing and similar problems? Annoyingly these two were replacements sent to me because the first batch sent were faulty too. thanks



Yikes t...don't say these 2 adapters are faulty also! Must admit I'm always sad to hear of such things when folks have to (of necessity) rely on Chinese adapters...even though they seem to perform OK in most instances. Such is the possible downside of my alternative tube adapting alas . Sometimes it appears such humming can subside with longer use...might be worth giving it a try. If worst comes to worst, once things quieten down somewhat with the approach of Autumn, I hope to be returning to making a few adapters for those in need lol . Good luck in the meantime, mon ami...CJ


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi t23,
> I have around a dozen EL11 tubes. Here is a picture of three Valvo tubes - each one is different in size and how it looks (left three tubes in picture). On the right are two Loewe-Opta EL11 tubes - the one all the way on the left is much smaller. Then there are Telefunken tubular EL11 tubes as well. Other brands are Philips and Tungsram.
> 
> I would not worry much about the size if they sound similar.



Nice looking tubes, mordy......


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## mordy

A little off topic, but to me, these are the most beautiful tubes aesthetically....




Tung Sol 6F8G (can be used in Euforia)


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## connieflyer

Just a quick update, CJ, I own the Sennheiser 800 not the 800s. D800 is a pure sound without that little resonator in the earpiece. As far as how they sound, they are fantastic. Moving to the e l 39 has a power tube brought the bass out in these like I have never heard before. The base was always good if there was based present it showed it it just wasn't that pounding type of bass that you get with some of the other phones. A lot of people thought it was weak I just thought it was right. With the various El tubes it has continued to improve in the base Department I'm moving to the Dario he'll 38 and the e l 39 the base is very much not only present but more impactful and quantity wise seems to be increase as well. Soundstage is still magnificent upper frequencies are beautiful. Orchestral works for these phones like they were made for each other. Hope that helps the member with a little more info using the Euforia


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just a quick update, CJ, I own the Sennheiser 800 not the 800s. D800 is a pure sound without that little resonator in the earpiece. As far as how they sound, they are fantastic. Moving to the e l 39 has a power tube brought the bass out in these like I have never heard before. The base was always good if there was based present it showed it it just wasn't that pounding type of bass that you get with some of the other phones. A lot of people thought it was weak I just thought it was right. With the various El tubes it has continued to improve in the base Department I'm moving to the Dario he'll 38 and the e l 39 the base is very much not only present but more impactful and quantity wise seems to be increase as well. Soundstage is still magnificent upper frequencies are beautiful. Orchestral works for these phones like they were made for each other. Hope that helps the member with a little more info using the Euforia



Oops sorry...yes, cf, the 800 (v1) for you. Wasn't it dear departed Phil (pctazhp) who had the S? I wonder how the retuned v2 would fare with the enhanced bass of the EL38/39...perhaps a tad OTT lol? All I can say is I agree wholeheartedly that v1 and Euforia make excellent partners...BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Yes CJ oh, it was Phil that had the 800s. Still miss that old guy, the three of us certainly had some good times in the early days did we not?


----------



## andybo

Hello. Sorry my English. Im german.  I have now Euforia and a HD800s. Im in burn in.. Im not so happy with the soundsatage.  What for after market tubes should i get for: Big soundstage with same detail, neutral level in the stock tubes.  Where can i buy them?  For me the soundstae is ab bit narrow. With my Brysteon BHA 1 the sund stage was a bit opener.  Perhaps you can help me about after market tubes for Euforia. ( Driver or and power tubes )  Perhaps i can less the driver tubes and change the power tubes?  The problem is the narrow sound stage with stock tubes because i heard the HD800s more open and wide. I have a cardas clear cord for HD800s.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 23, 2019)

@andybo I recommend EL12 + EL11.  RFT or Telefunken EL12, or Valvo EL12 for slightly darker and larger soundstage. RFT or Telefunken EL11, unless you get real lucky and find a Valvo. These should be cheaper and easy to find, have good soundstage and detail, and bass. You'd just need 4 of these EL11 adapters mentioned recently. If you can also find an EL12 Spez that would do great to roll a variety of sound, as this is a slightly brighter, more detailed tube with more realistic presentation - though this needs this EL12 Spez adapter. If going this route I recommend ordering the adapters first thing because they are on a slow route from Hong Kong. It's generally accepted the EL11, 32, 38, etc. are superior on these amps as drivers in quite a few ways than 6SN7 such as in imaging and dynamics, etc. I'm not sure I recommend the tonality of EL38 would match the HD800's, both being modestly euphonic and even mid-emphasized.


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi t...there certainly do seem to be quite a few different bottles used for the EL11, as well as internal coatings. All have the same 'flavour', but there are subtle (and noticeable) differences between them...eg. the black glass TFK vs its sister TFK that looks exactly like - and sounds more like - the East German RFT tube (as mentioned recently by @Johnnysound . The same goes for the Valvos...eg. once again the black glass (which I myself prefer) vs the grey glass. I don't know about your new larger bottle tube - which you got for a steal, to be sure lol!! - but it looks just like the one used for my Philips (Australia) EL3N*G* that also has the (woven) mesh plate of my Valvo EL11 and black internal coating...and sounds identical...(have you checked the plate in your new tube lol?!! ).
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes t...don't say these 2 adapters are faulty also! Must admit I'm always sad to hear of such things when folks have to (of necessity) rely on Chinese adapters...even though they seem to perform OK in most instances. Such is the possible downside of my alternative tube adapting alas . Sometimes it appears such humming can subside with longer use...might be worth giving it a try. If worst comes to worst, once things quieten down somewhat with the approach of Autumn, I hope to be returning to making a few adapters for those in need lol . Good luck in the meantime, mon ami...CJ



Thanks for the advice. its weird i only seem to have problem with their EL12-6sn7 adapters. I have 4 other adapters for different tubes and they all work fine, but 4 of these and none of them have worked properly. I'll try to summon the energy/ patience to go through another returns process but the good news is the converted valvos you supplied me are sill going strong and despite one being initially temperamental they've been running with zero noise other than the sonic loveliness they send to my Stellias. Of course i would love a pair of patented CJ boutique range adapters but only if they ever become available on open market, but only ever at the makers leisure  

thank you also for reassurance @mordy and sorry if i've reduced the thread to sounding like a teenage boys problem page... i'll put it away and stop worrying about its size and shape


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 24, 2019)

@teknorob23 I would usually not attribute a hum problem to the adapter at all. As long as there is some (even distorted) sound coming out of both tubes, that may mean the wiring actually is right. Here are a few other things you can do to possibly cure the hum:

- Use a fine knife or sandpaper or even rubbing alcohol to clean or scrape off any corrosion on the tube pins
- Touch the RCA connection on the back of the amp directly with your finger with no music playing. If the hum stops, you need to find a way to ground your amp either with a wire around this or from the ground wire of the power cable
- Rotate your tubes R to L or L to R. Especially since these are EL tubes you can actually run them as drivers or powers. So see if switching them from front/back fixes the hum. The only downside here is if using EL12 as drivers you should stick only with EL series tubes as powers (EL11, 12, 32, 38, etc. powers with these) otherwise with a 6080 or 6AS7 could overlead the transformer.
- If you're receiving hum with any of the tubes requiring an external wire such as EL32, EL12 Spez, EL38 and EL39, the reason is highly likely to be solved with a clamp on the  external wire. I have several of these, called either a ferrite chocke or ferrite bead which solves the hum using these as powers; but they don't need it as drivers.


----------



## ZRW0

Hello,

Well it's good to see new comers on this thread and to the Euforia's realm.
On my side, I'm at the farewell stage, as I'm afraid I'm leaving this realm : I had the opportunity to try another tube-amp a couple of weeks ago (playing in another league), and got totally hooked by it. 

So, I'm selling my Euforia and the collection of tubes I bought for it this last year.
Before putting everything on e-bay, if some of the forumers here are interested by some of the below for a very fair price, please PM me. 
TS 5998 & 7236, GEC 2523, KenRad VT231 & VT99, Sylvania 6SN7GTB, RCA 5692 & VT231 & 7N7, Telefunken EL12Spez & EL11, Haltron/Mullard EL38, Mullard EL32...  

I wished to thank everybody here, and more especially @hypnos1 for his enthusiasm on this thread, his trials and discoveries, and the nice tube adapters he built for some of us.

Cheers, and see you around.

Erwan.


----------



## DecentLevi (Jul 24, 2019)

@ZRW0 By all means please tell us which amp impressed you more. I've been a little guilty of de-railing things here from time to time, and we'll try not bite you (not too hard) LOL. It would be interesting to know. If you can't at all get yourself to post it here, you can send it to me by PM. Thanks and best of luck


----------



## ZRW0

DecentLevi said:


> @ZRW0 By all means please tell us which amp impressed you more. I've been a little guilty of de-railing things here from time to time, and we'll try not bite you (not too hard) LOL. It would be interesting to know. If you can't at all get yourself to post it here, you can send it to me by PM. Thanks and best of luck



Italian name, but Dutch brand.
From one of your post, you tried the same at a recent CanJam...


----------



## connieflyer

So as not to disrupt the thread with talk about other amplifiers let's try to keep it here about a Euforia  with all the hard work that CJ has put into this thread it would be nice to respect him and his work on this to keep it within the bounds of what the title of this thread is. Just saying guys


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi t...there certainly do seem to be quite a few different bottles used for the EL11, as well as internal coatings. All have the same 'flavour', but there are subtle (and noticeable) differences between them...eg. the black glass TFK vs its sister TFK that looks exactly like - and sounds more like - the East German RFT tube (as mentioned recently by @Johnnysound . The same goes for the Valvos...eg. once again the black glass (which I myself prefer) vs the grey glass. I don't know about your new larger bottle tube - which you got for a steal, to be sure lol!! - but it looks just like the one used for my Philips (Australia) EL3N*G* that also has the (woven) mesh plate of my Valvo EL11 and black internal coating...and sounds identical...(have you checked the plate in your new tube lol?!! ).
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes t...don't say these 2 adapters are faulty also! Must admit I'm always sad to hear of such things when folks have to (of necessity) rely on Chinese adapters...even though they seem to perform OK in most instances. Such is the possible downside of my alternative tube adapting alas . Sometimes it appears such humming can subside with longer use...might be worth giving it a try. If worst comes to worst, once things quieten down somewhat with the approach of Autumn, I hope to be returning to making a few adapters for those in need lol . Good luck in the meantime, mon ami...CJ



You don't always have to rely on Chinese adapters. I'm building custom adapters and I'm from Europe


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @andybo ...Stage should also continue to open up with much more burn-in yet - give it 100+hours at least. Then, I personally would replace the stock *power* tubes with EL38s first..._far_ superior IMHO! I'm still in the process of sorting and testing some of my spare tubes for others, but may well be able to help you out there also...don't want folks paying the £40 plus amounts often asked for if at all possible (ie.for the later, _totally clear_ glass Mullards, including their CV450. But the earlier _silver banded_ Philips (France) versions command higher prices because they are in fact a good bit better overall, especially in the bass). Then, perhaps, drivers also from the EL family could be worth looking into...they partner EL power tubes extremely well. But no rush, take your time!! 

@ZRW0 ...sorry to hear you're leaving us, and thanks for your kind words. Good luck with your pastures new...and hope you find a community as friendly and helpful as ours lol! 

@Deyan ...nice to see someone else in the market besides the Chinese making adapters. Perhaps you could send us photos of your own, along with approximate costs (including shipping to various destinations) for such as an EL11/12, and also the EL38 to 6SN7/6AS7G adapter. As each individual driver and power tube socket is wired in _parallel_, either of the g, K and a pins of the 6SN7 base can be used.
ps. What type of wire do you use, please?


----------



## Deyan

@hypnos1 Well I haven't made any of adapters you mentioned ( because no one asked me to ).
But nevertheless here are some samples of my work:
EL3 to C3g adapters


 


Dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapter ( the base on those adapters can rotate )


 


 
6V6 to C3g adapter


 
6SN7 to 6DE7 adapter ( with a bias adjusting circuit for Woo WA6SE )


 
One of my most complicated ones. A dual EF50 to 6N3P with a separate power supply for the filament ( since the amp was rather dinky )


 

There are more but I those are enough for the time being.
About the wiring I normally use copper. But the buyer has the final say on that.


----------



## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> @teknorob23 I would usually not attribute a hum problem to the adapter at all. As long as there is some (even distorted) sound coming out of both tubes, that may mean the wiring actually is right. Here are a few other things you can do to possibly cure the hum:
> 
> - Use a fine knife or sandpaper or even rubbing alcohol to clean or scrape off any corrosion on the tube pins
> - Touch the RCA connection on the back of the amp directly with your finger with no music playing. If the hum stops, you need to find a way to ground your amp either with a wire around this or from the ground wire of the power cable
> ...



Sorry for not coming back to thank you, but that annoying thing we call work has been getting in the way of the important things in life this week. I had tried the L R rotating and they're both creating the hum on both sides. i have tried 3 different sets of tubes and the adapters work fine/silently with the EL12Ns, but i get and identical humming with EL11 Valvo and the phillips el11 mini-watts. This seems bizarre but i'm guessing i'm missing something

I havent tried running them in the power sockets, or checked the rca's for earth issues, but i'm guess the later is eliminated as a possible issue by the fact that the EL12ns/adpaters dont have the issue. I will try this tonight anway to just to double check.

thanks again


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry for not coming back to thank you, but that annoying thing we call work has been getting in the way of the important things in life this week. I had tried the L R rotating and they're both creating the hum on both sides. i have tried 3 different sets of tubes and the adapters work fine/silently with the EL12Ns, but i get and identical humming with EL11 Valvo and the phillips el11 mini-watts. This seems bizarre but i'm guessing i'm missing something
> 
> I havent tried running them in the power sockets, or checked the rca's for earth issues, but i'm guess the later is eliminated as a possible issue by the fact that the EL12ns/adpaters dont have the issue. I will try this tonight anway to just to double check.
> 
> thanks again



Hmmm tr...if all those pins are shiny clean, looks like you will indeed be in dire need of some decent adapters lol!  So, when the new bases arrive from HK I shall make time to do the honours for you...then if your adapters do prove to be faulty you'll be able to return them with certainty!! 

ps. Probably wouldn't harm just to forewarn mrsx of this situation...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks for your prompt reply @Deyan ...certainly some interesting ones there lol! Here's wishing you all the best in your venture...CJ


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your prompt reply @Deyan ...certainly some interesting ones there lol! Here's wishing you all the best in your venture...CJ



All the best.


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## Johnnysound (Jul 30, 2019)

Tesla EL12 specials and Philips EL 39s



DecentLevi said:


> @andybo I recommend EL12 + EL11.  RFT or Telefunken EL12, or Valvo EL12 for slightly darker and larger soundstage. RFT or Telefunken EL11, unless you get real lucky and find a Valvo. These should be cheaper and easy to find, have good soundstage and detail, and bass. You'd just need 4 of these EL11 adapters mentioned recently. If you can also find an EL12 Spez that would do great to roll a variety of sound, as *this is a slightly brighter, more detailed tube with more realistic presentation *- though this needs this EL12 Spez adapter. If going this route I recommend ordering the adapters first thing because they are on a slow route from Hong Kong. It's generally accepted the EL11, 32, 38, etc. are superior on these amps as drivers in quite a few ways than 6SN7 such as in imaging and dynamics, etc. I'm not sure I recommend the tonality of EL38 would match the HD800's, both being modestly euphonic and even mid-emphasized.



DL really have tested everything on Euforia (lol) !  Leaving the EL39s in place, I started rolling EL family drivers, and first thing I noticed is that (with these particular powers) the drivers  performed noticeably different as (for example) with the EL38s, or with other powers.  New powers, new sound. I am a big fan of the EL38s, that’s for sure, but in this regard I have to draw a clear line between the  Euforia/HP amp and the Euforia/preamp.  As a preamp (with my tube power amp) a quartet of EL38s is something that has to be experienced for its unlimited  openness, transparency and dynamics...and the only other set comparable here is a pair of EL39s driven by EL38s: a somewhat darker, more controlled sound that shares the same great musical virtues.

As an HP amp things are different: the 4 x EL38s *may* be a bit too much, and the EL39s add just the touch of firmness in the bass to make them probably a better choice with “open back” cans.  Along with the 38s, the EL11s also make excellent drivers...being “controlled” themselves they pair really nice with the EL39s for a sweet sound, albeit each brand with its own sonic character (still waiting for the Valvos !!).  

 I heartily agree with DL re: the EL12 specials, a lively, more detailed, realistic sounding tube with a splendid bass.  Don’t know about the TFKs, but these old Teslas are the most _gorgeous looking _tubes that I have  (including rhodium plated pins & top) and as drivers of the 39s they sound impressive.  They are prone to hum, however  (mine have the ferrites installed) and the very closeness to the big EL39s seemed to increase the problem.  I moved the tubes left to right and it was better, then rotated the cap of the right one to move the ferrite around, but it still hummed a bit.  The Euforia was at zero gain and the solution was simple: increase volume and the hum was gone.  A little signal to the tubes just solved it, not affecting the sound...


----------



## teknorob23

Is anyone here going to canjam today. Managed to negotiate a last minute and very rare Saturday pass with my wife, so I’ll be there from about 1 if anyone is around and would like to put a face to some overlong posts rob


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Is anyone here going to canjam today. Managed to negotiate a last minute and very rare Saturday pass with my wife, so I’ll be there from about 1 if anyone is around and would like to put a face to some overlong posts rob



Well done on getting that pass tr...hope you had a wonderful time. I really enjoyed meeting the F-A guys there year before last, but couldn't make it this year for health reasons unfortunately.

ps. Did you find anything nice to partner your Euforia lol? Or were you sensible and leave your credit card at home?!!!


----------



## attmci

Congrats


ZRW0 said:


> Italian name, but Dutch brand.
> From one of your post, you tried the same at a recent CanJam...


Congrats!


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Well done on getting that pass tr...hope you had a wonderful time. I really enjoyed meeting the F-A guys there year before last, but couldn't make it this year for health reasons unfortunately.
> 
> ps. Did you find anything nice to partner your Euforia lol? Or were you sensible and leave your credit card at home?!!!



Sadly the Felilks guys werent this year or last year come to think of it. The show was busy, but i have to say nothing particularly interesting of new on the full size headphone front and i find listening to open backs the shows almost pointless because theres so much noise. I did however try the DCS Bartok DAC Headamp with Stellias and briefly Utopias and wow what an astonishingly good sounding piece of kit. So much space between the instruments, yet it still completely focused and no silly wide sounstage, but loads of depth and dynamism by he bucket. I thought the DAVE was the best DAC i'd ever heard and i obvs didnt get a chance to listen to them side-by-side, but this thing is just gob-smackingly great in every department. £12K though!!!!, but it did get me thinking, i dont really need both children and the youngest already shows some signs of a work ethic, and once i've spent the 12k i dont have to feed, pay for its university education or lend the money for deposit on a house, so mmmmmm.

Other than the bartok i did listen to a lot of IEMs for olds times sake and there were 2 absolute stand out pairs, one of which had the credit twitching. The Vision Ears Elysium, with DD driver, an amazingly coherrant headphone-like sounding combo of dynamic driver for the lows, BA for mids and electrostatic for the highs. These things absolutely rock, spacious, deep with seperation and detail retreival that ive not heard before in an iem, with crisp highs but which worked liquid form with the mids and then this incredible bass, depth extension, kick, but all incredibly natural, to the point i had to double check that i hadnt missread the bit about the dynamic driver. They really were great, but they only come as customs and the price tag is 2900 euros. But they were selling two pairs with 2 week build time at the show price of £2000 and i nearly did it. If it wasnt for the facts i wouldnt be able to easily sell them on and of course i dont do iems anymore.  The other pair that really impressed were the Noble Audio Khan. Another mad hybrid of 6 drivers, DD for low, BAs for mid, BAs for Treble and a piezoelectric for the very highs.  Again a lovely natural tonality and headphone-like presentation but with seperation and detail retreival that you just dont normally get with iems, and they sound great with every type of music which you also just dont get with iems, Expensive again but with show discount they were a tempting snip at £1500  BUT i've not listened to any high end IEM with the euforia and i suspect theyre high sensitivity might be an issue, but i'd love to know if anyone else here has tried them. I wish i'd kept my 18 Driver 64audio A18s or Empire Ears Phantoms, just to hear them with it.

Fortunately for my credit card and for the first time at any hifi show i didnt buy a single item.All in all it wasnt the most memorable hifi show i've been too, but it was fun and of course incredible to be out free on Saturday afternoon. 

Glad to be home with stellia/euforia and a small glass or red tonight


----------



## mordy

I listened to the Venture Electronics Monk on my Euforia, but found that the headphone cable was too short.....LOL


----------



## Johnnysound (Jul 29, 2019)

Mullard  EL32 ST “black glass”  (brown base)  and Philips EL39s

It is well known here  that the EL39s powers offer high quality sound, but IMHO one of their most interesting  characteristics  is that their pairing with various EL or other drivers render new and unexpected sounds & synergies.

The EL32s,  for example, are both really cheap (straight glass) and excellent drivers that have been  labeled as too polite, laid back or lacking bass.  Well, they draw so little current and run so cool that they will probably  last 100 years...but  burn in requires an heroic 150 hours or more.

 I don’t know if some others (apart from @hypnos1 and me) have had the patience,  but my EL32s (in the pic) certainly  have passed the mark...and they really “opened up” after that.   Now the bass is excellent, _at least_ on par with the  EL11s, and their sound is refined, musical...  with the quietest background of any tube that I know of.  The accuracy of the EL39s really highlights  the sound  character of these drivers...

I am arriving at the conclusion that there is no such thing as a “best” driver for the EL39s in absolute terms...that will depend  on your system and (of course) personal preferences.


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Mullard  EL32 ST “black glass”  (brown base)  and Philips EL39s
> 
> It is well known here  that the EL39s powers offer high quality sound, but IMHO one of their most interesting  characteristics  is that their pairing with various EL or other drivers render new and unexpected sounds & synergies.
> 
> ...



Hi J.

Yes indeed...these EL39s as powers do - somehow! - manage to bring out the best in driver tubes...especially others in the EL family (triode-strapped). And yes again, I (and some other folks) found the EL32/CV1052 to at least equal - and sometimes surpass - the 'standard' EL11, giving IMHO by far the best 'bang for buck' lol! 

And as the EL38 isn't _too_ far behind the 39 - especially the earlier versions - then for some systems, this power tube will also make the EL32 shine more brightly as driver...at a fraction of the cost of the best 6SN7s. 

At the end of the day, I personally believe the combo of EL39 especially as power tube, partnered by one's favourite/preferred driver, can outperform _any_ top flight conventional set of tubes...again, without having to spend a fortune and to a degree that depends on the rest of the system of course. In my own particular setup, I'm still being confounded by each of my testing pieces of music that I revisit...and still cannot believe it lol! 

ps. All this with the added bonus of the tubes _and_ amp hardly ticking over, which must therefore be good news for longevity of both! ...($$$$££££)...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

teknorob23 said:


> Sadly the Felilks guys werent this year or last year come to think of it. The show was busy, but i have to say nothing particularly interesting of new on the full size headphone front and i find listening to open backs the shows almost pointless because theres so much noise. I did however try the DCS Bartok DAC Headamp with Stellias and briefly Utopias and wow what an astonishingly good sounding piece of kit. So much space between the instruments, yet it still completely focused and no silly wide sounstage, but loads of depth and dynamism by he bucket. I thought the DAVE was the best DAC i'd ever heard and i obvs didnt get a chance to listen to them side-by-side, but this thing is just gob-smackingly great in every department. £12K though!!!!, but it did get me thinking, i dont really need both children and the youngest already shows some signs of a work ethic, and once i've spent the 12k i dont have to feed, pay for its university education or lend the money for deposit on a house, so mmmmmm.
> 
> Other than the bartok i did listen to a lot of IEMs for olds times sake and there were 2 absolute stand out pairs, one of which had the credit twitching. The Vision Ears Elysium, with DD driver, an amazingly coherrant headphone-like sounding combo of dynamic driver for the lows, BA for mids and electrostatic for the highs. These things absolutely rock, spacious, deep with seperation and detail retreival that ive not heard before in an iem, with crisp highs but which worked liquid form with the mids and then this incredible bass, depth extension, kick, but all incredibly natural, to the point i had to double check that i hadnt missread the bit about the dynamic driver. They really were great, but they only come as customs and the price tag is 2900 euros. But they were selling two pairs with 2 week build time at the show price of £2000 and i nearly did it. If it wasnt for the facts i wouldnt be able to easily sell them on and of course i dont do iems anymore.  The other pair that really impressed were the Noble Audio Khan. Another mad hybrid of 6 drivers, DD for low, BAs for mid, BAs for Treble and a piezoelectric for the very highs.  Again a lovely natural tonality and headphone-like presentation but with seperation and detail retreival that you just dont normally get with iems, and they sound great with every type of music which you also just dont get with iems, Expensive again but with show discount they were a tempting snip at £1500  BUT i've not listened to any high end IEM with the euforia and i suspect theyre high sensitivity might be an issue, but i'd love to know if anyone else here has tried them. I wish i'd kept my 18 Driver 64audio A18s or Empire Ears Phantoms, just to hear them with it.
> 
> ...



Forgot to mention and in the spirit of things that might play nicely with the Euforia, i had very brief listen ZMF's new closed back version of the Verite which was very impressive. They might even give my beloved Stellias a run for their money, but i'd need to have a much longer listen ideally hooked up to the Euforia, before i can say for sure. The tuning is very different to the Stellia, but if stage width is what your after they can easily match the HD820's but with none the downsides. They dont they have quite the detail retrieval of the stellia, but they are probably closer to neutral as the stellia have more mid forward presentation consistent with the focal HP house sound found in the utopia and clears. They are a bit heavier and for my money not as comfortable on the head as the stellia, but better at keeping the outside noise, well, outside. Not released properly until October, but as i understand the first run is already sold out. Still cant wait to have proper demo and for the record the ZMF stand was the busiest by far on the saturday.


----------



## nishan99 (Jul 29, 2019)

Hello folks

I was wondering why this amp got a big price increase from $1400 to +$2200 ?

Also is the Cross-feed feature useful or just a gimmick?


----------



## connieflyer

Thought I would give my El 11 mesh plates a rest and conserve them a bit.  Put the CV 1052 black glass tubes back in.  I used to run a quad of these for over 200 hours, and I am very pleased with these.  Not quite up to the mesh plates, but if I did not have the mesh plated EL 11's would be quite satisfied with these with the EL 39's.  Think I will run with these for a few days and swap in a pair of clear EL32's that have over 150 hours on them and see if there are much of a difference. El 39's still amaze me.


----------



## Mh996

teknorob23 said:


> Sadly the Felilks guys werent this year or last year come to think of it. The show was busy, but i have to say nothing particularly interesting of new on the full size headphone front and i find listening to open backs the shows almost pointless because theres so much noise. I did however try the DCS Bartok DAC Headamp with Stellias and briefly Utopias and wow what an astonishingly good sounding piece of kit. So much space between the instruments, yet it still completely focused and no silly wide sounstage, but loads of depth and dynamism by he bucket. I thought the DAVE was the best DAC i'd ever heard and i obvs didnt get a chance to listen to them side-by-side, but this thing is just gob-smackingly great in every department. £12K though!!!!, but it did get me thinking, i dont really need both children and the youngest already shows some signs of a work ethic, and once i've spent the 12k i dont have to feed, pay for its university education or lend the money for deposit on a house, so mmmmmm.
> 
> Other than the bartok i did listen to a lot of IEMs for olds times sake and there were 2 absolute stand out pairs, one of which had the credit twitching. The Vision Ears Elysium, with DD driver, an amazingly coherrant headphone-like sounding combo of dynamic driver for the lows, BA for mids and electrostatic for the highs. These things absolutely rock, spacious, deep with seperation and detail retreival that ive not heard before in an iem, with crisp highs but which worked liquid form with the mids and then this incredible bass, depth extension, kick, but all incredibly natural, to the point i had to double check that i hadnt missread the bit about the dynamic driver. They really were great, but they only come as customs and the price tag is 2900 euros. But they were selling two pairs with 2 week build time at the show price of £2000 and i nearly did it. If it wasnt for the facts i wouldnt be able to easily sell them on and of course i dont do iems anymore.  The other pair that really impressed were the Noble Audio Khan. Another mad hybrid of 6 drivers, DD for low, BAs for mid, BAs for Treble and a piezoelectric for the very highs.  Again a lovely natural tonality and headphone-like presentation but with seperation and detail retreival that you just dont normally get with iems, and they sound great with every type of music which you also just dont get with iems, Expensive again but with show discount they were a tempting snip at £1500  BUT i've not listened to any high end IEM with the euforia and i suspect theyre high sensitivity might be an issue, but i'd love to know if anyone else here has tried them. I wish i'd kept my 18 Driver 64audio A18s or Empire Ears Phantoms, just to hear them with it.
> 
> ...



Just before I sold my handy old 9 ohm SE846s I tried them with Euforia. There was an instantly audible noise floor ripe with spontaneous popping that persisted even after I unplugged them. This did not fall out of focus when playing music. They would undoubtedly match poorly with most IEMs above 110dB sensitivity.


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## hypnos1 (Jul 30, 2019)

Now then guys...not one to let you - or I! - rest on our laurels for _too_ long, out of interest I thought I'd just see how my lone Mazda EL38 (_*dual*_ getters) sounds partnering an EL39 in the power seat. Especially after I was so impressed with it on first acquaintance a while back, when comparing to other early superb silver-banded Philips (France)/Dario/RT versions.

Well, all I can say is that _*not all EL38s are equal! *_In fact, in many ways this Mazda 38/39 power combo even _surpasses_ 2x EL39s!...how can this possibly be lol?!! 

On first listen, the extra bass extension reminded me of the early Mullard 'balloon' (large bottle) 38 version, and seemed a bit OTT in my system, especially for the Empyreans.
It also made the vocals - especially female - a little less forward/intimate, and so was ready to dismiss in favour of the other EL39.

_*However*_, after leaving to cook for a few more hours and another (important) overnight cooling off period, today things are quite different...that deeper bass hardened and gained the EL39's wonderful control. Just as importantly as far as I'm concerned, voice positioning returned more to my particular taste. In addition, treble from this Mazda has even more of the C3g 'sparkle', but with none of the latter's occasional 'over-exuberance'. Therefore, the already dynamic nature of the 38s and 39s goes up yet another notch, and fair took me by surprise. Mind you, I'm quite sure that _two_ Mazda EL38s would indeed be far too much for my own gear and tastes! And I firmly believe that its _combination _with an EL39 is a prime case of 'the whole being greater than the sum of the parts', as I found a long time ago when pairing an ECC31 driver with an FDD20. But as the EL tubes are much more closely related, the combination is even _more_ perfect (and with the most deathly silent background I've ever heard from power tubes).

And so all in all folks, I must admit to once again being somewhat confounded/confused by this EL38/39 saga...and as so often happens with our glass-tubed wonders, we cannot take too much for granted lol!  I can only suggest you keep a very sharp eye out for such an EL38 - preferably labelled MAZDA, although it would appear that any label on an identical-looking tube (with black internal coating, and *no* silver band at the base) probably came from the same factory in France (not to be confused with the larger bottle Mullard)...a photo of my Mazda in the righthand power slot should give a good idea :




ps. My experience with this tube confirms once more the need to take one's time in judging a tube's qualities. As this is a used tube, I could so easily have assumed that the initial overall presentation was going to be 'it', and not continued with it. Obviously, it needed that time to adjust to a different amp's topology - and vice versa! - before performing to anywhere near its best. And so, as I - and others more experienced than myself - have said many times before, *patience* is all-important when trying to judge/assess a particular tube...or any other piece of hi-fi equipment....CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Congrats CJ, looks like you have uncovered another gem! I think your next task is to uncover a tube that works just like these harmonize, but that are cheap and readily available! That Mazda, looks a lot like the Mullard fat bottle El 38's, wonder what the difference is.  If the circuit is a little different or is strickly constuction.   Well, what ever the difference, hope someone else can uncover one and give their voice up to these tubes.   You should invite Micheal Lukasz by to listen to your system next time he is in country, to see what you have discovered.  I think he may be amazed at what you have accomplished in your journey.  Thanks for all the guidance you have given to the thread. We all appreciate what you have done.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Congrats CJ, looks like you have uncovered another gem! I think your next task is to uncover a tube that works just like these harmonize, but that are cheap and readily available! That Mazda, looks a lot like the Mullard fat bottle El 38's, wonder what the difference is.  If the circuit is a little different or is strickly constuction.   Well, what ever the difference, hope someone else can uncover one and give their voice up to these tubes.   You should invite Micheal Lukasz by to listen to your system next time he is in country, to see what you have discovered.  I think he may be amazed at what you have accomplished in your journey.  Thanks for all the guidance you have given to the thread. We all appreciate what you have done.



Hi cf...and thanks once again for your kind words.

Well, mon ami, what can I say?...except that it really does look like there probably never is such a thing as 'end game' for us enthusiasts (I blame Mother Nature for making such curiosity essential for the advancement of a species lol! ...and much more complimentary than pure _madness!! ).
_
Anyway, further to my recent early impressions of the Mazda (France) EL38/EL39 combo, I'm glad to say it wasn't mere seduction...there really is a torrid love affair going on between these 2 tubes as powers. It's almost as though they keep goading each other to new heights...just as I think the Mazda in the right channel is getting the upper hand, the 39 in the left comes out with something to match it. Have never encountered such a thing in this hobby of ours! ... (as you hinted, they constantly maintain perfect _harmony).
_
I'm usually very suspicious of a tube that at first listen seems to bring something extra to the table than the previous 'star', and the Mazda's unrivalled bass, coupled with a scintillating treble began to instill doubts about recordings biased a tad too much towards these extremes. Happily, my main go-to albums and tracks for testing this - including Genesis's 'Duke', Alison Moyet's 'All Cried Out' and Lindsey Stirling's 'Stars Align' all put my mind at rest...no teeth on edge with treble, and bass lines always tight, solid and well controlled. Happily also, all aspects regarding soundstage remain a match for the wonderful 2x EL39 setup....am still somewhat bemused by it all! 

Driven by the mesh plate Valvo EL11/EL3N*G* combo, from both my own experience and general consensus on tube characteristics, I think I can safely say the Mazda 38/EL39 combo has few equals, this side of bankruptcy lol.... And so I'll be looking into hopefully helping a few others to either agree or disagree...but as for finding tubes that can match these on the cheap..._forget it!!_ I'm afraid I don't intend spending the entire rest of my life in the forlorn hope of _trying _to find such gems lol!...(anyone else care to adopt the mantle?...GOOD LUCK!!)....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. In most respects, the Mazda EL38 looks absolutely identical to the EL39, apart from a neater bulge up top; smaller base and no silver skirt for the Mazda...both having black plates; dual getters; ceramic post insulators and gold signal grid wire (the larger 'fat' bottle Mullard EL38 is minus the insulators and gold wire).  Why there should be such differences in sound, goodness knows! But I have to admit that the French 38s and 39s are a good bit ahead of the British tubes...especially the still excellent later clear glass Mullard-made EL38 (in our amps, at least...).


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## connieflyer

That's really interesting to hear CJ, I suppose the possibility of finding another one is going to be really difficult. But I'll keep on the lookout hopefully find one someday, but even if I don't the ones that I am using make me a happy camper! Never stop looking you never know what you're going to find. Just imagine if we would have just accepted this amplifier just the way it came from the factory.


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## DecentLevi

Congratulations on the rare EL38/39 powers combo you were able to find. Even with such TOTL tubes, the performance is in no small part thanks to your up/downstream gear such as DAC, wiring, headphone, and of course the amp itself. Moreover the performance of a tube depends heavily on the headphone pairing. Not only should the sound signatures compliment each other, but also the tube should supply a proper current for the said headphone. That is to say, the EL39 + EL11 pairings as of late are a fantastic choice for many headphones also including Empyreans, T1, HD-6xx series, etc. that drive them well and give a fantastic sound; both the tubes and headphones being generally linear. OTOH other headphones such as the closed HD-380 demand a brighter even even more dynamic tube compliment to counter their somewhat dark/slow signature. So there is no one solution for all, but it rather depends on your up/downstream gear and preferences. And we're fortunate to have such a versatile amp that can accommodate such diverse needs.


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## Johnnysound (Aug 3, 2019)

..


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## hypnos1 (Aug 3, 2019)

Well, @connieflyer...all I can say is keep looking indeed for the Mazda EL38 as shown below - this baby is, for some reason - quite a different beast to all the other 38s I've tried...not to mention the star EL39 lol!

And in reply especially to @DecentLevi 's points just now, perhaps I should summarise more clearly for folks my recent findings re. the EL38 family, and compared to the EL39.

I realise I'm very fortunate to have other system elements that help my Euforia and tubes perform above average, but what I have been describing mostly are *differences *between the various tubes, more so than their _level_ of performance. It follows therefore that such differences _should_ apply to other systems also, even if perhaps not to quite the same _degree_. As for just how they perform with different headphones, again I think it safe to assume most others would experience very similar results, based upon past concensus from different users' systems when using the clear glass Mullard-made EL38. And for *serious *listening, I'm quite sure most folks who have spent Euforia-type money will want headphones _way_ above the likes of the HD380 for example...makes no sense otherwise IMHO! 

And so..._in Euforia_, and compared to the British made Mullard clear glass EL38/CV450, I personally have found :

1. The Philips (France) Dario/RT silver banded EL38s have an overall better balance, separation/placement/soundstage... with slightly less _apparent_ bass, but one that has better definition, control and solidity. The general feeling is one of more coherence and command of the sound.

2. As of the moment, the *MAZDA* EL38 possesses all of the above, but with appreciable enhancement in *all* aspects of bass...impressively so, in fact. Treble is also enhanced. Its overall delivery is also much more dynamic, which would help systems/headphones that need this especially.

3. The EL39 simply takes all the French qualities to levels that scream 'class'...with an added refinement, clarity and overall mastery that almost defy description. You just _know_ this tube is something very special indeed.

4. So, given such mastery, how on Earth can the EL39 - as a _pair_ - be surpassed lol? For *me*, its combination with the Mazda 38 brings the level of bass that in the past I would have frowned upon...but I now realise this was because no other previous tube(s) delivered it so masterfully lol! The Mazda's extra treble 'sparkle' is also a nice counterfoil to such a bass...and all with no detrimental effect upon the seductive mids. These two tubes together manage to deliver both dynamism *and *refinement when called for...more so than I have ever encountered before (and certainly from 'conventional' tubes).

ps. The clear glass Mullard EL38 in combination with the EL39 brought nowhere near the same magic I'm afraid....in bass quality especially...
pps. This is all rather unfair to the Mullards alas...these are nonetheless wonderful tubes! ...but in this situation, they're simply outclassed by the French!! 

Finally, a couple of photos of the marvels in question :


4x Philips/Dario/RT EL38s


Left : Mazda EL38 (dual getters)...Right : Philips/Dario EL38 (also dual getters, looks identical to the EL39 but with smaller base...sound akin to the EL39).


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## connieflyer (Aug 5, 2019)

Very nice summation CJ. And I do agree with what you said about the headphones for five years ago I had the HD380s, and they were okay for a closed-back phone. Nowhere  close to high-end. I then moved on to the HD 650 which was a much better phone. I also tried the Sennheiser 700 which was better still but just a little bit on the Wild Side. Did not have the consistency that I was looking for when I settled on the Sennheiser 800, things finally started going right. The money that I spent on the amplifier, dac, power conditioning, tube rolling finally came full circle. It gave me what I was looking for with all the neutrality as well as the definition that I wanted I also had a beyer T1. Which was also a good phone. When I got the chance to use my equipment with the el 39 has powers the whole structure of the Sennheiser 800 changed. The base was much more dominant than it has ever been before , it was there in spades. Many reviewers always said the 800 was light in the base Department. Well I can tell you from listening on two separate Sennheiser 800 phones that I own base is very strong very clear and definitely not lacking anywhere. But that's the thing with audio equipment especially you have to have the chain equal the sum you have a strong amplifier and weak headphones you're not going to get the full value of that amplifier. It's like building a race car you don't just build the top end with a nice camshaft and a big carburetor okay fuel injection now and leave the bottom end of the engine stock it has to be top to bottom to get the most out of it. It's that simple


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## DecentLevi (Aug 3, 2019)

Hi guys I didn't mean to cause a misunderstanding. Rather than saying the EL38/39 powers are good for some people but I prefer others for my headphones, I'm saying it's good to have both. In my extensive testing, the HD-380 prefer something akin to Bendix 6080 (slotted graphite plates) powers with 6N23P as drivers for a sound that delivers the right amount of slam, lushness, detail and current for these specific headphones. It gives a super special presentation for electronic music, something that must be directly heard to experience. For my HD-600 along with good resolving neutral open-backs I definitely prefer the EL39 + EL11 tubes as well. If you have multiple headphones it's great to have a variety of tubes to find the best pairing.


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys I didn't mean to cause a misunderstanding. Rather than saying the EL38/39 powers are good for some people but I prefer others for my headphones, I'm saying it's good to have both. In my extensive testing, the HD-380 prefer something akin to Bendix 6080 (slotted graphite plates) powers with 6N23P as drivers for a sound that delivers the right amount of slam, lushness, detail and current for these specific headphones. It gives a super special presentation for electronic music, something that must be directly heard to experience. For my HD-600 along with good resolving neutral open-backs I definitely prefer the EL39 + EL11 tubes as well. If you have multiple headphones it's great to have a variety of tubes to find the best pairing.



Sorry DL, but I'm having a very hard time trying to understand why anyone who pays a not insignificant amount for such an amp as Euforia would even _think_ of wanting to do serious listening with such as the HD 380..._does not compute lol!!_ These are my last words on this...


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## DecentLevi (Aug 4, 2019)

What you have found is the best pairing for neutral reference headphones, but odd closed headphones with a dark signature require different signature / current to synergize better; The 6080 + 9-pin octals gel well with certain headphones that the EL don't play well with, whereas the EL tubes are more suited for neutral flagships such as that most of us have been using. A good closed headphone is preferrable to me with lossy electronic music for more of a 'fun', less critical experience.
 There is no one size fits all, and certain tubes work better for certain headphones. Debating this point would be rather futile. Great this is your last words on this, let's agree to disagree until you can hear what I'm talking about directly. I'm with you on your top EL combos - no disagreement there, and occasionally roll different tubes for other cans just like anybody who does tube rolling.


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## connieflyer (Aug 4, 2019)

DL, what you say about different tubes and phones for different situations has some validity, if all you're looking for is something that is fun to listen to instead of rolling tubes to try to find that exact fun sound that you're looking for, I would suggest that you use a graphic equalizer to change the sound to what is sounding to be more fun to you. You do not need to roll different tubes to change the sound of the amplifier. What I take offense to is your language at the end were you trying to make it seem like you have all the answers and you're just waiting for CJ to come around to your way of thinking. To me those words are not welcome. We can all disagree about something but it doesn't have to get to the point to where one person thanks he knows everything , much more than those that have been around in this Hobby for many more years, and has much more technical information available to him through direct experimentation, not to mention actually designing the amplifier itself. The Elise, and also asking and receiving the changes made so well that they actually made a second version called Euphoria from the original. I myself have been in electronics since the early 60s, that was before solid state took hold, for those that don't know.  That was tube based Electronics before the Silicon chip was discovered and brought to Market. What height the tube design had culminated about this time perhaps a little before. What I have also found is CJ's explanations on the value of certain tubes coincides with what I have learned over the last 60 years. So I don't think he has to come around to your way of thinking. So for now let's just agree to disagree. I'm done with this nonsense


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## Wildcatsare1

Many thanks too @ZRW0, Erwin the Tube arrived today, damn! Just put in the EL12Spez and EL32’s, my God the soundstage on the Vérité is absolutely huge! More to come, thank you so much, it’s fantastic to go from 0 to 60 overnight with the Euforia!


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## DecentLevi (Aug 5, 2019)

@Wildcatsare1 congrats, and it looks like your Euforia must be already burned in. Personally I'd say if you already have the EL12 Spez no reason to bother with the EL38 & adapters, better to keep checking in case a few EL39 turn up, then see about any adapters. I've found the difference between EL38/39 to be so great they're almost incomparable - yet the Spez still definitely rises towards the top as well. I see you must be pairing it with the Hugo 2 which helps a fair amount too, right? And it looks like you have a power conditioning solution of some sort which also helps improve the sound.


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## Wildcatsare1

@DecentLevi, yes, I’m using the Hugo 2, and power conditioning, as well as ferrite rings on the grounding wires on the adapters. Would you recommend going with a good pair of 6SN7’s (real Bad Boys, Psvane or Ken-Rad)?


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## WithGumption

So I just scored some EL39’s on the way to me from Spain. I had a question on adapters...where am I able to source them?


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## DecentLevi

The only EL39 adapters so far are from the thread starter Hypnos1, but he has to order special materials and may not have time. You can also try contacting user @Deyan to see if he can make some. Interesting, how many did you find and in what condition?

@Wildcatsare1 hold on I'll get back about recommended drivers with EL12 Spez after I double check, but hold off on 6SN7.


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## Deyan

Hello. I can make them.


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## DecentLevi

Hey @Wildcatsare1 here's my recommended drivers that pair best with EL12 Spez based on notes from extensive testing:
* Valvo EL11 best sound but rare tube
* Valvo EL12 easier to find, also sounds amazing but is more euphonic
* Telefunken or RFT EL12 (curved) Superb and modestly v-shaped
_  (all of the above need EL12 to 6SN7 adapter. EL12's are powers but can work as drivers too only with low-draw powers such as the EL class)_
* EL32 that you have. Great resolving pairing, modestly bright
* RCA 6SN7 GT newer (still old) smoked glass version (grey non-transparent color). Amazing realism & dynamics

With the above you will get variations of tube euphony, detail, transient response and realism, but all are _modestly _bright due to the character of the EL12 Spez


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## ZRW0 (Aug 6, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Many thanks too @ZRW0, Erwin the Tube arrived today, damn! Just put in the EL12Spez and EL32’s, my God the soundstage on the Vérité is absolutely huge! More to come, thank you so much, it’s fantastic to go from 0 to 60 overnight with the Euforia!



Hi @Wildcatsare1 ,

Glad the tubes crossed the ocean with no hurt. Also glad you enjoy the tubes I recommended to you, based on our discussion.


Hello Euforia enthusiasts,

Although I don't have EL tubes any more (but a pair of TFK EL11 straight black coated, people don't seem to enjoy on this forum, whereas they sound good to me...), still all of the great 6SN7 and 6AS7G family tubes remain resting in my drawers...

Please, for them, don't let those tubes unused.
They are so great ! Some of them are rare and collectibles.
My prices are very fair, I can ship oversees. For people interested, please PM me.

Drivers
- Ken-Rad VT-231 black glass - RARE - Matched pair - One of the best, if not the best, driver tube of the 6SN7 kind !
- Ken-Rad VT-99 (+adapters) - RARE - Matched pair - My all time favorite on the Euforia ! Not as "bassy" as the Ken-Rad VT-231, but as delicate and detailed and almost as slamming when needed.
- RCA/CBS 5692 - RARE - Matched pair - Soft, mild, warm, and quite long lifetime
- RCA 7N7 (+adapters) - Matched pair - Cheap, yet a very good surprise, almost as articulated and balanced as Sylvania's 6SN7GTB for a fraction of the price.
- RCA VT-231 grey glass - RARE - I didn't really have time to try/listen-to those tubes. They're supposed to be NOS, yet I suspect one of the two tubes to be faulty/sleepy as it was not responding well when I first (and the only time) I tried them. Will either make the pair for a very reasonable price, or offer it to someone taking me other tubes.
- Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top - Matched pair - well you all know this one. It is just great !

Powers
- Tung-Sol 5998 chrome top - RARE - Matched pair - A great and quite capable tube. One of the best power tube of the 6AS7G type.
- Tung-Sol 7236 - Matched pair - A cheap, slamming tube, for the ones who likes the transistor like sound response.
- Western Electric 421A - VERY RARE - An expensive, collectible tube. The BEST tube ever of the 6AS7G family. Provides even more details, openness and dynamics than the 5998. One of the two tubes has started coughing a bit when warm. Due to this, there will be an important discount on this pair. 
- GEC 2523 - VERY RARE - Yet another unicorn, with outstanding sound capabilities. I think @hypnos1 even told it was one of the best crafted tube he ever saw. Different from WE-421A and TS-5998 sound signatures : richer mids and highs and less bass. Those ones are still near NOS, as I've barely used them.

Regards,

Erwan.


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## hypnos1 (Aug 6, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Many thanks too @ZRW0, Erwin the Tube arrived today, damn! Just put in the EL12Spez and EL32’s, my God the soundstage on the Vérité is absolutely huge! More to come, thank you so much, it’s fantastic to go from 0 to 60 overnight with the Euforia!



Hi W...glad to hear you're impressed with Euforia...good choice! And well done on diving straight into the EL family of tubes.

Ever since I adapted the EL3N; EL11/12/Spezial; EL32; EL38 and 39 (starting with Elise) I've continued to be amazed at how Feliks-Audio have managed to make amps that although configured for 6SN7 drivers and 6AS7G powers can not only handle these pentodes - adapted as triodes - but have them performing so brilliantly!

And as for the EL38 power tube, much will depend on just how curious/adventurous you are...not to mention tube budget lol!  Most folks - with a wide variety of systems, including myself, have found this tube to surpass even the mighty EL12 Spezial...especially the French Philips/Dario/RT 38 versions with the silver 'skirt'. Mazda (France) have 2 types - the silver banded as before, and also one that has quite a few differences in construction : no silver band; more slender (prettier!) bottle; dual getters and marginally different heater design. I personally have found this tube to equal the EL39, but with even better bass and slightly more treble. In some systems the 38s can also sound very good indeed as drivers to the same powers...

As for the EL39 itself, I'm afraid it would appear that a limited production line will make them extremely hard to find. And when they do appear, good examples are now usually very expensive...but IMHO surpass, and are still far cheaper than, top flight 6AS7G/6080/5998s...an amazing tube!

ps. Interesting to hear that Euforia + EL tubes are making your Verite sing like a canary lol. My own setup - also with Hugo2 (which regardless of what Bob Watts says, is helped no end by Euforia IMO), is doing wonders for my Empyreans. I do love Zak's wood finishes, but I always found them a tad too heavy for me, especially for longer listening sessions (being rather thin on top doesn't help!!).

pps. If you do ever think of going for the EL38s, adapters are available from : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...957233?hash=item2f2697fab1:g:jMQAAOSwi3xb9jks


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## hypnos1

WithGumption said:


> So I just scored some EL39’s on the way to me from Spain. I had a question on adapters...where am I able to source them?



Hi WG...WELL DONE on finding those EL39s. These are rare beasts indeed, so lucky you.

As so few are indeed likely to be found, I almost feel obliged to help fellow members here be able to get the best out of such wonderful tubes, and given I have just a few components left after my recent mammoth run of adapters, I'd be happy to make a pair for you also. I shall use gold plated sockets and bases, and 24AWG pure silver/26AWG OCC (single crystal) silver/OCC copper wires. And they look like : 


 

With this pair I painted the Teflon tubing and top caps black, but are otherwise opaque/white...you could always paint them black yourself, if you wanted.
As a hobbyist I don't charge for labour, so can offer them for £14 each. PM me if interested...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hey @WithGumption ...forgot to ask whether your incoming EL39s are as shown below...I do hope so. These are the *silver banded* 'Pro gold' versions, as opposed to the earlier *red banded* one which is, alas, basically the 4654, and not nearly as good according to the French aficionados :

 

As can be seen, the internal coating may be either quite 'full' or merely 'opaque'...they both sound exactly the same.

For interest's sake, here's a comparison of an EL39 to the perplexing (still!) MAZDA EL38 (the version with *no* silver painted skirt and different bottle) :

 
RT EL39 to the left, Mazda EL38 to the right


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## Wildcatsare1

@hypnos1, funny you should mention those particular adapters, I actually have a pair, just not a set of EL 38 to go with them! I just pu some 6H8C Tubes in the with the EL12 Spez, it’s a wonderful combination, a bit more clarity than the EL 32, but it preserves the huge soundstage. It also doesn’t hurt that the 6H8 C is a pretty common and inexpensive tube!


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## hypnos1

Wildcatsare1 said:


> @hypnos1, funny you should mention those particular adapters, I actually have a pair, just not a set of EL 38 to go with them! I just pu some 6H8C Tubes in the with the EL12 Spez, it’s a wonderful combination, a bit more clarity than the EL 32, but it preserves the huge soundstage. It also doesn’t hurt that the 6H8 C is a pretty common and inexpensive tube!



That's a rather unusual finding, W...methinks you're in for a very interesting journey with Euforia and tube rolling lol! 

But please remember, both amp and tubes often need many hours' play time before giving of their best...and which includes when changing from one tube family to another especially. The same goes for gaining a full appreciation of a particular tube's qualities/characteristics...this can indeed be quite a lengthy process! ...HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


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## WithGumption

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @WithGumption ...forgot to ask whether your incoming EL39s are as shown below...I do hope so. These are the *silver banded* 'Pro gold' versions, as opposed to the earlier *red banded* one which is, alas, basically the 4654, and not nearly as good according to the French aficionados :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Hypnos,

Here are the 39’s I took a chance on. Described as NOS—but, no measurements. Also, not sure if they are matched. Honestly, it was a total gamble and seller didn’t exactly respond to my questions. There may be a language barrier. I’ll PM you on the adapters!


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## hypnos1

Aha @WithGumption ...the 4x RTs on fleabay...WELL DONE! Glad they went to someone here . And they do indeed look in great, unused condition...so they will need a fair number of hours' burn-in before really showing their full prowess lol. And even though those pins look good, I still advise giving them a good rub with _fine_ emery paper, just to make sure! The same with the top caps ...but not too hard, you don't want to possibly loosen it. To be absolutely safe, you might want to use 'superglue' around where the metal top cap joins the glass...and the same with the base/glass. Both these areas can sometimes come loose in very old tubes.

And congratulate yourself on having acquired four tubes for the price of just one lesser 'conventional' tube...lucky you!  Will get cracking on those adapters ASAP so you can make sure they work OK...ebay gives very good protection!


----------



## WithGumption

hypnos1 said:


> Aha @WithGumption ...the 4x RTs on fleabay...WELL DONE! Glad they went to someone here . And they do indeed look in great, unused condition...so they will need a fair number of hours' burn-in before really showing their full prowess lol. And even though those pins look good, I still advise giving them a good rub with _fine_ emery paper, just to make sure! The same with the top caps ...but not too hard, you don't want to possibly loosen it. To be absolutely safe, you might want to use 'superglue' around where the metal top cap joins the glass...and the same with the base/glass. Both these areas can sometimes come loose in very old tubes.
> 
> And congratulate yourself on having acquired four tubes for the price of just one lesser 'conventional' tube...lucky you!  Will get cracking on those adapters ASAP so you can make sure they work OK...ebay gives very good protection!



thanks Fleabay!


----------



## DecentLevi

@WithGumption WELL DONE on the EL39 acquisition! You've struck not only gold, but silver filled! I don't think it's possible for any compatible tube class to ever outclass these. Just keep your fingers crossed they're working. And these are last of a kind so pass them on to another deserving person when you finish with them at some point.


----------



## teknorob23

feeling like the biggest culprit for taking advantage of @hypnos1 generosity in helping me and others get the most out of our Euforia and come to think of it out my hifi generally (although not sure how i feel about my on-going cable addiction), ive gone and done a bit of fending for myself. I took up @Deyan on his kind offer of making me a pair or E11-6ns7 adapters and i have to say the experience has been a very good one. For £41 including postage i had pair of these made in Bulgaria and installed in my Euforia within about week of ordering. They're tank-like in build and work very well. Sadly they've not cured the humming in my Mini-watts or rogue EL11 (not one of the adapted ones from @hynos1 which work flawlessly). On that front i've sand papered the contacts, so they're nice and shiny and checked the earthing of the amp which is fine (thanks @DecentLevi ), so is just bad luck?

Anyway here are some pics of @Deyan 's great works


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @teknorob23 . Nice to see you've now got some EL11 adapters. All you need now are some 11s that work OK lol!...(may well be able to help out there soon, if needs be...).

The nice gold plated (pins) ceramic bases that I was waiting for arrived...but they were a different size to advertised and don't fit! Not very happy!...So now the long wait once more......

ps. It does indeed look like you have a couple of rogue 11s there, tr...with my tubes working fine, it was never really an earthing issue methinks....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> so is just bad luck?


tk, seem like it might be bad luck, I have 4 pair of EL11 and all of them are dead quiet, the tubes I have trouble with are EL3N, of which I have 3 pairs and all hum!.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys...just a quick addendum on the subject of the 'special' Mazda EL38 I've been raving about recently.

Just as the Mazda brand has 2 versions of the EL38 - one with the silver painted band, and the very different (and far better) one *without* - so the latter can also have a different brand name...viz. so far, I've found the exact same tube with 'MiniWatt/Dario' label. It would appear that this particular EL38 was made either on a totally different production line to all other 38s or, more likely, at a different factory...but with different labels attached. Whatever, both not only _look_ identical, but they also _sound_ identical...better by far than _any_ other EL38, bar none!

So, folks, the key here is to look out for tubes that have the following *appearance*, regardless of label...so long as they're from the Philips *FRANCE* stable - 'MiniWatt/Dario'; MAZDA; RT :


 

Dario to the left, Mazda to the right....GOOD HUNTING!...CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 8, 2019)

ed..


----------



## DecentLevi

The Fivre 6N7G has been a mainstay of action on other threads, at $100 /pop, though I've noticed a HUGE array of much cheaper 6N7G tubes on eBay now. You'd just need a 6N7 / VT-96 adapter to use these as drivers. For me anyway I've retired from new tubes on the Euforia.


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> The Fivre 6N7G has been a mainstay of action on other threads, at $100 /pop, though I've noticed a HUGE array of much cheaper 6N7G tubes on eBay now. You'd just need a 6N7 / VT-96 adapter to use these as drivers. For me anyway I've retired from new tubes on the Euforia.



Any particular advantage of the 6N7G over 6SN7 in your experience in Euforia or Elise?


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 10, 2019)

With the black metal 6N7s I heard distinct advantages over 6SN7s - more solid dynamics and controlled bass - that is on the rare occasion it had good synergy with chosen powers and headphones. Those metal ones are picky on synergy and have distortion with many pairings. Though the 6N7Gs are a very different animal, one I have personally yet to try. Quite different being a curved ST shape rather than straight metal tube. I have heard the Visseaux 6N7 G and GT are some of the best on other threads as well like the 2359 Glenn thread. At dirt cheap prices it wouldn't hurt to try a few pairs of random types.

For me I'm more than happy with my tube compliments as far as the Euforia goes, with various multi-combos of EL39, EL32, 6BL7, EL11, GEC 6080 and 6N23P but I do say other good flavors could likely be had with the above as well.


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 10, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey @WithGumption ...forgot to ask whether your incoming EL39s are as shown below...I do hope so. These are the *silver banded* 'Pro gold' versions, as opposed to the earlier *red banded* one which is, alas, basically the 4654, and not nearly as good according to the French aficionados :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi @hypnos1...I hope that _some day _one of those Mazdas EL38s (or RT, Darios) appear somewhere, but so far I have not seen a _single_ one for sale...and I mean not only in fleabay, but searching multiple sites (including french ones)..nothing.  Congrats for those collector pieces, they  are *extremely* rare, in fact more so than the EL39s !!   Given their unobtainable status, I am very happy with the supposedly “second best”...the early  Mullards “dark glass” EL38s, which in fact are _very_ close to the EL39s as powers...and perhaps a bit more open and lively.

And again, I am trying to draw a line between the performance of those tubes in Euforia/HP amp as opposed to Euforia/preamp, but this is not easy: having a good batch of tubes (and being dual purpose pentode/triodes) the sound of 4xEL39s or 4xEL38s in my power amp was so *vastly* superior to anything that I have heard before,  that you just *have* to set up Euforia to exploit that...and _this_ particular setup in Euforia might be different from the one for purely HP amp duties.

The awesome 4xEL39s powers took time to “loosen up” (being dark and reserved at first) but after that the quartet revealed themselves as nothing short of “world class” with transparency, detail and tight bass. Extremely powerful (over KT150 levels) the amp pumped easily 90 w/channel or more. 4xEL38s (clear glass) are at a similar level, with a slightly “looser” bass but enormous detail and air.  That kind of powers needed absolute resolution and transparency from the preamp, and that was 4xEL38s, or 2xEL38 plus 2xEL39s on Euforia.  For refinement, 2xEL11 as drivers also worked really nice...

As driver triodes in Euforia, the EL38s “clear glass” are absolutely top flight...for my tastes, and combined with the 39s or 38s “dark glass” offer the very best sound of Euforia driving similar tubes in the power amp...great  !


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 10, 2019)

Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard  “dark glass” ones.
It reads:  1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)

So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built  before 1955.  But the real mystery is the second group:  factory/year of manufacture.   First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the  tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!

From the acid etched code, this one fits  Mullard standards...but which factory/year ?  May have been  made in Holland or France ?  this is a tough one...for the true experts !


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard  “dark glass” ones.
> It reads:  1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)
> 
> So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built  before 1955.  But the real mystery is the second group:  factory/year of manufacture.   First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the  tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!
> ...


Hi Johnnysound,
I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
Here is a representative picture:


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 11, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
> Here is a representative picture:



Fantastic info,  Mordy !!

Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years)  it looks like you nailed it !!  I suspected that the tube may have been  made  by an unknown european  factory, and you confirmed it.    There are  clear  differences in construction compared to the later  British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around.   In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards.  This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 11, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @hypnos1...I hope that _some day _one of those Mazdas EL38s (or RT, Darios) appear somewhere, but so far I have not seen a _single_ one for sale...and I mean not only in fleabay, but searching multiple sites (including french ones)..nothing.  Congrats for those collector pieces, they  are *extremely* rare, in fact more so than the EL39s !!   Given their unobtainable status, I am very happy with the supposedly “second best”...the early  Mullards “dark glass” EL38s, which in fact are _very_ close to the EL39s as powers...and perhaps a bit more open and lively.
> 
> And again, I am trying to draw a line between the performance of those tubes in Euforia/HP amp as opposed to Euforia/preamp, but this is not easy: having a good batch of tubes (and being dual purpose pentode/triodes) the sound of 4xEL39s or 4xEL38s in my power amp was so *vastly* superior to anything that I have heard before,  that you just *have* to set up Euforia to exploit that...and _this_ particular setup in Euforia might be different from the one for purely HP amp duties.
> 
> ...





Johnnysound said:


> Fantastic info,  Mordy !!
> 
> Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years)  it looks like you nailed it !!  I suspected that the tube may have been  made  by an unknown european  factory, and you confirmed it.    There are  clear  differences in construction compared to the later  British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around.  No doubt the Austrian factory followed the highest standards.  In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards.  This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)
> 
> For the tube community, the discovery of the “M” factory is a great piece of information...



Hi J.

Re. the 'special' Mazda/Dario EL38s - the ones *without* the silver painted band - these do indeed look even harder to find than the EL39 (which is saying something lol! ).

*However*...after even more hours' testing with different pieces of music (folk/soft rock/electronic/acoustic/classical/male & female vocal/choir), all I can say is *keep looking!* I can now confirm beyond any doubt that this particular EL38 is *way* better (in every respect) than *all* others, including the superlative early large bottle, dark glass Mullard you mentioned. And the combination of one with an EL39 as powers is also a good bit better than two 39s in most respects...ie. = 2x EL39s+++. The difference actually took me quite by surprise while testing WG's 39 adapters...quick A/B testing (of similar tubes) is the only way to really judge such differences IMHO, auditory memory being notoriously unreliable lol!
Anyway, my last vestige of questioning - how can this possibly be? - was buried when listening to Holst's 'Planets' Suite (24bit 96kHz remaster), and Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition'/Night on Bald Mountain', also in hi-res. To say shivers were going up and down my spine is an understatement lol! I have *never* heard such bass mastery before. And this includes all bass/lower mids instruments in the orchestra, from kettle drums to tuba and trombones. In_ this_ respect, even the Chord Dave/Utopia combo at a previous CanJam London didn't impress me more. Add on all the other virtues of the EL39, and perhaps one can understand my surprise! I'm fully convinced that other systems would at least have a _similar _experience...

And yes, in the absence of finding an early large bottle Mullard EL38, also keep a close eye out for the early Philips (France) silver-banded versions...and if really lucky to find one with *dual* getters, the sound approaches the EL39 even closer. But the jewel in the crown must remain the 'special' MAZDA/Dario 38 (or possibly other French Philips brand also - *of the same construction*)....it truly is in a class of its own...*at any price*.


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 11, 2019)

Hey guys how about some 6B8 / 6R7 love on the Euforia with this most charming tube, complete with a 'panic button' on top 
The real babe magnet... provided you get the right adapter... and don't plan on having any ladies over



 

 

Who knows, they may be a 'beauty and the beast' tube. Or maybe someone can try a really beautiful 6N7G


----------



## mordy

I have a number of 6N7G tubes; RCA, Sylvania, Arcturus, Ken-Rad, National Union, Mazda (Visseaux), Mullard (ECC31) and Philips FDD20.
In my experience the NU sounds the best of the US tubes; of the European the Visseaux and Mullard.
In the beginning of the Elise saga h1 liked the combination of ECC31 and FDD20, but that sound has been surpassed by later discoveries.
As always, synergy with the power tubes is important.


----------



## Oskari

Johnnysound said:


> Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard  “dark glass” ones.
> It reads:  1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)
> 
> So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built  before 1955.  But the real mystery is the second group:  factory/year of manufacture.   First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the  tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!
> ...





mordy said:


> Hi Johnnysound,
> I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
> Here is a representative picture:





Johnnysound said:


> Fantastic info,  Mordy !!
> 
> Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years)  it looks like you nailed it !!  I suspected that the tube may have been  made  by an unknown european  factory, and you confirmed it.    There are  clear  differences in construction compared to the later  British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around.   In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards.  This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)



On the WIRAG, it is the letter A that makes them WIRAG. The MS is the type code (EL3N) here.

The Mullard has an older type of Mullard code. I cannot explain the MS-. This is still a Mullard _only_ code.


----------



## Johnnysound

Oskari said:


> On the WIRAG, it is the letter A that makes them WIRAG. The MS is the type code (EL3N) here.
> 
> The Mullard has an older type of Mullard code. I cannot explain the MS-. This is still a Mullard _only_ code.



Yes, you are right Oskari, I have not checked the pic.  "MS" as a type code is a strange coincidence however, so the mystery around the  Mullard factory continues...


----------



## connieflyer

Received my Mazda El38 and Miniwatt El38 today.  Have about four hours on them now, and they are sounding excellent. Used one El38 along with an El39 powers and a pair of Mesh plate El11's.  Using JRiver MC25 along with Sonarworks 4, and Sennheiser 800 and Schitt Gungnir Dac.  The interplay between the El38 and El39 seems to be more than the sum of either.  The bass has increased, which with the Senn 800 is very noticable, in a good way to be sure.  Vocals are exceptional across the tonal range.  Watching the music trace on the analyzer, the levels have increased over a pair of El39's and watching the two channel traces, was interesting how they seem to interact.  Listening to solo piano, the notes are crystal clear, no ringing on the signal at all, and the rise time seems faster.  Almost bigger than life.  Almost.  I only have one El38adapter so will have to order another before I can try a pair of these special tubes together.  But according CJ, the El38 and El39 seem to work so well, but still want to know what if any difference a pair of the Mazda tubes will make. Could not discern any difference on the analyzer display between the Mazda and the Miniwatt tubes, so I think CJ was right about being the same except in name.


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 15, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Received my Mazda El38 and Miniwatt El38 today.  Have about four hours on them now, and they are sounding excellent. Used one El38 along with an El39 powers and a pair of Mesh plate El11's.  Using JRiver MC25 along with Sonarworks 4, and Sennheiser 800 and Schitt Gungnir Dac.  The interplay between the El38 and El39 seems to be more than the sum of either.  The bass has increased, which with the Senn 800 is very noticable, in a good way to be sure.  Vocals are exceptional across the tonal range.  Watching the music trace on the analyzer, the levels have increased over a pair of El39's and watching the two channel traces, was interesting how they seem to interact.  Listening to solo piano, the notes are crystal clear, no ringing on the signal at all, and the rise time seems faster.  Almost bigger than life.  Almost.  I only have one El38adapter so will have to order another before I can try a pair of these special tubes together.  But according CJ, the El38 and El39 seem to work so well, but still want to know what if any difference a pair of the Mazda tubes will make. Could not discern any difference on the analyzer display between the Mazda and the Miniwatt tubes, so I think CJ was right about being the same except in name.



Hi CF, and I wonder where in the world (other than from @hypnos1 LOL) you managed to get those ultra rare Mazdas and Miniwatts EL38s !  Interesting the analyzer data !


----------



## DecentLevi

ummm. sorry for your wallet but this is SO GOOOOOOD I it would be a crime to keep it to myself. And thanks to the Euforia as a tube buffer 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-61#post-15124800


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## hypnos1 (Aug 15, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Received my Mazda El38 and Miniwatt El38 today.  Have about four hours on them now, and they are sounding excellent. Used one El38 along with an El39 powers and a pair of Mesh plate El11's.  Using JRiver MC25 along with Sonarworks 4, and Sennheiser 800 and Schitt Gungnir Dac.  The interplay between the El38 and El39 seems to be more than the sum of either.  The bass has increased, which with the Senn 800 is very noticable, in a good way to be sure.  Vocals are exceptional across the tonal range.  Watching the music trace on the analyzer, the levels have increased over a pair of El39's and watching the two channel traces, was interesting how they seem to interact.  Listening to solo piano, the notes are crystal clear, no ringing on the signal at all, and the rise time seems faster.  Almost bigger than life.  Almost.  I only have one El38adapter so will have to order another before I can try a pair of these special tubes together.  But according CJ, the El38 and El39 seem to work so well, but still want to know what if any difference a pair of the Mazda tubes will make. Could not discern any difference on the analyzer display between the Mazda and the Miniwatt tubes, so I think CJ was right about being the same except in name.



Ah so, cf...looks like I shan't be getting those tubes back now lol!! ...unless mine give up the ghost (Heaven forbid!).

Glad that once again my ears haven't been deceiving me...one can never be 100% sure!  And, of course, it's still early days for your own listening sessions. I myself am still discovering new delights with each and every one of my favourite test pieces I revisit. And it's interesting to see the results from your analyzer - it's always nice to get _visual_ indication of what one is _hearing_.

I'm also happy to say that my early slight concerns that the superlative bass and lower mids delivery might just be a tad OTT for me are still dismissed entirely. Although such a rich and dynamic presentation leans more to what might be called the 'warm' or 'dark' side of neutral, as opposed to the 'bright' side, I personally have come to really appreciate (and love) this type of sound...the kind of 'fullness' that I was so happy to hear from Euforia when I plugged in the cans for the very first time. Ever since, I have never wanted to go back to a 'thinner' type of sound...hence my continued love of the EL family of tubes. Having said that, perhaps the 'special' EL38/39 combo might just be a little too much in an already dark system, especially re. headphones...but boy, that would have to be a _very_ unbalanced setup IMHO!! 

Anyway, mon ami, I wish you continued joy with these tubes...and I promise folks here to do my utmost to try and find more of these particular EL38s (but as @Johnnysound so rightly said, these are no doubt even more rare than the wonderful EL39!)....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. By the way cf, and anyone else lucky enough to find a 'special' EL38 (or two) and who has my EL39 adapters, this particular 38 *can* also be used in them...all it needs is to 'strap' (ie.link) the adapter's socket pin#1 to pin#8 using _thin, stranded_ wire (the best you can find). And they're easy to locate, as they're the ones either side of the indent that indicates where the tube's base lug should be fitted. And hopefully this should help maximise performance over 3rd party adapters.


----------



## connieflyer

Ordered another El38 adapter from Mrs X last night.  Thought I had two but no. The more I hear of this combo, I really wonder if two of these special El 38's might be two much "of a good thing".  Will have to wait a week to see.  If it is too much, then at least I will have a spare!  Thanks again CJ, price was more than worth it.


----------



## barontan2418

Hi all.
I thought myself very lucky to pick up a second mesh Telefunken EL11 but can I get them to work together in my Euforia, no way. Vocals and music in general is not centred as if one tube is weaker. However when I use the weaker tube in the Elise paired with  Valvo all is good if fact very good. Any logical reason for this you guys can think of.
Euforia is now running on all light grey Tele EL11 and the very old (39) mesh Tele EL11 and is probably the best I've heard the amp sound. So all is good.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 16, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Hi all.
> I thought myself very lucky to pick up a second mesh Telefunken EL11 but can I get them to work together in my Euforia, no way. Vocals and music in general is not centred as if one tube is weaker. However when I use the weaker tube in the Elise paired with  Valvo all is good if fact very good. Any logical reason for this you guys can think of.
> Euforia is now running on all light grey Tele EL11 and the very old (39) mesh Tele EL11 and is probably the best I've heard the amp sound. So all is good.



Hi bt.

Methinks even Mr Spock would have raised an eyebrow or 2 over this one lol!!  I presume you swapped the 2 meshes over to confirm it wasn't a driver/power issue? And have you tried it back in Euforia to see if it's still the same?...(I'm wondering if perhaps a pin or 2 wasn't shiny clean, and removing/reinserting in Elise improved contact?).

Otherwise, the fact that the 'weaker' one is fine in Elise, and the grey TFK fine with the other mesh in Euforia really is very strange indeed!!...GOOD LUCK!

ps. At least it's good to hear you're still delighted with the 2x TFK EL11s that do live together happily! ...CJ

pps. Did you remove the tube from its adapter when transferring to Elise, or both together?


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt.
> 
> Methinks even Mr Spock would have raised an eyebrow or 2 over this one lol!!  I presume you swapped the 2 meshes over to confirm it wasn't a driver/power issue? And have you tried it back in Euforia to see if it's still the same?...(I'm wondering if perhaps a pin or 2 wasn't shiny clean, and removing/reinserting in Elise improved contact?).
> 
> ...



Thanks H1.
Yes done all the above but I,m now sharing these excellent mesh 11's between both amps and loving the sound from both so a win situation. If you ever spy any more reasonably priced EL39's drop me a line, will forever be in your debt. Take care.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Thanks H1.
> Yes done all the above but I,m now sharing these excellent mesh 11's between both amps and loving the sound from both so a win situation. If you ever spy any more reasonably priced EL39's drop me a line, will forever be in your debt. Take care.



Aha bt, yes indeed...perhaps a blessing in disguise as now _both_ amps can benefit!! . 

Don't know if you caught my pps in the last post, but was wondering if it was possibly down to the adapter itself...


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Aha bt, yes indeed...perhaps a blessing in disguise as now _both_ amps can benefit!! .
> 
> Don't know if you caught my pps in the last post, but was wondering if it was possibly down to the adapter itself...


Yes I coverd that possibility to no avail. Thanks. I'm happy anyway, dont believe the results would have been that much better had the two mesh tubes sat side by side.


----------



## barontan2418

Hi mordy.
Has your Elise sold? Wonder if I'm the only one now with both.


----------



## mordy

Yes, just sold it. 
I still have the Euforia.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Hi mordy.
> Has your Elise sold? Wonder if I'm the only one now with both.


You're not the only one bt, I have both too .


----------



## triggsviola

Scutey said:


> You're not the only one bt, I have both too .


One for the office and one for the bedroom!


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> You're not the only one bt, I have both too .



Yes I think they are both keepers for me. My journey I think! has come to an end.


----------



## OctavianH

triggsviola said:


> One for the office and one for the bedroom!



If you are lucky enough to work in a place where open / semi-open headphones are not disturbing others. In my case this is out of the question.
I need to change my job, I know.


----------



## Scutey

triggsviola said:


> One for the office and one for the bedroom!


Nice!


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Yes I think they are both keepers for me. My journey I think! has come to an end.


Good to hear bt, they're certainly great amps.


----------



## aqsw

I have both also,
Elise#28, and Euforia#7


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 17, 2019)

As is well known by now  (I assume) the EL39s
do need a very extended burn in to sound best, or (perhaps) to even *begin *sounding up to their real capabilities.  In Euforia as triodes, the voltages involved are quite low for those  sturdy pro tubes, designed to withstand much higher voltages plus a lot of heat and punishment in cinema amps.

I subjected my quartet (intentionally) to some 80 hours (or more) of high power, “hot burn”  on my power amp, then reinstalled a pair in Euforia...and yes, they sounded better, more open, detailed and with tighter bass.  But with further 80 hours or so in Euforia the sound is even better and the tubes do not cease to surprise me with new subtle details, openness,  precision (similar impressions as @hypnos1) that become evident only after  *many* hours of burn-in.... and I feel that the tubes have not reached yet their full potential.

Apart from the EL32 (the notoriously “slow burning” champions)  now I suspect that almost all “EL” tubes do need many hours of burn in to sound best.  The EL38s have improved a whole lot after a good 120 hours, and the same can be said of the EL11s...


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 17, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> As is well known by now  (I assume) the EL39s
> do need a very extended burn in to sound best, or (perhaps) to even *begin *sounding up to their real capabilities.  In Euforia as triodes, the voltages involved are quite low for those  sturdy pro tubes, designed to withstand much higher voltages plus a lot of heat and punishment in cinema amps.
> 
> I subjected my quartet (intentionally) to some 80 hours (or more) of high power, “hot burn”  on my power amp, then reinstalled a pair in Euforia...and yes, they sounded better, more open, detailed and with tighter bass.  But with further 80 hours or so in Euforia the sound is even better and the tubes do not cease to surprise me with new subtle details, openness,  precision (similar impressions as @hypnos1) that become evident only after  *many* hours of burn-in.... and I feel that the tubes have not reached yet their full potential.
> ...



Hi J. Glad to hear I haven't been fooling myself with the continued improvement of the EL39s...the longest period of any other tubes, including other ELs, I have known (even the (in)famous Russian Reflector 6N30P DR lol! ). And given I must have been using my own 39s a good bit longer than yourself, I'm sure there's more yet to come for you too!

It's also nice to hear you've been pushing these tubes *far* harder in your power amp than will ever happen in Euforia. Which bodes especially well for both the tubes' and amp's longevity...NICE! All you need now is to slip even just _one_ 'special' Mazda/Dario EL38 somewhere in the mix, light the fuse and _stand_ _well back!! ...CJ
_
ps. Although I've now been using the same mesh plate Valvo EL11s for a_ very_ long while, now you come to mention it, they too did keep on getting better and better over the long haul. Plus, their output is as strong now as it was over 2 years ago...can't be bad! And I can't repeat often enough that with the EL tubes running the amp _so_ cool, this must mean a _much_ longer life for all internal components...


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 18, 2019)

Hi guys.

As an adjunct to what @Johnnysound was reminding us about re. the need for _many _hours' burn in of the EL38 and 39 power tubes for them to shine in all their glory, I'm currently being reminded of the (important) part also played by different _types_ and _quality_ of music passed through our glass wonders.

Although my 'special' MAZDA EL38 was obviously a used tube - even if not heavily - its continued improvement (partnering an EL39) is undoubtedly assisted by hours of repeated bass-heavy material, along with that of high treble and everything in between lol!... plus a good helping of hi-res pieces... all are essential for efficient burn-in. This I take as spoken, and all contribute to the usual terms referred to as "transient & dynamics handling/FR extension/soundstage/tonality/PRaT/cohesion" etc. etc.

But what today has hit me more than ever before is a system's ability to deliver all this _as if there at a live performance. _The performance in question is Loreena McKennitt's 'Nights from the Alhambra', on DVD with 24bit 48khz audio out. I have watched and listened to this many times before, and been surprised at just how well recorded this was, not to mention the actual performance itself by a wonderful, first class group of musicians as well as Loreena herself. Anyway, all previous occasions have been blown away by said Mazda/39 combo - most unexpectedly in fact, and in every aspect you care to name, not just the initially obvious area of bass and lower mids. But perhaps most impressive of all is how I was drawn into this, for me, very (over?!) familiar concert like never before...I was _there in the audience_, not just experiencing a very enjoyable performance _on a TV screen_ (albeit with a nice headphone setup!). _No other_ tube combination in my setup has ever come close to this delivery...and so for just this experience alone I give thanks to whichever Mighty Being may be up (or down!) there, helping me in this discovery. I now know the _true_ meaning of Audio Nirvana...and am eternally grateful for it......CHEERS and HAPPY LISTENING! everyone...CJ

ps. This has also been helped of course by the superlative Meze Empyrean headphones lol!


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 18, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm currently being reminded of the (important) part also played by different _types_ and _quality_ of music passed through our glass wonders....


@hypnos1 thank you for pointing out this important, IMO often overlooked factor in assessing our gear. I've been getting to know my Elise over the last few months, and at times when I find the bass a bit flabby or the mids showing smear, I return to a well-known track and recognize it is likely the recording that produced the issues. That's why I'm trying to be patient before considering a tube roll, as tempting as it is. I want to more fully assess what the Elise's strengths and weakness are with stock tubes before moving to my next effort to achieve musical bliss. To date, with ~ 200 hours on Elise, the amp is impressing me more and more, very musical, surprisingly quick and clean with complex musical passages. Areas for improvement may be to achieve a bit cleaner, punchier bass, and reduce the touch of grain / sibilance still present in the mids with female vocals. I would prefer cymbals and snares to be a little snappier, but I LOVE the way Elise handles the upper registers of classical piano, my preferred genre. It is incisive and well-extended but still smooth, non-fatiguing, and I wouldn't want to add any ear-piercing stridency to that just to render cymbals with more "ting." Any tube suggestions given the above are of course welcomed, and the journey continues...


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 19, 2019)

...


----------



## andybo

Hello. I have Euforia with stock tubes.  What can i do to make the eurofira more open and resolution ( good for orchestral classical sound ) . With tube i should take ?  I think to let the driver tubes on. And change to power tubes? But what for tubes and where i can them buy?   Or should i change all 4 tubes?  
Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> No doubt superlative headphones are precision instruments that will bring you closer to “Audio Nirvana” with Euforia...
> 
> On the other hand, Euforia is also a superb OTL preamplifier, and in this role I don’t know if its performace is close to ”nirvana” or not, because there are many other variables involved.  With my current reference RFT EL11/EL39 setup, I put Euforia  to the test against another preamp with “state of the art” tubes, doing  extensive  A/B comparisons.
> 
> ...



My goodness J, that's one Hell-of-an endorsement for Euforia as pre-amp lol!  With these latest EL tubes, she certainly mates well with your Jolida power amp....it's about time I checked out what mine with the 'special' MAZDA EL38/EL39 combo does for my Vincent SS integrated (if my poor little Dynaudio standmounts can handle the enhanced bass, that is!! ). Speaking of which, I suspect this MAZDA (or Dario) EL38 might well bring that extra bass definition of the Sylvanias you mentioned . This, along with all the other qualities you described in the A/B pre-amp shootout, is certainly what struck me more than ever with that Loreena McKennitt concert I raved about just prior...and which clearly contributed to that magical "there in the audience" experience I still can't get over!


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 19, 2019)

andybo said:


> Hello. I have Euforia with stock tubes.  What can i do to make the eurofira more open and resolution ( good for orchestral classical sound ) . With tube i should take ?  I think to let the driver tubes on. And change to power tubes? But what for tubes and where i can them buy?   Or should i change all 4 tubes?
> Thanks



Hi andybo, and welcome!... congrats on getting the Euforia, a wise choice IMHO .

As for tubes, how many hours have you put on both them and the amp? Stock tubes (and amp) will need a good 100+ hours before one can really begin to appreciate what they're all capable of. And good though the stock tubes are, Euforia's performance can be elevated a good deal by other, older versions. A quick flip through previous posts will give you an idea of what can be expected (but will still need a fair amount of time investment!).

Probably the biggest leap in performance - especially for Classical - would come from using EL38s as power tubes...drivers could wait a bit longer! Prices for the EL38s have risen since this discovery, and availability isn't as good either. But if you're interested, others here might have some spare tubes at reasonable prices, or I myself will probably soon be offering a few to folks here on the thread.

In the meantime, continue to enjoy your amp as it probably hasn't yet reached its full potential if still fairly new.


----------



## OctavianH

The inside of Euforia, posted yesterday by F.A on Facebook. I post here for those not using Facebook.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks for that shot of Euforia's latest internals @OctavianH ...very interesting!

F-A would appear to have made quite a few changes to the original design, as can be seen compared to the photo similar to the one I showed on the very first post of this thread...ie.



                                  Latest                                                                                      Original/Prototype


----------



## connieflyer

Just a quick update, got an email from Lukasz today, and he let me know the new Euforia Anniversary amp, they are looking at a September launch.  Still working out the details of the launch with Upscale Audio in the US.  A teaser picture for you.


----------



## Mh996

connieflyer said:


> Just a quick update, got an email from Lukasz today, and he let me know the new Euforia Anniversary amp, they are looking at a September launch.  Still working out the details of the launch with Upscale Audio in the US.  A teaser picture for you.


And this is supposed to be a 2A3 design?


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## connieflyer (Aug 24, 2019)

This would be just like the Euforia with different components, a slight change from the stock amp, a new paint job with what looks to be a slightly gloss or semi-gloss paint done like automotive paint. And of course the 20th anniversary logo on the front. As to what else may be inside we may just have to wait for the


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## Johnnysound (Aug 24, 2019)

Three generations of Valvo EL11s   (with a bit of “tack” to put them side by side)...and “yours truly” appears reflected by the first one as a bonus  (LOL) !

The German seller told me that the “black glass chrome top”  on the left is a  forties vintage model (one of the earliest EL11 Valvos) and (sadly) it is NOT a mesh plate (hummm) but it do has black welded plates. Very nice sounding.   The center one might be from the fifties, and the “clear top” on the right (more common) from the sixties or seventies.

Now (finally) I can understand all the fuss about the Valvos...sweet sounding tubes !   highly detailed, refined all around and great bass !!  I also found that the vintage “black” one do have a distinct sound of its own...relaxed, wide, very special.

Their “oval plates” differ from the usual  TFK/RFT round ones, and their sound _may_ be a bit warmer. From first impressions, I found them perhaps sonically close to the excellent Tungsrams, (which in turn have unique “small diameter” round plates) but I feel that extended listening is mandatory to fully appreciate  the Valvos...


----------



## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> And this is supposed to be a 2A3 design?



Oh dear me no, Mh...the 2A3 based amp is going to be a totally different beast...in more ways than one lol!! It's going to be quite a monster, being both a hi-end headphone _and _speaker amp, also with the option for STAX hp output! And will, no doubt, come with a rather hefty price tag alas . And from the early design concepts, is going to look a lot different to conventional fare...a very nice, more 'modern' look in fact . But it would appear there's going to be quite a long wait yet for it to be finalised...


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 24, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Three generations of Valvo EL11s   (with a bit of “tack” to put them side by side)...and “yours truly” appears reflected by the first one as a bonus  (LOL) !
> 
> The German seller told me that the “black glass chrome top”  on the left is a  forties vintage model (one of the earliest EL11 Valvos) and (sadly) it is NOT a mesh plate (hummm) but it do has black welded plates. Very nice sounding.   The center one might be from the fifties, and the “clear top” on the right (more common) from the sixties or seventies.
> 
> ...



Nice collection of EL11s there J. And I would agree that the early, _black_ glass Valvos deliver what I personally regard as a slightly better balanced sound overall, with a tad more 'musicality' and yes, a touch 'warmer'. More towards the EL3N in fact, but better overall IMHO. Which is not surprising really, as the Philips stable - as with the EL3N - obviously used the _oval _plate mostly in this series of tubes, as opposed to the German (TFK etc. design) large _round_ plate.

A real shame your black Valvo doesn't have the mesh plate...it manages to combine the EL3N-type virtues (but with better bass/lower mids) with the incisiveness of the German design...sheer perfection lol!  And its pedigree/sound style does show its EL3N DNA as I have a mesh-plated (oval) Australian Philips EL3N*G* - also black glass - that sounds identical to the Valvo...(so keep an eye out on ebay.au or Australian tube sellers for this one, along with the equally rare mesh plated, black Valvo). As you say, even the 'ordinary' plate Valvo has a "very special" sound...ENJOY!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> This would be just like the Euforia with different components slight change from the stock app, a new paint job with what looks to be a slightly gloss or semi-gloss paint done like automotive paint. And of course the 20th anniversary logo on the front. As to what else may be inside we may just have to wait for the



Hi cf...that gloss finish almost looks as nice as (real) Japanese lacquer, or the gorgeous finish on a Steinway/Bosendorfer Concert Piano lol...very classy!  And at last, some (visible) graduations on the vol knob!

But what really matters is, of course, the component upgrades...and Lukasz himself is very pleased with the Anniversary (Limited) Edition's performance. So it should be very interesting indeed if one can do an A/B with the current incarnation...time will tell! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Aug 25, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Nice collection of EL11s there J. And I would agree that the early, _black_ glass Valvos deliver what I personally regard as a slightly better balanced sound overall, with a tad more 'musicality' and yes, a touch 'warmer'. More towards the EL3N in fact, but better overall IMHO. Which is not surprising really, as the Philips stable - as with the EL3N - obviously used the _oval _plate mostly in this series of tubes, as opposed to the German (TFK etc. design) large _round_ plate.
> 
> A real shame your black Valvo doesn't have the mesh plate...it manages to combine the EL3N-type virtues (but with better bass/lower mids) *with the incisiveness of the German design..*.sheer perfection lol!  And its pedigree/sound style does show its EL3N DNA as I have a mesh-plated (oval) Australian Philips EL3N*G* - also black glass - that sounds identical to the Valvo...(so keep an eye out on ebay.au or Australian tube sellers for this one, along with the equally rare mesh plated, black Valvo). As you say, even the 'ordinary' plate Valvo has a "very special" sound...ENJOY!!...CJ



Indeed...the Valvo EL11s sound is very well balanced overall, but the early black glass ones deliver a very special “musicality” that sets them apart (in a subtle way) from later  models.  Hard to describe, but it is a good example of classic vintage, sweet tube sound ...with dynamics, definition, great bass and none of the shortcomings of some old tubes.  A joy to listen to with headphones.

Having experienced EL11s from TFK,RFT,Valvo and Tungsram driving the EL39s in Euforia, both as HP amp and as a preamp, I would say that the performance of the EL11 tubes was highly  dependent  of  their role.  In HP duties the Valvos were (probably) the best sounding overall  because of their utterly balanced, refined presentation  of the whole musical spectrum...truly enjoyable.  On the other hand, in preamp duties driving a PA with 4xEl38s powers which are a touch warm & dark  (classic British sound) you do need definition, clarity and “incisiveness” (as H1 said) from the preamp, and the results were the other way around:  The RFTs were THE preamp tubes of choice, followed by the TFKs, Valvos and Tungsrams...

As a side note, my RFT EL11s  improved a lot after 50 hours or so from new...now I like them even more: it is a punchy, very dynamic & detailed tube with great, tight bass...this one is  a “must have” in Euforia.

I think it is interesting to share a different perspective since there are no absolute values in tubes, it all depends on the particular application, system or even musical preferences...


----------



## mordy

Johnnysound said:


> Indeed...the Valvo EL11s sound is very well balanced overall, but the early black glass ones deliver a very special “musicality” that sets them apart (in a subtle way) from later  models.  Hard to describe, but it is a good example of classic vintage, sweet tube sound ...with dynamics, definition, great bass and none of the shortcomings of some old tubes.  A joy to listen to with headphones.
> 
> Having experienced EL11s from TFK,RFT,Valvo and Tungsram driving the EL39s in Euforia, both as HP amp and as a preamp, I would say that the performance of the EL11 tubes was highly  dependent  of  their role.  In HP duties the Valvos were (probably) the best sounding overall  because of their utterly balanced, refined presentation  of the whole musical spectrum...truly enjoyable.  On the other hand, in preamp duties driving a PA with 4xEl38s powers which are a touch warm & dark  (classic British sound) you do need definition, clarity and “incisiveness” (as H1 said) from the preamp, and the results were the other way around:  The RFTs were THE preamp tubes of choice, followed by the TFKs, Valvos and Tungsrams...
> 
> ...


_There are no absolute values in tubes, it all depends on the particular application, system or even musical preferences..._

This is a true word. The same tube can sound below average in one amp and sound great in another amp - hence hard to give general recommendations across the board.
There seems to be some tubes that sound good in many amps, but it all boils down to synergy with other tubes, equipment and personal preferences.
However, regarding recommendations for people who have the same amp it is much easier to agree on certain tubes or tube combinations.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 25, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Indeed...the Valvo EL11s sound is very well balanced overall, but the early black glass ones deliver a very special “musicality” that sets them apart (in a subtle way) from later  models.  Hard to describe, but it is a good example of classic vintage, sweet tube sound ...with dynamics, definition, great bass and none of the shortcomings of some old tubes.  A joy to listen to with headphones.
> 
> Having experienced EL11s from TFK,RFT,Valvo and Tungsram driving the EL39s in Euforia, both as HP amp and as a preamp, I would say that the performance of the EL11 tubes was highly  dependent  of  their role.  In HP duties the Valvos were (probably) the best sounding overall  because of their utterly balanced, refined presentation  of the whole musical spectrum...truly enjoyable.  On the other hand, in preamp duties driving a PA with 4xEl38s powers which are a touch warm & dark  (classic British sound) you do need definition, clarity and “incisiveness” (as H1 said) from the preamp, and the results were the other way around:  The RFTs were THE preamp tubes of choice, followed by the TFKs, Valvos and Tungsrams...
> 
> ...



Hi J...no _absolute_ values indeed, but as @mordy says, at least we're on safer ground with the same amp used lol!  But what I would add is that certain tubes definitely keep upping their game exponentially in concert with the quality of the rest of one's gear, and I personally believe this applies especially to our use of 'unconventional'/unconfigured-for triode-strapped pentodes. And most of all to the latest EL38s and EL39s. For some strange (but wonderful!) reason, our amps - especially Euforia - seem able to squeeze ever more from these tubes...to the point where I simply can't imagine an amp specifically configured for these tubes delivering a significantly better sound (unless built using horrendously expensive components!! ). So we are very fortunate indeed that we can in fact enjoy these particular tubes especially to such advantage...and I for one am especially glad that with these tubes in place, I feel no need whatsoever for either a multiple array of tubes, or the (hotly debated!) need(?) for tube rectification...it's complex - and costly! - enough experimenting with different combinations of driver and power tubes to find the sound that suits our preferences, without adding yet further variables into the mix IMHO lol! 

And yes, I can well imagine that 4x EL38s would benefit from (nay _need_) the kind of driving that comes from the German design of EL11. And it's very interesting that when I first experimented with this tube, the East German RFT brand was a good bit cheaper than pretty well any other version. And yet now, some of the prices being asked are quite (ridiculously?!) extortionate......??? But although these are excellent performers in Euforia for hp use, I suspect the Valvos would indeed appeal just a bit more to most folks' tastes. But whichever version is chosen, I do believe that there's a special 'relationship' going on between the EL11 as driver to the EL38/EL39 as power...no question!!


----------



## mordy

It is my impression that certain professional sellers are watching these threads and when a new wundertube appears, suddenly ads pop up for this tube, at very high prices, driving up the prices from the regular non-professional sellers.
Big brother is watching:
I once wanted to look up the origin of the expression "holy mackerel". Next thing there appeared ads on Google from travel agencies organizing tours to the Vatican.......


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> It is my impression that certain professional sellers are watching these threads and when a new wundertube appears, suddenly ads pop up for this tube, at very high prices, driving up the prices from the regular non-professional sellers.
> *Big brother is watching:*
> I once wanted to look up the origin of the expression "holy mackerel". Next thing there appeared ads on Google from travel agencies organizing tours to the Vatican.......



Yo, mordy...I've suspected this for a long while now, and have always had to think carefully before expounding the virtues of a tube that appeared to have real potential! In the end, I simply hoped that enough of our fellow members would be able to sample them before the profiteers jumped in lol! ...(but it's still rather annoying!! ...).


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys. A quick note for anyone who thinks there might just be a loose wire connection in one (or more?!) pin(s) of a troublesome tube, and who's not afraid of a soldering iron or just a little more surgery.

I've just had an EL39 (yes, a 39!! ) die on me, and luckily it was the heater that went, so could only be one pin - or both! - at fault (if not inside the tube itself). So I did the trick mentioned by @mordy in the past and held a soldering iron to one of the pins for a while (keeping it fairly horizontal)..._success!. _Overjoyed also at finding the culprit straight off, I breathed a sigh of relief... *However*, it didn't last unfortunately!  

Rather than try again - I suspected there was probably only a little solder used originally - I used a hacksaw to cut off just a small length of pin to gain access directly to the wire, and my suspicions were confirmed...very little solder in sight. So I wedged a short piece of copper wire *tightly *inside, against the pin's wire and resoldered it...hey presto, permanent job this time!

And so, folks, rather than bin such a very rare and precious tube - or any other! - if encountering something similar, even if you don't feel confident yourself, try to find someone who might possibly be able to carry out this relatively simple repair job for you...well worth a bottle of (good) wine lol! 

The culprit in question, complete with shortened pin (before soldering)  :

 

ps. Just goes to show that even otherwise very well constructed tubes can sometimes have unexpected weak spots in manufacture lol!! ...CJ


----------



## mordy

Very impressive rescue of ol' 39!


----------



## Taojump

Hey guys!
Just wanted to thank all of you guys that been sharing your tube rolling passion. I have read the whole thread since I was thinking to get the Euforia to use with my soon to arrive Meze Empyrean. At the moment I changed my mind however and will try out a non-tube amp instead.

Soo thanks..its been fun reading.


----------



## mordy

Taojump said:


> Hey guys!
> Just wanted to thank all of you guys that been sharing your tube rolling passion. I have read the whole thread since I was thinking to get the Euforia to use with my soon to arrive Meze Empyrean. At the moment I changed my mind however and will try out a non-tube amp instead.
> 
> Soo thanks..its been fun reading.


You get an A for effort! - it is a long thread!


----------



## Taojump

mordy said:


> You get an A for effort! - it is a long thread!



Sure is, took me two weeks. But I do however have a lot of knowledge about tubes now, it's a shame I probably never will have any use for that knowledge. 

I decided to go down the easy road with non-tubes, tubes are sexy and all but I feel that it will be too much of a fuzz for me to get good tubes.


----------



## mordy

Jag trodde alltid detta ocksa, men det ar mycket lattare an du tror.


----------



## triggsviola

mordy said:


> Jag trodde alltid detta ocksa, men det ar mycket lattare an du tror.


Is this more audiophile jargon that I pretend to understand?


----------



## Taojump (Aug 28, 2019)

Yeah its the Swedish version, its the next level. Turns out that gear sound better if you talk Swedish to it


----------



## mordy

triggsviola said:


> Is this more audiophile jargon that I pretend to understand?


Even though I left Sweden (where I grew up) 52 years ago, I still speak Swedish.
Seeing that Taojump resides in Sweden I decided to answer in Swedish.
He mentioned that he thought that it would be too much of a difficulty to get good tubes.
My answer was: I always thought so as well, but it is much easier than you think.
Speaking about audiophile jargon, I just now tried to look up what Cathode poisoning means.....


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Very impressive rescue of ol' 39!



Thanks mordy...years of trying to master the use of a soldering iron - which started only when getting hooked on this hobby of ours - has certainly paid dividends in more ways than one lol!  I heartily recommend anyone to at least give it a try......(but advise caution and patience....and yet more patience!! )...


----------



## Johnnysound (Aug 30, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J...no _absolute_ values indeed, but as @mordy says, at least we're on safer ground with the same amp used lol!  But what I would add is that certain tubes definitely keep upping their game exponentially in concert with the quality of the rest of one's gear, and I personally believe this applies especially to our use of 'unconventional'/unconfigured-for triode-strapped pentodes. And most of all to the latest EL38s and EL39s. For some strange (but wonderful!) reason, our amps - especially Euforia - seem able to squeeze ever more from these tubes...to the point where I simply can't imagine an amp specifically configured for these tubes delivering a significantly better sound (unless built using horrendously expensive components!! ). So we are very fortunate indeed that we can in fact enjoy these particular tubes especially to such advantage...and I for one am especially glad that with these tubes in place, I feel no need whatsoever for either a multiple array of tubes, or the (hotly debated!) need(?) for tube rectification...it's complex - and costly! - enough experimenting with different combinations of driver and power tubes to find the sound that suits our preferences, without adding yet further variables into the mix IMHO lol!
> 
> And yes, I can well imagine that 4x EL38s would benefit from (nay _need_) the kind of driving that comes from the German design of EL11. And it's very interesting that when I first experimented with this tube, the East German RFT brand was a good bit cheaper than pretty well any other version. And yet now, some of the prices being asked are quite (ridiculously?!) extortionate......??? But although these are excellent performers in Euforia for hp use, I suspect the Valvos would indeed appeal just a bit more to most folks' tastes. But whichever version is chosen, I do believe that there's a special 'relationship' going on between the EL11 as driver to the EL38/EL39 as power...no question!!



Yes, we’re indeed on safer ground with the same amp used, but  even with the same amp it was amazing how the EL11 tubes performed differently in Euforia with HPs or as a preamp...in my system of course.   As we roll tubes in Euforia to optimize it for our favorite headphones,  the same can be said for the particular PA used, and my Jolida Fusion with 4xEL38s powers on it is a demanding animal (not to mention the splendor of 4xEL39s).  Since I have “only”  four EL39s I (reluctantly) opted to use a pair in Euforia, and the mix with the power 38s resulted phenomenal:  at last a preamp power tube able to fully control the wild bass of the EL38s, with dynamics and precision.   With all six heavyweights down the chain, you need neutral , clear, precise drivers upfront on the preamp.  Having tried many types (and as you said, for some _strange_ reason) the EL11s of _any_ brand showed (on the whole) simply _superior_ synergy with both the EL38s and EL39s.

BTW, fitting such “thoroughbreds” on the power amp created a real problem with the “phase inverters”, (the single stage  between the pre and power tubes), because the whole sound, bass, tended to be either unsatisfactory or way over the top with the majority of tubes, even highly regarded ones.  Unexpectedly, the humble RFTs ECC81s, (at $10 each) made the 38s and 39s sound at their best.   Mysteries of tubes...and while looking around found a pair of NOS “holy grail” TFK ECC801S ($150 each) rebranded as Siemens for $80 the pair...great tubes.

So the “relativity” of tubes is allways  there:  4xEL39s in the power amp, driven by Euforia with EL11s plus “black glass” early Mullard EL38s sounded, well...astonishingly good, albeit different.    The 39s are  powerful tubes, and their sound as pentodes (as designed) is way biased into strict neutrality and accuracy, with impactful bass & dynamics.   They need a long burn in to open up tough, and only after that they came close to the “triode like” musicality & wide bandwidth openness of the EL38s (that may have  “looser” bass, but really deep and expressive) being IMHO very hard to beat as power tubes.  Fully matured, the 39s were truly magnificent in their own way...and I felt that Euforia (with the 38s) offered the precise balance...which combo to choose ?  difficult question, but this is why this hobby can be so fun, isn’t it ?


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Yes, we’re indeed on safer ground with the same amp used, but  even with the same amp it was amazing how the EL11 tubes performed differently in Euforia with HPs or as a preamp...in my system of course.   As we roll tubes in Euforia to optimize it for our favorite headphones,  the same can be said for the particular PA used, and my Jolida Fusion with 4xEL38s powers on it is a demanding animal (not to mention the splendor of 4xEL39s).  Since I have “only”  four EL39s I (reluctantly) opted to use a pair in Euforia, and the mix with the power 38s resulted phenomenal:  at last a preamp power tube able to fully control the wild bass of the EL38s, with dynamics and precision.   With all six heavyweights down the chain, you need neutral , clear, precise drivers upfront on the preamp.  Having tried many types (and as you said, for some _strange_ reason) the EL11s of _any_ brand showed (on the whole) simply _superior_ synergy with both the EL38s and EL39s.
> 
> BTW, fitting such “thoroughbreds” on the power amp created a real problem with the “phase inverters”, (the single stage  between the pre and power tubes), because the whole sound, bass, tended to be either unsatisfactory or way over the top with the majority of tubes, even highly regarded ones.  Unexpectedly, the humble RFTs ECC81s, (at $10 each) made the 38s and 39s sound at their best.   Mysteries of tubes...and while looking around found a pair of NOS “holy grail” TFK ECC801S ($150 each) rebranded as Siemens for $80 the pair...great tubes.
> 
> So the “relativity” of tubes is allways  there:  4xEL39s in the power amp, driven by Euforia with EL11s plus “black glass” early Mullard EL38s sounded, well...astonishingly good, albeit different.    The 39s are  powerful tubes, and their sound as pentodes (as designed) is way biased into strict neutrality and accuracy, with impactful bass & dynamics.   They need a long burn in to open up tough, and only after that they came close to the “triode like” musicality & wide bandwidth openness of the EL38s (that may have  “looser” bass, but really deep and expressive) being IMHO very hard to beat as power tubes.  Fully matured, the 39s were truly magnificent in their own way...and I felt that Euforia (with the 38s) offered the precise balance...which combo to choose ?  difficult question, but this is why this hobby can be so fun, isn’t it ?



Hi J...fun indeed...but can also be _very_ frustrating at one and the same time lol!  But then, _any_ endeavour worth its salt must include this element and be endured...(and mastered if at all possible! ).

You certainly have enough 'wundertubes' now to be enjoying stellar sound from both headphones _and_ speakers...I can't begin to imagine what your PA would deliver with 4x EL39s and 2x EL39s as powers in Euforia, driven by the EL11s (possibly the Valvos excelling this time, instead of the RFTs?). Glad too that you managed to remedy the 'phase inverter' problem...would have been a tragedy otherwise lol!

Anyway, inspired by your results with Euforia/EL11/EL39 combo as preamp, I decided to see if my poor little Dynaudio Focus 110s would be able to handle the amazing bass of the 'special' Mazda EL38 partnering a 39 as powers, via my Vincent SV121 integrated SS amp. Well, all I can say is..._I need some really nice floorstanders!!!_ Although these small standmounts sounded amazingly good - for their size and price - it was obvious Euforia + Vincent combo is capable of FAR more. Trouble is, I'd hardly ever be able to use them to full advantage alas (better half syndrome!)...hence my foray into headphone use. And because I have to place the speakers fairly close to the walls, I simply had to put in the back port bungs...which may tame the bass, but also takes away other elements of the sound delivery, I find .

What did fascinate me however was that after the wonderful separation/placement/wide, 3D soundstage of my HP system (especially with the Empyreans), I didn't really enjoy the speaker experience as much as before without moving closer to them to gain more of said hp (side-to-side) delivery!! So I'm now more content than ever to stick with the cans lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Aug 31, 2019)

_“What did fascinate me however was that after the wonderful separation/placement/wide, 3D soundstage of my HP system (especially with the Empyreans), I didn't really enjoy the speaker experience as much as before without moving closer to them to gain more of said hp (side-to-side) delivery!! So I'm now more content than ever to stick with the cans lol...”_

Well, Dynaudio are most excellent speakers for shure (but floorstanders are _very _expensive !) and with Euforia so configured, plus your very nice Vincent ss amp, ( Euforia _loves_ ss amps) bass would be _very_ powerful...too deep for a stand mounter I guess, judging by my floorstanders that are taxed almost to the max.   And of course, no speakers can  quite equal the performance of good cans (I remember this every time I switch from one to the other), and with your Empyreans...better forget it, you would need, say,  some 30k electrostatics (plus biamping) to be in the same sonic league.

 On the other hand, (with very good speakers) the unavoidable loss of resolution/separation/detail is compensated (in my view)  by their expansive “open air”, 3D, room filling presentation that may be  less accurate than that of good cans, but certainly no “open air” HPs can pretend to be better than _real_ air:   It allows the whole music (and bass) to develop and decay naturally in space, just like the real thing...and you can share your music with people, not a minor issue.

Oh yes, the “better half” syndrome !!...I had to swear mine that the new floorstanders would be “quite small” (haha).   There are so many excellent speakers in the UK...a little tip:   Monitor Audio is heavily discounting their “silver series”, VERY NICE  looking  floorstanders being replaced by a new model.   High probability of WF approval (LOL)  and great sounding loudspeakers...just be sure to get  one with dual 6 1/2” bass drivers...cheers !


----------



## connieflyer

Well, I have not had the pre-amp connected for a few months now, and seeing all this talk I decided I should give it try again.  This is the first outing with the Special EL 38 El 39 and two Valvo mesh plate EL 11's. I am running it through an Anthem MRX 720, SVS Ultra towers, SVS Ultra Center PSB surrounds and an SVS PC-12 Plus subwoofer.  With this tube combo the pre-amp out is extraordinary, have not heard it like this before, especially the bass.  The Ultra towers have dual 8" bass speakers in them, and they were very active indeed.  Diana Krall was to die for,  was ready to ask her out to dinner, so realistic and the presence was right her in the room. Treble was crystal clear, and there in equal amounts, so the whole sound stage was very believable.  Putting on the test tracks that I use,  the bass actually rattled the pictures on the wall, the signal around 35 Hz was sustained with no distortion, so much so you could feel in in your gut, as well as the floor and furniture.  Neighbors loved it. Tim had to come over to see what I was up to, so had to play a few more tracks at higher than normal, and I could see by his smile, he enjoyed it as well.  Wants me to invite his friend over, to demonstrate the system, his friend has a nice system as well, and Tim thought it would put him in his place, might have to do that.  At lower volume, it was still an engaging display of instrument placement, and levels.  The last combo's I used with the Euforia, were a quad of EL 38's and it was nice but nowhere's near as good as this.  The bass was much better controlled, and mid's were tighter as well.  Glad you folks talked about this subject again, had not thought about the pre amp since last time was not that good. This will be a very nice time filler come winter, when the house is all closed up, and the neighbors are not out and about.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Diana Krall was to die for, was ready to ask her out to dinner



Haha miss your sense of humour Don. Miss the bond we had together with @hypnos1 (Colin) and Pct - who is in heaven with a better sound system . Glad you guys are well and still enjoying this great hobby of ours. Take care.


----------



## connieflyer

Nice to hear from you UT, has been awhile.  Kind of miss the old days, and of course PCT, the 4 Musketeers was a neat group, within a group.  Hope all is well with you.


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> _“What did fascinate me however was that after the wonderful separation/placement/wide, 3D soundstage of my HP system (especially with the Empyreans), I didn't really enjoy the speaker experience as much as before without moving closer to them to gain more of said hp (side-to-side) delivery!! So I'm now more content than ever to stick with the cans lol...”_
> 
> Well, Dynaudio are most excellent speakers for shure (but floorstanders are _very _expensive !) and with Euforia so configured, plus your very nice Vincent ss amp, ( Euforia _loves_ ss amps) bass would be _very_ powerful...too deep for a stand mounter I guess, judging by my floorstanders that are taxed almost to the max.   And of course, no speakers can  quite equal the performance of good cans (I remember this every time I switch from one to the other), and with your Empyreans...better forget it, you would need, say,  some 30k electrostatics (plus biamping) to be in the same sonic league.
> 
> ...





connieflyer said:


> Well, I have not had the pre-amp connected for a few months now, and seeing all this talk I decided I should give it try again.  This is the first outing with the Special EL 38 El 39 and two Valvo mesh plate EL 11's. I am running it through an Anthem MRX 720, SVS Ultra towers, SVS Ultra Center PSB surrounds and an SVS PC-12 Plus subwoofer.  With this tube combo the pre-amp out is extraordinary, have not heard it like this before, especially the bass.  The Ultra towers have dual 8" bass speakers in them, and they were very active indeed.  Diana Krall was to die for,  was ready to ask her out to dinner, so realistic and the presence was right her in the room. Treble was crystal clear, and there in equal amounts, so the whole sound stage was very believable.  Putting on the test tracks that I use,  the bass actually rattled the pictures on the wall, the signal around 35 Hz was sustained with no distortion, so much so you could feel in in your gut, as well as the floor and furniture.  Neighbors loved it. Tim had to come over to see what I was up to, so had to play a few more tracks at higher than normal, and I could see by his smile, he enjoyed it as well.  Wants me to invite his friend over, to demonstrate the system, his friend has a nice system as well, and Tim thought it would put him in his place, might have to do that.  At lower volume, it was still an engaging display of instrument placement, and levels.  The last combo's I used with the Euforia, were a quad of EL 38's and it was nice but nowhere's near as good as this.  The bass was much better controlled, and mid's were tighter as well.  Glad you folks talked about this subject again, had not thought about the pre amp since last time was not that good. This will be a very nice time filler come winter, when the house is all closed up, and the neighbors are not out and about.



Hi guys. 

Well, these latest EL tubes certainly do seem to be working wonders for Euforia as pre-amp and not just cans lol!  Trouble is, for me, it's not just re. the _size_ of the speakers @Johnnysound I have to convince 'She who must be obeyed', but also it being a small household alas ...(badly in need of a 'Man Cave'!! ). I know 2x separate bass drivers are to be preferred, but I must admit I really like the look of the new Silver 200 (in 'Rosenut'), which get good reviews and I might just be able to get away with! As for 2x 8" bass drivers cf, _not a chance in Hell lol!!_...can't begin to imagine how the 'special' EL38/EL39 combo makes those beasts sing (shout?!!). No doubt your entire _street_ will come visiting very soon! ...(don't forget the entrance charge lol...).

ps. Have already sent a love letter to Loreena McKennitt after listening to her 'Nights from the Alhambra' the other day...but haven't heard anything back yet alas! ....no doubt I might have had more luck back in the days as an Officer (and Gentleman?) aboard the 'Love Boat' - ie. Pacific Princess...(those were the days!!). Ah well, one reaches an age when all is dreams, no?! 

pps. Miss the good ol' days as well @UntilThen ...good luck with your own journey......CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well, CJ, when you combine the dual 8 inch drivers on the two towers and the 12 inch on the sub, there is no shortage of bass to be sure.  What really amazes me, is with this combo of tubes the bass is so clear.  No distortion, even with high volume.  I was at half volume on the Euforia, and about -12db on the Anthem, all the speakers had just been equalized with the Arc to the room, and with the new Arc profile, the sound from the Anthem was the best I have heard here.  Momentarily I had the Anthem turned up to -9 db, but was afraid the cathedral ceiling might open up to the outside! One of these days, I am going to open up the volume all the way just to see what will happen. If nothing breaks, I am sure the police will be summoned after reports of explosions! These tubes are keepers for sure.


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## UntilThen

From across the oceans I’m waving to both of you. I’m glad you’re having so much fun in this hobby as much as I am. Stay well my friends.


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## connieflyer

And to you as well, UT.  Have a great and peaceful day.


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## hypnos1

Hi folks...*............................      UPDATE ON THE SPECIAL ANNIVERSARY EDITION EUFORIA...................
*
Lukasz has sent me more info re. the Special Edition Euforia, and which he'd like shared here.

It does indeed look like there are quite a few nice upgrades to different areas of the amp which, along with the really nice gloss paint finish (special automotive quality 'Space Grey'), would explain the 35% or so premium on the price...viz :

1. "New, low noise-design transformer, giving better EMI protection".
2.  Neotech UP-OCC (mono crystal) copper wiring for the signal path which, among other things, should give smoother treble performance for systems on the 'bright' side for example.
3. Upgraded internals such as ClarityCap capacitors with CopperConnect technology, "for extra smoothness and clarity".
4. Redesigned constant-current source modules for improved power supply (plus mains conditioning effect).

F-A themselves are excited about the end result of implementing such upgrades, after accumulated findings re. current Euforia model and their on-going 'super' 2A3-based hp and speaker amp. And I for one am inclined to believe them, from the alterations mentioned...

A reminder of how it actually looks......


   

ps. Would _love_ to do an A/B with my current setup...fingers crossed lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Sent you a reply from previous email.  Sounds good so far. Still waiting to see what Upscale Audio will charge.


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## DecentLevi (Sep 4, 2019)

I wonder if these could be the next new tubes for the Euforia. They're GEC and with top caps. Special adapter would be needed.
GEC ATS25 ATS25N

EDIT: this seems to be the only pair on eBay. 
EDIT 2: They're beam tetrodes which seem be interchangeable for VT60A,
CV1374, CV124 and ZA3496


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## connieflyer

I had both the GEC 6as7 and GEC 6080 and while good, did not think they were the end all tube others have claimed.  They were surpassed by all the El series tubes that I tried and come no where near the El38-El39 series tubes.  I doubt that these tubes would be any better.  The GEC 6as7 had always been hailed as one of the best, but after trying them in Euphoria for awhile, found others that easily surpassed them, and sold them.  The "special" EL38 and the EL39 combo with the El 11 Mesh plates, keep improving the longer I use them, and as confident that this combo is probably going to be the best in terms of total sound, bass strength, clarity of mids, and highs that are complete and never distorted.  Now the task at hand is to sell off my tube collection, lots of El32's 6as7, 6sn7, vt6h8c,Vt52,cv1052 and others some with adapters some NOS others burned in. So much to do, so little time.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> So much to do, so little time.



Never a truer word spoken Don, especially when you're working full time. Just bought a ALO Audio Studio Six and for the first time since starting this hobby, I stopped being too engrossed with tubes but have settle down to listen to music.


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## hypnos1 (Sep 4, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I wonder if these could be the next new tubes for the Euforia. They're GEC and with top caps. Special adapter would be needed.
> GEC ATS25 ATS25N
> 
> EDIT: this seems to be the only pair on eBay.
> ...



Hi DL.

Hmmm...a beam power tube, ostensibly for RF transmission...such a tube not usually regarded as top class for_ audio _use (but there's always a possible exception lol ).

However, its equivalent - the 807/CV124 etc. - doesn't seem to have attracted much attention from the DIY aficionados, and I always like to see such interest before I investigate myself! .... such as what really spiked my interest re. the EL39 and its almost identical Philips (France) versions of the EL38, with the silver painted band. And now, given the EL39's almost magical interaction as a power combo with the differently constructed Mazda/Dario EL38 versions, I've no desire whatsoever to continue the tube quest I'm afraid. And as @connieflyer said, this combo (or 2x EL39s/2x silver skirted EL38s) is _so_ good, it just leaves the likes of the fabled GEC 6AS7G family in its wake...the first especially I'm quite sure even surpassing the exalted WE421A, given it usually isn't regarded as _demonstrably_ better than the GEC/Osram.

So although I'm almost tempted by this nice looking tube, this time I shall leave it to someone else to possibly experiment with lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Just as a reminder for the 'special' EL38s that folks should be looking out for, a photo once more of a tube that for some strange reason, when combined with an EL39 especially, can outperform by quite a margin 2x 39s - a seemingly impossible task!!..............:


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## OctavianH




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## Scutey

OctavianH said:


>


Well it certainly looks the part, as usual it's a case of whether the improvements justify the price  increase.


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## triggsviola

Keep your microfiber cloths handy. That beautiful high gloss finish looks like a fingerprint magnet! I love that they're doing it in grey, not piano black like everybody else.


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## DecentLevi (Sep 6, 2019)

I just snagged 2 of these that came up on eBay from a seller in Spain. It was my saved search query on HiFiShark.com that auto emailed me the notification - recommended to create an account there and sign up for notifications of any tubes you're seeking so you know when they come up. I'll see how 2-4 of these work on my upcoming Glenn amp and if not I'll re-sell my 4x sometime.

Also there's another listing for 1x here but it seems to either have a red band or in bad shape.


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## Mh996

DecentLevi said:


> I just snagged 2 of these that came up on eBay. It was my saved search query on HiFiShark.com that auto emailed me the notification - recommended to create an account there and sign up for notifications of any tubes you're seeking so you know when they come up. I'll see how 2-4 of these work on my upcoming Glenn amp and if not I'll re-sell my 4x sometime.
> 
> Also there's another listing for 1x here but it seems to either have a red band or in bad shape.



I purchased my 2x Phillips EL39s from this same seller and this listing popped up right after my purchase. So if you’re in the market for some 39s keep your eyes peeled. I’ll report on the 2x Phillips 39s in a few days. Shout out to Colin for the great adapters. Enjoying with Visseaux EL3Ns. Now all I need is for some EL11s to show up!


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## DecentLevi

Yup and it says they were tested and look in pristine shape! Also RE Hifishark, it allows you to search from and get notified of listings from global eBay sites and other marketplaces as well so much more helpful than just normal eBay


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## hypnos1 (Sep 6, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I just snagged 2 of these that came up on eBay. It was my saved search query on HiFiShark.com that auto emailed me the notification - recommended to create an account there and sign up for notifications of any tubes you're seeking so you know when they come up. I'll see how 2-4 of these work on my upcoming Glenn amp and if not I'll re-sell my 4x sometime.
> 
> Also there's another listing for 1x here but it seems to either have a red band or in bad shape.



Well done on bagging those EL39s DL...shame about the whiff of treachery however lol! . But at least folks here might be in for a windfall if they don't excel in your new amp!! . Whatever, good luck in your sonic journey...CJ

ps. For folks' info, do NOT even think of paying that kind of money for a _red_ skirted 39, which is basically an old, inferior 4654. It's the one with _silver_ band you should only go for...


----------



## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> I purchased my 2x Phillips EL39s from this same seller and this listing popped up right after my purchase. So if you’re in the market for some 39s keep your eyes peeled. I’ll report on the 2x Phillips 39s in a few days. Shout out to Colin for the great adapters. Enjoying with Visseaux EL3Ns. Now all I need is for some EL11s to show up!



Looking forward to your findings Mh. If those tubes are indeed NOS, be safe in the knowledge that things will get even better as time goes by..._much_ better even lol!!


----------



## Johnnysound

hypnos1 said:


> Looking forward to your findings Mh. If those tubes are indeed NOS, be safe in the knowledge that things will get even better as time goes by..._much_ better even lol!!



Absolutely,  things will get *much* better,  after quite a long period of  time (Lol) !!  Trying to shorten the “burn in” period for my quartet of NOS EL39s,  I pushed them  “to the limit” for more than 80 hours as “hot” power pentodes in my power amp, and yes, that helped perhaps a little bit, but the 39s are tough animals. After (plus than) 120 hours more as powers on Euforia now I think that they are singing beautifully...but also feel that they are capable of even more.  It is not easy to tell when the EL39s have reached full maturity,  but this will certainly happen eventually.... when they cease to “improve” sonically. Anyway, no doubt those are _*extremely*_ durable tubes, specially strapped as triodes.   And my dear friends, please let me know it you find  some  pair available !!


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## OctavianH (Sep 7, 2019)

.


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## UntilThen (Sep 7, 2019)

.


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## Johnnysound (Sep 7, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Well, I have not had the pre-amp connected for a few months now, and seeing all this talk I decided I should give it try again.  This is the first outing with the Special EL 38 El 39 and two Valvo mesh plate EL 11's. I am running it through an Anthem MRX 720, SVS Ultra towers, SVS Ultra Center PSB surrounds and an SVS PC-12 Plus subwoofer.  With this tube combo the pre-amp out is extraordinary, have not heard it like this before, especially the bass.  The Ultra towers have dual 8" bass speakers in them, and they were very active indeed.  Diana Krall was to die for,  was ready to ask her out to dinner, so realistic and the presence was right her in the room. Treble was crystal clear, and there in equal amounts, so the whole sound stage was very believable.  Putting on the test tracks that I use,  the bass actually rattled the pictures on the wall, the signal around 35 Hz was sustained with no distortion, so much so you could feel in in your gut, as well as the floor and furniture.  Neighbors loved it. Tim had to come over to see what I was up to, so had to play a few more tracks at higher than normal, and I could see by his smile, he enjoyed it as well.  Wants me to invite his friend over, to demonstrate the system, his friend has a nice system as well, and Tim thought it would put him in his place, might have to do that.  At lower volume, it was still an engaging display of instrument placement, and levels.  The last combo's I used with the Euforia, were a quad of EL 38's and it was nice but nowhere's near as good as this.  The bass was much better controlled, and mid's were tighter as well.  Glad you folks talked about this subject again, had not thought about the pre amp since last time was not that good. This will be a very nice time filler come winter, when the house is all closed up, and the neighbors are not out and about.



Well, CF, I am _extremely_ pleased that you trusted me and decided to try Euforia as a preamp with your great gear  (I almost got your very same SVS speakers last year).   I have been saying this for a long time,  but nobody heard me:  Euforia is nothing less than a killer preamp with ss amps.   And I mean it, I have dual mono NAD monitor amps rated at 260 watts each (capable of 450 watts peak) and a tube OTL preamp can make them blow your house ceiling, but probably your speakers will blow first (as happened to me).  Having tried a lot of preamps of all types, there is nothing that even comes close to an OTL preamp for driving ss amps, period.  The dominance is absolute, and the ss amp will sound just like the tube preamp, but with the best bass ever (as you noticed).    For me, Euforia configured with EL11/EL39s allowed the deepest, most awesome clean & clear bass from my ss amps, and my Living Sound Audio LSA 2 floorstanding speakers were so deep and dynamic that there was no need to engage my pair of active servo subwoofers.  I have had some very good speakers...but the magic & musical emotion of the (rare) LSA 2s are beyond all of them.  Their small production in the U.S. ceased some  3 years ago, and are no longer available...driven  by  a tube amp is pure, classic sweetness


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## OctavianH (Sep 7, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> You may not know it but linking that site here is a no no.



I had no idea, I just googled for something and saw that some guys have done some research. I'll remove it. For me it seemed a decent opinion. I edited my post, you can edit your quote to remove it if it is somehow forbidden. For me every opinion counts


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## UntilThen

Ask Hypnos1 and he will tell you more about it but best to take it offline. I shall delete my post too.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I had no idea, I just googled for something and saw that some guys have done some research. I'll remove it. For me it seemed a decent opinion. I edited my post, you can edit your quote to remove it if it is somehow forbidden. For me every opinion counts





UntilThen said:


> Ask Hypnos1 and he will tell you more about it but best to take it offline. I shall delete my post too.



Hey guys...you've really aroused my interest lol! Would love to at least know the _subject_ involved...

Having had personal experience of the 'Forum that must not be mentioned' - as you so rightly point out, UT!! - I can only say, OH, that the _opinions_ of many there are far from unbiased, objective, and extensively tested ones I'm afraid. In my own case, their derision at my adapting and using 'unconventional' tubes in our amps - safely and with stellar results - displays such attitudes to perfection. And the fact that _many_ folks indeed have since corroborated my findings for years now just compounds this arrogant small-mindedness even further. I shall say no more...


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## connieflyer

I check in there from time to time, just to see if they have changed at all, and it is always the same.  Over the top "experts" same group of people as before.  I have not found anything of use there.  As  CJ says, if I had listened to them, my use of, and total enjoyment of the EL family of tubes would never have happened.  Stick with CJ, his knowledge of this amp, especially, is above reproach.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hey guys...you've really aroused my interest lol! Would love to at least know the _subject_ involved...
> 
> Having had personal experience of the 'Forum that must not be mentioned' - as you so rightly point out, UT!! - I can only say, OH, that the _opinions_ of many there are far from unbiased, objective, and extensively tested ones I'm afraid. In my own case, their derision at my adapting and using 'unconventional' tubes in our amps - safely and with stellar results - displays such attitudes to perfection. And the fact that _many_ folks indeed have since corroborated my findings for years now just compounds this arrogant small-mindedness even further. I shall say no more...



Well you said what needs to be said. I shall not expand on it. When Octa link that site, I simply told him it's a no no. Take care hypnos1 and connieflyer. Remembering the good old times.

Best
UT.


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Absolutely,  things will get *much* better,  after quite a long period of  time (Lol) !!  Trying to shorten the “burn in” period for my quartet of NOS EL39s,  I pushed them  “to the limit” for more than 80 hours as “hot” power pentodes in my power amp, and yes, that helped perhaps a little bit, but the 39s are tough animals. After (plus than) 120 hours more as powers on Euforia now I think that they are singing beautifully...but also feel that they are capable of even more.  It is not easy to tell when the EL39s have reached full maturity,  but this will certainly happen eventually.... when they cease to “improve” sonically. Anyway, no doubt those are _*extremely*_ durable tubes, specially strapped as triodes.   And my dear friends, please let me know it you find  some  pair available !!



Well, J, all I can say is that I've been using my EL39s exclusively now since May, and _still_ I'm being surprised by new, unexpected aspects of sound delivery, albeit more subtle ones. Obviously, a certain amount of this continued improvement will be down to the upgrades I've made throughout the system, but I'm sure this tube's long 'maturation' will still benefit _all_ systems...a stellar tube indeed lol! 

ps. Am still trying to work out just how I'm gonna get more out of Euforia as preamp with my latest tube combo in place, and realise the new Monitor Audio 200s just aren't going to be man enough to make that bass really shine...very neat and 'small room friendly' though they are. But the rather larger Tannoy xt6f look as if they might be a good compromise, having very good reviews and currently going for half price!...Decisions, decisions...


----------



## connieflyer

Well, it is obvious what you need, so I will give you this link   https://www.whathifi.com/features/11-worlds-most-expensive-loudspeakers   I think because you want something on the smaller size chose the last one! They are ONLY Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – £5m


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, it is obvious what you need, so I will give you this link   https://www.whathifi.com/features/11-worlds-most-expensive-loudspeakers   I think because you want something on the smaller size chose the last one! They are ONLY Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – £5m



Hey cf..._thanks for nothin' lol!!_ ...How on Earth can I now settle for less?  Just try to convince me those modest Tannoys I mentioned are _almost_ a match!!


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## DecentLevi (Sep 7, 2019)

Hi again guys, I wonder if I should be concerned about possible early burn out from my EL39's? I've noticed the top of the glass has developed a fairly dark 'sun-tan' after being my mainstay powers for a month. I initially burned them in with music overnight for about 3 12-hour sessions, without a fan which may have been the cause because these EL39's actually do get fairly hot - albeit still only around 1/2 as much as those fire-hot 6080's. Since then I've been using a small fan on the tubes to reduce heat buildup in hopes to prolong the life.

Photo 1: before use
Photo 2 & 3 are from today, with #3 showing the top up close revealing the change in color.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Hi again guys, I wonder if I should be concerned about possible early burn out from my EL39's? I've noticed the top of the glass has developed a fairly dark 'sun-tan' after being my mainstay powers for a month. I initially burned them in with music overnight for about 3 12-hour sessions, without a fan which may have been the cause because these EL39's actually do get fairly hot - albeit still only around 1/2 as much as those fire-hot 6080's. Since then I've been using a small fan on the tubes to reduce heat buildup in hopes to prolong the life.
> Hi DL,
> Some tubes develop blotches at the top of the glass - perhaps it is called anode boil-off; not sure about this. But these things only indicate that the tube is used and does not preclude continuing to use it for a long time.
> Photo 1: before use
> Photo 2 & 3 are from today, with #3 showing the top up close revealing the change in color.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hi again guys, I wonder if I should be concerned about possible early burn out from my EL39's? I've noticed the top of the glass has developed a fairly dark 'sun-tan' after being my mainstay powers for a month. I initially burned them in with music overnight for about 3 12-hour sessions, without a fan which may have been the cause because these EL39's actually do get fairly hot - albeit still only around 1/2 as much as those fire-hot 6080's. Since then I've been using a small fan on the tubes to reduce heat buildup in hopes to prolong the life.
> 
> Photo 1: before use
> Photo 2 & 3 are from today, with #3 showing the top up close revealing the change in color.



Must admit DL, colour change usually happens with the getter flashing...from silver to brown as residual gases are extinguished. I myself have never had a tube that's clear up top change colour. But as @mordy says, perhaps it's just some of the anode coating burning off. I doubt it's use overload, as @Johnnysound has been cooking his own 39s at levels *way* beyond Euforia's demand lol!  And I myself have put far more hours on mine than you have on yours! Mind you, *twelve* hour sessions are not normally recommended for tubes, although I myself have done so in the past...the usual - as recommended by F-A - is 5 to 8 hrs, with at least an hour cool off in between.

I'm also curious as to why you're using ferrite chokes on the anode wire...I myself have never had any issue whatsoever, even with the teflon tubing actually touching the transformer!...???...


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## DecentLevi

The ferrite chokes became necessary to prevent loud hum with some of the multi EL combos with my 6x externally heated power combos and I just keep them on there in case. It doesn't take anything away. In recent months I've been having world class results and splendid synergy with either 2x EL39 + 2x Bendix 6080 + 2x Tung Sol 6BL7 (or) EL39 + 4x EL32 as powers with either Valvo EL11 or RCA 6N7 as drivers.


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## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> The ferrite chokes became necessary to prevent loud hum with some of the multi EL combos with my 6x externally heated power combos and I just keep them on there in case. It doesn't take anything away. In recent months I've been having world class results and splendid synergy with either 2x EL39 + 2x Bendix 6080 + 2x Tung Sol 6BL7 (or) EL39 + 4x EL32 as powers with either Valvo EL11 or RCA 6N7 as drivers.



Gotta say, DL this is interesting...mixing such divergent tubes as a set of powers.  One wonders if the mu 2 tube can be noticed over it's rack mate with an mu of 15...?

Wish I could hear it


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 8, 2019)

Yup it's a very unlikely tube combo and one I would never have dreamt up, save for months and hundreds of pairings going through every mathematically possible tube combination to find which have the best sounding synergy. This combination is sublime, infinite, extraordinary with hard hitting bass, resolving, clear, detailed, visceral, expansive and just the most coherent, ultra performer I have yet to hear in all my years at any home hi-fi setup. Thrills & chills, and more even yet to come as I eventually upgrade my entire chain with even better headphones, DDC (domain digital converter AKA 'decrapifier'), DAC and amp.

PS - what is "mu", is that the gain factor of a tube? Also I didn't post a photo as to not derail the thread much with multi-combos.


----------



## JazzVinyl

DecentLevi said:


> Yup it's a very unlikely tube combo and one I would never have dreamt up, save for months and hundreds of pairings going through every mathematically possible tube combination to find which have the best sounding synergy. This combination is sublime, infinite, extraordinary with hard hitting bass, resolving, clear, detailed, visceral, expansive and just the most coherent, ultra performer I have yet to hear in all my years at any home hi-fi setup. Thrills & chills, and more even yet to come as I eventually upgrade my entire chain with even better headphones, DDC (domain digital converter AKA 'decrapifier'), DAC and amp.
> 
> PS - what is "mu", is that the gain factor of a tube? Also I didn't post a photo as to not derail the thread much with multi-combos.



Yes, in tube spec sheets the 'mu' is the amplification factor.  6080 = 2 and the 6BL7 has a whopping mu of 15!!

Are you sure it's "visceral, expansive and just the most coherent, ultra performer you have yet to hear"?

LOL

Sorry, you do go on and on in sound description.  Kind of fun.  Let me ask this...how long to you spend with a combo before changing?  Do you write down your 'visceral level' for each combo in a speadsheet or something?


----------



## mordy

I wonder if there is a mathematical formula to figure out the amplification factor (mu) when you mix tubes of different mu - have never found the answer to this question.
If you have one pair of 6BX7 the mu is 10. If you have 4 x 6BX7, does the multiplication factor remain the same?
What happens with the mu if you mix 6BL7 (mu 15) and 6BX7? 
Haven't been able to find the answers to these questions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

mordy said:


> I wonder if there is a mathematical formula to figure out the amplification factor (mu) when you mix tubes of different mu - have never found the answer to this question.
> If you have one pair of 6BX7 the mu is 10. If you have 4 x 6BX7, does the multiplication factor remain the same?
> What happens with the mu if you mix 6BL7 (mu 15) and 6BX7?
> Haven't been able to find the answers to these questions.



It's my understanding that the mu remains the same in the power position of an cathode follower like the Euphoria.

IE if you ran 2x 6AS7G's per side, the mu stays at 2 buy you have doubled the current avail for moving the P driver cone.

So don't know how to relate that to mixing wildly different mu tubes per side.  Guess I assumed that in power position on a cathode follower amp, that mu does not change, that the one with highest mu factor would dominate the sound?  But you are adding drive current (or power)...


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 9, 2019)

After many, many trials I always found 6BL7 to have the best synergy with 1-2 sets of 6080 tubes (as an externally heated power with combo), then add in the EL39's and everything really opens up and shines brilliantly. Do you folks factor in Mu when rolling different powers on the Glenn amps? I certainly never have and I recommend to disregard the Mu factor and you just might find your best combo ever. The above two mentioned combos are my mainstay tried and true for at least 6-8 weeks and after recently A/B-ing with my former favorite multi-combos they win by a great margin, even over combos including former holy grail tube classes.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> *The ferrite chokes became necessary to prevent loud hum with some of the multi EL combos with my 6x externally heated power combos *and I just keep them on there in case. It doesn't take anything away. In recent months I've been having world class results and splendid synergy with either 2x EL39 + 2x Bendix 6080 + 2x Tung Sol 6BL7 (or) EL39 + 4x EL32 as powers with either Valvo EL11 or RCA 6N7 as drivers.



OK DL...let's stop here right now. Doesn't this give a clue as to the ill-advisedness of this kind of multi combo in an amp not designed for such use, unlike some of Glenn's? ...This might well also explain the experience of discoloration in one of your EL39s. 

I must stress to folks that Feliks-Audio will *NOT* countenance such use of their amps, and will void the warranty. I also do *NOT* advise such use, despite the use of an external power supply. And as F-A's voice here on the thread that I personally started, I ask that any further discussion on this practice be taken to another new thread and not continued here.


----------



## UntilThen

DL, I hope you will not bring such extreme tube rolling over to Glenn's thread. In fact no thread will welcome you if this is what you call -

_This combination is sublime, infinite, extraordinary with hard hitting bass, resolving, clear, detailed, visceral, expansive and just the most coherent, ultra performer I have yet to hear in all my years at any home hi-fi setup. 
_
from a combination of EL39 + 6BL7 + 6080 and using external power supply. This is what I call tube rolling gone off the rails.


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## DecentLevi

No big deal, I won't write about my multi-combos on the Euforia here. I'm moving towards another amp after a bit anyway. If anyone asks me about it I can reply by PM. I was only posting about my experiences which for me have been found without issue over 1 year - but not specifically recommending it, as setting it up takes quite some special steps and is not exactly in spec for the amp. Nevertheless I'm still super impressed with what the Euforia can do, even with setups that it wasn't designed for.

PS - the external heat concept wasn't even my idea, and UT I've seen you do some experimental stuff too recently.


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> PS - the external heat concept wasn't even my idea, and UT I've seen you do some experimental stuff too recently.



What I did was purely to get an idea of how EL11 and EL12 spez sound like before I commit to a custom build from Glenn. Go back to the thread and see my warning to others that I do not endorsed this as a common practice.

Knowing you, I have explicitly state that, in case you think I endorsed it.

If you like a certain combination of tubes, get it custom build but no amp builder will build you an amp using EL39 + 6BL7 + 6080 and what nots.


----------



## DecentLevi

You're right UT I haven't had a chance to catch up on the 'other' thread except for browsing the photos. Thanks for your reasonable response and I really enjoyed some of your contributions over there too. And I really don't think I will have any need at all for experimental tube rolling with the new one.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> DL, I hope you will not bring such extreme tube rolling over to Glenn's thread. In fact no thread will welcome you if this is what you call -
> 
> _This combination is sublime, infinite, extraordinary with hard hitting bass, resolving, clear, detailed, visceral, expansive and just the most coherent, ultra performer I have yet to hear in all my years at any home hi-fi setup.
> _
> from a combination of EL39 + 6BL7 + 6080 and using external power supply. This is what I call tube rolling gone off the rails.



WELL SAID UT!


----------



## UntilThen

DecentLevi said:


> You're right UT I haven't had a chance to catch up on the 'other' thread except for browsing the photos. Thanks for your reasonable response and I really enjoyed some of your contributions over there too. And I really don't think I will have any need at all for experimental tube rolling with the new one.



No problem DL. I'm not an unreasonable man. Look forward to the new custom amp. You'll enjoy it without resorting to such combination.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> WELL SAID UT!



Likewise Hypnos1. Sometimes we need to voice out what needs to be said. I think it's all good now. Peace will return to the land and sweet music will flow. Enjoy your music.


----------



## connieflyer

Have to agree with Cj and UT, these multiple tube adapters have been talked about in the past, and have always been a topic that had to be stopped.  The users of these adapters have been told in the past not to post about them, and yet they feel obliged to continue their false rhetoric time and time again. CJ set up this thread and was very specific about not talking about these.  It is not hard to follow the rules, and if you think they should be changed, then fine, ask the moderator first, if it would be alright.  But especially, the fact the FA does not sanction these adapters and will remove the warranty has to show how much they dislike this.If you are to be a responsible member of this thread, the rules are not hard to obey. 
In other news, this on facebook announcement  Feliks Audio
September 7 at 5:29 PM ·

For our American fans, the Rocky Mountains Audio Fest is first opportunity to see and hear the new Anniversary Euforia at our distributor’s stand Upscale Audio   https://www.facebook.com/feliksaudio/


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## hypnos1 (Sep 9, 2019)

Yes indeed @UntilThen and @connieflyer ...may peace and happiness flow freely!  And as far as I'm concerned, if one is lucky enough to bag a pair of EL39s especially, Euforia will deliver a sound to satisfy the most demanding of tastes lol! 
And, cf, as for the special Anniversary Edition Euforia being showcased at the RMAF, it will be very interesting to see reaction to it there. And hopefully more nice photos will emerge ...(especially of the gloss 'Space Grey' finish, which seems evident on the front panel, but the case looks more _black_ to my eyes lol??!! ). Whatever, I do think it looks real _classy...
_
ps. Talking of EL39s, have you been able to try yours yet @WithGumption ? Hope all is OK...


----------



## connieflyer

I agree, the only pictures that I have seen of the anniversary app all look black to me. Of course that may just be the way that they captured the photo and did not make it true to the colors for whatever reason. I am still hoping that they will get the review amplifier to you so we can get a good comparison between the anniversary app and the Euforia. They are asking a lot of money for the new amplifier and unless it is going to be substantially better, 30 to 35% over the cost of our amp it's kind of stretching it to my way of thinking. I will email the cops again and ask him about your demo. He had told me that you were going to get one so I would definitely like to see you have one we can get an honest review and comparison. And if it is indeed much better I'll buy one


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I agree, the only pictures that I have seen of the anniversary app all look black to me. Of course that may just be the way that they captured the photo and did not make it true to the colors for whatever reason. I am still hoping that they will get the review amplifier to you so we can get a good comparison between the anniversary app and the Euforia. They are asking a lot of money for the new amplifier and unless it is going to be substantially better, 30 to 35% over the cost of our amp it's kind of stretching it to my way of thinking. I will email the cops again and ask him about your demo. He had told me that you were going to get one so I would definitely like to see you have one we can get an honest review and comparison. And if it is indeed much better I'll buy one



Yo cf, it would indeed be great if I can demo one...fingers crossed! Those ClarityCaps capacitors and Constant Current Source alone sound very interesting indeed...not to mention an even better transformer - the latter 2 especially, given the importance of power supply in all amps lol!  I'd even be prepared to pay extra and ask for a custom amp with my favourite Neotech UP-OCC _silver_ wire in addition to the copper (won't use anything else these days!), if the amp can win over my wallet lol!! ...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Another little teaser.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> OK DL...let's stop here right now. Doesn't this give a clue as to the ill-advisedness of this kind of multi combo in an amp not designed for such use, unlike some of Glenn's? ...This might well also explain the experience of discoloration in one of your EL39s.
> 
> I must stress to folks that Feliks-Audio will *NOT* countenance such use of their amps, and will void the warranty. I also do *NOT* advise such use, despite the use of an external power supply. And as F-A's voice here on the thread that I personally started, I ask that any further discussion on this practice be taken to another new thread and not continued here.



Clarifying question for us relative newcomers: Does the use of any adapter (EG - for an EL type tube) void the warranty?


----------



## mordy

All EL tubes require adapters in the Euforia/Elise amps. Nobody has reported problems running pairs or quads of these tubes, but I am not sure if they are officially sanctioned by Feliks Audio.
I don’t think the adapters per se is the problem, but if somebody runs other combinations that exceed the current capacity of the amp there  may be reasons for FA disapproval.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I think FA wishes folks would run the specified tubes and be happy with them.  I have heard Lukanz say: "the default tubes also sound good".  Probably drives them batty to watch the rolling go so buck wild.


----------



## UntilThen

The problem is the combination of EL39 + 6BL7 + 6080. Those tubes have very different electrical specs. Ask any major tube amp builders if they would consider using this combination in their top of the line tube amps and they will look at you funny !


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 10, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> The problem is the combination of EL39 + 6BL7 + 6080. Those tubes have very different electrical specs. Ask any major tube amp builders if they would consider using this combination in their top of the line tube amps and they will look at you funny !



Precisely UT...the problem's not the _straightforward_ use of 'alternative' tubes I have experimented (exhaustively!) with and found - along with many others - to be safe as well as at least equal in performance to some of the best conventional tubes...and often superior lol!  And as I explain to LW below, it's only the extreme/excessive use of _multiple_ tube setups that will definitely void any warranty...as it would with _any_ other maker if not in the design. And for sure you're also certainly right in that _no-one_ would even consider making an amp with such diverse combinations!!



LoryWiv said:


> Clarifying question for us relative newcomers: Does the use of any adapter (EG - for an EL type tube) void the warranty?



Hi LW.

There's a world of difference between using _single_ adapters and _multi_ ones in an amp not specifically designed for such use. All the 'alternative' tubes I have adapted for years now have been extensively tested, not only by myself but many other users also.... and none more so than the EL family of tubes. And although F-A can't _officially_ endorse their use, Lukasz has confirmed to me that he isn't now at all _un_happy with them, even though they did find the bench readings 'unusual' lol! And he agreed that they are obviously _safe_ to use, given how long I especially have used them without anything untoward whatsoever, in either Elise or Euforia....further reinforced by my testing of every single internal component's operating temperature, showing that they ran at *10 deg C* (*50 F*) _cooler_ than with stock tubes, and a section immediately below the trafo at _*20*_* deg C (68 F*) cooler!!

Therefore, the use of such tubes will not, of itself, cause any warranty-voiding damage. Naturally - as with *any* tube - there's always the _slight_ possibility of it 'blowing'/arcing, but hopefully our amps' protective circuitry should be able to prevent major damage, and cannot be blamed upon it being an 'alternative' tube. With regard to the adapter itself, although the occasional Chinese one has failed (which Mrsx has always happily replaced), I've yet to hear of it causing any damage to the amp. And I would recommend that if ever anyone has the slightest doubt about an adapter's functioning, it is reported to the maker and replaced...assuming all the usual tests have been made to eliminate any other cause first...ie. swapping adapters/tubes; checking the tube's pins are shiny clean; tubes and adapters are seated properly; all cable connections in the system are secure/clean, including the power supply connector!...etc.

And so, in short, so long as one hasn't gone more extreme than this; taken the usual care in using the amp, and with tubes that I myself have proved to be safe, there's no reason why the warranty should be voided, if the worst should happen...they can (usually) soon determine the actual cause of any problem!  So fear not, mes amis! ...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Precisely UT...the problem's not the _straightforward_ use of 'alternative' tubes I have experimented (exhaustively!) with and found - along with many others - to be safe as well as at least equal in performance to some of the best conventional tubes...and often superior lol!  And as I explain to LW below, it's only the extreme/excessive use of _multiple_ tube setups that will definitely void any warranty...as it would with _any_ other maker. And for sure you're also certainly right in that _no-one_ would even consider making an amp with such diverse combinations!!



I'm with you fully. The difference is you know what you are doing while other copycats will just try to outdo you by combining any type of tubes under the sun and then proclaim it's end of the world combination. Sad I know. 

You just enjoy your discovery because I know you're getting excellent sonics there.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I'm with you fully. The difference is you know what you are doing while other copycats will just try to outdo you by combining any type of tubes under the sun and then proclaim it's end of the world combination. Sad I know.
> 
> You just enjoy your discovery because I know you're getting excellent sonics there.



Thanks for your kind words UT...it's been a long, and sometimes _arduous_ journey with Elise and Euforia, but it's nice to know a good few folks have found enjoyment from the fruits of the efforts, along with the undoubted excellent results still from more 'conventional' fare lol!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your kind words UT...it's been a long, and sometimes _arduous_ journey with Elise and Euforia, but it's nice to know a good few folks have found enjoyment from the fruits of the efforts, along with the undoubted excellent results still from more 'conventional' fare lol!



It's like a life long journey. Look how far we've come. I've no doubt we are both enjoying the best in quality sound. For me there is still one more amp that I will be getting from Glenn and that will be a transformer coupled amp using EL11 driving EL12 spez using a tube rectifier. Glenn reckons it will output 10 watts in strapped triode mode. 

After this I'll retire or I'll upset the wife too much.


----------



## UntilThen

In life I have few regrets but one of them is that pct isn't with us anymore. There has never been a closer bond than the 4 of us together. That I will never forget and it's something I'll take with me when I retire from this hobby.


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 29, 2019)

It would also be hard for FFA to recommend the use of el tubes as they are in short supply. Where as the 6sn7's are some of the most common tubes out there. They are also very good tubes.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 12, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> It would also be hard for FFA 2 recommend the use of el tubes as they are in short supply. Where are the 6s and 7 and 6 a S7 are some of the most common tubes out there. They are also very good tubes.



Not to mention they designed their amp to use 6SN7 as drivers and 6AS7 or eqiv as the powers.  Be kind of dumb to enforce use of EL tubes that don't even fit the sockets provided...


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> It's like a life long journey. Look how far we've come. I've no doubt we are both enjoying the best in quality sound. For me there is still one more amp that I will be getting from Glenn and that will be a transformer coupled amp using EL11 driving EL12 spez using a tube rectifier. Glenn reckons it will output 10 watts in strapped triode mode.
> 
> After this I'll retire or I'll upset the wife too much.



An SET using the EL11 and EL12 Spezial, UT? Given that Glenn is using an obligatory high quality output transformer, that should be quite some amp!  And the fact you're specifying *EL* tubes shows your high regard for them lol. Plus, if you'd never spied that pretty tube with a red skirt - the EL3N, many of us would never have experienced the superior performance of this family of tubes. And the fact that Glenn himself was so impressed with this tube - as with F-A's amps, at first obviously in a circuit not specifically designed for it! (please note, @JazzVinyl) - that he then designed an amp just for it...the rest is history.

And 10W output? Could perhaps be enough to drive sensitive speakers even? I wish you all the very best with it.

And as for JV's loaded statement re. using non configured-for tubes in F-A's amps, aren't there some being used with adapters in Glenn's amps sometimes that haven't been specifically designed for?...



UntilThen said:


> In life I have few regrets but one of them is that pct isn't with us anymore. There has never been a closer bond than the 4 of us together. That I will never forget and it's something I'll take with me when I retire from this hobby.



Ditto, UT. But retire from this hobby?...not 'til you've gained your wings, methinks!! ...CHEERS!...CJ



connieflyer said:


> It would also be hard for FFA 2 recommend the use of el tubes as they are in short supply. Where are the 6s and 7 and 6 a S7 are some of the most common tubes out there. They are also very good tubes.



Precisely cf. And you're spot on with the fact that a 'very good sound' can indeed - and _has_ been - made even better lol!  And I shall repeat that Lukasz himself has *never* criticised me for going 'off piste'...the opposite in fact!  I can only (hopefully) assume JazzVinyl was referring to the _extreme/multi_ tube rolling in his tirade...nothing else has any true validity, given F-A's non-condemnation of my experiments. And as for his 'enforcing' comment...where on Earth does _that_ come from??! We have only ever _suggested_ to like-minded trailblazers that they might be interested in trying something new/different...once it's been proven to be safe. It has _never_ been made compulsory lol! ...???...Personal choice reigns as much here as anywhere else, thank goodness, and there's room for ALL choices...made all the wider, and more interesting, by the fact that in Euforia and Elise, F-A have made some very flexible, versatile and forgiving amps...so, many thanks to all at F-A!!


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 10, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> There's a world of difference between using _single_ adapters and _multi_ ones in an amp not specifically designed for such use. All the 'alternative' tubes I have adapted for years now have been extensively tested, not only by myself but many other users also.... and none more so than the EL family of tubes. And although F-A can't _officially_ endorse their use, Lukasz has confirmed to me that he isn't now at all _un_happy with them, even though they did find the bench readings 'unusual' lol! And he agreed that they are obviously _safe_ to use, given how long I especially have used them without anything untoward whatsoever, in either Elise or Euforia....further reinforced by my testing of every single internal component's operating temperature, showing that they ran at *10 deg C* (*50 F*) _cooler_ than with stock tubes, and a section immediately below the trafo at _*20*_* deg C (68 F*) cooler!!
> 
> ...


@hypnos1 that is very well said and reasonable, thank you for sharing your experience and being a "voice of reason." My journey with Elise now has included replacing the stock powers with NOS 1963 Tung Sol 7236, and I am stunned by the magnitude of difference from stock (mostly very favorable). Specifically, the TS 7236 brought marked improvement in clarity and detail retrieval, less “flubby” and slightly more prominent bass, midrange grain gone, nice tone and timbre. The most impressive effect was was a wider soundstage which I really enjoy, also greater instrument separation and impressive spatial placement.

Next, I want to roll in NOS 6SN7 drivers with goal of adding a touch more euphony and warmth, as surprisingly the NOS Tug Sols produce great improvements but make the amp a bit too clinical / “solid state” sounding. Within my modest budget I’ve narrowed it down to RCA late 40's-50's grey glass 6SN7 or VT-231 (a bit pricer) or same vintage Sylvania 6SN7 (some report them as too bright though). With the aim of not diminishing the improvements obtained with the NOS 7236 Tung Sol power tubes but rather complementing them a touch of warmth and tube feel, a dollop more bass extension and stage, suggestions are welcomed!


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 12, 2019)

It certainly is indeed surprising just how much better the EL39 performs in our amps compared to the EL38...especially given how good the latter already sounds lol! But the Philips (France) silver banded EL38 versions do look quite a bit different to the later _clear_ glass Mullards (and much more like the EL39), so I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised at the different factories' sound...as with different versions of the 6AS7G/6080 for example...


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> @hypnos1 that is very well said and reasonable, thank you for sharing your experience and being a "voice of reason." My journey with Elise now has included replacing the stock powers with NOS 1963 Tung Sol 7236, and I am stunned by the magnitude of difference from stock (mostly very favorable). Specifically, the TS 7236 brought marked improvement in clarity and detail retrieval, less “flubby” and slightly more prominent bass, midrange grain gone, nice tone and timbre. The most impressive effect was was a wider soundstage which I really enjoy, also greater instrument separation and impressive spatial placement.
> 
> Next, I want to roll in NOS 6SN7 drivers with goal of adding a touch more euphony and warmth, as surprisingly the NOS Tug Sols produce great improvements but make the amp a bit too clinical / “solid state” sounding. Within my modest budget I’ve narrowed it down to RCA late 40's-50's grey glass 6SN7 or VT-231 (a bit pricer) or same vintage Sylvania 6SN7 (some report them as too bright though). With the aim of not diminishing the improvements obtained with the NOS 7236 Tung Sol power tubes but rather complementing them a touch of warmth and tube feel, a dollop more bass extension and stage, suggestions are welcomed!



Hi LW...of the 'conventional' tubes, those grey glass RCAs should certainly be a good choice, with the VT231 giving plenty of bass. And yes, the Sylvanias might well not provide what you're looking for alas, even though the 'chrome dome' versions (and the similar 7N7, that needs an adapter but is usually a good bit cheaper) are extremely good! Another good 6SN7 to look out for is the _black_ glass National Union, but these seem to be few and far between.

@ZRW0 was recently selling off his tube collection, so perhaps he might still have some he can recommend? Just PM him...@connieflyer is apparently looking to reduce his stock of tubes, and I'm sure he also wouldn't mind a PM from you. GOOD LUCK in your tube hunting...patience usually brings results - _eventually!!...CJ_


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> @ZRW0 was recently selling off his tube collection, so perhaps he might still have some he can recommend?



Hello guys,

Thanks CJ to have mentioned me, but the last tubes of my collection were sold yesterday.

Now, and to my surprise (but I only tried to sell it in and nearby my town), the thing I still have to sell is the Euforia itself with its stock tubes (PsVane CV181 "Gold" MK2 as drivers).
If one is interested, please PM me.

Cheers,

Erwan.

PS: On my new amp, I already felt in love with EL37 as powers (quite difficult to find as quartet, may be even worse than finding EL39), and I'm now quite impressed with nowadays quite affordable 7581A production tubes from TungSol Russia : huge headroom, huge dynamics, many many details.... 
Did anyone ever tried those last ones on the Euforia ? (require adapters)


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the nod, CJ.  I still have some very good 6sn7's left.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW...of the 'conventional' tubes, those grey glass RCAs should certainly be a good choice, with the VT231 giving plenty of bass. And yes, the Sylvanias might well not provide what you're looking for alas, even though the 'chrome dome' versions (and the similar 7N7, that needs an adapter but is usually a good bit cheaper) are extremely good! Another good 6SN7 to look out for is the _black_ glass National Union, but these seem to be few and far between.
> 
> @ZRW0 was recently selling off his tube collection, so perhaps he might still have some he can recommend? Just PM him...@connieflyer is apparently looking to reduce his stock of tubes, and I'm sure he also wouldn't mind a PM from you. GOOD LUCK in your tube hunting...patience usually brings results - _eventually!!...CJ_


Thank you @hypnos1 ...I will PM @connieflyer . Still a bit torn as to best choice, I'd settled on RCA VT-231 but ran across a comment that they are veiled....I know, may just need to try for myself with my gear. Again, thanks to the regulars on this forum, it is truly a pleasure to chat with like-minded enthusiasts who share my passion for musical bliss and have far, far more experience with how to get there!


----------



## LoryWiv

@connieflyer I tried to PM you but the site indicated I could not initiate a PM with you....perhaps some restrictions in place to keep out the rif raf?. Below is what I intended to say, feel free to PM me the response so we don't take the thread into where other participants may not be interested. Thankks so much!

Hey, hope you are well. Thanks for the note in the Euforia thread that you still have some 6SN7's to part with. I am a relatively new Elise owner, rolled Tung Sol 7236's into the power sockets and love the increased stage width, grain-free clarity and detail. Overall sound impact is much truer but a bit clinical / solid state sounding so, next looking for drivers that'll keep the detail / stage and clarity but add a smidge more warmth / bass without veil or being "gooey." I know, seeking musicality without too much coloration can be a bear, so I guess I'm a bear hunter.

Thinking RCA-VT-231's but anything you'd like to suggest that you want to sell?

Thanks again, really enjoy the FA forums where I've learned a lot, certainly including your posts.
LW


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed a few posts that were getting too personal from the thread. Let's please keep the discussion on the music and the gear, rather than one another. Thank you to everyone who helped keep things on-track. We appreciate it.


----------



## hypnos1

Right then @Johnnysound , not being able (or too chicken!) to try getting away with some nice tower speakers, like yours and @connieflyer 's, I have in fact gone for a pair of Tannoy xt6fs, and just hope they're as good as the reviews lol!  At least they should do much more justice to the tremendous bass of my EL39/'special' Mazda EL38 power combo than my Dynaudio Focus 110s...(did I mention an also C3g-beating treble sparkle(!), now they have even more hours on them?! Who would have thought _power_ tubes could do such a thing, when conventional wisdom says it's the _drivers_ that determine most of the sonic characteristics? My eyes - and ears - have truly been opened..._*wide!!*_ . Mind you, it could also be in part that they are in fact showcasing the mesh-plate EL11s as being even more special than previously thought? Whatever, I'm hoping this combo will make my new speakers sing beautifully, just like my Empyreans...if in a rather different way, of course...(can't afford the 30K+ electrostatics you said I might need to match certain qualities of the Mezes lol! ). 

ps. Perhaps adding some Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires to the speaker cables might just help them along a bit?! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 12, 2019)

AxelCloris said:


> We've removed a few posts that were getting too personal from the thread. Let's please keep the discussion on the music and the gear, rather than one another. Thank you to everyone who helped keep things on-track. We appreciate it.



Fully understood, AxelCloris...as starter of this, and other Feliks-Audio threads - my very first being closed due to a renegade member, since banned - sometimes it's difficult to maintain an 'even keel' in the face of 'disruptive winds' - edit...nay, _provocation_ lol. But thankfully, the majority of members here - as in other head-fi threads - do indeed manage to 'keep things on track'. Long may it continue....


----------



## hypnos1

hypnos1 said:


> Fully understood, AxelCloris...as starter of this, and other Feliks-Audio threads - my very first being closed due to a renegade member, since banned - sometimes it's difficult to maintain an 'even keel' in the face of 'disruptive winds' - edit...nay, _provocation_ lol. But thankfully, the majority of members here - as in other head-fi threads - do indeed manage to 'keep things on track'. Long may it continue....



ps. Will PM you if I may in order to give you all the facts surrounding recent occurrences...


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> @hypnos1 that is very well said and reasonable, thank you for sharing your experience and being a "voice of reason." My journey with Elise now has included replacing the stock powers with NOS 1963 Tung Sol 7236, and I am stunned by the magnitude of difference from stock (mostly very favorable). Specifically, the TS 7236 brought marked improvement in clarity and detail retrieval, less “flubby” and slightly more prominent bass, midrange grain gone, nice tone and timbre. The most impressive effect was was a wider soundstage which I really enjoy, also greater instrument separation and impressive spatial placement.
> 
> Next, I want to roll in NOS 6SN7 drivers with goal of adding a touch more euphony and warmth, as surprisingly the NOS Tug Sols produce great improvements but make the amp a bit too clinical / “solid state” sounding. Within my modest budget I’ve narrowed it down to RCA late 40's-50's grey glass 6SN7 or VT-231 (a bit pricer) or same vintage Sylvania 6SN7 (some report them as too bright though). With the aim of not diminishing the improvements obtained with the NOS 7236 Tung Sol power tubes but rather complementing them a touch of warmth and tube feel, a dollop more bass extension and stage, suggestions are welcomed!


Hi LW, 
I have a suggestion for you for a 6SN7 tube that may be a good match for the TS7236. It is an inexpensive garden variety RCA 6SN7GTB from the 60's. I have written about it before as one of the unsung heroes but as far as I know nobody has corroborated my findings yet.
This 60's tube has red RCA print and a horizontal heater wire above the top mica:







It has flat ladder (ribbed) plates. There are other look alike RCA versions of this tube and the trouble is that the little horizontal heater wire many times isn't visible on the seller's photos. If in doubt, you have to ask the seller.
Just took a quick look - I think I found one with the little heater wire, but as said, you have to ask.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-USA-6S...6sAAOSwWV1dcuAp:sc:USPSFirstClass!10952!US!-1
Here is another one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-6SN7GT...176216?hash=item1cd2b538d8:g:Cq0AAOSwmBZc-RcC




IMHO worth a try.....and by careful shopping they should not cost too much.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Hi LW,
> I have a suggestion for you for a 6SN7 tube that may be a good match for the TS7236. It is an inexpensive garden variety RCA 6SN7GTB from the 60's. I have written about it before as one of the unsung heroes but as far as I know nobody has corroborated my findings yet.
> This 60's tube has red RCA print and a horizontal heater wire above the top mica:
> 
> ...



Thank you @mordy ... I'm running down a few options for RCA 6SN7 GT's and will put this on the list, inquire if top heater coil present. This community is really great, and it's sharing impressions and benefiting from the experience of others that makes the journey more fun. Thanks again!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi Gents, I’m having a bit of trouble with my Euforia, the headphone jack cuts out. When fully inserted, I don’t get the let channel, withdraw, the right. It doesn’t appear to be a difficult repair, but I’d hate to screw up. I haven’t heard back from the folks at Feliks yet and was wondering if any of you might have a recommendation, thanks!


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## hypnos1

Hi guys.

In light of recent unfortunate events prompting the need for moderator intervention, and the fact we've been here before (in Elise threads also), as 'custodian' here wink any further attempt at deliberate provocation will be reported immediately by me to the mods, as advised.

As also mentioned before, I and others have worked long and hard to develop and maintain a friendly, welcoming and helpful community, appreciated by many. I trust things will continue to move along in this enviable spirit with room for all views that keep with this spirit and do not knowingly steer matters towards disruption....CHEERS!...and HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hi Gents, I’m having a bit of trouble with my Euforia, the headphone jack cuts out. When fully inserted, I don’t get the let channel, withdraw, the right. It doesn’t appear to be a difficult repair, but I’d hate to screw up. I haven’t heard back from the folks at Feliks yet and was wondering if any of you might have a recommendation, thanks!



Hi W. Have you checked with another hp jack to confirm this isn't a possible cause, even though probably not? Strange you haven't heard back from F-A yet...did you buy direct from them, UpscaleAudio/other outlet or privately? Whatever, your amp should still be under warranty, and if from UA/other they would be first call to have it repaired. 

Otherwise, I would get in touch with F-A once again and ask if they want it returned for repair, given they should be liable for return costs, or if they would sanction repair by a local repairer at their cost, if reasonable.

I do hope you get a resolution to this annoying problem without too much further delay...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Hypnos1, you have my full support even though I don’t frequent this thread anymore.

I’m sure the community will appreciate your work, especially the laborious hours of trials you put in. Many of these tubes would not have been adopted had it not been for you. 

Continue what you are doing and no one should be criticising you. They should instead be thanking you !

Sincerely,
UT


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## hypnos1 (Sep 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Hi Hypnos1, you have my full support even though I don’t frequent this thread anymore.
> 
> I’m sure the community will appreciate your work, especially the laborious hours of trials you put in. Many of these tubes would not have been adopted had it not been for you.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your kind words and support Matt... you were one of those who also contributed greatly to both Elise and Euforia threads, and continue to do so on yet another.

And good luck with your latest venture...I hope your choice of the EL11/EL12 Spezial combo (with output trafo) delivers supreme performance. I can't really see otherwise, given the wonderful results we've had in amps not even specifically configured for these tubes lol!  And you will always be able to tweak the sound to suit via your tube rectifier which, in the case of an SET amp anyway, is probably a good idea!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your kind words and support Matt... you were one of those who also contributed greatly to both Elise and Euforia threads, and continue to do so on yet another.
> 
> And good luck with your latest venture...I hope your choice of the EL11/EL12 Spezial combo (with output trafo) delivers supreme performance. I can't really see otherwise, given the wonderful results we've had in amps not even specifically configured for these tubes lol!  And you will always be able tweak the sound to suit via your tube rectifier which, in the case of an SET amp anyway, is probably a good idea!



My pleasure Colin. When the EL11 / EL12 Spez SET amp is built, there's only 2 persons I'll acknowledge. You for the modern day discovery of these tubes and adapting it for suitable use - that's pioneering work - very important !!! ..... and Glenn for making the amp. For as long as I have 'Berlin' (nickname for EL11/EL12 Spez amp), I'll remember both of you and I know it will sound great. In fact it will be a classic in the years to come.

Well I have to wait for the amp to be made. Glenn is rather busy these days and it's understandable and his health isn't very good but he's been like a friend to me. I can't thank him enough. However, you will be notified once it's build and I'll make my acknowledgement publicly. 

Take care,
UT


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## connieflyer

Good Morning CJ, just wanted to give you the credit you deserve on this thread and others. You have been a guiding light for those of us interested in the higher performance of our amps.  If I have caused you grief, I apologize to you personly, and if the moderators want to ban me, not a problem our friendship is not based on this internet thread.  Hopefully you will have better control of this in the future, so you do not get any more grief.  Take good care of yourself. CF


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## teknorob23

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning CJ, just wanted to give you the credit you deserve on this thread and others. You have been a guiding light for those of us interested in the higher performance of our amps.  If I have caused you grief, I apologize to you personly, and if the moderators want to ban me, not a problem our friendship is not based on this internet thread.  Hopefully you will have better control of this in the future, so you do not get any more grief.  Take good care of yourself. CF



A big +1 from me on this. Life’s been a bit busy so I’ve not been on headfi much in the last few weeks, but I have to echo these and everyone else’s sentiments, I wouldn’t be getting half the pleasure out of the euforia that I am without CJ’s help, advice and creation of such a welcoming, knowledgable and generous spirited thread. My only gripe I have with you is regarding what you’ve done to my life by introducing me to neotech wire and my soldering iron! Apart from the last bit, great job, much appreciated and thank you  rob


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## hypnos1 (Sep 13, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning CJ, just wanted to give you the credit you deserve on this thread and others. You have been a guiding light for those of us interested in the higher performance of our amps.  If I have caused you grief, I apologize to you personly, and if the moderators want to ban me, not a problem our friendship is not based on this internet thread.  Hopefully you will have better control of this in the future, so you do not get any more grief.  Take good care of yourself. CF



Hi cf, and thanks for your kind words also. And certainly no need to apologise as far as I'm concerned...as I explained to the moderator, human flesh can only take so much provocation before having to say what needs to be said, regardless of the outcome. And as I mentioned previously, any hint whatsoever of such disruptive intent in the future, and I - plus the moderators - will step in straight away! Our friendly community is far too precious to be compromised in such a way lol ...let alone our personal friendship.... Anyway, now we move on, mon ami......



teknorob23 said:


> A big +1 from me on this. Life’s been a bit busy so I’ve not been on headfi much in the last few weeks, but I have to echo these and everyone else’s sentiments, I wouldn’t be getting half the pleasure out of the euforia that I am without CJ’s help, advice and creation of such a welcoming, knowledgable and generous spirited thread. My only gripe I have with you is regarding what you’ve done to my life by introducing me to neotech wire and my soldering iron! Apart from the last bit, great job, much appreciated and thank you  rob



And thanks to you too, tr, for taking the time out from your busy life...just as I know a good many others appreciate topics we've covered here...including soldering irons and cables/wire lol!! 

Speaking of wonderful Neotech UP-OCC wire, I'm looking forward to seeing just what it can do for my new Tannoy xt6f speakers that arrived today...(I blame @Johnnysound for prompting a revisit to using Euforia as pre-amp, with our latest EL39 etc tubes!! ). Although they aren't monoliths, with the (scary!) bass drivers of his and cf's towers, already I can see the potential for doing justice to my EL39/'special' Mazda EL38 power combo. Bass goes down way deeper than my Dynaudio standmounts (unsuprisingly!), and will surely tighten a good bit more with burn-in...(wonder how long that will take...longer, or shorter than headphones?). But already they're displaying the also crystal clear treble and upper mids of this tube combo...and all this with 'just' ordinary pure silver speaker cables. But knowing the prowess of UP-OCC wire, I can't wait to get my new cables made up, using solid silver _and_ copper wires... as always now. Nothing else will do lol! (And look at just how much cable manufacturers try to charge for something similar...*crazy!!* ). Mind you, luckily I don't need long runs for the speakers.......CHEERS!...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Sep 14, 2019)

Hi @hypnos1 and WOW,  what a nice pair of Tannoys ¡¡  As with all new speakers they will benefit from a good burn in, I guess at least some 30 hours or so...and don't worry, I found  your Neotech cables: https://www.partsconnexion.com/NEOTECH-75494.html   :beautiful silver/copper hybrid UPOCC speaker cables, biwirable at a reasonable price ¡  11 AWG is all you need, and since you *should* biwire the Tannoys for optimum performance, these Neotech with 8 silver/copper conductors are ideal (4 red/blk pairs for low & high terminals)...

IMHO, a dedicated biwire speaker cable such as this one will not only be way more practical, but give superior results against other alternatives...


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## DecentLevi

@Wildcatsare1 wishing success on your headphone jack issue. It's definitely  not common for F.A. amps and yours could be the first. Have you found a solution yet?


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 14, 2019)

..


----------



## teknorob23

Johnnysound said:


> And furthermore about speaker cables...I personally found that biwiring did make a big difference against single runs.  At first I tought that biwiring was just another gimmick, but since my fancy MIT Terminator cables become too short for my new “man’s cave”, I had to improvise a temporary solution with “ordinary” cables, and in an electronics store I found a roll of  US made “structural” 13 AWG speaker cable, that looked nice & tough  with just a few copper conductors per pole.  It was fairly priced, so I bought some 15 meters to make a fully biwired double run, of course carefully threading each side.
> 
> While I was working with the raw cable (music sounding) my 23 year old son asked what the hell I was doing, and I told him that I was making a biwired speaker cable, because I needed a longer run for the speakers, and in theory a biwire might sound better than a single run. (I had no idea how this “ordinary” cable would sound)   He looked at the MIT Terminators and said: no way!  are you telling me than that s$&@it  will sound better ?  I want to see that !!
> 
> Ok. the experiment was set. I asked him to put some of his favorite music with the single run, and then installed the double run. He played his same music  and after 30 seconds said very seriously: hey pa’, this is sounding much better than before...and I felt exactly the same, but we “audiophiles” tend to imagine sonic things sometimes   (perhaps not very objectively)...but the opinion of a totally “non audiophile” witness is another matter...I rest my case.



Interesting findings and I know to bi-wire or not to bi-wire is one most well travelled arguments in hifi. I’ve also come close to madness experimenting with bi-wiring with lots of different sets of speakers and amplifiers, but my findings were much less conclusive, unlike bi-amping where performance improvements are generally obvious. That said my PMC twenty5 unlike their predecessors are built with single set of binding posts, a choice which seems to be fashionable with many manufacturers. I suspect like in other situations in hifi eg balanced versus SE headphone outs, it comes down to application rather than a rule of thumb. If you can hear and like fhe differences in performance bi-wiring brings, do it


----------



## Wildcatsare1

DecentLevi said:


> @Wildcatsare1 wishing success on your headphone jack issue. It's definitely  not common for F.A. amps and yours could be the first. Have you found a solution yet?



I still haven’t heard back, do they monitor this Thread?


----------



## UntilThen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I still haven’t heard back, do they monitor this Thread?



They might be on holidays. There's the usual 1 month European holidays. Not sure but I recall that's how it is from the past. If needing urgent attention, you might be better to have a competent local technician have a look at it. Could be a minor problem.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

UntilThen said:


> They might be on holidays. There's the usual 1 month European holidays. Not sure but I recall that's how it is from the past. If needing urgent attention, you might be better to have a competent local technician have a look at it. Could be a minor problem.



That’s my guess as well, though I wanted to see if they had a recommendation. Perhaps a look wire, i was wondering if they’d seen this before and what was the fix.


----------



## UntilThen

Wildcatsare1 said:


> That’s my guess as well, though I wanted to see if they had a recommendation. Perhaps a look wire, i was wondering if they’d seen this before and what was the fix.



That's understandable. It's definitely better to have FA look at it as they would know the amp inside out. However in the interim, your Woo Audio Wa5 should keep you entertained.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

UntilThen said:


> That's understandable. It's definitely better to have FA look at it as they would know the amp inside out. However in the interim, your Woo Audio Wa5 should keep you entertained.



It certainly does, thanks!


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 15, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Hi @hypnos1 and WOW,  what a nice pair of Tannoys ¡¡  As with all new speakers they will benefit from a good burn in, I guess at least some 30 hours or so...and don't worry, I found  your Neotech cables: https://www.partsconnexion.com/NEOTECH-75494.html   :beautiful silver/copper hybrid UPOCC speaker cables, biwirable at a reasonable price ¡  11 AWG is all you need, and since you *should* biwire the Tannoys for optimum performance, these Neotech with 8 silver/copper conductors are ideal (4 red/blk pairs for low & high terminals)...
> 
> IMHO, a dedicated biwire speaker cable such as this one will not only be way more practical, but give superior results against other alternatives...



Hi J...although that cable looks very good value for bi-wiring, not to mention neat and compact, I've already bought my wires lol!! And as I've been so impressed with - and always favour - _solid_ vs _stranded_ wire up to now, I stick with what I know...(despite a possible slight _psychological_ element here!! ). Obviously, very _long_ runs of solid UP-OCC silver especially would change the situation drastically alas!! 

That was an interesting finding of yours re. the alternative - and cheaper! - cables, but as @teknorob23 says, I'm sure the bi-wiring topic does bring different results in different systems...especially, perhaps, when it comes to long runs. But as my Vincent SV121 doesn't have bi-wire facility anyway, I shan't be able to test for myself...and also therefore save myself a good few $$$$$££££££!! 

Anyway, still with 'just' pure silver cables, my new Tannoys are settling in very nicely indeed already (even if I haven't been able to really let them rip yet...sadly...). But even so, with windows rattling already - courtesy also of Euforia + EL11/EL39/'special' Mazda EL38, I can't begin to imagine what happens in domiciles where towers like yours and @connieflyer 's reside lol!  I've a feeling that when I do eventually manage to let the bass soar, I might well have to put just a little 'Acoustiwool' dampening material in the bottom bass ports (I _hate_ bungs!)...certainly worked wonders when I put some inside my Dynaudios.

Mind you, what I find a better indication of speakers' qualities is how they sound at _low_ volume levels. And these Tannoys keep delivering wonderful detail, stage and dynamics even at _very_ low listening levels...which pleases my better half no end especially! And at half the normal £1000 price, what more can one ask for?

And so a photo of what has drawn me back to _occasional_ speaker listening land...


----------



## connieflyer

Nice system CJ, and I would not worry about the earth shattering bass! On occasion, I have increased the subwoofer output to -10, (still a long ways to go to 0) and combined with the four bass speakers in the SVS it is sensational.  However, you can not really listen to it as such, as a demo or for movies sure, but for music, the bass is only a small part of the equation.  The mids and highs have all the intracies and intimate nuances that make the music so enjoyable.  The bass is more guterral, and visceral . Don't get me wrong, I love a good bass line, but not to the detriment of the entire piece. My demo piece is from the Hans Zimmer sound track, The Last Samurai, called the way of the sword.  There is a lot of 30-50Hz  content, about two and a half minutes in, and with the sub turned up to about -12 and volume up,and it lasts for a a couple of minutes, you can feel it in your gut.  It will vibrate the recliner even and yes I have very secure hooks on the pictures on the wall!  I must admit, it is FUN!!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Nice system CJ, and I would not worry about the earth shattering bass! On occasion, I have increased the subwoofer output to -10, (still a long ways to go to 0) and combined with the four bass speakers in the SVS it is sensational.  However, you can not really listen to it as such, as a demo or for movies sure, but for music, the bass is only a small part of the equation.  The mids and highs have all the intracies and intimate nuances that make the music so enjoyable.  The bass is more guterral, and visceral . Don't get me wrong, I love a good bass line, but not to the detriment of the entire piece. My demo piece is from the Hans Zimmer sound track, The Last Samurai, called the way of the sword.  There is a lot of 30-50Hz  content, about two and a half minutes in, and with the sub turned up to about -12 and volume up,and it lasts for a a couple of minutes, you can feel it in your gut.  It will vibrate the recliner even and yes I have very secure hooks on the pictures on the wall!  I must admit, it is FUN!!!



Ye Gods cf, I'd be kicked out the door in ten seconds flat if I even _looked_ at those lovely behemoths lol!  They certainly look like they mean business, and must be dynamite for blockbuster film surround sound. But as you say, for purely music, bass _quality_ is far more important than _quantity_...although a good dose of the latter doesn't go amiss sometimes!

And it's always nice to see what other gear partners our amps......


----------



## connieflyer

I am certain that if my wife was still alive the speakers would be shall we say on a much less Grand scale. The system I replace this with was considerably less ostentatious. But for movies oh, these just get the job done so well! And for music it's a very nice blend of the musical Spectrum. The sub really doesn't come in to the music that much once everything is balanced but the occasional low notes do sound much better. I figured if depression finally overtook me this would be one way to kill myself just turn the volume up to Max on everything and sit in the middle of the floor and just listen to music until my head exploded! What a way to go!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I am certain that if my wife was still alive the speakers would be shall we say on a much less Grand scale. The system I replace this with was considerably less ostentatious. But for movies oh, these just get the job done so well! And for music it's a very nice blend of the musical Spectrum. The sub really doesn't come in to the music that much once everything is balanced but the occasional low notes do sound much better. I figured if depression finally overtook me this would be one way to kill myself just turn the volume up to Max on everything and sit in the middle of the floor and just listen to music until my head exploded! *What a way to go!*



Well, cf...much as I'm now loving my music more than ever before in my life, I've a feeling a sudden exit from this mortal coil just _might_ be surpassed by the delights(?) of becoming a 'sugar Daddy', no?!!  However, your suggestion sounds much more realistic - and likely! - lol ...

Anyway, for the present, I'm happy to say _joy of joys!_ ...not only has my love of speaker sound been rekindled big time by my Euforia setup as pre-amp - and even more by the day as the new Tannoys continue to burn in - but my better half has also admitted that one of her favourite CDs is sounding much much better than ever before. And, surprisingly, this from her modest Yamaha multi-CD player direct to the Vincent SS amp, without the help of Euforia! So I don't get quite so many frowns now! 
 And although Julio Iglesias is not really my cup o' tea, I have to admit that some of his tracks on the 'Crazy' album make very pleasant easy listening, and these speakers are showing just how well they're actually engineered/recorded. And confirms I never realised just how good this Vincent SV121 truly is!

But things go to another level (thankfully, given the $$$$$$!) with the Euforia system in place, and already bass is tightening such that I may well not need to stuff anything into the bottom ports after all...but I'm definitely gonna have to do something about an interior window that now rattles even at low(ish) volume levels lol!!

And so in conclusion, I shall be doing my utmost to tempt my good lady out of the house for a good few hours more often...but I draw the line at letting her loose on the shops with my credit card in hand!  I also echo @Johnnysound 's recommendation to perhaps consider Euforia more as pre-amp, and not just purely for cans...especially if lucky enough to possess the EL38s and/or 39s as power tubes...still, as far as I'm concerned, superior in performance to _any_ 6AS7G/6080/5998 etc. But as always, YMMV...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## chrisdrop

All,

I just wanted to offer some thanks for this thread. I have spent (more than) a few days reading back from the start of this 400+ page thread as part of evaluating/ considering getting a Euforia. There are 100+ pages of pre-Euforia .. euphoria! 

In short, thanks for the thread / information / enthusiasm. I am now looking forwards to an inbound Euforia via another HeadFier. I also had some PMs with a few - you also have my thanks. 

Expect some new/ naive questions sometime soon !

Best,
Chris

N.B. (PS if you prefer) One particularly amusing post in the early 150 or so pages where @UntilThen said there would be no more tubes coming to his house. Having following the Glenn thread and this one, I think we all know how that one went. @UntilThen - I am sure you don't mind having violated that particular statement. 

N.B.2. I will still be keen on a Glenn amp, but that will take time!


----------



## UntilThen

Hi Chris, no problem.  I'm aware that I've said more than once that I will stop buying tubes but the time out didn't last. Probably will never stop as long as the name remains Until Then. 

This thread had been my home for quite a long time and I've made so many friends here and in the previous Elise thread. Time moves on and so did I but I did not forget some of the close friends I met here, particularly Colin and Don. Phil was the other but he has gone to a better place, up to the heavens. The humour, the banters and camaraderie amongst this group will remain with me and will not be forgotten.

Congrats on Euforia. You won't be disappointed especially if you've paid a discounted price from another HeadFier. Enjoy !

Cheers
UT


----------



## connieflyer

I think at one time or another most of us have said the same thing.  And then someone comes up with a new bright shiny tube with magical properties, and away we go.  Fortuneatly it has usually been a good thing for me.  Using the present combo of tubes, I am very satisfied with how the Euforia sounds.  Especially as a pre-amp, it has renewed my pleasure with my speaker system.


----------



## UntilThen

pctazhp said:


> I'm selling CF my wife. He is moving to Korea with her, where he wrongfully believes polygamy is legal, and plans to marry my wife and Lily in a single ceremony. CF wants someone with a British accent to perform the ceremony so H1 is applying on line to become an ordained minister in the Church of What's Happening Now.
> 
> You and I are moving to Tibet where we will establish a monastery where we will spend the rest of our natural born days ummmmmming or Doodle-Doing, unless we are abducted by aliens in Flying Saucers. If you want, we can build a controlled environment structure filled with seagulls to whom you can give speeches to whenever you want.
> 
> ...



I almost forgot the fun we had back in those days. Thanks for the memories guys....


----------



## connieflyer

We had a great time, waiting for our  Euforias to come in and to keep the thread going. I almost said to keep it interesting, but that might have been pushing it a little bit too far. Phil and I had a blast, it was so easy to pick on him being a lawyer and all, that is he was the lawyer I was doing the picking! But he did have a very Lively imagination. It would be nice to get back to that same kind of attitude occasionally on the threat


----------



## connieflyer

I think once UT, PCT, H1 and myself we're hanging out I think we tried to outdo each other with being a little bit outlandish! Childish, probably, enjoyable thoroughly!


----------



## chrisdrop

Having just fast-forwarded through a few years of the thread - it *absolutely* seems like much banter-laden fun was had by all.


----------



## connieflyer

It definitely did, and most fun I've had on any thread in the last 10 years


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I think once UT, PCT, H1 and myself we're hanging out I think we tried to outdo each other with being a little bit outlandish! Childish, probably, enjoyable thoroughly!



It was also a time when the bond and friendship were more close than with my real life friends. I've never connected with a group so much online before. Someday when I have time I will have to re-read the entire thread but that might bring back some sadness because Phil is no longer here.


----------



## connieflyer

Quite right UT, it was a very special time. There was a lot of camaraderie, and I believe we had more fun on this early thread then I've ever seen on any of the others that I have been a part of. Phil was a very special person, it was a shame that he was cut down like he was. He was about to embark on a new life abroad, with a new wife and child and new business plans as well. He is sorely missed. He helped me when I was going through a very dark. After my wife died, and our interactions both on the thread and our personal Communications we're very helpful to me as were others. I have gone back to the early pages of the thread to reread some of the ridiculous things that we said to each other and always came back with a smile. Thanks for bringing that post up that was a real gasser!


----------



## UntilThen

No worries Don. You need a good chat you know how to get me. The friendship lives on. Enjoy Euforia !


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks UT


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Quite right UT, it was a very special time. There was a lot of camaraderie, and I believe we had more fun on this early thread then I've ever seen on any of the others that I have been a part of. Phil was a very special person, it was a shame that he was cut down like he was. He was about to embark on a new life abroad, with a new wife and child and new business plans as well. He is sorely missed. He helped me when I was going through a very dark. After my wife died, and our interactions both on the thread and our personal Communications we're very helpful to me as were others. I have gone back to the early pages of the thread to reread some of the ridiculous things that we said to each other and always came back with a smile. Thanks for bringing that post up that was a real gasser!



Hi cf. Phil is truly missed...not just a shame he was taken prematurely like that - especially as you say given his chance at a new life, but _cruel_. And yet the bad'uns seem to go on forever lol! It's such iniquities in life that continually shake any belief in 'higher beings' I'm afraid (without being blasphemous). But at least all our lives were greatly enriched by his presence among us...RIP (still) pctazhp...


----------



## connieflyer

Could not agree with you more CJ. It does seem patently unfair that those good people should be taken early. Of course you do realize when we say that they're gone because they were the good ones and we're still here so does that make us the bad ones? Yeah I didn't think that through either, but it's early I'm sure I'll have plenty of time yet to make even more mistakes you take good care of yourself CJ


----------



## hypnos1

[QUOTE_=_"connieflyer, post: 15192773, member: 340226"]Could not agree with you more CJ. It does seem patently unfair that those good people should be taken early. Of course you do realize when we say that* they're gone because they were the good ones and we're still here so does that make us the bad ones?* Yeah I didn't think that through either, but it's early I'm sure I'll have plenty of time yet to make even more mistakes you take good care of yourself CJ[/QUOTE]

GOOD POINT cf!! ...but I like to think that perhaps it's so we can continue Phil's good work and try to be of some assistance to our welcome newcomers lol??!! . Mind you, I could just be fooling myself!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Good point CJ, I think I will agree to your estimation a y us slightly older folks are still here!


----------



## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> All,
> 
> I just wanted to offer some thanks for this thread. I have spent (more than) a few days reading back from the start of this 400+ page thread as part of evaluating/ considering getting a Euforia. There are 100+ pages of pre-Euforia .. euphoria!
> 
> ...



A belated welcome to you chrisdrop...and well done for acquiring your own Euforia. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with it (or _her_, as I prefer to say lol ).

And I always admire those who take the trouble to plow through so many pages to get an idea of what we here are about, not just the amp!!  But I do realise that not everyone has the time perhaps to take on such a mammoth task...well done again! This should, however, give you a very good grounding in what to expect and perhaps give a clue as to the sorts of tubes that might suit your own system and tastes. And, of course, we'll be here to answer any further questions/advice you might have in the future. I wish you...HAPPY LISTENING!...CHEERS! ...CJ


----------



## chrisdrop

UntilThen said:


> I have something to share here. My Elise had the left channel going almost mute just when Euforia arrived. Elise has only been with me for 1.5 years but albeit heavily used in the sense of normal daily usage. I think I practically use Elise everyday. I don't use fancy Christmas tree setups. However I have used drivers and power tubes that are not in Feliks Audio list of recommended tubes. Tubes such as C3G, ECC31, FDD20 with external power supply, EL3N, EL11, EL12, EL12N, EF80, EF86, 6BL7... the list goes on.
> 
> So I send it back to FA and instructed Lukasz to make it new again because I do love Elise very much. Make it new they did. Lukasz told me they changed everything, except the transformer and chassis and brought it to upgraded 2017 Elise current specs. I was curious what cause my Elise to fail from just normal daily usage. So I wrote Lukasz an email, asking him and his dad to tell me what's wrong with my Elise.
> 
> ...



This is a VERY old post (2017!), but I was wondering about the current view on the EL11s. There are recent comments that seem very positive on the EL11+EL39 combo. Is there any risk in that setup, given Lukasz's comments? 

Thanks in advance...


----------



## chrisdrop

hypnos1 said:


> A belated welcome to you chrisdrop...and well done for acquiring your own Euforia. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with it (or _her_, as I prefer to say lol ).



Thanks to all for the warm welcome. 

She hadn't arrived yet, but I hope within the next few days I will get to know 'er a bit better. It would not be the 1st piece of audio gear that has made my wife jealous!


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 17, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> This is a VERY old post (2017!), but I was wondering about the current view on the EL11s. There are recent comments that seem very positive on the EL11+EL39 combo. Is there any risk in that setup, given Lukasz's comments?
> 
> Thanks in advance...



Hi cd...the clue is in the date lol!  But a valid query nonetheless!

When I first sent F-A a pair of EL11s to bench test, they were indeed somewhat surprised at my own findings...the readings especially being very 'unusual'. Given their superlative performance in my system, I really couldn't understand why they thought them 'below par'. I can only assume they didn't give them enough time for their test amp to readjust to their different requirements lol!

Anyway, undeterred, I (and other fellow pioneers) continued with them as I knew they had wonderful potential, after all the other top rated tubes I'd adapted and tested...like the C3g; ECC31/NR73 (a common cathode version of the famous ECC32); FDD20 (20V, using external power supply). And so, after many hundreds of hours' use of these EL tubes - *without any ill effects whatsoever* - I was also determined to prove that any heat-related issue with the amp was _*not*_ the fault of these. I did so by measuring the temperature of *every single component* inside the amp, and found they _*all*_ ran at about 10 deg C cooler than with stock tubes...and one small area in particular at *20* deg C cooler! In the face of this result, Lukasz had to admit that if this continued, these tubes would have to be deemed as _safe_ to use. Well, this has indeed continued to be the case for many hundreds of hours more, and not just in my own system.

The same has proved to be the case with the EL12/N; EL12 Spezial; EL38 and latterly the EL39. And so, rather than being a danger to our amps, the fact they have them running FAR cooler must be a very welcoming factor in improving their longevity lol ...not to mention their superior performance over 'conventional' tubes, as found by many others besides myself....(132 EL11 and 65 EL38 adapters sold speaks volumes IMHO! ).

Sorry for my (usual!) long-winded reply, but no doubt you've discovered by now that I'm not into _partial/incomplete_ explanations/descriptions lol . And hopefully this has put your mind more at rest...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. With the amount of time you'll be devoting to your new mistress, I don't doubt there could very well be further jealousy raising its head!


----------



## chrisdrop

Hey @hypnos1

Thanks very much for the detailed response. Those tubes are also in my future - so ... good news for my new gal n' I!


----------



## hypnos1

Right then guys, despite my renewed appreciation of speakers - especially now my Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper-wired cables are burning in nicely, returning to my Empyreans after a few days' absence has reminded me big time of why I have come to love the sound only top flight headphones can really deliver...when partnering an amp such as Euforia, and _especially_ being fortunate enough with my (yes!!) 'end game' tube combo of EL11/EL39/'special' Mazda EL38.

Yes, the large transducers in (good) speakers will churn one's stomach and rattle one's bones in a way headphones never can, of course..._however_, my current Euforia system delivers a different, but just as thrilling a bass _experience_. It's as though the ears and brain are able to send a _feeling _throughout the body _as if_ that large volume of air was hitting like a hammer lol!  I hadn't fully appreciated that before...a prime example of 'familiarity breeds contempt' _and_ 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' methinks . Add on the kind of detail separation and positioning etc. that I'm sure Johnnysound is right in saying I'd probably only be able to match with speakers costing multiple thousands of dollars, and I know where my heart will truly stay.
Whatever, I feel as though I've returned to the fold, after having strayed from the path! Mind you, I'm still impressed with my speaker sound and will be trying my hardest to fit in more such listening time...better half permitting!!

I wish you all similar joy from your amp...whether Euforia, or Elise - both truly excellent amps .


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> I'm happy to announce impressions of EL38 pairings with top-tier driver / power tubes
> 
> *EL38 AS POWERS *
> 
> ...


Question about adapters for using EL family of tubes in Elise / Euforia: Do the same adapters work whether the EL's are placed in driver (6SN7) or power (6AS7G) socket?


----------



## OctavianH

Yes, all 4 are octal sockets.


----------



## LoryWiv

Thank you for the reply, @OctavianH!


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## hypnos1 (Sep 18, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Question about adapters for using EL family of tubes in Elise / Euforia: Do the same adapters work whether the EL's are placed in driver (6SN7) or power (6AS7G) socket?



Hi LW...yes indeed, as OH said. Luckily, pin layout is the same for the 6SN7 _and_ 6AS7G...very handy lol! 

Edit. ps...IMPORTANT!...*Do not* use the EL12 as _drivers_ with 6AS7G/6080 powers. The total heater current draw would then be 7.4A...the absolute maximum safe amount being just under 7A


----------



## OctavianH (Sep 18, 2019)

I made an XLS in the past with different families and U/I. You can use this:







For Euforia 7A and for Elise 6.5A would be a maximum recommended.

Ps. 6336x and 6BL7/6BX7 are not compatible, as far as I know with Elise/Euforia.

Later edit to avoid double posting:

@mordy I was able to fix a pair of RCA VT-231 which had a problem that one of the tubes was noisy/crackling by using your fix. I used a simple 60W soldering iron and heated each pin up to 30 seconds. From 2 pins a small amount of tin started to came out of the tube which means something started to melt inside. Anyway, I kept it in the vertical position and let it for 15 min. Now I try it in my Elise and no noise is hearing. Let's hope I fixed it. Thanks!!!






Anyway I observed that the "faulty" tube is not lighting like the other (see right channel). Let's hope this is not a problem.


----------



## LarsGrootkarzij

Hello, I'am in search for a new headphone amp. How does this match with The Senn HD 800S anyone who has any experience with that combo? And if so which DAC does match well? Only downside for now for me is that it does not have a balanced out.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I made an XLS in the past with different families and U/I. You can use this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A useful table re. tube basic specs...and I shall stress even more strongly to folks...*do not go anywhere near the 6336!!* As per your table, it draws nearly *5A* heater current, so would fry the transformer in no time flat lol!! 

And your wayward VT231 sounds much like the 2 I had in the past...they might well be very good tubes - when they work! - but both of mine were very soon totally unsafe to use. Didn't bother with any more!


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> And your wayward VT231 sounds much like the 2 I had in the past...they might well be very good tubes - when they work! - but both of mine were very soon totally unsafe to use. Didn't bother with any more!



Well, let's hope they will continue to work because I quite like them combined with a pair of Tung Sol 7236. Veiled somehow but with a very rich midrange, the electric guitar sounds great on these.


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 18, 2019)

Right then guys...a quandary am I in. How do you deal with _two_ mistresses, both screaming for your attention?!

The first, obviously, is Euforia with Empyrean_ headphones_. But fast on her heels is coming Euforia as pre-amp to my new _speakers_ (the Tannoy XT6f), via the Vincent SS amp!
Re the would-be usurper, now that my new DIY speaker cables - with you-know-what wires - have even hardly begun to burn in, they (thankfully) confirm once again the superiority of UP-OCC (mono crystal) wire over even pure 'ordinary' silver and OFC copper wires. The difference in performance from these Tannoys was immediately noticeable...the slight 'bloom' in bass heavy recordings all but disappeared, meaning I won't even need to think of possibly using some damping material in the bass ports...phew!! Lower bass - courtesy of the EL39/'special' Mazda EL38 power tubes - is already tighter, more solid and better controlled...and this will, no doubt, continue as the speakers burn in some more. And upper bass/lower mids are more evident also. Definitely a gift from the solid UP-OCC _copper _wires. I wasn't actually expecting such control this early with Sade's 'Soldier of Love' album...its bass being 'enhanced' in the recording, to say the least lol!! 

Moving on to the other end of the spectrum, the upper frequencies now have that extra smoothness of the _silver_ UP-OCC, while still retaining a crystal clear sparkle right at the very top...and no hint whatsoever of sibilance in decently recorded material. My go-to test for treble handling is Genesis's 'Duke' album, replete with masses of percussion. This speaker setup handles it with total aplomb...again, much better than I ever thought it would this early in proceedings...helped a good deal also by Euforia's masterly control of things in all sections of the FR.

And so, back to the quandary...how to handle these two demanding mistresses?! (How on earth ancient Kings and Emperors coped with _many_ such 'concubines' I can't begin to imagine lol! ). But, of course, the obvious - and _only_ way really! - is to place them all in an orderly queue of priority. And so, thrilled though I am by the seductive newcomer, it _must_ be : Euforia with _Empyreans_, number 1 mistress; Euforia with _Tannoys_, number 2...and let them fight it out!! ...(so long as there isn't any blood!). CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

LarsGrootkarzij said:


> Hello, I'am in search for a new headphone amp. How does this match with The Senn HD 800S anyone who has any experience with that combo? And if so which DAC does match well? Only downside for now for me is that it does not have a balanced out.



Hi Lars...and welcome.

There are those who are extremely pleased with the original HD800 pairing and I believe, also some 800S owners...(I know our departed friend pctazhp loved his own with Euforia). 
As for DACs, with Euforia being fairly neutral (but full -bodied!), I think a wide range should be more than suitable. I personally have the Hugo 2 which, in my own system, matches extremely well.

As you well know, the balanced vs SE topic is pretty controversial, and much depends upon the _quality_ of implementation. F-A's amps, like many other very good amps, focus on getting superb performance from SE design, and it's doubtful if the much greater expense involved in _true_ balanced circuits would actually bring very noticeable improvements in performance, and certainly be questionable value-for-money lol . This seems to often be more a _personal_ thing than a truly _objective, universally accepted_ one. But as usual, and rightly so of course, each has his own opinion......

Hopefully others will also be able to give their own views on the topics you mention...and good luck with whatever choice you eventually make.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I made an XLS in the past with different families and U/I. You can use this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear you got it sorted, I'll have to give it a go as I have a faulty National Union tube.


----------



## connieflyer

Hello and welcome Lars, I see you are considering the Euforia using them with a Sennheiser 800s. That is a great combination. I have the Sennheiser 800 and have using them with this amp and the previous Elise amp and I've had really great success. I have tried other headphones as well and always keep coming back to the Sennheiser 800. Our good friend PCT had the 800s and he was in love with it. I don't think that you can go wrong with this combination. As far as a DAC I have been using the Schitt Gungnir and have not seen the need for anything different. My last ap amp had a balance out and I don't feel I have given up anything going to single ended. They have done a great job on the design and implementation of this amplifier. It works very well with many different headphones, my favorite so far has been the Sennheiser 800. So I do believe that you will enjoy this type of an amplifier. Good luck


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW...yes indeed, as OH said. Luckily, pin layout is the same for the 6SN7 _and_ 6AS7G...very handy lol!
> 
> Edit. ps...IMPORTANT!...*Do not* use the EL12 as _drivers_ with 6AS7G/6080 powers. The total heater current draw would then be 7.4A...the absolute maximum safe amount being just under 7A


Understood, will "keep cool" with heater currents totaling below 7! Thank you, @hypnos1


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I made an XLS in the past with different families and U/I. You can use this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Happy to hear that you were able to save the tube. I would say that if the solder starts to seep out you should discontinue heating the pin - the 30 seconds of heat is just a general guide.
This method is only for crackling and popping noises. For hum and microphonics it may help to stretch tight a band of high temperature self fusing silicone tape (available for automotive and plumbing use) around the glass.
Regarding the tube glow in a tube, it may differ from one tube to other, perhaps because of how the internal components were assembled. If the tubes sound the same I would not worry if one has less glow than the other.
As an aside, I have noticed that pairs of the same tube may show different temperature readings  with no discernible effect on the sound.


----------



## OctavianH

mordy said:


> Happy to hear that you were able to save the tube. I would say that if the solder starts to seep out you should discontinue heating the pin - the 30 seconds of heat is just a general guide.
> This method is only for crackling and popping noises. For hum and microphonics it may help to stretch tight a band of high temperature self fusing silicone tape (available for automotive and plumbing use) around the glass.
> Regarding the tube glow in a tube, it may differ from one tube to other, perhaps because of how the internal components were assembled. If the tubes sound the same I would not worry if one has less glow than the other.
> As an aside, I have noticed that pairs of the same tube may show different temperature readings  with no discernible effect on the sound.



If I remember correctly the tube was not lightning at all when I tried it last time. So maybe the melting solved a path issue there and now it started to work as expected. I do not hear differences betweend them, I switched left to right just to be sure and seems fine.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> If I remember correctly the tube was not lightning at all when I tried it last time. So maybe the melting solved a path issue there and now it started to work as expected. I do not hear differences betweend them, I switched left to right just to be sure and seems fine.



You're very fortunate there with it obviously being just the heater, OH, rather than having to work on _all_ the pins lol! 

I too recently had the same issue with an EL39(!), but the pin reheat only worked for a short time unfortunately. However, after using a fine hacksaw to take off a short piece of the pin (was lucky enough to find the right one of the two straight away!), resoldering with new solder did the trick...thank goodness! 

So this might be an answer for anyone if needed in the future....

ps. If ever trying this method, be sure to grip the tube's _base_ tightly while working, _not_ the glass - especially if the shoulder ('coke bottle') type of tube. The latter's glass certainly can sometimes be surprisingly thin and _can _break with enough sideways force...think _eggs_ lol!


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 20, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Right then guys, despite my renewed appreciation of speakers - especially now my Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper-wired cables are burning in nicely, returning to my Empyreans after a few days' absence has reminded me big time of why I have come to love the sound only top flight headphones can really deliver...when partnering an amp such as Euforia, and _especially_ being fortunate enough with my (yes!!) 'end game' tube combo of EL11/EL39/'special' Mazda EL38.
> 
> Yes, the large transducers in (good) speakers will churn one's stomach and rattle one's bones in a way headphones never can, of course..._however_, my current Euforia system delivers a different, but just as thrilling a bass _experience_. It's as though the ears and brain are able to send a _feeling _throughout the body _as if_ that large volume of air was hitting like a hammer lol!  I hadn't fully appreciated that before...a prime example of 'familiarity breeds contempt' _and_ 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' methinks . Add on the kind of detail separation and positioning etc. that I'm sure Johnnysound is right in saying I'd probably only be able to match with speakers costing multiple thousands of dollars, and I know where my heart will truly stay.
> Whatever, I feel as though I've returned to the fold, after having strayed from the path! Mind you, I'm still impressed with my speaker sound and will be trying my hardest to fit in more such listening time...better half permitting!!
> ...



My comment about the superiority of good cans vs speakers (in terms of ultimate sonic detail accuracy/precision/timbre) was an easy one: if both my humble AT M50LEs (closed back) and Senn HD579 (open),  very good “midrange”  HPs,   sounded waaay  better than my speakers under the above parameters, then top notch (and much more expensive) cans like the Empyreans or, say, HD800s, would surely sound _infinitely_ better than _any_ “normal” pair of speakers...

But take it easy, H1 (Lol) and let the Tannoys loose themselves...of all audio components, I have found that speakers are the ones that _really_  need burn in to reach their peak performance. You know, voice coils, crossover components...while different from HPs they will show their own sonic magic around air, space, dynamics and lifelike rendition of the music.  It is kind of another dimension of Euforia sound and one certainly worth of experiencing !!


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 20, 2019)

I have noticed this burn in with my current speakers. They sounded good out of the box but the longer I have had them, the better they are getting.  A friend that had been here when I first was using them, liked them straight away, he recently stopped by, and we spent some time listening to the system and he was very impressed with how m uch better they sounded.  I thought I had noticed this as well, but put it down to owner bias. One factor may have been, Anthem recently upgraded their ARC system, and I had just redone the balance system, and I noticed it was much improved, or thought I did. With the purportions of the room, on one end of the cathedral ceiling , not centered the accoustics can suffer if not allowed for.  The new ARC does an amazing job, All five measurements are taken right around the main seating, in my case a recliner. So all five micings were within two feet of each other.


----------



## OctavianH

You seem to love airplanes a lot


----------



## connieflyer

I was an flight electronic technician on this aircraft for many years. Best years of my life, other than marriage of course!


----------



## chrisdrop

Euforia landed. Stock tubes in to acclimatise 1st and enjoy. 
So far - pleased


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> My comment about the superiority of good cans vs speakers (in terms of ultimate sonic detail accuracy/precision/timbre) was an easy one: if both my humble AT M50LEs (closed back) and Senn HD579 (open),  very good “midrange”  HPs,   sounded waaay  better than my speakers under the above parameters, then top notch (and much more expensive) cans like the Empyreans or, say, HD800s, would surely sound _infinitely_ better than _any_ “normal” pair of speakers...
> 
> But take it easy, H1 (Lol) and let the Tannoys loose themselves...of all audio components, I have found that speakers are the ones that _really_  need burn in to reach their peak performance. You know, voice coils, crossover components...while different from HPs they will show their own sonic magic around air, space, dynamics and lifelike rendition of the music.  It is kind of another dimension of Euforia sound and one certainly worth of experiencing !!



Yes indeed, on all counts J. 

Further to my follow on post re. a second demanding mistress...with even just a few more hours on both the Tannoys and new UP-OCC wired cables, it's fast becoming a case of claws at dawn lol! After trying my stalwart test album - the music score from 'Gladiator', the Tannoys simply blew me away (almost literally, once the incredibly dynamic track 'Battle' came on!!). Then Holst's 'Planets' Suite (hi-res remaster of Boult/LPO masterpiece) had me equally enthralled. But then, of course, both these pieces were intended for large concert hall listening, and the experience is one that headphones simply can't replicate in the same way. But still..._vive la difference!
_
And so with mistress #2 now vying strongly for my undivided attention - aided and abetted by Euforia and my latest (last ever!) tube combo - I'm obviously going to have to make her _equal_ #1...but simply make sure I keep them _well_ apart lol ...

ps. @connieflyer ...your setup must now be truly awesome for film surround especially. I'm rather gutted that I can't position my Tannoys to act as fronts for my own surround system..._tragedy!!_  But at least they can perform surround rear duties.


----------



## chrisdrop

Does the Euforia have a warm up period before optimal use/ sound ? If so - how long? I thought I saw something about this in the preceding thousands of posts...


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 20, 2019)

chrisdrop said:


> Does the Euforia have a warm up period before optimal use/ sound ? If so - how long? I thought I saw something about this in the preceding thousands of posts...



Hi chrisdrop...glad you're pleased with Euforia already. It gets much better yet lol! 

There seem to be different opinions on warm up periods - new amps definitely take longer, but I never found my Elise or Euforia needed any more than about 5 mins to sound good fairly early on. It will also depend on the particular tubes used, and whether they've been very recently changed. But once the amp has adjusted to the same tubes for a reasonable length of time, I personally have found 'optimal' sound comes in even quicker.

This is, however, different to the length of time needed for _burn-in_ of new _tubes._ Some can indeed be a bit disappointing for a good many hours before sounding anywhere near their best...and some - especially old 'NOS' - can even hum for a while and then gradually calm down (if not within a day or 2, then it's likely to be a faulty tube and should be returned ASAP, if possible...assuming the pins are shiny clean and the tube seated properly in its socket).

Edit. ps...Re. hum, this is sometimes down to 'microphonics', which can sometimes be remedied by silicon rings or self-amalgamating tape around the tube. But I personally regard a badly microphonic tube as _*faulty*_, and if recently purchased would return it forthwith!!


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Does the Euforia have a warm up period before optimal use/ sound ? If so - how long? I thought I saw something about this in the preceding thousands of posts...


My personal experience has been that once the amp has been burned in, the time needed for optimal performance depends on the tubes you are using. Some tubes may need 30 minutes or so to perform at their best (I am speaking of tubes that are burned in already), others 5-10 minutes.
Burn in period for the amp when new could be 100-150 hours, and for most new tubes 30-50 hours, but some tubes continue to improve long after that.


----------



## chrisdrop

Hey @hypnos1 - thanks much. This Euforia belonged to another HeadFier. The stock "gold" tubes and 2xEL11 + 2xEL39 tubes (that you were also kind enough to comment on the other day, (perhaps even your adapters if I understand correctly?)) have been used tens of hours. They all seem to be functioning correctly, thankfully.

I thought the sound changed across the first few minutes but couldn't tell if it was real or perceived. Sounds like it could have been real. (Not crazy after all). 

Thanks again for (and expect more of) some beginner question indulgence.


----------



## Johnnysound

connieflyer said:


> I was an flight electronic technician on this aircraft for many years. Best years of my life, other than marriage of course!



The famous Constellation !  Is it true that H. Hugues designed it as they say in “The Aviator” movie ?


----------



## connieflyer

Hi Johnyxound, that is an old myth. It was designed by Me?ly Johnson, And area others. Howard Hughes was the head of American airlines back then and gave them performance needs. It was designed 1937 to 1939 was faster than a JPanese Zero fighter at 375 mph,cruised at 24000 ft. She holds the propeller driven longest cruise at  23 hours 19 minutes 5300 milles had the same wing as a p38 except bigger


----------



## DecentLevi

chrisdrop said:


> Euforia landed. Stock tubes in to acclimatise 1st and enjoy.
> So far - pleased


Congrats and enjoy Chris. FYI we didn't see your photo. I believe you have to wait until something like 50 posts before the system will allow you to post pictures and links.


----------



## chrisdrop

Tx @DecentLevi. Certainly enjoying so far - including at this moment !

I didn't know that the forum would show pics to me and hide them to the rest. Silly. The forum should just have prevented the post!  Oh well. 

A picture may be worth 1k words and all, but in this case I will give you a mental image of the hidden picture that you may be familiar with. It is a Euforia . New to me, not so to most on this thread!


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## LoryWiv (Sep 21, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> ... these pieces were intended for large concert hall listening, and the experience is one that headphones simply can't replicate in the same way. But still..._vive la difference!_
> 
> *I had a chance to see a spectacular performance of Romeo and Juliet by the San Francisco Opera in excellent seats 2 evenings ago. I am a "headphone guy" preferentially but there are times when the ambience, room acoustics and emotion of a large space filled with glorious music cannot be duplicated. There is also the shared experience of music with others that headphones preclude. Ironically, in some ways this world class orchestra and singers sounded "off" to me when compared to the "in your head" immediacy and intimacy I am accustomed to from headphones, illustrating that "brain burn in" and expectation bias can influence our perceptions. But in the end, it's wonderful to have choices, and as @hypnos1 notes: vive la difference!*


----------



## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> Hey @hypnos1 - thanks much. This Euforia belonged to another HeadFier. The stock "gold" tubes and 2xEL11 + 2xEL39 tubes (that you were also kind enough to comment on the other day, (perhaps even your adapters if I understand correctly?)) have been used tens of hours. They all seem to be functioning correctly, thankfully.
> 
> I thought the sound changed across the first few minutes but couldn't tell if it was real or perceived. Sounds like it could have been real. (Not crazy after all).
> 
> Thanks again for (and expect more of) some beginner question indulgence.



Well chris, all I can say is..._WELL DONE, you've jumped straight to the head of the queue lol!_  It's taken me years to get to this point...lucky you!!  (And yes, those EL39 adapters are my own concoction...).

ps. When changing to EL tubes after stock configuration, I personally found it took a good hour or so before the sound came properly right. The amp has to do a bit of readjusting! And those EL39s especially will still need quite a few more hours before giving of their best...mine have continued to do so _well_ over the 150 hr mark! And if the EL11s were NOS when bought, they too will continue to improve for a good while yet...so the future looks bright, mon ami ...ENJOY!  CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## ZRW0

Well I guess Chris' picture might present an Euforia in pristine state, with a white arrow sticker on the volume knob. If this last detail can help recall about someone 
(Yes the EL11 were NOS, and barely used)


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Well I guess Chris' picture might present an Euforia in pristine state, with a white arrow sticker on the volume knob. If this last detail can help recall about someone
> (Yes the EL11 were NOS, and barely used)



Hi Erwan...hope you're enjoying things in your new playground!  And by the way, won't be offended if you mention out of interest (briefly lol! ) your new bringer of joy......Best...CJ

ps. As those EL11s are also hardly burned in, @chrisdrop is definitely in for a very pleasant surprise in the not _too_ distant future. And glad such a setup has gone to someone happy to join us all here ...


----------



## connieflyer

Good morning h, things seem to be going along quite well on the thread. As to the picture not showing up arm my system it did! Don't know why one would and one wouldn't button backtracking this morning I see that it is no longer visible. So for whatever reason things change. Speaking of change was watching a movie last night on the net and that it hung up and thought well I've got plenty of bandwidth what's going on wouldn't restart couldn't get out wooden check the setup in my router died. First one I've had died on me ever, not pleasant when you're figuring that's what you're going to do for a while. Got one coming in tomorrow but for now just used my phone. Hope all is well with you


----------



## ZRW0

Ok, so here are a few words about my "new bringer of joy" 

1. with some set of tubes, it can glow blue

 
2. with the same set of tubes, it can be a great headphone amp (but the Euforia might still be superior actually)
3. with yet another correct set of tubes, as a loud speaker amp, we learned today it could outperform a SS amp of 5x its price... (hint for the tubes used: have a look to my new avatar)

Cheers,

Erwan.


----------



## hypnos1

Hi LW.

In similar vein to your concert experience, swapping back and forth between hall-like speaker sound and headphones can indeed sometimes have the poor ol' brain wondering what to make of it all lol!  The experience is indeed quite different in many ways. In addition to the different_ presentation_ of the music, we also experience different states of _mind _while listening. An 'altered state' (or mild _hypnosis_) usually happens in both cases, but the 'mass crowd' effect is subtly different to the one induced while listening alone, and with the greater immediacy of headphones. The former can take on an even stronger quality in more 'excited' (mass hysteria!) performances - think rock concerts or 'Last Night of the Proms for example, but headphone listening can also heighten the state when deeply engrossed in a very emotional piece, for example. In addition, a masterful recording engineer/producer has some very useful 'tricks' for enhancing the listener's joy, and aimed precisely at deepening said altered mind state...like surprise/distraction via unexpected positioning of sound elements - the off-balancing 'where did that come from' - or the classic exaggerated, repeated panning from side to side. These two alone are prime, much more effective tools for making the hp experience a good bit different from the concert hall or speakers.

But whatever, _both _have their unique attractions to music lovers, and we all here are fortunate in having an amp that can deliver joy in both ways...and, of course, the better the headphones and speakers (not to mention power amp!), the better the overall experience ...


----------



## chrisdrop

ZRW0 said:


> Ok, so here are a few words about my "new bringer of joy"
> 
> 1. with some set of tubes, it can glow blue
> 
> ...


Very pretty. I hope you are enjoying. 
... and I am glad I was able to benefit from your "new bringer of joy"!


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## LoryWiv (Sep 21, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> In similar vein to your concert experience, swapping back and forth between hall-like speaker sound and headphones can indeed sometimes have the poor ol' brain wondering what to make of it all lol!  The experience is indeed quite different in many ways. In addition to the different_ presentation_ of the music, we also experience different states of _mind _while listening. An 'altered state' (or mild _hypnosis_) usually happens in both cases, but the 'mass crowd' effect is subtly different to the one induced while listening alone, and with the greater immediacy of headphones. The former can take on an even stronger quality in more 'excited' (mass hysteria!) performances - think rock concerts or 'Last Night of the Proms for example, but headphone listening can also heighten the state when deeply engrossed in a very emotional piece, for example. In addition, a masterful recording engineer/producer has some very useful 'tricks' for enhancing the listener's joy, and aimed precisely at deepening said altered mind state...like surprise/distraction via unexpected positioning of sound elements - the off-balancing 'where did that come from' - or the classic exaggerated, repeated panning from side to side. These two alone are prime, much more effective tools for making the hp experience a good bit different from the concert hall or speakers.
> 
> But whatever, _both _have their unique attractions to music lovers, and we all here are fortunate in having an amp that can deliver joy in both ways...and, of course, the better the headphones and speakers (not to mention power amp!), the better the overall experience ...


Very well said, @hypnos1 and spot on. The opera was for my wife's birthday. Next month it will be The Who for mine (belated). I've already ordered some musician's earplugs to attenuate 23 dB w/o too much disruption across the  frequency spectrum....unlike my Elise I'm pretty sure there will be no volume knob at the venue. 

OK, I'll get back on topic. Thanks to the kindness and courtesy of @connieflyer I will be doing some serious tube rolling this weekend. I will  post my listening impressions in the Elise thread for those interested.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good morning h, things seem to be going along quite well on the thread. As to the picture not showing up arm my system it did! Don't know why one would and one wouldn't button backtracking this morning I see that it is no longer visible. So for whatever reason things change. Speaking of change was watching a movie last night on the net and that it hung up and thought well I've got plenty of bandwidth what's going on wouldn't restart couldn't get out wooden check the setup in my router died. First one I've had died on me ever, not pleasant when you're figuring that's what you're going to do for a while. Got one coming in tomorrow but for now just used my phone. Hope all is well with you



Ah well cf...computers and routers - like cars - are great while they're working, but when they don't...!!!***%%%...Hope your new router does indeed arrive..._on a Sunday lol!!...GOOD LUCK!..CJ
_
ps. Despite the temporary hiccough, I wish you - and all folks here in F-A land, a great weekend. Given I can't entice my other half out of the house this weekend, it'll be just headphone listening I'm afraid...but not actually _too _upset about that!!  Especially as something rather strange has happened...since giving a good blast via the pre-amp output (with cans detached, of course!), either my left ear is suddenly behaving itself, or perfect balance has returned and the extra signal to the left channel has raised performance quite noticeably..._weird!!_ (Will try this again if necessary in future, even if it's just pure coincidence lol ).

ps. With my Vincent SS amp, any volume control level on Euforia much above about 12 o'clock creates distortion...but no problem, I simply up Vincent's vol!! ...HAPPY LISTENING, ALL!...CJ


----------



## triggsviola

ZRW0 said:


> Ok, so here are a few words about my "new bringer of joy"
> 
> 1. with some set of tubes, it can glow blue
> 
> ...


What is that? A primaluna?


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Ok, so here are a few words about my "new bringer of joy"
> 
> 1. with some set of tubes, it can glow blue
> 
> ...



Oooohhh Erwan...tres joli!! I just _luuuv_ blue!! 

My only regret in years of tube hunting for our amps is that I haven't found one that glows such a lovely blue colour, and that we can use safely . Ah well, never mind...I firmly believe that the EL39 and 'special' Mazda/Dario EL38 have taken Euforia especially to a level that few can match anywhere near the price. And as you intimate, I'm sure few 'super' integrated tube amps either can surpass such a _dedicated _headphone amp lol . But I bet your PrimaLuna Evo 200 sure is one _demon_ integrated!! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 21, 2019)

Some good news for 1-2 users here...


The source I bought 2x EL39 from (an eBay-er in Spain) as shown above told me he has 4 more! So as soon as I confirm the details I will let you folks know. Read first however:

I got his two EL39's last week and was super impressed - all I had to do was wipe the dust off with a damp rag (and use superglue to reinforce both the top cap and the base with the glass), and these are truly NOS - pure, unused in immaculate condition! However one did not light up and I noticed a broken shard of metal floating around in the tube in question. So after sending a photo of the defect, he offered me either a refund or replacement, no problem. And that's when he also told me they have 4x more! By that time I already happened to locate another single EL39, which for some reason although on eBay didn't show up until I searched via HifiShark. I've got a total of 4x now and want to share the love a bit.

I don't think he has a way to test the tubes so this would come with a _risk _of some being potentially DOA. But I think it's worth the risk being NOS and only USD $77 a piece, and an option to refund if defective.

Whoever is interested post here and I will try to get you in touch with this offer. However I want it to go only to 1-2 members of this thread. So is there any way I can recommend the seller a way to list it as a "private" sale on eBay so only those with the link can see it?

PS - I'd prefer to refer these only to someone who hasn't had the EL39 yet to give them a chance.


----------



## mordy

chrisdrop said:


> Tx @DecentLevi. Certainly enjoying so far - including at this moment !
> 
> I didn't know that the forum would show pics to me and hide them to the rest. Silly. The forum should just have prevented the post!  Oh well.
> 
> A picture may be worth 1k words and all, but in this case I will give you a mental image of the hidden picture that you may be familiar with. It is a Euforia . New to me, not so to most on this thread!


I saw the picture with the whiter triangle on the volume control - at first I thought it was a video!


----------



## triggsviola (Sep 21, 2019)

So I bought some EL38s off of eBay just to see what all the fuss is about. They came from a guy in Cyprus! He said they were Mullard but they said CV450 KB/DA. I put them in and they work. The bass seems to be very energetic and the treble seems a bit attenuated compared to the stock 6AS7Gs. I'm intrigued by the difference in sound but not sure I like it yet. I'm using the stock CV181s as drivers. If I can find another pair for this cheap I might use them as drivers. Do the EL38s need to be a matched quad in this case?

I also find I have to turn the volume louder with these tubes than the stock ones. Anyone else notice?


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 23, 2019)

..


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Oooohhh Erwan...tres joli!! I just _luuuv_ blue!!
> 
> My only regret in years of tube hunting for our amps is that I haven't found one that glows such a lovely blue colour, and that we can use safely . Ah well, never mind...I firmly believe that the EL39 and 'special' Mazda/Dario EL38 have taken Euforia especially to a level that few can match anywhere near the price. And as you intimate, I'm sure few 'super' integrated tube amps either can surpass such a _dedicated _headphone amp lol . But I bet your PrimaLuna Evo 200 sure is one _demon_ integrated!! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ



Hi CJ,

The blue glowing tubes are TungSol (Russia) nowadays production 7581A. 
Those are pentodes, drawing 0.9A current. 
Given your valve adapter crafting skills, I don't see what could prevent you to give them a try on the Euforia 

Regards,

Erwan.


----------



## ZRW0

triggsviola said:


> What is that? A primaluna?



Could be :-D


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> So I bought some EL38s off of eBay just to see what all the fuss is about. They came from a guy in Cyprus! He said they were Mullard but they said CV450 KB/DA. I put them in and they work. The bass seems to be very energetic and the treble seems a bit attenuated compared to the stock 6AS7Gs. I'm intrigued by the difference in sound but not sure I like it yet. I'm using the stock CV181s as drivers. If I can find another pair for this cheap I might use them as drivers. Do the EL38s need to be a matched quad in this case?
> 
> I also find I have to turn the volume louder with these tubes than the stock ones. Anyone else notice?



Hi triggs. The Mullard CV450 is indeed the military version EL38.

And it certainly sounds like they haven't had much use, if any lol. If NOS especially, it will be  quite a while yet before the bass and treble particularly settle down, and the overall presentation become more balanced, along with much better separation/placement and wider/more 3 dimensional soundstage. They definitely won't shine until at least 50 hours' use, and then continue to improve well past the 150 hrs mark!

They do partner especially well with other EL family drivers, but the CV181s should also do a good job once the EL38s are burned in some more. Four EL38s can indeed be a very good combination, but as usual, the end result will depend upon the rest of one's system/ears/ personal preference!

Hopefully, with time - and becoming accustomed to differences in presentation, you will see more clearly just what these tubes can deliver . But again, your own experience is your own lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Of course, different experiences, but take into account that you are driving your HPs as transducers *directly*  from a tube amp,  moreover an OTL amp, utterly pure  with no output transformer to smear the sound !   On the other hand, even with Euforia as preamp, your speakers are driven by an ss amp, so no matter how good your ss amp might be, the overall sound of speakers would be  below HPs in terms of organic ”musicality” (to use this term). With a good tube  power amp, things are much closer...the speakers sound like tubes, not like solid state, and the organic sound  of Euforia is just right there, but amplified.  In fact, Euforia drives ss amps much more easily than tube amps.   It simply dominates ss amps sound in my experience, but had a much tougher time partnering with my Jolida Fusion, specially when the PA was fitted with 4xEL39s or 4xEL38s as power pentodes.
> 
> And I mean it, because this power amp has an optional  preamp incorporated, one with 2x12AX7s plus 2X12AT7s that may look simple, but it is the 15th iteration  of the same  circuit,  and believe me, simpler is better in audio. Of course, I rolled in the absolute best tubes of these types, and for the first time ever, Euforia was surpassed in terms of tight  bass and detail...briefly.   The arrival of the EL39s as powers, plus the Valvos (or RFT) as drivers returned Euforia to the top of the list. The refined,confident, airy and  relaxed sound of the preamp was clearly superior.   Frankly, it is a lot of fun to be able to compare Euforia “A/B” as a preamp against “holy grail” preamp tubes.  Just rest assured that if these are “holy grail” tubes then Euforia must be the lost Ark !!



Ah, J...the old _OTL vs SET_ amp debate lol! I must admit, it would seem if going for an output trafo, it needs to be a _really_ top class (= _very_ expensive) one. But I personally would still prefer being able to 'fine tune' the sound with different power(output) tubes...which, IMHO, can have a far greater impact than often regarded .

And it gladdens my heart to hear of your comparison between Euforia as preamp (with the EL tubes you mention) and 'holy grail' units .

ps. Your mention of the 'Lost Ark' certainly has me suspecting myself as the 'Raider'...when it comes to 'alternative' tubes at least lol!


----------



## chrisdrop (Sep 22, 2019)

Hello all

As some of you will know @ZRW0 was kind enough to sell me his pristine Euforia. He and I have been doing a bit of hair-pulling today. When I started my day today, I noticed (with the stock tubes) a faint hum starting around 30 seconds after the amp was powered on before I started playing music. Everyone I had read about the Euforia was that it was "black". Yesterday was my first day of real/ substantial use. I didn't notice the hum yesterday, but I am not sure I had many moments with headphones on and music off. I would often take the headphones off while no music. If I were to guess, it was there the whole time, but hard to say. I/ we have spent the day back/ forth with ZRW0 working to track down what the heck is causing the issue. Notwithstanding our valiant efforts, the evil hum is still present and we thought to post to this group for any collective wisdom!

A synopsis of things tried. Most experiments are with the stock tubes, except for the 1 experiment with other tubes...

I unplugged, let cool, and picked up the Euforia. I brought it in another room and plugged in (and nothing else) to the wall socket, then headphones into it, same hum. No DAC, RCA cables, etc. Nothing. Just Euforia in to wall, headphones into it. There aren't really even any other electronics in the room. 

Let it play for a few hours - see if it goes away.
It has an EU AC chord. I am in the UK. I was using a EU to UK plug adapter. I replaced that with a standard PC cable in the Euforia. Same hum.
Changed tubes for alt tubes (which ZRW0 used more commonly than stock). These had a louder hum in left ear. Possible the stock tubes are only left side. It is hard to say because it is more faint.
Asked 17 yo son to see if he heard anything. Unprompted he heard the faint hum with the stock tubes. (I am not totally nuts!). He did say it was faint, but audible after the 30 second mark there was a clear change.
The sound persists at 0 or any volume - invariant to volume setting.
Put in room away from wifi
Remove mobile phone from area
Swap L<->R tubes
FYI:
headset is a ZMF Eikon - 300 ohms.
the amp sounds good with stock tubes, while music is playing. It is not black when no music is playing. It can be clearly heard to go from true silent to hum ~30 sec post turning the amp on.
the amp sounds good with the other tubes, except when the music is quieter (can hear the hum) or when music is off (can hear hum).
the amp was shipped in 100% cottonwool. It was wrapped, double wrapped, bubbled, double boxed, etc. There were 8 tubes in the box, none of them broke. If the box was jostled harshly I would have expected one of them to broken. I think the shipping was 100% fine.

The most compelling evidence of an issue is heard with the alt tubes, which @ZRW0 used mostly. With them, the hum in the left ear is much more discernible. There is no way it was present and he didn't hear it. As such, I am trying to hunt down a solution prior to engaging Feliks, shipping the amp, etc.

Humbly; I am a noob with a tube. I will be happily embarrassed when this is sorted because of something dumb in my environment (he says hopefully!).

Any collective wisdom (flails even!) would be appreciated.

Best,
Chris


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi CJ,
> 
> The blue glowing tubes are TungSol (Russia) nowadays production 7581A.
> Those are pentodes, drawing 0.9A current.
> ...



Hmmm, mon ami...you obviously realise that such a blue glow is the only thing that just _might_ possibly draw me out of retirement lol! ...not to mention the rave reviews I've come across . I will give this serious consideration Erwan, to be sure...in the _hope_ our poor amps can work wonders once again with 'foreign' tubes!! (But I shall know who to blame if they blow my long-suffering amp to pieces!!! )....Sante...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

chrisdrop said:


> Hello all
> 
> As some of you will know @ZRW0 was kind enough to sell me his pristine Euforia. He and I have been doing a bit of hair-pulling today. When I started my day today, I noticed (with the stock tubes) a faint hum starting around 30 seconds after the amp was powered on before I started playing music. Everyone I had read about the Euforia was that it was "black". Yesterday was my first day of real/ substantial use. I didn't notice the hum yesterday, but I am not sure I had many moments with headphones on and music off. I would often take the headphones off while no music. If I were to guess, it was there the whole time, but hard to say. I/ we have spent the day back/ forth with ZRW0 working to track down what the heck is causing the issue. Notwithstanding our valiant efforts, the evil hum is still present and we thought to post to this group for any collective wisdom!
> 
> ...


You mention: "Remove mobile phone from area." For me, it was not a cellular mobile phone at issue but a cordless landline, even when base unit was at in another room. Removed all phones from the room where amp is --> problem solved! I hope it works out quickly so you can get back to just enjoying your amp.


----------



## ZRW0

chrisdrop said:


> Hello all
> 
> As some of you will know @ZRW0 was kind enough to sell me his pristine Euforia. He and I have been doing a bit of hair-pulling today. When I started my day today, I noticed (with the stock tubes) a faint hum starting around 30 seconds after the amp was powered on before I started playing music. Everyone I had read about the Euforia was that it was "black". Yesterday was my first day of real/ substantial use. I didn't notice the hum yesterday, but I am not sure I had many moments with headphones on and music off. I would often take the headphones off while no music. If I were to guess, it was there the whole time, but hard to say. I/ we have spent the day back/ forth with ZRW0 working to track down what the heck is causing the issue. Notwithstanding our valiant efforts, the evil hum is still present and we thought to post to this group for any collective wisdom!
> 
> ...


Just to add to Chris comment, I've been using as much 6SN7/6ASG7 and EL tubes on this amp. For the EL tubes, I mostly used EL38/EL32 combo. 
The EL11 and EL39 were barely used as I found in love of my new amp shortly after the acquisitions of those. They are both less than 50h usage for what concerns me hence near NOS (all bought as NOS).

What really puzzles me is that constant humming Chris is hearing whether the stock tubes or the El tubes are used. I never got any hum with any of those tubes on my side...
The Euforia and the tubes were not used for about 1,5m before I sent them to Chris.


----------



## chrisdrop

LoryWiv said:


> You mention: "Remove mobile phone from area." For me, it was not a cellular mobile phone at issue but a cordless landline, even when base unit was at in another room. Removed all phones from the room where amp is --> problem solved! I hope it works out quickly so you can get back to just enjoying your amp.



Tx LW. I appreciate the note. No land line phones here (sadly in this case). Just got done powering down the wifi and computers in the whole house! No luck yet. Going to try going across the house and see what happens there..


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 22, 2019)

@chrisdrop here's 4 more suggestions. And for the first two you'd need to make an extra purchase but they may be well worth it, especially the 2nd one:

@mordy I think it was you who recommended some sort of high-temperature adhesive tape that can reduce hum on tubes?

You can also try a power conditioner, or more compact isolating power strip. Some members here recently had gained positive results with power conditioning - sonic improvements and as these isolate from EMI / RFI this may well solve the problem, as well as improve the sound. I have their top model IT Reference 15i and though I've still yet to do a thorough A/ B, the brief test I did revealed a true night / day improvement for all aspects of the sound on the Euforia. Here are their more compact options as power strips, however these may be only for 120v. And their AC-210A E is for 240.
https://www.furmanpower.com/products/compact-power-120v

Touch one of the RCA outputs on the back of the Euforia. If the hum stops, then just wrap a wire around that RCA socket to a ground that may work such as a windowsill or out of the window to a large nail in the dirt, depending on which works best.

You can also try other tubes to see which have less hum.

PS - you should be free to post pix now


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> @chrisdrop here's 4 more suggestions. And for the first two you'd need to make an extra purchase but they may be well worth it, especially the 2nd one:
> 
> @mordy I think it was you who recommended some sort of high-temperature adhesive tape that can reduce hum on tubes?
> 
> ...





DecentLevi said:


> @chrisdrop here's 4 more suggestions. And for the first two you'd need to make an extra purchase but they may be well worth it, especially the 2nd one:
> 
> @mordy I think it was you who recommended some sort of high-temperature adhesive tape that can reduce hum on tubes?
> 
> ...


It seems to me the Chrisdrop is describing hum from the amp itself and not from a tube. You could try to ground the amp to a metal water pipe or such, but I never had luck with it.
Sometimes a different electrical outlet helps - RFI could come from various appliances, lights and electric motors.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 22, 2019)

UH Oh, a bit of bad news on the 4x EL39's I said are coming up. The seller posted the ad but upon checking they are the red band version - *NOT* RECOMMENDED per @hypnos1 unless I could be wrong?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383167291499?ViewItem=&item=383167291499&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123


----------



## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> Tx LW. I appreciate the note. No land line phones here (sadly in this case). Just got done powering down the wifi and computers in the whole house! No luck yet. Going to try going across the house and see what happens there..



Hi chris...this really is too cruel! And the bane of existence for quite a few audio enthusiasts, especially tube amp lovers alas!

When not down to the tubes, there's a whole host of things in one's mains electricity chain that can be the cause, from 'ground loops' to 'phones and 'fridges.

1. Anything electrical in the house that's running at the same time needs to be switched *off*, to eliminate them as cause...including routers and mobile 'phones.
2. If no change, try the amp in another property...preferably in a different vicinity.

Assuming all cables, plugs, connections are 100% and hum remains, then it's possibly the mains supply itself that's the cause...either in the house wiring or much further back in the supply! I personally always had a slight hum that went when the music signal kicked in, and only went completely when I used a PowerInspired Mains Regenerator, then an AirlinksTransformer Conditioning Balanced Mains Transformer. I would recommend the latter, if interested - I myself splashed out on the one with added advanced filter system, but this one should be perfectly fine and a good bit cheaper : https://airlinktransformers.com/product/conditioning-balanced-power-supply-cbs2000-240

I really do hope you soon find the cause and solution chris...let us know how things go...GOOD LUCK!


----------



## ZRW0 (Sep 23, 2019)

mordy said:


> It seems to me the Chrisdrop is describing hum from the amp itself and not from a tube. You could try to ground the amp to a metal water pipe or such, but I never had luck with it.
> Sometimes a different electrical outlet helps - RFI could come from various appliances, lights and electric motors.


Yes, I fully agree with you Mordy.

I already told Chris the hum that he was hearing was very likely coming from the power supply of the Euforia, that he was "hearing the 50hz AC", and very unlikely coming from the tubes. The hum at Volume 0 is a good indicator of that.

What really puzzles me (and even embarasses me), is that my home is not very EMI friendly either (Strong Wi-Fi, DECT landline, cell phones...), and the Euforia neither hummed with the stock tubes nor with the EL tubes I sold to @chrisdrop .

Yesterday, I was thinking about a ground loop between his DAC and the amp (seems Chris' DAC isn't grounded, but I've been using a Hugo2 for a while which isn't grounded either - but from USB connection, maybe - and never hit this issue), but Crhis seems to have some humming whatever is connected to Euforia's inputs...
Could the Euforia's journey between the French Alps and London have impacted the power supply or any other internal component ? (airplane pressure acting on condensators ? But I'm not even sure the amp took the airplane actually)


----------



## mordy

Whatever the problem with the hum is, if you persist you will be able to fix it.
Did you try plugging it in in a different house?


----------



## chrisdrop

Tx all for the supporting guidance. I am going to take it to my office tomorrow to see on a totally different power setup and see what happens there.

Notwithstanding the hum, so far I love the thing!


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Yes, I fully agree with you Mordy.
> 
> I already told Chris the hum that he was hearing was very likely coming from the power supply of the Euforia, that he was "hearing the 50hz AC", and very unlikely coming from the tubes. The hum at Volume 0 is a good indicator of that.
> 
> ...



Hi Erwan...there's always the _possibility_ of damage in transit of course, but this seems to be a rare occurrence, thank goodness! 
A serious contender as culprit is still IMHO the mains electricity supply, if nothing in the house is playing gremlin lol . Especially as sometimes here in the UK our mains voltage can vary quite a bit from 'pure' 240V, and if _over_ this figure can possibly create problems in sensitive equipment that's manufactured to *230V* spec...which is your mains voltage in France, non?



chrisdrop said:


> Tx all for the supporting guidance. I am going to take it to my office tomorrow to see on a totally different power setup and see what happens there.
> 
> Notwithstanding the hum, so far I love the thing!



Hi chris...another location should indeed help to eliminate things further..._hopefully!!_ ...GOOD LUCK tomorrow!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> UH Oh, a bit of bad news on the 4x EL39's I said are coming up. The seller posted the ad but upon checking they are the red band version - *NOT* RECOMMENDED per @hypnos1 unless I could be wrong?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/383167291499?ViewItem=&item=383167291499&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123



Yo DL...according to the French enthusiasts' blog, the version with _red _band is _not_ in the same league as the later _silver_ banded one - the so-called 'ProGold', with the gold signal grid wires. So I trust their judgment lol!


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Erwan...there's always the _possibility_ of damage in transit of course, but this seems to be a rare occurrence, thank goodness!
> A serious contender as culprit is still IMHO the mains electricity supply, if nothing in the house is playing gremlin lol . Especially as sometimes here in the UK our mains voltage can vary quite a bit from 'pure' 240V, and if _over_ this figure can possibly create problems in sensitive equipment that's manufactured to *230V* spec...which is your mains voltage in France, non?


Si ! (same as you guys in UK)
On the paper, EDF (the historical and principal electricity provider in France) writes down in its contracts that the 230v they provide can vary in a significant way: from +6% to -10%.
I'd say that such variations are rare to my knowledge, and can be seen when living rather in the countryside than in a town.
In cities, it's relatively stable and close (but a bit below) 230v (until the late 80s the standard voltage in France was 220v).


----------



## chrisdrop

OK. Latest update on my Euforia hum. Short story .

New experiments attempted: all with just amp + headphones + tubes. No other DAC, etc needs to be plugged in to hear the hum. (The buzz is certainly there w/ DAC, etc, but wanted to factor out to minimal components.)

Moved whole setup to my office. Entirely different power setup. Room with nothing, closed door, no phones, etc. Institutional London City building. Same hum.
Try expensive Chord power cable. Same hum.
iFi AC iPurifier. Same hum. 
Moving to my office seems a convincing evidence that there is a core issue. Given that the issue exists in different buildings with different power setups, different ambient electronics, I think it is an amp issue. It could be that it is insanely sensitive to any power setup? There are probably 1/6 dozen (all solid state) headphone setups (amp, DAC, or mobile like Mojo) at my office and there are no problems like this. The hum is worse with the set of tubes (ELs). It is certainly there with the stock tubes.  If it was just in the stock tubes, my wife would say I was being picky. I think anyone _here_ would say it was not right. The ELs are really buzzy however - not black at all. 

So - any other ideas, aside from giving it a shipment to Feliks? The only other thing would be to try a power conditioner, which may be good in the long run, but if it has the issue in my home and my office, it seems like it would happen anywhere? 

Thanks again for hearing my sob story and offering ideas. 

Best
Chris


----------



## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> OK. Latest update on my Euforia hum. Short story .
> 
> New experiments attempted: all with just amp + headphones + tubes. No other DAC, etc needs to be plugged in to hear the hum. (The buzz is certainly there w/ DAC, etc, but wanted to factor out to minimal components.)
> 
> ...



Hi Chris.

This is just too cruel! It looks like you've done everything humanly possible to trace the cause, and so as your amp must still be under warranty, it would appear your next recourse must be to let Lukasz know at : info@feliksaudio.pl , giving him all the details of what you've tried so far (of course!). Given that all was fine with Erwan, presumably you have been very unlucky indeed with something happening during transit.

It does appear that F-A have been having their usual _long_ Summer break...along with their interim auto messaging of such to any enquiries!! (if they ever managed to fix it after previous malfunction lol!). I myself am still awaiting reply...

I'm so sorry you're having a less-than-ideal start to your time with Euforia, but hang in there and I'm sure this (frustrating!) hiccough will have a fairly simple remedy.

Sympathy and best wishes go to you Chris....CJ


----------



## ZRW0

Well, I confess I'm quite embarrassed by the situation too.
And if I had detected anything, I'd had for sure sent my Euforia back to Poland for a good revision before selling it...
Let's see how things go with Lukasz, and what has become faulty in this amp.
This might be instructive for others here as well.


----------



## chrisdrop

To be 100% clear; @ZRW0 - you have been great. I am certain that you had no issues with this amp and would have done as you say. Your help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Well, I confess I'm quite embarrassed by the situation too.
> And if I had detected anything, I'd had for sure sent my Euforia back to Poland for a good revision before selling it...
> Let's see how things go with Lukasz, and what has become faulty in this amp.
> This might be instructive for others here as well.



Hey Erwan...these things happen on the odd occasion, so not your fault lol . I must admit that tube amps have proved much more 'challenging' than solid state...have lost count of the number of times I've had to take a deep breath with mine over the years! And have certainly come to appreciate the need for _super_ patience!! But usually all comes right in the end, as I'm sure it will for Chris .


----------



## DecentLevi

EL39 sale alert. 5 days remaining on Yahoo JP auction, with two extra rare bonus tubes that may / not be compatible
http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=j593943496#enlargeimg


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> EL39 sale alert. 5 days remaining on Yahoo JP auction, with two extra rare bonus tubes that may / not be compatible
> http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=j593943496#enlargeimg



Hmmmm...haven't had any experience of this particular Japanese auction site, and from what I can glean from the various info links there seems to be quite a lot one needs to take carefully into account lol! Note also the $65 to $68 shipping charge!!  Plus a Yahoo auction fee and 'Consumption' Tax? I'll stick to ebay, with its very good buyer protection these days thanks!


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Ok, so here are a few words about my "new bringer of joy"
> 
> 1. with some set of tubes, it can glow blue
> 
> ...





ZRW0 said:


> Hi CJ,
> 
> The blue glowing tubes are TungSol (Russia) nowadays production 7581A.
> Those are pentodes, drawing 0.9A current.
> ...



Eh bien Erwan, looks like you'll either be in the 'dog house' or possibly the harbinger of a power tube to beat anything else at 2 to 3+ times the price lol!! 

From all the rave reviews about this (ridiculously) cheap reissue (Russian) Tung Sol tube - not to mention that gorgeous *blue* glow lol! - I just can't resist the temptation to see if my Euforia can pull yet another rabbit out of the bag and welcome the 7581A aboard . 

Assuming all is indeed well when plugged in - and that it performs superbly and _safely_ - this could turn out to be a wonderful alternative tube for intrepid pioneers out there. At about $42 the *pair* (in USA), and an obviously plentiful supply, it would be a no-brainer!. 

This is all conjecture at the moment of course, but certainly worth a try...especially as a simple link/strap in my EL39 adapter's socket should be all that's necessary lol .
One thing though, I doubt it will have quite the same degree of blue glow unfortunately - Euforia won't be pushing this tube anywhere near as hard as it would be in a power amp. Plus, it might well actually _need_ that much higher plate voltage to perform near its best...so time will tell.......CHEERS!...CJ

ps. And so this could well engender more 'entente cordiale'...or start yet another Anglo-French War lol!! ...
pps. A photo of the incoming protagonists   :


----------



## DecentLevi

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmmm...haven't had any experience of this particular Japanese auction site, and from what I can glean from the various info links there seems to be quite a lot one needs to take carefully into account lol! Note also the $65 to $68 shipping charge!!  Plus a Yahoo auction fee and 'Consumption' Tax? I'll stick to ebay, with its very good buyer protection these days thanks!


I myself have dealt with Yahoo JP auctions a few years ago, with a former W.E. 421A tube and I was very satisfied with the genuine item and excellent shipping and tracking. Yahoo Auctions is one of the oldest, being around for over 20 years and Japan is highly regarded as a country of solid integrity, not to mention a mainstay and innovator of the hi-fi scene and an original manufacturer of headphones, tubes, SS and vintage tube amps. I just thought I'd post the link to give a chance to anyone who's yet to experience the otherworldly prowess of the EL39's and those look like they're in great condition, even a rare brand. Sure shipping is high but the bid currently stands at only at around $10. And I personally don't think I encountered consumption tax from them to the U.S.

No need to wait for me to recommend the next EL39 that may come up. Anyone still looking for a pair feel free to do a simple registration and save a search query on this site so you can get an email notification when the next tube you're after shows up, indexed from numerous sites.
https://www.hifishark.com/


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## Johnnysound (Sep 27, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yo DL...according to the French enthusiasts' blog, the version with _red _band is _not_ in the same league as the later _silver_ banded one - the so-called 'ProGold', with the gold signal grid wires. So I trust their judgment lol!



Most French blogs that I have read (from enthusiasts to true amp builders) were around the EL39s as being superior  to the mythical Mullards EL37s,  in turn regarded as the “ultimate” EL34 type in terms of sound quality...and as so commanding absurdly high prices.  All this as power pentodes of course. On the other hand, certainly  the EL37 (and probably the EL38 as well) were at the time a new dual purpose triode/pentode design, something that is not clear about the EL39...

I do not have EL37s (wish I could) but do have EL34s (old Mullards , Siemens, and new ElectroHarmonix) and all are GREAT sounding tubes in my PA...but a quartet of EL39s is on a higher sonic dimension (maybe the French guys are right). The trademark deep, super nice but kind of loose bass of the 34s was replaced by a strong, deep&tight  bass authority, while retaining the unique, marvelous musicality of the EL34s. Kind of dark at first, and burn in steadily improved  detail and nuance...but within a much more _powerful_  tube than the EL34,  one of  superior bandwidth extension and dynamics.  A true power tube that likes to be heated on and “rock&roll” like hell driving my speakers.

With the EL39s as power triodes in Euforia driving my dual mono NAD ss amps...come on, I _knew_ what was coming:  the most powerful bass & dynamics I have ever heard from my gear...ever.  Of course, CF’s nice ss amp and SVS towers would really _awake _under such an input, as well as H1 gear.  I still wonder why an OTL preamp is the perfect partner for an ss amp.  Have found no answers,  but it is like that anyway.

However , I am under the spell of a full tube setup, and while my ss amps sound & bass was awesome, with such “world class”  power tubes  in my PA I heard even better,  extraordinarily deep & meaningful bass as the foundation of an utterly musical, lovely sound.

About the “red band” EL39s, obviously not the “premium” (silver band) gold grid version, but are they _really_ sonically inferior ?  Only real tests would tell.  The dark glass EL38s have gold grids, while the clear ones have not, and they are very close sonically...


----------



## chrisdrop

OK, proceeding with optimism here...

I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns. 

I looking for recommendations for; good tubes (or tube combos) - that are natively supported (no-adaptor),  that are somewhat available. I am certainly happy to post/ share the resultant sheet of tubes once compiled. I will also track/ include the adaptor tube combos in the sheet, but I am particularly keen to know about the native tubes.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

N.B. I have NOT done the same scouring of forums for the Elise yet. It is possible that something like this exists there too and - if relevant to the Euforia, I'd be very glad to know if it!


----------



## ZRW0

chrisdrop said:


> OK, proceeding with optimism here...
> 
> I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns.
> 
> ...


Based on my past experience with the Euforia:

For powers, I'd definitely recommend Tung-Sol 5998 Chrome Top (the non-chrome top version is actually a rebranded Western Electric 421A, hence a unicorn).
Fast, quite comprehensive in all domains, reliable. Not cheap, yet still relatively easy to find.

For drivers, it's a shame you really exclude adapters, as 7N7 or 6F8G/VT99 were to me probably the best triode drivers for the Euforia.
BTW, the 7N7 is an evolution of the 6SN7 where just the size and length of pins were changed, there's not even a different layout. Here I would have recommended RCA 7N7.
6F8G(or VT99) are officially supported by the Euforia, but require adapters. Here I'd have recommended Ken-Rad VT-99

Still for drivers, without any adapters at all, then Ken-Rad VT-231, but it has started to become a unicorn. Otherwise, Sylvania 6SN7GTB, or Melz 6N8S.


----------



## chrisdrop

ZRW0 said:


> For drivers, it's a shame you really exclude adapters, as 7N7 or 6F8G/VT99 were to me probably the best triode drivers for the Euforia.



Tx @ZRW0. I will certainly include adapters, but I did want to get a picture of some normally supported valves too. I will put these all into my sheet and post on google at some point soon with a link for any other interested bystanders. (I will include the adapter based valve recommends too!)


----------



## mordy

Different minds, different tastes:
I did a lot of tube rolling in the Euforia. Using native tubes (no adapters) the best sound for my taste I got from of a pair of GEC 6080 (not inexpensive) and a pair of 1952-55 Foton 6H8C tubes with ribbed anodes.
BTW, all 7N7 were made by Sylvania (except for National Union - hard to find). Any brand will do - they are all Sylvanias. The rebranded ones are inexpensive if bought right.


----------



## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> OK, proceeding with optimism here...
> 
> I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns.
> 
> ...



Hi Chris.

That's a noble and valiant task you've set yourself, and the sort that can be a useful _guide_ for folks to investigate further. We have indeed covered most configured-for tubes in the (extensive!) Elise threads, and the findings will also apply to Euforia of course! 

For a more general synopsis of the 6SN7, I personally found Brent Jesse's coverage of this tube family to be as good/comprehensive as, if not better than, most out there: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

After years of going from 'straight' tubes to various alternatives requiring adapters, I must admit to finding any particular description of a tube's characteristics as a potential minefield lol!!  The degree of variance from any kind of general 'concensus' can be quite extreme sometimes - frustratingly and confusingly so in fact! Which is no surprise really, given the vital importance of the rest of one's system on final performance...not to mention personal preference. And so any listing of such tubes' characteristics must perforce be qualified accordingly ...GOOD LUCK, mon ami! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 27, 2019)

Hi ZRW0, thanks for mentioning the VT99's I had forgotten about them, used them a lot on the Elise.  Have to pull them out and try them with the EL tubes.  I have found this page useful in the past on 6sn7's as well 
Also agree on Ken-Rad VT-231,and Sylvania 6SN7GTB I still have a pair of these each and always enjoyed them. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/


----------



## hypnos1 (Sep 27, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Most French blogs that I have read (from enthusiasts to true amp builders) were around the EL39s as being superior  to the mythical Mullards EL37s,  in turn regarded as the “ultimate” EL34 type in terms of sound quality...and as so commanding absurdly high prices.  All this as power pentodes of course. On the other hand, certainly  the EL37 (and probably the EL38 as well) were at the time a new dual purpose triode/pentode design, something that is not clear about the EL39...
> 
> I do not have EL37s (wish I could) but do have EL34s (old Mullards , Siemens, and new ElectroHarmonix) and all are GREAT sounding tubes in my PA...but a quartet of EL39s is on a higher sonic dimension (maybe the French guys are right). The trademark deep, super nice but kind of loose bass of the 34s was replaced by a strong, deep&tight  bass authority, while retaining the unique, marvelous musicality of the EL34s. Kind of dark at first, and burn in steadily improved  detail and nuance...but within a much more _powerful_  tube than the EL34,  one of  superior bandwidth extension and dynamics.  A true power tube that likes to be heated on and “rock&roll” like hell driving my speakers.
> 
> ...



We both - and others! - agree on the superlative performance of the EL39. And in my own system (albeit now with a 'special' Mazda EL38 as power partner) and driven by mesh-plated EL11s, I still cannot believe how much better they perform than any other top class tubes I've tried over the years, including 'conventional' ones. Every day I become even more amazed at their performance...no other tube has ever continued in this way, long after the new 'infatuation' phase has passed lol! And as with Euforia herself, this EL39 just keeps upping its game in line with any and all improvements to the rest of one's system.

Re. the _red_-skirted version - which is basically the earlier 4654 but with octal base - the main French blogger that I myself was drawn to was quite emphatic in his obvious dismissal of this tube, compared to the later silver-banded 'ProGold' one. Hence my own reluctance to even see what it _can_ actually do lol ...I shall leave that to anyone else who may be interested!! 

On a different (tube) subject, the rave reviews of the 7581A - after @ZRW0 's enthusiastic urging! - have, however, really piqued my interest. And given that so many users rate this tube a good bit above the EL34, have you ever considered it yourself J? I myself can't wait to see if, first...it'll work in Euforia(!!)... and second (if it does), just how it compares to the EL38 and 39. Should be interesting, whatever lol...

ps. This tube has grid 3 already tied to the cathode, unlike the EL34...CHEERS!...CJ
pps. And yes indeed, given the current prices for the fabled EL3*7*, the price most of us got the EL39s for must surely be the bargain of the century lol!!


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 28, 2019)

True NOS Tungsram EL11 pair...and their nice boxes  that come  factory sealed with metal fasteners (never seen that before) so it was fantastic to take the tubes out from their 60 years plus resting place inside the sealed   boxes...kind of an “Indiana Jones” episode (haha) and sweeet  sounding tubes !! ( even sweeter at less than $20 each).  I found their sound much closer to the Valvos than the TFKs, but somehow different. Construction is also quite different, with medium sized round plates and unique “S” shaped cooling fins.  The TFKs and RFT have big  round plates, while the Valvos are oval...so the Tungsrams are a truly “propietary” version of the EL11...  very interesting.  The classic  hungarian brand is widely  known  for its excellent sounding tubes, so we’ll see what happens after the mandatory burn-in.  So far, I am quite pleased with their sound which is refined, detailed, with very nice bass and overall a touch warmer than other EL11s....and I like it that way.


----------



## Johnnysound (Sep 28, 2019)

..


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## hypnos1 (Sep 28, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> True NOS Tungsram EL11 pair...and their nice boxes  that come  factory sealed with metal fasteners (never seen that before) so it was fantastic to take the tubes out from their 60 years plus resting place inside the sealed   boxes...kind of an “Indiana Jones” episode (haha) and sweeet  sounding tubes !! ( even sweeter at less than $20 each).  I found their sound much closer to the Valvos than the TFKs, but somehow different. Construction is also quite different, with medium sized round plates and unique “S” shaped cooling fins.  The TFKs and RFT have big  round plates, while the Valvos are oval...so the Tungsrams are a truly “propietary” version of the EL11...  very interesting.  The classic  hungarian brand is widely  known  for its excellent sounding tubes, so we’ll see what happens after the mandatory burn-in.  So far, I am quite pleased with their sound which is refined, detailed, with very nice bass and overall a touch warmer than other EL11s....and I like it that way.



Hi J.

These 'Tungsram' labelled EL11s do seem to have very interesting provenance lol! There are those with bottles just like the TFK/RFT, but mine are of a different design, having a straight middle section before curving back down to the base, as can be seen below  :



Now, one has the Tungsram logo etched into the top of the tube... the other no logo at all, but sold described as a 'Valvo' and in a Valvo box! Both have the Philips-design large _oval _plate, as per the usual Valvo EL11... and EL3N , which would explain their slightly warmer character than the TFK-design versions. It's interesting that you say your own T/rams have _round_ plates, J, albeit smaller than the German design...

As usual, there was obviously 'fraternisation'/relabelling between different factories..all designed to confuse us poor hobbyists no doubt lol!! 

Whatever, they sound excellent...every bit as good as any other EL11 - apart from the uber-rare _mesh_ (woven)-plated versions!


And re. the 7581A power tube, from the user reviews I've read it seems this Russian reissue version is preferred over most others of the 6L6GC family, and certainly much cheaper lol!  And which has got my juices flowing quite nicely...just hope I'm not in for a bitter disappointment. But then, this can come with the territory, unfortunately....

ps. As an adjunct to this experiment, if all goes well, I notice that vacuumtubes.com had a re-constructed tube using the 7581A internals of the Philips/ECG (Sylvania) version, and called the '6BG6GA', but with the anode taken to a top cap. Now, given that this method so often results in a superior-performing tube - eg. the EL12 Spezial; EL38/39 etc. - I'm hoping that this could also be a possible winner (if they still have any!)...so fingers _and _toes crossed this time!

And while on the top anode cap subject, it is what could possibly once again explain the performance of the EL39 over the exalted but much more expensive EL37? ...(such things are what make tubes so much more interesting creatures than solid state components...for me anyway!!) ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi

So guys, before ditching a defective EL39 that didn't light up I thought I'd break the glass off for your inspection in the name of science.

Said EL39 before / after: _(photos enlarge for detail)_
 

    
For reference, here was the internals of an EL3N thanks to a previous Elise member:


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> So guys, before ditching a defective EL39 that didn't light up I thought I'd break the glass off for your inspection in the name of science.
> 
> Said EL39 before / after: _(photos enlarge for detail)_
> 
> ...



Hey DL, that's just too cruel for such a precious tube lol!  

Not lighting up shows it was the heater at fault, like one of mine. I really do hope you tried the pins (#2 and #7) re-heating of solder trick, and if unsuccessful, my past suggestion to cut off a short piece of the pin(s) to gain access to the wire(s), wedge with new wire for security and then resolder...worked for me . But it looks like you didn't do the latter...hope you haven't committed 'hara kiri' lol!! ...

My commiserations go out to you...CJ


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## DecentLevi

Somehow I overlooked applying your method to my tube. But it also didn't help I don't have a soldering iron. Maybe I should order one later. And the pin cutting / wire merging step seems a bit hard to follow unless possibly seeing a video demonstration. Maybe you can do one for us. And for my EL39's, I already have 3 in good shape, and one on the way (though I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet after one week).


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## hypnos1 (Sep 30, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Somehow I overlooked applying your method to my tube. But it also didn't help I don't have a soldering iron. Maybe I should order one later. And the pin cutting / wire merging step seems a bit hard to follow unless possibly seeing a video demonstration. Maybe you can do one for us. And for my EL39's, I already have 3 in good shape, and one on the way (though I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet after one week).



*Double tragedy* then you didn't try the pin re-heating/resoldering trick DL!!  For some reason, this pin wire contact/solder problem seems to happen more often with these _heater _wires than with others...presumably because the greater heat on them will find any weakness in the soldering much sooner. But at least when this is the culprit (ie. no lighting up), there's only 2 wires that are obviously the villains, as opposed to possibly _all_ needing the treatment if the tube is very noisy, despite the pins being cleaned and the tube seated properly in its socket.

If just heating the pin for 20 to 30 seconds (making sure the solder has indeed melted!) doesn't work and gaining access to the pin's wire is needed, it's a simple job to cut off a short piece of the pin, either using a small hacksaw or dremel-type tool (the latter especially really needing the tube to be held in a hobbyist's vice/vise).  But as I mentioned previously, *hold tight by the base, not the glass!* Then, with the tube held in the vice (vise) - again by its *base* only - and at a slight angle from vertical, resolder generously. For anyone not used to such procedures, probably best not to try wedging the now loose(?) wire with another short piece of wire and just simply resolder...if not very careful, the act of pushing in said piece might _possibly_ push the pin's wire further down and so lose all contact lol!!  (Has happened to me, and it's a real pig trying to retrieve it I assure you!!).

This isn't a complicated procedure and so doesn't need a video of it IMHO. But if I can find a defunct tube, I'll take a few photos for illustration. But if one isn't happy with a soldering iron, I would recommend trying to find a friend/acquaintance who is and plead with them lol!

Good luck with your other incoming tube, and hope it's trouble-free...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

Ive been away from the thread for a few weeks, but have had some time today to enjoy a i've enjoyed a catch up only to discover my endgame EL39/11 combo have been relegated in my absence to a mere mid-fi combo   

I have however been consoling myself with a new found guilty pleasure in the form of a pair of Beyer DT1770 Pros. My Stellias are still top dogs, but a late night journey back from a work trip, combined with a few too many glasses of wine, some highly selective review reading and a 50% amazon discount have led to the Beyers being plugged into my Euforia ever since. 

Sounding just so-so straight out of the Hugo2,but,wow the Euforia with its "nearly man" tube combo these things kick, they go deeper than just about any headphone i've heard, but an astonishing amount of control and transparency, yes the mids are little bit back and they're sparkly at the top, but all without sounding stereotypically v-shaped. I've swapped the tubes around with even lesser combos and its the 39/11s that seem to be bringing the x factor not just with the bass definition but almost as important some thickening of the mids.  I listen mainly to electronic music, which definitely plays in to the wheel house of the D1770's, but they also sound great with accoustic too.  In fact, can i retract guilty pleasure, if you like to crtically examine the lower frequencies without compromising overall enjoyment then these headphones are just a straight up pleasure. One word of warning, wow these things attack, so if you want to drift off while listening you'll definitely need to look elsewhere.

I hope the Stellia's arent listening and now i'm off to the Mazda showroom to look at what i should be driving my euforia with... sorry i know they're powers but i couldnt let the pun go un aired


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## Admiral Kolchak

teknorob23 said:


> combined with a few too many glasses of wine


Always a very wise choice. In vino veritas.


----------



## teknorob23

Admiral Kolchak said:


> Always a very wise choice. In vino veritas.



i'm not sure about that, i may have inadvertently turned myself into a bass-head, preparation perhaps for the ultimate betrayal of the stellia's, hopefully heading across the seas from New York very soon


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Ive been away from the thread for a few weeks, but have had some time today to enjoy a i've enjoyed a catch up only to discover my endgame EL39/11 combo have been relegated in my absence to a mere mid-fi combo
> 
> I have however been consoling myself with a new found guilty pleasure in the form of a pair of Beyer DT1770 Pros. My Stellias are still top dogs, but a late night journey back from a work trip, combined with a few too many glasses of wine, some highly selective review reading and a 50% amazon discount have led to the Beyers being plugged into my Euforia ever since.
> 
> ...



Ah tr, that's what you get for staying away from us for so long lol! ...new tubes and treachery towards your Stellias!!  But glad you're liking your new Beyers...(could it possibly be some ZMFs entering the ring also?!!

Anyway, re. the aforementioned Mazda/Dario EL38 of slightly different construction/appearance, 2x EL39s could *never* be termed 'mid-fi' mon ami!... Much more accurate would be that one of these upstarts partnering an EL39 as power is, as far as I'm concerned, _super_-fi lol . And if you like(love!) the Beyer's bass from the 39s, I'm sure the 'special' combo would have you downing more than a few glasses of something very nice...in both wonderment and joy!!

In fact, for a while now I've been wondering why there's a quality about the lower register that transcended all previous bass experience with headphones, but couldn't quite put my finger on it. Today it finally struck home, with my new Tannoy XT6F speakers blossoming after further burn-in...my Empyreans now deliver an almost speaker-*like* experience down low, albeit without body mass and bones shaking!! At first I was unsure if the extra bass from the Mazda might just be a tad too much, but after further burn-in (of both tube _and_ brain!), I could never ever go back to anything less...total addiction lol!

However, the now superlative performance from these Tannoys (WAY, WAY above the half price cost I got them for) has unfortunately confirmed that good speakers can do many things that even $3000 headphones like the Empyreans can't match...one of them being the unique and unmistakable sound that comes from the gong when used in a good recording... viz in a section of one of the tracks in Alan Parson's 'Turn of a Friendly Card'. In fact, I had to come running back into the room to find out just what was coming out of the Tannoys!! But then, speaker driver units are somewhat larger than in anything that sits on one's ears, no?!!

Mind you, such a sound never came out of my modded Dynaudio standmounts either lol. And I'm convinced that Euforia + EL11s + 'special' EL 38/39 combo as pre-amp has a good bit to do with it......CHEERS!...CJ

ps. And so, tr, get hot foot down to the Mazda showroom in search of the EL38 tube in question...remembering the badge on the bonnet might just have 'Dario' on it!!


----------



## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> i'm not sure about that, i may have inadvertently turned myself into a bass-head, preparation perhaps for the ultimate betrayal of the stellia's, hopefully heading across the seas from New York very soon



You can find ZMF in Germany here, why bother to buy from US?

https://headphonecompany.com/produk...?filter_010-marke=zmf&query_type_010-marke=or


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> You can find ZMF in Germany here, why bother to buy from US?
> 
> https://headphonecompany.com/produk...?filter_010-marke=zmf&query_type_010-marke=or



Sorry i didnt make myself very clear I've ordered Verite Closed in the UK, but i'm waiting for them to be finished and shipped from the US


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## OctavianH

What made you decide to buy them? I have to admit I discuss with my wallet about a pair of Verite Open, but it is not very responsive. What to say, my wallet matches my grumpiness.


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## chrisdrop

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry i didnt make myself very clear I've ordered Verite Closed in the UK, but i'm waiting for them to be finished and shipped from the US


Me too
Can't wait


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## Admiral Kolchak

teknorob23 said:


> Sorry i didnt make myself very clear I've ordered Verite Closed in the UK, but i'm waiting for them to be finished and shipped from the US





chrisdrop said:


> Me too
> Can't wait


Hahaha the lamentations of the ZMF Waiting Support Club have spilled over to the Euforia thread


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## hypnos1 (Oct 1, 2019)

*YE GODS*, guys...especially @ZRW0 , @Johnnysound and my chief fellow pioneer risk-taker @connieflyer ...this time I cannot take credit for what looks like (at the moment!) could well be a power tube that's by far the best value-for-money I personally have ever had the pleasure to experiment with. And that, from initial performance at least, may well be easily the equal of the silver-banded EL38 and close on the heels of the EL39/'special' Mazda/Dario EL38!

To be precise, my Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581As arrived today; popped one in Euforia (using my EL39 adapter with a simple wire link between socket pins #3 and #4), and with trembling hand remaining glued to the power switch, went for bust...

Well, the first surprise was *deathly silence*, and with no signal yet, even with the vol knob at max! The second came with signal volume gradually increased...beautiful sound already from a brand new tube_ not _50 to 60 years old lol!! And still not the slightest hint of any untoward noise/distortion...in fact, when pushing the tubes to ear-busting levels, the partnering EL39 would go into distortion, but the 7581A stayed totally in control, even at impossibly high volume level...WOW!...

Although still _very_ early days - just a few hours in fact! - this tube is holding its own against the EL39, albeit with not _quite_ the bass mastery of the special Mazda EL38. But hey, it can only develop more with time. It is delivering a very impressive balance right across the FR, and with a treble I've seldom heard this good, and without sibilance, right from the off. Stage is not yet _quite_ as wide either, but this can _definitely_ only get better.

And so if things develop as I'm sure they will, this 7581A is going to prove a no-brainer power tube for our amps...especially at just an average of *$42 a pair* (in the USA)...crazy (cheap) money!!! 

Once again, I'm confounded by our F-A amps' ability to shine so brightly with tubes not configured for...quite amazing...

A couple of photos of this extremely well made and good-looking tube in situ   :





ps. Unfortunately, as I and cf suspected, Euforia doesn't push this tube anywhere near hard enough to create the lovely blue glow triportsad:)...big sigh...but once again, as recompense, it has our amp running cool as a cucumber . And will also, of course, mean much longer life for both the amp _and_ tube lol...consider me _super_ impressed.

So a big THANKS and MERCI BIEN! to Erwan for suggesting I try this tube...you were spot on!

pps. I shall ask cf to check once more precisely how Mrsx's EL38 adapter is configured, to see if _this_ time a simple wire link can also make it work for the 7581A. And if not, it may well be worth my asking Mrsx to make one specifically for this tube...if anyone is interested, that is! Naturally, however, I will need to trial this tube for a good while yet before I personally can recommend it as perfectly safe to use...but after over 5 hours' continuous use, everything is still performing 100%, and the amp _still_ just lukewarm!!...CHEERS!...CJ

ppps. Anyone with my EL39 adapter will be able to use it for this new tube, using the wire link I mentioned earlier...and I shall show once again just where it goes on the adapter's socket...


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> What made you decide to buy them? I have to admit I discuss with my wallet about a pair of Verite Open, but it is not very responsive. What to say, my wallet matches my grumpiness.



Well i love the Stellia's and they definitely raised the bar by some margin on everything else i'd heard in the CB market. They're second only to the Utopia for detail retrieval with a much easier to live with tonal balance, amazing midrange, etc, etc, but they're not perfect as i find bass although extended and well defined, to be a little too linear for my taste and the stage is not the widest or deepest. I had a super brief listen to the VCs at canjam, and was instantly impressed by the stage and tonality, but i couldnt really form anything like a reliable impression. However a two friends who's ears i trust, with similar music tastes to me (60% electronic/ 20% indie alt rock & 20% anything else), both demo'd them at length and both ordered on the spot. So i've taken the gamble, with the risk mitigated slightly by the Canjam discount and ordered a pair off plan. It was either that or wait for a demo pair to wind their way to the UK in the New year and then if ordered probably have them delivered by late spring, so i've taken a bit of a  punt based on putting them up against the stellias and selling the loser. 

You're probably right to be questioning the sanity of such and endeavour, my wife definitely is and would even more if she new how much any of it cost, but whereas i'm pretty happy to keep DACs, Amps etc for a number of years, i tend to get itchy feet/ears with headphones after about 6-12 months, not because theres anything wrong in this case with Stellias, but i just love hearing my music presented with a different flavouring. I'm not expecting the VC's to improve in every aspect, because i'll be very surprised if they can match the stellia purely on technical terms, but a bit more width and depth and bass punch will be a nice change and of course i'm expecting them to hit it off with the Euforia


----------



## connieflyer

Well CJ oh, it's as we figured as far as the blue glow goes. But with everything else being said these could turn out to be a very good option for people especially at the price point. I must admit it's disappointing about the blue glow, if I would have been wrong and these glowed like crazy, I would have jumped all over them! But we'll see how it goes let you do the trailblazing on these, to be honest the special 38 and the 39 combination with the mesh 11s just are so satisfying. Using this as a preamp has really made a difference in my listening. Using the headphones quite a bit less than I had in the past. And these tubes continue to improve, usual sessions are between 2 and 3 hours and they have grown quite a bit since I first started using it as a preamp. Amplifier never ceases to amaze me


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> *YE GODS*, guys...especially @ZRW0 , @Johnnysound and my chief fellow pioneer risk-taker @connieflyer ...this time I cannot take credit for what looks like (at the moment!) could well be a power tube that's by far the best value-for-money I personally have ever had the pleasure to experiment with. And that, from initial performance at least, may well be easily the equal of the silver-banded EL38 and close on the heels of the EL39/'special' Mazda/Dario EL38!
> 
> To be precise, my Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581As arrived today; popped one in Euforia (using my EL39 adapter with a simple wire link between socket pins #3 and #4), and with trembling hand remaining glued to the power switch, went for bust...
> 
> ...



Ah, the horizon keeps expanding wider. What drivers are you using at present with these @hypnos1? Also, if I'm reading the spec. sheet correctly it appears these only draw 0.9 ma heater current, so could they potentially be used as drivers as well or is their relatively low amplification factor (8) a reason to think they wouldn't perform well in that capacity?

In any case, looking forward to your more extended impressions and based on your initial enjoyment of them, perhaps a direct 7581A --> 6SN7 adapter would be useful if Deyan or xulingmrs are interested in building.

Thanks!


----------



## DecentLevi

And whaddya' know, this latest breakthrough in Euforia tubes is actually available in *plentiful *quantities, seems to be currently manufactured (don't quote me on this), and is even available on such places such as *Amazon*. And at least this time, I can wait as long as I want without having to jump ship towards a dwindling tube supply. So H1 let us know how two of these sounds.

But for me with the level of satisfaction I've gotten with EL39's in a special multi-setup on the Euforia, the possible 7581A route would be just for fun or even collecting for a future amp.


----------



## teknorob23

oh God, now i'm 2 set of tubes behind the Zeitgeist, i really need to stop being distracted by headphone and focus a bit more on the things that matter! 

On a slight tangent, while i've been away on work i've been using a little Fostex HP-1V portable tube amp which, running with my H2,  i've been surprised and impressed by. Stage width is particularly good, which brings me on to my question. For me the Euforia's stage is definitely not the widest, yes it can be deep and made deeper with silver/gold hp cables and EL39/11s, but i've yet to find a combination that adds width, so my question to the floor is: what is the best combination of tubes anyone has found, based purely on staging performance, most importantly width?


----------



## connieflyer

For those of you that may have tried the 6L6 tubes with the Elise or Euforia before. This tube is an upgraded 6L6GC tube but will provide more headroom than typical 6L6GC tubes. The 7581-A tube has a plate dissipation rating of 35W, as opposed to the 6L6GC and 7581 rating of 30W.  The 7581A tube can be used in any 6L6 based tube circuit. They are available at the tubestore for $29.95


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Ah, the horizon keeps expanding wider. What drivers are you using at present with these @hypnos1? Also, if I'm reading the spec. sheet correctly it appears these only draw 0.9 ma heater current, so could they potentially be used as drivers as well or is their relatively low amplification factor (8) a reason to think they wouldn't perform well in that capacity?
> 
> In any case, looking forward to your more extended impressions and based on your initial enjoyment of them, perhaps a direct 7581A --> 6SN7 adapter would be useful if Deyan or xulingmrs are interested in building.
> Thanks!


Hi LW...yes indeed, I surely thought myself - and others! - finally at the end of the rainbow...blame @ZRW0 this time lol!! 

Anyway, using Valvo EL11s (mesh plates) as drivers, this is yet another match made in heaven...they sing together beautifully and without the slightest hitch/clash. 

Going for broke, I did what I wouldn't normally recommend anyone to do...ie. left the amp running overnight while I slept (or _tried_ to, at least!). And so, nine hours later I'm greeted (thankfully) with an amp and tubes intact...not the slightest hint of 'discomfort' lol. And _still_ with Euforia's case and trafo hardly lukewarm...count me _doubly_ impressed. A quick listen also confirmed everything on track for further burn-in magic...so will give the single 7581A another full day before A/Bing with a second EL39, then the 'special' Mazda EL38. But even then, that's hardly fair, given the new boy will need many more hours yet to fully shine!

And after that, it will be 2x 7581As of course...but again, there'll be the wait for the second one to start catching up #1. Proper evaluation just can't be rushed, alas! 

And only then will I try them as _drivers_...although really, I should see how stock drivers perform with them first!! So, patience is the order of the day unfortunately......will keep y'all informed.




DecentLevi said:


> And whaddya' know, this latest breakthrough in Euforia tubes is actually available in *plentiful *quantities, seems to be currently manufactured (don't quote me on this), and is even available on such places such as *Amazon*. And at least this time, I can wait as long as I want without having to jump ship towards a dwindling tube supply. So H1 let us know how two of these sounds.
> 
> But for me with the level of satisfaction I've gotten with EL39's in a special multi-setup on the Euforia, the possible 7581A route would be just for fun or even collecting for a future amp.



Yo DL...looks like there's _masses_ of these tubes available from many sources, and at really cheap prices... which is the icing on the cake lol!  And at the moment it looks like this tube could well give even the EL39 a run for its money...but things could easily be a bit different with _two_ as powers!!...time will tell...


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 2, 2019)

@teknorob23 asked: ....my question to the floor is: what is the best combination of tubes anyone has found, based purely on staging performance, most importantly width?

With Elise the Tung Sol 7236 has by far the widest stage of the 5 or so powers I've tried, exceeding the others by a wide margin (pun intended).


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well CJ oh, it's as we figured as far as the blue glow goes. But with everything else being said these could turn out to be a very good option for people especially at the price point. I must admit it's disappointing about the blue glow, if I would have been wrong and these glowed like crazy, I would have jumped all over them! But we'll see how it goes let you do the trailblazing on these, to be honest the special 38 and the 39 combination with the mesh 11s just are so satisfying. Using this as a preamp has really made a difference in my listening. Using the headphones quite a bit less than I had in the past. And these tubes continue to improve, usual sessions are between 2 and 3 hours and they have grown quite a bit since I first started using it as a preamp. Amplifier never ceases to amaze me





connieflyer said:


> For those of you that may have tried the 6L6 tubes with the Elise or Euforia before. This tube is an upgraded 6L6GC tube but will provide more headroom than typical 6L6GC tubes. The 7581-A tube has a plate dissipation rating of 35W, as opposed to the 6L6GC and 7581 rating of 30W.  The 7581A tube can be used in any 6L6 based tube circuit. They are available at the tubestore for $29.95



Hi cf...yes indeed, shame about the (bright) blue glow..._however_, when I turned off the lights last night, hey presto - eerie, if faint, blue patterns from top to bottom all around the plate. So not all is lost, mon ami!!  But more important, of course, is just how darned good the single tube is already sounding as partner to an EL39. I can't wait to see how 2x 7581As perform in comparison...but that's a bit further down the line just yet - I'm trying to be _super_ careful/critical with this tube especially, given its potential as a (cheap and plentiful) giant killer lol .

And yes, from user reviews that rate this particular member of the 6L6 family so highly, the price is almost laughable...I notice matched pairs are even available on ebay.com at about $31 the *pair*, plus shipping. And given they're brand new, modern production tubes, reliability should be very good IMHO.

ps. The more I manage to hear Euforia with our current top tubes as preamp, I can understand more time being given to speaker listening lol! ...(when it's feasible/possible, that is!! ). But please don't desert the ol' cans_ completely, _D......CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Oct 2, 2019)

Have not listened to phones for about a week now.  And I had just picked up a pair of HiFiman 560's to see what that kind of diaphram sounds like. It was good, but still preferred Senn 800. Will not give them up, but the preamp out is sounding better day to day.  Using with amazon prime HD service it is quite good.  Not all music is hd though, some is SD, some HD and some Ultra HD (there terms not mine) HD is 16 bit 44.1 KHZ Ultra is 24 bit 96 KHZ, so most sounds quite good.  The more the tubes (and amp) burn in the better this is sounding. Like playing this during the day time, as everyone else is at work, and the volume knob can be free to test to see at what level speakers will distort (before ears bleed that is!) has not happened yet so this combo is a firm commitment.  Glad the 7581's are working out for you.  May try them at some point. Always interesting to follow your travels!


----------



## connieflyer (Oct 2, 2019)

Just a little blast from the past from the predecessor replaced 6sn7 with these


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> oh God, now i'm 2 set of tubes behind the Zeitgeist, i really need to stop being distracted by headphone and focus a bit more on the things that matter!
> 
> On a slight tangent, while i've been away on work i've been using a little Fostex HP-1V portable tube amp which, running with my H2,  i've been surprised and impressed by. Stage width is particularly good, which brings me on to my question. For me the Euforia's stage is definitely not the widest, yes it can be deep and made deeper with silver/gold hp cables and EL39/11s, but i've yet to find a combination that adds width, so my question to the floor is: what is the best combination of tubes anyone has found, based purely on staging performance, most importantly width?



Hi tr...interesting comment re. Euforia's stage width. To be honest, I personally have never found this aspect lacking in any way. But then, I find the extra 'air' that comes to the presentation from open/semi-open cans like the Beyer T1s, and now the 'Hybrid Planar' Empyreans always helps with this aspect of soundstage...and is one reason why I could never go _closed_ lol!  Plus, the danger in going wider is the effect it will probably have on _focus_ and positioning...I myself prefer to lean towards the_ overall _3-dimensional/spatial quality . But as always, of course, it comes down to one's personal taste in delivery...plus _any_ setup can only ever be a _compromise_ - no single piece of gear, including tubes(!) can of necessity do _everything_ alas ...(but that never stops us from searching, n'est-ce pas?! ). So...HAPPY HUNTING tr!


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> *YE GODS*, guys...especially @ZRW0 , @Johnnysound and my chief fellow pioneer risk-taker @connieflyer ...this time I cannot take credit for what looks like (at the moment!) could well be a power tube that's by far the best value-for-money I personally have ever had the pleasure to experiment with. And that, from initial performance at least, may well be easily the equal of the silver-banded EL38 and close on the heels of the EL39/'special' Mazda/Dario EL38!
> 
> To be precise, my Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581As arrived today; popped one in Euforia (using my EL39 adapter with a simple wire link between socket pins #3 and #4), and with trembling hand remaining glued to the power switch, went for bust...
> 
> ...



Could not help myself, just purchased a quad of 7581A (14 watchers on ebay) wonder how many of those were fellow Euforia owners?. There goes my " no more tube rolling" after EL39.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 2, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Could not help myself, just purchased a quad of 7581A (14 watchers on ebay) wonder how many of those were fellow Euforia owners?. There goes my " no more tube rolling" after EL39.



Wow bt...now that's what I call the _very _early bird lol...WELL DONE! And take comfort in the fact you're by no means alone in the "no more tube rolling" camp!! ...(can't even count the number of times I myself have [foolishly] sworn this! 

But take comfort from the fact that this tube is already proving to be not only an extremely good performer, but also one that Euforia (once again) is taking to her bosom as if just made for each other. And so now, all you need are adapters for them lol! Are you going to ask xulingmrs if they'll make them, just like all our previous adapters, or would you like me to get in touch with them first? Or were you thinking of 'Deyan', who makes them for Glenn's amps especially? Most folks on the whole have found Mrsx's ones good enough, and very competitively priced...don't think Deyan's can match price-wise, but appear to be constructed more traditionally using wire rather than PCB (and I personally would also like to see just _precisely_ how they'd look! )....congrats once again on being a trailblazer bt...CHEERS!...CJ

Edit @barontan2418 ...ps. this 7581*A *needs to be _'triode-strapped'_ again of course!...


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Wow bt...now that's what I call the _very _early bird lol...WELL DONE! And take comfort in the fact you're by no means alone in the "no more tube rolling" camp!! ...(can't even count the number of times I myself have [foolishly] sworn this!
> 
> But take comfort from the fact that this tube is already proving to be not only an extremely good performer, but also one that Euforia (once again) is taking to her bosom as if just made for each other. And so now, all you need are adapters for them lol! Are you going to ask xulingmrs if they'll make them, just like all our previous adapters, or would you like me to get in touch with them first? Or were you thinking of 'Deyan', who makes them for Glenn's amps especially? Most folks on the whole have found Mrsx's ones good enough, and very competitively priced...don't think Deyan's can match price-wise, but appear to be constructed more traditionally using wire rather than PCB (and I personally would also like to see just _precisely_ how they'd look! )....congrats once again on being a trailblazer bt...CHEERS!...CJ



Hi CJ. If you could run it by  xulingmrs  that would be great. I've never been in contact with them so more likely a positive outcome if request comes from you. Many thanks and will wait with bated breath for your further test results.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi CJ. If you could run it by  xulingmrs  that would be great. I've never been in contact with them so more likely a positive outcome if request comes from you. Many thanks and will wait with bated breath for your further test results.



Will do, bt...can't see any objection after the total number of different adapters they've made on Elise and Euforia's behalf lol! 

Time for supper, so BFN all...CHEERS!...


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi tr...interesting comment re. Euforia's stage width. To be honest, I personally have never found this aspect lacking in any way. But then, I find the extra 'air' that comes to the presentation from open/semi-open cans like the Beyer T1s, and now the 'Hybrid Planar' Empyreans always helps with this aspect of soundstage...and is one reason why I could never go _closed_ lol!  Plus, the danger in going wider is the effect it will probably have on _focus_ and positioning...I myself prefer to lean towards the_ overall _3-dimensional/spatial quality . But as always, of course, it comes down to one's personal taste in delivery...plus _any_ setup can only ever be a _compromise_ - no single piece of gear, including tubes(!) can of necessity do _everything_ alas ...(but that never stops us from searching, n'est-ce pas?! ). So...HAPPY HUNTING tr!



Thanks for coming back to me CJ. This enquiry was really out of curiosity, an experiment, more than any sort of necessity. I am very happy with the Euforia's natural and air staging and i am not looking to change it. I find the staging consistent with my other longish standing and much Hugo2, and the Stellias too, in that it has an incredibly detailed but focused presentation, within a natural speaker like stage but via HPs and i agree there's plenty of air, but the stage by comparison to other SS and OTL amps ive heard leans towards the narrower end of things. For example i home demo'd the auris ha2 se before choosing the Euforia and it has a considerably wider stage, but it struck as cold and a little anodyne despite being technically very impressive. It just lacked the organic natural and apologies but i cant find a better word, musicality that had me hooked at first listen with Euforia and that i've yet to find or even want to look for elsewhere (except perhaps anniversary editions  ). Having spent my first year of headfi working my way around the IEM market place where stage width is a common preoccupation shared by HP designers and consumers alike. i heard some ridiculously wide stages, where the instruments occasionally sounded like they were being played on different continents not on a stage or in a studio together. Give me a natural focused, but well separated stage every time, but listening to the HP V!  portable in hotel room for a week or so just had me wondering, if any of you guys who've heard countless combinations had come across a tube that wowed you (even if nothing else about it stood out) in terms of its effect on stage width. An illustration of another similar incidence was my recent experience with neotech silver gold has on creating depth and 3D'ness even though its ultimately not my favourite cable for other reasons.

Sorry, as you can probably tell i'm not 100% sure where im trying to go with this or why i want to go there, probably caused by having an unusual amount of uninterrupted time to myself in the evenings over the last week or so. You'll be relieved to hear i'm back with my Euforia and stellias along with constant interruptions of small children needing drinks of water or tell me something important like its dark outside, so hopefully this is the last stream of consciousness posts for a while..


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 3, 2019)

Allow me to pose a question that may be self-evident to some, but I'd rather learn than maintain a false facade of knowing. The question is whether for an amp like our FA's (Elise, Euforia)  configured with 2 power tubes and 2 driver tubes, does each of the power pair and each of the driver pair correspond to the left or right stereo channel? In other words, does one driver tube map to left channel, other driver to right channel and same with power tubes or is their output "pooled" before going to each channel of the headphone (or preamp) output?
The reasons this seems pertinent to me are two-fold:

1. If one tube of a driver or power pair goes bad / underperforms will that be reflected in difference in one channel's output specifically or produce a more global sound impact across channels?
2. Some suggest mixing 2 different driver 6SN7 types can produce good results, but from 1st principles this seems like a strange idea if each tube is responsible for one of the stereo channels, but could be interesting to try if not.

I appreciate this community for the opportunity to ask perhaps dumb questions on my journey to get the most out of my FA amp. Thanks!


----------



## OctavianH

From what I know and tried, yes, looking from the volume knob to the tube sockets, the left pair of driver/power is the left channel and the right one is the right channel. I had tubes with problems and this was the way for me to identify the problematic one and fix or replace it.

I have also a question: I remember that I read somewhere that it makes sense on Euforia/Elise to switch the tubes from Left/Right channels between themselves in order to prolongue their life. This is not very clear to me why, does anyone know a scientific explanation? Maybe the circuitry inside or how the sockets are wired?


----------



## mordy

Each channel is separate to the best of my knowledge.
If one tube is very weak there may be a noticeable channel imbalance. Keep in mind that a 10% difference in measurements is considered to be within acceptable specifications and should not be noticeable when listening.


----------



## JazzVinyl

OctavianH said:


> I have also a question: I remember that I read somewhere that it makes sense on Euforia/Elise to switch the tubes from Left/Right channels between themselves in order to prolongue their life. This is not very clear to me why, does anyone know a scientific explanation? Maybe the circuitry inside or how the sockets are wired?



Should be identical circuitry on L/R and not matter at all.  Both sides use both of tubes' triode sections,


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> From what I know and tried, yes, looking from the volume knob to the tube sockets, the left pair of driver/power is the left channel and the right one is the right channel. I had tubes with problems and this was the way for me to identify the problematic one and fix or replace it.
> 
> I have also a question: I remember that I read somewhere that it makes sense on Euforia/Elise to switch the tubes from Left/Right channels between themselves in order to prolongue their life. This is not very clear to me why, does anyone know a scientific explanation? Maybe the circuitry inside or how the sockets are wired?



Hi OH...re. your own question, the only reason I can think of would possibly be down to the different transconductance, gain and plate dissipation figures that are bound to exist between each tube, regardless of so-called 'matching' (which might actually only be with reference to just one of several working measurements lol!). And as @mordy says, there are indeed 'acceptable' variations from '100%' that will hardly affect the final sound...as if by magic, a good amp circuit will take such differences in its stride. But IMO there will still therefore be slight differences in signal load/quality from driver tubes to corresponding powers that once again, may not be very noticeable to the listener. And perhaps switching tubes will even out things a bit more...just my own take on it lol! ...


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 3, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Allow me to pose a question that may be self-evident to some, but I'd rather learn than maintain a false facade of knowing. The question is whether for an amp like our FA's (Elise, Euforia)  configured with 2 power tubes and 2 driver tubes, does each of the power pair and each of the driver pair correspond to the left or right stereo channel? In other words, does one driver tube map to left channel, other driver to right channel and same with power tubes or is their output "pooled" before going to each channel of the headphone (or preamp) output?
> The reasons this seems pertinent to me are two-fold:
> 
> 1. If one tube of a driver or power pair goes bad / underperforms will that be reflected in difference in one channel's output specifically or produce a more global sound impact across channels?
> ...



All queries are welcomed LW...very often, as in all spheres of life, 'dumb' questions can in fact shed a very pertinent light on matters...so ask away lol! 

Enough folks have answered the general principle, but there are also further aspects involved here :
1. Given the 1 set of tubes per channel circuitry, and one channel underperforming, this _could_ also have a _slight_ global impact if more recent Euforias' 'Cross Feed' function is engaged (due to the slight mixing of both channels and which, if Hugo2's CF is anything to go by, I personally don't rate very highly at all I'm afraid! ).

2. Mixing 2 different driver tubes - or power even - from similar families can indeed _sometimes_ bring positive results...the one compensating for shortcomings in the other principle. But very sharp ears can also sometimes notice certain anomalies if some aspects of delivery are _too_ different from each other. The only real way to tell is, as usual,_ try it and see!!_ I first experimented with this (then) rather contentious practice way back in my Elise days, when I partnered an FDD20 (20V tube, needing external transformer) with an ECC31 - both only distantly related! - and the whole was definitely 'greater than the sum of the parts'. Ever since, this practice seems to have become rather more accepted and appreciated lol . Currently, I'm finding the same is happening with an EL39 power in partnership with the slightly different from normal Mazda/Dario EL38. So 'mixing and matching' can definitely bring its own rewards lol...

ps. Even more surprising such 'm and m' to follow......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OK @LoryWiv  and for those who may be interested in the Tung Sol (reissue) 7581A trials, I have today asked xulingmrs to make an adapter for this (6L6) family of tubes to work in our amps, and have given precise details of the pin configuration I myself am using...and hopefully this time, as opposed to their EL38 adapter, they will stick rigidly to my instructions lol!

Also, this time I shall be getting one for myself, just to make sure it works fine in my Euforia (and have a good look at its construction! ). To this end, they will be listing it on ebay tomorrow for me, even though it seems it'll be 10 days or so before a batch is ready...(with the hundreds of adapters sold based on my various tube experiments over the years, I thought they might have just sent me one gratis...but c'est-la-vie, I suppose ).

Anyway LW, I can honestly say that your purchase of 4 tubes will _not_ be money wasted...far from it! With over 40 hours on my first 7581A, including important generous cooling down periods, it is already performing brilliantly as partner to an EL39. Bass is now a match for the 'special' Mazda EL38 in this role, if not going even _deeper!_ The EL family's trademark clarity within a deathly silent background is repeated here just as magnificently, as is the sweetest treble. And if anything, mids are slightly more pronounced...but not to the often described as 'sugary' degree in the famous EL34, and certainly not in any way upsetting this tube's enviable overall balance and cohesion. All of which is extremely encouraging, given other users' recommendation for the long burn-in we've also come to expect from all the EL family (possibly a trait of the _pentode_ tube type?...).

And so, after a quick comparison with another EL39 tomorrow (I've got a pretty good handle on the 38/39 now), I hope to see how _two_ 7581As sound. But I'll wait 'til the second has at least got 24 hours on it before any critical listening of course. But whatever, as a partner to an EL39 - and also an EL38, no doubt - I would rate this tube already as superior to the EL12 Spezial, which is no mean feat. And for the price..._no contest/no-brainer!!_...watch this space ...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> All queries are welcomed LW...very often, as in all spheres of life, 'dumb' questions can in fact shed a very pertinent light on matters...so ask away lol!
> 
> Enough folks have answered the general principle, but there are also further aspects involved here :
> 1. Given the 1 set of tubes per channel circuitry, and one channel underperforming, this _could_ also have a _slight_ global impact if more recent Euforias' 'Cross Feed' function is engaged (due to the slight mixing of both channels and which, if Hugo2's CF is anything to go by, I personally don't rate very highly at all I'm afraid! ).
> ...


Thank you @hypnos1 and others who responded...really helpful and also rather fascinating. The more I learn the more questions arise, and I am grateful for this gracious community's collective experience and willingness to share ideas. Thank you!


----------



## connieflyer

Went back and rolled in some old favorites.  Sylvania Jan vt231's and RCA 6AS7's  my opinion is of all the various 6AS7's I have tried I like these the best.  Bass and mids are powerful and the Sylvania's have the treble covered in spades.  With some drivers the Sylvania's  are a little bright, but with these RCA 6AS7's a very nice spread to the music spectrum. Using this as a pre amp out , that is why the volume is so high.


----------



## Johnnysound

hypnos1 said:


> *YE GODS*, guys...especially @ZRW0 , @Johnnysound and my chief fellow pioneer risk-taker @connieflyer ...this time I cannot take credit for what looks like (at the moment!) could well be a power tube that's by far the best value-for-money I personally have ever had the pleasure to experiment with. And that, from initial performance at least, may well be easily the equal of the silver-banded EL38 and close on the heels of the EL39/'special' Mazda/Dario EL38!
> 
> To be precise, my Tung Sol reissue (Russian) 7581As arrived today; popped one in Euforia (using my EL39 adapter with a simple wire link between socket pins #3 and #4), and with trembling hand remaining glued to the power switch, went for bust...
> 
> ...



Hey H1, the 7581A has _*exactly*_ the same pinout as my KT150 dinosaurs !!  A wire between socket pins #3 and #4 using your EL39 adaptor ? Won’t fry the amp ?(LOL)
At 1.7- 2 amp each may be suitable in Euforia...


----------



## OctavianH

connieflyer said:


> Went back and rolled in some old favorites.  Sylvania Jan vt231's and RCA 6AS7's  my opinion is of all the various 6AS7's I have tried I like these the best.  Bass and mids are powerful and the Sylvania's have the treble covered in spades.  With some drivers the Sylvania's  are a little bright, but with these RCA 6AS7's a very nice spread to the music spectrum. Using this as a pre amp out , that is why the volume is so high.



I have a pair of RCA 6AS7 and as far as I remember these had the biggest bass from all my powers. But I tried them only once. I guess I need to try them again. Now I have to thank you for reminding me about these.


----------



## connieflyer

That has been my results as well. These don't have many hours on them so should perform even better.


----------



## teknorob23

Back in the room and keen to catch up. Others might have already seen these but if you're UK who dont want to wait or pay the import duties, Hotrox have the 7581A's in stock. The listing on their website is missing the "A" but i've spoken to them and they assured me they the tube in question @ £24 each.
http://www.hotroxuk.com/tungsol-7581-6l6-matched-valves.html


----------



## ZRW0

Looks like I've contributed to create a new trend 
If one "dares", I'd been interested in knowing what a quad 7581A could do on an Euforia.

Cheers,

Erwan


----------



## connieflyer

I know I said "no more tube trials" well, what I meant to say was, no more tube trials after the 7581A's! Just ordered a pair.  Checked ebay but MrsX has not posted adapters for sale as of yet. I sent a message asking when.  Good luck folks.  Here we go again CJ!


----------



## ZRW0

At least, this time the tubes are quite easy to find and quite affordable as well.


----------



## connieflyer

For those ordering from MrsX adapters.. Just got email back......New message from: xulingmrs Top Rated Seller(9,261Green Star)
Yes my old friend.item number is ‭202792462994‬.
Because this week is China holidays,please order 06.Oct. 
Thanks!

发自我的 iPhone


----------



## Deyan

connieflyer said:


> For those ordering from MrsX adapters.. Just got email back......New message from: xulingmrs Top Rated Seller(9,261Green Star)
> Yes my old friend.item number is ‭202792462994‬.
> Because this week is China holidays,please order 06.Oct.
> Thanks!
> ...



I could be of help


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Back in the room and keen to catch up. Others might have already seen these but if you're UK who dont want to wait or pay the import duties, Hotrox have the 7581A's in stock. The listing on their website is missing the "A" but i've spoken to them and they assured me they the tube in question @ £24 each.
> http://www.hotroxuk.com/tungsol-7581-6l6-matched-valves.html



*A POSSIBLY IMPORTANT NOTE RE. THE 7581A tube*

Hey tk, you've actually highlighted something re these tubes I hadn't noticed before...ie. there's either misinformation going on here, or even skulduggery lol?!! The 7581*A *_should _in fact be a different tube to the 'standard' 7581, and apparently better! From all the ads I see for the 2 types, they have different plate structure - ie. the 'A', with *3* round holes...and the standard 7581 with just *two*, as per the following pics :


 
Mine, with 3 round plate holes (and box stating 7581A as well as on the top of the tube)


 
The tube from hotrox you linked, with just _two_, rectangular holes.

I noticed that all the listings I've seen for the standard 7581 also have these same *2* holes. *PLUS*, there are listings for this same tube described as the 7581*A...???* And I also notice that these listings do NOT show the number on the box, or top of the tube! Again...????

And so my personal advice would be to search out the ones that _definitely_ have the _*three*_ holes as shown, just to be sure lol!


----------



## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Looks like I've contributed to create a new trend
> If one "dares", I'd been interested in knowing what a quad 7581A could do on an Euforia.
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



Hi Erwan...yes indeed mon ami, you do seem to have found us a winner of the highest calibre - and in plentiful supply...AND relatively cheap. Merveilleux!!! ...et merci...CJ

ps. Have yet to see how this tube behaves as driver, but will give it a try tomorrow, probably....Sante!


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 4, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> For those ordering from MrsX adapters.. Just got email back......New message from: xulingmrs Top Rated Seller(9,261Green Star)
> Yes my old friend.item number is ‭202792462994‬.
> Because this week is China holidays,please order 06.Oct.
> Thanks!
> ...



Yes indeed cf...unbelievably they already have one for display at least : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...462994?hash=item2f375f6a92:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl
And have put my order in, despite 'holidays'!

But I must get them to change the description - they list as for the EL34 also, but this tube doesn't have the grid#3 already linked to the cathode, as the 6L6/7581(A) has...and it needs to be for us when used _triode-strapped_....CHEERS!...CJ

Edit...ps. Unless they've linked adapter socket pin#1 (EL34's g3) to its #8 (cathode)...

ps. And sorry for leading you away from the straight and narrow yet again...I too thought my tube experimenting days were over, until @ZRW0 threw this wonderful tube into the ring lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> I could be of help



Hi Deyan.

Thanks for the offer.
xulingmrs have been very good to us F-A folks, with various adapters over the years that most folks have been pleased with. And at a price I would imagine wouldn't be anywhere near profitable for yourself, alas! But it's nice to know someone else is available for folks to choose, especially if not happy with the Chinese option lol 

Would you be able to show us a pic of how your own adapter would look at all? And a rough cost?

Thanks once again...CJ


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Deyan.
> 
> Thanks for the offer.
> xulingmrs have been very good to us F-A folks, with various adapters over the years that most folks have been pleased with. And at a price I would imagine wouldn't be anywhere near profitable for yourself, alas! But it's nice to know someone else is available for folks to choose, especially if not happy with the Chinese option lol
> ...



Well this is my take on the 6V6 / 7581A to 6AS7 adapter


 

 

Price for a pair is 40$ ( shipping is included )


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hey H1, the 7581A has _*exactly*_ the same pinout as my KT150 dinosaurs !!  A wire between socket pins #3 and #4 using your EL39 adaptor ? Won’t fry the amp ?(LOL)
> At 1.7- 2 amp each may be suitable in Euforia...



Hi J...Yes indeed...the same connections as KT66 and 77 also. *BUT*, the EL34 is different - it's grid#3 isn't already linked to the cathode, as in others of the 6L6 family (and KTs).
And re. the mod for the EL39 adapter...no problem! The _*adapter's*_ socket pin#3 - *not* the amp's, if anyone should wonder(! ) - becomes the 7581A's (6L6) anode link to the adapter's grid#2, which in turn is linked internally to the EL39's anode...so, in effect, simply anode to anode lol ...

As for the KT150...I'm sure that our amps wouldn't be driving this beast anywhere near hard enough for top performance, so I'll pass on that one thanks! And given the stellar performance from the ridiculously cheap TS 7581A, I suspect this will be the go-to power tube _par excellence!!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> *A POSSIBLY IMPORTANT NOTE RE. THE 7581A tube*
> 
> Hey tk, you've actually highlighted something re these tubes I hadn't noticed before...ie. there's either misinformation going on here, or even skulduggery lol?!! The 7581*A *_should _in fact be a different tube to the 'standard' 7581, and apparently better! From all the ads I see for the 2 types, they have different plate structure - ie. the 'A', with *3* round holes...and the standard 7581 with just *two*, as per the following pics :
> 
> ...



thanks for the heads up CJ, that was my fear that they might just be telling what i wanted to hear in (correctly until now  ) that i might not know the difference. I did push the point and laboured the point they'd be heading straight back if they werent the real thing. They should be hear tomorrow so i'll let you know, but thanks again because i wouldnt have known


----------



## teknorob23

Deyan said:


> Well this is my take on the 6V6 / 7581A to 6AS7 adapter
> 
> 
> Price for a pair is 40$ ( shipping is included )



As bought by me, so i'll let you all know but @Deyan EL11 to 6sn7 adapters are really well made and work seamlessly


----------



## connieflyer

If you use this part number 202792462994 on ebay, it will take you to the new description for the 7581A. Just ordered a pair. Also the tubes from tubestore.com are shown with the correct three holes    part number on the box.


----------



## connieflyer

So CJ, you made me do it again! It is not like I am not enjoying the EL's either.  Been swapping 6sn7's with my RCA 6AS7's and so far the best I have heard is with the PSvane that came stock with the Euforia. A very nice combo. A little warmer than the EL's  but the RCA 6AS7 has plentiful bass and mid's and highs are great with the PSvane.  Sounds much better than the stock 6AS7 that came with the amp.And CJ if you do try a quad of 5781A please don't tell us it is even better! I cannot keep doing the tube buy! Running out of storage space!  No, I really would want to know, but at least the price of admission with these tubes is not bad at all, so I suppose I am fine with the info. However,  I am sure, I will have enough tubes to far outlast the amp, and of course me!


----------



## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> Well this is my take on the 6V6 / 7581A to 6AS7 adapter
> 
> 
> Price for a pair is 40$ ( shipping is included )



Thanks for the info Deyan...nice for folks to have the choice...
Best, CJ...


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for the info Deyan...nice for folks to have the choice...
> Best, CJ...



i can vouch for the quality of @Deyan 's work, so far 100% successful and they're built like tanks which is breath of fresh air after my repeated troubles with getting working adapters from china. They also work out cheaper (£33 for pair delivered) and arrive more quickly, but i totally my experiences with Mrsx are not necessarily reflective of everyone elses who seem to have more luck. But i'm happy to recommend these


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If you use this part number 202792462994 on ebay, it will take you to the new description for the 7581A. Just ordered a pair. Also the tubes from tubestore.com are shown with the correct three holes    part number on the box.



Hi cf...well done ol' buddy. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

At the moment, the best price for the 3-hole 7581A on ebay.com ($47 the pair, with just $7 shipping in USA) seems to be : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tung-Sol-7581A-6L6-type-amp-tubes-Brand-NEW-in-Box/143024926181? 

And the part no. you quoted for the ebay adapter can be accessed here : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...462994?hash=item2f375f6a92:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl


----------



## OctavianH

I never had problems with Mrs. Xuling'x adapters except the double EL3N -> 6SN7 one. One of them broke after a few days of usage.

This one:






I used them to create this "monstrosity" of 6xEL3N in Elise:






However, I guess the root cause is 50/50 since these bathtub sockets are awful. Anyway it seemed, at that time, that the internal wiring of the adapter was faulty since one of the tubes was not glowing at all.
I guess I could easily repair it but I preferred to throw it away since I never liked the EL3N.

In my case, since Deyan is nearby I will definitely choose him for adapters. I am glad someone from Europe started to manufacture these little things for us.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> So CJ, you made me do it again! It is not like I am not enjoying the EL's either.  Been swapping 6sn7's with my RCA 6AS7's and so far the best I have heard is with the PSvane that came stock with the Euforia.* A very nice combo. A little warmer than the EL's * but the RCA 6AS7 has plentiful bass and mid's and highs are great with the PSvane.  Sounds much better than the stock 6AS7 that came with the amp.And CJ if you do try a quad of 5781A please don't tell us it is even better! I cannot keep doing the tube buy! Running out of storage space!  No, I really would want to know, but at least the price of admission with these tubes is not bad at all, so I suppose I am fine with the info. However,  I am sure, I will have enough tubes to far outlast the amp, and of course me!



Well cf - and for those interested - if a bit more warmth is needed in the system at all, then the 7581A as powers will be the perfect antidote lol! It is _soooo_ smooth, with about the best bass and mids I've ever heard from a power tube (certainly with my mesh plate EL11s!), along with a treble with no hint of harshness at all . And from what I remember, in another class to the RCA 6AS7Gs that I myself had anyway lol! ...

Re. 4x 7581As, with these being on the 'warm' side, I suspect that as drivers also they just _might_ not have the sparkle that some systems may need...but this can only be conjecture at such an early stage of course! (home responsibilities are holding up further trialing I'm afraid, but hopefully a bad Sunday's weather will assist in more tube time! )...BFN...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Oct 4, 2019)

Hey @teknorob23 ...there certainly is a lot of confusion(?) out there amongst sellers of the 7581 and7581*A *tube. Many are describing the _*two*_-hole plate design as 'A's, but again, without showing the numbering on either the box or the tube's top! And so with your own, I suppose you won't know for sure until they arrive and you can see the boxes and just what's stamped on the top of the tubes (and which will be your ammo of course, if necessary...the 7581 is _*not*_ the exact same tube as the 7581*A* (_true_ 6L6GC, regardless of what some may wish to say/advertise IMHO . Mind you, for us it might not make much difference, not pushing it as hard as it can be. But for anyone whose amp _is_ pushing it to spec max, the lower value of the standard 7581 would soon have it glowing red hot, with nasty consequences of course!  And so this is either a case of _dangerous_ for some misrepresentation, or the reissue 7581 and 7581A do indeed _both_ have the higher rated plate...???...something I personally wouldn't want to try, if using in a power amp lol!

And re. adapters, not wishing to take sides here (only ever use my own!) but in fairness to Mrsx, they have been a mainstay for Elise and Euforia owners for a good few years now, and apart from the occasional problem most folks have been more than happy with them. And their 6L6/7581(A)s work out at $27 (£22) a pair, delivered, with Deyan's at $40 (£33).
I shan't know their quality until mine arrives, when I shall be able to compare with my own and report back...(but you will indeed probably get yours before I do lol! ).
Looking forward to hearing just what tubes you receive, and whether you give them a shot when your adapters do arrive......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

Well I said to myself months ago, no more tubes, and with that decided to keep a low profile and just enjoy the tubes and amps I have for a while, and then what do I see, a new tube!,I have tried  to resist but it's just no good!, so I'm just going to have to try them for myself , congrats to @ZRW0, and to h1, for pioneering another tube. Btw like you @teknorob23, I saw them on hotrox too but was unsure, I will wait with anticipation to see if you get the right ones , and then force myself  ,to buy a pair, purely in the spirit of research!.


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Well I said to myself months ago, no more tubes, and with that decided to keep a low profile and just enjoy the tubes and amps I have for a while, and then what do I see, a new tube!,I have tried  to resist but it's just no good!, so I'm just going to have to try them for myself , congrats to @ZRW0, and to h1, for pioneering another tube. Btw like you @teknorob23, I saw them on hotrox too but was unsure, I will wait with anticipation to see if you get the right ones , and then force myself  ,to buy a pair, purely in the spirit of research!.



I know me too, (who am I kidding )I’ve just received 2 valvo el12, which i understand are bested by 11s, but I’ve been curious to hear the difference. First off they’re working perfectly which is relief after my last tube purchase. It’s too early with just a couple of hours listening, to give any reliable impressions but the new Angel Olson album sounded lovely. I’ll let you know whether hotrox are on the money or just trying to make it. I have also enquired with tube amp doctor in germany as they’re correctly listed with the 3 holes pictured, which is a better start. They’re priced at €48 euros for 2 plus €17 euros shipping. This probably works out about the same as buying from the US but without the import duties, at least until 30th October when all bets are off!! 

Thanks to @hypnos1 i’m now seeing quite a few of the US ebay shops are selling the wrong version as ‘A’ as well.  I’ll let you know how I go


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## teknorob23 (Oct 5, 2019)

Good news I think. Looks like the Hotrox tubes are legit with the correct number of holes??


----------



## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Good news I think. Looks like the Hotrox tubes are legit with the correct number of holes??



Hi tr...that's GREAT news, not just good! . So why did they post a pic of the _two_-hole 7581 lol?!! Ah well, never mind. I wonder if the same happens with all those ones listed on ebay.com in the USA, with the same 2-hole picture, but describing the 7581*A*?...weird......

Anyway mon ami, well done on the gamble...all you need now is to give them a try! You can always do what I'm doing, and use my EL39 adapter...all you need to do is use a small piece of thin/stranded wire (the best you can find - you must have plenty of bits of Neotech wire lying about lol! ) and link pins *3* and *4* of the *adapter's* socket. As a reminder...as you look *down* on the top of said socket, the pins number from 1 to 8 *anti-clockwise*, starting from the locating lug indent....GOOD LUCK!

ps. For your ease of mind, and @Johnnysound 's, I have just done the same for my second 7581A, and _no problems!_ Once again, not the slightest hint of an unwanted sound lol! 

Plus, for all folks' info - and in answer once again to you @barontan2418, today I replaced one of my Valvo mesh-plated EL11 drivers with a PsVane CV181TII (Euforia's stock driver), and I'm happy - nay _relieved!_ to say that it too drives the 7581A without the slightest hiccough...deathly silence once again, even with the vol knob at max, no music playing..._amazing!_ And what's even more surprising is that it sounds wonderful already driving the new boy...better in fact than I've ever heard this driver perform. 
But I will repeat once more, that one MUST wait an hour or so at least when following on from an EL tube - or any other triode-strapped pentode for that matter - before it will sound right...the amp needs time to readjust to different requirements, let alone the power tube to a totally different type of driver!

Anyway, after about 7 hours' cooking, I'm mightily impressed with how the PsVane is sounding. Not long enough listening to give full and proper comparison with the EL11, but it's not too far off lol!...(remembering however this is just one driver - two could alter things somewhat!). But initial impression is one of _slightly_ less range and definition in bass and treble; _slightly_ less 3-dimensional stage/width and not quite so precise positioning. But hey, I'm being _hyper_ critical here...this PsVane is doing a really good job as driver to the 7581A! 

But now it's the turn of *two 7581A powers*, and back to 2x Valvo EL11 drivers...this one is going to be _extremely_ interesting - for _me_, anyway lol ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Have a great weekend y'all! ...BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

It's kind of interesting that when I got the new app after the Elise it came with the psvane driver tubes and I never even turn them on I immediately switch to my favorites from the Elise and put those away and never look back. Using them now for the last couple of days with the RCA 6 a S7 through the preamp and through the headphones these driver tube sound pretty decent, not quite Del 11 mesh plate but they are quite quite nice. Waiting for the adapters from mrs. X, the 7581a tubes have shipped from Canada and should be here in a couple of days. The e l 39 s that I have I don't have the separate adapters for them so I'll just have to wait. Sounds very interesting CJ, I think I'm rather glad I decided to roll Just One Last Time!


