# The future of FiiO's AMP&DAC --Written on the day when FiiO passed the MFi Certification Program



## JamesFiiO

The future of FiiO's AMP&DAC --Written on the day when FiiO passed the MFi Certification Program

Dear Respected Head-Fi Members,

Words could not express my appreciation to you. The Portable Headphone Amplifier section is where FiiO takes off. In this lovely forum, I spent a large amount of time communicating with you and got numerous ideas, inspiration and help from you. To be honest, we wouldn't be able to design and produce so many fantastic products to share with all of you without your sincere help.

Unfortunately, as some of you might know, I haven't been here to communicate with you for almost a year because of my health issues. On the other hand, as the company is growing faster and faster and our product line is expanding, I have to spend more time on the management of FiiO and the development of FiiO’s staffs. Therefore, I have little time here to communicate with you and I'm so sorry about this.
However, it doesn't mean that I'm alienated from you. Actually, I miss the happy time when we discussed about anything here.

However, at the end of the day we have to come back to reality. That's why I'm writing this post to share with you our future plans. Also it would be easier for me to answer all of your questions in this post.

Before getting into our future plans, I would like to share a good news with you. FiiO has successfully passed the MFI certification! Meanwhile we are submitting a good deal of product planning to Apple for certification. Now rumor has it that iPhone 7 will come without the 3.5mm headphone jack. So this good news of FiiO passing the MFi really comes at the right time as we can make some adjustments to our new products planning.
Below are our plans for our future products:

First of all, we think that we need to update all of our portable DACs to support decoding for Apple's devices.

Then we will update all of our portable AMP & DAC to support 192K/24bit sampling rates and be certificated with "Hi-Res".

At last, we will define all of our portable DAC & Amp as Q series like Q1

In our future plan, our first target will be DAC & Amp including:

Q1(II): Q1 2nd Gen, MFi, "Hi-Res", brand new appearance design, similar output power and size with Q1

Q3 (actually the fifth generation product after E7, E07K, E17 and E17K): MFi supported, 192K/24bit format supported and DSD supported on the basis of E17K. Also it will adopt a brand new appearance design. Another good news to the Q3, the optical input will be back on Q3.

Q5: We will add decoding function for iPhone on the basis of our original plan. Besides, after in-depth research, we have decided to call off the WiFi connection because of its high power consumption.

Besides, to the iPhone users, we will have an i3 (the original iAMP3) in the future. There might be an i5 too. Different from the i3, i5 has no battery and will be powered by iPhone directly. Therefore, the target market and customer of these two products are different.

Since we need to hand in these product plans to Apple one by one and get down to real development after getting the permission from Apple. Then we need to pass the test and certification of Apple after we finish our development. So it will take a longer time to develop a new product than we used to and I couldn't have an accurate prediction of the availability of these products. But trust us, we're here to provide the best products to you.

In the end, I hope you can kindly understand that to produce any MFi products, we have to purchase lightning connector and related chips from Apple. Otherwise, it will be illegal for us to develop, produce and sell those MFi products. However, those components are quite expensive which will certainly lead to a little higher retail price of Q1, Q3 and Q5 to offset the increase of their cost.


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## hearmesnore

This is awesome news. I just registered because I literally just bought an e17k to use with my iPhone 6+ and had some questions, but it looks like I'm going to return it and wait to see what comes out this year. 
  
 One note: if there is anyway to consider re-adding optical-in to the "new e17k" device that is in planning, that would be amazing (especially for those of us using our portable amps for PC and phone).


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## ClieOS

jamesfiio said:


> .... FiiO has successfully passed the MFI certification! ...


 
FINALLY!!!


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## supplehope

This is really good news from Fiio, considering most of the portable DAC/Amp are still capped at mostly 44/16 bit for mobile devices (quite underwhelming, to be honest, but that's the limits of technology). Looking forward to those options soon.


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## RedJohn456

Bravo FiiO


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## x RELIC x

Congratulations James!!!


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## JamesFiiO

hearmesnore said:


> This is awesome news. I just registered because I literally just bought an e17k to use with my iPhone 6+ and had some questions, but it looks like I'm going to return it and wait to see what comes out this year.
> 
> One note: if there is anyway to consider re-adding optical-in to the "new e17k" device that is in planning, that would be amazing (especially for those of us using our portable amps for PC and phone).


 
  
  
   Sorry, there are not new E17K but change to Q3. and yes, the optical input will added to Q3.


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## JamesFiiO

clieos said:


> FINALLY!!!


