# Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH) - Dropping Monday



## jude (Aug 11, 2017)

DAC-less dedicated headphone amps aren't exactly at the height of their popularity these last several years, most of us now looking for single-chassis DAC/amp combos. Also, relative to the total market, plug-in-the-wall desktop-size headphone amps seem to me to have taken a back seat in popularity to more _portable_ gear, like portable DAC/amp combos and premium digital audio players. Only a few companies seem able to successfully buck these trends, and next Monday we may have the emergence of another: Massdrop. Next Monday (August 14) Massdrop is going to "drop" a plug-in-the-wall desktop size, DAC-less headphone amp--a tube / solid state hybrid one--called the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH). I've had a pre-production CTH for just a couple of days, and it's beautifully made, versatile, and, most importantly has _gorgeous_ sound on tap--the CTH sounds every bit a Cavalli amp in very early listening.


​
What does a Cavalli amp sound like? In my experience, you don't buy a Cavalli amp for a sound that's ruthless, dry, or lean. In my experiences with amps Alex Cavalli has designed, I'd say you go for a Cavalli amp when you want tonal richness, perhaps a touch of warmth, but somehow without sacrificing the ability to resolve like a high-end amp should. Cavalli Audio's $4000 Liquid Gold, a fully-balanced flagship beast of an amp (which we did a Head-Fi TV episode about some years back) remains one of my reference amps for driving low- to mid-sensitivity headphones, especially top-notch planar magnetic headphones. If your tastes favor a leaner, drier sound, where a sense of incisiveness is one of the prevailing characteristics (which some do prefer, and there's nothing wrong with that), I would generalize that perhaps Cavalli's amps won't be for you.

If the "CTH" name sounds familiar, that's because the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH is based on the legendary DIY tube hybrid amp designed by Alex Cavalli that was called the Compact Tube Hybrid (CTH). This new Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH is a revision of the original CTH circuit. For this latest version, Alex Cavalli drew from his years of product development experience at Cavalli Audio to refine and modify the original circuit. Also, as this latest version is a desktop-sized amp, it's not quite so "compact," so the "C" in CTH now stands for "Cavalli."

​I'll have more to say about this amp after I've had more listening time and more headphones used with it. Again, the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH just arrived a couple of days ago, so my time with it has been limited. So far, I have mostly used the Sennheiser HD800S with the CTH, and it drives the HD 800S beautifully, with a richness of tone through the bass and mids, and with treble clarity and smoothness well beyond what I'd expect at the price.

Oh, the price? $249.99 with free U.S. shipping. That kind of pricing coupled with sound like this, that's what bucks trends.

Again, I'll have more to say about it, but you can see the drop announcement for the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH at the following link:

*https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-cth-tube-hybrid-amp*​Also, I know a couple/few other Head-Fi'ers have spent a lot more time listening to the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH than I have and will be posting their reviews, so watch this thread.



2017-08-11 18:37 EDT: By the way, when the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH arrived, I happened to have another DAC/amp on the test bench doing measurements. So I quickly swapped the CTH in to get some quick measures on the Audio Precision APx555.


(Above) Frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz. (I'll post one later that extends higher, as a later measurement showed it flat to >200kHz.) (dBrA = 2V)


(Above) Frequency response deviation from 20Hz to 20kHz. (Again, deviation was just as flat out to >200kHz.)


(Above) THD+N (total harmonic distortion + noise) is very good, with slightly higher levels in the right channel.


(Above) This THD ratio graph shows that there's just a touch more noise in the right channel (based on the previous THD+N graph).


(Above) Crosstalk measurements are good, with slightly better performance with the left channel.


(Above) Intermodulation distortion (IMD) - CCIF

Some quick notes on these preliminary measurements:

Our Massdrop x Alex Cavalli CTH unit is pre-production, and Massdrop expects production units to be even better (built to tighter tolerances), which would be a nice bonus as this unit already measures quite well for a tube hybrid in my opinion.
We used a 300Ω load. I believe Massdrop's specs use loads of 45Ω and 50Ω.
Massdrop's CTH specifications (unless otherwise specified) use a 1V output (with volume knob maxed out). These preliminary measurements were done with the CTH at maximum volume, but with the input set by the Audio Precision APx555 to generate 2V at the amp's output.

Our audio measurements in this post were made using:

*Audio Precision APx555* audio analyzer


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## MuppetFace (Aug 11, 2017)

Reserved for when I get more listening done.


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## project86 (Aug 11, 2017)

Confession time - Historically, I have not been a huge fan of Cavalli Audio products. Or rather, I should say the _commercial_ products sporting Cavalli's name. The Liquid Lightning, Liquid Fire, and even the highly regarded Liquid Gold all seemed underwhelming for their respective asking prices. They had interesting aspects to the sound, but none would be anywhere near my first choice in their price brackets. To be fair - I know folks who absolutely _love_ those amps, so I chalk it up to system differences and sonic preferences just not being a match in my case.

The Liquid Carbon was probably the most promising, especially at its original $599 price, but the DIY Cavalli stuff always stood out as being more interesting to me. I really enjoyed the Cavalli Stacker 2, the Bijou, the EHHA, and even the little CTH (Compact Tube Hybrid), as being more compelling offerings than the commercial models. I know, DIY and commercial, apples and oranges, but still.

When Massdrop told me they were bringing an updated CTH to market for a great price, I was intrigued. Define "updated", I thought to myself. And define "great price". As it turns out, both terms are used in the _best _possible way.

 

After spending about a week with the CTH, I'm not sure "updated" even applies here. It's more like a complete reworking of the original design, with numerous improvements. This thing is now a true fire-breathing desktop component, rather than the mighty-mite design of the original. CTH now stands for Cavalli Tue Hybrid as the word Compact no longer applies. Massdrop even discussed future plans for this chassis - there are some great ideas on the table, but I'm probably not authorized to go into that yet. Suffice to say - the Massdrop crew knows what they are doing. Price? $249.

 

Quick impressions: this thing punches way above its weight class. I'm hearing succulent midrange body, clean, non-fatiguing treble, and solid extension on the low end.... surprisingly so for a cap-coupled design in this class (and with this build quality). Something typically has to give to allow for such a reasonable price but in this case I'm having trouble identifying the compromise.

I'm already on the hunt for tubes to roll as the stock Elecro-Harmonix 6922 - while pretty darn great for a stock tube - can surely be improved upon. It doesn't make sense to go overboard but I'm thinking the Amperex 7308 is a prime candidate (which I've purchased in the past for reasonable prices).

 

I'll have a more thorough review coming as I log some further hours on this thing. Just for perspective, I'm currently using it with a Zenion music server ($999) powered by a Keces P-8 linear power supply ($599), a Cayin iDAC-6 ($999), and the MrSpeakers Ether C headphones ($1499). At $249, the Massdrop CTH doesn't look or feel like a weak link at all. Impressive!

 

 

More to come in the near future.


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## swspiers

Wow! I just got the email from Massdrop...
I have no need for this amp, so I'll pass.  But this is an exciting entry for Massdrop, and should get A LOT of attention.  2 years in, and I still love my first-gen Liquid Carbon.  I have no doubt this will be equally exciting to own...


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## TimeLord

As a fan and owner of two Cavalli amps, I'll be placing an order. 

I'm very much interested in what Alex can do at this price point.


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## Holypal

Just a noob question. It seems doesn't have balanced analog input, but it has balanced headphone output. Does it make sense to do that?


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## AxelCloris

Holypal said:


> Just a noob question. It seems doesn't have balanced analog input, but it has balanced headphone output. Does it make sense to do that?


It's a single-ended amplifier, but the 4-pin XLR output is included for convenience. Cavalli has done this on other SE amps as well. Personally, I appreciate it because that means I don't need to adapt to 1/4".


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## Holypal (Aug 11, 2017)

AxelCloris said:


> It's a single-ended amplifier, but the 4-pin XLR output is included for convenience. Cavalli has done this on other SE amps as well. Personally, I appreciate it because that means I don't need to adapt to 1/4".



Thanks. I didn't know that.


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## heliosphann

More Cavalli the better!!! Glad a lot of new people are going to be able to check out their sound.


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## Fearless1

Do not need this ,will buy it!


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## Mediahound

Please be aware that this is not made by Cavalli. It's made by Massdrop by a China manufacturer with the Cavalli name being licensed, etc.


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## MuppetFace

Had a chance to spend some time with this new entry in the Cavalli lineup. TBH I'm pretty reluctant these days when it comes to evaluating new gear, as I've been on a bit of a hiatus from the world of audio evaluation, but Cavalli is one of those brands that have consistently impressed me in sound and the overall experience of ownership over the years---I still see my Liquid Gold as a go to for anything planar magnetic---so I was quite curious to hear their newest, much more affordable product.

I find myself quite satisfied with my current setup. Really, it takes something bowling me over for me to want to get on forums to talk about it nowadays. As you might've guessed, this little amp is one of those things for me.

Simply put, I haven't encountered anything else in this price range I'd rather own and listen to on a daily basis with my usual headphones of choice. For the dosh, there's some good competition from genuinely awesome manufacturers out there to be sure, but for me the CTH is ideal for several reasons:

-It has that "Cavalli magic" the larger amps do. Probably sounds corny to some, but there is a definite warmth and natural ease to Cavalli amps that, together with their ability to let headphones' great resolving capabilities shine through, makes for a really immersive and addictive listening experience. Perhaps I could find an amp that out resolves this amp for the same money, but thus far I haven't found anything else I'd rather use for listening to music.

-It has a beautifully robust design and build. This amp looks and feels significantly nicer than some amps I've used at twice the price. Operating it just feels nice: the volume pot is smooth, the ventilation holes look stylish and form a subtle nod to Massdrop with their arrangement.

-It matches quite well with the headphones I keep around: the Audio Zenith PMx2, modified Yamaha YH-1s, the Paradox and Code X, even the obscenely priced Susvara. Hungry stuff I'd normally use the considerably more expensive Liquid Glass and Liquid Gold amplifiers from Cavalli to drive. The CTH handles my favorites like a champ.

Do keep in mind I've only been evaluating the amp off and on for about a week now, so I'll probably have more specifics to add as I continue to listen. 

Sources used so far for those curious: 
Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 mk2 SE DAC
Onkyo DAC-1000
Orbit U-Turn turntable
AMW V12 Turbo turntable w/ Teatro cartridge


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## hans030390

*Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amplifier Review*

Massdrop has another very exciting, collaborative product they’ve just announced, the Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid headphone amplifier. You may recall the CTH used to be a DIY offering from Cavalli. What Massdrop is offering is a _highly _reworked version of the CTH, in a sleek chassis, ready to go out of the box (including the tube), all for $250.

Historically, it has never been easy to find pre-built, affordable tube amplifiers that sounded genuinely good and worked well with about any headphone, especially when bringing headphones like the HD650 to life. While Massdrop isn’t the first company to try to disrupt this particular barrier to entry in the hobby, the product they are offering is an incredibly welcome addition! (And with their HD6XX, Massdrop has been on a real roll lately making it easy to get high end gear and build a full rig at relatively affordable prices!)

*Form and Function*

The Massdrop x CTH, which I’ll simply call the MCTH from here on out, is a rather straightforward amplifier. It uses a 28V wall-wart power supply, has a single pair of RCA inputs, has single ended and balanced headphone outputs, and uses 6922 tubes or equivalent. It comes with an Electro Harmonix 6922 tube in the box.

The MCTH is a rather nice, clean, and simple looking amp, in my opinion. It looks sleek and modern without drawing much attention to itself. The chassis seems to be of high quality. It’s about the size of Schiit’s Jotunheim, though somewhat longer in the back and with a bit less height, if I had to go off memory.

Beyond that, there’s not much more to say. It’s a simple, hybrid tube amplifier. It’ll power almost anything without strain, though you may or may not notice some hiss on very sensitive headphones. It looks and feels like a more expensive amplifier. I also received some hints that this chassis style may be used in some upcoming products, which would make it easy to visually match your rig components if so.

*Sound Stuff*

The MCTH is a good sounding amp, to the point a more boutique company could sell this at a much higher price and get away with it in this industry. The same could be said about the Schiit Vali 2, which I’ll be using as my main comparison point for the MCTH. (*NOTE:* I did not know who else participated in the MCTH tests, did not know anyone’s thoughts on the amp, and all of this was written prior to this thread being posted.)

The MCTH is a slightly warm sounding amp, at least with the included EH 6922 tube. The Vali 2, in comparison, is a bit more neutral sounding. That’s not to say the differences are major, but if using the same tubes in each to get a sense of the amplifier’s own flavor, you may want the MCTH if you’re looking for a bit more of that tubey sort of tone.

I think both the MCTH and Vali 2 are surprisingly detailed, resolving, nuance sounding amps, and not just for the price (albeit most amps aren’t really worth discussing, so…). The MCTH, I think, may capture a bit more of those background nuances like reverb and decay, bringing out a bit more of that tube “magic.” The Vali 2 sounds a bit more restrained in comparison. If you want to boil down technicalities, the MCTH is the better amp, but not magnificently so. Enough to be worth the extra price.

Timbre is fairly good on the MCTH once you burn in the EH tube for a while (more on that in a bit). Yes, on better amps, you will get more liquidity and clarity. I dare say there may be the slightest hint of midrange grain in the MCTH’s sound, but it’s incredibly minor and not at all bothersome. The MCTH is easy to get along with but isn’t boring. The Valhalla 2, for example, is much drier sounding. Bass and treble are handled fairly well on the MCTH, timbre wise, particularly the treble. No real issues or nasties. Once again, though, a truly better amp will net you more bass slam and clarity as well as additional treble clarity. But for $250, or even ignoring the price, the MCTH is really great to listen to.

The MCTH is not what I would call a laid-back amp, but it’s not all that forward either. It strikes a nice balance between the two. The Vali 2 leans a little more towards the laid-back side with the MCTH going the opposite direction. For further comparison, an amp like the Jotunheim or Mjolnir 2 are much more forward than the MCTH.

Because of the nature of the MCTH, the stage sits a bit closer to you and has less width to it than the Vali 2. I think both are similar in terms of layering or depth, though this is tough to tell. The Vali 2 sounds a bit more solid state to me in how it presents the stage and elements within, whereas the MCTH has more of that tube sound despite it being more forward.

Dynamics and the like are good on the MCTH. Again, a truly better amp will get you some additional bass slam and macro-dynamics, as well as some greater nuance to micro-dynamics, but the MCTH makes the HD650 sound lively enough. If an amp can do that, you know it’s no slouch in keeping you engaged!

*Tube Burn-In and Rolling*

Now, I do recommend you burn in the MCTH and (especially) the EH tube for a good while, as I touched on earlier. The EH tube doesn’t sound quite right at first, to put it nicely. Just leave your amp on with some music going through it in the evenings for a couple weeks or so. Shoot for 50-100 hours before judging the MCTH + EH tube.