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi tr...that's GREAT news, not just good! . So why did they post a pic of the _two_-hole 7581 lol?!! Ah well, never mind. I wonder if the same happens with all those ones listed on ebay.com in the USA, with the same 2-hole picture, but describing the 7581*A*?...weird......
> 
> Anyway mon ami, well done on the gamble...all you need now is to give them a try! You can always do what I'm doing, and use my EL39 adapter...all you need to do is use a small piece of thin/stranded wire (the best you can find - you must have plenty of bits of Neotech wire lying about lol! ) and link pins *3* and *4* of the *adapter's* socket. As a reminder...as you look *down* on the top of said socket, the pins number from 1 to 8 *anti-clockwise*, starting from the locating lug indent....GOOD LUCK!
> 
> ...




These appear to have just the two holes but state they are 7581A. Too late anyway as they are on their way to me. Langrex Premium.


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi tr...that's GREAT news, not just good! . So why did they post a pic of the _two_-hole 7581 lol?!! Ah well, never mind. I wonder if the same happens with all those ones listed on ebay.com in the USA, with the same 2-hole picture, but describing the 7581*A*?...weird......
> 
> Anyway mon ami, well done on the gamble...all you need now is to give them a try! You can always do what I'm doing, and use my EL39 adapter...all you need to do is use a small piece of thin/stranded wire (the best you can find - you must have plenty of bits of Neotech wire lying about lol! ) and link pins *3* and *4* of the *adapter's* socket. As a reminder...as you look *down* on the top of said socket, the pins number from 1 to 8 *anti-clockwise*, starting from the locating lug indent....GOOD LUCK!
> 
> ...



Hotrox said they just hadnt go around to swapping the pics over on the site, which sounded fishy at the time, but alls well thet ends, etc Thats brilliant thank you for the tip on the adapters, and you're right i do have just the strand of wire knocking about  Very interested to hear how they go EL11, or i might even be decadent and leave the EL12 in. thanks again


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> I know me too, (who am I kidding )I’ve just received 2 valvo el12, which i understand are bested by 11s, but I’ve been curious to hear the difference. First off they’re working perfectly which is relief after my last tube purchase. It’s too early with just a couple of hours listening, to give any reliable impressions but the new Angel Olson album sounded lovely. I’ll let you know whether hotrox are on the money or just trying to make it. I have also enquired with tube amp doctor in germany as they’re correctly listed with the 3 holes pictured, which is a better start. They’re priced at €48 euros for 2 plus €17 euros shipping. This probably works out about the same as buying from the US but without the import duties, at least until 30th October when all bets are off!!
> 
> Thanks to @hypnos1 i’m now seeing quite a few of the US ebay shops are selling the wrong version as ‘A’ as well.  I’ll let you know how I go





teknorob23 said:


> Good news I think. Looks like the Hotrox tubes are legit with the correct number of holes??


Good to hear that your gamble has paid off!, and thanks for letting us know, time to buy a pair before they all go!. I have a pair of the EL12, mine are mongrels, 1 RFT and 1TFK, I like them for being such a versatile tube at both powers and drivers, enjoy .


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> These appear to have just the two holes but state they are 7581A. Too late anyway as they are on their way to me. Langrex Premium.



Uh oh, bt...I'm afraid those look like they must be the Chinese Shuguang versions. They aren't the universally praised Russian reissue Tung Sols...any chance of returning? Actually, distance selling regulations mean you can do so, and return shipping shouldn't be too bad, unless you want to try them out of interest lol! 

Now it's time for a brief listen of the 2x 7581As, even though the second has only been in a few hours and wouldn't normally bother this early on...(but am too impatient/curious! ).
So g'night all....CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Nite CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Uh oh, bt...I'm afraid those look like they must be the Chinese Shuguang versions. They aren't the universally praised Russian reissue Tung Sols...any chance of returning? Actually, distance selling regulations mean you can do so, and return shipping shouldn't be too bad, unless you want to try them out of interest lol!
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up CJ. These are advertised as made in the USSR. Might just try them out.
> 
> ...


----------



## hypnos1

Hi bt...you're right! They are indeed described as made in Russia...the plot thickens, as they do also have some Chinese Shuguang ones! It looks like the USA guy at New Sensor Corp, who seems to have organised nearly _all_ of the old tube reissues(!) really went to town here (unless others were also involved lol ).

So it will indeed be interesting to see what you make of them. Would also be interesting if anyone did a comparison with the Tung Sols! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys, just a quickie...(but hey @Scutey and @connieflyer , did you _really_ think you could settle down and sit on your laurels lol?! Or that there wouldn't be yet _another_ 'One last time' cf??!! ).

Anyway, with an overnight burn-in on the second 7581A, all I can say is..._I don't believe it!!_ Driven by the Valvo EL11s, the sound is already quite magnificent. And so at the price of these Tung Sols, I'm convinced that for our amps at least, there's absolutely _nothing_ can come anywhere near for the money...or a great deal more, come to that......BFN...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys, just a quickie...(but hey @Scutey and @connieflyer , did you _really_ think you could settle down and sit on your laurels lol?! Or that there wouldn't be yet _another_ 'One last time' cf??!! ).
> 
> Anyway, with an overnight burn-in on the second 7581A, all I can say is..._I don't believe it!!_ Driven by the Valvo EL11s, the sound is already quite magnificent. And so at the price of these Tung Sols, I'm convinced that for our amps at least, there's absolutely _nothing_ can come anywhere near for the money...or a great deal more, come to that......BFN...CJ



Better than 38s or 39s??


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## connieflyer

Okay CJ, I'll give you this one, and I really really really mean it this time these tubes are the last ones I'm going to buy. Of course I said these tubes so if it proves that a quad of these are even better then a pair with a pair of 11s I suppose I could squeeze in one more pair! Now that should be interesting if this tube will indeed work as a driver in our amp as well. Reminds me of the days that I used to use a quad of 6s N7 tubes and that was interesting. Well I wish you good luck on the journey I got shipping notice from misses exit my adapters shipped two more days until the tubes arrived from Canada so I'm back to being an international shopper. Good luck all


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## hypnos1 (Oct 6, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Better than 38s or 39s??



Ah now then tr, that's the proverbial $64,000 question lol! And one with no easy answer just yet, with only about 18hrs on the second 7581A as power.

However, even at this early stage, my antennae are giving me _some_ clues at least... _in my system! _:

1. With the Valvo EL11s back as drivers, despite the PsVane CV181TIIs partnering extremely well as drivers, they don't have the 'polish' of the EL11s (I suspect with the 'standard' plates also...). But I myself have always found this with whatever power tubes used anyway lol ...

2. Better than 38s or 39s?... Although too early, and without proper critical comparison yet, I think I can safely say that the 7581A (Russian reissue Tung Sol at least!) gives a better, more balanced overall performance than the _clear_ glass Mullard EL38 IMHO_. _The silver banded Philips (France) EL38s - and EL39s - will probably be a closer call, but then, mine have many more hours on them than the Tung Sols. And although the latter's bass is very good indeed, at the moment it doesn't hit _quite _as hard as my 'special' Mazda EL38/EL39 combo...but there's plenty of time yet, especially as other users of the 7581A say it needs up to 150hrs before at its best (and that'll be when pushing it harder than our amps, so could well be a _minimum_...and looking at the size of its _single_ plate, no wonder lol! ).

3. Lower/mid mids are definitely more in evidence than most other power tubes I've ever used, and again at the moment at least, along with the enhanced bass, mean slightly less 'air'...but apparently this does change somewhat with further burn-in. All I can say is that if - as is usually found - the EL34 has even _more_ pronounced mids, then it certainly would become the 'syrupy' that some folks find, and certainly not for my tastes lol! 

4. Treble is sweet and with good detail, but as I mentioned before, probably a tad short in the 'sparkle' stakes if one craves that kind of sound, or in a system that is already on the dark/very warm side.

And so I'm impatient to be able to do a _full and proper_ comparison with 2x EL39s, and then my 'ultimate' challenge of the 'special' combo...but I must try to be patient a while longer! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Nice comparison, I hope you get more hours on these.  I would love to hear the difference you hear with the pair of 7581a's and then compared to the special El 38 and El39 combo.  My adapters should be here in a week or so and then will start burnin.  Has the blue glow developed any more over time or pretty static?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Nice comparison, I hope you get more hours on these.  I would love to hear the difference you hear with the pair of 7581a's and then compared to the special El 38 and El39 combo.  My adapters should be here in a week or so and then will start burnin.  Has the blue glow developed any more over time or pretty static?



Hi cf...about to Don (sorry D!) my Empyreans after another 5 hours or so and see whether that bass is hitting harder yet...the acid test will be if (and when?!) it can do so at _low_ volume level, which is what I find remarkable about the 'special' 38/39 combo, and without being too dominant when given more juice...such a feat I've never found any other driver/power combination to match ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I did notice that myself. Then at lower volumes it does not lose the Baseline like some of the other combos that I've tried. Keeping my fingers crossed for these new tubes while we can still get them at a cheap price! And speaking of price oh, such as it is if this comes close to the combo that we like so much with the special 38 and 39, they'll give those chance to rest up a bit and still have an enjoyable presentation. Hurry up and get these burned in oh, so you can try a quad!


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 7, 2019)

OK @teknorob23 , @connieflyer and all those I know are waiting to hear how things are progressing with the Tung Sol reissue 7581A...with over 100 hrs and about 24hrs on the right and left tubes respectively, I have just experienced one of those moments I've mentioned before that can happen during tube burn-in...ie. a sudden, unexpected leap in performance  :  stage has suddenly opened up and is now much wider; that bass _is_ now hitting even harder and with excellent detail and control; mids are also not trying to hog the scene quite so much (which I'm glad for, actually! ), giving treble a bit more head and 'air'. In other words, an even more balanced and cohesive sound.

And if just to confirm that these changes are _real_, my own indicators - more so than toe-tapping, for me - ie. eyes opening wide as if taking something stronger than is really legal(!); almost unable to move, and shivers up and down the spine have just hit me big time. That such a sound can come from tubes at this price is bordering on the criminal lol!!

In other words, folks, *don't hesitate*...just get hold of some of these Russian reissue Tung Sol 7581*A*s (with the *3* holes in the plate) ASAP. I posted a link recently for what looks a good deal on ebay.com (USA), and @teknorob23 linked a good source for UK/Europe. And adapters are available from either xulingmrs (at $27 the pair incl shipping) or member Deyan (Bulgaria and at $40 the pair incl shipping).

All I can say @ZRW0 is I suspect that using this tube *triode-strapped *could very well be delivering an even better performance than is already acclaimed by users as pentode in power amps (which is often the case of course, with strapping giving a more linear performance ). And so I - and everyone else - must thank you once again for that inspired suggestion for me to convert it and try in our amps...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## ZRW0

hypnos1 said:


> OK @teknorob23 , @connieflyer and all those I know are waiting to hear how things are progressing with the Tung Sol reissue 7581A...with over 100 hrs and about 24hrs on the right and left tubes respectively, I have just experienced one of those moments I've mentioned before that can happen during tube burn-in...ie. a sudden, unexpected leap in performance  :  stage has suddenly opened up and is now much wider; that bass _is_ now hitting even harder and with excellent detail and control; mids are also not trying to hog the scene quite so much (which I'm glad for, actually! ), giving treble a bit more head and 'air'. In other words, an even more balanced and cohesive sound.
> 
> And if just to confirm that these changes are _real_, my own indicators - more so than toe-tapping, for me - ie. eyes opening wide as if taking something stronger than is really legal(!); almost unable to move, and shivers up and down the spine have just hit me big time. That such a sound can come from tubes at this price is bordering on the criminal lol!!
> 
> ...


You're very welcome Sir.
I'm myself totally fund of those cheap, easy to find reissued tubes.
Combined with quad CV4003 (Military Millard NOS of late 90's) as drivers, Empyrean is just absent on my head, i'm surrounded by music, details and dynamics as they should and always must be.
Somehow the analysis of sound, wondering if it is right or better this way, or this way with an other tube has come to an end for me.
It's just the way I found the most enjoyable and the way I'm pleased the most with the Empyrean.

Cheers,

Erwan


----------



## ZRW0

And it glows blue on my system !


----------



## Scutey

Well I have just purchased a pair from Hotrox , the review of you're progress so far, h1, has whetted my appetite, especially re bass, as I love deep, fast, hard hitting bass, if they equal or even come close to the EL38 I shall be a very happy bunny, and these will absolutely, definitely, 100% the last pair of tubes I will be buying! .


----------



## connieflyer

Good luck on the no more tubes buying! I've been trying to say this for the last couple of years, so far it hasn't worked very well. Although with the increase enjoyment with this amplifier I'm not sorry that I bought all these tubes.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 6, 2019)

Well before everyone says it's their last tubes, I have a question - why have these tubes never been explored for adaption in the Euforia:

EL34, 6L6 / 6V6, KT66, KT77

Many of these are renowned as top power tubes for many of the best amps and most experienced users, and the KT77 said to be even better than EL34. I got some fantastic looking GEC KT66's for my upcoming amp. It looks like those are all around 6.3v / 1.5ah so wouldn't they just need an adapter, or is the architecture wrong?


----------



## Scutey

Lol well I absolutely mean it ... until the next nice tube appears! .


----------



## connieflyer

Yep


----------



## DecentLevi

Well folks, much to my bemusement, the 7581A IS A TYPE OF 6L6 / 6V6 and is also interchangeable with KT66. I believe KT77 and KT88 are interchangeable as well! So don't go out and try this just yet, but my working theory is that your 7581 adapters should also work for 6L6 / 6V6, KT66 - and maybe even KT77, KT88 and EL34. Perhaps @gibosi can chime in?

Furthermore it looks like the 7581A's must indeed hold their weight extremely well amongst counterparts. Interesting read, thanks to @leftside - Also let folks here know what are some other good options to try among these?
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l


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## LoryWiv (Oct 7, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> OK @teknorob23 , @connieflyer and all those I know are waiting to hear how things are progressing with the Tung Sol reissue 7581A...with over 100 hrs and about 24hrs on the right and left tubes respectively, I have just experienced one of those moments I've mentioned before that can happen during tube burn-in...ie. a sudden, unexpected leap in performance  :  stage has suddenly opened up and is now much wider; that bass _is_ now hitting even harder and with excellent detail and control; mids are also not trying to hog the scene quite so much (which I'm glad for, actually! ), giving treble a bit more head and 'air'. In other words, an even more balanced and cohesive sound.
> 
> And if just to confirm that these changes are _real_, my own indicators - more so than toe-tapping, for me - ie. eyes opening wide as if taking something stronger than is really legal(!); almost unable to move, and shivers up and down the spine have just hit me big time. That such a sound can come from tubes at this price is bordering on the criminal lol!!
> 
> ...


As I acclimate to the wild and wooly world of tube amps at times it seems much of my prior "knowledge" is obsolete or even counterproductive. As an example, I pulled the TS 7581A data sheet just for fun and was struck by the operating characteristics as a triode including 5% THD. In my solid state days that would have me running for the exits! Can anyone explain why that is not an audibly negative factor in this context?


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> As I acclimate to the wild and wooly world of tube amps at times it seems much of my prior "knowledge" is obsolete or even counterproductive. As an example, I pulled the TS 7581A data sheet just for fun and was struck by the operating characteristics as a triode including 5% THD. In my solid state days that would have me running for the exits! Can anyone explain why that is not an audibly negative factor in this context?



Hi LW.

Fear not, mon ami...tubes will always have higher THD figures especially than solid state! This is, in fact, precisely why such users as for guitar amps love 'em.... however, we hi-fi nuts do NOT want _too_ much lol!  Tube 'distortion' is also precisely what we love about tube amps vs SS!! 

So what is _'too' _much? Well it would appear that anything below 10% (_Total_)  - for tubes - is likely to be perfectly OK and unnoticeable to most folks. And so 5% is, actually, not a bad figure at all lol. And don't forget, this will be with the tube driven much harder than it ever is in our amps! And so I would imagine that if it were indeed at all intrusive in any way, @ZRW0 's _four_, pushed much harder in his power amp would certainly show itself! ...(and he just _loves_ them).

And looking around at some other specs, even well established top class tubes can have this sort of figure...some a good bit higher!

Plus, apparently a more important figure than _Total Harmonic Distortion _is, in fact, _Intermodulation Distortion. 
_
But at the end of the day, the only thing that really counts is, of course..._how it sounds!!_ And I myself have experienced nothing untoward _whatsoever _from the two I now have running...on the contrary, as I mentioned a while back, turning the volume up to unlistenable levels pushed my EL39 into bad distortion, while the 7581A stayed completely trouble-free .

And so hopefully, LW, this puts your mind at rest a bit more...and hopefully hasn't given you indigestion (as I'm wont to do sometimes lol! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 7, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Well folks, much to my bemusement, the 7581A IS A TYPE OF 6L6 / 6V6 and is also interchangeable with KT66. I believe KT77 and KT88 are interchangeable as well! So don't go out and try this just yet, but my working theory is that your 7581 adapters should also work for 6L6 / 6V6, KT66 - and maybe even KT77, KT88 and EL34. Perhaps @gibosi can chime in?
> 
> Furthermore it looks like the 7581A's must indeed hold their weight extremely well amongst counterparts. Interesting read, thanks to @leftside - Also let folks here know what are some other good options to try among these?
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l



Yo DL...the 7581A is basically a 6L6, but with more rugged internals/plate that can be pushed harder, if wanted. Hence I asked Mrsx to list her adapter as for 6L6/7581.

Specs are_ similar_ for the KT66, and pinout is the same (being, basically, the European version of the American 6L6 versions - the more powerful ones that is - but in a different bottle...with other differences also...hence its name _Kinkless_ Tetrode [KT]).

Now, whether these European tubes will sound the same as the Russian reissue Tung Sol 7581A is another matter of course - especially in our amps, and not specifically configured-for. Only trial and error will give any meaningful answer...CJ

ps. @connieflyer did in fact already point out 5 days ago (page 452) that the 7581A is the same family as 6L6 versions...


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> Fear not, mon ami...tubes will always have higher THD figures especially than solid state! This is, in fact, precisely why such users as for guitar amps love 'em.... however, we hi-fi nuts do NOT want _too_ much lol!  Tube 'distortion' is also precisely what we love about tube amps vs SS!!
> 
> ...


No indigestion, only appreciation, more knowledge and a bit better perspective.

It's easy to get lost in specs. but with the exception of assuring that tube choices are compatible and won't blow up the amp., I believe that given the very similar design with the exception of ability to push total volts a bit higher in Euforia, what is safe for Euforia is safe for Elise, correct?

In any case, I agree "the ears rule." Thank you, @hypnos1, as always.
-LW


----------



## connieflyer

My order from the tubestore came in a day early.  Tubes look to be nos and boxes are perfect, no damage.  Three hole plates just like they advertised.  Matched pair. Just have to wait for adapters now.


----------



## mordy

At the moment, the best price for the 3-hole 7581A on ebay.com ($47 the pair, with just $7 shipping in USA) seems to be : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tung-Sol-7581A-6L6-type-amp-tubes-Brand-NEW-in-Box/143024926181?

I do want to point out that this listing has a best offer feature. Nothing wrong in throwing in a low ball offer - a good seller will counter offer and you can save money. And sometimes the seller responds positively to a real low ball offer and accepts it.

Re the defective adapter from China:  A reputable seller wants to keep the feedback good and will offer free replacements or money back. I have had several adapters fail from different sellers. One seller refused to replace an adapter where one of the octal pins fell off - no more business from me....

Deyan will do his best to keep people happy and he will tackle any specific project and enjoys challenging and unusual adaptions.


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## triggsviola (Oct 7, 2019)

I know we're all going crazy over the 7581a situation, but I wanted to say that I left music running through the Feliks for a couple days with my EL38s. When I came back to them, holy crap! I get it. The bass control, the bass detail. Before, I though bass was just bass. But now the bass has detail, especially with my Utopia headphones.  Like, the difference between a bass clarinet and a tuba has never been so apparent. Also the difference between a bass clarinet playing with a tuba, vs a bass clarinet playing with a bari sax. Wow. I've been missing so much! I'm very happy for now. Of course, I have 4 7581a tubes coming in. How could I not? They're so inexpensive.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> No indigestion, only appreciation, more knowledge and a bit better perspective.
> 
> It's easy to get lost in specs. but with the exception of assuring that tube choices are compatible and won't blow up the amp., I believe that given the very similar design with the exception of ability to push total volts a bit higher in Euforia, what is safe for Euforia is safe for Elise, correct?
> 
> ...



Yes indeed LW...I see no reason at all why the 7581A tube shouldn't do wonders for Elise also...in fact, given her slightly 'lighter' presentation than Euforia, I personally would relish the extras lol! 

And yes again, it can't be emphasised enough that in this world of 'hi-fi' it is indeed one's _*own*_ ears that are all that counts at the end of the day!! ...


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> I know we're all going crazy over the 7581a situation, but I wanted to say that I left music running through the Feliks for a couple days with my EL38s. When I came back to them, holy crap! I get it. The bass control, the bass detail. Before, I though bass was just bass. But now the bass has detail, especially with my Utopia headphones.  Like, the difference between a bass clarinet and a tuba has never been so apparent. Also the difference between a bass clarinet playing with a tuba, vs a bass clarinet playing with a bari sax. Wow. I've been missing so much! I'm very happy for now. Of course, I have 4 7581a tubes coming in. How could I not? They're so inexpensive.



Hi triggs. Glad you too have discovered the magic of the EL38...a superb tube...(you should hear the EL39 lol! ...a shame supplies at a reasonable price have dried up). 

Mind you, with the 7581A performing as it is in my own system, and with plentiful supplies at silly cheap (considering) prices, I have to admit this tube is the better buy...(but I'm not getting rid of my 'special' Mazda EL38/EL39 combo _just _yet!! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

And just a quick further update on you-know-what guys...finished an adapter yesterday (so I don't have to keep using my modded EL39 one with anode wire flapping in the breeze lol! ), and popped in a 7581A as driver to 2x as powers...and..._yeuch!... _*However*, it simply reminded me to take some of my own medicine and *NOT *take it at face value straight away...especially when following on from a totally different tube family. Anyway, after several hours' cooking things were (thankfully) _much_ better. But as a driver its output is not quite as high as the EL11, so can't yet assess it properly with such a volume imbalance. But already it's now sounding very promising...will have to get a move on with the other adapter!! ...'Bye for now...CJ

ps @connieflyer ...the faint blue glow has actually got a bit brighter, so will try to get a long exposure shot with the Nikon some time soon. But nothing like yours @ZRW0 ..._merde!!_ )...CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

While waiting for the 7185 adapters, thought I would roll some old favorites. Very nice combo here, "Joybringers" and El 38 clear.  UT you might remember these, I got the 6n7G's from you back in the old Elise days.  Still a great sounding tube,  first time pairing it with the El 38's and this combo wants for nothing.  Thanks again "old man"!


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys...a few more hours on one of the 7581As as driver to those as powers, and unless things change dramatically in the days to come, it's looking like my mesh plate EL11s have nothing to worry about lol!  Although still early days of course, it has a long way to go to match the Valvos...bass especially is still rather boomy, and not hitting anywhere near as solidly or with the same detail. I had expected it to develop a bit more than this by now, but I can't give a definitive finding just yet...this is in my own system of course. As usual, more time will tell......BFN...


----------



## connieflyer

Hello CJ, good to hear about the driver tube so far. Not sure I'm going to follow down that road yet or not. It sounds interesting but I have so many driver tubes, of course if this turned out to be the equal 11 mesh plates oh, of course that would be entirely different. But I also wonder how much the adapter has to do with the sonics. I have ordered a pair of adapters from mrs. X and they are on the way in. I'm thinking with the adapters that you build using the good silver wire how much difference that would make if any. Time will tell I suppose but good luck with that driver tube hope it straightens itself out soon. All the best


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, good to hear about the driver tube so far. Not sure I'm going to follow down that road yet or not. It sounds interesting but I have so many driver tubes, of course if this turned out to be the equal 11 mesh plates oh, of course that would be entirely different. But I also wonder how much the adapter has to do with the sonics. I have ordered a pair of adapters from mrs. X and they are on the way in. I'm thinking with the adapters that you build using the good silver wire how much difference that would make if any. Time will tell I suppose but good luck with that driver tube hope it straightens itself out soon. All the best



Yo cf...I'm still holding out hope that the 7581A as driver improves in the days to come. Even if it can't match the EL11 (especially the mesh-plate ones!), if it can come _somewhere_ near then at the price it could well be a contender for folks who don't have an arsenal of top rated drivers to choose from .

And I am indeed looking forward to seeing if my own adapters, using OCC silver and copper wires are any better sounding than Mrsx's ...I should certainly hope so lol!! But nothing's ever guaranteed in this hobby of ours lol!!


----------



## Johnnysound (Oct 9, 2019)

..


----------



## UntilThen

Johnnysound said:


> 4 x RFT EL12N powers, TFK ECC801S drivers, Mullard CV4004 as “B” preamp



Hi Johnny, nice to meet you. Don't think we've met. Soon as I finish dinner I'll reply. Btw, that's an impressive looking preamp with those EL12N tubes. You obviously are into this hobby. I'm on the other hand trying to get out of it. The harder I try to get out of it, the deeper I go. Strange logic isn't it?


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 9, 2019)

Well Johnny, your post covers quite a few things. I'll just focus on one - my impending SET amp - Berlin I call it for ease of reference. The reason being it will have Telefunken EL11 as driver tubes and Telefunken EL12 spez as power tubes. Telefunken old factory was in Berlin, hence the name.

Why did I choose these tubes for my Glenn custom made transformer coupled SET (Single Ended Triode) amp? Well when I was still in this thread in the early days when Colin started adapting these tubes for usage in Euforia, I was an early adopter. Even in an OTL amp like Elise that is designed for 6sn7 and 6as7, these EL tubes as strapped triodes sounded beautiful. However I was plagued by noise, hum and what not. Only the EL12N seem to fare pretty well without the noise gremlins. Is it adapters, tubes or just the amp biasing not right, I don't know. Eventually I gave up and return to 6sn7 and 6as7 - which I think sounded just as good. It is after all the tubes that Elise and Euforia are designed for. But I'm not one to critique others on how they want to enjoy these amps. After all, it was through these experiments by Hypnos1, that these tubes together with EL3N, gain recognition and acceptance. That is a very good thing that Hypnos1 has done. He's a pioneer in this sense and deserve the recognition. Never mind those who try to mock him. That's pretty sad. Happens in this hobby. People just aren't mature enough.

At the time that Colin was experimenting with the EL tubes, I did a bit of google. In the Review-33 thread, a group of Siemens Klangfilm amp fans were speaking highly of the EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez. There weren't much impressions but they love these tubes and prefer it to KT77, EL34, etc, even though the EL12 and EL12 spez were predecessor of EL34. Also in the Elekit TU-8200 thread, this gentleman loves the EL12 spez over the other power tubes such as KT88, etc. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...eaker-amp-review.722633/page-35#post-12726831

So that's the reason why I'm having Glenn build me a SET transfo coupled amp. The tubes are run as strapped triode, not pentodes because I believe they sound better as strapped triodes. He's using good sounding and expensive Lundahl transformers. As you probably know, in a  transfo coupled amp, the transformers are very important.

Having gone through many OTL amps and now in possession of 2 transformer coupled tube amps (ALO Audio Studio Six & Woo Audio WA22), I find these amps quieter, having a more precise and nuanced tone. Details and clarity are first class. I'm not one for very strong bass. I prefer bass that is tight and controlled, with good extensions. These amps deliver that. Berlin will be transformer coupled too.

Anyway, enjoy your gear and music. For stereo, I've my big power integrated amps in the Sansui AU-Alpha 907mr and Sansui AU-717 and Redgum Rgi120enr black series amps. They drive my floor standing speakers - Axis LS88 and my super monitor - Axis Voicebox S. Hence my headphone amps are strictly for headphones primarily. Berlin will have 10 watts output and could drive high efficiency speakers like Zu Omens easily to loud levels in a small room.

Cheers
UT


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> 4 x RFT EL12N powers, TFK ECC801S drivers, Mullard CV4004 as “B” preamp, Euforia with Valvo EL11/Philips EL39 as main preamp.
> 
> What can I say ?  4xEL39s  were the very best power tubes that I have had the pleasure to experience in my power amp: deeply musical, 3D,  powerful, accurate, detailed, big sounding and the deepest bass ever, (easily superior to even  SS amps) ...and in terms of musical accuracy and refinement FAR above any current production tubes, including the excellent KT77s or the mighty KT150...
> 
> ...



Hi J.

Yes indeed, I'm quite sure the EL39 is in fact a truly reference tube...and I so wish it were more freely available and at a good price lol!  But the EL12N surely is extremely good value for money, and obviously performs much better when pushed harder in a power amp compared to such as Euforia. Glad you like it ...

ps. It would be very interesting to see how the Russian reissue Tung Sol 7581A sounds in your Jolida?...a good few 6L6/KT66 etc folks have certainly raved about this 'upstart' lol!!  And as a power tube in my own system at least, is punching _well_ above its price point...CHEERS!


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 9, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Well Johnny, your post covers quite a few things. I'll just focus on one - my impending SET amp - Berlin I call it for ease of reference. The reason being it will have Telefunken EL11 as driver tubes and Telefunken EL12 spez as power tubes. Telefunken old factory was in Berlin, hence the name.
> 
> Why did I choose these tubes for my Glenn custom made transformer coupled SET (Single Ended Triode) amp? Well when I was still in this thread in the early days when Colin started adapting these tubes for usage in Euforia, I was an early adopter. Even in an OTL amp like Elise that is designed for 6sn7 and 6as7, these EL tubes as strapped triodes sounded beautiful. However I was plagued by noise, hum and what not. Only the EL12N seem to fare pretty well without the noise gremlins. Is it adapters, tubes or just the amp biasing not right, I don't know. Eventually I gave up and return to 6sn7 and 6as7 - which I think sounded just as good. It is after all the tubes that Elise and Euforia are designed for. But I'm not one to critique others on how they want to enjoy these amps. After all, it was through these experiments by Hypnos1, that these tubes together with EL3N, gain recognition and acceptance. That is a very good thing that Hypnos1 has done. He's a pioneer in this sense and deserve the recognition. Never mind those who try to mock him. That's pretty sad. Happens in this hobby. People just aren't mature enough.
> 
> ...



Hi UT...good to hear from you. Especially someone who's gone - and still _is_ going(!) - further down that deep rabbit hole than most other poor folks lol . And thanks for your very kind words...it has indeed been a long, arduous and somewhat controversial(!) journey down the experimental tube road, from its beginnings with the humble LittleDot MKIV SE.  But one that I still wouldn't have missed for anything.

However, it was always a saddening - and _confusing_ - issue you had with the various EL tubes you tried. I personally, along with most others, have found them to perform faultlessly and usually superior to pretty well all other top class 6SN7s and 6AS7G/6080s. And so I could never understand your own disappointments, M. My EL11s as drivers and especially the more recent EL38/EL39s as powers have always also been the quietest, least noisy of _any_ tubes I have tried over the years..._no_ amp could be any quieter than mine, not even an SET or SS amp!!  Mind you, no doubt £1200s' worth of mains conditioning, plus all cables (including headphone) made using multi-gauge Neotech mono crystal UP-OCC _solid _silver and copper wires (and which would cost a good few £thousands commercially!) have all helped somewhat lol . But others too seem to have similar experiences, along with superlative performance - and so here, old friend, I'm afraid we must beg to differ lol . And the icing on the cake is that most issues any folks may have had with Elise/Euforia were normally *heat*-related...something that could never be said of the EL family when triode-strapped in our amps...precisely the opposite, in fact . (And the same is now true of the TS 7581A, I'm glad to say! ).

So now, M, it will be very interesting to see just how the EL11/EL12 Spez combo sounds in your new upcoming SET amp. I've a sneaky feeling it could well be even 'better' (whatever that means!) than the GEL3N...but only time will tell of course! ...GOOD LUCK and CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Morning Matt, hope all is well with you. Nice to see you post here occassionally and bring your knowledge and experience to the thread again.  Before I bought the Euforia, Glenn had offered me a El3n amp and almost went for it as I had been using these in the Elise and liked them quite well.  Decided to go with the Euforia, it had come down to this or the Elekit TU-8200, am quite happy with the FA amp though.  Your new amp sounds like it is going to be a sweet ride and wish you all the enjoyment you can get from it.  Take good care of yourself and don't be a stranger here.  Don


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...you're right! They are indeed described as made in Russia...the plot thickens, as they do also have some Chinese Shuguang ones! It looks like the USA guy at New Sensor Corp, who seems to have organised nearly _all_ of the old tube reissues(!) really went to town here (unless others were also involved lol ).
> 
> So it will indeed be interesting to see what you make of them. Would also be interesting if anyone did a comparison with the Tung Sols! ...CHEERS!...CJ



In and being given a few hours to start running then in. Using jumper wire until my adapters arrive. Fingers crossed.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> While waiting for the 7185 adapters, thought I would roll some old favorites. Very nice combo here, "Joybringers" and El 38 clear.  UT you might remember these, I got the 6n7G's from you back in the old Elise days.  Still a great sounding tube,  first time pairing it with the El 38's and this combo wants for nothing.  Thanks again "old man"!



What tube make / type are the "joybringers"? I want some joy!!!


----------



## connieflyer

The time type is 6N7G


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> While waiting for the 7185 adapters, thought I would roll some old favorites. Very nice combo here, "Joybringers" and El 38 clear.  UT you might remember these, I got the 6n7G's from you back in the old Elise days.  Still a great sounding tube,  first time pairing it with the El 38's and this combo wants for nothing.  Thanks again "old man"!



Haha Don, I remember sending you the Visseaux 6N7G. It's the same constructions as my pair of Mazda 6N7G and they are beautiful sounding tubes and glow beautifully too. Enjoy young man.


----------



## LoryWiv

Don, for the 6N7G are there standard adapters from xulingmrs for compatibility?


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> Don, for the 6N7G are there standard adapters from xulingmrs for compatibility?



I guess these work in the 7N7 -> 6SN7 adapters?


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...good to hear from you. Especially someone who's gone - and still _is_ going(!) - further down that deep rabbit hole than most other poor folks lol . And thanks for your very kind words...it has indeed been a long, arduous and somewhat controversial(!) journey down the experimental tube road, from its beginnings with the humble LittleDot MKIV SE.  But one that I still wouldn't have missed for anything.
> 
> However, it was always a saddening - and _confusing_ - issue you had with the various EL tubes you tried. I personally, along with most others, have found them to perform faultlessly and usually superior to pretty well all other top class 6SN7s and 6AS7G/6080s. And so I could never understand your own disappointments, M. My EL11s as drivers and especially the more recent EL38/EL39s as powers have always also been the quietest, least noisy of _any_ tubes I have tried over the years..._no_ amp could be any quieter than mine, not even an SET or SS amp!!  Mind you, no doubt £1200s' worth of mains conditioning, plus all cables (including headphone) made using multi-gauge Neotech mono crystal UP-OCC _solid _silver and copper wires (and which would cost a good few £thousands commercially!) have all helped somewhat lol . But others too seem to have similar experiences, along with superlative performance - and so here, old friend, I'm afraid we must beg to differ lol . And the icing on the cake is that most issues any folks may have had with Elise/Euforia were normally *heat*-related...something that could never be said of the EL family when triode-strapped in our amps...precisely the opposite, in fact . (And the same is now true of the TS 7581A, I'm glad to say! ).
> 
> So now, M, it will be very interesting to see just how the EL11/EL12 Spez combo sounds in your new upcoming SET amp. I've a sneaky feeling it could well be even 'better' (whatever that means!) than the GEL3N...but only time will tell of course! ...GOOD LUCK and CHEERS!...CJ



Yes C, I spend about AUD$700 on the weekend on a power conditioner (similar to Isotek Polaris), Isotek Premier power cord and some USA power cords terminated with Australian plugs, Curious RCA interconnects and Chord RCA interconnects and the difference is amazing. Where I was once a sceptic of these snake oil, I'm now a believer. I might buy a power station next.


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> Don, for the 6N7G are there standard adapters from xulingmrs for compatibility?



I'm the other Don haha. 6N7G and ECC31 are the same electrically in specs so I use this adapter for both.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...m2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s&frcectupt=true

or the cheaper
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gol...m2c87f48660:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv&frcectupt=true

and yes I always recommend Mrs Xuling. We were good friends. Haven't contacted her for a while.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I guess these work in the 7N7 -> 6SN7 adapters?



No. 7N7 to 6sn7 adapters are strictly for 7N7 into a 6sn7 slot. 7N7 is nine pins loctal. 6N7G is 8 pins octal.


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> What tube make / type are the "joybringers"? I want some joy!!!



I think it's a silly name. I have a bunch of these 6N7G and they do sound beautiful but IMO, the EL11 and EL3N and EL32 as strapped triodes sound better - in Elise, Euforia and now my GOTL.

These are the 6N7G I have:-

Mullard ECC31
Mazda 6N7G
Fivre brown base grey glass 6N7G
Fivre clear glass black base 6N7G
Visseaux 6N7G - is with my mate Don in US of A.
Philco 6N7G
Some other generic 6N7G - can't remember the names now.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> In and being given a few hours to start running then in. Using jumper wire until my adapters arrive. Fingers crossed.



Well done bt...and from the look of things you linked the correct adapter socket pins..._phew_, I'd hate to be the (in)direct cause of something nasty possibly happening lol!! 
Now all you have to do is wait what can seem an eternity!  Mind you, if you're curious like me, you might find it interesting to see just how they change/develop over time. I regard it as a 'learning experience lol!! . But they do actually once more need well over the 100hrs to start showing what they can really do, especially when not driven so hard in our amps......CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Have just finished my next adapter and so more time needed yet for _this_ one as driver to mature before I can be sure how 4x 7581As sound...but patience is beginning to run out alas...I want to do a proper comparo of 2 as powers vs my reference EL38/39 combo (some time soon at least lol!)...BFN


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 9, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I think it's a silly name. I have a bunch of these 6N7G and they do sound beautiful but IMO, the EL11 and EL3N and EL32 as strapped triodes sound better - in Elise, Euforia and now my GOTL.
> 
> These are the 6N7G I have:-
> 
> ...



Thanks, @UntilThen. Tried EL32 as drivers into TS 5998 powers and and wasn't floored...a bit flat and "characterless" although quiet and clean sounding. Are the EL11 / EL3N substantially different?


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks, @UntilThen. Tried EL32 as drivers into TS 5998 powers and and wasn't floored...a bit flat and "characterless" although quiet and clean sounding. Are the EL11 / EL3N substantially different?



Mullard EL32 is more relax, the midrange is a bit pushed back but you get an enveloping 3D sound which I like. It's not so in your face so to speak. 

Telefunken EL11 has more gain, is brighter, airier and with a good doze of details and clarity. I really like it. Philips Miniwatt EL3N are almost identical - well almost is a wrong word because I hear them quite differently. EL3N is warmer, less treble extension and sweetness, less details and clarity. It's a matter of preference. I'm more of a details person - well I have it balanced out in my setup with the slightly warmer Verite and a neutral sounding Yggdrasil.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Yes C, I spend about AUD$700 on the weekend on a power conditioner (similar to Isotek Polaris), Isotek Premier power cord and some USA power cords terminated with Australian plugs, Curious RCA interconnects and Chord RCA interconnects and the difference is amazing. Where I was once a sceptic of these snake oil, I'm now a believer. I might buy a power station next.



Glad you're finally another convert to good mains conditioning/filtering and cables/plugs...have been peddling this for a _long_ while now lol! ...CHEERS! and g'night all...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Glad you're finally another convert to good mains conditioning/filtering and cables/plugs...have been peddling this for a _long_ while now lol! ...CHEERS! and g'night all...CJ



Don't forget to get a power station next C.  On the serious side, I might look into a PS Audio PerfectWave P10 Power Plant but I need to win the lottery for that at $5,500.**


----------



## Scutey

Yep me too, mine arrived today, using the h1 temporary method with wire, thought I'd try them on my Elise first before moving on to Euforia, just in case there were any fireworks!, anyway so far 4 hours and counting, and no problems .


----------



## UntilThen

^^ that looks neat.


----------



## Scutey

It sure does UT, the drivers are 53 year 6H8C, actually sounds rather nice, clean and detailed, barely started though.


----------



## UntilThen

Scutey said:


> It sure does UT, the drivers are 53 year 6H8C, actually sounds rather nice, clean and detailed, barely started though.



I think I have 6 of those unless yours are the special ones. Let us know how it sounds once it settles in with some hours.


----------



## connieflyer

Hi UT, still have the metal tube RCA 6n7 tubes as well.  Still never tried them.  Liked the Visseaux  so did not even try them.  I had a half dozen of the KR VT96 which is the US Army designation for them metal tube 6sn7 tubes and had used them as well.  Also tried the VT52's.  I agree with you on the El 11 tubes, though.  Just kind of fun to go back over some of the older combo's from the "good old days"!


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## Scutey (Oct 9, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I think I have 6 of those unless yours are the special ones. Let us know how it sounds once it settles in with some hours.


I have a few myself, an underrated tube, mine are the early 50's Foton ribbed anode, recommended to me by mordy last year, and I will let you know how they sound after settling in a bit.


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## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Hi UT, still have the metal tube RCA 6n7 tubes as well.  Still never tried them.  Liked the Visseaux  so did not even try them.  I had a half dozen of the KR VT96 which is the US Army designation for them metal tube 6sn7 tubes and had used them as well.  Also tried the VT52's.  I agree with you on the El 11 tubes, though.  Just kind of fun to go back over some of the older combo's from the "good old days"!



I have a pair of Marconi 6N7 but i'm not loving them. Just too clinical for my ears. The Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G are much better texture, 3D sound and luxurious vocals. Yes it's fun to revisit your old tubes sometimes.


----------



## UntilThen

Scutey said:


> I have a few myself, an underrated tube, mine are the early 50's Foton ribbed anode, recommended to me by mordy last year, and I will let you know how they sound after settling in a bit.



Yup that's what I have 6 of them. Fotons 6N8S or also known as 6H8C. Too many drivers hence I don't use it much. Might pull out a pair to try on the WA22.


----------



## connieflyer

I had my pair of h8c tubes in a couple of weeks ago oh, I remember when they were starting to be a rage on the Elise thread. It's a nice sounding tube. The Marconi's were good tubes also the dark glass ones at least and the VT 52 and of course if you're going to swap them and you might as well try all your various and Sundry 6s N7 tubes as well. When I sold my Elise I sold all the tubes that I had collected so far at that point with it, from what I read on the new app I was going to try just running all 6ns 7 tubes that we've collected.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> (And the same is now true of the TS 7581A, I'm glad to say! ).



It's very interesting that an amp using 7581 tubes is about to be born (TU-8800), that will also allow the use of 6V6, EL34, 6L6, 5881, KT66, KT77, KT120, KT150, 6550. I could be interested in such an amp to play around with these various tube types. Just when I'm about to retire from Head-Fi, along comes another wonderful toy. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...eaker-amp-review.722633/page-70#post-15238257


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yep me too, mine arrived today, using the h1 temporary method with wire, thought I'd try them on my Elise first before moving on to Euforia, just in case there were any fireworks!, anyway so far 4 hours and counting, and no problems .



Well done to you too S...am really looking forward to seeing how these 7581As perform in other systems - both in Euforia _and_ Elise...

ps. I notice one of your tubes is also a mini leaning Tower of Pisa...like a couple of mine. Ordinarily I wouldn't be very impressed with tubes that haven't been constructed more carefully, but they sound great nonetheless...which is what all that counts, really! 

pps.................... *UPDATE ON THE 7581A AS DRIVER*........

Actually folks, as drivers to the same powers, this tube is beginning to have me tear out what little is left of my hair lol! ...

With about 15hrs on the second and over 50 on the first, this morning I was ready to call an early halt, which is something I rarely do. After this sort of time, I can usually get a fair idea of a tube's _potential_ at least. But what I was hearing didn't have me holding out much hope alas! *However*, just another 5 hours later and things were, unbelievably, _much _better... easily approaching the PsVanes in fact. And so I shall indeed now give them a good few more hours in the hope they will shine even more...the 'flabby', poor detail bass having improved the most (as if by magic!!). All I want now is for the stage to become more open/3-dimensional, and tonal range be a bit better, and this could well be a serious contender in the driving seat......so, fingers crossed...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Oct 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Don't forget to get a power station next C.  On the serious side, I might look into a PS Audio PerfectWave P10 Power Plant but I need to win the lottery for that at $5,500.**



Hi UT...Power Plant?...Nah! I have a PowerInspired Regenerator to provide a stable 230V to my AirlinkTransformers (who are also in Australia now) ASF 3000 Balanced Mains Unit with special Avery Magnetics Filter System, and which has Edit : 5 power outlets...more than enough for me lol!! ...(even though the ASF isn't as pretty as the PSAudio gear...more 'industrial'!).



UntilThen said:


> It's very interesting that an amp using 7581 tubes is about to be born (TU-8800), that will also allow the use of 6V6, EL34, 6L6, 5881, KT66, KT77, KT120, KT150, 6550. I could be interested in such an amp to play around with these various tube types. Just when I'm about to retire from Head-Fi, along comes another wonderful toy.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...eaker-amp-review.722633/page-70#post-15238257



Yo UT...I've always liked the look of those Elekit DIY offerings, especially given the price! Or would you go for pre-assembled? And it is indeed very interesting to see a new model using the 7581(A?).

ps. Methinks it's not a _rabbit _hole you've fallen in, but a _badger's_ lol!! ...CHEERS!...and BFN...


----------



## UntilThen

CJ, I about to fall into a crater. A meteorite has landed. 

As usual, you’re spearheading new grounds in the discovery of new tubes, even though the 7581 has been talk about in DIY forums, you’re the one to make it popular here in Head-Fi.

Keep up the good work mate.


----------



## connieflyer

Good One!  Much worse craters to fall into than music!


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> CJ, I about to fall into a crater. A meteorite has landed.
> 
> As usual, you’re spearheading new grounds in the discovery of new tubes, even though the 7581 has been talk about in DIY forums, you’re the one to make it popular here in Head-Fi.
> 
> Keep up the good work mate.



Aha UT...a darned great _big_ crater, I'd say lol!  But of course you realise you would need them _all_ side-by-side for an A/B/C/D/E etc comparison...auditory memory is notoriously fickle, to say the least!!  It will be interesting to see which ends up your 'favourite'! 


Anyway folks yet *ANOTHER UPDATE* on the 7581As as both drivers and powers (like it or not lol! ).

You may be glad to know (I sure am!) that I can now leave my last remaining hairs alone...with about another 20hrs on the second tube as driver, I must admit to being way off re. my initial doubts about its potential as driver to the same as powers. My amp is now sounding right up there _almost_ with the best I've ever heard it...much to my astonishment (don't normally regard many of the 'modern' reissues of golden oldies too highly). But this particular one - ie. the Russian Tung Sol 7581_*A*_ at least (which is a bit different to the 'standard' 7581) is every bit as good as many 6L6/KT66 users say, even compared to the best of the breed...and better than many lol!

And I had another mini shock today...in Euforia as pre-amp to my Vincent SS integrated they were greeted even more favourably by the latter than other tubes I've used in this way...a perfect match in fact (with other tubes I get distortion if Euforia's vol knob goes much higher than 12 o'clock). However, as with headphone use, with the 7581As I can keep turning up said volume without any distortion at all - right up to max (in _pre-amp_ function at least!! ). And which showed up something very interesting/useful...ie. as opposed to a fixed pre out level (not in our amps), now being able to increase its level even further beyond my previous one I can feed my Vincent with more of what's coming directly from the tubes themselves. This was especially effective for increasing the bass response via the 7581As, and to see my speaker cones being pushed in and out more than with the equivalent volume level from the Vincent was quite extraordinary (they were obviously delivering quite a bit more energy to the cones than the SS amp could lol ).

And so, with the second pair of 7581As especially not at their full potential yet, I'm happy to recommend you give them a try...at the price especially, this tube is nothing short of stellar - doubly so in our amps that aren't even strictly configured for it! Count me _extremely impressed_ ...

ps This time UT I can't take credit for discovery of this tube alas...that's down to @ZRW0 's suggestion. But I will take _some _credit for putting my poor, long-suffering Euforia to the test (and risk?!) once more...
pps. Just one more mini shock guys...with the 4x 7581As in situ, my HD650s have _never_ sounded this good lol! 

And a quick photo of the surprise combo :


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Good One!  Much worse craters to fall into than music!



Are you kidding me? This is no ordinary water crater. It's quick sand.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...I've always liked the look of those Elekit DIY offerings, especially given the price! Or would you go for pre-assembled? And it is indeed very interesting to see a new model using the 7581(A?).
> 
> ps. Methinks it's not a _rabbit _hole you've fallen in, but a _badger's_ lol!! ...CHEERS!...and BFN...



It's tempting to get one pre-assembled or I know people who will pre-assemble it for me. My time is best used elsewhere, like enjoying the finished product.  I'm not sure I want to go into it though. I've already gone the full circle with the complete set of 6as7 / 6080 barring WE421a. After 2 years with those power tubes, I know exactly how each one sound. Even in different amps, they each have their own unique tone. Do I want to spend the next 2 years comparing 6L6, 6V6, 5881, KT66, KT77, KT88, KT120, KT150, EL12 spez, EL34, 6550, KT63, WE350B, 7581 ?  The answer is no.  I just want to roll some amps now instead of tubes. Every amp has their own unique sound signature even with the same tubes. This is where I love about designers personal touch and implementation. Of course not forgetting one's own setup of individual gear. Do I need to sample every tube amp under the sun? The answer is again a no.  I think I have sampled enough even though there's a lot more to be sampled. In life, it's about choices.

So my choice is to pick a particular tube and have it implemented in a custom made SET amp. That will be Berlin for better or for worst.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And a quick photo of the surprise combo :



As with EL3N driving EL3N, I'm reminded of Sakuma's design. The same tube driving itself. There's merit in that. 

https://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/el3n_se_sakuma.php

_Sakuma style.
What is Sakuma style? Well if you look at the Sakuma designs, you can see that he often uses power valves as drivers. Many times the driver is the same valve as the power valve. Sakuma has some interesting designs as well, like "the window of sound" and "two point earthing method" which, according to him, directy translates to good sound quality. Supposedly authority in sound is determined by the energy of the heater, be it directly or inderctly heated valves. Maybe if we look at that aspect, high energy on the heater means most certainly a power valve which has a low plate impedance. So to go Sakuma style maybe EL3N driving EL3N might improve sound quality?_


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I have a pair of Marconi 6N7 but i'm not loving them. Just too clinical for my ears. The Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G are much better texture, 3D sound and luxurious vocals. Yes it's fun to revisit your old tubes sometimes.


Hi UT,
More tubes - it never ends....
I have several different 6N7 variants - the K-R is very good, but IMHO the NU 6N7GT/T (tubular glass envelope) trumps the Mazda and Visseux. Hard to find but not expensive if you find one. Grey glass may sound a little better than clear glass - not sure; almost identical sound.
Just welcomed a new addition to my headphone collection - the Sennheiser HD250II. These are the most comfortable and relaxing headphones I have tried so far. And really great sub bass - LCD3 territory at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> More tubes - it never ends....
> I have several different 6N7 variants - the K-R is very good, but IMHO the NU 6N7GT/T (tubular glass envelope) trumps the Mazda and Visseux. Hard to find but not expensive if you find one. Grey glass may sound a little better than clear glass - not sure; almost identical sound.
> Just welcomed a new addition to my headphone collection - the Sennheiser HD250II. These are the most comfortable and relaxing headphones I have tried so far. And really great sub bass - LCD3 territory at a fraction of the cost.



It don't matter to me now Mordy. As good as the 6N7 family are, I haven't use them for many many months because I prefer my other drivers in my OTL. ... a lot more.


----------



## teknorob23

quickly becoming the best of friends....


----------



## Scutey

That's a beautiful looking set of cans.


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## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> That's a beautiful looking set of cans.



thanks, It’s early days but, first impressions are the verite closeds have the march on the stellias in terms of staging and many open backs I’ve heard. I’d not been taken by zmf’s in the past but these are very exciting, full dynamic, separation to die for and I’ve not I’ve heard the Euforia sound better... admittedly I am obvs still in the first flushes of new toy syndrome, but I haven’t been as smitten since I heard the empys


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## UntilThen

It's certainly a beautiful headphone you've there - Verite Closed and no doubt as spectacular sounding as my Verite Open. I think it will look and sound great with Berlin. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2188#post-15242363


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## Johnnysound (Oct 13, 2019)

..


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## UntilThen (Oct 13, 2019)

Good day Johnny. Likewise a pleasure to talk to you. Glad you're getting great results from your Jolida and Euforia as preamp. I don't know if I'll get to sample EL38 and EL39. There are just too many tubes and amps that I want to try so I've to make a choice or I'll get lost in the crater.  Besides in a SET amp, it's not just the tubes but the output transformers is most important - that's what Glenn told me and he use Lundahl transformers in the SET amps he makes.

Berlin is strictly a headphone amp for me. I might use the 10 watts available to drive a pair of high efficiency Zu Omens Dirty Weekends. It should drive that very well. I'll have preamp out for Berlin but I'm not sure if I'll use it much. My stereo system in Sydney comprise of Rega RP8 with Apheta MC cartridge and Avid Pellar phono amp, Redgum Rgi120enr black series 265w 4 ohms integrated amp and Axis LS88 4 ohms speakers and 300w max rating. Sometimes I switched in the Sansui au alpha 907mr (190w 4 ohms) instead of the Redgum. I'm very happy with the stereo system synergy and unlikely that I will need to use my tube headphone amp as a preamp into that system.

So Berlin is strictly a headphone amp - SET - single ended triodes. The EL tubes are used as strapped triodes. The EL12 spez is 425v, same as the EL12N. I'll be using exclusively EL11 as drivers and EL12 spez as power tubes. I won't be using EL12 or EL12N as power tubes because the top cap is customised to come out of the Lundahl transformer to the top anode of the EL12 spez tube - no adapter required. It will be fully customised. Glenn says he will run 425v into the EL12 spez to tap it's full potential. I have no electronics background and I'm leaving everything to his capable hands - after all he has created 11 x Glenn 300b amp - he sure knows what he's doing - he's a guru !  I won't even suggest anything to him apart from what colour chassis I want and using Yamamoto's or equivalent sockets.

I believe this amp will drive any headphones well including Abyss and HE6. It's more powerful than the Glenn 300b amp - 8 watts. Of course I'm not power hungry. I just need enough to drive all my headphones and a pair of high efficiency speakers - such as the Omega or Zu Omens. Speakers will come later. It's not a priority. If I need to listen to speakers, I have my stereo system described above. I rather keep speakers and headphone system separate. That's just me. 

Currently this is my headphone setup.

ZMF Verite Pheasant Wood LTD and Sennheiser HD800.
Woo Audio WA22 running GEC U52 rectifier, Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates, Bendix 6080wb
ALO Audio Studio Six running Sylvania 6sn7w metal base, Brimar 6V6G, Mullard OB2, Mullard GZ34 (Blackburn factory)
Schiit Yggdrasil DAC
Glenn Super 9 OTL amp running Mullard ECC33 and 6 x GE 6BX7GT

I'm very happy with this Head-Fi station. It's the best I've come across to date. No superlatives here. Just simply the best.  My future plans is Berlin (Feb 2020) and a year later, a Glenn 300b amp. That will be it for me. I'll try to be an astronaut after that. 

Sorry if this is being off topic but since you wrote a lengthy post to me, I thought I should have the courtesy to do a full reply. Enjoy your music.

Cheers
UT


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## DecentLevi (Oct 13, 2019)

_(copying my message from the 2359 Glenn thread since this applies to the Euforia)
_​Now then folks, I finally got around to comparing the sonic difference of my upgraded power cord vs. stock, and my top Furman power conditioner vs. direct to mains power.

Already I was using the Furman IT Reference 15i Discrete Symmetrical Power Filter, 15 Amp:









Using stock cables, I was able to hear a highly substantial difference in sound - overall more lifelike and resolving and smooth. Thinking I may not be getting the full benefit of this top power conditioner, I recently went for the *WireWorld Aurora 7* power cord. It's their 5th of 8 cords ranging from $60 - $1,700 for 1 meter. I got this one new in 1.5 meters for $170.








Instantly when plugging in the Aurora 7 cable I knew something special was happening! I was transported into a world of marvelous fidelity where every aspect just knew no boundaries and just does not stop - full stop! The sound I was getting now _(on HD-600 with silver cable and custom Euforia tube amp fed by Schiit Modi 2 Multibit coaxed along nicely with a series of two very nice USB components / reclockers)_ was HIGHLY organic / lifelike with that x-factor of realism and visceral impact, very much deeper into the scene, FR seemingly wider with treble equally as full but more smooth, bass went deeper and more thunderous, vs. more 'digital' and narrow soundstage with a freebie black power cord.

After enjoying this new cord for 7 days I just went back to 'dinosaur land', comparing it to a standard user's freebie black power cord directly into a generic power strip. I noted the sound now as a very congested soundstage and a 'gluey' instrument separation; everything sounded cohesive and good, but layering was somewhat glued together in a sort of 'blob'; very harsh treble on semi-bright recordings that did not sound that way with the upgraded power cord and conditioner - an overall artificial sound. Drums do still hit as hard, but are totally lacking the organic and and 'natural' feel. Bass was not as deep, and everything sounded by contrast as if it was lacking harmonics that I previously heard with the above two upgrades.

Next I tried the upgraded Aurora 7 power cord alone directly with a generic power strip. Compared to a generic black power cord I actually heard an improvement! Now I'm hearing a more resolving overall sound - smoother, wider frequency response with treble exactly as present but smoother and deeper bass too... but finally after going back to the Furman power conditioner with Aurora 7 cable I notice "TREMENDOUS, FAR REACHING improvements in every aspect" (sic) as underlined above; as if I were listening to a completely new rig!!!

Mind you, this much improvement was without even upgrading the power cord to the external transformer so the difference could have been even greater if I had upgraded all cables!





Above are three power cables:
1. generic black power cord
2. generic black power cord (extra thick copper)
3. Wireworld Aurora 7 silver-clad OFC 12 AWG copper cable with a flat design.

I was already using the 'thicker' black cable, but the tremendous improvements came when upgrading to this blue cable, and were noticeable both with / without a power conditioner, but heightened immensely with both together.


----------



## OctavianH

I think the most important are the cables at the output of the conditioner. 
Anyway, I had good results with Supra cables, and at the moment I use some of these Supra LoRad 2.5 SPC CS-EU:


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## connieflyer

Still waiting on the adapters for the 7581a tubes, so took the opportunity to try some combo's  I have not tried in the past.  This time it was a pair of Dairio EL38's for power and a pair of CV 1052's for drivers.  Strong vocals and treble.  Bass is still quite nice with solid presentation


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## barontan2418 (Oct 14, 2019)

First two 7581A adapters arrived so added them as drivers to my 7581A's power tubes already in situ. No where near enough hours on them yet to give any valid opinions, however running the 7581 as power tube and EL32's as drivers has been a success, up there with the EL11 EL38 combo in my opinion anyway.


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## teknorob23

barontan2418 said:


> First two 7581A adapters arrived so added them as drivers to my 7581A's power tubes already in situ. No where near enough hours on them yet to give any valid opinions, however running the 7581 as power tube and EL32's as drivers has been a success, up there with the EL11 EL38 combo in my opinion anyway.



Mine ordered from @Deyan on Friday less than a week after i'd ordered them. They look great, working as advertised which and the first pair of 7581a's have about 30 hours running as powers. So far they sound okay, very clean and open, but the bass is a way off the 39s. @hypnos1 i've lost track a little with burn in times, sorry i'm sure you've already mentioned it, but how long was it before you found they came properly on song? thx


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## connieflyer

Well, no adapters in the mail today, so trying a different driver.  Dario EL 38 powers and Marconi VT 52 for drivers.  Close to the CV 1052's a little more open, laid back.


----------



## Scutey

Well my adapters arrived today as well!. Managed so far to get 15 hours on mine, now I can burn them in properly without the wire failing.  Like @teknorob23 i'm finding them very clear, detailed, open, bass is good, tight, punchy and detailed, not sure if they're as good as the EL38/39 yet, not as warm/dark either,  but they are certainly promising, one thing they do need, imo, is a warmish driver tube else they could sound a tad clinical.


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## hypnos1 (Oct 14, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> First two 7581A adapters arrived so added them as drivers to my 7581A's power tubes already in situ. No where near enough hours on them yet to give any valid opinions, however running the 7581 as power tube and EL32's as drivers has been a success, up there with the EL11 EL38 combo in my opinion anyway.





teknorob23 said:


> Mine ordered from @Deyan on Friday less than a week after i'd ordered them. They look great, working as advertised which and the first pair of 7581a's have about 30 hours running as powers. So far they sound okay, very clean and open, but the bass is a way off the 39s. @hypnos1 i've lost track a little with burn in times, sorry i'm sure you've already mentioned it, but how long was it before you found they came properly on song? thx





Scutey said:


> Well my adapters arrived today as well!. Managed so far to get 15 hours on mine, now I can burn them in properly without the wire failing.  Like @teknorob23 i'm finding them very clear, detailed, open, bass is good, tight, punchy and detailed, not sure if they're as good as the EL38/39 yet, not as warm/dark either,  but they are certainly promising, one thing they do need, imo, is a warmish driver tube else they could sound a tad clinical.



Hi guys...will answer your posts en masse, if that's OK 

Glad you're finding them good on the whole already. But yes - especially you tr, you'll need many more hours yet for these babies to shine...especially for bass to develop fully.
As* powers* - in my own experience at least - it was well over 50 hrs before they came anywhere near the El38/39s. And it took even longer before I was happy with stage width/3 dimensional space and extended tonal range...(but a word on bass later ).

As _*drivers*_, my initial disappointment has turned into a fair degree of wonder. And so in this role I will stress once more...you *MUST* wait even longer than as powers before sounding half decent (in my own case once again, that is). I personally wasn't very impressed at all right up to 40 - 50 hrs at least lol!

As *foursome*, what has struck me most has been the mids presentation...and this is where the 7581As as drivers also provide more of that warmth you mentioned Scutey...much more so than with the 'standard' EL11. In fact, I have never heard such a wealth of midrange coverage before from _any _tube combination of mine....even the mighty ECC31 (basically an ECC32, but with common cathode).

And so, with a pair of powers well over the 100 hrs mark, and two drivers not too far behind now, all aspects of delivery are up there with the EL11/EL38 and _almost_ the EL39...but as I mentioned, actually with even _better_ mids lol! However, at this point I must confess to a revelation : after finding what my slightly different Mazda EL38 brought to the table when partnering an EL39, I swapped one of the 7581A powers for said 39 (in the left channel) and...WOW! Just a tad more solid bass, but even more importantly a certain _je ne sais quoi _that lifted the performance even further overall. Actually, it brought a little more treble sparkle to joust with the Tung Sols' mids, giving a very seductive and scintillating sound....and all without taking away the latters' wonderful treatment of female (and male!) vocals, not to mention all woodwind and brass instruments. It also helped open up the stage a little more and give the impression of being even wider. In short guys, and for me at least, this 7581A trio and single EL39 has taken me quite by surprise, and until I can do proper quick A/B with my previous reference combo, I would place it right up there around the top...possibly even _equal_ first, but with slightly different presentation.

All of which makes me even more eager to hear others' findings...either as twosome or foursome (Edit : or _threesome) _lol! 

ps. My adapter (for testing purposes) arrived today from xulingmrs, and performs admirably. Will find it interesting also to compare soundwise with my own DIY efforts. Nice that we have _two_ adapter sources to choose from! ...GOOD LUCK guys, and HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

It's interesting to read the evolving impressions of the Tung Sol 7581a. Sounds very promising as power, perhaps driver as well although for us Elise users it's heater current of 0.9A might preclude using as drivers with standard output tubes of 2.5A --> total for the 4 tubes of 6.8A,exceeding the 6.5A ceiling that I believe Elise has.

On another note, it appears one of the unique characteristics of the 7581a is a high plate dissipation of 35, and some say this correlates to "headroom." I don;'t want to overthink this, as if it sounds great that's what matters, but how does "headroom" affect sound quality? Is it capacity for transiently higher currents? Does the amp circuitry have to be able to match it for this to matter?

BTW, I'm one of those guys for whom:
A) A little knowledge is dangerous. 
B) Understanding the "why" helps me wrap my head around things and decide on the "what" I want to pursue.
C) (A) & (B) are probably a bad combo. as trial and error for what sounds good in our systems should probably weigh more than 1st principle reasoning.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 14, 2019)

@hypnos1 I do believe it was you who initially convinced me to go the power conditioning / power cord route, so I would like to say a big thanks is owed to you for the newly heightened level of sonic enjoyment I'm receiving from my Euforia (mentioned on top of this page). I am now not only a believer but an opponent (LOL ) _proponent _of power conditioning being an integral component to yield superior sonic performance with almost any hi-fi rig (with the exception of systems powered with an AC/DC wall wart, which I've tested to have no effect).


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 14, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> It's interesting to read the evolving impressions of the Tung Sol 7581a. Sounds very promising as power, perhaps driver as well although for us Elise users it's heater current of 0.9A might preclude using as drivers with standard output tubes of 2.5A --> total for the 4 tubes of 6.8A,exceeding the 6.5A ceiling that I believe Elise has.
> 
> (...)


Though I'm not officially endorsing it, I do recall quite a few combos operating stable at right around 6.8ah on both Elise and Euforia. I'm sure H1 may have better input on this. And at least there should be no worry at all on current draw if using the 7581A's as powers with other EL series tubes.

Hey would sometime mind to give me a definite answer whether or not KT66 tubes would be compatible in a 7581A or 6V6 to 6AS7 adapters that are currently available from @Deyan or Mrs. XuLing? I may want to give my NOS GEC KT66's a spin in the Euforia... in the name of science HaHa.

Another question: Does anyone happen to know the cathode bias resistance ohm value (Ω) of the EL39, EL12 Spez and 7581A tubes? The reason I ask is first out of curiosity if these three tubes are close to being properly biased on our F.A. amps, as well as a potential plan to configure them more properly for an upcoming custom amp. Scouring the web for data on those three tubes yields no such data, where it should be shown under the "Rk" ohms / Ω value but it's not there on any of the schematics I've found.


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> Another question: Does anyone happen to know the cathode bias resistance ohm value (Ω) of the EL39, EL12 Spez and 7581A tubes? The reason I ask is first out of curiosity if these three tubes are close to being properly biased on our F.A. amps, as well as a potential plan to configure them more properly for an upcoming custom amp. Scouring the web for data on those three tubes yields no such data, where it should be shown under the "Rk" ohms / Ω value but it's not there on any of the schematics I've found.


I thought Elise / Euforia were auto-biasing...are there parameter limits to this?


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## hypnos1 (Oct 15, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> It's interesting to read the evolving impressions of the Tung Sol 7581a. Sounds very promising as power, perhaps driver as well although for us Elise users it's heater current of 0.9A might preclude using as drivers with standard output tubes of 2.5A --> total for the 4 tubes of 6.8A,exceeding the 6.5A ceiling that I believe Elise has.
> 
> On another note, it appears one of the unique characteristics of the 7581a is a high plate dissipation of 35, and some say this correlates to "headroom." I don;'t want to overthink this, as if it sounds great that's what matters, but how does "headroom" affect sound quality? Is it capacity for transiently higher currents? Does the amp circuitry have to be able to match it for this to matter?
> 
> ...



Hi LW...'A' can certainly be _very_ dangerous in certain circumstances, which is when _caution_ must always prevail...in _all_ walks of life lol!  And although our ears and brain are the best judge of what sounds 'good' or 'right' for us as individuals, whatever knowledge we can back this up with not only strengthens our enjoyment through greater understanding of just what's happening during the experience, but can of course help us _possibly_ stay on the _safe_ side! 

And don't forget that the first _bit_ of knowledge can then become a springboard for further research, if interested/needed...so, mon ami, _stay curious lol!_ 
ps. head-fi's 'Glossary of terms' can be a good starting point at least for certain info : https://www.head-fi.org/articles/glossary-of-terms.13562/

As to your queries, 'headroom' does indeed refer to the effects/benefits (but sometimes overstated!) of higher power operating conditions. Re. the 7581*A*, its more highly rated internals/plate allow for it to be pushed harder for greater output (thus greater 'headroom') than the standard 7581 or 6L6. However, in amps such as ours that are _not_ driving them so hard, it's probably debatable as to the extra benefits lol!  And so, therefore, if the price of the Russian reissue Tung Sols were _much _higher than the standard 7581/6L6/GC, I doubt the extra cost would be good value for money. Mind you, I do always like tube versions that have been built more ruggedly...as per military use ones, even though that's not necessarily a _guarantee_ of better _sound_ quality! And despite the occasional Russian bottle having a slight 'tilt', it's otherwise extremely well built...

Re. heater power requirements, I personally would NOT want to be running our amps at 6.8A and do not recommend it! This is why I stopped using the excellent ECC31 as driver, much as I loved it...the total of 7A (when used with 5A of power tubes) had the amp running far too hot for my liking! ). But apparently the Anniversary/Special Edition Euforia does indeed have an uprated transformer that should be able to handle such a figure much more safely...




LoryWiv said:


> I thought Elise / Euforia were auto-biasing...are there parameter limits to this?



Our auto-biasing will indeed have the tube running at what the_ amps_ require, but this may not necessarily be the best operating point that the _tubes_ themselves are designed for! And which is what surprises/baffles me most about Euforia and Elise being able not only to actually _run_ so many 'alternative' tubes, but also to be handling them at what must be very close to their optimum, given their superlative performance (on the whole!). And if there was a _bad_ mismatch, it would soon be obvious to the listener lol! So, for us especially..._thank heavens for auto-biasing_...even though normally, a separate bias setting function is more likely to be closer to the ideal ...(if used correctly!! )...


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## hypnos1 (Oct 15, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> @hypnos1 I do believe it was you who initially convinced me to go the power conditioning / power cord route, so I would like to say a big thanks is owed to you for the newly heightened level of sonic enjoyment I'm receiving from my Euforia (mentioned on top of this page). I am now not only a believer but an opponent (LOL ) _proponent _of power conditioning being an integral component to yield superior sonic performance with almost any hi-fi rig (with the exception of systems powered with an AC/DC wall wart, which I've tested to have no effect).



My pleasure, DL...and glad to see another convert to upgraded mains power conditioning/filtering and cords/cables. I found this a long while ago with _all_ cables, and my graduation from an early Tacima conditioner (not the much inferior later _strip_ kind!) came courtesy of Acapella11 and a member at a local meet a few years back (the AirlinkTransformers Balanced Mains units). Looks like you now have a very nice combo yourself lol! ...ENJOY!...

ps. I myself don't see why there should be any problem using the KT66 in the adapters you mentioned (same pinout), and in _theory_, the old versions could in fact sound even better lol! But given our amps aren't natively configured for these tubes, who knows lol?!!...another case methinks of _suck it and see!!_...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

pps. Sorry, don't know the precise bias settings for our amps alas...


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## hypnos1

OK guys, just a quick note on 7581A use - and other 'alternative' tubes in fact lol - ie. re. *adapters*, and particularly re. _bass_ response @teknorob23 !!

This is the first time I've actually compared 3rd party adapters with my own, and as I suspected, my use of high quality components does indeed make quite a difference to the final sound...in my own particular system at least. But then, for my 7581A adapter I used teflon sockets, with multi-segment gold plated pin receptors (and beautiful they are too ), along with Neotech mono crystal UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires, with added silver/gold-_infused_ (not _coated) _wire!! So it's hardly surprising really, I suppose (thankfully!). But, of course, for such an animal to be made thus commercially, with sufficient profit margin would mean a very unattractive price alas .

Anyway, in short, I was actually rather surprised at the difference - and this with just _one_ adapter other than my own. So with more - especially _four!_ - I'm afraid those with highly resolving systems won't be getting the _best_ possible results from tubes that require 3rd party adapters...full stop! And which, given the sonic differences that even mere _connectors_ elsewhere in the system can make, this - to me - is self-evident lol...viz. all aspects of bass response; treble clarity/extension; soundstage width/3-dimensionality/separation, to name just a few!

However, despite this finding, I have to say that the sound from the 7581A with 3rd party adapter was still _*extremely good *_lol...and certainly a match for any other conventional tube IMHO ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well h this is very interesting. So you found that much difference in the adapters, so if mine ever get here I will have four of them if I decide to use it quad of the tubes, so that should be very interesting indeed. And if I find out for a hundred or so hours that these just don't cut it compared to my other favorites, then I guess my days of rolling tubes might actually be over. Well, I kept saying I'm not going to roll tubes anymore, and if this is the way things have to go then look at all the money I'm going to save next year!


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## connieflyer (Oct 16, 2019)

Well, came back to the special El38 and the El39 powers and the mesh plate El 11's drivers and this is the best I have.  While the others were very good, there was something lacking in each one.  The best of the other combo's I tried were the Dario EL 38's powers and Tung-Sol 6SN7's  drivers. They were the closest to the present combo, but prefer the mesh plate.  Also tried the Valvo stock plates with these powers but they do not match up to the mesh plates. I am still looking for more mesh plates but no success yet. The  7185a with other drivers and as a quad will be the last tube rolling for me. Now that H has compared Mrs X's adapters to his, and I have to wonder if some of what I am hearing from the mesh plate El11 is partly due to the tubes being converted by H himself.  I have some tubes I am going to try to disassemble and modify and see if I can convert the tubes as well.  Worth a shot.  Thanks CJ, and just so you know, I have not heard back from Lukasz regarding your demo Anniversary unit. He had been quite good about getting back to me in a day or so.  It has been weeks now and no contact.  So I will assume that they do not want you to compare the two units, and so I for one, have changed my mind about buying the new edition.  Even with the enormous  price increase that Upscale Audio is selling them for, I would have bought one.  Lukasz even said he could give me the same serial number as my Euphoria, but wanted an honest assessment compared to he Euforia, which I believe CJ, would have shone us. Shame, would have liked to have had it, but will look elsewhere when I decide I want another amplifier.


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## hypnos1

Yo @connieflyer ...I must admit to being somewhat surprised at the difference just one 3rd party adapter made compared to my own, and _in my system._ But was still impressed with the 7581A sound nonetheless, so I'm sure you, and others, will not be disappointed with your results. I will repeat however that the game changes when partnering one as power with an EL39 lol! 

And yes indeed, I would strongly suspect therefore (without blowing my own trumpet, hopefully ) that any tubes I myself have converted - or adapters I've made for folks - could well have the edge over anything else (even if not _quite_ as OTT as my latest for the 7581A!). I am, actually, so impressed with this tube that I am in fact converting all of mine directly once more so as to dispense with the extra adapter socket and make direct contact with the tubes' wires...at this price, I can afford to take the risks involved lol!  (but their rugged construction doesn't seem to be quite so 'delicate' as many of the really old tubes, thank goodness).

ps. I too wonder why such a long break at F-A...never been this long before without some kind of word. I hope I'm wrong in guessing some kind of sad event in the family? I shall give Lukasz another buzz to see if I'm (hopefully!) wrong...CHEERS!...CJ


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## teknorob23

first some good news, the bass has arrived with my 7581a's. Must be around 50/60 hours and its a quite dramatic change too.

then some more unsettling news, i noticed a faint hum at my normal listening volume which about half way, with Hugo2 red/yellow. The hum gets louder unsurprisingly as i turn the volume up further, until i reach full, where theres a fairly constant crackle. Obvs i dont ever listen at this volume but equally i've not heard this before. The Euforia is normally silent right up to the top, so i've made all the ususal checks, swapped rcas, power lead and swapped out the 39s back in place of the Tungsols, left for an hour and listened and its doing the same with them too.

I wandered if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be causing this and or what i might be able to check, that i havent already. thx Rob


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## triggsviola

teknorob23 said:


> first some good news, the bass has arrived with my 7581a's. Must be around 50/60 hours and its a quite dramatic change too.
> 
> then some more unsettling news, i noticed a faint hum at my normal listening volume which about half way, with Hugo2 red/yellow. The hum gets louder unsurprisingly as i turn the volume up further, until i reach full, where theres a fairly constant crackle. Obvs i dont ever listen at this volume but equally i've not heard this before. The Euforia is normally silent right up to the top, so i've made all the ususal checks, swapped rcas, power lead and swapped out the 39s back in place of the Tungsols, left for an hour and listened and its doing the same with them too.
> 
> I wandered if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be causing this and or what i might be able to check, that i havent already. thx Rob


My Euforia already hums at 12 o’clock. I thought that was normal for OTL. That’s part of the reason why I may be trading it in.


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## mordy

*If they make it, it hums.*
Personally, I would say that if my amp has no hum at normal to loud listening levels, I am happy with that. 
Having said that, the experience I have, after reading about people's hum problems that suddenly appear after the amp has performed without hum, is that it is rarely the fault of the amp. Usually, after much nail biting in some  cases, it is traced to a faulty tube or cured by cleaning the pins or just repositioning (switching) the tubes, or to an adjacent ( landline ) portable phone, PC or laptop.
In other words, there is hope in getting rid of it, but it may take effort to find the source.


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## connieflyer

I have never had hum in either my Elise or Euforia, not normal at all.


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## teknorob23 (Oct 17, 2019)

mordy said:


> *If they make it, it hums.*
> Personally, I would say that if my amp has no hum at normal to loud listening levels, I am happy with that.
> Having said that, the experience I have, after reading about people's hum problems that suddenly appear after the amp has performed without hum, is that it is rarely the fault of the amp. Usually, after much nail biting in some  cases, it is traced to a faulty tube or cured by cleaning the pins or just repositioning (switching) the tubes, or to an adjacent ( landline ) portable phone, PC or laptop.
> In other words, there is hope in getting rid of it, but it may take effort to find the source.



Thanks i suspect some variable has changed. I haven’t tried changing all 4 valves yet just the powers as they had been the only thing I had changed in a while. I will change all 4 today. There’s nothing new close nearby that emitting a signal of any sort that I know of, but from further a field it’s harder to know. The sound at full volume  particularly does sound like interference. I have been varying the volume while I run in the 7581a’s but that has been and issue with other tubes. I’ve pinged FA a note but I will try to eliminate other possible sources today. Thanks 

edit: tested with multiple sets of tubes with the same results


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## triggsviola

connieflyer said:


> I have never had hum in either my Elise or Euforia, not normal at all.



Mine doesn't so much hum as it buzzes. I've been assured by the people I bought it from that it's normal......................


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## LoryWiv

triggsviola said:


> Mine doesn't so much hum as it buzzes. I've been assured by the people I bought it from that it's normal......................


My Elise is dead silent....I did have a buzz when I 1st installed, turned out my cordless phone receiver was interfering. Moved the phone and no extraneous noise since.


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## Scutey

Sorry to hear you have the dreaded hum problem, my experience with Elise/Euforia is that it's nearly always been the tubes and never the amps, so I've always gone with a process of elimination, first tubes then the sundries etc, good luck in finding the problem quickly!.


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## connieflyer

When you hear this hum is it with headphones or use as a preamp or both?


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## teknorob23

connieflyer said:


> When you hear this hum is it with headphones or use as a preamp or both?



With headphones only as i rarely use as a pre-amp.


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## connieflyer

Okay, thanks for the info.  I had a problem with the pre amp out and used a audio trans inserted in rca line that stopped it. No longer need it,found it to be combo of tubes and interaction wih S.S. amp.


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## hypnos1

Hi @teknorob23 ...sad to hear you've fallen foul of many a tube amp lover's gremlin..._hum!   _Tubes are, of course, much more susceptible to sources of EMI and RFI that are around us everywhere these days (much more so than when tubes reigned before the arrival of transistors lol!), and which can manifest as hum, 'hiss', crackle of all sorts alas .
My Elise always had a very slight hum that didn't vary with volume setting, and never went away. My Euforia however was totally silent, once the prototype's initial heat issue was sorted.

With stock tubes in situ, and once _all_ possible sources of interference have been eliminated (including cables/connectors/connections; different source and DAC tried if possible; mobile/portable 'phones/computers/laptops etc switched off), a different location/mains supply needs to be tried, also if possible.

By the way Rob. Hugo2's output at red/yellow is far too low IMHO...should really be blue/purple (line) level...give it a try before anything else to see if any change .

I do hope you manage to trace the cause soon, otherwise it could well be just the occasional unfortunate case of a component on its way out (can and does happen, of course...but hope not!!).

So here's wishing you GOOD LUCK!...CHEERS!...CJ
_

_


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## hypnos1 (Oct 17, 2019)

.                                                                              *FINAL(?!) UPDATE ON 7581A AS POWERS AND DRIVERS
*
Right then folks, I must now admit to a very _bitter-sweet _confession : with well over 150 hrs on all my 7581A tubes, and 50+ hrs on 2x direct adaptations' wires plus one 'OTT' adapter, and with many of my favourite test tracks, the previous 'reference' combo - 2x mesh-plated EL11 drivers to 1x EL39/1x 'special' Mazda EL38 powers has _*more* _than met its match.

I never thought it possible, but for my own personal tastes - and in my own system - this combination of 2x Russian reissue Tung Sol 7581As (with *3* holes to the plate's sides) as drivers to 1x EL39/1x Tung Sol as powers is now delivering a sound I never imagined could come from my Euforia....viz...

1. Enhanced bass and treble detail/extension, in accordance with the quality of recording.
2. Upper bass and mids presence surprisingly greater than reference. In particular, male and female voices have more depth and richness (plus 'emotion'?), with an exquisite smoothness that counters even overly treble-oriented recordings. This extended tonal range also applies to wind instruments from flute, through trumpet/trombone to sax, horns and tuba.
3. Acoustic guitar - which I love! - also has an increased richness of tone that enhances a softer, lyrical voice particularly well.
4. Soundstage is even wider and more 3-dimensional, with pinpoint separation/positioning in space. This was highlighted big time especially in Fleetwood Mac's 'Oh Daddy' and 'Gold Dust Woman' from 'Rumours'...showcasing the truly masterful prowess of the recording engineer. I've never been so 'electrified' by these tracks!
5. Overall clarity across the FR is a notch higher...eg. the words " Morning...today's forecast calls for Blue Skies" as intro to ELO's 'Mr Blue Sky' have never been so clear. And this clarity brings a greater precision to entire recordings, without being in any way 'clinical'.
6. The overall delivery is therefore even more dynamic...even more exciting, and 'invites you' into the artists' performance - vocals particularly being neither too close (and in your face), nor too distant so as lose intimacy and involvement...for my own tastes, at least! 

I now understand for sure that the way I convert my tubes helps a fair deal in maximising these very welcome attributes, but of course such _differences_ should still apply between tubes from different families that require 3rd party adapters, but simply perhaps to not quite the same degree in total lol .

Whatever, today has been somewhat of a 'baptism in fire' for me, and I have mixed feelings about its consequences for my beloved mesh plate EL11s especially! But nonetheless, I'm happy that folks can - if they want to - probably achieve a superlative performance from their amps without having to spend a fortune. And I can only recommend that those with an EL38, or luckier still an EL39, try one as partner to a 7581A in the power slot, driven by 2x 7581As...if my own experience is anything to go by (?!)...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Oct 17, 2019)

Excellent review H, looks like you've covered all the bases and what sounds like, and I really hate to say this because how many times have we heard ourselves say this before that these sound like as good as it's going to ever get with the euforia. But then someone comes along with tubes we have not thought of or considered previously and proves to my utter horror that I'm on the road again, well what are you going to do. You just jump in there try your best to see if we can get more enjoyment out of our amplifier and various and Sundry parts. Now I am quite sure, and fact I am positive that this is the last tube rolling that I'm going to do with this amplifier. After H's comment about the difference in the adapters that he has made compared to what the commercially available adapters are  I know that my system is close to what he has, except of course for the all-important adapters. That being said I won't be able to get the absolute maximum out of any new tubes, so if my adapters ever get here, then this will be the last rolling for me at least with this amplifier. I am looking at one or two other amplifiers, for the future of course not right now. Well done H you have done it again!


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @teknorob23 ...sad to hear you've fallen foul of many a tube amp lover's gremlin..._hum!   _Tubes are, of course, much more susceptible to sources of EMI and RFI that are around us everywhere these days (much more so than when tubes reigned before the arrival of transistors lol!), and which can manifest as hum, 'hiss', crackle of all sorts alas .
> My Elise always had a very slight hum that didn't vary with volume setting, and never went away. My Euforia however was totally silent, once the prototype's initial heat issue was sorted.
> 
> With stock tubes in situ, and once _all_ possible sources of interference have been eliminated (including cables/connectors/connections; different source and DAC tried if possible; mobile/portable 'phones/computers/laptops etc switched off), a different location/mains supply needs to be tried, also if possible.
> ...



Thanks CJ, your reassuring words get down from the ceiling yet again. I have worked through all these checks and a few more, with the exception of moving everything to new location and trying repeating the exercise try to eliminate external interference. It came on while ive been burning in the tungsols so i was worried i'd over cooked something, but i did stick to 5-6 hour sessions with breaks but some of those had volume up to 3/4s. 

Its my wife's birthday today and i'm not sure how an evening of re-locating the Euforia and tube rolling is quite what she's got in mind by way of celebration, but i will get it done at some point at the weekend. Worse case scenario, i guess it has to go on little journey to see it's parents in poland. Fingers crossed it doesnt come to that!


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## hypnos1 (Oct 18, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> Thanks CJ, your reassuring words get down from the ceiling yet again. I have worked through all these checks and a few more, with the exception of moving everything to new location and trying repeating the exercise try to eliminate external interference. It came on while ive been burning in the tungsols so i was worried i'd over cooked something, but i did stick to 5-6 hour sessions with breaks but some of those had volume up to 3/4s.
> 
> Its my wife's birthday today and i'm not sure how an evening of re-locating the Euforia and tube rolling is quite what she's got in mind by way of celebration, but i will get it done at some point at the weekend. Worse case scenario, i guess it has to go on little journey to see it's parents in poland. Fingers crossed it doesnt come to that!



Hi Rob...the plot thickens, but not in the right direction alas! 

So, you're staying with stock tubes for any further testing, of course...and didn't raising Hugo2's output level make any difference at all? And does the hum and eventual distortion _increase _as you raise the vol level...again, with stock tubes lol? External interference/mains noise _usually_ remains the same regardless of the volume setting... and again, _increasing_ noise level _usually_ means either a tube(s) or the amp itself...but this isn't set in stone lol!!

And so, given the above are covered as well, and nothing changes/improves when you manage to test in another location, then it would certainly point towards the amp unfortunately...

Re. the Tung Sols, I can only say it must be a dreadful coincidence lol! ...you certainly didn't overdo the cooking from what you say, assuming your headphones weren't near to blowing!!! All four of mine had 9 to 10 hr sessions, often with just half an hour cooling down periods, and for well over 150hrs each at least. And all is still deathly silent...

I feel your pain when something like this happens, and I can only hope for some kind of miracle to get things back on track for you. And I certainly hope you don't spoil your good wife's birthday in any way for 'the other woman' in your life lol! ...the BEST OF LUCK, mon ami...CJ

ps. Rob, I just tried my setup with Hugo2 on just red/yellow output setting, and it's nowhere near  high enough for what I personally regard as a 'good' volume setting on our amps...ie not too much over 12 o'clock *max*, especially for headphones. Don't know if there's any possible consequences of pushing our amps much above this kind of setting lol?!!


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Rob...the plot thickens, but not in the right direction alas!
> 
> So, you're staying with stock tubes for any further testing, of course...and didn't raising Hugo2's output level make any difference at all? And does the hum and eventual distortion _increase _as you raise the vol level...again, with stock tubes lol? External interference/mains noise _usually_ remains the same regardless of the volume setting... and again, _increasing_ noise level _usually_ means either a tube(s) or the amp itself...but this isn't set in stone lol!!
> 
> ...



It certainly does and as you say not in a way that fills me with optimism. It is persistent hum, similar to what you'd here when something's not earthed properly, then literally as the volume knob hits the buffer a maximum a random crackling or popping begins in the right hand side, while it just continues to hum on the left side. The sound changes constantly, but remains until i tweak the volume down slightly where it returns to humming on both sides. As you say i dont think the running was an issue and the volumes werent excessive, as i was killing two birds running in my Verite Closeds at the same time, which for record are outstanding. I'm doubtful a change in location will help but you never know and as sometimes things just get inexplicatbly better or worse. Fingers crossed its the former and anyway you right i do have to get back to the other women, thanks again rob


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## hypnos1

Hi again @teknorob23 ...did you see the ps. to my last post re. the Hugo2 output level and consequent very high vol setting for Euforia?...it crossed with your own post lol!!...CJ


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi again @teknorob23 ...did you see the ps. to my last post re. the Hugo2 output level and consequent very high vol setting for Euforia?...it crossed with your own post lol!!...CJ



I didnt see, but have now. I use it as this level because i'm being lazy using the remote controlled H2 to control the volume. I've probably mentioned but i have sensitive left ear, from years of abuse and although i'm fortunate i still hear perfectly through it, i cant listen at high volumes sticking around 70-80db or i get residual tinnitus. Anyway i know where i am with H2 at red/yellow and i listen at  five to on the euforia volume which has always be fine, although i totally agree its probably not ideal. But i guess i could have strained something


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I didnt see, but have now. I use it as this level because i'm being lazy using the remote controlled H2 to control the volume. I've probably mentioned but i have sensitive left ear, from years of abuse and although i'm fortunate i still hear perfectly through it, i cant listen at high volumes sticking around 70-80db or i get residual tinnitus. Anyway i know where i am with H2 at red/yellow and i listen at  five to on the euforia volume which has always be fine, although i totally agree its probably not ideal. But i guess i could have strained something



Hi again Rob...so you kept H2 on the _very_ low setting but upped Euforia to 3/4s for burn-in. Don't know for sure, but that could possibly have not been too good for the amp's circuitry, but just guessing here lol! And have you tried another DAC? I know some folks have had issues with H2 alas......


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## hypnos1

Me again @teknorob23 ...re. the Hugo2, my own issue was with the crazily designed IMHO recessed RCA output sockets. My best connectors were too big to fit far enough into them to make reliable contact, and would have sent it back in disgust if it didn't sound so darned good lol! So, Rob, something to think about if even just for future reference!
Plus, another saving grace is the ability to use its remote control to in effect control the volume from Euforia via its (H2's) variable hp out level, as you say...


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Me again @teknorob23 ...re. the Hugo2, my own issue was with the crazily designed IMHO recessed RCA output sockets. My best connectors were too big to fit far enough into them to make reliable contact, and would have sent it back in disgust if it didn't sound so darned good lol! So, Rob, something to think about if even just for future reference!
> Plus, another saving grace is the ability to use its remote control to in effect control the volume from Euforia via its (H2's) variable hp out level, as you say...



I know they're ludicrously small rca, but i found this ETI Kryo plugs to miraculous in that they can accommodate 11.5mm neotech cable at one end and fit into the H2 diminutive holes at the other end.


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> I know they're ludicrously small rca, but i found this ETI Kryo plugs to miraculous in that they can accommodate 11.5mm neotech cable at one end and fit into the H2 diminutive holes at the other end.



Ah, tr...I went for the (supposedly better) KLE 'Pure Harmony' plugs, but had to file down the jaws to be able to get them anywhere near far enough into H2's sockets. *However*, even then the connection wasn't fully reliable. It wasn't until I bit the bullet and took H2 apart that I could see why...the positive cross-bar connection is set so far back, that unless the RCA plug's pin is _longer_ than average, it will _*not *_establish (and maintain) a nice, secure connection. I could not believe that Chord would use such a potentially problematic component in something of this calibre/price. And so I decided to bypass said RCA sockets - _and_ do away with _any_ IC connector (best option of all lol!! ) - and took my Neotech cables' wires direct to the internal 6.3mm hp out connections..._and it worked a dream!!_  And I actually found this output to be of a far higher quality, and far more impressive than the RCA outs...win, win! ...


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, tr...I went for the (supposedly better) KLE 'Pure Harmony' plugs, but had to file down the jaws to be able to get them anywhere near far enough into H2's sockets. *However*, even then the connection wasn't fully reliable. It wasn't until I bit the bullet and took H2 apart that I could see why...the positive cross-bar connection is set so far back, that unless the RCA plug's pin is _longer_ than average, it will _*not *_establish (and maintain) a nice, secure connection. I could not believe that Chord would use such a potentially problematic component in something of this calibre/price. And so I decided to bypass said RCA sockets - _and_ do away with _any_ IC connector (best option of all lol!! ) - and took my Neotech cables' wires direct to the internal 6.3mm hp out connections..._and it worked a dream!!_  And I actually found this output to be of a far higher quality, and far more impressive than the RCA outs...win, win! ...



way beyond my soldering pay grade, but one day! It would be lovely to never have to see another connector!


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> way beyond my soldering pay grade, but one day! It would be lovely to never have to see another connector!



Aha, way above mine also I'm afraid tr...H2's internal circuitry is insanely miniscule!! 

No, I daren't risk trying to do any soldering inside this miniature marvel...much easier (if not _quite_ so 'pure'!) to simply clamp the wires to the (well endowed) spring-loaded connectors of the hp female jack. If one didn't want to open her up, even easier of course would be to simply use a normal - but high quality - 6.3mm hp jack. But then, you're still back to that darned connector lol!! ...(but I'd rather that, than those awful RCA sockets! ). Speaking of which, if you haven't tried a different DAC, I strongly advise seeing if you have a pair of ICs lying about that have longer RCA pins than the ETIs, and give them a try...their pins look on the short side to me, just like my KLEs! I had similar symptoms to yours with my plugs not making good contact...???...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Oct 19, 2019)

Euforia preamp (Valvo EL11/Philips EL39) driving a Jolida 3502C with 4 x RFT EL12N, TFK ECC801S and Mullard CV4004 “box plates” as “B” preamp

Trying to use a better pic, I deleted not only the fuzzy one, but my whole previous post...thankfully both @UntilThen and @hypnos1 quoted it, so I suppose it is “preserved” there.  Some further 20 hours or so on the EL12N powers and the combo is now sounding...well, so ultra clear, transparent, dynamic, with a touch of warmth and such tight, defined bass that I am enjoying every minute of it.

This is all about synergy, of course:  the very  accurate, warm, slightly  dark sound and powerful bass of Euforia (so configured) blends beautifully with the open and neutral, “sunny” sound of the German tubes...that showed exceptional control tightening over the bass frequencies.  

Maybe I am repeating myself, but having _*another*_
“B” tube preamp against Euforia (with the same power amp) offered a quite revealing experience , specially if it is fitted with top notch, reference preamp tubes like Mullards CV4004 box plates and TFK ECC801S.  And yes, it sounds excellent, these top Mullards are well known for their wide bandwidth and extreme bass, and the EL12Ns could handle them easily.  Switching from “B” to “A”  preamp (Euforia)...well, they were so close, both sounding so good, but Euforia was somehow quieter, relaxed, confident.  The whole music presentation was free of any kind of stress, even at the most demanding passages.  Bass was at a very high level, with some music better defined than with the Mullards, and I expected that from the mighty EL39s...but I also give credit to the Valvos EL11, quiet and extremely capable drivers.     Anyway, both as preamp or power amp tubes, some members of the vintage “EL” family are showing their sonic virtues beyond any doubt...


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## Scutey

Came across this review of the 20th Anniversary Euforia today.

https://nikmind4u.tumblr.com/post/1...zfi2pM9gZWJAClFRtM3m4TZiKhl_-_crn-qGHzs5twf9A


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## connieflyer

Just read that review.  Does not give out much information, some sounds like it was copied off the website.  Does not say what tubes he used in the Elise to get betters sound, nor does he list what phones or equipment he uses, all would make a significant difference.  He minimizes the cost as well, the Euforia is now $2500 plus shipping in the U.S. and the anniversary $3500 plus shipping.  A thousand dollars for the few upgrades does not seem worth the it.  If we had a decent review of one, with someone that has the experience and the equipment to bring out the best and also a current knowledge of the Euforia, it would indeed be a valid review.  FA was supposed to get a demo unit for H1, and last I checked with Lukasz he said yes, but after over a month and silence from my last email about when he might expect one, I think, perhaps they don't want to risk having an honest comparison.  Just my thoughts on the subject. I was seriously going to get the anniversary amp, liked the look of it and have been waiting and waiting for their 2A3 amp to come to fruition, but have decided to look elsewhere.  Empty promises and constant push back on a new product does not bode well for me.


----------



## UntilThen

Johnnysound said:


> Euforia preamp (Valvo EL11/Philips EL39) driving a Jolida 3502C with 4 x RFT EL12N, TFK ECC801S and Mullard CV4004 “box plates” as “B” preamp



Picture of the Euforia preamp (Valvo EL11/Philips EL39) ?

I'm familiar with the tone of EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez, having heard them in Elise and Glenn OTL amp just to get a taste of the EL tubes tone.

EL12N is a touch brighter and leaner than the other EL tubes I listed above. Useful for some system or matching.

I'm still debating whether to use Telefunken EL12 spez solely as power tubes in my new custom amp call ' Berlin' or to allow the use of EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez as power tubes. Also have not decided whether to go with dual or quad EL12 spez as power tubes. Telefunken EL11 will be my drivers.

These are my EL tubes that I've already purchased for Berlin:-

3 pairs of NOS NIB Telefunken EL12 spez.
1 pair of NOS NIB Tesla EL12 spez.
1 pair of NOS Telefunken EL12.
1 pair of NOS NIB RFT EL12N.
1 pair of NOS NIB Telefunken EL11.
2 pairs of NOS NIB Siemens EL11.
1 pair of NOS NIB RFT EL11.
1 pair of NOS NIB Philips Miniwatt EL11.
1 pair of NOS NIB Triotron EL11.
1 pair of NOS NIB Tungsram EL11.
1 pair of NOS NIB Telefunken EL13.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> but have decided to look elsewhere.



Oh Don, do tell !!! I'll follow you down a new rabbit hole.


----------



## UntilThen

I was actually quite keen on a Feliks Audio William stereo tube amp. Might still be interested when I switch back to my stereo setup.


 

Meanwhile I'll go and spin some LPs on my Rega RP8.


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## connieflyer

Hi Matt, as to the El12's for power tubes on your new amp, of those listed, I would personally go with the El 12 Spez.  In my experience, I had much better luck with these. As to whether you go with two or four power tubes. I would imagine it would be how the amp specs out as to load and what you going to drive with the amp. I always prefer a little more power, than too little.  Good luck either way, D


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## triggsviola

connieflyer said:


> Just read that review.  Does not give out much information, some sounds like it was copied off the website.  Does not say what tubes he used in the Elise to get betters sound, nor does he list what phones or equipment he uses, all would make a significant difference.  He minimizes the cost as well, the Euforia is now $2500 plus shipping in the U.S. and the anniversary $3500 plus shipping.  A thousand dollars for the few upgrades does not seem worth the it.  If we had a decent review of one, with someone that has the experience and the equipment to bring out the best and also a current knowledge of the Euforia, it would indeed be a valid review.  FA was supposed to get a demo unit for H1, and last I checked with Lukasz he said yes, but after over a month and silence from my last email about when he might expect one, I think, perhaps they don't want to risk having an honest comparison.  Just my thoughts on the subject. I was seriously going to get the anniversary amp, liked the look of it and have been waiting and waiting for their 2A3 amp to come to fruition, but have decided to look elsewhere.  Empty promises and constant push back on a new product does not bode well for me.


I was able to listen to them side by side at Upscale with stock tubes and a Utopia. I wasn't able to listen extensively. I was actually there to solve a noise issue with my 2018 Euforia and we were using the Anniversary Edition to compare. Just based on my quick comparison, I have no interest in upgrading.


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## mordy (Oct 20, 2019)

triggsviola said:


> I was able to listen to them side by side at Upscale with stock tubes and a Utopia. I wasn't able to listen extensively. I was actually there to solve a noise issue with my 2018 Euforia and we were using the Anniversary Edition to compare. Just based on my quick comparison, I have no interest in upgrading.


What about the important information? Were you able to solve your noise problem?


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## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Hi Matt, as to the El12's for power tubes on your new amp, of those listed, I would personally go with the El 12 Spez.  In my experience, I had much better luck with these. As to whether you go with two or four power tubes. I would imagine it would be how the amp specs out as to load and what you going to drive with the amp. I always prefer a little more power, than too little.  Good luck either way, D



That's was the plan to go with EL12 spez. I have 4 pairs of NOS EL12 spez.


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## Johnnysound (Oct 21, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Picture of the Euforia preamp (Valvo EL11/Philips EL39) ?
> 
> I'm familiar with the tone of EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 spez, having heard them in Elise and Glenn OTL amp just to get a taste of the EL tubes tone.
> 
> ...



Hi UT, and (oops!) you are right, that pic was obviously not Euforia but my Jolida Fusion fitted with EL12Ns...Euforia is at the right side.  In this one appears with RFT EL11s, but one began to make strange scratching noises, so I switched to the Valvos...

BTW, you do have an impressive collection of EL11/EL12s !  Choosing the EL12Ns for my power amp was easy because I had a pair and a second  NOS  pair was readily available relatively cheap...but (most importantly) I learned that the EL12 “N” (the last version of the family) was the only EL12 tube capable of 400v as the EL34s...so it was “safe” to use it strapped as EL34s pentodes  in a power amp.

And yes, the EL12Ns sounded just a touch brighter and leaner (as power triodes in Euforia) compared to, say, the EL12 spezials, but I also felt they sounded a bit clearer and more transparent/detailed.  As powers  in my PA (or more properly said  as pentodes, transformer coupled) It was a different history: all traces of “leanness” or “brightness” disappeared, being replaced by a _*really*_ tight, deep & precise bass, along with outstanding detail and dynamics across the whole frequency spectrum.  Not a “warm” tube, but not “cold” either...I mean, it is not euphonic at all: neutral may be the word  (a virtue seldom found in _any _power tube that I know of).  And I am trying to be objective:  at least with *my* system and on *my* power amp (either driven by Euforia or by my “B” preamp)  the quad of EL12Ns powers sounded absolutely _terrific, _some of the best  I have ever heard on that amp.

Based on my above experiences,   I would suggest to use a quad of EL12s or EL12Ns (interchangeable) in your new “Berlin” amp, with EL11s as drivers.  First, it will be powerful, great sounding and able to drive any HP on earth (including electrostatics I guess), second, it will make a “world class” preamp (with pre outs, please !)   and third, flexibility: you will have much wider options to fine tune the sound by swapping EL12 family tubes than with the EL12 spezials...in my humble opinion of course !!


----------



## UntilThen

Johnnysound said:


> I learned that the EL12 “N” (the latest version of the family) was the only EL12 tube capable of 400v as the EL34s...so it was “safe” to use it strapped as EL34s pentodes in a power amp.



Thanks for the pic Johnny but I have to correct you on the EL12N as the only EL12 tube capable of 425 volts. If you look up EL12 spez, it is also 425 volts. Only EL12 has variations of 250, 375 volts. 

These EL tubes are predecessors of EL34. They are great tubes indeed.


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## triggsviola

mordy said:


> What about the important information? Were you able to solve your noise problem?



Kinda? On my amp I have to avoid certain tubes. Some bring out a buzz when the knob between 12 and 2 o'clock. Some don't.


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## connieflyer

Hello UT, I got a little interested in the EL12 Spez again, have not used it quite a while, with all the other tube rolling .  So Started listening to these with the El 11 mesh plates and they were plenty powerful, but compared to the El 38 special with one El 39, at least for me,  they have to go.  They are not as detailed and lack a certain je ne sais quoi,  seem to be a little bright, mids seem a like lacking on my system.  Of course the way you will be using them, in a different circuit they are bound to sound different.


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## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> Kinda? On my amp I have to avoid certain tubes. Some bring out a buzz when the knob between 12 and 2 o'clock. Some don't.



Hi triggs. Interesting (if not very encouraging lol! ) initial impression of the Anniversary Edition Euforia. I wonder if anyone will be able/willing to to give an extensive comparison with the current model...and as @connieflyer intimated, with different tubes and associated gear?...hmmmm...Can't help feeling the price really is a tad too far (especially with Upscale's added premium lol!!...).

Anyway, it sounds to me like you're still afflicted with something, somewhere. Did your amp have this issue in the exact same setup as the SE amp, with the latter totally free from said distortion? And what was their reaction? Or is it just in your own home setup/environment?
Whatever, I hope an answer arrives soon......CJ


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## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Hello UT, I got a little interested in the EL12 Spez again, have not used it quite a while, with all the other tube rolling .  So Started listening to these with the El 11 mesh plates and they were plenty powerful, but compared to the El 38 special with one El 39, at least for me,  they have to go.  They are not as detailed and lack a certain je ne sais quoi,  seem to be a little bright, mids seem a like lacking on my system.  Of course the way you will be using them, in a different circuit they are bound to sound different.



You have to take a pic and show me the EL11 and EL12 spez.  I can't run EL12 spez as power tubes in GOTL because I've to use dual EL12 spez to 6as7 adapter in a single slot and it doesn't sound right - terrible hum. However I can use EL12 spez as drivers in GOTL in the 6sn7 slot and it's beautiful. So my tubes will have to wait for Berlin.


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## connieflyer (Oct 21, 2019)

Well UT, went back to  an El 38 spec and an EL39 and the magic is back.  I think that for my system this is as good as I have ever heard it.  Will be very interesting when my adapters for the 7581A  finally get here, and I can get 150 hour burn in on them to go back and compare to this combo and see which I like better and why.


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## hypnos1 (Oct 21, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hello UT, I got a little interested in the EL12 Spez again, have not used it quite a while, with all the other tube rolling .  So Started listening to these with the El 11 mesh plates and they were plenty powerful,* but compared to the El 38 special with one El 39, at least for me,  they have to go.*  They are not as detailed and lack a certain je ne sais quoi,  seem to be a little bright, mids seem a like lacking on my system.  Of course the way you will be using them, in a different circuit they are bound to sound different.



Ah yes indeed cf...this particular combo outperforms any other previously...by a long shot! (in our systems at least lol ). But yes of course, things could (nay, _will_) be different in your own future setup @UntilThen ...no-one can know for sure 'til it's tried!!  But as far as I'm concerned, it's a crying shame the EL39 is a non-starter alas, due to its scarcity...it sure is one superlative tube! 

As for the Russian reissue Tung Sol7581A, I must confess to still being in awe of this tube...in my particular setup anyway (with 2x as drivers to 1x EL39/1x 7581A powers).

But something I have noticed with different test tracks - recordings that are overly 'warm'/short on treble frequencies can sometimes lack a bit of sparkle with this combo. But with _good_ quality/well balanced recordings, the sound is equal to my previous best, but as I mentioned before, with even _better_ mids performance than the EL11 especially (as per the 6L6/KT66 family trait, but not quite so strong as the EL34 - which I personally would find _way_ too much so in my system (Empyrean headphones especially!)....CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Here you go UT.


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## connieflyer

Hi UT, I looked at he William as well, but need more power.  I am looking at picking up a pair of Martin Logan Electro Motion ESL or ESL X and will want more power for these.  So the hunt is on.


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## Dobrescu George

Feliks Euforia in the house for me as well, working my way to post some first impressions and to make a Youtube video right now!


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## hypnos1

Dobrescu George said:


> Feliks Euforia in the house for me as well, working my way to post some first impressions and to make a Youtube video right now!



Hi DG. Congrats on having the Euforia to play with...and hopefully _enjoy_ lol!  Is it just for review, or is it yours to keep?!  And if new, I do hope you give her a good long burn in (and I do hope you're not one who questions the benefits - nay _need_ for more than just a few hours of 'running in' for all components, especially tubes, before performance is anywhere near its best...)...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Oct 23, 2019)

Hi guys.

I know I (almost!) promised no further updates on my 3x 7581A/1x EL3(2)...(Edit...should be EL*39*, of course!!! [thanks cf!]) combo, but have just tried the setup as pre-amp to my Vincent SS integrated and have now become a mids addict lol! .
This has highlighted the combo's superlative mids handling/delivery even more so than my Empyreans do...and more so than with any previous tubes I've tried over the years - _especially_ any 6SN7/7N7/6AS7G combo...*by far*!!

I had feared the 'full' bass plus extra mid frequencies might just end up smearing the overall balance somewhat, but no way...the extra detail doesn't impinge upon the upper frequencies at all. In fact it complements perfectly an exquisite treble - Joan Baez's voice has never sounded so good on her 'Diamonds and Rust' album, along with the deliciously delicate upper overtones of her(?!) steel guitar strings. And one of my all-time favourite albums - ELO's 'Out of the Blue' (in hi res) just simply blew me away .

What does sadden me however is that a certain degree of this magic will be lessened somewhat in systems requiring 3rd party adapters, as mentioned previously. Even dispensing with my adapter socket (very high quality Teflon) and attaching new UP-OCC wires directly to the tubes' pin wires brought heightened performance lol ...CJ


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## connieflyer

Hi H, mine have only got 16 hours on the first pair, but I can see running them pre amp out, even using the fotec 6sn7's the bass and mids are cleaning up and coming fore front. I am assuming you miss spoke in previous post where you say " 3x 7581A/1x EL32" instead of El39.  The other two adapters may be here today, and then I will go with a quad until burn in.  Wish there was a better way to burn these in, but I don't have another amp they could cook in.  Oh well, it is what it is.  Glad you like the pre outs,  I am quite amazed at how much the Anthem amplifier improves this way. Put on my bass track, and even with the low burn in and the Fotecs the bass was vibrating  my  chair with a smile on my face. Keep us informed of changes as you proceed, please.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi H, mine have only got 16 hours on the first pair, but I can see running them pre amp out, even using the fotec 6sn7's the bass and mids are cleaning up and coming fore front. I am assuming you miss spoke in previous post where you say *" 3x 7581A/1x EL32" instead of El39*.  The other two adapters may be here today, and then I will go with a quad until burn in.  Wish there was a better way to burn these in, but I don't have another amp they could cook in.  Oh well, it is what it is.  Glad you like the pre outs,  I am quite amazed at how much the Anthem amplifier improves this way. Put on my bass track, and even with the low burn in and the Fotecs the bass was vibrating  my  chair with a smile on my face. Keep us informed of changes as you proceed, please.



Many thanks cf for the correction...how on earth could I have made such a mistake?...(good though the EL32 is lol! ...but not in the same league whatsoever alas...).

I can only put it down either to early(!!) onset dementia, or my excitedly hurried need to post my (rather surprising!) latest findings .

Whatever, glad your adapters have finally arrived and that you seem to be getting some idea of the 7581A's potential already...it gets MUCH better with plenty more burn-in (I'd say a good 150+ hours!). Now my tubes and conversion wires have got well over 200hrs (tubes) and 100 for wire, I personally now rate my latest combo as *number 1*...my system obviously relishing it above all previous comers (including with mesh-plate Valvo EL11 drivers...and still can't believe it lol! ). And for my Vincent SS amp and Tannoy T6fs to also sound like never before is a most welcome added bonus.

ps. Back to the Empyreans just now, Mary Fahl's voice in the track 'Goin' Home' from 'Gods and Generals' drew me in something cruel, and in the last track 'I cross the Green Mountain', an unrecognisable Bob Dylan's voice was equally enthralling. And as if to reinforce my previous remark about the greater clarity of the spoken intro to ELO's 'Mr Blue Sky', the occasional background mirroring of some of Dylan's words was the clearest I've ever heard...spooky! 

So, mon ami, I hope your other adapters arrive soon...so that you too can try the 3x 7581A/1x EL*39* combo......CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Did I mention even better separation/placement and wider stage now?...you better believe it lol!...


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## connieflyer

Well, I have to admit, I may have misspoken  a time or two!  My mind rushes ahead of my fingers, and they forget!  Not my mind!  Second pair of adapters did not make it today after all. Who knows with the post office.  Great news about how you would rate these tubes,  gives everyone a chance to experience them if they want to.  Cheap, and available, doesn't get any better.   That track of Mary Fahl's is one of my favorites, as well.  Now, one more thing, put blinders on, do not look at any more tube combo's I am running out of places to put them!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, I have to admit, I may have misspoken  a time or two!  My mind rushes ahead of my fingers, and they forget!  Not my mind!  Second pair of adapters did not make it today after all. Who knows with the post office.  Great news about how you would rate these tubes,  gives everyone a chance to experience them if they want to.  Cheap, and available, doesn't get any better.   That track of Mary Fahl's is one of my favorites, as well.  Now, one more thing, put blinders on, do not look at any more tube combo's I am running out of places to put them!



Aahh cf...if only I could find some blinders that _work_ lol!  But promise to keep looking...for _them_, not any more tubes!!!  ...


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## connieflyer (Oct 23, 2019)

Well, I know better,but I keep following any ways! And am very glad I have.


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## hypnos1 (Oct 24, 2019)

Now then @connieflyer - and anyone else interested in the 7581A tube - you mentioned finding yourself in a vibrating chair with just a pair of these at a _very_ early stage of development, courtesy of your awesome speaker setup. Well, all I can say is that once you get another pair as drivers and an EL39 partnering one as powers..._strap yourself in that chair lol!!_ ...(after a good long burn-in, of course! ). I can't begin to imagine just what your Anthem and tower speakers will do to you...and any neighbours within half a mile!! 

I say this because this afternoon I had about the biggest surprise I've ever had/enjoyed in all my years of tube rolling....

I have already given a fair idea of what my own new combo brings to the table, but my go-to acid test for overall dynamics handling - ie. 'The Battle' track from the music of 'Gladiator' had me questioning everything I've previously gleaned from a myriad different comments/beliefs re. sound delivery. What I was hearing simply highlighted how nebulous/confusing/misleading, and downright _incorrectly used_ are many of the generally 'accepted' terms in hi-fiers' vocabulary...such as 'warm'; 'dark'; 'light'; 'neutral'; 'transparent'; 'sparkle' etc....many of which I myself have used on numerous occasions over the years lol! I personally now regard these as purely a mild _indication_ only, and not to be taken _too_ seriously!!

For example, I had always thought said 'Battle' track to already sound on the 'warm/dark' side, compared to what others - including myself - often describe as 'neutral/light'. But what was being delivered by the new combo (in my setup) would - by these standards - need a totally new set of descriptive terms lol! However, I gradually realised that what I was hearing actually had nothing to do with being 'even more dark/warm/dynamic' etc., but was purely the result of _much_ more detail being presented in a _much_ more_ balanced_ and _accurate _way...and across the entire frequency range. I now regard these aspects of sound reproduction to be a far better yardstick to go by than pretty well any other terms used...IMHO, of course! 

In relation to the enhanced bass and mids particularly, these aforementioned qualities did in fact have me wondering/fearing if my Empyreans were being driven to distortion by Hans Zimmer's almost manic use of the orchestra's lowest register horns, brass and timpani lol...such was the impact! And only on very close scrutiny - plus checking via speakers - was it evidently down to low frequencies that I'd simply never heard before from my system/headphones.

ps. This particular experience also taught me to be _very_ sparing in future with the terms 'air'; 'sparkle' etc in relation to treble performance especially. I'm now convinced these sorts of terms are simply a perceived reflection on a previously implied _lack _of balance and accuracy in overall delivery.

pps. Sorry for this long tome...blame it on Euforia + 3x 7581As and 1x EL39 lol!!! ...(not to mention Meze Empyreans!)...CJ

ppps. Obviously, such terms as instrument/voice 'separation/placement' within a spatial/3 dimensional context are wholly valid, needless to say......


----------



## Dobrescu George

hypnos1 said:


> Hi DG. Congrats on having the Euforia to play with...and hopefully _enjoy_ lol!  Is it just for review, or is it yours to keep?!  And if new, I do hope you give her a good long burn in (and I do hope you're not one who questions the benefits - nay _need_ for more than just a few hours of 'running in' for all components, especially tubes, before performance is anywhere near its best...)...CHEERS!...CJ



This one is mine  

I also have the Gold Tubes, so lots of fun times! 

In the meanwhile I also managed to do a short unboxing video, soon to post on my Youtube!


----------



## connieflyer

Hello H, Got the second pair of adapters late this afternoon.  Had them in for about an hour, moved the first pair from powers to drivers and the new pair to powers.  26 hours on the first pair and one hour one the second pair.  So one thing I noticed, going to a quad from the pair, with  a pair of Foton 6 sn7 the power out is less.  Had to turn the amp up a bit more to get the same apparent volumn.   Could be the Foton's or just that the new pair just needs lots more burn in.  Had to give it a listen, so far so good.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Hello H, Got the second pair of adapters late this afternoon.  Had them in for about an hour, moved the first pair from powers to drivers and the new pair to powers.  26 hours on the first pair and one hour one the second pair.  So one thing I noticed, going to a quad from the pair, with  a pair of Foton 6 sn7 the power out is less.  Had to turn the amp up a bit more to get the same apparent volumn.   Could be the Foton's or just that the new pair just needs lots more burn in.  Had to give it a listen, so far so good.


That 7581A quad looks very handsome in situ, Don. Congrats. I have ordered a pair, and 6L6 --> 7AS7 adapters from Deyan, and plan to use them in power / output position on Elise. When you had yours in back sockets alone what drivers paired well? I am currently running new production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's with the TS 5998's, quite nice but a bit warm, some slurring in lower mids / upper bass and treble could use a tad more sparkle. I'm hoping the 7581A's will provide better overall linearity and clarity and will try them with the new production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's as well as the stock Psvane 6SN7 "UK" drivers that came with Elise (although I found those a bit grainy and overall inferior to the new production Tung Sol drivers.)

Any other suggestions for drivers that pair well with the 7581A as powers?

Best!


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## connieflyer (Oct 25, 2019)

Hello LoryWiv,  I was running a pair of Foton 6sn7's for drivers.  I had them in just to start the burn in while waiting on the other pair of adapters.  Had about 20 hours on the 7581A's and they had already started to improve. I was using the pre-outs to listen to them while they continued to burn in.  That combo sounded very good, and I am sure that the Tung Sol6sn7's will too.  I have a pair and liked them.  The Russian Foton's where from their premier plant and they have sounded good with what ever I tried with them.  I am going to continue burning in this quad until I get at least 100+hours on them before I start to try different conbinations. Will be trying the EL 39 with three 7581A's as my first roll. I did like using a singe el39 tube as a power. We shall see, good luck


----------



## LoryWiv

Thanks, @connieflyer. I look forward to heating about your experience and impressions with the 7581A in various combinations!


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Here you go UT.


Do the El12 spez require an adapter with wired connection running up to the anode cap or just an adapter for base into socket and a stand alone anode cap cover?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello H, Got the second pair of adapters late this afternoon.  Had them in for about an hour, moved the first pair from powers to drivers and the new pair to powers.  26 hours on the first pair and one hour one the second pair.  So one thing I noticed, going to a quad from the pair, with  a pair of Foton 6 sn7 the power out is less.  Had to turn the amp up a bit more to get the same apparent volumn.   Could be the Foton's or just that the new pair just needs lots more burn in.  Had to give it a listen, so far so good.



Glad to hear you now have 4x 7581As to play with cf...and yes, their output is lower than most other combos so will need higher vol setting. But luckily, I've found that even when going to a (setting) level never approached before, I haven't had the slightest hint of distortion...just more of the clearest delivery I've ever heard lol ...(well, once those as drivers have at least 50 hrs on them, that is!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 25, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Do the El12 spez require an adapter with wired connection running up to the anode cap or just an adapter for base into socket and a stand alone anode cap cover?



Hi LW. Yep, the required adapter has the anode wire running to the tube's cap...

ps. With those spez's of cf I ran the wire up the back of the tube, so not as noticeable as most 3rd party offerings lol


----------



## hypnos1

Dobrescu George said:


> This one is mine
> 
> I also have the Gold Tubes, so lots of fun times!
> 
> In the meanwhile I also managed to do a short unboxing video, soon to post on my Youtube!



Yo DG...those PsVane CV181TIIs are not a bad tube at all. Hope you have a good selection of other drivers also, and especially powers lol ...

Looking forward to your Youtube video...CJ


----------



## barontan2418 (Oct 25, 2019)

I've had to change my method concerning running in 7581's from 4 in my Euforia to two in each, Euforia and Elise both in the driver position. I just wasn't feeling the vib after 30ish hours burn in 4x 7581 or 3x7581 and EL39 in Euforia. Euforia is now running with 2x 7581 as drivers and 2xEL39 powers and sounding very good. I realise nowhere near 150hrs burn-
in but as I tend to run tubes in whilst listening to music and need to be enjoying what I'm listening to. Hope to eventually end up with 3x7581 and EL39 in Euforia, well run in and at least somewhere near H1 results. 
Should say H1 that these are Tung Sol 7581's. If I'd kept the first 4 USSR made tubes I would not have been able to compare results with everybody else.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> I've had to change my method concerning running in 7581's from 4 in my Euforia to two in each, Euforia and Elise both in the driver position. I just wasn't feeling the vib after 30ish hours burn in 4x 7581 or 3x7581 and EL39 in Euforia. Euforia is now running with 2x 7581 as drivers and 2xEL39 powers and sounding very good. I realise nowhere near 150hrs burn-
> in but as I tend to run tubes in whilst listening to music and need to be enjoying what I'm listening to. Hope to eventually end up with 3x7581 and EL39 in Euforia, well run in and at least somewhere near H1 results.
> Should say H1 that these are Tung Sol 7581's. If I'd kept the first 4 USSR made tubes I would not have been able to compare results with everybody else.



Hi bt...and yes indeed, early days as yet. If I personally hadn't persevered with 7581As driving the same (and the EL39 for that matter!), I would never have known their eventual true potential lol. I can only hope that time will do the same for yourself - and anyone else for that matter . In fact, for the first time ever, I postponed going back to listen to them as drivers, I was that disappointed. But now, I could never go back to even my beloved mesh-plate EL11s......

However, as per usual - different systems/ears/preferences etc., not to mention adjustment to different sound presentation. I myself have been a _very_ long time moving away from what many aficionados would regard as a topmost presentation - the clarity and more treble-biased combo of the C3g driving the hallowed GEC/Osram family of 6AS7G power for example. But I now crave a more 'full-bodied' sound, with more emphasis on bass, and mids especially...hence my preference for Euforia over Elise. And fortunately, the current combo in my own setup provides this in spades, without losing either treble presence or clarity. I hope wholeheartedly that other systems can approach this sound, assuming that is in fact one's cup of tea lol! ...there's more than one road to Nirvana......

So, good luck with the burn-in mon ami...CJ

ps. I'm sure 2x EL39s as powers will still be hard to beat lol!...


----------



## connieflyer

Hi H, have about 38 hours on mine now, and they are starting to sound very good.  Opening up more, hardly any distortion also. This is with the quad still, going to wait until 100+ before rolling in EL39 unless this sounds even better before then.  Tried them with Sen 800 today, and they are indeed much improved. Thanks again CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi H, have about 38 hours on mine now, and they are starting to sound very good.  Opening up more, hardly any distortion also. This is with the quad still, going to wait until 100+ before rolling in EL39 unless this sounds even better before then.  Tried them with Sen 800 today, and they are indeed much improved. Thanks again CJ



Good to hear cf...but you've still a _looong_ way to go lol!  It was only about now that I didn't give up on them as drivers (to the same as power)...so hope your patience holds out!! ...
Obviously down to the fact that our amps keep these babies just on 'simmer'...no doubt they'd sound even better when pushed harder, as they will be in @ZRW0 's amp. But then, so would the amp be running much _hotter_...and I for one am loving how cool all these triode-strapped pentodes keep my amp - a very worthwhile bonus IMHO.

And may I once again give thanks to Erwan for suggesting I try the 7581A...despite my rather dubious initial thoughts lol! However, I'm now scouring old tube (valve) collections on ebay (UK) for any hidden, unrecognised GEC/Osram/Marconi KT66s...would love to compare them with the TS Russian reissues. But am certainly not going to pay the usual asking prices!! ...CHEERS!...


----------



## connieflyer

I was just looking at these, only 600 dollars for a used pair! No way am I going down that route with this amp, it just isn't up to it


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I was just looking at these, only 600 dollars for a used pair! No way am I going down that route with this amp, it just isn't up to it



Perhaps I should convince a maker here to design an hp amp specifically around this 7581A/6L6GC/KT66 family...then you can cite me as cause for your bankruptcy, dear friend!!! ...

And it's g'night from me......HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## teknorob23

After exhaustive/ exhausting testing my euforia is going to meet his maker for a bit of TLC. I dropped it off at audiobarn on Wednesday. I received some dangerous info while there, that their anniversary demo will be arriving next week and should be nicely run in by the time mine is back from Poland. I also made the (pre-meditated mistake) of hooking up my VC’s to the Hugo tt2 while I was there, all i can say is damn! And I’m going have to try very hard when collecting the euforia not to listen to all three and or to leave my credit card at home


----------



## connieflyer

Don't you dare run off after a statement like that!  You find the manufacturer I will buy one!  Want something new,  something with some style, performance and tubes that glow blue!!!


----------



## connieflyer

What are they asking for the anniverary amp over there? Here in the states they want $3500 plus shipping from the west coast.  Not even close to what the difference in cost would be between that and Euforia. And with the upgraded tubes that we use, I doubt it would sound any better if as good. My opinion of course


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Don't you dare run off after a statement like that!  You find the manufacturer I will buy one!  Want something new,  something with some style, performance and tubes that glow blue!!!



OK, OK cf...what with yourself and @teknorob23 , my supper drink is getting cold lol!! (I sure am tempted by the thought of playing Godfather to such a baby...but think I need a rest for a good while...???!!! 

And tr...sorry to hear your own baby has got to go back to Poland...and that your wallet just might be in for a real fright sometime soon!! And am looking forward to your impressions of the Anniversary amp...but don't wish to know just how good the TT2 is, thank you!!...(well, perhaps a bit later lol! )....CHEERS GUYS!...


----------



## mordy

How about this?


----------



## connieflyer

nice!


----------



## Scutey

Well I now have 80 hours on my 7581A tubes and I have to say I'm becoming more impressed with these tubes with every day of burn in that passes. To my ears they seemed to turn a corner around the 45 hour mark, until then they were rather raw sounding, some distortion and graininess, that seems to have all gone to be replaced with grain/distortion free clarity, superb depth, 3D imaging, effortless highs and the tightest bass I've yet to hear and slam to die for, also I've tried them with several different tubes, but what has surprised me is just how good these sound with the venerable 6SN7 type, my Psvane CV 181 TII, National Union JAN CRC, RCA VT231 and the humble Foton 6H8C ribber anode all sound utterly superb, and they also sound wonderful on the Elise as well . 

ps next up I'll try them as drivers with the EL39, happy (audio) days!


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> How about this?



Ohh that's gorgeous!


----------



## connieflyer

Would love to hear what 7581A's sound like fully powered up in an amp made for them.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW. Yep, the required adapter has the anode wire running to the tube's cap...
> 
> ps. With those spez's of cf I ran the wire up the back of the tube, so not as noticeable as most 3rd party offerings lol


@Hypnos your attention to both form and function is admirable...my kind of guy.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> How about this?



Oh my...what are those blue beauties and in what amp?


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> Well I now have 80 hours on my 7581A tubes and I have to say I'm becoming more impressed with these tubes with every day of burn in that passes. To my ears they seemed to turn a corner around the 45 hour mark, until then they were rather raw sounding, some distortion and graininess, that seems to have all gone to be replaced with grain/distortion free clarity, superb depth, 3D imaging, effortless highs and the tightest bass I've yet to hear and slam to die for, also I've tried them with several different tubes, but what has surprised me is just how good these sound with the venerable 6SN7 type, my Psvane CV 181 TII, National Union JAN CRC, RCA VT231 and the humble Foton 6H8C ribber anode all sound utterly superb, and they also *sound wonderful on the Elise as well* .
> 
> ps next up I'll try them as drivers with the EL39, happy (audio) days!




@Scutey that's so good to hear as I have a pair of 7581A's on order for my Elise, planning to use as powers for my Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Which of the 6SN7's you've tried has the best synergy so far?


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> @Scutey that's so good to hear as I have a pair of 7581A's on order for my Elise, planning to use as powers for my Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Which of the 6SN7's you've tried has the best synergy so far?


Well first of all the sound with the 7581A in Elise is a bit leaner, not as weighty as the Euforia, but also perhaps a little more nimble, anyway I found the synergy with all those I mentioned to be very good indeed, I would say my favourite were the Psvane and National Union, then Foton 6H8C and then RCA VT-231, I have to say the biggest surprise was the Foton. One thing I have to add, as h1 has said they do need quite a long burn in, and they may/will sound a little harsh/grainly/clinical in Elise but they do become sweeter past the 40 hour mark, hope you enjoy them! .


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> Well first of all the sound with the 7581A in Elise is a bit leaner, not as weighty as the Euforia, but also perhaps a little more nimble, anyway I found the synergy with all those I mentioned to be very good indeed, I would say my favourite were the Psvane and National Union, then Foton 6H8C and then RCA VT-231, I have to say the biggest surprise was the Foton. One thing I have to add, as h1 has said they do need quite a long burn in, and they may/will sound a little harsh/grainly/clinical in Elise but they do become sweeter past the 40 hour mark, hope you enjoy them! .


Thank you @Scutey. How is the 7581A's stage? I am currently using 5998 powers which are good in many areas but i find stage a little constricted.


----------



## Dobrescu George

While everyone is having fun with their Euforia MK 2, I am here doing some bloopers becuase taking photos of this one has been a lot of fun. Also, the photos were taken with the help of Haru, the new member of Audiophile-Heaven  

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4BeNu_JD_Y


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you @Scutey. How is the 7581A's stage? I am currently using 5998 powers which are good in many areas but i find stage a little constricted.


No problem!. Regarding the soundstage, I would describe it as open, wide, airy, with lots of space and depth.


----------



## Johnnysound

Scutey said:


> Well I now have 80 hours on my 7581A tubes and I have to say I'm becoming more impressed with these tubes with every day of burn in that passes. To my ears they seemed to turn a corner around the 45 hour mark, until then they were rather raw sounding, some distortion and graininess, that seems to have all gone to be replaced with grain/distortion free clarity, superb depth, 3D imaging, effortless highs and the tightest bass I've yet to hear and slam to die for, also I've tried them with several different tubes, but what has surprised me is just how good these sound with the venerable 6SN7 type, my Psvane CV 181 TII, National Union JAN CRC, RCA VT231 and the humble Foton 6H8C ribber anode all sound utterly superb, and they also sound wonderful on the Elise as well .
> 
> ps next up I'll try them as drivers with the EL39, happy (audio) days!



Interesting that you liked so much the 7581As as powers...H1 looks like preferring them as drivers for the EL39s. Anyway, if it works so well, what about a quad ?  Any experiences ??


----------



## connieflyer (Oct 26, 2019)

I am burning in a quad now, at the 46 hour mark, and they are improving now.  A little grainy like others have said, but the sound stage is good. Cj recommends a pair as drivers and one for power and an El 39.  I have not tried them with other tubes while burning, accept initially, when my second pair of adapters had not arrived.  Used the Foton 6H8C as driver and found it quite good.  Won't be rolling tubes with these until after 100+ hours to make sure they are burned in sufficiently to discover the best in the pairing. Listening to Celine Dion now and compared to twenty hours on the same track distortion is almost negligible. A welcome sound to be sure. Let's me know I am on the right track, just have to wait it out.


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 26, 2019)

80 hrs @Scutey ?...you're getting there lol!  And for fear of repeating myself (ad nauseum!), they will indeed just keep on getting better and better. In fact, I've _never_ come across a tube that improved to such a degree, over such a long time as this 7581A. And you'll be glad to know @LoryWiv , stage width - along with all other aspects of soundstage - also develops far more than I ever suspected. And as already surmised, this can only be down to such a massive plate/anode only being pushed at less than half normal voltage. Plus, I read one user advising 150 hrs burn-in...and that at _full_ voltage! 

And so guys, congrats on sticking with these tubes, and once again appearing to assuage my fears of impending self-delusion lol!!  I'm sure that patience will indeed be repaid handsomely for most of you at least......

Well @connieflyer , I'm certainly looking forward to your own findings re. 2x 7581As driving 1 as power to an EL39 partner, compared to 4x 7581As. And as when using that 'special' Mazda EL38 as partner (@Johnnysound ), for me there's a bit extra 'Fairy Dust' sprinkled into the mix.

ps. LW, mordy's lovely pic shows ElecroHarmonix KT88s as powers. Unfortunately, as with the 7581A, our amps wouldn't be pushing this tube anywhere near hard enough to enjoy such a gloriously bright blue light show......CJ

pps. I can only assume any distortion/graininess is due to the 3rd party adapters I'm afraid...my own suffered none such whatsoever lol! But I'm real glad that further burn-in seems to be taming things nicely..._completely_ soon, I hope!!


----------



## Scutey

Yes they certainly sound as if they are getting there h1, my perseverance is paying off, every burn in session (at least 5 hours), they seem to have improved, am really enjoying burning these in as they most certainly reward you for it! .


----------



## Scutey

Johnnysound said:


> Interesting that you liked so much the 7581As as powers...H1 looks like preferring them as drivers for the EL39s. Anyway, if it works so well, what about a quad ?  Any experiences ??


No, only have a pair at the moment, another pair is on it's way, so I can then try a quad. Tried them in the driver position today for 8 hours burn in with EL39, this combo sounds very good too, warmth, weight and great tone, I'm now up to 88 hours burn in.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yes they certainly sound as if they are getting there h1, my perseverance is paying off, every burn in session (at least 5 hours), they seem to have improved, am really enjoying burning these in as they most certainly reward you for it! .





Scutey said:


> No, only have a pair at the moment, another pair is on it's way, so I can then try a quad. Tried them in the driver position today for 8 hours burn in with EL39, this combo sounds very good too, warmth, weight and great tone, I'm now up to 88 hours burn in.



Hi S...Must admit that I too am _still_ enjoying burning these babies in...even after well over 200 hrs all round lol!!...(once through the rather disappointing early days of using them as drivers! ). Every piece of my stalwart (and well trodden!) test pieces shows up something new in the presentation...to a degree that surprises me more each day. These tubes are not only displaying their own supreme qualities, but keep pushing Euforia and my Empyreans to levels I really didn't think them capable of. 192kHz/24bit downloads of Classical albums from HDTracks are showing up frequencies I've never heard before. And with the extended bass and mids now, I was fully expecting the hi-res album of Raymond Daveluy's Organ Recital to finally be driving my Empys to distortion - especially the bass pedal in Bach's Toccata and Fugue...but no, just the most amazing sound I've heard from an organ recording, including the sort of reverb usually associated with a massive church, not headphones lol!  Count me even more amazed than ever...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Oct 27, 2019)

Well finally hit 65 hours and the driver pair and 40 hours on the power pair and I must say things have improved. this is the first time I've been able to wear the Sennheiser 800 headphone without any distortion.  a very welcome sound indeed.,or should I say lack of sound! These are turning out to be some really good tubes.


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Well first of all the sound with the 7581A in Elise is a bit leaner, not as weighty as the Euforia, but also perhaps a little more nimble, anyway I found the synergy with all those I mentioned to be very good indeed, I would say my favourite were the Psvane and National Union, then Foton 6H8C and then RCA VT-231, I have to say the biggest surprise was the Foton. One thing I have to add, as h1 has said they do need quite a long burn in, and they may/will sound a little harsh/grainly/clinical in Elise but they do become sweeter past the 40 hour mark, hope you enjoy them! .


It is important to point out that the Foton refer to 1952-55 production with ladder style plates (ribbed plates).


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 27, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Well finally hit 65 hours and the driver pair and 40 hours on the power pair and I must say things have improved. this is the first time I've been able to wear the Sennheiser 800 headphone without any distortion.  a very welcome sound indeed.,or should I say lack of sound! These are turning out to be some really good tubes.



Hi cf...good news, but trust me, all I can say is..._the best is yet to come!!_  What I'm now hearing from my own system is so far ahead of stock configuration tubes that it's beyond a joke even lol .

But what still perplexes me somewhat is the distortion some of you mention. Even when turning up my volume to unlistenable levels, I had none at all..._weird!_ I can only hope it does indeed disappear completely for folks so afflicted.......CJ


----------



## Scutey (Oct 27, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...Must admit that I too am _still_ enjoying burning these babies in...even after well over 200 hrs all round lol!!...(once through the rather disappointing early days of using them as drivers! ). Every piece of my stalwart (and well trodden!) test pieces shows up something new in the presentation...to a degree that surprises me more each day. These tubes are not only displaying their own supreme qualities, but keep pushing Euforia and my Empyreans to levels I really didn't think them capable of. 192kHz/24bit downloads of Classical albums from HDTracks are showing up frequencies I've never heard before. And with the extended bass and mids now, I was fully expecting the hi-res album of Raymond Daveluy's Organ Recital to finally be driving my Empys to distortion - especially the bass pedal in Bach's Toccata and Fugue...but no, just the most amazing sound I've heard from an organ recording, including the sort of reverb usually associated with a massive church, not headphones lol!  Count me even more amazed than ever...CHEERS!...CJ


Well I have been doing the same thing as well lol, my tried and tested test tracks, everything from from rock/metal to jazz, classical and some electronica, they very good with everything, I didn't think bass could get any better than the EL38 (balloon)/EL11 but these surpass them, but in all aspects of audio, I can agree with you to re Bach's Toccata ad Fugue, (mines the Peter Hurford version), it's more of those hoped for wow moments, but what is impressing me is when used as powers with even humble drivers the sound is still gorgeous, and most impressive of all a new production tube! .


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Well I have been doing the same thing as well lol, my tried and tested test tracks, everything from from rock/metal to jazz, classical and some electronica, they very good with everything, I didn't think bass could get any better than the EL38 (balloon)/EL11 but these surpass them, but in all aspects of audio, I can agree with you to re Bach's Toccata ad Fugue, (mines the Peter Hurford version), it's more of those hoped for wow moments, but what is impressing me is when used as powers with even humble drivers the sound is still gorgeous, and most impressive of all a new production tube! .



Yo, Scutey...that a 'new' and not 'NOS' tube should sound this good is eye-opening to say the least lol. Be prepared for a lot more of those WOW moments as you get even more hours on your tubes. And to be so readily available at such a reasonable price is truly remarkable. 

Even with all the hours I have on mine, my own experience continues to bring new surprises. Today was one of the most unexpected to date - I'm getting used to all aspects of _music_ delivery entering new territory, but wasn't ready for what my latest combo can do for the _spoken_ voice...viz. Richard Burton's narration in Jeff Wayne's musical version of 'War of the Worlds'. In addition to an enhanced tonal range in his already rich voice, somehow there's now a noticeably heightened, and more _varied_ emotion in his delivery...one I'd never appreciated to this degree before. No other tubes have ever come close to bringing so much more to the table...can't wait to hear what they do for my favourite pieces yet to be graced by their presence lol! 

ps @teknorob23 ...it's a crying shame you won't be able to compare a Euforia with 200 hrs on these tubes alongside an Anniversary Edition with stock...I'd bet good money on just which would come out tops lol!!  And would sure love to hear it next to a Hugo TT2 also......ah well, such is life......(Hope you don't have too long a wait for your own amp to return, so that you can get some more hours on your 7581As (or 3 + 1 combo!).


----------



## connieflyer

Before I turned on the lights this morning, I fired up the amp, and waited until it was warmed up, and sure enough you could see the faint blue glow!  Now I want full blue glow.  Come on CJ, you surely can figure out a way for us to have the full blue glow without having to purchase a new amplifier!  It would sure make a nice conversation piece, glowing in the dark, and the ladies oowwing and aaahhhing over the light show! As more hours go on these tubes, I am liking them more and more, and there is always the posibility that they could be my favorite tubes,  will have to wait to pass judgement there.  Want to give them a good burn, and then give the quad a good chance before moving on to adding one EL 39. A couple of other possibilities I want to experiment with also.  Would also like to try a couple of KT 66 as drivers, but that will have to wait. 77 hours and counting,


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Before I turned on the lights this morning, I fired up the amp, and waited until it was warmed up, and sure enough you could see the faint blue glow!  Now I want full blue glow.  Come on CJ, you surely can figure out a way for us to have the full blue glow without having to purchase a new amplifier!  It would sure make a nice conversation piece, glowing in the dark, and the ladies oowwing and aaahhhing over the light show! As more hours go on these tubes, I am liking them more and more, and there is always the posibility that they could be my favorite tubes,  will have to wait to pass judgement there.  Want to give them a good burn, and then give the quad a good chance before moving on to adding one EL 39. A couple of other possibilities I want to experiment with also.  Would also like to try a couple of KT 66 as drivers, but that will have to wait. 77 hours and counting,



More blue glow, cf? I'm afraid the only way we're gonna be able to get that is with some blue LEDs lol!!  ...so bang goes the chance to woo those invited (lady) guests alas.... Looks like I'll have to try and persuade a top notch maker over here to do the honours after all.... But in total darkness, our 7581As do still give off quite a nice glow, if somewhat eerie lol!! 

And 77 hrs?...hardly even half way! So hope your patience holds out mon ami...(I guarantee it'll be worth it lol!)....CJ

ps. KT66s?...either you've won the lottery or you've struck lucky big time somewhere D!...


----------



## connieflyer

CJ, no way I would spend $500 for a used kt66! I was referring to the new stock they're about $45, and they should do fine. No rush to get into that, I have a lot of drivers that I would like to try first. I just had to check and see if there was any blue showing at all this morning, and in the dark I can see it it's just not like what you would notice with a full-powered tube! But blue haze, it's there! Now if there's only some way to burn these stupid tubes in quickly, that would be great. If they could come up with a piece of equipment with 20 sockets, and a way to energize the tubes to where it would only take even a half a day that would be a service that you could sell. Oh well halfway there, just hope I can stick it out for the Long Haul, actually I don't really have a choice do I?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ, no way I would spend $500 for a used kt66! I was referring to the new stock they're about $45, and they should do fine. No rush to get into that, I have a lot of drivers that I would like to try first. I just had to check and see if there was any blue showing at all this morning, and in the dark I can see it it's just not like what you would notice with a full-powered tube! But blue haze, it's there! Now if there's only some way to burn these stupid tubes in quickly, that would be great. If they could come up with a piece of equipment with 20 sockets, and a way to energize the tubes to where it would only take even a half a day that would be a service that you could sell. Oh well halfway there, just hope I can stick it out for the Long Haul, actually I don't really have a choice do I?



Er...no choice at all I’m afraid ol’ buddy!! 

Ah...so no kosher KT66s for you cf?...and there was I thinking you smoked $100 notes lol! Actually, the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66 looks a promising contender to me......BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

That was the same information that I was gaining about the genalex Gold Lion kt66. Supposedly it's better than the others. I used to smoke hundred dollar bills, but when I quit smoking 35 years ago I started putting that money and a little savings account that's why I am able to afford a brand new $35 tube!


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> 80 hrs @Scutey ?...you're getting there lol!  And for fear of repeating myself (ad nauseum!), they will indeed just keep on getting better and better. In fact, I've _never_ come across a tube that improved to such a degree, over such a long time as this 7581A. And you'll be glad to know @LoryWiv , stage width - along with all other aspects of soundstage - also develops far more than I ever suspected. And as already surmised, this can only be down to such a massive plate/anode only being pushed at less than half normal voltage. Plus, I read one user advising 150 hrs burn-in...and that at _full_ voltage!
> 
> And so guys, congrats on sticking with these tubes, and once again appearing to assuage my fears of impending self-delusion lol!!  I'm sure that patience will indeed be repaid handsomely for most of you at least......
> 
> ...



I believe that the beautiful blue glow comes from running the tubes at a higher plate voltage than in the FA amps. The benefit of lover plate voltage is longer tube life - not that we really need it; with all the tube rolling I have yet to wear out a tube!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> That was the same information that I was gaining about the genalex Gold Lion kt66. Supposedly it's better than the others. I used to smoke hundred dollar bills, but when I quit smoking 35 years ago I started putting that money and a little savings account that's why I am able to afford a brand new $35 tube!



Might just give those reissue Genalex a look myself cf...no £/$xhundreds tubes for me either I'm afraid lol . And actually, dear friend, I should have thought that 35 years' worth of cigs would have gotten you countless McKintosh amps by now, let alone the odd NOS KT66 or ten!!! Then just think of the gorgeous blue glows you could have been tempting those young fillies with!!  ...(aaah, perchance to dream...).



mordy said:


> I believe that the beautiful blue glow comes from running the tubes at a higher plate voltage than in the FA amps. The benefit of lover plate voltage is longer tube life - not that we really need it; with all the tube rolling I have yet to wear out a tube!



Yes indeed m, that blue glow only comes from running such tubes at a plate voltage easily _double_ that in our amps...unfortunately lol! And for me personally, much more important than longer tube life is longer _amp_ life. Plus the lack of any need whatsoever for additional amp cooling such as fans, which are yet another electrical item to add in the vicinity....and certainly a case of 'less is more' . (Even with a fan drawing away heat from the amp, resistors and caps will still be getting FAR hotter than Euforia or Elise sporting the triode-strapped EL pentodes or 6L6/7581/KT66 family).


----------



## connieflyer

Well CJ, I had to take a break from burning these tubes in, knowing that I was only halfway I just had to listen to some music. Yes it was a little loud and know the neighbors weren't home to complain! I kept the longest burning tubes in 80 plus hours in the driver slot and put in b e l 39 and e l 38 Special, and even with only 80 hours on those drivers this thing sounded really good! When the tubes cool down I will put the other pair back in and continue to burn, now that I've had my music fix!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Yo, Scutey...that a 'new' and not 'NOS' tube should sound this good is eye-opening to say the least lol. Be prepared for a lot more of those WOW moments as you get even more hours on your tubes. And to be so readily available at such a reasonable price is truly remarkable.
> 
> Even with all the hours I have on mine, my own experience continues to bring new surprises. Today was one of the most unexpected to date - I'm getting used to all aspects of _music_ delivery entering new territory, but wasn't ready for what my latest combo can do for the _spoken_ voice...viz. Richard Burton's narration in Jeff Wayne's musical version of 'War of the Worlds'. In addition to an enhanced tonal range in his already rich voice, somehow there's now a noticeably heightened, and more _varied_ emotion in his delivery...one I'd never appreciated to this degree before. No other tubes have ever come close to bringing so much more to the table...can't wait to hear what they do for my favourite pieces yet to be graced by their presence lol!
> 
> ps @teknorob23 ...it's a crying shame you won't be able to compare a Euforia with 200 hrs on these tubes alongside an Anniversary Edition with stock...I'd bet good money on just which would come out tops lol!!  And would sure love to hear it next to a Hugo TT2 also......ah well, such is life......(Hope you don't have too long a wait for your own amp to return, so that you can get some more hours on your 7581As (or 3 + 1 combo!).


I'm well prepared for more wow moments h1,I say bring em on!, another pair arrived today, all I need now is the adapters and I can, hopefully get the full quad surround sound experience! .


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well CJ, I had to take a break from burning these tubes in, knowing that I was only halfway I just had to listen to some music. Yes it was a little loud and know the neighbors weren't home to complain! I kept the longest burning tubes in 80 plus hours in the driver slot and put in b e l 39 and e l 38 Special, and even with only 80 hours on those drivers this thing sounded really good! When the tubes cool down I will put the other pair back in and continue to burn, now that I've had my music fix!



Yep cf...this dedication to full burn-in duty sure can be a bit of a pain sometimes...music _enjoyment_ has to be put on hold alas...unless one sneaks in a little light relief, just like you lol...WELL DONE! But now it is indeed back to work, shipmate!!  For _you_, that is...I'm off to my bed...

ps. I too had no choice...but this time it's to do with those Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66s. How could I resist a pair of these lovely-looking tubes, given my results so far with the TS 7581As lol?! So they should be here in the next 2 to 3 days...



Scutey said:


> I'm well prepared for more wow moments h1,I say bring em on!, another pair arrived today, all I need now is the adapters and I can, hopefully get the full quad surround sound experience! .



And it'll be back to work for you too, S...but at least you have the excuse of waiting for that slow boat from China! However, the first pair still need a good bit of cooking yet lol .

BFN guys...and keep up the good work...zzzzzzzzz...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 28, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> I too had no choice...but this time it's to do with those Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66s. How could I resist a pair of these lovely-looking tubes, given my results so far with the TS 7581As lol?! So they should be here in the next 2 to 3 days...


You are certainly blazing trails for the rest of us to consider following....thank you @hypnos1. BTW, what is the heater current of the new production  Genalex KT66's? The references I saw were for NOS and had differing values. If it is higher than the 7581A's would that perhaps suggest the KT66's as powers of the Tung Sols as drivers? What is your thought as to how to best use these beauties?


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 29, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yep cf...this dedication to full burn-in duty sure can be a bit of a pain sometimes...music _enjoyment_ has to be put on hold alas...unless one sneaks in a little light relief, just like you lol...WELL DONE! But now it is indeed back to work, shipmate!!  For _you_, that is...I'm off to my bed...
> 
> ps. I too had no choice...but this time it's to do with those Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66s. How could I resist a pair of these lovely-looking tubes, given my results so far with the TS 7581As lol?! So they should be here in the next 2 to 3 days...
> 
> ...



Ah ha CJ, I see you’re interested in KT66. Well my next amp from Glenn after Berlin is Sydney.

Sydney will have:-

Marconi KT66 smoke glass x 4
Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass x 4
GEC KT66 clear glass x 2
Brimar 6L6GA black glass x 2
Brimar 6L6G black glass x 2
Philips Miniwatt EL34 DD getters xf4 x 4
Philips Miniwatt EL34 OO getters xf2 x 4
GEC KT77 x 4
GEC KT88 x 4

Drivers will be GEC L63, Mullard 6J5GT, Sylvania 6C5GT

I’ve posted photos of all these tubes in Glenn’s Studio thread.

Good luck with your Genalex KT66.


----------



## connieflyer

UT, if you fire that new amp up with all those tubes, you better warn Sydney that there may be a blackout coming this way! You'll suck up all the electricity from miles around! I envy you my friend that sounds delicious. Good luck


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, if you fire that new amp up with all those tubes, you better warn Sydney that there may be a blackout coming this way! You'll suck up all the electricity from miles around! I envy you my friend that sounds delicious. Good luck



Don't worry Don. I've ordered one of these. It will be park outside my driveway. 


 

To power all those tubes, I'll have one of these in my backyard.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, if you fire that new amp up with all those tubes, you better warn Sydney that there may be a blackout coming this way! You'll suck up all the electricity from miles around! I envy you my friend that sounds delicious. Good luck



How can I warn Sydney? The amp will called Sydney !!! 

No kidding. The EL11 and EL12 spez will be called Berlin and this other one will be Sydney.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> You are certainly blazing trails for the rest of us to consider following....thank you @hypnos1. BTW, what is the heater current of the new production  Genalex KT66's? The references I saw were for NOS and had differing values. If it is higher than the 7581A's would that perhaps suggest the KT66's as powers of the Tung Sols as drivers? What is your thought as to how to best use these beauties?



Well LW...all I can say is that I hope to goodness my trails don't lead anyone into the jaws of Hell lol!! 

And as for the Genalex KT66s, heater draw is indeed higher - looks like 1.27A as opposed to .9A for the 7581A. But as for better as power or driver, only Euforia's (or Elise's) circuit design/parameters will show if there's any difference from the 7581A. So I'll be testing in both positions to see just what's what lol! ...(with fingers crossed, needless to say!). As usual, I'll keep y'all informed ASAP...



UntilThen said:


> Ah ha CJ, I see you’re interested in KT66. Well my next amp from Glenn after Berlin is Sydney.
> 
> Sydney will have:-
> 
> ...



Yikes M...always suspected you were a multi-millionaire lol! . Are all those tubes already in house, or _prospective_ ones with provisos? If the former, does your better half know how much you've been spending since you left F-A's shores???!!! ...Whatever, the best of luck with all your upcoming projects.

And yes, have always loved the look - and opinions - of the British KT66 etc family, but never ever dreamt we could use them at all in our amps. But once again F-A's designs have confounded me (and others, no doubt) way beyond expectation in the ability to make such 'alternative' tubes not only _play_ but _*shine*_. 

And given the superlative performance of the 7581A in my own system (courtesy of ZRW0's suggestion), I have yet another reason to try the Genalex KT66...ie. encouraged by your kind words @LoryWiv  - re. "form and function" - I intend to try doubling it up with a 7581A!! Especially as a guitarist's comparo of said Genalex (reissue) vs GEC NOS KT66s on Youtube showed the former to be not only very close indeed to the MUCH more expensive GECs, but IMO to have a bit more 'bite'...which could very well complement very nicely the 7581A's 'smoother', more bass/mids-enhanced character (in my own system at least!).

Now, you know only too well UT my previous unhappiness (to say the least!) with 3rd party multi-adapters, but I'm hoping that once again, attaching my Neotech UP-OCC solid silver and copper conversion wires directly to the tubes' pin wires and dispensing with any need for a _socket_ will minimise any signal impairment. And in deference to 'form and function', hope to come up with a design that also _looks_ better than anything out there..._wish me luck lol!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

I wish you the best of luck with the KT66. It's a beautiful tube with a beautiful sound. My private supplier of the said tubes posted above has this to say about the different type of KT66 tubes.

Marconi KT66 smoke glass - warm sound with an organic tone with a rich texture. Killer vocals !!!

Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass - less warm, more airy and slightly brighter and clearer. Take your pick !!!

GEC KT66 clear glass - basically the same as the Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass.

The photos starts with this link. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2244#post-15271455

My wife doesn't interfere with my hobby. As a professional poker player, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't gamble, I don't womanise, I don't eat lobster or carver, I have no other vice. Spending on this hobby is the best thing UT can do besides playing tennis, badminton, cycling, 4 wheel driving and having holidays with the wife.  Ah one other vice coming up... I want to buy a motorbike. 

Sydney will have the right sockets for these tubes. I don't believe in adapters. 

This bike !


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass - less warm, more airy and slightly brighter and clearer. Take your pick !!!
> 
> GEC KT66 clear glass - basically the same as the Philips Miniwatt KT66 clear glass.


Or you could say that the Miniwatt-labeled ones are, in fact, GEC tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning CJ, I am looking to go out on a tear, and wondered if you had an opinion as to whether the power tube or driver tube made a larger contribution to the final sound. Am looking to possibly pick up a pair of Western Electric 350B's.  With the idea that they can be used in a new amp, yet to be determined.  They are expensive but supposed to be the best sounding so they would be a good investment in the future, even if they don't make the Euforia the top of the line.  The 1.6 heater current is not to extreme, but a quad is would be running 6.4 amps and that pushes the amp near the op top.  But for a new amp they might be just what I am looking for.  These are just behind the WE 300B tubes in price and desireability.  For the Euforia, would be overpriced but for use in a future amp may need a quad as opposed to a pair.  Supplies are getting scarce so it might pay to get a quad now to get the quad. Supplier has three matched pairs left here in the States, $1500 a pair, so I want to make sure that I won't overload amp with a quad.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Or you could say that the Miniwatt-labeled ones are, in fact, GEC tubes.



That's what my supplier says. They are the same despite different branding. He also told me the same is true for the KT66 smoke glass - Marconi, GEC, Mullard, they are the same. He has been using these tubes for 20+ years in his Leak and other tube stereo amps so he would know. What I'm amazed is that he has so many that he bought so many years ago at cheap prices !!! I wish I started on this hobby 20 years ago. If wishes were horses...


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Or you could say that the Miniwatt-labeled ones are, in fact, GEC tubes.



Nice to see you haven't deserted our hallowed hobby O...hope you're keeping well, old friend......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning CJ, I am looking to go out on a tear, and wondered if you had an opinion as to whether the power tube or driver tube made a larger contribution to the final sound. Am looking to possibly pick up a pair of Western Electric 350B's.  With the idea that they can be used in a new amp, yet to be determined.  They are expensive but supposed to be the best sounding so they would be a good investment in the future, even if they don't make the Euforia the top of the line.  The 1.6 heater current is not to extreme, but a quad is would be running 6.4 amps and that pushes the amp near the op top.  But for a new amp they might be just what I am looking for.  These are just behind the WE 300B tubes in price and desireability.  For the Euforia, would be overpriced but for use in a future amp may need a quad as opposed to a pair.  Supplies are getting scarce so it might pay to get a quad now to get the quad. Supplier has three matched pairs left here in the States, $1500 a pair, so I want to make sure that I won't overload amp with a quad.



Wow cf...you're really pushing the boat out with those WE 350Bs lol!  I suspect that as you hint, they're way OTT for use in our amps, and probably wouldn't sound a lot different to the 7581A. But things would be a lot different of course in an amp specifically configured for them, and pushing them much harder. Mind you, as with my upcoming reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66s, it sure would be interesting to compare!! 

As for whether drivers or powers contribute more to the sound, I personally have veered away from the generally regarded verdict on the side of _drivers_, to a position where I firmly believe that _both_ have equal impact...especially since experiencing the EL family as triode-strapped pentodes, and now the 6L6/7581 family of beam power tubes. My own view is that as with so many other aspects of our gear, it's *how they interact* that will determine final results - that oft-used word _synergy_, if you will. And the frustrating thing is that it seems this interaction can be far from predictable lol!  But then of course, this can also be a source of great interest, not to mention excitement when a pairing produces totally unexpected (good!) results .

And if you do go for a quad of those WEs (yet another closet millionaire lol!), our amps will be able to handle the total heater current draw with no real problem...GOOD LUCK!

ps. I now understand why an EL39 in the power slot accompanying 3x 7581As is helping lift my own performance - many in the 6L6/7581/KT66 community appear to regard 
the EL3*7 *as one of the very best of the breed, if not _the_ best. And given that certain French enthusiasts regard the EL3*9* as easily its equal (if not better!), then no wonder I'm liking the combo......CHEERS!


----------



## LoryWiv

UntilThen said:


> Don't worry Don. I've ordered one of these. It will be park outside my driveway.


I am in Northern California where fires, evacuations and power outages preclude much thought of tube rolling. if you can spare it, please send that shiny fire truck our way.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> I am in Northern California where fires, evacuations and power outages preclude much thought of tube rolling. if you can spare it, please send that shiny fire truck our way.



Hey LW...have you been caught up in some of those horrendous Cal disasters? I do hope you've managed to escape being too near the worst of them. My heart goes out to so many who have suffered unimaginably with those fires. When I travelled through some of those zones many years ago, I never dreamt of such tragedy on such a scale...just the odd mansion or 2 getting hit in Malibu!
Best wishes go out to you and your near ones...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 29, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hey LW...have you been caught up in some of those horrendous Cal disasters? I do hope you've managed to escape being too near the worst of them. My heart goes out to so many who have suffered unimaginably with those fires. When I travelled through some of those zones many years ago, I never dreamt of such tragedy on such a scale...just the odd mansion or 2 getting hit in Malibu!
> Best wishes go out to you and your near ones...CJ


I appreciate the good wishes, good sir. We have no power in Marin county where I live, and my dad, age 88, has been evacuated from Sonoma and is staying with us. One makes due and counts their blessings of course. I work in San Francisco where besides smokey air all is copacetic. I do hope to be back to tube rolling soon enough!


----------



## connieflyer

I hope this will be over for you soon, and you all make it through safely.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> That's what my supplier says. They are the same despite different branding. He also told me the same is true for the KT66 smoke glass - Marconi, GEC, Mullard, they are the same. He has been using these tubes for 20+ years in his Leak and other tube stereo amps so he would know. What I'm amazed is that he has so many that he bought so many years ago at cheap prices !!! I wish I started on this hobby 20 years ago. If wishes were horses...


Yep. The shape and construction are quite unique.

[Just a note that there are quite nice looking Chinese replicas of these: https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/kt66-valve-art.]


----------



## Oskari

LoryWiv said:


> I appreciate the good wishes, good sir. We have no power in Marin county where I live, and my dad, age 88, has been evacuated from Sonoma and is staying with us. One makes due and counts their blessings of course. I work in San Francisco where besides smokey air all is copacetic. I do hope to be back to tube rolling soon enough!


Best wishes with the problems there, sir!


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> I am in Northern California where fires, evacuations and power outages preclude much thought of tube rolling. if you can spare it, please send that shiny fire truck our way.



Sorry to hear that. Hope you get respite soon. We do get bad bush fires in Australia too.


----------



## Oskari

hypnos1 said:


> Nice to see you haven't deserted our hallowed hobby O...hope you're keeping well, old friend......CJ


Still lurking in the shadows. Multiple iterations behind in several ways... Hei, I'm slow! Hope you and the fish are good, buddy.


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Yep. The shape and construction are quite unique.
> 
> [Just a note that there are quite nice looking Chinese replicas of these: https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/kt66-valve-art.]



Question is how they sound compared to the NOS KT66.


----------



## Oskari

UntilThen said:


> Question is how they sound compared to the NOS KT66.


Yeah, that is a good question.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video unboxing of Euforia!


----------



## UntilThen

Oskari said:


> Yeah, that is a good question.



The Marconi KT66 smoke glass is a very beautiful looking tube. Even more stunning than GEC 6as7g.

I’m actually just as excited to try the Brimar 6L6G black glass, Philips Miniwatt EL34 DD and OO getters. Very good tubes.

The GEC KT88 is the most expensive of the lot. Not sure why.


----------



## LoryWiv

UntilThen said:


> Sorry to hear that. Hope you get respite soon. We do get bad bush fires in Australia too.



Appreciated, @UntilThen and @Oskari. We are doing fine, and this too shall pass.


----------



## hypnos1

Oskari said:


> Still lurking in the shadows. Multiple iterations behind in several ways... Hei, I'm slow! Hope you and the fish are good, buddy.



Hey O...nice to hear you're still out there in the wings - keeps us on our toes lol!  As for the fish, they're doing just fine now thanks...better than I actually! 
Take care...

ps. Methinks you do indeed have a fair bit of catching up to do...sleep can wait! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a video unboxing of Euforia!




Hi DG...hope you haven't strained your wrists/arms _too_ much lol! 

But thanks for the video, and looking forward to your more in-depth review. You already have a fair grasp of Euforia's virtues and signature...a very 'clean'; clear; well balanced, detailed presentation without sounding 'clinical'. And I'm sure you have many more hours to go yet before she really blossoms! ...HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, after my recent eye-opening experience of the 3x 7581A + 1x EL39 combo and Raymond Daveluy's 192kHz 24bit 'Organ Recital' through the Empyreans, I naturally had to see what it would do as pre-out to the Tannoy XT6fs. And with the other half banished to the dentist, I'm at this very moment trying to shake the walls (while waiting for next door to bang on them!!).

Well, after filling the room with Widor's Organ Symphony No 5 (Toccata : Allegro) and glued to the spot in wonder, I'm now seeing just what happens with Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue in D minor. And what can I say...simply lost for words. This is the sort of recorded organ sound I've been waiting years to hear. And once again, not the slightest hint of distortion from the Tannoys, as with the Empys...and no way do I dare turn the volume up any further lol!  Every note - and there's masses of them! - is clear and with no smurring. And that bass pedal is vibrating my whole being...(sorry neighbour). Plus, there are notes in other tracks that I could swear were coming from another room somewhere...the projection from these Tannoys is quite remarkable, aided by the Euforia setup's now best soundstage I've ever heard.

Ah well folks, enough from me for now...I need to close my eyes and drown in this glorious sound. Besides, the words are lost again...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hi CJ, funny I did the same thing last night, and also listened to Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue in D minor, among many other pieces of music, both popular, new age and classical.  With just over 100 hours the tubes are shaping up nicely. The improvement was worth the wait. Bass is excellent, mid's could use a little more empathize but still decent, high's are present and plentiful. Music system go a very good workout yesterday, always good to let the speaker system get a little exercise!  I think that the neighbors, maybe putting together a petition to allow them to have input into the playlist!  Which, I would be glad to do. With the cooler weather, house is closed up tight, so I am free to run at high volume without complaint.  First thing this morning, after coffee of course, when through and rearranged the britabrac that had been vibrated to new positions last night. Eager to get more hours on these tubes to see if they in fact will beat out my EL11 mesh plates,  and EL39 and Mazda EL38's.  AS of now, not quite but it is getting closer.  Also eager to see how you like the KT66, I may go down that route as well, or a highly rated 6l6 family member.


----------



## UntilThen

Don, I'll be getting these 2 pairs of Brimar 6L6G & GA, besides the 10 pairs of KT66... and 4 pairs of EL34... haha. Perhaps think of it as an investment. 

6L6 has characteristic of KT66. http://www.bountyhunterfive.com/shows.html


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 30, 2019)

Well guys, a bit of bad news for the KT66 adaption for the Euforia. After getting two NOS pristine GEC KT66's and two 7581 adapters from Xuling (the same adapter for KT66, 6L6 and perhaps KT77, KT88 and I think even EL34)... The sound I'm getting is distortion / clipping and imbalance. Per the imbalance that may very well be my own fault for having to get two separate KT66's from what appears to be a different decade so I may be trying to replace one of them. The distortion is usually a tell-tale sign that something isn't right - not a miswired circuit but perhaps the Euforia is saying it doesn't bode well with her (improper cathode bias perhaps). The distortion turns into clipping at medium loud levels and it's faintly present even at quiet levels. Powering it instead with my externally heated multi board actually fixed the balance to some extent, but it's still near around 10% louder from the old tube. I've got a feeling the slightly older GEC's are better. I've also got a feeling, based on what I've been reading on the 7581's that these gel better with the Euforia.

I ran it for about 4 hours with both regular 6SN7 drivers and EL11 which it liked much better. I also compared the sound to the cheapo RCA 6AS7G and with the RCA I got a fuller more resolving sound, vs. somewhat thin like UT said. So for anyone interested in going the KT66 route on the Euforia, I would recommend to quit while you're ahead.

Of course YMMV on your amp. I would actually say the Genalex KT66 may have some potential as YMMV, and especially being if it's a matched pair and different brand. Do take note of the *importance to find a matched pair* if going this route at all.

For me personally it's not a major blow or anything being that among others I have 2 complete pristine pairs of silver band EL39 which did sound better on this test even during lower distortion parts of a song. I had mainly got these for my upcoming Glenn amp which may perform quite differently.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ, funny I did the same thing last night, and also listened to Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue in D minor, among many other pieces of music, both popular, new age and classical.  With just over 100 hours the tubes are shaping up nicely. The improvement was worth the wait. Bass is excellent, mid's could use a little more empathize but still decent, high's are present and plentiful. Music system go a very good workout yesterday, always good to let the speaker system get a little exercise!  I think that the neighbors, maybe putting together a petition to allow them to have input into the playlist!  Which, I would be glad to do. With the cooler weather, house is closed up tight, so I am free to run at high volume without complaint.  First thing this morning, after coffee of course, when through and rearranged the britabrac that had been vibrated to new positions last night. Eager to get more hours on these tubes to see if they in fact will beat out my EL11 mesh plates,  and EL39 and Mazda EL38's.  AS of now, not quite but it is getting closer.  Also eager to see how you like the KT66, I may go down that route as well, or a highly rated 6l6 family member.



Bach for you too cf?...weird!!

Anyway, today's neighbour-bashing via the Tannoys, and later some more of my favourite Loreena McKennitt's offerings - 'Nights from the Alhambra' - via the Empys, have highlighted even more interesting factors re. the reissue Tung Sol 7581As (with an EL39 in tow!)...ie (from my own experience at least) :

1. I would now say 150 hrs burn-in is the *minimum *needed for this tube, with improvement continuing well into 200+ hrs.
2. Bass has kept reaching even lower over the extended period, and interestingly now also has greater _'character'/'colour'/tonal range_, along with more solidity/impact.
3. Any hint of slightly subdued 'sparkle/energy' (ie. treble extension, range and clarity) that I may have implied previously is now totally quashed. In fact, these tubes are pulling off the minor miracle of not only excelling in treble delivery, but also managing to tame a _highly_ over-trebled and ear-piercing 'All cried out' by Alison Moyet, _without _diminishing her otherwise magical performance...the sibilance being much easier to swallow lol! 

And which brings me to something that's got me scratching my head somewhat...ie. the apparent vast difference in my and your _mids_ presentation!
By the time of your 100 hrs or so, I was still wondering whether they were in fact just a tad _too_ prominent...the opposite to your own experience D. And which is contrary to the usually similar response of our respective systems....strange!!
Perhaps yours is different enough in this instance as to need a good bit longer than mine before a more balanced delivery emerges? Or perhaps it is indeed due to the need for 3rd party adapters? After all, I know from my own trials that _converting_ the tube by taking TOTL wires _direct _to the tube's wires, and dispensing with any additional socket brings greater benefits than even my own 'OTT' _adapter._ But it's still strange there should be such a _large_ difference re. mids. Perhaps your adapters also need much longer burn-in?...time will tell, no doubt!! 

Whatever, I'm afraid you've still a way to go mon ami. This 7581A is now _definitely_ proving to need more hours on it than _any_ other tube I have ever come across. And so will test the patience _par excellence!!_ But as already stated many times..._the wait is worth it!_...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Further to your mention of the WE 350B, I saw another interesting comment from someone doing a comparison with other tubes of the same family... ie. that the EL37 sounded somewhere between it and a *NOS* KT66. And we all(?!) know by now what's regarded by certain quarters as at least the 37's equal..._the *EL39!*_ ...BFN


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Well guys, a bit of bad news for the KT66 adaption for the Euforia. After getting two NOS pristine GEC KT66's and two 7581 adapters from Xuling (the same adapter for KT66, 6L6 and perhaps KT77, KT88 and I think even EL34)... The sound I'm getting is distortion / clipping and imbalance. Per the imbalance that may very well be my own fault for having to get two separate KT66's from what appears to be a different decade so I may be trying to replace one of them. The distortion is usually a tell-tale sign that something isn't right - not a miswired circuit but perhaps the Euforia is saying it doesn't bode well with her (improper cathode bias perhaps). The distortion turns into clipping at medium loud levels and it's faintly present even at quiet levels. Powering it instead with my externally heated multi board actually fixed the balance to some extent, but it's still near around 10% louder from the old tube. I've got a feeling the slightly older GEC's are better. I've also got a feeling, based on what I've been reading on the 7581's that these gel better with the Euforia.
> 
> I ran it for about 4 hours with both regular 6SN7 drivers and EL11 which it liked much better. I also compared the sound to the cheapo RCA 6AS7G and with the RCA I got a fuller more resolving sound, vs. somewhat thin like UT said. So for anyone interested in going the KT66 route on the Euforia, I would recommend to quit while you're ahead.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info DL...if somewhat disappointing lol!  But I still look forward to seeing how my own system takes (or not!!) to the reissue Genalex Gold Lions, that should be arriving tomorrow. It does seem strange, considering on paper it should perform the same as the 7581/A. But then, the British KT66 is indeed a somewhat different animal.
So I echo your own warning for others here not to try these versions until I've at least tested this particular reissue...and luckily I also have one of Mrsx's adapters to test with as well as my own...CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

Hello CJ, don't understand the difference either in the mid's.  But I am finding that these tubes, in my system, are stranger than any previously burned in.  Bass is much more "in your face" so to speak. I just had to readjust the subwoofer, raised it 2 db.  It was just too much and not nice and clean, so these have a long way to go I am afraid.  Just now put on the Senn 800 phones,  and I must say the mid's are here fine,  much more balanced across the board. Something in the preamp output is amiss.  Have to track that down.  Last night the system played for several hours and sounded fantastic, so do not understand what has changed today.  Well  must shut down for awhile and give the amp and tubes a break.  But for now on headphones this is sounding quite good.  I have a feeling some of this may be due to the adapters from Mr. X, I have had a couple in the past that had to be replaced, which it was done quite quickly by them.  OH good grief, Diana Krall just came on with S'Marvelous, and if I closed my eyes, I could reach out and touch her, love it. Good luck on the KT 66's CJ,  DL's experience may be due to differences in systems and tube manufacturers.  Due keep us informed.  Feel I have another 50+  hours in burn  time left. If things are not perfect by then, will have to attribute it to the adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> OH good grief, Diana Krall just came on with S'Marvelous, and if I closed my eyes, I could reach out and touch her, love it.



Watch it Don. Such hallucinations is dangerously exciting for anyone, even me.


----------



## connieflyer

When you reach my age,  hallucinations and real life are interchangeable,  old friend!  Nice tube selection too, you should be set for awhile


----------



## DecentLevi

Look at this graph on electrical conductivity on materials. No wonder the Euforia sounds so much better than Elise, and why the likes of H1's adapters reportedly sound so much better than the ones with brass pins
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108/Electrical_Conductivity_of_Materials


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Look at this graph on electrical conductivity on materials. No wonder the Euforia sounds so much better than Elise, and why the likes of H1's adapters reportedly sound so much better than the ones with brass pins
> https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108/Electrical_Conductivity_of_Materials



DL...I'm quite sure that the pure silver signal wiring in Euforia helps a good deal towards its sound (which is precisely why I asked F-A to use it lol!), and when it comes to _audio_, it's also the wire's _purity_ that will influence the final outcome. This is where mono-crystal OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) has proved to be the wire of choice for TOTL use...and I personally wouldn't use anything else now......


----------



## hypnos1 (Oct 31, 2019)

OK guys.....................................*GOOD - No, GREAT news re. the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66*.....................................

After a (very) bad day, it was rescued (once again!) by coming home to a package of our wondrous glass marvels - ie. a matched pair of these Electro-Harmonix reissue Genalex KT66s. And I'm happy, if not very pleasantly surprised after @DecentLevi 's unfortunate experience to say that straight out of the box, and as a driver to a 7581A power, there's _*no hint whatsoever of hum, clipping or distortion of any kind!*_ Even with the vol knob at max, no music playing, or at unlistenable playing volume levels.

And what's even more surprising (and exciting!) is the fact that straight out of the box, it's sounding very good indeed lol ...far better than the new 7581A did as driver in the early days. Apparently these tubes from Hot Rox UK have had a certain amount of burn-in already, but nonetheless I'm sure it's nowhere near the full amount (150+ hours minimum IMHO) this tube family needs. So to sound this good already bodes extremely well for this reasonably priced tube. And going by my initial gut reaction after years of experimenting with 'unorthodox' tubes (and which is usually not too far off the mark, fortunately!), I suspect this KT66 could well eventually surpass the 7581A...truly, lol! 

And as @UntilThen says , the KT66 is indeed a beautiful tube...and this particular Russian (again) reissue looks as well constructed as I'm sure to be close to, if not as good as, the original...a thing of beauty indeed. It's also a very _large_ tube, as can be seen from the photos below. But more important, of course, is how it _sounds_...and apart from stage needing to develop a bit more yet - which it will most certainly do with more hours on it - it's already a match for the reissue Tung Sol 7581A...amazing!

Plus, I have just popped one in the power slot - driven by its partner - and once again, *total silence* where it should be, and still not the slightest hint of distortion or complaint from the amp. And this is with one of Mrsx's (first) adapters...which will be fine for burn-in, but will be replaced with one of my own ASAP lol! 

And so DL, regarding your bad experience, I can only surmise that either your tubes are at fault, or your adapters...unless there's something very strange going on re. compatibility with some of your other gear...???? I myself can't see why there should be any difference between NOS tubes and these identically constructed reissues (although stranger things have happened lol!)...but I've no intention of paying silly money for the former, especially given how these particular copies are sounding already lol!  I just hope your own tubes prove to be OK in your next amp...CJ

ps...............PHOTOS......

 

pps. Can't wait to get a lot more hours on these beauties......


----------



## UntilThen

LOL CJ, Elise and Euforia seems to run with any tubes.

Does anyone want to sell me their ElIse or Euforia in mint condition cheap? And 230v. 

I will have a ton of pentode tubes to try soon.

Either that or I get an Elekit TU-8800


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> LOL CJ, Elise and Euforia seems to run with any tubes.
> 
> Does anyone want to sell me their ElIse or Euforia in mint condition cheap? And 230v.
> 
> ...



Yo UT...I thought it quite amazing how our amps responded to the (triode-strapped) EL38 and 39...but to get the performance I'm now enjoying from the 7581A/KT66 family of beam power tubes is fair blowing my mind lol!..._what next?!!!_..._please_ don't tempt me......CJ


----------



## UntilThen

CJ, if you could use KT66, I don’t see why you can’t run 6L6 or EL34.

I like the implementation of 6V6 in my Studio Six. Perhaps try that too. It’s cheaper and plentiful.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> CJ, if you could use KT66, I don’t see why you can’t run 6L6 or EL34.
> 
> I like the implementation of 6V6 in my Studio Six. Perhaps try that too. It’s cheaper and plentiful.



Hi UT. From all the comments I've read so far from users of the 6L6 family, there seem to be few (if any!) that at the cheaper reissue prices perform better than the TS 7581A or the Genalex Gold Lion KT66...and I have far too many tubes already (even if nothing to your own M! ). So I shall leave any other testing to those who may want to give them a try lol....

ps. Many also recommend the EL34 only if you want/need even more enhanced mids...and I'm getting quite enough already thanks!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys.....................................*GOOD - No, GREAT news re. the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66*.....................................
> 
> After a (very) bad day, it was rescued (once again!) by coming home to a package of our wondrous glass marvels - ie. a matched pair of these Electro-Harmonix reissue Genalex KT66s. And I'm happy, if not very pleasantly surprised after @DecentLevi 's unfortunate experience to say that straight out of the box, and as a driver to a 7581A power, there's _*no hint whatsoever of hum, clipping or distortion of any kind!*_ Even with the vol knob at max, no music playing, or at unlistenable playing volume levels.
> 
> ...


Oh no, hear we go again!!


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Oh no, hear we go again!!



Afraid so, S...but it all started with ZRW0, so I blame him lol! 

ps. Man, this is one gorgeous looking (and sounding) tube...and its origins are BRITISH...whoopee!!!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Afraid so, S...but it all started with ZRW0, so I blame him lol!
> 
> ps. Man, this is one gorgeous looking (and sounding) tube...and its origins are BRITISH...whoopee!!!


It certainly is a looker, h1, has a rather muscular look to it compared to the 7581A, and the fact it's origins are british means I shall just have to force myself to buy a pair, just to confirm what you're saying, of course!


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> It certainly is a looker, h1, has a rather muscular look to it compared to the 7581A, and the fact it's origins are british means I shall just have to force myself to buy a pair, just to confirm what you're saying, of course!



Good man, S......


----------



## connieflyer

Always liked the looks of the kt66, and I am tempted again, I've got to get off the internet for a while this is starting to cost more money than I need to spend. And when I croak the guy that's going to get all the electronics that I have here is it going to have a clue as the what tubes go with what tubes and I'm not going to write down the instructions either! But at the prices that they're asking for these reissue tubes I may just have to buy a pair of them. Oh good lord I just said I was going to buy a pair of them CJ, if I ever get over to England you better make yourself scarce! Good luck with the tube CJ.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys.....................................*GOOD - No, GREAT news re. the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66*.....................................
> 
> After a (very) bad day, it was rescued (once again!) by coming home to a package of our wondrous glass marvels - ie. a matched pair of these Electro-Harmonix reissue Genalex KT66s. And I'm happy, if not very pleasantly surprised after @DecentLevi 's unfortunate experience to say that straight out of the box, and as a driver to a 7581A power, there's _*no hint whatsoever of hum, clipping or distortion of any kind!*_ Even with the vol knob at max, no music playing, or at unlistenable playing volume levels.
> 
> ...


You are having too much fun, @hypnos1, or perhaps just the right amount. Question on the Genalex Gold Lion KT66: They look to be quiter large, do they fit as a driver pair comfortably in the Elise / Euforia sockets? Photos welcomed!


----------



## connieflyer (Oct 31, 2019)

I think CJ is done for tonight LoryWiv,,  but CJ's pictures show they fit fine in both sockets.  I am considering these as well..
The pictures are on the previous page.


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> I think CJ is done for tonight LoryWiv,,  but CJ's pictures show they fit fine in both sockets.  I am considering these as well..
> The pictures are on the previous page.


I've just ordered a pair, with a bit of luck they should arrive by Saturday, in the meantime I shall enjoy the burn in of the 7581A


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> I think CJ is done for tonight LoryWiv,,  but CJ's pictures show they fit fine in both sockets.  I am considering these as well..
> The pictures are on the previous page.


Right you are. Thank you @connieflyer


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 1, 2019)

For KT66 you are using the same adapters as for 7581A? As far as I've seen yes but better to ask.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> For KT66 you are using the same adapters as for 7581A? As far as I've seen yes but better to ask.


Yes it O, I shall be using the same adapters when my KT66 arrive, hopefully tomorrow.


----------



## connieflyer

Now approaching 140 hours and back on the pre amp out for the last hour or so, and whatever the problem was with the mids, last time, all is well again. Weird. Very nice across the board.  Perhaps the tubes heard me say I was looking into getting the KT66's to replace them, and decided to play nice! Well, it is as good a reason as I could decern, nothing physical has been changed, including the playlist, from last time when mids were recessed.  One of the reasons I love tubes, there is always a new mystery to figure out.


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> Yes it O, I shall be using the same adapters when my KT66 arrive, hopefully tomorrow.



Good to know, @Scutey. Wondering if you or @hypnos1 who I think have both TS 7581A and GL KT66 can comment on their use together, I would think based on heater current the KT66 as powers driving 7581A's would be logical but the reverse would be of interest of course too.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

As for me, my adapters for the TS 7581A just arrived for the Elise and I hope to find time to get them started burning in as powers to various drivers this weekend. I can't try the TS 7581A as drivers since all of my other powers have traditional 2.5 A heater current such that the total would be 6.8, exceeding Elise's comfort zone. Hence my interest in whether KT66 powering TS 7581A drivers is a winning combo.. as that totals 4.4 A and should run cool as a cucumber!


----------



## barontan2418

And why not. Two KT66's on their way. 7581's are getting better by the day. HD650 sounds excellent in Euforia with these tubes and HD800 is getting there. Still a good many hours to go but enjoying the journey.


----------



## UntilThen

Try running on all 4 KT66.


----------



## connieflyer

UT that is exactly what I'm thinking of doing, the squad of 7581a is doing very well indeed at 140 + hours, so I'm really thinking about doing that very thing


----------



## hypnos1

Sorry for late replies @LoryWiv , @Scutey , @barontan2418 , @OctavianH ...and thanks for piping in @connieflyer . Had hoped to give more info this morning, but another trying day alas...

Anyway, yet again the day was rescued - albeit in advance lol! - by my welcome this morning to another overnight (10 hrs) on the 1x 7581A/1x GL KT66 drivers to 1x EL39/1x GL KT66 powers. And to hopefully answer several questions at once - yes, LW...2x KT66s will fit side-by-side as drivers also (even if rather cosily lol ); this tube sounds wonderful driving a 7581A...and even *better *another GL KT66 . Even at nowhere near full burn-in this morning, I wasn't ready for such a sound this early on. I was so impressed in fact that I decided there and then I need another pair of these beauties...but what does cf tell me?...*there's none left at Hot Rox UK...tragedy!!* And it looks like I don't need to look too far for the culprits lol!  Ah well, I shouldn't be too greedy I suppose...and am glad they've gone to my brothers in arms!! 
But sure have put myself on the list for the next shipment...thank goodness I suspect there'll be a good wholesale supply of these Russian reissues...

ps. I should add that the stellar performance already from my two is while using one of my own adapters, and one of Mrsx's...(that for the 7581A, being the same pinout). So now I'm even _more_ impatient to see how they perform after _full_ surgery!! And can only hope your own systems repeat my findings, and bring you the same degree of wonderment...GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT that is exactly what I'm thinking of doing, the squad of 7581a is doing very well indeed at 140 + hours, so I'm really thinking about doing that very thing



May I wish you an early Christmas then...... looks like you have a lot of toys (tubes) to play with 

Meanwhile out of nowhere, I'll be getting an Oblivion for review ..... maybe in time for Christmas. For all my love of tubes, this one doesn't really need good tubes to shine.... it seems. Will find out when it comes.  http://ultrasonicstudios.org/amps/


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 1, 2019)

I ordered 2 pieces of Genalex KT66 and 4 pieces of Tung Sol 7581A from a local shop. Hard to say why, since after every tube rolling I always return to the same combo. Anyway, Genalex KT66 Gold Lion can be found here in Germany:
https://www.btb-elektronik.de/search?filter=kt66 genalex
This is a nice shop from where I ordered my Psvane CV181T2. So, you can find here pieces, pairs or even quads. Just search for "KT66" and you will find them.
The local shop from where I ordered did not have the "matched" option, but I do not expect to have problems.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I ordered 2 pieces of Genalex KT66 and 4 pieces of Tung Sol 7581A from a local shop. Hard to say why, since after every tube rolling I always return to the same combo. Anyway, Genalex KT66 Gold Lion can be found here in Germany:
> https://www.btb-elektronik.de/search?filter=kt66 genalex
> This is a nice shop from where I ordered my Psvane CV181T2. So, you can find here pieces, pairs or even quads. Just search for "KT66" and you will find them.
> The local shop from where I ordered sold did not have the "matched" option, but I do not expect to have problems.



Should compare the Genalex KT66 with these original KT66... all in the name of science, to find out how they compare. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-Ma...471806?hash=item44481a7dbe:g:x9YAAOSwhYRdocR5

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KT66-CV...a=1&pg=2557460&_trksid=p2557460.c101111.m2109

I'm getting my 10 pairs of KT66 smoke and clear glass in the new year. That pair of GEC KT66 smoke glass from Langrex looks good ! but mine will cost half of that and NOS.


----------



## UntilThen

But why deplete the world's supply of KT66. Try these 5881 instead. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tung-So...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## Scutey

UntilThen said:


> Should compare the Genalex KT66 with these original KT66... all in the name of science, to find out how they compare.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-Ma...471806?hash=item44481a7dbe:g:x9YAAOSwhYRdocR5
> 
> ...


Not sure if you could tempt Octavian but you could probably temp me!


----------



## UntilThen

Scutey said:


> Not sure if you could tempt Octavian but you could probably temp me!



Scutey, I don't need to tempt you because many others are already tempted and succumbed. KT66 will be hunted to extinction soon because..... 

1) Users of Lampizator DACs loves the NOS KT66, especially the smoke glass.

2) Several prospective Head-Fiers in Glenn thread have already decided that they will have a custom amp being make to run with GEC L63 and Marconi, GEC, Osram, Mullard KT66 smoke and clear glass.

So if you want in on the action, you have to move fast. Strangely the KT66 looks a bit like the GEC 6as7g but only a LOT MORE GORGEOUS.


----------



## OctavianH

Yep, you cannot tempt me. I always return to my Psvane CV181T2 and my Tung Sol 5998. I've done this after GEC 6AS7G, then I've tried the WE 421A..and so on... But you could tempt me if you would sell me a pair of Tung Sol 5998 clear top which is the only one I'm missing in my 3 pairs I already own.


----------



## UntilThen (Nov 1, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Yep, you cannot tempt me. I always return to my Psvane CV181T2 and my Tung Sol 5998. I've done this after GEC 6AS7G, then I've tried the WE 421A..and so on... But you could tempt me if you would sell me a pair of Tung Sol 5998 clear top which is the only one I'm missing in my 3 pairs I already own.



I could scrape off the chrome of my 5998 and sell them to you as the clear tops?  Trust me the chrome tops 5998 sounds like a million bucks on my WA22 with Verite now. If only I could stick in the KT66 but that will blow the WA22 sky high.

Cossor 53ku, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp and Tung Sol 5998 (from a military warehouse in Saigon and this a NOS pair - as NOS and new as you can get)

P/S that pair of brown adapters for the 6F8G came from Poland.... I strongly suspect they were made by Feliks Audio...


----------



## OctavianH

Well, I have to admit I like the WA22, but for me the interesting part would be Tung Sol 5998 + WE 422A + Psvane CV181T2 connected to RME ADI-2 DAC via balanced (XLR) connection. That would be something I want to try with my T1.
But I will, most probably, not try this so... let's hope the Tung Sol 7581A or the Genalex KT66 will sound good on my Elise.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> *there's none left at Hot Rox UK...tragedy!!* And it looks like I don't need to look too far for the culprits lol!


Guilty as charged h1


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 1, 2019)

Okay, then 150+ on the 7581A's and they are sounding better than before. It is hard to believe the difference from when I first started with them and now.  So much better,  well worth the wait. According to CJ, they will continue to improve and I can see from these recent listening that there is room for  improvement.  Not much, but just on the trailing edge of female choir, some female vocals the trailing edge is just a little bit not quite rounded.  Listening to Lacrimosa, the very top of the register is not quite there yet, but much improved from  the listening at 100 hours.  So while these continue to burn in, I have ordered a quad of the KT66 Genalex tubes, with 24 hour burn in so they will have a start on them, should be fun.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Well, I have to admit I like the WA22, but for me the interesting part would be Tung Sol 5998 + WE 422A + Psvane CV181T2 connected to RME ADI-2 DAC via balanced (XLR) connection. That would be something I want to try with my T1.
> But I will, most probably, not try this so... let's hope the Tung Sol 7581A or the Genalex KT66 will sound good on my Elise.


Hope you like them, I've found them to be very good with rock and metal, paired with the T1, especially once you get past about 40 hours.


----------



## Scutey

I've been so tied up in burning in the 7581A's, plus trying to avoid the upheaval of building work that's going on at my house that I forgot to mention a new hp acquisition, a pair of the ZMF Atticus, and they certainly love FA amps, they are rather picky of recording and genre, but for classic rock and jazz, especially contemporary jazz they are sublime.


----------



## OctavianH

Scutey said:


> Hope you like them, I've found them to be very good with rock and metal, paired with the T1, especially once you get past about 40 hours.



I am quite sure I will like them and I am determined to wait at least 100 hours until I will judge them. And when the clock will show 100 hours I will listen to this album:






We will see then how Transylvania or Strange World will sound, tracks which are one of my all times favourites. After all, I live in Transylvania


----------



## UntilThen

Scutey said:


> I've been so tied up in burning in the 7581A's, plus trying to avoid the upheaval of building work that's going on at my house that I forgot to mention a new hp acquisition, a pair of the ZMF Atticus, and they certainly love FA amps, they are rather picky of recording and genre, but for classic rock and jazz, especially contemporary jazz they are sublime.



I had the Eikon and Atticus before !!! Great HPs with Elise and Euforia.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> I am quite sure I will like them and I am determined to wait at least 100 hours until I will judge them. And when the clock will show 100 hours I will listen to this album:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will check out Transylvania... Sylvania ?


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I am quite sure I will like them and I am determined to wait at least 100 hours until I will judge them. And when the clock will show 100 hours I will listen to this album:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear Octavian, also great tracks from a great album, actually I bought the 2015 remastered CD only last week, and it's a very good version .


----------



## Scutey

UntilThen said:


> I had the Eikon and Atticus before !!! Great HPs with Elise and Euforia.


I haven't heard the Eikon yet but as you say, the Atticus pairs well with both, less so on my ss amp, it certainly loves tubes, more lively.


----------



## UntilThen

Scutey said:


> I haven't heard the Eikon yet but as you say, the Atticus pairs well with both, less so on my ss amp, it certainly loves tubes, more lively.



Eikon is airier, better treble extension and clarity, details. Atticus has great mid bass and sounds warmer than Eikon.

A mistake to sell both but I have Verite now which I love more than my HD800 and LCD-3f. In fact I sold off the LCD-3f because I wasn’t using it after Verite came.

Mine is Verite Open LTD in Pheasant wood.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> I will check out Transylvania... Sylvania ?



No, just Transylvania where a guy comes out at night and drinks your blood. Something like:


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> No, just Transylvania where a guy comes out at night and drinks your blood. Something like:




LOL Vampire !!!


----------



## OctavianH

Not me, this guy:






He lives 40km from me in a castle and people say he drinks blood. Hard to say why, I drink beer.


----------



## DecentLevi

Super helpful must-read article from folks who are going down our same 6L6 / KT66 path:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l
It seems they may prefer the Tung Sol KT66 and Genalex Gold Lion KT88 but I could have misread it...


----------



## Scutey

UntilThen said:


> Eikon is airier, better treble extension and clarity, details. Atticus has great mid bass and sounds warmer than Eikon.
> 
> A mistake to sell both but I have Verite now which I love more than my HD800 and LCD-3f. In fact I sold off the LCD-3f because I wasn’t using it after Verite came.
> 
> Mine is Verite Open LTD in Pheasant wood.


There is an audio outlet here that does a loaner programme on ZMF hp's, it would be interesting to hear the differences for myself, sounds like the Eikon would be a good foil to the Atticus.


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> Good to know, @Scutey. Wondering if you or @hypnos1 who I think have both TS 7581A and GL KT66 can comment on their use together, I would think based on heater current the KT66 as powers driving 7581A's would be logical but the reverse would be of interest of course too.
> 
> Looking forward to your thoughts.
> 
> As for me, my adapters for the TS 7581A just arrived for the Elise and I hope to find time to get them started burning in as powers to various drivers this weekend. I can't try the TS 7581A as drivers since all of my other powers have traditional 2.5 A heater current such that the total would be 6.8, exceeding Elise's comfort zone. Hence my interest in whether KT66 powering TS 7581A drivers is a winning combo.. as that totals 4.4 A and should run cool as a cucumber!


Well I haven't got my KT66 yet, hopefully they should be arriving today, then I can have a good burn in/listening session.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Guilty as charged h1



Ah, S...might have known lol! ...However, all you snafflers have a (temporary!) reprieve as Hot Rox did in fact have just one single GL KT66 left in stock, and really - for now! - that's all I need/want, 'cos I'm not (ever!) taking my EL39 out of its slot lol! (unless to double up with something...perhaps!!) . But thanks for that German site link @OctavianH ...not a bad price either!


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 2, 2019)

DL if we read the same article, it looks like they favor the 7581A over the others.   Tube failure and was more common on the KT66 and was mentioned 14 times and the 7581A  was mentioned 36 times.  Sounds like it hit all the bases for more people. And they did mention the 150 hour burn in as minimum


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Super helpful must-read article from folks who are going down our same 6L6 / KT66 path:
> https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...-with-the-tung-sol-7581a-vs-el34-kt66-kt88-6l
> It seems they may prefer the Tung Sol KT66 and Genalex Gold Lion KT88 but I could have misread it...



Hi DL...this article is the main one that finally convinced me to go with Erwan's recommendation to try the 7581A...pretty well universally liked above many others of the same family, including some KTs lol!! Not much comment on the GL KT66 alas, and just one person's preference for the Tung Sol KT66 is nowhere near enough to go by...elsewhere I've spied much more enthusiasm for the Gold Lion version ...And don't forget, all other info has been concerning these tubes in amps that are driving them far differently to our amps . But re-reading this article has convinced me that I must have a go at making up my own facility for doubling up a 7581A with a GL KT66 (or EL39?)...but NOT the way 3rd party folks would do it lol!!! ...


----------



## connieflyer

Morning CJ, that is what I got out of it as well.  I did order a quad of KT 66 Gold Lion last night with the 24 hour burnin, so that will give me a step up in the burn in process.  Only $3 for service (wish they offered 100 hour) and all four tubes matched, so this will be the last tubes, I roll.  Too many really good combos in the tube caddy, that I probably would have been quite happy with.  Don't get me wrong, the improvements have been many, and appreciated. Listening to Karen Marie Garrett on piano playing Gnossienne No 1, and the timber of the piano is excellent.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I am quite sure I will like them and I am determined to wait at least 100 hours until I will judge them. And when the clock will show 100 hours I will listen to this album:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





OctavianH said:


> Not me, this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, OH..._finally_ I realise why you differ from most other folks in your findings lol. Your obvious love of _Heavy Metal_ has shone a bright (_fatal??!! ) _light on proceedings. 

_Bite_ (!!) is definitely not uppermost in the character of the GEC 6AS7G family, nor the EL tubes in general. Their sound is - dare I say it! - of a more_ refined, smoother _nature...suiting this particular more delicate flower much more so lol!  And I hesitate to say the 7581A/KT66 are also more in this 'less is more' category! And as such, I imagine that a more 'energetic' driver would be needed to inject a bit more of said bite. But who knows, perhaps in your own system they might just deliver a bit more of what you like, mon ami......GOOD LUCK!...CJ

ps. You sure you don't _live_ in that Castle, and that your middle name isn't _Vlad?!!_ ...


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Okay, then 150+ on the 7581A's and they are sounding better than before. It is hard to believe the difference from when I first started with them and now.  So much better,  well worth the wait. According to CJ, they will continue to improve and I can see from these recent listening that there is room for  improvement.  Not much, but just on the trailing edge of female choir, some female vocals the trailing edge is just a little bit not quite rounded. * Listening to Lacrimosa, the very top of the register is not quite there yet, but much improved from  the listening at 100 hours.*  So while these continue to burn in, I have ordered a quad of the KT66 Genalex tubes, with 24 hour burn in so they will have a start on them, should be fun.



Ah cf (hi, by the way)...this could well be why I don't want to remove my EL39...it does bring a bit more to treble presence especially lol 



connieflyer said:


> Morning CJ, that is what I got out of it as well.  I did order a quad of KT 66 Gold Lion last night with the 24 hour burnin, so that will give me a step up in the burn in process.  Only $3 for service (wish they offered 100 hour) and all four tubes matched, so this will be the last tubes, I roll.  Too many really good combos in the tube caddy, that I probably would have been quite happy with.  Don't get me wrong, the improvements have been many, and appreciated. Listening to Karen Marie Garrett on piano playing Gnossienne No 1, and the timber of the piano is excellent.



Well done on those partially burned in GLs...my own ones - even though couldn't be with many hours pre-burned - did sound remarkably good straight out of the box. And yes, this family of tubes does piano etc. _extremely _well. Looking forward to how you - and others - find these particular KT66s compared to the Tung Sol 7581As (which certainly sounded very encouraging indeed from my first perusal of that article).

And great though I and others, like yourself, have found many tubes in that 'caddy' since stock configuration, OH's experience proves perfectly the old saying there's no such thing as "One size fits all"!!! And there's nothing wrong with that lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, OH..._finally_ I realise why you differ from most other folks in your findings lol. Your obvious love of _Heavy Metal_ has shone a bright (_fatal??!! ) _light on proceedings.
> 
> _Bite_ (!!) is definitely not uppermost in the character of the GEC 6AS7G family, nor the EL tubes in general. Their sound is - dare I say it! - of a more_ refined, smoother _nature...suiting this particular more delicate flower much more so lol!  And I hesitate to say the 7581A/KT66 are also more in this 'less is more' category! And as such, I imagine that a more 'energetic' driver would be needed to inject a bit more of said bite. But who knows, perhaps in your own system they might just deliver a bit more of what you like, mon ami......GOOD LUCK!...CJ
> 
> ps. You sure you don't _live_ in that Castle, and that your middle name isn't _Vlad?!!_ ...



Indeed, the type of music I am listening is a little bit different and requires different weapons than the usual. I realize the clarity and refinement of the GEC 6AS7G or the WE421A, but they need warmer drivers in order to shine. I paired the WE 421A to the Ken-Rad VT-231, Foton '55 6H8C or the RCA VT-231 and they were a good pair. But the Psvanes CV181 which are very detailed and neutral, required the "punchy" bass of the 5998. I plan to use warmer drivers on the Tung Sol 7581A and also on the "Golden Lions". Let's hope I will find that synergy which will make me keep them for 100 hours on the Elise.

Regarding the castle, well, I guess even Vlad does not want to live there anymore, since the area is very crowded and the prices "exploded" in the last years. Thousands of people are coming daily to visit that small castle and to drive in that area is a real challenge. In my case I live in a much smaller but cozier place, and during winter it might be much better, even if Elise sometimes is a reliable source of heat


----------



## WolfP

Hi all,
2 questions for you...

Does this amp drive the low impedance Grado headphones well ?  Particularly the GH2...any feedback?

What is the difference between model 2019 and 2018?

Many thanks


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Regarding the castle, well, I guess even Vlad does not want to live there anymore



I wonder if Vlad is into tube amps and tubes. Or at least red blood looking tubes?


----------



## hypnos1

It’s no good guys...I should really be in my bed now, but listening to Fleetwood Mac’s ‘Oh Daddy’ from Rumours just now has made me do this quick post. With 1x Tung Sol7581A driving an EL39 in the left channel and 1x Genalex Gold Lion KT66 driving another in the right, all I can say at the moment is..*unbelievable!!*...more tomorrow (and this long before the GLs are fully burned in!).

G’night all...CJ...


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 2, 2019)

WolfP said:


> Hi all,
> 2 questions for you...
> 
> Does this amp drive the low impedance Grado headphones well ?  Particularly the GH2...any feedback?
> ...



While I'm not sure on the Grado pairings, here's what I can say:
The 2018 Euforia is the new Euforia v2
Their new amp in 2019 is the Fuforia Anniversary Edition, each of which incrementally use better internal components than the former such as transformer, etc. Due to the price of the newest one I personally I would recommend getting the Euforia v2 or if you're looking for good bang for buck at the expense of tube rolling options maybe even consider the Quad PA One "*+*" amp.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 2, 2019)

Good news from me too on the KT66:

Although for an unknown reason my specific (unmatched) pair of GEC KT66's are not giving clean / balanced sound in a conventional (one-tube-per-socket) setup for me - I am happy to report I am getting first-class sound out of a very unconventional setup. With my custom externally heated multi combo I paired 2x KT66 with 2x EL39 and got world class sound with tone, air, FR, etc. of _nearly _unrivaled levels. H1 was right on the KT66 + EL39 synergy, and this way the imbalance & distortion were completely gone. After some testing I finally found 2x GEC 6080 to synergize best with the former 4x as a 6x power combo, driven by 2x Valvo EL11 or EL12 Spez. The KT66 in this capacity is the sound of "love", a sound that likely has not been matched, one that I can't do without and that the mere notion of removing it seems like sacrilege.

The above was meant to illustrate the potential of the KT66 in the Euforia; although such multi-tube setup is not endorsed or specifically recommended. A better matched pair or a different brand should do quite nicely as 'conventional' powers on the Euforia. Or even Tung Sol KT66 or perhaps Genalex Gold Lion KT88 which are not too much more expensive than Gold Lion KT66. From my testing these are best suited in the 'powers' seat, as I got somewhat slow dynamics with these as drivers.


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 3, 2019)

I've spent the last day burning in the Tung Sol new production 7581A's in my Elise's power position, will share initial thoughts here as this thread has been the focus of 7581A discussion. Early days, but oh my I am impressed.The primary characteristics I note are clarity, linearity and coherence. There is superb balance across the frequencies and more than sufficient speed to keep up with complex musical passages without slurring. Stage height is better than any powers I've tried, including my trusty TS 7236's, with width / depth about the same and instrument placement as good or better. The "note thickness" is just right, whereas with the 7236 things sounded a bit thin at times. Compared to my TS 5998 powers the 7581A's are a little less warm, bringing more detail but not at the expense of a pleasing musicality and euphony.

All of these comparisons are with new production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB drivers and the 7581A's seated in adapters from Deyan.

I may roll in some NOS drivers like Sylvania 6SN7's to get a bit more top end sparkle, I want to hear if they can achieve that without being fatiguing, but the ones I recently ordered had unacceptable noise levels so that will have to wait.

Lastly, I am looking forward to hearing more impressions of the Genalex Gold Lion KT66's, specifically wondering if these magical 7581A's can really be bested, or if the KT66 as powers driven by the 7581A's would be a winning partnership. I don't have EL 38's or 39's, and am not a big fan of anode caps and connectors, so I am considering these simpler pairings and will appreciate any comparative impressions.

Now (really) lastly, thanks to the regulars in this thread for advancing the cause of musical bliss with our versatile Feliks-Audio amps. This is a great community!


----------



## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> I haven't heard the Eikon yet but as you say, the Atticus pairs well with both, less so on my ss amp, it certainly loves tubes, more lively.



congrats they look lovely. I Demoed these a while ago straight out the h2 before the euforia arrived in my life and ended up with the elegia, but if it had been the other way around I think having subsequently heard them at car jam via tubes, the decision might have been reversed. Interestingly the verite closeds (look away here, I’m about to be blasphemous) are very well match with solid state amplification supplied by hugo2 and even better out of the tt2. They have such and airy wide/tall/deep stage, so much headroom and a warmish side of neutral tuning that they compensate for the only short comings of the chord DACs while allowing all their clarity, dynamics and focused precision through. This has been some forced learning while my euforia’s been away. Back on topic, my euforia has not left the uk,  because audiobarn carried out some more tests under Lukasz guidance and surprise surprise they could recreate the issue and the amp’s performed flawlessly, 

Good news the euforia is okay, bad news a mains gremlin has moved into my house, effecting rooms on separate circuits, getting by my bmu and occ power cables. I’ll be collecting it on wednesday and more bad news the anniversary edition should probably be their with a days run in.........


----------



## OctavianH

DecentLevi said:


> While I'm not sure on the Grado pairings, here's what I can say:
> The 2018 Euforia is the new Euforia v2
> Their new amp in 2019 is the Fuforia Anniversary Edition, each of which incrementally use better internal components than the former such as transformer, etc. Due to the price of the newest one I personally I would recommend getting the Euforia v2 or if you're looking for good bang for buck at the expense of tube rolling options maybe even consider the Quad PA One "*+*" amp.



The Euforia Anniversary Edition should be priced around 2700 EUR and has a different wiring (not pure silver anymore but Neotech UP-OCC Single crystal) while this model (2019) has the same price as before and it is pure silver wired. I guess the model 2019 is similar with model 2018 with minor adjustments. The full description of the "20 years anniversary edition" can be seen here:






I start to have a feeling that these guys are re-releasing the same amp every year...


----------



## WolfP

OctavianH said:


> The Euforia Anniversary Edition should be priced around 2700 EUR and has a different wiring (not pure silver anymore but Neotech UP-OCC Single crystal) while this model (2019) has the same price as before and it is pure silver wired. I guess the model 2019 is similar with model 2018 with minor adjustments.



Thanks for the explanation


----------



## WolfP

DecentLevi said:


> While I'm not sure on the Grado pairings



Thanks anyway....let's see if anyone else can answer my question


----------



## connieflyer

Morning CJ, finally got about 170 hours on the 7581A, so decided to try your suggestion of adding an EL 39 in the power spot.  Again, I have to admit you have done your homework.  It adds to the flavor just enough. Like this as well.  Have to try this with the pre amp out after it gets a little later in the day.  Too early to disturb the neighbors!  KT66 should be here by Wednesday, so have so time to play with this combo.  Thanks again CJ.


----------



## OctavianH

Maybe I ask a stupid question, but regarding these asymetric combos (different types of tubes in L vs R socket), I was expecting that each channel of the HP has associated a power and also a driver tube. When you use such a combination are you obtaining different flavours for each headphone driver or?


----------



## mordy

Based on my experience with different  tubes in the past, if the tubes you are using are very similar sounding, your brain will synthesize the sound into a coherent sound stage.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Maybe I ask a stupid question, but regarding these asymetric combos (different types of tubes in L vs R socket), I was expecting that each channel of the HP has associated a power and also a driver tube. When you use such a combination are you obtaining different flavours for each headphone driver or?



Hi OH...not a stupid question, mon ami!

The short answer is each channel is indeed _independent..._with 2x drivers that is, as opposed to a single (double triode). So as such, each 'asymetric' combo will introduce its own particular flavour...and one that can contradict the generally held view that pairs should be of the exact same _make_, let alone _type_ lol!  I managed to dispel this myth years ago when I combined an FDD20 (20V) driver with an ECC31, with excellent results, showing that different tubes can indeed _complement_ each other rather than _clash_.

Anyway, more on this subject in my update post below re. the TS reissue 7581A and reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66...


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 3, 2019)

...............................................*LATEST UPDATE ON THE REISSUE TUNG SOL 7581A AND GENALEX GOLD LION KT66 *..................................

OK guys, as promised here's more on my own findings re. these tubes, which I probably shan't repeat, so anyone interested might perhaps want to bookmark....

After my last revelatory post, and with about 70 hrs now on the GL KT66s, I have confirmed what I found...and more lol! And this is with 1x TS 7581A + 1x GL KT66 as drivers to 1x EL39 and 1x GL KT66 respectively as powers :

1. This combination - in my system - is already delivering a performance I personally regard as _*superior*_ to the 3x TS 7581A/1x EL39 combo. It has a depth and richness to beat any other combo I have ever tried. And now that the stage has developed further in the KT66s, separation and placement are even more impressive...background vocals being more distinct from the main, for example, as with different instruments. But this more dynamic presentation is NOT at the expense of the higher frequencies - 'sparkle' etc. Excellent balance and clarity is maintained at all volume levels, despite bass being even _more_ solid and reaching deeper, and with upper bass/lower mids to die for.

2. Tonal range is exceptional...all under wonderful control and with effortless, cohesive precision.

3. As can be surmised by my rather unusual/unorthodox combination of both driver and power tubes, not only is such 'mix and match' _possible_, but they _can_ work together in absolute harmony and perfection..._no_ untoward effects whatsoever. Obviously this is aided no end by the 7581A and KT66 being of a similar 'family', and even the EL39 is a very close cousin, being akin to the EL37, which itself joins others in the 6L6 stable.

And perhaps just as important is the fact that such a combo also dispels the myth that tubes are much better _matched_ (so-called!)....come on - a 7581A and a KT66, let alone an EL39 with a KT66???!!!   And as proof I personally have never had pairs of tubes work together so faultlessly lol .

In short, I can only recommend folks to _give it a try!!_...nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Plus, don't even bother wasting time and effort - not to mention _big_ bucks - trying to chase 'reasonably' priced original/old tubes...these reissue Russian Tung Sol 7581As and Genalex Gold Lion KT66s are *so* good, it really isn't necessary IMHO! .

So I wish you all GOOD LUCK with your own tubes, and with 'mixing and matching' lol...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Good news from me too on the KT66:
> 
> Although for an unknown reason my specific (unmatched) pair of GEC KT66's are not giving clean / balanced sound in a conventional (one-tube-per-socket) setup for me - I am happy to report I am getting first-class sound out of a very unconventional setup. With my custom externally heated multi combo I paired 2x KT66 with 2x EL39 and got world class sound with tone, air, FR, etc. of _nearly _unrivaled levels. H1 was right on the KT66 + EL39 synergy, and this way the imbalance & distortion were completely gone. After some testing I finally found 2x GEC 6080 to synergize best with the former 4x as a 6x power combo, driven by 2x Valvo EL11 or EL12 Spez. The KT66 in this capacity is the sound of "love", a sound that likely has not been matched, one that I can't do without and that the mere notion of removing it seems like sacrilege.
> 
> The above was meant to illustrate the potential of the KT66 in the Euforia; although such multi-tube setup is not endorsed or specifically recommended. A better matched pair or a different brand should do quite nicely as 'conventional' powers on the Euforia. Or even Tung Sol KT66 or perhaps Genalex Gold Lion KT88 which are not too much more expensive than Gold Lion KT66. From my testing these are best suited in the 'powers' seat, as I got somewhat slow dynamics with these as drivers.



Hi DL. As I mentioned previously, there's obviously something very amiss somewhere if your KT66s do not function properly in the conventional 1-per-slot layout, and will therefore skew your results accordingly so as not be accurately indicative to other users...(please refer to my own summary of findings in my last post). I'm afraid the fact that they seem to work OK in your multi-setup does NOT alter/mediate the said anomaly, unfortunately...but does obviously help you yourself enjoy these wonderful tubes lol ....CJ


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> congrats they look lovely. I Demoed these a while ago straight out the h2 before the euforia arrived in my life and ended up with the elegia, but if it had been the other way around I think having subsequently heard them at car jam via tubes, the decision might have been reversed. Interestingly the verite closeds (look away here, I’m about to be blasphemous) are very well match with solid state amplification supplied by hugo2 and even better out of the tt2. They have such and airy wide/tall/deep stage, so much headroom and a warmish side of neutral tuning that they compensate for the only short comings of the chord DACs while allowing all their clarity, dynamics and focused precision through. This has been some forced learning while my euforia’s been away. Back on topic, my euforia has not left the uk,  because audiobarn carried out some more tests under Lukasz guidance and surprise surprise they could recreate the issue and the amp’s performed flawlessly,
> 
> Good news the euforia is okay, bad news a mains gremlin has moved into my house, effecting rooms on separate circuits, getting by my bmu and occ power cables. I’ll be collecting it on wednesday and more bad news the anniversary edition should probably be their with a days run in.........


Thanks I'm certainly enjoying them, I'd been after a closed back for a while, tried a couple, which I couldn't get on with, anyway, going on what I'd read decided to give the Atticus a try, fortunately I managed to get a used, four month old pair in as new condition, fortunately they're everything I hoped they would be, warmish, with great tone, good, deep, but not boomy bass, and compared to some closed back I've had  surprisingly airy, with decent soundstage, and despite they're warmth surprisingly lively too, especially with tube amps. As for those Verite closed, they look, and from what I've read sound to be very impressive, sadly at the mo my budget can't quite reach those but maybe one day in the not too distant future.

ps @teknorob23 I think we are all keeping our fingers crossed that you have no more trouble with your Euforia, good luck! .


----------



## Scutey (Nov 3, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> I've spent the last day burning in the Tung Sol new production 7581A's in my Elise's power position, will share initial thoughts here as this thread has been the focus of 7581A discussion. Early days, but oh my I am impressed.The primary characteristics I note are clarity, linearity and coherence. There is superb balance across the frequencies and more than sufficient speed to keep up with complex musical passages without slurring. Stage height is better than any powers I've tried, including my trusty TS 7236's, with width / depth about the same and instrument placement as good or better. The "note thickness" is just right, whereas with the 7236 things sounded a bit thin at times. Compared to my TS 5998 powers the 7581A's are a little less warm, bringing more detail but not at the expense of a pleasing musicality and euphony.
> 
> All of these comparisons are with new production Tung Sol 6SN7GTB drivers and the 7581A's seated in adapters from Deyan.
> 
> ...


Hi @LoryWiv, my GL KT66 arrive yesterday and so far very impressed, only have 14 hours on them so far, if you like the TS 7236 and 7581A then you should like the KT66, wide, deep soundstage, very detailed, great imaging, separation, and not overly warm, btw, this is using Elise.


----------



## Johnnysound (Nov 4, 2019)

..


----------



## DecentLevi

@Johnnysound you mentioned the EL12N's being vastly superior to EL34. I think that would be more of a matter of preference and especially dependent on system synergy. Did you compare the two? Of those I've only tried the EL12N and then EL34 on a separate amp but many regard the EL34 quite highly and there are many varieties


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> Hi @LoryWiv, my GL KT66 arrive yesterday and so far very impressed, only have 14 hours on them so far, if you like the TS 7236 and 7581A then you should like the KT66, wide, deep soundstage, very detailed, great imaging, separation, and not overly warm, btw, this is using Elise.



Good to know, @Scutey, thanks. Yes, I did like the 7236's stage and detailed presentation but found them a bit thin / solid state sounding. The TS 7581A's as powers also achieve good stage and detail but a bit more "note weight" and that nice touch of tube warmth without being "gooey."

Now I am wondering about KT66 as powers driven by 7581A. Have you tried this configuration or perhaps the reverse w/KT66 driving 7581A powers?


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 4, 2019)

teknorob23 said:


> congrats they look lovely. I Demoed these a while ago straight out the h2 before the euforia arrived in my life and ended up with the elegia, but if it had been the other way around I think having subsequently heard them at car jam via tubes, the decision might have been reversed. Interestingly the verite closeds (look away here, I’m about to be blasphemous) are very well match with solid state amplification supplied by hugo2 and even better out of the tt2. They have such and airy wide/tall/deep stage, so much headroom and a warmish side of neutral tuning that they compensate for the only short comings of the chord DACs while allowing all their clarity, dynamics and focused precision through. This has been some forced learning while my euforia’s been away. Back on topic, my euforia has not left the uk,  because audiobarn carried out some more tests under Lukasz guidance and surprise surprise they could recreate the issue and the amp’s performed flawlessly,
> 
> Good news the euforia is okay, bad news a mains gremlin has moved into my house, effecting rooms on separate circuits, getting by my bmu and occ power cables. I’ll be collecting it on wednesday and more bad news the anniversary edition should probably be their with a days run in.........


Hey I'm a little confused on your above post. Did you mean to say there's a shortcoming of the DAC of the Chord  Hugo 2 or Hugo TT? If so, what does it seem to be? 

I feel sorry for the recent noisy power in your house. Do you have any sort of power conditioner or at least a special isolating power cord? The longer those are, the better the effect so you can even get some improvement even without a power regenerator or 'decrapifier' LOL.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey @Liu Junyuan !! My longtime friend and one of the few female forum members here. I saw your name on the online users below. Please DO tell us about some of your recent experiences in the hobby? We don't bite if it is off topic.


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## Liu Junyuan (Nov 4, 2019)

Hey!

Yeah, I like to check up on various threads from time to time, to see what people are up to. So this will be off-topic.

I have been fairly stable with my audio chain for the last 2-3 years. I still use the ZDS as my primary amp, which drives either the Utopia, Auteur (Blackwood), or HD600. I picked up the Utopia the same year as my ZDS was built, so over three years ago, and the Auteur summer of 2018. No new buys since then, including tubes. I have other chains, which I have considered thinning, but these get the most head-time. The 339/HD600 is arguably better than the ZDS/HD600 for my preferences. But the ZDS/Utopia is my favorite chain currently. I prefer Auteur from ZDS than 339.

I have recently budged from my reluctance to purchase new gear. I ordered a solid state amp from ECP Audio, the DSHA-3F, which is optimized for the Focals and purportedly pairs even better with the Auteurs. This amp will likely complement, rather than replace, the ZDS, whose spacious and enveloping sound still enchants me. I really look forward to having an ECP amp.

It is nice, to be frank, to see people targeting a synergistic chain and staying with it for awhile. Several prolific posters here seem to have been with the Euforia or Elise for many years. It indicates a nice balance between stability and change (through constant discovery of tube options). The same could be said of the Glenn thread, too.

I hope you continue to derive enjoyment from your Feliks Audio amplifiers. And I apologize for the off-topic post.


----------



## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> Hey I'm a little confused on your above post. Did you mean to say there's a shortcoming of the DAC of the Chord  Hugo 2 or Hugo TT? If so, what does it seem to be?
> 
> I feel sorry for the recent noisy power in your house. Do you have any sort of power conditioner or at least a special isolating power cord? The longer those are, the better the effect so you can even get some improvement even without a power regenerator or 'decrapifier' LOL.



sorry i don’t think my comments re the h2 and tt2 were very clear. What I meant was they are near perfect in their price brackets, but the few weaknesses they have, and this is more referring to the h2, include for my tastes at least, slightly dry analytical amplification stage Lacking a a little in depth and width all of which are cancelled out by the performance of the verite closeds tuning and staging. Up till now the euforia has been the only antidote to these issues especially using the stellias which I really didn’t like coming straight out of the H2. The Tt2 has a similar chord house sound on the amplification front but is considerably more organic/natural sounding than the h2, it also has a larger stage in all dimensions and that’s before mentioning its improvements In detail retrieval. It really is an incredible dac/amp, even at £4K its cheap for what it does. To my ears it’s damn close to the Dave and of course is easily more powerful. I haven’t listened to the euforia with it yet but I will do and the anniversary edition too hopefully when I collect mine this week. 

on the mains front from the wall I have: shielded neotech cable > BMU > neotech cable > amp. To date I’ve not had any hum issues that weren’t tube related and I don’t think anything has changed in the house. None of the other components in my chain, streamer, dac etc are effected. Having not felt an immediate need to date, I haven’t tried a regenerator yet, but it could be a cure, an expensive one though


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## DecentLevi

Wow and with the almost supernatural performance of the Hugo 2 it's hard to imagine even more spectacular the Hugo TT 2 must sound. Definitely an external tube amp takes care of any dry or analytical sound (as I've tested too). Do you have both DAC's? When I can afford another DAC though I may be leaning towards one from Denafrips but time will tell.


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## OctavianH

If someone needs a DAC I would recomment Qutest instead of Hugo2. They have the same specs but you do not pay for the headphone amp and you can grab it at around 1000 EUR. For me it was a good upgrade from 2Qute. With the rest of the money you can take a good LPS and some decent cables. And Qutest is also compatible with M-Scaler. For a tube amp lover portability is not a concern so why to pay for a portable product...


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## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> Wow and with the almost supernatural performance of the Hugo 2 it's hard to imagine even more spectacular the Hugo TT 2 must sound. Definitely an external tube amp takes care of any dry or analytical sound (as I've tested too). Do you have both DAC's? When I can afford another DAC though I may be leaning towards one from Denafrips but time will tell.



Yes i dont want to slight the H2, as its a landmark piece of hifi as was the mark one. Ive listened to too many DACs  and i havent found anything that comes close really until you get to the TT2, apart from the Qutest, but i prefer the flexibility of H2 here as i can take it with me on work trips and the remote is useful too. I dont own the TT2, but ive been exhausting the patience of my local shop with an ongoing rolling demo, over the last few months. i dont want to take us too off topic, but just to say on initial listen the TT2 didnt blow me away as a huge improvement, largely because it has such natural organic presentation, where it almost slips in its extra performance, as if it had always been there, but then with each listen the amount of extra detail becomes more and more noticeable as does the delineation between instruments, but above anything it just sounds so, for want of better word, analogue, like the best record deck i've heard but with far better resolution. It is a big leap in investment though, and pound of pound its definitely not twice as good as the H2, but then when you compare it to the DAVE its incredibly good value. I've read a lot about the Denafrips and i'm very intrigued, but from what i read it may lean bit too much towards performance for performance sake and lose out on the musicality to the TT2. That and the fact i'll never get to hear one in the UK and of course the lack the TT2's incredible amp stage, and its transportability, probably makes the denafrips a no go for me. But if was running it purely as a DAC and looking to partner with Tubes, which could help give the terminator some soul, then perhaps it would be a different story.

The whole rather nebulous but incredibly important musicality x-factor, was why i ended up being so easy for me to choose the Euforia over the technically astonishing but to my ears anodyne Auris HA2se and would probably be the clincher here too, if the impossible happened and i had a chance to compare the two dacs.

The toughest decision comes with the fact i cant afford to have both the Euforia and the TT2 for the moment at least. I blame the VCs for enabling the choice, because if the stellia's were still in place there'd be no question, it would be the Euforia all the way!


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> If someone needs a DAC I would recomment Qutest instead of Hugo2. They have the same specs but you do not pay for the headphone amp and you can grab it at around 1000 EUR. For me it was a good upgrade from 2Qute. With the rest of the money you can take a good LPS and some decent cables. And Qutest is also compatible with M-Scaler. For a tube amp lover portability is not a concern so why to pay for a portable product...



I agree if you dont need portability, but i still find myself in a hotel rooms often enough travelling with work where its great to be able to take 75% of my home rig with me. The M Scaler will work with H2 and Qutest. Its quite a simple hack to make a decent quality adapter for the H2. All i can say just dont make my mistake and listen to the TT2 because as with the original TT it just has something over its portable junior sibling in terms of tonality sounding turntable-like in its analogue-ness (if that makes any sort sense),  that even the m-scaler cant get around.


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## OctavianH

teknorob23 said:


> All i can say just dont make my mistake and listen to the TT2 because as with the original TT it just has something over its portable junior sibling in terms of tonality sounding turntable-like in its analogue-ness (if that makes any sort sense),  that even the m-scaler cant get around.



I guess the "analogue-ness" you mention is on the buily-in HP amp, because I expect you have not listened the TT2 connected to a tube amp.


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## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> I guess the "analogue-ness" you mention is on the buily-in HP amp, because I expect you have not listened the TT2 connected to a tube amp.



not yet but i will hopefully rectify this on wednesday with both the Anniversary edition and my Euforia, so i'll let you know how that goes. I have very mixed feelings of anticipation on this front, as i know i'm probably going to be making some very hard decisions as i definitely cant afford everything on the table!


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## OctavianH

I found in advance about some Black Friday prices of a local store here in Romania, TT2 will be around 3300 EUR and the M Scaler around 2900 EUR. So maybe you will also find a good deal in UK for them. In my case Qutest is quite great, I would not buy the TT2 without the M Scaler, and the M Scaler alone... well, I am not sure about it. Looking forward to your findings. You can ask also a question related to Euforia model 2019 vs model 2018, I just found out about it a few days ago from another head-fier.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Hi @LoryWiv, my GL KT66 arrive yesterday and so far very impressed, only have 14 hours on them so far, if you like the TS 7236 and 7581A then you should like the KT66, wide, deep soundstage, very detailed, great imaging, separation, and not overly warm, btw, this is using Elise.



Hi S...glad you're liking the GL KT66s already. The pre-burn-in from Hot Rox sure seemed to help surprisingly good performance from the off! 

Anyway, with yet another 15hrs on mine (making probably over 100 total, including the pre burn-in), today finally eased my incredulity at anything being able to surpass my beloved mesh plate EL11s driving 2x EL39 powers. I've already listed most of their virtues - along with the also very impressive reissue Tung Sol 7581As - but this morning, my own particular (unusual!) combo displayed the _kind_ of sound I only recall from £19,500 worth of a Chord Blu2/Chord Dave/Focal Utopia combination at CanJam London a couple of years ago. And despite undoubted shrieks of '_nonsense'_ from some quarters, let me qualify my statement/claim by giving my _sub-conscious_ response to the sound, as opposed to a critical, analytical assessment (which would, of course, be torn to shreds lol! ). No, what I experienced was a sound so _natural_ and _unforced_...one I've never come anywhere near to in all my years of tube rolling/experimentation. But a more technical statement I shall indeed make...ie. a presentation of supreme _clarity,_ _precision_ and _balance_, without the slightest hint of being in any way _clinical_. To be honest, I wasn't expecting such a sound from a relatively modest setup, and one that has me questioning big time whether that cost of the Chord/Focal setup is at all worth that kind of money lol .

Anyway, what the experience has done (for better or worse!) is tempt me to see just what two GL KT*88s* might deliver...purely out of scientific interest, of course ...(how many times does one have to state : 'When does it end?" lol!!!). Ah well, what can one do?...Just give in to it, I suppose lol! ...CHEERS ...CJ

ps. Good luck with your own experience of these latest tubes, S...keep us updated.

pps. Hey @teknorob23 ...so the amp proved to be trouble-free elsewhere? _Not_ such good news actually, of course...now you've got the unenviable job of trying to trace just what _is_ the darned cause...and then hopefully find a remedy. I wish you the very best of luck with this, and only hope you do indeed find the culprit very soon and _destroy_ it lol!!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> Good to know, @Scutey, thanks. Yes, I did like the 7236's stage and detailed presentation but found them a bit thin / solid state sounding. The TS 7581A's as powers also achieve good stage and detail but a bit more "note weight" and that nice touch of tube warmth without being "gooey."
> 
> Now I am wondering about KT66 as powers driven by 7581A. Have you tried this configuration or perhaps the reverse w/KT66 driving 7581A powers?


I would say the KT66 is a little airier than the 7581A, but they are similar sounding, tonight I tried KT66 as powers and 7581A as drivers, I have to say they blend really well, the "note weight" you mentioned is there along with the warmth without sacrificing dynamics, need more time with this combo to say more but certainly very promising.


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...glad you're liking the GL KT66s already. The pre-burn-in from Hot Rox sure seemed to help surprisingly good performance from the off!


It certainly has h1, these tubes hit the ground running, I've only put 20 hours on mine and they sound sweet already.


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> I would say the KT66 is a little airier than the 7581A, but they are similar sounding, tonight I tried KT66 as powers and 7581A as drivers, I have to say they blend really well, the "note weight" you mentioned is there along with the warmth without sacrificing dynamics, need more time with this combo to say more but certainly very promising.


@Scutey, your report is music to  my ears (pun intended). Once my wallet recovers I definitely plan to get a pair of GL KT66's and 2 more adapters from Deyan to try them as powers driving the TS 7581A's as you describe. Not sure why but this setup appeals to me intuitively and I am really glad your initial impressions are promising. I have a major work project and "deliverable" (don't you love modern jargon) over the next 2 weeks but if all goes well and your favorable impression holds up, that purchase and tube combo. will be my reward!

Thanks very  much for sharing your impressions!


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## connieflyer

Well, CJ I think you and I are more similar than I had thought before. When I ordered the quad of KT 66,  I almost got a pair of KT 88's as well! When I hit the order button, I almost went back in and added a pair, but I thought that would give me something else to try after the KT66's are burned in.  It will take some time to run through various combos, to see what I like best.  There will be time to add KT88's to the mix later.  Don't want to miss trying different combo's before going on.  But you go right ahead, and I will catch up later!  All the best.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> It certainly has h1, these tubes hit the ground running, I've only put 20 hours on mine and they sound sweet already.



Hi S...it's very interesting how much better these KT66s sound so early on in the burn-in process. Even with probably no more than 20 hrs pre- by Hot Rox, they're way ahead of the TS 7581A at the same stage...weird! And mine continued the improvement process much faster also, with results at about 100 hrs that (once again!) that took me really by surprise (as I mentioned in more detail just previously). 

These KT tubes are indeed proving to be quite a bit different to the 7581A, even though of the same 'family'...which I suppose is to be expected really, given the _very_ different style of construction lol . As you say, the KTs have that bit more 'air', and I personally find them to be rather more 'refined' in overall FR handling/presentation. Bass is very good too, but doesn't go down _quite_ as low as the 7581A, and which is why I keep one as a driver partner to a KT (and so 2x 7581A drivers should indeed give a bit more 'meat' for you @LoryWiv ). However, as always there's a trade-off, and for me and my system I'm happy to forego a certain amount of 'oomph' from only having 1x 7581A in the mix...the 1x KT66 driver and 1x EL39/KT66 powers actually giving slightly more detail, colour and control in the bass and lower mids. Hence my recommendation to try different combinations to fine tune to one's preference and system.



connieflyer said:


> Well, CJ I think you and I are more similar than I had thought before. When I ordered the quad of KT 66,  I almost got a pair of KT 88's as well! When I hit the order button, I almost went back in and added a pair, but I thought that would give me something else to try after the KT66's are burned in.  It will take some time to run through various combos, to see what I like best.  There will be time to add KT88's to the mix later.  Don't want to miss trying different combo's before going on.  But you go right ahead, and I will catch up later!  All the best.



Yo cf...we do indeed appear to have not just very similar tastes but also _ideas_ lol! That fat KT88 has always had me wondering what on earth it was capable of, but its size scared me off big time lol!! . However, after seeing just what the (not small!) 66 can do, I feel a little less afraid now...just _curious_. So, fingers crossed...once again lol ...As usual, will keep y'all informed...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well, I am not to far from the fire. The KT88 looks to be an option. But why stop there, why not just go for the Kt150 a d end it now!!!! Seriously, sometimes it makes me wonder where it will end, with ALL the good tubes I have acquired now, really must start the process of selling off some of the stock. Keep saying that, except for all the GEC tubes, I have not done this!


----------



## barontan2418

Quick question on the EL39 tube. How many makes are there that use the silver covering at the lower third of the tube? I have 3 EL39's but no indication other than the silver as to what make they are. Thanks in anticipation.


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## ZRW0 (Nov 5, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Well, I am not to far from the fire. The KT88 looks to be an option. But why stop there, why not just go for the Kt150 a d end it now!!!! Seriously, sometimes it makes me wonder where it will end, with ALL the good tubes I have acquired now, really must start the process of selling off some of the stock. Keep saying that, except for all the GEC tubes, I have not done this!


Hi CF, hi guys,

(Yes I'm still around)

I'd not take the KT-150 route with the Euforia if I were you.
The KT-150 draws a lot of current (2A each - although some 6AS7G can even draw more) and does massive heat dissipation.
I mean *MASSIVE*. Also the tube is quite large, almost 6cm diameter at its middle height (definitely larger in diameter than 6080, 5998, 421A, ...). I'm afraid it may not let enough room between the tubes and the PS for the system to cool down properly and not to overheat.
My current amp supports such tubes (see my avatar) but I confess I was very uncomfortable on first usages because of all the heat they were (and still are) emitting.
I then found the 7581A that produces the same sound as the KT-150 on my amp, while dissipating much much less heat...

My two cents,

Erwan.


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## mordy

I have an amp that can use a pair of 6336 tubes that draw 5A each for 10A together. It can also use 4 x 2.5A tubes which I run every day. Using socket savers insulates the chassis so that the heat does not build up as much, and a small fan helps as well to keep the temperatures well within specs for the amp.
I would not worry about using a pair of 2A tubes in amp designed for 2.5A tubes as long as the amp is well ventilated.


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## connieflyer (Nov 6, 2019)

Hi Erewan  The 150s were just having a little fun, to tease CJ to just get to the end of the line to save some money!  Appreciate your findings and passing on this info.  My wife of kt66 will be here tomorrow, and just in time. As the 7581A's over 200 hours now. Back to the burn!!


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## hypnos1

ZRW0 said:


> Hi CF, hi guys,
> 
> (Yes I'm still around)
> 
> ...



Good to know you're still looking in now and then Erwan. And yes, like @connieflyer , I myself wouldn't even consider going anywhere near the KT150 lol!! And although it wouldn't be reaching anything like the usual temperatures in our (unorthodox!) application, I'm sure other factors would make it unadviseable despite @mordy 's mention of the heater current draw being even less than the 6AS7G/6080!! 

It's very interesting that you find the 7581A sounding the same as the KT150 however...especially as I personally am finding the KT66 a generally more refined, better balanced tube with even greater clarity than the 7581A lol!  But then, of course, the use of these tubes in Euforia is bound to give different results to an amp pushing them _much_ harder and with different biasing. Actually, it's a minor miracle our amps can get such results from them at all!!! 

ps. Mind you, I have noticed the occasional user of this tube family preferring other members over the KT150. So obviously  - as usual! - much will depend on the rest of one's system. All I need/want now is to see :1. If Euforia can accommodate the KT88 as seemlessly as the 7581A and KT66, and 2. If it does indeed perform 'better' than either/both lol!... as many seem to report ....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Quick question on the EL39 tube. How many makes are there that use the silver covering at the lower third of the tube? I have 3 EL39's but no indication other than the silver as to what make they are. Thanks in anticipation.



Hi bt.

It looks like the only ones to make the _silver_ banded EL39 were from the Philips stable...and I myself have only seen them come from the _French_ factories - Dario, RT or Mazda (France). And they all look equally well constructed and sound equally good, so the label - or lack of it - shouldn't really matter lol ...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 5, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hi Erewan  The 150s were just having a little fun, to tease CJ to just get to the end of the line to save some money!  Appreciate your findings and passing on this info.  My wife of kt66 will be here tomorrow, and just in time. As the 7185a's over 200 hours now. Back to the burn!!



Yo cf...fear not, I have eyes only for the KT88 lol!  And if what some folks in this KT camp say about it compared to the 66 - and if Euforia welcomes it aboard! - things could get even _more_ interesting indeed in a few days' time.... Especially as I got an unused pair of Genalex Gold Lions from the Czech republic at a good bit below the average price.

Anyway, for your eyes - and others' - *I must modify my recent comment on the KT66's bass impact compared to the 7581A*. Just like the 7581A, these KT66s are giving me the runaround - (they must have been wigging in while I made said comment lol!). With just another 9 hrs or so on them, they're giving me all the 'oomph' I could ever want...in combination with the 1x 7581A and 1x EL39. From Raymond Daveluy's Bach Toccata and Fugue to Cat Stevens's 'Tea for the Tiller Man' (both in hi-res), bass is astonishingly deep, rich and detailed...more so than I have ever heard before from my setup.

And despite fear of repetition, this is all still with a delivery of unparalleled clarity and precision...vocal enunciation has never been so crystal clear, or instruments occupying their very own space in the stage without losing cohesion and interaction. No doubt this is being aided by these same hallmark qualities of both the Naim UnitiCore server/player and Chord Hugo2 as DAC (not to mention mains conditioning and UP-OCC silver and copper wires throughout...edit...forgot the Meze Empyreans!), but at least such _qualitative_ differences should also apply to all other systems.

So, folks, I can't recommend highly enough that you have at least one reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66 driving another as power in the mix...unless you want to wait for my results with the KT88 lol!! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


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## Johnnysound (Nov 5, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yo cf...fear not, I have eyes only for the KT88 lol!  And if what some folks in this KT camp say about it compared to the 66 - and if Euforia welcomes it aboard! - things could get even _more_ interesting indeed in a few days' time.... Especially as I got an unused pair of Genalex Gold Lions from the Czech republic at a good bit below the average price.
> 
> Anyway, for your eyes - and others' - *I must modify my recent comment on the KT66's bass impact compared to the 7581A*. Just like the 7581A, these KT66s are giving me the runaround - (they must have been wigging in while I made said comment lol!). With just another 9 hrs or so on them, they're giving me all the 'oomph' I could ever want...in combination with the 1x 7581A and 1x EL39. From Raymond Daveluy's Bach Toccata and Fugue to Cat Stevens's 'Tea for the Tiller Man' (both in hi-res), bass is astonishingly deep, rich and detailed...more so than I have ever heard before from my setup.
> 
> ...



Hi Colin, I’ll wait for your results with the KT88s, and keep on waiting until you arrive to the KT150s !! (Lol) I have a quartet of those awesome tubes, and reviews say generally that they are an “evolution”  of the KT88s/KT120s with the same overall sonic signature, and not only more powerful but with improved resolution, detail and bass rendition over its predecessors.  As pentodes in my PA they were impressively BIG sounding, highly detailed top to bottom, and the bass was...well, room shaking to say the least.   However, at the time I was using the Genalex Gold Lion KT77s ( an EL34 variant) and much preferred their sweet, airy, organic sound and beautiful bass over the high res but somewhat “dry” sounding KT150s in comparative terms.  In truth, I only used the 150s  a couple of hours without allowing for proper burn-in.  In triode mode, things might be quite different, but by your comments around the GL KT66s, you are describing almost exactly the kind of sound of the GL KT77s...I guess the “house sound” of the Gold Lions.

And since tube rolling with Euforia is now entering into “new production”, relatively high power pentodes (like the 7581A) with good results, I think that Euforia has shown to have enough juice to properly drive these tubes in triode mode, and probably will do with the “big boys” of the KT family up to the 150s.  Again, tubes sound different as pentodes compared to triode mode, but their basic sound characteristics are there...still, only experimentation will tell how they perform in Euforia...BTW, adaptors are coming for the 7581A, and it looks like they accept KT66s and even KT88s and KT150s (??)  please confirm, before I blow my Euforia into pieces...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Colin, I’ll wait for your results with the KT88s, and keep on waiting until you arrive to the KT150s !! (Lol) I have a quartet of those awesome tubes, and reviews say generally that they are an “evolution”  of the KT88s/KT120s with the same overall sonic signature, and not only more powerful but with improved resolution, detail and bass rendition over its predecessors.  As pentodes in my PA they were impressively BIG sounding, highly detailed top to bottom, and the bass was...well, room shaking to say the least.   However, at the time I was using the Genalex Gold Lion KT77s ( an EL34 variant) and much preferred their sweet, airy, organic sound and beautiful bass over the high res but somewhat “dry” sounding KT150s in comparative terms.  In truth, I only used the 150s  a couple of hours without allowing for proper burn-in.  In triode mode, things might be quite different, but by your comments around the GL KT66s, you are describing almost exactly the kind of sound of the GL KT77s...I guess the “house sound” of the Gold Lions.
> 
> And since tube rolling with Euforia is now entering into “new production”, relatively high power pentodes (like the 7581A) with good results, I think that Euforia has shown to have enough juice to properly drive these tubes in triode mode, and probably will do with the “big boys” of the KT family up to the 150s.  Again, tubes sound different as pentodes compared to triode mode, but their basic sound characteristics are there...still, only experimentation will tell how they perform in Euforia...BTW, adaptors are coming for the 7581A, and it looks like they accept KT66s and even KT88s and KT150s (??)  please confirm, before I blow my Euforia into pieces...



Hi J...nice to get different folks' findings re. these KT tubes. Interesting also that you mention how I find the KT66 in my setup sounding similar to the KT77 (which some KT users seem to like most of all lol!). And so, once again, it obviously comes down to different setups/ears/preferences. Much will depend upon if I notice much difference between the 66 and 88 as to whether I give in to total insanity and try a pair of KT150s after all...I _do_ like that candle shape...er, uh oh, just looked at the price of 'em...*no way*, I'm afraid!!! 

And yes J, all these KT tubes have the same pinout, so theoretically the 7581A adapter should suit! It's only the EL34 that differs by _not_ having g3 connected to the cathode internally...

And finally I must say I'm fast coming to the conclusion that IMHO this KT tube family is right up there with the very best...not too far off the fabled 2A3/300b/45 perhaps? And certainly a good step or 2 above _any_ 6**7/6AS7G/6080 et al ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Looked at the price on amazon, $89 US, was not real good, but doable if warranted.  But the capabilities of producing that much power is beyond what I need or want for the headphone amp,  so will, at most go with the KT88's if I do not like the KT66's enough.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Looked at the price on amazon, $89 US, was not real good, but doable if warranted.  But the capabilities of producing that much power is beyond what I need or want for the headphone amp,  so will, at most go with the KT88's if I do not like the KT66's enough.



Yo cf...time will indeed tell lol . But given the superlative performance I'm now getting from the KT66 - as both driver _and _power, I'm even more eager for those 88s to get here!! ...( but will still keep my eyes open for a 'reasonably' priced pair of 150s!). On a related note, it's very interesting that I haven't yet seen a single _used_ reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66 for sale...or other (Russian) reissue KT actually...or reissue TS 7581A. Speaks loud volumes to me anyway lol! ...CJ

ps. That KT150 does indeed seem _way_ OTT in its spec for our purposes/amps...but it sure _looks_ nice!!


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## connieflyer

You got the quad of KT66 in matched, 24 hour burn in, and they are sounding excellent.  Can tell they won't need anywhere near the 7581 tubes. First song was Hi Rez 2Cellos and the deep sonorous sound of the the cello's was rich and full. Vocals are good as well, about where the 7185's were at 100  hours.  Bass is a little richer, and overall tone is warmer and more body than the 7581's. Holst's Jupiter is vibrant and stage is wide and rich.  Moving on to RImsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade op35, bassoon just the right depth to it, flute and harp played together like they had been married forever. Violins came in and music swelled to a cresendo felt like a live presentation! Instrument separation and location is the best I have heard on this amp. Even the tiny part that the triangle has was clear and immediate.  It was not played in the foreground, but was clearly there where it should have been.  Dianna Krall I'll see you in my dreams, piano, guitar and violin, not to mention her voice was as close to a live presentation as I have heard with the Euforia.  Anyone looking for a quad of 7581a's with 200 hour+ burnin will sell for what I paid for them plus shipping


----------



## connieflyer

Well CJ, I am convinced these KT66's hit all the bases (not withstanding your results with the KT88) these 66's are going to be my main tubes, so will sell my TS 7581a's as with this quad, not even burned in all the way I know I won't be going back to other tubes now. Not to say if the KT88's sound even better to you that I would not buy a pair of them! The TS 7581a's sound really great, I am impressed with them but I like the sound of these better.  Each to his own. When are your KT88's coming in?  When you get the chance run them in as powers and the KT66 as drivers once for me, would be interested in the difference.   Hope all is well


----------



## connieflyer

Forgot to add photos, getting old....


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## connieflyer

Have you tried the 6L6's yet?  I thought you had purchase some of those as well.  The KT150 is a beautiful tube, always wanted to use it, but in the Euforia I think it will be overkill, not to mention getting pricey.  I admit to looking at this  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...42e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=VRHK65F0PBS2EVC7XAZG  . MUZISHARE X10 Class A Sinle-Ended 300B KT150 Tube Integrated Amplifier/Power Amplifier/Phono Amp    uses a pair of them.  Just under $3000, don't know where I would put it, but that never stopped my yet!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> You got the quad of KT66 in matched, 24 hour burn in, and they are sounding excellent.  Can tell they won't need anywhere near the 7581 tubes. First song was Hi Rez 2Cellos and the deep sonorous sound of the the cello's was rich and full. Vocals are good as well, about where the 7185's were at 100  hours.  Bass is a little richer, and overall tone is warmer and more body than the 7581's. Holst's Jupiter is vibrant and stage is wide and rich.  Moving on to RImsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade op35, bassoon just the right depth to it, flute and harp played together like they had been married forever. Violins came in and music swelled to a cresendo felt like a live presentation! Instrument separation and location is the best I have heard on this amp. Even the tiny part that the triangle has was clear and immediate.  It was not played in the foreground, but was clearly there where it should have been.  Dianna Krall I'll see you in my dreams, piano, guitar and violin, not to mention her voice was as close to a live presentation as I have heard with the Euforia.  Anyone looking for a quad of 7581a's with 200 hour+ burnin will sell for what I paid for them plus shipping





connieflyer said:


> Well CJ, I am convinced these KT66's hit all the bases (not withstanding your results with the KT88) these 66's are going to be my main tubes, so will sell my TS 7581a's as with this quad, not even burned in all the way I know I won't be going back to other tubes now. Not to say if the KT88's sound even better to you that I would not buy a pair of them! The TS 7581a's sound really great, I am impressed with them but I like the sound of these better.  Each to his own. When are your KT88's coming in?  When you get the chance run them in as powers and the KT66 as drivers once for me, would be interested in the difference.   Hope all is well





connieflyer said:


> Forgot to add photos, getting old....



Well cf, what can I say? I don't think I've ever seen you - or anyone else (including _me!_) be so enthusiastic about a (new) tube so early in proceedings lol!! ...Good on you!! ...And they get a good bit better yet, mon ami...well into the 100+ hour mark .

But I must admit that with hindsight, I now realise I was being _over_ cautious with my preliminary findings...probably because I simply couldn't believe how good they sounded straight from the off. And now that they're giving me what I thought may be needed from the 7581A, I'm suspecting also that my extremely good TS 7581A will have to make way for the third KT66 that arrived today!! How can the KT88 be even better lol?...(but many say it _is!_...in other amps, mind you...).

And my 88s should hopefully be arriving in the next few days...but from the look of your 2x 66 drivers, there may well not be enough room for the much fatter 88s to fit there!!!  Never mind, the logical place for them is as powers anyway, so not too worried! I suspect you're now as eager as I am (and @Johnnysound ) to see just how the 66 and 88 compare..._hurry up postie!!!
_
Anyway D, your photo of the KT66 quad looks ravishing...WELL DONE!...(and aren't those Gold Lions absolutely gorgeous?). Mind you, I reckon with 88s in place, we wouldn't see Euforia at all! ...but we shall see...CJ


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## connieflyer (Nov 6, 2019)

With the KT88's amp will just about disappear, oh well it is about the sound anyways.  I just checked behind the KT66, still have about a 1/2 inch or so, no problem for the KT 88 (hopefully) wonder how much heat they will put out. I have to admit, my excitement for these so early on is quite nice.  The TS 7581a's were really good after 200 hours burn in and was quite happy this afternoon with them.A very musical presentation, but after these KT66 arrived, and they sound this good with only 24-28 hours on them,  I am sure this is going to be it.  Of course, investing in a pair of KT150, just in case I have to upgrade the amp at some time, would save me money in the future!  And of course once your adapters get here that will probably to best this will do (baring the KT88 of course!).


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Have you tried the 6L6's yet?  I thought you had purchase some of those as well.  The KT150 is a beautiful tube, always wanted to use it, but in the Euforia I think it will be overkill, not to mention getting pricey.  I admit to looking at this  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...42e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=VRHK65F0PBS2EVC7XAZG  . MUZISHARE X10 Class A Sinle-Ended 300B KT150 Tube Integrated Amplifier/Power Amplifier/Phono Amp    uses a pair of them.  Just under $3000, don't know where I would put it, but that never stopped my yet!



No 6L6s cf...and don't tempt me lol! I'm _more  _than happy with the GL KT66s - _at the moment!!_  And given the number of folks who seem to prefer the reissue TS 7581A over most others of the 6L6 family (bar the KTs), I'm quite happy to give any testing of them a miss thank you lol ...

ps. That amp looks incredible for under $3000...even with sales tax/VAT added on. Could only come from China! And might just be tempted, if I were able to use my speakers a lot more. However, seeing just how good these KTs are sounding as _drivers_ also in our amps, I don't think I'd want to be using anything else now...(there, I've talked myself out of it!! ).


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## connieflyer

22 watts output from tubes should sound pretty good.  Oh don't get me started.  Don't need another speaker amp.  If I sell the house and move to an apartment or condo, won't be able to unleash the beast like I do now!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> 22 watts output from tubes should sound pretty good.  Oh don't get me started.  Don't need another speaker amp.  If I sell the house and move to an apartment or condo, won't be able to unleash the beast like I do now!



That sure is plenty of power for a tube amp, as you say cf. But one would indeed need _extremely_ forgiving neighbours if not in a detached residence lol!! Better to stick to the cans as a future-proof option methinks ...Cheers and BFN...CJ


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## connieflyer

NIght all


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## DecentLevi

Here is an outstanding looking deal in case anyone's interested in EL39 and Valvo-like EL11 tubes:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/teknorob/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


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## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> Here is an outstanding looking deal in case anyone's interested in EL39 and Valvo-like EL11 tubes:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/teknorob/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=



busted, looks extortionate to me


----------



## Marutks

How does Euphoria amp sound with ZMF Verite?   better than solid state?


----------



## teknorob23

Marutks said:


> How does Euphoria amp sound with ZMF Verite?   better than solid state?



Different but equally good, whereas i really didn’t like my stellia’s straight out of the hugo2 and they sounded great out of the euforia.


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## DecentLevi

teknorob23 said:


> busted, looks extortionate to me


Oh wow, I didn't realize those are your listings. I guess that wasn't meant for you then, HaHa. For some reason the above link only works in some browsers but not others. Also how did you like those Philips Miniwatt EL11 (as drivers)? The shape looks like the Valvo and Tungsram EL11 which to me are perhaps impossible to dethrone.


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## DecentLevi (Nov 7, 2019)

Hypnos1 here was your post from May 27 last year:

"Hi again folks.

I know I've been hogging things lately re. the CV1052/EL32/VT57 tube (sorry!), but after yet another couple hours' rest (almost as important as use time for NOS tubes) and then a few more hours' burn-in, the soundstage I heard this morning wasn't due to early waking state after all...listening now to one of my favourite test tracks - Loreena McKennitt's 'The Gates of Istanbul' - I have *never, ever* heard a soundstage like it. Along with even _more_ detail and separation_ - _again, that I haven't heard before - using 2x CV1052 as powers, driven by 2 of the same is proving even *better* than EL12 Spezials.

Needless to say, I'm in total disbelief at the moment...but this is being confirmed with each track of her 'An Ancient Muse' assailing (nay, _caressing!_) my ears...and this is at volume levels I would previously have listened, not even a higher one.

These tubes obviously have tremendous 'synergy', and perform in our amps to a level undreamt of, even if not configured for. My system has *never* sounded this good...and is _way _beyond stock configuration IMHO.

BFN...a gobsmacked CJ  "

_borrowing a photo from @SnapperMusicFan _



OK let's go for the EL32 and those blasted huge tubes are not recommended - or more like leagues of tubes that came before in our amps are becoming jealous HaHa . Just 1 year later and we've already seen EL32 bested by EL38 (tossup there), bested by EL39, bested by 7581A, bested by KT66 and possibly slain to be outdone by EL34 / KT77 (if an adapter is made), KT88, KT120 or KT150. And look at how far we've come since way back in 2014 or 2015 starting with 6AS7 / 6H13C, 6080, then EL3N, ECC31, EL12 variants, etc. - not even mentioning dozens of driver tube classes. It's been quite an adventurous and head-spinning ride, but for me with a new amp lurking and huge inventory already I can comfortably sit back and watch how this new KT era plays out. I am indeed enjoying an unconventional setup of GEC KT66 with eyes on the Marconi smoked glass KT66 for now anyway.


----------



## teknorob23

DecentLevi said:


> Oh wow, I didn't realize those are your listings. I guess that wasn't meant for you then, HaHa. For some reason the above link only works in some browsers but not others. Also how did you like those Philips Miniwatt EL11 (as drivers)? The shape looks like the Valvo and Tungsram EL11 which to me are perhaps impossible to dethrone.



Yes I’m having a bit of clear out to help pay for an accident I had at audiobarn yesterday involving my credit card and this...


----------



## OctavianH

@teknorob23  I DO hope you plan to post more about this than just 2 pictures.


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## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23  I DO hope you plan to post more about this than just 2 pictures.


Agreed, although handsome pictures they are.


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> Agreed, although handsome pictures they are.



Apart from being a dust magnet. Anyway the sound matters, not the looks.


----------



## teknorob23

OctavianH said:


> @teknorob23  I DO hope you plan to post more about this than just 2 pictures.



Yes sorry I didn’t mean to tantalise but I have to get the kids ready for school, then I’ll have some time hopefully on the train in to london after that. But full disclosure i went to the shop in order to collect my noise free amp, with the partial intent regarding the tt2. Jack the owner had asked if mind taking some pics, but because the anniversary edition had only arrived in the morning I hadn’t planned to demo it with my mind already pretty fixed on the new dac. Needless to say i couldn’t resist, so in lieu of the longer story with a few cursory impressions to follow this morning, I ended up ordering after a 30 minute listen. 12 hours later and still no sign of any buyers remorse. Apologies i have to go but I’ll be back with more shortly.


----------



## teknorob23

Oh and here are few more pics in the meantime, which don’t do the metallic paint job justice the light wasn’t great.


----------



## LoryWiv

Really nice photos, thanks @teknorob23. Are those the stock feet on the Euphoira Anniv. Ed. or did you install aftermarket?


----------



## Scutey

teknorob23 said:


> Oh and here are few more pics in the meantime, which don’t do the metallic paint job justice the light wasn’t great.


Very nice!, but you're also being a tease!


----------



## connieflyer

Those look like the stock feet.  A little tube fire this morning


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Those look like the stock feet.  A little tube fire this morning


Nice pic!, those KT66 are certainly photogenic.


----------



## OctavianH

My 4 pieces of Tung Sol 7581A arrived and I observed I have 3 x 17 12 and 1 x 18 01 (so 1 month distance). What date codes are the ones you are using?






These are not matched nor burned in, they are brand new and I will look at them until the adapters arrive. I'll receive also 2 x Genalex KT66 tomorrow or latest on Monday when I hope also the adapters will be in my possession.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> My 4 pieces of Tung Sol 7581A arrived and I observed I have 3 x 17 12 and 1 x 18 01 (so 1 month distance). What date codes are the ones you are using?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear you've got them, my 4 are all 19 01.


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## Scutey

We are quite lucky here in the UK, the main distributor of these and other tubes here, Hot Rox will match pairs and quads.


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## OctavianH

I do not think it will be a problem, they have same month / year (at least the 2 I will try with 2xKT66 as powers). They had something written on the website that for additional cost you can call them and maybe they will be able to provide you pairs/quads. I said OK, no more money for this.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I do not think it will be a problem, they have same month / year (at least the 2 I will try with 2xKT66 as powers). They had something written on the website that for additional cost you can call them and maybe they will be able to provide you pairs/quads. I said OK, no more money for this.



18/09 my four, OH...and no, shouldn't be any problem at all...too much is made of this 'matching' and 'cryo treatment' IMHO - the former especially proved by my combination of 3 different (type!) tubes, with no negative effects whatsoever...perfect synergy in fact lol! 

And between the 7581As and KT66s, if these don't give you your heart's desire, _I give up!!!_ ...(mind you, I've yet to see what the KT88s bring to the table! )...CHEERS!...and GOOD LUCK!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Well well @teknorob23 ...you certainly had _me_ wrong-footed lol! I could have sworn you'd been hopelessly tempted by the Chord TT2...never dreamt it would be the Anniversary Edition Euforia!! Is it really that much better than the original? Can't wait for your in-depth impressions/comparison....

One thing though, R...from your first photo, I was a little dismayed by the 'dimpled' appearance of the paintwork...was it just a trick of the light?...do hope so!  Mind you, as OH said, it's the _sound_ that counts......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Those look like the stock feet.  A little tube fire this morning



Yo cf...nice to have some glow back as well lol!  All we need now is to get some of that gorgeous _blue_ from the KT88s . But short of hitting those giant plates with masses more Volts, I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen alas!  However, I do hope we at least have that eerie blue (faint) glow - in the dark! - that the 7581A tries so hard to give...

ps. Looks like the boat that comes from the Czech Republic could possibly be the same one that comes from China, given their estimated delivery time schedule lol!!! So we both might just have to temper our excitement somewhat I'm afraid...(but I want them *now!* )...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I know what you mean about waiting for the boat to come in! It makes you wonder sometimes when it's supposed to be in east west transfer if whatever boat it's on doesn't go west 2 East Via north-south back to East and then West before it finally gets to where it needs to go! Getting kind of excited about what you'll find with the kt88, not that I need to buy another pair of tubes but well why not


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Yo cf...nice to have some glow back as well lol!  All we need now is to get some of that gorgeous _blue_ from the KT88s . But short of hitting those giant plates with masses more Volts, I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen alas!  However, I do hope we at least have that eerie blue (faint) glow - in the dark! - that the 7581A tries so hard to give...
> 
> ps. Looks like the boat that comes from the Czech Republic could possibly be the same one that comes from China, given their estimated delivery time schedule lol!!! So we both might just have to temper our excitement somewhat I'm afraid...(but I want them *now!* )...CJ


Perhaps a silly question, but is there merit to trying the Genalex Gold Lion KT77 in our amps rather than jumping from KT66 to KT88?


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## DecentLevi (Nov 8, 2019)

@LoryWiv I don't see why there's no merit there, KT77 is a type of EL34 which has many variants and is widely acclaimed. Be the first! Except as I read here recently I believe you would need an EL34 to 6AS7 adapter, which seems to not exist yet.


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> @LoryWiv I don't see why there's no merit there, KT77 is a type of EL34 which has many variants and is widely acclaimed. Be the first! Except as I read here recently I believe you would need an EL34 to 6AS7 adapter, which seems to not exist yet.


@DecentLevi I may just fo that, I know they are well-regarded and suspect Deyan could make good quality adapters. I probably will try GL KT66's or KT88's as powers driven by TS 7581A's first though as that combination intrigues me.

Do the 7581A adapters also work correctly for the KT66 and / or KT88 in Elise / Euforia?


----------



## DecentLevi

Yes the 7581A adapters work for all 6L6 tubes which also includes KT66, KT88 and if I'm not mistaken KT120 and KT150 (but would need confirmation on those 2).

PS here was pieces of my childhood audio journey:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2272#post-15294813


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## LoryWiv (Nov 8, 2019)

DL, those childhood pictures tell a tale of  happy, musical good times which I hope serves you well to this day! I can still remember the soul-stirring, joyful awakening I had when first hearing Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" and Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" on my family's old Fisher Tube amp. playing through in wall speakers common in the 1960's. Listening to Igor Kipnis' "Holiday for harpsichord" through that setup helped establish my love of keyboard and classical music. Powerful memories, and after many years of a solid state detour I am really enjoying tube sound again. Full circle in a sense.


----------



## DecentLevi

LoryWiv said:


> DL, those childhood pictures tell a tale of  happy, musical good times which I hope serves you well to this day! I can still remember the soul-stirring, joyful awakening I had when first hearing Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" and Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" on my family's old Fisher Tube amp. playing through in wall speakers common in the 1960's. Listening to Igor Kipnis' "Holiday for harpsichord" through that setup helped establish my love of keyboard and classical music. Powerful memories, and after many years of a solid state detour I am really enjoying tube sound again. Full circle in a sense.


I was a singular special needs child who didn't fit in anywhere. My various equipment lead me to do found sound recordings at an early age and later tape manipulation, beat-mixing at home and I even created my own experimental variety audio show, which to my ultimate sadness a 1/2 decade effort had been stolen before it could see the light of day. Listening was also my happiest moments.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 8, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Perhaps a silly question, but is there merit to trying the Genalex Gold Lion KT77 in our amps rather than jumping from KT66 to KT88?



Hi there LW.

Not a silly question...from what I've gleaned from users of the 6L6/KT families, the KT77 seems much liked. But there seems also to be _more_ love for the KT88...personal preference reigns supreme here, apparently!  And so it will in our own amps, to be sure.... Plus, I personally prefer the look of these lovely FAT 66s and 88s lol!! 

By the way, I'm afraid DL gave you some wrong information about the KT77...it does *not *have the same pinout as the EL34 (no-one has said it did here before). ALL the KT family do in fact have the same pin layout, but different heater current requirements...the KT66 - 1.27A; the KT77 - 1.4A; the KT88 - 1.6A. And so the 7581A adapter will suit all these tubes lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. With the KT88 designed for different (higher) plate dissipation, and with less plate resistance than the 77, it'll be very interesting to see just what Euforia makes of it!!


----------



## hypnos1

OK folks...just a quickie re. the KT66 as driver to the same as power. 

Although I was very impressed with how one of mine partnered a TS 7581A in the drivers' seat, I have to agree with @connieflyer ...now, with only a handful of hours on top of the probable 20 or so pre-burn-in from Hot Rox UK of my second as driver, already the sound is even more impressive...specifics later after further burn-in.

Just how much further can Euforia go lol?!! Who would ever have thought that such performance could come from tubes so much different to stock configuration? I can now safely say that ALL previous tubes must bow to these KTs, with the possible exception of the EL39. But I suspect even the latter has now met its match (in _our_ amps)...shan't know myself for sure until the KT88s arrive. Then it'll be *game on!!*...IMHO a crowning glory after years of progressing through a myriad of experimental tubes in Elise and Euforia, and lastly owed to @ZRW0 's suggestion to try the 7581A...heartfelt thanks yet again, Erwan......Sante...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hi CJ glad to hear you tried a quad of the kt66 and are finding them so good. I am very happy having gone to a quad of these it just made sense to me at the time I haven't even tried anything else with them yet burning is probably around 50-60 hours so far so I don't want to throw another tube in there I want to keep all of the tubes burning with the same amount of time in them at least till I get to a hundred hours but even then I'm going to wait and see how the kt88 sounds. If you think it sounds better I guess I'll just have to buy a pair and see for myself! But after that this is got to stop. I may have to put a room addition on the house just to have room for tube storage at this rate. Time to sell off all the extras!


----------



## teknorob23

First off sorry for leaving you all hanging and i apologise in advance because of the brief-ness and potential inaccuracy of the impressions that follow.

As @hypnos1 rightly surmised, i had travelled to the Audiobarn expecting 3 things: One to collect my, now ex-euforia (as now being listened in its new home), Two, audition and probably buy the TT2 and three maybe get to photograph and maybe listen to the Anniversary Edition, if it had arrived.  So unfortunately for the purposes of you all, i spent most of the 3 hours i was there listening to and comparing the the H2 directly with the TT2, as well as comparing both via my Euforia , using EL39/EL11 combo as i know their sound best. I was pretty much set on returning to an admittedly amazing solid state safety blanket with the TT2, but i had my camera with me as was on my way to work and I said i take a few pics for Audiobarn to share on their social channels, so i did that and even though the Anniversary edition was just out the box, i thought what the hell i'll have quick listen with my tubes, the Verite closeds and Hugo2 .... So bearing all of this in mind this i what i heard:

I dont really know why,  but hello Mr Magpie from King Of Limbs by Radiohead, is always the first tune i play on something new and i was Instantly hit by the width and height of the soundstage, then the controlled dynamics of what can become an overblown bassline and above all a beautiful clarity that just gave me a bit of slap around the chops. And now if i'm 100% honest it was at this point, probably less than 3 minutes of listening to a completely un-run-in amplifier, that i decided to place my order, so everything that follows could be completely clouded by confirmation bias. Its also worth noting i'd spent 2 hours listening to one of the best DACs in the world, which i now havent thought about for moment since.

I did listen for about another 20-30 minutes, mainly too electronica, like John Hopkins/ singularity, raven by gogo penguin, Utility by Barker, Crush the new Floating Points album (which i'm completely in love with), then some early Joy Divsion, My Bloody Valentine and a little bit of Miles Davis.  It's definitely a Euforia as lots of the things that made me fall for the mk2 in the first place are there, the depth of stage, layering, clarity, liquid mids, and its soulful big bodied musicality, but even its fresh-out-of-the-box state, i could hear improvements in most of these areas as well as the addition of some things new like the stage height and width. It wasn't quite as drastic as when i moved from the Elise to demo the Euforia the first time around, where every area of performance just seemed big better and in larger quantity, but it was enough of this to immediately convince me this is another special bit of hifi that has moved the performance on enough to warrant buying it. I know it was cold, and no the bass didnt sound as free or as fluid as it likely will do with 100hrs of play. The same could be said for the top end extension, but the core elements of the presentation which i'm sure wont change other than to improve are there, and are enough of an improvement to convince me. I'm sorry i cant give a more detailed impression of the sound or the comparison between the two, but i heard enough to be convinced the Anniversary Edition, takes Euforia magic and adds to it significantly and definitely significantly enough upgrade for me pay what equates to £650 upgrade fee after selling the old one.

Re, the finish, the pics dont really do it justice as it it is to my eyes a very dark grey with multi-coloured metallic flacks (probably more blue then any other colour), which show in different amounts depending on both the angle of light and the angle from which its viewed. I can see the blemishes in that one pic too, but i looked pretty close and couldnt see any in the flesh, but the combination of thick coating of metallic paint and highly reflective finish could fool the camera lens as well as the viewer. This perhaps is most noticeable when you zoom in on the headphone socket, which looked perfect if slightly recessed in the metal, but which looks to be a ridge in the paint according to some of the photos. You can also make out what looks like a blemish on the right-hand side of the facia above the 2 in the "20th". I have to say i didnt see this at the time and its not obvious in any other of the pictures, so its probably and optical illusion created by light reflected on a metallic flec and confusing the camera. Ive spent a lot ot my working life filming/ photographing cars and ive seen some fairly strange effects created entirely by the camera vs object vs light.  Oh and the feet are standard, but if anyone has any other specific questions please fire away and i'll do my best to answer. That or if you live within driving distance of Harlow (southern england), it's definitely worth the trip for listen and Jack at Audiobarn has to be one of the most knowledgable and accommodating chaps to deal with, so you'll be good/patient hands should you decide to to do so.

Unfortunately for (poor, poor  ) Audiobarn sold the 3 amps they had advanced ordered to customers on spec, so i'll have 3-4 week wait, looking at these two and their little 66 brothers, which i had been expecting to be burning in on my old euforia while spending the weekend playing hunt the mains noise! 

Finally apologies again for the lack anything more substantial on the impressions front, i'll try to do better in months time


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 8, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ glad to hear you tried a quad of the kt66 and are finding them so good. I am very happy having gone to a quad of these it just made sense to me at the time I haven't even tried anything else with them yet burning is probably around 50-60 hours so far so I don't want to throw another tube in there I want to keep all of the tubes burning with the same amount of time in them at least till I get to a hundred hours but even then I'm going to wait and see how the kt88 sounds. If you think it sounds better I guess I'll just have to buy a pair and see for myself! But after that this is got to stop. I may have to put a room addition on the house just to have room for tube storage at this rate. Time to sell off all the extras!



Yo cf...must admit I was quite surprised at the extra performance from my (at the moment) 2x KT66 drivers to 1x EL39/1x KT66 powers over and above the 7581A...no mean feat lol!  And so at this juncture I must apologise to folks who went for the 7581A before discovering the KT66's virtues. But in my defence, I never dreamt our amps would/could have these tubes performing to such an amazing level!! ...



teknorob23 said:


> First off sorry for leaving you all hanging and i apologise in advance because of the brief-ness and potential inaccuracy of the impressions that follow.
> 
> As @hypnos1 rightly surmised, i had travelled to the Audiobarn expecting 3 things: One to collect my, now ex-euforia (as now being listened in its new home), Two, audition and probably buy the TT2 and three maybe get to photograph and maybe listen to the Anniversary Edition, if it had arrived.  So unfortunately for the purposes of you all, i spent most of the 3 hours i was there listening to and comparing the the H2 directly with the TT2, as well as comparing both via my Euforia , using EL39/EL11 combo as i know their sound best. I was pretty much set on returning to an admittedly amazing solid state safety blanket with the TT2, but i had my camera with me as was on my way to work and I said i take a few pics for Audiobarn to share on their social channels, so i did that and even though the Anniversary edition was just out the box, i thought what the hell i'll have quick listen with my tubes, the Verite closeds and Hugo2 .... So bearing all of this in mind this i what i heard:
> 
> ...



Thanks for more background to your adventures tr...no need to apologise, given the circumstances lol . And thanks for the info on that paint job...would have been surprised at F-A settling for such a finish, if dimpled.

So, you were indeed impressed by the difference/improvement in sound over the original, R...those upgraded components certainly do seem to have done their job well, along with the use of UP-OCC copper wire in the signal line...(can only guess at what the addition of OCC silver wire might do lol! ). That's encouraging news, to be sure.

Mind you, the improvements you mentioned sound exactly like the ones now delivered by the Genalex Gold Lion KT66s!!..ie. right across the board : bass response; tonal range; clarity; smoothness; refinement; enhanced soundstage etc. etc.!!. But, of course, presumably these tubes will take the SE amp to even greater heights?  Can't wait for your eventual findings tr...

ps. How dare you have those KT88s before me, mon ami?...not fair!  And now I've seen them in your lovely photo, I'm even _more_ impatient for mine to get here!! ...but I don't envy your even longer wait for your amp so you can see just what these beauties can do, R...

ps. I do hope you either manage to trace and cure that gremlin in your home, or that the extra power supply treatment in the Anniversary Edition can perhaps do the honours...very best wishes lol...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Nov 8, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi there LW.
> 
> Not a silly question...from what I've gleaned from users of the 6L6/KT families, the KT77 seems much liked. But there seems also to be _more_ love for the KT88...personal preference reigns supreme here, apparently!  And so it will in our own amps, to be sure.... Plus, I personally prefer the look of these lovely FAT 66s and 88s lol!!
> 
> ...


It may have been on another thread I read that KT77 and EL34 being compatible, but a query online does list several sites that say KT77 and EL34 are interchangeable - notwithstanding whether or not they have the same pinout, which is not what I said. So as far as KT77 it does seem to be compatible with our 7581A adapters, however it may be the EL34 that needs an adapter. I was just stating what "_I believed_" to be true rather than fact, so further clarification is needed.

PS - @teknorob23 big congratulations on your Euforia A.E.! It's too bad you couldn't take the one home from their shop.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 8, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> It may have been on another thread I read that KT77 and EL34 being compatible, but a query online does list several sites that say KT77 and EL34 are interchangeable - notwithstanding whether or not they have the same pinout, which is not what I said. So as far as KT77 it does seem to be compatible with our 7581A adapters, however it may be the EL34 that needs an adapter. I was just stating what "_I believed_" to be true rather than fact, so further clarification is needed.



DL...will you please gain _all_ relevant facts before giving folks misleading advice...which I have in fact had to ask you to do several times in the past.

In this particular instance, you stated to LW that, and I quote : "Except_ as I read hear recently _I believe you would need an EL34 to 6AS7 adapter, which seems to not exist yet".
This has not in fact been "stated here recently", and would of course indeed imply that the pin layout of the KT77 must therefore be different to the 7581A, and it is not. With fuller understanding of quotes on other "several sites", and of these particular tubes, one would realise that such info related to power amps that were wired such as to be _able to take both, _unlike the 7581A adapter. This kind of 'misunderstanding' is what can lead to possible (big) problems - even if not so dangerous in this instance - and demands great care before putting in print...again, as I have asked of you before now, for the sake of those new to this hobby.

This time DL, please have the humility to accept you made a mistake, with no further prevarication.


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## DecentLevi (Nov 8, 2019)

Yup so now I see now it was a misunderstanding or error, that while like other amps the KT77 is compatible with the KT66 slot, the EL34 is excluded due to the special circuit used in the 7581A adapter of our amp. Confusing indeed, but It seems to be clear now.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 9, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Yup so now I see now it was a misunderstanding or error, that while like other amps the KT77 is compatible with the KT66 slot, the EL34 is excluded due to the special circuit used in the 7581A adapter of our amp. Confusing indeed, but It seems to be clear now.



Hi DL...Well, you're _almost  _there, but it gets even more complicated/confusing still lol!

It's not just that the EL34 pin layout is different to that in the 7581A as we (and others) use it, but it's also different to all the KT family of tubes in that its grid#3 isn't linked internally with the cathode, but in the KTs/7581A it is. And so an amp that wants to use the EL34 _and_ the KTs must make this link inside the amp itself. On top of that, _in power amps_, the 7581A, along with certain others in the 6L6 family has a higher rating, such that if configured for it can be pushed harder for greater output. BUT, if tubes with the _lower_ rating are used in such an amp, the plate will most likely end up glowing red, and...!! Luckily, as our amps aren't driving these tubes anywhere near max, this isn't an issue for us anyway!  However, as can be seen from the case of EL34 vs KTs, using tubes other than those specified by the manufacturer can have unexpected  consequences (and possibly drastic ones, in other instances! ).

And so, when I experiment with such alternative tubes, and then encourage others to follow suit, it demands the utmost care in research and basic detail before proceeding...both for the sake of my _own_ amp, and that of others with equal courage lol! . Fortunately, I don't think any tube I've recommended to date has given anyone too much grief....(apart from the occasional duff tube itself alas...)..I hope not, at least!!  But always on my guard must I be lol!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well said,and spot on


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## Scutey

If anybody fancies a NOS pair of GEC KT88, how about these, a snip at £1,500 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWO-BOXE...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## connieflyer

And used besides


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## DecentLevi (Nov 9, 2019)

Or how about this GEC TT21 for _only _$3,000 per tube - if you negotiate the cost down. It's a KT88 with a top cap which would need special adapter, and I presume it must do something special at these prices.



This and the above post are only the extreme examples but cheaper deals do pup up from time to time.

Meanwhile I've just found the black metal tubes RCA 6N7 / VT-96 to have SENSATIONAL synergy as drivers with KT66's as powers. Liquid mids, smooth highs, bass that's both controlled, earthshakingly strong and deep as the sea, and for a first time ever on my system it's a combination that synergises well with both my open and closed headphoens! I even tested it for you folks as a 'conventional' setup and the aforementioned system dependent issues while still present it was obvious top fidelity.


----------



## Johnnysound (Nov 9, 2019)

..


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## Johnnysound (Nov 10, 2019)

Tour of KT powers:  First, Genalex Gold Lion KT77s...already burned in 100 hours plus



To reduce variables, decided to use well known and excellent sounding Valvos EL11 as drivers



Now fasten your seat belts, please



The Tung-Sol  KT150 animals:  Extremely *fast*,  detailed, super Hi-rez, “big” sounding combo for which ultra deep bass was simply no problem at all...the deepest bass I have ever heard from Euforia.  I think the EL11s drivers offered a much needed touch of warmth, refinement, “humanity” to the sound of these real beasts...that BTW behaved very nice, politely in Euforia,  sounding much better as triodes than as pentodes.  The KT77s, on the  other hand, are really natural, kind of sweet sounding, very dynamic and musical tubes with nice bass, astounding mids & highs,  like an EL34 on steroids (which they really are).  And last but not least, I really liked the 7581As  a lot in the same slots: a wide, accurate, different kind of sound (they say 6L6 family sound) that also has a nice touch of naturalness and refinement to it.

All preliminary impressions, of course:  tried all of them as preamp tubes and in HP duties, and the KT150s proved that my modest Senn 579s were  capable of MUCH deeper and tighter bass than I ever imagined, without a hint of distortion. The frecuency extension was enormous, up and above the very limit of the cans, but undistorted, very impressive. With top cans...the sky is the limit, I guess.

I bet that KT88s will offer more or less the same sonic picture, which is super accurate, with the strongest bass ever in Euforia...but it will be very different from the 7581A, KT66 (6L6 family) or the KT77 (EL34 family), each with its own, nice sounding   signature.   KT88 belongs to a different,  proper “KT family”  of high power pentodes (along with KT 90, 120 and 150) that go for great accuracy and power more than nuance, refinement...and in an HP amp (or preamp) like Euforia there are other important sonic variables to think about.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh rats, expensive _is _better this time - this thread's getting more costly by the day but I don't think you're to blame alone, LOL.

CONGRATULATIONS on your super combo. It looks like you must be getting the utmost potential out of this wolf of an amp! Does the KT150 run very hot? Temperature measurements don't mean much to me, so as just a general idea is it getting hotter than, say, 6080 tubes? And if so by about how much? (2x more, etc.) Your bass descriptors sound amazing, but what about the top end / treble quality? And those HD-579's were my recommendation right?


----------



## DecentLevi

Also it's worth mentioning that most of these recent sensational results we've been having with the likes of KT66, 77, 150 as powers, 6N7 as drivers, etc. have been with adapters from Ms. Xuling most of which use *brass *pins and/or copper sockets (correct me if I'm wrong), which are far from the best conductor material, so these fine new discoveries could sound even better.

Brass may be badass but aint' no match for higher jazz like UP-OCC Single crystal silver.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Tour of KT powers:  First, Genalex Gold Lion KT77s...already burned in 100 hours plus
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting info there J...thanks.

It's once again evident that, as usual, so much is going to depend upon the rest of one's system as to the final results. For example, it's interesting to hear from DL that the inexpensive metal-encased 6N7 drives the KT very well, and that you found the 7581A so good in your own setup...the 6N7 not generally regarded as a _top_ flight tube, good though it is, and myself and @connieflyer finding the KT66 appreciably better than the 7581A in all departments lol! 

And so it certainly looks like the 7581A and/or KT66 is a tube that can - and _should_ IMHO! - be included somewhere in anyone's system...they are both exceptional alternatives to *any *6SN7/6N7/7N7/6AS7G/6080 etc...._no question!!_  And now with well over 100hrs on all my 3 KT66s (2 as drivers to 1 as power along with an EL39 at present), their performance in my own system is so far ahead _(objectively)_ of *anything* else before (especially with the Meze Empyreans), that if one has top flight gear elsewhere I suggest folks don't settle for less and just bite the bullet...*go for the KT66 as both drivers* *and powers*...But as usual, the choice is yours lol! 

ps. From what you say about the KT88 J, I'm now _much_ more interested than before even to see how it performs in my system. Perhaps the KT66s as drivers might well bring a tad more of the 'nuance and refinement' you spoke of. I suspect my Empyreans especially will have a good deal to play in this scenario lol ...CHEERS!...CJ

pps. And it would appear the best 'reasonably' priced KT66 is the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion...I personally can't fault this tube in any way whatsoever...


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## hypnos1 (Nov 12, 2019)

OK guys, wakey wakey....................*KT88s in da house!!*....................

First, I'm glad to say that Euforia has taken them - or, rather, _one_ at the moment as partner to an EL39 for comparison purposes - in from the cold and with a warm and hearty welcome lol, just as with the KT66...And once again, just as if this amp was actually made for these tubes!

Even with only a few hours on it, this KT88 is already showing its true colours - more quickly than the KT66 in fact. Can't believe it really, so early in proceedings. But I suspect that although new and unused, these too have had pre-burn-in before shipment from the factory/wholesaler..._nice!_

Driven by the KT66, it's quite clear that this driver/power combination exceeds all expectations...and, in fact, I can't recall such a combination ever being tried before. I'm sure this is yet another discovery unique to our unconventional explorations...especially in a headphone amp!  Although too early for definitive statements of course, already I would say it takes all the virtues of the KT66 and simply augments them. Bass - as expected - is even more thunderous, without being 'bloomy'/soft; stage is on course to be even more 3-dimensional; treble is still sweet, without losing 'spice'/bite, plus just the right balance of mids (for me, anyway) all combine to give an even more dynamic overall presentation.

And all this from just one as power (with the EL39)...can't wait to see how things are with the second 88 in place of the EL39. Plus, it's still in Mrsx's adapter, with my 2x 66s as drivers also in adapters, so things can only get better when I do away with the adapters and convert the tubes directly.

And so this result has brought a sudden halt to any idea of my approaching a manufacturer to (hopefully!) make a headphone amp specifically configured for these tubes...*absolutely no need whatsoever*. We already have a perfectly good vehicle for them IMHO...*here in the Euforia!*  By some incredible fortune, its 6SN7/6AS7G circuitry is ideal for running tubes one could never have envisaged even not all that long ago, and to a standard that echoes everything one reads about them from high-end users...especially in line with each and every upgrade made to the rest of one's system. And the icing on the cake is that we don't really need to spend silly amounts of money on hallowed NOS examples - these Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions take Euforia to levels never reached before (even though I've said this a good few times already with other tube discoveries lol!! ...these KT tubes truly are in a class of their own, and not, obviously, just for esteemed power amps!!).

And so @teknorob23 , you'd better get things hurried along with your new SE amp! And it looks like you're gonna have to add to your bursting tube collection after all @connieflyer ...best get selling off some more of 'em, mon ami!!  And if more 'meat' is what you're after, @OctavianH and @LoryWiv , then any more than these tubes provide would surely lead to dangerous indigestion as far as I'm concerned! ...(but perhaps wait for others' findings first lol!).

Just a couple of not-very-good photos I'm afraid for now...low light levels (my excuse, anyway...) :

 

And one comparing the 88 on the right, to a 66 on the left.....*no difference in size!!*...most unexpected .



HAPPY LISTENING folks!...CJ

ps. *IMPORTANT WARNING/ADVICE...*even though being careful, I managed to insert the tube into Mrsx's adapter without the tube's locating lug fitting/staying nicely in the socket's hole...no wonder it didn't light up!!! And when trying to remove, it was in so tight that levering it out gently still broke off the lug!

I should have suspected something wasn't right while having to push the tube in much harder than usual...*so be warned folks*. Make *absolutely sure* the tube's locating lug fits *snugly* in its hole, and if it feels extra 'stiff', take it out, check for position and try again...This applies to all tubes when fitting into an adapter...just in case!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Can not wait to hear how the pair compare in powers to the KT66 as powers, might just have to go back on my word, one last time!


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## connieflyer

Noticed one thing with Mr.s X's adapters, with these KT66's they were a very tight fit.  Don't know if it was the tubes or the adapters.  Did you have the same?


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## connieflyer

Okay, so why are you continually twisting my arm?  Okay, Okay I just bought a pair.  Paid a little extra, they burn in all their power tubes for 72 hours so will have a head start on them.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 12, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Noticed one thing with Mr.s X's adapters, with these KT66's they were a very tight fit.  Don't know if it was the tubes or the adapters.  Did you have the same?



As I just mentioned cf (probably crossing your own post), the main problem (with the KT88's base at least) was its locating lug being able to be pushed into the adapter's socket without seating properly therein. But to be fair, I've found this in other situations in the past...hence the need to _always_ be extra careful when inserting IMHO lol!! 

And yes, both KTs are quite a tight fit in those adapters, but better that than too _loose_ IMO!!  But it can mean having to use the 'levering' out method to remove the tube, and this also requires great care not to lever one part too much at a time, in case the locating lug breaks!!...ie. lever *all round* the tube's base with a flat-bladed screwdriver _*a little at a time*_, and finish off with a pull (by the base, *not* the glass bulb, especially if an old tube!).


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## connieflyer

Had to do this with with 7581a's when I took them out to insert the KT 66's, so had to use a jewelers screwdriver carefully around the tube, a little at a time.  Did you see my email to you?


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Okay, so why are you continually twisting my arm?  Okay, Okay I just bought a pair.  Paid a little extra, they burn in all their power tubes for 72 hours so will have a head start on them.



Must admit I've noticed I never seem to need to twist your arm _too_ much lol, cf!! . However, once again I'm quite sure you won't be disappointed! ...CHEERS!...CJ...(and WELL DONE!)...


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Had to do this with with 7581a's when I took them out to insert the KT 66's, so had to use a jewelers screwdriver carefully around the tube, a little at a time.  Did you see my email to you?




Hi cf...you mean the one with a set that had *55* tubes?...Yikes, the thought of having to try removing all those if stuck doesn't bear thinking about lol!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Can not wait to hear how the pair compare in powers to the KT66 as powers, might just have to go back on my word, one last time!



Not able to try 2x KT66s as powers I'm afraid cf, with only 3 tubes...and keeping 2 as drivers (these aren't gonna move from there lol!). But even with just one 88 as power in the right channel, I can already tell it's a step (or 2?!!) up from the KT66 as power..._in my system_, at least...CJ


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## connieflyer

Yes 55 tubes, in one radio and you just know with all the vibrations on the aircraft, things were always coming loose. Testing those tubes was shall we say, time consuming.  Well, I guess I can wait till my own get here.  Might be here by end of week.  With 72 hours of pre burn in, these should match  up in a hurry if they are going too.  And these WILL be the last tubes I roll with this amp, promise you that!  Anything new would have to be  a huge upgrade in performance to beat these tubes, so don't see that happening with this amp. So we don't have to look for another amp now, nice to know.  Of course, I am still going to keep on the look out for a new one. Just in case, you understand!


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys, wakey wakey....................*KT88s in da house!!*....................
> 
> First, I'm glad to say that Euforia has taken them - or, rather, _one_ at the moment as partner to an EL39 for comparison purposes - in from the cold and with a warm and hearty welcome lol, just as with the KT66...And once again, just as if this amp was actually made for these tubes!
> 
> ...


----------



## Scutey

Ahh ya beat me to it h1! . Got a pair of the KT88 myself today too, gave them a quick two hour session this morning and out of the box they sounded fantastic, pretty much as you've experienced, very similar to the 66 but with a touch less sweetness on top and a more pronounced/deeper bass. Strangely had another two session earlier this eve and they sounded rather off, somewhat muted, hopefully more burn in will solve the problem, but just going on the first two hour session they're everything the 66 is and more, time for another session! .


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## connieflyer

Just got an email notice my order has shipped, gave me the tracking number FedEx ground no charge for shipping from start to finish about two and a half hours. Cannot complain about that kind of service at all. Well done, upscale audio


----------



## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys, wakey wakey....................*KT88s in da house!!*....................
> 
> First, I'm glad to say that Euforia has taken them - or, rather, _one_ at the moment as partner to an EL39 for comparison purposes - in from the cold and with a warm and hearty welcome lol, just as with the KT66...And once again, just as if this amp was actually made for these tubes!
> 
> ...



Great news and thanks CJ, I think  The Kt188 and 66's are sitting here next my desk waiting, much more patiently than i am, for the new amp to arrive. I did let a couple of the 39's go to the new owner of my old euforia just to ensure the seed of this terrible addiction was properly incubated, but i have two left and by the sounds of it i will only ever be needed one at at time. Amazing news that easily found and relatively inexpensive re-issue tubes come with such amazing performance.. long may this trend last!


----------



## OctavianH

Even if my adapters are still at the local post office, I have to admit the Genalex KT66 are beautiful tubes, and the boxes are also of good quality:






Let's hope the sound will match the first impressions.


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## hypnos1 (Nov 13, 2019)

Scutey said:


> Ahh ya beat me to it h1! . Got a pair of the KT88 myself today too, gave them a quick two hour session this morning and out of the box they sounded fantastic, pretty much as you've experienced, very similar to the 66 but with a touch less sweetness on top and a more pronounced/deeper bass. Strangely had another two session earlier this eve and they sounded rather off, somewhat muted, hopefully more burn in will solve the problem, but just going on the first two hour session they're everything the 66 is and more, time for another session! .



Lovely photos by the way, S! As for the that strange happening, I do hope it was just one of those weird stages new tubes can sometimes go through before they behave properly lol! Have had similar experiences myself, but not usually _too_ bad, thankfully...(the worst have always turned out to be when a cold is trying to fester, with accompanying congestion!! ). Hope all is well once again now, and that they're performing even _better_ now with further burn-in...



teknorob23 said:


> Great news and thanks CJ, I think  The Kt188 and 66's are sitting here next my desk waiting, much more patiently than i am, for the new amp to arrive. I did let a couple of the 39's go to the new owner of my old euforia just to ensure the seed of this terrible addiction was properly incubated, but i have two left and by the sounds of it i will only ever be needed one at at time. Amazing news that easily found and relatively inexpensive re-issue tubes come with such amazing performance.. long may this trend last!



Hi tr...some kind of masochist must you be, not to put those beauties out of sight during the long wait lol! ...but very commendable nonetheless!!  (And the wait will undoubtedly be well worth it, I assure you R...).



OctavianH said:


> Even if my adapters are still at the local post office, I have to admit the Genalex KT66 are beautiful tubes, and the boxes are also of good quality:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi OH...beautiful tubes they are indeed. But I think it must be the same (inebriated?!) guy who put on the bases as with some of the 7581As...more Leaning Towers of Pisa, I'm afraid! But thankfully, it doesn't seem to affect the sound negatively in any way lol! And I do hope they finally tickle your ear buds the way you like it!! ...GOOD LUCK!!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> more Leaning Towers of Pisa, I'm afraid! But thankfully, it doesn't seem to affect the sound negatively in any way lol!



I aleady have at home a Tower of Pisa in the form of a Tung Sol 5998 with top/side O-getter, here in the left position:






But the sound is not affected in any way, Works perfectly, so I am not bothered too much. Let's hope the KT66 will also work fine tomorrow when I'll try them.


----------



## connieflyer

Speaking to the poor performance lava tube after having such good results oh, I had that same problem with the kt66, things were sounding fantastic for a few days and then next time I went to listen to it The Sound was off. It wasn't as rich or as detailed as it had been the previous day so I just put it back on silent play on the headphones Let It Go for a day and next time I put it back on the sound was right back where it was so yeah I think it's just one of those crazy things where everything is getting settled in and just takes a while until everything is just perfect. Kt88 will be here on Monday so the Saga will begin all over again. Thanks CJ!


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Even if my adapters are still at the local post office, I have to admit the Genalex KT66 are beautiful tubes, and the boxes are also of good quality:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Lovely photos by the way, S! As for the that strange happening, I do hope it was just one of those weird stages new tubes can sometimes go through before they behave properly lol! Have had similar experiences myself, but not usually _too_ bad, thankfully...(the worst have always turned out to be when a cold is trying to fester, with accompanying congestion!! ). Hope all is well once again now, and that they're performing even _better_ now with further burn-in...


All is good today h1, they're back to sounding wonderful, just a blip, the bass from the KT88 is rather addictive, they also sound very impressive in Elise too!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Speaking to the poor performance lava tube after having such good results oh, I had that same problem with the kt66, things were sounding fantastic for a few days and then next time I went to listen to it The Sound was off. It wasn't as rich or as detailed as it had been the previous day so I just put it back on silent play on the headphones Let It Go for a day and next time I put it back on the sound was right back where it was so yeah I think it's just one of those crazy things where everything is getting settled in and just takes a while until everything is just perfect. Kt88 will be here on Monday so the Saga will begin all over again. *Thanks CJ!*



My pleasure cf...perhaps I do have a sadistic streak after all lol?!! ...(But probably only as an antidote to my own _masochism!!!_ ).



Scutey said:


> All is good today h1, they're back to sounding wonderful, just a blip, the bass from the KT88 is rather addictive, they also sound very impressive in Elise too!



Phew, thank the Gods for that, S.... Interesting that both you and cf experienced the same thing. Perhaps I myself had no such issue with any of my 3x KT66s or 1x (so far) KT88 due to my burning them in with 10+ hrs sessions, and simply missing them? Whatever, these glass wonders we're addicted to do seem to delight in giving us the runaround...not to mention mini heart attacks lol!  I suspect it could possibly be down to the amp's _auto bias_ taking time to adjust properly to non configured-for tubes, along with other sections of the circuitry...and which would explain F-A's "all over the place" bench test readings, no doubt leading to them not actually give enough time when testing the EL11s I sent them for assessment...(they should have persevered lol!! ). Fortunately, I - and others - _have_ persevered with such testing, and has culminated in discovering that we can in fact benefit from using some of the most revered tubes on the planet...the latest, and greatest (for us, at least) IMHO being the KT family.

And yes, that bass from the KT88 is something else. Even with just one as partner in my own power slot at present, and with only a few hours on it (notwithstanding possible, minimal pre burn-in), I was very pleasantly surprised at how deep, solid and controlled it was. And I'm sure that as is normally the case after many more hours, treble will 'sweeten' and develop in other ways also. 

ps. Have you tried them with KT66s as drivers yet? Look forward to how you find _this_ combo lol! 

pps. Glad to hear Elise gives them a warm welcome also......CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> My pleasure cf...perhaps I do have a sadistic streak after all lol?!! ...(But probably only as an antidote to my own _masochism!!!_ ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well what you say about the KT's throwing out the auto bias makes perfect sense, as the first day with the 88's I only managed to get two two hour sessions in, yesterday, after a longer burn in they sounded _*much *_better, the clear, clean extended highs came back along with that gorgeous bass, btw I would certainly recommend trying two 88's in the power slot, also I found they paired very well with the denser sounding 7581A.

No h1 I've not tried the 66 as drivers yet, been enjoying the way they sound with the 7581A  but that will be today's combo, 88/66 with my usual test tracks .


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 13, 2019)

I read on the Glenn thread about the relationship between Genalex and GEC. Makes me wonder if these Genalex KT66 & 88 Russian reissues are a newer variant of GEC tubes from a newer factory?

@gibosi said:
""Genalex" was the brand GEC used on tubes destined for the US market. Given the fact that GE was a major manufacturer in the US, it would have been very confusing to have both GE and GEC labeled tubes in the US marketplace. So yes, what he is saying is correct. They were made by Osram/Marconi to be sold in the US. I can't say why GEC chose to create a new brand rather than use Marconi or Osram but again it was all about marketing."

Also Osram is still around making light lubls, such as with a new LED light factory in Malaysia. And here is their old British factory. The name Osram somehow reminds me of H1 / Colin


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> I read on the Glenn thread about the relationship between Genalex and GEC. Makes me wonder if these Genalex KT66 & 88 Russian reissues are a newer variant of GEC tubes from a newer factory?
> 
> @gibosi said:
> ""Genalex" was the brand GEC used on tubes destined for the US market. Given the fact that GE was a major manufacturer in the US, it would have been very confusing to have both GE and GEC labeled tubes in the US marketplace. So yes, what he is saying is correct. They were made by Osram/Marconi to be sold in the US. I can't say why GEC chose to create a new brand rather than use Marconi or Osram but again it was all about marketing."
> ...



Yo DL...When the GEC/Marconi/Osram/Mullard etc. factories all closed down triportsad:!!), machinery went to various parts of the world, along with the rights to make and market tubes to the same design but with (usually) different brand names. One major player in this game appears to have been an American, Mike Matthews, with a fascinating history in the tube world...starting with imports of Russian tubes/buying the famous 'Sovtek' brand/establishing Electro-Harmonix. Then came his 'New Sensor Corporation', expanding his promotion of well known old names in tube manufacture through reissue factories in Russia, China and Yugoslavia. 

And so we all owe a huge debt of gratitude to this amazing guy lol!...well, all of us who like exceptional performance from tubes a fraction of the price of NOS ancestors that is lol! 

Anyway, here's a few links for anyone interested in knowing a little more : https://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/2017/07/20/audio-tubes-jeopardy/
https://shop.ehx.com/category/tubes-vacuum/tubes/    .......https://shop.ehx.com/item/kt88 genalex/tubes-vacuum-genalex-gold-lion/

I personally like what they say about the Gold Lion KT88...ie. " Gold grid wire; carbonised screen grids; tri-alloy clad plate structure". No wonder it sounds tremendous lol! . And from the description, a prime case of same factories making the same tubes but to _different_ _specifications..._and so 'not all (similar) tubes being equal'......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Yo DL...When the GEC/Marconi/Osram/Mullard etc. factories all closed down triportsad:!!), machinery went to various parts of the world, along with the rights to make and market tubes to the same design but with (usually) different brand names. One major player in this game appears to have been an American, Mike Matthews, with a fascinating history in the tube world...starting with imports of Russian tubes/buying the famous 'Sovtek' brand/establishing Electro-Harmonix. Then came his 'New Sensor Corporation', expanding his promotion of well known old names in tube manufacture through reissue factories in Russia, China and Yugoslavia.
> 
> And so we all owe a huge debt of gratitude to this amazing guy lol!...well, all of us who like exceptional performance from tubes a fraction of the price of NOS ancestors that is lol!
> 
> ...


The first article appears to be fake news.....especially with the disclaimer at the end.


----------



## connieflyer

The article he referred to what's 13 years ago and when you quote the New York Times it's not like you're getting up-to-date honest information. I go on my own judgment call after having tried the genelecs brand of tubes, I think they are quite good. The quad of kt66 that I've been using are excellent. I have a pair of kt88 on the way in this Monday, and with the current information from members hear that I trust these seem to also be a very good value. Plus the distributor in the United States, upscale audio selves these tubes as well. They are also the distributor for Feliks audio in the US. They burn all their power tubes for 72 hours to make sure they are getting some decent reliability at the outset. Looking at their years in the business and their reputation I would have to believe what they are putting out compared to a blogger that I have no knowledge of. Add in the fact of personal experience with this brand and others on this thread whom I trust I would have to say that the genelecs is a good upstanding product. I have used the electro-harmonix tubes in the past and they worked out quite well.


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 14, 2019)

mordy said:


> The first article appears to be fake news.....especially with the disclaimer at the end.



Interesting view m...and who really knows all the facts surrounding commercial rivalry/subterfuge/'dirty tricks'...let alone _government_ interference lol?!  Me, I'd be very surprised indeed if an American organisation proving to be very successful (and of a not insignificant size) in a Russian market did _not_ ruffle a good few feathers!! And his Electro-Harmonix venture was (is) certainly not small potatoes! 

At the end of the day, all that really counts IMHO is the marvellous work Mike Matthews has done on our behalf, along with other products of course! And given the wonderful sounds I'm now getting from these reissue Genalex Gold Lion KTs, I'd be the first to give him a big HUG lol!! ...CJ


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 14, 2019)

Ok guys, I joined the club. First hour here. I do not hear anything special yet but we will see in the next 200 hours.






*Later edit: *

Indeed, these start to grow fast and seem to be a very good combination. Yep, I like it even if I am definitely far away the minimum burn in hours. Therefore I'll go also for a pair of KT88. Many thanks @hypnos1 for this discovery, indeed, you were right.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Well what you say about the KT's throwing out the auto bias makes perfect sense, as the first day with the 88's I only managed to get two two hour sessions in, yesterday, after a longer burn in they sounded _*much *_better, the clear, clean extended highs came back along with that gorgeous bass, btw I would certainly recommend trying two 88's in the power slot, also I found they paired very well with the denser sounding 7581A.
> 
> No h1 I've not tried the 66 as drivers yet, been enjoying the way they sound with the 7581A  but that will be today's combo, 88/66 with my usual test tracks .



Well, S, from the sound that's now coming out of my KT88 powered right channel driven by a KT66, I've a horrible(!) feeling the superlative EL39 has more than met its match. With a good few more hours on the 88, along with that amazing bass is now the most exquisite treble I've heard from my setup...in every respect you care to name. 

And so tomorrow I shall doctor my DIY EL38 adapter to be able to take it, with fevered expectation lol!  (unfortunately you can't do the same with Mrsx's EL38 adapter ). With every new day's burn in these KT66s and 88s simply confirm I've no need *whatsoever *to even look for another amp... Euforia is now in a different league altogether, and this tube lover is one really happy bunny...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

That is great news CJ, I hope you are able to change your adapter easily so you can see how good these eighty-eights as a pair will be. I have to wait until Monday to get my 88, and will take mrs. X adapters from the 66 power and put those on the 88 for power. I can hardly wait! First time in a long time I've actually been excited about this amplifiers possibilities very thank you again


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Well, S, from the sound that's now coming out of my KT88 powered right channel driven by a KT66, I've a horrible(!) feeling the superlative EL39 has more than met its match. With a good few more hours on the 88, along with that amazing bass is now the most exquisite treble I've heard from my setup...in every respect you care to name.
> 
> And so tomorrow I shall doctor my DIY EL38 adapter to be able to take it, with fevered expectation lol!  (unfortunately you can't do the same with Mrsx's EL38 adapter ). With every new day's burn in these KT66s and 88s simply confirm I've no need *whatsoever *to even look for another amp... Euforia is now in a different league altogether, and this tube lover is one really happy bunny...CJ


Good to hear you're going for the x2 KT88 h1, with this tube more is most definitely erm more! lol, the bass as you say is amazing, but also just how holographic these tubes are, micro details, the space around every sound and instrument, I thought the EL38 and 39 could not be bettered but they have, and as with the other guys it's a big thank you from me for pioneering yet another outstanding tube and all the pleasure and satisfaction that come with the exquisite sound they make in our top drawer F A amps.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Ok guys, I joined the club. First hour here. I do not hear anything special yet but we will see in the next 200 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's also good to hear you have your adapters Octavian, and also that you're hearing how good this combo is, and with more burn in, I assure they will only get better, I found, as I think others have, the 7581A takes a while longer to significantly improve than the KT66, I would say roughly 20 hours for the KT66 and around 40 for the 7581A, that's when I really started to "get it", of course, as you rightly say these will keep on improving well past 100 hours, hope you enjoy the journey.


----------



## OctavianH

Scutey said:


> It's also good to hear you have your adapters Octavian, and also that you're hearing how good this combo is, and with more burn in, I assure they will only get better, I found, as I think others have, the 7581A takes a while longer to significantly improve than the KT66, I would say roughly 20 hours for the KT66 and around 40 for the 7581A, that's when I really started to "get it", of course, as you rightly say these will keep on improving well past 100 hours, hope you enjoy the journey.



I already ordered a pair of Genalex KT88 at around 60 EUR/piece which is a very fair price for me. These tubes are really good, and I am more happy to say this about a new production model which is easier to find and much cheaper than the already known unicorns. I have not idea why, but for me the KT66 is somehow similar with Tung Sol 7236. Anyway, I will burn in these with pleasure and also try the KT88. I have become a believer of the KT army.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I already ordered a pair of Genalex KT88 at around 60 EUR/piece which is a very fair price for me. These tubes are really good, and I am more happy to say this about a new production model which is easier to find and much cheaper than the already known unicorns. I have not idea why, but for me the KT66 is somehow similar with Tung Sol 7236. Anyway, I will burn in these with pleasure and also try the KT88. I have become a believer of the KT army.



PHEW! OH...was beginning to seriously wonder what else we could do to bring you your heart's desire lol!  But am so glad you're beginning to see (hear!) the potential of these KT tubes. And as always, _they can only get better!_  And as @Scutey confirms, the KT*88* is even more impressive, so WELL DONE for jumping down this rabbit hole with the rest of us (at least there's a soft(ish!) landing at the bottom - wallet notwithstanding!! ...ENJOY!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 14, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> That is great news CJ, I hope you are able to change your adapter easily so you can see how good these eighty-eights as a pair will be. I have to wait until Monday to get my 88, and will take mrs. X adapters from the 66 power and put those on the 88 for power. I can hardly wait! First time in a long time I've actually been excited about this amplifiers possibilities very thank you again



Yo cf...a simple wire link between 2 adapter socket pins...et voila!...working perfectly . And you have to wait 'til Monday for your 88s?...*too cruel*, mon ami!!  But once again, the wait will be well worth while to be sure. To be honest, I wasn't expecting _too_ much more than the 66, but needn't have doubted...this tube is indeed all that many rave about in the 6L6/KT camp..._and more!!_ ...(Do try to have a nice weekend nonetheless, mon ami...I feel your pain...).



Scutey said:


> Good to hear you're going for the x2 KT88 h1, with this tube more is most definitely erm more! lol, the bass as you say is amazing, but also just how holographic these tubes are, micro details, the space around every sound and instrument, I thought the EL38 and 39 could not be bettered but they have, and as with the other guys it's a big thank you from me for pioneering yet another outstanding tube and all the pleasure and satisfaction that come with the exquisite sound they make in our top drawer F A amps.



Well yes, Scutey, already I think I shall be mourning the loss of my EL39 from its power slot...and that's before 'full surgery' on my four KTs lol. Would never have thought it possible!  So I'll let my second 88 - along with the other KTs! - burn in overnight once again for 12+ hrs (still confident it'll be perfectly safe), and so - hopefully - be spared any silly 'hiccough' along the way!!  Can't wait to hear what greets me in the morning...(shan't even listen any more tonight - don't want to dilute the 'morning glory' lol ). Plus I'm in desperate need of an early night anyway...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Nice to know (once again!) my efforts are appreciated...they would be hollow accomplishments indeed if not shared with you guys, so thanks to y'all from me also...HAPPY LISTENING!


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 14, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> PHEW! OH...was beginning to seriously wonder what else we could do to bring you your heart's desire lol!  But am so glad you're beginning to see (hear!) the potential of these KT tubes. And as always, _they can only get better!_  And as @Scutey confirms, the KT*88* is even more impressive, so WELL DONE for jumping down this rabbit hole with the rest of us (at least there's a soft(ish!) landing at the bottom - wallet notwithstanding!! ...ENJOY!...CJ



I jumped with my head on front. After hearing the potential this combo has (even if I am on the beginning of the road and I still need 197 hours to be convinced) I just clicked and ordered a pair of Genalex KT88. These tubes are great, a lot of micro-details and a very pleasant presentation. And I have to say they have good mids for my beloved heavy metal. The electrical guitar sounds right and this is very important for me.  But as many already said these are capricious on the first hours, so at the first listen they were dull, then fast changed to better, and then somehow changed again. I will wait patiently here for at least 50 hours, I remember while burning in the Psvane CV181T2 that I had a non pleasant surprise at around 150 hours when they started to sound like crap. I started to think I am crazy because I paid 200 EUR for a matched pair, and they soon recovered and proved to be much better than before, so the timeframe between 150 - 200 hours was very important and provided strange results at first sight, but now they are one of my favourite drivers. Strange are the ways of the tube rolling but I, for sure, enjoy every mile. Even if I was not a EL family lover (except for EL12N) I start to become a KT family lover. They are, for sure, a "best bang for buck" combination which provides a good sound at a bargain price. I cannot say why for me, at these early hours, the KT66 sounds somehow similar with Tung Sol 7236, but somehow better, warmer and with a full body compared with them. And Tung Sol 7236 are one of my favourite power tubes. Let's see how the KT88 will sound, but before that, I would like more hours of these, and only improvement is seen on the horizon


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I already ordered a pair of Genalex KT88 at around 60 EUR/piece which is a very fair price for me. These tubes are really good, and I am more happy to say this about a new production model which is easier to find and much cheaper than the already known unicorns. I have not idea why, but for me the KT66 is somehow similar with Tung Sol 7236. Anyway, I will burn in these with pleasure and also try the KT88. I have become a believer of the KT army.


Good to hear, ps great pic!.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Yo cf...a simple wire link between 2 adapter socket pins...et voila!...working perfectly . And you have to wait 'til Monday for your 88s?...*too cruel*, mon ami!!  But once again, the wait will be well worth while to be sure. To be honest, I wasn't expecting _too_ much more than the 66, but needn't have doubted...this tube is indeed all that many rave about in the 6L6/KT camp..._and more!!_ ...(Do try to have a nice weekend nonetheless, mon ami...I feel your pain...).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With another 12+ hours on them you're going to get the dawn chorus .... with bells on methinks, must do an over nighter myself, if I can pluck up the courage to leave it on all night.


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> With another 12+ hours on them you're going to get the dawn chorus .... with bells on methinks, must do an over nighter myself, if I can pluck up the courage to leave it on all night.



Ah, S...'He who dares wins'!! ... but I do normally advise caution (just make sure a smoke detector is nearby!!...although the risk is indeed only very small ). 

Roll on the morn...g'night all...CJ


----------



## attmci (Nov 14, 2019)

This imbecile is crazy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254421042294?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254420147789?ul_noapp=true


----------



## attmci

Liu Junyuan said:


> Hey!
> 
> Yeah, I like to check up on various threads from time to time, to see what people are up to. So this will be off-topic.
> 
> ...


What r u talking about HERE. You will be ignored.


----------



## mordy

attmci said:


> This imbecile is crazy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/254421042294?ul_noapp=true
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/254420147789?ul_noapp=true



Maybe this is a better buy - 39,500 tubes for $3,500:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Tub...072009?hash=item5b3fc7a349:g:5a0AAOSwUoNZ7kM1


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Nov 14, 2019)

attmci said:


> What r u talking about HERE. You will be ignored.



Not sure if you're being ironic. I was replying to @DecentLevi 's question, which asked what I was up to. THAT is what I was talking about.


----------



## Johnnysound (Nov 15, 2019)

Russian 6P3S-E tubes look quite interesting at $10 each, with great reviews...


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 15, 2019)

H1 I congratulate you on the otherworldly sound you must be getting from your system with the Genalex KT66 driving KT88, I guess you have to finish making adapters to try 2 of each?

Not trying to egg the spending on, but just thought to note that given the exceptional results of Genalex KT88 reissue, it may also be worthy to also try these other KT88 reissues in comparison, which are all on the Electro-Harmonix website for around $75-100:

Tung Sol 6550 (KT88 equivalent)

Electro-Harmonix 6550 (KT88 equivalent)

JJ KT88 & JJ KT88BL
 
(photos thanks to Electro-Harmonix)

Also per my question yesterday, is there much merit to the notion that the Genalex (or any of the above) are offshoots of the original GEC/Marconi/Osram and that they are comparable sonically?


----------



## DecentLevi

@Johnnysound Have you gotten to compare your KT-150's to KT66 or 88? And how are they suiting you sonically, and temperature wise?


----------



## mordy

Maybe start with this original GEC quad:




Free shipping  and the cost a mere $5,200.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-KT88-M...098986?hash=item444167d16a:g:6kAAAOSwdAxddFpP


----------



## attmci

Liu Junyuan said:


> Not sure if you're being ironic. I was replying to @DecentLevi 's question, which asked what I was up to. THAT is what I was talking about.


Sorry, I was kidding, and didn't see his message.


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Maybe start with this original GEC quad:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely bonkers, for that price I would expect them to be delivered personally by Queen Elizabeth


----------



## connieflyer

What makes you think they are not delivered by the Queen? Perhaps if you opt for second day service, they will be delivered by your new princess from the U.S. tv show.!


----------



## hypnos1

Right then @Scutey ; @OctavianH and @connieflyer ...I've a bone to pick with you guys! Got up this morning with fevered expectation after 12 more hours' burn in of my second KT88 as power, and what do I get?..._muted, subdued, dull _inferiority lol!! . Where on Earth was that lovely sparkle/air/3D stage??? ..._weird!!_

Anyway, having to take some of my own medicine, I gritted my teeth, switched everything off for an hour and then back on for another 4 hours...and...EUREKA!, everything back to 'normal', only even _better_...*phew!!*  So it looks like my own tubes decided to copy you guys' experience..._but you can keep it - not nice lol!_  (But now, you're all forgiven ).

And what can I say?...you were dead right S - I'm sad to say my beloved EL39 will not be going back into its slot...mixed feelings about that lol . Already, this combination of KT66s driving the KT88s has simply got to be the ultimate tube setup for our amps...no way can this sound be bettered (??!!). Everything from bass to delicate, but still 'sparkly' treble - via gorgeous mids, is faultless and of the highest quality. And with a soundstage to die for. What else could one ask?..._nothing_, as far as I myself am concerned. What I'll get with further burn-in of my last KT tube, and then converting them all so no need for adapter I can't begin to imagine lol...(just more of the same, hopefully!! 

Anyway folks, another sub-standard photo (artificial light this time!) :  but _*THIS IS IT!!!*_...

 

CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

Scutey said:


> Absolutely bonkers, for that price I would expect them to be delivered personally by Queen Elizabeth


Maybe include a free trip to New Zealand where the tubes are located....


----------



## Liu Junyuan

attmci said:


> Sorry, I was kidding, and didn't see his message.



It is easy to miscommunicate outside of face-to-face. I guess that is why you used the emoji, but even that can be misinterpreted .


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

Well, CJ, at least you now know we were not imagining this condition.  Very disturbing when it first happens, to say the least. I tried some tube rolling last night, tried the KT66 powers and 7581a's as drivers, and I must say that is also a very good combo.  But (isn't there always one!) what I am finding this morning is the KT66 powers and Gold Aero 6sn7GT as drivers is much better, maybe even better than my quad of KT66's.  BlasphemyI know, but I get much more signal (lowered the volume a quarter on the Euforia and backed off the volume on the Anthem -3db.  Vocals and mids are so much improved over what I was hearing with the KT66 quad. Will continue with these for awhile longer, a few more hours anyways, shut down and retry and see if I am still hearing this.  Then may try some of the other 6sn7's and see if it is just the Gold Aero or if it is the type of tube. Confused. But remembering back, I always did like the Gold Aero 6sn7 gt and the Gold Aero 5998A together so maybe not so strange.