 
  
  
 Thanks, it is not easy to us but finally.


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## hearmesnore

jamesfiio said:


> Sorry, there are not new E17K but change to Q3. and yes, the optical input will added to Q3.


 
  
 Thanks for your response, and that is amazing news regarding the optical! One other question: would you happen to know if you're going to stick with the PCM1798 DAC of the e18 or perhaps the PCM5102 DAC of the e17k?  What about the low pass OPA1622 (the stage is excellent and it's neutral, but still slightly warm - lots of color to the sound)?
  
Thanks so much again!


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## JamesFiiO

hearmesnore said:


> Thanks for your response, and that is amazing news regarding the optical! One other question: would you happen to know if you're going to stick with the PCM1798 DAC of the e18 or perhaps the PCM5102 DAC of the e17k?  What about the low pass OPA1622 (the stage is excellent and it's neutral, but still slightly warm - lots of color to the sound)?
> 
> Thanks so much again!


 
  
  
 sorry, the MFi change everything so we have to restart now, the detail has not decided yet cause we have not start from the ID. but basiclly it will use XMOS chip as USB receiver and we may change to AKM DAC chip , cause it can supports DSD and 384/32.


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## RedJohn456

jamesfiio said:


> sorry, the MFi change everything so we have to restart now, the detail has not decided yet cause we have not start from the ID. but basiclly it will use XMOS chip as USB receiver and we may change to AKM DAC chip , cause it can supports DSD and 384/32.


 

 Will the external shell be redesigned as well? A more premium external casing would be pretty great too   Whatever it is I am buying it day one lol. I love the E17K


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## JamesFiiO

yes


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## nealh

I just purchase and E17K Aspen 2.  Is the MFI certification for further products?  I was hoping to use the E17K with my iPhone 6 by purchasing a lightning to microusb adapter and then connecting this to a microusb to microusb cable
 iPhone 6--lightning: microusb adapter--microusb to microusb cable --E17k microusb port
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SZH730K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2691ZBIKXAV7P
  
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZYB44UW/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3UZZ0M53CX865
  
  
 or should I wait for the new product and return the E17K?


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## hearmesnore

nealh said:


> I just purchase and E17K Aspen 2.  Is the MFI certification for further products?  I was hoping to use the E17K with my iPhone 6 by purchasing a lightning to microusb adapter and then connecting this to a microusb to microusb cable
> iPhone 6--lightning: microusb adapter--microusb to microusb cable --E17k microusb port
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SZH730K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2691ZBIKXAV7P
> ...


 
  
 That's exactly what I did. I purchased an e17k that I returned. I want to wait to see what products they come out with by the end of the year and if anything, could always repurchase the e17k (hell - it might even be on sale). 
  
 edit: right now, you could use the L19 cable from penonaudio, but since Fiio was approved from MFI, they are likely going to make their own Lightning to USB MFI-certified cables. You can also grab one of those if you want to use the e17k


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## nealh

hearmesnore said:


> That's exactly what I did. I purchased an e17k that I returned. I want to wait to see what products they come out with by the end of the year and if anything, could always repurchase the e17k (hell - it might even be on sale).
> 
> edit: right now, you could use the L19 cable from penonaudio, but since Fiio was approved from MFI, they are likely going to make their own Lightning to USB MFI-certified cables. You can also grab one of those if you want to use the e17k




I feel like an idiot. I hate the buy and return. I thought I could use it with my iPhone 6. I sorry I opened it. I hate doing that to a merchant.


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## JamesFiiO

there are a cable called L19 ( you can google it there are sold in somewhere ), it is not a MFi products but it work and without the risk. 
  
 about the future products with MFi,  Apple have not decide what kind of product we can develop ( seems they are trying to ask all brand to make headphone with lightning connector but not extra DAC ).


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## JamesFiiO

here is the first MFi whic we are working in, it is a lightning DAC with 3.5mm output , includes a LAM (lightning audio module ). other products like the SONY PHA-2/3 are not permitted to develop right now.


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> here is the first MFi whic we are working in, it is a lightning DAC with 3.5mm output , includes a LAM (lightning audio module ). other products like the SONY PHA-2/3 are not permitted to develop right now.




Would that work with the current E17K if it gets approved. 

Thank you for the fast response to my question


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## estreeter

Great stuff, Fiio - not exactly bleeding edge, but all welcome incremental improvements. Interesting that there are no plans to send any of your DAPs or DACs to MQA Inc for their engineers to tinker with - probably a prudent move at this stage. Even though I dont own a single iDevice right now and I have little interest in 24/192 decoding, I look forward to the new range.