I say this, because stock, the MCTH + EH combo sounds a bit too mid-bassy and has a sort of fuzzy sound in the midrange. With time, the sound became more even, smoother, and with a blacker sounding background. I’m not saying these were absolutely massive, life altering changes, nor can I rule out placebo, but I have often had this experience with new production tubes.

Speaking of tube rolling, I found the MCTH to respond rather well to some tubes I picked up. In a sense, the MCTH does a fairly decent job getting out of the way of the tube, or so is how I hear it. The Vali 2 also responds fairly well to tubes, but I think it may impart just a hair more of its inherent character on the sound no matter what tube you use. But if you compare either to, say, the Valhalla 2, I found the Valhalla 2 to always impose a certain sound in a noticeable way regardless of what tubes you rolled.

Still, I do suggest you burn in the stock EH tube before you drop a ton of cash on questionable eBay tubes. It really does sound pretty good after plenty of burn-in.

If you are intent on tube rolling, I actually found I liked whatever Canadian 6BZ7 came with the Vali 2 I have on loan. It sounds pretty darn balanced in the MCTH. You can get those at a good price, matched and all, directly from Schiit. I also found a USA-made Sylvania that sounds fairly lively, a bit bassier, cleaner, and slightly brighter than the EH tube in the MCTH for less than $20 on eBay, NOS. I’m just not sure how to describe exactly which one it is.

Point being, I do NOT suggest you go crazy and dump tons of money on unobtainium tubes just for the MCTH, even if it does change a good amount depending on the tube you roll.

*Conclusion*

The MCTH is a really cool and exciting amp, and I know Massdrop (particularly CEE TEE, who put in a ton of awesome effort to bring this to the community!) is really proud of this one. It looks sleek and modern, sounds great, works well with about any headphone, was developed and refined by Massdrop, Alex Cavalli, and several testers, and lands at a very agreeable price of $250. The MCTH delivers the sort of performance that historically meant a lot more cash out of your pocket. If this at all sounds like an amp you might be interested in, I strongly encourage you to buy one!


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## Vansen (Aug 22, 2017)

*Introduction:*

Some time ago- a PCB, wall wart, and an army of tubes found their way to my doorstep. What showed up at my house that day would eventually become the Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid, an entry-level tube hybrid designed by Alex Cavalli for Massdrop.

Throughout the past several months, I’ve tried various versions of the amp and have had many full-sized headphones and amplifiers that I’ve tried alongside amp prototypes earlier this year.

Timing for this review is a bit difficult for me since I’ve been downsizing in preparation for a move (plus traveling) but I still want to be a part of this launch after helping test the amp and provide feedback.
It’s really nice to see a well-established, top-of-the-line amp designer focus on high value and high performing entry level product while today’s market sometimes seems to be moving in the direction of making ever more costly products.
And, I like this amp. _A lot._



*What Does It Sound Like?*

Describing the sound of the amp right now is a little challenging because I am about to be up in the mountains. 
I’ll describe some comparisons from memory while testing and comparing the amp plus impressions made with my current rig and the final version right before traveling.
(Tried with HD800, HD650, T-X0, HE500.)  I’ll also try to add some more at the end of the month (August 2017) when I am able to do some direct amp comparisons again with the final version based on what people are interested in.

*Tonal Balance:* The CTH is comparatively neutral with a slightly lean aspect to the bass compared to something like the Jotunheim (solid state amp with good bass slam).
It makes up for any comparative leanness with solid transients and a slight euphonic decay in the bass. There’s nothing wonky going on with the frequency response that’s going to prevent you from using the CTH with an HD800.
In fact, the CTH is a great pairing with the HD800, but for me…the real winner is pairing it with an HD650.

*Headstage:* If you spend a lot of time in “Schiitland” you get used to an up-front or “closed-in” headstage. The CTH really shines with a far more natural headstage than most of the Schiit I’ve played with.
Even though it has a tube, you’re not going to get a massive headstage with the CTH like you may get with other tube amps. I use term natural here because it doesn’t jump out and grab your attention in one way or another, which I really prefer.

*Macrodynamics:* I usually fall short in being able to express impressions about macrodynamics, but I feel that this area might be the weaker link in the CTH. The CTH still outperforms most amps under $500.
Jotunheim beats CTH in slam or “macrodynamics” but the Jotunheim is a freak of nature in this respect.

*Microdynamics:* Again, similar to the headstage. Nothing grabs my attention in one way or the other here, which is a plus. I’ll update with A/B microdynamics comparisons at the end of this month with other amps in-house.

*Clarity*: This is where the CTH really shines. Clarity is one of the most important aspects in any audio products for me and I used to complain about older HD650 headphones all the time because they seemed veiled.
The clarity CTH brings out in HD650 is on par with the best amps I’ve heard under $1500. This I do want to grab me. There’s no haze, no veil, just awesomesauce.

*Plankton:* When you swap from the Laconic NBM to the CTH, you notice a significant improvement in “plankton” retrieval (low level detail, connectedness, etc). Swapping from the CTH to the Jotunheim, there is only a slight improvement in plankton.
I remember the standout during amp testing for me was swapping from the Laconic Night Blues Mini to the CTH while listening to The Bill Evans Trio’s Waltz for Debby album. There was a lot going on in album that I didn’t hear with the Laconic NBM.

*Which Tube Should I Put in the CTH?*
A new production EH 6922 comes with the amp, and I’d recommend sticking with it. Throughout my testing, I tried out probably every compatible new production tube that cost less than $50.
The EH 6922 was by far my favorite of the any of the tubes. It offers the best clarity and resolution without doing odd things to the FR or transients.
You’ll get a little more air with the tube than some of the other and maybe a little bit less warm. Even so, this tube was still my favorite with the HD800.

*Okay… Which Fancy Tube Should I Put in the CTH?*
The only super expensive tube I stuck in the amp was an Amperex 7308, which sounds great with other amps, but I wasn’t too thrilled with it on the CTH.
I don’t remember much more about it than that. I’m sure there’s something better out there than the EH 6922 that’s nice and old, but I’d put that money elsewhere.
Personally, I wouldn’t exceed 20% the cost of an amp for a single tube.

*Balanced at $250!?*
The CTH has balanced output connector, but it is singled-ended, not balanced. I really enjoy this since most headphones that seem to find their way to me have balanced connectors only.

*What Don’t I Like About It:*
I like to listen to music at lower volumes than most people I know. For me, about 90% of my listening is done between eight and nine o’clock on the pot.
This isn’t really an issue for me, but it would be nice to have more range.  One way to do this if you have a “hot” DAC that outputs a strong signal is to reduce the digital volume a little as desired.
(Some argue this can decrease DAC resolution but you can try it for yourself and see if you hear any difference.)

UPDATED IMPRESSIONS: Post 193

*Summary:*
The CTH is currently my favorite headphone amp for under $500. I can’t think of a better match for the HD650 at this price point and is a solid choice for the HD800.
It can drive planars such as the TH-X00 and the HE-500 with ease, provided you’re not trying to use them as small speakers. 

With the CTH, you get the best of both worlds from what a tube hybrid is supposed to be: You get the resolution and clarity of a solid state amp.
You also get nice transients up front, but get a slight bit euphoric decay that lets you know there is a tube is somewhere inside.

*Reviewer’s Note:*
I am camping/ backpacking through Mammoth and Yosemite starting on 8/12 and will be unable to post any replies to this thread until about 8/22.
I wrote this on this on 8/6 and am posting it right before I leave for the mountains!


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## budi

Thanks for the early reviews guys, pretty excited for Monday.


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## Fox2twenty

Thank you for your time and consideration. I love these reviews guyz! I wish I had more money....


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## rockytopwiz

Looking for an amp to go with my used hd800 I just bought.  I'd like to keep my budget under $300.  Would this be the best choice?  Or would I be better off going with a non-hybrid like a darkcvoice or little dot?


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## ahmadfaizadnan

Really want to see how this compares with liquid carbon


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## Fox2twenty

Check out the reviews. Sounds PERFECT for Senns. 

I just came back to head-fi and this is a crazy good price for a Cavalli product.


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## ahmadfaizadnan

iPhone IEM said:


> this is a crazy good price for a Cavalli product.



Yes it is


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## doctorjazz

Amen on the comparison to the Liquid Carbon, I have a v1, very curious (probably do not need another low price Cavalli amp).


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## canthearyou

This is very nice! My only reason for not buying it depends on its shipping date.


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## ahmadfaizadnan (Aug 11, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> This is very nice! My only reason for not buying it depends on its shipping date.



True. For massdrop, that's a thing to consider.

Also wonder if this will sell as fast as first run hd6xx.


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## purk

I think it has potential, but the power supply is likely the weak point here.  I bet a DIY PSU can be a good thing for this amp.


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## Aerosphere

Great price!


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## johnsherdy10

Thanks for the early reviews guys
Good price for Cavalli


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## Odin412

Exciting news! It's unfortunate that it's made in China rather than in Austin, Texas, but I guess that's the price to pay to get the Cavalli magic for $250. Kudos for including an XLR socket even though the amp is single ended - a nice touch that I've seen on all upcoming Cavalli amp models. Need? No. Want? Yes. Order? Probably.


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## NickL33

Wonder how does it match th900


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## project86

purk said:


> I think it has potential, but the power supply is likely the weak point here.  I bet a DIY PSU can be a good thing for this amp.



That's probably true. It's a 28V unit though, and although I have several linear PSUs here, none of them handle that rather unusual voltage. The tricky part would be finding a quality PSU that still makes sense from a price perspective. Still, the thing sounds darn good even with the stock switching supply. 



NickL33 said:


> Wonder how does it match th900



I've got a Fostex TH-X00 that I'll be trying with the CTH as soon as I get a chance. So far I've had excellent results with HD800 and HD650/HD6XX, as well as Ether C. The HE1000 seemed pretty decent, but not nearly as good a match as the others. I've got many others to try and will report back when I can.


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## pervysage

Anyone use the Utopia with this thing?

Not really in need of a new amp but at this price point would be fun to experiment with some tube sound again.


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## thatonenoob

Would love to know how this stacks against the LC.  Is it a worthy addition?


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## bosiemoncrieff

How many watts of power does it output?


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## boomtube

I'm buying it because it's a Cavalli for the price of a few pizza's and beer...


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## Zachik

boomtube said:


> I'm buying it because it's a Cavalli for the price of a few pizza's and beer...


You're buying some darn expensive pizza and beers... 

But seriously, I have been thinking of venturing into the world of tubes, and was seriously considering the Little Dot Mk3... 
I might choose this instead (practically, the same price).
The LD Mk3 is OTL (with 4 tubes) and this is a hybrid (single tube).
Any comparison (or guess) on difference between them?


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## ld100

Is it worth getting? Not considering the price? I see multiple comments that it is a name license and not product produced by Cavalli... So apple and oranges, but this or the real thing for way more money at some point...


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## runeight

Those comments are not correct. This is totally my design (or, more accurately, redesign of the DIY CTH), licensed to Massdrop.


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## Astral Abyss

I'd love to see the innards before deciding to get in on the drop or not.  It's only a good deal if the internals aren't compromised for cost.


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## GuddoggEli

These are a great set of reviews.  Good work you guys!

I have a noob question for you.  What would be your preference for a compatible DAC?


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## Zachik

runeight said:


> Those comments are not correct. This is totally my design (or, more accurately, redesign of the DIY CTH), licensed to Massdrop.



Alex - how would YOU describe its sound, compared to OTL and to solid state?
I have a solid state (non-Cavali) amp, and would like to venture to tube sound, but to be honest not even sure if the right way to go is OTL or Hybrid for some tube sound for noobs (coming from solid state)...
ANY opinion / feedback would be useful


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## bosiemoncrieff

runeight said:


> Those comments are not correct. This is totally my design (or, more accurately, redesign of the DIY CTH), licensed to Massdrop.



Any word on the number of watts it outputs into, say, 300 ohms?


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## Suopermanni

I have heard rumours that an linear PSU can be used with this but does anyone know of a LPS that would output 28VDC and 1.25A at least?


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## Soundsgoodtome (Aug 15, 2017)

Amazing how far we've come along. Remember the days when Cavalli built amps meant spending over $1k and the days when mentioning Massdrop was a nono?!!?!
Now we've got a sub $300 Cavalli amp and Massdrop appearing front and center.

I wonder how this stacks up against the Garage 1217 Project Sunrise/Horizon and Solstice/Ember. Those amps are amazing for the price and they even double as a preamp... when paired with an LPS they are TOTL traits.

I've always thought Cavalli amps to be overpriced.. but that was before I was able to afford them without even blinking. Unfortunately now that I can collect all of their amps, I still think they're overpriced. I suppose the Chinese and value based amp makers out there really made diminishing returns a stretch for true high end amps. However I do know plenty of users very happy with their Fire and Gold, along with their other products. The LC imo is wonderful for the price, albeit maybe needing just a hair more in power dept. Can't wait to hear this Massdrop piece!


----------



## ubs28

Maybe I will jump on this drop. It doesn't cost that much. We shall see.


----------



## Suopermanni

ubs28 said:


> Maybe I will jump on this drop. It doesn't cost that much. We shall see.



I think I might jump on this too depending on what the timing of the drop is like and how big the window of opportunity is. Never had a tube amp before.


----------



## ubs28

Suopermanni said:


> I think I might jump on this too depending on what the timing of the drop is like and how big the window of opportunity is. Never had a tube amp before.



Same for me. I am curious if it can improve the HD 650 and HD 800 as most people say you need tubes with these headphones.

But if I have to wait till december for shipping, then i am not sure if I will do it.


----------



## Levanter

Would be interesting to see comparisons with Feliks Espressivo at this price point. Considering Marvey mentioned with LPS this could compete within the $800 range, perhaps comparison with Elise and Mjolnir 2 would be interesting.


----------



## Marlowe

Zachik said:


> But seriously, I have been thinking of venturing into the world of tubes, and was seriously considering the Little Dot Mk3...
> I might choose this instead (practically, the same price).
> The LD Mk3 is OTL (with 4 tubes) and this is a hybrid (single tube).
> Any comparison (or guess) on difference between them?



I'd be very interested in this as well. I'm currently using a Little Dot MK III (Electro Harmonix 6H30PI power tubes and Mullard M8100 driver tubes, the RTC branded French military version) primarily with the Sennheiser HD 700 and am awaiting the Christmas delivery of the HD 6XX. I doubt it would be a night and day difference, but the Cavalli just looks so nice that I don't think I can resist. (Provided the drop stays open until Wednesday morning when my SS check is deposited; I may be old, but I have my priorities!)