----------



## mordy (Nov 15, 2019)

New ballgame, new players - now you have to dusty off old tubes and figure out new synergistic combinations. And watch out for the schizophrenic tendencies of the 88.......
Does it ever end?
I do want to add that I have discovered (together with others) that using pairs of the single triode equivalents of the dual 6SN7 family tubes yields better results than using a dual triode.
In the case of the FA amps it would mean two pairs of triodes in the 6SN7 sockets and I don't know if this works in the FA amps, but in my case, with a single dual triode driver socket, it works very well.


----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> What makes you think they are not delivered by the Queen? Perhaps if you opt for second day service, they will be delivered by your new princess from the U.S. tv show.!


Well I've had a look into this, the Queen does the first class and Prince Charles does the second class, now I know why it's called Royal Mail


----------



## Scutey

Blimey h1, that must have been a bit of a choker to say the least!, these KT's really do love to throw us a curve ball!, but also good to hear they've come back, I guess like O and CF and myself you are now forewarned is forearmed!.

And regarding you're EL39, I knew you'd like x2 88's, so with you're EL39 h1, is it a case of "the king is dead, long live the king"?.

ps great pic!


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 15, 2019)

2nd day here and around 15 hours. For me the 2nd day test is very important, not once I've had the unpleasant suprise to observe in the 2nd day that a combo was worse than what I heard on the first day or at least different. I always thought this is a kind of brain game, and after a pause you expect something different or remember what you heard last evening in a different way.
Anyway, with a little fear in my mind, I started today again the same combination. And voila, everything is fine and sounds good. So no ugly surprise in the 2nd day as I was fearing.






I can say that this combination is incredible for rock music, sounds good with every type of guitar, electric or not,  has some very special mids and it is very dynamic. I can say this combination exceeded by far my expectations and I guess I am only at the beginning of my journey here.
I take the burn in times of your tubes with a "grain of salt" because yours were pre-burned in at Hot Rox (or how it is named that shop in UK where some of the guys here bought them). So most probably, mine, which seem to be new, need more time to reach the same maturity.
But the burn in process is a pleasure, because I enjoy every minute without having any problem. I start to wonder what I will do with my tube collection... because if these continue to evolve it is hard to think if I will want other combo.
I have not checked gain factor or other parameters, but I keep Elise's volume knob with 2 lines above the usual listening level for 6SN7/6AS7... but this is not a problem.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well, CJ, at least you now know we were not imagining this condition.  Very disturbing when it first happens, to say the least. I tried some tube rolling last night, tried the KT66 powers and 7581a's as drivers, and I must say that is also a very good combo.  But (isn't there always one!) what I am finding this morning is the KT66 powers and Gold Aero 6sn7GT as drivers is much better, maybe even better than my quad of KT66's.  BlasphemyI know, but I get much more signal (lowered the volume a quarter on the Euforia and backed off the volume on the Anthem -3db.  Vocals and mids are so much improved over what I was hearing with the KT66 quad. Will continue with these for awhile longer, a few more hours anyways, shut down and retry and see if I am still hearing this.  Then may try some of the other 6sn7's and see if it is just the Gold Aero or if it is the type of tube. Confused. But remembering back, I always did like the Gold Aero 6sn7 gt and the Gold Aero 5998A together so maybe not so strange.
> 
> Hi cf...looks like you're in for a good deal of experimentation with these combos, not to mention confusion _and_ consternation lol!  But as always, this game of ours can take many twists and turns before we find what suits us best..._for now!!_  Things have a (nasty) habit of changing over time, but some say that's part of the allure of this tube world of ours...(me, I call it _frustration_ lol!! ). Whatever, good luck with finding what suits best...and who knows, everything could possibly change when you get those KT88s driven by the 66s...or _not!_ ...CJ





mordy said:


> New ballgame, new players - now you have to dusty off old tubes and figure out new synergistic combinations. And watch out for the schizophrenic tendencies of the 88.......
> Does it ever end?
> I do want to add that I have discovered (together with others) that using pairs of the single triode equivalents of the dual 6SN7 family tubes yields better results than using a dual triode.
> In the case of the FA amps it would mean two pairs of triodes in the 6SN7 sockets and I don't know if this works in the FA amps, but in my case, with a single dual triode driver socket, it works very well.



Hi m. Yes indeed, even more opportunities for experimental combinations...(as if we needed any more lol!! ).
And I suspect any 'anomalies' re. the KT88 are more likely over time when being pushed much harder than in our amps?...

Many folks do indeed rate _single_ triodes over _doubles_...which makes a lot of sense really. Hence my preference for tubes that have only one plate (anode) living inside the tube - like the pentodes and now the _tetrodes_...especially the KTs (Kink-less Tetrodes!). But I shall leave that to others...certainly no 3rd party _double_ adapters for me, anyway!! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Blimey h1, that must have been a bit of a choker to say the least!, these KT's really do love to throw us a curve ball!, but also good to hear they've come back, I guess like O and CF and myself you are now forewarned is forearmed!.
> 
> And regarding you're EL39, I knew you'd like x2 88's, so with you're EL39 h1, is it a case of "the king is dead, long live the king"?.
> 
> ps great pic!



Yo S...a curved ball indeed, but it definitely looks like a case of 'getting worse before getting better' lol!! 

Anyway folks, with about 28 hrs (including 2x 1 hr breaks) on my second KT88 now - and well over 100 on the first and even more on the KT66 drivers - I do indeed have to mourn the passing of King EL39 alas. 

In my own system, I'm now finding - as it would appear are you also, Scutey - that this KT66/KT88 combo work together 'to the manor born'. In addition to those superlative qualities we have already touched on - ie. re. bass/details/clarity/balance/stage etc., after more extensive testing of my favourite tracks I can safely report that in many other respects also it romps ahead of anything else prior...viz :

1. Note sustain and decay is taken to a whole new level...most impressive being 'splash'-type treble, of all kinds.

2. Female vocals especially have a lot more texture and subtlety, from the softer Mary Fahl in 'Goin' Home' from 'Gods and Generals', thru Joni Mitchell's 'A case of You', to a rather more 'upbeat' Lindsey Stirling's 'When the Stars Align' (did I say _subtle?!!_). Actually, the last number is more a showcase for the tube combo's very impressive soundstage.

3. Related to stage presentation, I was taken aback this afternoon by Alan Parson's masterly use of panning in tracks from his 'The Turn of a Friendly Card'. I have always loved the 'roll around your head' effect in 'The Gold Bug', but this was a truly psychedelic experience like never before. This ability alone is enough to have me addicted to this tube combo for life lol! 

4. The dynamic, bass-infused presentation never at any time overpowers the rest of the frequency range, or diminishes the extended tones/harmonics of the (IMHO) _ultimate_ equipment test - ie. struck/plucked/bowed strings of acoustic instruments ...everything remains under tight, coherent, effortless and _masterful _control. In other words, everything just feels _right_, leaving one (me, anyway) wanting for _nothing_...

Naturally, the rest of one's gear will influence the degree of these qualities, but for me personally, the end result is now one that means I have no desire whatsoever to continue on the merry-go-round of trying anything else...not even @DecentLevi , any of those other KT versions (or different members of the 6L6 family). Especially given the generally held view that the Genalex Gold Lion KTs are not too far off the (horrendously priced) originals...and which is certainly good enough for me lol ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. DL...It appears none of these reissue manufacture of old tubes were 'offshoots' of the original companies...when they were gone, they were gone alas! Machinery was sold off, along with designs, specifications etc. to the likes of Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix and his New Sensor Corporation...and may the Gods bless him!!


----------



## OctavianH

I like a lot what I read here, and I start to think that 4 adapters are not enough for me. When I ordered them the plan was to use 4 x TS 7581A and now I have also KT66 and KT88 on the way. I do not like to remove adapters from the tubes, but in order to try the KT88 I will be forced to do so. Anyone thinks to try the KT150? I've read some good things about them so I am just curious.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> 2nd day here and around 15 hours. For me the 2nd day test is very important, not once I've had the unpleasant suprise to observe in the 2nd day that a combo was worse than what I heard on the first day or at least different. I always thought this is a kind of brain game, and after a pause you expect something different or remember what you heard last evening in a different way.
> Anyway, with a little fear in my mind, I started today again the same combination. And voila, everything is fine and sounds good. So no ugly surprise in the 2nd day as I was fearing.
> 
> 
> ...



Hi OH...your 'conversion' is music to my heart and soul lol. I'm so glad you're enjoying the special qualities of these tubes. And "want no other combo"?...just wait 'til you hear the KT88s driven by the KT66! But then, nothing is ever 100% guaranteed in this hobby of ours!! (But I shall keep my fingers crossed ...GOOD LUCK!).

And yes, burn-in times will definitely vary depending on any pre burn-in or not...it could well be that my own 'hiccough' with my KT88s was down to none, as opposed to the 66s. But one thing's for sure, it's nowhere near as long as the 7581As!! ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 15, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> I like a lot what I read here, and I start to think that 4 adapters are not enough for me. When I ordered them the plan was to use 4 x TS 7581A and now I have also KT66 and KT88 on the way. I do not like to remove adapters from the tubes, but in order to try the KT88 I will be forced to do so. Anyone thinks to try the KT150? I've read some good things about them so I am just curious.



I too like the look of the KT150 and what _some_ say about it. But at the price of them, I personally won't be taking the chance that they just might not perform in our amps quite the same as when properly configured for (but I could well be wrong, of course!). Also, @connieflyer linked me a post from an obviously avid fan of the KT family, whose final words were actually recommending to stay with the KT88 if not wanting to push the KT150 anywhere near its full potential. Now, if some used examples were to appear at a reasonable price I could just be tempted...but as with all the other KTs, none (reissue, that is) ever seem to do so...(which says a lot to me, anyway lol! ).

ps. 150s OH?...my, but you could be catching this bug BIG time!!


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> I too like the look of the KT150 and what _some_ say about it. But at the price of them, I personally won't be taking the chance that they just might not perform in our amps quite the same as when properly configured for (but I could well be wrong, of course!). Also, @connieflyer linked me a post from an obviously avid fan of the KT family, whose final words were actually recommending to stay with the KT88 if not wanting to push the KT150 anywhere near its full potential. Now, if some used examples were to appear at a reasonable price I could just be tempted...but as with all the other KTs, none (reissue, that is) ever seem to do so...(which says a lot to me, anyway lol! ).
> 
> ps. 150s OH?...my, but you could be catching this bug BIG time!!



Well, I was just asking. I would say I need time to properly enjoy these ones. I really like what I hear from KT66 + 7581A. If KT88 will add more to the table why not. But to buy also the KT150 which are available here locally at around 100 EUR / piece I guess it is too much. It means I have to spend 200 EUR when I already have so many combos to try and enjoy. I would say no, or at least not now, but in the future why not? I have to admit I like how they look, but this is a very non professional criterion. We will see, please continue to share your findings, your work and dedication is very much appreciated.


----------



## Johnnysound

DecentLevi said:


> @Johnnysound Have you gotten to compare your KT-150's to KT66 or 88? And how are they suiting you sonically, and temperature wise?



Not yet DL..only to KT77s. The 150s ran nicely in Euforia and I liked their sound as triodes more than as pentodes in my PA: quick, detailed top to bottom, very dynamic and with powerful bass, they are really BIG sounding tubes ! No issues with temperatures...they draw 2 amps max.  However, I ended preferring the KT77s which are equally detailed but smoother sounding, with a lovely midrange, more “organic” and musical overall...and they worked nicely as drivers or powers.

Still waiting for another pair of adaptors to test them as a quad.  The Genalex 77s are regarded (and praised) as perhaps the finest reproduction  of the GEC originals...like an EL34 on steroids, with none of the shortcomings of that classic tube, but sharing its virtues.  I had to admit that they  sounded better than old stock EL34s in my PA...and this is saying something.  You know, for me the first “new” tube that managed to capture the “magic” of the oldies...

In this same line, the GL KT66s and KT88s are also highly regarded reproductions, but different families, and undoubtedly they will sound _different_ to the KT77s.  By my experience with the (Tung-Sol) KT150s I do not feel the need to try the GL KT88s that might be similar, and the sheer authority and bass of the “big boys” are hard to beat...still, soundwise the KT66s look really interesting for being even better (according to some impressions) to the 7581As, specially in terms of transparency, that I value the most...


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 16, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> 2nd day here and around 15 hours. For me the 2nd day test is very important, not once I've had the unpleasant suprise to observe in the 2nd day that a combo was worse than what I heard on the first day or at least different. I always thought this is a kind of brain game, and after a pause you expect something different or remember what you heard last evening in a different way.
> Anyway, with a little fear in my mind, I started today again the same combination. And voila, everything is fine and sounds good. So no ugly surprise in the 2nd day as I was fearing.
> 
> 
> ...



As a fellow Elise owner I appreciate your findings, @OctavianH. I just completed a very time consuming endeavor related to my profession, and am a bit behind all of you "high rollers." Still burning in my Tung Sol 7581A'a in the power position driven by Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's, perhaps 100 hours on the 7581A's.  Quite a lot to like with this current combo., and I also have a pair of NOS Sylvania 1952 6SN7GT's arriving next week. Depending upon the results with those "bad boys" driving the 7581A's, I'll likely order 2 more adapters from Deyan and switch the 7581A's into the driver's seat. I listen to more classical and acoustic music (just a smattering of classic rock) and am still debating if I follow your route with KT66 powers or bypass that step straight to KT88's. Decisions, decisions!


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> As a fellow Elise owner I appreciate your findings, @OctavianH. I just completed a very time consuming endeavor related to my profession, and am a bit behind all of you "high rollers." Still burning in my Tung Sol 7581A'a in the power position driven by Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's, perhaps 100 hours on the 7581A's.  Quite a lot to like with this current combo.,, and I also have a pair of NOS Sylvania 1952 6SN7GT's arriving next week. Depending upon the results with those "bad boys" driving the 7581A's, I'll likely order 2 more adapters from Deyan and switch the 7581A's into the driver's seat. I listen to more classical and acoustic music (just a smattering of classic rock) and am still debating if I follow your route with KT66 powers or bypass that step straight to KT88's. Decisions, decisions!



You can wait until next week when more users will have KT88 in place and decide later, based on their feedback, on which way to go.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 16, 2019)

I got another original GEC KT66 today. I handpicked it to match, which I now confirm fixes the imbalance and distortion of the previous pair on a conventional 1-tube-per-socket setup. Thought I'd do some more comparisons now that we're properly in business.

*EL39 vs. GEC KT66 powers shootout*

EL39 as powers: more extended FR with deeper sub-bass, treble is more smooth and liquid,  better imaging / instrument separation and PRaT
GEC KT66 more of a robust, in your face sound slightly more mid-centric by contrast. Soundstage is bigger, but at the expense of much of the instrument separation and expense of some of the titanic realism of the EL39's. 

Overall the EL39's have that special x-factor that cannot be duplicated, a 3D lifelike sound that extends wide from top to bottom, better treble quality, deeper bass and far more technically proficient at presenting individual layers of the recording (allowing each instrument to have its' own special voice in the recording). OTOH the KT66's still have their place, with a special vivid robust presentation that may actually work better for _some _recordings. I do say they compliment eachother well too.

Do note that this was with original GEC KT66's tested and in mint condition from trusted distributor Langrex in the UK. One was burned in about 150 hours and the other was fairly new, and the EL39's had about 400 hours. So unless Genalex is even better than the original design, I'd strongly recommend those interested in the KT66's to hold onto your sacred EL39's if you have 'em. Disclaimer: I've yet to try the Genalex KT66 so YMMV, and *YMMV based on preferences*. However I do recon the tables may turn a bit with the KT88. Also to be fair, the GEC KT66 is still a goliath tube, leaping beyond many dozens that came before it nevertheless.

*KT66 powers with drivers EL12 Spez vs. Valvo EL11 vs. EL39*

EL12 Spez sounds glorious as drivers - smooth, extended on both sides and actually not bright. EL39 sounds fantastic as driver - organic, more extended with deeper lows, but PRaT / dynamics are a nuance behind. Valvo EL11 for some reason seems a non-starter with KT66 as powers, sounding a bit flat and non-synergistic.

My top recommendations:
1. EL39 + Valvo EL11
2. KT66 + EL12 Spez
3. KT66 + RCA 6N7 metal tubes


----------



## barontan2418

I too am running a bit behind on the KT front however H1's combination of EL39 and KT66 as powers driven by Tung sol 7581's is certainly a combination made in heaven. I have found myself getting ahead of myself so will hold off on any other purchases (KT88) until all tubes are well run in and perhaps another tube fills the top spot. Have to admit I do have a further two KT66's on the way. My Elise is running on EL39's and black mesh Telefunken EL 11's and with my T1, Arturo Sandoval's Trumpet Evolution  has never sounded to good.


----------



## DecentLevi

arcing Sylvania 6080





EL32
 

EL3N
 

EL38
 

EL12 Spez





KT66





EL39


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> As a fellow Elise owner I appreciate your findings, @OctavianH. I just completed a very time consuming endeavor related to my profession, and am a bit behind all of you "high rollers." Still burning in my Tung Sol 7581A'a in the power position driven by Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's, perhaps 100 hours on the 7581A's.  Quite a lot to like with this current combo.,, and I also have a pair of NOS Sylvania 1952 6SN7GT's arriving next week. Depending upon the results with those "bad boys" driving the 7581A's, I'll likely order 2 more adapters from Deyan and switch the 7581A's into the driver's seat. I listen to more classical and acoustic music (just a smattering of classic rock) and am still debating if I follow your route with KT66 powers or bypass that step straight to KT88's. Decisions, decisions!



Hi LW...classical, acoustic, folk (Clannad etc.) and light rock/mixed (ELO/Mike Oldfield/Andreas Vollenweider etc.) are mostly my cup of tea, and despite being very impressed by the different combinations of 7581A/EL39/KT66, I personally find that none of them can now match the combo of Gold Lion KT66s driving GL KT88s...they were simply made for each other, and I'm sure is a trick missed by the 6L6/KT fraternity who have used them purely as power tubes (from what I can see lol ).

So if funds permit, I can only recommend you bite the bullet and give this combo a try......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> I too am running a bit behind on the KT front however H1's combination of EL39 and KT66 as powers driven by Tung sol 7581's is certainly a combination made in heaven. I have found myself getting ahead of myself so will hold off on any other purchases (KT88) until all tubes are well run in and perhaps another tube fills the top spot. Have to admit I do have a further two KT66's on the way. My Elise is running on EL39's and black mesh Telefunken EL 11's and with my T1, Arturo Sandoval's Trumpet Evolution  has never sounded to good.



Hi bt...yo, the 7581A/EL39/KT66 sure is one combo hard to beat...but as I have mentioned just now and again (!! ), even this is surpassed (unbelievably) by the KT66/KT88 combo - as per my own findings as well as @Scutey 's (re. the 88 anyway at the moment) so far. But as usual YMMV lol ...ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Well I must say as impressed as I was with the Gold Aero 6SN7GT as drivers with KT 66 as powers, have been using the Sylvania VT231's the 1947 version, very sought after today, this tube combo opens up the sound stage even more,  vocals are stronger and signal a little stronger. Very pleased with results with 6SN7GT's, tomorrow, I will be using the KenRad 6SN7GT Black 1944 edition and expect more bass and slightly less top end. With these KT66, it seems all bets are off though.


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## LoryWiv (Nov 16, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> You can wait until next week when more users will have KT88 in place and decide later, based on their feedback, on which way to go.



Excellent advice, @OctavianH. I don't want to race too fast forward and miss the journey, although with wise and trusted gurus such as @hypnos1 shining that inviting beacon from the horizon ahead it is tempting. One combo. I've not yet seen impressions on is the GL KT88 driven by TS 7581A. Perhaps I'll try those next if the Sylvania NOS 6SN7GT's don't stop me blissfully in my tracks. Then I can move on to KT66's as drivers as needed. I do feel like the (American) football quarterback marching steadily down the field only to find the goalposts have moved. Not complaining, though, this process is a lot of fun and very rewarding.



hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW...classical, acoustic, folk (Clannad etc.) and light rock/mixed (ELO/Mike Oldfield/Andreas Vollenweider etc.) are mostly my cup of tea, and despite being very impressed by the different combinations of 7581A/EL39/KT66, I personally find that none of them can now match the combo of Gold Lion KT66s driving GL KT88s...they were simply made for each other, and I'm sure is a trick missed by the 6L6/KT fraternity who have used them purely as power tubes (from what I can see lol ).
> 
> So if funds permit, I can only recommend you bite the bullet and give this combo a try......CJ


Thank you, @hypnos1. Per above I think I have my path mapped out, and likely will include the combo. you are getting such joy from. Your enthusiasm and pure delight for our amps and the options to help them bring out their best is inspiring, I look forward to your jolly posts daily which are both informative and fun!


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> Excellent advice, @OctavianH. I don't want to race too fast forward and miss the journey, although with wise and trusted gurus such as @hypnos1 shining that inviting beacon from the horizon ahead it is tempting. One combo. I've not yet seen impressions on is the GL KT88 driven by TS 7581A. Perhaps I'll try those next if the Sylvania NOS 6SN7GT's don't stop me blissfully in my tracks. Then I can move on to KT66's as drivers as needed. I do feel like the (American) football quarterback marching steadily down the field only to find the goalposts have moved. Not complaining, though, this process is a lot of fun and very rewarding.


@LoryWiv I have the Elise as well as Euphoria, and will probably have a go with GL KT88 driven by 7581A in Elise tomorrow so give me a day or two and I will give you my impressions if you are interested, it will also be well worth waiting for @OctavianH impressions as well as you can trust his judgement on tube rolling.


----------



## LoryWiv

Scutey said:


> @LoryWiv I have the Elise as well as Euphoria, and will probably have a go with GL KT88 driven by 7581A in Elise tomorrow so give me a day or two and I will give you my impressions if you are interested, it will also be well worth waiting for @OctavianH impressions as well as you can trust his judgement on tube rolling.


Perfect, I appreciate that and look forward to your impressions, @Scutey as well as the continuing input from @OctavianH et al.


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## Johnnysound (Nov 17, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> I got another original GEC KT66 today. I handpicked it to match, which I now confirm fixes the imbalance and distortion of the previous pair on a conventional 1-tube-per-socket setup. Thought I'd do some more comparisons now that we're properly in business.
> 
> *EL39 vs. GEC KT66 powers shootout*
> 
> ...



Wow DL ! Do you mean you are using original, NOS, GEC KT66 ?  Well, those pieces cost a lot of money...dark or clear glass ?  By all accounts the new Genalex are “close” to the sound of the clear glass originals...but not quite equal.  The “x factor” that you mentioned.  In my experience, good reproductions of “classic” tubes tend to sound a bit clearer, extended and not “mid centric”, but are less holographic and natural sounding than the originals.

Absolutely agreed with your choice of EL39/Valvo EL11 as a top combo. Above all, there is great *synergy* here,  (don’t know why, but the tubes are made one for the other)...and  the intensely _deep _insight into the music of this combo, with a fully burned-in pair of EL39s is admirable. Do not have KT66s yet for comparison, but certainly KT77s sound great as powers in Euforia with a vibrant, open sound...and even better as drivers of the EL39s !!  The mix of a “new” tube with a “classic” one gives a different sound perspective: nice dynamics, full detail, extended highs, bass and the sweetness of the classic...however, with the Valvo EL11s  the combo sounds  more refined and holographic.

In my system, of course (Lol).  I recently totally “germanized” my power amp with TFK drivers and RFT EL12N powers, (EL12 spez soon)  to (hopefully) increase linearity, neutrality...and the piece is now, well,  very “fast” sounding_, _delivering the _*tightest*, _most precise and “bouncy” bass ever. And not only the bass: the music flows with such a clarity, purity and definition as to sound above all the power amp tubes that I know of, save perhaps for the EL39s, (with a very different, “darker” presentation).  I am hooked with this sound.  The EL12Ns are wholly different animals as  power pentodes than as triodes in Euforia...I allways liked their transparency, but at full heat they really awake and deliver the goods.   Anyway, now the amp is not “euphonic” at all, maybe analytic with just a trace of “warmth”...Euforia (preamp) loves it, and well, a combo such as EL39/EL11 balances the sound beautifully...


----------



## DecentLevi

Johnnysound said:


> Wow DL ! Do you mean you are using original, NOS, GEC KT66 ?  Well, those pieces cost a lot of money...dark or clear glass ?  By all accounts the new Genalex are “close” to the sound of the clear glass originals...but not quite equal.  The “x factor” that you mentioned.  In my experience, good reproductions of “classic” tubes tend to sound a bit clearer, extended and not “mid centric”, but are less holographic and natural sounding than the originals.
> 
> Absolutely agreed with your choice of EL39/Valvo EL11 as a top combo. Above all, there is great *synergy* here,  (don’t know why, but the tubes are made one for the other)...and  the intensely _deep _insight into the music of this combo, with a fully burned-in pair of EL39s is admirable. Do not have KT66s yet for comparison, but certainly KT77s sound great as powers in Euforia with a vibrant, open sound...and even better as drivers of the EL39s !!  The mix of a “new” tube with a “classic” one gives a different sound perspective: nice dynamics, full detail, extended highs, bass and the sweetness of the classic...however, with the Valvo EL11s  the combo sounds  more refined and holographic.
> 
> In my system, of course (Lol).  I recently totally “germanized” my power amp with TFK drivers and RFT EL12N powers, (EL12 spez soon)  to (hopefully) increase linearity, neutrality...and the piece is now, well, blazingly _fast, _delivering the _*tightest*, _most precise and “bouncy” bass ever. I am hooked with this sound.  The EL12Ns are wholly different animals as full power pentodes than as triodes in Euforia...I allways liked their transparency, but at full heat they really awake and deliver the goods.   Anyway, now the amp is not “euphonic” at all, maybe analytic with just a trace of “warmth”...Euforia (preamp) loves it, and well, a combo such as EL39/EL11 balances the sound beautifully...


 
Yup these were mine above, except I replaced the one on the right with one that matched better. About $450 for both including shipping. I got these for my upcoming amp before I even knew of the Genalex, but I prefer the finest things when possible. (who knows maybe Genalex KT66 are better). The signature is definitely not mid-centric; however when put against the EL39 it did give me the impression leaning that direction. I really prefer the EL39 on the Euforia, but YMMV based on preference, tube condition and things could be different on another amp. The KT77's sound like a top performer from your words too, and it looks like most of those are new production.


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## OctavianH (Nov 17, 2019)

Around 30 hours here, and I had "ups" and "downs" regarding the sound quality but now everything seems more stable.






I have a feeling that the glow increased in intensity, even if this does not make too much sense, but anyway these are beautiful in the dark:






I wonder if they will continue to improve, and how much. Anyway, for the lucky ones who own or ordered original GEC / Osram / other vintage KT66 / KT88 please share your impressions. I start to look more and more to this box:






Ebay Link here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-x-GEC...566814?hash=item1cdbe9091e:g:FtQAAOSw7qRdrtNZ

Too bad we are adults and Santa does not come to us anymore. I would not refuse such a gift


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## mordy

You have to ask h1 to help you if you want them - the seller only wants to sell them in the UK and prefers local pick-up.


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## OctavianH

I just look at them, I am not willing to spend 2500 EUR at the moment for those. At least not before I will try the Genalex new production KT88 and discuss with people who own both new/old ones and can make a comparison.


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## Scutey (Nov 17, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Around 30 hours here, and I had "ups" and "downs" regarding the sound quality but now everything seems more stable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear the tubes are settling down, they should keep on improving for a while yet. That's incredible to see so many KT88, it's just a pity they are  £2395.00 and not £239.50!

ps great pics btw, and just wait till you see the glow from x2 KT88 and x2 KT66!.


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## connieflyer

My 88 should be here tomorrow and I'm very anxious to see how they sound what the pair of 66 is drivers. I was running a quad of 66 has and liked it quite a bit, should be interesting to see the results with a pair of each


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## hypnos1 (Nov 17, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Around 30 hours here, and I had "ups" and "downs" regarding the sound quality but now everything seems more stable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice pics OH...and yes, those KT66s will indeed keep improving - quite a bit, actually (but won't need the full 150+ hours, thank goodness! ).

As for those KT88s...not a bad buy for someone prepared to fork out with a view to selling them off at a profit (perhaps!), but not for me I'm afraid.

And besides, although ancient tubes may be desirable - but very possibly more unreliable now than (some) modern production tubes, I personally don't think the crazy prices asked for old KT66s and 88s are matched by a _significant _improvement in sound (for us!)...for two (Edit..er, _three!_) main reasons :

1. I suspect that with our amps not being specifically configured for these tubes, performance increases will probably therefore be limited.

2. A good few in the 6L6/KT camp have stated that even for 'proper' use, the reissue Genalex Gold Lions in particular are not _too_ far off the originals...the old Genalex being regarded as right near/at the top of the tree lol!

3. The reissue GL KT88 especially looks to be of an exceptional specification, as mentioned previously and which, when driven by the perhaps slightly more 'lowly' GL KT66 I'm sure lifts the performance exponentially...for far less than those silly original 66 prices lol!! 

And so fear not folks...save your $$$$$£££££ and aim for the GL KT66/88 combo - you will not find its performance lacking in any way whatsoever. The opposite, in fact...it _excels_ in all!! ...Take my word for it (after _extensive_ testing - which requires _many_ hours/days for _each_ tube type...do the math for_ multiple _comparisons lol!! )...

Whatever...ENJOY and HAPPY LISTENING!...and g'night from CJ...


----------



## connieflyer

One last tube roll, before KT88's arrive.  Using the PSvanes that came stock with Euforia as drivers and KT66 as powers, and I saved the best for last.  This is an outstanding combo, bass is deep and tight, piano keys have that instantaneous on and of, no ringing sharp and melodeous, if you have the time to roll these in, give it a try, almost like the amp was built for this!


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## hypnos1 (Nov 18, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> One last tube roll, before KT88's arrive.  Using the PSvanes that came stock with Euforia as drivers and KT66 as powers, and I saved the best for last.  This is an outstanding combo, bass is deep and tight, piano keys have that instantaneous on and of, no ringing sharp and melodeous, if you have the time to roll these in, give it a try, almost like the amp was built for this!



Hi cf..now that's one in the cap for the PsVanes, given its competitors of yours mon ami lol!  Mind you, I have always thought the CV181 TII an extremely good tube if the accompanying gear is good. So it looks like you've done some very useful ground prep in readiness for those beauties to arrive today...(I sincerely hope they _do_, ol' buddy!! ).

Anyway, after your egging me on for even more diatribe(!!) @LoryWiv , and thinking I had just about said all that needs to be said by me on the GL K66/88 combo wink,with more hours still on mine, I simply have to regale y'all yet again after last night's encounter with Andreas Vollenweider's amazing 'Caverna Magica' album...(so you can blame LW, guys!! ).

Although my love-child combo of mesh-plate EL11/EL39 combo did indeed make this work sound 'magical', highlighting the extraordinary feat of holographic sound engineering, I wasn't prepared for last night's session. This KT66/88 combo showed the production to be even more incredible...Whereas I normally listen to just a few tracks and move on, I was totally, utterly transfixed from beginning to end. The masterly positioning of sounds in all dimensions was, to say the least, mesmerising/hypnotic. Not even my previous #1 combo came anywhere near this otherworldly presentation. Any niggling doubt as to the superiority of this Genalex GL KT66/88 combination is now irrevocably dismissed from my mind...for me and in my system, of course. I just hope that your own experience guys comes at least half way to mine lol .

OK, diatribe over...let me get some breakfast..._please!_ BFN...CJ


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## connieflyer

KT 88's are in the house and warming up now


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## connieflyer

First listen, tried with headphones first as that what I was just using before this came in.  Definition right out of the box was an improvement using the same music I had just listened to.  The PSvanes were good but these were obviously better.  Now switching from headphones to Anthem receiver another obvious improvement . I think for one thing, the 72 hour pre burn in helped here quite a bit. Backstreet Boys on now and the bass is driving and vocals very clear no distortion at all.  Celine Dion's Falling into you is room filling and surrounding me with love!


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## leftside

Great thread you guys have here. I too am a big fan of the KT88 and KT66 tubes. If you're going after the vintage versions from the 40's - 60's and onwards there are a few things to watch out for. Search for "getter" in this link and you'll see what I mean:
https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm.

The good news is the KT88 condition is quite easy to identify just by looking at it, if you know what to look for. A few of the KT88 in that post/link a few posts back are near end of life.

The KT66 were produced during the war with a larger ST shape. Later (after 1945) had the more common shape we typically see today. I think KT88 started production sometime around 1954. The most desirable of these tubes are from first production to the late 1960's. 

Did you know the very first KT88 version had a brown base and different glass shape? Good luck finding those  The next version had the metal base and same different glass shape. Also very rare. The next version had the later glass shape we most see today, but with single top getters (these tubes sound great!). The later versions had the three getters (one on top, and two on the sides.

Happy listening fellow headfi'ers.


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## leftside

connieflyer said:


> First listen, tried with headphones first as that what I was just using before this came in.  Definition right out of the box was an improvement using the same music I had just listened to.  The PSvanes were good but these were obviously better.  Now switching from headphones to Anthem receiver another obvious improvement . I think for one thing, the 72 hour pre burn in helped here quite a bit. Backstreet Boys on now and the bass is driving and vocals very clear no distortion at all.  Celine Dion's Falling into you is room filling and surrounding me with love!


Backstreet Boys and Celine Dion? Unsubscribe lol. Just kidding  Enjoy the music... even Celine Dion


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## connieflyer

Music is where you find it.  It takes all kinds to make you whole.  Went classical after this, so maybe I should Unsubscribe


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> First listen, tried with headphones first as that what I was just using before this came in.  Definition right out of the box was an improvement using the same music I had just listened to.  The PSvanes were good but these were obviously better.  Now switching from headphones to Anthem receiver another obvious improvement . I think for one thing, the 72 hour pre burn in helped here quite a bit. Backstreet Boys on now and the bass is driving and vocals very clear no distortion at all.  Celine Dion's Falling into you is room filling and surrounding me with love!



Glad your KT88s arrived safe and sound, and that you seem to be liking them already cf...and they will get better still, even with that generous pre-burn in lol . Looking forward to how you find this KT66/88 combo with a good selection of your favourites...once again my own are sounding like never before. These tubes are truly superb......BFN (zzzzzzz)... and enjoy the rest of your day's listening, D...



leftside said:


> Great thread you guys have here. I too am a big fan of the KT88 and KT66 tubes. If you're going after the vintage versions from the 40's - 60's and onwards there are a few things to watch out for. Search for "getter" in this link and you'll see what I mean:
> https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm.
> 
> The good news is the KT88 condition is quite easy to identify just by looking at it, if you know what to look for. A few of the KT88 in that post/link a few posts back are near end of life.
> ...



Hi leftside...thanks for looking in and showing interest in our 'crazy' ventures with an amp(s) that was never actually configured for these wonderful tubes...(still can't believe it lol! . As you may well have gathered by now, this reissue Genalex GL KT66/88 combo has taken me totally by surprise...and continues to do so with each day that passes lol! 

And thanks for the info on Golden Oldies. But at the usual prices they go for (for good ones!), I'm afraid I myself will just have to keep an eye out for any that go under the radar! Besides, these reissue Genalex are _extremely_ good...the specification and construction of the 88 especially is truly superb....BFN...CJ


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## leftside

hypnos1 said:


> I'm afraid I myself will just have to keep an eye out for any that go under the radar! Besides, these reissue Genalex are _extremely_ good...the specification and construction of the 88 especially is truly superb....BFN...CJ


Under the radar is how I picked up mine. The new production are indeed very good. If the prices of the original KT88 continue to increase, then I'll switch back to the Russian Gold Lions as well in my amps.


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## cddc

leftside said:


> Backstreet Boys and Celine Dion? Unsubscribe lol. Just kidding  Enjoy the music... even Celine Dion




What's wrong with the boy bands and Celine Dion........they're very good intro to music for the adolescent...


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## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf..now that's one in the cap for the PsVanes, given its competitors of yours mon ami lol!  Mind you, I have always thought the CV181 TII an extremely good tube if the accompanying gear is good. So it looks like you've done some very useful ground prep in readiness for those beauties to arrive today...(I sincerely hope they _do_, ol' buddy!! ).
> 
> Anyway, after your egging me on for even more diatribe(!!) @LoryWiv , and thinking I had just about said all that needs to be said by me on the GL K66/88 combo wink,with more hours still on mine, I simply have to regale y'all yet again after last night's encounter with Andreas Vollenweider's amazing 'Caverna Magica' album...(so you can blame LW, guys!! )



To badly paraphrase an old song: "If loving @hypnos1's posts is wrong, I don't want to be right." Always enjoyable, good sir, and your enthusiasm is great fun and infectious!


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## LoryWiv

leftside said:


> Backstreet Boys and Celine Dion? Unsubscribe lol. Just kidding  Enjoy the music... even Celine Dion



I bet if we are honest we all have our guilty pleasures. I am generally a classical snob but boy the occasional rock anthem still gives a tingle. They used Boston's "Fourplay - Longtime" (1976) in the season premiere episode of Ray Donovan on HBO yesterday (yes, another guilty pleasure) and it's been in my head all day!


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## DecentLevi (Nov 19, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> I bet if we are honest we all have our guilty pleasures. I am generally a classical snob but boy the occasional rock anthem still gives a tingle. They used Boston's "Fourplay - Longtime" (1976) in the season premiere episode of Ray Donovan on HBO yesterday (yes, another guilty pleasure) and it's been in my head all day!


I'm an electro snob and anti-country unless the mastering is superb. I love world music, retro pop and rock too but sometimes find myself diggin' J-pop... but K-pop... nope!


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## connieflyer

The problem with people that criticize musical pieces is that they fail to recogonize the value of different genre's and sound engineers ability to combine different sounds that allow you to decide if any part of your system is not up to par. I expect nothing less of some


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## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> The problem with people that criticize musical pieces is that they fail to recogonize the value of different genre's and sound engineers ability to combine different sounds that allow you to decide if any part of your system is not up to par. I expect nothing less of some


AFAIK, the dual goals of this hobby are to enjoy music and to quest for the best sound signature our equipment can deliver. There is no place for seriously critiquing another's preferences. A little light-hearted jest maybe, but always with respect for our colleagues on this forum.

On another note, if anyone is interested in a different flavor I've posted some preliminary impressions of NOS 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT's as drivers in Elise *here*. Amazing how versatile our amps are and responsive to tube changes.


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## hypnos1

Many thanks for your encouraging words @LoryWiv ...along with others' appreciation, it makes all the trials and tribulations that go hand in hand with the excitement of new discoveries that much less 'traumatic' lol!! 

And while I'm here, may I share yet another day's revelation - for me at least, and one I truly regret can't be enjoyed by most in this hobby of ours...viz the gains to be had from dispensing with a tube's weak links, ie. the interface between its wires and the next step in sound amplification - *pins and accompanying solder!*  (not to mention any adapter(s) that may be needed). 

In keeping with my adopted mantra '_the best connector is *no*_ connector', my possibly disaster-prone habit of cutting a tube's pins to gain direct access to its wires and then using new UP-OCC silver and copper wires for converting to a new base is once again paying dividends with my Genalex GL KT66s and 88s...and well worth the risk lol!!  But I'm sure the extra 'magic ingredient' is when I don't actually solder the new wires to the new pins...I bend them so as to make direct metal-to-metal contact with the amp's socket (as I do with the tube's wires before _securing _with solder)...so, no solder once again to degrade the signal.

The result therefore is, I'm certain, an unparalleled performance from (all!) tubes with the inherent 'choke' in their signal delivery courtesy of pins and solder...the actual degree depending upon a system's resolution of course! 

This is, however, just my own take on this subject...but borne out for me at least in my own experiments for some years now....

A couple of pics of my current status, with 1x KT66 driver and 2x KT88s that have survived open heart surgery...the second KT66 to follow tomorrow, hopefully...(fingers crossed once more lol!!)...:




 

Said 'magic ingredient'...I just _love_ (and _crave_) direct metal to metal contact lol! (But easier said than done, very often! )....CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Nicely done CJ, I see you have not lost your touch.  Should sound as good as it gets.  Beyond what I am willing to attemp, though.  Next step for me is to purchase another burned in pair of KT88's so I have a back up for both 66 and 88's.  Have well over 100 hours on them both now and the sound is the best I have heard on the Senn 800.  The increase in bass and mid range warmth, along with all the detail that is available through the 800 is the best now, not interested in any new phones or amps. All that is left to do is make a listing of all my tubes and put them up for sale, including the fresh quad of 7581a's with over 200 hour on them, totally burned in.  Have never been happier with the Senn 800 as with this setup. And driving the Anthem MRX 720 amp is soooo gooooodd. Keep up the good work CJ I appreciate all you have done for us.


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## hypnos1

As an adjunct to my last post - to try and avoid indigestion lol! , I should add that the increase in performance has been right across the board, from the expressive voices of Mim Grey in 'Purple Sky', Basia in 'Astrud' and that of the incomparable IMHO Joan Baez in 'Diamonds and Rust'; thru the (extra!) enhanced bass lines and (mildly!) screaming electric guitar in Brent Cobb's 'Black Crow' to the massed brass/timpani/reeds/woodwind/flute/glockenspiel/strings etc. etc. In all these differing performances, what stands out clearly  - along with those qualities I've mentioned before re. this GL KT66/88 combo, is a masterful _authority_ and command of delivery, regardless of whether delicacy or sheer dynamism is called for. Nothing seems to faze these tubes whatsoever...hosted by Euforia, everything remains under total control, without being in any way clinical. I remain spellbound by this combination in my own setup...more so than ever before....

ps. By the way, this setup does wonders for the HD650, which I use just while burning in. At first, I was rather surprised at just how good they sounded...but when I plug in my Meze Empyreans, I realise they (the Senns) are nowhere near in the same league. The difference brings great vindication to my extravagance...not to mention solace to my poor wallet lol!! ...BFN...


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Nicely done CJ, I see you have not lost your touch.  Should sound as good as it gets.  Beyond what I am willing to attemp, though.  Next step for me is to purchase another burned in pair of KT88's so I have a back up for both 66 and 88's.  Have well over 100 hours on them both now and the sound is the best I have heard on the Senn 800.  The increase in bass and mid range warmth, along with all the detail that is available through the 800 is the best now, not interested in any new phones or amps. All that is left to do is make a listing of all my tubes and put them up for sale, including the fresh quad of 7581a's with over 200 hour on them, totally burned in.  Have never been happier with the Senn 800 as with this setup. And driving the Anthem MRX 720 amp is soooo gooooodd. Keep up the good work CJ I appreciate all you have done for us.



Thanks cf...and glad to hear this combo pleases not only your good self, but the HD800 also lol!!  Plus, nice that your speaker system also gives it a warm welcome...haven't had a chance to try it with my own yet (been too busy!! ). But will try to banish the good lady for a couple of hours tomorrow...er, correction, no can do - that last KT66 has to get on the operating table! ...BFN...CJ


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## connieflyer

Well we do have to have our priorities after all! At least doing surgery on that tube will bring it into compliance with the others that you have done, which will make an even more pleasing sound running through years stereo amplifier as a preamp. So cut away my friend, just be careful!


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## DecentLevi (Nov 19, 2019)

The way I see it, there are two paths towards actualization of top tier sonic reproduction: Hacking (rewiring) your current system to get every potential ounce of performance from it, or going towards the highest tier system. Personally I'm going with the ladder option, not feeling comfortable enough to bypass/ modify so many connections on the Euforia / DAC / headphones. It will certainly cost a good deal more, but this route affords me more flexibility in future customization not being tied to specific interconnects, headphones, etc.. I may not have a 100% lossless connection with the use of many connectors in the chain, but the added oomph from the beefier setup may more than make up for that and I may gain an even higher level result in the end. Certainly I would be interested in hearing a super customized / hacked Euforia and I do not proclaim it's inferiority over anything until trying first-hand. And as a plus all of my components remain in standard working order to possibly be sold as well. Nothing at all against the pioneering methods of H1 / Colin, just a different preference, and the thought of a brand new rig excites me quite well also.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well we do have to have our priorities after all! At least doing surgery on that tube will bring it into compliance with the others that you have done, which will make an even more pleasing sound running through years stereo amplifier as a preamp. So cut away my friend, just be careful!



Hi cf. Although anxious to see how the GL KT66/88 combo sounds through the Vincent and Tannoy XT6fs, I did indeed wield the scalpel once more...with due diligence and care, as you instructed lol! And I'm glad/relieved! to say all went well and now all four tubes are running at full throttle (bar today's that only has a few hours post-surgery ).

But even so, the extra clarity; precision; instrument separation/positioning within a 3 dimensional stage, and increased tonal range across the FR are already apparent...more so than expected, actually . I put this down to the innate qualities/potential of these KT tubes - over and above any I have experimented with up until now. And this welcome surprise is just one of the aspects I personally relish in taking 'the road less travelled', as opposed to the easier one involving the need to spend a lot more money to get a similar result...as I shall expand upon in my next post in reply to DL's. 

Nonetheless, I hope that you and other trailblazers are continuing to discover the (not inconsiderable) merits of these Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66s and KT88s...WELL DONE I say to you all!! ...CJ

ps. Hope to give the Tannoys a blast tomorrow...but will need to bribe the better half somehow... (could it actually be worth sending her to the shops with my credit card? Or is that a step too far lol!! . As Dickens's Fagin - as played by Ron Moody in 'Oliver' would say - 'I think I'd better think it out again!! ).


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> The way I see it, there are two paths towards actualization of top tier sonic reproduction: Hacking (rewiring) your current system to get every potential ounce of performance from it, or going towards the highest tier system. Personally I'm going with the ladder option, not feeling comfortable enough to bypass/ modify so many connections on the Euforia / DAC / headphones. It will certainly cost a good deal more, but this route affords me more flexibility in future customization not being tied to specific interconnects, headphones, etc.. I may not have a 100% lossless connection with the use of many connectors in the chain, but the added oomph from the beefier setup may more than make up for that and I may gain an even higher level result in the end. Certainly I would be interested in hearing a super customized / hacked Euforia and I do not proclaim it's inferiority over anything until trying first-hand. And as a plus all of my components remain in standard working order to possibly be sold as well. Nothing at all against the pioneering methods of H1 / Colin, just a different preference, and the thought of a brand new rig excites me quite well also.



Well, DL...as in all walks of life, there's the _easy_ way and the _not_ so easy way of doing things lol! 

Obviously, again as is usually the case, one can take the shortcut and, if one can afford it, _pay _a premium for better quality. However, in hobbies such as ours especially, monetary considerations are just one factor in the scheme of things..._challenge; research; experimentation; pursuit of skills/knowledge, _and the satisfaction that comes from successful outcomes are of equal, if not greater, importance IMHO. There are those risk takers who innovate, and those who attempt subsequently to 'build' upon such groundwork...sometimes with limited success, but often with negative consequences due to lack of understanding/knowledge of the basic principles involved. It is indeed then much safer to simply pay someone else to assist in reaching a higher level...but this certainly doesn't contain any meaningful portion of _achievement_ lol! 

Since starting along the 'modifying' route with my LD MKIV SE - but only re. tubes - I personally have been enthralled by the improvements that can come from _relatively_ straightforward procedures (after _plenty_ of practice, and with basic skills) in other areas of our systems also... especially at great cost savings! I realise that certain of them obviously can make some equipment less 'flexible', but most can in fact be reversed if necessary (just requiring a bit more _effort!_).

However, my main point re. such an approach to our hobby in particular, is that unexpected discoveries can be made that also benefit others in the process, and which simply add to the satisfaction derived therefrom. If I hadn't persevered with tube experimentation for example, I and others would never have known the possibilities for taking our amps to even higher levels...at a cost far below what would normally be involved in the_ commercial_ marketplace. And for me at least, this satisfaction ranks very high indeed in the list of priorities lol ...CJ

ps. There is in fact of course a _third_ and probably superior path..._to build one's own amp completely from scratch!  _I salivate at the thought of being able to choose _precisely_ which circuit design/capacitors/resistors/wiring/functions etc to employ, let alone the exterior design. And if I were 20 years younger, would jump at the challenge! ...


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## barontan2418

Well what to say, I'm not quite up to the full 66/88 set-up at present. Still awaiting second KT88 but with 2 x KT66's in the driving seat and 1x KT66 plus KT88's in the power position the true prowess of my HD800 has finally presented itself. Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but having just listened to the full 2 disc of The Essential Chieftains I was truly amazed, In certain tracks the full soundstage is filled left to right top to bottom a total  wall if music and with tubes  that are not yet anywhere nearly burned in. And to think I was hesitating about purchasing KT88's being so happy with 7581, EL39 + KT66 set-up.


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## connieflyer

Congratulations I'm finding how well these tube sound with the Sennheiser 800. When I went from a quad of kt66 2 a pair of 66 and a pair of 88 that is when the Sennheiser 800 really started to shine. I have never heard these sound so well before. This is my second pair I've had them for 3 or 4 years now and this is the best I have ever sounded. When you get the final 88 and things are burned in nicely I am sure you will be very impressed with the sound as well


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Well what to say, I'm not quite up to the full 66/88 set-up at present. Still awaiting second KT88 but with 2 x KT66's in the driving seat and 1x KT66 plus KT88's in the power position the true prowess of my HD800 has finally presented itself. Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but having just listened to the full 2 disc of The Essential Chieftains I was truly amazed, In certain tracks the full soundstage is filled left to right top to bottom a total  wall if music and with tubes  that are not yet anywhere nearly burned in. And to think I was hesitating about purchasing KT88's being so happy with 7581, EL39 + KT66 set-up.



Well, what can I also say bt, but..._music to my ears lol!_ (er, sorry!! ). And encouraging words to take with me to my bed...(hate the thought I might be tempting folks to spend their hard earned money to no avail...). I'm still pleasantly surprised by how good these tubes sound so early in proceedings, but they keep on improving for a good few more hours yet.... And just wait 'til you have that second KT88 in place...a wondrous tube indeed.

ps. And notice how cool the amp stays? It's hardly even ticking over lol!...a very welcome bonus indeed IMO...BFN


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## leftside

hypnos1 said:


> ps. There is in fact of course a _third_ and probably superior path..._to build one's own amp completely from scratch!  _I salivate at the thought of being able to choose _precisely_ which circuit design/capacitors/resistors/wiring/functions etc to employ, let alone the exterior design. And if I were 20 years younger, would jump at the challenge! ...


Or get someone to build it for you, if you have a good idea of what you're looking for. Everyone knows about Glenn's amps, but I recently had this amp built for me. I have a multi-page spreadsheet of all the parts used and suppliers - even down to the wiring and solder used. It's a little crazy, but the guy also builds simpler/cheaper amps and assures me the sound quality is just as good.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/


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## Dobrescu George

So... If anyone is wondering, you can use Euforia as a Pre-AMP for some TOTL Tune Audio speakers, I was with a friend and we tested the migthy Euforia as a Pre, and we were both blown away!  

More impressions and details to come really soon!


----------



## OctavianH

leftside said:


> Or get someone to build it for you, if you have a good idea of what you're looking for. Everyone knows about Glenn's amps, but I recently had this amp built for me. I have a multi-page spreadsheet of all the parts used and suppliers - even down to the wiring and solder used. It's a little crazy, but the guy also builds simpler/cheaper amps and assures me the sound quality is just as good.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/



If the information is not confidential (since it is a product which is being sold should not be), at what price you bought that monster amp? I am not interested in an exact estimation, just wanted to know in which "league" is positioning.


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## hypnos1

leftside said:


> Or get someone to build it for you, if you have a good idea of what you're looking for. Everyone knows about Glenn's amps, but I recently had this amp built for me. I have a multi-page spreadsheet of all the parts used and suppliers - even down to the wiring and solder used. It's a little crazy, but the guy also builds simpler/cheaper amps and assures me the sound quality is just as good.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/



Yes indeed leftside...but we're back to having to _pay_ a good deal of money for any such custom built beauties lol!  Fine, if you have the funds...and the _achievement _is _his!!_ .
Me, I'm more than happy with my Euforia...especially now with the (increasingly) impressive KT66/KT88 combo taking it to another level entirely. And listening now to my setup feeding the Vincent SS amp and Tannoy XT6f speakers, any residual urge to have a go at building my own creation is slipping away fast lol!! 

ps. That sure is one heck of a custom setup you have there...dread to think how much it cost though! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Dobrescu George said:


> So... If anyone is wondering, you can use Euforia as a Pre-AMP for some TOTL Tune Audio speakers, I was with a friend and we tested the migthy Euforia as a Pre, and we were both blown away!
> 
> More impressions and details to come really soon!



Hi DG.

A good few of us have already discovered Euforia's prowess as pre-amp - in both tube and SS power amp setups...quite stunning, actually (*especially* with the KT66s driving KT88 powers...unbelievable in fact lol! ).


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## hypnos1

Well @connieflyer ...your confidence in my trying the KT66/88 combo as pre-amp to my Vincent and Tannoy speakers is vindicated *BIG* time, mon ami. When I should be continuing with more bench work, I'm glued to my seat here listening to Ray Daveluy's Organ Recital in 192kHz 24bit. The depth of sound is invading every part of my being - especially my head after Bach's Toccata and Fugue lol!!  And before that Loreena McKennitt's exotic Eastern instruments in 'An Ancient Muse' were simply..._exotic!!_...tones I've never heard before. If these KT tubes (and Euforia) keep bringing me more of these goodies, I don't know how many more surprises I can handle at my delicate stage of life lol!  (But I'm sure I'll cope, somehow or other!...).

Anyway, my coffee is getting cold while Mike Oldfield's 'Elements' is now playing...just can't move at the moment still (this could get rather serious, D!! ). BFN...CJ


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## hypnos1

Me again @connieflyer ...and all those using our amps as pre amp. After some more different tracks (now from 'The Fureys' Finest' compilation), I can safely say that the leap in performance from having the KT66/88 combo in situ is a good deal more noticeable from my speaker setup than even the Empyreans. Now I _know_ I'm very close to having those men in white jackets knocking on my door...never expected such a transformation ...???!!!...(better get back to the bench lol...)...


----------



## connieflyer

CJ, I know what you mean, and glad your system is responding to the pre amp, Vincent setup.  It is uncanny how much better my system sounds with the Euforia as a pre amp.  Going back over older hi res files, I settled on some Mannheim Steamroller albums.   One just came on just now, and I was paying attention to what I was writing enjoying the music at a level that I would call divorce level, and the song Teardrops Raindrops came on, it starts out with a massive crack of thunder, truly made me jump.  Had to stop what I was doing and replay that opening. Amazing clarity.  That is the biggest difference I have found, the clarity of each individual instrument, not jumping out at you but presented in the correct position on the sound stage in the correct quantities. Well recorded pieces will make an impression that has you sorting out more music instead of "doing" things like chores you need to do . I, personally can not thank you enough for going down this KT path.  As you know I was starting to look around for a new headphone amp, but after listening to several, found them all pretty much to be a good match with what I wanted. But after jumping on the KT bandwagon one last time, I have stopped looking at other gear.  This setup will indeed take me a long way to musical nirvana.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> CJ, I know what you mean, and glad your system is responding to the pre amp, Vincent setup.  It is uncanny how much better my system sounds with the Euforia as a pre amp.  Going back over older hi res files, I settled on some Mannheim Steamroller albums.   One just came on just now, and I was paying attention to what I was writing enjoying the music at a level that I would call divorce level, and the song Teardrops Raindrops came on, it starts out with a massive crack of thunder, truly made me jump.  Had to stop what I was doing and replay that opening. Amazing clarity.  That is the biggest difference I have found, the clarity of each individual instrument, not jumping out at you but presented in the correct position on the sound stage in the correct quantities. Well recorded pieces will make an impression that has you sorting out more music instead of "doing" things like chores you need to do . I, personally can not thank you enough for going down this KT path.  As you know I was starting to look around for a new headphone amp, but after listening to several, found them all pretty much to be a good match with what I wanted. But after jumping on the KT bandwagon one last time, I have stopped looking at other gear.  This setup will indeed take me a long way to musical nirvana.


Hi cf,
For fun I played Teardrops (YouTube) and it sounds like lightning and rain all right. Curious if you can hear what I hear at around 36 sec (very short lasting sound a second or so)?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ, I know what you mean, and glad your system is responding to the pre amp, Vincent setup.  It is uncanny how much better my system sounds with the Euforia as a pre amp.  Going back over older hi res files, I settled on some Mannheim Steamroller albums.   One just came on just now, and I was paying attention to what I was writing enjoying the music at a level that I would call divorce level, and the song Teardrops Raindrops came on, it starts out with a massive crack of thunder, truly made me jump.  Had to stop what I was doing and replay that opening. Amazing clarity.  That is the biggest difference I have found, the clarity of each individual instrument, not jumping out at you but presented in the correct position on the sound stage in the correct quantities. Well recorded pieces will make an impression that has you sorting out more music instead of "doing" things like chores you need to do . I, personally can not thank you enough for going down this KT path.  As you know I was starting to look around for a new headphone amp, but after listening to several, found them all pretty much to be a good match with what I wanted. But after jumping on the KT bandwagon one last time, I have stopped looking at other gear.  This setup will indeed take me a long way to musical nirvana.



Yo cf...I'm definitely gonna have to find more time for speaker listening from now on lol...even though 'solo' time is somewhat limited these days alas! And no chance of a 'Man Cave' either . Never mind, going back to the Empyreans brings its own magic, of course.

And yes, that increased clarity benefits many areas of the overall sound, bringing further insight into the performance. Plus a smoothness that is less 'buttery', more a PTFE-enhanced super-lubricant lol!! 

ps... I can only imagine what your tower speakers made of that 'crack'!! (lucky you not to have to worry about the neighbours, D...).


----------



## connieflyer

mordy said:


> Hi cf,
> For fun I played Teardrops (YouTube) and it sounds like lightning and rain all right. Curious if you can hear what I hear at around 36 sec (very short lasting sound a second or so)?


Hi Mordy,  I re ran the file a couple of times but could not detect anything out of the ordinary.  I wonder if it was something on the you tube version.   the ones I have are all hi def flac files so maybe it was something with the uploaded file. What was it you heard, anyways?


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 21, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yo cf...I'm definitely gonna have to find more time for speaker listening from now on lol...even though 'solo' time is somewhat limited these days alas! And no chance of a 'Man Cave' either . Never mind, going back to the Empyreans brings its own magic, of course.
> 
> And yes, that increased clarity benefits many areas of the overall sound, bringing further insight into the performance. Plus a smoothness that is less 'buttery', more a PTFE-enhanced super-lubricant lol!!
> 
> ps... I can only imagine what your tower speakers made of that 'crack'!! (lucky you not to have to worry about the neighbours, D...).



I am glad you had a chance to check out the pre amp with your system, it really made a great impression with me. Well, I put that on again tonight, and did not spare the volume know!  And it is a very realistic sound to be sure. Will really get your attention.  One thing I really like about the Mannheim, is his use of the Oboe, especially the Lupophone and hecklephone ,which is my favorite instrument after piano.  Some of the notes that are held on some of the songs that are held are just amazing.  You might like to try this piece.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Hi Mordy,  I re ran the file a couple of times but could not detect anything out of the ordinary.  I wonder if it was something on the you tube version.   the ones I have are all hi def flac files so maybe it was something with the uploaded file. What was it you heard, anyways?


Hi cf,
I heard what sounds like birds twittering very briefly and was wondering if you can hear it too. Rechecked YouTube and heard it at 14 seconds as well (both times in the right channel). It struck me as odd that birds were twittering during lightning and thunder....
It is very subtle but I think that I am hearing it.


----------



## connieflyer

They were scared by the noise?


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## mordy (Nov 21, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> They were scared by the noise?


I am curious of your set-up has the resolution that I perceive with my amp - I don't think that I am imagining it.


----------



## connieflyer

I played the song again a couple of times and did not hear anything like that.  I also checked this you tube and did not hear it either.


----------



## connieflyer

This is my system Anthem MRX 720 receiver, SVS Ultra Towers,SVS Ultra Center PSB S10 dipole surround SVSPC12 - Plus subwoofer  Asus Essesence II audio card Coax out


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi cf,
> For fun I played Teardrops (YouTube) and it sounds like lightning and rain all right. Curious if you can hear what I hear at around 36 sec (very short lasting sound a second or so)?



Hi mordy.

Curious to try it for myself, and I must admit I sincerely hope your system _can_ reproduce this background effect...even my HP Spectre laptop shows up the birdsong clearly at 14 to 17 secs; 24 to 27 secs; 35 to 38/9 secs; 50 to 53 secs. And with my Empyreans it's also there from the start for a few seconds.



connieflyer said:


> I played the song again a couple of times and did not hear anything like that.  I also checked this you tube and did not hear it either.




Hey ol' buddy...looks like you might have some wax in that right ear of yours lol!!  Do you hear it with your Senns in the right channel? If not, swap the cans over and see if you then hear it in your left ear. With my own hearing, it's clear as day lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

Hi.
Just wondering if any of you guy's using KT66/88 combo are getting a slight power hum? Quite pronounced on HD800 not quite as noticeable on T1?


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Hi.
> Just wondering if any of you guy's using KT66/88 combo are getting a slight power hum? Quite pronounced on HD800 not quite as noticeable on T1?


Yes I get a faint hum with the KT66/88 combo too, I only hear it in between tracks and it does fade a little after an hour.


----------



## DecentLevi (Nov 22, 2019)

I could hear several birds chirping clearly throughout the whole song, and especially at the point mentioned.

Here's a simple hearing test. I could hear everything from 20hz but couldn't hear anything higher than 15600hz (15.6Khz). How high can you guys go?

This is a mono recording, so sadly that means any perception of R/L panning actually means R/L hearing differences at those frequencies with your own ears. (I had some too).

And here is one of my trusty headphone test tracks. Spice GIrls - Stop (1997)
Two intricate details I listen for are the separation of the "clapping" overlayed over the drums (in this video from 0.06 - 0.21), Also the ability to hear the lady with the lower voice from (1.34 - 1.36 in this video). No doubt a test of not only hearing, but also the whole sound system.

PS this video is available up to basically lossless audio along the video options all the way up to 4K HD


----------



## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> Yes I get a faint hum with the KT66/88 combo too, I only hear it in between tracks and it does fade a little after an hour.



Thanks for getting back to me Scutey. Yes I've spent an hour or so changing every combination, tubes, dac's, cables. Its also present when I run these tubes in Elise but not quite so pronounced. As it doesn't seem to effect the music I can live with it. Cheers.


----------



## OctavianH

I hear a small hum (very small and when raising high the volume of Elise) also with KT66 / TS7581A.

And now, what we have here?







Even if these have the same date codes (18 11) one of them does not have the red logo on the base. Anyway, this should not be a problem. During this evening I will be able to test the mighty KT88 / KT66 everyone is praising. Let's hope I will become a believer too.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi.
> Just wondering if any of you guy's using KT66/88 combo are getting a slight power hum? Quite pronounced on HD800 not quite as noticeable on T1?



Ah bt...looks like you're getting one of those pesky tube anomalies based upon levels of transconductance/gain/plate dissipation with each individual tube. 

No two tubes are hardly ever going to be identical in all these parameters, and can differ in degree of effect according to the interaction with each (and any!!) other. For example, my Valvo mesh  plate (oval) EL11s had such a very light hum, but the same spec Philips (Australia) mesh plate (oval) EL3N*G *was dead silent lol! ...weird!! 

And I too have found that my 2 _very_ strong reading KT66s give a very slight hum, and yet one with a 10ma lower output reading is hardly noticeable at all...and only with the HD650s - nothing with the Empyreans for the latter and practically nil for the former! And it has gradually diminished slightly over time. Interesting that there's no hint of hum whatsoever via pre amp to my speaker system! It would appear this kind of hum is also dependent upon _impedance_ levels lol...

I do hope yours also reduces over time, as it would seem from my own experience of my tubes' (KT66s) different output rating that as they diminish with use, so the hum effect will also reduce...fingers crossed!


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I hear a small hum (very small and when raising high the volume of Elise) also with KT66 / TS7581A.
> 
> And now, what we have here?
> 
> ...



GREAT OH...aren't they just gorgeous looking tubes? Strange, the missing logo...but these things happen lol!

And if you're not converted to these beauties pretty darned quick, I'll eat my hat!! (But as I don't wear one anyway, I suppose I'll be OK!! ). However, I don't have any doubts at all...it's clear to anyone  with two ears (IMHO! ) it is a superlative tube...and I trust your own lol ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

Yep, these are beautiful tubes. And honestly I would prefer them without any logo or writing, but what to say, I am lucky these are not coming with a red flag in the box or some divisions of tanks like 50 years ago.


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Ah bt...looks like you're getting one of those pesky tube anomalies based upon levels of transconductance/gain/plate dissipation with each individual tube.
> 
> No two tubes are hardly ever going to be identical in all these parameters, and can differ in degree of effect according to the interaction with each (and any!!) other. For example, my Valvo mesh  plate (oval) EL11s had such a very light hum, but the same spec Philips (Australia) mesh plate (oval) EL3N*G *was dead silent lol! ...weird!!
> 
> ...


Thanks H1. Perhaps once my second KT88 arrives I'll try swapping between my 4 x 66's to see if any improvement with different combinations?


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> Thanks for getting back to me Scutey. Yes I've spent an hour or so changing every combination, tubes, dac's, cables. Its also present when I run these tubes in Elise but not quite so pronounced. As it doesn't seem to effect the music I can live with it. Cheers.


Yes that's exactly what I think too, It's only a minor hum, also I have 4 new adapters coming in soon from @Deyan , it will be interesting to hear if there is any difference, I usually use a pair of Beyer T1 2nd gen but I also have a pair of ZMF Atticus and the hum with these is noticeably louder.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I hear a small hum (very small and when raising high the volume of Elise) also with KT66 / TS7581A.
> 
> And now, what we have here?
> 
> ...


Good to hear you've finally got em!, I will be interested to know how you find them, especially with metal .


----------



## OctavianH

Will do my friend. So, the picture I had to do:






Currently listening to Avantasia's The Mistery of Time album, this song being my favourite from this album:



It is too early to say something, but the first impression is good, clean sound and a lot of detail. We will see. I think there is a little bit more bass than with KT66 / 7581A but the precision and definition was not lost. I will continue at least 40 hours with these and then I will decide.


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## connieflyer

One last word on the bird crap that everyone is supposedly talking about like it's something that was not supposed to be there, anyone who knows Mannheim Steamroller as a composer writer musician knows that these birds chirping sounds that you hear are part of his trademark songs. If it's such a big disgusting thing by all means don't listen to the man. And a rat like it don't like it I really don't care


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## hypnos1 (Nov 22, 2019)

For sure @connieflyer ...anything Chip Davis does is fine by me - a true master of the 'New Age' genre. And the 'Mannheim Steamroller' series is certainly one to cherish lol ...CJ
ps. And the quality of recording is second to none...


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Thanks H1. Perhaps once my second KT88 arrives I'll try swapping between my 4 x 66's to see if any improvement with different combinations?



Let's hope so bt...but with all our tubes being brand new, all readings are likely to be quite high lol (so a mixed blessing, it looks like ). Fingers crossed nonetheless .



Scutey said:


> Yes that's exactly what I think too, It's only a minor hum, also I have 4 new adapters coming in soon from @Deyan , it will be interesting to hear if there is any difference, I usually use a pair of Beyer T1 2nd gen but I also have a pair of ZMF Atticus and the hum with these is noticeably louder.



Hi S. Interesting that in your 300 ohm Atticus the hum is louder than the 600 ohm Beyers...which would indicate _impedance_ differences are not such an obvious factor after all lol, given my experience with pre amp out duties and my 32 ohm Meze Empyreans...the former totally silent, with infinitesimal hum in the Empys.

Ah well, perhaps the moral of the tale is..._go for the Empyreans lol!!_ ...they sure do love Euforia with the KT combo especially....


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Let's hope so bt...but with all our tubes being brand new, all readings are likely to be quite high lol (so a mixed blessing, it looks like ). Fingers crossed nonetheless .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I thought that too, re the Empyreans I'd love to go for a pair, problem is my wallet wouldn't!, maybe when I win the lottery! .


----------



## LoryWiv

Quick question: I was rolling my 7581A's back into Elise and when i was placing them into adapters for 6AS7G socket, the plastic guide pin center portion of one of the 7581A broke of in the adapter. I was able to remove it and have placed the tube into the adapter with correct orientation, seems to be working normally but curious if this could pose harm to the tube or amp in the longer term.  Hopefully not!


----------



## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yes I thought that too, re the Empyreans I'd love to go for a pair, problem is my wallet wouldn't!, maybe when I win the lottery! .



Hi S. All I can say (seriously!) is _get saving lol_...they're worth every penny, despite my initial hesitance in spending that kind of money on headphones...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S. All I can say (seriously!) is _get saving lol_...they're worth every penny, despite my initial hesitance in spending that kind of money on headphones...CHEERS!...CJ


I'd better get saving then, or I could just try and sell the missus!.


----------



## Scutey

LoryWiv said:


> Quick question: I was rolling my 7581A's back into Elise and when i was placing them into adapters for 6AS7G socket, the plastic guide pin center portion of one of the 7581A broke of in the adapter. I was able to remove it and have placed the tube into the adapter with correct orientation, seems to be working normally but curious if this could pose harm to the tube or amp in the longer term.  Hopefully not!


Actually I've done the same thing with one those too, also have a couple others with broken guide pins and they work fine, and as far as I know there should Not be any long term concerns either.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Quick question: I was rolling my 7581A's back into Elise and when i was placing them into adapters for 6AS7G socket, the plastic guide pin center portion of one of the 7581A broke of in the adapter. I was able to remove it and have placed the tube into the adapter with correct orientation, seems to be working normally but curious if this could pose harm to the tube or amp in the longer term.  Hopefully not!



Hi LW...no problem at all. And well done on getting the correct orientation lol! Sometimes you can see where the locating protrusion was, otherwise it's not so easy - but a cheap multi-volt DC charger/adapter (1000mA) set at 6/7V will soon trace the heater pins.


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 23, 2019)

Scutey said:


> I'd better get saving then, or I could just try and sell the missus!.



I keep threatening to put mine (the missus, _not_ the Empys!!) on ebay...but can't think what reserve to put lol!!...(daren't let her know it's _too_ low )...CJ


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## barontan2418

LoryWiv said:


> Quick question: I was rolling my 7581A's back into Elise and when i was placing them into adapters for 6AS7G socket, the plastic guide pin center portion of one of the 7581A broke of in the adapter. I was able to remove it and have placed the tube into the adapter with correct orientation, seems to be working normally but curious if this could pose harm to the tube or amp in the longer term.  Hopefully not!



I did exactly the same when fitting  KT66. Makes no difference just take care when aligning tube.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Quick question: I was rolling my 7581A's back into Elise and when i was placing them into adapters for 6AS7G socket, the plastic guide pin center portion of one of the 7581A broke of in the adapter. I was able to remove it and have placed the tube into the adapter with correct orientation, seems to be working normally but curious if this could pose harm to the tube or amp in the longer term.  Hopefully not!


These things happen. For me the easiest way is to stick on a little piece of red tape indicating the location of the ridge on the guide pin. As mentioned, if you look carefully at the base, you can almost always see a little notch where that ridge was located.





If you really are worried about the right orientation, you can buy octal rings with a guide pin and attach to the tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pcs-Vacu...115670?hash=item236ccb4316:g:QtIAAOSwacdZbjxB


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## LoryWiv (Nov 24, 2019)

mordy said:


> These things happen. For me the easiest way is to stick on a little piece of red tape indicating the location of the ridge on the guide pin. As mentioned, if you look carefully at the base, you can almost always see a little notch where that ridge was located.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for all the help on the broken guide pin. I do have the adapters fit correctly and plan to leave them securedto eliminate futre mishaps. If I do remove them, the tips above will be front of mind! Thanks again.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> I keep threatening to put mine (the missus, _not_ the Empys!!) on ebay...but can't think what reserve to put lol!!...(daren't let her know it's _too_ low )...CJ


Lol yes, think mine would be more insulted by a low reserve than the thought of selling her!.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Lol yes, think mine would be more insulted by a low reserve than the thought of selling her!.



Ah yes, mon ami...discretion certainly is the better part of valour lol! ...(and _safer!!_ ).

Anyway folks, back to more serious (?!!) matters, I'm happy to report that the slight hum from my setup with the KT66/88 combo - as some of you also seem to have - is gradually diminishing from my more-prone HD650s, and not noticeable with my Empyreans now. Hopefully y'all will experience the same with a good bit more burn in. And gain comfort also from the fact that my mesh plate Valvo EL11s had the exact same very slight hum, and 2 years' constant use caused no harm to the amp whatsoever....

And I found some interesting info that might just give a clue as to the esteemed ancestry of our reissue Gold Lion KT88s (supposedly made to the same spec), along with a current asking price for an original...!!!...



 
 

No doubt the level of quality control can't quite match the original, but reports that the new production tubes aren't _too_ far off the NOS would certainly explain the superlative results I'm now getting from my own 88s...especially when driven by the 66s. And their price is much more to my liking lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

I've found that KT66 are also produced in China by Shuguang. I've found several offers on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KT66-GOL...764031&hash=item3fb7e7e2d0:g:6HcAAOSwTEVdemXq

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KT66-ORI...157961?hash=item3d32da1489:g:s5QAAOSw2d5deo6m

These seem to be clear tops and maybe have a slightly different construction. Did anyone tried these? The prices are decent.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I've found that KT66 are also produced in China by Shuguang. I've found several offers on ebay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KT66-GOL...764031&hash=item3fb7e7e2d0:g:6HcAAOSwTEVdemXq
> 
> ...



Hi OH.

Yep, there are indeed other new production KT66s - JJ Tesla; Tung Sol; Shuguang (+ 'Golden Dragon') etc., but general concensus points to the Genalex Gold Lion as being easily the best...and don't we all _deserve_ the best lol?!  And given our amps aren't driving these (or the KT88s) very hard at all, I should imagine they'll have a _very_ long life...hopefully! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 25, 2019)

Also for as long as I have been active with tubes ,not just here but another amplifiers, shugi's have always had a less than stellar reputation I have had two friends that have used them 1 reported the quality was poor and the other told me the tube did not last long. Easy enough to check on the net for the reputation


----------



## hypnos1 (Nov 25, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Also for as long as I have been active with tubes ,not just here but another amplifiers, shugi's have always had a less than stellar reputation I have had two friends that have used them 1 reported the quality was poor and the other told me the tube did not last long. Easy enough to check on the net for the reputation



Yo cf...I myself would much rather always pay a bit more for tubes that not only have a good reputation, but also have proved their worth through personal experience. I have adopted this principle for a long while now, and steadfastly avoid especially those alternative tubes that seem just 'good for the price'...no point whatsoever IMHO cutting corners after having spent so much upgrading the rest of the system lol!! . (But I draw the line at paying the kind of silly prices currently being asked for scrappy looking used (old) tubes such as many KT66s and KT88s that appear on ebay..._no way_, as far as I'm concerned! ).

And such folly is reinforced with each new day's listening to my favourite test tracks of old, both via headphones and speakers. Although privileged to have originated both Elise and Euforia, with 6SN7/6AS7G configuration, I have to say in all honesty that these reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT66 and 88s in our amps are so far ahead of _any_ 'conventional' tubes as to not even be a joke any more...they are _substantially_ superior, full stop lol!  And although not really _needing_ the 150+ hrs burn-in of the 7581A, their performance in my own system has continued to improve even _after_ this length of time. Today, sounds were coming from my Tannoys that firstly I thought shouldn't actually _be_ there - but simply hadn't noticed them before - and secondly, sounded as if they were actually coming from somewhere else! Have never experienced this before..._ever!!
_
Anyway, after such amazing soundstage - and accompanying dynamic delivery - this evening my head needed something more delicate and refined...so what better than the soothing vocals in Voces 8's album 'Eventide' via the Empyreans. And this album is a prime candidate for testing a system's ability in the 'delicacy/refinement/polish' arena. Once again, this KT combo rose to the challenge, sweeping all before it...as effortlessly as with much heavier, more dynamic material. And so we have yet another bonus with these tubes...ie. no need whatsoever to keep changing tubes to suit the genre. What other tube combo can boast such a plethora of talent lol? I personally haven't yet heard of one to beat this, from all the scouring I've done over the years!! 

As y'all may well have gathered by now, I'm rather impressed with these KT tubes.... All that remains - out of interest, of course - is to see how the KT88 likes being driven by _another_ KT88! And the next few days should bring an answer one way or the other...with a third Gold Lion on its merry way to me. At the very least, I shall have yet another one of these gorgeous tubes as a spare (not that I expect to need it as such...but you never know what accidents can befall us hapless tube lovers lol!! )....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Nov 25, 2019)

I was listening to that a few weeks ago, especially like the Seal Lulababy, they have quite few good albums.  On the album Enchated Isle one of  my favorites is Barbers Agnus Die, and an old old favorite is I wonder as I wander from their Christmas album.  And if you like solo piano, you could try some of Karen Marie Garrett,


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I was listening to that a few weeks ago, especially like the Seal Lulababy, they have quite few good albums.  On the album Enchated Isle one of  my favorites is Barbers Agnus Die, and an old old favorite is I wonder as I wander from their Christmas album.  And if you like solo piano, you could try some of Karen Marie Garrett,




Yo cf....'Seal Lullaby' is a gorgeous track. And the whole album sounded utterly sublime via the KT combo...must try some more of Voces 8's work. Not to mention the 'Sixteen'...

Must admit I've never (knowingly) listened to that pianist...is she up to Horowitz/Ashkenazy/Rubinstein/Gould/Pollini/Argerich/ et al? If so, I'm in lol!! ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

If you need something to get you moving this morning how about Alan Parson's?


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If you need something to get you moving this morning how about Alan Parson's?




Yes indeed cf...'The Alan Parsons Project' - one of the very best 'prog.rock' bands ever IMHO. Their 'Turn of a Friendly Card' is truly a masterpiece album as far as I'm concerned. And while on this genre, another top class musician  - Mike Oldfield - did so much more than his populist 'Tubular Bells' IMO. Listening to his light rock/fusion album 'Amarok' yesterday reminded me of his tremendous versatility and talent.
As with many other albums, I normally pick and choose my favourite tracks and then move on, but once again with the KT66/88 combo gracing Euforia I was transfixed throughout the entire work...it sounding like never before. I really loved its 'heavier' sections, which I usually only like a _little, _not being fond of anything much heavier than Genesis' 'Duke' or Dire Straits' 'Love over Gold' for example! ...(yeah, I know...a wimp!! ).

Anyway, what did strike me over and above all this tube combo's virtues that I've already described ad nauseum was a response to the sound that actually defies words/description...I just felt I was experiencing something _beyond_ normal hi-fi terms...a very special _je ne sais quoi_, if you will. However, I must admit this was via the Empyreans - the HD650s just couldn't reproduce this unique experience anything like the same (but then, so the Mezes _should_ be able to deliver something extra special, given their price lol!! ).

ps. I would just like to add that contrary to what _theory_ might say about these KT tubes in OTL amps,_ once they've burned in for about 100 hrs_ my own system delivered _bass_ that not only goes *deeper* than ever achieved before, but also more _*solidly*_ and more _*detailed*_...no hint whatsoever of being bloated/soft/boomy. And all without impeding the most delicate treble one could wish for. And as for soundstage...well, unsurpassed IMHO. Plus, these - and other - qualities continue to improve even beyond the 100 hrs mark.

I think I've now said all that needs to be (by me!) about these KT tubes...all except how _four_ KT88s sound! ...(a third arriving tomorrow, hopefully, and a fourth probably next week...should be quite interesting lol...).


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 27, 2019)

15% flash sale on GL KT66 on TubeDepot.com, and an additional discount if you register! No, I don't work for them, far from it, but who doesn't like a good deal.


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## barontan2418 (Nov 28, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> 15% flash sale on GL KT66 on TubeDepot.com, and an additional discount if you register! No, I don't work for them, far from it, but who doesn't like a good deal.


s

As much as I'm appreciating KT66/88 tubes I just popped EL39's driven by EL11' back in Elise, Tubular Bells 2 into player and good old HD600. Wow this is still a combination I love. I think I might have C.S.B.T.D as I cannot seem to resist a bargain when it comes to EL11. Just ended up winning 4x new Valvo's for less than £20 and already have nos RTF on the way. Still I'll never run out.


----------



## hypnos1

......................................................................................*KT88 as driver to KT88 power*.................................................................

OK boys, time to get your Christmas present list rewritten!...ie.should read :

No.1.....2x Genalex reissue Gold Lion KT88s (as powers).
No.2.....2x Genalex reissue Gold Lion KT88s (as _drivers).
_
Why?...because today I received my 3rd new GL88, and even with only a few hrs on it (but I suspect generous pre-burn-in lol!), as a driver for one as power, it not only performs superbly but their channel doesn't seem to be giving anywhere near the same level of hum (thru the HD650s, that is) as the KT66 as driver. And I suspect even that is probably mostly due to the other KT66 driver in the circuit! Naturally, I can't know for sure until my 4th 88 arrives next week, but I'm very hopeful...especially for those not fortunate enough to possess the mighty Meze Empyreans lol! 

Anyway, the latest combo of 1x KT88/1x KT66 drivers + 2x KT88 powers is already more than a nose ahead of 2x KT66 as drivers..._in my system._ I'm using an album I know intimately for comparison - The Alan Parsons Project 'Turn of a Friendly Card', as it has a good combination of electric/electronic/acoustic/vocals/percussion/effects. 

There's even more precise separation/placement of instruments, all within an even more expanded 3 dimensional stage (which I never thought possible)....the exaggerated panning in 'Games People Play' not only went wider, but wrapped around to the very back of my head, for example.

'Air' and space around vocals gave a special quality to solo numbers in 'You've got nothing left to lose' and 'I don't wanna go home'. Individual singers in group vocals in 'Snake Eyes' were more distinct, less melded together. 

Drum runs sounded more clear and precise...even when rather frantic, displaying masterly control, 'speed' and timing. Shaking tambourine was equally clear and precise.

Tonal range was still superb with, dare I say it, even _better_ bass...solid and detailed.

And all this from just _one_ KT88 as driver in place of the 66 lol! ...so can't wait to see what a _second_ as driver brings to the table.

To conclude, I can only recommend you give this quartet a try if you can. And it's all the easier for you guys in the US, with reissue Genalex GL KT88s going on ebay.com for just $40 to $45 each. The best price here, apart from the very rare bargain on ebay UK/EU seems to be a still very reasonable £47 from Hot Rox UK...and at these prices, this tube is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned! ...so, _bring on Christmas!! ..._CJ

ps. Am eager to see next week if 4x KT88s can help out you guys with slight hum re. KT66/KT88 combo...will let you know the minute my 4th tube arrives of course...


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> s
> 
> As much as I'm appreciating KT66/88 tubes I just popped EL39's driven by EL11' back in Elise, Tubular Bells 2 into player and good old HD600. Wow this is still a combination I love. I think I might have C.S.B.T.D as I cannot seem to resist a bargain when it comes to EL11. Just ended up winning 4x new Valvo's for less than £20 and already have nos RTF on the way. Still I'll never run out.



Well bt...there's no denying the superb performance of the EL11/EL39 combo...a very hard act to follow indeed lol!  And each individual's system will certainly give slightly different results...so thank the Gods for the incredible versatility/flexibility of both Elise and Euforia!!  ...HAPPY LISTENING!


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## Johnnysound (Nov 29, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> s
> 
> As much as I'm appreciating KT66/88 tubes I just popped EL39's driven by EL11' back in Elise, Tubular Bells 2 into player and good old HD600. Wow this is still a combination I love. I think I might have C.S.B.T.D as I cannot seem to resist a bargain when it comes to EL11. Just ended up winning 4x new Valvo's for less than £20 and already have nos RTF on the way. Still I'll never run out.





hypnos1 said:


> Well bt...there's no denying the superb performance of the EL11/EL39 combo...a very hard act to follow indeed lol!  And each individual's system will certainly give slightly different results...so thank the Gods for the incredible versatility/flexibility of both Elise and Euforia!!  ...HAPPY LISTENING!



4 new EL11 Valvos for less than £20 ... where in the world ?  A big bargain.   Just bought a NOS pair for $ 80, still a fair price...since I was looking for the ones made by Loewe-Opta Berlin (factory code G-xx)  I have another tube with the same code that sounds fantastic...and yes, the new ones are absolutely great sounding, very refined drivers in Euforia. BTW, EL11 tubes from the same factory were labeled as “Valvo”, “Philips” or “Siemens”.


----------



## barontan2418

Johnnysound said:


> 4 new EL11 Valvos for less than £20 ... where in the world ?  A big bargain.   Just bought a NOS pair for $ 80, still a fair price...since I was looking for the ones made by Loewe-Opta Berlin (factory code G-xx)  I have another tube with the same code that sounds fantastic...and yes, the new ones are absolutely great sounding, very refined drivers in Euforia. BTW, EL11 tubes from the same factory were labeled as “Valvo”, “Philips” or “Siemens”.



Just got lucky with a bid which doesn't often happen to me. They arrive today so we will see. I own several Telefunken/Valvo and RFT11's which I use along side EL39's, a combo I really like  however never managed to get a new pair so looking forward to the journey.


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## connieflyer

Just sent in my order for another pair of KT88's so I have 4 Genelex KT66 with just over 100 hours I will be selling as well as the 4 Tunsol 7581A's.  Going to consentrate on the KT88's and if these work for me as well as the others have will keep Euforia and the KT88's, if not will move to another amp that uses the KT 88's, I guess I should have gone with my first thought and got the KT88's first!


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting thread about KT88's to be aware of ......KT-88's better than EH ... | Audiogon Discussion Forum
[Search domain forum.audiogon.com/discussions/kt-88-s-better-than-eh] https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/kt-88-s-better-than-eh
The Penta Labs KT88sc are not made to the factory specs of Genelex KT88, nor are the Penta Labs KT88sc made with the same materials or on the same equipment as the Genelex KT88. Penta Labs has a disclaimer on their website that the Penta Labs KT88sc is designed to cosmetically resemble the Genelex KT88, and Penta Labs makes no further claims to the similarity of these two brands.


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## OctavianH

I have to admit that I've made some searches for amps designed for KT88/KT66 and I found one in UK here:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/i...tereo-25-mkii-integrated-valve-amplifier.html







There is another one, with KT66 in Canada here:
http://www.charismaaudio.com/?page_id=1012






I have no idea how these sound but for sure, at least the second one, look very nice.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Just sent in my order for another pair of KT88's so I have 4 Genelex KT66 with just over 100 hours I will be selling as well as the 4 Tunsol 7581A's.  Going to consentrate on the KT88's and if these work for me as well as the others have will keep Euforia and the KT88's, if not will move to another amp that uses the KT 88's, I guess I should have gone with my first thought and got the KT88's first!



Ah cf...hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing lol!  Who'd have ever thought the legendary KT tubes could even be contemplated for our amps...miraculous indeed!! 

ps. Am still liking what's coming out of the channel with just one 88 as driver, and a 66 in the other...feverishly anticipating the arrival of a couple more next week!! 

pps. For those 'hummers', swapping over these drivers did confirm far less coming from the 88 than the 66, with 2x 88 powers......


----------



## connieflyer

Hindsight is a great thing, except next time you make a decision, remember your past mistakes, and go ahead with your first gut reaction, and then it turns out wrong!  Life is weird that way.  Your adapters should be here today or tomorrow, looking forward to those, and the new KT 88's will be here next week, so tube rolling will be done then.  Hope all is well.


----------



## connieflyer

O, I am familiar with the manufactuer of the first amp, Icon. They have been around for awhile and put out very good products in the past.  These amps are power stereo amps, not headphone amps,  but have headphone output circuits. The Icon Stereo 60 also uses 4 of  KT150, and four 6sn7's.  Sounds like a nice amp.   https://www.analogueseduction.net/integrated-amplifiers/IAST60MKIV.html


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## Johnnysound (Nov 30, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Interesting thread about KT88's to be aware of ......KT-88's better than EH ... | Audiogon Discussion Forum
> [Search domain forum.audiogon.com/discussions/kt-88-s-better-than-eh] https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/kt-88-s-better-than-eh
> The Penta Labs KT88sc are not made to the factory specs of Genelex KT88, nor are the Penta Labs KT88sc made with the same materials or on the same equipment as the Genelex KT88. Penta Labs has a disclaimer on their website that the Penta Labs KT88sc is designed to cosmetically resemble the Genelex KT88, and Penta Labs makes no further claims to the similarity of these two brands.



Hi CF, the Penta Labs KT88SC are no longer available, but It looks like the same tube as the very nice Shuguang *GE*KT88, (GE for Genalex) a faithful reproduction of the British tube with solid plates and triple getters...and reviews say they sound great. The Tube Store sells the same version as its “Preferred Series” KT88...


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## OctavianH

connieflyer said:


> O, I am familiar with the manufactuer of the first amp, Icon. They have been around for awhile and put out very good products in the past.  These amps are power stereo amps, not headphone amps,  but have headphone output circuits. The Icon Stereo 60 also uses 4 of  KT150, and four 6sn7's.  Sounds like a nice amp.   https://www.analogueseduction.net/integrated-amplifiers/IAST60MKIV.html



I've read a lot about them, unfortunately they have only one dedicated headphone amp (the HP8). The problem is that the KT66/KT88 are all the time used in speakers amps and not in headphone ones. I am really curious how these would sound in a headphone amp designed for them. All I could find where those.


----------



## connieflyer

Hello O, and Johnnysound I had looked at the tubestore.  I bought my 7581a's from the tubestore, and have been happy with them.  But I bought the KT66's and the KT88's from Upscale Audio.  They do a more through job of tube testing and matching.  Plus on the power tubes they offer a 72 hour burn in for a few dollars, and that also gives me a little more confidence that the tubes will work correctly.  This is now the distributor of Feliks amps in the US, and I had been in contact with them about the anniversary amp, nice folks to deal with.  On the next link, scroll down past the tube info to below the video and the owner explains how they handle their tubes.  Video is informative.  https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/power-tubes/products/gold-lion-kt88


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## kvik

OctavianH said:


> I've read a lot about them, unfortunately they have only one dedicated headphone amp (the HP8). The problem is that the KT66/KT88 are all the time used in speakers amps and not in headphone ones. I am really curious how these would sound in a headphone amp designed for them. All I could find where those.


Virtus-01 ($1400) from polish White Bird Amplification is a dedicated headphone amp which uses KT88.

Aside from the two integrated mentioned already the following integrated with headphone output accept KT88: Musical Paradise MP-301 MK3, Elekit TU-8200 DX, ROGERS 65V-1, Cary Audio SLI-80, OCTAVE V16 Single Ended


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi CF, the Penta Labs KT88SC are no longer available, but It looks like the same tube as the very nice Shuguang *GE*KT88, (GE for Genalex) a faithful reproduction of the British tube with solid plates and triple getters...and reviews say they sound great. The Tube Store sells the same version as its “Preferred Series” KT88...



Hi J....must admit that I personally would have/trust Russian made tubes most times over Chinese ones...materials/construction/quality control etc. lol . And I really do advise spending just a bit more for the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions...the performance from my Russian KT66s and 88s - in my system - far outweighs any previous favourite combo of mine, continuing to surprise me more each day even after all this time ....CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Nov 30, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> I've read a lot about them, unfortunately they have only one dedicated headphone amp (the HP8). The problem is that the KT66/KT88 are all the time used in speakers amps and not in headphone ones. I am really curious how these would sound in a headphone amp designed for them. All I could find where those.



Yo OH...as @connieflyer said, the headphone circuit in combined amps is usually a separate one and therefore of a compromised standard, unfortunately.... 
Also, I had a chance to compare the HP8 with Elise and although very good wasn't in the same league.



kvik said:


> Virtus-01 ($1400) from polish White Bird Amplification is a dedicated headphone amp which uses KT88.
> 
> Aside from the two integrated mentioned already the following integrated with headphone output accept KT88: Musical Paradise MP-301 MK3, Elekit TU-8200 DX, ROGERS 65V-1, Cary Audio SLI-80, OCTAVE V16 Single Ended



Hi kvik...now, a _dedicated_ hp amp with the KT88 sounds much more interesting IMHO lol!  And that price looks very reasonable indeed...but I bet it doesn't have KTs also as drivers...I doubt anyone has ever even thought about such a combo!! (and is certainly doing wonders for my Euforia/Empyrean system ).


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## chrisdrop

OctavianH said:


> I have to admit that I've made some searches for amps designed for KT88/KT66 and I found one in UK here:
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/i...tereo-25-mkii-integrated-valve-amplifier.html
> 
> 
> ...



@OctavianH - perhaps:  https://www.zmfheadphones.com/ampsanddacs/mogwai-se

KT66/77/88 or EL34/6l6GC type Power tubes, 6sl7 inout tube and 5u4g rectification


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## OctavianH (Nov 30, 2019)

I did not knew that ZMF is making tube amps, but it seems they do. What worries me about Mogwai-SE is the max 300 Ohm headphone recommendation, my Beyers have 600 Ohms.

Anyway, very interesting links and info. Thanks all!

I would be very curious to try this baby:
https://www.wbamp.com/product/virtus-01-headphones-otl-tube-amplifier/






Anyway on Facebook I've seen some pictures from inside, it seems they use a hand made PCB in it:











As far as I know, others are avoiding PCBs use point to point wiring. Anyway, very interesting stuff.


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## chrisdrop

While ZMF is selling them, they are not making HP amps. These are from ampandsound. I probably should have sent the A&S link.  https://ampsandsound.com/products/mogwai-special-edition

They have other amps w/ the KT88 like the MOGWAI OG @ $2k.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 1, 2019)

..


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## connieflyer

Just a little something to get you moving this morning, the genius of this playing looks almost like a video game, talent is not something I possess after looking at this, I am going to avoid going near a piano  top 10most difficult piano pieces


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi C...Well yes, Chinese tubes had that fame of “low quality” (for their mass produced tubes) but in recent years things have improved a lot with their “special” series like Psvane T-II, Shuguang “Treasures”, Fullmusic,  not to mention expensive beauties  like the Sophia Electric KT88-ST  blue bottles ($175 each) that are custom made by Shuguang for the said U.S. company, and reviewers are bowled over... they say the tubes belong to the very top of the KT88s universe (including NOS tubes) and some say a sonic level comparable with the revered (and uber expensive) Czech KR tubes.  So, the Chinese definitely can make excellent and reliable tubes...for a price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi J...those Chinese 'super' tubes certainly do look the business...especially that lovely looking blue Sophia Princess!  But at those prices, I'm afraid I'll pass on them given the magnificent sound that's coming from my 3x Russian GL KT88/ 1x KT66 (at the moment!) setup lol .

And as for different folks' opinions on all these different iterations of the KT88, I'm afraid it would seem that as usual, one needs to take many of them with a very large pinch of salt indeed!  For example, I've read very unfavourable experiences with Penta Labs tubes, and even sometimes questioning re. the value for money of the Sophia Princesses...???. As for the Russian Genalex reissues, I personally like their use of gold signal grid wire; carbonised screen grids and triple alloy coated anodes!! . But I'm certainly looking forward to how you find the Shu WEKT88s in your Euforia, J...(sure wish you had the Empyreans though lol ).


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## hypnos1 (Dec 1, 2019)

Now then guys, I've simply got to make another addendum to my previous notes on the use of even just 1x KT88 as driver partner to a KT66, both driving KT88 powers.

And this is because of something that has struck me more ever since hearing Phil Collins's voice once again in Genesis' 'Duke' album...ie. a new appreciation of the myriad different ways the letter 's' can sound when sung. Throughout Duke, Collins especially has a range of 's' pronunciation to rival any, short of the full 'th' lisp lol!! ...from z/sz; sh; ssch, thru ss to almost sibilant ssss! These differences were never quite so noticeable before the KT88 driver was in situ....now I look for such things in all my recordings!! .
OK, so this is bordering on (or even full blown!) obsessive/compulsive behaviour, but what it highlights is this KT88 tube's mastery of clarity; detail retrieval; accuracy; precision and delicious presentation within a 3 dimensional stage...the exact level depending on the resolving ability of the rest of one's system, especially DAC and headphones of course. What is also clear though is that with the wrong partnering gear, these 88s could begin to sound rather 'clinical', approaching an _extremely _good SS amp...they cut through the music like a surgeon's scalpel and take no prisoners lol!

That they don't seem to 'colour' the delivery to any great degree some may not fully appreciate, but for me at least a more_ accurate _presentation is no bad thing...now I've heard this more 'pure' sound from my own setup, I've no desire whatsoever for any more 'warmth' (ie. _distortion!!_). But having said that, I'm still getting a certain 'magic' that comes from an _all_ tube (OTL) design, as opposed to the use of an output transformer (unless, perhaps an _extremely_ good - and accordingly expensive! - one!!)...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. To round off our journey into alternative amps, may I just say I firmly I believe we've no need to stray from F-A's offerings anyway, given how they are (miraculously!) able to make these KT tubes shine so brightly. Put the money instead towards an upgraded DAC, if necessary, and certainly towards a pair of Meze Empyrean headphones...it's as though they were made just for this Euforia setup lol!! ...


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## connieflyer (Dec 9, 2019)

Hello CJ, my other pair of 88Will be here tomorrow and really looking forward to it. One thing that was very clear, to me,I use the Sennheizer 800 headphone, and with the KT series of tubes the bass line has increased and the warmth of the presentation has also increased. Yet no longer sounds clinical or harsh in any way shape or form. I am quite happy with the results.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Just a little something to get you moving this morning, the genius of this playing looks almost like a video game, talent is not something I possess after looking at this, I am going to avoid going near a piano  top 10most difficult piano pieces



Hi cf,
Let's throw in an American hard to play piano piece - The Fingerbreaker:


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, my other pair of 88Will be here tomorrow and really looking forward to it. One thing that was very clear, to me,I use the Sun heizer 800 headphone, and with the KT series of tubes the bass line has increased and the warmth of the presentation has also increased. Yet no longer sounds clinical or harsh in any way shape or form. I am quite happy with the results.



Hey cf...that means you'll have a KT88 quartet even before I do..._not allowed lol!_  However, as your Senns are obviously liking these KTs as much as my Empys do, I look forward to hearing how they respond to the 2x 88s as drivers and your own findings. Hopefully my fourth 88 will arrive on Tues. and can't wait, given what just one as driver is doing for me at least! ...CJ


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## connieflyer (Dec 1, 2019)

I'm going to try just 1 88 as a driver with 1 66 as a driver just took see what the difference will be once a pair is in place , of course if you like I can wait until Wednesday so you will have your quad in place before me! After all I defer to the king!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I'm going to try just 1 88 as a driver with 1 66 as a driver just took see what the difference will be once a pair is in place , of course if you like I can wait until Wednesday so you will have your quad in place before me! After all I defer to the king!



Heck no, cf...get those babies in without delay lol! I'm as curious as you to see how they fare in your own setup ...


----------



## connieflyer

I hear and obey!


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## connieflyer (Dec 2, 2019)

Tubes arrived, installed both KT88's .  Big benefit for buying tubes with 72 hour burn in, is don't have to wait to hear tubes settling in. Initial views, sound stage is larger, instrument placement more defined. Clarity of music about the same, perhaps a little better, volume knob increased more per less power.  Big deal, now, like CJ was saying, hearing things that were not apparent in musical scores.  Bass is about the same, but mid's and high's are better, especially mid's.  More accentuated, sound stage more defined and vocals much better.  Did not think there would be this much difference, but glad I made the investment.  Have not received the new adapters from C J yet, so there may be a little more to come.  I have now stopped looking at new headphone amps.  This is it for me.  No need to look any further, would have to spend a lot more money to get anything better, if possible.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Tubes arrived, installed both KT88's .  Big benefit for buying tubes with 72 hour burn in, is don't have to wait to hear tubes settling in. Initial views, sound stage is larger, instrument placement more defined. Clarity of music about the same, perhaps a little better, volume knob increased more per less power.  Big deal, now, like CJ was saying, hearing things that were not apparent in musical scores.  Bass is about the same, but mid's and high's are better, especially mid's.  More accentuated, sound stage more defined and vocals much better.  Did not think there would be this much difference, but glad I made the investment.  Have not received the new adapters from C J yet, so there may be a little more to come.  I have now stopped looking at new headphone amps.  This is it for me.  No need to look any further, would have to spend a lot more money to get anything better, if possible.



Hi cf...glad those beauties arrived safe and sound. And that extra burn in period sure is a bonus for initial impressions lol! But I can assure you all those points you mentioned - and more - will continue to improve over the coming days...(these giant plates/anodes need plenty of time to mature, especially when only just ticking over in our amps ).

Glad also you don't regret the extra investment, and are enjoying the 88's qualities as drivers, not just powers lol. Interesting you also notice the improved vocals, knowing how you have a keen ear for exceptionally _trained_ singers as opposed to so many modern _so-called_ singers (a statement for which I make no apology!! ). What struck me especially today was how much clearer vocal pronunciation sounds...both with solo and multiple/backing voices..._nice_......

Looking forward to how things develop with further burn in...CHEERS...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to Clannad and Loreena McKennit were a real treat.  Blackmores Nights were really eerie. So much material that was there, that I did not hear before.   Have put on Duex Ex Human  Revolution just now and the sound effects are surreal.  The biggest change for me on the sound stage, was before you would have right and left and the top of your head,but with this quad of KT88's, it is more of an arc from ear to ear, instrument placement is much more precise.


----------



## Johnnysound (Dec 3, 2019)

*


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## hypnos1 (Dec 3, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Listening to Clannad and Loreena McKennit were a real treat.  Blackmores Nights were really eerie. So much material that was there, that I did not hear before.   Have put on Duex Ex Human  Revolution just now and the sound effects are surreal.  The biggest change for me on the sound stage, was before you would have right and left and the top of your head,but with this quad of KT88's, it is more of an arc from ear to ear, instrument placement is much more precise.



Aha cf...you now have me chafing at the bit even more, waiting for my fourth KT88 to arrive...(it better had today, or else lol!! ). Especially given how good just the one as driver partner to a 66 sounds . It's uncanny how alike our systems are in responding to different tubes...I can only hope that others experience results that match or at least come close to ours - these truly are wonderful tubes. And that soundstage is unlike any I've ever heard before - Andreas Wollenveider's 'Caverna Magica' has to be heard to be believed with these tubes! 

ps. Hopefully my Neotech UP-OCC wire-clad adapters might just bring out a little more...I only wish I could manage to make them on a larger scale for folks ...CJ

Edit...RATS!!!...Royal Mail have just told me my KT88 won't be here 'til tomorrow...not a happy bunny lol!! ...Ah well, will try to grin and bear it...


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Hi CJ...please note that I am NOT criticizing the GLs in any way...those are great tubes and I know *very* well Russian “new production” tubes, having myself a good collection of “New Sensor” power tubes (from the same Saratov factory):  4 x Tung-Sol KT150s, 4 x EH EL34s, 4 x EH 6CA7s, 4 x GL KT77s, 2 x TS 5881As, not to mention pairs of TS 12AX7s and EH 12AT7s.  As you can imagine, going for some premium Chinese tubes (instead of the proven Gold Lions) is like exploring new, unknown territory,  taking the risks...and you my dear CJ, as “discoverer” of many great tubes know exactly what I mean...


 
Hi J...you do indeed have quite a collection there lol!  And yes, as a fellow 'explorer', I do understand your desire to try different, and possibly even better tubes!  Trouble is, of course, there are so _many_ out there, and one can never really know just how they'll perform until tried in one's own system...and there's the rub - _no guarantees_ alas!!  I myself quite like the look also of those Shuguang 'Premium' Nature Sound 'T' internally coated, gold plated base KT88s. But by the time our Customs vampires - not to mention our shippers' 'handling charge' - hit, the price is more than I think worth it, given I doubt very much indeed whether their performance would be significantly better than the Gold Lions. And so, J, lucky you for being able to get a 'deal' on those WEKT88s!!  However, you _know_ it's those gorgeous looking blue Sophie Princess tubes you _really_ want to try lol! 

But whatever, good luck with those premium tubes, and HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Reviews on amazon on those tubes CJ were positive.   
5 star 	
	64%
4 star 	
	36%
3 star 0% (0%) 	
	0%
2 star 0% (0%) 	
	0%
1 star 0% (0%) 	
	0%
Matched Quad Shuguang Kt88-t Premium Vacuum Tube Nature Sound High-end Gift Box
Matched Quad Shuguang Kt88-t Premium Vacuum Tube Nature Sound High-end Gift Box
bySHUGUANG
Write a review
See All Buying Options
Add to Wish List at the price they were, $215 a pair not cheap, but they certainly have the look.  Beautiful tube. By the way CJ, I got tracking from the post office, adapters will be delivered today.  So keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Dobrescu George

I posted my in-depth analysis video about Feliks Euforia!!  

There's a full written review incoming as well


----------



## mordy

Hi h1,
I still have my Euforia. If I wanted to sample the latest developments in improving the sound of it, what should I get?
1) A pair of KT66 as drivers and a pair of KT88 as powers
2) Quad of KT88
3) One KT66 and one KT88 as drivers and a pair of KT88 as powers
Which brands would you recommend for the KT66 and KT88?  All Gold Lion reissue?
Four adapters - I assume that they all are the same? Can't seem to find the adapters listed.


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 3, 2019)

It happens to be the "7581 instead 6AS7" adapters from eBay (6L6 series) adapters that work for all of the above. It looks like the answer you will get is leaning towards Quad KT88 Genalex, but wait for others to chime in. Also I read something recently on either this or the Glenn thread that KT series tubes are generally not acclaimed very well on most other OTL tube amps, however they pair especially well with the Elise/Euforia due to something about its' unique pinout or something to that effect. So they may/not sound just as good in your Glenn OTL amp but I may be wrong.


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## connieflyer (Dec 3, 2019)

HI Mordy, the adapters are available here.     https://www.ebay.com/itm/193142155772?ViewItem=&item=193142155772
I have tried the 7581a's and the KT66 quad, KT66 and KT88 and now the quad of KT88, and of them all the quad of KT88 is by far and away the best I have heard in Euforia.  I bought the KT66 and 88 from Upscale Audio, the US distributor for Feliks Audio.  Prices are a little, a few dollars more than other places, but they offer tube matching and for power tubes, the KT88's for about 3 dollars a 72 hour burn in. Well worth it in my opinion, great service and no problems at all.  I corresponded with Kevin and he is very prompt with replies and info.   https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/power-tubes/products/gold-lion-kt88
This is my opinion with my equipment.  Others hold other conclusions.


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the help.


----------



## LoryWiv

Headfi user @Deyan  makes 6L6 --> 6AS7 adapters that also work very well with the 7581A / KT tube family. I have used them with the former, and have 4 more to use when nmy KT66's and KT88's arrive.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 4, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> I still have my Euforia. If I wanted to sample the latest developments in improving the sound of it, what should I get?
> 1) A pair of KT66 as drivers and a pair of KT88 as powers
> 2) Quad of KT88
> ...



Hi mordy.

Well done for keeping hold of your Euforia...you're in for a real treat with these KT tubes lol! 

And as @connieflyer said (beating me to it, but I don't mind one bit!! ), the best combo will in fact be *QUAD 88!!*...and yes again - _*by far!*_ And another yes, the 6L(V)6/7581 adapter is the same pinout. As for which 88s, I myself - and others here - are finding the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions to be extremely good. Most other folks using these tubes also sing their praises, with the occasional problem turning up. I suspect the latter are possibly down to unreliabe sources, and/or plain bad luck lol! Hence cf's good advice for sticking to a reliable supplier such as UpscaleAudio in the US, or anyone else who offers pre burn-in and testing of tubes before shipping. I'm also quite sure that we will be much less likely to encounter any problems, with these tubes not being driven anywhere near as hard as would be in a power amp 

And so folks...................... *an update from me on said KT88 quad combo*..........................

My fourth GL KT88 arrived today, eagerly awaited after cf's findings re the quad - (well done for going straight in, mon ami!). To tell the truth, with the one as driver along with a KT66 I wasn't expecting a _great_ deal more..._*wrong!*_ Even with just a couple more hours on the 20 hr pre burn-in from HotRox UK, all I can say is...cf is absolutely right.

I'm still not quite believing the difference coming from replacing the 66 driver in the left channel with another 88. Basically, _all _the qualities I've described so far go up yet another notch (or 2!), the most obvious ones being even more 3D enhanced stage; even more detail/solidity/punch/definition and clarity to the bass (in my system); sharper attack to notes, and with subsequent greater sustain and decay; voice even more contained within its own space - as are instruments - and with more precision still in pronunciation. Overall is a sheer mastery of control, balance and cohesion...and all this is just for starters lol! Can't wait for more hours on this last KT88...not to mention the full works on converting them as opposed to sitting in my adapters...(shall be praying extra hard for this final surgery!). Speaking of scalpels, these KT88s simply cut through to the music like I've never heard before...but not in any way 'dry' or (negatively) clinical...again, in my own system at least.

And another - very important for some! - bonus...*NO HUM from my HD650s!!!*..and total, deathly black background from the Empyreans. The lower gain from the 88 compared to the 66 means turning up the vol knob a bit more, but brings this wonderful benefit. And even with the vol knob turned up quite high, I get no distortion whatsoever.

And so another pic of my current setup, but will be glad when I can get the 2 as drivers converted using the larger gold plated bases, to match the powers lol 




ps ...cf, female voices are now simply gorgeous - or, rather, even more so than before! I'm falling in love all over again with Loreena, Mim Grey ('Purple Sky'), Joan Collins ('A case of you')...and this is just for starters...(sshhh, don't tell 'She who must be obeyed'!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

CJ,  those gold adapters are perfect size looks like they were made for them!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ,  those gold adapters are perfect size looks like they were made for them!



Actually cf..._they are lol!! ..._thank goodness! ...(but the shallower base makes it just a bit more interesting in use!)...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> The lower gain from the 88 compared to the 66 means turning up the vol knob a bit more, but brings this wonderful benefit. And even with the vol knob turned up quite high, I get no distortion whatsoever.


Hi @hypnos1. Glad you're enjoying the KT88 quad incrementally more than other tube combinations. Can you elaborate on the difference in gain (amplification factor) between the GL KT66 versus KT88? I've been unable to find this specification in any of the related tube data sheets. Thank you, good sir.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @hypnos1. Glad you're enjoying the KT88 quad incrementally more than other tube combinations. Can you elaborate on the difference in gain (amplification factor) between the GL KT66 versus KT88? I've been unable to find this specification in any of the related tube data sheets. Thank you, good sir.



Hi LW.

Yo, this quartet of GL KT88s is proving to be the crowning glory of years of messing around with countless different tubes that my poor old amps have had to endure lol!! And amazingly, they _still_ work flawlessly lol!  As with @connieflyer , my current setup is performing so well that I have no desire whatsoever to even _look_ at other amps any more!  And besides, who else makes a headphone amp - or any other for that matter - that uses the KT88 as _drivers_ to the same as powers? I personally wouldn't now even consider trying any other driver for the 88 powers...they meld together far better than I ever thought/hoped for.

As for the 66 vs 88 gain issue, I actually only came across this in one of the myriad posts I've scoured from users in other (power) amps. And then I realised this would account for the much lower hum thru my HD650s when substituting a 66 driver with an 88, and complete absence with 2x 88 drivers (replicating the experience I had with my mesh plate EL11s compared to the standard tubes - higher gain obviously via the mesh plates!). Plus, the need for slightly higher volume knob setting also confirms this.


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 5, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> Yo, this quartet of GL KT88s is proving to be the crowning glory of years of messing around with countless different tubes that my poor old amps have had to endure lol!! And amazingly, they _still_ work flawlessly lol!  As with @connieflyer , my current setup is performing so well that I have no desire whatsoever to even _look_ at other amps any more!  And besides, who else makes a headphone amp - or any other for that matter - that uses the KT88 as _drivers_ to the same as powers? I personally wouldn't now even consider trying any other driver for the 88 powers...they meld together far better than I ever thought/hoped for.
> 
> As for the 66 vs 88 gain issue, I actually only came across this in one of the myriad posts I've scoured from users in other (power) amps. And then I realized this would account for the much lower hum thru my HD650s when substituting a 66 driver with an 88, and complete absence with 2x 88 drivers (replicating the experience I had with my mesh plate EL11s compared to the standard tubes - higher gain obviously via the mesh plates!). Plus, the need for slightly higher volume knob setting also confirms this.


Understood, thank you @hypnos1. I should receive a pair each of GL KT66 and KT88 in the next several days. I have adapters by Deyan ready to go, and look forward to listening. I enjoyed the TS 7581A's, am currently running NOS TS 7236 powers w/new production TS 6SN7GTB drivers which is quite pleasing as well. Seems there are an abundance of riches / good choices with our amps. I may eventually try a quad of KT88's as well but trying not to rush the journey nor break the bank!


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Understood, thank you @hypnos1. I should receive a pair each of GL KT66 and KT88 in the next several days, have adapters by Deyan, and look forward to listening. I enjoyed the TS 7581A's, am currently running NOS TS 7236 w/new production TS 6SN7 which is quite pleasing as well. Seems there are an abundance of riches / good choices with our amps. I may eventually try a quad of KT88's as well but trying not to rush the journey nor break the bank!



Yes indeed LW...so many good combos for our amps. It's a pity however that we discovered the superiority of quad KT88s a bit late in the day...but this journey of discovery is one that can be very educational on the way to finding just what suits us all best lol!  And as usual, different combos may prefer different setups...so, good luck with your own particular quest ....(wallet permitting! )...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW.
> 
> Yo, this quartet of GL KT88s is proving to be the crowning glory of years of messing around with countless different tubes that my poor old amps have had to endure lol!! And amazingly, they _still_ work flawlessly lol!  As with @connieflyer , my current setup is performing so well that I have no desire whatsoever to even _look_ at other amps any more!  And besides, who else makes a headphone amp - or any other for that matter - that uses the KT88 as _drivers_ to the same as powers? I personally wouldn't now even consider trying any other driver for the 88 powers...they meld together far better than I ever thought/hoped for.
> 
> As for the 66 vs 88 gain issue, I actually only came across this in one of the myriad posts I've scoured from users in other (power) amps. And then I realised this would account for the much lower hum thru my HD650s when substituting a 66 driver with an 88, and complete absence with 2x 88 drivers (replicating the experience I had with my mesh plate EL11s compared to the standard tubes - higher gain obviously via the mesh plates!). Plus, the need for slightly higher volume knob setting also confirms this.


Hi h1,
Did you come across an actual number for the amplification factor of the KT88 and KT66?


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 6, 2019)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Did you come across an actual number for the amplification factor of the KT88 and KT66?



Hi mordy.

Sorry, but no I'm afraid...just a comment on the KT88 being lower than the 66. And you know me - my rather foolhardy/unorthodox approach to tube experimentation has never gone into checking specs beyond the obvious ones to try and avoid _drastic_ incompatibility/disaster lol! ...and for which I'm eternally grateful for having survived such folly!! (or, rather, my amps...not to mention headphones! ).

Anyway folks, while on this subject of gain, I'm happy to report that after the absence of hum now from both KT88s as drivers and powers thru headphones, I'm now checking performance via pre-amp out to my Vincent SS amp and Tannoy XT6f speakers. And not only is there still no hint of hum whatsoever, but the bass coming from Raymond Daveluy's Bach and Widor Toccatas in 192kHz/24bit is not only going even deeper than before (which was already superb with the KT66s), but is rumbling through my whole body in a way that defies words...so I'll just say..._I can't believe it_...(plus, I'm waiting for the neighbour to knock on the wall lol! ).

Going back to the Empyreans and with more hours on my last 88, yesterday I wanted to see how these KT88s deal with older recordings, and I was surprised at how good they made them sound...(was expecting a case of 'no mercy given!!'). And not simply good, but even _better_... just as with more recent well engineered material. So far, fairy dust has been sprinkled on Peter Paul and Mary's 'Ten Years Together' (I love especially their 'Early Mornin' Rain'), and Chris de Burgh's 'Spanish Train and other Stories'...I never realised that such old albums were so well recorded/engineered. These KT88s are once again digging out material in the recordings never heard before.

And so to sum up, these GL KT88s have transformed my own Euforia amp/setup into an almost unrecognisable one...and one that is streets ahead of anything I've heard from this amp until now (trying as I am not to over-exaggerate my statements lol! ). And this with two tubes not yet given the final conversion 'treatment' ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning CJ, I too have heard remarkable results from older albums, some are really outstanding.  PP&M were usually well done, considering it was a small group that engineers had to mike for, and all acoustical.  Have been trying different music genre's and find many that otherwise would not be too pleasant to listen to, are quite good, including artists like  Ivan Torrent  and Lisa Gerrard    have much more depth than previously noted.  Some of the recordings I have re-discovered makes the artists abilities stand out.  These two examples are of course you tube so fidelity is not the greatest, but in original recordings they are great.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning CJ, I too have heard remarkable results from older albums, some are really outstanding.  PP&M were usually well done, considering it was a small group that engineers had to mike for, and all acoustical.  Have been trying different music genre's and find many that otherwise would not be too pleasant to listen to, are quite good, including artists like  Ivan Torrent  and Lisa Gerrard    have much more depth than previously noted.  Some of the recordings I have re-discovered makes the artists abilities stand out.  These two examples are of course you tube so fidelity is not the greatest, but in original recordings they are great.




Yo cf, it certainly is yet another wonderful bonus of these GL KT88 tubes that they make _old_ favourites sound so much better. In fact, *all* my albums are like hearing anew - as has happened a good few times before in this amazing journey of ours these past few years lol . But of all, _nothing_ - not even the mighty EL11/EL39 combo _-_ matches these 88s for impressive delivery in *all* areas you care to name. Back from PP&M to slightly more recent fare, I couldn't believe how different Kate Bush's 'The Whole Story' sounded today...confirming my recent assertion that my Euforia is indeed now sounding like a completely different amp, and which at times is almost a little disconcerting lol(!)...being a departure from what I've known for such a long time. However, I wouldn't trade this 'new' sound for anything!! ...especially after basking in her 'Wuthering Heights'; 'The man with the child in his eyes'; 'Army Dreamers' and my favourite : 'Babooshka'!! Soundstage especially is nothing short of _surreal_, and totally addictive lol ....CJ

ps. The stage of those 2 tracks you posted must also be something else via our Euforia/KT88 setup!...


----------



## Johnnysound (Dec 7, 2019)

4 x Genalex Gold Lion KT77s...already fully burned in.  I am not sure if the silicone rings do something or not, but they fit snugly...and the quad sounds absolutely great.  As I said in my previous post, I have more than a few “New Sensor” Russian tubes of various types (not KT88s !)  so I am used to their sound, and the GL KT77s are the best sounding of them all...including the mighty TS KT150s.  I mean, as triodes in Euforia.  Clean, clear, dynamic, spacious, with deep_, _tight bass, and (most important) with a lot of the midrange “magic” of the classic EL34s.   The GL 77s are true beam tetrodes, and (critics say) the most accurate reproduction to date of the original, legendary  Genalex KT77, an scarce and super expensive tube, even more so than the original KT88s.

They enjoy glowing reviews, but (as allways) it all depends on the amp being used.  They certainly sound great in Ultralinear amps like my PA,  (also in SE amps)  and I must add that they are even better as triodes in the OTL Euforia.

As powers In my PA, bass was super strong & deep ( a bit too much for my tastes)  but in Euforia  their “triode bass” was way more controlled, precise, musical, while being some of the _deepest_ bass ever from this amp. I do not value that much the “strongest” bass, like the thunderous one from the KT150s, (probably without peer in this regard) but the most precisely defined.  In fact, the 77s deep bass taxed my Senns HD579s to their limit...clearly a job for higher cans. Anyway, the KT77s quad proved fantastic as preamp tubes, with soul, life, “punch” and not a trace of the usual “dryness” of most new production tubes...


----------



## chrisdrop

I bet someone _here_ will know... 

What is the mu or amplification factor on the EL39s? I can't find a good datasheet on those valves.

I think the EL11s are 25. If that is wrong, someone please correct me 

Tx!


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 7, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> 4 x Genalex Gold Lion KT77s...already fully burned in.  I am not sure if the silicone rings do something or not, but they fit snugly...and the quad sounds absolutely great.  As I said in my previous post, I have more than a few “New Sensor” Russian tubes of various types (not KT88s !)  so I am used to their sound, and the GL KT77s are the best sounding of them all...including the mighty TS KT150s.  I mean, as triodes in Euforia.  Clean, clear, dynamic, spacious, with deep_, _tight bass, and (most important) with a lot of the midrange “magic” of the classic EL34s.   The GL 77s are true beam tetrodes, and (critics say) the most accurate reproduction to date of the original, legendary  Genalex KT77, an scarce and super expensive tube, even more so than the original KT88s.
> 
> They enjoy glowing reviews, but (as allways) it all depends on the amp being used.  They certainly sound great in Ultralinear amps like my PA,  (also in SE amps)  and I must add that they are even better as triodes in the OTL Euforia.
> 
> As powers In my PA, bass was super strong & deep ( a bit too much for my tastes)  but in Euforia  their “triode bass” was way more controlled, precise, musical, while being some of the _deepest_ bass ever from this amp. I do not value that much the “strongest” bass, like the thunderous one from the KT150s, (probably without peer in this regard) but the most precisely defined.  In fact, the 77s deep bass taxed my Senns HD579s to their limit...clearly a job for higher cans. Anyway, the KT77s quad proved fantastic as preamp tubes, with soul, life, “punch” and not a trace of the usual “dryness” of most new production tubes...



Thank you for sharing these impressions. I have just installed and begun evaluating 2 GL KT88 powers driven by 2 GL KT66 into Elise. 1st impression is that these provide amazing clarity, detail, soundstage with by far the most realistic instrument placement I've ever encountered. In a string quartet recording each instrumental voice emanates from a distinct and well-defined space. Tonality is nicely musical but in this early stage a bit dry / clinical, hoping for a bit more euphony with further burn-in.  If that doesn't occur I may try the TS 7581A as drivers, and of course per @hypnos1 amd @connieflyer at some point may acquire two more GL KT 88's to run as a quad.

it would be interesting to hear if anyone has tried KT88 as powers driven by KT77 in search of the best charactersitcs of KT88 (detail, stage, extension and overall "authority" for lack of a better word) with the KT77 midrange "magic" decribed above by @Johnnysound  of the KT77. In any case, this journey with our amps is certainly great fun and musically rewarding. Thanks to all for the great input shared on this forum.


----------



## Scutey

Those GL KT88 should warm/sweeten up after some decent burn in @LoryWiv , mine in the early stages sounded exactly as you've described, they now sound wonderfully sweet without loosing any clarity or detail. Also like you I'm interested in the KT77 too, especially after @Johnnysound excellent review, I must admit I might well get some next week.

On another note, again after @Johnnysound's review I've managed to pick up a used quad of TS KT150 in what appears to be excellent condition off you know where for £41, so far, they seem like a bargain, I can't really add much  from what has been said but so far am really enjoying them, very clear, clean, big, full, muscular sound, and very dynamic,great extension at both ends, bass goes super deep, but is also very clean, no bloom/bloat,mids are also very detailed and full, less sweet than either KT66 or 88, I wouldn't call them refined but they are most certainly giving a fun sound!, also I have to say greatly improved when driven by a pair of NOS GEC KT66, which just give them a bit of extra body and tone.


----------



## LoryWiv

Still burning in and evaluating the sound qualities, but one thing that is immediately apparent is that KT88 driving KT66 in Elise is visually majestic to behold:


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> 4 x Genalex Gold Lion KT77s...already fully burned in.  I am not sure if the silicone rings do something or not, but they fit snugly...and the quad sounds absolutely great.  As I said in my previous post, I have more than a few “New Sensor” Russian tubes of various types (not KT88s !)  so I am used to their sound, and the GL KT77s are the best sounding of them all...including the mighty TS KT150s.  I mean, as triodes in Euforia.  Clean, clear, dynamic, spacious, with deep_, _tight bass, and (most important) with a lot of the midrange “magic” of the classic EL34s.   The GL 77s are true beam tetrodes, and (critics say) the most accurate reproduction to date of the original, legendary  Genalex KT77, an scarce and super expensive tube, even more so than the original KT88s.
> 
> They enjoy glowing reviews, but (as allways) it all depends on the amp being used.  They certainly sound great in Ultralinear amps like my PA,  (also in SE amps)  and I must add that they are even better as triodes in the OTL Euforia.
> 
> As powers In my PA, bass was super strong & deep ( a bit too much for my tastes)  but in Euforia  their “triode bass” was way more controlled, precise, musical, while being some of the _deepest_ bass ever from this amp. I do not value that much the “strongest” bass, like the thunderous one from the KT150s, (probably without peer in this regard) but the most precisely defined.  In fact, the 77s deep bass taxed my Senns HD579s to their limit...clearly a job for higher cans. Anyway, the KT77s quad proved fantastic as preamp tubes, with soul, life, “punch” and not a trace of the usual “dryness” of most new production tubes...



Hi J...and thanks for your very interesting comments on the GL KT77, and glad you love the sound as quartet in Euforia - yet another wonderful tube for our amps (and us!) to enjoy . Plus, from the sound of it, further grist to the KT77 vs KT88 debate lol! 

I myself continue to be so enthralled with each and every one of my stalwart favourite test tracks/albums that I'm finally happy to say that my tube experimentation/testing is truly at an end...but I look forward to others' findings of perhaps a mix using these KT77s. 

Once again, who would ever have dreamt that we could use these tubes to such great effect in our OTL amps...particularly as both driver or power, and _especially_ as a quad lol!!  And once again also, many thanks indeed must go to @ZRW0 for setting us on this trail by suggesting I try converting the 7581A...the rest is now history! 

ps. Any thoughts about trying the KT88 yourself J? From the sound of it you've already got quite an arsenal of tubes lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

I had an unhappy surprise this evening with loud hum upon powering on my amp. I re-seated all tubes and adapters, and now the music is splendid with a hum free, inky black background. Hopefully just a transient gremlin.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you for sharing these impressions. I have just installed and begun evaluating 2 GL KT88 powers driven by 2 GL KT66 into Elise. 1st impression is that these provide amazing clarity, detail, soundstage with by far the most realistic instrument placement I've ever encountered. In a string quartet recording each instrumental voice emanates from a distinct and well-defined space. Tonality is nicely musical but in this early stage a bit dry / clinical, hoping for a bit more euphony with further burn-in.  If that doesn't occur I may try the TS 7581A as drivers, and of course per @hypnos1 amd @connieflyer at some point may acquire two more GL KT 88's to run as a quad.
> 
> it would be interesting to hear if anyone has tried KT88 as powers driven by KT77 in search of the best charactersitcs of KT88 (detail, stage, extension and overall "authority" for lack of a better word) with the KT77 midrange "magic" decribed above by @Johnnysound  of the KT77. In any case, this journey with our amps is certainly great fun and musically rewarding. Thanks to all for the great input shared on this forum.





Scutey said:


> Those GL KT88 should warm/sweeten up after some decent burn in @LoryWiv , mine in the early stages sounded exactly as you've described, they now sound wonderfully sweet without loosing any clarity or detail. Also like you I'm interested in the KT77 too, especially after @Johnnysound excellent review, I must admit I might well get some next week.
> 
> On another note, again after @Johnnysound's review I've managed to pick up a used quad of TS KT150 in what appears to be excellent condition off you know where for £41, so far, they seem like a bargain, I can't really add much  from what has been said but so far am really enjoying them, very clear, clean, big, full, muscular sound, and very dynamic,great extension at both ends, bass goes super deep, but is also very clean, no bloom/bloat,mids are also very detailed and full, less sweet than either KT66 or 88, I wouldn't call them refined but they are most certainly giving a fun sound!, also I have to say greatly improved when driven by a pair of NOS GEC KT66, which just give them a bit of extra body and tone.



Hi guys...great to hear you too are loving what these KTs can do for our amps. And yes LW, as S says, they do develop nicely over time - in _all_ areas. In my own setup, the quad GL KT88s are truly superb, and with no lacking whatsoever in the mids I personally therefore feel no need at all for any more from the KT77, so shall pass on those. But I look forward to what anyone else may find using these, especially perhaps as drivers to the 88 . What is still confounding me about the KT88 quad - along with so much else! - is a soundstage construction that has me wondering how on earth 'just' another tube can in fact create something so magical compared to anything I've ever heard before...complete with yes, that amazing positioning of all music elements within a multi-dimensional frame...truly delicious!! 

And so I say WELL DONE to all who have joined this latest (blazing!) trail...may others also follow suit, now these KT tubes have been so emphatically vindicated...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> I had an unhappy surprise this evening with loud hum upon powering on my amp. I re-seated all tubes and adapters, and now the music is splendid with a hum free, inky black background. Hopefully just a transient gremlin.



Hi LW..._loud_ hum often is indeed due to poor seating/connection in the amp or adapters...otherwise not a good sign lol!  Am so glad it was the former in your case!!  And hope you now remain trouble-free...BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning,  I have a quetion for those that are using the Kt's.  I noticed when I first got them, that I had to increase the volume know some over my normal tubes.  But I noticed the last few days, that with all the additional burning in, that I have turned the volume knob back some. Especially with the pre-amp outs.  Wondered if anyone else had noticed this or if this is just a fluke. It is almost as if the tubes through the burn in process, have loosened up and are galloping instead of trotting if that makes sense. Those KT150's are such great looking tubes, would love to hear a quad, may have to buy a second amp with a quad of those installed as a static piece, and use my original for the music!


----------



## connieflyer

If anyone is looking for one of these tubes,  one is available here 1x Philips MiniWatt E80CC Pinched Waist Smooth Nickel Plate New Tube in Orig Box on ebay for only $5909.00.  Yikes, that is getting way up there, you would be up a creek if you needed two!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning,  I have a quetion for those that are using the Kt's.  I noticed when I first got them, that I had to increase the volume know some over my normal tubes.  But I noticed the last few days, that with all the additional burning in, that I have turned the volume knob back some. Especially with the pre-amp outs.  Wondered if anyone else had noticed this or if this is just a fluke. It is almost as if the tubes through the burn in process, have loosened up and are galloping instead of trotting if that makes sense. Those KT150's are such great looking tubes, would love to hear a quad, may have to buy a second amp with a quad of those installed as a static piece, and use my original for the music!



Hi cf...me too - I'm sure those giant plates will take quite a while to 'wake up'...especially in new tubes, and only just ticking over in our amps (which bodes extremely well for a much longer than normal life, thank goodness! ).

As for the KT150s, I'm glad actually that @Scutey 's findings have confirmed my lack of eagerness to spend the amount of money usually asked for them lol!! 

ps. By the way S...congrats on also getting some NOS GECs - looks like you're infatuated by these KT tubes even more than I!! ...WELL DONE!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> If anyone is looking for one of these tubes,  one is available here 1x Philips MiniWatt E80CC Pinched Waist Smooth Nickel Plate New Tube in Orig Box on ebay for only $5909.00.  Yikes, that is getting way up there, you would be up a creek if you needed two!



Huh cf...for that kind of money I'd want _all_ components in *solid 24K* gold...at the very least lol! And I'm quite sure any improvement over our KT88s as driver would 
be only minimal indeed!! ...BFN...


----------



## OctavianH (Dec 8, 2019)

These KT tubes opened another era for our amps. I made today some interconnect cable rolling and found a good synergy with the one made from the Neotech NEI-2001. If with 6SN7 / 6AS7 I always preferred the DH Labs Air Matrix, here the NEI-2001 sounds very interesting and this reminded me about the Anniversary Edition. I wonder how these KT family tubes are sounding on it. Maybe @teknorob23 knows more about this and is able to try some KT88/KT88 or KT88/KT66.


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf...me too - I'm sure those giant plates will take quite a while to 'wake up'...especially in new tubes, and only just ticking over in our amps (which bodes extremely well for a much longer than normal life, thank goodness! ).
> 
> As for the KT150s, I'm glad actually that @Scutey 's findings have confirmed my lack of eagerness to spend the amount of money usually asked for them lol!!
> 
> ps. By the way S...congrats on also getting some NOS GECs - looks like you're infatuated by these KT tubes even more than I!! ...WELL DONE!...CJ


I must confess h1 the KT's are rather lovely tubes, and they sound gorgeous too, and with so many to choose from, I'm like a kid in sweet shop!, also I think I might have dragged my good friend @OctavianH with me too!.


----------



## OctavianH

Yep, I am there, in the beer shop and even if I know that Alcohol is not the answer I cannot stop trying new bottles. The potential of the KT family is very big and honestly, a game changer on the F.A. amps. I wonder what will happen if they will release an amp configured for KT88/KT66... and how many of us will buy it in the first day.


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## mordy (Dec 8, 2019)

I have been smitten with your enthusiasm for a quad of KT88 Gold Lion Russian Reissue tubes. Any suggestions for the best price in getting them, including shipping? Would consider good used ones if the price is favorable.
There is a site called Musician's Friend that has them in three different flavors - which one is for use in the Euforia?
They are labeled Soft, Medium and Hard and at different prices:
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acc...r-tube-sets/210083000386186?rNtt=KT88&index=1

Soft, medium, and hard style descriptions refer to break up modes of the tube for an overdriven guitar signal. The Genalex KT88 Tubes are soft-rated tubes that break up slow and have the highest amount of headroom, while hard-rated tubes break up easier and have the least headroom, yielding a heavier, harder distortion. Medium-rated tubes fall in between.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Yep, I am there, in the beer shop and even if I know that Alcohol is not the answer I cannot stop trying new bottles. The potential of the KT family is very big and honestly, a game changer on the F.A. amps. I wonder what will happen if they will release an amp configured for KT88/KT66... and how many of us will buy it in the first day.


You're not wrong Octavian, and even if alcohol (tubes) is not the answer, perhaps the wrong question is being asked . And a KT88/66 amp?, I think it would be a case of please join the queue!.


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## OctavianH (Dec 9, 2019)

mordy said:


> I have been smitten with your enthusiasm for a quad of KT88 Gold Lion Russian Reissue tubes. Any suggestions for the best price in getting them, including shipping? Would consider good used ones if the price is favorable.
> There is a site called Musician's Friend that has them in three different flavors - which one is for use in the Euforia?
> They are labeled Soft, Medium and Hard and at different prices:
> https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acc...r-tube-sets/210083000386186?rNtt=KT88&index=1
> ...



Hi @mordy

The link you posted takes me to the main page of the website and if I search I cannot find there KT88s.
The Genalex KT88s I bought here locally were around 60 EUR / piece. So I guess a similar offer in the USA is:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-Pl...Lion-KT88-tubes-BRAND-NEW-In-Box/153672239153
These look identical to mine and the price for the matched quad seems fine.


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## connieflyer (Dec 9, 2019)

Mordy, I bought mine from Upscale Audio   https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/power-tubes/products/gold-lion-kt88   match a pair or quad, 72 hour burn in, Feliks Audio US distributor. Same tube. I am using a quad also and love them


----------



## mordy

Lately I have revisited my Euforia; I am using some prehistoric set-up with a pair of 1954 Foton 6H8C and a near pair Sylvania 6080 (1966/1973 - same construction) eschewing the latest wunder tubes because I don't have them yet. Why not a better date matched set? This is what came up from my box of a dozen or so Sylvania 6080s, but I could find better matches if I wanted to. However, these two sound the same to me.
BTW, the amp sounds great - very nice.
However, I had it running the other day for a number of hours and felt that it got quite warm - the transformer housing reached 54C.
Being a stickler for cool running tube amps I decided to rig a cooling system. Since cost is no object I rummaged through the house and found a 3" fan salvaged from an outdated XP PC and an abandoned 12V wall wart from some old portable phone with the correct amperage rating . - Remember those? I even got rid of my landline and my wife and myself only use cell phones now. The biggest problem getting rid of the landline was psychological - how can you give up a phone number you had for 40 years? But the only ones using it were telemarketers, and I had had enough of robot calls... But I digress...

Inelegant, but effective (color matched lol):



I placed the fan over the convection slots on the amp chassis, drawing hot air away from the amp. It works very well - the temperature of the transformer housing has dropped 10C. Since the fan draws air from under the amp and through it I am sure that the internals run cooler as well.
Have fun!


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 9, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Yep, I am there, in the beer shop and even if I know that Alcohol is not the answer I cannot stop trying new bottles. The potential of the KT family is very big and honestly, a game changer on the F.A. amps. I wonder what will happen if they will release an amp configured for KT88/KT66... and how many of us will buy it in the first day.





Scutey said:


> You're not wrong Octavian, and even if alcohol (tubes) is not the answer, perhaps the wrong question is being asked . And a KT88/66 amp?, I think it would be a case of please join the queue!.



You know, guys, I myself have been pondering this one for a while now, but with certain reservations about just how much better it would/could actually sound...especially given the rather high price another such amp would cost, especially as an addition to our own amps lol!

The reason is two-fold :

1. The usual circuitry specification for these tubes is to run them much harder for greater output, and so if they were indeed pushed harder for headphone use, additional circuitry would no doubt be needed to then control/adjust this higher output...and so often, _less_ is actually more!

2. Following on from the above, @connieflyer showed me a while back a very interesting comment from a seasoned KT user on the subject of those who questioned the effective power output recommendations for use of the KT150. He mentioned that unless really needing the highest power from them, better performance (for audio use therefore) would come from running them much less hard - recommending even at just about *30%*!

But then, and even more interesting, he said that if that were one's choice, you would in fact be *better off using the KT88!!!*...(music to my ears lol ).

And so my inference from this is that our amps *are already doing that*, and with the rest of the circuitry obviously such that these tubes are operating at or near optimum, given the 88s especially display no hint of incompatible noise whatsoever plus a sensational performance, then I question whether much alteration to the topology would in fact be needed in the first place!

This is my own take on it anyway...and all I can say is that my own setup is so far ahead of anything previously, I feel no need whatsoever for _any_ amp configured specifically for these tubes...I'm more than happy to stick with my now _*UNIQUE EUFORIA!*_...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Lately I have revisited my Euforia; I am using some prehistoric set-up with a pair of 1954 Foton 6H8C and a near pair Sylvania 6080 (1966/1973 - same construction) eschewing the latest wunder tubes because I don't have them yet. Why not a better date matched set? This is what came up from my box of a dozen or so Sylvania 6080s, but I could find better matches if I wanted to. However, these two sound the same to me.
> BTW, the amp sounds great - very nice.
> However, I had it running the other day for a number of hours and felt that it got quite warm - the transformer housing reached 54C.
> Being a stickler for cool running tube amps I decided to rig a cooling system. Since cost is no object I rummaged through the house and found a 3" fan salvaged from an outdated XP PC and an abandoned 12V wall wart from some old portable phone with the correct amperage rating . - Remember those? I even got rid of my landline and my wife and myself only use cell phones now. The biggest problem getting rid of the landline was psychological - how can you give up a phone number you had for 40 years? But the only ones using it were telemarketers, and I had had enough of robot calls... But I digress...
> ...



Hey mordy...why on earth go to all this (rather ugly) trouble lol? Forget it and look forward instead to an amp that runs barely warm; sounds far superior and looks a million dollars...sporting 4x KT88s of course!! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## mordy

You are right - but it takes time....


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, just to let you know that fate/providence does indeed work in mysterious ways...for today, _my latest GL KT88 died on the operating table!!
_And which was rather unexpected, as it worked perfectly in my adapter lol. Given I was also extra careful with this one, I wasn't very amused when the tube's innards began to glow a beautiful blue...fine in normal power tube use, but *deadly* in our own case! Thankfully, it wasn't accompanied by a loud BANG/FLASH (but probably would have been had I not watched like a hawk, with hand on the power switch ready for immediate shut off). Obviously, my procedure was stressful enough to loosen some connection inside that wasn't 100%...moral of the tale? : _treat your tubes as gently as humanly possible!!_ (Actually, it surprises me constantly that more tubes don't suffer badly from long journeys and less-than-sympathetic delivery people! ).

Anyway, to ease my sorrow, I scoured the net for something interesting and lo and behold, there on ebay UK were two very nice looking used GEC TT21s - basically the KT88 but with top cap anode...so no problem for yours truly (actually, my EL39 adapter that I can easily modify already even has the required wire...jackpot!).

And my sorrow was completely washed away when I read on Tubeworld that the TT21 was regarded as *better than the Genalex* (ie. original)..._double_ jackpot!!  And which reinforces my own findings of top cap anode versions of a tube indeed performing that bit better than standard. So naturally, I have renewed excitement at what the next few days may possibly bring lol...and the comforting thought that this would probably have never happened had I not managed to kill a precious tube!! 

And so folks, a couple of pics of said beauties I managed to get for a tiny fraction of what they would normally cost, even used ones...(and they look in fabulous condition, to my eyes at least...so thanks be to the Gods ) :

  

BFN...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> You are right - but it takes time....



Hi m...and it sure will be worth the wait, mon ami...


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## mordy (Dec 9, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi m...and it sure will be worth the wait, mon ami...


Hi h1,
What do you say about these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-GEC-TT22-VERY-NICE-12V-KT88-GENUINE-ENGLAND-VINTAGE-
	

VALVES-TT21/283703649892?hash=item420e0e2664:g:lF0AAOSwsmdd7R32


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 9, 2019)

Well H1 I have high expectations for the GEC TT21 as well. One probably can't go wrong with original brand and top caps. And I'm taking it you found a better price than this mention of it last month, which was going for $3,000 per tube.

Maybe somehow your KT88 mishap was a sign, leading to something better.


----------



## connieflyer

These are 12 v Mordy   
RARE QUAD OF VINTAGE GEC TT22

SAME AS GEC TT21 OR KT88 BUT 12V


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## DecentLevi (Dec 9, 2019)

mordy said:


> (...) I even got rid of my landline and my wife and myself only use cell phones now. The biggest problem getting rid of the landline was psychological - how can you give up a phone number you had for 40 years? But the only ones using it were telemarketers, and I had had enough of robot calls... But I digress...
> 
> Inelegant, but effective (color matched lol):
> 
> ...


I always much preferred a landline for a more analogue phone call experience with better clarity and vivid vocals that cell phones and cordless phones just can't match. Most calls these days are never truly analogue though unless both parties are on a landline, and with the advent of social media, voice calls are phasing out anyway so I've forgone mine as well. At least many offices still use VOIP which IMO does pull off an analogue sound very nicely even though it's digital.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> What do you say about these?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-GEC-TT22-VERY-NICE-12V-KT88-GENUINE-ENGLAND-VINTAGE-
> 
> ...



Yo mordy...but as @connieflyer pointed out, they're 12V heaters, not 6.3V. And it'll be very interesting to see what they finally go for lol!!


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Well H1 I have high expectations for the GEC TT21 as well. One probably can't go wrong with original brand and top caps. And I'm taking it you found a better price than this mention of it last month, which was going for $3,000 per tube.
> 
> Maybe somehow your KT88 mishap was a sign, leading to something better.



Yo DL...got mine for relative peanuts, thank goodness! But that crazy price certainly would seem to indicate a very sought after/highly regarded tube lol .

And yes indeed...my mishap could well lead to something _much_ better...(if that's at all possible, given the stellar performance I'm getting from these Russian GL KT88s!! )


----------



## mordy

Can’t keep up with you - thought that the KT88 was the end game, and now there are other alternatives already.....
ECC31/FDD20 
EL3N
EL11
EL11N
EL32
EL38
EL39
KT66
KT88
TT21
It never ends! There are 13,000 types of tubes......
PS: Did I leave something out?


----------



## connieflyer

It is simple, just climb the next mountain!


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> It is simple, just climb the next mountain!


Getting a bit old to climb mountains - seriously, was hoping for a one time, final, expense. I have no problem experimenting with $2 tubes, but $60 tubes makes me think more than twice, especially since you need 4 of them and 4 adapters as well.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Can’t keep up with you - thought that the KT88 was the end game, and now there are other alternatives already.....
> ECC31/FDD20
> EL3N
> EL11
> ...



Yep mordy...quite a roll call, to be sure lol!  But you did indeed leave something out - the mighty C3g and EL12/12 Spezial! And all attesting to Euforia and Elise's amazing flexibility and versatility in the tubes that can be used (successfully) in them .

As for 'The Never Ending Story', all I can say is I hope and pray this *is* the 'end', m...along with most other folks, no doubt!! ...(am ignoring that horrendous figure you mentioned!). I simply cannot imagine any other tube (that we can use in our amps) surpassing the KT88...unless, perhaps, my eagerly awaited TT21s...(am fascinated to see just what they can actually bring to the table, especially given their normally scary prices lol). Speaking of which, the very helpful ebayer I bagged my first 2 TT21s with got back to me with the news he had one more, but with lower plate reading and broken locating lug for £45...guess my reply!! (especially as we don't need the full potential output of these tubes anyway). So that makes £175 for three of these (supposedly!) wunder tubes...not the crazily low price you got your KT150s for @Scutey(!!), but perhaps a better buy in the end if they do indeed prove to be 'better than the (original, legendary) Genalex KT88' ...will keep y'all informed...CJ


----------



## triggsviola

mordy said:


> Can’t keep up with you - thought that the KT88 was the end game, and now there are other alternatives already.....
> ECC31/FDD20
> EL3N
> EL11
> ...


I’m still running the stock tubes and I’m still loving it!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> It is simple, just climb the next mountain!



Hey cf...no more mountains...*please!!!*  I too am getting older by the day lol! 



mordy said:


> Getting a bit old to climb mountains - seriously, was hoping for a one time, final, expense. I have no problem experimenting with $2 tubes, but $60 tubes makes me think more than twice, especially since you need 4 of them and 4 adapters as well.



I hear you m...these are indeed _not_ 'cheap' tubes. But compared to the silly prices often asked for so-called 'audiophile' tubes, I personally rate the KT88 especially right up there with the best of them, and therefore still at a 'bargain' price. And with a plentiful supply of the Russian reissue Gold Lions - especially if you're prepared to go for some of the lower priced ones available, you can always wait for some more folks' reports on them in our amps and in different systems before taking the plunge lol......CJ


----------



## hypnos1

triggsviola said:


> I’m still running the stock tubes and I’m still loving it!



Lucky you, triggs...once this bug bites big time, it's a mixed blessing to be sure lol!!  But it's been a journey I personally wouldn't have missed for anything, and has brought with it a much deeper understanding of these glass wonders of ours...albeit with occasional disappointments, not to mention a murmuring wallet!! ...

Here's wishing you continued HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Lucky you, triggs...once this bug bites big time, it's a mixed blessing to be sure lol!!  But it's been a journey I personally wouldn't have missed for anything, and has brought with it a much deeper understanding of these glass wonders of ours...albeit with occasional disappointments, not to mention a murmuring wallet!! ...
> 
> Here's wishing you continued HAPPY LISTENING...CJ



It would be interesting perhaps a little later in the thread to see what we have all decided is our favourite combination 7581/KT66/KT88. And wether said combination is good for all genres. Personally I'm awaiting second pair of KT88's so still undecided.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning,  I have a quetion for those that are using the Kt's.  I noticed when I first got them, that I had to increase the volume know some over my normal tubes.  But I noticed the last few days, that with all the additional burning in, that I have turned the volume knob back some. Especially with the pre-amp outs.  Wondered if anyone else had noticed this or if this is just a fluke. It is almost as if the tubes through the burn in process, have loosened up and are galloping instead of trotting if that makes sense. Those KT150's are such great looking tubes, would love to hear a quad, may have to buy a second amp with a quad of those installed as a static piece, and use my original for the music!


I am interested in this as well, noting the KT88 - KT66 pairing requires higher volume settings to achieve similar loudness versus more conventional tubes in my Elise. It is not generally problematic but at times the sound feels a bit less robust than I'd like at lower volumes with the KT's. Is it likely this aspect will "self-correct" over time?


----------



## connieflyer

I have noticed over the last 50 hours or so,  it does not take as much volume increase like it did in the beginning.  Also, noticed that it is not as warm (never really warmmmmm)  it seems to run a little cooler after six or seven hours.  Not much, but I noticed this the last few days.


----------



## OctavianH

I've used my IR thermometer to find out at what temps are these tubes operating. If the 6SN7 <-> 6AS7 combos were like 60C <-> 150C the KT66 <-> 7581A are around 90-100C <-> 60-70C. These measurements are not precise, but just to have an idea, I guess they are fine.
So the output tubes are 50% colder but the drivers go a little bit over the 6SN7. Measurements were made after 3 hours of listening, on this setup:


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> I am interested in this as well, noting the KT88 - KT66 pairing requires higher volume settings to achieve similar loudness versus more conventional tubes in my Elise. It is not generally problematic but at times the sound feels a bit less robust than I'd like at lower volumes with the KT's. Is it likely this aspect will "self-correct" over time?


It appears to me that the mu (multiplifaction factor) is lower in these tubes and hence you need a higher volume setting to achieve the same loudness. Have not been able to find the mu for the KT tubes. As long as you get enough volume for your needs without distortion I don't think it matters.
I have made the same observation as cf on a number of occasions - as a tube burns in it operates at a lower temperature compared to when new.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> It would be interesting perhaps a little later in the thread to see what we have all decided is our favourite combination 7581/KT66/KT88. And wether said combination is good for all genres. Personally I'm awaiting second pair of KT88's so still undecided.



Ah bt...the somewhat IMHO vexed question re. 'genre suitability/preference' of different tubes.

For a long time now I have thought this an often confusing/contradictory subject, and am fast coming to the suspicion that given tubes that can all basically do most things extremely well, it isn't in fact the *tube/genre* that should be the focus but the *rest of one's gear* and how it all interacts in final delivery...more so even than personal preference. When you have various tubes that are_ fairly _equal in handling bass/treble/attack/speed/timing/dynamics etc., with masterly control and balance, then it would seem logical IMO to assume that it is actually the _*recording*_ that will determine the overall sound effect...the degree depending, once again, upon the rest of one's system. This is my own take on the subject anyway...for what it's worth lol .



LoryWiv said:


> I am interested in this as well, noting the KT88 - KT66 pairing requires higher volume settings to achieve similar loudness versus more conventional tubes in my Elise. It is not generally problematic but at times the sound feels a bit less robust than I'd like at lower volumes with the KT's. Is it likely this aspect will "self-correct" over time?



Hi LW. These tubes do all need higher volume settings than those configured for, but as @connieflyer says, this may alter somewhat over time. The precise amount will also depend upon the input level from source/DAC of course (and which will probably also affect slightly the 'robustness' you mention, especially at low volume levels). 
I also suspect this could be partly a factor in the difference between Elise and Euforia...such differences IMHO being greater than sometimes realised by folks lol!  And as with my statements above, different systems are also surely going to be a factor in this aspect of sound delivery.... I myself for example have only ever been pleasantly surprised at maintenance of superlative performance even at low listening levels. 

Whatever, I do hope that this aspect eventually moves closer to your own preferences...but I will say that the quad KT88 combo does take everything up at least 1 notch, and a good few areas _more_ than 1 lol ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I've used my IR thermometer to find out at what temps are these tubes operating. If the 6SN7 <-> 6AS7 combos were like 60C <-> 150C the KT66 <-> 7581A are around 90-100C <-> 60-70C. These measurements are not precise, but just to have an idea, I guess they are fine.
> So the output tubes are 50% colder but the drivers go a little bit over the 6SN7. Measurements were made after 3 hours of listening, on this setup:



Hi OH...what really counts of course is the temperature of the _amp_ and its internal _components_. My own amp (case) runs even cooler with these KT tubes than with the ELs which had every single internal component running 10 deg C cooler, and the area immediately below the trafo a massive *20 deg C* cooler!! Something that appeals to me enormously...especially as an added bonus to all the KTs' other virtues lol .


----------



## OctavianH

I was just curious about the temps these are reaching, because after all, using adapters, I guess the impact of the heat on the amp is reduced. But indeed, these KT tubes have many virtues. I am a believer.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Can’t keep up with you - thought that the KT88 was the end game, and now there are other alternatives already.....
> ECC31/FDD20
> EL3N
> EL11
> ...


I'm actually considering KT77 driving KT88 powers as my next iteration to try. @Johnnysound had good things to say about a quad of these, thought I'd try 2 driving the KT88 before upping the ante.


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## Scutey (Dec 10, 2019)

Quick update on the KT150. I would describe it as an impact tube, a super sub, not an all rounder, but get the genre/recording right and they sound spectacular, they seem to go well with hard rock/metal, well recorded contemporary jazz, and most types of electronica, as @Johnnysound mentioned they do need a warm driver, else they can sound too, clinical, aggressive, both the 7581A and GEC KT66, warm them up enough without sacrificing, the great drive they have. Also it's worth mentioning the Euforia chassis doesn't seem to get much warmer than with the KT88 either, I get the impression that despite the big muscular sound they're barely ticking over.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 12, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you for sharing these impressions. I have just installed and begun evaluating 2 GL KT88 powers driven by 2 GL KT66 into Elise. 1st impression is that these provide amazing clarity, detail, soundstage with by far the most realistic instrument placement I've ever encountered. In a string quartet recording each instrumental voice emanates from a distinct and well-defined space. Tonality is nicely musical but in this early stage a bit dry / clinical, hoping for a bit more euphony with further burn-in.  If that doesn't occur I may try the TS 7581A as drivers, and of course per @hypnos1 amd @connieflyer at some point may acquire two more GL KT 88's to run as a quad.
> 
> it would be interesting to hear if anyone has tried KT88 as powers driven by KT77 in search of the best charactersitcs of KT88 (detail, stage, extension and overall "authority" for lack of a better word) with the KT77 midrange "magic" decribed above by @Johnnysound  of the KT77. In any case, this journey with our amps is certainly great fun and musically rewarding. Thanks to all for the great input shared on this forum.



Yes LW, will surely test the KT77s/ KT88s combo as soon as I receive my new 88s, which btw are not GLs but the newest “super premium” Shuguang GEKT88...as much as I like the GLs, my PA is warm sounding itself, and the GEKT are supossedly very neutral, open and lively...we’ll see.



Scutey said:


> Those GL KT88 should warm/sweeten up after some decent burn in @LoryWiv , mine in the early stages sounded exactly as you've described, they now sound wonderfully sweet without loosing any clarity or detail. Also like you I'm interested in the KT77 too, especially after @Johnnysound excellent review, I must admit I might well get some next week.
> 
> On another note, again after @Johnnysound's review I've managed to pick up a used quad of TS KT150 in what appears to be excellent condition off you know where for £41, so far, they seem like a bargain, I can't really add much  from what has been said but so far am really enjoying them, very clear, clean, big, full, muscular sound, and very dynamic,great extension at both ends, bass goes super deep, but is also very clean, no bloom/bloat,mids are also very detailed and full, less sweet than either KT66 or 88, I wouldn't call them refined but they are most certainly giving a fun sound!, also I have to say greatly improved when driven by a pair of NOS GEC KT66, which just give them a bit of extra body and tone.



Hi Scutey, a quad of KT150s for £41 is not a bargain, but a true gift !!  And I concur absolutely with your impressions, exactly the same as mine: these are excellent sounding power tubes in Euforia, specially when driven by a pair of “classic” drivers that really improve their sound with more body and warmth. I wish I had a pair of NOS GEC KT66, but in the meantime a pair of Valvos EL11s did the job very nicely...



hypnos1 said:


> Hi J...and thanks for your very interesting comments on the GL KT77, and glad you love the sound as quartet in Euforia - yet another wonderful tube for our amps (and us!) to enjoy . Plus, from the sound of it, further grist to the KT77 vs KT88 debate lol!
> 
> I myself continue to be so enthralled with each and every one of my stalwart favourite test tracks/albums that I'm finally happy to say that my tube experimentation/testing is truly at an end...but I look forward to others' findings of perhaps a mix using these KT77s.
> 
> ...



Hi CJ, as said above will soon try the 88s...only a “new” flavor, not exactly the GLs.  Upon extended listening to the quad of GLKT77s, my initial impressions are confirmed, and I came to the conclusion that the 77 is a different animal from the classic EL34: yes, a good bit of the latter famous midrange, but the similarities end there.  The 77s are NOT polite or “laid back” sounding in any way, not so dense but more nimble,  lively and direct, very dynamic, detailed, with “fast” bass. Remarkable sound for a “new production” tube.  While as a preamp this kind of sound was ideal to balance my tube PA slightly “warm” character, with my Senn HPs the sound was decidedly on the sharp, upfront, “hi rez” side of things:  extremely clear, crisp, detailed, with soaring highs and deep,  punchy bass.  As tastes go, you may say a bit “forward”, maybe without  that ultimate touch of refinement or “relaxation” of some NOS tubes, but a lot of fun !!


----------



## LoryWiv

Johnnysound said:


> Yes LW, will surely test the KT77s/ KT88s combo as soon as I receive my new 88s, which btw are not GLs but the newest “super premium” Shuguang GEKT88...as much as I like the GLs, my PA is warm sounding itself, and the GEKT are supossedly very neutral, open and lively...we’ll see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went ahead and ordered a pair of GL KT77's to drive my GL KT88's and have high hopes for this combo. in Elise. I'll report out once they arrive and I have a bit of time to evaluate.


----------



## Scutey

Johnnysound said:


> Hi Scutey, a quad of KT150s for £41 is not a bargain, but a true gift !! And I concur absolutely with your impressions, exactly the same as mine: these are excellent sounding power tubes in Euforia, specially when driven by a pair of “classic” drivers that really improve their sound with more body and warmth. I wish I had a pair of NOS GEC KT66, but in the meantime a pair of Valvos EL11s did the job very nicely...


Indeed it is Johnnysound, for the price I paid I thought there had to be something wrong with them but no, so far, so very good, the seller also sold a quad of TS KT120's, they sold for £28!, I have a pair of Valvo EL11 and sound very good with them too, but if you have the chance, I will heartily recommend the GEC KT66 it has the classic, British tube sound, they give the 150, great weight and presence, whilst also being very detailed and holographic, they sort of polish the 150 without diluting what makes it such a great power tube.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 12, 2019)

*


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## Afsa

Hello Guys 

i would really like to try the KT88 on my Euforia. But i have no experience with tube rolling. 
Do i need an Adapter to use the new tubes or can i just slot them in? 
Thx for your help in advance


----------



## Scutey

Afsa said:


> Hello Guys
> 
> i would really like to try the KT88 on my Euforia. But i have no experience with tube rolling.
> Do i need an Adapter to use the new tubes or can i just slot them in?
> Thx for your help in advance


Hi Afsa, and welcome to the Euforia thread!. In answer to your question, yes, you will need adapters to use the KT88, or for that matter the KT66/77 (same adapter) etc, here's a link for the adapters.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold-6L6-7581-instead-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter-For-Elise-Euroria-amp/193142155772?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## OctavianH

Or if you prefer to order an adapter from Europe you can contact @Deyan 

These are adapters made by him:


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## Afsa

Scutey said:


> Hi Afsa, and welcome to the Euforia thread!. In answer to your question, yes, you will need adapters to use the KT88, or for that matter the KT66/77 (same adapter) etc, here's a link for the adapters.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold-6L6-7581-instead-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter-For-Elise-Euroria-amp/193142155772?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649





OctavianH said:


> Or if you prefer to order an adapter from Europe you can contact @Deyan
> 
> These are adapters made by him:



Thank you for your answers.
And can I just populate all 4 Slots with for example these tubes https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/gold-lion-kt88-genalex/russia?number=NN-GL-KT88-MQ ?
Or do i have to use different power and drivetubes?


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## OctavianH (Dec 12, 2019)

Yes, you need to order 4 adapters and you can put 4 x KT88 Gold Lion on Euforia (the ones from your link). See here a post related to such a configuration:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-496#post-15343710


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## Afsa (Dec 12, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Yes, you need to order 4 adapters and you can put 4 x KT88 Gold Lion on Euforia (the ones from your link). See here a post related to such a configuration:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sheeps-clothing.831743/page-496#post-15343710



well thats perfect thank you very much


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Or if you prefer to order an adapter from Europe you can contact @Deyan
> 
> These are adapters made by him:



Hi OH...and thanks for showing us these particular adapters. I must admit I do like that he uses wire instead of PCB in them, but I personally have never liked the type of pin receptors used in those sockets. This type was in the early Elise's sockets (don't know if they were later changed - hope they were lol!), and due to the receptor's basic design proved especially unsuitable for extensive tube rolling...grip would gradually reduce and provide less than good connection with the tube's pins. I personally got fed up with prising the 'jaws' back together to ensure a nice tight fit, and made sure that one of my recommendations to F-A for an upgraded amp (which became Euforia) was for much better sockets, with receptors that made and maintained a much better pin contact...(and actually, they supplied Euforia with some of the best gold plated sockets [Teflon] you can buy).

And so, something folks might want to watch out for if doing a lot of tube rolling lol


----------



## hypnos1

Afsa said:


> Hello Guys
> 
> i would really like to try the KT88 on my Euforia. But i have no experience with tube rolling.
> Do i need an Adapter to use the new tubes or can i just slot them in?
> Thx for your help in advance



Hi Afsa and a belated welcome from me too.

Congrats on getting the Euforia, and again for going straight to the top of the class with 4x KT88s lol! ...it's taken the rest of us _years _to get here!! 
Glad to see others have already answered your question re. the need for adapters...so GOOD LUCK in the near future (not that you'll need luck...it's a sure fire thing ). Please keep us informed as to progress when the time comes...CJ


----------



## Afsa

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Afsa and a belated welcome from me too.
> 
> Congrats on getting the Euforia, and again for going straight to the top of the class with 4x KT88s lol! ...it's taken the rest of us _years _to get here!!
> Glad to see others have already answered your question re. the need for adapters...so GOOD LUCK in the near future (not that you'll need luck...it's a sure fire thing ). Please keep us informed as to progress when the time comes...CJ



Thank you for the welcome. I've had the Euforia for a bit under a year now. I thought that it's time to go to the next level. 
After following this thread on and of looking for the next step. And now with the topic of these KT88 coming up and all reports being very positive.

Maybe early next year I can upgrade! 
I will post here if it happens.


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## penguinofsleep2 (Dec 12, 2019)

Borrowed this amp for 2 weeks in the summer. Used with and without an upgraded PSU, stock tubes. Below based on previous stream of consciousness notes:
*
Summary:
Not called Euforia by accident - has a very relaxing and euphoric feeling to the sound.* Very bloomy, lacks a little resolution and sound stage in the same way a BH Crack with SB does (but I also still really like BH Crack with SB). Stereotypical tube coloring, distortion, etc. all very audible here. Slightly warm sound. Mind blowing synergy with Focal Clear and Utopia. I think Feliks very deliberately made a bloomy and colored amp that doesn't chase technicalities and succeeded.*This amp is a great example of maybe not measuring well with metrics or yardsticks (see number below), but still sounding good overall. *It could also be viewed as when you put too much of a good thing or too much main ingredient, like soda that is a little too sweet or a mixed drink with too much of the alcohol component. All demonstrating that audio cannot be compressed into a few check boxes and numbers. I'm actually fine with this and don't think every amp should try to play the same game - variation in amps is needed. I haven't heard any other amp that sounds like this one. Great tonality and voicing and *not fatiguing at all*, better than pretty much anything I've ever tried $1k-2500 in this respect.

Miscellaneous sound problems such as running too hot, poor user interface, background noise, hum, channel imbalance, volume knob issues, tube socket issues, etc are mostly non-existant. Great desktop size. Would also be a great pre-amp if you want the color and Feliks knows this with it's addition of pre-amp outs.

I don't think this should be $2600 (+ possible tax and shipping) though. It would compete well against other amps at approximately $1500 though and from what I understand, that's what they used to cost.

*Categories out of 10*. Not all categories mentioned so if something seems to be missing or in the wrong category, oops. Note 5/10 means average (think bell curve normal distribution), not 50% meaning you get a F.
Low Level Detail / Plankton / Texture - 3 -  missing some. I can hear say an acoustic guitar or cello string reverberate, but I can’t clearly hear say all the weird nuances in an individual cellist’s plucking, bow pull, cello itself, etc.
Microdynamics - 3-3.5 - Imagine graininess or vocal fry in a voice. You can hear it here, but you can’t hear all the little changes in the vocal fry. All the color, vibrato, and natural unevenness and variation in a voice isn't really there. Imagine pulling on a cello on a long note without perfectly even pressure during the pull - it’s harder to hear on this amp.
Macrodynamics - 4 - Impacts enough that you enjoy the music, but it seems purposely suppressed (is it even possible to suppress only this?) to better match the overall sound of the amp. As a matter of fact, I actually think with the voicing of this amp, it’d be weird if were closer to a 8.
Transients - 5.5 - Not better because decay seemed a little fast. Transitions between notes and sounds are still clean. Also, not quite transients, but I didn't like this amp with busy music as things kind of blur together.
Stage - 3.5 - Small, kind of around my head, but not claustrophobic or so small it sounded fake
Layering - 6 mid treble and below / 5 upper mid treble and above- I can tell where things are vertically. It isn’t like 3-5 planes stacked on top of each other as it is with some amps. Depthwise a little weaker, it’s maybe 5-10 planes stacked behind each other and you can kind of tell if it's one plane or another. Fullness of sound is average.
Black background - 8. Quiet background noise audible on amp with Clears after about 3:30 - louder than I’ll ever listen. Transformers seem sufficiently isolated - did not pick up random noise or other transformers very close by.
No Fatigue - 9.5. Subjective per listener, but better than my Stellaris for me… and Stellaris is very strong here, probably a 9.
Tonal Balance - 7 for balance, 9 for "fun" and tone. Note that with forward vocals are here, there are going to be some things you just don't hear as well due to getting somewhat drowned out.
Treble - 7 - Good, but missing some ultimate clarity, microdynamics, plankton, and treble doesn’t seem to layer as well. Color that resides in upper treble (think cymbals) odd to me too.
Mids - 8. Very smooth. Clearest part of spectrum on this amp. Good overall. Upper-ish male vocals and lower to mid ranged female vocals are great and exceptionally smooth. Screams in metal lose their uummppp and power. Actually, anything that needs some bite isn't there. Vocals and enunciation all sound streeetttched out on this amp (regardless of other gear used).
Bass - 4 not much slam, doesn’t do deep bass that well, mids and upper bass OK. Bass lines not clearly separated at times. Lacked some texture. Mid bass thumps but somehow not slappy. Exception to this is Focal Clears - both get better - not in technicalities, if you listen closely, you can tell it's the signature fixing issues with Focal Clears, but who really cares that it’s smoke and mirrors as the sound is so enjoyable.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Yep, I am there, in the beer shop and even if I know that Alcohol is not the answer I cannot stop trying new bottles. The potential of the KT family is very big and honestly, a game changer on the F.A. amps. I wonder what will happen if they will release an amp configured for KT88/KT66... and how many of us will buy it in the first day.



The new McIntosh MC901 dual mono loudspeaker amp uses 8 KT88 powers for mids / upper frequencies and solid state for low end (bi-amp. design). Didn't note pricing but pretty sure I won't be buying it on the 1st day or any day thereafter, but it speaks well of the KT88 that this iconic manufacturer of high-end audio components selcted it for their new amp.


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Hi OH...and thanks for showing us these particular adapters. I must admit I do like that he uses wire instead of PCB in them, but I personally have never liked the type of pin receptors used in those sockets. This type was in the early Elise's sockets (don't know if they were later changed - hope they were lol!), and due to the receptor's basic design proved especially unsuitable for extensive tube rolling...grip would gradually reduce and provide less than good connection with the tube's pins. I personally got fed up with prising the 'jaws' back together to ensure a nice tight fit, and made sure that one of my recommendations to F-A for an upgraded amp (which became Euforia) was for much better sockets, with receptors that made and maintained a much better pin contact...(and actually, they supplied Euforia with some of the best gold plated sockets [Teflon] you can buy).
> 
> And so, something folks might want to watch out for if doing a lot of tube rolling lol



Ok, in this case I will not recommend them here again. In my case, I had problems with the ones from China, so I will prefer these.


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## LoryWiv (Dec 13, 2019)

OctavianH said:


> Ok, in this case I will not recommend them here again. In my case, I had problems with the ones from China, so I will prefer these.



I'm also having good results with @Deyan's adapters, but will be on the watch for pin connection loosening. @hypnos1 would one be able to detect this loosening audibly or by some other means?


----------



## Deyan

LoryWiv said:


> I'm also having good results with @Deyan's adapters, but will be on the watch for pin connection loosening. @hypnos1 would one be able to detect this loosening audibly or by some other means?



Well last for at least 500-700 cycles.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Ok, in this case I will not recommend them here again. In my case, I had problems with the ones from China, so I will prefer these.



Hi OH...yes indeed, there have been occasional problems with Mrsx's adapters, but given the total numbers sold, it seems that most folks are happy with them (and she does appear to replace any faulty ones without question). These things can unfortunately by their nature be sometimes prone to unforeseen problems...it's quite difficult to (try to) ensure 100% long term reliability especially. But at least one has a choice lol! ...(I personally would still never use the type of socket in question though, but then, I'm a fussy bugger!! ).



LoryWiv said:


> I'm also having good results with @Deyan's adapters, but will be on the watch for pin connection loosening. @hypnos1 would one be able to detect this loosening audibly or by some other means?



Hi LW..._reduced_ connection might be noticed by some as very slight loss in performance, but worse loosening will produce obvious distortion noise/crackling that sometimes can be cured by reseating the tube, but is only likely to be temporary...the receptor(s) will need to be prised back to make tighter contact. My advice therefore would be to *not* do too much tube rolling in such a socket...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi OH...yes indeed, there have been occasional problems with Mrsx's adapters, but given the total numbers sold, it seems that most folks are happy with them (and she does appear to replace any faulty ones without question). These things can unfortunately by their nature be sometimes prone to unforeseen problems...it's quite difficult to (try to) ensure 100% long term reliability especially. But at least one has a choice lol! ...(I personally would still never use the type of socket in question though, but then, I'm a fussy bugger!! ).
> 
> 
> 
> Hi LW..._reduced_ connection might be noticed by some as very slight loss in performance, but worse loosening will produce obvious distortion noise/crackling that sometimes can be cured by reseating the tube, but is only likely to be temporary...the receptor(s) will need to be prised back to make tighter contact. My advice therefore would be to *not* do too much tube rolling in such a socket...CHEERS!...CJ



Thanks, I will be vigilant but also note @Deyan's encouraging response above. So far works a like a charm!


----------



## hypnos1

Hi @penguinofsleep2 .

As always it's interesting to hear others' personal opinions of any item of gear...here it's Euforia of course! 

Coming from a DNA Stellaris in the region of $7000 or so, methinks this might just have influenced slightly your assessment of the more lowly Euforia lol?! 

Whatever, I'm glad you found this amp enjoyable, but I feel duty bound to question the number of areas that you stated as below 'average'. This is in total contrast to not only many user reviews but also a good few independent ones, who definitely rate this amp _above_ average in nearly all areas.

It's also a shame you listened only with stock tubes...very few serious listeners with amps at this level of performance stay with stock for very long. NOS conventional tubes often bring substantial improvements, and for some years now I personally have been fortunate enough to discover many non configured-for tubes that address any and all of the areas that you found below par...the latest especially taking Euforia way above stock performance, confirming this amp's true _potential_.

I would also be interested in knowing which $1500 amp(s) would match Euforia...I myself haven't yet seen any independent reviews on such a comparison.

True, $2600 is now quite a high price compared to the bargain we early adopters enjoyed, but this is unfortunately no doubt the price of larger scale, global retail supply with the associated commercial imperative. And as far as I know, $2600 is in fact the final retail price in the US (via UpscaleAudio), complete with taxes. The European price is about $2224 (1999 Euros) for the 'Gold' version, and $222 less without tubes.

And so for any onlookers who may be interested in the Euforia, I can only suggest you do further research on others' findings re. this extremely good amp and as usual, try to come to some kind of general concensus. Better still, try to have an audition and make your own judgment!


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks, I will be vigilant but also note @Deyan's encouraging response above. So far works a like a charm!



That's good news LW...and I wish you many years of trouble-free use lol . 

Given the superlative performance of these latest KT tubes, I can't help feeling it would be well worth while pulling out all the stops with the required adapters, using upgraded components...the extra cost would be worth every penny IMHO!


----------



## DecentLevi

penguinofsleep2 said:


> Borrowed this amp for 2 weeks in the summer. Used with and without an upgraded PSU, stock tubes. Below based on previous stream of consciousness notes:
> *
> Summary:
> Not called Euforia by accident - has a very relaxing and euphoric feeling to the sound.* Very bloomy, lacks a little resolution and sound stage in the same way a BH Crack with SB does (but I also still really like BH Crack with SB). Stereotypical tube coloring, distortion, etc. all very audible here. Slightly warm sound. Mind blowing synergy with Focal Clear and Utopia. I think Feliks very deliberately made a bloomy and colored amp that doesn't chase technicalities and succeeded.*This amp is a great example of maybe not measuring well with metrics or yardsticks (see number below), but still sounding good overall. *It could also be viewed as when you put too much of a good thing or too much main ingredient, like soda that is a little too sweet or a mixed drink with too much of the alcohol component. All demonstrating that audio cannot be compressed into a few check boxes and numbers. I'm actually fine with this and don't think every amp should try to play the same game - variation in amps is needed. I haven't heard any other amp that sounds like this one. Great tonality and voicing and *not fatiguing at all*, better than pretty much anything I've ever tried $1k-2500 in this respect.
> ...



I started to agree with your review about the cost and I can name a few that (may / subjectively) have even better performance with stock tubes at around $1500.
But I would seriously question if you were getting the most out of the Euforia. Were any of the following conditions met?
- Was it the 2018 Euforia v2?
- Aftermarket tubes? (no)
- Did the amp have at least 150 hours burn-in?
- Which headphones were you using? Some of the better pairings are HD-579, HD-600, HD-800, Beyer. T1 and Empyrean
- Were you using a good DAC with lossless well mastered songs?
- Aftermarket RCA interconnects and headphone cable?
- Isolating power cord and/or power conditioner?

All of the above for basically everybody who tried it have brought incremental improvements, and for me in addition to all of the above I also have a custom externally-heated setup that I swear by (although still quite cautious in terms of limiting session time, current draw and external cooling with a fan). The sound I'm getting now is world class and up there with the big boys, seriously making me wonder whether I've surpassed the likes of Eddie Current Zana Deux and comparable to Quad PA One+, though not quite up to the likes of DNA Stratus or WA33.


----------



## DecentLevi

In case anyone's interested to take the plunge for GEC TT21, here's a rare deal on a pair, no bids yet and ending in 7 hours. All these need is a custom adapter, from Deyan perhaps. I would get it but funds don't permit so I'll let someone else have 'em
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Vintage-GEC-TT21-KT88-Beam-Tetrodes/143464710316


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## hypnos1 (Dec 14, 2019)

Well @DecentLevi , I had been making offers on these but they were declined. And they ended up going for £212...too rich for me, but still a good price given the crazy prices others are going for lol! 

And if anyone here managed to bag them and has my EL39 adapters...*they work as is*_, _no need for any modification at all ...CJ

Edit : correction re. the EL39 adapters...the top cap diameter of the TT21 is larger than the EL39, and so the adapter's anode wire would indeed have to be modified to take a larger connection cap...


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## penguinofsleep2 (Dec 15, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @penguinofsleep2 .
> 
> Coming from a DNA Stellaris in the region of $7000 or so, methinks this might just have influenced slightly your assessment of the more lowly Euforia lol?!
> 
> ...



I did mention other amps starting at $100 (EDIT: Oops no I didn't, mixed up with another recent post) and my rating system being a bell curve and not flat out pass/fail %. I am also of the opinion that when everything is great or above with no flaws mentioned I could substitute the word amp for any other noun and the review would have the same value - i.e. the review doesn't help me anymore. So the review is not a masked criticism. My conclusion of it being a good but very colored amp that isn't for everyone or every application still stands. Lastly, I mention the numbers aren't everything, they're a small part of the picture. This is also why I don't read most magazines / blogs / influencers / writers / etc. - few companies want to send gear to a magazine/publication that will talk openly about what could be perceived shortcomings. But for consumers, it's hard to triangulate how something will sound if it isn't properly contrasted against other offerings on the market and results in wasted time/money.

For reference, I wouldn't say that my Stellaris, which is my favorite headphone amp that I've heard to this date, is 10/10 or even 9/10 in every category for me. It also doesn't match my preference in house sound, etc. (ideal house sounds to me are closer to Cavalli LC or EC Aficionado, which themselves are very different from each other but I don't have only 1 favorite sound) but despite not being able to do well in terms of just a few numbers or preferred house sound, Stellaris is so strong overall in all areas it overrides my personal flavor preferences to still be my favorite amp. So again, point being, metrics aren't everything to me.

Regarding cost - $2600 for amp + $200-300 for upgraded power supply (which IMO made a huge difference in terms of improving technicalities whereas tubes changed the sound signature), I'm at $3k. I'd rather buy several EC Aficionado or Studio Jr for a few hundred more, ECP T4 ($2k + $300 for more tubes) or 3F ($2700?), DNA Starlett ($2k) or Stratus ($3.2k???) and neither DNA amp really needs tube upgrades, or maybe even a WA22 ($2500?) + $400-500 on tubes. This is just stuff that's currently in production.

However, if we price Euforia at $1500, it would be competitive against many tube or SS offerings at $1500 (including used stuff). At this point it would IMO come down to what sound you want. Stuff that comes to mind are BH kits at $1500 (after upgrades and parts), T3 with upgrades, some of the older EC stuff, DNA Sonnett, some of the old Cavalli stuff, and most of the Woo stuff. Ampsandsounds stuff under $2k excluded as they have IMO a very unique relax-fi house sound that is perfect if that's what you want but not ideal if it you want say neutrality or sparkle. Kind of like Euforia is perfect if you want a bloomy euphoric house sound but may not be ideal for a tight energitic sound.


Don't know how to do inline replies in color so my replies are in _*bold italics*_:


DecentLevi said:


> ...
> - Was it the 2018 Euforia v2? - *Amp was new production as of summer 2019 as far as I can tell*
> - Aftermarket tubes? *No, stock PSVane gold tubes and Svetlana tubes.*
> - Did the amp have at least 150 hours burn-in? - *yes, it was used by several people before me. I think the first guy did at least 100 hours and he ended up buying a Euforia for a pre-amp afterwards.*
> ...


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## hypnos1

Thanks for your comprehensive reply @penguinofsleep2  and yes indeed, one has to scrutinise any reviews very closely indeed to come to some kind of concensus as to an item's basic abilities. And this is where a good many different user reviews/opinions are very useful as each will be in quite different *systems* which, of course, will provide a more realistic 'everyday' guide for folks who will also have different preferences and _hearing!_ One single  person's assessment is, I'm afraid, valid as a _guide_ only.

I would also suspect that _any_ amp is going to really need some form of _good_ mains conditioning/filtering, unless one's mains supply is extremely interference free (likely impossible!) and in an environment totally devoid of any EMI/RFI...again, likely impossible. And which will therefore necessitate extra expense.

Upgraded cables is certainly a contentious issue, but it would appear that many with really good gear do in fact still recommend going for much better quality ones.

Re. "tubes changed the sound signature", I presume you mean they _would_, as you said you only used stock?? My own experience, and that of those who have used other (NOS) tubes and especially a good few non configured-for ones has proved that improvements have been achieved in many other areas than simply 'signature'.

In conclusion, I would repeat that the best course of action is for one to actually audition any amp oneself, preferably in the company of a good few alternatives. Sadly, this is easier said than done of course...especially as that ideally, one needs to listen in one's own surroundings and with one's own associated gear!!


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## OctavianH

Some interesting stuff about KT66/KT88. For me it was a pleasant read, so I share the link for anyone who is interested in a bit of history and information:
https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm#KT66


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## Afsa

OctavianH said:


> Some interesting stuff about KT66/KT88. For me it was a pleasant read, so I share the link for anyone who is interested in a bit of history and information:
> https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm#KT66



Thank you very much for this Article. As discussed in this Thread im planing on buying KT88 and now i can search for some good ones with more information.


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## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Some interesting stuff about KT66/KT88. For me it was a pleasant read, so I share the link for anyone who is interested in a bit of history and information:
> https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm#KT66


Looks like an very interesting read, thanks for posting!.


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## penguinofsleep2 (Dec 15, 2019)

Should make a small note and corrected my post as well that I mixed up the PSU swap with a different amp I tried around the same time. See post above.

And yes, meant to say tubes* would *change sound signature.


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## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Some interesting stuff about KT66/KT88. For me it was a pleasant read, so I share the link for anyone who is interested in a bit of history and information:
> https://jacmusic.com/KT88/kt88.htm#KT66


Appreciated, @OctavianH. The author is not too keen on the business practices, testing methodology or quality control of Genalex Gold Lion from New Sensor. That said, my GL KT88's have around 100 hours now as powers in Elise and I am enjoying them more and more.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 16, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Appreciated, @OctavianH. The author is not too keen on the business practices, testing methodology or quality control of Genalex Gold Lion from New Sensor. That said, my GL KT88's have around 100 hours now as powers in Elise and I am enjoying them more and more.



Yes indeed LW...regardless of any criticism that might be aimed at the Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, I myself am finding them _extremely_ good and have no qualms about them whatsoever lol .
After @Johnnysound 's mention of the reissue KT77 being closer to the original than the new 88 is, on further examination of their plates those of the KT77 certainly do look much closer to the original...both being more solid (ie. no holes).. By contrast, all the reissue KT88s appear to have plates with *holes*, as opposed to the original GECs being _solid_. It would appear therefore that perhaps no original GEC plates were available for the new production teams, but on looking around it seems to me that the _round_-holed plates of the Russian Gold Lions might possibly be American stock from the *RCA 6550*...they look identical to me. And if so, this would be no bad thing, given the traditional respect for the 6550 tube.
Whatever, I personally still rate the Russian reissue GL very highly indeed...

Now then guys, I have some news that might just be of interest to those who may want to take the KT88 route that bit further, and reinforces @Scutey 's admiration of the original GEC KT tubes...but this time re. the 88.

I have now given my 3x GEC TT21s a good long test run, and am pleased to say that firstly, as a driver pair to Gold Lion KT88 powers the difference is not minimal. To begin with, I thought 'not bad' but not night and day difference. However, as time passed with more varied test pieces I began to notice improvements in more and more areas...ie. in overall presentation; tonal range; more textured bass; even sweeter treble (but still detailed); even more mids detail...(actually, more detail across the entire FR); even tighter control of the timing and pace. Indeed, with regard to PRaT one of the greatest surprises came with very fast runs of instrument and drums...I wasn't just carried along as if by an Express train, this was Japanese _*Bullet Train!*_ It was all I could do to keep up, and there was no hint of loss of control or detail. All these aspects, especially the last went up a tad more with the third TT21 in one of the power slots.

I suppose one could call the overall sound a typical 'British' one...but of the highest quality category - ie. smoooth; refined; detailed; not clinical; low fatigue; well balanced with excellent cohesion and precise positioning. And add to this a soundstage to match anything else out there IMHO....(depending upon the rest of one's system of course!). Plus, although very smooth in the bass department also, it's in no way boomy/loose...on the contrary, it is deep; solid; controlled and well textured...with similar qualities also in the superb mids which again are in no way 'bloomy' as far as I'm concerned lol 

And so as drivers to the Gold Lion KT88s these GEC TT21s are simply superb...and given these are basically the GEC KT88 but with top anode cap, I suspect the latter must sound pretty well the same, even if the TT21 may have the slight edge! 

Anyway, enough for now, better go keep the better half company...so BFN folks. And another pic to show the current state of affairs...which will alter slightly when my GEC KT*22 *(Edit* - T*T22!) arrives (a 12V version of the 21), and which should prove very interesting in place of the lone GL KT88!!



Enjoy the rest of your weekend guys...CJ


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## mordy

Scutey said:


> Looks like an very interesting read, thanks for posting!.


Read most of the article - a rear earful!
Disturbing to read about so many quality problems and fakes. Was thinking of going for the GU50 but they are 12V tubes; however, the price is in my range - around $20 for a quad shipped.
PS: Just saw that you are getting the 12V version of the KT88 - how about trying the GU50?


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## DecentLevi (Dec 16, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed LW...regardless of any criticism that might be aimed at the Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, I myself am finding them _extremely_ good and have no qualms about them whatsoever lol .
> After @Johnnysound 's mention of the reissue KT77 being closer to the original than the new 88 is, on further examination of their plates those of the KT77 certainly do look much closer to the original...both being more solid (ie. no holes).. By contrast, all the reissue KT88s appear to have plates with *holes*, as opposed to the original GECs being _solid_. It would appear therefore that perhaps no original GEC plates were available for the new production teams, but on looking around it seems to me that the _round_-holed plates of the Russian Gold Lions might possibly be American stock from the *RCA 6550*...they look identical to me. And if so, this would be no bad thing, given the traditional respect for the 6550 tube.
> Whatever, I personally still rate the Russian reissue GL very highly indeed...
> 
> ...


Congratulations are on order CJ, you certainly must be having a singular experience with the TT21's on your Euforia. Is the signature any brighter than before? Sometimes the top-cap tubes can add a little brightness to the mix somehow, and often more 'clinical'. However fantastic the results with TT21 however, this will appear to be reserved for those few especially lucky ones that are able to scour a pair at a reasonable price and not for the masses due to their rareness and cost. And TT22... how will you adapt that 12v tube, and why would you still want it with all that you've got?

PS- I think you meant to say GEC TT22 not KT22 on your post above


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## LoryWiv

While awaiting GL KT77 I've ordered to drive my GL KT88, went back to the TS 7581A as drivers. Really enjoying this combination, less clinical than the KT66 driving KT88. There is still plenty of detail and speed, but more "sweetness"  for lack of a better word. A really engaging listen with classical piano music, my favorite genre overall. It is nice to have such appealing new production options with our gear, given the pricing and "hit or miss" nature of NOS. Thanks to the contributors on this forum for bringing these possibilities to light!


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## hypnos1 (Dec 16, 2019)

mordy said:


> Read most of the article - a rear earful!
> Disturbing to read about so many quality problems and fakes. Was thinking of going for the GU50 but they are 12V tubes; however, the price is in my range - around $20 for a quad shipped.
> PS: Just saw that you are getting the 12V version of the KT88 - how about trying the GU50?



Hi m. Dat's me awaiting the 12V TT22 version of the GEC KT88 and I too have been pondering the GU50 ever since Johnnysound made reference to JAC's article on the KT88 et al a while back. But I didn't like the mention of need for different biasing...although our amps must already (presumably) be applying a different voltage to normal use (although it can't be too far off, given the total absence of any hint of incompatibility lol!).

As for JAC's rubbishing of the Russian Genalex *GOLD* (not _Golden - _he doesn't even get the name right!) Lion, I personally would rather go by the _majority_ view in the user community being much more positive, apart from the occasional problem...hence the recommendation to stick with a reliable supplier who has tested the tubes with pre burn-in and has a reputation to maintain (as per @connieflyer .


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## hypnos1 (Dec 16, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Congratulations are on order CJ, you certainly must be having a singular experience with the TT21's on your Euforia. Is the signature any brighter than before? Sometimes the top-cap tubes can add a little brightness to the mix somehow, and often more 'clinical'. However fantastic the results with TT21 however, this will appear to be reserved for those few especially lucky ones that are able to scour a pair at a reasonable price and not for the masses due to their rareness and cost. And TT22... how will you adapt that 12v tube, and why would you still want it with all that you've got?
> 
> PS- I think you meant to say GEC TT22 not KT22 on your post above



Hi DL. Yes indeed, I'm getting more impressed by the hour with these GEC TT21s...and I must add that I'm super impressed by how they make the Russian Gold Lions perform as powers. Even with 3x TT21s treble isn't at all bright...if anything even _sweeter!_ (than the GLs, don't know about the GEC KT88).To the point where I would say that for those who like much more 'bite'/hardness to their music, these tubes - as with most of the usual 'British' tube sound, may well be too 'polite'!  But if a well-rounded; smooth; refined; detailed, impeccably balanced performance is your cup of tea then you'll be in Heaven with these...as with the 'normal' GEC KT88 no doubt.

With the TT22 (thanks for the correction...was getting tired by the end of my dissertation!), I shall be using what worked superbly in the past ie. a 12V (6A) laptop charger/battery. Last time I had to connect its negative wire to the mains plug's earth to kill hum, but I suspect may not have to this time, given my now Balanced Mains Unit power supply. And I shall need it to make up the quad of GEC KT88 variants...if only to see just how much more they bring compared to using 2x Gold Lions as powers. Would have liked another TT21, or a couple of GEC KT88s, but the prices are just too crazy now...especially with the Gold Lions performing so well...CJ

ps. Will simply cut off the heater pins of my adapter and run the 12V wires to the tube pins'/adapter socket interface (making sure the cut off pins' remnants don't touch the amp's socket lol!! ).


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## connieflyer

Have to agree with  CJ. When you buy from an authorized dealer you often pay a few dollars more for them, if you look for a dealer that Burns in his power to choose and test them after burn and and matches them up so you know that hes checking the tube and writing down the qualifications on the tube it may cost you a little bit more but it will save you a lot more in the long run. Using the KT66 and the KT88 that I purchased from upscale audio I have not had one hint of trouble with them. Plus I know the tubes were checked and burned in and guaranteed. Upscale audio in the US is 1 of the largest tube distributors in the country. The to manufacturers know that when he orders in large number of tubes that he is going to go through each and every 1 of them and any badd tube is going to go back if he finds the manufacture that sends too many bed tubes through he won't buy from them anymore. He is an artist and easy to deal with distributor and I found over the last year that he is honest and does what he says his word means something. Plus you have to figure Felix audio trusted him to be his US distributor. They had to do a little bit of checking to get that up. But good luck, any time you buy a pig in a poke you get what you get


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## hypnos1 (Dec 16, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Have to agree with  CJ. When you buy from an authorized dealer you often pay a few dollars more for them, if you look for a dealer that Burns in his power to choose and test them after burn and and matches them up so you know that hes checking the tube and writing down the qualifications on the tube it may cost you a little bit more but it will save you a lot more in the long run. Using the KT66 and the KT88 that I purchased from upscale audio I have not had one hint of trouble with them. Plus I know the tubes were checked and burned in and guaranteed. Upscale audio in the US is 1 of the largest tube distributors in the country. The to manufacturers know that when he orders in large number of tubes that he is going to go through each and every 1 of them and any badd tube is going to go back if he finds the manufacture that sends too many bed tubes through he won't buy from them anymore. He is an artist and easy to deal with distributor and I found over the last year that he is honest and does what he says his word means something. Plus you have to figure Felix audio trusted him to be his US distributor. They had to do a little bit of checking to get that up. But good luck, any time you buy a pig in a poke you get what you get



Well said cf...the more I ruminate on that JAC article re. the KT88, as far as I'm concerned it raises almost as many questions as answers given lol! 

For example, there's no mention whatsoever of performance details and/or comparison between different makes of tube. And as for boldly stating that the GU50 is 'better' than the (GEC) KT88 anyway - again with no mention that this will depend greatly upon each individual amp's circuit design and quality of construction, I'm afraid this sort of thing leaves me less than impressed! I have indeed seen some positive reviews from DIYers re. the GU50, but also an aficionado who was comparing this with the 300b and who stated *the KT88 performed 'better'* (than the GU50). So as usual, not so cut and dried lol!

Plus, his own rubbishing of the Russian reissue Gold Lion contradicts the findings of a good many users, as mentioned previously...not to mention us here!! 

Then there's the vexed question of the meanderings/ramifications re. the demise of the Svetlana/Saratov/Reflektor factories...especially when the New Sensor Corp became involved. The whole sorry saga would appear to be far more convoluted/complex than the JAC article would have us believe...again, a case of incomplete reporting that doesn't impress me either I'm afraid.

And so once again, my personal advice to folks is to do one's own research - as extensively as possible - into different sources of information related to any particular item, be it tubes or _amps_ lol! And then, most important of all..._*trust your own ears*_...regardless of what _anyone_ else says!!! 

ps. @mordy , given the GU50 _might_ just be an interesting tube to try, and I'll have my 12V heater supply ready, their peanuts cost has tempted me to see what they're about...but thought I'd finished with this tube journey to tell the truth!!  Ah well, what can one do lol??!! ...CJ

Edit : pps. This experiment should be doubly interesting, given that if the GU50 is indeed "better than the KT88", I'm sure a good few KT88 lovers (and there's obviously _many_ of them lol) would be keen to try the dirt cheap GU50 and save themselves _hundreds_ of pounds/dollars...especially as different biasing would be easy on many of the amps used and (cheap) converters readily made to order from China??...time will tell...


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## connieflyer

His statement and the way he couches it, makes me suspect.  "These cannot directly replace KT88, because the bias setting is another, and also the sockets are another type. "  Sockets are also different, exactly how different, is it the pin out of spacing or dialectic or what?  I read the whole article and it would seem to be kind of negative over all.  I dealt with Jac Music years ago and was not impressed with customer service.  With Upscale Audio, Kevin Deal got back to me with answers in a few days.  One of the questions I had asked he had to get further information about and told me so. Good man to deal with. From his quotes.."Every power tube is different. This applies especially to power tubes like EL34, 6550, KT88’s, etc. Two tubes can be brand new in the original box, with one testing at [as an example] 6500 micromhos, the next one at 8600 micromhos. Both tubes would be considered "new" by the factory, and not defective. While the weaker tube isn’t "defective," it will certainly have a shorter life. So if you pay 10% less, you might get a tube with a significantly shorter life. The big lie from manufacturers of tube equipment and tube dealers themselves is that they “reject” these tubes. It’s not true. You can imagine the nightmare that would create for the tube factory if people are sending back 50% - 80% of the tubes that get shipped, coming back in all kinds of condition.

As the owner of Upscale Audio, a company that has supplied tubes into over 50,000 components, and someone obsessed with treating your amp like it’s my amp, I can tell you in no uncertain terms the factory doesn’t take them back. The only tubes they will take back are tubes that have shorts, gas, or measure BELOW the minimum number they assign for that tube type (it varies from type to type, so don’t bother trying to figure that out).

I’ve overcome that issue for you. I can say with calm assurance that we pay the factories more for our tubes than any other tube seller, and we ensure that we receive the absolute cream of the crop. This flies against the logic of how to run a business: The way you make money is to pay less for the goods you sell! That’s what most ANY business owner will tell you. We also don’t sell certain brands of tubes because while they might be cheap and sometimes good, they can be more trouble than they're worth. We pass on a lot of money as a result.

Upscale Audio is the only dealer that does what we do on a grand scale, and have a deep understanding of high end tube electronics. We’re the only dealer that manufacturers give a thumbs-up to, and recommend to their customers. And I promise you only the best.

- Kevin Deal "  My kind of guy to deal with. Pay a little more, you get what you pay for.


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## LoryWiv (Dec 16, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Have to agree with  CJ. When you buy from an authorized dealer you often pay a few dollars more for them, if you look for a dealer that Burns in his power to choose and test them after burn and and matches them up so you know that hes checking the tube and writing down the qualifications on the tube it may cost you a little bit more but it will save you a lot more in the long run. Using the KT66 and the KT88 that I purchased from upscale audio I have not had one hint of trouble with them. Plus I know the tubes were checked and burned in and guaranteed. Upscale audio in the US is 1 of the largest tube distributors in the country. The to manufacturers know that when he orders in large number of tubes that he is going to go through each and every 1 of them and any badd tube is going to go back if he finds the manufacture that sends too many bed tubes through he won't buy from them anymore. He is an artist and easy to deal with distributor and I found over the last year that he is honest and does what he says his word means something. Plus you have to figure Felix audio trusted him to be his US distributor. They had to do a little bit of checking to get that up. But good luck, any time you buy a pig in a poke you get what you get


Concur, @connieflyer. Indeed, Upscale Audio initially put a hold on my GL KT77 order because I specified it was for use in Elise, which of course isn't compatible w/o adapters. I explained that I understood this and tubes are now on the way. Ethan and Kevin were honest and transparent with me about warranty implications, and after my initial frustration, reason took over I recognized they are doing exactly what they should: communicating clearly and honestly with the customer rather than just making a quick sale. I have even greater respect now for Upscale and Kevin's integrity and honest business practices. Definitely worth a few dollars more.


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## connieflyer

I think that is what a distributor should do.  Inquiry "might" cost a sale, but could save some gear, and goes far toward customer service and loyalty


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## DecentLevi (Dec 17, 2019)

@hypnos1 One of my EL39's all of a sudden stopped lighting up. I thought that was quite strange since I didn't notice any gradual tube life decay. I narrowed the problem down to a faulty adapter, since the said tube worked with the other adapter, and said adapter worked with neither tube. I cleaned the sockets out and bent the sockets inward (tried twice) to improve clamping force, made sure the top cap was on snugly, even tried the good one without top connected and confirmed this wasn't the issue since it would still light up without the top connection... Hey Hypnos you didn't do hypnosis on EL39 now did you? 

Really strange how an adapter could die out of the blue even when it wasn't moving. Nevertheless your work is immaculate so no disrespect whatsoever on your fine work, this seems more like a fluke. I don't think I can open it with the glue you have in it. Maybe you have any way to mod the EL38 adapter from Xuling to make it work for EL39? Something that can hopefully be done without a soldering iron. I've got plyres, glue and wires at least. Those EL38's are basically obsolete with with 39's anyway... and for the KT88 route I'm not sure to take this on yet, with the performance I'm already getting from unorthodox combos.

PS - if you'd like I will delete this and send by PM


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## hypnos1 (Dec 17, 2019)

Hi @DecentLevi ...that's a strange one indeed as I do try to make sure all connections are permanent, with solder joints sealed in epoxy resin (apart from the pin ends of course!). I can only think that somehow or other a heater pin solder has failed, which could be tested for continuity with a multimeter to find which one is the culprit and if so resoldered. If this is beyond you or you have no-one you can call on to help out then by all means please return it to me (at my cost) and I'll remedy it, no problem...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Unfortunately the way Mrsx has configured the EL38 adapter means it can't be modified to take the EL39, unlike my own......


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## connieflyer

Well, I wonder if the adapter failure, was due in part to his constant tube meanderings, and some of the ridiculous tube and adapter combinations he tries to make it seem like he has a Eureka! moment.  I have had your adapters a lot longer, and many, many more including tube surgeries and have never had one fail.  And in good faith you even offer to fix this for him, at your expense, is over and above. I don't know of any distributor that would cover shipping that way. Even when I received my Euforia, it took box damage, I took photos, and showed the preamp out sockets were bent, even Feliks agreed to have me send it all the way back to Poland, at my expense, and they would fix it and return at their expense.  But I had to pay the way back at least.  You Sir, are above and beyond, in your ability and helpfulness. Sorry this has happened.  It surely was the wrong way to address a problem at the start. Really poor taste, and lousy judgement.


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## DecentLevi

Ever since receiving the GEC KT66's I've settled on two top power combos and roll tubes very rarely anymore so I don't really think your assertation of constant tube swapping seems the culprit here. Also any other presumptuous descriptors like above would completely fall to the wayside if you were to _actually _listen to my unconventional setups and hear the improvement, as well as see how my entire system remains in pristine condition after all this time. The adapter also had the same problem with a conventional setup.

H1 / Colin I got your PM and will continue it there after a bit. No biggie I would cover shipping cost anyway just in case somehow a fault could have been on my end.


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## teknorob23

It’s been a long 5 weeks


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## Scutey

Looking good!, and how does it sound?.

ps, If you're trying to make us jealous you might well be succeeding! .


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## teknorob23

Scutey said:


> Looking good!, and how does it sound?.
> 
> ps, If you're trying to make us jealous you might well be succeeding! .




Both tubes and amp have been out of their respective boxes for about 4 hours and i've just sat down not for my first gentle listen. First off its all quiet on the western front in terms of errant noise, which is a big relief. Sound-wise, there's so much "new" going on here. i've not heard these tubes before, i only listened to the amp for an hour and my old Euforia sold the day i ordered, BUT even box-fresh together tubes and amp sound pretty good and compared to straight out of the Hugo2, its lovely to have all this headroom back, stage is deep/wide, bass is surprisingly together and extended considering the newness. The mids and treble all there but are definitely in need some time to open up and sweeten.  

I'm sorry and i know i'm not in for much sympathy here , but as first world problems go,  being without a Euforia , while having four shiny KT88's burning holes in their boxes and reading daily about how great they are, has been pretty torturous


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## Scutey

Sounds like exciting times ahead @teknorob23 , all you need to do now is lock yourself away for a few weeks and soak up that new amp! .


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## Johnnysound (Dec 17, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Yes indeed LW...regardless of any criticism that might be aimed at the Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, I myself am finding them _extremely_ good and have no qualms about them whatsoever lol .
> After @Johnnysound 's mention of the reissue KT77 being closer to the original than the new 88 is, on further examination of their plates those of the KT77 certainly do look much closer to the original...both being more solid (ie. no holes).. By contrast, all the reissue KT88s appear to have plates with *holes*, as opposed to the original GECs being _solid_. It would appear therefore that perhaps no original GEC plates were available for the new production teams, but on looking around it seems to me that the _round_-holed plates of the Russian Gold Lions might possibly be American stock from the *RCA 6550*...they look identical to me. And if so, this would be no bad thing, given the traditional respect for the 6550 tube.
> Whatever, I personally still rate the Russian reissue GL very highly indeed...
> 
> ...





As GEC KT88 reproductions go, this Shuggie *GE*KT88 ( GE for GEC) looks like the most accurate with solid plates and triple getters, and not by looks alone...reviews are really good.  And you can get a _quad_ for less than the price of a _single _(used) original...


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## hypnos1

teknorob23 said:


> Both tubes and amp have been out of their respective boxes for about 4 hours and i've just sat down not for my first gentle listen. First off its all quiet on the western front in terms of errant noise, which is a big relief. Sound-wise, there's so much "new" going on here. i've not heard these tubes before, i only listened to the amp for an hour and my old Euforia sold the day i ordered, BUT even box-fresh together tubes and amp sound pretty good and compared to straight out of the Hugo2, its lovely to have all this headroom back, stage is deep/wide, bass is surprisingly together and extended considering the newness. The mids and treble all there but are definitely in need some time to open up and sweeten.
> 
> I'm sorry and i know i'm not in for much sympathy here , but as first world problems go,  being without a Euforia , while having four shiny KT88's burning holes in their boxes and reading daily about how great they are, has been pretty torturous



Hi tr...and congrats on waiting so long in patience (lol???!! )...and with a smidgeon of sympathy from us at least - if not _envy!!_ But wasn't it worthwhile...she looks a beauty. And once she, and those KT88s have burned in a good bit, I'm sure you're in for a real treat ...WELL DONE!...Looking forward to progress reports in due course..._orders!!_ ...CJ


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> As GEC KT88 reproductions go, this Shuggie *GE*KT88 ( GE for GEC) looks like the most accurate with solid plates and triple getters, and not by looks alone...reviews are really good.  And you can get a _quad_ for less than the price of a _single _(used) original...



Hi J. Those certainly do look interesting versions...and worth somebody giving them a try.

I'm afraid it won't be myself as the more I listen to my GEC TT21s, even though still only 3 at present, I'm already hooked on the sound from my system with these in situ...there's simply no going back now!  In addition to all aspects up yet another notch from the excellent Gold Lion KT88s, there's a supreme 'polish' from these TT21s that just screams pure _quality_, and almost beyond words lol. 

I realise I was very lucky indeed to bag these first 3 tubes for a fraction of the usual cost, along with the TT22 on its way...otherwise I could never have afforded this luxury. But I'm so impressed with these tubes that I've just blown £175 on a 4th TT21 that looks almost new, so still not _too_ bad a price given what many GEC KT88s are going for!  (Not to mention the TT21 seems to be 'the best of the best'??).

Anyway folks, all I can say is that for anyone with my EL39 adapters who's prepared to change the top cap connector for a larger one and can get lucky with a pair of these *GEC TT21s* at least as drivers to KT88s, then you'll have no need IMHO to break the bank for another amp..._ever!!_...they're that good ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## DecentLevi (Dec 18, 2019)

A bit of good news for Colin, myself included.
After a bit of careful inspection in different lighting and toying around with the adapter in question I had noticed the very tip of one of the pins was missing solder as if it appeared to have fallen off, causing a space about 1/2 the thickness of a hair between the wire inside it and the pin. Not having a soldering iron I had to apply a few rudimentary manual tricks with plyers, first I was able to bend the protruding wire barely enough to make contact with the pin again which wore off after one swap. Tried melting it for 2 seconds under a hot flame but pulled back before melting the plastic. Finally I went with applying just enough force with the plyers to slightly deform the very tip pin #7 to make contact with the wire inside again and wala - it's workin' like new again and still slides in just like before. I think for the next adapter there's gotta be a better way than applying solder to the tip of the pins. Anyway now we can put this past us and ring in the holidays in style!


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## Scutey

Johnnysound said:


> As GEC KT88 reproductions go, this Shuggie *GE*KT88 ( GE for GEC) looks like the most accurate with solid plates and triple getters, and not by looks alone...reviews are really good.  And you can get a _quad_ for less than the price of a _single _(used) original...


Yes I have spotted those as well, and from the feedback I've read, they sound promising too, if they are 85/90% of the originals sound for a fraction of the cost, they could be a no brainer.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Yes I have spotted those as well, and from the feedback I've read, they sound promising too, if they are 85/90% of the originals sound for a fraction of the cost, they could be a no brainer.



Hi S...90% of the originals?...very much doubt that lol!! ...especially with highly resolving systems and TOTL headphones. But at that price certainly worth a try for someone at least ...


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## hypnos1 (Dec 18, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> A bit of good news for Colin, myself included.
> After a bit of careful inspection in different lighting and toying around with the adapter in question I had noticed the very tip of one of the pins was missing solder as if it appeared to have fallen off, causing a space about 1/2 the thickness of a hair between the wire inside it and the pin. Not having a soldering iron I had to apply a few rudimentary manual tricks with plyers, first I was able to bend the protruding wire barely enough to make contact with the pin again which wore off after one swap. Tried melting it for 2 seconds under a hot flame but pulled back before melting the plastic. Finally I went with applying just enough force with the plyers to slightly deform the very tip pin #7 to make contact with the wire inside again and wala - it's workin' like new again and still slides in just like before. I think for the next adapter there's gotta be a better way than applying solder to the tip of the pins. Anyway now we can put this past us and ring in the holidays in style!



Thank goodness for that DL...heater pin contact seems to be the biggest source of problems for both tubes themselves as well as adapters. It's obviously the heat expansion that then causes the solder to break away. Unfortunately there's no really satisfactory alternative to (soft) solder - 'hard' solder needs far too high a heat to be safe alas. This problem is also what can have quite a few old tubes especially losing _any_ wire/pin contact, which can sometimes be remedied by said resoldering, but not always guaranteed!!

If you can't resolder it yourself, you might want to try wedging another piece of solid copper wire alongside the original, making sure it's no longer than Edit : *7.5*mm, say, and being extra careful to ensure it isn't pushing the original _back_ up the pin, as it needs to be a _really tight_ fit lol! Better still, if the original wire protrudes a bit just bend it over the edge of the pin to hold it in place while inserting the new piece of wire, then push the protrusion back so as not to foul the amp's socket and trim off any excess wire.

Anyway, glad you've found the culprit and hope the method I mentioned does the trick more permanently for you...or find a mate with a soldering iron who'll help you out ...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hi @DecentLevi ...please note my edit correction to my last post re. the length of copper wire used to wedge the original pin's wire...should be _*7.5mm*_...CJ


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## hypnos1

Hi again @DecentLevi .

Have been wondering why your particular adapter should be the only one of the many I've made to suffer (obviously) heat-related pin solder failure. And @connieflyer might well be correct in his assumption that your_ multi-adapter_ _(m-a)_ setups could possibly be playing a part in such a problem...viz you seem to combine the EL39 tubes with some that generate _much_ more heat, which will be getting transferred via the _m-a_ to the cooler running 39s (and their adapters) of course...much more so than when just these ELs are in our amps. This may well therefore place greater strain on both the tube and adapter, and be an unwanted by-product of such (non configured-for) multi-tube arrangements. There will _always_ be unforeseen consequences from going _way_ off 'normal' setups, as opposed to proven 'unconventional' (single) tube use, no matter how 'pristine' your own setup may _appear_ lol! 

Whatever, I hope you don't suffer any similar problems in the future......CHEERS!...CJ


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## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi S...90% of the originals?...very much doubt that lol!! ...especially with highly resolving systems and TOTL headphones. But at that price certainly worth a try for someone at least ...


Probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but no harm in wishing eh! .


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## mordy

Scutey said:


> Yes I have spotted those as well, and from the feedback I've read, they sound promising too, if they are 85/90% of the originals sound for a fraction of the cost, they could be a no brainer.


Read some posts about the Chinese Shuguang GEKT88 tubes where these percentages appear. However, most of those posts are around 10 years old or more, and I wonder if the KT88 landscape has changed since then?


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## Scutey

Possibly but in the absence  of more recent posts for this particular tube, it's all we've had to go on.


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## hypnos1

Scutey said:


> Probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but no harm in wishing eh! .



Hi S...don't we all love  - and hope for! - a real bargain lol?!!  Mine would seem to have come from one of my TT21s @ £45 and the TT22 also @ £45...but with a hefty £19 shipping cost, tracked from Denmark - a very expensive country lol! ...Still, who am I to complain at the total price?!  Hence my lessened angst at paying £175 for an almost new TT21!! 

But it just shows that bargains _can_ be found...just as with your KT150s lol. So, folks, _keep looking!!_...


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## Mh996

Does anyone here have experience running Tung Sol 7236 or 5998 as powers? I’ve been running EL39s/EL3Ns and powers and drivers, respectively, but it looks like the heating filament on one of the 39s has gone dead. I’d like to replace this with a Feliks-approved power tube. I’d be driving the Tung Sols with the stock PSVane Golds. So, does anyone have experience with either of those Tung Sol models, and how they compare to ELs as powers? Thanks.


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## connieflyer (Dec 18, 2019)

Hello m996  At one time I used the 5998 as powers with many different 6SN7 tubes and found it to be quite nice I enjoyed that quite a bit. Also use the 5998A and 6080s, but preferred the 5998 over the others. A good combination


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## LoryWiv (Dec 19, 2019)

Mh996 said:


> Does anyone here have experience running Tung Sol 7236 or 5998 as powers? I’ve been running EL39s/EL3Ns and powers and drivers, respectively, but it looks like the heating filament on one of the 39s has gone dead. I’d like to replace this with a Feliks-approved power tube. I’d be driving the Tung Sols with the stock PSVane Golds. So, does anyone have experience with either of those Tung Sol models, and how they compare to ELs as powers? Thanks.


I've tried both, with the important caveat that my FA is Elise, not Euforia, so YMMV. 5998 has a pleasant, non-fatiguing warm, euphonic sound but unless paired with very neutral, detail oriented drivers can be a little muddy, syrup-y IMO. 7236 is quite different, excellent detail retrieval, great stage and frequency extension but can be on the sterile / clinical side (some have described it as having solid-state characteristics). Overall, I liked the TS 7236 quite a bit in Elise paired with warmer drivers, I don't have experience with EL's for comparison. Good luck!


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## OctavianH

Mh996 said:


> Does anyone here have experience running Tung Sol 7236 or 5998 as powers? I’ve been running EL39s/EL3Ns and powers and drivers, respectively, but it looks like the heating filament on one of the 39s has gone dead. I’d like to replace this with a Feliks-approved power tube. I’d be driving the Tung Sols with the stock PSVane Golds. So, does anyone have experience with either of those Tung Sol models, and how they compare to ELs as powers? Thanks.



In Elise Tung Sol 5998 and Psvane Golds are one of the best possible combos. On Euforia I have no clue.


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## barontan2418

Mh996 said:


> Does anyone here have experience running Tung Sol 7236 or 5998 as powers? I’ve been running EL39s/EL3Ns and powers and drivers, respectively, but it looks like the heating filament on one of the 39s has gone dead. I’d like to replace this with a Feliks-approved power tube. I’d be driving the Tung Sols with the stock PSVane Golds. So, does anyone have experience with either of those Tung Sol models, and how they compare to ELs as powers? Thanks.



I've found TS5998 to be an excellent power tube from my early days using Bottlehead Crack through to Elise and Euforia. Two of my favourate drivers being RCA and Tung Sol 6sn7 VT 231's. on the Felix amps.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 20, 2019)

mordy said:


> Read some posts about the Chinese Shuguang GEKT88 tubes where these percentages appear. However, most of those posts are around 10 years old or more, and I wonder if the KT88 landscape has changed since then?



Hi Mordy, I read in many places that the Chinese tubes have come a long way in recent years, the “premium” ones now showing vastly improved quality/reliability...and sound !.     I was looking for an “open & neutral” quad of KT88s for my PA (which is warmish sounding) so the GEKT88 looked nice, but then I learned about the highly regarded Psvane KT88 T-II and the latest “top” WEKT88 Plus from Shuguang (the tall one with the red base):


 

The few reviews available are unanimous in that, while the Psvanes KT88-TII are great sounding tubes in the right gear (“gold” Psvanes CV181 are the premium drivers in the new Euforia !) the new WEKT88s are probably even _better, _more spacious, organic and (most important) very balanced/neutral sounding...precisely what I was looking for my PA...so I decided to go for a very good offer from a U.S. vendor (expecting delivery on Monday).      Of course, will try the quad in Euforia first...surely will be a most interesting experience.  However, I am a big fan of classic “British sound” and for Euforia I wish I could find some GEC TT21s at *reasonable* prices, but so far only lucky CJ have managed to do that !


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## connieflyer

An opinion from a valued member of another forum member I trust.  His assesment of Gold Lion.   "I find the reissue tubes as good or better that the original GEC KT88 tubes. I recall that the original GEC tubes had excelent bass and midrange, but there was this ever-present slight veil in the upper midrange and treble region.
The reissue tubes sound even-balanced and trow a wide and deep soundstage.
I have learned that soundstaging is the first thing to goes wrong when one tweaks the system in the wrong direction, so, after using these tubes in three different amps (PP and SE), IMHO the Gold Lion reissue KT-88 tubes are a gift to audiophiles."
Have had no problems with the Gold Lion KT88 or KT66's .  Currently running a pair of Gold Lion KT88 powers with a pair of 7581A's and enjoying what I am hearing. Especially used as pre amp out.


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## connieflyer

Hello CJ, how are the TT21's doing?  Am on the hunt for a pair and have a lead from a member on another forum so just looking for your input.  Thanks


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## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Currently running a pair of Gold Lion KT88 powers with a pair of 7581A's and enjoying what I am hearing. Especially used as pre amp out.


Hi @connieflyer. I also am enjoying GL KT88 very much as powers in Elise. Still evaluating 3 driver options:

1. TS 7581A: Very good overall, nice warmth w/o being excessive or "gooey", stage is wide, at times I note a bit less treble extension than I'd like but this in turn make them very non-fatiguing for long listening sessions.
2. GL KT77: Just arrived, I need more time to evaluate. Key initial impression is that midrange is exceptional, vocals really shine, treble about right, perhaps a bit bass-light. Stage is not quite as wide as TS 7581A but a bit more so than the Sylvanias below.
3. Sylvania 6NS7WGT brown (micanol) base: Bought on Ebay, seller thinks they are 1950's vintage NOS, at first listen they are completely noise free and really quite a treat. Treble is the standout, very well-extended but SWEET and non-sibilant, really quite euphonic and delightful. Mids and bass are no slouch, and integrate well into a musically coherent presentation. The bass seemed light at first but now about 10 hours in Elise it is picking up. Stage is definitely not as wide as nor instrument separation as clean as TS 7581A but perhaps that's adding to the coherence and a certain intimacy.

Bottom line, each of these driver pairs brings something positive to the table with GL KT88 powers. I'm enjoying the Sylvanias too much to roll them out right now, but ihe GL KT88's have proved to be a solid foundation as powers for each option. It's wonderful to have such an abundance of good choices with our amps!


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## mordy

Hi LW,
Re the Sylvania 6SN7WGT, if you look carefully it is possible that there is a date code somewhere - perhaps three letters/numbers under the tube designation on top of the tube or on the glass under the designation? Or some numbers on the base?


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## Johnnysound (Dec 22, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @connieflyer. I also am enjoying GL KT88 very much as powers in Elise. Still evaluating 3 driver options:
> 
> 1. TS 7581A: Very good overall, nice warmth w/o being excessive or "gooey", stage is wide, at times I note a bit less treble extension than I'd like but this in turn make them very non-fatiguing for long listening sessions.
> 2. GL KT77: Just arrived, I need more time to evaluate. Key initial impression is that midrange is exceptional, vocals really shine, treble about right, perhaps a bit bass-light. Stage is not quite as wide as TS 7581A but a bit more so than the Sylvanias below.
> ...




I had a “spare” quad of GLKT77s from my power amp, and while they were very nice as drivers in Euforia, the whole quad sounded simply *killer* in this amp, in my humble opinion.  Mine are matured tubes that sounded fast, nimble, deep, and almost _*obscenely*_ clear (lol).   Bass was tight, deep...powerful.  Jazz/lounge/chill/latin/rock all sounded terrific,  with kind of a “music hall” spacious, open presentation.  You may like different tube flavors, but believe me, you want this quad as your PARTY tubes !


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## connieflyer

Decided to order a pair of Genelex Gold Lion KT77's to run as drivers with the KT88's.  The 7581A's as drivers are still delivering great music, but decided to give myself a Christmas present, so decided to try the KT77.   Won't be here till after Christmas now but at least I guess the Euforia is still giving me great sound and quit looking at alternatives for now.  I suppose I will have to stop reading this thread,  I promised myself I was not going to buy any more tubes, but reading Johnnysound and Lorwiv and other review, just could not resist!


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## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Hi LW,
> Re the Sylvania 6SN7WGT, if you look carefully it is possible that there is a date code somewhere - perhaps three letters/numbers under the tube designation on top of the tube or on the glass under the designation? Or some numbers on the base?


Thanks @mordy, I would like more precise date of manufacture info. I am heading out of town for the holidays and will take a careful look at the tubes when I return. I appreciate the tip!


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## OctavianH (Dec 22, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @connieflyer. I also am enjoying GL KT88 very much as powers in Elise. Still evaluating 3 driver options:
> 
> 1. TS 7581A: Very good overall, nice warmth w/o being excessive or "gooey", stage is wide, at times I note a bit less treble extension than I'd like but this in turn make them very non-fatiguing for long listening sessions.
> 2. GL KT77: Just arrived, I need more time to evaluate. Key initial impression is that midrange is exceptional, vocals really shine, treble about right, perhaps a bit bass-light. Stage is not quite as wide as TS 7581A but a bit more so than the Sylvanias below.
> ...



On Elise, for me the KT88 was somehow towards the "dry" sound I do not quite like and the high frequencies were recessed compared to KT66 / 7581A. Have you experienced something like this? If possible, and when you have time, tell me how KT77 are positioning compared to my observations.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Hi guys.

Can only manage a quickie at the moment...could spend a day commenting on all the input just recently lol! 

What's becoming increasingly clear is just how *system-dependent* these KT/7581A tubes really are. Which is not surprising really, given how it's a miracle our amps can have them performing so well...if at all!!! 

In my own system, for example, the quad of Gold Lion KT88s surpasses quite easily any and all the others (haven't tried the KT77s though)...from bass extension/solidity/detail thru seductive (but not 'bloomy') mids to extended, detailed and sweet treble. And with a soundstage rarely matched let alone surpassed, not to mention separation and positioning...all with excellent PRaT, balance and cohesion. Nothing I have tried until now comes close.

However, even these have to give up their throne to the GEC TT21/22. For me at least, they do indeed take the entire experience to a whole new level...note I say _experience_ lol. At this level of performance, detailed analytical assessments are almost futile and pointless...response on a deeper _sub_conscious level is much more indicative of the sound quality/delivery. But I will just say also that _never_ have I _felt_ bass like this from headphones as opposed to speakers. And this is especially since having the 4th tube in place - ie. 3x TT21s and 1x (12V)TT22.

And so @connieflyer , I personally would say that if you have the chance of a pair (or more!!) of these TT21s - at a 'reasonable' price, _grab 'em!!_ You can use my EL39 adapters fine, but you would need to change the anode wire top cap connector for a larger one, so as to fit the larger top connector of the TT21....GOOD LUCK!!...

So, folks, a pic of my Christmas present to _me!!_ :



All I need to do now as a final finish is to slip a larger gold-plated base over the standard black octal base of my adapter, et voila! This is in fact something you might like to do yourselves if in possession of the KT88s, and are as fussy as I am...simply smash out the ceramic pin holder from the bottom and hey presto, it fits nicely up and over the adapter's base...then simply glue it in place...nice 'n neat lol!  Said large bases here :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4pc-8pin-Gold-Ceramic-vacuum-tube-Octal-sockets-base-For-KT88R-audio-amplifier/152641780258?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649     (or ebay.com of course).

ps. _However_...for those who aren't lucky in finding some affordable TT21s (and who could have modified my EL39 adapters), there just _might _be something interesting on the horizon...viz the *GU50* tube. Despite being less than impressed with the JAC Music guy's take on the Russian Gold Lion KT88s, his recommendation of the GU50 might just have more merit lol! On further research, this tube is looking more intriguing by the day...especially since finding a high-end amp (at $11,000!) that uses these tubes...ie. the (new) AudioValves Assistent 100 MKII :



And so now I just wait for the (dirt cheap) tubes to come from Eastern Europe, and see what's what. Trouble is you'd need to use an external 12V heater supply (easy - a cheap 12V laptop charger/power supply) and some 3rd party adapters. But _if_ they can indeed at least come close to the GEC KT88/TT21 - assuming our amps can rise to the challenge once more - then it would still be far cheaper than anything else comparable...so fingers crossed guys ....CHEERS!...CJ...and BFN


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## DecentLevi (Dec 22, 2019)

Those GU50's seem unique. And they don't use a top cap despite the appearance. Here's how they look on another amp.
Just curious which adapter would they take? However I'm personally not planning this route because of the 12v requirement. And per the mention of either using a 12v laptop charger or battery, the latter would be better sonically however neither are viable I would say. My experiences with a former 12v adapter with another tube (FDD20 with an old cell phone charger, IIRC) produced a hideous buzzing sound, and as for for batteries, that would require a lot of replacing or recharging. Perhaps it would require a linear P/S or larger car battery for best sonic results.

Also I want to point out that my adapter issue was not melted off due to heat. It must have been jostled off, because I checked the heat in the area of the base of my EL39 tubes with my cureent unconventional setup and even without a fan it was still only luke warm after several hours. No problem though as I'm getting by nicely with EL38's in place, and on my way to a new rig.


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## Ultrainferno

In the last review before Christmas we take a detailed look at the Feliks Audio Euforia AE 

https://www.headfonia.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


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## hypnos1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Well folks...don't even know yet if the GU50 tube will be another possible one for us, but if so I for one have no qualms whatsoever in using a 12V *laptop* charger/power supply...*NOT* a cell phone charger as per DecentLevi - that's simply asking for trouble lol! Mine worked perfectly with the FDD20 tube, albeit just needing the negative wire connected to mains Earth...then, _total_ silence. And it's now powering my TT22's heater without any issues whatsoever - every bit as efficiently (and quietly) as the amp itself, so *perfectly viable!!* No need at all for expensive linear power supplies.

And so I see no reason at all why this shouldn't work just as perfectly for the GU50, but as usual, one can't be 100% sure until tried of course. Will keep y'all informed when the time comes......CJ


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## gimmeheadroom

I'm still near the beginning of this 500+ page thread but so far the only report of headphones used was Beyer T1s. Anybody running Sennheiser 600/650/800/800S out of these? Where is the volume control when you get to the point you can't stand it? I'm a bit concerned about the rated 250 mW output.


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## mordy

I have the T1 and the HD650 (and the HD250). No problems at all with volume - running past 11-12 o'clock is usually too loud.


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## connieflyer

Hello and welcome,  I have run Senn 650,700 and my main phones the 800. Depending on tubes used, I generally run the volume about 11 o'clock.  Three o'clock would make your ears bleed!  I have never in the last few years with this amp, ever run out of volume.  My HE-560's need more volume, usually around 12 o'clock, but have never run out of headroom on these either.


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## gimmeheadroom

mordy said:


> I have the T1 and the HD650 (and the HD250). No problems at all with volume - running past 11-12 o'clock is usually too loud.



Thank you. Is there a gain switch on the amp?


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## mordy

No, but as CF states, never ran out of volume.


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## gimmeheadroom

mordy said:


> No, but as CF states, never ran out of volume.



Good. I would prefer not to have the gain switch. Thanks for the info on crossfeed. When I looked at the pic of the back panel it took me a while to figure out the switch next to the IEC receptacle was the cross feed switch! Kinda weird choice of positions for such a switch.


----------



## hypnos1

gimmeheadroom said:


> Good. I would prefer not to have the gain switch. Thanks for the info on crossfeed. When I looked at the pic of the back panel it took me a while to figure out the switch next to the IEC receptacle was the cross feed switch! Kinda weird choice of positions for such a switch.



Hi gimmeheadroom...and welcome from me also. Hope you do indeed go for the Euforia (unless you have already lol! ).

Re. headphones, this amp does appear to be able to drive most very well - F-A deliberately configured Euforia so as to handle low-impedance cans as well as high-. Our much lamented, departed (far too early alas ) friend Phil - aka pctazhp - had the HD800S and was very impressed indeed with the combination. I myself loved the Beyer T1 (v1 with replacement DIY pure silver cable), but has since been relegated to the cupboard by the Meze Empyreans...in the words of a guy at Meze "A match made in Heaven"...(along with my Hugo2 as DAC).

As for the xfeed switch at the back of the amp, this would be in keeping with Feliks-Audio's desire to keep the amp looking 'minimalist' and 'neat' by having just the volume knob on the front panel, and nothing else (apart from the headphone out...thankfully _not_ sprouting out from the top of the amp - which was their first choice with the original Elise before we all screamed..._NO WAY!!_ ).


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## gimmeheadroom

Hi @hypnos1 thank you!

I'm not really decided what to do. It's hard to buy audio gear without listening long and hard but that's what I have mostly done over the past years. I'm considering the WA2 and not sure about the Euforia price tag yet. I'm sorry about pctazhp, I didn't know he passed away. Have not read the whole giant thread yet. I have other amps for low impedance cans so this is not essential for the amp I'm considering. But if I go to 2000 euros then I start considering what else is available. And maybe solid state options like the Violectric. I have not come to grips with the possibilities.


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## hypnos1 (Dec 25, 2019)

Now then @connieflyer ...how are things going with your possible lead on some GEC TT21s lol? I really do fervently hope it proves fruitful, and at a 'reasonable' price. Moreover, I hope even more that you're fortunate enough to trace a *quad* of them, or possibly some TT22s to make the quartet! 

Why? Because now that my latest new-looking TT21 plus all adapters and new (UP-OCC) wires have burned in some more, my own foursome has me knowing precisely why folks are prepared to pay hundreds of £/$ for even (good) used examples...and they most certainly are not all suffering from 'more money than sense'!! This is the kind of sound you simply cannot get 'on the cheap' (unless lucky to find some 'relatively' cheap as I did, and unless the upcoming GU50 tube can pull off some kind of _major_ miracle!). I'm now getting a performance that is way beyond the extremely good Gold Lion KT88s that, in my system at least, easily beat all comers lol.

Actually, a leap in performance also came the other day when I substituted an obviously under-performing TT21 with the new-looking tube I paid £175 for (I'm _that_ impressed by them!). The poorly tube in question did in fact finally give up the ghost with a couple of very loud (and nasty!) cracks - Euforia's protection circuitry preventing any major damage to either itself or my headphones...thankfully!! Still, it wasn't wholly unsurprising, given its lower emission readings and broken locating lug...hence only £45. The ebayer refunded straight away, without question.

Anyway, with the 'new(ish)' tube in situ, it was (yet again!) like hearing a different amp...and one in a whole new league. Exceptional bass still there, but now also with delicate, subtle treble notes I never knew were there...and the whole presentation even more 'polished'. Female voices, especially such as Loreena McKennitt's, take on a fresh smoothness and sensual character (at high listening levels especially, some of her high notes can _sometimes_ be a tad 'hard' with other tubes). The same goes for male vocals...and both now occupy their own space even more so than before, as do all other elements of the recording. The soundstage is actually at first quite a bit different to previously, simply because of this better positioning within 3 dimensional space. All these aspects jumped out at me today, reinforcing the new 'experience' I mentioned just recently...a very special one indeed IMHO.

And so cf, and anyone else interested, do keep searching for the 'bargains' that occasionally do pop up...but there's obviously one helluva lot of aficionados who need to be sleeping at the time alas!!  And if necessary (not to mention _lucky)_ don't forget the TT2*2*...a 12V *laptop* charger/power supply will do heater power supply superbly, even if attaching its negative to mains Earth is needed...my own is doing an exceptionally good job lol! We may also need to ask xulingmrs or member Deyan to make another KT88 adapter, but without heater pins and with separate external wires for heater duties instead.

Whatever, excellent performance can obviously be had from any of the KT66/77/88/7581A families, so HAPPY LISTENING to all...along with an early HAPPY CHRISTMAS!! ...CJ


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## hypnos1

gimmeheadroom said:


> Hi @hypnos1 thank you!
> 
> I'm not really decided what to do. It's hard to buy audio gear without listening long and hard but that's what I have mostly done over the past years. I'm considering the WA2 and not sure about the Euforia price tag yet. I'm sorry about pctazhp, I didn't know he passed away. Have not read the whole giant thread yet. I have other amps for low impedance cans so this is not essential for the amp I'm considering. But if I go to 2000 euros then I start considering what else is available. And maybe solid state options like the Violectric. I have not come to grips with the possibilities.



Difficult decisions indeed, gh...and yes, if possible the best option by far is to listen to as many different amps first. Trouble there is it really needs to be within the rest of one's system and in one's own unique environment...not an easy task lol!  But good luck with whichever direction you choose......


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## gimmeheadroom

Thanks. Maybe the La Figaro 339, maybe this Feliks or one of his other ones, maybe Sinus Audio, maybe Woo. European products are easier for me to buy obviously...


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## Johnnysound (Dec 23, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Now then @connieflyer ...how are things going with your possible lead on some GEC TT21s lol? I really do fervently hope it proves fruitful, and at a 'reasonable' price. Moreover, I hope even more that you're fortunate enough to trace a *quad* of them, or possibly some TT22s to make the quartet!
> 
> Why? Because now that my latest new-looking TT21 plus all adapters and new (UP-OCC) wires have burned in some more, my own foursome has me knowing precisely why folks are prepared to pay hundreds of £/$ for even (good) used examples...and they most certainly are not all suffering from 'more money than sense'!! This is the kind of sound you simply cannot get 'on the cheap' (unless lucky to find some 'relatively' cheap as I did, and unless the upcoming GU50 tube can pull off some kind of _major_ miracle!). I'm now getting a performance that is way beyond the extremely good Gold Lion KT88s that, in my system at least, easily beat all comers lol.
> 
> ...



Yep CJ...even before experiencing myself (someday) the GEC KT88s/TT 21s,  I Im just trying to imagine the sweet sound of such classics... a legend among British tubes.  Hard to find reasonably priced, tough... OTOH the GU50 looks interesting, yes, but it is 12.6 v and with very unconventional  pins...needs a lot of adaptor work.     Happy Christmas to all ¡¡


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Yep CJ...even before experiencing myself (someday) the GEC KT88s/TT 21s,  I Im just trying to imagine the sweet sound of such classics...almost a legend among british tubes.  Hard to find reasonably priced, tough... OTOH the GU50 looks interesting, yes, but it is 12.6 v and with very unconventional  pins...needs a lot of adaptor work.     Happy Christmas to all ¡¡



Hi J. Knowing the wonderful collection of tubes you already have, any more must certainly be a little 'daunting' lol?  But 'someday' you really must try and find some 'bargain' TT21s...mine are simply blowing me away right now (wasn't expecting such a difference today brought, as per my previous explanation). I have never before spent £175 on a tube and don't regret one cent/penny of it...(made sweeter by bagging the other 3 tubes for about £190!).

Re. the GU50, the 12.3V from my laptop power supply should be sufficient to do the job, and the tube's pins will in fact be easier for me to convert (without using a socket), compared to my usual attempt to gain access to the wires inside conventional pins. And for an _adapter_, I'm hoping the pin spacing is such as to fit in the silver-plated _roll-jaw_ socket I found to be exceptional for the C3g...better than any other method of pin receptor actually!...wish me luck...and g'night all .


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## connieflyer

Hi CJ, nothing to report on the quad of TT21s so far.  He is trying to decide if he wants to let them go.  Hope he does not see this thread!!!  He has no use for them, but he is wary of letting them go.  Oh well, my KT77's have shipped so that will give me something else to play with by the end of the week.  Your latest discovery, is sounding really good.  I hope I can get those tubes, but I don't want to push him, he may start looking around, and do a search, as I would do.  Good luck and keep up the good work.


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## Johnnysound (Dec 23, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J. Knowing the wonderful collection of tubes you already have, any more must certainly be a little 'daunting' lol?  But 'someday' you really must try and find some 'bargain' TT21s...mine are simply blowing me away right now (wasn't expecting such a difference today brought, as per my previous explanation). I have never before spent £175 on a tube and don't regret one cent/penny of it...(made sweeter by bagging the other 3 tubes for about £190!).
> 
> Re. the GU50, the 12.3V from my laptop power supply should be sufficient to do the job, and the tube's pins will in fact be easier for me to convert (without using a socket), compared to my usual attempt to gain access to the wires inside conventional pins. And for an _adapter_, I'm hoping the pin spacing is such as to fit in the silver-plated _roll-jaw_ socket I found to be exceptional for the C3g...better than any other method of pin receptor actually!...wish me luck...and g'night all .



_Daunting_ ? I would say bordering _madness _at that prices, but who knows ? great sound demands certain _sacrifices_ !! (Lol).  Re. the GU50 adaptor, I think the 7N7/6SN7 octal adaptor is also a “roll jaw” type that might fit (?)

BTW, tried my new Shuguang WEKT88 quad in Euforia and it sounded *excellent, *no doubt about it.  More or less, all that has been said about the GLKT88s applies to this great (albeit _gigantic) _tube that barely fitted on the front slots:  extremely clear, clean, detailed, nicely open and with extraordinarily deep bass, well controlled and not “dry” at all...I liked them a lot.  However, when pushed hard as a preamp, my (lovely) quad of EL12N  powers in my PA began to show strange blue flashes on top, not affecting the sound but indicating some sort of overload...perhaps too powerful output, so I rolled them into the PA  as powers:









The quad of KT77s happened to be a great match with their lively, precise sound and a welcomed touch of warmth in the mids...the WEKT88 as powers are very accurate, linear sounding and nicely sweet, without a trace of harshness.  I am “adjusting” to their sound and allowing a bit of burn-in, of course.  In the meantime, the  EL12Ns (fitted as EL34s) were not _that_ powerful or perhaps linear but man, they sounded like the very best EL34s ever made on earth,  with a deeply sweet, utterly “liquid”, romantic sound that is hard to beat !  I read that this “feeling”  is quite usual when switching from EL34s to KT88s...specially when the former are NOS tubes   !!


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## connieflyer (Dec 23, 2019)

Strange looking little tubes  http://www.tubes.rs/gu50-ussr-ls50-telefunken-fu50-china/#prettyPhoto  I wonder if these will work in Euforia.   Looks like the anode voltage should be about 800V.  Looks like they are still being made in China, possibly by Shugaung  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GU-50. Pin out looks to be fun as well but prices are cheap anyways.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=gu50 Still producing amps with this tube though.   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Class-A-...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


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## connieflyer

Feliks Audio Euforia SE won best amplifier of 2019..............https://www.headfonia.com/hfn-2019-awards/2/


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Strange looking little tubes  http://www.tubes.rs/gu50-ussr-ls50-telefunken-fu50-china/#prettyPhoto  I wonder if these will work in Euforia.   Looks like the anode voltage should be about 800V.  Looks like they are still being made in China, possibly by Shugaung  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GU-50. Pin out looks to be fun as well but prices are cheap anyways.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=gu50 Still producing amps with this tube though.   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Class-A-Single-Ended-Tube-USB-DAC-Audio-Amplifier-FU50-Amp-HIFI/251283412123?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131231084308&meid=d543e42b6ce6472687e7a16088ec2c33&pid=100010&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=pp&sd=273960488126&itm=251283412123&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109



Hi cf. Yeah, these GU50s sure do look different...especially when they're put in the original Russian 'trash can' holder lol!  But otherwise they don't look too bad - mine arrived today much more quickly than anticipated from Ukraine. Unfortunately (and @Johnnysound ) the lovely silver plated C3g and 7N7 to 6SN7 roll-jaw socket is too small for this tube, but there are zillions on ebay from China, with or without gold plated receptors and dirt cheap, so should be easy for inexpensive 3rd party adapters!
And it appears the Chinese version - ie *F*U50 may not be up to the original Russian *G*U50 (which was itself a copy of the TFK *LS*50!). 

Whatever, I now look forward to converting my first 2 tubes after Christmas...luckily I don't need to wait an eternity for sockets from China lol! 

ps. And yes, it does once again look like they're meant to be run much harder than our amps will, but hopefully they'll behave like the KT88 etc. (all of this KT family conveniently using the same adapter).

And now for a teaser.............:


 

Spot the intruders!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

So all the KT family use the same adapter, even the KT77?  I thought they did but was not sure.  Meant to check the pin outs before I ordered the tubes but I "forgot"!


----------



## Johnnysound

*


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## hypnos1

..............................................................................................    *MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!* ...................................................................................

And.....*CHEERS!*...CJ


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## OctavianH

Merry Christmas CJ! Thank you for your time, efforts and everything you made to bring us these KT tubes on our amps. These brought me an incredible experience.






Well, it seems someone drank already the whiskey and I have an idea who. The one sitting in front of the monitor and typing this message.


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## connieflyer

A very Merry Christmas to all the thread folks, it has been a good year, and I predict it will only get better next year.  Happiness, and above all Peace


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Merry Christmas CJ! Thank you for your time, efforts and everything you made to bring us these KT tubes on our amps. These brought me an incredible experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like someone's Christmas is going with a swing!!, so what's better, the JD or the KT's! lol.


----------



## Scutey

A belated happy Christmas from me too, hope you are all having a great time, thanks to everyone who has contributed in any way to the thread, and especially to CJ, and Octavian, for making this the best year yet!, how this coming year can match it I don't know but I'm sure we will all give it a damn good try!, cheers!.


----------



## hypnos1

Thanks guys...it has indeed been a very fruitful - and eventful! - year. And am glad most folks have liked the latest discoveries...(despite perhaps building a rather larger collection of tubes than anticipated lol! ). Can't promise I shan't lead you down yet another rabbit hole, but if I do, I promise your poor wallets won't have to suffer _too_ much....
Enjoy the rest of your Christmas, and we look forward to the New Year...whatever it brings (or not!! )....BFN...CJ

ps. Nearly forgot....HAPPY LISTENING!...


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## connieflyer

It has been a very interesting year of discovery. Finding all these. Combinations of tubes, and how much better everything sounds, now that things are coming together.  Thanks again for all those who have contributed to our success.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> It has been a very interesting year of discovery. Finding all these. Combinations of tubes, and how much better everything sounds, now that things are coming together. * Thanks again for all those who have contributed to our success*.



Well said cf...without all you equally pioneering (and inquisitive! ) trailblazers, I'm sure life wouldn't have been half as interesting or rewarding these past years with our wonderful Feliks-Audio amps...WELL DONE all!

And g'night from me....zzzzzzz....CJ


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## Johnnysound

Merry Christmas !!


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## Scutey

Looking good @Johnnysound , have they evolved anymore in Euforia?. And merry Christmas!.


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## barontan2418

Wishing all thread members a very Happy New Year.
A thought for anyone thinking of getting either Euforia or Elise in the new year. I'm running Sennheiser HD600 at the moment listening to an all time great, Eva Cassiday set-up is Elise plus quad of KT88's and the sound is wonderfull. So in my opinion it's not necessary to stretch straight away to a TOTL headphone although some think the HD600 is such a headphone. Music can be glorious on less expensive phones with this set-up.


----------



## Mh996

barontan2418 said:


> Wishing all thread members a very Happy New Year.
> A thought for anyone thinking of getting either Euforia or Elise in the new year. I'm running Sennheiser HD600 at the moment listening to an all time great, Eva Cassiday set-up is Elise plus quad of KT88's and the sound is wonderfull. So in my opinion it's not necessary to stretch straight away to a TOTL headphone although some think the HD600 is such a headphone. Music can be glorious on less expensive phones with this set-up.


With HD650s in hand and stock powers in position (I had an EL39 fail on me), I must second this! First set-up I’ve had where I felt no need to EQ.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yeah the HD 600 scales extremely well.


----------



## Mh996

To the Tung Sol 5998 owners, how is the amp temperature when running these as powers? Compared to stock, which can get the amp quite warm during long sessions, ELs run very cool.


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## mordy

Mh996 said:


> With HD650s in hand and stock powers in position (I had an EL39 fail on me), I must second this! First set-up I’ve had where I felt no need to EQ.


Drop (formerly Massdrop) still has the HD650 for $200.
 They claim they have sold 84,000 of them.....
This is the headphone I use the most.


----------



## teknorob23

Mh996 said:


> To the Tung Sol 5998 owners, how is the amp temperature when running these as powers? Compared to stock, which can get the amp quite warm during long sessions, ELs run very cool.



run pretty cool on mine, even after long 6-7 hour run in sessions.


----------



## barontan2418

Mh996 said:


> To the Tung Sol 5998 owners, how is the amp temperature when running these as powers? Compared to stock, which can get the amp quite warm during long sessions, ELs run very cool.


It's a while since I last had my 5998 powers in the amp but I'm fairly certain they run a lot cooler than 6080's but not so cool as EL's. Certainly not too hot for these amps and also a very good power tube in both Elise and Euforia.


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## connieflyer (Dec 26, 2019)

6080'S always ran the hottest on my amp.  The 5998's ran it warm but not hot.  Now running the Gold Lion KT77 as drivers and Gold Lion KT88's in power position and am extremely pleased with the results.  I started with the quad of KT 88's and went to 7581A's as drivers, which had a great sound as well.  Now running the KT77's as drivers, so far this is the best I have heard from my amp. Quad of KT66's were also quite good. Using them as Pre amp out really warms up the Anthem amp.  Also uses less volume than the 7581A's.  Not quite as bright. Bass is a little stronger also.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> 6080'S always ran the hottest on my amp.  The 5998's ran it warm but not hot.  Now running the Gold Lion KT77 as drivers and Gold Lion KT88's in power position and am extremely pleased with the results.  I started with the quad of KT 88's and went to 7581A's as drivers, which had a great sound as well.  Now running the KT77's as drivers, so far this is the best I have heard from my amp. Quad of KT66's were also quite good. Using them as Pre amp out really warms up the Anthem amp.  Also uses less volume than the 7581A's.  Not quite as bright. Bass is a little stronger also.



Thanks @connieflyer for reporting on these combinations. How would you describe the differences between a quad of KT88's and KT77's driving KT88 powers for headphone listening?

And of course, a wonderful holiday to all of the thread members!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

connieflyer said:


> 6080'S always ran the hottest on my amp.  The 5998's ran it warm but not hot.  Now running the Gold Lion KT77 as drivers and Gold Lion KT88's in power position and am extremely pleased with the results.  I started with the quad of KT 88's and went to 7581A's as drivers, which had a great sound as well.  Now running the KT77's as drivers, so far this is the best I have heard from my amp. Quad of KT66's were also quite good. Using them as Pre amp out really warms up the Anthem amp.  Also uses less volume than the 7581A's.  Not quite as bright. Bass is a little stronger also.



How much is a set of these tubes?


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## connieflyer

gimmeheadroom which tubes?


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## connieflyer

LoryWiv the difference between the KT77as drivers and KT88 as powers compared to a quad of KT88 is a little more headroom.  Mid's and bass are more articulate. Highs stay very clear and  prominent without being tiring. Slightly more "musical" without losing definition or accuracy. As CJ would say, notes in the music are brought to the front that may have been unnoticed before, you are hearing for the first time.  Now please, remember, this is with my system.  With headphones it is Sennheiser 800 with Draug 3 cable, Schiit Gungnir Multi Bit Dac upgraded IC's, Asus Essence II audio card Coax out with upgraded eproms, JRiver Media Center 25, Sonorworks Reference 4 64 bit VST and Furman Elite 15 DMI Linear Power Conditioner.  For speakers add in Furman Elite 15i seven receptacle, Anthem MRX 720 receiver, SVS Ultra Towers,SVS Ultra Center PSB S10 dipole surround SVSPC12 - Plus subwoofer  Each upgrade to my system has made an impact on the clarity, and quality of the music I hear. And of course the quality of the file to be played. So what I hear is going to be a little different from what you hear on your system. It all adds up to a greater whole. Unless you have a very fat wallet, it takes time and a little research to take it to the level you want to hear. Good luck with your system.  I started out with a quad of KT66 and thought those were close to what I hear now also.  But this combo, for me, is just better. Will be selling of the KT66's and the quad of 7581A,s that have over 200 ours of burnin, these also were quite good. Lots to chose from, but until you hear it in your own system, all you do is get an idea of what it sounds like compared to what the reviewer compared them too.


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## gimmeheadroom

connieflyer said:


> gimmeheadroom which tubes?



I was asking about the KTs in the picture in your post immediately above https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...heeps-clothing.831743/page-508#post-153822557


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## connieflyer

I paid a little less than a hundred for the pair of KT77 and a little over that for the KT 88's.  I bought them from Upscale Audio in the U.S. They burn in their power tubes for 70 hours and do a through check to make sure tubes are matched and in great shape.


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## gimmeheadroom

Thanks, it is really great to read tube rolling threads as an efficient way to save money 

I can't order from outside the EU but aren't the Gold Lions made in Europe maybe even Czech Republic? I should be able to find a source...


----------



## barontan2418

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, it is really great to read tube rolling threads as an efficient way to save money
> 
> I can't order from outside the EU but aren't the Gold Lions made in Europe maybe even Czech Republic? I should be able to find a source...



They are usually available from Hot Rox UK at approx £47 per tube thats -KT66/88 they will stock KT77's I'm sure.


----------



## Scutey

barontan2418 said:


> They are usually available from Hot Rox UK at approx £47 per tube thats -KT66/88 they will stock KT77's I'm sure.


They do stock the GL KT77as well at £39 per tube.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Feliks Audio Euforia SE won best amplifier of 2019..............https://www.headfonia.com/hfn-2019-awards/2/


Congrats to FA. I have been very happy with the quality and versatility of my Elise!


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 27, 2019)

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @connieflyer. I also am enjoying GL KT88 very much as powers in Elise. Still evaluating 3 driver options:
> 
> 1. TS 7581A: Very good overall, nice warmth w/o being excessive or "gooey", stage is wide, at times I note a bit less treble extension than I'd like but this in turn make them very non-fatiguing for long listening sessions.
> 2. GL KT77: Just arrived, I need more time to evaluate. Key initial impression is that midrange is exceptional, vocals really shine, treble about right, perhaps a bit bass-light. Stage is not quite as wide as TS 7581A but a bit more so than the Sylvanias below.
> ...



Brief Update:
Have spent more time with the GL KT77 driving GL KT88, which I note above @connieflyer is favoring with Euforia. I think he is on to something great, as the mids remain exceptional but stage, instrument separation, air and extension at both bottom and top end are improving (tube / brain burrn-in or both?). Overall musicality exceeds that of the Sylvania 6SN7WGT drivers, probably led by those euphonic mids, and while the top end sparkle is still a bit behind the Sylvie's high's are clean and present, bass hits hard with percussive impact when called for but never intrusive nor bleeding into mids.

I'm still interested in what a quad of KT88's (@barontan2418 describes great results using this quad with Elise) or a quad of KT77's might bring, but certainly Elise is performing like a champ with the GL KT77 --> KT88 combination and I think i'll stick with it a while and enjoy the music!


----------



## hypnos1

..........................................................................*GU50 tube, and...????!!!*..............................................................

Hi guys. Had thought my 'Midnight Missives' were at an end...need my sleep these days lol! 

However, my GU50s arriving early from Ukraine have been screaming at me, so spent today doing the necessary _(very _fiddly!!) and one as power has been running for about 4 hours, with a half hour cooling period.

Well, I couldn't get to bed before letting you know that not only have our amps pulled off yet another _major_ miracle, but already I'm not believing my ears...no pops/hum/crackle/hiss/pings/thuds. In fact no distortion whatsoever, even with volume at ear-shattering levels....and once again, deathly black silence (where it should be lol!).

Already it's doing a wonderful job as power to a GEC TT21 driver...and given this is _extremely_ early days for a NOS Russian _military_ tube, it bodes very well indeed. Next will be 2 as powers, which will be a much tougher test of course, without the TT21 power as support! And already I'm eager for the other 2 to arrive and see what they can do as drivers.

And at *£7* the _*pair*_ (but £9 shipping), this sort of early performance is simply bordering on the criminal lol!! ...count me totally gobsmacked...for the moment, at least......

Anyway, time for zzzzzzz, so BFN guys...and hold off spending big bucks on tubes for now - if you're interested in going this route that is! ...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Dec 29, 2019)

Hi Colin, sounds like the GU50 may be a sleeping beauty, and at least they don't need an external power supply. Just curious if you have any idea on a source for adapters with their unusual pin design? The task certainly doesn't seem like too much for @Deyan I would think anyway.

Also a bit of an off the wall question. Have you recently tried going back to stock tubes? I get the impression that every combo you've been trying for a good while has been sounding fantastic, if even each subsequently better than the last. It makes me wonder if perhaps something with your custom upgrades / component burn-in / chain, etc. has taken your rig itself to a whole new level, and if so maybe your amp will even allow stock tubes to shine in their best light as well.


----------



## teknorob23

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, it is really great to read tube rolling threads as an efficient way to save money
> 
> I can't order from outside the EU but aren't the Gold Lions made in Europe maybe even Czech Republic? I should be able to find a source...



hotrox in uk £79 per pair of kt77


----------



## connieflyer (Dec 29, 2019)

Dl I went back to stock tubes three weeks ago, did not mention it as I felt it to be a non event. It sounded okay, but the difference between them and totl tubes was very apparent and not worth putting back in again


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> 6080'S always ran the hottest on my amp.  The 5998's ran it warm but not hot.  Now running the Gold Lion KT77 as drivers and Gold Lion KT88's in power position and am extremely pleased with the results.  I started with the quad of KT 88's and went to 7581A's as drivers, which had a great sound as well.  Now running the KT77's as drivers, so far this is the best I have heard from my amp. Quad of KT66's were also quite good. Using them as Pre amp out really warms up the Anthem amp.  Also uses less volume than the 7581A's.  Not quite as bright. Bass is a little stronger also.



Hi cf. So, another thumbs up for the KT77...just what can our amps _not_ do lol?!!  The choice now is almost mind boggling...and getting harder by the day (especially now the GU50 is also looking yet another giant killer ...more in a minute...).


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 28, 2019)

DecentLevi said:


> Hi Colin, sounds like the GU50 may be a sleeping beauty, and at least they don't need an external power supply. Just curious if you have any idea on a source for adapters with their unusual pin design? The task certainly doesn't seem like too much for @Deyan I would think anyway.
> 
> Also a bit of an off the wall question. Have you recently tried going back to stock tubes? I get the impression that every combo you've been trying for a good while has been sounding fantastic, if even each subsequently better than the last. It makes me wonder if perhaps something with your custom upgrades / component burn-in / chain, etc. has taken your rig itself to a whole new level, and if so maybe your amp will even allow stock tubes to shine in their best light as well.



Well DL, don't know about the GU50 being a sleeping _beauty..._this must be one of the least attractive/impressive looking tubes out there lol!!  But what it may lack in _looks_ it sure makes up for in _sound!_  It's still much too early to get a proper handle on it yet, and won't show its true colours until the second one is in as power and had much more burn in of course...Russian military tubes are notorious for needing looong burn in, and that's even when running smaller tubes and much hotter (this GU50 has the case running even _cooler_ than the KTs lol!). However, my single one as power is already showing immense promise .

But as previously mentioned, this tube _does_ need an external power supply for the heater - viz being 12.6V, and as also mentioned recently my 12V *laptop* charger/power supply is doing the job absolutely perfectly...just as good as the amp itself for stock, and this time I don't even need to connect its negative lead to mains Earth...no hum/distortion whatsoever (with my UK 3-pin mains supply). And with plenty of Chinese sockets available, I'm sure Mrsx will have no problem at all making an adapter for us...nor Deyan, I should imagine. If anyone is interested trying this tube, I shall give her the required pin configuration, with instructions for external heater wires for easy connection...

However, as is always the case with new tubes I suggest folks wait until I complete full and proper trials so as to make sure this tube shows no incompatibility problems with extended use. So far, my Euforia is showing no signs of objection whatsoever...amazingly so in fact lol!! 

Re. going back to stock tubes...at each system upgrade that coincides with new tubes, I had always referred back to stock to validate the new tube's findings. But eventually I got fed up with 'backtracking' in performance quality and so lately don't even bother any more. At each stage...and since...stock has always not matched the new tubes' performance..._in my system_...although the various upgrades did actually improve stock performance (to quite a degree after the mains conditioning/filtering; cables using UP-OCC silver and copper wire, and DAC change...not to mention the Naim server/player!!).

BFN...CJ


----------



## Johnnysound (Dec 28, 2019)

hypnos1 said:


> Well DL, don't know about the GU50 being a sleeping _beauty..._this must be one of the least attractive/impressive looking tubes out there lol!!  But what it may lack in _looks_ it sure makes up for in _sound!_  It's still much too early to get a proper handle on it yet, and won't show its true colours until the second one is in as power and had much more burn in of course...Russian military tubes are notorious for needing looong burn in, and that's even when running smaller tubes and much hotter (this GU50 has the case running even _cooler_ than the KTs lol!). However, my single one as power is already showing immense promise .
> 
> But as previously mentioned, this tube _does_ need an external power supply for the heater - viz being 12.6V, and as also mentioned recently my 12V *laptop* charger/power supply is doing the job absolutely perfectly...just as good as the amp itself for stock, and this time I don't even need to connect its negative lead to mains Earth...no hum/distortion whatsoever (with my UK 3-pin mains supply). And with plenty of Chinese sockets available, I'm sure Mrsx will have no problem at all making an adapter for us...nor Deyan, I should imagine. If anyone is interested trying this tube, I shall give her the required pin configuration, with instructions for external heater wires for easy connection...
> 
> ...








Just look at these little chinese beauties (8 watt) at just $ 190 plus shipping...  The *whole* amp costs less than a single (used) GEC tube !!
And a most interesting comment from the manufacturer:

“_FU50/GU50 is a pentode tube with 40W plate dissipation, It is designed for communication application but sound great if connected as triode,It also called as "little 300B" in China. The amplifier can deliver up to 8 Watts stereo output on 8 Ohms load.The sound is very smooth and musical, Great control and very flexible/punch bass, Sparkle treble even better than some more expensive tubes”_


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## Johnnysound (Dec 29, 2019)

I am mightily impressed (to say the least) with the sound of the Shuguang WEKT88 Plus quad on my power amp.  After only about 20 hours or so of burn-in I ceased trying to find flaws, and simply enjoyed the sound...a lot.  To begin with, the bass  -while very deep- is also the *tightest, fastest* and most dynamic,  entertaining bass I have ever heard from a power tube, new or old stock...and I have tried many.   Mids & highs are ultra extended, very high def (but not clinical) and this is not a “warm” tube:  the music sounds wide open, spacious, clear, _exquisitely_ detailed, almost _frighteningly_ real.

Tried it briefly in Euforia, and have absolutely no doubts that this quad will probably break grounds here as a preamp also, but once installed into my power amp, there is *no way* I will take them out from there.  So good that I got hooked, listening to all my favorites for hours...

In fact, had to look for configurations in Euforia for the best synergy...with some unexpected results.  With such an extended  amp you are not looking in the preamp for bass or the like, but linearity, accuracy...and best results were obtained with (for example) 4xEL11, or 4xKT77.  Curiously, the “symmetrical” quads worked the best...harmony between tubes ?

And of course, I wondered how a chinese tube could be so damm good.  “WE” stands for “Western Electric”, but this is NOT a reproduction because WE never made a KT88/6550 !  This one  is some sort of _interpretation_ on how a “classic” WE KT88 might have been _if ever produced_...more in the line of the premium  Shuguang 300B, 411 or 2A3 “big bottles” than “standard” KT88s.  As so, this is a new design, and it sounds, well, _modern,  _fast, accurate while showing a “classic” flair... A great tube !!


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 29, 2019)

Johnnysound said:


> Just look at these little chinese beauties (8 watt) at just $ 190 plus shipping...  The *whole* amp costs less than a single (used) GEC tube !!
> And a most interesting comment from the manufacturer:
> 
> “_FU50/GU50 is a pentode tube with 40W plate dissipation, It is designed for communication application but sound great if connected as triode,It also called as "little 300B" in China. The amplifier can deliver up to 8 Watts stereo output on 8 Ohms load.The sound is very smooth and musical, Great control and very flexible/punch bass, Sparkle treble even better than some more expensive tubes”_



Hi J...yeah, how on earth do they do it for such peanuts lol?! Well, reliability is often the problem of course...plenty of tales of incorrect/fake components; mistakes in circuitry; low quality transformers etc. etc. But some of the makers do seem to be getting better reputations these days...higher up the cost scale of course!! 

Anyway, they certainly do seem to like their own *F*U50, and the Russian NOS *G*U50 is supposed to be much better. Well, all I can say is that with another 10 hrs overnight burning (and still no untoward issues!), it just _might_ be possible the guy at JAC Music was in fact right in putting this tube right up there with the KT88...but "_better"_?...time will tell. What I can say however is that at *£7 the pair*(*!!*), this tube represents unparalleled value if prepared to handle the 12.6V heater supply (dead easy! ). And if it does indeed keep improving further still could possibly beat all comers lol .

And an interim pic of one sleeping _not-so-beauty wink..._can't wait to hear with a second in the power seat...

Or, rather, _would_ send..if the darned thing would upload lol!!!...(head-fi problem? Or Firefox? Or Kaspersky? Or...??)...

ps. But what excites me most is AudioValves choosing the GU50 for their new $11,000 Assistent amp...without even the _option_ for a KT88 or similar lol!


----------



## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> I am mightily impressed (to say the least) with the sound of the Shuguang WEKT88 Plus quad on my power amp.  After only about 20 hours or so of burn-in I ceased trying to find flaws, and simply enjoyed the sound...a lot.  To begin with, the bass  -while very deep- is also the *tightest, tautest, fastest* and most dynamic,  entertaining bass I have ever heard from a power tube, new or old stock...and I have tried many.   Mids & highs are ultra extended, very high def (but not clinical) and this is not a “warm” tube:  the music sounds wide open, spacious, clear, _exquisitely_ detailed, almost _frighteningly_ real.
> 
> Tried it briefly in Euforia, and have absolutely no doubts that this quad will probably break grounds here as a preamp also, but once installed into my power amp, there is *no way* I will take them out from there.  So good that I got hooked, listening to all my favorites for hours, under a new and most enjoyable sonic “light”...
> 
> ...



Sounds good J. Would love to pit them against my GEC TT21s...and now the GU50, but at about £230 the pair by the time the robbers have finished here I'm afraid I'll have to pass on that one . Glad that you're loving them though...WELL DONE!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Under $200 is pretty cheap, but what if you want a little more power, say, 100 watts per channel?  You might want to try the $48000.00 KR Audio Kronzilla with their handmade triode tubes, the most powerful triode tubes out there!!!! Nice pair of mono blocks.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Let me see if I have the money in my pocket 

Made in Czech Republic, btw!


----------



## Scutey

Crackling value, think I'll have two!.


----------



## connieflyer

If the entrance price is not to bad just remember, if you need to replace a tube they are almost $1500.00 each!


----------



## connieflyer

All of a sudden, the price I paid for my KT's does not seem expensive at all!


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## LoryWiv (Dec 30, 2019)

barontan2418 said:


> Wishing all thread members a very Happy New Year.
> A thought for anyone thinking of getting either Euforia or Elise in the new year. I'm running Sennheiser HD600 at the moment listening to an all time great, Eva Cassiday set-up is Elise plus quad of KT88's and the sound is wonderfull. So in my opinion it's not necessary to stretch straight away to a TOTL headphone although some think the HD600 is such a headphone. Music can be glorious on less expensive phones with this set-up.


As a fellow Elise owner, @barontan2418 can you comment further on the Genalex GL KT88 quad in Elise? I'm running thses as powers driven by GL KT77 and mids are the standout, definitely more engaging than when I had GL KT66 as drivers to KT88. However, the KT66 drivers offered better stage and instrument separation / definition and was a less "congested" with complex music. Extension was excellent for highs, perhaps a bit less so for bass. Over time I did find the overall KT66-->KT88 signature a bit too clinical / solid state sounding and moved on to the GL KT77 drivers.

What are your impressions of the GL KT88 quad in Elise for these attributes (stage, instrument separation, freq. extension and overall musicality)?

I'm trying to decide if i want to invest in another pair of KT88's to try as a  quad in Elise, and would really appreciate your additional impressions. Thanks, and Happy New Year!


----------



## OctavianH

I've left Elise at home for a few days and went to Athens to celebrate New Years Eve, but when I entered back here I've seen that you guys already found new toys to try.
It is incredible how many energy and possibilities are you finding in less than a week. You already made me curious about KT77. Well, and since a picture makes more than 1000 words and I have no Elise or tubes to show you, I'll leave here other stuff. A bit of history and the beer pub, the highlights in a man's life.


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## mordy (Dec 30, 2019)

Hi H1,
How is it going with your Russian salt shakers?




The sockets look like they were made for a tank:


----------



## WithGumption

Hey all,

Long story short, I’m going to be selling my Euforia. I’ve listed it in a couple places online and wanted to post it in B&S here. While I figure all that out, please PM me in the meantime if you are interested.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 1, 2020)

mordy said:


> Hi H1,
> How is it going with your Russian salt shakers?
> 
> 
> ...



Hi m...good timing - ready to update folks on this weird looking tube lol! 

As ever, it's a bit of a rollercoaster ride as these GU50s burn in - more so than usual, given it's a NOS Russian military of course! My second as power, driven by the GEC TT21s seemed to want longer to wake up...such that I (foolishly!) began to have doubts about this tube. However, with about 15 hrs play time, it wasn't until straight after the third cooling off period that my faith was restored (confirming once again my belief that such periods are almost as important as the actual _play_ time in the whole burn-in process).

It's still too early for proper assessment, but already they're almost at KT tube level. Bass doesn't yet quite go as (sub) deep but is well controlled and solid. Mid/upper bass and lower mids are a touch too dominant at present for my tastes but this will surely alter with further burn-in...these really are very early days for such a NOS tube!! Treble has come on leaps and bounds even in this short time.

If things continue to progress at this rate, I'm fairly sure that this £3 to £4 tube will indeed at least match the KTs and anything that went before...as powers at least. In a few days' time I hope to have another pair for driver duties...or I'll swap my current 2 with the TT21 drivers (which are no doubt helping the GU50s perform so well! ).

Anyway, will update in 2 to 3 days (if not sooner lol!). But for now I'm linking a very interesting youtube video of a guy explaining how tubes work, using the GU50 as guinea pig...and taking it to pieces!! It looks to me like *all* the grids (_and_ posts!!) might well be gold plated...and if so, I've never come across a tube with more than just the signal grid plated thus  : 

Also a pic of the Russians minus their comical hats, which simply unscrew...


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys...don't need days of further burn-in to be wowed by these *GU50s* after all...as powers at least.

With just another 8 hours on them, including 2x half hour cooling periods, I had the shock of my life this afternoon when listening to one of my main test CD albums - Mike Oldfield's 'Elements'...'The best of...'(sounding as good as much hi-res material lol!). The leap in performance was most unexpected this early in proceedings (these Russians probably taunting me for bemoaning their slow development/long burn-in requirements!! ).

Anyway, to cut things short, these two as powers are actually *outperforming all my previous best already*, including the Gold Lion reissue KT88s...all except my GEC TT21s, that is... 

However, although the GU50 (as yet) doesn't quite have me feeling _sub_ bass to the same degree as the TTs, in another area it is in fact _'better'!!..._ie. the now better controlled/less dominant than earlier area of mid/upper bass and lower mids. There is now more detail coming through in this part of the FR, which I'm having to get used to in fact. I'm sure this would be a godsend for lovers of heavy rock/metal, and really fill one's head to bursting...if it can take it lol!! For me personally, 'soft' rock benefits sufficiently for my own tastes/ears/brain cells ...now I just need to make sure this area doesn't dominate too much in the Classical arena (but am fairly sure already that it won't).

And even more remarkable of course is the crazy cheap price of these tubes, along with an obviously _very_ plentiful supply (which the guy in the video I posted also found surprising...the continued late production probably being a ploy to keep folks in work!!).

Anyway, with days of continuous playing time, including 11+ hrs overnight sessions, my amp continues to show no signs of objection to these tubes whatsoever, still with deathly black background and music playing, or not...and so would appear once again to be totally safe in our amps. My sort of 12V power supply for the heaters can be found on ebay or Amazon for about $16 or even less, as shown here : 

 

My own is such a PS - ostensibly for strip LED lights etc., but clearly the same as used for laptop charger replacements (and far cheaper than those that have a particular manufacturer's name stuck on it lol! ). I myself have had no problem whatsoever with mine - it works flawlessly (and silently/no interference). And _if_ it should have marginally shorter life than a 'named' one, at this sort of price it's a no-brainer IMHO...just make sure it has all the safety certificates it can muster, and check reviews.

And if folks are interested in giving these tubes a try, I'm happy to ask Mrsx to do the honours once more with adapters, or you can ask member Deyan if he's interested in tackling this one, and at what price...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys...don't need days of further burn-in to be wowed by these *GU50s* after all...as powers at least.
> 
> With just another 8 hours on them, including 2x half hour cooling periods, I had the shock of my life this afternoon when listening to one of my main test CD albums - Mike Oldfield's 'Elements'...'The best of...'(sounding as good as much hi-res material lol!). The leap in performance was most unexpected this early in proceedings (these Russians probably taunting me for bemoaning their slow development/long burn-in requirements!! ).
> 
> ...


Do you think that the GU50 is better as a driver than a power tube?
That top aluminum ring that you unscrewed, do you think that it has a function?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Do you think that the GU50 is better as a driver than a power tube?
> That top aluminum ring that you unscrewed, do you think that it has a function?



Hi m. Haven't  tried the GU50 as driver yet, and am eager to see just what it can do. Hope to have another pair from Romania soon, or might try my current pair once they have more hours on them (still evaluating them properly as powers). All I can say is that if they can match my TT21s in that slot also, I think I might just go totally insane lol! .

The top _*black*_ plastic cap that unscrews is apparently just so it's easier to remove from the 'trash can' holder when used...no other function...CJ


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## LoryWiv (Jan 2, 2020)

Well now, this just get's more interesting. Decided to give my newly acquired NOS Sylvania 6SN7WGT drivers another try, this time with Genalex GL KT77's as powers. The previous soundstage constriction I felt was a negative aspect of the Sylvanias powering KT88 has resolved, and the stage and instrument placement has improved substantially The euphonic mids of the KT77's are a small bit less evident in the power slot, but still quite nice. Overall i'd describe this combination as a bit on the analytic side but superb for detail retrieval, air and stage. Overall tone is bright but but bass is taut, tuneful and of good quantity when the source material features it.

I'm not sure if I'll stay with this combo. but it does demonstrate to me that synergy is key, and not to "write off" a tube until trying it in a variety of pairings and permutations. Also, the older Sylvanias and newer Genalex's make a handsome couple (quadruple?) indeed:


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## mordy

HI LW,
Synergy is the key. That’s why I am reluctant to sell off tubes that don’t see much use. It already happened several times that somebody discovered a great sounding combination using such tubes.
That tube that was just sitting in the drawer collecting dust suddenly became a star....


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## hypnos1

Hi @LoryWiv . 

Yes indeed...depending on one's own system of course, we now have a multitude of possible tube combinations to 'fine tune' to our heart's content lol!  And as mordy says, there could well be a drawerful of lonely tubes just waiting to be resurrected!! ...(things can - and will! - change with each upgrade to the rest of one's system, especially headphones). And while on the subject of cans, this KT family certainly does bring out the best in the Senn HD 650, and presumably the 600 also....most definitely also for the HD800 it would appear. My own 650s have never sounded so good, but there's no denying Euforia + the latest tubes (assuming good source/DAC/cables/mains conditioning) goes to new heights with top headphones. A/Bing with my Empyreans confirms I could never go back to anything less...so, guys, get saving/hinting for birthday or Christmas presents/selling off the mother-in-law - whatever it takes to do the necessary lol! ...you _know_ you deserve it!! 

Back to your latest combo, it sure does look good...and this is obviously one of the reasons the GU50 has never been adopted in a big way by the major amp manufacturers (as confirmed by several DIY sources on the 'net, despite their glowing reports of its capabilities! ). This really is not a 'looker' of a tube alas, along with an unconventional base/pins and need for care in fitting in a socket, especially if not using a tailor made holder - something not too difficult to manage.

Also, it appears this tube was never really aimed at the civilian market due to the high cost of manufacture (expensive nickel alloy plates with special coating etc.), hence reserved for military use. However, _sonically_ this tube is right up there with the best of them at $£hundreds!! And all I can say is that my pair as powers will not be moving from there, replacing 2x GEC TT21s that will remain as spare drivers. And who knows, 4x GU50s just _might _mean _four_ spare TT21s...but that's a while off yet lol!!...CJ


----------



## Lucky87

Hey guy’s just upgraded to Gold Lion KT88’s for the QUAD SANDWICH very impressed specially with my Utopia & Empyrean’s. Bought them from Upscale Audio where I usually buy my stuff from with the 72 hour burn in. Looking forward to the 200 hour mark.  The only thing I noticed is that I need more volume about +2 from the stock, I thought I read somewhere you get more power with less volume?  Currently running Schiit Yggrasil A2 Unison USB > Euforia > Utopia/Empyreans =    Thank you to all have been doing all of the tube rolling


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## LoryWiv (Jan 3, 2020)

Lucky87 said:


> Hey guy’s just upgraded to Gold Lion KT88’s for the QUAD SANDWICH very impressed specially with my Utopia & Empyrean’s. Bought them from Upscale Audio where I usually buy my stuff from with the 72 hour burn in. Looking forward to the 200 hour mark.  The only thing I noticed is that I need more volume about +2 from the stock, I thought I read somewhere you get more power with less volume?  Currently running Schiit Yggrasil A2 Unison USB > Euforia > Utopia/Empyreans =    Thank you to all have been doing all of the tube rolling



Glad you're enjoying them (from one Bay Area resident to another!) Others have also commented that higher volume settings are required with GL KT88, and that's definitely been my experience as well, currently running them as powers driven by Sylvania 6SN7WGT in Elise.


----------



## hypnos1

Lucky87 said:


> Hey guy’s just upgraded to Gold Lion KT88’s for the QUAD SANDWICH very impressed specially with my Utopia & Empyrean’s. Bought them from Upscale Audio where I usually buy my stuff from with the 72 hour burn in. Looking forward to the 200 hour mark.  The only thing I noticed is that I need more volume about +2 from the stock, I thought I read somewhere you get more power with less volume?  Currently running Schiit Yggrasil A2 Unison USB > Euforia > Utopia/Empyreans =    Thank you to all have been doing all of the tube rolling



Hi L87.

Glad you're liking the GL KT88 quad...my own Empyreans simply _love  _them. But they do need the volume knob up a bit more even than the HD650s (which isn't surprising given they're only 32 Ohms lol! ). And they simply adore the GEC TT21s!! ...but you need to be real lucky to find some at a 'reasonable' price (unless you're prepared to try the GU50, which is getting closer to them by the day!! ).

One thing I am finding with all these tubes is that they shine best at fairly high listening levels...which again isn't surprising really, given they're strictly meant to be run far harder than in our amps. But this isn't any problem (for me anyway) as they maintain a wonderful balance and control, without going harsh.

It still amazes me actually how F-A's amps can handle them so wonderfully, especially when I look at DIY articles describing the various circuit complexities often encountered...and way beyond me lol!! ...Thanks, Feliks-Audio...


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## connieflyer (Jan 3, 2020)

One thing I noticed as well, that going to the quad of KT88's I needed to raise volume. Now running the KT77 as drivers to the KT88 powers, I don't need to raise the volume as much.  This has happened in the last day or so.  I think it may have been further burn in. Can not account for it in any other portion of the system. All the tubes had the 72 hour burn in from Upscale Audio, and I would estimate this is another fifty hours or so. Now use mainly as pre amp, taking advantage of winter, with the house closed up, and cannot bother neighbors!  This combo has warmed up the Anthem receiver, just enough, and it is a glorious sound coming out of the system now.  I am going to miss this if I move into an apartment.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> One thing I noticed as well, that going to the quad of KT88's I needed to raise volume. Now running the KT77 as drivers to the KT88 powers, I don't need to raise the volume as much.  This has happened in the last day or so.  I think it may have been further burn in. Can not account for it in any other portion of the system. All the tubes had the 72 hour burn in from Upscale Audio, and I would estimate this is another fifty hours or so. Now use mainly as pre amp, taking advantage of winter, with the house closed up, and cannot bother neighbors!  This combo has warmed up the Anthem receiver, just enough, and it is a glorious sound coming out of the system now.  I am going to miss this if I move into an apartment.


I am running this exact combination in Elise using ZMF Auteur headphones, volume rarely past 11 o'clock.


----------



## OctavianH

I think the volume level depends also on the DAC output. For example my Qutest hast variable 1-2-3V output and I usually keep it at 3V. 
Many other DACs have lower output voltage therefore I expect the volume level is higher for the same sonic volume.


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## connieflyer

Dac output is constant, using Gungnir multibit


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## LoryWiv (Jan 3, 2020)

@connieflyer I appreciate your prior comparison of the KT88 quad versus KT77 driving KT88 powers, in your Euforia amp and chain, especially as preamp to your speaker setup. In Elise for headphone output I think the KT77 --> KT88 is excellent as well, Strength is the mids and just the right touch of warmth, overall a very pleasant listen. I do wish the bass hit a tad harder and similarly treble sounds slightly rolled off.

Can anyone who runs a KT88 quad in Euforia or Elise to high end headphones comment as to whether the quad delivers euphonic mids and warmth whilst featuring good bass impact and treble extension?

I am interested in opinions before dropping another $100 + USD into Genealex / new Sensor's coffers.


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> @connieflyer I appreciate your prior comparison of the KT88 quad versus KT77 driving KT88 powers, in your Euforia amp and chain, especially as preamp to your speaker setup. In Elise for headphone output I think the KT77 --> KT88 is excellent as well, Strength is the mids and just the right touch of warmth, overall a very pleasant listen. I do wish the bass hit a tad harder and similarly treble sounds slightly rolled off.
> 
> Can anyone who runs a KT88 quad in Euforia or Elise to high end headphones comment as to whether the quad delivers euphonic mids and warmth whilst featuring good bass impact and treble extension?
> 
> I am interested in opinions before dropping another $100 + USD into Genealex / new Sensor's coffers.



Well LW...I myself found the KT88 quad delivered all that I could ask for in the areas you mention (with my Empyreans), and only surpassed by the GEC TT21s (but which are generally very expensive and you would need a special adapter not as yet available). _*However*_, if you're prepared to go the GU50 route, you may well get all you wish for, and at a fraction of the price...but again would need a special adapter, also not yet available, and the (cheap) 12V heater supply I've covered previously...decisions, decisions.

Anyway folks, as an update to my GU50 (power) trials... with well over 100 hrs on one and 70 on the other (including numerous important cooling periods), it actually pains me somewhat to admit that the JAC Music guy's statement re. the *GU50* being 'better' than the (original, even!) KT88... *IS CORRECT!*...viz although _sub_bass isn't felt quite the same way as with the TT21s as powers, _overall_ bass does in fact hit harder...with more solidity and greater detail/texture/tonality across the entire bass spectrum, and up into the mids. Treble is still deliciously sweet and detailed, and soundstage - if anything - is also even more striking than the 21's...enhanced especially by the expert handling of intentional reverberation, expanding space even further...striking indeed (particularly in the Empyreans). All these aspects were very noticeable today, bringing even more richness and subtlety to the voices of Mim Grey's 'Reachin' down the years'; Sarah K's 'When I didn't care' thru the amazing soundstage in Michael Jackson's  'Billie Jean (Single version)' to the pounding bass and screaming electric guitar of Brent Cobb's 'Black Crow'.

And all this well before full burn-in of one tube at least  . Now I just need my second pair of GU50s to arrive from Romania so I can see if the magic continues as a quad ...(hey @OctavianH ...you haven't snaffled them have you lol? The pair from Ukraine arrived in just a week...but then, the Romanians had to travel over the Christmas period, so fair dos!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 3, 2020)

Hello CJ, well it certainly sounds like you're enjoying the GU 50 tube. I was just wondering if you run a quad are you going to need a second 12 volt adapter or is there enough power coming from the single adapter to power all four tubes?  Just a question I'm debating in case I go down that road! Like you say as good as these tubes sound and for the price of them it's almost a shame not to try them. Of course the adapters make it less attractive and the fact that you have to have the external 12 volt power supply with them. But on the other hand if you're getting Superior performance is that not what we're in quest of? Oh what a tangled web you weave CJ. You really must stop, at the rate that you're going with all these new tubes I won't have room the move to an apartment! Glad they're working out for you in the power position looking forward into your results as a quad. And I hate to admit it but the more I look at those ugly, weird, out-of-this-world not looking like a tube tube, they're starting to actually appeal to me. I can't remember if I had a couple of extra glasses of wine when I made that decision or not possibly! Keep us informed


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, well it certainly sounds like you're enjoying the GU 50 tube. I was just wondering if you run a quad are you going to need a second 12 volt adapter or is there enough power coming from the single adapter to power all four tubes?  Just a question I'm debating in case I go down that road! Like you say as good as these tubes sound and for the price of them it's almost a shame not to try them. Of course the adapters make it less attractive and the fact that you have to have the external 12 volt power supply with them. But on the other hand if you're getting Superior performance is that not what we're in quest of? Oh what a tangled web you weave CJ. You really must stop, at the rate that you're going with all these new tubes I won't have room the move to an apartment! Glad they're working out for you in the power position looking forward into your results as a quad. And I hate to admit it but the more I look at those ugly, weird, out-of-this-world not looking like a tube tube, they're starting to actually appeal to me. I can't remember if I had a couple of extra glasses of wine when I made that decision or not possibly! Keep us informed



Hi cf...yo, but at the moment I'm more _dumbfounded_ by these GU50s than actually being able to _enjoy_ them lol!! ...(you know the trials and tribulations of assessing new tubes!! ). Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to have some more relaxed, proper _listening_ time, rather than _analysing_ time (which is much more stressful ).

Re. adapters, Mrsx should be able to make them look no worse than others - they would just need external wires for connecting to the heater power supply (and would also need a clear positioning marker for correct tube insertion, as there's no locating lug on its glass base...nothing too difficult IMHO!). And the sort of 12V power supply I posted recently normally has either 5 or 6 amp handling, and with each GU50 only needing 0.7 amp there's plenty of spare capacity lol! If using 4 tubes, I reckon the neatest approach would be to simply take all 4 wire pairs to a common connector towards the back of the tubes' area, fed by a single (pair) from the power supply...easy....
And their strange look does indeed grow on you...but only gradually lol!!...(and yes, better after a glass or 2 of good wine!! ). Actually, it appears the metal top can in fact be removed, which I'm sure would make it look much better. However, softening the adhesive with a hairdryer is one thing, but prising off the rounded edge would be another entirely! Still, at their silly cheap price, it might just be worth a try!!

Ah well mon ami, the web does indeed keep getting more tangled by the day...but at least I'm keeping true to my word and not leading folks into bankruptcy..._yet!!_ 

Time for supper, so it's BFN...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> And all this well before full burn-in of one tube at least  . Now I just need my second pair of GU50s to arrive from Romania so I can see if the magic continues as a quad ...(hey @OctavianH ...you haven't snaffled them have you lol? The pair from Ukraine arrived in just a week...but then, the Romanians had to travel over the Christmas period, so fair dos!! )...CHEERS!...CJ



I have nothing to do with your tubes, I just want to say that the romanian Post Office is the worse in the universe. So you will receive faster tubes from Mars than from them. Anyway, let's hope they arrive fast and well. I keep my fingers crossed.


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## LoryWiv (Jan 3, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Well LW...I myself found the KT88 quad delivered all that I could ask for in the areas you mention (with my Empyreans), and only surpassed by the GEC TT21s (but which are generally very expensive and you would need a special adapter not as yet available). _*However*_, if you're prepared to go the GU50 route, you may well get all you wish for, and at a fraction of the price...but again would need a special adapter, also not yet available, and the (cheap) 12V heater supply I've covered previously...decisions, decisions.


Ah, @hypnos1, I'm not sure I'm as adventurous as you with the GU50, adapters AND external heaters...the wife would probably banish me and my rig to the attic. Thank goodness we don't have one.

I really appreciate your thoughts on the KT88 quad and I know @barontan2418 is pleased with them in Elise as well. Right now I'm listening to the Beethoven "Archduke" piano trio and Elise driven by KT77 into KT88 powers is making my ZMF Auteur's sing. I will likely try the KT88 quad next but in my zeal for sonic nirvana am also striving to pause periodically, sit back and appreciate how much musical beauty our amps can present to us. The experience you and others on the FA forums share has been a great catalyst for this result, for which I am grateful.

Cheers!


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I have nothing to do with your tubes, I just want to say that the romanian Post Office is the worse in the universe. So you will receive faster tubes from Mars than from them. Anyway, let's hope they arrive fast and well. I keep my fingers crossed.



Ah, so I can't blame you then OH!... But yours is cold comfort re. their not-so-imminent arrival then . Fingers crossed, nonetheless...(and what chance from The Russian Federation I wonder?!! ). 



LoryWiv said:


> Ah, @hypnos1, I'm not sure I'm as adventurous as you with the GU50, adapters AND external heaters...the wife would probably banish me and my rig to the attic. Thank goodness we don't have one.
> 
> 
> I really appreciate your thoughts on the KT88 quad and I know @barontan2418 is pleased with them in Elise as well. Right now I'm listening to the Beethoven "Archduke" piano trio and Elise driven by KT77 into KT88 powers is making my ZMF Auteur's sing. I will likely try the KT88 quad next but in my zeal for sonic nirvana am also striving to pause periodically, sit back and appreciate how much musical beauty our amps can present to us. The experience you and others on the FA forums share has been a great catalyst for this result, for which I am grateful.
> ...



I understand fully LW. And which is why, I'm sure, this amazing tube hasn't been taken on board by more folks...more's the pity lol . But for those used to tinkering, this GU50 is without doubt the bargain of the century..._way_ better than any reissue tube to be sure, and for peanuts!  Their appearance is also probably a factor, which no doubt is one reason why the AudioValve amps hide them in enclosures lol!...(but are obviously rated very highly, with the Assistence model at $11,000 and pair of mono blocks at $7,800!!).


----------



## OctavianH (Jan 4, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, so I can't blame you then OH!... But yours is cold comfort re. their not-so-imminent arrival then . Fingers crossed, nonetheless...(and what chance from The Russian Federation I wonder?!! ).



The Postal Offices here are not a private company but a public service. And we know that these guys managed by the government and not by a private owner are the lazziest on earth because they receive their salaries anyway. In this period the delays are normal since it was Christmas / New Years Eve and they had a lot of free days.

I bought from Russia only once, it took me around 2 weeks, so I have not quite an idea if from Russia -> UK it would take longer.

By the way, if you need any assistance in calling/writing the sender or postal offices in native language to find out the status please inform me. I will gladly help.

PS. The safest way to send goods from Romania -> UK is GLS which has a service for private persons which provides tracking and takes around 6-7 working days (sometimes less). But of course it costs around 40£ so iti does not make sense for a pair of cheap tubes, and usually the vendors prefer the standard shipping which has to be much cheaper.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> The Postal Offices here are not a private company but a public service. And we know that these guys managed by the government and not by a private owner are the lazziest on earth because they receive their salaries anyway. In this period the delays are normal since it was Christmas / New Years Eve and they had a lot of free days.
> 
> I bought from Russia only once, it took me around 2 weeks, so I have not quite an idea if from Russia -> UK it would take longer.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the offer of help OH...hopefully things will go OK! And yep, about two weeks from Russia is what I remember from years back. But a week from Ukraine at £9, even just before Christmas, confirms where I’ll be getting any more from if necessary lol!!

ps. folks...With another 24 hrs on the GU50s as powers stage is now even wider and deeper, and treble matches the superlative quality of the C3g but without the latter’s tendency to harshness with some treble-emphasised recordings. But these qualities are with the GEC TT21s as drivers of course .


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> One thing I noticed as well, that going to the quad of KT88's I needed to raise volume. Now running the KT77 as drivers to the KT88 powers, I don't need to raise the volume as much.  This has happened in the last day or so.  I think it may have been further burn in. Can not account for it in any other portion of the system. All the tubes had the 72 hour burn in from Upscale Audio, and I would estimate this is another fifty hours or so. Now use mainly as pre amp, taking advantage of winter, with the house closed up, and cannot bother neighbors!  This combo has warmed up the Anthem receiver, just enough, and it is a glorious sound coming out of the system now.  I am going to miss this if I move into an apartment.


@connieflyer, over the last several days the GL KT77 driving KT88 in Elise has gone to a new level, perhaps more fully burned in now that I'm well over 100 hours on each. Interestingly, I also am requiring a lesser amp volume setting like yourself, but believe some of that may be that the tubes deliver such excellent detail and musicality that I am actually satisfied listening at a lower dB level. The bass and treble extension have also improved with extended listening. I do wonder if the tubes / bias "settle in" after being in situ for extended hours, rendering judgements made made with relatively short intervals of tube rolling less definitive.

Another factor of course is that I am off work for several days, enjoying some family time and longer listening sessions, and I notice a relaxed state of mind may improve the enjoyment of music considerably. In infectious disease medicine and microbiology we talk about both "host" factors and "pathogen" factors producing the clinical outcome, and whilst I do believe the tube combination is splendid I am sure "host" factors are playing a favorable role  as well.

Anyway, enough of my prattle. A quad of KT88's will probably be in my Elise's future, but today I am just enjoying the music so much, and of course that is the true north in all of this. I appreciate the insights and camaraderie of fellow forum members on this journey.


----------



## Mh996

To those owning both, how does the performance with KTs as powers compare to the EL39? I’ve gone back to stock since I had a 39 die on me, and I’m debating between waiting for another to show up or going in on some KT88s from Upscale. Where can adapters for these be found?


----------



## LoryWiv

I can't speak to the KT versus EL39 comparison as I've only tried former, but can recommend headfier @Deyan for good KT adapters. Another option is ebay seller xulingmrs.


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf...yo, but at the moment I'm more _dumbfounded_ by these GU50s than actually being able to _enjoy_ them lol!! ...(you know the trials and tribulations of assessing new tubes!! ). Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to have some more relaxed, proper _listening_ time, rather than _analysing_ time (which is much more stressful ).
> 
> Re. adapters, Mrsx should be able to make them look no worse than others - they would just need external wires for connecting to the heater power supply (and would also need a clear positioning marker for correct tube insertion, as there's no locating lug on its glass base...nothing too difficult IMHO!). And the sort of 12V power supply I posted recently normally has either 5 or 6 amp handling, and with each GU50 only needing 0.7 amp there's plenty of spare capacity lol! If using 4 tubes, I reckon the neatest approach would be to simply take all 4 wire pairs to a common connector towards the back of the tubes' area, fed by a single (pair) from the power supply...easy....
> And their strange look does indeed grow on you...but only gradually lol!!...(and yes, better after a glass or 2 of good wine!! ). Actually, it appears the metal top can in fact be removed, which I'm sure would make it look much better. However, softening the adhesive with a hairdryer is one thing, but prising off the rounded edge would be another entirely! Still, at their silly cheap price, it might just be worth a try!!
> ...


Hi h1,
How do you know how to position the GU50 in the sockets if there is no guide pin or markings?


----------



## Johnnysound (Jan 7, 2020)

*


----------



## connieflyer

Just wanted to drop a note to remind folks here about the fires in Australia, and the concern we have for especially one of our members here UntilThen.  I dropped him a PM this morning, to see how he is doing and if he is impacted.  Over 23 people have already been killed in the fires, and oveer 1400 homes destroyed. If you get a minute you that know Matt drop him a PM.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> How do you know how to position the GU50 in the sockets if there is no guide pin or markings?



Hi m...good question. The 'guide' for this GU50 tube is in fact a raised section that runs 2/3rds the way down its side, denoting the_ cathode _position, and which would therefore fit correctly in the corresponding guide in bespoke holders. But going straight into a socket would need this position marked clearly on the socket itself, so as to marry up with said raised section on the tube. This would obviously have to be pointed out to any 3rd party maker of adapters....    :


 

The raised guide clearly visible above.

The tube's pins are unevenly spaced, so there are in fact only 2 ways it will fit in the socket, which should limit the chance of incorrect insertion.

And as for that rather strange metal top cover, it obviously can in fact be removed and looks much better for it IMHO!! ...as can be seen below :

  

(Shan't bother with the LED lights from underneath though, even if it does look 'pretty'!! ). 

All I need to do now is work out just how to remove the curved metal cap without breaking the tube lol! ...(just as well I've got some more tubes coming..._eventually!!!_).

ps. Actually, with these GU50s costing just a few bucks each I'm sorely tempted to make up a _neat (not 'Frankenstein!)_ 2x tube array for each power slot, which should be easy enough to slip in a couple of small leds..._with McKintosh blue!_...(sounds better the more I think of it lol!! ).

pps. And now with these GU50s beating all comers, I must thank you mordy for providing the extra push for me to test the JAC Music guy's assertion that this tube is 'better' than the KT88...was undecided until then...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Okay, CJ, you are tempting me more and more with these tubes,  I have been resisting hard, but I feel I am starting to weaken.  Sounds like you are getting excellent results, so may have to bite the bullet.  Now, should you decide to make the above alterations, ESPECIALLY the Mc blue, I am afraid I would again have to follow you done the garden path!  After watching the blue meters on the pair of McIntosh 600 watt amps in the demo room, still want to avail myself of the magic.  I know that they used to offer a pair of the meters as a stand alone option years ago, should have bought them then and saved my self some money.  Were you contemplating four Gu50's power and a pair as drivers?


----------



## connieflyer

Now this one is hitting close to home!


----------



## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> To those owning both, how does the performance with KTs as powers compare to the EL39? I’ve gone back to stock since I had a 39 die on me, and I’m debating between waiting for another to show up or going in on some KT88s from Upscale. Where can adapters for these be found?



Hi Mh996.

As usual, a certain amount is going to depend on one's system, but I personally found the KT88s to provide that bit more in most areas compared to the EL39...something I never actually thought possible lol ...especially in the bass, mids and soundstage/positioning. Adapters are available either from member Deyan or xulingmrs as previously mentioned. I myself have tried one of Mrsx's adapters and found it worked perfectly : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl     And at $27 a pair incl shipping is actually a very good price indeed IMHO!

ps. Just to make things even more difficult for you(!), I probably have a spare EL39 (at a reasonable price)...decisions, decisions lol ...


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 5, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Okay, CJ, you are tempting me more and more with these tubes,  I have been resisting hard, but I feel I am starting to weaken.  Sounds like you are getting excellent results, so may have to bite the bullet.  Now, should you decide to make the above alterations, ESPECIALLY the Mc blue, I am afraid I would again have to follow you done the garden path!  After watching the blue meters on the pair of McIntosh 600 watt amps in the demo room, still want to avail myself of the magic.  I know that they used to offer a pair of the meters as a stand alone option years ago, should have bought them then and saved my self some money.  Were you contemplating four Gu50's power and a pair as drivers?



Oh dear, cf...resistance is futile, don't ya know??!!  But as my deputy-in-chief new tube tester, you do have a certain responsibilty to our comrades lol! 

But seriously, it's always good to have others' views on tubes that I rave about especially...even though each different system is bound to vary somewhat in its delivery.
To be fair to others, it would need 3rd party adapters to be commissioned and tested...Mrsx has always been obliging in this, and so I'm happy to ask her once more if seriously interested.

With regard to trying a quad as _*powers*_, this is further down the road as yet...but will keep you updated on the project (and will definitely consider some 'Mc blue' adornment lol!). As for GU50 drivers, I'm really keen to see just how they match up to the GEC TT21s but am still waiting for more tubes!!...(have ordered another 4 - at $3 each!! - this time from Moldova...any ideas on their postal system @OctavianH ?!! )....BFN...CJ

ps. How did you know that just now I was looking at the very amp you showed that uses the GU50?...and a nice one it looks too lol!!


----------



## connieflyer

Could be we think alike!


----------



## Mh996

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Mh996.
> 
> As usual, a certain amount is going to depend on one's system, but I personally found the KT88s to provide that bit more in most areas compared to the EL39...something I never actually thought possible lol ...especially in the bass, mids and soundstage/positioning. Adapters are available either from member Deyan or xulingmrs as previously mentioned. I myself have tried one of Mrsx's adapters and found it worked perfectly : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-6...155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl     And at $27 a pair incl shipping is actually a very good price indeed IMHO!
> 
> ps. Just to make things even more difficult for you(!), I probably have a spare EL39 (at a reasonable price)...decisions, decisions lol ...


Ah, how you guys make upgrading such a challenge with all these options! I almost can’t believe the soundstage could be wider than with the EL39s. It’s nice that this thread is circling around to a lot of tubes that are readily available. I searched for a month before I could find a pair of 39s and I’ve been looking for some EL11s to show up since before my Euforia delivered in July! Have any of those you’re trying to get rid of?


----------



## connieflyer

I have more great combos of tubes then I'll ever be able to use. I have a pair of e l 11 if you're interested. How about $10,000 a tube! Or best offer!


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, so I can't blame you then OH!... But yours is cold comfort re. their not-so-imminent arrival then . Fingers crossed, nonetheless...(and what chance from The Russian Federation I wonder?!! ).
> 
> 
> 
> I understand fully LW. And which is why, I'm sure, this amazing tube hasn't been taken on board by more folks...more's the pity lol . But for those used to tinkering, this GU50 is without doubt the bargain of the century..._way_ better than any reissue tube to be sure, and for peanuts!  Their appearance is also probably a factor, which no doubt is one reason why the AudioValve amps hide them in enclosures lol!...(but are obviously rated very highly, with the Assistence model at $11,000 and pair of mono blocks at $7,800!!).



I'm certainly getting on board H1 and have a quad winging their way from Russia. Might/will ask you for a step by step on sorting the external power at a later date as this is totally new to me. Hope this is OK.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> I'm certainly getting on board H1 and have a quad winging their way from Russia. Might/will ask you for a step by step on sorting the external power at a later date as this is totally new to me. Hope this is OK.



Hi bt...and congrats on biting the bullet re. this GU50 project. With @connieflyer also interested I'll get under way with contacting Mrsx and giving precise instructions for the adapter. And of course I'll give more details on the 12V power supply...cheap, and a piece of cake...if you can strip a piece of wire and stick it in a connector lol! 

And to whet your appetite even further, with well over 100 hrs on both mine as powers, I can now officially say that IMHO   :

....................................... 

And is something I'm still trying to get head around lol! ...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...and congrats on biting the bullet re. this GU50 project. With @connieflyer also interested I'll get under way with contacting Mrsx and giving precise instructions for the adapter. And of course I'll give more details on the 12V power supply...cheap, and a piece of cake...if you can strip a piece of wire and stick it in a connector lol!
> 
> And to whet your appetite even further, with well over 100 hrs on both mine as powers, I can now officially say that IMHO   :
> 
> ...


Many thanks once again H1. Is this the end of a journey I ask myself?


----------



## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> Ah, how you guys make upgrading such a challenge with all these options! I almost can’t believe the soundstage could be wider than with the EL39s. It’s nice that this thread is circling around to a lot of tubes that are readily available. I searched for a month before I could find a pair of 39s and I’ve been looking for some EL11s to show up since before my Euforia delivered in July! Have any of those you’re trying to get rid of?



Hi Mh996. Will get searching through my EL tubes and PM you when sorted...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Many thanks once again H1. Is this the end of a journey I ask myself?



Have been asking myself this for _years_ now, bt...along with a good few others no doubt!!  Perhaps there just _might_ be other tubes out there that our amps can miraculously use so wonderfully, but I'm glad to say that in all my extensive searches in DIY land there seems nothing that stands out as a possible candidate...(that we could use, at least). In fact, I get the impression that the only tubes worth upgrading to from the GU50 are the direct-heated 2A3/300B/45, which of course are different animals entirely...and $$$$$ for good tubes alone, not to mention good amps that can use them well!!

So I'm sure the GU50 will indeed be my swansong...._hopefully!! ..._CHEERS!...and BFN...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 6, 2020)

Good morning CJ, as far as the journey goes, it's as far as you care to take it I would imagine. I think it also depends on what you become satisfied with. If after a period  of time the GU 50 starts to seem lacking in some way , then the journey would begin all over. Perhaps with a different amplifier, no sense in making it too easy! Either way I thank you very much for guiding us down this path it has been great and hopefully it can infect yet better!


----------



## connieflyer

This might be interesting.....................................https://www.caryaudio.com/products/sli-100/


----------



## OctavianH (Jan 6, 2020)

This might be also:
https://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=127

I found also a dedicated thread here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...mm-impedanced-matched-output-us-2-399.918779/

Check the "Parameters tab":







If I understand correctly, based on "Ultra linear" or "Triode mode" selection you can use all those types of tubes, including KT66, KT77, KT88 and so on.


----------



## mordy

Well, the Cary is $6000 and the Cayin is $2400.
Here is something different - an amp that doesn't need any tube rolling - will sound the same with inexpensive and expensive tubes and it can drive speakers as well:




Oblivion by UltrasonicStudios
http://ultrasonicstudios.org/oblivion/


----------



## mordy

Oh, I forgot - I want my next amp to have big bling meters...
And it has to be green.
Maybe this will do...




Or this?




Oops - I forgot the meters....




Maybe too big a meter?




Big, bold, powerful.....design inspiration?


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 7, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Good morning CJ, as far as the journey goes, it's as far as you care to take it I would imagine. I think it also depends on what you become satisfied with. If after a period  of time the GU 50 starts to seem lacking in some way , then the journey would begin all over. Perhaps with a different amplifier, no sense in making it too easy! Either way I thank you very much for guiding us down this path it has been great and hopefully it can infect yet better!



Hmmm cf, you're intent on leading _me_ down another rabbit hole methinks, no?!!  But _if_ I should be tempted at a later date, it would probably be with something not too expensive that I could play around with, replacing wire/caps/resistors!!

But, mon ami, the way my Euforia is now sounding with TT21s driving the GU50s, it could well be a fruitless exercise! (but possibly an _interestting _one at least). I reckon it would need to be something rather expensive to surpass this sound by much of a margin...more hours on my 50s have brought yet another surprise - notes that don't just 'sustain and decay' but *hang* and then dissipate into 3D space like I've never heard before . All of which - once again - confirms that _power_ tubes in an OTL amp (as with _trafo_ quality in an SET amp) _do_ in fact have a much greater influence on final sound delivery than conventionally regarded...(_drivers_ traditionally given most of the credit lol!). However, no doubt the prowess of the rest of one's system is also a deciding factor in this...

Anyway - @barontan2418 also - I've started the ball rolling with Mrsx re. GU50 adapters. And as you're here in the UK, bt, I shall order some so that I can try them myself first...then, posting them to you won't cost much more, if that's OK....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm cf, you're intent on leading _me_ down another rabbit hole methinks, no?!!  But _if_ I should be tempted at a later date, it would probably be with something not too expensive that I could play around with, replacing wire/caps/resistors!!
> 
> But, mon ami, the way my Euforia is now sounding with TT21s driving the GU50s, it could well be a fruitless exercise! (but possibly an _interestting _one at least). I reckon it would need to be something rather expensive to surpass this sound by much of a margin...more hours on my 50s have brought yet another surprise - notes that don't just 'sustain and decay' but *hang* and then dissipate into 3D space like I've never heard before . All of which - once again - confirms that _power_ tubes in an OTL amp (as with _trafo_ quality in an SET amp) _do_ in fact have a much greater influence on final sound delivery than conventionally regarded...(_drivers_ traditionally given most of the credit lol!). However, no doubt the prowess of the rest of one's system is also a deciding factor in this...
> 
> Anyway - @barontan2418 also - I've started the ball rolling with Mrsx re. GU50 adapters. And as you're here in the UK, bt, I shall order some so that I can try them myself first...then, posting them to you won't cost much more, if that's OK....CHEERS!...CJ



Sounds good to me CJ. Just PM me the cost.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Sounds good to me CJ. Just PM me the cost.



Actually bt, while I'm at it I wonder if it would be a good idea for me to get the necessary 12V power supply also, and perhaps make a video of the whole procedure lol?...just an idea......CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Actually bt, while I'm at it I wonder if it would be a good idea for me to get the necessary 12V power supply also, and perhaps make a video of the whole procedure lol?...just an idea......CJ



Go for it CJ.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Go for it CJ.



Will do...BFN...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Will do...BFN...CJ


Things happen so fast - did you decide on 2 or 4 GU50’s? Or only use them as power tubes?


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Things happen so fast - did you decide on 2 or 4 GU50’s? Or only use them as power tubes?



Yo mordy...can hardly keep up myself lol! . Unable to wait for my second pair of GU50s to try as drivers (thus a quad) - they're waiting at the postal sorting office  - this evening I swapped over with my GEC TT21s and am still unsure what's going on. As drivers to the 21s, I get a light buzz with the vol knob between 10 o'clock and 5 o'clock, but silent before and _after_...with and/or without music playing...very strange indeed! Luckily, I can vary the signal output from my Hugo2, with by far the best result being with the latter turned right down and Euforia's vol knob one section off max (ie. '5 o'clock'). The other way round brings more harshness, with H2 near max output. And so this anomaly will obviously depend upon each person's own signal input level alas...

Anyway, with the GU50s as drivers, and the GECs back in the power slot, the sub-bass 'thud' is back and have yet to determine if it's at the expense of overall bass delivery. But what I will say at this early stage is that the sound is very impressive indeed...perhaps a tad less _smooth_, but a shade more dynamic. But not a lot in it actually...need much more time and different test pieces to be certain. And so this is going to make the quad of GU50s even _more _interesting of course!!...so stay tuned lol ...

Time for zzzzz, so BFN...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Jan 8, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi m...good question. The 'guide' for this GU50 tube is in fact a raised section that runs 2/3rds the way down its side, denoting the_ cathode _position, and which would therefore fit correctly in the corresponding guide in bespoke holders. But going straight into a socket would need this position marked clearly on the socket itself, so as to marry up with said raised section on the tube. This would obviously have to be pointed out to any 3rd party maker of adapters....    :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would wonder if somehow the exterior glass may cause some indirect sonic benefit (such as vibration absorption), so if removing it I personally would do an A/B with one with / without the outer glass shell. At least this would allow an easier fit for a quad GU50 powers setup anyway.


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> I would wonder if somehow the exterior glass may cause some indirect sonic benefit (such as vibration absorption), so if removing it I personally would do an A/B with one with / without the outer glass shell. At least this would allow an easier fit for a quad GU50 powers setup anyway.



The only bespoke tube holder that seems available is the open-sided metal 'trash can' type, with no exterior "glass shell"(?). And I think the only benefit was from military ease of use in the field. There are in fact quite a few amps out there using the GU50/Chinese FU50 and they all have the tube by itself, with no holder...


----------



## hypnos1

........................................*Important update on the GU50 as driver*...............................

OK @mordy and any others interested in the* GU50 as driver*, not just power tube.

My last post re. the slight noise at certain volume knob settings prompted me to try the KT88 as powers...which I was gonna do anyway lol!  Although much less than with the TT21 powers, it was still there to a certain extent. From previous experience with even worse hum/buzz using my 12V supply for the 13V FDD20, I once again connected the negative wire _from _the supply back to the mains Earth wire et voila!...completely gone!! And so another case of 'grounding issues/loop', which is why many items of hi fi equipment have a specific 'ground connector' in case of such issues.

Anyway, at least this is a problem easily remedied for most folks, if necessary - as described above...thank goodness!...and much cheaper than going for a good quality (grounded) linear power supply .

And which is also good news because as a driver (to the KT88 powers) *it is exceptional!* Better in fact IMHO than KT88s driving KT88s...certainly in my own system. The volume knob needs another couple of notches, but is no problem at all - even when turned up to ear-shattering levels there's no hint of distortion whatsoever. Stage is even wider, with superlative bass and more mids emphasis. Treble is sweet, detailed and extended, with an even more dynamic presentation overall. 

In other words, this GU50 excels not only as a power tube in our amps, but equally as driver. I know of no other amp (or project) that uses this tube in *both* roles, let alone do so to such a high level of performance.

All that now remains is to see just how well they perform with one (2, rather!) driving the other(s)...and which could possibly be an even more important finding, given the meagre cost of four GU50s (typically $12 to $15, plus shipping!!).

Hopefully, this will be answered in the next couple of days......BFN...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

If we can use KT77 in our amps, can we also use EL34? I guess these tubes are close/similar.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 9, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> If we can use KT77 in our amps, can we also use EL34? I guess these tubes are close/similar.



Hi OH. The EL34 is wired slightly differently - ie. grid #3 isn't connected internally to the cathode, unlike the 6L6/KT66/77/88 etc. And so as we need that connection (as triode) you would need to link *socket* pins 1 and 8, using a piece of thin stranded wire. However, it seems the majority of folks out there prefer the KT77 to the EL34 anyway...but as usual, _different strokes for different folks..._and _equipment_ lol!! 

ps. My GU50s arrived from Romania the other day, so it wasn't too bad really, considering Christmas...


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## OctavianH

The question came into my mind while reading this:
https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> The question came into my mind while reading this:
> https://www.tubesforamps.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-differences



Hey OH...you readin' my mind just like @connieflyer ? Was looking at that very article myself just now lol!! 

ps. Re. the need for linking pins 1 and 8 to use the EL34, they're the ones in the *adapter's* socket of course!!


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## hypnos1

Hey @OctavianH ...I've just tested Mrsx's 6L6/7581 adapter, and hers at least _have_ infact been wired with pins 1 and 8 connected, so they should already be OK to take the EL34 after all lol ...

Now then guys, after checking the GU50s drive KT88s to perfection (with the 12V supply negative wire now connected to mains Earth wire), I put back my GEC TT21s as powers and...WOW!... With sub-bass back (if overall bass/lower mids not hitting _quite _as hard as with KT88 or GU50 powers, I now realise I myself actually prefer the smoother, more 'refined', better balanced delivery of the GECs (which they're generally renowned for anyway lol!). And the GU50s as drivers help give them just a _tad _more dynamism and bite...with a soundstage that goes even wider and more 3 dimensional. So for me - and my system - this is now (for the moment at least lol!) my favourite combo. And I suspect therefore that the GU50 quad might not maintain this preferred sound...will know soon (if I can leave this laptop and get back to work lol! ). More likely could well be a GU50/GEC TT21 joined pair per channel (power)...but that'll have to wait a wee while! 

Anyway, a pic of my latest 'magic combo' :


 

ps. These GU50s are undoubtedly the best drivers I myself have ever tried in my Euforia setup......(who'd have ever believed it lol?!...we now have a truly *unique* amp!! )...CJ


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## connieflyer (Jan 9, 2020)

Looked for the TT 21's but the price for a quad was a bit much!  https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...77-production-date-and-batch-matched-rare-wi/ 
Asking Price: 	
USD $12345.00

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aby0019.htm nice info


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## connieflyer

Article of interest,  "The Story of the Valve"  http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-001.htm


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Looked for the TT 21's but the price for a quad was a bit much!  https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...77-production-date-and-batch-matched-rare-wi/
> Asking Price:
> USD $12345.00
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aby0019.htm nice info



Huh cf...this is the sort of thing that gives our hobby a very bad name IMO lol!  Either this guy is totally insane, or worse, the sort that fishes for some poor soul who misreads the figure...there should be one decimal place *less* in there!!...viz. NOS TT21s usually go on average for about $320 over here (or from elsewhere), so do the math lol!  And not only that, but although they're very good, they aren't _that _good...going by my own system at least. These $3 GU50s for example are only a whisker behind them, and in some ways would suit certain systems and ears _better!_ ...Having about 15 hours on my first GU50 *power driven by another* (with 100+hrs on), it was interesting today to hear the difference between this and the other channel with GU50/GEC TT21 through my Tannoy XT6f speakers. The latter combo was by no means way ahead...in fact, to some ears it might even seem a tad too _soft_ in comparison, especially if the rest of the system is on the 'dark' side. To tell the truth, it confirmed that I shall indeed probably need to combine the GU50 and TT21 as power duos, assuming any differences aren't _too_ significant and are able to merge seamlessly...stage and PRaT particularly mustn't be too far off each other or will certainly clash, especially noticeable in hi-end headphones. 

I should have a better idea soon as to what may be needed as this afternoon I managed to finish converting the 4th GU50, and so now have 2x driving 2x powers. Mind you, it'll still be a while yet, given the long burn-in they need lol!  Will keep y'all informed...CJ

ps. Already, the quad of GU50s perform together magnificently .

pps. Blue leds on their way!......


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## Johnnysound (Jan 10, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Huh cf...this is the sort of thing that gives our hobby a very bad name IMO lol!  Either this guy is totally insane, or worse, the sort that fishes for some poor soul who misreads the figure...there should be one decimal place *less* in there!!...viz. NOS TT21s usually go on average for about $320 over here (or from elsewhere), so do the math lol!  And not only that, but although they're very good, they aren't _that _good...going by my own system at least. These $3 GU50s for example are only a whisker behind them, and in some ways would suit certain systems and ears _better!_ ...Having about 15 hours on my first GU50 *power driven by another* (with 100+hrs on), it was interesting today to hear the difference between this and the other channel with GU50/GEC TT21 through my Tannoy XT6f speakers. The latter combo was by no means way ahead...in fact, to some ears it might even seem a tad too _soft_ in comparison, especially if the rest of the system is on the 'dark' side. To tell the truth, it confirmed that I shall indeed probably need to combine the GU50 and TT21 as power duos, assuming any differences aren't _too_ significant and are able to merge seamlessly...stage and PRaT particularly mustn't be too far off each other or will certainly clash, especially noticeable in hi-end headphones.
> 
> I should have a better idea soon as to what may be needed as this afternoon I managed to finish converting the 4th GU50, and so now have 2x driving 2x powers. Mind you, it'll still be a while yet, given the long burn-in they need lol!  Will keep y'all informed...CJ
> 
> ...



Hey CJ...another of your great tube discoveries !!  And a *significant* one it seems, if a $ 3 GU50 tube  is able to even approach the performance of a $ 250 thoroughbred, then I really LIKE this one !!   But, no adaptors available...(?) Regarding the external PS, well, the fuss of setting up one is worth the effort, and (remembering our old LDMKIII) I do have the laptop 12V P.S. along with the voltage regulator we used to adapt the big 6AS7Gs, to precisely 6.3 volts. The GU50 is 12.6 volts DC, so it looks like, say, a 15V (or more) PS, plus regulator to 12.6 V should be a more precise fit.   However, I do not think that the .6 volt difference could seriously affect performance...or it will ?  Amperage is another matter,  GU50s have *very low *current draw at 0.7 Amp each, (revealing their military nature).  Now, standard 12V laptop PS will give about 40W, which is 3.3 amps at 12 volts...enough for 4 tubes, but, It will get hot for sure.   I am a true believer in oversized power supplies for great audio, and my bet is that the GU50s would sound best at their precise 12.6 v design spec, plus at least 30 or 40% power supply headroom.
Anyway, with no adaptors commercially available, all this is just speculation on my side...great work CJ !!


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## Johnnysound (Jan 11, 2020)

Reading about CJs Euforia stellar performance with 2 x GU50 plus 2 x TT21 as powers, driving his very nice Vincent SS amp, and a pair of gorgeous Tannoy speakers, or CFs Euforia driving his also super nice Anthem SS amp to great SVS speakers, I am much more in tune, and able to understand that kind of performance.  With my dual mono NAD powers, and US made LSA 2.1 floorstanders (out of this world) Euforia sounded mightily dynamic, impressive, and as I have said dozens of times, there is almost *nothing* that even comes close to an OTL tube preamp driving an SS amp....save for a good, powerful tube power amp, which is like entering into a whole  new,  “Alice into Wonderland” magic territory...