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## RedJohn456

estreeter said:


> Great stuff, Fiio - not exactly bleeding edge, but all welcome incremental improvements. Interesting that there are no plans to send any of your DAPs or DACs to MQA Inc for their engineers to tinker with - probably a prudent move at this stage. Even though I dont own a single iDevice right now and I have little interest in 24/192 decoding, I look forward to the new range.


 

 MQA is another proprietary codec and a greedy money grab. No one should be supporting them imo.


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## estreeter

redjohn456 said:


> MQA is another proprietary codec and a greedy money grab. No one should be supporting them imo.


 
  
 And Schiit seem to agree with you, as do others in the industry - I simply threw it out there as an example of another acronym that _some_ manufacturers will embrace in the hope of selling gear. Not sure what footprint a portable device will need to have to display 'DSD/DXD, MQA, Roon Ready and TIDAL Approved' in a font large enough to capture the eye of the passing audiophile


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## JamesFiiO

nealh said:


> Would that work with the current E17K if it gets approved.
> 
> Thank you for the fast response to my question


 
  
 now we named this as " i1 " and it will output audio signal from a 3.5mm socket so of course it can connect to E17k's aux in . but it can't make the e17 works as DAC for iDevice.


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## JamesFiiO

estreeter said:


> Great stuff, Fiio - not exactly bleeding edge, but all welcome incremental improvements. Interesting that there are no plans to send any of your DAPs or DACs to MQA Inc for their engineers to tinker with - probably a prudent move at this stage. Even though I dont own a single iDevice right now and I have little interest in 24/192 decoding, I look forward to the new range.


 
  
 usually we will support the universal standard . and seems we already have too many audio format.


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> now we named this as " i1 " and it will output audio signal from a 3.5mm socket so of course it can connect to E17k's aux in . but it can't make the e17 works as DAC for iDevice.




When will the i1 be available?


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## meetpatel3686

Finally...!!!
 Now I don't mind if apple removes the headphone jack.
 You got us covered @JamesFiiO,thanks...


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## TheEldestBoy

I see that your current line of portable AMP/DACs are recommended for driving headphones with an impedance range of 0 - 150 Ohms.
  
 Will any of your upcoming portable AMP/DAC's have enough power to drive cans as high as 300 Ohms?  (I'm think specifically of the Sennheiser HD 600/650).


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## JamesFiiO

theeldestboy said:


> I see that your current line of portable AMP/DACs are recommended for driving headphones with an impedance range of 0 - 150 Ohms.
> 
> Will any of your upcoming portable AMP/DAC's have enough power to drive cans as high as 300 Ohms?  (I'm think specifically of the Sennheiser HD 600/650).


 
  
 in fact, some of our amp, amp/dac are powerful enough to drive some 300 ohms headphone but we think it is better not to write it on the user manual and the website.


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## JamesFiiO

BTW, APPLE now asked all MFi products must includes a LAM ( lightning audio module ) , remote control keys and microphone if it has headphone out jack. it means that there will have not similar products like the SONY PHA-1/2/3 in the future.
  
  
 too sad.


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, APPLE now asked all MFi products must includes a LAM ( lightning audio module ) , remote control keys and microphone if it has headphone out jack. it means that there will have not similar products like the SONY PHA-1/2/3 in the future.
> 
> 
> too sad.




What does that mean for your i1?


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## estreeter

nealh said:


> What does that mean for your i1?


 
  
 Winter is coming and the Queen doesn't have a thing to wear ?


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, APPLE now asked all MFi products must includes a LAM ( lightning audio module ) , remote control keys and microphone if it has headphone out jack. it means that there will have not similar products like the SONY PHA-1/2/3 in the future.
> 
> 
> too sad.




Any more news?


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## JamesFiiO

currently we have some projects on the way as below:
  
 1, i1, which designed for iPhone 7 which removed the 3.5 mm headphone jack. we will send to Apple to test it and the ETA is Dec. it is connect to the lightning connector and provide a 3.5mm headphone
  
 out and microphone,  play/pause, vol+/-. 
  
 2, Q5, we redesign the shape of Q5 and still talk with Apple cause they told us that all the new MFi products must includes LAM ( lightning audio module ) so it can't supports Hi-Res music .
  
 3, A5, the upgrade model of E12/E12A, should be released next month.
  