----------



## Shawnb

Just got my refund for the Liquid Spark, time to spend it on this


----------



## Sharkhunter

I have paired my HD800S with Liquid Carbon and like how it sounds. I did try a WA6 with HD800S and couldn't differentiate the tubey sound when compared with LC. Curse my ears.

Should I list the LC for sale and jump onto CTH.?


----------



## gearofwar (Aug 12, 2017)

Mediahound said:


> Please be aware that this is not made by Cavalli. It's made by Massdrop by a China manufacturer with the Cavalli name being licensed, etc.


check out Audio-GD , it's chinese manufacturer but the performance,quality and price beat the heck out of Cavalli. Bottom line: I don't give a crap where it's made as long as it maintains quality and performance.


----------



## Aradea

Odin412 said:


> Exciting news! It's unfortunate that it's made in China rather than in Austin, Texas, but I guess that's the price to pay to get the Cavalli magic for $250. Kudos for including an XLR socket even though the amp is single ended - a nice touch that I've seen on all upcoming Cavalli amp models. Need? No. Want? Yes. Order? Probably.


Hi.. Sorry for this newbie question.

If the amp is said to be single ended and only has a balanced/XLR input, so can I assume that there will be no difference if we plug our headphones into the SE input?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Can any of the early reviewers comment on how an amp like the MCTH compares to a hybrid like the Lyr 2?  I have a tube hybrid purchase in my near future, but wasn't ready to make a decision so soon!  I understand the Lyr has the option to be used as a preamp, which is a nice feature, and there is also the price differential (x2 for the Lyr, also requires two tubes), but in terms of pure sonic performance, is the MCTH comparable to the Lyr 2?

Thanks!


----------



## runeight (Aug 12, 2017)

see below


----------



## runeight (Aug 12, 2017)

Aradea said:


> Hi.. Sorry for this newbie question.
> 
> If the amp is said to be single ended and only has a balanced/XLR input, so can I assume that there will be no difference if we plug our headphones into the SE input?



The amp is definitely SE. It has RCA inputs only. But, it has both XLR and TRS output jacks to accommodate almost all the over ear headphones and cables available. Many higher end headphones these days come with either an XLR cable or an inline adaptor cable that will change from XLR to TRS or two sets of cables.

I strongly prefer the XLR jack for a number of reasons, even if it's only delivering SE. And it's also a nice convenience for the folks who are geared up mostly with XLR headphone connectors.

The outputs are electrically identical.


----------



## Aradea

runeight said:


> The amp is definitely SE. It has RCA inputs only. But, it has both XLR and TRS output jacks to accommodate almost all the over ear headphones and cables available. Many higher end headphones these days come with either an XLR cable or an inline adaptor cable that will change from XLR to TRS or two sets of cables.
> 
> I strongly prefer the XLR jack for a number of reasons, even if it's only delivering SE. And it's also a nice convenience for the folks who are geared up mostly with XLR headphone connectors.
> 
> The outputs are electrically identical.


Thanks a lot for the quick reply! Crystal clear for me.


----------



## Shawnb

This will be shipping international?


----------



## CEE TEE

Shawnb said:


> This will be shipping international?


Yes...US shipping is free, international shipping is discounted.


----------



## chaturanga

I am in HD6XX drop and also in Objective 2 AMP. This coming Cavalli offer confused my mind and now thinking to cancel O2. 

For the DAC section, I will use my Meridian Explorer 2 DAC for some time. 

So how will I connect ME2 (Has a 3.5mm line out) to Cavalli or without a desktop DAC will that setup be meaningless?


----------



## Sanlitun

Not one of you guys cracked the case and took some internal pics?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan (Aug 12, 2017)

chaturanga said:


> So how will I connect ME2 (Has a 3.5mm line out) to Cavalli or without a desktop DAC will that setup be meaningless?



you could use the 3.5mm to rca adapter cable like the one below (it's the exact one I used for my mojo)

https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p...E4d8UobbCmuU-qLto1MHLOhQInnxYGpRoCgcAQAvD_BwE

without dac, it's not meaningless but if you use digital source, DAC will give you better sound.


----------



## chaturanga

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> you could use the 3.5mm to rca adapter cable like the one below (it's the exact one I used for my mojo)
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p...E4d8UobbCmuU-qLto1MHLOhQInnxYGpRoCgcAQAvD_BwE
> 
> without dac, it's not meaningless but if you use digital source, DAC will give you better sound.



Thank you very much


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> The amp is definitely SE. It has RCA inputs only. But, it has both XLR and TRS output jacks to accommodate almost all the over ear headphones and cables available.



This is a very nice feature that I would recommend that other manufacturers adopt as well. Much less need to hunt for the XLR-TRS adapter.


----------



## project86

Sanlitun said:


> Not one of you guys cracked the case and took some internal pics?



I normally would, but this unit is a pre-production version. Not sure it's really fair to show it off given it isn't quite the final form yet. I'll ask about it though.


----------



## swspiers

project86 said:


> I normally would, but this unit is a pre-production version. Not sure it's really fair to show it off given it isn't quite the final form yet. I'll ask about it though.


And that's how one becomes trusted enough to be sent a pre-production version of anything.  Judgment is a good thing!!!


----------



## project86

By the way, I forgot to mention this. The final production version will have a slightly enlarged "tube hole" for more wiggle room while removing tubes. That's one thing I _know_ is different from this sample I have. It's a small thing but actually very thoughtful.


----------



## purk

Maybe Alex could provide sound description against the Liquid Carbon.  Is it within a striking distance or quite a noticeably drop from that.  I would not just buy something based on price any more.  Remember that you can easily buy a second hand $500 desktop amp for around $200 less.  Also, this is a tube hybrid amp not a pure tube amp; hence, tube-rolling will be less pronounced.  Also, the better the PSU....the better tuberolloing results will be.  Also, tube hybrid will be less lush sounding than a pure tube amplifier.  YMMY.


----------



## tuckers

This product looks great, and I think I might be interested.  I've never used Massdrop before (it looks amazing though), will be there be a return policy for this product?


----------



## Jodet

tuckers said:


> This product looks great, and I think I might be interested.  I've never used Massdrop before (it looks amazing though), will be there be a return policy for this product?



The return policy is you keep it.  If you don't like it I'm sure after the drop is over there will be people thinking, 'gee, I wish I'd bought one of those'.


----------



## Hansotek

Fearless1 said:


> Do not need this ,will buy it!



+1. Don't need. Must have. Lol!


----------



## John Q Lin

This Vs the Grace M9XX?


----------



## ProfFalkin

John Q Lin said:


> This Vs the Grace M9XX?


Such a vague question.


----------



## elNan (Aug 13, 2017)

ProfFalkin said:


> Such a vague question.



An even vaguer answer...


----------



## ProfFalkin

elNan said:


> Even vaguer answer...


Well, let me pop the question into my HF translator.  

Convert "This Vs the Grace M9XX?" to English = 

"I'm too lazy to look up reviews on each for myself, and to apply my tastes and personal preference to what I've learned, so someone please do the work for me".


My answer would be... No.


----------



## Hansotek

purk said:


> Also, tube hybrid will be less lush sounding than a pure tube amplifier.  YMMY.



That's not true at all. It's completely dependent on the design. Compare a Liquid Crimson or Glass to a Glenn OTL or an Ampsandsound Kenzie and tell me a hybrid isn't as lush.


----------



## Zachik

Time is running out, need to make a decision VERY soon, and I am not getting answers to my newbie questions... 

I only have experience with SS amps (currently using Schiit Jot), and would like to buy a tube amp in addition - I want to experience that tube sound people like so much.
Is this one a good amp to experience tube sound? Some early reviewers mentioned it was not very "tubey"... or should I get an OTL tube amp like Feliks Elise or Little Dot Mk3 to get a better "tube sound experience"?

Thanks.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Zachik said:


> Time is running out, need to make a decision VERY soon, and I am not getting answers to my newbie questions...
> 
> I only have experience with SS amps (currently using Schiit Jot), and would like to buy a tube amp in addition - I want to experience that tube sound people like so much.
> Is this one a good amp to experience tube sound? Some early reviewers mentioned it was not very "tubey"... or should I get an OTL tube amp like Feliks Elise or Little Dot Mk3 to get a better "tube sound experience"?
> ...



I'd suggest pumping the breaks, doing research, and making a confident and informed decision.  Right now it looks like you'd end up unhappy with any purchase due to the uncertainties you have.

Not sure why the rush.  

So, if I had to pick one you listed, I'd say... Neither, go w/ Bottlehead Crack+SB.  (Easier & cheaper to tube roll which is a plus.)


----------



## PinkyPowers

I was looking for a tube-amp, and here one is. 

Right now I'm using the Audio-GD NFB-28 for my HD6XX, LCD-2.2F, and HD800. I love the sound. But I'm interested in playing around with Tubes. Think this might be too good not to jump on.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I agree. You should go for it. I, however, find it difficult to justify the purchase given my extant MJ2 and Vali 1...if I get another amp it'll be a DNA stratus or else a BHSE lol


----------



## Walderstorn

Zachik said:


> Time is running out, need to make a decision VERY soon, and I am not getting answers to my newbie questions...
> 
> I only have experience with SS amps (currently using Schiit Jot), and would like to buy a tube amp in addition - I want to experience that tube sound people like so much.
> Is this one a good amp to experience tube sound? Some early reviewers mentioned it was not very "tubey"... or should I get an OTL tube amp like Feliks Elise or Little Dot Mk3 to get a better "tube sound experience"?
> ...



I would prefer the BH Crack to my first real tube experience tbh. Although the Elise has a ton of good (mostly over-hypped) reviews i don't think i will ever sell the Crack, my 600 simply loved it. Although it wasn't as good with the HD800 (i have the Cavalli Crimson for that) it really gives me a good tube sound for a good price and i just like it overall.

It's obviously, imo,important to have experience with SS, hybrids and Tube amps but i wouldn't, at all, say that a hybrid "replaces" a tube and vice-versa.

I am now very satisfied with what i have and the Crimson, imo again, is the best Cavalli amp and that's the reason i still have it. From another website with users that helped "tune" this new massdrop hybrid the impressions were really good so i think it will be a "safe bet" but don't keep this potential buy from preventing you to experience a proper good tube amp, whichever it may be.


----------



## canthearyou

Zachik said:


> Time is running out, need to make a decision VERY soon, and I am not getting answers to my newbie questions...
> 
> I only have experience with SS amps (currently using Schiit Jot), and would like to buy a tube amp in addition - I want to experience that tube sound people like so much.
> Is this one a good amp to experience tube sound? Some early reviewers mentioned it was not very "tubey"... or should I get an OTL tube amp like Feliks Elise or Little Dot Mk3 to get a better "tube sound experience"?
> ...



That headphones are you planning on using?


----------



## thi181

These would sound great with my 6xx, but i am more of a iem guy are there any other cavalli offerings that would suit both?


----------



## thi181

I am looking for desktop tube amp to go with my mojo.


----------



## Zachik

ProfFalkin said:


> I'd suggest pumping the breaks, doing research, and making a confident and informed decision.  Right now it looks like you'd end up unhappy with any purchase due to the uncertainties you have.
> 
> Not sure why the rush.
> 
> So, if I had to pick one you listed, I'd say... Neither, go w/ Bottlehead Crack+SB.  (Easier & cheaper to tube roll which is a plus.)



The rush is due to the drop that opens in less than 24 hours, and depending on quantity - might end VERY fast...
Will do some reading tonight on Bottlehead Crack. Thanks for the recommendation!



Walderstorn said:


> I would prefer the BH Crack to my first real tube experience tbh. Although the Elise has a ton of good (mostly over-hypped) reviews i don't think i will ever sell the Crack, my 600 simply loved it. Although it wasn't as good with the HD800 (i have the Cavalli Crimson for that) it really gives me a good tube sound for a good price and i just like it overall.
> 
> It's obviously, imo,important to have experience with SS, hybrids and Tube amps but i wouldn't, at all, say that a hybrid "replaces" a tube and vice-versa.
> 
> I am now very satisfied with what i have and the Crimson, imo again, is the best Cavalli amp and that's the reason i still have it. From another website with users that helped "tune" this new massdrop hybrid the impressions were really good so i think it will be a "safe bet" but don't keep this potential buy from preventing you to experience a proper good tube amp, whichever it may be.



Thanks! The Crimson is a little (read: a lot...) outside my budget. Will read about the crack tonight.



canthearyou said:


> That headphones are you planning on using?



My (insanely ever growing collection) includes:
Mr. Speakers Ether Flow open and AEONs, HD600, HiFiMan 400i (to list a few).


----------



## canthearyou

Zachik said:


> The rush is due to the drop that opens in less than 24 hours, and depending on quantity - might end VERY fast...
> Will do some reading tonight on Bottlehead Crack. Thanks for the recommendation!
> 
> 
> ...



I would wager you're gonna have better luck with this amp over an OTL using that selection of headphones.


----------



## Zachik

canthearyou said:


> I would wager you're gonna have better luck with this amp over an OTL using that selection of headphones.



Forgot to mention:
I am currently using (and love) the Schiit Jot.
I am looking for an amp to complement (not replace) it, and experience some "tube magic".

I was worried the new MD hybrid might sound too much like a SS (read: my Jot).


----------



## ld100

Don't rush! This will pop on Massdrop every few weeks for the next three years... No need to rush. I would wait for a review or two after the first drop and initial buzz...


----------



## swspiers

ld100 said:


> Don't rush! This will pop on Massdrop every few weeks for the next three years... No need to rush. I would wait for a review or two after the first drop and initial buzz...



You're probably right.


----------



## canthearyou

ld100 said:


> Don't rush! This will pop on Massdrop every few weeks for the next three years... No need to rush. I would wait for a review or two after the first drop and initial buzz...



The reason to rush is because I bet this has a late December delivery date.


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> The rush is due to the drop that opens in less than 24 hours, and depending on quantity - might end VERY fast...
> Will do some reading tonight on Bottlehead Crack. Thanks for the recommendation!
> 
> Thanks! The Crimson is a little (read: a lot...) outside my budget. Will read about the crack tonight.
> ...



If those are your headphones, you should skip the Crack. It's really only meant to drive 300 ohm and 600 ohm headphones. It will sound like hot garbage with all your planars.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> If those are your headphones, you should skip the Crack. It's really only meant to drive 300 ohm and 600 ohm headphones. It will sound like hot garbage with all your planars.



Good advice - thanks!
So, what do you think about the MCTH with my headphones? What about OTL like Felisk Elise or Little Dot Mk3? I believe they're supposed to support headphones 32 ohms to 300 ohms (from memory)...


----------



## John Q Lin

ProfFalkin said:


> Well, let me pop the question into my HF translator.
> 
> Convert "This Vs the Grace M9XX?" to English =
> 
> ...



Come on dude be cool. some would love to do the research to help others, isn't that why we're here for, to help each other.