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## hypnos1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Johnnysound said:


> Hey CJ...another of your great tube discoveries !!  And a *significant* one it seems, if a $ 3 GU50 tube  is able to even approach the performance of a $ 250 thoroughbred, then I really LIKE this one !!   But, no adaptors available...(?) Regarding the external PS, well, the fuss of setting up one is worth the effort, and (remembering our old LDMKIII) I do have the laptop 12V P.S. along with the voltage regulator we used to adapt the big 6AS7Gs, to precisely 6.3 volts. The GU50 is 12.6 volts DC, so it looks like, say, a 15V (or more) PS, plus regulator to 12.6 V should be a more precise fit.   However, I do not think that the .6 volt difference could seriously affect performance...or it will ?  Amperage is another matter,  GU50s have *very low *current draw at 0.7 Amp each, (revealing their military nature).  Now, standard 12V laptop PS will give about 40W, which is 3.3 amps at 12 volts...enough for 4 tubes, but, It will get hot for sure.   I am a true believer in oversized power supplies for great audio, and my bet is that the GU50s would sound best at their precise 12.6 v design spec, plus at least 30 or 40% power supply headroom.
> Anyway, with no adaptors commercially available, all this is just speculation on my side...great work CJ !!



Hi J.

Well mon ami, with about 45 hrs on one GU50 and 24 hrs on the other as powers, plus _many_ more hours on 2 as drivers, my listening session just now has got me in total disbelief._ Already_ this is by a good margin the *best* (overall) sound to come out of my setup...in any area you care to name - bass; mids; treble; clarity; precision; PRaT; liquidity; balance; control...and with a soundstage that is simply phenomenal. The $350 GEC TT21 may have a tad more _sub_-bass that you can actually _feel_ thru headphones, and its softer delivery ideal for gentle choral such as Voces 8 material, but in most other respects the $3 GU50 *surpasses* it (in my own system, of course).

Although it's still early days for the last 2 tubes, their crisp, detailed _energetic_ delivery is the most exciting I have yet encountered, and is really scrambling my brain as to whether I prefer this, or the more laid back delivery of the GECs...and I simply refuse to keep changing tubes to suit the genre!  All I can hope for is that duelling (or, _dualing_ even!) them might just achieve a satisfactory compromise, and so confirms my decision to give it a try...fingers crossed lol! 

Just how this amp is able to pull off this _major_ miracle I simply don't know, but obviously runs this tube to what must be near - or _at!_ - perfection...as both power AND driver.

And so I cannot wait to see how they perform with a good few more hours on the last 2...(I do hope they don't change for the worse - which can happen alas, even if only rarely!! But my gut instinct is that they can only get even _better!_ ...).

Time for an updated pic of the super quad in question......complete with blue leds, just for you @connieflyer (! )...OK...for me too lol!! - (they do make these tubes look more attractive...the final touch being when I can get those darned metal tops removed ).



ps. My 12V "LED strip" power supply is feeding the heaters perfectly, without getting too hot (even after 10+ hours' continuous use). Mine is rated at *6 amps* and so has plenty of spare capacity, given the 4x GU50s' 2.8A total draw....IMO no need whatsoever for a higher V unit _plus_ a voltage regulator. It also actually outputs 12.3V, and worked flawlessly with the 13V FDD20...apart from the fact this kind of power block *must* have its 12V DC_* negative *_wire connected to *mains supply earth* to kill any hum/buzz distortion!!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

connieflyer said:


> Looked for the TT 21's but the price for a quad was a bit much!  https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...77-production-date-and-batch-matched-rare-wi/
> Asking Price:
> USD $12345.00
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aby0019.htm nice info



Ah that 12345 was probably just a default price 

I didn't check but I guess the shipping cost was 678910


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## connieflyer

It was a joke


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## hypnos1

ps. @Johnnysound and anyone interested, I asked xulingmrs to make adapters for the GU50 a few days ago and they agreed. I expect it's taking longer than usual because of the need for extra work in attaching external heater wires, so hopefully they'll be available some time next week. Will keep y'all informed...CJ


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## connieflyer

Thanks for doing this for us C.J. You the man!


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## hypnos1

OK guys...information update on the quad of GU50s (plus interim dual GEC TT21/GU50 power findings).

But first, a word re. adapters from Mrsx. It looks like they take a good long break over Chinese New Year...until *15th Feb, no less!!!* And no listing yet, so presumably unable to finish any before the hols...but will keep checking just in case lol . Ah well, at least it gives folks who might be interested a bit of a break/breather after the KT project!! 

Speaking of which, I know this is in some ways - for me at least! - a double-edged sword, but with now well over 100 hrs on all 4 GU50s I can confirm that this tube does indeed surpass *ALL* previous ones (driver and power) I have used in my system...including the EL39 and 7581A/KT66/KT88 (plus, of course, the famous GEC/Osram 6AS7G family).

As with the first 2x 50s, vocal positioning led me a merry dance until after about 40 hrs (including several 1 hr cooling periods) it returned to its wonderfully intimate state, after sounding a bit recessed. And with even more time on them, the quad combo took a leap in the treble arena also...outperforming even the GEC TT21 by a good margin, and leaving the excellent treble of the C3g in its wake, in both range and sibilance handling...and with bass and mids the C3g can only dream of lol!  The quad's overall 'clean' delivery and clarity have also never been matched, let alone surpassed.

And so it pains me to think of the large sums of money I've spent over the past few years on tubes that are indeed no match for this GU50...regardless of price/reputation. But then, that's the nature of this (obsessive! ) hobby of ours, no?!! 

Anyway, on to the GEC TT21. First, I will say that good though it is, I do not recommend anyone spending the kind of money they command...stick with the KTs of choice (but originals still probably beyond most folks' wallets alas). And _*overall*_, the GU50 is in fact a better performer. However, the TT21s _sub_-bass - the sort of frequencies you _feel_, rather than _hear_ - is quite exceptional, and so a nice addition to the otherwise greater bass range of the GU50. And thankfully, my initial experiment with 1x set of dualed TT21/GU50 as power confirmed that they do marry and complement each other perfectly...and so, no doubt, with the 2nd set in situ, I'm sure bass will be even more exciting...along with a few other additions courtesy of the 2 (different) powers per channel (hopefully to be discovered later today ...). Will keep you informed...CJ


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## connieflyer

CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time.  Had ammunition this time,  tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply.  So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you!  Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS!  Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to  myself) wow sounding rather good.  But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better.  And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters.  True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap.  And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes?  And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly.  There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time.  You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist.  I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound.  Almost there, my  friend!


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## teknorob23 (Jan 17, 2020)

First off sorry this Euforia AE update has been so long in coming, yet again i return to see my KT188's are now very much last years news. Good job they sound so damn good with AE/H2/Stellia triumvirate playing mostly electronic music, so much so i've been reluctant to swap them out for EL39/EL11, the tube combo i know the best, in order that i can make some slightly more reliable comparisons to the standard Mk2 Euforia (as i had not tried the KT88s on the old amp before it went).  The EL39/11s have been in all weekend, and wow they sound good too, slightly sweeter than the KT88 quad and maybe a touch more relaxed. They dont have the pace or quite the levels of detail, the bass is deep but cant compete in terms of resolution and scale. All of that said there's still something special about this combo that means i'm not in any rush to swap back just yet.

But what about the AE? before i start, i have a string of disclaimers: my comparative impressions are 99% based on my increasing addled memory, with only a very brief back to back demo 2 months ago, at just over a month old the AE is very much still the new toy in my set up and of course all of this is based on being used exclusively with my partnering kit.

The amp is at about 200hrs+ (i've stopped counting) and i have to say, I dont know how much run in time it had at the factory, but it sounded very good out of the box. The staging is noticeably more expansive in all directions, and clarity and amount detail that floods through to fill the stage, but with amazing control, focus and dynamism, its breath taking. My old amp had all of these traits, but listening the AE i get a similar impression to when i first heard the Euforia after demo'ing the Elise. My Euforia was just perfect, amazing, love at first sight and then i hear the AE all the good stuff is just turned up to 11, or perhaps 12 or even 13. The stage is bigger and way deeper, the bass goes lower the highs are more extended too. Its like the whole frequency range has gone widescreen. The mids are expanded almost more than any other area and i'm hearing levels of detail here that i've just not heard on any head amp. I made the unfashionable decision to sell the ZMF VCs and kept the Stellias, because the tuning is more forward, the presentation is more dynamic and the detail is just better too, but the mids were the clincher, and the with AE i'm hearing detail, but packaged in such beautifully musical way that i've just not heard before and especially in the middle. It really feels like i'm getting almost every bit of detail the Hugo2 can offer, all through the range. It feels like the AE has come into my system and every other component has just had to raise its game or maybe have just been a collectively stretching of legs, showing of potential.

Before i ordered the AE, i had been getting very close to risking penury by pulling the trigger on the Hugo TT2, which i had demo'd 4 times, with and without the Euforia it sounded stunning. The AE arrived late, nearly too late, so i listened to almost out of politeness to Jack at Audiobarn as my mind was made up. Bearing in mind also it was pretty much stone cold, straight out of the box, and i had been listening to my Euforia with TT2 for couple hours already, the AE had me with first track i played through it, which happened to be Radiohead/ good morning mr magpie (nothing special in audiophile terms but its become a tradition for christening new gear), and by the end of the 3rd song headphones, were off and i was downstairs asking about lead times and if i could prize this one out of his hands.

One other feature i should mention is its prowess as a preamp. I have been using daily with my Primare AV Amp/ PMC Twenty5.22 and its been nothing short of revelation, because while i liked the old amp, i did find the synergy with my Hifi gear wasn't great, i was losing too much detail and the bass was a little out of control and the stage was little congested compared to coming straight out of the DAC, but here the AE is like a different machine entirely. The Primare, while musical can sound a little analytical, but with the AE, fed by the H2, the clarity and detail are very good, as is the control and separation in the bass, the stage is expansive yet focused, all with that lovely body, naturalness of tone i got in spades listening to the Euforia as headamp. Essentially i cant listen to music through speakers without it, which was not the case at all before.

So all in all combining the comprehensive upgrade as a headamp and its revelatory performance in my set up as a preamp, the AE feels like one of the best if not the best value upgrades i've made in my hifi life. Hats off to Lukasz and his team, its a serious accomplishment to take an already wonderful amp, make what looks on paper to be just a few tweaks, to end up with machine that more expensive yet feels better value than its outstanding sibling. All of course helped by the Euforia's rock solid 2nd hand value.

I'm searching for a downside and the best i can do, is to confirm, as was widely predicted when the AE was announced, the new paint job is a serious dust magnet

I come back to my caveats, i am firmly in middle of the honeymoon period and i loved my Euforia as it was, so i'll let you know how the AE and i feel about each other in another 200hrs.  .

Edit: One big caveat to my impressions must be the music i listen to. I'm going through an almost exclusively electronic phase, mainly because theres been so much good stuff coming out over the last 18-24mts: Heres just a few highlights


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time.  Had ammunition this time,  tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply.  So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you!  Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS!  Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to  myself) wow sounding rather good.  But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better.  And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters.  True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap.  And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes?  And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly.  There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time.  You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist.  I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound.  Almost there, my  friend!


To quote the Borg: "Resistance is futile"! Or perhaps there is a 12 step AA meeting we can attend: "Audiophiles Anonymous".


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## connieflyer

LoryWiv  funny, I was going to quote that but did not know how many would have heard it world wide. But since you brought it up, with C.J. the force is strong in that one!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time.  Had ammunition this time,  tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply.  So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you!  Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS!  Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to  myself) wow sounding rather good.  But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better.  And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters.  True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap.  And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes?  And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly.  There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time.  You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist.  I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound.  Almost there, my  friend!



Hi cf...and am so sorry for putting you through the mangle yet again lol! You have indeed endured one progression after another these past years mon ami, and in the process amassed a good few (now pretty well obsolete!) tubes, even though they do sometimes make for interesting new partnerships . And yes, the GU50 does bring with it a couple of downsides for those who need to rely on 3rd party adapters, and play around with separate heater power supplies (but which isn't too difficult for the unititiated!). And yes again, it must be about the most unprepossessing tube out there . But it does look better without the silly top hat and metal cover...which I have now managed to remove, and quite easily actually  And it certainly benefits from the blue LEDs!!

But whatever D, I can fully understand your firm(?!!) stance on going any further down that rabbit hole, and suggest waiting for anyone else's experience _before giving in lol!  ..._But given the $hundreds' worth sound this GU50 package delivers - for peanuts - it is most certainly a no-brainer for anyone without such a large stash of tubes and willing to go the extra mile....

Had hoped to have the second set of dual GU50/GEC TT21 powers finished today, so I could showcase my own 'Special Edition' Euforia, but connecting them up without the use of any more sockets; adding LEDs and getting away from the usual less-than-aesthetically-pleasing multi look is far trickier than I imagined...but at least I now have the first channel sorted to my satisfaction, rather than _looking_ experimental!! Should have the rest finished tomorrow, with any luck...and going by even just one finished side, I can safely say this sound is unlike anything I've ever heard before from my Euforia. In fact, the differences are very similar to what you describe @teknorob23 re. your AE model! ...(would have loved to hear them side-by-side, but appears it wasn't meant to be alas...). I just wish that price was a tad lower... although you seem happy enough about that tr?

Anyway guys, in Euforia and Elise we now have a wealth of tubes that both can enjoy, in many different combinations that were never envisaged in their early days. And thereby punch in ever higher categories...ENJOY!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Quite right C.J. about all the tubes that have been bought and each new addition brings something special.  Have not ruled these out, can't wait to see what you have done with the led's and the "other" adapter you talked about.


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## connieflyer

I have been thinking along the lines of a few upgrades to the amp itself, along the lines of what was done with the new AE.  Might be worth looking into.


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## teknorob23

hypnos1 said:


> Hi cf...and am so sorry for putting you through the mangle yet again lol! You have indeed endured one progression after another these past years mon ami, and in the process amassed a good few (now pretty well obsolete!) tubes, even though they do sometimes make for interesting new partnerships . And yes, the GU50 does bring with it a couple of downsides for those who need to rely on 3rd party adapters, and play around with separate heater power supplies (but which isn't too difficult for the unititiated!). And yes again, it must be about the most unprepossessing tube out there . But it does look better without the silly top hat and metal cover...which I have now managed to remove, and quite easily actually  And it certainly benefits from the blue LEDs!!
> 
> But whatever D, I can fully understand your firm(?!!) stance on going any further down that rabbit hole, and suggest waiting for anyone else's experience _before giving in lol!  ..._But given the $hundreds' worth sound this GU50 package delivers - for peanuts - it is most certainly a no-brainer for anyone without such a large stash of tubes and willing to go the extra mile....
> 
> ...



CJ you're teasing me with yet another stunning tube combination, so just to be clear with these tubes i would have an AE SE??  mmmmm But i'm really enjoying the quad of KT88's which seem ideally suited to my music taste, but, but, what if?.....  On the price front before i heard the AE i thought it looked punchy based on the listed upgrades, but as i say the performance to my ears at least is far greater than the some of its apparent parts, so much so it feels like one of the best value upgrades ive made. At 2200 without tubes, if i'd come to this as fresh as i did with my old amp last year having been a lifelong solid stater, based on the SQ alone if they'd said £3k i would still  see as good value. Whether i could have afforded is a different matter


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## hypnos1 (Jan 17, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Quite right C.J. about all the tubes that have been bought and each new addition brings something special.  Have not ruled these out, can't wait to see what you have done with the led's and the "other" adapter you talked about.



Well cf, first off I have to apologise for focusing upon a project I know is beyond the reach of anyone not seriously into DIY/tinkering...this last one has taxed even my own meagre skills I'm still trying to master lol! ...(a bit of a pig, in fact!! ). But then, I didn't make things easier for myself by not using sockets for the dualing; wanting something less apparent than usual, and with the added burden of 4x heater cables and 4x LED cables! Especially given the (very) limited space available!!

Anyway, after a good few choice words, today I managed to get everything installed and up and running...and my efforts have been handsomely rewarded (thank the Gods ). In fact the result has far exceeded expectations...ie. I anticipated just that extra dose of low frequency _oomph!_, and wasn't prepared for what the TT21/GU50 power combo per channel actually delivers...another case of 'The whole being more than the sum of the parts'. I thought the more restrained, laid back GEC TT21s would have been held back somewhat by the more energetic GU50s, but on the contrary...there's much more I never even realised either of them possessed lol!   Obviously, their different individual characters prevented any attempt to outperform each other, complementing and _adding_ to overall performance.

The entire sound has taken on a new dimension...*way *beyond anything my setup has produced up until now, and must definitely be a match for anything _much_ more expensive. And so has finally cured me of all thoughts of looking at another amp...for a good long while yet, at least! 

Now a pic or 2 of the culmination of _years_ of struggle (and heartache!)...but now worth every single bit of it ...

ps. Forgot to take a photo of the 'adapter' cradle, so a template for making a wooden one will have to do I'm afraid!






 

pps. Can I (and others!) now rest in peace lol?..._please!!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ
ppps. And no, D...I don't believe _anyone_ has found a $3 tube to come anywhere near this GU50!!...(which begs the question of just how many Roubles must have been spent on the obviously enormous stockpile of Russian military tubes that were "too expensive (to make) to be put on the commercial market" in any great quantity)...



teknorob23 said:


> CJ you're teasing me with yet another stunning tube combination, so just to be clear with these tubes i would have an AE SE??  mmmmm But i'm really enjoying the quad of KT88's which seem ideally suited to my music taste, but, but, what if?.....  On the price front before i heard the AE i thought it looked punchy based on the listed upgrades, but as i say the performance to my ears at least is far greater than the some of its apparent parts, so much so it feels like one of the best value upgrades ive made. At 2200 without tubes, if i'd come to this as fresh as i did with my old amp last year having been a lifelong solid stater, based on the SQ alone if they'd said £3k i would still  see as good value. Whether i could have afforded is a different matter



Hi tr. Glad you like the KT88 quad...(but keep a weather eye out for some cheap(?!!) GEC TT21s lol. You never know, you just might get lucky one day!! ).

Glad also you find the cost of the AE amp to be worth it...those upgrades do indeed appear to raise performance higher than one might at first suspect, and so would certainly deserve serious consideration for someone looking at a new Euforia...(and which does indeed beg the question @connieflyer  - could similar results be obtained by changing caps/wiring/resistors alone? But I do believe it also has an upgraded trafo, which wouldn't be cheap of course! ). However, to any serious DIYers out there, I personally would say - find a pair of reasonably priced GEC TT21s (if possible); add 4x GU50s and replicate my experiment if you possibly can...and spend the saving on a pair of Meze Empyrean headphones lol! ...and never look back!!


----------



## connieflyer

Nicely done, C.J., looks great! Glad you are getting this all just right to your liking.  So when are you going to offer all these additions,adapters, led's in kit form?  Looks like a winner!  The price of $2200 for the SE amp is great, here in the states we only have one distributor and he does not offer tubeless, have to get the whole shooting match for about $3500, at that price I am not interested in it.  I emailed Feliks to see if I can order from them direct without tubes, but I doubt it, when I asked about ordering from them direct they said I would have to go through their distributor, so does not look good.  Oh well, happy with the KT77,KT88 more so than I did with a quad of KT88's.  Think about all the fun you would have if you offered all the additions like you have now,, why you would be rich, and tired I would imagine.  Glad it looks so good, would you offer it with green led's?


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## hypnos1 (Jan 17, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Nicely done, C.J., looks great! Glad you are getting this all just right to your liking.  So when are you going to offer all these additions,adapters, led's in kit form?  Looks like a winner!  The price of $2200 for the SE amp is great, here in the states we only have one distributor and he does not offer tubeless, have to get the whole shooting match for about $3500, at that price I am not interested in it.  I emailed Feliks to see if I can order from them direct without tubes, but I doubt it, when I asked about ordering from them direct they said I would have to go through their distributor, so does not look good.  Oh well, happy with the KT77,KT88 more so than I did with a quad of KT88's.  Think about all the fun you would have if you offered all the additions like you have now,, why you would be rich, and tired I would imagine.  Glad it looks so good, would you offer it with green led's?



Thanks cf...Well, mon ami, were I 10 years younger (and had a stash of GEC TT21s!) I might well have seriously considered your idea of a giant-killer kit for our amps lol ...sadly life has other ideas alas.... But honestly ol' boy, _green_ LEDs?...where did that come from, with the blue looking so gorgeous?!! ...(not thinking of joining the equivalent of our political 'Green Party' are you D?!...good intentions, but unfortunately the real world is not so straightforward IMHO ).

Anyway, after my very pleasant surprise yesterday re. the sextet's performance via the Empyreans I obviously needed to see how it sounds as pre-amp to my Tannoys...and I sit here at the laptop once again hardly believing the sound that surrounds me. Every bit as impressive as what the combo does for cans...if not even more so. Although the dual TT21/GU50 (in parallel) powers don't actually mean lower volume knob setting - (@Johnnysound ), loud passages especially hit with greater dynamism and authority, confirming that multiple tubes do indeed bring this welcome benefit along with possibly others, depending upon the synergy between the different tubes used (the TT21 and GU50 don't clash with each other at all for example).

And this also reflects the reason why F-A chose _two_ drivers rather than using just one double triode - they too found that doubling drives low impedance outputs especially much better...so, good for the 32 Ohm Empyreans _and_ pre-amp out it would appear .

ps. Still can't work out how this multi-combo can deliver even more detail than was present in either of the 2 tubes...the magical nature of these glass wonders of ours constantly amazes/surprises me...how can a 'static' solid state animal ever compare in this respect lol?! ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## teknorob23

connieflyer said:


> Nicely done, C.J., looks great! Glad you are getting this all just right to your liking.  So when are you going to offer all these additions,adapters, led's in kit form?  Looks like a winner!  The price of $2200 for the SE amp is great, here in the states we only have one distributor and he does not offer tubeless, have to get the whole shooting match for about $3500, at that price I am not interested in it.  I emailed Feliks to see if I can order from them direct without tubes, but I doubt it, when I asked about ordering from them direct they said I would have to go through their distributor, so does not look good.  Oh well, happy with the KT77,KT88 more so than I did with a quad of KT88's.  Think about all the fun you would have if you offered all the additions like you have now,, why you would be rich, and tired I would imagine.  Glad it looks so good, would you offer it with green led's?



Hi @connieflyer, wow thats a serious mark up and at that price would have made the AE to rich for me. Here you can buy direct or from the sole UK stockist Audiobarn, the price is the same from both. They didnt have a price for unit without tubes until i asked, but it wasnt a problem to order it. From what Audiobarn have told me the FA pricing model doesnt allow for much of a margin for any retailer selling at the direct price. I'm guessing the import costs to the US must ramp the price up, but it does seem a bit strange that its so high, because the UK/European price does include 20% VAT/ sales tax, which is not applicable elsewhere. It also seems strange that they wont order a naked AE for you and just add their mark up. One can only guess that upscale may have ordered a certain volume of units to get the price as it is. 

Sorry thats a lot of supposition and not a lot facts, but i hope Lukasz is able to accommodate you somehow, although CJ's route to audio nirvana is pretty enticing as always. Sadly, i cant see any GEC TT21's for less than £250 each, which makes the AE with a quad of KT88's look okay for the money.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 17, 2020)

Yo @teknorob23 ...if I myself hadn't struck lucky with 2x (good) used TT21s for about £140 the pair (and 1x NOS at £175) I would never have known the magic I'm now enjoying lol! But when GU50 adapters are finally available, I'm sure anyone prepared to go the 12V heater route will still be able to take their Euforia (or Elise) to another level...and far cheaper than 4x reissue KTs, which the GU50 does indeed surpass - the JAC Music guy was right, much to my astonishment (I didn't believe him at first to be honest!). Not up to the 50/21 combo, but excellent nonetheless .

On reflection, I suppose it wouldn't be impossible for Mrsx to make a double adapter to take one GU50 and a KT tube if there was interest and they were willing...should bring further improvement once again over just the two powers.... And I personally have no worries this time about these particular tubes being doubled, given they don't get the amp's circuit running anywhere near 'normal' operating temperatures, even with the quad power combo and 2x drivers ...BFN


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys...just an interesting reflection on reading Headfonia's review of the AE Euforia.

Firstly, his description of the improvements over the standard amp mirror precisely what I'm now hearing from my dual GU50/GEC TT21 power combo, driven by 2x GU50s....no exaggeration. But in addition, with more hours on my duos' connecting wires, there is a noticeable increase in dynamic range handling, highlighting just how 'compressed' many recordings are in this respect (as opposed to _frequency_ compression - kHz/bit rendering)....ie. those that haven't been 'reduced' in this way have a more impactful range from soft to very loud. And this in addition to even more previously unheard detail from either of the 2 tubes_ individually_..???

I suspect that my own results are no doubt helped by my use of UP-OCC silver and copper wires throughout, not to mention my Naim UnitiCore source via said UP-OCC wire-clad coax cable as opposed to computer and USB. This wire will also be raising my Empyrean's performance a good bit above his own, if he was using stock.

Also, the GU50s and TT21s (as would be the KT tubes) will be _streets_ ahead of the RCA/Chatham 6AS7G powers and stock PsVane drivers he was using. 

And so, as I have no doubt my system could well easily match the reviewer's own findings now, it begs the question just how the AE Euforia might sound _in_ my system, given the above......closer to his amps at 2 to 3 times the price lol?...hmmmm.......(if only I'd had one to demo! ). But then again, it's not guaranteed that my multi-tube combo would synergise with the new circuitry to the same degree!! Ah well, I'm not too worried actually, given the stellar sound I'm now fortunate enough to be coaxing out of my standard Euforia...each new track confirms it's not only a _Special_ Edition, but a _Super_ one. I count myself very lucky indeed...as does my wallet! 

ps. All of the above also confirms the latent _potential_ of the standard Euforia...I for one shan't bother opening mine up for component surgery lol! ...(_perhaps!_ )...CJ


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## Dobrescu George

This photo will be part of my review on Feliks Euforia, but right now it is also the cover art on Audiophile-Heaven's Facebook page. You could probably say I like it. A lot


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## Johnnysound (Jan 18, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> ps. @Johnnysound and anyone interested, I asked xulingmrs to make adapters for the GU50 a few days ago and they agreed. I expect it's taking longer than usual because of the need for extra work in attaching external heater wires, so hopefully they'll be available some time next week. Will keep y'all informed...CJ



Good news ! unfortunately, I have had problems with Mrs. Xuling EL11/6SN7 adaptors, at least three of them (!) just ceased working at different times for no apparent reason (after using them carefully) which indicates (for me) very bad soldering.  I reported this to xulingmrs, and they promised to send me some free of charge...anyway, if they will make GU50 adaptors, I would suggest a message emphasizing the need for better quality control, or (more to the point),  *double soldering *on all internal contacts...including the external wires.


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## Johnnysound (Jan 19, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys...just an interesting reflection on reading Headfonia's review of the AE Euforia.
> 
> Firstly, his description of the improvements over the standard amp mirror precisely what I'm now hearing from my dual GU50/GEC TT21 power combo, driven by 2x GU50s....no exaggeration. But in addition, with more hours on my duos' connecting wires, there is a noticeable increase in dynamic range handling, highlighting just how 'compressed' many recordings are in this respect (as opposed to _frequency_ compression - kHz/bit rendering)....ie. those that haven't been 'reduced' in this way have a more impactful range from soft to very loud. And this in addition to even more previously unheard detail from either of the 2 tubes_ individually_..???
> 
> ...



The AE Euforia look really nice, but the upgrades over the “standard” one (wiring, caps, trafo) look more incremental than substantial (IMHO) in terms of final sound quality.  With all due respect for UP-OCC wiring, (and given the short internal runs) I think that Euforia silver wiring is perfectly up to the task. The new caps might be really good, but so are the Mundorfs. There is a new “low noise” trafo, but the original is also a high quality, “low noise” one.  The mods on the circuit or general config could be relevant, but the advertised mods look like no more than slight “refinements” of the original.  Which makes sense, you do not want to risk changing anything substantial in an already great sounding amp.  Of course, only head to head comparisons would tell...

At last, got a pair of GLKT88s, and (like CF) put them as powers with GLKT77s as drivers.  I must say I am impressed with the heft and build quality of the GLs...very nice looking tubes, and (as CJ said)  the big plates look like American “heavy duty” 6550s...anyway, very nice sounding powers out of the box, with unexpected finesse, nuance, and great, tight, accurate bass.  And yes, driven by the KT77s which are sweet and highly dynamic, this must be one of the best combos I have heard in Euforia.  At least as a preamp, it simply rocks !!


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## hypnos1

Johnnysound said:


> Good news ! unfortunately, I have had problems with Mrs. Xuling EL11/6SN7 adaptors, at least three of them (!) just ceased working at different times for no apparent reason (after using them carefully) which indicates (for me) very bad soldering.  I reported this to xulingmrs, and they promised to send me some free of charge...anyway, if they will make GU50 adaptors, I would suggest a message emphasizing the need for better quality control, or (more to the point),  *double soldering *on all internal contacts...including the external wires.



Hi J.

It looks like you were very unlucky indeed with your particular adapters from Mrsx. Although a few folks have occasionally had problems - that have been replaced, no fuss - most seem very happy with them...especially for their very reasonable (IMHO) cost. And especially also given the hundreds they have made for us here over the years.
But I shall certainly impress upon them the benefits of trying to improve reliability lol!! 



Johnnysound said:


> The AE Euforia look really nice, but the upgrades over the “standard” one (wiring, caps, trafo) look more incremental than substantial (IMHO) in terms of final sound quality.  With all due respect for UP-OCC wiring, (and given the short internal runs) I think that Euforia silver wiring is perfectly up to the task. The new caps might be really good, but so are the Mundorfs. There is a new “low noise” trafo, but the original is also a high quality, “low noise” one.  The mods on the circuit or general config could be relevant, but the advertised mods look like no more than slight “refinements” of the original.  Which makes sense, you do not want to risk changing anything substantial in an already great sounding amp.  Of course, only head to head comparisons would tell...
> 
> At last, got a pair of GLKT88s. and (like CF) put them as powers with GLKT77s as drivers.  I must say I am impressed with the heft and build quality of the GLs...very nice looking tubes, and (as CJ said)  the big plates look like american “heavy duty” 6550s...anyway, very nice sounding powers out of the box, with unexpected finesse, nuance, and great, tight, accurate bass.  And yes, driven by the KT77s which are sweet and highly dynamic, this must be one of the best combos I have heard in Euforia.  At least as a preamp, it simply rocks !!



Yo J...it would seem on paper the AE upgrades may not actually justify the higher cost, but @teknorob23 was certainly impressed with his own unit . And even head to head comparisons could vary from system to system of course! All I know personally is that my own latest multi-combo tube setup is so far ahead of stock that I do actually doubt the extra expense would be worth it _for me_ at least . I don't know whether it's more hours on my duos' connecting wires or further burn-in of my last 2 GU50s, but yesterday - yet again! - I hardly recognised what was coming out of my Euforia. I know I've said similar before, but this time it truly was like listening to a different amp entirely...*everything* is up yet another notch (or 2!), from an already superlative performance - the increased dynamic range handling presumably 'opening up' the FR, thereby allowing much more (micro/macro) detail to come through, along with greater _tonal_ range. (I suspect a major factor could indeed be the GU50s continuing to improve _well_ after 150+ hours...not to mention the NOS GEC TT21 in the mix of course!).

And yes, those GL KT88s do indeed look _and_ sound impressive IMO...and obviously the KT77 synergises very well with them as drivers...@connieflyer certainly loves the combo, and being my deputy chief tester I'll be making him a dual adapter/cradle so as to see whether he duplicates my findings re. the quad powers but with GL 88s, instead of my GEC TT21s, partnering GU50s (driven instead also by his KT77s). This should then confirm if it might be worth asking Mrsx to possibly make a dual adapter for folks ...(all I need now is more hours in the day lol!! )....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. If you like the GLKT88s now, just wait 'til they have at least 100 hrs on them!! ...(But the GU50 is still better lol! )...


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## connieflyer

And C.J. I will certainly take on the new task with pleasure.  Hoping it will allow an upgrade path for those that already have the GLKt88's to experience the Gu50's as well. My thoughts were that it will.  Now if I am wrong of course I will let you all know. Not a fan of making a purchase and hiding the facts just to try not to lose face. When I am wrong, no disgrace in admitting it and moving on. So thank you C.J. will do my level best to ascertain whether this will be still another path we can take the Euforia, turning out to be a very good purchase.


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## teknorob23

Johnnysound said:


> The AE Euforia look really nice, but the upgrades over the “standard” one (wiring, caps, trafo) look more incremental than substantial (IMHO) in terms of final sound quality.  With all due respect for UP-OCC wiring, (and given the short internal runs) I think that Euforia silver wiring is perfectly up to the task. The new caps might be really good, but so are the Mundorfs. There is a new “low noise” trafo, but the original is also a high quality, “low noise” one.  The mods on the circuit or general config could be relevant, but the advertised mods look like no more than slight “refinements” of the original.  Which makes sense, you do not want to risk changing anything substantial in an already great sounding amp.  Of course, only head to head comparisons would tell...
> 
> At last, got a pair of GLKT88s. and (like CF) put them as powers with GLKT77s as drivers.  I must say I am impressed with the heft and build quality of the GLs...very nice looking tubes, and (as CJ said)  the big plates look like american “heavy duty” 6550s...anyway, very nice sounding powers out of the box, with unexpected finesse, nuance, and great, tight, accurate bass.  And yes, driven by the KT77s which are sweet and highly dynamic, this must be one of the best combos I have heard in Euforia.  At least as a preamp, it simply rocks !!



I was expecting to be underwhelmed before
I demo’d it, but all I can say is it’s definitely better than the some of its upgrades. I highly recommend giving it a listen if you can. It was a long time in the development and I fact was delayed by 3 months, so there’s no doubting the work Lukasz and his team have put in to it, and from what I can hear it’s a legitimate upgrade not just a tweak. Quad of kt88s sound stunning, both driving my stellias and my primare amp/pmc speakers.


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## connieflyer

Have seriously considered one, in the past, but the fact I have to go through distributor in the States, and his price is way out of line with the value, many more amps in this price range.  So continuing to experiment with better tube combos, right now Kt GLKT 88's power, GLKT77's drivers use as a pre amp to my Anthem MRX720 I have no complaints. Good luck with yours


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## OctavianH

When companies obtain worldwide distribution chains and strategic deals like Focal partner, innovation or price / value ratio fall from their top priorities. This happened a lot with Intel, Apple and other vendors. Look at Samsung releasing tens of times the same phone with minor tweaks and everyone buys it. This is how commerce and business go.


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## LoryWiv (Jan 19, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi J.
> ... I'll be making him a dual adapter/cradle so as to see whether he duplicates my findings re. the *quad powers but with GL 88s*, instead of my GEC TT21s, partnering GU50s (driven instead also by his KT77s). This should then confirm if it might be worth asking Mrsx to possibly make a dual adapter for folks ...(all I need now is more hours in the day lol!! )....CHEERS!...CJ
> 
> ps. If you like the GLKT88s now, just wait 'til they have at least 100 hrs on them!! ...(But the GU50 is still better lol! )...



Hi @hypnos1, just to assure I am thinking of this the right way, if the Euforia amperage total shouldn't exceed ~ 6.5 A and the KT88 are 1.6 A each = 6.4 A for the quad powers, will any further current needed for the drivers require external heaters?

Also, now about 25 hours into my quad GL KT88's in Elise the more "conventional" way, a pair as drivers and a pair as powers. I am really, really impressed. The bass quantity and control has improved, and treble goes to the edge of extension w/o any fatiguing quality, retaining sweetness and musicality. Mids may be a tad less forward and euphonic then with GL KT77 as drivers but that actually was a bit overwhelmingly "in your face". Soundstage is wide / deep / tall but not excessive and sounds very natural. That said, the best part is the detail retrieval, instrument placement and layering...best I've heard from Elise.

Looking forward to the next 75+ hours!


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## hypnos1 (Jan 19, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @hypnos1, just to assure I am thinking of this the right way, if the Euforia amperage total shouldn't exceed ~ 6.5 A and the KT88 are 1.6 A each = 6.4 A for the quad powers, will any further current needed for the drivers require external heaters?
> 
> Also, now about 25 hours into my quad GL KT88's in Elise the more "conventional" way, a pair as drivers and a pair as powers. I am really, really impressed. The bass quantity and control has improved, and treble goes to the edge of extension w/o any fatiguing quality, retaining sweetness and musicality. Mids may be a tad less forward and euphonic then with GL KT77 as drivers but that actually was a bit overwhelmingly "in your face". Soundstage is wide / deep / tall but not excessive and sounds very natural. That said, the best part is the detail retrieval, instrument placement and layering...best I've heard from Elise.
> 
> Looking forward to the next 75+ hours!



Hi LW...just a quickie before zzzzzzz.

The quad powers in question will be 2x KT88s and 2x GU50s, the latter (12V) having external heating so no problem there lol.

Glad the KT88s as drivers also are now more to your liking...that's just how they performed for me and my own particular system. From what you describe - along with @Johnnysound 's and @connieflyer 's findings - the 77s would appear to be better suited to the likes of the Senn HD800 rather than my more 'mellow' Empyreans...the 88s giving the Mezes a welcome 'shot in the arm' lol!  It will therefore be very interesting indeed to hear what the GU50s bring to_ his _table when partnering KT88s as powers, driven by the 77s...my own suspicion is that they may well bury once and for all some folks' questioning of the 800's bass, along with showcasing other (latent) qualities of the Senns (particularly after hearing what they do for my 650s!). But time will, as always, tell...BFN...


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## Johnnysound (Jan 20, 2020)

teknorob23 said:


> I was expecting to be underwhelmed before
> I demo’d it, but all I can say is it’s definitely better than the some of its upgrades. I highly recommend giving it a listen if you can. It was a long time in the development and I fact was delayed by 3 months, so there’s no doubting the work Lukasz and his team have put in to it, and from what I can hear it’s a legitimate upgrade not just a tweak. Quad of kt88s sound stunning, both driving my stellias and my primare amp/pmc speakers.



Hi, TR, and let me say that I have no doubts that the AE Euforia is a legitimate upgrade and not just a “tweak”... only that *advertised* mods by FA do not look very significant soundwise (for Euforia owners)...save for a hint on a new “very low noise” circuit config that they do not reveal...and this may be the most relevant mod  over the original. Perhaps marketing strategy, who knows...


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## LoryWiv (Jan 20, 2020)

The GL KT 88 quad makes a fine nightlight, or with those center slots perhaps a group of tuxedo clad gentleman:



Looks pretty classy in the daytime too:

 

More than just good looking, at around 30 hours the quad is really starting to shine sonically in Elise as well!


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## connieflyer (Jan 20, 2020)

Good morning Loriwiv, I found a quad of the 88 sounded quite good in my eforia amplifier, but when I went with the GL kt77 was even better, both using the Sennheiser 800 and the he560, but especially nice running it as a preamp to my Anthem MRX 720 receiver in the main system. After you get those broken in you have a few dollars extra try the 77s as drivers looks real nice and sounds real nice!


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## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Good morning Loriwiv, I found a quad of the 88 sounded quite good in my eforia amplifier, but when I went with the GL kt77 was even better, both using the Sennheiser 800 and the he560, but especially nice running it as a preamp to my Anthem MRX 720 receiver in the main system. After you get those broken in you have a few dollars extra try the 77s as drivers looks real nice and sounds real nice!


Thanks @connieflyer, and yes the KT77 look very complimentary driving their big brothers. I'll definitely keep that combination on my radar!


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## hypnos1

Right then guys...a week of the dual GEC TT21/GU50 power combo per channel, driven by 2x GU50s, has highlighted perfectly the merry-go-round that is rolling tubes from a similar family - and others that perform at a high level, once a certain standard is reached in the rest of one's system...ie. they generally do in fact only bring different 'flavours'/characters and _perceived _variations due mainly to the differences in emphasis of certain sections of the frequency range, along with the effects of distortion ('color') - total and intermodulation - depending upon degree.

But _major _differences in performance then require other factors to come into play, and which usually mean massive upgrades to some or all of the rest of one's system, and/or another amp entirely lol! However, such a leap has now come from the aforementioned dualled power tube combo...much more so than from just one tube to another, and has me realising that the progression of tubes I have been fortunate enough to discover until now has, in fact, been only _minor_ in comparison. And this is a realisation that is hitting me harder than I ever imagined...truly a double-edged sword! But reality has a nasty habit of doing this alas .

And so to repeat, it is now as if I'm listening to a totally different amp, not just one with a few improvements/changes here and there. I shall, therefore, most certainly not be looking to try different tubes any more, simply to achieve further _minor_ changes...I have finally learned my lesson lol!  Mind you, the journey has at least had the benefit of providing a larger selection of tubes from which to choose according to personal _taste, _even if not actually _better!!_...which is no bad thing....

Finally, although _original _tubes undoubtedly give superior performance, I'm quite sure that dualling a reissue KT88 (or one's preferred KT) with a GU50 _per power channel_ will bring similar leaps in performance...and at a fraction of the cost of a high-end amp. And if I remember rightly xulingmrs have in fact already made a dual 6SN7/6AS7G adapter, into which both tubes could of course be put, using their own respective adapters. When they get back on line after their New Year hols I shall check the sockets' spacing to make sure those big boy 88s will fit next to a GU50!!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Jan 23, 2020)

Hello CJ, if I remember right when I had the Elise I used four el3n's  in the adapters in the power and two EL3N as drivers and they fit fine and I don't think the KT 88 are much bigger than then an el3n. When I sold the Elise I sold a bunch of tubes with it , I know my bad, and also a pair of adapters so I can't try the two adapters but I would assume the dimensions on the Elise and the Eforia would be similar. I'd have to check but I think I still have one dual adapter.


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## connieflyer

This was my Elise with six EL3N tubes, plenty of room.


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## OctavianH (Jan 23, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, if I remember right when I had the Elise I used four el3n's  in the adapters in the power and two EL3N as drivers and they fit fine and I don't think the KT 88 are much bigger than then an el3n. When I sold the Elise I sold a bunch of tubes with it , I know my bad, and also a pair of adapters so I can't try the two adapters but I would assume the dimensions on the Elise and the Eforia would be similar. I'd have to check but I think I still have one dual adapter.



Here is a picture of an EL3N near KT88:






I found also a double EL3N to 6AS7 adapter and put 2 x KT88 near it:


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> This was my Elise with six EL3N tubes, plenty of room.





OctavianH said:


> Here is a picture of an EL3N near KT88:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks guys. From my own workings cf, it will look much better to have 2 separate adapters with swivel function rather than that straight foursome for EL3Ns lol ...(pretty horrid IMHO!! ). A shame we can't expect anyone to make the shape a bit more interesting though.... But then, believe me, the price would have to be much higher alas! (I'm hoping they did in fact have a double adapter with simply 2x 6SN7/6AS7G sockets, which would be the only practical/viable way of housing a GU50 and KT tube, each in its own adapter...). So we wait and see...but not _too_ long, hopefully!!


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## connieflyer (Jan 23, 2020)

CJ, before tube adapter was actually two separate two tube adapters, not a single 4 Tube adapter.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> CJ, before tube adapter was actually two separate two tube adapters, not a single 4 Tube adapter. The idea of making them swivel is great replacement but my compromise signal contact wires. Had that happen with a tube adapter a couple of years ago



Hmmm again cf...shall also have to check if such a problem has been rectified...I do hope so lol!... CHEERS!


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## connieflyer (Jan 23, 2020)

No problem CJ. As I remember the adapter that I was using that had the contact problem was an older style that used wires to connect the socket to the pin and it had a screw in the bottom that you could loosen and turn the socket just a small amount so that it would actually swivel for a little bit more distance between adapters. But doing that you had to be very careful not to put any pressure on the solder joint on the wires inside. I remember the one loosen the connection but did not break it causing it to be intermittent


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## connieflyer

The adapters that I used on the Elise for theEl3n dual power tubes worked quite well and you can see from my photo there was plenty of spacing


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## Johnnysound (Jan 24, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Good morning Loriwiv, I found a quad of the 88 sounded quite good in my eforia amplifier, but when I went with the GL kt77 was even better, both using the Sennheiser 800 and the he560, but especially nice running it as a preamp to my Anthem MRX 720 receiver in the main system. After you get those broken in you have a few dollars extra try the 77s as drivers looks real nice and sounds real nice!



Absolutely, CF:  KT77s/KT88s is one of the best combos I have heard in Euforia: punchy, revealing, great bass/synergy with the 88s. The OTHER combo that impresses me the most is this one:



With Philips/Valvo/Siemens EL11 (same tube), the ones made by Loewe Opta factory, Berlin.  Later production  ( I understand up to late sixties or so).  Easily identifiable by the three letter code at the bottom (factory code mx... ) I found these NOS tubes probably the best sounding of the EL11 family: _deadly_ quiet, open, airy,  transparent, spacious, extended, yet with a refined,  subtly “classic” touch that blends perfectly, and certainly improves the “modern” sound of the KT88s.   Perhaps not as sharp or punchy as with the KT77s., but this combo bass is one of the most accurate, precisely defined.         A real joy (musically speaking) that is staying there...for the time being.  I have too many EL11s, if not, I would _seriously_ consider getting another back up pair...


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## connieflyer (Jan 24, 2020)

I will have to try them.  I have the Valvo and a pair of mesh plate .


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## connieflyer

Taking Johnnysound's advice and trying the Valvo, date code MX1 as drivers, they are different and sound great. bass does seem to be a little more pronounced , but seems to have a slight edge to the treble and bass is just a tiny bit boomy, resolution is good though. Seems a little bit stronger(?) overall. Going to finish off some more coffee and switch to the mesh plates and see what those bring to the table.  Nice to have so many tubes to try without having to buy more!  Finally a reason to have a large stash! These Valvo EL11 I bought as NOS last year, and only used them about fifty hours, before the tube of the day came out and I switched to a new driver, so never really had that much time with them.  They now have about two hundred hours on them and have matured.


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## connieflyer

Okay Johnnysound, the El 11's did add a new flavor to the amp, quite like it.  Using the Mesh plate El11 now, and these smooth out all of the slight misgivings I had with the stock Valvo EL11's. Bass is solid and and treble is extended.  Bass is hard hitting and clear. Mid's with orchestrations are to die for.  I got these from CJ awhile back and and used them until, you guessed it the flavor of the day. I have to try these out as pre amp outputs, and see how they do.  Going to stay here for awhile to be sure.  Wow.


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## Johnnysound (Jan 25, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Okay Johnnysound, the El 11's did add a new flavor to the amp, quite like it.  Using the Mesh plate El11 now, and these smooth out all of the slight misgivings I had with the stock Valvo EL11's. Bass is solid and and treble is extended.  Bass is hard hitting and clear. Mid's with orchestrations are to die for.  I got these from CJ awhile back and and used them until, you guessed it the flavor of the day. I have to try these out as pre amp outputs, and see how they do.  Going to stay here for awhile to be sure.  Wow.



Hi Cf....And where in this world (apart from CJ) can I find a pair of these mega-rare, unobtanium Valvo mesh plates ?? (Lol) my comment about the EL11s/KT88s was made almost entirely with Euforia as a preamp driving my *tube *PA...and this explains our slightly different impressions.  My tube amp (currently with KT88s) is a touch warm, and sounds best with a revealing, lively preamp. The extension/refinement  of the EL11s combined with the dynamics/bass of the KT88s in Euforia was truly to die for,  with “tactile”, almost “physical”, _really_  tight, deep bass plus equally great mids &highs...no edges anywhere.   The KT77s are also killer drivers in preamp duties (they rock !)....but I would give the _slightest_  edge to the EL11s...in my system !


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## hypnos1

Hi @connieflyer and @Johnnysound . Interesting to hear your preference for the EL11 as driver to the KT88...in my own system the quad 88s usurped my previous love child mesh plates by a fair margin. Which just goes to show how different setups can bring different results lol ...(as if we didn't already know! ). And so it will be very interesting indeed to see how different systems, especially headphones respond to the GU50. Hopefully they will welcome the Russian upstart in a similar way to mine...but time will tell!

Anyway folks, talking of this latest tube I've _finally_ got my video together and hope it's a little interesting/helpful at least. Sorry it ended up over 20 mins long...but y'all know me by now lol!!  So I'll leave you to endure as much as you can...me, I'm off to my bed....g'night all...CJ


----------



## walakalulu

Anyone compared the Euphoria to the Manley Absolute regards SQ?


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @connieflyer and @Johnnysound . Interesting to hear your preference for the EL11 as driver to the KT88...in my own system the quad 88s usurped my previous love child mesh plates by a fair margin. Which just goes to show how different setups can bring different results lol ...(as if we didn't already know! ). And so it will be very interesting indeed to see how different systems, especially headphones respond to the GU50. Hopefully they will welcome the Russian upstart in a similar way to mine...but time will tell!
> 
> Anyway folks, talking of this latest tube I've _finally_ got my video together and hope it's a little interesting/helpful at least. Sorry it ended up over 20 mins long...but y'all know me by now lol!!  So I'll leave you to endure as much as you can...me, I'm off to my bed....g'night all...CJ




Hi H1. Just wanted to say thanks for your time and effort putting together the above very helpful video which even an old ludite like me should be able to follow. Your a star.


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## connieflyer

Well done C.J. looks like you are going to be a You Tube star yet!  Your production could use some soothing music in the background and a cup of coffee (with optional shot of scotch) to set a nice relaxed setup, and with the optional bottle of scotch on the bench, just out of sight, if things go wrong, no problem, just down your cup of coffee, and refill from the optional bottle of spirits.  Do this several times, until either you understand where you made the mistake, or no longer care that it does not work!  Good one my friend!!!!


----------



## malenak

Do anyone have the Empyreans with Euforia? How do they work together?


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## connieflyer

CJ, what do you think of this combo?


----------



## hypnos1

H


connieflyer said:


> CJ, what do you think of this combo?



Hi cf...I would imagine that could sound quite special...*BUT*, of course, not possible in our amps without using a separate heater power supply for at least some of them lol!! ...(as you know, way over the safe limit for current draw alas ). However, with a GU50 (+ separate PS) combined with a KT tube as powers, all would be well using the EL11s as drivers... (Doubt the ELs would bring the same magic to the table as GU50 drivers though, but perhaps might just do so according to system...so will be an interesting experiment for you when I finish your own multi-GU50/KT setup lol ).

ps. With the KTs and GU50s running the amp so cool, there's no problem whatsoever re. heat issues using these _six_ tubes, unlike with 'conventional' tubes. The amp's outer case and trafo housing get slightly warmer (via tube radiated heat) but still only minimal. And _tube_ temperature itself is of no real consequence as it's how they have the internal resistors and caps running (heatwise) that is all important, and as with the EL pentodes (triode strapped) the KTs and GU50s run our amps _much_ cooler.


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## connieflyer

It would be over the limit, but doable with a separate transformer for the power tubes.  Might be something to pursue.  Will decide after I hear GU50's.  Might have to order another pair of GU50's to make it look right! Then it would be a compare of your system results with mine.  Funny how the sum of all the associated equipment can change what we hear.  Any special place I should order a pair of Gu50's, or do you have enough spares?


----------



## hypnos1

malenak said:


> Do anyone have the Empyreans with Euforia? How do they work together?



Hi malenak.

I personally was in love with the Beyer T1s (v1) driven by Euforia...until I got my Empys! They do indeed match each other extremely well indeed...which isn't too surprising really, given Meze collaborated with Feliks-Audio as part of their development strategy. And I found even further improvement from my DIY silver + copper upgraded cable. The combo also responds well to upgrades in the rest of one's system, along with tubes...CJ


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> It would be over the limit, but doable with a separate transformer for the power tubes.  Might be something to pursue.  Will decide after I hear GU50's.  Might have to order another pair of GU50's to make it look right! Then it would be a compare of your system results with mine.  Funny how the sum of all the associated equipment can change what we hear.  Any special place I should order a pair of Gu50's, or do you have enough spares?



Hi cf...I got in enough spares while they're so dirt cheap, and will include a pair + adapters for driver use along with those in the power duo adapter/cradle...then you will indeed be able to compare with my own results (using your reissue KTs as opposed to my GEC TT21s of course! ...CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds great looking forward to it.  Am going to try the EL 88 power and EL12 SPEZ next to see what that will bring


----------



## Scutey

hypnos1 said:


> Hi @connieflyer and @Johnnysound . Interesting to hear your preference for the EL11 as driver to the KT88...in my own system the quad 88s usurped my previous love child mesh plates by a fair margin. Which just goes to show how different setups can bring different results lol ...(as if we didn't already know! ). And so it will be very interesting indeed to see how different systems, especially headphones respond to the GU50. Hopefully they will welcome the Russian upstart in a similar way to mine...but time will tell!
> 
> Anyway folks, talking of this latest tube I've _finally_ got my video together and hope it's a little interesting/helpful at least. Sorry it ended up over 20 mins long...but y'all know me by now lol!!  So I'll leave you to endure as much as you can...me, I'm off to my bed....g'night all...CJ



Just watched you're excellent video CJ, easy to follow, many thanks for your efforts .


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well done C.J. looks like you are going to be a You Tube star yet!  Your production could use some soothing music in the background and a cup of coffee (with optional shot of scotch) to set a nice relaxed setup, and with the optional bottle of scotch on the bench, just out of sight, if things go wrong, no problem, just down your cup of coffee, and refill from the optional bottle of spirits.  Do this several times, until either you understand where you made the mistake, or no longer care that it does not work!  Good one my friend!!!!



Aha cf...funny you should mention music/coffee/scotch. Had thought about all of those things beforehand (except a nice glass of wine instead of the scotch - sorry! ), along with some fancy video editing, but was too eager to get it uploaded to youtube lol . Would also have had me looking a bit less like a startled rabbit in auto headlamps!!! ...(so no danger of my becoming a youtube star just yet methinks! ). Still, I'm glad it was appreciated by all you guys...thanks all...



Scutey said:


> Just watched you're excellent video CJ, easy to follow, many thanks for your efforts .



Thanks S...just hope you didn't fall asleep half way through lol! 

And now folks...*AN AMENDMENT TO THE VIDEO*....re. connecting the 12V power supply's *DC* *negative* wire to a _*mains Earthing point*_. In it I showed connecting a wire to the Earth of the 3 pin mains input plug to the power block..._*not so good after all*_, for some strange reason. I found it FAR better going to another mains Earth point - socket or plug - or even the metal feet of my own Euforia, or the *outer* part (negative) of the _*RCA*_ *pre-amp *outs at the back of the amp.

I also recommend not using the plug in connector extension for enabling wire connections, if included with the 12V power supply. It's fine for just a couple of thin wires, but as I suggest using *four* GU50s so as to enjoy the KT/GU50 power tube duo per channel, plus with possible LED wires, then you will need connectors with larger inputs...like the simple (cheap) ones I also showed. Simply cut off the power block's DC end connector and strip the 2 wires for connecting to the adapters' heater wires, again as mentioned on the video.

Hopefully these are measures that most folks can handle without too much problem...or get a handyman friend to do the honours lol!  Any queries just let me know...CJ


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## chrisdrop

Came across this today; GU-50 amp pics: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...et=pcb.10156502239606333&type=3&theater&ifg=1


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## hypnos1

chrisdrop said:


> Came across this today; GU-50 amp pics: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...et=pcb.10156502239606333&type=3&theater&ifg=1



Hi chrisdrop...there seem to be a good few amps out there using the GU50....here's just a few of them lol ...WOW!


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## DecentLevi (Jan 28, 2020)

Oddly, although both of my EL12 Spez are sounding fantastic and balanced L/R as ever, one of them is only about one-third as bright and as hot as the other. Is that perfectly OK up to a certain point until it gets dark and cold enough? Otherwise I better be on the safe side and order another pair of EL12 Spez. Although not specifically for use with the Euforia, LOL... Is there anyone who has experience with EL12 Spez of the *Tesla* brand as opposed to Telefunken? Thanks


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## connieflyer

Was in touch with Lukasz, and ask him about the 2A3 amp progress, and he replied back to me, I asked him if alright to share and he replied it was okay,  "Yes this big project is still open. We’re going to take extra time with all other priorities now. But we learnt a few good tricks, also how to make an excellent electrostatic amp and surely will hear back about it soon.

Cheers
Lukasz " so it looks like they have discovered some new ways with the electrostatic amp circuit.  Interesting.


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## hypnos1 (Jan 29, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Was in touch with Lukasz, and ask him about the 2A3 amp progress, and he replied back to me, I asked him if alright to share and he replied it was okay,  "Yes this big project is still open. We’re going to take extra time with all other priorities now. But we learnt a few good tricks, also how to make an excellent electrostatic amp and surely will hear back about it soon.
> 
> Cheers
> Lukasz " so it looks like they have discovered some new ways with the electrostatic amp circuit.  Interesting.



Thanks for the info cf. Methinks it would be an amp _way_ out of my price league I'm afraid ...but it sure will be interesting to see the animal when it finally sees the light of day (which would appear to be a good long way off yet alas!). And an _animal_ it will undoubtedly be lol! 

As for myself, with _lots_ of hours now on my GU50/GEC TT21 duo per power channel, driven by 2x GU50s, each new (old!) piece I go back to confirms this is now as if I have a completely new amp...the difference is that great - much more so than I could ever have anticipated or hoped for. And the fact this is for minimal expenditure (barring the TT21s of course!) confounds me even more.

Fortunately, as improvements are right across the board, all genres respond equally well (but can only guess the same would be true for heavy metal, which isn't my cup of tea I'm afraid). And most noticeable has been complex music that has been well recorded, whether modern/soft rock/electronic or full symphony orchestra...detail retrieval; separation/placement; stage; dynamics are unlike anything I've heard until now.
Deep, solid bass; gorgeous mids and the sweetest, most delicate and detailed treble are all handled with perfect balance...none dominating the overall performance - simply exquiste and effortless. This smooth, masterly control is also evident in the transition from soft to (very) loud...and is particularly impressive in fact (something I never fully appreciated before in years of close scrutiny/analysing, good though previous tube combos in Euforia have performed in this regard as well as others lol ).

I could go on with what else my latest combo is delivering, but I think y'all have got a good idea by now...ie. _no new amp for me lol!!_ ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Forgot to mention something that is more like a high end amp feature, ie all these qualities are evident at low volume levels, not just at higher ones...


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## Yoram Diamand

Hi, my Euforia is in the mail. The idea was to let the T1.2 shine. I chose the stock tubes gold, and I noticed the 6N13S (NOS) are not that expensive compared to the PsVane CV-181 Mk2.  Woo does not sell the rather costly Tung Sol 5998 anymore. I am not that much of a tube roller anyway. In poorer days maybe a 6sn7 from Tung Sol? In China they sell the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 for 158 dollar matched pair. It is not for free but they are famous. If I would like to upgrade from the T1.2 people say the Focal Utopia is the way to go. Not for free either. Much safer choice than planars. Sennheiser HD800S I liked on a Sennheiser amp. The OTL is able, I understood. The planar of choice for me might be the Hifiman Arya, since I am not very rich. But in reviews, it is said, it is not recommended with the Euforia. Would you agree? Meze planars, some say they are lovely with the Euforia, others say maybe better an amp with some more watts. Woo WA5? Too expensive. Now I use the Ayre QB-9 24/96 and I will upgrade to the DSD QB-9. I have a Schiit Gumby too. The T1 headphones better be good, now they get this lovely amp. Best wishes Yoram


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## barontan2418

Started the GU50 journey, thanks H1.
Looking forward to dual power adapters becoming available hopefully mid Feb.


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## teknorob23

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, my Euforia is in the mail. The idea was to let the T1.2 shine. I chose the stock tubes gold, and I noticed the 6N13S (NOS) are not that expensive compared to the PsVane CV-181 Mk2.  Woo does not sell the rather costly Tung Sol 5998 anymore. I am not that much of a tube roller anyway. In poorer days maybe a 6sn7 from Tung Sol? In China they sell the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 for 158 dollar matched pair. It is not for free but they are famous. If I would like to upgrade from the T1.2 people say the Focal Utopia is the way to go. Not for free either. Much safer choice than planars. Sennheiser HD800S I liked on a Sennheiser amp. The OTL is able, I understood. The planar of choice for me might be the Hifiman Arya, since I am not very rich. But in reviews, it is said, it is not recommended with the Euforia. Would you agree? Meze planars, some say they are lovely with the Euforia, others say maybe better an amp with some more watts. Woo WA5? Too expensive. Now I use the Ayre QB-9 24/96 and I will upgrade to the DSD QB-9. I have a Schiit Gumby too. The T1 headphones better be good, now they get this lovely amp. Best wishes Yoram



congrats on the euforia and your in the right place to get the most out of it. I’ve run both utopia and now stellias from it. Both sound amazing and the utopia are in similar vein to the t1’s but on a totally different level as you’d hope for the money. They are without doubt the most detailed headphones
I’ve ever heard and they’ll dig things out of your music that you’ll not hear with anything else.. for better or worse. They are fast and super dynamic and the euforia bolsters their very few weak spots, with some extra body weight and texturing especially in the mids and bass, they also temper the sometimes borderline treble but with no real loss of clarity. For me though they’re just a bit too much of a good thing and can get a little
Exhausting for longer (2hrs+) listening sessions. And they’re brutal resolution can tear apart poorer source material. In summary they are the best headphone I’ve heard but I’d only keep them if I could afford another pair or Totl headphones that are easier to live with. Like owning a race car you need something else when it’s not sunday. That said at the risk of over stretching the analogy some people like to drive a Ferrari to the shops so I can’t speak for everyone’s taste just mine.  

the stellias on the ofher hand give you a large proportion of the utopias good bits, not quite the last nth of detail, but they the pace and more detail then most other HPs if that’s your thing. They also have better slightly bigger bass, going deep and retaining a more or less neutral presentation. They are a little forward but this makes the mids in my book outstanding and overall I can listen to them all day (lighter on the head too). For me they’re the perfect match with the euforia. The latter brings a greater depth and some tubey 3d max headroom without losing any of the good stuff and never overly coloured just slight harmonic improvement like a nigh end turntable.  I should caveat that I listen mainly to complicated electronica and techno, some jazz, a little classical and 90s alt rock, but i look for accuracy but  energy but in as an organic analogue presentation possible. And this pairing provide me with that, supported by a great dac and other components. 

All of this said i wouldn’t discount planners with the euforia. It’s not like other otl’s!!  

@hypnos1 is the man to give you the full lowdown, but the empyreans are fantastic match for the euforia, the two compliment each other perfectly and are a must listen if you’re considering an open back. They would be my choice in a heartbeat if I had to choose against the utopia. 

I guess my advice in matching the euforia with HPs, would be to ignore preconceptions and try everything you can, ive not heard a headphone sound bad when hooked up to it. 

congrats again


----------



## Yoram Diamand

teknorob23 said:


> congrats on the euforia and your in the right place to get the most out of it. I’ve run both utopia and now stellias from it. Both sound amazing and the utopia are in similar vein to the t1’s but on a totally different level as you’d hope for the money. They are without doubt the most detailed headphones
> I’ve ever heard and they’ll dig things out of your music that you’ll not hear with anything else.. for better or worse. They are fast and super dynamic and the euforia bolsters their very few weak spots, with some extra body weight and texturing especially in the mids and bass, they also temper the sometimes borderline treble but with no real loss of clarity. For me though they’re just a bit too much of a good thing and can get a little
> Exhausting for longer (2hrs+) listening sessions. And they’re brutal resolution can tear apart poorer source material. In summary they are the best headphone I’ve heard but I’d only keep them if I could afford another pair or Totl headphones that are easier to live with. Like owning a race car you need something else when it’s not sunday. That said at the risk of over stretching the analogy some people like to drive a Ferrari to the shops so I can’t speak for everyone’s taste just mine.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I will give the Hifiman Arya a listen too. I know a headphone shop with the Euforia and all nice headphones. They won't mind me spending some time. Best wishes Y


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## teknorob23

Yoram Diamand said:


> Thank you. I will give the Hifiman Arya a listen too. I know a headphone shop with the Euforia and all nice headphones. They won't mind me spending some time. Best wishes Y



I haven’t heard the ayra so it’ll interesting to hear how you find them


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## LoryWiv (Feb 1, 2020)

Although my OTL is Feliks-Audio Elise not Euforia, I am VERY happy with it's pairing into ZMF Auteur 300 ohm bio-cellulose driver. It's cost is just a bit higher than Arya and certainly much less than Stellia. As @teknorob23 said, many great optrions for headphones that shine with this amp. Good luck!


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## DecentLevi (Feb 1, 2020)

Hey has anybody over here latched onto the idea I hinted at a few weeks ago to try Quad GU50 as powers? From my deep experience with 4-6x externally heated powers on the Euforia, I have a hunch these should perform exemplary. More power tubes on the Euforia for me has never failed to only heighten the experience on all levels... soundstage, dynamics, realism, detail, you name it. At least 4 if not 6x. The only minor drawback I have found is that (maybe) there is a minor sense of it sounding slightly less 'front row' if that means anything, and probably was only a result of the conductors in my Chinese made multi-adapter. But with a fine quality multi-adapter you should probably have some fine results! And at only 0.8 AH per tube, I would recon most power supplies would be able to handle the current demand easily.

This one (if done) would be all for you guys however, as I for one am progressing onto entirely different amps - SET OT (single ended triode output transformer) amps, the opposite of OTL which I now have a preference for, conformed by extensive testing sessions on quite a few such OT vs. OTL amps


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## Yoram Diamand

LoryWiv said:


> Although my OTL is Feliks-Audio Elise not Euforia, I am VERY happy with it's pairing into ZMF Auteur 300 ohm bio-cellulose driver. It's cost is just a bit higher than Arya and certainly much less than Stellia. As @teknorob23 said, many great optrions for headphones that shine with this amp. Good luck!


Hi I have been reading and it said, the ZMF Auteur is a lovely match with the Euforia. But you cannot buy it new in Holland, where I live, and second hand for 2000 euro. Which is quite costly for second hand. I will try the Arya and I have not the spare 2000 euro now. Thanks though. Kind regards Yoram


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## Yoram Diamand

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I have been reading and it said, the ZMF Auteur is a lovely match with the Euforia. But you cannot buy it new in Holland, where I live, and second hand for 2000 euro. Which is quite costly for second hand. I will try the Arya and I have not the spare 2000 euro now. Thanks though. Kind regards Yoram


https://headphonecompany.com/shop/?filter_010-marke=zmf I found a place in Germany. It is still for sale.


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## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, my Euforia is in the mail. The idea was to let the T1.2 shine. I chose the stock tubes gold, and I noticed the 6N13S (NOS) are not that expensive compared to the PsVane CV-181 Mk2.  Woo does not sell the rather costly Tung Sol 5998 anymore. I am not that much of a tube roller anyway. In poorer days maybe a 6sn7 from Tung Sol? In China they sell the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 for 158 dollar matched pair. It is not for free but they are famous. If I would like to upgrade from the T1.2 people say the Focal Utopia is the way to go. Not for free either. Much safer choice than planars. Sennheiser HD800S I liked on a Sennheiser amp. The OTL is able, I understood. The planar of choice for me might be the Hifiman Arya, since I am not very rich. But in reviews, it is said, it is not recommended with the Euforia. Would you agree? Meze planars, some say they are lovely with the Euforia, others say maybe better an amp with some more watts. Woo WA5? Too expensive. Now I use the Ayre QB-9 24/96 and I will upgrade to the DSD QB-9. I have a Schiit Gumby too. The T1 headphones better be good, now they get this lovely amp. Best wishes Yoram



Hi Yoram...and belated congrats on joining the Euforia club - good choice!

Re. headphones, all I can say is that much as I loved my T1s (v1) with DIY upgraded UP-OCC silver and copper-wired cable, the Empyreans are - as they should be at the price lol! - in another league entirely. Being a 'Hybrid Array' design, their low (32 Ohm) impedance is no problem at all being driven by Euforia, even though needing the vol knob turned up a fair bit more than with high-Ohm dynamics. And F-A did in fact go out of their way to make sure Elise and Euforia would be able to drive low-impedance cans better than most other OTL amps.

I would say however that these Mezes might just seem a little too 'polite'/mellow with gear that is well on the warm/dark side, especially with the stock cable. But this would be much modified with an upgraded cable, preferably one using really good silver (preferably OCC) and OCC copper, as is my own. Otherwise, a DAC such as a Schiit, which generally are on the brighter side than my Chord Hugo2 for example, would probably give that extra bit of 'bite'.

But as always, you really do need to see how different cans perform _in your own system_ if at all possible - especially when talking big $$$$$!!

Whatever, GOOD LUCK in your choice...CJ


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## hypnos1 (Feb 2, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Started the GU50 journey, thanks H1.
> Looking forward to dual power adapters becoming available hopefully mid Feb.



Lookin' good bt. And remember the GU50s won't be anywhere near true potential until at least 40 hrs lol ...needing much longer in fact for best performance (and vocal positioning will probably move back and forward in the meantime, if mine are anything to go by!). But hope you're liking them even at this early stage...

And as the UK test pilot, you should be able to trial the 50s as drivers to them also quite soon...another pair of sockets hopefully arriving in a day or 2 ...(but USA pilot @connieflyer will probably beat you to it re. the GU50/KT88 power combo per channel...c'mon Mrsx!! ).

Something I meant to tell you and other folks re. the NOS GU50s - *NOTE...*Their pins have a grey coating, presumably as anti-corrosion, and may possibly impede best signal transfer. I personally used fine emery paper to get those pins looking more* shiny*, something I always do with any tube in fact, and so recommend y'all do the same... .

ps. Where did you attach the Earthing wire by the way?...hopefully you're totally hum-free lol...CJ


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Lookin' good bt. And remember the GU50s won't be anywhere near true potential until at least 40 hrs lol ...needing much longer in fact for best performance (and vocal positioning will probably move back and forward in the meantime, if mine are anything to go by!). But hope you're liking them even at this early stage...
> 
> And as the UK test pilot, you should be able to trial the 50s as drivers to them also quite soon...another pair of sockets hopefully arriving in a day or 2 ...(but USA pilot @connieflyer will probably beat you to it re. the GU50/KT88 power combo per channel...c'mon Mrsx!! ).
> 
> ...



Good tip on the pins. I did notice the covering and gave them a touch up but will give them further attention. Don't seem to need the earth wire as things are pretty silence without, maybe this will change when 6 tubes are in place?. Both my KT88's and GU50's need burn in so not making any comments on sound just yet. PM me re second set of adaptors OK.


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## Lucky87

Hey guys I officially gave up on the KT88 Quad setup. I’ve let the tubes burn in now for at least 200 hours plus the 70 from Upscale Audio and I am not sure what the terminology of what I am hearing but its like a echo effect kind of like someone trying to talk into a fan. So I pulled the front driver tubes and put back in the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” tubes and kept the Gold Lion KT88‘s for the Power Tube. And so far I am loving this combo so far pretty much the stock sound with more deeper sound stage and impact. I was only gettin this effect from my headphones but when I used the Euforia as a preamp for my Yamaha with the KT88 QUAD setup it was great.
Technics SL1200G > Manley Chinook SE > Euforia preamp/volume > Yamaha AS3000 (Main Direct Amp only) > Dynaudio 40’s = best so far from my setup.


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## DecentLevi (Feb 2, 2020)

Hey guys for anybody who doesn't have top power isolation or regenerator for their Euforia system, here is something interesting to try. It's called an RCA Tuning Stick and seems to work by absorbing the  high frequencies of your component via an open RCA slot. I'm not officially endorsing this nor have tried it, just a tweak you may be interested in.
https://store.jaguaraudiodesign.com/akiko-audio-rca-and-xlr-tuning-stick-mkiii/


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## LoryWiv (Feb 3, 2020)

Lucky87 said:


> Hey guys I officially gave up on the KT88 Quad setup. I’ve let the tubes burn in now for at least 200 hours plus the 70 from Upscale Audio and I am not sure what the terminology of what I am hearing but its like a echo effect kind of like someone trying to talk into a fan. So I pulled the front driver tubes and put back in the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” tubes and kept the Gold Lion KT88‘s for the Power Tube. And so far I am loving this combo so far pretty much the stock sound with more deeper sound stage and impact. I was only gettin this effect from my headphones but when I used the Euforia as a preamp for my Yamaha with the KT88 QUAD setup it was great.
> Technics SL1200G > Manley Chinook SE > Euforia preamp/volume > Yamaha AS3000 (Main Direct Amp only) > Dynaudio 40’s = best so far from my setup.


Interesting report, @Lucky87, I have settled in with my Genalex Gold Lion KT88 Quad on Elise, approaching 100 hours, and don't experience anything untoward such as that. In fact. detail retrieval, clarity without any veil or noise, air / instrument separation and excellent balance across the frequencies are evident, with just enough warmth to add euphony / musicality. I haven't tried the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 "Gold" but have heard good things about them. Glad you've find a combination you love!

Now back to some music to ease the pain of our 'niners 4th quarter...


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## hypnos1

Lucky87 said:


> Hey guys I officially gave up on the KT88 Quad setup. I’ve let the tubes burn in now for at least 200 hours plus the 70 from Upscale Audio and I am not sure what the terminology of what I am hearing but its like a echo effect kind of like someone trying to talk into a fan. So I pulled the front driver tubes and put back in the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” tubes and kept the Gold Lion KT88‘s for the Power Tube. And so far I am loving this combo so far pretty much the stock sound with more deeper sound stage and impact. I was only gettin this effect from my headphones but when I used the Euforia as a preamp for my Yamaha with the KT88 QUAD setup it was great.
> Technics SL1200G > Manley Chinook SE > Euforia preamp/volume > Yamaha AS3000 (Main Direct Amp only) > Dynaudio 40’s = best so far from my setup.



Hi L87.

That is indeed rather strange...no such anomaly when I ran quad KT88s either. You don't have cross-feed engaged at all?...if you have that function that is. And more so that it's absent on your pre-amp out.... But hey, with the vast selection of tubes our amps can choose from, there'll be one to suit pretty well all systems/tastes lol!  And it's this versatility that I like over SS amps especially, or even SET tube amps that have an output transformer, and with less tube rolling option (even if with tube rectification) .
But glad you've found the drivers to suit your own situation...CHEERS!


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## barontan2418 (Feb 3, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Good tip on the pins. I did notice the covering and gave them a touch up but will give them further attention. Don't seem to need the earth wire as things are pretty silence without, maybe this will change when 6 tubes are in place?. Both my KT88's and GU50's need burn in so not making any comments on sound just yet. PM me re second set of adaptors OK.



As you can see H1 I've changed over GU50's to driving position and that was when the loud buzzing commenced. Have temporarily connected Neg to Earth of 12v supply which has brought with it complete silence. I know you have recently suggested this isn't the best solution so will look to change this later.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> As you can see H1 I've changed over GU50's to driving position and that was when the loud buzzing commenced. Have temporarily connected Neg to Earth of 12v supply which has brought with it complete silence. I know you have recently suggested this isn't the best solution so will look to change this later.



Hi bt.

Yes, the grounding issue noise is indeed worse with the external 12V PS feeding drivers as opposed to powers. But well done for managing to kill it lol! 

And by "Neg to Earth of the 12V supply", do you mean _*both*_ at the _*mains*_ end? Or my suggestion to attach a wire from the _*12V DC out *_to either mains Earth or the outer (neg) part of the amp's RCA pre-amp out? Would be intrigued to know.... If the former, although not an electrician, I would think the latter is safer lol?

And actually, using the GU50s as drivers will in fact be good preparation for when you can have the GU50/KT88 duo per power channel...I personally found the 50s to be the perfect drivers for said duo powers ...HAPPY TESTING!...CJ


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## DecentLevi

Interestingly it would seem there already has been plans over here to try dual GU50's per channel as powers, unless I read wrong? You guys must have beat me to the idea. I was a little confused because I didn't see any photos of it yet and haven't made out how adapters would be made... if you folks truly are going that route you may (possibly) as well make it 6x powers, given how cheap they are but that's just an idea, not at all something I endorse.

RE my above post on the RCA Tuning Stick, that's not an advertisement (even if it may look like one, LOL). And given its' description which would to me seem like an earthling effect, I would wonder if it (may) even help to reduce hum. Well, just hold on for me to try it and I'll let you guys know after I do, at some point.


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## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Interestingly it would seem there already has been plans over here to try dual GU50's per channel as powers, unless I read wrong? You guys must have beat me to the idea. I was a little confused because I didn't see any photos of it yet and haven't made out how adapters would be made... if you folks truly are going that route you may (possibly) as well make it 6x powers, given how cheap they are but that's just an idea, not at all something I endorse.
> 
> RE my above post on the RCA Tuning Stick, that's not an advertisement (even if it may look like one, LOL). And given its' description which would to me seem like an earthling effect, I would wonder if it (may) even help to reduce hum. Well, just hold on for me to try it and I'll let you guys know after I do, at some point.



Hi DL.

Have been enjoying a dual power combo per channel for weeks now...but partnering a GU50 with (in my case) a GEC TT21 version of the KT88 (given many folks have now gone for KT tubes!). And it turns out the two perform together incredibly well..." the whole being better than the sum of the parts" lol! . And are in fact similar enough to not create any kind of anomaly whatsoever. I posted a pic of my setup a while ago but will show again here :



I made a cradle for my combo - angled for aesthetic reasons, but folks will be able to use the dual 6SN7 already available (hopefully, when xulingmrs get back online after Chinese New Year hols), when GU50 adapters should also be available. And then simply dual with their adapted KT tube of choice (given the surprising results from my partnering TT21, I suspect therefore the Russian GL KT88 could well be almost as good...but taking into account reissue tubes are never likely to match the originals alas ).

And driven by GU50s also, this combo has taken my own setup into entirely new territory...it is now, in fact, a totally different amp .

ps. The blue glow is from LEDs I put inside the new bases!


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## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt.
> 
> Yes, the grounding issue noise is indeed worse with the external 12V PS feeding drivers as opposed to powers. But well done for managing to kill it lol!
> 
> ...



Re your Earthing question H1, its connected as per your video at present. Changing GU50's to the driver position produced what I can only call a seismic improvement. Can only guess at what the end result (duo powers x 50's as drivers) will be like even as you say with reissue KT88's. And I'm yet to try this set-up on Euforia.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 4, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Re your Earthing question H1, its connected as per your video at present. Changing GU50's to the driver position produced what I can only call a seismic improvement. Can only guess at what the end result (duo powers x 50's as drivers) will be like even as you say with reissue KT88's. And I'm yet to try this set-up on Euforia.




Well bt, all I can say is that if your Earthing connection works noise-free there..._keep it there lol!_ ...(in my own system there was still slight hum).

And yes, those GU50s as drivers are pretty darned good for a $3 to $4 tube, no?!  In fact, I personally found them driving 2x as powers also surpassed 2x GL KT88s as powers!! But when they're _combined_ in the power role, well..._just keep guessing lol ..._(and I'm sure they all perform even better in Euforia...)....CJ


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## connieflyer (Feb 11, 2020)

As I stated this morning  on the Elise thread I have been using the Gu 50 tube. Converted for use with the Feliks amplifiers by CJ. At first I had the problem with buzzing So I knew it was a ground Loop or earthing problem. What I did was opened up the amplifier. And soldered a wire to the negative buss And then ran the line Out through one of the vent holes in the bottom and attached that to the negative output on the Transformer. Results are very positive. Amplifier is dead silent. With no signal at minimum or maximum volume. Listening to these tubes with only about 10 to 15 hours on them now. They sound very very good. . Both as use for the headphones and as the preamp output. I have a feeling. As CJ has said that at 40 plus hours These tubes will definitely come into their own. And sound excellent. . Already with a brand new tube. That needs a lot of hours to fully burn in these sound very very good. .


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> As I stated this morning on as I stated this morning on the Elise thread I have been using the GE u50 tube. Converted for you with the Feliks amplifiers by CJ. At first I had the problem with buzzing So I knew it was a ground Loop or earthing problem. What I did was opened up the amplifier. And soldered a wire to the negative buss And then ran they line. Out through one of the vent holes in the bottom and attached that to the negative output on the Transformer. Results are very positive. Amplifier is dead silent. With no signal at minimum or maximum volume. Listening to these tubes with only about 10 to 15 hours on them now. They sound very very good. . Both as use for the headphones and as the preamp output. I have a feeling. As CJ has said that at 40 plus hours These tubes will definitely come into their own. And sound excellent. . Already with a brand new tube. That needs a lot of hours to fully burn in these sound very very good. .



Glad you managed to deal with your 12V DC supply buzz/hum so professionally cf. For those not so DIY minded/able, they will have to use one of the methods I mentioned previously however . And it's nice to know that such a grounding/earthing issue can be sorted with US mains, as with ours here in the UK...WELL DONE!

And yes...for this tube to sound so good with hardly any hours on it is very encouraging indeed - I personally wasn't too sure of its full (potential) capabilities until the 40 hrs mark, and was vindicated more and more with each new day's burn-in...100+ hrs having them _really_ shine - the last aspect being treble response. Mind you, having said that, further burn-in of my TT21/GU50 quad powers is displaying yet another very interesting/surprising development - ie. intentional reverb in some (well recorded) pieces, such as Alan Parson's (Project) 'Turn of a Friendly Card', now has a fascinating quality re. the recording engineer's handling/placement of such sound effects within a 3 dimensional space. From just fading away into the distance, these sounds actually _move around _within the soundstage...and although a bit strange at first, this is now a fascinating quality I look out for at the first opportunity, and one I'm quite sure is only present in really high end gear. Whether this is courtesy of the GEC TT21s as partners to the GU50s I'm not sure, but is one folks might want to listen out for when trying the quad power combo - either 4x GU50s or a KT/GU50 mix. But I also suspect the headphones used will determine how pronounced this phenomenon is...my Empyreans - as with other aspects of soundstage - display this much more clearly than my HD 650s for example.

So, cf, I hope your own GU50s continue to develop in the same way as mine...(I think my money placed on it would be safe as houses lol! )...CHEERS!...CJ


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## connieflyer (Feb 10, 2020)

Between 25 and 30 hours on the GU 50 tubes now. Giving a listen this morning and noticed a small change.  The mids and bass are fine, but the treble is a little harsh, probably part of the crazy burnin with this tube. At this point, I don't listen much, as I let it burn in for a few hours, then listen through an old headphone, just to see that the signal is fine and no noise or other artifacts. Should have over 40 hours by tomorrow, so will spend so time with critical listening.  Going to wait till over 80-100 hours before I try the dual power bass with KT 88's. Want to make sure all is well, before I add another element to the mix. KT's are fully burned in and functioning fine.  Did notice playing some dsd files that I needed more volume on the pre amp outputs.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Between 25 and 30 hours on the GU 50 tubes now. Giving a listen this morning and noticed a small change.  The mids and bass are fine, but the treble is a little harsh, probably part of the crazy burnin with this tube. At this point, I don't listen much, as I let it burn in for a few hours, then listen through an old headphone, just to see that the signal is fine and no noise or other artifacts. Should have over 40 hours by tomorrow, so will spend so time with critical listening.  Going to wait till over 80-100 hours before I try the dual power bass with KT 88's. Want to make sure all is well, before I add another element to the mix. KT's are fully burned in and functioning fine.  Did notice playing some dsd files that I needed more volume on the pre amp outputs.



Yo cf...treble is (now one of!) the last areas to develop fully, so a good way to go yet I'm afraid - but well worth the wait. Mine now has the detail and sparkle of the mighty C3g, but is _so _much sweeter and handles sibilant recordings with masterly ease....

ps. Have been reading with interest DIY enthusiasts' modding/upgrading of the (very!) inexpensive Chinese 'Sweet Peach' SET amp that uses the GU50 (well, their own 'FU50' version, and which the Russian tube beats hands down apparently). Once such things as caps and resistors are upgraded, plus a few other mods, the 'top dogs' especially rate the GU50 very highly indeed. And given their to-and-froing with circuit requirements - bias, voltages etc - it's a miracle our amps work so well with this tube as both driver _and_ power!! This is a fortuitous discovery indeed (the best yet IMHO )...especially as Euforia in particular already has high quality components lol ....and which begs the question of just how they would sound in the Anniversary Edition model?! ...(a shame it's too rich for me though ).


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## connieflyer

Over 50 hours on the GU 50 tubes now.  Have been listening all afternoon as pre amp out, and sounding better all the time.  Treble is shaping up now, and  have not heard any irregularities so far. Sound is excellent. Another 40-50 hours and will be trying the dual power adapter,  Don't know how it could get much better, but only time will tell.


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## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Over 50 hours on the GU 50 tubes now.  Have been listening all afternoon as pre amp out, and sounding better all the time.  Treble is shaping up now, and  have not heard any irregularities so far. Sound is excellent. Another 40-50 hours and will be trying the dual power adapter,  Don't know how it could get much better, but only time will tell.



Hi cf.
Glad things are working out. I've just bid for and won a pair of NOS GEC KT66's a big step for me. Guess I'll have to wait  now until Chinese New Years hols and GU50/KT66 adapters become available to see if I've reached my final tube roll.


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## connieflyer

After using the GE u50 tube I have found these to be superior to the kt88 and kt66. I'm going to try to mate a pair of kt88. With the GU 50 tube in the power slot. Maybe tomorrow. Just want to verify for a fact. That the GU 50s are giving me everything they should and there are no hiccups as far as the tubes themselves go. Then I'll add the Dual adapters. . Good luck with those expensive tubes. Those are becoming a rare item.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Over 50 hours on the GU 50 tubes now.  Have been listening all afternoon as pre amp out, and sounding better all the time.  Treble is shaping up now, and  have not heard any irregularities so far. Sound is excellent. Another 40-50 hours and will be trying the dual power adapter,  Don't know how it could get much better, but only time will tell.



Sounding good cf...and there's a good bit more yet to come - trust me!!...(and that's _before_ the GU50/KT duo power combo lol! ).


barontan2418 said:


> Hi cf.
> Glad things are working out. I've just bid for and won a pair of NOS GEC KT66's a big step for me. Guess I'll have to wait  now until Chinese New Years hols and GU50/KT66 adapters become available to see if I've reached my final tube roll.



Big step indeed bt...those original KT66s will undoubtedly be superior to any reissues, and hope they mate with the GU50 as happily as the KT88. And when xulingmrs get back online, I'm not sure if the dual adapters will be listed under 'dual 6SN7 to 6SN7' or 'dual 6BL7 to 6AS7G'...either way they'll be fine, all having the same pinout. And if no sign, I shall reinstate the request. I can only hope this coronavirus episode doesn't delay things any further lol! But good luck with the KT66s...your patience will be well rewarded, I'm sure......


And so guys, as I continue to find glowing 3rd party reviews of the GU50, I wonder just how long it will be before the 'big gun' manufacturers ignore their less conventionally 'pretty' look and heed the results of the DIYers - not to mention _*us*_ here, now! - and realise the _sonic_ mastery of this ridiculously cheap tube...comparable to those costing _*100*_ times more!! And if I wore a hat, I'd happily eat it, after scoffing at JAC Music's immense praise of this upstart of a tube lol .
Speaking of which, I feel compelled to post here the main gist of their statement :


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## connieflyer

GU 50 tubes sounding so good now at 60+ hours decided to try with a dual adapter with GU 50 and KT 88 , both adapters in the power position.  Turned on amp and have extreme buzz-humm, turned off, checked all connections turned back on, same buzz. Turned off pulled dual adapters and returned just the GU 50's to power position, turned back on and buzz was gone.  I know it was not the KT88's as I had run these previously for a few hundred hours and no problems.  Has to Mrs. X's adapters.  These I had used in my old Elise and at that time worked fine. Have to make sure that 6bl7 to 6sn7 is a good and accurate adapter.  Could not find these on Mrs. X on ebay anymore. No sign of new ones either.


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## connieflyer

Good news and bad.  Got done troubleshooting buzz, hum problem again. Old Dual adapters 6BL7 to 6SN7 from mrs x, work fine.  Tubes are fine but the combo of GU50 and KT88 won't work for me. Put these back in and buzz humm was back in force.  Removed KT88's and buzz gone, put mesh plate EL 11's in with GU50's and no hum. Something about the KT88 or their adapter will not work with this combo, even though I used the KT 88 as a quad before, and KT77-88 combo and they worked fine. Need to pursue a bit longer. One other problem I tackled, was the external transformer for the Gu50's, needed to be unplugged each time and of course the Euforia had to be turned off.  So I bought a small 3 plug power cord, with an on off switch, mounted near the front of the equipment, so I have easy access to both. All on a switch so no longer have to get up to turn Euforia on and off. Has always been an oversight in my judgement to have switch in the back, they could have put it on the side but whatever, now have another problem solved.


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## connieflyer




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## connieflyer

For some unknown reason I could not post pictures with the above text. First time that ever happened. Now have to wait 15 more seconds to post this message.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> GU 50 tubes sounding so good now at 60+ hours decided to try with a dual adapter with GU 50 and KT 88 , both adapters in the power position.  Turned on amp and have extreme buzz-humm, turned off, checked all connections turned back on, same buzz. Turned off pulled dual adapters and returned just the GU 50's to power position, turned back on and buzz was gone.  I know it was not the KT88's as I had run these previously for a few hundred hours and no problems.  Has to Mrs. X's adapters.  These I had used in my old Elise and at that time worked fine. Have to make sure that 6bl7 to 6sn7 is a good and accurate adapter.  Could not find these on Mrs. X on ebay anymore. No sign of new ones either.





connieflyer said:


> Good news and bad.  Got done troubleshooting buzz, hum problem again. Old Dual adapters 6BL7 to 6SN7 from mrs x, work fine.  Tubes are fine but the combo of GU50 and KT88 won't work for me. Put these back in and buzz humm was back in force.  Removed KT88's and buzz gone, put mesh plate EL 11's in with GU50's and no hum. Something about the KT88 or their adapter will not work with this combo, even though I used the KT 88 as a quad before, and KT77-88 combo and they worked fine. Need to pursue a bit longer. One other problem I tackled, was the external transformer for the Gu50's, needed to be unplugged each time and of course the Euforia had to be turned off.  So I bought a small 3 plug power cord, with an on off switch, mounted near the front of the equipment, so I have easy access to both. All on a switch so no longer have to get up to turn Euforia on and off. Has always been an oversight in my judgement to have switch in the back, they could have put it on the side but whatever, now have another problem solved.



Hey cf...good and bad news indeed, mon ami!

Firstly, _*great*_ news that you're so impressed with the GU50s even before full burn-in reached lol . But bad - and sad - news re. your strange results with the KT88/GU50 combo in the dual adapters. There shouldn't be any significant difference electrically, the KT88 compared to my GEC TT21s, so doesn't make much sense, given my combo behaves perfectly. Is it the same with the KT77, and _all_ their adapters? But good news at least that the EL11 behaves as partner to the GU50...and hopefully brings more to the table as a duo lol . Look forward to your findings...

ps. Let's hope we can sort out that strange conundrum!! ...

pps. Your EL11/GU50 setup looks really nice, by the way D...nice photo!


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## connieflyer (Feb 13, 2020)

CJ upon further testing I am wondering if the buzz. Home noise whatever it was was because the kt88 and gu 50 were so close to each other in the adapter. . With yours, I think they're further apart. Because you angle that connector. So they might have more spacing between the tubes. . It's just a thought. As the kt77. Are working very very well now. With the GU 50 in the Dual adapter.if I try the kt88 again I will put some aluminium between the tubes and see if that helps
 But for awhile I am going to stay with the gu50 kt77 as this combo has really got my attention. Fabulous rendering of the music


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## hpamdr

> CJ upon further testing I am wondering if the buzz. Home noise whatever it was was because the kt88 and gu 50 were so close to each other in the adapter. . With yours, I think they're further apart. Because you angle that connector. So they might have more spacing between the tubes. . It's just a thought. As the kt77. Are working very very well now. With the GU 50 in the Dual adapter.if I try the kt88 again I will put some aluminium between the tubes and see if that helps
> But for awhile I am going to stay with the gu50 kt77 as this combo has really got my attention. Fabulous rendering of the music


Hi Connieflyer,
I'm personally against mixing tube in an adapter but this is not the point. Him can have multiple reasons :
Heating hum, you can check at zero volume hum should be present. This can be due to wrong earth, heating circuit over used,... 
Microphonic hum caused by tube vibration, to check you can use a silicone glove or any heat protection. Place your hand on top of the tube an press gently. The hum/noise should be reduced. This could be done from zero to normal listening level. To prevent/reduce you can add silicone ring to your tube.
RFI interferences, this should no lead to regular 50/60 Hz hum but more some hiss and click. To check I usually use a metallic soup can which I put over the tubes. 
Tube mismatch due to counter reaction once you turn the volume pot and proportional to volume level. This is where you can damage tubes and why I discourage using different tube in the same socket! 

I do the test on a single side the other is used as reference. On Euforia do not turn on crossfeed during the test.


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## connieflyer

thank Thank you for your informative reply. First thing with a ground Loop or Buzz hum noise or anything else. I always check it from minimum to maximum volume to make sure that it doesn't amplify itself or change. This was a steady state. . As for grounding I had taken a ground wire right from the negative bus of the euphoria. Circuit board and brought that out and made the connection to the negative side of the Transformer. This was done earlier, of course. And that killed the original Buzz completely. I have never run any of my amplifiers to a point where they overheat. The nice thing with the tubes that we have been using the amplifier never really. Gets warm let alone hot. . That's a good idea with the soup can. And when I put the kt88 back in to try them. I will put the can over it to Shield it to see if it is in fact the tubes being too close to each other. Listen to the amp. Last night for 3 hours or so and it reacted and sounded beautiful. . This is using the combination of two gu 50. Tubes for the drivers and 2gu 50s and + 2 kt77 tubes for the power position.


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## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> Hi Connieflyer,
> I'm personally against mixing tube in an adapter but this is not the point. Him can have multiple reasons :
> Heating hum, you can check at zero volume hum should be present. This can be due to wrong earth, heating circuit over used,...
> Microphonic hum caused by tube vibration, to check you can use a silicone glove or any heat protection. Place your hand on top of the tube an press gently. The hum/noise should be reduced. This could be done from zero to normal listening level. To prevent/reduce you can add silicone ring to your tube.
> ...



Hi hpamdr...long time no hear. Hope you and your system are in fine health.

I don't mean to speak for @connieflyer - he's more than capable of speaking for himself lol!  -  but may I just mention a couple of points re. my own findings.


As you know, in the past I haven't been at all keen on the use of 3rd party multiple adapters in particular, let alone mixing the tubes (as duos). However, my curiosity at seeing if the GU50 could (somehow!!) possibly be enhanced even _more_, I combined it with a TT21 version of the GEC KT88 and the results are truly wondrous...and not the slightest hint of mismatch/interference/distortion (the exact opposite in fact). And given the TT21 has top, external-wired anode, one would expect possibly _more_ chance of picking up EMI/RFI interference lol! But not a murmur..._in my system/environment_. And cf, my own tubes are practically touching each other, despite my use of an angled cradle lol!

And with 4x GU50s being heated externally (plus being additionally earthed), the amp itself is only heating the 2 other powers....no problem! 

And now the conundrum is further compounded by cf's totally trouble-free (and superlative resulting performance it appears) use of the KT77 as partner to the GU50..._in the same dual adapters!!..._(and using the same KT adapters themselves, of course)....???

And these KT tubes don't seem to have been displaying any kind of problem re microphonics thus far...

At this point, one can only surmise therefore that for some strange reason, something unusual is happening in cf's dual adapter/KT88/GU50 setup per se? I shall substitute one of my GEC TT21s for a GL KT88 and see what happens in my own setup...although my _environment_ is different, of course, as well as my own dualing lol!...The plot thickens...

And so a photo of my 'cosy' tube quartet...


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## Yoram Diamand

Warming up my new Euforia. Maybe a tube is bad, since I have a slight murmle in my left ear. It won't become worse on higher volumes. I like my old Hifiman 400i with Forza Noir Hybride cable a lot, even better than the T1.2. I guess I like the planar sound. I guess I should be saving for the Meze.


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## connieflyer

Rigjt you are CJ, the combo is the best I have used, especially as a pretty amp. System is stable and continues to improve with further burn in


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## Yoram Diamand

Yoram Diamand said:


> Warming up my new Euforia. Maybe a tube is bad, since I have a slight murmle in my left ear. It won't become worse on higher volumes. I like my old Hifiman 400i with Forza Noir Hybride cable a lot, even better than the T1.2. I guess I like the planar sound. I guess I should be saving for the Meze.


It was not the tubes, my demo model is broken. Let's see if the shop will honor its obligations.


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## hpamdr (Feb 14, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi hpamdr...long time no hear. Hope you and your system are in fine health.


Currently the only tune amp i can listen with headphone is my tweaked CTH with single E188CC or 6922..


hypnos1 said:


> And these KT tubes don't seem to have been displaying any kind of problem re microphonics thus far...
> 
> At this point, one can only surmise therefore that for some strange reason, something unusual is happening in cf's dual adapter/KT88/GU50 setup per se? I shall substitute one of my GEC TT21s for a GL KT88 and see what happens in my own setup...although my _environment_ is different, of course, as well as my own dualing lol!...The plot thickens...


Anyhow it was just some advise to detect if tube are 100% perfect or not. I've used those to do some filtering on tube i got in large unsorted/tested lot (after minimal testing in lampmeter)...
Using additional dual adapter to have more space and do a mechanical decoupling can be a quick test..
Another idea would be to also heat externally KT88 by another external power supply. (Using the same 12.6V powersupply in serie should also be an alternative only with same 6.3 tubes heater resistance to have  V1=V2= Vext/2 )

2CJ, you could also try to pair EL39 and GU50 to check if it sound as good as TT21 or not ?


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## hypnos1

hpamdr said:


> Currently the only tune amp i can listen with headphone is my tweaked CTH with single E188CC or 6922..
> 
> Anyhow it was just some advise to detect if tube are 100% perfect or not. I've used those to do some filtering on tube i got in large unsorted/tested lot (after minimal testing in lampmeter)...
> Using additional dual adapter to have more space and do a mechanical decoupling can be a quick test..
> ...



Hi again hp....and _*a message for all folks re. the use of 3rd party dual adapters...*_

I have to admit that given @connieflyer 's very strange experience with his own setup, compared to my own, it would seem to me that as I mentioned previously, the combo in his particular dual adapter is not functioning correctly. And therefore we must wait for any developments before going any further with this use of 3rd party (dual) adapters.

And as for trying the EL39 with the GU50, I'm afraid my own dual setup doesn't make for easy substitution, and so this will have to wait until family responsibilities lessen somewhat alas ....CHEERS!...CJ


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## Lucky87

Quick Update regarding my KT88 QUAD having problems I recently changed out my DAC and tried the QUAD setup again with NO PROBLEMS that I was previously having. I think I may have had a connection seated incorrectly giving the problem from before.  I also switched the KT88's around as well and it sounds awesome as usual. But this time for some reason my Sony Z1R's are sounding the best I ever listened too since I have had them. My Utopia's and Empyrean's are pretty much the same as before very good but I am loving the sound better with the Sony's.    
Going to Audition the Chord Dave today for the second time but with the M Scaler this time.  I am pretty impressed with the Dave first DAC I have listened too that sounds so effortless on doing it's job.


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## hypnos1

Lucky87 said:


> Quick Update regarding my KT88 QUAD having problems I recently changed out my DAC and tried the QUAD setup again with NO PROBLEMS that I was previously having. I think I may have had a connection seated incorrectly giving the problem from before.  I also switched the KT88's around as well and it sounds awesome as usual. But this time for some reason my Sony Z1R's are sounding the best I ever listened too since I have had them. My Utopia's and Empyrean's are pretty much the same as before very good but I am loving the sound better with the Sony's.
> Going to Audition the Chord Dave today for the second time but with the M Scaler this time.  I am pretty impressed with the Dave first DAC I have listened too that sounds so effortless on doing it's job.



Hi L87. Glad you've rekindled your love for the KT88s lol . And proof that headphones especially are a case of "different strokes for different folks"!! . But you're very fortunate that if - and when! - your hearing and/or preferences change, you will have the luxury of choice...(if you still possess them all, that is!).

And that Chord Dave - complete with M Scaler - sure is one mighty piece of kit...as it should be, for that price lol! And many would say..."why use another amp, rather than its own hp out?" Mind you, 'they' also say that about the Hugo2 but I, and a good few others, beg to differ lol!  ...GOOD LUCK with the Dave, and please keep us informed...


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## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> It was not the tubes, my demo model is broken. Let's see if the shop will honor its obligations.



Hi Yoram.

That's very sad, not to mention disappointing!  news indeed. And certainly the supplier must put it right or reimburse, without question lol!! Hopefully a satisfactory outcome will be sooner than later...GOOD LUCK!


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## connieflyer

Well You may want to reconsider the use of the Chinese dual adapters. In ouramp  I was using a pair of GU50 and Katie 77 and a dual adapter and things were working very well sounded fantastic in fact. Decided I should go back and try the KT88 in this duel adapter to see if it was still buzzing I did that and it was still buzzing so I swapped in the KT66 and that buzzed went back to the Kati 77 and no buzz now thought OK let's try the adapter from the KT77 and put that on the KT88 which is the same adapter did that and it still buzzed turn everything off one more time figured OK it's gotta be and in compatibility with the Katy 88 and Katie 66 with the GU50 make sense they're the only ones that buzzed but the KT77 back in turn the system back on was listening to it things sounded good then I heard a snap saw wisp of smoke cut the power fuse did not blow I have opened the ample fire up but cannot find any sign of a melted component so it must be on the reverse side of the circuit board that is out of sight either that or I partially dodged a bullet but either way bear in mind if you use the dual adapters from China you may or may not have a problem. I had used these same adapters in the E least app and just started using it in the ear foria when this problem arose. So please be aware of the risk you may be taking


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## connieflyer

One further thought on this last post please forgive the misspelled words as I am using the phones. Voice to text function. Went to the eye doctor had my eyes dilated. So typing normally. Is almost out of the question for now. ! So please forgive. Or at least overlook.


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## hpamdr

connieflyer said:


> Well You may want to reconsider the use of the Chinese dual adapters. In ouramp  I was using a pair of GU50 and Katie 77 and a dual adapter and things were working very well sounded fantastic in fact. Decided I should go back and try the KT88 in this duel adapter to see if it was still buzzing I did that and it was still buzzing so I swapped in the KT66 and that buzzed went back to the Kati 77 and no buzz now thought OK let's try the adapter from the KT77 and put that on the KT88 which is the same adapter did that and it still buzzed turn everything off one more time figured OK it's gotta be and in compatibility with the Katy 88 and Katie 66 with the GU50 make sense they're the only ones that buzzed but the KT77 back in turn the system back on was listening to it things sounded good then I heard a snap saw wisp of smoke cut the power fuse did not blow I have opened the ample fire up but cannot find any sign of a melted component so it must be on the reverse side of the circuit board that is out of sight either that or I partially dodged a bullet but either way bear in mind if you use the dual adapters from China you may or may not have a problem. I had used these same adapters in the E least app and just started using it in the ear foria when this problem arose. So please be aware of the risk you may be taking


Hope the amp is still working...
About adapter if i remember old days of CTH/Elise some folks had issues with the dual adapter from china some use pcb to do pin connection... The best is to make them yourself (Colin is building his own if i recall corectly) You can even build a quad adapter that fit to the two socket of the Euforia with more space. 
I'm also doing my adapter myself I even rebuild some adapter i have purchased from X...

 Deyan in US build adapter for Glenn or WA amplifier you could PM him with some spec


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well You may want to reconsider the use of the Chinese dual adapters. In ouramp  I was using a pair of GU50 and Katie 77 and a dual adapter and things were working very well sounded fantastic in fact. Decided I should go back and try the KT88 in this duel adapter to see if it was still buzzing I did that and it was still buzzing so I swapped in the KT66 and that buzzed went back to the Kati 77 and no buzz now thought OK let's try the adapter from the KT77 and put that on the KT88 which is the same adapter did that and it still buzzed turn everything off one more time figured OK it's gotta be and in compatibility with the Katy 88 and Katie 66 with the GU50 make sense they're the only ones that buzzed but the KT77 back in turn the system back on was listening to it things sounded good then I heard a snap saw wisp of smoke cut the power fuse did not blow I have opened the ample fire up but cannot find any sign of a melted component so it must be on the reverse side of the circuit board that is out of sight either that or I partially dodged a bullet but either way bear in mind if you use the dual adapters from China you may or may not have a problem. I had used these same adapters in the E least app and just started using it in the ear foria when this problem arose. So please be aware of the risk you may be taking



Hi cf. This is really sad news, and I'm so sorry you've become a victim of our experimentation. It would certainly appear the cause of your strange results does indeed lie with those Chinese dual adapters after all...my own combos have been going for hundreds of hours now, including 12 hr sessions, and still no sign of anything amiss. 

You do not deserve such rotten luck, given your constant desire to join in the trailblazing that has benefited so many folks here over the years, and I can only hope you find the (hopefully minimal) damage incurred and can remedy it yourself...or find a local amp repairer who can help you out. My best wishes go out to you in this endeavour, D...

And I myself would go further than advising folks to just be aware of the possible risk with Chinese dual adapters...my own recommendation must, unfortunately be :       
..............   *GIVEN THE POSSIBLE UNRELIABILITY OF CHINESE DUAL ADAPTERS, THE ONLY SAFE OPTION IS TO NOT TRY USING THEM........*

I'm particularly disappointed to be giving this advice, after all my glowing reports of the quad power tube setup, but @connieflyer 's unfortunate experience is one sad outcome too many as far as I personally am concerned, and I certainly don't want anyone else to possibly have the same problems as our pioneering friend....the risk is too great IMHO.

BFN...CJ


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## OctavianH

Lucky87 said:


> Going to Audition the Chord Dave today for the second time but with the M Scaler this time.  I am pretty impressed with the Dave first DAC I have listened too that sounds so effortless on doing it's job.



I've read a lot about Chord DACs and M-Scaler because I am also interested in the topic. Some claim that Qutest with M-Scaler is a totally different beast than standalone. It would be interesting if you could do a Qutest + M-Scaler vs Dave + M-Scaler and see if the huge difference in price makes sense for you or not. Honestly, if you will use an external amplifier I am not sure if it makes sense to pay for an integrated one. I am also thinking about buying an M-Scaler because it is compatible with Qutest / TT2 / Dave and might be future proof.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I've read a lot about Chord DACs and M-Scaler because I am also interested in the topic. Some claim that Qutest with M-Scaler is a totally different beast than standalone. It would be interesting if you could do a Qutest + M-Scaler vs Dave + M-Scaler and see if the huge difference in price makes sense for you or not. Honestly, if you will use an external amplifier I am not sure if it makes sense to pay for an integrated one. I am also thinking about buying an M-Scaler because it is compatible with Qutest / TT2 / Dave and might be future proof.




Hi OH.

Good point re. paying that (massive) premium for hp functionality if an external amp is used...something that requires serious consideration to be sure lol . And even though I don't doubt adding the M-Scaler to my Hugo2 would bring certain improvements, given the performance I'm now enjoying from my system it would need to be truly miraculous to bring _significant_ benefit worthy of the still high cost...(but I might just consider it _if_ the price comes down in the future! ).


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## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Rigjt you are CJ, the combo is the best I have used, especially as a pretty amp. System is stable and continues to improve with further burn in


Hi. cf.
No lasting issue with Euforia after the duo adapter problem I hope?


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## connieflyer

Waiting for an RMA to go back to us distributor for repair. Found at least 1 capacitor that a rapping had started coming off of and there may be other problems as well so upscale audio has agreed to give me an RMA and send it back to them


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## Johnnysound (Feb 22, 2020)

..


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## SupperTime

I wonder if this amp is good pair with the rme adi-2 dac
Or if it sounds good with the focal stellia. 
Its either this or the focal arche?


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## Relaxasaurus

Yoram Diamand said:


> Thank you. I will give the Hifiman Arya a listen too. I know a headphone shop with the Euforia and all nice headphones.


Hi, did you end up demoing the Arya on the Euphoria? I have that headphone and am looking for a good warm/lush tube amp to pair with it. I'm concerned that the Euphoria doesn't output enough power to let the Arya shine.


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## walakalulu

SupperTime said:


> I wonder if this amp is good pair with the rme adi-2 dac
> Or if it sounds good with the focal stellia.
> Its either this or the focal arche?



I auditioned the Arche with the Stellias and it sounded very pleasant. A pipe and slippers presentation - nothing offensive. I ended up with a Benchmark dac HGC instead but now have added the Euphoria Anniversary into the mix which adds a little tube character.No problem in driving them and plenty of headroom although I read that the Utopias are the ideal pairing with an 80 ohm impedance.


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## mordy

What's happening?


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## barontan2418

mordy said:


> What's happening?


I think we all must be just enjoying the music. I rolled EL11 and EL39's back into Elise today and chilled out to Telegraph Road followed by a couple of hours of Dire Straits sounded  soooooo good. These two tubes have to be my favourite tubes from the last couple of years of tube rolling.


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## Scutey

They're mighty fine tubes bt, been using EL11/39 myself in Elise the last few day too, before that EL11/38, can't make up my mind which I enjoy more, both give magic sound, oh and I wholeheartedly agree, Dire Straits do sound very good, with either combo.


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## Yoram Diamand

Hi my Euforia is back to Poland to be repaired. It sounded lovely, but had murmurs in both ears and it I could not notice the difference with crossfeed on or off. But Poland did accept warranty ever though it was a demo model. I came from the Schit Vahalla 2 OTL with Beyer T1.2 and the Euforia did not seem tuned that well to use the T1.  I liked the senergy with the HE400i though, so I do think I must continue with Planars, maybe the Meze. I do not see me buying very costly hifiman, built poorly. And Meze uses the Euforia in their factory since they blend nicely. Strong enough to buy second hand. But not often sold second hand, too popular I presume. Now I listen to Stax L700 which has a lot of detail, but lacks in sweetness. The Euforia are very tender to my ears.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 27, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> I think we all must be just enjoying the music. I rolled EL11 and EL39's back into Elise today and chilled out to Telegraph Road followed by a couple of hours of Dire Straits sounded  soooooo good. These two tubes have to be my favourite tubes from the last couple of years of tube rolling.





Scutey said:


> They're mighty fine tubes bt, been using EL11/39 myself in Elise the last few day too, before that EL11/38, can't make up my mind which I enjoy more, both give magic sound, oh and I wholeheartedly agree, Dire Straits do sound very good, with either combo.



Hi guys...EL11/39 combo sure is one heck of a duo, and way ahead of (any!) stock config'n tubes IMHO . And our setups - Elise and/or Euforia - certainly do wonders for Dire Straits' 'Love Over Gold'...one of my all time favourite albums, _ever!_...(and rarely matched, as far as I'm concerned lol ).

Well, bt, I'll be interested to hear how you find the quad GU50s in Euforia, compared to Elise. I've a sneaking suspicion Euforia could well probably bring out even more from the Russians lol!  But I must admit the real leap does indeed come when the GU50 is combined with a KT88 (in my case, the top anode version GEC TT21) as a dual power combo. Speaking of which, recent (personal) circumstances have been hindering construction of the dual adapters I promised you and @connieflyer , but hopefully things will be more settled next week ...

And it looks like the virus issue in China has brought most businesses to a halt for now...still no sign of activity from xulingmrs on ebay alas, so no word yet re. the GU50 adapter. I do hope things resume very soon, but I do feel sorry for the awful deaths and suffering they - and others now are experiencing. Let's just hope it doesn't become a global pandemic after all ...CHEERS!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi my Euforia is back to Poland to be repaired. It sounded lovely, but had murmurs in both ears and it I could not notice the difference with crossfeed on or off. But Poland did accept warranty ever though it was a demo model. I came from the Schit Vahalla 2 OTL with Beyer T1.2 and the Euforia did not seem tuned that well to use the T1.  I liked the senergy with the HE400i though, so I do think I must continue with Planars, maybe the Meze. I do not see me buying very costly hifiman, built poorly. And Meze uses the Euforia in their factory since they blend nicely. Strong enough to buy second hand. But not often sold second hand, too popular I presume. Now I listen to Stax L700 which has a lot of detail, but lacks in sweetness. The Euforia are very tender to my ears.



Hi YD...sad you've had a disappointing start to your life with Euforia, but glad it's on its way for repair. Let's hope she's soon back in your (eager, no doubt!) clutches lol . And yes, the Meze Empyreans do indeed blend nicely with Euforia..._*very*_ nicely in fact!! So best get saving, mon ami!


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## connieflyer

Have heard from a couple of contacts in China, and most businesses have not started back up.  And they have to start from scratch, like a human flywheel to get all the businesses that rely on each other for parts and materials. I doubt if we get much from them for awhile.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Have heard from a couple of contacts in China, and most businesses have not started back up.  And they have to start from scratch, like a human flywheel to get all the businesses that rely on each other for parts and materials. I doubt if we get much from them for awhile.



Yo cf...that darned virus sure has a lot to answer for! And tumbling world stock markets show just how dependent we all are on Chinese trade....along with a good dose of mass hysteria thrown in I suspect lol!! 

Which is a real shame, as it would have been very interesting to hear by now how more, different systems respond to the GU50. I know my own is bringing results that easily surpass in all respects anything I've had before, but as usual, few systems will respond precisely the same way...which can make this hobby of ours very frustrating sometimes, to be sure!  Still, I personally would much rather that than a more 'fixed' delivery from solid state...especially as both our tastes and hearing can change quite significantly over the years. Hence a good idea not to move on _all_ our favourite tubes that might have lain dormant for some time lol ....HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


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## andybo

Hello American Hifi friends. Sorry my English. But i think you can understand me. I have Euforia MKII and Sennheiser HD800S.  Im not so happy with this now also after 3 month. I have stock tubs.  I feel that the bass is a bit to "overblood" and loud. Thats suprising with the H800S, Bit with Eurofia the HD800 has to much bass for neutral sound.  The bass ist not precise and to full. Treble ist very good. Not to lout and agressiv. But with enought details alos is a Tub amp. Mids are amizing. But while the bas ist overbloodes there ist always a dark sound in orchestral sound with to much power on the lower registers.  I have also a solid state Bryston BH 1. The bass ist much better and more neutral. Hight are a bit to much but a bit cleaner.   The Euforia is much more musical and relaxing. But separation. sound stage, low End is better with Bryston . For me the Euforia is not a neutral Amp in stock form.  Perhaps there are Power Tubes who can make more separation, sound stage without beeing to warm. For classical i think Euforia ist not forst choice or perhaps also other tube amps. With Euforia HD800S ist FULL sounding . Yes. But not neutral and not realstic in the lower registers in a orchester. There are a lot of peopel in forums who say HD800 is great with Euforia. I think yes. But not for al genres of Music. For sound with multi instruments there is not enough space between Instruments and the sound stage ist to small. The Bryston has al lot of larger sound stage!  But relaxing is the Euforia.  I can hear 2-3 hours without fatigue. Are there tube Amps who are more neutral sounding with bigger soundstage and more separation? Or can i change the power tubes ?  
You can hear it with pianos on the lower registes? ca. 6 db to loud! Thats not neutral. With Tchno, Pop etc that would be good. But with classical its important that the lower registers not overtones the midtone.  I this way it sound to "romantic"  Yes. The sound with the Euforia ist naturally more liquid than Bryston. 

I can imagine that a Magnetostat is a good partner for Euforia because there have more bass than HD800. And Euforia has to much bass.

Ideal for me ist sowmewath between the exaktly but agressiv Bryston and the relaixing smooth Euforia. 

Thanks
Andy


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## Yoram Diamand

Dear Euforia lovers,

Feliks Poland repaired my Euforia. The better quality of the T1.2 is more obvious now, while the openness of the (too cheap) planar is still appealing to me. After saving one year I can buy a new set of Hifiman Arya headphones, which is not a perfect match but affordable.  I thought of then upgrading the stock cable with this: https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-20-core-silver-hifiman-he1000se-he6se-upgrade-cable/ This cable will not fit the T1 though. Plugs won’t fit. 3000 Euro’s for the Meze is not a reasonable plan for less wealthy people like me. Coming from the Valhalla 2, now my T1.2 is more competition against the Stax L700. T1 is rather fun. Lukasz of Feliks Audio said: “Tell your friends, the Euforia company does not let you down”, and it really didn’t. Kind regards Yoram


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## connieflyer

Am happy for you, the difference in quality of the Euphoria and the Schiit amp is obvious. I had one in the distant past. Then the Elise, and now the Euphoria, the best of the bunch.   I have sent my Euphoria back for repair as well, but to the U.S. distributor Upscale Audio.  Feliks Audio has always treated us with respect and tried to make a very good product no matter which Item they sell. The company is still small enough, to maintain that kind of respect for it's customers.  Whenever I had a question about the amp, Lukasz always got back to me with answers, and always treated me with respect, which is a lot more then some manufacturers do today.  The T1's I had were a great phone. But they had issues, and then the upgrade to T1.2 came out and I have not heard that one. I went with the Sennheiser 800, phones and liked them better. Also tried a couple of HiFiman phones, still use the HE560 some, but keep going back to the 800. The price you are paying for the cable, to me, is high. I upgraded the cable on the Senn 800 with a Draug3 cable and it helped but I would not expect a new cable to make the phone into something far different. Buy the phone you want, and use it for a few months, let it get a good burn in, and loosen itself up, before you commit to that much money for a cable. You might consider finding  a good used phone also.  I bought a second Senn 800, used for a friend.  Used them both for a month or more and found only a small difference and that was the cable.  Purchased another Draug  cable and now they sound the same. Just something to thing about.  But the main thing is to enjoy the music, that is what it is all about. Don


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## Yoram Diamand

connieflyer said:


> Am happy for you, the difference in quality of the Euphoria and the Schiit amp is obvious. I had one in the distant past. Then the Elise, and now the Euphoria, the best of the bunch.   I have sent my Euphoria back for repair as well, but to the U.S. distributor Upscale Audio.  Feliks Audio has always treated us with respect and tried to make a very good product no matter which Item they sell. The company is still small enough, to maintain that kind of respect for it's customers.  Whenever I had a question about the amp, Lukasz always got back to me with answers, and always treated me with respect, which is a lot more then some manufacturers do today.  The T1's I had were a great phone. But they had issues, and then the upgrade to T1.2 came out and I have not heard that one. I went with the Sennheiser 800, phones and liked them better. Also tried a couple of HiFiman phones, still use the HE560 some, but keep going back to the 800. The price you are paying for the cable, to me, is high. I upgraded the cable on the Senn 800 with a Draug3 cable and it helped but I would not expect a new cable to make the phone into something far different. Buy the phone you want, and use it for a few months, let it get a good burn in, and loosen itself up, before you commit to that much money for a cable. You might consider finding  a good used phone also.  I bought a second Senn 800, used for a friend.  Used them both for a month or more and found only a small difference and that was the cable.  Purchased another Draug  cable and now they sound the same. Just something to thing about.  But the main thing is to enjoy the music, that is what it is all about. Don


Thank you, I listened to the HD 800S on the HDVD 800, which was nice, but the Euforia will do a better job I presume. Stock cable of the Arya is a bit too poor, I understood. Forza Audio is not that expensive, but not massive silver. I'll go to the Euforia-shop and compare the 800S with the Arya, almost same price. Kind regards Yoram


----------



## connieflyer

I have not heard the 800S, I know the changed it a little from the original 800 which is the one I have. They put a resonator in the phone, added a little more bass to it. There are a lot of great phones in the market today, drives me crazy sometimes, want to try them all!  But the main thing is, find what you personally like, not some of the hype that is out there. If it sounds good to you, that is all that matters in the end. Good luck


----------



## mike1953 (Mar 4, 2020)

I'm a bit of a newbie here but I recently picked up a 2nd Hand Euforia 20th Anniversary with Gold Dragon KT88's and I'm completely blown away by the amp. I'm using it in my home office and currently driving  my HiFiMan HEK V2's (with Lavricable)  - it sounds sublime. I've also used it with my Utopia's but I think I prefer the HiFiMan overall. I've dipped in and out of this thread and I guess my next move would be to do some tube rolling but, to be honest, I've no idea where to start and reading stuff about "dual adapters" just confuses me. So some gentle hand holding would be appreciated. Thanks in advance....


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mike1953 said:


> I'm a bit of a newbie here but I recently picked up a 2nd Hand Euforia 20th Anniversary with Gold Dragon KT88's and I'm completely blown away by the amp. I'm using it in my home office and currently driving  my HiFiMan HEK V2's (with Lavricable)  - it sounds sublime. I've also used it with my Utopia's but I think I prefer the HiFiMan overall. I've dipped in and out of this thread and I guess my next move would be to do some tube rolling but, to be honest, I've no idea where to start and reading stuff about "dual adapters" just confuses me. So some gentle hand holding would be appreciated. Thanks in advance....


Ah this is good news for the Arya?! KT88 is it instead of 6sn7? The Psvane Gold are affordable in China. 120 euro per matched pair. Better than in Europe. Any thoughts on the 6N13S? Tung Sol had a costly one but it has dried up?! No longer for sale. Best wishes, Yoram


----------



## mike1953

Yoram Diamand said:


> Ah this is good news for the Arya?! KT88 is it instead of 6sn7? The Psvane Gold are affordable in China. 120 euro per matched pair. Better than in Europe. Any thoughts on the 6N13S? Tung Sol had a costly one but it has dried up?! No longer for sale. Best wishes, Yoram


sorry - I've got no experience of other tubes with the Euforia. Mine came with 4 KT88's.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mike1953 said:


> sorry - I've got no experience of other tubes with the Euforia. Mine came with 4 KT88's.


Ah I have the  Polish stock "gold" tubes. In Europe Psvane matched pair gold 6sn7 are 240 euro. Brutal.


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## walakalulu

Why do any tube rolling at all? The tubes have already been changed from the factory install by the first owner. Just enjoy as it is!


----------



## barontan2418

mike1953 said:


> sorry - I've got no experience of other tubes with the Euforia. Mine came with 4 KT88's.


Hi mike. Most of the current regular posters on the thread have tried and liked the quad of KT88's. Its certainly a very good combination with Euforia. Much can be learned on different tubes and how well they sounded on Euforia by reading through the thread., maybe not the whole thread, that's better done in stages. Enjoy your new amp there's plenty of time later for tube rolling if you think its required.
Regards.


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## Scutey (Mar 4, 2020)

mike1953 said:


> sorry - I've got no experience of other tubes with the Euforia. Mine came with 4 KT88's.


Welcome mike, you have already got some nice tubes in the 4 KT88, I would stick with those for a little while, get used to the Euforia AE's sound sig, but the options for tube rolling with these amps is huge, at first it can be a bit bewildering, I would advise just to read the Euforia and also Elise threads for ideas, you will find no end of suggestions, one thing though, tube rolling with this amp can be a slippery slope! .


----------



## LoryWiv

mike1953 said:


> I'm a bit of a newbie here but I recently picked up a 2nd Hand Euforia 20th Anniversary with Gold Dragon KT88's and I'm completely blown away by the amp. I'm using it in my home office and currently driving  my HiFiMan HEK V2's (with Lavricable)  - it sounds sublime. I've also used it with my Utopia's but I think I prefer the HiFiMan overall. I've dipped in and out of this thread and I guess my next move would be to do some tube rolling but, to be honest, I've no idea where to start and reading stuff about "dual adapters" just confuses me. So some gentle hand holding would be appreciated. Thanks in advance....


Welocme, Mike, good to have you here on the forum. May not be fully relevant to you but i rolled numerous tubes in Feliks-Audio Elise and concluded a quad of Genalex Gold Lion KT88's was the best of them all.


----------



## mike1953

Thanks everyone for your replies so far


----------



## connieflyer

I rolled the quad of KT66, and then a quad of KT88, then pair of KT66,KT88 and like the quad of KT88 best.  Then I tried a pair of KT77 as drivers with KT88 as powers, and that, for me, ended the KT push,  this was better than any other quad of KT tubes.  But then CJ introduced me to the Gu50 and I was hooked. Tried a quad of GU60 and loved it.


----------



## mike1953

connieflyer said:


> I rolled the quad of KT66, and then a quad of KT88, then pair of KT66,KT88 and like the quad of KT88 best.  Then I tried a pair of KT77 as drivers with KT88 as powers, and that, for me, ended the KT push,  this was better than any other quad of KT tubes.  But then CJ introduced me to the Gu50 and I was hooked. Tried a quad of GU60 and loved it.


I'll give the KT77's a go - just to see how the sound of the Euforia changes. Later down the line I'll try the GU50 - any particular brand I should look out for?


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 5, 2020)

mike1953 said:


> I'll give the KT77's a go - just to see how the sound of the Euforia changes. Later down the line I'll try the GU50 - any particular brand I should look out for?



Hi mike, and a belated welcome to Euforia land. And you have indeed struck gold with tr's AE model, complete with what I personally also found to be the best (until now) performing tubes (in my system!) of the many 'alternatives' I've experimented with these past few years - the KT88...firstly in this case the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions that you have, and then the much rarer and more expensive original GECs (mine being the top anode TT21/22 versions). As with most original 'NOS' tubes, they do perform a good bit better than later reissues, but prices now can be way OTT unfortunately.

However, as @connieflyer said, the Russian military GU50 is proving to be an exceptional tube, and especially given its ludicrously cheap price - on average $4 to $5 each!! (plus shipping). There are numerous East European and Russian ebay sellers who bought up vast (over)stocks from the Russian military, and these _Russian _tubes are generally regarded as superior to the Chinese *F*U50. And it would appear that uniformity of production is such that it matters not if produced in the 70s or 80s...they're all extremely well built tubes lol!  The only trouble is at the moment there aren't any 3rd party adapters that are needed - they should have been on line by now (from China) but everything there is up in the air of course. Another source could possibly be member Deyan in Bulgaria, if anyone is interested in contacting him, but don't know if he'd be prepared to make this particular adapter or how much it would be. I myself have made just a few, but I'm afraid I can no longer make them generally available alas...

As for the 'dual adapters'... having discovered that combining a GU50 with, in my case, a GEC TT21 version of the KT88 per power channel resulted in such a leap in performance that I hoped previously available dual 6SN7/6AS7G adapters might help folks be able to try this pairing using their reissue KT88s. However, they can prove unreliable and so I myself no longer recommend using them...which I find a real tragedy, but something experienced DIYers could possibly gain much benefit from tackling.

As @Scutey mentioned, there's a vast array of tube (and other) recommendations throughout this and Elise threads...if you can spare the time to gradually sift through... my own (tube) posts have been exclusively on 'alternatives' to those configured for these past years, if you're interested. But as also previously mentioned, take your time...this can indeed become a bottomless pit (that many of us have fallen into lol!). But you already have both an amp and tubes that would satisfy most keen hobbyists...all will depend upon your level of curiosity...and/or depth of your wallet!!  Whatever, I wish you - and everyone - HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mike, and a belated welcome to Euforia land. And you have indeed struck gold with tr's AE model, complete with what I personally also found to be the best (until now) performing tubes (in my system!) of the many 'alternatives' I've experimented with these past few years - the KT88...firstly in this case the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions that you have, and then the much rarer and more expensive original GECs (mine being the top anode TT21/22 versions). As with most original 'NOS' tubes, they do perform a good bit better than later reissues, but prices now can be way OTT unfortunately.
> 
> However, as @connieflyer said, the Russian military GU50 is proving to be an exceptional tube, and especially given its ludicrously cheap price - on average $4 to $5 each!! (plus shipping). There are numerous East European and Russian ebay sellers who bought up vast (over)stocks from the Russian military, and these _Russian _tubes are generally regarded as superior to the Chinese *F*U50. And it would appear that uniformity of production is such that it matters not if produced in the 70s or 80s...they're all extremely well built tubes lol!  The only trouble is at the moment there aren't any 3rd party adapters that are needed - they should have been on line by now (from China) but everything there is up in the air of course. Another source could possibly be member Deyan in Bulgaria, if anyone is interested in contacting him, but don't know if he'd be prepared to make this particular adapter or how much it would be. I myself have made just a few, but I'm afraid I can no longer make them generally available alas...
> 
> ...


Hi h1,
Deyan has the ability to make the GU50 adapters (as well as any other adapter that people may want).
Have you given any thought of trying the original Telefunken LS50 tube that was the model for the GU50?


----------



## DecentLevi (Mar 5, 2020)

Hey Mike1953, also heads up that if you go the GU50 or TT21 route, in addition to a specialized adapter these also require 'external heat' as we call it, which is a transformer (power supply) since these are double the normal 6v of stock tubes. And as I would imagine, as does with my very unorthodox setup, the quality of such external power supply makes a difference in sound as well. I would be interested to hear your results with the KT77 at least.

Oh and you said your Euforia A.E. came with the KT88s, was that with the Chinese adapters or from Deyan? If you're not sure you could take a picture. And that would be very cool to see photos of your special amp too.


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## triggsviola

Does anyone know if the PSVane Treasure Globe 6SN7-SE will fit on the Feliks Euforia? These: https://psvanetube.com/wordpress/st...lobe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/

Thanks


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## geoffalter11

Hi Euforia owners,

I currently own a Pathos Aurium.  Curious how the Euforia compares to the Aurium?  I know the Aurium is a hybrid MOSFET with 6922s, but I know the Euforia tends to be less on the "tubey" side, just like the Aurium.  Excited to hear your thoughts...


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## mike1953 (Mar 6, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey Mike1953, also heads up that if you go the GU50 or TT21 route, in addition to a specialized adapter these also require 'external heat' as we call it, which is a transformer (power supply) since these are double the normal 6v of stock tubes. And as I would imagine, as does with my very unorthodox setup, the quality of such external power supply makes a difference in sound as well. I would be interested to hear your results with the KT77 at least.
> 
> Oh and you said your Euforia A.E. came with the KT88s, was that with the Chinese adapters or from Deyan? If you're not sure you could take a picture. And that would be very cool to see photos of your special amp too.


GU50's sound like a hassle - not sure I've got the energy to go down that route. KT77's will be here next week so I'll post some thoughts at a later date. No idea what the adapters are - maybe you can tell from the attached?


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## mike1953

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mike, and a belated welcome to Euforia land. And you have indeed struck gold with tr's AE model, complete with what I personally also found to be the best (until now) performing tubes (in my system!) of the many 'alternatives' I've experimented with these past few years - the KT88...firstly in this case the Russian reissue Genalex Gold Lions that you have, and then the much rarer and more expensive original GECs (mine being the top anode TT21/22 versions). As with most original 'NOS' tubes, they do perform a good bit better than later reissues, but prices now can be way OTT unfortunately.



Thank you for the welcome. Just checked some prices on those - Wow!


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## OctavianH

mike1953 said:


> No idea what the adapters are - maybe you can tell from the attached?



These look similar with mine made by @Deyan


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## connieflyer

Is this an adapter off one of the KT88?  If is, it will work for the KT77, they use the same adapter.  If not from the KT88,  then you would either have to figure out the pin out and compare it to other tubes types or contact the person you got it from. If this was an extra one with the original purchase, then you can check to see if the pin outs are the same.




mike1953 said:


> GU50's sound like a hassle - not sure I've got the energy to go down that route. KT77's will be here next week so I'll post some thoughts at a later date. No idea what the adapters are - maybe you can tell from the attached?


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## mike1953

connieflyer said:


> Is this an adapter off one of the KT88?  If is, it will work for the KT77, they use the same adapter.  If not from the KT88,  then you would either have to figure out the pin out and compare it to other tubes types or contact the person you got it from. If this was an extra one with the original purchase, then you can check to see if the pin outs are the same.


It’s from the KT88’s


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## hypnos1 (Mar 6, 2020)

mordy said:


> Hi h1,
> Deyan has the ability to make the GU50 adapters (as well as any other adapter that people may want).
> *Have you given any thought of trying the original Telefunken LS50 tube that was the model for the GU50?*



Hi mordy. Have wondered about that myself from the off, but although prices for the TFK LS50 NOS examples aren't _too_ OTT (but not plentiful it seems), the Russians (obviously!) not only did a wonderful job of copying this tube, but spared no expense in their construction and materials used. And despite being a very unprepossessing-looking tube, closer inspection shows it to be quite exceptionally built, with a performance to match. I personally could ask no more from a tube, given no single one on this planet - at any price! - will ever deliver the 'perfect' sound...whatever that might be lol! . And the way it performs when partnered with my GEC TT21 as a dual power combo is nothing short of miraculous, so I shall leave it to others to try the LS50 if so interested ...



mike1953 said:


> Thank you for the welcome. Just checked some prices on those - Wow!



Yeah mike, there's a massive following of the original GEC KT tubes and you've got to be real lucky - not to mention _patient_ - to sneak a bargain from under their noses lol! . Which is why the GU50 is a no-brainer, although it is indeed more of a hassle for us as it needs the external 12V heater power supply as well as an adapter (not yet available). But some folks have found the reissue Gold Lion KT77 to be an excellent driver to the KT88 powers, and even prefer it. As usual, so much depends on one's own system and individual preferences, and personal trial is the only real way to ever know what will suit best...hence the bottomless pit!! ...GOOD HUNTING!...CJ


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, some of you use the KT88. Is it in stead of the 6N13S? If so I could have 4 Psvane Gold TII tubes. Is this possible? Did anyone try? Kind regards Yoram


----------



## OctavianH

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, some of you use the KT88. Is it in stead of the 6N13S? If so I could have 4 Psvane Gold TII tubes. Is this possible? Did anyone try? Kind regards Yoram



You should use the Psvane CV181T2 only on the drivers position. So you need only a pair. On the power position you can put 5998, 7236, 6080 or any compatible tube up to 2.5A. The rule is to use tubes which do not exceed 7A on Euforia, otherwise you can damage your amp. For example, the KT88 have 1.6A so the 4xKT88 = 6.4A. The Gold Psvanes have 0.6A, therefore with a pair of, for example Tung Sol 5998 of 2.5A each, you reach 6.2A.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

OctavianH said:


> You should use the Psvane CV181T2 only on the drivers position. So you need only a pair. On the power position you can put 5998, 7236, 6080 or any compatible tube up to 2.5A. The rule is to use tubes which do not exceed 7A on Euforia, otherwise you can damage your amp. For example, the KT88 have 1.6A so the 4xKT88 = 6.4A. The Gold Psvanes have 0.6A, therefore with a pair of, for example Tung Sol 5998 of 2.5A each, you reach 6.2A.


Thank you, but it is still not clear why people use the KT88 and where. The 5998 is sold out I got the impression. Kind regards Yoram


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## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> Thank you, but it is still not clear why people use the KT88 and where. The 5998 is sold out I got the impression. Kind regards Yoram



Hi YD.

Folks are using the KT88 - as well as the KT66 and KT77, as I found them (the 66 and 88) to perform extremely well (with adapters) first of all as _powers_, but then also as _drivers_...which was most unexpected. And different combinations of these as driver and power tubes suit different folks' systems and personal preferences. But IMHO any combination will most likely outperform any conventional, configured for tube set...regardless of the reputation and/or cost of any 6SN7 or 6AS7G/6080 or their equivalents (and certainly in my own particular setup).


----------



## walakalulu

I wonder if using tubes that require adaptors and therefore not listed as alternatives in the instructions will validate the guarantee?


----------



## hypnos1

walakalulu said:


> I wonder if using tubes that require adaptors and therefore not listed as alternatives in the instructions will validate the guarantee?



Hi walakalulu.

This is indeed something folks must consider when using non-listed tubes. I myself always give any new tube I try a good many hours' testing - including long 12+ hrs sessions, before advising anyone to also try it...given there's no hint whatsoever of anything untoward (the exact opposite in fact - I won't continue with any tube at all if it doesn't perform perfectly). Considering these factors, Lukasz at F-A has always agreed that my extended trials would therefore indicate the tube looks safe to use,  even though they can't officially endorse/list it. And so, as long as folks follow the way I personally use such a tube, there shouldn't be any real reason why this in itself should cause any problem to the amp. 
The only possible problem comes when having to rely on 3rd party adapters. However, despite the very occasional problem with single adapters, I've yet to hear of a faulty one actually damaging the amp. But in the past, _multi_ adapters have proved less reliable - the Chinese ones at least - which is why I can't recommend them at present unfortunately. Hopefully member @Deyan 's are in fact more reliable, even though they must of necessity be more expensive of course.

And so, w, these are all factors that one must take into account when using non configured-for/listed tubes. But may I just say that for years now I personally have never had any of the tubes I've recommended cause me any trouble at all with either my Elise or Euforia...in fact the only unpleasant (tube) experiences I've had have been when using some (well respected!) 6SN7/6H8C tubes lol!!

Hopefully this gives you - and others - a bit more understanding of my departure from stock configuration...enabled by our amps' incredible flexibility in circuit design - WELL DONE F-A!!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I have to agree with CJ, his testing has always brought good results. Especially the some of the El tubes, another benefit of those was the low amperage, that brought with them, very low temps on unit. I have tried most of the tubes that CJ has tested, and have never had a problem using them. Good luck


----------



## Yoram Diamand

hypnos1 said:


> Hi YD.
> 
> Folks are using the KT88 - as well as the KT66 and KT77, as I found them (the 66 and 88) to perform extremely well (with adapters) first of all as _powers_, but then also as _drivers_...which was most unexpected. And different combinations of these as driver and power tubes suit different folks' systems and personal preferences. But IMHO any combination will most likely outperform any conventional, configured for tube set...regardless of the reputation and/or cost of any 6SN7 or 6AS7G/6080 or their equivalents (and certainly in my own particular setup).


Hi, I asked Lukasz, of Feliks Audio, and he thought I'd best not take the Psvane KT88-TII tubes at all. I am sorry I could not take the Psvane road all the way. Kind regards Yoram


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## mike1953 (Mar 10, 2020)

Just tried some different tubes. I need to spend a lot more time with this - so far my preference is the KT77/KT88 over 4 x KT88 - all I can say is wow! The GEC's arrived today - had to play with them but I'll revert to the 77/88 combination for the next few weeks and then try the 77/6550A again.


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## connieflyer

The kt77,kt88 were my favorite combo as well. Liked it better than quad of kt88. More resolving. But then tried the Gu50 quad  and that was even better.


----------



## hpamdr

triggsviola said:


> Does anyone know if the PSVane Treasure Globe 6SN7-SE will fit on the Feliks Euforia? These: https://psvanetube.com/wordpress/st...lobe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/
> 
> Thanks


The space between the driver is 6cm so 5.5 diameter tubes should fit. 
See what is on the description of the tube. _The 6SN7SE widest part is 5.5cm diameter. Assuming you need two tubes 0.5cm apart at least, you will need 5.5cm + 0.5 = 6cm from center to center in order to install two tubes side by side.._


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## mike1953 (Mar 10, 2020)

This is a question for any Empyrean owners with the Euforia. I had a pair of Empyreans, driving them with various amps I had at the time (if memory serves a Benchmark HPA4, Luxman P750U and Tron Antares - all SS) and was pretty underwhelmed - I found them a bit uninvolving and never really warmed to them. Now I've read that Meze & Feliks Audio have worked closely together so there is an evident synergy between the Euforia & Empyrean. Should I be auditioning them again? fwiw I currently own HiFiMan HEK V2 (which works well with the Euforia), Focal Utopia & Focal Stellia, although the Stellia are being used in my "main" system where I need need closed back 'phones.


----------



## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I asked Lukasz, of Feliks Audio, and he thought I'd best not take the Psvane KT88-TII tubes at all. I am sorry I could not take the Psvane road all the way. Kind regards Yoram



Hi Yoram. 

Ah well, this is the choice we all have to make when going 'off piste' lol! Lukasz will, of course, always have to take the safest route...as will all manufacturers. I personally don't know about the PsVane KT88 you mention, but I and those who've been using the reissue Genalex Gold Lion version haven't encountered any untoward issues when using this particular tube...as a single at least. But it appears that it might not actually partner well with a GU50 in the dual power combo role, despite my own GEC TT21 version behaving perfectly...will investigate this further myself...(_*so, please note folks!*_).

Anyway Y, you must do what you feel safest with...and thankfully there are plenty of other tubes that perform well in our amps .


----------



## hypnos1

mike1953 said:


> This is a question for any Empyrean owners with the Euforia. I had a pair of Empyreans, driving them with various amps I had at the time (if memory serves a Benchmark HPA4, Luxman P750U and Tron Antares - all SS) and was pretty underwhelmed - I found them a bit uninvolving and never really warmed to them. Now I've read that Meze & Feliks Audio have worked closely together so there is an evident synergy between the Euforia & Empyrean. Should I be auditioning them again? fwiw I currently own HiFiMan HEK V2 (which works well with the Euforia), Focal Utopia & Focal Stellia, although the Stellia are being used in my "main" system where I need need closed back 'phones.



Hi m. The Empys are certainly not one of the more obviously 'exciting' cans out there...their signature is much 'softer'/gentler with a more laid back presentation, especially with the stock cable, as I - and others - have found. They really do need some nice silver wire to bring more sparkle and zest, along with tubes that aren't too much on the warm/dark side. Once given this encouragement, they do sound much more interesting/involving....but still in an understated/refined way. 

Given the wonderful HEK V2 and Utopia you already own, you really would need to be able to audition some Empys before buying...preferably with said _silver_-wired cable (which can then push up the price a fair amount of course, unless you or a friend can make up one using really good quality silver in the mix...preferably single crystal OCC). GOOD LUCK!...


----------



## Yoram Diamand

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Yoram.
> 
> Ah well, this is the choice we all have to make when going 'off piste' lol! Lukasz will, of course, always have to take the safest route...as will all manufacturers. I personally don't know about the PsVane KT88 you mention, but I and those who've been using the reissue Genalex Gold Lion version haven't encountered any untoward issues when using this particular tube...as a single at least. But it appears that it might not actually partner well with a GU50 in the dual power combo role, despite my own GEC TT21 version behaving perfectly...will investigate this further myself...(_*so, please note folks!*_).
> 
> Anyway Y, you must do what you feel safest with...and thankfully there are plenty of other tubes that perform well in our amps .


I saw Woo sells the Tung Sol 5998 again for 650 dollar. I am tempted, but the Svetlana 6n13s are only 50 dolar. **** If I were a rich man


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## mike1953

hypnos1 said:


> Given the wonderful HEK V2 and Utopia you already own, you really would need to be able to audition some Empys before buying...preferably with said _silver_-wired cable (which can then push up the price a fair amount of course, unless you or a friend can make up one using really good quality silver in the mix...preferably single crystal OCC). GOOD LUCK!...


Thanks h1 - the Empyreans fascinate me as they are so well reviewed. Unfortunately cable building isn't one of my best abilities so I'd probably need to buy a cable before auditioning the 'phones which seems rather counter intuitive.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mike1953 said:


> Thanks h1 - the Empyreans fascinate me as they are so well reviewed. Unfortunately cable building isn't one of my best abilities so I'd probably need to buy a cable before auditioning the 'phones which seems rather counter intuitive.


https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-20-core-silver-meze-empyrean-upgrade-cable/


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## mike1953

Yoram Diamand said:


> https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-20-core-silver-meze-empyrean-upgrade-cable/


Ouch! I use Lavricable with my HEK V2 and very good it is too. Would hate to splash out over £600 again!


----------



## Lucky87

mike1953 said:


> This is a question for any Empyrean owners with the Euforia. I had a pair of Empyreans, driving them with various amps I had at the time (if memory serves a Benchmark HPA4, Luxman P750U and Tron Antares - all SS) and was pretty underwhelmed - I found them a bit uninvolving and never really warmed to them. Now I've read that Meze & Feliks Audio have worked closely together so there is an evident synergy between the Euforia & Empyrean. Should I be auditioning them again? fwiw I currently own HiFiMan HEK V2 (which works well with the Euforia), Focal Utopia & Focal Stellia, although the Stellia are being used in my "main" system where I need need closed back 'phones.


Hi Mike
I'm going to be honest with you at first I felt the Empyreans were boring, and always wanting more from them. I decided to invest in a SILVER cable from Norne Audio and kept the Leather pads attached and started to use it with my stock Euforia and it was a night and day difference in sound, more detail, bigger sound stage. Also what I found that the Benchmark HPA4 never did anything to my headphones (see in my sig) other than a pair of Sennheiser HD800S when using it balanced. So I sent it back for a refund. Since then I recently bought a Monoprice THX 887 and I am completely blown away with it from the holographic sound stage I am getting from it vs the higher priced Benchmark. I can say the same with my current Euforia 4 x KT88 QUAD setup as well.  With both setups you can play loud with all difference types of music genres. I also just purchased the Chord Dave and just thru the Dave Single Ended was amazing.


----------



## mike1953

Lucky87 said:


> Hi Mike
> I'm going to be honest with you at first I felt the Empyreans were boring, and always wanting more from them. I decided to invest in a SILVER cable from Norne Audio and kept the Leather pads attached and started to use it with my stock Euforia and it was a night and day difference in sound, more detail, bigger sound stage. Also what I found that the Benchmark HPA4 never did anything to my headphones (see in my sig) other than a pair of Sennheiser HD800S when using it balanced. So I sent it back for a refund. Since then I recently bought a Monoprice THX 887 and I am completely blown away with it from the holographic sound stage I am getting from it vs the higher priced Benchmark. I can say the same with my current Euforia 4 x KT88 QUAD setup as well.  With both setups you can play loud with all difference types of music genres. I also just purchased the Chord Dave and just thru the Dave Single Ended was amazing.


Interesting. I was loathe to use the word boring but that pretty much sums up the way I felt about them too. Sound like silver cable is the way to bring them life. Empyrean do their own silver cable https://mezeaudio.eu/collections/ac...ed-4pin-xlr-silver-plated-pcuhd-upgrade-cable which would be a lot more economical here in the UK as there's no import duty to add.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 10, 2020)

mike1953 said:


> Interesting. I was loathe to use the word boring but that pretty much sums up the way I felt about them too. Sound like silver cable is the way to bring them life. Empyrean do their own silver cable https://mezeaudio.eu/collections/ac...ed-4pin-xlr-silver-plated-pcuhd-upgrade-cable which would be a lot more economical here in the UK as there's no import duty to add.



Hmmm, m...silver _plated?_ By all accounts I'm afraid this doesn't come near _solid_ silver, which unfortunately is a good bit more expensive of course. I personally would want to hear it with the option to return...otherwise might just be disappointing IMHO, given it's still a fair bit of money lol! But I could be wrong, of course! ...CJ

Edit : ps. Can you not adapt your existing nice cable?


----------



## mike1953

hypnos1 said:


> Hmmm, m...silver _plated?_ By all accounts I'm afraid this doesn't come near _solid_ silver, which unfortunately is a good bit more expensive of course. I personally would want to hear it with the option to return...otherwise might just be disappointing IMHO, given it's still a fair bit of money lol! But I could be wrong, of course! ...CJ
> 
> Edit : ps. Can you not adapt your existing nice cable?



adapting my existing cable could be an option


----------



## flea22

Does the euforia pair well with audeze lcd 3s? Or not enough power.

Reason I am asking is just had a wa22 die, due to a cooked transformer. My second woo amp to die. Think I might be done with woo.

But I do have some good 6as7g and a good pair of we 421A, and some good nos 6sn7 valves I could use with the feliks. 

The 3 year warranty is also appealing to me.


----------



## hypnos1

flea22 said:


> Does the euforia pair well with audeze lcd 3s? Or not enough power.
> 
> Reason I am asking is just had a wa22 die, due to a cooked transformer. My second woo amp to die. Think I might be done with woo.
> 
> ...



Hi flea22...and sorry to hear of your disappointments with the Woo amps. Have you just been unlucky, or...? ...

The Euforia - as with Elise - has been designed so as to be able drive low impedance cans better than is normally the case with OTL amps. And those with such headphones do seem to find they perform well with these F-A amps, but I personally can't recollect any reviews using the LCD3 per se. My own 31 Ohm Empyreans pair extremely well with my Euforia, but are a 'Hybrid' of course. Unless someone with personal experience can advise you, the only safe option is to try and demo a pair with this amp if at all possible...easier said than done, I know.... But good luck anyway...


----------



## flea22

hypnos1 said:


> Hi flea22...and sorry to hear of your disappointments with the Woo amps. Have you just been unlucky, or...? ...
> 
> The Euforia - as with Elise - has been designed so as to be able drive low impedance cans better than is normally the case with OTL amps. And those with such headphones do seem to find they perform well with these F-A amps, but I personally can't recollect any reviews using the LCD3 per se. My own 31 Ohm Empyreans pair extremely well with my Euforia, but are a 'Hybrid' of course. Unless someone with personal experience can advise you, the only safe option is to try and demo a pair with this amp if at all possible...easier said than done, I know.... But good luck anyway...


Thanks for the reply

I think I have been pretty unlucky with woo amps, they break just outside of warranty and cost too much to send back to the states from Australia to fix.

Yeah I couldn't find any reviews of the lcd 3s and the euforia together. There is also no local retailers in Australia of feliks, so a demo is out of the question.

Might even look towards swapping cans to focal. 

Have people had any issues with the euforia? like the transformer failing? Really hesitant to spend large money on a amp again.

I do love the simple look of the euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, for those interested in the dual power tube combo per channel..._*the saga continues*_...

@connieflyer and @barontan2418 found there were issues when partnering the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT88 with the GU50 as powers, even though my own KT88 version - the GEC TT21 works wonderfully, with no issues whatsoever. And so in theory, this is rather strange lol!

Anyway, today I tried my own GL KT88s and...no problems whatsoever...???!!! Although I use my own adapters of course, the fact that Mrsx's work fine when used singly confuses the issue even further. So I shall try to check the pin layout of my own one from China to make sure it's as I requested...if I can find it!!
I also found my GL KT66 to work flawlessly.

And while at it I tried my (converted) EL39 in the role, and it too works perfectly as partner to a GU50...sounding very good indeed, even if not up to my TT21s! It also didn't have quite  the same dynamism/bass impact of either the KT88 or 66. And as visual proof of my antics, a photo for y'all ...


----------



## walakalulu

flea22 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> I think I have been pretty unlucky with woo amps, they break just outside of warranty and cost too much to send back to the states from Australia to fix.
> 
> ...



if you are buying blind I’d go for a known combo that works even if that means changing the cans. The Feliks carries a three year warranty and is well packaged so should make it to Oz in one piece.


----------



## flea22

walakalulu said:


> if you are buying blind I’d go for a known combo that works even if that means changing the cans. The Feliks carries a three year warranty and is well packaged so should make it to Oz in one piece.


Thanks
Thinking about swapping out the lcd3's with something more comfortable. So maybe some focals. 

The 3 year warranty is one big upside of the amplifier. After my recent experiences.


----------



## hypnos1

flea22 said:


> Thanks
> Thinking about swapping out the lcd3's with something more comfortable. So maybe some focals.
> 
> The 3 year warranty is one big upside of the amplifier. After my recent experiences.



Yo f22...that's one generous - and rare! - warranty. Best bet of course would be get the amp, and see just how the LCDs sound in her lol?. Then if necessary, take the amp to a store with a good choice of cans and take your pick...if you can't try any on demo at home. Just a thought....

ps. Member teknorob was over the moon with the Euforia/Stellia combo...


----------



## flea22

hypnos1 said:


> Yo f22...that's one generous - and rare! - warranty. Best bet of course would be get the amp, and see just how the LCDs sound in her lol?. Then if necessary, take the amp to a store with a good choice of cans and take your pick...if you can't try any on demo at home. Just a thought....
> 
> ps. Member teknorob was over the moon with the Euforia/Stellia combo...


Thanks, been thinking the same. Sounds like it might be ok with the lcd3s.

I've got some we 421a and mullard ecc35. To roll in the Feliks, might give the amp more power?


----------



## hypnos1

flea22 said:


> Thanks, been thinking the same. Sounds like it might be ok with the lcd3s.
> 
> I've got some we 421a and mullard ecc35. To roll in the Feliks, might give the amp more power?



Wow f22...you have some very nice tubes there. Difficult to predict the volume output as so much depends upon the _actual_ values of the tubes themselves, and the interaction between drivers and powers....not to mention the amp's topology! However, I personally have given up trying to predict, when even such (3rd party tested) values have been much higher than other tubes for the same volume output ...


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys, for those interested in the dual power tube combo per channel..._*the saga continues*_...
> 
> @connieflyer and @barontan2418 found there were issues when partnering the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT88 with the GU50 as powers, even though my own KT88 version - the GEC TT21 works wonderfully, with no issues whatsoever. And so in theory, this is rather strange lol!
> 
> ...


Riddle re KT 88' solved H1. Deyan's work fine so it appears to be Chinese adapter issue.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 18, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Riddle re KT 88' solved H1. Deyan's work fine so it appears to be Chinese adapter issue.



Hi bt. That's great news if still rather strange, given they work OK as singles and the KT77 and KT66 OK as duo with GU50 lol!!!

However, the moral of the tale would appear to be : _pay the extra_ for peace of mind - not to mention wired, not PCB! - and give member @Deyan the business.

And a thank you to you Deyan for actually being the answer to the ongoing riddle (and proving I wasn't just being lucky with my own system lol!). All folks need now is if you can provide - for those interested, adapters for GU50 to 6AS7G/6080 (with external heater wires) as this tube needs 12 to 12.6V supply. Plus, again for anyone interested, a dual 6AS7G adapter that can then take _*adapted*_ KT and GU50 tubes...which I can't stress enough will take our amps to a whole new level, and _*way beyond stock configuration!*_...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Well done and thanks bt for staying with this anomaly!


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt. That's great news if still rather strange, given they work OK as singles and the KT77 and KT66 OK as duo with GU50 lol!!!
> 
> However, the moral of the tale would appear to be : _pay the extra_ for peace of mind - not to mention wired, not PCB! - and give member @Deyan the business.
> 
> ...




Happy to be of service. 
And I'm secretly preparing for someone to give the go ahead for a GU50 adapter. But we will see.


----------



## connieflyer

My Euforia is on it's way back from repair, turns out it was a small capacitor on the muting board. Eager to get it back and get back to tubes.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 23, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> My Euforia is on it's way back from repair, turns out it was a small capacitor on the muting board. Eager to get it back and get back to tubes.



That's great news cf...and good news also that it wasn't due to any of our tube rolling lol!  Just hope your withdrawal symptoms haven't been _too_ unbearable!! .

And while on the tube subject folks, I must confirm that after a good few _*hundreds*_ of hours now on the KT88s; GU50s, and their combo as dual powers, there's still not the slightest hint of anything untoward from their use - not the merest hiss/crackle/hum..._nada!!_ And still the quietest, blackest background one could ever wish for (and that many a much more expensive amp would die for lol). Plus an amp that runs barely warm...even with _*six*_ tubes! So any misgivings that anyone might have about using these tubes in our amps are_* totally misplaced*_ therefore .

Not only that, but even after all this time I continue to be dumbfounded by the results of my duo GEC TT21 (KT88)/GU50s per channel as powers. For some strange reason I've only just revisited my go-to track for handling of complex, massed orchestral instruments and dynamics...ie. 'Battle' from Hans Zimmer's 'Gladiator' music soundtrack. And this simply reinforced my previous statements re. this tube complement turning my own Euforia into another amp entirely...a statement I don't make lightly or frivolously. Having heard this piece literally hundreds of times during my years of testing countless different tubes, although each new one may have brought something extra to the table, _*never*_ has there been such a leap in performance...one normally in fact reserved only for significant upgrades either to the amp or other major pieces of equipment..._full stop!_

And so I urge anyone with a pioneering spirit to not only try the Russian GU50s as both drivers and powers, but especially the KT88 (or other KT of choice)/GU50 dual power combo...again driven by GU50s. Given the crazy cheap price of the latter, even with Deyan's adapters plus the necessary external 12V heater power supply, the total cost will repay itself many times over compared to any other top performing tubes. Member Deyan would appear to be ready for any order request, both for the GU50 and 2x 6AS7G to single adapter (which would then take the _*adapted*_ GU50 and KT tubes). I would also strongly recommend asking him for *KT* adapters, as I no longer have faith in those from China...the Russian reissue Gold Lion KT88 certainly has issues in them when dualed with the GU50, whereas it appears to work fine in the role with Deyan's adapters. As for the 12V power supply, I covered this in depth a short while back, complete with video. I now recommend going for a *10A* model so that there's plenty of extra capacity.

Re. the *Russian* GU50 there are a good few East European sellers on ebay, with varying prices lol...no need to pay over the odds, so long as they're NEW Old Stock. You do NOT need to spend more than $4 to $6 per tube, plus shipping....they were all made to military standard and have proved to be the most evenly reliable tubes I have ever encountered, regardless of cost... _*bar none!*_...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Hi guys..............................*IMPORTANT MESSAGE RE. CHINESE 6L6/7581A(KTxx) ADAPTER *(in connection with dual KT/GU50 combo)....................

Having checked the pin connections in Mrsx's 6L6 etc adapter, I find that for some strange reason they connected tube pin #1 to the _anode..._which it should NOT be, and contrary to my instructions to them! For single use this - thankfully!! - doesn't seem to cause any (noticeable) problem, but does so in a dual adapter with the GU50, thereby_ both _tubes' anodes being connected to it. I therefore repeat my advice to certainly _*not*_ use said (KT) Chinese adapter if going for the dual combo, but those made by @Deyan instead...along with GU50 adapters themselves and a 2x 6AS7G to 1 single adapter.

In addition, although the Chinese KT adapter seems OK for single use, given my finding I strongly recommend replacing any already owned with some from Deyan for such use.

And on another note for anyone interested in going the dual KT/GU50 powers route, I have just found a 12V 10A power block that I'm very impressed with, and of a far better quality than most, at a reasonable price...and indicated not just by its robust, quality construction but also by not needing the 12V *DC *supply wire to be connected to a mains Earth. This time I get no hum/buzz whatsoever when not making this connection, which is very welcome indeed! Plus, it supplies a quality of heater power every bit as clean as the amp itself...no need whatsoever for an expensive linear DC supply unit. It's available from German supplier _*LEICKE* : _http://www.leicke.eu/en/products/NT03015 (here in the UK at Amazon UK at least, and Amazon.de...hopefully available to the USA also, even if you need to replace the mains plug). ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks CJ, great info.  I have a quad of the 7581 adapters, also a pair of KT adapters made my Mrs X, glad you found the problem with these.  I was going to use these withe the Gu50 Kt88 combo, they worked fine as singles, but don't want to take another chance on them. I looked at the transformer you mentioned, but it is not available in the US.  Will just have to ground the 12v supply I have.  Looks like I had better contact Deyan and order some adapters.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Thanks CJ, great info.  I have a quad of the 7581 adapters, also a pair of KT adapters made my Mrs X, glad you found the problem with these.  I was going to use these withe the Gu50 Kt88 combo, they worked fine as singles, but don't want to take another chance on them. I looked at the transformer you mentioned, but it is not available in the US.  Will just have to ground the 12v supply I have.  Looks like I had better contact Deyan and order some adapters.




Yep cf...I'm really disappointed in this development re. Mrsx's adapters - it should never have happened, and I'm sorry for folks who may have bought them (my not knowing the long term consequences of their 6L6 etc. configuration). And so, coupled with those who in the past have had to get replacements, plus their change to PCB use instead of good ol' wire, it's fortuitous that we now have Deyan in Bulgaria to turn to for any adapters.

And am sorry to hear you can't get that Leicke 12V 10A DC power block in the US. Perhaps close scrutiny of it from their photos might indicate a similarly constructed one available over there...it really is a superlative unit to most others that come out of China, and well worth the extra cost lol! 

And yes also...better get ordering those adapters, especially in readiness as US test pilot for the dual KT/GU50 cradle adapters winging their weary way to you....


----------



## connieflyer

Hello CJ, just ordered a quad of adapters from Deyan.  Fast response and prices are quite fair.  We discussed the GU50 adapters and he believes he can do that as well, I asked him to contact you to make sure details are correct.  He was a little concerned about parts, as this virus has definetly put a few wrenches in the mix.  Very glad you found the problem with mrs x adaters, funny they worked as singles, but not in the quad. Also the fact that the KT77 worked well in the quad but not the KT88-KT66 in quad with GU50's.  Weird.  But am glad we have Deyan to source these too. He has been getting good marks for his workmanship so far. My amp is on track to be returned on this Thursday, so looking forward to that. The Sony Haps-1 is a nice media player, and sounds good as well, but being solid state does not have the lush sound of the Euforia.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello CJ, just ordered a quad of adapters from Deyan.  Fast response and prices are quite fair.  We discussed the GU50 adapters and he believes he can do that as well, I asked him to contact you to make sure details are correct.  He was a little concerned about parts, as this virus has definetly put a few wrenches in the mix.  Very glad you found the problem with mrs x adaters, funny they worked as singles, but not in the quad. Also the fact that the KT77 worked well in the quad but not the KT88-KT66 in quad with GU50's.  Weird.  But am glad we have Deyan to source these too. He has been getting good marks for his workmanship so far. My amp is on track to be returned on this Thursday, so looking forward to that. The Sony Haps-1 is a nice media player, and sounds good as well, but being solid state does not have the lush sound of the Euforia.



Well done D...at least you already have my GU50 adapters, but it will be nice if Deyan can manage to get some GU50 ones under way for folks, and for yourself if you want to try dual GU50 combo per channel as powers some time...I myself am not touching my magical pairing of GEC TT21 and GU50 lol!  ...BFN...CJ


----------



## Deyan

Hello guys. Just to be clear we are supposed to be making a single GU50 to KT77 or to 6AS7???


----------



## connieflyer

For my order, they were for kt77, or 88 to 6as7


----------



## Deyan

I mean the GU50 adapters


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 24, 2020)

Deyan said:


> I mean the GU50 adapters



Hi  Deyan. The GU50 is also to 6AS7G, but with wire for external heater supply and no connection to the amp’s of course. I myself make the other equivalent connections to pins 4, 5 and 6 of the 6AS7G (and which would be needed to work in my own dual 6AS7G adapters for the 2 folks who have them). Any questions just PM me...CJ

ps GU50 and KTs to be triode strapped of course...


----------



## Deyan

Got it.


----------



## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> Got it.



OK ...added to my post just now re triode strapping...


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> OK ...added to my post just now re triode strapping...



There is no second guess about that. 
Well i have 10 GU50 sockets and I already started sourcing other things I'll need. So I think I'll a couple build in a few days.


----------



## flea22

Pulled the trigger on a feliks euforia! Can't wait


----------



## Deyan

Ok got the thing for the adapters. 
....... But the thing that concerns me is that the GU50 socket has a diameter of 50mm. That makes the adapter's diameter 50mm as well. The question is - is there enough space in between the sockets of the amp? Can someone tell me the dimensions between the sockets? 
And one last thing. Any preferences on the connection type for the filament for example a barbell jack, just wires, banana jacks or something else.


----------



## connieflyer

Congratulations Flea22, I am sure you are going to enjoy the amp. The Feliks amps are very good value, and a pleasure to use. Stay active on the thread here, to let us know how things are going and if you need any advice.  A lot of information and innovation here. Good Luck!


----------



## OctavianH (Mar 26, 2020)

Deyan said:


> Ok got the thing for the adapters.
> ....... But the thing that concerns me is that the GU50 socket has a diameter of 50mm. That makes the adapter's diameter 50mm as well. The question is - is there enough space in between the sockets of the amp? Can someone tell me the dimensions between the sockets?
> And one last thing. Any preferences on the connection type for the filament for example a barbell jack, just wires, banana jacks or something else.



Hi @Deyan

Until better measurements are available I send you these made on Elise (I know the chasis is similar with Euforia):







Between the drivers there are around 4cm. In this picture you see around 11cm between output tubes. And between an output tube and a driver around 3cm.

PS. Distance is not measured from the center, you have to add a diameter of an octal socket for that. I just measured from the outside of each adapter.


----------



## Deyan

OctavianH said:


> Hi @Deyan
> 
> Until better measurements are available I send you these made on Elise (I know the chasis is similar with Euforia):
> 
> ...



That will do. The octal socket is 32mm ( at least the ones you have) so another 9mm on each side is not a big deal.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 26, 2020)

Deyan said:


> Ok got the thing for the adapters.
> ....... But the thing that concerns me is that the GU50 socket has a diameter of 50mm. That makes the adapter's diameter 50mm as well. The question is - is there enough space in between the sockets of the amp? Can someone tell me the dimensions between the sockets?
> And one last thing. Any preferences on the connection type for the filament for example a barbell jack, just wires, banana jacks or something else.



Hi Deyan.

Distance between _*centre*_ of power sockets is about 136mm. For a dual adapter, if you make the distance between the *centres* of it and the socket for an adapted GU50 _no more than 40mm_, then 2x GU50s will be able to sit in the middle as opposed to the outside. Any queries just let me know...

As for the heater connections, I suppose plain wire is the safest bet, unless someone asks for a specific type.

Hope this clarifies things for you...CJ


----------



## Deyan

Now I'm confused. The 136mm are enough for two single adapters. But what is this dual adapter you speak of?


----------



## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> Now I'm confused. The 136mm are enough for two single adapters. But what is this dual adapter you speak of?



The dual adapter would be 2x 6AS7G sockets to one central/middle single base/plug into the amp, as you did with 2x 6BL7s to a single(?), and with the centres of the 2x sockets no more than 40mm from the centre of said middle plug. Hope this clears things up...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

ps @Deyan ...the purpose of the dual adapter is so that a GU50 can be combined with a KT (in this case) tube per power/output channel...


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> The dual adapter would be 2x 6AS7G sockets to one central/middle single base/plug into the amp, as you did with 2x 6BL7s to a single(?), and with the centres of the 2x sockets no more than 40mm from the centre of said middle plug. Hope this clears things up...CJ



I believe I got it. And also I believe it will make things a bit harder but not by a lot. My dual adapters are able to rotate and be adjusted so that will be a one of the things adrresing the fitment. 
Well I'm of to examine some pictures of the amp.


----------



## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> I believe I got it. And also I believe it will make things a bit harder but not by a lot. My dual adapters are able to rotate and be adjusted so that will be a one of the things adrresing the fitment.
> Well I'm of to examine some pictures of the amp.



By Jove Deyan...jolly good lol!  Anything unsure about please PM me...

I posted a few photos of Euforia on my first post in this thread...with Euforia to the left of Elise (as you look at them)...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

flea22 said:


> Pulled the trigger on a feliks euforia! Can't wait



Well done f22...and welcome to our fraternity. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with this wonderful amp. Perhaps with the current situation re. our friend from China, you might possibly have a bit more time to plough (gradually lol!) through this thread...there's a good dose of wisdom on a good few topics besides tubes!! ...(so take your time lest indigestion sets in! ).

And here's hoping you don't have _too_ long a wait before she's singing sweet nothings in your ears ...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Just a quick note from me to wish everyone all the very best in these trying times, and hope you're all managing to stay free from the bug!

Perhaps this gives some of us at least the chance for a bit more quality Euforia time...unless someone in the household has a whole list of chores to catch up on lol!! ...Whatever, BE CAREFUL OUT THERE GUYS!...Cheers...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Mar 27, 2020)

And I would also like to add my sympathies to all those faced with this virus.  It is causing much mayhem on the populace and the economies of the world. The US is now the leader, ahead of China even, in the number of covid 19 cases. The state where I live, Michigan, is now number five on highest cases in the country. Things are not good, wish you all, health and happiness.  We shall get through this just like those before, but there will be much pain.  One bright spot, I got my Euforia back from repair, it was a filter cap on the muting board, $2 part. Started using it with the stock tubes last night, just to get a base line.  Using Psvane drivers and RCA 6as7 for powers. Like the RCA better than the ones that come with the unit. Having been without it for a month, forgot just how good this sounds. Missed this more than I realized.  Be safe.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> And I would also like to add my sympathies to all those faced with this virus.  It is causing much mayhem on the populace and the economies of the world. The US is now the leader, ahead of China even, in the number of covid 19 cases. The state where I live, Michigan, is now number five on highest cases in the country. Things are not good, wish you all, health and happiness.  We shall get through this just like those before, but there will be much pain.  One bright spot, I got my Euforia back from repair, it was a filter cap on the muting board, $2 part. Started using it with the stock tubes last night, just to get a base line.  Using Psvane drivers and RCA 6as7 for powers. Like the RCA better than the ones that come with the unit. Having been without it for a month, forgot just how good this sounds. Missed this more than I realized.  Be safe.



Glad to hear you have your bringer of joy back home, safe and sound cf...'tis indeed dreadful being parted from such a loved one for so long!  

And yes...warm her up first with hors d'oeuvres before the piece de resistance lol!!  (Mind you, the star dish is yet to arrive methinks...but soon I hope!).

And sad news re. the number of you in the US now being hit...this is a present from the Far East we could have all done without I'm afraid! The consequences are going to be even more dire than ever anticipated...but let's hope we can get through it OK in the end...TAKE CARE ALL!...CJ


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## connieflyer

More cooperation is needed around the world, information sharing is also important, some countries no so helpful but now the amp is back, will be a little more pleasant.


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## OctavianH

I think the crisis we are all facing will change the face of the world and the way we behave. And I also think that this is only the first medical crisis we face, I have a feeling that humanity, because of pollution, global warming and over populated areas will continue to face similar events in the future. So we need to redefine our lives and values if we will want to survive. Of course, this is just a personal opinion.


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## barontan2418

Hello OctavianH and indeed all members of the thread. I too would like to wish all a safe passage through this unbelievably terrible virus. And agree the World needs to learn from this and be prepared to work together for the good of all people's once we are through this.
On the subject of Euforia I've now been listening to my new setup - 2 x GU50 drivers and 2 x GU50 in the power position along with 2 x GEC KT66's for the past two weeks and have to admit this is a very fine combination. 
My setup consists of Euforia, Violectric V800 Dac and HD 800 phones. 
Having tried GL KT88's running alongside my GEC's they are certainly more dynamic but I've found the GEC 66's to give me more detail, having said that the KT88's give excellent results also. All I look for from my setup is now being delivered in spades. Holographic sound stage encompassing great width, depth and height. Excellent imaging and separation between instruments and a feeling of intimacy when listening to vocals, as if your in there with the singer and musicians. I'm new to audio and do not have the experience of many in the group so I will leave it up to others to give a more precise appraisal of the attributes of the wonderful setup. For those who do decide to follow this tube combination I wish everyone the enjoyment its giving me.


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hello OctavianH and indeed all members of the thread. I too would like to wish all a safe passage through this unbelievably terrible virus. And agree the World needs to learn from this and be prepared to work together for the good of all people's once we are through this.
> On the subject of Euforia I've now been listening to my new setup - 2 x GU50 drivers and 2 x GU50 in the power position along with 2 x GEC KT66's for the past two weeks and have to admit this is a very fine combination.
> My setup consists of Euforia, Violectric V800 Dac and HD 800 phones.
> Having tried GL KT88's running alongside my GEC's they are certainly more dynamic but I've found the GEC 66's to give me more detail, having said that the KT88's give excellent results also. All I look for from my setup is now being delivered in spades. Holographic sound stage encompassing great width, depth and height. Excellent imaging and separation between instruments and a feeling of intimacy when listening to vocals, as if your in there with the singer and musicians. I'm new to audio and do not have the experience of many in the group so I will leave it up to others to give a more precise appraisal of the attributes of the wonderful setup. For those who do decide to follow this tube combination I wish everyone the enjoyment its giving me.



Hi bt. 

Glad to hear you're still impressed with the dual GU50/KT power combo, driven by the GU50s also. It's always nice to have confirmation that I'm not deluding myself, or that my advancing years are not being kind to my ears lol!  And your impressions are as equally important - and valid - as those who may not be quite so "new to audio" . And for those interested, I have already given a blow by blow coverage of pretty well every aspect of the combo's virtues and characteristics as it gradually progressed over time. But all new findings are - as always - very much appreciated. I wish you continued HAPPY LISTENING!....along with hopes that you and yours, as with everyone, come through the current crisis as unscathed as possible...CJ

ps. I agree wholeheartedly that the original GEC KT family are indeed very special tubes, and shine especially when partnering the GU50. I can't recommend highly enough that folks keep up the search for any at prices that don't break the bank...one day you just might get lucky lol!


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I think the crisis we are all facing will change the face of the world and the way we behave. And I also think that this is only the first medical crisis we face, I have a feeling that humanity, because of pollution, global warming and over populated areas will continue to face similar events in the future. So we need to redefine our lives and values if we will want to survive. Of course, this is just a personal opinion.



Aah OH...how right you are...unfortunately! But me being the eternal pessimist, I fear the chances of redemption for the Human Race are a _very_ long way off indeed IMHO. The combination of ever increasing numbers in ever tighter spaces; mass global mobility,  and hygiene/health & safety regulations that too often leave a lot to be desired do not fill me with much glee I'm afraid. But as always..._we live in hope!!_...and in the meantime, I continue to take solace in the glories of listening to wonderful music in an equally wonderful system...and for which I'm eternally grateful. Long may all of you folks enjoy similar respite from this crazy world of ours lol!


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## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> I think the crisis we are all facing will change the face of the world and the way we behave. And I also think that this is only the first medical crisis we face, I have a feeling that humanity, because of pollution, global warming and over populated areas will continue to face similar events in the future. So we need to redefine our lives and values if we will want to survive. Of course, this is just a personal opinion.


Absolutely agree Octavian, we have had it too good for too long, as a species we have become complacent, nature is now giving us a massive slap across the face, I hope some good comes out of all this tragedy. stay safe everyone, time to turn on the tubes.


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## LoryWiv (Mar 27, 2020)

Scutey said:


> Absolutely agree Octavian, we have had it too good for too long, as a species we have become complacent, nature is now giving us a massive slap across the face, I hope some good comes out of all this tragedy. stay safe everyone, time to turn on the tubes.


Noting our collective human history has produced Bach, Shakespeare, Gandhi, Mandela & MLK, I think we have the capacity somewhere in our genome to catalyze positive change from crisis. In the meantime, change starts locally so we can all be kind to our loved ones, supportive of one another and understanding of those who seem unable to do so. I work in healthcare and strive to be the calm in they eye of the storm (I am sure not as successfully as I wish). And yes, music is a profound force for healing and nurturing of our best selves. Stay safe, sane and well!


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## OctavianH

Unfortunately crisis situations do not bring outside always the best out of people. I had some unpleasant surprises recently, from people I was not aware of being able to be like that. So what to say, fear and panic are our main enemy, besides the virus.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Unfortunately crisis situations do not bring outside always the best out of people. I had some unpleasant surprises recently, from people I was not aware of being able to be like that. So what to say, fear and panic are our main enemy, besides the virus.



Once again OH, my pessimist side must agree with you...despite LW's welcoming optimism. Sheer population numbers ensure enough of the 'less enlightened' (to put it kindly) to sway things over the wrong side of the balance IMHO. And so we must indeed all pray for some kind of miracle methinks! 

And all this has got me looking seriously at splashing out on a Chord Hugo TT2...adopting the 'live for now' mantra that has gradually been gnawing away at my innate 'reserved caution' lol!  So, is anyone going to save me (and the wallet) from myself, or should I just go ahead and dive even deeper into that ol' rabbit hole?!! This quandary is killing me guys! ...CJ


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## hypnos1

Well, guys, it's too late for anyone to get me seeing sense lol...have just pulled the trigger on an 'immaculate' used Hugo TT2 (with warranty to 2022), and am still shaking!! And hoping it can do even more wonders for my 'end game' setup...fingers crossed...  ...CHEERS!


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## OctavianH

I guess you know that we wait as much as you to receive it and tell us how it compares with Hugo 2.


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## Deyan

Well this is the general idea.... 








The filament wires are not present since the thing is still in development.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I guess you know that we wait as much as you to receive it and tell us how it compares with Hugo 2.




Yo OH...I'm praying that I have excellent news for y'all, as well as myself. Especially as I can't see how the sound I'm now enjoying could get _much_ better lol!...(mind you, I have thought that a good few times with each new tube set tried!! ). I had been torn between an m-scaler for my Hugo2 or just the TT2 (for now!), but several hi-fi suppliers - and reviewers - all recommended the TT2...which says a lot for this DAC/amp, given the supremacy of m-scaler's upscaling. One had also done a comparison of the 2 (with H2 and Qutest m-scaled), and he plus potential customers all preferred the TT2, so I'm now more encouraged. But fingers are still tightly crossed lol!! 

ps. The same specialist I got my TT2 from also has the AE Euforia, and he was very impressed by its performance over the 'standard' model. I'm just so sad I can't A/B compare one with my latest tube combo-enhanced amp ...hopefully the TT2 will rise to the challenge in partnership with mine!...CJ


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## hypnos1

Deyan said:


> Well this is the general idea....
> 
> 
> 
> The filament wires are not present since the thing is still in development.



Looking good Deyan...those GU50 sockets sure are BIG, no?!! But at least not as ungainly as those for the EL3N!  Hope making provision for the heater wires doesn't give you too much of a workup...good luck...CHEERS!


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## Deyan

Oh yes they are. As I said 50mm in diameter. The wires are not a big deal I just wanted to show some progress.


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## mordy

Deyan said:


> Oh yes they are. As I said 50mm in diameter. The wires are not a big deal I just wanted to show some progress.


Hi Deyan,
The adapters look very good but I have a question: Was told that the GU50 does not have a guide pin and that it can be inserted in two different ways. Is there some marking on the adapter to line it up with the ridge on the glass?


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## Deyan

Yes it can be inserted in 2 ways ( the right way and the wrong way lol) I'm thinking on marking the socket and the tube has a notch in the glass.


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## mordy

Deyan said:


> Yes it can be inserted in 2 ways ( the right way and the wrong way lol) I'm thinking on marking the socket and the tube has a notch in the glass.


I saw a picture of a Chinese GU50 amp and noticed that it had little arrows on the sockets to line up with the notch on the glass.


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## Deyan

mordy said:


> I saw a picture of a Chinese GU50 amp and noticed that it had little arrows on the sockets to line up with the notch on the glass.



Something like that


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## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Yo OH...I'm praying that I have excellent news for y'all, as well as myself. Especially as I can't see how the sound I'm now enjoying could get _much_ better lol!...(mind you, I have thought that a good few times with each new tube set tried!! ). I had been torn between an m-scaler for my Hugo2 or just the TT2 (for now!), but several hi-fi suppliers - and reviewers - all recommended the TT2...which says a lot for this DAC/amp, given the supremacy of m-scaler's upscaling. One had also done a comparison of the 2 (with H2 and Qutest m-scaled), and he plus potential customers all preferred the TT2, so I'm now more encouraged. But fingers are still tightly crossed lol!!
> 
> ps. The same specialist I got my TT2 from also has the AE Euforia, and he was very impressed by its performance over the 'standard' model. I'm just so sad I can't A/B compare one with my latest tube combo-enhanced amp ...hopefully the TT2 will rise to the challenge in partnership with mine!...CJ



I am really curious about what you will experience. For me, the decision is an M-Scaler for Qutest and TT2 if it will make sense, in the future. During the years I realised that in the end, we buy also the "accessories" so if Qutest is compatible with M-Scaler, I'll start with it. By the way, you should consider a linear power supply for it.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 29, 2020)

Deyan said:


> Yes it can be inserted in 2 ways ( the right way and the wrong way lol) I'm thinking on marking the socket and the tube has a notch in the glass.



Yes, D and @mordy ...........*AN IMPORTANT NOTE FOR USERS OF THE GU50 TUBE*.......the lack of a guide pin sure is inconvenient/possibly a problem if folks aren't careful when inserting into the socket. The only indication on the socket itself for lining up with the raised ridge on the side of the tube are 2 thin channels that aren't too clear if one's eyesight isn't 100% lol! And so marking the socket would indeed be a good idea Deyan...my own advice - as on the video I made - was to use a black marker to highlight the channels. Or, of course, a white spot if one paints them black!!  I recommend anyone interested in using this tube to watch the video and become acquainted with the whole setup :

As a postscript to the video, I would mention that I now have a 12V *10 amp* power block (by Leicke, of Germany) that for me at least does NOT need to have the 12V DC supply wire connected to Mains Earth. But others might find differently...
I would also recommend going for such a higher rated 10A version...much more spare capacity, and mine hardly gets warm...CJ


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## connieflyer

Just getting back into my Euforia, rolled in some old favorites.  El32 drivers, El39 powers, I had forgotten how well the El32's do piano. Very nice sound, clear and crisp.


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## hypnos1 (Mar 30, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I am really curious about what you will experience. For me, the decision is an M-Scaler for Qutest and TT2 if it will make sense, in the future. During the years I realised that in the end, we buy also the "accessories" so if Qutest is compatible with M-Scaler, I'll start with it. By the way, you should consider a linear power supply for it.




I too was debating between m-scaler for my Hugo2 or just the TT2...and wherever I looked the advice was go for the TT2 lol! And even Rob Watts himself hinted the same to me at CanJam London a couple of years back, before the m-scaler even hit the market...and which rather took me by surprise, given how crazy good H2 is as DAC to my Euforia setup!!  ....(and which still has me shaking somewhat as to just how much better the expensive TT2 can actually have it sounding! ... no doubt its own hp out will be much better than H2's, but as DAC?...time wil tell - tomorrow in fact). What I'm also eager to see is whether straight out from the TT2 is at least as good as via Euforia+++...and if it is, it will be a day of mixed feelings to be sure lol. But I shan't pull any punches either way!! (I suppose it will all come down to which is actually better at driving my Empyreans, and I have a sneaky feeling it might just be the TT2!!! ).

And re. the linear power supply, further reading would seem to indicate it's not necessary sonic wise, and in fact could even be _worse_...as per Rob Watts's reply on the TT2 thread :

Ok here goes: 1. No super caps don't wear out like batteries on charge/discharge cycles, but they do lose capacitance with time and temperature and applied voltage. But with the normal operating temp of 35 deg C and normal PSU voltage (I actually run them at a lower rated voltage) data from the suppliers indicate 100,000 hours of constant usage. Then the capacitance will drop by 30%; but 100,000 hours is 11 years constant use; for a 50% reduction you would be looking at 30 to 100 years (30 years at 45 deg C). Then there is the issue of whether a 30F capacitor becoming a 20F cap actually would make any SQ difference at all... I doubt it would. So don't worry about life of the supercaps. 2. I doubt it, the reflections would be tiny and inconsequential. 3. Yes it can be left on all the time, but standby is easy to use (and that shuts down power to the supercaps too). Warm up time is fast (from un-powered it's about 10 minutes from a SQ POV. 4. Yes some people like the softer sound a pre-amp adds. You will always degrade transparency by adding a pre-amp; but of course some still use vinyl, in which case a pre-amp is a must.* 5. No a linear supply at best will sound the same, at worst a brighter and harder sound and less musical. TT2 PSU is not the brick that comes with it, it's the arrangement of filters and supercaps built into the unit. The supercap/large input inductor means the PSU brick only supplies DC current. Moreover, the PSU brick has been very carefully selected for extremely low leakage currents into ground; replacing it with a battery produces no change at all in measured performance using a 96 kHz bandwidth. A linear PSU will add comparatively large levels of hum and RF noise, with orders of magnitude higher coupling capacitance to the mains.* 6. That depends upon the equipment connected to the OP. But phono or single ended is to be preferred in principal as its more direct - but some amps work better with balanced, and some loudspeakers would need the extra power (note it will actually only add 3.8dB more volume by using balanced). 7. It's darker and fuller sounding and has more transparency over Hugo 2.

And so the plot thickens methinks! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

Very interesting. Maybe with TT2 it is different. But in my case, I am an LPS believer, since I owned 2Qute and now I own Qutest and both received a good upgrade when adding a MCRU LPS. The difference was not subtle. And Rob Watts was saying the same also for these lower end models. This is why I take with a grain of salt what he tells.
My decision was based on the following: I usually buy all the accessories when I like a product, so even if I buy TT2 I will not be able to stop with M-Scaler (look at Elise where I bought almost all the tubes possible after it, even if I did not want to do this). So if Qutest is compatible with M-Scaler I will first try this because, in the end, I will just buy both. But if M-Scaler is a good upgrade, the TT2 will wait and who knows, maybe in the future better offers will come. In your case, with your power regenerator, the LPS might not bring so much difference, but in my case, I will, for sure, take an LPS also for the M-Scaler.

Good luck tomorrow and do not hesitate to show us some pictures! You know we love to see stuff like this.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Very interesting. Maybe with TT2 it is different. But in my case, I am an LPS believer, since I owned 2Qute and now I own Qutest and both received a good upgrade when adding a MCRU LPS. The difference was not subtle. And Rob Watts was saying the same also for these lower end models. This is why I take with a grain of salt what he tells.
> My decision was based on the following: I usually buy all the accessories when I like a product, so even if I buy TT2 I will not be able to stop with M-Scaler (look at Elise where I bought almost all the tubes possible after it, even if I did not want to do this). So if Qutest is compatible with M-Scaler I will first try this because, in the end, I will just buy both. But if M-Scaler is a good upgrade, the TT2 will wait and who knows, maybe in the future better offers will come. In your case, with your power regenerator, the LPS might not bring so much difference, but in my case, I will, for sure, take an LPS also for the M-Scaler.
> 
> Good luck tomorrow and do not hesitate to show us some pictures! You know we love to see stuff like this.



I know what you mean about what Chord themselves and Rob Watts sometimes say. For example, I - and a g ood few others - _do_ find a more pleasing sound through a really good tube amp especially, as opposed to direct out from Hugo2 for example (and it's _not_ down to tube 'coloration/distortion'!). But it could well be that TT2's power supply arrangement is indeed better than previous models...and I suspect you're also right about my mains conditioning (I should certainly hope so, with £1000+'s worth of Regenerator and Balanced Mains unit with Advanced Filter System lol!). A shame MRCU don't allow demo facility though IIRC .


ps. By all accounts, TT2 plus m-scaler looks to be _the_ ultimate DAC/amp setup...but phew!...at a cost lol...  Better get saving..._again!!_

pps. And then there's the Anniversary Edition Euforia..._yikes! _


----------



## OctavianH

Many say that TT2 + M-Scaler goes close to Dave. Others that Dave is much better and so on. I guess we need to buy all of them and try them.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Many say that TT2 + M-Scaler goes close to Dave. Others that Dave is much better and so on. I guess we need to buy all of them and try them.


What about the Lampizator DAC?


----------



## OctavianH

mordy said:


> What about the Lampizator DAC?



Well @mordy I never understood what have tubes in common with digital to analogue conversion. I know, I might be wrong, but honestly I never understood the whole picture.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Well @mordy I never understood what have tubes in common with digital to analogue conversion. I know, I might be wrong, but honestly I never understood the whole picture.


Good question - don't know the answer. But from reading about the various models of the Lampizator people really like them. Too expensive for me....
My DAC is an old Musical Fidelity V-DAC that I really enjoy. Bought it used for around $75.


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## connieflyer

Have switched over to the El 38 Dario's and El 39's, getting better. Could easily listen to these all day.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Many say that TT2 + M-Scaler goes close to Dave. Others that Dave is much better and so on. I guess we need to buy all of them and try them.




Only wish I could _afford_ to do so OH. At least a _future(?!) _projected spend on an m-scaler for the TT2 isn't quite so scary (wallet-wise, that is!)...

And @mordy ...the Hugo2 performs so well - and to my tastes! -  in my own particular setup, that common sense dictates a stay with Chord. And to tell the truth, I'm now all tubed out I'm afraid...have no further desire to start down yet another road/rabbit hole, mon ami!  This time I really _do_ mean it's the end of the road in tubedom for me lol...even though I will miss the thrill of experimentation...(much to the relief of many, I don't doubt!! )...CJ


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## mordy (Mar 30, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Only wish I could _afford_ to do so OH. At least a _future(?!) _projected spend on an m-scaler for the TT2 isn't quite so scary (wallet-wise, that is!)...
> 
> And @mordy ...the Hugo2 performs so well - and to my tastes! -  in my own particular setup, that common sense dictates a stay with Chord. And to tell the truth, I'm now all tubed out I'm afraid...have no further desire to start down yet another road/rabbit hole, mon ami!  This time I really _do_ mean it's the end of the road in tubedom for me lol...even though I will miss the thrill of experimentation...(much to the relief of many, I don't doubt!! )...CJ


I kind of had a premonition that you had decided to stop tube rolling when you said that you had no desire to try the Telefunken LS50 (original GU50) tubes....
Apparently there are hybrid tube amps that are immune to tube rolling, meaning that it does not matter which tube you throw at it, as long as they are the types the amp was designed for: Oblivion and Citadel by Sonic Trance.
I satisfy my craving for tube rolling by rolling very inexpensive tubes (less than $4 each) and may I say, with excellent results.


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## hypnos1 (Apr 1, 2020)

OK folks...Chord Hugo TT2 DAC/amp in da house, and yet one more 'last' Midnight Missive before I retire to my beckoning bed.

Although very early days yet of course, I just had to give my initial impression...more tomorrow, along with photo.


Well, after some of my trusty test tracks - from 'Rumours'; 'Caverna Magica'; Mim Grey's 'Purple Sky' and 'Reachin' down the years', and now 'Gladiator' as I speak, all I can say is...@OctavianH..._*go straight for this TT2 lol!*_

And dear oh dear, it's quite possible my beloved Euforia setup might just be reserved for pre-amp duties...as I suspected, my Empyreans  - and I! - have fallen in love with this upstart already. Its power is something else, and direct headphone out is *way, way* ahead of Hugo2...simply no comparison. And also of H2 plus my Euforia. I hadn't expected it to be so far ahead of my latest setup with dual power tubes per channel, to be honest. And so tomorrow will be very interesting indeed, when the battle takes on a new hue...will Euforia be able to _build_ on this superlative performance, or diminish it? (through the Mezes at least!) _**_...very mixed feelings right now...

Speak again tomorrow...g'night all...CJ


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## OctavianH

I am very happy @hypnos1 that the TT2 is such a good companion. This shows me that indeed, jumping from a 1500£ DAC to a 4000£ DAC will bring a good difference. If TT2 with its integrated headphone amplifier is so good, I expect that the price of TT2 is decent, judging by the fact that you can renounce on Euforia and the tubes and all the money spent on them (including RCA cables and so on). But be careful regarding the tube inquisition. I heard they do not like to hear about solid state amps here.

So, tomorrow we wait for pictures and other impressions 

PS. I own a Beyerdynamic A2 which is quite decent, but I prefer Elise instead of it for rock music. For electronic/synthpop or other stuff the A2 does quite a good job, for sure not at the level of the TT2, of course.


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## DecentLevi (Apr 1, 2020)

Yup generally speaking DAC upgrades are worth while, and I would like to be in your shoes H1... unfortunately in my current position I'm nowhere near it. I finally took the plunge for a big DAC upgrade last month, from a Modi 2 Multibit (with 3 USB components / purifiers before it that also made a substantial improvement), to the now Audio-GD R-1 DAC (fully upgraded top version which uses the same DAC as their R28 unit). Color me NON-impressed! So far with 300 hours burn-in it's not even comparable to the former DAC costing 1/3rd the price, with literally worse realism, detail, soundstage, separation, dynamics, you name it. It goes to show how superb the price/performance ratio is of the Modi 2 Multibit. I'll continue burn-in until around 500 hours but I doubt it can morph into a new DAC at this point. For me I'll not be going the China route for a while and probably also going with Chord Electronics, looking for a used Qutest DAC most likely after selling this huge brick 30x larger but performing worse.

PS- I'm still using my 'customized' Euforia awaiting my Glenn amp after around 8 months


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## hypnos1 (Apr 1, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I am very happy @hypnos1 that the TT2 is such a good companion. This shows me that indeed, jumping from a 1500£ DAC to a 4000£ DAC will bring a good difference. If TT2 with its integrated headphone amplifier is so good, I expect that the price of TT2 is decent, judging by the fact that you can renounce on Euforia and the tubes and all the money spent on them (including RCA cables and so on). But be careful regarding the tube inquisition. I heard they do not like to hear about solid state amps here.
> 
> So, tomorrow we wait for pictures and other impressions
> 
> PS. I own a Beyerdynamic A2 which is quite decent, but I prefer Elise instead of it for rock music. For electronic/synthpop or other stuff the A2 does quite a good job, for sure not at the level of the TT2, of course.




Yes indeed OH...I'm sure a lot of the 'magic' I'm finding is to do with the TT2's power delivery...driving the Empyreans to perfection lol!... along with its other undoubted virtues. And as you say, although expensive, the fact you have a top rate DAC _and_ headphone amp in one makes it extremely good value IMHO.

Anyway, I shan't dwell too much on its merits as such an amp, this being a Euforia thread of course!!  However, I did say I wouldn't pull any punches, so hopefully I'm forgiven for pointing out inalienable facts in comparing its direct hp out with its abilities as DAC to my Euforia setup.

And so firstly, my initial impressions I touched on last night weren't 'new toy' syndrome...far from it. Today, with further time on circuits that may well be different to what the original owner was using, I'm even _more_ impressed by its direct hp out performance...from delicate choral - Voces8 & 'Seal Lullaby', thru light rock - eg ELO, to Jory Vinikour's incredible harpsichord playing in Handel's 'Harmonious Blacksmith' and Holst's 'Mars' from the Planets suite, all are handled with consummate ease. And the dynamic, powerful delivery belies its prowess with much gentler fare.

OK, so this is music to the Meze Empyrean's ears, but in the TT2's 'base' filter form, I can see those with bright systems/headphones possibly finding it tiring after long listening sessions...Chord/engineer designer Rob Watts call it 'incisive' mode, and that it sure is lol! To some ears I think _strident_ might be more appropriate! And even with my 'smooth' Empys, I was much happier with it set to filter#2 - ie. slight HF roll-off, especially for some hi-res material. In fact as soon as I switched to it, my feeling was aahhh...home ground...my beloved latest Euforia setup! (Which rather surprised me as I don't generally like any messing about by _filters!_).

Right then, so how are things as DAC to my Euforia? I haven't really had long enough yet for full in-depth analysis, but Rob Watts certainly has pulled out all (or most!) of the stops with this piece of kit, to be sure. Although it is indeed 'solid state', it's far removed from the usual equipment that falls into this category...viz. his development of the use of FPGA architecture for both DAC function _and_ amplification, as opposed to the conventional use of such as ESS Sabre chips/R2R circuitry etc. as DAC and then traditional op amp implementation. The end result doesn't seem - to me and most others - to reflect the often criticised aspects of SS, but still manages to deliver all the _good_ aspects...(of top quality SS that is!). Thankfully, all this - along with Watts's 'beefing' up of the TT2 over the first model, and Hugo2, provides a good tube amp such as Euforia (plus certain tubes!) with a signal that does indeed take it into higher territory. There's greater detail across the FR; more 'incisiveness'/attack/decay; more 'presence' and authority...especially in the lower frequencies. Bass is, in short, _phenomenal_, both in quantity and quality. Mind you, it was already in this territory with my latest dual GEC TT21/GU50 powers per channel, driven by 2x GU50s....as was the widest/deepest/most 3 dimensional stage I've ever heard from my Euforia. To be fair to the TT2, its own direct out is at least just as good. Euforia, as with most tube amps, does 'smooth' out the overall sound, albeit at the cost of a certain degree of that 'incisiveness' IMHO.

To sum up, is the TT2 worth £4000 or so (new)? I have to say the improvements so far as DAC over my Hugo2 _to my current setup_ aren't _completely_ earth shattering. But I believe that's more down to the surprising results of my latest tube complement. However, I suspect I will in fact notice more and more worthwhile benefits after much longer listening of different types of music. And what is encouraging, given the not inconsiderable cost, is that the 'softer' delivery of tubes via Euforia will be most welcome when the head calls for it, but the TT2 will shine when it can handle 'The Full Monty' lol!! There's room in my home for _both!   ..._

And so, just a couple of pics for y'all..............


 

ps. Do I regret the hit to the wallet?...Certainly NOT!!...CHEERS!...CJ

pps. Given the TT2's prowess as a headphone amp as well as top flight DAC, it does then become much more 'shattering' lol!!


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## OctavianH

Happy to see your first impressions. Can you please make a small comparison with T1 if you still have them? I have a feeling that 600 Ohm headphones might provide different results on TT2 vs Euforia. Of course, when you have time and if you are also interested, I do not want to loose your time.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Happy to see your first impressions. Can you please make a small comparison with T1 if you still have them? I have a feeling that 600 Ohm headphones might provide different results on TT2 vs Euforia. Of course, when you have time and if you are also interested, I do not want to loose your time.



Hi OH. This is something I intended to try myself, just out of interest. But as I had cannibalised mine to fit a replacement cable that I then transferred to my Empyreans, I've got some reinstatement of the original cable to get round to doing lol! So it could be a while I'm afraid! However, I'm sure there's nothing at all to worry about re. different impedance matching - according to the manual, the range covered is - and not limited to! - *16 to 800 Ohms!!*...WOW...the specifications of this baby are quite remarkable, as is the sound (especially hp out ). Today I hope to see what TT2 plus Euforia as pre-amp to my Vincent integrated and Tannoys delivers...

ps. You might be right about a linear power supply. Although the 'brick' style provided seems to be working perfectly, I'm less than impressed with the actual _look_ of its construction - especially the almost bell-wire DC supply wire! And even though Rob Watts says its function is only minor, with most of the work being done internally by supercaps etc., I'm going for a more reasonably priced one than MCRU's £400 to £600 offerings, and fit my own UP-OCC mains and DC cables as per the £600+ model (but mine will have silver, not just copper lol!! ).


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## hypnos1

Well @OctavianH , and anyone who may be interested... although I was hoping to trial the Hugo TT2 DAC/amp plus Euforia as pre-amp today, a non-empty house forced me to spend more time evaluating the Chord's direct headphone out vs Euforia after a good few more hours' burning in of my hp port used - there are 3! - and the new connector (BNC) for my UP-OCC digital coax cable. And not one for beating about the bush (there's far too much of that in the World today!), I have to make a rather devastating confession...that I shall, however, qualify of course - especially as it's hardly fair to compare the two, given the respective costs involved....

After being so unexpectedly surprised by my Euforia's enhanced performance via the GEC T21/GU50 duo as powers per channel, driven by 2x GU50s, I wasn't expecting it to be so outclassed by something this side of £6000...especially with no tubes in it lol!  Well, I'm still getting over the shock of it actually...this masterpiece, design engineered by Rob Watts, and using the latest FPGA architecture, is truly in a class of its own as far as my humble self is concerned. The obvious advanced DAC performance also carries over to its headphone output...which should be no real surprise as it's fed directly from the very same FPGA DAC circuit, without the need for conventional output amplification.

And the end result is a surefire killer of _anything_ anywhere near its price point...even my beloved (enhanced!) Euforia setup . I shall say no more than it exceeds in _all _areas you care to name, not just the odd one here and there...full stop...

But, to put things back into perspective, I firmly believe that Euforia, plus some of the latter unconventional tubes especially, still outperforms other amps anywhere near its price point, and is an exceptional product. Plus, my time with Elise and Euforia has taught me more about good sound reproduction appreciation than I could ever have envisaged, and brought me into contact with so many friendly, helpful and experienced fellow enthusiasts...something for which I shall be forever grateful...THANKS GUYS!
And although my Empyreans will be staying in the newcomer most of the time from now on, I'm looking forward to my Euforia setup doing important pre-amp duties to my speakers .

So, continued HAPPY LISTENING to you all...and CHEERS for now...CJ


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## mordy

Goodbye to tubes for headphones?


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Goodbye to tubes for headphones?



Hi mordy...just a quick note before zzzzz....

With each of my test tracks heard countless times already the answer must, sadly, be an emphatic YES!...if one can afford it lol!

This offering from Chord - more specifically, design engineer Rob Watts - must surely rank as a massive game changer in the DAC world AND headphone amplification IMHO. As I listen to Richard Burton’s voice narrating, along with the music and effects in Jeff Wayne’s musical version of ‘ War of the Worlds’ I’m transfixed in total disbelief...RIP tubes alas......

G’night all...


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## mordy

If I sold all my tubes and my two tube amps I don't think I could get together enough money to buy the Hugo TT2 DAC which sells for $5495.00 here.....
So I have to continue enjoying what I have.
Ignorance is bliss.
And congrats on your new purchase!


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## LoryWiv (Apr 3, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...just a quick note before zzzzz....
> 
> With each of my test tracks heard countless times already the answer must, sadly, be an emphatic YES!...if one can afford it lol!
> 
> ...


Congrats, @hypnos1.  I am vicariously enjoying your ascent into musical bliss and contentment. One comment / question: I've stayed away from combined DAC / Amps as one or the other may require trade-offs. Clearly Hugo TT2 is TOTL in both areas, but I believe Mr. Watts and co. aren't big proponents of native DSD and Schitt DAC's only support DoP. My ears have always preferred native DSD to DoP (either using source DSD material with no processing or PCM output to DSD using Signalyst HQ Player.) Admittedly, when I try to decipher the science behind native DSD decoding versus outputting DoP my small brain rapidly hits capacity, and my native DSD preference may be placebo / expectation bias that packing DSD into a 24 / 176.4 PCM container that has to be unpacked before playback may negatively affect the output.

Hence the question: Have you utilized DSD source files with Hugo TT and if so, can you comment as to whether the DAC handles them with technical and sonic aplomb?


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## hypnos1

mordy said:


> If I sold all my tubes and my two tube amps I don't think I could get together enough money to buy the Hugo TT2 DAC which sells for $5495.00 here.....
> So I have to continue enjoying what I have.
> Ignorance is bliss.
> And congrats on your new purchase!



Thanks mordy...I still can't help feeling somewhat of a turncoat, but there is plenty of room for _all_ different types of gear of course...only limited by the wallet lol!  In my own case, no holidays for the past few years, and little prospect of one this year given the chaos we're in (plus an attractive price on an immaculate used example, with still over 2 years' warranty) all conspired to have me take the plunge. Not to mention the current need for some special cheer, and watching my savings losing value by the day ...(amazing how you can justify things sometimes, non?!! ).

Anyway, the icing on the cake was the unexpected bonus of the TT2's own headphone capabilities over and above those as a DAC, and which surprised me no end given I wasn't exactly blown totally away with a short listen of their Dave + Utopias at CanJam London a while back...confirming how these shows aren't really a good indicator of equipment's true abilities! Plus, they can't have anything like the conditioned mains supply at such venues that I now enjoy, nor are using cables throughout that I'm sure don't match my own multi-gauge UP-OCC silver and copper that would cost a fortune commercially lol!...etc. etc. Whatever, this TT2 in my own home setup _is_ totally blowing me away....so forego any holidays/sell the mother-in-law/rob a bank/do whatever it takes to spoil yourselves with this marvel of a machine!! 

Mind you, the road of tube rolling is one I wouldn't have missed for the world...especially the discovery of hidden tube gems, and yes mordy, particularly if they come cheap!!! I wish you continued joy - and luck! - in your own tube journey...CJ




LoryWiv said:


> Congrats, @hypnos1.  I am vicariously enjoying your ascent into musical bliss and contentment. One comment / question: I've stayed away from combined DAC / Amps as one or the other may require trade-offs. Clearly Hugo TT2 is TOTL in both areas, but I believe Mr. Watts and co. aren't big proponents of native DSD and Schitt DAC's only support DoP. My ears have always preferred native DSD to DoP (either using source DSD material with no processing or PCM output to DSD using Signalyst HQ Player.) Admittedly, when I try to decipher the science behind native DSD decoding versus outputting DoP my small brain rapidly hits capacity, and my native DSD preference may be placebo / expectation bias that packing DSD into a 24 / 176.4 PCM container that has to be unpacked before playback may negatively affect the output.
> 
> Hence the question: Have you utilized DSD source files with Hugo TT and if so, can you comment as to whether the DAC handles them with technical and sonic aplomb?



And thanks to you too LW...and glad to have been a cog in the wheel of your own journey in this wonderful hobby of ours..._keep truckin' lol!_

As for things DSD, I'm afraid the mixed opinions; cost of files; and the need to work hard at getting USB transfer anywhere near what I regard as _acceptable_ even have turned me right off the whole idea! Re. the latter, I'm also less than impressed with the ridiculously thin (and relatively poor quality) wires used for USB cables, let alone the vagaries of laptops etc. Plus, when using UP-OCC silver & copper wires for digital coax transfer from a top notch source such as my Naim UnitiCore's SSD drive, even CD quality recordings sound truly exceptional...and hi-res PCM more so (when both are well engineered in the first place that is!). And with Rob Watts's help, these are taken to even newer heights. And so, my friend, I now have no real desire to even consider DSD...but who knows in the future...??!!...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Sorry to be of no real help to you lol! But am glad you yourself are happy with DSD...


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## DecentLevi (Apr 4, 2020)

Hey H1 big congrats on your Hugo TT2 DAC/amp , you must be all the way up there with DAVE performance. Well now that the cat's out of the bag here I may as well finally let this one out too.

Personally however I do hope that folks around here keep in mind what uber options we still have in other areas with how far our hobby has been advancing recently. A stealthy mention is the Ultrasonic Studios with their Oblivion and Citadel tube amps. This may be a new entry, and even something I have yet to try, but by all means check out their thread, especially the first post. It's a new amp topology that probably someone like @MrCurwen could summarize better than me. Suffice it to say it shot straight to and even through the upper stratosphere of what is possible with modern amplification, a brand new design discarding parasitics which multiple people having compared it even favorably to the almighty Woo Audio WA-33, and our trusty member @UntilThen which also has/had the Studio Six, Glenn OTL, Euforia, among others and only looks back when he has to. What's more is this beauty sells for the around the same as the Euforia and the tubes it uses (which generally don't effect the sound much) cost only around $5 each.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/post-14852507

Certainly nothing against the TT2 and I'm not implying this will sound better, but it may, and I would rather go for something like this paired with a somewhat more affordable DAC such as the Qutest if I were willing to shell out that much on an upgrade.


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## hypnos1

Well, @DecentLevi...without full A/B  comparison of similar quality equipment (and I mean _extensive..._ie. _weeks_ at least!), we can never really know just how different gear matches up to each other....excepting when something is so much ahead it's clear to anyone with fine-tuned assessment experience especially.

Re. the offerings from UltraSonics...given different tubes apparently make no difference to the overall sound - ergo one loses the ability to tailor the sound according to personal taste/other gear, then a good few folks would regard that as a _dis_advantage, just as with most SS... (whereas Rob Watts's own developmental use of FPGA circuitry, plus extremely well implemented sound filtering options, allows for a certain amount of 'tweaking' to one's preferences).

And re. settling for a more 'economical' DAC such as Qutest, you're then entering 'weakest link' territory...especially given the vast improvement of the TT2 over Hugo2 for example - there's simply no comparison. And so as usual, it comes down to 'horses for courses'...and one's wallet!!  

Finally, I would repeat that for those in the Euforia ballpark and prefer the versatility of tube rolling in a good OTL amplifier (especially with the latest 'alternative' tubes), then it should stand high in one's list IMHO. And for those who want, and can afford to go higher up the ladder, there are indeed other options...bearing in mind the importance of the DAC in the chain; headphones of course, and not forgetting the actual source..._and_ mains conditioning/cables etc. etc.!!...So guys, HAPPY HUNTING...not just HAPPY LISTENING! ...CJ

ps. Sorry to hear your massive disappointment re. your DAC episode DL...


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## DecentLevi

Well guys I've finally gone bonkers and am turning a leaf with my amp on hand. I've waited too long for my Glenn amp and want to change the flavor, and found a good deal on a Quad PA One + amp, so out goes my Euforia. Anyone interested see below:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...hite-6080s-gec-6080s-triad-transformer.929172

Also H1 thanks for your sentiments. There's more I could add / debate about the merits of the other amp but don't want to derail this thread.


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## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Well guys I've finally gone bonkers and am turning a leaf with my amp on hand. I've waited too long for my Glenn amp and want to change the flavor, and found a good deal on a Quad PA One + amp, so out goes my Euforia. Anyone interested see below:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...hite-6080s-gec-6080s-triad-transformer.929172
> 
> Also H1 thanks for your sentiments. There's more I could add / debate about the merits of the other amp but don't want to derail this thread.


Hi DL,
Enjoy your new amp! If I am correct, it uses 2x6SL7 and 2x6SN7 tubes. In my tube rolling pursuits I tried a number of 6SL7 tubes including Tung Sol BGRP and others.  My favorite was the National Union umbrella spoke 6SL7WGT from 1953. However, every amp is different, and I cannot predict how those will sound in your new amp. And I am sure that you have plenty of 6SN7 variants. Maybe there is room if the cover is off to try the different EL tubes that have the same characteristics as the 6SN7!


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## DecentLevi

Hey guys I have a potential buyer for the Euforia in Singapore. He is asking is the 110 volt North American version of uforia compatible with 230 volt? He also asked if there's any way to 'rewire' it to work with 230 volts whatever that means. Thanks


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## DecentLevi

Hi again folks, disregard - Lukasz said the voltage is tied to the transformer and generally can't be changed, just as I thought.


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## connieflyer (Apr 9, 2020)

Sorry to hear that you had a potential buyer, and dropped out so quickly.  Bodes well for me, as I will be selling mine, after the Anniversary amp gets here.  I want to hear both side by side before I sell the Euforia.  Good luck with the sale. It is a good product, and the price seems fair.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Sorry to hear that you had a potential buyer so quickly.  Bodes well for me, as I will be selling mine, after the Anniversary amp gets here.  I want to hear both side by side before I sell the Euforia.  Good luck with the sale. It is a good product, and the price seems fair.




Oooh, cf...an Anniversary present to yourself...WELL DONE! It will be very interesting indeed to see how you find it in battle with the original. Let's hope this current turmoil doesn't delay things _too_ much lol!  In the meantime it'll also be interesting to hear your impressions of a return to the GU50...especially when you can again try the duo KT/GU50 combo per power channel......CJ


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## DecentLevi (Apr 8, 2020)

Yeah I thought $1050 is a fair price because mine goes back a few years and it's the original version before the price hike. I sold it yesterday to our fellow hobbyist @richard89 who you may remember from the Elise threads, and he should have it by this weekend. Richard feel free to join in here, this is where the F.A. action has been at.


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## richard89

Hi all, looking forward to rolling tubes with the Euforia once again after having been away from the Elise from some time. Quite excited. Hope you all are well! And thank you Levi for selling to me!


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## connieflyer (Apr 9, 2020)

Good for you DL, looks like you are set for the next part of your musical journey, and I do remember Richard89  from the other threads. I still message some of the members on the Garage1217 thread. You remember, where we started out before Elise.  And of course the resident guru SolderDude. My anniversary amp was supposed to be here just after Easter, but Lukasz said with the virus it may be a little later. He had to divide up the staff to work two shifts to minimize the number of people in one place at a time. Should be here by the end of the month I assume, and then will burn it in, and compare my Euforia to the Anniversary amp, before I sell the Euforia. Looking forward to it.


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## DecentLevi (Apr 9, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Good for you DL, looks like you are set for the next part of your musical journey, and I do remember Richard89  from the other threads. I still message some of the members on the Garage1217 thread. You remember, where we started out before Elise. He started us on tube rolling when he came up with the adapter for nine pin to seven pin tubes. And then he made the dual adapter and rolled all sorts of tubes.  It was a good little amp.  And of course the resident guru SolderDude. My anniversary amp was supposed to be here just after Easter, but Lukasz said with the virus it may be a little later. He had to divide up the staff to work two shifts to minimize the number of people in one place at a time. Should be here by the end of the month I assume, and then will burn it in, and compare my Euforia to the Anniversary amp, before I sell the Euforia. Looking forward to it.


Wow so Richard89 helped spur on much of momentum for tube rolling in our group? He said he never had the Garage1217 amps though. And who made the dual adapter? My memory is actually worse than some of the elders.

@richard89 you asked me about stock tubes, and I think we can help you much better on the forum. I shipped the Euforia to you with 2 ST (bottle shaped) RCA 6AS7G power tubes and 2 6SN7 GTA driver tubes which is basically a stock compliment. Those RCA 6AS7G tubes are very comparable to the stock tubes which are Russian made Svetlana 6H13C fairly new production power tubes, by memory I would say they have a slightly more realistic timbre than stock, slightly better soundstage and perhaps better handling of rhythm and not as colored. Looks like the stock power tubes now have changed to 6N13S - haven't tried it but to me it looks even more like the RCA 6AS7G; both stock power tubes are types of 6AS7.

And the 6SN7 GTA drivers are a very solid 6SN7 type with spot-on tonality, dynamics, etc. hard to fault for a 6SN7. The current 6SN7 class offered with Euforia is _Premium PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” / or "Silver" PsVane 6SN7. _I have actually yet to try the PSVanes, but many have reported positive results. Since you said you're looking to get a feel for the stock tubes I would definitely recommend trying PsVanes, but trying the stock power tubes would be unfruitful vs. the RCA 6AS7G; especially since you're also getting GEC & Bendix 6080. What you have is generally the best you can get for stock-class tubes, aside from perhaps a good foton or authentic 'Bad Body' 6SN7 and GEC 6AS7G powers. Beyond that there are myriads of 'aftermarket' tubes using adapters and even external power we have discovered which bring interesting results to the table which you could explore down the line.


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## connieflyer (Apr 9, 2020)

Dl, what I said I remember him from other thread ,Elise, and Asked if you remembered tube rolling on Garage1217. The owner of the brand started the adapters.


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## connieflyer

Richard89, if you decide to try the Foton tubes, which I liked better than most of the 6sn7's, I have a pair of low mileage tubes that I used until going down the KT tube route. Also some El32, El11, El12 and many more. Enjoy your time with the Euforia, and very good product to be sure.  The latest tube combo for me, a pair of GU50 for drivers, a pair of KT77 and a pair of GU59 as powers. Sounding great so far.


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## UntilThen

Wow @connieflyer that looks like a chemistry lab with those blue coloured tubes.  I'm amazed at how Euforia has evolved here but hey it's all in the interest of enjoyment. Still enjoying your HD800 I hope. My son brought back the HD800 today and when I plug it into the Studio Six, it's electrifying. Am I the only one who love the unique tone of the HD800?  

Enjoy and no going out !


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## mike1953

Hope everyone is well and safe in these very weird times. The reason for posting is I'm getting a hum when using the Euforia. I only notice it when using either my Utopias (104dB sensitivity) or Stellia's (106dB sensitivity) not when I use my HEKV2's (90dB sensitivity). It's not volume related and doesn't seem to be mains related - I get it whether using a basic Supra distribution block or my Puritan PSM156. Any thoughts?
thanks, Mike


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## chrisdrop

mike1953 said:


> Hope everyone is well and safe in these very weird times. The reason for posting is I'm getting a hum when using the Euforia. I only notice it when using either my Utopias (104dB sensitivity) or Stellia's (106dB sensitivity) not when I use my HEKV2's (90dB sensitivity). It's not volume related and doesn't seem to be mains related - I get it whether using a basic Supra distribution block or my Puritan PSM156. Any thoughts?
> thanks, Mike


I had a journey on this topic, catalogued here. First port of call: try some isolation feet. Sometimes the transformer can wobble and make noise in the valves due to the small movements. I started by chopping 2x tennis balls in half and putting them under the amp feet. You can also just quickly see: put headphones on, hear the hum. Lift the amp off the surface it is on (gently!) and see if the hum is the same or gone. As my ranty ref above says, it can be many things, unfortunately. Good luck to you.


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## connieflyer (Apr 11, 2020)

Hello UT, nice to see you here again,has been awhile. Yes, the GU50's have brought a new dimension to the Euforia.  We can thank H for that, the Gu50 I find a little more open,and almost too much on the treble area, but extremely clear and concise. Since that last photo, I swapped the KT77 to the driver position and the quad of GU50 as powers. Better, so then tried a pair of KenRad VT 232 black, and liked this even better. Lowered the treble some made the response more U shaped and more enjoyable. This morning I rolled in the PSvane that came stock with the unit and found it flattened the signal a little more. Of the last two as drivers I think I like the KR better. but will give this combo a couple more hours.


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## connieflyer (Apr 11, 2020)

UntilThen said:


> Wow @connieflyer that looks like a chemistry lab with those blue coloured tubes.  I'm amazed at how Euforia has evolved here but hey it's all in the interest of enjoyment. Still enjoying your HD800 I hope. My son brought back the HD800 today and when I plug it into the Studio Six, it's electrifying. Am I the only one who love the unique tone of the HD800?
> 
> Enjoy and no going out !


UT, am still enjoying the HD800, they are my main phones. I have tried a few others and like them the best. Have had the Senn 650, 700, HiFiman 400i, 560, and the Empreyeans but these I sent back as the bass, on this particular phone distorted at the bottom. Were a little warm for my liking. H loves his, so that comes down to personal choice, and perhaps if mine did not have the distortion I would have gotten to enjoy them more. But always come back to the 800. Have a friend that was into phones for a few years, was over for some music demo. When he tried on the 800, you could see that wow factor on his face, and knew he was lost! I ended up buying a gently used pair, and gave him mine. They are a special phone, you need to give them a little time, and they reveal so much of the music. The blue comes from the adapters that H made, and he inserted a blue led in the bottom of the sockets.  Pretty cool.  H made the dual adapters as well. Great job too. Hope you and the family are doing well with this virus. Nasty stuff.  Have not heard on the news any more about the fires over your way, since with the media once they get some news they beat it to death, and nothing else matters. Take good care my friend.


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## mike1953

chrisdrop said:


> I had a journey on this topic, catalogued here. First port of call: try some isolation feet. Sometimes the transformer can wobble and make noise in the valves due to the small movements. I started by chopping 2x tennis balls in half and putting them under the amp feet. You can also just quickly see: put headphones on, hear the hum. Lift the amp off the surface it is on (gently!) and see if the hum is the same or gone. As my ranty ref above says, it can be many things, unfortunately. Good luck to you.


Wow that really was some journey you went on! Sounds like the APC LE12001 may be the way to go OR I could stop using sensitive headphones ☹. It's annoying though - I was hoping that by investing in the Puritan PSM156 I could avoid issues like this.


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## connieflyer

It might also be a ground loop. Do a search on google for it, lots of solutions. I have had them, not fun.  I had one a few years ago with my Euforia used as a pre amp out to main music system. Finally bought an isolation transformer, to place in the rca line outs, and that took care of it. Prices range from a little to a lot, I would try one from Amazon and see if it works for you, I bought this one on a recommendation from another forum, and it worked fine.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQUZDU6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  if it does not work for you, or if want to spend more money at least you know you can return it.


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## mike1953

connieflyer said:


> It might also be a ground loop. Do a search on google for it, lots of solutions. I have had them, not fun.  I had one a few years ago with my Euforia used as a pre amp out to main music system. Finally bought an isolation transformer, to place in the rca line outs, and that took care of it. Prices range from a little to a lot, I would try one from Amazon and see if it works for you, I bought this one on a recommendation from another forum, and it worked fine.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQUZDU6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  if it does not work for you, or if want to spend more money at least you know you can return it.


I went through this with my phono-amp - bloody nightmare!


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## chrisdrop

mike1953 said:


> Puritan PSM156


Mike from Puritan was very helpful to me while investigating all of that. That is a solid product. Power is a pain. 
In the end, I am using a powerinspired regenerator and it is great (replaced the APC). 
As others have said, it can be many things so don't give up, experiment. 
Also, to be clear; It might be none of what I had.
It could be your valves are microphonic. Are they NOS valves? Have you tried changing them?


----------



## mike1953

chrisdrop said:


> Mike from Puritan was very helpful to me while investigating all of that. That is a solid product. Power is a pain.
> In the end, I am using a powerinspired regenerator and it is great (replaced the APC).
> As others have said, it can be many things so don't give up, experiment.
> Also, to be clear; It might be none of what I had.
> It could be your valves are microphonic. Are they NOS valves? Have you tried changing them?


Yes the valves are NOS - I've got a few spares which I'll try as well.


----------



## mike1953

Toal silence - hum gone! I've swapped tubes and now have GEC 6550A Drivers & KT66 Power. Amp seems to be running fine. Tried various other combos without any luck. Will experiment further.


----------



## chrisdrop

mike1953 said:


> Toal silence - hum gone! I've swapped tubes and now have GEC 6550A Drivers & KT66 Power. Amp seems to be running fine. Tried various other combos without any luck. Will experiment further.


Excellent. Congrats on being hum-free.
After my saga ended, I called my amp "Humphrey" for a while. Currently, he is colloquially referred to as "Ampy" however. 

On another note; I am entirely neglecting the nice London weather today. I hope you are doing better than me  Listening too good to go outside...


----------



## mike1953

chrisdrop said:


> Excellent. Congrats on being hum-free.
> After my saga ended, I called my amp "Humphrey" for a while. Currently, he is colloquially referred to as "Ampy" however.
> 
> On another note; I am entirely neglecting the nice London weather today. I hope you are doing better than me  Listening too good to go outside...


I'm in Whitstable so I've done the beach walk today - off to the garden now (or should I also play more music......?).


----------



## barontan2418

mike1953 said:


> I'm in Whitstable so I've done the beach walk today - off to the garden now (or should I also play more music......?).




Do both.


----------



## connieflyer

Journey continues with the Gu50's, went back to a pair of Gu50 power and a pair of Psvanes drivers.  Sounds just about as good, if not the same as a quad of Gu50's as powers.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Journey continues with the Gu50's, went back to a pair of Gu50 power and a pair of Psvanes drivers.  Sounds just about as good, if not the same as a quad of Gu50's as powers.


I've been following a similar journey CF. Best for me so far are 2 x (old) GEC KT66'S in the driver position and 4 x GU50's across the power position. I've recently tried GE 6550A's as drivers which produced some excellent bass and decent mid's. I'm running Elise on 2 x GE 7581's as drivers and the GE 6550A's in the power position, this combination I believe is the best yet and placing it not too far behind Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

Nice find, I will have to try that. Although I did try it with a pair of kt77 and a quad of gu 50 and wild good I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. The 7581 oh, I used to run a quad of those in the eforia and I like that quite well also. Going to try swapping in a pair of those with the GU 50s. Thanks for reminding me


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 13, 2020)

*..................................................................................................HAPPY EASTER* guys................and hope you're all keeping virus-free, along with loved ones.

Nice to see so many variations of GU50/KT/conventional tubes bringing satisfactory results for folks...certainly spoilt for choice now methinks lol!  And nice to hear from you down under once more @UntilThen . Like yourself, I too have moved into new territory, but am missing the anticipation/excitement/satisfaction of tube experimentation with Euforia.
However, given various life factors, I'm now happy for the less frenetic immersion in the tube-free land of Chord's Hugo TT2 marvel...an eye (or should that be _ear?!_) opener to say the least, even if a costly one! And much as I loved my Empyreans with Euforia (as per @connieflyer) they truly excel in the TT2...(but they do really need an upgraded cable, preferably clad with single crystal OCC silver and copper wires).

And @mike1953 , sorry to hear of your encounter with the dreaded hum monster. But glad you found some tubes that help, and hope you manage to find and eliminate the culprit entirely.

And well done @richard89 , I wish you lots of joy with your own Euforia...not to mention the endless tube possibilities before you lol! 

And I wish all Euforia owners continued HAPPY LISTENING!...including your own tube experimentations!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> And nice to hear from you down under once more @UntilThen . Like yourself, I too have moved into new territory, but am missing the anticipation/excitement/satisfaction of tube experimentation with Euforia.
> However, given various life factors, I'm now happy for the less frenetic immersion in the tube-free land of Chord's Hugo TT2 marvel...an eye (or should that be _ear?!_) opener to say the least, even if a costly one!



Haha H1, this hobby has bitten hard I see. The Hugo TT2 will be a big step up. Enjoy. The journey is coming to an end for me because I'm tired of upgrading and the zeal for Head-Fi is wearing off.  

So I'm left with these for the lockdown and the long haul.


----------



## LoryWiv

UntilThen said:


> Haha H1, this hobby has bitten hard I see. The Hugo TT2 will be a big step up. Enjoy. The journey is coming to an end for me because I'm tired of upgrading and the zeal for Head-Fi is wearing off.
> 
> So I'm left with these for the lockdown and the long haul.


Nice gear @UntilThen, your zeal served you well while it was strong. If one has to lockdown with music as a companion, I think you are in a good position as is.

Enjoy the music and stay safe!


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Haha H1, this hobby has bitten hard I see. The Hugo TT2 will be a big step up. Enjoy. The journey is coming to an end for me because I'm tired of upgrading and the zeal for Head-Fi is wearing off.
> 
> So I'm left with these for the lockdown and the long haul.


Hi UT,
So what's next? A bike? Orchids? Or a Citation to drive your speakers lol......


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> Nice gear @UntilThen, your zeal served you well while it was strong. If one has to lockdown with music as a companion, I think you are in a good position as is.
> 
> Enjoy the music and stay safe!



Thank you. You too. Stay safe and enjoy the music. Elise has been a feisty tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> So what's next? A bike? Orchids? Or a Citation to drive your speakers lol......



I'll buy a wireless earbud for my iPhone 11 Pro Max and take up marathon running.  

Who knows... if we recover from this pandemic.


----------



## connieflyer

UT, does not look like you will be too bored during lockdown!  Nicely done.Good to hear you have not lost your sense of humor.  Have a few more combos to try with the quad GU50's yet. Using the GL KT66 as drivers now.  The 66's seem to provide more of a balance with the quad than the KT77's did.  Going to swap in the 7581's next,and then the KT88's.  So far I am liking these the best so far they give a little more treble, instruments like the triangle come in to their own, so will stick with this for awhile and give it a good run.
.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> UT, does not look like you will be too bored during lockdown!  Nicely done.Good to hear you have not lost your sense of humor.  Have a few more combos to try with the quad GU50's yet. Using the GL KT66 as drivers now.  The 66's seem to provide more of a balance with the quad than the KT77's did.  Going to swap in the 7581's next,and then the KT88's.  So far I am liking these the best so far they give a little more treble, instruments like the triangle come in to their own, so will stick with this for awhile and give it a good run.
> .



Looking good cf...it'll be interesting to see what you make of the duo KT88/GU50 power combo when Deyan's KT adapters (hopefully!) arrive, driven by GU50s. Was certainly the best setup for my system anyways lol ...

ps. I notice you have the dual adapters placed opposite to mine...does that work better for you mon ami? Keep up the good work...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Hello h, as far as the Dual adapters being opposite of yours I placed them according to your instructions and the markings on the adapter itself there's one Mark R1 Mark L and that's the way I installed them. If yours been towards the front and mine towards the back I would have to guess that if there's any benefit heatwise it would be towards the back so that it didn't radiates on the driver tubes. Of course having them towards the back they radiate their heat towards the Transformer but having run mine for three or four hours at a time the Transformer casing is barely warm so I don't consider that a problem. Although I must say these tubes do get quite hot I made the mistake of touching one with the back of my finger one time I won't do that again so far I'm enjoying the 66 more than the other tubes that I have tested going to get this one another day or two and then go to the 7581 that's also a great sounding tube I ran a quad of those at one time over 200 hours. Then after that I'm going to try the Katy 88 tubes and possibly some really good 6s and 7 NOS tubes from the forties and 50s. I've already tried the kenrad BT 232 and liked it quite well. Hope you and the family are doing well and trying not to get in each other's way. I know it's hard to let loose using it as a preamp, but for myself I don't have that problem! I can shake the walls if I like oh, and I do like sometimes!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello h, as far as the Dual adapters being opposite of yours I placed them according to your instructions and the markings on the adapter itself there's one Mark R1 Mark L and that's the way I installed them. If yours been towards the front and mine towards the back I would have to guess that if there's any benefit heatwise it would be towards the back so that it didn't radiates on the driver tubes. Of course having them towards the back they radiate their heat towards the Transformer but having run mine for three or four hours at a time the Transformer casing is barely warm so I don't consider that a problem. Although I must say these tubes do get quite hot I made the mistake of touching one with the back of my finger one time I won't do that again so far I'm enjoying the 66 more than the other tubes that I have tested going to get this one another day or two and then go to the 7581 that's also a great sounding tube I ran a quad of those at one time over 200 hours. Then after that I'm going to try the Katy 88 tubes and possibly some really good 6s and 7 NOS tubes from the forties and 50s. I've already tried the kenrad BT 232 and liked it quite well. Hope you and the family are doing well and trying not to get in each other's way. I know it's hard to let loose using it as a preamp, but for myself I don't have that problem! I can shake the walls if I like oh, and I do like sometimes!



Right-o cf...sorry, looks like I must have been cross-eyed when I put the stickers on lol!  So, place them as suits you best...and yes, no problem having the tubes closer to the trafo or behind the drivers . You certainly are giving different combos a good trial, but remember that when changing from 'alternative' tubes to conventional, and vice versa, it can take quite a long while before the amp settles back down to the tubes' best performance...

ps. Now I know for sure this hobby has driven me totally insane (or could it be this darned virus?!)...have just ordered a Chord m-scaler to partner the TT2. Am awaiting the men in white coats as I speak lol . And if this lot doesn't have my Euforia as pre-amp performing miracles, then you have my permission to make sure they throw away the key!! ...CHEERS!...(a still shaking CJ)...


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Now I know for sure this hobby has driven me totally insane (or could it be this darned virus?!)...have just ordered a Chord m-scaler to partner the TT2. Am awaiting the men in white coats as I speak lol . And if this lot doesn't have my Euforia as pre-amp performing miracles, then you have my permission to make sure they throw away the key!! ...CHEERS!...(a still shaking CJ)...



Told you...


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Told you...



Ah, so I can blame you OH if (when!!) the better half ever finds out just how much I've spent in less than a fortnight lol!  ....

ps....Still shaking .......


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, so I can blame you OH if (when!!) the better half ever finds out just how much I've spent in less than a fortnight lol!  ....
> 
> ps....Still shaking .......



Well, for that not, but you can blame me for my further advices:

At this point in time, when you will soon have an M-Scaler for your TT2 you definitely need some good dual BNC cables and 2 linear power supplies for both TT2 and M-Scaler.
Then you might be fine for a period of time, in which you can think about Dave. 

PS. When you receive it, if you can, it would be interesting to try an M-Scaler + Hugo 2 vs M-Scaler + TT2. But for connection to Hugo 2 things are not as simple because I think you'll need an adapter from 2 x BNC -> Coax (?) to be able to link them?


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 14, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> Well, for that not, but you can blame me for my further advices:
> 
> At this point in time, when you will soon have an M-Scaler for your TT2 you definitely need some good dual BNC cables and 2 linear power supplies for both TT2 and M-Scaler.
> Then you might be fine for a period of time, in which you can think about Dave.
> ...



Ahead of you there OH...will be making my own BNC cables for the m-scaler, as I've done for TT2...using UP-OCC silver and copper wires. And have a LPS (120VA) on the way...just one, mind you (Mr Watts cites a pretty good case for not using a Linear for the m scaler at least). However, the one would be powerful enough for both units, just to experiment lol! 

And re. H2 + m scaler vs TT2 +, I'm afraid it's too much hassle, due to having to use an alternative method for H2's analog out (the inset RCA sockets being ridiculously confined such that most good phono plugs wouldn't fit!! ). Plus, its digital input is a 3.5mm jack as opposed to the better BNC. But for what it's worth, my m-scaler and TT2 supplier said the only negative comment he's had re. the scaler was from someone disappointed with his results from partnering a..._Qutest!_ ...

ps. Still haven't been able to reinstate my T1's hp cable either I'm afraid...

pps. TT2 + m-scaler will be close enough to Dave for me...especially with the scaler having 1 million taps vs Dave's 164,000 lol...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Now I know for sure this hobby has driven me totally insane (or could it be this darned virus?!)...have just ordered a Chord m-scaler to partner the TT2. Am awaiting the men in white coats as I speak lol . And if this lot doesn't have my Euforia as pre-amp performing miracles, then you have my permission to make sure they throw away the key!!



Totally rational behaviour. Congrats on the TT2 + M-Scaler.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> UT, does not look like you will be too bored during lockdown! Nicely done.Good to hear you have not lost your sense of humor. Have a few more combos to try with the quad GU50's yet. Using the GL KT66 as drivers now. The 66's seem to provide more of a balance with the quad than the KT77's did. Going to swap in the 7581's next,and then the KT88's. So far I am liking these the best so far they give a little more treble, instruments like the triangle come in to their own, so will stick with this for awhile and give it a good run.



CF, you're having a lot of fun. I have no idea how that sound but I bet it's good.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 14, 2020)

https://www.businessinsider.com/best-dacs?amp

Check out this article... If I wasn't working so much I would have had time to call them out for such a subjective reporting on which is the "best" DAC, well it is from Business Insider, so who knows what kind of business incentives they may have, maybe someone else will call them out on this, LOL.


----------



## attmci

hypnos1 said:


> Ah, so I can blame you OH if (when!!) the better half ever finds out just how much I've spent in less than a fortnight lol!  ....
> 
> ps....Still shaking .......


Congrats on the M-S, and a Dave in a couple of months.


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 14, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> Right-o cf...sorry, looks like I must have been cross-eyed when I put the stickers on lol!  So, place them as suits you best...and yes, no problem having the tubes closer to the trafo or behind the drivers . You certainly are giving different combos a good trial, but remember that when changing from 'alternative' tubes to conventional, and vice versa, it can take quite a long while before the amp settles back down to the tubes' best performance...
> 
> ps. Now I know for sure this hobby has driven me totally insane (or could it be this darned virus?!)...have just ordered a Chord m-scaler to partner the TT2. Am awaiting the men in white coats as I speak lol . And if this lot doesn't have my Euforia as pre-amp performing miracles, then you have my permission to make sure they throw away the key!! ...CHEERS!...(a still shaking CJ)...



Giving the different combos lots of time, seems that is all there is to do for now!  I am getting a lot of use out of the pre amp.  Sounding very good indeed. Heard back from Lukasz, due to the "situation" production is slowed and is slotted for production, but not till the end of April now. Don't worry about he white coats, they may only be virus checkers!  Good for you helping to keep the economy going!


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Totally rational behaviour. Congrats on the TT2 + M-Scaler.



Thanks for the reassurance UT...but too late I'm afraid...at least I'm going down with a _very_ big smile on my face lol ...


attmci said:


> Congrats on the M-S, and a Dave in a couple of months.



Thanks attmci...but beware, you could just be nearing the top of my hit list!!  And my adopted meditation mantra will not be 'Om' (er. O*h*m would be more appropriate lol?!), but _*No*m..._...(assuming temptation gets no worse, that is!! ).



connieflyer said:


> Giving the different combos lots of time, seems that is all there is to do for now!  I am getting a lot of use out of the pre amp.  Sounding very good indeed. Heard back from Lukasz, due to the "situation" production is slowed and is slotted for production, but not till the end of April now. Don't worry about he white coats, they may only be virus checkers!  Good for you helping to keep the economy going!



This current situation does indeed allow for more quality listening (or _testing) _time to be sure cf...even if less _income_ time alas! 

And sorry to hear of the delay in your AE Euforia...hope the patience doesn't run out lol!  And bring on those white coats...so long as they let me take all my hp gear with me!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Hi UT,
> So what's next? A bike? Orchids? Or a Citation to drive your speakers lol......



Honestly when you ask that question, there was no next on my mind but yesterday I decided to jump on a mint condition Burson Conductor Virtuoso V2+ for a little under  US$500 - US477 to be precise.

Why? Because I thought that an all in one Pre-amp/Amp/DAC can be handy and this one was a beast in it's time.

Sorry for the digression all.


----------



## richard89

Hi all, I have recently got my hands on the Euforia and wanted to begin tube rolling more. The ones that I'd like to start with are EL32, EL11, EL38, and even the KT66/88 that I've heard has been mentioned. Does anyone have recommendations on which ones I should be buying from eBay?

Thanks,
Richard


----------



## connieflyer

I have all of these if you are interested


----------



## richard89

Wow awesome! I'm definitely interested.


----------



## connieflyer

Okay I will pm you tomorrow


----------



## richard89

Good deal , much appreciated @connieflyer.


----------



## connieflyer

You bet


----------



## richard89

I’m also guessing people would like to know my initial impressions of the Euforia. I’m currently using a Yulong D18, whose characteristics I’m not too familiar with except within context to the Yulong A18, to feed the Euforia. Based on a few listening sessions between the RCA 6AS7G, GEC 6080, and Bendix 6080 I will go ahead and say there is undeniable energy and capability to draw the emotion from a song. Neutral yet truly compelling is how I’d describe it.

I’m afraid to say that my sensitivity to treble means that I won’t get as much enjoyment from the amp as someone whose not as sensitive to treble.

The Euforia is a fun amp with good dynamics. At times I will sit there and when a certain note hits or a song that is dynamic comes on, I sit back and say wow, “this is really enjoyable, wait no, this is ACTUALLY REALLY good". The sound is “large”, “encompassing” and “pure (+tubey)”.


----------



## hypnos1

richard89 said:


> I’m also guessing people would like to know my initial impressions of the Euforia. I’m currently using a Yulong D18, whose characteristics I’m not too familiar with except within context to the Yulong A18, to feed the Euforia. Based on a few listening sessions between the RCA 6AS7G, GEC 6080, and Bendix 6080 I will go ahead and say there is undeniable energy and capability to draw the emotion from a song. Neutral yet truly compelling is how I’d describe it.
> 
> I’m afraid to say that my sensitivity to treble means that I won’t get as much enjoyment from the amp as someone whose not as sensitive to treble.
> 
> The Euforia is a fun amp with good dynamics. At times I will sit there and when a certain note hits or a song that is dynamic comes on, I sit back and say wow, “this is really enjoyable, wait no, this is ACTUALLY REALLY good". The sound is “large”, “encompassing” and “pure (+tubey)”.



Hi r89. Glad to hear you're liking Euforia already...and her charms will become even more evident as time goes by.

That sure is a b**mer re. your treble hearing issue...this is indeed the frequency range where 'sparkle' _and_ finesse really do lift performance to new heights, in _good_ gear at least lol!  Good bass and full mids are also of course vitally important!! Still, I'm quite sure that experimenting with different combos of both conventional and 'unorthodox(!)' tubes will - along with other attributes - bring a treble that is both very satisfying_ and _kind to your ears!
@connieflyer should indeed have a good selection for you, and much more reliable than many on ebay...plus already painstakingly burned in where necessary. And if switching between 'normal' and 'other' tubes, please remember that often it will take quite a while for the amp to 'readjust' to them before performing at their best...a good few hours at least, preferably with a cooling off period inbetween a couple of sessions...

So, GOOD LUCK and much continued enjoyment...CJ


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 17, 2020)

richard89 said:


> I’m also guessing people would like to know my initial impressions of the Euforia. I’m currently using a Yulong D18, whose characteristics I’m not too familiar with except within context to the Yulong A18, to feed the Euforia. Based on a few listening sessions between the RCA 6AS7G, GEC 6080, and Bendix 6080 I will go ahead and say there is undeniable energy and capability to draw the emotion from a song. Neutral yet truly compelling is how I’d describe it.
> 
> I’m afraid to say that my sensitivity to treble means that I won’t get as much enjoyment from the amp as someone whose not as sensitive to treble.
> 
> The Euforia is a fun amp with good dynamics. At times I will sit there and when a certain note hits or a song that is dynamic comes on, I sit back and say wow, “this is really enjoyable, wait no, this is ACTUALLY REALLY good". The sound is “large”, “encompassing” and “pure (+tubey)”.


That's awesome that you're diggin' my Euforia Richard! And now any doubts any of us may have had that all my 3rd party even unorthodox tube rolling may have harmed the amp can be brushed under the carpet, because I had indeed taken a good few precautions (using socket savers, staying within the max. current draw, avoiding 6336 tubes, correct adapters, using a small fan when needed, etc.). And just to think Richard you're only using the Euforia v1 and so far only with stock class tubes. It only gets better from here!

Richard will also be able to try many 3rd party tubes with a big stash of unneeded adapters I've just mailed him. Adapters for every type we've used except for GU50 which I hadn't got around to. And @connieflyer is this why you're willing to part with so many tubes because you like those the best?

I also told him he can use the 6L6 adapters for 7581 / A, KT66, KT88, KT150, 6L6, (but KT88 and KT150 are for powers only). And will this adapter also work for KT77 and EL34? I see many people around here loving the Genalex Gold Lion KT66 powers with KT77 drivers (but for that you would need 2 more adapters).


----------



## DecentLevi

@richard89 my top recommendation for treble sensitivity would go to the EL32 tubes as drivers - especially the ST-shaped ones. These have a very natural and non-fatiguing tone with a sweet, detailed yet non harsh treble. But alas these are fairly scarce and not cheap so you would have to scour dark corners of the web (try Hifishark and Geo-ship) to find a good deal. I've also got a feeling somehow KT77 and EL34 may have a similar sound - but only from what I've read having not tried them yet.


----------



## richard89

Hi Levi, would these be good? https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VACUU...802754?hash=item2891ccb0c2:g:2XcAAOSwOQJejihQ


----------



## richard89

DecentLevi said:


> That's awesome that you're diggin' my Euforia Richard! And now any doubts any of us may have had that all my 3rd party even unorthodox tube rolling may have harmed the amp can be brushed under the carpet, because I had indeed taken a good few precautions (using socket savers, staying within the max. current draw, avoiding 6336 tubes, correct adapters, using a small fan when needed, etc.). And just to think Richard you're only using the Euforia v1 and so far only with stock class tubes. It only gets better from here!
> 
> Richard will also be able to try many 3rd party tubes with a big stash of unneeded adapters I've just mailed him. Adapters for every type we've used except for GU50 which I hadn't got around to. And @connieflyer is this why you're willing to part with so many tubes because you like those the best?
> 
> I also told him he can use the 6L6 adapters for 7581 / A, KT66, KT88, KT150, 6L6, (but KT88 and KT150 are for powers only). And will this adapter also work for KT77 and EL34? I see many people around here loving the Genalex Gold Lion KT66 powers with KT77 drivers (but for that you would need 2 more adapters).



I am indeed enjoying the Euforia so far, it is a very capable amp. Treble sensitivity has been a thing for me for as far as I can remember. I can still enjoy it, but it's at very low volumes it seems. It's a shame, I can't really crank up the volume on it.


----------



## richard89 (Apr 17, 2020)

So just now I've been able to crank the volume up a bit without any fatigue, to my surprise. To add to my earlier impressions, I'd like to say that I'm not sure how explain the Euforia. I think as time goes by I'll be able to describe it better, but for now, I think something I can say that people can agree with that is that the Euforia, (using the RCA 6AS7G as powers and  RCA 6SN7 as drivers) sounds just.. musical. It's presents a satisfying sound. Just now listening, mids are extending great, and atmosphere is full. It's kind of just about what I expect from the Euforia as I get to know it more, it's a good name for the product.


----------



## DecentLevi

richard89 said:


> Hi Levi, would these be good? https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL32-VACUU...802754?hash=item2891ccb0c2:g:2XcAAOSwOQJejihQ


WOW you've struck a goldmine there! Those EL32's are a STEAL deal - and the fact that there are 8x, these are tested and look in good condition is icing on the cake. You and any others looking for EL32's should go for it.


----------



## LoryWiv

DecentLevi said:


> That's awesome that you're diggin' my Euforia Richard! And now any doubts any of us may have had that all my 3rd party even unorthodox tube rolling may have harmed the amp can be brushed under the carpet, because I had indeed taken a good few precautions (using socket savers, staying within the max. current draw, avoiding 6336 tubes, correct adapters, using a small fan when needed, etc.). And just to think Richard you're only using the Euforia v1 and so far only with stock class tubes. It only gets better from here!
> 
> Richard will also be able to try many 3rd party tubes with a big stash of unneeded adapters I've just mailed him. Adapters for every type we've used except for GU50 which I hadn't got around to. And @connieflyer is this why you're willing to part with so many tubes because you like those the best?
> 
> I also told him he can use the 6L6 adapters for 7581 / A, KT66, KT88, KT150, 6L6, (but* KT88 and KT150 are for powers only*). And will this adapter also work for KT77 and EL34? I see many people around here loving the Genalex Gold Lion KT66 powers with KT77 drivers (but for that you would need 2 more adapters).


@DecentLevi, not certain what you mean underlined above. I run a quad of KT88's in both power and driver positions on Elise, very compatible and to date my favorite longterm tube set.


----------



## DecentLevi

Generally speaking larger / higher current draw tubes are supposed to be used as powers on the Elise/Euforia such as with the 6AS7 in the back and the 6SN7 in the front. My experience has been that smaller tubes in general work better in the front to essentially tighten up the sound from the power tubes; I've tried larger ones in the front such as EL12, KT66 and EL39 and the sound was always too loose / muddy for me, though I haven't tried the KT88 or 150 yet so your results may be different than expected.


----------



## barontan2418 (Apr 18, 2020)

Just had my first tube go on me after two years of tube rolling. Red flashing followed by a load of loud crackling. It was a GU50 to, such a strong looking tube. Like a daft bugger I tried it once more after removing and replacing it but same results again. Luckily having replaced the GU50 with a spare all seems to be fine both with Euforia and my precious HD800's. Still sounds marvelous. 😲😃


----------



## hypnos1 (Apr 18, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Just had my first tube go on me after two years of tube rolling. Red flashing followed by a load of loud crackling. It was a GU50 to, such a strong looking tube. Like a daft bugger I tried it once more after removing and replacing it but same results again. Luckily having replaced the GU50 with a spare all seems to be fine both with Euforia and my precious HD800's. Still sounds marvelous. 😲😃



Hi bt...wow, that is a strange one. Was it brand new? Not one of those used ones I saw on ebay once, I hope! If NOS, most unexpected for a Russian military tube. But hey, this is tubeland...nothing is ever 100% predictable alas! 

However, really glad it didn't do any damage. And yes, mon ami, if ever a tube does anything vaguely similar - often _blue_ flashes, or ominous crackling not due to poor/dirty tube connection - _*bin it straight away lol!! *_

ps. If ever you want some more, just PM me...

And glad you could get back to GU50 goodness so quickly......long may it continue...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi bt...wow, that is a strange one. Was it brand new? Not one of those used ones I saw on ebay once, I hope! If NOS, most unexpected for a Russian military tube. But hey, this is tubeland...nothing is ever 100% predictable alas!
> 
> However, really glad it didn't do any damage. And yes, mon ami, if ever a tube does anything vaguely similar - often _blue_ flashes, or ominous crackling not due to poor/dirty tube connection - _*bin it straight away lol!! *_
> 
> ...



Thanks H1. No I only bought NOS GU 50's but as you say the unexpected can always happen
I'm down to my last GU 50 spare and have two further Chinese versions at a push. As you say, tube has been dispatched.


----------



## connieflyer

DecentLevi said:


> WOW you've struck a goldmine there! Those EL32's are a STEAL deal - and the fact that there are 8x, these are tested and look in good condition is icing on the cake. You and any others looking for EL32's should go for it.


These sound good, but this is a better value, I bought a bunch of these Marconi tubes and liked them better. VT52 is a direct replacement also.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...112951&hash=item1a0b812dcd:g:VnkAAOSwiYRarGRd


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## connieflyer

GU 50 mate continues, I really liked the KT66 as drivers with the quad of GU50's. Really opened up the sound, have switched after about 50 hours to the Gold Lion KT88 for drivers, and after about 12 hours of combined headphone and pre amp use, these are the keepers for me.  Checks all the boxes.


----------



## barontan2418

Looking good CF and obviously sounding great. I've exchanged my KK66 drivers for GE 7581A's and replaced two of the GU50's on the back row with GE 6550A's. This combination is producing a sound to behold, great depth and placement, strong bass and mids that are making vocals truly outstanding. Need a few hours of classical before labeling this combo my final, plus I've 2 x Tung sol 6550's on the way which are reputed to better the GE's. Wish I could afford a pair of GEC KT88's but they are so expensive even for used tubes.


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## connieflyer

I have a quad I've 7581 and they are next in the rotation with the kt88. I really enjoyed the quad her 7581 it was definitely a great sound. Good luck with your combinations and keep us posted as how things are going


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## DecentLevi (Apr 19, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> These sound good, but this is a better value, I bought a bunch of these Marconi tubes and liked them better. VT52 is a direct replacement also.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...112951&hash=item1a0b812dcd:g:VnkAAOSwiYRarGRd


In this case the ST-shaped EL32's were a better value at $8 less. Myself and most others preferred the original ST-shaped ones for a more organic sound and possibly a sweeter treble, excellent for the likes of classic rock or classical. The straight shaped ones do have their merits,  perhaps especially rhythmic focused music. Different strokes for different folks.


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## connieflyer

The Marconi VT 52 were straight sided, but sounded better than the EL32, also better were the  CV 1952, with your preferred shape


----------



## OctavianH

Anyone knows why on the website the Anniversary Edition is missing? After all it is a different product.


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## connieflyer

Lukas told .me production has been slowed with this virus had to split shifts plus Easter, I ordered mine a few weeks ago and it is slotted by the end of the month for production why it is not on we site is unknown


----------



## Mh996

barontan2418 said:


> Just had my first tube go on me after two years of tube rolling. Red flashing followed by a load of loud crackling. It was a GU50 to, such a strong looking tube. Like a daft bugger I tried it once more after removing and replacing it but same results again. Luckily having replaced the GU50 with a spare all seems to be fine both with Euforia and my precious HD800's. Still sounds marvelous. 😲😃



I'm happy your Euforia and HD800 survived. I had an EL39 fail on me in December. No loud popping, but a brief crackling before the channel cut out. I know the chances of a tube taking out a driver as it dies is low, but that did scare me!


----------



## connieflyer

OctavianH said:


> Anyone knows why on the website the Anniversary Edition is missing? After all it is a different product.



Still on the front page  http://feliksaudio.pl/ 
Still for sale in the US  https://upscaleaudio.com/collection...niversary-special-edition-headphone-amplifier


----------



## connieflyer

barontan2416, tried the Gu50 powers and Ts 7581's in driver, sounds great, going to try a pair of KT88 and Gu50's with the ts7581 next.  Also may try a pair of 7581 and Gu 50 power with the 7581 for driver.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> barontan2416, tried the Gu50 powers and Ts 7581's in driver, sounds great, going to try a pair of KT88 and Gu50's with the ts7581 next.  Also may try a pair of 7581 and Gu 50 power with the 7581 for driver.



So many combinations, KT88's alongside GU50's and driven by 7581's is certainly an excellent one.


Hope you enjoy.


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## OctavianH

connieflyer said:


> Still on the front page  http://feliksaudio.pl/
> Still for sale in the US  https://upscaleaudio.com/collection...niversary-special-edition-headphone-amplifier



Yes, but on the Products page is missing, here:
http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php


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## connieflyer

For a better answer you would have to contact Lukasz. Perhaps software problem, no way to tell with out asking him or Micheal.  If I remember, I will ask him, was going to contact him anyways about the 2A3 amp.


----------



## connieflyer

Still no sign of adapters I ordered, so went back to special adapters and tubes created by CJ.  EL38's drivers.  Excellent. Listening to Braveheart, seven in the morning I am sure my neighbors love this to wake up to .Powerful bass. Very solid performers. So far the tubes as drivers for the GU50 are the KT77, which were one of my favorites before this,and not that it was bad, just not as good. The GU 50 seem to perform very well with most tubes I have used with them.


----------



## connieflyer

[IMG alt="OctavianH"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/441/441178.jpg?1569952539[/IMG]          

OctavianH
I sent an email to Lukasz about the Anniversary web page and will let you know what I hear.


----------



## connieflyer

Reply from Feliks Audio concerning Anniversary amp...........................................
Hello
Thank you for your email. Yes, it's still available , our website is under revision and the product will be there back soon. Due to overwhelming demand we decided to keep it as permanent part of line up, both regular and Anniversary Euforias will be available together.

Regards

*Feliks Audio* - handcrafted tube amplifiers

www.feliksaudio.pl


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## OctavianH

Many thanks, so the mistery has been clarified. Overwhelming demand seems to mean that a lot of people are ordering it, despite the price.


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## connieflyer

Would seem to be so.  Mine is scheduled to be manufactured end of this month


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## richard89 (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi all. Hope you are all doing well. A tube EL32 came in today and I noticed it's having static issues. It sounds like it's having trouble. Does the static go away with burn in? It's like constant tapping noise.

Edit: I've seated it properly and the noise is not as prominent but still seems to linger.

Edit2: Seems like there is some corrosion on the top anode.


----------



## richard89

I noticed that Levi said that Bendix 6080 / EL38 combo goes over voltage. Is there a resource I can go to check the current draw of the tubes? Last thing I want to do is to go over. Are all 6080's the same current draw? Right now I'm warming up the Bendix 6080 / EL32, is this within the current draw?


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## barontan2418

richard89 said:


> I noticed that Levi said that Bendix 6080 / EL38 combo goes over voltage. Is there a resource I can go to check the current draw of the tubes? Last thing I want to do is to go over. Are all 6080's the same current draw? Right now I'm warming up the Bendix 6080 / EL32, is this within the current draw?




Hope this helps.


----------



## richard89 (Apr 25, 2020)

Thanks for that @barontan2418. I simply cannot wait to get a pair of good EL32's. My first impressions of them is that it opened up the soundstage by pushing back the mid's. It sounded reminiscent of my Yulong A18, although I believe the Yulong A18 has a deeper soundstage, the EL32's were not bad, at all! It added a different characteristic, which caught me by surprise, I didn't think the drivers would change the sound that much, but I was much impressed! Everything was mellower, deeper, weightier, with good bass extension coupled a sweeter, more softer tone, which makes it awesome for longer listening sessions. I hear they pair well with EL38's, can't wait to try them out!

Hopefully I can get some impressions between the Euforia with the EL32 tubes and my Yulong A18, because it's very similar indeed!


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## connieflyer (Apr 29, 2020)

El 32s are fairly good midfi Tube the mullard El 38 are much better, of course if you really wanted a good el 38 you would have to find a pair of the Dario El 38 I like those the best of my EL38. Of course even better than those are the El 39, oh, good luck finding those have a pair of two. Just sold my single


----------



## mordy

richard89 said:


> Thanks for that @barontan2418. I simply cannot wait to get a pair of good EL32's. My first impressions of them is that it opened up the soundstage by pushing back the mid's. It sounded reminiscent of my Yulong A18, although I believe the Yulong A18 has a deeper soundstage, the EL32's were not bad, at all! It added a different characteristic, which caught me by surprise, I didn't think the drivers would change the sound that much, but I was much impressed! Everything was mellower, deeper, weightier, with good bass extension coupled a sweeter, more softer tone, which makes it awesome for longer listening sessions. I hear they pair well with EL38's, can't wait to try them out!
> 
> Hopefully I can get some impressions between the Euforia with the EL32 tubes and my Yulong A18, because it's very similar indeed!


Re the noisy EL32: First, make sure to take a little crazy glue and apply to the bottom of the anode cap where it meats the glass. There are available small containers of crazy glue with a little brush built into the cap and it takes just a few seconds to apply it.
Let dry for a day and then use a pen knife blade, scissors blade or anything (does not have to be sharp ) and gently scrape off the corrosion on the cap and pins.
This may help for the noises.
If no improvement a reputable seller should replace the tubes for you.
Good luck!


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## richard89 (Apr 26, 2020)

Was just listening to ADOY - Grace with the Bendix 6080 and EL32. What an enjoyable track to listen to with the EL32's, the two really complement each other. Very good spaciousness, liquidity, and presence.


----------



## richard89 (Apr 26, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> Hope this helps.



@barontan2418 would you also happen to have a chart like this for the KT66 and KT88?

Really enjoying the EL32 as drivers and GEC 6080 as powers right now. For Jazz music, it's great. Still I'd say missing that that deep 3D imaging and soundstage, but still enjoyable to my ears, could be that what I'm listening to doesn't naturally have a substantial soundstage. But nice, deep bass, making it rhythmic, and decent sense of spaciousness / air, not particularly great in this aspect, with a character of laidbackness. Good extension, hearing the notes fall away. The bass really takes the stage here to everything together rhythmically, hardhitting with good definition, coupled with a smooth treble. Awesome.


----------



## richard89

I was also wondering if the KT66 / EL38 / EL32 can be used as drivers and powers??


----------



## OctavianH

richard89 said:


> I was also wondering if the KT66 / EL38 / EL32 can be used as drivers and powers??



Yes, they can be used as powers and also as drivers but I do not remember that someone used EL38 as drivers. 
Here's the table including these (values taken from datasheets available on the internet):







Don't ask me why KT150 has a range... it was like this in the datasheet.


----------



## richard89

Thanks @OctavianH, I apologize if it’s been posted before. I’ll try in my own time to catch up with everything in this thread but there is a lot!


----------



## barontan2418 (Apr 27, 2020)

richard89 said:


> I was also wondering if the KT66 / EL38 / EL32 can be used as drivers and powers??


I think many of us have used all the above as powers at one time or another. I don't have data for KT tubes in list form but if you do a search asking for KT66/88 data sheet I'm sure you'll find that info. Happy listening.😉.
Sorry posted before I noticed the above had been answered.


----------



## Scutey

richard89 said:


> I was also wondering if the KT66 / EL38 / EL32 can be used as drivers and powers??


I'm using a pair of KT66 as drivers right now, being powered by a pair of Tung Sol 6550 and they sound fantastic, also use the EL32 as drivers, less keen on the EL38 as drivers, prefer them as powers.


----------



## richard89 (Apr 27, 2020)

O.K., this is what I was wanting, this is clearly step above the Yulong A18 in dynamics, size, engagement that I was wanting, and it's all apparent with the EL 38 as powers + EL 32 as drivers. That enveloping sound that I was looking for, it's very apparent here. It's nice. The combination that lifts everything up a level. .

This is the sound I was looking for, thank you to all who made it possible. I can't believe how well the HD-650's scale. While sounding mediocre on the LCD-2 rev 2's, the HD-650's really sing with the combination. I think something can be said about the sound-stage being a little lacking, the mids being a little forward still, but I have absolutely no complaints with whats coming from the aforementioned combination. It's really worthy of praise. The dramatic bass, hearing the extension, the detail. It's awesome, nothing like what I've ever heard before.


----------



## richard89 (Apr 27, 2020)

Looks like I spoke too soon and the treble blow back is beginning to come. I knew the clear highs and mid's couldn't be that good for no reason.

Edit: I did have an ear infection in this particular ear before, maybe it's worth checking it out now?


----------



## mordy

What is treble blow back? Sibilance?


----------



## richard89 (Apr 27, 2020)

Just the after effects of treble hurting my ear, but I have had an infection in this ear before, so it may be worth checking out before I call it harsh treble causing some sort of pain. In fact now that I remember... could very well be the cause, since it is only my left ear, and if it is, great!, all of my previous assertions may be true for ears that haven't seen issues.

I guess I'll stick to listening at lower volumes until I can get it checked out . Vocals are awesome with this combination, such great depth! It just adds that extra dimension, making everything airier.


----------



## DecentLevi (Apr 27, 2020)

richard89 said:


> O.K., this is what I was wanting, this is clearly step above the Yulong A18 in dynamics, size, engagement that I was wanting, and it's all apparent with the EL 38 as powers + EL 32 as drivers. That enveloping sound that I was looking for, it's very apparent here. It's nice. The combination that lifts everything up a level. .
> 
> This is the sound I was looking for, thank you to all who made it possible. I can't believe how well the HD-650's scale. While sounding mediocre on the LCD-2 rev 2's, the HD-650's really sing with the combination. I think something can be said about the sound-stage being a little lacking, the mids being a little forward still, but I have absolutely no complaints with whats coming from the aforementioned combination. It's really worthy of praise. The dramatic bass, hearing the extension, the detail. It's awesome, nothing like what I've ever heard before.



Oh, silly me, I remember at first you were asking for a tubey euphonic sound, so I should have recommended to EL38 earlier. Yep they're definitely velvety, tubey and somewhat holographic. Wouldn't quite compared them to the EL39s whitch are really in their own magic dimension of sorts. And I further can't compare it to any of the KT tubes, because the only one of those I have tried where the original GEC KT66s...

Also about the hd650. You bet them babies can scale, all the way to the moon so to speak. Just wait till you try those on top summit-fi amps and even upgrade to a silver aftermarket cable, or even the hd600s, which can sound more dynamic and has a larger soundstage & details due to the extra treble, but those may not be recommended if you have tinnitus.


----------



## richard89

DecentLevi said:


> Oh, silly me, I remember at first you were asking for a tubey euphonic sound, so I should have recommended to EL38 earlier. Yep they're definitely velvety, tubey and somewhat holographic. Wouldn't quite compared them to the EL39s whitch are really in their own magic dimension of sorts. And I further can't compare it to any of the KT tubes, because the only one of those I have tried where the original GEC KT66s...
> 
> Also about the hd650. You bet them babies can scale, all the way to the moon so to speak. Just wait till you try those on top summit-fi amps and even upgrade to a silver aftermarket cable, or even the hd600s, which can sound more dynamic and has a larger soundstage & details due to the extra treble, but those may not be recommended if you have tinnitus.


Levi, let me tell you, it really is great. It's all those things you said, adding that dreamy dimension to Vietnamese blues. I'm in love.


----------



## richard89

Hey all, was just wondering, I have a EL38 adapter that says "To 6SN7", would it be safe to put this in the 6AS7G slot on the Euforia?


----------



## Scutey

richard89 said:


> Hey all, was just wondering, I have a EL38 adapter that says "To 6SN7", would it be safe to put this in the 6AS7G slot on the Euforia?


Yes it's perfectly safe to use in the power (6as7g) slots.


----------



## richard89

Okay, thank you. I think EL 38 + EL 32 is the spot for me with the Euforia, guys and girls. I just got the KT66 and started listening on the LCD 2 rev 2, but found myself reaching back to the El 38 and El 32 combo. If anyone knows a better combo for that tubey "massive" encompassing sound please let me know.


----------



## connieflyer (May 2, 2020)

Takes time for tubes to burn in and reach full potential


----------



## Scutey

richard89 said:


> Okay, thank you. I think EL 38 + EL 32 is the spot for me with the Euforia, guys and girls. I just got the KT66 and started listening on the LCD 2 rev 2, but found myself reaching back to the El 38 and El 32 combo. If anyone knows a better combo for that tubey "massive" encompassing sound please let me know.


A favourite of mine is EL38 for powers with EL11for drivers, it's tubey, detailed,great bass and full bodied sound, I like it for classical, jazz, rock and metal.


----------



## richard89 (May 2, 2020)

Yeah, I think I will let the tubes burn in and then gather my impressions that way, the KT66's, to my ears, sound natural, mellow, and adds good definition.


----------



## aqsw

I love the 38s for the power slot. I use EL 3Ns for the drivers. Just live that sound . My opinion only. My son likes it a bit more detailed.


----------



## richard89 (May 1, 2020)

aqsw said:


> I love the 38s for the power slot. I use EL 3Ns for the drivers. Just live that sound . My opinion only. My son likes it a bit more detailed.


Have you tried the EL38's with EL32's as drivers? I would like to try the EL38's + EL3N's but I'm going to wait a few months for my pockets to recover before going out to get more tubes. Also wanting to try to quad EL38's. Yeah, I really enjoy the 38's for the power slot right now too.


----------



## connieflyer (May 2, 2020)

Best I have found of all combinations of KT tubes are the Kt77's as drivers and the KT88's as power.
     Current production EL34 tubes are true to the original Mullard pentode design.   Likewise, current production 6CA7 are beam forming tetrode like the original Sylvania design.  Tube manufacturers also re-issued KT77 in recent years.  The internal construction of current production KT77 resembles that of classic KT77.

    This makes current production EL34, 6CA7 and KT77 all sound noticeably different.  This allows us to try and pick the one that suits our tastes.


----------



## connieflyer

Deyan's adapters showed up today two are on the KT77's,  seem to work fine.  Sockets are not as tight as mrs.x's which is much better. Still tight enough for a good fit, not so tight as to damage tube removing it


----------



## aqsw

Hey Richard,
I have not tried the 32s as drivers. 
I used all el38  for quite awhile and really liked that setup, but I always return to the 3n drivers.A bit more tube sound with the
3ns. My son has tried those combos on the Elise I gave him and has settled on el38 powers and PSvane drivers. Everybody to their own.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Best I have found of all combinations of KT tubes are the Kt77's as drivers and the KT88's as power.
> Current production EL34 tubes are true to the original Mullard pentode design.   Likewise, current production 6CA7 are beam forming tetrode like the original Sylvania design.  Tube manufacturers also re-issued KT77 in recent years.  The internal construction of current production KT77 resembles that of classic KT77.
> 
> This makes current production EL34, 6CA7 and KT77 all sound noticeably different.  This allows us to try and pick the one that suits our tastes.



Hi CF. Are you finding this combo improves on the GU50's or still looking for your optimum set-up?

These Tung sol 6550's certainly drive the quad of 50's very well.


----------



## connieflyer

Still checking different combo's.  I like the KT66 with these very much, and the KT88's as well. Saw the discussion on the KT tubes, so decided to go back and check them out again.  The KT77 as drivers really shine with the KT88 as powers. Have not heard any other tube that offers a richer, more detailed sound than the KT77, in this combo.  The EL34 had been and still is the mainstay tube for sweet mid-range sound.


----------



## connieflyer

Shifted out of the KT tubes for powers, had not tried the KT77's with the EL tubes so put my EL39's in as power tubes with the KT77, and was so glad I did. Better in than the KT88's as powers. Was very surprised at how well the KT77 excels, being very similar to the EL34 should not have be that surprised.  With the El 39's heavenly sounds coming out of the Sennheiser 800 now.  DId not want to wear out the El39's but that is what they are for. This is the last pair of El 39's I have, oh well.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Shifted out of the KT tubes for powers, had not tried the KT77's with the EL tubes so put my EL39's in as power tubes with the KT77, and was so glad I did. Better in than the KT88's as powers. Was very surprised at how well the KT77 excels, being very similar to the EL34 should not have be that surprised.  With the El 39's heavenly sounds coming out of the Sennheiser 800 now.  DId not want to wear out the El39's but that is what they are for. This is the last pair of El 39's I have, oh well.



EL39 is definitely one of the best tubes this thread has brought up
I couldn't stop myself from grabbing another when a nos one recently came up on ebay for a very reasonable price. Your tempting me with those KT77's, I never did get around to purchasing any. At the moment the combination of TS 6550's and GU50's are really hitting the mark.


----------



## connieflyer

You are correct sir. El 39 tube is one of the best ones that I have seen for this amplifier. I have some Dario El 38 also that are very good compare favorably to the e l 39 much better then the mullard e l 38 you don't see very many of those around either


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Well, for that not, but you can blame me for my further advices:
> 
> At this point in time, when you will soon have an M-Scaler for your TT2 you definitely need some good dual BNC cables and 2 linear power supplies for both TT2 and M-Scaler.
> Then you might be fine for a period of time, in which you can think about Dave.
> ...



Right-o OH, this time I _can _blame you...at least for the LPSs! Contrary to Chord's opinions, and voiding the warranty if they damage the TT2 or m-scaler, my inexpensive LPS (but with much better replacement mains and DC cables) does indeed bring improvements over the stock SMPS power supply . So now - again at my own risk - I am awaiting a second for the m-scaler, which should soon be off the production line, hopefully!

As for the "good" BNC cables, I'm glad to say that my shift from _tube _experimenting to _cables_ is paying very handsome dividends indeed. And for any DIYers interested in such a venture, I shall give a brief(?!) summary of my findings re. an alternative to the conventional coax digital cable.

After my mk1 version, using cat 7 Ethernet cable's four individually foil shielded conduits as carriers for replacement Neotech teflon coated UP-OCC solid silver and copper wires, and which almost matched a £900+ Chord Indigo Tuned Aray cable, I copied their design of using _*two *_separate cables - one for signal, and the other's (wire) conductors for return instead of the conventional use of a single's braid shield. (I personally have always questioned the efficacy of using such a mismatched return, especially in a cable using high quality signal wires lol!).

Anyway, being surprised at the results from my unorthodox use of cat7 cable instead of normal coax, I made such a dual cable using cannibalised cat *8* cables this time (their being of even higher spec, with better shielding still). And the results (for my TT2 at least) were way beyond expectations...surpassing in fact said Chord cable. And so, perhaps just an idea for those willing to have a go at trying such an animal...or if not, at least *dualing* conventional coax cables, and _not_ using any braided shield as return!

NB. cat 8 cable is sturdier than cat 7, and it's much harder to extract the original twisted wire pairs, especially over about 35cm. Over that, cat 7 would be a better bet. And if UP-OCC *teflon coated* silver runs too expensive, then at least *teflon coated* OCC copper will still perform extremely well.

Also, in my system at least, the superior shielding has meant _no need for ferrite cores ._

So, GOOD LUCK to any intrepid trailblazers...this time for _cables_ instead of _tubes_ lol! 

ps. Will let you know if the second LPS for m-scaler is a waste of money or not (then I _would_ blame you, mon ami!! )...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Sounds like you have a good handle on the wire situation


----------



## hypnos1 (May 6, 2020)

Well guys, nice to see the 'unorthodox' tube route is still bringing positive results for folks...there certainly are plenty to choose from lol!  Plus, combinations to suit all tastes and preferences methinks, courtesy of a _very _forgiving Euforia (and Elise!).

And I would just repeat that if anyone's interested - and has the patience/time! - in ploughing back through my past posts, I have made fairly comprehensive appraisals of a host of such alternatives to stock configuration as they progressed from initial conversion that should give pointers as to their potential character...

eg. re. the EL3N - and as @aqsw mentioned - this tube is fairly 'warm' in character..._too_ warm and 'lush' for many, who then went on to prefer the German designed TFK/RFT EL11. But a good few - including myself - actually preferred the _Valvo_ version, which falls somewhere between the two (particularly the impossible now to find _mesh_ plate version).

And @connieflyer , with that comprehensive collection of (recent) superlative tubes you have, you're well set for you're AE Euforia, once it arrives! I can't wait to see what you make of it compared to the original...I only hope you're as pleased/impressed with it as I am with my Chord TT2.

I wish you all continued HAPPY LISTENING with your Feliks Audio amps......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Right-o OH, this time I _can _blame you...at least for the LPSs!



You are indeed on a very perfectly justified road to Dave, but I would say you can add also an Aurender N10 
I am very happy about what I read and I am sure these are great findings, I will, most probably, adventure on the road of DYI and the idea of using CAT7 is brilliant.
In the meantime I still enjoy my good old Qutest which was moved to another position because of some problems with the USB cable and the poor contact to Qutest USB-B input:


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Sounds like you have a good handle on the wire situation



Ah well cf, although I was glad for the respite from tube experimentation, I just couldn't stay away completely from 'fiddling' lol!  And though not as interesting/sexy as new, unexpected tubes, these cable experiments have been just as profound (and money saving)...perhaps I should patent the design!!


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## hypnos1 (May 5, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> You are indeed on a very perfectly justified road to Dave, but I would say you can add also an Aurender N10
> I am very happy about what I read and I am sure these are great findings, I will, most probably, adventure on the road of DYI and the idea of using CAT7 is brilliant.
> In the meantime I still enjoy my good old Qutest which was moved to another position because of some problems with the USB cable and the poor contact to Qutest USB-B input:



Hmmm OH...don't even go there re. an Aurender!  But luckily, I'm more than happy with my Naim...does wonders for my amps lol!

Sorry to hear of your USB issue with Qutest...the sooner you can move to BNC electrical digital cable the better IMHO!  And if you do ever go DIY cabling and try the cat 7/8 route, just give me a buzz if you should need any pointers...

ps. Just a quick couple of photos - one of the dual cable in question, and one showing 2 remaining cat 8 foil shields with original wires still in situ :


(For this cable I used just 2 of the foil carriers - one for a 24AWG Neotech silver wire (_inside_ some additional teflon tubing), the other for some 26AWG silver...).


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry to hear of your USB issue with Qutest...the sooner you can move to BNC electrical digital cable the better IMHO!


I always considered both 2Qute and Qutest USB-B inputs to be problematic, I used during the years several cables and no one gave me the sensation of a tight connection. So I start to wonder if the USB-B type of connector, cable or the Qutest itself is the problem. But maybe I am the only one having these problems because nobody else complained about this on the dedicated threads. Anyway, I will be much more careful with this input jack in the future and if I'll add M-Scaler it will not be used anymore, but most probably the USB-B input of the M-Scaler will be the same.

PS. 
Hmm I wrote DYI instead of DIY. Pff, sometimes english beats me. What to say, it's not my mother tongue so I have an excuse... but I can try to improve it.



> What Does DYI Mean?
> DYI stands for “Doing Yourself In”. In this context, and not the context of the very similar DIY, the slang word is used as a warning that actions have consequences. Example would be saying that having too many drinks at a bar will cause someone to do themselves in; that is get in trouble or do something they will regret.



Wow, never knew that.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I always considered both 2Qute and Qutest USB-B inputs to be problematic, I used during the years several cables and no one gave me the sensation of a tight connection. So I start to wonder if the USB-B type of connector, cable or the Qutest itself is the problem. But maybe I am the only one having these problems because nobody else complained about this on the dedicated threads. Anyway, I will be much more careful with this input jack in the future and if I'll add M-Scaler it will not be used anymore, but most probably the USB-B input of the M-Scaler will be the same.
> 
> PS.
> Hmm I wrote DYI instead of DIY. Pff, sometimes english beats me. What to say, it's not my mother tongue so I have an excuse... but I can try to improve it.
> ...


Always learning something new... Here and there I read about DIY that leads to DYI, especially when it comes to restoring old cars lol......Many unfinished projects out there.....


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## DecentLevi

I got my first BNC coax cable last week from my Singxer SU-1 DDC to my Qutest and the improvement over USB was substantial. I got mine from BlueJeans Cable company who makes solid quality cables of all types at an affordable price. I'm not confident any thicker or dual BNC cable can potentially improve things - however I've heard extremely promising things about glass optical cables such as this one from Lifatec. These use "470 Audio Data Silflex Glass Fiber Optic strands", and the with these kind of materials you don't have to get into pricey territory with rare earth metals and get possibly the best sound. The format is not compatible with my DDC but perhaps optical cables are supported with some of your systems.


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## OctavianH (May 6, 2020)

Yes, Lifatec are the best TOSLINK out there. There are also some Supra ZAC Toskink guaranteed for 384KHz 32bit which is quite impressive and the price is decent:
https://www.av-connection.com/?PGr=739

I use USB on my Qutest for several reasons:
1) I have some 24bit/192KHz files
2) I have only 1 optical input used by my CXC CD transport

So for the PC it remains the USB input, but I obtained "spectacular" results using JCAT USB Femto PCIex -> USB card powered externally by an 5V LPS. I might say the USB problems are solved when using this card on the other end of the USB cable. But you need a PC for this, if you have a laptop then this solution is not suitable.
I tried also ISO Regen and iFi iGalvanic + iFi iUSB nano but were inferior to the JCAT. Now I just plug this card in the PC and I am able to use my 6TB of storage for the digital files. I encoded all my CD collection and rarely play stuff directly from the CD, for me it is much simpler.
When I want to make a comparison I just swith the "white" input to "green" and put the same album on the CD and if they are almost the same I guess I am fine. As a player I use Foobar and follow this guide here for tweaking (mainly ASIO, buffering and some basic settings):
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies/
Inside this guide there is a link to another one for DSD playback.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Always learning something new... Here and there I read about DIY that leads to DYI, especially when it comes to restoring old cars lol......Many unfinished projects out there.....



Too true mordy!! And the same can apply to 'simple' cable making alas if certain basic precautions aren't adhered to lol ...namely ensuring not the tiniest strand of return shielding comes anywhere near touching the signal line!!  And this is yet another advantage of using _*two*_ separate cables for electrical ('coax') digital transfer, with one's _wires_ for return instead of using the braided shield.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Yes, Lifatec are the best TOSLINK out there. There are also some Supra ZAC Toskink guaranteed for 384KHz 32bit which is quite impressive and the price is decent:
> https://www.av-connection.com/?PGr=739
> 
> I use USB on my Qutest for several reasons:
> ...



Yes OH...using computer as source does indeed have certain advantages, but whatever one does to mitigate USB flaws, this transfer method can surely never match the use of really good wire encased in a good cable, and especially terminated with the likes of BNC connectors (or better still, removing their pins and using the cable's wire(s) _as_ the pin lol! ).

And re. the _dual_ cable I described previously, I'm afraid your doubts re. its merits @DecentLevi are very much misplaced lol...not only from my own experimental findings that brought _significant_ improvements over a single, but I'm sure there's good reason for the likes of Chord and Synergistic Research to adopt this method (not to mention some using mono crystal OCC wire) in their TOTL lines at thousands of dollars per metre!!...(not all folks who spend that kind of money 'have more than sense', as the saying goes ).

Anyway OH, whatever, forget USB and go for a really good server/player with its own internal CD copying to an SSD, plus other digital input playback, and never look back!  But perhaps you don't need to bankrupt yourself totally with that Aurender lol!!...(sure looks nice though...).


----------



## hypnos1

Well @connieflyer and @OctavianH (and any DIY cable makers out there), just thought I'd add to my previous unorthodox alternative to coax digital cable...ie. this time using cat 7 ethernet as carrier for DC power supply wire.

In my own case, I stripped out all 4 original twisted pairs of wire and replaced with Neotech teflon coated UP-OCC copper (which isn't too expensive), one each for pos and neg., leaving 2 empty foil shields as extra shielding along with the braid. And terminated with a very nice, and not too expensive gold plated, part carbon fibre DC plug. Once again, very pleased indeed with its use for my inexpensive LPS, along with a nice bit of Neotech power cable + Wattgate connector for its mains supply. And I'm sure this mod can only be of benefit to whatever DC power supply is used... especially as with the digital cable, I personally find there's no need for ferrite cores, which I'd rather not use unless absolutely necessary lol . And so once again, surely indicates the superior degree of shielding provided by ethernet cable (which is precisely what it's designed for! ).

So, folks, a quick pic of the cable in question :



HAPPY DIY'ING...but _not_ DYI'ing lol! ...CJ


----------



## Dobrescu George

My in-depth review about the Euforia Flagship from Feliks-Audio is live now! If you love tube AMPs, this one is a really good one, being neutral, clean, and also really transparent  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/director-of-sound-feliks-audio-euforia.html


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## connieflyer

The Anniversary amp is in the house.  Only about one hour on it, so needs lots of burn in, but compares even this early as better than the stock Euphoria.  Will wait for at least 50 hours on tubes and amp before doing anything further with comments.


----------



## mordy

Congrats!


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> The Anniversary amp is in the house.  Only about one hour on it, so needs lots of burn in, but compares even this early as better than the stock Euphoria.  Will wait for at least 50 hours on tubes and amp before doing anything further with comments.



Looks very smart cf...congratulations!  And now the interminable wait for her to do more burn-in...but I'm sure it'll be worth it - as always lol 

And that paint job looks lovely...begging the question - is matte or gloss best?...divided opinion no doubt! And which shows the dust worse? These are all vital questions you know, mon ami!! . But seriously, I'm looking forward to the _precise_ areas in which it surpasses the original, and to what degree...all in due course, naturally!...HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


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## connieflyer (May 10, 2020)

Well, I can say that although the gloss finish looks like it would be a fingerprint monster, so far it has not.  And as to the dust magnet time will tell. Have about eleven hours on it now and it has started to open up very well. This with stock tubes, clarity is number one thing that is so obvious, just like when I first got Euforia after the Elise. Presentation is also up a notch, trying the HE 400's this morning and they sound much fuller, and the bass is already in more abundance. Tried the pre out yesterday for a couple of hours, and the house was rocking! Neighbor brought a six pack of beer over and wanted to know if I wanted some company.  He traded beers for being D.J. !   Played a bass track, that I use for demo, and the lamp shades were vibrating across the room!  Have not tried the cross talk function yet, never cared for the function, before but will try it at some point. So far a worthwhile purchase. Have the Euforia sold will keep it until we come out of quantine


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## OctavianH

Those orange Psvanes are some of the best drivers I was able to find, but they have a very long burn in, with ups and downs, at around 200 hours. So you will need a lot of patience to reach their final state. Then you can make a 1:1 of Euforia and AE using the same tubes, because a part of that clarity comes, for sure, from them.


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## connieflyer

I am liking the way they sound as well
 Still very early but so far just using stock tunes this is a worthy competitor so far, prefer this anniversary model. With how easy it is to sell a used Euforia, I am glad I went this route


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## OctavianH

They are a very good pair for the Tung Sol 5998. For me the best 6SN7 / 6AS7 possible combo.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

PSVANE 6SN7-SE did anyone try this tube on the Euforia? I can buy to try, but if anyone tried let me know please.


----------



## Mh996

I have not. I wonder if there would be any trouble using these, given how wide they are and how close the driver slots are on Euforia


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## Yoram Diamand

Mh996 said:


> I have not. I wonder if there would be any trouble using these, given how wide they are and how close the driver slots are on Euforia


I bought a pair at ebay, half the price of Aliexpress, but if they are too large I'll tell you. A pair costs 200 euro or 100.


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## barontan2418 (May 22, 2020)

This combination is very special. Just inserted 2 x GEC KT88's + 2 x GU50's as powers driven by 2 x GEC KT66's. GEC' KT88's are on the well worn side but still good, I'd have to sell my car to get nos😉. Time now to listen and behold.


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## mordy

Yoram Diamand said:


> I bought a pair at ebay, half the price of Aliexpress, but if they are too large I'll tell you. A pair costs 200 euro or 100.


Based on posted measurements the Globe tubes measure 59mm. In contrast, the regular 6SN7 tubes measure 30mm or less in diameter.
Tried to gauge it on my Euforia - could be a very tight fit or maybe not work. One workaround (but inelegant) is to stack socket savers until you have clearance......


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mordy said:


> Based on posted measurements the Globe tubes measure 59mm. In contrast, the regular 6SN7 tubes measure 30mm or less in diameter.
> Tried to gauge it on my Euforia - could be a very tight fit or maybe not work. One workaround (but inelegant) is to stack socket savers until you have clearance......


Hi I am not very experienced with socket savers, when I google the word they go up, maybe if one bulb would go up and the othe would stay down it would create some space, I do not care for the looks that much. Thanks Y


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## mordy

The socket savers have two functions - to save wear and tear on the tube sockets in the amp, and they also act as insulators so that the tube does not heat up the chassis as much as without. 
What I meant is that you could stack them to get clearance but I don't know if you need them at all, or if you do, how many socket savers are required for the tubes to clear each other.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-NEW-TUB...854534?hash=item5da7d729c6:g:5hoAAOSwEgRd7SmJ


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## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> This combination is very special. Just inserted 2 x GEC KT88's + 2 x GU50's as powers driven by 2 x GEC KT66's as drivers. GEC' KT88's are on the well worn side but still good, I'd have to sell my car to get nos😉. Time now to listen and behold.



Hi bt. My own very best sound ever came from the GEC TT21/22 versions of the KT88 partnering GU50s as powers, and driven by 2 more GU50s. But there are almost endless combinations of these - and others - that should satisfy _any_ tastes lol! But the real giant in the mix is certainly the _original_ GEC KT88 or better still, the TT21/22...but both need other adapters and the TT22 a 12V heater supply also alas .

Glad to hear y'all still enjoying your Euforias, and that @connieflyer is so impressed with his AE model...well done once again F-A!! As for me, I'm in 7th Heaven now I have my m-scaler to take the TT2 to new heights...also assisted by my latest mk2 coax 'alternative' digital cables and 2 LPSs, which Chord say would void the warranty if they cause damage (but actually are quite superior to the supplied SMPSs in their effect on performance - of both units!).

I'm really missing my time here with you guys - not to mention the tube experimentation, but I'm finding this new territory quite fascinating also, even with nary a tube in sight lol! And at least I have fond memories of all that has passed in my time with Elise and Euforia, not least with all those past and present.

I wish you all continued enjoyment from your excellent tube amps...plus my hopes that you all stay free from that accursed virus!...CHEERS!...CJ


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## Mh996 (May 23, 2020)

Ah, how relaxing Saturday afternoons can be when you have the place to yourself! This combo shows me why Focal loves Euforia. Perfectly smooth with excellent soundstage and layering, especially w/ EL39s in the power slot. Using these EL3Ns as drivers until my EL11’s eventually arrive from Germany. Much thanks to @hypnos1 for his investigatory prowess and discovery of these gems, and for the excellent EL39 adapters. Hope you‘re enjoying the next phase of your journey. I think my partner would put a bullet in me before letting me step into TT2/M scaler territory. One of these years!


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## DecentLevi

Mh996 said:


> Ah, how relaxing Saturday afternoons can be when you have the place to yourself! This combo shows me why Focal loves Euforia. Perfectly smooth with excellent soundstage and layering, especially w/ EL39s in the power slot. Using these EL3Ns as drivers until my EL11’s eventually arrive from Germany. Much thanks to @hypnos1 for his investigatory prowess and discovery of these gems, and for the excellent EL39 adapters. Hope you‘re enjoying the next phase of your journey. I think my partner would put a bullet in me before letting me step into TT2/M scaler territory. One of these years!


Very interesting. I think you are the first on the F.A. threads to ever use an EL3N with gold / brown band. I was told it's inferior so avoided it... I think the same way with EL39 with a red band. Perhaps they are all the same, just with a faded color over time.

_I think my partner would put a bullet in me before letting me step into TT2/M scaler territory._
That's why I don't deal with relationships (half joking). But certainly nothin' beats some solitude time!!


----------



## Scutey

Mh996 said:


> Ah, how relaxing Saturday afternoons can be when you have the place to yourself! This combo shows me why Focal loves Euforia. Perfectly smooth with excellent soundstage and layering, especially w/ EL39s in the power slot. Using these EL3Ns as drivers until my EL11’s eventually arrive from Germany. Much thanks to @hypnos1 for his investigatory prowess and discovery of these gems, and for the excellent EL39 adapters. Hope you‘re enjoying the next phase of your journey. I think my partner would put a bullet in me before letting me step into TT2/M scaler territory. One of these years!


I was wondering about those EL3N, I only have the red base version too, are those Visseaux?.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, did anyone try the Audeze LCD-GX, or LCD-X on the Euforia? On paper they are easier to drive than the Hifiman Arya, where the Arya maybe has some advantage coming from the HE-1000.


----------



## triggsviola

I know I'm really behind the times because I've been running mostly stock tubes (and loving it). But I recently picked up a pair of Tung Sol 5998. It sounds much better the stock power tubes they had in there. I've only been running them a few hours and the difference is already night and day. The dynamism and detail is much...more... I feel like I can hear details I wasn't meant to hear (like edits and click bleed and stuff like that). I can hear the space where these recordings were made (I like listening to classical, old jazz, and film scores). The previous tubes seemed to obscure stuff like that. Detail without harshness has been my goal as a listener. This upgrade brings me much closer to that goal.

A slightly unrelated question: what speaker power amps pair well with the preout of the euforia?

Thanks and cheers!


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi again folks, I was looking for a pro-audio cassette player to archive a few old tapes I found, then realized I can also get a CD transport with a combo unit! For me this would kill two birds with one stone. It may not be the most uber CD transport but I'm trying to see what is the best I can get for a couple hundred dollars used. It needs to have a good quality tape deck & CD player with either BNC coax or toslink optical output. Would one of the below be good, or is there another more recommended brand / model someone here knows of with the best sound?

TASCAM CD-A630 Professional Quality Cassette and 3x CD Player

Tascam CC-222MKII Analog Multi-Track Professional Cassette/CD Recorder


I also had my sights on a good used Denon T625 but it only had RCA coax out, and unless I'm mistaken that can't be adapted to BNC coax input.
I know this is off topic so feel free to reply by PM. @mordy or @hypnos1 maybe you would know


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## DecentLevi (May 29, 2020)

triggsviola said:


> (...)
> A slightly unrelated question: what speaker power amps pair well with the preout of the euforia?
> 
> Thanks and cheers!


I think the better question would be which speaker amp pairs well with your speakers. That is the main point - amp synergy with your speakers. The Euforia has a standard line-out so will pair with every amp and sound only as good/bad as the component it's going out to. Thus being said, I've always gotten extravagantly good sound from my Euforia's line out to a Stax electrostatic system, and the sound changed a lot depending on tubes used.


----------



## Mh996

DecentLevi said:


> Very interesting. I think you are the first on the F.A. threads to ever use an EL3N with gold / brown band. I was told it's inferior so avoided it... I think the same way with EL39 with a red band. Perhaps they are all the same, just with a faded color over time.
> 
> _I think my partner would put a bullet in me before letting me step into TT2/M scaler territory._
> That's why I don't deal with relationships (half joking). But certainly nothin' beats some solitude time!!



These are Visseaux EL3Ns. I purchased these from Erwan back in August as he was offloading his Euforia and tube collection. They are my favorite driver to use with EL39s, though I don’t have any other EL3Ns to compare directly to. I couldn’t find any posts on this thread or the Elise thread regarding either the Visseaux’s or silver/gold-banded EL3Ns, though I have no trouble believing some renditions could be inferior. The sound is right up my alley, and that’s what matters most, eh!?


----------



## hypnos1

Mh996 said:


> These are Visseaux EL3Ns. I purchased these from Erwan back in August as he was offloading his Euforia and tube collection. They are my favorite driver to use with EL39s, though I don’t have any other EL3Ns to compare directly to. I couldn’t find any posts on this thread or the Elise thread regarding either the Visseaux’s or silver/gold-banded EL3Ns, though I have no trouble believing some renditions could be inferior. The sound is right up my alley, and that’s what matters most, eh!?



Hi Mh996. Sorry for the late reply to your previous post...no notification my end alas. But glad to hear you're loving the exceptional EL39s. And I suspect that your gold band Visseaux EL3Ns are indeed a step up from the 'standard' Philips stable _red_ banded tube, which many (including myself) found rather too much on the 'warm' side...remedied by going for the EL11. And by the way (@DecentLevi ), the _red _ banded 'EL39' is in fact the earlier 4654 tube, and vehemently dismissed by the French afficianados who waxed lyrical about the _silver_ banded 'Pro' version......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

DecentLevi said:


> Hi again folks, I was looking for a pro-audio cassette player to archive a few old tapes I found, then realized I can also get a CD transport with a combo unit! For me this would kill two birds with one stone. It may not be the most uber CD transport but I'm trying to see what is the best I can get for a couple hundred dollars used. It needs to have a good quality tape deck & CD player with either BNC coax or toslink optical output. Would one of the below be good, or is there another more recommended brand / model someone here knows of with the best sound?
> 
> TASCAM CD-A630 Professional Quality Cassette and 3x CD Player
> 
> ...



Hi DL. All coax S/PDIF is 75 Ohm, no matter what plug is used. And there are indeed adapters available...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

Man the Feliks- Audio threads have gone quiet. I posted a version of this question in the Elise thread as well, so apologies for the duplication but I'm really hoping one more experienced than i can help. The issue is that the I've been running Tung-Sol KT-150's as powers in Elise, with adapters by Deyan. The KT150's are 6.3 volt like other Elise powers, draw <= 2 amps heater current which is less than 6AS7's. However, they have a very high plate dissipation of 70 watts, more than 4x compared to 6AS7G family. Besides potentially more power output would this aspect alone be expected to influence the sound, and most importantly, *can this high plate dissipation potentially damage the Elise*? Thanks for any help to put my mind at ease.


----------



## hpamdr

LoryWiv said:


> Man the Feliks- Audio threads have gone quiet. I posted a version of this question in the Elise thread as well, so apologies for the duplication but I'm really hoping one more experienced than i can help. The issue is that the I've been running Tung-Sol KT-150's as powers in Elise, with adapters by Deyan. The KT150's are 6.3 volt like other Elise powers, draw <= 2 amps heater current which is less than 6AS7's. However, they have a very high plate dissipation of 70 watts, more than 4x compared to 6AS7G family. Besides potentially more power output would this aspect alone be expected to influence the sound, and most importantly, *can this high plate dissipation potentially damage the Elise*? Thanks for any help to put my mind at ease.


KT150 is built for much higher voltage than the one used in your amplifier (around 140V in output). The tube do not work in it's optimal current/voltage specification and the response not as linear as 6AS7G a very good match for almost all headphone from 100 to 300 Ohm.

As you said it drain less than 2A by tube to heat. (On Elise you should not go above 7.5A for heating all tubes). So heating will not damage your amplifier !
What kind of tube do you use as driver ?

If it sound good to you you can keep it in your amp but it should not pair very well with low Z headphones. After all it should not damage more than GU50 tube with external heating circuit..


----------



## LoryWiv (Jun 8, 2020)

hpamdr said:


> KT150 is built for much higher voltage than the one used in your amplifier (around 140V in output). The tube do not work in it's optimal current/voltage specification and the response not as linear as 6AS7G a very good match for almost all headphone from 100 to 300 Ohm.
> 
> As you said it drain less than 2A by tube to heat. (On Elise you should not go above 7.5A for heating all tubes). So heating will not damage your amplifier !
> What kind of tube do you use as driver ?
> ...


I use  6SN7 drivers for the KT150 and 300 ohm ZMF headphones. I actually thought Elise should stay under 6.5A so havent't tried the KT150's with anything else. They do have great energy but as you say perhaps it's just not linear in Elise power slot. I had wondered if the Elie's autobias circuit could address that but perhaps it's to great a disparity between Elise's operating parameters and the optimal paramneters of the KT150.

I also run Genalex GL KT88's as powers and they sound a bit less "energetic / present" but much more linear and natural, have them in now driven by some vintage GE 7581A's. Sound is very nice.

Good to know the KT150's won't damage anything, they just may not be optimal for the amp.

I appreciate your input, @hpamdr!


----------



## connieflyer

Quick note on the continuing burn in of the 20th year anniversary Euforia .  Amp should be totally burned in, tubes as well. Still using stock tubes want a good foundation. Comparing it to my regular Euforia , the difference is more than subtle. All areas I have checked and compared the two amps, have brought the same results. The new amp is better, in all areas.  Some more than others, but on the whole I have not seen anything that would make me desire to keep the old Euphoria or go back to use it as main amp. I may start to roll in some of my old favorite combo of tubes soon, but even the stock tubes are much better than the original on the older Euforia.  The one thing I thought for sure it would be a dust magnet, but turns out it is less than the original. Don't understand it, but appreciate it. The overall design is of course the same, but to me it looks a little smaller, the front panel with the painted volume marks, is helpful as well. The difference in price is more than a drop in the bucket, especially in the states, but after living with it for the past few months, I think it is worth the extra.


----------



## hpamdr

I received some time ago already some NOS EL39 I measured and was able to build decent pairs.
As everyone have already said this is a fantastic output tube and it pair wonderfully with all the strapped pentode/tetrode. It also need some burning time to give it best. 


I received cheap EL12N RFT/RSD tube i wanted to test for my next amplifier. 
I made a test using them as driver and *with EL39 as output *and i can say that it is a good driver no hum, no noise.. It is not as warm as EL3N (miniwatt) but it have deep controlled bass and is very dynamic just a bit bright. (tubes a just out of the box).  IMO, it is a good tube for Live recording Jazz, Rock, Pop...

It does not sound as good with original 6H13C and drain to much heating current. 

So to me the EL39  is a magic powder for Euforia it cost much less than GEC 6AS7G, it ais a long life pro tube, do not need external heater... I've made a adapter also compatible with EL34 6L6 KTxx tubes.

@connieflyer I hope that you will be able to fit EL39 in your 20th year anniversary Euforia even keeping gold psvane.


----------



## barontan2418

hpamdr said:


> I received some time ago already some NOS EL39 I measured and was able to build decent pairs.
> As everyone have already said this is a fantastic output tube and it pair wonderfully with all the strapped pentode/tetrode. It also need some burning time to give it best.
> 
> 
> ...


EL39 has been one of my favourite powers for both Elise and Euforia for a while now and performs very well with EL11 as drivers. At the moment I'm running GEC KT88's driven by GE 7581's in Euforia and Tung sol 6550's driven again by GE 7581's in Euforia both of which are fine sounding combinations.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jun 11, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> EL39 has been one of my favourite powers for both Elise and Euforia for a while now and performs very well with EL11 as drivers. At the moment I'm running GEC KT88's driven by GE 7581's in Euforia and *Tung sol 6550*'s driven again by GE 7581's in Euforia both of which are fine sounding combinations.


Are these vintage or new production Tung-Sol 6550? Do they use the same adapters as KT88? In any case, how would you compare them to the KT88 sound-wise?

OK, used up my 3 questions.  Thanks!


----------



## barontan2418 (Jun 11, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Are these vintage or new production Tung-Sol 6550? Do they use the same adapters as KT88? In any case, how would you compare them to the KT88 sound-wise?
> 
> OK, used up my 3 questions.  Thanks!


Hi LoryWiv.
My Tung sol 6550's are vintage, not nos but still good condition. Yes they take the same adapters as KT88 's. I've not listened to the GL KT88 for some time now so would need to perhaps pop them back in and remind myself of their abilities.
The GEC KT88's have replaced my 5998's and EL39's as my favourite power tubes but can be expensive. I've found that the GEC's can be well used but still sound great in our amps which no where near push them to their capacity and allows more scope when checking for good deals on ebay.


----------



## hpamdr

Still experimenting with EL39 (year 62), using the small sister EL32 (Year 43) same RT Brand.
Nice look   and sweet sound with HD800S _[*imany *Live At The Casino De Paris]_ and T1 (  ) [_*Björk *Biophilia_] .
Not a jazzy day...


----------



## jay2406

I have heard the Euforia has good synergy with the Meze Empyrean. Can anyone confirm this?


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## connieflyer

H 1 has had that combination and he thoroughly enjoyed it some of the best he has ever heard. He still watches This Thread so he may chime in. I am using the Sennheiser 800 and the Oppo pm-1 as my main phones and they both are excellent with the euphoria. I have both the standard fee for you and the 20th anniversary euphoria and those phones work very well indeed


----------



## gimmeheadroom

connieflyer said:


> H 1 has had that combination and he thoroughly enjoyed it some of the best he has ever heard. He still watches This Thread so he may chime in. I am using the Sennheiser 800 and the Oppo pm-1 as my main phones and they both are excellent with the euphoria. I have both the standard fee for you and the 20th anniversary euphoria and those phones work very well indeed



You have the standard fee for you? I feel Android autocorrect is at work


----------



## connieflyer

Actually if you own both amplifiers with those very same headphones there is a fee involved!


----------



## connieflyer

Time to start rolling, EL 39 with stock Psvanes


----------



## flea22

Hello

I have a euforia about to arrive and I was just wondering how do you switch from using it as a headphone amp to using it as a pre amp?


----------



## mordy

flea22 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a euforia about to arrive and I was just wondering how do you switch from using it as a headphone amp to using it as a pre amp?


On the front is the headphone jack - this is for using the headphones.
On the back are the RCA preamp out jacks. Just connect the cables to your amp /receiver and now you can use the Euforia as a preamp.
And if you want to, you can use both together (there are people who like to use speakers together with headphones). However, using both together could affect the volume.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jun 16, 2020)

Question about tube equivalencies and compatibility with Elise / Euforia: As best as I can determine 6L6 /  6V6 are similar to KT 66 / 88, EL34 is similar to KT77, and EL37 is similar to 7581. I have used adapters from Deyan to run KT 66, 77 and 88 as well as 7581A in  Elise. Based on this compatibility is it also expected that any 6L6, 6V6, EL34 or EL37 would work equivalently well using this adapters I already have? Any landmines I should be watchful for?  Thanks...still trying to educate myself about the depths, dangers and rewards of this tube rolling rabbit hole.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

jay2406 said:


> I have heard the Euforia has good synergy with the Meze Empyrean. Can anyone confirm this?


I know for a fact Meze has the Euforia in their factory. But I have not yet the cash for the Meze.


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## connieflyer

Sad day, tried my EL39's with stock Psvanes and no joy.  Since last use one or both decided to wear themselves out. Through pre out, distortion in bass, and after letting them settle in for over an hour, improvement yes, but not without some distortion.  They were used when I got them so no telling what they had been through. Next tried the "special El38" and those were much better. But after a while with headphones could discern slight anomolies. So this morning tried the Dario El38's with phones, and these are doing great.  No distortion, wide open, wonderful sound.  With use these for a while and find a different driver.  Eventually going back to the GU50's and KT88's but want to hear more combo's before that.


----------



## jay2406

If anyone is considering selling their Feliks Euforia and live in the UK/EU give me a message.


----------



## jay2406

Yoram Diamand said:


> I know for a fact Meze has the Euforia in their factory. But I have not yet the cash for the Meze.


Thanks for confirming this. I have narrowed the search down to the Euforia and the Burson Conductor 3 Reference. Will get whatever comes up first in the used market.


----------



## endre83

jay2406 said:


> Thanks for confirming this. I have narrowed the search down to the Euforia and the Burson Conductor 3 Reference. Will get whatever comes up first in the used market.


I had the Burson and sold it - many weak points imho


----------



## jay2406

endre83 said:


> I had the Burson and sold it - many weak points imho


Was the weak points related to the sound or just build and function? my preference over the two is the Euforia


----------



## endre83

jay2406 said:


> Was the weak points related to the sound or just build and function? my preference over the two is the Euforia


Both a bit, soundwise it lacked space and detail for me with my Verite. I was quite shocked when my Hugo 2 arrived and blasted Burson Conductor 3X in every term as a DAC and as an AMP (not in power, but in clearity) 

I was unhappy with permanent hiss both with some headphones and iems. Also it made zz zz when the oled screen was blinking. And I hated the fact that a 2.200 € item has a volume knob that jumps around: you turn 2 clicks up, it turns one down one up totally random. I was happy to sell them


----------



## jay2406

endre83 said:


> Both a bit, soundwise it lacked space and detail for me with my Verite. I was quite shocked when my Hugo 2 arrived and blasted Burson Conductor 3X in every term as a DAC and as an AMP (not in power, but in clearity)
> 
> I was unhappy with permanent hiss both with some headphones and iems. Also it made zz zz when the oled screen was blinking. And I hated the fact that a 2.200 € item has a volume knob that jumps around: you turn 2 clicks up, it turns one down one up totally random. I was happy to sell them


Thanks for the feedback. The Euforia it is then


----------



## connieflyer

With the new Anniversary amp, best tubes rolled so far are the Kt77 driver and KT88 powers. Beat even the El 38 Dario's, quite surprised. One thing with this amp the tube sockets are very tight. If you manage to seat a tube all the way down, it will be difficult to remove. That is why for now did not bother with slight lean on the KT77


----------



## OctavianH

I think the KT77 with KT88 was one of your favourite on the previous amp. The difference on this one is big?


----------



## connieflyer

You are correct, they were a favorite on the Euforia, and equally so on this anniversary amp.  Better? Somewhat, slightly different rendition. But piano does seem to hit better on the new amp


----------



## connieflyer

Well, this is a surprise.  After running this configuration most of the day.  Gave it rest for an hour or two.  Pulled the KT77 and replaced with KT66, and whoa what a complete surprise. Total transformation! Bass is crazy deep, clear and no distortion at all.  Vocals are great .  Just listening to Thirty Seconds to Mars' Walk on Water, and the entire bass line is clear as can be.  Had run this combo as well as a quad of KT66's on the regular Euforia and never heard it like this. The difference in circutry and components have messed with my tube choices.  This is going to take longer than I thought. This is pre out and headphone use. New respect for the changes, they do make a difference with the choice of tubes, but you can not swap old favorites to new amp and expect to get same results. Thought it odd how good it sounded with stock tubes.  Going to let this combo mellow in for a day or two, maybe a week would be better. I will try swapping in another pair of KT66 and KT88's and see if there is any difference.  Upgrade in price is looking more amenable now.


----------



## StarlightDawn

Hey music lovers 

I have been using the Verite Open (Silkwood) with the Questyle CMA 400i for the past 6 months. Everything was fine until two months.. everything sounded plain and I had a feeling that this is not how the VO should sound. I took the jump 2 weeks ago by upgrading to the CMA Twelve Master, and I never knew that an amp could make such a huge difference. It was like listening to a completely different headphone... the mids, the bass, soundstage, imaging.. it's surreal!

I have been thinking of getting my very first tube amp for some time now... and I kept on reading how Feliks tube amps pairs really well with ZMF headphones. I have narrowed it down to 3 amps (Auris HA2 SE, Feliks Elise, Feliks Euforia). Even though I can't demo these units.. I feel that the Elise will suit the sound I'm going for at this moment in time.. which is smooth, warm, tubey sound (really curious about what this sound like). 

I kind of want the Euforia since it's Feliks' flagship.. although I heard it's linear and bright as opposed to the warmth of Elise. 
I plan on using the Twelve Master's DAC for now.. and eventually upgrade it to a standalone DAC such as the Qutest or Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro.
I do see myself using the amp for a long time, and the only other headphones that I intend to get in the future are the other ZMF headphones such as the Aeolus and Verite Closed. Please kindly let me know your thoughts, I would love to hear your opinion on this matter. 

Thank you so much!


----------



## LoryWiv

StarlightDawn said:


> Hey music lovers
> 
> I have been using the Verite Open (Silkwood) with the Questyle CMA 400i for the past 6 months. Everything was fine until two months.. everything sounded plain and I had a feeling that this is not how the VO should sound. I took the jump 2 weeks ago by upgrading to the CMA Twelve Master, and I never knew that an amp could make such a huge difference. It was like listening to a completely different headphone... the mids, the bass, soundstage, imaging.. it's surreal!
> 
> ...


Well, as you can see from my signature we have similar brand preferences.   I do not own Verite but am absolutely thrilled with Matrix X Sabre Pro --> Elise --> Auteur. I actually don't find Elise as "tubey" as some tube amps I've heard but it is far more euphonic than my previous iFi solid state gear. In addition, Elise responds very well to tube rolling with some combo's sounding nearly solid state (using TS 7236 powers in particular), others more consistent with what I've heard from other "tubey" amps. I'm sure others can weigh in but suspect Euforia can produce different "flavors" as well depending upon tube complement used. Either way, it sounds like you're on a good path...enjoy!


----------



## StarlightDawn

LoryWiv said:


> Well, as you can see from my signature we have similar brand preferences.   I do not own Verite but am absolutely thrilled with Matrix X Sabre Pro --> Elise --> Auteur. I actually don't find Elise as "tubey" as some tube amps I've heard but it is far more euphonic than my previous iFi solid state gear. In addition, Elise responds very well to tube rolling with some combo's sounding nearly solid state (using TS 7236 powers in particular), others more consistent with what I've heard from other "tubey" amps. I'm sure others can weigh in but suspect Euforia can produce different "flavors" as well depending upon tube complement used. Either way, it sounds like you're on a good path...enjoy!



Thank you!
How does your current setup sound like?


----------



## flea22

mordy said:


> On the front is the headphone jack - this is for using the headphones.
> On the back are the RCA preamp out jacks. Just connect the cables to your amp /receiver and now you can use the Euforia as a preamp.
> And if you want to, you can use both together (there are people who like to use speakers together with headphones). However, using both together could affect the volume.


Thanks, was hoping there was a switch, don't want my headphones running when using it as a pre amp. I will just unplug the cans.

Anyway I have received my amp and it is beautiful, also went a bit silly and got some meze empyeans. 

Will post some impressions after burn in. But I can say life is good 😉


----------



## LoryWiv

flea22 said:


> Thanks, was hoping there was a switch, don't want my headphones running when using it as a pre amp. I will just unplug the cans.
> 
> Anyway I have received my amp and it is beautiful, also went a bit silly and got some meze empyeans.
> 
> Will post some impressions after burn in. But I can say life is good 😉


Nice WE 421a's. I've been hunting for a pair but they all are quite pricey. 

BTW, do they really improve with the tube dampers? I used some Herbie's dampers a while back and couldn't really detect a difference.


----------



## LoryWiv

StarlightDawn said:


> Thank you!
> How does your current setup sound like?


PM sent.


----------



## flea22

LoryWiv said:


> Nice WE 421a's. I've been hunting for a pair but they all are quite pricey.
> 
> BTW, do they really improve with the tube dampers? I used some Herbie's dampers a while back and couldn't really detect a difference.



My advice would be only get the 421A'S if there around the same price as the 5998's. I have both and to be honest I can not tell the difference. But that was on a woo wa22 so maybe the feliks might show some difference between the two. 

Also cant really tell the difference with the dampers, maybe just maybe they tighten up the sound and sound more ss like. Dont know why I really bought them.


----------



## LoryWiv

flea22 said:


> My advice would be only get the 421A'S if there around the same price as the 5998's. I have both and to be honest I can not tell the difference. But that was on a woo wa22 so maybe the feliks might show some difference between the two.
> 
> Also cant really tell the difference with the dampers, maybe just maybe they tighten up the sound and sound more ss like. Dont know why I really bought them.



I am often amazed but what a difference tube swaps make in Elise. @flea22, do you find in general that the Feliks amps are more likely to reveal changes from tube rolls than the Woo?


----------



## DecentLevi

One of my tubes just died. An RCA 6SN7 GT 'newest' smoked glass type and it was my alltime favorite 6SN7. One of just a few tubes I've had keel on me over the years but this is the first that went out with a lasting flourescent blaze of glory. The sound faded out on one channel and this thing put on a nice departing light show. Definitely beats the occasional exploding arch on first time pairings (always unplug headphones with first time pairings to avoid fallout). This was actually with my "Quad PA One *+*" amp I've bought as a worthwhile upgrade over the Euforia. IMO outdoing the dynamics / slam and detail by a sizeable margin, only lacking on the soundstage dep't.


----------



## flea22

LoryWiv said:


> I am often amazed but what a difference tube swaps make in Elise. @flea22, do you find in general that the Feliks amps are more likely to reveal changes from tube rolls than the Woo?


The wa22 really was a tube rolling amp, I could tell the difference in sound even rolling rectifiers.

I've only just got my euforia and still letting it burn in, so the only tubes I have heard are the 421a's and some slyvania 6sn7 I had laying around. Did not buy the amp with any stock tubes. But I will let you know my impressions when I do start rolling.

That is great news your amazed from the sound difference from tube rolling your Elise, gives me hope tube rolling the euforia will be fun!!


----------



## LoryWiv

flea22 said:


> That is great news your amazed from the sound difference from tube rolling your Elise, gives me hope tube rolling the euforia will be fun!!


Definitely big fun...and expensive! Worth it though.


----------



## OctavianH

flea22 said:


> The wa22 really was a tube rolling amp, I could tell the difference in sound even rolling rectifiers.



The problem of rolling rectifiers is that in the end you reach to the point of buying WE 422A and selling your soul for it.

How do you find WA22 compared to Euforia?


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> With the new Anniversary amp, best tubes rolled so far are the Kt77 driver and KT88 powers. Beat even the El 38 Dario's, quite surprised. One thing with this amp the tube sockets are very tight. If you manage to seat a tube all the way down, it will be difficult to remove. That is why for now did not bother with


----------



## barontan2418

Was posting but totally lost the plot. I'll take my pills and try again.🤪


----------



## flea22

OctavianH said:


> The problem of rolling rectifiers is that in the end you reach to the point of buying WE 422A and selling your soul for it.
> 
> How do you find WA22 compared to Euforia?


Haha, lucky for me I never manged to find a 422A. 

A quick comparison between the wa22 and the euforia, I would say the wa22 is more powerful, punchy, has greater bass slam.

The Euforia wins big time with sound stage, every sound seems to be in there right place. No harshness to be heard. Overall a very lush enjoyable experience.

There both great amps.


----------



## StarlightDawn

flea22 said:


> Haha, lucky for me I never manged to find a 422A.
> 
> A quick comparison between the wa22 and the euforia, I would say the wa22 is more powerful, punchy, has greater bass slam.
> 
> ...



Do you find the Euforia to be bright/neutral/warm with the stock tubes?


----------



## flea22

StarlightDawn said:


> Do you find the Euforia to be bright/neutral/warm with the stock tubes?


I bought my euforia with no stock tubes, I am using nos tubes I have collected from owning other amplifers. With nos tubes I would say it sounds beautifully neutral. I was worried about it being warm sounding due to my headphones having a warm sound signature and things would sound way to warm, But that is not the case here.  

I can listen the euforia for hours on end with no fatigue.


----------



## walakalulu

What’s with all this tube rolling business? I bought the Euphoria Anniversary a few months back with the stock tubes and all is hunky dory. I think... What am I missing here?


----------



## LoryWiv

walakalulu said:


> What’s with all this tube rolling business? I bought the Euphoria Anniversary a few months back with the stock tubes and all is hunky dory. I think... What am I missing here?


Satisfied with your amp. with stock tubes? Bask in your serene bliss, fortunate one. Enjoy music, run from this thread, and never look back. All it takes is one innocent tube roll and the rabbit hole opens up like the autobahn, lures you in and ever onward, and lays claim to all of your sense and disposable income.

As for me, I will calm myself with Scarlatti, trying to banish the thought of whether these newly acquired vintage Ken Rad VT231 drivers, as wonderful as they sound in Elise, would pair better with different output tubes. The agony, the ecstasy, the holy grail so near and yet perhaps forever out of reach. I take solace in the words of Socrates that "the unexamined life is not worth living" but oh, so many tubes to examine! Now I must take my leave, the call of the Mullard beckons in the distance.

Satirical to be sure, but you get the idea...


----------



## OctavianH

I always saw the tube rolling as beer tasting. Well, you always have you favourite beer in your daily pub and it is fine. But one day you go 2 streets near in a beer pub and they have 10 new beers. What would you do? Well, start to try all of them and since then, everytime you find a new one you try it. Some are better, some are not, pleasure is the same. So long live beer rolling.