  
  
 BTW, we are worry about the market of portable amp, dac , seems people will more like to buy DAPs


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> currently we have some projects on the way as below:
> 
> 1, i1, which designed for iPhone 7 which removed the 3.5 mm headphone jack. we will send to Apple to test it and the ETA is Dec. it is connect to the lightning connector and provide a 3.5mm headphone
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you very much
  
 I personally think DAC/AMP will still be important market, esp for the iPhone 7 users


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## JamesFiiO

nealh said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> I personally think DAC/AMP will still be important market, esp for the iPhone 7 users


 
  
  
 but we can't make the DAC/AMP similar with SONY PHA-2/3 which can supports 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.


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## twister6

jamesfiio said:


> currently we have some projects on the way as below:
> 
> 1, i1, which designed for iPhone 7 which removed the 3.5 mm headphone jack. we will send to Apple to test it and the ETA is Dec. it is connect to the lightning connector and provide a 3.5mm headphone
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, James, I do agree.  I see more interest in android-based DAPs, especially with a unique design/look to stand out from smartphones crowd (would love to see elements of your just announced final Q5 design implemented in 2nd gen of X7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  In my opinion the big issue with portable amps/dacs is still the lack of transport control.  After you mount the dac/amp to your phone with rubber bands which block your touch screen or even if you use a more permanent way to attach it to the case (why not implement one of those sticky gel pads?) - you still have to turn the screen on to play/pause and to skip/scroll.  I miss the days of E18 where you can be in full control of the playback without turning the phone on...


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## nealh

jamesfiio said:


> but we can't make the DAC/AMP similar with SONY PHA-2/3 which can supports 192/24 and DSD with iPhone.


 

 Bummer oh well. Sorry to hear that but I guess Apple is being a pain in the rear


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## JamesFiiO

twister6 said:


> Yes, James, I do agree.  I see more interest in android-based DAPs, especially with a unique design/look to stand out from smartphones crowd (would love to see elements of your just announced final Q5 design implemented in 2nd gen of X7
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 yes, that is the problem. and I can see this sub forum are losting people.


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## Joe Bloggs

jamesfiio said:


> yes, that is the problem. and I can see this sub forum are losting people.




This is the "amps" subforum, which is properly for amps with no DACs. Plenty of talk about DAC/amps in the hot "portable source gear" forum... Awhile ago judging from thread activity you'd think the Mojo the DAC/amp was selling more than all DAPs combined :rolleyes:


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## JamesFiiO

joe bloggs said:


> This is the "amps" subforum, which is properly for amps with no DACs. Plenty of talk about DAC/amps in the hot "portable source gear" forum... Awhile ago judging from thread activity you'd think the Mojo the DAC/amp was selling more than all DAPs combined


 
  
  
 thanks! we will see how the market change when iPhone7 finally remove the 3.5mm headphone jack !


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## warrior1975

Congrats to James and the rest of team Fiio!! You guys will always have my support.


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## bwanaaa

nealh said:


> Bummer oh well. Sorry to hear that but I guess Apple is being a pain in the rear


 

 or a pain in the ear?


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## Amber Rain

jamesfiio said:


> currently we have some projects on the way as below:
> 
> 1, i1, which designed for iPhone 7 which removed the 3.5 mm headphone jack. we will send to Apple to test it and the ETA is Dec. it is connect to the lightning connector and provide a 3.5mm headphone
> 
> ...




With regard to the A5, do you have any details on specs or expected price or release date etc. I have the E12 and was looking to upgrade to the E12A, would I be better off waiting for the A5?

Thanks


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## Ancipital

> BTW, we are worry about the market of portable amp, dac , seems people will more like to buy DAPs


 
 If only you had a range of well-liked and sensibly priced DAPs.. oh, wait...


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## ZzBOG

@JamesFiiO

 Does i1 have an amp as well or only DAC?


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## gavinfabl

Staking my interest. I don't want a DAP.


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## elfary

What's the output impedance and output power of the i1?


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## tomgrossi

Can you charge the iPhone 7 via an i1 (unlike on apple's adapter). If so I suspect you'd have a huge demand from even non-audiophiles just looking for a solution that is effective for use on long flights, etc.


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## nealh

Very much looking forward to the i1.


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## Marco Angel

Ok ok, so the E18 is better than the upcoming Q3? its for my galaxy S7 (no apple fan)


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## overthebars

Hey guys! 
I need a good DAC to play my Gen-3 iPod on my 2-channel system... it's a 30-pin connector, so I don't give a rip about lightning... does Fiio have such a monster that will communicate via the factory USB cable without having to buy the now discontinued Camera Connection cable??


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## ksatayboy

Release date for the products?


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