----------



## NoahFence

I was definitely going to get this until I saw the details.  Deal Killers for me:
1.  It is not designed to also be a preamp for (e.g. powered) speakers.
2.  For me that means the chassis takes up too much space--it takes up too much room for my headphone only applications.
3.  A switching power supply sends noise back down you electricity source wires to whatever other components you have on, certainly on that circuit and even throughout the house.  This will impact the sound quality of any other equipment you are using.   Hence one would need to keep that power supply turned off when not using it!  If you add the price of a good linear power supply, the price on this no longer looks attractive.  (Some other people that know more than I have noted that 28 volts is an unusual level, finding something would be difficult.)

"The devil is in the details" and for me in this case they don't pan out. YMMV
NF


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> Good advice - thanks!
> So, what do you think about the MCTH with my headphones? What about OTL like Felisk Elise or Little Dot Mk3? I believe they're supposed to support headphones 32 ohms to 300 ohms (from memory)...



I haven't heard it yet, but I've had extended listens with all of Alex's other amps and owned a couple of them too, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them with that gear. So my best guess is this will pair very well with your gear, with the caveat that I don't have direct impressions.

FWIW, I know with 100% hands-on direct certainty that the Liquid Carbon pairs outstandingly with all of your headphones (and probably better so than just about anything (with a couple exceptions) until you get into the $1,500 range where there are a lot of options). And those are quite readily available used.

Still, I think this MCTH will be quite good, and I'm totally grabbing one to try, even if I don't need it.


----------



## ld100

John Q Lin said:


> This Vs the Grace M9XX?



You do realize one is a Dac/Amp and one is just Amp... If you compare Amp sections I am pretty sure Cavalli will have an edge... But realistically two different beast. If you just want simplicity and good unit I would go for Grace... Interested in playing with different Dac units? Rolling tubes? Cavalli unit... These are not really direct competitors... Both probably very good devices. But apples and oranges.


----------



## NoahFence (Aug 13, 2017)

John Q Lin said:


> This Vs the Grace M9XX?



You should also note that the Grace is designed for use as a preamp as well as a headphone amp. (E.g. you could use it with powered speakers.)  This is not the case with the Massdrop Cavalli


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I haven't heard it yet, but I've had extended listens with all of Alex's other amps and owned a couple of them too, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them with that gear. So my best guess is this will pair very well with your gear, with the caveat that I don't have direct impressions.
> 
> FWIW, I know with 100% hands-on direct certainty that the Liquid Carbon pairs outstandingly with all of your headphones (and probably better so than just about anything (with a couple exceptions) until you get into the $1,500 range where there are a lot of options). And those are quite readily available used.
> 
> Still, I think this MCTH will be quite good, and I'm totally grabbing one to try, even if I don't need it.



I currently own the Schiit Jot. No idea how it compares to the LC, but I am happy with it. Just looking to complement it with a tube or hybrid amp...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

That estimated ship time is brutal. Feb of 2018? Ouch


----------



## canthearyou

Yeah, a half-year wait is a real bummer!


----------



## Levanter

lol I was rushing just to get in the drop that I didn't bother seeing the shipping date until I saw the comments...
but i'm not in a rush for an amp, so I don't mind "that" much. Hopefully during this long waiting period they realized there are other potential upgrades that they could implement in... and hopefully an option for a built in LPS for an extra $$$ to avoid more stacks...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

That would be nice!  6 months is a long time.  I am itching to get a tube hybrid, the way I see it, I have 16 days to change my mind, maybe I'll trial the Lyr 2 in the mean time


----------



## Marlowe (Aug 14, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> That estimated ship time is brutal. Feb of 2018? Ouch



Yep. I was hoping they had already built up some inventory, since this is obviously going to be a popular seller, but apparently not. I am probably going to buy it anyway, but it does solve one quandary. I have the HD 6XX coming  from Massdrop around Xmas time and was planning to order a cable for it in early Fall (from a one man shop that made me a beautiful braided cable for my HD 700 for around $100, but he takes 1-2 months to complete orders). After learning of this drop, I was debating whether to get an XLR cable or not to pair with this amp (yes, I know the CTH is completely single ended, but some think the XLR connector is superior to a 1/4 inch jack even in a non-balanced amp). Since the CTH is not scheduled to ship for more than two months after I (hopefully) have received the 6XX, I'll just go with a 1/4 inch plug. LOL, I'll probably end up getting yet another set (or two) of tubes to roll in my Little Dot MK III before I get my hands on this.


----------



## Hansotek

Joined. And now the wait begins.


----------



## Shetzu

Joined the drop. Shipping Feb 27th 2018.


----------



## Beagle

L0rdGwyn said:


> That estimated ship time is brutal. Feb of 2018? Ouch


Yeah, I saw than upon completion of my order...and promptly cancelled.


----------



## Jodet

Beagle said:


> Yeah, I saw than upon completion of my order...and promptly cancelled.



I could swear I saw something a few days ago about 'shipping September 6th'.    Either I'm wrong about that or it changed.   Bigly.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Beagle said:


> Yeah, I saw than upon completion of my order...and promptly cancelled.


I am probably going to do the same and go for the Lyr 2.  Sorry Massdrop, impulse buying is ingrained into the audiophile DNA lol you gotta get it in peoples' hands fast or they move on to the next thing!


----------



## screwdriver

wait time is a bummer .....too long


----------



## Beagle

I just don't like having money tied up for half a year...other things come along in the interim.


----------



## cardeli22

Fearless1 said:


> Do not need this ,will buy it!


I know. I have my eyes on this, the Beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro, and the Mr. Speakers Aeon. Then I'm done...for good. LOL I hope.


----------



## Zachik

cardeli22 said:


> I know. I have my eyes on this, the Beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro, and the Mr. Speakers Aeon. Then I'm done...for good. LOL I hope.



"Then I'm done... for good" - famous last words


----------



## Shawnb (Aug 14, 2017)

Damn it's going fast, I checked maybe a hr or 2 ago it was at 175, now it's past 400.




cardeli22 said:


> Then I'm done...for good. LOL I hope.



Done... for good isn't real. It's just like overkill, it doesn't exist.


----------



## cardeli22

Shawnb said:


> Damn it's going fast, I checked maybe a hr or 2 ago it was at 175, now it's past 400.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL yep.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

the shipping date is a bummer


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 14, 2017)

Beagle said:


> Yeah, I saw than upon completion of my order...and promptly cancelled.



Yep.  Massdrop seriously needs to get their Schiit together.

The 3-6 month wait times (or longer!) were OK when they were just getting started, but now they should be well funded enough to not have these ridiculous wait times anymore.


----------



## Khragon

Massdrop still doesn't have the confidence in themselves to build first and drop later... instead they prefer to get the money first, didn't join the drop because of the long wait, these will always be available used a short time later.


----------



## Sanlitun

The wait time is a concern, and I'm guessing that date is their best scenario without delays. I'm still waiting for keycaps I ordered in 2016 from Massdrop so I know how things can go bad there. It's certainly long enough for my tastes or interests to change.


----------



## sahmen

I have opted in because of my experience with the Gen 1 Liquid Carbon, which has been mostly positive. I do not particularly need it, except for being enticed by some small curiosity and desire I have to try out "tube-sound" in a hybrid, at a price that I find to be relatively irresistible. 

 I am also particularly swayed by the account Dr. Cavalli's has given of his own input in redesigning the older DIY CTH for this project, and for his statement that "The component quality in this amp is equal to the quality in the Liquid Carbon," although I confess I am at some loss as to how to interpret what he calls equal "component quality" given the differences that exist between the technical makeup of the LC and and that this new model (not to mention the fact that the LC itself comes in two different iterations: a Gen 1 and a Gen 2--So to which of the two is Dr Cavalli's statement referring?). 

In what sense might one say the "component quality" of hybrid tube amp with a single-ended topology, is equal to that of a SS amp with a fully balanced topology?  I really can't answer that question, but I am willing to let my ears decide whether the two can match each other pound for pound..., the "devil" being in the so-called details.. and all...


----------



## BaseRobber

I committed to the drop, but I'm debating pulling out and looking for a good deal on a Lyr 2.

This wait is too long, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to miss out on an affordable Cavalli amp


----------



## Tuneslover

canthearyou said:


> Yeah, a half-year wait is a real bummer!



Don't you mean 6 months?  Still pretty long wait though.


----------



## canthearyou

Tuneslover said:


> Don't you mean 6 months?  Still pretty long wait though.


Nope I meant a half-year. Lol


----------



## geoffalter11

I opted in as well, although waiting 6 months is kind of a nightmare.  It is a total want to have, not a need to have.  So, when it comes it comes.  I will get to try the legendary Cavalli sound when it arrives.  In the meantime, I will continue to hate waiting.  I will try to forget I even ordered it...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

canthearyou said:


> Nope I meant a half-year. Lol



Or are you sure you didn't mean 26 weeks?  It's a long time, either way.


----------



## Beagle

canthearyou said:


> Nope I meant a half-year. Lol


How about a year minus 6 months?


----------



## Zachik

Beagle said:


> How about a year minus 6 months?



It is actually longer than 26 weeks / 6 months / half year... 
Estimated delivery is Feb. 27 - that makes it 6 months + 13 days. almost 28 weeks. 
Sigh. I am not good at waiting...


----------



## MattRG

I joined.  I am very curious to hear this new CTH versus my existing Schiit Saga + Schiit Jotunheim setup.  The Saga is already giving my Jot some tube euphonics and a wider (although still very up front) stage so it will be very, very interesting to hear how close the $249 CTH can get to it.  No, I don't need it but at $249 it isn't a large investment for what seems to be a very nice entry level hyrbid amp.


----------



## NickL33

I really dont know about that 27weeks wait + delivery.... It truely shock me, when i saw the waiting time, as i though i can have good chrismas present


----------



## skasundr

I am really interested in the CTH hybrid tube amp - itching to bite the bullet.  Until I saw this drop, I was considering Linear Tube Audio MZ2, costing $1000 more.  I understand that the latter is a pure tube amplifier, versus the hybrid tube amplifier in the CTH.  Anyone have any insights or personal experiences with either of these two and how they should perform comparatively sound-wise?  I only do about 25% of my listening on headphones, mostly with Grado sr325e and Oppo PM-3, with also an old VModa and a few low-priced IEMs.  I currently have a Dragonfly Red that I use for both DAC and headphone amplifier at this time, but looking to try out some tube taste and the performance with a stronger discrete headphone amplifier.  How would the Dragonfly Red DAC with line out pair to any of these two amplifiers?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.


----------



## Josh Englert

Zachik said:


> I currently own the Schiit Jot. No idea how it compares to the LC, but I am happy with it. Just looking to complement it with a tube or hybrid amp...


In the same boat as well. Currently using the Schiit Jotunheim as my main amp, and am looking for a complementary amp (tube or hybrid) like this one. Like yourself, I'm slowly building a collection of headphones. Ever since I first heard the MrSpeakers Aeon, I love the planar type of sound. And pairing with a few planars and some great dynamics (Fostex TH-X00 and HD 6XX on the way)...I'm definitely picking up this amp...


----------



## Zachik

Josh Englert said:


> In the same boat as well. Currently using the Schiit Jotunheim as my main amp, and am looking for a complementary amp (tube or hybrid) like this one. Like yourself, I'm slowly building a collection of headphones. Ever since I first heard the MrSpeakers Aeon, I love the planar type of sound. And pairing with a few planars and some great dynamics (Fostex TH-X00 and HD 6XX on the way)...I'm definitely picking up this amp...



Josh - I did end up joining the drop. My main concern, after reading all of the early impressions:
One or more mentioned that this amp does not really sound very "tubey". That kinda defeats my purpose for it, as I already got a decent SS amp (the Jot)...
I was initially looking at Little Dot Mk3 (same $250 price) or the Feliks Elise (approx $600-700 used on Head-Fi) for a "tube experience". Figured I will join the drop to avoid remorse of missing out on it.


----------



## 10fold

ld100 said:


> Don't rush! This will pop on Massdrop every few weeks for the next three years... No need to rush. I would wait for a review or two after the first drop and initial buzz...



"This drop is limited to 1,000 units. The first 500 purchasers are guaranteed a serial number under 550." 

The drop opened at 6:00am. I set my alarm for 5:45am. Opened up a couple different browsers and hit refresh until the drop open. 
I most definitely wanted to be within the first 500 purchasers. Oh that serial number......


----------



## Levanter

10fold said:


> "This drop is limited to 1,000 units. The first 500 purchasers are guaranteed a serial number under 550."
> 
> The drop opened at 6:00am. I set my alarm for 5:45am. Opened up a couple different browsers and hit refresh until the drop open.
> I most definitely wanted to be within the first 500 purchasers. Oh that serial number......



If the serial number is laser engraved then sure, but if it is just a crappy sticker pasted on like the HD6XX then it's pretty much worthless IMO.


----------



## Josh Englert (Aug 21, 2017)

Zachik said:


> Josh - I did end up joining the drop. My main concern, after reading all of the early impressions:
> One or more mentioned that this amp does not really sound very "tubey". That kinda defeats my purpose for it, as I already got a decent SS amp (the Jot)...
> I was initially looking at Little Dot Mk3 (same $250 price) or the Feliks Elise (approx $600-700 used on Head-Fi) for a "tube experience". Figured I will join the drop to avoid remorse of missing out on it.


Only problem is that full OTL tube amps (Little Dot MKIII) don't play nice with Planars, and are only useful if you have a collection of Sennheisers, or other 250, 300, 600 ohm headphones.  Hybrid designs (Little Dot MarkIII SE) do, then you run into the problem which one sounds better.The only full tube amp (OTL design) that I know of which has been designed from the ground up to work a wide selection of head phones including planars is the Schiit Vallhalla 2... I was looking at it myself, still might consider down the line. The Feliks Elise is a solid option, though that's up to you.


----------



## Zachik

Josh Englert said:


> Only problem is that full OTL tube amps (Little Dot MKIII) don't play nice with Planars, and are only useful if you have a collection of Sennheisers, or other 300 and 600 ohm headphones.  Hybrids like (Little Dot MarkIII SE is fine) do, then you run into the problem which one sounds better... Don't know much about the Feliks Elise (have to look it up), but the only full tube amp that I know of which has been designed from the ground up to work a wide selection of head phones including planars is the Schiit Vallhalla 2...and bonus it's also an OTL design. I was looking at it myself, still might consider down the line.