----------



## OctavianH

flea22 said:


> My advice would be only get the 421A'S if there around the same price as the 5998's. I have both and to be honest I can not tell the difference. But that was on a woo wa22 so maybe the feliks might show some difference between the two.



On Elise there is a quite big difference between the WE 421A and the Tung Sol 5998. For me GEC 6AS7G is the cleanest, detailed and most neutral one. The 5998 has more bass and is much warmer, but the bass has a very good quality and punch. The WE 421A was for me somewhere in the middle of these 2, taking advantages from both. I do not remember very good because some time passed, but what I can say for sure is that there is a hearable difference between them.


----------



## walakalulu

Anybody tried the Golden Dragon tube rings on this amp. Seems they cater for most sizes.


----------



## connieflyer

Further rolling on the Feliks Anniversary amp, it seems the components and ciruitry is just different enough to make, my preferences with stock Euforia just off a little. I ran a quad of KT66's in Euforia and while I liked it, sounded like it was just a little lacking in depth and resolution. Not so anymore, this has moved up past the KT66, KT77 and the KT88's.  The quad of KT66 is in number one spot. Go figure.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Satisfied with your amp. with stock tubes? Bask in your serene bliss, fortunate one. Enjoy music, run from this thread, and never look back. All it takes is one innocent tube roll and the rabbit hole opens up like the autobahn, lures you in and ever onward, and lays claim to all of your sense and disposable income.
> 
> As for me, I will calm myself with Scarlatti, trying to banish the thought of whether these newly acquired vintage Ken Rad VT231 drivers, as wonderful as they sound in Elise, would pair better with different output tubes. The agony, the ecstasy, the holy grail so near and yet perhaps forever out of reach. I take solace in the words of Socrates that "the unexamined life is not worth living" but oh, so many tubes to examine! Now I must take my leave, the call of the Mullard beckons in the distance.
> 
> Satirical to be sure, but you get the idea...


I did not find your post satirical, but poetic.
However, in my case, after searching and trying a lot of tubes, I have found what I like pretty much, until the next opportunity comes......lol.
The main difference in my tube rolling now, having had some experience, is that I am limiting myself only to try inexpensive tubes. IMHO great sound can be found without having to resort to the very expensive tubes.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> I did not find your post satirical, but poetic.
> However, in my case, after searching and trying a lot of tubes, I have found what I like pretty much, until the next opportunity comes......lol.
> The main difference in my tube rolling now, having had some experience, is that I am limiting myself only to try inexpensive tubes. IMHO great sound can be found without having to resort to the very expensive tubes.


You are kind @mordy. Wise too, to enjoy this hobby while mindful of your wallet!


----------



## walakalulu

Funny old world - whilst happy (so far) with stock tubes, I changed the input cables from a low capacitance broadcast cable to a pricey Lessloss jobbie which resulted in a significant change in sound. Maybe this needs as much attention as tube rolling?


----------



## LoryWiv

walakalulu said:


> Funny old world - whilst happy (so far) with stock tubes, I changed the input cables from a low capacitance broadcast cable to a pricey Lessloss jobbie which resulted in a significant change in sound. Maybe this needs as much attention as tube rolling?


Ah, with discerning ears it all seems to matter, or perhaps its expectation bias. In any case, chasing the perfect sound is a passion, although I try not to let it be a greater passion than the enjoyment of the music itself.


----------



## OctavianH (Jun 22, 2020)

Interconnects change indeed the sound. I tried that and heard the difference. At the moment I use DH Labs Air Matrix which are sounding great, much above my previous Chord C Line or Clearway. I tried also some silver cables in the past but they were not my cup of tea, the sound was dry and lifeless.

PS: Something to read:
https://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm


----------



## mike1953

JUst a quick note to say I’ve listed my Euforia Anniversary & a selection of tubes in the for sale section. Selling as I’d like to try a different amp and I need to raise funds. UK sales preferred but will also sell within the EU.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question about Feliks-Elise  and Euforia tube compatibility: I have 2 pairs of 6V6 (GEC 6V6G and Ken Rad 6V6GT) ordered and on the way, planning to use with 6V6 --> 6AS7 adapters. I notice from data sheets that the 6V6 heater current is only 0.45A, much lower than the 2.5A standard 6AS7 output tubes and even lower then the standard 0.6A 6SN7 drivers in Elise. The power slots in Elise / Euforia auto-bias, which is good in this regard I think, but is it likely the 6V6 will perform strangely (underpowered, lacking headroom or producing stange tonality?) as powers if I driven by a tube with higher heater current like 6SN7, or is that irrelevant. Also, any reason I can't try 6V6's out as drivers with 7236 or 6080 power tubes, as long as I stay under the total current limit of Elise which is around 6.6A?

Anyway, the Ken Rads and GEC's combined were not too costly and I was in mood to experiment, now wondering if I was overly impulsive. I certainly don't want to damage Elise which I've grown to love! 

Input appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Yoram Diamand

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8pin-Oct...EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3-6SN7-/283147864911 Hi I bought the Psvane 6sn7SE, but they are too big they will not fit side by side, so I thought placing 2 socket savers under one of the tubes, so the tubes will not touch. It will not look pretty but a shame to throw away those tubes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Matched-...922150?hash=item3f89ce0da6:g:q64AAOSwAHde6Dau


----------



## mordy

It will work - just listen and don’t look lol.....


----------



## LoryWiv

LoryWiv said:


> Question about Feliks-Elise  and Euforia tube compatibility: I have 2 pairs of 6V6 (GEC 6V6G and Ken Rad 6V6GT) ordered and on the way, planning to use with 6V6 --> 6AS7 adapters. I notice from data sheets that the 6V6 heater current is only 0.45A, much lower than the 2.5A standard 6AS7 output tubes and even lower then the standard 0.6A 6SN7 drivers in Elise. The power slots in Elise / Euforia auto-bias, which is good in this regard I think, but is it likely the 6V6 will perform strangely (underpowered, lacking headroom or producing stange tonality?) as powers if I driven by a tube with higher heater current like 6SN7, or is that irrelevant. Also, any reason I can't try 6V6's out as drivers with 7236 or 6080 power tubes, as long as I stay under the total current limit of Elise which is around 6.6A?
> 
> Anyway, the Ken Rads and GEC's combined were not too costly and I was in mood to experiment, now wondering if I was overly impulsive. I certainly don't want to damage Elise which I've grown to love!
> 
> Input appreciated. Thanks!


Update: GEC 6L6G's arrived, they seemed a bit anemic in power slots but I'm enjoying them as drivers with Thomson 6080 powers.  No hint of compatability concerns with Elise, using Deyan's adapters which work flawlessly.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Further rolling on the Feliks Anniversary amp, it seems the components and ciruitry is just different enough to make, my preferences with stock Euforia just off a little. I ran a quad of KT66's in Euforia and while I liked it, sounded like it was just a little lacking in depth and resolution. Not so anymore, this has moved up past the KT66, KT77 and the KT88's.  The quad of KT66 is in number one spot. Go figure.


My latest and last (final) combination just hits all the buttons for me. Very close to H1's last set-up but I find using GEC KT88's more to my liking than GU50'S as drivers although this is also an excellent choice.


----------



## hypnos1

jay2406 said:


> I have heard the Euforia has good synergy with the Meze Empyrean. Can anyone confirm this?



Sorry for the late reply jay...haven't been keeping my eye on the ball here, sad to say!  But as @connieflyer said, I do indeed have the Empys and I personally found them a very good partner for Euforia...which is no surprise really, given they collaborated with Feliks-Audio as part of their development process. I will say however, that I - and others - have found they benefit a good deal from upgraded cable, preferably one using *mono crystal OCC *wire. OCC silver especially gives more 'life', 'bite' and clarity...without the slight harshness that 'ordinary' pure silver can sometimes bring, depending on the rest of one's system (including cables!).



flea22 said:


> Thanks, was hoping there was a switch, don't want my headphones running when using it as a pre amp. I will just unplug the cans.
> 
> Anyway I have received my amp and it is beautiful, also went a bit silly and got some meze empyeans.
> 
> Will post some impressions after burn in. But I can say life is good 😉



Good to see you too have gone for the Empyreans flea22...hope you're liking them as much as I did with Euforia (and still do with my Chord combo!). And good luck with your own tube rolling...you already have some very nice tubes from the look of it ...


----------



## hypnos1

walakalulu said:


> What’s with all this tube rolling business? I bought the Euphoria Anniversary a few months back with the stock tubes and all is hunky dory. I think... What am I missing here?



From what cf says, it looks like you might well not have to fall _too_ far down that darned rabbit hole with the AE amp compared to the original, w...lucky you!! . Mind you, you could just miss out on some interesting/informative/fun times...but as has been said many times, you then run the risk of developing the all-consuming addiction lol!  ...GOOD LUCK!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8pin-Oct...EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3-6SN7-/283147864911 Hi I bought the Psvane 6sn7SE, but they are too big they will not fit side by side, so I thought placing 2 socket savers under one of the tubes, so the tubes will not touch. It will not look pretty but a shame to throw away those tubes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Matched-...922150?hash=item3f89ce0da6:g:q64AAOSwAHde6Dau



Will be interesting to hear what you think of them  Y D...and you must send a photo - if you dare lol!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Further rolling on the Feliks Anniversary amp, it seems the components and ciruitry is just different enough to make, my preferences with stock Euforia just off a little. I ran a quad of KT66's in Euforia and while I liked it, sounded like it was just a little lacking in depth and resolution. Not so anymore, this has moved up past the KT66, KT77 and the KT88's.  The quad of KT66 is in number one spot. Go figure.



Hi cf. Glad to hear you're very impressed with the AE Euforia, and that it seems to be warranting the not inconsiderable price increase! 

And from what you say re. how differently tubes are performing compared to original, I must admit I'm a little surprised. But then, all the 'alternative' tubes we've used aren't specifically configured for and so logically must respond differently to a changed circuit/components...again also depending as usual upon the rest of the system. It will be interesting to see if things change at all further down the line. But it sure is good news that stock tubes perform so well, and better than as stock for the original...ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 1, 2020)

barontan2418 said:


> My latest and last (final) combination just hits all the buttons for me. Very close to H1's last set-up but I find using GEC KT88's more to my liking than GU50'S as drivers although this is also an excellent choice.



Phew...had a lot of catching up to do here! And so many different tube combos folks can play with, to be sure. But of all, I must admit you now have my all-time favourite set of tubes bt...it's such a shame those original GEC KT88/TT21s are so expensive these days. And combined with GU50s as (dual) powers especially, surely a combo hard to beat IMHO!...HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

walakalulu said:


> Funny old world - whilst happy (so far) with stock tubes, I changed the input cables from a low capacitance broadcast cable to a pricey Lessloss jobbie which resulted in a significant change in sound. Maybe this needs as much attention as tube rolling?



Ah,w, you've now touched on yet _another_ rabbit hole mon ami! After years of tumbling down the tube experimentation one and thinking I could finally rest easy, I decided to have a further look into _cables_. Having thought I'd reached a peak with using Neotech mono crystal UP-OCC silver throughout my system (DIY cables), including mains/power cords, I experimented using different construction methods...viz basically _dualing_ them, so as to increase isolation and shielding, and decrease capacitance and inductance (all important factors in electron transfer). Anyway, to cut a long story short, performance increase was not just minimal, much to my surprise. But most unexpected of all was further increase from using this method, along with Neotech *solid *UP-OCC silver wire for mains _power_ cords, albeit not to the same degree as for ICs and digital coax.

Unfortunately, such cables using this wire- if they can be found! - would be extremely expensive, and only really viable for the DIYer . Plus, It's quite clear that significant benefit only really comes as one's system reaches much higher levels of resolution. However, my results do show that one _can_ raise the performance bar using really good quality cables, despite the occasional nay sayer lol!  I personally would recommend at least trying (preferably with no obligation to purchase!) cables that use said _mono crystal OCC wire_. The very best is _solid silver_, but most available use stranded. This particular silver wire does not have the sometimes unfortunate character as 'ordinary' pure silver, as mentioned by @OctavianH , but OCC copper might suit more those who are susceptible to treble, and is much cheaper! But whatever, you might well be pleasantly surprised by such a trial. Bear in mind also however, that most gain will come from 'cleaning' the mains electricity supply first, via a good 'conditioner/filter'....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

Can anyone suggest a straightforward, clearly written guide to understanding tube data sheets for the non-audio engineer? In trying non-stock tubes from other families  (KT66-77-88 / 6L6 etc...) with adapters, I want to make certain I don't court too much risk. For example, I know one needs stay to with 6.3 Volt tubes and not exceed 6.6 amps or so (unless external heaters applied) but what of plate dissipation (a rough indicator of power output?) and maximum plate voltage tolerance. If I use a tube with a low max. plate voltage and Elise / Euforia apply more, will that fry the tube? 250-500 range for max. plate voltage seems applicable to many tube types, but I don't see any reference to how much voltage is applied to the plate by our Elise / Euforia amps.

I may be overthinking this but I know just enough to know that I don't know enough.    Both because it's fun to learn and because I don't want to damage Elise or it's precious glass buddies, some basic guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 2, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Can anyone suggest a straightforward, clearly written guide to understanding tube data sheets for the non-audio engineer? In trying non-stock tubes from other families  (KT66-77-88 / 6L6 etc...) with adapters, I want to make certain I don't court too much risk. For example, I know one needs stay to with 6.3 Volt tubes and not exceed 6.6 amps or so (unless external heaters applied) but what of plate dissipation (a rough indicator of power output?) and maximum plate voltage tolerance. If I use a tube with a low max. plate voltage and Elise / Euforia apply more, will that fry the tube? 250-500 range for max. plate voltage seems applicable to many tube types, but I don't see any reference to how much voltage is applied to the plate by our Elise / Euforia amps.
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I know just enough to know that I don't know enough.    Both because it's fun to learn and because I don't want to damage Elise or it's precious glass buddies, some basic guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!



Hi LW. Don't know of any such guide I'm afraid , but probably the best way to get some idea of the applicable values is to study the data sheets for the actual stock tubes used...so, 6SN7 and 6AS7G, and compare with target alternative. And one would certainly not want to try anything with _lower_ ratings! But even then it's going to be hit and miss, depending on just how a tube responds to not having the exact correct bias/plate voltage etc applied...in other words...'_do you feel lucky'?!!_ I count myself extremely fortunate indeed to have played around with tubes that were never dreamt of for use in our own amps for example, and with surprising success (and without blowing up my amps!!)...much to the derision of many in the past, until it became clear this was a practice that could sometimes  be adopted by other amp users even, depending on the amp circuit's versastility!

And so I wish you all the best of luck if you want to continue the search for possible alternative tubes, and that you perhaps find some more that perform well (and safely!) where they 'shouldn't' lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ

Edit : ps. And of course there's the issue of different pin base design/layout. 

And the website for 'Radiomuseum' is an invaluable source for tube info, with alternatives/predecessors/successors etc.


----------



## flea22

jay2406 said:


> I have heard the Euforia has good synergy with the Meze Empyrean. Can anyone confirm this?


I can personally confirm this is a very beautiful combo with great synergy. I would say it is slightly warm with a wide transparent sound stage. But I do get distortion at higher volumes, so if you like your music really loud this is might be a issue.   


hypnos1 said:


> Good to see you too have gone for the Empyreans flea22...hope you're liking them as much as I did with Euforia (and still do with my Chord combo!). And good luck with your own tube rolling...you already have some very nice tubes from the look of it ...



Thanks, really enjoying this combo at the moment, can say it's the best sound I ever heard. Did you have any issues with distortion at higher volumes?  I also see a hugo tt2 in my close future!!!  

Anyway does anyone have any recommendations in 6sn7 driver tubes that work well with 5998/421a power tubes? Not into using adapters (just yet).

Also I have some mullard ecc35 tubes that I think are pretty much a 6sl7, has anyone safely rolled these tubes in the euforia? I emailed feliks about them and they did not recommend using them.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jul 2, 2020)

flea22 said:


> I can personally confirm this is a very beautiful combo with great synergy. I would say it is slightly warm with a wide transparent sound stage. But I do get distortion at higher volumes, so if you like your music really loud this is might be a issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks, really enjoying this combo at the moment, can say it's the best sound I ever heard. Did you have any issues with distortion at higher volumes?  I also see a hugo tt2 in my close future!!!
> ...





Hi f22.

Re. Empys distortion, I must admit I did once get some, but only from Jonas Kaufmann's soaring tenor voice at near ear shattering level!! And this was with some non configured for tubes, especially the EL39s as powers. And yet other alternatives were fine! It would appear that as with other aspects of performance, not only the tubes themselves per se can sometimes bring certain anomalies, but the actual_ combination _of different drivers/powers!... Even more confusing (nay frustrating!) is that this can happen with configured for tubes as well as 'alternatives'. And as if that isn't bad enough, such (same) anomalies can also differ from one system to another lol???!!! ...(one of the less attractive traits of tubes and tube rolling alas, as far as I'm concerned ).

As for 6SN7 recommendations...not so easy I'm afraid. Once again, different systems can give _apparent_ different results, let alone the issue of personal preference. One of the best _general_ descriptions I have found is at Brent Jesse's site : http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
And there's a couple of threads dedicated to both the 6SN7 and 6AS7G/6080...

I once tried a 6SL7 and had to whip it out straight away...horrendous distortion...didn't even try another!

ps. Yes indeed...get saving for that TT2...and then, of course, the m-scaler lol!


----------



## jay2406

hypnos1 said:


> Sorry for the late reply jay...haven't been keeping my eye on the ball here, sad to say!  But as @connieflyer said, I do indeed have the Empys and I personally found them a very good partner for Euforia...which is no surprise really, given they collaborated with Feliks-Audio as part of their development process. I will say however, that I - and others - have found they benefit a good deal from upgraded cable, preferably one using *mono crystal OCC *wire. OCC silver especially gives more 'life', 'bite' and clarity...without the slight harshness that 'ordinary' pure silver can sometimes bring, depending on the rest of one's system (including cables!).


I had a look at cables when I first got the Empyrean but they were £300 to £500 so I just EQ a little to help guitars have more bite with metal music. If I come across one for £200 or less I might try it out after I pay off the credit card from the Euforia purchase. 

What tubes do you use with the Empyrean? I have mine running off the Gold PSVane and some Philips 6080s.


----------



## jay2406

flea22 said:


> I can personally confirm this is a very beautiful combo with great synergy. I would say it is slightly warm with a wide transparent sound stage. But I do get distortion at higher volumes, so if you like your music really loud this is might be a issue.


I haven't experienced any distortion but I have never went above 7 on the Euforia with the Empyrean.


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> ps. Yes indeed...get saving for that TT2...and then, of course, the m-scaler lol!



It seems you like a lot your new combo TT2 + M Scaler. What temps you have on them when using the integrated headphone amplifier?
Does TT2 or M Scaler get quite hot during summer?


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW. Don't know of any such guide I'm afraid , but probably the best way to get some idea of the applicable values is to study the data sheets for the actual stock tubes used...so, 6SN7 and 6AS7G, and compare with target alternative. And one would certainly *not want to try anything with lower ratings*! But even then it's going to be hit and miss, depending on just how a tube responds to not having the exact correct bias/plate voltage etc applied...in other words...'_do you feel lucky'?!!_ I count myself extremely fortunate indeed to have played around with tubes that were never dreamt of for use in our own amps for example, and with surprising success (and without blowing up my amps!!)...much to the derision of many in the past, until it became clear this was a practice that could sometimes  be adopted by other amp users even, depending on the amp circuit's versastility!
> 
> And so I wish you all the best of luck if you want to continue the search for possible alternative tubes, and that you perhaps find some more that perform well (and safely!) where they 'shouldn't' lol!! ...CHEERS!...CJ
> 
> ...


Well-reasoned and well-stated, as is always the case with your posts, @hypnos1. I would add to the valuable list of resources this thread and the experienced counsel of wise folk like you, @connieflyer et al., @mordy, and many others here and on the Ellise thread.

 Sincere thanks and reassuring to see you still checking in on us Feliks - folks! Be well!


----------



## hypnos1

jay2406 said:


> I had a look at cables when I first got the Empyrean but they were £300 to £500 so I just EQ a little to help guitars have more bite with metal music. If I come across one for £200 or less I might try it out after I pay off the credit card from the Euforia purchase.
> 
> What tubes do you use with the Empyrean? I have mine running off the Gold PSVane and some Philips 6080s.



Yo j, a good cable, preferably with mono crystal OCC wire ain't gonna be cheap alas...something to save up for perhaps!  

And I was using mostly the latest family of tubes I experimented with...ie. the KTs - in particular the original GEC TT21 (top anode) version of its KT88, plus the Russian version of the (12 volt) GU50.



OctavianH said:


> It seems you like a lot your new combo TT2 + M Scaler. What temps you have on them when using the integrated headphone amplifier?
> Does TT2 or M Scaler get quite hot during summer?



Yes indeed I do OH...not cheap, but quite special. In my own setup, they measured just 35 degC, in ambient 20 degC...ie. only just warm. And a good bit hotter when used as preamp to my Vincent integrated, but still not overly so. Will measure again when Summer temps rise, but would expect basically the same _difference_ from ambient.


----------



## OctavianH

jay2406 said:


> I had a look at cables when I first got the Empyrean but they were £300 to £500 so I just EQ a little to help guitars have more bite with metal music.



I am not sure about Empyrean or Euforia, but I guess some impressions from Elise are useful. For rock music and metal, where the electric guitar is predominat and important, and also you have fast passages, I prefer to use GEC clear glass KT66 as powers with GE 7581A as drivers. These are no cheap tubes but you can find some cheaper russian reissue versions for sale. To be able to use these tubes on Euforia/Elise you need some 6V6 -> 6AS7 adapters which can be bought in Europe from @Deyan or from Ebay from xulingmrs. These adapters can be used for KT66/KT77/KT88/KT120/KT150/7581A/6L6 and so on but not for EL34. If you filter this thread you can find a lot of information.
The "effect" of the KT66/KT77 with 7581A is that the sound is somehow mid centric, the guitar si put on front and very detailed and this provides a good sound for rock and metal.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> I am not sure about Empyrean or Euforia, but I guess some impressions from Elise are useful. For rock music and metal, where the electric guitar is predominat and important, and also you have fast passages, I prefer to use GEC clear glass KT66 as powers with GE 7581A as drivers. These are no cheap tubes but you can find some cheaper russian reissue versions for sale. To be able to use these tubes on Euforia/Elise you need some 6V6 -> 6AS7 adapters which can be bought in Europe from @Deyan or from Ebay from xulingmrs. These adapters can be used for KT66/KT77/KT88/KT120/KT150/7581A/6L6 and so on but not for EL34. If you filter this thread you can find a lot of information.
> The "effect" of the KT66/KT77 with 7581A is that the sound is somehow mid centric, the guitar si put on front and very detailed and this provides a good sound for rock and metal.


I am using Deyan's 6V6 to 6AS7 adapters with NOS Sylvania VT-115A (a 6L6) quad in Elise. Very clean sounding, good air, balanced across the frequencies, really enjoying it thus far. I may roll in different drivers to add a smidgeon more warmth, but it's quite nice as is.


----------



## OctavianH

I was looking yesterday at this tube, very good that you tried it:







Can you compare it with the ones we already know?


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 3, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I was looking yesterday at this tube, very good that you tried it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Clean" is the word that comes to mind, excellent air, natural stage, no emphasis on any one part of the frequency spectrum.  It handles complex musical passages and instrument delineation better than the 6080, and seems faster as well. On the other hand stage is not quite as wide, but i like it! The GE 7581A as driver is definitely warmer, perhaps more exciting, but occasionally "muddier". My next listen will be with these as powers driven by another warmer tube, such as GEC 6V6 or Brimar 6SN7.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 4, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> "Clean" is the word that comes to mind, excellent air, natural stage, no emphasis on any one part of the frequency spectrum.  It handles complex musical passages and instrument delineation better than the 6080, and seems faster as well. On the other hand stage is not quite as wide, but i like it! The GE 7581A as driver is definitely warmer, perhaps more exciting, but occasionally "muddier". My next listen will be with these as powers driven by another warmer tube, such as GEC 6V6 or Brimar 6SN7.



I know, photo or it didn't happen. GEC 6V6G driving Sylvania VT-115A in Elise = Wow, just wow!


----------



## OctavianH

I would not mind if you tell us more about that "wow".


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 4, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I would not mind if you tell us more about that "wow".


Hi @OctavianH, sorry not trying to hold back, just in one of the modes where all sounds "right" yet a bit hard to describe. The combination is pretty much as I hoped, as noted several posts prior: The VT-115A as powers emphasize clarity, detail retrieval, air and balance across the frequencies while the GEC drivers add more warmth and musicality to the party, while still delivering on the technicalities. Really nice net effect together. I've not found a combination that brings this much "sparkle" up top, solid bass and liquid mids. It's sounding great with all genres, with the only caveat that mids are not quite as forward as I prefer and it is not very forgiving of older or poorly recorded source material. These are small deviations from my ideal, by no means  major flaws. The tubes installed together are also quite handsome in person, classy & classic looking.


----------



## OctavianH

I do not know why this description reminds me of GE 6550A as powers. So the VT-115A might be somehow similar?


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 4, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I do not know why this description reminds me of GE 6550A as powers. So the VT-115A might be somehow similar?


I haven't heard the GE 6550A, wish I could offer comparison. If I am correct 6550 is an alternate name or at least similar to KT88, and I've enjoyed the Genalex Gold Lion new production KT88's quite a bit. However,  the VT-115A beat them in most respects, sounding more natural and organic. The GL KT88's do a lot of things right but sometimes sound a bit artificial, like you are aware you are listening to reproduced music, not just music.  Not so with the VT-115A.

I can also compare the VT-115A to the Tung-Sol 7236, which is my other go to power for a balanced, uncolored presentation. I often find the 7236 to sound a bit "sterile" / solid state  although they are really incisive, clean and spacious. Compared to VT-115A the 7236 may also have better stage but in other aspects I prefer the VT-115A for an overall less analytical signature while still bring detail and not much coloration.

Hope that helps!


----------



## jay2406

OctavianH said:


> I am not sure about Empyrean or Euforia, but I guess some impressions from Elise are useful. For rock music and metal, where the electric guitar is predominat and important, and also you have fast passages, I prefer to use GEC clear glass KT66 as powers with GE 7581A as drivers. These are no cheap tubes but you can find some cheaper russian reissue versions for sale. To be able to use these tubes on Euforia/Elise you need some 6V6 -> 6AS7 adapters which can be bought in Europe from @Deyan or from Ebay from xulingmrs. These adapters can be used for KT66/KT77/KT88/KT120/KT150/7581A/6L6 and so on but not for EL34. If you filter this thread you can find a lot of information.
> The "effect" of the KT66/KT77 with 7581A is that the sound is somehow mid centric, the guitar si put on front and very detailed and this provides a good sound for rock and metal.


Thanks for the info I will look into it.


----------



## jay2406

What would you guys say is the going rate for a pair of Bendix 6080WB or a Tung-Sol 7236 or 6080 now a days?

I just ordered a matched pair of Thompson 6080WA from England so I am starting small but was just wondering how expensive the most sought after tubes are getting.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, I would say that I've spend on tubes around 5x amplifier's value. )


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> I know, photo or it didn't happen. GEC 6V6G driving Sylvania VT-115A in Elise = Wow, just wow!


That's one nice looking group there LW...and glad to hear it sounds good too!  (with totally black background?)...WELL DONE!



LoryWiv said:


> I haven't heard the GE 6550A, wish I could offer comparison. If I am correct 6550 is an alternate name or at least similar to KT88, and I've enjoyed the Genalex Gold Lion new production KT88's quite a bit. However,  the VT-115A beat them in most respects, sounding more natural and organic. The GL KT88's do a lot of things right but sometimes sound a bit artificial, like you are aware you are listening to reproduced music, not just music.  Not so with the VT-115A.
> 
> I can also compare the VT-115A to the Tung-Sol 7236, which is my other go to power for a balanced, uncolored presentation. I often find the 7236 to sound a bit "sterile" / solid state  although they are really incisive, clean and spacious. Compared to VT-115A the 7236 may also have better stage but in other aspects I prefer the VT-115A for an overall less analytical signature while still bring detail and not much coloration.
> 
> Hope that helps!



Yes indeed LW...good though the GL reissues are, I'm afraid they're no match for the original GEC tubes...but a lot cheaper lol!


----------



## connieflyer

Like O has posted, I have to agree with him, have been using the 7581drivers and KT66 as powers and finding them extremely satisfying.  After a little over a week, am now trying the 7581 drivers with the KT77 and so far this is a great sound also.  Initially, it seems there is a bit more bass note to the music.  This is music I have listened to for years, so no surprises. Power is increased slightly, and separation is great. Overall a great start.I will use this for a few weeks before tying an old favorite on the stock Euforia, a quad of 7581 matched tubes.  I like this combo in the past and interested to see how it would work in the Anniversary amp. Boy, the bass line is stronger, more intense, this is not to say it detracts from the rest of the spectrum, just adds a stronger bass line. Will be interesting to see how this works out.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> Well, I would say that I've spend on tubes around 5x amplifier's value. )



Ah OH...a tale told by most of us alas! ...boxes of 'em sitting forlornly in the attic - and elsewhere!! And although sometimes I now wish I'd discovered the TT2/M-scaler combo a long time ago, I wouldn't have missed the tube journey for anything. Plus, it has definitely helped me to recognise/assess the many aspects of sound reproduction more accurately...much more so than trying just a few SS amps, to be sure. But, of course, the advantage of tubes is that one can tailor the sound more easily for a particular preference, even though in the main they are actually _altering_ the 'pure' original signal...much sexier and more fun than using an equaliser though lol!!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Like O has posted, I have to agree with him, have been using the 7581drivers and KT66 as powers and finding them extremely satisfying.  After a little over a week, am now trying the 7581 drivers with the KT77 and so far this is a great sound also.  Initially, it seems there is a bit more bass note to the music.  This is music I have listened to for years, so no surprises. Power is increased slightly, and separation is great. Overall a great start.I will use this for a few weeks before tying an old favorite on the stock Euforia, a quad of 7581 matched tubes.  I like this combo in the past and interested to see how it would work in the Anniversary amp. Boy, the bass line is stronger, more intense, this is not to say it detracts from the rest of the spectrum, just adds a stronger bass line. Will be interesting to see how this works out.



Hi cf. From your findings re. the AE amp vs. the original Euforia, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that F-A not only upgraded certain components, but have actually re-tuned performance parameters...which could be a mixed blessing IMHO...and certainly one to confuse matters lol!  But so long as you continue to find combos that sound better than original, that's good news indeed...I look forward to hearing how other combos perform now ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

jay2406 said:


> What would you guys say is the going rate for a pair of Bendix 6080WB or a Tung-Sol 7236 or 6080 now a days?
> 
> I just ordered a matched pair of Thompson 6080WA from England so I am starting small but was just wondering how expensive the most sought after tubes are getting.


Hi jay2406,
There is an easy way to determine the current market price of tubes. Go to eBay and type in what you are looking for. Then go to the left side of the screen and scroll down almost to the end - there you will find a check box that says: Sold Items. By clicking on it you will see what this item sold for during the past 60 days. You will get a good idea of high vs low prices - some selling prices are all over the map, and others have a more narrow range.
Here is the Bendix:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Bendix+6080WB&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
Tung Sol 7632:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...w=Bendix+6080WB&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1
In short, if you can find tubes from a reputable seller (check feedback) in the lower range (or below asking prices) you are doing well. Also be aware of that the Bendix tubes must have graphite plates to be the real thing - there are Bendix tubes of the same designation with regular plates. 
Also keep in mind that many tubes come under different names and buying a Raytheon 6080WB graphite plate (or Tung Sol or Chatham) could save you a lot of money.


----------



## connieflyer

Continuing on this morning listening with the Oppo PM-1 and having a great time. Listening to this song, , even though it is not a high quality recording, and on utube, the sound of her voice, especially when they harmonize, is spectacular.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 5, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> That's one nice looking group there LW...and glad to hear it sounds good too!  (with totally black background?)...WELL DONE!


Hi H, good to have your continued wisdom and presence on the forum even as you've moved on to Chord SS. Interesting that you should mention black background. Yes, I believe the tubes are quite silent, but have had a very low level hiss, audible with headphones, for a  month or so, even with different tube sets. More prominent in left channel, and I can really only hear it with no music or soft music such as classical piano. it reminds me of the hiss one gets at times using IEM's when the amp / impedance isn't properly matched. I've re-made all connections, have a power conditioner as in my signature below, and just today tried a few drops of deoxit on Elise's sockets with tubes removed of course, then re-seated all and it does seem the hiss is less prominent. I must admit it is very soft, low-level hiss and much of the time not an issue but of course rankles the audio perfectionist in me. Any thoughts would be welcomed!


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Hi H, good to have your continued wisdom and presence on the forum even as you've moved on to Chord SS. Interesting that you should mention black background. Yes, I believe the tubes are quite silent, but have had a very low level hiss, audible with headphones, for a  month or so, even with different tube sets. More prominent in left channel, and I can really only hear it with no music or soft music such as classical piano. it reminds me of the hiss one gets at times using IEM's when the amp / impedance isn't properly matched. I've re-made all connections, have a power conditioner as in my signature below, and just today tried a few drops of deoxit on Elise's sockets with tubes removed of course, then re-seated all and it does seem the hiss is less prominent. I must admit it is very soft, low-level hiss and much of the time not an issue but of course rankles the audio perfectionist in me. Any thoughts would be welcomed!



Ah LW...an annoying anomaly second only to the ubiquitous _hum_ issue lol!  As with the latter there can, unfortunately, be a whole host of causes, but you seem to have tackled some of the main ones..._poor contacts!_ 

First, I presume that you've tried _all_ possible combinations of different tubes, in case it's just _one_ rogue in the pack...and especially back to all stock tubes. 

Second...have you checked/cleaned _all_ other signal _and_ power cable connections and plugs, right back to the very first mains outlet?

Third...if first 2 don't remedy it, try a different source if possible, computers being notorious for generating noise of course!... along with as many different cables as you can manage...plus other cans, again if poss (headphone drivers/cable/plug can sometimes be the culprit). Then try without the Furman, just to eliminate that also.

Fourth...have you introduced any new possible sources of RFI/EMI around the time it started...and that can mean _any_ electrical/electronic item?

If all these fail to bring an answer, it would then be pointing more to the amp itself alas...although sometimes, such anomalies can disappear as fast as they come lol! And so more time yet may be needed to see if you too are this lucky .

Whatever, I wish you the best of luck, as just like yourself I cannot stand the slightest noise disturbing my music, especially in the quiet passages...hence my refusal to return to vinyl, with the almost impossible (and/or affordable!) task of removing _all_ hiss/clicks/pops/thuds/plops from _all_ pressed recordings/playback, no matter what vinyl lovers say lol! The same goes for tubes that even though very good, suffer from 'noise' of some kind, no matter how slight!! ...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Ah LW...an annoying anomaly second only to the ubiquitous _hum_ issue lol!  As with the latter there can, unfortunately, be a whole host of causes, but you seem to have tackled some of the main ones..._poor contacts!_
> 
> First, I presume that you've tried _all_ possible combinations of different tubes, in case it's just _one_ rogue in the pack...and especially back to all stock tubes.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, @hypnos1. Tried most of the above except removing the Furman as it would be quite challenging (more connections needed than outlets without the unit). Is that a likely culprit?


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks so much, @hypnos1. Tried most of the above except removing the Furman as it would be quite challenging (more connections needed than outlets without the unit). Is that a likely culprit?



Hi LW...wouldn't have really thought so, but one needs to eliminate _everything possible_ before settling on the amp itself as culprit lol...good luck!


----------



## canfabulous

Hi all!  Does anyone have any DAC pairing suggestions to go with the Euforia?   (I’d be using an iPad or computer as a steaming source). Thanks in advance.


----------



## OctavianH

Hi,

Several users here including myself have paired successfuly Euforia with Chord DACs. So, depending on your budget you can take a look on 2Qute, Qutest or Hugo 2.
Since you already have an external amplifier and your setup does not need portability I would say you can take a look on Qutest. It is small but it delivers a lot for its price.


----------



## canfabulous

Thanks - I was looking at the Qutest.  One of the thoughts I did have was potentially selling my Mojo and iFi Micro BL dac/amps and then getting a Hugo 2, which could be used for both portable and desktop setups (my wife would probably appreciate the smaller number of ”boxes”).  Allternatively, keep the iFi, sell the Mojo, and add a Qutest for the desktop setup.  I suppose the Hugo2 has the advantage of being able to be hooked up with the 2go streamer option.


----------



## OctavianH

Hugo 2 and Qutest have the same chip inside, only that the Hugo 2 benefits from the battery and portability. The Qutest will need a LPS to sound at its best. It is hard to advise you, maybe it will be the best to try to demo them at one of the showrooms.


----------



## canfabulous

Yeah, a demo is a tad difficult at the moment given lockdown, but that would be more ideal although I find that a couple of hours in dedicated room isn’t long enough to ”live” with a device and my desire for new toys takes over! 

My gut reaction is to simplify - so consolidate to a Hugo 2 that I can use both at a stationary desk or when I’m in other areas of the house.  It looks like a Hugo2 is about the same price as the i-FI and Qutest together so cost wise it’s a dead heat.  I do really like the iFi though generally - such a versatile unit - but I’m not quite in a world where I could have them all!


----------



## Yoram Diamand

The 6sn7 SE sound nice, and look strange


----------



## Yoram Diamand

canfabulous said:


> Hi all!  Does anyone have any DAC pairing suggestions to go with the Euforia?   (I’d be using an iPad or computer as a steaming source). Thanks in advance.


Hi I use an Ayre QB-9 which you can upgrade into a magic machine: The twenty upgrade, all USB. The Ayre QB9 24/96 second hand costs like 700 euro, the upgrade 1790 euro.I am okay with my dac.


----------



## iFi audio

canfabulous said:


> Allternatively, keep the iFi


----------



## Scutey

Yoram Diamand said:


> The 6sn7 SE sound nice, and look strange


Wow that looks different!, I wonder how they sound compared to standard shape Psvane's.


----------



## OctavianH

I've seen that F.A. posted one hour ago on Instagram a picture of a wooden remote control:






I am not sure to which product or future product is belonging, but maybe it is related to a future headphone amplifier because of the tags under the picture.
What to say, at least for me, the remote control for a headphone tube amplifier is not a necessary feature, but anyway.


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> I've seen that F.A. posted one hour ago on Instagram a picture of a wooden remote control:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



?????!!!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

canfabulous said:


> Yeah, a demo is a tad difficult at the moment given lockdown, but that would be more ideal although I find that a couple of hours in dedicated room isn’t long enough to ”live” with a device and my desire for new toys takes over!
> 
> My gut reaction is to simplify - so consolidate to a Hugo 2 that I can use both at a stationary desk or when I’m in other areas of the house.  It looks like a Hugo2 is about the same price as the i-FI and Qutest together so cost wise it’s a dead heat.  I do really like the iFi though generally - such a versatile unit - but I’m not quite in a world where I could have them all!



Hi canfab...and welcome to the Euforia club.

I personally was also impressed with Hugo2 as DAC to my own Euforia, especially with hp out facility as an added bonus lol! But I'd like to just point out a couple of things.

Firstly, and one I did in fact curse Chord for wink is the internal diameter of the inset RCA out sockets....they're very restriced/ive! Many top flight RCA plugs are simply too big in the jaw to fit inside lol!! Which really annoyed me as I wanted to use what I regard as the superior design of the KLEI 'Harmony' range. Luckily, I was able to file down their jaw diameter, as they're not metal. But even then, it was a tricky fit, as one really needs plugs with 'long reach' pins, given how far back the signal contact bar sits inside! And said plug end diameter _*must* _be slightly below 13mm to ensure a fit.

Secondly, and a very useful feature indeed IMHO is that its output can be altered via the remote, and which therefore is very handy indeed when not wanting to manually alter the amp's volume.

Its small form factor is also very handy...how such a small unit can do the honours so well as both DAC and headphone amp is some kind of miracle in my book lol .

Good luck with whatever course you choose, and I hope you enjoy Euforia as much as I did...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## canfabulous

hypnos1 said:


> Hi canfab...and welcome to the Euforia club.
> 
> I personally was also impressed with Hugo2 as DAC to my own Euforia, especially with hp out facility as an added bonus lol! But I'd like to just point out a couple of things.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the post - really appreciate the tips.

Im pretty much set my sights on a Hugo 2 now and looking at options as I’ve a couple of things to trade-in.  Considering a 2go option for it but not 100% sure. 

I’ve also managed to find a Euforia sig edition available for home demo and waiting for that to arrive - may even be Saturday - can’t wait to hear it!


----------



## iFi audio

OctavianH said:


> What to say, at least for me, the remote control for a headphone tube amplifier is not a necessary feature, but anyway.



I wouldn't cry if it's not there either. But if it's, I'll take it  

That wooden controller looks great!


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 9, 2020)

There is an interesting discussion going on *here* about using non-standard tubes in OTL's that may raise source output impedance and impact sound. Please scroll up a bit from my post for the context. I believe Elise and Euforia have output impedance in the 100 ohm range at baseline. Besides the standard sound advice to 'trust your ears", any thoughts on whether our rolling in KT or other non-design standard tubes may further increase output impedance and introduce noise or other unwanted effects?

Thoughts on this point may help guide whether my future tube questing should or shouldn't stray beyond 6AS7 / 6SN7 and variants thereof. So many tubes, so many rabbit holes, so little time. 

Appreciated.


----------



## OctavianH

hypnos1 said:


> ?????!!!!...CJ



That was also my reaction. But from what we can see, we have there:
- on/off
- 1/2/3 switches for most probably inputs
- vol +/-
- mute

So it has to be the new amp they are working on since several years. This one they've already mentioned several times:











As you can see this one has 3 inputs. What to say, definitely not a product for me, but might be a good selling point for them.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Scutey said:


> Wow that looks different!, I wonder how they sound compared to standard shape Psvane's.


In China Aliexpress they are a bit more expensive than the Psvane CV181-T2 but on ebay cheaper, so I do not know what Psvane thinks and how good they should be. I am quite fond of the sound, and I kept listening to them, making the Psvane CV181-T2 the spare pair. I could not find contact details of Psvane. They can be a bit loud, clear and present.


----------



## hypnos1

canfabulous said:


> Thanks for the post - really appreciate the tips.
> 
> Im pretty much set my sights on a Hugo 2 now and looking at options as I’ve a couple of things to trade-in.  Considering a 2go option for it but not 100% sure.
> 
> I’ve also managed to find a Euforia sig edition available for home demo and waiting for that to arrive - may even be Saturday - can’t wait to hear it!



Wow canfab...an AE model Euforia? By all accounts quite a sigificant improvement over the 'standard' model. Mind you, if you are in fact more likely to be going for the latter, it might just be a little misleading lol?  But then, even if so, I doubt you'd be able to spare your wallet's pain!!! ...Good times ahead methinks...


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> There is an interesting discussion going on *here* about using non-standard tubes in OTL's that may raise source output impedance and impact sound. Please scroll up a bit from my post for the context. I believe Elise and Euforia have output impedance in the 100 ohm range at baseline. Besides the standard sound advice to 'trust your ears", any thoughts on whether our rolling in KT or other non-design standard tubes may further increase output impedance and introduce noise or other unwanted effects?
> 
> Thoughts on this point may help guide whether my future tube questing should or shouldn't stray beyond 6AS7 / 6SN7 and variants thereof. So many tubes, so many rabbit holes, so little time.
> 
> Appreciated.



Hi LW. I'm afraid I reckon the only practical answer here can indeed be the 'trust your ears' one...along with the numbers of folks who haven't experienced any untoward issues from using such 'alternative' tubes over a long period of time. There are too many instances of what _should_ and/or should _not_ be done in hi-fidom proving far from universally applicable lol!


----------



## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> That was also my reaction. But from what we can see, we have there:
> - on/off
> - 1/2/3 switches for most probably inputs
> - vol +/-
> ...



Yo OH. the bottom one is what I mentioned a long while back as their new 'flagship' model, but which was put on hold for various reasons...viz. a beast of a 2A3-based amp, both for headphones and speakers, with option for Stax output. Dread to think of the price, mind you (let alone the size/weight!!) .


----------



## canfabulous

The demo unit has landed!  It's mine for a week or so... looking forward to "working from home" ...


----------



## OctavianH

Be aware that this demo unit might be good, but it shares the stock tubes, and you might enjoy a lot more the other types we are using like KT88/77/66. Enjoy!


----------



## canfabulous

OctavianH said:


> Be aware that this demo unit might be good, but it shares the stock tubes, and you might enjoy a lot more the other types we are using like KT88/77/66. Enjoy!



ahhhh... why do I feel like this is just the start of a tube-tastic adventure?


----------



## OctavianH

canfabulous said:


> ahhhh... why do I feel like this is just the start of a tube-tastic adventure?



It all starts like this, later you realize that you wallet stole you 10 000 eur


----------



## LoryWiv

canfabulous said:


> ahhhh... why do I feel like this is just the start of a tube-tastic adventure?


Because it surely is!!!


----------



## canfabulous (Jul 10, 2020)

Ha, well I’ve had a few hours (thankfully someone else has had the job of running it all in for me), and I am really enjoying it.  More guts and air, if that at all makes sense (hard not to use the usually fluffy hifi terms).  It‘s a very engaging listen, which creates a problem as I am desperate to get up and dance, but I can’t as the amp is on my desk and the chord to my ZMFs is only 5ft long.  LOL.

I’m curious to see how the experience compares to the Hugo 2 when that arrives.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> It all starts like this, later you realize that you wallet stole you 10 000 eur


Yep all true .


----------



## canfabulous

OctavianH said:


> It all starts like this, later you realize that you wallet stole you 10 000 eur





Scutey said:


> Yep all true .



I liked both these posts, but I‘m not sure my wallet or wife likes it... please don’t tell her!


----------



## Scutey

I think I can safely say neither will like it!, rest assured though, you're secret it safe with us! .


----------



## OctavianH

Yes, in other words, I could be a second Bill Gates but I bought Elise and spent a fortune on it. And the most perverse thing of this hobby is that I do not regret a penny.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Yes, in other words, I could be a second Bill Gates but I bought Elise and spent a fortune on it. And the most perverse thing of this hobby is that I do not regret a penny.


Never a truer word was spoken, tubes, especially NOS/old stock tubes are a bit like the classic cars of audio.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, I was never fascinated by cars, nor I have a driver's license and I am forever grateful to my girlfriend that she is a very good driver and takes me to a lot of places where I just drink some beers, but when I look to these 2 buddies, I do not really think there is something more beautiful:







This is pure beauty. By the way I never understood how the GEC logo evolved, I thought first that the yellow one is newer, then I saw tubes manufactured in '73 with the green one. So, hell knows, maybe it was factory related or something, but I know these were both made at Hammersmith.


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Well, I was never fascinated by cars, nor I have a driver's license and I am forever grateful to my girlfriend that she is a very good driver and takes me to a lot of places where I just drink some beers, but when I look to these 2 buddies, I do not really think there is something more beautiful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wondered the same thing too, my thought was the yellow label was for international sale/use.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Well, I was never fascinated by cars, nor I have a driver's license and I am forever *grateful to my girlfriend* that she is a very good *driver* and *takes me to a lot of places* where I just drink some beers, but when I look to *these 2 buddies, I do not really think there is something more beautifu*l:


Hmmmm, if your girlfriend sees this post you may be walking to the beer pub from now on.


----------



## OctavianH

Actually I am walking to my favourite beer pub because where we live is close to the new center. And my girl knows that I love tubes above everything, she is gelous about other girls but not about them. I guess I am lucky, she's a keeper.


----------



## Lucky87 (Jul 11, 2020)

Hey guys I ended up going back to my stock Euforia and find it a bit more pleasing to my ears vs my 4 x QUAD GL KT88's plus I was getting a bad hum when I used my Utopia's but with my other headphones I was not which is odd. After going back to stock tubes I have been thinking of selling it along with my Utopia's. But I wanted to try my Chord Dave with the Stock Euforia with the Utopia's. I find the Utopia's being kinda of in your face presentation with everything being thrown at you at once. And find them hard to listen too with certain genre of music. Probably my fault because I can not chew gum and listening without having a problem.  Well I am glad to say there is no way in hell I will every let go these 3 of kind combo just wow. All I can say is unbelievable on what I am hearing and honestly I never thought the Utopia's would have such a big sound stage with depth and width and better placement of music. It gives you the music better balanced and not so much in your face everything at once approach. I started watching on YouTube a channel called Kenrick Sound and his channel basically restores and customizes older JBL speakers. And allot of there clients have listening bars where they install and will show some footage of it and play some music so you get an idea. And after listening to these HUGE SPEAKERS seeing how big the presence they give off I kinda feel this is what I am hearing the the triple combo.  Sorry for no pictures of the combo in action I disconnected the Euforia and moving furniture around and plan on going back to my 2.0 setup because I also use it as a PREAMP for my system as well once in a while. I need to do some furniture hacks where I can store the Euforia inside my setup and when I would like to use it be able to open the cabinet doors and slide it outward. Will so pictures so after completion of everything.


----------



## mordy

You could keep the amp inside a cabinet if you provide fan cooling. Here is a suggestion for inexpensive dual fans that run off a USB adapter - I have these and they are very quiet and do a good job of cooling. These are 4" but you can get 3" for $15.



Look up this on Amazon: AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7, Quiet Dual 120mm USB Fan for Receiver DVR Playstation Xbox Computer Cabinet Cooling 
$19.99


----------



## connieflyer

Another good combo Kt 88 power, KenRad Vt231 black


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> Another good combo Kt 88 power, KenRad Vt231 black


My latest combination. TT21's + GU50's with GE7581A doing an excellent job as drivers.


----------



## canfabulous

connieflyer said:


> Another good combo Kt 88 power, KenRad Vt231 black



What do you think of the Golden Dragon's?  Would you use them as the driver tubes too or never consider that?


----------



## connieflyer

I have not gotten around to those tubes but there are so many good combinations that I think I've got enough tubes to last me the rest of my life and probably a couple other people's!


----------



## canfabulous

Thanks - I mean, how are you finding the KT88 powers?  Anything you'd call out specifically about their sound? (I know it's relative as we may hear things differently)


----------



## barontan2418

canfabulous said:


> Thanks - I mean, how are you finding the KT88 powers?  Anything you'd call out specifically about their sound? (I know it's relative as we may hear things differently)


Hi canfabulous.
Most of the regular posters have used KT88's in both power and driver position tube used in most cases was Gold Lion which has a good reputation. Many have posted their findings which have mostly been very favourable. Good bass and soundstage, even holographic sound being noted by some. I would advise taking a look back at the thread after doing a search for KT88.


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 27, 2020)

canafabulous, if you want a really good combination,  I went back to an old favorite, they sound excellent.  Gold Lion KT88 power, Valvo EL 11 mesh plates, which are very hard to find, but the difference between the regular Valvo plate EL 11 and the mesh plates is like night and day.


----------



## canfabulous

Thanks mate.  I'm curious, did you audition any other amps before settling on the Euforia?


----------



## connieflyer

I worked my way up from a few less powerful  amps. Then bought an Elise, the Euforia and now the 20 year anniversary amp. Had a few solid state amps, for headphone use. Main system is, ss Anthem. Mix 720


----------



## canfabulous

connieflyer said:


> I worked my way up from a few less powerful  amps. Then bought an Elise, the Euforia and now the 20 year anniversary amp. Had a few solid state amps, for headphone use. Main system is, ss Anthem. Mix 720



Thanks.


----------



## walakalulu

I’ll be trying the Manley Absolute in a few weeks time when a few cross the pond and comparing it to the 20th Anniversary.


----------



## connieflyer

When I am done with this one, I am picking up a McIntosh Mha 150


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> When I am done with this one, I am picking up a McIntosh Mha 150


What - no more tubes?


----------



## OctavianH

walakalulu said:


> I’ll be trying the Manley Absolute in a few weeks time when a few cross the pond and comparing it to the 20th Anniversary.



That amp reminds me of this:






You might have some hard times trying it


----------



## mordy (Jul 21, 2020)

https://drop.com/buy/manley-absolute-headphone-amplifier
I did not realize that this headphone amp is a headphone stand as well:


----------



## connieflyer

mordy said:


> What - no more tubes?


Nope, I have auditioned this a couple of times and I am quite impressed with it.  Have done the tube chasing routine for quite some time and ended up quite a stash of tubes that I no longer use. Not that they are and any good, but when you finally find the ones that you think are the best sounding you tend to not use the rest of them. Lately I have been going back over the ones that I knew impressed me in the past But you just cannot get past those big blue meters!


----------



## LoryWiv

walakalulu said:


> I’ll be trying the Manley Absolute in a few weeks time when a few cross the pond and comparing it to the 20th Anniversary.


Nice, it will be great to hear your comparison of Euforia 20 Anniv. versus the Manley!


----------



## mordy (Jul 21, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Nope, I have auditioned this a couple of times and I am quite impressed with it.  Have done the tube chasing routine for quite some time and ended up quite a stash of tubes that I no longer use. Not that they are and any good, but when you finally find the ones that you think are the best sounding you tend to not use the rest of them. Lately I have been going back over the ones that I knew impressed me in the past But you just cannot get past those big blue meters!


CF - do I have something for you!



At $1800 it is only a third of the cost of the amp, and it tells time too.



https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/specialty-products/McIntosh-Clock
PS: If you want to keep track of the seconds as well, you will need your $20 Casio watch.


----------



## connieflyer

But this one doesn't have a dac!


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> CF - do I have something for you!
> 
> At $1800 it is only a third of the cost of the amp, and it tells time too.
> 
> ...



Just rediscovered my HD650's with the below combo. Michael Jacksons Thriller never sounded so good. EL32 you little beauties.


----------



## OctavianH

Ha! I liked these Marconi EL32 on Elise with the KT88. I am glad someone else like this one.


----------



## connieflyer

Used to use a quad of these, might have to try again


----------



## connieflyer

Marconi are quite good


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> But this one doesn't have a dac!


Well, what can u expect for a mere $1800?


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Just rediscovered my HD650's with the below combo. Michael Jacksons Thriller never sounded so good. EL32 you little beauties.


I find it very interesting that the HD650 is still considered a top tier headphone even though it has been in production for around 17 years.
An expression that comes up many times is “that it scales very well” which I take to mean that the sound improves with better equipment.
Currently it is available at Drop (formerly Massdrop) for $220 but some time back it was on sale for $195.
Another thing I find very encouraging is that they have sold over 100,000 of them which shows that people appreciate good sound.


----------



## OctavianH

I owned both HD 650 and HD 600 and in the end kept the HD 600. It is the only headphone I still own, after I sold all my collection, besides T1 2nd gen which is the daily driver. I tried it several days ago, with a custom cable which removes a part of the well known Sennheiser veil and I have to say it still has to say something in 2020. However, it cannot match more expensive headphones like T1. It is somehow normal, I paid for it around 350 EUR many years ago.


----------



## mordy (Jul 22, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I owned both HD 650 and HD 600 and in the end kept the HD 600. It is the only headphone I still own, after I sold all my collection, besides T1 2nd gen which is the daily driver. I tried it several days ago, with a custom cable which removes a part of the well known Sennheiser veil and I have to say it still has to say something in 2020. However, it cannot match more expensive headphones like T1. It is somehow normal, I paid for it around 350 EUR many years ago.


IMHO the way a headphone sounds depends on your equipment. With the Elise/Euforia I preferred the T1 Gen1 over the HD 650, but with my Glenn OTL I liked the HD650 better. But I like even better an even older headphone from Sennheiser - the HD250 II which is what I use daily (better bass).
A long time ago I owned the HD600 but I never liked it - could have been caused by owning a Headroom MAX ss headphone amp that never sounded good to me.


----------



## OctavianH

For me the HD 600 was more "linear" and better for rock music. The HD 650 was nice for Depeche Mode or Michael Jackson or stuff like this, but for rock and mids the HD 600 was my choice. Of course, everything changed when buying T1 and now I am at the second pair, so I use them for several years and I have no need to change anything.


----------



## barontan2418 (Jul 22, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> For me the HD 600 was more "linear" and better for rock music. The HD 650 was nice for Depeche Mode or Michael Jackson or stuff like this, but for rock and mids the HD 600 was my choice. Of course, everything changed when buying T1 and now I am at the second pair, so I use them for several years and I have no need to change anything.



I listen solely to Elise with T1 1st gen but find the HD800 a better fit with Euforia. I still have both 600 and 650 of which the 650 gets more play time, which isn't saying much because I rarely unplug the other two phones. Although I'm sure their are many newer TOTL phones which out perform my own collection I can't see myself upgrading any time soon. After all it would mean starting tube rolling all over again
😩


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## OctavianH

I found a book online here, *Stokes - 70 Years of radio tubes and valves*:
https://nvhrbiblio.nl/biblio/boek/Stokes - 70 Years of radio tubes and valves.pdf

Excerpt from pg. 72, the ones on the right are my currently powers:






Happy reading, folks!


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## Scutey

I've owned both the Senn 600 and 650 (twice), they were ok, but didn't do much for me, at the time though I had a much inferior system, I can't help thinking If I'd held onto them they might now sound significantly better.


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## barontan2418

Scutey said:


> I've owned both the Senn 600 and 650 (twice), they were ok, but didn't do much for me, at the time though I had a much inferior system, I can't help thinking If I'd held onto them they might now sound significantly better.


Yes both still seem to be popular considering their age now. Mine sit on a shelf for weeks at a time then I'll find a tube combination I think will bring out their best. My first tube amp was the Bottlehead Crack and that matched quite well with the 650 especially with the right tubes as did the T1.


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## Bonddam (Jul 25, 2020)

Looking at getting the anniversary model. For power tubes is there new production model I could learn about?
Started looking for tubes and find it a little confusing. Not sure which to buy.
Is eBay the best place to buy NOS tubes for this amp?

Im trying to decide on power tubes to go with the stock PSvane drivers. If someone could tell me what power tube to get that has strong bass and overall clear presentation I’m not bothered by highs.

I’m very bad at figuring what models work even though they put them in the manual. 
im not trying to get into buying tubes to roll. Just want something that sounds good and easy to get.


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## OctavianH

Bonddam said:


> Im trying to decide on power tubes to go with the stock PSvane drivers. If someone could tell me what power tube to get that has strong bass and overall clear presentation I’m not bothered by highs.



When I was using stock tube types on Elise, I had good results in terms of bass, when using the stock orange Psvanes CV181T2 with Tung Sol 5998. I am not sure how easy are these to be found, but this is the best suggestion I can make.
The powers with the biggest quantity of bass I ever tried were the RCA 6AS7G, more exactly these ones, but I am not sure if these are clean enough for you, haven't tried them for more than 2 years:







Since Elise is different than Euforia and Euforia than AE, you might wait for others suggestions.


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## Bonddam

My Woo WA33 has no guess work as it uses all new production tubes. Very few options with it and very expensive. Any NOS is hard to get and are more expensive.

My plan is use the stock tubes and see if I’ll roll new tubes later on.

Thanks much appreciated.


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## Bonddam

My listening is all edm so detail is important stage and width are not. Bass mids and highs are important.


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## Bonddam

So I’m in process of getting Euphoria anniversary edition and I couldn’t hold off so I purchased 4 pairs of power tubes one of which is bendix 6080wb. Guess I’m to excited.


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## DecentLevi

@Bonddam
Fantastic choice on the Bendix 6080 especially if you're big into electronic music, has just about the most perfect bass weight / definition for those amps (I'm speaking as an outsider now, having moved onto other amps). Just make sure it's the slotted graphite version like below for the best performance.





For driver tubes, over the years I had an unwavering preference towards what they call 9-pin octals (miniature tubes) with electronic music. Their performance as drivers with the genre carried over from Elise to Euforia and likewise with my current Quad PA One + tube amp. I have always gotten much more controlled / vivid lush bass and clean highs with the right miniature tube, a sound that just was not possible with any of the dozens of other driver tubes such as 6SN7, EL32, EL11, etc. (many of those were more preferable for acoustic genres). Pair these mini-tubes with a good closedback and you got yourself an amazing experience for the genre with hard hitting controlled bass, balanced / smooth highs in a very good accoustic chamber. 




_(a few 9-pin octal examples on right. Additionally many good 12v mini's can be used too with a special adapter such as RCA 12AV7 and Tungsram E80CC)_

I agree that electronic music doesn't need a good soundstage, this can make it sound different than intended but believe me you've gotta try mini tubes with closedbacks to get the best experience. Of course synergy between power/driver tubes matters, it's all down to personal preference so you gotta try it yourself - they're cheap and of huge variety so you can try out a lot to find your favorite.

De-railing for a bit, an exception to the above is with older 80's and earlier analogue-era electronic music (EG Art of Noise, Tom Tom Club, Giorgio Moroder, etc.), these actually sound better with open back headphones and tubes with a large soundstage due to being recorded in more of an analog way and often being infused with more organic real-world sound samples. And you may be wondering why I say "electronic music" - I love this umbrella category of music and all it's sub-genres such as IDM, trip-hop, krautrock, electro, ambient, breaks, jungle as well as the more modern 'mainstream' scene known as EDM with its' sub-genres such as its' more commercialized version of techno and house.

Back on topic, to use these miniature tube gems on the F.A. amps you do need an adapter, but you can just get ONE pair and use it with MANY miniature tube classes. You could just ask user @Deyan to make 6N23P to 6SN7 adapters and you can use it on those as well as ECC88, E88CC, 6DJ7, 6CG7 and 6FQ7, opening up doors for plentiful & cheap tubes to try.

Other good drivers for the genre are RCA 6N7 / VT-96 (not 6SN7) for a darker sound, but these also need adapters. I've heard the stock PSVane drivers may have a clear & dynamic sound too.


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## Bonddam

Here is the description of the 6080wb
*matched pair Bendix 6080WB vacuum tubes - graphite plate 6080 - carbon plate - nos - anode - slotted anodes - exceptional condition*


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## Bonddam

Other power tubes I purchades are

Tung Sol 5998 
1959 RCA 6080 black plate
RCA 6A7SG mica


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## Bonddam

Amp is ordered now just wait.


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## OctavianH

It seems you are starting a very interesting adventure. Why have you decided to go for the AE when you own a WA33 which is in another league, or at least should be?


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## Bonddam

OctavianH said:


> It seems you are starting a very interesting adventure. Why have you decided to go for the AE when you own a WA33 which is in another league, or at least should be?


There's more tube rolling options on the Feliks so it's a fun amp that I'm sure sounds amazing with all the positive reviews it gets. The WA33 for example the driver tubes only give you two options it uses 6c45 and I have both. Power tubes has some I went with the 2nd best company EML and PSvane where KR Audio(cost for 4 tubes is $2500) is regarded as best. The rectifier I went with Takasuki(which cost $1200 if I remember) which is regarded best for 274B tubes. The money you shill out is between 3k-4.5k usd so very expensive. I have the WA33 where I want it so I'm done rolling. With the Euphoria I spent 1,500 for 4 pairs of output tubes which is much cheaper then buying 4 EML 300B 2.5 volt which is $1550 shipped. That in nutshell is why I went with Euphoria AE.


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## OctavianH

When you receive it, let us know your impressions. I am curious to see where it will be positioned near a much more expensive amp.


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## connieflyer

My advice would be to get the amp and let it be used as you wish it. Listen to it, and see, if anything is missing.  If you hear music that is what you want, don't change anything.  Get to know what you have first and foremost. Everyone's hearing is different, and what sounds good to me, won't sound the same to you. If after a few months use, you feel that you want more bass, treble, headroom or what have you, then, try different tubes. Everything has to settle in first, and you have to have a base line of what the amp and tubes sound like to you. There are several combinations of tubes that "seem" better than others. But learn about what you have first.


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## mayurs

I will be joining the Euforia club in about 4-6 weeks but I am already so excited that I thought of just visiting here and saying Hi. My cans are Audio Technica ADX5000 and Senn HD650 along with a HE6SE. Ofcourse not intending to drive the inefficient planar with the Euforia but hope that my other 2 high impedance cans are driven well with the Euforia.


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## connieflyer

Welcome to the forum a lot of information and help here, hope you enjoy the amp


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## Bonddam

Tomorrow mine arrives I hope I make it by five to the store(so my wife doesn't see it) I shipped it to.


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## Ichos




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## Bonddam

Got the Euphoria AE it looks nice. Sounds good using PSvane Gold and Bendix 6080WB. compared to the WA33 the wa33 sounds better out of the box. i'm needing to burn in the tubes and amp. good bass though through Fostex TH909. No funny noises at normal and loud listening. if you crank volume past 3 very low noise and that's with very efficient headphone.


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## Lucky87

Hey guys well that didn't take that long I am back on the 4 X QUAD GL KT88's from stock. I am blown away on the sound with the Utopia's what a great combo.

Question does anyone have experience with the Psvane KT88-TII vs the Gold Lion KT88? I am curious on if it would be a upgrade etc..


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## Bonddam

Lucky87 said:


> Hey guys well that didn't take that long I am back on the 4 X QUAD GL KT88's from stock. I am blown away on the sound with the Utopia's what a great combo.
> 
> Question does anyone have experience with the Psvane KT88-TII vs the Gold Lion KT88? I am curious on if it would be a upgrade etc..


How do you do the 4 kt88? is it adapter being used? If so how much? How does it do all same tubes I thinking the drivers would have to be different? I'd be interested in trying that roll. How much for the whole setup?


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## LoryWiv

Bonddam said:


> How do you do the 4 kt88? is it adapter being used? If so how much? How does it do all same tubes I thinking the drivers would have to be different? I'd be interested in trying that roll. How much for the whole setup?


I ran 4 GL KT88's in Elise for quite some time and agree it is an excellent all around tube set. One needs adapters, available from headfier @Deyan or ebay. Note that the  adapter type 6V6 to 6AS7 worked fine for me in both Elise's power and driver slots, and to my knowledge Euforia has same config. Be aware sing this setup may void your warranty, I'm told, but I have never had any issues with it.


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## Bonddam

Is the kt88 a power tube only or power and driver?


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## LoryWiv

Bonddam said:


> Is the kt88 a power tube only or power and driver?


It is most generally considered a power tube but the point of experimenting is to recognize and test that tubes can be used outside of their standard designations. This is exemplified by the good results many of us achieved using a quad of GL KT88 in Elise / Euforia, 2 in power position and 2 in driver position. YMMV.


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## LoryWiv (Aug 3, 2020)

One caution about non-standard tubes is to respect the total heater current amperage the amp can handle, I believe ~ 6.6 A max. Thus, we can feel confident the 4 GL KT88 do not exceed the max. since each tube draws 1.6 A x 4 = 6.4 A total. However, you should NOT use 2 6AS7G powers (2.5 A each = 5 A) with 2 KT88 drivers (3.2 A) as this is 8.2 A, well beyond the max total safe heater current. I hope that is clear and helpful, and note there are other compatibility factors to and these threads can be a great guide of what others have tried safely before.


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## Bonddam

LoryWiv said:


> One caution about non-standard tubes is to respect the total heater current amperage the amp can handle, I believe ~ 6.6 A max. Thus, we can feel confident the 4 GL KT88 do not exceed the max. since each tube draws 1.6 A x 4 = 6.4 A total. However, you should NOT use 2 6AS7G powers (2.5 A each = 5 A) with 2 KT88 drivers (3.2 A) as this is 8.2 A, well beyond the max total safe heater current. I hope that is clear and helpful, and note there are other compatibility factors to and these threads can be a great guide of what others have tried safely before.


This is very helpful. I don't know if I'll try this but having more knowledge is a good thing. I'm satisfied with the Bendix 6080 wb and the stock drivers. Listening to the HEkse is better on the Euphoria AE then WA33. Both amps not fully burned in.


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## Bonddam

Swapped out bendix 6080wb with tung sol 5998. louder and more bass. The 6080wb has better soundstage and detail more imaging. I'm hoping the 5998 gets better with burn in.


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## Bonddam (Aug 5, 2020)

deleted


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## flea22

Wanted to show off these beautiful tubes I scored nos date matched. Brown base ecc32 mullard sawtooth plate. Just rolled them in!! Will post sound impressions later. Good times


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## OctavianH

I have to admit I do not know much about these, so I wait for your sound impressions more than for the next book of G.R.R. Martin


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## Scutey

flea22 said:


> Wanted to show off these beautiful tubes I scored nos date matched. Brown base ecc32 mullard sawtooth plate. Just rolled them in!! Will post sound impressions later. Good times


Lovely looking tubes, been tempted to get a pair in the past but never got around to them, I'll certainly be interested too.


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## flea22

I am pretty happy with the pair of ecc32 and also with my purchase of the euforia, starting to wish I forked out a little more and got the ae!! I also never bought the original psvane tubes so I have no idea of what they sound like or have any benchmark to compare nos tubes.

Comparing the ecc32's to my 1940's sylvania vt 231, well the mullards suit my taste a lot more. The sylvania have a lot of sparkle, extended highs, very transparent and the bass was very tight, too tight. Over all these tubes come off very bright. Female vocals with these tubes are great. 

The mullards seem to have a lot more drive and my meze planar's respond well to this, Music seems to have more authority with a nice touch of warmness, everything sounds right with the mullards with no abnormal sounds to be heard. There is a very wide sound stage with great separation. 

One thing I have noticed is my transformer gets really hot with the ecc32 and 5998 combo, I emailed feliks about this combo and they told me it is safe to run, so maybe not too much of a concern. But I also don't really know what is a normal temperature for the euforia.


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## mordy

flea22 said:


> I am pretty happy with the pair of ecc32 and also with my purchase of the euforia, starting to wish I forked out a little more and got the ae!! I also never bought the original psvane tubes so I have no idea of what they sound like or have any benchmark to compare nos tubes.
> 
> Comparing the ecc32's to my 1940's sylvania vt 231, well the mullards suit my taste a lot more. The sylvania have a lot of sparkle, extended highs, very transparent and the bass was very tight, too tight. Over all these tubes come off very bright. Female vocals with these tubes are great.
> 
> ...


Hi f22,
Heat is the enemy of electronics. For a small amount of money you can get a pair of quiet USB powered fans from Amazon that will cool off your amp and give you more peace of mind.
I am using this pair of 4" fans that costs $20 - if you opt for 3" fans the price is $15.


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## flea22

mordy said:


> Hi f22,
> Heat is the enemy of electronics. For a small amount of money you can get a pair of quiet USB powered fans from Amazon that will cool off your amp and give you more peace of mind.
> I am using this pair of 4" fans that costs $20 - if you opt for 3" fans the price is $15.


Thanks for the suggestion, the fan idea is definitely cheap enough to give a try. Will give it a go. You are right about heat being the enemy, I have a custom water cooled PC.


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## mordy

The two fans come with a three position speed controller and plugs into any USB port or charger. It says that 500mAh is enough but I found that the fans run faster with an 1A wall USB plug and I am using the middle setting instead of the highest one.


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## LoryWiv

flea22 said:


> I am pretty happy with the pair of ecc32 and also with my purchase of the euforia, starting to wish I forked out a little more and got the ae!! I also never bought the original psvane tubes so I have no idea of what they sound like or have any benchmark to compare nos tubes.
> 
> Comparing the ecc32's to my 1940's sylvania vt 231, well the mullards suit my taste a lot more. The sylvania have a lot of sparkle, extended highs, very transparent and the bass was very tight, too tight. Over all these tubes come off very bright. Female vocals with these tubes are great.
> 
> ...


Well, the ECC32 draws 0.95A of heater current versus 0.6 for standard 6SN7, so with a pair of these driving a pair of 5998's amp  total current draw is 6.7A, probably right about Euforia's max. That said, if Feliks says its acceptable I am sure it is....you could try adding a small cooling fan next to the rig if the heat concerns you.


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## flea22

Thanks for the information, It is a great combo of tubes that I want to keep in as my default combo. Will look into fans.

Both tubes are listed as compatible so if worse case scenario happens I will be covered by warranty. It only really gets hot after a few hours.


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## mordy

Another way of lowering the temperature of the chassis is to use octal socket savers. They act as insulators and also prevent wear on the original sockets.



I always use them for the two above reasons.


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## connieflyer

Just decided it was time to experiment a little bit further with the AE amp.  Totally burned in now, stock tubes are fine, really liked the El 11 black, mesh plates drivers, and KT 88 for powers.  Used that for a month or more and could not find anything I did not like about the combo. So this morning decided to go a little further, put in the KT77 drivers, and quad of Russian GU50's, I ran these in my Euforia and they were great.  With the AE being a little different was not sue of the results.  Some of my other favorites were not quite as well liked.  But this combo, well it blows the others away. The vocals are to die for. Audio spectrum well represented, but the vocals are superb.  Much better than I remember this combo in the Euforia.  The AE is really stepping out with this combo of tubes. Have only been listening for about half an hour so further warm up may change a bit.


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## Ichos

WoW , Star Trek space ship!!!


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## connieflyer

It definetly takes you on an outer space(s) trip!


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## Ichos

Is it Allright with the heater current?
May you are stretching the transformer?


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## connieflyer

Heater current is only supplied to the drivers by the AE amp.  The quad GU50's are handled by the external transformer. It is a is nowhere near it's limit. Runs very cool,


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## Bonddam

does anyone know what I'm pushing with the stock gold drivers and bendix 6080wb. I looked but couldn't find a google search on the amperage of the Bendix.


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## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Heater current is only supplied to the drivers by the AE amp.  The quad GU50's are handled by the external transformer. It is a is nowhere near it's limit. Runs very cool,


But the GU50 heater voltage of 12.6 requires external source, correct?


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## LoryWiv

Bonddam said:


> does anyone know what I'm pushing with the stock gold drivers and bendix 6080wb. I looked but couldn't find a google search on the amperage of the Bendix.


In general most 6080's are 2.5A each, shouldn't very much if at all by manufacturer.


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## barontan2418

LoryWiv said:


> But the GU50 heater voltage of 12.6 requires external source, correct?


Correct.


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## connieflyer

Yes, the external transformer I have is 20a so no problem there. Works great, and makes a nice glow at night.


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## Bonddam

Love the blue glow that’s my favorite color.


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## hypnos1 (Aug 12, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> Just decided it was time to experiment a little bit further with the AE amp.  Totally burned in now, stock tubes are fine, really liked the El 11 black, mesh plates drivers, and KT 88 for powers.  Used that for a month or more and could not find anything I did not like about the combo. So this morning decided to go a little further, put in the KT77 drivers, and quad of Russian GU50's, I ran these in my Euforia and they were great.  With the AE being a little different was not sue of the results.  Some of my other favorites were not quite as well liked.  But this combo, well it blows the others away. The vocals are to die for. Audio spectrum well represented, but the vocals are superb.  Much better than I remember this combo in the Euforia.  The AE is really stepping out with this combo of tubes. Have only been listening for about half an hour so further warm up may change a bit.





connieflyer said:


> Yes, the external transformer I have is 20a so no problem there. Works great, and makes a nice glow at night.



So glad to hear the GU50s shine in your AE amp cf...not to mention the KT77 . And given their ridiculously cheap cost - GU50s can be had for $3 to $4 each - must be one of the best value for money (_excellent) _tubes ever lol. It's such a shame the 12.6V heater needs an external power supply and adapters that aren't yet available commercially - (I'm only sorry I can't make them up for folks now). And they must be pretty good, considering AudioValve use them in a mono power amp costing $7600!! Plus, like the KT family - when used in F-A's amps - the amps run nice and cool...a welcome added bonus. But of course, they're not officially endorsed by F-A, along with all the other alternatives I've experimented with over the years. However, none of them has proved to be a problem for Elise or Euforia, after extensive use by both myself and others....very versatile/forgiving amps indeed lol!  I wish you and all you other folks continued enjoyment from your excellent amps....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. @Bonddam that lovely blue glow doesn't come naturally from the GU50s alas...I cheated and added some blue LEDs, if you didn't already know lol .


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## connieflyer

Remembering that the new AE model is a little different from Euforia, decided I better sub KT66 for drivers and see. Even better than KT77's. wondered if it would. Will try KT88 next.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Remembering that the new AE model is a little different from Euforia, decided I better sub KT66 for drivers and see. Even better than KT77's. wondered if it would. Will try KT88 next.



Aha cf...at this rate I reckon you might just be approaching wallet-busting territory - ie. _original_ GEC KT88s as drivers!  (ask @barontan2418 lol ). And actually - if you have them - GU50s to match the powers might also prove very interesting....for far less $$$$! My own favourite setup was 2x GU50s driving dual GU50/GEC TT21 (top anode KT88 version) power combos...(who'd have ever thought of such a thing from F-A's amps?!!). HAPPY ROLLING!...CJ


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## connieflyer

Tried CJ's favorite combo, (do not have the GEC tt21) but used the KT88 because that is what I have.  Another outstanding group.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Tried CJ's favorite combo, (do not have the GEC tt21) but used the KT88 because that is what I have.  Another outstanding group.



So many good combos to try...but don't forget the benefits of leaving each one to 'settle in' cf - sometimes a good few days...both re. the amp and one's _brain_ lol!  Not to mention giving those ol' grey cells a bit of respite/assistance with the odd glass of something..._or two!!_...CHEERS!...


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## connieflyer

Had to try my first outing with the GU50's quad. I really like this better for some reason.  The AE amp is just a little different in how the tubes sound than the Euforia.  I like it better than the Euforia.  A definite upgrade.


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## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Had to try my first outing with the GU50's quad. I really like this better for some reason.  The AE amp is just a little different in how the tubes sound than the Euforia.  I like it better than the Euforia.  A definite upgrade.



Hi cf. Had a feeling the GU50s might just be good in the drivers' seat also...a 'sleeper' tube if ever there was one lol!   And from the sound of it, manna from Heaven for the AE amp especially...

ps. You now have lovely symmetry also .


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## connieflyer

Hi CJ, listening to the quad of GU 50's, I think I have found the treasure.  I like this better than adding the KT66 or KT88 to the mix. This so far is the Best I have heard on the AE. Using the Sennheiser 800,, and Oppo PM1's this is a match made in heaven. Clarity and sound stage are exceptional. This is going to be a long time trial, have a lot of tubes I can roll but hate quit using these.


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## Bonddam

Very happy with the LCD4 with the Euphoria AE using Bendix 6080wb power tubes and PSvane gold drivers. I tried other power tubes but not as exciting.


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## flea22 (Aug 16, 2020)

Hello guys, I am looking for some advice. My 2 month old euforia has developed a pretty loud hum that gets louder with volume.

I have tried this list of things with no success.
# completely changed all the tubes.
# disconnected the source. Have no inputs and only one output, the hum comes through both headphone output and rca output.
# cleaned all connections, even tube pins.
# taken the amp to another house.
# changed power cables.

If there is anything else to try please let me know, I am starting to freak out 😤, I am waiting to hear back from Feliks. Only change I made recently was rolling in some ecc32.


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## DecentLevi (Aug 16, 2020)

I recently had my first experience with audio dampening / vibration absorption materials for hi-fi products and thought I'd post my impressions here, being a former Elise / Euforia owner.

Although a little skeptical at first if something you put under your gear can really make a difference, I thought I'd 'take the plunge' due to posts in numerous forums affirming they do make an audible difference. Mind you, this is no 'automatic improvement' in sound, rather something that needs experimentation to find that 'sweet spot'. The results can be good or bad depending on your specific system, component(s) used with, type of absorption material and preferences... and probably the rugged-ness of your table.

Here's what I got:

12 x 12 inch by 1/14th inch Sorbothane Vibration Damping sheet 50 duro (approx 300 x 6 mm, this one)
This is an interesting material with a feel akin to medium-hard putty and elasticity that always springs back into shape, yet is easily cut with scissors.





Bright Star IsoNode Feet Set of 4 large (this one)
This is a unique vibration-rejecting polymer that's similar to above and achieves different results




This was the result of a fair bit of research of differing types such as metal cone and other shock absorption feet like below that ship with many hi-fi products. IMO the likes of these don't do anything for the sound:




My first foray into this 'audio hack' had me putting them under all components in one swoop, because "it won't really do much so I may as well go big to hear any difference", or so was my thinking... WRONG! To my shock, my system sounded quite different. And in a worse way: although there was an improved level of depth of feeling of being deeper into the scene with possibly more holographic soundstage, I was also hearing more of a V-shaped signature with accented treble & almost overpowering bass.

Trial & error over the next few days led me to remove everything and do a critical listening A/B of each component in my system with 'stock' feet vs. either/or of the first two shown absorption types. This I can say with confidence is the only way to do it - listening to how the material changes the sound of a specific component, then comparing the cumulative effect of all positive changes together, and revising accordingly. This is no small order however, having to undo everything in order to attach these to the underside.

My final combination includes 4x pieces of sorbothane I cut out under my electrostatic amp, 4 more under my DDC (DI-20 audio interface), 4 under my custom LPS supplying clean DC power to my DAC, 4x more under my USB purifier, and under my tube amp there are 4 more attached together to the rounded ISO Note feet. (each separately were no good but both together was the magic-sauce)


Although this is for my current Quad PA One + tube amp, I do beleive similar results could be had with Feliks Audio amps as well. I found this combination of both absorption materials with my amp to yield a more controlled bass and neutral highs, along with a very impressive (yet not overdone) soundstage! This of course in combination with the mentioned two USB components and LPS was the sweet spot for me. It is a truly impressive upgrade in resolution, smoothness, engulfing me in a truly satisfying sound! I am a proud believer now. And once again this is _no magic bullet_, but is _highly system / preference dependent_, and moreover there are other types I haven't tried. To anyone who is interested, I wish you good results!


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## walakalulu

I’ve been there with sorbothane in the past. Ultimately whilst there is an impression of increased depth and presence I found that pace,rhythm and timing suffered too much for me. The music just became a little sluggish. Imho of course. Try Stillpoints for a total opposite effect but they don’t float my boat either.....


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## Ficcion2

I’ve been lurking this thread mostly reading up on tube rolling.
I’ve been spending the last 2 weeks enjoying the Euforia now the last two posts are scaring me...

I was just looking for a good looking and priced rack/shelf....


----------



## OctavianH

As an addition to what @DecentLevi posted about decoupling and antivibration, I have another concerns related to the influence of the cables and power cables. I would say, if the space allows it, to separate the power supplies and power cables from the rest of the components. I have to say that during my Qutest years I have observed changes and improvements when I separated them as much as possible from all the other components. So only some rearranging of the shelves might provide some benefits.


----------



## flea22 (Aug 18, 2020)

Some strange findings about this loud hum my euforia is making. It went away after 1 hour of use. Turned it on the next day and it started humming again using the ecc32, so I turned off the euforia and rolled some standard 6sn7 tubes in and the hum was gone. Turned it off again rolled the ecc32 back in and the hum was gone. 1 hour later with use the hum has came back.

I do find it very strange a tube roll fixed the hum for a short time. But I have heard it hum with every tube I own.

I am starting to think it is a problem with the euforia it self and any thing else is coincidental.

Also does anyone know if a driver tube was causing a hum would it come through one channel or equal on both? My hum is equal on both.


----------



## OctavianH

I heard a small hum on some specific tube combos on my Elise. More than this, on some I heard even noise (for example C3g + WE 421A). As you know Elise and Euforia has an auto-bias circuit which readapts when you exchange tubes with different parameters. I had from time to time problems when I rolled tubes that the amplifier has not adjusted properly. Not a hum, but from time to time I heard a muffled right channel, or the tube combo sounded different (worse) from what I knew. I guess a good way to reset anything might be to roll back the stock tubes or like I do, from time to time I turn of my power conditioner so I let Elise without power and then just restart everything. I am not sure which is the best solution, I only wanted to say that I experienced something like this and it might be related to the tube combo, the amplifier works fine with other combination afterwards or after it settles back.


----------



## DecentLevi

flea22 said:


> Some strange findings about this loud hum my euforia is making. It went away after 1 hour of use. Turned it on the next day and it started humming again using the ecc32, so I turned off the euforia and rolled some standard 6sn7 tubes in and the hum was gone. Turned it off again rolled the ecc32 back in and the hum was gone. 1 hour later with use the hum has came back.
> 
> I do find it very strange a tube roll fixed the hum for a short time. But I have heard it hum with every tube I own.
> 
> ...


Here's a few ways for hum troubleshooting that have been mentioned on this thread every few months: grounding / earthing your amp with a wire on one of the RCA sockets, cleaning tube pins, testing your amp on another electrical plug in another room, comparing other tube rolls, use of power conditioners, faraday cages and about 1/2 dozen more that escape me ATM.


----------



## flea22

Big thanks for the information guys, will try a few more tricks to resolve the hum when I get a chance. I do have to add the hum was first heard using 421a and ecc32, this combo was dead silent for around 2 weeks. 

The amp would only have around 25 hrs of use, maybe the hum is part of burn in?


----------



## walakalulu

Can’t you just return it as faulty?


----------



## flea22

walakalulu said:


> Can’t you just return it as faulty?


Sadly looks like I will have to, I just really want to make sure the problem is not on my end. The thought of going without a amp for a long time scares me😭


----------



## mordy

I know the feeling - music is part of our lives.
Just stating the obvious - sometimes the hum comes from a nearby electrical device such as a portable phone or even LED light.
Have you tried the amp in a different room?


----------



## flea22

mordy said:


> I know the feeling - music is part of our lives.
> Just stating the obvious - sometimes the hum comes from a nearby electrical device such as a portable phone or even LED light.
> Have you tried the amp in a different room?


Thanks, yeah I moved it to another house and still had the same hum. Still waiting to hear back from Feliks.


----------



## OctavianH

I am following this blog for some time:
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2020/08/deutsche-elektronenrohren-manufaktur.html
This post related to the birth of a tube was nice to follow.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Aug 20, 2020)

flea22 said:


> Big thanks for the information guys, will try a few more tricks to resolve the hum when I get a chance. I do have to add the hum was first heard using 421a and ecc32, this combo was dead silent for around 2 weeks.
> 
> The amp would only have around 25 hrs of use, maybe the hum is part of burn in?



Hum problems are usually related to a 'clear path to ground'.  Are you using a three prong power cord at the wall?

I would try running a wire from the outside (ground) sleeve of the RCA inputs to a known good ground (usually the screw that holds the AC wall plate on, is grounded).

See if that helps.


----------



## barontan2418

OctavianH said:


> I am following this blog for some time:
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2020/08/deutsche-elektronenrohren-manufaktur.html
> This post related to the birth of a tube was nice to follow.


Very interesting. Thanks. Loads of hands on work going on.


----------



## flea22

JazzVinyl said:


> Hum problems are usually related to a 'clear path to ground'.  Are you using a three prong power cord at the wall?
> 
> I would try running a wire from the outside (ground) sleeve of the RCA inputs to a known good ground (usually the screw that holds the AC wall plate on, is grounded).
> 
> See if that helps.


Thanks for trying to help, I am using a three prong power cord. I will try the wire idea and see if it helps.


----------



## OctavianH

Some stuff to read about these amps:

Q&A with Łukasz Feliks of Feliks-Audio, by Marek Dyba (August 27, 2020)


----------



## mab1376

OctavianH said:


> Some stuff to read about these amps:
> 
> Q&A with Łukasz Feliks of Feliks-Audio, by Marek Dyba (August 27, 2020)





> _We are currently working on a new flagship headphone amplifier, a fully balanced design at both, input and output, based on what we call a “high power tube”. It should be introduced to the market beginning 2021._


----------



## Focux

anyone done a comparison w the PrimaLuna Evo 100?


----------



## DecentLevi

I've done an indirect comparison between Euforia v2 and PL Evo 200 and the PL really smoked the F.A. amps IMO, much more authority / control / raw energy, detail and power you can just about taste - as can be expected as it's primarily a speaker amp AFAIK. I'm not sure how the PL 100 compares, but 200 has got QUITE some 'magic sauce' and pairs well with many headphones, even hard to drive ones like the HEDDphone which was an immense pairing. Maybe @UntilThen can chime in.


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 2, 2020)

PS - I have now achieved a major milestone on my hi-fi journey, way into what many would consider the 'stratosphere'. Having already recently moved up from a Euforia v1 to the Quad PA One + amp of similar form factor which I considered to have harder hitting drums & improved detail but at the expense of some soundstage - I've recently got my hands on a solid-state amp called Kenwood VR-406. It's actually an 5.1 channel A/V receiver / speaker amp, but the doggone headphone output on this BEAST is a real steal and just a TOTAL master performer!!!!! It may be partially digital but at least in "source direct" mode, I'm getting beautiful fidelity that IMO goes way up there with other amps like the Rangarok and fine vintage stereo receivers. 'The best things in life are free' as they say, this was no exception found laying around in some garage for _free _but sounding like $1,000's+ and *totally *incomparable to any amps I have experienced at home.

I should note however there are newer model Kenwood VR-series A/V receivers which may be at least as good, this model was from about 2001. It does sound very analog though! 



My semi-vintage stereo receiver is also coaxed along quite nicely by the RCA cable I had put together DIY, a Neotech Nei-2001 pure silver material using the best material on earth for electron transfer (single crystal mono UP OCC silver), thanks to fellow member @hypnos1 , along with other upgrades including Chord Qutest DAC with custom LPS, Audio-GD DI-20 digital interface (DDC), ferrite beads on several components including headphone cable and sorbothane dampening under a few components.

H1 I should thank you publicly for passing on the formula to make this cable, I've a feeling it can never do wrong, can last a lifetime and can scale up to the moon with hi-fi gear. And I guess we're on a similar trajectory?


----------



## flea22 (Sep 2, 2020)

Hello guys, I don't want to hijack this thread with my humming issues. But should the euforia be dead quiet at full volume with good tubes?

I think I have done all the trouble shooting I can and I will have to send it back to Poland. Just want to make sure that the hum is not normal or expected with the amp.


----------



## Ichos

Full volume with what headphones?
Playing music or not?


----------



## Ficcion2

I bought a 2018 Euforia here on the classifieds.
It came it with the stock Gold PSVanes/Russian powers and some El39/38 and el3N (and adapters) and they all hum except the stocks.

Idk if that helps but I’m guessing the tubes that require adapters would be susceptible to noise or degradation.

Or I could be totally wrong.


----------



## flea22

Ichos said:


> Full volume with what headphones?
> Playing music or not?


With meze empyrean's at full volume with no music. I can hear it hum.


Ficcion2 said:


> I bought a 2018 Euforia here on the classifieds.
> It came it with the stock Gold PSVanes/Russian powers and some El39/38 and el3N (and adapters) and they all hum except the stocks.
> 
> Idk if that helps but I’m guessing the tubes that require adapters would be susceptible to noise or degradation.
> ...


Thanks, that is interesting. All my tubes hum, they are all nos but none require adapters. The hum is louder with some higher gain tubes. But I don't have stock tubes to try.


----------



## Ichos

@flea22 

I will test it tonight and let you know but I think that it is normal to hear hum at full volume with a sensitive headphone like the Empyrean.


----------



## mordy

“If they make it, it hums”
Some tubes are quiet even at very high sound levels, but my experience has been that there is  often hum when you really crank it up. However, I don’t find this to be a problem because those sound levels are ear splitting and unlistenable. Usually I rarely get hum at normal listening levels.


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> “If they make it, it hums”
> Some tubes are quiet even at very high sound levels, but my experience has been that there is  often hum when you really crank it up. However, I don’t find this to be a problem because those sound levels are ear splitting and unlistenable. Usually I rarely get hum at normal listening levels.



I too have come across him with many of our tube combinations in the past, I guess it goes with the territory when using non recommend tubes. In my experience Euforia is more prone than Elise when it comes to hum, probably due to higher sensitivity? One thing to note if anyone decides to go down the GU50 route is that once you use a separate power supply for the drivers there is complete silence on both amps. My final iteration is as below and I could ask for no more. Thanks once again H1. Icing on the cake was I purchased the 2 x TT22's very nearly new for less than £100


----------



## Lucky87

Ficcion2 said:


> I bought a 2018 Euforia here on the classifieds.
> It came it with the stock Gold PSVanes/Russian powers and some El39/38 and el3N (and adapters) and they all hum except the stocks.
> 
> Idk if that helps but I’m guessing the tubes that require adapters would be susceptible to noise or degradation.
> ...



For my unit stock no hum with the 4 x Quad KT 88 GL no hum with Empyreans, ZR1, HD800 but with the Utopia very slight hum but when music is playing I can’t hear it. Same issue with a KT 77 with KT 88. It seems strange this is only happening with the Focal and the QUAD 88 setup sounds amazing with the Utopias my favorite out of all my cans. Debating on the buying the Quad Shuguang WEKT88 plus tubes which I hear sound  great or interesting in the PSvanes KT88 Quad setup. Or just wait for the new 300B to come out in 2021 from Feliks Audio.


----------



## Ichos

@flea22 
No humming with the stock tubes at max volume.


----------



## Bonddam

I have a little static hum at full volume. This has to be normal. It’s dead silent at normal loud listening level. My hum starts around 3 o’clock on the dial which I’ll never reach I barely go past 11 o’clock.


----------



## mordy

Bonddam said:


> I have a little static hum at full volume. This has to be normal. It’s dead silent at normal loud listening level. My hum starts around 3 o’clock on the dial which I’ll never reach I barely go past 11 o’clock.


What you are describing has been my experience in general as well.


----------



## walakalulu

I’ll be selling my 7 month old Euphoria Anniversary soon if anyone‘s interested as I need an amp with xlr output. UK only.


----------



## connieflyer

Concerning the hum, I have the original Eoforia  and lthe 20th anniversary Euforia and neither one has had a hum.  Both are still running and just had both on running both at the same time out from my Gungnir dac, and ran them both and no hum at all.  Listening to the 20th anniversary now on the output into my main listening system and no hum there either.


----------



## Ichos

Wow I like the two of them.
I wish they were dual mono!


----------



## flea22

Big thanks for everybody's information about there experience with the euforia and humming. I have made the decision that my hum is not normal and I will send the amp back from Australia to Poland to have Feliks service it. It was a great sounding amp and I hope I will get to experience it trouble free one day. Thanks guys


----------



## barontan2418

⁸


flea22 said:


> Big thanks for everybody's information about there experience with the euforia and humming. I have made the decision that my hum is not normal and I will send the amp back from Australia to Poland to have Feliks service it. It was a great sounding amp and I hope I will get to experience it trouble free one day. Thanks guys


Good decision


----------



## barontan2418

barontan2418 said:


> ⁸
> 
> Good decision


Hope you get a speedy return.


----------



## OctavianH (Sep 5, 2020)

Without trying to be, again, offtopic, will present my next episode about power filtering, a subject we began to discuss some time ago on this thread. I know there are some users which are interested in this topic, and even if it does not contain any new information about the amplifier itself or tube rolling.

So, let's begin with the beginning. A few months ago, because I had an unexpected offer which could not be refused, I was able to make a significant upgrade on the DAC side, by adding Chord Hugo TT2 and Chord M Scaler to my inventory. Being a very happy owner of Qutest and before it of 2Qute, the choice to go on the same path was obvious. The same for the linear power supplies from MCRU which I always liked and considered a real improvement. So I replaced my Qutest and its MCRU power supply with TT2 + M Scaler and added also 2 MCRU LPS of 15V for them. The upgrade, soundwise, is not subtle, but to sumarize, because this is not the topic I want to cover, was a much larger soundstage where all the elements inside were somehow better defined. But this very large soundstage came also with passages where I heard sibilance or brightness. At first I was unsure if what I hear is an improvement or the cause or lack of synergy because brightness can be sometimes misleading, but the reputation of the new equipment made me have patience and try several other things before make a final assessment. So I upgraded BNC cables, I rolled some RCA interconnects and still, I was not totally pleased about what I was hearing compared to what I was used to listen when owning Qutest. During this time, my TT2 + M Scaler were connected via their LPS directly to a power distributor and Elise + my CD transport via the Furman to the same unit. And this was happening because I always had a wrong assumption that a linear power supply is also filtering and not only fully regulating the current.
During this time, while trying to understand what is missing and if what I hear is real or only my brain is messing with me, I discussed with some local LPS manufacturer who told me "always lack of bass or brightness is solved on the power side". So I started to read and investigate, until I found a product from Audioplan, a company located in Germany, called FineFilter S which made me very curious. This power filter is designed to be a "collective" power filter which does not limit current or reduce dynamics even if it is used with amplifiers and, according to the Audioplan documentation, has to be put at the input of the whole line. It is basically a box with one input, one output and 2 switches. One of them is Ground Filtering ON/OFF and the other, with 3 positions, changes the sound signature and has the following options: Presence / Neutral / Bass.
The next step was to find it and try it. On Ebay it was not very easy to find, I am not sure if it is still on production, but I was able to find locally a 2nd hand unit, in good condition.






So I've plugged this grey box directly to the wall, then put my power strip into its output. When I start to listen, I heard a huge bass increase but Elise was sounding somehow artificial, dynamics were not the same and I had a feeling of narrowness. So I said, OK, 2 filters for an amplifier are too much and removed Elise from the Furman. The next step was to arrange in the recommended order everything in the power strip, to put in the first output the amplifier, then DAC + M Scaler and in the end the rest of the stuff which does not need too much current. For Elise I've used an MCRU No. 75 power cable, which I really like and consider of very good quality. It can be seen here on the right side.






When listening first, the dynamics and the sound I knew from Elise was back. But still, I had a feeling more can be done. So I put into my 2 output Furman AC-210A E both power supplies of TT2 and M Scaler. And voila! The magic happened. I heard immediately better details, edge and Elise was sounding better than before. More than this, in this setup I started to prefer the interconnects made from NEI-2001, the "famous" Neotech cable many are using here, over my previously used DH Labs Air Matrix. And again, GEC KT66 + GE 7581A started to sound incredible, like I was knowing them from the Qutest era. Sibilance was gone, the missing bass returned and the wide soundstage remained there, but maybe was a little bit restrained bringing as a bonus more edge to the sound. I listened happy the whole evening, and the bass was almost perfect. But the final surprise occured in the next morning, when I observed again a major improvement in sound quality. Bass decreased a little bit, but everything tightened. Conclusion was, the Audioplan FineFilter S needs one day to adjust to your equipment and cannot be fully judged in the same day you add it to your line. So if you ever try it, let it there for one day before you judge it.

So now my line looks somehow like this:






What I learned from here? Well, we need to filter the current we provide to the linear power supplies and it will make a difference. On Qutest this seemed not necessary, but here with TT2 and M Scaler the improvement was not subtle. More than this, the effect of M Scaler on full upscaling vs passive mode increased after adding the FineFilter S. I wonder how Qutest would sound in the current setup, but I already sold it.

Why I wrote this? I thought this was a nice experience which might be intersting to share. The Filter which saved the day was:
https://www.audioplan.de/mainspower-en/finefilter-en/?lang=en
When looking for it, on Ebay I saw 2 units ON SALE but unfortunately I could not order them, they are build for the UK plug standard:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiopla...-Filter-for-whole-system-ON-SALE/153462553305
These black ones are the Version 2, mine is the first version, but except cosmetics I am not sure if there is other difference.

For me Audioplan was something new, even if this company seems to have some history behind. Well, I will, for sure, be much more interested in this company in the future.

If anyone has more experience with Audioplan, or about FineFilter S, please share. I have become a believer of their magic. Nice weekend everyone.


----------



## barontan2418

OctavianH said:


> Without trying to be, again, offtopic, will present my next episode about power filtering, a subject we began to discuss some time ago on this thread. I know there are some users which are interested in this topic, and even if it does not contain any new information about the amplifier itself or tube rolling.
> 
> So, let's begin with the beginning. A few months ago, because I had an unexpected offer which could not be refused, I was able to make a significant upgrade on the DAC side, by adding Chord Hugo TT2 and Chord M Scaler to my inventory. Being a very happy owner of Qutest and before it of 2Qute, the choice to go on the same path was obvious. The same for the linear power supplies from MCRU which I always liked and considered a real improvement. So I replaced my Qutest and its MCRU power supply with TT2 + M Scaler and added also 2 MCRU LPS of 15V for them. The upgrade, soundwise, is not subtle, but to sumarize, because this is not the topic I want to cover, was a much larger soundstage where all the elements inside were somehow better defined. But this very large soundstage came also with passages where I heard sibilance or brightness. At first I was unsure if what I hear is an improvement or the cause or lack of synergy because brightness can be sometimes misleading, but the reputation of the new equipment made me have patience and try several other things before make a final assessment. So I upgraded BNC cables, I rolled some RCA interconnects and still, I was not totally pleased about what I was hearing compared to what I was used to listen when owning Qutest. During this time, my TT2 + M Scaler were connected via their LPS directly to a power distributor and Elise + my CD transport via the Furman to the same unit. And this was happening because I always had a wrong assumption that a linear power supply is also filtering and not only fully regulating the current.
> During this time, while trying to understand what is missing and if what I hear is real or only my brain is messing with me, I discussed with some local LPS manufacturer who told me "always lack of bass or brightness is solved on the power side". So I started to read and investigate, until I found a product from Audioplan, a company located in Germany, called FineFilter S which made me very curious. This power filter is designed to be a "collective" power filter which does not limit current or reduce dynamics even if it is used with amplifiers and, according to the Audioplan documentation, has to be put at the input of the whole line. It is basically a box with one input, one output and 2 switches. One of them is Ground Filtering ON/OFF and the other, with 3 positions, changes the sound signature and has the following options: Presence / Neutral / Bass.
> ...



Ordered one of the UK spec, thought it about time I endeavoured to clean up any issues with my power. I get a definite indication any time a light switch is used in the house so maybe this unit might help?


----------



## OctavianH

barontan2418 said:


> Ordered one of the UK spec, thought it about time I endeavoured to clean up any issues with my power. I get a definite indication any time a light switch is used in the house so maybe this unit might help?



Well, I think if it will not make the trick they have a decent return policy. Please be patient with it, for me it took 24-48 hours to settle and only after this time I started to be really happy about it. And since my unit was 2nd hand, a new one might need more. The person who used it before me upgraded to some expensive power regenerator, so this one was not needed anymore. Now after 2-3 weeks I can say it was a good decision. Let's hope it will be the same for you. Pricewise, the offer was fine, mine was bought in Germany in 2018 at around 600 EUR, so what they sell on Ebay is around half the price, a real sale offer.


----------



## Lucky87

Anyone here running a Euforia with Utopia's?


----------



## OctavianH

barontan2418 said:


> Ordered one of the UK spec, thought it about time I endeavoured to clean up any issues with my power. I get a definite indication any time a light switch is used in the house so maybe this unit might help?



Has your filter arrived? It helps?


----------



## barontan2418

OctavianH said:


> Has your filter arrived? It helps?


Not yet, still waiting but my new (silver wired?) six point power outlet is here waiting. Treated myself to a secondhand AK240 Dap in the meantime, love new toys.🤪


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 17, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> Without trying to be, again, offtopic, will present my next episode about power filtering, a subject we began to discuss some time ago on this thread. I know there are some users which are interested in this topic, and even if it does not contain any new information about the amplifier itself or tube rolling.
> 
> So, let's begin with the beginning. A few months ago, because I had an unexpected offer which could not be refused, I was able to make a significant upgrade on the DAC side, by adding Chord Hugo TT2 and Chord M Scaler to my inventory. Being a very happy owner of Qutest and before it of 2Qute, the choice to go on the same path was obvious. The same for the linear power supplies from MCRU which I always liked and considered a real improvement. So I replaced my Qutest and its MCRU power supply with TT2 + M Scaler and added also 2 MCRU LPS of 15V for them. The upgrade, soundwise, is not subtle, but to sumarize, because this is not the topic I want to cover, was a much larger soundstage where all the elements inside were somehow better defined. But this very large soundstage came also with passages where I heard sibilance or brightness. At first I was unsure if what I hear is an improvement or the cause or lack of synergy because brightness can be sometimes misleading, but the reputation of the new equipment made me have patience and try several other things before make a final assessment. So I upgraded BNC cables, I rolled some RCA interconnects and still, I was not totally pleased about what I was hearing compared to what I was used to listen when owning Qutest. During this time, my TT2 + M Scaler were connected via their LPS directly to a power distributor and Elise + my CD transport via the Furman to the same unit. And this was happening because I always had a wrong assumption that a linear power supply is also filtering and not only fully regulating the current.
> During this time, while trying to understand what is missing and if what I hear is real or only my brain is messing with me, I discussed with some local LPS manufacturer who told me "always lack of bass or brightness is solved on the power side". So I started to read and investigate, until I found a product from Audioplan, a company located in Germany, called FineFilter S which made me very curious. This power filter is designed to be a "collective" power filter which does not limit current or reduce dynamics even if it is used with amplifiers and, according to the Audioplan documentation, has to be put at the input of the whole line. It is basically a box with one input, one output and 2 switches. One of them is Ground Filtering ON/OFF and the other, with 3 positions, changes the sound signature and has the following options: Presence / Neutral / Bass.
> ...


Interesting, we both have Neotech Nei-2001 RCA cables and a Furman power conditioner.

A few brief things:
- Do you think the Audioplan would make an improvement even into the top Furman power conditioner IT Ref 15i? That's the one I have. But I use 120v.
- Do you think there's a risk of too much daisy chaining off the same power outlet which may blow a fuse, rather than re-routing it to use two power outlets?
- That's weird your DC LPSs seemed to benefit from an AC LPS. With my Qutest, its' LPS sounds the same with/without an AC power conditioner. A way to test it is to unplug the AC connection and listen for any difference, if there's any window before it shuts down.
- That's also weird your Elise sounded better on the power strip. Maybe try it again on the Furman with the Audioplan in the chain, or on different outputs of the Furman.
- Cables: (this is more for other people): use either thick shielded AC power cables, for instance Wireworld Aurora 7. These can make a noticeable improvement to almost all amps, even alone without a power conditioner, to a lesser extent.
- Try affixing clamp-on ferrite beads on the outside of a regular AC cables, as well as DC cables, USB cables, RCA coax and headphone cables. This is a hack that can literally save $100's on upgraded cables, improving firming up the dynamics and reducing injected HF noise. There are several different ratings of which frequency range these filter out so you can try combinations and see which sounds best on which cable. I have literally improved my overall system by a significant notch or two!


----------



## ESL-1

flea22 said:


> Big thanks for the information guys, will try a few more tricks to resolve the hum when I get a chance. I do have to add the hum was first heard using 421a and ecc32, this combo was dead silent for around 2 weeks.
> 
> The amp would only have around 25 hrs of use, maybe the hum is part of burn in?



Hi, I had a brand new Euforia on loan for 8 weeks and probably put almost 200 hours on it.  Never came across any wayward sounds of any sort, total silence regardless of which of my headphones I used and I tried all of my nicer ones.  Sonic performance hooked me on needing to get one in the not too distant future.  
Sorry to hear what you have happening, I hope some resolution starts happening soon for you.  Good luck.


----------



## mordy

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting, we both have Neotech Nei-2001 RCA cables and a Furman power conditioner.
> 
> A few brief things:
> - Do you think the Audioplan would make an improvement even into the top Furman power conditioner IT Ref 15i? That's the one I have. But I use 120v.
> ...


Hi Dl,
Can you send a link for those ferrite beads? Are you saying that different types have different effects? 
In the past I tried very inexpensive ones but had no luck with them on cables, although they seemed to help for hum when attached to the wire for an anode cap.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi Dl,
> Can you send a link for those ferrite beads? Are you saying that different types have different effects?
> In the past I tried very inexpensive ones but had no luck with them on cables, although they seemed to help for hum when attached to the wire for an anode cap.


I'm still in the middle of a big trial&error / research phase on which ferrite beads including combinations effect which cable the best, so I may post somewhere after a few weeks when it's more complete. In the meantime you can check out some of my initial developments *here*; although it's already slightly outdated.


----------



## OctavianH (Sep 18, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting, we both have Neotech Nei-2001 RCA cables and a Furman power conditioner.
> 
> A few brief things:
> - Do you think the Audioplan would make an improvement even into the top Furman power conditioner IT Ref 15i? That's the one I have. But I use 120v.
> ...



I think it is very hard to answer to these things since these are strictly related to everyone's environment. Something which works for me might not work for others.
More than this, my Furman unit has only 2 outputs, so in the past I was powering from it the Elise and the CXC and both LPS of JCAT and Qutest were directly plugged into the outlet. Now, with this Audioplan filter at the input of the whole line, all components (Elise, TT2, M Scaler, JCAT, CXC) are filtered at least by the FineFilterS and TT2 and the M Scaler also by the Furman. Please be aware also that TT2 is used only in DAC mode, so its internal amplifier is deactivated and we can consider it a digital component.
When I added the FineFilter S I also upgraded the power cable of Elise from Supra LoRad 2.5 SPC CS-EU to MCRU No. 75. So the effects might be related to both.
What I can say, at least for me, is:
- Detail and clarity were improved when I added the second filter. This might be related to the filtering of the TT2 and M Scaler MCRU power supplies or maybe because the Sbooster powering the JCAT was now filtered by something and not directly into the power outlet. Hard to say. For sure, the effect was the one described
- When putting Elise in Furman and the Furman in the FineFilter S something happened and I felt problems with dynamics and overall signature, so both were not good for Elise. I tried this 2 times at a week distance, to be sure, and in both cases I had the same feeling.
- The soundstage restricted a little bit, but the bass quantity increased and each instrument was better defined, here maybe we discuss about edge and separation.
Now, hard to say if these findings are general usable for everyone, I guess system might act different even at 110/240V.

Regarding "Elise sounded better on power strip" I guess the problem was that those 2 filters were not working fine together (capacitors or other electrical properties or hell knows why), Elise sounded as good as before adding the FineFilter S, because without any filter Elise sounded worse, if I remember correctly my findings when I bought the Furman.

Regarding daisy chaining, well I have not thought about this. I think my power outlet does not have a fuse, it has a parallel filter which I think only blocks the interference of one component to another. And it is star wired. You can see here the manual:
http://www.kempelektroniks.nl/FilesContent/menu/menu000222/pdf_ps_power_strip__eng.pdf



> POWER STRIP product specifications
> • Available with 4, 6 and 8 outlets
> •High grade grounded outlets and phase indication
> • Star wiring on each outlet with KE-POWER WIRE
> ...


This thing is built like a tank. So I guess it will be one of the first humanity remains discovered by aliens after we will disappear from earth.

Regarding ferrites, never tried them.

These power experiments are hard to describe, because my brain memory adjusts fast and sometimes it is hard to remember and assess correctly what you heard. To be able to make this as good as possible I would need a pair of each component and listen to them simultaneously, which is not very easy to do. Another thing to consider is that my headphone line is not a standard in audio since my source for digital files is my gaming PC. Having both these hobbies I cannot renounce on it and use a better suitable one for audio like a NAS or Macbook or something. Sometimes I play and also listen to my music, and I prefer a simple Alt+Tab and just put another album. And for this reason I needed to use the JCAT, a linear power supply for it, and to separate somehow the USB transmission from the rest of the PC. But this PC is also inducing/creating problems which others might not have. Therefore my experiments are somehow specific.


----------



## OctavianH

If nobody is posting here, I will be the culprit.



Listen to heavy metal people, heavy metal will never die.


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 1, 2020)

mordy said:


> HI BA,
> 
> I have been using the Euforia consistently (and before that the Elise) as a preamp. Volume is controlled by both the volume knob on the Euforia and the volume control on my integrated 110W ss amp.
> Usually I turn the Euforia volume to max and adjust the amp to a suitable volume level - according to the watt meter on the amp not more than 2W is needed.
> ...


Hi @mordy and other Feliks amp users. Kinda quiet in here but I do have a question about use of our amps as preamp. When Euforia is connected via line out to an amp. does the Euforia output automatically go to headphones when the headphones are plugged in, and to line out when they are not? I have Elise but presumably same behavior. Thanks for any information.


----------



## mayurs

Got my Euforia and the sound out of my ADX5000 and HD650 is absolutely the best I have ever heard. Loving it completely.


----------



## barontan2418

mayurs said:


> Got my Euforia and the sound out of my ADX5000 and HD650 is absolutely the best I have ever heard. Loving it completely.


And it will only get better
Enjoy.
Regards
Mick.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @mordy and other Feliks amp users. Kinda quiet in here but I do have a question about use of our amps as preamp. When Euforia is connected via line out to an amp. does the Euforia output automatically go to headphones when the headphones are plugged in, and to line out when they are not? I have Elise but presumably same behavior. Thanks for any information.


It is basically the same connection- whatever is plugged in is connected ; no internal switching. Preamp out, headphones connected; one or both at the same time.
I have heard of people who listen with headphones and speakers together and claim that it sounds better - I assume that in those cases the speakers have better bass than the headphones.
Depending on if you use headphones with a lower ohm rating (less than 300-600) you may experience lower speaker volume when you plug in the headphones simultaneously with the speakers.


----------



## OctavianH

mayurs said:


> Got my Euforia and the sound out of my ADX5000 and HD650 is absolutely the best I have ever heard. Loving it completely.



What can you say about ADX5000 in terms of build quality? That headband does not look very good to me and seems to be the weak point.


----------



## ESL-1 (Oct 1, 2020)

mayurs said:


> Got my Euforia and the sound out of my ADX5000 and HD650 is absolutely the best I have ever heard. Loving it completely.



I agree with Mick, depending on your play time the Euforia definitely benefits from break in.  I had on loan a brand new in box Euforia that a friend loaned me for two months (nice friend).  Eventually it sounded better with almost all my non electrostatic phones than any amp I have in my collection.

Enjoy!


----------



## ESL-1

OctavianH said:


> What can you say about ADX5000 in terms of build quality? That headband does not look very good to me and seems to be the weak point.



Yes, anxious to hear your take on the sound of the ADX5000 in addition to the answer on the headband.  I heard a pair at the last CanJam NYC and even in show conditions it sounded quite good.

Thanks


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> It is basically the same connection- whatever is plugged in is connected ; no internal switching. Preamp out, headphones connected; one or both at the same time.
> I have heard of people who listen with headphones and speakers together and claim that it sounds better - I assume that in those cases the speakers have better bass than the headphones.
> Depending on if you use headphones with a lower ohm rating (less than 300-600) you may experience lower speaker volume when you plug in the headphones simultaneously with the speakers.


So there is no option to listen to headphone only without unplugging the line out?


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> So there is no option to listen to headphone only without unplugging the line out?


If the equipment for line out isn’t turned on you can listen to the headphones only.
I I do not know what equipment you have, but my line out goes to a receiver and as long as it isn’t turned on only the headphones output works.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> If the equipment for line out isn’t turned on you can listen to the headphones only.
> I I do not know what equipment you have, but my line out goes to a receiver and as long as it isn’t turned on only the headphones output works.


Ah, great news as I will be sending the preamp. output to a pair of Audioengine HD3 active speakers, which can be powered off.

Thanks for the clarification, @mordy. Best, as always.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Ah, great news as I will be sending the preamp. output to a pair of Audioengine HD3 active speakers, which can be powered off.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification, @mordy. Best, as always.


Thanks - just wanted to clarify the other point about headphone volume. Low impedance headphones will have the effect that they will lower the volume to the speakers if they are turned on at the same time, but it is easy to compensate for it with the volume control.


----------



## TooFrank

ESL-1 said:


> I agree with Mick, depending on your play time the Euforia definitely benefits from break in.  I had on loan a brand new in box Euforia that a friend loaned me for two months (nice friend).  Eventually it sounded better with almost all my non electrostatic phones than any amp I have in my collection.
> 
> Enjoy!


How does the euforia work with Grado’s? Have an ifi iDSd micro BL and is considering using this as a DAC with the euforia. Thanks


----------



## ESL-1

Although I did not make any notes as I was just having too much fun it definitely sounded very good with all my Grados in addition with all my other phones, dynamic and planar.  To my ear the Euforia is a very special amp.   My available Grados at that time were GH3, GH2, GH1, PS500e, RS1 (vintage), GS2000e, GS3000e, PS2000e and the Joseph Grado Signature HP2.


----------



## LoryWiv

A tough night for my Feliks-Audio Elise, hoping someone in this learned thread can help. I received  2 GEC 6080 tubes, reportedly tested by seller, cleaned the pins with deoxit and a toothbrush as I always fo, waited 30 minutes and excitedly placed them in Elise power position. One tube glowed glorious, the other --> nothing, so I switched sides, re-seated both tubes and still no glow from the same tube as prior. Worse still though, now it made a loud crackling noise, almost firecracker-like, so I quickly turned amp off, removed it and let all cool down.

I can live with a DOA tube but the real concern is now that same socket / channel / circuit on the left of my amp is not outputting any sound even with tubes that glow normally and I know to be working .This happens across different headphones and driver tubes. Obviously, I am concerned the faulty tube damaged Elise. I am not particularly handy BUT if there is some simple step I can try (a user-replaceable fuse, for example) I'd appreciate any advice before I conclude I must send it in for repair.

I've always recognized there is risk with vintage equipment but it sucks quite a bit when it occurs. Trouble shooting advice will be much appreciated!


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> A tough night for my Feliks-Audio Elise, hoping someone in this learned thread can help. I received  2 GEC 6080 tubes, reportedly tested by seller, cleaned the pins with deoxit and a toothbrush as I always fo, waited 30 minutes and excitedly placed them in Elise power position. One tube glowed glorious, the other --> nothing, so I switched sides, re-seated both tubes and still no glow from the same tube as prior. Worse still though, now it made a loud crackling noise, almost firecracker-like, so I quickly turned amp off, removed it and let all cool down.
> 
> I can live with a DOA tube but the real concern is now that same socket / channel / circuit on the left of my amp is not outputting any sound even with tubes that glow normally and I know to be working .This happens across different headphones and driver tubes. Obviously, I am concerned the faulty tube damaged Elise. I am not particularly handy BUT if there is some simple step I can try (a user-replaceable fuse, for example) I'd appreciate any advice before I conclude I must send it in for repair.
> 
> I've always recognized there is risk with vintage equipment but it sucks quite a bit when it occurs. Trouble shooting advice will be much appreciated!


The Elise has some kind of protective circuitry. I had something similar happen once and the amp shut off. After a couple of hours off it came back to life.
Let’s hope this is the case.


----------



## mayurs

OctavianH said:


> What can you say about ADX5000 in terms of build quality? That headband does not look very good to me and seems to be the weak point.



I remember there were creaking issues with some initial units but they have completely eliminated these in all future' batches. The ADX5000 is one of the most comfortable headphones I have used and once on I completely forgot that it's on. Very light and very ergonomic.


----------



## mayurs

ESL-1 said:


> Yes, anxious to hear your take on the sound of the ADX5000 in addition to the answer on the headband.  I heard a pair at the last CanJam NYC and even in show conditions it sounded quite good.
> 
> Thanks


It's synergy with the Euforia is absolutely amazing to my ears. I have owned this HP for over a year now and was driving it on a good ss amp all this time. However it's a bit too hot for me on a SS amp but I did not give up on it as I could clearly see it's strengths of great resolution, speed, very good head stage especially height and wonderful lush female voices. So I started to look for a good tube amp and finally ended up with the Feliks Euforia for this and my other favourite headphone the HD650.

On the Euforia, all that elevated treble energy is gone, the head stage has expanded in both width and height, the top notch speed and resolution is intact and now I can hear the ADX5000 for hours together without any discomfort. I never thought I would say this but it destroys the HD650, which itself has scaled to new levels on the Euforia.


----------



## barontan2418 (Oct 6, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> A tough night for my Feliks-Audio Elise, hoping someone in this learned thread can help. I received  2 GEC 6080 tubes, reportedly tested by seller, cleaned the pins with deoxit and a toothbrush as I always fo, waited 30 minutes and excitedly placed them in Elise power position. One tube glowed glorious, the other --> nothing, so I switched sides, re-seated both tubes and still no glow from the same tube as prior. Worse still though, now it made a loud crackling noise, almost firecracker-like, so I quickly turned amp off, removed it and let all cool down.
> 
> I can live with a DOA tube but the real concern is now that same socket / channel / circuit on the left of my amp is not outputting any sound even with tubes that glow normally and I know to be working .This happens across different headphones and driver tubes. Obviously, I am concerned the faulty tube damaged Elise. I am not particularly handy BUT if there is some simple step I can try (a user-replaceable fuse, for example) I'd appreciate any advice before I conclude I must send it in for repair.
> 
> I've always recognized there is risk with vintage equipment but it sucks quite a bit when it occurs. Trouble shooting advice will be much appreciated!


Hi.
I had a similar experience which was resolved by completely disconnecting power to the amp, leaving for several hours, after which all was back to normal. There is an internal fuse I'm sure but as I've never opened my amp cannot help in this respect
Do hope all is resolved successfully.
Regards
Mick.


----------



## incredulousity

walakalulu said:


> I’ll be selling my 7 month old Euphoria Anniversary soon if anyone‘s interested as I need an amp with xlr output. UK only.



Are you sure? I love the Euforia AE, and have not yet started tube rolling with it (time to PM Deyan, I guess).

Just pipe the Euforia AE preamp out into the RCA inputs of your clean/neutral SS amp, and get your balanced XLR output with some nice Euforia AE color. I've done this with both Phonitor X and Topping A90. If your SS amp input can take it, turn up the Euforia to about 3 oclock. I get no hum in any position, but if you do, you would obviously want to stay below that threshold.

It's worth doing the experiment, and costs nothing, unless you lack a "transparent" SS amp.


----------



## LoryWiv

@mordy  and @barontan2418, thank you both for your comments and well-wishes. I did unplug it and when powered back on after several hours no love! There is a faint sound output from left channel but very low volume and strangely, not responsive to volume pot. I will leave it off another day and if still not back to full function reach out to Upscale Audio from whom I bought it and start the conversation about repair or replace. Ughhhh!


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> @mordy  and @barontan2418, thank you both for your comments and well-wishes. I did unplug it and when powered back on after several hours no love! There is a faint sound output from left channel but very low volume and strangely, not responsive to volume pot. I will leave it off another day and if still not back to full function reach out to Upscale Audio from whom I bought it and start the conversation about repair or replace. Ughhhh!


Doesn’t it come with a three year warranty?


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Doesn’t it come with a three year warranty?


I bought some non-standard tubes from Upscale and they told me it would void my warranty. ironic that it was standard, 6AS7G tube that caused the harm!


----------



## LoryWiv

@Bonddam, @incredulousity, @connieflyer and others with the Euforia Anniversary Edition, can you comment on the magnitude of  difference from Euforia "OG" given the price difference? Per my post above, my Elise is damaged and I'll need to decide if I want to invest in repairing it or perhaps splurge on Eufoiria OG or AE, and I'd especially love to hear impressions from anyone who's heard all 3 of these - Elise and both Euforia models.Appreciated!


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 8, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> @Bonddam, @incredulousity, @connieflyer and others with the Euforia Anniversary Edition, can you comment on the magnitude of  difference from Euforia "OG" given the price difference? Per my post above, my Elise is damaged and I'll need to decide if I want to invest in repairing it or perhaps splurge on Eufoiria OG or AE, and I'd especially love to hear impressions from anyone who's heard all 3 of these - Elise and both Euforia models.Appreciated!


Unfortunately, I have no experience with the OG Euforia. Connieflyer will be of more help here. I have no complaints about the AE at all. It is detailed, clear, noiseless, fun, and works brilliantly with my current collection of headphones. I consider it worth the expense, as it seems to lack the minor issues about which OG Euforia users have complained. There is one online review that compares the two versions in some detail, and raves about the AE. This, and posts of AE owners helped me to make my choice. I am sufficiently happy with mine, that I have not yet dived into tube rolling. Perhaps I won’t, now.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi I just ordered the Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade, which should sound something like the series 8 level. (For those who are familiar with Ayre). I have now the very old 24/96 version, the first edition. 😊 That upgrade should give my Euforia with Beyer T1.2 some more detail. I understood the Meze Empyrean and the ZMF Verite open are good matches but the Ayre upgrade was 1790 euro, I am a bit poor now. What to think of the HD800S??? Did anyone try those on the Euforia? The LCD-x??? Even though some people try “hard to drive cans” on the Euforia, I would like not to underpower my headphones. Some people say the Arya is just a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. I was happy to read some of you liked the ATH-ADX5000. That was nice to hear, since by exception, it was not on the topic of tube rolling. Not about the KT88. I like not only tubes, cans too. The Ayre QB-9 is only a second hand option, less expensive than the Chord TT2. The electronics inside of the upgrade are all new. Kind regards Yoram https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-ayre-acoustics-qb-9-twenty-r892/


----------



## JTbbb

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I just ordered the Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade, which should sound something like the series 8 level. (For those who are familiar with Ayre). I have now the very old 24/96 version, the first edition. 😊 That upgrade should give my Euforia with Beyer T1.2 some more detail. I understood the Meze Empyrean and the ZMF Verite open are good matches but the Ayre upgrade was 1790 euro, I am a bit poor now. What to think of the HD800S??? Did anyone try those on the Euforia? The LCD-x??? Even though some people try “hard to drive cans” on the Euforia, I would like not to underpower my headphones. Some people say the Arya is just a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. I was happy to read some of you liked the ATH-ADX5000. That was nice to hear, since by exception, it was not on the topic of tube rolling. Not about the KT88. I like not only tubes, cans too. The Ayre QB-9 is only a second hand option, less expensive than the Chord TT2. The electronics inside of the upgrade are all new. Kind regards Yoram https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-ayre-acoustics-qb-9-twenty-r892/



I have oppo PM2’s, Beyer t1.2’s and HD800S. To my ears the sennheiser’s match wonderfully with Euforia AE.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

JTbbb said:


> I have oppo PM2’s, Beyer t1.2’s and HD800S. To my ears the sennheiser’s match wonderfully with Euforia AE.


Thanks!


----------



## hpamdr (Oct 13, 2020)

Yoram Diamand said:


> What to think of the HD800S??? Did anyone try those on the Euforia?


(T1 is still a very musical match for me and one of the best compromise). 
But HD800s is a very good match with Euforia. It is more detailed than T1 and also more efficient.  

You can match it with many tube combo even with some that are not too powerful.
EL11 driver and EL39 power,   EL32 or 6J7 and EL12N as power, even 6J5 and 6BX7. With all this combo and HD800s, Euforia do not get hot at all even after hours of listening.
_--edited for clarity_


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, the new dac will give more detail, the hd800s even more. I hope my ears will survive.  Kind regards Yoram


----------



## nrbatista

Do any of you have experience pairing Euforia or Euforia AE with Abyss 1266 that you could share?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

nrbatista said:


> Do any of you have experience pairing Euforia or Euforia AE with Abyss 1266 that you could share?


 Let me tell you where it does not work with: the 1266 - Upscale Audio High Fidelity


----------



## Ficcion2

Speaking of planars; besides the Empyreans is anyone using another planar with great results?

I’ve been looking for a planar to replace my DCA Aeon 2 opens that also works with the Euforia.

Been enjoying the gold PSVanes And stock powers with my Verite O and HD6XX but the Aeons is a mismatch and would like to be able to drive all my headphones through my Euroria.


----------



## Ichos

I have used with great success and without any downsides the Hifiman Ananda , Sundara , Deva , HE400i 2020.


----------



## qboogie

I own the Feliks Echo with upgraded Amperex 7308 driver tubes (which are about as good as it gets for 6N1P-type tubes), which I use with Verite Open. I think it sounds pretty great, but I am wondering what can be achieved sound-wise by upgrading to the Euforia AE. 

I asked this question in the Echo thread however most of the users there are pretty new to the OTL amp game. To paraphrase, the response was "access to better tubes." I understand that the Euforia materials/components are of higher quality, and the output impedance is more inclusive of lower impedance headphones at 32-600 ohm (versus 100-600 ohm for Echo). Can anyone provide any valuable information regarding the benefits in sound quality (using the stock tubes or with upgraded tubes) when upgrading?

I apologize if this has been answered before. I did do a thread search for the answer but it hasn't been addressed. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ESL-1 (Oct 14, 2020)

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I just ordered the Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade, which should sound something like the series 8 level. (For those who are familiar with Ayre). I have now the very old 24/96 version, the first edition. 😊 That upgrade should give my Euforia with Beyer T1.2 some more detail. I understood the Meze Empyrean and the ZMF Verite open are good matches but the Ayre upgrade was 1790 euro, I am a bit poor now. What to think of the HD800S??? Did anyone try those on the Euforia? The LCD-x??? Even though some people try “hard to drive cans” on the Euforia, I would like not to underpower my headphones. Some people say the Arya is just a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. I was happy to read some of you liked the ATH-ADX5000. That was nice to hear, since by exception, it was not on the topic of tube rolling. Not about the KT88. I like not only tubes, cans too. The Ayre QB-9 is only a second hand option, less expensive than the Chord TT2. The electronics inside of the upgrade are all new. Kind regards Yoram https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-ayre-acoustics-qb-9-twenty-r892/



I was fortunate to have a brand new Euforia on loan for two months of sheer pleasure.  I did not find it lacking in push power with any of my assorted headphones (check my profile) and in fact it sounded absolutely great with all my phones, better than any of the current amps I have at home. 

 Obviously my electrostatics not included.  

High separation trauma for me since.

The Euforia is the only item on my want list.

Enjoy.....

PS  Should I get one I will be able to sell off a few of my amps since their particular specialties are all eclipsed by the Feliks.


----------



## Arcayne

qboogie said:


> I own the Feliks Echo with upgraded Amperex 7308 driver tubes (which are about as good as it gets for 6N1P-type tubes), which I use with Verite Open. I think it sounds pretty great, but I am wondering what can be achieved sound-wise by upgrading to the Euforia AE.
> 
> I asked this question in the Echo thread however most of the users there are pretty new to the OTL amp game. To paraphrase, the response was "access to better tubes." I understand that the Euforia materials/components are of higher quality, and the output impedance is more inclusive of lower impedance headphones at 32-600 ohm (versus 100-600 ohm for Echo). Can anyone provide any valuable information regarding the benefits in sound quality (using the stock tubes or with upgraded tubes) when upgrading?
> 
> I apologize if this has been answered before. I did do a thread search for the answer but it hasn't been addressed. Thanks in advance.


Aside from being tuned differently, there is a significant difference in sound quality between the Echo and Euforia, which can easily be heard on first listen without needing much experience or a pair of golden ears. I have not heard the Euforia AE though, so I couldn't tell you how much it differs from the 2019 model which I own. But if you have the money and means to just get the better of the 2 with no consideration of value, I'd expect that the AE is probably the better choice. 

In terms of sound quality vs the Echo, the Euforia is much more dynamic, and presents a greater sense of clarity, transparency and instrument separation. 
In terms of sound signature, the Euforia is much more neutral than the Echo, but with plenty of "tubeyness" that gives the sound that liquid smooth timbre, big 3-dimensional soundstage and that powerful fleshed out low-end with a satisfying punch. I especially adore the treble character of the Euforia, which has a lot of presence/energy, yet still takes away any unpleasantness/harshness. That makes it such a spectacular amp with so many different headphones, as it beautifully preserves the treble of darker headphones more clearly, yet still takes away the harshness out of brighter sounding headphones. 

The Echo is by no means a bad amp, in fact it's imo one of the very best <$1000 amps on the market today. The Euforia is just that much better, and its price tag is easily justified imo, especially when you've already got 1 or more pairs of headphones that will benefit from the upgrade, and the Vérité Open certainly belongs in that category imo.


----------



## Ficcion2

So has there been an clarification on the differences between a 2018 and 2019 Euforia model?

Cant find anything in the site.


----------



## qboogie

Arcayne said:


> Aside from being tuned differently, there is a significant difference in sound quality between the Echo and Euforia, which can easily be heard on first listen without needing much experience or a pair of golden ears. I have not heard the Euforia AE though, so I couldn't tell you how much it differs from the 2019 model which I own. But if you have the money and means to just get the better of the 2 with no consideration of value, I'd expect that the AE is probably the better choice.
> 
> In terms of sound quality vs the Echo, the Euforia is much more dynamic, and presents a greater sense of clarity, transparency and instrument separation.
> In terms of sound signature, the Euforia is much more neutral than the Echo, but with plenty of "tubeyness" that gives the sound that liquid smooth timbre, big 3-dimensional soundstage and that powerful fleshed out low-end with a satisfying punch. I especially adore the treble character of the Euforia, which has a lot of presence/energy, yet still takes away any unpleasantness/harshness. That makes it such a spectacular amp with so many different headphones, as it beautifully preserves the treble of darker headphones more clearly, yet still takes away the harshness out of brighter sounding headphones.
> ...


 This is exactly the response I was looking for. Thank you.


----------



## 1slyB

Arcayne said:


> The Euforia is just that much better, and its price tag is easily justified imo



I had a similar question as was looking at a upgrading my second amp and already have a Echo and love it so wanted to stay with Feliks Audio, I was torn between the Elise or the Euforia.  So the Euforia has a few upgrades from the Elise but is the Euforia a step up in terms of value for money or just in general?  Have the HD800s and ZMF Aeolus so want to stay with amps which sound good with these headphones.  

I know its silver Teflon wire, has a cross talk feature and slightly more powerful but is it worth the extra half the price with a more neutral sound?


----------



## OctavianH

I would say it depends on what you are looking for, and what headphones you use. For me the crosstalk function is useless and as far as I know not many people are using it. What Euforia also has is a bigger transformer and it is less receptive to noise coming from the power supply, but in my case, with 2 levels of power filtering, I do not really care about this.


----------



## 1slyB

Yeah I know most don't seem to use the cross talk feature.  I have some Siemens 6922 A4 tubes for my Echo which improved it immensely.  So is it better to get the Elise and upgrade the tubes or is the Euforia fundamentally better then the Elise due to improved internals?


----------



## OctavianH

If you go to the Euforia path, I would say Euforia AE should be the option. For me, at least, Elise is a decent amplifier and I am pleased with it.


----------



## 1slyB

OctavianH said:


> If you go to the Euforia path, I would say Euforia AE should be the option. For me, at least, Elise is a decent amplifier and I am pleased with it.


Why the AE edition, that one is twice the price of a Elise?  Is the normal Euforia not worth it?


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## OctavianH

Yes, it is a good option, but AE takes things forward, being wired with the NEI-2001 inside. All the people who upgraded to AE were pleased, so I guess, if you spend those money you go to the top. Regarding tubes, well, it does not matter what amplifier you choose, you will spend a lot to try them. Look at me, I spent 5x price of Elise on tubes.
I would say, go to a showroom and listen to them, for this price, it does make sense to try before buying.


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## 1slyB

OctavianH said:


> I would say, go to a showroom and listen to them, for this price, it does make sense to try before buying.



I cannot try one at a dealer as live in Australia and no dealer here at all, would have flown to Singapore to try one but alas Rona.  I like the look of the Elise better for me from reviews and it's half the price of the Euforia AE.


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## Arcayne

1slyB said:


> I had a similar question as was looking at a upgrading my second amp and already have a Echo and love it so wanted to stay with Feliks Audio, I was torn between the Elise or the Euforia.  So the Euforia has a few upgrades from the Elise but is the Euforia a step up in terms of value for money or just in general?  Have the HD800s and ZMF Aeolus so want to stay with amps which sound good with these headphones.
> 
> I know its silver Teflon wire, has a cross talk feature and slightly more powerful but is it worth the extra half the price with a more neutral sound?


"Worth it or not" is always a tough question to answer, and what's worth it for me might not be worth it for you. 

The Elise is definitely closer to the Euforia in its capabilities, but having had both side by side I did find there to be a large enough difference in sound to say that the Euforia is worth its higher price. Mainly in terms of dynamic capabilities and treble brilliance, the Euforia pulls ahead. But whether you'd want this or not is hard to say. Overall the Elise has a softer, warmer and more romantic sound while the Euforia is more lively and exciting. I chose the Euforia because it drives my Empyrean with much better control, and the Euforia's sound is a much better complement to the Empyrean's already warm/laid-back sound.


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## LoryWiv (Oct 19, 2020)

1slyB said:


> I cannot try one at a dealer as live in Australia and no dealer here at all, would have flown to Singapore to try one but alas Rona.  I like the look of the Elise better for me from reviews and it's half the price of the Euforia AE.


Elise is a terrific amp and great value proposition.I do suspect there is an increment of additional pleasure to be head from Euforbia OG or AE, and eaxch individual must determine if the upgrade is worth the dollars. I am considering this  yself but have been very happy with Elise for  ~ 1 1/2 years with minimal upgraditis syndrome, and that's saying something!


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## qboogie

LoryWiv said:


> Elise is a terrific amp and great value proposition.I do suspect there is an increment of additional pleasure to be head from Euforbia OG or AE, and eaxch individual must determine if the upgrade is worth the dollars. I am considering this  yself but have been very happy with Elise for  ~ 1 1/2 years with minimal upgraditis syndrome, and that's saying something!



1.5 years is an eternity in this game.


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## OctavianH

Usually the "upgraditis" comes when you are not fully pleased about your system. But when you reach a desired level you do not really want to change anything. Of course, there are people who are all the time buying new stuff because they are bored, but that is more a psychological problem than an audio one


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## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Usually the "upgraditis" comes when you are not fully pleased about your system. But when you reach a desired level you do not really want to change anything. Of course, there are people who are all the time buying new stuff because they are bored, but that is more a psychological problem than an audio one


Listen (pun intended), there are people who are listening to their system, and there are people who are listening to the music.
And I can’t say that one approach is preferable over the other. But it could be that people who are listening to their systems reach a level where the system disappears and only the music stands out.
Until something starts to bother you lol......


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## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Listen (pun intended), there are people who are listening to their system, and there are people who are listening to the music.
> And I can’t say that one approach is preferable over the other. But it could be that people who are listening to their systems reach a level where the system disappears and only the music stands out.
> Until something starts to bother you lol......


Agreed...and even when it doesn't actually "bother" you there is that small voice saying" this sounds so at, what would it sound like with just a pich more teeble sparkle"?


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## incredulousity

LoryWiv said:


> Agreed...and even when it doesn't actually "bother" you there is that small voice saying" this sounds so at, what would it sound like with just a pich more teeble sparkle"?



If EQ does not answer the question, sometimes more headphones are the only answer. This is a sad reality, for our wallets.


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## LoryWiv

incredulousity said:


> If EQ does not answer the question, sometimes more headphones are the only answer. This is a sad reality, for our wallets.


I'd counter that tube rolling is cheaper than new headphones, but not always the case.


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## incredulousity

LoryWiv said:


> I'd counter that tube rolling is cheaper than new headphones, but not always the case.


Sorry, I did not catch that you were referring to tube rolling. I have a Feliks Euforia AE, and have not gone there yet. My plan for sufficient choices of tubes/adapters/power for that eventuality, which I don't yet feel is absolutely necessary, will cost as much as mid-tier headphones. Tube rolling is a serious siren call into a very deep rabbit hole. I know myself very well in this type of things. I need to get my Verite Open before any more toys.


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## Eylrik

Euforia AE just arrived home and I paired it with my ZMF Verite Closed...what a perfect match !
Never heard the ZMF like this before. This is crazy good and quite revealing in terms of how far the VC can go with such a great OTL amp.
Source : Auralic Aries Femto 
DAC : Chord Qutest
Euforia tubes : Tungsol 7236 + PSVane CV-181 mkII


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## OctavianH

Eylrik said:


> Euforia AE just arrived home and I paired it with my ZMF Verite Closed...what a perfect match !



Pictures or it didn't happen.


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## incredulousity

Eylrik said:


> Euforia AE just arrived home and I paired it with my ZMF Verite Closed...what a perfect match !
> Never heard the ZMF like this before. This is crazy good and quite revealing in terms of how far the VC can go with such a great OTL amp.
> Source : Auralic Aries Femto
> DAC : Chord Qutest
> Euforia tubes : Tungsol 7236 + PSVane CV-181 mkII



This is great to hear. My Verité is under #10 on the production list since last Thursday, so hopefully a week or two only to wait! 

Was greatly enjoying the Empy (with alcantara and EQ) on the Euforia AE last night. It just does not get old. Verité may even be better. I’ll know soon.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi. I was not happy I had the Euforia but no great cans. So I went to the bank, and bought second hand Empyreans. 2000 Euro, half year old. PayPal. With the original invoice, (without there is no warranty). Even though the Verité are valued just as good, or better, not for sale as an occasion. Thus more expensive. Some argue the Empyreans have detail representing cans of 2000 Euro, not 3000. I can live with that. Kind regards Yoram


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## Ichos

I love this amp....


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## LoryWiv

LoryWiv said:


> @Bonddam, @incredulousity, @connieflyer and others with the Euforia Anniversary Edition, can you comment on the magnitude of  difference from Euforia "OG" given the price difference? Per my post above, my Elise is damaged and I'll need to decide if I want to invest in repairing it or perhaps splurge on Eufoiria OG or AE, and I'd especially love to hear impressions from anyone who's heard all 3 of these - Elise and both Euforia models.Appreciated!


Update: Sent my non-working Elise to Upscale Audio following a 6080 tube misadventure, and received it back today sounding better than ever! Kudos to John T. at Upscale repair, he was a pleasure to deal with, and determined that the bad tube should not have caused this problem and did the repair at no cost. Expertise, honesty and integrity is a potent combination, and I'll be thinking Upscale Audio as first choice if / when I upgrade. For now, I'm thrilled to be keeping company again with Elise!


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## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Update: Sent my non-working Elise to Upscale Audio following a 6080 tube misadventure, and received it back today sounding better than ever! Kudos to John T. at Upscale repair, he was a pleasure to deal with, and determined that the bad tube should not have caused this problem and did the repair at no cost. Expertise, honesty and integrity is a potent combination, and I'll be thinking Upscale Audio as first choice if / when I upgrade. For now, I'm thrilled to be keeping company again with Elise!


Happy to hear about the good news! It’s such a good feeling to be able to enjoy a good amp again when you have been without it.....


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## Eylrik (Oct 25, 2020)

A picture (as requested !) before the next listening session : our beloved Euforia bringing light to ZMF Verite Closed & Focal Utopia.


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## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Happy to hear about the good news! It’s such a good feeling to be able to enjoy a good amp again when you have been without it.....


You are so right, @mordy. I've also recently added some Audioengine HD3 active speakers to my desktop and have been listening via Bluetooth, but since Elise returned using it's line out as preamp. to the HD3. While Bluetooth is surprisingly good, the HD3 sing at a whole new level via Elise, both in clarity / detail and musicality, with just a touch of sweetness. And Elise driving my ZMF Auteur remains a great listening pleasure.


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## mayurs

I am very happy with the preamp out to my power amp from the Euforia to run my Hifiman HE6SE. Way better sound using the Euforia as a pre vs using the out of my Morpheus DAC.


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## connieflyer

I have to agree, using the euphoria preamp out through my gungnir dac really makes a difference. The anthem MRX 720 with the SBS Tower speakers and sub is no slouch believe me. But running the euphoria through it has really made a difference. Plus the fact that you can roll in different tubes to change the tone is also a large Plus presently running for GU 50 + 2 ken rad vt231


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## incredulousity

I love to run Euforia AE preamp out to Phonitor X, to either powered speakers, or to headphones that I want to run balanced. A lot of the toooooby goodness is preserved. For phones that play well with Euforia, I prefer it. It’s magical with the Sennheiser 650 and 800S, and great with Empy. We’ll see how Verité plays in a week or so. The suspense is killing me.

@connieflyer: could you help me with a shopping list of what I need to do dual power tubes(GU50 or KT88), and appropriate drivers (KT66, 77, 88... other suggestions?). I’m not comfortable building the power adapters for the GU50s, so any guidance where I might commission some would be helpful. I presume that adapters from @Deyan are still preferred.

Thanks for any help you can kindly provide.


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## LoryWiv (Oct 27, 2020)

incredulousity said:


> I love to run Euforia AE preamp out to Phonitor X, to either powered speakers, or to headphones that I want to run balanced. A lot of the toooooby goodness is preserved. For phones that play well with Euforia, I prefer it. It’s magical with the Sennheiser 650 and 800S, and great with Empy. We’ll see how Verité plays in a week or so. The suspense is killing me.


I bought some AudioEngine HD3 which were good but not spectacular with it's internal DAC / amp. but added Feliks-Audio Elise as pre-amp. --> the magic happened! Another plus is  that the HD3 has a 3.5mm headphone out jack so I can use my IEM's that the Elise's high output impedance would preclude using directly, and it's really nice to be able to use low impedance IEM's  with Elise in the chain!

Is there anything Elise / Euforia don't do well or improve? If so, I haven't found it yet!


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## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> I have to agree, using the euphoria preamp out through my gungnir dac really makes a difference. The anthem MRX 720 with the SBS Tower speakers and sub is no slouch believe me. But running the euphoria through it has really made a difference. Plus the fact that you can roll in different tubes to change the tone is also a large Plus presently running for GU 50 + 2 ken rad vt231


Really beautiful set up, @connieflyer!


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## incredulousity (Oct 27, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> I bought some AudioEngine HD3 which were good but not spectacular with it's internal DAC / amp. but added Feliks-Audio Elise as pre-amp. --> the magic happened! Another plus is  that the HD3 has a 3.5mm headphone out jack so I can use my IEM's that the Elise's high output impedance would preclude using directly, and it's really nice to be able to use low impedance IEM's  with Elise in the chain!
> 
> Is there anything Elise / Euforia don't do well or improve? If so, I haven't found it yet!



In my experience, they are not great with sensitive IEMs like JH13. I’m sure that an appropriate impedance adapter would fix that easily.

My speakers are Audioengine A5+, but thinking of Hedd 30 entirely too much.


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## connieflyer

incredulousity said:


> I love to run Euforia AE preamp out to Phonitor X, to either powered speakers, or to headphones that I want to run balanced. A lot of the toooooby goodness is preserved. For phones that play well with Euforia, I prefer it. It’s magical with the Sennheiser 650 and 800S, and great with Empy. We’ll see how Verité plays in a week or so. The suspense is killing me.
> 
> @connieflyer: could you help me with a shopping list of what I need to do dual power tubes(GU50 or KT88), and appropriate drivers (KT66, 77, 88... other suggestions?). I’m not comfortable building the power adapters for the GU50s, so any guidance where I might commission some would be helpful. I presume that adapters from @Deyan are still preferred.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can kindly provide.


Good Morning,  I have used all those combinations, and on the KT's there are sutle differences.  The 66 and 88;s are very close, the 88 brings a little more power it seems and a lift if treble. The 66 seems a little softer, but still refined. The 77's are the ones that I found were the best when  used with other tubes.  As to the dual adapters, I had bad luck with the ones from China from MrsX, when used with the dual 88's and had a friend and member here build my a set of adapters.  He no longer makes the adapters, so I would try Deyan and see if he would build them. I have used some of his adapters and found them to be of good quality.  I know he was in touch with the member that built mine for advice, but I am not sure if he followed through on them. The GU50 also requires an external transformer as it uses 12 volt heaters and our amp can only supply 6 volts.So you would need one of those and special adapters for them as well. I find them well worth the trouble and expense. They have been my go to combination for the last six months.  Good luck


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## incredulousity

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning,  I have used all those combinations, and on the KT's there are sutle differences.  The 66 and 88;s are very close, the 88 brings a little more power it seems and a lift if treble. The 66 seems a little softer, but still refined. The 77's are the ones that I found were the best when  used with other tubes.  As to the dual adapters, I had bad luck with the ones from China from MrsX, when used with the dual 88's and had a friend and member here build my a set of adapters.  He no longer makes the adapters, so I would try Deyan and see if he would build them. I have used some of his adapters and found them to be of good quality.  I know he was in touch with the member that built mine for advice, but I am not sure if he followed through on them. The GU50 also requires an external transformer as it uses 12 volt heaters and our amp can only supply 6 volts.So you would need one of those and special adapters for them as well. I find them well worth the trouble and expense. They have been my go to combination for the last six months.  Good luck



Thank you. Do I need one 12V DC transformer for the entire setup, per side, or for each tube? Is there ever any reason to run dual tubes as the drivers?


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## barontan2418

incredulousity said:


> Thank you. Do I need one 12V DC transformer for the entire setup, per side, or for each tube? Is there ever any reason to run dual tubes as the drivers?


Hi.
Just the one 12volt transformer. Leicke make a very good one at a fair price. I've used this model to heat 4 tubes (GU50's and GEC88's no problem.


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## mordy

All you need is a power supply for 12V that has enough capacity for the tubes. The GU-50 is 0.8A each - to be safe you need three times that for the in-rush current: 2x0.8x3=4.8A. A 5A PS will be fine.
Personally, using different tubes, I used an PC power supply from an old discarded computer. You just have to find the 12V connector; even an old PC PS has more than enough capacity.


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## incredulousity

mordy said:


> All you need is a power supply for 12V that has enough capacity for the tubes. The GU-50 is 0.8A each - to be safe you need three times that for the in-rush current: 2x0.8x3=4.8A. A 5A PS will be fine.
> Personally, using different tubes, I used an PC power supply from an old discarded computer. You just have to find the 12V connector; even an old PC PS has more than enough capacity.



Thank you both!


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## connieflyer

incredulousity I just found a possible other source for the sockets,  https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/GM50/index-GM50-Portraits.html at the very bottom of the page they make the statement  " *WE SELL THE SOCKET FOR THIS TUBE ALSO. * " they also sell the tubes. So this could be another lead for you. I have purchased from them in the past.


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## incredulousity

connieflyer said:


> incredulousity I just found a possible other source for the sockets,  https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/GM50/index-GM50-Portraits.html at the very bottom of the page they make the statement  " *WE SELL THE SOCKET FOR THIS TUBE ALSO. * " they also sell the tubes. So this could be another lead for you. I have purchased from them in the past.



Thank you so much! I shall look into it.


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## Eylrik

I am including the Audeze LCD3 to the shootout.
And will see how the Euforia performs with planar as well. Stay tuned !


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## OctavianH

Great photo, many thanks. I see in your signature that you also have the Elise. When you have time, if you can share your thoughts regarding Elise vs Euforia AE and the biggest differences in sound reproduction, I would be interested. I always ask about this, because I am curious to see how these models scale with different headphones and you have, for sure, an impressive collection.

On the other hand, I've done quite a lot of rolling in the last days, I was able to break a tube because it fell out of my hand, but in the end learned something about the Verite Open vs T1.2. And what I learned was that Verite Open sounds better than T1.2 on stock 6SN7 / 6AS7G, the reason might be that these are more linear in terms of sound reproduction. The T1.2 are more romantic, let's say, even if both headphones are on warm territory, and the mids are recessed, sweetened, and because also of the V-shaped warmer signature, for me sounds better on tubes which insist a little bit on de mid frequencies and in the same time are brighter. In this case the KT66/77/88 are better. Of course, this is just a personal preference. Verite scales also a lot with quality cables, a silver cable taking it into another dimension for me. More detail, brighter but with less harshness and aggressivity, keeping the overal signature in the same area.


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## Eylrik (Oct 28, 2020)

Well, actually I’ve upgraded from Elise to Euforia AE so I no longer own the Elise (you have reminded me to edit my signature).

The Elise is a great amp, very sensitive to tube rolling as everyone knows, but also sensitive to cables from my opinion (power and interconnects). Finding the right combination of elements for one's system can be a long journey, but ends up to be very satisfying for sure. I managed to get the Elise pair really well with my previous headphones, ie Focal Clear and Audeze LCD2C (despite the latter being a planar). But once I upgraded to Utopia and LCD3, I felt that the Elise somehow reached its limits, not really exploiting my new headphones’ potential.

The Euforia AE is a different beast.
At first, it looks like it is less prompt to « drastic » changes regarding tube rolling (I’ve tried a variety of 6AS7,6SN7, EL32, EL84 etc. but I have not tried KT series yet). Or, put differently, there is no real bad sounding tube combination with the Euforia, so less suprises maybe. And yes, one could say the Euforia is not as romantic sounding as the Elise, because the Elise is warmer and does exhibit some very pleasing lushness and intimacy.
However, with that said...I don’t see any single technical aspect where the Euforia AE does not outmatch the Elise : bass, midrange, treble, soundstage, accuracy, speed, silence...you can name them all. The Euforia AE plays in a different league. Five-star technical achievements with superb musicality. No surprise there...given the price tag ! The Euforia sounds fantastic with the Utopia and the Verite Closed, way better than the Elise (which however does a very good job) in the same setup.

In the end, it might make sense to own both of them, in order to get two kinds of tuning at hand, and if budget is not a problem of course. It is also very much dependent on the kind of headphone you own. But no doubt TOTL headphones would deserve the Euforia AE to really shine.


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## OctavianH

I agree with you in every statement related to Elise. I had the same results when filtering the power or changing the interconnects. Now regarding the fact that Euforia is less prompt to drastic changes, I am not sure if this is a good thing or not. I mean, if you really want an amplifier which sounds good and you do not plan to make any tube rolling, you definitely buy something from UltraSonic Studios.

By the way, what is your opinion on Halgorythme amplifiers? I've seen them from a long time, but I was not able to find out too much about them.


----------



## mayurs

Have a quick question for experienced Euforia users. I am using the Euforia as  pre amp to my solid state power amp to run HiFiman HE6SE. So as you know that the Euforia outputs both to the pre amp out as well as to the SE Headphone jack. simultaneously. Is it necessary to keep a Headphone plugged in to the SE Headphone jack when outputting signal to the power amp through the RCA cable from the preamp out of the Euforia or is it OK to use it as preamp without any Headphone plugged in to the headphone jack?

Thanks in advance.


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## Eylrik (Oct 29, 2020)

mayurs said:


> Have a quick question for experienced Euforia users. I am using the Euforia as  pre amp to my solid state power amp to run HiFiman HE6SE. So as you know that the Euforia outputs both to the pre amp out as well as to the SE Headphone jack. simultaneously. Is it necessary to keep a Headphone plugged in to the SE Headphone jack when outputting signal to the power amp through the RCA cable from the preamp out of the Euforia or is it OK to use it as preamp without any Headphone plugged in to the headphone jack?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hi,
No need to plug a headphone to use the Euforia as a preamp.


----------



## connieflyer

mayurs said:


> Have a quick question for experienced Euforia users. I am using the Euforia as  pre amp to my solid state power amp to run HiFiman HE6SE. So as you know that the Euforia outputs both to the pre amp out as well as to the SE Headphone jack. simultaneously. Is it necessary to keep a Headphone plugged in to the SE Headphone jack when outputting signal to the power amp through the RCA cable from the preamp out of the Euforia or is it OK to use it as preamp without any Headphone plugged in to the headphone jack?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Not necessary to have a headphone plugged in a few using it as a preamp. That's the way I've been doing it for years with the Alycia fauria and with the a e so no problem doing that.


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## Eylrik (Oct 29, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> I agree with you in every statement related to Elise. I had the same results when filtering the power or changing the interconnects. Now regarding the fact that Euforia is less prompt to drastic changes, I am not sure if this is a good thing or not. I mean, if you really want an amplifier which sounds good and you do not plan to make any tube rolling, you definitely buy something from UltraSonic Studios.
> 
> By the way, what is your opinion on Halgorythme amplifiers? I've seen them from a long time, but I was not able to find out too much about them.



Well, what I meant is that Euforia does not have the same temperament. It is more neutral than the Elise by nature. So whenever I change tubes on the Euforia, I might seek to give it some additional warmth. That was quite the opposite with the Elise.
Actually, I am listening to some nice jazz with a pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7WGT as I am writing, and the change vs the PSVane is quite obvious. More depth, with a mellow midrange...superb with voices. Forgot also to mention how great the Euforia performs as a preamp (now playing on a pair of Klipsch Forte III).

As for Halgorythme, it is a French company, whose owner, Cédric Halgrin, builds bespoke tube amplifiers. He has acquired some great reputation in France and in Europe, based on superb craftsmanship, top quality components and a great knowledge of tubes and music. My amplifier is based on R120 tubes (see pictures below) and was designed to drive headphones between 50 and 300 ohms. It is refined and accurate, warm and dense in the lows, quite close to 300B valves, but with more speed and impact. The philosophy of this amp is quite different from the Euforia and I should compare them directly one day.


----------



## JTbbb

Hi Guys, 

I thought it was time to come along and put up my first post in this Euforia thread.

I had been hankering for several months to get a tube headphone amp into my system, so that I could enjoy the tube sound, and of course to be able to “tube roll.” It’s quite an alien concept to change the way an amp sounds by changing electronic components, you just plug in and out!

Near the beginning of September (Blimey I seem to have done such a lot since then) I came across a second hand Euforia AE with standard tubes, which was 7 months old, and which now is part of my system. I have to say the amp sounded really good from the get go with the standard tubes.

Tubes.....man these amps ought to come with a warning!! I decided to do a lot of research into tubes, and what a fascinating subject it is, and complex. In the end I decided to stay with the tube types that are recommended by Feliks, and try and get the best I could afford. To this end I would like to thank members from here, and the tube rolling threads for your help with my questions, and also one member who through PM’s sold me a few pairs of tubes.

Not including the OEM tubes, I now have 4 sets of drivers and 3 sets of powers! The pic shows you where I’m up to at the moment. I have rolled all the drivers with the 5998’s and they all sound excellent, but those 5692’s are sublime and absolutely silent. The other sets of drivers, which are mostly nos and older have the minutest buzz/hum, which is barely noticeable and disappears as soon as any quiet passage starts. From what I’ve read I think this is normal.
Another discovery is those original drivers are rather good and could quite easily stay, whereas the original powers were easily beaten. Perhaps a little unfair though as those 5998’s are exceptional.

Well, I still have my powers to roll at some time and of course each with the drivers, so this should keep me suitably employed for some time yet.

Apologies for my rambling.


----------



## Eylrik

JTbbb said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I thought it was time to come along and put up my first post in this Euforia thread.
> 
> ...



Very good choice and very nice setup ! 
You can’t be wrong with 5998 power tubes. I very much like the 7236 as well, less rounded but more dynamic.
As for the 5692 drivers, they are fantastic tubes indeed. Triple getter, not microphonic, a bit softer than the 6SN7 variants and very musical. Superb build quality and a lifetime of 10000 hours !


----------



## OctavianH

Well, you caught me, I renounced today on my KT66 and put some Tung Sol 5998. But in my case I use the Euforia stock drivers on Elise, the Psvane CV181T2. This was my favourite combo for some time.


----------



## JTbbb

Eylrik said:


> Very good choice and very nice setup !
> You can’t be wrong with 5998 power tubes. I very much like the 7236 as well, less rounded but more dynamic.
> As for the 5692 drivers, they are fantastic tubes indeed. Triple getter, not microphonic, a bit softer than the 6SN7 variants and very musical. Superb build quality and a lifetime of 10000 hours !



Yes I have the 7236’s to try and a pair of Mullard 6080’s. Happy days.


----------



## JTbbb

I’ve been reading on a Darkvoice thread where you can “run in” a driver tube by removing the power tube, then switching power on for a few days. If this is a common practice, is it something that could be done with Euforia? I must admit that after all my readings these last few weeks, it’s the first time I’ve come across a piece of information advising this.


----------



## Arcayne

JTbbb said:


> I’ve been reading on a Darkvoice thread where you can “run in” a driver tube by removing the power tube, then switching power on for a few days. If this is a common practice, is it something that could be done with Euforia? I must admit that after all my readings these last few weeks, it’s the first time I’ve come across a piece of information advising this.


From what I've understood with Feliks Audio amps is that you should never power them on without all of the tubes installed. Best send an email to Feliks Audio if you want to be sure.


----------



## OctavianH

Arcayne said:


> From what I've understood with Feliks Audio amps is that you should never power them on without all of the tubes installed. Best send an email to Feliks Audio if you want to be sure.



This is perfectly true. Please see the Manual here

From the manual:



> *INSTALLATION AND break-IN PERIOD*
> Before turning the amplifier on for the first time, please install the tubes in the sockets, as described on the illustration. Take care while installing the tubes, ensure the pins fit appropriate holes in the socket. New amplifier requires a break-in period which takes place during normal use of the device. Please note that the optimal sound quality will be reached after approximately 30 – 50 hours of operation. In day to day use, tubes reach their operational temperature after 15 minutes from starting the device. *All tubes must be installed before turning on the amp.* Never place the unit in an unstable location. A device may fall, causing serious personal injury or death. Only use furniture that can safely support the device. Ensure that the amplifier is not overheating the edge of the supporting furniture. Do not place the device on tall furniture without anchoring the furniture. Do not place the amplifier on cloth or other materials that may be located between the unit and supporting furniture. Keep away the device from the reach of children.


----------



## mordy

My experience has been that the amp requires upwards of 150 hours break-in. Tubes vary considerably how long they need to sound their best - a good rule is 30-50 hours, but some tubes may need upwards of 200 hours or more. As a rule, it is a pleasant journey to notice the changes in sound over time. Usually it is not gradual - suddenly you realize that the sound has changed and is different and better.
Most tubes benefit from being warmed up before they sound their best. Most tubes require around 15 minutes, but many older large tubes and all metal tubes usually need around 30 minutes.


----------



## OctavianH

I might add that this break in period definitely improves the qualities of a tube, but if the synergy was not good at the beginning it will not change substantially. I never had the situation of disliking something in the first hours and later, after the break it love them. I usually make an opinion in the first hours and keep it. Of course, if it sounds good from the begninning it will get better, but if it sounds awful, do not expect miracles. I am curious if others think the same.


----------



## Bonddam

Pairing I like is the RAD-0 lower impedance at 29 ohms. Notice more low end with Tung Sol 5998 power then my more neutral WA33. Can't detect any distortion not sure if I'm clipping at about 11 on the volume dial.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Eylrik said:


> I am including the Audeze LCD3 to the shootout.
> And will see how the Euforia performs with planar as well. Stay tuned !


Hi, I ordered an Meze Empyrean, but I wonder if the HE 1000 SE and the LCD 4Z would agree with the Euforia. I had money for the Empyrean only. A Dutch shop that sells the Euforia, Ears Unlimited, told me, the Arya is a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. Perhaps the LCD 3 are also too hard to drive???


----------



## Bonddam

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I ordered an Meze Empyrean, but I wonder if the HE 1000 SE and the LCD 4Z would agree with the Euforia. I had money for the Empyrean only. A Dutch shop that sells the Euforia, Ears Unlimited, told me, the Arya is a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. Perhaps the LCD 3 are also too hard to drive???


I use the hekse on Euphoria and after noon on the dial it clips but it sounds good. Headphones in my stable that work are Empyrean, LCD4, Verite, RAD-0, Fostex TH909, Kennerton Gjallarhorn. The rest don’t work because sensitivity is to low. I was surprised that the RAD-0 work because it’s below 32 ohms which is the claimed lowest impedance of the Euphoria.  The rest of the headphones clip the amp after 12 anything below is fine just low to very low volume. If you are buying low impedance cans make sure they have high sensitivity.


----------



## MatW (Nov 20, 2020)

I just got a Euforia and listened to it yesterday with an LCD XC, which is 20 ohms, 100 dB/mW. It sounded good, and no issues with clipping. Does that surprise you or match with what you are saying? The volume dial never went beyond 11 o' clock though.


----------



## Bonddam

MatW said:


> I just got a Euphoria and listened to it yesterday with an LCD XC, which is 20 ohms, 100 dB/mW. It sounded good, and no issues with clipping. Does that surprise you or match with what you are saying? The volume dial never went beyond 11 o' clock though.


Yes that is what I was getting at. It's good we can pass along lower then 32 ohms working on the Euphoria. I'd like to see if the LCD4z works.


----------



## Eylrik

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I ordered an Meze Empyrean, but I wonder if the HE 1000 SE and the LCD 4Z would agree with the Euforia. I had money for the Empyrean only. A Dutch shop that sells the Euforia, Ears Unlimited, told me, the Arya is a bit too hard to drive for the Euforia. Perhaps the LCD 3 are also too hard to drive???



I don’t think there would be any trouble driving the Arya with the Euforia. As a matter of fact, according to Euforia AE’s review by Headfonia, even the Hifiman Susvara can be driven by the Euforia. They even describe this combo as « magical »...

As for my LCD3 (2019 model), which is 110 ohms and 101 db, I usually listen at 10 and would never go beyond 11(which is way too loud).


----------



## mayurs

Eylrik said:


> I don’t think there would be any trouble driving the Arya with the Euforia. As a matter of fact, according to Euforia AE’s review by Headfonia, even the Hifiman Susvara can be driven by the Euforia. They even describe this combo as « magical »...
> 
> As for my LCD3 (2019 model), which is 110 ohms and 101 db, I usually listen at 10 and would never go beyond 11(which is way too loud).



Does the AE have a much higher power output? Asking coz my HE6SE is not at driven well and I hear it clipping easily on my Stock Euforia. So I doubt if the Susvara will be driven well.


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## Eylrik (Nov 6, 2020)

mayurs said:


> Does the AE have a much higher power output? Asking coz my HE6SE is not at driven well and I hear it clipping easily on my Stock Euforia. So I doubt if the Susvara will be driven well.



Not sure about a different power output...Feliks Audio only mentions :

New low-noise-design power transformer - provides even better electromagnetic interference isolation
Redesigned Constant-current source modules to give rock-solid operating conditions, regardless of the external factors
And this is what 6moons say about regular Euforia + Susvara :

« Given the published power rating, I was certain that the very inefficient HifiMan Susvara planars would choke. Instead they took off in full flight between 12-13:00 on the clock. I had headroom to spare. And that off a vanilla 2V source, not specially goosed high-gain exception. Clearly not all specs mean the same. »


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## MatW (Nov 6, 2020)

I recently received a Euforia (non AE), and have the Susvara. The Euforia is in the living room, where I normally use closed backs to not bother the rest of the family, so I have not used it to drive the Susvara yet, but I can try later today.

Update: no good. Sure it's quite loud but it does not bring out the low end, hardly at all. For comparison, I switched to the Topping A90, which does much better in that regard, but lacks some finesse.

I think the original question was about the Arya. I don't know about that headphone, surely it's easier to drive than the Susvara.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Meze in the mail today. Less treble focussed than the Stax L700. I am happy.


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 9, 2020)

I have to admit that these "globe" Psvanes are one of the most interesting things I've seen on this thread recently. I cannot say why, but it takes me to think about this:






Or better, this one?





Anyway, there's something oriental there.

PS: not my pictures, were taken from Google.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

OctavianH said:


> I have to admit that these "globe" Psvanes are one of the most interesting things I've seen on this thread recently. I cannot say why, but it takes me to think about this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes they look very different, but they are sold as if very special Psvane, and they really do not fit side by side. The Sound seemed good or even better than TII Psvane. Thanks for the nice pictures.


----------



## OctavianH

Yoram Diamand said:


> Yes they look very different, but they are sold as if very special Psvane, and they really do not fit side by side. The Sound seemed good or even better than TII Psvane. Thanks for the nice pictures.



I started recently to listen again to the CV181T2 with 5998 and the cause were the Verite Open which pair better with traditional 6SN7/6AS7 than with my KT tubes. Can you compare the CV181T2 with these "globe"? What is different in terms of sound? By the way, these CV181T2 need a very long burn in, for me I had to wait for at least 200 hrs to be sure that they "stabilised". The "globe" ones are the same?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

OctavianH said:


> I started recently to listen again to the CV181T2 with 5998 and the cause were the Verite Open which pair better with traditional 6SN7/6AS7 than with my KT tubes. Can you compare the CV181T2 with these "globe"? What is different in terms of sound? By the way, these CV181T2 need a very long burn in, for me I had to wait for at least 200 hrs to be sure that they "stabilised". The "globe" ones are the same?


It is a few month now that I listen to the 6SN7SE globes, but I rememder them more clear, transparant and a bit louder. And I switched to the globes as I thought I liked them better. Better than the CV181 TII. The price is strange. 100 euro matched pair at ebay, but 200 matched pair at Aliexpress. In Aliexpress they were more expensive than the T2. And I had to lift one tube into the sky.


----------



## mordy

I am very wary of the Psvane marketing of these tubes:









Different colors of the glass and shape and different price points - my gut feeling is that they are all the same in different wrappers. Reminds me of a story of vodka (told to me by a worker) that was sold at eight different price points in plain to fancy bottles, but it was all the same vodka....


----------



## OctavianH

mordy said:


> Different colors of the glass and shape and different price points - my gut feeling is that they are all the same in different wrappers. Reminds me of a story of vodka (told to me by a worker) that was sold at eight different price points in plain to fancy bottles, but it was all the same vodka....



This might be very possible, but I have to admit that the CV181T2 are quite good tubes, maybe the best new production tubes I own. So I am quite curious in these Christmas globes.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

OctavianH said:


> This might be very possible, but I have to admit that the CV181T2 are quite good tubes, maybe the best new production tubes I own. So I am quite curious in these Christmas globes.


----------



## les24preludes

I've found this a very educational thread. I bought some EL38s as a result, but I'm not wildly enthusiastic as in past posts. Yes, it's very clear and clean and has good bass. Hard to criticise except the sound is quite 2-dimensional and lacks the full, warm midrange of e.g. the EL33 which is much more involving with voices.


----------



## mayurs

I see a lot of love here for KT88 tubes being used as both power and driver tubes with the Euforia(haven't been through the whole thread here). But I have a basic doubt that other than the need of adapters which are needed which is fine,  are these tubes not detrimental to the normal operation from an electrical/electronic point of view. Is there something else needed to run these tubes on the Euforia?


----------



## OctavianH

No, I run them for more than one year in Elise. If you do not exceed the 6.5-7A limitation is fine, and these have less than the stock 6AS7.
KT66 = 1.3A and KT88 = 1.6A. So a quad of KT88  = 6.4A. If you run the stock tubes, you have 2x2.5A+2x0.6A = 6.2A. Up to 7A in Euforia is OK.


----------



## mayurs (Nov 16, 2020)

OctavianH said:


> No, I run them for more than one year in Elise. If you do not exceed the 6.5-7A limitation is fine, and these have less than the stock 6AS7.
> KT66 = 1.3A and KT88 = 1.6A. So a quad of KT88  = 6.4A. If you run the stock tubes, you have 2x2.5A+2x0.6A = 6.2A. Up to 7A in Euforia is OK.



Thanks for this info but my impression was that the heater current of KT88 is 1.8A and not 1.6 so that makes it 7.2 for the quad which exceeds the 7A limit. But maybe my info is wrong.


----------



## OctavianH

mayurs said:


> Thanks for this info but my impression was that the heater current of KT88 is 1.8A and not 1.6 so that makes it 7.2 for the quad which exceeds the 7A limit. But maybe my info is wrong.



Here I see 1.6.
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/086/k/KT88.pdf


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Here I see 1.6.
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/086/k/KT88.pdf


If you want to go a _little_ above specs - say 7.2A instead of 7A, it seems safe to me if you use a fan to cool the amp.


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the Feliks Audio Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition is now posted. Mike also discusses it in comparison to Little Dot's tube flagship, the H1.

https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


----------



## Arcayne

marcusd said:


> Our review of the Feliks Audio Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition is now posted. Mike also discusses it in comparison to Little Dot's tube flagship, the H1.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


Yet another excellent review! But if I may, I would like to ask, how exactly are the Euforia Mk2 and AE different? The listed specs seem to be identical, and the sound evaluation feels very much familiar with how I hear the Euforia Mk2. I'm just curious, what did they change about the internal architecture that (may have) resulted in this sonic improvement?


----------



## marcusd

Arcayne said:


> Yet another excellent review! But if I may, I would like to ask, how exactly are the Euforia Mk2 and AE different? The listed specs seem to be identical, and the sound evaluation feels very much familiar with how I hear the Euforia Mk2. I'm just curious, what did they change about the internal architecture that (may have) resulted in this sonic improvement?



Good question as we have not yet received the MK2 to make out any perceived differences. When Mike gets one, and I hope he does, I will ask him to set that case out.


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 18, 2020)

Arcayne said:


> Yet another excellent review! But if I may, I would like to ask, how exactly are the Euforia Mk2 and AE different? The listed specs seem to be identical, and the sound evaluation feels very much familiar with how I hear the Euforia Mk2. I'm just curious, what did they change about the internal architecture that (may have) resulted in this sonic improvement?



From the Headfonia review here you can find some details:




> The new Anniversary Edition basically is an upgraded version of the original. New this time:
> 
> Neotech UP-OCC Single crystal signal wiring – extremely pure monocrystalic copper wire, teflon coated – able to transmit signal faster, and with less distortion than OFC or silver wires, comparing to pure silver wires (as used in “regular” Euforia) it makes the top-end of the spectrum sound richer yet less fatiguing
> Higher grade internals including ClarityCap capacitors with CopperConnect technology- for extra smoothness and clarity
> ...


----------



## marcusd

OctavianH said:


> From the Headfonia review here you can find some details:



Ah so there is no Mk2 but the difference between it and the original right? I got worried there for a second


----------



## OctavianH

marcusd said:


> Ah so there is no Mk2 but the difference between it and the original right? I got worried there for a second



From what I know there is the Original Euforia, appeared sometimes during 2017. The 2018 models, which are also called MK2, which have the following improvements:






The review of Headfonia mentiones some upgrades, which are the difference between *Euforia MK2 and Euforia AE*. 
The picture above is from the product page here:
http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php


----------



## Arcayne

OctavianH said:


> From what I know there is the Original Euforia, appeared sometimes during 2017. The 2018 models, which are also called MK2, which have the following improvements:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The currently sold Euforia is the 2019 model, which is also the one I own myself. I guess you wouldn't also happen to know what happened between the 2018 vs 2019 models?


----------



## OctavianH

Arcayne said:


> The currently sold Euforia is the 2019 model, which is also the one I own myself. I guess you wouldn't also happen to know what happened between the 2018 vs 2019 models?



You want too much, the whole history. I think that minor changes.  This is like Greys Anatomy, 20 seasons.


----------



## Arcayne

OctavianH said:


> You want too much, the whole history. I think that minor changes.  This is like Greys Anatomy, 20 seasons.


Haha, I can't help myself.  I just notice a newer model year and wonder what it means, but you're probably right, if the changes were significant they would've probably bumped it up to Mk3 instead.


----------



## OctavianH

Arcayne said:


> Haha, I can't help myself.  I just notice a newer model year and wonder what it means, but you're probably right, if the changes were significant they would've probably bumped it up to Mk3 instead.



I would say we can safely consider Mk2 (2018 model) and 2019 as simple hw revisions with minor changes. And then consider the review of Headfonia as a compare between 2018-2019 models with AE. I think we are on the safe side if we consider like this.


----------



## LoryWiv

marcusd said:


> Our review of the Feliks Audio Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition is now posted. Mike also discusses it in comparison to Little Dot's tube flagship, the H1.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


Wow, great review that really conveys your enthusiasm especially paired with Senn. HD800. I'm also pleasantly surprised at your positive comments paired with EE Nemesis IEM. What is the output impedance of the Euforia AE that allows it to pair with low impedance IEM's despite 'the rule of eights" and such?


----------



## marcusd

LoryWiv said:


> Wow, great review that really conveys your enthusiasm especially paired with Senn. HD800. I'm also pleasantly surprised at your positive comments paired with EE Nemesis IEM. What is the output impedance of the Euforia AE that allows it to pair with low impedance IEM's despite 'the rule of eights" and such?



Probably best to post that comment below the main review as we are a staff of 6 reviewers and this is one of them but not me


----------



## pjw241142

marcusd said:


> Our review of the Feliks Audio Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition is now posted. Mike also discusses it in comparison to Little Dot's tube flagship, the H1.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


Hi Marcus - would the same synergy apply to the HD800S as well? Or HD820?


----------



## pjw241142

pjw241142 said:


> Hi Marcus - would the same synergy apply to the HD800S as well? Or HD820?


Sorry - forgot to say thanks for the review


----------



## marcusd

pjw241142 said:


> Hi Marcus - would the same synergy apply to the HD800S as well? Or HD820?



Oh sorry not my review, its one of our staff writers, best post it below the main review in the comment section so he can reply directly to you thanks


----------



## pjw241142

marcusd said:


> Our review of the Feliks Audio Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition is now posted. Mike also discusses it in comparison to Little Dot's tube flagship, the H1.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/


Thanks for the review. Would the HD800S and HD820 have similar synergy to the HD800 quoted in the review?


----------



## marcusd

pjw241142 said:


> Thanks for the review. Would the HD800S and HD820 have similar synergy to the HD800 quoted in the review?



This seems to be a duplicate comment from above?


----------



## Bonddam

Just want to throw out there after testing with low impedance headphones the amp clips at high volumes such as the Empyrean but does awsesome with VC and LCD 4. I was listening to some bass heavy tracks and there was clipping at 11:30. Even though this happen the bass was not distorting the clipping sound was produced in the higher frequencies. It's a bummer as the Empyrean sounds so good on this amp.


----------



## Ichos

Never clipped with my Empyrean even at very loud volume.
Maybe that you are hearing at ear bleeding levels?


----------



## Bonddam

Ichos said:


> Never clipped with my Empyrean even at very loud volume.
> Maybe that you are hearing at ear bleeding levels?


Dont get me wrong if I listen at good levels it is perfect. For instance on WA33 volume isn’t problem for me. I know totally different and not a fair comparison but for those that once in awhile go extreme with the volume should know it can clip. Now higher impedance cans play fine at the level of volume. As I type this I’m listening with Empyrean and it’s good.


----------



## Ichos

Let's keep in mind that it is a higher Z output amp so it will naturally pair better with high Z cans.
The good part is that it is also optimised for some lower impedance planar magnetic headphones that are immune to the high Z output.
The Empyrean is marginally supported but it plays well.
Try the following for bass test.

http://open.qobuz.com/album/xtch46ob6rkpc

I am listening at insane loud volume without clipping


----------



## omoanya

Euforia arrived today! - Sounding great out of the box from the Kann mini xlr out. Time for burn-in and see where she goes from here!


----------



## Bonddam

omoanya said:


> Euforia arrived today! - Sounding great out of the box from the Kann mini xlr out. Time for burn-in and see where she goes from here!


Ready too buy some tung sol 7236 best tube for that amp.


----------



## Ficcion2

Is it a bad idea to center your sound around your components instead of the drivers?

I admit I’m pretty new to the high end game but after hours of reading and seeing the various recommendations of any ZMF with Feliks Euforia being a particularly synergistic combo I jumped on a used Euforia for a good deal.

Our systems are very close with the Verite Open/Feliks and even the Salire. 😃 @omoanya 

I’ve been listening to it for 6hours straight today. 

The Euforia can power quite a lot of headphones and I can’t imagine wanting to upgrade (I can’t afford it past this point anyways)

There’s a sale on Isotek Polaris power conditioners and also the Wire World Aurora cables on Music Direct and I’m wondering if those would contribute anymore to the Euforia.


----------



## Bonddam

Ficcion2 said:


> Is it a bad idea to center your sound around your components instead of the drivers?
> 
> I admit I’m pretty new to the high end game but after hours of reading and seeing the various recommendations of any ZMF with Feliks Euforia being a particularly synergistic combo I jumped on a used Euforia for a good deal.
> 
> ...


If you have the gold psvane drivers stick with those and upgrade the power tubes. TS 5998 you can get them at Woo Audio it's really good tube and becoming rare.


----------



## omoanya

Well from my pro audio world I know that it is a combination of everything - the whole chain has to work together to deliver the best sound. I was never more convinced of this than when we installed an equitech power conditioner in our main listening room. 50k worth of gear sounded noticeably better when we added that one piece. I am not familiar with the Polaris though.   QUOTE="Ficcion2, post: 16005423, member: 522386"]
Is it a bad idea to center your sound around your components instead of the drivers?

I admit I’m pretty new to the high end game but after hours of reading and seeing the various recommendations of any ZMF with Feliks Euforia being a particularly synergistic combo I jumped on a used Euforia for a good deal.

Our systems are very close with the Verite Open/Feliks and even the Salire. 😃 @omoanya

I’ve been listening to it for 6hours straight today.

The Euforia can power quite a lot of headphones and I can’t imagine wanting to upgrade (I can’t afford it past this point anyways)

There’s a sale on Isotek Polaris power conditioners and also the Wire World Aurora cables on Music Direct and I’m wondering if those would contribute anymore to the Euforia.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## omoanya

Bonddam said:


> Ready too buy some tung sol 7236 best tube for that amp.


Like I said you guys have steered me right - - I’ll take it under advisement ! Thanks 🙏🏼


----------



## Ficcion2 (Nov 28, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> If you have the gold psvane drivers stick with those and upgrade the power tubes. TS 5998 you can get them at Woo Audio it's really good tube and becoming rare.



So you recommend tube upgrades rather than power conditioning? I’m using the Gold PsVanes and I’ve read the weak link are the Russian powers. I also have EL39/38 with adapters. 
The 39s distorted with the PsVanes and the 38 sounded ok but it’s been months since I’ve rolled.




omoanya said:


> Well from my pro audio world I know that it is a combination of everything - the whole chain has to work together to deliver the best sound. I was never more convinced of this than when we installed an equitech power conditioner in our main listening room. 50k worth of gear sounded noticeably better when we added that one piece. I am not familiar with the Polaris though.   QUOTE="Ficcion2, post: 16005423, member: 522386"]
> Is it a bad idea to center your sound around your components instead of the drivers?
> 
> I admit I’m pretty new to the high end game but after hours of reading and seeing the various recommendations of any ZMF with Feliks Euforia being a particularly synergistic combo I jumped on a used Euforia for a good deal.
> ...




I’ve read the most notable changes come from the $1000+ conditioners but sadly I can’t afford to drop that just yet especially without trying. 
Maybe the sub $500 aren’t as effective then again I’m sure someone will call out snake oil.

I’m still curious to try it myself.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 28, 2020)

I ran mine on a Watt box wb 600ch svce 12 and don't remember what I paid maybe $500. Don't hear a difference from my cheaper Tripp Lite surge protector conditioner that I got off parts express. If you have noise on your electrical system then buy a conditioner. Sell a kidney and get a Powerplant there's one on ebay for $3,000
The biggest difference was tubes. Bendix 6080 Tung Sol 5998 and Tung sol 7236 all direct drop in. Found the Russian tubes crunchy sounding when put against. I also purchased some cheaper tubes that sound good.


----------



## omoanya

I have to say I'm finding the crossfeed very useful - helps with older recordings. I notice the hiss from the analog transfer is also reduced. On Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers "Moanin'" 24/96 - there's a little too much separation for my liking and the crossfeed pulls it right into balance perfectly.  Definitely finding it useful on older recordings, not so much on modern productions.


----------



## Ficcion2

Bonddam said:


> I ran mine on a Watt box wb 600ch svce 12 and don't remember what I paid maybe $500. Don't hear a difference from my cheaper Tripp Lite surge protector conditioner that I got off parts express. If you have noise on your electrical system then buy a conditioner.
> The biggest difference was tubes. Bendix 6080 Tung Sol 5998 and Tung sol 7236 all direct drop in. Found the Russian tubes crunchy sounding when put against. I also purchased some cheaper tubes that sound good.



Thank you. I’ll keep my eye out on the Bendix and Tungsol. 

Apparently I live in an area where power conditioners are a waste of money/snake oil. 

I’m no where near an electrical engineer or even electrician so I have zero knowledge about this but I’m grateful to be able to have quick responses to these kinds of questions as a music lover/audio enthusiast.


----------



## omoanya

Starting to look at DACs +\- the $1K mark Any recommendations for a DAC for the Euforia / ZMF VO combo? My main source is the Kann Cube - I am pretty happy with the xlr out from Cube to the Euforia so am wondering if I go digital out from the Cube what kind of DAC would provide a significant step up from the DAC in the Cube.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 30, 2020)

omoanya said:


> Starting to look at DACs +\- the $1K mark Any recommendations for a DAC for the Euforia / ZMF VO combo? My main source is the Kann Cube - I am pretty happy with the xlr out from Cube to the Euforia so am wondering if I go digital out from the Cube what kind of DAC would provide a significant step up from the DAC in the Cube.


RME ADI-2 FS is outstanding with my VO/Euforia AE. Be sure to get the current version with the larger remote, which has the 4493 chipset, instead of the older 4490.


----------



## branislav (Nov 30, 2020)

Has anybody had a chance to compare Feliks Euforia it to DNA Stratus? Thank you.


----------



## omoanya

incredulousity said:


> RME ADI-2 FS is outstanding with my VO/Euforia AE. Be sure to get the current version with the larger remote, which has the 4493 chipset, instead of the older 4490.


Nice, thanks  👍🏼 It’s on my list - I actually have some RME pro audio gear a fireface  802, though DAC is only one of its functions, I suppose I should hook it up and have a listen .


----------



## OctavianH

You can consider also Chord Qutest. I had it before owning the VO, but I liked it a lot. Maybe the best price/performance ratio DAC I ever bought.


----------



## Eylrik

OctavianH said:


> You can consider also Chord Qutest. I had it before owning the VO, but I liked it a lot. Maybe the best price/performance ratio DAC I ever bought.



+1


----------



## JTbbb

OctavianH said:


> You can consider also Chord Qutest. I had it before owning the VO, but I liked it a lot. Maybe the best price/performance ratio DAC I ever bought.



+1


----------



## Arcayne

omoanya said:


> Starting to look at DACs +\- the $1K mark Any recommendations for a DAC for the Euforia / ZMF VO combo? My main source is the Kann Cube - I am pretty happy with the xlr out from Cube to the Euforia so am wondering if I go digital out from the Cube what kind of DAC would provide a significant step up from the DAC in the Cube.


Schiit Bifrost 2 is magical with the Euforia. Qutest is a good option too, but I've found there to be better synergy throughout with the Bifrost 2.


----------



## Ichos

omoanya said:


> Starting to look at DACs +\- the $1K mark Any recommendations for a DAC for the Euforia / ZMF VO combo? My main source is the Kann Cube - I am pretty happy with the xlr out from Cube to the Euforia so am wondering if I go digital out from the Cube what kind of DAC would provide a significant step up from the DAC in the Cube.



Get yourself a Denafrips Ares II and thank me later....


----------



## freesole

What about the Topping D90?


----------



## Bonddam

Don’t put the ares 2 on it too warm. Warm+warm= more warm. My comparison is this on products I own Holo Audio Spring 2(warm) good on my estat BHSE energizer not Euforia. Brighter sounding Chord Hugo TT2 was magic gave the sparkle on top end with keeping the warm nature of the Euforia. Using D90 would work with analytical sound + warm.


----------



## MatW

I quite like the D90 Euforia pairing.


----------



## Bonddam

Another option is 
*SMSL VMV D1 DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter)*


I had this one and liked it a lot.


----------



## Ichos

Ares is not warm.
It is analog and natural sounding.
The rest of the stuff is bright and edgy.
I also don't consider the Euforia warm at least with the common definition.


----------



## Bonddam

Ichos said:


> Ares is not warm.
> It is analog and natural sounding.
> The rest of the stuff is bright and edgy.
> I also don't consider the Euforia warm at least with the common definition.


Must have been the power tubes i used are warm like the TS 5998 and others.


----------



## Ichos

Yes in that case I agree.
I am talking stock.
I like it a lot and don't want to "color" it more.


----------



## Bonddam

Still the ares 2 seemed smoothed in the upper end in one of my previous setups. I like my high hats and bass with slight recess in midrange. Which is why I like the 1266 TC so much. With my Euforia AE setup It had awesome bass good midrange with the right amount of treble. Made magic on my Verite closed/open and Empyrean.


----------



## Sunset1982

has anyone here had the chance to compare the euforia against the cayin ha6a? I am in the decision between the two for future listening with my aryas and the empyrean


----------



## aqsw (Dec 1, 2020)

omoanya said:


> Starting to look at DACs +\- the $1K mark Any recommendations for a DAC for the Euforia / ZMF VO combo? My main source is the Kann Cube - I am pretty happy with the xlr out from Cube to the Euforia so am wondering if I go digital out from the Cube what kind of DAC would provide a significant step up from the DAC in the Cube.


The Hegel HD12 is a very good DAC that also looks extremely good with the Euforia. Same footprint so you can stack it . Great dac and you can pick up a new one for a little more than your budget or a used one at your budget.


----------



## omoanya

Ok - one of the reasons for getting the Euforia was to dip my feet in the tube waters. I tried to get through the 500+ pages of posts scouring for tube info and came out more confused than when I started lol.  It seems that earlier discoveries have been superseded by newer ones - and am trying to grasp it all but I figure I'll ask for some help - so please bear with my tube noob line of questions.  

I've already more or less settled in to what I'm looking for soundwise with VO/Euforia combo and as it seems like it will take a while to find tubes - (actually surprised I haven't seen many recommendations on where to source them besides ebay), I figure I'll start now.

I am clearly impressed with the separation and soundstage of the Euforia - I find myself reaching for the Crossfeed switch more than I thought. A lot of the older Jazz and Latin jazz and Dub recordings I listen to were recorded and mixed with heavy separation and panning and in some cases, recordings were mixed fully hard-panned (ie. some Coltrane dates with Elvin's drums all in the right channel and horn all in the left)  which Euforia/VO combo seems to emphasize a little more at times than is my taste, crossfeed corrects it for me, Feliks really dialed-in a perfect blend for that circuit IMO.   I also noticed that the crossfeed is useful to attenuate some of the top frequencies in the 12-16k range which helps if the recording has an uncontrolled/excessive top end. 

I am pretty happy with the bottom end when the recording is low end heavy and mastered properly, but often that's not the case, so the quality #1 one I'm looking for is a little more bass roundness and low-end extension - I guess a little more over the entire lower end range overall.  The mids, of course, are amazing and the high end is usually perfect as is but it tends to get a little bright for me, which sticks out to me mostly when the bottom is lacking or narrow.   So I would say I possibly am a bass head lol, but I'm looking for more fullness throughout the entire low-frequency spectrum rather than just a low-end boost if that makes any sense.   

A few hundred pages back I saw a lot of talk of an EL11/12 combo but stopped seeing it mentioned after a while. Of course, I am interested in the Chatham 6AS7G referenced by ZMF founder and I understand that the Tung-sol 5998 might give more of what I'm looking for in the low end.  Am I even close? Any suggestions for where to start or just jump ahead to a premium tube roll? Also, where do you guys source your glass? Is the wild wild east/west of Ebay really the answer? I have mixed results when I purchase anything there.
Thanks in advance! #theadventurecontinues


----------



## TooFrank

omoanya said:


> Euforia arrived today! - Sounding great out of the box from the Kann mini xlr out. Time for burn-in and see where she goes from here!


Looks really good - congrats. Question: Does it get very warm? I refrained from looking further onto this as I read it gets hot - like you burn your  (others) fingers ...


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone looking for TS 5998 or 7236? The tubes in mint condition for their age. Never Used sold my amp and Not looking to get another one. If I buy another OTL it needs to be Euforia.


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 5, 2020)

TooFrank said:


> Looks really good - congrats. Question: Does it get very warm? I refrained from looking further onto this as I read it gets hot - like you burn your  (others) fingers ...


In my very similar Feliks Elise heat generation depends on the tubes used. 6080 powers are the only ones I've found to run really hot, and using risers / socket savers to elevate them above the chassis helps, as does a small fan nearby.

I use some 6V6 family tubes with adapters as well and they run cool as a cucumber and can send really great in the right combinations.


----------



## omoanya

Thanks ! The transformer top gets warm and the tubes get hot - not so much  you would get burned from bumping them inadvertently but definitely any kind of prolonged contact with the tube would cause a burn - I would keep it away from toddlers  etc , but my children are over 10 yo and they know not to get near daddy’s gear - or else! 😀



TooFrank said:


> Looks really good - congrats. Question: Does it get very warm? I refrained from looking further onto this as I read it gets hot - like you burn your  (others) fingers ...


----------



## Bonddam

omoanya said:


> Thanks ! The transformer top gets warm and the tubes get hot - not so much  you would get burned from bumping them inadvertently but definitely any kind of prolonged contact with the tube would cause a burn - I would keep it away from toddlers  etc , but my children are over 10 yo and they know not to get near daddy’s gear - or else! 😀


Don’t worry about heat mine got hot as well and my WA33 GETS REAL HOT. My kids know not too touch it’s like lava I tell them.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, this is the second Meze Empyrean review from your You Tube channel, and both do not praise the Empyreans.  As I own them I would like to respond.  They are the best Planar match with my amp the Feliks Audio Euforia, so I wanted to give them a go. They scale up with the quality of the equipment used, and Meze their stock cable is a real problem. So I warned Meze never to send their stock cable for a review. I bought the Lavricables Grand Litz 4 core which is more fragile than the 20 core Grand but more high end they say. And I have the Ayre QB-9 Twenty Dac. Compared with my Stax L700 mk1 with the T 1-S amp the Empyreans are less sharp, less treble focused and less detail focused, but I am very happy with the overall musical experience. And I like it better than the Stax. The ZMF Verite cans match well with the Euforia too. But I am in no hurry to buy those soon. I am quite happy now. Other Empyrean owners called them euphonic, but I am not certain about this English as it is not my native language. Even though the Empyreans Mk 2 will be better, these ear speakers should be seen as a tool to listen to high end equipment, great amp, great Dac, and also great cables.

Meze Empyrean Review - Comfort King - YouTube


----------



## MatW (Dec 8, 2020)

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, this is the second Meze Empyrean review from your You Tube channel, and both do not praise the Empyreans.  As I own them I would like to respond.  They are the best Planar match with my amp the Feliks Audio Euforia, so I wanted to give them a go. They scale up with the quality of the equipment used, and Meze their stock cable is a real problem. So I warned Meze never to send their stock cable for a review. I bought the Lavricables Grand Litz 4 core which is more fragile than the 20 core Grand but more high end they say. And I have the Ayre QB-9 Twenty Dac. Compared with my Stax L700 mk1 with the T 1-S amp the Empyreans are less sharp, less treble focused and less detail focused, but I am very happy with the overall musical experience. And I like it better than the Stax. The ZMF Verite cans match well with the Euforia too. But I am in no hurry to buy those soon. I am quite happy now. Other Empyrean owners called them euphonic, but I am not certain about this English as it is not my native language. Even though the Empyreans Mk 2 will be better, these ear speakers should be seen as a tool to listen to high end equipment, great amp, great Dac, and also great cables.
> 
> Meze Empyrean Review - Comfort King - YouTube


Wrong website, I think? The Headphone show youtube channel is affiliated with headphones.com, not headfi.  Anyway, thanks for the link, always interesting to see reviews. I saw this one a few days ago, and as a former empyrean owner I think it's a good review. Super comfortable, great looks, and overall very nice to listen to. Just lacking the detail/resolution I was looking for, esp. at the low end.

On a separate note, yes, the VC pairs very well with the Euforia, in my experience!


----------



## Yoram Diamand

MatW said:


> Wrong website, I think? The Headphone show youtube channel is affiliated with headphones.com, not headfi.  Anyway, thanks for the link, always interesting to see reviews. I saw this one a few days ago, and as a former empyrean owner I think it's a good review. Super comfortable, great looks, and overall very nice to listen to. Just lacking the detail/resolution I was looking for, esp. at the low end.
> 
> On a separate note, yes, the VC pairs very well with the Euforia, in my experience!


Ah well I prefer Head-fi.org but I shared my response on the You Tube item, and my response was focused on my amp the Euforia of which this is a forum. If you think other Planars are a better match with the Euforia , why not mention them?


----------



## MatW

Yoram Diamand said:


> Ah well I prefer Head-fi.org but I shared my response on the You Tube item [...]


Ah, ok that was not clear to me.

I mostly listen to the Euforia with the VC. Occasionally with the LCD XC, which pairs quite well ime, despite the low impedance.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

MatW said:


> Ah, ok that was not clear to me.
> 
> I mostly listen to the Euforia with the VC. Occasionally with the LCD XC, which pairs quite well ime, despite the low impedance.


You like closed cans. I wondered which to buy, Verite open or closed.


----------



## MatW

Yoram Diamand said:


> You like closed cans. I wondered which to buy, Verite open or closed.


The Euforia is part of my second listening station, which is in the living room, so I use closed backs there. I use open backs in my office.

VO and VC are both great headphones. I have seen quite a few comments in the VC thread of people preferring the VC, in part because it sounds very 'open' for a closed back.


----------



## scottshields (Dec 11, 2020)

omoanya said:


> I am pretty happy with the bottom end when the recording is low end heavy and mastered properly, but often that's not the case, so the quality #1 one I'm looking for is a little more bass roundness and low-end extension - I guess a little more over the entire lower end range overall.  The mids, of course, are amazing and the high end is usually perfect as is but it tends to get a little bright for me, which sticks out to me mostly when the bottom is lacking or narrow.   So I would say I possibly am a bass head lol, but I'm looking for more fullness throughout the entire low-frequency spectrum rather than just a low-end boost if that makes any sense.
> 
> A few hundred pages back I saw a lot of talk of an EL11/12 combo but stopped seeing it mentioned after a while. Of course, I am interested in the Chatham 6AS7G referenced by ZMF founder and I understand that the Tung-sol 5998 might give more of what I'm looking for in the low end.  Am I even close? Any suggestions for where to start or just jump ahead to a premium tube roll? Also, where do you guys source your glass? Is the wild wild east/west of Ebay really the answer? I have mixed results when I purchase anything there.
> Thanks in advance! #theadventurecontinues



I'm one week into a Euforia AE where I swapped the stock power tubes for Tung Sol 5998's about 35ish hours of use ago, so still settling it a bit but seems mostly there I think. The stock tubes had about as many hours as the 5998's now have.   I'm listening with Empyrean's which are on the warm side and a Bifrost2 DAC.

The Bass definitely changed to my ears with the 5998's.  To me it was more detailed, extended lower, and hit harder than the stock tubes (which were quite good in their own right).  Outside the Bass I'd be hard pressed to articulate other changes.  One note is that I can't say there is more bass, just changed as I describe above.  I chose to purchase these from Woo for a whopping $900 including tax as I didn't' want to go the Ebay or other route with higher risk.  That's a lot of cash for the changes I've experienced.  That said given that these are so hard to find, and that I do think the benefits over the expected life of the tube are probably worth it so I'm considering a back up set.

Does anyone here know of good sources for the 6080's or 5998's that seem to be top options for power on the Euforia outside of Woo for the 5998's?


----------



## Bonddam

scottshields said:


> I'm one week into a Euforia AE where I swapped the stock power tubes for Tung Sol 5998's about 35ish hours of use ago, so still settling it a bit but seems mostly there I think. The stock tubes had about as many hours as the 5998's now have.   I'm listening with Empyrean's which are on the warm side and a Bifrost2 DAC.
> 
> The Bass definitely changed to my ears with the 5998's.  To me it was more detailed, extended lower, and hit harder than the stock tubes (which were quite good in their own right).  Outside the Bass I'd be hard pressed to articulate other changes.  One note is that I can't say there is more bass, just changed as I describe above.  I chose to purchase these from Woo for a whopping $900 including tax as I didn't' want to go the Ebay or other route with higher risk.  That's a lot of cash for the changes I've experienced.  That said given that these are so hard to find, and that I do think the benefits over the expected life of the tube are probably worth it so I'm considering a back up set.
> 
> Does anyone here know of good sources for the 6080's or 5998's that seem to be top options for power on the Euforia outside of Woo for the 5998's?


What about Tung Sol 7236. I’ve got a set of 5998 I bought off Woo. Selling my unused pair for $600. Just 5 minutes on them make sure they work. Also have 7236 which is a really good tube, has about 10 hours on them.


----------



## OctavianH

scottshields said:


> Does anyone here know of good sources for the 6080's or 5998's that seem to be top options for power on the Euforia outside of Woo for the 5998's?



I think that private collectors are the best source but I am not sure how many want to sell these. I've seen that 5998 are quite rare nowadays. But if you really want to chase a unicorn you should go for Westen Electric 421A.


----------



## branislav

Not to make any waves here, but there's some much tube rolling talk around here that one has to wonder why not make separate thread for tube rollers...and leave ones like this for general impressions of the amp, issues, comparisons, customer service and such.


----------



## mordy

With all due respect, the main allure of tube amps like the Euforia is the ability to change the sound using different tubes. The impressions of the amp depend on the stock tubes and then on all the other possibilities using different tubes. 

Comparisons are usually limited to the amp you had before or own concurrently. There are people who will describe comparisons with other amps they heard at a meet or show, but my personal opinion is that it takes time to formulate a thorough opinion and a very brief listen usually isn't enough.

I realize that it can be daunting to read about all the different possibilities, but the later posts on the thread reflect the state of the art of tube rolling for the Euforia more than the earlier ones. By reading the later posts it will give you a good idea what sounds the best, and this will save time from reading through all the material. You can start reading from the most recent posts and go backwards lol....

There have been a few issues with the amps, but not much. Most were related to hum and were solved; in the rare instances the amp needed repair the customer service has been good.


----------



## scottshields

OctavianH said:


> I think that private collectors are the best source but I am not sure how many want to sell these. I've seen that 5998 are quite rare nowadays. But if you really want to chase a unicorn you should go for Westen Electric 421A.


 I'll stick to my search for the 5998's or just be resigned to pay the premium for where they are available. I spent some time with stock tubes again yesterday and the 5998's today and the differences are immediately there. I just wish they were so much better it made the price a ne brainer but I'm not there yet as it's a lot.


----------



## mordy

scottshields said:


> I'll stick to my search for the 5998's or just be resigned to pay the premium for where they are available. I spent some time with stock tubes again yesterday and the 5998's today and the differences are immediately there. I just wish they were so much better it made the price a ne brainer but I'm not there yet as it's a lot.


In my personal experience you will be able to find a much better price than what Woo charges, but it takes patience....


----------



## OctavianH

scottshields said:


> I'll stick to my search for the 5998's or just be resigned to pay the premium for where they are available. I spent some time with stock tubes again yesterday and the 5998's today and the differences are immediately there. I just wish they were so much better it made the price a ne brainer but I'm not there yet as it's a lot.



Those prices of Woo are crazy. I remember I paid around 300 EUR for a pair of 5998 2-3 years ago. Maybe this is a better offer?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-of-...-421A-NOS-NIB-1950s-Vacuum-Tubes/224262009395
Anyway, do not pay 900 USD for a pair, that price is enormous.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Those prices of Woo are crazy. I remember I paid around 300 EUR for a pair of 5998 2-3 years ago. Maybe this is a better offer?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-of-...-421A-NOS-NIB-1950s-Vacuum-Tubes/224262009395
> Anyway, do not pay 900 USD for a pair, that price is enormous.


FYI:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Chatham-...700379?hash=item3437fe1f1b:g:7kwAAOSwOkVf1pdy


----------



## omoanya

Considering a first tube roll on stock Euforia - any advice on choosing from below options?
*Using Verite Open and looking for more bottom and smoothening out the top -I have adapters.

1. Pair of TF EL 12 Spez 
2. GL KT88/77quadcombo
3. Pair TS 5998


----------



## scottshields

omoanya said:


> Considering a first tube roll on stock Euforia - any advice on choosing from below options?
> *Using Verite Open and looking for more bottom and smoothening out the top -I have adapters.
> 
> 1. Pair of TF EL 12 Spez
> ...


The 5998's will help the bottom end if you can find them or are willing to pay Woo $1k for them.


----------



## mordy

scottshields said:


> The 5998's will help the bottom end if you can find them or are willing to pay Woo $1k for them.


Ask Connieflyer for advice- maybe a quad GU-50? Even with adapters and PS a huge saving over totally overpriced 5998 tubes.
Or get an inexpensive pair of Sylvania 6080 - sit back and enjoy and laugh all the way to the bank.
IMHO there is no correlation between very expensive tubes and good sound; it is just one of the myths pushed on the public by unscrupulous sellers.


----------



## scottshields

mordy said:


> Ask Connieflyer for advice- maybe a quad GU-50? Even with adapters and PS a huge saving over totally overpriced 5998 tubes.
> Or get an inexpensive pair of Sylvania 6080 - sit back and enjoy and laugh all the way to the bank.
> IMHO there is no correlation between very expensive tubes and good sound; it is just one of the myths pushed on the public by unscrupulous sellers.


I agree here, I splurged for the 5998's knowing the price was too high but doing it anyway.  They do make a difference but it won't justify the price for most, unless you have the extra disposable income and it's really important to you.  As I noted above, to my ears, it's not necessarily more bass just more detailed, extends a bit lower and with greater impact.


----------



## LoryWiv

omoanya said:


> Considering a first tube roll on stock Euforia - any advice on choosing from below options?
> *Using Verite Open and looking for more bottom and smoothening out the top -I have adapters.
> 
> 1. Pair of TF EL 12 Spez
> ...


RCA 6SN7 drivers lean warm, and are much more affordable than, for example, TS 5998 power tube pair. I even had good experiences with new production TS 6SN7GT drivers, nice bottom end and smooth treble although detail and separation weren't top flight.


----------



## omoanya

mordy said:


> Ask Connieflyer for advice- maybe a quad GU-50? Even with adapters and PS a huge saving over totally overpriced 5998 tubes.
> Or get an inexpensive pair of Sylvania 6080 - sit back and enjoy and laugh all the way to the bank.
> IMHO there is no correlation between very expensive tubes and good sound; it is just one of the myths pushed on the public by unscrupulous sellers.


Thanks for the reply -- Curious, what are your thoughts on the KT's?


----------



## mordy

omoanya said:


> Thanks for the reply -- Curious, what are your thoughts on the KT's?


I still have the Euforia, but by the time the KT tubes became the tube de jour I had acquired another amp and did not feel the need keep up with the latest rolls for the Euforia. From reading I see that people like them in various combinations etc, but I do not have any personal experience.


----------



## omoanya

mordy said:


> I still have the Euforia, but by the time the KT tubes became the tube de jour I had acquired another amp and did not feel the need keep up with the latest rolls for the Euforia. From reading I see that people like them in various combinations etc, but I do not have any personal experience.


Ok, Thank you.


----------



## LoryWiv

omoanya said:


> Thanks for the reply -- Curious, what are your thoughts on the KT's?


I have some well-regarded power tubes including GEC 6080, others BUT I still find I come back to the new production GL KT88 often. They are very well-balanced, technically capable while maintaining musicality /  euphony, and an excellent reference backdrop from which to evaluate sonic characteristics of various drivers. In fact I am running GL KT88 powers now with NOS Bendix 5992 / 6V6GT and enjoying the combination very much.


----------



## connieflyer

Omoanya, I have used all those combos you are inquiring about and they each had advantages.The 5998's I sold off a couple of years ago, as the price was going up, and they did not give me the range I was looking for. I found that the KT77-KT88 combo to be one of the best for all around satisfaction.  Plenty of bottom and mids and highs were very articulate.  Tried a quad of KT66 and a quad of KT88 and they were good as well but not as good as the KT77-KT88.  The Gu50 tubes are great, have used a quad of these, very good, also Gu50 up front and a pair of KT88 and Gu50 in a dual adapter for power were a very powerful combo.  Am presently reworking wiring to use six Gu50's and I am hoping that this will be the best of all.  TIme will tell. According to what you posted"
Considering a first tube roll on stock Euforia - any advice on choosing from below options?
*Using Verite Open and looking for more bottom and smoothening out the top -I have adapters. " about the best for bottom end are still the KR 6SN7 black glass and Kt88  as power tubes.This gives a very bottom-centric sound and the top end will be rolled out a bit. If you don't like the amount of bass, you can try the sylvania 6SN7 vt231 from 1947, fantastic mids and highs. Hope this helps


----------



## omoanya

connieflyer said:


> Omoanya, I have used all those combos you are inquiring about and they each had advantages.The 5998's I sold off a couple of years ago, as the price was going up, and they did not give me the range I was looking for. I found that the KT77-KT88 combo to be one of the best for all around satisfaction.  Plenty of bottom and mids and highs were very articulate.  Tried a quad of KT66 and a quad of KT88 and they were good as well but not as good as the KT77-KT88.  The Gu50 tubes are great, have used a quad of these, very good, also Gu50 up front and a pair of KT88 and Gu50 in a dual adapter for power were a very powerful combo.  Am presently reworking wiring to use six Gu50's and I am hoping that this will be the best of all.  TIme will tell. According to what you posted"
> Considering a first tube roll on stock Euforia - any advice on choosing from below options?
> *Using Verite Open and looking for more bottom and smoothening out the top -I have adapters. " about the best for bottom end are still the KR 6SN7 black glass and Kt88  as power tubes.This gives a very bottom-centric sound and the top end will be rolled out a bit. If you don't like the amount of bass, you can try the sylvania 6SN7 vt231 from 1947, fantastic mids and highs. Hope this helps


Thanks Connieflyer, Finishing up my research and this helps a lot. Your new  project sounds cool - can’t wait to read about your findings.


----------



## Ichos

Hi , since I am not familiar with the Euforia tube rolling I would like to ask?
Stock tubes seem to have some kind of bite at upper mids - presence.
What should I try in order to warm things a bit without messing with resolution.
Tubes must be let's say current production with reasonable price.
Thank you.


----------



## Ichos

From what I am reading the stock driver tubes are considered very good.
Maybe I should experiment with the power tubes?


----------



## OctavianH

For me the combo with describes the best what you are searching is PsVane CV181T2 and Tung Sol 5998. But yes, it seems lately the 5998 are quite expensive.
I have no idea what current production tubes are providing the same result since I use only NOS but I think you can try the KT88 via adapters. According to many these are the best outputs on Euforia. I prefer the KT66 on Elise but Elise is warmer sounding than Euforia.


----------



## Ichos

The Tung Sol 5998 are very very expensive.


----------



## OctavianH (Dec 25, 2020)

Many private sellers make very good offers from time to time, you just need patience. Do not pay enormous prices on ebay. I might sell my 6AS7 collection in March since I move to another amplifier and I will keep Elise as a backup. This includes 3 pairs of 5998, one of WE 421A and one of GEC 6AS7G. If I will decide to sell them I will come here and make decent offers to anyone. So be patient. Time solves everything. Happy holidays!

The 5998 and WE421A are here (one of each pair):





The GEC 6AS7G are here:


----------



## Ichos

Merry Christmas 🎄


----------



## UntilThen

Merry Christmas all. Good to see the thread is still going. How's @hypnos1 .


----------



## OctavianH

He upgraded to M Scaler and TT2 and as far as I know listen now to Empyreans on TT2.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> He upgraded to M Scaler and TT2 and as far as I know listen now to Empyreans on TT2.



That's a surprise for a tube guy but we do move on at some point in time.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> That's a surprise for a tube guy but we do move on at some point in time.


Yes, but I have to admit that TT2 integrated amplifier is the best SS one I ever listened. For a dark sounding headphone it might be the endgame. Empyrean is in that category so I understand him. In my case, even owning the TT2 and having its integrated amplifier near me, I always preferred Elise. It is a matter of taste.


----------



## UntilThen

I just view my time here as one of the highlights in my head-fi journey. Some incredible friendships were formed but we did drift apart eventually. @hypnos1, @pctazhp, @connieflyer and I were tightly bonded at the start for a while.

So yeah for me, it's not just the music or how great our gear sounded. I've made some great friends, one has passed away and that was very hard to handle when the news came to me but I'll remember our friendships.   

So whether they have solid state or tube amps don't matter to me. I just wish them all the best and am glad they are enjoying the music because that's what this is all about.


----------



## OctavianH

For me solid state or tube does not matter. I just like to listen to music and I want to be able to hear it as good as it is possible.
I am in debt to many from this thread for help and advice, so I want to thank you all, including you @UntilThen for all your posts and advices. Happy Holidays to all of you and I hope we might hear healthy and happy on the new year.


----------



## UntilThen

Thank you @OctavianH  All I know is that you're a very keen member here and you've contributed and played your part.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, I tried to help everyone as I could. But I am listening to rock music and my advices are not relevant for everyone.


----------



## connieflyer

UntilThen said:


> I just view my time here as one of the highlights in my head-fi journey. Some incredible friendships were formed but we did drift apart eventually. @hypnos1, @pctazhp, @connieflyer and I were tightly bonded at the start for a while.
> 
> So yeah for me, it's not just the music or how great our gear sounded. I've made some great friends, one has passed away and that was very hard to handle when the news came to me but I'll remember our friendships.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Well, I tried to help everyone as I could. But I am listening to rock music and my advices are not relevant for everyone.



Hahaha kind of make me laugh here. Let me tell you a story...

Mozzart went to a pub to have a drink and he met Metal Head there. They stared at each other, ready to tear at each other's throat but they continued drinking. Drink after drink they continue while staring at each other. When they have finished their 10th drinks, their animosity disappeared and they started dancing together and educating each other on their music. 

So fret no more mate. Go and educate the others with your rock music.


----------



## OctavianH (Dec 25, 2020)

Well, what to say. I was there in the crowd at that show. So what to say people, heavy metal does not make to better but it might make you happier. Long live heavy metal!


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Life is funny that way, as it ebbs and flows, and I will always consider the friendships made here to be of the best. Thanks for the ride my friend



What a ride it was Don. I think we had a ford mustang 1969 !


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> Well, what to say. I was there in the crowd at that show.



Damm I didn't know rock music can be so hot. You sure this is rock?


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> Damm I didn't know rock music can be so hot. You sure this is rock?


No, I have no idea what it is. But what do you think on this one?


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> No, I have no idea what it is. But what do you think on this one?



 I'll tell you after my 10th drink. For now, I'm reliving the past with Don, Phil and Colin.


----------



## JTbbb

Hello all,

Just a punt here. I am looking for a couple of pairs of tubes to pretty much complete my small collection. I am after the Mullard ecc32 and Brimar cv1988. If there are any owners out there that have a pair to sell, then please pm me. I am not after cheap deals and am willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks


----------



## hypnos1 (Dec 25, 2020)

Hi guys...and from someone who still feels somewhat of a traitor......A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!...

And nice to hear from our old comrade and 3rd Musketeer @UntilThen. And #2 - @connieflyer , I'm looking forward to how you find 6x GU50s (such a shame these dirt cheap Russian built-like-a-tank tubes need 12V heater and adapter! ).

UT...no-one is more surprised than myself at deserting these glass wonders, especially given the (sometimes fraught!) years of promoting the virtues of what I count as my babies lol - ie. Elise and Euforia. But I was shamelessly seduced by first the Chord TT2 and then its partner the m-scaler, and even more so by - as @OctavianH mentioned, their ability to make the Meze Empyreans shine like never before (given some nice OCC silver cable).

But even after years of tweaking every part of the system to squeeze the last drop out of my Euforia, I must admit that given reasonable backup from the peripherals, by far the biggest leap in performance has come from my recent fortune in acquiring an immaculate used example of something OH jokingly suggested a while back...ie. an Antipodes server/player (a DX, v1)! I'm still getting over the shock of how much better it is even than the Naim UnitiCore and confirms the vital importance of the source quality in our systems. So get saving folks!!! 

Anyway, fellow sound addicts, before getting carried away with my rantings as of old, I shall finish by wishing y'all continued enjoyment with your chosen gear and all the very best for a..........................*HAPPY NEW YEAR*...............Cheers!!.......CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Many private sellers make very good offers from time to time, you just need patience. Do not pay enormous prices on ebay. I might sell my 6AS7 collection in March since I move to another amplifier and I will keep Elise as a backup. This includes 3 pairs of 5998, one of WE 421A and one of GEC 6AS7G. If I will decide to sell them I will come here and make decent offers to anyone. So be patient. Time solves everything. Happy holidays!
> 
> The 5998 and WE421A are here (one of each pair):
> 
> ...


Beautiful tubes....I may start saving now! 

Merry X-mas fellow Feliks friends!


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> UT...no-one is more surprised than myself at deserting these glass wonders, especially given the (sometimes fraught!) years of promoting the virtues of what I count as my babies lol - ie. Elise and Euforia.



Ah there you are Colin. How are you old friend. That's coming from me another 'old' friend. 'Old' here is used as a term of endearment.  I hope you're keeping well. Me I'm trying to keep young, playing badminton, doing Hiit classes and playing golf. And happily working of course.

I think I was more surprised than you are, that you move on to Chord and left your 'babies' but hey that's music haha. I almost get to hear the 'Dave' because a friend from Singapore wanted me to send it to him from his Australian seller. In the process he said I could keep it for a spell and listen to it. In the end, I was busy and I could not handle another top amp as I was already swamped with 4. The truth is I didn't want to hear it because I might be tempted to keep it for good. And Dave has a special meaning for me - he's my son.

Well enough talking or I might not stop   So here's a picture of that Dave that I never get to listen and I never get to keep. 

Yeah even come with the stand !


----------



## UntilThen

Oh @hypnos1 what's that Finnish guy name? The guy who knows as much about tubes as gibosi? Just don't see him anymore. Also that funny chap who is always reminding you that you said' Mon Ami'? That guy who always have a beautiful girl for his avatar? Memories fading fast lol.

Ah of course I remember @mordy . It was the old gang in those days. Fun days and happy days. 

Merry Christmas to all. Mine was yesterday. Yous are all behind times ahaha.


----------



## OctavianH

Strong people who cannot listen to a Dave. I am not that strong. Indeed, TT2 is an incredible DAC and Dave has to be better.


----------



## hypnos1

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, this is the second Meze Empyrean review from your You Tube channel, and both do not praise the Empyreans.  As I own them I would like to respond.  They are the best Planar match with my amp the Feliks Audio Euforia, so I wanted to give them a go. They scale up with the quality of the equipment used, and Meze their stock cable is a real problem. So I warned Meze never to send their stock cable for a review. I bought the Lavricables Grand Litz 4 core which is more fragile than the 20 core Grand but more high end they say. And I have the Ayre QB-9 Twenty Dac. Compared with my Stax L700 mk1 with the T 1-S amp the Empyreans are less sharp, less treble focused and less detail focused, but I am very happy with the overall musical experience. And I like it better than the Stax. The ZMF Verite cans match well with the Euforia too. But I am in no hurry to buy those soon. I am quite happy now. Other Empyrean owners called them euphonic, but I am not certain about this English as it is not my native language. Even though the Empyreans Mk 2 will be better, these ear speakers should be seen as a tool to listen to high end equipment, great amp, great Dac, and also great cables.
> 
> Meze Empyrean Review - Comfort King - YouTube



Hi YD...just a quickie from me on the Empyreans as I've said more than enough over the years about Euforia and tubes lol! 

I personally can understand why some folks are less than enthralled by these cans...BUT, it's more down to the accompanying equipment than the Meze's inherent abilities/perceived faults IMHO. I agree that the original stock cable does them no justice whatsoever...they cry out for something using mono crystal wire, preferably OCC silver. My own DIY offering using Neotech UP-OCC solid silver (multi gauge) in addition to copper totally transformed their performance.

Secondly, the rest of the system needs to NOT be on the excessively warm side for them to shine, again preferably using cables known to maintain crystal clarity and detail.

Thirdly, I found that any lingering slight 'weaknesses' - no single product ever being 'perfect' of course! - were completely nullified by my recent acquisition of the Antipodes server/player I mentioned previously...once again highlighting the all-important need for _synergy_ throughout _all_ the elements in one's system...(easier said than achieved unfortunately). I am very fortunate indeed that I myself have _finally_ reached a stage where I honestly don't feel any aspect of delivery whatsoever is lacking in any respect and can now actually sit back and _enjoy_ my listening rather than the past years of endless _critical analysing/assessing/searching for musical nirvana!!_ And the Empyreans are the last piece in the jigsaw......CJ


----------



## Bonddam

I just ordered the Euforia to put back in my collection. Should have kept the AE but I thought I was moving on but came to realize that I need to have OTL that brings my ZMF VC to next level.


----------



## UntilThen

Bonddam said:


> I just ordered the Euforia to put back in my collection. Should have kept the AE but I thought I was moving on but came to realize that I need to have OTL that brings my ZMF VC to next level.



This is a Euforia thread and I agree with you, having owned a Euforia before. Sometimes I wish I could keep all my amps but I'd have close to 10 by now.


----------



## leftside

OctavianH said:


> Well, what to say. I was there in the crowd at that show. So what to say people, heavy metal does not make to better but it might make you happier. Long live heavy metal!



Nothing wrong with a bit of Motorhead. First time I saw them was in 1992 with The Almighty supporting (band, not the actual Almighty...) in Newcastle/England. RIP Lemmy.


----------



## UntilThen

leftside said:


> Nothing wrong with a bit of Motorhead. First time I saw them was in 1992 with The Almighty supporting (band, not the actual Almighty...) in Newcastle/England. RIP Lemmy.



LOL Leftside.... that LCD-4 with your 300b amp or 1101 wonder will create fireworks with Motorhead. 

Merry Christmas Leftside. Good to see you online.


----------



## hypnos1

branislav said:


> Not to make any waves here, but there's some much tube rolling talk around here that one has to wonder why not make separate thread for tube rollers...and leave ones like this for general impressions of the amp, issues, comparisons, customer service and such.



Hi branislav. 
I hear where you're coming from, and @mordy gave a good reply already IMHO. In addition, such a separate thread was in fact tried for the Elise but never properly took off...as appears to have been the case for some other tube amps also. It seems most folks prefer to keep possible tube options/experiments 'in house' so to speak!  And re. comparisons, I myself always hoped to see more but logistically, that's not too easy for most folks and even 'professional' reviewers seldom give objective/comprehensive/meaningful ones in my view. And then of course there's the added problem of how differently another amp might perform in the otherwise same system, not to mention the individual's personal preferences etc. etc!! So perhaps various impressions from multiple users of a particular amp are going to be the best guide to help folks in their choices...but only ever a *guide*, with their own particular findings using different tubes being a further _guide_. And thus tying such rolling in _with _impressions of the amp itself would appear to me at least to be the logical/most useful way to go lol ...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning Gentlemen, I hope the holidays have not kept you away from the music too long. First let me clarify one thing, Mozart did like Rock and Roll, he was a closet listener, but I remember a couple of times when no one else was around he would borrow some of my CD's, his favorites were Elvis, Santana and Alan Parsons Project.  We used to discuss the attributes of the music over tea! Nice to see the old guard here at one time again. We should try to make an effort in this direction.


----------



## connieflyer

Good one H, case in point, after I received the Euforia anniversary amp, I had the first Euforia serial number 0005, set up next to each other, with stock tubes in both. Very little difference in sound.  The new amp sounded a little more open and clearer but this could be expectation bias coming.  A friend that bought the old Euforia, could not hear much difference either with the stock tubes.  But when I put the Gu50, Kt88, Gu50 combo in the anniversary amp we could hear an obvious difference between the two amps.  This, both using Senn 800, Oppo Pm1 phones, and running as preamp through main music system. Funny thing is he preferred the sound of the stock tubes better. I was suprised a little as I have known this man and his tastes for 25 years. So no matter what equipment we use, it still comes down to how we preceive the sound. Also, we did not have any alcohol !


----------



## connieflyer

Tube rolling goes way back for me, even the first tube amp that only came with one tube, got rolled.  And then the guy that came out with the amp made a dual dapter and away I went. Has been a good ride. Do miss Phil, always fun picking on him.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Good one H, case in point, after I received the Euforia anniversary amp, I had the first Euforia serial number 0005, set up next to each other, with stock tubes in both. Very little difference in sound.  The new amp sounded a little more open and clearer but this could be expectation bias coming.  A friend that bought the old Euforia, could not hear much difference either with the stock tubes.  But when I put the Gu50, Kt88, Gu50 combo in the anniversary amp we could hear an obvious difference between the two amps.  This, both using Senn 800, Oppo Pm1 phones, and running as preamp through main music system. Funny thing is he preferred the sound of the stock tubes better. I was suprised a little as I have known this man and his tastes for 25 years. So no matter what equipment we use, it still comes down to how we preceive the sound. Also, we did not have any alcohol !



Ah cf...just goes to show how impressions of _any_ hifi equipment are _*so*_ fraught with possible pitfalls when trying to come to one's own conclusions based on others' findings. And even as a guide only, such findings can be _way_ misleading lol!  The only realistic solution is, of course, to _suck it and see!!_...preferably with a demo/return option if at all possible ....CJ


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Oh @hypnos1 what's that Finnish guy name? The guy who knows as much about tubes as gibosi? Just don't see him anymore. Also that funny chap who is always reminding you that you said' Mon Ami'? That guy who always have a beautiful girl for his avatar? Memories fading fast lol.
> 
> Ah of course I remember @mordy . It was the old gang in those days. Fun days and happy days.
> 
> Merry Christmas to all. Mine was yesterday. Yous are all behind times ahaha.


Yep - I am still active here. The Finnish guy who knew so much about tubes is Oskari.
A long time ago there was a British fellow who had a tube collection of over 7,000 tubes, but he moved and we did not hear from him again.....
And what happened to the French guy who was always ahead experimenting with new stuff - Audiofanboy?


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Yep - I am still active here. The Finnish guy who knew so much about tubes is Oskari.
> A long time ago there was a British fellow who had a tube collection of over 7,000 tubes, but he moved and we did not hear from him again.....
> And what happened to the French guy who was always ahead experimenting with new stuff - Audiofanboy?



Ah yes Mordy, thanks for mentioning Oskari but who's the guy with the girl avatar?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Ah yes Mordy, thanks for mentioning Oskari but who's the guy with the girl avatar?


Could it be attmci?



https://www.head-fi.org/members/attmci.22890/


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Could it be attmci?



No it was someone else.


----------



## UntilThen

Got it. It was @Lorspeaker 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype.732875/post-10846514


----------



## connieflyer

I believe he was from Hawaii, and there were two girls, and either he or the girls traveled to Japan.  I spoke with him in the  past, nice fellow to be sure. Nice equipment, location, and friends!


----------



## connieflyer

Followed the link above to the start page, and it was very interesting to review the history, and see some of the old icons on the pages.  Memories came back and it felt good, thanks for the memory trip.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Followed the link above to the start page, and it was very interesting to review the history, and see some of the old icons on the pages.  Memories came back and it felt good, thanks for the memory trip.



My pleasure Don.  

I can't believe that goes back to 2014.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> I believe he was from Hawaii, and there were two girls, and either he or the girls traveled to Japan.  I spoke with him in the  past, nice fellow to be sure. Nice equipment, location, and friends!



I can't believe lorspeaker is from Hawaii. I love Hawaii from my last trip in 2010, staying at Sheraton Waikiki overlooking Diamond beach.

2 girls? !!! What a man.


----------



## Ficcion2

Has anyone tried an Abyss Diana on the Euforia? Any thoughts?

Been mulling whether to sell off my Verite Open and try the Diana and if that don’t work out then I’d go back to Verite closed.


----------



## maszynista1987

And what is wrong with Verite? He plans to buy Euforia do verite c ??


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Got it. It was @Lorspeaker
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...sn7-6as7g-6080-prototype.732875/post-10846514





connieflyer said:


> Followed the link above to the start page, and it was very interesting to review the history, and see some of the old icons on the pages.  Memories came back and it felt good, thanks for the memory trip.



Ah guys...Golden Days lol! And reminds me of the huge debt Feliks Audio actually owe (indirectly) to the LittleDot people...if I hadn't experimented with the 6SN7 and 6AS7G tubes in my LD MKIV SE - without blowing it up!!  - there would _be_ no Elise or Euforia! Wondering how an amp specifically configured for these tubes might perform, serendipity led me to ask F-A if they'd be interested in making such an amp...and the rest is history .

Mind you, I would now suggest making provision for the Russian GU50 somewhere in the mix - if not solely, given how well this tube performs as both driver _and_ power already in their alien configuration. With a bit more beef given to it as power especially and running somewhat closer to its true parameters I'm sure it would make for a killer HP amp...and at a crazy $3 to $4 a pop undoubtedly trounce the competition...(am almost tempted to return to tubeland, but I'm afraid these days I need the quieter life my Chord combo brings lol! )....CHEERS everyone and HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


----------



## Bonddam

Ficcion2 said:


> Has anyone tried an Abyss Diana on the Euforia? Any thoughts?
> 
> Been mulling whether to sell off my Verite Open and try the Diana and if that don’t work out then I’d go back to Verite closed.


I have the 1266 TC and it didn’t work due too the low sensitivity. The HE1000se kinda worked but had clipping at higher volume again due to low sensitivity.


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Mind you, I would now suggest making provision for the Russian GU50 somewhere in the mix - if not solely, given how well this tube performs as both driver _and_ power already in their alien configuration. With a bit more beef given to it as power especially and running somewhat closer to its true parameters I'm sure it would make for a killer HP amp...and at a crazy $3 to $4 a pop undoubtedly trounce the competition...(am almost tempted to return to tubeland, but I'm afraid these days I need the quieter life my Chord combo brings lol! )....CHEERS everyone and HAPPY LISTENING...CJ



Yes no more tubes for you CJ.   I surprised myself yesterday by picking up a Questyle CMA 12 almost new. Let's see how long this last.

Btw those Russian GU50 are killers indeed. Power pentodes capable of 50 watts.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Ah guys...Golden Days lol! And reminds me of the huge debt Feliks Audio actually owe (indirectly) to the LittleDot people...if I hadn't experimented with the 6SN7 and 6AS7G tubes in my LD MKIV SE - without blowing it up!!  - there would _be_ no Elise or Euforia! Wondering how an amp specifically configured for these tubes might perform, serendipity led me to ask F-A if they'd be interested in making such an amp...and the rest is history .
> 
> Mind you, I would now suggest making provision for the Russian GU50 somewhere in the mix - if not solely, given how well this tube performs as both driver _and_ power already in their alien configuration. With a bit more beef given to it as power especially and running somewhat closer to its true parameters I'm sure it would make for a killer HP amp...and at a crazy $3 to $4 a pop undoubtedly trounce the competition...(am almost tempted to return to tubeland, but I'm afraid these days I need the quieter life my Chord combo brings lol! )....CHEERS everyone and HAPPY LISTENING...CJ


Great to have you back sharing history and wisdom on this forum, @hypnos1. You and several others were instrumental on my journey with Euforia's sibling, Elise, and I've spent many a dollar and hour enjoying KT family tubes, 6L6, 6V6 and others to bring the versatility FA amps do so well. Interesting you should mention the root tube set 6SN7 and 6AS7G, as recently I'm back to 6080 (GEC) and 6SN7 (Sylvania VT-231) and i must say the sound is magnificent! Highly musical but not at the expense of technical competence, makes my ZMF Auteur reveal and sing. Wish the 6080's didn't run quite so hot. I have them in socket savers to raise above chassis, and I think Elise was designed to handle the heat as these are OG-listed compatible tubes. 

I've also used Elise as pre-amp to AudioEngine HD3 powered speakers either for direct speaker output or to IEM's via HD3's front panel 3.5 headphone out jack: DAC --> Elise --> AU HD3 --> 3.5 jack to Kinera Nanna IEM. Very enjoyable results.

I'd also hoped the Kinera Nanna's atypically high 60Ω impedance for IEM's might permit it to play nice with Elise directly but despite FA's statement that the amp can drive 32Ω to 600Ω the effect with Nanna directly from Elise's 6.3 jack was listenable but overall rather "meh".

So may combinations to try and enjoy. 
May 2021 bring music and joy.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Yes no more tubes for you CJ.   I surprised myself yesterday by picking up a Questyle CMA 12 almost new. Let's see how long this last.
> 
> Btw those Russian GU50 are killers indeed. Power pentodes capable of 50 watts.



Ah UT...things sure are moving fast these days with SS - watch out tubes lol!  But nothing can match the glass wonders for sheer beauty, excitement and exoticism...despite being ancient technology!! They are indeed much more like living creatures ...and wouldn't have missed my time in their company for anything. They also taught me far more about hi-fi sound than I could ever have imagined...coupled with a good dose of advice,  assistance and support from some great and knowledgable guys along the way...thanks to all!

And yes, with those GU50s strictly being _real _power houses, I never dreamt they could perform so well when hardly even ticking over in F-A's circuits!



LoryWiv said:


> Great to have you back sharing history and wisdom on this forum, @hypnos1. You and several others were instrumental on my journey with Euforia's sibling, Elise, and I've spent many a dollar and hour enjoying KT family tubes, 6L6, 6V6 and others to bring the versatility FA amps do so well. Interesting you should mention the root tube set 6SN7 and 6AS7G, as recently I'm back to 6080 (GEC) and 6SN7 (Sylvania VT-231) and i must say the sound is magnificent! Highly musical but not at the expense of technical competence, makes my ZMF Auteur reveal and sing. Wish the 6080's didn't run quite so hot. I have them in socket savers to raise above chassis, and I think Elise was designed to handle the heat as these are OG-listed compatible tubes.
> 
> I've also used Elise as pre-amp to AudioEngine HD3 powered speakers either for direct speaker output or to IEM's via HD3's front panel 3.5 headphone out jack: DAC --> Elise --> AU HD3 --> 3.5 jack to Kinera Nanna IEM. Very enjoyable results.
> 
> ...



Thanks LW...I'm so glad to have been able to share my own enthusiasm and experimental findings with a good few fellow addicts/madmen(?!!) over these past  years...a crew seldom matched by other forums/threads IMHO!  And yes, the official tube complement can still bring magnificent results, with an extensive list to choose from (the main reason I suggested this configuration in the first place, despite secret yearnings that F-A's offering(s) would be able to handle some more exotic choices - namely the C3g initially, before curiosity/foolhardiness(?!) took over _big_ time lol!!).
And yes again, IEMs do seem to present more than their fair share of compatibility problems...so am glad I'm a die-hard full-sized HP fan!!

I second the hope that 2021 may bring the chance for music to calm the fevered brow of so many, given the events of this past year...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 28, 2020)

hypnos1 said:


> And yes again, IEMs do seem to present more than their fair share of compatibility problems...so am glad I'm a die-hard full-sized HP fan!!



While it doesn't match the glory of full-sized gear like Elise / Euforia driving Auteur, right now I am listening to the Nanna with FiiO BTR5, which has a setting for adding a touch of 2nd order harmonic distortion akin to what tube amps produce. Really nice for portable listening or for when I am listening while working, as BTR5 converts any IEM to BT so I can take a phone call easily. It's a good time to love music and gear!


----------



## scottshields

For those with the Eurforia/Empyrean combo curious the volume position most people normally listen in? I’ve developed a bit of mild Tinnitus after have it the amp for a few weeks. During the first week I was between 9 and 11o’clock and have sense back that off to 8 mostly. I have a decibel meter coming tomorrow to check the levels. Has anyone else already done this with an Empy?


----------



## mordy (Dec 28, 2020)

scottshields said:


> For those with the Eurforia/Empyrean combo curious the volume position most people normally listen in? I’ve developed a bit of mild Tinnitus after have it the amp for a few weeks. During the first week I was between 9 and 11o’clock and have sense back that off to 8 mostly. I have a decibel meter coming tomorrow to check the levels. Has anyone else already done this with an Empy?


Perhaps this piece of information is helpful: The US Government provides a free sound level app that you can use with your cellphone. It is called NIOSH Sound Level Meter from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. It provides instant sound level readings and also information on what levels are safe etc.
I don't have any personal experience with the Empyrian headphones but in general you have to be careful when listening at loud levels.


----------



## scottshields

mordy said:


> Perhaps this piece of information is helpful: The US Government provides a free sound level app that you can use with your cellphone. It is called NIOSH Sound Level Meter from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. It provides instant sound level readings and also information on what levels are safe etc.
> I don't have any personal experience with the Empyrian headphones but in general you have to be careful when listening at loud levels.


Thanks for the tip!  I wasn't aware of the app.


----------



## LoryWiv

scottshields said:


> For those with the Eurforia/Empyrean combo curious the volume position most people normally listen in? I’ve developed a bit of mild Tinnitus after have it the amp for a few weeks. During the first week I was between 9 and 11o’clock and have sense back that off to 8 mostly. I have a decibel meter coming tomorrow to check the levels. Has anyone else already done this with an Empy?


Sorry to hear about the tinnitus, I've developed it too last 6 months but most of the time just a minor irritation. I have a dB meter and use Feliks Elise driving ZMF Auteur. Per my reading keeping dB 75 and under is unlikely to harm hearing or exacerbate tinnitus.


----------



## datka3

UntilThen said:


> Ah there you are Colin. How are you old friend. That's coming from me another 'old' friend. 'Old' here is used as a term of endearment.  I hope you're keeping well. Me I'm trying to keep young, playing badminton, doing Hiit classes and playing golf. And happily working of course.
> 
> I think I was more surprised than you are, that you move on to Chord and left your 'babies' but hey that's music haha. I almost get to hear the 'Dave' because a friend from Singapore wanted me to send it to him from his Australian seller. In the process he said I could keep it for a spell and listen to it. In the end, I was busy and I could not handle another top amp as I was already swamped with 4. The truth is I didn't want to hear it because I might be tempted to keep it for good. And Dave has a special meaning for me - he's my son.
> 
> ...


Are you guys saying that chord Dave would not benefit from focal euforia ?


----------



## UntilThen

datka3 said:


> Are you guys saying that chord Dave would not benefit from focal euforia ?



I'm not saying that because I have not heard Dave, let alone Dave with Feliks Euforia. I think you meant Feliks and not focal.


----------



## datka3

Yes sorry Feliks with Dave  

I’ll be getting Feliks and will try with Dave , so far everyheadphone amp I’ve tried with Dave ended up being returned,in every case I would loose magical detail Dave producing


----------



## UntilThen

datka3 said:


> Yes sorry Feliks with Dave
> 
> I’ll be getting Feliks and will try with Dave , so far everyheadphone amp I’ve tried with Dave ended up being returned,in every case I would loose magical detail Dave producing



I'm afraid if you love the magical details of Dave, you might return Euforia ... if you can return that is. 

Unless you want to add some liquid tube tone to Dave....which some may like.


----------



## OctavianH (Dec 31, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Sorry to hear about the tinnitus, I've developed it too last 6 months but most of the time just a minor irritation. I have a dB meter and use Feliks Elise driving ZMF Auteur. Per my reading keeping dB 75 and under is unlikely to harm hearing or exacerbate tinnitus.



I always have my Elise at around 9 o'clock when using KT66/7581A and 8 o'clock when using 5998/some 6SN7. More than that is too much for me for my long listening sessions. But I never measured anything. I think I'll have to do this.

Later edit: I've just measured with an android app called Smart Tools, it jumps around 75-78dB. So close to what others mentioned.


----------



## UntilThen

Happy New Year everyone. Here's to more of Head-Fi and good music for 2021. Cheers.


----------



## Bonddam

Got my Euforia in for new year.


----------



## Ichos

Happy new year!


----------



## UntilThen

The Headtrip II caught my eyes.


----------



## incredulousity

I think it caught everyone’s eyes. Way to make Euforia look small!


----------



## UntilThen (Dec 31, 2020)

At least he put Euforia on top which is where I put mine. I feel like buying another Euforia again because it's so compact in size besides sounding good and like him, I like running it with recommended tubes because it looks and sound great !

I haven't taken HD800 out of the box when I took this photo.


----------



## Ichos

2021 first minutes with the Euforia...


----------



## UntilThen

Dang he's got a Flux and it's a dac. Do you have the Flux Lab FA-10 ?   Who's going to show Euforia with a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-1 next ?


----------



## Ichos

It is a loaner unit for review.
FCN-10
The amp inside is exactly the same as the FA-10.
Sounds great.
Gets hot , really 🔥🔥🔥


----------



## UntilThen

Oh.... how exciting, not the hot part.  Let me know when your review is out and I hope you'll test it with Susvara.


----------



## Bonddam

HeadTrip is a great amp but low impedance and high sensitivity has hum. The Euforia is dead silent.


----------



## datka3

Found this on YouTube , do you guys think it’s something to conceder ? Or is it pure experimentation ? I think he is showing how to use GU50 tube not sure , if you can comment on work done below and it’s benefits that would we awesome  , thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

datka3 said:


> Found this on YouTube , do you guys think it’s something to conceder ? Or is it pure experimentation ? I think he is showing how to use GU50 tube not sure , if you can comment on work done below and it’s benefits that would we awesome  , thanks




 
That is @hypnos1 on the video.  He is showing how to use that tube on the Feliks amp.  Experimental?  You betcha...

But, hypnos1's recommendations for good sounding tubes are usually 'spot on'...


----------



## JazzVinyl

When I had the Elise, the best of the best of the tube rolling for me...was the '2031' - that was an FDD20 in one driver position and the ECC31 in the other driver position, and a pair of the inexpensive Russian 6AS7G equiv's: 6H13C's as powers.   

The 2031 setup came and went and many other combos became popular.  But as I think back on things, the 2031 was max in SQ and enjoyment for me, using a pair of "regular priced cans" like SEN HD580's and/or Beyer DT-990's.

Cheers, all...


----------



## Ichos

Are there any opinions regarding the 6080wc philips power tubes?
Or the 6as7g Shuguang?


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> Are there any opinions regarding the 6080wc philips power tubes?
> Or the 6as7g Shuguang?


IMHO the Sylvania/Philips 6080 tubes are good sounding tubes that sometimes are overlooked, perhaps because they are inexpensive and easy to find.
The Chinese 6AS7G equivalents do not get good reviews in general. The one I have doesn’t sound good, but puts out a very nice tube glow.


----------



## Ichos

mordy said:


> IMHO the Sylvania/Philips 6080 tubes are good sounding tubes that sometimes are overlooked, perhaps because they are inexpensive and easy to find.
> The Chinese 6AS7G equivalents do not get good reviews in general. The one I have doesn’t sound good, but puts out a very nice tube glow.



Thank you.
I have found the Phillips at decent prices so I am going to try a pair.


----------



## LoryWiv

Ichos said:


> Thank you.
> I have found the Phillips at decent prices so I am going to try a pair.


Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## hypnos1

datka3 said:


> Found this on YouTube , do you guys think it’s something to conceder ? Or is it pure experimentation ? I think he is showing how to use GU50 tube not sure , if you can comment on work done below and it’s benefits that would we awesome  , thanks




Hi datka3.

Yes indeed, this was my (very) last tube experimentation, and amazed I was to be sure not only that it actually worked in F-A's amp(s), but that it outperformed IMHO pretty well any other tube I've ever played with in them. And to do so at just a few dollars a piece makes it all the more remarkable!

The only trouble I'm afraid is that it needs a separate 12V heater power supply and an adapter that no-one as yet has made for the market. I did approach the Chinese guys that made adapters for the previous tubes I discovered, but never had a reply alas. And so this truly is only one for the experienced DIY tube converter fanatic ...at the moment lol!

And another benefit - just to rub it in!  - is that like many of the other 'alternative' (not officially sanctioned) tubes I tried, it has the amp running _much_ cooler than with those configured for. Heat, of course, is the arch enemy of electronic circuits and although tube raising adapters/fans can help reduce its impact, not heat stressing the components in the first place has to be much more preferable IMHO! I personally believe this factor to be one that is often somewhat underrated when choosing tubes...heat causing more problems in many tube amps than is possibly realised!


----------



## hypnos1

JazzVinyl said:


> When I had the Elise, the best of the best of the tube rolling for me...was the '2031' - that was an FDD20 in one driver position and the ECC31 in the other driver position, and a pair of the inexpensive Russian 6AS7G equiv's: 6H13C's as powers.
> 
> The 2031 setup came and went and many other combos became popular.  But as I think back on things, the 2031 was max in SQ and enjoyment for me, using a pair of "regular priced cans" like SEN HD580's and/or Beyer DT-990's.
> 
> Cheers, all...



Ah JV...takes me back as well lol! Although one of the strangest ever setups I experimented with, I have to admit it did indeed have a certain magic...even if breaking some of the old 'rules' re. mixing of tubes lol!! I suppose an apt description would be a 'spectacular' sound...very dynamic indeed. But in the end, I suppose a rather more balanced/'refined' delivery became the preferred direction - both for myself and others (especially with upgraded cans). Plus, the need for that external 13V heater PS and strange adapter for the FDD20 didn't help either. Not to mention the heat generated by the impressive ECC31 (common cathode version of the famous - and expensive! ECC32)...a factor I touched on just now...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi datka3.
> 
> Yes indeed, this was my (very) last tube experimentation, and amazed I was to be sure not only that it actually worked in F-A's amp(s), but that it outperformed IMHO pretty well any other tube I've ever played with in them. And to do so at just a few dollars a piece makes it all the more remarkable!
> 
> ...


Head fier Deyan in Bulgaria makes high quality custom adapters and he could make the GU50 adapters.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> Head fier Deyan in Bulgaria makes high quality custom adapters and he could make the GU50 adapters.



Hi mordy...seems no-one has actually commissioned him to make some yet?...CHEERS!...and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...seems no-one has actually commissioned him to make some yet?...CHEERS!...and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!...CJ


He has made plenty of adapters for the Head Fi community, but I am not aware of any GU50 adapters yet.


----------



## Deyan

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy...seems no-one has actually commissioned him to make some yet?...CHEERS!...and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!...CJ



Actually there was a project about it, but no one seemed to like the prototype.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> He has made plenty of adapters for the Head Fi community, but I am not aware of any GU50 adapters yet.





Deyan said:


> Actually there was a project about it, but no one seemed to like the prototype.



Yo, guys...this does in fact go back to page 530 and before/after! All I can say is that it's a shame no-one has taken up Deyan's offer, even though this tube needs a (good!) 12V heater supply. As I mentioned way back, I personally believe this tube easily outperforms the reissue Gold Lion KT66/88 etc. and anything that went before (both as driver and power)..._at any price_ IMHO! It may not be pretty, but it does look better with the 'dustbin' lid cap removed lol!  And only costs peanuts......CJ


----------



## datka3

Should we try and see if we can order 5 or 10 sets , I would be interested in getting one ?  I actually reached out to dayen trying to figure out if we can order some


----------



## incredulousity

I’ve been thinking about tube rolling on my Euforia AE, and would be up for trying this.


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 6, 2021)

datka3 said:


> Should we try and see if we can order 5 or 10 sets , I would be interested in getting one ?  I actually reached out to dayen trying to figure out if we can order some





incredulousity said:


> I’ve been thinking about tube rolling on my Euforia AE, and would be up for trying this.



Hi guys...it would be really great if enough adventurous souls took the plunge. The like-minded couple of trailblazing comrades I was able to help join me are both impressed with this GU50...and, incredulousity,  @connieflyer also has the AE Euforia and loves it almost as much as I...if not more so, given the AE's superior performance over the standard model ...so, fingers crossed for you folks...CJ


----------



## incredulousity

I know. I’ve talked to @connieflyer about this too, and just have not yet taken the plunge.


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys...it would be really great if enough adventurous souls took the plunge. The like-minded couple of trailblazing comrades I was able to help join me are both impressed with this GU50...and, incredulously,  @connieflyer also has the AE Euforia and loves it almost as much as I...if not more so, given the AE's superior performance over the standard model ...so, fingers crossed for you folks...CJ


Certainly worth the journey. Start by getting single GU50 adapters then perhaps Deyan could make the double power adapters. Other than occasionally changing drivers I've been using my present set up since H1 helped and advised me way back.


----------



## hypnos1

datka3 said:


> Yes sorry Feliks with Dave
> 
> I’ll be getting Feliks and will try with Dave , so far everyheadphone amp I’ve tried with Dave ended up being returned,in every case I would loose magical detail Dave producing



As a ps to my last post d3, your previous experience with returned amps could just possibly be repeated...as hinted at by @UntilThen . I myself suspect there are few tubes that in the standard Euforia especially (the AE model is a different beast!) would retain Dave's exceptional detail, precision, clarity and overall balance. However, I feel that the GU50's qualities would go a good way to help maintaining them at a high level...but whether _as_ high I couldn't really say I'm afraid - much will depend on the rest of one's system. In my own particular case for example, my obsessive work in upgrading every single part of my TT2/m-scaler system - from Balanced Mains conditioning/filtering thru DIY cables throughout using UP-OCC silver wire that would cost thousands commercially, to an ENO ethernet filter,  Empyrean cans and _especially_ an Antipodes DX server/player - easily outperformed my own Euforia setup. And IMHO even pipped to the post a fellow Euforia enthusiast's Dave + m-scaler + Wave cables + Zen mk3..._in direct hp out function..._much to my surprise!! But out of his Dave-fed Euforia *AE* and HD800S the sound was glorious...(what a great time we had, to be sure lol...thanks J ).

And so, as always every system is going to respond differently...and sometimes unexpectedly so! This is both the blessing _and_ blight of this crazy (but wonderful) hobby of ours lol ...CHEERS!


----------



## UntilThen

@hypnos1  well said but that depends on where you live too. Here in Australia, the air is fresher and the power supply's better lol.

and while you're at it, can you buy this for me? I know you will. We are great friends !
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/334433-fs-sennheiser-he-1-orpheus-ii/

Ok that was said in jest. Enjoy and have a great day !


----------



## JTbbb

hypnos1 said:


> As a ps to my last post d3, your previous experience with returned amps could just possibly be repeated...as hinted at by @UntilThen . I myself suspect there are few tubes that in the standard Euforia especially (the AE model is a different beast!) would retain Dave's exceptional detail, precision, clarity and overall balance. However, I feel that the GU50's qualities would go a good way to help maintaining them at a high level...but whether _as_ high I couldn't really say I'm afraid - much will depend on the rest of one's system. In my own particular case for example, my obsessive work in upgrading every single part of my TT2/m-scaler system - from Balanced Mains conditioning/filtering thru DIY cables throughout using UP-OCC silver wire that would cost thousands commercially, to an ENO ethernet filter,  Empyrean cans and _especially_ an Antipodes DX server/player - easily outperformed my own Euforia setup. And IMHO even pipped to the post a fellow Euforia enthusiast's Dave + m-scaler + Wave cables + Zen mk3..._in direct hp out function..._much to my surprise!! But out of his Dave-fed Euforia *AE* and HD800S the sound was glorious...(what a great time we had, to be sure lol...thanks J ).
> 
> And so, as always every system is going to respond differently...and sometimes unexpectedly so! This is both the blessing _and_ blight of this crazy (but wonderful) hobby of ours lol ...CHEERS!



Thanks for that hypnos, it was indeed a glorious day and I’m looking forward to the next when this blessed virus gets beaten!
J


----------



## datka3

Would anyone be interested in GU50 adapters , sounds like we can get them 20$ a pop , he can also make power adapters for 12 volt , 
Would we need 2 adapters per amp or 4 ? Thanks


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> @hypnos1  well said but that depends on where you live too. Here in Australia, the air is fresher and the power supply's better lol.
> 
> and while you're at it, can you buy this for me? I know you will. We are great friends !
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/334433-fs-sennheiser-he-1-orpheus-ii/
> ...



Er...will pass on that purchase UT. But you know I would if I could lol!   And g'day to you too...

ps. Treated myself to that Hennessy XO brandy we joked about that lifetime ago..._and wish I hadn't!!_ It was nothing like the nectar I supped some 40 yrs ago...obviously the later blends are just not up to scratch now alas......



JTbbb said:


> Thanks for that hypnos, it was indeed a glorious day and I’m looking forward to the next when this blessed virus gets beaten!
> J



Hi J...it's as though it was just yesterday. Am really miffed this new lockdown will delay our repeat visit...fingers crossed the vaccination programme steams ahead! ...

Time for supper so it's cheers for now guys...HAPPY LISTENING!...


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 5, 2021)

datka3 said:


> Would anyone be interested in GU50 adapters , sounds like we can get them 20$ a pop , he can also make power adapters for 12 volt ,
> Would we need 2 adapters per amp or 4 ? Thanks



Just a quickie d3. As mentioned in my video, a _good_ quality 12V laptop-style charger/adapter, preferably about 10 amps handling will do fine...my 'Leicke' one from Germany did the job wonderfully (and didn't need the DC out neg wire connected to a separate ground to kill any possible hum). But an even better quality PS can only be good lol! ...(but no need to spend _too_ much IMHO!)....CJ

ps. Only the one needed for even 4x tubes


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Er...will pass on that purchase UT. But you know I would if I could lol!  And g'day to you too...
> 
> ps. Treated myself to that Hennessy XO brandy we joked about that lifetime ago..._and wish I hadn't!!_ It was nothing like the nectar I supped some 40 yrs ago...obviously the later blends are just not up to scratch now alas......



Oh yes the Hennessy XO. I'm still aging my whisky(s) but there's a fortified brandy and wine on the left which I will drink first !   

Here's to more of Head-Fi.


----------



## incredulousity (Jan 5, 2021)

datka3 said:


> Would anyone be interested in GU50 adapters , sounds like we can get them 20$ a pop , he can also make power adapters for 12 volt ,
> Would we need 2 adapters per amp or 4 ? Thanks



I would be interested in buying whatever it takes to run up to 6 GU50 or KT88 (2 driver, 2 or 4 power), possibility to run split GU50/KT88 for the power, and the 120V US plug) power supply/s necessary to make this all possible.

Apologies if this is going off topic for the thread, but if @datka3 or @Deyan prefer to reply on or off-thread, I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## connieflyer

Well just finished the last GU50 wiring, and just started with burn in so, not much to report.  Vocals are really great to start with, will leave comments as they become relevant.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 5, 2021)

Don, that's the most amazing colour I've seen of Euforia. Beautiful.  

Now if someone or Feliks Audio can produce an amp specifically built for those tubes, that would be great. With no external power supply and additional cables running.


----------



## connieflyer

Glad you like it.  Looks good with the lights off, just listening to headphones and relaxing.  Just got a new cd transport for the empty shelf.  Of course that means a lot of ripping going on.  Time to replace all my flac files with wav files.  Space is cheap now so no reason not to have a better copy of everything (again). Have a good day UT.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m having a good day Don. Still WFH at the moment. My Violectric v280 is coming any minute. Want to compare that with my Questyle CMA Twelve using my He1000se headphone. Yes I’m still very much into gear but this time a side track to solid state for a bit.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Well just finished the last GU50 wiring, and just started with burn in so, not much to report.  Vocals are really great to start with, will leave comments as they become relevant.


Beautiful photo, @connieflyer! As an aside, what are those mega-looking feet under your Euforia AE?


----------



## UntilThen

Something similar to this I think. I might get some for my gear.
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/274352425...MJkOx9fG4euThcFnd1zGIe28158Ia_ChoCTIoQAvD_BwE


----------



## Deyan

incredulousity said:


> I would be interested in buying whatever it takes to run up to 6 GU50 or KT88 (2 driver, 2 or 4 power), possibility to run split GU50/KT88 for the power, and the 120V US plug) power supply/s necessary to make this all possible.
> 
> Apologies if this is going off topic for the thread, but if @datka3 or @Deyan prefer to reply on or off-thread, I would greatly appreciate it.



Well maybe orders should be made on PM's


----------



## connieflyer

LoryWiv said:


> Beautiful photo, @connieflyer! As an aside, what are those mega-looking feet under your Euforia AE?


Those are a set of acoustical dampners that I had from my turntable days.  Spring loaded, and adjustable.  Worked really well for turntable, no matter how loud or how much base in the music, stylus never skipped. Don't know if they help or not but I do notice that since installing them, I have not been late for dinner!


----------



## hypnos1 (Jan 6, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> I would be interested in buying whatever it takes to run up to 6 GU50 or KT88 (2 driver, 2 or 4 power), possibility to run split GU50/KT88 for the power, and the 120V US plug) power supply/s necessary to make this all possible.
> 
> Apologies if this is going off topic for the thread, but if @datka3 or @Deyan prefer to reply on or off-thread, I would greatly appreciate it.



Hi incredulousity.

No, this isn't off topic because it's vitally important that any queries/doubts/unsureness are addressed to as many experienced folks here as possible. You can't be too careful when dealing with tubes - especially ones not officially endorsed and that need external heater power supply plus adapters!

Re. said heater PS, it's only a *12V* (preferably 10A) one that's needed, and will be fine even for 6x GU50s (each only needing 0.7A)...the kind such as (for the US) : https://www.amazon.com/SHNITPWR-100V-240V-Converter-Transformer-5-5x2-5mm/dp/B07PWZQ33N/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1WB8S85CT4NCV&dchild=1&keywords=12v+10a+power+supply&qid=1609942285&sprefix=12V+10,aps,232&sr=8-6 . My own was a Leicke from Germany via Amazon UK. I suggest getting the best one possible, via reviews and with full certification in description. I don't know which one @connieflyer uses...

If 2x GU50s are partnering KT88s, or whatever, the latter will be fed by the amp of course. And as you'd be needing to connect multiple GU50s, the best option would probably therefore be to simply remove the *DC* plug from its PS cable, strip the wires and use the sort of connector I showed in the video to attach all those from the tubes - asking Deyan for just wires out from the adapters of course. I recommend identifying the *negative* wire out from the DC supply so that if necessary you can connect a wire from there to Earth/ground if a hum is present.

All this may sound a little complex(?) but again, my video should give you guidance in the whole procedure, including how to remove the 'dustbin' metal lid if wished and how to align the tube properly in the adapter.

Hopefully this gives y'all a bit more idea of what's involved and _please, _post here anything not sure about...you can't be too careful lol!  I would hate for anyone to get in trouble over this project!!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Don, that's the most amazing colour I've seen of Euforia. Beautiful.
> 
> Now if someone or Feliks Audio can produce an amp specifically built for those tubes, that would be great. With no external power supply and additional cables running.



Mooted that a while back UT...but no takers it would appear lol . There are however quite a few amps out there...but _powers_ only alas!


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well just finished the last GU50 wiring, and just started with burn in so, not much to report.  Vocals are really great to start with, will leave comments as they become relevant.



Well cf mon ami, what can I say? Those leds I put in certainly give quite a light show in a 6 pack lol!!  Not to everyone's taste no doubt, but what the heck, this hobby should be about more than just achieving the best possible sound no?! ...(my own light show comes from the rather unconventional lit buttons of the TT2 and m-scaler...but not as impressive as the all-blues - eat your heart out McKintosh!! ). Glad youre trying something I never got around to...well done!...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 6, 2021)

Hi CJ, glad you like the glow. Does look nice, to my thinking. The preamp led.s could be brighter, and perhaps with the other type of socket it would have been better, but this is indeed fun.  What we need to think about, would be a downward facing led at the back of the sockets, to focus on the whole amp!  Maybe make it a swappable socket, so different color schemes could be used. Also may as well make it so colors are changed over time or in with the beat of the music! Aren't you glad you went S.S. now?  And perhaps make the led's dimmable as well! So long as you go down any road may as well, try as many different combos, just to make sure.  It is like tube rolling, stock tubes sound fine, but knowing everything is done to a price point, a little experimentation, is a good thing. It does help to have knowledgeable friends and forum members to help point you in the right direction. And I thank you for that.  I used socket savers for the preamp tubes, to protect the reconfigured pins. seems to work out fine that way. This might be my last tube rolling, of course I have said that in the past, but sooner or later, your tube collection equals the value of the amp, and then the upgrade itis starts to raise it's nasty head again.Have decreased my headphone now to the Senn 800, Oppo PM1 and a Headfi 500, which does not get much play time anymore. So to upgrade again, is going to be costly, and you have to figure in decreasing improvement for an increasing cost.  A new amp using a six pack of Gu50's, designed for it of course, might be a good option for someone to check into. Price for tubes is very low for the performance. I also tried just using a quad of the GU50's and that was good as well. For a lot of folks, making their own sockets and connecting the a transformer for the increased heater current, might be an obstacle, even with no real burn in, I am finding the biggest change with the six pack is the clarity of the performance. Thanks for all your help CJ and continued friendship is most important of course.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 6, 2021)

hypnos1 said:


> eat your heart out McKintosh!!



Wait till someone pops in with a McIntosh light show. 

Glad you're both enjoying music and head-fi so much and may it continue to do so.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hi CJ, glad you like the glow. Does look nice, to my thinking. The preamp led.s could be brighter, and perhaps with the other type of socket it would have been better, but this is indeed fun.  What we need to think about, would be a downward facing led at the back of the sockets, to focus on the whole amp!  Maybe make it a swappable socket, so different color schemes could be used. Also may as well make it so colors are changed over time or in with the beat of the music! Aren't you glad you went S.S. now?  And perhaps make the led's dimmable as well! So long as you go down any road may as well, try as many different combos, just to make sure.  It is like tube rolling, stock tubes sound fine, but knowing everything is done to a price point, a little experimentation, is a good thing. It does help to have knowledgeable friends and forum members to help point you in the right direction. And I thank you for that.  I used socket savers for the preamp tubes, to protect the reconfigured pins. seems to work out fine that way. This might be my last tube rolling, of course I have said that in the past, but sooner or later, your tube collection equals the value of the amp, and then the upgrade itis starts to raise it's nasty head again.Have decreased my headphone now to the Senn 800, Oppo PM1 and a Headfi 500, which does not get much play time anymore. So to upgrade again, is going to be costly, and you have to figure in decreasing improvement for an increasing cost.  A new amp using a six pack of Gu50's, designed for it of course, might be a good option for someone to check into. Price for tubes is very low for the performance. I also tried just using a quad of the GU50's and that was good as well. For a lot of folks, making their own sockets and connecting the a transformer for the increased heater current, might be an obstacle, even with no real burn in, I am finding the biggest change with the six pack is the clarity of the performance. Thanks for all your help CJ and continued friendship is most important of course.



And thanks to you too cf...it's been a long but wonderful journey with you and all the other great guys on both this and the Elise threads. Wouldn't have missed it for the world.

As for the myriad alternative LED options..._no way jose!!..._but just might have been tempted had I stayed with tubes lol! Especially as I doubt there could ever be another tube out there to match the GU50 at such a crazy price! But let me put the record straight once more re. this peanuts price, which is very misleading.

This tube was a Russian copy of the original German Telefunken LS50, and strictly just for military use initially. No expense was spared in its construction, quite apparent from just the anode plate itself. In fact, its cost precluded it from being available for the commercial market to any great degree. And a passing remark from a youtube video of it (seemed to be a Russian guy) sounds right on the button - ie. the factory kept producing them solely to keep workers in work, long after their military life. Hence large stock piles bought up by enterprising tube enthusiasts (with a view to profit, of course). And coupled with their unorthodox/less pretty appearance obviously didn't appeal to the Western market...more's the pity IMHO.

Now, on to a different subject...isolation feet! Or more specifically - _vibration_ _control_. I'd just like to pass on what must surely be about the best bang-for-buck tweak hi-fiers can use to hone sonic performance...*Dynamat Xtreme soundproofing/deadening mat. *Given its wonderful effect on sound quality when used in car audio, coupled with a hi-fi enthusiast's results on youtube when using it in his Cambridge Audio CXC CD transport, I thought I'd try it on first my metal and glass shelf (horror for hi-fi!) equipment stand. And the improvements were quite noticeable. So then onto all the equipment itself...protecting surfaces where necessary with masking tape first before sticking on strips of the mat (once stuck, probably will never come off lol!). I also stuck some onto my inexpensive oak cone isolation feet, probably rendering them more efficient even than very expensive custom ones IMHO. Just a little of this amazing stuff deadens the negative effects of vibrations/resonances quite considerably...effects that plague most hi-fi equipment's performance far more than is often realised.

Anyway, the end result has been a performance increase far greater than I had ever expected from such a simple and relatively inexpensive mod...and well worth giving it a go....CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Jan 6, 2021)

Still considering the Mc headphone amp  Or perhaps I will just install large blue meters on this amp!


----------



## JTbbb

Hi CJ, have got your modded Valvo E11’s back in today. Wonderful! J.


----------



## connieflyer

Those are some really nice sounding tubes.  I rotate those in every now and then.  I like to pair them with either the special EL38 or the EL39's I bought from CJ.


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> Those are some really nice sounding tubes.  I rotate those in every now and then.  I like to pair them with either the special EL38 or the EL39's I bought from CJ.



Yes I roll in the Dario EL38’s occasionally, and you know where I got those from too!
J


----------



## hypnos1

JTbbb said:


> Hi CJ, have got your modded Valvo E11’s back in today. Wonderful! J.



Hi J...yo, I rate the black glass Valvo EL11 as one of the very best driver tubes especially. And those extremely rare nuggets with woven mesh (not stamped!) plates hard to beat (at any cost). And boy, I'm glad I used the gold-coloured bases as direct replacements for them...they look sensational in that black laquer-look case of the AE amp lol . Glad you and @connieflyer like them...and anyone else who has love for the EL11!  Am only sorry I couldn't convert more for other folks rather than their having to rely on adapters ...ENJOY!...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks again CJ, still roll them in .   Do you realize it will be two years since Phil passed.  Jan 28, 2018, hard to believe it has been that long, miss him.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Thanks again CJ, still roll them in .   Do you realize it will be two years since Phil passed.  Jan 28, 2018, hard to believe it has been that long, miss him.



Yes...a sad and untimely loss indeed D. Not just a very worthy member of our threads but a wonderful friend...and guy, full stop!   I trust he's R'ingIP


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yes...a sad and untimely loss indeed D. Not just a very worthy member of our threads but a wonderful friend...and guy, full stop!   I trust he's R'ingIP



and then there were 3 left.   

We will remember Phil ! He's having better than Sennheiser HE-1 up there.


----------



## elrey

Hello all,
I am new(ish) to the forum, and I am considering upgrading to a Euforia. My rationale to break the bank is simple; I don't want to keep spending 2 hours (or more) per day reading reviews. Thus I want to t get something that will last many years. My only concern with the Euforia as a long-term investment is how easy it is to get the tubes... at a reasonable price. Accordingly, I would love to hear your impressions on how difficult it is to find tubes for the Euforia (stock or rolling).

Thanks!


----------



## UntilThen

Gday @elrey , the others will chime in but here’s my 2 cents.

Get the Euforia and stick a nice dac like Qutest in front of it and your favourite headphone and you’ll be happy for at least 3 months with stock tubes.

Beyond that, get a better pair of 6SN7 like the Ken Rad 6sn7 and a pair of Mullard 6080 and you’ve hit the home run.

Enjoy.


----------



## JTbbb

UntilThen said:


> Gday @elrey , the others will chime in but here’s my 2 cents.
> 
> Get the Euforia and stick a nice dac like Qutest in front of it and your favourite headphone and you’ll be happy for at least 3 months with stock tubes.
> 
> ...



I will second what UntilThen says.

Then stay away from this site, otherwise you are doomed!


----------



## UntilThen

JTbbb said:


> I will second what UntilThen says.
> 
> Then stay away from this site, otherwise you are doomed!



Haha I didn't exactly say that. I have always been fascinated at how Elise and Euforia can be adapted with tubes not meant for it and yet sound good. If I didn't actually hear some of them for myself, I wouldn't have believe it. That was the start of my love affair with Telefunken EL11, EL12 and EL12 spez tubes. So much so I bought a big supply because I wanted a custom tube amp specially build for them. Still haven't gotten around to it because there is always another amp to buy.

Having said that though, I'm not quite for using external power supply to power the tubes because I just didn't like spoiling the looks of Euforia. The amp is simple in shape but like Apple products, it's the simplicity that makes it classy and beautiful. I do think that Euforia looks nice. Not gigantic like some other tube amps but very elegant and petite.

Also for any new comers getting Euforia for the first time, it will be bewildering to experiment with unconventional tubes, aside from the fact that Feliks Audio won't endorsed their usage. Which manufacturer will publicly endorsed tubes that are not intended for the amp original usage. I have never spoken much against this because I didn't want to stifle the creativity that goes on here and a lot of tubes were discovered as a result and as I said, they somehow sound good on Euforia. This should only be attempted by someone who knows what they are doing and not a beginner though.

So for someone new like elrey, I just didn't want to mention KT88, GU50, EL11 tubes to him.

And this is my stash of EL tubes. They may look the same but I have twice as much as that. At least 7 pairs of NOS Telefunken and Siemens EL11 tubes.






This is how I envisage the custom amp to look and I will call it 'Berlin' because of the Telefunken tubes.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> And this is my stash of EL tubes. They may look the same but I have twice as much as that. At least 7 pairs of NOS Telefunken and Siemens EL11 tubes.



You are lucky if yours have the same shape. I have 4 pieces of Valvo EL11 and all of them have slightly small differences. And even on RFT EL11 I have the same problem.
Incredible, isn't it?


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> You are lucky if yours have the same shape. I have 4 pieces of Valvo EL11 and all of them have slightly small differences. And even on RFT EL11 I have the same problem.
> Incredible, isn't it?



Well that's because I search the face of the earth for NOS EL tubes and they need to look identical and same height. I pay good money for my NOS brand new tubes though, most came with original boxes. It's a collectors items !   For that reason I confine myself to just Telefunken and Siemens tubes. Valvo, Phillips you can find but maybe as singles and very hard to find brand new ones now.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> Well that's because I search the face of the earth for NOS EL tubes and they need to look identical and same height. I pay good money for my NOS brand new tubes though, most came with original boxes. It's a collectors items !   For that reason I confine myself to just Telefunken and Siemens tubes. Valvo, Phillips you can find but maybe as singles and very hard to find brand new ones now.



I just remembered I have also a pair of Telefunken EL11 and of course, different shape. I guess EL11 are the biggest shape shifters in tube history.


----------



## UntilThen

Talk about going over board, this is what I tried on the GOTL but unfortunately it wasn't very quiet and I knew that something wasn't right. It was discarded almost immediately. I still have all those adapters. GOTL has been sold and I've moved on.  to Studio Six then to Oblivion and now experimenting with mid range solid states before I go up the ladder.  




These came with original boxes and most of them do.


----------



## UntilThen

This is my experimentation right now as we speak. A range of not so expensive solid states and the Woo Audio WA22 partially shown. Right to left:- SMSL SP200 THX AAA 888, Questyle CMA Twelve and Violectric v280. Headphones shown are He1000se and LCD-X. 

Really love the He1000se. Lovely tone. 

Just got the SMSL SP200 last night and it was quite fascinating for a $260 amp. Really clean and neutral with almost zero noise floor. Tons of power for that little box and it's balanced. Will drive Susvara ! Alright I digress enough. This is the last picture.


----------



## elrey

UntilThen said:


> Having said that though, I'm not quite for using external power supply to power the tubes because I just didn't like spoiling the looks of Euforia. The amp is simple in shape but like Apple products, it's the simplicity that makes it classy and beautiful. I do think that Euforia looks nice. Not gigantic like some other tube amps but very elegant and petite.


Besides the great reviews.. the looks! The Elise and the Euforia just look great.



UntilThen said:


> Telefunken EL11, EL12 and EL12


Nice. I did a quick check and the EL11 is cheaper than I expected.


----------



## UntilThen

elrey said:


> Nice. I did a quick check and the EL11 is cheaper than I expected.



They are cheaper indeed but getting ones that are quiet and hum free is a jackpot.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 8, 2021)

JTbbb said:


> Hi CJ, have got your modded Valvo E11’s back in today. Wonderful! J.



This Euforia with those tubes looks splendid though. That's a classy look even though the 2 drivers are not identical.   The gloss on the AE model and the tubes just raise the beauty stakes.

@hypnos1 has changed the base and he's the only one I know who has done that and done it to perfection, albeit broke many in the process lol. His persistence paid off and the result is this. Guess he handle it to someone who can appreciate it.


----------



## elrey

UntilThen said:


> They are cheaper indeed but getting ones that are quiet and hum free is a jackpot.


Question: Is there a (reliable) online store (or eBay seller) that could care for that? I know that Upscale can, but their prices go to the roof sometimes.


----------



## datka3

update :

After 1 week of using Feliks Euforia with Chord Dave, even though this is the best amplifier I've tried so far i think running directly from Dave is still better when running Focal Stellia with Feliks some music detail is lost, not as much like other amps but still, the attack is slower too. The sound did get a bit smoother but at the cost of lost detail and speed.
So far the best sound I've had in my setup was when i used DCS Bartok's headphone amp, Bartok has a phenomenal headphone amp.
Anyone here runs Feliks with Dave?


----------



## UntilThen

elrey said:


> Question: Is there a (reliable) online store (or eBay seller) that could care for that? I know that Upscale can, but their prices go to the roof sometimes.



Nope. First of all you need a special adapter for the EL11. A EL11 to 6sn7 adapter. Adapters can introduce some noise - not saying all but it could potentially do. 

Secondly EL11, EL12 and EL12 spez predates EL34 and are no longer in production years ago. No stores carry that now and what you find are individual ebay sellers or bigger stores and they don't guarantee that their tubes are silent. Good readings yes but they can't guarantee that it's not microphonic or hum free. No store can.

However if you want EL3N, you can still buy NOS ones because http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/ still carry lots of those red skirts tubes - which I find very attractive. However they are not as energetic or clear as the EL11. Not on par with the EL11 I would say but the EL3N is still a great tube and tone. 

Here I frankenstein Elise and call it the Star Trek - Odyssey Enterprise.

29th Jan 2016 that's how long ago....  getting old


----------



## UntilThen

datka3 said:


> update :
> 
> After 1 week of using Feliks Euforia with Chord Dave, even though this is the best amplifier I've tried so far i think running directly from Dave is still better when running Focal Stellia with Feliks some music detail is lost, not as much like other amps but still, the attack is slower too. The sound did get a bit smoother but at the cost of lost detail and speed.
> So far the best sound I've had in my setup was when i used DCS Bartok's headphone amp, Bartok has a phenomenal headphone amp.
> Anyone here runs Feliks with Dave?



That is to be expected with your experience with Dave alone and with Euforia. 

DCS Bartok is a different kettle of fish. It's a $17250 dac/streamer/amp. That's British high end. If one day I might get to hear it...


----------



## JTbbb

datka3 said:


> update :
> 
> After 1 week of using Feliks Euforia with Chord Dave, even though this is the best amplifier I've tried so far i think running directly from Dave is still better when running Focal Stellia with Feliks some music detail is lost, not as much like other amps but still, the attack is slower too. The sound did get a bit smoother but at the cost of lost detail and speed.
> So far the best sound I've had in my setup was when i used DCS Bartok's headphone amp, Bartok has a phenomenal headphone amp.
> Anyone here runs Feliks with Dave?



Yes I’m running Feliks with Dave. However I have HD800S headphones and IMHO the Senns go very well with Euforia AE, and in the main this is what I head for when listening to music. But, I can go directly into Dave and still enjoy the music, and personally I don’t detect anything lost when using Euforia but it is definitely different. If I was to put a label to it, I would say the Euforia was less analytical, or is the Dave too analytical? I actually enjoy listening to both. Some folks have asked why have the Euforia at all? Well to me it’s not all about the music, it’s the pleasure of owning something beautifully crafted and in particular a tube amplifier, which has given me another fascinating avenue (some folks will call it a rabbit hole!) to go down, namely tube rolling! Whereby I can now subtly alter the sound of my amplifier, and get to own some beautiful tubes that are older than myself! Apologies if I’ve gone on a bit.


----------



## datka3

JTbbb said:


> Yes I’m running Feliks with Dave. However I have HD800S headphones and IMHO the Senns go very well with Euforia AE, and in the main this is what I head for when listening to music. But, I can go directly into Dave and still enjoy the music, and personally I don’t detect anything lost when using Euforia but it is definitely different. If I was to put a label to it, I would say the Euforia was less analytical, or is the Dave too analytical? I actually enjoy listening to both. Some folks have asked why have the Euforia at all? Well to me it’s not all about the music, it’s the pleasure of owning something beautifully crafted and in particular a tube amplifier, which has given me another fascinating avenue (some folks will call it a rabbit hole!) to go down, namely tube rolling! Whereby I can now subtly alter the sound of my amplifier, and get to own some beautiful tubes that are older than myself! Apologies if I’ve gone on a bit.


Well said , and to your point some music actually does sounds better when going with the tube amp , and added base I can now feel the low end when listening with euforia,  and ability just to simply switch between Dave and feliks is superb , I think I’m stsrting to appreciate it more than the day I got it , thank you ,

just curious if you would turn thevolume all the way up with no music playing are you hearing any hum noise ? My headphones are 35 ohm and I do hear hum noise when volume i at 100% but when listening at max 50%it’s crystal clear


----------



## Bonddam

I don't have a Dave but I am not a fan of the sound of TT2. I find it robotic not natural. The Euforia just sound real to me.


----------



## JTbbb

datka3 said:


> Well said , and to your point some music actually does sounds better when going with the tube amp , and added base I can now feel the low end when listening with euforia,  and ability just to simply switch between Dave and feliks is superb , I think I’m stsrting to appreciate it more than the day I got it , thank you ,
> 
> just curious if you would turn thevolume all the way up with no music playing are you hearing any hum noise ? My headphones are 35 ohm and I do hear hum noise when volume i at 100% but when listening at max 50%it’s crystal clear



I did try the volume up with no music when I first got the Euforia, and had no hum. But that was with 300ohm headphones. I’m curious to know how you adjust your volume? I use Dave in pre-amp mode so I can use Dave’s remote for volume adjustment. Euforia is set at the 11 O’clock position in my system.


----------



## Justin_Time

I would second the use of vibration-control feet.  

For my system, i use the Navcom Silencers, small pucks of special rubber encased in metal bands.  They work wonders on eliminating the vibrations that mar the sound, especially with tube equipment.  With two-piece amps, these inexpensive feet also help separating the power supply from the amp itself and help minimize electromagnetic interferences when the two pieces are stacked rather that being side by side as typically recommended by the manufacturers.  I use two Navcom per foot between the PSU and the GS-X Mk2 amp.   Wonderful little toys these rubber feet.  There are far more expensive devices out there (a myriad of tip toes)--this area abounds with snake-oil salesmen; it is similar to the highly lucrative area of magical interconnects and custom cables; who need better amps or better HPs when simply replacing the stock cable makes a HUGE differencefor a mere $500--but the little Navcom feet do a very good job at a reasonable price.  Highly recommended.  

BTW, my Feliks Euforia Anniversary is happily standing on four Navcom rubber feet. The amp is dead quiet.


----------



## JTbbb (Jan 13, 2021)

My brown based Mullard ecc3’s arrived today, and here they are. They are hard to find, relatively expensive but boy I’m lovin em! Edit ecc32’s!


----------



## OctavianH (Jan 14, 2021)

JTbbb said:


> My brown based Mullard ecc3’s arrived today, and here they are. They are hard to find, relatively expensive but boy I’m lovin em! Edit ecc32’s!



Can you tell us why you are loving them?

Later edit:
Euforia with some nice tubes on Ebay here


----------



## barontan2418 (Jan 14, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> Can you tell us why you are loving them?
> 
> Later edit:
> Euforia with some nice tubes on Ebay here


My go to combination on Elise
EL39 + EL11 drivers. Excellent pairing. Trying out 2 GU50's driven again by EL11's at present which is producing a well balanced sound and crystal clear vocals.😃


----------



## JTbbb

OctavianH said:


> Can you tell us why you are loving them?



I thought someone would ask me this and I’m not very good at it! What I can say is that I have several pairs in my collection of what is generally thought of as being the nicer sounding 6sn7’s, which I have paired with 5998’s, and listened to with HD800S phones. Like everyone I guess, I have a small collection of tracks that I know very well which covers deep bass, spacious airy mid-range and shimmering highs. Now, I purposely did not put the Mullard’s in as soon as they arrived. I first of all spent an hour with the Ken-Rad 6sn7gt then an hour with the Sylvania jan-chs 6sn7W, and then the Mullard’s. 
I knew before I was halfway through the first track that these tubes, to my ears, bested my other 6sn7’s. Now to put a caveat on this statement. We are not talking night and day differences. In fact I am one of those people in my recent hi-fi years that has never heard night and day differences, even though from recommendations here and elsewhere I have begged, borrowed and loaned equipment purportedly having a night and day difference against something I owned.....not to my ears, certainly subtleties, but never night and day.
Now as best as I can describe it, back to the Mullard’s. The first thing that hit me was the bass, I don’t think I have ever heard my standard Senn’s go that low before, and nicely controlled too. Now I will admit to liking my bass, so I was impressed from the get go but in every other area they equalled or marginally outshone my other drivers. So there we are, I hope this is a little better than “I’m lovin em” 😀.


----------



## OctavianH

JTbbb said:


> Now as best as I can describe it, back to the Mullard’s. The first thing that hit me was the bass, I don’t think I have ever heard my standard Senn’s go that low before, and nicely controlled too. Now I will admit to liking my bass, so I was impressed from the get go but in every other area they equalled or marginally outshone my other drivers. So there we are, I hope this is a little better than “I’m lovin em” 😀.



Thank you. I know that it is hard to describe what you hear, I have the same problem. But I was interested in ECC31 some time ago and I wanted to hear more about them. Unfortunately not many use these in our amps so I saw the oportunity and thought to ask. Thanks again!


----------



## connieflyer

The 6 SN 7 G tubes where the first I tried when I started out with the Elise. I've also tried him with the before you and found those to be pretty good also in that amplifier. I have not tried them in the anniversary edition as of yet. Still rocking with the six pack of gu 50 tubes


----------



## Lucky87 (Jan 14, 2021)

Goofy click


----------



## Lucky87 (Jan 14, 2021)

datka3 said:


> update :
> 
> After 1 week of using Feliks Euforia with Chord Dave, even though this is the best amplifier I've tried so far i think running directly from Dave is still better when running Focal Stellia with Feliks some music detail is lost, not as much like other amps but still, the attack is slower too. The sound did get a bit smoother but at the cost of lost detail and speed.
> So far the best sound I've had in my setup was when i used DCS Bartok's headphone amp, Bartok has a phenomenal headphone amp.
> Anyone here runs Feliks with Dave?




I have been for the last 6 months and so far my favorite with the Utopia’s. I also use 4 x Gold Lion GT88 in a QUAD setup comes out very organic in sound more life like but again loses speed. I am interested in 2 x Tung Sol 5998 but having a hard time finding.
‘I’ve tried the Bartok before buying the Dave and found it sounding like my recently sold Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE with a Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp $6K combo vs the $15k.
Not to mention you can buy a new Dave for half the price of Bartok. Don’t get me wrong if I had the money I would have gotten the Bartok and it was cheaper then they raised the price whic I thought it was a dealer pushy tactic but it wasn’t so I bought the Dave instead.


----------



## UntilThen

Lucky87 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been for the last 6 months and so far my favorite with the Utopia’s. I also use 4 x Gold Lion GT88 in a QUAD setup comes out very organic in sound more life like but again loses speed. I am interested in 2 x Tung Sol 5998 but having a hard time finding.
> ‘I’ve tried the Barton before buying the Dave and found it sounding like my recently sold Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE with a Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp $6K combo vs the $15k.
> Not to mention you can buy a new Dave for half the price of Bartok. Don’t get me wrong if I had the money I would have gotten the Bartok and it was cheaper then they raised the price whic I thought it was a dealer pushy tactic but it wasn’t so I bought the Dave instead.



If you wanted a brand new pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998, your best bet would be https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998 but it's a staggering US$449 but probably small change for you. 

Btw congrats on the Dave. One sold recently in my local classified for AUD $9000. Someday....


----------



## Ichos

Sylvania 6080wc just arrived.




Compared to stock power tubes they are ugly and get very hot.
But , oh boy , they sound good very good.
Out of the box and they slam harder , give better defined and detailed bass and there is a great improvement in overall timbre.
Sound is more natural and the slight edge - hardness that I was experiencing is now gone.
I think that I have discovered a hidden gem.


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> Sylvania 6080wc just arrived.
> 
> Compared to stock power tubes they are ugly and get very hot.
> But , oh boy , they sound good very good.
> ...


Glad you like them. The Sylvania 6080 is an underrated tube and inexpensive.


----------



## UntilThen

Lucky87 said:


> ‘I’ve tried the Bartok before buying the Dave and found it sounding like my recently sold Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE with a Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp $6K combo vs the $15k.



Miss this completely. I’m contemplating the Benchmark hpa4 vs Niimbus us 4 or a classy custom amp. Haven’t decided yet.


----------



## OctavianH

UntilThen said:


> If you wanted a brand new pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998, your best bet would be https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998 but it's a staggering US$449 but probably small change for you.



That's the price per piece not pair. Crazy! No one should buy from them.


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> That's the price per piece not pair. Crazy! No one should buy from them.



I know. Pair is $900. Where else can you find a NOS new matched pair of 5998? I didn't even think it existed anymore. Pretty soon they will command the price of Takatsuki 300b tubes. I bought mine from Vietnam 4 years ago for US$238 - same brand new and NOS. Gleaming pins. I doubt mine have 200 hours yet. It's so quiet on any of my amps that can use it. Now using it on the Wa22 or La Figaro 339. Going to preserve it. 

Similarly my brand new pair of GEC 6as7g curve brown base NOS, I sold it away for US$500. Wish I didn't. I can't find a better pair at that price now. It's even quieter and perfect than my 5998.


----------



## UntilThen

Yahooo my LCD-3f will be returning maybe tomorrow with new steel suspension headband and original earpads.  and just bought a HD800S to accompany my HD800.  These would have been perfect with Euforia.


----------



## OctavianH

Then it seems you should buy an Euforia. I would say you should try Euforia AE because I am really curious about a comparison from your side with other amps you already tried.


----------



## UntilThen

Why do you think I should buy Euforia a 2nd time? I've owned many other tube amps after Euforia that are much much better in my opinion. I mean Euforia is good but there are better. I don't normally say such things openly because it's subjective and it's my opinion and there's no point in me making Euforia owners feel less satisfied. They have a right to feel Euforia is the best there ever is.

You did not know I have Euforia before? Look back at the start of this thread and you'll see all my impressions. I own it for almost 2 years. Prior to that I own Elise for about a year. I was on close talking terms with Lukasz at one time. I still wish Feliks Audio all the success in the world. Every manufacturers deserve that.


----------



## UntilThen

Took me a long time to find it but this post is when I received Euforia. Quite a few of us were waiting for it at about the same time. There were a lot of fun and bunter in those days. 

2017.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-13356714


----------



## OctavianH

For those bored about their amps, they can try this one:
https://lamacek.com/TUBE-AMP-LAMP


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> For those bored about their amps, they can try this one:
> https://lamacek.com/TUBE-AMP-LAMP


Why not LEDs?


----------



## OctavianH

I think for 1600 USD LEDs are too cheap


----------



## UntilThen

OctavianH said:


> For those bored about their amps, they can try this one:
> https://lamacek.com/TUBE-AMP-LAMP



I'm far from being bored with my amps but this reminds me of the lamp I bought and photograph a lot with GOTL and Studio Six.


----------



## mordy

The old Edison light bulbs were very pretty.


----------



## hughtrue

Just pulled my trigger at FA Euforia 20th edition a few days ago, I haven't received mine yet, but I already start thinking about tube rolling for future upgrade. I would appreciate any recommendation if anyone here has experience with it. I plan to roll Utopia and Empyrean with it, and I listen to a lot of pop, pop-rock, and soundtrack if that helps. Thank you.


----------



## mordy

hughtrue said:


> Just pulled my trigger at FA Euforia 20th edition a few days ago, I haven't received mine yet, but I already start thinking about tube rolling for future upgrade. I would appreciate any recommendation if anyone here has experience with it. I plan to roll Utopia and Empyrean with it, and I listen to a lot of pop, pop-rock, and soundtrack if that helps. Thank you.


The GEC 6080 is a great power tube and a few just became available but I don't know if there any left:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...651232?hash=item46bf3549a0:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...650357?hash=item46bf354635:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl


----------



## hughtrue

mordy said:


> The GEC 6080 is a great power tube and a few just became available but I don't know if there any left:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...651232?hash=item46bf3549a0:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-GEC-6...650357?hash=item46bf354635:g:MrAAAOSwdgFgCOxl


only #1 and #3 left, I am not sure if I should get them now or waiting get a matching pair?


----------



## mordy

No need for matching as long as they are the same tube.


----------



## branislav

hughtrue said:


> Just pulled my trigger at FA Euforia 20th edition a few days ago, I haven't received mine yet, but I already start thinking about tube rolling for future upgrade. I would appreciate any recommendation if anyone here has experience with it. I plan to roll Utopia and Empyrean with it, and I listen to a lot of pop, pop-rock, and soundtrack if that helps. Thank you.



Virtually this entire thread is about tube rolling, so there you go....


----------



## mordy (Jan 22, 2021)

hughtrue said:


> only #1 and #3 left, I am not sure if I should get them now or waiting get a matching pair?


Seller just stated two tubes left, matched to within 5% but different years 1964/66.
Many sellers try to push for matching tubes as a means for charging more but it doesn't make a difference - even a 10% tolerance between tubes was considered acceptable for new production in the tube era.
In order to actually hear a difference there has to be something very major and this is quite unusual.


----------



## hughtrue

mordy said:


> Seller just stated two tubes left, matched to within 5% but different years 1964/66.
> Many sellers try to push for matching tubes as a means for charging more but it doesn't make a difference - even a 10% tolerance between tubes was considered acceptable for new production in the tube era.
> In order to actually hear a difference there has to be something very major and this is quite unusual.


Yeah, I grabbed the two, hope it worth the upgrade than the stock ones. Thank you.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jan 22, 2021)

I recently picked up 2 GEC 6080 and paid a bit more. You got a sweet deal if the tubes test as stated. They are superb sounding, only caveat is they generate quite a bit of heat as do all 6080's.


----------



## hpamdr

hughtrue said:


> I already start thinking about tube rolling for future upgrade. I would appreciate any recommendation if anyone here has experience with it. I plan to roll Utopia and Empyrean with it, and I listen to a lot of pop, pop-rock, and soundtrack if that helps. Thank you.


 What you will have to do is first enjoy with stock tube. Once you will be accomodated with the amp and the tube sound. Be aware that you will need at least 100 hours on burning. If you do not have yet any tube, don't rush aand be away from this thread.
Next, give a look to better output tube, as suggested direct replacement as GEC or Mullard 6080, ... and then be back and read what can be done ...
I your main goal is to enjoy music keep in mind that you can be happy with stock tubes !


----------



## maszynista1987

I'm joining the club


----------



## OctavianH

maszynista1987 said:


> I'm joining the club



What's that box hear Euforia?


----------



## maszynista1987

Verite Closed I have auditioned quite a few amplifiers from verite and euphoria is the most fun . I am wondering about a better dac up to $1000.


----------



## OctavianH (Jan 22, 2021)

maszynista1987 said:


> Verite Closed I have auditioned quite a few amplifiers from verite and euphoria is the most fun . I am wondering about a better dac up to $1000.



I have no idea what DAC you have but Chord Qutest is in that price range and it is quite good,  of course with a linear power supply near it. Other suggestion might be RME ADI-2 DAC FS, but I never heard it.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> I recently picked up 2 GEC 6080 and paid a bit more. You got a sweet deal if the tubes test as stated. They are superb sounding, only caveat is they generate quite a bit of heat as do all 6080's.


In terms of heat dissipation I have found that an inexpensive pair of quiet  USB powered fans are very helpful.


----------



## hughtrue

LoryWiv said:


> I recently picked up 2 GEC 6080 and paid a bit more. You got a sweet deal if the tubes test as stated. They are superb sounding, only caveat is they generate quite a bit of heat as do all 6080's.


Nice, cannot wait for it.


----------



## hpamdr

OctavianH said:


> What's that box hear Euforia?


 The box near Euforia, seems to be an SMSL M300 DAC.
This amp deserve a better dac ! Soekris 2541 is a good match but above the 1500$. For an entry/medium level DAC you can get soncoz sgd1.


----------



## Ichos

Get a Denafrips Ares ii and be done with it!


----------



## hughtrue

hpamdr said:


> What you will have to do is first enjoy with stock tube. Once you will be accomodated with the amp and the tube sound. Be aware that you will need at least 100 hours on burning. If you do not have yet any tube, don't rush aand be away from this thread.
> Next, give a look to better output tube, as suggested direct replacement as GEC or Mullard 6080, ... and then be back and read what can be done ...
> I your main goal is to enjoy music keep in mind that you can be happy with stock tubes !


Thank you for the advice, I will stick with stock tubes for a while before I start tube rolling.


----------



## Justin_Time

I am on Phase 1 of tube-rolling for the Feliks Euforia 20th Anniversary SE, using various tubes without the need of adaptors.  While I found the sound of the stock tubes quite enjoyable, I cannot resist trying various tubes (mostly 6SN7) that I have at hand.  So far, I got excellent result from the following tubes, all performing better than the stock tubes:

Driver tubes:
VT-231 RCA Grey Glass: lush midrange and very strong bass, though bass definition could be better.
VT-231 Sylvania (6SN7GT) Green Print:  outstanding soundstage.  I love the warm and very clean midrange and the tight bass--could use a little more punch and volume. 
5692 RCA Red Base:   sweet, romantic sound with outstanding details and instrument separation--I love these tubes for Jazz! Very strong bass, a bit short on definition
5692 CBS Hytron: great imaging and details leading to ample soundstage;  bass is nice and taut.  Great tubes for well-recorded classical music and space music.

Power tubes:
Tung-Sol Chatham 5998:   Wow! What an upgrade!  Improvement in just about all aspects of the sound.  I bought these tubes at $100 each.  What a good value--I heard Woo Audio is selling these tubes at $450 each.  Is that true?

I am more than satisfied with the improvement with the power tubes that I got  from the Tung-Sol Chatham 5998.  So I think I will stop Phase 1 right here.

I am still not sure I want to go through the more demanding Phase 2:  tubes requiring adaptors. Any advice?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Justin_Time said:


> I am on Phase 1 of tube-rolling for the Feliks Euforia 20th Anniversary SE, using various tubes without the need of adaptors.  While I found the sound of the stock tubes quite enjoyable, I cannot resist trying various tubes (mostly 6SN7) that I have at hand.  So far, I got excellent result from the following tubes, all performing better than the stock tubes:
> 
> Driver tubes:
> VT-231 RCA Grey Glass: lush midrange and very strong bass, though bass definition could be better.
> ...



I like it!

If I were you I would want to try a pair of Ken Rad 6SN7 drivers and a pair of Raytheons.  

Ken Rad...Deep Deep Bass and lots of it.
Raytheon...very even and polite throughout the range, but sometimes, that is just what the doctor ordered.

Enjoy, the FA amp, is a dandy!


----------



## scottshields

Justin_Time said:


> Power tubes:
> Tung-Sol Chatham 5998:   Wow! What an upgrade!  Improvement in just about all aspects of the sound.  I bought these tubes at $100 each.  What a good value--I heard Woo Audio is selling these tubes at $450 each.  Is that true?



Woo is indeed selling Tung Sol 5998's at a premium.  I have a set but I'm not sure if the "Chatham" designation is a different tube than what Woo is selling.  I'm new to tubes so I'm not even going to try and ferret out the differences.  I can say that the set I have do not have the word "Chatham" printed on the base as some images in a search show.

I had the same experience that these provided an immediately noticeable improvement, especially in the bass.


----------



## Justin_Time

I did try the Ken-rad 6SN7 tonight and I agree: lots of bass!  I still like the RCA red base better overall.

I do not have the Raytheon 6SN7. Will find a pair and give them a try. Thanks for the suggestion, jazzVinyl


----------



## svmusa

Cleaning up my shelves and selling my NOS tubes I brought a while back for this amp. I recently traded the amp for a tube speaker amp.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mat...g-7236-tubes-for-feliks-audio-euforia.953560/


----------



## jlspa182

Bonddam said:


> I use the hekse on Euphoria and after noon on the dial it clips but it sounds good. Headphones in my stable that work are Empyrean, LCD4, Verite, RAD-0, Fostex TH909, Kennerton Gjallarhorn. The rest don’t work because sensitivity is to low. I was surprised that the RAD-0 work because it’s below 32 ohms which is the claimed lowest impedance of the Euphoria.  The rest of the headphones clip the amp after 12 anything below is fine just low to very low volume. If you are buying low impedance cans make sure they have high sensitivity.


Hello, what's your opinion about pair with th909?
Thanks


----------



## scottshields

svmusa said:


> Cleaning up my shelves and selling my NOS tubes I brought a while back for this amp. I recently traded the amp for a tube speaker amp.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mat...g-7236-tubes-for-feliks-audio-euforia.953560/


Thanks @svmusa for an awesome transaction!  Now that I have a few sets of 6080 power tubes a quick question to those who have them. I immediately noticed that the tube's design with a wider base doesn't full insert into the socket of the Euforia (the AE at least which I have).  Certainly makes contact and seems to work just fine but I'm curious if anyone here uses socket savers with them or has an opinion on them with the 6080 style tubes?


----------



## LoryWiv

scottshields said:


> Thanks @svmusa for an awesome transaction!  Now that I have a few sets of 6080 power tubes a quick question to those who have them. I immediately noticed that the tube's design with a wider base doesn't full insert into the socket of the Euforia (the AE at least which I have).  Certainly makes contact and seems to work just fine but I'm curious if anyone here uses socket savers with them or has an opinion on them with the 6080 style tubes?


I use socket savers but for a different reason then fit. The 6080's run very hot and I hope that by elevating them off the chassis result will be less heat transmitted to the chassis and components. Headfi'er @Deyan made the socket savers for me and as always his work is excellent and fairly priced.


----------



## mordy

scottshields said:


> Thanks @svmusa for an awesome transaction!  Now that I have a few sets of 6080 power tubes a quick question to those who have them. I immediately noticed that the tube's design with a wider base doesn't full insert into the socket of the Euforia (the AE at least which I have).  Certainly makes contact and seems to work just fine but I'm curious if anyone here uses socket savers with them or has an opinion on them with the 6080 style tubes?


IMHO opinion socket savers are a good idea for two reasons: As the name implies, it saves wear and tear on the chassis sockets, and perhaps more importantly, the socket saver works as an insulator and lowers the temperature of the amp. Heat is the biggest enemy of electronics and tubes like the 6080 do run very hot.
I have even gone so far that in order to save wear and tear I have a little extension to my headphone cables sitting in the headphone jack. I don't have to pull the plug in and out of the amp headphone jack every time I change headphones and the extension takes the wear and tear instead. If it goes bad I just switch it for another extension cable.
There are people that claim that socket savers have an impact on the sound but personally I think that it is negligible.


----------



## George Hincapie

Can any Euforia owners tell me which DACs you have paired with this amp? I am just researching for a possible purchase and would like to understand which pair particularly well. I currently use a NOS DAC, and this would be my first tube HPA.

Thanks.


----------



## scottshields

George Hincapie said:


> Can any Euforia owners tell me which DACs you have paired with this amp? I am just researching for a possible purchase and would like to understand which pair particularly well. I currently use a NOS DAC, and this would be my first tube HPA.
> 
> Thanks.


The Bifrost2, which I have and works very well, is popular around here.


----------



## Ichos

Denafrips Pontus.


----------



## OctavianH

Chord Qutest is also popular.


----------



## Sunset1982

I am about to buy the Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition for my Empyreans. Any good advice for a good value for money tube upgrade over the stock tubes? I don‘t want to use any adapters.


----------



## JTbbb

Hello,

I have the Euforia AE and if you want to keep the budget down leave the drivers in place, they are pretty good. A good value upgrade to the power tubes would be the Tung Sol 7236.


----------



## Sunset1982

JTbbb said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have the Euforia AE and if you want to keep the budget down leave the drivers in place, they are pretty good. A good value upgrade to the power tubes would be the Tung Sol 7236.


ok, thanks. what benefits would the tung sol 7236 bring?


----------



## Justin_Time

Sunset1982 said:


> I am about to buy the Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition for my Empyreans. Any good advice for a good value for money tube upgrade over the stock tubes? I don‘t want to use any adapters.


One good approach is to listen to your amp for a while, let it break in and enjoy the sound with the stock tubes—it is quite nice—and learn what you like about that sound and what you think can be improved.  You might just love the sound with the stock tubes well enough and not want to change anything, and save a lot of money—I doubt that because you are already itching to roll the tubes before you’ve even get the amp 

Anyway, once you know the sound well enough, you will know exactly what to look for—better bass? Better sound stage? Smoother or lusher midrange?—then you can come back to this thread and you will find all kinds of recommendations already there. 

Many NOS tubes are very expensive because they are rare and hard to find, but the sound quality does not necessary reflect the price. And many tubes simply sound different.  They may be an improvement in one are and a big disappointment in another.  But once you know the sound of your amp, you will know exactly what to look for.  Cheers.


----------



## mordy

Sunset1982 said:


> I am about to buy the Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition for my Empyreans. Any good advice for a good value for money tube upgrade over the stock tubes? I don‘t want to use any adapters.


Hi S82,
One power tube that sounds very good is the Sylvania 6080. Too cheap and too easy to find it ends up being severely under rated lol.....
The truth is that there is NO relationship between cost and how good a tube sounds.
And unscrupulous sellers may charge 10 or even a hundred times more (!) for the same tube that you can buy from a house wife selling off what’s left of her grandfather’s radio repair shop.


----------



## Ichos

I can attest to this.
I bought a pair very cheap from TAD and the upgrade was great.
Excellent power tubes for a fraction of the cost compared to others.


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> I can attest to this.
> I bought a pair very cheap from TAD and the upgrade was great.
> Excellent power tubes for a fraction of the cost compared to others.


Can you tell us which tubes and what TAD is? Thanks


----------



## Ichos

mordy said:


> Can you tell us which tubes and what TAD is? Thanks


https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/6080/...ps/ecg-usa-leistungsdoppeltriode?number=S6080


----------



## scottshields

Justin_Time said:


> One good approach is to listen to your amp for a while, let it break in and enjoy the sound with the stock tubes—it is quite nice—and learn what you like about that sound and what you think can be improved.  You might just love the sound with the stock tubes well enough and not want to change anything, and save a lot of money—I doubt that because you are already itching to roll the tubes before you’ve even get the amp
> 
> Anyway, once you know the sound well enough, you will know exactly what to look for—better bass? Better sound stage? Smoother or lusher midrange?—then you can come back to this thread and you will find all kinds of recommendations already there.
> 
> Many NOS tubes are very expensive because they are rare and hard to find, but the sound quality does not necessary reflect the price. And many tubes simply sound different.  They may be an improvement in one are and a big disappointment in another.  But once you know the sound of your amp, you will know exactly what to look for.  Cheers.


This is excellent advice.  I've had a Euforia AE since Nov and just started rolling some power tubes.  As is stated here price has little to do with sound in my experience but more to do with how hard they are to find.  I got lucky and bough an entire lot of power tubes from a great seller here.  I haven't gone through them all but I would recommend keeping your expectations reasonable and not associated with price.

Bottom line is I would heed @Justin_Time advice and just enjoy the amp for a while.  Not sure if you've had your Empy's for a while but there is something about them, to my ears, that take them a bit to fully come alive.  I've read this in other reviews and find it 100% true that after the first 20-30 mins they just seem to sound better and better the longer you listen.  I've found this to be completely not amp dependent.  When listening to them with differences in your chain give them some time before too quickly judging sonic differences.

My 2 cents.


----------



## maszynista1987

Thanks for the advice, Chord is a good companion to Eufori.


----------



## Ficcion2

I’m using a Matrix Element M DAC/streamer

Can someone recommend a SS amp to me?
I love that the Euforia can drive planars but I might be getting some Abyss headphones meanwhile I wait for the next ZMF November to get a Verite closed.

My Sundara and LCD2CB sound great driven with the stock tubes.
I haven’t tube rolled really but I have some EL11, EL39 and EL38.
Not sure I dig the sound for the type of stuff I normally listen to.

Also, I found this rack on the classifieds and it fit my gear.
Is anyone using a rack for their Euforia set up?
I’d love to see them as in interested in getting a nicer one built.

Also this thread needs more pictures.


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/6080/...ps/ecg-usa-leistungsdoppeltriode?number=S6080


Thanks - in case someone wonders, the tubes mentioned in the above post are the Sylvanias I had in mind. Late in the tube era Sylvania vacuum tubes was bought by Philips and the same tubes sold under the Philips name.


----------



## Ichos

Just to clarify I bought mine branded as Philips but the tube logo reads "JAN 6080wc SYLVANIA USA"


----------



## OctavianH

Ficcion2 said:


> Can someone recommend a SS amp to me?
> I love that the Euforia can drive planars but I might be getting some Abyss headphones meanwhile I wait for the next ZMF November to get a Verite closed.



Well, I never listened to these but I read a lot and they seem to be very nice:
1) Violectric V281
2) SPL Phonitor 2
I know it is not the perfect advice, but anyway, you can take a look on these.


----------



## JTbbb

Benchmark HPA4 is another one. I listened to one a good while back, very neutral.


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 5, 2021)

SPL Phonitor X, or XE if you don’t need preamp. There is an immaculate  Phonitor X in the sale forum 3-4 pages in, on offer by a very pleasant person. Buy it before I do!

Headamp GSX Mini

I have both of these, in addition to Euforia AE. All are fantastic representatives of their amplifier types. Highly recommended.


----------



## Ficcion2 (Feb 5, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> Well, I never listened to these but I read a lot and they seem to be very nice:
> 1) Violectric V281
> 2) SPL Phonitor 2
> I know it is not the perfect advice, but anyway, you can take a look on these.



The V281 keeps coming up and the Phonitor sure looks interesting.

Will look more info up on both.
Thanks for the reply




incredulousity said:


> SPL Phonitor X, or XE if you don’t need preamp. There is an immaculate  Phonitor X in the sale forum 3-4 pages in, on offer by a very pleasant person. Buy it before I do!
> 
> Headamp GSX Mini
> 
> I have both of these, in addition to Euforia AE. All are fantastic representatives of their amplifier types. Highly recommended.



I’m really interested in the GSX mini as well.
I was kinda hoping one would show up on the classifieds sooner than later.

It’s a shame Can Jam and all those conventions are post poned for who knows how long.
I’d love to test them all out and buy my favorite on the spot.

I got lucky going with the Euforia after reading Zachs and other ZMF owners suggestions.
It’s a great, powerful tube amp.

The V281 and GSX seem to have that love as well.

I think it’d be interesting to preamp my Euforia to a SS capable of providing dynamics to low impedance planars but with tube flavor.

The Benchmark sure is a looker. It’s a THX amp tho? Still would love to try all I can @JTbbb


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 5, 2021)

Ficcion2 said:


> The V281 keeps coming up and the Phonitor sure looks interesting.
> 
> Will look more info up on both.
> Thanks for the reply
> ...



I think there is a GSX Mini in the classifieds. I believe it has the stepped attenuator, which would not be my choice, only because not enough steps IMO. 

There definitely is a Phonitor X. 

Benchmark sounds like Topping A90 that goes to 11.

What planars? Meze Empyrean is brilliant with Euforia AE, especially with a good cable and some EQ. 

Others maybe not so much.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have also joined the Feliks club.😇
I've been looking for a decent tube headphone amp for a long time.
And the Little Dot Mk6+ was in the room.
However, after I got more involved with Feliks and heard mostly good things.
I decided on the Euforia, the AE version was a bit too expensive for me.
And the Elise was a bit weak compared to the Euforia.

The Euforia is on its way and I am curious about the impression.
My setup would be Singxer Sda 2 c as Dac,headphones Fostex Tr x00 Ebony,Denon D2000 modded with Emu Rosewood cups,and the Audeze Lcd 2c.

In the meantime, are there any tubes for the Euforia that are favourites so I always look on Ebay or tube shops that might be priced appropriately for a set?

I have one more question: supposedly the Euforia has a bias circuit. theoretically, it doesn't necessarily have to be a matched pair in use, or does it?

For example, I find a 6080 Mullard on Ebay and another one in a tube shop, would this be bad or not?
I don't know yet if I will roll tubes because it also depends a bit on how my headphones will feel with the Euforia.
Even though there is no comparison on the Little Dot 1+, they reacted really well, especially with the Lcd 2c, the sun really came up.
And made me want to hear more tube headphone amplifiers, but this time for real.

It would be very nice if someone could give me some information.


----------



## AudioDuck

Ficcion2 said:


> The V281 keeps coming up and the Phonitor sure looks interesting.
> 
> Will look more info up on both.
> Thanks for the reply
> ...


Just happened by and saw this: I own a Violectric V200 (the sibling of the V280- but it doesn’t have a balanced output), and would second the comment of the Violectric and the SPL. 

I also own the SPL Auditor, which is a Phonitor without the cross-feed circuitry. Similar to the V200, it takes a balanced source INput but does not have a balanced headphone OUTput. Otherwise the circuitry is the same vs the original Phonitor.

Two comments on these two as I have extensive time with both:

The V200 (and V280) have a much warmer sound signature than the SPLs. While both brands have their roots in pro audio, these particular Violectric models have a certain warmth to them. For me, this is perfect as I needed to tame what I felt to be a slightly harsh treble and (with poor recordings) midrange on my Audeze LCD-XCs.
The Phonitor and Auditor both share a “wire with gain” sound: Powerful, detailed, clear, and true to the source. As such, they do an excellent job, as long as that is aligned to your tastes and needs, and that your headphones have a sound signature that works well for you unaltered, AND you have a high-quality source that you want to hear clearly. YMMV, but my experience seems to mirror many others’.
Shameless plug: I have a used Auditor for sale, listed in the “Amps for sale” forum. If you don’t need a balanced headphone output, don’t care about cross-feed, and the above fits with what you are looking for, I’d recommend saving money and buying an Auditor vs. a Phonitor (any model)- either mine or someone else’s.

If the SPL sound signature of accurate-to-source neutrality isn’t a good fit for you and you want a warmer SS amp, I’d recommend the Violectric V200 or V280.

Good luck with your search!


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I have also joined the Feliks club.😇
> 
> I have one more question: supposedly the Euforia has a bias circuit. theoretically, it doesn't necessarily have to be a matched pair in use, or does it?
> ...



With regards to your matched pair query, I contacted Feliks Audio ref using Mullard ecc32’s. Their reply included “as long as they are a matched pair“.


----------



## Ichos

Bias got nothing to do with matching.
Driver tubes should always be matched.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

George Hincapie said:


> Can any Euforia owners tell me which DACs you have paired with this amp? I am just researching for a possible purchase and would like to understand which pair particularly well. I currently use a NOS DAC, and this would be my first tube HPA.
> 
> Thanks.


Review | Ayre Acoustics QB-9 Twenty - Reviews - Audiophile Style


----------



## Yoram Diamand

7236 cetron, got these for my birthday, hope they improve the stock tubes. Extra travel time 60 days


----------



## pgkrish

Hello everyone, I recently joined the Euforia club. I have the original version though.
Has anyone tried using 6922 tubes with adapters on the Euforia. Is it even safe to do this?


----------



## mordy

pgkrish said:


> Hello everyone, I recently joined the Euforia club. I have the original version though.
> Has anyone tried using 6922 tubes with adapters on the Euforia. Is it even safe to do this?


I do not have these tubes but if the adapters are wired correctly there should be no problem using the 6922 tube. It is a long life version of the 6DJ8 and the heater current is reduced from 0.365A to 0.3A. In the past I used a similar tube - the 6N23P (6Н23П) without problems.


----------



## pgkrish

mordy said:


> I do not have these tubes but if the adapters are wired correctly there should be no problem using the 6922 tube. It is a long life version of the 6DJ8 and the heater current is reduced from 0.365A to 0.3A. In the past I used a similar tube - the 6N23P (6Н23П) without problems.



Thank you. I actually want to try out some of the 6N23P and reflektor tubes. How did you like them sound wise.


----------



## mordy

pgkrish said:


> Thank you. I actually want to try out some of the 6N23P and reflektor tubes. How did you like them sound wise.


The Reflektor 6N23P are good sounding tubes and people claim the best ones are from I think 1974-75. As always, synergy is very important and the sound depends a lot on what  you match them up with.


----------



## Deleeh

@JTbbb and @Ichos  thanks for your Information.
i reply again when the Original tubes are maybe not my favorite.


----------



## scottshields

JTbbb said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I thought it was time to come along and put up my first post in this Euforia thread.
> 
> ...


@JTbbb or anyone else who's rolled these tubes or have other recommendations for your favorite matches with 5998's.  I have Empy's as HP's.  I currently have a variant of the 5692's shown below.  They are good but the differences from the stock PSVanes were minimal.  I found these slightly smoother with better imaging and slight improvements to holographic characteristics of the sound stage.  I'd love to hear other impressions/experienves with these (and favorite parings with 5998's)


----------



## JTbbb

scottshields said:


> @JTbbb or anyone else who's rolled these tubes or have other recommendations for your favorite matches with 5998's.  I have Empy's as HP's.  I currently have a variant of the 5692's shown below.  They are good but the differences from the stock PSVanes were minimal.  I found these slightly smoother with better imaging and slight improvements to holographic characteristics of the sound stage.  I'd love to hear other impressions/experienves with these (and favorite parings with 5998's)



Hello Scottsheilds,

Yes those PSVanes that come with the AE are pretty good and could easily be lived with, but what’s the point of a tube amp if you don’t do a bit of rolling 😀. It’s great fun researching, you can change the sound signature to suit, bizarrely they are nice to own, and what’s wrong with a bit of retail therapy!

To answer your question I have not come across any drivers I have disliked, but some that have stood out have been the Ken-Rads, Melz 1578 and 7W’s. Currently I have the Mullard brown base ecc32’s in, and I don’t see these being swapped out anytime soon. Finally I have a pair of Valvo black glass EL11’s with mesh plates which I acquired from a friend l have made from this site, which are very good, but these have to be adapted to fit 6sn7.


----------



## QuantumKat

Thinking about taking the plunge.

Am I correct that USB/Laptop ----> RME ADI-2 FS -----> Feliks EA would work? I'm using Senn HD800S.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## incredulousity

QuantumKat said:


> Thinking about taking the plunge.
> 
> Am I correct that USB/Laptop ----> RME ADI-2 FS -----> Feliks EA would work? I'm using Senn HD800S.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


I have exactly that setup in my chain, and it is exceptional. Use a good USB cable, good interconnects, and make sure your power is not horrible. I set reference level to +7 and auto ref. Level off. +13 works well too. I like EQ with most headphones, but tend to create profiles that split the difference between AutoEQ recommended and no EQ. IMO, HD800S is a great phone for this amp.