All good points. Since I already committed to the CTH - I will leave it (and wait for 6+ months...)
I do own the HD600, but everything else I got is in the 30-60 ohms range or so. Will do some research on the Valhalla 2


----------



## MaxPowerZ

I have 3 Cavalli amps (Gold, Carbon V1 & Crimson), I waited for 5+ months for 2 of them and those 2 are the most special to me. There's a uniqueness to the Cavalli experience and patience is part of it. The protection circuit on the Gold takes 2min on startup and all the Cavalli amps need 30+min to sound their best. If you're not up for that, it's fine. Just know that convenience is overrated, just ask vinyl aficionados


----------



## Shetzu

10fold said:


> "This drop is limited to 1,000 units. The first 500 purchasers are guaranteed a serial number under 550."
> 
> The drop opened at 6:00am. I set my alarm for 5:45am. Opened up a couple different browsers and hit refresh until the drop open.
> I most definitely wanted to be within the first 500 purchasers. Oh that serial number......


 I did the same thing. Dot at 6.00am PST i made the drop. For the price 6 months is worth the wait


----------



## Tuneslover

I was very tempted in this drop but I really questioned myself why I would need another amp.  I already have a Project Ember, Jotunheim, Lake People G109S and Vali 2.  Three of those head amps have a dedicated DAC.  I think I'll put my audio savings toward another Modi MB instead.


----------



## Levanter

Tuneslover said:


> I was very tempted in this drop but I really questioned myself why I would need another amp.  I already have a Project Ember, Jotunheim, Lake People G109S and Vali 2.  Three of those head amps have a dedicated DAC.  I think I'll put my audio savings toward another Modi MB instead.



Well based on the few impressions available so far, the CTH is above Ember and Vali 2 if that is enough of a reason for you


----------



## MattRG

A good hyrbid amp should give you some of the strengths of both types (tube and solid state) of amps.  The hyrbrid amp will get along nicely with more types of headphones (including planars and low impedance headphones like the Fostex variants) but still provide some of that "tube"
sound and a touch of warmth.  If all you have experience with is a Jotunheim or other solid state amp then you will be in for a pleasant surprise with just how nice a good hybrid amp can sound when it is done right.  And by all accounts, the new CTH appears to be done right.


----------



## Tuneslover

Levanter said:


> Well based on the few impressions available so far, the CTH is above Ember and Vali 2 if that is enough of a reason for you



Now cut that out


----------



## peter123

Levanter said:


> Well based on the few impressions available so far, the CTH is above Ember and Vali 2 if that is enough of a reason for you



Where did you see the comparison to  the Ember?


----------



## John Q Lin

I still don't get what to look for in amps and dacs in terms specs, what makes a amp or a dac better than another.
I understand some amp will have more power, so it can drive harder to drive headphones, is that the only difference?
I'm talking about solid state vs solid state and tubes vs tubes amps.
what are the key specs to look out for when buying dacs and amps?


----------



## Josh Englert

MattRG said:


> A good hyrbid amp should give you some of the strengths of both types (tube and solid state) of amps.  The hyrbrid amp will get along nicely with more types of headphones (including planars and low impedance headphones like the Fostex variants) but still provide some of that "tube"
> sound and a touch of warmth.  If all you have experience with is a Jotunheim or other solid state amp then you will be in for a pleasant surprise with just how nice a good hybrid amp can sound when it is done right.  And by all accounts, the new CTH appears to be done right.


Couldn't have been said better...and it'll be worth the wait.


----------



## doctorjazz

skasundr said:


> I am really interested in the CTH hybrid tube amp - itching to bite the bullet.  Until I saw this drop, I was considering Linear Tube Audio MZ2, costing $1000 more.  I understand that the latter is a pure tube amplifier, versus the hybrid tube amplifier in the CTH.  Anyone have any insights or personal experiences with either of these two and how they should perform comparatively sound-wise?  I only do about 25% of my listening on headphones, mostly with Grado sr325e and Oppo PM-3, with also an old VModa and a few low-priced IEMs.  I currently have a Dragonfly Red that I use for both DAC and headphone amplifier at this time, but looking to try out some tube taste and the performance with a stronger discrete headphone amplifier.  How would the Dragonfly Red DAC with line out pair to any of these two amplifiers?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.



I obviously can't comment on the Massdrop CTH, haven't heard it. I'm getting the sense that it is similar to the LC, but no one has actually posted a head to head comparison that I've seen going quickly through the thread (Alex seems to have said that the quality of the components will be similar, LC and CTH; doesn't mention power output or sonics, which could differ). I do have LC v1, and an early MicroZOTL2 (which I recently had modified by Mojo audio). My take, having gotten them both about the same time (not considering the ZOTL mods), is that the LC is a fine amp, reasonably priced (or at least it was when it was offered, think you have to find a used one now), good sounding and drives most everything. I think it has a bit of tube warmth designed in, even though it is a solid state design. I found the ZOTL to be better; more air, more detail, better imaging (it has less of that "tube" sound than the LC to my ears). I could live with the LC (and have) just fine; you pay twice as much to get to the ZOTL (and, there are power supply upgrades, tube rolling, that can increase the cost as well). The CTH is considerably less expensive then the LC was; if it's sonics are comparable to the LC, it is a real bargain. That doesn't mean it is better than the ZOTL, but you are now paying about 4 times as much for the improvements (lunatics such as myself will go for it-normal folks will be happy with the price/performance of the bargain Cavalli offerings).
My $0.02, ymmv, and any disclaimer you would like to enter here.


----------



## CJG888

I suppose the obvious competitor here (same price, similar power and tube complement) is the Garage 1217 Project Sunrise 3.1. It would be interesting to read a comparison.


----------



## mdkaler

Massdrop/Alex, any chance you guys can include a Cavalli logo sticker? Something like the big logo on the LC.


----------



## Chaely

sahmen said:


> I am also particularly swayed by the account Dr. Cavalli's has given of his own input in redesigning the older DIY CTH for this project, and for his statement that "The component quality in this amp is equal to the quality in the Liquid Carbon," although I confess I am at some loss as to how to interpret what he calls equal "component quality" given the differences that exist between the technical makeup of the LC and and that this new model (not to mention the fact that the LC itself comes in two different iterations: a Gen 1 and a Gen 2--So to which of the two is Dr Cavalli's statement referring?).
> 
> In what sense might one say the "component quality" of hybrid tube amp with a single-ended topology, is equal to that of a SS amp with a fully balanced topology?  I really can't answer that question, but I am willing to let my ears decide whether the two can match each other pound for pound..., the "devil" being in the so-called details.. and all...



As an engineer, we are always encouraged to make statements that are pleasing to the eye/ear and are most certainly not false.  IMO all he is referring to here is that the quality of the "component" meaning discreet component parts used in the amp is the same as others.  Wishful thinking would make one think circuitry is similar, but what he's factually probably inferring to is the resistor/capacitor/diode/etc. quality/tolerances.  Aka the stitching of your seat in your gremlin is the same thread used as in the Ferrari McLaren.  Absolutely nothing to do with the circuitry unfortunately.


----------



## jerg

Ordered! Oh Lord estimated delivery Feb 2018...I guess I will hibernate for half a year haha.


----------



## BradJ (Aug 16, 2017)

I've just signed up for this one and wondering how they will play with my  setup.  Currently at home have an Rega RP1 turntable with Ortofon Red cart., Marantz PM6004 integrated Amp, and at work an Audio-Technica AT-HA40USB Headphone Amp/DAC off my laptop (iTunes), and for headphones I have a set of Alessandro MS1, AKG K553 Pro and a set of Hifiman HE4XX on order through MD. All these are 32ohm cans and I read that this amp is really only useful driving higher loads.
The way I figure it is that even if I don't get much from this amp now, if/when I invest in something like a set of HD600's I'll have the amp ready to go.
Thoughts?

Edit: sorry I might add that I intend on connecting this headphone amp up via the RCA out's (Recorder 1) from the Marantz Amp, and using the phono stage of the PM6004. Again is this wise? I can't see any other way of doing it other than getting a dedicated phono pre-amp.


----------



## thatonenoob (Aug 17, 2017)

Zachik said:


> Josh - I did end up joining the drop. My main concern, after reading all of the early impressions:
> One or more mentioned that this amp does not really sound very "tubey". That kinda defeats my purpose for it, as I already got a decent SS amp (the Jot)...
> I was initially looking at Little Dot Mk3 (same $250 price) or the Feliks Elise (approx $600-700 used on Head-Fi) for a "tube experience". Figured I will join the drop to avoid remorse of missing out on it.



I frankly could not recommend the Feliks Elise more***.  It's just so good.


----------



## jimpx10

L0rdGwyn said:


> That would be nice!  6 months is a long time.  I am itching to get a tube hybrid, the way I see it, I have 16 days to change my mind, maybe I'll trial the Lyr 2 in the mean time



You may already of thought of this, but if it reaches the limit before 16 days they will close the drop, so you should keep an eye on the count sold. I have nearly been caught on this before, almost made a purchase that I decided I didn't want...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

jimpx10 said:


> You may already of thought of this, but if it reaches the limit before 16 days they will close the drop, so you should keep an eye on the count sold. I have nearly been caught on this before, almost made a purchase that I decided I didn't want...



Thanks for the heads up! But I actually already withdrew, decided to go for the Lyr 2, now happily perusing the tube rolling threads


----------



## thatonenoob

I just need to know if this is better than the LC.  And if it is, why was the LC comparatively* expensive to start heheh....unless it's something about production volume.

Edited


----------



## Zachik

thatonenoob said:


> I frankly could not recommend the Feliks Elise more***.  It's just so good.



Since discussing the Elise on this thread is off-topic, I will PM you shortly...


----------



## Shawnb

thatonenoob said:


> I just need to know if this is better than the LC.  And if it is, why was the LC comparatively* expensive to start heheh....unless it's something about production volume.
> 
> Edited



Better is subjective. You can't really say something is better without testing it yourself.
I have a LC, I Still ordered one of these not cause it'll be better but cause it'll be different. I'm considering it a cheap starting to get into tubes.


----------



## thatonenoob

The concept of better should exist if there is a price differential.  Otherwise it should be the same price in my opinion.  But that's just me.  The concept of spending may be subjective to some.


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 18, 2017)

Any dac options im a gamer and i decided to buy a new amp because i need to find out if my la figaro 339 is up to par i do find a great deal of difference in comparison of with/without the amp, but im a complete newb with tubes and amps and i actually received my la figaro damaged years ago (its majn problem is the volume knobs need a little messing around with to get the amp functioning....) So i had some money for a new amp and i joined this drop. I own a dragonfly red dac and it sounds good but i was interested in a new dac around $250 or less and I saw the sennheiser gsx 1000/1200 and i was wondering if it could make for a great of both worlds purchase(gaming and music) any suggestions would be nice and i hope A/B the la figaro 339 and CTH with a new dac and my HD650s.


----------



## Roscoeiii (Aug 19, 2017)

Right at $250, the Modi Multibit (Mimby) is very popular here and on other forums. From some folks who have heard the CTH and posted on audio forums, the recommendation I have seen is that the CTH pairs best with darker or warmer DACs (such as the Mimby), rather than a colder, or more treble emphasized DAC (such as a Sabre DAC chip).


----------



## Shetzu

Roscoeiii said:


> Right at $250, the Modi Multibit (Mimby) is very popular here and on other forums. From some folks who have heard the CTH and posted on audio forums, the recommendation I have seen is that the CTH pairs best with darker or warmer amps (such as the Mimby), rather than a colder, or more treble emphasized DAC (such as a Sabre DAC chip).


I just hope the CTH will do well with the Senn. Always wanted a tube sound. CTH is an amp and you mentioned pairing well with warmer amps. I am confused. Could you elaborate a bit


----------



## peter123

I'd still be interested in comparison to the Ember II if anyone has both.


----------



## Levanter

Shetzu said:


> I just hope the CTH will do well with the Senn. Always wanted a tube sound. CTH is an amp and you mentioned pairing well with warmer amps. I am confused. Could you elaborate a bit



He mean't warmer DACs. If you always wanted tube sound, a OTL tube amp would be a much better choice than a hybrid like this.


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 19, 2017)

Levanter said:


> He mean't warmer DACs. If you always wanted tube sound, a OTL tube amp would be a much better choice than a hybrid like this.


 Agree. I wanted to buy woo audio but thought first let me get this cavalli hybrid CTH for a great price and later shift to higher.


----------



## Shetzu

rockytopwiz said:


> Looking for an amp to go with my used hd800 I just bought.  I'd like to keep my budget under $300.  Would this be the best choice?  Or would I be better off going with a non-hybrid like a darkcvoice or little dot?


This is good amp and will go well with HD800.


----------



## peter123

Shetzu said:


> This is good amp and will go well with HD800.



What other amps have you compared it to?


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 19, 2017)

peter123 said:


> What other amps have you compared it to?


I have been using my Hd 800 with Burson & Chord Mojo combination and it is outstanding. I felt for trying out the tube amp and for this price opted to buy the CTH. But I have my mind set on Woo audio Wa6 SE which would be target  in days to come. I haven't yet made any comparisons.


----------



## peter123

Shetzu said:


> I have been using my Hd 800 with Burson & Chord Mojo combination and it is outstanding. I felt for trying out the tube amp and for this price opted to buy the CTH. But I have my mind set on Woo audio Wa6 SE which would be target  in days to come. I haven't yet made any comparisons.



Ok, thanks for clarifying. I find this to make your earlier statement that this is a good amp and will pair well with the HD800 a bit unreliable since you haven't yet heard it but at least I know that now.


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 19, 2017)

peter123 said:


> Ok, thanks for clarifying. I find this to make your earlier statement that this is a good amp and will pair well with the HD800 a bit unreliable since you haven't yet heard it but at least I know that now.


It was because I feel many have said good things about its combination with hd 800.
by the way you have had a great review thread going and I like it. hope to see more additional gear in your thread.


----------



## peter123

Shetzu said:


> It was because I feel many have said good things about its combination with hd 800.
> by the way you have had a great review thread going and I like it. hope to see more additional gear in your thread.




That's clear to me now, I'd guess I was just hyped for more first hand experiences  

Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Real life has been a bit crazy lately but I hope so start adding more reviews again really soon now


----------



## Roscoeiii

Shetzu said:


> I just hope the CTH will do well with the Senn. Always wanted a tube sound. CTH is an amp and you mentioned pairing well with warmer amps. I am confused. Could you elaborate a bit



Oops. Typo. Should have said DAC. Corrected it.


----------



## John Q Lin

Will I experience a audio quality upgrade if I get this, I currently have a grace m9xx


----------



## wazzupi

So any doubts about pairing this amp with sennheisers gsx 1000/1200 ?


----------



## Levanter

Some internal info fr Cavalli:

1.) The description says the 6922 triode stages are cap coupled.. What cap type did you use? Not just the dielectric material but the manufacturer too if possible pls? Is the value widely available?
Wima, polypropylene film. Widely available.

2.) If it the triode sections are cathode biased, do they use electrolytic cathode bypass caps? Or are they left unbypassed (some local feedback - apart from the global one?)
Bypassed with electrolytics.

3.) Is the solid state output capacitively coupled too? Do they use electrolytics as output coupling caps?
No. The SS buffer is directly (DC) coupled to the headphones.

4.) Is the SMPS wallwart an off the shelf item? Or are they custom designed for the amp? What is done to filter out and decouple any HF hash that the SMPS may impart to the signal?
It is not off the shelf. There is a simple filter circuit at the DC input jack.

5) electronic components are not "cheap Chinese junk." They are all spec'd from manufacturers such as Panasonic, Nichicon, Vishay, OnSemi, Fairchild, Bourns, etc.


----------



## Shetzu

Levanter said:


> Some internal info fr Cavalli:
> 
> 1.) The description says the 6922 triode stages are cap coupled.. What cap type did you use? Not just the dielectric material but the manufacturer too if possible pls? Is the value widely available?
> Wima, polypropylene film. Widely available.
> ...



Thats informative Thanks.


----------



## Zachik

I have attended the SF meet yesterday (will try to post my notes later today on the appropriate thread), but will add my impressions here on the CTH:
@CEE TEE showed up (he's a great guy, BTW) with the CTH. Obviously, a pre-production unit, but looked like a production unit (not like a prototype).
The CTH was connected at @zach915m (ZMF Headphones) table. Since I already joined the drop on day 1, and been eyeing the ZMF Atticus headphones for a while, I figured I would audition how they sound together...
Coming from a guy who likes warm and smooth sound - this is a great match!! 
Not that I needed more convincing to get the Atticus, but now that I am committed on the CTH - I am definitely going to buy the Atticus as well (hopefully, sooner rather than later) 
Not only the sound signature of the combo was so great in my opinion, but the amp definitely had TONS of power to drive this 300 ohms beauty.
I was not paying enough attention, but I believe I was on 50% of the volume pot and already the music was getting too loud...
I will post a photo later, if there is any interest


----------



## aqsw (Aug 20, 2017)

Regarding the poster who said " planars could not be used with FA otl amps"
Not true at all. The Feliks pairs well with planars. Have used mine with Audeze and Oppos.
Trust a person that has actually used the equipment.

Two very different amps and price range though. They should not be compared.


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> I have attended the SF meet yesterday (will try to post my notes later today on the appropriate thread), but will add my impressions here on the CTH:
> @CEE TEE showed up (he's a great guy, BTW) with the CTH. Obviously, a pre-production unit, but looked like a production unit (not like a prototype).
> The CTH was connected at @zach915m (ZMF Headphones) table. Since I already joined the drop on day 1, and been eyeing the ZMF Atticus headphones for a while, I figured I would audition how they sound together...
> Coming from a guy who likes warm and smooth sound - this is a great match!!
> ...


Hey good but you have spoken more about the Headphones except for the Volume of CTH. Could you please provide more impressions about the CTH. Thanks


----------



## Zachik

Shetzu said:


> Hey good but you have spoken more about the Headphones except for the Volume of CTH. Could you please provide more impressions about the CTH. Thanks



I have only audition the CTH with that 1 headphone, so can only provide impressions for that specific combo 
It was using the 1/4" (6.3mm) jack, btw. Not the XLR4 (but then again the XLR4 is NOT balanced so should sound similar).
I do get your point - was it smooth and warm because of the headphone, amp, or both? I guess I do not know. Sorry.
I guess my only reference point is using the same headphones with the Feliks Audio Euforia (also at ZMF's table). Not surprising - that match was great too.
It is hard for me to compare, at the meet conditions, whether the Euforia (that cost 5 times more) sounded better or not. I liked both (10 minutes listen at available conditions).

Maybe Zach @zach915m who has the most intimate familiarity with his creation could comment about the CTH. He would know best how that amp compares to other amps with his Atticus (or Eikon).

My personal take-away:
The CTH sounds great, to my tastes, and unlike other tube (OTL) amps - will match well with my planar magnetic and low-impedance headphones (which are most of my collection). Last part of that take-away is based on early impressions by others that low impedance and planars match well with the CTH.


----------



## aqsw

peter123 said:


> Ok, thanks for clarifying. I find this to make your earlier statement that this is a good amp and will pair well with the HD800 a bit unreliable since you haven't yet heard it but at least I know that now.



Funny how people have never heard the amps or dacs, but can state that planars don't work with this amp, or this amp is fabulous..
Oh well???


----------



## AxelCloris

aqsw said:


> Funny how people have never heard the amps or dacs, but can state that planars don't work with this amp, or this amp is fabulous..
> Oh well???


But several people have heard the amp. Some were sent out to early reviewers and the amp was at the San Francisco meet this weekend.


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> I have only audition the CTH with that 1 headphone, so can only provide impressions for that specific combo
> It was using the 1/4" (6.3mm) jack, btw. Not the XLR4 (but then again the XLR4 is NOT balanced so should sound similar).
> I do get your point - was it smooth and warm because of the headphone, amp, or both? I guess I do not know. Sorry.
> I guess my only reference point is using the same headphones with the Feliks Audio Euforia (also at ZMF's table). Not surprising - that match was great too.
> ...


Thanks for your inputs


----------



## canali

AxelCloris said:


> But several people have heard the amp. Some were sent out to early reviewers and the amp was at the San Francisco meet this weekend.



hope they'll come on here and share their opinions.


----------



## mdkaler

Ordered on the first day, one of the first 500. But sigh life got tough and budget got shifted. Dropped out from the drop


----------



## 10fold (Aug 21, 2017)

wazzupi said:


> Any dac options im a gamer and i decided to buy a new amp because i need to find out if my la figaro 339 is up to par i do find a great deal of difference in comparison of with/without the amp, but im a complete newb with tubes and amps and i actually received my la figaro damaged years ago (its majn problem is the volume knobs need a little messing around with to get the amp functioning....) So i had some money for a new amp and i joined this drop. I own a dragonfly red dac and it sounds good but i was interested in a new dac around $250 or less and I saw the sennheiser gsx 1000/1200 and i was wondering if it could make for a great of both worlds purchase(gaming and music) any suggestions would be nice and i hope A/B the la figaro 339 and CTH with a new dac and my HD650s.




SMSL Sanskrit 6th DAC


----------



## Zachik

10fold said:


> SMSL Sanskrit 6th DAC



Any additional sub-$500 suggestions for a DAC to pair with the CTH?
Would the Bimby (used goes for sub-$500) be a good match? How about Chord Mojo?


----------



## cardeli22

Zachik said:


> Any additional sub-$500 suggestions for a DAC to pair with the CTH?
> Would the Bimby (used goes for sub-$500) be a good match? How about Chord Mojo?


Depending what forum you ask in (the Bimby forum or the Mojo forum, etc...) you may get different answers. I have demoed the Mojo and, while I enjoyed the sound, I found the RF noise to be to loud and distracting. Depending where you are and what equipment is paired with it, the RF noise can get too much. The Dac section in the Centrance DACportslim/HD is very good and only costs 100-200$ depending on which of the two you pick.


----------



## Zachik

cardeli22 said:


> Depending what forum you ask in (the Bimby forum or the Mojo forum, etc...) you may get different answers. I have demoed the Mojo and, while I enjoyed the sound, I found the RF noise to be to loud and distracting. Depending where you are and what equipment is paired with it, the RF noise can get too much. The Dac section in the Centrance DACportslim/HD is very good and only costs 100-200$ depending on which of the two you pick.



I am asking here, because I know that in a specific DAC thread - that DAC would be the only recommendation I get 
Never heard of Centrance... will have to do some reading. Is it any better than Schiit Modi ($99) that I actually have (been sitting unused for a while)?


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> I am asking here, because I know that in a specific DAC thread - that DAC would be the only recommendation I get
> Never heard of Centrance... will have to do some reading. Is it any better than Schiit Modi ($99) that I actually have (been sitting unused for a while)?


Correct but you still have to look into DAC threads. This thread is exclusively for Massdrop  Tube Hybrid Alex Cavalli Amp as the title says.  Rest is upto to you


----------



## Zachik

Shetzu said:


> Correct but you still have to look into DAC threads. This thread is exclusively for Massdrop  Tube Hybrid Alex Cavalli Amp as the title says.  Rest is upto to you



That's fair. I wanted to know what DACs people plan to pair with the CTH, but I guess it is mostly going to be guesswork, when it comes to how well they would match...

I think a better and more focused / on-topic question would be:
For the people that *already auditioned* the CTH - which DACs have you used? (and what do you think about the match?)


----------



## Roscoeiii

Zachik said:


> That's fair. I wanted to know what DACs people plan to pair with the CTH, but I guess it is mostly going to be guesswork, when it comes to how well they would match...
> 
> I think a better and more focused / on-topic question would be:
> For the people that *already auditioned* the CTH - which DACs have you used? (and what do you think about the match?)



There are recommendations out there from people who received advance unit. Both Head-fiers and other enthusiasts. I summarized what I'd seen from what I've been able to find earlier. Anyone who has gotten an advance version got it with the expectation that they'd be posting impressions and providing input for good DACs and headphone pairings. Just gotta track those folks down. One place I'd look, which I haven't, is the Massdrop thread itself.


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> I am asking here, because I know that in a specific DAC thread - that DAC would be the only recommendation I get
> Never heard of Centrance... will have to do some reading. Is it any better than Schiit Modi ($99) that I actually have (been sitting unused for a while)?



I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:

Bimby Pros:
Smooth analog sound.
Outstanding timbre.
Can sound very, very transparent at times. The most transparent of the three.
Really excels at rendering acoustic instruments, voices, etc.

Bimby Cons:
Powered by the wall, if your AC power sucks and you don't have a good power conditioner, your DAC will suck too.
Lacks the dynamic range of the other two, slightly smoothed over up top and not as black on the bottom.
Lacks the impact and physicality of the other two.

Mojo Pros:
Extremely crisp attack and decay.
Fairly spacious with sharp imaging.
Great dynamics and very solid impact.
Very clear, detailed, high-resolution sound, especially with higher res files. It's a fun sound to listen to.
Ultra versatile and portable. Fits in your pocket, can step up and hold its own with a high-end amp or 2-channel system.

Mojo Cons:
The USB input isn't galvanically isolated from the computer's USB output (but workarounds are available)
Battery life is kinda short (6-7 hours), unless you keep it plugged in.
Timbre can be a touch metallic at times, not as natural as the other two.

iDSD Black Label Pros:
The most impact and physicality of the three.
Warm, natural timbre.
The most deep inner detail of the three.
Transparency is just a hair behind Bimby, but dynamics on iDSD BL are clearly better.
Legit power to drive pretty much any headphone.

iDSD Black Label Cons:
Weird USB input type (but the best USB implementation).
Can be finicky about charging, must make sure the charging light engages or it will run on battery power.
Not as pocket friendly as Mojo.

If you want big, powerful dynamics with great timbre and impact: iDSD BL.
If you want a smooth, sweet sound with excellent transparency: Bimby.
If you want a fun sound with very crisp clarity and stunning imaging: Mojo.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...



I hate you lol if i dont like the bimby ill return it and save for mojo


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...



Dude - amazing summary!!! Thanks


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...



Posted a bit too fast... wanted to add:
The big question is (and I hope someone can jump in and answer) - *how do those 3 DACs match with the CTH?* 
(unless @Hansotek your comparison was already using the CTH, as opposed to a generic DAC-only comparison)


----------



## Vansen

Okay, I’m back from making the rounds on the West Coast and backpacking around the John Muir Trail and Yosemite!

In my impressions from the road, I previously noted that with HE-500 and a hot source (Modi MB) the CTH would activate the protection circuit if I turned the volume well past my comfortable listening levels. The HE-500 is my hardest headphone to drive. Not as hard to drive as an HE-6 but much harder to drive than a Sennheiser.

I tried this without the headphones on to see what would happen/how far I could turn the pot. Alex has stated that there is protection circuit will activate if the amp sees a current level that it deems as potentially damaging to headphones.

Testing this specifically again since I just got home, here is how hard I can drive my HE-500 (NOT on my head):
-With RSA F-117 phono preamp at it's normal minimum gain setting while being fed from an Ortofon 2M Blue cart, I was able to get full range on the volume pot without activating the protection circuit on the CTH. At max volume, the HE-500 was able to produce about 102 decibels as measured by an iPhone app with the microphone placed near the point where an ear would be.
-With a Modi MB, which has a higher output level than the RSA F-117 at its minimum gain setting, I can get the volume pot to the 4 o'clock position before the protection circuit kicks in. At this point, the HE-500 produces about 106 decibels before the protection circuit activates.

I cannot really think of any sane person that would listen to music at these levels. Actually, OSHA's 29 CFR 1910.95 (Occupational Noise Exposure) lists that hearing protection be required for 106 decibels if exposure to this sound level exceeds 52 minutes over an eight hour period (as a weighted average).

Also, as update to another comment I made about the CTH…

When I say I listen to music at lower volumes than 90% of most listeners, I mean it. When I listen to music on my JH13 or Noble X from an iPhone, my sustained listening is done on the second or third bar. Also, I had to return a DragonFly Red and Black because the volume was too loud for me at the lowest setting on both of these with IEMs. (I've complained about this with the DFR in this forum several times.) I find this experience of mine to be true with full sized headphones, too. Perhaps I'm in the >99% category rather than the 90% category here. Regardless, the CTH was able to deliver balanced volume levels at low listening volumes while offering me the control I desire.


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> Posted a bit too fast... wanted to add:
> The big question is (and I hope someone can jump in and answer) - *how do those 3 DACs match with the CTH?*
> (unless @Hansotek your comparison was already using the CTH, as opposed to a generic DAC-only comparison)



I haven't listened to them on the CTH, but I would expect those aspects of the sound would hold up. For what it's worth I've probably heard those devices through, a dozen different amps, at least. I haven't A/B'ed them on all of them... not by a long shot, but those subtle aspects of the sound seem to hold up in terms of the characteristics I mentioned above. Also, FWIW, I've heard Bimby and Mojo on the Liquid Carbon, Gold, Glass and Crimson (plus the Mojo on the Tungsten... wow)... so I have a pretty decent idea of how they mesh with Alex's amps. 

IMO, any of the three ought to serve you well, it just comes down to what you value most in the sound.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> I haven't listened to them on the CTH, but I would expect those aspects of the sound would hold up. For what it's worth I've probably heard those devices through, a dozen different amps, at least. I haven't A/B'ed them on all of them... not by a long shot, but those subtle aspects of the sound seem to hold up in terms of the characteristics I mentioned above. Also, FWIW, I've heard Bimby and Mojo on the Liquid Carbon, Gold, Glass and Crimson (plus the Mojo on the Tungsten... wow)... so I have a pretty decent idea of how they mesh with Alex's amps.
> 
> IMO, any of the three ought to serve you well, it just comes down to what you value most in the sound.