----------



## QuantumKat

Thank you so much for your help.

For EQ, I'm currently using Sonarworks (w/ the HD800s profile). Would I still be able to use that or would I need to delve into the EQ settings on the RME?


----------



## incredulousity

QuantumKat said:


> Thank you so much for your help.
> 
> For EQ, I'm currently using Sonarworks (w/ the HD800s profile). Would I still be able to use that or would I need to delve into the EQ settings on the RME?


You are fine using your current EQ. I use Audirvana/FabflFilter Pro-Q3, as RME only has 5 point parametric EQ.


----------



## pgkrish

mordy said:


> The Reflektor 6N23P are good sounding tubes and people claim the best ones are from I think 1974-75. As always, synergy is very important and the sound depends a lot on what  you match them up with.


True it does depend on the source and headphones. I am using the dac from the Burson conductor 3x (ES9038 chip) with my Verite. I am trying to get a tighter bass and maybe a bit more of treble presence. Can anyone suggest tube or even dac pairings for this setup.


----------



## hpamdr

mordy said:


> The Reflektor 6N23P are good sounding tubes and people claim the best ones are from I think 1974-75. As always, synergy is very important and the sound depends a lot on what you match them up with.


The best one are the 6n23p-EB version almost as good as ECC188. It work great in Euforia and pairs well with 5998 and GEC 6080.


----------



## hpamdr (Feb 9, 2021)

-- duplicate --


----------



## scottshields

JTbbb said:


> Hello Scottsheilds,
> 
> Yes those PSVanes that come with the AE are pretty good and could easily be lived with, but what’s the point of a tube amp if you don’t do a bit of rolling 😀. It’s great fun researching, you can change the sound signature to suit, bizarrely they are nice to own, and what’s wrong with a bit of retail therapy!
> 
> To answer your question I have not come across any drivers I have disliked, but some that have stood out have been the Ken-Rads, Melz 1578 and 7W’s. Currently I have the Mullard brown base ecc32’s in, and I don’t see these being swapped out anytime soon. Finally I have a pair of Valvo black glass EL11’s with mesh plates which I acquired from a friend l have made from this site, which are very good, but these have to be adapted to fit 6sn7.


Curious how you found the 5692's to stack up with some of your favorites?


----------



## JM1979

I was curious is anyone can provide insight as to what the jump up from Euphoria mkII vs AE is like?

my current chain inMScaler->TT2 and I’d life to add a tube amp. I had a Feliks echo that I absolutely loved. I was thinking of adding a Euforia and would love any feedback on them.


----------



## OctavianH (Feb 13, 2021)

Guys, I found the perfect song for Euforia.



Later I realised they play Led Zeppelin, they have guitars and drums. And yes, comments to the video are top class.
I am a fan! At least until my girlfriend finds out. LOL.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have received my Euforia and the first hours behind it are still missing a few hours that were recommended in the manual are 30-50 hours.
I have reached just under half so far.

What struck me is with the Audeze Lcd 2c and original tube tuning he plays me a bit restrained. I know the little bit different from him.
On the Denon D2000 or Fostex headphones, however, he is really good.

Is there possibly a set of tubes that open the Planar headphones for more playfulness?
I currently have the 6AS7G of Rca in view but not found about their properties and generally you hardly find which even if it were 6080 tubes.

Would be great if someone has a tip / advice.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Guys, I found the perfect song for Euforia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought one or both of them were your girlfriend!


----------



## DreamMan (Feb 13, 2021)

Rather both, the questions is only, from which woman?

But it is already very beautiful to look at. And there you can only fall in love. Is that how it's meant to be???


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> I thought one or both of them were your girlfriend!



They should be!


----------



## Ichos

Are the stock Psvane somewhat forward even with the Empyrean or it's my fantasy?


----------



## scottshields (Feb 13, 2021)

Ichos said:


> Are the stock Psvane somewhat forward even with the Empyrean or it's my fantasy?


By "forward" do you mean a bit bright?  If so I found them to be yes.  I just recently swapped them for a NOS part of CBS 5692's and noticed they were smoother and a bit more relaxed than the PSVanes.  I fell like the soundstage and imagining may also be just slightly better.  The PSVanes are good however from what I can tell but I've not rolled many others yet.

Also I'm using Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.


----------



## Deleeh (Feb 13, 2021)

Ichos said:


> Are the stock Psvane somewhat forward even with the Empyrean or it's my fantasy?



To be honest, I find tube tuning more suited to dynamic drivers.

For planar listeners like my Lcd 2c, I don't get the same feeling as on my Little Dot 1+ with really good tubes or what would be possible on the Transitor. there's a glimmer of something where I think oh cool and then that's it.



Will it be better with crossfeed on planar with the series tubes?


----------



## Ichos

scottshields said:


> By "forward" do you mean a bit bright?  If so I found them to be yes.  I just recently swapped them for a NOS part of CBS 5692's and noticed they were smoother and a bit more relaxed than the PSVanes.  I fell like the soundstage and imagining may also be just slightly better.  The PSVanes are good however from what I can tell but I've not rolled many others yet.
> 
> Also I'm using Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.



Yes they sound somewhat bright for example at higher soprano notes.
I have swapped the power tubes for 6080w and things got better but now I think the drivers are causing the issue.


----------



## Ichos

Deleeh said:


> Ehrlich gesagt finde ich Röhren Abstimmung vielmehr für Dynamische treiber abgestimmt.
> Für planare Hörer wie mein Lcd 2c kommt nicht gerade Feeling auf wie auf meinem Little Dot 1+ mit echt gute Röhren oder was am Transitor möglich wäre.Es schimmert mal was durch wo ich denke oh cool und dann war es das.
> 
> Ob es mit Crossfeed besser wird auf Planare mit den Serien röhren?



I don't like crossfeed.
This is a good amp for planars.
It just needs some extra fine tuning at least for my tastes.


----------



## Deleeh

Ichos said:


> I don't like crossfeed.
> This is a good amp for planars.
> It just needs some extra fine tuning at least for my tastes.



Yes, I agree!
But I don't know which type of tubes would be optimal for planars. Then I would be happy if that would fit.
As I said, the in-house tuning for dynamic drivers is really great.
I find it really good.


----------



## scottshields

Ichos said:


> Yes they sound somewhat bright for example at higher soprano notes.
> I have swapped the power tubes for 6080w and things got better but now I think the drivers are causing the issue.



Curious what your source is?  Mine is a Bifrost2 which has a rep of being a bit warm.  I think it makes a great source for the Euforia (I have the AE).


----------



## Ichos

scottshields said:


> Curious what your source is?  Mine is a Bifrost2 which has a rep of being a bit warm.  I think it makes a great source for the Euforia (I have the AE).



Denafrips Pontus and Venus mkii , Cambridge Audio 851N and some other AKM based mid tier dacs.

I suppose that a warm sounding dac may remedy the issue because being rolled off.


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 15, 2021)

Hey everyone, did you all know that there is now a KT170?

Just kidding. I don't think that this is any better idea than the also unsuitable KT150.

More importantly, I got all the adapters for KTxx, power doublers, GU50 adapters, and power supply from Deyan. Mad props to Deyan, Fantastic communication and excellennt work! I have started rolling the KT66 drivers and KT88 powers for now, and I like what I hear so far, but the KT66 probably need a lot more burn in. I have more KT88s and also KT77s to try as well. GU50s are on order, but not sure when I'll see them. Using Empys, HD800S, Verite Open on this station.

Down the rabbit hole we go...


----------



## incredulousity

Looks like my GU50s just got to the US (Los Angeles), so I may see them this week!


----------



## OctavianH (Feb 16, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> Hey everyone, did you all know that there is now a KT170?



85W? 

Later Edit: Some specs here for KT170.


----------



## incredulousity

I wonder if special KTxx adapters could be made to allow external heater circuit as per GU50. Would take a different power supply, obviously, but I think it would be interesting to try, for example, KT77 drivers with Tung Sol 5998 powers, or a mixed quad of KT88 and TS 5998 powers.


----------



## Sunset1982

Who of you guys is running the euforia together with a streamer? I want to buy a streamer and wonder how it works together with the euforia and how their integrated headhpone outputs compare to the euforia... maybe someone who knows about those things can send me a pm... thx


----------



## barontan2418

incredulousity said:


> Hey everyone, did you all know that there is now a KT170?
> 
> Just kidding. I don't think that this is any better idea than the also unsuitable KT150.
> 
> ...


Hi.
Couple of pointers on the GU50, it doesn't come into it's own until several hundred hours on it and check the pins for a grey coating. Not certain why the coating is applied but might be an idea to sand it off. Enjoy, looks like you've a lot of rolling to embark upon.🥴


----------



## incredulousity

barontan2418 said:


> Hi.
> Couple of pointers on the GU50, it doesn't come into it's own until several hundred hours on it and check the pins for a grey coating. Not certain why the coating is applied but might be an idea to sand it off. Enjoy, looks like you've a lot of rolling to embark upon.🥴



Thanks for the tip! In that case, I’ll probably start with the six pack of GU50 all at once.


----------



## connieflyer

Have tried the kt88and kt66 combo also. With the Gu50's I tried a pair of kt 88's and a pair of Gu 50's in power with kt77 as drivers and liked that sound as well. Six pack of Gu50's are doing well and I enjoy them very much.  Also used a quad of Gu50's.


----------



## Sunset1982

has someone tried the quad GL KT88 withe the eufria AE? is It better then the stock tubes with the AE? With the euforia it seems it was a common recommendation..
.


----------



## connieflyer

I tried the quad of KT 88, quad of KT 66, pair of KT 66,KT 88,, but the best one I found was the KT 77 as drivers and the KT 88 as powers. All sounded better than the stock tubes.


----------



## Sunset1982 (Feb 18, 2021)

Could you discribe the difference to the stock tube sound With the Kt77 and kt88? The kt77 needs the same socket converter, right?


----------



## Piccolo

Sunset1982 said:


> Who of you guys is running the euforia together with a streamer? I want to buy a streamer and wonder how it works together with the euforia and how their integrated headhpone outputs compare to the euforia... maybe someone who knows about those things can send me a pm... thx


I have a Euforia 20AE being fed with a Naim NDX which sounds absolutely marvellous. The Naim is connected over a wired Ethernet network to a Synology NAS as it uses DNLA set up is simplicity itself. It is very revealing if your sound files are low res, it will not sound very good the same with bad recordings. I tend to try and keep to 24/96 FLAC files then it is truly lovely. The Naim does not have a headphone amp so I would not know, although Naim is in the same company as Focal


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 18, 2021)

Piccolo said:


> I have a Euforia 20AE being fed with a Naim NDX which sounds absolutely marvellous. The Naim is connected over a wired Ethernet network to a Synology NAS as it uses DNLA set up is simplicity itself. It is very revealing if your sound files are low res, it will not sound very good the same with bad recordings. I tend to try and keep to 24/96 FLAC files then it is truly lovely. The Naim does not have a headphone amp so I would not know, although Naim is in the same company as Focal


I am absolutely loving the KT77 driver, KT88 power combination. It lacked detail early on, but was beautiful, dreamy, and bloomy. The bloom decreased, and the detail came in abundance. Soundstage is insanely good. Best thing I have ever heard, regardless of headphone (Empy, 800S, or VO). Empys are lacking in bass only for very quiet recordings (192/24 remaster of Supertramp "Crime of the Century" is a good test for this.) Work around for this is to increase ref level of DAC and/or decrease the volume level decrease in my EQ profile, as quiet recordings never get anywhere near -5db even, I tried KT66, and liked a lot, but it did trippy things to soundstage, which were starting to improve, but then I decided to play with the KT77s. Will retry the KT66 and also quad of KT88s over the next couple weeks, before going to GU50 land.

One question: Since the GU50s take an enormous amount of break-in, can I do this off the amp, just in the externally-powered heater adapters? It would be very convenient, if it were safe to do so.


----------



## Sunset1982

incredulousity said:


> I am absolutely loving the KT77 driver, KT88 power combination. It lacked detail early on, but was beautiful, dreamy, and bloomy. The bloom decreased, and the detail came in abundance. Soundstage is insanely good. Best thing I have ever heard, regardless of headphone (Empy, 800S, or VO). Empys are lacking in bass only for very quiet recordings (192/24 remaster of Supertramp "Crime of the Century" is a good test for this.) Work around for this is to increase ref level of DAC and/or decrease the volume level decrease in my EQ profile, as quiet recordings never get anywhere near -5db even, I tried KT66, and liked a lot, but it did trippy things to soundstage, which were starting to improve, but then I decided to play with the KT77s. Will retry the KT66 and also quad of KT88s over the next couple weeks, before going to GU50 land.
> 
> One question: Since the GU50s take an enormous amount of break-in, can I do this off the amp, just in the externally-powered heater adapters? It would be very convenient, if it were safe to do so.


Is this with the euforia anniversary edition or the euforia?


----------



## incredulousity

Sunset1982 said:


> Is this with the euforia anniversary edition or the euforia?


Euforia AE


----------



## Piccolo

Hi
Wonder if I could ask some advice with respect to Power valves.
I have come across a source of USA made GE 6080 black plate valves for £12 each, but they do not match them. How much out of matching tolerance would be acceptable before it is a no no? 
Perhaps it would be better to go with a matched pair of NOS RCA 6AS7G? 
Older valves are becoming increasing difficult to source at sensible prices so I thought it would be prudent to lay in replacements while they are still available.

Amp is a Euforia 20AE


----------



## Sunset1982

Piccolo said:


> Hi
> Wonder if I could ask some advice with respect to Power valves.
> I have come across a source of USA made GE 6080 black plate valves for £12 each, but they do not match them. How much out of matching tolerance would be acceptable before it is a no no?
> Perhaps it would be better to go with a matched pair of NOS RCA 6AS7G?
> ...


How are the  NOS RCA 6AS7G compared to the stock tubes?


----------



## barontan2418

Sunset1982 said:


> How are the  NOS RCA 6AS7G compared to the stock tubes?


Hi Piccolo. Not certain if there is a recommended tolerance but as long as tubes are in working order then there is no requirement for them to be matched. £12 each seems a very fair price.


----------



## OctavianH

As far as I know there is no need for matched pairs in F.A. amps. Save your money people.


----------



## Piccolo

Sunset1982 said:


> How are the  NOS RCA 6AS7G compared to the stock tubes?


They apparently sound better, although I am only going by what I have heard on forums such as this so it could be pure hearsay, My main motivation is to have a stock of reasonably priced compatible valves that sound nice.
To illustrate my point I have found some very nice Mullard ECC32 but at a price that made me wince somewhat: 
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc32-cv181-mullard-kb-a-matched-pair-nos-boxed-valve-tube-lc93/ 
Especially when you have to take into account the fact that valves have a finite lifespan.


----------



## Piccolo

barontan2418 said:


> Hi Piccolo. Not certain if there is a recommended tolerance but as long as tubes are in working order then there is no requirement for them to be matched. £12 each seems a very fair price.





OctavianH said:


> As far as I know there is no need for matched pairs in F.A. amps. Save your money people.


Well that is good to know.
Why do buyers insist upon and vendors trumpet the matching of valves?


----------



## mayurs

OctavianH said:


> As far as I know there is no need for matched pairs in F.A. amps. Save your money people.



I read somewhere earlier that driver tubes need to be matched if not the power tubes specifically, but am happy to be corrected if that is not the case as I am looking to buy some 6sn7 drivers.


----------



## mordy

_One question: Since the GU50s take an enormous amount of break-in, can I do this off the amp, just in the externally-powered heater adapters?_
This is a very good question, and I am curious if people have the answer to this question.
Somehow I have the feeling that tubes should be broken in using music and not let them just sit and percolate, but I have no basis for this.
There are people who claim that you should not let the tubes stay on for very extended periods during break-in and let them rest after say 8 hours or so and that this help to improve the sound. Personally I think that there is truth to this - the tubes seems to get "tired" if you leave them on too long in the beginning. Letting them rest overnight make them seem to sound better the following day. Again, this is not based on anything scientific, just on personal observations that may be imagined. Or maybe not....
Having rolled a number of tubes, I realize the value of break-in. Normally around 50 hours does the job, but some tubes take much longer - as mentioned, some tubes take hundreds of hours.


----------



## mordy

Piccolo said:


> Well that is good to know.
> Why do buyers insist upon and vendors trumpet the matching of valves?


Because by insisting on this unscrupulous sellers can charge more. You do not need matched tubes.

As a matter of fact, in the tube era new tubes that differed 10% in measurements were considered perfectly acceptable.

Now the clincher: A Head Fi member invested in a good tube tester and had it calibrated. He bought a lot of some 6 or 8 identical tubes as NOS and tested them. All measured good except for one that measured well below the minimum good measurement.
I asked him to put in a good tube and the subpar tube as a pair, and asked him if he could hear a difference.
To his great surprise he could not hear any difference!


----------



## mordy

Piccolo said:


> Hi
> Wonder if I could ask some advice with respect to Power valves.
> I have come across a source of USA made GE 6080 black plate valves for £12 each, but they do not match them. How much out of matching tolerance would be acceptable before it is a no no?
> Perhaps it would be better to go with a matched pair of NOS RCA 6AS7G?
> ...


The GE tubes do not get much love - don't bother with them. Try to get a pair of inexpensive Sylvania/Philips 6080 tubes - good sounding, inexpensive and very underrated.


----------



## amele

Hi, I'm interested in the synergy with Verite and Euforia, is it a good amp for ZMF Verite and how good are the Gold PSVane tubes or do you suggest replacing only these or are they good


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 21, 2021)

The stock tubes on my Euforia AE, which include the Gold PSVanes, are excellent. You can live happily with them. Other tubes may or may not sound better to you. I am enjoying tube rolling now, and finding some better (to me), and some not. This thread is worth reading in its entirety.

Synergy with Verité Open is great with any tube I’ve tried in the amp. These phones love the Euforia AE.


----------



## OctavianH (Feb 21, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> The stock tubes on my Euforia AE, which include the Gold PSVanes, are excellent.



I also find the PsVane CV181T2 excellent in Elise. This is the reason I have decided to try PsVane KT88-II and tomorrow I will receive them. Might not be as good as GEC KT88 but for sure they are interesting. I found them at a good price in Germany with condition "used". Anyway the seller tried them only a few hours because he upgraded. Thinking that the CV181T2 started to sound as expected after around 200hrs I think I will have a long time ahead to burn in these KT88-II.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Does anyone happen to know how long Feliks' own tubes have to/should burn in?
I bought the Psvane Gold Edition when I bought the Euforia.
And currently spent 30 hours with it.

I have a matched pair of Rca 6as7g from 1950 and Mullards 6080 from 1950.
How long do they have to burn before you get good results?


----------



## Piccolo

According to the user guide the valves take 50 hours to reach an optimum state and should last about 5000 hours before needing to be replaced. Although with all the tube rolling going on I wonder if any one has actually reached that on one set of valves, Older valves may reach an optimum state quicker (and perhaps not last as long?) due to age although that is not based on experience just thinking aloud.


----------



## mordy

Piccolo said:


> According to the user guide the valves take 50 hours to reach an optimum state and should last about 5000 hours before needing to be replaced. Although with all the tube rolling going on I wonder if any one has actually reached that on one set of valves, Older valves may reach an optimum state quicker (and perhaps not last as long?) due to age although that is not based on experience just thinking aloud.


I know of people who have used the same tubes in their amplifiers for more than ten years, and there was still life left in them. Many older tubes can last 10,000 hours. 
A Russian vacuum tube intended for use in a tank or jet fighter may be rated for 3000 or 5000 (EV rating) or 10,000 (DR rating) hours, but under the conditions it is used in a tube amp may last considerably longer.
50 hours of break in is a good rule, but some tubes require much more time to reach their full potential.


----------



## Piccolo

Has anyone seen this? Sounds really interesting

https://brimaruk.com/menugbvp/great-british-valve-project-2/

Found them while searching for a pre-amp valve. They are selling Brimar TP 6SN7GT for £25 each.


----------



## mordy

Piccolo said:


> Has anyone seen this? Sounds really interesting
> 
> https://brimaruk.com/menugbvp/great-british-valve-project-2/
> 
> Found them while searching for a pre-amp valve. They are selling Brimar TP 6SN7GT for £25 each.


From memory these 6SN7 tubes are Russian re-issues that they sell to raise money for their project. You can get a better price on the internet. I have a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GTB Russian re-issues that don't see any use.
Unfortunately, these attempts to revive the old manufacturing does not seem to meet with much success - anything happening with the Western Electric new issue 300B?


----------



## Deleeh

Is it possible to install in the Euforia the 6SN7GT?


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Is it possible to install in the Euforia the 6SN7GT?


No problem - you just need a pair. The Psvane 181 is a 6SN7 variant.


----------



## Deleeh

Nice to hear,thanks @mordy 

I have see they have a KT88 in see,can it be worth for a try?


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Nice to hear,thanks @mordy
> 
> I have see they have a KT88 in see,can it be worth for a try?


I am not familiar with that tube, but many people on the forum have tried them and can advise you.


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> I am not familiar with that tube, but many people on the forum have tried them and can advise you.


Better off going for Gold Lion KT88 if your wanting to try this tube out. It has a good reputation for one of the newer 88's. Many on the thread had tried it out and liked it including myself.


----------



## Piccolo

barontan2418 said:


> Better off going for Gold Lion KT88 if your wanting to try this tube out. It has a good reputation for one of the newer 88's. Many on the thread had tried it out and liked it including myself.


Would you need an adaptor for this valve?


----------



## Deleeh

no i mean you can change so without adapter.You replace the Ps vane as driver tube.
So i have understand it.
Thanks @mordy and @barontan2418 ✌️😉👍


----------



## barontan2418 (Feb 21, 2021)

Piccolo said:


> Would you need an adaptor for this valve?



Yes. This one is ebay. 6L6/7581 to 6AS7 adapter.


----------



## Deleeh

Is it possible to find in Europe the Adapter or only Usa and China?When i put the KT 88 tube directly without Adapter it gives a liitle smoke?


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Nice to hear,thanks @mordy
> 
> I have see they have a KT88 in see,can it be worth for a try?


KT88 will require an adapter and has greater heater current than 6SN7 so is better suited to power position, not diver.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Is it possible to find in Europe the Adapter or only Usa and China?When i put the KT 88 tube directly without Adapter it gives a liitle smoke?


Do NOT put it in directly!!! Yes there is a European adapter maker who does excellent work here on head-fi. PM @Deyan. He is a pleasutre to deal with.


----------



## barontan2418

Deleeh said:


> Is it possible to find in Europe the Adapter or only Usa and China?When i put the KT 88 tube directly without Adapter it gives a liitle smoke?



You should only use tubes recommended for this amp without adapter. All KT's require an adapter. Care must be taken or you will damage your amplifier
There is a member of Headfi who makes adapters and he is based in EU. Search for Deyan and send him a PM.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Thanks guys.now I have to ask again stupid is the Kt 88 tube for the Euforia a power or driver tube intended?


----------



## mayurs

Got my most wanted tubes for the Euforia, thanks to a nice gentleman here. Enjoying them immensely.


----------



## Deleeh

@mayurs  What tube you have inside? It looks nicely


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Thanks guys.now I have to ask again stupid is the Kt 88 tube for the Euforia a power or driver tube intended?


Theoretically either if you don't exceed current limits, but really best suited as power tubes.


----------



## mayurs

Deleeh said:


> @mayurs  What tube you have inside? It looks nicely



Its a GEC CV2353 6AS7G tube.


----------



## JTbbb

Anyone bought tubes from Vintage-Electronics.co.uk?


----------



## barontan2418 (Feb 23, 2021)

JTbbb said:


> Anyone bought tubes from Vintage-Electronics.co.uk?


Sorry, not that I remember JT. As a side note I've been turned down on purchases from Germany and India for tubes and USA for headphones so far. That's the bad side of Brexit.


----------



## OctavianH

barontan2418 said:


> Sorry, not that I remember JT. As a side note I've been turned down on purchases from Germany and India for tubes and USA for headphones so far. That's the bad side of Brexit.



I have the same problem in reversed direction. My last purchase from Langrex costed me 20% more taxes and a trip to Customs so... I decided to avoid UK if Germany or France provide me an alternative. Not to consider increased delivery times.


----------



## JTbbb

I’ve bought some tubes from France for the sum of €200. Following tracking they are now in customs awaiting payment of Duty. Used to come straight through.


----------



## barontan2418

OctavianH said:


> I have the same problem in reversed direction. My last purchase from Langrex costed me 20% more taxes and a trip to Customs so... I decided to avoid UK if Germany or France provide me an alternative. Not to consider increased delivery times.


😪😪😪


----------



## OctavianH

barontan2418 said:


> 😪😪😪



Well, since I started to search on Ebay.de I found interesting things. For example the PsVane KT88-TII.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> I have the same problem in reversed direction. My last purchase from Langrex costed me 20% more taxes and a trip to Customs so... I decided to avoid UK if Germany or France provide me an alternative. Not to consider increased delivery times.


I received some tubes from a UK dealer some months ago and no import duty was charged. Yesterday from same dealer I had to pay ~5% before they would release my delivery. Brexit related?


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> I received some tubes from a UK dealer some months ago and no import duty was charged. Yesterday from same dealer I had to pay ~5% before they would release my delivery. Brexit related?



I do not think that Brexit influences in any way the commercial agreements with US. It just affects us, inside EU.


----------



## barontan2418 (Feb 25, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> I do not think that Brexit influences in any way the commercial agreements with US. It just affects us, inside EU.


Not to sure about US or at least foreign companies with sales bases there. I got right to the basket of Adorama site before being told they were not doing business with the UK. Might have been for the best in the end. HE 6se was on sale at $700 down from $1700 but I could only drive it on my SS amp.😪


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> I received some tubes from a UK dealer some months ago and no import duty was charged. Yesterday from same dealer I had to pay ~5% before they would release my delivery. Brexit related?


It used to be that internet sales out-of-state were not taxed, but now many states found this to be an additional source of revenue, and many states are phasing in sales tax on purchases.
I live in the State of New York and since around a year ago I am being charged NYS sales tax on everything I buy from any country or within the States. Annoying - but consider yourself lucky - I pay 8.375% sales tax.
However, I am not sure if your state charges sales tax - could be a different use tax.


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> Not to shure about US or at least foreign companies with sales bases there. I got right to the basket of Adorama site before being told they were not doing business with the UK. Might have been for the best in the end. HE 6se was on sale at $700 down from $1700 but I could only drive it on my SS amp.😪


Found this way how to ship to the UK using a freight forwarder but I have no experience with this:
https://www.airfoyle.co.uk/adorama-international-shipping-to-uk/


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> Found this way how to ship to the UK using a freight forwarder but I have no experience with this:
> https://www.airfoyle.co.uk/adorama-international-shipping-to-uk/


That looks very interesting Mordy, many thanks for posting. Adorama comes up with some very good offers every once in a while. I purchased the Weston W80 IEM for half of the UK price even after import tax. Cheers.


----------



## mordy

barontan2418 said:


> That looks very interesting Mordy, many thanks for posting. Adorama comes up with some very good offers every once in a while. I purchased the Weston W80 IEM for half of the UK price even after import tax. Cheers.


Thanks


----------



## Scutey

OctavianH said:


> Well, since I started to search on Ebay.de I found interesting things. For example the PsVane KT88-TII.


They're great lookers, four gold bases gives a nice symmetry .


----------



## JTbbb

JTbbb said:


> I’ve bought some tubes from France for the sum of €200. Following tracking they are now in customs awaiting payment of Duty. Used to come straight through.



Blimey, for those that might be interested. My import invoice dropped through the letter box today. £45.25!! 
Customs Duty £2.56, Import VAT £30.69 and Clearance Fee £12.00

Something to think about isn’t it.


----------



## OctavianH

JTbbb said:


> Blimey, for those that might be interested. My import invoice dropped through the letter box today. £45.25!!
> Customs Duty £2.56, Import VAT £30.69 and Clearance Fee £12.00
> 
> Something to think about isn’t it.



Same for me, VAT 19% + some custom tax (do not remember value, small but overall was 20%).


----------



## amele

hi ,can you recommend me some DAC with EUFORIA, with good synergy


----------



## Ichos

I am enjoying it with Denafrips Pontus and Venus mkii.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> I am enjoying it with Denafrips Pontus and Venus mkii.



I have heard a lot of good about Denafrips Pontus but the price is too high for me, I am looking for a DAC in the price up to 1500 euro. I have in mind:
-Holo Audio - CYAN
-Bifrost 2
-MUSICIAN PEGASUS
-rme adi-2 fs
-Gungnir Multibit
-TOPPING D90 MQA


----------



## mayurs (Feb 26, 2021)

amele said:


> hi ,can you recommend me some DAC with EUFORIA, with good synergy



The Euforia is a very transparent amp and I can easily identify which of 3 DACs is being used with the Euforia. I have a favorite DAC with each of my headphones so Its best to buy something that has good synergy with your headphones. Like a lean transparent DAC works well with a HD650 while a good highly resolving r2r dac with a good low end heft works well with my ATH-ADX5000


----------



## amele

mayurs said:


> The Euforia is a very transparent amp and I can easily identify which of 3 DACs when I use them  with the Euforia. I have a favorite DAC with each of my headphones so Its best to buy something that has good synergy with your headphones. Like a lean transparent DAC works well with a HD650 while a good highly resolving r2r dac with a good low end heft works well with my ATH-ADX5000


headphone I am use is ZMF Verite, these are the only headphones i use


----------



## Ichos

amele said:


> I have heard a lot of good about Denafrips Pontus but the price is too high for me, I am looking for a DAC in the price up to 1500 euro. I have in mind:
> -Holo Audio - CYAN
> -Bifrost 2
> -MUSICIAN PEGASUS
> ...


I am on the r2r , multibit side.
Gungnir OG used to be my favorite.
The new version or the more warmish Bifrost are solid choices.
You can also think about the Denafrips Ares ii or the Pegasus.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> I am on the r2r , multibit side.
> Gungnir OG used to be my favorite.
> The new version or the more warmish Bifrost are solid choices.
> You can also think about the Denafrips Ares ii or the Pegasus.


tnx i also lean more r2r side, at first i thought of taking pegasus but perishability somehow distracted me from that, so I’m at the beginning again and looking for a DAC


----------



## Yoram Diamand

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-ayre-acoustics-qb-9-twenty-r892/


----------



## amele

EUFORIA only has rca input can we get some kind of converter to be able to use XLR connection on DAC


----------



## Ichos

Most balanced Dacs offer  single ended output.


----------



## amele

I have this in my mind
https://ampsandsound.com/products/xlr-to-rca-converters


----------



## Ichos

Why to use input transformers when you already have a decent single ended converter inside the box?
It is very debatable wether sound quality is better with such kind XLR converters.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> Why to use input transformers when you already have a decent single ended converter inside the box?
> It is very debatable wether sound quality is better with such kind XLR converters.


DAC will work better with a converter . Case; analog output RCA 2.2Vrms, XLR 3.55Vrms


----------



## Ichos

It is usually 2V and 4V.
Anyway your call my friend.
BTW , you can always buy a single ended design.
For example
http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> It is usually 2V and 4V.
> Anyway your call my friend.
> BTW , you can always buy a single ended design.
> For example
> http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm


yes I know CHORD Qutest is one of them. I just want to say that it is better if you use, of course if it has, XLR option. But EUFORIA only has an RCA connection so the DAC will not operate at full capacity. So I was thinking of a Black box from ampsandsound or something like that for less money if you get it


----------



## Ichos

I have A/B my Denafrips dacs outputs in a high end two channel system and the single ended out is 95% or more of the XLR sound quality.
So I wouldn't bother.


----------



## amele

Ichos said:


> I have A/B my Denafrips dacs outputs in a high end two channel system and the single ended out is 95% or more of the XLR sound quality.
> So I wouldn't bother.


so it doesn't have that much of an impact on the sound you say, with some Dac it says the XLR output will be more superior. Which Denafrips do you use, Ares 2?


----------



## Ichos

amele said:


> so it doesn't have that much of an impact on the sound you say, with some Dac it says the XLR output will be more superior. Which Denafrips do you use, Ares 2?


I am saying that is 5% better more or less.
I wouldn't bother if I had a single ended amp.
I am using xlr to feed my 2ch amp and single ended for the Euforia.
I have Venus mkii as a resident and Pontus when I need it.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
It depends on how you want to tune the rest.
If you want it to be more musical, then something with an Akm chip. If you want it to be more analytical, then an Esabre chip.
Ideally something with Class A because Class D tends to cause clipping.

But I wouldn't necessarily spend a lot of money.
I run the Euforia with the Singxer Sda 2c and it's a dream for me and decent enough.

Of course you can also use something with R2R Massdrop had something but it seems to have been a shot in the oven.


----------



## pgkrish

I am looking to move from a Burson conductor 3x to a dedicated dac to pair the Euforia with the Verite open. Do you all have any recommendations. Looking for extended treble and prominent mids (for vocals).


----------



## incredulousity (Feb 26, 2021)

I love RME ADI-2 FS with Euforia AE and VO (or any phone that goes well with Euforia). I dislike Sabre based DACs, as they often sound shrill or harsh to me by comparison. I do not by any means consider the RME to be warm, however. It is very neutral and dynamic. I expect that Gustard A18 would be a good pairing as well, having the newer AKG and USB chips, at a nice price. I have RMEs on both of my home stations.


----------



## amele

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> It depends on how you want to tune the rest.
> If you want it to be more musical, then something with an Akm chip. If you want it to be more analytical, then an Esabre chip.
> Ideally something with Class A because Class D tends to cause clipping.
> ...


so it's a better akm chip, maybe i opt for pegasus because everyone is raving about. Also RME is shortlisted just for that kind of money I would like to get the best


----------



## MatW

I use the D90 with the Euforia and I like the pairing, but I haven't compared it with other DACs.


----------



## amele

MatW said:


> I use the D90 with the Euforia and I like the pairing, but I haven't compared it with other DACs.


tnx i have a lot of good choices trying to get the best dac out of what is possible for the money


----------



## elrey (Feb 27, 2021)

Hello, I have been reading the thread, and I have two questions.

Does anyone know if the ‘GF special edition’ 6SN7 globe tubes will fit the Euforia?
Also, is there a dumbed-down list of compatible tubes and where to find them?

Thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
what Tube you mean exactly?
do have a link for what Tubes you mean?


----------



## connieflyer

*The 6SN7SE widest part is 5.5cm diameter. Assuming you need two tubes 0.5cm apart at least, you will need 5.5cm + 0.5 = 6cm from center to center in order to install two tubes side by side..

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/*


----------



## elrey

Deleeh said:


> do have a link for what Tubes you mean?


Hello, this one:
https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/

For what I understand PSVane is gone for good.


----------



## Deleeh

elrey said:


> Hello, this one:
> https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/
> 
> For what I understand PSVane is gone for good.


Ouuff it looks nice,but the Price is really heavy.
For this you can get two pairs form the Feliks version or maybe better.
Or is it on this tube someone special on it?


----------



## elrey

Deleeh said:


> Ouuff it looks nice,but the Price is really heavy.
> For this you can get two pairs form the Feliks version or maybe better.
> Or is it on this tube someone special on it?


I agree. Those are pricy.
I am trying to assess if the Euforia will have tubes available in the future. Of course, NOS can be the answer today, but what about 5 years from now?


----------



## Deleeh

elrey said:


> I agree. Those are pricy.
> I am trying to assess if the Euforia will have tubes available in the future. Of course, NOS can be the answer today, but what about 5 years from now?


I wouldn't worry too much about that.
There will always be something that will fit.
Or some still have new stock tubes somewhere.
Or also conversions by some users here who have converted to KT88 with adapters, and there are a lot of those.
Sure if you have the possibility to get Ps vane then use the time in case you need replacements they are there.
And until they are burnt out, there will be something else or new ones on offer.

Old 6080 mullards are really hard to get in good condition, and if so, quite expensive.
It's all a bit of luck.
With a bit of luck I found the 6080 Mullard new at a very good price. That they came from a batch was even more luck.

In Europe it is even more difficult to find something reasonable than in the USA.
In the worst case, Europeans have to resort to the US market, which is not cheap, also because shipping and customs are added.

As a tip, all you can say is always look in advance and see what the market has to offer.


----------



## mordy

The vacuum tubes were made in the millions, and even though the old tubes have not been made for decades you can always find what you are looking for, even though it may take some patience. On the other hand, the prices seem to be going higher and higher.
There are a few present day manufacturers of vacuum tubes, mainly in China and Russia. Vacuum tube amplifier manufacturers must be able to buy tubes in quantity, and that is why most current production amps offer new production tubes. As an individual you have a much wider choice since you only need pairs of tubes, and you can look for older tubes which often may sound better than the new production ones.
Re the globe tubes I remember somebody who has a Feliks amp and bought a pair. Turned out that they were too big to fit side-by-side, and the only way around it was to add several socket saver adapters to one socket in order to raise one tube higher than the other so that the globe tubes cleared each other.
If you read through the posts you will find much better priced good sounding tubes than the pricey globes.


----------



## elrey

Deleeh said:


> Old 6080 mullards are really hard to get in good condition, and if so, quite expensive.
> It's all a bit of luck.
> With a bit of luck I found the 6080 Mullard new at a very good price. That they came from a batch was even more luck.


Thanks for the tips I will check those



mordy said:


> Re the globe tubes I remember somebody who has a Feliks amp and bought a pair. Turned out that they were too big to fit side-by-side, and the only way around it was to add several socket saver adapters to one socket in order to raise one tube higher than the other so that the globe tubes cleared each other.
> If you read through the posts you will find much better priced good sounding tubes than the pricey globes.


Thanks for the advice. I am using the search function to check for specific tubes.


----------



## OctavianH (Feb 28, 2021)

elrey said:


> Hello, this one:
> https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-edition/
> 
> For what I understand PSVane is gone for good.



@Yoram Diamand used these (or at least similar shape) on Euforia, see here The problem is that, because of the globe shape, he needed to put some socket savers under one of them.

What do you mean by Psvane is gone for good? They stop manufacturing? As far as I know Psvane is just a brand of Shuguang, the tubes are produced in the same factory.

Later Edit: it seems my info was outdated. It seems they made a new company.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/who-is-psvane.html


----------



## connieflyer

One of my GU 50 drivers in my six pack has developed an occaisonal  popping sound, the tubes were re-pinned to 6SN7 config by H, have no replacement, so used a pair of my mesh plate EL11's and very pleased this sounds better than the six pack.  Four blue, two black. nice look to it as well


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> One of my GU 50 drivers in my six pack has developed an occaisonal  popping sound, the tubes were re-pinned to 6SN7 config by H, have no replacement, so used a pair of my mesh plate EL11's and very pleased this sounds better than the six pack.  Four blue, two black. nice look to it as well


That's a configuration I've used, back row of GU50'S driven by EL11 and very good it is. Just wondering how you found the volume when using your 6 pack of GU50'S. I've been trying to get more head room using various combinations as having four tubes in the back row has meant my being at 14:00 to 15:00 when playing classical music.


----------



## mordy

elrey said:


> Thanks for the advice. I am using the search function to check for specific tubes.


A very reputable company is Langrex in the UK. Don't know how the prices compare, but they have the Mullard 6080 in stock it seems:
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6080-cv2984-mullard-pair-england-nos-boxed-valve-tube/


OctavianH said:


> @Yoram Diamand used these (or at least similar shape) on Euforia, see here The problem is that, because of the globe shape, he needed to put some socket savers under one of them.
> 
> What do you mean by Psvane is gone for good? They stop manufacturing? As far as I know Psvane is just a brand of Shuguang, the tubes are produced in the same factory.
> 
> ...


The link sounds more like an advertisement than objective information and seems to be dated from 2011.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> One of my GU 50 drivers in my six pack has developed an occaisonal  popping sound, the tubes were re-pinned to 6SN7 config by H, have no replacement, so used a pair of my mesh plate EL11's and very pleased this sounds better than the six pack.  Four blue, two black. nice look to it as well


Hi CF,
This condition of popping sounds do happen here and there with the old tubes and can be dangerous because you may blow a headphone driver etc. if the popping sounds are very loud.
I have had good luck in curing these tube problems by re-heating the tube pins with a soldering iron. Using a 35-50W soldering iron and heating up each pin individually for 30 seconds or so may help. In extreme cases it may be useful to add a little solder as well but I have not tried this myself .


----------



## connieflyer

barontan2418 said:


> That's a configuration I've used, back row of GU50'S driven by EL11 and very good it is. Just wondering how you found the volume when using your 6 pack of GU50'S. I've been trying to get more head room using various combinations as having four tubes in the back row has meant my being at 14:00 to 15:00 when playing classical music.


When using the six pack of GU50's, volume was lower.  When I added the two EL 11 mesh plates, volume was up substantially.


mordy said:


> Hi CF,
> This condition of popping sounds do happen here and there with the old tubes and can be dangerous because you may blow a headphone driver etc. if the popping sounds are very loud.
> I have had good luck in curing these tube problems by re-heating the tube pins with a soldering iron. Using a 35-50W soldering iron and heating up each pin individually for 30 seconds or so may help. In extreme cases it may be useful to add a little solder as well but I have not tried this myself .


I may try your heating method, soon.  I did not want to take a chance with the popping noise.  It got more frequent, so I will have to find sockets for the two new tubes that I have. They are just stock, still have the hats on them. Thanks Mordy


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> When using the six pack of GU50's, volume was lower.  When I added the two EL 11 mesh plates, volume was up substantially.
> 
> I may try your heating method, soon.  I did not want to take a chance with the popping noise.  It got more frequent, so I will have to find sockets for the two new tubes that I have. They are just stock, still have the hats on them. Thanks Mordy


Because of unexpected things like these pops and other tube problems, I always turn on my system with a pair of old cheap headphones, especially trying out new tubes. If something untoward happens I can avoid blowing out an expensive driver - the old set so far has not got damaged by loud noises that can happen here and there. Let's face it, 50-80 year old tube have a right to be a little cranky now and then lol.


----------



## connieflyer

I do the same thing Mordy, Don't want the good ones ruined.


----------



## Piccolo (Feb 28, 2021)

mordy said:


> A very reputable company is Langrex in the UK. Don't know how the prices compare, but they have the Mullard 6080 in stock it seems:
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6080-cv2984-mullard-pair-england-nos-boxed-valve-tube/
> 
> The link sounds more like an advertisement than objective information and seems to be dated from 2011.


I purchased a pair of Mullard 6030s from Langrex which came yesterday, They have the code R6F1 so Mitcham factory. They sound quite nice but do need a few more hours before they come on song. But even now l can hear greater bass extension and a smoother treble, not at all rolled off. Mids were a bit recessed, but I am not that worried as all valves take a while to settle down and as I listen to them they are evening out.
Always liked Mullards, I can remember going to the local radio shop with my father in the 60s being offered a cheaper alternative and my father insisting on mullards. Now if I could only afford the ECC32s that Langrex have for sale. . .


----------



## connieflyer

Price for those are off the charts. Would like to hear them sometime


----------



## Piccolo

Original cost was probably 12/- a pair or 60p


----------



## elrey (Feb 28, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> What do you mean by Psvane is gone for good? They stop manufacturing? As far as I know Psvane is just a brand of Shuguang, the tubes are produced in the same factory.


Hello, That is the part that I don't fully understand. Here they talk about discontinuation:
https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/post-psvane-discontinuation-updates/
But here, PSVane looks alive: http://www.psvane.com/en

I contacted customer support last night, asking them where to find their tubes in the US.



OctavianH said:


> Later Edit: it seems my info was outdated. It seems they made a new company.
> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/who-is-psvane.html


I understand that they started with a manufacturing partnership, but then they departed with PSVane having their own production.

Update: The blogpost was just about Grant Fidelity (premiumvacuumtubes.com), no longer selling PSVane. I misunderstood.
https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/for-...ntire-psvane-line-as-of-8pm-mst-feb-7th-2021/


----------



## mordy

Read through some material to try to understand the convoluted present history of Chinese tube manufacturing. It appears that the original factory was the state owned Shuguang factory. In 2019 the land that this factory was situated on was sold for housing development and production shut down. It is unclear if it will resume.
Prior to this there was discord in the management of Shuguang and a number of people left in 2009 and formed their own company called Psvane. Later Psvane acquired another Chinese manufacturer called T J Full Music. A major part of the production are tubes for guitar amplifiers.
Recently there was another upheaval at Psvane, and management people left to form another new company of their own called LINLAI.
Enter the major distributor of Psvane for North America which is located in Calgary, Canada - Grant Fidelity. They started to offer LINLAI tubes for sale whereupon Psvane terminated their business relationship with Grant Fidelity as of February 7, 2021.
What bothers me is the mudslinging on all sides, each side accusing each other of selling low quality tubes etc. 
In addition, my personal opinion is that Psvane repackaged the same or similar tubes in many different packages and color and shape schemes, charging all different prices. Looking back in tube manufacturing history, the same tube may had to be screened and selected to pass tougher standards and tolerances for military use, or be engineered for extra long life, but we do not find the same tube production coming in different flavors.

The following is a quote from the Grant website:
_FYI, in the past 12 months, Grant Fidelity have returned 161 tubes from the factory deliveries of Psvane tubes, EVEN AFTER the screening at the tube factory with our provided test equipment, and AFTER we paid a price premium for the screening and selection service. That is nearly every other day we have a failed defective tube from the supply of ‘screened’ Psvane tubes. In the past decade, we have returned thousands of defective tubes.)

We are immediately collecting our not-so-inexpensive tube testing equipment from Psvane tube factory, rather than leaving it there to collect dust and serve NO quality control purpose it was meant to._

Who would have thought that an importer needs to buy their own test equipment for the tube manufacturer to insure quality control?

Here are the sources:
https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/

https://linlaiglobal.com/


----------



## elrey (Feb 28, 2021)

mordy said:


> Looking back in tube manufacturing history, the same tube may had to be screened and selected to pass tougher standards and tolerances for military use, or be engineered for extra long life, but we do not find the same tube production coming in different flavors.


My take from this is that in 2021 it is not a problem related to manufacturing technology or lack of knowledge in quality control. Some brands are focusing only on the return over investment and not on the product per se. In that regard, it makes sense to push as many tubes as possible out of the factory door and make them look expensive



mordy said:


> Who would have thought that an importer needs to buy their own test equipment for the tube manufacturer to insure quality control?


Agree. That part was surprising.

(edited for clarity)


----------



## OctavianH

Let's see then what stock drivers will F. A. provide if the CV181T2 will not be available anymore. I have a pair of these and I used them around 2000-3000 hours without problem, but mine were manufactured sometimes around 2017. Recently I bought a pair of KT88T2 which I currently listen and quite appreciate. So both types of Psvane I had the chance to listen are somewhere in my short list of tubes I like. Well, after what I've just read it seems these will remain the only Psvanes I will ever own.
The KT88T2s I've bought from somebody selling 3 pieces. Most probably he had a quad and one of them failed, so he decided to get rid of them at half the price. I have no problem in buying them since we are not using them in our headphone amplifiers at the same parameters they are designed and used in the speaker amps. So I guess these will have a long life in my case. At least I hope so.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Let's see then what stock drivers will F. A. provide if the CV181T2 will not be available anymore. I have a pair of these and I used them around 2000-3000 hours without problem, but mine were manufactured sometimes around 2017. Recently I bought a pair of KT88T2 which I currently listen and quite appreciate. So both types of Psvane I had the chance to listen are somewhere in my short list of tubes I like. Well, after what I've just read it seems these will remain the only Psvanes I will ever own.
> The KT88T2s I've bought from somebody selling 3 pieces. Most probably he had a quad and one of them failed, so he decided to get rid of them at half the price. I have no problem in buying them since we are not using them in our headphone amplifiers at the same parameters they are designed and used in the speaker amps. So I guess these will have a long life in my case. At least I hope so.


From reading through the various websites my impression is that Psvane is continuing to produce tubes. The only factory that closed was the original Shuguang factory, but ten years before that happened, experienced people had left the company and founded Psvane.
The Canadian distributor had a fallout with Psvane but that should not prevent tubes from being available.


----------



## Deleeh

What alternatives would there be to the Ps vane and conversion to Kt88 tubes that are good?
The Power Tube from the Gold Edition that Feliks offered with a 200€ surcharge didn't really blow me away.
I found the Rca much better as Power tube
Surely again a matter of taste at the end of the day.
I have seen the Ps vane for 220€ as a driver tube pair.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> What alternatives would there be to the Ps vane and conversion to Kt88 tubes that are good?
> The Power Tube from the Gold Edition that Feliks offered with a 200€ surcharge didn't really blow me away.
> I found the Rca much better as Power tube
> Surely again a matter of taste at the end of the day.
> I have seen the Ps vane for 220€ as a driver tube pair.


I use several KT88's in Elise with adapters, and the new production one I enjoy iss Genalex Gold Lion KT88. Readily available and worth a try IMHO.


----------



## Deleeh

I'll have a look at that.
I wrote to the person who sells the adapters in Europe.
And let's see what Kt 88 tubes are available in Europe, so far I have found Brimar and Tad.
Let's see what else I find 😊,thanks.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

elrey said:


> Hello, I have been reading the thread, and I have two questions.
> 
> Does anyone know if the ‘GF special edition’ 6SN7 globe tubes will fit the Euforia?
> Also, is there a dumbed-down list of compatible tubes and where to find them?
> ...


Hi I have the Psvane 6sn7SE globes and they do not fit side by side, so you have to lift one up with 2 tube sockets I think they are called. They sound nice though.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I have the Psvane 6sn7SE globes and they do not fit side by side, so you have to lift one up with 2 tube sockets I think they are called. They sound nice though.


 socket savers


----------



## mordy

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I have the Psvane 6sn7SE globes and they do not fit side by side, so you have to lift one up with 2 tube sockets I think they are called. They sound nice though.


If you want to buy the items to lift up the tube, look under* octal socket savers. *


----------



## elrey

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I have the Psvane 6sn7SE globes and they do not fit side by side, so you have to lift one up with 2 tube sockets I think they are called. They sound nice though.


Hello, Thanks for the information


LoryWiv said:


> I use several KT88's in Elise with adapters, and the new production one I enjoy iss Genalex Gold Lion KT88. Readily available and worth a try IMHO.


Which adapter is good? I found some on eBay, willl those work fine?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Did you know the Psvane Acme tubes have a 6sn7 brother in the Linlai Elite Serie E6SN7? Just bought a pair I do not know what to expect.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

elrey said:


> Hello, Thanks for the information
> 
> Which adapter is good? I found some on eBay, willl those work fine?


https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-NEW-TUBE...47bcbbe7b602b0493da4|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524 I think this is the one you need or gold plated


----------



## mordy

Yoram Diamand said:


> Did you know the Psvane Acme tubes have a 6sn7 brother in the Linlai Elite Serie E6SN7? Just bought a pair I do not know what to expect.


The founder of LINLAI tubes has been working in the management of both Shuguang and Psvane so perhaps we can expect something similar sounding, although the production is in a different factory.
On the other hand the LINLAI literature mentions "commissioning" tubes - perhaps some styles will be made by other factories in China and you may be buying a Psvane with a different name....
Found a post from Grant Fidelity before the split with Psvane:
https://www.dagogo.com/linlai-tubes-distributed-grant-fidelity/

One interesting aspect with Lin Lai (aka Linlai or LINLAI) tubes is that they are producing some lower priced tubes. We'll see how this brand plays out, but all the posts are voicing concerns about quality....


----------



## LoryWiv (Mar 1, 2021)

Yoram Diamand said:


> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-NEW-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-8-PIN-OCTAL-TUBES-6L6-6V6-6SN7-EL34,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I think this is the one you need or gold plated


*No *@elrey , I think this is just a socket saver, *not an adapter*. I recommend reaching out to head-fi user @Deyan. he makes excellent adapters at a fair price. Others use Ebay seller XulingMrs. Her adapter *here* should be fine.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

LoryWiv said:


> *No *@elrey , I think this is just a socket saver, *not an adapter*. I recommend reaching out to head-fi user @Deyan. he makes excellent adapters at a fair price. Others use Ebay seller XulingMrs. Her adapter *here* should be fine.


When you want the 6sn7 SE globes for Euforia you need to use not an adapter but the from 8 to 8 socket saver, or 2 of them


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Yoram Diamand said:


> When you want the 6sn7 SE globes for Euforia you need to use not an adapter but the from 8 to 8 socket saver, or 2 of them


----------



## elrey

LoryWiv said:


> *No *@elrey , I think this is just a socket saver, *not an adapter*. I recommend reaching out to head-fi user @Deyan. he makes excellent adapters at a fair price. Others use Ebay seller XulingMrs. Her adapter *here* should be fine.


Got it thanks, I will contact him regarding the KT88 adapter


Yoram Diamand said:


> When you want the 6sn7 SE globes for Euforia you need to use not an adapter but the from 8 to 8 socket saver, or 2 of them


Yes, for the 6SN7 globed the socket saver will help to elevate one of them

Many thanks


----------



## LoryWiv

Yoram Diamand said:


> When you want the 6sn7 SE globes for Euforia you need to use not an adapter but the from 8 to 8 socket saver, or 2 of them


Exactly, one needs to distinguish socket saver from adapter, depending upon intended purpose.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
What is the advantage and difference when you replace the Ps Vane driver tubes with KT88 driver tubes with socket adapters?


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> What is the advantage and difference when you replace the Ps Vane driver tubes with KT88 driver tubes with socket adapters?


First of all, *DO NOT REPLACE* the Psvane drivers with KT88 and keeping the stock powers because *YOU WILL EXCEED MAXIMUM ALLOWED LOAD* on Euforia which is *7A*.
Before you start to make tube rolling you should know the ratings of the tube types you use and carefully choose your combos under the maximum load. Doing otherwise might damage your amplifier. The stock powers are 6AS7G and each of them requires 2.5A. The stock drivers are 6SN7 and each of them require 0.6A. All 4 stock tubes have in total 2x2.5+2x0.6=6.2A. If you replace the drivers with KT88 keeping those powers you will have 2x2.5 + 2x1.6=8.2A!!! What you can do is to replace the powers with KT88 keeping the stock drivers or choose other combination. You can easily check tube type parameters on the datasheets or websites like:

For example, 6AS7G:
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0679.htm





Or in the datasheets, the current being Ih (heater):
http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/kt88.pdf





As a general idea, Elise/Euforia/EuforiaAE accept tubes with Vh = 6.3V and sum(Ih)=7A (maximum). Please try not to exceed this value.

PS. If you already knew this and wanted to replace also power please accept my excuses, I wanted to double check that you are aware of these.


----------



## Deleeh

OctavianH said:


> First of all, *DO NOT REPLACE* the Psvane drivers with KT88 and keeping the stock powers because *YOU WILL EXCEED MAXIMUM ALLOWED LOAD* on Euforia which is *7A*.
> Before you start to make tube rolling you should know the ratings of the tube types you use and carefully choose your combos under the maximum load. Doing otherwise might damage your amplifier. The stock powers are 6AS7G and each of them requires 2.5A. The stock drivers are 6SN7 and each of them require 0.6A. All 4 stock tubes have in total 2x2.5+2x0.6=6.2A. If you replace the drivers with KT88 keeping those powers you will have 2x2.5 + 2x1.6=8.2A!!! What you can do is to replace the powers with KT88 keeping the stock drivers or choose other combination. You can easily check tube type parameters on the datasheets or websites like:
> 
> For example, 6AS7G:
> ...


Hello,
Thank you for the detailed answer.
No, I did not know that.
I only saw that some people here have just converted to Kt88 with the adapter.

So in the end I have to look at what the power output is with the Kt88 tubes in order not to exceed this if I have understood correctly?or also consider the total power.

I currently have the Ps Vane driver tubes and the 6080 Mullard (old stock) as the power tube inside.


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> So in the end I have to look at what the power output is with the Kt88 tubes in order not to exceed this if I have understood correctly?or also consider the total power.
> 
> I currently have the Ps Vane driver tubes and the 6080 Mullard (old stock) as the power tube inside.



Yes, before deciding to change the drivers or the powers you should check not to exceed 7A. What you should to is to calculate the sum of the Ih for all 4 tubes and that value should not exceed 7A. 6080 has the same Ih as 6AS7 which is 2.5A. This means you cannot use KT88 as drivers. Until you get familiarized with several tube types I recommed that you ask here or follow some already recommended combinations.

Here you see 6080:
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0725.htm


----------



## Deleeh

OctavianH said:


> Yes, before deciding to change the drivers or the powers you should check not to exceed 7A. What you should to is to calculate the sum of the Ih for all 4 tubes and that value should not exceed 7A. 6080 has the same Ih as 6AS7 which is 2.5A. This means you cannot use KT88 as drivers. Until you get familiarized with several tube types I recommed that you ask here or follow some already recommended combinations.
> 
> Here you see 6080:
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0725.htm


Oh crap.
Now I have ordered the adapter for the Kt88 conversion from Deyan unnecessarily.
YES, that's really bad luck.

What else has crystallised as a Ps vane replacement?


----------



## barontan2418

Deleeh said:


> Oh crap.
> Now I have ordered the adapter for the Kt88 conversion from Deyan unnecessarily.
> YES, that's really bad luck.
> 
> What else has crystallised as a Ps vane replacement?


KT88 adapters will allow you to try KT77, KT66, KT88 and 7581a at a later date so useful to have in your arsenal.


----------



## Deleeh

barontan2418 said:


> KT88 adapters will allow you to try KT77, KT66, KT88 and 7581a at a later date so useful to have in your arsenal.


Hello
I understood about the 7 amp maximum limit.
According to your link, the Mullard 6080 has 2.5 Ah.
Where do I find this Ah value in the data sheet for the driver tube?
If I take this tube as an example, I cannot find an Ah value to determine whether I am within the 1 ampere limit or not.
Or rather, I can't find the Ah value in the data sheet.
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/media/pdf/67/ab/8c/specifications_kt77_jj.pdf


----------



## incredulousity

Deleeh said:


> Hello
> I understood about the 7 amp maximum limit.
> According to your link, the Mullard 6080 has 2.5 Ah.
> Where do I find this Ah value in the data sheet for the driver tube?
> ...


If=cca 1.4A


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello
> I understood about the 7 amp maximum limit.
> According to your link, the Mullard 6080 has 2.5 Ah.
> Where do I find this Ah value in the data sheet for the driver tube?
> ...


What you are looking for is current draw in ampere -A. All spec sheets list this. Personally, I like to go to the website of Radiomuseum and type in which tube you are looking for. A few lines down you will se the amount of current draw of the tube where it says Filament.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6080.html
These pages are also very useful since they list other tube designations for the same tube. The 6080 is a US designation, CV2984 is the same tube speaking British English, and ECC230 is a European designation. In addition, you can see which tubes preceded the 6080 and which tubes succeeded them.


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> What you are looking for is current draw in ampere -A. All spec sheets list this. Personally, I like to go to the website of Radiomuseum and type in which tube you are looking for. A few lines down you will se the amount of current draw of the tube where it says Filament.
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6080.html
> These pages are also very useful since they list other tube designations for the same tube. The 6080 is a US designation, CV2984 is the same tube speaking British English, and ECC230 is a European designation. In addition, you can see which tubes preceded the 6080 and which tubes succeeded them.


Phew,
It's not easy to understand as a beginner, but I'm getting the hang of it.
IF is the output voltage of the tube when I look at the data sheet, if I have understood it correctly.


Since the 6080s have 2.5 amps and I add them together, I actually only have 1 amp per tube left as a driver.
Does that even exist as a driver tube?


Theoretically, if the power tube has less amps, for example 2.0, it doesn't matter if the driver tube has more, as long as I don't exceed the 7 total amperes.
Do I understand this correctly?

I have only looked at the Radiomuseum page sporadically, so I guess it's time to take a closer look.

I still have a set of Rca as a power tube, I would have to see what it has.

Thanks for all the information.👍✌️
I would have bought it propmt and wondered afterwards why it went up in smoke.🙈


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Phew,
> It's not easy to understand as a beginner, but I'm getting the hang of it.
> IF is the output voltage of the tube when I look at the data sheet, if I have understood it correctly.
> 
> ...


You understand correctly, it does not matter which position the tubes are in, only the total current draw.  You just add up the sum total.
It is possible to use tubes or tube combinations that draw more current if you use special adapters where the power for the tubes come from an external power supply ( the tube pins that conduct the current to drive them are disconnected from the amp ) but that is another story.


----------



## Deleeh

Okay great thanks guys.learned something again and saved money and hassle.
Then I'll leave the Mullard with the Psvane in for the time being - the setup isn't all that bad either, and buying the adapters wasn't a bad idea in the end.

Maybe I'll find something that fits when the opportunity arises and I'll be flexible.
Or Brimar and co. really bring out a solid 6sn7 where you could think about it.would be great if something comes from the British side.
So far I've only found the Russian one, which is a shame.
At least in Germany there is only that one.
And I'd rather stay away from Ebay.
Maybe I can find something via the threath where there are 600 pages.

Thank you very much again for your help, I appreciate it.👍✌️👍✌️😉


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Okay great thanks guys.learned something again and saved money and hassle.
> Then I'll leave the Mullard with the Psvane in for the time being - the setup isn't all that bad either, and buying the adapters wasn't a bad idea in the end.
> 
> Maybe I'll find something that fits when the opportunity arises and I'll be flexible.
> ...


I combine the linlai elite 6sn7 with the 7236, when the mailman comes


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Oh crap.
> Now I have ordered the adapter for the Kt88 conversion from Deyan unnecessarily.
> YES, that's really bad luck.
> 
> What else has crystallised as a Ps vane replacement?


No worries, still usable...you can use the KT88's as power (w/Deyan's adapters) with any 6SN7, as @OctavianH  noted, They are probably better suited as powers than drivers anyway.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> *I actually only have 1 amp per tube left as a driver.
> Does that even exist as a driver tube?*


Absolutely! Standard 6SN7's ar 0.6 A per tube, and with Deyan's adapters you can use 6V6 (0.45 A) or 6L6 (0.9 A) and more. 

Here is another great resource for tube data sheets: *https://frank.pocnet.net. *

And I agree before trying something it is prudent to ask on the forum if others have done so successfully. Many variables to consider but worth the effort!


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> And I'd rather stay away from Ebay.



If you want to avoid Ebay, there are 2 good tube shops in Germany:
1. https://btb-elektronik.de/
2. http://www.jacmusic.com/html/order/!jacmusic-pricelist.pdf


----------



## Deleeh

Maybe I'll try out this spherical shape from Ps vane sometime.
They look kind of chic.
I think I saw them yesterday for the Euforia.

The one address you gave me is an hour away by car.
It might be worth going there to Corona. thanks for the tip.😉✌️

What I didn't quite understand was, what is the difference between the power and driver tubes when you replace them "in voltage"?

I mean I would install a set of Kt 66 with the Russian ones from the Ps Gold set from Feliks?
What would that do?


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 5, 2021)

Hi guys...thought it was about time I stuck my nose in...don't have so much spare time for threads these days alas! 

Firstly, glad to see folks are helping @Deleeh through the maze (minefield?!!) of tubedom...good work guys. And by the way D, didn't quite get your last question re. KT66 and PsVane golds...the 66s would be a combined current draw of 2.54A, that of the PsVanes 1.2A. So using the 66s as drivers to _configured-for_ powers (5A combined) - would unfortunately be taking the total over 7A...not advised! But with KT88s as powers, the total of 5.74A should be OK.

And as for ebay... with care, patience and perseverance there are indeed 'bargains' to be had. Especially if you get lucky, while others are asleep lol!! Reputable tube outlets are (usually) a safer bet of course, but their prices are often very (too?) high IMO. There are honest, genuine ebayers out there and my own best bags have (nearly) always been from there. Close scrutiny of their descriptions (and claims!) will often give a good clue as to their sincerity, and remember, ebay has very good buyer protection in case of problem purchases. Some may state "No returns" on their listing, but that *only* refers to items simply not liked....if there's a hint of something not right - whatever the purchase - you can return it as 'faulty', regardless of whether the seller states "it's working/OK". It's the condition _you_ find it in that counts. And re. tubes, they might sometimes need the pins cleaning, and preferably _*before*_ you put them in your amp! If there's still something amiss, so long as you give full description of the issue and any remedy tried in the return ebay message, ebay will most likely step in in your favour if the seller proves difficult. But keep your message calm, clear, factual and polite...this will seal your sincerity in ebay's eyes. I personally have found this elicits a very prompt and successful outcome in one's favour .

And @connieflyer ...so sorry to hear of the GU50 of mine's problem. Fortunately I still had a spare GU50 socket and a new base left over, so I've made a new adapter for a GU50 you have...winging its way to you as we speak! And testing it proved very interesting, confirming once more its superb merits...and more besides!
Firstly, driven by 2x PsVane CV181 TIIs and with a GEC 6080 as power partner, I had forgotten just how good the PsVanes can sound....almost as good as the Valvo EL11s lol. But as usual, much depends on the rest of the system and especially the power tubes used....they certainly shone with the GEC/GU50 combo. But the biggest surprise came when I put in the reissue Genalex Gold Lion KT88s *as drivers*. I know the 88s don't always seem to perform so well in this role, but with said powers they sounded tremendous...at about 11 o'clock volume setting with the HD650s (didn't have time to try the Empyreans unfortunately). Trouble is of course, the GEC 6080 can be even more rare and expensive than the Mullard version, and which just proves the GU50's pedigree, being able to match the GEC at a tiny fraction of its cost!! And I was once again surprised at how well the (single) GU50 mated with the GEC in performance...(you can imagine how pleased I was with the _*dualled*_ GU50/GEC KT88 (or, rather, its top anode TT21/22 versions) power combos, this particular GEC even outperforming the 6080!).

Ah well, this is becoming yet another of my interminable tomes, so my latest personal findings/ views on the less-than-optimal value of rapid A/Bing or initial assessment of equipment performance (including tubes) will have to wait for another time. But suffice to say they have overturned my previous beliefs, not to mention 'accepted wisdom' IMHO lol.

CHEERS and best wishes to you all...CJ


----------



## elrey

So, I just got the Euforia... used (previously owned by a member here). Now I understand


----------



## connieflyer

Hello H, after your email, swapped out the El 11 mesh plates for a pair of KT88's and you are correct. They sound all most the same.  In fact I am favoring the KT88's for now.  Will have to try the KT66, and KT77's also.  Unfortuneatly the tubes that started too make the popping sound was one to the last pair I got from you.  These had their sockets rewired to 6sn7 config. Do not know which one was failing as did not want to wait to find out, just pulled them both.  Will have to find one more socket to pair with the one you sent. Hope you  are in musical heaven with the new equipment, sounds like you are.  Great find., Don


----------



## hypnos1

elrey said:


> So, I just got the Euforia... used (previously owned by a member here). Now I understand



Well done elrey...you're in for a fun ride!  All you need to do now is plough through several hundred thread pages and you're all set...if you haven't already lol ...GOOD LUCK!...and ENJOY!


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 6, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> Hello H, after your email, swapped out the El 11 mesh plates for a pair of KT88's and you are correct. They sound all most the same.  In fact I am favoring the KT88's for now.  Will have to try the KT66, and KT77's also.  Unfortuneatly the tubes that started too make the popping sound was one to the last pair I got from you.  These had their sockets rewired to 6sn7 config. Do not know which one was failing as did not want to wait to find out, just pulled them both.  Will have to find one more socket to pair with the one you sent. Hope you  are in musical heaven with the new equipment, sounds like you are.  Great find., Don



Hi D...sorry, wouldn't be able to guess which tube is on the blink, but if just 'popping' and with nothing nastier at the moment, I'm sure a (quick!) process of elimination should pinpoint the culprit without too much problem/danger lol . And I'm afraid you won't find an adapter anywhere to match the look of mine alas!... GOOD LUCK!

Glad you like the Gold Lion KT88s as drivers to the GU50s...the latter powers like them much more than the GLs as power! But at 1.6A each heater current draw, it's a real shame that folks can't use them to drive power tubes of the GEC/Mullard 6080 (2.5A each) pedigree...certainly surprised me. And the same goes for the lower draw of the KT66 and 77...the total is still too high for safety. This is where, as @mordy touched on recently, using an external heater power supply for some of the tubes (as with the GU50) opens up a whole new world of possibilities...but yes, only for those happy with a bit of DIY and perhaps not quite as neat a setup lol!

And yo, have finally reached as close to audio nirvana as I'm ever likely to, short of finding that pot of gold at the end of a rainbow...(someone always seems to beat me to it lol!! ). And that final (giant!) step towards Heaven was certainly courtesy of the Antipodes DX streamer/server/player...not cheap, even secondhand, but a much bigger leap than that from the Chord m-scaler as partner to the TT2. And confirms (to me) the vital importance of _source_ in one's system...CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi guys...thought it was about time I stuck my nose in...don't have so much spare time for threads these days alas!
> 
> Firstly, glad to see folks are helping @Deleeh through the maze (minefield?!!) of tubedom...good work guys. And by the way D, didn't quite get your last question re. KT66 and PsVane golds...the 66s would be a combined current draw of 2.54A, that of the PsVanes 1.2A. So using the 66s as drivers to _configured-for_ powers (5A combined) - would unfortunately be taking the total over 7A...not advised! But with KT88s as powers, the total of 5.74A should be OK.
> 
> ...


It's a treat when you visit your old neighborhood, @hypnos1. I learned a lot from you here. Stay well good sir.


----------



## connieflyer (Mar 6, 2021)

Well H, I had to try the quad GU50's with a pair of KT77's as drivers, and I must say I prefer these to the the KT88's as drivers.  I have always liked the El 34tubes, had these in my old Fisher 400 amp, many years ago.  I am liking these the best so far. Even better than my El 11 mesh plates, I was surprised at that. Will have to try the KT 66's also just to make sure. A little more bass, and resolution is slightly better.


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Hi D...sorry, wouldn't be able to guess which tube is on the blink, but if just 'popping' and with nothing nastier at the moment, I'm sure a (quick!) process of elimination should pinpoint the culprit without too much problem/danger lol . And I'm afraid you won't find an adapter anywhere to match the look of mine alas!... GOOD LUCK!
> 
> Glad you like the Gold Lion KT88s as drivers to the GU50s...the latter powers like them much more than the GLs as power! But at 1.6A each heater current draw, it's a real shame that folks can't use them to drive power tubes of the GEC/Mullard 6080 (2.5A each) pedigree...certainly surprised me. And the same goes for the lower draw of the KT66 and 77...the total is still too high for safety. This is where, as @mordy touched on recently, using an external heater power supply for some of the tubes (as with the GU50) opens up a whole new world of possibilities...but yes, only for those happy with a bit of DIY and perhaps not quite as neat a setup lol!
> 
> And yo, have finally reached as close to audio nirvana as I'm ever likely to, short of finding that pot of gold at the end of a rainbow...(someone always seems to beat me to it lol!! ). And that final (giant!) step towards Heaven was certainly courtesy of the Antipodes DX streamer/server/player...not cheap, even secondhand, but a much bigger leap than that from the Chord m-scaler as partner to the TT2. And confirms (to me) the vital importance of _source_ in one's system...CJ


_And that final (giant!) step_....

*Just remember,* *IT NEVER ENDS!*


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> It's a treat when you visit your old neighborhood, @hypnos1. I learned a lot from you here. Stay well good sir.



Thanks LW...and for not (hopefully! ) minding my tendency to ramble somewhat...unlike a certain other thread I no longer bother with (strike a _chord?!!_ ).
I do miss the camaraderie of my old stomping grounds...years I shall treasure always. Life (and health) changes have much to answer for!! But I do enjoy keeping an eye open here in F-A land and butting in now and again....even if it does have me missing my time with tubes lol! 

And am glad my own experiences/advice received from knowledgeable enthusiasts/research/_struggles(?!)_ have been of some help to others along the way. 
May I wish you also - and all you good folks - _"live long and prosper"_...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Well H, I had to try the quad GU50's with a pair of KT77's as drivers, and I must say I prefer these to the the KT88's as drivers.  I have always liked the El 34tubes, had these in my old Fisher 400 amp, many years ago.  I am liking these the best so far. Even better than my El 11 mesh plates, I was surprised at that. Will have to try the KT 66's also just to make sure. A little more bass, and resolution is slightly better.



Yo cf...the 77 certainly seems to have the edge over the EL34 in many folks' eyes. And an even bigger debate vs the KT88 lol! ...ah, the joys/rivalry/vagaries of tubedom!!  "A little more bass" you find? Perhaps my GEC 6080 was beefing up the partnering GU50 in my trial, 'cos there was more than enough for me ...It's a shame I never got to try the 77, but am glad you're finding it performing so well. It should be interesting to see how you find the KT66 comparing once more D. But remember...best do so over a _long_ period of time with each tube being compared. The more I look into the brain's interpretation of the hearing response (psychoacoustics), the more I realise how difficult it is to gain a full and accurate assessment of just what enters our ears lol! I'll expand on that a bit later...y'all have been warned!!...BFN


----------



## connieflyer

I have compared the three KT tubes by Genelax in the past with different drivers, and they always came out the same to one degree or another.  KT77, first KT88 second, and last the KT66. The KT66 has a nice sound, perhaps too nice. Very polite, while the KT88 was more upfront, a little more powerful and more in your face. The KT77 is a different animal. It is based on the EL34, that did most things very well. The KT77 was designed to mimic this, and add a little more centered sound. Vocals are center stage, and the bass is more clearly defined.The old Fischer amp I had, this was back in the 1970's when it was still owned by Fischer itself, before it sold off and became just another far eastern mass marketer.  British don't you just know! Biggest mistake of my musical journey was selling that off back when the state of the art Pioneer TOTL separates came on the scene. I was pleasantly surprised when I tried the KT88 mated to the quad of GU 50's. After one day I could see this was the path I wanted to be on.  Had to try the KT77 right away because of my past tube rolling, and it was obvious right from the start that the KT77 was better but will try the KT66 just to be fair. Of course, this is my opinion, and with my system.  H, you have given my some new ideas about the quad adapters, and here I thought I was through with this!  Thank you.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I have compared the three KT tubes by Genelax in the past with different drivers, and they always came out the same to one degree or another.  KT77, first KT88 second, and last the KT66. The KT66 has a nice sound, perhaps too nice. Very polite, while the KT88 was more upfront, a little more powerful and more in your face. The KT77 is a different animal. It is based on the EL34, that did most things very well. The KT77 was designed to mimic this, and add a little more centered sound. Vocals are center stage, and the bass is more clearly defined.The old Fischer amp I had, this was back in the 1970's when it was still owned by Fischer itself, before it sold off and became just another far eastern mass marketer.  British don't you just know! Biggest mistake of my musical journey was selling that off back when the state of the art Pioneer TOTL separates came on the scene. I was pleasantly surprised when I tried the KT88 mated to the quad of GU 50's. After one day I could see this was the path I wanted to be on.  Had to try the KT77 right away because of my past tube rolling, and it was obvious right from the start that the KT77 was better but will try the KT66 just to be fair. Of course, this is my opinion, and with my system.  H, you have given my some new ideas about the quad adapters, and here I thought I was through with this!  Thank you.



Well cf, I'm wishing even more now that I'd tried the KT77 myself! But hey ho, that darned rabbit hole was just getting too big for me lol...shame!! And there were you also, thinking you'd finished experimenting . I'm wondering how the _original_ GEC KT77 would sound...the original GEC KT88 certainly outshines the reissue versions!  HAPPY EXPERIMENTING D...(well, the chores can wait after all, no?!!)...BFN


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> _And that final (giant!) step_....
> 
> *Just remember,* *IT NEVER ENDS!*



Come on mordy, give us a break lol!! ...are you trying to shatter my long sought after illusions of restful peace? 

However, I'm pretty sure that with my current Chord combo (not to mention my final DIY cables that would cost a fortune commercially!), the Antipodes DX has confirmed that I would have to rob a bank (or 2!) for undoubtedly small gains only even. And in the tube world, it would surely need to be something in the stratosphere...perhaps something like F-A's flagship behemoth still under development, with completely new and upgraded to the hilt circuitry, components, trafos etc. etc.? And so I shall remain blissfully ignorant of just what _might_ be out there to tempt me......CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> _And that final (giant!) step_....
> 
> *Just remember,* *IT NEVER ENDS!*


Just think...after this life, in heaven there is gear and tubes / valves aplenty (WE 421a, GEC 6AS7G, Brimar 5U4G...😄) while in hell there is all that but no electricity...👹


----------



## connieflyer

Well, in that case, I had better roll tubes and listen even more!


----------



## hypnos1

OK guys, while I'm here at the keyboard for a spell, permit me to bend your ears with the musings I promised on how our wonderful (wonderfully deceptive?) brains can turn what we hear into a minefield...especially when assessing our music equipment, particularly _tubes._

Like most folks I suspect, I'd always thought rapid A/Bing to be best for comparisons, along with immediate response to the sound. But further reading and review of past experiences have changed my views quite dramatically when trying to get a fully accurate assessment of complex music pieces especially...highlighted also by my move from the Naim music source to the Antipodes DX.

We all know the need for sufficient _time_ when assessing any new equipment/tubes, but this isn't the only important factor...in (very) short :

1. With immediately apparent differences, such as in bass/treble response and _general_ soundstage, it appears the brain will focus mostly at first on these and much less on other aspects of what's being heard, especially when relating to one's particular preferences! And when A/Bing items, especially for intense prolonged periods, the added pressure just makes this even worse...with hearing overload and subsequent brain 'burnout' . Thus, although good for noticing _obvious_ differences, we're only getting a limited 'picture' of the whole. 

2. I myself found such rapid comparisons very good indeed for also highlighting differences such as in tonal range and especially more subtle overtones/harmonics... but my biggest, and most indicative/revealing surprise came when assessing my new source, ie. _*not*_ immediately, even with extended (comparison) listening sessions, but when revisiting test pieces I've heard 100s of times..._but not for a while _and not in pressured 'analysis mode', but fully 'rested'. This time, the immediate experience was one of a much fuller picture of the piece as a whole, most notably how all the different elements in a _good_ recording are placed within the soundstage, with clearer separation, better imaging/focus and an overall more polished presentation.
This would explain why sometimes we can go back to something we thought long since superceded, but then be surprised at just how good it is lol!

In summary therefore, I can only suggest that when assessing _any_ equipment we bear these points in mind and try to take into account more the possibly very misleading effect of _personal preferences!_ Also, as mentioned, I find the whole process more accurate not only by listening to material one knows intimately (of course!), but also giving the brain _many_ hours' acclimatising to said new item _exclusively_ and _before_ revisiting a very familiar piece _not too recently heard_... and in a 'rested' state. 

Hence I personally now look upon even 'professional' reviews of equipment with more scepticism than ever before! ...but then, I'm also getting older by the day lol ...HAPPY LISTENING folks!


----------



## incredulousity (Mar 7, 2021)

I’m really liking this combination. I have 88s and 66s too, which I’ll try at some point. Also, I have some externally powered 6SN7/6AS7 socket savers and PS coming, to allow using bigger combinations of my non-ГУ50 tubes. Thanks @Deyan!

Is there any reason why no one runs the socket doublers for the drivers? What are we really doing when we run same or mixed tubes in parallel using the doublers. Is there a rational way to approach this? Also, why are some tubes considered not useable for drivers,   i.e. TS 5998? How can one guess from published specs?


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> OK guys, while I'm here at the keyboard for a spell, permit me to bend your ears with the musings I promised on how our wonderful (wonderfully deceptive?) brains can turn what we hear into a minefield...especially when assessing our music equipment, particularly _tubes._
> 
> Like most folks I suspect, I'd always thought rapid A/Bing to be best for comparisons, along with immediate response to the sound. But further reading and review of past experiences have changed my views quite dramatically when trying to get a fully accurate assessment of complex music pieces especially...highlighted also by my move from the Naim music source to the Antipodes DX.
> 
> ...


Agree with everything you say - my experience has been that it takes a l o n g time to really get the hang of the sound of a certain tube combination. I marvel at the people who claim that they "get' the sound of a tube within a couple of minutes of listening and then proceed to rapidly cycle through a dozen tubes and make comparisons of the sound.
As far as I am concerned, you may need at least 1/2 hour for the tubes to warm up and stabilize. Add to that that new tubes change their sound over sometimes numerous hours. As you mention, first impressions may be predicated on "new" details, camouflaging subtle details that emerge in long term listening. And these elements can make or break it - especially in terms of listening fatigue or exhilaration.


----------



## jonathan c

connieflyer said:


> Well, in that case, I had better roll tubes and listen even more!


👹👍....


----------



## hypnos1

incredulousity said:


> I’m really liking this combination. I have 88s and 66s too, which I’ll try at some point. Also, I have some externally powered 6SN7/6AS7 socket savers and PS coming, to allow using bigger combinations of my non-ГУ50 tubes. Thanks @Deyan!
> 
> Is there any reason why no one runs the socket doublers for the drivers? What are we really doing when we run same or mixed tubes in parallel using the doublers. Is there a rational way to approach this? Also, why are some tubes considered not useable for drivers,   i.e. TS 5998? How can one guess from published specs?



WOW!...and WELL DONE incredulousity. Congrats to you on your enterprising spirit, and to @Deyan for making it possible.

Glad to see that I and @connieflyer are now not the only ones to appreciate the merits of this ridiculously cheap Russian Military tube...and things can only get even better of course with the _much_ further burn-in time needed for Russian militaries especially lol! And if those double adapters are configured for the 6AS7G, you might find it interesting to try partnering a GU50 with something like a Mullard 6080 if the chance arises...wallet permitting!! But much further down the road just yet I recommend.

Re. multiple drivers, it appears more benefit comes from doubling up the powers, so there's not much info around on that I'm afraid. And re. using power tubes like the 5998 as drivers, their parameters are usually quite different and not suitable. Different bias requirements and voltage, impedance and current outputs can create real problems. Having said that, some that are classed as 'power/output' tubes, like the EL11; ECC31 (NR73); KTxx have proved to not only be safe but actually perform extremely well as drivers. But I don't really recommend others taking the chances I risked experimenting with such alternatives...apart from those that have indeed proved OK here!! I'm afraid published specs don't always indicate exactly how tube combinations will perform...it's often trial and error...
Good luck with your own (safe) experimentations...but get to know your current setup well beforehand...CJ


----------



## incredulousity

Also, I added a Furman Elite-20 PFi. My power here is pretty good, but I noticed the usually touted improvements in soundstage/ambience/micro detail, with both tube and solid state stuff. Worth the investment, especially since I got the unit at a good discount. Thanks to all who recommended it and it’s siblings, long ago, in this thread.


----------



## hypnos1

incredulousity said:


> Also, I added a Furman Elite-20 PFi. My power here is pretty good, but I noticed the usually touted improvements in soundstage/ambience/micro detail, with both tube and solid state stuff. Worth the investment, especially since I got the unit at a good discount. Thanks to all who recommended it and it’s siblings, long ago, in this thread.



Yes indeed iy...for a long time now I've tried to convince often sceptical folks about the benefits of conditioning/filtering one's mains supply. Just because there may not be any _obvious_ 'problem' with one's own, it will always be carrying a certain amount of 'distortion' that can sometimes have a much more negative effect upon sensitive hifi equipment especially than ever realised. And not only from further back down the supply line but from one's own local environment...mobile/cordless 'phones; routers; 'fridges/aircon/central heating electronics etc. etc., and from which no-one is immune lol! Here in the UK I personally went for an AirlinkTransformers ASF3000 Balanced Mains Conditioner with Avery Magnetics Advanced Filter System...not very pretty but does an amazing job. Then @connieflyer went for a Furman in the US and was mighty pleased with his...and much prettier than my AT lol!! And fortunately others too have enjoyed the benefits such animals can bring, especially when carried via the best cables one can manage...(and this is where a bit of DIY really comes into its own...but that's another story  )....CJ


----------



## jonathan c

incredulousity said:


> Also, I added a Furman Elite-20 PFi. My power here is pretty good, but I noticed the usually touted improvements in soundstage/ambience/micro detail, with both tube and solid state stuff. Worth the investment, especially since I got the unit at a good discount. Thanks to all who recommended it and it’s siblings, long ago, in this thread.


👍👍 Having the Furman (in my case, the Elite-15i) seems to reduce the “workload” of my headphone system in dealing with power vagaries. The music comes through much closer to unadorned...


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> WOW!...and WELL DONE incredulousity. Congrats to you on your enterprising spirit, and to @Deyan for making it possible.
> 
> Glad to see that I and @connieflyer are now not the only ones to appreciate the merits of this ridiculously cheap Russian Military tube...and things can only get even better of course with the _much_ further burn-in time needed for Russian militaries especially lol! And if those double adapters are configured for the 6AS7G, you might find it interesting to try partnering a GU50 with something like a Mullard 6080 if the chance arises...wallet permitting!! But much further down the road just yet I recommend.
> 
> ...



Still running GU50'S H1 and sounding so much better since I attached Chord TT. The low volume issue I encountered is no more.


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Still running GU50'S H1 and sounding so much better since I attached Chord TT. The low volume issue I encountered is no more.



Hi bt...great to hear from you, and that you're liking the GU50s even more now. These tubes do cry out for top notch accompaniments, upping their game with each and every upgrade... and the Chord DACs/amps' precision, clarity and detail mastery fit the bill perfectly IMHO lol  . You're now pretty well at my final stage with Euforia, and a setup that I suspect is hard to beat...2x GU50s driving 2 more as powers dualled with (in my case) a GEC TT21 & a 12V TT22...quite stunning! Glad to hear also that volume level is improved...source and DAC output can make quite a difference in how tube amps perform especially. I wish you continued happy listening...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

Hi H1.  Been busy over the last few months building up a good stock of GEC's in my case TT22's which are not so sort after and bargains can and have been found. Yes in a very happy place and thanks to you.👌


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi H1.  Been busy over the last few months building up a good stock of GEC's in my case TT22's which are not so sort after and bargains can and have been found. Yes in a very happy place and thanks to you.👌



Wow bt...that's what I call _very_ enterprising lol!  And yes indeed, when you look at the average eye-watering price for a GEC KT88, the TT22 can be a super bargain...especially when it, like its TT21 sibling are often regarded as having a slight edge over the 88. Well done and no wonder you're a happy chappie .


----------



## incredulousity

Rolling on… I think this will be the end, until I get the powered socket savers that allow me to use stock compatible tubes with external heater current.


----------



## connieflyer

I liked the quad GU 50 with the KT88, but found the KT 66 and the KT77 more to my liking.  Have you considered removing the "hats" from the GU50's?


----------



## incredulousity

connieflyer said:


> I liked the quad GU 50 with the KT88, but found the KT 66 and the KT77 more to my liking.  Have you considered removing the "hats" from the GU50's?



I have considered it. Is it easy and safe? I assume you mean just the little black knobs. I think all the KTs sound great as drivers. They are all different enough from each other to be fun. It truly feels like 3 amps. 

I haven’t tried ГУ50 as drivers to the four as powers, yet.


----------



## hypnos1 (Mar 10, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> Rolling on… I think this will be the end, until I get the powered socket savers that allow me to use stock compatible tubes with external heater current.



Looking  - and sounding! - good iy. And yes indeed, you must be very close to what I personally regard as the best performance you're ever likely to squeeze out of Euforia...assuming you're happy with a well-balanced/'true' reproduction of the recording as opposed to classic tube 'coloring'/FR sector emphasis - ie. *distortion!!* 

And re. stock compatible tubes, I suspect you'll need something really special to match the GU50s, either as driver _or_ power...and likely to be very expensive alas! As for powers, I reckon they would need to be something like the Mullard (or preferably the GEC) 6080 - partnering a GU50, which wouldn't need external heater power supply if the drivers were also ext'l pwr'd GU50s lol!  Good luck whatever you choose, and please keep us informed as to progress. Fortunate indeed you are to reach a stage that has taken many of us _years_ to reach ...CJ


incredulousity said:


> I have considered it. Is it easy and safe? I assume you mean just the little black knobs. I think all the KTs sound great as drivers. They are all different enough from each other to be fun. It truly feels like 3 amps.
> 
> I haven’t tried ГУ50 as drivers to the four as powers, yet.



Yes - easy and safe...so long as you take care when prising off the aluminium cap. I showed my own approach on the youtube video I made (about 13 mins into) :
...CHEERS!


----------



## connieflyer

Hello H, you beat me to it as usual.  Great info in this video. You are the master!


----------



## connieflyer

barontan2418 said:


> That's a configuration I've used, back row of GU50'S driven by EL11 and very good it is. Just wondering how you found the volume when using your 6 pack of GU50'S. I've been trying to get more head room using various combinations as having four tubes in the back row has meant my being at 14:00 to 15:00 when playing classical music.


Sorry for the late reply, with the six pack of gu 50s the volume was less then with the e l 11 mesh plate if you substitute the el11 for the kt66, kt77 or the kt88 the volume will increase considerably. I'm finding that the kt66 sounds very good with the quad of gu 50s.


----------



## barontan2418

Thanks c.f.. Happily the volume issue I described is no more. I purchased a second hand Chord TT and I'm now able to get a far higher volume level and all the head room I need. I'm able now to utilise my favourite combination of 2 x GU50's driving the four tube combo of 2 x GU50's + 2 x GEC KT88's (TT 22). Have been using my HD650  on Euphoria through Hugo TT dac for all but classical which I find more enjoyable on the Hugo TT using HD800.


----------



## connieflyer

I always like the 6:50. For most of the music I listen to the Sennheiser 800 or the Oppo pm-1 I find that those two are pretty much take me to where I need to go. Sounds like you've got everything just about the way you need it, and I hope you have many many happy hours listening to your equipment and to the music of course good luck


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> I always like the 6:50. For most of the music I listen to the Sennheiser 800 or the Oppo pm-1 I find that those two are pretty much take me to where I need to go. Sounds like you've got everything just about the way you need it, and I hope you have many many happy hours listening to your equipment and to the music of course good luck



Yes cf I'm finally in a happy place. Thanks and happy listening to you.


----------



## Deceneu808

Hey guys, I was just about to pull the trigger on the Elise amp then I saw this is designed to work with planar ? I just bought a pair of LCD-X. How would it pair ?


----------



## Deleeh

Deceneu808 said:


> Hey guys, I was just about to pull the trigger on the Elise amp then I saw this is designed to work with planar ? I just bought a pair of LCD-X. How would it pair ?


Hello,
For me, with the Lcd2c, there is too little bass on the Euforia.
I fixed it by using an equalizer to make it more powerful.
And I am satisfied with it.
In principle, Planar headphones also work, but the question is whether someone likes it.
For me personally, they sound better now, even in the mids and highs.


----------



## omoanya

connieflyer said:


> 6080'S always ran the hottest on my amp.  The 5998's ran it warm but not hot.  Now running the Gold Lion KT77 as drivers and Gold Lion KT88's in power position and am extremely pleased with the results.  I started with the quad of KT 88's and went to 7581A's as drivers, which had a great sound as well.  Now running the KT77's as drivers, so far this is the best I have heard from my amp. Quad of KT66's were also quite good. Using them as Pre amp out really warms up the Anthem amp.  Also uses less volume than the 7581A's.  Not quite as bright. Bass is a little stronger also.


Hi @connieflyer  - I just tried running the gold Lion 77/88 combo you mentioned above but I am getting very loud buzzing on my Euphoria so I took them out. Do you have any ideas I could try?  I am using adapters from Deyan.  - thanks in advance -Omo


----------



## barontan2418

omoanya said:


> Hi @connieflyer  - I just tried running the gold Lion 77/88 combo you mentioned above but I am getting very loud buzzing on my Euphoria so I took them out. Do you have any ideas I could try?  I am using adapters from Deyan.  - thanks in advance -Omo


You could try running 2 regular drivers not needing adapters and then using adapters and KT tubes in the power position running  through a combination of setups changing adapters and tubes to see if any one tube or adapter stands out as faulty.


----------



## omoanya

Thank you @barontan2418 - I just did that - and after rotating all the tubes I went back to the 77/88 combo and they seem to work!  Maybe some loose seating or something - not sure what it was but I have 77/88 both in now and it sounds great, just going to run them for a little while see if they burn in a little.
Thanks!


----------



## incredulousity (Mar 19, 2021)

I’m liking KT66 driving dual GU50/KT88 combination in Euforia AE.

I will try the KT77 and KT88 as drivers as well, but this is a great combination for a while. I like it better than GU50 as drivers. My other KT88s are matched to the powers I’m using, but new, so will require break in.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
anyone knows how good it is the Psvane 6SN7-BE Vacuum Tube ?


----------



## branislav

Q) How much tube rolling can one do on Euforia?
A) 600 (and counting) pages worth of...


----------



## mordy

branislav said:


> Q) How much tube rolling can one do on Euforia?
> A) 600 (and counting) pages worth of...


You don't have to read all the pages. As time progressed, people found better and better sounding tube combinations - suggest you start with the last posts and go backwards. It is also important to know, IMHO, that you don't need super expensive tubes for good sound.


----------



## omoanya (Mar 20, 2021)

Ok, tube rolling with Euforia is NOT for the faint of heart lol.  My first roll and I swapped out the stock tubes for gold Lion 77/88 with Deyan adapters - I immediately got a loud buzz - so I rotated all the tubes and got rid of it but now a faint 60hz type hum showed up on Euforia when the power comes on with no input. So I put back the stock tubes and the hum is STILL THERE  - now I'm wondering if I broke Euforia or if somehow coincidentally something happened in my home A/C power to cause it, because she used to be dead quiet.
You all are WAY braver than I am -- I suppose I should have a backup amp if I am going to continue to partake in your dangerous sport.⚡


----------



## incredulousity (Mar 21, 2021)

omoanya said:


> Ok, tube rolling with Euforia is NOT for the faint of heart lol.  My first roll and I swapped out the stock tubes for gold Lion 77/88 with Deyan adapters - I immediately got a loud buzz - so I rotated all the tubes and got rid of it but now a faint 60hz type hum showed up on Euforia when the power comes on with no input. So I put back the stock tubes and the hum is STILL THERE  - now I'm wondering if I broke Euforia or if somehow coincidentally something happened in my home A/C power to cause it, because she used to be dead quiet.
> You all are WAY braver than I am -- I suppose I should have a backup amp if I am going to continue to partake in your dangerous sport.⚡



Hum goes away after a while with stock tubes. Hours, not minutes. Auto-bias seems to take time. some tube rolls may always have some hum, but it usually becomes barely audible, and is not noticeable with music. Loud hum is often a bad connection, dirty pin, etc. Reseat tubes and adapters, clean contacts if necessary. Loud hum can be a bad tube also, as can silence. The more experienced people here may wish to add to this.


----------



## maszynista1987 (Mar 21, 2021)

@omoanya  I also hear a very quiet noise, are you using zmf verite like me ?

I have had 60 Hz noise since purchase , I even sent back the Euphoria to be checked , I bought a power conditioner.... I checked the tubes etc.
Nothing helps .... although this noise is very quiet....


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> anyone knows how good it is the Psvane 6SN7-BE Vacuum Tube ?


No I bought the Psvane 6sn7-SE and they are too big, see picture. Now I am trying the LinLai Elite, no idea if they will fit. (I wait for the mail)


----------



## omoanya

The thing for me is, it did not make any hum at all before I rolled tubes yesterday ...and now it hums even when I replaced the stock set. It is very faint but I hear it.  


maszynista1987 said:


> @omoanya  I also hear a very quiet noise, are you using zmf verite like me ?
> 
> I have had 60 Hz noise since purchase , I even sent back the Euphoria to be checked , I bought a power conditioner.... I checked the tubes etc.
> Nothing helps .... although this noise is very quiet....


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> No I bought the Psvane 6sn7-SE and they are too big, see picture. Now I am trying the LinLai Elite, no idea if they will fit. (I wait for the mail)


Hmm okay,how good is the Sound with the tube do you have?
the Linlai i have see too.And this one
https://linlaiglobal.com/index.php/product/linlai-global-hifi-6sn7-vacuum-tube-single/
 but not sure how good is it and no Datasheet to see.
I think is better as the russian tube from the Ps vane Gold Edition from Feliks.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Hmm okay,how good is the Sound with the tube do you have?
> the Linlai i have see too.And this one
> https://linlaiglobal.com/index.php/product/linlai-global-hifi-6sn7-vacuum-tube-single/
> but not sure how good is it and no Datasheet to see.
> I think is better as the russian tube from the Ps vane Gold Edition from Feliks.


I like the 6sn7-SE but they are not known to be high end. And you need 2 socket savers (from 8- to 8) to lift one tube up. The Linlai Elite is made to reach the level ACME, and there is no Psvane  ACME 6sn7. I hope I can make them fit.


----------



## maszynista1987 (Mar 22, 2021)

Anyone have a problem with silent buzzing? I don't know what I can check further anymore.

I checked the power supply, unplugged all outlets and left only the amplifier plugged in. Bought a power strip with filter and power conditioner, did not help.

Phones, wi-fi and other devices away from the amp.

I sent it back to be checked and at Felix Audio the amp is quiet.

I even disconnected the antenna cables....

The tubes are mounted correctly,  Euphoria 20ye , factory lamps, headphones zmf verite.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

maszynista1987 said:


> Anyone have a problem with silent buzzing? I don't know what I can check further anymore.
> 
> I checked the power supply, unplugged all outlets and left only the amplifier plugged in. Bought a power strip with filter and power conditioner, did not help.
> 
> ...


Hi, I had a small buzzing in both ears, and Feliks had to repair, it was under warranty for free, except for Fedex.


----------



## maszynista1987

At first I thought it was lamp burnout and the buzzing would go away after a while. 
The amplifier was in feliks audio for a few days and they said it was quiet. 
Dac is also ok, because the amplifier hums only when plugged into mains and headphones.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

maszynista1987 said:


> At first I thought it was lamp burnout and the buzzing would go away after a while.
> The amplifier was in feliks audio for a few days and they said it was quiet.
> Dac is also ok, because the amplifier hums only when plugged into mains and headphones.


Unknown problems no doctor can find can drive you rather unhappy


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Check the socket when the fuse from the fuse box is activated.
It can happen that the contacts are oxidised on the cables as well as on the socket.
I once had something like this and stripped the cables and replaced them with a Furutech socket.
The old socket was oxidised and the contacts were painted over with wall paint.

If you have the opportunity, plug the Euforia into another socket to see if it changes or not.

As others have already written, it can also be due to the tubes.
Sometimes you can be unlucky and make a mistake with a new pair.
That's why buying on Ebay is always a thing in itself if you come from there.
Even if there are certainly good offers and functioning tubes.
The same can also happen with dealers.
Sometimes one tube is more sensitive than the other, the same tube in another amplifier may not matter.

If Feliks signs you that everything is okay with your Euforia, then there is usually something wrong with the electronics, or something wrong with the connection. I would always consider the tube as the last thing to go.
Sometimes cables are also responsible for the connection.
Often when the plugs are not rubberised but made of metal, it creates a small magnetic field.
I recently had this happen when I connected the Schiit Loki, the Euforia didn't like it when it was close to it and the Dac.
Experience shows that it's often the little things that are to blame.
As stupid as it sometimes sounds, even the house fuse can cause such things.
And very few electricians know this and laugh at you when you call them, until you ask them and then the aha effect comes.

If you have pets, check to see if the cat or dog hasn't gnawed on it. Here in Germany, it's sometimes strange with the phase if it's not correct, which can also cause this.


----------



## tunes

Has anyone compared the Euforia to the Quicksilver HP amp?


----------



## barontan2418

maszynista1987 said:


> At first I thought it was lamp burnout and the buzzing would go away after a while.
> The amplifier was in feliks audio for a few days and they said it was quiet.
> Dac is also ok, because the amplifier hums only hen plugged into mains and headphones.


Hi maszynista.
Hope things are getting better re hum. I've found it a help in the past to use a RCA to 3.5 adapter to test the amp directly circumventing all other hardware and cables. Simply attach DAP and connect up to amp inputs. And although difficult in today's situation, try testing from a different premises perhaps work if possible as it is always possible your home supply could cause an issue. Hope things get better soon.
Regards
Mick.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi I bought the LinLai Elite 6sn7 but they are too big for the Euforia, one tube needed 2 socket savers to lift it and make them fit. One was broken in the mail, could not listen.


----------



## Deleeh

Oh man that's annoying.
I once asked Lin Lai about the tubes for the Euforia and they are not familiar with him and have forwarded my request to a dealer from America.
I just hope it's not upscale audio.
I am curious what they will say.
It's a bit of a shame that Lin lai isn't necessarily interested in where the tubes will be used later.
Will have to rely on dealer enquiries and reviews.

Alternatively, I have asked Sophia Electric and the tubes will probably not be produced again until next year because there are problems with the glass in procurement.

So it seems that you have to help yourself a bit.
Unfortunately, the market is a bit thin when it comes to tubes for the Euforia.
Most of the tubes Feliks wrote about in the manual are hard to find, and if you do find them, the price is usually hefty.

Woo Audio sells a set of tungsol for $800, certainly justified but who buys that?
Also due to the pandemic, there won't be much change in the near future and one can only hope that Feliks will offer an alternative solution.
Which would certainly be desirable for the end customer.

Do you get the tube replaced by Lin Lai?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Oh man that's annoying.
> I once asked Lin Lai about the tubes for the Euforia and they are not familiar with him and have forwarded my request to a dealer from America.
> I just hope it's not upscale audio.
> I am curious what they will say.
> ...


I wait for answer it was sent by DHL. But two socket savers are not a problem I had them anyway. Gold pin 8-8.


----------



## maszynista1987

Thank you for your help, I will slowly look for a solution.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005...ZYvXOmMDvSEGC-3GI9BoC2m0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

I have another question about the Euforia.
The Ps vane or the 6sn7 Se and what all there lin lai don't make a bad impression.
Since there are hardly any good 6as7g or 6080 tubes on the market, if there are, they are usually very expensive.
I wondered whether it might be possible or whether there might be an adapter from 6as7g to 300b or to the Western electric replicas, which might also be better than the 6as7g.
The output voltage would also fit, I think.
Would that be feasible and possibly also an advantage in terms of sound?
A very good advantage if it were feasible would be that you would then really have very good tubes from Lin lai or Sophia Electric, and you could also put aside the eternal Nos tubes.

Or would it be better to put the question to Feliks?


----------



## mordy

maszynista1987 said:


> Thank you for your help, I will slowly look for a solution.


Old tube audiophile saying: *If they build it, it hums.*


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have another question about the Euforia.
> The Ps vane or the 6sn7 Se and what all there lin lai don't make a bad impression.
> ...


There are many posts about 6AS7 to 6L6 adapters allowing for many new production power tubes to be used. I don't know if same is true for 300B.


----------



## incredulousity

Maybe @Deyan will have an opinion about this.


----------



## Deyan

incredulousity said:


> Maybe @Deyan will have an opinion about this.



About which??


----------



## OctavianH

Deyan said:


> About which??



They want to use 300B in Euforia in the position of 6AS7G which, in my opinion, is not possible.


----------



## Deyan

It has to have external filament supply. Otherwise i don't see a reason why not.


----------



## Deleeh

Hmm I almost thought when I saw that there are only 4 pins on the 300b that you need something extra.
If I am looking for something that is uncomplicated.
Like with the adapter for example.
Plug it in and you're done.
I have adapters from @Deyan here but they are from 6SN7 to Kt 66,77,88.
I don't know if I could also use them in the 6as7g sockets or if I need new adapters.


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> I have adapters from @Deyan here but they are from 6SN7 to Kt 66,77,88.
> I don't know if I could also use them in the 6as7g sockets or if I need new adapters.



You can use the same adapters on the power sockets for KT66/77/88.


----------



## Deleeh (Mar 25, 2021)

Okay thanks i will take a look of tube from 6L6.Hoping it give some nice tubes.

Edit:What you think about this Tube for the Power soclet with the Adapter?
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/6l6gc-str-blackplate-rca-style-tad-premium-selected?c=92
or this one
https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/pages-se-el34?variant=14533753241669


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Okay thanks i will take a look of tube from 6L6.Hoping it give some nice tubes.
> 
> Edit:What you think about this Tube for the Power soclet with the Adapter?
> https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/6l6gc-str-blackplate-rca-style-tad-premium-selected?c=92
> ...


Haven't tried either but I've been very interested in the Sophia's, both their KT88 and EL34 whcih as I understand it should both work with Deyan's adapters.

Let us know what you decide and would love to hear your impressions, @Deleeh.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have decided for myself that I will not do the conversion at the moment.
Also because I still have warranty on it, otherwise it would be something else.
I also talked to Feliks again about it and they know that the community uses the El34 and KTxx and it is not really recommended.
I'm sure I realised too late that the 6as7g is dying out and the market has become quite thin and sometimes utopian prices are charged.
If I ever buy a tube amp again, I will take a closer look and probably wouldn't have bought the Euforia if I had known.

Possibly and what I hope is that Feliks will offer a conversion kit for the 6as7g socket at some point.
Personally, I would leave the 6Sn7 socket as there are now quite good alternatives.

At the moment I am struggling with myself.
With the 6Sn7 tubes, I'm debating whether to swap the Ps Vane Mk2 for the Sophia Electric 6SN7 if I can get hold of it, or if not, the new Lin Lai E-6Sn7 or the Globe from Shunang.
All three are supposed to be even better than the Ps Vane.
With the Chinese tubes, you would definitely need an adapter to increase the power, and I can't find a good one in decent quality.
I tend to expect the most from the Sophia, which has very good running characteristics and is supposed to be quite close to the Mullard that used to exist.
I think that would definitely be my taste, but it's also the most expensive of the 3 sets.


----------



## swissheadphonelover

This bfly PURE-Tube Absorber Set gives me a very significant improvement for my Euforia. 
More open and deeper soundstage, more defined and deeper low-end, more and better refined details and a more natural presentation in general for the Verité Open and the HD800s. How big the effect is certainly depends on the desk or shelf where the Euforia is placed. It shows me clearly that the place where my Euforia sits was not ideal at all.


----------



## LoryWiv (Mar 29, 2021)

swissheadphonelover said:


> This bfly PURE-Tube Absorber Set gives me a very significant improvement for my Euforia.
> More open and deeper soundstage, more defined and deeper low-end, more and better refined details and a more natural presentation in general for the Verité Open and the HD800s. How big the effect is certainly depends on the desk or shelf where the Euforia is placed. It shows me clearly that the place where my Euforia sits was not ideal at all.


I use *Herbie's Audio Tenderfeet* with Elise. They are less pricey and work well for me. Leaves more cash for tubes.


----------



## Arcayne

After having used the Euforia for the best part of a year with the stock tubes, it felt like the right time to get started with some tube rolling. So I did some research and took some advice to find some worthwhile but inexpensive rolls to try out, and this is the outcome. Here are some impressions! Of course 100% subjective, ymmv. Both sets of tubes have been burned in for 100+ hours. 

DAC used: Schiit Bifrost 2
Headphones used: Meze Empyrean, Sennheiser HD580 Precision, Sennheiser HD660S

*(CBS/6080) CBS 6SN7GTB (Side “D” Getter – Angled “T” plates - Stubby) + Raytheon JAN 6080
Compared to Stock (PsVane CV181 T2 + Svetlana 6N13S)*

Dead silent noise floor, within usable volume range and well beyond
Smoother texture throughout, more liquid sounding
Improved 3D-factor and image tangibility
Less edgy in the transients, better control
Overall this is a safe and well-rounded upgrade over the stock tubes, while mostly staying true to the Euforia’s core sound. I found these tubes on ebay for around $100 total (NOS, unused and platinum matched), and to get such an upgrade for that price makes it an easy recommendation.

*(KT88) Quad Gold Lion KT88 Genelex
Compared to Stock (PsVane CV181 T2 + Svetlana 6N13S)*

Slightly less noisy, humming barely audible on my 660S, not bothersome
Reduced power output, Empyrean feels a bit underdriven
Dryer texture, more crisp and airy
Wider/deeper soundstage, more spacious
Snappier but better controlled transients
This seemed to be a very popular roll among Euforia/Elise owners, so I decided to give it a try. It’s definitely quite a departure from the Euforia’s core sound, and that can be either a good thing or a bad thing. With my Sennheisers, the KT88’s are glorious. Impressively resolving, crisp and spacious. But my Empyrean feels a bit underdriven and sounds a touch bland as a result. Overall, worth a try if your headphones can manage the lower power output and you’re looking for a bit less sweetness and a more airy and resolving sound.

*Preferred rolls per headphone:*
Empyrean : CBS/6080 > Stock > KT88
HD660S : KT88 > CBS/6080 > Stock
HD580 : KT88 > CBS/6080 > Stock


----------



## incredulousity (Mar 30, 2021)

To make Empyrean sound good with KT88/Euforia, you need a DAC that provides high voltage signal over its RCA outputs. I always turn mine up for Empyrean. The dynamics generally don’t need it, though for quiet recordings, I will turn it up for HD800S as well.

I’ve never tried any 6080 variants, but certain evil people have made compelling cases for certain $500 NOS ones.


----------



## Arcayne

incredulousity said:


> To make Empyrean sound good with KT88/Euforia, you need a DAC that provides high voltage signal over its RCA outputs. I always turn mine up for Empyrean. The dynamics generally don’t need it, though for quiet recordings, I will turn it up for HD800S as well.
> 
> I’ve never tried any 6080 variants, but certain evil people have made compelling cases for certain $500 NOS ones.


I have tried using an active preamp to push more voltage through RCA, but the results remain more or less the same. It's alright with most of my music at medium listening levels (~75 dB), but it just lacks that extra bit of push when I'm in the mood for some louder listening and/or some bass-heavy music. It did get a bit better as the tubes burned in the first ~100 hours or so, but I still seem to be hitting that brick wall occasionally where it's just not quite getting me to where I want to be. It definitely depends on the choice of music and the desired listening levels, though. So I can imagine that for some people, it won't be as much of a problem. 

It's unfortunate. I do hear the potential these tubes have, and there are moments of brilliance with the Empyrean for sure, but then I run into a brick wall later on again and that just kinda puts me off. With the 6080's I don't have this issue, so that alone already makes it preferable for me for the Empyrean. Either way, I'm glad I gave this a try, and I'm keeping the KT88's even if only to fully enjoy them with my Senns. At least when I'm in the mood for Empyreans while the KT88's are warmed up, I can still use the Euforia as a preamp into my Jot 2 and have a great time that way. Not quite as good as using them straight from the Euforia with a more powerful set of tubes, but good enough at least to not urge me to go through the "power off - cool down - swap tubes - warm up" ritual. 

Not sure if I'm down to try super expensive tubes yet. The Euforia is my first/only tube amp and this has been my first experience with tube rolling. So over time, I would like to try different (preferably inexpensive) rolls to find out where my preference sweet spot is, and then think about how much I'd be willing to spend to get the best version of that. In the little experience I have now, at least I've learned that you don't need to spend a ton to get great sounding tubes. I've already thoroughly enjoyed the Euforia with its stock tubes over the past year, so I'm not really looking to "fix" anything that is broken, I'm just gradually trying to find out what works for me and what doesn't, and to get a better idea of where I want to go. This thread has been a highly valuable source of information and inspiration, for sure.


----------



## Deleeh

Arcayne said:


> I have tried using an active preamp to push more voltage through RCA, but the results remain more or less the same. It's alright with most of my music at medium listening levels (~75 dB), but it just lacks that extra bit of push when I'm in the mood for some louder listening and/or some bass-heavy music. It did get a bit better as the tubes burned in the first ~100 hours or so, but I still seem to be hitting that brick wall occasionally where it's just not quite getting me to where I want to be. It definitely depends on the choice of music and the desired listening levels, though. So I can imagine that for some people, it won't be as much of a problem.
> 
> It's unfortunate. I do hear the potential these tubes have, and there are moments of brilliance with the Empyrean for sure, but then I run into a brick wall later on again and that just kinda puts me off. With the 6080's I don't have this issue, so that alone already makes it preferable for me for the Empyrean. Either way, I'm glad I gave this a try, and I'm keeping the KT88's even if only to fully enjoy them with my Senns. At least when I'm in the mood for Empyreans while the KT88's are warmed up, I can still use the Euforia as a preamp into my Jot 2 and have a great time that way. Not quite as good as using them straight from the Euforia with a more powerful set of tubes, but good enough at least to not urge me to go through the "power off - cool down - swap tubes - warm up" ritual.
> 
> Not sure if I'm down to try super expensive tubes yet. The Euforia is my first/only tube amp and this has been my first experience with tube rolling. So over time, I would like to try different (preferably inexpensive) rolls to find out where my preference sweet spot is, and then think about how much I'd be willing to spend to get the best version of that. In the little experience I have now, at least I've learned that you don't need to spend a ton to get great sounding tubes. I've already thoroughly enjoyed the Euforia with its stock tubes over the past year, so I'm not really looking to "fix" anything that is broken, I'm just gradually trying to find out what works for me and what doesn't, and to get a better idea of where I want to go. This thread has been a highly valuable source of information and inspiration, for sure.


Hello,
It is not the tubes or the headphones that are responsible for the bass.
It's the Euforia itself.
The basic sound of the bass is a bit thin when tuned.
This becomes really clear when you plug in the Audeze Lcd2c you actually notice how flat the bass actually is.
Although the Audeze could use more.
This is due, among other things, that the Euforia of the basic sound is very very neutral, but that has been so wanted by Feliks.
Since no tube rolling helps if then only slightly.
When changing from the Russian tube to the Rca 6as7g it was somewhat better and more musical, I feel at least so.
But still thin just in the bass.

Remedy has created for me an equalizer in which I have raised the bass it was then much better.
Meanwhile, I have it well under control and could also equalize two things on it where Propotional seen have disturbed.
It would certainly be a corner better if there was a manufacturer who manufactures a reasonable 6as7g tube and sells at a reasonable price.
That would be a welcome change for the overall market in the tube family.
And would curb the vultures on the Nos market a bit.
I'm happy with the Euforia but the market for 6as7g tubes is really really bad.
The tubes that are offered are partly mediocre and are mostly sold at the high price and is not justified.
That's why it would be good if there was a manufacturer who would make the 6as7g or a We421A again that can be seen.
For the 6Sn7, on the other hand, it looks better there are 2-3 manufacturers and they can be seen.The price is okay for the set.


----------



## incredulousity

I complain less about the bass, perhaps because I have Euforia AE, which delivers excellent bass, as long as I am not underpowering the headphones, which is most likely with Empyrean in my case, with quieter recordings. On HD800S and Verité Open, I sometimes have more bass than I want, and it is clean and punchy. I agree with the premise here that Euforia/AE is good, but not optimal, for driving Empyrean.


----------



## Arcayne

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> It is not the tubes or the headphones that are responsible for the bass.
> It's the Euforia itself.
> The basic sound of the bass is a bit thin when tuned.
> ...


Hiya, I understand your concerns, but I'd like to point out that this isn't in the slightest relatable to my own experience, likely because we use vastly different gear alongside the Euforia, and we have different preferences/expectations/values affecting how we judge what we hear. 

With the 6N13S and 6080 tubes, the bass performance from the Euforia with my Empyrean is one of the things I especially adore with the Euforia. Yes, it's not emphasized, which is a good thing for me because the Empyrean doesn't need a bass boost. But it's loosened up just enough to where the bass sounds fuller, more impactful and with a satisfying grunt to it, while still being controlled well enough to maintain fine textures and proper dynamic behavior in the bass. 

But with the quad KT88s, the lower power output resulted in a lesser ability for the Euforia to maintain that control over the bass at higher volume levels (but still within my comfortable listening levels) with bassier tracks. It starts to stutter and distort and it just doesn't sound good at that point. At lower volume levels, control is more easily maintained. Again, this is only an issue with my Empyrean when using quad KT88's. The Euforia itself isn't the problem for me. 

And regarding your concern for the NOS market depleting; There are still plenty of high quality NOS tubes available on places like ebay from reputable sellers, for very mild prices. Like the CBS 6sn7's and Raytheon 6080's I found for ~$100 total. Those 6sn7's in particular I found to surprisingly be a lot better than the much more expensive (and now discontinued) stock PsVanes.


----------



## Deleeh

Arcayne said:


> Hiya, I understand your concerns, but I'd like to point out that this isn't in the slightest relatable to my own experience, likely because we use vastly different gear alongside the Euforia, and we have different preferences/expectations/values affecting how we judge what we hear.
> 
> With the 6N13S and 6080 tubes, the bass performance from the Euforia with my Empyrean is one of the things I especially adore with the Euforia. Yes, it's not emphasized, which is a good thing for me because the Empyrean doesn't need a bass boost. But it's loosened up just enough to where the bass sounds fuller, more impactful and with a satisfying grunt to it, while still being controlled well enough to maintain fine textures and proper dynamic behavior in the bass.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Yes you are right.
From the basic equipment of the Feliks tubes, the bass is definitely good enough provided that the headphones bring from the house.
That is what the Empyrean should bring.
From there everything is fine.
But as soon as you plug what where neutral or less bass brings with it you notice it audibly out.

If I listen to the Fostex tr xx or Denon D2000 and then go to the Audeze I must first get used to it.
The Audeze is generally not bass-heavy and also does not tolerate overbass.
But on the Euforia is there without Eq Management a problem with time, even jazz sounds for me there not authentic enough.
That could indeed have been better.

In other words, the Euforia needs a headphone that is well tuned in the bass and brings enough.
As well as the Denon D7200 would probably also be a very good option.

With the Kt 88 tubes you also bring the Euforia to its limits performance-wise.
I also think that's why some here in the forum are down to the Kt66 so that still bit reserves are there.
The Euforia is actually not built for such mods if you look at it closely.
But also understandable because in this direction more tube selection prevails.
And there are reasonable high-end forges that manage to make the sound sweeter using their tubes.
I think Feliks will probably take that into account in a Mk3 version if there should be one.
And hopefully provide an upgrade for Mk2 owners.
Is of course wishful thinking on my part, 😁.

I think nevertheless with an Eq one could possibly still readjust with their conversion still something or equalize as well as what  so to speak for the final touch.
Furthermore, such a thing still offers a gain amplification.
Thus, you would have a raised gain without the Euforia additionally load that he as you mentioned when you turn louder starts to distort.

It is better to have a clean Dac signal in the input/output that can be amplified/boosted again on the way before the amplifier.
Then you spare the amplifier which is already at its performance limit a little more controlled without what to "have to give up".

Surely you don't have to break the bank for Nos tubes either.
Your case study shows it.
Less is sometimes more and of course always a matter of luck.
I myself would not spend 500$\€ for a Gec 6as7g or 6080 osram.
It would definitely be better if such tubes were even better represented on the market or would also still be built.Even if it would be a replica.
I have found 6080 Rca on Ebay but are only half as good as the 6080 Mullards and asking 80$ for the piece.This is not justified I think.
And have the 6080 Mullards can still find with any luck for the same price and still new.

This is not okay I think fair price yes but no much money for mediocre to less good tubes.
Just because the genus is rare.

Woo Audio still offers 6as7g tubes for their amplifiers with 400$ the pair.that is unfortunately usury.
It will only get better when the industry does something.
And there I would be willing to pay 200$ for a pair that is clean than a greedy Nos seller.


----------



## connieflyer

When I still used the 6sn7's my favorites still are the 6SN7GT VT-231 JAN SYLVANIA,Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB Tall Bottle Tubes Black Plates , Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass  these always served me well.  The KR's were very strong in the bass.


----------



## Arcayne

connieflyer said:


> When I still used the 6sn7's my favorites still are the 6SN7GT VT-231 JAN SYLVANIA,Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB Tall Bottle Tubes Black Plates , Ken Rad 6SN7GT Black Glass  these always served me well.  The KR's were very strong in the bass.


Noted, will look into these. Thanks. 

Do you (or anyone) happen to know of any potential alternative to quad KT88's that might/will provide a somewhat similar sound, but without as much of a loss in power output? Power being the more important variable, and sound just leaning as much towards that direction as I can get for ideally not too much money..  But I'm open to any suggestions.


----------



## Deleeh

Arcayne said:


> Noted, will look into these. Thanks.
> 
> Do you (or anyone) happen to know of any potential alternative to quad KT88's that might/will provide a somewhat similar sound, but without as much of a loss in power output? Power being the more important variable, and sound just leaning as much towards that direction as I can get for ideally not too much money..  But I'm open to any suggestions.


Hello,
apparently the El34 should also fit if you have the right adapter for it.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Arcayne said:


> *KT88) Quad Gold Lion KT88 Genelex
> Compared to Stock (PsVane CV181 T2 + Svetlana 6N13S)*
> 
> Wider/deeper soundstage, more spacious


This characteristic to me is the #1 reason I love this setup. The "wrap around" soundstage was mesmerizing and I enjoy rolling this option when I want to try something different from the stock setup.


----------



## Arcayne

Relaxasaurus said:


> This characteristic to me is the #1 reason I love this setup. The "wrap around" soundstage was mesmerizing and I enjoy rolling this option when I want to try something different from the stock setup.


Totally understand that haha, and I agree that that's probably my favorite thing about them. My preferences normally lean a bit more towards the warmth/wetness/richness/smoothness side of things, but the KT88's have enough going for them to keep me interested. 

If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the KT88's with Empyreans?


----------



## LoryWiv

Tung Sol New production 6SN7GT is a somewhat bass-emphasized tube from my memory (sold them some time ago to fund NOS) and relatively inexpensive. I enjoyed them and perhaps worth a try.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Arcayne said:


> Totally understand that haha, and I agree that that's probably my favorite thing about them. My preferences normally lean a bit more towards the warmth/wetness/richness/smoothness side of things, but the KT88's have enough going for them to keep me interested.
> 
> If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the KT88's with Empyreans?


Currently comparing the VO's with the Empy's on the stock tubes. Will switch to the KT88's soon and will get back to you


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I'm sure some of you already know.
Here is something interesting for those who want to stay with the 6SN7.
The E-6SN7s from Lin Lai are a birthday present from my wife.
I'm curious to see how well they do compared to the Ps vane mk2.
But it will take a while until they arrive in Europe.
Space-wise it will be just about enough.
There is just 5-6 mm of space between them when they are installed if I haven't miscalculated.

I haven't read the test of the Globes, but I was more interested in the Lin lai.
The outer diameter has grown by 11 mm and the length is 10 mm shorter than the Ps vane.
Unfortunately, the getter cannot be compared.


----------



## LoryWiv (Mar 31, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> apparently the El34 should also fit if you have the right adapter for it.


I have a pair of 1965 Mullard made EL34's en route, although not expecting them for several weeks. Planning to use them as powers instead of GEC KT88 but wondering if anyone has tried them in the driver slot...is that nuts?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
It should actually be possible in terms of performance.
I think they only need IH 1.3-1.5 ampere
It depends on what you have installed in the drivers.
With Kt tubes it would be 1.0 ampere too much.
With the 6Sn7 you still have room.
But wait and see what the others say, I'm not quite sure myself.
It would be a shame for the pair if it doesn't work out.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> It should actually be possible in terms of performance.
> I think they only need IH 1.3-1.5 ampere
> It depends on what you have installed in the drivers.
> ...


Thank you @Deleeh. KT88's are 1.6A each, EL34 1.5A each so 2 of each would be 6.2A total which I believe is within Euforia (I actually run the very similar Elise) amperage capacity. Am I missing soemthing?


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you @Deleeh. KT88's are 1.6A each, EL34 1.5A each so 2 of each would be 6.2A total which I believe is within Euforia (I actually run the very similar Elise) amperage capacity. Am I missing soemthing?


No, I was told a few pages back that you should not exceed 7 amps.
Theoretically, it fits the value.

The only thing you should keep in mind is that the Euforia was not designed for this type of tube.
That was more or less what Feliks said.

If you do decide to do this, you should also bear in mind that the IH value of tubes can vary somewhat.
Even if most are specified with 1.3-1.5 amperes, one can also have 1.6, if you are then crawling on the borderline of the 7 ampere value, it can then become critical.
Ideally, measure before installation or at least take the data sheet, if available, and do a quick calculation to be on the safe side.

If a tube has 0.1 ampere too much, it doesn't matter, only if all of them fluctuate and are quite close to the 7 ampere, it can become critical.


----------



## connieflyer

I have used the El32 as drivers and as a quad and had good results with adapters of course. Much better were the EL 38, EL38 Special, El38 SPEZ, and EL39 and enjoyed each combo. With all the talk of the 6sn7's again, decided to try them with the GU50 quad.  Using the Sylvania VT231's right now. Will roll various others, like KENRad, RCA, FOTEC, GOLD AIR, and TUNG SOL and see how they react. Have them all and liked them all as drivers.  Tried quad of 6sn7's years ago in Elise, not bad, but low power.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

connieflyer said:


> I have used the El32 as drivers and as a quad and had good results with adapters of course. Much better were the EL 38, EL38 Special, El38 SPEZ, and EL39 and enjoyed each combo. With all the talk of the 6sn7's again, decided to try them with the GU50 quad.  Using the Sylvania VT231's right now. Will roll various others, like KENRad, RCA, FOTEC, GOLD AIR, and TUNG SOL and see how they react. Have them all and liked them all as drivers.  Tried quad of 6sn7's years ago in Elise, not bad, but low power.


That looks immaculate!! How much of a change in sound signature is there with quad power tubes?


----------



## incredulousity

Those are GU50 russian military tubes. They are amazing,  and quite inexpensive. To use them, you need custom adapters, which also provide 12v power supply input, and a 12v power supply. I got my stuff from @Deyan. It's hard to quantify dual v. single power, but I like dual better. I actually like GU50/KT88 per side better than 4x GU50, but there are myriad great rolls that can come of this. @connieflyer is the master, along with @hypnos1. I have benefitted much from the wisdom and kindness of those two and others.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

incredulousity said:


> Those are GU50 russian military tubes. They are amazing,  and quite inexpensive. To use them, you need custom adapters, which also provide 12v power supply input, and a 12v power supply. I got my stuff from @Deyan. It's hard to quantify dual v. single power, but I like dual better. I actually like GU50/KT88 per side better than 4x GU50, but there are myriad great rolls that can come of this. @connieflyer is the master, along with @hypnos1. I have benefitted much from the wisdom and kindness of those two and others.


Interesting, thanks for the explanation. With the photo connieflyer included above can a GU50 and KT88 fit on the same adapter? It looks like there's not enough clearance for the fatter Gold Lions.


----------



## connieflyer

Yes you can, I have used that combo also.  Very good.


----------



## incredulousity

And right now, I have KT88 as drivers too.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
have anyone try to change the capacitors in the Euforia and can say it make sense or not?


----------



## incredulousity

Feliks did, when they made Euforia AE.


----------



## Deleeh (Apr 2, 2021)

Okay not sure is it good to change the Mundorf and go to the Audio Not caps.
And how many need,on one Picture i have see 4 piece but not sure.And it make maybe a bit more sense as the Tube change 🙈

edit:
I find a lot of 0.33 uf 630 volt caps.
But the 2.2 volts at 250 volts are quite rare, and if they are, they are quite expensive.
On this page you have pretty much everything.
The question is whether you can mix the caps between manufacturers?

Or whether you can just change the front 0.33uf 630 volts and leave the 2.2 uf 630 volts mundorf in.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/paper_in_oils.html


----------



## wgkwgk

Hey fellow tube fans,

I've read tons and I want a tube amp.  Question for you all: With 2 ZMFs, HD800s, HD650, Cayin DAC, Violectric amp, rock, acoustic and classical.  Which do I get?  Feliks Euphoria or Woo WA5-LE?  We're talking _grail_ here.  I would really appreciate some direct guidance.  Yes, tubes are subjective.  But assume one upgrade from the stock for each.  

Many thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

wgkwgk said:


> Hey fellow tube fans,
> 
> I've read tons and I want a tube amp.  Question for you all: With 2 ZMFs, HD800s, HD650, Cayin DAC, Violectric amp, rock, acoustic and classical.  Which do I get?  Feliks Euphoria or Woo WA5-LE?  We're talking _grail_ here.  I would really appreciate some direct guidance.  Yes, tubes are subjective.  But assume one upgrade from the stock for each.
> 
> Many thanks!


The Euforia is just extremely neutral.
In addition, the price differences between the Woo and Euforia are quite different.
From the music direction of you I would have said Euforia.
But in the meantime I'm personally a bit split on the Euforia.
He is indeed good in a way, but picky headphones.
That's bit his Genickbruch.und also that the 6As7g tubes seltner become and expensive.
An alternative would still be the Mcintosh MHA200 which came out since the other day.
The would probably again ne corner better and warmer in sound, less neutral.


----------



## OctavianH

If you want a warmer amplifer you can just choose Elise.


----------



## connieflyer

Mundorf is one of the best suppliers out there. If audio are better, which I personally do not think they are, the game changing to the same size would be negligible. Pop's Felix does a lot of research when he builds his amplifiers. He has been building custom amps for a very long time. But of course if you own it and want to risk it, then that's your choice


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> Mundorf is one of the best suppliers out there. If audio are better, which I personally do not think they are, the game changing to the same size would be negligible. Pop's Felix does a lot of research when he builds his amplifiers. He has been building custom amps for a very long time. But of course if you own it and want to risk it, then that's your choice


Hello,
Yeah, sure.
I saw on the site what the capacitor costs.
Certainly better than standard.
It was more of a formal question from me that was asked.
Not necessarily to be sneezed at either.
Why not install something better if possible.

I will soon get an amplifier from a manufacturer and compare how close the two are to each other.
So far I've only read about tubes, why not refine the Euforia/Elise with a few encoders if it were possible?

And it's not necessarily a subject to be underestimated. It would also be great if you could give the Euforia/Elise another touch with it.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have replaced the glass fuse on the Euforia and the Dac with a Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 copper.
I let them play in a little bit and in the meantime I can notice some differences.
In general, the temperature on the units has dropped a little, about 5-7 degrees.
The sound has also changed a bit, bass sounds less muddy and more defined, the headroom has grown a bit. The mids and highs have become a bit cleaner and more powerful. And the Euforia plays a bit warmer and tidier.
It's not a big jump, but it is audible.
There is a silver version, which I only had in the Dac in the beginning and that wasn't bad either. It's a bit cleaner and similar to the increment and plays a bit more neutral, not warmer.
I took the gold one because it plays a bit warmer according to the manufacturer.
I thought the Euforia could use it more and I was right.
At first I thought something was missing when I got the Euforia and blamed it on the tubes because of the burn in, but in the meantime I'm over 200 hours. It wasn't because of the burn in, even though tubes usually change again.
And somehow I have always missed something a bit on the Euforia, and at the moment since changing the fuse it is gone.

I know that there is a side of camps that call it voodoo and the other camp finds it good.
Personally, I don't spend a lot of money on cables and so on and I pay more attention to a clean connection of the devices. 
Is a fuse part of it? Personally, I would say yes, but an electrician would probably see it differently.
I leave it up to each individual to change the fuse.
If yours should fail or if you prefer to replace it, I can recommend this one.
It has also remained affordable and doesn't cost a fortune, and the performance is more than adequate.

https://www.hifi-zubehoer.shop/en/hifi-tuning-supreme-3-kupfer-feinsicherung-a-24836.htm


)


----------



## Deolum

Hey guys

sorry if this has been asked before.

The Euphoria says it's suited for 32-600 ohm cans including planars.

The Elise says it's suited for 32-600 ohm cans but doesn't add the "including planars".

Whats the difference there?

What happens if i plug my HE1000 V2 in the Elise?


----------



## Bonddam

Deolum said:


> Hey guys
> 
> sorry if this has been asked before.
> 
> ...


I couldn't use the HE1000se as it was too low of a sensitivity and starts to clip when you hit good volume and this was on the Euforia. Headphones with high sensitivity sound normal on Euforia. If they don't state the Elise to include planars then it's low impedance dynamics.


----------



## pgkrish

Has anyone here had a chance to compare Euforia with the ZMF pendant?


----------



## Bonddam

Pendant is more powerful and sounds warm doesn’t limit your headphone options
Euforia is lively warm but headphone options limited to high sensitivity example couldn’t rock out with hekse


----------



## pgkrish

Bonddam said:


> Pendant is more powerful and sounds warm doesn’t limit your headphone options
> Euforia is lively warm but headphone options limited to high sensitivity example couldn’t rock out with hekse


In the realm of 300 ohm impedance dynamic driver headphones like the ZMF offerings, would you say the Pendant is more detailed and resolving.


----------



## Henrim

Hi everyone, I'm doing a 1 week in-home demo of the Euforia with my Utopias. Overall I love the sound except i find it rolls off treble. Are there brighter tubes out there? I'm not keen on sacrificing much detail and dynamics though. 

Maybe I'm just a solid state guy...


----------



## LoryWiv

Henrim said:


> Hi everyone, I'm doing a 1 week in-home demo of the Euforia with my Utopias. Overall I love the sound except i find it rolls off treble. Are there brighter tubes out there? I'm not keen on sacrificing much detail and dynamics though.
> 
> Maybe I'm just a solid state guy...


Yes, tubes can affect treble extension. As a very general statement, I find some NOS / vintage Sylvania 6SN7's add upper frequencies over comparison tubes.


----------



## pgkrish

Henrim said:


> Hi everyone, I'm doing a 1 week in-home demo of the Euforia with my Utopias. Overall I love the sound except i find it rolls off treble. Are there brighter tubes out there? I'm not keen on sacrificing much detail and dynamics though.
> 
> Maybe I'm just a solid state guy...


Sylvania 6SN7W, raytheon VT-231, 6922 with adapter on the driver side. Chatham 6ASN7 on the power help with treble. 6922 seems to really help with the dynamics and slam


----------



## LoryWiv

pgkrish said:


> Sylvania 6SN7W, raytheon VT-231, 6922 with adapter on the driver side. Chatham 6ASN7 on the power help with treble. 6922 seems to really help with the dynamics and slam


Would add TS or Cetron 7236 on the power tube side, very "solid state" sounding with just a little more euphonic magic.


----------



## Henrim

pgkrish said:


> Sylvania 6SN7W, raytheon VT-231, 6922 with adapter on the driver side. Chatham 6ASN7 on the power help with treble. 6922 seems to really help with the dynamics and slam


Amazing, thanks so much guys. On second thought I think it was just a burn in issue sorry! Seemed to changed between 40-50 hours. It's bright and airy now, loooooove the sound! Definitly noted those tubes.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

LoryWiv said:


> Would add TS or Cetron 7236 on the power tube side, very "solid state" sounding with just a little more euphonic magic.


Hi I bought the Cetron 7236 all became slightly more pleasing and convincing, and the pitch was tighter, is that English??? the music was just a bit more high end of hifi.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I bought the Cetron 7236 all became slightly more pleasing and convincing, and the pitch was tighter, is that English??? the music was just a bit more high end of hifi.


With Meze empyrean and Ayre QB - 9 Twenty


----------



## connieflyer

One more note on 6sn7's if you get a chance to find a pair of RCA 1948 VT231, they are excellent. Have the others listed here and find the vintage RCA the best.


----------



## Deleeh (Apr 10, 2021)

Hello,
the Postman was here and bring my Birthdaygift,😁. The Space is just suffisant for not use Socket savers.
Actually have the Rca 6as7g install with for the first impression.Later i will change it.Because i have listen the Ps vane Mk2 with the Rca last night,so i will not change directly all in same Time.
Built quality from the Lin Lay E-6SN7 is very Good and impressiv.


----------



## OctavianH

Happy Birthday @Deleeh or better Alles Gute zum Geburtstag!


----------



## Deleeh

OctavianH said:


> Happy Birthday @Deleeh or better Alles Gute zum Geburtstag!


hehe thank you


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> the Postman was here and bring my Birthdaygift,😁. The Space is just suffisant for not use Socket savers.
> Actually have the Rca 6as7g install with for the first impression.Later i will change it.Because i have listen the Ps vane Mk2 with the Rca last night,so i will not change directly all in same Time.
> Built quality from the Lin Lay E-6SN7 is very Good and impressiv.


NOTE: ensure a minimum distance of 5mm between glas envelopes if you intend to install them side-by-side! (Tube Amp Doctor)


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> NOTE: ensure a minimum distance of 5mm between glas envelopes if you intend to install them side-by-side! (Tube Amp Doctor)


Hello,
Yes, I have paid attention to it, it is really marginal, the tube should not be larger in diameter.
Otherwise you would have to increase it.
Roughly measured, I am at 4-4.5 mm, more like 4.5 mm.

I hope Feliks will consider a possible Mk3 version with the driver socket maybe 5-7 mm apart per side, then there would be good space.

The first impression of the tube after a good hour compared to the Ps Vane Mk2.
It's more organic, goes a bit deeper into the finish and is a bit more present on the instruments.
I listened to it with the Audeze Lcd 2C, where it was clearest.


----------



## pgkrish

LoryWiv said:


> Would add TS or Cetron 7236 on the power tube side, very "solid state" sounding with just a little more euphonic magic.


I was lucky to find one pair of TS. Worried about future availability. Can't remember seeing a Cetron for sale lately. Where do you usually source these tubes from.


----------



## Deolum

Bonddam said:


> I couldn't use the HE1000se as it was too low of a sensitivity and starts to clip when you hit good volume and this was on the Euforia. Headphones with high sensitivity sound normal on Euforia. If they don't state the Elise to include planars then it's low impedance dynamics.



My Elise arrived and it can drive the HE1000V2 without problems. So maybe it's because of the 1000SE here? I have one on the way. Maybe i'll try it with the Elise.


----------



## Deleeh

Deolum said:


> My Elise arrived and it can drive the HE1000V2 without problems. So maybe it's because of the 1000SE here? I have one on the way. Maybe i'll try it with the Elise.


I'm a bit surprised.
On the Euforia with the standard tubes and the Lcd 2 C, it is mainly the bass that is lacking.
Hardly fixable without Eq, even with a tube change.
At least that was my personal impression.
With Crossfeed it is a bit better, but even better with Eq together.
With crossfeed I find the Lcd2 C a bit better.
Even though I'm more in the middle of the stage, figuratively speaking, instead of in front of it, it seems to be better.

I'm surprised that you get along better with Elise, even if it's a Hifiman. Planar remains Planar in terms of the driver.
So far I have heard two divided opinions regarding Elise with Planar headphones one camp says great the other camp says no.Be better on the Euforia.

If you are honest, there are SS amplifiers and tube amplifiers that have a better handle on planar headphones.


----------



## Deolum

Deleeh said:


> I'm a bit surprised.
> On the Euforia with the standard tubes and the Lcd 2 C, it is mainly the bass that is lacking.
> Hardly fixable without Eq, even with a tube change.
> At least that was my personal impression.
> ...


I don't think the Elise drives it to the very best and especially has the best bass quality the HekV2 can deliver. On the other hand it smoothes out the planar timbre, the slighty harsh heights and makes the large soundstage a bit more coherent. Maybe it's the tonal synergy that makes it work even though it's technically not the best choice.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> the Postman was here and bring my Birthdaygift,😁. The Space is just suffisant for not use Socket savers.
> Actually have the Rca 6as7g install with for the first impression.Later i will change it.Because i have listen the Ps vane Mk2 with the Rca last night,so i will not change directly all in same Time.
> Built quality from the Lin Lay E-6SN7 is very Good and impressiv.


Curious if the Brimar 6080 pictured are made by Sylvania? Different countries have different laws re origin; in the UK it does not have to say which country if it was not made in the UK - Foreign is enough.


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> Curious if the Brimar 6080 pictured are made by Sylvania? Different countries have different laws re origin; in the UK it does not have to say which country if it was not made in the UK - Foreign is enough.


I have here in the forum only times where what read that they are supposed to Sylvania which was then re-labeled in Brimar.
Because Brimar allegedly had never produced a 6080.Immean you have say it some where in the Deep Forum 😁.But is a time ago.
What it is exactly I do not know Billington in England did not know it himself, but said that it may be possible.
What I have heard so far with the Linlai's in the combination was not even wrong.
They are a bit bright slightly lean in the bass and not quite as refined as the 6080 Mullards.
Somewhere I read a great 6080 test that pretty much describes that.

Am rather curious about how the Lin lai with the 6080 Mullards do.
Better than the ps vane Mk2 you are in any case.
Somehow they have kept the basic character only that they are more open, more organic and closer.
The impact has also increased a bit more.
But it is still a bit early to commit.


----------



## mordy

Glad that you like the new Linlai tubes, but I think that you will need at least 30-50 hours to get the true character after burn-in.
As far as I am concerned those Brimar tubes are Sylvania made which isn't bad at all - they are very good sounding tubes.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Apr 12, 2021)

Wondering if anyone here can comment on the suitability of the Euphoria for use with Focal Clears (55 Ohm) or Audeze LCD-2Fs (70 Ohm).

Traditionally you wouldn't choose an OTL amp like the Euphoria for use with low impedance headphones like the Clear or LCD-2f.  However I keep hearing that Focal used the Euphoria in development of some of their cans...is this true?  I've also had some dealers suggest that the Feliks Euphoria matches well with Clears (wondering if they just want to sell some amps!)

Seems like an OTL would be a bit noisy with Clears...

I'm leaning towards the soon to be released tube hybrid/triode McIntosh MHA-200 for use with my Clears and LCD-2F's as it has switchable impedance to match different cans (an old McIntosh trick from the 70's using custom secondary windings on two different output transformers)...and I've always wanted to own some Mac gear since my 2-channel days...

Thanks in advance for the replies.


----------



## Quince

My Final D8000pro (60 ohms) are very happy with the Euforia 20th anniversary


----------



## Henrim

Crowbar44 said:


> Wondering if anyone here can comment on the suitability of the Euphoria for use with Focal Clears (55 Ohm) or Audeze LCD-2Fs (70 Ohm).
> 
> Traditionally you wouldn't choose an OTL amp like the Euphoria for use with low impedance headphones like the Clear or LCD-2f.  However I keep hearing that Focal used the Euphoria in development of some of their cans...is this true?  I've also had some dealers suggest that the Feliks Euphoria matches well with Clears (wondering if they just want to sell some amps!)
> 
> ...



I'm currently doing an in home trial of Euforia and my Utopia's (80 Ohm) sound the best I've ever heard them. Keen to try MHA 200 too, but... it looks so brandy with the huge McIntosh, and I prefer the symmetry and giant tubes of Euforia. Sound isn't everything right?


----------



## Deleeh

Crowbar44 said:


> Wondering if anyone here can comment on the suitability of the Euphoria for use with Focal Clears (55 Ohm) or Audeze LCD-2Fs (70 Ohm).
> 
> Traditionally you wouldn't choose an OTL amp like the Euphoria for use with low impedance headphones like the Clear or LCD-2f.  However I keep hearing that Focal used the Euphoria in development of some of their cans...is this true?  I've also had some dealers suggest that the Feliks Euphoria matches well with Clears (wondering if they just want to sell some amps!)
> 
> ...


Hello,

Um, so I'm also keen on the Mha 200.  
I heard a stereo tube amp in December and was blown away.
When I left the shop I thought it would be cool if there was a tube headphone amp.
After buying the Euforia, I see that. I definitely would have waited for that.Too Late

About the Euforia:
I was a little disappointed at first. Because I still have the Lcd 2 C, it disappointed me quite a bit. Because it's so empty in the bass with it.
Then I exchanged the Ps Vane tubes for the Lin Lai E-6SN7.
And I have about 26 hours of playing time on it.
At the moment I'm listening with the Lcd 2 C and I've noticed that it's much better.
The bass is no longer so bloodless. There is much more punch and pressure behind it and more defined. Than with the Ps Vane tubes.

The Lin Lai are an asset to planar headphones and they don't lose their sparkle in the mids and highs. It is on Ps Vane level and the Lin lai play a bit warmer. 

If you do go for the Euforia, I wouldn't buy the Gold Edition tubes.
Rather use the Lin Lai as a driver tube and 6080 Mullard if you can find some, if not the 6080 Slyvania will also do very well.
The Ps Vane are too neutral especially for planar headphones as the planar has a very good resolution. The Lin Lai definitely suit the planar very well.
I can't say anything about the Focal as I don't have it.
I have modded the Fostex Tr x00 and Denon D2000 and they work very well with the Euforia.
And the sound with the Lin Lai is also very good. I wouldn't worry that the Focal will cause problems.


----------



## Ichos

Crowbar44 said:


> Wondering if anyone here can comment on the suitability of the Euphoria for use with Focal Clears (55 Ohm) or Audeze LCD-2Fs (70 Ohm).
> 
> Traditionally you wouldn't choose an OTL amp like the Euphoria for use with low impedance headphones like the Clear or LCD-2f.  However I keep hearing that Focal used the Euphoria in development of some of their cans...is this true?  I've also had some dealers suggest that the Feliks Euphoria matches well with Clears (wondering if they just want to sell some amps!)
> 
> ...


I have the Euforia and owned the Clear.
It was a good match but it wouldn't be my primary choice at this price point.


----------



## Crowbar44

Ichos said:


> I have the Euforia and owned the Clear.
> It was a good match but it wouldn't be my primary choice at this price point.


Could you share what your primary amp choice with the Clears would be?


----------



## Ichos

Crowbar44 said:


> Could you share what your primary amp choice with the Clears would be?


There are a lot of choices mostly budget dependent.
I just would not choose a high Z output amplifier.
A high current low impedance solid state or hybrid would be the best bet.
There are easy to drive so it is a matter of quality rather than power.
I enjoyed them very much with Schiit Lyr 3.
Now I don't have them but I like the Elex very much with Corda Jazz ff.
Fluxlab Acoustics FCN-10 was also a great match so I guess their amplifiers are going to be good.


----------



## mayurs (Apr 14, 2021)

So anyone tried an Audio Technica R70X with their Euforia. With an impedance of 470 ohms its begging to be driven by a good OTL. Any inputs will be hugely appreciated. I use a HD650 currently and have a HD600 on order so thought of getting a R70X as well.


----------



## cspersel

mayurs said:


> So anyone tried an Audio Technica R70X with their Euforia. With an impedance of 470 ohms its begging to be driven by a good OTL. Any inputs will be hugely appreciated. I use a HD650 currently and have a HD600 on order so thought of getting a R70X as well.


My guess is that they would do very well. One of my headphones is a ZMF Atticus @ 300 ohms and it loves an OTL amp ... and in particular the Euforia.


----------



## lucasratmundo

pgkrish said:


> Has anyone here had a chance to compare Euforia with the ZMF pendant?


I'm considering getting tube amp soon and wondering about the same. Anyone?


----------



## connieflyer

If you use the search function you can find what you are looking for


 
            [IMG alt="UntilThen"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/s/427/427896.jpg?1500033058[/IMG]          

Feliks Audio tube amps​ 
_ZMF_ Eikon and _Atticus_ arrived !!!


 
UntilThen
 
Post #829
 
Sep 11, 2017
 
Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)
 
 


 

 
            [IMG alt="UntilThen"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/s/427/427896.jpg?1500033058[/IMG]          

Feliks Audio tube amps​ 
A conversation I had with Zach from _ZMF_ _Atticus_ and Eikon headphones. He thinks that Euforia is fantastic with _Atticus_ and Eikon. I'm real happy. You hear that Lukasz? I hope you are tuning into my new thread. :ksc75smile...


 
UntilThen
 
Post #209
 
Jul 15, 2017
 
Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)


----------



## connieflyer

Listening to amp this morning and detected a very slight hum, pulled the KT66's and replaced with 7581's in preamp section.  So glad I did, have been wanting to try these again.  Used to use quite a bit, take a long time to burn in, 80 to 100 hours should do it.  These have a few hundred hours on them, and they are spectacular.  Clarity, especially in vocal range, guitars are beautiful, wondered why I had a few pair of these, now I remember.  Take an adapter easily available on Ebay.


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> Listening to amp this morning and detected a very slight hum, pulled the KT66's and replaced with 7581's in preamp section.  So glad I did, have been wanting to try these again.  Used to use quite a bit, take a long time to burn in, 80 to 100 hours should do it.  These have a few hundred hours on them, and they are spectacular.  Clarity, especially in vocal range, guitars are beautiful, wondered why I had a few pair of these, now I remember.  Take an adapter easily available on Ebay.


Sweet. I see the Gungnir DAC in your list. Is that what you are currently using with the Feliks? My current set up is the Feliks 20th Anniversary amp and Gungnir multi-bit DAC, but on the lookout for a better DAC. I love the Gungnir so will not "pull the trigger" on a new DAC unless it will be significantly better with the Euforia. I'd be interested in your thoughts.


----------



## connieflyer

I am still using the Gungnir dac, and like it very much.  I have listened to other more expensive dacs, but did not see the value.  Listened to one at my audio store, about $3000 and did not find much improvement.  The law of diminishing returns applies. If you are that interested, find a dealer that will let you try one at home.  I did that with my Anthem amplifier, had to put the it on my credit card, but used the demo for a week or so and finally decided to buy it. Even if you had to pay a fee to do this, it is the only way to see if it makes a difference in your system. My opinion of course


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> I am still using the Gungnir dac, and like it very much.  I have listened to other more expensive dacs, but did not see the value.  Listened to one at my audio store, about $3000 and did not find much improvement.  The law of diminishing returns applies. If you are that interested, find a dealer that will let you try one at home.  I did that with my Anthem amplifier, had to put the it on my credit card, but used the demo for a week or so and finally decided to buy it. Even if you had to pay a fee to do this, it is the only way to see if it makes a difference in your system. My opinion of course


Thanks. Agreed. PS Audio has a 30 day trial for their products. It's top DAC is one on my list. The other two, Denafrips Terminator and Holoaudio May 2 Kitsune Edition have a no return policy. Upscale Audio (US distributor of Feliks products) is close to my home, so I could demo their DACs with the Euforia and my Meze headphones, but they stopped carrying the PS Audio DAC and the new Auralic Vega G2.1 is $7K (which they carry) is a little out of my reach. Like you, I really love the Gungnir so am not in any hurry to replace it unless all the planets align and a clear improvement presents itself.


----------



## connieflyer

I had a Denafrips and returned it after a few weeks. and I still have a psaudio .  I liked the PS Audio almost as well as the Gungnir.  I have purchased from Upscale and found them to be very reliable and helpful. If they will let you demo the Auralic go for it and compare it to what you have and see if spending that much would get you a huge increase in performance.  You may stop looking at that point!


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> I had a Denafrips and returned it after a few weeks. and I still have a psaudio .  I liked the PS Audio almost as well as the Gungnir.  I have purchased from Upscale and found them to be very reliable and helpful. If they will let you demo the Auralic go for it and compare it to what you have and see if spending that much would get you a huge increase in performance.  You may stop looking at that point!


Well .. you are certainly making a case for sticking with the Gungnir. I've also bought a few items from Upscale (2 amps and headphones) and .. like you say .. they have excellent customer service. I've also visited their store a couple of times to demo stuff and like their non-pressure approach to hi-fi retail. I'll think about the Auralic, but it has many features I just don't need that adds to its price (e.g. amplifier, pre-amp, etc.). *Note:* One thing I do have on order from Decware Audio is an XLR to RCA converter box. Upscale recommended it to maximize the performance of the Gungnir with the Euforia 20th Anniversary amp since it is a single-ended amp. I'm on a 5 month wait list for it, but will report back when I get it and give it a listen.


----------



## connieflyer

Let me know how the converter box works out.  I looked at these in the past.  But had no recommendations and at that price was not willing to try.


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> Let me know how the converter box works out.  I looked at these in the past.  But had no recommendations and at that price was not willing to try.


Will do. The Upscale rep I was interacting with regarding the purchase of my Euforia highly recommended it when I told him I was using the Gungnir. There are other converter boxes out there, but I decided I would go with Decware because of their stellar reputation. I would have purchased the JBL model (part of their pro audio line), but it is unfortunately no longer available.


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> Let me know how the converter box works out.  I looked at these in the past.  But had no recommendations and at that price was not willing to try.


While I have you on the hook  ... what is your experience with the Furman power conditioner?


----------



## connieflyer

I have had really good luck with the Furman conditioners. It did improve the performance as far as being a little quieter and a little bit clearer. We're not talking giant leaps but I did hear it. I also bought one for my main music system I don't know if I hear a difference with that one or not, but I am very happy with their performance I'm cutting the power. We had a temporary blackout happened three times in a row within an hour the power was shot on all devices and then came back on slowly as the safety margin was met. So I am very happy to say that they do work in that respect.


----------



## cspersel

connieflyer said:


> I have had really good luck with the Furman conditioners. It did improve the performance as far as being a little quieter and a little bit clearer. We're not talking giant leaps but I did hear it. I also bought one for my main music system I don't know if I hear a difference with that one or not, but I am very happy with their performance I'm cutting the power. We had a temporary blackout happened three times in a row within an hour the power was shot on all devices and then came back on slowly as the safety margin was met. So I am very happy to say that they do work in that respect.


Very interesting. I can't remember the price on the Furman, but am also looking at the Decware conditioner which is $995 with 6 outlets. Also not sure if it is one of their "in stock" items or is also on a 5-6 month wait list. But ... I've heard very good things about Furman so that was high on my list. Thank for taking the time to write about your experience.


----------



## Ichos

I am having excellent results with iFi power station.


----------



## cspersel

Ichos said:


> I am having excellent results with iFi power station.


Ah ... thank you for that information. I'll check it out as well.


----------



## cspersel

Ichos said:


> I am having excellent results with iFi power station.


Are you also using any iFi AC iPurifiers?


----------



## Ichos

cspersel said:


> Are you also using any iFi AC iPurifiers?


No , I used to work with a couple of them before I bought the power station.
I have reviewed the power station for hxosplus magazine and I liked it that I ended buying it.
Mind you that I have used various power conditioners from simple distributors to isolation transformers.
At the end I loved the power station.
Now I am experimenting with two power stations , one for digital and one for analogue.


----------



## cspersel

Ichos said:


> No , I used to work with a couple of them before I bought the power station.
> I have reviewed the power station for hxosplus magazine and I liked it that I ended buying it.
> Mind you that I have used various power conditioners from simple distributors to isolation transformers.
> At the end I loved the power station.
> Now I am experimenting with two power stations , one for digital and one for analogue.


I noticed that (in the photo at least) that the outlets are divided between digital and analogue. If that is the case why are experimenting with two of them?


----------



## Ichos

cspersel said:


> I noticed that (in the photo at least) that the outlets are divided between digital and analogue. If that is the case why are experimenting with two of them?


They are not split , it is a kind of practice to use the one end for digital and the other for analogue and not mix them.
Then if you have a spare plug then you can add a separate AC purifier.
Since I have a lot of devices I need a second power block so I might add a second power station to have everything separated.


----------



## cspersel

Ichos said:


> They are not split , it is a kind of practice to use the one end for digital and the other for analogue and not mix them.
> Then if you have a spare plug then you can add a separate AC purifier.
> Since I have a lot of devices I need a second power block so I might add a second power station to have everything separated.


Got it. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## LoryWiv (Apr 17, 2021)

cspersel said:


> While I have you on the hook  ... what is your experience with the Furman power conditioner?


Just to chime in I have a Furman conditioner that has been terrific. Certainly people debate impact but for my system it produced a blacker background and clarity to signature IMHO.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Listening to amp this morning and detected a very slight hum, pulled the KT66's and replaced with 7581's in preamp section.  So glad I did, have been wanting to try these again.  Used to use quite a bit, take a long time to burn in, 80 to 100 hours should do it.  These have a few hundred hours on them, and they are spectacular.  Clarity, especially in vocal range, guitars are beautiful, wondered why I had a few pair of these, now I remember.  Take an adapter easily available on Ebay.


@connieflyer I recall when @Hypnos, you, i and others were all evaluating and praising the TS 7581A and Gold lLon KT66, 77, and 88 new production tubes on the thread. Must be something in the air because just this evening I went back to my GL KT88 powers and am enjoying them quite a bit.


----------



## OctavianH

I am glad to see people still appreciate these. 

I am also on KT88 and I pair them with what I consider to be warmer 6SN7 drivers. The result is very good.


----------



## connieflyer

The headphone system I use this conditioner ELITE-15 DM I it has 13 outlets
9 (linearly filtered outlets – rear panel â€“ (6) switching â€“ 12V triggered)
4 (linearly filtered outlets with additional ultrasonic filtering for digital or video components â€“ (2) switching â€“ 12V triggered)
and for the main system I use this conditioner it has 7 outlets 
1 (linearly filtered outlet – front)
4 (linearly filtered outlet – rear panel)
2 (linearly filtered outlets with additional ultrasonic filtering for digital or video components)
I find this takes care of all my power needs, and it defineatly made a difference in the television picture. 
With both I can monitor voltage with the front panel meters and on the headphone system I can also see the current load.  The additional ultrasonic filtering for the digital outlets does help. It is not a case of just common practice that the outlets are named. The digital outlets have more filtering.  And I also wanted the 12v triggering system.  THese have met my needs with very good regulation and protection.


----------



## iFi audio

cspersel said:


> Are you also using any iFi AC iPurifiers?



Our PowerStation has one AC iPurifier in-built


----------



## mayurs (Apr 22, 2021)

So I got an Audio Technica ATH R70X and am currently hearing Alison Krauss out of my Euforia with CSF 6080WA and Sylvania VT-231. Its a jaw dropping sound out of this combo. Should I say much better than the HD650 in a lot of parameters. These have scaled insanely with the Euforia and is an absolute sleeper of a headphone that surprisingly isn't that well known within the Euforia circles but is absolutely smashing out of the Euforia. Kind of expected it to be good with those 470 ohm drivers but never imagined it to be so good.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question for the tube rolling vets, @connieflyer, @hypnos1 , @mordy, @OctavianH  and the gang:
I've run various 6V6, 6L6, KT66 & KT88 tubes in Elise with 6L6 to 6AS7G adapters, mostly in the power slot but some 6V6 and 6L6 as drivers too. Are EL34 or EL37 tubes also compatible with Euforia / Elise using these adapters? Related question: does the Euforia / Elise auto-bias circuit apply to power slots only or drivers as well?

I have the EL34's on the way and considering EL37's but want to benefit from the experience of others before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for any info.!


----------



## OctavianH (Apr 28, 2021)

I have not tried EL34 nor EL37 but see what we were discussing here some time ago. You can try to check if pins 1 are connected to pins 8 on your adapter on the top side. On mine's made by @Deyan they are not, so maybe double check with him about using EL34 with this adapter:

It seems the adapters made in China have these pins connected but I have no idea because I do not have those at home. Maybe others can check if they have.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Why does Lin Lai not make a nice 5998? The market is too small?


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 27, 2021)

Have not tried the EL 37's.  EL 38"s EL38 special, El39's, El39 Spez and liked these as well. Bought four to the Mullard El 38's and they worked very well indeed.


----------



## connieflyer

I had a pair of the TS5998's but sold them off a couple of years ago, that was a mistake.  I also have a pair of Gold Aero 5998A that I run with a pair of Gold Aero 6sn7's that sounds really good.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

connieflyer said:


> I had a pair of the TS5998's but sold them off a couple of years ago, that was a mistake.  I also have a pair of Gold Aero 5998A that I run with a pair of Gold Aero 6sn7's that sounds really good.


5998A and 5998 are two different tubes. The 5998 is the one with the low output impedance, it sounds phenomenal on the Crack and opens up a lot of details. The 5998A is a good tube, I have an equivalent, but it's no 5998. The tubes people rave about have six domino style indentions in the plate, if it doesn't have those it's not the same tube- Reddit


----------



## connieflyer

Yes Yoram, I am well aware of the differences, and the ones I had were of the six domino style. I did not say they were the same, if you read the post, you can see I was offering a suggestion, most people will not pay the price for the TS 5998, if they can even find good ones left. I would never pay the asking price for these now, the difference they make in the Euforia, is not great enough to be worthwhile. That is why I sold them in the first place. Recoup my investment, of course now it would have been triple that.  Our equipment can not make the power and resolution of the TS5998 worth the price, of course if you have unlimited funds then that's fine.  But then if you do have unlimited funds, why would you have the Euforia in the first place. Simple math


----------



## Yoram Diamand

connieflyer said:


> Yes Yoram, I am well aware of the differences, and the ones I had were of the six domino style. I did not say they were the same, if you read the post, you can see I was offering a suggestion, most people will not pay the price for the TS 5998, if they can even find good ones left. I would never pay the asking price for these now, the difference they make in the Euforia, is not great enough to be worthwhile. That is why I sold them in the first place. Recoup my investment, of course now it would have been triple that.  Our equipment can not make the power and resolution of the TS5998 worth the price, of course if you have unlimited funds then that's fine.  But then if you do have unlimited funds, why would you have the Euforia in the first place. Simple math


Hi I read it but I researched the differences. My income is from the state for the disabled, my Euforia was second hand


----------



## Deyan

OctavianH said:


> I have not tried EL34 nor EL37 but see what we were discussing here some time ago. You can try to check if pins 1 are connected to pins 8 on your adapter. On mine's made by @Deyan they are not, so maybe double check with him about using EL34 with this adapter:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the adapters made in China have these pins connected but I have no idea because I do not have those at home. Maybe others can check if they have.


It's connected on the top. The bottom is imitating 6AS7 the top is the EL34 half.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> I have not tried EL34 nor EL37 but see what we were discussing here some time ago. You can try to check if pins 1 are connected to pins 8 on your adapter. On mine's made by @Deyan they are not, so maybe double check with him about using EL34 with this adapter:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the adapters made in China have these pins connected but I have no idea because I do not have those at home. Maybe others can check if they have.


Can you explain how to check the adapter if pins 1&8 are connected? Which settings and values on the multimeter?
The pins are easy to identify - they are on each side of the ridge on the guidepin.
If they are not connected you can put in a little jumper wire connecting those pins.


----------



## OctavianH

mordy said:


> Can you explain how to check the adapter if pins 1&8 are connected? Which settings and values on the multimeter?
> The pins are easy to identify - they are on each side of the ridge on the guidepin.
> If they are not connected you can put in a little jumper wire connecting those pins.



Hi mordy,

I was checking continuity with my multimeter. My picture was misleading because I was showing the bottom of the adapter, which is wrong, I should make a picture of the top side. The pinout is this one:






As far as I know, to be able to use EL34 in this adapter the supressor grid (G3) has to be connected to cathode (this is how you strap a pentode to triode). 

I checked my adapter as connections are as follows, pin 1 from top of the adapter (6V6) is not connected to anything on the bottom:





This works perfectly for 6V6 (KT66,88 and so on) but for EL34 the pin 1 from top I was expecting to be connected to pin 6 from bottom.
So if we connect pin 1 with pin 8 on the top, pin 8 being connected to pin 6 we are connecting G3 to cathode.

This is how I understand this, if I am wrong please correct me.


----------



## mordy

OctavianH said:


> Hi mordy,
> 
> I was checking continuity with my multimeter. My picture was misleading because I was showing the bottom of the adapter, which is wrong, I should make a picture of the top side. The pinout is this one:
> 
> ...


This is beyond my pay grade - the person to ask is Deyan.


----------



## Deyan

mordy said:


> This is beyond my pay grade - the person to ask is Deyan.


First i was making them accept EL34's, then there was a period when i said to myself " if the order is for 6V6, then that's what I'll make"
And for the last 8-10 months I'm again making them accept EL34's.


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> But then if you do have unlimited funds, why would you have the Euforia in the first place. Simple math



Hi connieflyer,

First off, no I don’t have unlimited funds! But am interested in your opinion on what might be better than a Euforia AE without spending mega thousands. And of course uses the same type of tubes.


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> Why does Lin Lai not make a nice 5998? The market is too small?


Yes i see it too.
Maybe Lin Lai do it in the next month or year i hope.The new 6SN7 Elite Tube are excellent.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deyan said:


> It's connected on the top. The bottom is imitating 6AS7 the top is the EL34 half.


Thanks @Deyan and @OctavianH. To be completely honest the reason I am double checking if these adapters, which Deyan also made for me, are safe to use is that I did receive EL34's and when in use 1st few days all was well, but after 10-15 hours 1 of the 2 tubes emitted persistent loud crackling, then went silent (although still lit up). The other EL34 remained fine. Switching the "dead" tube to the other adapter / other socket didn't change anything. Since one tube remained fine in the same configuration my conclusion was that I just had a bad tube, not a bad adapter or incompatibility issue in Elise with @Deyan's fine adapters .

Is that the correct conclusion or should I avoid EL34's going forward? Not worth it if it may damage my amp. or headphones to try them again.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deyan said:


> First i was making them accept EL34's, then there was a period when i said to myself " if the order is for 6V6, then that's what I'll make"
> And for the last 8-10 months I'm again making them accept EL34's.


So is it risky to use EL34's in your older adapters?


----------



## connieflyer

I have used kt66, kt77, and knowing 88 as drivers with a quad of kt88 for power. Of the three, I prefer the kt 77 (El 34) as drivers


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> I have used kt66, kt77, and knowing 88 as drivers with a quad of kt88 for power. Of the three, I prefer the kt 77 (El 34) as drivers


Thanks, @connieflyer ... does your adapter have pins 1 / 8 connected and does KT77 have exactly same pin-out as EL34? Trying not to court damage to Elise.  

I agree EL34 had some very nice characteristics, sweet mids especially, until the crackle and death of one tube startled me out of my bliss!


----------



## OctavianH

On the EL34, g3 is connected to pin 1, on KT77, it is internally connected to cathode. This is why KT77 works on my adapters.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
What is the difference between 6080 and 6080A?
Would the 6080 A or 5998A still work in the Euforia?


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> What is the difference between 6080 and 6080A?
> Would the 6080 A or 5998A still work in the Euforia?


I am not aware of 6080A, but all the following suffixes are different revisions of the 6080 and all are compatible and interchangeable:
E6080, 6080H, 6080S (These three are French designations; the rest are US designations): 6080WA, 6080WB and 6080WC. Then there are US tubes that are the same or very similar with the designations 6AS7GA and 6AS7GYB.
Add to this European designations of the same tube: UK - CV2984; European - ECC230.
Enjoy the alphabet soup...
6080 and 5998A work fine in the Euforia.
Please note that many 6080 tubes with British and German names are rebranded US tubes; there are forgeries as well - a $5 GE tube will sell for over $100 labeled Telefunken as an example. Some Mullard branded 6080 tubes are made by Sylvania.


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> I am not aware of 6080A, but all the following suffixes are different revisions of the 6080 and all are compatible and interchangeable:
> E6080, 6080H, 6080S (These three are French designations; the rest are US designations): 6080WA, 6080WB and 6080WC. Then there are US tubes that are the same or very similar with the designations 6AS7GA and 6AS7GYB.
> Add to this European designations of the same tube: UK - CV2984; European - ECC230.
> Enjoy the alphabet soup...
> ...


Okay 
Super many thanks.
On warfordvalves there is the 6As7GA
https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=158

I was originally going to order these with the 6080 from General Electric.
I found another site where they sell the General Electric and Sylvania 6080 for 10$ a piece and another 5998A for 30$ a piece.
Seems fair to me to be priced.

Whether it brings against the current 6080 Mullard and Brimar tubes where I have there again what I would have to test.
I would prefer another set of Mullard and Brimar for a rainy day.
Where the Brimar there is not so and is supposed to be a Sylvania.
From the feeling would be the 5998A interesting.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Okay
> Super many thanks.
> On warfordvalves there is the 6As7GA
> https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=158
> ...


From what I read the best sounding 5998A is labeled Gold Aero, but Gold Aero was a rebrander, and I don't know who manufactured the tubes - could be that it varied.
Sylvania 6080 are very good sounding tubes.
GE tubes in general, do not get much love....


----------



## connieflyer

I have heard that about the Gold Aero also.  It seems to me, I had heard years ago they were TS.  Like them very much with the Gold Aero 6SN7's


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> From what I read the best sounding 5998A is labeled Gold Aero, but Gold Aero was a rebrander, and I don't know who manufactured the tubes - could be that it varied.
> Sylvania 6080 are very good sounding tubes.
> GE tubes in general, do not get much love....


Thanks for your information @mordy.
Did you mean both General Electric tubes aren't all that great or just one of them?

Where can you find the Golden Aero?
According to Google it had been a bit thin.


----------



## mordy (Apr 30, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Thanks for your information @mordy.
> Did you mean both General Electric tubes aren't all that great or just one of them?
> 
> Where can you find the Golden Aero?
> According to Google it had been a bit thin.


It seems that the consensus is that most GE tubes aren't that great, but, of course, there are always exceptions. Personally, I like late 30's - early 40's GE 6C/J5 and later GE 5687 tubes; there are other exceptions as well, but in general that seems to be the impression I get through reading.
Then you have something called expectation bias - even a GE 6080 can sound great if it says Telefunken on it lol.

Gold Aero was not a manufacturer but a rebrander and bought tubes from various manufacturers and put their name on them.
Here is a list of Gold Aero tubes that sold on eBay that last sixty days. Tubes are listed as being made by GE, Telefunken and Mullard etc.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...e&_sacat=183077&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
Your best bet is to research what you should be looking for and if possible, learn to identify the tubes. Then you can look for the same tube under a different name which many times means that the price is lower.


----------



## mordy (Apr 30, 2021)

Another source to hunt for tubes is Google Images. Just go to Google Images, type in what you are looking for, and you will find pictures of Gold Aero tubes in this case. There are times when you can find sellers outside eBay advertising them in this way. When I checked now I find these impressive looking 6AS7G Gold Aero tubes:




Alas, they are just regular RCA 6AS7G tubes....
The tubes have something to do with this amp - have no idea what it is, but it looks impressive with 26 tubes:


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> Did you mean both General Electric tubes aren't all that great or just one of them?



I do not have something against GE. On Elise GEC KT66 and GE 7581A was my favourite combo. I have also a pair of GE 6550A which is quite good.
OK, reading the forums you can find that many advise other brands, but I was not able to really understand why.


----------



## barontan2418

mordy said:


> It seems that the consensus is that most GE tubes aren't that great, but, of course, there are always exceptions. Personally, I like late 30's - early 40's GE 6C/J5 and later GE 5687 tubes; there are other exceptions as well, but in general that seems to be the impression I get through reading.
> Then you have something called expectation bias - even a GE 6080 can sound great if it says Telefunken on it lol.
> 
> Gold Aero was not a manufacturer but a rebrander and bought tubes from various manufacturers and put their name on them.
> ...


GE 7581A  and 6550A are two exceptions, both are very good tubes in my humble opinion.😁


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> It seems that the consensus is that most GE tubes aren't that great, but, of course, there are always exceptions. Personally, I like late 30's - early 40's GE 6C/J5 and later GE 5687 tubes; there are other exceptions as well, but in general that seems to be the impression I get through reading.
> Then you have something called expectation bias - even a GE 6080 can sound great if it says Telefunken on it lol.
> 
> Gold Aero was not a manufacturer but a rebrander and bought tubes from various manufacturers and put their name on them.
> ...


Okay great thanks for the information.
Yes, if that's the case with the General Electric, it makes no sense to me.
It's always a matter of taste.
But not worth it, especially one costs $30 and comes from Canada.
The Sylvania would still be interesting, I would have to buy almost 4 pieces to make it worthwhile and maybe sell a pair so that they only cost 10$ each.
But they are hard to find in Europe.
At the moment it's really a bit stupid with this type of tube, sometimes you find something from overseas that is either too expensive or too cheap again.
Shipping from America is often more expensive than the tube itself.
And in Europe you often find tubes that are overpriced.
Totally uninteresting somehow.
With the Mullards and Brimar 6080, I was just lucky to find them on my doorstep.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Okay great thanks for the information.
> Yes, if that's the case with the General Electric, it makes no sense to me.
> It's always a matter of taste.
> But not worth it, especially one costs $30 and comes from Canada.
> ...


I am aware of the increased costs of buying tubes in Europe. Apparently many contries charge high import duties and taxes etc. And shipping from the US seems to be very expensive as well.
There are local sellers in Germany/Europe that sometimes have very good deals. Another venue is to look for fellow head-fiers that are selling their tubes - sometimes you have luck there as well.
And if you take your time - patience pays off!


----------



## connieflyer (May 1, 2021)

The Gold Aero 6sn7 I use as drivers, were supposed to be made by RCA Red label.  With the Gold Aero 5998A as powers, base is deep and vocals are spot on. I find the Feliks AE to be the best they have done. I had both the Elise and standard Euforia, the AE was very worthwhile and would upgrade again.


----------



## incredulousity

More evil plans... coming soon! As always, kudos to Deyan!


----------



## OctavianH

GU50 and you plan to plug those in a 12V supply?


----------



## Deleeh

300 B tube i think


----------



## Eylrik

Hi,
Has anyone compared good old 5998 (which are still my reference along with 7236) and KT88 golden lion as power tubes ?


----------



## Deleeh

Eylrik said:


> Hi,
> Has anyone compared good old 5998 (which are still my reference along with 7236) and KT88 golden lion as power tubes ?


Hello,
These are now all somewhat exquisite tubes that are relatively rare, the 5998 and 7236.
If you do find something, it is too expensive or the tube is not great enough.
I have found a 5998A from General Electric, but it is not supposed to be that great.

It's silly, but with a good 6080 you'll get off as well as with a 5998 probably.

Somewhere I saw a page where both types were on a similar level, depending on the manufacturer.

But wait and see what others will say or suggest.
As always, a lot depends on luck and price.
As long as there is no manufacturer willing to build a good 7236,5998 6080, it will become increasingly difficult to get hold of something good.


----------



## incredulousity (May 4, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> GU50 and you plan to plug those in a 12V supply?



No. 6AS7/6SN7 powered socket savers with 6.2-6.3V supply, to allow combos of appropriate tubes and adapted KTxx(x) without caring about heater current limit.

I already have the GU50 setup.

For example, I can try combinations involving 5998, etc.


----------



## incredulousity (May 4, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> 300 B tube i think



No, but I’m insane enough to do that too!

And what would be more insane… 300B or 2A3? 

I don’t even know if those would be feasible. @Deyan would. 

This tube rolling is a sickness.


----------



## LoryWiv (May 4, 2021)

Nice, @incredulousity. I love your spirit of adventure to get the most out of Euforia without blowing anything up. 
On a related note, I posted a question in the fairly quiet Elise forum about compatibility, no answers and I'm itching to try the EL37 so I'll put it to the smart people on this FA forum, since I believe Elise and Euforia have similar design and electric specifications.

The question is about Elise's (or Euforia's)  auto-bias circuitry and how that affects compatibility with non-standard tubes. Specifically, I am interested in trying Mullard EL37 which Deyan has assured me his 6L6 to 6AS7 adapters accommodate. However, reading *here* it states that these tubes can substitute for 6L6"as long "as your amp does not put more than 360 volts on the plate and 270 volts at 2.5 watts on the screen." I am not certain how to get this information for Elise (or Euforia) nor if it is even applicable with auto-bias and the EL37 tubes running triode-strapped in adapters. Lastly, while I plan to use the EL37 in power (output) slots, would it be safe to try them as drivers since my understanding is that auto-bias circuitry is applied to power slots, unsure if to driver slots as well.

Perhaps I am worrying too much but would love to learn regarding these questions both the principles and data to be mindful of, as well as know if others have run EL37 successfully in power / driver slots with Elise or Euforia. Thanks for any info.!


----------



## JTbbb

Just a heads up to fellow Euforia AE owners, and possibly Euforia/Elise owners. I have lost my LH channel and had got it into my head it was something I had caused when installing a power tube. Well, it is being looked at by a valve amp specialist and it’s turned out to be the Jack Plug socket that is falling apart. My amp is 14 months old.


----------



## Ichos

Hi Dear friends , I have finally managed to get a translation of my original Feliks Audio Euforia review.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-euforia-tube-amplifier-6sn7-6n13s.24351/review/25842/

Feel free to comment and let me know if you like it!


----------



## Deleeh

Ichos said:


> Hi Dear friends , I have finally managed to get a translation of my original Feliks Audio Euforia review.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-euforia-tube-amplifier-6sn7-6n13s.24351/review/25842/
> 
> Feel free to comment and let me know if you like it!


Hello,

I don't quite agree with the test.
The Euforia is a bit more in that respect.

The Euforia is more than capable of handling the Audeze Lcd 2 C, which has 80 ohms.
What you should know is that you can't get the best out of the Ps Vane tubes.
The Lcd 2 C sounds a bit bloodless. But if you replace the 6SN7 with better tubes, the Lcd 2 C really ignites. (Lin Lai E-6SN7)
With the Mullard 6080s, things really take off. 6080 Sylvania tubes are also very good in this pairing.
The bass is even more, mids and highs remain on the same level as the Ps vane.
But the mids and highs are a bit more relaxed with the Parrung Lin Lai E-6SN7 and 6080 Mullards or the 6080 Sylvania.
The Sylvania are a touch more organic but don't go quite as low as the Mullards.

And with the original pairing I have to say the 6AS7G tubes are clearly worse.
I swapped the original Rusis for the Rca and found that both masked certain areas.

So it gives the impression why you should listen to it with "high end" headphones.

My recommendation is to save the 200€/$ and invest in the right tubes. If you are willing to spend 50-60 €/$ more then the Lin Lai and Sylvania 6080s you have already done a lot.

Then the Euforia will also run extremely well with a Denon D2000 Fostex tr 00.

Apart from that, you can pair the Euforia with other tubes but it is not recommended.

In the beginning I was quite disappointed with the Euforia.
In the meantime, however, no more. More than satisfied.
I think that it will also harmonise with a less good Dac and headphones with the most common ones.

I had an Hd 600 here for a short time and I didn't like it as much with the original tube pairing as I do with the Lcd 2 c.
If I had kept it, it would probably cut a good figure after the tube replacement.
The bass was a bit crisper than the Lcd 2c, but the Lcd 2c had the better mids and highs.
And with the replacement of the original tubes, the Eq setting was completely removed.
Another certain point I wanted to address.

What I was missing in the test was the pairing with the Denafrips Ares 2.
How good it sounds and where you could put it?

But I didn't want to ruin the test, I just wanted to show what the Euforia is and what it deserves.

And by the way, I was allowed to test an Otl in the same price range from a manufacturer.
3 guesses who won the test?
It was the Euforia with its Lin lai + Sylvania pairing.

The Otl from the manufacturer was too aggressive for me, I got tired of listening to it very quickly, and it was slightly peaked in the highs.
The Euforia was much softer and more affectionate in sound.

Thanks anyway for all the impressions of your test.


----------



## Ichos (May 10, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> I don't quite agree with the test.
> The Euforia is a bit more in that respect.
> ...


As you can understand a review can't cover various tube rolling options.
That is why user feedback like yours is really valuable.

Now on a second thought I am going to remove the part about high end partners so I don't discourage people from buying and experimenting with the Euforia.

Regarding the Ares II , as you understand this is not an Ares review so I can't expand more.

Kindly read here my Pontus review Pontus and think of Ares as a slightly scaled down version.

If you like natural sounding DACs and hate DS glare and ringing as much as I do then you should definitely consider the Ares.


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> As you can understand a review can't cover various tube rolling options.
> That is why user feedback like yours is really valuable.
> 
> Now on a second thought I am going to remove the part about high end partners so I don't discourage people from buying and experimenting with the Euforia.


In the second review (looks like a different reviewer) there was a statement about tube longevity that I don't agree with:

There is a statement in that review that is incorrect: _"You should keep in mind that most tubes are rated for a life of around 1000 hours, so you'll need a few if you're to use a tube amplifier. This doesn't mean that the amplifier will die after 1000 hours, but you will have to replace the tubes."_

Most tubes are rated for 3000 - 5000 hours, and many are rated for 10.000 hours of use. Many tubes used today were originally intended for military use, and the more benign usage in a headphone amplifier can make tubes last for many years - up to ten years and more.
There is a perception that only new tubes (NOS) can sound good and that they have to measure new or almost new to sound good. This is not true - even a lower measuring tube could sound just as good as a high measuring tube.

The service life of a good quality headphone amp could approach twenty years or more.

But you do need more tubes for a different reason - once you have a tube headphone amplifier you can change the sound with different tubes, often to an amazing degree and hopefully find the sound that you really like.


----------



## Ichos

mordy said:


> In the second review (looks like a different reviewer) there was a statement about tube longevity that I don't agree with:
> 
> There is a statement in that review that is incorrect: _"You should keep in mind that most tubes are rated for a life of around 1000 hours, so you'll need a few if you're to use a tube amplifier. This doesn't mean that the amplifier will die after 1000 hours, but you will have to replace the tubes."_
> 
> ...


Most tubes are rated for more than 3K hours unless they are run at very high voltage and current reaching their limit.

Tube amplifiers have some disadvantages compared to solid state that their happy owners usually don't mind.

I used to be on the tube rolling pit myself and I have swear to myself not to roll again.

For the Euforia I have only bought a pair of cheap 6080w power tubes.


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> Most tubes are rated for more than 3K hours unless they are run at very high voltage and current reaching their limit.
> 
> Tube amplifiers have some disadvantages compared to solid state that their happy owners usually don't mind.
> 
> ...


You are right - tube rolling is addictive. I try to limit myself by not allowing myself to buy tubes for more than $6 each including shipping. 
Here is a toungue-in-cheek tube aduiophile saying:
"I am drawn to tube amplifiers because of the expense, unpredictability and inconvience."
But all jokes aside, the rewards are there....


----------



## Ichos

Unfortunately with $6 per tube , you can't tube roll the Euforia...


----------



## mordy

Ichos said:


> Unfortunately with $6 per tube , you can't tube roll the Euforia...


Well, I have to admit that the adapters (and power supplies) will cost more than the tubes, but check the prices on GU50 tubes (I don't have them).
My present amp is using driver tubes that cost less than $6 and power tubes that cost around $9 but admittedly it takes time and patience to find these deals. I am using 6J5GT tubes as drivers and 6N12S tubes as power tubes, and these tubes could be used in the Euforia (the 6J5 with 6N7 to 6SN7 adapters).
Bottom line: You do not need expensive tubes for good sound!


----------



## JTbbb

JTbbb said:


> Just a heads up to fellow Euforia AE owners, and possibly Euforia/Elise owners. I have lost my LH channel and had got it into my head it was something I had caused when installing a power tube. Well, it is being looked at by a valve amp specialist and it’s turned out to be the Jack Plug socket that is falling apart. My amp is 14 months old.



Got my amp back yesterday after losing the LH channel, and all is restored. I missed it! Although the jack socket was indeed well worn it turned out not to be the culprit for losing the LH channel. The jack socket is connected to a small solid state PCB and one of it’s purposes is to allow a small time delay before switching the output to the headphones socket. Surface mounted is a small switching relay which does the switching, and it was this that had failed.

I did of course contact Feliks Audio when I first lost the channel as I knew it could be returned for investigation and repair, but they advised it would be an unknown undertaking now that the UK we’re not part of the EU. Fortunately I came across Dave who runs Classic Valve Amps, just north of Nottingham, who I cannot recommend highly enough, excellent chap, excellent service.


----------



## Laines

Just got my Euforia and want to try some 6080 tubes. 
I realized that the base of the 6080 is way to big for the hole in the euforia. I mean the pins are inserted but just about half way. 

How you guys do it? Are you using a adapter?


----------



## JTbbb

Laines said:


> Just got my Euforia and want to try some 6080 tubes.
> I realized that the base of the 6080 is way to big for the hole in the euforia. I mean the pins are inserted but just about half way.
> 
> How you guys do it? Are you using a adapter?



Odd, post some pics. I have used many pairs of 6080’s with no issues at all.


----------



## Laines

JTbbb said:


> Odd, post some pics. I have used many pairs of 6080’s with no issues at all.


Sure,

The original tube (rigth) has a smaller diameter and fits perfectly in the tube opening at the Euforia. 
The 6080 has a larger diameter and sits on top of it. So the pins of the 6080 are not fully "connected"


----------



## JTbbb

Laines said:


> Sure,
> 
> The original tube (rigth) has a smaller diameter and fits perfectly in the tube opening at the Euforia.
> The 6080 has a larger diameter and sits on top of it. So the pins of the 6080 are not fully "connected"



I’ve never seen one with that circumference, I think others will be able to chime in. But going back to your original query, I can’t see there being any harm done as long as the pins are making sufficient contact.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

LoryWiv said:


> Nice, @incredulousity. I love your spirit of adventure to get the most out of Euforia without blowing anything up.
> On a related note, I posted a question in the fairly quiet Elise forum about compatibility, no answers and I'm itching to try the EL37 so I'll put it to the smart people on this FA forum, since I believe Elise and Euforia have similar design and electric specifications.
> 
> The question is about Elise's (or Euforia's)  auto-bias circuitry and how that affects compatibility with non-standard tubes. Specifically, I am interested in trying Mullard EL37 which Deyan has assured me his 6L6 to 6AS7 adapters accommodate. However, reading *here* it states that these tubes can substitute for 6L6"as long "as your amp does not put more than 360 volts on the plate and 270 volts at 2.5 watts on the screen." I am not certain how to get this information for Elise (or Euforia) nor if it is even applicable with auto-bias and the EL37 tubes running triode-strapped in adapters. Lastly, while I plan to use the EL37 in power (output) slots, would it be safe to try them as drivers since my understanding is that auto-bias circuitry is applied to power slots, unsure if to driver slots as well.
> ...



Hi @LoryWiv  - I was perusing the tube threads, maybe I can help in a small way.

First off, the spec sheet for the EL37 lists the max plate + screen voltage as 400V, so not sure where Brent Jesse came up with that spec.  This is the voltage with respect to the cathode, not to ground.  This is significant because in a cathode follower, the cathode is not at ground potential, it is positive with respect to ground and depends on the bias point.  So, part of the B+ voltage will be dropped from plate to cathode, the rest from cathode to ground.  For instance, you might have a 6AS7G cathode follower with a 200V B+ and 100V on the cathode.  This means the plate-to-cathode voltage is only 100V; half of the B+ is dropped from plate to cathode, the other half is dropped from cathode to ground.  The Elise is designed for the 6AS7G, which has a maximum plate-to-cathode voltage of 250V.  Long story short, even if Feliks Audio used a very hot bias point for the 6AS7G, no matter what the bias of the EL37 in the Elise circuit you are unlikely to exceed the maximum voltage specification.

The quality of bias point of the tube, on the other hand, is completely dependent on the cathode resistance used, B+ on the plate, and the plate voltage of the 6SN7 input as it appears to be direct-coupled to the grid of the output tube.  You would have to measure those values in circuit to see how well the EL37 will bias.  Same goes for using the EL37 as an input tube.  Autobias does not guarantee an optimal bias point, and given the amp is designed for 6SN7, I suspect the EL37 will not be biased for low distortion as an input tube.  Still might sound pretty good though!  You never know.

Here is the EL37 datasheet: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/129/e/EL37.pdf


----------



## LoryWiv

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hi @LoryWiv  - I was perusing the tube threads, maybe I can help in a small way.
> 
> First off, the spec sheet for the EL37 lists the max plate + screen voltage as 400V, so not sure where Brent Jesse came up with that spec.  This is the voltage with respect to the cathode, not to ground.  This is significant because in a cathode follower, the cathode is not at ground potential, it is positive with respect to ground and depends on the bias point.  So, part of the B+ voltage will be dropped from plate to cathode, the rest from cathode to ground.  For instance, you might have a 6AS7G cathode follower with a 200V B+ and 100V on the cathode.  This means the plate-to-cathode voltage is only 100V; half of the B+ is dropped from plate to cathode, the other half is dropped from cathode to ground.  The Elise is designed for the 6AS7G, which has a maximum plate-to-cathode voltage of 250V.  Long story short, even if Feliks Audio used a very hot bias point for the 6AS7G, no matter what the bias of the EL37 in the Elise circuit you are unlikely to exceed the maximum voltage specification.
> 
> ...


@L0rdGwyn huge appreciation for your explanations, written so well even I can almost follow it. Yes, I was sufficiently reassured and have spent time with the Mullard EL37 as powers in Elise (with @Deyan's adapters),. They are actually incredible-sounding overall, especially the gorgeous mids and overall level of musical engagement. Female vocals are as good as it gets. Soul jazz with guitar and saxophone had me toe-tapping and finger-popping in ecstasy! 

That said, as a classical listener the tonality of strings in particular was off at times, violin sounding almost like  clarinet...I won't bore anyone with further description, just not the most natural instrumental timbre.

Bottom line: Thank you, yes EL37 runs cool and seems quite compatible in Elise and will likely be my go to output tube for vocals / mid-centric music, jazz and classic rock. Musicality is off the charts. For more analytic listening sessions of classical music in particular, GEC KT88 or even my Sylvania 6L6 / VT-115 are better suited. Good to have options!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@LoryWiv no problem, glad it worked out.


----------



## mordy

JTbbb said:


> Got my amp back yesterday after losing the LH channel, and all is restored. I missed it! Although the jack socket was indeed well worn it turned out not to be the culprit for losing the LH channel. The jack socket is connected to a small solid state PCB and one of it’s purposes is to allow a small time delay before switching the output to the headphones socket. Surface mounted is a small switching relay which does the switching, and it was this that had failed.
> 
> I did of course contact Feliks Audio when I first lost the channel as I knew it could be returned for investigation and repair, but they advised it would be an unknown undertaking now that the UK we’re not part of the EU. Fortunately I came across Dave who runs Classic Valve Amps, just north of Nottingham, who I cannot recommend highly enough, excellent chap, excellent service.


If you roll a lot of tubes and headphones there is going to be wear and tear on sockets and headphone jacks. To minimize having wear-out problems I use socket savers for the tubes and little short extensions for the headphone cables. If the socket savers start to get loose you can tighten them up with a pin or a thin screwdriver, and if the little headphone extensions give out they are cheap enough to replace.
I recognize that some people feel that adding in extra pieces in the chain will degrade the sound but personally I have not noticed it, although I am open to try audiophile fuses if somebody will lend me a couple.....


----------



## Ichos

This little beast has enough current flow to drive the HEDDphone with headroom and great sound.
Pretty amazing!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
My journey with Tube Rolling is as good as over.
My favourites are definitely the E-6SN7 from Lin Lai paired with the 6080 Mullard or 6080 Sylvania.

The difference between Mullard and Sylvania.
Apart from the price difference, the Sylvania is more organic but not as deep as the Mullard.
That is actually the main difference.
Other than that, they are pretty similar in bass, mids and treble.
The Mullard plays perhaps a touch more sweetly than the Sylvania.

This combination works very well on driver headphones and best on the Lcd 2C, which has more bass than the Ps Vane.

I can't say that the 6080s are better because they both have their charm and character.
And they are hardly too far apart.

To save the Lin Lai during burn in for the other tubes I bought the Tad 6SN7 GT.
The Sylvania is somewhat better than the Mullard in combination.
The combination is actually good and better with the Lcd 2C than with the Ps vane.
But it lacks a bit of love behind it, and as a cheap replacement it is mostly ok.

The Euforia becomes magical for me as soon as I switch to the Lin Lai with the Mullards or Sylvania.
I noticed this right away when I replaced the Tad tubes.

I like the combination so much that I got a second pair of Mullards here on the forum, thanks again for that.
I was able to get the Sylvania as a pair for 10$ in America.(no shipping inclued)
And a second Lin Lai pair is already on its way.
Of course, they all serve as replacements for bad days.
I also got my hands on a pair of 6080 General Electric for $10 and thought I'd give them a try.

Otherwise I can say that the Lin Lai are simply better than the Ps Vane in every respect. Even before the burn in they show where they are going and after the burn in they open up a bit more.
At least for my subjective impression.
I can unreservedly recommend them for those who want it more musical, warmer and punchier.
The rest depends a bit on the power tubes that are in there.

In terms of resolution, they play almost like the Ps Vane, only more lovingly, with more charm and warmth and less hard.
It becomes very clear with the Lcd 2c as headphones, which I use most of the time.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, Certron 7236 Tube is now sold at woo for 240 dollar, these tubes dry up. So I asked Feliks Audio, what to think of a KT88 setup. But Lukasz said to have a good KT88 amp we would have to rebuild it, sorry. To refurbish the old model, the current model into the future Feliks KT88 amp would not be an option. I asked Lin Lai, all these OTL amps will become useless. Someone should make a new 5998 or sometyhing, but they did not respond. You tube rollers use KT88 ond the current model Euforia even though it is not built for KT88. Back KT88, front??? 6sn7??? Can you tell me what is your recepy?


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, Certron 7236 Tube is now sold at woo for 240 dollar, these tubes dry up. So I asked Feliks Audio, what to think of a KT88 setup. But Lukasz said to have a good KT88 amp we would have to rebuild it, sorry. To refurbish the old model, the current model into the future Feliks KT88 amp would not be an option. I asked Lin Lai, all these OTL amps will become useless. Someone should make a new 5998 or sometyhing, but they did not respond. You tube rollers use KT88 ond the current model Euforia even though it is not built for KT88. Back KT88, front??? 6sn7??? Can you tell me what is your recepy?


Hello 
What do you mean by Recepy?

Your suggestion is interesting regarding the 5998 tube.
Maybe someone will dare to try it.
I find Woo audio expensive, especially as a European, there is also the expensive shipping from the Americans plus customs.
For the Sylvania and General Electric I paid 25$ and the price of the tube was 10$.
You have to buy 2 sets to make it worthwhile, otherwise the shipping would be more expensive than the tube.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Hello
> What do you mean by Recepy?
> 
> Your suggestion is interesting regarding the 5998 tube.
> ...


"recipe" I meant: KT88 with which tubes combined. Rear KT88 front???


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> "recipe" I meant: KT88 with which tubes combined. Rear KT88 front???


Neither,
I have installed the 6sn7 from Lin lai at the front and the 6080 Mullard at the rear.
I haven't done the self mod yet because of the warranty and so on.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jun 10, 2021)

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, Certron 7236 Tube is now sold at woo for 240 dollar, these tubes dry up. So I asked Feliks Audio, what to think of a KT88 setup. But Lukasz said to have a good KT88 amp we would have to rebuild it, sorry. To refurbish the old model, the current model into the future Feliks KT88 amp would not be an option. I asked Lin Lai, all these OTL amps will become useless. Someone should make a new 5998 or sometyhing, but they did not respond. You tube rollers use KT88 ond the current model Euforia even though it is not built for KT88. Back KT88, front??? 6sn7??? Can you tell me what is your recepy?


Adapters, I obtained mine from a great fellow head-fi'er, @Deyan. Yes, you may void the warranty but KT88, KR66, 6L6, 6V6, EL37's are all great peromers in my Elise with adapters, taking care not to exceed heater current max.


----------



## connieflyer

The TS 5998 when I had it was a good performer. Better than what comes stock to be sure, but not the end all. The various tube combinations that are available to use in our amps is very wide and some much better than others. I have used most combinations ( I have a much thinner bank account to prove it!) and found that most sounded at least as good as the stock tubes. Manufacturers under cost constraints do not include the best tubes available, price being the biggest drawback, and time to market is another.  Can you imagine trying to check every combination of tubes before releasing a new amp how long that would take?  They do a few that are safe, but impossible to try all combos.  Looking at the electrical components and design of these amps, I would never have guessed that the inexpensive Russian GU50 tubes would sound so right.  The quad of these have been the longest combination of any and all the tubes that I have tried.They give me everything I want from this amp. As to a replacement amp, if I tire of this, the only one that I have or will consider is the McIntosh MHA 150 a solid state amp. I would love to purchase the HE 1 from Sennheiser but at $60,000.00 is just a little out of my budget.


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## incredulousity (Jun 10, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> The TS 5998 when I had it was a good performer. Better than what comes stock to be sure, but not the end all. The various tube combinations that are available to use in our amps is very wide and some much better than others. I have used most combinations ( I have a much thinner bank account to prove it!) and found that most sounded at least as good as the stock tubes. Manufacturers under cost constraints do not include the best tubes available, price being the biggest drawback, and time to market is another.  Can you imagine trying to check every combination of tubes before releasing a new amp how long that would take?  They do a few that are safe, but impossible to try all combos.  Looking at the electrical components and design of these amps, I would never have guessed that the inexpensive Russian GU50 tubes would sound so right.  The quad of these have been the longest combination of any and all the tubes that I have tried.They give me everything I want from this amp. As to a replacement amp, if I tire of this, the only one that I have or will consider is the McIntosh MHA 150 a solid state amp. I would love to purchase the HE 1 from Sennheiser but at $60,000.00 is just a little out of my budget.



My current roll is KT88 drivers, and one KT88 and one TS 5998 per side as powers. I have Deyan adapters and splitters, as well as new custom Deyan powered socket savers that allow use of TS 5998 in paired combinations. This is a great combination, which is almost perfect to my ears. I need to try other things, including pairing GU50 with TS 5998 as powers. 

Also, the latest cheap iFi snake oil (DC Defender and GND Defender) works extremely well, with both of my tube amps, to eliminate all tube noise and make the background a deep, black void. Highly recommended.

Sounds sublime with VO, HD800S, and Empys. As always, does not adequately drive Hedd, though loud recordings with no bass requirements sound great.


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## OctavianH

incredulousity said:


> My current roll is KT88 drivers, and one KT88 and one TS 5998 per side as powers. I have Deyan adapters and splitters, as well as new custom Deyan powered socket savers that allow use of TS 5998 in paired combinations. This is a great combination, which is almost perfect to my ears. I need to try other things, including pairing GU50 with TS 5998 as powers.


What you describe is very interesting. Can you show us a picture of these adapters and splitters? I am curious to see them.


----------



## Rebel Chris

incredulousity said:


> Also, the latest cheap iFi snake oil (DC Defender and GND Defender) works extremely well, with both of my tube amps, to eliminate all tube noise and make the background a deep, black void. Highly recommended.


How would such a device remove tube noise? Do you use both on an amp?

Kind regards Chris


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## LoryWiv

incredulousity said:


> My current roll is KT88 drivers, and one KT88 and one TS 5998 per side as powers. I have Deyan adapters and splitters, as well as new custom *Deyan powered socket savers* that allow use of TS 5998 in paired combinations. This is a great combination, which is almost perfect to my ears. I need to try other things, including pairing GU50 with TS 5998 as powers.
> 
> Also, the latest cheap iFi snake oil (DC Defender and GND Defender) works extremely well, with both of my tube amps, to eliminate all tube noise and make the background a deep, black void. Highly recommended.
> 
> Sounds sublime with VO, HD800S, and Empys. As always, does not adequately drive Hedd, though loud recordings with no bass requirements sound great.


Hmmm, powered socket savers. Never knew there was such a beast. Does one connect them to an external heater? Photos would be welcomed if not too much trouble.


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## incredulousity

LoryWiv said:


> Hmmm, powered socket savers. Never knew there was such a beast. Does one connect them to an external heater? Photos would be welcomed if not too much trouble.



Yes. I had @Deyan custom make them for me. The point is to surpass the heater current limitations of the amp. I’m presently only using them on the TS 5998s. The KT88s are still powered by the amp, and I’m comfortably in the safe range with the four. The amp runs very cool, with this combination. 

The heater voltages are different for the Euforia “compatible” tubes and the GU50s, so I have had Deyan build me two power supplies that will each power up to six tubes. 

I’ll post pix at some point, but am doing tedious chores today, and driving speakers with Phonitor X.


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## Jeweltopia

Has anyone tried the Feliks Euforia going into a GS-X Mini (or similar class A amp) as a pre-amp?

I bought a Feliks Espressivo MK II (one of the last few sale units before it's completely out of stock due to being discontinued) and I even plugged the Empyrean into it, which I can tell isn't being 100% driven to full potential. It gets loud enough but I think there's some impedance mismatching there. However, it still sounds fantastic. I have a friend who swears by the Feliks Euforia and the Empyrean.

I have an Abyss, which I know the Euforia will not power, but I do have a GS-X Mini that I could feed the Euforia into as a pre-amp. Wondering if someone has tried feeding it into the amp I have or a similar one.


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## elrey

Hello.
I have a question regarding how Euforia uses the tubes. I understand that the PSVane and soviet 6H13C are dual-triode tubes. So my question is: Does the Euforia uses both triodes on each tube? Or it just uses one triode per tube?
Moreover, What function have the second triode? (if it is in use). I have seen that both triodes are in use in amps such as Tor (one tube amp). In that case, my brain can process the idea of one channel per triode, but I don't understand how the Euforia works.

What do you think?


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## L0rdGwyn

elrey said:


> Hello.
> I have a question regarding how Euforia uses the tubes. I understand that the PSVane and soviet 6H13C are dual-triode tubes. So my question is: Does the Euforia uses both triodes on each tube? Or it just uses one triode per tube?
> Moreover, What function have the second triode? (if it is in use). I have seen that both triodes are in use in amps such as Tor (one tube amp). In that case, my brain can process the idea of one channel per triode, but I don't understand how the Euforia works.
> 
> What do you think?



I believe both triodes of the 6SN7 are run in parallel on the input.  This means the same voltage gain of a single triode is maintained, but the output impedance of the stage is cut in half.  On the output, the two halves of the 6AS7G are run as parallel cathode followers.  Again, this halves the output impedance, now connected to your headphones.  Using a single triode of a dual triode tube, and leaving the other unused but heated, will damage the unused section over time.


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## mordy

L0rdGwyn said:


> I believe both triodes of the 6SN7 are run in parallel on the input.  This means the same voltage gain of a single triode is maintained, but the output impedance of the stage is cut in half.  On the output, the two halves of the 6AS7G are run as parallel cathode followers.  Again, this halves the output impedance, now connected to your headphones.  Using a single triode of a dual triode tube, and leaving the other unused but heated, will damage the unused section over time.


I remember Feliks stating that having a pair of dual triode drivers wired in parallel yields better sound than using just one dual triode.
As I have both the Feliks Euforia and another amp that uses a single dual triode as driver for both channels I am not so convinced that there is a real benefit in having parallel wired dual triodes over a single dual triode. In addition, you will always need to buy a pair of tubes instead of just one. Perhaps the benefit is cosmetic - having dual drivers instead of a single one is more symmetrical and looks better.


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## elrey

mordy said:


> I remember Feliks stating that having a pair of dual triode drivers wired in parallel yields better sound than using just one dual triode.
> As I have both the Feliks Euforia and another amp that uses a single dual triode as driver for both channels I am not so convinced that there is a real benefit in having parallel wired dual triodes over a single dual triode. In addition, you will always need to buy a pair of tubes instead of just one. Perhaps the benefit is cosmetic - having dual drivers instead of a single one is more symmetrical and looks better.


Considering how difficult it is to match dual triodes, I really hope that there is a real benefit.


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## connieflyer

elrey said:


> Considering how difficult it is to match dual triodes, I really hope that there is a real benefit.


Tubes do not have to be matched to be effective


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## elrey

connieflyer said:


> Tubes do not have to be matched to be effective


What do you mean? I am by no means an expert, but intuitively I would expect a pair to be at least similar to not have differences between L and R channels.


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## mordy

elrey said:


> What do you mean? I am by no means an expert, but intuitively I would expect a pair to be at least similar to not have differences between L and R channels.


I concur with connieflyer - tube matching may be necessary in certain applications but not the way most people use them in their headphone amps.
Even in the tube era, a 10% difference in measurements was considered well within expected tolerances. A HeadFier who has his own calibrated tube tester bought a lot of 8 NOS tubes. When he measured them he found 7 to be NOS and one tube measuring below minimum. I asked him to take a good one and the one that measured below good and listen if he could hear any difference.
To his great surprise he could not hear any difference! IMHO tube matching pushed by some vendors is just another way to charge more for the tubes and not necessary at all.
It could be argued that a tube that measures NOS will last longer than one that does not measure so well, but tubes usually last for many years before they wear out. Some people report using the same tubes 10-20 years and there is still life left in them.


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## L0rdGwyn (Jun 14, 2021)

mordy said:


> I remember Feliks stating that having a pair of dual triode drivers wired in parallel yields better sound than using just one dual triode.
> As I have both the Feliks Euforia and another amp that uses a single dual triode as driver for both channels I am not so convinced that there is a real benefit in having parallel wired dual triodes over a single dual triode. In addition, you will always need to buy a pair of tubes instead of just one. Perhaps the benefit is cosmetic - having dual drivers instead of a single one is more symmetrical and looks better.



It's hard to say if the sound is noticeably better with parallel triodes, you would have to try it in the same circuit.  If someone was willing to rewire their Euforia such that a single dual triode drove both output tubes, then maybe we'd have an answer!

From a design standpoint, the two advantages of paralleling triodes in a gain stage are 1) lower output impedance / higher current to drive the output stage and 2) lower noise floor.  #1 doesn't matter much in an amplifier that uses a cathode follower output, like Elise / Euforia.  A cathode follower is a buffer, an easy load for most any triode to drive with a high input impedance and low input capacitance, it could easily be driven by a single section of a 6SN7.

Assuming the noise floor was already low, hard to say how much audible effect #2 would have.  This is more beneficial in high-gain designs that require a low noise floor, like a phono stage.


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## Deleeh

As I once read in this post.
With the Feliks, it should not be necessary to buy a made pair.
Some here have also bought used tubes and given no nominal differences.
If the offer is good say you pay 5-15$\€ more you have to decide for yourself.
At 5$\€ I would say yes it doesn't matter if the tube costs 10$/€ or 150$/€.
When I bought my Lin Lai 6SN7 the people at Grant Fidelty said that because it is a driver tube it is not even necessary to take the top grade 10% and use the normal standard one that comes from the factory that has already been measured.

Of course, top grade 10% is something else, but they made sure that they took a couple of tubes where the values are halfway compatible, which is usually the case when the tubes are of good quality.

From this point of view, a matched driver pair doesn't really matter.
With the 6AS7G or 6080, I would pay more attention to this, but also not let the dealer get away with it.

Personally, I think that what you have mentioned becomes more noticeable when the tube is nearing the end of its life.Often it is then too late anyway, because the tube then also causes other disturbances.

The whole thing is supposed to be rather mytic and probably affects much more the old devices from the 50-60-70-80s.
From the 90s onwards, you can say that electronics got better, also in terms of quality.
As well as today and Feliks didn't necessarily use crap as you can see.
Apart from the sound it produces, it was also built quite solidly.
In the worst case, you can also ask Feliks themselves what they think.
Since they built it, they will surely have a competent answer to your question that can be trusted.

From a purely electronic point of view, it is more resilient today than it used to be, but it tends to be more susceptible to failure.
It used to be the other way round, you couldn't overload it which in turn affected the vulnerability and so didn't cause failure.
Apart from that, you can ride better peaks because of the circuitry and so on.
Somewhere, in the end, everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

Apart from that, Feliks still assembled it by hand without a machine, which also means that everything was checked again for measured values, function, load capacity and so on.


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## Yoram Diamand

Hi this is the combo Lin Lai Elite 6sn7 with 7236 tubes, Feliks Euforia/ Meze Empyrean. Lavricables Grand Litz after market cable. I did lift one tube up as to give the tubes some space to breathe. The sound is very nice. I am hooked.


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## incredulousity

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi this is the combo Lin Lai Elite 6sn7 with 7236 tubes, Feliks Euforia/ Meze Empyrean. Lavricables Grand Litz after market cable. I did lift one tube up as to give the tubes some space to breathe. The sound is very nice. I am hooked.


My Euforia AE is no less of a dust magnet!


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## Deleeh

Looks good, are these the Tubemonger socket savers?

I have installed both side by side, it is tight but still sufficient.
Wouldn't one socket saver have been enough?

How do you like the sound of the Lin Lai's?


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## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Looks good, are these the Tubemonger socket savers?
> 
> I have installed both side by side, it is tight but still sufficient.
> Wouldn't one socket saver have been enough?
> ...


https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001995140575.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2e634c4dCKwv2A It was just a bit better (I thought) with 2 instead of 1. The sound is better than PSVANE cv 181-II. But I am just learning, getting to know them. I like more records with LinLai. I understood the idea was ACME quality for a reasonable price. Lots of airy space. Kind regards Yoram


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## Deleeh

Sounds good.
I'm curious what you think of them when you've spent more time with them.
The socketsavers look good, I'm thinking of ordering some.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

https://www.qobuz.com/nl-nl/album/h...as-yo-yo-ma-emanuel-ax/utuyvjb0eb8ac?qref=bsk This is a record I did not like wiith PSVANE CV 181-II but which is lovely with LINLAI and as it is good music I am happy


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## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> https://www.qobuz.com/nl-nl/album/h...as-yo-yo-ma-emanuel-ax/utuyvjb0eb8ac?qref=bsk This is a record I did not like wiith PSVANE CV 181-II but which is lovely with LINLAI and as it is good music I am happy


Yes, that's the musical thing I mentioned in my rewiev.
There is simply much more music to be heard, more caressing in the ears.
Also this touch of warmth that you somehow feel from the flow of the music.
I just missed that in the Ps vane, it was just too linear and a bit too cool for me.

It seemed to me as if all the instruments in the orchestra had been replaced in one sentence.

You spent more time with the Euforia than I did.
And it's nice to hear that in the relatively short time you've had the tubes, you see it similarly.
And suddenly you also find pieces of music that you don't like so much now do.

What headphones do you actually listen to with the Euforia?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Yes, that's the musical thing I mentioned in my rewiev.
> There is simply much more music to be heard, more caressing in the ears.
> Also this touch of warmth that you somehow feel from the flow of the music.
> I just missed that in the Ps vane, it was just too linear and a bit too cool for me.
> ...


Meze Empyrean with Lavricables Grand Litz cable and Ayre QB-9 Twenty


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> Meze Empyrean with Lavricables Grand Litz cable and Ayre QB-9 Twenty


Ouuff yes, that's quite a headphone, 👍.Nice Endgame


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Ouuff yes, that's quite a headphone, 👍.Nice Endgame


I am 53 years old, it's my age, in stead of a house or a motor cycle


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## JTbbb

Yoram Diamand said:


> I am 53 years old, it's my age, in stead of a house or a motor cycle



Or a wife 😂


----------



## Yoram Diamand




----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have a question for you.
What about using the Euforia in the summer?
Sometimes I would like to listen to it during the day, but when it is currently 35-40 degrees, I have some concerns.
In the flat I have sometimes felt up to 30 degrees.
That's why I'm a bit worried and prefer to listen to music in the evening when it's cooler and open a window to let in some fresh air.

Would it be better not to turn it on during the day?

The instructions also said that you should use it between 15-30 degrees.

I had also considered adding a fan, but that's not necessarily ideal.


----------



## mordy

I have the Euforia and it can get quite hot in the summer, especially using 6080 tubes. Heat is the enemy of electronics, and I use a couple of methods to reduce the heat in the amplifier.
1) Socket savers act as insulators and also save wear and tear on the sockets if you keep on changing the tubes.
2) I use two 4" USB fans, blowing air on the tubes and the transformer. These fans are quiet, USB powered and inexpensive and also come with a speed controller.



3) You can also use tube coolers. These are little devices that clamp on to the tubes and remove heat by adding a radiating surface to the tube. However, these devices are somewhat expensive and cumbersome to use, and what is on the market today require differerent sizes for different tubes. This is not a recommended solution.

Using the socket savers and the USB fans I have no problem with cooling even the hottest days and leaving the amp on for many hours.


----------



## Deleeh

mordy said:


> I have the Euforia and it can get quite hot in the summer, especially using 6080 tubes. Heat is the enemy of electronics, and I use a couple of methods to reduce the heat in the amplifier.
> 1) Socket savers act as insulators and also save wear and tear on the sockets if you keep on changing the tubes.
> 2) I use two 4" USB fans, blowing air on the tubes and the transformer. These fans are quiet, USB powered and inexpensive and also come with a speed controller.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Thank you for your answer.
Yoram posted a good link for the socketsavers that make a good figure.
Where do you get a fan like the one you have?

I also use 6080 tubes and they are very warm indeed, and as you said, even more so in the summer.
In autumn, winter and spring it's not so bad when I open the window, which is enough for the electronics to recover.

I have already thought about fans to be able to dissipate the heat better.
I thought it would be ideal if the air from above also flowed in through the holes and came out again at the bottom.
But I'm not sure about this method because you also dissipate the heat from the tubes downwards and it might really cause a heat build-up.


----------



## shafat777

For those of you concerned about possible overheating of your Euforia/Elise amp, heres my solution. 

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...eywords=ac+infinity+s8&qid=1624058505&sr=8-17 

I have my Elise sititng on top of this. I use this FLIPPED upside down so its sucking air from the bottom of the Elise and exhausting it from the side. It keeps my Elise nice and cool no matter how long i run it for. Since its pulling air from the top of the amp, it also cools the tubes in a certain way. Give it a shot. Hope this helps


----------



## connieflyer

As I see it, pulling air down through the amp, you are pulling the hot air from the tubes, down into the chaises where all the vulnerable components are.  If I needed to use a fan, I would put one beneath the amp, and blow up through the vent holes on the top.  You would still get air flow past the tubes, but would not put any extraneous heat on the components. Using the Gu 50 tubes, the amp never gets hot. 6080 and 6as7's are notorious for heat production.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> As I see it, pulling air down through the amp, you are pulling the hot air from the tubes, down into the chaises where all the vulnerable components are.  If I needed to use a fan, I would put one beneath the amp, and blow up through the vent holes on the top.  You would still get air flow past the tubes, but would not put any extraneous heat on the components. Using the Gu 50 tubes, the amp never gets hot. 6080 and 6as7's are notorious for heat production.


Here is what I have - one fan is positioned to blow on the transformer and the other on the tubes. (Amazon has the same price).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/231201775605?hash=item35d4b31ff5:g:GU4AAOSwHjNV~IgP
These fans are light weight and quiet and you can hang them on something if you encounter vibrations when placed on a surface. A more powerful USB adapter will make them run faster - there is also a speed control.


----------



## jurumal

I have a ZMF Verite Closed I'd like to try on a Feliks amp. The closest audio store I know of in my area is Upscale Audio, but they currently do not have any weekend accommodations for demos. I'm only free on the weekends to travel to an audio store. I understand if anyone reading this would be against this I idea I'm going to propose, but I'm asking if anyone in the LA/Orange/Riverside/San Bernardino counties would allow me to try a Feliks amp in exchange for listening time with a ZMF VC. I can provide a timestamp with my VC to prove I'm serious. Please PM if interested.

Alternatively, if anyone knows if there's an audio store in the aforementioned counties besides Upscale Audio that has a tube amp for demo, please let me know.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question for the cognoscenti (I'm looking at you @mordy, @OctavianH and others) is the 6BL7 octal power tube drop in compatible with Euforia / Elise. They seem plentiful and affordable compared to 6AS7G / 5998 / 6080 so interested in trying if electrically compatible. Thanks for any info.!


----------



## Deleeh

hello,
My second pair of Lin Lai E-6SN7s arrived this week.
Again ordered from Grant Fidelity.
Same quality as the first pair.

Just need to burn them in, currently I have a pair of 6080 General Electric that also need to be burned in.

First impression the 6080 from General Electric are not bad together with the Lin Lai.
But I need some time.


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> Question for the cognoscenti (I'm looking at you @mordy, @OctavianH and others) is the 6BL7 octal power tube drop in compatible with Euforia / Elise. They seem plentiful and affordable compared to 6AS7G / 5998 / 6080 so interested in trying if electrically compatible. Thanks for any info.!


I have not used any 6BL7 but from what I read about them they "should" be compatible. I would say only that you might need an external powe supply for them because they need 1.5A for the heater. There are others who tried them, so I will let them conclude.


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> I have not used any 6BL7 but from what I read about them they "should" be compatible. I would say only that you might need an e*xternal powe supply for them because they need 1.5A* for the heater. There are others who tried them, so I will let them conclude.


Thanks, @Octavian. Not clear why 1.5A heater current would require external as it's less than KT88, for example, which is 1.6A and Elise handles fine. Am I missing something?


----------



## nykobing

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks, @Octavian. Not clear why 1.5A heater current would require external as it's less than KT88, for example, which is 1.6A and Elise handles fine. Am I missing something?


I remember something about the 6BL7 not sounding that good with a single tube on each side and that people started to enjoy it when they were used in quads.


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks, @Octavian. Not clear why 1.5A heater current would require external as it's less than KT88, for example, which is 1.6A and Elise handles fine. Am I missing something?


No, only that you remain with 3,5-4A for the rest and the previous post.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Question for the cognoscenti (I'm looking at you @mordy, @OctavianH and others) is the 6BL7 octal power tube drop in compatible with Euforia / Elise. They seem plentiful and affordable compared to 6AS7G / 5998 / 6080 so interested in trying if electrically compatible. Thanks for any info.!


The 6BL7 is drop in compatible with the Euforia/Elise amps. Each tube draws 1.5A so you would need two pairs (with dual adapters) for each channel to approximate the 2.5A draw of the 6AS7/6080 family of tubes. Using just one pair may not be enough power for the amp.
I think that the Euforia can handle a total of 7A and the Elise a little less (around 6.5A if I remember correctly). You have to add up the total current draw of all the tubes that you are using to make sure that you do not exceed the 7A.
If you are using a pair of 6SN7 tubes as drivers the current draw is 2 x 0.6A = 1.2A + 4 x 1.5A for a total of 7.2A which is beyond the recommended maximum current draw and could result in overheating the amp.
It is possible that adding an external  fan, cooling the amp and transformer, will bring down the operating temperature to make it safe, but I don't think that the Feliks people will approve of it.
If you use driver tubes will less current draw, for example 0.3A, it should be OK.
Another way of doing it is to use an external power supply for the power tubes.
A further consideration is that the multiplification factor (mu) for 6BL7 is 15, compared to 2 for a 6AS7 tube and 2.5 for a 6080 tube. The 5998 has an mu of 5.5.
For practical purposes the higher multiplification factor in power tubes means that the amp plays louder but I don't think that it makes a huge difference in the sound with the power tubes mentioned above. - It could make a much bigger difference with driver tubes where the mu factor can go up to 100 which may make certain tubes with high mu incompatible (causing distortion).
Finally, there is a very similar tube to the 6BL7 - the 6BX7. The main difference between the two is the multiplification factor which is 10 for the 6BX7 (and 15 for the 6BL7).
All the major manufacturers made these tubes - some people feel that the early Sylvania parallel plate tubes could be among the best sounding in these two categories.


----------



## connieflyer

I used them in my Elise many years ago. I used them both as singles and in dual sockets back then. It was so long ago. Paired with EL3N.  Did not like them with C3G. Take a look back to 2016, Mordy, Untilthen, PCTZP, and many others tried these combos, but my favorites with Elise were the six pack of EL3N's .  See this page  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-590#post-12441317 and here also https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/page-485#post-12297869 many users back then.


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## connieflyer (Jun 27, 2021)

I put a pair of 6bl 7 in and let them warm up for an hour. Have not used them in several years. Pair them with well-used kt77 and I am very surprised at the sound. Plenty of volume on the Sennheiser 800 and Oppo pm-1.  Sound is very engaging


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## Deleeh

Hello,
Today my Euforia went dead on the left channel when I plugged in the headphones.

I switched it on normally and waited 15 minutes and then plugged in the headphones and the left channel didn't work.

Because I changed the tubes I thought that one had failed.
So I took them all out and put in another pair of 6080 and 6SN7, switched it on again and waited 15 minutes and again the left channel was off.

When I pull the plug out slowly, the right channel goes out and the left channel comes back on.
I therefore rule out the possibility that it is due to the tubes, which are new, that one has failed.

My question now is: Is it a disease of the Euforia that the headphone socket goes out?

I usually plug the headphones out with feeling before I switch it off, and after it has warmed up for 15 minutes.
I think it's because the jack has been disconnected by plugging it in and out.

Someone here had the same problem the other day, but it was out of warranty, I think.

I wanted to know if it happens more often that the headphone jack is broken or if it's just a coincidence.
Since I still have warranty, it will probably be sent in and could then clarify with Feliks whether there is a possibility to install a "better" headphone jack if it is a disease.

I assume that nothing else has broken as a result.
I won't switch it on again until it has been repaired.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Today my Euforia went dead on the left channel when I plugged in the headphones.
> 
> I switched it on normally and waited 15 minutes and then plugged in the headphones and the left channel didn't work.
> ...



Mine did exactly the same. It was a combination of the jack plug socket not holding up very well, and a switching unit on the headphone socket pcb failing. This switching unit connects the LH and RH channels to the headphones, sometime after switching on to allow the tubes to warm up.

Check my previous posts for the full story. My jack socket was replaced with a higher quality one and obviously the switch unit. My amp was 14 months old when this occurred.


----------



## mordy

JTbbb said:


> Mine did exactly the same. It was a combination of the jack plug socket not holding up very well, and a switching unit on the headphone socket pcb failing. This switching unit connects the LH and RH channels to the headphones, sometime after switching on to allow the tubes to warm up.
> 
> Check my previous posts for the full story. My jack socket was replaced with a higher quality one and obviously the switch unit. My amp was 14 months old when this occurred.


I only want to add that to prevent such ocurrencies I use a little headphone extension cable that is always plugged into the amp. When I switch headphones I plug it into the little extension and when it wears out (happened once so far) it is no big deal to change it.
Hoping you get back your amp fixed soon - hard to live without listening to music...


----------



## Deleeh

Hello, @mordy 
Yes, these are good tips.
I will think about it.
I still have the Singxer Sda 2 and the Little Dot 1+, I think I will survive.
I rather hope that it will be done before the summer break.

@JTbbb 

Do you happen to know what was used for the exchange?
I read your post the other day and thought exactly what you said and hoped it was that and not one of the tubes that had gone.
I'll talk to Feliks about it anyway, maybe the one from the AE would be better if that could be possible.

And thanks for your answers guys,👍✌️


----------



## JTbbb

mordy said:


> I only want to add that to prevent such ocurrencies I use a little headphone extension cable that is always plugged into the amp. When I switch headphones I plug it into the little extension and when it wears out (happened once so far) it is no big deal to change it.
> Hoping you get back your amp fixed soon - hard to live without listening to music...



I use such an extension lead myself and have done so prior to the failure, but I bought the amp when it was seven months old so can’t vouch for it’s previous usage. The switching unit failure may or may not be associated with frequency of socket use.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello, @mordy
> Yes, these are good tips.
> I will think about it.
> I still have the Singxer Sda 2 and the Little Dot 1+, I think I will survive.
> ...



My amp is the AE. Mine was repaired here in the uk. I don’t know which socket was used for replacement, but if you need to know, I will ask the question. Ultimately though it was the switching unit that failed.


----------



## Deleeh (Jun 27, 2021)

JTbbb said:


> I use such an extension lead myself and have done so prior to the failure, but I bought the amp when it was seven months old so can’t vouch for it’s previous usage. The switching unit failure may or may not be associated with frequency of socket use.


Hmm yes, you are right again.

I have put in a good 900 hours, if not more, since I bought it.
Most of it is due to the tubes burning in.
It has to happen with the last set of all things 🙈.
I can't say in general how often I have plugged in and out.
It will certainly have been 100 -200 times.
The heat probably also plays a role when it is warm.

On the other hand, it's not a bad idea to give it a check-up when it goes in for repair.
That way, Feliks can improve her quality again.

The cable as a small extension is a good idea.
I will have some made or do it myself.
That will save the socket in the future.
Even though I'm more of a fan of a direct connection.

Just out of interest, it would certainly be good to know which one was installed.
Perhaps the quality would be better 😇


----------



## LoryWiv (Jun 28, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> I put a pair I'm 6bl 7 in and let them warm up for an hour. Have not used them in several years. Pair them with well-used kt77 and I am very surprised at the sound. Plenty of volume on the Sennheiser 800 and Oppo pm-1. Sound is very engaging


Thanks @connieflyer, @OctavianH  and @mordy. Always looking for affordable tubes to experiment with that are compatible with Elise. 6BL7 / 6BX7 officially added to the list. As an aside, with the exception of 6V6 (0.3 A). I generally don't find alternate power tubes to sound underpowered, in fact I have some Mullard EL37 which draw 1.5A as do the 6BL7 and their output is quite robust!


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hmm yes, you are right again.
> 
> I have put in a good 900 hours, if not more, since I bought it.
> Most of it is due to the tubes burning in.
> ...



Hi Deleeh,

I’ve contacted Dave from Classic Valve Amps, and here is his reply.

Hi Jeff,
Nice to hear from you, hope the Euforia is still working well. The one I fitted in your unit was manufactured by Neutrik, but I had to modify the pins slightly to fit the miniature PCB. If you were recommending one for a colleague to fit then I would go with Luksasz's standard fitment e.g.   https://shop.fender.com/en-GB/parts...tereo-amplifier-jack/0990913000.html?rl=en_US which will go straight in. Its not an easy job mind, and involves removing the front plate, removing the miniature PCB and un-soldering the jack socket from the PCB  etc. 

Hope that helps,
Many Thanks,

Dave


----------



## Deleeh

JTbbb said:


> Hi Deleeh,
> 
> I’ve contacted Dave from Classic Valve Amps, and here is his reply.
> 
> ...


Hello,
super thanks,
Seems neat if it's from Fender.
From the sound of it, it doesn't seem easy to install according to his instructions.

There is no big news at the moment.
I have written to Lukasz to ask him if I can send it directly to him.
I hope so.
Because here in Germany the dealer has sent me the label.
They want to check what's wrong and possibly repair it themselves, and if not, it will go to the distributor, who will then send it to Poland.
That's probably about 3 weeks where it's just unpacked, looked at, packed and sent on.
And in the end, it might be even more broken than it actually is.

I'm just waiting for Lukasz's feedback for the direct route.
And also to avoid further damage that can then be passed on to me.
Because it's never the dealer's fault .

I hope that I get a label because the shipping to Poland is very expensive, just under 125€, ouch.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> super thanks,
> Seems neat if it's from Fender.
> From the sound of it, it doesn't seem easy to install according to his instructions.
> ...



Yes, same problem as you…shipping costs! I was fortunate finding Classic Valve Amps, which was still a 180 mile round trip to deliver and collect. Perhaps you might find an establishment near to you that could repair your amp?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

It's done.
Lukasz has replied and offered to take the direct route.
Which, to be honest, I prefer.
Since you can identify the problem sooner and may already have a solution. And you can also check the Euforia if there is more to it.

The shipping costs were for express delivery. That was my mistake.
I just took it to the post office and paid €50 insured.

It will take a while until it will be back.
But never mind, next week I'll be away on business.
Maybe it will be repaired quickly and will be back with me this week.

Sending it to England would probably have cost a bit more.
If necessary, it would have been the last address if all the strikers had broken.

Thanks for your help, I'll order one of those parts in case it happens again. If I find someone in the area who can solder it, I'll have it there already.


----------



## hillbilly559

If it's been mentioned here before I missed it, but I received an email from Lukasz that he's developing for release this year, a 300B fully balanced amp

I can't wait until see what that's all about!


----------



## connieflyer

I have dealt with Lukasz and brother in the past, and he did the same for me.  It was on my first Euphoria, serial number 0005 , left channel went out. Also sent him pictures of the circuit board, and thought the work was not up to par. He agreed,  it was one of the first amps and they got in a rush with all the new amps. He not only repaired the channel out but upgraded all the components to then current circuits. Solder was much better. His service and friendly emails over the years convinced me to buy the AE when it came out. Happy I did. Compared both amps for a couple of months before I sold the Euphoria.  Not a huge difference, but found, that when it was time for music,  I would turn on the AE more often until a couple of weeks went by without turning on the original, so sold it at that point. They have a quality product and stand behind their amps.


----------



## connieflyer

The man himself from a couple of years ago


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> I have dealt with Lukasz and brother in the past, and he did the same for me.  It was on my first Euphoria, serial number 0005 , left channel went out. Also sent him pictures of the circuit board, and thought the work was not up to par. He agreed,  it was one of the first amps and they got in a rush with all the new amps. He not only repaired the channel out but upgraded all the components to then current circuits. Solder was much better. His service and friendly emails over the years convinced me to buy the AE when it came out. Happy I did. Compared both amps for a couple of months before I sold the Euphoria.  Not a huge difference, but found, that when it was time for music,  I would turn on the AE more often until a couple of weeks went by without turning on the original, so sold it at that point. They have a quality product and stand behind their amps.


Hello,
Thank you for the kind information.
They will be in touch when the amplifier arrives and everything is repaired.
There was no more information exchange.

I also think that he did not want to commit himself without looking over it.
Which is perfectly fine.

And I assume that Feliks has probably already found a solution.
Or already know one and will then gradually replace the component, possibly even with a more robust one.

The communication was kept short, probably for time reasons, but everything was within the framework and totally uncomplicated on their part.
So I have complete trust in them, and they also wrote their own instructions and not system-based ones like the big manufacturers.
That is also commendable.
Also your statement that they stand behind their amplifiers, that's exactly the feeling I have.
That has become rare in the meantime.

The appeal of the Ae would be there and I thought about asking if they would keep the Euforia and send me the Ae for a surcharge, or if they would convert it to Ae, but in the end I let it go.😊

To my ears, the Euforia sounds just right with the tubes, so I thought I'd leave it as it is.
I also lacked a bit of comparison, so I might have regretted it.
Otherwise, I am really satisfied with the little beast and enjoy it very much, especially with the Lcd2 C.

I don't want to overestimate the failure too much, it happens even to the best manufacturers like Macintosh.
They also allegedly have problems with the volume poti and deliveries.

It's a bit unfortunate because it's currently cooler outside in terms of temperatures, but I'll have enough days like this.
I'm looking forward to holding it in my hands again and enjoying the music.😊
And I know that everything is OK so far.

I ordered a cable from a manufacturer where the 6.3 jack will stay in and the other end of the cable has a 6.3 mm input.
This way, the jack can be protected a little better.
I have also ordered socketsavers and the increase in height will probably also reduce the heat on the circuit board a little, I think.
And about this cooling plate that the forum member posted the other day, I'm still thinking about whether I'll buy it.

There were very helpful tips and suggestions here from some forum members that I took to heart, thanks again for that.👍✌️👍✌️


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Thank you for the kind information.
> They will be in touch when the amplifier arrives and everything is repaired.
> There was no more information exchange.
> ...


I also have a feeling that Lukasz reads this thread as well....


----------



## ThanatosVI

Hey Feliks amp lovers.
On the website it states that Feliks also specializes in custom amps for their customers.
Did anyone in here ever contact them for a custom amp?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
not from my side.
try to send a Email and ask what is her special.


----------



## ThanatosVI

hillbilly559 said:


> If it's been mentioned here before I missed it, but I received an email from Lukasz that he's developing for release this year, a 300B fully balanced amp
> 
> I can't wait until see what that's all about!


Me too, I was thinking about getting a Woo Wa33 but now I will definitely wait for the Feliks 300B amp.

Did he give you any more Info like which preamp and rectifier tubes will be used?


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> Me too, I was thinking about getting a Woo Wa33 but now I will definitely wait for the Feliks 300B amp.
> 
> Did he give you any more Info like which preamp and rectifier tubes will be used?


This is not what i need to hear. Lubing up the wallet now…


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> This is not what i need to hear. Lubing up the wallet now…


Yes prepare the wallet!

For my wallet this might even be the better situation,  the Woo probably will have the higher price tag...

I'm seriously hyped for the Feliks 300B, still hope that it is at the end of the year. My wallet needs some rest after the january purchases as well.


----------



## incredulousity

I hope they built it to the exceptional standards of the Euforia AE.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I hope they built it to the exceptional standards of the Euforia AE.


They want it to be their new flagship,  surpassing the Euforia AE.

Pretty sure they will have their highest Standards for this amp.


----------



## connieflyer

If it comes from Feliks Audio, it will be top tier, regardless.  They do not sell inferior products, they all have to measure up to their father's approval.  Great family to deal with,  I have been in touch with them for several years.  The Elise was the first amp of theirs I bought and never had a problem with it, but upgraded to the Euphoria when it came out.  Now have the AE and have been very satisfied with it and the family of course.  Just emailed them about another amp they had been working on before covid hit.  It was spectacular, hope it makes it to production.  They are a design house and this is where the Elise came to fruition,  with one of our founding forum writers HPNOS1.


----------



## mordy

ThanatosVI said:


> Me too, I was thinking about getting a Woo Wa33 but now I will definitely wait for the Feliks 300B amp.
> 
> Did he give you any more Info like which preamp and rectifier tubes will be used?


I do want to point out that all manufacturers are bound to use tubes that are in plentiful supply which usually means new production. And the experience of most tube rollers has been that old NOS tubes perform better than new production tubes, although there seems to be more solid contenders now among the new production tubes.
As an individual you only need a couple of tubes, but a manufacturer has to know that he can get as many as he needs.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mordy said:


> I do want to point out that all manufacturers are bound to use tubes that are in plentiful supply which usually means new production. And the experience of most tube rollers has been that old NOS tubes perform better than new production tubes, although there seems to be more solid contenders now among the new production tubes.
> As an individual you only need a couple of tubes, but a manufacturer has to know that he can get as many as he needs.


You're correct there.
What I meant were tube types not the exact tubes used.

By now I know it will be 6SN7 in the preamp section.


----------



## connieflyer

Contact with Lukasz yesterday, he said should be in demo hands in a few months and release is slated for this year.  Also the other project, that was dear to my heart was changed to the 300B project. The other was a beautiful amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> Contact with Lukasz yesterday, he said should be in demo hands in a few months and release is slated for this year.  Also the other project, that was dear to my heart was changed to the 300B project. The other was a beautiful amp.


Pretty sure the 300B Project will mske up for it.
And maybe they return to those other plans after the 300B Release.

I wonder how it will look and what the final price will be, but I never anticipated a new amp as much as this one before.


----------



## connieflyer

From what he says it should be a beautiful amplifier do some nice polish wood as well. I said as soon as he has photos available for distribution he'll send them to me I will post them here


----------



## Henrim

ThanatosVI said:


> Me too, I was thinking about getting a Woo Wa33 but now I will definitely wait for the Feliks 300B amp.
> 
> Did he give you any more Info like which preamp and rectifier tubes will be used?


Have you heard anything about the price point of this new amp? I'm assuming it'll be twice that on a standard Euforia, being a fully balanced 300B.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Have you heard anything about the price point of this new amp? I'm assuming it'll be twice that on a standard Euforia, being a fully balanced 300B.


No not yet. Only know that it will be more expensive than Euforia,  but that was obvious even without him mentioning it.


----------



## Henrim

ThanatosVI said:


> No not yet. Only know that it will be more expensive than Euforia,  but that was obvious even without him mentioning it.


Yeah okay.

I just pulled the trigger on a Euforia, can't wait! 

Are there any links to people's thoughts on various tubes with it? What are some of the best / most synergistic? I'm using Utopias and love a clean & detailed sound, but I'd also be interested in tubes good for natural tambre, or punch, soudstage, or anything that is a good pairing.


----------



## Deleeh

Congratulations,
Did you buy it with standard tubes or without and still need some?

If you go back a few pages, you will certainly find some suggestions.
But be careful that you are also talking about the conversions.
6080 6as7g and 6sn7 are the standard tubes.
Kt,El 6v6c tubes are then the conversions.

Lin lai as 6sn7 with the 6080 Mullard or Sylvania I find a very good combination.
If you want something more forward then the Lin Lai's with the 6080 General Electric tube.


----------



## myphone (Jul 11, 2021)

There is a review of Feliks Arioso 300 B SET amp (US$6466) in August 2021 Stereophile magazine. The reviewer Herb Reichert quite likes it. It is an integrate speaker amp. No headphone function.


----------



## connieflyer

The previous project that they were working on that I was waiting for was a 2A3 amplifier.  This is from Lukasz's email to me recently.  "
The project evolved a bit into a different concept, with the power tubes changed to 300B and removing the stax amplification part, so that the amplifier should be significantly more affordable (and smaller too!). We're finalzing prototype work and will be sharing first units with some reviewers in 2-3 months time, launch planned for 2021. It will be also fully balanced xlr input/outputs and with 3 selectable audio sources. Chassis will be finished in beautiful oil-treated real wood."
So this is starting to sound very good to me also.  I really wanted a 2A3 amp, and their design was beautiful, but they changed it to 300B power and a redesign of the case of course. 300B is another classic design and will be a great addition, knowing Feliks quality and attention to detail.  They have a wonderful family business, and pops makes sure everything is just right before he approves things.  Would have loved to be a beta tester on this one.


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> The previous project that they were working on that I was waiting for was a 2A3 amplifier.  This is from Lukasz's email to me recently.  "
> The project evolved a bit into a different concept, with the power tubes changed to 300B and removing the stax amplification part, so that the amplifier should be significantly more affordable (and smaller too!). We're finalzing prototype work and will be sharing first units with some reviewers in 2-3 months time, launch planned for 2021. It will be also fully balanced xlr input/outputs and with 3 selectable audio sources. Chassis will be finished in beautiful oil-treated real wood."
> So this is starting to sound very good to me also.  I really wanted a 2A3 amp, and their design was beautiful, but they changed it to 300B power and a redesign of the case of course. 300B is another classic design and will be a great addition, knowing Feliks quality and attention to detail.  They have a wonderful family business, and pops makes sure everything is just right before he approves things.  Would have loved to be a beta tester on this one.


Now that I read about the Stax functionality I am Torn between what I would have preferred. 
A "all in one amp" from Feliks would have been great imo. However the cheaper price without Stax functionality is also nice 

Also curious about the design, at first I thought about something like the Arioso but this sounds like a significantly different design.


----------



## Deleeh

Seems like you are heading 
Audiovalve Luminare or Solaris.
Or is it a pure stereo amplifier


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Seems like you are heading
> Audiovalve Luminare or Solaris.
> Or is it a pure stereo amplifier


Neither of those use 6SN7 and 300Bs tho.


----------



## Henrim

myphone said:


> There is a review of Feliks Arioso 300 B SET amp (US$6466) in August 2021 Stereophile magazine. The reviewer Herb Reichert quite likes it. It is an integrate speaker amp. No headphone function.


ahh I did actually see his review, didn’t realise people were talking about the speaker amp.

Deleeh, I bought it with the Psvane tubes, but I’m keen to roll them and try different tubes out. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> ahh I did actually see his review, didn’t realise people were talking about the speaker amp.
> 
> Deleeh, I bought it with the Psvane tubes, but I’m keen to roll them and try different tubes out. Thanks for the recommendation!


Actually discussions are mixed.
Most of us talked about a new 300B headphone amp, which will be released later this year.


----------



## Henrim

I ended up ordering some Gold Lion KT88’s and adapters from Deyan. Very excited to see how this goes 😁


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> I ended up ordering some Gold Lion KT88’s and adapters from Deyan. Very excited to see how this goes 😁


For your Euforia?
Does that even work electrically?

Did you ask them if that is save to use?


----------



## Henrim (Jul 12, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> For your Euforia?
> Does that even work electrically?
> 
> Did you ask them if that is save to use?



I thought they are a common choice for the Euforia, see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-15343710

But yeah, I'm totally new to tube rolling and have no clue how to safely select tubes, (other than what FA quoted themselves and what others say have worked!) - more than happy to hear your 2 cents on the right approach.

edit: spelling


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> I thought they are a common choice for the Euforia, see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-15343710
> 
> But yeah, I'm totally new to tube rolling and have no clue how to safely select tubes, (other than what FA quoted themselves and what otherwise say have worked!) - more than happy to hear your 2 cents on the right approach.


I just found out about it through your post.
Seems to be 'ok' 

Honestly if I had known about that last year my amp journey would have been different. 

Important is to keep the total current consumption below 6.6A as far as I read.
Also probably best to double check if it is the same for Euforia and the AE.

So I throw my questions in here as well.
1. Where can I get the KT88 to 6N13S  adapters?
2. This should also work with EL34/KT77 right?
3. Does 6SN7 in the driver + KT88 in power slot work (anyone with experience here?)

The Euforia isn't crazy expensive,  I now really consider it as well.
Should sound noteably warmer and Tubey-er as my Octave.


----------



## Arcayne (Jul 12, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> I just found out about it through your post.
> Seems to be 'ok'
> 
> Honestly if I had known about that last year my amp journey would have been different.
> ...


I have a set of GL KT88s + adapters from ebay as I was curious about this roll as well. Unfortunately too much power output is lost when running quad KT88 for my Empyrean to be driven adequately. I do regularly listen at 80-85 dB SPL though, so if you're a quiet listener this might not be as much of an issue for you.

The quad KT88s pair spectacularly well with my HD580, though.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Arcayne said:


> To answer question #3; No, that won't work. 6sn7s will draw too much current.
> 
> I have a set of GL KT88s + adapters from ebay as I was curious about this roll as well. Unfortunately too much power output is lost when running quad KT88 for my Empyrean to be driven adequately. I do regularly listen at 80-85 dB SPL though, so if you're a quiet listener this might not be as much of an issue for you.
> 
> The quad KT88s pair spectacularly well with my HD580, though.


Too Bad 6SN7 + KT88 would have been interesting. 

On the other hand my wallet is relieved 😆

Thx for answering my questions


----------



## Henrim (Jul 12, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> Too Bad 6SN7 + KT88 would have been interesting.
> 
> On the other hand my wallet is relieved 😆
> 
> Thx for answering my questions



6SN7 works as a driver with the other stock tube, so it surprised me that it wouldn’t work as a driver with the KT88 (again, newbie here!)

Tube rolling is trickier than I thought, how am I supposed to know which combination of tubes are safe? 😂

edit: haha figuring out quotes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Tube rolling is trickier than I thought, how am I supposed to know which combination of tubes are safe? 😂


You have to research the specs of each tube type. To know which voltage and current needs they have. (Generally possible to Google it)

Then you have to know what max current etc is save to use in your amp. For this info you have to ask the manufacturer.

When using different sockets you also have to use the right adapters with correct pin out.

So yeah it can be rather complicated at first
Maybe I also forgot about Important aspects, I never rolled with adapters myself


----------



## barontan2418 (Jul 12, 2021)

Henrim said:


> 6SN7 works as a driver with the other stock tube, so it surprised me that it wouldn’t work as a driver with the KT88 (again, newbie here!)
> 
> Tube rolling is trickier than I thought, how am I supposed to know which combination of tubes are safe? 😂
> 
> edit: haha figuring out quotes.


----------



## Arcayne

Henrim said:


> Tube rolling is trickier than I thought, how am I supposed to know which combination of tubes are safe? 😂


Haha, I feel you. I'm still very much a noob with the technical side of tube-related things, but learning bit by bit as I go.

To be absolutely certain that you're safe, you just have to stick to the standard supported tube families, as listed in the user manual. Using tubes that aren't supported by default through the use of adapters is not encouraged nor supported by Feliks Audio, so if anything goes wrong, the cost to repair your amp will almost certainly have to come at your own expense.

As I understood it, the Euforia can provide a maximum of 7A across all 4 tube sockets. So when experimenting outside of the "comfort zone", you have to look at the data sheets of the tubes you plan to use (example: GL KT88 datasheet) to find out how much current each tube draws, defined as _Ih_ under the Heater specs. In this case, approx 1.6A per tube, so let's assume 1.7A to be safe. Add up the _Ih_ of all 4 tubes (4 * 1.7 = 6.8A), and that's how much current the tubes will be drawing from the amp. This should always be less than the maximum amount your amp accepts (7A for the Euforia), otherwise you need an external power source for it to work.

So you can be relatively assured that running 4x GL KT88 isn't a problem for the amp.

P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert either.


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> 6SN7 works as a driver with the other stock tube, so it surprised me that it wouldn’t work as a driver with the KT88 (again, newbie here!)
> 
> Tube rolling is trickier than I thought, how am I supposed to know which combination of tubes are safe? 😂
> 
> edit: haha figuring out quotes.


Hello,
I wouldn't go for a direct conversion at the price of the amplifier as long as it still has a 3-year warranty.

Even though I understand that it should sound "tubey", I would have bought something else like the Quicksilver or Woo Audio, maybe the Tor audio Balanced.

In the half year I have had the Euforia I have always stuck to the original tube types.
Significant difference was that the 6AS7G like to mask.
Where as the 6080's are better and swapping the Ps vane to Lin lai Elite series was huge.
For me they are totally sufficient and sound better than a solid state amp when it comes to resolution.

Keep in mind that the Euforia needs to be burned in for the first few hours.
It would not be good if you put too much strain on it right from the start.
I only know that Feliks knows about the conversion and that the warranty does not cover it.
It is possible that they have found a way to check this.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jul 12, 2021)

Arcayne said:


> To answer question #3; No, that won't work. 6sn7s will draw too much current.
> 
> I have a set of GL KT88s + adapters from ebay as I was curious about this roll as well. Unfortunately too much power output is lost when running quad KT88 for my Empyrean to be driven adequately. I do regularly listen at 80-85 dB SPL though, so if you're a quiet listener this might not be as much of an issue for you.
> 
> The quad KT88s pair spectacularly well with my HD580, though.



In the provided sheet, the 6SN7 draw significantly less than the KT88 though.

Did I misunderstand something or did you by any chance mix up the requirements of the 6SN7 with those of the 6080? (0.6A vs 2.5A)

_




2x 0.6A + 2x 1.6A = 4.4A
Or is there more to it and drawing not enough current has other pitfalls?

or is the issue the gain and everything is way too silent in that configuration?

or could it be that the tubes are driven "too hard" and have significantly reduced life expectancy in that case?_


----------



## connieflyer

I have used the 6SN7 and KT88's for over a year now and find them good. I also used the KT77 as drivers and KT88's as power.  Also like this combo.  Using the 6BL7's as power and the stock 6SN7's as drivers.  Really like this combo


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jul 12, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> I have used the 6SN7 and KT88's for over a year now and find them good. I also used the KT77 as drivers and KT88's as power.  Also like this combo.  Using the 6BL7's as power and the stock 6SN7's as drivers.  Really like this combo


That sounds interesting, in theory it could even drive KT150 🤔

Or EL34 pre with KT88 power tubes. Damn the possibilities are endless.

I love my Octave,  maybe I should get a Demo unit of the Euforia AE to compare

How hot does the Euforia get?
Can you still touch it when it has been running for a few hours?

Woo Amps get very hot. My Octave only warm so that I can still comfortably touch it even after hours of use


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does the Euforia become more neutral and transparent or warmer and more tubey when using KT88 vs stock tubes?


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> Does the Euforia become more neutral and transparent or warmer and more tubey when using KT88 vs stock tubes?


The good thing about the Euforia is that its basic tuning is neutral.
And you also have the possibility to determine the tube rolling yourself.

In the end, you decide for yourself what you miss or lack.
No one can say that tube XY is so good, if your ears don't like it.
You can only share your impressions and help others to adjust their sound preferences.
That's all you can do.

This is also a bit expensive, especially with good and rare tubes.

I found the original Feliks tuning not wrong and it shines on dynamic headphones very well, especially in the higher price range.
For planar operation, however, it was only conditionally good.
But that is also a matter of taste, I found the mid and treble range on the planar headphones quite good, only the bass was lacking.

I tried other 6AS7G tubes, but they weren't my cup of tea, then I tried the 6080 tubes, which were better, but the final touch was still missing.
That only came with the exchange of the Ps vane against other 6SN7 tubes.
This process happened step by step and took time.
And somewhere you reach your limits, it has to be said.
You can't have everything and you have to make compromises, but if the main criteria are met, that's worth a lot.

Of course, the dac also plays a role and possibly the software dinman uses such as Audirvana 3.5 or Studio or Roon.
All of these things play together, not just the tube itself.

Therefore give the Euforia time after unpacking, pay attention to the burn in time, give the tubes time to burn in.
The enamel comes on its own when it is there and they are then also ripe.

Keep in mind the Euforia I find to be a sensitive charming polish girl who just needs enough love and is often satisfied with less than she needs to play up properly.
I love to hear the pairing with the Lcd 2C when the 6SN7 tubes from Lin Lai and the 6080 Mullards or Sylvania are fitted.
The nice rich bass, fabulous mids and highs that are very warm and full bodied.
And very musical tube pairings that always get under your skin.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> The good thing about the Euforia is that its basic tuning is neutral.
> And you also have the possibility to determine the tube rolling yourself.
> 
> In the end, you decide for yourself what you miss or lack.
> ...


So with the Stock tubes the Euforia is rather lean in the Bass, but with some Rolling you can get solid State like oomph back?

I really like KT88 sound and had several amps with those.
However they mostly rund 12au7 which are said to sound worse tha  6SN7.
With this new knowledge that the Euforia can potentially run both, I'm intrigued to try it. 

My headphones are all easy to drive, which makes the limited Power output less of an issue


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> The good thing about the Euforia is that its basic tuning is neutral.
> And you also have the possibility to determine the tube rolling yourself.
> 
> In the end, you decide for yourself what you miss or lack.
> ...


Thanks for your vivid and nice description of how it sounds!
Only want to add that the amp needs upwards of 150 hours of burn-in to sound it's best. That refers to the amp itself - then the individual tubes also need their time; 30-50 hours is a good rule, but some older tubes may need more or much more.


----------



## Arcayne

ThanatosVI said:


> In the provided sheet, the 6SN7 draw significantly less than the KT88 though.
> 
> Did I misunderstand something or did you by any chance mix up the requirements of the 6SN7 with those of the 6080? (0.6A vs 2.5A)
> 
> ...


You're right! I was mixed up between 6sn7 and 6080... My apologies!


----------



## Sunset1982

I had an euforia ae for loan this weekend. The bass was totaly overblown on my empyreans with bifrost 2 as a dac. same with topping e30. used pc, ipad and rpi streamer as a source. the rest of the sound spectrum was nice, bit the bass crackled like a broken speaker. any idea what the problem could be?


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> So with the Stock tubes the Euforia is rather lean in the Bass, but with some Rolling you can get solid State like oomph back?
> 
> I really like KT88 sound and had several amps with those.
> However they mostly rund 12au7 which are said to sound worse tha  6SN7.
> ...


My statement tended to refer to planar headphones and not to dynamic headphones as far as bass is concerned.
With dynamic headphones, everything is good and completely sufficient.

At least that was my impression.
And also obviously when you come down from solid state with the Lcd 2C you know what it can do.
It felt a bit bloodless, but you can get used to it, it's less fun and more unagitated.

On the Fostex Tr x00, on the other hand, it's a blast and no comparison.
So it's really fun.

@Sunset1982 

Good question, did the cabling fit? Usb and Rca cable?
It's probably not normal.
How did you connect it to the pc, notebook ? Power strip ok ?  
Otherwise, try reducing the overall volume on the PC/notebook from 100 to 90, maybe it's a slight clipping.
The driver may also be from the PC/notebook.

Have you changed the internal audio sampling of the PC?
There you can set how it should sample.
At the bottom right of the bar, right-click on the speaker and press Open Sound Settings.
When the window opens, click on Sound Control Panel on the right and select Bitfrost or E30 and click Properties.
In the new window in the grid, look for Advanced and then you can change the sampling mode and then save.


----------



## Arcayne

Sunset1982 said:


> I had an euforia ae for loan this weekend. The bass was totaly overblown on my empyreans with bifrost 2 as a dac. same with topping e30. used pc, ipad and rpi streamer as a source. the rest of the sound spectrum was nice, bit the bass crackled like a broken speaker. any idea what the problem could be?


How loud are you listening, what's the position of the volume knob?


----------



## LoryWiv

Arcayne said:


> *To answer question #3; No, that won't work. 6sn7s will draw too much current.*
> 
> I have a set of GL KT88s + adapters from ebay as I was curious about this roll as well. Unfortunately too much power output is lost when running quad KT88 for my Empyrean to be driven adequately. I do regularly listen at 80-85 dB SPL though, so if you're a quiet listener this might not be as much of an issue for you.
> 
> The quad KT88s pair spectacularly well with my HD580, though.


Respectfully, that is incorrect. 

KT-88's draw 1.6A = 3.2A / pair.
6SN7's draw 0.6A = 1.2A / pair
Total of 4.4A is well within Euforia's heater current handling
I have run various 6SN7's driving KT-88 many times with no adverse effects and often the result is excellent sound. As they say, YMMV.


----------



## Arcayne

LoryWiv said:


> Respectfully, that is incorrect.


Indeed, I was made aware of that earlier. Edited the post.


----------



## Henrim (Jul 12, 2021)

So just practising my new found skill - does this mean I can't use the stock PsVane 6N13S with the KT88?

6N13S draw 2.5A each (Iₕ in the datasheet)
KT88 draws 1.6A each.

So that's 8.2A in total, which is greater than the 7A capacity.

edit: this is based off this old datasheet linked below, which isn't for the PsVane 6N13S specifically. Can I assume all 6N13S tubes have the same Iₕ? And likewise for any other tube, whether that's KT88, 6SN7 or whatever.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/113/6/6N13S.pdf


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> So just practising my new found skill - does this mean I can't use the stock PsVane 6N13S with the KT88?
> 
> 6N13S draw 2.5A each (Iₕ in the datasheet)
> KT88 draws 1.6A each.
> ...


This conclusion is correct


----------



## Sunset1982

Arcayne said:


> How loud are you listening, what's the position of the volume knob?


was about 11 o clock, tried up to 1 or 2 but distortion was really bad


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 13, 2021)

Although my amp is Elise, not Euforia, they are electrically near identical and just wanted to confirm for all that 6L6 family powers (these are Sylvania VT-115A) and 6V6 family drivers (these are Tung-Sol 6V6GT) with appropriate adapters (mine are made by headfi-er @Deyan) work beautifully in the amp. They run cooler than stock tubes, can sound great with synergistic combinations, and look rather handsome IMO. It is true that to do so may void your warranty so it's not for the faint-hearted. But I've had a great time exploring these expanded tube rolling possibilities and enjoyed some glorious sound along the journey.


----------



## LoryWiv (Jul 13, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> I put a pair of 6bl 7 in and let them warm up for an hour. Have not used them in several years. Pair them with well-used kt77 and I am very surprised at the sound. Plenty of volume on the Sennheiser 800 and Oppo pm-1.  Sound is very engaging


@connieflyer, do the 6BL7 or related 6BX7 octals work "natively" in Euforia / Elise or are adapters required? Yours appear to be in socket savers only but wanted to verify befoire trying and blowing anything up!


----------



## incredulousity

Henrim said:


> So just practising my new found skill - does this mean I can't use the stock PsVane 6N13S with the KT88?
> 
> 6N13S draw 2.5A each (Iₕ in the datasheet)
> KT88 draws 1.6A each.
> ...



Yes, unless you use a socket saver which is powered, or powered KTXX adapters. I have the former, and a power supply, made by Deyan. 

Current config is KT88 as drivers, and dual KT88 and TS 5998 as powers. I could swap in the stock PSvane, but would need to add external power to those or the KT88. I have enough for six tubes, of any reasonable power.

With external tube power, the amp runs very cool as well.


----------



## Henrim

incredulousity said:


> Yes, unless you use a socket saver which is powered, or powered KTXX adapters. I have the former, and a power supply, made by Deyan.
> 
> Current config is KT88 as drivers, and dual KT88 and TS 5998 as powers. I could swap in the stock PSvane, but would need to add external power to those or the KT88. I have enough for six tubes, of any reasonable power.
> 
> With external tube power, the amp runs very cool as well.


man.... I think you're the crazinest of us all 

No kidding, that's awesome. I think I'd be too freaked out to get into external power.


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## connieflyer (Jul 14, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> @connieflyer, do the 6BL7 or related 6BX7 octals work "natively" in Euforia / Elise or are adapters required? Yours appear to be in socket savers only but wanted to verify befoire trying and b






LoryWiv said:


> lowing anything up!


https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2019/08/tube-of-month-6bx7.html
They are the exact same pinoutas-6sN7 they belong to the same class of tubes. That is in fact a socket saver that you see in the photo. I'm going to go back and try one of my old favorites in the Elise amplifier.  the Vt96 which is a 7n7 tube.  Both need adapters for those that are interested.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vt-96.html


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2019/08/tube-of-month-6bx7.html
> They are the exact same pinout sa-6s N7 they belong to the same class of tubes that is in fact a socket saver that you see in the photo. I'm going to go back and try to my old favorites in the
> Elise amplifier. The vt52  which is a 45 type  tube and the Vt96 which is a 7n7 tube


@connieflyer: Thank you my friend, sounds as if 6BL7 / 6BX7 can wok "natively" without adapter in either power slot (as you diddriven by KT77) or driver slot. 6BL7 / 6BX7 are quite affordable relative to other options. I may give them a go!!!


----------



## Henrim

How long do tubes generally last on the Euforia? Does it vary by type of tube?


----------



## connieflyer

Length of time is dependent on each individual tube.  I have had some failures, but not many.  Depends on the individual tube constrution, heat, how hard they are driven and luck of the game. Some amps go through tubes faster than others, and I would not ever say with any certaincy how long any tube will last. I even had a C3G burn out within 6 months in the Elise, and those are designed for long length reliable service.  So it is hard to quantify, I still have some tubes, some 5189 and 6j5's left from my first tube amp.


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 14, 2021)

Started out this morning with the Marconi VT52 manufactured in Feb 1945, they use an EL32 adapter.  They have over 120 hours on them, so are burned in well. Nice bass, female vocals are some of the best. Used these in the Elise, and first Euphoria for awhile. Now with the AE sound great.  Later will try the KENRAD VT 96. The VT96 needs an adapter, as it is an7N7 type


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> Started out this morning with the Marconi VT52 manufactured in Feb 1945, they use an EL32 adapter.  They have over 120 hours on them, so are burned in well. Nice bass, female vocals are some of the best. Used these in the Elise, and first Euphoria for awhile. Now with the AE sound great.  Later will try the KENRAD VT 96. The VT96 needs an adapter, as it is an7N7 type


So you had the Elise then the Euforia and now the Anniversary Edition. 

Can you give Brief impressions of the changes that one can expect between each of thosr?


----------



## connieflyer

Hard to remember difference in Elise, sold that before I got the Euforia.  The difference between the Euforia and the AE version, for me, comes down to clarity. Not a big difference, but had both connected for a few weeks and went back and forth, using one then the other, on same material. Would use one for a day or two and then switch to the other amp. I found after a few weeks, I was subconscously using the AE. I did this for a few more weeks, and by the last week, used the AE constantly.  Was it worth it?  That like sound is entirely dependent on the individual, for me it was more a better(?) overall experience. Subconsciene mind just went with the AE.  I don't worry myself about scientific tests, these will give you a ball park, but it is the individual hearing that has to rule out. What you hear and what I hear are never going to be exactly the same.  Would I buy the AE again after using for many months, compared to the standard model?  Absolutlely! To my hearing, it is just better. If you can, see if you can demo one for a week or so, even if you had to pay a fee, it would be worth it.


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Hard to remember difference in Elise, sold that before I got the Euforia.  The difference between the Euforia and the AE version, for me, comes down to clarity. Not a big difference, but had both connected for a few weeks and went back and forth, using one then the other, on same material. Would use one for a day or two and then switch to the other amp. I found after a few weeks, I was subconscously using the AE. I did this for a few more weeks, and by the last week, used the AE constantly.  Was it worth it?  That like sound is entirely dependent on the individual, for me it was more a better(?) overall experience. Subconsciene mind just went with the AE.  I don't worry myself about scientific tests, these will give you a ball park, but it is the individual hearing that has to rule out. What you hear and what I hear are never going to be exactly the same.  Would I buy the AE again after using for many months, compared to the standard model?  Absolutlely! To my hearing, it is just better. If you can, see if you can demo one for a week or so, even if you had to pay a fee, it would be worth it.


IMHO it takes time to form a more definitive impression of how an amp/tube combination sounds. I often found that the initial impression could be misleading in the long run and I also feel that subconsciously it takes sometimes a very long time to arrive at a true judgement of how you feel in relation to how it sounds.
For these reasons I am very skeptical when I read people’s impressions of cycling through a bunch of tubes after only listening a few minutes to each combination.


----------



## connieflyer

What I found was using one amp for a day or so and then doing the same for the other amp, the differences were not large.  But developed a preference for one sound over the other. This was done over a period of three to four weeks, before I came to the conclusion, that I preferred one over the other. Agree over cycling tubes, it takes time to let the parameters of the tube to come into their own. And then short time using each is very limited. When I had the Elise, I must have really liked the VT 52 and VT 96 as I bought a half dozen of each!.


----------



## myphone

CF, thank you for sharing your experience of standard Euforia and AE. Have been wondering about whether to upgrade to AE. I have been using standard Euforia since 2017, using 6080/6AS7/ 6SN7/12SN7. All my phones are high impedance (HD800, T1, Audio-Technica). Standard Euforia is still sonically competitive to my near-field desk-top setup (Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary or Audience 1+1with Schiit Aegir mono-blocks).


----------



## Henrim

Tubes arrived... but the amp is still currently being built! Probably going to be months before I recieve it. So excited!!


----------



## connieflyer

Hi Henrim, Just a word of advice, if you don't mind.  I would not stock up on tubes just yet.  Use the tubes that come with the amp for a month or two, let everything burn in, and the main thing is, get to know what it sounds like to you.  See if you can tell where it might be improved for you.  Until you know what you have you won't know it you might like it quite well.  Stock the amp sounds great. Why not give it a chance to see what you like or dislike before you start rolling tubes in.  Just my opinion.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I agree.
Above all, it is new and has a 3-year warranty.
If something happens, Feliks is accommodating in that respect.
Mine is on its way back from the repair and there is nothing to complain about.
The fault has been found and repaired.
The 3rd week has started since today and I should have it back in my hands soon.

It can look different if you equip it with the wrong tubes at the beginning.
And Feliks didn't fall on its head either, of course they want to know why there was a failure.
And they may have found ways to recognise this and thus be able to reject the warranty claim.
You should keep this in mind.

Even if it is your device, you decide on it yourself, but then you also have to put up with side blows.

As I said, there are other tubes that are very good with the 6SN7 socket and 6AS7G.
The mod originally comes from experienced tube hares who know what they are doing.
And Feliks knows about it and still doesn't recommend it regardless of whether the amplifier can take it.


----------



## Henrim

connieflyer said:


> Hi Henrim, Just a word of advice, if you don't mind.  I would not stock up on tubes just yet.  Use the tubes that come with the amp for a month or two, let everything burn in, and the main thing is, get to know what it sounds like to you.  See if you can tell where it might be improved for you.  Until you know what you have you won't know it you might like it quite well.  Stock the amp sounds great. Why not give it a chance to see what you like or dislike before you start rolling tubes in.  Just my opinion.



Thanks CF, it's a fair call, thanks for that. I am planning on buring it in with stock tubes first, especially cos it runs close to the 7A limit with the KT88s. 

And yeah knowing the stock sound. I demo'd it at home for a week a few months ago - I'm sure my understanding of it's sound will develop but so far I found the bass a bit uncontrolled, and since then I've upgraded to the Yggy GS which also has a relaxed bass, which won't help. So I'm thinking the bass will be way out of control but time will tell!

No idea if the KT88's are going to help that, but to tell you the truth I just couldn't resist!

Switching to a Chord Qutest (or something lean) might be on the cards too, but I'm loving the yggy through the 789 currently.


----------



## Henrim

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I agree.
> Above all, it is new and has a 3-year warranty.
> If something happens, Feliks is accommodating in that respect.
> ...


yeah.... I kind of regret buying them now. TBH with you I'm so new to tubes I didn't even know it was an unusual thing to do and FA didn't approve.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I agree.
> Above all, it is new and has a 3-year warranty.
> If something happens, Feliks is accommodating in that respect.
> ...



Can you share with us what the fault was? Was it the same problem I had?


----------



## mordy

Henrim said:


> yeah.... I kind of regret buying them now. TBH with you I'm so new to tubes I didn't even know it was an unusual thing to do and FA didn't approve.


Based on reading it is not unusual at all to stock up on different tubes before the amp arrives. Nothing wrong with that!


----------



## Deleeh

In principle, you are right.
But if it has to go straight into the hardcore variant and you also lack a bit of experience, it's a hard start.
Especially if it's your first tube amp and it's not exactly cheap.

Of course you can go the hardcore route with a little more caution and of course time and patience.

That reminds me, I followed your tip with the adapter and had one made.
The only thing missing are the socketsavers, which are also on their way.


----------



## Henrim

What’s the benefit of that? Looks like a very short cable extension to my untrained eye.


----------



## Arcayne

Henrim said:


> Thanks CF, it's a fair call, thanks for that. I am planning on buring it in with stock tubes first, especially cos it runs close to the 7A limit with the KT88s.
> 
> And yeah knowing the stock sound. I demo'd it at home for a week a few months ago - I'm sure my understanding of it's sound will develop but so far I found the bass a bit uncontrolled, and since then I've upgraded to the Yggy GS which also has a relaxed bass, which won't help. So I'm thinking the bass will be way out of control but time will tell!
> 
> ...


In my experience, bass performance seems to be greatly dependent on the DAC you pair with the Euforia, as well as the tubes. I've used a few AKM-based DACs with the Euforia, and I found that my Bifrost 2 showed a significant improvement in bass control over those AKM DACs. So I would expect that the Yggy would also pair nicely with the Euforia. With KT88s, what happens in the bass seems to really depend on the headphones. So I don't know how it'll work out with the Utopia, but you'll be able to evaluate that yourself. 

Either way, there is plenty of room for improvement, should you find yourself not quite satisfied with what you're getting. Just experiment with what you have available, and do share your findings here as you go!


----------



## mordy

Henrim said:


> What’s the benefit of that? Looks like a very short cable extension to my untrained eye.


The idea is to save wear and tear on the headphone jack, especially if you change headphones often, a little extender will save the headphone jack in the amp from wearing out or breaking.
The same idea with socket savers, which, as the name implies, save the sockets from wear and tear. An additional large benefit from socket savers is that they act as insulators, causing the amp to run cooler, especially with 6080/6AS7 type tubes that generate a lot of heat.


----------



## Henrim

mordy said:


> The idea is to save wear and tear on the headphone jack, especially if you change headphones often, a little extender will save the headphone jack in the amp from wearing out or breaking.
> The same idea with socket savers, which, as the name implies, save the sockets from wear and tear. An additional large benefit from socket savers is that they act as insulators, causing the amp to run cooler, especially with 6080/6AS7 type tubes that generate a lot of heat.



Ahh that makes sense. But how does socket savers cause the amp to run cooler? Does it electrically insulate something that isn't well insulated in Euforia's own sockets?


----------



## mordy

Henrim said:


> Ahh that makes sense. But how does socket savers cause the amp to run cooler? Does it electrically insulate something that isn't well insulated in Euforia's own sockets?


As far as I understand it, it has nothing to do with electrical insulation but with heat transfer. Imagine that you take off a pot of very hot water from the stove. If you touch the metal with your fingers you could burn yourself. So you put on a pair of heat resistant kitchen mittens that insulate your fingers from the heat. By having another layer between your fingers and the pot less heat reaches your fingers.
By using socket savers less heat reaches the chassis of the amp and it runs cooler.


----------



## Henrim

mordy said:


> As far as I understand it, it has nothing to do with electrical insulation but with heat transfer. Imagine that you take off a pot of very hot water from the stove. If you touch the metal with your fingers you could burn yourself. So you put on a pair of heat resistant kitchen mittens that insulate your fingers from the heat. By having another layer between your fingers and the pot less heat reaches your fingers.
> By using socket savers less heat reaches the chassis of the amp and it runs cooler.


ahhh I see, thermal insulation rather than electrical


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 18, 2021)

Well after two days about 6 hours each day, changed the VT52 out for the VT96 drivers and still the 6bl7 as powers. Will try these for a couple of days and then try both out for a couple of weeks and see if I have a preference. So far the VT 96 required just a slight increase in the volume to maintain same level. But noticed an increase of the bass with these, and an increase in sound stage.  A little wider, but about the same depth.  I am really liking these 6N7's,  I liked them on the Elise but had not tried them on the Euforia.  Same setup with equipment  and I must say these Senn 800 are singing just beautifully.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Well after two days about 6 hours each day, changed the VT52 out for the VT96 drivers and still the 6bl7 as powers. Will try these for a couple of days and then try both out for a couple of weeks and see if I have a preference. So far the VT 96 required just a slight increase in the volume to maintain same level. But noticed an increase of the bass with these, and an increase in sound stage.  A little wider, but about the same depth.  I am really liking these 7N7's,  I liked them on the Elise but had not tried them on the Euforia.  Same setup with equipment  and I must say these Senn 800 are singing just beautifully.


Ho @connieflyer, that is a gorgeous photo. I am still a bit uncertain: Do 6BL7 work natively without adapters in Euforia, in both power and driver slot. Thanks for clarifying, my friend, and enjoy.


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 18, 2021)

Good Morning Lorywiv, Yes the 6bl7's work without an adapter.  Mine are Sylvania GT. The VT 96 is Ken Rad and the specs are 6.3 Volts / If 0.8 Ampere so filament draw on the four tubes is about 4.6 amps. Am going to do a longer term check out of the VT 52, which is a type 45 special for a week or two and then go back to the VT 96 which is a 6N7 tube. Both of these tubes need adapters. Will be keeping the 6bl7gt's as powers as they are working very well with these and do NOT need adapters
​


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning Lorywiv, Yes the 6bl7's work without an adapter.  Mine are Sylvania GT. The VT 96 is Ken Rad and the specs are 6.3 Volts / If 0.8 Ampere so filament draw on the four tubes is about 4.6 amps. Am going to do a longer term check out of the VT 52, which is a type 45 special for a week or two and then go back to the VT 96 which is a 7N7 tube. Both of these tubes need adapters. Will be keeping the 6bl7gt's as powers as they are working very well with these and do NOT need adapters
> ​


Good morning CF, thank you. How would you characterize the 6BL7 as to warm or more neutral / analytic. Just out of interest, have you tried the 6BL7 as drivers?
Best,
LW


----------



## connieflyer

When I had the Elise couple years ago that's what I had used the 6 be L7 and I did use them as drivers. As I remember they were pretty decent. I have not tried them as drivers in the euphoria just as power tubes. Has power tubes I would characterize he's as towards the warm side


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Well after two days about 6 hours each day, changed the VT52 out for the VT96 drivers and still the 6bl7 as powers. Will try these for a couple of days and then try both out for a couple of weeks and see if I have a preference. So far the VT 96 required just a slight increase in the volume to maintain same level. But noticed an increase of the bass with these, and an increase in sound stage.  A little wider, but about the same depth.  I am really liking these 7N7's,  I liked them on the Elise but had not tried them on the Euforia.  Same setup with equipment  and I must say these Senn 800 are singing just beautifully.


Is the VT-96 the same as 6N7?


----------



## connieflyer

Yes the VT 96 i use are the Ken Rad and they are the metal can 6N7, March of 1944,four months before I was born! Need an  with adapter. That other post was wrong. Finger missed the 6 and hit the 7!


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Yes the VT 96 i use are the Ken Rad and they are the metal can 6N7, March of 1944,four months before I was born! Need an  with adapter. That other post was wrong. Finger missed the 6 and hit the 7!


And here I thought I was the oldest guy on the blog, but you beat me with one year!


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> And here I thought I was the oldest  most experienced guy on the blog, but you beat me with one year!


Fixed it for you.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> Fixed it for you.


No, no - I am not experienced; only started with tubes amps around 12 years ago. And I only have experience with 5 amps - nothing compared to others.


----------



## connieflyer

I started out with vacuum tubes in 1963, when in the Navy, went through electronics school, and they were still teaching vacuum tube theory as most equipment had it, then just before school finished, they taught us solid state.  Now if you will, remember, everything we learned and finally accepted was that electricity traveled along the outside of the wire. Electrons were pulled or pushed by difference of potential.  Then this guy gets up there and says, forget for a moment, what you learned about electron flow, with solid state the electrons don't move the hole does! Good thing we went to a bar after school!  Love the tubes though.


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> I started out with vacuum tubes in 1963, when in the Navy, went through electronics school, and they were still teaching vacuum tube theory as most equipment had it, then just before school finished, they taught us solid state.  Now if you will, remember, everything we learned and finally accepted was that electricity traveled along the outside of the wire. Electrons were pulled or pushed by difference of potential.  Then this guy gets up there and says, forget for a moment, what you learned about electron flow, with solid state the electrons don't move the hole does! Good thing we went to a bar after school!  Love the tubes though.


Since you know so much about it, does it make sense or could it make sense to cool the Euforia with it?
https://www.acinfinity.com/componen...s/multifan-s2-quiet-usb-cooling-blower-120mm/

I looked at the S8 but they don't supply the Eu version which is useless for me.

I had thought that you could cut out the fan in the middle of a nice plate like wood and then put the Euforia on it.
That is, not directly on top of the Euforia because of the microphonics and so on.
My thought would be that you could possibly dissipate the heat coming from the tubes better.
And maybe also get along better in the summer.
That you would reach 30 degrees with it would not be a must.
Even if the Euforia was actually built to withstand it.
It might also be easier on the electronics.
According to the description, the fan would extract the warm air and discharge it through the fan chassis to the side.

As an electrician and experienced tube enthusiast, what do you think?


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 18, 2021)

I think what you will find is that each situation is different, as far as ambient temp is concerned.  I have never cooled any of my amps.  But I am not in a hot climate.  That being said, the if you are running like 6080's or 6as7g tubes, they tend to run hot.  I use socket savers on the tube pins to chassis as this does give some heat deflection from the tube to the frame.  I also use isolation dampeners to raise up the chassis a little higher and it gets a little more air cooling that way. Just remember that if there is noise on the power line from the fan you may get that in the amp.  The transformer is also a source of heat.  If you do intend to use a fan, duct the air up through the bottom of the chassis, heat rises, and you want the heat away from the solid state components inside. Heat is the enemy of electronics, but there is substantial design to allow air to circulate inside the chassis plus the vent holes.  I no longer use the 6080 or 6as7g have not in a long time.  Some of the other tube choices put out very little heat, and I prefer the sound of the tubes I have rolled in over the years. There is nothing wrong with the stock tubes, I just prefer the sound from many others. When amps are designed they have to make choices and compromises in the design for many reasons. I have rolled very expensive tubes and now I am finding many inexpensive tubes that work just as well or better.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Since you know so much about it, does it make sense or could it make sense to cool the Euforia with it?
> https://www.acinfinity.com/componen...s/multifan-s2-quiet-usb-cooling-blower-120mm/
> 
> I looked at the S8 but they don't supply the Eu version which is useless for me.
> ...


The AC/Infinity fans are USB powered - you have to supply your own USB wall charger. Why would the 5V DC coming out of the charger be different in Europe?
The model you referenced has an air discharge on one side of the fan enclosure; otherwise the fan is the same. The last picture shows the fans I use:



The fans have rubber feet and can be put standing up or lying down. The set I have has two 120mm fans controlled by a speed controller and one common USB cable. I found that placing the fans on the shelf or chassis introduced some microphonics although the fans are very quiet.
Ended up placing large rubber bands around the frame of the fans and hung them up from my equipment shelf so that one blows on the transformer and one on the tubes on my amp that can accomodate up to four 6AS7/6080. 
As CF says, another approach would be to place the fan(s) above the amp so that the air is circulated from the bottom of the amp and pulled out through the amp.
As a rule, tube amps can withstand up to 80C safely (limited by the capacitor ratings). Using my fans on medium speed the temperature is brought down to around 40-45C on hot days.
This is what I have - found the same item on German eBay:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/363334069156?hash=item549865eba4:g:Ny4AAOSw17dgWpUL
You can use each fan individually if you want. A more powerful USB charger works better (2A).


----------



## Deleeh (Jul 20, 2021)

Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
@mordy
Originally I wanted to use this one.
https://www.acinfinity.com/componen...ponent-cooling-blower-system-rear-exhaust-17/

And this is the one I meant it only comes with the us plug.
I misspoke on the article, sorry.

@connieflyer

Strictly speaking, you're right about the transformer - I didn't take that into account.
The second thing would be possible vibrations that could possibly be transmitted to the wood, I just thought of that.
I understood the cooling concept to be that air is sucked in at the top and the exhaust air takes place at the bottom.

I ordered the socketsavers last week and they should arrive this week.
I hope it will be a little better with them.

Otherwise, the Euforia stands freely on a slate plate and is raised by 1 cm.
If I open the window to ventilate during the warm-up phase and listen for 2-3 hours, it works.
If it runs longer, I have to ventilate a little in between so that there is fresh air in the room again.
In winter, I have to be a bit careful because the room is also small.

My thought was more to be able to remove the warm air, I did not take into account that it rises upwards.
Obviously I still have two or three small mistakes in my idea.
It still helped me to rethink the whole thing.☺️
Thank you both.✌️

I use the 6080 and the 6SN7, and you are right that they do get quite warm.
The 6080s give off more heat and they heat up faster than the 6SN7s, I have noticed.

Edit:
Purely informative, the repair processing at Feliks went without major problems and reliably.
They were also relatively quick.
All in all, from the time it went on the road until it was delivered back to me, it took just under 2 1/2 weeks.
You have to add 3 days of shipping per shipment from Germany to Poland.
Absolutely justifiable for me and of course a great performance by Feliks when you have the possibility to send it from Europe.
Depending on the country, it can take a little longer, France, Italy, Spain, England.
Definitely better than going via the dealer who then sends it to the general agent and only then goes to Poland.

Even though it may sound stupid, I remember it sounding better than when I bought it.
But that could also be deceptive, as I listened to the transitional period with a Solid State and the Little Dot 1+ and my ears have become accustomed to the sound.

Great work by Feliks, all handled in a very customer friendly way.
It would be nice if other manufacturers would take a similar example.
There is no need to worry about this.
I am very satisfied and happy to have the Euforia with me again.

As a final tip when sending.
It is not absolutely necessary, but a lot also happens during shipping.
When sending to Poland, it still makes sense to send with insurance.
In case something should happen, you are covered.
In Germany, the package still goes to the recipient, who is the repairer in this case and can make an estimate and settle the damage with the shipping company, who reports it to his insurance company.
I suspect that it is similar in other countries and parts of Europe.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jul 22, 2021)

Did anyone ever try KT150 or KT170(with the adapter instead of 6080) together with 6SN7 ?

They still need less current than 6080, therefore electrically they should work as long as the Auto bias doesn't fu*# things up


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> Did anyone ever try KT150 or KT170(with the adapter instead of 6080) together with 6SN7 ?


I tried KT150 with KT77 and worked on Elise. I expect no problems should appear with 6SN7.


----------



## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> I tried KT150 with KT77 and worked on Elise. I expect no problems should appear with 6SN7.


Excellent news, May I ask how long did you run the setup?


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> Excellent news, May I ask how long did you run the setup?


Not long, kt150 were awful on Elise.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jul 22, 2021)

OctavianH said:


> Not long, kt150 were awful on Elise.


Hmm so no "stability test" available 😅

Yeah since it is not designed for KT 150 tubes, there is always a possibility that it sounds off


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> Hmm so no "stability test" available 😅


I doubt you'll have problem with those KT150 and 6SN7.


ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah since it is not designed for KT 150 tubes, there is always a possibility that it sounds off


The sound was dry and lifeless, very energetic like on steroids but somehow dull. That's all I remember, on Euforia it might sound different, I doubt that I would like it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> I doubt you'll have problem with those KT150 and 6SN7.
> 
> The sound was dry and lifeless, very energetic like on steroids but somehow dull. That's all I remember, on Euforia it might sound different, I doubt that I would like it.


Did you hear the KT150 in other amps as comparison?

They are quite dark in tone, which is a trait I personally like.  (KT120 on the other hand are rather bright)


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> Did you hear the KT150 in other amps as comparison?
> 
> They are quite dark in tone, which is a trait I personally like.  (KT120 on the other hand are rather bright)


Only in my current amplifier and the feeling I had was the same. But I have not listened a lot since it was again, an awful signature.


----------



## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> Only in my current amplifier and the feeling I had was the same. But I have not listened a lot since it was again, an awful signature.


Thx for sharing, much appreciated


----------



## OctavianH

ThanatosVI said:


> Thx for sharing, much appreciated


Please keep in mind that my opinion is very subjective, also my musical taste. A part of the sound might be related to my headphones, tuning and so on. And I listen only to rock music, this kind of dry synthetic sound might be fine with electronic music or whatever, so maybe someone will apreciate it. I prefer guitars, analogue sound and that kind of signature, I want to feel the music alive and this was in the oposite direction.


----------



## ThanatosVI

OctavianH said:


> Please keep in mind that my opinion is very subjective, also my musical taste. A part of the sound might be related to my headphones, tuning and so on. And I listen only to rock music, this kind of dry synthetic sound might be fine with electronic music or whatever, so maybe someone will apreciate it. I prefer guitars, analogue sound and that kind of signature, I want to feel the music alive and this was in the oposite direction.


The important part to me was, that it was dry and lifeless to you on Elise and you didn't Like the tubes in a different amp either.

Since I like the KT150 in my current amp, chances are I might as well in an Euforia. 

The thing that I didn't want to hear was, that you love the KT150 in your current amp but hate them in the Elise. 

All in audio is subjective


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 22, 2021)

Thought I would give you another combo to try if you have the tubes.  Having been using as of late a quad of 6bl7's, the clarity is extreme, but bass is very tight, and may seem light, but it is quite a show with the Senn 800 even.   Listening to 30 seconds to Mars Walk on Water is really a tour de force. Not bad mind you, it is all there, but the strong mid and treble make it seem so.  Those are not adapters on the power tubes, just socket savers


----------



## fr3akX

Finally received my euforia ae after 2 months waiting. 
*initial impressions*: First thing I plugged into it was hd650, and I was amazed how it sound, never heard it sound so pleasant before. Decided to listen few days only to hd650 before switching  to empyreans, but failed on that decision and plugged empys after an hour. And fuuuuuuuuu*c, this thing yet to be burned in, but it sound already heavenly, sound is so liquid, the timbre and realism of vocals and instruments, the stage width/height/depth is that Im almost ready to sell my speaker system


----------



## LoryWiv

OctavianH said:


> Not long, kt150 were awful on Elise.


I had the same experience and sold the KT150...lot's of power but little musicality. KT88 seems to be the sweet spot for me...


----------



## connieflyer

fr3kaX, good luck with the AE, I like it the best of the versions I have had.  Give it time to settle in and the tubes need it also, but it is a great amp.
On the KT tubes, I found that the KT77 was the sweet spot for me. KT66 and KT88 were a close second. I prefer the sound of the 77's for their mid range over all.  I had planned on using the KT150 at one time, really like the look of the tube, was warned off them from another forum.  Nice looking tube, powerful.


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> fr3kaX, good luck with the AE, I like it the best of the versions I have had.  Give it time to settle in and the tubes need it also, but it is a great amp.
> On the KT tubes, I found that the KT77 was the sweet spot for me. KT66 and KT88 were a close second. I prefer the sound of the 77's for their mid range over all.  I had planned on using the KT150 at one time, really like the look of the tube, was warned off them from another forum.  Nice looking tube, powerful.


If you like the mids of the KT77 you should try some EL34


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> fr3kaX, good luck with the AE, I like it the best of the versions I have had.  Give it time to settle in and the tubes need it also, but it is a great amp.
> On the KT tubes, I found that the KT77 was the sweet spot for me. KT66 and KT88 were a close second. I prefer the sound of the 77's for their mid range over all.  I had planned on using the KT150 at one time, really like the look of the tube, was warned off them from another forum.  Nice looking tube, powerful.



Hi Connie flyer, out of interest, are we talking here about the GEC KT66’s? Going into a AE.


----------



## connieflyer

KT 77 are EL34 version, that's why I like them.  The KT66 are Gold Lion, readily available, and will not turn your wallet to mush


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> KT 77 are EL34 version, that's why I like them.  The KT66 are Gold Lion, readily available, and will not turn your wallet to mush



Ah, that’s good to know. Co’s I have tried GEC KT66’s in my AE and they don’t work at all, the bass is mushy and horrible. And yet I believe they work well in the Elise, if my recollection of a conversation some years back holds true!


----------



## connieflyer

All the KT tubes that I have are the Gold LIon and all work well in the AE


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

My socketsavers arrived today.
You can argue about the look, of course, but unfortunately it's also a bit due to the Lin Lai's space.
When the Euforia was at Feliks, I think they did something instead of 3 mm where there was only space before without the socketsaver.
But I could be wrong.
The positive thing about the socketsavers is that the heat is not transferred directly to the main socket but can be dissipated through the elevation in the free air.
Makes sense in any case, I would not have thought that it makes so much difference.
Thanks for the tip.


----------



## ThanatosVI

When ordering an amp directly from Feliks,  how long is the average production time?


----------



## connieflyer

Deleeh in your last post what are you referring to, regarding Feliks changing something, and now you have less space?  The spacing has not been changed, if you are referring to the Lin Lai tubes that is normal.  I know of two others that use this tube, and the spacing is the same. Those tubes are quite a bit larger than stock tubes.  Variable  adapters to stack like you have it is the way the others have it. Feliks did not change anything, just your tubes are too wide for the amp you want to use.  I was going to buy a pair to try until I saw the dimensions, and knew they would be too close together.


----------



## Deleeh

Yes, I know what you mean.
The distance is enough, even if it is narrow.
This is the second set of Lin Lai I bought and the gap was even smaller than the first set.

I'm not sure if Feliks might have moved the base a bit, which is possible.
Or something to do with the fact that the case has been opened.
In any case, I have a little more space than with the first set and with the one that was already in there before the repair.

I didn't really want to use socketsavers because it doesn't look very nice.
It has been running like this for 3 hours and I have noticed that the temperature is slightly lower and more constant.
I haven't noticed any negative effects on the sound, and not because the socketsavers are made in China, in case anyone is wondering.
On the contrary, they are made of ceramic, decorated with gold plate and gold pins that are supposed to be made of copper.

I have seen better ones from America, but unfortunately they are not available and cost 36$ a piece, but they are also shockproof.

In general, the Lin Lai have space, even if it is tight, I measured it before buying the first set, and I did not notice any losses without socketsavers.
The Linlai's also get a little less warm than the Ps vane although 1 cm is recommended.

I can also provide you with an exact drawing if you need the exact measurement of how to determine the value after installation.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Yes, I know what you mean.
> The distance is enough, even if it is narrow.
> This is the second set of Lin Lai I bought and the gap was even smaller than the first set.
> 
> ...



With regards to the gaps, especially with taller tubes, and even more so with socket savers. The whole ensemble will have a fair amount of play and you will be able (by design or not) to alter the gaps between those Lin Lai’s.


----------



## Deleeh

JTbbb said:


> With regards to the gaps, especially with taller tubes, and even more so with socket savers. The whole ensemble will have a fair amount of play and you will be able (by design or not) to alter the gaps between those Lin Lai’s.


You can argue about that.
Maybe Feliks will surprise us with a Mk 3 version with more space or even a new design.

The game is okay, there is a bit of play but it's okay.
Especially when it stands on a desk that likes to wobble, it's better than when there's too little play and it's too stiff.


----------



## Henrim (Jul 23, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> When ordering an amp directly from Feliks,  how long is the average production time?


I just ordered mine from the Australian distributor who didn’t have any in stock. He said it’ll take 5-6 weeks for it to be made and shipped to Australia. Not sure how much of that is shipping time, probably a couple of weeks I’m guessing.

Edit: but he also passed on a message from FA that it’s the holidays in Poland so production is a bit slower than usual.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> I just ordered mine from the Australian distributor who didn’t have any in stock. He said it’ll take 5-6 weeks for it to be made and shipped to Australia. Not sure how much of that is shipping time, probably a couple of weeks I’m guessing.
> 
> Edit: but he also passed on a message from FA that it’s the holidays in Poland so production is a bit slower than usual.


Thank you


----------



## Henrim

connieflyer said:


> fr3kaX, good luck with the AE, I like it the best of the versions I have had.  Give it time to settle in and the tubes need it also, but it is a great amp.
> On the KT tubes, I found that the KT77 was the sweet spot for me. KT66 and KT88 were a close second. I prefer the sound of the 77's for their mid range over all.  I had planned on using the KT150 at one time, really like the look of the tube, was warned off them from another forum.  Nice looking tube, powerful.


Is this all as quads? Do you like the sound of mix and matching any?


----------



## connieflyer (Jul 24, 2021)

I have tried the k t 66 and k t 88 as quads but not the 77. Of those tubes I like the k t 77 as drivers and the 88 has power. My favorite of the k t combo.


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> When ordering an amp directly from Feliks,  how long is the average production time?


In the Product describtion is 3-5 Weeks.
But not sure is for Europe or all Countrys with Shippingtime.
Better you ask Feliks directly before you give the order.
And maybe then can go longer because vacancytime.


----------



## elrey

mordy said:


> The idea is to save wear and tear on the headphone jack, especially if you change headphones often, a little extender will save the headphone jack in the amp from wearing out or breaking.


I do the same with my Euforia. I asked the same guy who constructed my headphone cable to make the extender with the same type of conductor.


----------



## Henrim

What DACs have people tried with the Euforia? I'm especially interested in the Qutest, Topping D90, Chord Hugo (1 or 2), Matrix Element M, or a Denafrips Pontus, but I'd love to hear about anything else too.

Do people find the Euforia smooths over extra details from the Qutest / detailed DACs? I really like the way the Euforia widens the Utopia's sound stage, so would I still benefit from a wide sounding DAC or could it get too wide?  

For context, I'm not a very experienced listener and can't confidently say I can hear a difference in cables, hi-res or different sources, but I can hear the difference between cheap, mid-range and high end DACs.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have connected the Singxer Su 2 to the Singeer Sda 2 via I2 and am quite happy with the pairing.


----------



## elrey

Henrim said:


> What DACs have people tried with the Euforia?


I use the Schiit Bifrost


----------



## fr3akX

Henrim said:


> What DACs have people tried with the Euforia? I'm especially interested in the Qutest, Topping D90, Chord Hugo (1 or 2), Matrix Element M, or a Denafrips Pontus, but I'd love to hear about anything else too.
> 
> Do people find the Euforia smooths over extra details from the Qutest / detailed DACs? I really like the way the Euforia widens the Utopia's sound stage, so would I still benefit from a wide sounding DAC or could it get too wide?
> 
> For context, I'm not a very experienced listener and can't confidently say I can hear a difference in cables, hi-res or different sources, but I can hear the difference between cheap, mid-range and high end DACs.


Using with metrum acoustics pavane, but also have d90, but not listened yet with d90 as got the euforia ae just week ago, will report later how it sounds with d90


----------



## Quince

I liked the euforia with my Qutest, but I love it with my Marantz SA10 (a SACD player)


----------



## Deleeh

Not quite sure but a good pairing should also be the Denafrips Ares 2.
That would be next on my wish list if something came up.
At least a European dealer would be great.
But Outest and Bitfrost is what I read before and after buying the Euforia.


----------



## Henrim

Thanks everyone, cool to see a variety of price points. When I did the in-home trial I was using a Audio-GD NFB 11 and I didn't know how the signal was going from _okay_ to incredibly beautiful.



fr3akX said:


> Using with metrum acoustics pavane, but also have d90, but not listened yet with d90 as got the euforia ae just week ago, will report later how it sounds with d90


Yes please if you could report back on the d90, that'd be appreciated 



Deleeh said:


> Not quite sure but a good pairing should also be the Denafrips Ares 2.
> That would be next on my wish list if something came up.
> At least a European dealer would be great.
> But Outest and Bitfrost is what I read before and after buying the Euforia.


What do you mean about the Qutest and Bifrost? I'd be keen to try Denafrips too...


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> Thanks everyone, cool to see a variety of price points. When I did the in-home trial I was using a Audio-GD NFB 11 and I didn't know how the signal was going from _okay_ to incredibly beautiful.
> 
> 
> Yes please if you could report back on the d90, that'd be appreciated
> ...


Of course, I meant that most people have the Euforia coupled with the Outest or Bitfrost Dac.
Whether they use that as a reference is up to them.
It is certainly not reprehensible if the results are good.
However, in the end it is rather subjective.
You may like it or not.

Spontaneously, you buy where you think the Dac can be good or corresponds to your musical ideas.
There are also Dacs that just don't get you excited.
My Matrix Audio Ipro Mini 2s for example is not really good to listen to on headphones, but on the stereo it is a dream.

That's why they tend to buy what gives them the wow feeling from a personal point of view.
Even if the contenders are good like Outest,Bitfrost,Ares2 maybe even the Sokris.
Of course, you can also achieve something with the tube rolling should not be forgotten.


----------



## myphone (Jul 26, 2021)

Have mod bugs recently. Replaced the 0.33 uF Mundorf Mcap with Vcap TFTF Teflon capacitor (the older and cheaper Tin version) today.

The improvement is so dramatic, even without any capacitor burn-in, that it is not funny.

Everything opens up significantly, sound stage, resolution, airiness etc, more noticeable than that all the tube rolling I have done 6SN7/6AS7 family).

Wonder how much better the amp will sound  if the output coupling capacitors (470uF) are replaced with better film capacitors.


----------



## Deleeh

myphone said:


> Have mod bugs recently. Replaced the 0.33 uF Mundorf Mcap with Vcap TFTF Teflon capacitor (the older and cheaper Tin version) today.
> 
> The improvement is so dramatic, even without any capacitor burn-in, that it is not funny.
> 
> ...


Do you have same picture from the Work?


----------



## myphone

Deleeh said:


> Do you have same picture from the Work?


Vcap is much larger than the original Mcap.


----------



## Deleeh

myphone said:


> Vcap is much larger than the original Mcap.


Where did you buy the caps, if you don't mind me asking?
And which ones did you install?
It was also an idea and I looked somewhere and there is an English site that has pretty much everything except the caps, there it was rather difficult to find ones that fit, but if it did it was quite expensive the pair.

And I wondered how big the added value could be.
I think something like that can be a step backwards, just like the tubes.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the subject so from what I've seen there are foils, oil, paper in oil capacitors and so much more.
I found the Audionote not bad but they say they need a minimum of 600 hours to work at all.
They also had the Mundorf and yes, you can also make a lot of mistakes with the choice of capacitors, but it is certainly also a great opportunity to take another step forward.


----------



## myphone

http://www.v-cap.com/ Wisconsin, USA

0.33uF TFTF.


----------



## Deleeh

myphone said:


> http://www.v-cap.com/ Wisconsin, USA
> 
> 0.33uF TFTF.





myphone said:


> http://www.v-cap.com/ Wisconsin, USA
> 
> 0.33uF TFTF.


What are your impressions of this mod?
Can you already say something or does it still need time?
I looked at 114€ for the pair, which is still possible.
Did it matter in which direction they were installed or did it have a plus and minus pole?


----------



## myphone

Deleeh said:


> What are your impressions of this mod?
> Can you already say something or does it still need time?
> I looked at 114€ for the pair, which is still possible.
> Did it matter in which direction they were installed or did it have a plus and minus pole?


"What are your impressions of this mod?" openness: sound stage is much larger, deeper, and clearer. Instruments (Classical music) are larger and have more air. 

'Can you already say something or does it still need time?' Yes, The improvement is very dramatic right after cap replacement. Teflon capacitors take long time to reach final state. I had the same TFTF capacitor (0.1uF) installed in OTL amplifier (Atma-Sphere) in 2005. It took about several months (playing couple of hour a day) to reach the state change was not noticeable anymore.

"Did it matter in which direction they were installed or did it have a plus and minus pole?" The V-cap has color ends - red in (inner foil) and green out (outer foil). I followed the installation instruction, did not try the other way.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Arcayne said:


> Totally understand that haha, and I agree that that's probably my favorite thing about them. My preferences normally lean a bit more towards the warmth/wetness/richness/smoothness side of things, but the KT88's have enough going for them to keep me interested.
> 
> If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the KT88's with Empyreans?


Hi I have an Euforia amp  with the the Empyrean and it has problems with the 7236 tube: it is running out of stock just like the 5998. The Euforia is tuned for easy to drive planars like the Empyrean, HE 1000 SE and also the Utopia it is a match, like the Woo WA2 is tunes for Beyer and Sennheiser. Feliks Audio will build an other amp one of these years because of the tube shortage. Or a tube maker will make its own 5998. I talked to Woo, please use your connections to let someone make this tube or a lot of amps will become worthless. But they replied, buy our 7236/ 5998 tube we have plenty. They are very costly at Woo 7236 are now 240 dollar the pair and the matched pair 5998 at 900 euro is sold out. So now everyone will buy the matched pair 7236 at 240 dollar till they are sold out too. And then with no 7236 tubes left, Lukasz said, Feliks audio will build a KT88 tube amp to replace the Eurforia, and Elise. A PSVANE or LINLAI Elite 5998 would be the solution to our needs. I know a lot of you have KT88 mixes of tubes on the Euforia, outside warranty  but Feliks will build an amp that suits the KT88 perfectly, when no tube builder will produce its own new 5998 tube one of these days. The WA22 is also a 7236 amp. I like the Empyrean with the Euforia, and they say nothing is perfect, but it is good. If I get a well paying job, I'd buy the Utopia too for the detail orgy whereas I doubt to buy the HE1000 SE as it is built poorly like all Hifiman stuff. Kind regards Yoram


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I have an Euforia amp  with the the Empyrean and it has problems with the 7236 tube: it is running out of stock just like the 5998. The Euforia is tuned for easy to drive planars like the Empyrean, HE 1000 SE and also the Utopia it is a match, like the Woo WA2 is tunes for Beyer and Sennheiser. Feliks Audio will build an other amp one of these years because of the tube shortage. Or a tube maker will make its own 5998. I talked to Woo, please use your connections to let someone make this tube or a lot of amps will become worthless. But they replied, buy our 7236/ 5998 tube we have plenty. They are very costly at Woo 7236 are now 240 dollar the pair and the matched pair 5998 at 900 euro is sold out. So now everyone will buy the matched pair 7236 at 240 dollar till they are sold out too. And then with no 7236 tubes left, Lukasz said, Feliks audio will build a KT88 tube amp to replace the Eurforia, and Elise. A PSVANE or LINLAI Elite 5998 would be the solution to our needs. I know a lot of you have KT88 mixes of tubes on the Euforia, outside warranty  but Feliks will build an amp that suits the KT88 perfectly, when no tube builder will produce its own new 5998 tube one of these days. The WA22 is also a 7236 amp. I like the Empyrean with the Euforia, and they say nothing is perfect, but it is good. If I get a well paying job, I'd buy the Utopia too for the detail orgy whereas I doubt to buy the HE1000 SE as it is built poorly like all Hifiman stuff. Kind regards Yoram


How good are the Centerion 7236 that Woo AUdio offers compared to the 6080 Mullards?
Is there still a push upwards or rather similar ?

How happy are you with your Linlai's have they certainly burnt in by now?


----------



## myphone

I have used both 7236 and Mullard 6080 in Euforia. They are at oppose ends of sound signature: 7236 is fast and clear, Mullard 6080 is rich and warm.


----------



## Deleeh

myphone said:


> I have used both 7236 and Mullard 6080 in Euforia. They are at oppose ends of sound signature: 7236 is fast and clear, Mullard 6080 is rich and warm.


YES, then the topic with the 7236 is over for me, .
They would not be my style.
One more reason to go for caps, presumably if you want to take another step forward, I suppose?


----------



## Malevolent

I had a somewhat lengthy audition with the Euforia today. Long story, short - it's a fantastic amplifier. It exhibited marvelous control throughout the sonic range; at the same time, it imparted a robust and prominent stamp of authority on the music. This has definitely shot to the very top of my _to-buy_ list.

Before I make the jump, has anyone heard of a possible "Mk 2" variant of the Euforia? I note that the Elise and the Echo have recently been updated; is there something in the works for the Euforia, too? Thanks in advance!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Malevolent said:


> I had a somewhat lengthy audition with the Euforia today. Long story, short - it's a fantastic amplifier. It exhibited marvelous control throughout the sonic range; at the same time, it imparted a robust and prominent stamp of authority on the music. This has definitely shot to the very top of my _to-buy_ list.
> 
> Before I make the jump, has anyone heard of a possible "Mk 2" variant of the Euforia? I note that the Elise and the Echo have recently been updated; is there something in the works for the Euforia, too? Thanks in advance!


There is the Euforia Anniversary Edition on top of the regular Euforia. 
So unlike other Mk2 it doesn't replace the existing one but it's another amp in the lineup.

So far I didn't hear of any planned "upgrades"


----------



## Arcayne

Malevolent said:


> Before I make the jump, has anyone heard of a possible "Mk 2" variant of the Euforia? I note that the Elise and the Echo have recently been updated; is there something in the works for the Euforia, too? Thanks in advance!


What we know is that a new flagship headphone tube amp is in the works, but we can safely assume that it will come at a higher price than the Euforia AE. Earlier @Yoram Diamand mentioned that they might release a variation of the Euforia to support more readily available tube families as the tube market continues to shift. 

You could email Feliks Audio to ask for their advice, but overall I don't think you'd regret it if you were to purchase a 2019 Euforia in the near future. 

Either way, nice to hear of your positive experience auditioning the Euforia. My experience has been similar, I was hooked since my first audition as well, and have been very satisfied owning one for a year by now.


----------



## Magol79

Malevolent said:


> I had a somewhat lengthy audition with the Euforia today. Long story, short - it's a fantastic amplifier. It exhibited marvelous control throughout the sonic range; at the same time, it imparted a robust and prominent stamp of authority on the music. This has definitely shot to the very top of my _to-buy_ list.


I just got my Euforia a few days ago and this has been my impression as well, control and authority like I have not heard before. 

Also, interestingly, with my VC I suddenly got some of the ethereal quality to the sound that I have only ever heard on the Stax gear I used to own. Ethereal, but with body and the physical sensation of the dynamic driver intact. 

Going from the Echo mkI and Espressivo mkII, the VC scaled like mad on the Euforia. It was like levelling up the headphones.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> How good are the Centerion 7236 that Woo AUdio offers compared to the 6080 Mullards?
> Is there still a push upwards or rather similar ?
> 
> How happy are you with your Linlai's have they certainly burnt in by now?


I guess the LINLAI are super nice, I do enjoy the music. Now I understand the 6080 Mullards are a good idea to try. If I can find some. My next hifi plan was the SOtM sMS-200 Neo Special edition, since my computer is unable to play 192 Hz music well. A dedicated streaming transport i did not have yet.


----------



## Malevolent

ThanatosVI said:


> There is the Euforia Anniversary Edition on top of the regular Euforia.
> So unlike other Mk2 it doesn't replace the existing one but it's another amp in the lineup.
> 
> So far I didn't hear of any planned "upgrades"


Thanks, mate. Sadly, I wasn't able to try the Anniversary Edition (AE) at my local store; they only had the regular variant available for auditioning. However, I'm already suitably impressed with the stock model; I wonder just how much better the AE could get.


----------



## Malevolent

Arcayne said:


> What we know is that a new flagship headphone tube amp is in the works, but we can safely assume that it will come at a higher price than the Euforia AE. Earlier @Yoram Diamand mentioned that they might release a variation of the Euforia to support more readily available tube families as the tube market continues to shift.
> 
> You could email Feliks Audio to ask for their advice, but overall I don't think you'd regret it if you were to purchase a 2019 Euforia in the near future.
> 
> Either way, nice to hear of your positive experience auditioning the Euforia. My experience has been similar, I was hooked since my first audition as well, and have been very satisfied owning one for a year by now.


Thanks.

Well, since my revelation yesterday, I've been reading up (a lot) on the brand, and its stable of amplifiers. You're right, it appears that a new flagship might be introduced this year. I'm in no rush to purchase an amplifier, so I think I'd be willing to wait to see how things transpire. One thing's for sure, though - I am (hugely) impressed with the Euforia, and I believe that Feliks Audio has the expertise and the passion to craft an even better product.

Sign me up as a new fan of the brand! 



Magol79 said:


> I just got my Euforia a few days ago and this has been my impression as well, control and authority like I have not heard before.
> 
> Also, interestingly, with my VC I suddenly got some of the ethereal quality to the sound that I have only ever heard on the Stax gear I used to own. Ethereal, but with body and the physical sensation of the dynamic driver intact.
> 
> Going from the Echo mkI and Espressivo mkII, the VC scaled like mad on the Euforia. It was like levelling up the headphones.


Yes, I specifically tested the Euforia with the Vérité Closed, as this is one of my primary headphones. I'm currently driving the ZMF from a Schiit Ragnarok.

The Ragnarok has ample power on tap; alas, it doesn't come close to the Euforia in sheer control. Plus, the Euforia imparts a better sense of euphony throughout. The Feliks amplifier adds a touch of tubey goodness, without inundating you with too much of the good stuff. Very well-balanced, indeed!


----------



## Deleeh

Malevolent said:


> Thanks, mate. Sadly, I wasn't able to try the Anniversary Edition (AE) at my local store; they only had the regular variant available for auditioning. However, I'm already suitably impressed with the stock model; I wonder just how much better the AE could get.


Don't get too crazy.
I haven't heard the Ae myself, but I think the differences are relatively marginal.
Someone once had both and ended up selling the normal Euforia because he unconsciously preferred the Ae.
But that's also a matter of taste for each individual.
Of course, the Ae is also good, but it's up to each individual to decide whether it justifies the extra price.
With the normal Euforia version you already have something reasonable.
Sometimes you shouldn't go chasing ghosts.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Malevolent said:


> Thanks, mate. Sadly, I wasn't able to try the Anniversary Edition (AE) at my local store; they only had the regular variant available for auditioning. However, I'm already suitably impressed with the stock model; I wonder just how much better the AE could get.



Regular Euforia is the most analytical in the lineup, while the Anniversary Edition is a bit more neutral but more dynamic than the regular Euforia. There is distinct difference in sound among them.

This is what Feliks Audio has to say themselfes about the difference. 

So it's not a Mk2 that is "better" than the Euforia but an additional amp with its own signature


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 3, 2021)

I was the one with the two amplifiers. The reason I upgraded to the AE from the Euphoria was that I had the first model on the Euphoria serial number 0 0 0 5 and new from the past experience with the Elise that the Felix amplifiers hold their value very wel,l so I was not going to lose money selling the standard euphoria. Switching back and forth between that and the AE model I did prefer the AE model it was a little more open and the clarity was a little bit better as well. I was going to wait for the new amplifier that they were working on but the one that I wanted that they were working with was cancelled and they're going for the 300b tube instead. I've also heard that they may be adapting their amplifiers to use the kt88 as a stock tube and that would be a good move as well. But I've already moved past the kt66 and kt77 as well as the kt88. So that will not affect me one way or the other. If I was in the market for euphoria or a e model I would go for the a e any day of the week. If you're looking for the best signal that you can get in a manufacturer's amp I figured I'm already spending X number of dollars on the standard model spend a little bit more and get their Top Line and decide later on if I want to go to a new amplifier. I will not be upgrading to the 300 b


----------



## Malevolent

Deleeh said:


> Don't get too crazy.
> I haven't heard the Ae myself, but I think the differences are relatively marginal.
> Someone once had both and ended up selling the normal Euforia because he unconsciously preferred the Ae.
> But that's also a matter of taste for each individual.
> ...


Thanks, but you don't have to worry. I'm not someone that's typically ready to drop a bunch of zeroes on gear that I haven't auditioned.

I've been in the hobby long enough to understand the concept of diminishing returns. Nevertheless, I'm still interested to try the Anniversary Edition; I'm not expecting a night-and-day different, but any improvements will go a long way to justify the price delta between the 2 editions.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice.


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 3, 2021)

In the end, it is all relative.  I don't replace a piece of equipment, because there is a new piece that is better.  I look for the best value, in the long term. I could hear a better sound with the AE, and since the Eurforia retained it's price point, I sold it.  I plan on keeping this long term, so the difference in price is a  little more to begin, over the course of several years, the difference in resale value makes up for it.  Plus, it is the latest, at this time, for this amp. Doubt from here there will be any upgrades to this plan form.  I think they have taken this design about as far as it will go.  I have many tubes that I roll in to change the sound a bit, and enjoy this, and with so many tubes I am set for life as far as this amp is concerned, so when I get a little more into the use of this, I will  purchase the McIntosh MHA 150, for solid state listening. I have auditioned this several times, and I will be adding this and keeping the AE as well.


----------



## mordy

Here is a review of the new Feliks flagship amp but it is a 300B amp. The price of $6500 is much higher than the Euforia amps which pushes it outside of my interests.
https://www.stereophile.com/content...o-arioso-amplifier-western-electric-300b-tube


----------



## connieflyer (Aug 3, 2021)

Feliks webpage still shows Ariso with Tubes set: 2x2A3, 2x6N8S, 1x5C3S tube compliment.  As a 2A3 triode amp.  Perhaps they have not upgraded. The one in the article is an integrated amp, not a headphone amp.  Makes it a lot more expensive also.  I emailed Lukasz for clarity.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mordy said:


> Here is a review of the new Feliks flagship amp but it is a 300B amp. The price of $6500 is much higher than the Euforia amps which pushes it outside of my interests.
> https://www.stereophile.com/content...o-arioso-amplifier-western-electric-300b-tube





connieflyer said:


> Feliks webpage still shows Ariso with Tubes set: 2x2A3, 2x6N8S, 1x5C3S tube compliment.  As a 2A3 triode amp.  Perhaps they have not upgraded. The one in the article is an integrated amp, not a headphone amp.  Makes it a lot more expensive also.  I emailed Lukasz for clarity.


This is the Feliks Arioso.
Their speakeramp which started out as 2A3 about 2? Years ago. 

This is NOT the new 300B headphone amp which will be released later this year

It looks amazing imo, hope the headphone amp will be similar.


----------



## Henrim

Does anyone have the pin out mapping for the Euforia tubes to the KT family? I want to double check my adapters are wired up correctly. 

Also, does anyone know who figured out the KT family would work? I’d love a link to the original posts if anyone knows where they are.


----------



## LoryWiv

Henrim said:


> Does anyone have the pin out mapping for the Euforia tubes to the KT family? I want to double check my adapters are wired up correctly.
> 
> Also, does anyone know who figured out the KT family would work? I’d love a link to the original posts if anyone knows where they are.


If I recall correctly the original pioneers were @hypnos1, @connieflyer, @mordy and perhaps others. I learned quite a lot from each pof them!


----------



## connieflyer

I have tried the KT88 as quads and the KT66 as quads, the KT77 I liked as a driver for either the KT 66 or 88. The last month I have been using vintage RCA 6N7GT's as drivers and Sylvania 6BL7's and like these very much, with the Senn 800 and the Oppo PM1


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 6, 2021)

Henrim said:


> Does anyone have the pin out mapping for the Euforia tubes to the KT family? I want to double check my adapters are wired up correctly.
> 
> Also, does anyone know who figured out the KT family would work? I’d love a link to the original posts if anyone knows where they are.


Hi Henrim...and congrats on being another venturesome soul interested in one of the non-configured-for tubes I took a (successful, thank goodness! ) gamble on converting.

I attach a photo of the top and bottom pins, numbered for confirmation purposes (tube locating lug pointing downwards of course).



And the connections should be as below :

KT88 .............................. 6AS7G/6SN7
#1...N/C
#2 (H)............................. #7 or #8 (H)
#3 AND #4 (a/g2)...... #2 or #5 (a)
#5 (g1)........................... #1 or #4 (g1)
#6...N/C
#7 (H).............................#7 or #8 (H), depending on the other used of course(!)
#8 (K/g3)...................... #3 or #6 (K).

The EL34 would need its pin #1 (g3) linked to #8 (K), which the KT88 has already internally...as with all the other KTs and 6L6 family.

Hope this helps you H.

As for its genesis, after another member suggesting I might like to try converting the 5881 member of the 6L6 family and it actually working(!), I took the plunge to see how the KT family (66/77/88) would perform. And the rest is history lol ....CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## hypnos1

myphone said:


> Have mod bugs recently. Replaced the 0.33 uF Mundorf Mcap with Vcap TFTF Teflon capacitor (the older and cheaper Tin version) today.
> 
> The improvement is so dramatic, even without any capacitor burn-in, that it is not funny.
> 
> ...



Congrats on risking your mod, myphone...not for everyone methinks lol!  . But this must give some idea of the results from FA's upgrades in the AE version - with well regarded Clarity caps, along with mono crystal OCC wire; upgraded trafo etc. ....WELL DONE!...CHEERS...CJ


----------



## Henrim

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Henrim...and congrats on being another venturesome soul interested in one of the non-configured-for tubes I took a (successful, thank goodness! ) gamble on converting.
> 
> I attach a photo of the top and bottom pins, numbered for confirmation purposes (tube locating lug pointing downwards of course).
> 
> ...


Wow thanks so much, that’s exactly what I’m after! and cheers for including the roles of the pins, this will give me chance to ponder how it works and check my adapters. Very brave of you to go all in!

So I gather the kt family are tried and tested for many many hours? It’s not going to do any damage to my amp right? Just wondering what FA are worried about.


----------



## Galapac

Henrim said:


> So I gather the kt family are tried and tested for many many hours? It’s not going to do any damage to my amp right? Just wondering what FA are worried about.



I am interested in this as well as a new owner of the FA Euforia.
To use the KT88 as a quad do I just need an adapter like this: Adapter, and some KT88 tubes to roll in?

I would not want to shorten the life span of this amp by overdoing it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Wow thanks so much, that’s exactly what I’m after! and cheers for including the roles of the pins, this will give me chance to ponder how it works and check my adapters. Very brave of you to go all in!
> 
> So I gather the kt family are tried and tested for many many hours? It’s not going to do any damage to my amp right? Just wondering what FA are worried about.


It shouldn't do any damage.
They didn't test it themselves and don't give warranty for it.

You only have to pay attention to not draw more than 6.5A in total.
Even with 4x KT88 you do not exceed that,  but 2x KT88 + 2x 6080 would be too much.
Or 4x KT150 would also be too much.

I actually inquired a quote for an custom Elise or Euforia that comes with KT88 Support instead of the 6N13S. Wonder how much that would cost.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 7, 2021)

Henrim said:


> Wow thanks so much, that’s exactly what I’m after! and cheers for including the roles of the pins, this will give me chance to ponder how it works and check my adapters. Very brave of you to go all in!
> 
> So I gather the kt family are tried and tested for many many hours? It’s not going to do any damage to my amp right? Just wondering what FA are worried about.



Hi H.

Yes...I and a good few others have used the KT etc family quite extensively (in both Euforia and Elise), with no sign of ill effects to the amp. On the contrary, with the amps thereby also running much cooler than with stock configuration, I personally feel that can only benefit the longevity of these amps lol .

And FA, as with all amp makers, are obliged to warrant only the tubes originally configured for. It just turns out that by some minor miracle, their circuits have proved able to (safely, as we have discovered) accommodate many other tubes also (with adapters)...viz the C3g; FDD 20 (with external heater supply); ECC31/6N7; NR73; EL3N; EL11/12/32/38/39 and lastly the GU50 (again with external heater supply)....amazing!!

As mentioned by @ThanatosVI , always check that the total tube heater draw doesn't exceed 6.5A by very much, with such figures as :

6N13S/6AS7G.....2.5A
KT66.......................1.25A
KT77.......................1.4A
KT88.......................1.6A
6SN7......................0.6A

HAPPY LISTENING!



Galapac said:


> I am interested in this as well as a new owner of the FA Euforia.
> To use the KT88 as a quad do I just need an adapter like this: Adapter, and some KT88 tubes to roll in?
> 
> I would not want to shorten the life span of this amp by overdoing it.


Hi G.

Yes indeed...either those adapters from xulingmrs, or those from member Deyan, in Bulgaria. The latter are more expensive, black and use wire instead of PCBs.  On the whole, folks have been happy with either. Don't know how shipping times differ however...especially to the USA. And a good few folks have used 4x KTs (and more, with external heater supply!) with no untoward effects.

Good hunting and happy listening to you also....CJ


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 6, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> It shouldn't do any damage.
> They didn't test it themselves and don't give warranty for it.
> 
> You only have to pay attention to not draw more than 6.5A in total.
> ...



Hi T. I suspect one would have to wait for the possible proposed new amp based on the KT88 as powers, as mentioned recently....CJ


----------



## Deleeh

Does this actually fit into the Euforia?
There is very little to read about it.
These instead of 6SN7 
https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/sophia-electric™-premium-6sl7-gta-equivalent-tubes


----------



## ThanatosVI

hypnos1 said:


> Hi T. I suspect one would have to wait for the possible proposed new amp based on the KT88 as powers, as mentioned recently....CJ


There is no amp in development that runs KT88 natively.

What I inquired Was a modified Elise/Euforia that can do such a thing. (Right from the manufacturer with warranty)
It would take 3 months from point of order. 
I'm currently still waiting on the quote for pricing


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> There is no amp in development that runs KT88 natively.
> 
> What I inquired Was a modified Elise/Euforia that can do such a thing. (Right from the manufacturer with warranty)
> It would take 3 months from point of order.
> I'm currently still waiting on the quote for pricing


Oh, if I had known that, I would have had it done.
Mine only came back from the repair.
Then maybe at the next one.
An adapted Euforia with KT tubes and warranty sounds good.
It would be cool if you could also have it converted for an extra charge.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Oh, if I had known that, I would have had it done.
> Mine only came back from the repair.
> Then maybe at the next one.
> An adapted Euforia with KT tubes and warranty sounds good.
> It would be cool if you could also have it converted for an extra charge.


Well I encourage you to ask them via email.


----------



## LoryWiv

ThanatosVI said:


> There is no amp in development that runs KT88 natively.
> 
> What I inquired Was a modified Elise/Euforia that can do such a thing. (Right from the manufacturer with warranty)
> It would take 3 months from point of order.
> I'm currently still waiting on the quote for pricing


Please let us know what you learn!!!


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 7, 2021)

hypnos1 said:


> Hi H.
> 
> Yes...I and a good few others have used the KT etc family quite extensively (in both Euforia and Elise), with no sign of ill effects to the amp. On the contrary, with the amps thereby also running much cooler than with stock configuration, I personally feel that can only benefit the longevity of these amps lol .
> 
> ...


As always @hypnos1 has provided awesome and helpful guidance. I would also add the the Feliks amps' autobias feature contributes to their wider compatibility with other tube types still sounding terrific and performing well. Of interest, I am currently running GEC 6V6 as powers and Sylvania VT-107A as drivers, total current draw is very light at 1.8. Adapters by @Deyan, same ones that are used for KT series. Net effect is amp is running cool and sounding wonderful!


----------



## Aquileolus

Hi Folks, really new to the tube world, I'm sure this has been asked for a ton of times, but can anyone please give me some suggestion between Euforia and Elise? Currently Euforia is $650 more than the Elise MK2, is Euforia is an straight upgrade from Elise? And on what circumstance I should choose Elise over Euforia?
I mainly use Hifiman Arya and ZMF Verite Closed, and mainly listen to female vocal / pops, I prefer euphonic relaxing sound, so I choose Feliks over ZMF pendant, but between Euforia and Elise I'm a little struggling because I heard that Euforia is brighter than Elise but also a big step up from Elise, so if budget allowed, which one I should go with?
Thanks guys in advance, any suggestion will be helpfule


----------



## hypnos1

Deleeh said:


> Does this actually fit into the Euforia?
> There is very little to read about it.
> These instead of 6SN7
> https://sophiaelectric.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/sophia-electric™-premium-6sl7-gta-equivalent-tubes



Hi D. I tried a 6SL7 once...and whipped it out straight away lol! Bad distortion in my case anyway...


----------



## Magol79

Aquileolus said:


> Hi Folks, really new to the tube world, I'm sure this has been asked for a ton of times, but can anyone please give me some suggestion between Euforia and Elise? Currently Euforia is $650 more than the Elise MK2, is Euforia is an straight upgrade from Elise? And on what circumstance I should choose Elise over Euforia?
> I mainly use Hifiman Arya and ZMF Verite Closed, and mainly listen to female vocal / pops, I prefer euphonic relaxing sound, so I choose Feliks over ZMF pendant, but between Euforia and Elise I'm a little struggling because I heard that Euforia is brighter than Elise but also a big step up from Elise, so if budget allowed, which one I should go with?
> Thanks guys in advance, any suggestion will be helpfule


I was in the same situation as you just recently. I also have the VC. I was running it on a Feliks Espressivo mkII, but wanted to upgrade. I had sort of decided to go with the Elise (since it is supposed to have good synergy with my Auteur). But when Feliks upped the price on the latest release of the Elise, I went with a lightly used Euforia instead. 

The VC totally jumped up a level on the Euforia, it really is a great pairing imo. Power, control, details suddenly improved substantially.


----------



## hypnos1

ThanatosVI said:


> *There is no amp in development that runs KT88 natively.*
> 
> What I inquired Was a modified Elise/Euforia that can do such a thing. (Right from the manufacturer with warranty)
> It would take 3 months from point of order.
> I'm currently still waiting on the quote for pricing



Oh, that's a shame T. Had thought it might possibly be a follow-on model to the Euforia (AE) and next in line to a presumably much more expensive 300b(?) based amp....

But for me personally, a custom-made Euforia using the KT88 would need to be _not_ too much more expensive...Given this tube already works flawlessly in Euforia as is, and its normal use is to provide much more power in speaker amps, I wonder just how different its sonic performance would be in this amp. Pushed harder it would certainly be handy to have more power though.... And, of course, different tubes will only go so far in the same circuit... major performance increases come from component upgrades/circuit design, as shown for example by @myphone 's results just from better capacitors (not to mention the AE version). So perhaps a caps upgrade along with the tube conversion lol? 

Whatever, your findings should be very interesting...if you do go ahead with this project...GOOD LUCK!


----------



## Deleeh

@hypnos1
Oh okay that doesn't sound good.
Let's not do that then, thanks for the info.

@Aquileolus 
I've read that the Elise plays a little warmer than the Euforia and that the power is a little less with the Elise than with the Euforia.
If you have two good headphones, the Euforia would be better.
But in any case, test your Hifiman extensively on the Euforia.
Because the Euforia has its limits there too.
It only supports planar headphones to a limited extent.
With the Lcd 2c, I initially struggled with the bass, which was simply too little.
But by changing the tubes I got it under control (Linlais 6SN7 +6080 Mullard or Sylvania).
After that, there was more punch in the bass range and the mids and trebles increased a bit and it became more musical than with the Ps Vane tubes.
That is the small disadvantage of both amplifiers, they are both designed more for dynamic headphones.
The Dan Clark Aeon, for example, is useless with the Euforia.
It plays quietly quite well but as soon as you turn it up it's over.
Therefore, my tip is to test your Hifiman long enough.

I am personally of the opinion that the Ps Vane tubes are too neutral and linear for planar headphones.
Since planar headphones generally have a better resolution, this is my theory.
So it's up to you whether you buy the house tubes when you buy Elise/Euforia.
I advise against it and recommend spending the money on the Linlai tubes directly, even if they cost a little more.
The 6080 Mullards are a little harder to find but the Sylvania are sufficient and cheaper.
The difference is that the Mullards play a little smoother and deeper than the Sylvania.
But the difference is more noticeable when listening closely.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 7, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> As always @hypnos1 has provided awesome and helpful guidance. I would also add the the Feliks amps' autobias feature contributes to their wider compatibility with other tube types still sounding terrific and performing well. Of interest, I am currently running GEC 6V6 as powers and Sylvania VT-107A as drivers, total current draw is very light at 1.8. Adapters by @Deyan, same ones that are used for KT series. net effect is amp is running cool and sounding wonderful!


Thanks for your kind words LW...us 'old timers' have tried to pass on as much assistance as possible these past years, and glad so many have appreciated the time and effort (not to mention _money!_) that's gone into it lol 

And wowee LW, looks like you yourself certainly caught the experimentitis bug...sounds like yet another great 'unconventional' combo that these amps can accommodate...WELL DONE!  Anything else you've got your eye on? But please do be careful mon ami!!...CHEERS...CJ

ps. While on this (controversial) subject of non configured-for tubes, and for recent newcomers interested, may I repeat a few words of caution when taking the plunge : viz

1. Before switch on, *ALWAYS* have the volume at 0 and headphones unplugged when first inserting the tube(s). This actually goes for ALL tubes, although I myself risked keeping the cans plugged in with tubes that prove OK (to save the hp socket, rather than introducing yet another extending connection in the signal line - I _hate_ connectors and dispense with them wherever/whenever I can!).

2. Look very closely at the tube(s) after switch on for any sign whatsoever of flashing/arcing, reddening of the anode plate. If present, remove the tube IMMEDIATELY (protecting your hand!) and either consign to the bin or return for refund as faulty if recently purchased.

3. After plugging in the cans, turn up the volume very slowly...assuming there's already no hint of distortion of any kind. Sometimes a slight hum might be heard -especially with new tubes, but should gradually disappear after a while. If it continues, it's probaly either faulty (if known to be OK normally) or might indicate a poor wire connection inside its pin. Again, if recently purchased, return for refund or if confident/able, try to resolder the pins to possibly eliminate this cause. Other distortion noise might also be caused by this fault...

Obviously, these are all things to keep an eye/ear on for ever more lol!  Not to mention a base becoming loose...and if so, glue it straight away with superglue. My preference is Gorilla glue (gel, or a 2 part epoxy, if the gap is large). Then...HAPPY and SAFE listening!

pps. A #4 must surely be to always keep those tube pins as spotless/corrosion-free as possible. If the coating is thick, it may need something like the edge of a sharp knife to scrape down. But I myself always finished off with fine emery paper, for a nice smooth finish...makes for easier insertion in the socket and better metal-to-metal contact.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, I asked Lukasz if he would consider to refurbish the original Euforia into a KT88 Euforia, when 5998 / 7236 have run out, but he was not keen on the idea. Saying it would be not cost effective or something alike.


----------



## UntilThen

It's not a simple process of changing an OTL amp like Euforia to use KT88. It's practically a redesign of the amp schematics. You don't see KT88 being design for an OTL amp. It's always as a transformer coupled amp.

When I had Euforia, I had already brooch the idea with Lukasz, to run with EL3N, EL11 and EL12 spez then but the response was similar to what you get.


----------



## connieflyer

Yoram, Lukasz and a few members had considered in the past sending in their units to be altered or upgraded, but the cost and time spent, was not worth the result.  That was to be a possible upgrade years ago for Elise, when the Euforia came out.  To send in your unit and have it upgraded to better status.  But the transformer could not be upgraded so it made no sense.  That and the expense incurred for shipping both ways and still not having the results of a new amp.  There are a few KT88 amps out there, but personally, after much use of the KT family, I don't think it is a path worth following. Was not planning on upgrading to the AE model, but waiting for the McIntosh to be ready was an uncertainty.  Very glad I did buy the AE amp.  It is superior to the previous Feliks amps and am very satisfied with it. I compare it to buying a new car. The new one cost a lot more, and they both get you from here to there, but it is how you get there and the satisfaction of the ride. Not to mention, all things wear out. I was waiting for their new 2A3 amp, fantastic looking amp, totally new everywhere, but they opted to change to a 300B amp.  Willing to see this and give it a listen when it comes out. If a substantial upgrade, it will join my AE,


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> Yoram, Lukasz and a few members had considered in the past sending in their units to be altered or upgraded, but the cost and time spent, was not worth the result.  That was to be a possible upgrade years ago for Elise, when the Euforia came out.  To send in your unit and have it upgraded to better status.  But the transformer could not be upgraded so it made no sense.  That and the expense incurred for shipping both ways and still not having the results of a new amp.  There are a few KT88 amps out there, but personally, after much use of the KT family, I don't think it is a path worth following. Was not planning on upgrading to the AE model, but waiting for the McIntosh to be ready was an uncertainty.  Very glad I did buy the AE amp.  It is superior to the previous Feliks amps and am very satisfied with it. I compare it to buying a new car. The new one cost a lot more, and they both get you from here to there, but it is how you get there and the satisfaction of the ride. Not to mention, all things wear out. I was waiting for their new 2A3 amp, fantastic looking amp, totally new everywhere, but they opted to change to a 300B amp.  Willing to see this and give it a listen when it comes out. If a substantial upgrade, it will join my AE,


"Famtastic Looking amp" - did you see actual pictures of the prototypes?

If so would you be willing to share pictures (maybe via pm)?


----------



## connieflyer

I do have the photos, but I have asked Lukasz this morning if it would be alright to release them.  I am doubtful, as perhaps they will continue this at some future time. I certainly hope so.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Aug 7, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> I do have the photos, but I have asked Lukasz this morning if it would be alright to release them.  I am doubtful, as perhaps they will continue this at some future time. I certainly hope so.


I completely understand.

I wonder how long the response will take. 
Usually I received responses within 48h, the question about pricing is unanswered for 5 days now.

Do you know about any summer vacation maybe?


----------



## connieflyer

None that I'm aware of. But it is a small company with many facets that have to be attended to and they still have their own personal lives to attend to as well. I have dealt with far larger companies with hundreds of employees that would still take three or four days to get a reply back from them even though their customer service is supposedly fully staffed.


----------



## connieflyer

Of course the other obvious answer would be it would take time to lay out a new amplifier with all the parts having to be sourced and the possibility of using that as a basis for a future amplifier for sale to the General Public. But to take time out to rebuild an amplifier that would handle a different circuitry and price all the parts and the labor and sourcing out takes time especially considering that there are so many other things that he has on his plate


----------



## ThanatosVI

Yeah not conplaining at all.
Just noticed the increase in response time,  even though my other questions have been quite technical as well.

When we last spoke it also sounded like they knew already what to do, since they did it in previous Design trials. Maybe they have to look up their old Design documents. 

Luckily I am in no hurry whatsoever, selling my current amp might take a while anyways.


----------



## UntilThen

A 300b amp done right is an amp you will not want to give up. If you love tube amps, you will want one in your collection. The tone is one of coziness. Not a special formula for everyone but I know a lot love it.

Having gone through different tube amps of varying tube types, my preference is for the bigger tube types, whether indirect or direct heating. My Wa22 lies unattended and I have most of the good 6as7 / 6080. A one year stint with Studio Six was an interesting eye or ear opener to the sound of bigger tubes in the 6V6. It wasn't until I had an Elekit TU-8200 that I realized I much prefer the bigger tube types of KT88 / EL34, especially the latter. Then I got the 300b amp and subsequently an amp custom for EL11 and EL12 spez.

Guess I'm one of those that just prefer the euphony of tube amps tone because I did try to love solid state amps at the beginning of the year. I went through 4 or 5 ss amps and in the end sold them all. Enjoy your tube amps and your discovery of it.


----------



## UntilThen

I should kept the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP. The HP stands for headphone provision as well. This amp pumps out 80 watts in UL mode. 8 x KT88 is a sight to behold and I was going for KT150s before I sold it. HD800 out of this amp is astonishing. I have no doubt it will drive Susvara very well.


----------



## Deleeh

I think the Euforia will still be built a bit and then something new will come that will be more efficient and probably also go to another tube family in the development where the selection will be more common.
Maybe something with 6SN7 or El34 300b,Kt tubes.
Something like that will happen spontaneously, what is currently in demand and wanted and of course what can be procured from the tube market.
Maybe we will fall back on Euforia parts.
That would be the most sensible thing to do.


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Thanks for your kind words LW...us 'old timers' have tried to pass on as much assistance as possible these past years, and glad so many have appreciated the time and effort (not to mention _money!_) that's gone into it lol
> 
> And wowee LW, looks like you yourself certainly caught the experimentitis bug...sounds like yet another great 'unconventional' combo that these amps can accommodate...WELL DONE!  Anything else you've got your eye on? But please do be careful mon ami!!...CHEERS...CJ
> 
> ...


@Hypnos you are a treasure trove of wisdom. Keeping HP's unplugged when trying a new tube is a must, and so are clean tube pins. I use a knife edge to scrape gently then apply deoxit, May have to try fine emery paper as well!


----------



## Aquileolus

Deleeh said:


> @hypnos1
> Oh okay that doesn't sound good.
> Let's not do that then, thanks for the info.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the in depth answer! I'll probably use VC more on the tube amp, I have another SS amp for the planar


----------



## normie610

UntilThen said:


> A 300b amp done right is an amp you will not want to give up. If you love tube amps, you will want one in your collection. The tone is one of coziness. Not a special formula for everyone but I know a lot love it.


I concur, although what I have is a _preamp_ with 300B, but it already brings a very positive change in my system. That euphonic midrange is just unbelievable. Really look forward to Feliks’ new 300B amp.


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> @Hypnos you are a treasure trove of wisdom. Keeping HP's unplugged when trying a new tube is a must, and so are clean tube pins. I use a knife edge to scrape gently then apply deoxit, May have to try fine emery paper as well!


I use a different method to test any new setup or tube change. Instead of waiting to plug in my expensive headphones I use a pair of cheap headphones to test if there are noises and or pops - anything will do - even an airplane giveaway set.
Turn on amp.
Wait to see that everything lights up.
Plug in sacrificial headphones and leave them on/listen a couple of minutes.
If everything is OK, time to switch and plug in your favorite headphones.
A blown headphone driver is a good motivation to spend a little time on this procedure...


----------



## UntilThen

I use my HD650, the sacrificial lamb.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> I use my HD650, the sacrificial lamb.


The Drop HD6XX (Sennheiser HD650) costs $220. I use a Sennheiser HD201 that I bought open box from Amazon for $13. So far even explosive pops did not wreck the drivers on the HD201, but that was not the case with my T1 headphones...


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> I use a different method to test any new setup or tube change. Instead of waiting to plug in my expensive headphones I use a pair of cheap headphones to test if there are noises and or pops - anything will do - even an airplane giveaway set.
> Turn on amp.
> Wait to see that everything lights up.
> Plug in sacrificial headphones and leave them on/listen a couple of minutes.
> ...


My Elise is also connected as preamp to a pair of powered Audioengine speakers, not cheap but much less than the Auteur HP, so I use that as my initial test bed before plugging in HP.


----------



## hypnos1

mordy said:


> I use a different method to test any new setup or tube change. Instead of waiting to plug in my expensive headphones I use a pair of cheap headphones to test if there are noises and or pops - anything will do - even an airplane giveaway set.
> Turn on amp.
> Wait to see that everything lights up.
> Plug in sacrificial headphones and leave them on/listen a couple of minutes.
> ...



Hi m.

Yes indeed...of course this is an option for folks if they wish. As with UT, my sacrificial lamb was my HD650. But a much cheaper pair makes more sense really lol!


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> A 300b amp done right is an amp you will not want to give up. If you love tube amps, you will want one in your collection. The tone is one of coziness. Not a special formula for everyone but I know a lot love it.
> 
> Having gone through different tube amps of varying tube types, my preference is for the bigger tube types, whether indirect or direct heating. My Wa22 lies unattended and I have most of the good 6as7 / 6080. A one year stint with Studio Six was an interesting eye or ear opener to the sound of bigger tubes in the 6V6. It wasn't until I had an Elekit TU-8200 that I realized I much prefer the bigger tube types of KT88 / EL34, especially the latter. Then I got the 300b amp and subsequently an amp custom for EL11 and EL12 spez.
> 
> Guess I'm one of those that just prefer the euphony of tube amps tone because I did try to love solid state amps at the beginning of the year. I went through 4 or 5 ss amps and in the end sold them all. Enjoy your tube amps and your discovery of it.



Hi UT...and WOW, what a collection of amps/tubes you've got through these past years. An enviable situation to be sure (if one can afford it lol! )....WELL DONE!

And let's not forget the importance of everything else in the system...just how well all components marry can make all the difference between really good sound and _magical_ ... in particular the headphones used. For example, I personally feel my Empyreans benefit greatly from my Chord TT2/mscaler setup.

However, IMHO the latter didn't really fully shine until I upgraded _all_ my DIY cables (and plugs) to a spec that would unfortunately cost £thousands commercially. And even then, performance took a further (significant) leap with the Antipodes DX as source, transforming the Chords' speed/PRaT/resolution into a combination of solid state pros and very un-ss-like tube 'euphony', but minus the (divisive) 'coloring/variable FR emphasis' of tubes. Luckily, my ears and preferences suit this (perfectly balanced) sound, but many will of course like/need the tuning flexibility tubes can provide...not to mention the undoubted superior character/personality/fun of a tube amp lol!  I miss the latter terribly (apart from the occasional scare!), but health issues unfortunately contributed to my departure from tubedom . I would be fascinated to see if a future 300b FA amp could take things any further however......

HAPPY LISTENING guys...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Hi UT...and WOW, what a collection of amps/tubes you've got through these past years. An enviable situation to be sure (if one can afford it lol! )....WELL DONE!
> 
> And let's not forget the importance of everything else in the system...just how well all components marry can make all the difference between really good sound and _magical_ ... in particular the headphones used. For example, I personally feel my Empyreans benefit greatly from my Chord TT2/mscaler setup.
> 
> ...



Hi H1, my gear are in my signature. I reckon it's pretty balance now. About 3 months ago, I audition this system at the downtown Sydney shop for 2 hours.

Chord Qutest > Auris Nirvana > LCD4

3 weeks later I went back and audition this setup again for 2 hours.

Chord Hugo TT2 + MScalar > Susvara

I wasn't particularly pleased with that. Lacks body to my ears. So Wing the owner of the store, added Auris Nirvana as the amp to the chain. I was ok with that.

That's system cost $32000 aussie dollars but I did not feel that it better what I have back home. I still love Yggdrasil for what it does and didn't feel that it lose out to the Chord stack in any way.

There are many ways to get your ideal system and it's good to see everyone have a different setup. That plus personal preference.


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> Hi H1, my gear are in my signature. I reckon it's pretty balance now. About 3 months ago, I audition this system at the downtown Sydney shop for 2 hours.
> 
> Chord Qutest > Auris Nirvana > LCD4
> 
> ...


Yo UT...I can fully understand your experience with the Chord setup. It has taken me months to get it sounding with 'body'/fullness (even with the Empyreans), and which didn't excel until the Antipodes entered the scene lol . And in addition it brought precise separation - and more importantly, _placement_ within a 3D stage like I've never heard before. All of which has confirmed to me that this journey towards music nirvana is really a* very* long road, whichever route we take lol . And it's a fortunate soul indeed who can honestly feel happy to have finally reached it! I wish this for all you good folks out there. But we must also enjoy the journey as much as possible along the way of course...CHEERS!...CJ


----------



## mordy

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...I can fully understand your experience with the Chord setup. It has taken me months to get it sounding with 'body'/fullness (even with the Empyreans), and which didn't excel until the Antipodes entered the scene lol . And in addition it brought precise separation - and more importantly, _placement_ within a 3D stage like I've never heard before. All of which has confirmed to me that this journey towards music nirvana is really a* very* long road, whichever route we take lol . And it's a fortunate soul indeed who can honestly feel happy to have finally reached it! I wish this for all you good folks out there. But we must also enjoy the journey as much as possible along the way of course...CHEERS!...CJ


When you find your ideal setup it gets boring...
Now you have to listen to the music instead of your equipment lol.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 8, 2021)

mordy said:


> When you find your ideal setup it gets boring...
> Now you have to listen to the music instead of your equipment lol.


Aha m...how true lol! Only now, after years of toil/searching/learning/highs and lows am I actually spending more time _listening_ than _scrutinising_ what enters my ears!! But I do miss the critical analysing now and then...not to mention the excitement of stumbling upon unexpected surprises in the quest . And who knows...the ‘never say never again’ elf just might break through the defences once more!!!...CJ


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> When you find your ideal setup it gets boring...
> Now you have to listen to the music instead of your equipment lol.



In my world of tube amps, it never gets boring. My favorite songs just gets better.  It's better than Ecstasy. With 2 custom amps about to land on my lap for audition, the end is not necessary. With audio, it's always the journey and loving every minute of it. When the journey ends, that's it. The excitement fizzy out. 

I also prefer the convenience of my new PC over an expensive dedicated streamer. If I wanted precision and pure fidelity, my Rega RP8 and CD player is on the rack. I've seen my friend going from the Lumin to the Antipodes and then selling it all. I think he's losing it. But then he also went from LCD4 and He1000se to Susvara and Abyss 1266 Phi TC, only to see him trying to sell the Abyss later. 

I guess everyone's experience is different and at a certain point, the fidelity is good enough not to dwell on it. Then it's tonality that will appeal to us as listener.


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> In my world of tube amps, it never gets boring. My favorite songs just gets better.  It's better than Ecstasy. With 2 custom amps about to land on my lap for audition, the end is not necessary. With audio, it's always the journey and loving every minute of it. When the journey ends, that's it. The excitement fizzy out.
> 
> I also prefer the convenience of my new PC over an expensive dedicated streamer. If I wanted precision and pure fidelity, my Rega RP8 and CD player is on the rack. I've seen my friend going from the Lumin to the Antipodes and then selling it all. I think he's losing it. But then he also went from LCD4 and He1000se to Susvara and Abyss 1266 Phi TC, only to see him trying to sell the Abyss later.
> 
> I guess everyone's experience is different and at a certain point, the fidelity is good enough not to dwell on it. Then it's tonality that will appeal to us as listener.


Yes - it is the journey that counts. When you reach the end destination it's over....
To me fidelity and tonality has to be one package.
What is happiness? To be satisfied with what you have. It could be a cellphone with $20 wireless earbuds, or a tube system costing many thousands.
Did you ever notice that professional musicians rarely have expensive music systems?


----------



## Galapac

mordy said:


> Did you ever notice that professional musicians rarely have expensive music systems?


I have heard that too. It’s either that they can fill in their minds what is missing in the playback or they can’t hear too well so it doesn’t matter, lol.


----------



## UntilThen

Beethoven had a hearing problem early in his life. By 1796, he had begun to suffer from tinnitus and was losing his hearing. Beethoven composed his Piano Sonata No. 14 ('Moonlight') in 1802. What good is a Susvara to him?  

But that's no excuse to all of you to not get some audio gear. I said some. I didn't say how expensive or how cheap. Unless you're Beethoven and you can compose the Moonlight Sonata.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 9, 2021)

mordy said:


> Yes - it is the journey that counts. When you reach the end destination it's over....
> To me fidelity and tonality has to be one package.
> *What is happiness? To be satisfied with what you have. *It could be a cellphone with $20 wireless earbuds, or a tube system costing many thousands.
> Did you ever notice that professional musicians rarely have expensive music systems?


Well then m, that makes me a _very_ happy - and _fortunate_ guy (not to mention wallet lol) . Because as you know only too well yourself (but not as much as some!), it's scarily easy to catch the 'good is good, but better is better' bug!!  Fortunately, with Euforia (and Elise), their flexibility re. the variety of tubes that can be used (safely) should help folks fine tune to their own tastes...and who knows, win the battle against that pesky bug?!! 

Whatever, the journey will surely be an interesting and very enjoyable one - as was mine ...HAPPY LISTENING...


----------



## connieflyer

Two things this morning.  I would like the group to no longer talk about the journey being everything and when you reach the end, it's over.  Sounds too much like life! And I am on the latter part, and NOT looking forward to the end!  Just kidding of course, the other thing, I heard back this morning from Lukasz, and he said since the 2A3 amp was discontinued, there was not much sense in releasing the photos.  So I will just enjoy them myself.  He said he would send me some photos of the new 300B when the release photos are ready and I can share those.   Looking forward to seeing them and finding a way to audition one.


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> Two things this morning.  I would like the group to no longer talk about the journey being everything and when you reach the end, it's over.  Sounds too much like life! And I am on the latter part, and NOT looking forward to the end!  Just kidding of course, the other thing, I heard back this morning from Lukasz, and he said since the 2A3 amp was discontinued, there was not much sense in releasing the photos.  So I will just enjoy them myself.  He said he would send me some photos of the new 300B when the release photos are ready and I can share those.   Looking forward to seeing them and finding a way to audition one.


I'm looking forward to those pictures


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Two things this morning.  I would like the group to no longer talk about the journey being everything and when you reach the end, it's over.  Sounds too much like life! And I am on the latter part, and NOT looking forward to the end!  Just kidding of course, the other thing, I heard back this morning from Lukasz, and he said since the 2A3 amp was discontinued, there was not much sense in releasing the photos.  So I will just enjoy them myself.  He said he would send me some photos of the new 300B when the release photos are ready and I can share those.   Looking forward to seeing them and finding a way to audition one.



Well Don, it's ironic but I've always view my audio journey as my life's journey because these last 6 years, it's become so much a part of me. However no worries, we'll enjoy head-fi, hifi. There's a lot more to go. 

I've always wonder why Feliks Audio didn't turn the Aristo 2a3 into a headphone amp too and market it because there is certainly a market for another well made 2a3 amp. I'm also surprised that they stop showing the other higher end stereo tube amps in their website because I though they look gorgeous. What would be interesting is an amp that can use 2a3 / 45 / 300b.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 10, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> Two things this morning.  I would like the group to no longer talk about the journey being everything and when you reach the end, it's over.  Sounds too much like life! And I am on the latter part, and NOT looking forward to the end!  Just kidding of course, the other thing, I heard back this morning from Lukasz, and he said since the 2A3 amp was discontinued, there was not much sense in releasing the photos.  So I will just enjoy them myself.  He said he would send me some photos of the new 300B when the release photos are ready and I can share those.   Looking forward to seeing them and finding a way to audition one.





UntilThen said:


> Well Don, it's ironic but I've always view my audio journey as my life's journey because these last 6 years, it's become so much a part of me. However no worries, we'll enjoy head-fi, hifi. There's a lot more to go.
> 
> I've always wonder why Feliks Audio didn't turn the Aristo 2a3 into a headphone amp too and market it because there is certainly a market for another well made 2a3 amp. I'm also surprised that they stop showing the other higher end stereo tube amps in their website because I though they look gorgeous. What would be interesting is an amp that can use 2a3 / 45 / 300b.



Ah guys...I myself never dreamt that such a journey can go way beyond the realms of a mere _hobby_ or pastime. Nor that it can encompass so many disciplines...especially if one dabbles in a bit of DIY lol!  And unlike many other pursuits, I'm sure is one that stays the test of time..._thankfully!_

And like you cf, I'm so sad that Michal Feliks's initial design for a 2A3 based amp didn't come to fruition...it would have been the smartest looking amp I ever saw IMHO ...bar none!! I just hope the projected 300b amp can at least come somewhere near matching it . And yes UT...I always loved the design of their Arioso 2A3 speaker amp, and wondered why it wasn't converted for headphone use (as well!)....real shame IMO...


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Ah guys...I myself never dreamt that such a journey can go way beyond the realms of a mere _hobby_ or pastime. Nor that it can encompass so many disciplines...especially if one dabbles in a bit of DIY lol!  And unlike many other pursuits, I'm sure is one that stays the test of time..._thankfully!_



I think it's more interesting than our previous past time of orchids and koi but certainly more money draining.   Head-Fi killed my $3000 collection of orchids because I don't have time to look after them. I sure hope your koi survive lol.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 10, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> Well Don, it's ironic but I've always view my audio journey as my life's journey because these last 6 years, it's become so much a part of me. However no worries, we'll enjoy head-fi, hifi. There's a lot more to go.
> 
> I've always wonder why Feliks Audio didn't turn the Arioso 2a3 into a headphone amp too and market it because there is certainly a market for another well made 2a3 amp. *I'm also surprised that they stop showing the other higher end stereo* *tube amps in their website because I though they look gorgeous.* What would be interesting is an amp that can use 2a3 / 45 / 300b.


Well UT...I'm afraid the cynic in me suspects that just perhaps it's due to their original pricing being - by today's standards, unbelievably cheap lol!...???...


----------



## hypnos1

UntilThen said:


> I think it's more interesting than our previous past time of orchids and koi but certainly more money draining.   Head-Fi killed my $3000 collection of orchids because I don't have time to look after them. I sure hope your koi survive lol.


Yo UT...but in my case, the pressures of garden _and_ Koi (not to mention 'She who must be Obeyed') also contributed to my inability to keep up with the_ tube _journey. But at least the Koi (and pond!) have never looked so healthy lol...certainly better than _me!!!_......


----------



## UntilThen

hypnos1 said:


> Yo UT...but in my case, the pressures of garden _and_ Koi (not to mention 'She who must be Obeyed') also contributed to my inability to keep up with the_ tube _journey. But at least the Koi (and pond!) have never looked so healthy lol...certainly better than _me!!!_......



Ok that's funny and got me laughing at 5am in the morning.


----------



## Aquileolus

Hi folks, it was the fate!! 
I was just posting here ask about comparison between Euforia vs Elise and really struggling between these two. Then I somehow opened the classifieds and found out a gentleman just listed a Euforia with a very good price a few minutes back, and he happen to be in the same area with me so that we can trade in person and don't need to worry about shipping this heavy machine. I immediately pm him and by just a few minutes earlier then the second comment in that thread I got it! 
So here am I, so exciting to join the family! That said, can anyone point me to some 101 info about Euforia? Any tips or general Tube rolling options will be greatly appreciated 
BTW, my DAC use with it is Hugo TT2 and the headphone would be Verite Closed or Focal Clear.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## incredulousity

There is a lovely 600+ page thread. Peruse the Euforia and Elise threads. Gives you something to do while awaiting your amp. And you learn the history of all the interactions and wisdom of the great people in this thread, who precede the likes of us!


----------



## Galapac (Aug 10, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> There is a lovely 600+ page thread. Peruse the Euforia and Elise threads. Gives you something to do while awaiting your amp. And you learn the history of all the interactions and wisdom of the great people in this thread, who precede the likes of us!


Good point and don’t forget to use the search feature at the top of each thread, it can narrow your focus once you find what your are interested in reading up on.

This should get you started…

Thread 'Feliks Audio tube amps'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-tube-amps.854783/


----------



## mordy

When you read the thread, start from the most recent posts and work backwards - that way you will se which tubes people ended up using after trying a lot of different ones.
Which tubes does the amp come with?


----------



## Aquileolus

mordy said:


> When you read the thread, start from the most recent posts and work backwards - that way you will se which tubes people ended up using after trying a lot of different ones.
> Which tubes does the amp come with?


Thank you for the guidance, I think they are just the stock tubes, I don't even remember the names. I heard people said the stock tube are intend to be neutral, I'm thinking maybe I can try some tubes which can make it "Tubeier"... TBH, this is my first tube amp, so I don't even know what "Tubey" sound suppose to be, and if I will like it... complete Tube newbie here 
Anyway I think there still a lot I need to learn, when I read the thread and people talking about different tubes, I don't even know what are they and where to buy them


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> Two things this morning.  I would like the group to no longer talk about the journey being everything and when you reach the end, it's over.  Sounds too much like life! And I am on the latter part, and NOT looking forward to the end!  Just kidding of course, the other thing, I heard back this morning from Lukasz, and he said since the 2A3 amp was discontinued, there was not much sense in releasing the photos.  So I will just enjoy them myself.  He said he would send me some photos of the new 300B when the release photos are ready and I can share those.   Looking forward to seeing them and finding a way to audition one.


Don’t worry-it never ends!


----------



## mordy

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the guidance, I think they are just the stock tubes, I don't even remember the names. I heard people said the stock tube are intend to be neutral, I'm thinking maybe I can try some tubes which can make it "Tubeier"... TBH, this is my first tube amp, so I don't even know what "Tubey" sound suppose to be, and if I will like it... complete Tube newbie here
> Anyway I think there still a lot I need to learn, when I read the thread and people talking about different tubes, I don't even know what are they and where to buy them


You are asking a lot of very good questions!
The first step is to get the amp, plug it in, and listen and see how you like it.
After you get used to it you can begin the next steps.
When it comes to tubes there is no relationship between sound and price although some people would like you to believe that.


----------



## Aquileolus

mordy said:


> You are asking a lot of very good questions!
> The first step is to get the amp, plug it in, and listen and see how you like it.
> After you get used to it you can begin the next steps.
> When it comes to tubes there is no relationship between sound and price although some people would like you to believe that.


Thank you, I already got the amp, and I like how it sound better than a pure solid state (my Hugo TT2's amp), currently I'm using a Focal Clear on that, I'm still waiting for my VC, I feel that is where the Euforia will really shine, will waiting for that to have my final judgement


----------



## OctavianH

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the guidance, I think they are just the stock tubes, I don't even remember the names.


A picture makes more than 100 words. If you show us, we will try to help you identify them. I have also TT2 and I considered my tube amps better.


----------



## mordy

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you, I already got the amp, and I like how it sound better than a pure solid state (my Hugo TT2's amp), currently I'm using a Focal Clear on that, I'm still waiting for my VC, I feel that is where the Euforia will really shine, will waiting for that to have my final judgement





Aquileolus said:


> Thank you, I already got the amp, and I like how it sound better than a pure solid state (my Hugo TT2's amp), currently I'm using a Focal Clear on that, I'm still waiting for my VC, I feel that is where the Euforia will really shine, will waiting for that to have my final judgement


Can you describe what you feel is missing regarding the sound? And what you like?


----------



## incredulousity

New roll:

Drivers: KT88 
Powers: KT150 and TS5998

Thanks as always to @Deyan for making the gadgets which allow this silliness.

Sounds great. Really solid, meaty, and controlled bass. Tames but doesn’t ruin the overhot upper mids of the TS5998 nicely. A really great, dynamic experience. I’ll try dual KT150 powers later, but this is fun on this amp for a while, I expect.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> New roll:
> 
> Drivers: KT88
> Powers: KT150 and TS5998
> ...


An important note

KT88 as drivers and KT150 as power at the same time is extremely risky!!!.
They draw 7.2A together. Lukasz told me that 6.5 is the max and everything above poses risks.

KT77/EL34 + KT150 would be 6.8 also not recommended but less critical. 

Operating KT150 over longer periods is only save with the 6SN7 or similar low power requiring tubes.

Just wanted to point it out, not that another member tries the same and Fries his amp


----------



## Deyan

ThanatosVI said:


> An important note
> 
> KT88 as drivers and KT150 as power at the same time is extremely risky!!!.
> They draw 7.2A together. Lukasz told me that 6.5 is the max and everything above poses risks.
> ...


He has a separate power supply for the occasion


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deyan said:


> He has a separate power supply for the occasion


That is some next level modding.
Can I see pictures @incredulousity  ?

Unfortunately I still didn't hear back from Lukasz about my custom inquiries.


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> That is some next level modding.
> Can I see pictures @incredulousity  ?
> 
> Unfortunately I still didn't hear back from Lukasz about my custom inquiries.



@Deyan made external power supplies for me, with power connections for up to 6 tubes. One is for the GU50 tubes, and the other is for tubes with the stock voltage and base, connected to GU50 adapters and socket savers, respectively. The adapter provides enough power for me to use  any combination of 6 tubes that can be adapted to the amp, so I use KTXX adapters in conjunction with the sockets savers. I use @Deyan splitters to run dual powers in the back. 

Euforia AE has a limit of 7.2A, but with powered adapters on all the powers, I just use the 3.2A for the drivers. 

It bears repeating that no one should try this without proper external power supply for the tubes. 

My audio area looks horrid right now, but when I dust and tidy up, I’ll post pics.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> Euforia AE has a limit of 7.2A


The official Statement is 6.5A, more is risky according to Feliks Audio


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> The official Statement is 6.5A, more is risky according to Feliks Audio



If you have this from him, then go by it, but I thought 6.5A was the limit for the Elise, and that Euforia AE was higher. I’ll RTFM when I can find it, but my tubes need not draw any power from the amp, if I prefer. 

I should mention that this combo sounds great so far with HD800S and Focal Clear MG.


----------



## mordy

In the early days Elise was limited to 6.5A and the Euforia to 7A. Adding external fan cooling could increase it a little, say 0.5A or a drop more.
With external power you are only limited by your external power supply.
If you want to drive your planar headphones you could hook up a pair of 6336B tubes for over 10A of current draw combined with the driver tubes.
Because of the in-rush current at start- up it is recommended to have a third more power available, say a 15A power supply for 10A of current draw.
In the past I tried a lot of different tubes; lots of fun, but I got tired of all the wires and adapters and ultimately opted for a cleaner look (and more powerful amplifier).


----------



## Galapac (Aug 13, 2021)

incredulousity said:


> @Deyan made external power supplies for me, with power connections for up to 6 tubes. One is for the GU50 tubes, and the other is for tubes with the stock voltage and base, connected to GU50 adapters and socket savers, respectively. The adapter provides enough power for me to use  any combination of 6 tubes that can be adapted to the amp, so I use KTXX adapters in conjunction with the sockets savers. I use @Deyan splitters to run dual powers in the back.
> 
> Euforia AE has a limit of 7.2A, but with powered adapters on all the powers, I just use the 3.2A for the drivers.
> 
> ...


Can you show us some pics of this setup? If its not too intrusive I may ask Deyan for the same.

Edit: Saw you said you would post pics once cleaned up...can't wait to see.


----------



## Deyan

Galapac said:


> Can you show us some pics of this setup? If its not too intrusive I may ask Deyan for the same.
> 
> Edit: Saw you said you would post pics once cleaned up...can't wait to see.



I wouldn't mind.


----------



## Galapac

Deyan said:


> I wouldn't mind.


@Deyan - I was meaning if it wasn't too big (the extended power supply)  against the Euforia amp.
I'll be reaching out to you soon possibly for something such as this and some socket adapters for the KTXX for the Euforia but I'm not ready yet.

You built some adapters for me before as well as many others on this site and your work is beyond exceptional!


----------



## Deyan

Thank you. 
I'm always available.


----------



## Aquileolus

mordy said:


> Can you describe what you feel is missing regarding the sound? And what you like?


I asked my wife to help me did a blind test across Hugo TT2 amp/Burson Soloist 3xp/Euforia, what I can tell is Euforia is smoother than the other two without sacrificing details which I like, and the sound is a little more delicate if that make sense...  
I think my problem is the sound of Euforia isn't different enough to the other two solid state amps as I expected, especially the Burson Soloist, I guessed wrong between this two for a couple songs. The three amps all sounds good with the Focal Clear I used to test, but I just hope the difference between them can be large enough for me to keep all of them. 
Is there some good tube options for the first time tube roller which can make the sound smoother and more different from the SS amps?



OctavianH said:


> A picture makes more than 100 words. If you show us, we will try to help you identify them. I have also TT2 and I considered my tube amps better.


Here's the picture, one thing I found a little bit weird, is mine doesn't have the top logo as the pictures I saw online, probably the previous owner removed it...


----------



## Galapac

Aquileolus said:


> I asked my wife to help me did a blind test across Hugo TT2 amp/Burson Soloist 3xp/Euforia, what I can tell is Euforia is smoother than the other two without sacrificing details which I like, and the sound is a little more delicate if that make sense...
> I think my problem is the sound of Euforia isn't different enough to the other two solid state amps as I expected, especially the Burson Soloist, I guessed wrong between this two for a couple songs. The three amps all sounds good with the Focal Clear I used to test, but I just hope the difference between them can be large enough for me to keep all of them.
> Is there some good tube options for the first time tube roller which can make the sound smoother and more different from the SS amps?
> 
> ...


 
Nope. Some don’t have them and mine is one of them as well. I asked my distributor and he said Feliks sometimes sends them out without the logo on the transformer housing. I have requested to see if they can send me one. I was thinking of placing it on the front of the housing as opposed to the top as I like to rest my portable DAC on top of the unit.


----------



## Aquileolus

Galapac said:


> Nope. Some don’t have them and mine is one of them as well. I asked my distributor and he said Feliks sometimes sends them out without the logo on the transformer housing. I have requested to see if they can send me one. I was thinking of placing it on the front of the housing as opposed to the top as I like to rest my portable DAC on top of the unit.


Thank you for the information, and nice picture!!
BTW, I think I saw you in the ZMF VC thread as well, are you using Euforia with VC? And how do you like your current tubes vs the stock tubes for VC?
I'm also an upcoming VC owner


----------



## Galapac (Aug 13, 2021)

I like this amp with the VC, VO, and Focal Utopias.
The stock tubes are actually nice with this amp but I have many 6AS7/6SN7 type tubes because I also own a Dark Voice amp so I didn’t have to buy more tubes.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> In the early days Elise was limited to 6.5A and the Euforia to 7A. Adding external fan cooling could increase it a little, say 0.5A or a drop more.
> With external power you are only limited by your external power supply.
> If you want to drive your planar headphones you could hook up a pair of 6336B tubes for over 10A of current draw combined with the driver tubes.
> Because of the in-rush current at start- up it is recommended to have a third more power available, say a 15A power supply for 10A of current draw.
> In the past I tried a lot of different tubes; lots of fun, but I got tired of all the wires and adapters and ultimately *opted for a cleaner look (and more powerful amplifier).*


@mordy what is your current set up. Would love to know where you settled after the rabbit hole grew tiresome.


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 14, 2021)

Aquileolus said:


> I asked my wife to help me did a blind test across Hugo TT2 amp/Burson Soloist 3xp/Euforia, what I can tell is Euforia is smoother than the other two without sacrificing details which I like, and the sound is a little more delicate if that make sense...
> I think my problem is the sound of Euforia isn't different enough to the other two solid state amps as I expected, especially the Burson Soloist, I guessed wrong between this two for a couple songs. The three amps all sounds good with the Focal Clear I used to test, but I just hope the difference between them can be large enough for me to keep all of them.
> Is there some good *tube options for the first time tube roller which can make the sound smoother and more different from the SS *amps?


It's difficult to generalize as synergy across the entire chain is impactful, but I do think some of the vintage British tubes (Mullard, Marconi, GEC, Brimar) bring out more distinction from SS. My experience is with Elise, not Euforia, so YMMV. As one example, GEC KT-88 powers (with adapters by @Deyan) along with Ken Rad VT-231 drivers sound particularly good with a warm musicality that doesn't sacrifice detail or coherent frequency balance. The GEC KT-88 are quite pricey, however, and the pages of this thread contain many great options for less.


----------



## OctavianH

Aquileolus said:


> Here's the picture, one thing I found a little bit weird, is mine doesn't have the top logo as the pictures I saw online, probably the previous owner removed it...


From what I see those are the stock tubes: Psvane CV181T2 and Svetlana 6H13C.


----------



## Aquileolus

LoryWiv said:


> It's difficult to generalize as synergy across the entire chain is impactful, but I do think some of the vintage British tubes (Mullard, Marconi, GEC, Brimar) bring out more distinction from SS. My experience is with Elise, not Euforia, so YMMV. As one example, GEC KT-88 powers (with adapters by @Deyan) along with Ken Rad VT-231 drivers sound particularly good with a warm musicality that doesn't sacrifice detail or coherent frequency balance. The GEC KT-88 are quite pricey, however, and the pages of this thread contain many great options for less.


Thank you for the suggestion, I'm scanning through this thread and also found quad KT-88 with @Deyan adapter setup was really popular and I think that might worth to try as my first rolling attempt, the GEC KT-88 are indeed pricey... so I guess I will start with the gold lion ones, and hopefully can also purchase some adapters from @Deyan


----------



## Deyan

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I'm scanning through this thread and also found quad KT-88 with @Deyan adapter setup was really popular and I think that might worth to try as my first rolling attempt, the GEC KT-88 are indeed pricey... so I guess I will start with the gold lion ones, and hopefully can also purchase some adapters from @Deyan


I don't see a reason why not.


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 14, 2021)

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I'm scanning through this thread and also found quad KT-88 with @Deyan adapter setup was really popular and I think that might worth to try as my first rolling attempt, the GEC KT-88 are indeed pricey... so I guess I will start with the gold lion ones, and hopefully can also purchase some adapters from @Deyan


Sure, definitely a valid choice. The Gold Lion KT-88 are amongst the best of new production tubes. However, I did try the GL KT-88 as a quad and felt it was too analytic. Perhaps you might want to use the GL KT-88's in the power slots (they really are designed as and best suited for power tube duties IMO) and try to score some vintage tube magic for drivers. Something like Ken-Rad VT-231 drivers or if too pricey, vintage 6SN7 drivers (Sylvania, RCA, former being known as brighter, latter a bit warmer). Another way to experience vintage or NOS drivers is to try 6V6 / VT-107A, I have pairs from Ken-Rad, Sylvania and Tung-Sol that are really quite good, sonically much like their 6SN7 siblings but often less expensive.  *Here* is an example of Ken-Rad VT-107A's from a seller I've bought from who is quite reliable, and they are less than 1/2 of what equivalent 6SN7's sell for.

Note that the VT-107A work flawlessly in my Elise as drivers with the same adapters used for KT-88 powers, so if you get 4 of these adapters from @Deyan you are all set and ready to roll (pun intended)! Feel free to PM me if the above is confusing. I know it was to me when I first began on this journey.


----------



## OctavianH

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I'm scanning through this thread and also found quad KT-88 with @Deyan adapter setup was really popular and I think that might worth to try as my first rolling attempt, the GEC KT-88 are indeed pricey... so I guess I will start with the gold lion ones, and hopefully can also purchase some adapters from @Deyan


The Gold Lion KT88 are very good, but also some very good new production KT88 are the Psvane KT88T2. These are already out of production, as far as I know, but can be still obtained. A little bit more expenssive than the Gold Lions but still much under the NOS counterparts.





You can read about these on several other threads, just search.

PS. If you ask Deyan to make you adapters for 6V6 -> 6SN7 (to use KT88 in Euforia/Elise) ask him to make them also compatible to EL34.


----------



## Aquileolus

LoryWiv said:


> Sure, definitely a valid choice. The Gold Lion KT-88 are amongst the best of new production tubes. However, I did try the GL KT-88 as a quad and felt it was too analytic. Perhaps you might want to use the GL KT-88's in the power slots (they really are designed as and best suited for power tube duties IMO) and try to score some vintage tube magic for drivers. Something like Ken-Rad VT-231 drivers or if too pricey, vintage 6SN7 drivers (Sylvania, RCA, former being known as brighter, latter a bit warmer). Another way to experience vintage or NOS drivers is to try 6V6 / VT-107A, I have pairs from Ken-Rad, Sylvania and Tung-Sol that are really quite good, sonically much like their 6SN7 siblings but often less expensive.  *Here* is an example of Ken-Rad VT-107A's from a seller I've bought from who is quite reliable, and they are less than 1/2 of what equivalent 6SN7's sell for.
> 
> Note that the VT-107A work flawlessly in my Elise as drivers with the same adapters used for KT-88 powers, so if you get 4 of these adapters from @Deyan you are all set and ready to roll (pun intended)! Feel free to PM me if the above is confusing. I know it was to me when I first began on this journey.





OctavianH said:


> The Gold Lion KT88 are very good, but also some very good new production KT88 are the Psvane KT88T2. These are already out of production, as far as I know, but can be still obtained. A little bit more expenssive than the Gold Lions but still much under the NOS counterparts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you guys for the detailed suggestion, really appreciate it!! I will definitely consider the Psvane KT88T2 and some vintage driver tubes! 
Still trying to catch up on the thread, currently at 2019 Christmas posts  a little too many readings for a non-native English speaker like me, but there are so many good contents in this thread, don't want to miss any of those


----------



## LoryWiv

Found this picture from several weeks ago. Ken-Rad VT-231 drivers --> Gold Lion KT-88 powers. An excellent combination:


----------



## OctavianH

LoryWiv said:


> Found this picture from several weeks ago. Ken-Rad VT-231 drivers --> Gold Lion KT-88 powers. An excellent combination:


If even Einstein approves this combo, how can we disagree.


----------



## connieflyer

Another suggestion is to use the KT77 as drivers.  It will give a warmer sound to the KT88's as powers.  These are like the EL34 and I liked them very much.  Take your time, lots of combinations to try, and tubes and equipment need time to burn in and stabilize to sound there best. And don't forget your ears, they need time to adjust to the new sounds to really hear the difference.  These changes for the most part are not like night and day, they more like twilight.  Most of all, have fun, and enjoy the music.


----------



## hypnos1

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you guys for the detailed suggestion, really appreciate it!! I will definitely consider the Psvane KT88T2 and some vintage driver tubes!
> *Still trying to catch up on the thread, currently at 2019 Christmas posts  a little too many readings for a non-native English speaker like me, but there are so many good contents in this thread, don't want to miss any of those *



Ah Aquiel, a marathon project indeed...but well done for tackling it lol! . And yes, you should be able to find pretty well most of what you need to know on many topics hidden somewhere within!! So, just take your time, give yourself plenty of breathers (not to mention coffee breaks!)...and when done, there's even more posts on all the Elise threads!! ....CHEERS...CJ

ps. Hope you enjoy the journey, as well as learn a good bit more about this fascinating hobby...


----------



## mordy

LoryWiv said:


> @mordy what is your current set up. Would love to know where you settled after the rabbit hole grew tiresome.


The truth is that I stopped rolling tubes in the Euforia quite some time ago since I got a different amp with more power and flexibility. I did not keep up with all the new developments so the setup I ended up with is not representative of the state of the art, or rather, state of the roll.
The best sound I got was from a pair of Foton ribbed plates 6H8C from the early 50’s and a pair of GEC 6080.
Have not tried any of the GU-50 or KT series tubes although I am sure they sound very good.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> The truth is that I stopped rolling tubes in the Euforia quite some time ago since I got a *different amp with more power and flexibilit*y. I did not keep up with all the new developments so the setup I ended up with is not representative of the state of the art, or rather, state of the roll.
> The best sound I got was from a pair of Foton ribbed plates 6H8C from the early 50’s and a pair of GEC 6080.
> Have not tried any of the GU-50 or KT series tubes although I am sure they sound very good.


Thanks for the update, @mordy. There is clearly no single best solution for all, what amp. are you referring to above?

In any case, thanks for all of the guidance you have provided along the way. it has been invaluable.


----------



## shafat777

connieflyer said:


> Another suggestion is to use the KT77 as drivers.  It will give a warmer sound to the KT88's as powers.  These are like the EL34 and I liked them very much.  Take your time, lots of combinations to try, and tubes and equipment need time to burn in and stabilize to sound there best. And don't forget your ears, they need time to adjust to the new sounds to really hear the difference.  These changes for the most part are not like night and day, they more like twilight.  Most of all, have fun, and enjoy the music.


I for one, did not like the KT77 as drivers with my KT88 powers in my ELISE. Both were gold lions. The kT77 muddied the overall sound. It did however add a 3d soundstage that i have yet to reproduce with any other tube combo. But the veiled sound put me off. But KT88 powers are a definite must have for those who dont want to spend a fortune, at the gold lion ones are affordable.


----------



## mayurs

So after reading a bit on the KT88 tubes am I correct in assuming that one can directly use KT88 as power with any 6sn7 as a driver without any external adapter or power supplies? Another question that keeps popping up is that am I correct in assuming that since the KT88s draw a lot less power than standard 6as7g or a 6080 power tube, does it also need a much higher cranking of the volume pot to reach the same sound level as using a 6080/6as7g power tube? Thank you in advance.


----------



## connieflyer

You MUST use adapters for any of the KT tubes.  Deyan here or ebay puts out adapters that work fine.  You might have a small reduction in volumn but not much. Nice side effect is cooler running amp. I will probably be going back to a quad of GU50's soon, and with these amp is just barely warm. Shafat777 was wondering what headphones you are using, I have not run into a problem with tubes sounding "veiled".  Curious, is all, I usually run Sennheiser 800 or the Oppo PM-1 and do not get any effect like that.


----------



## hypnos1 (Aug 16, 2021)

Well @shafat777 and @connieflyer , such differences in findings are of course the double-edged sword in tubedom alas, and one I'm afraid finally tainted my own love affair with tubes....something I never anticipated lol! But for those happy and willing to keep sampling different fare until (hopefully) finding one's own sweet spot, such variety can of course be very helpful in said quest.

As I myself continued to progressively upgrade all other parts of my system, I found that my previous (long term) favourite tubes would suddenly display properties that I felt could be improved...hence my (almost) manic continual search for new tubes to do the trick!   Given that ALL tubes 'color' the original sound source - ie _distort_ it to some degree or other, my personal craving for  a more precise, true-to-the-original recording reproduction - (along with being a detail freak!) - is what finally led me to what IMHO brought the least 'distorted' tube presentation, with the clearest/most 'veil'-free delivery of all those that went before - namely the ridiculously cheap Russian Military GU50, which I had driving a dual power combo of GU50 and GEC KT88 (or, rather, the top anode TT21 equivalent). It's such a shame the GU50 needs 12V heater supply; a giant adapter and must be the least pretty tube on the planet!! But boy, what a sound..._in my system_ ....and _almost_ what I craved.... If I were to go approaching an amp maker once again, I'd definitely suggest configuring for such a combination...with perhaps facility for an additional 6SN7 double triode driver for any sound tweaking/flexibility. And although the only alternative to the Russian tube seems to be an inferior Chinese one, there appears to be a plentiful supply of the Russian due to massive military over-production! But 'pie in the sky' to be sure alas, methinks....

Anyway, enough of my ramblings...and as has been stated _many_ times before, no 2 systems will ever sound exactly the same (not to mention differences in hearing/preference!). Hence that interminable(?!) rabbit chase ...CHEERS guys...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

H that is precisely why I am going back to the GU50's. Wanted to go back and try other combo's that I have had over the last few years,  and while they all sound good, the GU50's were the best solution for me.  Thank you for doing the leg work on these and many other tubes.  A learning curve to be sure.


----------



## Deleeh

hypnos1 said:


> Well @shafat777 and @connieflyer , such differences in findings are of course the double-edged sword in tubedom alas, and one I'm afraid finally tainted my own love affair with tubes....something I never anticipated lol! But for those happy and willing to keep sampling different fare until (hopefully) finding one's own sweet spot, such variety can of course be very helpful in said quest.
> 
> As I myself continued to progressively upgrade all other parts of my system, I found that my previous (long term) favourite tubes would suddenly display properties that I felt could be improved...hence my (almost) manic continual search for new tubes to do the trick!   Given that ALL tubes 'color' the original sound source - ie _distort_ it to some degree or other, my personal craving for  a more precise, true-to-the-original recording reproduction - (along with being a detail freak!) - is what finally led me to what IMHO brought the least 'distorted' tube presentation, with the clearest/most 'veil'-free delivery of all those that went before - namely the ridiculously cheap Russian Military GU50, which I had driving a dual power combo of GU50 and GEC KT88 (or, rather, the top anode TT21 equivalent). It's such a shame the GU50 needs 12V heater supply; a giant adapter and must be the least pretty tube on the planet!! But boy, what a sound..._in my system_ ....and _almost_ what I craved.... If I were to go approaching an amp maker once again, I'd definitely suggest configuring for such a combination...with perhaps facility for an additional 6SN7 double triode driver for any sound tweaking/flexibility. And although the only alternative to the Russian tube seems to be an inferior Chinese one, there appears to be a plentiful supply of the Russian due to massive military over-production! But 'pie in the sky' to be sure alas, methinks....
> 
> Anyway, enough of my ramblings...and as has been stated _many_ times before, no 2 systems will ever sound exactly the same (not to mention differences in hearing/preference!). Hence that interminable(?!) rabbit chase ...CHEERS guys...CJ


Hello,
If you rave so much about the tube family why don't you have one built?
If not right after your conception?

I am currently building a hybrid amp that will have enough power to drive the Dc Aeon R/T and more.
With a base of 6sn7 tubes.
Price-wise it is affordable.
The downside is that you have to wait a bit for it, 2-3 months, but even that time will pass.


----------



## hypnos1

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> If you rave so much about the tube family why don't you have one built?
> If not right after your conception?
> 
> ...


Hi D. Good question! I'm afraid the prospect of a custom-built amp (from whom?) to such a spec, along with the kinds of components I would have preferred seemed, to me, to be a project that was either not a feasible one or _if_ considered, would be beyond my purse at the time. And subsequently, other life factors unfortunately steered me away from a continued life with tubes. Had I been younger (and fitter!), I may well have tried to pursue it further ...CJ


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hello, if after the Cetron 7236 tubes I would like to try the Gold Lion KT88 I would need adapters, does anyone have a link? Preferably goldpin. Now I have the 7236 but they went up in price with 100 dollar from 140 a pair towards 240. KT88 are a bargain compared. I would combine them with 6sn7 I presume. Thanks


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 21, 2021)

Many on these forums request adapters from member @Deyan whose work is excellent.

Ebay also sells: https://www.ebay.com/itm/193142155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl


----------



## Yoram Diamand

LoryWiv said:


> Many on these forums request adapters from membner @Deyan whose work is excellent.
> 
> Ebay also sells: https://www.ebay.com/itm/193142155772?hash=item2cf82b69fc:g:20wAAOSwZ15dlpRl


Ebay is Goldpin and 30 euro all in, Deyan is 40 but not gold pin or custom made, I guess I am too poor to have custom made hifi. Thank you. Gold Lion KT88 will be outside warranty but affordable. I hope not to damage the amp. With 6sn7 inside the laws of physics.


----------



## Galapac

Yoram Diamand said:


> Ebay is Goldpin and 30 euro all in, Deyan is 40 but not gold pin or custom made, I guess I am too poor to have custom made hifi. Thank you. Gold Lion KT88 will be outside warranty but affordable. I hope not to damage the amp. With 6sn7 inside the laws of physics.


If budget is a concern you can go with 6AS7G or Russian 6N13S which is similar to the stock tubes.
IMO the stock tubes are really good but I tend to roll in 6080 variants too, all within warranty.


----------



## OctavianH (Aug 21, 2021)

I've shared some time ago this link but I guess some new people appeared. It might be of use, so I'll share it again:
https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=663.msg30393#msg30393
Here you have some descriptions, for another amplifier but might be similar, for some well known tubes.
Many of them are expenssive now, but however, you can read and see what they are all about.
These are power tubes compatible with Elise/Euforia. Some years ago I used this to get an idea about them.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Galapac said:


> If budget is a concern you can go with 6AS7G or Russian 6N13S which is similar to the stock tubes.
> IMO the stock tubes are really good but I tend to roll in 6080 variants too, all within warranty.


I am curious about the sound of the gold lion KT88 outside warranty, I have 2 pair 6N13S. If it sounds great, and will not destroy the amp, everybody happy. If I destroy the amp I am most certainly a fool.


----------



## incredulousity

Yoram Diamand said:


> I am curious about the sound of the gold lion KT88 outside warranty, I have 2 pair 6N13S. If it sounds great, and will not destroy the amp, everybody happy. If I destroy the amp I am most certainly a fool.


Many here have used the Gold Lion KT88 on Euforia and Elise. You will not damage your amp, but you must use the correct adapters, and stay within the current constraints of the amp.


----------



## Deleeh

Yoram Diamand said:


> I am curious about the sound of the gold lion KT88 outside warranty, I have 2 pair 6N13S. If it sounds great, and will not destroy the amp, everybody happy. If I destroy the amp I am most certainly a fool.


Hello,
Myphone has exchanged the Mundorf capacitors for the V caps.
And had reported that the increase has increased.
Read a few pages back and maybe this upgrade will be more effective and interesting for you when your Euforia is out of warranty.
Possibly better than going to Kt88.

It doesn't necessarily belong here, but it might be helpful as an inspiration.
My Little Dot 1+ was defective because of a tube socket and capacitor.
I changed both and replaced the Elna electrolytic capacitors with Nichicon Fg and yesterday I replaced the original Op amp with the Burson V5i and the result was quite surprisingly great.
The little one has been making a real noise ever since.had done justice to many things but not this one.
I don't want to say that the Mundorf used in the Euforia are bad, but if there are better ones that can offer a bigger upgrade, why not?

Maybe @myphone can report more on this and contribute some insights.


----------



## Galapac

Only use the 6N13S in the back 2 sockets, not all 4 as I think that is too much heater current.
You can use 2 6N13S in the back 2 and any 6SN7GT/GTA/GTB and equivalent in the front with no issue as those are within the 7 amp operating spec of the Euforia.


----------



## connieflyer

Yorbam I have have used the Gold Lion kt66 as drivers and the Katy 88 as Powers off and on for the last year or so and have had no ill effects. At that time I had the uforia app and I now have the Emporia a e and have had very results with these tubes


----------



## connieflyer

This photo is from today


----------



## Renexx

connieflyer said:


> This photo is from today


 Does these type of tubes sound better than like a 6sn7 and 6080 combination?

Or is it just good bang for the buck compared to  good NOS tubes ?


----------



## Yoram Diamand

On 22 Aug 2021, at 08:59, Yoram Diamand <yoramdiamand@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello Lukasz, I bought some Chi-fi goldpin converter for KT88 as the price of the 7236 went up 100 dollar, from 139 towards 240 dollar a pair at Woo. I wrote to Tube factories, please make an affordable 7236/5998 tube or the Euforia/ WA2/ WA22 will become worthless as the New Old Stock becomes extinct. The KT88/ 6sn7 combo will not make the euforia explode or something but I will not throw away my amp when the 7236 tubes I have die on me. I guess the Cetron 7236 will be better than the Gold Lion KT88 but the Gold Lion will not be terrible, I hope. Kind regards Yoram

Hi Yoram

The KT88 is not meant to be used in Euforia/Elise, it may lead to damage to the amplifier. You can use 7236 or any other 6AS7/6N13S/6080 family tubes - plenty of these on the market.

Regards
Lukasz

*Feliks Audio* - handcrafted tube amplifiers
www.feliksaudio.pl
Follow us on facebook


----------



## LoryWiv

Renexx said:


> Does these type of tubes sound better than like a 6sn7 and 6080 combination?
> 
> Or is it just good bang for the buck compared to  good NOS tubes ?


Very subjective to be sure, but I actually prefer the 6L6 / KT66, KT88 type tubes as powers in Elise. They also draw less heater current and run cooler, I also have some 6V6 that are a bit anemic as powers but make very nice drivers. It is good to have options but of course YMMV.

Here is what I am running this pleasant Sunday afternoon. The powers are Sylvania 5932, a 6L6 variant. Drivers are Ken-Rad VT-107A, a 6V6 variant. Adapters are by our friend @Deyan. Leif Ove Adsnes playing Mozart's Piano Concerto #2 with the Mahler Chamber Orchestra is sounding quite fine. Albert and the gang are appreciative and enjoying the music!


----------



## LoryWiv

Yoram Diamand said:


> On 22 Aug 2021, at 08:59, Yoram Diamand <yoramdiamand@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Lukasz, I bought some Chi-fi goldpin converter for KT88 as the price of the 7236 went up 100 dollar, from 139 towards 240 dollar a pair at Woo. I wrote to Tube factories, please make an affordable 7236/5998 tube or the Euforia/ WA2/ WA22 will become worthless as the New Old Stock becomes extinct. The KT88/ 6sn7 combo will not make the euforia explode or something but I will not throw away my amp when the 7236 tubes I have die on me. I guess the Cetron 7236 will be better than the Gold Lion KT88 but the Gold Lion will not be terrible, I hope. Kind regards Yoram
> ...


Yes, Luckaz is entitled and expected to say that and it is strictly correct. However, many of use as posted here on the forum have had great experience with KT-88. It is up to you whether you wish to try of course.


----------



## Deleeh

I would prefer to change the capacitors instead of changing to non-approved tubes that are not approved by Feliks.
The whole thing is done in 1-2 hours and can be done again and dust off the approved tube families that are in the drawer and test if it could have improved.

Everything else is the typical rabbit hole.
It doesn't have to be the expensive Vcaps, it can also be the ones from Audio Note or Janzten.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> I would prefer to change the capacitors instead of changing to non-approved tubes that are not approved by Feliks.
> The whole thing is done in 1-2 hours and can be done again and dust off the approved tube families that are in the drawer and test if it could have improved.
> 
> Everything else is the typical rabbit hole.
> It doesn't have to be the expensive Vcaps, it can also be the ones from Audio Note or Janzten.


I highly doubt a capacitor change would be any more approved though


----------



## shafat777

This is my Elise with the same tube setup as  DR @LoryWiv


----------



## Lanvin

Are there any distinctive differences between the regular euforia and the AE edition? I unfortunately cannot A/B both of them for sonic comparisons because a local dealer is unavailable to me at this current time. I have been reading the thread but I am still undecided if I should just spend the extra cash for the AE and get it over with.


----------



## connieflyer

After viewing your post, I figured I would give that combo a try.  Don't know why I had not done this one before.  Sound is excellent, thanks for posting, another great combo to put in the rotation


----------



## LoryWiv

Question for other users running low impedance HP out of Euforia:  My only experience with Elise thus far is with my beloved ZMF Auteur at 300 ohm impedance. Iam very interested in the Clear Mg as a complimentary set but in general it's stated that Elise / Euforia with their high output impedance around 50 ohms are better suited for high impedance headphones. However, Feliks specs state compatibility at 32-600 ohms. T

hus the question, can one get good synergy with Elise / Eforia out to relatively low impedance headphones like Clear, Stellia, Empyrean or does it alter the sound signature and tonality in potentially undesirable ways?

Thoughts from other users appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Question for other users running low impedance HP out of Euforia:  My only experience with Elise thus far is with my beloved ZMF Auteur at 300 ohm impedance. Iam very interested in the Clear Mg as a complimentary set but in general it's stated that Elise / Euforia with their high output impedance around 50 ohms are better suited for high impedance headphones. However, Feliks specs state compatibility at 32-600 ohms. T
> 
> hus the question, can one get good synergy with Elise / Eforia out to relatively low impedance headphones like Clear, Stellia, Empyrean or does it alter the sound signature and tonality in potentially undesirable ways?
> 
> Thoughts from other users appreciated. Thanks!


Hello,
I occasionally use the Fostex tr x00 and the Denon D2000 with 25 ohm and it's still OK.
No problems, but it's different with the Aeon R/T.
If you listen with it quietly it still works but as soon as you increase the volume it starts to distort.
That's where the Euforia reaches its limits.
Nevertheless, it has to be said that it was not built for this.
So with the Focal series, neither will have any problems.
I hope that helps you.


----------



## Ichos

LoryWiv said:


> Question for other users running low impedance HP out of Euforia:  My only experience with Elise thus far is with my beloved ZMF Auteur at 300 ohm impedance. Iam very interested in the Clear Mg as a complimentary set but in general it's stated that Elise / Euforia with their high output impedance around 50 ohms are better suited for high impedance headphones. However, Feliks specs state compatibility at 32-600 ohms. T
> 
> hus the question, can one get good synergy with Elise / Eforia out to relatively low impedance headphones like Clear, Stellia, Empyrean or does it alter the sound signature and tonality in potentially undesirable ways?
> 
> Thoughts from other users appreciated. Thanks!


The Elise no but the Euforia yes.
It has good current delivery so it is suitable for easy to drive lowish Z headphones. (50-100Ω).
I use it with the Empyrean and Focal Clear Mg/OG with great results.


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> Question for other users running low impedance HP out of Euforia:  My only experience with Elise thus far is with my beloved ZMF Auteur at 300 ohm impedance. Iam very interested in the Clear Mg as a complimentary set but in general it's stated that Elise / Euforia with their high output impedance around 50 ohms are better suited for high impedance headphones. However, Feliks specs state compatibility at 32-600 ohms. T
> 
> hus the question, can one get good synergy with Elise / Eforia out to relatively low impedance headphones like Clear, Stellia, Empyrean or does it alter the sound signature and tonality in potentially undesirable ways?
> 
> Thoughts from other users appreciated. Thanks!


The Euforia AE is said to be an excellent pairing for the Meze Empyrean,  despite its 32 Ohm impedance.

This could be due to the insane sensitivity, meaning the Empyrean doesn't need thaat much current even though it has low impedance. 

Other low impedance headphones could struggle more if the sensitivity is lower


----------



## hypnos1

I can confirm the flawless matching with the Empyreans...and as I quoted a Meze guy many moons ago : "A match (with Euforia) made in Heaven"......CJ


----------



## Yoram Diamand (Aug 25, 2021)

hypnos1 said:


> I can confirm the flawless matching with the Empyreans...and as I quoted a Meze guy many moons ago : "A match (with Euforia) made in Heaven"......CJ


Hi, I am in that heaven. I live exclusively with the Empyrean. I do say the stock cable should be silver. (Norne/ Lavricables or something) And still it is now quite common to say the Empyrean is not a technical masterpiece. It is considered comfortable. I have no idea if I would like the Hifiman HE1000SE more on the Euforia. It drives it well too I heard. But I would not give thousands of euros to crappy materials. I enjoy my music to the best of my cash/ ears abilities.


----------



## connieflyer

:My Oppo PM-1 are 30 ohm and have no problem driving them.


----------



## Quince (Aug 25, 2021)

Campfire Cascades (38 ohms/100 db) are unusable on my AE. Final D8000 pros (60 ohms/98 db)  are great, even better than ZMFs Verité closed (300 ohms/99 db).


----------



## hypnos1

Ichos said:


> The Elise no but the Euforia yes.
> It has good current delivery so it is suitable for easy to drive lowish Z headphones. (50-100Ω).
> I use it with the Empyrean and Focal Clear Mg/OG with great results.





ThanatosVI said:


> The Euforia AE is said to be an excellent pairing for the Meze Empyrean,  despite its 32 Ohm impedance.
> 
> This could be due to the insane sensitivity, meaning the Empyrean doesn't need thaat much current even though it has low impedance.
> 
> Other low impedance headphones could struggle more if the sensitivity is lower





Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I am in that heaven. I live exclusively with the Empyrean. I do say the stock cable should be silver. (Norne/ Lavricables or something) And still it is now quite common to say the Empyrean is not a technical masterpiece. It is considered comfortable. I have no idea if I would like the Hifiman HE1000SE more on the Euforia. It drives it well too I heard. But I would not give thousands of euros to crappy materials. I enjoy my music to the best of my cash/ ears abilities.



Hi YD. And yes, the Empyreans do need (good quality, preferably mono crystal OCC) silver to really shine. It gives that extra sparkle to accompany the Mezes' 'mellow' sound. But then, this latter quality could well be a life saver if the rest of the system is overly bright lol!  DAC quality will (as usual) also impact their performance of course...


----------



## LoryWiv

Ichos said:


> The Elise no but the Euforia yes.
> It has good current delivery so it is suitable for easy to drive lowish Z headphones. (50-100Ω).
> I use it with the Empyrean and Focal Clear Mg/OG with great results.


Thank you @Ichos. Elise and Euforia have very similar specs so that is quite encouraging!!!


----------



## jonathan c

hypnos1 said:


> Hi YD. And yes, the Empyreans do need (good quality, preferably mono crystal OCC) silver to really shine. It gives that extra sparkle to accompany the Mezes' 'mellow' sound. But then, this latter quality could well be a life saver if the rest of the system is overly bright lol!  DAC quality will (as usual) also impact their performance of course...


Agreed! With the Empyrean, the best results for me came about when using Arctic Cables Palladium Series (predecessor to Opera Series): transients ‘seemed’ to be accelerated and the high frequency response ‘seemed’ to be extended (not elevated).


----------



## Arcayne

So after having gone back and forth between a 6sn7/6080 combo and quad KT88 for the last couple of months, today I finally tried KT88 powers with 6sn7 drivers. Since I wasn't able to get my Empyrean to really work with the quad KT88s due to the loss of gain, I didn't expect a whole lot. But my god was I not expecting this result.... I never realized that the 6sn7s are the tubes that increase the gain the most (rather than the 6080s). So with the 6sn7/KT88 combo, I'm actually even getting quite a bit more gain than with the 6ns7/6080 combo. 

And my god, this is almost certainly the best tube config I've heard with my Empyreans so far. In one word, that best describes this pairing as I'm hearing it; *Thunderous*. This makes Empy slam harder than even my Jot 2 does. This certainly wasn't the case with the 6080 powers, they made for a much more nuanced and relaxed sound which I absolutely love in its own way. The KT88s sure don't have the level of nuance, but in return brings in the fireworks. And it sounds _clean_. It slams without the fuzz, transients are pleasantly incisive without any grain or edge. Aggression without violence. While I'll surely continue to reach for the 6080s when the mood calls for it, the 6sn7/KT88 combo might be my new favorite.


----------



## Galapac

Arcayne said:


> So after having gone back and forth between a 6sn7/6080 combo and quad KT88 for the last couple of months, today I finally tried KT88 powers with 6sn7 drivers. Since I wasn't able to get my Empyrean to really work with the quad KT88s due to the loss of gain, I didn't expect a whole lot. But my god was I not expecting this result.... I never realized that the 6sn7s are the tubes that increase the gain the most (rather than the 6080s). So with the 6sn7/KT88 combo, I'm actually even getting quite a bit more gain than with the 6ns7/6080 combo.
> 
> And my god, this is almost certainly the best tube config I've heard with my Empyreans so far. In one word, that best describes this pairing as I'm hearing it; *Thunderous*. This makes Empy slam harder than even my Jot 2 does. This certainly wasn't the case with the 6080 powers, they made for a much more nuanced and relaxed sound which I absolutely love in its own way. The KT88s sure don't have the level of nuance, but in return brings in the fireworks. And it sounds _clean_. It slams without the fuzz, transients are pleasantly incisive without any grain or edge. Aggression without violence. While I'll surely continue to reach for the 6080s when the mood calls for it, the 6sn7/KT88 combo might be my new favorite.


I tend to agree with you. I am having luck with KT88s as power and CBS 6SN7s as drivers for the punch.


----------



## Ichos

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you @Ichos. Elise and Euforia have very similar specs so that is quite encouraging!!!


You are welcome.
I am not very sure about the Elise.
Specs might seem the same but it may not be able to provide sufficient current.
Lukasz definitely recommended the Euforia for the Empyrean, I don't know about the Clear.


----------



## connieflyer

Have tried a few 6sn7 tubes with the KT88's, liked the KR 231's best so far, until this morning.  Tried the stock PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” 6SN7 with the GL KT88's and I think these cover it all.  A very little less bass, not much at all, but the mid's and highs are beautiful and plentiful.  Still have to remember to turn volume down, much more gain the the all KT tubes.  My Sennheiser 800 have never sounded better.


----------



## Galapac

connieflyer said:


> Have tried a few 6sn7 tubes with the KT88's, liked the KR 231's best so far, until this morning.  Tried the stock PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold” 6SN7 with the GL KT88's and I think these cover it all.  A very little less bass, not much at all, but the mid's and highs are beautiful and plentiful.  Still have to remember to turn volume down, much more gain the the all KT tubes.  My Sennheiser 800 have never sounded better.


YES! When using my stock CV-181 or my other PsVane Clear CV-181 I get the same impression so what I do is if I listen to classic, soft rock, jazz that I will use those tubes.
When I want more deep end and slam, I use my 6SN7 and equivalents.


----------



## dubharmonic

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I am in that heaven. I live exclusively with the Empyrean. I do say the stock cable should be silver. (Norne/ Lavricables or something) And still it is now quite common to say the Empyrean is not a technical masterpiece. It is considered comfortable. I have no idea if I would like the Hifiman HE1000SE more on the Euforia. It drives it well too I heard. But I would not give thousands of euros to crappy materials. I enjoy my music to the best of my cash/ ears abilities.


Curious, which amps are you comparing?

Just wanted to share my experiences with the Euphoria and sensitive low impedance planars.







When using the HE1000se paired with the Euphoria, bass is looser, and there’s less grip on the drivers when compared to the other 2 amps I’ve been using. There’s plenty of volume, and some of the tube magic gets through, but an amp with a lower output impedance gives far better results to my ears.


----------



## connieflyer

Looks like your shelf is a little small for the two amps on top.  I would like to offer a solution,  move the DNA to the second shelf and send me the MC!   Just missed buying one of these a short time ago, Did not see the ad in time.  Shame, I really like it. Sooooo, if you need more room, keep me in mind if you decide to send it to me or sell it! Looks good.


----------



## smeksime

Apologies if it's been answered in this thread already, but is it worth upgrading from the latest Euforia to AE? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Henrim

smeksime said:


> Apologies if it's been answered in this thread already, but is it worth upgrading from the latest Euforia to AE? Thanks in advance.


Never tried the AE but people were talking about the differences a few pages back.

This should point you in the right direction

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-16480039


----------



## Henrim

I recently bought the non AE version, the retailer offered a discounted AE but honestly I just prefer the matte black, and more than I think I’d prefer the sound of the AE - especially given the price difference. Each to their own though, and maybe if I heard one I’d think differently!


----------



## connieflyer

When I had both amps side by side for a month, I grew to like the new finish much better.  Does not show the dust nearly as much, and looked better after wiping.  Plus, after a month I actually liked the new one better.  Most friends that saw the two amps together liked the new finish better as well. It is all about personal choice.  Enjoy


----------



## fr3akX

does anyone have experience with 6N8S MELZ tubes for Euforia?


----------



## Renexx (Sep 3, 2021)

If you refer to Melz metal base they are really nice tubes. Neutral sound with big soundstage.  They are a little bit better than VT-231 tubes. If you have limited budget for tubes you should buy a pair of melz and skip expensive holy grail tubes 6sn7 tubes. It doesn't need to have 1578 stamp, it doesn't affect the sound at all. Also the internal construction doesn't affect the sound much also.  In the picture I have 1578 stamped Melz tubes from 1982 and they sound pretty much the same  like my 1954s Melz with different internal construction.
Don't buy cheap  black base foton 6N8S tubes.


----------



## connieflyer

RENEXX interesting story.  What dealer do you use, I have twice purchased tubes from russian suppliers, and  three of the four tubes ended up dying within months.  Have read a lot of reviews about russian tubes and my experience is typical. Noisy tube, open cathodes and shorted plates. And what was the price, as the prices I just looked at are above $150 per tube from suppliers I am familiar with


----------



## Renexx (Sep 3, 2021)

left pair i purchased here https://www.ebay.de/itm/254779019594 250$

right pair with 1578 stamp i purchased from this guy  https://www.ebay.de/itm/224561200708?hash=item3448e3fe44:g:MHUAAOSwg1lhDCZh 220$

He told me 1578 is just a stamp differentiating tubes between military usage or special equipment at nuclear stations and space industry. It doesnt affect the sound and construction.


----------



## fr3akX

@Renexx, I bought some time ago https://www.ebay.com/itm/133645722520, but I don't like them. With svetlanas they sound dry and dirty, and they seem visually far from NOS


----------



## Renexx

I guess you mean the stock Svetlana 6as7g tubes ? I never really use the stock Tubes.

I like them with tungsol 6as7g and GEC 6080. Both are warm output tubes and pair very well when listening with my Zmf Aeolus.

They sound clearly superior than Kenrad VT-231 to me.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> RENEXX interesting story.  What dealer do you use, I have twice purchased tubes from russian suppliers, and  three of the four tubes ended up dying within months.  Have read a lot of reviews about russian tubes and my experience is typical. Noisy tube, open cathodes and shorted plates. And what was the price, as the prices I just looked at are above $150 per tube from suppliers I am familiar with


There is a lot of discussion of Melz 6SN7 over on the 6SN7 thread, and a common recommendation is to re-solder the pins if they are noisy. I have a pair that a good man from that thread re-soldered and sent my way, and they are excellent tubes in Elise.


----------



## fr3akX

LoryWiv said:


> There is a lot of discussion of Melz 6SN7 over on the 6SN7 thread, and a common recommendation is to re-solder the pins if they are noisy. I have a pair that a good man from that thread re-soldered and sent my way, and they are excellent tubes in Elise.


thanks for the tip, I did the reflow for my Melz 6SN7, and gave them another chance, the improvement is substantial, I dont want to swap them back to stock psvane's. With mullards 6080 first impression is very good


----------



## UntilThen

LoryWiv said:


> I have a pair that a good man from that thread *re-soldered* and sent my way, and they are excellent tubes in Elise.



Can you explain how that's done. What's involved?


----------



## LoryWiv

I an definitely not the expert but there are talented DIY'ers on the 6SN7 thread, chief amongst them @Paladin79 a and your buddy @bcowen, See *this post* as a starting point Matt.


----------



## UntilThen

Bcowen? but but he's my caddy. I didn't think he would have other talents. Ok I'll check with him.


----------



## shafat777

Hi is anyone using xlr to rca cables to connect their balanced dac to their Elise/ euforia? Is it safe? Xlr is 4volts where as rca is 2, so is that safe to our beloved otl amp. I have a pontus 2 dac that I use with my Elise using rca cables and was wondering if using xlr to rca cable would give any benefit. 

Thank you.


----------



## UntilThen

shafat777 said:


> Hi is anyone using xlr to rca cables to connect their balanced dac to their Elise/ euforia? Is it safe? Xlr is 4volts where as rca is 2, so is that safe to our beloved otl amp. I have a pontus 2 dac that I use with my Elise using rca cables and was wondering if using xlr to rca cable would give any benefit.
> 
> Thank you.



Whilst I've not use the xlr to rca cable on Elise and Euforia, I've use it on Studio Six, Elekit TU 8200 from Yggdrasil. They are ok. With Odyssey and Oblivion, the builder make xlr input together with rca inputs for me even though they are SE amps.


----------



## Paladin79

LoryWiv said:


> I an definitely not the expert but there are talented DIY'ers on the 6SN7 thread, chief amongst them @Paladin79 a and your buddy @bcowen, See *this post* as a starting point Matt.


DIY to me implies putting a kit together and I have done a little of that along with modifying said kits. I design and build my own amps, cabinets and all.😁


----------



## leftside

Hey guys, I know a lot of you have a bunch of fabulous tubes. I created a thread that some of you might be interested in:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...6l6-el51-el39-4654-4699-kt63-kt61-etc.959519/


----------



## fr3akX

UntilThen said:


> Can you explain how that's done. What's involved?


I heated soldering station to 400c, then holded the tip of the soldering gun against the each tube leg about 10-15seconds, you can see when the tip of the leg melts, but keep tube upright


----------



## LoryWiv

Paladin79 said:


> DIY to me implies putting a kit together and I have done a little of that along with modifying said kits. I design and build my own amps, cabinets and all.😁


A typically modest answer for one so skilled...


----------



## Paladin79

fr3akX said:


> I heated soldering station to 400c, then holded the tip of the soldering gun against the each tube leg about 10-15seconds, you can see when the tip of the leg melts, but keep tube upright


That is re-flowing existing solder. I have had plenty of tubes where the solder would not adhere to the wire inside the pins. I remove the old solder, re-flux the area and add new silver content solder.


----------



## Paladin79 (Sep 5, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> A typically modest answer for one so skilled...


You are too kind. A good place to start in DIY kits is the Bottlehead Crack.






I knew before I ever received the kit that mine would be different and allow more space for modification.






I kept the original power transformer, and maybe some solder lugs and less critical capacitors. The electronics is fairly easy for me so I got into cabinet building more and more.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

hypnos1 said:


> Hi YD. And yes, the Empyreans do need (good quality, preferably mono crystal OCC) silver to really shine. It gives that extra sparkle to accompany the Mezes' 'mellow' sound. But then, this latter quality could well be a life saver if the rest of the system is overly bright lol!  DAC quality will (as usual) also impact their performance of course...


Ayre QB-9 Twenty dac is alright


----------



## Aquileolus

Today I found my Euforia has some noise on one channel when turning the volume to maximum and without anything playing... I just found it because I normally never exceed half the volume so its barely audible... Wondering is this normal and what could be some way to trouble shooting? Thanks in advance guys


----------



## ThanatosVI

Aquileolus said:


> Today I found my Euforia has some noise on one channel when turning the volume to maximum and without anything playing... I just found it because I normally never exceed half the volume so its barely audible... Wondering is this normal and what could be some way to trouble shooting? Thanks in advance guys


Try switching left and right tubes, if the noise follows to the other channel it's the tubes


----------



## Aquileolus

ThanatosVI said:


> Try switching left and right tubes, if the noise follows to the other channel it's the tubes


Just tried, the noise remains in the same channel, so I think it's not the tubes, also I tried to replace all 4 tubes and the noise is still there...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Aquileolus said:


> Just tried, the noise remains in the same channel, so I think it's not the tubes, also I tried to replace all 4 tubes and the noise is still there...


This seems to be not tube related then and you should contact Feliks for troubleshooting instructions


----------



## Aquileolus

ThanatosVI said:


> This seems to be not tube related then and you should contact Feliks for troubleshooting instructions


Thank you, actually after further testing, the noise exist in both channel... I tried to connect Euforia directly to a wall outlet with Pangea Audio power cord ($50), without connecting to any source, plug in the headphone (Verite Closed) then turn the volume to maximum, the noise are still there for both channel, does this indicate I might need a better power cord? BTW, if I'm using Arya which much less sensitive than VC, I can't hear any noise.


----------



## Henrim

As an aside, how do you like the Arya with the Euforia? Where is the volume pot at comfortable listening levels? Is it particularly synergistic?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you, actually after further testing, the noise exist in both channel... I tried to connect Euforia directly to a wall outlet with Pangea Audio power cord ($50), without connecting to any source, plug in the headphone (Verite Closed) then turn the volume to maximum, the noise are still there for both channel, does this indicate I might need a better power cord? BTW, if I'm using Arya which much less sensitive than VC, I can't hear any noise.


Did you also try that when a source is connected but no music is playing?
For some amps that makes a difference when no source is connected, but can't talk for the Euforia specifically here


----------



## Aquileolus

ThanatosVI said:


> Did you also try that when a source is connected but no music is playing?
> For some amps that makes a difference when no source is connected, but can't talk for the Euforia specifically here


Yeah I did, it has same noise when I connect the dac without anything playing or not connect source


----------



## LoryWiv

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you, actually after further testing, the noise exist in both channel... I tried to connect Euforia directly to a wall outlet with Pangea Audio power cord ($50), without connecting to any source, plug in the headphone (Verite Closed) then turn the volume to maximum, the noise are still there for both channel, does this indicate I might need a better power cord? BTW, if I'm using Arya which much less sensitive than VC, I can't hear any noise.


You may try cleaning the Euforia tube sockets, eg with Deoxit applied gently on a pipe cleaner. Removed extraneous noise for me.


----------



## Aquileolus

LoryWiv said:


> You may try cleaning the Euforia tube sockets, eg with Deoxit applied gently on a pipe cleaner. Removed extraneous noise for me.


Thank you for the suggestion, I applied Deoxit on the pins of my tubes, will try pipe cleaner as well


----------



## LoryWiv

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I applied Deoxit on the pins of my tubes, will try pipe cleaner as well


Yes, I clean tubes when I first receive them and once every few months try to remember to do same to the amp's tube sockets. Let all dry for a few hours before re-inserting tubes. Hope it helps!


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Yes, I clean tubes when I first receive them and once every few months try to remember to do same to the amp's tube sockets. Let all dry for a few hours before re-inserting tubes. Hope it helps!


I know what you mean.
I have the same thing at the moment.
But I suspect it's because of these socketsavers I bought on Aliexpress.
They really suck.NEVER AGAIN.
The tube really wobbles on it and sometimes the right channel hisses until I give the tube a little push again, then it disappears again.

Furthermore, I also have a slight buzzing when the volume control is turned without playing music when it is in the middle.

I have ordered new socketsavers this time from Canada.
If you have any installed, take them out.

I had put one in on the left side and when I took it out and put the tube in, everything was quiet again.

As a rule, the Euforia is otherwise quiet.
I don't think it's because of him, as long as the tubes are OK.

There can also be a ground loop coming from the Dac when it is connected via Rca.
If you have the opportunity to try another one, I would try it to rule out other causes.
As well as a mains cable, even if it is only standard, it is sufficient for testing.
Sockets tend to oxidise from time to time, and this can also sneak in from there.
Especially at the contacts, mine had been painted over with wall paint.
It took me a while to figure it out.
Small cause big effect.
Outdated socket strips can also cause this.

I would really only send it in when everything has been ruled out.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> I know what you mean.
> I have the same thing at the moment.
> But I suspect it's because of these socketsavers I bought on Aliexpress.
> They really suck.NEVER AGAIN.
> ...


Thanks @Deleeh. Who did you order from in Canada? Would be good to know. 

Keep in mind our head-fi friend @Deyan, who makes reliable, high quality socket savers and adapters as well.


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks @Deleeh. Who did you order from in Canada? Would be good to know.
> 
> Keep in mind our head-fi friend @Deyan, who makes reliable, high quality socket savers and adapters as well.


Yes I will, if the ones from Canada are nothing, I will ask him if he could make me some with a recess so that the tube is then really on the contacts and holds through the recess. Then the problem should be solved.
Strangely enough, I have also installed these socketsavers in the 6080 and they sit really firmly in there without wobbling.
I only have this problem with the 6SN7 Linlai tubes with the saver.

I ordered the new socketsavers here:
Hopefully the contacts inside are a bit tighter then they wouldn't wobble.

https://www.partsconnexion.com/SOCKET-74489.html

The sockets from Euforia are really good because they are spring-loaded, and I have seen that they adapt to the contact pins of the tubes.


----------



## flea22

Hey guys

Wanting to do some rolling and found some kt66 tubes, can I use these as power tubes? If so where do I get adapters?


----------



## Galapac

flea22 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Wanting to do some rolling and found some kt66 tubes, can I use these as power tubes? If so where do I get adapters?


Check this post, has all the info.

Post in thread 'Feliks-Audio EUFORIA - A Wolf in "Sheep's" Clothing...'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-16492394


----------



## flea22

Thanks. Might be a hard question for some to answer but would changing 5998 tubes to kt66 tubes result in a loss of drive power?


----------



## Galapac

I don’t know about drive power, you will lose a bit of gain, but not much. I will use 6L6 tubes which are similar to KT66 and I just need to turn up the volume a bit more but the return to me is wider stage and detail.

Here is another favorite of mine in the Euforia, the CV4079, like a mini GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 11, 2021)

below


----------



## Yoram Diamand

connieflyer said:


> There are a lot of amps that run KT 88 as native tubes,  check here for instance https://www.amazon.com/s?k=KT88+amp&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 .  They even have the KT88 in blue glass


Sophia Electric Coke-bottle KT88-ST Tubes (long life version)


----------



## Quince

Hi

Any recommendation for an European store to get a matched 6N13S set?

thanks!


----------



## ThanatosVI

https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/6as7ga/6h13c/6n13s-svetlana/russland-nos

And

https://btb-elektronik.de/en/product/1273/6as7gsed-svetlana6h13c-6n13s-ecc230--6080-double-triode/

Those are the two german sources I trust for All my tube needs.
Never ordered 6N13S before though.


----------



## Quince

ThanatosVI said:


> https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/6as7ga/6h13c/6n13s-svetlana/russland-nos
> 
> And
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot!


----------



## Henrim

Has anyone with a technical understanding in tube amps made a write-up about how the euforia works? With reference to a photo of the insides.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
My socketsavers from Canada have arrived.
(I had linked them because someone had asked for them the other day).
They are definitely better than the ones I bought on Aliexpress (I posted a picture somewhere a few pages back).

Why are they better?
Well simply put the tubes don't wobble anymore on the socket saver from Aliexpress.
And above all they don't cause any noise, on the right channel I sometimes had to play the tube to make the noise disappear.
The ones from Canada have a very good contact pressure and nothing wobbles anymore.
Apart from that, they also absorb the heat better, I have the impression.

They are worth the money, unlike the ones from Aliexpress where I spent almost a small fortune for 5 pieces, it was about 70€ with shipping and customs.

The one version I bought back then that was supposed to be made of gold was also the most expensive at $12.50 a piece.
They are not made of gold, there is only a very thin brass plate around the ceramic base.

And the ones from Canada are also cheaper.
They are only available in black and in the end fit better with the Euforia.
What is possible is that I had to file down the tips of mine a bit.
It takes 5-10 minutes, and you have to clean them before you use them.

Cheers


----------



## connieflyer (Sep 23, 2021)

In a conversation with one of the members here, we were discussing the use of TS 7581A tubes, I had used these quite a bit in the Elise, but as with all tube rolling, I soon tried different tubes and combinations. So when the subject came up again recently, I dug out the TS 7581A tubes and tried them with the ^V^G Bendix "Sylvania" as powers. After a few hours of warm up, put the phones on and was very impressed with the sound.  Great sound stage, smooth across the audio spectrum, just slightly on the warm side but very pleasant.  Going to leave these in for a week or two before going back to the six pack of GU50s. Very strong presentation, this is one of the best.  Better than the 6V6GT-6V6G combo.


----------



## Galapac (Sep 23, 2021)

connieflyer said:


> In a conversation with one of the members here, we were discussing the use of TS 7581A tubes, I had used these quite a bit in the Elise, but as with all tube rolling, I soon tried different tubes and combinations. So when the subject came up again recently, I dug out the TS 7581A tubes and tried them with the ^V^G Bendix "Sylvania" as powers. After a few hours of warm up, put the phones on and was very impressed with the sound.  Great sound stage, smooth across the audio spectrum, just slightly on the warm side but very pleasant.  Going to leave these in for a week or two before going back to the six pack of GU50s. Very strong presentation, this is one of the best.  Better than the 6V6GT-6V6G combo.


Yeah I would assume the 7581A are stronger tubes long the lines of the 6L6GC types of tubes. More power. I was trying to get impressions from another member on another thread on 6V6 tubes but I think you have answered my question. I don't need another tube rabbit hole to go down, lol.

I am using KT88s as powers with 6L6GC up front and even though I lose a bit of power (the volume knob takes care of that) the presentation and sound stage really opens up without getting muddy. If I were to describe this combination it is on the bright side (these are not NOS tubes) so not for music where you want the bass slam but that is just a tube change for me.


----------



## Henrim (Sep 29, 2021)

It finally arrived!!




ohhh my goddd it sounds so good! The Utopia have never sounded this good.

Initial impressions are more bass and bass texture. Wider sound stage and far better depth imaging and layering. Way better timbre too. Everything just sounds a lot more balanced and coherent, hard to put that into words. Poor recordings have drastically improved which is nice, that’s where I’m hearing the biggest differences tbh

Very happy so far! 

edit: by poorer recordings I mean ones that are pretty good, but not pristine.


----------



## Ichos

Great little space.
Enjoy and God help you with tube rolling 🙂


----------



## incredulousity

And if god doesn’t, there are many evil people here who will!


----------



## Deceneu808

Just when you think you've found the perfect combo BAM you buy another pair and it never ends


----------



## OctavianH

And the big problem is that 95% of your tubes will never be used constantly, just tried. But you can sell them afterwards.


----------



## Ichos

OctavianH said:


> And the big problem is that 95% of your tubes will never be used constantly, just tried. But you can sell them afterwards.


Not even burned properly!!


----------



## OctavianH

Ichos said:


> Not even burned properly!!


True! One does not have enough patience to try enough a combo and usually changes it before the final assessment. LOL


----------



## Henrim

So far 60% of my tubes haven’t even been tried!


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> So far 60% of my tubes haven’t even been tried!


I am happy with the Tube who i have find, 6Sn7 Linlai and 6080 Mullard or Sylvania.

What for beatiful Woodplate is it do you have?It looks good on it.
Have fun with the Euforia ✌️👍


----------



## JTbbb

Wolstead chopping board. I’ve just googled the name that is on the side 😀


----------



## Galapac (Sep 29, 2021)

Butcher Block Acoustics makes fine boards as well.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Butcher+Block+Acoustics&ref=bl_dp_s_mw_0


----------



## Quince

Rocking this over some Isoacoustics orea footers.


----------



## Henrim (Sep 29, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> I am happy with the Tube who i have find, 6Sn7 Linlai and 6080 Mullard or Sylvania.
> 
> What for beatiful Woodplate is it do you have?It looks good on it.
> Have fun with the Euforia ✌️👍



Yeah I'm keen to get a pair of the LinLai, I just hope mine fit without having to put 1 on a space saver!

And yeah that's the one (butchers block), went for a cheap ass 'isolation platform' because it look awesome. I might buy a quad of isoacoustic oera for even better fashion-fi, but for now I went for no-name knock offs which I just tucked away out of sight.

@Quince can I see how yours looks with the oreas?


----------



## Quince

Henrim said:


> Yeah I'm keen to get a pair of the LinLai, I just hope mine fit without having to put 1 on a space saver!
> 
> And yeah that's the one (butchers block), went for a cheap ass 'isolation platform' because it look awesome. I might buy a quad of isoacoustic oera for even better fashion-fi, but for now I went for no-name knock offs which I just tucked away out of sight.
> 
> @Quince can I see how yours looks with the oreas?


There you go


----------



## Henrim (Sep 30, 2021)

Quince said:


> There you go


Damn yeah those pucks look great.

I'm trouble shooting already 
I got this random squeeking and popping noise which happens over and over every half second on the right ear. I discovered it was one of the stock 6N13S power tubes (switched them over and squeeking went to the left ear).

What would everyone recommend? From reading this thread I saw I could try de-oxit, or sanding the pins, or resoldering them.

Edit:
Bought and tried deoxit, it's still there, but it seems like it's changing in character over time. The seller mentioned he's familiar with that sound and thinks they might just need to burn in a while more.


----------



## Henrim

Went for the epic stack!

I'll try my hand at the KT88 quad if this buzzing doesn't stop...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Went for the epic stack!
> 
> I'll try my hand at the KT88 quad if this buzzing doesn't stop...


Can't help but wonder, is it possible to get a Black Yggdrassil?


----------



## Henrim

looks like it!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> looks like it!


Damn nice in black


----------



## Ichos

I am finally having a couple of quality hours away from reviewing, just listening to my favorite music.

ZEN Stream->Denafrips Gaia->Denafrips Venus II->Feliks Euforia->Meze Elite

My vocabulary is too limited to describe the experience....


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Does anyone happen to have experience with the combination 
Denafrips Ares 2 and Feliks Euforia?

Possibly also with the Pontus?


----------



## Ichos (Oct 1, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Does anyone happen to have experience with the combination
> Denafrips Ares 2 and Feliks Euforia?
> 
> Possibly also with the Pontus?


Me!


----------



## Deleeh

How good is the cambination with the Euforia in Sound?


----------



## Ichos

Deleeh said:


> How good is the cambination with the Euforia in Sound?


Very organic and analogue timbre.
Harmonic wealth  and natural texture.
Full bodied and engaging sound.
Of course if you can afford it goes like Ares II<Pontus II<Venus II with the Pontus being the sweet spot.


----------



## Deleeh

Ichos said:


> Very organic and analogue timbre.
> Harmonic wealth  and natural texture.
> Full bodied and engaging sound.
> Of course if you can afford it goes like Ares II<Pontus II<Venus II with the Pontus being the sweet spot.


Thank you for your impressions.👍
If it is to be a new Dac, then this one.
I've heard so many good things about it.

The only thing that bothers me is that you have to leave it plugged in so that it supposedly shows its best "development".

I always disconnect the devices when I don't use them for a while.
It would be a pity if the Ares always needs a bit of time to show its full potential when it is not connected to the power supply for a longer period of time.

I still think this theory is a bit of a rumour.
When it is new, I would have no problems with it and it is normal.


----------



## Ichos

It is not necessary to leave it ON all the time but you definitely need to have it plugged in to the mains.

Also consider that it needs at least 300 hours of playing time to really settle down and show it's full potential.


----------



## Henrim

I had the schiit Yggdrasil which has a reputation for taking a long time to warm up and sound its best, some people even say it takes a couple of weeks. I can hear it's a bit edgy in the first few hours, but leaving it on overnight gets it as good as my ears can make out. So 12-18 hours or something.


----------



## Deleeh

Ichos said:


> It is not necessary to leave it ON all the time but you definitely need to have it plugged in to the mains.
> 
> Also consider that it needs at least 300 hours of playing time to really settle down and show it's full potential.


Good to know Thank you,👍

I would follow the tips that have been circulating on the net regarding running in.
Keep it connected to the mains for at least 10 days and let it play as often as possible.

Then when I know I'll be out of the house for the next few days, I'd take it off the power.
I don't see any need to do that after I've run it in.

It's always appealing.
The Pontus also looks good, even if it costs twice as much.
Since I still have the Singxer Su 2, it is questionable whether it makes sense to achieve similar results with the Ares.😇


----------



## Galapac (Oct 3, 2021)

Enjoying this tube combination this evening…

GEC CV4079
National Union 6SN7GT blacks


----------



## Henrim

The buzzing with the stock power tube finally stopped! it started stopping around 85 hours burn in and was completely gone after 100. 

In the meantime I tried the quad KT88, everything worked as expected but there's a significant hum in the background. The hum doesn't change with the volume and I saw someone else report a hum with quad KT88 and Utopia. I'm wondering if there's a background hum for all headphones but it's relatively louder for more sensitive headphones since the volume knob has to be down.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Utopias are 104dB efficient and 80 ohm.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi, I have the Meze Empyrean on Euforia, and some complain, it has no detail compared to normal high end headphones. What to think of the Arya Stealth? It could be driven by a mobile phone if I can believe the review. Perhaps a cheaper way to add some detail as a second opinion to the Meze?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi, I have the Meze Empyrean on Euforia, and some complain, it has no detail compared to normal high end headphones. What to think of the Arya Stealth? It could be driven by a mobile phone if I can believe the review. Perhaps a cheaper way to add some detail as a second opinion to the Meze?


Arya won't help here. 
Empyrean isn't as detailed as Susvara or Solitaire P, but easily matches the Arya.

Your best option for an "affordable" detail Monster is the T+A Solitaire P-SE at 2800€


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> Arya won't help here.
> Empyrean isn't as detailed as Susvara or Solitaire P, but easily matches the Arya.
> 
> Your best option for an "affordable" detail Monster is the T+A Solitaire P-SE at 2800€


I like the Sennhieser HD800S with the Euforia. Seems to be overlooked these days as they are getting a little long in the tooth.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Audeze lcd2 C offers excellent neutral resolution on the stock tubes if you're into that and want to forgo the anaemic bass range.
Otherwise, you can still play with the 6sn7 for more bite in the bass range.
The Linlai helped a lot with the 6080 Mullards or Sylvania.
With the pairings it gets audibly better with the Lcd 2 C.


----------



## flea22

I'm new at adapter's and tube rolling and before I do something stupid would like to ask if it's all good to roll some kt66 tubes with these adapter's I got of eBay.

Got some gec kt66 I want a try.


----------



## Henrim (Oct 7, 2021)

Awesome flea! There are many other far more seasoned head-fiers who could answer your question much better that I could, but I recently just got my KTs going so I can share my experience.

@hypnos1 has been very helpful (Thank you!)

So basically I checked the pins were mapped correctly myself using a multimeter, measuring the resitance between each male/female pin combination and matched that to what the mapping should be. Here's the link for the pin mapping which both hypnos1 and Deyan confirmed.

And of course you have to ensure the heater current loading doesn't exceed 6.5A. Here's another link for more information on that.


----------



## barontan2418

flea22 said:


> I'm new at adapter's and tube rolling and before I do something stupid would like to ask if it's all good to roll some kt66 tubes with these adapter's I got of eBay.
> 
> Got some gec kt66 I want a try.


Yes those adapters are fine for KT66,KT88 and several other tubes mentioned earlier in the the thread. I'm still using several and have been for ages. Hope this helps.


----------



## OctavianH

For people intersted, I sell some of my old tube collection (works for Elise, Euforia) here.


----------



## Henrim

Luck87 answered my question in an earlier post. KT88 in Euforia hum with Utopias specifically 



Henrim said:


> The buzzing with the stock power tube finally stopped! it started stopping around 85 hours burn in and was completely gone after 100.
> 
> In the meantime I tried the quad KT88, everything worked as expected but there's a significant hum in the background. The hum doesn't change with the volume and I saw someone else report a hum with quad KT88 and Utopia. I'm wondering if there's a background hum for all headphones but it's relatively louder for more sensitive headphones since the volume knob has to be down.
> 
> ...





Lucky87 said:


> For my unit stock no hum with the 4 x Quad KT 88 GL no hum with Empyreans, ZR1, HD800 but with the Utopia very slight hum but when music is playing I can’t hear it. Same issue with a KT 77 with KT 88. It seems strange this is only happening with the Focal and the QUAD 88 setup sounds amazing with the Utopias my favorite out of all my cans. Debating on the buying the Quad Shuguang WEKT88 plus tubes which I hear sound  great or interesting in the PSvanes KT88 Quad setup. Or just wait for the new 300B to come out in 2021 from Feliks Audio.


----------



## Renexx

Hum is mostly introduced due to using adapters. 

On all of my 6sn7 and 6as7g tubes the Euphoria is dead quiet.

Maybe using a lower impedance headphone increases the Background noise aswell ? I only have 300ohm ZMFs.


----------



## Henrim

I can hear a faint hum with the stock tubes. Not enough to notice at first, but if I unplug my headphones while wearing them (and no music playing), I can hear the hum disappear.


----------



## Arcayne

Henrim said:


> I can hear a faint hum with the stock tubes. Not enough to notice at first, but if I unplug my headphones while wearing them (and no music playing), I can hear the hum disappear.


I also hear some hum when running quad KT88, but when I use 6sn7 drivers with KT88 powers it's silent.


----------



## Quince

The hum on mine (AE) varies depending on headphones and power dirt/EMI. The amp is much silent in an empty city in summer.

It goes from no hum to an almost inaudible with D800p, practically inaudible to bearable with the VC and from barely bearable to unusable with campfire cascades. 

I live in an old apartment (1930) with crappy electricity and in a busy city. Even with a lot of fancy cables, power conditioners and such I haven’t been able to fix the hum fully, has gotten much better though.


----------



## LoryWiv

Renexx said:


> *Hum is mostly introduced due to using adapters.*
> 
> On all of my 6sn7 and 6as7g tubes the Euphoria is dead quiet.
> 
> Maybe using a lower impedance headphone increases the Background noise aswell ? I only have 300ohm ZMFs.


Interesting observation. I do find that to be true using 6v6 as powers but not with 6L6 or Kt88. In those latter cases adapters are in place and no hum whatsoever.


----------



## Henrim

Renexx said:


> *Hum is mostly introduced due to using adapters.*
> 
> On all of my 6sn7 and 6as7g tubes the Euphoria is dead quiet.
> 
> Maybe using a lower impedance headphone increases the Background noise aswell ? I only have 300ohm ZMFs.


Interesting LoryWiv. Maybe we can test the theory, anyone getting more hum with socket savers? unless there's something going on with the pins being mapped...



Arcayne said:


> I also hear some hum when running quad KT88, but when I use 6sn7 drivers with KT88 powers it's silent.


Agreed, although for me using KT88 as powers and 6sn7 as drivers gives me less hum than quad KT88, as opposed to no hum.



Quince said:


> The hum on mine (AE) varies depending on headphones and power dirt/EMI. The amp is much silent in an empty city in summer.
> 
> It goes from no hum to an almost inaudible with D800p, practically inaudible to bearable with the VC and from barely bearable to unusable with campfire cascades.
> 
> I live in an old apartment (1930) with crappy electricity and in a busy city. Even with a lot of fancy cables, power conditioners and such I haven’t been able to fix the hum fully, has gotten much better though.


That's a sad outcome... I've probably just got filthy power exacerbating the issue. I gave my hifi its own multibox which reduced it a bit.


----------



## Galapac

Enjoying some Metallica today on the Euforia with Tung-sol 2399/5998s and Tungsram ECC82s.
Euforia is one of he most versatile OTLs with regard to tube rolling…stay thirsty my friends!

Lots of detail in those ECC82s…a 12AU7 equivalent. 
Not strong on the bottom end but the detail retrieval is outstanding.

Metallica …”And Justice For All” never had any bass anyway…🤣


----------



## OctavianH

Galapac said:


> Metallica …”And Justice For All” never had any bass anyway…🤣


But in universe there is equilibrium, so we have Iron Maiden where the bass is over all the others. LOL


----------



## Deleeh

If it were possible, wouldn't it have made more sense to keep the 6SN7 and move the 6AS7G to 12au7?
Should the voltage not exceed 7 amps or not?


----------



## Galapac (Oct 9, 2021)

According to various manufacturers the 12AU7 is the 9 pin noval equivalent of the 6SN7.

the 12AU7 apparently has a center-tapped filament, and its filament has two ratings, 12.6 volts at 0.15 amps, or *6.3 volts at 0.3 amps*. The 6SN7 rating is 6.3 volts at 0.6 amps.
So the 12AU7 is actually running with half the amperage than its 6SN7 equivalent.

5.6 amps total in this setup and well under the 7 amp limit. 🙂

EDIT: I must add the 12AU7 in the Euforia with adapter does introduce a bit of hum, very slight, but there all the same and I feel the 6SN7 is superior to the 12AU7 for this amp as it has more punch and deep end for my musical tastes, while being dead quiet when no music is playing.
The 12AU7 is probably more suited to vocal heavy arrangements and softer, more melodic genres if used in this amp.


----------



## Melting735

Grabbed my Euphoria from a dealer a few days ago. So happy about this purchase. Even my dt770 and hd600 sound premium on this amp. Gonna dig more on tube rolling after 50 hours break in


----------



## Renexx

That is a deep and expensive hole you will dig yourself into 🤠


----------



## LoryWiv

Renexx said:


> That is a deep and expensive hole you will dig yourself into 🤠


Yes, but fun and IMO worth it if you don't go too wild.


----------



## Henrim

dt770 and hd600 to Euforia is pretty wild! 

Nah I love it, I upgraded from $300 Audio Technicas to Utopia a couple years ago. Best purchase I ever made


----------



## Melting735

Renexx said:


> That is a deep and expensive hole you will dig yourself into 🤠





LoryWiv said:


> Yes, but fun and IMO worth it if you don't go too wild.


My pocket already hurt as I'm now hunting tubes on ebay, lol.


----------



## Melting735

Henrim said:


> dt770 and hd600 to Euforia is pretty wild!
> 
> Nah I love it, I upgraded from $300 Audio Technicas to Utopia a couple years ago. Best purchase I ever made


I'm now so impressed with saxophone on dt770. Soundstage and bass are no longer weakness for hd600.


----------



## Simple Man

Can I ask you owners why you would change the tubes? Is it just for fun, a 'cheaper' way to change gear?
I'm seious thinking of buying an Euforia Gold or the 20th anni.
I use a Violectric 280 now with most of the time a HD800s or an Audize XC
Did one of you compare these?
Thanks


----------



## Renexx

Changing tubes is a hell of fun and gives you the impression of listening to a new amp every day 😂💡

Your Sennheiser will synergize very well but it might not provide enough power for your audeze.

I recommend buying some nice NOS tubes instead of stock Tubes. Even the 
stock  Gold tubes are not really worth the money.


----------



## Simple Man

Thanks. So I better bring my XC when I go to the shop! 
Not enough power has to do with tubes or is there more?
I'm from a generation who had to listen to the Philips and Grundig tube radios when I was young. I never had any interest in tubes again but the last few months......
Now it's time to leech info.
Bye the way, I'm not happy with your first line.


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> Thanks. So I better bring my XC when I go to the shop!
> Not enough power has to do with tubes or is there more?
> I'm from a generation who had to listen to the Philips and Grundig tube radios when I was young. I never had any interest in tubes again but the last few months......
> Now it's time to leech info.
> Bye the way, I'm not happy with your first line.


If you follow Mr Renexx, I hope you have deep pockets 😀. But it is true what he says!


----------



## Renexx

The Euphoria is an OTL amp (power transformer less). That means your listening directly to the tubes without a transformer powering the headphone.

Planar useally have very low impedance and are very power hungry. 
That can result in a tilted frequency response or less bass presence.

To power them properly you might consider buying a tube hybrid amp. Tubes for input stage and Solid state as output stage to power your planar headphones  properly.

An OTL amp like the Euphoria is best  for dynamic headphones with high impedance.
You will love it for your Sennheiser. Also Zmf headphones sound wonderful with it.

I heard the Euphoria drives a Meze empyrian well also. Maybe you are lucky with your audeze XC.



JTbbb said:


> If you follow Mr Renexx, I hope you have deep pockets 😀. But it is true what he says!


Thank you Jeff.. the tube game got  overboard with me.


----------



## Simple Man

I’m very sensitive for looks. I love the spartan looking Feliks amps. 
I also keep the Violectric so feeding the Audeze won’t be a problem. 
Also the price is important, I’ve seen other amp but twice the price. 
I just read I need to buy tubes aswell so….😁


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> I’m very sensitive for looks. I love the spartan looking Feliks amps.
> I also keep the Violectric so feeding the Audeze won’t be a problem.
> Also the price is important, I’ve seen other amp but twice the price.
> I just read I need to buy tubes aswell so….😁


You don’t NEED to buy tubes! But you will have to have a stiff resolve not too 😀.


----------



## Melting735

Simple Man said:


> Thanks. So I better bring my XC when I go to the shop!
> Not enough power has to do with tubes or is there more?
> I'm from a generation who had to listen to the Philips and Grundig tube radios when I was young. I never had any interest in tubes again but the last few months......
> Now it's time to leech info.
> Bye the way, I'm not happy with your first line.


I don't have a xc, but euphoria  drove my lcd3f very well. I only dial it around 9oclock definitely not passing 10 if I remember right.


----------



## Renexx

Simple Man said:


> I’m very sensitive for looks. I love the spartan looking Feliks amps.
> Also the price is important, I’ve seen other amp but twice the price.
> I just read I need to buy tubes aswell so….😁


The Euphoria looks gorgeous especially as AE version and glowing tubes will be  the highlights on your desk.





You will pay much more money for the tubes than on the amp itself...once you start buying tubes you will always be curious how other tubes might sound. It's a never ending story.
Prices for tubes are rising every year.



JTbbb said:


> You don’t NEED to buy tubes! But you will have to have a stiff resolve not too 😀.



We are weak man 😨


----------



## Simple Man

@Renexx This is a beauty!! AE stands for Anniversary edition?


----------



## Renexx

Thank you, it's an upgraded Euphoria that comes in a glossy finish.


----------



## Simple Man

Do you know if it is worth the money to buy the Anniversary edition over the Gold?
Is it smarter to save the extra money and buy other, better,  tubes instead?


----------



## Renexx

The AE always comes with the stock Tubes.
I didn't use them myself because they sound quite boring compared to NOS tubes.

On normal Euphoria you can save 200€ by buying them without stock tubes.

I can't compare AE to normal Euphoria. I did read there is  a slight noticeable difference.

The AE sounds very natural like a lovely warm blanket wrapped around your music.
The only downsides are rare and expensive tubes.

I got my AE for a good price at the German reseller.


----------



## Simple Man

My dealer has them both in the shop. I'll try to hear differences big enough to justify the difference in price, €800,-.
My hearing is not as good as it was 10 years ago and I'm sure it won't get any better. HD files hardly sound better to me.


----------



## Renexx

I guess your Sennheiser HD800s has a good resolution and you can pick up small differences. 

The real fun starts when you receive your first NOS tubes in the mail 🎁💡

It's like robbing your bank account for little Christmas presents and everytime you will be excited like a little boy.


----------



## Deceneu808

I'm so tempted to buy the AE but the 300B is just around the corner


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> Can I ask you owners why you would change the tubes? Is it just for fun, a 'cheaper' way to change gear?
> I'm seious thinking of buying an Euforia Gold or the 20th anni.
> I use a Violectric 280 now with most of the time a HD800s or an Audize XC
> Did one of you compare these?
> Thanks


Hello,
I got the Lcd 2C to work on the Euforia.
But with a tube change it was then possible to get it to work.
With the Ps Vane tubes it sounded too bloodless in the bass range.

However, I would like to say one thing, I have the Aeon R/T which is 14 ohm and it is not good with the Euforia, the headphone amp distorts quite well on the headphones so I can't recommend it.
Unfortunately, the Euforia doesn't play down that far, and it wasn't intended to due to the design.

As the XC is only 20 ohm it will be a little better than with the Aeon R/T.But can't recommend it.
If you want a tube amp to drive both headphones then I would go for the Woo Audio wa 6, or a hybrid amp.
The Wa 6 can drive both high and low ohm headphones.

That would be my recommendation to you, if you do want the Euforia then better not buy the original tubes, and instead buy the 6SN7 Linlai with a couple of 6080 Mullard or Sylvania.
Because these offer more and it would also be better with the XC headphones.

Otherwise, as a hybrid amplifier, the Monoprice Liquid platinum would be quite good but quite expensive for a Eu import.
Where the money would probably be better invested in the Woo Audio.

To your question about rolling tubes, you simply have more control and a little more sound influence on your own needs.


----------



## Simple Man

Thanks for this reaction. A few points to considder. 
I didn’t think about a Woo yet but I will get some info etc of it. 
One thing, I want/need to listen to an amp before buying. 
This can also be a problem with different tubes. In that case I listen to other people with experience in it.


----------



## mordy

I do want to point out that there are many tubes that sound great that are not very expensive - also that what counts is the synergy between the two pairs of tubes.
I do not have experience with Linlai tubes but people seem to like them and some of their tubes are not that expensive. The Sylvania 6080 tubes are very nice sounding tubes and also not expensive at all. 
The reason why tube manufacturers usually do not offer old NOS tubes is that they need a large dependable supply and are therefore forced to turn to new production tubes or older tubes that are available in large quantities (which usually means Russian made tubes).


----------



## Deleeh (Oct 13, 2021)

Simple Man said:


> Thanks for this reaction. A few points to considder.
> I didn’t think about a Woo yet but I will get some info etc of it.
> One thing, I want/need to listen to an amp before buying.
> This can also be a problem with different tubes. In that case I listen to other people with experience in it.


Okay, so if you want to listen to an amplifier anyway, then I would definitely listen to the Euforia with both headphones where you have them and make up your own mind.
You still have the Violectric which works well with the Lcd XC.

But Woo Audio and perhaps others are unfortunately not available in independent shops and mostly only online.
You have to rely on the reviews and read between the lines what others write about them.
Otherwise, there is something else from Cayin.
The Denis Had 1 is not so bad either and maybe worthwhile.
https://www.moon-audio.com/dragon-inspire-iha-1-tube-headphone-amp.html

Regarding the tubes, the spirit is different and mostly subjective.
While others spend a lot of money, you may be satisfied with a cheap tube or vice versa.
We all share our personal impressions here, where you are free to decide whether to go for it or not.

Depending on the dealer is another tip, pay a little attention to what he is talking about.
Younger salesmen have a little less tendency to sell a tube amp and not too much experience as someone who is maybe in his late 30s, mid 40s and still knows it from his time.
Without sounding prejudiced, I have experienced it.

If you really want to buy a tube amp now, make it a bit dependent on the headphone collection you already own and compromise there.
Like the XC test if it's nothing then listen on the Violectric.
And of course what other headphones you plan to buy, a Zmf is definitely worth the Euforia as well as other dynamic headphones.

The Euforia is also worth the money, but not necessarily for planar headphones, that much I can say.
For dynamic headphones it is a very good amplifier, which strangely enough also drives a Fostex, Denon with 25 Ohm very well without problems.


----------



## Melting735

Deleeh said:


> which strangely enough also drives a Fostex, Denon with 25 Ohm very well without problems.


Good to know that. I may give Fostex another try.

Anyone tried Focal Stellia on Euphoria here?


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Okay, so if you want to listen to an amplifier anyway, then I would definitely listen to the Euforia with both headphones where you have them and make up your own mind.
> You still have the Violectric which works well with the Lcd XC.
> 
> But Woo Audio and perhaps others are unfortunately not available in independent shops and mostly only online.
> ...


I can add that my similar Feliks Elise OTL drives the 55 ohm Focal Clear MG very, very well.


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> I’m very sensitive for looks. I love the spartan looking Feliks amps.
> I also keep the Violectric so feeding the Audeze won’t be a problem.
> Also the price is important, I’ve seen other amp but twice the price.
> I just read I need to buy tubes aswell so….😁


For what it’s worth, here are my two suggestions.

1. If you are fairly laid back about your music and just want to go straight to a good tube amp, with what are considered top tubes by many, and taking into consideration you are sensitive to the looks. Then you are not going to go wrong with the Euforia AE, with a pair of Tungsol 5998’s as powers and any number of 6sn7’s up front from the likes of Raytheon, Kenrad and Sylvania etc. Well, you will be considered pretty much at the top table, sound quality wise, with many other good candidates, no more money to spend. Just sit back and enjoy the music with your Sennhieser HD800S headphones, which synergise well with the Euforia and will sound fabulous.

2. If you have time on your hands, and are fairly critical about the sound you want, you have funds to spend (let’s face it, all hobbies cost). Then get the AE with the standard complement of tubes, which are pretty good anyway, especially the drivers, and enjoy for a while. Then start looking at NOS tubes. For a start, reading everything there is available in this Forum, talking to people for advice, is rewarding in itself and very immersive. Then there is the search for the tubes you want to try, this is the rabbit hole that people talk about, it’s very addictive, once started it’s difficult to know when to stop. Before long you have quite a collection, and spent a lot of money.

I have to say that putting this together has made me look at myself rather critically, and I could of quite easily put myself into suggestion No1 above and been non the wiser, happily enjoying my music, albeit very good sound quality music. But no, I took suggestion No2, and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience, even though I have actually ended up at suggestion No1 😀.


----------



## mordy

JTbbb said:


> For what it’s worth, here are my two suggestions.
> 
> 1. If you are fairly laid back about your music and just want to go straight to a good tube amp, with what are considered top tubes by many, and taking into consideration you are sensitive to the looks. Then you are not going to go wrong with the Euforia AE, with a pair of Tungsol 5998’s as powers and any number of 6sn7’s up front from the likes of Raytheon, Kenrad and Sylvania etc. Well, you will be considered pretty much at the top table, sound quality wise, with many other good candidates, no more money to spend. Just sit back and enjoy the music with your Sennhieser HD800S headphones, which synergise well with the Euforia and will sound fabulous.
> 
> ...


Very true! Some people listen to their equipment, and some to the music and probably many go through both stages and stop when they find the right combination for their taste.
Until the tube rolling/upgrade bug hits again....


----------



## Simple Man

@JTbbb Thank you very much!
I considder myself in 1,5.
A few years ago I said to myself no more trying, gambling and wrong buying. 
It turned out in 5 headphones, a few DAPs, amps and dac's.
Realise I never get happy with the wrong, mostly cheapish gear. i'm spoiled a bit with a few components. 
This is the reason I think I need to go for the Euforia and not for the Elise. Just afraid for regrets.
Soon, maybe even tommorow I'll try a few tube amps in my favorite shop. The seller told me to leave my money at home, he knows me, and think a little longer.
I will.
maybe.
Music is what I want to hear. I hardly listen to equipment. As a big fan of good recordings I want good sounding gear. Love details, air and a good stage.
Spending money must be a serious step up or make a nice change otherwise I don't need it. There is more than enough here to realy enjoy music.


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> @JTbbb Thank you very much!
> I considder myself in 1,5.
> A few years ago I said to myself no more trying, gambling and wrong buying.
> It turned out in 5 headphones, a few DAPs, amps and dac's.
> ...


As I said, as good as their attitude is.
Align your tube amplifier a bit with the headphones where you say which ones should work well in any case.
Then it will be easier for you to make a choice.
You don't have to buy one if only one would work and the others wouldn't.
For the money you also get something where 3 or all headphones would work.

The Mcintosh mha 200 is not necessarily wrong in this respect.
It has a bit of a problem with the volume control which is a shame.
I don't know if it has been fixed or if it will stay like that.
But from what I've read, it also works well with planar headphones.
Which would also be an advantage not to have to drive two sets of headphones.

Of course it's better to leave the money at home for now,
take the headphones where you say they should go and test them.
And listen to what the dealer says and your gut feeling.
If you have any further questions, we are here for you.

Depending on the model you are offered, you should also look at the variety of tubes and their prices before buying.
That would also be an important purchase criterion.
Apart from 6SN7 tubes, the 6080 are very popular but still cheap and the 5998,7236 for the Euforia are quite expensive and hard to find.
The ones I have found are beyond my budget, which is a shame.


----------



## Simple Man

One thing is for sure, this is the best and most helpfull corner of the forum!!
Thank you all so much so far.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> Until*Then* the tube rolling/upgrade bug hits again....



Fix that for you...  Having gone through all the tube amps below, I'm finally happy now with the 3 which I'm keeping and they are in my signature. There's no more to upgrade now because I've arrived.. .  

Darkvoice 336se
Elise
Euforia
La Figaro 339i
Wa22
Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP
Glenn OTL amp
ALO Audio Studio Six
Schiit Mjolnir 2
Elekit TU-8200
Oblivion 
Destiny
Odyssey


----------



## Deleeh

UntilThen said:


> Fix that for you...  Having gone through all the tube amps below, I'm finally happy now with the 3 which I'm keeping and they are in my signature. There's no more to upgrade now because I've arrived.. .
> 
> Darkvoice 336se
> Elise
> ...


How good is the Elkit 8200?


----------



## mordy

UntilThen said:


> Fix that for you...  Having gone through all the tube amps below, I'm finally happy now with the 3 which I'm keeping and they are in my signature. There's no more to upgrade now because I've arrived.. .
> 
> Darkvoice 336se
> Elise
> ...


An all Swedish line-up?


----------



## UntilThen

Deleeh said:


> How good is the Elkit 8200?


Very good.... that's when I hear the goodness of EL34, KT88, KT77, KT66, EL12 spez, 807, 6550, etc. 

That sets me off on the path to get a custom KT88 SET amp built and that's how I end up with Odyssey. 

Elekit TU-8200 has the power to drive He6se V2 easily. Drives LCD4 perfectly. It also drives speakers loudly. Quite amazing for such a small amp. In fact, I'm left with Odyssey, Oblivion, Destiny, TU-8200 and Wa22 and didn't feel like getting rid of the last 2 even though I hardly use them.


----------



## UntilThen

mordy said:


> An all Swedish line-up?



No   Destiny 300b amp is Australian


----------



## Deleeh

UntilThen said:


> Very good.... that's when I hear the goodness of EL34, KT88, KT77, KT66, EL12 spez, 807, 6550, etc.
> 
> That sets me off on the path to get a custom KT88 SET amp built and that's how I end up with Odyssey.
> 
> Elekit TU-8200 has the power to drive He6se V2 easily. Drives LCD4 perfectly. It also drives speakers loudly. Quite amazing for such a small amp. In fact, I'm left with Odyssey, Oblivion, Destiny, TU-8200 and Wa22 and didn't feel like getting rid of the last 2 even though I hardly use them.


The Elekit looks damn good in a way even if you have to assemble it yourself.
At the moment I'm thinking of getting an Audio note Dac 2.1 kit.
But I don't know yet if I will do it myself or have it done.
If I had the time right now I would want both kits.
There's something special about putting something together yourself.

Thanks for the feedback, there wasn't much to find about the Elekit.


----------



## UntilThen

There's a thread on Head-Fi for Elekit TU-8200.

It would be discourteous of me to talk about other amps solely on Euforia thread. For the record, I did enjoy my time with Elise and Euforia. I believe if I still have Euforia now, it would have driven my He1000se very well. 

In all the tube amps I've been through, there isn't a single amp that I dislike. Maybe the DV 336se is quite apart from the others but they are all very good tube amps there. Different price point and usage, etc. Each and everyone of them have a place. I would have like to taste more tube amps such as the DNA Stratus, Eddie Current which unfortunately is no more. However I think I have enough. There comes a time when it's enough.


----------



## flea22

Rolled in some nos gec kt66 as powers and using ecc32 as drivers. Brown base english tubes ftw. Nice clear sound, bottom end not as good as 5998.


----------



## Deceneu808

Thinking about grabbing a Euforia AE. What should I expect coming from Elise ?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Thinking about grabbing a Euforia AE. What should I expect coming from Elise ?


Less warmth, way better detail.


----------



## Simple Man

I'm back.
Tried the Elize and Eurforia Gold.
Both very nice to listen to but I noticed both, especially the Euforia, very sensitive to what interling one use.
At home I use a Crystal Cable, now I did too. At the Euforia it was way too harsch to my ears, i do have a bit of tinnitus.
Changed the cable for an warmer audioqest was a lot better.
At home I've listened to the same songs and songparts again with the Violectric.
First thing i noticed was the lack of stage. Both the Elise and Euforia were bigger, wider whatever you want to call it. 
I don't complain about my combo but it was so clear.
Even think I heard new details I never noticed before. I think.
After a few hours I'm not convinced I 'need' one of them and if, what will it be? 
The difference between the Elize and Euforia were not that big. But the difference between the tube amps and the Violectric was huge!


----------



## Simple Man

O. I also listened to the Audeze XC on both. No problem.


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> O. I also listened to the Audeze XC on both. No problem.


NEED!? This means you would own nothing that was pleasurable 😀


----------



## Simple Man

This is the point. I love my Violectrics, both, But buying a tube amp means one have to go. Do I want this, now I do but how do I think about it when one is gone?


----------



## Ichos

Simple Man said:


> This is the point. I love my Violectrics, both, But buying a tube amp means one have to go. Do I want this, now I do but how do I think about it when one is gone?


A solid state amp is always handy to have together with a tube amp.


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> This is the point. I love my Violectrics, both, But buying a tube amp means one have to go. Do I want this, now I do but how do I think about it when one is gone?


Okay sounds good.
So yes, tube amps definitely offer more stage and depth and have excellent separation when it comes to instruments.
I personally haven't heard a solid state amp that can do that.

Cables: I didn't notice to be honest.
I use the Audioquest Cinamon as Rca, and have replaced the original glass fuse with the gold Hifi Tuning to get a bit more warmth and definition.
I don't know what you meant exactly.

I'm a bit surprised that the Xc runs so well, but why not, was it with the Feliks tubes or other tubes?
How was it with the Sennheiser for you?

If you like the Euforia so much that you want one, and you want to get rid of some of your current equipment, the decision is up to you.
I would probably part with the worse one or the one that has had the least playing time in the last half to three quarters of a year.
Or even the one you say you don't enjoy anymore.

But decide for yourself or only then when you have the Euforia and make a personal A/B comparison for yourself if it is permissible.
You don't have to rush into anything for now.

Which headphones from your collection have you tested with the Euforia?


----------



## UntilThen

Simple Man said:


> This is the point. I love my Violectrics, both, But buying a tube amp means one have to go. Do I want this, now I do but how do I think about it when one is gone?



It was an easy decision for me. I sold off my Questyle CMA 12, Violectric v280, Auralic Taurus Mk2 and kept my tube amps.  

Everyone have different preference though. So you have to decide that for yourself.


----------



## Simple Man

Deleeh said:


> I'm a bit surprised that the Xc runs so well, but why not, was it with the Feliks tubes or other tubes?
> How was it with the Sennheiser for you?



This was with the standard tubes. But I forgot to bring in my own XC and used the one in the shop. 
With the HD800 it was great, maybe even better than the Utopia I tried. The Utopia made the soundstag a bit more compact.


Deleeh said:


> If you like the Euforia so much that you want one, and you want to get rid of some of your current equipment, the decision is up to you.
> I would probably part with the worse one or the one that has had the least playing time in the last half to three quarters of a year.
> Or even the one you say you don't enjoy anymore.


I enjoy my amps both, but one has to go. I think it will be the 280. 


Deleeh said:


> But decide for yourself or only then when you have the Euforia and make a personal A/B comparison for yourself if it is permissible.
> You don't have to rush into anything for now.
> 
> Which headphones from your collection have you tested with the Euforia?


So that is the HD800s and not my XC.  These are my best and most used.


----------



## Simple Man

UntilThen said:


> It was an easy decision for me. I sold off my Questyle CMA 12, Violectric v280, Auralic Taurus Mk2 and kept my tube amps.
> 
> Everyone have different preference though. So you have to decide that for yourself.



As I wrote before, I think I sell the V280. Keep the 281. I love them both but I can use the money for the Euforia.


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> As I wrote before, I think I sell the V280. Keep the 281. I love them both but I can use the money for the Euforia.


In terms of specs, I like the V281 better than the V280.
And it also looks easier to operate.
So your gut feeling is not wrong.
The V281 also looks like it would work better with low-ohm headphones than with the V280.
This would also be an argument if you ever want to use low-ohm headphones later on.
That would be important to me personally.

But I can't judge the sound quality of both, I haven't seen or heard them yet.
I would let my gut, my ears and my head decide in the end.

Now you have to make the decision calmly.
Also whether Ae or non-Ae version.


----------



## UntilThen

Simple Man said:


> As I wrote before, I think I sell the V280. Keep the 281. I love them both but I can use the money for the Euforia.



I always think back on 2017 when I audition Ragnarok and Violectric 281 twice at the shop and end up buying Ragnarok only to sell off Ragnarok less than a year later. Had I got v281, I would probably still have kept it.  

That's history now. Someday, there will be a solid state in my rack again and it will cost.


----------



## Melting735 (Oct 15, 2021)

Folks, I am really enjoying my new Euphoria, but I sold most of my cans recently. Although my LCD-3 works okay, I like it much better on my Soloist.

I still have HD600 which pairs well, but I am thinking about getting HD800S, T1, Fostex 909, or ZMF verite. I am a little concerned with th909 since it's only 25ohm. Any recommendations?


----------



## LoryWiv

Melting735 said:


> Folks, I am really enjoying my new Euphoria, but I sold most of my cans recently. Although my LCD-3 works okay, I like it much better on my Soloist.
> 
> I still have HD600 which pairs well, but I am thinking about getting HD800S, T1, Fostex 909, or ZMF verite. I am a little concerned with th909 since it's only 25ohm. Any recommendations?


 There is much enthusiasm on the forums for ZMF dynamics (Auteur, Verite) running form OTL's. I certainly enjoy my Auteur / Elise combination very much.


----------



## Simple Man

Deleeh said:


> In terms of specs, I like the V281 better than the V280.
> And it also looks easier to operate.
> So your gut feeling is not wrong.
> The V281 also looks like it would work better with low-ohm headphones than with the V280.
> ...


The V281 are a better sounding amp but very slightly, I would say a bit more control. The reason to sell this one is it generates more cash. But now I decided to sell the V280. 
The version to buy is easy in this case, non AE, the AE became too technical for me, also I could’t recognize the tube sound I was hoping for. 
only thing is the color, I love the shiny black of it. 
I’ll ask my dealer if it is possible to…..


----------



## Simple Man

UntilThen said:


> I always think back on 2017 when I audition Ragnarok and Violectric 281 twice at the shop and end up buying Ragnarok only to sell off Ragnarok less than a year later. Had I got v281, I would probably still have kept it.
> 
> That's history now. Someday, there will be a solid state in my rack again and it will cost.


I’m sure I’ll keep the V281. Fell in love with it years ago, still am.
The extra money I can get from it iso the V280 is not enough.


----------



## Simple Man

Melting735 said:


> Folks, I am really enjoying my new Euphoria, but I sold most of my cans recently. Although my LCD-3 works okay, I like it much better on my Soloist.
> 
> I still have HD600 which pairs well, but I am thinking about getting HD800S, T1, Fostex 909, or ZMF verite. I am a little concerned with th909 since it's only 25ohm. Any recommendations?


I listened to the Euforia for hours yesterday with the 800s and the latest T1. Both great but here the 800 wins easily. Detail, stage, dept.
But I do have another recomendation to try: Focal Clear MG. Beautiful, not the Utopia yet but getting close. Mwah, a bit close.


----------



## Renexx (Oct 16, 2021)

Simple Man said:


> also I could’t recognize the tube sound I was hoping for.


Don't judge the amp by its stock tubes. They need to be plentyful available for the manufacturer.

I recommend:

Tungsol 6as7g + Melz 6n8s metal base 

Warm romantic tone and immersive holographic staging

Or 

GEC 6080 + RCA vt-231 

Nice wide staging and seperation by the gecs and wonderful  tubey harmonics from the RCA. 

Both combinations will make it easier to sell your SS amps. 👍


----------



## Simple Man

Renexx said:


> Don't judge the amp by its stock tubes. They need to be plentyful available for the manufacturer.
> 
> I recommend:
> 
> ...


Please stop!!
Don't get me into tube rolling 
(yet)


----------



## Simple Man

Now I have another situation. 
Told somebody about my feelings for the Euforia. He offered me an allmost new Elise for €1000!
I’ve listened to it and I think its also a great amp. Half the money of the Euforia. That can create oppertunities to buy tubes for the Elise. 
Will the Elise overclass the Euphoria with better tubes? 
I trust on your experience. 😉


----------



## ThanatosVI

Simple Man said:


> Now I have another situation.
> Told somebody about my feelings for the Euforia. He offered me an allmost new Elise for €1000!
> I’ve listened to it and I think its also a great amp. Half the money of the Euforia. That can create oppertunities to buy tubes for the Elise.
> Will the Elise overclass the Euphoria with better tubes?
> I trust on your experience. 😉


Elise will always have a tubier/warmer Charakter with less detail.

A matter of taste imo


----------



## Simple Man

Less detail is not what I want, a bit warmer is music to my ears.. 
I didn't notice less detail, I remember more dynamic and stage with the Euforia. Will this depend on the used tubes?. 
To me it is all more difficult than I expected.


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> Now I have another situation.
> Told somebody about my feelings for the Euforia. He offered me an allmost new Elise for €1000!
> I’ve listened to it and I think its also a great amp. Half the money of the Euforia. That can create oppertunities to buy tubes for the Elise.
> Will the Elise overclass the Euphoria with better tubes?
> I trust on your experience. 😉


The Elise has three factors that are less great than the Euforia.

The power is slightly less, which could be problematic with your Lcd XC.
The Elise does not support planar headphones at all like the Euforia does.
And the Elise is not quite as good as the Euforia in terms of sound.

They are both very good amplifiers, the Elise is supposed to be a bit warmer but doesn't go into the detail like the Euforia.
Spontaneously, I would have said that it's up to the person to decide what they like, Elise or Euforia.
And that it might also depend on the headphones you have and what you want to drive in the future.

@ThanatosVI Are the 6h8s mentioned 6sn7?
Also the ones you mentioned are hard to find.
And Gec is quite hard to find as 6080.
I haven't found anything for RCA vt-231 either.

Do you have a tip?


----------



## Renexx (Oct 16, 2021)

Sorry my mistake...it's 6n8s.
That's the Russian name for 6sn7.

Melz 6n8s metal base:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-x-6n8s-6s...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

GEC 6080 
https://www.ebay.de/itm/6080-cv2984...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

RCA vt-231
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-X-JAN-CRC...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0

I didn't find an offer for Tungsol 6as7g. They became rare.

Bendix 6080 (relabeled to Tungsol)
These are really rare also.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Paar-Tung-S...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Here is a summary of the sound for all 6080/6as7g tubes.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/bottlehead-crack.120/page-3

6sn7 sound 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0oPidBNtoNURvNmPn1SW1i
And
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/shootout-of-nos-6sn7-tubes.957631/


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> Less detail is not what I want, a bit warmer is music to my ears..
> I didn't notice less detail, I remember more dynamic and stage with the Euforia. Will this depend on the used tubes?.
> To me it is all more difficult than I expected.


Choose warmer tubes. They are well known round these pages, and tend to be British.


----------



## LoryWiv

ThanatosVI said:


> Elise will always have a tubier/warmer Charakter with less detail.
> 
> A matter of taste imo


Consensus is that @ThanatosVI is quite right, BUT as a happy Elise owner I can achieve marked change in the sound signature with tube rolling. Some pairings are downright analytical / solid state sounding. Elise is very versatile.


----------



## elrey

Melting735 said:


> Folks, I am really enjoying my new Euphoria, but I sold most of my cans recently. Although my LCD-3 works okay, I like it much better on my Soloist.
> 
> I still have HD600 which pairs well, but I am thinking about getting HD800S, T1, Fostex 909, or ZMF verite. I am a little concerned with th909 since it's only 25ohm. Any recommendations?


In my experience, the difference between the HD660 and HD800S is mind-blowing. I love the HD800S and the Euforia, I stoped looking for headgear after I matched them.


----------



## davveswe

Is it big difference between the 2018 and 2019 version? 

And if anyone want to sell, please contact me


----------



## flea22

After a bit of tube rolling I am settled on 5998 clear top and ecc32 drivers. If anyone is interested in nos testing gec kt66 and adapter's at a fair price pm me. Or they just stay as a back up. Or maybe investment?


----------



## OctavianH

flea22 said:


> After a bit of tube rolling I am settled on 5998 clear top and ecc32 drivers. If anyone is interested in nos testing gec kt66 and adapter's at a fair price pm me. Or they just stay as a back up. Or maybe investment?


You can try KT66 as drivers with KT88 as powers before selling.


----------



## JTbbb

flea22 said:


> After a bit of tube rolling I am settled on 5998 clear top and ecc32 drivers. If anyone is interested in nos testing gec kt66 and adapter's at a fair price pm me. Or they just stay as a back up. Or maybe investment?


You have arrived where I am, or I have arrived where you are 😀. 421a/5998 powers with ecc32’s, my favourite. Perhaps sell KT66’s and go looking for 5998’s as backup. A trade might work too.


----------



## Deleeh

Thank you @Renexx 👍

The offers are a bit underground for my taste.
I'd rather wait for it.

I thought there was still a reasonable dealer who would sell them at a serious price.🤗


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Thank you @Renexx 👍
> 
> The offers are a bit underground for my taste.
> I'd rather wait for it.
> ...


Yes, the prices quoted seem quite high. One way to get better prices is to familiarize yourself with the names of rebranded tubes of the same kind and look for them. Patience pays...


----------



## Melting735

Something is wrong with my 1 week old Euphoria. Yesterday, it shut down by itself when I was listening. I unplugged and turned off the switch. Let it cool down completely, and it was able to come back. However, it worked another 15 mins and stopped working. I can't turn it on again. I absolutely treated it like a baby, was using stock tubes all the time, never used it more than 4 hours in one session. There shouldn't be overheating issue since space is open enough.

I will try with other tubes today. If not, I will try a new fuse. Anyone knows what fuse does this amp use? My unit is a 120v regular version, not the AE one.


----------



## Deceneu808

Melting735 said:


> Something is wrong with my 1 week old Euphoria. Yesterday, it shut down by itself when I was listening. I unplugged and turned off the switch. Let it cool down completely, and it was able to come back. However, it worked another 15 mins and stopped working. I can't turn it on again. I absolutely treated it like a baby, was using stock tubes all the time, never used it more than 4 hours in one session. There shouldn't be overheating issue since space is open enough.
> 
> I will try with other tubes today. If not, I will try a new fuse. Anyone knows what fuse does this amp use? My unit is a 120v regular version, not the AE one.


E mail Lukasz at Feliks. He is quick to respond and help.


----------



## Melting735

Deceneu808 said:


> E mail Lukasz at Feliks. He is quick to respond and help.


Will do. Thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

Melting735 said:


> Something is wrong with my 1 week old Euphoria. Yesterday, it shut down by itself when I was listening. I unplugged and turned off the switch. Let it cool down completely, and it was able to come back. However, it worked another 15 mins and stopped working. I can't turn it on again. I absolutely treated it like a baby, was using stock tubes all the time, never used it more than 4 hours in one session. There shouldn't be overheating issue since space is open enough.
> 
> I will try with other tubes today. If not, I will try a new fuse. Anyone knows what fuse does this amp use? My unit is a 120v regular version, not the AE one.


You can check whether the fuse has remained intact or not.
If it has blown, a new one is useless because there is a reason why it blew.

The value is written on the fuse, unfortunately I don't know the Us value.

But if the fuse has remained intact, it has not blown.
The cause is somewhere else.

I wouldn't try too hard.
Take it back to the shop where you bought it, they should exchange it for you.
Because you would still be within the 14-day return period.
That should be possible.

Otherwise, contact Feliks support if you have no success.
They usually know what's going on.

It is not normal for tubes to say goodbye, it is usually noticeable in a different way.
By hissing, scratching etc.

Have they all failed or just one?
If they have all failed, it could have something to do with the heating or bias control.
If it was only one, then 3 should still be burning.


----------



## Henrim

Looking for some tube recommendations

I find the stock tubes a bit too warm sounding for some genres (Which might be surprising, I think it's because the synergy in my system). These KT77 as powers brighten the sound nicely, but it's lost the beautiful 3D soundstage.

Is there a pair of tubes which gets the best of both worlds? Preferably in the stock family.


----------



## Renexx

Maybe tungsol/cetron 7236 is quite neutral but a little rare to find. Since you like bright tubes it might be the best choice. No big soundstage.

Tungsol 5998 has  overall best technicalities in every aspect and is neutral to my ears. Maybe already on the warm side for you.
Use Sylvania VT-231 as driver for an airy and neutral presentation. Wide soundstage and nice detail retrieval.


----------



## Simple Man

@Henrim Listen to de Euforia I found out it is (vrry) sensitive for the interlink used. I had the impression the sound was too bright/sharp in a few tracks, changing the silver Crystal Cable  to a Audioquest gave a better result. All the the standard tubes.


----------



## Simple Man

BTW I’m very interested in the tube swap topic.


----------



## Henrim

Just ordered a pair of Sylvania VT-231 from the US, that description and price is very agreeable! The wait begins  

I've also got a pair of RCA 6ASG7 coming which I bought flippantly the other night! No idea how they'll sound but my finger was trigger ready


----------



## Renexx

You will love the Sylvanias. I'm looking for a 43' pair myself.

The RCA 6as7g is a warm and punchy tube.


----------



## Deleeh

I found that the 6AS7G extremely masked the details.
The whole thing ended for me personally when I switched to the 6080 it was a real revelation.

I had had this with the in-house tubes as well as the RCAs.
And had a good 100 hours of play in at the beginning.
It was definitely not mine, the 6AS7G.


----------



## Renexx

Deleeh said:


> I found that the 6AS7G extremely masked the details.
> The whole thing ended for me personally when I switched to the 6080 it was a real revelation.
> 
> I had had this with the in-house tubes as well as the RCAs.
> ...


Yes I do agree. 

I did listen to RCA 6as7g + Sylvania 53' chrome domes tonight and the RCA did really mask the details.

GEC 6as7g + chrome domes is a sweet combination. Absolutely love it.


----------



## Deleeh

Yes, this is a real tragedy.
Especially the Gec is hard to find and if it is, it is totally overpriced in my eyes.
That's the annoying thing about the whole thing.

With the 6SN7 it still works to some extent, but that will also change, even if the tubes are already 70 years old.


Renexx said:


> Yes I do agree.
> 
> I did listen to RCA 6as7g + Sylvania 53' chrome domes tonight and the RCA did really mask the details.
> 
> GEC 6as7g + chrome domes is a sweet combination. Absolutely love it.


----------



## Renexx

https://www.ebay.de/itm/6as7g-a1834...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Langrex UK sells them NIB and also measures them for you. 
Never saw them that cheap before. I wonder why it's not sold out already.

These are the best warm power tubes for the Euphoria close behind tungsol 5998/WE421a. Holy grail 💡


----------



## Henrim

Am I confused? 5998 is cheaper


----------



## Renexx (Oct 19, 2021)

Yes 5998 is not that rare but sounds fantastic. I got mine for 200$ plus shipping.

GEC NIB is a good deal since they became super rare.


----------



## Henrim

Ahh right. They certainly look the part, love that light blue sticker and 'made in england'.


----------



## Henrim

Has anyone measured the power consumption of the Euforia?


----------



## jg1337

Henrim said:


> Has anyone measured the power consumption of the Euforia?


I did using my Lab12 Gordian, it's about 80-90W.


----------



## Melting735 (Oct 21, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> You can check whether the fuse has remained intact or not.
> If it has blown, a new one is useless because there is a reason why it blew.
> 
> The value is written on the fuse, unfortunately I don't know the Us value.
> ...


Thanks for the tips. I think I found out why the fuse failed.

I took the fuse out
It was a T1.25AL250V, but the back of the amp said T1.6A fuse should be used.
I ended up ordering T1.6AH250V ceramic fuse. It worked a whole night without any issue.
Since I bought my Euforia brand new, it must be someone installed a wrong fuse on production line. In the first week, I only use it to drive hd600, lcd3, so the 1.25a fuse was still able to handle the current. On the day it failed, I purchased a Beyer T1 600ohm. The poor fuse could hold no more. It makes sense. 

Btw, for anyone who needs new fuse, use 1.6A time delay or slow blow fuse. Ceramic and glass are both fine.


----------



## Deleeh

Melting735 said:


> Thanks for the tips. I think I found out why the fuse failed.
> 
> I took the fuse out
> It was a T1.25AL250V, but the back of the amp said T1.6A fuse should be used.
> ...


Hmm, that's weird that a fuse was installed that is below the setpoint.
I can hardly imagine that Feliks did that.
Precisely because you attach great importance to quality assurance and minimal downtime.

Has Feliks commented on that in any way?

I bought this here:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/f...copper-slow-5-x-20mm-t-audio-grade-fuses.html

And brought something again.
I also installed the same in the Dac.
Everything is in the subtle area but noticeable at the first point, but you forget about it later.

The silver version is a little lighter and a little more saturated in all areas and a little less warm.
For the Euforia I prefer the golden one because it plays a little warmer and there is a little more bass presence with a slightly nicer midrange.
I still have it in my setup today.


----------



## Renexx (Oct 21, 2021)

The fuse really changes the sound quality?

I think you lose the warranty when opening the amp for changing the fuse.


----------



## Deleeh

Renexx said:


> The fuse really changes the sound quality?
> 
> I think you lose the warranty when opening the amp for changing the fuse.


A little bit change it yes.
You don‘t lose the warranty,the Fuse are outside for the change.See the picture from @Melting735 when you scroll up.


----------



## Renexx (Oct 21, 2021)

Did somebody ask the manufacturer about the  fuse needs to be slow or fast blow ?

I did read an audiophile fuse might blow more easily than a manufacturer fuse due to tolerance.

50€ is alot for a fuse I guess.
Oh I saw there is also one for half and one for double the price 💸

But seems to be an interesting tweak.


----------



## Melting735

Deleeh said:


> Hmm, that's weird that a fuse was installed that is below the setpoint.
> I can hardly imagine that Feliks did that.
> Precisely because you attach great importance to quality assurance and minimal downtime.
> 
> ...


The copper fuse looks really nice. Anything with hifi/audiophile title will cost 100 times more,lol. 

I got these ones below since they are the fastest ones that I could get in Canada. They will be my temperary solution.

10PCS Ceramic fuses T1.6AH250V Slow-Blow 5x20mm/0.197"x0.787" 1.6AMP 250V (T1.6A) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0821MNTM6/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_S9N3XJK4153GCRPZYW3H

Feliks didn't say anything about their QA yet  , but they confirmed that I can use those fuse that I bought.


----------



## Melting735

Renexx said:


> Did somebody ask the manufacturer about the  fuse needs to be slow or fast blow ?
> 
> I did read an audiophile fuse might blow more easily than a manufacturer fuse due to tolerance.
> 
> ...


Yes, it must be slow blow. Slow blow give you like 10 sec tolerance to current spikes. If you use fast blow, the fuse may get blown too often


----------



## Deleeh

Renexx said:


> Hat jemand den Hersteller gefragt, ob die Sicherung langsam oder schnell durchbrennen muss?
> 
> Ich habe gelesen, dass eine audiophile Sicherung aufgrund von Toleranzen leichter durchbrennen könnte als eine Herstellersicherung.
> 
> ...


Hallo,
Für die Eu ist es 5x20 T=Slow Blow 1,25 A.
Bitte beachten Sie, dass sich die Sicherung für die USA, Australien und Japan ändern kann.

Meine damaligen Eindrücke habe ich hier niedergeschrieben.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-609

50€ sind nichts, wenn man die anderen von Phonosophie und Co. vergleicht...die ab 80€ aufwärts beginnen.
Und wenn man die Berichte liest, bezweifle ich wirklich, dass die teureren mit dem Hifi-Tuning mithalten oder besser sind.
Da ist der Vorgang meist ähnlich.
Das ist natürlich mein Eindruck, wenn ich den ganzen Vortrag lese.
Natürlich reichen die normalen.

Ich habe sie erst gewechselt und entdeckt, als ich die Sicherung an meinem Dac überprüfte und sah, dass die Kappe locker war.
Die Qualität war also nicht besonders gut und typisch in China von der weniger guten Seite her.


----------



## Melting735

Renexx said:


> The fuse really changes the sound quality?
> 
> I think you lose the warranty when opening the amp for changing the fuse.





Deleeh said:


> A little bit change it yes.
> You don‘t lose the warranty,the Fuse are outside for the change.See the picture from @Melting735 when you scroll up.



What I heard from other places is that if the fuse is not used directly in the audio circuit path, it is unlikely to affect sound. For Euforia, I think the fuse is only for the incoming AC power. 

For me, it is probably the last thing to replace.


----------



## Alu

I just wanted to add that I only recently purchased the AE of this amp and coming from the Pathos Aurium hybrid amp this is definitely an upgrade I should've invested in sooner (instead of waiting literal years).
This and the Utopia really are pretty magical and the result is the type of sound I'm looking for.
I'm also now very interested in trying the Meze Empyrean as a comparison, but I'll likely not get rid of the Utopes.

I have a question regarding any advice with closed back headphones: Is there any closed headphone that anyone feels is an amazing match with the amp?
I haven't really found many people mention anything along those lines and I'm currently looking at potentially blocking out some noise, such as the one made by my other half when she's attacking her keyboard with the fury of a thousand suns aka working from home.


----------



## Renexx

ZMF Verite closed sounds lovely on the Euphoria and will be a good contrast to your Utopia.


----------



## Deleeh

That's not quite right.
Because the current must flow through the fuse before it reaches the other components.
Regardless of the wire thickness spoken in the fuse.
Take the glass fuse as an example.
The current also sometimes creates a movement in the wire because it is under voltage like the wire in the glass fuse.
Also independent of what else is generated physically such as noise, jitter etc..
Of course, this can calm down over time.
But as long as it is still under voltage, it still produces a slight vibration that can affect the whole circuit board like a kind of shock in a rhythm.
Metaphorically speaking, like when you accelerate a car and lift your foot off the gas and accelerate again in a rhythm.

I would still prefer a ceramic fuse to a glass one because the wire is encased in the ceramic and the vibration can be roughly absorbed.
Of course, you can go a step further and make the wire thicker, fill it with sand and put it in a ceramic casing and cryogenise it for me.
Like Hifi tuning has done.
And also others who want to have a whole arm's length for it from a price point of view.

If it had been more expensive, I would have said no thanks.

As I said before, it's subtle features that improve, it's up to you whether you buy it, do it or not.
I see it this way, if you add up many subtle things, you can also talk a bit about sound performance.
It's more like an investment in a cable.
That also only improves/deteriorates subtle characteristics.


----------



## Melting735 (Oct 22, 2021)

Jesus, the amp doesn't turn on again yesterday. I replaced the fuse a few times, no luck at all. There must be other issues. I have to deal with the dealer again. They are not very willing to do the exchange but I am not very willing to let them repair. Let's see what's going on


----------



## Deleeh

Melting735 said:


> Jesus, the amp doesn't turn on again yesterday. I replaced the fuse a few times, no luck at all. There must be other issues. I have to deal with the dealer again. They are not very willing to do the exchange but I am not very willing to let them repair. Let's see what's going on


Hello,
I don't know what the buying conditions are like in your country.
But the fact is you have 3 years warranty on the purchase of the device.
There are then only 3 possibilities,
The dealer replaces it and takes care of the repair himself. And gives you a new one.
The dealer takes the device and sends it to Poland for repair at his own expense.
The dealer repairs the appliance himself if he has the means to do so.


If it is a big problem for you, I would ask Feliks again what you can/should do. Maybe Feliks is kind enough to send you a label since it is a new unit so that you can send it directly to Poland to have it repaired.
That would be the better way, because Feliks can act more directly.
Feliks may even send you a new unit when the old one arrives.

The other thing is that since you just bought it, you should be able to cancel the purchase. Even if you have a 30-day right of return, the dealer has to take it back.
If he's that stupid, it would have been the last time for me, to be honest.

It sounds like you have already changed the fuse several times.
Could it be a ground fault or a defect in the transformer?
Has the fuse blown every time or has it only happened once?
The fact that it won't switch on now is probably because you have overloaded something.
Like changing the fuse frequently if it has blown every time.

There is often a reason why the fuse blows, and the most common cause is usually a short circuit or overvoltage.
If you can rule it out in your house or flat that it is not coming from your socket, then the appliance has something wrong with it.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Try to talk to both sides - the dealer and Feliks - and then decide for yourself which you prefer.

Of course, it would be stupid of the dealer if he still has an Euforia in stock and doesn't exchange it.
As a gesture of goodwill and anger that you had, and above all, you would actually want to enter the shop again if the service was right.


----------



## Melting735

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I don't know what the buying conditions are like in your country.
> But the fact is you have 3 years warranty on the purchase of the device.
> There are then only 3 possibilities,
> ...


Thanks a lot for your words and advice. I think the dealer is making an arrangement for repairing. 
It is not fuse any more because I tried a few new fuse. No luck at all. Any thing other than fuse will be beyond my diagnose ability. I will leave it to their techs.
I don't like them to repair it because it will take long time and leave me no amp to use, and who knows what those techs will do to the units. However, I don't have a choice now. I will definitely contact Feliks if the dealer charge me shipping or they can't do it.

Ya, finger cross, hopefully it will be a good repair.


----------



## Simple Man

Did you try another headphone on it. could be there is something wrong which coases a failure. Have you tried to swap the tubes from left to right channel and vise versa?
good luck!


----------



## Melting735

Simple Man said:


> Did you try another headphone on it. could be there is something wrong which coases a failure. Have you tried to swap the tubes from left to right channel and vise versa?
> good luck!


I tried swapping tube position and also using other tubes that I have, no luck. It's definitely not a tube issue.

In the first week, I only used HD600 and LCD3 and got trouble free. the issue started when I threw T1 2nd gen onto it. I recently acquired those cans for Euforia. The original owner of T1 only use them a couple times since he doesn't have any hifi system to drive it. They were like brand new when I got them, and they sounds flawless to my ear. It's hard to believe that they were the trouble maker.

I can't prove if HD600 can replicate the problem since the amp doesn't work anymore.


----------



## Deleeh

Melting735 said:


> I tried swapping tube position and also using other tubes that I have, no luck. It's definitely not a tube issue.
> 
> In the first week, I only used HD600 and LCD3 and got trouble free. the issue started when I threw T1 2nd gen onto it. I recently acquired those cans for Euforia. The original owner of T1 only use them a couple times since he doesn't have any hifi system to drive it. They were like brand new when I got them, and they sounds flawless to my ear. It's hard to believe that they were the trouble maker.
> 
> I can't prove if HD600 can replicate the problem since the amp doesn't work anymore.


I think it is a coincidence that the T1 was plugged in and caused the failure.
And if it is OK, it was pure coincidence.
If it is, it's a problem with the amplifier that it stopped working at 600 ohms.

Ideally, it would be good if it went to Poland to be checked there so Feliks could investigate.

It's hard when you live in Canada or the US.
Because the amplifier will be on the road for 4-6 weeks for repair.

I would definitely do what Feliks suggests in the first place.
But still talk to the dealer about what he suggests.
I still think that an exchange should be possible and for the dealer it is at the end of the day that he can't currently sell a Feliks if he only has one left in stock.

I wouldn't do anything more on the amp that isn't necessary until it's clear what's going to happen to it.
In Canada there is upscale Audio who might have repair rights to shorten the repair time.
But that would be the last place I would go.
It is possible that Feliks has a repair service in America if you live in the area.

For me in Europe, it was no problem to send the Euforia to Poland when it broke down, which cost me 50€.
And it was quicker than sending it to Poland via the dealer who would probably have sent it via the distributor.
That was too inconvenient for me.

Write to Feliks anyway and tell him about the incident and wait to see what Lukasz suggests.
He is quite accommodating and open and straightforward in such matters.
And the repair is usually quick when he arrives in Poland.
Mine would originally have been on the way in just under 3 weeks.
It took longer because the Fedex driver was such a lazy person that it took almost 4 weeks.
And in the end I picked up the Euforia in my region at the Starion and the driver got even more annoyance from me and the boss.
I was at home both times and he didn't show up and each time the delivery was postponed.
Apart from that, everything else was fine with Feliks support, service and communication.
Everything was checked, cleaned and packed without any problems.
Even the tubes were checked.


----------



## cddc

Melting735 said:


> Jesus, the amp doesn't turn on again yesterday. I replaced the fuse a few times, no luck at all. There must be other issues. I have to deal with the dealer again. They are not very willing to do the exchange but I am not very willing to let them repair. Let's see what's going on



Fuses can only be blown or working, they are not likely to cause intermittent working condition.






Melting735 said:


> I tried swapping tube position and also using other tubes that I have, no luck. It's definitely not a tube issue.
> 
> In the first week, I only used HD600 and LCD3 and got trouble free. the issue started when I threw T1 2nd gen onto it. I recently acquired those cans for Euforia. The original owner of T1 only use them a couple times since he doesn't have any hifi system to drive it. They were like brand new when I got them, and they sounds flawless to my ear. It's hard to believe that they were the trouble maker.
> 
> I can't prove if HD600 can replicate the problem since the amp doesn't work anymore.



Headphones are just some simple coils, they are either continuous or broken, so they can't lead to intermittent working condition too.


Most likely some component has issues inside the amp, maybe some relay or cap or something else. You'd better ask the dealer to solve the problem within warranty.


----------



## cddc

Another possibility is that there could be some cold soldering joint inside the amp, it's on and off depending on whether the joint is making contact. Again, this is not something a user is supposed to solve. Ask the dealer/manufacturer to solve the problem within warranty asap.


----------



## UntilThen

Henrim said:


> Looking for some tube recommendations
> 
> I find the stock tubes a bit too warm sounding for some genres (Which might be surprising, I think it's because the synergy in my system). These KT77 as powers brighten the sound nicely, but it's lost the beautiful 3D soundstage.
> 
> Is there a pair of tubes which gets the best of both worlds? Preferably in the stock family.



I should organise a session with you. Bring your Euforia over to my place and listen to Odyssey with those KT77s and my other power tubes on Odyssey. I too want to hear KT77 on Euforia for myself. I also have a superb pair of Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080 for you to try on Euforia.


----------



## Simple Man

Melting735 said:


> I tried swapping tube position and also using other tubes that I have, no luck. It's definitely not a tube issue.
> 
> In the first week, I only used HD600 and LCD3 and got trouble free. the issue started when I threw T1 2nd gen onto it. I recently acquired those cans for Euforia. The original owner of T1 only use them a couple times since he doesn't have any hifi system to drive it. They were like brand new when I got them, and they sounds flawless to my ear. It's hard to believe that they were the trouble maker.
> 
> I can't prove if HD600 can replicate the problem since the amp doesn't work anymore.


Oei, it's not working at all now, I over read this. 
I was hoping for a loose wire to one of the cans or a bad connection which could have caused the problem. It happened before.
Wish you all the luck. And soon.


----------



## Henrim

UntilThen said:


> I should organise a session with you. Bring your Euforia over to my place and listen to Odyssey with those KT77s and my other power tubes on Odyssey. I too want to hear KT77 on Euforia for myself. I also have a superb pair of Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6080 and Bendix 6080 for you to try on Euforia.


Keen!


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## Henrim (Oct 25, 2021)

I took my Euforia to minidisc in Sydney and tried the qutest DAC, among other things. I’ve realised what I read was true, the old yggy is anti synergising with the euforia, adding bloat to the upper bass. So I’m selling the yggy (pm if interested) but what should I get?

Has anyone tried the denafrips DACs with the euforia? I’m considering the Pontus II. Qutest is always an option but limited connections on the back is a downside.

Edit: the “old yggy” is the GS version


----------



## Henrim

Henrim said:


> I took my Euforia to minidisc in Sydney and tried the qutest DAC, among other things. I’ve realised what I read was true, the old yggy is anti synergising with the euforia, adding bloat to the upper bass. So I’m selling the yggy (pm if interested) but what should I get?
> 
> Has anyone tried the denafrips DACs with the euforia? I’m considering the Pontus II. Qutest is always an option but limited connections on the back is a downside.



Oops answering my own question again:



Ichos said:


> Very organic and analogue timbre.
> Harmonic wealth  and natural texture.
> Full bodied and engaging sound.
> Of course if you can afford it goes like Ares II<Pontus II<Venus II with the Pontus being the sweet spot.


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> I took my Euforia to minidisc in Sydney and tried the qutest DAC, among other things. I’ve realised what I read was true, the old yggy is anti synergising with the euforia, adding bloat to the upper bass. So I’m selling the yggy (pm if interested) but what should I get?
> 
> Has anyone tried the denafrips DACs with the euforia? I’m considering the Pontus II. Qutest is always an option but limited connections on the back is a downside.
> 
> Edit: the “old yggy” is the GS version


Take a look to the Mhdt Labs Atlantis,is more Analog then the Ares 2 when is more your favorit.
They are of my wishlist the Atlanis or the Orchid.
The Orchid  from Mhdt Labs can be run with a Adapter with a 6SN7 tube 🙈.

can be it really keen😊.


----------



## Quince

Henrim said:


> I took my Euforia to minidisc in Sydney and tried the qutest DAC, among other things. I’ve realised what I read was true, the old yggy is anti synergising with the euforia, adding bloat to the upper bass. So I’m selling the yggy (pm if interested) but what should I get?
> 
> Has anyone tried the denafrips DACs with the euforia? I’m considering the Pontus II. Qutest is always an option but limited connections on the back is a downside.
> 
> Edit: the “old yggy” is the GS version


Not your question exactly. But I used the audio quest 90° RCA splitters very satisfactorily on the qutest.


----------



## Henrim

Deleeh said:


> Take a look to the Mhdt Labs Atlantis,is more Analog then the Ares 2 when is more your favorit.
> They are of my wishlist the Atlanis or the Orchid.
> The Orchid  from Mhdt Labs can be run with a Adapter with a 6SN7 tube 🙈.
> 
> can be it really keen😊.


That looks very intriguing!


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> That looks very intriguing!


yes, they both look very good.
It's on the list for next year.
But I'm still undecided which one to take, the Orchid or the Atlantis.
There is a huge post somewhere here in the forum and also from someone who already has or had all of them with a great report.


----------



## Yoram Diamand (Oct 26, 2021)

​
Nieuw bericht van: xulingmrs 


(11,183
	

)​
hello,don't waste my money,i will not send again,please.
Thanks!

Hi, I bought the converters for KT88 on ebay, but they did not arrive. So I said they did not arrive. Thus I got my money back, and I tried to buy them again. Which was not appreciated at all.​


----------



## Deleeh

Warum k


Yoram Diamand said:


> ​
> Nieuw bericht van: xulingmrs
> 
> 
> ...


Hello,
Why don't you order one from Deyan?
His work is otherwise good.
I still have 3 pieces that I ordered from him in March.
Never used them until now.
I could offer them to you if you like?
According to Deyan you can use 6L6 6V6 EL34 EL37 KT66 KT77 KT88 tubes with the adapters.

Maybe this will help you.


----------



## Aquileolus

Hi folks, can anyone please help me understand the output impedance of Euforia? I can't find it in the spec, also haven't seen a definitive answer in the forum... 
Also does the impedance change with the tubes? If so, is there a formula to calculate that?


----------



## Deleeh (Oct 27, 2021)

Hello,

The maximum power at 600 ohms is 250Mw.

Output power: 250mW
Distortion factor: 0.4 % (300 Ohm, 20 mW)
Supported headphone impedance: 32 - 600 Ohm
Planar magnetics included


----------



## Henrim

I could find a couple of posts about output impedance. About 50 ohms, but it might depend on tubes.




DavidA said:


> Thanks for all the replies about the output impedance.  I was informed by some of the posters in the BottleHead thread that the output impedance of the BH Crack changes depending on which tubes are used and it can vary quite a bit from 50ohms up to 120ohms IIRC, which in turn changes the sound quite a bit with some headphones like the HE-560, HD-650, Ether/Ether C so I'm thinking that those who like the some of these headphones on the Elise might be using tubes/combos which lower the output impedance much lower than with the stock tubes.  Does anyone know how to calculate the output impedance with the various tube combos, still trying to see if Elise or Euforia can be my do it all amp.





LoryWiv said:


> Question for other users running low impedance HP out of Euforia:  My only experience with Elise thus far is with my beloved ZMF Auteur at 300 ohm impedance. Iam very interested in the Clear Mg as a complimentary set but in general it's stated that Elise / Euforia with their high output impedance around 50 ohms are better suited for high impedance headphones. However, Feliks specs state compatibility at 32-600 ohms. T
> 
> hus the question, can one get good synergy with Elise / Eforia out to relatively low impedance headphones like Clear, Stellia, Empyrean or does it alter the sound signature and tonality in potentially undesirable ways?
> 
> Thoughts from other users appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Aquileolus

Thanks guys, the reason I asked is based on @zach915m, ZMF headphones would work better on higher impedance amps, and I found that is very true. My VC sounds somewhat muted and dull on both my SS amp (Burson Soloist 3xp and Hugo TT2, both with output < 1ohms), and I don't feel that when using Euforia with VC, thus curious of the output impedance of Euforia.


----------



## Henrim

Aquileolus said:


> Thanks guys, the reason I asked is based on @zach915m, ZMF headphones would work better on higher impedance amps, and I found that is very true. My VC sounds somewhat muted and dull on both my SS amp (Burson Soloist 3xp and Hugo TT2, both with output < 1ohms), and I don't feel that when using Euforia with VC, thus curious of the output impedance of Euforia.



Ahh yup, that makes sense. Same with the Utopia, they really come to life on the euforia.


----------



## Deleeh

Aquileolus said:


> Thanks guys, the reason I asked is based on @zach915m, ZMF headphones would work better on higher impedance amps, and I found that is very true. My VC sounds somewhat muted and dull on both my SS amp (Burson Soloist 3xp and Hugo TT2, both with output < 1ohms), and I don't feel that when using Euforia with VC, thus curious of the output impedance of Euforia.


Some here have the Euforia with the Zmf and have hardly reported anything bad. On the contrary, what I have read is that it is better with the tube amp.
Apparently the Euforia/Zmf pairing is quite good.
Of course, the Zmf is a bit hungry, which is normal at 300 ohm.
So is the Sennheiser Hd 600.
The muffled sound of the SS amplifier may be due to insufficient power or poor tuning.
This can happen with SS amplifiers when you want to save money.

You should never compare the power between SS and tube amplifiers, the differences are too big.
For a tube amp often less is enough than for the Ss and at first sight.
The 250 mw are easily enough to operate the Zmf.
The situation is different with low-ohm headphones.
The Fostex with 25 ohm is still accepted by the Euforia, but I wouldn't go any lower.
With the Aeon R/T 14 ohm as a planar headphone, it only works if you listen quietly. if you turn it up, it starts to distort.
The Euforia was not really made for the low ohm range. The demand was not necessary at that time.
Today it's a bit different with the Iem's,low ohm planar headphones as well as dynamic headphones.
You can always go up with the Euforia, but you tend not to go down.


----------



## myphone

Aquileolus said:


> Hi folks, can anyone please help me understand the output impedance of Euforia? I can't find it in the spec, also haven't seen a definitive answer in the forum...
> Also does the impedance change with the tubes? If so, is there a formula to calculate that?


https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/feliks/1.html. 

"Measured with a max 1.8Vrms input where THD falls below 0.5%, Euforia will deliver 0.13 watts into 32Ω and 300Ω, 0.2W into 100Ω and 0.08W into 600Ω. Voltage gain is 20dB and output impedance 20Ω. S/NR is about 97dB. Examples of headphones our customers really like with Euforia are Focal Utopia, ZMF Eikon, Audeze LCD2, Sennheiser HD800/s, BeyerDynamic T1."


----------



## Aquileolus

Deleeh said:


> The muffled sound of the SS amplifier may be due to insufficient power or poor tuning.
> This can happen with SS amplifiers when you want to save money.


I'm actually a little confusing here, because both my SS amps (Burson Soloist and Hugo TT 2) have tons of power, and they are certainly not cheap ones, only thing in common is they both have a very low output impedance, but I still feel muffled compare to Euforia... Seems there are really some magic between ZMFs and Tube amps


----------



## LoryWiv

Aquileolus said:


> I'm actually a little confusing here, because both my SS amps (Burson Soloist and Hugo TT 2) have tons of power, and they are certainly not cheap ones, only thing in common is they both have a very low output impedance, but I still feel muffled compare to Euforia... Seems there are really some magic between ZMFs and Tube amps


I am no expert but I don't think it's just about power output. The synergy with high output OTL amps also relates to damping factor of the high impedance HP driver.


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 27, 2021)

~ My non-EE take on this: (a) the ‘nominal’ input impedance of the ZMF Auteur is 300 ohms; (b) the ‘nominal’ output impedance for the Burson Soloist is 0.5 ohms, for the Euforia is reported to be 50 ohms (a little low?🤷🏻); (c) the Soloist/Auteur ‘damping factor’ is 600; the Euforia/Auteur ‘damping factor’ is 6.
~ If a ‘damping factor’ _comfortably_ above 1 results in ‘good’ speaker control by an amplifier, perhaps 600 is overkill…which prevents ‘blossoming’ or ‘release’ of a transducer like the ZMF Auteur…
~ Edit:  I read that a solid-state h/p/a favoured by Zach at ZMF is the Beyerdynamic A2 which has, as one of its settings, a ‘nominal’ output impedance of 100 ohms.


----------



## Aquileolus

jonathan c said:


> ~ My non-EE take on this: (a) the ‘nominal’ input impedance of the ZMF Auteur is 300 ohms; (b) the ‘nominal’ output impedance for the Burson Soloist is 0.5 ohms, for the Euforia is reported to be 50 ohms (a little low?🤷🏻); (c) the Soloist/Auteur ‘damping factor’ is 600; the Euforia/Auteur ‘damping factor’ is 6.
> ~ If a ‘damping factor’ _comfortably_ above 1 results in ‘good’ speaker control by an amplifier, perhaps 600 is overkill…which prevents ‘blossoming’ or ‘release’ of a transducer like the ZMF Auteur…
> ~ Edit:  I read that a solid-state h/p/a favoured by Zach at ZMF is the Beyerdynamic A2 which has, as one of its settings, a ‘nominal’ output impedance of 100 ohms.


Thank you for the explanation! This is by far the clearest one I've read.
I saw the Singxer SA-1 also has a high-z mode with around 10 ohms output impedance, probably that could do better than the Soloist?


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 28, 2021)

Aquileolus said:


> Thank you for the explanation! This is by far the clearest one I've read.
> I saw the Singxer SA-1 also has a high-z mode with around 10 ohms output impedance, probably that could do better than the Soloist?


I believe that the SA-1 would be a better ‘load’ match to the Auteur. Input/output impedance match/mismatch is only one element in h/p/a —> h/p pairing and how they sound…


----------



## Magol79

The output impedance of the Euforia has been stated by FA to be about 20 Ohms. For the Elise it is somewhere around 40-50 Ohms.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Now also available in Europe for us Europeans.
And a lot cheaper to get than over the ponds.
The first link are the ones I have had since March this year.
Excellent tubes, I can only say again.

https://btb-elektronik.de/en/produc...-series-tubes-factory-matched-tube-pair-2pcs/

The second link I don't know myself.
They are cheaper and probably not quite as good as the Elite version.
Reminiscent of the Ps Vane if you look closely.
But I'm not sure.
I can't say how they sound, and unfortunately I haven't read anything about them yet.
Here is the link:
https://btb-elektronik.de/en/product/5442/6sn7-linlai-hifi-roehren-factory-matched-tube-pairs--x2/

By the way, the location is Germany, and as it says on the site, they are a general agent.


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 29, 2021)

Magol79 said:


> The output impedance of the Euforia has been stated by FA to be about 20 Ohms. For the Elise it is somewhere around 40-50 Ohms


Thanks @Magol79, this is very helpful. 2 f/u questions:

1. I assume that is with stock tubes. Any information as to how that may differ using non-standard output tubes (EG - KT-88)?
2. Did you have to email them to find this info.? (I searched online and came up empty)!

Have a great weekend!


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks @Magol79, this is very helpful. 2 f/u questions:
> 
> 1. I assume that is with stock tubes. Any information as to how that may differ using non-standard output tubes (EG - KT-88)?
> 2. Did you have to email them to find this info.? (I searched online and came up empty)!
> ...


No, there are no measured results on the mod base tubes.
You should also be warned that Feliks knows about this and the warranty will be voided if they find out.
Because the Euforia is not designed for the mod socket and there have already been failures.
With the mod socket, you should not go beyond 7 amps.

Apart from that, you'd better try to find a tube combination that you might like and that is feasible with the permissible tubes that are mentioned in the manual.
On the other hand, there are other ways to give the Euforia a boost without overloading it like with the mod socket.

The values measured and in the specifications where you are referring to are measured from the series tubes, i.e. the 6As7G Svetlana and 6SN7 Ps vane as far as output impedance is concerned.
Since they are the same type, combining the 6080 with the Ps vanes, for example, will probably not change anything.
If you do, it will be minimal and not noticeable.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> No, there are no measured results on the mod base tubes.
> You should also be warned that Feliks knows about this and the warranty will be voided if they find out.
> Because the Euforia is not designed for the mod socket and there have already been failures.
> With the mod socket, you should not go beyond 7 amps.
> ...


@Deleeh your points are well taken. However, using a non-standard tube such as KT-88 (1.6A versus 2.5A for 6080) certainly does not require one to exceed the amperage limit. In any case, thank you for a helpful reply and happy listening!


----------



## incredulousity

LoryWiv said:


> @Deleeh your points are well taken. However, using a non-standard tube such as KT-88 (1.6A versus 2.5A for 6080) certainly does not require one to exceed the amperage limit. In any case, thank you for a helpful reply and happy listening!


Also, anyone with any sense uses external power for any situation which would even approach the maximum factory specifications for heater current.


----------



## elrey

Hello all,
I have a question. Which power conditioner is good. I am looking for one that is not more expensive than the euforia. Also, are those $100 models (ie, Furman PST-6) good? Or are those just $100 power strips?

Thanks


----------



## ThanatosVI

elrey said:


> Hello all,
> I have a question. Which power conditioner is good. I am looking for one that is not more expensive than the euforia. Also, are those $100 models (ie, Furman PST-6) good? Or are those just $100 power strips?
> 
> Thanks


The PS Audio stellar p3 is quite good and should be a little less expensive than the Euforia in the US.
I use it myself and am very happy with it.

The extremely cheap Filters usually strip dynamics and should be avoided.
For ~1k the Audioquest  Niagara 1200 or the entry options from Ansuz are worth a consideration if one wants to stay on the cheaper side of things.


----------



## Ichos

elrey said:


> Hello all,
> I have a question. Which power conditioner is good. I am looking for one that is not more expensive than the euforia. Also, are those $100 models (ie, Furman PST-6) good? Or are those just $100 power strips?
> 
> Thanks


After testing a lot of stuff, I have settled with the iFi power station as the most value for money, least compromises solution.


----------



## LoryWiv

Although not inexpensive the Furman Elite-15 Pfi has worked very well for me.
​


----------



## jonathan c

LoryWiv said:


> Although not inexpensive the Furman Elite-15 Pfi has worked very well for me.
> ​


That is the one in my system as well - going on four years. The Furman Elite was designed by Garth Powell who now heads power / conditioning for Audioquest.


----------



## OctavianH

Even this small one is great, I use it for 2-3 years already.


----------



## Simple Man

Ichos said:


> After testing a lot of stuff, I have settled with the iFi power station as the most value for money, least compromises solution.


+1


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Did the devices you mentioned really make a difference?

I use the Taga Harmony Pf 1000 and found that it lost some of its dynamics compared to a normal one.
The Furutech socket made the most difference to me after I replaced the old socket that was painted over.


----------



## Henrim (Nov 2, 2021)

I auditioned the susvara, hollly moly it sounded so good. I never really knew what natural timbre really was, at least for strings.
It was a shame they didn't have a he1000se cos I think I'll save up for it if that can do 90% of what the susvara can do (but with significantly less power, its 96dB efficient instead of 83dB)

While dealing with upgraditus I decided a tube swap was due. I discovered KT88 as drivers and KT77 as powers is really good! The hum goes down a lot with time, I just need to be patient - I think it settles at the lowest level at around 3-5 hours or so. It's still there with the Utopia, but it's tolerable.

But damn! This combo makes the Utopia sound way more natural. The biggest standout is the harmonies, they seem to vibrate and shimmer - it's really beautiful! The treble is also more nimble and less peaky than the stock tubes.

Most songs from this album demonstrate the effect, but this one stands out:




Track: Violin Concerto in B Minor, RV 387: III. Allegro
Artist: Le Concert de la Loge & Julien Chauvin   
Album: Vivaldi: Concerti per violino VIII "Il teatro"


----------



## connieflyer

Henrim, I used that combo awhile ago and found those tubes to be excellent.  I used the tubes opposite to you.  KT77 as drivers and KT88 as powers.  Found it worked so well I used them for over four months that way.  Never had a hum with these tubes. Good luck


----------



## connieflyer

I have been using the Furman conditioner, this one https://www.amazon.com/Furman-Elite...s=Furman&qid=1635854078&s=electronics&sr=1-10 for the headphone equipment as I plug six pieces of equipment in.  I like this as it not only gives me a voltage readout, but a current draw for all equipment.  For the main music system I use this Furman,  https://www.amazon.com/Furman-Elite...s=Furman&qid=1635854078&s=electronics&sr=1-16.  I have had several power outages this year and the equipment all came through fine.

​


----------



## ThanatosVI

Feliks will announce "something new" at this Show

https://duneblue.com/portfolio_page/iear-show-2021-preview-dune-blue/


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Feliks will announce "something new" at this Show
> 
> https://duneblue.com/portfolio_page/iear-show-2021-preview-dune-blue/


Yes, the 300B headphone amp. Will release mid December . Price around 6K EUR


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Yes, the 300B headphone amp. Will release mid December . Price around 6K EUR


Interested in that one, even if I can't afford it any time soon...


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Interested in that one, even if I can't afford it any time soon...


"we will launch end this year a new flagship amp with 8watt of power, driven by 300B tubes, fully balanced that will be focused on these super dificult low impedance/low sensitivity headphones out there. Price will be significantly above Euforia but yes it’s a different beast…"

"It will have 3 selectable audio sources (1x XLR + 2x RCA) and it will have 3 different level of impedance headphones selector (low-mid-hi)"

"It will use also 2x 6SN7 (specificially CV181 by Psvane), we found it a great combination with 300B"

"We do consider PsVane for 300Bs but also other manufacturers (e.g. EH or Full Music), we’re finalizing testing and see what’s the best value for money in this setup"

"Elise, it’s the warmest amp we make. The new 300b is very very different signature"

"No official price on 300b but i expect the regular retail will be around 6000 Euro"

All the info I got so far in the last few weeks. Can't wait to see some pictures


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> "we will launch end this year a new flagship amp with 8watt of power, driven by 300B tubes, fully balanced that will be focused on these super dificult low impedance/low sensitivity headphones out there. Price will be significantly above Euforia but yes it’s a different beast…"
> 
> "It will have 3 selectable audio sources (1x XLR + 2x RCA) and it will have 3 different level of impedance headphones selector (low-mid-hi)"
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing.
Really curious about this amp, but 2021 was ridiculously expensive already.

Can't wait to see pictures.


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> Really curious about this amp, but 2021 was ridiculously expensive already.
> 
> Can't wait to see pictures.


I've been holding out upgrading to a Euforia AE in hopes to get a glimpse of the new amp but I'm affraid the price will be a little too much for me.

Anybody here knows if the AE plays well with the 20 Ohm LCD-X ?


----------



## Deleeh

Looks good visually.👍
If the sound is right, it's also good.
Ever thought about a mod cap?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> I've been holding out upgrading to a Euforia AE in hopes to get a glimpse of the new amp but I'm affraid the price will be a little too much for me.
> 
> Anybody here knows if the AE plays well with the 20 Ohm LCD-X ?


Yeah I am also a little surprised about the price.

Many months ago when I inquired about a 300B amp for both planars and electrostats, he was like "that Design would be over 7000€" which made it sound like 7000-8000€

Sure technically over 8000 etc is also over 7000€ but as it reads now the estat functionality would have been a bargain.

Probably the part shortage increased the price more than initially planned. 


Still cheaper than most other summit fi amps, really curious how it will perform in the end


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> really curious how it will perform in the end



If they follow in the footsteps of their current lineup then expect greatness, God level


----------



## tonyo442

hello, I am interested in the Euforia, has it been listened to with the HEDDphone headset, thank you


----------



## Deleeh

tonyo442 said:


> hello, I am interested in the Euforia, has it been listened to with the HEDDphone headset, thank you


Hello,
As long as you don't get below 20 ohm when using the standard tubes, any headphone will work with the Euforia.
Even if you use other tubes, it shouldn't make a big difference.
The Heddphone has 47 ohm so you are well above the minimum limit, I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

If you have any doubts and there is a possibility to listen to the Euforia I would consider it.
I read somewhere that the headphones are supposed to be electrostatic but have a 6.3 mm jack.


----------



## tonyo442

thank you


----------



## Simple Man

I had no problems using my 20 ohm Audeze XC on the Euforia.


----------



## Simple Man

Tommorow I'm gonna give the SE a try, see if it is worth the upgrade from the Gold.
Any tips or thoughts?


----------



## Deleeh

Simple Man said:


> Tommorow I'm gonna give the SE a try, see if it is worth the upgrade from the Gold.
> Any tips or thoughts?



Hmm well,
I think other caps were installed, and instead of silver something else was wired and overall a bit more power.

It's a matter of taste whether you like the normal Euforia or the AE.
And the price is justified.
I don't think so when you see the interior in the photos and look at what the caps cost and compare them with what is available on the market.
Is it worth saving the money and just replacing the caps on the normal Euforia with better ones?
The effort would be minimal on the 6Sn7 socket.
With the film capacitors rather less, but it would not be necessary to change them.

Ultimately, it depends on how satisfied you are with the normal version and which headphones you intend to listen to with it.

Don't get me wrong, the Euforia is still great.
If you have heard the difference between the normal version as it comes from the factory and one where the capacitors have only been changed, it shows that there is still potential in it.


----------



## Simple Man

Thanks for your thoughts.
I understand completly what you mean. I also have my doubts. Price gap is big.
this is the reason why I want to compare them side by side, If the Anni is really sounding better in a way I like it, I'll go for that. 
But  when it is hardly to hear I go for the normal one.


----------



## Renexx (Nov 3, 2021)

If you start buying and rolling tubes the extra costs for the AE will be your least problem 💸

Most good 6sn7 and 6as7g pairs costs 200$ or more. Holy grail💡  800$ or more.

You could save some money by buying stock Euphoria without stock tubes or buy a used model here on Headfi classified.
Mostly you get a good deal and maybe even with some NOS tubes included.

You will enjoy NOS tubes more than the stock ones.


----------



## Simple Man

I want to buy the Euforia first, anni or gold. It will be a new one from my favorite shop. 
The owner took a lot of time and effort to help me so I rather pay a bit more. 
Rolling tubes can take a while but honestly….😉
So, soon I’ll come back for advises in this. 
First an Euforia.


----------



## Simple Man

Btw, extra money is maybe in better caps, silver and some better other components but also in the shiny paint job which I do like a lot.


----------



## mordy

Renexx said:


> If you start buying and rolling tubes the extra costs for the AE will be your least problem 💸
> 
> Most good 6sn7 and 6as7g pairs costs 200$ or more. Holy grail💡  800$ or more.
> 
> ...


I do want to point out that it is not necessary to buy super expensive tubes to enjoy good sound and enjoyable listening. 
The reason the manufacturer cannot offer better sounding New Old Stock (NOS) tubes is that these tubes are simply not available in the quantitites needed for extended production. You, as the consumer, only need two pairs, whereas the manufacturer has to buy new production tubes to get the numbers needed.
For suggestions on which tubes to try, there is a lot of material on the Feliks threads.


----------



## Alu

I've been using the AE (with stock tubes, I will eventually tube roll later down the line, but I feel like I want to get a lot more familiar with the stock sound first) with the old but trusty HD650 for a few days now (since my Utopes are being repaired - pleasedontbeadriverfailure) and my God the Sennheisers are incredible with this - the Utopia still has the edge for me, but whether it's a 3000 pound edge is obviously up to each individual to determine for themselves.
The fact that they're 300 GBP headphones is frankly absurd in combination with this amp, so if you have these lying around I would recommend just giving them a shot.
If I wasn't addicted to spending money to make myself feel better I would definitely stick to the HD650 and call it a day.
Do note that I'm using a Forza-Audio cable with them.

I've also given in again and bought myself a pair of ZMF Verites Closed, meaning that my finances are truly back in the eternal quicksand of the audio world, but on the other hand the Euforia has absolutely reignited my passion with this hobby - I think it's probably the nicest upgrade I've ever gotten up to now.

Something tells me I'd probably enjoy the Empyrean as well.
And by something I mean people saying they're really good on this amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Alu said:


> Something tells me I'd probably enjoy the Empyrean as well.


I strongly encourage you to try them


----------



## MHLC

Wow, I just got my Euforia and must say I was expecting more tube noises.  I wouldn't call it quiet but it is way better than my gen1 wa22.


----------



## LoryWiv

Simple Man said:


> I want to buy the *Euforia first, anni or gold*. It will be a new one from my favorite shop.
> The owner took a lot of time and effort to help me so I rather pay a bit more.
> Rolling tubes can take a while but honestly….😉
> So, soon I’ll come back for advises in this.
> First an Euforia.


What is the "gold" referring to? To my knowledge the Euforia only comes in original model nd Anniversary Edition.

Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> What is the "gold" referring to? To my knowledge the Euforia only comes in original model nd Anniversary Edition.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying.


The Euforia "Gold" is a regular Euforia with PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold”  Tubes.
Earlier versions had the PsVane "silver" tubes to my knowledge


----------



## JBOOGIE86

What's the best for the Verite Closed between Feliks amps line up?


----------



## MacMan31

Henrim said:


> I auditioned the susvara, hollly moly it sounded so good. I never really knew what natural timbre really was, at least for strings.
> It was a shame they didn't have a he1000se cos I think I'll save up for it if that can do 90% of what the susvara can do (but with significantly less power, its 96dB efficient instead of 83dB)
> 
> While dealing with upgraditus I decided a tube swap was due. I discovered KT88 as drivers and KT77 as powers is really good! The hum goes down a lot with time, I just need to be patient - I think it settles at the lowest level at around 3-5 hours or so. It's still there with the Utopia, but it's tolerable.
> ...



That looks awesome with the big tubes. I really want one of Feliks Audio's amps.


----------



## Simple Man

MacMan31 said:


> That looks awesome with the big tubes. I really want one of Feliks Audio's amps.


Be sure you listen to them! !
Serious differenes between them.


----------



## MacMan31

Simple Man said:


> Be sure you listen to them! !
> Serious differenes between them.



Differences between the amps or the tubes? I know that different tubes can change the sound.


----------



## Simple Man

MacMan31 said:


> Differences between the amps or the tubes? I know that different tubes can change the sound.


I can only judge between the amps. But I understood both Euforia's use the same tubes.
I was lucky enough my suplier offered me to listen to the Elise and both Euforias at the same sesion.


----------



## MacMan31

Simple Man said:


> I can only judge between the amps. But I understood both Euforia's use the same tubes.
> I was lucky enough my suplier offered me to listen to the Elise and both Euforias at the same sesion.



Oh okay. I'm on the Feliks Audio website. I see now there are two versions. For my budget I'd have to go with either the Elise or Echo MKII.


----------



## Deleeh

MacMan31 said:


> Oh okay. I'm on the Feliks Audio website. I see now there are two versions. For my budget I'd have to go with either the Elise or Echo MKII.


Hello,
The Echo got an update at the beginning of the year and the Elise in the middle of the summer.
No one will be angry if it doesn't become an Euforia.
With the Elise you would be more flexible with the tubes than with the Echo.
There is almost nothing for the Echo.
That's actually all you need to know.

But otherwise, as far as the Euforia and Elise are concerned, you must have heard the standard tubes if you are not familiar with them.
For tube connoisseurs it is not a must have to go for the standard tubes if you know there are some that might fit better or know your preferences.

But both are not planar headphone compatible on the amps if you ever want to do that.
The Euforia, on the other hand, is only limited.


----------



## flea22

Hey guys

I never got the stock tubes with the euforia, but now want some cheap coke bottle shaped 6as7 tubes for backup. 

What would be a good buy that is easy to obtain?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello 
Which 6AS7G tubes are these supposed to be?
I don't like the tubes because they mask some of the details compared to the 6080 tubes.
The only good 6AS7G is the Western Electric Wa470 or whatever it is called, unfortunately it has become very rare and expensive if you can still find it.

The only good 6080 that comes close to the 6080 Mullard is the Sylvania, which has also remained at a reasonable price.
Which tubes do you actually have in the 6SN7 socket and which headphones?


----------



## Renexx

flea22 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I never got the stock tubes with the euforia, but now want some cheap coke bottle shaped 6as7 tubes for backup.
> 
> What would be a good buy that is easy to obtain?



RCA 6as7g or RCA 6as7ga come  cheap but surely don't offer the most sound quality.

Are you only looking for easy to obtain ? How about 6080s.

Best deal might be 5998 for overall sound quality. Get these and enjoy the sound.


----------



## Deleeh

I have the Rca there,
It is indeed not quite as good as the Svetlana.
It has a great warm sound with a nice mid and treble range.
And it would actually be good if it didn't mask the details.
And she is also a bit more distant from the stage, which also explains why she masks details.

The Svetlana is not quite as warm and a bit brighter, less warm, strangely enough a bit closer to the stage but also masks.
I eventually found out why it masks.

I actually only use it for burning in 6Sn7 tubes or something else.
I don't really use them for listening, but I do now because I've changed something and both are not bad with the pairing.
But I still need some time to report on it.
What I have changed has already contributed to the Euforia getting along better with the 6AS7G.

I would definitely go for 6080 or 5998 if there are any that are OK.
5998 is slowly becoming scarce as well.


----------



## connieflyer

I have used the RCA 6 as 7 tubes as well. I found them to be better than the stock tubes that came with the Elise and euphoria. I've used several 6080 and found those pretty good sometimes better than the 6 a S7 but they do run hot. I had the Tung Sol 5998 and use those for quite a while and those are like the best of the pairings. I sold those two a member here a year or more ago. I found other tubes Tubi better. So far after many years with the Felix amplifiers I have found the best two sets for myself. Those being a quad or six pack of gu 50


----------



## flea22

Thanks guys, might just get some Svetlana as back ups. I am using western 421a with mullard ecc32 tubes atm, but I also want to use the euforia for gaming and don't want to burn through good tubes when gaming.


----------



## MHLC

Hello,
Does anyone happen to have experience with the following dacs and the Euforia?
Doge 7 and RME ADI-2 

I have a Doge7 on order that I'm looking to replace my RME ADI-2 currently paired w/ a dragon L3 and use the RME w/ the Euforia since my current dac is the topping d50s. Now I am thinking of just leaving the RME with the dragon and pairing the Doge7 w/ the Euforia.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Now also available in Europe for us Europeans.
> And a lot cheaper to get than over the ponds.
> The first link are the ones I have had since March this year.
> ...


Thanks, I will buy them again in Germany instead of China. One needs to know: the Elite they are too big to be side by side, you have to lift one up with socket savers


----------



## Yoram Diamand

tonyo442 said:


> hello, I am interested in the Euforia, has it been listened to with the HEDDphone headset, thank you


Good question, I read Hedd is not easy to drive, and therefore not advised.


----------



## Deleeh

@MHLC 
I didn't like the Rme in terms of operation and the internal amplifier wasn't to my taste either.
Unfortunately I don't know the other Dac's.

@Yoram Diamand 

I also have a socketsaver on it, unfortunately it sometimes causes a hum. I was able to remedy the situation by swapping the tubes with the socket saver.
It's actually tight but it fits, you still have 3-5 mm of space between them. I have had it plugged in for a long time without the socket saver and have had no problems with it.
The Linlai get warm but not hot like some 6080 or 6AS7G.
Ideally, a saver that raises the tube a few millimetres, max. 5-7 mm, would also keep the hum under control and increase the space between them in the middle due to its extravagant tube shape.

The price in Europe is currently better than in China or Canada. I definitely overpaid when I grossed it up. But they weren't available in Europe at the time, I have to say.



Tr


----------



## Henrim

Renexx said:


> Maybe tungsol/cetron 7236 is quite neutral but a little rare to find. Since you like bright tubes it might be the best choice. No big soundstage.
> 
> Tungsol 5998 has  overall best technicalities in every aspect and is neutral to my ears. Maybe already on the warm side for you.
> Use Sylvania VT-231 as driver for an airy and neutral presentation. Wide soundstage and nice detail retrieval.



These VT-231 arrived from the US, god damn they're everything I'm after, thanks a lot Renexx!! Airy, detailed and spacious. The RCA 6as7g arrived too, I like the pairing with the VT-231 as far as tonality is concerned, but... I like a bit more bite. My favourite pairing so far is the KT88 as powers and VT-231 as drivers. It has all those amazing qualities I mentioned while getting the bass under control. I found the KT77 and VT-231 a bit fatiguing. 

I bought a qutest as well so it'll be interesting how that changes things. Also tempted to chuck a topping in the mix...


----------



## Renexx

Henrim said:


> These VT-231 arrived from the US, god damn they're everything I'm after, thanks a lot Renexx!! Airy, detailed and spacious. The RCA 6as7g arrived too, I like the pairing with the VT-231 as far as tonality is concerned, but... I like a bit more bite. My favourite pairing so far is the KT88 as powers and VT-231 as drivers. It has all those amazing qualities I mentioned while getting the bass under control. I found the KT77 and VT-231 a bit fatiguing.
> 
> I bought a qutest as well so it'll be interesting how that changes things. Also tempted to chuck a topping in the mix...


Your welcome.

Did you manage to get you hands on a pair of 5998?
Those are the best overall power tubes for this amp.


----------



## Henrim

Renexx said:


> Your welcome.
> 
> Did you manage to get you hands on a pair of 5998?
> Those are the best overall power tubes for this amp.


Nah, 600 USD seems like a lot for something which will be discarded after 2000 hours (or there abouts?)

Would you say best out of all those that use adapters too? I’m happy to buy some adapters, although external heaters is a step too far for me lol


----------



## JTbbb

Henrim said:


> Nah, 600 USD seems like a lot for something which will be discarded after 2000 hours (or there abouts?)
> 
> Would you say best out of all those that use adapters too? I’m happy to buy some adapters, although external heaters is a step too far for me lol


Keep your ear to the ground and you should easily snag a pair of 5998’s for 350 USD, or thereabouts.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

JTbbb said:


> Keep your ear to the ground and you should easily snag a pair of 5998’s for 350 USD, or thereabouts.


At Woo 900 dollar


----------



## Deceneu808

Yoram Diamand said:


> At Woo 900 dollar


Woo bought a batch from Langrex UK a few months ago. They had like 20+ tubes all new in original box for 250usd a piece. Probably got them even lower and now they are selling them for 900 a pair... Need I say more...


----------



## OctavianH

I sold recently 2 pairs of Tung Sol 5998 at 300 EUR/pair. Keep your eyes on Classifieds people.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello 
For the money that some people want for the tubes.
It makes more sense to invest in better capacitors to be honest.
Vcap sells the last TfTf capacitors, otherwise the CuTF are not wrong.

The exchange is worth more than spending the tube set for rare tubes.


----------



## OctavianH

Well, I partially agree with you. You exchange those caps once. I switch between different sound flavors several times per week. And honestly, no combination is all the time the best, it depends on the recording, it depends on the mood and so on. I have no idea which is the right one, I enjoy several "points of view" which several tube combos are showing me. We were not in the same room with the band, when they recorded. We only hear the vision of a sound engineer or the tuning our own equipment for the songs we love. I prefer to have the flexibility. And tube rolling helps me to do that.


----------



## MHLC

Deleeh said:


> @MHLC
> I didn't like the Rme in terms of operation and the internal amplifier wasn't to my taste either.
> Unfortunately I don't know the other Dac's.
> 
> ...


I agree, I'm not a huge fan of the RME's amp but love the built in eq functions however, I find myself not really using it that often.

Sometimes I regret not buying the qutest instead.


----------



## Henrim

If only the RME's amazing functionality could be used as a pure digital solution, i.e if it had digital outs.

You might be able to find a qutest second hand for a good price, they come up often now. I got mine for $1400 AUD, they retail for $2500 here so not the best deal ever but good enough! It arrives today


----------



## Deleeh

The Rme is actually not bad.
It offers loudness at the push of a button, which no other dac/amp has offered so far.
The same with the treble and bass.

What I didn't like at all was the sloppy, terrible menu navigation, not intuitive, neither user-friendly nor clear.
The sound of the Dac is certainly subjective but I didn't like it either, everything was stiff and unmusical for me, the details just come and go instead of fading out as an example.
And the support on the phone was a real ass.
The price was not worth it for me, not worth 1000€.
A maximum of 600€ is still generous.

Also the Eq setting is simply overloaded and confusing for a layman.
I rightly sent it back and bought the Singxer Sda 2 where I am very happy.
For the fact that the Rme is a German product, it is just badly spoken for me, even if it has a small fan community.
Dac's and amplifiers are as debatable as bad taste in music.😊

I really see the Rme more for studio applications than for music listening and nerds who are into that kind of thing.
It's certainly very good for that.

 In the outtest, you hear mostly good things, but also failures and mostly bad support, which is regrettable.
For the money, there simply has to be more.


----------



## Renexx (Nov 10, 2021)

I had the RME and sold it since I got the Qutest for a cheap price.

The RME is very good all in one unit with a small footprint and outstanding versatility.
 I can't understand any complains about the amp section. It did a decent job for my ZMF Aeolus and I could barely spot a difference when I got the Euphoria with stock tubes.

The Qutest gave my Euphoria a nice and deep 3D staging that surrounds you which was wide, flat and infront of you on the RME.
Better instrument seperation and
Treble was more relaxed on the Qutest.

A holo audio R2R DAC would be interesting to listen with the Euphoria. But so far I'm quite satisfied with my combo.


----------



## Deceneu808

Oh man, two days left until the big reveal


----------



## Ichos

Deceneu808 said:


> Oh man, two days left until the big reveal


What big reveal?


----------



## Deceneu808

Ichos said:


> What big reveal?


The new 300B amp. It looks beautiful


----------



## Henrim

You’ve seen photos? Can you please share a link?


----------



## Deceneu808

Henrim said:


> You’ve seen photos? Can you please share a link?


Sorry I can't. Not yet. Official announcement coming this week. It's a very stand out design, very "organic" looking  Name also begins with E. What I can say is that they will use golden Psvane 6SN7s and Full Music 300B power tubes. Alien head shaped bottles


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Sorry I can't. Not yet. Official announcement coming this week. It's a very stand out design, very "organic" looking  Name also begins with E. What I can say is that they will use golden Psvane 6SN7s and Full Music 300B power tubes. Alien head shaped bottles


My wallet is not strong enough 
I really look forward to the 300B announcement


----------



## Renexx

I think those 300B tubes are quite rare and really expensive aswell 🤑


----------



## ThanatosVI

Renexx said:


> I think those 300B tubes are quite rare and really expensive aswell 🤑


Actually there are quite a few great new production 300B tubes for different price points.

Probably the tube type that suffers the least from drying NOS amounts


----------



## Renexx (Nov 11, 2021)

Well I'm not impressed by new production types for 6sn7 and the power tubes on the Euphoria make a big impact on the sound. 
So I will be worried about that in the new amp.


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> My wallet is not strong enough
> I really look forward to the 300B announcement


Euphony? 😁


----------



## Deceneu808

JTbbb said:


> Euphony? 😁


You got the last letter but not Euphony


----------



## JTbbb

Deceneu808 said:


> You got the last letter but not Euphony


Euphoniously 👍😀


----------



## Alu

Eulogy? Because it's going to bury everything else? 
I probably shouldn't work in marketing.

I recently got the ZMF Verite Closed (Leopardwood) due to some recommendations, and even though I'd like to listen to the headphones a bit longer in general before saying "this is the bee's knees" or "this is garbage" - I'd just like to say that it's without question a fantastic headphone that is making me very happy, also (or maybe especially?) on this amp (again, stock tubes).
I can't quite believe that this is a closed design - it sounds absolutely gloriously spacious with the Auteur Hybrids - I want to try other pads, but I'm going to stick with these for now (will get used to the current sound and then try Universe and Lambskin Auteurs, but I don't really feel like losing what I have right now).

It's also really nice and warm and having used the Utopia for so long (not long enough on the Euforia though - only a bit) I kind of forgot what a slightly more cozy sound feels like - I was thinking that I'd still primarily use the Utopia, but there's a nice intimacy you have with closed headphones that is obviously lost with something as open as the Utopia - as I can almost hear my surroundings BETTER with the Focals on my head - so both are going to be used rigorously.

This thing also has bass for days, the lower registers are extremely exciting and it just generally sends shivers down my back.

These are going to be a permanent fixture in my lineup and I almost want to tune my setup around these specifically, just because I like them so much.
I would perhaps look at the many threads where Zach chimed in to recommend specific tubes - but that's for the future as well.

Also just looking at the ZMF designs I'm blow away at how special they're making their products look and I almost want to catch 'em all.


----------



## Deceneu808

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-envy.960600/


----------



## Henrim

I've been ABing the Qutest and the Yggdrasil GS with the Euforia & Utopia.

The biggest difference is the Qutest is far less warm. The Yggy GS and Euforia have a particularly warm synergy, with full & loose bass. (This didn't happen with the yggy GS -> 789, and I think 789 and Euforia are both neutral...?) 

The Qutest is more detailed, sounds cleaner with better depth imaging to my ears. *However*! The yggy sounds so much more engaging, everything is looser but then it mixes together and the harmonies vibrate and shimmer. It's so unique - I wish you could all hear it!

Anyway, I think I'll still sell the Yggy, the downsides outweigh the good I believe. I think a higher end denafrips might have the best of both worlds, when funds permit, but in the mean time I'll see how far I can get with the tube rolling .

The Qutest -> Euforia with stock tubes sounds good, but a bit too solid state, now I'm after something more euphonic, with a touch of warm magic. (The sylvania VT-231 was an excellent match with the yggy, but now it sounds too bright )

Those LinLai's look like a good bet - and I'm keeping my eye out for a cheap 5998 pair.


----------



## Deleeh

Henrim said:


> I've been ABing the Qutest and the Yggdrasil GS with the Euforia & Utopia.
> 
> The biggest difference is the Qutest is far less warm. The Yggy GS and Euforia have a particularly warm synergy, with full & loose bass. (This didn't happen with the yggy GS -> 789, and I think 789 and Euforia are both neutral...?)
> 
> ...


Hello,
Before you buy the Ares2, you might want to check out the Mhdt Labs Atlantis.
That would be the R2R Dac for me.
Personally I'm looking at the Atlantis and the Orchid and they both seem very good and I can't decide which one to get next year.

The Ares seems okay but has two three little things in it that aren't supposed to be so great.
You'll have to read up on it in the Ares thread.

Just as a tip.
I have noticed that the Euforia reacts differently to Dacs, but in a positive way.


----------



## Henrim

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Before you buy the Ares2, you might want to check out the Mhdt Labs Atlantis.
> That would be the R2R Dac for me.
> Personally I'm looking at the Atlantis and the Orchid and they both seem very good and I can't decide which one to get next year.
> ...


Cheers Deelah, I looked into those DACs, they look very intriguing and analogue & musical sounding, but I read some reports say the bass is a bit loose and they’re not super detailed. Maybe one of their higher end DACs solves those ‘issues’

https://darko.audio/2010/08/mhdt-paradisea-nos-tube-dac/

I’ll probably get a secondhand denafrips Venus II if it comes up cheap, the reports I read suggested it has an organic sound with bass control and detail. (Perhaps not as organic as the mhdt, who knows!)


----------



## connieflyer

I received an email from Lukasz today, and he said it was alright to share these photos that have not been shared yet.  Also share this in his email to me, "
The amplifier will have scheduled launch in late December, with a few reviews hopefully published around that time, working on it. Price will be quite a bit over AE Euforia, but it’s a very different segment and proposition for people who have very hard, demanding to drive headphones, like the Susvara/HE6/Abbyss etc. We still see Euforia/AE as really amazing option providing strong value for money to people with more classical headphones (dynamic or more sensitive planars). Also we never had a balanced amplifier with so much power before, so here we go , we take a step into a new territory. "

The photos look very interesting and knowing the workmanship and pride that this company builds into it's equipment, I am sure this will be another great product in their line up.  I have had many interesting emails with Lukasz over the years, I started with the Elise and Euforia and now with the AE version, could not be happier with these and know the craftmanship that his father always maintained in the amps he built.  Enjoy.


----------



## ThanatosVI

connieflyer said:


> I received an email from Lukasz today, and he said it was alright to share these photos that have not been shared yet.  Also share this in his email to me, "
> The amplifier will have scheduled launch in late December, with a few reviews hopefully published around that time, working on it. Price will be quite a bit over AE Euforia, but it’s a very different segment and proposition for people who have very hard, demanding to drive headphones, like the Susvara/HE6/Abbyss etc. We still see Euforia/AE as really amazing option providing strong value for money to people with more classical headphones (dynamic or more sensitive planars). Also we never had a balanced amplifier with so much power before, so here we go , we take a step into a new territory. "
> 
> The photos look very interesting and knowing the workmanship and pride that this company builds into it's equipment, I am sure this will be another great product in their line up.  I have had many interesting emails with Lukasz over the years, I started with the Elise and Euforia and now with the AE version, could not be happier with these and know the craftmanship that his father always maintained in the amps he built.  Enjoy.


I love the design. Hope to see the different wood options soon.
Looking forward to some reviews


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Dear Yoram,  The HiFiMAN Arya Stealth and Feliks Audio Euforia is a very nice combination. The spaciousness, speed and naturalness of the Arya, goes very well with the naturalness of the Euforia.    Kind regards, Dune Blue, (importer Hifiman and OTL Euforia in the Netherlands)


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> I received an email from Lukasz today, and he said it was alright to share these photos that have not been shared yet.  Also share this in his email to me, "
> The amplifier will have scheduled launch in late December, with a few reviews hopefully published around that time, working on it. Price will be quite a bit over AE Euforia, but it’s a very different segment and proposition for people who have very hard, demanding to drive headphones, like the Susvara/HE6/Abbyss etc. We still see Euforia/AE as really amazing option providing strong value for money to people with more classical headphones (dynamic or more sensitive planars). Also we never had a balanced amplifier with so much power before, so here we go , we take a step into a new territory. "
> 
> The photos look very interesting and knowing the workmanship and pride that this company builds into it's equipment, I am sure this will be another great product in their line up.  I have had many interesting emails with Lukasz over the years, I started with the Elise and Euforia and now with the AE version, could not be happier with these and know the craftmanship that his father always maintained in the amps he built.  Enjoy.


Very nice looking indeed. But why are the 6sn7’s recessed? People will undoubtedly want to use NOS tubes, some being 70 years old. Going to have to get hold of that glass!


----------



## ThanatosVI

JTbbb said:


> Very nice looking indeed. But why are the 6sn7’s recessed? People will undoubtedly want to use NOS tubes, some being 70 years old. Going to have to get hold of that glass!


Socket savers got you covered


----------



## JTbbb

ThanatosVI said:


> Socket savers got you covered


That’s true. But they can bring their own troubles. I wonder what the technical/engineering reasons were for recessing them?


----------



## Quince (Nov 16, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> Socket savers got you covered


Frankly, for something with that many conscious design decisions, that is an oversight and something that should have been solved in the drawing board. Unless there is any other explanation, of course.

Not everyone cares about daily tube rolling and consequent tube wear to justify socket savers, functionally or optically.


----------



## connieflyer

Looking at the picture, I don't see a problem getting a hold of the socket. There is enough of the socket to get your fingers on it, without pulling on the glass, which of course no one ever does. It is a design choice to be sure, and I for one like the fact that there is a small recess so that the less artistic part of the socket does not show.  For those that swap tubes out constantly, it is a minor learning curve.  Looking at my AE and then the photo, I much prefer the cleaner look of this new design. I think I am leaning towards purchasing the new amp, as over the years I have had so much enjoyment from Feliks products.   There attention to detail, and support both before the sale and after has been above what over the years I have found with other companies.  This amp is in another catagory of amps, the dual inputs and the use of different headphone connections as well as mulitple source inputs is a plus.  Also it is balanced amp with loads of power to drive headphones of more difficult demands.  Looking forward to the new reviews being posted.


----------



## Alu

Yesterday and today I noticed a bit of a barely audible buzzing that only occurrs every once in a while in the right channel of my headphones - so I thought I'd try switching the sides of the stock power tubes - and the buzzing switched sides (I didn't just try that immediately though, I first switched the device around to different plug sockets on my wall - which obviously didn't affect it).
One of the tubes actually also left a bit of a residue on the socket - a bronze looking hardish kind of material that I could scratch off.

Anyway, I'm going to assume I can still use the amp like this, because the buzzing is fairly infrequent and I cannot hear it while listening to music.
But I'm also now going to assume that it might be best to look for a replacement, earlier than I'd hoped for sure.
I read through the following post (which is pretty great for a tubenoob like me):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...-sheeps-clothing.831743/page-74#post-13283905

Among others of course, and I thought - oh the Tung Sol 5998 look nice.
Little did I know that I'd have to sell my second kidney for a matched pair.
I tried looking for others on that list, and while some seem to be kind of available, most of those look to be unobtanium.

If I'd want to stick with the stock PSVane drivers and would want a set that works well with Verite and Utopia (that doesn't cost as much as the amp itself), what would I be looking for?
I was searching for 6080 Mullards for instance, but the prices are wildly different on ebay:
One is 60GBP (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313579532378?epid=0&hash=item4902cbf05a:g:8aIAAOSwyWlg1cwY), another one is 200GBP (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265261975435?hash=item3dc2d8878b:g:Kw4AAOSwuWZhEpH4) - am I missing something?

I'd also like to stick to the tubes that are recommended in the manual itself, so 6AS7G, 6080, 5998, 6N5P, 6N5S, ECC230, 7236, CV2523.

I suppose I could also get a replacement set of the stock tubes, but I may as well get a very slight upgrade while I'm at it.


----------



## Renexx (Nov 18, 2021)

GEC 6080 should be available and the sound will be worth it. British, wide and slightly warm. Different and better than stock.

Try to buy some pairs of vt-231(maybe RCA/ Sylvania/ Kenrad) and you will start your journey in tube rolling and making your bank account empty.

That's my recommendation for some different tube flavours as a beginner.
Enjoy the sound ! 🎧


----------



## Alu

Renexx said:


> GEC 6080 should be available and the sound will be worth it. British, wide and slightly warm sound. Different and better than stock.
> 
> Try to buy some pairs of vt-231(maybe RCA/ Sylvania/ Kenrad) and you will start your journey in tube rolling and making your bank account empty.
> 
> Enjoy the sound ! 🎧


Thanks very much for replying!

As far as GECs go - would this be the one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2 ?
That doesn't seem too bad - I can work with that.

And the vt-231 - are those drivers?
I assume as long as "6SN7" is in the name they should be safe to use.


----------



## Renexx

Alu said:


> Thanks very much for replying!
> 
> As far as GECs go - would this be the one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2 ?
> That doesn't seem too bad - I can work with that.
> ...


Langrex UK is a trusted and good source for tubes. Theese are real deal GEC 6080.

VT-231 is the military issue of 6sn7 

Take a look at the 6sn7 and 6as7g/6080 threads here in the forum for general sound impressions. Also Google has alot of comparisons to offer.

All of these tubes are recommended by the manufacturer. 
My recommendations will be a great starting point and offer alot of sound quality for the money. Surely an improvement in over stock tubes.


----------



## Alu

Renexx said:


> Langrex UK is a trusted and good source for tubes. Theese are real deal GEC 6080.
> 
> VT-231 is the military issue of 6sn7
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your time - this is certainly the ideal jumping off point I was looking for. 

Jumping off into Bankruptcy that is of course.


----------



## Renexx

Alu said:


> Jumping off into Bankruptcy that is of course.


We share the same fade.
 My collection is complete already and now Feliks audio will release a new endgame  amp. 

This hobby is ridiculous. 💸


----------



## Renexx

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ecc32-cv181...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

These would be endgame for driver slot in your new amp. 😉💸  

Combine it with tungsol 5998 and never take a look for other tubes again. They seem to become harder to get these days.


----------



## Magol79

I hope Linlai would consider releasing a new production 5998.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Magol79 said:


> I hope Linlai would consider releasing a new production 5998.


Still waiting on their KT88-KT150 series.
Guess if someone would attempt 5998 then it's Linlai


----------



## Deleeh

Sometimes you have to be patient, especially with rare tubes or tubes that are becoming more and more rare.
The market is still there for the 5998, and sometimes the price goes down again when enough have appeared on the market.
This is often a game of chance.
I was even luckier with the second set of Mullards because they were new, not even burnt in properly and I got them at a good price.

Whether Linlai will bring out a 5998 is questionable, as it looks like they are more interested in producing common tubes first to make her brand bigger.
And to serve a broad spectrum of customers.
I would also be happy if Sophia Electric or someone else would bring out a 5998 that is suitable.

I know from Sophia Electric that they want to bring out another 6SN7 sometime next year.
From the sound of it, maybe even with a few updates.

I read that there are quite a few fakes of the Sylvania 6sn7 tube, which is really annoying. It give a page somewhere where you can recognise the fakes.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Magol79 said:


> I hope Linlai would consider releasing a new production 5998.


There is no adress to write to: please world make a brand new gold pin 5998 thanks and for only a few dollars the matched pair please. There is a hifishop owner habbit of chasing dreamers away: I do not want any dreamers in my shop. Nice to be amongst dreamers.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Henrim said:


> I've been ABing the Qutest and the Yggdrasil GS with the Euforia & Utopia.
> 
> The biggest difference is the Qutest is far less warm. The Yggy GS and Euforia have a particularly warm synergy, with full & loose bass. (This didn't happen with the yggy GS -> 789, and I think 789 and Euforia are both neutral...?)
> 
> ...


Does the Euforia lift the Utopia bass to a noticeable degree as is claimed (by Resolve, IIRC), because of impedance issues? I am considering getting a Euforia to drive the Focal Stellia and the HD800S.

Wondering how the Euforia will combine with the Stellia?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Has anyone tried the Final D8000 pro with the Euforia?


----------



## Henrim

Hi Sajid, yeah the bass quantity increases to a noticeable degree, especially the sub bass. Not to harman levels, but it's significant. 

With higher output impedance the Utopia gets more bass quantity and less bass control. Less bass control can be a good thing depending on your preference. The Utopia's bass sounded like a 6pack of abs on my friend's 789, it was fun for a bit but ultimately weird and distracting.

I tried the Utopia's on an amp with a few different output impedances to choose from, IMO 80ohm was too much and 32ohm was my favourite. I think the output impedence for the Euforia is 20ohm (I've read conflicting answers, it might depend on tubes but 20ohm is what 6moons quouted). 

But anyway! The Euforia and the Utopia synergise incredibly well, the bass is perfectly balanced IMO, just enough looseness to sound beautiful and organic, and more filled out. The sound stage is where the biggest improvement is, they go from sounding like a narrow headphone to a really wide pair.

I haven't tried the Stellia or HD800S on it, I've heard good things about the HD800S pairing though.


----------



## Henrim

What's your take on it @Alu ?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Henrim said:


> Hi Sajid, yeah the bass quantity increases to a noticeable degree, especially the sub bass. Not to harman levels, but it's significant.
> 
> With higher output impedance the Utopia gets more bass quantity and less bass control. Less bass control can be a good thing depending on your preference. The Utopia's bass sounded like a 6pack of abs on my friend's 789, it was fun for a bit but ultimately weird and distracting.
> 
> ...


Thank you @Henrim. I am considering building a second rig and considering a Yggy / Holo Spring + Euforia combo.


----------



## Henrim

Awesome. As you might've read in my previous comment, the Yggy GS and Euforia has a huge colouration. I read somewhere the newer Yggy A2 pairs well with Euforia so YMMV!


----------



## Henrim

While considering buying an expensive 5998, I’ve been wondering what other tubes are available with adapters. @mordy @connieflyer @incredulousity, you all have tried (and love!?) the GU50. How does this compare to the 5998 as powers? why is the 6 pack of GU50 so good?

Also, what is everything I need to get them working? Is it an expensive rig?


----------



## OctavianH (Nov 20, 2021)

Yoram Diamand said:


> There is no adress to write to: please world make a brand new gold pin 5998 thanks and for only a few dollars the matched pair please. There is a hifishop owner habbit of chasing dreamers away: I do not want any dreamers in my shop. Nice to be amongst dreamers.


A newly produced 5998 might not provide the same sound quality as the NOS ones. We have KT66, KT77 or KT88 reissued by russian or chinese manufacturers and they do not compare with GEC KT66/77/88. Of course, they might be decent, but do not expect Tung Sol 5998 NOS performance. For Euforia/Elise you do not need matched pairs, save your money.


----------



## Deleeh

Hmm, you can't say that either.
There are also very good tubes from new production.
The main thing will be the knowledge of what is needed and where it is needed.
You can see that quite well in the current boss of Linlai, who was at Ps Vane and Shuang and now has his own company.
Or Sophia Electric, which only offers a small range of tubes with the knowledge it has accumulated over the years.
This is worth much more and is more welcome in the scene than buying up a company that was an icon at the time and is now only bought because of its name.

Apart from tubes, inner values also play a role, especially with tube amplifiers.
Especially in the capacitor area, a lot has changed in the last 10 years, as well as in the power supply.
This is also a reason why the Euforia is so quiet.
So the components are just as important and decisive that even a tube that is considered less good can sound fantastic.


----------



## OctavianH

I do hope someone will make a very good 5998. But a nice article here:

Tubes: The Old Verses the New

I will put a small excerpt:



> Today there aren’t the same forces driving up tube quality—non of the stringent demands of the military or scientific research communities, nor is there the industrial infrastructure and pool of expertise: the boffins, chemists, physicists, metallurgists, skilled workers, etc required to make tubes to the same exacting standards, even if there was the will to do so. Tube manufacturers no longer jointly engage in serious research and development efforts with the academic community or military to refine and improve thermionic technology. There’s no chance of getting an apprenticeship with Mullard and studying an HNC to learn thermionics—those days are gone.
> 
> The prime mover dictating tube quality today is mainly cost, not quality—tube amp manufacturers and vendors will only pay so much for their tubes. And the market for tubes is tiny in comparison to the 1960s—it’s essentially the demand for domestic audio amplifiers that’s kept the Russian and Chinese factories alive. This is in no way intended to be a criticism of Russian and Chinese tube manufacturers. They are what they are—tubes made for today’s guitar and hi-fi industry and to this end they serve their purpose well, however they are not made from the finest materials nor is their construction up to the exacting standards of the tubes of yesteryear when the technology was at its zenith.


----------



## Alu (Nov 20, 2021)

Henrim said:


> What's your take on it @Alu ?



I cannot comment on the Stellia, since I've never heard it.

But the Euforia is a perfect match for the Utopia.
People used to comment a lot on the fact that the Focals are very sensitive to every piece of gear in your system, and that's absolutely true in my experience as well.
Making the jump to the Feliks amp was like buying a new headphone, making me realise that I hadn't even come close to realising the potential of the Utopia.
As previously mentioned, the soundstage increases tremendously - or even starts properly exisiting in the first place (coming from something like the Pathos Aurium).

I was actually quite shocked by that when I first heard it.
I didn't expect this at all, because even though you can read a ton of positive reviews that will reaffirm how good a piece of equipment is, they will ultimately always be full of hyperbolic statements that are not necessarily representitive of what you think a "dramatic" change might sound like.
In this case the perfomance increase is actually palpable.

Everything else is vastly superiour as well, including things like detail retrieval, which is already amazing on pretty decent gear.

In regards to bass: For me it makes it perfect - this is highly subjective though.
I've never been a huge basshead (even though I listen to a lot of alt hip-hop - go figure), but I can tell you that on something like my previous amp (Pathos), it was pretty anemic - and I only realise this in hindsight.
Now I feel like I finally actually have a real bass experience, and I'm not going back.

As far as the Yggdrasil goes, I can't really comment on it in comparison to any other DAC, as I've had this thing for years now (the A1 that is of course) and I'm not looking to change it - make of that what you will. 

Note that I generally do prefer sound that is more on the warm side, but I don't think that this combo necessarily makes it overly so.

EDIT: Also I received some GEC 6080s today, plugged them in and the infrequent buzz or hiss seems to have disappeared - I must have gotten one not so great stock power tube.


----------



## mordy

Alu said:


> I cannot comment on the Stellia, since I've never heard it.
> 
> But the Euforia is a perfect match for the Utopia.
> People used to comment a lot on the fact that the Focals are very sensitive to every piece of gear in your system, and that's absolutely true in my experience as well.
> ...


Don't worry about a new NOS tube making noise when trying it for the first time - after all you are waking it up after a 50-60 year sleep lol. It is not  uncommon at all, and usually the noise disappers - as you note.


----------



## mordy

Henrim said:


> While considering buying an expensive 5998, I’ve been wondering what other tubes are available with adapters. @mordy @connieflyer @incredulousity, you all have tried (and love!?) the GU50. How does this compare to the 5998 as powers? why is the 6 pack of GU50 so good?
> 
> Also, what is everything I need to get them working? Is it an expensive rig?


Personally I did not get to try the GU50 tubes yet, but maybe one day...
Hypnos1 and Connieflyer for sure have a lot of experience with this tube. It requires special sockets and adapters as well as a 12V power supply.


----------



## Alu

mordy said:


> Don't worry about a new NOS tube making noise when trying it for the first time - after all you are waking it up after a 50-60 year sleep lol. It is not  uncommon at all, and usually the noise disappers - as you note.


Oh no, the new tubes are not noisy at all - I was referring to the stock powers that actually had an issue in one of them, and I'm happy to report that that's gone with the GECs.


----------



## mordy

Alu said:


> Oh no, the new tubes are not noisy at all - I was referring to the stock powers that actually had an issue in one of them, and I'm happy to report that that's gone with the GECs.


OK - got it.


----------



## Simple Man

@Sajid Amit @Henrim 
I do agree with @Alu as far as I can. 
Great with the Utopia.
I'm not a basshead but I do love a good, controlled bass which I think the Euforias have.
One thing I need to mention: Don't go immediatly for the Euforia Gold without listening to the Anni as well.
The Anniversary convinced me to buy the Euforia, I'm not sure I would have bought the Gold.
Women voices like Cecilia Bartoli are so much smoother in my (!) eares.
I use the HD800s and Audeze CX
But it is all up to you.
Good luck.


----------



## Alu

Alu said:


> Oh no, the new tubes are not noisy at all - I was referring to the stock powers that actually had an issue in one of them, and I'm happy to report that that's gone with the GECs.



Cut to now - when starting the amp this afternoon I heard some odd noises - brought the headphones closer to my ears and heard a very loud buzzing - looks like one of the tubes blew or burned out or whatever you'd call it - there was no explosion happening so I assume it just fizzed out.

The seemingly affected tube also has black marks on the inside in two spots - but it does still light up (I didn't check for too long though because I don't want to tempt fate):

https://imgur.com/a/bCxUjyY (on the left)

I don't feel very lucky right about now, but because of the 14 days return window I'm going to see if I can have the tube replaced.
Did this ever happen to anyone else?
I never really read about many tube misfortunes here - with using the ones stated in the manual that is.


----------



## barontan2418 (Nov 21, 2021)

Alu said:


> Cut to now - when starting the amp this afternoon I heard some odd noises - brought the headphones closer to my ears and heard a very loud buzzing - looks like one of the tubes blew or burned out or whatever you'd call it - there was no explosion happening so I assume it just fizzed out.
> 
> The seemingly affected tube also has black marks on the inside in two spots - but it does still light up (I didn't check for too long though because I don't want to tempt fate):
> 
> ...


Since I started rolling tubes and I literally have several hundred,  I've only had one fail on me whilst in use. It's not a very frequent occurrence I'm glad to say. There have been several tubes of ebay that simply didn't work but that happens. Get the seller to replace or refund.


----------



## JTbbb

Alu said:


> Cut to now - when starting the amp this afternoon I heard some odd noises - brought the headphones closer to my ears and heard a very loud buzzing - looks like one of the tubes blew or burned out or whatever you'd call it - there was no explosion happening so I assume it just fizzed out.
> 
> The seemingly affected tube also has black marks on the inside in two spots - but it does still light up (I didn't check for too long though because I don't want to tempt fate):
> 
> ...


+1 on what barontan2418 says. Also, it sounds like you leave your headphones plugged in? It’s good practice to unplug after a session and plug back in after the amplifier has warmed up for a few minutes. Could save destroying a headphone.


----------



## Alu

JTbbb said:


> +1 on what barontan2418 says. Also, it sounds like you leave your headphones plugged in? It’s good practice to unplug after a session and plug back in after the amplifier has warmed up for a few minutes. Could save destroying a headphone.


Thanks very much for that advice!

Also going back to stock tubes I really feel like that microphonic issue I have with one of them is really less dramatic than I made it out to be in my head, but now of course I have a taste for better tubes.

Looking back on the one faulty GEC, I feel like it had a bit of light blackening on the inside already (especially compared to the other one), not quite as much as today after the incident though.
On the other hand I've seen some right horrific looking tubes that seem to be in use regularly by people.
Are there any definite visual faults that I should keep an eye out or is it really tube-dependant?


----------



## mordy

Alu said:


> Thanks very much for that advice!
> 
> Also going back to stock tubes I really feel like that microphonic issue I have with one of them is really less dramatic than I made it out to be in my head, but now of course I have a taste for better tubes.
> 
> ...


Sometimes the tube pins need cleaning - it could be that they don't make good contact.
Take a little penknife, scissors or whatever, and gently scrape the pins and check that there is no oxidation left. Also, switch the tubes around and see if the noise continues.
In addition to unplugging the headphones and letting the amp warm up a few minutes before plugging them in, it is a very good idea to start with an old sacrificial pair of headphones or cheap ones (what they give out on airlines etc). That way, if there is a real problem with loud pops and explosions, you will not blow out your drivers on the expensive headphones. Very often, if there is a problem with a tube, it happens on start-up.
Over the years I have had few problems with tubes, but as time goes on I have now at least a dozen tubes that gave out. Most of the casualties are tubes that did not work when they arrived, or stopped working right away. Then there are tubes that broke from dropping them on the floor (it happens); very few had a catastrophic failure after prolonged use, and I cannot say that I wore out a tube yet.
On a clear top tube a black spot only indicates that it is used and this is nothing to worry about.
But if the inside glass of the tube turns white instead of silver, the tube has lost it's vacuum and has to be relegated to the garbage bin.


----------



## Alu

mordy said:


> Sometimes the tube pins need cleaning - it could be that they don't make good contact.
> Take a little penknife, scissors or whatever, and gently scrape the pins and check that there is no oxidation left. Also, switch the tubes around and see if the noise continues.
> In addition to unplugging the headphones and letting the amp warm up a few minutes before plugging them in, it is a very good idea to start with an old sacrificial pair of headphones or cheap ones (what they give out on airlines etc). That way, if there is a real problem with loud pops and explosions, you will not blow out your drivers on the expensive headphones. Very often, if there is a problem with a tube, it happens on start-up.
> Over the years I have had few problems with tubes, but as time goes on I have now at least a dozen tubes that gave out. Most of the casualties are tubes that did not work when they arrived, or stopped working right away. Then there are tubes that broke from dropping them on the floor (it happens); very few had a catastrophic failure after prolonged use, and I cannot say that I wore out a tube yet.
> ...


I have multiple victims here than can be sacrificed in that case.

This is all pretty great advice by the way.

The issue did occurr immediately on start-up, which is pretty great, since that means that I don't believe any damage was done.
I then switched them around immediately and the buzz continued very loudly, but more loudly on the other side obviously, while it did seem to almost crossfeed slightly to the other channel though both times - without crossfeed being on.

The pins look fine and looking at pictures of white tubes online to compare, mine look to be both still nice, silvery and normal on top - I also wipe down the glass on the tubes with microfibre cloth, because I read somewhere that handling the glass can leave oil residue and cause damage as well (even on top of my dry as heck hands).

I'm going to get a replacement GEC, then see which one the problem child is and return it - even though I suspect it is the one that looks like it's been BBQed.


----------



## mordy

Alu said:


> I have multiple victims here than can be sacrificed in that case.
> 
> This is all pretty great advice by the way.
> 
> ...


Don't think that that handling the tubes with your fingers is dangerous for the tubes - a lot of old tubes come with all kinds of residue, stickers and grime and they work fine. The only glass bulbs I read about that you should not handle with your fingers are halogen automotive bulbs that get extremely hot and oily residue can damage the bulbs.
Another thing I practice regarding switching in and out headphones is a little extension cable that is permanently plugged into the amp. Instead of wearing out the connector in the amp I plug the hadphone cable into the extension. If the female plug in the little extension cable wears out it is much less expensive and much easier to change the extension cable than a worn out headphone plug in the amp. So far I had to change the extension once.


----------



## LoryWiv

mordy said:


> Sometimes the tube pins need cleaning - it could be that they don't make good contact.
> Take a little penknife, scissors or whatever, and gently scrape the pins and check that there is no oxidation left. Also, switch the tubes around and see if the noise continues.
> In addition to unplugging the headphones and letting the amp warm up a few minutes before plugging them in, it is a very good idea to start with an old sacrificial pair of headphones or cheap ones (what they give out on airlines etc). That way, if there is a real problem with loud pops and explosions, you will not blow out your drivers on the expensive headphones. Very often, if there is a problem with a tube, it happens on start-up.
> Over the years I have had few problems with tubes, but as time goes on I have now at least a dozen tubes that gave out. Most of the casualties are tubes that did not work when they arrived, or stopped working right away. Then there are tubes that broke from dropping them on the floor (it happens); very few had a catastrophic failure after prolonged use, and I cannot say that I wore out a tube yet.
> ...


As usual, @mordy  is right on cleaning pins, can be very helpful. In addition to scraping manually, some *deoxit* applied on a Q-tip can help as well. Also occasionally (every 3 months if I remeneber) I clean the adapter sockets same wau with *deoxit* on a Q-tip.


----------



## LoryWiv

At the risk of seeming (and being) unduly paranoid, I'm curious if low-strength magnets generate EMF / EMI to a degree that could impact tube amps. I'm exploring a new PC build and the case has a hinged door with magnetic latches as well as magnetic attachments for the dust filters top and bottom. Is this a concern?


----------



## Deleeh (Nov 22, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> At the risk of seeming (and being) unduly paranoid, I'm curious if low-strength magnets generate EMF / EMI to a degree that could impact tube amps. I'm exploring a new PC build and the case has a hinged door with magnetic latches as well as magnetic attachments for the dust filters top and bottom. Is this a concern?


Hello,
Yes, that's paranoid, .
I built a new PC at the beginning of the year and took the Be quiet 802 and everything is plugged in.
The magnets on their case are so small that it could not generate any Emf or Emi.

You should rather pay attention to 2 things.

The power supply is important and the second thing is to connect your dac to an external usb pcie card. this way you have a shorter signal path and better and safer transmission. And no long signal path that could possibly cause interference through the power supply.
This happens very often and that's why many people have to deal with jitter or other noises.

I used a Bequiet power supply to have peace and quiet and it is mainly designed for this, the Straight Power 11 is relatively good. If you are still undecided


----------



## Magol79

LoryWiv said:


> At the risk of seeming (and being) unduly paranoid, I'm curious if low-strength magnets generate EMF / EMI to a degree that could impact tube amps. I'm exploring a new PC build and the case has a hinged door with magnetic latches as well as magnetic attachments for the dust filters top and bottom. Is this a concern?


Short answer: No.


----------



## OctavianH

Someone said something about PC building? Just finished Saturday my GPU upgrade. Upss, yep longer than the case clearance states but we find always a solution.






Ah, this works better also as a video card holder because that "animal" has almost 2kg. LOL





Sorry for off topic guys, could not help myself.


----------



## ThanatosVI

All Feliks Audio Amps received a price increase.

Not surprising, but always sad when this happens


----------



## Alu (Nov 23, 2021)

A quick update on the tube (mis)adventure - got one replacement 6080 for free (wow btw), and this one works - so it was in fact one that gave up the ghost shortly after I got it - no damage occurred to anything - just seemed to sort of fail by having a massively loud constant buzz.
Hopefully this one lasts a bit longer than 2 days, because I can't wait to try it with the Sylvania 6sn7wgt that are coming my way as well (along with an additional V-231 Bad Boy). 
And have definitely learned a couple of lessons regarding NOS tubes thanks to the members here.

The hassle is ultimately still worth it though.

In other good news - my Utopia has finally been fixed (seemed to have a loose cable connection only, even got cleaned and tested by Focal technicians as a bonus for driver issues - so really cheap 50GBP fix).
Things are looking up again.

EDIT: I also noticed that the tubes I purchased were not in fact NOS - but just old used ones I assume (Grade 1 - not sure what that means, from a very reliable source though mind).


----------



## Melting735

My Euforia was still under repairing. I was lucky got a good deal on this AE version. Looks and sounds great. Love it!

I will probably do a side by side comparison once I get my original version back.


----------



## SlothRock

Never owned a tube headphone amp but have played guitar off and on for roughly 20 years and have owned 20+ tube guitar amps. Curious if, similar to my guitar amps, these headphone amps are prone to buzzing?

Ground loop is an obvious cause which I’ve had issues with many times with my guitar amps but another one is electrical interference being too close to routers/monitors/computers/etc. I ask because if I ever got a tube amp it’d be on my computer desk and would be concerned about this interference/noise while listening


----------



## Deleeh

SlothRock said:


> Never owned a tube headphone amp but have played guitar off and on for roughly 20 years and have owned 20+ tube guitar amps. Curious if, similar to my guitar amps, these headphone amps are prone to buzzing?
> 
> Ground loop is an obvious cause which I’ve had issues with many times with my guitar amps but another one is electrical interference being too close to routers/monitors/computers/etc. I ask because if I ever got a tube amp it’d be on my computer desk and would be concerned about this interference/noise while listening


Hello,
No, everything is dead quiet at Euforia.
The Tad 6SN7 tubes I use hum a little when nothing is running.
Would not be recommended.
As long as everything is earthed, you don't need to worry about it. What is important is the earthing of the PC if you use one.
It likes to transmit it to the Dac and then on.
The rest of the cables, etc., I mainly take care that they are shielded, everything else I don't care about.


----------



## Simple Man

Melting735 said:


> My Euforia was still under repairing. I was lucky got a good deal on this AE version. Looks and sounds great. Love it!
> 
> I will probably do a side by side comparison once I get my original version back.
> 
> +++++++++++++++++


I feel so sorry for you.
The day you say goodbye to this Anni and have to use your original again. 
It's a filthy trick to sell you the Anni .


----------



## Melting735

Simple Man said:


> I feel so sorry for you.
> The day you say goodbye to this Anni and have to use your original again.
> It's a filthy trick to sell you the Anni .


Chance is that I can keep this AE. I can't tell much about the sound difference yet, but I really like the glossy finish on the new version  

Although it has no warranty available, it has already been QCed by the previous owners. I only had quality issues with brand new items a few times like my Euforia, Conductor 3XR, but rarely with used items. It's probably what is called "infant mortality". If there was a manufacturing mistake, something usually would happen during the early life span.


----------



## LoryWiv

The Felik's amps. are so versatile. Here is my Elise with GEC 6V6G & Sylvania VT-115A, beautiful treble and mids I never achieved with 6AS7G / 6SN7.  I've now swapped out the GEC drivers for Ken-Rad 6F6G and bass quantity and quality is superb whilst preserving the beautiful treble of the Sylvania's. The amp is such a great platform for tube rolling.

I am considering Euforia OG or AE to continue the journey. One question I have about this upgrade is output impedance, reportedly about 20 ohms for Euforia versus 40-50 ohms for Elise. Would this make a meaningful difference in compatibility with moderate impedance headphones? The Focal Clear MG I use currently as daily driver are 55 ohm, and they sound great with Elise on most music but occasionally bass is a bit loose and treble a bit rolled off. I've read that this can be a byproduct of straying to far from the 'rule of eights" in which HP impedance should be at least 8x of the amps. output impedance.

I know high output impedance is a characteristic of all OTL's and LOVE their sound and responsiveness to tube rolling, but would welcome input as to whether Euforia OG or AE would be a better match for headphones in the 30-50 ohm impedance range versus Elise. What pairings have others used? Would love to benefit from your experiences!


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 28, 2021)

This is my current roll on AE. Please excuse the dust. 

Power: KT150/TS5998

Driver: KT88 

Do not try this at home without external power supply! @Deyan is your friend.

The KT150s add a solid and perhaps too well controlled bass, and some sub bass extension, at the expense of hollowed-out mid-bass and lower midrange. 

The WyWires platinum cable almost completely mitigates the negative effects. My chain is now so well behaved that cable differences are very easy to hear. I had low to no expectations for this cable, which was cheap and used, and also ugly compared to my favorite cables. The sonic benefits with the Meze Elite on this combination are almost scary. Cue blather about increased detail, holographic soundstage, etc…


----------



## Deceneu808

LoryWiv said:


> The Felik's amps. are so versatile. Here is my Elise with GEC 6V6G & Sylvania VT-115A, beautiful treble and mids I never achieved with 6AS7G / 6SN7.  I've now swapped out the GEC drivers for Ken-Rad 6F6G and bass quantity and quality is superb whilst preserving the beautiful treble of the Sylvania's. The amp is such a great platform for tube rolling.
> 
> I am considering Euforia OG or AE to continue the journey. One question I have about this upgrade is output impedance, reportedly about 20 ohms for Euforia versus 40-50 ohms for Elise. Would this make a meaningful difference in compatibility with moderate impedance headphones? The Focal Clear MG I use currently as daily driver are 55 ohm, and they sound great with Elise on most music but occasionally bass is a bit loose and treble a bit rolled off. I've read that this can be a byproduct of straying to far from the 'rule of eights" in which HP impedance should be at least 8x of the amps. output impedance.
> 
> I know high output impedance is a characteristic of all OTL's and LOVE their sound and responsiveness to tube rolling, but would welcome input as to whether Euforia OG or AE would be a better match for headphones in the 30-50 ohm impedance range versus Elise. What pairings have others used? Would love to benefit from your experiences!


Elise output impedance is 72 and 62 for the Euforia AE. Don't know about the OG. The AE is like a fusion of the OG and the Elise in terms of sound. Controlled, musical and warmer than the OG Euforia


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 28, 2021)

Deceneu808 said:


> Elise output impedance is 72 and 62 for the Euforia AE. Don't know about the OG. The AE is like a fusion of the OG and the Elise in terms of sound. Controlled, musical and warmer than the OG Euforia


Thanks @Deceneu808. Those output impedance numbers are higher than I've seen elsewhere. In any case, have you tried AE with dynamic driver headphones in the 50 ohm range?


----------



## Deceneu808

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks @Deceneu808. Those output impedance numbers are higher than I've seen elsewhere. In any case, have you tried AE with dynamic driver headphones in the 50 ohm range?


I can't confirm or dent what others have said but I asked at Feliks directly. 72 for Elise and 62 for AE is what I got 

I haven't tried the AE just yet. I'm still with my lovely lady Elise. I'll probably switch it for a AE next year and I only have 150-600 ohm cans to test


----------



## Melting735

incredulousity said:


> This is my current roll on AE. Please excuse the dust.
> 
> Power: KT150/TS5998
> 
> ...


Holyshit, this looks insane


----------



## Henrim

incredulousity said:


> This is my current roll on AE. Please excuse the dust.
> 
> Power: KT150/TS5998
> 
> ...


does the weight of those 150s apply torque onto the tube socket? How does this compare to the Gu50 stack?


----------



## incredulousity

It is lighter than the GU50 stack. I don’t think the torque on the sockets is enough to be deleterious. The GU50 socket adapters are very heavy by comparison.


----------



## jonathan c

Deceneu808 said:


> I'll probably switch it for a AE next year and I only have 150-600 ohm cans to test…😏


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Henrim

*I got rid of my hum!*
It's completely gone, jet black background - I can't even tell if my headphones are plugged in or not it's that quiet. But it will only work with sensitive cans (but I think only sensitive cans will have the hum so...)

*What and How*
I'm just using the ifi IEMatch+ which sits inline with the headphones and reduces the gain by 12dB or 24dB, depending on the setting. This works because the hum is uneffected by the Euforia's volumne knob, but it is reduced by the ifi IEMatch+. So just plug it in, turn the Euforia up and the hum is 12 or 24 dB queiter. 

Usually I use the Utopia's at 7:30-9 o'clock, but with -24dB it's more like 10-1 o'clock. On quiet tracks I can put the volume all the way up to 3 o'clock for a few seconds, but it starts to distort (running KT88s). The hum is negligible with the -12dB setting and obliterated with -24dB.






*Extra Benefit*
The Euforia sounds different at different volumes, so by making it work harder at higher volumes we get more tube saturation. I confirmed this by putting a 1kHz signal into it and measuring what comes out - see chart below for the results. I repeated the test at a higher volume and the peaks at 2, 3, 4k etc. were higher relative to the original 1k. I suspect more things change but this is all I measured.

I'm still forming my opinion on the sound, but with -24dB engaged on IEMatch+ it sounds a bit denser, harmonically rich and 3D. It actually reminds me of what my yggy did.




*Possible Downfalls*
So I'm not 100% sure how IEMatch+ works but if it's adding a resistor to the audio chain that could have adverse effects to the FR. I haven't properly looked into it so if someone else knows please inform me! It isn't changing the FR to my ears, I'm only hearing benefits.


----------



## barontan2418

Henrim said:


> *I got rid of my hum!*
> It's completely gone, jet black background - I can't even tell if my headphones are plugged in or not it's that quiet. But it will only work with sensitive cans (but I think only sensitive cans will have the hum so...)
> 
> *What and How*
> ...


Hi Henrim
Cannot seem to did 6.3 version only IEM sizes. Have you managed to find IEmatch for full size headphones? I'm using 2xKT88's along with two GU50's as powers and 2xKT88 in the driver position and have a faint hum.


----------



## Henrim (Nov 29, 2021)

Yeah mine is 3.5mm, I so I have to use an adapter to plug it in to the Euforia (and my 3.5mm Utopia cable). They also sell a 2.5mm version, but I haven't seen a quarter inch one for sale, it's very much positioned to remove the hiss for ultra sensitive IEMs.


----------



## barontan2418

Henrim said:


> Yeah mine is 3.5mm, I so I have to use an adapter to plug it in to the Euforia (and my 3.5mm Utopia cable). They also sell a 2.5mm version, but I haven't seen a quarter inch one for sale, it's very much positioned to remove the hiss for ultra sensitive IEMs.


Thanks Henrim. Not expensive so worth a try.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> *I got rid of my hum!*
> It's completely gone, jet black background - I can't even tell if my headphones are plugged in or not it's that quiet. But it will only work with sensitive cans (but I think only sensitive cans will have the hum so...)
> 
> *What and How*
> ...


If it is adding resistors to get the attenuation, power output might be a real issue.

12db attenuation means only 1/16th of the power is still available, in the Euforias case thats like 17mW


----------



## Henrim

wow yeah that doesn’t sound like much power! If you’re a already scrambling for headroom it won’t work I’m sure. 

but anyway, the proof is in the pudding. If anyone is trying to get rid of their hum with expensive power conditioners and the like should really try this for only $79 AUD, assuming you have sensitive cans.


----------



## Henrim

I should note that you could just get a passive stepped attenuator if you want less than 12dB reduction. Goldpoint make good ones

https://goldpt.com/sa2.html


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> I should note that you could just get a passive stepped attenuator if you want less than 12dB reduction. Goldpoint make good ones
> 
> https://goldpt.com/sa2.html


That one wouldn't help against the tube noise though, since it will attenuate the Signal that goes into the amplifier, not the output Signal of the amp


----------



## Henrim

Ahh I was meaning going from the headphone out into the attenuator. You would need to faff about with RCA to headphone splitters, so it's messy and hacky.

All that said, I'm not an expert. YMMV!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Ahh I was meaning going from the headphone out into the attenuator. You would need to faff about with RCA to headphone splitters, so it's messy and hacky.
> 
> All that said, I'm not an expert. YMMV!


I'd imagine that the attenuators output impedance might be too high, since it's made for line level signals


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Proud new owner of Euforia & tubes in general. 

Im hoping someone in this community can help me figure out what tubes are recommended withing manufacturer's recommendations. 

I know 5998 tubes are highly regarded as far as power tubes go so I was wondering, if say I get a pair off 5998s, what would be a recommendation as far as driver tubes go to complete the setup?

Thanks in advance! 😁


----------



## Ichos

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Proud new owner of Euforia & tubes in general.
> 
> Im hoping someone in this community can help me figure out what tubes are recommended withing manufacturer's recommendations.
> 
> ...


Why don't you give some time the stock tubes to settle down and open up.
They are pretty good.


----------



## connieflyer

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Proud new owner of Euforia & tubes in general.
> 
> Im hoping someone in this community can help me figure out what tubes are recommended withing manufacturer's recommendations.
> 
> ...


 As others have said listen to the tubes that came with the amplifier.. Let everything settle in for a month or 2 get used to the sound of the amplifier and the tubes and how your music sounds to you.. Your hearing is different from everybody else's what you will like may be similar but not exactly as everyone else's. The stock tubes are pretty good, and they will give you an idea of what you might want to change.. But you have to grow accustomed to the sound of the amplifier 1st to get a basis. So give yourself some time enjoy what you have and learn What you may or may not want to choose to change. Probably the easiest thing to do is to go back on this forum and read what others have done in the past and what they thought of the individual tubes and the change that it made for them I could recommend quite a few different combinations but but that really wouldn't do you as much good as getting used to what you have and then seeing what others have said and the changes that it made for them. So enjoy what you have Felix makes a great amplifier and I'm sure you'll get years of pleasure from it.. Have fun


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Thank you for the responses. 

You guys are right. I need to spend some time & enjoy in stock form first.

That's the one thing about this hobby. There's always that itch to seek out "improvements", instead of just taking the time to "smell the roses".


----------



## jonathan c

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Thank you for the responses.
> 
> You guys are right. I need to spend some time & enjoy in stock form first.
> 
> That's the one thing about this hobby. There's always that itch to seek out "improvements", instead of just taking the time to "smell the roses".


…or smell the warm tubes…😀


----------



## hypnos1

Henrim said:


> *I got rid of my hum!*
> It's completely gone, jet black background - I can't even tell if my headphones are plugged in or not it's that quiet. But it will only work with sensitive cans (but I think only sensitive cans will have the hum so...)
> 
> *What and How*
> ...



Hi H...great news to be rid of dreaded hum...well done!  From what I can remember way back when, those Russian KT88 reissues could indeed sometimes give a little hum when used as drivers for same as powers. But sure makes for a lovely look...not to mention sound. CHEERS...CJ


----------



## connieflyer (Dec 3, 2021)

Hello H,  nice to see you here as always.  When I used the GL KT88's I never had that problem.  Must have had a good pair. Never had a problem with hum caused by tubes.  The only one I remember was the grounding problem, but once I tied all the grounds together never had hum again. Good to see you back, always nice when the Master comes down from the hill! It must be nice to see how the design you started has ended up. I thank you for starting the design of these amps and working them through the many iterations that we have had. You have helped to make a lot of folks happy, poorer to be sure, but happier! Thanks H and especially for the three musketeers!


----------



## hypnos1

barontan2418 said:


> Hi Henrim
> Cannot seem to did 6.3 version only IEM sizes. Have you managed to find IEmatch for full size headphones? I'm using 2xKT88's along with two GU50's as powers and 2xKT88 in the driver position and have a faint hum.



Hi there bt...long time...

Yo...perhaps yours is one of those KT88s driving KT88s scenarios I mentioned just now lol? And/or the GU50s needing the neg out from their DC supply connecting to a separate EARTH? But if the faint hum is only noticeable with no music playing - as happened with my (wonderful) mesh plated black glass Valvo EL11, then probably not too much of a nuisance ...CHEERS! to you too...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

You are right sir as always, making sure you have a good Earth on the transformer neg out was my problem for a while also.  Once I got a good Earth on the neg lead, dead silent.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> Hello H,  nice to see you here as always.  When I used the GL KT88's I never had that problem.  Must have had a good pair. Never had a problem with hum caused by tubes.  The only one I remember was the grounding problem, but once I tied all the grounds together never had hum again. Good to see you back, always nice when the Master comes down from the hill! It must be nice to see how the design you started has ended up. I thank you for starting the design of these amps and working them through the many iterations that we have had. You have helped to make a lot of folks happy, poorer to be sure, but happier! Thanks H and especially for the three musketeers!



And greetings to you too my good friend...and co-conspirator in leading so many down this path to (sound) glory/pecuniary compromisation(??!!) But am so glad Elise and Euforia have gone from strength to strength...(knew I should have negotiated some kind of commission from F-A at the very start lol!! ).

So glad too that your gamble with the AE version proved worthwhile and that you're enjoying it....not cheap but certainly seems to benefit from the further upgrades I suggested.

ps. Our three musketeers soon turned into a good few more way back then...and since lol!  CHEERS!... And HAPPY LISTENING everyone...CJ


----------



## connieflyer

I guess you were too much of a gentleman then!  We did have some fun on this forum, especially while we waited for Euphoria to be available.  I remember Phil and I hogged the thread at first picking on each other, as there were no amps in the field.  I had serial 0005, waiting had never been so agreeable. It was good to see how the forum grew as the machines entered service. I remember at one time at least we had the highest thread count of all the forums here.  Good times, still miss Phil very much. Taken way too soon.


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi there bt...long time...
> 
> Yo...perhaps yours is one of those KT88s driving KT88s scenarios I mentioned just now lol? And/or the GU50s needing the neg out from their DC supply connecting to a separate EARTH? But if the faint hum is only noticeable with no music playing - as happened with my (wonderful) mesh plated black glass Valvo EL11, then probably not too much of a nuisance ...CHEERS! to you too...CJ


Alway nice to have your input H1. Back on GU50'S as drivers and hum is a distant memory. Elise is enjoying more air time now also. Managed to get my hands on a nos pair of black, mesh Valvo EL11 'S and along with EL39 'S in the power roll, so good. They will be in situ for a good while. Take care.


----------



## hypnos1

connieflyer said:


> I guess you were too much of a gentleman then!  We did have some fun on this forum, especially while we waited for Euphoria to be available.  I remember Phil and I hogged the thread at first picking on each other, as there were no amps in the field.  I had serial 0005, waiting had never been so agreeable. It was good to see how the forum grew as the machines entered service. I remember at one time at least we had the highest thread count of all the forums here.  Good times, still miss Phil very much. Taken way too soon.



Ah cf, yes indeed...I was still a novice back in those good ol' days lol! Would love to know the total sales figures now for Elise and Euforia(s)  Not forgetting of course, the myriad different 'alternative' not configured for tubes that were brought back out of the shadows!!...sigh...

And yes again, a very sad loss for Phil to have deserted us far too early!......RIP (still, I trust!!)


barontan2418 said:


> Alway nice to have your input H1. Back on GU50'S as drivers and hum is a distant memory. Elise is enjoying more air time now also. Managed to get my hands on a nos pair of black, mesh Valvo EL11 'S and along with EL39 'S in the power roll, so good. They will be in situ for a good while. Take care.



Thanks bt. And yes, I found the GU50s very impressive as drivers not just powers...and for silly (cheap!) money . And yes again, the EL11/EL39 combo - hard to beat. Especially with the mesh plate black glass Valvos! Where on Earth did you manage to find those? Thought I'd scrounged the last remaining few on the planet lol!!.... Cheers, CJ


----------



## LoryWiv

Wow, it's a good morning seeing @hypnos1, @connieflyer and @barontan2418 on the thread like good old days! One question for those enjoying Euforia AE who have experience with the OG Euforia and Elise: Does Euforia OG or AE perform well with moderate Impedance dynamic driver headphones in addition to cans with high impedance like Senn. and ZMF? I ask because since acquiring my Focal Clear MG (55Ω) I just have a sense driving them with Elise isn't showing their best capabilities, as the sound characteristic is a slightbit bloomy at low end a rolled off up top as compared to even my BTR5 dongle. It is still wonderful but I've seen various data that Euforia and AE have lower output impedance than Elise and as I have a vast, beloved array of compatible tubes, am itching to try Euforia OG of AE with Clear MG to preserve it's excellent imaging, detail retrieval and over all sonics while staying in the Feliks family. Thoughts?


----------



## hypnos1

LoryWiv said:


> Wow, it's a good morning seeing @hypnos1, @connieflyer and @barontan2418 on the thread like good old days! One question for those enjoying Euforia AE who have experience with the OG Euforia and Elise: Does Euforia OG or AE perform well with moderate Impedance dynamic driver headphones in addition to cans with high impedance like Senn. and ZMF? I ask because since acquiring my Focal Clear MG (55Ω) I just have a sense driving them with Elise isn't showing their best capabilities, as the sound characteristic is a slightbit bloomy at low end a rolled off up top as compared to even my BTR5 dongle. It is still wonderful but I've seen various data that Euforia and AE have lower output impedance than Elise and as I have a vast, beloved array of compatible tubes, am itching to try Euforia OG of AE with Clear MG to preserve it's excellent imaging, detail retrieval and over all sonics while staying in the Feliks family. Thoughts?



Hi LW...am enjoying a bit of nostalgia myself lol .

I personally always felt that Euforia is a more dynamic animal, and better able to drive a wide range of headphones. However, I'm increasingly suspecting  that (most) low impedance cans are more likely to achieve their full potential driven by either an SET or _good_ SS amp...another reason I find my Empys (with upgraded cable) simply loving the Chord TT2/mscaler combo. Mind you, the Mezes are easier to drive than most other planar types anyway! But only personal comparisons, and in one's own system will really be able to answer your question of course...any chance of a demo unit at all?  I wish you good luck in your quest LW...CJ


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Wow, it's a good morning seeing @hypnos1, @connieflyer and @barontan2418 on the thread like good old days! One question for those enjoying Euforia AE who have experience with the OG Euforia and Elise: Does Euforia OG or AE perform well with moderate Impedance dynamic driver headphones in addition to cans with high impedance like Senn. and ZMF? I ask because since acquiring my Focal Clear MG (55Ω) I just have a sense driving them with Elise isn't showing their best capabilities, as the sound characteristic is a slightbit bloomy at low end a rolled off up top as compared to even my BTR5 dongle. It is still wonderful but I've seen various data that Euforia and AE have lower output impedance than Elise and as I have a vast, beloved array of compatible tubes, am itching to try Euforia OG of AE with Clear MG to preserve it's excellent imaging, detail retrieval and over all sonics while staying in the Feliks family. Thoughts?


Hello,
I occasionally run the normal Euforia with the Denon D2000 and Fostex TR X00 which are both 25 ohm.
And there is really nothing to complain about.
And they both go one better than on an SS amplifier.
Especially in depth and detail.

But you also have to consider that the headphones difference in the material and dynamic driver.
This means that the Fostex and Denon have wooden cups instead of plastic.
And the drivers are different.
So it doesn't necessarily depend on the ohm range, although the material can also play a role.
It doesn't matter to the amplifier anyway, if the headphones are too low ohm it will distort and if they are too high ohm the performance will drop to its knees.

Because of this, the Clear really can't sound good on the Euforia because of its choice of material, as they are also exhausted besides the technology, and something like shrill can come across.
That's why it seems to them that it sounds better on their Eida because the material is stressed differently.
In other words, they don't stress the headphones.

On the other hand, you can try to get something out of it by changing the tubes, which might be a bit softer, but you have to try it out and decide for yourself.

I have never worn the headphones or connected them to the Euforia, not even the new models.
There's something about the Frenchman that bothers me.

The Zmf, on the other hand, uses the same driver materials as the Fostex, but the difference is that they are designed for 300 ohm instead of 25 ohm, which is why many people say they are fantastic.
As I have already read from some here, the Verite is supposed to be very good on the Euforia and there are two models that are priced below the Verite.
At the moment I'm thinking of giving the Fostex away next year for a Zmf.
Simply because the Euforia is better in the higher ohm range.
The normal Euforia is supposed to be able to play down to 20 ohm, then it's over.
With planar headphones it still works but only to a limited extent.
The Aeon R/T is too low ohm for him.
And with planar headphones you have to try a bit more with the tubes in my opinion.
The Lcd X, on the other hand, is supposedly still feasible.


----------



## Rcr

hypnos1 said:


> Hi LW...am enjoying a bit of nostalgia myself lol .
> 
> I personally always felt that Euforia is a more dynamic animal, and better able to drive a wide range of headphones. However, I'm increasingly suspecting  that (most) low impedance cans are more likely to achieve their full potential driven by either an SET or _good_ SS amp...another reason I find my Empys (with upgraded cable) simply loving the Chord TT2/mscaler combo. Mind you, the Mezes are easier to drive than most other planar types anyway! But only personal comparisons, and in one's own system will really be able to answer your question of course...any chance of a demo unit at all?  I wish you good luck in your quest LW...CJ


totally agree


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

Some may remember that the Euforia had a defect and went back to Feliks for repair.
I also think that before the repair the problem was not there.
And it sounded a bit better.

Since it was repaired, I have the feeling that the right side sometimes tends to exaggerate slightly and occasionally becomes unclean.
The effect is mostly at the beginning of the treble range and ends there.

But it's not necessarily annoying, usually it's less than a second and goes on again until the next part.
It is more irritating.

My guess would be that it could be minimal clipping?
Or could it actually be that one or two DBs are set too loud on the right-hand side, causing these jumps?
I can rule out cable problems and tubes.

Would there be a possibility to readjust without having to send the amplifier on its way again?
Or any other suggestions that could be tried?


----------



## connieflyer

Sorry to hear, you are having a problem with the Euforia.  I am not aware of any potentiometers built into the amp. I don't think that there is a way to adjust it that way, or with a variable capacitor or inductor.  Other than those components, I don't see how you can adjust it.  If this is concern, then contact Feliks and let them know what your concern is.  If it is component failing then they would be able to advise you.  Over the years they have been very responsive to questions from their customers. If there is a problem, I am sure they will help out.  They have always stood behind their products.  I know it is not inexpensive or time consuming to return for repair, but that is the way of the world when you have a global market. I have a friend that bought an amp through an online distributor, it failed after four months.  He got in touch with them, seemed helpful and returned the amp for repair. Because of the distance involved and cost, took over a week to get there. He kept contacting the company about the repair, and they took their time replying and finally no replies at all.  He does not know if company went out of business or is just not good.  Has been over six months now and no way to contact them.  Feliks is not that way.  I know they are busy, but usually respond as quickly as possible.  So I would contact them and see if they can address your concerns.   Good luck.


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> Sorry to hear, you are having a problem with the Euforia.  I am not aware of any potentiometers built into the amp. I don't think that there is a way to adjust it that way, or with a variable capacitor or inductor.  Other than those components, I don't see how you can adjust it.  If this is concern, then contact Feliks and let them know what your concern is.  If it is component failing then they would be able to advise you.  Over the years they have been very responsive to questions from their customers. If there is a problem, I am sure they will help out.  They have always stood behind their products.  I know it is not inexpensive or time consuming to return for repair, but that is the way of the world when you have a global market. I have a friend that bought an amp through an online distributor, it failed after four months.  He got in touch with them, seemed helpful and returned the amp for repair. Because of the distance involved and cost, took over a week to get there. He kept contacting the company about the repair, and they took their time replying and finally no replies at all.  He does not know if company went out of business or is just not good.  Has been over six months now and no way to contact them.  Feliks is not that way.  I know they are busy, but usually respond as quickly as possible.  So I would contact them and see if they can address your concerns.   Good luck.


Hello,
and thanks for the reply, 
I'll try to be a little more precise.

So the amplifier runs, it doesn't cause any other problems.
What I have mentioned seems to come more from the right channel.
At a slightly higher volume and mainly in the treble range.
It doesn't bother much but it's more irritating.
I'm deliberately writing about a small error in the reproduction.

I thought the Audeze Lcd 2 c might have a defect, but it runs perfectly on the hybrid amplifier. And the hybrid amplifier is even more powerful than the Euforia and also new.
Somehow it seems to me that the Euforia can't transport the "air" properly on the right channel. So maybe it is a headphone problem?

In windows I lowered the volume but it seems to be the same, so no clipping.
That's why it's a bit difficult to tell whether it's really the Euforia itself or not.
I am familiar with Feliks' support.  

Let me also say that if I can solve it myself instead of sending it in, I would prefer that.
Even if it was a small cold solder joint, I could still fix it myself.
Otherwise, I can only try the standard process such as cleaning the cable, replacing it if it doesn't improve, cleaning or replacing the fuse.
Could socketsavers also be the reason?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


----------



## Deleeh

Hello again,
I have found the error.
It was not the cable or the fuse.
It was something really stupid.

The Dac has several selectable filters.
When set to Sharp it seems to distort so much at the top end that it can't keep up with the playback.🙈
When I switched to Slow or other filters, the problem was gone as if nothing had happened.💁🏼‍♂️🤦‍♂️💁🏼‍♂️🤦‍♂️
I guess that will teach me a lesson, even if it was only a small thing.
Of course, it would have been nicer to have found out sooner before looking at all the cables and cleaning them, but there's no harm in that.

Besides, it would have been really annoying to get a visit to the factory for nothing and be told everything was OK.

But as always, it's crazy what such small things can sometimes do.
Thanks for the support and advice anyway,✌️😉✌️😉


----------



## aqsw

Heh Guys ,
Has anybody tried the Kennerton  Magni on this amp.? Only 33 ohms, but I have Oppos with the same impedance and they sound pretty good. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ThanatosVI

aqsw said:


> Heh Guys ,
> Has anybody tried the Kennerton  Magni on this amp.? Only 33 ohms, but I have Oppos with the same impedance and they sound pretty good. Thanks in advance.


33 Ohms should be totally fine. (Meze Empyrean has 32 and is an excellent pairing with the Euforia)

Less than 25 might start to become critical


----------



## aqsw

Thanks, I just ordered a pair at 849 cdn, as my Focal Elears did the dreaded left driver failure. Was thinking of buying the Stellias for a closed back, but I'm so glad I didn't  pull the plug. Will never buy a Focal again.


----------



## Simple Man

I wonder which is the better combo with the Euforia AE: HD800s or Utopia?
Anyone?


----------



## Ichos

Simple Man said:


> I wonder which is the better combo with the Euforia AE: HD800s or Utopia?
> Anyone?


HD800S for sure, never ask again!!!


----------



## Alu

Simple Man said:


> I wonder which is the better combo with the Euforia AE: HD800s or Utopia?
> Anyone?



I can actually answer this with a quote from Lukasz from Feliks Audio directly:

"Thanks for your email. Yes Euforia AE + Utopia is probably the golden standard and my personal best combination out there, congratulations."

But obviously one's golden standard will not necessarily be another's - your best call is probably to test for yourself what you like, but failing that read as many reviews about each combination as you can find.


----------



## Simple Man

Great. This helps!


----------



## Simple Man

These are both convincing reactions.
Somebody affered me a young Utopia for decent money. 
I'd love to go for it but it is still a lot of money.
On the other hand I can sell it for the same money if I don't think it is worth the money.


----------



## Alu (Dec 10, 2021)

Simple Man said:


> These are both convincing reactions.
> Somebody affered me a young Utopia for decent money.
> I'd love to go for it but it is still a lot of money.
> On the other hand I can sell it for the same money if I don't think it is worth the money.


The Utopia is great and all, but please be mindful of the potential risks that come with second hand purchases and Focal products.
They do have a few driver failures going around and even though I got lucky with mine up to now, I feel like it's still a fairly high number of people that experience issues with their products (even just recently in this thread it seems like!).
I had to send mine in for repair after about 5 years a couple of weeks ago, because (luckily) only a cable came slightly loose - the process did take a very long time though, and a potential driver replacement would've been very expensive.

I also had to recently buy new pads for it, because the old one kind of started melting (for lack of a better word) very slightly - you wouldn't notice if you didn't take them off though I suspect - this has also been documented in other threads.
And the pads are pretty expensive.

If it comes to customer service I'm sure Sennheiser has Focal beat by quite a large margin at least.
And had I the choice of top of the line headphone now, I might actually look elsewhere because of that.

EDIT: Sorry for the off topic here, I'll add on that I suppose you could experiment with tubes as well to make the amp play nicer with other headphones, as people have done in the past in this thread.


----------



## Galapac

I use my Utopias regularly with the Euforia and it sounds great on it.
I also use ZMF Verites to switch things up and keep things fresh.


----------



## Simple Man

@Alu 
Thanks, very usefull. I'm aware of a few issues. I also read about 70% of the Utopia topic.


----------



## Ichos

To be clear my response was purely to impedance/electronic matching and not for sound synergy.
This is a high end OTL amplifier and you know that the Sennheiser's love them!


----------



## Simple Man

I do know the HD800S loves them but months ago I found the Utopia on a Chord Dave the best I’ve heard. 
Later I tried the Utopia with a few other totl headphones on a few other ams but the Focal always won.


----------



## Ichos

Simple Man said:


> I do know the HD800S loves them but months ago I found the Utopia on a Chord Dave the best I’ve heard.
> Later I tried the Utopia with a few other totl headphones on a few other ams but the Focal always won.


Yes nothing wrong with that!
Just said that the Euforia loves high Z cans.
I am sure that is going to match with the Utopia because it greatly matches with the Clear MG and OG.
The Utopia is higher impedance so better.


----------



## JTbbb

Simple Man said:


> I wonder which is the better combo with the Euforia AE: HD800s or Utopia?
> Anyone?


I personally prefer HD800S out of my AE, and Utopia out of Dave.


----------



## searchingtom

If you want a great low cost option the Verum 1 MK II is also very good  with the Euforia.


----------



## LoryWiv

searchingtom said:


> If you want a great low cost option the Verum 1 MK II is also very good  with the Euforia.


Thanks, that is helpful as from it's low impedance one may have thought it would not pair well with an OTL. A good reminder that one's ears must be the final decision-maker as to what gear works in a particular chain!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I wrote to Lukasz before I bought it.
And he said that the Euforia has no problems with low-ohm headphones.
It's different with the Echo, which I originally wanted.
Even the Elise does very well.
Apart from that, I'm a little surprised that so few people have tried planar headphones with the Euforia.
Even if the Euforia is somewhat limited, it has hardly any problems driving planar headphones as long as they are not too low ohmic like the Aeon headphones.
The rest is then mostly really tuning with tubes to be able to drive planar headphones with it.with a very good sound image.
Which is what most people would do anyway if they were using high-priced headphones.
In the meantime, I listen almost exclusively with the Lcd2c on the Euforia, because it's a lot of fun.
Give it a slightly brighter tube as an addition and one that can deliver good bass performance, then it's really good.
The Fostex hardly got any playtime this year.
When I did, I changed again quite quickly.
The great thing about the Euforia is that you can achieve good performance even with headphones in the lower price range without having to dig deep into your pocket.
The only headphone I didn't like was the Sennheiser Hd 600, but at that time I didn't have any other tubes to test where to steer them.


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks Deleeh,  I was looking at a pair of Fostex TH900mk2, but the 25 ohms seemed it might be too low. Might give them a try.


----------



## Melting735

Deleeh said:


> The only headphone I didn't like was the Sennheiser Hd 600, but at that time I didn't have any other tubes to test where to steer them.


I'm very surprised that your hd600 didn't work well on Euforia. I kinda like mine.  I even prefer it over my t1.


----------



## Deleeh

Well, the thing is.
What the Lcd 2C lacked in bass back then, the Sennheiser did well.
What the Lcd2C did in the mid-range and treble range, the Sennheiser lacked.
So it was clear to me that I didn't need a second Lcd2c if I already had one.

But later I got a good handle on that, too, with the Linlai/Mullard or Sylvania pairings, so that it is now exactly where I wanted it.

But I changed something a bit and now I have found a new pairing that is a bit better but I am still testing.

I have never had any problems with the Fostex.
I would be interested in the Zmf to stress the Euforia a bit more.
But I'm still thinking about that.


----------



## mayurs

HifiMan Ananda with a Feliks Euforia is an absolutely amazing match. Tubes are Raytheon VT-231s and TungSol 6080s. As good or probably better than any SS amp I have heard the Ananda on.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mayurs said:


> HifiMan Ananda with a Feliks Euforia is an absolutely amazing match. Tubes are Raytheon VT-231s and TungSol 6080s. As good or probably better than any SS amp I have heard the Ananda on.


Arya stealth???


----------



## mayurs

Yoram Diamand said:


> Arya stealth???


Yes on my list to audition. Hopefully it will play well too.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

mayurs said:


> Yes on my list to audition. Hopefully it will play well too.


Dear Yoram, 

The HiFiMAN Arya Stealth and Feliks Audio Euforia is a very nice combination. The spaciousness, speed and naturalness of the Arya, goes very well with the naturalness of the Euforia.





> Kind regards,
> 
> DB
> W: www.duneblue.com


----------



## Deleeh

mayurs said:


> HifiMan Ananda with a Feliks Euforia is an absolutely amazing match. Tubes are Raytheon VT-231s and TungSol 6080s. As good or probably better than any SS amp I have heard the Ananda on.


Hello,
I'm glad to see that someone else is using the Euforia with planar headphones.✌️
I can only agree that it is better than any SS amp, especially when the tubes are in harmony.
I listen with the Lcd 2 C, but I am also fully satisfied with it.
Hifiman would also be interesting if there weren't always problems with the quality.

Have fun and enjoy with the Ananda 😉


----------



## Galapac

Cheack out the newest edition to the Feliks line over in the Envy thread.


----------



## flea22

Might be a silly noob question but would it be possible to use the Kt66 tubes and adapter's I got for the Feliks in a woo wa22? There both 6as7 power sockets.


----------



## JTbbb

It’s the season of Gold, Incense and Myrrh. So thought I would get out the only gold I have left, Valvo EL11 black glass mesh plate. The rest went on tubes 😀.


----------



## Renexx

That's a glorious view. How about the sound impressions ? Maybe compared to your Ecc32s.


----------



## JTbbb

Renexx said:


> That's a glorious view. How about the sound impressions ? Maybe compared to your Ecc32s.


I don’t put these in as often as I should as there is a slight hum with one of them. It’s stupid really because once the music starts it disappears. SQ wise they are up there with the best 6sn7’s, nothing to dislike at all, but I still have a soft spot for the ecc32’s. The other non SQ subjective area of owning tubes like these is their rarity, and of course they look fabulous!


----------



## barontan2418

JTbbb said:


> It’s the season of Gold, Incense and Myrrh. So thought I would get out the only gold I have left, Valvo EL11 black glass mesh plate. The rest went on tubes 😀.


Nice aren't they. I have a pair driving EL39 's in Elise. I keep taking them out and replacing with regular Valvo's just so the mesh plate tubes will last as long as me. Daft old bugger me.😂


----------



## connieflyer

One of my favorite combos barontan2418


----------



## JTbbb

barontan2418 said:


> Nice aren't they. I have a pair driving EL39 's in Elise. I keep taking them out and replacing with regular Valvo's just so the mesh plate tubes will last as long as me. Daft old bugger me.😂


I have a pair of these Dario EL38’s. I haven’t put them with the Valvo’s as yet.


----------



## connieflyer

They should sound great.  I think they are better than the EL39


----------



## barontan2418

JTbbb said:


> I have a pair of these Dario EL38’s. I haven’t put them with the Valvo’s as yet.


Something to look forward to JT. Searched high and low for a pair if those beauty's  in the past without any joy.😪


----------



## JTbbb

barontan2418 said:


> Something to look forward to JT. Searched high and low for a pair if those beauty's  in the past without any joy.😪


Perhaps this summer coming you could combine some Twitching with “Messing about with Tubes & Phones!” 👍


----------



## JTbbb

Done! Now setting down for a session. Sounding great.


----------



## Simple Man

Please go on.
I love this talk


----------



## Deleeh

Can you tell us what we must do to try this?
Need a adapter i suppose?
The 6.5 ampere regulate ist clear.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Can you tell us what we must do to try this?
> Need a adapter i suppose?
> The 6.5 ampere regulate ist clear.


I must bow to more learned friends than myself as I bought these with re-worked bases,  thus negating the need to use an adapter. But I do believe adapters are available.


----------



## Deleeh

Okay, as you have it, it's definitely quite good visually.
The cable could have been sheathed in black, but otherwise it's great.
The tube look with the gold accents goes very well with the amp.
How does it compare sonically to the classic tubes that should be used normally?

I've gone a different way at the moment and I'm sure it was the right one.
But it brings one or the other problem with it.nothing world moving.
I'd like to take the second step on recommendation, but it's a bit difficult to get hold of.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time until the beginning of the year to tackle it better and make a commitment.

As I see and feel, not everyone is happy with the Euforia when you look at all the tube conversions.
So most people are missing something, aren't they?


----------



## Melting735

JTbbb said:


> Done! Now setting down for a session. Sounding great.


Looks so beautiful. What are these tubes?


----------



## barontan2418 (Dec 28, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Can you tell us what we must do to try this?
> Need a adapter i suppose?
> The 6.5 ampere regulate ist clear.


Adapters for EL11 Valvo's you may already have? However EL39 adapters are not available through ebay but I believe Deyan can make them if required. Adapters for EL38 were and probably still are available on ebay or again Deyan. The black mesh plate Valvo EL11's date back to 1939/early 40's and are super rare. Regular Valvo EL11's are also very good but not quite up to the old mesh plate version.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Hi I bought 7236 to kt 88 converters, but at times I see people use 4 Gold Lions, in the front too. Is there a special 6sn7 to kt 88 converter?


----------



## LoryWiv

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi I bought 7236 to kt 88 converters, but at times I see people use 4 Gold Lions, in the front too. Is there a special 6sn7 to kt 88 converter?


With my Elise I can use the same converters in all sockets. I believe same is true for Euforia.


----------



## JTbbb

Melting735 said:


> Looks so beautiful. What are these tubes?


The previous couple of pages describe briefly the sonic qualities and the tubes are Valvo EL11 black glass, mesh plate and Dario EL38’s.


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
I've  always been an early adaptor on Feliks.
I own #27 Elise and
#7  Euphoria.

I am really interested in the Envy. As I run two systems, one amp must go.
What do you think is a fair price (USD) for these amps. They are both in excellent condition. I take very good care of my gear.

These are the 1st edition of both models, as  per the serial # .

Thanks in advance.


----------



## smodtactical

I am looking for a warm, rich somewhat gooey amp to pair with hd800S. Would the euforia or AE be a good choice? Right now running elekit tu8600S.


----------



## incredulousity

AE is great with HD800S for me. This is regardless of tube roll.


----------



## smodtactical

incredulousity said:


> AE is great with HD800S for me. This is regardless of tube roll.


If I may ask what other amps did you compare it to ?


----------



## incredulousity

I have HA-2SF, Phonitor X, GSX Mini, and Euforia AE. It sounds great with all of them. I feel that these phones always need EQ, regardless of the amp, but other than that, they are outstanding.


----------



## Deceneu808

smodtactical said:


> I am looking for a warm, rich somewhat gooey amp to pair with hd800S. Would the euforia or AE be a good choice? Right now running elekit tu8600S.


Richest gooey amp might be the Elise in this case but Euforia AE is close. Stay away from the OG Euforia if you want rich warm and gooey


----------



## JTbbb

smodtactical said:


> I am looking for a warm, rich somewhat gooey amp to pair with hd800S. Would the euforia or AE be a good choice? Right now running elekit tu8600S.


HD800S goes great with the amps suggested above. Whichever amp you go for, I think that the installation of British tubes will take you to your “warm, rich and gooyey sound” you are after.


----------



## ThanatosVI

smodtactical said:


> I am looking for a warm, rich somewhat gooey amp to pair with hd800S. Would the euforia or AE be a good choice? Right now running elekit tu8600S.


In that case the Elise is the best fit.
Euforia AE is less warm and rich but more detailed. 
Regular Euforia is even more neutral than the AE.


----------



## Ichos

Regular Euforia is solid state technicalities with some tube musicality.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I understand what you mean about using the in-house tubes.
If you are using them, replace them with warmer and richer tubes.
Then you do not need an Eq.
The 6AS7G tubes mask the sound and the Ps vane are neutral but cold and a bit unmusical.
It is always a bit difficult to give a recommendation because of the subjectivity of each individual.
And a question of money in the end what is willing to spend.


----------



## connieflyer

Following this discussion, I looked through my tube collection, and found a pair of tubes I used with Elise, but have not tried since.  Put them in and was very pleasantly surpriesed.  Far better than the stock 6as7's that I no longer use at all. With the AE amp and stock driver tubes the Thompson CF 6080WA tubes really warm the amp up.  If you have these give them a try.  The Thompson's were made in France, and I don't know the availability now.  I had one of the early Elise's and remember that the 6080 tube was better, and the WA version preferred.


----------



## connieflyer

The EL11 mesh plates are very scarce.  I have enjoyed mine with the Elise, Euforia, and now the AE.  I rotate them in occaisonally, but so many great combos they don't get much play now.  They have new bases on them, converted to work without adapters as 6sn7's, by Colin, the originator of this thread, as well as the Elise thread, Hpnos1.


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> Following this discussion, I looked through my tube collection, and found a pair of tubes I used with Elise, but have not tried since.  Put them in and was very pleasantly surpriesed.  Far better than the stock 6as7's that I no longer use at all. With the AE amp and stock driver tubes the Thompson CF 6080WA tubes really warm the amp up.  If you have these give them a try.  The Thompson's were made in France, and I don't know the availability now.  I had one of the early Elise's and remember that the 6080 tube was better, and the WA version preferred.


Hello,
Yes, they still exist.
I recently bought a set for a week.
They are great tubes, I must say.
Plays down nice low bass, great mids and treble.
It was exactly what I was looking for.
I'm thinking of buying a second set.


----------



## connieflyer

I think I found the combination and I'm going to use for a couple of months. These 6080 WA tubes are working out extremely well. They really add a lot of warmth especially in the base. For drivers I went to a pair of Sylvania VT231 from the late 1940s. Always like these for the extended trouble and extremely smooth and precise mid-range. They really open up the soundstage and the overall richness of the music. I've had these tubes 4/5 years as the first time I put the two types together so you just never know what you're going to find until you start moving things around. I tried this with a pair of VT 231 black glass from 1944, but the Sylvania open up the midst and  treble better. Listened for hours on these today. So check your tube collection and see what combo's  you can make


----------



## swissheadphonelover (Jan 6, 2022)

connieflyer said:


> I think I found the combination and I'm going to use for a couple of months. These 6080 WA tubes are working out extremely well. They really add a lot of warmth especially in the base. For drivers I went to a pair of Sylvania VT231 from the late 1940s. Always like these for the extended trouble and extremely smooth and precise mid-range. They really open up the soundstage and the overall richness of the music. I've had these tubes 4/5 years as the first time I put the two types together so you just never know what you're going to find until you start moving things around. I tried this with a pair of VT 231 black glass from 1944, but the Sylvania open up the midst and  treble better. Listened for hours on these today. So check your tube collection and see what combo's  you can make


Same here, GEC 6080 and Sylvania VT231 from the late 1940s are my „endgame combination“.


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Just snagged a pair of WE 421A & was wondering if anyone in the community can recommend me driver tubes to pair with them or will the stock cv181 be more than enough?

Thanks in advance 🙏


----------



## Deceneu808

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Just snagged a pair of WE 421A & was wondering if anyone in the community can recommend me driver tubes to pair with them or will the stock cv181 be more than enough?
> 
> Thanks in advance 🙏


Endless possibilities. I myself have settled with some 63 Melz 1578


----------



## JTbbb

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Just snagged a pair of WE 421A & was wondering if anyone in the community can recommend me driver tubes to pair with them or will the stock cv181 be more than enough?
> 
> Thanks in advance 🙏


The stock tubes will be good enough, stick with them for a while. In the meantime keep your eyes on the classifieds as any of the Sylvania’s, Tung Sols, etc will go well with your 421A’s.


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Thanks man! I'll keep my eye out.


----------



## Alu

I'm also running the GEC 6080 - I want to find another set potentially or another single NOS one just for backup, because I love these things so much.

And I recently got a pair of Sylv 6sn7w, which don't come cheap, but they're WORTH EVERY PENNY.
I feel like they bring out the strengths of the GECs even more by making everything sound hugely more dramatic and I've never been more emtionally involved in my music - I never knew the Utopia had such thumping lower registers.

Another huge plus with those is that they're DEAD SILENT.

The stock psvanes have a very VERY light sort of washing mashine hum - barely inaudible and definitely not audible once you've been wearing them for a while - this happened with 2 stock pairs (on two different amps - I got to try another Euforia AE in my setup as I thought the culprit could've potentially been the dreaded wall socket or something of the like), so I could confirm that it wasn't down to a specific set of drivers.
(I do think that the stock psvanes are by no means bad and I might swap back to them once in a while to remind myself of what they're like.)
I then got a variety of Sylv WGTs, which are also really decent in my opinion, but they had an even louder and more noticeable hum - again tried with 2 pair (one was louder than the other here) - without the hum I actually would've kept those and not looked further.

When I plugged the 6sn7w in I couldn't believe it - nothing.
I pressed the ear cups on my ears and I thought the amp was off there for a moment.
I actually thought that the Utopia would always pick up some minor noise with tubes, but it turns out that that's just not the case.

So now I'm totally done!  justkiddingtimetogetmoretubessendhelp.


----------



## barontan2418

Hi. Just wondering if anybody has had any experience driving the LCD 3 (Fazor Drivers) with Euforia. If so any thoughts on their capability with Classical music and female vocal. Thanks.


----------



## LoryWiv

barontan2418 said:


> Hi. Just wondering if anybody has had any experience driving the LCD 3 (Fazor Drivers) with Euforia. If so any thoughts on their capability with Classical music and female vocal. Thanks.


I'd love to know this as well...interested in LC-3 but not sure how it would pair (in my case with Elise)/


----------



## Yoram Diamand

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Just snagged a pair of WE 421A & was wondering if anyone in the community can recommend me driver tubes to pair with them or will the stock cv181 be more than enough?
> 
> Thanks in advance 🙏


I pair the 7236 with linlai elite e- 6sn7, the linlai are more airy I'd say and are aiming for Acme quality for cv-181 price point. The 7236 are not very warm, so lots of treble magic maybe a bit less bas magic. The Linlai are too big so I lift one up with 2 socket savers


----------



## Deleeh

barontan2418 said:


> Hi. Just wondering if anybody has had any experience driving the LCD 3 (Fazor Drivers) with Euforia. If so any thoughts on their capability with Classical music and female vocal. Thanks.


Hello,
Unfortunately, I can't tell you 100% whether the Euforia amplifier will work with the Lcd 3.
The Lcd 3 has 110 ohms, which is quite a lot for a planar headphone.
Audeze states in the data sheet that the Lcd 3 requires a minimum of 100 mw to operate and recommends going higher than 250mw.
The Euforia amplifier has just 250mw output power and can vary a bit depending on the tubes.
I think it might be a bit tight and I imagine you will have to open the potentiometer very wide on the Euforia.
Technically it will work, but whether it will satisfy you is another story.

With the Lcd 2C I have and also use with its 70 ohm it is sufficient and satisfactory for me after an adapted tube change.
Remember that even though Feliks states that the Euforia is planar, it is only conditionally so.
Very low ohm planar headphones like the Aeon or high ohm ones like the lcd 3 can cause problems.
Low ohm headphones will distort and high ohm headphones may not deliver enough power or may be borderline.


----------



## connieflyer

A little background, I have been using and trained in vacuum tubes since the early 1960's, by the US Navy, and in all my repair work and tube replacements over the years had never dropped or broke a tube.  Until a few months ago, one of my favorite tubes, a Gold Aero 5998A slipped out of it's box and broke on the floor.  Took a long time to find these tubes, and I only had the one pair, so had been looking for another since then, no luck. Used them with a pair of Gold Aero 6sn7's.   I tried an RCA 5998A, and it was okay, but not the same.  Just tried a pair os Sylvania 5998A tubes with a pair of Sylvania VT231 from the forties, and find this a really good combo.  Bass goes deep and mid's and treble are extended but not overbearing. Still searching for another Gold Aero. If any of you see one for sale please let me know.  Thank you.


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> A little background, I have been using and trained in vacuum tubes since the early 1960's, by the US Navy, and in all my repair work and tube replacements over the years had never dropped or broke a tube.  Until a few months ago, one of my favorite tubes, a Gold Aero 5998A slipped out of it's box and broke on the floor.  Took a long time to find these tubes, and I only had the one pair, so had been looking for another since then, no luck. Used them with a pair of Gold Aero 6sn7's.   I tried an RCA 5998A, and it was okay, but not the same.  Just tried a pair os Sylvania 5998A tubes with a pair of Sylvania VT231 from the forties, and find this a really good combo.  Bass goes deep and mid's and treble are extended but not overbearing. Still searching for another Gold Aero. If any of you see one for sale please let me know.  Thank you.


Will keep an eye out CF. Just treated myself to the ZMF Verite (open) so might be doing a little more tube rolling myself in a week or two.😉


----------



## connieflyer

Please let me know how the ZMF Verite (open) sound to you.  I prefer the open version of most phones, and have been considering these as well.


----------



## JBOOGIE86

Welp, I been really enjoying the Euforia with my HD800s & Verite Closed. It's been by far, the closest I've felt like I reached "endgame" in my audio journey. 

Having said that, I would like to know what other headphones benefit from this sort of specialized amplifier. Considering that the Euforia is not exactly a good pair with ALL headphones, seems like when it's a good pair....it's a  DAMN GREAT pair. So this has me curious as to what my next headphone purchase will be.

I've narrowed it down to 3 headphones,

Focal Utopia 
Meze Empyrean 
Focal Stellia

I would like to hear some thoughts from the community as what their experience has been pairing the Euforia with any of these 3. If there's any other headphone I didn't list that really shines with Euforia, I'm more than happy to take in those recommendations as well.

Thank you


----------



## JTbbb

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Welp, I been really enjoying the Euforia with my HD800s & Verite Closed. It's been by far, the closest I've felt like I reached "endgame" in my audio journey.
> 
> Having said that, I would like to know what other headphones benefit from this sort of specialized amplifier. Considering that the Euforia is not exactly a good pair with ALL headphones, seems like when it's a good pair....it's a  DAMN GREAT pair. So this has me curious as to what my next headphone purchase will be.
> 
> ...


I have the Euforia AE with HD800S and Utopia. IMHO the Utopia’s don’t synergise with AE as well as the HD800S’s. Despite various tube configurations the Utopia’s always has a faint hum in the background, whereas the Senn’s are silent. I also have a aftermarket cable for the Utopia’s, which makes no difference. The Utopia’s sound fantastic out of my SS amp.


----------



## LoryWiv

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Welp, I been really enjoying the Euforia with my HD800s & Verite Closed. It's been by far, the closest I've felt like I reached "endgame" in my audio journey.
> 
> Having said that, I would like to know what other headphones benefit from this sort of specialized amplifier. Considering that the Euforia is not exactly a good pair with ALL headphones, seems like when it's a good pair....it's a  DAMN GREAT pair. So this has me curious as to what my next headphone purchase will be.
> 
> ...


Would add one / any of the ZMF high impedance dynamics. I run Auteur with Elise and it is a wonderful match.


----------



## Alu (Feb 10, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> I have the Euforia AE with HD800S and Utopia. IMHO the Utopia’s don’t synergise with AE as well as the HD800S’s. Despite various tube configurations the Utopia’s always has a faint hum in the background, whereas the Senn’s are silent. I also have a aftermarket cable for the Utopia’s, which makes no difference. The Utopia’s sound fantastic out of my SS amp.


There's actually no hum with the right tube combo - to my own shock.
Using the Sylvania 6SN7W as drivers it disappears completely - but I'd say even the very slight humming noise of the stock psvanes becomes irrelevant after a while even when listening to nothing - it disappears into the background and the sound itself is worth it.
The loudest hum I had yet was with the Sylvania 6sn7gt drivers.

But to the original question: The Utopia and Euforia combo is excellent, Lukasz himself would vouch for that if you asked him via mail and they used to have that exact combo at trade shows to show off their amp.
I'd definitely recommend not taking any one's person (mine ) word for it though and look through to other audio websites as well about their experiences with Utopia and Euforia (most ideally audition).

EDIT: BTW there's literally no hum even with the hummiest driver tubes on the Verite Closed - or if you know it's there on the loudest drivers you'd have to press the things onto your ears and really listen out for it - so there is merit to people saying no to the Utopias on this. It comes down to what you deem acceptable.

EDIT2 (10/02/2022): For the google searchers or anyone else reading the thread: I went back to the stock Psvane gold drivers that come supplied with the amp for the Utopia - I went through A BUNCH of drivers, but ultimately I think the most competent synergy for me personally comes actually from those stock drivers. Still using GEC 6080 as powers - they're fantastic.
There is actual magic happening in the stock config of this amp with this headphone (so much space and separation - amazing), and I feel like that was lost with me trying different things, that always seemed to do only one thing right, but other things wrong.
Now I'm actually settled with what I have, but I wish everyone else a fun journey!


----------



## Alu

Just FYI for people interested in getting some GEC 6080s within the UK - there's a seller who provides a PAIR (that's right, not one) for 120 quid. (I purchased one of those pairs and am testing it right now - seems to be working fine for now).

I'm not sure if I'm copying the link correctly here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175121345799

They are used but the seller is saying "*testing as new 80-100%*".
Anyway, just thought I'd let people know - the seller feedback seems to be decent enough as well.
I think for that kind of price you can't go too wrong - don't quote me on that though.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
yes, it seems to be used.
I have seen that it is from Billigton.
You can trust them and they know what they are doing.
I bought 6080 tubes from Brimar and Csf and everything was fine.
It was also neatly packaged and everything worked perfectly.
So you can buy without hesitation if you want to.

Thanks for the link, but personally I'm not interested, I have other plans .


----------



## shafat777

A little question for peeps who knows either the Elise or the Euforia.

I have been running in a minor issue for the last few weeks. Anytime i use a socket saver on the two driver sockets on my Elise, i am hearing a faint but audible chirp or buzz coming out of the ONLY the LEFT channel. So far i have tried two completely different set of socket saver (1 pair from deyan, 1 pair of tubemonger) and they both have the exact same issue. Heres the funny thing, if i plug the tubes in directly into the amp, its dead silent. as soon as i use either of the socket saver, the chirp and buff comes back. I have tried with atleast 3 sets of tubes and they all exhibit the same issue. Chirp with socket savers, silent with no socket saver. My power tubes are also on socket saver/ adapters and they work fine. No issues. I ever tried the socket savers from the driver tubes on the power tubes and it works just fine. Not sure what else to do beside keep using the amp sockets for my tubes.

Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## Galapac

shafat777 said:


> A little question for peeps who knows either the Elise or the Euforia.
> 
> I have been running in a minor issue for the last few weeks. Anytime i use a socket saver on the two driver sockets on my Elise, i am hearing a faint but audible chirp or buzz coming out of the ONLY the LEFT channel. So far i have tried two completely different set of socket saver (1 pair from deyan, 1 pair of tubemonger) and they both have the exact same issue. Heres the funny thing, if i plug the tubes in directly into the amp, its dead silent. as soon as i use either of the socket saver, the chirp and buff comes back. I have tried with atleast 3 sets of tubes and they all exhibit the same issue. Chirp with socket savers, silent with no socket saver. My power tubes are also on socket saver/ adapters and they work fine. No issues. I ever tried the socket savers from the driver tubes on the power tubes and it works just fine. Not sure what else to do beside keep using the amp sockets for my tubes.
> 
> ...


The chirp and buzz sounds you describe usually come from a laptop or router and maybe the socket savers are amplifying this somehow?
Do you have your amp near any of these things?
What are you using as your music source?
I have never heard of socket savers causing these sounds by themselves.


----------



## shafat777

Galapac said:


> The chirp and buzz sounds you describe usually come from a laptop or router and maybe the socket savers are amplifying this somehow?
> Do you have your amp near any of these things?
> What are you using as your music source?
> I have never heard of socket savers causing these sounds by themselves.


There is a router about 6 ft away from it. I have tried unplugging the router but the chirp still stays on while there's a socket saver. I also thought socket savers are amplifying the buzz, then how come its dead silent without? I have all of my equipment plugged in a Power conditioner. I use USB from my PC to my hermes DDC which then supplies my Pontus 2 dac via I2S and then rca to the Elise amp.

Just like you mentioned, its a very strange issue. I dont mind using the amp sockets but the amount of tube rolling this amp can handle, i would feel safe using a socket saver to take the wear and tear.


----------



## LoryWiv (Feb 8, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> A little question for peeps who knows either the Elise or the Euforia.
> 
> I have been running in a minor issue for the last few weeks. Anytime i use a socket saver on the two driver sockets on my Elise, i am hearing a faint but audible chirp or buzz coming out of the ONLY the LEFT channel. So far i have tried two completely different set of socket saver (1 pair from deyan, 1 pair of tubemonger) and they both have the exact same issue. Heres the funny thing, if i plug the tubes in directly into the amp, its dead silent. as soon as i use either of the socket saver, the chirp and buff comes back. I have tried with atleast 3 sets of tubes and they all exhibit the same issue. Chirp with socket savers, silent with no socket saver. My power tubes are also on socket saver/ adapters and they work fine. No issues. I ever tried the socket savers from the driver tubes on the power tubes and it works just fine. Not sure what else to do beside keep using the amp sockets for my tubes.
> 
> ...


Hi @shafat777 sorry to hear of this annoyance. I run Elise with socket savers or adapters in driver slot often without this issue. Only thing I can suggest is to clean all (sockets, pins on adapters and tubes) with some Deoxit on a Q-tip. Let all dry a few hours before turning back on. This technique has magically eliminated a few mystery gremlins for me, hope it helps for you!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I have similar problems with the 10$ Socketsavers.which are actually worse than their savers where you have.
I have found that mainly on mine it comes from the 6sn7 socket right channel.
If I leave the saver off there and use a saver on the rest it works.

I don't know why, the noise is the least but can be a bit irritating occasionally.

The amplifier does not like such savers at all.
Although it would make sense.
I think it might have something to do with the material selection of the savers causing something.
On the other hand, if you don't roll an excessive amount of tubes, it should be fine without.
The bases in the Elise and Euforia have some kind of collet spring installed.
So it would take a lot to destroy them, especially if you had to use a lot of force to break them.

Cleaning might help, but you will only see if it helps later.


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @shafat777 sorry to hear of this annoyance. I run Elise with socket savers or adapters in driver slot often without this issue. Only thing I can suggest is to clean all (sockets, pins on adapters and tubes) with some Deoxit on a Q-tip. Let all dry a few hours before turning back on. This technique has magically eliminated a few mystery gremlins for me, hope it helps for you!


Hey @LoryWiv

I actually did clean out the pins on the deyans as well as the brand new tube monger savers. Still buzzing. As soon as I took the savers out, they were fine. I rotated each of the savers to the back (power tubes) and the all worked fine. Just like @Deleeh said, I only hear the buzz from one channel, and for me it's the left side. 

I also switched the location of my amp to the other side of the desk where it's further away from my wifi router and the buzzing went down a bit. I think that could be the culprit. Unfortunately, I can really keep the Elise on the other side of the desk due to heat issue so I think after work today, I m gonna try to relocate the wifi router and see if that helps. 

I also had another idea where I can use tubes that require an adapter (those don't give me any buzzing) so I ordered a pair of ken rad 6f6g and hopefully if they sounds good, and without any buzzing, that would my solution without having to rearrange the whole room lol
Thanks for all the help. I certainly do appreciate it


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## Deleeh

Hello,
For me it is also only on the left but not extreme.
You only hear it when it's quiet, otherwise not.
Without the socketsaver, however, it is dead silent.
I can't say why only the 6SN7 socket is affected, but I don't have any problems with the 6AS7G socket.
But good to know that the ones from Tubemonger also cause problems, I have already saved 100$, thanks for the info.

Pay attention to the room temperature when it is running hot, perhaps open the window briefly every hour so that a bit of fresh air arrives.
The heat development comes from the tubes, transformer and capacitors.
If the heating is also running in winter, it is rather suboptimal.
I think you need an adapter for the 6f6g.
Because you have to connect one pole at the top.
Look at the Ken rads to see if they have a pole at the top, and if so, you need this adapter. So that the current also arrives there and is thus closed.


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## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> For me it is also only on the left but not extreme.
> You only hear it when it's quiet, otherwise not.
> Without the socketsaver, however, it is dead silent.
> ...


Perhaps the reason the 6SN7 sockets are more prone to noise is because the 6AS7 family tubes have an amplification factor around 2, and the 6SN7 family amplifies at a factor of 20. Other suitable driver tubes may have much higher amplification factors.


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## Galapac

Another fun fact...

If I run KT88s with adapter in the power sockets with 6SN7s up front, my amp stays noticeably cooler than if I run 6080/6AS7s in the back.
Feliks doesn't recommend the KT88s but others have done without issue and if heat is any indicator, I say my Euforia runs better with KT88s in the power sockets keeping things cooler and extending the life of the capacitors, etc.
It barley gets warm running KT88s or 6L6GCs in those sockets.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Galapac said:


> Another fun fact...
> 
> If I run KT88s with adapter in the power sockets with 6SN7s up front, my amp stays noticeably cooler than if I run 6080/6AS7s in the back.
> Feliks doesn't recommend the KT88s but others have done without issue and if heat is any indicator, I say my Euforia runs better with KT88s in the power sockets keeping things cooler and extending the life of the capacitors, etc.
> It barley gets warm running KT88s or 6L6GCs in those sockets.


Which makes sense the 6080s need a lot more  current than the KT88


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## mordy

Galapac said:


> Another fun fact...
> 
> If I run KT88s with adapter in the power sockets with 6SN7s up front, my amp stays noticeably cooler than if I run 6080/6AS7s in the back.
> Feliks doesn't recommend the KT88s but others have done without issue and if heat is any indicator, I say my Euforia runs better with KT88s in the power sockets keeping things cooler and extending the life of the capacitors, etc.
> It barley gets warm running KT88s or 6L6GCs in those sockets.


I would recommend inexpensive USB powered cooling fans. They also run very quiet. I am using the AC Infinity brand that comes singly or as dual fans; 3" or 4" work fine. Amazon has good prices - here is an example:
https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...4342705&sprefix=ac+infinity+fan,aps,93&sr=8-3


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## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Hey @LoryWiv
> 
> I actually did clean out the pins on the deyans as well as the brand new tube monger savers. Still buzzing. As soon as I took the savers out, they were fine. I rotated each of the savers to the back (power tubes) and the all worked fine. Just like @Deleeh said, I only hear the buzz from one channel, and for me it's the left side.
> 
> ...


I think you will like the KR's! Keep us posted @shafat777.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

I'm going to touch on a subject that may be of different opinion to some.
Most are of course happy with the way the amplifier is out of the box.
Which is perfectly okay, this is not a must or obligation to implement.
The goal is also to give the Euforia more pep without changing its main sound signature and to put it in a different light.
Even though the AE is still available for a hefty surcharge.
The changes that have been made are largely more for depth, imaging and revealing what is contained in the music and in the finish.
The changes have nevertheless kept its basic sound.
Most of the sound is still determined by the tubes that are brought along.

However, I will give a few reasons why and wherefore.
And where the advantages and disadvantages lie.
In my opinion, the Euforia is not a bad amplifier - in fact, it still has potential for improvement.
You can't really get any lower than what it comes out of the box.
If it does, something went wrong.
Furthermore, I don't blame Feliks because the main views that were pursued are quite different.

When I bought him back then, I had a bit of a hard time at the beginning.
For me, his weakness is the implementation of the planar headphones.
Apart from the fact that it lacks a bit of power for the drive, the only other thing it lacks is a bit more punch and love.
The mids and highs are actually very well done, but could be a little better.
Unfortunately, the bass range suffers more than on dynamic headphones.
What also bothers me a bit is the basic tuning with the stock tubes.
The 6AS7G are not necessarily bad but they mask a bit.
Although from a price point of view, the 6as7g would be superior.
That you end up changing to 6080,5998,7236 tubes, partly also goes to a price level that is sometimes questionable.
With the conversion, the 6AS7G benefits more than the Euforia comes out of the box, just like the 6SN7.

Let's start with the smallest part that anyone can do.

The fuse can contribute to a little more stability in the system and improve small nuances in the sound.
I bought the Hifi Tuning Gold six months ago and it ran in the Euforia for a good six months.
A lot of things have improved but also deteriorated, I noticed afterwards.
I took the Hifi Tuning fuse out and put the original one back in because the gold version gave exactly the same performance on my hybrid amplifier.
The Lcd2C has pretty much the same signature on the hybrid amplifier as an example where I thought okay this can't be it.
The bass gain was clear on the Euforia but suffered in its definition.logically then when you are chasing something you take what you can get as it was in my case.
It sounded a bit too muddy and uncontrolled for me.
The rest was otherwise a gain.But not where it should go.
After using the same fuse in the hybrid amplifier I found out that the golden one is not ideal for tube amplifiers.

The silver one from Hifi Tuning is supposed to be better for tube amplifiers.
I found this out from a reliable source and it confirmed my impressions.
With a bit of luck, I was able to exchange the gold one that was installed in the hybrid amplifier for the silver one for the Euforia's values.
The test is still pending and I can only say something about it later.
I don't expect excessive results, if anything it will be nuances.
By the way, the Golden Hifi Tuning Fuse looks very good in Dac's and DDC or SS amplifiers.
In the Dac and in the Singxer Su 2 there was a small improvement tonally but also in terms of operating temperature.

As a rough rule of thumb it can be any other fuse even if it costs 200$ as long as it is silver for tube amps.
But to be honest, I personally think 100$ is just about acceptable.
Also because the improvement is nuacenous and the increase is minimal.
The Hifi Tuning offers, roughly speaking, a good compromise in this respect.
It is inexpensive, solidly built and has even better properties than the standard fuse.
Generalised a hintroducts from China have used a quite badly made fuse.
I had a ceramic fuse in my Singxer, but the caps on it were wobbly, so it's not quite OK. Even if you don't shake it, it can lead to slight alternating voltages in the system.
You should at least replace it with a better standard fuse.
The one from Feliks was perfectly fine, by the way.

The next part is the topic of capacitors.

Of course, this is a very controversial topic for some people.
I had doubts about it myself for a long time and was on the side where people thought it didn't make sense and the effects couldn't be that great.
I was taught better after repairing my Little dots 1+, which broke down because of a capacitor and socket.
I fitted it with better capacitors and replaced the sockets with better ones.
The sound has also changed a lot for the better and the operating temperature has also gone down a good deal. and today it runs better than ever.

Myphone did this in the Euforia.
Not because of a defect but because he felt like it.
I thought about it in the summer and rejected it again, but when he reported his results I couldn't do anything. 
but when he reported his results, I couldn't help myself.
And I let myself get infected, whether it was worth it?
By the way, this is the second easiest method to do on the Euforia without needing a lot of basic knowledge.
You have to have a bit of skill with a soldering iron and make sure the capacitors you want to use have the right polarity.
Then you can do it in less than 1-2 hours.
For experts it takes 30-45 minutes.
This part is about replacing the capacitors on the 6SN7 socket.