Thanks! Very very useful info.


----------



## buke9

Mojo and Tungsten Wow. I think this was more Wow. I have joined the drop and will be splitting time on the Yggy and the Mojo myself. Still waiting for the Liquid Ambiance ( hate the name but sounds damn good).


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> That's fair. I wanted to know what DACs people plan to pair with the CTH, but I guess it is mostly going to be guesswork, when it comes to how well they would match...
> 
> I think a better and more focused / on-topic question would be:
> For the people that *already auditioned* the CTH - which DACs have you used? (and what do you think about the match?)


I guess we all have to wait for awhile til we get our own CTH amps delivered. Maybe, many have not been able to audition it. You have been lucky to audition it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Check out the top two drops, lol.


----------



## Shetzu

iPhone IEM said:


> Check out the top two drops, lol.


I could not understand your pun


----------



## Fox2twenty

Not really a pun


----------



## Fox2twenty

I'm sure you understand now.


----------



## Shetzu

iPhone IEM said:


> I'm sure you understand now.


You mean the long wait. Yeah for the price it's worth it I guess


----------



## Fox2twenty

Shetzu said:


> You mean the long wait. Yeah for the price it's worth it I guess



I hope it is a rotating drop... I really want this amp and the 4xx.. Can't afford to right now.. Cest LA vie


----------



## Shetzu

iPhone IEM said:


> I hope it is a rotating drop... I really want this amp and the 4xx.. Can't afford to right now.. Cest LA vie


My  wishes are with you hope you can get both of them.at least you can try for one item


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I like the idea of this drop, but the six month wait is profoundly disappointing. If I wanted an amp like this today, it would be a Vali Lyr question. So much of this hobby consists of the proverbial drunk purchases you shouldn't have made that the ability to wake up every morning for half a year and consider and opt for the cheaper Vali (ships in 1-3 business days) saps much of the justifiable excitement. I heard it at the SF Meet and, yes I own more expensive gear, but it did not leave an impression on me. Whether it justifies its price (i'm inclined to say it does), justifying the wait is the much larger hurdle, and it seems to come up short on that count.

When I drunkpurchased my new espresso machine, it was thrilling to see that it would arrive via fedex in three days. It is such a good espresso machine. I am not the least bit over the portafilter. (Imagine a gumby plus one LISST for the price of a Mjolnir 2, $50 off. Yeah.)



Roscoeiii said:


> Right at $250, the Modi Multibit (Mimby) is very popular here and on other forums. From some folks who have heard the CTH and posted on audio forums, the recommendation I have seen is that the CTH pairs best with darker or warmer DACs (such as the Mimby), rather than a colder, or more treble emphasized DAC (such as a Sabre DAC chip).



I hate Sabre DAC. It is the most sibilant, harsh, DAC I can recall having had the displeasure of auditioning. It ruined the Ether E for me. It qualifies, as Mike Moffatt might put it, as thoroughgoing hemorrhoidal ass.



Hansotek said:


> Mojo Cons:
> The USB input isn't *galvanically isolated* from the computer's USB output (but workarounds are available)


you mean electromagnetically and electrostatically isolated? Galvanic isolation is a meaningless buzzword.


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 24, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I like the idea of this drop, but the six month wait is profoundly disappointing. If I wanted an amp like this today, it would be a Vali Lyr question. So much of this hobby consists of the proverbial drunk purchases you shouldn't have made that the ability to wake up every morning for half a year and consider and opt for the cheaper Vali (ships in 1-3 business days) saps much of the justifiable excitement. I heard it at the SF Meet and, yes I own more expensive gear, but it did not leave an impression on me. Whether it justifies its price (i'm inclined to say it does), justifying the wait is the much larger hurdle, and it seems to come up short on that count.
> 
> When I drunkpurchased my new espresso machine, it was thrilling to see that it would arrive via fedex in three days. It is such a good espresso machine. I am not the least bit over the portafilter. (Imagine a gumby plus one LISST for the price of a Mjolnir 2, $50 off. Yeah.)
> 
> ...


Yeah agree with you that a 6 month wait is disappointing.  For $250 I still feel it is worth it or a gift for  a family member who wants to get into audiophile community. Many youngsters are are realising the potential of  good HD music and equipment. Considering these factors it is worth a wait. My existing gear too is way up for this amp but i have had something else in my mind for purchasing this hybrid. First was to get a feel of Tube sound and second  if tubes suit me I may target something good in tube amps for my gear .

Perhaps Massdrop has a motive to delay this order. First is to get numbers in customers and get better distributor discounts on bulk order. Second the manufacturing may take time.


----------



## Zachik

Shetzu said:


> Perhaps Massdrop has a motive to delay this order. First is to get numbers in customers and get better distributor discounts on bulk order. Second the manufacturing may take time.



I had the pleasure to chat with @CEE TEE on that subject. According to him, the biggest issue is the lead times on some of the components.
Since the alternative IMHO is use "compatible" components (and compromise sound quality) - I would rather wait... as hard as it is...


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> you mean electromagnetically and electrostatically isolated? Galvanic isolation is a meaningless buzzword.



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+galvanic+isolation?


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> I had the pleasure to chat with @CEE TEE on that subject. According to him, the biggest issue is the lead times on some of the components.
> Since the alternative IMHO is use "compatible" components (and compromise sound quality) - I would rather wait... as hard as it is...


Cool. 'Tsk for the update


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Hansotek said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+galvanic+isolation?



Let me quote the Steve Jobs of digital audio at length, as I think his words carry more weight than my own:


Baldr said:


> RE* USB* galvanic isolation:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/1890#post_12354184





Baldr said:


> Galvanic Isolation?? What is Galvanic Isolation?? Oh, a Buzzword?? What is a Buzzword?? OK, OK, I am an ancient audio guy. Back in the day, we didn’t have any such term as “buzzword”. There were feature lists on audio gear, i.e., does it have a mute button, usually describing black/white, there or not existing functions of the product. Simple. Not confusing.
> 
> Well, it along the way we at Schiit have said we were and were not galvanically isolated. Seems like I need to clear this up.
> 
> ...





Baldr said:


> I must apologize if I elevated "galvanic isolation" to the lofty area of a buzzword.  I maintain that its circular and lack of rigorous definition lowers it to a true factoid, that is it resembles a fact but is anything but.  Not to be pugilistic - one of my pet peeves is the employ of vague in an engineering sense parlance as valuable.  It even snagged me until I thought and researched it through.





Baldr said:


> Amen.  "Galvanic Isoation" needs qualifiers and additional descriptors.  "Transformer coupled" is specific.





Baldr said:


> (snip)
> 
> Rant: I HATE the term "galvanic isolation". I don't give a flying phuc that it has a wiki page. It is a factoid. What is a factoid? Well, a humanoid is a something which looks human, but really isn't. A factoid is something is appears a fact, but really is not/vague. /Rant





Baldr said:


> Galvanic is an adjectivoid (Something which resembles an adjective but really deescribes nothing) in any use other than describing the use of zinc plating of steel trash cans or rain gutters.  An empty suit descriptor which has morphed into a buzzword/bulletpoint with neither buzz nor meaning.
> 
> 
> *I stand amazed at the frequency of its use.*





Baldr said:


> (snip)
> Galvanic isolation as an adjectivoid. That is, it sound like it describes something; it describes nothing. It does not specify if it is isolated at DC, AC, what frequencies, etc. etc. A waste of written/spoken space. Kinda like marketing an antivenin without any spec on which snake, scorpion, or spider for which it is effective.
> 
> Further, even if it is isolated at DC and all AC frequencies, it is useless as a model to predict interference in USB inputs. There are also *electrostatic* and *electromagnetic* modes of isolation, which no one ever specifies. Our lab performance has the former in greater than one kilovolt and the latter in the high nanoamp region.





Baldr said:


> Not forbidden - it's like the word "irregardless" or "onliest".





Baldr said:


> Now, I admit I am a product of ancient engineering school, but I was taught that if a circuit out and in are not free of mutual electrostatic and electromagnetic energy they ain't isolated.  High dv/dt emfs routinely found in "Galvanically Isolated" USB signals can jump right across where they aren't desired.  Kinda like the made with white meat (thanks Jase) descriptor on chicken nuggets from a famous purveyor of burgers.  *White maggot meat*?  Or were some white parts from segmented creatures with compound eyes placed on the machine _with_ the Nugget pressings from softened bone?  Galvanically Isolated - like a rubber made from screen door material.





Baldr said:


> The situation is that the Eitr is isolated – *electrostatically* and *electromagnetically*. NOT some totally meaningless term such as trash can plating* "galvanic" isolation *such as some deekhead wrote a wiki about which has nothing to do with isolation cited in proper undergrad and grad school textbooks. Because of that, there is no, none, nada electrical connection between the input and output USB and coax, respectively. (In fact, there is double isolation – two rubbers just to be through.) What still exists, however, is capacitance. This is the stuff that gives you a shock in the winter when you walk across the carpet and touch the grounded doorknob. Even when there is no shock building up, the capacitance still is there.
> (snip)


----------



## AxelCloris

We're getting off topic here, let's bring it back to the CTH please.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Let me quote the Steve Jobs of digital audio at length, as I think his words carry more weight than my own:



This is all off topic, but he says this, "Now the most examples of Schiit USB have USB bus powered USB sections which were isolated from the separate power of the DAC itself. *The grounds had series inductors to isolate the electrical USB groud slop from the DAC ground. There went the stray clock currents.* At the time, seemed to be galvanically isolated to me." ... so he engineers around one of the big pitfalls of USB and then erects a straw man from a questionably relevant piece of data so he can continue his angry rant anyway. Uh... okay, bud.

Oh yeah, and they sell the Wyrd, which also cuts the current from the USB and replaces it with a more stable one. So there seems to be quite a rift between words and actions.

I don't know, maybe I missed something. FWIW, I think Mike makes pretty nice DACs.

Now, I'm not saying these things will make a difference on every setup - but if the USB port isn't so hot you might get a little touch of interference every once in a great while. Overall, this is an issue that is pretty overblown. So in that respect we can agree that it's mostly buzzy BS.

That aside, the part you should really be paying attention to in his above rant is that USB absolutely sucks for transporting audio, and you should really be using S/PDIF or TOSlink, if possible.


----------



## Josh Englert

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...


Very helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Shetzu

Was anyone able to audition the Auderez LCD-2 with the CTH at SFO Camjam. Any impressions would be welcome.


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 25, 2017)

Hansotek said:


> This is all off topic, but he says this, "Now the most examples of Schiit USB have USB bus powered USB sections which were isolated from the separate power of the DAC itself. *The grounds had series inductors to isolate the electrical USB groud slop from the DAC ground. There went the stray clock currents.* At the time, seemed to be galvanically isolated to me." ... so he engineers around one of the big pitfalls of USB and then erects a straw man from a questionably relevant piece of data so he can continue his angry rant anyway. Uh... okay, bud.
> 
> Oh yeah, and they sell the Wyrd, which also cuts the current from the USB and replaces it with a more stable one. So there seems to be quite a rift between words and actions.
> 
> ...


There are many theories out there and many perceptions about USB spikes etc. Some even say use Ferrite around the cable to kill noise. However, good quality cables like those made by Audioquest has helped and many users are happy. It is just like all audiophile industry using expensive cables for HPs and gear to get that ultimate detortion free sound. So these days portables have separate USB port for charging & audio. Since USB ports on the PC tend to charge the dac it is possible of heat generation. But if your DAC has separate usb port for audio it does not get hot and there is no interference.
Sorry for being off topic. 
On the other hand I am sure the CTH  is a great amp and having good power may be able to drive some decent HP. I am waiting for some audition of the CTH with the Audreze LCD-2 which I plan to buy next year.


----------



## Skooks

ProfFalkin said:


> I'd suggest pumping the breaks, doing research, and making a confident and informed decision.  Right now it looks like you'd end up unhappy with any purchase due to the uncertainties you have.
> 
> Not sure why the rush.
> 
> So, if I had to pick one you listed, I'd say... Neither, go w/ Bottlehead Crack+SB.  (Easier & cheaper to tube roll which is a plus.)



I have used all tubes and all solid state in my system with Audeze LCD-3F's... and at the present time, I am using a Cavalli Liquid Carbon... it is a great fit with the LCD-3F's... great music! I also use the Oppo UDP-205 as my DAC. My whole system is balanced and using those great Norne Audio cables. This is my best system to date without spending $15G's. But, if I was going back to an all tube headphone amp... the best I've had is the Little Dot VI Plus... and for $800, it just can't be beat! It is a winner! That's my humble opinion.


----------



## majo123

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...



Very interesting I own mojo and was considering buying black label, reading your post has made me more happy with my decision.
Hope you don't mind but i would like to post your opinion on a different thread to someone who may be interested as there aren't many with experience of all three.


----------



## gmahler2u

Shipping date for this amp feb..
..hmmmmm it's almost September....ill wait.


----------



## wazzupi

Hansotek said:


> I've owned Bimby, Mojo and the iFi iDSD Black Label, which are three popular choices in that category. Everybody obviously has slightly different requirements for their DAC, and there are tons of variables that weigh into the final sound, from wall power quality to USB cable to the USB output on your computer. Quantitative scoring aside, I can tell you what the different qualitative differences are between the DACs and perhaps that will help:
> 
> Bimby Pros:
> Smooth analog sound.
> ...


Im considering returning my mimby and canceling my CTH order for a Mojo. I can get it now and use my original Tube amp. The mojo is suppose to sound great alone, its portable but from your description of the sound the Mojo is what I'm looking for except for that timbre- metallic isn't what I want to hear ;P.


----------



## Hansotek

wazzupi said:


> Im considering returning my mimby and canceling my CTH order for a Mojo. I can get it now and use my original Tube amp. The mojo is suppose to sound great alone, its portable but from your description of the sound the Mojo is what I'm looking for except for that timbre- metallic isn't what I want to hear ;P.



When I say slightly metallic, that manifests in ways like the strings being a touch more forward on the guitar than the woody sound of the body (compared to other DACs). It leans just a pinch more into the transient snap of the attack than the resonance (which I would call "woody")... at least that's the way I hear it. Tubes do tend to add some natural warmth that, fleshing it out a bit. Just to be clear, I don't mean that it's hard and harsh like a poorly done Sabre DAC. If it sounded like that, I wouldn't own it or recommend it. 

Feel free to PM me if you want to pick my brain about it. I don't want to derail the thread.


----------



## project86

Better late than never...

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-tube-hybrid-amp-cth


----------



## buke9

Sounds like the wait might be worth it. Have yet to hear a Cavalli amp I didn't like to be honest.