I followed Myphone's advice and also replaced the Mundorf capacitors with the Vcaps TFTF capacitors.
And also sacrificed the warranty for it (yes, how stupid).
Yes, it's rubbish for some, but why wait until the warranty expires?
It still remains a big nuisance if there is something wrong with it.

To name one reason.
There is no question that manufacturers will be forced to move to industrial products at some point.
It's a question of the production costs that you have, as well as the supply that has to be made if the product is popular.
Apart from that, you also have to make compromises, which Feliks has also tried to do without offering any major disadvantages.
And also a repair can be offered at a lower price, logically.
In the end, it has nothing to do with the quality, because the Euforia is quite flawless the way it was made.
But with the quality of hearing.
Even though Feliks had said at some point that they wanted to offer a neutral amplifier without sound colouration and the like.
Which is also okay.

It is not compulsory to replace these capacitors but worthwhile for the listener.
But there was still something that bothered me about the Euforia as described above. 
I think it was always a bit too neutral for me and always needed warm tubes from a personal point of view.
Also, for me personally, it always lacked a bit of the final touch that you can't get with tubes, no matter if they are expensive or cheap.
Back to the capacitors, it doesn't necessarily have to be the Vcaps.
The market also offers others.

However, Vcaps offer the better quality in terms of design and manufacture, and there are plenty of reviews about them, most of which are more than very good.
If something didn't work, it was always due to other reasons, never the capacitor itself.
The conversion of the Vcaps TFTF at the 6SN7 socket has nevertheless paid off, even if the purchase price was admittedly a little high.
The biggest disadvantage of this type of capacitor is the running-in time.
They need a minimum of 400h and are a bit big so that they just fit in the space.

There is another variant of Vcaps called CuTF.
This is the new variant that requires less break-in time and plays a little warmer than the TFTF.
And the TFTF are no longer manufactured and replaced by this.
Which is a bit of a shame because the TFTF offer exactly what Feliks is after.
Still, the CuTFs can be worthwhile in the end because you could possibly take a pure fully neutral tube like the Ps Vane as an example to get a balanced mix.
(The TFTF are largely neutral due to the Teflon, but are more complex in sound with much more expansion).

In my case, the 400h were necessary rather 450h where one had noticed now you are there.
Is it still possible to hear the Euforia during the play-in period?
Yes, that is possible without any problems.
Already after the first switch-on, after the tubes have heated up, you can feel the improvements.
But it gets better and better with time.
You can speed up the process by running it every day and documenting it so that you know you are approaching 400 hours.
In such a process it is also advisable to use tubes you don't like or can buy cheaply to save the good ones.

The main advantages I noticed were that the operating temperature dropped quite a bit.
It became less warm than usual, especially near the 6sn7 base.
The second advantage, which only became apparent later, was the tube combinations that could be used (more on this later).
A small disadvantage was the travel of the potentiometer in the volume.
You have to turn it up a bit more than usual, but I felt that the volume appears more even and starts a bit later, but I was not above 12 o'clock with the Lcd 2C.In retrospect I found the cause of this. More about this below.

Overall, however, a lot has happened in terms of sound.
When I switched it on for the first time, I noticed that the music sounded more flowing instead of edgy, more of a unified whole.
The basses hit more and are rounder and better in the finish and also come across more crisp (even with the Fostex Tr x00 headphones).
The mid-range and vocals are also better.
In the vocal range you hear much more body and power between man and woman, more authenticity and dynamics and the vocals shine through much better.
The midrange resolves better overall and also brightens up the stage presentation and the action better.

Details are also better resolved and come across better.
This continues into the treble range and the sweet spot is also very pleasant.
The treble doesn't distort at all, it's more defined and refined. With the Mundorfs I noticed that this often happened, that at a certain point the treble started to distort.
There, too, the body with the vcaps is well represented and never exaggerated or sharp.
The instrument representation is also better than before and more multi-layered.
Overall it remains transparent, more open, a little warmer but still neutral enough.
The most important thing to mention is that the condenser on the Euforia doesn't colour or distort anything. The pairing is much better than with the Mundorf, because the soft character that the Euforia brings is quite harmonious.

I have to say that there can be tonal differences between the tubes.
However, once you have found something that fits and harmonises, these descriptions really come into their own.
As an example I mention my favourite pairing Linlai 6SN7 and 6080 Mullard.
Before my conversion, it was very satisfactory.
After the conversion, unfortunately, not so much.

Why?

There was a lack of bass power, which surprised me, and the voice range sounded a little too distant, but that comes from the Mullards, especially the bass range, why the voice range was so distant I can't answer.
But apart from that, the Mullard gives a wonderful, light-footed reproduction of details that makes you melt away.
You have to try out what you personally like.
I don't want to give a direct recommendation because it's a matter of taste and also depends a bit on the headphones you use and also plays a role. So it may be that the Mullard goes better with a better headphone than with the Lcd 2C.
My Lcd 2C has benefited enormously from the upgrade in that I feel like I have a new pair of headphones.

Another advantage is that you can use tubes from the market that are cheap to buy.
I used a pair of tubes like a Hitachi Ultron (nos) paired with the Svetlana which gave excellent results.
The pair cost, roughly, 100$\€.
The pairing was clearly better than my favourite savings before the Linlai/Mullard conversion where had cost more to buy.
It takes a little time to find the right tube, but once you have found the one that works, you can enjoy it even more than before.
The Svetlana also benefits a little more with the conversion.
It is less masked in details than before and has positively surprised me why it is still popular in some circles.
She would be my favourite with the Vcap/Mundorf but the masking of the details still bothered me a bit.
If you love lowends, go for it.

Roughly summarised with the question is it worth it?
It certainly depends on the type of condenser, whether you use Teflon, propylene, wax/paper/foil.
The Vcap is undoubtedly superior to the Audionote, which is a little more expensive.
Considering what you sometimes spend on a set of tubes, the investment in the Vcap is reasonable and more profitable.
Disappointed missing nos tube purchases can be brought back to life and discovered all over again.
I bought the Tad 6sn7 which was actually re-labelled under the cheap Shuang tube.
I didn't like it before the rebuild, but after that I didn't even think it was bad.
Sometimes it's the little things that make the difference, they just come out better with the Vcap.
Apart from that, when it is properly paired with the tubes and sounds coherent, you get to know the Euforia in a new way.
The neutrality remains, the overall sound is warmer than usual and the softness is still there.
It also goes in the direction where I actually saw the Euforia.

All in all, I am personally impressed by the performance of the condenser, which has given me a lot of pleasure so far.
And I'm not looking back, no regrets or concerns have made the Euforia better.
I can only thank Myphone again for this.

The third step to give the Euforia another upgrade would be another capacitor conversion on the 6AS7G socket.
This is unfortunately not so easy to do that I respect doing it myself even if I found a way it was too dangerous for me.
My knowledge of electronics is also limited.
It looks like I have to dismantle a lot to get to the circuit board to do it properly.
On the early models I have seen that you have better access than on the current models.

I have decided to go to step 3.
I also found someone to do it for me who builds tube amps himself and doesn't live far away.
What there is to know:
The used Mundorf are the same as on the 6sn7 socket, only the values are different.
For the TFTF it will be difficult to get it there for space reasons, but it is possible.
But it could have too much neutrality in sound I guess and then sound more analytical.
The Vcap Odam is more suitable even if it is a bit bigger than the Mundorf.
And it offers more texture and transparency (see Rewiev on the net).
The second thing who does not use the preamp output leaves it as it is.
In this case only 4 capacitors are necessary instead of 6.

So 2 Vcap TFTF or CuTf for the 6SN7 socket and 2 Odam's for the 6AS7G socket, a total of 4 Odam's if you use the preamp output.
If you still use it, you can replace the Audyn or Jfx capacitor in one go without having to take everything apart again.
Unfortunately, I didn't find the preamp output very good, so the Odam will come in there as well.

I don't know yet what I will have to do in step 3.
It will be a similar way as the Vcap TFTF which will extend over several weeks with playing in, finding setup.
The Vcaps Odam's will come in at the 6AS7G socket.
What I hope for are similar results as with the TFTF.
Since the Odam is a bit different, I can imagine that it will round off the whole thing when you read all the positive reports.
And all the tubes will take another good step forward in terms of revelation.
And I'm looking forward to listening to the Svetlana again.

A small edit: Since the conversion has already taken place and the first hours have already been completed.
I can roughly say that the preamp output has benefited well.
On my Denon Pme800Ne it seems to play back more freely and no longer sounds wibbly but more open.
I found out that the capacitors only play in when it is connected to a load.
Since I haven't used it much in the past, it could be that the Audyn (Jfx) also needs time to open up.
As already written, I didn't like it as it was.



It is possible to run both at the same time, but you have to be careful with the potentiometer on the Euforia when the headphones are in, so that it doesn't get overloaded.
At the headphone output I roughly noticed that the low end is one step better but more in terms of resolution.
The bass range comes in earlier and sounds cleaner.
The midrange and treble range seem to have improved a bit more. It's a bit more like the icing on the cake that was perhaps still missing.
I would say the same for the vocal range.
But it's still too early to say for sure.
Because the 6SN7 Westinghouse tubes still need time to break in, as well as the fuse and the capacitors.
From the first impression there is nothing negative to report.
After 60 hours of playing in, the grin on my face lifts more and more, and I get to feel the first taste of the Odam.

As a conclusion and later addendum to step 3 and the fuse, a few words and notes.
The amplifier manufacturer, who has been on the market for over 30 years, was of the opinion that the Mundorf used was not the best.
Except in terms of neutrality and had already installed it himself.
He knew the Vcap TFTF and had also used it himself in his amplifiers.
With the conversion it can happen that certain tubes may no longer harm as before, this can also affect the favourite tubes.
It is then possible that a 6080,5998,7236 has to be exchanged or a well-known 6SN7 and vice versa for manufacturer X.
You then have to weigh up for yourself what you are missing.
Concerning the capacitors, I found out during my research that manufacturer X fitted better into loudspeakers than into amplifiers or that many of them were tested and reported in loudspeakers.
But they were not built into amplifiers and this can be misleading.
There are capacitors that can colour the sound, so it is important to do some research before you wake up in the morning, especially if you are sticking to the sound signature of the Euforia.

The Uf value is more important than the voltage value and should never be lower than what was installed.
On the new Euforia models, 0.22 Uf 630vdc was fitted as standard on the 6SN7 base and 2.20 Uf 250vdc on the 6AS7G from Mundorf.
I exchanged 0.22 Uf 600vdc TFTF at the 6sn7 socket and 2.20 Uf 400vdc Odam at the 6AS7G socket as at the preamp.
Of course it is noticeable that the Mundorf is 30volt stronger than the Vcap.
But fortunately I had no influence on that.
It is also advisable to open the back of the cover and read the capacitor value before ordering.
Myphone found out after comparing the values that there are differences in the Uf values of the capacitors between the old and new models.
His 6SN7 socket had a 0.33 Uf value and mine had a 0.22 uf value.
I bought the 0.33 Uf from Vcap blid instead of 0.22uf.
This made the travel of the volume potentiometer a little longer.
But this was not necessarily a disadvantage, the volume starts a little later than usual when turning, which is not necessarily wrong because there is more control at the volume pot.
But nevertheless, you should stick to the standard values as a minimum.
If you want to dive deeper, there is a kind of calculator on the Vcap page where you can go down again with the values, which is supposed to be better, but I'm staying out of it because I lack the knowledge in this regard.


----------



## shafat777

LoryWiv said:


> I think you will like the KR's! Keep us posted @shafat777.


Will do good sir. These are coming from UK so will be atleast a week. In the meantime, i m just gonna keep using the drive tubes w/o socket savers


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## LoryWiv

shafat777 said:


> Will do good sir. These are coming from UK so will be atleast a week. In the meantime, i m just gonna keep using the drive tubes w/o socket savers


The KR's excell at base / mids. You might wish to pair with bright-leaning powers, even the neutral GL KT88's work well.


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## shafat777 (Feb 17, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> The KR's excell at base / mids. You might wish to pair with bright-leaning powers, even the neutral GL KT88's work well.


Duely noted. Right now I have two sets of powers. both kt88. Currently using the psvane kt88 mk2. But I also have a set of gl kt88 just waiting to be called into action


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## LoryWiv

Man, I am just constantly amazed as to how versatile Elise is. Below I am running Sylvania VT-107A drivers, Mullard 6F6GT powers. Total heater current draw is 2.3A, approximately a third of Elise's maximum. All is running cool and the sound is wonderful.

I was thinking of looking for a good deal on Euforia AE, perhaps a show special at CanJam NYC which I plan to attend. I want to stay within the Elise-Euforia family as I have such a nice stock of compatible tubes. The way Elise is sounding tonight, I wonder how much better Euforia OG or Euforia AE can really be? Would love to hear from anyone who has experience comparing them.


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## Deleeh

Hello,
Basically, all 3 of you share the design in the circuit.
The Euforia amplifier has an additional crossfeed circuit built in, probably modified capacitors in it and silver wiring instead of copper like the Elise.
And have a little more power than the Elise.
The sound of the Elise is supposed to be warmer due to its copper wiring, the Euforia clearer but less warm and more neutral.

The AE model has different capacitors at the 6AS7G socket, different wiring, probably 20-25 mw more power and this paint finish.
That's all it is.

If you read my post above, you wouldn't necessarily be at the end of the road with the Elise and there would still be room for improvement for considerably less money.
If that doesn't convince you and you should buy an Euforia, then without tubes.


----------



## Dynamo5561

Hey guys!

Just joined the club. Some first impressions and questions:

The Euforia has a stunning design and is really well constructed! The coating is excellent, and the machining is flawless. 
In light of previous recent purchases, I don't think this is a given (looking at WA7 and Hifiman). Well done Feliks Audio!

With over ears the sound with the stock tubes is fine. Nothing to complain! 

Some points to share:

It can drive the Susvara depending on how loud you listen to your headphones. I listen to it at around 10 o'clock. When you turn to 1 o'clock and above the bass distorts significantly.

It can also drive the LCD-4z (15 Ohms) without issues. I was worried about that as recommended headphone impedance was specified higher.

Further, it drives IEMs without issues. I have hooked up the Traillii and the device is dead silent! Contrary to other stuff like the WA7 which sounds like a vacuum cleaner and is markted for "sensitive IEMs". 

Anyhow, but I don't like the combination with the Traillii. The bass loses controll with the stock tubes and it sounds like a bass shelf is added. So the "tube sound" is much more noticable on my IEMs than with the over ears I would say. Therefore I wanted to ask if you have some recommendations for new tubes that tighten the bass and add less warmth in the bass department. I prefer tube sound that affects the highs and timbre much more rather than adding warmth in the bass region as the stock tubes are doing.


----------



## LoryWiv

Congrats @Dynamo5561 ! I find the best bass combination I've had that is tight, not bloomy and preserves stellar mids / treble is Genalex Gold Lion KT-88 T88 new production KT88 tubes (with adapters) in power slot, paired with NOS  Ken Rad VT-231 drivers.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
And welcome @Dynamo5561 to the Feliks Club.
For a start, I wouldn't go for the Kt or anything that has anything to do with adapters.

I had a problem with the Euforia in the first 6 months that it had to go to the factory and was happy about the warranty processing.

I'm surprised that it drives with you and also the Suvara.
But I think the impression is similar to my Aeon R/T, it only works when played softly, when I turn the volume up it starts to distort.

If you have the stock tubes, they are very much tuned to the capacitors used, from my impression.
So as neutral as possible.
On my Lcd 2C, the bass was really flat at the time.
The 6080 Mullards and 6sn7 Linlai's Elite were the remedy.
But because it is an expensive pleasure, I would suggest trying a 6SN7 Westinghouse from the Nos range with the Svetlana or a 6080 Sylvania.
If you prefer a more lush bass with some forward voicing then a 6080 General Electric.
All tubes should be available for max 150$/€ or can be found.


----------



## Dynamo5561

Deleeh said:


> I'm surprised that it drives with you and also the Suvara.
> But I think the impression is similar to my Aeon R/T, it only works when played softly, when I turn the volume up it starts to distort.


I don't like listening with high volume. I use 4v into the Euforia from my DAC and can listen to the Susvara very comfortable with the volume knob on 9-10 position. The distortion starting at 1 o'clock is really crazy, I have not experienced that before. But I think that's normal with such a device and as said it's no issue at all for me as I would never listen so loud. I even did not expect it to drive the Susvara at all.



Deleeh said:


> If you have the stock tubes, they are very much tuned to the capacitors used, from my impression.
> So as neutral as possible.


I agree with over-ears, it's a quite neutral experience. And I have nothing to complain about the sound with my over ears. At this point it would be just tube rolling to find a more pleasing tuning. I only have issues with my IEMs. I know this device is probably not created for IEMs, but due to its very low noise level I would like to use it. 

The tube sound with the IEMs is much much more apparent than with my over-ears. It doesn't synergize well. As said the bass is loose and generally there is a bass shelf. I had Psvane 12AU7-S Art-Serie tubes with my WA7 and they were very good (only a tad graininess on the bass, sweet mids and rich highs + room timbre). That's what I am after ( no warmth or lift of the bass). 

I'll need to do some reading about the sound characteristics of the different tubes. But it's not that easy to find information + the available stock also do not extend the options


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
You are right, the Feliks Euforia is not designed to drive very low ohm headphones.
Even I had right problems with the Aeon R/T which is not necessarily hungry but very distorted.
Even though it's a planar headphone.

I don't think Feliks intended that either.
For Iem's and low headphones their would be Woo Audio or better a hybrid amp.

Regarding the tubes and understanding the Euforia.
Feliks wanted to build a very neutral OTL and they succeeded with some compromises.
The configuration as it is with the tubes is probably the most neutral one can achieve.

The PS Vane tubes are okay, but have quite strong weaknesses, they need a lot of time to burn in at least 400 hours.
They tend to weaken and then they get better and weaken again in time.
So we're talking about a process that takes a long time even with 8 hours a day.

The 6AS7G is okay, but not ideal in terms of tuning, it is too grainy (probably comes from the condenser) and masks the detail very strongly.
You will notice that when you change to a 6080, it will sound much more open and have more bite.

I can only tell you about the tubes I have tested and tried myself and even that is subjective.
I have a link here where you can have a look at all the tubes, which are well described in terms of their sound and hit the nerve quite well, but not always.

https://tubemaze.info/

As a tip, I can only say start small if you want to roll tubes.
Even cheap tubes are not automatically bad and have their advantages.
The mentioned 6SN7 Westinghouse is for me better than the Ps Vane, even the new Tungsol that is available for free I find more coherent.
The 6080 Sylvania is similar to the 6080 Mullard, it has a little more bass than the Mullard, but the bass response is not as good as the Mullard.
Otherwise they are very close to each other in my opinion.

Which Dac are you using?
Maybe you still have possibilities to adjust something with the filters ect....


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> You are right, the Feliks Euforia is not designed to drive very low ohm headphones.
> Even I had right problems with the Aeon R/T which is not necessarily hungry but very distorted.
> Even though it's a planar headphone.
> ...


Can you tell me what numbers appear on the Westinghouse 6SN7 tube? I am specially interested if the number 312 appears.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
i have the 337 the 312 i mean was an older production.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> i have the 337 the 312 i mean was an older production.


Westinghouse was not making tubes for a long time because of an anti-trust lawsuit and got back in the business late. The Westinghouse labeled tube that says 312 was made by Sylvania, but the tube with 337 on it was made by Westinghouse.
From what I have learnt over the years some tubes are better than others, in general, but equally important is the synergy between tubes. In other words, the combinations of tubes is critical. In addition, certain amps are designed differently than others, and one tube can sound great in one amp and not so good in another.
There is a lot of hype out there, and there is not much correlation between price and good sound, although sellers and some manufacturers are pushing this theory. 
You also have to remember that you, as an individual, only need a couple of tubes of a kind, whereas the manufacturer must have a readily available supply of large quantities of tubes. This usually means today that the manufacturer has to use new production tubes or older tubes that are still available in large quantities which usually means Russian tubes (although many Russian tubes are very good).
But you, as an individual, can hunt down more rare tubes that sound great, and they don't have to cost a lot of money either. And this is where the various threads on Head-Fi can be very helpful.


----------



## Deleeh

From what I've read, I think the 312 was made in Asia, in Japan, and the 337 in America.
Have a look at 6SN7 threath where someone explained it.
Apparently there are also optical differences.
I bought mine on 29.12.21 and the same week I asked my question.
But the background story of Westinghouse I did not know so far.Thanks for the info.

I think the 337 sounds pretty good, good bass extension, great midrange and treble.
Can offer really good dirty low end with the Svetlana.

I know what you mean about synergy, it took me a while to find something that fitted.
I like the 6SN7 Nec in the hybrid amplifier better than in the Euforia as an example, but in the end it's all a matter of taste and preferred listening habits.

At the moment, since the conversion, I have the cheapest tubes you can get.
Svetlana and 6SN7 Foton.
Although it is still playing in, I don't want to change anything at the moment.
Everything is there that I wanted and prefer.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> From what I've read, I think the 312 was made in Asia, in Japan, and the 337 in America.
> Have a look at 6SN7 threath where someone explained it.
> Apparently there are also optical differences.
> I bought mine on 29.12.21 and the same week I asked my question.
> ...


Just to clarify, in the United States the Electronics Industry Association (EIA) issued three digit codes for North American manufacturers. Below is a list of the codes and the corresponding manufacturers:


*Tubes **EIA code*Amperex (USA) 111Bendix125DuMont158Eimac (Eitel-McCullough, Inc)162Electronic Tube Corp169General Electric Co (USA)188Hytron (CBS-Hytron)210Machlett231RCA (Radio Corp of America)274Raytheon280Superior Tube Co310Sylvania (Hygrade Sylvania Corp)312Tung-Sol322United Electronics323Western Electric336Westinghouse337Zenith Radio Corp (CRT's)343North American Philips Corp423Taylor (aka Cetron-Taylor)713Lewis & Kaufman738National Electronics (also Cetron)749Penta Laboratories771Vacuum Tube Products781Varian Associates809Litton Industries879Electrons, Inc935

Here you can easily see that 312 stands for Sylvania and 337 for Westinghouse. These codes are useful when a tube is rebranded; many times you can find the manufcturer's EIA code on it, and you will know that a Motorola tube was made by Sylvania as an example.
The most common that you will find are GE - 188, RCA - 278, Raytheon - 280, Sylvania - 312, Tung-Sol - 322 and Westinghouse - 337.
No foreign manufacturer used these numbers.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Oouu super thanks for the info that is of course very helpful.
Okay then, what I was told about it is wrong.
They are both U-tubes, so to speak.
The only thing you could assume now is that the 312 is a re-labelled Westinghouse.
And your theory is probably more correct with the patent infringement.


----------



## barontan2418

Euforia has a new partner HPA4.  Just waiting for my Hugo TT to return with new batteries (V800) standing in at the moment.


----------



## Henrim

Hi all,

I got the LinLai 6sn7 as Deleeh suggested. With the stock 6sn13 tubes I looove them! Sounds very delicate and musical. They are a bit warm, but still nowhere near 'warm' or woollie or anything. 

I've been getting in loudspeakers, my speaker system is laid back with nice midrange timbre. Since then I've been finding the Utopia fatiguing, I swapped out the Qutest DAC for my entry level Audio-GD, which I've preferred for it's softer sound (albiet, at a loss of soundstage, layering and imaging). But even still, I'm seeking an even more laid back sound. 

Any suggestions? Different power tubes is my preferred approach, thinking about trying EL34 and praying for low hum with Utopias. Adapers and external heaters are on the cards, but I prefer to stay away from expensive NOS.


----------



## myphone

Impression of parts change (instead of using the word "mod") in an early production Euforia (2017).

Like all OTL, Euforia has simple signal path: potentiometer -> input capacitor -> 6SN7 tube -> inter-stage resistor -> 6AS7 tube - output-coupling Capacitor -> headphone.

Parts changed: 1) input capacitor (from Mundorf to Vcap TFTF (Teflon Fluoropolymer film and tin foil) capacitors; 2) Output coupling capacitor (from electrolytic capacitor to WIMA metalized polypropylene Capacitor 100uF;  3) potentiometer to Shunt attenuator (Holco resistor to Vishay Z-foil TX2575 resistors).

Systems in use: 6SN7/12SX7/6AS7/6080/WE421a tubes; Sennheiser HD 650/600/800; Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. 

First part change: input capacitor to VCap TFTF: Everything opens up significantly, transparency, sound stage, resolution, and openness. I have used VCap TFTF since 2006 in OTL power amps (Atma-Sphere, highly recommended by manufacturer), with similar good results.

Second part change: Output coupling electrolytic capacitors to WIMA metalized polypropylene Capacitors 100uF. Original capacitor was 470uF. I only use headphones > 300 ohms (-3bd < 5hz). Results are very similar to input capacitor change. End results are additive. 
Reasons for using WIMA: Apex Teton OTL amp (US$5000) uses WIMA as output coupling capacitor; size of WIMA fits Euforia Chassis (barely); supply chain issues for more exotic capacitors (Mundorf supreme Evo oil/Vcap OIMP oil polypropylene), and concern of oil capacitors leak in hot operating environment.

Input capacitor change increases Euforia performance a couple of levels higher. Output capacitor change increases Euforia performance another couple of additional levels higher

Third part change: potentiometer to shunt attenuator: first Holco resistor - like what I heard, and then changed to Vishay Z-foil TX2575 resistors: improvement is quite noticeable. Hard to describe: feels "Calmer".

Overall Change after parts change: Amp becomes a much more revealing platform: each tube and headphone combination characteristics are much more prominent. Feels like one is in a much larger space with cleaner air. Everything is clearer and closer. Sound is more "neutral".

With right combination of tubes and headphones, Sylvania VT231/RCA 5692/RCA 12SX7/WE421a/GEC6AS7/GEC6080/HD650/HD800, Euforia just sounds glorious: HD 800 shows magnificent sonic bliss - huge sound stage, and clear instrument separation with performance phrasing and music flow: HD 650 is oh so seductive, organic, and relaxing - like warm blanket in a winter night, not stylish, just comfortable. 

To me, it means Euforia is well designed, and built,. It could perform at very high level. Be be fair, like any other amps, parts used are for certain price point.

I am very happy with the parts swaps.


----------



## incredulousity

I just do tube swaps on my AE. I’ve shown this combo before, but the dark pic is pretty good for iPhone work.


----------



## Galapac

incredulousity said:


> I just do tube swaps on my AE. I’ve shown this combo before, but the dark pic is pretty good for iPhone work.


What adapters are you using for the power sockets to have 2 big tubes per socket?
I recognize the Gold Lion KT 88s in the front.
Are you running KT66 ans 6AS7Gs in the back?


----------



## incredulousity

Galapac said:


> What adapters are you using for the power sockets to have 2 big tubes per socket?
> I recognize the Gold Lion KT 88s in the front.
> Are you running KT66 ans 6AS7Gs in the back?


Deyan adapters and powered “socket savers.”

In back are TS 5998 and KT150. In front are GL KT88. I love this combination. You absolutely cannot do it without external power for the tube heater current.


----------



## Alu

I finally caved and got myself one of those fabled TS 5998 pairs - matched even - for a less than reasonable price.
Initial impressions are superior detail and incredible staging (on stock drivers), but they have an audible hum (very very minor) on the - you guessed it - Utopia (on both channels obviously, so the tubes aren't faulty).
I feel like I would prefer these to any other powers I have on my Verite C for example - must spend more time with them on those - but swapping tubes every time I swap headphones just isn't what I want for me personally, so I'll keep these gorgeous looking tubes somewhere else while I go back to the GEC 6080, which have become such an absolute favourite of mine.
I think in my current setup they beat the 5998.

On a related note: Does anyone have an idea where I can find display stands for tubes - or some see through tube sized boxes? There are only so many ways I can google "Valve tubes display stand" or "holder". I have a 3d printer so that could be an option (perhaps something like this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4632956).


----------



## JTbbb

Alu said:


> I finally caved and got myself one of those fabled TS 5998 pairs - matched even - for a less than reasonable price.
> Initial impressions are superior detail and incredible staging (on stock drivers), but they have an audible hum (very very minor) on the - you guessed it - Utopia (on both channels obviously, so the tubes aren't faulty).
> I feel like I would prefer these to any other powers I have on my Verite C for example - must spend more time with them on those - but swapping tubes every time I swap headphones just isn't what I want for me personally, so I'll keep these gorgeous looking tubes somewhere else while I go back to the GEC 6080, which have become such an absolute favourite of mine.
> I think in my current setup they beat the 5998.
> ...


I have also found the Utopia’s to be a little finicky with tube selection, whereas the HD800S takes all in it’s stride! With my combo the RCA Grey Glass seems to sync nicely with the Utopia’s.


----------



## Alu

JTbbb said:


> I have also found the Utopia’s to be a little finicky with tube selection, whereas the HD800S takes all in it’s stride! With my combo the RCA Grey Glass seems to sync nicely with the Utopia’s.


All of you are definitely making me want some HD800 as well.
What are you using with the RCAs for the Utopia?


----------



## JTbbb

Alu said:


> All of you are definitely making me want some HD800 as well.
> What are you using with the RCAs for the Utopia?


421A’s at present. I think what I am really discovering with the Utopia’s out of Euforia, is that if there is a marginal amount of hum with a tube, which is barely noticeable with the 300ohm HD800S’s, the Utopia’s seem to exaggerate it. The Utopia’s out of my SS amp are totally silent.


----------



## connieflyer

barontan2418 said:


> Euforia has a new partner HPA4.  Just waiting for my Hugo TT to return with new batteries (V800) standing in at the moment.


How do you like the HPA4? Have been looking at one of these and the Violectric V226. Nice assortment of gear, congrats


----------



## barontan2418

connieflyer said:


> How do you like the HPA4? Have been looking at one of these and the Violectric V226. Nice assortment of gear, congrats


Hello CF.
Only just got my Chord back so need more listening time. Slightly worried that running TT as dac for HPA4 I'm in the realms of double amping? Keeping a weather eye out for reasonably priced Benchmark dac3b at the same time.


----------



## connieflyer

I have wondered that same thing in the past. If you can use one and the other as amp with no leakage should work. I did not have good luck that way though. Wish you luck. Looking at a SS amp, to flesh out my listening.


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> I have wondered that same thing in the past. If you can use one and the other as amp with no leakage should work. I did not have good luck that way though. Wish you luck. Looking at a SS amp, to flesh out my listening.


Hello there, I don’t think you would go far wrong with a S/H TT2. And another DAC to play with too.


----------



## Galapac

Alu said:


> I finally caved and got myself one of those fabled TS 5998 pairs - matched even - for a less than reasonable price.
> Initial impressions are superior detail and incredible staging (on stock drivers), but they have an audible hum (very very minor) on the - you guessed it - Utopia (on both channels obviously, so the tubes aren't faulty).
> I feel like I would prefer these to any other powers I have on my Verite C for example - must spend more time with them on those - but swapping tubes every time I swap headphones just isn't what I want for me personally, so I'll keep these gorgeous looking tubes somewhere else while I go back to the GEC 6080, which have become such an absolute favourite of mine.
> I think in my current setup they beat the 5998.
> ...


I heard these vial stands work well. I haven’t used them though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353320528483


----------



## mayurs

Any lead to acquire a set of Bendix or GEC 6080 tubes at a reasonable price and in a good condition for my Euforia will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance but I can't seem to find these anywhere.


----------



## mordy

mayurs said:


> Any lead to acquire a set of Bendix or GEC 6080 tubes at a reasonable price and in a good condition for my Euforia will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance but I can't seem to find these anywhere.


The prices are unfortunately going through the roof... There is a British very reputable seller that has used GEC 6080 tubes for a lower price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> The prices are unfortunately going through the roof... There is a British very reputable seller that has used GEC 6080 tubes for a lower price:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


Also found a seller of used 7 Bendix 6080 tubes for a reasonable price (don't know what the auction is going to end on; two hours left):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144431075949?hash=item21a0c3526d:g:j88AAOSwOZZiF6oK


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> Also found a seller of used 7 Bendix 6080 tubes for a reasonable price (don't know what the auction is going to end on; two hours left):
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144431075949?hash=item21a0c3526d:g:j88AAOSwOZZiF6oK


This auction ended up after 49(!) bids - each tube cost $63 which is Ok, but maybe you don't need seven...
Anyhow, I do want to point out that if you have patience and learn to identify tubes under rebranded or other names, you will find bargains and low prices.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
But this only applies to the 6sn7 tubes,
With the 6as7g,6080,5992 7230, however, it looks a little less good.

Or am I mistaken?


----------



## myphone

The same seller sold 3 sets of Bendix 6080 on March 01 (I did not bid high as i have plenty): 4 labeled as Bendix 6080 sold for $352; 10 labeled as Tung-sol (5 are Bendix graphic column) sold for $ 177;   and 5 labeled as Chatham 6080 (all Bendix graphic column) sold for $ 265.

Key is to know what is listed not just described. Mordy is right: you have patience and learn to identify tubes under rebranded or other names


----------



## mordy

myphone said:


> The same seller sold 3 sets of Bendix 6080 on March 01 (I did not bid high as i have plenty): 4 labeled as Bendix 6080 sold for $352; 10 labeled as Tung-sol (5 are Bendix graphic column) sold for $ 177;   and 5 labeled as Chatham 6080 (all Bendix graphic column) sold for $ 265.
> 
> Key is to know what is listed not just described. Mordy is right: you have patience and learn to identify tubes under rebranded or other names


In the past (when prices were lower) I managed to get three GEC 6080 at a low price. Those tubes had no manufacturer markings and the seller did not know what they were. And I also bought three Bendix 6080WB relabeled as Raytheon from a fellow headfier for a good price.
Recently I bought a couple of Telefunken tubes with the diamond logo but relabeled Siemens for around a third of the price of the same tube labeled Telefunken.


----------



## Alu

Galapac said:


> I heard these vial stands work well. I haven’t used them though.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/353320528483


Oh wow!
That might be exactly what I'm looking for - they don't seem to ship internationally but now I have a better idea of what else could work.


----------



## Galapac

Alu said:


> Oh wow!
> That might be exactly what I'm looking for - they don't seem to ship internationally but now I have a better idea of what else could work.


For some other ideas I have seen people use upside down egg cartons or if your handy with wood you could use those hole cutters to fashion one yourself.
I went ahead an ordered a 10 hole foam stand 30mm. Will see how it works and report back.
I think most octals are about 30mm so should work well.
I only need it for the few sets I like to tube roll depending on my music tastes of the day.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> I have wondered that same thing in the past. If you can use one and the other as amp with no leakage should work. I did not have good luck that way though. Wish you luck. Looking at a SS amp, to flesh out my listening.


HI CF, hope you are well. is the bloom off the rose with your Euforia AE or are you just looking to have another option for variety?


----------



## Alu

Thanks again for the vial holder idea - I found one for larger vials on amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09DYH135R) and it kind of looks exactly what I'd want it to.


----------



## connieflyer

LoryWiv said:


> HI CF, hope you are well. is the bloom off the rose with your Euforia AE or are you just looking to have another option for variety? No service still like the AAE quite well. I was just looking to try something a little different. I tried using my anthem AV amplifier with the headphones and I was surprised how good it sounded so I thought I would start looking around at solid state amps just to see what I may or may not be missing! Hope all is well with you


----------



## Deleeh

Hey @Alu,
what are in the Square enix inside?
Final Fantasy games for Playstation? Looking good


----------



## Alu

Deleeh said:


> Hey @Alu,
> what are in the Square enix inside?
> Final Fantasy games for Playstation? Looking good


They are all of the Final Fantasy 14 Soundtracks.


----------



## Deleeh

Ahh okay cool.
Year nice Sound from Final Fantasy.
I love FF7 Soundtrack,😁.


----------



## mayurs

I got a load of these Tung Sol 6SN7GT and do they sound good on the Euforia. They just might become my favourite 6SN7 tubes even on the first listen.


----------



## JTbbb

mayurs said:


> I got a load of these Tung Sol 6SN7GT and do they sound good on the Euforia. They just might become my favourite 6SN7 tubes even on the first listen.


Looks like you have bagged yourself some nice Tung sol black glass tubes there. They are indeed nice sounding tubes.


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
Anybody heard the Kennerton Planars  (Thor or thekk) with the Euforia?.
Would love to hear some remarks before jumping in.. I have the Magnis and am impressed, but they are dynamics.
Thanks


----------



## Deleeh

aqsw said:


> Hey guys,
> Anybody heard the Kennerton Planars  (Thor or thekk) with the Euforia?.
> Would love to hear some remarks before jumping in.. I have the Magnis and am impressed, but they are dynamics.
> Thanks


Hello,
I haven't heard either headphone.
And therefore cannot say anything.
But purely from the drive, I would say it should go to the Euforia.
The Lcd 2C has 70 ohm and works without problems.
The only thing is that the tubes may have to be adjusted, which is of course a matter of taste, I didn't like the stock tubes with the Lcd2C.

I still have the Aeon R/T at home with 14 ohm and the Euforia doesn't do that.
It distorts quite a bit.

Since your 2 headphones are 42 ohm, you would be in the middle of what the Lcd2C has, so you won't hear any hum, as can happen with 32 or lower dynamic headphones.


----------



## OctavianH

A very good offer for Euforia from Germany here.


----------



## Deleeh (Mar 19, 2022)

Yes, he was only here for a short time.
He bought it new and quickly discarded it.
I also just saw that he bought the fake Linlai tubes, as it looks like.
These are not the original Linlai tubes that Linlai sells and distributes.

But the offer is okay considering what the Euforia costs now.
By the way, has anyone heard the Audeze Lcd 3 on the Euforia?
Did it cope with the current 110 Ohm version or was there a kink in the performance?


----------



## OctavianH

He is a very nice person. I spoke with him in several PMs. I guess he did not find in Euforia what he was looking for, but he is a trustable seller, this is the reason I posted here for people which are interested. The Sylvania 7236 are very good tubes. I have no idea about Linlay, but I think those have to be decent. I had no idea about Linlai being fake, after all they are chinese tubes. Chinese faking chinese? What. LOL.


----------



## Deleeh

I can't judge, but it sounds good.

There are indeed a few Linlai fakes, Linlai also points out on their website.

Linlai just calls itself Linlai, it's also on mine, others use names like Linlai Tube.
I asked about this because I was interested in the hi-fi version and unfortunately I didn't get an answer from Linlai themselves.
But from Rachel from Premiumvaccumtubes, she couldn't say 100%.
Her answer was rather buy them from me if you want to be sure,lool.

I wrote to the sellers in China who sell the tube called Linlai Tube because the price was good but the shipping was an absurd $140 extra.
I asked if they were duty paid etc and they said no again.
So you really get screwed.
So it's more like a pawnshop, offer cheap and slap the rest price on it in shipping.

I don't buy anything from China anymore, the last socketsavers I bought I can throw in the bin.65$ for crap.


----------



## Dynamo5561 (Mar 19, 2022)

I'm actually not 100% sure if I want to sell it. And definitely not because of the sound. And I hit the bull's eye for me with the tube setup. Very clear and expansive sound. Great upgrade over the stock tubes. I have a MHA200 as well and I prefer the Euforia sound wise but the MHA200 fits better to my desk  Need to decide this weekend, one needs to go.

Regarding the Linlai tubes, I have bought them here: https://btb-elektronik.de/en/produc...-series-tubes-factory-matched-tube-pair-2pcs/
I don't think they are fakes or similar, it's a very reputable seller here.


----------



## OctavianH

Deleeh said:


> I don't buy anything from China anymore, the last socketsavers I bought I can throw in the bin.65$ for crap.


You can try to discuss with Deyan  for adapters, he makes quite good quality ones.

Regarding BTB, I have bought my pair of Psvane CV181T2 from them and they were ok. At that time I spoke with some people from the shop and they were very nice. So from my point of view BTB is a good option for tubes in Europe.


----------



## Magol79

My experience with BTB has been good too. I bought a pair of RCA 6AS7G tubes from them.


----------



## Deleeh (Mar 19, 2022)

That's strange.
Take a look at mine, they are completely different.
These are the ones I ordered in Canada and they definitely come from Linlai.

I don't know where BTB got theirs.

The MHA200 would have appealed to me and would have been my replacement if the Euforia had gone back.
I waited for the first reports and when the first people complained about the volume control, it was over for me.
It's just not acceptable for a name like Mcintosh to pull such crap at such a price.
I have to ask why the Pole gets it better.😁
I think Mcintosh is otherwise good, but something like this just doesn't work.
The excuse to come up with a preamp that is also about to be launched from their company is an impertinence.
It's not cheap either.

Edit:
Yes thanks to the reminder from Deyan.That would even still be an option to maybe get the savers dead silent.Didn't even think of that anymore,jeez.
Thank you, I will take it into account. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏


----------



## Dynamo5561

All the tubes advertised on the Linlai website have the "modern" linlai font as yours. 

But when you look on many other platforms they show the tubes that I have. I have just sent Linlai a message and asked about it. 

The volume knob issue on the MHA200 is actually not so bad. You just need to be a bit carefull with it. The implementation does not make much sense, but it's also far away from unusable.


----------



## greenmac (Mar 20, 2022)

Looking for recommendations for source / dac units with similar footprint to Euforia

What have people found to complement the Euforia ?

Thanks


----------



## mordy (Mar 20, 2022)

Dynamo5561 said:


> I'm actually not 100% sure if I want to sell it. And definitely not because of the sound. And I hit the bull's eye for me with the tube setup. Very clear and expansive sound. Great upgrade over the stock tubes. I have a MHA200 as well and I prefer the Euforia sound wise but the MHA200 fits better to my desk  Need to decide this weekend, one needs to go.
> 
> Regarding the Linlai tubes, I have bought them here: https://btb-elektronik.de/en/produc...-series-tubes-factory-matched-tube-pair-2pcs/
> I don't think they are fakes or similar, it's a very reputable seller here.


Grant Fidelity in Canada is the distributor for Linlai tubes. In the past they have claimed that companies that sell the tubes cheaper than them are selling B-stock.
Many companies go to great lengths to dissuade people from buying "gray market" merchandise and my gut feeling is that you cannot take these statements at face value...
On the Linlai website they have 6SN7 tubes that are only sold wholesale, and then others that people can order and the prices are different.
IMHO it is very easy for a manufacturer to change the print and the box of a tube, but difficult to come up with a different tube of the same designation. Personally, I find it very suspicious when a manufacturer has three different versions of the same tube at very different price points. In the old days there were regular and long life versions of the same tube, but that was it. A tube that was in production over many years could get changes in the internals as well with possible changes in sound, but you would not find different versions of the same tube produced at the same time.


----------



## Deleeh

The Linlai as 6SN7 is available in 2 versions.
One is the Hifi version and the other is the Elite version.
Apart from the price difference, I don't know the differences between them.
I can't tell if it's because of the measurements or the construction.
Similar to the Ps Vane where you can still find the Hifi and Gold Edition.

I suspect that there are nuances in the sound.

The other version they still offer is only available to manufacturers or wholesalers.
I assume that it is also a hi-fi version and that there is a minimum purchase quantity.
I don't know if it's technically different again.
It would be possible, but it doesn't have to be.

The Linlai's differ mainly in 2 versions Elite and non Elite.
As far as the lettering is concerned, I think Linlai is following a clear line.
However, it would be good to know because it is irritating.
Even though it wouldn't really matter, it's the inner structure that's important.

@greenmac do you have anything special in mind?
Possibly also a budget limit?
Since the Euforia amp is mostly neutral, you usually need something warm and powerful.
I like it very much with Akm,Wolfson chip.
Wolfson no longer exists and was bought up by Cirrus Logic, which are actually two manufacturers that bring a musical touch.
Ess dacs sound quite cool in comparison.
Many have also had great experiences with Chord devices.
Something like the Bitfrost from Schiit.


----------



## greenmac

Thanks @Deleeh 

Ideally small box, Chord Qutest or HUGO2 

Also like the Hifi Rose range / Bluseound Vault ?


----------



## Renexx (Mar 20, 2022)

greenmac said:


> Thanks @Deleeh
> 
> Ideally small box, Chord Qutest or HUGO2
> 
> Also like the Hifi Rose range / Bluseound Vault ?



Chord Qutest did a great job with the Euphoria for me. Especially staging and separation was quite superior to the delta sigma dac i had before.

Selling mine right now in the classifieds due to expensive upgrade


----------



## Deleeh

greenmac said:


> Thanks @Deleeh
> 
> Ideally small box, Chord Qutest or HUGO2
> 
> Also like the Hifi Rose range / Bluseound Vault ?


I would still distance myself from the Hugo 2.
It is still relatively new and some people have already complained about the menu navigation.
And there are not so many field reports yet, and the long-term report is still missing.

You would probably be better off with the Outtest and, as luck would have it, Renexx is offering it at a fairly fair price.
Especially at the present time, second-hand purchases are very much in demand and also worthwhile.
I've read good things about Hifi Rose, but I've never heard of them, but they're in a different league.
You can keep your hands off the Bluesound stuff.
I recently had the node 130N there and it was terrible.
The support they advertise is some self-appointed dealer offering help.
Here in Germany I have to say it was a complete catastrophe, they have no idea themselves and couldn't answer any of my questions.
I am surprised that Bluesound has received the Roon certificate.
I was also disappointed with the sound.


----------



## Dynamo5561

So I got in contact with Linlai and the BTB. The "modern" logo is protected by the Canadian distributor. All other distributors get the version with the other logo. Even the ones sold directly in China. So it is not any kind of sign that shows if the tubes are fake or not.


----------



## Deleeh

Dynamo5561 said:


> So I got in contact with Linlai and the BTB. The "modern" logo is protected by the Canadian distributor. All other distributors get the version with the other logo. Even the ones sold directly in China. So it is not any kind of sign that shows if the tubes are fake or not.


Hello,
Thanks for the info.
That's a bit irritating but good to know it seems that way when you see the other lettering.
I think even Linlai has this logo on their product page like I have.
I find that confusing.
Or at least a side note would be helpful.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## mordy

IMHO the distributor wants to protect their pricing and by having different lettering they can claim that others that undersell them are selling inferior merchandise.
It defies common sense that a company ( especially a new company ) would sell defective merchandise which could ruin their reputation.


----------



## barbz127 (Mar 25, 2022)

Odd one, would anyone else describe the stock tubes and the VC or VO as slightly bright at times?

I'm finding I prefer the Elise to euforia with both verites but just looking at the two amps I can tell the euforia is a better build (tube sockets and rca).

Will/can tubes make things a bit darker ? / Can I swap tubes in the euforia to mimic the sound of the higher output Impedance'd Elise?


----------



## LoryWiv

barbz127 said:


> Odd one, would anyone else describe the stock tubes and the VC or VO as slightly bright at times?
> 
> I'm finding I prefer the Elise to euforia with both verites but just looking at the two amps I can tell the euforia is a better build (tube sockets and rca).
> 
> Will/can tubes make things a bit darker ? / Can I swap tubes in the euforia to mimic the sound of the *higher output Impedance*'d Elise?


Is Euforia lower output impedance than Elise? I thought they were similar in that regard.


----------



## barbz127

LoryWiv said:


> Is Euforia lower output impedance than Elise? I thought they were similar in that regard.


~50ohm on Elise and ~25 on euforia from what I can see


----------



## Deceneu808

LoryWiv said:


> Is Euforia lower output impedance than Elise? I thought they were similar in that regard.


Elise has 72 ohm, while Euforia AE about 62 ohm


----------



## barbz127

Deceneu808 said:


> Elise has 72 ohm, while Euforia AE about 62 ohm


Looking at your sign you are running the Elise with some ZmF; have you heard the euforia with the same headphones?


----------



## Deceneu808

barbz127 said:


> Looking at your sign you are running the Elise with some ZmF; have you heard the euforia with the same headphones?


Sorry not heard the Euforia


----------



## Renexx

barbz127 said:


> have you heard the euforia with the same headphones


Pure sonic bliss with Euphoria AE and ZMF headphones. Very good synergy with the high output impedance to the ZMF drivers and the warm nature of most of 6sn7/6as7 tubes.

If you want a lush , smooth sound with good technicalities then that's the way to go. I enjoy it alot


----------



## barbz127

Renexx said:


> Pure sonic bliss with Euphoria AE and ZMF headphones. Very good synergy with the high output impedance to the ZMF drivers and the warm nature of most of 6sn7/6as7 tubes.
> 
> If you want a lush , smooth sound with good technicalities then that's the way to go. I enjoy it alot


What pads on what ZmF and stock tubes on the AE?

Thankyou


----------



## Renexx (Mar 25, 2022)

barbz127 said:


> What pads on what ZmF and stock tubes on the AE?
> 
> Thankyou


Useally I tube roll alot and just go back to stock tubes to appreciate the NOS tubes even more.
Stock tubes are not even burned in but that doesn't change my pad choices. My favourites are:

Camphor burl VO - BE2 hybrids
Olive VC - Universe lambskin or suedes 
Cocobolo Aeolus - Universe Suedes

Hard woods sound very good on the Euphoria.

I like the warm side of things useally the most. The AE is not overly warm itself but still very rich and colored with most tubes. There are fairly neutral choices also.


----------



## barbz127

Renexx said:


> Useally I tube roll alot and just go back to stock tubes to appreciate the NOS tubes even more.
> Stock tubes are not even burned in but that doesn't change my pad choices. My favourites are:
> 
> Camphor burl VO - BE2 hybrids
> ...


Thankyou


----------



## Quince

I am using euforia AE with stock tubes + VC with verité pads and Lavri grand cable. I would describe the combination as being on the warm side of neutral.


----------



## SlothRock

Hey all - new to the tube amp game but thinking of going straight to the “top” with a used Euforia AE on the market here. I’ve been reading about tube shortages with the war currently going on plus everything else of course. Any reason for concern with the Euforia AE as far as the types of tubes it takes or would there be no foreseeable issues with supply? Obviously for now just thinking about stock tube replacement when they eventually die vs very difficult to find tubes


----------



## Renexx

SlothRock said:


> Hey all - new to the tube amp game but thinking of going straight to the “top” with a used Euforia AE on the market here. I’ve been reading about tube shortages with the war currently going on plus everything else of course. Any reason for concern with the Euforia AE as far as the types of tubes it takes or would there be no foreseeable issues with supply? Obviously for now just thinking about stock tube replacement when they eventually die vs very difficult to find tubes


I think mostly stock tubes supplies for manufacturers of hifi and guitar amps are affected.
They need cheap tubes in big quantity for their products.
Those cheap tubes are not very sought after by audiophiles like us.

Did you go for the Euphoria because of my advise in the other thread?👍


----------



## SlothRock

Renexx said:


> I think mostly stock tubes supplies for manufacturers of hifi and guitar amps are affected.
> They need cheap tubes in big quantity for their products.
> Those cheap tubes are not very sought after by audiophiles like us.
> 
> Did you go for the Euphoria because of my advise in the other thread?👍



Haha yup I am! I am still torn honestly between just starting at the echo and going to the top - the deal on the Euforia in the market is actually a great deal so I’m kinda leaning that way mainly cuz if I don’t like it I can end up recouping my costs pretty easily. Not really any echo mark ii’s or Elise mark ii’s on the market from what I can see


----------



## Renexx (Mar 26, 2022)

If you can afford it get yourself some nice NOS tubes for the Euphoria and it will really shine with your ZMF headphones!
I did go straight for the Euphoria also for my first tube amp. There is no way going back to SS now. Love the sonic  tone and smoothness it provides.

I did roll my mullard ecc32 with 5998 today and it's just a glorious holy grail listen with the best staging capabilities


----------



## SlothRock

Welp....I just did it lol I just bought the Euforia 20th Anniversary Edition from the classifieds. Now I will never have to wonder "what if" about tube amps and can hear what one of the best tube amps out there is gonna sound like. Beyond stoked!


----------



## Renexx (Mar 26, 2022)

I'm always questioning if the Euphoria is one of the best tube amps since I never heard others.
Some reviews in forums are quite bad for it and say it's not the best for the money. Especially since it took 2 price raises since release.

But my sonic impressions of the Euphoria and Tuberolling makes it quite fun and most important very joyful and rewarding to listen for me. Barely any  tube noise is also a big benefit. Other amps seem to struggle with it.

My new DAC pushes the technical capabilities very far and the Euphoria finishes it off with a lovely tone. 

First impression of the Euphoria was dissapointing. Stock tubes are so boring. Tuberolling makes a lot of fun and slowly you will identify the tremendous synergy to your ZMF headphones.


----------



## SlothRock

Interesting - I haven't read a bad thing about it yet! Either way, since I'm buying it at a used price I feel like I'm going the "safe" route. I saved a lot on it and, if I don't end up gelling with it, I won't lose a lot if I re-sell it again.


----------



## Magol79

Currently rolling Ken-Rad VT-231 and WE421A. 
I find this tube roll to have good synergy with my newly acquired Eikon. Gives it more body and kick. 

What are some tube and headphone combinations you are enjoying right now?


----------



## swissheadphonelover

Actually Melz 1578 and GEC 6080 with ZMF VO


----------



## Renexx

Mullard Ecc32 + 5998 with ZMF VO 

Big staging


----------



## Magol79

swissheadphonelover said:


> Actually Melz 1578 and GEC 6080 with ZMF VO


I really must try the Melz tubes, I am looking for more alternatives to my 6SN7 tubes. I switch between the Ken-Rad VT-231, Tung Sol 6SN7WGT, CBS 6SN7GTB Short Bottle, Psvane CV181-T-MII and Shuguang Black Treasure CV181-Z.


Renexx said:


> Mullard Ecc32 + 5998 with ZMF VO
> 
> Big staging


The Mullard ECC32s are on my dream list to try one day. 

I didn't have my Euforia when I had the VO, I was still on the Espressivo mkII back then. Would have been fun to try though. 

Cheers!


----------



## greenmac

What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


----------



## Magol79

greenmac said:


> What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


RME ADI-2 (AKM 4493)


----------



## incredulousity

Magol79 said:


> RME ADI-2 (AKM 4493)


Same here. Excellent pairing.


----------



## SlothRock

Mine arrives tomorrow but I'll be pairing it with a Bifrost 2


----------



## MHLC

I like how it is paired with the Denafrips Ares II so much so that I went and upgraded to the Pontus... It also pairs very well with the Doge7 and BorderPatrol SE for some tube on tube action.


----------



## greenmac

Was looking at Denafrips Ares


----------



## MHLC

greenmac said:


> Was looking at Denafrips Ares


The Ares paired amazingly well with most of the amps I threw at it.  Only ones that I didn't like as much was the Schiit Lyr2 and the Mjolnir.  I remember a/b'ing against a gumby and found that I preferred some Schiit on Schiit action more.


----------



## greenmac

Thanks MHLC, are you able to share a photo of the Euphoria and Denatrips Ares ?

Similar footprints ?


----------



## Renexx

greenmac said:


> What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


Rockna Wavelight ...amazing.


----------



## Ichos

greenmac said:


> What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


Ares II and Venus II.
Perfect.


----------



## Deleeh

I'm currently using the Singxer Sda 2 with the Su2 via I2S and I'm still satisfied. A good little insider tip for those on a tight budget is 
Surprisingly, the Little Dot Dac 1 with its Wolfson chip on the Euforia is also worth its firework, even better when connected to the Su 2 via coax.


----------



## Quince (Apr 1, 2022)

greenmac said:


> What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


Qutest and Marantz SA-10. Both work beautifully, but prefer the more natural, fuller feel of the Marantz.


----------



## canfabulous

greenmac said:


> What DAC are people pairing with their Euphoria ?


Typically, a Hugo 2 with a 2go for streaming.


----------



## aqsw

I'm using a Hegel HD12 with Cocktail x45 streamer


----------



## SlothRock (Apr 2, 2022)

Just came in and Oh. My. God.

Guys - I got an HD800S today along with this amp (yay, mini Christmas!). I paired up the HD800S with my Burson GT and was very impressed - sounded great. Paired it with the Euforia AE….BLISS. Why did i take so long to get into the tube game?


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> Just came in and Oh. My. God.
> 
> Guys - I got an HD800S today along with this amp (yay, mini Christmas!). I paired up the HD800S with my Burson GT and was very impressed - sounded great. Paired it with the Euforia AE….BLISS. Why did i take so long to get into the tube game?


You will find that those psvane drivers are pretty good, though they can be bettered by NOS replacements. But your biggest bang for your buck will be replacing those powers. If you can get yourself a pair of Tungsol 5998’s, they are up there with the best!


----------



## Deleeh

Welcome to the Euforia club, ✌️✌️✌️✌️


----------



## SlothRock

JTbbb said:


> You will find that those psvane drivers are pretty good, though they can be bettered by NOS replacements. But your biggest bang for your buck will be replacing those powers. If you can get yourself a pair of Tungsol 5998’s, they are up there with the best!


Thank you for the recommendation! Might be a good place to start . What’s a good price for a pair of 5998’s? I’m seeing them roughly between 300-450 for one and 550-600 for a pair so far


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> Thank you for the recommendation! Might be a good place to start . What’s a good price for a pair of 5998’s? I’m seeing them roughly between 300-450 for one and 550-600 for a pair so far


If you keep your finger on the pulse you should be able to get a pair cheaper than that. Also, the AE is not sensitive to electrically un-matched pairs (as long as they are not wildly different) so you can buy singles. Just make sure that the manufacture dates match up reasonably close.

As far as powers are concerned, the 5998’s are not a place to start, they are a finish!


----------



## Magol79

SlothRock said:


> Thank you for the recommendation! Might be a good place to start . What’s a good price for a pair of 5998’s? I’m seeing them roughly between 300-450 for one and 550-600 for a pair so far


While you wait for a pair of 5998s to show up, buy a pair of 6080 tubes. Much cheaper and a step up from the stock tubes.


----------



## SlothRock

Magol79 said:


> While you wait for a pair of 5998s to show up, buy a pair of 6080 tubes. Much cheaper and a step up from the stock tubes.


I did already find some GEC 6080’s on eBay for $99/each so maybe a good starting point then keep an eye on cheaper tungsol 5998’s


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> I did already find some GEC 6080’s on eBay for $99/each so maybe a good starting point then keep an eye on cheaper tungsol 5998’s


Be careful with those, that they are genuine! That’s cheap for GEC’s.


----------



## SlothRock

JTbbb said:


> Be careful with those, that they are genuine! That’s cheap for GEC’s.


I thought the same - I was told Langrex is an established, well known seller which makes me feel better if that’s true. This is the listing for reference:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> I thought the same - I was told Langrex is an established, well known seller which makes me feel better if that’s true. This is the listing for reference:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


Yes they do have a good reputation. I used to have a pair and mine looked like these. There are others here that may be able to give better advice.


----------



## barontan2418

JTbbb said:


> Yes they do have a good reputation. I used to have a pair and mine looked like these. There are others here that may be able to give better advice.


Cannot go wrong with Langrex. Really good company from which I have purchased many a tube.


----------



## SlothRock

JTbbb said:


> Yes they do have a good reputation. I used to have a pair and mine looked like these. There are others here that may be able to give better advice.


Oh cool - the ones on this listing look identical, just without the sticker it appears. If I don’t need them to match then maybe I start here for a more relatively “cheap” power upgrade at $200


----------



## Deleeh

The Gec where Langerex offers have been in use before.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Obviously, the overall condition is OK and so are the values in the meter.
I think they will be around 90-80%.


----------



## SlothRock

Ended up finding some 5998's in good condition here on Head Fi for a good price as well. Excited for my first tube roll


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 4, 2022)

Schiit Gungnir Multibit, has never let me down. Euforia AE paired with Meze Emprean Elite, Senheiser 800, Oppo PM-1.  Sound is excellent.


----------



## LoryWiv

SlothRock said:


> I thought the same - I was told Langrex is an established, well known seller which makes me feel better if that’s true. This is the listing for reference:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


I paid quite a bit more for my GEC 6080 which I enjoy in Feliks Elise, so if genuine yes these are a solid deal. BTW the "Z" in tube code references Hammersmith factory I believe, often the manufacture site of some of GEC's best tubes!


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> I thought the same - I was told Langrex is an established, well known seller which makes me feel better if that’s true. This is the listing for reference:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265213378481?hash=item3dbff2ffb1:g:8F8AAOSwYp9g3Eo2


The Grade 1 designation is that it tests ‘new but shows signs of slight use.’ I have bought Raytheon 6080 s from Langrex with no Grade designation and that ‘test new and unused’.


----------



## connieflyer

I have purchased tubes from this seller for years, and was always satisfied with the quality of his tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

connieflyer said:


> I have purchased tubes from this seller for years, and was always satisfied with the quality of his tubes.


Same here 👍


----------



## connieflyer

A little off topic, but if you get the opportunity to listen to the new Meze Emprean Elite headphones on the Euphoria AE please give these a try. I purchased these and find them the most enjoyable and addictive phones ever. So much so I am going to sell off the rest of my phones. Never thought I would sell the Sennheiser 800, but the Elite are that good


----------



## Deleeh

connieflyer said:


> A little off topic, but if you get the opportunity to listen to the new Meze Emprean Elite headphones on the Euphoria AE please give these a try. I purchased these and find them the most enjoyable and addictive phones ever. So much so I am going to sell off the rest of my phones. Never thought I would sell the Sennheiser 800, but the Elite are that good


Have fun with the meze.✌️
I'm glad you found an upgrade.
I was able to get hold of a Zmf Auteur that is in the making.


----------



## SlothRock

First tube roll is complete with the Tung Sol 5998’s replacing the stock power tubes. Wow, the change really is drastic. Sound stage is more expansive, I can hear quite a bit more detail and it brightened up the sound a bit and brought the vocals a bit more forward which is appreciated with the VC’s. Lastly, it restored some of the bass slam that I felt was lost when moving from my Burson GT to the Euforia. Great recommendation! My next tubes are gonna be Tung sol 6sn7gt black glass I bought from another head-fier. Tube rolling is gonna be addictive, I can already tell!


----------



## Renexx

SlothRock said:


> First tube roll is complete with the Tung Sol 5998’s replacing the stock power tubes. Wow, the change really is drastic. Sound stage is more expansive, I can hear quite a bit more detail and it brightened up the sound a bit and brought the vocals a bit more forward which is appreciated with the VC’s. Lastly, it restored some of the bass slam that I felt was lost when moving from my Burson GT to the Euforia. Great recommendation! My next tubes are gonna be Tung sol 6sn7gt black glass I bought from another head-fier. Tube rolling is gonna be addictive, I can already tell!



Welcome in tube hell. From now on it will only get worst.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Have fun with the meze.✌️
> I'm glad you found an upgrade.
> I was able to get hold of a Zmf Auteur that is in the making.


ZMF Auter is superb with my FA Elise!


----------



## barbz127

Would anyone be able to comment on how the gec grade 1's compare to the mullard 6080's that langrex also list? The mullards look like they have copper posts.

I'm currently enjoying some mullard ecc32 up front with the stock tubes in the rear; not sure what either the gec or mullard will bring to the table over the stock.

Thankyou


----------



## Deleeh

barbz127 said:


> Would anyone be able to comment on how the gec grade 1's compare to the mullard 6080's that langrex also list? The mullards look like they have copper posts.
> 
> I'm currently enjoying some mullard ecc32 up front with the stock tubes in the rear; not sure what either the gec or mullard will bring to the table over the stock.
> 
> Thankyou



Hello,
The Mullard is soft and on the warm side.
It plays mostly deep soft down but dynamic enough.
On the Euforia, it doesn't have as much bite in the bass, but it's more noticeable with planar headphones.
On dynamic headphones it should be better.
The detail reproduction is one of the best I've heard on 6080 so far.
It can really fire with a good 6sn7.

Unfortunately I haven't heard the Gec yet to be able to make any statements.
But most people favour them.

If you are looking for a good alternative, there is the Slyvania, which is similar to the Mullard and cheaper if you just want to try it out.
It has a bit more bite in the bass but doesn't play as deep as the Mullard.
Otherwise they are close to the same level.

With the Ps Vane 6sn7, the Mullard can sound quite thin and quite pointed at the top. But also more planar related headphones.
So something warm and neutral would be better.

My experience so far was the following when it was mostly good with the Lcd 2C on the Euforia with the tube rolling.
It was always a little better with dynamic headphones, because it was rarely too thin in any area.


----------



## JTbbb

barbz127 said:


> Would anyone be able to comment on how the gec grade 1's compare to the mullard 6080's that langrex also list? The mullards look like they have copper posts.
> 
> I'm currently enjoying some mullard ecc32 up front with the stock tubes in the rear; not sure what either the gec or mullard will bring to the table over the stock.
> 
> Thankyou


I think your best bet is to replace the stock tubes in the rear.


----------



## toddc2 (Apr 8, 2022)

Newbie to this forum. I am considering the Euforia to drive my Focal Utopia's. I have seen a few references to Euforia MkII but can't find any details. Is there a MkII and if so does anyone know what changes were made?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

I'm afraid I don't know the difference between the Mk 1 and Mk 2.
If you should buy one, it will be the Mk 2 you get.
The Euforia has been quietly improved over and over again, among other things.
In the meantime, the design in the circuit has been improved with circuit boards and components.
Most of which are not worth mentioning.

What you might need to know is that the Euforia amplifier is available in the normal matt black finish and there is also an AE version in gloss finish that has a little more power, different wiring in the cable, two different capacitors in the 6AS7G socket.
And costs a little more.

Personally I think it is not worth the extra price.
The other thing is that the stock tubes are not the best and if you are familiar with the tube families the money would be better invested in other tubes.
If you need help with that, let me know.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm afraid I don't know the difference between the Mk 1 and Mk 2.
> If you should buy one, it will be the Mk 2 you get.
> ...


I would agree with this for toddc2. If buying a new Euforia, buy without the tubes, if you can. There will be plenty of advise here for good tubes that won’t break the bank.


----------



## SlothRock

Love my Euforia AE but if I didn't get it used (but brand new) for the same price as the regular Euforia, I wouldn't have sprung the cash for the differences. Go with normal Euforia if you're buying brand new or Euforia AE if you're buying used in great condition . The tubes matter way more than Euforia vs. AE as well from what others have said


----------



## toddc2 (Apr 8, 2022)

Thanks for the input! I am hoping to pick up a nice unit used, in fact there is one on eBay already located in Canada. That saves quite a bit over shipping a new one into the country. Time will tell on that purchase.

I have a few nice 6SN7 pairs to try: 1950’s 5962 RCA red base, a pair of 1940’s smoked glass VT-231’s and a nice pair of Sylvania 1960’s (GT?). That’s probably a good start for the driver tubes.

The power tubes are another thing as I have no equivalent tubes. Looks like the vintage TS 5998 is the way to go but they look scarce and fairly expensive. Any advice?


----------



## JTbbb

toddc2 said:


> Thanks for the input! I am hoping to pick up a nice unit used, in fact there is one on eBay already located in Canada. That saves quite a bit over shipping a new one into the country. Time will tell on that purchase.
> 
> I have a few nice 6SN7 pairs to try: 1950’s 5962 RCA red base, a pair of 1940’s smoked glass VT-231’s and a nice pair of Sylvania 1960’s (GT?). That’s probably a good start for the driver tubes.
> 
> The power tubes are another thing as I have no equivalent tubes. Looks like the vintage TS 5998 is the way to go but they look scarce and fairly expensive. Any advice?


You have some nice 6sn7’s there and I would agree that TS 5998’s are the way to go. Straight to the top end of tubes! This is indeed what SlothRock has done. If you keep your eye out on the various tube sources they do come up at reasonable prices.


----------



## Deleeh

I bought this tube about 6 months after I bought the Euforia.
They were already cheap at that time.
But I have to say that I have the Foreign.
These aren't them and according to the label they were made in the USA.
We already had rumours at the time that they were Sylvania.

https://www.vintage-electronics.co.uk/product/6080-brimar-valve-tube-nos/


----------



## Saigonn

Im looking to combine this with a bifrost 2 dac for my verite opens, anyone has a suggestion for a more fitting dac in the 1000$ price category? thanks in advance


----------



## Deleeh

Here in the forum someone is selling his 
Chord outest for the money, it probably doesn't get any better than this.
Would definitely be above the Bitfrost and anything else in the price range.


----------



## Saigonn

will check it out, thank you!


----------



## shafat777

Saigonn said:


> Im looking to combine this with a bifrost 2 dac for my verite opens, anyone has a suggestion for a more fitting dac in the 1000$ price category? thanks in advance


I personally used to own a Deanfrips Ares 2 R2R dac that sounded excellent with my Feliks Elise/Euforia and Zmf cans. The Bf2 is more dynamic and in your face type of tonality while the Ares 2 was more smooth, musical and matches really well with ZMF. Worth checking out if you are curious.


----------



## Saigonn

Great suggestion, its hard to buy a dac without hearing it. Will try to read more up on it. Thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

The Ares is not necessarily bad, but it has a few unpleasant things.
Above all, it should be left connected to the power supply, which I find a bit of a shame.
And the USB input is not supposed to be splashy.
Some have said that a Singxer Su 2 with the Ares via coax should be very good and better.

Unfortunately it is the only R2R Dac in the price range, anything better is beyond the budget.
That's why I would say it's better to stick with Delta Sigma.
Akm based dacs are more musical as well as the old Burr Brown chips which are slightly too thick.
Ess is a little bit more treble and Cirrus Logic is also now but more musical.
I think the new Ess chips are better now.

What is still good are the old Wolfson based dacs, which are very natural musical.
A Little Dot Dac 1 has one in it as well as one from the Meier Audio series.
I have the Little Dot Dac 1 myself and it holds its own with the Singxer Sda 2 and is quite decent for the money.

Another good one is the Allo Revolution Dac ESS chip, which is quite good in terms of implementation and delivers a good performance with the Nirvana power supply.

The Ify Dac Signature is also supposed to be very good on a Burr Brown basis.

Topping smsl etc. have a quite pronounced high tone and sharp, and also a bit lifeless in sound.
Don't know if you would like that.

Maybe a suggestion from the above would be Bitfrost 2 and then save for something better.
From what I've heard, a good Dac on the Euforia is not a waste of money, quite the opposite.
It can go up another two notches.


----------



## Saigonn

Thank you for the insight!! 1000$ second hand or maybe a tad above might be feasible for me, absolutely want to do the feliks euforia justice


----------



## elrey

SlothRock said:


> Mine arrives tomorrow but I'll be pairing it with a Bifrost 2


I also use the Bifrost 2. I am happy.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Deleeh said:


> The Ares is not necessarily bad, but it has a few unpleasant things.
> Above all, it should be left connected to the power supply, which I find a bit of a shame.
> And the USB input is not supposed to be splashy.
> Some have said that a Singxer Su 2 with the Ares via coax should be very good and better.
> ...


I've recently picked up two Musician Pegasus R2R DACs.  One is currently installed, the other is arriving on Monday.  These are a HUGE improvement over my VMV D1se (same company as S.M.S.L).  Both were had for under $1k shipped - check eBay or vendors for sales.

From what I've read so far, R2R's in general tend to do better when left connected to power.  They don't need to be powered on all the time (although I do leave mine on), standby mode works as well.  I'm not exactly sure what the concept is behind this, but my guess is constant power provides stability to the resistors (or something to that effect).

I am currently experimenting with fuse upgrades as well, as I've read that the also make a fairly significant difference.  I can't vouch for it yet, and honestly don't understand how (but do understand the concept).  Time will tell.

Delta Sigma DACs are fine, and my VMV D1se has some harmonic adding "filters" that help with the brightness/clinical aspects, giving them a bit more warmth and life.  My xDuoo TA-30's built-in DAC does just fine with both USB and Bluetooth sources - it's currently in my bedroom and I use it as my "falling asleep" music amp.  Not a critical listening piece, but works well (plus the benefit of tube coloring).

I have no experience with the Schiit line of products but they seem to be held in high regard here, so I imagine you won't be sorry for buying one.


----------



## connieflyer

I have been using the Schiit Gungnir Multibit for several years.  I had a Denafrips before that, and had problems with it.  I was on the phone with the distributor, but after two hours of troubleshooting he agreed to a refund. Have not had any problems with this Dac, and it has excellent support.  This dac also should be left on.  I also had the Euphoria and the AE side by side for a month before selling off the Euforia. The AE was just better.  Much better than my old Elise, also.  Next step will be the Envy, a 300B amp, a beautiful piece of equipment, if you have not seen it yet take a look at their home page.   https://feliksaudio.pl/


----------



## Saigonn

Oh wow, yeah the envy is insane
Looks amazing. But thats way way way out of my budget

the euforia AE is already mindblowing for me


----------



## JazzVinyl

connieflyer said:


> I have been using the Schiit Gungnir Multibit for several years.  I had a Denafrips before that, and had problems with it.  I was on the phone with the distributor, but after two hours of troubleshooting he agreed to a refund. Have not had any problems with this Dac, and it has excellent support.  This dac also should be left on.  I also had the Euphoria and the AE side by side for a month before selling off the Euforia. The AE was just better.  Much better than my old Elise, also.  Next step will be the Envy, a 300B amp, a beautiful piece of equipment, if you have not seen it yet take a look at their home page.   https://feliksaudio.pl/



"A New Benchmark in the Premium Class"!!  Sure is beautiful, CF!!    Can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## Saigonn

curious how it stacks up against the euforia


----------



## helljudgement

Saigonn said:


> Thank you for the insight!! 1000$ second hand or maybe a tad above might be feasible for me, absolutely want to do the feliks euforia justice


I'd recommend getting either the bifrost 2 or the soekris dac. Tonally the bifrost is a tad darker than neutral but both are excellent dacs at this price range and likely won't get much better until you start getting into stuff that cost 8-10x more.


----------



## Saigonn

helljudgement said:


> I'd recommend getting either the bifrost 2 or the soekris dac. Tonally the bifrost is a tad darker than neutral but both are excellent dacs at this price range and likely won't get much better until you start getting into stuff that cost 8-10x more.


After another 1.5 day of research I think the bifrost 2 will be my choice, it gets a lot of praise and generally aligns with what im looking for.
Thanks!


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 13, 2022)

There is a very good comparison and review on Headfonia.    https://www.headfonia.com/feliks-audio-envy-review/


JazzVinyl said:


> "A New Benchmark in the Premium Class"!!  Sure is beautiful, CF!!    Can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## Saigonn

Curious how much better it is compared to the AE


----------



## toddc2

My Euforia is on the way! I picked up a lightly used base model with stock tubes. Let the tube rolling begin…


----------



## Deleeh

Congratz,have fun with it ,✌️👍✌️👍.


----------



## Saigonn

toddc2 said:


> My Euforia is on the way! I picked up a lightly used base model with stock tubes. Let the tube rolling begin…


Enjoy! I just missed out on one  
Hope another will pop up soonish


----------



## toddc2

Since my “new to me” Euforia only has a few hours on it, I’m thinking a proper burn-in is in order (obviously using the stock tubes). Is it OK to run the amp in for a few days continuously?


----------



## Renexx

toddc2 said:


> Since my “new to me” Euforia only has a few hours on it, I’m thinking a proper burn-in is in order (obviously using the stock tubes). Is it OK to run the amp in for a few days continuously?


The manual says no more than 8h runtime then 1h of cooldown I think.


----------



## Saigonn

Yep


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

No, unfortunately not.
Have a look at the instructions on the Feliks page.
It says you should burn it in but never let it run for longer than 8 hours.
I don't think Feliks has ever explained why this is so.

From experience, I can tell you that I have let it run for 9 or even 10 hours and nothing happened.
But you could tell that it didn't sound as fresh as it used to.

This is also the case when you replace the standard capacitors with different ones.

I have acquired a rhythm when I had to burn it in that it ran overnight and switched off in the morning, for example from 10pm to 6am.
And I wrote it down and always added the hours to the total number.

The amplifier then also needs at least an hour to cool down before it is switched on again.
Unfortunately, I don't know the real reason why Feliks says that.


----------



## toddc2

Thanks for the feedback. Seems a bit odd to limit ON time to 8 hours unless there is a potential thermal issue. But if they say so…I believe them.


----------



## Deleeh

No, I don't think so.
The Euforia also gets warm through the tubes mainly.
I can imagine that it is because there are capacitors that may run dry and it is more of a safety measure.

If you place the Euforia in such a way that there is room for the heat to escape, all is well.
Suboptimal is if it stands in the rack or next to the wall or similar.

In winter, it is good to open the window to let some fresh air into the room, which helps.
In the summer, I would be a bit careful and weigh it up there, it could really happen that it runs hot.
Then it is better to listen in the evening.
Of course it all depends on your flat, how warm it gets, sunny side etc..


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Most tube amps say run them for 7-8 hours max, and then let them cool down for at least an hour.


----------



## SlothRock (Apr 19, 2022)

Just popped in some Tung Sol 6sn7gt black glass, oval mica tubes courtesy of @JTbbb and really am loving em. Bumped up the resolution from stock pre amp tubes - a lot more clarity in the high end particularly. They pair wonderfully with the Tung Sol 5998's.


----------



## LoryWiv

SlothRock said:


> Just popped in some *Tung Sol 7sn7gt black glass*, oval mica tubes courtesy of @JTbbb and really am loving em. Bumped up the resolution from stock pre amp tubes - a lot more clarity in the high end particularly. They pair wonderfully with the Tung Sol 5998's.


Do you mean 6SN7GT? Can't find any info. on 7SN7GT.


----------



## connieflyer

Perhaps he meant 7N7 as that is the loctal version of a 6sn7


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> Perhaps he meant 7N7 as that is the loctal version of a 6sn7


It’s just a typo error. They are 6sn7’s.


----------



## SlothRock

Ya typo, my bad ! Just corrected it


----------



## flea22

Hello

I've been using a euforia with a pair of meze empyreans for over a year now. And I have a upgrade itch or side grade itch. I want a second pair of headphones for the euforia. I want some dynamic headphones.

What dynamic headphones play well with the euforia? Also has to be easy to drive. I like some music really loud.

Have been thinking about 800s


----------



## MHLC

flea22 said:


> Hello
> 
> I've been using a euforia with a pair of meze empyreans for over a year now. And I have a upgrade itch or side grade itch. I want a second pair of headphones for the euforia. I want some dynamic headphones.
> 
> ...


I love pairing my ZMFs with the Euforia.  The HD800s are amazing too but I have a slight ZMF bias.


----------



## Ichos

flea22 said:


> Hello
> 
> I've been using a euforia with a pair of meze empyreans for over a year now. And I have a upgrade itch or side grade itch. I want a second pair of headphones for the euforia. I want some dynamic headphones.
> 
> ...


The Euforia naturally plays well with high Z Sennheiser like the HD800S/8xx but is also very good with lower Z dynamic headphones like the Focal Clear Mg.


----------



## jonathan c

flea22 said:


> Hello
> 
> I've been using a euforia with a pair of meze empyreans for over a year now. And I have a upgrade itch or side grade itch. I want a second pair of headphones for the euforia. I want some dynamic headphones.
> 
> ...


ZMF: Aeolus / Atrium / Atticus / Auteur / Eikon


----------



## flea22

Thanks will do some more research on ZMF. I've been looking at focal clear mg and 800s. The utopia is a bit over priced for me. New anyway


----------



## MHLC

Another headphone that I actually like is the LCD-MX4.  They're easy to drive, similiar the the Meze


----------



## flea22

Has anyone got any personal experience with the euforia and clear mg?


----------



## Ichos

flea22 said:


> Has anyone got any personal experience with the euforia and clear mg?


I think that I wrote that earlier!


----------



## Ichos

Regarding impedance matching, there is no problem and the Euforia can supply plenty of current for driving the Clear with optimal results.
As for sound I think that you already know that the Euforia with the stock tubes is pretty neutral and transparent and you only get the tube magic without side effects so there is a great synergy between the amp and the Clear.


----------



## flea22

Ichos said:


> Regarding impedance matching, there is no problem and the Euforia can supply plenty of current for driving the Clear with optimal results.
> As for sound I think that you already know that the Euforia with the stock tubes is pretty neutral and transparent and you only get the tube magic without side effects so there is a great synergy between the amp and the Clear.


Big thanks for the help, was a little worried about power. I have no way of testing before I buy. 

I love my euforia with emyreans, rocking 5998 power tubes with ecc32 mullard's as drivers.

I think owning a second set of cans might be a good way to mix things up a bit.


----------



## JTbbb

flea22 said:


> Big thanks for the help, was a little worried about power. I have no way of testing before I buy.
> 
> I love my euforia with emyreans, rocking 5998 power tubes with ecc32 mullard's as drivers.
> 
> I think owning a second set of cans might be a good way to mix things up a bit.


I have this very same tube combo and love the HD800S.


----------



## LoryWiv

flea22 said:


> Has anyone got any personal experience with the euforia and clear mg?


Answered by @Ichos, and I can add that I am listening to Clear MG with Euforia's little sister amp., Elise, and it is outstanding.


----------



## flea22

Big thanks guys, helped a lot


----------



## BrainSalat

Hi All, this is my first post in Headfi and I am also a new user of the fantastic Euforia AE. I had to wait 2 months to get mine given its high demand.
My previous tube amp was the Little Dot MKIV SE with all possible upgrades, but the Euforia is really some classes up. Even when this is my first post I have been an avid reader of this thread and the LittleDot tube rolling one, taking already advantage of your very appreciated findings.

To jump into the discussion, which heaphones?? I own the Focal Clear, which among my headphones to me produces the best match with the Euforia, the most natural and spacious sound, every music I throw to it sounds correct. Is not a minor point that Focal have been using the Euforia to demo its flagship Utopia and the Clear was built using Utopia's tech.

I also enjoy a lot the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 PRO with the Euforia, with this you get a more intense, in your face, experience with basses rumbling like speakers...more enjoyable with dynamic music like electronic, soundtracks. It really invites to turn up the volume....however is not for long listening sessions like with the Focal.

finally I am very impressed also on how the AKG K-712 PRO sound out of the Euforia, but they require a PEQ, in order to fix issues in the spectrum and match the Harman curve. Incredible scaling for such an headphone that cost only a small fraction of all you guys here have. These produce the biggest soundstage, also natural sounding but not as much clean and natural like the Focal Clear. No other amps I own made shine the AKG like that.


----------



## Ichos

Welcome and enjoy your new amplifier!


----------



## BrainSalat

Thanks @Ichos


----------



## connieflyer

Deleeh said:


> That's strange.
> Take a look at mine, they are completely different.
> These are the ones I ordered in Canada and they definitely come from Linlai.
> 
> ...





Deleeh said:


> Deleeh,  I tried the MHA200 and found it lacking.  It sounded quite like the Euphoria, but a little thinner. Also, the volumn control was very sensitive, a slight movement brought a large increase in volumn.  So decided to try the MHA150 again, found on for demo, confirmed I still liked it better than  Euphoria, and bought  it.  A little pricey but a definite upgrade. So much so, that I have not turned on the Euforia AE since it came into the home.  Guess I will have to sell it and a large supply of tubes and adapters.  Going to miss the tubes, but since Feliks new 300b is priced even higher here in the States, don't feel to bad about it.





Deleeh said:


> Edit:
> Yes thanks to the reminder from Deyan.That would even still be an option to maybe get the savers dead silent.Didn't even think of that anymore,jeez.
> Thank you, I will take it into account. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏


----------



## connieflyer

LoryWiv said:


> HI CF, hope you are well. is the bloom off the rose with your Euforia AE or are you just looking to have another option for variety?


Just looking for a new experience.  Also thinking ahead to smaller living space so going to consolidate music system.  Selling off main system and now all my tubes (!!) so many, and the Euphoria AE. Purchased the McINtosh MHA150 and it is everything I need.


----------



## toddc2

connieflyer said:


> Just looking for a new experience.  Also thinking ahead to smaller living space so going to consolidate music system.  Selling off main system and now all my tubes (!!) so many, and the Euphoria AE. Purchased the McINtosh MHA150 and it is everything I need.


Hey CF, I'm looking for 5998 or similar power tubes and maybe the Mullard ECC32's if you have them in your trove. Will you be posting your tubes here in the classifieds?

Todd


----------



## JTbbb

connieflyer said:


> Just looking for a new experience.  Also thinking ahead to smaller living space so going to consolidate music system.  Selling off main system and now all my tubes (!!) so many, and the Euphoria AE. Purchased the McINtosh MHA150 and it is everything I need.


My goodness, there may well be a tube scramble, or could that be scrummage 😀


----------



## SlothRock

toddc2 said:


> Hey CF, I'm looking for 5998 or similar power tubes and maybe the Mullard ECC32's if you have them in your trove. Will you be posting your tubes here in the classifieds?
> 
> Todd


+1 - looking for some back up 5998's or 421A's


----------



## Deleeh

Let us know when you're ready.
I would be interested in two pairs.
Even if it's second-hand 😉.
And have fun with the Mha 150, it looks good even if it is expensive.


----------



## toddc2

My "new to me" Euforia just arrived. The seller wouldn't budge on price stating it only had a couple of hours and looks brand new. I happily concur! Here's what it looks like in it's new home:


----------



## Deleeh

Great the other Amp looks good to.
Have fun with the Euforia,👍✌️👍✌️


----------



## toddc2

Deleeh said:


> Great the other Amp looks good to.
> Have fun with the Euforia,👍✌️👍✌️


Thanks, the other amp is a Roger's High-Fidelity phono preamp. It's very nice sounding, by far the best sounding tube phono I've had! VPI uses it to showcase their turntables, not dissimilar to the Euforia/Utopia pairing.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Just looking for a new experience.  Also thinking ahead to smaller living space so going to consolidate music system.  Selling off main system and now all my tubes (!!) so many, and the Euphoria AE. Purchased the McINtosh MHA150 and it is everything I need.



This can't be happening.  However all the best to the next phase of your journey. I'm still holding on to my tubes, including the 5998 and Bendix 6080wb.


----------



## LoryWiv

connieflyer said:


> Just looking for a new experience.  Also thinking ahead to smaller living space so going to consolidate music system.  Selling off main system and now all my tubes (!!) so many, and the Euphoria AE. Purchased the McINtosh MHA150 and it is everything I need.


Hi CF, the end of an era! MHA150 is an interesting amp. as well. Wondering if you have any comparative impressions vs. AE? 

Please keep us apprised on this thread and perhaps give us Feliks-Audio afficionados a heads up when you list your amp. and tubes.


----------



## Dynamo5561 (Apr 27, 2022)

After some tube rolling I finally found my dream combination and not any looking further:

5998 Tung-Sol and Chatham tubes
6SN7 Melz

Tight, authorative bass with lots of sparkle and richness in the treble, quite clean sounding.

Thanks to @Renexx providing some very nice recommendations and a lot of help!


----------



## toddc2

Dynamo5561 said:


> After some tube rolling I finally found my dream combination and not any looking further:
> 
> 5998 Tung-Sol and Chatham tubes
> 6SN7 Melz
> ...


Oh boy, I have tube envy!


----------



## connieflyer (Apr 27, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> This can't be happening.  However all the best to the next phase of your journey. I'm still holding on to my tubes, including the 5998 and Bendix 6080wb.


Well it had to happen.  Getting older, (I know, aren't we all!) but I want to move to a condo, with less for me to do as far as upkeep and security is concerned.  I am planning on traveling a lot more, and do not want to concern myself with a house. And I am sure that in a condo, folks would not welcome movie night with the sub woofer knocking the pictures off the walls! This amp has 50 watts into 8 ohms for a pair of speakers if I want, so I won't (need) the rest of the system.   The Euforia AE should sell quickly, and the tubes, I may start off with a large group and  for all the adapters and tubes for a low price.  Otherwise, it will take a while to list all on ebay.  Looks like you will be the only one left of the Three Musketeers! Colin is doing well and has gone all SS, so maybe you should recruit a few more.  We had a very good run old friend. As to the 5998's I sold those already I do have a pair of 6080WB, one of my favorites.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Well it had to happen.  Getting older, (I know, aren't we all!) but I want to move to a condo, with less for me to do as far as upkeep and security is concerned.  I am planning on traveling a lot more, and do not want to concern myself with a house. And I am sure that in a condo, folks would not welcome movie night with the sub woofer knocking the pictures off the walls! This amp has 50 watts into 8 ohms for a pair of speakers if I want, so I won't (need) the rest of the system.   The Euforia AE should sell quickly, and the tubes, I may start off with a large group and  for all the adapters and tubes for a low price.  Otherwise, it will take a while to list all on ebay.  Looks like you will be the only one left of the Three Musketeers! Colin is doing well and has gone all SS, so maybe you should recruit a few more.  We had a very good run old friend. As to the 5998's I sold those already I do have a pair of 6080WB, one of my favorites.



Take care Don. Getting older no doubt but what a journey it has been. Drop me a line every now and then so I know how you're doing.


----------



## connieflyer

Will do, and if I make to that side of the planet I will give you a call.


----------



## UntilThen

connieflyer said:


> Will do, and if I make to that side of the planet I will give you a call.



Definitely. I look forward to seeing you in Sydney. Have to show you my amps. Still have 4 tube amps and countless tubes.


----------



## toddc2

toddc2 said:


> My "new to me" Euforia just arrived. The seller wouldn't budge on price stating it only had a couple of hours and looks brand new. I happily concur! Here's what it looks like in it's new home:


UPDATE 1: Slowly logging hours on the amp, it’s tough when you are limited to 8 hours per cycle. I have it happily playing away for 12 hours a day through the Sonos Port (ie not using the TT). 

UPDATE 2: Initial sonic impressions are mixed. It’s sounds pretty good out of the box with stock tubes. But…thin vocals, lack of transparency and smeared bass are      clearly holding back my enthusiasm. That’s with my vinyl front end. More break-in time and some some tube rolling are in order.

UPDATE 3: A matched pair of GEC 6080 are on the way! I am searching for TS 5998 or WE 421A but these 6080 tubes should be a nice improvement over the stock Winged C power tubes. I have a few nice pairs or 6SN7 types to try as well.


----------



## Renexx (Apr 27, 2022)

toddc2 said:


> UPDATE 1: Slowly logging hours on the amp, it’s tough when you are limited to 8 hours per cycle. I have it happily playing away for 12 hours a day through the Sonos Port (ie not using the TT).
> 
> UPDATE 2: Initial sonic impressions are mixed. It’s sounds pretty good out of the box with stock tubes. But…thin vocals, lack of transparency and smeared bass are      clearly holding back my enthusiasm. That’s with my vinyl front end. More break-in time and some some tube rolling are in order.
> 
> UPDATE 3: A matched pair of GEC 6080 are on the way! I am searching for TS 5998 or WE 421A but these 6080 tubes should be a nice improvement over the stock Winged C power tubes. I have a few nice pairs or 6SN7 types to try as well.


Judge the Euphoria after you did try NOS tubes. The psvane stock tubes sound plain boring. Svetlana power tubes are fine as a starting point and sound  quite neutral.
Get yourself a pair of vt-231 or melz 6h8s to match with your GEC 6080s. 

Most Synergy on the Euphoria you will get with high impedance dynamic headphones like ZMF headphones or Sennheiser 800. Your Focal Utopia might not benefit by the high output impedance of your  OTL amp  as much.




My advise: 6f8g sound just the same like expensive 6sn7 tubes. Sylvania vt-99 is just the same like a Sylvania 6sn7w for a much cheaper price.
Adapters are required and can be bought by @Deyan.


----------



## toddc2

Renexx said:


> Judge the Euphoria after you did try NOS tubes. The psvane stock tubes sound plain boring. Svetlana power tubes are fine as a starting point and sound  quite neutral.
> Get yourself a pair of vt-231 or melz 6h8s to match with your GEC 6080s.
> 
> Most Synergy on the Euphoria you will get with high impedance dynamic headphones like ZMF headphones or Sennheiser 800. Your Focal Utopia might not benefit of the high output impedance of the OTL amp  as much.
> ...


Thanks for this excellent advice. I’ve had many tube amps over the years and only use the stock tubes for break-in purposes. I do have a nice pair of 1940’s Sylvania VT-231’s, a pair of RCA red base 5962 and some 1960’s Sylvania GT’s. The Melz look very interesting. I see from a quick search that most are in Ukraine or Serbia…do we have any good NA sources available?


----------



## SlothRock

Nice night in with the Euforia yesterday. Some whiskey, some tube glow and some amazing music!


----------



## Deleeh

Ohh Super combo.
Yes, I have similar plans for tonight with the bottle of whisky, hehe.
Show pictures of your Atrium Koa when you have it.
My Auteur is finally arriving next week.


----------



## JTbbb

SlothRock said:


> Nice night in with the Euforia yesterday. Some whiskey, some tube glow and some amazing music!


Jack Daniels for me!


----------



## LoryWiv

SlothRock said:


> Nice night in with the Euforia yesterday. Some whiskey, some tube glow and some amazing music!


Great photo, what tubes are you rockin' there?


----------



## Deleeh

Let‘s ready to rumbel ,😁.
5998 Tung sol & 6SN7 Brimar Gty,great thanks to Renexx for this tip and recomandation,🙏.
Next week i started with a new Zmf Auteur.


----------



## SlothRock

LoryWiv said:


> Great photo, what tubes are you rockin' there?


Thank you! Rocking Tung Sol 5998’s for the powers and Tung Sol 6SN7GT black glass, oval mica’s for the pre’s.

Big thanks to both @Renexx and @JTbbb for giving me a ton of knowledge as I’m starting to explore the tube world. In love with this combo and the RCA 6SN7 grey glass as well!


----------



## Renexx (Apr 30, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Nice night in with the Euforia yesterday. Some whiskey, some tube glow and some amazing music!





It seems we did listen to the same tubes 👍

I did try my 6f8gs these days and Sylvania & Tungsol round plates were just amazing.
Going for Tungsol flat plates next ...I'm curious if there is any difference at all.
Switching from WE421a to 5998 I couldn't tell any difference.

Once you go tubes there is no going back.


----------



## JazzVinyl

SlothRock said:


> Nice night in with the Euforia yesterday. Some whiskey, some tube glow and some amazing music!



Tung Sol BGRP!  Good smooooooooth-ness  

Bet it went well with some good whiskey!


----------



## BrainSalat

My 20 years AE buddies . I already ordered the GEC 6080 and Melz 6N8S to start my rolling journey. Thanks guys for the good tips.


----------



## JTbbb

BrainSalat said:


> My 20 years AE buddies . I already ordered the GEC 6080 and Melz 6N8S to start my rolling journey. Thanks guys for the good tips.


If you ever decide to go looking for a pair of Tungsol BGRP Oval Mica’s, drop us a pm. Might be able to help.


----------



## toddc2 (May 2, 2022)

Tube Update: The GEC 6080 from the UK arrived this morning (wow, that was FAST)! I also just ordered some Melz 6H8C/1578's with the holes in the plates. They look to be authentic but some conformation from the forum would be nice...

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am slowly burning in my Euforia with the stock tubes. My plan is to wait for 50+ hours before rolling anything which should be this Wednesday morning if I stick to my burn-in plan.


----------



## JTbbb

toddc2 said:


> Tube Update: The GEC 6080 from the UK arrived this morning (wow, that was FAST)! I also just ordered some Melz 6H8C/1578's with the holes in the plates. They look to be authentic but some conformation from the forum would be nice...
> 
> As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am slowly burning in my Euforia with the stock tubes. My plan is to wait for 50+ hours before rolling anything which should be this Wednesday morning if I stick to my burn-in plan.


They look cosha to me.


----------



## BrainSalat

toddc2 said:


> Tube Update: The GEC 6080 from the UK arrived this morning (wow, that was FAST)! I also just ordered some Melz 6H8C/1578's with the holes in the plates. They look to be authentic but some conformation from the forum would be nice...
> 
> As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am slowly burning in my Euforia with the stock tubes. My plan is to wait for 50+ hours before rolling anything which should be this Wednesday morning if I stick to my burn-in plan.


What about these?: https://www.ebay.de/itm/284728448819
I don't see the round holes like in your pictures?


----------



## flea22

Full recommendation of the cv181 shuguang treasures. After 100 hrs of elden ring. These things are great. Cheap too!


----------



## Deceneu808

BrainSalat said:


> What about these?: https://www.ebay.de/itm/284728448819
> I don't see the round holes like in your pictures?


There are at least 5 variations of the Melz 1578 that I know of. The most desirable ones are these two :

Metal support ears with top and bottom rectangle plates and horizontal ribbed ladder plates. These are super hard to find





Second place goes to same construction but with shiny black perforated plates :




The other three I do not own or heard but you basically you have same construction as above but with grey matte plates :




Perforated plates but plastic support ears at top and oval plates top and bottom :




And lastly there is the plastic ears up top, round plates top and bottom with ladder horizontal plates :


----------



## JTbbb

BrainSalat said:


> What about these?: https://www.ebay.de/itm/284728448819
> I don't see the round holes like in your pictures?


As far as I understand it, all true 1578’s have the metal support “ears” at the top. Not the plastic ones.


----------



## BrainSalat (May 3, 2022)

Deceneu808 said:


> There are at least 5 variations of the Melz 1578 that I know of. The most desirable ones are these two :
> 
> Metal support ears with top and bottom rectangle plates and horizontal ribbed ladder plates. These are super hard to find
> 
> ...



What a great explanation, thanks a lot @Deceneu808!.
Hard to say what did I order based on the pics of the seller, but either the first, or the last. Let's see what is arriving.


----------



## Deceneu808

BrainSalat said:


> What a great explanation, thanks a lot @Deceneu808!.
> Hard to say what did I order based on the pics of the seller, but either the first, or the last. Let's see what is arriving.


The ones you linked are the last.


----------



## toddc2

Is there some kind of distinction between 6N8S and 6H8C? My seller identified the 6N8S as the 1578’s and called the 6H8C’s (pictured above) as 6SN7 equivalents.


----------



## toddc2

First tube roll is complete! GEC 6080 with Sylvania VT-231. I put the 6080’s in first for an 8 hour burn. Wow the sound stage really opened up with those power tubes and the stock drivers. There was also a significant increase in clarity. I haven’t spent much time with the VT-231’s yet but they sound very nice so far.


----------



## toddc2

The Melz 1578's arrived this morning. After two hours of warm up time, I have the TT running out of the Euforia Line Out into a Sonos Port to my Sonos wireless system. Sounds great even on this mid-fi setup! After a few records I'll switch over to my Utopia's to get a better feel for how the 1578's really sound.


----------



## Renexx

toddc2 said:


> The Melz 1578's arrived this morning. After two hours of warm up time, I have the TT running out of the Euforia Line Out into a Sonos Port to my Sonos wireless system. Sounds great even on this mid-fi setup! After a few records I'll switch over to my Utopia's to get a better feel for how the 1578's really sound.


 Which year of production are your Melz?

It seems you have the greyish perforated plates. I think I never saw those before. Both of mine have shiny black plates in solid and perforated construction.

Somebody can tell if they sound any different?


----------



## toddc2

I am not positive of the production dates although I assume they are 1988 weeks 8 and 11 from the base stamps. I've attached a couple of pictures from this morning with other markings.

After doing some research in the 6SN7 thread, the grey perforated plates are apparently common for the 1578's. The black plates are mentioned (in fact Brent Jessie "says" they are the more desirable plates) but most of the Head-Fi comments relate to the year of manufacture not the plate color. @Ripper2860 posted a guide that shows grey perforated plates, steel support brackets at the top and a ledge on the lower mica plate. I'm no expert but these look legit...


----------



## toddc2 (May 4, 2022)

BrainSalat said:


> What about these?: https://www.ebay.de/itm/284728448819
> I don't see the round holes like in your pictures?


I'm no expert but I believe these are standard Melz 6N8S or 6H8C tubes. They have oval mica's (instead of rectangular with a ledge), the top supports are plastic in 2 out of 3 and the metal supports in the last tube don't look like 1578 supports which are much larger.

EDIT: I should add that I have seen reports of both perforated (with holes) and non-perforated plates on 1578's. There are apparently many versions...


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
A few months ago I saw these pictures somewhere in the forum and saved them for myself in case I ever see Melz I like so I have a comparison.

I think the sous is a Foton, so it's on the far right.
I also think I read that the Foton is the base of the Melz, but I'm no longer sure.
But maybe this will help you ✌️😉.


----------



## toddc2

First impressions are in and somewhat mixed. I have an excellent US 2nd press of Thriller which sounded fantastic with the 1578/6080 tubes. Very clear, transparent and airy top end. This tube combo sounded very much like a premium German tube. Next up was my US 1st press of Aja. This warm and jazzy record sounded flat and un-involving. Hmm…it could use some mid-range warmth which was clearly lacking in this tube combination. I’ll need some more time with this setup to know for sure. 

I will say the 50+ hour break-in and the tube rolling have completely transformed the sonic signature of this amplifier. I am coming from a serious 2-channel system that was downsized for condo life so my expectations are high…

Todd


----------



## Henrim

Got a demo Atrium thanks to IndieHifi in Australia. It's a very engaging sound, especially good with the Euforia. Compared to my SS (audio-gd NFB 11.38), the Euforia gives it more space, notes linger for longer and there's more space for everything to breath. It's really hard to stop playing songs mid-way through!


----------



## Henrim

I should mention, for my tastes the Atrium and Euforia's tuning are an excellent match. The Atrium's are 'ZMF neutral', and the Euforia is pretty neutral too, so there's room to brighten or warm up the sound to taste. Enjoyed using the thompson 6080, LinLai 6SN7, Sylvania VT-231, stock tubes and more.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Henrim said:


> I should mention, for my tastes the Atrium and Euforia's tuning are an excellent match. The Atrium's are 'ZMF neutral', and the Euforia is pretty neutral too, so there's room to brighten or warm up the sound to taste. Enjoyed using the thompson 6080, LinLai 6SN7, Sylvania VT-231, stock tubes and more.



ZMF Headphones love tube amplification, a lot!   Glad to hear you are treating your ZMF's to a quality tube amp.  Happiness shall surely ensue!


----------



## connieflyer

I liked the Melz tubes and used them for a while, but traded them for a great pair of 6080WA tubes which I still use, usually with RCA grey glass 1947 tubes, very nice combo


----------



## SlothRock

Henrim said:


> Got a demo Atrium thanks to IndieHifi in Australia. It's a very engaging sound, especially good with the Euforia. Compared to my SS (audio-gd NFB 11.38), the Euforia gives it more space, notes linger for longer and there's more space for everything to breath. It's really hard to stop playing songs mid-way through!



Love seeing that this combo is working so well for you - I'm waiting on my Koa Atrium patiently and can't wait to try it with the Euforia. The VC is an amazing pairing and my SS amp, although incredible, kinda collects some dust now that I've heard ZMF's on tubes lol


----------



## jonathan c

SlothRock said:


> Love seeing that this combo is working so well for you - I'm waiting on my Koa Atrium patiently and can't wait to try it with the Euforia. The VC is an amazing pairing and my SS amp, although incredible, kinda collects some dust now that I've heard ZMF's on tubes lol


ZMFs on tubes! OTC or OTL, cannot be beat!


----------



## Henrim (May 8, 2022)

Has anyone tried the ZMF upgrade cables? I not too fussed about any SQ improvements, but I'm interested from a build and astethics perspective.

Do you notice the weight? I prefer light cables and find the stock OFC one on the heavy side.
For the woven cables, do the bumps catch on the edge of a desk?
Do noises pass up them easily?
Do they feel and look premium? / have good build quality
Also interested in any other cable recommendations.

edit: oh and are they non janky?


----------



## SlothRock

Henrim said:


> Has anyone tried the ZMF upgrade cables? I not too fussed about any SQ improvements, but I'm interested from a build and astethics perspective.
> 
> Do you notice the weight? I prefer light cables and find the stock OFC one on the heavy side.
> For the woven cables, do the bumps catch on the edge of a desk?
> ...



I have a ZMF upgrade cable and id pick Viking weave cables over them any day. My ZMF upgrade cables got stuck in the headphone and required way too much force to get in and out. You can get a basic Raido cable from Viking weave for about the same price if not cheaper and they’re smooth as silk, high quality and beautiful to boot


----------



## Henrim

Wow they look phenominal.


----------



## Henrim

An excellent tube combo for the Atriums; LinLai 62N7 and Gold lion KT77 powers, with adapters of course.

Rich and textured bass, and very natural mid range, better seperation (compared to stock powers and LinLin 6SN7). This is making me very keen to try some good EL34s... maybe sophia electric, shame about the blue bottles though.

On a side note, while listening to this track, my girlfriend took off the headphones to check if there were people chatting behind her! It's just in the background of the recording


----------



## BrainSalat (May 9, 2022)

I finally I received the GEC 6080 and the Tung-Sol BGRP (thanks @JTbbb for the smooth deal ). The Melz's are still underway from Ukraine (it seems I'll need a lot patience):





Not totally planned I also received the Focal Utopia in the meantime. Thing was I got them new for a huge discount that was no brainer. Really a nice upgrade over the Focal Clear in several departments (soundstage, micro-details, layering, more controlled).

As everyone said it already, upgrading the stock power tubes for the GEC 6080 is the safest way to improve the Euforia sound. This combi (GEC-6080 and stock drivers) with the Utopia's is just great. I could be happy like that for a long time. Next I tried changing the stock drivers CV181-Tii for the Tung-sol BGRP (Like in the pic) and I would said I was a bit disappointed. On one hand they made me believe I was listening to an analog source (pretty smooth, forgiving, anti-harshness) which is very nice, I felt someone they sound a bit laid-down more intimate and the tonality not so natural anymore with some unnatural emphasis on the upper-bass, low-mid.

Anyone here with Utopia (or not) have tried this combination? Maybe the BGRP doesn't make a good partnership with the GEC's and require different power tubes to shine?
I would say it was a better experience with the Beyers DT-1990 but not with the Utopia. With the Beyers these tubes tamed a bit the characteristic brightness and harshness of these headphones.


----------



## JazzVinyl

BrainSalat said:


> I finally I received the GEC 6080 and the Tung-Sol BGRP (thanks @JTbbb for the smooth deal ). The Melz's are still underway from Ukraine (it seems I'll need a lot patience):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am using a similar tube compliment in a different amp.  6080 and TS BGRP driver.  I have Focal Elear and ZMF Aeolus.

Definitely, the TS BGRP is not favored in the Focal Elear but are heavenly in the ZMF Aeolus.

May I suggest NU (National Union) drivers for Your Focal headphones.  I think they would generate the synergy you seek.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jonathan c said:


> ZMFs on tubes! OTC or OTL, cannot be beat!



Agree 100% the ZMF offerings definitely favor tube amplification.


----------



## JTbbb

BrainSalat said:


> I finally I received the GEC 6080 and the Tung-Sol BGRP (thanks @JTbbb for the smooth deal ). The Melz's are still underway from Ukraine (it seems I'll need a lot patience):
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here with Utopia (or not) have tried this combination? Maybe the BGRP doesn't make a good partnership with the GEC's and require different power tubes to shine?


I have only paired BGRP with 5998’s and enjoyed the combo immensely. With Utopia’s and HD800S.


----------



## LoryWiv

I am constantly and pleasantly amazed at how versatile Elise / Euphoria can be for those willing to step outside the proverbial box a bit. Here are Siemens EL11 driving Ken-Rad 6Y6G in Elise, a warm but clean sounding combination which is quite musical:


----------



## BrainSalat

Thanks for the feedback about the combo GEC-6080, TS-BGRP.
Ok so I was not so wrong about my observations.


----------



## kawhia

I have a Feliks Euforia for sale with gold stock tubes in excellent condition. great amplifier that I really like. I have moved to a different amp so I need to part with it. For those interested please contact me. Regards


----------



## toddc2

Having put some time on the Euforia with the Melz 1578/GEC 6080 combo, I now have a better understanding of it’s performance with my Utopia’s.  I am pleasantly surprised with this setup, who knew headphones could sound so good! 

My initial impression was the 1578’s were quite lean but that opinion has changed to the 1578’s are clean and neutral. Strengths are soundstage, bass, and dynamics. I am missing a little warmth on vocals, some fine detail and wish there was a little more sparkle on the top end. The pluses FAR outweigh the nitpicks.

Thanks to this community for the help to quickly arrive at a solution that sounds so good! I’m sure my tube rolling is not over but that’s more out of curiosity than anything else…


----------



## BrainSalat (May 13, 2022)

I was able to find some TS 5998 and these really make better partnership with the TS BRGP for the Utopia.
Tonality is more natural than with the GEC6080 and you get again a more soft kind of analog presentation. This is my favorite combo now.


----------



## SlothRock

The 5998's make a PHENOMENAL upgrade on the Euforia. I got some NOS ones recently after starting with a cheaper used pair because I know they're my end game power tubes for sure. The 6SN7's will be what I'll start to likely do more rolling with


----------



## toddc2

SlothRock said:


> The 5998's make a PHENOMENAL upgrade on the Euforia. I got some NOS ones recently after starting with a cheaper used pair because I know they're my end game power tubes for sure. The 6SN7's will be what I'll start to likely do more rolling with


I’ve been looking for a nice pair of 5998 but haven’t found any yet. Do you mind sharing where you scored yours?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

I had to send my 5998 back.
Unfortunately, they caused problems and I had them measured again.
One was dead due to lack of vacuum and the other was about to short-circuit.
What I had found so far was not my world in terms of price.

You have to be really lucky at the moment with the prices we have in Europe.
I don't think it will get any better to find Tung sols at a good price.


----------



## SlothRock

toddc2 said:


> I’ve been looking for a nice pair of 5998 but haven’t found any yet. Do you mind sharing where you scored yours?



I was able to find mine on eBay. They only had one pair that measured NOS and I was able to bring them down from their initial price point but 5998's are really difficult to find in great condition I'll admit.


----------



## Magol79

I bought a used pair of WE421A and a NOS pair of Chatham 5998 tubes earlier this year. 
I am also pretty happy with the Ken-Rad VT231 tubes. 
I feel as if my Euforia has ascended to its final form.


----------



## SlothRock (May 15, 2022)

Can't get enough of this amp. I absolutely love my Burson GT but, even though I was enjoying listening to it with my VC's, I love everything even more with my Euforia. The Euforia doesn't quite get the same level of detail as the Burson, but it makes it up for it in just over all "goodness". That's all I can describe it as. I know it's distortion, but it's just pulled off so tastefully that everything is just an absolute pleasure to listen to. I appreciate having both for their different tone qualities but I can genuinely say I just simply enjoy music more on my VC's paired with the Euforia.


----------



## BrainSalat

Deceneu808 said:


> There are at least 5 variations of the Melz 1578 that I know of. The most desirable ones are these two :
> 
> 2. Second place goes to same construction but with shiny black perforated plates :
> 
> ...



I finally got my Melz tubes after a long waiting shipment. They are the 5th variation described by @Deceneu808 :







The bad news for me is that I could not even say how good/bad they are because one of the tubes is broken. At random times one of the channels produces only noise (like an untuned radio) and then some also ugly random cracking/clamping sounds that scared me so I quickly shut the amp down. I never experienced that before...is that what you guys has described as a tube shortcut?.

Well I will send them back and look for other sources. @toddc2 Where did you get yours?


----------



## toddc2 (May 20, 2022)

BrainSalat said:


> Well I will send them back and look for other sources. @toddc2 Where did you get yours?


Sorry to hear about the bad tube, it happens sometimes. I was able to locate a pair on this Canuck Audio Mart ad. He has a pair that look like yours for $150 CAD.

Edit: Seller lowered his asking price from $180 to $150 CAD yesterday!


----------



## Deceneu808

BrainSalat said:


> I finally got my Melz tubes after a long waiting shipment. They are the 5th variation described by @Deceneu808 :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that but I had symptoms like that before and they just required a resolder of the pins. With Melz unfortunately, most of them NEED a resolder. My own Melz that I bought were resoldered 4 times by me and once by a professional and they still buzz/hum a bit.


----------



## BrainSalat

@toddc2 . Ok thanks for the tip!

@Deceneu808 . If is it all about solding, then I have all equipment required. I have solded diverse electronics parts but never a tube. Do you have some link to guidelines maybe?


----------



## Deceneu808

BrainSalat said:


> @toddc2 . Ok thanks for the tip!
> 
> @Deceneu808 . If is it all about solding, then I have all equipment required. I have solded diverse electronics parts but never a tube. Do you have some link to guidelines maybe?


Don't have any links but basically you melt the old solder, suck it out with a pump and put new solder in. Sometimes it may need some sort of contact cleaner spray or something to really get in there and clean all the old stuff out but haven't used myself so I wouldn't know what to recommend


----------



## JTbbb

BrainSalat said:


> @toddc2 . Ok thanks for the tip!
> 
> @Deceneu808 . If is it all about solding, then I have all equipment required. I have solded diverse electronics parts but never a tube. Do you have some link to guidelines maybe?


If you search for paladin79, you will find his description with pics on how to do this.


----------



## BrainSalat

Wonderful . Thanks guys!. Let's see how much work is it. Otherwise I can still send them back for a full refund and better get one of the most preferred versions instead , like the "Machine Gun Like Holes on Plat" @toddc2 got.


----------



## toddc2 (May 20, 2022)

BrainSalat said:


> Wonderful . Thanks guys!. Let's see how much work is it. Otherwise I can still send them back for a full refund and better get one of the most preferred versions instead , like the "Machine Gun Like Holes on Plat" @toddc2 got.


Having read through the 6SN7 thread I can say there was very little consensus on what are the most preferred versions. The general conclusions I walked away with:

1. The late 50’s and early 60’s versions of the 1578 were preferred.

2. There was a nice photo posted here  (and reposted on this thread) that outlined what a real 1578 looks like compared to a normal 6N8C or 6N8S. Basically large metal supports at the top and a rectangular mica supports with what was called a “ledge”.

3. There were many posts on perforated plates (ie machine gun holes), smooth plates, shiny black plates and the matte grey plates that I have. Most people had an opinion(s) but I did not see any definitive answer. The opinions did seem to converge on multiple types of construction were made, but again no definitive answer on production dates across the multiple types or which ones are really better. The year of manufacture seemed to be the overall most important factor. 

4. I should also mention there were many posts on having to re-solder the pins on the older Melz tubes.


----------



## BrainSalat

JTbbb said:


> If you search for paladin79, you will find his description with pics on how to do this.


here it starts:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/post-15981989


----------



## Toonartist

I was considering the Feliks Euforia AE to go with my Naim Atom HE & Meze Elite... I also have a Chord Hugo 2. 

Will the Euforia AE run the Elites at their best or just ok? Given the rep of OTL Tube Amps not running planar headphones I don't want to pickup the Euforia AE if it isn't going to run them at their best... cheers


----------



## incredulousity (May 22, 2022)

Toonartist said:


> I was considering the Feliks Euforia AE to go with my Naim Atom HE & Meze Elite... I also have a Chord Hugo 2.
> 
> Will the Euforia AE run the Elites at their best or just ok? Given the rep of OTL Tube Amps not running planar headphones I don't want to pickup the Euforia AE if it isn't going to run them at their best... cheers


Runs Elite spectacularly for me. Stock tubes are fine, and rolling scales well with the headphones. Favorite roll is Gold Lion KT88 drivers, and dual TS KT150 and 5998 for the powers. Obviously needs splitters, adapters, and external tube current supply for this, but insanely good. The KT150s actually add a little too much bass, but it’s so clear, that I don’t care.


----------



## Toonartist

@incredulousity This sounds very promising 👍🏻 Thanks for the feedback, really helps a lot.

Couple of other questions if you don'y mind

1. If using the RCA out of the Naim Atom HE, can I use that to control the volume or, will I be fixing the volume with the HE and using the volume dial on the Euforia AE?
2. How would you describe the Euforia with the Elite regarding transparency... 0 being very transparent & 10 as being very warm?
3. Is there any background noise or is it completely silent/black?

And... a general question for anyone, are there any issues with good quality tube availability? I recall seeing some saying some tubes are becoming rare, hard to find and... being a complete Tube novice I have zero idea 😂

Thanks again!


----------



## incredulousity

1. Either way will work.

2. More transparent than warm.

3. Any noise is coming from elsewhere in your chain, usually power. Mine is black silent at any volume.


----------



## Toonartist

Excellent, thanks. The Naim Atom HE is inky black with the option to adjust the grounding so I don't expect any problems from that. My H2 setup uses power banks etc so again, that should be good.

Looks like I'll go for the AE when I get back from a trip away... looking forward to this


----------



## toddc2

Toonartist said:


> And... a general question for anyone, are there any issues with good quality tube availability? I recall seeing some saying some tubes are becoming rare, hard to find and... being a complete Tube novice I have zero idea 😂
> 
> Thanks again!


Tube availability is excellent but getting a bit pricey for the unicorns. 

The military VT-231’s have a following. I have a pair of Sylvania VT-231’s that sound amazing in the Euforia. Others have had success with RCA, Ken-Rad, National Union, etc. LOTS of great options on the 6SN7’s.  The unicorns are Melz 1578’s (late 50’s or early 60’s) and the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate (BGRP). 

For the power tubes, the GEC 6080 are a huge step up from the stock tubes. The unicorns are Tung Sol 5998 or Western Electric 421A.


----------



## Toonartist

toddc2 said:


> Tube availability is excellent but getting a bit pricey for the unicorns.
> 
> The military VT-231’s have a following. I have a pair of Sylvania VT-231’s that sound amazing in the Euforia. Others have had success with RCA, Ken-Rad, National Union, etc. LOTS of great options on the 6SN7’s.  The unicorns are Melz 1578’s (late 50’s or early 60’s) and the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate (BGRP).
> 
> For the power tubes, the GEC 6080 are a huge step up from the stock tubes. The unicorns are Tung Sol 5998 or Western Electric 421A.


Thanks for that, that's really useful as I no doubt will add some of these after I've ran in the normal tubes/amp. You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on this though... do all those fit without an adapter? Cheers.


----------



## JTbbb

Toonartist said:


> Thanks for that, that's really useful as I no doubt will add some of these after I've ran in the normal tubes/amp. You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on this though... do all those fit without an adapter? Cheers.


Yes, they all fit without an adapter.


----------



## toddc2

JTbbb said:


> Yes, they all fit without an adapter.


Yes I try to keep things simple and stick with drop in replacements. If you read through this thread and the 6SN7 tube rolling thread there are lots of very cool tubes that can be used with adapters, some of which require external power supplies.


----------



## Toonartist

Best laid plans and all that. As they say, plans often got awol after first contact. In this instance, first contact with my Feliks dealer and the Eurforia AE ended up as an Oak Envy! Just waiting on a delivery date… I was told it’ll be about 5 weeks or so! Can’t wait 😊


----------



## incredulousity

Toonartist said:


> Best laid plans and all that. As they say, plans often got awol after first contact. In this instance, first contact with my Feliks dealer and the Eurforia AE ended up as an Oak Envy! Just waiting on a delivery date… I was told it’ll be about 5 weeks or so! Can’t wait 😊


Wow. That is the epic upsell.


----------



## Toonartist

Tell me about it. Well, I had a stash after selling a load of gear so I thought, what the hell. Like the Meze Elite stopped me thinking about other headphones, I’m hoping this will stop me thinking about other amps… I know, famous last words and all that 😂


----------



## incredulousity

Toonartist said:


> Tell me about it. Well, I had a stash after selling a load of gear so I thought, what the hell. Like the Meze Elite stopped me thinking about other headphones, I’m hoping this will stop me thinking about other amps… I know, famous last words and all that 😂


I’m sure I’ll envy the Envy enough to get one at some point. Maybe I’ll buy the first available buyer’s regret one that appears in the forum!

And I just ought a second Elite, because I need one for my secondary locations as well.


----------



## Toonartist

Good thing, you can never have too much Meze Elite 👍🏻


----------



## JTbbb

Toonartist said:


> Best laid plans and all that. As they say, plans often got awol after first contact. In this instance, first contact with my Feliks dealer and the Eurforia AE ended up as an Oak Envy! Just waiting on a delivery date… I was told it’ll be about 5 weeks or so! Can’t wait 😊


Ooh, there’s going to be some Envious people here 😀. Looking forward to some pics and thoughts when you get it.


----------



## Alson Chua

Hi all. my matched pair of power tubes 6N13S (NOS) that originally comes with the Euforia has just dead on me. I think some thing inside is lose.. i am so lazy to go through the whole thread again.. what is the better üpgrades tube i can buy to replace? thanks in adv!


----------



## Magol79

Alson Chua said:


> Hi all. my matched pair of power tubes 6N13S (NOS) that originally comes with the Euforia has just dead on me. I think some thing inside is lose.. i am so lazy to go through the whole thread again.. what is the better üpgrades tube i can buy to replace? thanks in adv!


6080 tubes are good replacements. Usually not too expensive.


----------



## Alson Chua

Thank you so much!


----------



## JTbbb

Alson Chua said:


> Hi all. my matched pair of power tubes 6N13S (NOS) that originally comes with the Euforia has just dead on me. I think some thing inside is lose.. i am so lazy to go through the whole thread again.. what is the better üpgrades tube i can buy to replace? thanks in adv!


6080’s recommended by Magol79 are indeed a step up from the original tubes at reasonable prices, but what are considered the best 6080’s are pricey, like the Bendix Graphite Plates. You could of course search out Tungsol 5998’s or WE421a’s, which are generally considered to be up with the best. These are also pricey!


----------



## Alson Chua (May 24, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> 6080’s recommended by Magol79 are indeed a step up from the original tubes at reasonable prices, but what are considered the best 6080’s are pricey, like the Bendix Graphite Plates. You could of course search out Tungsol 5998’s or WE421a’s, which are generally considered to be up with the best. These are also pricey!


I dont mind the price but to be honest i have no knowleage about tubes and the code. I search on 6080 it came up a lot of tubes hahaha so really no sure which is which.. much appreciate is got the actual code or name  been listening to the original ones for very long time so good or not only ears can tell haha..

6080 graphite plates
Tungsol 5998
WE421a

Thanks guys i try to search on this 3  you guys always so helpful


----------



## Henrim

This might be a dumb question, but can you put the 6080 family in the driver position, and 6SN7 in as powers?


----------



## Magol79

Henrim said:


> This might be a dumb question, but can you put the 6080 family in the driver position, and 6SN7 in as powers?


No, I don't think so. They may fit, but I think they are wired differently. They also have different amplification factors, so that could cause bad sound. 

With the proper adaptors you can use many different kind of tubes. Like EL34, KT88, EL3N etc.


----------



## Henrim

I’ve got the KT family adapters already, and the interesting thing is you can use the KT family in both power and driver position. No idea how it works though so wondering if some of the old timers have tried it @connieflyer, @hypnos1 @incredulousity


----------



## LoryWiv

Henrim said:


> I’ve got the KT family adapters already, and the interesting thing is you can use the KT family in both power and driver position. No idea how it works though so wondering if some of the old timers have tried it @connieflyer, @hypnos1 @incredulousity


Feel free to PM for any specific questions as I understand perusing the entire thread would be a chore! I'll try to help if I can.


----------



## connieflyer

Henrim said:


> I’ve got the KT family adapters already, and the interesting thing is you can use the KT family in both power and driver position. No idea how it works though so wondering if some of the old timers have tried it @connieflyer, @hypnos1 @incredulousity


I have used the KT77, as drivers,kt66 ,kt88 as powers also kt66 as drivers with kt88 as powers. Used these in both Elise and Euforia with good results


----------



## flea22

Hey guys
Just rolled some nos ecc31 tubes with the correct adapters and the sound is horrible and grainy! I have ecc32 tubes that sound nothing like this.

I wonder if the adapters are dodgy? Or if the tubes need a little while to settle down?


----------



## SlothRock (Jun 3, 2022)

Got a new friend to pair with my Euforia today! Upgraded from the Bifrost 2. Still putting it through its paces and only have a couple hours with it but I'm wowed by what I'm hearing so far.  One thing that's been very helpful is the upgraded galvanized USB port. My Euforia had been picking up noise and I became convinced it was due to being hooked up to my gaming PC. Low and behold, it's dead silent now. Works great!

Hearing even more micro details than with the Bifrost 2 and a much more natural sound that sounds truer to the source. Can't wait to log many more hours with this combo!


----------



## incredulousity (Jun 3, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Got a new friend to pair with my Euforia today! Upgraded from the Bifrost 2.


That’s quite the upgrade. Pairs well with Euforia AE?

Also, great keyboard!


----------



## SlothRock

incredulousity said:


> That’s quite the upgrade. Pairs well with Euforia AE?
> 
> Also, great keyboard!



Thank ya sir! It pairs very, very well with the Euforia. Combo has really opened everything up even more than it had been previously, micro details are a lot more apparent and it sounds like I'm just hearing my Euforia with no added coloration (other than the coloration that the tubes add of course ). Great first impressions!


----------



## Renexx

SlothRock said:


> Thank ya sir! It pairs very, very well with the Euforia. Combo has really opened everything up even more than it had been previously, micro details are a lot more apparent and it sounds like I'm just hearing my Euforia with no added coloration (other than the coloration that the tubes add of course ). Great first impressions!


I thought the Holo audio gear is more on the warm side.

How does the spring portrait macrodynamics especially compared to the punchy bifrost2? 

When I did upgrade my Chord Qutest to Rockna Wavelight I did notice an amazing jump in macrodynamics.
My Qutest had a strong microfocus and that was always a downside for me. The Euphoria felt lacking in the low-end.


----------



## SlothRock

Renexx said:


> I thought the Holo audio gear is more on the warm side.
> 
> How does the spring portrait macrodynamics especially compared to the punchy bifrost2?
> 
> ...


Ya, it may lean on the warm side but the Bifrost 2 is a lot warmer so, coming from that, the coloration feels minimal.

Unlike what I’ve read others say about Spring being “soft” before it really breaks in, I haven’t felt that at all. It’s not as punchy as the Bifrost 2 but I haven’t been lacking for impact in listening so far and I find the differences there minimal. In fact, I felt my Atrium getting slightly too boomy for me on some tracks with my Bifrost 2 and with the Spring 3, it still had a similar level of impact but tamed the bass from getting too boomy. 

I’m a massive bass fan so I’d have been upset if I felt like I lost anything there. Feels like I gained quite a bit but, again, this is only 2 hours in so I’ll need many more hours to flesh out my thoughts more.


----------



## Renexx

My impressions of the Qutest was it was a little bit too smooth and shy of bass together with the Euphoria. Staging was impressive compared to delta sigma.

The Rockna is more forward, more impact  if the song calls for it and with the filters I can control it's warmth. With neutral tubes I love the warm filters and with Euphonic tubes I switch to linear Filter.

I think the Euphoria is Boomy in general. A solid state is much more punchy. That is caused by the output impedance i guess.
At some point I will buy the cayin iha-6 amp as a solid state alternative. It will have different output impedances but might be more controlled due to the solid state nature.


----------



## BrainSalat (Jun 3, 2022)

That's something I like of the ADI-2 PRO/DAC that's like a swiss army knife. By default is death neutral but you can adjust it to a target tonality through its DSP features like the PEQ, bass/treble controls, loudness. Aside of that the invaluable 5 modes crossfeed to make sound your headphones more like loudspeakers, specially with old jazz recordings. A combination of the previous can be saved as presets.


----------



## Renexx

BrainSalat said:


> That's something I like of the ADI-2 PRO/DAC that's like a swiss army knife. By default is death neutral but you can adjust it to a target tonality through its DSP features like the PEQ, bass/treble controls, loudness. Aside of that the invaluable 5 modes crossfeed to make sound your headphones more like loudspeakers, specially with old jazz recordings.


I came from the RME ADI 2 DAC FS. There was some glare in the treble. The Qutest was more relaxed in that case. 
Staging was kind of congested compared to Qutest.

The loudness feature was good for quiet listening sessions.


----------



## BrainSalat

Renexx said:


> I came from the RME ADI 2 DAC FS. There was some glare in the treble


That could be due your DAC filter selection. A SLOW filter may give you a more relaxed top scale.


----------



## Renexx

BrainSalat said:


> That could be due your DAC filter selection. A SLOW filter may give you a more relaxed top scale.


To be honest I could barely tell any difference in the filters of the RME. I believe I useally used slow or NOS Filter.

In the filters of my Rockna I can tell significant changes in the tuning.
No looking back to my old DACs anyway. The Rockna out performs them by far. Endgame... hopefully.


----------



## incredulousity

Renexx said:


> To be honest I could barely tell any difference in the filters of the RME. I believe I useally used slow or NOS Filter.
> 
> In the filters of my Rockna I can tell significant changes in the tuning.
> No looking back to my old DACs anyway. The Rockna out performs them by far. Endgame... hopefully.


I love my RME ADI-2 FS. I have 3 of them. I prefer to feed it DSD, either from DSD sources or with upsampling by Audirvāna. This sounds better to me than the filters in the DAC applied to PCM.


----------



## Deleeh

SlothRock said:


> Got a new friend to pair with my Euforia today! Upgraded from the Bifrost 2. Still putting it through its paces and only have a couple hours with it but I'm wowed by what I'm hearing so far.  One thing that's been very helpful is the upgraded galvanized USB port. My Euforia had been picking up noise and I became convinced it was due to being hooked up to my gaming PC. Low and behold, it's dead silent now. Works great!
> 
> Hearing even more micro details than with the Bifrost 2 and a much more natural sound that sounds truer to the source. Can't wait to log many more hours with this combo!


Hello,

Is this the Kte version you bought or one level below Lv 2?

Did you buy with preamp or without?

You wrote very detailed, what about the macrodynamics?

Sorry for all the questions but I am also thinking of buying one in the near future and have my heart set on the Lv2 version.
Because I thought the Kte version might be a bit too thick in my case.

I have the normal Euforia version and upgraded.
Of course it is an upgrade for you compared to the Bitfrost.And also congratulations from my side by the way.
I'm looking forward to hearing more of your sound impressions.
Have fun with it, hope you enjoy it.


----------



## SlothRock

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is this the Kte version you bought or one level below Lv 2?
> 
> ...


Thanks! Just sent a PM to discuss


----------



## KrauserX91

Question... Is it worth to get Euforia AE vs Crack/Echo MKII for Atrium if is it my first tube amp? A shop in my area has tax off weekend and 21% discount on this amp. Or would you recommend start Crack/Echo MKII?


----------



## Renexx

KrauserX91 said:


> Question... Is it worth to get Euforia AE vs Crack/Echo MKII for Atrium if is it my first tube amp? A shop in my area has tax off weekend and 21% discount on this amp. Or would you recommend start Crack/Echo MKII?


I can't compare with other tube amps as this is my first. 
The AE sounds amazing with ZMF headphones. Technicalities are good like a solid state amp but wit added seperation/staging, a wet midrange, awesome warm tone of tubes and softer playback of the ZMF drivers. Tube rolling possibilities are plenty, you can spend a fortune for them and they are all worth owning.

Right now I discover tube types outside of 6sn7/6as7 recommended by the manufacturer. Lots of fun ahead.





After going with tubes there is no going back to Solid state. Tube rolling is immensely pleasing. No regrets, except the wasted wealth.

Tubes have many downsides also.

Warm up time , no black background as there is always some hum or hiss, prices , limited lifetime of tubes , arcing over that can damage your headphone, loose tube sockets, shady tube sellers and so on. 

Your solid state will always be more reliable.
The cheaper tube amps might come with cheaper available tubes and might be a good start. Euphoria is an all in dive into the rabbit hole. Enjoy.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

totally agree with Renexx.
I too am experiencing the Euforia on a whole other level with the recently acquired Zmf Auteur.
The Euforia is definitely one of the amps that is Zmf headphone capable and has a lot of potential to match sound preferences with the tubes.

Apart from that, the offer of the Euforia with the tax saving is a good and worthwhile thing to buy.

You might want to see if you can get it without the tubes.
The stock tubes are really not that great, there are much better and cheaper tubes.
And you would get the Euforia a little cheaper without tubes.

You can forget about the Crack and Echo, the Euforia is much better than these two amplifiers.
The AE has even better performance than the normal Euforia and even better wiring. And of course it's better in terms of quality.
The Echo would be ok, but not satisfactory. The choice of tubes is also more limited.


----------



## JTbbb

Renexx said:


> Tubes have many downsides also.
> 
> Warm up time , no black background as there is always some hum or hiss, prices , limited lifetime of tubes , arcing over that can damage your headphone, loose tube sockets, shady tube sellers and so on.
> 
> ...


Wow, that paints a bad picture! Yes all of the above Renexx mentions can and does exist, but let’s deal with each one.

1. Warm up time. Yes, some people like to let their tubes warm up. I turn the tube amp on first, and by the time I’ve switched everything else on and got the headphones ready. I’m ready to go!

2. Black Background. 90% of my tubes are totally silent, the others the hum/hiss is barely audible. It is also dependent on the impedance of your headphones.

3. Tube Lifetime. Tubes are built to last many 1000’s of hours and with careful selection and advice from forum members, you are unlikely to buy worn out tubes.

4. Tube Arcing. It can happen, but rarely, and unlikely with known tubes you use regularly. So the advice is:- When installing new tubes to you, plug in a cheap pair of sacrificial headphones first, just to be sure 👍.

5. Shady Tube Sellers. Definitely, especially eBay. But there is always help from forum members. And of course buying tubes from the forum classifieds is a pretty safe bet.


----------



## KrauserX91

I was scaried about these things, mostly the tube arcing. I could not bear the thought a tube killing my Arium, would be so heartbreaking. So installing new tubes, any cheap headphones in amazon are OK? Or do they need to obe of a certain grade? I mean, I dont think the earphones the airlines give you are OK for the sacrifice test.

Warm up and lifetime is something you know you have to handle with that since you go tubes.

And the hum, as you mention, I guess with the proper quality tubes will not happen.


----------



## Renexx (Jun 5, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Wow, that paints a bad picture! Yes all of the above Renexx mentions can and does exist, but let’s deal with each one.
> 
> 1. Warm up time. Yes, some people like to let their tubes warm up. I turn the tube amp on first, and by the time I’ve switched everything else on and got the headphones ready. I’m ready to go!
> 
> ...


Your totally right. I just wanted to paint the picture that there are problems you don't encounter with a solid state amps. I had to learn that the hard way when my Euphoria had an lightning arc and needed to go back to Feliks for repair.
What Feliks doesn't tell you is: You should use socket savers for 6080 tubes because their bases are too big for the recessed sockets of the Euphoria. The pins don't reach fully into the socket and can cause an lightning arc that will damage some micro-controller inside the amp.


Another thing to add to the picture is OTL Vs SET amps 

The Feliks Euphoria is designed to power high impedance dynamic headphones like ZMF Sennheiser, Beyerdynamics.
For brands like focal, Fostex , Audeze it will screw the frequency response to some degree or will not provide enough current  for planar headphones to make them sound as intended.

The Euphoria will limit your choice in headphones but drives them beautifully.

If you want to drive planar headphones or low impedance dynamics aswell consider an output transformer coupled amp like the Woo audio WA22.



KrauserX91 said:


> I was scaried about these things, mostly the tube arcing. I could not bear the thought a tube killing my Arium, would be so heartbreaking. So installing new tubes, any cheap headphones in amazon are OK? Or do they need to obe of a certain grade? I mean, I dont think the earphones the airlines give you are OK for the sacrifice test.


Arc over useally happens at the power up of the amp. We useally plug off the headphones for warm up time so the tubes can warm up and stabilize. After 10 Minutes your headphones is relatively safe and you can continue warm up time playing music.


----------



## JTbbb

KrauserX91 said:


> I was scaried about these things, mostly the tube arcing. I could not bear the thought a tube killing my Arium, would be so heartbreaking. So installing new tubes, any cheap headphones in amazon are OK? Or do they need to obe of a certain grade? I mean, I dont think the earphones the airlines give you are OK for the sacrifice test.
> 
> Warm up and lifetime is something you know you have to handle with that since you go tubes.
> 
> And the hum, as you mention, I guess with the proper quality tubes will not happen.


Any old headphones will do. I use an old pair of Bose headphones that you could plug into early iPads etc.

Any tube can hum/hiss, just ask the seller. Some professional tube sellers don’t have the facilities to listen to the tubes, but will accept returns.


----------



## Magol79

KrauserX91 said:


> Question... Is it worth to get Euforia AE vs Crack/Echo MKII for Atrium if is it my first tube amp? A shop in my area has tax off weekend and 21% discount on this amp. Or would you recommend start Crack/Echo MKII?


I have had the Echo mk I, Espressivo mkII and now the regular Euforia. The Echo is a warmer and darker amp with stock tubes. Tube rolling can help give it more clarity, IME. 

The Espressivo really is a baby Euforia with a more neutral and detailed sound compared to the Echo mk I. 

The Euforia can be considered an endgame amp for high ohm dynamic headphones. It also has the current delivery to drive planar headphones that are not too hard to drive. It powers my Arya Stealth without problem. 

The Euforia is a fairly neutral amp, with the added staging and holographic presentation from tubes.


----------



## Deleeh (Jun 5, 2022)

KrauserX91 said:


> I was scaried about these things, mostly the tube arcing. I could not bear the thought a tube killing my Arium, would be so heartbreaking. So installing new tubes, any cheap headphones in amazon are OK? Or do they need to obe of a certain grade? I mean, I dont think the earphones the airlines give you are OK for the sacrifice test.
> 
> Warm up and lifetime is something you know you have to handle with that since you go tubes.
> 
> And the hum, as you mention, I guess with the proper quality tubes will not happen.



No, it's not that bad.

As a rule, the Euforia switches off because it is protected by a fuse.
So if something should happen when it is switched on, it would trigger it.

I had the Euforia in repair once because the left channel failed, not because of the tubes but because of a chip in the headphone socket.
The right channel still worked and ran normally. Without any other parts breaking down.

I switch on my Euforia normally and check if the tubes start to glow, if so I let it warm up.
If not, something is wrong.

Feliks also recommends before and after switching off to turn down the volume potentiometer and to pull the headphones out of the socket.
You quickly get used to this.

If I can recommend anything, get an adapter made or buy one with a 6.3 mm input jack and a 6.3 mm output jack on the other side and always leave it plugged in. And always plug the headphones into this adapter.
This protects the jack from being plugged in and out and saves you from possible repairs or malfunctions that may occur.
Use a Phone with minimum 32 ohm when you would be sure.

Everything else you don't need to worry about - the Euforia will not destroy your beautiful atrium.
The Euforia also has Eu certification.

You should not run it for more than 8 hours at a time because the capacitors need to recover, even if it can handle more.
If it has been running for more than 8 hours, you will hear that it is no longer running optimally, and it is rare for it to be left running for so long, but with a break of an hour everything will be fine again.

With the 6as7g and 6080 tubes, make sure that there is always enough fresh air in the room.
In winter this is not a problem, but in summer it is.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> I had the Euforia in repair once because the left channel failed, not because of the tubes but because of a chip in the headphone socket.
> The right channel still worked and ran normally. Without any other parts breaking down.


Mine did exactly the same, and was repaired here in the UK. In fact I took the opportunity (as was advised by the repairer) to have the whole 6.3 mm socket replaced with a higher quality unit.


----------



## KrauserX91

Magol79 said:


> The Euforia can be considered an endgame amp for high ohm dynamic headphones. It also has the current delivery to drive planar headphones that are not too hard to drive. It powers my Arya Stealth without problem.
> 
> The Euforia is a fairly neutral amp, with the added staging and holographic presentation from tubes.



As I want to improve the soundstage for Atriums, and I love the Edition XS, that makes me think I would be more than satisfied with Atrium+Arya Stealth and the Euforia.



Deleeh said:


> No, it's not that bad.
> 
> As a rule, the Euforia switches off because it is protected by a fuse.
> So if something should happen when it is switched on, it would trigger it.
> ...



Amazing explanation. That makes me to be more relief about to adquire this tube amp


----------



## SlothRock

I’ll echo what everyone here is saying about the Euforia AE. It’s amazing. It’s also my first tube amp (decided to just jump all the way in) and I regret 0 about the purchase. It puts ZMF’s on a whole other level, it’s dead silent (especially if using a streamer DAC or some type of galvanized usb input for your DAC if connected to a computer to ensure computer noise doesn’t get picked up), sounds incredible, can be fine tuned to your preferences with a wide variety of tubes and a ton of helpful and knowledgeable folks right here on this forum that can guide you through any questions you’d have.

I use my Euforia 80% of the time compared to my SS at 20% probably


----------



## Sajid Amit

SlothRock said:


> I’ll echo what everyone here is saying about the Euforia AE. It’s amazing. It’s also my first tube amp (decided to just jump all the way in) and I regret 0 about the purchase. It puts ZMF’s on a whole other level, it’s dead silent (especially if using a streamer DAC or some type of galvanized usb input for your DAC if connected to a computer to ensure computer noise doesn’t get picked up), sounds incredible, can be fine tuned to your preferences with a wide variety of tubes and a ton of helpful and knowledgeable folks right here on this forum that can guide you through any questions you’d have.
> 
> I use my Euforia 80% of the time compared to my SS at 20% probably


Agree 100%.

My Verite Closed has become a super-charged Verite Closed.

It improves everything about it, I think. It's so good that I have listened to this pairing mostly for enjoyment and not yet, critically (in that haven't done A/B with other amps, have just ignored all my solid states because the Euforia AE is so good).

It also *greatly, greatly* scales the 6XX.


----------



## KrauserX91 (Jun 5, 2022)

Ok guys, you win, I will get it 



Deleeh said:


> If I can recommend anything, get an adapter made or buy one with a 6.3 mm input jack and a 6.3 mm output jack on the other side and always leave it plugged in. And always plug the headphones into this adapter.



My ZMF stock cable is 6.3, do you know a shop with that adapter combination? I cannot find since probably weird combination. Or is it OK using 6.3 to 3.5 plugged to headphone, and the 3.5 to 6.3 adapter plugged in amp always?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
This is just an example of what it should look like.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/141164611004

I wouldn't take this now because the cable is much too long at 5 m.
There are shorter pieces with a length of just under 15 - 30 cm, which is sufficient.

Otherwise, take a look at Hart Audio cables and see if you can find what you're looking for.

https://hartaudiocables.com/pages/custom-shop
Make an enquiry there, because I haven't found anything in the shop at the last minute.
Or other cable manufacturers who offer such cables at an acceptable price.
It doesn't have to cost a fortune.
Hart audio cables are relatively cheap.

If you know someone or are a bit experienced yourself, you can also do it yourself.
You only need a 6.3mm jack plug as input and the counterpart for the plug as output and preferably a 4-core cable.
And solder the same colours of the cable at the respective ends for right, left and ground.
The other cable in the 4-wire cable does not need any attention as you only need 3 poles.
It is relatively quick to do if you know how to solder a little, so it should not be a big problem.

And congratulations on the Euforia if you have it.😉


----------



## swissheadphonelover (Jun 6, 2022)

KrauserX91 said:


> My ZMF stock cable is 6.3, do you know a shop with that adapter combination? I cannot find since probably weird combination. Or is it OK using 6.3 to 3.5 plugged to headphone, and the 3.5 to 6.3 adapter plugged in amp always?


I use this one from Audioworks with my Euforia FAW Noir Mk2/Noir Hybrid Extender 100% satisfied


----------



## KrauserX91 (Jun 6, 2022)

swissheadphonelover said:


> I use this one from Audioworks with my Euforia FAW Noir Mk2/Noir Hybrid Extender 100% satisfied



This is perfect! Thank you!!





I will use meanwhile 3.5 to 6.3 plugged on amp, and 6.3 to 3.5 adapter plugged to headphone, weird, but I guess temporary fix


----------



## Quince

KrauserX91 said:


> I will use meanwhile 3.5 to 6.3 plugged on amp, and 6.3 to 3.5 adapter plugged to headphone, weird, but I guess temporary fix


I suggest not to do so. The length and weight of all the 2 adapters + HP cable/plug is going to add weight and act as leverage in the amp socket puling downwards


----------



## Salmonad

Just pulled the trigger and ordered my Euforia AE.  I’m looking forward to being part of the community.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Does anyone know what would cause a sudden distortion and loud pop in the left channel? I stopped playing music after it happened and checked all the connections again. I didn't notice anything off and tried playing music again, but now everything seems to be fine. Was worried if something got damaged during shipping.


----------



## mordy

ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know what would cause a sudden distortion and loud pop in the left channel? I stopped playing music after it happened and checked all the connections again. I didn't notice anything off and tried playing music again, but now everything seems to be fine. Was worried if something got damaged during shipping.


Based on my experience these noises are caused by tubes. It could be something temporary but things like this underscore always to be careful when you turn on the equipment and use a cheap headphone set that you don’t have to worry about if you blow a driver.
Most (but not all) of these instances happen when you turn on your amp or after a short time.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

Which tubes do you currently have in it that are causing this noise?

Do you follow the rule of turning down the volume potentiometer, unplugging the headphones, and then switching them on and off in the same way?

Spontaneously, I would have guessed the tube.
You can try other tubes to see if it is only caused by this pair that is currently plugged in or if it is the same with other tubes.
This would at least give you a clue as to whether it is the tubes or possibly a defect in the Euforia.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Which tubes do you currently have in it that are causing this noise?
> 
> ...


Old audiophile proverb: *If they make it, it hums*.


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> Old audiophile proverb: *If they make it, it hums*.


…if you don’t like the hum, sing along…🤪


----------



## ctaxxxx

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Which tubes do you currently have in it that are causing this noise?
> 
> ...



The original tubes. Yeah, I followed those steps like I do with all my amps. I think I found what could have caused it? 

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/otl-headphone-amp-makes-popping-noise.1031171/

I’m doing line out from my FiiO M17 into the Feliks amp. I remembered that I forgot the M17 was still in phone out mode (variable volume), so I switched to line out (max volume) while it was still on. I wonder if the sudden change was what caused it? 

I’ve been doing follow up listens and it all seems fine now. 



mordy said:


> Based on my experience these noises are caused by tubes. It could be something temporary but things like this underscore always to be careful when you turn on the equipment and use a cheap headphone set that you don’t have to worry about if you blow a driver.
> Most (but not all) of these instances happen when you turn on your amp or after a short time.


Oof. I didn’t know tube amps carry this much risk. Last thing I want to break are $2000 headphones…


----------



## KrauserX91

I got the amp yesterday. I am trying to assimilate yet what I am hearing, this sound is totally new for me.


----------



## Deleeh

KrauserX91 said:


> I got the amp yesterday. I am trying to assimilate yet what I am hearing, this sound is totally new for me.


Hello,  
and congratulations.
Take your time, the amplifier will change a few times due to the burn in process.
Give it at least 100 hours to run in before you judge it for the first time.
Also the tubes will need time to get there, especially the Ps Vane tubes will need about 200h, maybe a bit more.

Someone once said that the Ps Vane sound good in phases and then worse again in time.
That's why you should take your time with it.

Which headphones do you actually use to listen to the good stuff?

Remember not to leave them on for more than 8 hours at a time, and in the summer to let in enough fresh air because of the heat build-up etc....
As a tip, tend to switch them on in the evening or in the morning.

It can also smell a bit at the beginning, don't let this influence you, this is normal at the beginning. These are normal grease and glue from the tubes that smell a little, and the paint is still evaporating a little due to the heat.

Otherwise, have fun and welcome to the Feliks Club .
Let me know if you need a tube tip, there are very good capable people here who have already tried some.


----------



## JTbbb

KrauserX91 said:


> I got the amp yesterday. I am trying to assimilate yet what I am hearing, this sound is totally new for me.


Those psvane drivers are good, but those powers can definitely be improved on.


----------



## KrauserX91

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> and congratulations.
> Take your time, the amplifier will change a few times due to the burn in process.
> Give it at least 100 hours to run in before you judge it for the first time.
> ...



Hi! 

I am using Atrium with stock leather pads.

The 5 first hours I can say how amazing classic rock sounds here, it improved so much, by difference comparing with Jot2. Something I got shocked is how much changed the songs, I feel instruments separation changed a lot, some songs noticed the instruments are at the background and the singer has gained presence, but at the same time, guitars are drums are so detailed.

Other genres feels so weird yet, don't know if the feeling is what people call muddy and will solve with the burn in. Anyway, rock got addictive with Atrium here. I have to test Arya Stealth yet.

For tube tips, I guess there are combinations depending on what you want improve in your setup, right?


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> and congratulations.
> Take your time, the amplifier will change a few times due to the burn in process.
> Give it at least 100 hours to run in before you judge it for the first time.
> ...


Over the years there has been some problems with the Feliks amps due to heat build-up (in addition to some problems with the headphone jack). One simple and low cost way to avoid heat problems is to use USB powered fans to blow air on the amp. The ones I use come in 3" and 4" models with dual fans and a speed controller.
Aesthetically maybe not the prettiest, but perhaps there are ways to hide them.



https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...55609610&sprefix=ac+usb+fan+4+,aps,109&sr=8-5
The 4" fan set is $20 and the 3" set is $16. You need to provide a USB charger - 2-3A is better than an 1A charger. The fans are very quiet. I know that Feliks does not recommend that the amps stay on more than 8 hours at one time but IMHO you can leave the amp on longer when using the fans.


----------



## tinariwen

Hey guys,

New Euforia AE owner, here. Came from the Cayin HA-6A which I loved with my ZMF VCs, but then I got the Atriums and it wasn’t cutting the mustard. So I got my hands on the Euforia and wow - it’s hit the Goldilocks zone for me. Absolutely fantastic pairing.

I’ve got a few KT88 and KT77 / EL34 tubes from my Cayin that I’d like to try, but I’m struggling to find a quality adapter. I’ve done a search but not found much that way, either.

Can anyone recommend an adapter that will let me try out those other tubes? For reference I’ve got the Gold Lion KT88s, the PSVane KT88s, and the Gold Lion KT77s.

Cheers!


----------



## incredulousity

tinariwen said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> New Euforia AE owner, here. Came from the Cayin HA-6A which I loved with my ZMF VCs, but then I got the Atriums and it wasn’t cutting the mustard. So I got my hands on the Euforia and wow - it’s hit the Goldilocks zone for me. Absolutely fantastic pairing.
> 
> ...


@Deyan can make you the appropriate adapters. PM him.


----------



## Renexx

tinariwen said:


> New Euforia AE owner, here. Came from the Cayin HA-6A which I loved with my ZMF VCs, but then I got the Atriums and it wasn’t cutting the mustard.


We would love to hear some comparison feedback for both amps.👍

It's always helpful to hear how other amps might compare to the tube rolling glory on the Euphoria.


----------



## KrauserX91

I have been done some progress since I got my amp on Thursday. I still with Atrium burn-in as well.

Atrium 120h (90h before get Euforia), Euforia AE 30h. It is not the same amp, the improvement is so big and listening rock and metal is getting more and more addictive. 

Also, today I tested the Arya Stealth, and wow, this is lots of soundstage and bass at cost of sacrifice sharpness (not much) and that brightness that Is like a sword edge for my ears, which make it perfect for me 

If this still improving like that, I will feel the Jot2 a downgrade in all ways.


----------



## Deleeh

Sounds good.
Be sure to give the Atrium enough hours to play in.
250h would not be wrong and will probably change a bit as well as the amplifier.

I'm a bit surprised that the Arya performs so well.
I wouldn't have thought so because it is so low ohmic.
I still have a Lcd 2C that I use with it and at the beginning I was very disappointed and then the tube change brought out the most.

@tinariwen

As incredulousity wrote, there is a member Deyan who makes very good adapters for acceptable money.
I have bought some from him and so have other members and it was all good.
They are also better than all the Made in China you find everywhere.
I can only recommend buying from Deyan.
It sometimes takes a while because he has a few requests, but even then it's worth the wait.

Oh yes, welcome to Feliksckub by the way 👍.
It would be great if you could write a little comparison between the Euforia and Cayin amplifier.
It also looks very nice and I have read some good and bad things about it.
I'm curious to hear what you have to say.


----------



## Magol79

Has anyone tried Millard ECC33 tubes in the Euforia? 

The manual says that ECC32 tubes are fine to use. Are the ECC33 interchangeable?


----------



## KrauserX91

Deleeh said:


> I'm a bit surprised that the Arya performs so well.
> I wouldn't have thought so because it is so low ohmic.


I loved the Edition XS so much that I got the Arya Stealth for extra comfort, sound improvement and also thinking in the 32 ohm, the minimum recommended for euforia, could work, and get even a wider soundstage, and it seems it works. Maybe issnt for some people, but I like it, tho I am missing today a bit the brightness, I guess depends on my mood. Another thing is I don't know if its because the type of the amp or output impedance, but I am using 60% knob on Arya and 40% on Atrium despite of the Atrium impedance is much higher.

Btw, do anyone recommend a nice pair of RCA? I am using  8€ cables from Amazon right now as provisional.


----------



## BrainSalat

KrauserX91 said:


> Another thing is I don't know if its because the type of the amp or output impedance, but I am using 60% knob on Arya and 40% on Atrium despite of the Atrium impedance is much higher.


it's because of the sensitivity of the headphones. The Atrium is more sensitive (96dB/mW) than the Arya (94dB/mW)


----------



## Deleeh

KrauserX91 said:


> I loved the Edition XS so much that I got the Arya Stealth for extra comfort, sound improvement and also thinking in the 32 ohm, the minimum recommended for euforia, could work, and get even a wider soundstage, and it seems it works. Maybe issnt for some people, but I like it, tho I am missing today a bit the brightness, I guess depends on my mood. Another thing is I don't know if its because the type of the amp or output impedance, but I am using 60% knob on Arya and 40% on Atrium despite of the Atrium impedance is much higher.
> 
> Btw, do anyone recommend a nice pair of RCA? I am using  8€ cables from Amazon right now as provisional.


Hello,
Do you mean the Rca cable or the Rca tubes?

The Rca tubes are not that great.
The red audio quest cable is not bad as a cable.
Only the plugs are a bit tight.


----------



## JTbbb

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Do you mean the Rca cable or the Rca tubes?
> 
> The Rca tubes are not that great.
> ...


The rca vt231 grey glass are pretty good 👍


----------



## BrainSalat

JTbbb said:


> The rca vt231 grey glass are pretty good 👍


Yes and so far I know the RCA 5692 red base as well.


----------



## mordy

BrainSalat said:


> Yes and so far I know the RCA 5692 red base as well.


I think he means RCA cables. As far as tubes go, there are a number of nice sounding RCAs.


----------



## KrauserX91

I was meaning to cables, even didn't know RCA tubes exist


----------



## tinariwen

I’m gonna put together my thoughts on the HA-6A soon. I just need a bit more time with the Euforia to give a more accurate comparison.

In the meantime, has anyone heard the new Cayin HA-300 mk2? If so, how does it compare to the Euforia AE? I’m particularly interested in speed and transients


----------



## mordy

With the risk of incurring the wrath of the cognoscenti I want to describe an experiment with the Euforia involving multiple tubes. For power tubes I am using 6 x 0.9A tubes for a total of 5.4A. 2.7A/channel is close to the OEM 2.5A tubes.
Way back Mrs Ling Zu manufactured a 6 socket adapter that fits the Elise/Euforia. It is wired for external power so that you can use multiple tubes and also tubes with a higher current draw than the amp was designed for. In this case external power is not needed, but I used what I have. The 15A power supply is a from a PC and the 12V tap is routed through a 15A voltage regulator for 6.3V.
Drivers are a pair of 6J5GT tubes.
First a night picture to soften the "Frankentube" impact:




I am a believer in fan cooling to lower the temperature of the amp and to allow for extended periods for the amp to stay on. I used a sophisticated rubber mounting device (a couple of rubber bands) to put two "earmuff" 3" USB powered fans on the amp - one on each side of the transformer housing. After being on for over 12 hours the temperature is around 37C for the hotpoints on the amp chassis. Based on the only study I came across about the correlation between the external and internal temperatures of a tube amp, the inside should not exceed 40C.



The sound from this ungainly setup is better than what I had before with all the tube combinations I tried.
This is how it looks like:



This setup is completely silent at all listening levels except for unlistenable earsplitting levels.


----------



## myphone

Mordy, that is really cool.


----------



## SlothRock

So I just ordered the Susvara - has anyone ever tested one out on the Euforia 20th AE? I know it's more powerful than the other Feliks amps but not particularly meant to drive something as difficult as the Susvara like their Envy amp. Curious if anyone has tried the combo though and if it's worked and sounded good?


----------



## Sajid Amit

SlothRock said:


> So I just ordered the Susvara - has anyone ever tested one out on the Euforia 20th AE? I know it's more powerful than the other Feliks amps but not particularly meant to drive something as difficult as the Susvara like their Envy amp. Curious if anyone has tried the combo though and if it's worked and sounded good?


I have the AE. Not remotely enough for the Sus, am afraid. But unassailable with ZMF.


----------



## SlothRock

That's what I figured -it shall be dedicated to the OOR + Hypsos then


----------



## Deleeh

@mordy, that's an interesting thing you're doing.
It would be too hot for me personally and it probably takes a bit more than just basic knowledge to be able to do something like that.

Have fun with the conversion.
Report more about the sound if you can.
I would be interested.

Currently I've only changed a little after the conversion to Vcaps, a Zmf Auteur was added, the previous version still.
And on recommendation I was allowed to test the EL38s, which I am very pleased with.

It was also the first time that I used non-registered tubes in my Euforia amp.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> @mordy, that's an interesting thing you're doing.
> It would be too hot for me personally and it probably takes a bit more than just basic knowledge to be able to do something like that.
> 
> Have fun with the conversion.
> ...


@Deleeh how would describe the EL38 in contrast to standard tubes?


----------



## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> @Deleeh how would describe the EL38 in contrast to standard tubes?



I can't say that 100%.
Because I also replaced the Mundorf caps with the Vcap.
And they also make a bit of a difference.
That's why the statement only applies in connection with the Vcaps and compared to the standard caps it can deviate somewhat.

Together with the Auteur and the EL38
Great crisp bass response, nice soft, deep, almost tangible mids, with a nice soft bass.
And a bit of analogue sound for good measure.
Tames the Auteur a bit in the midrange, but not so extreme that it wouldn't be fun, seems a bit tidier and less sharp.

Surprised me very well I must say.


----------



## mordy

Deleeh said:


> @mordy, that's an interesting thing you're doing.
> It would be too hot for me personally and it probably takes a bit more than just basic knowledge to be able to do something like that.
> 
> Have fun with the conversion.
> ...


I really don't have any basic knowledge of electronics and that big adapter was made by Mrs Xuling for the Elise/Euforia and it just plugs in. The idea was that you could use power tubes that draw more current than the amp is rated for by using an external power supply. In my case I am using 6 tubes that draw a total of 5.4A and the drivers use together 0.6A for a sum total of 6A which is well under the 7A max for the Euforia. But the adapter is wired for external power so I have to use that. (It is possible that Mrs Xuling still some adapters left for sale.) When the idea of this adapter came up there was a discussion if you need some electronics that each tube is going to get the same amount of current but that is beyond my knowledge and I don't think anything was done for this purpose. Basically the adapter is a one piece adapter with two sockets that each serve three tubes. 
A lot of people feel that two 6J5 family triodes sound better than one 6SN7 dual triode. The Elise/Euforia could use just one triode in each channel as drivers but was designed to use two 6SN7 tubes wired in parallel (lower noise floor?). Using 6N7 to 6SN7 adapters it is possible to use the 6J5 family triodes as drivers.
Every amp is designed differenty and how the same tubes are going to sound depends on how the amp was designed and the combinations with other tubes. Of the tubes I tried so far (Sylvania, Raytheon, RCA, Tung Sol) the best sound in the Euforia comes from a pair of National Union 6J5GT tubes with the getter flash on top (there are NU 6J5GT tubes with clear tops but I haven't tried them).
I also tried a pair of National Union 6J5G ST type tubes but in the Euforia the NU GT tubes sound better; in my GOTL with the same power tubes the NU G ST tubes sound better. 
How does the Euforia sound? Everything is right with very good bass and detail with a special overall sweetness to the sound. ATM I don't want to change anything - just leave it as it is and enjoy listening...


----------



## Rayon

I just got my Euforia AE and been listening it for few days now with MDR-Z1R as headphones and Hugo 2 as a dac and I really like this amp. Also tried is as a pre for Phonitor e which was also nice. Can't wait to hear it with Utopia (it should arrive today or tomorrow) 

I started thinking: it would be nice to gather a list of compatible tubes that are still being manufactured. I'd like to start experimenting with those tubes first as I kind of wouldn't want to fall in love with something I can't attain in the future anymore.

I  understood that the stock driver tubes (PsVane) of AE are being manufactured and do have a future and luckily I do like the stock sound already. A bit expensive though, but some 200$ every few years isn't that much in this hobby luckily as long as it's somewhat guaranteed 200$ (not suddenly double or quadruple that in today's $, ie. excluding the effect of inflation).

As a side note: I do hope that we will start seeing more companies like PsVane, creating nice sounding tubes and competing with each other. Having a "Topping" of nice sounding tubes would be something I could live with.


----------



## Deleeh

Rayon said:


> I just got my Euforia AE and been listening it for few days now with MDR-Z1R as headphones and Hugo 2 as a dac and I really like this amp. Also tried is as a pre for Phonitor e which was also nice. Can't wait to hear it with Utopia (it should arrive today or tomorrow)
> 
> I started thinking: it would be nice to gather a list of compatible tubes that are still being manufactured. I'd like to start experimenting with those tubes first as I kind of wouldn't want to fall in love with something I can't attain in the future anymore.
> 
> ...


Hello,
And congratulations on the Euforia AE.

Unfortunately, you have been a bit misinformed.
I don't know who said that, but Ps Vane is no longer available and the tubes are no longer manufactured.
So even Feliks has to find something new at some point.
All you can find are remnants of the Ps Vane tubes.

The price is still good if you like the tube.
As new 6sn7 production there is only what you can find,Tung sol,Elektro Hamonics,Tad are cheap but not necessarily good tubes.
Linlai again goes more in the direction of premium, which is not bad as a tube.
It is still worthwhile to rattle off the Nos market.

The 6AS7G tube is a little trickier.
The Svetlana is not wrong but masks quite a lot in the music.
You will notice this very quickly once you have tried a few 6080 tubes.
Like the Mullard or 6080 Gec.
But the 6080s are also no longer being produced and are becoming less and less expensive.
The Svetlana are still quite cheap as well as the RCA but they are nothing special.
7236 5998 are also great tubes that are no longer available as new production only as Nos and have become more expensive due to demand and rarity.
Especially the tubes that are supposed to feed the 6AS7G socket will not get better in the next 5 years unfortunately.
Unless there are manufacturers who are willing to produce something.

The other possibility would be to use adapters that can be unassembled to enable the use of other tubes from another tube family.
For that you would have to go back a few pages in this thread to find out more.

Unfortunately, I personally have not found or seen anything from Feliks where the circuit of the amplifier can be kept with a possibility to modify it to use other tube families.
This ensures a stable way that the amplifier does not suffer.
The possibility would probably be there to adapt the circuit to new sockets and possibly a new transformer to convert against a surcharge that one could use other tubes such as KT 88, El34 ect.
Where a certain stability is guaranteed.


----------



## mordy

Rayon said:


> I just got my Euforia AE and been listening it for few days now with MDR-Z1R as headphones and Hugo 2 as a dac and I really like this amp. Also tried is as a pre for Phonitor e which was also nice. Can't wait to hear it with Utopia (it should arrive today or tomorrow)
> 
> I started thinking: it would be nice to gather a list of compatible tubes that are still being manufactured. I'd like to start experimenting with those tubes first as I kind of wouldn't want to fall in love with something I can't attain in the future anymore.
> 
> ...


The problem of tube availability is different for a manufacturer than a tube amp owner. The manufacturer needs a large reliable supply of tubes for producing amps and therefore usually has to go to current production or old production that is available in large quantities.
You, as a tube amp owner, only need a couple of tubes of the various kinds. Vacuum tubes were produced in the millions over time, and if you are patient you will be able to find old NOS tubes to suit your taste. Unfortunately the prices have been going up, but if you educate yourself what to look for and get familiar with rebranded names, there are still bargains to be found.
But you need patience…


----------



## Rayon

connieflyer said:


> HI Mordy, the adapters are available here.     https://www.ebay.com/itm/193142155772?ViewItem=&item=193142155772
> I have tried the 7581a's and the KT66 quad, KT66 and KT88 and now the quad of KT88, and of them all the quad of KT88 is by far and away the best I have heard in Euforia.  I bought the KT66 and 88 from Upscale Audio, the US distributor for Feliks Audio.  Prices are a little, a few dollars more than other places, but they offer tube matching and for power tubes, the KT88's for about 3 dollars a 72 hour burn in. Well worth it in my opinion, great service and no problems at all.  I corresponded with Kevin and he is very prompt with replies and info.   https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/power-tubes/products/gold-lion-kt88
> This is my opinion with my equipment.  Others hold other conclusions.


So do I get this right: these same adapters fit to both the driver and the power sockets? Ie if I order 4 from both of your links(4 adapters and 4 tubes), I'm good to go?


----------



## Rayon

mordy said:


> Getting a bit old to climb mountains - seriously, was hoping for a one time, final, expense. I have no problem experimenting with $2 tubes, but $60 tubes makes me think more than twice, especially since you need 4 of them and 4 adapters as well.


But does one always need new adapters? Can't one reuse the same adapters?


----------



## mordy

Rayon said:


> But does one always need new adapters? Can't one reuse the same adapters?


Of course you can reuse adapters, but different tubes need different adapters in many cases, and I don’t enjoy the expense every time I want to try a new tube with a different pin out that is not compatible with the adapters I have.
Sometimes the tubes fit without adapters but usually it is not the case.


----------



## Rayon

mordy said:


> Of course you can reuse adapters, but different tubes need different adapters in many cases, and I don’t enjoy the expense every time I want to try a new tube with a different pin out that is not compatible with the adapters I have.
> Sometimes the tubes fit without adapters but usually it is not the case.


Yeah ok, so the 13k adapters don't all fit the adapters of KT88.


----------



## bluenight

How is
FELIKS AUDIO EUFORIA 20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION
With HD800S? How's the synergy? Compared to other tube amps? 

Or Woo audio WA2 or WA22

Feel free to name drop tubeamp recommendations. 

Bought the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos SS amp and it does not pair well imo. To bright and lacks bass imo.


----------



## BrainSalat (Jul 7, 2022)

bluenight said:


> Bought the Ferrum Oor + Hypsos SS amp and it does not pair well imo. To bright and lacks bass imo.


I don't have the HD800S, so others here can better tell how good it pairs with the Euforia, however I think your problem with the Ferrum setup is not the amp, but the headphone itself. The HD800s is really lacking in the bass department and they have a peak at 5.6KHz.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd800s-review-headphone.18424/

You can fix those with a parametric equalizer (PEQ), like the one built-in on Roon or with the MathAudio Headphone EQ plugin for foobar (....there are more alternatives). You can get the PEQ parameters from the AutoEq project database:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/29ba7f82f0e2ef20c79aa33c39c946ef87e861f1/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 800 S

That should improve your results with your Ferrum amp.


----------



## bluenight

BrainSalat said:


> I don't have the HD800S, so others here can better tell how good it pairs with the Euforia, however I think your problem with the Ferrum setup is not the amp, but the headphone itself. The HD800s is really lacking in the bass department and they have a peak at 5.6KHz.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd800s-review-headphone.18424/
> 
> ...


I dont use an computer. So i guess there no way for me to EQ. Lake People RS 02 had more bass with my HD800S.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

bluenight said:


> I dont use an computer. So i guess there no way for me to EQ. Lake People RS 02 had more bass with my HD800S.


I'm pretty sure you can still PEQ without a PC - Your Cambridge Audio CXN V2 can use Roon, which can do PEQ within it, I believe.  Not sure if they still make/sell standalone PEQ's, but you could also get one of those (or maybe a Raspberry Pi) and put it inline and do some EQ'ing from there.

Just my $.02 worth.


----------



## Rayon

This was probably my shortest headphone related purchase every, but my Euforia is already on sale: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/feliks-audio-euforia-25h-anniversary-edition.28840/

Euforia pushed me to new frontiers and I had to go to listen Dave once more and I connected with it in a way that almost felt religious. I understood the value of "nothing is wrong" even though it didn't impress me. I saw getting impressed as a passing phenomenon and that after Euforia my limits for getting impressed had risen to such an absurd levels that it wouldn't make sense to run after that anymore and the best solution at this point is a setup in which irritation is minimal. That setup is Dave.


----------



## Deleeh

bluenight said:


> How is
> FELIKS AUDIO EUFORIA 20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION
> With HD800S? How's the synergy? Compared to other tube amps?
> 
> ...



Hello,

Let me get this straight.
The Euforia does not have a tight, thick and lush bass like other amplifiers because of its tuning, which is kept relatively neutral.

Especially with the standard tubes in combination with the Hd 800, the bass will be very bloodless in this respect, just like with the Lcd 2 C.

With the LCD 2C, a tube change helped a lot with the HD 800, but I can't speak to how it behaves.

As a rule of thumb, however, you can say that the Euforia can take back the bass even with headphones with strong bass.
This can sometimes be good, sometimes not so good.
In summary, however, the Euforia in combination with the Hd800 will probably be very thin in the bass range, have a great midrange with an extremely extended treble range.

Some like it, some don't.
It's a matter of taste and also a bit on the type of music you listen to pro and con.
For classical orchestra, the Hd is certainly the best, but for other genres of music, a Zmf Aeolus,Auteur,Atrium,Emu Teak,Fostex Th900,Focal palette and a few other headphones will be much better.

I would change the stock tubes now if you haven't changed tubes yet.
If that doesn't suit you, I think you should change to a different headphone.


----------



## elrey

Henrim said:


> I should mention, for my tastes the Atrium and Euforia's tuning are an excellent match. The Atrium's are 'ZMF neutral', and the Euforia is pretty neutral too, so there's room to brighten or warm up the sound to taste. Enjoyed using the thompson 6080, LinLai 6SN7, Sylvania VT-231, stock tubes and more.


Have you had the chance to compare the Atrium with other headphones? I would like to try them at some point.


----------



## elrey

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> This is just an example of what it should look like.
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/141164611004
> 
> ...


I second that. Hart Audio is really good, but for my Euforia AE and HD800, I use a Plusound. Christian from Plusound made a custom X8, and the difference over the OEM cable was impressive. I also use an X8 "extension" to avoid plugging and unplugging my HD800 into the Euforia.


----------



## Jeweltopia (Jul 11, 2022)

Just wanted to post a tidbit here that isn't meant to offend, annoy, or ruffle any feathers.

Euforia was my dream amp for many years. I finally purchased it last year and I liked it. I did copious amounts of tube rolling on it, utilizing many NOS tubes, as well as many new production models as well.

Thus, I had lots of 6SN7 / 6AS7 (6080) tubes laying around, including many multiples of each which were just about identical to one another. On a whim, I decided to purchase the xDuoo TA-26 a few months ago for $300 or so off Amazon. They're both OTLs, and like the Euforia, it used the same exact tube types. I owned both extensively for months, swapped back and forth every so often, got many people to do listening and swapping tests with me (dragged the spouse, friends, and my parents into my shenanigans) and whatnot.

And the conclusion that we all came to... is that they sound almost identical. Euforia has a slight edge by about 10% in the sense that it just does everything across the board ever so slightly better. Mind you, I do mean ever so slightly. Luckily, I had multiples of three different 6SN7s, so was able to A/B directly comparing to the amps rolled identically. I also had multiples of several identical 6AS7s which allowed me to roll both tube types identically in both amps.

They are extremely similar. Like I said, Euforia has an edge by about 10% or so. If I knew how to mod, I'd mess with the caps and resistors in my xDuoo, seeing if I could squeeze that extra bit of performance out of it that Euforia has. I have friends who can do such mods, and I'm thinking of picking up another TA-26 for $300 bucks and seeing if they can just put in $50-$100 (at best) worth of upgrades inside to give it that extra bit that the Euforia had.

Anyway, I sold the Euforia, and I was worried that I'd miss it, but when I listen to my TA-26, it honestly sounds so similar to it that I'm not super bothered. Yeah, I'm aware that Euforia had slightly better performance, but one was $300 and the other was $2,700 and I'm not convinced that a handful of internal mods to the TA-26 won't bring it up a notch. I plan to try that theory out very soon.

I know current Euforia owners might scoff at this, and if you're perfectly content, then I'm glad. This post is mostly for people who have never heard one and are on the fence on whether or not they want a Euforia. It won't do headphones with as low of an impedance as the Euforia does, but if anyone is curious about what a Euforia sounds like, I highly recommend the xDuoo TA-26. They sound very similar. And from there, if you like it so much that you want a marginal gain in performance, that just ever so slightly elevates it in all regards, then contemplate dropping $2,700 on a new one or slightly less for a used one. But in my case, even though I could have afforded to keep the Euforia, and didn't need the money I'd gain by selling it (and taking a rather big loss on selling it too), I just struggled to keep both when they were that close in performance and one was $300 and the other was $2,700. I know people will say that my cheaper one is Chifi and the Euforia will likely outlast it. Luckily, if that happens, I could literally buy nine TA-26 amps for the price of one brand new Euforia, so I'm not too fussed. It's also a lot smaller and easier to ship, and I know plenty of people who know how to repair amps, so I don't mind having it looked at if issues arise in the future.

The Euforia and TA-26 are EXTREMELY similar in the bass, mids, treble, etc. depending on your tube choices. I would say the Euforia (I had the non AE version) is a bit more neutral while the TA-26 is tilted a bit more warm, but other than that, they're very similar. Euforia has slightly more resolution, clarity, soundstage, etc., but it was a marginal difference. For anyone on the fence, I highly recommend trying the $300 xDuoo TA-26 first and then deciding if you want to drop thousands on the Euforia, which does perform slightly better (plus is capable of driving lower impedance headphones) and returning it if it ends up not being your cup of tea at all. Because trust me, I lusted after the Euforia for years, and felt extremely deflated when I ran into a $300 amp that used the same two tube types and got so close to its performance that there were times my spouse, friends, and parents could barely tell them apart when I dragged them into listening sessions over the past few months. That's why I decided to sell the Euforia. I still like how it sounds, obviously, but I weighed the pros / cons of keeping it, and just decided that it was too expensive as far as the cost to performance ratio is concerned.

That's just my two cents. If it helps anyone, that's all that matters. It isn't meant to offend or come off insulting in any way. This is just my experience, and the experience of those I know, and these are the conclusions that were reached after many months of ownership and usage.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I think it was a mistake to give up the Euforia.
Apart from the quality aspect, it is simply so much more.
In addition to tube rolling with an adapter, the capacitors can also be replaced on the Euforia.
From experience, I can say that this is also worthwhile.
The Mundorf capacitors are not the best but the most neutral you can get.
Everything else is really a matter of taste.
The Vcaps TFTF or CUTF on the 6sn7 alone would have made a big difference, but the Euforia plays more refined with the Vcaps Odam.
So I have no regrets.

I also put it up against my custom hybrid amp.
It was very close to the Euforia in the original, but after the conversion it was no longer close, as the Euforia amp was further away.
Even in its original state, the Euforia always played a little better than my hybrid amplifier.
That's why I can understand the Ta26 a little.

Whether you can take it as a measure is questionable.
The Ta 26 will not be as high quality as the Euforia in that respect.
There is a lot of electrolytic capacitors in the capacitors that dry out at some point.
Apart from that, if you really want to tune, you also have to improve the power supply.
There is a lot of cheap stuff in there.
The best ones are actually the Audio Note, but unfortunately they are only available in limited areas.
Everything else would be standard like Nichicon FG Kz ect...So nothing that would be exceptional.
And you get more of the SS sound instead of the tube sound.

Experts also say that the Ta26 is like the Darkvoice and that the Darkvoice is qualitatively better despite its weaknesses.
Allegedly, both come from the same chain of stores in China, where topping, smsl etc. are also found.

In my opinion, the best tube amplifiers on the market are still made in the USA and Europe.
There are hardly any from Asia that could hold their own here.


----------



## SlothRock

Jeweltopia said:


> Just wanted to post a tidbit here that isn't meant to offend, annoy, or ruffle any feathers.
> 
> Euforia was my dream amp for many years. I finally purchased it last year and I liked it. I did copious amounts of tube rolling on it, utilizing many NOS tubes, as well as many new production models as well.
> 
> ...



If you can’t hear a difference and everything is just as dead quiet and fine to your ears then you gotta go with your gut! We will miss you on team Euforia but glad you’re loving the Xduoo . After all, we’re all just here to enjoy the awesomeness of music in the way that suits us best


----------



## Simple Man

bluenight said:


> How is
> FELIKS AUDIO EUFORIA 20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION
> With HD800S? How's the synergy? Compared to other tube amps?
> 
> ...


I do love them as a pair but also with other gear. I use the standard tubes and the standard headphone wire too. 
For me this is my end combo. Sometimes I listen with a Audeze XC which works fine to but I prefer the 800s


----------



## Henrim (Jul 14, 2022)

elrey said:


> Have you had the chance to compare the Atrium with other headphones? I would like to try them at some point.


Compared them to the Utopia and he1000v2, but they're very very different sounds so it feels odd to write about it. In summary, the Utopia and he1000v2 are technical marvels and will shock you with the detail and seperation, while the Atrium will seduce you and you'll feel like you're returning home.



Jeweltopia said:


> Just wanted to post a tidbit here that isn't meant to offend, annoy, or ruffle any feathers.
> 
> Euforia was my dream amp for many years. I finally purchased it last year and I liked it. I did copious amounts of tube rolling on it, utilizing many NOS tubes, as well as many new production models as well.
> 
> ...



Just monoblock 2 xDuoo's, upgrade all the parts and build quality and bam, you've got a Euforia!

edit: I think some of the benefits the Euforia has is

 low noise floor, I don't hear any hum on any of my headphones with the recommended tube types. 
 for an OTL it can drive low impedence loads, so it's compatible with a larger pool of headphones compared to cheaper OTLs
Another point is I think we all have to come to terms with how big / small the differences are that we pay good money for. I once remember not being able to tell a difference between my $500 Audio-gd and the Chord TT2. Now I'm beginning to notice and value things that I never did before.


----------



## tinariwen

I’m curious if anyone can hear a really faint hum from the unit itself?

I’ve got the AE version. I can’t hear it through my headphones, in case you’re wondering.

Any ideas?


----------



## elrey

I have a quick question regarding the Euforia (AE). I have had mine for about 1.5 years, and I got the focal stellia this week. I usually use the HD800, but in the middle of the burn-in for the stellia I connected them to the Euforia, and I noticed a "hum" on the right channel. After troubleshooting, I noticed that one of the power tubes (R) had gone microphonic. 
Is it possible that one of the 6H13C is/becomes microphonic with one headphone and not another?
I am guessing that the difference in impedance between the HD800 and Stellia has something to do


----------



## elrey

tinariwen said:


> I’m curious if anyone can hear a really faint hum from the unit itself?
> 
> I’ve got the AE version. I can’t hear it through my headphones, in case you’re wondering.
> 
> Any ideas?


Hello mine is quiet, check for dirty power maybe?


----------



## SlothRock

elrey said:


> I have a quick question regarding the Euforia (AE). I have had mine for about 1.5 years, and I got the focal stellia this week. I usually use the HD800, but in the middle of the burn-in for the stellia I connected them to the Euforia, and I noticed a "hum" on the right channel. After troubleshooting, I noticed that one of the power tubes (R) had gone microphonic.
> Is it possible that one of the 6H13C is/becomes microphonic with one headphone and not another?
> I am guessing that the difference in impedance between the HD800 and Stellia has something to do



I had this happen. Seems that open backs diffuse the sound of a microphonic tube better so you don’t hear it as much or at all. Had the exact thing happen with a tube and I could hear it a LOT on my VC’s but not on my open backs or it was barely present on the open backs.


----------



## elrey

SlothRock said:


> I had this happen. Seems that open backs diffuse the sound of a microphonic tube better so you don’t hear it as much or at all. Had the exact thing happen with a tube and I could hear it a LOT on my VC’s but not on my open backs or it was barely present on the open backs.


I am mostly frustrated because the tubes lasted less than two years, which is not even close to their supposed lifespan. I tested the tubes, and the measurements are great, which of course, has no relation to the microphony of the tube. I need a device like the one here to connect it to an oscilloscope.



Spoiler: Chart


----------



## Deleeh

The Russian Svetlana hardly costs anything in exchange. 60$ maximum for the couple if they liked it.
Otherwise, look around for 6080 tubes and experience the strengths of the Euforia.
Apart from that, the Svetlana was never good on the Euforia, if only with certain headphones.
And it is by far the cheapest tube.

As a rule, it masks relatively much in the detail reproduction together with the Ps vane.
It may be okay with high priced headphones, but not if you use something like a Hd 600 etc.

The Svetlana is okay on the whole but you have to get things right under the base to make it work.
Without going into detail, then it is relatively good and also okay for the money.

As for the hum, many have already bought Nos tubes where hum.
Most of the time it is not so disturbing during playback.
If it is during playback then it is more of a problem then the tube usually has something like a lack of gas, solder etc....


----------



## elrey

Which 6080 that I can find in stores such as tubedepot can you recommend me? I was also thinking into jump to the KT88 as power tubes. I read that a while ago in this tread.


----------



## LoryWiv

elrey said:


> Which 6080 that I can find in stores such as tubedepot can you recommend me? I was also thinking into jump to the KT88 as power tubes. I read that a while ago in this tread.


I've tried various new production tubes and the only one I kept is Genalex Gold Lion KT88, really a very fine tube and worked great in my Elise with adapters.


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## Deleeh

Depends on what you are willing to spend?
What headphones do you use to listen to the Euforia?


----------



## elrey

LoryWiv said:


> I've tried various new production tubes and the only one I kept is Genalex Gold Lion KT88, really a very fine tube and worked great in my Elise  with adapters.


I have the adapters, I never got to try any KT88


Deleeh said:


> Depends on what you are willing to spend?
> What headphones do you use to listen to the Euforia?


I use mostly the HD800S and, recently, the Stellia. Regarding how much I am willing to spend... that is a thought question because I hate thinking "what if," especially given the variability in the cost of tubes. I checked the KT88 Genalex Gold Lion, and for about $200, the pair from a reputable store is doable for me. I am most against trying cheap tubes, performance-wise, given the entry cost of the Euforia. For me is like having a TOL turntable and then using a $20 cartridge.


----------



## Deleeh

Okay, I don't know the 2 headphones respectively have never heard them.
I would rather buy something if you can tell what you are missing or what you are aiming for.
I think so can recommend something you are looking for instead of something wrong.
@Renexx might have some good recommendations for tubes.

But as a note, even cheap tubes can perform that doesn't mean anything.
They used to be all tubes where you paid 5-10$ for them.
The only people who made them expensive are the people who sell them.

As a rough example the General Electric 6080 is more forward sounding, great bass and overall a bit slow and analogue for 50-70$ is not bad.
Better is always possible of course


----------



## elrey

Deleeh said:


> Okay, I don't know the 2 headphones respectively have never heard them.
> I would rather buy something if you can tell what you are missing or what you are aiming for.
> I think so can recommend something you are looking for instead of something wrong.
> @Renexx might have some good recommendations for tubes.
> ...


Thanks for the advice. That points me in the right direction.


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## LoryWiv (Jul 19, 2022)

Really enjoying the Euforia AE, a clear step forward from my beloved Elise. Happily, I have many tubes from Elise which are a great pleasure to use in Euforia. Here are  Siemens EL11 drivers with Ken-Rad 6Y6G powers, using adapters from @Deyan of course:


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## elrey

Hello all. I have a question. Does anyone uses (or have tried) the Chord Hugo TT2 as DAC with the Euforia (AE)? I want to try an FPGA DAC, and it appears that Chord measures better than the PS Audio DirectStream.


----------



## BrainSalat (Jul 19, 2022)

elrey said:


> Hello all. I have a question. Does anyone uses (or have tried) the Chord Hugo TT2 as DAC with the Euforia (AE)? I want to try an FPGA DAC, and it appears that Chord measures better than the PS Audio DirectStream.



I have tried it and it really makes sing the Euforia AE.
Bigger soundstage, better layering and better resolver than my RME ADI-2 PRO AE.
It has a built-in headphone amplifier that is quite good but I prefer it out of the Euforia AE.

However around the same time I also audited the HoloAudio Spring3 KTE, a R2R DAC and I preferred this over the TT2 (I had both for a week).
The Spring3 shares around the same qualities as the TT2 but it sounds more analog (more realistic) and native DSD support is the best I have ever experienced.

The TT2 is brighter than the Spring3.

Both DACs sound amazing with the Euforia, a full class over my ADI2 PRO.
To be honest I was initially skeptical than any DAC would beat my ADI-2 PRO and if so I thought it would be so minimal that I would not able to tell the difference, but I was literally blown away with the performance of both DACs. I have to thank @Renexx for showing me that my DAC was holding my system back. I wish I could have audited his Rockna Wavelight (also a R2R DAC) as well.

I will get my Spring3 KTE (+preamp module) in a few weeks.


----------



## Rayon

@Sajid Amit I noticed that you have both Euforia AE and Holo May. Have you tried connecting Euforia directly to May's RCA output? The reason I'm asking is that I have May incoming and it has 2.9Vrms output for RCA and Euforia's max input voltage is 1.8Vrms. They commented to me from Feliks that it should be ok, but I'm still nervous as I don't understand how this all works and what are the actual consequences.


----------



## BrainSalat (Jul 22, 2022)

Rayon said:


> @Sajid Amit I noticed that you have both Euforia AE and Holo May. Have you tried connecting Euforia directly to May's RCA output? The reason I'm asking is that I have May incoming and it has 2.9Vrms output for RCA and Euforia's max input voltage is 1.8Vrms. They commented to me from Feliks that it should be ok, but I'm still nervous as I don't understand how this all works and what are the actual consequences.



I had here the HoloAudio Spring3 KT3, without preamp module (they sent me the wrong version. The preamp version is on the way), which has the same output level as the May and "it works" with the Euforia. @SlothRock owns the same DAC.

I quoted "it works" because specially with the Utopias (more sensitive) the output was too high and I could only use the first 3 volume marks of the Euforia (out of 21) which I can image is not the most optimal operating point. As work around you could use the digital volume to reduce the output (Foobar volume for example), but that is really a bad idea since you will be compromising your dynamic range. In the case of @SlothRock the problem was not so severe as with the Utopias, because his headphones (ZMF) are less sensitive which allow him a bigger volume range. But in the general case a preamp is recommended (this way the dynamic range is not compromised) and the one built-in on the Spring3 is quite good. Too bad that for the May that option is not available.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Rayon said:


> @Sajid Amit I noticed that you have both Euforia AE and Holo May. Have you tried connecting Euforia directly to May's RCA output? The reason I'm asking is that I have May incoming and it has 2.9Vrms output for RCA and Euforia's max input voltage is 1.8Vrms. They commented to me from Feliks that it should be ok, but I'm still nervous as I don't understand how this all works and what are the actual consequences.


Yup. I do it all the time. Works beautifully.


----------



## Rayon

Thanks to both of you. I'll try direct then first and see if I like the sound as is. Main target is Utopia for me as well.


----------



## incredulousity

Rayon said:


> @Sajid Amit I noticed that you have both Euforia AE and Holo May. Have you tried connecting Euforia directly to May's RCA output? The reason I'm asking is that I have May incoming and it has 2.9Vrms output for RCA and Euforia's max input voltage is 1.8Vrms. They commented to me from Feliks that it should be ok, but I'm still nervous as I don't understand how this all works and what are the actual consequences.


I also have Euphoria AE and May. It works perfectly off the RCA output of May.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Can those who have the Spring 3 give some impressions of how it sounds on the Euforia?

I personally hear good but also not so good at the price tag.
And always the question with or without preamp.

I had already thought about the Spring 3 rather than Lv2 should I take one.


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 23, 2022)

I have Spring 3 KTE with Preamp, as well as May KTE. I’ve used both with Euforia AE, and they sound outstanding. The difference between the two DACs is detectable, but not huge. If the money is a factor, get Spring and be happy. I did not find it necessary to turn down the volume below 94, which is the equivalent of using it without pre-amp. Works fine at full power too.

With Stuff at this level, to maximize your sound quality, you have to have clean power and better than Walmart cables/interconnects.

Spring and May are the most significant upgrade to my systems to date. Surprisingly large step up from the RMEs they replaced.


----------



## SlothRock

I also am using the Spring 3 KTE (non preamp version) with my Euforia and I absolutely love it. Agreed with the above poster about it being an absolutely significant upgrade over the Bifrost 2 that I originally had. 

I did notice via Windows that the line was getting clipped (nothing audible) so I’m currently using Equalizer APO to lower the global volume by just a few db and that isn’t showing up at all anymore. You can’t go wrong with this pairing


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Thanks for the great impressions 🙏.

Hmm, yes, with the preamplifier I also thought that I would just lower the overall volume on the PC and the clipping should be gone.
I don't want to have much to do with Apo, I've tried that a few times and didn't really get on with it.
That's why it's a big red dotted circle 😁.

Do you think you can put aside the criticism about the spring on the Euforia and just adjust the rest with the tubes?
Have I understood that correctly?

The only question left is KTE version or Lv2 Spring?
I think the KTE might be too much because I changed the capacitors on the Euforia.
Should I decide on the Spring after all or get my hands on it as a test project.
By too much I mean colouring, smoothness etc..
That's why I'm thinking about the Lv2 version because it was still kept "normal".

I have no doubts that it is an upgrade compared to the Delta sigmas, I still use one myself 🫣.


----------



## alekc

I had a pleasure to listen to Euforia AE for a short period of time yesterday. Lumin D2 has been used as a dac (all tracks were from Tidal), and unfortunately I had only time for testing Focal Clears MG while also there were Meze Elite available for testing to name a few other headphones.

Here are my brief impressions with Lumin D2 and Focal Clear MGs:

The bass and sound control are great.
I haven’t felt any microdetails were lost. It is very detailed amp.
The sound was not as soft and warm as I would expect (but this could be due to Lumin sound signature, I really need to test Euforia with Rockna WaveLight and Hugo TT2).
It excels with classical music, not much with rock or grunge.
I suspect it may sound better with some easier to drive planars than with dynamic cans like Clears.
Great volume pot. I haven’t noticed any channel imbalance or other issues. However I only set it up once, adjusted one more time for testing and never touched it again. I liked the feeling of the know when turning it, you can’t change volume accidentally and you have a feeling of very good control of volume level.
I wonder if my opinion and findings is different from yours? One important thing to mention is that those were new tubes below 150 hours of operation.

Here is my playlist if anyone is interested:


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 29, 2022)

An era ends. Sold my Euforia AE and shipped it out today. Many happy memories, and on to the next phase!

Getting Envy, and soon to sell HA-2SF as well, once I’m sure it’s a keeper. Downsizing. Sort of.


----------



## cspersel

amele said:


> EUFORIA only has rca input can we get some kind of converter to be able to use XLR connection on DAC


I also have the Euforia (20th Anniversary Edition) and solved this issue (brilliantly) with the Decware ZBit XLR to RCA converter box. It uses a Jensen transformer so isn't cheap ($800) but was one of the best audio decisions I've ever made and baffles me why this topic (and gear) is not mentioned more often. Ampsandsound also makes the equivalent converter for the same price. I own both .. one for my speaker system and the other for headphone system ... and at this point there are no noticeable differences between the two converters. Both high-end, high-quality products. I don't hesitate to recommend for anyone going from a DAC balanced output to single ended preamp/amp input.


----------



## Deleeh

Why such an expensive solution when there are XLR to RCA cables?


----------



## incredulousity (Jul 30, 2022)

Cardas makes $120-150 XLR to RCA plugs. They work fine on Euforia. I have used them on Euforia, without difficulty. When doing this, be aware that clipping may be more likely, as voltage of XLR outputs are usually higher than RCA on the same device.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...vN20oqH5AhXqLEQIHfQ2ADUQwg8oAHoECAEQEA&adurl=


----------



## tinariwen

Hey guys, is there a tube rolling post/guide/thread for this particular amp? I remember there being an old post (on head-fi, I think) which was like a 6SN7 bible, giving detailed impressions of most popular NOS and new variants of that tube.

I’m hoping there’s something similar for this amp, as I’ve tried searching but it’s difficult to gauge general opinion without reading all 700-odd pages.

I love how neutral the amp sounds with the stock tubes, so if there’s any recommendations to improve on that aspect then feel free to share. I’ve moved away from lush, smooth, rolled off tube amps and now im really enjoying how almost SS this amp is, but with a lot of the benefits a tube amp can bring


----------



## incredulousity

Between this and the Elise threads, there are years and dozens of users’ tube rolling experiences, along with the interactions and contributions of some very experienced and great head-fi’ers. Putting in the time to get through the threads will yield much about what can be done with these very versatile amps.


----------



## Galapac

Deleted.


----------



## toddc2

tinariwen said:


> Hey guys, is there a tube rolling post/guide/thread for this particular amp? I remember there being an old post (on head-fi, I think) which was like a 6SN7 bible, giving detailed impressions of most popular NOS and new variants of that tube.
> 
> I’m hoping there’s something similar for this amp, as I’ve tried searching but it’s difficult to gauge general opinion without reading all 700-odd pages.
> 
> I love how neutral the amp sounds with the stock tubes, so if there’s any recommendations to improve on that aspect then feel free to share. I’ve moved away from lush, smooth, rolled off tube amps and now im really enjoying how almost SS this amp is, but with a lot of the benefits a tube amp can bring


1. Start with rolling the power tubes. For something reasonable, try the GEC 6080. For something pricey, many people have landed on the Tung Sol 5998 or WE421A.

2. For the input tubes, there are many reasonably priced 6SN7’s. I would start with Sylvania, either the Chrome tops or the most excellent VT-231’s. Many like the Melz 1578’s from the late 50’s and early 60’s. At a much higher price the TS Black Glass Round Plates are highly regarded.


----------



## tinariwen

toddc2 said:


> 1. Start with rolling the power tubes. For something reasonable, try the GEC 6080. For something pricey, many people have landed on the Tung Sol 5998 or WE421A.
> 
> 2. For the input tubes, there are many reasonably priced 6SN7’s. I would start with Sylvania, either the Chrome tops or the most excellent VT-231’s. Many like the Melz 1578’s from the late 50’s and early 60’s. At a much higher price the TS Black Glass Round Plates are highly regarded.


In what way will the GEC 6080 change the sound compared to stock?

I’m familiar with the 6SN7s and variants you mentioned. They’re all excellent tubes - at one point I had a couple of the Sylvania “Bad Boys”, but they got sold with another amp. I don’t think the sound would suit what I’m after either, as I remember the PSVanes that come as stock to be far more neutral and SS like (which is the sound I’m wanting)


----------



## toddc2

tinariwen said:


> In what way will the GEC 6080 change the sound compared to stock?
> 
> I’m familiar with the 6SN7s and variants you mentioned. They’re all excellent tubes - at one point I had a couple of the Sylvania “Bad Boys”, but they got sold with another amp. I don’t think the sound would suit what I’m after either, as I remember the PSVanes that come as stock to be far more neutral and SS like (which is the sound I’m wanting)


I found the GEC 6080’s opened up the soundstage and provided much better bass than the stock tubes. For the 6SN7’s, my 1988 Melz 1578’s sound very SS-ish. I prefer the warmth of the VT-231’s so to each his own.

 But if you like like stock tubes save yourself some time and a bunch of money and enjoy what you have.


----------



## mordy

tinariwen said:


> In what way will the GEC 6080 change the sound compared to stock?
> 
> I’m familiar with the 6SN7s and variants you mentioned. They’re all excellent tubes - at one point I had a couple of the Sylvania “Bad Boys”, but they got sold with another amp. I don’t think the sound would suit what I’m after either, as I remember the PSVanes that come as stock to be far more neutral and SS like (which is the sound I’m wanting)


If you want SS sound, the Tung Sol 7236 power tubes is the way to go.


----------



## tinariwen

toddc2 said:


> I found the GEC 6080’s opened up the soundstage and provided much better bass than the stock tubes. For the 6SN7’s, my 1988 Melz 1578’s sound very SS-ish. I prefer the warmth of the VT-231’s so to each his own.
> 
> But if you like like stock tubes save yourself some time and a bunch of money and enjoy what you have.


Do the 6080s soften transients or roll off the highs at all? I’ve got another tube amp that has all the typical tube characteristics, and I want to try and keep the Euforia feeling fast and well extended


----------



## Alu

I just wanted to reappear in this thread and confirm again that this amp is delightful as heck with the stock drivers as well - I can't get the same sound with my other drivers (Sylvania VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7WGT x2, Sylvania 6SN7W x2).
Although they're all Sylvs, they all sound WILDLY different.

So don't feel the need to immediately accessorize if you A) are happy and B) have not spend enough time on stock tubes.
Definitely get used to the sound, you might really like it.

I want to try Melzes and some Tung Sols and many many others, but frankly these Psvanes have been super surprising at how much more spacious and smooth they sound after running them for many a month with GEC 6080s as powers (juicy basscannons), which I prefer to even the Tung Sol 5998 (that have been reduced to being a fancy decorative element in my setup? *sigh*).

This all depends on the rest of your chain of course - I really think my OG Yggy A1 (you can probably grab this for much cheaper now) with Lynx AES16e Soundcard helps and while there may be "better" DACs out there I don't want to fiddle with a result that exactly suits my tastes.


----------



## mordy

Alu said:


> I just wanted to reappear in this thread and confirm again that this amp is delightful as heck with the stock drivers as well - I can't get the same sound with my other drivers (Sylvania VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7WGT x2, Sylvania 6SN7W x2).
> Although they're all Sylvs, they all sound WILDLY different.
> 
> So don't feel the need to immediately accessorize if you A) are happy and B) have not spend enough time on stock tubes.
> ...


I tried a lot of power tubes in the Euforia and also came to the conclusion that the GEC 6080 sounded the best.
At this point, however, they have been replaced by multiples of the Melz 6N12S tubes. Unfortunately the Melz tubes are very hard to find at reasonable prices any more.
It is a deep sense of satisfaction to find a tube combination that you are completely satisfied with…
Until…


----------



## Renexx

Alu said:


> I can't get the same sound with my other drivers (Sylvania VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7WGT x2, Sylvania 6SN7W x2).
> Although they're all Sylvs, they all sound WILDLY different.


How does the 6sn7wgt compare to the others ? I don't have them in my collection.



Alu said:


> GEC 6080s as powers (juicy basscannons),


I think the bass is the only region where the GEC 6080 is lacking. It's tight and controlled.
5998 is much more punchy.


----------



## Alu

Renexx said:


> How does the 6sn7wgt compare to the others ? I don't have them in my collection.



I can't tell you how they compare directly to one another as much as I can tell you that I wasn't a huge fan of any of them.        
They're certainly not the most sought after (like the Bad Boys or the W) - I believe they were some of the first ones I had to replace the stock ones, and one of them had a slight hum to it - so that's already a negative experience from the off.
They basically didn't convince me to live with a little hum as a trade-off.
I actually felt like the soundstage closed in on them and given the Utopias more narrow stage that was pretty unacceptable for me.
Perhaps YMMV on headphones like the HD800, which are the big daddys of wideness and that may synergise better.

I got a second pair without humming action and they didn't blow me away like I assumed any NOS driver replacement would - unlike the GEC powers for example, where I really felt a "vast" improvement - warmness, bass and audible instrument separation.
The most apt word I can think of currently to describe the 6SN7WGT is "unexciting".

Then I paid out of my bum for a pair of matched fancy NOS 5998 and those were definitely what I would call slightly "overhyped" on my setup - they're good, don't get me wrong, but I feel like they lack that final touch of warmness that the GECs have.

I owned the ZMF VC until recently (very missed but need money for other frivolities) and I think the 5998s were potentially a better match there but I didn't give it enough time and I don't want to change tubes constantly every time I change headphones.
I almost considered buying a flippin ZMF Pendant JUST for the ZMFs because of that.

Once I come back around to wanting more headphone action I'll have another look at ZMF - because I could live with either, ZMF or Focal to be honest - but I don't want multiple high-end cans hanging around.


----------



## incredulousity

Alu said:


> I can't tell you how they compare directly to one another as much as I can tell you that I wasn't a huge fan of any of them.
> They're certainly not the most sought after (like the Bad Boys or the W) - I believe they were some of the first ones I had to replace the stock ones, and one of them had a slight hum to it - so that's already a negative experience from the off.
> They basically didn't convince me to live with a little hum as a trade-off.
> I actually felt like the soundstage closed in on them and given the Utopias more narrow stage that was pretty unacceptable for me.
> ...


One does not buy 5998s for warmth. They will sound sterile AF on Utopia or Clear Mg, but extremely detailed. If you will, they enhance the "deficiencies" of that kind of tuning. Obviously driver tube choices can mitigate or worsen this. I actually liked to use 5998 in a splitter with KT150 or KT88, with brighter, reference tuned headphones. Great combination for HD800S as well.


----------



## Alu

incredulousity said:


> One does not buy 5998s for warmth. They will sound sterile AF on Utopia or Clear Mg, but extremely detailed. If you will, they enhance the "deficiencies" of that kind of tuning. Obviously driver tube choices can mitigate or worsen this. I actually liked to use 5998 in a splitter with KT150 or KT88, with brighter, reference tuned headphones. Great combination for HD800S as well.


I would say that's an important thing to mention - generally it is assumed that "the best" means "the best for everyone" - I let myself be mislead that way quite often and I never learn.
That's definitely not the case with something as highly subjective as tubes (and headphones of course).

But this is just fluff I wrote not to be off-topic, what I actually wanted to say is: You have a Slayer Espresso machine? Flippin hell.
I only wanted to look at your headphones but that is much more interesting. 
I recently got a Lelit Bianca and I thought *I* went a bit mad there.

Can I also ask which headphones out of the ZMF Verite and the Mezes you prefer on your Euforia? (to bring it back on topic but I really care more about your Espresso setup)


----------



## incredulousity (Aug 4, 2022)

Alu said:


> I would say that's an important thing to mention - generally it is assumed that "the best" means "the best for everyone" - I let myself be mislead that way quite often and I never learn.
> That's definitely not the case with something as highly subjective as tubes (and headphones of course).
> 
> But this is just fluff I wrote not to be off-topic, what I actually wanted to say is: You have a Slayer Espresso machine? Flippin hell.
> ...


Actually the Slayer is for sale. I have a La Marzocco Leva X now. Where did you get my coffee connection? Feel free to talk coffee here by PM, or on other fora, in which you have likely found me. Bianca is a great machine. 

I prefer Meze Elite (and Empy and Liric) on everything, but as an OTL amp, Euforia drives Elite less to its full potential than Verité Open to its.


----------



## Alu

incredulousity said:


> Actually the Slayer is for sale. I have a La Marzocco Leva X now. Where did you get my coffee connection? Feel free to talk coffee here by PM, or on other fora, in which you have likely found me. Bianca is a great machine.
> 
> I prefer Meze Elite (and Empy and Liric) on everything, but as an OTL amp, Euforia drives Elite less to its full potential than Verité Open to its.


Good Lord that's a beast of a machine.

I just usually look at people's profiles in the various threads I'm in to see what headphones/amps/DACs/tubes everyone is using with the respective gear that the thread is about and I make notes of what I potentially would like to try myself.
I saw you had your coffee gear listed there and I JUST got into Espresso making with a Sage Oracle first, which came with a busted grinder (luckily I suppose in hindsight), and then I switched immediately to a Bianca + Niche Zero, which has blown my mind in terms of not just taste but also fun.
Also your grinder I assume is a Monolith Flat Max?

I always have this idea in the back of my head still that I need the Empyrean, which apparently works superbly well with the Euforia - but then I put on my headphones and I realise I'm not missing anything and that would just be overkill that'd eventually end in me selling another headphone at a loss.
Perhaps I can audition one at some point on my own setup.
Verite open is also something to consider now.


----------



## incredulousity

Alu said:


> Good Lord that's a beast of a machine.
> 
> I just usually look at people's profiles in the various threads I'm in to see what headphones/amps/DACs/tubes everyone is using with the respective gear that the thread is about and I make notes of what I potentially would like to try myself.
> I saw you had your coffee gear listed there and I JUST got into Espresso making with a Sage Oracle first, which came with a busted grinder (luckily I suppose in hindsight), and then I switched immediately to a Bianca + Niche Zero, which has blown my mind in terms of not just taste but also fun.
> ...


I have two Kafatek MAX (SLM and SSW burrs) grinders and and MC4 at home Paired with Leva X and CT2. I have another MAX at work (SSP LU burrs), paired with DE1.

I'm holding onto VO and Empy for now, but I may sell the VO, if i find it doesn't trransform to something even more amazing on Envy when it eventually arrives. Empy may go too, but less likely, as that is rumored to be one of the best pairings for stock performance Envy.


----------



## Renexx

I'm trying to use EL12 spez tubes as power tubes for the Euphoria. I got adapters by @Deyan but sadly I received terrible loud hum in both channels with 2 pairs of Telefunken and one pair of Tesla EL12 spez. Seems like their are not compatible.

Somebody had the same experience with EL12 spez tubes?
I'm wondering why it doesn't work. EL11 works perfectly.


----------



## barontan2418

Renexx said:


> I'm trying to use EL12 spez tubes as power tubes for the Euphoria. I got adapters by @Deyan but sadly I received terrible loud hum in both channels with 2 pairs of Telefunken and one pair of Tesla EL12 spez. Seems like their are not compatible.
> 
> Somebody had the same experience with EL12 spez tubes?
> I'm wondering why it doesn't work. EL11 works perfectly.





Renexx said:


> I'm trying to use EL12 spez tubes as power tubes for the Euphoria. I got adapters by @Deyan but sadly I received terrible loud hum in both channels with 2 pairs of Telefunken and one pair of Tesla EL12 spez. Seems like their are not compatible.
> 
> Somebody had the same experience with EL12 spez tubes?
> I'm wondering why it doesn't work. EL11 works perfectly.


Do a search on both Elise and Euforia threads for EL 12 spez tubes. I seem to remember there were a lot of issues with hum. One reason I gave them a miss, although when they did work they appeared to be very good.


----------



## connieflyer

I use the El 12 in both the Elise the Euphoria and the AE and never had a problem. The pair I had that were converted by hypnose one. They were great tubes ran them with the El 11 for drivers in the El 12s for power


----------



## mordy

connieflyer said:


> I use the El 12 in both the Elise the Euphoria and the AE and never had a problem. The pair I had that were converted by hypnose one. They were great tubes ran them with the El 11 for drivers in the El 12s for power


The EL12 Spez has a top anode cap - different from the EL12 that does not have the top anode connection.







Which EL12 are you referring to, or are you referring to both?


----------



## Renexx (Aug 10, 2022)

mordy said:


> The EL12 Spez has a top anode cap - different from the EL12 that does not have the top anode connection.
> 
> 
> Which EL12 are you referring to, or are you referring to both?


I have problems with EL12 spez as power tubes. 
Super loud hum, seems to not be compatible with the amp. I did try several pairs, all had the same problem. @Deyan said they might be self  oscillating. What can be the cause of that ? Are the tubes faulty, the adapters or the Euphoria AE just can't handle them ? Maybe I need to to use EL11 as driver ?

EL11/EL3N is working perfectly as driver tubes for me.


----------



## connieflyer

mordy said:


> The EL12 Spez has a top anode cap - different from the EL12 that does not have the top anode connection.
> 
> 
> Which EL12 are you referring to, or are you referring to both?


Yes Mordy, I have both.  Referring to the top anode


----------



## DecentLevi (Aug 13, 2022)

Renexx said:


> I have problems with EL12 spez as power tubes.
> Super loud hum, seems to not be compatible with the amp. I did try several pairs, all had the same problem. @Deyan said they might be self  oscillating. What can be the cause of that ? Are the tubes faulty, the adapters or the Euphoria AE just can't handle them ? Maybe I need to to use EL11 as driver ?
> 
> EL11/EL3N is working perfectly as driver tubes for me.


A solution has already been found a few years back for this very problem, as we reported either on the Elise or Euforia threads; it was abated simply by putting any ordinary ferrite choke (3-5mm opening recommended) over the exterior wire going to the top cap. At least this worked for me and the others who had this problem, and it worked so well that the buzz instantly dissolved into silence. But first and foremost, make sure you are using the correct adapter specifically for EL12 Spez and that the connection on the top cap is snug.


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## Renexx (Aug 13, 2022)

DecentLevi said:


> A solution has already been found a few years back for this very problem, as we reported either on the Elise or Euforia threads; it was abated simply by putting any ordinary ferrite choke (3-5mm opening recommended) over the exterior wire going to the top cap. At least this worked for me and the others who had this problem, and it worked so well that the buzz instantly dissolved into silence. But first and foremost, make sure you are using the correct adapter specifically for EL12 Spez and that the connection on the top cap is snug.



Absolute silence now. Many thanks.




I had to put 2 chokes....with 1 choke there was some distortion in the bass. Especially with my old  600ohms beyerdynamic headphone but also present on 300ohm ZMF.


----------



## fuhransahis

Lucky new owner of a Euforia AE thanks to an awesome fellow member 

Still in the first few days rolling GEC 2080s and RCA VT231 Smoke Glasses and getting familiar with it but, I'm definitely smitten. Pairs beautifully with the ZMF Atrium.


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## incredulousity (Aug 14, 2022)

You like them better than the PSVane?

Great that the Euforia AE has found such a great home, where it will clearly get the love it deserves! (and evidently some cool tubes)


----------



## fuhransahis

incredulousity said:


> You like them better than the PSVane?


I'm trying that this week, haven't matched the GECs with the PSVanes instead of the RCAs yet but it's coming soon! Has been a busy week or two so I'm looking to make up for lost listening time


----------



## JazzVinyl

fuhransahis said:


> Lucky new owner of a Euforia AE thanks to an awesome fellow member
> 
> Still in the first few days rolling GEC 2080s and RCA VT231 Smoke Glasses and getting familiar with it but, I'm definitely smitten. Pairs beautifully with the ZMF Atrium.



Beautiful!!  Agree,  ZMF cans love, love, love tube amplification!
Congrats!


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## rjones36 (Aug 26, 2022)

Hey folks, I picked up the Feliks Euforia after I had purchased the Feliks Audio Echo MK II and really liked it's performance and dead silent background. The Feliks Euforia was a definite upgrade from the Feliks Audio Echo MK II in terms of soundstage and that euphonic characteristic that I personally was hearing. My source, which also probably helps here is, iFi Zen Stream > Denafrips Pontus II > Feliks Euforia. So while I was enjoying the sound, I was also dealing with some slight humming noise. This was noticeable when using lower impedance headphones. It had been about 2 weeks of me using the Euforia roughly about 6-8 hours a day. I know the tubes needed some 50 hours of burn-in. I figured it was a tube issue and should of gone away, but was still there. Anyway, I decided to swap tubes around just to see if the humming would change. First I swapped the driver tubes and found that the sound I was hearing was in my right ear and this did not change. Then I swapped the power tubes from right to left and the hum moved. I figured at this point it had to be the stock power tube. I had already been looking online for some of the mention tubes here from this forum thread. I ended up picking up some PNJAN 6080WC and replaced the stock tubes. Now... it is dead silent! So... if anyone else is having this issue, and I know a few have said this here on this forum, try replacing them and see if goes away all together.

Next, I am replacing the driver tubes with some VT-231 which should be here this coming Monday. Anyway, just wanted to share my experience in case this might help anyone else.


----------



## rjones36

Alright so been using the Euforia for a bit today with the new 6080 tubes. After a while I started hearing some random static noise. I look around online and there was this suggestion to lightly tap each tube to see if you hear any crackling or noise when doing so. I did try this and the only thing I notice is that I can hear the tapping noise in my right ear cup when tapping on the right power tube. So, move it over to the left side of the amp and then I tapped it again. This time I can hear it in my left ear cup. I am still a bit new to tubes and tube amplifiers, just want to understand or know... am I dealing with a bad power tube in my case here? Looking for some feedback from some of you veterans in this hobby. It would be much appreciated.


----------



## fuhransahis

rjones36 said:


> Alright so been using the Euforia for a bit today with the new 6080 tubes. After a while I started hearing some random static noise. I look around online and there was this suggestion to lightly tap each tube to see if you hear any crackling or noise when doing so. I did try this and the only thing I notice is that I can hear the tapping noise in my right ear cup when tapping on the right power tube. So, move it over to the left side of the amp and then I tapped it again. This time I can hear it in my left ear cup. I am still a bit new to tubes and tube amplifiers, just want to understand or know... am I dealing with a bad power tube in my case here? Looking for some feedback from some of you veterans in this hobby. It would be much appreciated.


I'm not a tube veteran, but it does sound like a bad power tube to me. Should be easy enough to isolate the issue if you swap these power tubes out with another set, maybe stock for example, and see if the static noise disappears.

From what I've seen as well a common solution for some has been to clean the sockets on the amp as well as the pins on the tubes.


----------



## rjones36

fuhransahis said:


> I'm not a tube veteran, but it does sound like a bad power tube to me. Should be easy enough to isolate the issue if you swap these power tubes out with another set, maybe stock for example, and see if the static noise disappears.
> 
> From what I've seen as well a common solution for some has been to clean the sockets on the amp as well as the pins on the tubes.


Yea I may look at cleaning the pins and just to be clear I was not hearing any static noise when tapping on the tubes. I was just hearing the tapping noise in the earcup for only one of the power tubes. No other tube was producing any noise into the headphones I was wearing. I will play more with it in the morning. Appreciate the reply.


----------



## LoryWiv

A little quiet in here, so I'll post a photo of Euforia AE w/Ken-Rad 6F6G's driving Sylvania VT-115A's. I'd been enjoying European tubes for the last few weeks but I am glad I gave the USA manufactured tubes a chance to shine. Running these into my ZMF Auteur Classic produces a nicely balanced, well-staged, crisp and clean yet euphonic sound:


----------



## Henrim

How much did they set you back? Are those adapters?


----------



## LoryWiv

Yes, both tube types require 6V6 to 6AS7 adapters, made by @Deyan. Prices vary but are IME are  generally less than equivalently quality 6AS7 of 6NS7.


----------



## Henrim

Ahh right I think I have them for my KT88 and KT77s. 

I've been entertaining the idea of the Sophia Electric KT88, apparently they sound as sweet as 300B, and I prefer new production as I keep getting unlucky with noisy NOS tubes.


----------



## LoryWiv

Henrim said:


> Ahh right I think I have them for my KT88 and KT77s.
> 
> I've been entertaining the idea of the Sophia Electric KT88, apparently they sound as sweet as 300B, and I prefer new production as I keep getting unlucky with noisy NOS tubes.


The Sophia KT-88 are nice looking, would love to hear your impressions of sound quality in Euforia AE if you go forward with them.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Henrim said:


> Ahh right I think I have them for my KT88 and KT77s.
> 
> I've been entertaining the idea of the Sophia Electric KT88, apparently they sound as sweet as 300B, and I prefer new production as I keep getting unlucky with noisy NOS tubes.


I use the Sophia Electric,  they are certainly nice sounding tubes.
I don't use them in the Euforia nor do I have a 300B to compare side by side tho


----------



## Kamsang

The Euforia AE just arrived to me yesterday. Love the sound signature of it from the begining, I still think it lack a bit of density in sound and some fine detail with the stock tubes.(using with my zmf artium and vc, also try with my CC HD600)
Was decided to play some tube with it buf struggling which I should go for. Any recoomandation of tubes that I can replace and let then sit there forever? (Didnt think of using any adaptors,maybe straight replacement on the 6as7g 421a and cv181 6sn7)
thanks guys


----------



## fuhransahis

Kamsang said:


> The Euforia AE just arrived to me yesterday. Love the sound signature of it from the begining, I still think it lack a bit of density in sound and some fine detail with the stock tubes.(using with my zmf artium and vc, also try with my CC HD600)
> Was decided to play some tube with it buf struggling which I should go for. Any recoomandation of tubes that I can replace and let then sit there forever? (Didnt think of using any adaptors,maybe straight replacement on the 6as7g 421a and cv181 6sn7)
> thanks guys


We have a similar setup  Main difference being the DAC.

For tubes I was looking for something similar to you, not looking to tube roll much.

I've got RCA VT231 6SN7GT Smoke Glasses in the front, and up until yesterday the GEC6080s as powers. Just got the Tung Sol 5998 pair to replace the GECs and my initial impressions are the latter are livelier and dynamic with better extension on both ends while the GECs are a bit warmer but perhaps a bit more rolled off on both ends (after only 2hrs or so on the 5998s).

Those two sets of power tubes from what I've read are among the best unless you move to something like the WE 421a tubes but that's $1k+ or so (not sure what they sound like).

The RCAs are also top tier but your preferences will play into it as they run warm - something like Sylvania or Tung Sol VT 231s could be a bit brighter overall and Ken Rads are supposed to be pretty awesome with perhaps the most kickass bass as well, while Melz seem to be praised for their midrange. All around the same performance tier but you will want to choose based on what tuning you ultimately want.

Also, big disclaimer that I have only tried the tubes I have at hand, and the descriptions I've posted for the tubes above are from what I've gathered from reading a few threads.

I think I might look into Ken Rads in a few months but I'm happy with where I'm at.


----------



## Henrim

Nice! 

For Atrium I really like the LinLai 6SN7 for drivers and Gold Lion KT88 as powers (with adapters). Clean and impactful, the bass is very immersive and surrounds you. Very engaging.


----------



## Henrim

Plus I love how huge they are


----------



## alekc

Kamsang said:


> The Euforia AE just arrived to me yesterday. Love the sound signature of it from the begining, I still think it lack a bit of density in sound and some fine detail with the stock tubes.(using with my zmf artium and vc, also try with my CC HD600)
> Was decided to play some tube with it buf struggling which I should go for. Any recoomandation of tubes that I can replace and let then sit there forever? (Didnt think of using any adaptors,maybe straight replacement on the 6as7g 421a and cv181 6sn7)
> thanks guys


@Kamsang my recommendation would be: let play the tubes included with Euforia for few hours (100-150) and listen how it changes the sound. When I had been listening to Euforia within first few hours I got impression that everything was like behind a mist, the sound has been a bit too condensed and lacking of dynamics. After a while I got quite the opposite feeling: while Euforia has an intimate sound and sound stage everything has been clear, no feeling of any lack of dynamics etc. Details were also there. 

Check out than this track - it shows capabilities of Euforia in a brillant way IMHO:


----------



## Henrim (Sep 2, 2022)

I still find the Euforia (with the tubes I've tried) lacks the last bit of detail when I use it with Utopia or Hifiman he1000se, but the Atriums aren't resolving enough to pick that up (to my ears). But anyway the resolution isn't the reason why I love it, it's the 3D engaging sound, and it's ability to breaths life into headphones.

Nice track Alekc. This is my go to track for Eufroia and Atrium, I feel soooo relaxed with this . The whole album is good.


edit: I love the start of the track where the bassline comes in, this preview has cut that out.


----------



## Kamsang

alekc said:


> @Kamsang my recommendation would be: let play the tubes included with Euforia for few hours (100-150) and listen how it changes the sound. When I had been listening to Euforia within first few hours I got impression that everything was like behind a mist, the sound has been a bit too condensed and lacking of dynamics. After a while I got quite the opposite feeling: while Euforia has an intimate sound and sound stage everything has been clear, no feeling of any lack of dynamics etc. Details were also there.
> 
> Check out than this track - it shows capabilities of Euforia in a brillant way IMHO:



Before I purchased my own Euforia AE, I have tried a demo from our dealer. Their demo unit is fully burned in with the amp and as well as the stock tube. I did realize the demo gain a bit more 3D and a bit more dynamic as well as detail (I would say more like separation than clarity) (Clarity of detail are almost the same.) The reason I like Euforia AE is the feeling, this amp tune the sound to the way I like to listen. Relax and tasty to me. Specially pair with my ZMFs and sennheiser. For the Tube, really try to one shot it since I am not the guy gonna buy all different range of tubes and try them one by one...


----------



## Quince

Count me among the happy Euforia AE non-rollers. The stock tubes do it for me.


----------



## Renexx (Sep 2, 2022)

Quince said:


> Count me among the happy Euforia AE non-rollers. The stock tubes do it for me.


This sounds  like blasphemy for an addict like me hahaha🤞


Tube rolling is lots of fun.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> This sounds  like blasphemy for an addict like me hahaha🤞
> Tube rolling is lots of fun.


those tubes all like over 1k right now. 421a and slyvania 6as7gt


----------



## Renexx

Kamsang said:


> those tubes all like over 1k right now. 421a and slyvania 6as7gt


Sadly those holy grails Ones get more expensive every year. None of them are 1000$.

There is lots of cheaper tubes choices  available. 

 
Melz 6h8s + Tungsol 6as7 this combination is especially good.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> Sadly those holy grails Ones get more expensive every year. None of them are 1000$.
> 
> There is lots of cheaper tubes choices  available.
> Melz 6h8s + Tungsol 6as7 this combination is especially good.


How big difference jump from Melz 6h8s+6as7 to 421a + 6sn7gt from your previous post? im quite curious if i should just one step to reach to the top.


----------



## Renexx

421a/5998 are the most resolving power tubes throwing a wide quantity of staging. 421a and Sylvania 6sn7w  are more on the neutral side of things while still being very engaging with great low end.

Tungsol 6as7 is a little less resolving, quite warm, relaxed and  romantic sounding providing a very good quality of staging. It's holographic spacious sounding, that is exactly how I did imagine a tube amp to sound compared to a boring SS amp hehe. The Melz provides the best synergy for this.

Both are very complimentary tube rolls. I have many favorite tube rolls and they always synergize better with  different sets of my  Zmf headphones.



Kamsang said:


> How big difference jump from Melz 6h8s+6as7 to 421a + 6sn7gt from your previous post? im quite curious if i should just one step to reach to the top.



So it's not about how much better is each tube. It's more about synergy, meaning what fits best to your taste, audio chain and headphones.

I could make a summary of the best synergistic rolls I did find for the Euphoria AE and my tastes.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> 421a/5998 are the most resolving power tubes throwing a wide quantity of staging. 421a and Sylvania 6sn7w  are more on the neutral side of things while still being very engaging with great low end.
> 
> Tungsol 6as7 is a little less resolving, quite warm, relaxed and  romantic sounding providing a very good quality of staging. It's holographic spacious sounding, that is exactly how I did imagine a tube amp to sound compared to a boring SS amp hehe. The Melz provides the best synergy for this.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explaination. so far melz are really hard to find, luckly saw a set sell for 200 bucks maybe I jump on it. Tungsol 5998 still have quite a bit stock like ~150 each. maybe also good to hunt a set. saw your picture with chatham 5998 which looks similar to the tungsol as well. are the chatham just branded differently? or sound also different.

with your explaintion feels like 421a with 6sn7w set is more modern and 5998 with 6h8s more give you feel of sound from 80s that is more taste than pure resolution.

I already hate pair my zmf to my ss amp.


----------



## Renexx (Sep 4, 2022)

Chatham  took over Tungsol late in time. So Chatham tubes are the same as Tungsol. You can tell by the internal construction what tube you will buy.

It's better to buy at a safe scource for tubes than a cheap scource. Some sellers are shady. 

An OTL amp really has some magic paired with ZMF headphones. The 300ohms driver of  is unchained by the higher output impedance. There is no going back after you did experience tubes.

Listening to just the same sounding SS amp each day is my nightmare haha. Last time my Euphoria was gone for repair I was very happy when it did return.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> Chatham  took over Tungsol late in time. So Chatham tubes are the same as Tungsol. You can tell by the internal construction what tube you will buy.
> 
> It's better to buy at a safe scource for tubes than a cheap scource. Some sellers are shady.
> 
> ...


What happened to it?


----------



## Renexx

Kamsang said:


> What happened to it?


I did use 6080 tubes. The tube pins didn't reach fully into the sockets of the Euphoria. That led to a lightning arc damaging a microcontroller inside the amp. Feliks repaired it under warranty and advised me to use savers for big socket tubes like 6080. 

You start to really appreciate your tube amp after listening to your Solid state backup for two weeks.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> I did use 6080 tubes. The tube pins didn't reach fully into the sockets of the Euphoria. That led to a lightning arc damaging a microcontroller inside the amp. Feliks repaired it under warranty and advised me to use savers for big socket tubes like 6080.
> 
> You start to really appreciate your tube amp after listening to your Solid state backup for two weeks.


i see, after I checked the shop. tungsol 5998 plus melz 6h8s about 500 bucks here.should be good?


----------



## KrauserX91

Hi guys,

For tube arcing sacrificing, any cheap headphone is OK? I am seeing some second hand "hifi" tv headphones less than 10€ with 6,3 jack

Also I have a doubt about the turning on process. The test needs to be done every time I turn on or only to test the tubes for first time? When was explained to me in this topic, I understood that was for first time, but now I am doubting if I understood well. Just want to take care of my amp properly


----------



## Deleeh

Don't worry.
Just switch the amplifier on without the headphones in it and when you switch it off, turn the potentiometer back and unplug the headphones - that's enough.
I've been doing it this way all the time and everything is fine.

The only thing I have improved is a small length with a 6.3 mm plug and its opposite pole that stays in permanently to protect the headphone socket.

The Euforia's hardly ever cause any problems, if something is wrong then it's something small that Feliks quickly fixes.


----------



## Henrim

Do you have ZMF Atrium @Renexx? What is your favourite roll for them?


----------



## Kamsang

New Linlai 6sn7 arrive today, waiting on Melz 6H8S and Chatham 5998.
Anything else I should prepare.


----------



## Deleeh

Let me know how the Linlai work on the 5998.
I also have the Linlai's.
Remember that they need 100 hours to burn in.
Then the Linlai's will improve a corner.

The Linlai's also work very well with the 6080 Mullards, but the 5998's are very classy.
They could outperform the Mullards, but if you want to be more relaxed, the Mullards are also very good.

You can't go wrong with the Zmf headphones on the Euforia either.it's the right symbiosis.
I've already had 2 Zmf on it and it's something else again.
I really enjoy the Auteur and look forward to getting more one day.


----------



## Galapac (Sep 6, 2022)

Kamsang said:


> New Linlai 6sn7 arrive today, waiting on Melz 6H8S and Chatham 5998.
> Anything else I should prepare.


Are those true Linlai tubes?
They look suspect to me.
Here are real the Linlai tubes from Linlai Global and the branding is different.
https://linlaiglobal.com/index.php/product/linlai-global-elite-e-6sn7-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Yes, you are.
We had this discussion months ago.
And they have changed the design of the print.
I was also sceptical because mine looked different.

Mine were one of the first in the series:


----------



## Galapac

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Yes, you are.
> We had this discussion months ago.
> And they have changed the design of the print.
> ...


“Linlai Global“ branding is different from “Linlai Tube” branding and I’ll standby that.
Linlai even states on their website on their About page about the only accepted logo, which you have.



Others are perceived knockoffs of the Linlai Global brand.


----------



## Henrim

Where did you buy them @Kamsang?

Mine have the same base but say LinLai Global, I bought mine direct from their website.


----------



## Kamsang

Henrim said:


> Where did you buy them @Kamsang?
> 
> Mine have the same base but say LinLai Global, I bought mine direct from their website.


I bought from china direct from Linlai's webstore in china. I am letting mine burn in at the moment with 5998.

first impression. Sound stage become more spacious. guitar and other instrument become faster and noticable bit more depth and slam. but vocal wasnt my cup of tea. the original set is more 『taste』 like. this set is a bit more plain or i would call linear sound.


----------



## Renexx (Sep 7, 2022)

I got a pair of Raytheon 6Y6G today and the first impression is very good. sounds like  having a Raytheon vt-231 as power tube. Good synergy with russian Reflector 6h8s as my first try.
The Reflector and Foton 6h8s are great first tubes to buy instead of new production tubes. They are readily available and cheap.



Henrim said:


> Do you have ZMF Atrium @Renexx? What is your favourite roll for them?


When I recieved my Atrium I was trying new types of tubes in the Euphoria. 

EL39 is really impressive for low-end presentation. Also has a very holographic  dark sound, very analogue penthode sound same like EL3N or EL11/12. These tubes are crazy good for the Verite open.
Best synergy with GEC B65 or GEC 6v6 ( both sound the same as driver) as they are forward for voices and very clear on top end.




GEC KT66 I have two versions. First early smoked glass being a little more warm that's why I combined it with neutral and crisp Visseaux 6v6g.



Second clear glass being more neutral and very crisp. Amazing with warm sounding Canadian Marconi 6v6g. Blew me away how good they synergize. 
KT 66 doesn't have that penthode sound. It's forward mids with tight low-end. Amazing for rock music.




Mullard EL32 is a total sleeper. This is an early military smoked glass version. I can't tell if clear glass versions sound different. When I found another pair I grabbed it for quite cheap. Amazing smooth slightly  warm sound. Good with 5998.





My usual favourite tube rolls are good for Atriums also:
Sylvania vt-231 + GEC 6as7g
Sylvania 6sn7w + WE421a
Mullard ECC32 + 5998
Melz 6h8s + Tungsol 6as7g




Generally warmer tube Rolls are best with stock pads and more neutral are amazing with Auteur pads.

My Euphoria AE gets fed by a Rockna Wavelight DAC with linear filter.


----------



## Deleeh

Kamsang said:


> I bought from china direct from Linlai's webstore in china. I am letting mine burn in at the moment with 5998.
> 
> first impression. Sound stage become more spacious. guitar and other instrument become faster and noticable bit more depth and slam. but vocal wasnt my cup of tea. the original set is more 『taste』 like. this set is a bit more plain or i would call linear sound.


Hello,
I would have to look for the disscussion someone had had a very good explanation.
The logo also has a meaning.
I also thought they were fake and they are but if you buy from Linali you can be sure.
I bought mine in Canada where Linlai is certified.
You can be sure there too.
In Europe, there is a German dealer who is certified.

The Linlai are a bit sharp and unclean in the burn in phase, also vocally.
But that is getting better.
Unfortunately, I can't say anything about the 5998.

I had a set there that was unfortunately rotten, the enjoyment had been quite short to judge them seriously.
But I just about understood the 5998 hype before they failed completely.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> In Europe, there is a German dealer who is certified.


Btb-elektronik is the name, if someone was wondering


----------



## Henrim

Man that’s some serious tube porn, if you will. Love it!!


----------



## Kamsang

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I would have to look for the disscussion someone had had a very good explanation.
> The logo also has a meaning.
> I also thought they were fake and they are but if you buy from Linali you can be sure.
> ...


you mean 5998 is not that impressive or? Which you compares to?


----------



## Kamsang

What I have heard is using adaptor and nos tubes use we 396a even better


----------



## Kamsang

Finally my Melz 6h8s had arrived


----------



## BrainSalat

Today mine too. I had to wait a few months until I could find the machine gun version. They make a good symbiosis with the GEC 6080


----------



## maszynista1987

Cool combination  - 6sn7GT Marconi Canada i Kt88 Gold Lion


----------



## Kamsang

BrainSalat said:


> Today mine too. I had to wait a few months until I could find the machine gun version. They make a good symbiosis with the GEC 6080


Whats the difference?


----------



## rjones36

maszynista1987 said:


> Cool combination  - 6sn7GT Marconi Canada i Kt88 Gold Lion


What is the adapter you are using with the KT88 Gold Lion tubes?


----------



## maszynista1987

I sent a message .


----------



## barontan2418

maszynista1987 said:


> I sent a message .


On a different note. Anybody in UK/EU want to do a straight swap for two unused Gold lion KT 88 for two Gold lion KT77's ?


----------



## dfiled

New to this thread.  I have had the Euforia for a while now, only using them for ZMF cans.  I’m waiting on some LCD-5s.  Has anyone run the Audezes or similarly low-impedance planars on that Euforia and how did it work out?


----------



## KrauserX91

dfiled said:


> New to this thread.  I have had the Euforia for a while now, only using them for ZMF cans.  I’m waiting on some LCD-5s.  Has anyone run the Audezes or similarly low-impedance planars on that Euforia and how did it work out?



I listened the Arya Stealth on Euforia AE, I thought would work having 32ohm, the minimum required in Euforia according to specs. At first I thought it was good but in some musics the sound was broken, specially the bass sounds like a loud concert with cheap speakers. Also when Atrium and Euforia (both were new) finished burn in I could definitely know the Arya wasnt working well on the Euforia.


----------



## bhdang

KrauserX91 said:


> I listened the Arya Stealth on Euforia AE, I thought would work having 32ohm, the minimum required in Euforia according to specs. At first I thought it was good but in some musics the sound was broken, specially the bass sounds like a loud concert with cheap speakers. Also when Atrium and Euforia (both were new) finished burn in I could definitely know the Arya wasnt working well on the Euforia.


Had the exact same experience, I thought there was something wrong with my cable when testing it out.


----------



## dfiled

Thanks.  That reviewer Mid-Fi Guy said it was a great synergy.  I wonder if he even listened to the Audezes on the Euforia.  

I have a GS-X mini — I wonder if I’d get any benefit using the Euforia as a preamp.


----------



## incredulousity

Euforia as a preamp into either solid state amp or speakers is a good experience. It is probably a better way to drive low impedance or insensitive planars than Euforia directly.


----------



## LoryWiv

KrauserX91 said:


> I listened the Arya Stealth on Euforia AE, I thought would work having 32ohm, the minimum required in Euforia according to specs. At first I thought it was good but in some musics the sound was broken, specially the bass sounds like a loud concert with cheap speakers. Also when Atrium and Euforia (both were new) finished burn in I could definitely know the Arya wasnt working well on the Euforia.


It is not only a function of headphone impedance but sensitivity as well. Audeze LCD-5 is 90 db & Arya Stealth 94 dB. I am interested in MM-500 which while low impedance is more sensitive at 100 dB. Has anyone tried the combination of Euforia or Euforia AE driving Audeze MM-500?


----------



## BrainSalat (Sep 11, 2022)

Kamsang said:


> Whats the difference?



About Melz 1578 tube types, start reading around here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-16945364


----------



## Kamsang

My favorite set for zmf atrium at the moment.


----------



## Quince

@Kamsang Did you build a Faraday-ish cage for your headphones? why did you? At one point I did something similar to my Euforia when chasing an elusive hum (now gone).


----------



## Kamsang

Quince said:


> @Kamsang Did you build a Faraday-ish cage for your headphones? why did you? At one point I did something similar to my Euforia when chasing an elusive hum (now gone).


I use it for heat reduce. but anyhow they come with the mesh sheet on the outside, maybe help out something I don't know lol


----------



## Quince

Kamsang said:


> I use it for heat reduce. but anyhow they come with the mesh sheet on the outside, maybe help out something I don't know lol


🤣


----------



## skhan007

Guys, somewhat late to party and only just learning about this amp. Somebody mentioned I should research it, as I was looking for a TOTL headphone amp. I'm currently listening through ZMF VO & Auteur and an RME ADI2 DAC through a Bottle Head Crack. I've been interested in moving into an endgame level amp and the Euforia and 20th Anniversary Euforia were suggested. 

In a nutshell, can someone summarize the difference/upgrade with the Anniversary edition? I have a stash of NOS tube pairs just sitting in a box doing nothing (GEC 6080, TungSol 5998, Chatham 6as7g) so maybe this amp could put them to use?

The best tube amps I've heard to date (in my limited exposure) are Linear Tube Audio MZ3 and Woo Audio WA22. Is the Euforia on par or maybe better than either, in you collective opinions? Thanks in advance for any input!


----------



## Kamsang

Try we396a later


----------



## dfiled

I am about to use the Euforia as a preamp for the first time -- through a solid-state headphone amp.  What volume level should the Euforia be at to make it roughly neutral volume-wise?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## incredulousity

Pretty high, I found, but not maximum. It depends on what input voltage your amp likes, and probably what your DAC feeds Euforia as well.


----------



## toddc2

dfiled said:


> I am about to use the Euforia as a preamp for the first time -- through a solid-state headphone amp.  What volume level should the Euforia be at to make it roughly neutral volume-wise?  Thanks in advance.


I occasionally use the preamp out into a SONOS Port. I set the volume at mid-point and adjust the final speaker volume with SONOS. Since you are using it as true preamp, I would start with a lower volume setting and adjust accordingly.


----------



## dfiled

toddc2 said:


> I occasionally use the preamp out into a SONOS Port. I set the volume at mid-point and adjust the final speaker volume with SONOS. Since you are using it as true preamp, I would start with a lower volume setting and adjust accordingly.


Thank you!


----------



## kumar402

dfiled said:


> I am about to use the Euforia as a preamp for the first time -- through a solid-state headphone amp.  What volume level should the Euforia be at to make it roughly neutral volume-wise?  Thanks in advance.


Check with manufacturer for positioning the volume pot for unity gain


----------



## connieflyer

Lorywiv when you get a chance, why not tell us about CanJam, would be nice to hear your impressions.


----------



## LoryWiv

Absolutely, i'm sure there will be a can-jam impressions thread and if I have a chance to listen to any of the new headphones from euforia I will be sure to share my thoughts here as well


----------



## connieflyer

LoryWiv said:


> Absolutely, i'm sure there will be a can-jam impressions thread and if I have a chance to listen to any of the new headphones from euforia I will be sure to share my thoughts here as well


 I sure wish I would have made it there but family family matters kind of prohibited this year. I thank you for your generous offer out there as well. Thank you very much for that


----------



## BrainSalat

As I mentioned some days ago, I got a pair of Melz 1578, however one of them started to fail soon with some static and crackling noise. Then I remembered someone here mentioned that this was a common issue with these tubes and a re-soldering of the pins may be required. So I took the challenger and it worked! .

So basically:

I removed the older solder in all pins with a solder sucker desolding pump. 
Then I applied solder paste inside all pin holes.
To finally re-solder all pins.
Here some pics of the process


----------



## BrainSalat (Sep 22, 2022)

Have anyone tried audio grade fuses with the Euforia? I opened the fuse box of my Euforia and the stock fuse is just a normal cheap fuse.
I would like to give it a try and verify whether the claims out there are not just a myth. My Holo DAC for example came already with a more fancy fuse.
I am skeptical but curious enough to give it a try.


----------



## Deleeh

BrainSalat said:


> Have anyone tried audio grade fuses with the Euforia? I opened the fuse box of my Euforia and the stock fuse is just a normal cheap fuse.
> I would like to give it a try and verify whether the claims out there are not just a myth. My Holo DAC for example came already with a more fancy fuse.
> I am skeptical but curious enough to give it a try.


Hello,
Yes I have tried the Hifi Tuning fuse and found it good.
With tube amplifiers you should use silver caps on the fuse instead of gold.
I have tried both from Hifi Tuning.
The gold one is warmer but muddier in the bass range.
It was much better with the silver one.More bite,slightly better Mid and highs.A bit more shining in the Area.
The sound is better than the normal fuse and the improvements are more subtle.
So there is nothing that stands out directly and enormously now, everything is better in the subtle area.

The hi-fi tuning doesn't cost much and is absolutely okay.
I hear good things about the Purpel research, but the money is a bit of a pity for me personally.
It's better to invest in a shielded cable from Audioquest or Isotek, because you have a little more subtle improvement.

If you want to go one step further, you can invest in a power strip.

A question for you: how does the Holo Spring do on the Euforia?


----------



## jonathan c

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Yes I have tried the Hifi Tuning fuse and found it good.
> With tube amplifiers you should use silver caps on the fuse instead of gold.
> I have tried both from Hifi Tuning.
> ...


*** visually or sonically 😜 ?


----------



## Deleeh

Sonically, of course.
Hifi tuning is the only one I have tried so far.
There are a few others, but I don't know how good and if they are good.
Of course it's also subjective somewhere.

With the Holo, the question was also sound in combination with the Euforia,😉.


----------



## incredulousity

Holo Spring 3 KTE and Holo May KTE both sound great with Euforia AE. The amp is good enough to easily see improvement between these and other very good, but lesser DACs, such as RME.


----------



## LoryWiv

Can someone point me to where on the Euforia serial number is located? I need it for a potential repair authorization. Thank you!


----------



## BrainSalat

thanks @Deleeh for the feedback. Do you remember the fuse specs (ampere, voltage, slow or fast blow?). Are you still using the silver one?

About the Holo DAC, I second the comment of @incredulousity, it sounds amazing with the Euforia. My previous DAC was the ADI-2 PRO and the Spring3 KTE just plays in a different league. The ADI-2 is still a great DAC, probably the king on his price tag, specially for its unique DSP tools, but in raw performance is just left behind. The S3 KTE sounds cleaner, more out of your head, better resolver, every instrument is clearly differentiated and has its own 3D location.

To me, The S3 KTE sounds like you were listening to an analog device, like vinyl or reels, instead of hires audio and that makes the experience more realistic. For example the Chord TT2 shares a lot of properties with S3 KTE, bigger soundstage, resolver, layering but still sounds more digital to me.

The S3 KTE has a bit more laid down tuning compared the more energetic TT2 or my ADI2. With the ADI2 and the Utopias my favorite tube combo was the TS 5998 + soft-ice-scream TS BGRP, but with the S3 KTE I find this combo now too soft and I prefer some "brighter" drivers like the Melz 1578.

Finally the DSD native playback on the S3 KTE is the best I have experienced. With the TT2 qualities are similar in several departments but in DSD playback the S3 KTE has an edge and way better than on the ADI2.

I have loved my ADI-2 so much, but now I have hard time finding reasons to keep it.


----------



## incredulousity

You need to keep it, because if you ever need to send the Spring in for service, you won’t be tempted to buy a May, while waiting for it to come back. You have to have a backup DAC that doesn’t suck at all, after getting used to Spring.


----------



## Deleeh

BrainSalat said:


> thanks @Deleeh for the feedback. Do you remember the fuse specs (ampere, voltage, slow or fast blow?). Are you still using the silver one?
> 
> About the Holo DAC, I second the comment of @incredulousity, it sounds amazing with the Euforia. My previous DAC was the ADI-2 PRO and the Spring3 KTE just plays in a different league. The ADI-2 is still a great DAC, probably the king on his price tag, specially for its unique DSP tools, but in raw performance is just left behind. The S3 KTE sounds cleaner, more out of your head, better resolver, every instrument is clearly differentiated and has its own 3D location.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the great impressions of Spring on the Euforia.
It's definitely worth taking a closer look at it.

The fuse for the normal Euforia was 1.25 amps 5x20 mm and T in the switching behaviour (slow blow).

However, I don't know if the same fuse is installed in the Euforia AE.
I would check what it says on the fuse caps.
You can ignore the 250v marking.

I tried silver after the gold one was in and stayed with the silver one.
I got the tip from Vcap that tube amps respond better to silver fuses than the gold ones.
The gold ones are good for Dac's, DDC etc..
However, the fuses usually need a certain amount of time to play in.

Unfortunately, I don't know if it's enough to leave the Euforia on standby so that it's connected to the power supply, or if it really needs 100 hours of pure play.
I had this in mind when I had to run in the capacitors for several 100 hours.
At some point, that took care of itself.

@LoryWiv as far as I know there is no serial number, only the number that shows how many times your euforia version was built.
This is the small golden plate under the amplifier.


----------



## Galapac

Deleeh said:


> @LoryWiv as far as I know there is no serial number, only the number that shows how many times your euforia version was built.
> This is the small golden plate under the amplifier.


I had mine repaired for another user and I was told that the bottom plate is the serial number.


----------



## BrainSalat

incredulousity said:


> You need to keep it, because if you ever need to send the Spring in for service, you won’t be tempted to buy a May, while waiting for it to come back. You have to have a backup DAC that doesn’t suck at all, after getting used to Spring.


That's a good reason!
I also was thinking to keep the ADI-2 as complementary solid state headphone amp, feeding it with the Spring3, but unfortunately is not possible to bypass the internal ADC-DSP-DAC stage before the signal reaches the phones.


----------



## Kamsang

incredulousity said:


> Holo Spring 3 KTE and Holo May KTE both sound great with Euforia AE. The amp is good enough to easily see improvement between these and other very good, but lesser DACs, such as RME.


Denafrips Pontus 2 is on par with Spring 3? Holo May KTE I didn't what expectation I should set this Dac to as comparison... End game?


----------



## incredulousity

Both are endgame. May is definitely a bit better though.


----------



## Kamsang

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I have replaced the glass fuse on the Euforia and the Dac with a Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 copper.
> I let them play in a little bit and in the meantime I can notice some differences.
> In general, the temperature on the units has dropped a little, about 5-7 degrees.
> ...


What is the Amp of the Fuse you choose? The stock one is 1A after I toke a look of it. And should I go for just 1A or a bit more?


----------



## BrainSalat

Kamsang said:


> What is the Amp of the Fuse you choose? The stock one is 1A after I toke a look of it. And should I go for just 1A or a bit more?



I asked the same question to info@feliksaudio.pl, the recommended range, but not answer so far.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Kamsang said:


> What is the Amp of the Fuse you choose? The stock one is 1A after I toke a look of it. And should I go for just 1A or a bit more?


Go for 1A ( if that's the size written on the amp), if you go for higher it might trigger too late in case of malfunction


----------



## Kamsang

HiFi Tuning 99% silver +1% gold Fuse 1A， arrived today， so good so far. Tinny bit of different but I think that tiny different give me a better refinement on the VC. 
Not sure what else I should try as fuse goes. I saw like 50 bucks all the way to a grand for just once fuse.


----------



## BrainSalat

Today I got my Sylvania VT-231. Thanks @Renexx for the recommendation.






My first impression is that they sound kind of similar to the Melz but with a bit more present (and crispy) top treble region. Lovely!


----------



## Kamsang

This like 130 a pair?


BrainSalat said:


> Today I got my Sylvania VT-231. Thanks @Renexx for the recommendation.
> 
> 
> 
> My first impression is that they sound kind of similar to the Melz but with a bit more present (and crispy) top treble region. Lovely


----------



## BrainSalat (Sep 24, 2022)

Kamsang said:


> This like 130 a pair?


No, it was around 250 the pair but they are NOS (from 1945).


----------



## Kamsang

BrainSalat said:


> No, it was around 250 the pair but they are NOS (from 1945).


I ordered a pair also Sylvania white text vt231 iron plate. Looks similar to yours structurally but text different… paid like 130-140 pair. Not sure if different


----------



## Deleeh

Kamsang said:


> What is the Amp of the Fuse you choose? The stock one is 1A after I toke a look of it. And should I go for just 1A or a bit more?


Hello,

@Kamsang

Yes, that is exactly the one you have chosen.
https://www.hifi-zubehoer.shop/hifi-tuning-supreme-3-feinsicherung-5x20-a-20667.htm

I also used it at the time.
Always install the fuses that are marked on them to avoid complications.
Since you already have the fuse, give it at least 100 hours burn in before you commit.
I have also read in other posts that some claim that it makes sense to turn the fuse after burn in.
Hifi tuning itself has been rather cautious about this.
You can try it later.
I also agree that the changes are rather subtle.
You will/should notice later when you go back to the old one for fun that it does make a small subtle difference and can decide what you prefer.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you whether other fuses play even a little better. Personally, it's just too much money for the subtle things.
I invested the Hifi Tuning fuse, for example, as a gold version for the Dac and Singxer Su 2 back then because it brings out "even more" subtle things than just using a fuse alone for expensive money in an amplifier.
Not all fuses are good on the market, and there are also sham fuses that are only pretty to look at from the outside, which has to be said.
For me, Hifi Tuning simply has a better price/performance ratio overall, which is why I have installed one in every device, also for safety reasons. Somewhere you have to remain realistic, certainly cables and fuses as well as wall sockets from Furutech have an influence, but it is kept small.
In the end, it's a discretionary decision for each individual.
These things tend to scrape the last bit out of the system.
For me, tubes and capacitors have much more influence on changes that you like or dislike.


----------



## Rins

I am applying to the Euforia club. 
I have the AE version and am looking for recommendations on suitable power tubes. My setup is Hugo2 (DAC) - Euforia AE-headphones Utopia and Empyrean. For now, I would like to stick with the recommendet FA tubes. I've had the amplifier for a few months now and I've listened to it quite a bit. From what I have read, suitable candidates would be Tung-sol 5998,Gec 6080 and Mullard 6080. Unfortunately, the availability of Tung-sol 5998 and Gec 6080 is not the best and the prices are high. I will appreciate your opinions.


----------



## incredulousity

I have a set of TS 5998 and a pair of TS 7236 available.


----------



## flea22

Is anyone here using a power conditioner with there amp? If so I would love some recommendations! Also would love to know if you think the sq is worth the upgrade.

Thanks, have a upgrade itch.


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 12, 2022)

flea22 said:


> Is anyone here using a power conditioner with there amp? If so I would love some recommendations! Also would love to know if you think the sq is worth the upgrade.
> 
> Thanks, have a upgrade itch.


Furman Elite-15 PF i, hard to evaluate effect on SQ as I've had it in system for several years but by recall, yes it was a positive addition. Not as impactful as rolling tubes and impact  may depend upon the quality of the mains power in your home.


----------



## connieflyer

I have two of these units, one on the headphone system and pc, and the sound did sound better.  The other one is on the main music system and tv, and this made a lot of difference on the tv picture.


----------



## myphone

I use PS audio Stellar PowerPlant P3. P3 makes significant improvement over isolation transformer.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

flea22 said:


> Is anyone here using a power conditioner with there amp? If so I would love some recommendations! Also would love to know if you think the sq is worth the upgrade.
> 
> Thanks, have a upgrade itch.


I have a pair of Emotiva CMX-2 AC Filter w/DC offset eliminators.  They took care of any residual background noise, and now all I hear is inky blackness....


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

I've been using the Audioquest powerquest 3 for a while now because my Taga Harmony broke and is being repaired.
The Powerquest 3 is quite good, it dampens the hum of the tubes a bit more than the Taga Harmony, of course it can vary depending on the tube.
Nevertheless, I am satisfied with the sound of the Powerquest.
The dynamics have gone down a bit but not much, otherwise it's very good, a bit blacker in the background, altogether fleshier and more tangible.

I was a bit annoyed when I saw a bar on Magna Hifi.com a little later that was much cheaper than the Powerquest 3 and I think it is also better than the Taga Harmony.

The Ifi Audio bar is also supposed to be very good but costs a bit accordingly.

It all depends on the budget you want to spend.


----------



## BrainSalat

flea22 said:


> Is anyone here using a power conditioner with there amp? If so I would love some recommendations! Also would love to know if you think the sq is worth the upgrade.



I use the Dynavox X4100.
I got it for my previous tube amp, the Little Dot MKIV SE. Before it, I could hear, very subtle on my headphones, the hard drive of my desktop machine every time it was accessing data. After installing the power conditioner, the background was complete silent, the same with the Euforia.


----------



## flea22

Thanks. For the recommendations guys and also your experience in using a conditioner. Seems it will be a worthy update to my system, I have a massive upgrade itch atm. haha.

Going to do some googling on the power conditioners you lot have mentioned.


----------



## BrainSalat

Does anyone know where I could get me a pair of WE 421a?. You can send me a PM if you prefer.


----------



## maszynista1987 (Oct 16, 2022)

Looking for a pair of Tung Sol 5998, in Europe


----------



## maszynista1987

Sorry duplicate.


----------



## BrainSalat

Kamsang said:


> What is the Amp of the Fuse you choose? The stock one is 1A after I toke a look of it. And should I go for just 1A or a bit more?


Got answer from Feliks Audio, They use T1.6A slow blow fuse type for the Euforia.

I already got me the Synergistic Research Orange for my HoloAudio DAC (as recommended by several in the HoloAudio thread) and I am starting to believe.


----------



## Kamsang

BrainSalat said:


> Got answer from Feliks Audio, They use T1.6A slow blow fuse type for the Euforia.
> 
> I already got me the Synergistic Research Orange for my HoloAudio DAC (as recommended by several in the HoloAudio thread) and I am starting to believe.


What headphones do you use with your Feliks audio?
After I checked some of the spec of DAC, I was planning to upgrade my Pontus 2 to Sonnet Pasithea. Hope it will match my Euforia as well.


----------



## Renexx

Kamsang said:


> After I checked some of the spec of DAC, I was planning to upgrade my Pontus 2 to Sonnet Pasithea. Hope it will match my Euforia as well.


I was looking for the sonnet Morpheus DAC to complement my Euphoria AE before.

Then I read this comparison review and it made me forget the Morpheus:

https://www.sonusapparatus.com/2022/02/short-high-end-dac-comparison-pt-2/

The AE might be a little bit warmer than the normal Euphoria. Not sure if the Pasithea has the same tuning like the Morpheus.
 In general I would not recommend an overly warm DAC like the Morpheus for the Euphoria.
I really like a warm chain but warm DAC + warm amp + warm headphone is too much. Especially since most of the tubes available for the Euphoria lean to the warm side of things.


----------



## Kamsang

Renexx said:


> I was looking for the sonnet Morpheus DAC to complement my Euphoria AE before.
> 
> Then I read this comparison review and it made me forget the Morpheus:
> 
> ...


Well from the YouTube comparison, their original Metrum DAC sound warmer than all the Sonnet I had listen to. So I would give it a shot.


----------



## BrainSalat

Kamsang said:


> What headphones do you use with your Feliks audio?



I use the Focal Utopia and the Beyerdynamic DT1990 PRO but most people here would probably find ZMF headphones to have the best synergy with the Euforia.


----------



## shafat777

Any peeps around here use 12axx series tubes with their Euforia/Elise? I just purchased a set of adapters from Pulsetubestore and am very curious to try some of my 12at7 tubes that i use with my MJ2. Currently i have a set of 57 footscray Brimar CV 4033 Square getters burning in  my Elise before i give it a listen. Any info/feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## ThanatosVI

G


ood stuff incoming


----------



## Renexx (Oct 27, 2022)

Looks like a spaceship. No need to upgrade for Euphoria AE users I guess.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Renexx said:


> Looks like a spaceship. No Upgrade for my Euphoria AE I guess.


I'm super digging thr Evo Design.
Hopefully there will also be an Elise Evo


----------



## Renexx

The surface coating looks better than on the normal Euphoria. The futuristic design is nice.


----------



## Deceneu808

ThanatosVI said:


> Good stuff incoming


Finally I can talk to someone else about it. It's set up to improve on interference suppression and thermal isolation. Apparently lower operating temps will impact the sound positively. It will have the same or better matching with high sensitivity planars just like the AE.
Excited to learn more about it !


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Finally I can talk to someone else about it. It's set up to improve on interference suppression and thermal isolation. Apparently lower operating temps will impact the sound positively. It will have the same or better matching with high sensitivity planars just like the AE.
> Excited to learn more about it !


Like the AE would be crazy, since this is cheaper than the regular AE.

Could you listen to it and compare?
Do you know anymore details.

And a weird question: Will KT88 etc work with adapters like on the previous Version?


----------



## incredulousity

ThanatosVI said:


> Like the AE would be crazy, since this is cheaper than the regular AE.
> 
> Could you listen to it and compare?
> Do you know anymore details.
> ...


That’s not a weird question. That’s an important one!


----------



## LoryWiv

ThanatosVI said:


> Like the AE would be crazy, since this is *cheaper than the regular AE*.
> 
> Could you listen to it and compare?
> Do you know anymore details.
> ...


Is pricing set?


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> Is pricing set?


2.699€

It has most of the upgraded internals of the Anniversary Edition. So it really seems like a great offer imo.


----------



## LoryWiv

XLR HP output noted...is this a true balanced amp. or is the jack just for convenience?


----------



## SlothRock

Seems like it's just for convenience. Still an OTL so it won't be moving into Envy's territory. Honestly feels like a good refresh - but the biggest upgrade is if they have a power button on the front this time!


----------



## incredulousity

Even the Envy isn’t a true balanced amp, I thought.


----------



## ThanatosVI

LoryWiv said:


> XLR HP output noted...is this a true balanced amp. or is the jack just for convenience?





incredulousity said:


> Even the Envy isn’t a true balanced amp, I thought.


It's just for convenience. Neither amp is fully balanced since that rarely pays off for tube amps.


----------



## Deceneu808 (Oct 28, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Like the AE would be crazy, since this is cheaper than the regular AE.
> 
> Could you listen to it and compare?
> Do you know anymore details.
> ...


I can't make any comparisons. I haven't heard both. I've been exchanging emails with Feliks the last month or so and knew about the upcoming Evo. Hopefully i will be able to own one later this year. It would be a veritable upgrade from the Elise


----------



## helljudgement

incredulousity said:


> Even the Envy isn’t a true balanced amp, I thought.


Balanced output is possible for amps with output transformer as the transformer is inherently a differential device.


----------



## OctavianH (Oct 29, 2022)

I do not quite like the new design, but this is a matter of personal preference. In the end only the front plate is different. What I do not really understand is why they keep in the product line 2 different models which have, more or less, the same features and price. Most probably it makes sense for them to retire one of them and mantain focus only on the most relevant. A balanced output for convenience does not make sense to support 2 models. It should be an upgrade option. Just my 2 cents.

Later edit: Btw, the on/off is still on the back...


----------



## Deceneu808

OctavianH said:


> I do not quite like the new design, but this is a matter of personal preference. In the end only the front plate is different. What I do not really understand is why they keep in the product line 2 different models which have, more or less, the same features and price. Most probably it makes sense for them to retire one of them and mantain focus only on the most relevant. A balanced output for convenience does not make sense to support 2 models. It should be an upgrade option. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Later edit: Btw, the on/off is still on the back...


The normal Euforia and AE will be retired


----------



## OctavianH

Deceneu808 said:


> The normal Euforia and AE will be retired


Ah, in this case it makes perfectly sense. Thanks for info.


----------



## Deceneu808

We could potentially have different color options for volume knob but nothing for sure as of yet


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
It's not quite mine either.
I like the Euforia the way it is, no frills with a big potentiometer.

The Evo model doesn't have that, which is a shame.
Xlr is maybe a nice to have but nothing more.

I also doubt better tuning with planar headphones as the normal Euforia should also do it but is limited.

Internally I think the Mundorf capacitors are probably used again, so nothing new either.
For the price, something better should be in there.
My 2 cents.

I also find it disturbing that they are sticking to the 6as7g tubes.
I would have preferred a different tube family.
And let's be honest, it's about time something happened.
We see how the market is for 5998 6080 tubes, if there is anything to be found at all, especially with 5998,7236 the prices are very high.
And no one is producing any more, even though the demand is there.

Cables, bring the temperature down, okay, not a bad idea.

All in all a very proud price for 2600€.
My tip is to keep the current Euforia as it is, or think about replacing the capacitors on the sockets.
The added value will be greater than buying a new one.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> It's not quite mine either.
> I like the Euforia the way it is, no frills with a big potentiometer.
> 
> ...


Yeah for Euforia owners thr switch probably isn't worth it.

For New owners the XLR is a nice convenience upgrade.

Personally I love the new aesthetics. Has some Envy vibes merged with the old design.

I agree that a new Iteration should switch tube families. Maybe to KT88 which many use with adapters anyways


----------



## ThanatosVI

from Warsaw with the new protection mesh
Looks gorgeous imo.
The Euforia was always a pretty amp but for my taste they made further improvements.


----------



## Deleeh (Oct 30, 2022)

Do you happen to have any details of what they did to the final Evo?
It can't have been the wiring alone.
And did you have a chance to listen in?

The front is really a matter of taste, I have to say.

One more question for you,how good is the Sophia Electric Kt 88?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Do you happen to have any details of what they did to the final Evo?
> It can't have been the wiring alone.
> And did you have a chance to listen in?
> 
> ...


I wasn't there personally,  the picture was shared on Feliks Audios social Media. 

The internals are basically from the Euforia 20th AE with small exceptions like the capacitors. I don't know any more than that.

And the Sophia Electric KT88 are great. Spacious sounding, lush midrange and great detail + extension. Certainly among the best KT88s currently available


----------



## flea22

I like the aesthetics of the original euforia better. As a current owner of the original euforia I think I will upgrade to a 300b amp next. Good selection of 300b tubes on offer.

I agree with past comments about the 6as7g tubes, way too expensive and hard to find good nos tubes for. Would prefer quality current production tubes.

I got ripped off on ebay a while ago on some 421a tubes. Feel like a fool.


----------



## BrainSalat

Yeah, nice to have a new Euforia Evo but the problem is that we are running out of good power tubes. I have been hunting the WE421a for months now without success (at any price) and I was lucky to get me a backup pair of TS 5998, which are also running scarce. Not even mention others that got already in extinction (TS 7236, Bendix 6080, GEC 6080 cup getter).

I wonder if we can get some similar quality tubes by using adapters.


----------



## Deceneu808

Yup. Different color knobs available. Still looks stupid big though


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deceneu808 said:


> Yup. Different color knobs available. Still looks stupid big though


I really wonder,  is this something the customers want?

The only option for me would be the Black one, however I wouldn't mind smaller knobs as a choice...


----------



## SlothRock

If anyone is interested in getting a Feliks Euforia AE with minimal usage and in great condition, i'm currently selling mine (link in signature). Moving forward with SS amps so, while I love this amp dearly, it deserves a home that can use it more often


----------



## Deleeh

Thank you @ThanatosVI  ,
the KT 88 Sophia sounds interesting.
Did you put it in the front or the back?


The colour of the potentiometer on the Evo is not my cup of tea either.
Gold/chrome ring,black/chrome or all black would be okay.
The rest would not be mine, especially the bright purple.


Apart from the tube availability now.
I must also add that the Euforia is totally uncomplicated with clean adapters to be able to go to another tube where other amplifiers are not so friendly in this respect.

For example, I have already made provisions for when there are no more 6080 5998s.
This is definitely an added value of this amplifier, no matter if normal, AE or EVO.

The other thing is that it is quite easy to change the capacitors on the 6SN7 socket for better ones and the whole thing has changed for the better in less than an hour.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Thank you @ThanatosVI ,
> the KT 88 Sophia sounds interesting.
> Did you put it in the front or the back?


I don't have an Euforia. The pictures are from a show im warsaw. 

I use Sophia Electric KT88 in my Octave V16 (which is a KT88-KT150 amp natively)


----------



## LoryWiv (Nov 1, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> I wasn't there personally,  the picture was shared on Feliks Audios social Media.
> 
> The* internals are basically from the Euforia 20th AE *with small exceptions like the capacitors. I don't know any more than that.
> 
> And the Sophia Electric KT88 are great. Spacious sounding, lush midrange and great detail + extension. Certainly among the best KT88s currently available


It will be nice to see the full specs, it is quite a bit cheaper than AE so I wonder what other compromises were made?


----------



## GaryP

LoryWiv said:


> It will be nice to see the full specs, it is quite a bit cheaper than AE so I wonder what oyster compromises were made?



In the anniversary edition, the painting was time consuming, in the evo they moved away from that so could reduce the price. Of course there are some minor changes as well.


----------



## Quince

I am glad I own the AE. Besides the sound, which is, as we know, glorious, I can live with its understated good looks. The Evo or the Envy don't do it for me, but besides likes or dislikes, I fail to see a connecting thread between both design languages, which intrigues me.


----------



## iamdman

All,

Super excited I have an AE ordered today. I was looking at Cayin HA6A and also the 300Mk2 (thought it was much more than what I had planned) but decided to give AE a try given they are now discounted and they seem to go great with my headphones HD800s and ZMF VC from mscaler > tt2 stack. Hope I made the right call...!!


----------



## ThanatosVI

iamdman said:


> All,
> 
> Super excited I have an AE ordered today. I was looking at Cayin HA6A and also the 300Mk2 (thought it was much more than what I had planned) but decided to give AE a try given they are now discounted and they seem to go great with my headphones HD800s and ZMF VC from mscaler > tt2 stack. Hope I made the right call...!!


From what I read the AE has great synergy with your headphone collection. As long as you don't add a Susvara or similar, I can't see you regret your choice


----------



## iamdman

iamdman said:


> All,
> 
> Super excited I have an AE ordered today. I was looking at Cayin HA6A and also the 300Mk2 (thought it was much more than what I had planned) but decided to give AE a try given they are now discounted and they seem to go great with my headphones HD800s and ZMF VC from mscaler > tt2 stack. Hope I made the right call...!!


Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp? I have used moon audio interconnects before and liked them but their silver dragon RCA interconnects are like $500 as I see on their site now and wondering if there is anything better in that price range or less?

Thanks


----------



## toddc2

iamdman said:


> Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp? I have used moon audio interconnects before and liked them but their silver dragon RCA interconnects are like $500 as I see on their site now and wondering if there is anything better in that price range or less?
> 
> Thanks


I don’t have a specific recommendation for you but wanted wanted to point out that cables on the used market are readily available and are usually priced about 50% of retail. If I try a used cable and don’t like it I can always sell it for what I paid and try something else.


----------



## OctavianH

iamdman said:


> Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp?


Find someone to build you a pair of Neotech NEI-2001 interconnects and you will never look for another cables. As far as I know something similar is used inside AE for wiring.


----------



## Moose246 (Nov 6, 2022)

New Euforia AE amp owner (purchased used on this site)....sounds wonderful. Will eventually get to trying different tubes.


----------



## Moose246

toddc2 said:


> I don’t have a specific recommendation for you but wanted wanted to point out that cables on the used market are readily available and are usually priced about 50% of retail. If I try a used cable and don’t like it I can always sell it for what I paid and try something else.





iamdman said:


> Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp? I have used moon audio interconnects before and liked them but their silver dragon RCA interconnects are like $500 as I see on their site now and wondering if there is anything better in that price range or less?
> 
> Thanks



Audio Envy makes really good interconnects at a very reasonable price.

https://audioenvy.com/


----------



## iamdman

Moose246 said:


> Audio Envy makes really good interconnects at a very reasonable price.
> 
> https://audioenvy.com/




Thanks! Will check them out.


----------



## elrey

iamdman said:


> Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp? I have used moon audio interconnects before and liked them but their silver dragon RCA interconnects are like $500 as I see on their site now and wondering if there is anything better in that price range or less?
> 
> Thanks


Check in-akustik, I like the Air series.

https://www.in-akustik.de/en/cables-and-accessories/


----------



## Quince

iamdman said:


> Any good RCA interconnect cable recommendation to connect from TT2 DAC to Euforia AE amp? I have used moon audio interconnects before and liked them but their silver dragon RCA interconnects are like $500 as I see on their site now and wondering if there is anything better in that price range or less?
> 
> Thanks


I am using Lavri Grand and Master for almost all my audio signal cabling (interconnects, speaker, and headphone cables minus Final D8000pro), very happy with the build quality, sound, and service.


----------



## iamdman

Got AE delivered and it has bought my HD800s alive! Yet to have any long burn in but seeing marked improvement overall - sub bass, instrument separation (much improved soundstage) and more importantly gone are the harshness that I used to experience with 800s. Yet to use ZMF VC on it but been enjoying 800s!

Have been using TT2 amp section and been quite happy but this is on another level to me. I also switched between TT2 and AE to see if its just a placebo since my brain knows its a new amp and I should like it lol, but each time I could clearly hear the difference...excited to know what's waiting once I get to burn then like 100 hours or so!.

One thing I noticed is when powering on and off there is a very faint, I mean very faint (you have to really pay attention and have your ears close to the AE amp) what I can describe like mechanical noise and it looks to me like it's the tubes getting on /off. Is that something to expect? Just want to make sure this is not any potential issue down the lane...


----------



## iamdman

I am new to world of tube amps and have been reading up on them. There are quite some discussions around not using the amp right away after turning on and that it should be let it warm up for ew minutes. What's the consensus on AE? If it needs to be warmed up every time after turning on how much time do you all give for it to warm up? 

I tend to turn it off if I don't plan on using it for next 30 min and I am stepping away from it..but doing everytime when turning on is going to be a pain, but guess that's what it is as I want to extend the life of tubes as much as possible.

Thanks


----------



## LoryWiv

I am not aware of any harm in listening immediately after switching on but my experience is sound may be more true to optimal capabilities after 30 minutes or so. In addition, my understanding is that if amp. is in a well-ventilated, not overly warm room it can be left on for at least 6 hours or so with no downside except perhaps a few hours less of tube life. Just my 2 cents as a fellow Euforia AE owner and prior Elise owner. Interested in the views of others, of course.


----------



## BrainSalat (Nov 15, 2022)

Yes I can confirm what @LoryWiv said. Because of the nature of the vacuum tubes that work with filaments at higher temperatures, tube amp needs a warm up time so that the tubes reach its nominal operation point when temperature stabilize. However this doesn't mean you cannot use the tube amp right away, but that the optimal sound quality is reached after that.


----------



## smutnyjoe

Hi, I’m completely new in the tube world and I’m thinking about buying a Feliks Euforia amp. It would be paired with Chord TT2 or holo audio spring 3 KTE. I’d like to ask you if there are any noticeable sonic differences between standard and anniversary editions?


----------



## ThanatosVI

smutnyjoe said:


> Hi, I’m completely new in the tube world and I’m thinking about buying a Feliks Euforia amp. It would be paired with Chord TT2 or holo audio spring 3 KTE. I’d like to ask you if there are any noticeable sonic differences between standard and anniversary editions?


Thr Anniversary Edition is warmer with more musicality while the regular Euforia is leaner and more detail orientiert.


----------



## iamdman

LoryWiv said:


> I am not aware of any harm in listening immediately after switching on but my experience is sound may be more true to optimal capabilities after 30 minutes or so. In addition, my understanding is that if amp. is in a well-ventilated, not overly warm room it can be left on for at least 6 hours or so with no downside except perhaps a few hours less of tube life. Just my 2 cents as a fellow Euforia AE owner and prior Elise owner. Interested in the views of others, of course.





BrainSalat said:


> Yes I can confirm what @LoryWiv said. Because of the nature of the vacuum tubes that work with filaments at higher temperatures, tube amp needs a warm up time so that the tubes reach its nominal operation point when temperature stabilize. However this doesn't mean you cannot use the tube amp right away, but that the optimal sound quality is reached after that.



Appreciate the inputs! The amp is very well ventilated and I will plan on using right away for now.


----------



## alekc

smutnyjoe said:


> Hi, I’m completely new in the tube world and I’m thinking about buying a Feliks Euforia amp. It would be paired with Chord TT2 or holo audio spring 3 KTE. I’d like to ask you if there are any noticeable sonic differences between standard and anniversary editions?



@smutnyjoe I confirm what @ThanatosVI said about difference but considering the SQ of TT2 I would also consider Envy while it is in different price league, it is also sonically at least level above Euforia AE. I've found only one track so far that sounds better on Euforia AE than on Envy. However I can understand both budget and space limitation. Euforia nicely fits TT2 ot KTE design in black and shares similar dimensions with TT2.  Overall Euforia AE is great amp IMHO and you should be very happy with it. In fact if I had enough space and budget I would consider getting both: Euforia AE and Envy for different setups.


----------



## smutnyjoe (Nov 16, 2022)

Thanks! To be honest, I really like the sound from TT2 (I just want to have a choice: super speed and clarity or adding some tubeness) . And I feel I have too much gear on my desk: TT2, Spring3KTE, v550, ifi zen stream, 2 or 3 headphones, and soon a tube amp. I've always been a minimalist  That's why I thought I will reduce it to TT2 and Euforia, which has a small footprint in terms of tube amps. TT2 fits in my backpack so I can take it with me when I travel for a longer time, and TT2+Euforia (probably Evo version) would be my stationary setup.

I really like Envy. I've seen it two weeks ago on an audio show in Warsaw. It was beautiful, produced excellent sound, and had a lot of power. I could even buy it. But instead, I could buy Euforia + some stabilized rarity ZMF Atrium during ZMF November and I will be probably happier with a new TOTL headphone. But Envy looks like a long-term plan for me if I get in love with tubes!


----------



## incredulousity

I’d reduce it to Spring 3 KTE and Euforia,  unless you really need the SS amp in the TT2,  but some people really like the TT2 DAC, so if that’s you, the choice is made. Spring 3 KTE with Euforia is an insanely great combination.


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## BrainSalat (Nov 16, 2022)

I tested the Euforia AE with the Spring3 KTE and the TT2 before I got my Spring3 KTE.

Both are great DACs and made sing the Euforia, but they have slightly different presentations. In the end is just a matter of taste. To me the Spring3+Euforia combo sounded more "analog" and realistic, however the TT2+Euforia combo was also very enjoyable.

Now, if you listen to DSD material then the Spring 3 KTE was noticeable superior to the TT2 in DSD native playback.
Second thing I observed was that while TT2 is a marvelous DAC, I didn't find its headphone amp to be special, so I thought that for that price difference (1.5K between Spring3 and TT2) I could get the Spring3 KTE + a way better SS amp. I actually already tested the Spring3 KTE with some SS amps and I could confirm that.


----------



## smutnyjoe (Nov 17, 2022)

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate your suggestions.
To be honest, I'm one of these people that really like both TT2 as a DAC and as a combo. And since it's ok for me as a combo, it can work as a transportable device as well (which can't be said about spring3 and Euforia  ).
I really like them both and TT2 wins only because of these additional factors (having a SS amp that I like and a small footprint). Moreover, I don't look at the price so much as I've already paid for them both lol
But still hesitating, They are both great DACs but different. I just don't need them both, and even don't want them both. But that's me; others would probably like to keep them both. I just don't like too many choices/too much gear on my desk.

I just want something different than for example TT2's amp. That's why I got Violectric v550 a year ago. To be honest, it's a really great chain, adding some bottom weight and musicality ("adding some coloration" like a true Chord fan could say, haha, but it's true that the perfect clarity decreases slightly).
To be honest, I like this pairing so much with my new Verite Closed (my first ZMFs) that I don't know how it could be any better  but people keep saying that ZMFs pair so well with OTL tube amps so I thought: why not? And decided to experiment and buy my first tube amp.

I've heard that S3 is better at DSD but I listen 99% of the time using Tidal ( /roon)


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## BrainSalat (Nov 17, 2022)

For similar reasons I love my ADI2. A small black box that I can put in my rucksack and enjoy music from everywhere so I don't feel too much Euforia withdrawal. .
I also use TIDAL through Roon but for my favorites albums I prefer digital versions for highest SQ (AFZ, MFSL UHQR, DSD, etc), specially after TIDAL introduced MQA. Starting with why do we need today a lossy audio format when we can stream 4K-HDR/multichannel video/audio?.


----------



## incredulousity

BrainSalat said:


> For similar reasons I love my ADI2. A small black box that I can put in my rucksack and enjoy music from everywhere so I don't feel too much Euforia withdrawal. .
> I also use TIDAL through Roon but for my favorites albums I prefer digital versions for highest SQ (AFZ, MFSL UHQR, DSD, etc), specially after TIDAL introduced MQA. Starting with why do we need today a lossy audio format when we can stream 4K-HDR/multichannel video/audio?.





BrainSalat said:


> For similar reasons I love my ADI2. A small black box that I can put in my rucksack and enjoy music from everywhere so I don't feel too much Euforia withdrawal. .
> I also use TIDAL through Roon but for my favorites albums I prefer digital versions for highest SQ (AFZ, MFSL UHQR, DSD, etc), specially after TIDAL introduced MQA. Starting with why do we need today a lossy audio format when we can stream 4K-HDR/multichannel video/audio?.


I’m always keeping an ADI2 for the same reason. It’s my 3rd DAC, after May and Spring. I used to have three of them.


----------



## LifeAspect

Is the current Euforia worth the upgrade from the Elise for mainly ZMF headphones? Considering the upgrade but I don't know if the upgrade between the two is worth it or if I should get the AE instead..


----------



## LoryWiv

Quick question re. Euforia's auto-bias: does this mean that matched power tubes are of lesser importance as each will be biased optimally by this circuitry?


----------



## Magol79

I know that Feliks just released the Evo. But I am not buying a 6AS7G amp again. I already sold my Euforia a while ago. 

But is there any news or rumours about Feliks releasing a lower priced OTC amp? Something for the EL34/KT88 family maybe?


----------



## incredulousity

That would be lower priced than Envy, but likely not below Evo.

Agree about 6AS7. Envy is calling! (dangerous siren song)


----------



## ThanatosVI

Magol79 said:


> I know that Feliks just released the Evo. But I am not buying a 6AS7G amp again. I already sold my Euforia a while ago.
> 
> But is there any news or rumours about Feliks releasing a lower priced OTC amp? Something for the EL34/KT88 family maybe?


Many of us urged them to release an Envy lite with KT88/EL34 tubes.

Actually something like that is missing in their lineup as well, so chances probably aren't half bad.

However I wouldn't expect it anytime soon, since they are really busy with the current mass of orders


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

The Cayin Ha 3a is really making alarm at the moment.
It offers great tube rolling possibilities with 6v6 tubes and 12au7 plus retifer tube.

Works very well with most headphones as you can read and have heard from first hand sources.

The price is also well below that of the Euforia.

Personally, I think it's a pity that Feliks didn't deliver an update for the Elise and Euforia that would make sense with the tubes.
Even if it otherwise offers such great possibilities.
I probably wouldn't have minded much if it had a different sound from the original Euforia.
Although it could probably only have been better.

Just a tip on the side,it's worth replacing the Mundorf capacitors on the Euforia with better ones it doesn't have to be Vcap,there are great capacitors from Audio Note,Duelund.
The conversion to Vcap got the last out of my tubes and amplifiers and I hardly buy any more tubes lately, although there is still some room for improvement with the 5998 tungsols and various 6v6,Kt 88,6SN7.

From this point of view, the Euforia/Elise is still one of the best Otl on the market, simply because of the variety of tubes you can use, even with adapters.


----------



## LoryWiv

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> The Cayin Ha 3a is really making alarm at the moment.
> It offers great tube rolling possibilities with 6v6 tubes and 12au7 plus retifer tube.
> ...


For those of us who are technically challenged, is replacing the capacitors a straightforward process?


----------



## Deleeh

On the 6SN7 socket, it is quite easy to make yourself with a little skill.
You don't have to be a professional, just know how to solder and have a little sensitivity.

On the 6AS7G socket, I had an electrician do it, but it is more complicated and beyond my own abilities to do it myself.
It was important to me personally that it was done properly and not bungled, even by my own hand.

My impression is that it is more worthwhile on the 6SN7 socket than on the 6AS7G socket.
The Vcap TFTF did a great job on the 6SN7,on the 6AS7G with the Vcap Odam it just rounded it out,brought it up a notch overall.so a little more polish if you will,in definition,richer low end,a little more warmth and texture as well as contour and also made some areas of the high end better.
With the Mundorf, I occasionally had a distortion in the treble, which has since disappeared.


----------



## Rins

I am looking for a recommendation on a power cable for the Euforia AE.


----------



## swissheadphonelover

Rins said:


> I am looking for a recommendation on a power cable for the Euforia AE.


Isotek sequel


----------



## Rins

Thanks for the power cable recommendation.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

hypnos1 said:


> Hi mordy.
> 
> Well done for keeping hold of your Euforia...you're in for a real treat with these KT tubes lol!
> 
> ...


Hi! Where did you get the the larger gold plated bases? Visually it’s much better than the smaller black ones …


----------



## incredulousity

I used to love that combination on Euforia AE. Now I use the quad of GL KT88s as drivers on Envy, with different adapters from @Deyan.


----------



## ThanatosVI

incredulousity said:


> I used to love that combination on Euforia AE. Now I use the quad of GL KT88s as drivers on Envy, with different adapters from @Deyan.


Too bad that they need external current. 
Drop in replacement as in the Euforia would be cool 😎


----------



## incredulousity

External current is easy. A 6.3V 6A LPS is all you need. I had @Deyan make me the whole setup. I’m in the process of adapting a Hypsos to the same task, as it will look better.


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## myphone (Dec 17, 2022)

LoryWiv said:


> For those of us who are technically challenged, is replacing the capacitors a straightforward process?


I have replaced all resistors and capacitors in the signal path: Texas Instrument TX2575 naked resistors at volume control (shunt) and between 6SN7/6AS7; Vcap cuTF capacitors before 6SN7, and film capacitors at output (replacing the large electrolytic capacitors).

As Deleeh stated, replacing the 6SN7 capacitors (and resistors) is quite straight forward; Replacing the output capacitors is difficult.

The capacitors replacement makes huge improvement in sound quality. Resistor replacement is not as significant

I am waiting for Mundoff EVO Oil supreme capacitors (on back-order in Germany for months) to replace current WIMA film output capacitors, hoping for further improvement.

My Euforia is a first production unit. I have only used factory recommended tube types (6SN7/6AS7 family), and high impedance phones.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Hi! Where did you get the the larger gold plated bases? Visually it’s much better than the smaller black ones …


Does anyone know where can a get this large gold base adapters for the KT88 ?


----------



## hypnos1

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Hi! Where did you get the the larger gold plated bases? Visually it’s much better than the smaller black ones …


Hi Francisco...and a warm HELLO! to all my old pals here, not to mention new owners. 

Sorry for the late reply but am not too well at the moment - Covid, I'm afraid. And that's after four jabs, for Heaven's sake lol!! But should be able to get back to you in the next few days...hopefully!

And yes, the larger gold-plated bases look MUCH better as far as I'm concerned . Cheers for now...CJ


----------



## barontan2418

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Francisco...and a warm HELLO! to all my old pals here, not to mention new owners.
> 
> Sorry for the late reply but am not too well at the moment - Covid, I'm afraid. And that's after four jabs, for Heaven's sake lol!! But should be able to get back to you in the next few days...hopefully!
> 
> And yes, the larger gold-plated bases look MUCH better as far as I'm concerned . Cheers for now...CJ


Hope you feel better soon H1.👋


----------



## Deleeh

I bought some as Tubesocket on Aliexpress.
I could have saved myself the field, they were of poor quality.
Have some made by Deyan, they work too, the tubes have a very good hold, and it's done right.
The look is just black but you can live with that most of the time.

You can also buy some on Ebay, 6sn7 to KT88 etc., but as I said, they all come from China and are not well made.

The ones I bought had a very bad hold that the tube had wobbled and caused undesirable things.

@Rins
About the cables, you can actually buy anything you like.
The Audioquest Nrz Z cable is a bit darker in sound.
The Isotek are also good and are a bit brighter.
Depends a bit on the cable, copper tends to the warmer side, silver tends to the brighter.
I have installed the Panega with gold plug, which is made of copper, and I am satisfied with it.
In terms of budget, I'm looking for no more than $80, max $100.
The cable should have a good connector, be Hf and Em protected and, depending on the material, copper or silver, which is what you get for the field in this price range.
Anything else is too much money.
The same with Rca cable, if you are looking for it.
Audioquest usually needs 100h burn in time,Isotek too but much less.
I can't say exactly for the others.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Deleeh said:


> I bought some as Tubesocket on Aliexpress.
> I could have saved myself the field, they were of poor quality.
> Have some made by Deyan, they work too, the tubes have a very good hold, and it's done right.
> The look is just black but you can live with that most of the time.
> ...


 Thanks, don't mind the black  but I'm looking for the large base same size as the KT88. Visually a lot better !! Don't like the look small adapter with large tube above...


----------



## LoryWiv

hypnos1 said:


> Hi Francisco...and a warm HELLO! to all my old pals here, not to mention new owners.
> 
> Sorry for the late reply but am not too well at the moment - Covid, I'm afraid. And that's after four jabs, for Heaven's sake lol!! But should be able to get back to you in the next few days...hopefully!
> 
> And yes, the larger gold-plated bases look MUCH better as far as I'm concerned . Cheers for now...CJ


Feel better soon @hypnos1. May a joyous holiday season await you.


----------



## YungOmbat

hypnos1 said:


> WELCOME to all owners and followers of F-A's Elise Tube Amp who are now interested in moving up into even more lofty territory...with their new OTL amp, EUFORIA.
> 
> A warm welcome also to those perhaps new to the Feliks-Audio name...in addition to the very successful 'Elise', their previous budget-price 'Espressivo' is currently undergoing a resurgence in interest and gaining high praise in reviews. I shall be posting links to threads and other info that might prove interesting for background research later on, and at the end of this first post...which I shall keep updated as often as possible.
> 
> ...


wonder how those solder joints dont melt with all that heat


----------



## Koren

Hello. Does anyone have euphoria evo? does it work well with 18-50ohm planar headphones? what is the quality of the set lights? what kind of sound characterizes them? which dac device should be paired with?


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## Francisco Evangelista (Dec 19, 2022)

Koren said:


> Hello. Does anyone have euphoria evo? does it work well with 18-50ohm planar headphones? what is the quality of the set lights? what kind of sound characterizes them? which dac device should be paired with?


Hi, i have the Euforia Evo . I have try it with the audeze mm500 ( 18 ohms) no problems , still my top choice of pairing is the ZMFs. The Dac i use is Chord TT2/Mscaler and gives me a beautiful sound. Still on burn in period, but soundstage is big , mids are lush with a lot of air and Sparkle, as resolution! Good low end but miss a little impact. is one of the tube amps i have the pleasure of listening that is closer to Solid state, very linear... maybe the stock tubes...  imaging is the best i have heard on tubes!

I have on order the E6SN7 Linlai (substitute for the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold”), to see if i get more impact and warm sound. but as i said the tubes or not full Burned. Maybe they will gain more bass.. My Feliks Echo2 punches harder but of course as a lot less resolution soundstage and so on...

I´m very Happy with the Euforia EVO , is one of my amps that provides me more resolution and detail , for sure the amp that presents more Sound stage of my gear!!


----------



## Koren

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Hi, i have the Euforia Evo . I have try it with the audeze mm500 ( 18 ohms) no problems , still my top choice of pairing is the ZMFs. The Dac i use is Chord TT2/Mscaler and gives me a beautiful sound. Still on burn in period, but soundstage is big , mids are lush with a lot of air and Sparkle, as resolution! Good low end but miss a little impact. is one of the tube amps i have the pleasure of listening that is closer to Solid state, very linear... maybe the stock tubes...  imaging is the best i have heard on tubes!
> 
> I have on order the E6SN7 Linlai (substitute for the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold”), to see if i get more impact and warm sound. but as i said the tubes or not full Burned. Maybe they will gain more bass.. My Feliks Echo2 punches harder but of course as a lot less resolution soundstage and so on...
> 
> I´m very Happy with the Euforia EVO , is one of my amps that provides me more resolution and detail , for sure the amp that presents more Sound stage of my gear!!


do you think it can technically compete with the violectric hpa v550 device?  speed, resolution, imaging, details?  if the low range of the Euphoria Evo is not so striking, then it is worth pairing it with an AK DAC chip device, the lows of which are raised a bit and are quite hot, I think?


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Koren said:


> do you think it can technically compete with the violectric hpa v550 device?  speed, resolution, imaging, details?  if the low range of the Euphoria Evo is not so striking, then it is worth pairing it with an AK DAC chip device, the lows of which are raised a bit and are quite hot, I think?


VS my Ferrum oor + Hypsos if to just enjoy music I prefer the Euforia Evo by a long way!! The resolution is impressive for a tube amp! 

Don’t know the AK dac chip , but if you say it has a good low end it’s a good pairing for sure.


----------



## swissheadphonelover

Koren said:


> do you think it can technically compete with the violectric hpa v550 device?  speed, resolution, imaging, details?


It can even compete with Lake People Niimbus US4 Pro. I have both and I often prefer my Euforia (old model not EVO) over the Niimbus for its more relaxed and slightly warmer sound without losing details and transparency. Sonical performance of the Euforia depends quite a bit on the tubes you are using.


----------



## hypnos1

A big hello to you @barontan2418 and @LoryWiv , and thanks for your kind words. Glad to say I seem to be well on the mend at the moment - thank goodness! ...hope you guys are keeping OK in these turbulent times lol . I certainly do miss all my old comrades here...but have some wonderful memories. Happy also to say I've _finally_ got my (now SS) system sounding just how I like it, after MUCH tweaking with hyper-spec DIY cables - Neotech UP-OCC silver _and_ copper wires (both solid) and of dual construction... and for all power cables as well as interconnects(!). But the last BIG leap came via changing source from Naim then Antipodes DX server playback to a Denon DCD 1600NE (SA)CD player (modded with vibration/sound-deadening mat plus upgraded fuses). In fact, can't even go back to any other music source now!!

And hello again @Francisco Evangelista . I undertstand your aesthetic sense re. tube adapters...most don't do much for me either I'm afraid lol . But if they do the job reliably, I suppose there's not much choice...apart from making them oneself!! For my own use I personally adapted the tube bases themselves, thereby eliminating the additional socket stage...especially useful when the new base is wider than usual (as with the KT88)  :




(ps. for any DIYers, it looks like these particular bases (from China) are now only available in larger batches, but other red bakelite versions can be had in smaller amounts).

(pps. I may well be moving on this pair of Reissue Gold Lions in the New Year).

@YungOmbat ...yes, Euforia can get quite warm, but haven't heard of any solder melting lol!! . 

While on this subject of heat, a very welcome added benefit of most of the 'alternative' tubes I adapted for use in Elise, then Euforia was that they had the amps running MUCH cooler, but were never officially endorsed by FA alas . Given how well the KT family especially performed in their circuitry - and without untoward circumstances, I wondered how difficult it would be to tweak the configuration just a _bit_ closer to KT spec, still without hitting anywhere near their full potential  . But perhaps easier said than done lol... Then there'd be chassis changes...??... Ah well, sigh...

Anyway, to finish, may I just wish you all...    *A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!**......CHEERS!....*


----------



## Koren

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Hi, i have the Euforia Evo . I have try it with the audeze mm500 ( 18 ohms) no problems , still my top choice of pairing is the ZMFs. The Dac i use is Chord TT2/Mscaler and gives me a beautiful sound. Still on burn in period, but soundstage is big , mids are lush with a lot of air and Sparkle, as resolution! Good low end but miss a little impact. is one of the tube amps i have the pleasure of listening that is closer to Solid state, very linear... maybe the stock tubes...  imaging is the best i have heard on tubes!
> 
> I have on order the E6SN7 Linlai (substitute for the PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold”), to see if i get more impact and warm sound. but as i said the tubes or not full Burned. Maybe they will gain more bass.. My Feliks Echo2 punches harder but of course as a lot less resolution soundstage and so on...
> 
> I´m very Happy with the Euforia EVO , is one of my amps that provides me more resolution and detail , for sure the amp that presents more Sound stage of my gear!!


what difference did you hear in the case of the audeze mm500 when it was used with the euforia evo and when it was used with a solid state drive amplifier?


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

hypnos1 said:


> A big hello to you @barontan2418 and @LoryWiv , and thanks for your kind words. Glad to say I seem to be well on the mend at the moment - thank goodness! ...hope you guys are keeping OK in these turbulent times lol . I certainly do miss all my old comrades here...but have some wonderful memories. Happy also to say I've _finally_ got my (now SS) system sounding just how I like it, after MUCH tweaking with hyper-spec DIY cables - Neotech UP-OCC silver _and_ copper wires (both solid) and of dual construction... and for all power cables as well as interconnects(!). But the last BIG leap came via changing source from Naim then Antipodes DX server playback to a Denon DCD 1600NE (SA)CD player (modded with vibration/sound-deadening mat plus upgraded fuses). In fact, can't even go back to any other music source now!!
> 
> And hello again @Francisco Evangelista . I undertstand your aesthetic sense re. tube adapters...most don't do much for me either I'm afraid lol . But if they do the job reliably, I suppose there's not much choice...apart from making them oneself!! For my own use I personally adapted the tube bases themselves, thereby eliminating the additional socket stage...especially useful when the new base is wider than usual (as with the KT88)  :
> 
> ...


Hi, Thanks for the reply, hope your feeling better! 

I have found this ring covers i think will do the trick... this way i can use and hide the smaller adapter


----------



## Francisco Evangelista (Dec 20, 2022)

Koren said:


> what difference did you hear in the case of the audeze mm500 when it was used with the euforia evo and when it was used with a solid state drive amplifier?


Stage opens up quite bit , the highs are not so pricing mids are foward but smooth. low end is also a lot better , but for my taste the MM500 lacks a bit in quantity... also warmer with the Euforia more lush!


----------



## Koren (Dec 20, 2022)

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Stage opens up quite bit , the highs are not so pricing mids are foward but smooth. low end is also a lot better , but for my taste the MM500 lacks a bit in quantity... also warmer with the Euforia more lush!


With which solid-state amplifier did you specifically experience this difference?Wasn't the dynamics, impact, frequency response bad on the Euphoria?


----------



## LoryWiv (Dec 21, 2022)

Koren said:


> With which solid-state amplifier did you specifically experience this difference?Wasn't the dynamics, impact, frequency response bad on the Euphoria?


I run Euforia anniversary edition with MM-500 and I'm very very pleased. Even though they are low impedance planars they have high sensitivity and in corresponding with Lucasz of Feliks Audio he indicated that would be the key parameter. Euforia is also somewhat unique for an OTL amp. in being able to run low impedance, high sensitivity planars, but my own experience is very positive. Given the similarities between EVO and euforia I went anticipate similarly excellent results.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Koren said:


> With which solid-state amplifier did you specifically experience this difference?Wasn't the dynamics, impact, frequency response bad on the Euphoria?


I have the Ferrum oor+Hypsos as a solid state and also the TT2 to compare. And yes the only thing I could give to solid state is impact… still not by much , it’s a different presentation


----------



## Koren (Dec 21, 2022)

Does anyone use a lower impedance dynamic or higher sensitivity (around 100 db) planar driver headphones for the euforia, 20th, or Evo amplifier?

and my other question would be what kind of quality the factory lamps in Euforia Evo  are considered in the current lamp market.

how many hours do the stock tubes last before they need to be replaced?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Koren said:


> Does anyone use a lower impedance dynamic or higher sensitivity (around 100 db) planar driver headphones for the euforia, 20th, or Evo amplifier?
> 
> and my other question would be what kind of quality the factory lamps in Euforia Evo  are considered in the current lamp market.


Many use the Meze Empyrean and Elite as great pairing of high sensitivity planars.

The PSVane 6SN7s are pretty solid among current production tubes. There are a few great 6SN7 NOS tubes available though as upgrades.

The 6N13s NOS tubes are also solid BUT there are like no options left to roll. Either super expensive or just not available. 

For that reason many use adapters for use with EL34/KT88 tube Familien, which works great on the Euforia and Elise models


----------



## Koren

Francisco Evangelista said:


> I have the Ferrum oor+Hypsos as a solid state and also the TT2 to compare. And yes the only thing I could give to solid state is impact… still not by much , it’s a different presentation


do you think the euforia Evo + TT2 dac is better in everything than the $6000 TT2 as a dac+amp used alone, except dynamic punch?  this seems so incredible.  Is the euforia Evo that good, or is the TT2 overpriced?


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Koren said:


> do you think the euforia Evo + TT2 dac is better in everything than the $6000 TT2 as a dac+amp used alone, except dynamic punch?  this seems so incredible.  Is the euforia Evo that good, or is the TT2 overpriced?


They have different presentations.. the TT2 combo is more analytical linear with less sound stage . You gain more deep( 3D effect) and larger stage with a warmer and lush presentation with TT2 + Euforia Evo.

TT2 is not cheap but i can´t find any DAC/amp in the market that offers what the TT2 can do for the price.


----------



## Koren (Dec 22, 2022)

I think it's good to pair otl tube amplifiers with a dac device that can deliver a high signal level via rca (2.5V-3V) so that the tube amp is as loud as possible, with little distortion, (0.0001) and which has high crosstalk? (138db) like this  the chord qutest.  or is there a better one in this category, or even cheaper?  I think the most important parameter for the dac device in this case is the high output power, and it is worth going towards the usual 2V.  And that it should be technically the best possible, mainly on rca output, since all euphoria models only have rca input.


----------



## incredulousity

Koren said:


> I think it's good to pair otl tube amplifiers with a dac device that can deliver a high signal level via rca (2.5V-3V) so that the tube amp is as loud as possible, with little distortion, (0.0001) and which has high crosstalk? (138db) like this  the chord qutest.  or is there a better one in this category, or even cheaper?  I think the most important parameter for the dac device in this case is the high output power, and it is worth going towards the usual 2V.  And that it should be technically the best possible, mainly on rca output, since all euphoria models only have rca input.


Holo May and Spring 3, and RME ADI2 DAC FS can all output on the high side, and worked well with my Euforia AE when I had it.


----------



## Koren

Roughly how long does it take for a new euforia to set in, and for the stock tubs to reach their maximum performance?


----------



## incredulousity

The PSVane tubes take >100hrs


----------



## OctavianH

incredulousity said:


> The PSVane tubes take >100hrs


They take a lot and the road is not linear. One day you'll love them and other day you'll want to throw them away. Patience is the key to these. Same for Philips EL3N, never judge them before at least 100 hrs.


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## hypnos1

OctavianH said:


> They take a lot and the road is not linear. One day you'll love them and other day you'll want to throw them away. Patience is the key to these. Same for Philips EL3N, never judge them before at least 100 hrs.


Ah OH...the same goes for a good few other tubes methinks - especially those 'alternative' ones I adapted for use in FA's circuits lol!  And very possibly a factor in their benchmark testing of a lovely pair of converted EL11s I sent them alas? 

I would add that it's not just tubes that can make tubedom a love/hate relationship...hence my eventual need for a 'quieter' life in SS land!! Luckily, this can indeed be coaxed into also enjoying the more positive attributes of tubes/vinyl, without so much 'angst' lol...but it ain't easy!!...

ps. Hi, by the way...CJ


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## JBOOGIE86

Having had the Euforia Mk2 in the past and absolutely loving it, would the AE version be a clear upgrade? 

I'm back on the market after regrettably selling my MK2 but I'm curious as to the AE version is the way to go. Is there a trade off with the AE? From what I gather here is that the AE is a bit more smooth/warm than the MK2. I'm trying to snag either one since it's on sale and seem to be discontinued. 

Any insight will help, thank you 🙏


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## Koren

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Having had the Euforia Mk2 in the past and absolutely loving it, would the AE version be a clear upgrade?
> 
> I'm back on the market after regrettably selling my MK2 but I'm curious as to the AE version is the way to go. Is there a trade off with the AE? From what I gather here is that the AE is a bit more smooth/warm than the MK2. I'm trying to snag either one since it's on sale and seem to be discontinued.
> 
> Any insight will help, thank you 🙏


The Evo has been released since then, it's worth buying.


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## ThanatosVI

JBOOGIE86 said:


> Having had the Euforia Mk2 in the past and absolutely loving it, would the AE version be a clear upgrade?
> 
> I'm back on the market after regrettably selling my MK2 but I'm curious as to the AE version is the way to go. Is there a trade off with the AE? From what I gather here is that the AE is a bit more smooth/warm than the MK2. I'm trying to snag either one since it's on sale and seem to be discontinued.
> 
> Any insight will help, thank you 🙏


The AE is a little smoother and warmer. 
The Mk.2 is the clearest (most solid state like) of the bunch.

The Evo (which replaced both) leans towards AE sound signature. 

All from what I read, I never heard them myself


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## BrainSalat

In this Euforia AE review, they compare and list the exactly differences between both models
https://www.headfonia.com/feliks-audio-euforia-ae-review/

I have never tried the MK2 so I could not compare them sonically but the AE comes with an extra feature, crossfeed (enabled through a switch in the back). While I really please to a have a crossfeed for headphones, specially with older recording, the one implemented in the Euforia AE is not that good and flexible compared the ones in my ADI2 PRO (best) or by software in Roon or Foobar.


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## tameral (Jan 3, 2023)

I was able to get a good pair of 5998 Tung Sol for my Euforia - these definitely shake things up in my set up and the stock drivers which pair very well with the stock power tubes, definitely need to be switched out now.


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## Deleeh (Jan 1, 2023)

Hello,
I also joined the 5998 club, got mine today.
Had some bad luck with the first set where lazy more than 6 months ago.
This time I was a bit luckier with the price too.

I just combined mine with the 6v6 Sylvania.
Later I want to try my 6SN7 Brimar gty.





There are many 6sn7 tubes out there,even at outrageous prices.
See if you can find a Vt 231 priced.
It depends on which direction you want to go, warm, neutral and which headphones you use in addition.

Personally, with the adapter to 6v6, I find the tubes better than the 6SN7, also in terms of price, there is still some room for manoeuvre.the Euforia plays a corner better with 6v6 tubes, surprisingly.


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## Koren

who uses euforia with which type of headphones?


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## Rins

Meze Empyrean + Focal Utopia


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## phila

Koren said:


> who uses euforia with which type of headphones?


I use my Euforia AE with Sennheiser HD800s Anniversary and Utopia 2022


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## alekc

@Koren  this is my list of cans I had pleasure listening to Euforia:

Meze Empyrean, Focal Clears (OG or MG), Focal Utopia, Audioquest NightOwl. All of those have something unique to offer and in case Focal Clears just think about a downgraded Utopia but for more than half the price. Focal Stellia should bebon the list too IMHO.


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## Koren

Rins said:


> Meze Empyrean + Focal Utopia


do you hear background noise, lack of dynamics, flatness, strangeness in the frequency range with these headphones, tied to euforia?


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## Koren

phila said:


> I use my Euforia AE with Sennheiser HD800s Anniversary and Utopia 2022


do you hear background noise, lack of dynamics, flatness, strangeness in the frequency range with these headphones, tied to euforia?


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## Koren

alekc said:


> @Koren  this is my list of cans I had pleasure listening to Euforia:
> 
> Meze Empyrean, Focal Clears (OG or MG), Focal Utopia, Audioquest NightOwl. All of those have something unique to offer and in case Focal Clears just think about a downgraded Utopia but for more than half the price. Focal Stellia should bebon the list too IMHO.


do you hear background noise, lack of dynamics, flatness, strangeness in the frequency range with these headphones, tied to euforia?


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## phila

Koren said:


> do you hear background noise, lack of dynamics, flatness, strangeness in the frequency range with these headphones, tied to euforia?


No, it's silent with great dynamics, never heard the Utopia that good before.


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## Deleeh

Koren said:


> who uses euforia with which type of headphones?


Currently Zmf Auteur OG, which is no longer available for purchase, only as a Classic version in the improved form of the OG.
Occasionally the Audeze Lcd 2 C.
Before that I had Fostex, which was also passable but not an end game.

Common are Zmf headphones,Hd 800,600,650,Meze Empyrean,Lcd X,Utopia,maybe one or the other Focal.


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## Quince

Koren said:


> who uses euforia with which type of headphones?


Euforia AE + Final D8000 pro / ZMF VC


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## UntilThen

In happier times.


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## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> In happier times.


What’s wrong with now? 😳🤔


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## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> What’s wrong with now? 😳🤔



Now is happiest.


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## LoryWiv

Koren said:


> who uses euforia with which type of headphones?


Euforia AE w/ZMF Auteur Classic, Focal Clear MG and latest addition, Audeze MM-500 currently getting most head time. Euforia AE is a unique OTL and wonderful in being able to drive high sensitivity planars like the MM-500 so nicely. Pairs very well!


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## msq123

Could someone please confirm if Evo has replaced both standard and AE because I still see AE on Feliks website, but just sold out? Assume they are working to finish Evo orders and will continue selling AE which doesn’t make much sense if Evo has almost same internals and also has XLR plus is cheaper.


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## Mattyjm

msq123 said:


> Could someone please confirm if Evo has replaced both standard and AE because I still see AE on Feliks website, but just sold out? Assume they are working to finish Evo orders and will continue selling AE which doesn’t make much sense if Evo has almost same internals and also has XLR plus is cheaper.


From what the guys @ Zepp told me, the Evo will replace the Euforia OG. It (Evo) has similar parts to the AE, but with more upgrades. The XLR output on the front is also for convenience; the amp is still single-ended interally. Not sure about the AE stuff, since i didn't ask but it seems to have been discontinued with the release of Evo, probably due to how similar both Euforias' are


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## Koren

How many hours does it take for a NEW Euforia device and the lights to break in? What specifically changes in the sound during the break-in period?


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## Koren

Koren said:


> How many hours does it take for a NEW Euforia device and the lights to break in? What specifically changes in the sound during the break-in period?


?


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## helljudgement

Koren said:


> How many hours does it take for a NEW Euforia device and the lights to break in? What specifically changes in the sound during the break-in period?


It shouldn't matter that much in the scheme of things. The key thing to note is your own listening experiences changes as your ears acclimate to your new gear. Just use it as you were with your older equipment and you might hear something that surprise you as log more hours. Whether that is due to the device burning in or the tubes or your own hearing it doesn't matter as long as it enhances your enjoyment so don't place too much emphasis on a particular number. It's a new amp and few people have heard it let alone own one. Note your own experiences and share it if you wish.


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## Kbeau

OK everyone...I just pulled the trigger on a Euforia AE... I have a ZMF Verite Closed... Am I in fact in for a treat...?


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## jonathan c

Kbeau said:


> OK everyone...I just pulled the trigger on a Euforia AE... I have a ZMF Verite Closed... Am I in fact in for a treat...?


A)  yes indeed!
B)  it’s not Halloween and it’s not a trick! 🤣


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## JBOOGIE86

Kbeau said:


> OK everyone...I just pulled the trigger on a Euforia AE... I have a ZMF Verite Closed... Am I in fact in for a treat...?


1000000000% you are. 

Euforia and ZMF's are a match made in heaven. 

Unfortunately I'm currently having to sell my recently purchased Euforia just incase anyone is interested


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## Kbeau

JBOOGIE86 said:


> 1000000000% you are.
> 
> Euforia and ZMF's are a match made in heaven.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm currently having to sell my recently purchased Euforia just incase anyone is interested


I was gonna buy yours! Lol.. I saw the AE and had to try it though. GLWS


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## maszynista1987 (Monday at 8:42 AM)

I did not expect that such cheap headphones, play so well with Euforia 
Great synergy.


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## Francisco Evangelista (Tuesday at 8:58 PM)

Koren said:


> ?


100h is a good mark, for both amp and tubes . But as said it's subjective... it will depend on many factors. Just change now the Psvane Cv181 T MII for a pair of Lin lai E6SN7 and I'm loving it!! I was missing a little warm and body in the Bass.. it's perfect now! The Euforia Evo is perfect for me, paired with both my ZMF VC and VO! The Lavricables on the ZMF is the cherry on top, super happy!!


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## Deleeh

Hello,

Congratulations and welcome to the Euforia Club, you 2.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Have fun with the Ae and Evo.👍😉👍😉

I use the Linlai every now and then and am always surprised by how profoundly they perform and I also agree with the shot of warmth and better bass definition compared to the Ps vane.

You don't have to worry about burning in.
The Ps Vane unfortunately have a bit of a tendency to be strong at times and weaken again in the burn in phase.
So far I have only had this with these tubes and no others, not even in the Nos range.

It is actually more important that the Euforia should not run for more than 8 hours at a time, and in summer make sure that there is enough air circulation.


By the way, I have a question for those who have been here for a while.
On the back of the Euforia OG it says that I should use a  
1.6 A T fuse.
I used a 1.25 A T fuse as standard, and I also used the same value for the Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 fuse.
Since I will be testing another fuse from a different manufacturer, I have to ask myself whether I should use a 1.25 A or 1.6 A T fuse.


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## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Congratulations and welcome to the Euforia Club, you 2.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
> Have fun with the Ae and Evo.👍😉👍😉
> ...


You should use a 1 6A fuse. 

Using a 1.25A instead will never harm the amp, since it will blow earlier than the 1 6A would.
It's possible that the 1 25A fuse will blow even tho the amp is operating as intended, depending on how tight they measured it. 

You should NEVER use a fuse higher than 1.6A since this coujd potentially harm the amp by not blowing the fuse when needed


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> You should use a 1 6A fuse.
> 
> Using a 1.25A instead will never harm the amp, since it will blow earlier than the 1 6A would.
> It's possible that the 1 25A fuse will blow even tho the amp is operating as intended, depending on how tight they measured it.
> ...


Hey,

All right, thanks for the clarification.🙏
I was thinking something like that.

I didn't even notice it myself the whole time 😇
It was only when the subject came up again that the fuse salesman said that 1.25 A was a bit tight for a tube amp and 1.6 A would be more ideal.

Luckily he hadn't sent the order yet, so we had another quick phone call and agreed on the 1.6A.
I hadn't actually intended to use more than 1.6 A, also for safety reasons.

The dealer himself was also slightly confused at first, and even advised against further consultation to clarify the matter beforehand.
I myself was not 100% sure what exactly belongs in there.
That's why I asked here again to be on the safe side.

Thank you very much again from a German colleague's point of view.
Let's have a beer sometime, I'm paying ✌️✌️✌️.


----------



## Francisco Evangelista

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Congratulations and welcome to the Euforia Club, you 2.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
> Have fun with the Ae and Evo.👍😉👍😉
> ...


Also thinking in changing the fuse on the Euforia Evo... i change the fuse to a SR Purple fuse on my Ferrum Hypsos and love the sound . Don't know if would bring something to the Evo also... On the Manual of the Euforia Evo it does not mention anything , for what fuse is being used .


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## incredulousity

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Also thinking in changing the fuse on the Euforia Evo... i change the fuse to a SR Purple fuse on my Ferrum Hypsos and love the sound . Don't know if would bring something to the Evo also... On the Manual of the Euforia Evo it does not mention anything , for what fuse is being used .


Euforia AE takes a 1.6. Envy Takes a 1.6. Probably new Euforia does too, but it should be in the manual, if that is available yet.

I like SR Purple in my Envy.


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## Deleeh (Wednesday at 6:51 PM)

Francisco Evangelista said:


> Also thinking in changing the fuse on the Euforia Evo... i change the fuse to a SR Purple fuse on my Ferrum Hypsos and love the sound . Don't know if would bring something to the Evo also... On the Manual of the Euforia Evo it does not mention anything , for what fuse is being used .


Look at the back of your Evo, it should say something there, a little above the mains plug.
230 V version and somewhere it should say 1.6 A T or similar.But look at what it says on your Evo. Apparently a 1.0 A T comes in for the European version.





I currently have the Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 Silver/Gold in it, which wasn't necessarily bad.
And one from Refine Audio is supposed to come in the next few days.

Here is a description of it:
Those who know the Ra cables know how little character they have of their own, but how they allow an enormously deep insight into the musical flow of the recording situation. The Ra fuses are sonically aligned with this ideal. This is not a correction fuse with a "wow" effect. Homogeneity, timing and energy is what is very clearly enhanced here.

I have heard a lot about the SR Purpel, but I am still sceptical about the price.
Can you justify it?

According to the dealer, the Refine has the advantage that you can stack it without bending the sound.
According to the other fuses, this is the case if you use too many of them.
I can confirm this a bit because I have the Hifi tuning Supreme 3 in the Dac and DDC with the gold Cardas and in the Euforia with the silver/gold.
Sometimes it sounded boring and a bit monotonous and then it worked again.


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## ColSaulTigh

Deleeh said:


> Look at the back of your Evo, it should say something there, a little above the mains plug.
> 230 V version and somewhere it should say 1.6 A T or similar.But look at what it says on your Evo. Apparently a 1.0 A T comes in for the European version.
> 
> 
> ...


I've used the Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 (which I agree was kinda "meh").  I have Synergistic Research Purple fuses in everything that takes them.  They are stacked in my Woo Audio WA6-SE/Musician Pegasus rigs.  So that's 2 fuses in the DACs (each) and one in each amplifier (for a total of 6), plus another one in my Woo WA5-LE (the Denafrips Pontus II doesn't use fuses).  I have no issues with sound distortion in any of my systems.  I do think they help with the fine tweaking of the sound, but I wouldn't say they're earth-shattering.  Worth it if you have the money to spend.  If it stretches your wallet, save the money and spend it on upgrading tubes or cables first.

IMO, YMMV


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## Deleeh (Wednesday at 7:44 PM)

ColSaulTigh said:


> I've used the Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 (which I agree was kinda "meh").  I have Synergistic Research Purple fuses in everything that takes them.  They are stacked in my Woo Audio WA6-SE/Musician Pegasus rigs.  So that's 2 fuses in the DACs (each) and one in each amplifier (for a total of 6), plus another one in my Woo WA5-LE (the Denafrips Pontus II doesn't use fuses).  I have no issues with sound distortion in any of my systems.  I do think they help with the fine tweaking of the sound, but I wouldn't say they're earth-shattering.  Worth it if you have the money to spend.  If it stretches your wallet, save the money and spend it on upgrading tubes or cables first.
> 
> IMO, YMMV


Yes, I agree, better to invest in cables and tubes first.
The fuse may subtly round off the rest.
The icing on the cake if you like 😁.

I find the silver Hifi Tuning much livelier than the gold one.
The bass definition is also better, but the punch is a bit more lacking.
The golden one is better at that, but I have the impression that it has phases where it is sometimes a bit too thick.

edit:
Here is something for those who operate Euforia with Kt 88.
The Egg Shape tube looks really good.
https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product-category/shop_by_tube_model/kt88_6550/

This is also a trustworthy dealer, I bought my 6SN7 Linlai there back when they were still unknown.


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## LoryWiv

Hi @Deleeh, agree the egg shaped Linlai KT88 is quite interesting appearance. have you used it in Euforia and if so, what are your impressions of it's sound characteristics?


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## Deleeh

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @Deleeh, agree the egg shaped Linlai KT88 is quite interesting appearance. have you used it in Euforia and if so, what are your impressions of it's sound characteristics?


Hey 
Unfortunately not yet.
I only saw them recently when I was surfing.
They would certainly be interesting.
I also have to see if I can use the adapters from Deyan that I have at home or if I need some more.

And I'll have to look again at the maximum ampere limit of the Euforia.

I will keep the tubes in mind.
If I should buy them, I will have them pre-recorded right away.
It's a very nice service they offer.


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## Koren

does the amplifier have to be taken apart to replace the fuse?


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## incredulousity

Koren said:


> does the amplifier have to be taken apart to replace the fuse?


no


----------