----------



## Shetzu

project86 said:


> Better late than never...
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-tube-hybrid-amp-cth


yeah saw that.  looks good


----------



## project86

Thank you! It's definitely a nice amp. People who can stomach the long wait are in for a real treat.


----------



## Shetzu

project86 said:


> Thank you! It's definitely a nice amp. People who can stomach the long wait are in for a real treat.


I am sure looking forward to that treat.


----------



## buke9

Waited that long for the Liquid Carbon it was worth it.


----------



## canthearyou

I can only imagine how many more they would've sold if they a ship date before Christmas. Hell, I probably would've bought 2!


----------



## aristos_achaion

I'd be very tempted if I didn't already have a DIY CTH. As it is, it seems like it'd be too similar to justify even if it is an improved design.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have a Liquid Carbon v1, still can't figure out if this is worthwhile having an LC...


----------



## Sharkhunter

doctorjazz said:


> I have a Liquid Carbon v1, still can't figure out if this is worthwhile having an LC...


I had the same dilemma, but ended up selling  LC and joined this drop. You can always buy LC from the classifieds if u decide otherwise.


----------



## sahmen

So exactly how many of these units ended up getting sold?  I couldn't check the tally on the final day.


----------



## Levanter

sahmen said:


> So exactly how many of these units ended up getting sold?  I couldn't check the tally on the final day.



800+


----------



## Zachik

Levanter said:


> 800+


Personally, I am surprised they did not sellout the entire 1000.


----------



## purk

Zachik said:


> Personally, I am surprised they did not sellout the entire 1000.



In a way, you can also buy a very good used headphones for less than $350 - think Matrix HPA-3B.   I was about to join the drop myself but decided against it due to a rather long wait time.  Additionally, my  Questyle Q192 that I purchased used for $350 does come with built in DAC and rather nice on board power supply.  With that said, I will likely pick one up in a FS/FT forum in March 2018.


----------



## Josh Englert (Aug 31, 2017)

Had to leave the drop unfortunately, something that couldn't be helped came up... but will join the next drop. I remain confident it will be a solid purchase, not worried about the wait as I have a great solid state I'm currently using... Love the fact that Massdrop Made products eventually make their way back into drops, if you can't make the first drop, there's always the second drop.


----------



## Mkoll

I bet if the projected shipping date was in October, they would have all sold easily. Or even November or December. I think Massdrop and the vendors are shooting themselves in the foot asking people to purchase things half a year before they ship.


----------



## Mediahound

Mkoll said:


> I bet if the projected shipping date was in October, they would have all sold easily. Or even November or December. I think Massdrop and the vendors are shooting themselves in the foot asking people to purchase things half a year before they ship.



Yep, the only time I would buy it if it was actually in-stock, or from someone else once it's released.


----------



## purk

Mediahound said:


> Yep, the only time I would buy it if it was actually in-stock, or from someone else once it's released.



I was part of the Liquid Carbon I group buy and that project was delayed nearly 6 weeks so waiting 6 months can be a long long time.


----------



## Jodet

I would have waited three months.   Maybe four.   Six?   Not a chance.   It shouldn't take half a year to build these.


----------



## purk (Aug 31, 2017)

The long wait time also signal where they are on the mfg process.  I wish the internal shots are available as well.


----------



## Zachik

Jodet said:


> ...It shouldn't take half a year to build these.



Biggest bottleneck is probably lead times to some components. It does not take 6 months to build anything, but if you have to wait for 20+ weeks for a certain component to be delivered from manufacturer..... do the math.....
I am on the drop (joined on day 1) so believe me when I say I wish the wait would have been MUCH shorter!



purk said:


> The long wait time also signal where they are on the mfg process.  I wish the internal shots are available as well.



The long wait means they have not pre-ordered any components paying for them out of their pocket and assuming the risk of not enough people join the drop.
I do not think anyone at MD ever implied they've started production.


----------



## Shetzu

Zachik said:


> Biggest bottleneck is probably lead times to some components. It does not take 6 months to build anything, but if you have to wait for 20+ weeks for a certain component to be delivered from manufacturer..... do the math.....
> I am on the drop (joined on day 1) so believe me when I say I wish the wait would have been MUCH shorter!
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. MD is only a company that procures products directly from manufacturers and sometimes sell items with their name directly. So money is first collected and then paid to manufacturers. This does take time.


----------



## 35FLE

Good things come to those who wait.....


----------



## Shetzu

35FLE said:


> Good things come to those who wait.....


Of Course agree there. This thread will get more lively next year in march 2018


----------



## doctorjazz

Still no comparisons out there of this and Liquid Carbon, really curious...


----------



## project86

purk said:


> The long wait time also signal where they are on the mfg process.  I wish the internal shots are available as well.



I will try to get internal pics. I was hoping to get that before my InnerFidelity review, but couldn't make it happen in time. Haven't forgotten, though I realize it's of less value at this point.


----------



## Roscoeiii (Sep 1, 2017)

There are both comparisons and pics on other threads on  the CTH.


----------



## Zachik

I am surprised no mention, yet, of the combo CTH+SDAC...
I was very annoyed, at first, but it seems (according to @CEE TEE ) that people (like me) that joined the CTH drop can upgrade to the combo.
Now - the only question is: is it worth it?
Judging by early impressions of the standalone SDAC - it is a decent DAC, but the question is: how well is the noise separation / EMI interference between the 2 PCBs?
If done right - I see no reason to go with DAC-less version. $70 difference seems like a no-brainer.

Can ANYONE confirm the combo does not introduce any hiss / hum / interference?!


----------



## Levanter

Zachik said:


> I am surprised no mention, yet, of the combo CTH+SDAC...
> I was very annoyed, at first, but it seems (according to @CEE TEE ) that people (like me) that joined the CTH drop can upgrade to the combo.
> Now - the only question is: is it worth it?
> Judging by early impressions of the standalone SDAC - it is a decent DAC, but the question is: how well is the noise separation / EMI interference between the 2 PCBs?
> ...



Another question would be, after pulling this stunt... how do we know they won't do the same in the future with an upgraded DAC which supports 384khz/DSD? I rather they designed the chassis to be modular so we can user swap/slot in upgraded chip boards etc. That way they just have to sell the separate PCB boards which saves costs and time as well.


----------



## Zachik

Levanter said:


> Another question would be, after pulling this stunt... how do we know they won't do the same in the future with an upgraded DAC which supports 384khz/DSD? I rather they designed the chassis to be modular so we can user swap/slot in upgraded chip boards etc. That way they just have to sell the separate PCB boards which saves costs and time as well.


I hear you, and that happens all the time... with almost every company. 
There is always going to be a newer / better / faster - smartphone / headphones / laptop etc.
If you wait for the better one - you'll never buy anything 
It is only a serious bummer when they do it before you even get your purchase... At least MD is allowing us to upgrade.
The question is: is the added SDAC compromise the CTH in ANY way?!  Did ANYONE audition it?? (@CEE TEE - can you tell us if any samples were auditioned by Head-Fi-ers?)


----------



## project86

I personally haven't tried the combo unit, but I can't imagine it being too terribly difficult to implement in such a ways as to avoid interference. The CTH case is fairly roomy and the SDAC board is compact enough to easily fit without issue. 

As for the change, well, I predicted it might upset some people and confuse others, but for the most part if people are allowed to switch it should be fine.


----------



## Jodet (Sep 9, 2017)

I was all set to order this new version when I saw the dac was usb only.   Really?   REALLY?   I'm happy for all the 'computer as a source' people but I'm not one of them.


----------



## Zachik

Jodet said:


> I was all set to order this new version when I saw the dac was usb only.   Really?   REALLY?   I'm happy for all the 'computer as a source' people but I'm not one of them.


I am curious - what do you use as a source?


----------



## Zachik

The combo CTH+SDAC drop opens tomorrow morning, and I am still looking for opinions on:
Is there ANY downside (other than extra $$) to NOT switch from the CTH standalone to the combo?
I will most likely buy a good (and pricey) DAC at some point, but does it hurt anything to also have the SDAC built-in?
My only fear was that the DAC would degrade the amp (noise, etc). Am I missing any other potential negatives?

Thanks.


----------



## zerogorgor (Sep 10, 2017)

I was really interested in getting the CTH + SDAC but the +12dB gain looks too much, so probably will have to pass, especially after reading @Vansen 's comments.

I don't think I have tried the combo mentioned there, but I listen at a very low volume as well. For example, when driving the HD600s, my Liquid Carbon never goes beyond the 9 o'clock position using the +0dB gain, even with DACs that come with a ~2.2 Vrms output.

I thought I finally found a DAC/HPA for my desk that falls within my budget but well.


----------



## doctorjazz

Again, I wonder how this compares with the LC, period.


----------



## Zachik

doctorjazz said:


> Again, I wonder how this compares with the LC, period.


+1
Please share if you find anything out!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

massdrop is releasing liquid carbon x on thursday. I bet more people gonna cancel the CTH drop and go for the carbon.


----------



## 35FLE

Another Massdrop Cavalli amp - Liquid Carbon X
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...leCampaignId=165044&iterableTemplateId=238488

The timing they are releasing these different amp's is really annoying me since I committed to the CTH already!!!

They should release all 3 choices at once to allow people think and purchase the right one for their setup.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

35FLE said:


> Another Massdrop Cavalli amp - Liquid Carbon X
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...leCampaignId=165044&iterableTemplateId=238488
> 
> The timing they are releasing these different amp's is really annoying me since I committed to the CTH already!!!
> ...



agree. Can we cancel our purchase and go for the carbon instead? Honestly, at $299.99, it's an insane deal if it's the same with the original carbon.


----------



## PopZeus (Sep 11, 2017)

This is nuts! Clearly, Massdrop is in the Cavalli business. Problem is, I can't decide which one I want. I love tubes but hate the hassle. So this LC is most intriguing. I need help figuring all these options out.


----------



## sahmen

Yes, I too am getting pissed off by the minute with the way all these new offers are being announced... I would like a "liquid Crimson X" selling for half the price of the Origina (exactly like the Liquid Carbon X is doing now)... I already have the original liquid carbon, and also got the CTH, so I do not know how best to play the game of choices...  I wish Massdrop will announce at once all Cavalli units they intend to release in the future instead of using this "cloak and dagger" drip drip drip one at a time approach...

That will help customers plan the right choices ahead of time instead of premature buys that they have to cancel later on...  I am ready to trade up my CTH drop purchase for something better, but I need to see what is coming down the pipeline first before placing the order.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

sahmen said:


> Yes, I too am getting pissed off by the minute with the way all these new offers are being announced... I would like a "liquid Crimson X" selling for half the price of the Origina (exactly like the Liquid Carbon X is doing now)... I already have the original liquid carbon, and also got the CTH, so I do not know how best to play the game of choices...  I wish Massdrop will announce at once all Cavalli units they intend to release in the future instead of using this "cloak and dagger" drip drip drip one at a time approach...
> 
> That will help customers plan the right choices ahead of time instead of premature buys that they have to cancel later on...  I am ready to trade up my CTH drop purchase for something better, but I need to see what is coming down the pipeline first before placing the order.



The problem is the drop usually ends before the new one comes up. We might miss the deal if we don't join the drop but on the other hand, we might also spend unnecessary amount of money because a better deal comes up. Well played massdrop!


----------



## PopZeus (Sep 11, 2017)

CEE TEE is claiming this is essentially a Liquid Carbon, which is crazy at that price point. Is Alex Cavalli just not selling enough audiophile equipment? Is Massdrop ever going to reveal What their plans are so that we can plan ahead?

Tbh, the fact that I'm nowhere ready to invest in a balanced DAC has me happy with my CTH purchase so far. Now if Massdrop decides to announce a balanced DAC designed by grace.... (you know it's coming...)


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, if this really is the LC v2, it's a bit of a spit in the face of those of us who purchased the v1 (or v2)  as a pre-production offer to get a Cavalli at a truly bargain price ("gift to the community" is how I remember it described...). If the price is really much less than what the pre-order folks paid, we've also lost any resail value. (if it is the same, you don't need a balanced dac, by the way ). Nice for you folks, stinks for those who pre-invested. (and I thought LH Labs was the only company screwing pre-investors, though they still have the top spot...).


----------



## Zachik

doctorjazz said:


> OK, if this really is the LC v2, it's a bit of a spit in the face of those of us who purchased the v1 (or v2)  as a pre-production offer to get a Cavalli at a truly bargain price ("gift to the community" is how I remember it described...). If the price is really much less than what the pre-order folks paid, we've also lost any resail value. (if it is the same, you don't need a balanced dac, by the way ). Nice for you folks, stinks for those who pre-invested. (and I thought LH Labs was the only company screwing pre-investors, though they still have the top spot...).


I feel your pain.
I personally like the original design and internal power supply better! Another power brick?!?! sigh. Maybe now we need a MD linear power supply with several outputs (for the CTH, LCX, and future DAC?)


----------



## MattRG

I'll stick with the CTH, thanks.  My days of solid state headphone amps are over.  There's just something about a well designed hybrid (like the CTH or Schiit Vali 2) and they way that they sound that is superior to my ears to just about any solid state headphone amp.


----------



## twiceboss

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> agree. Can we cancel our purchase and go for the carbon instead? Honestly, at $299.99, it's an insane deal if it's the same with the original carbon.


i did cancel for once back then. Even after the drop ends. Massdrop approved and refunded !


----------



## GuddoggEli

MattRG said:


> I'll stick with the CTH, thanks.  My days of solid state headphone amps are over.  There's just something about a well designed hybrid (like the CTH or Schiit Vali 2) and they way that they sound that is superior to my ears to just about any solid state headphone amp.


  I too had that reaction, but then reread the description of the LCX circuitry.  It appears the LCX may be superior in this regard (and frankly, $299 seems to be a crazy good price for this circuitry), so maybe I'll look for something like a Yaquin CD3 Tube Buffer.


----------



## Josh Englert

Personally I'm picking up both....was always curious of the Liquid Carbon but could never justify $800 on the second run, and didn't take the jump into hi-fi until this year, by that time LC was discontinued. Still going with CTH due to the very good tube implementation, could be a match made in heaven with my HD 6XXs on the way, and could help curb the treble peak at 8-10K on my TH-X00s.


----------



## Zachik

Josh Englert said:


> Personally I'm picking up both....was always curious of the Liquid Carbon but could never justify $800 on the second run, and didn't take the jump into hi-fi until this year, by that time LC was discontinued. Still going with CTH due to the very good tube implementation, could be a match made in heaven with my HD 6XXs on the way, and could help curb the treble peak at 8-10K on my TH-X00s.



Already on the CTH drop, and considering maybe upgrade to the CTH+SDAC combo.
In addition, might join LCX. Undecided, yet... If sound is as good as LCv2 - then definitely join in addition to CTH!


----------



## GuddoggEli (Sep 12, 2017)

Zachik said:


> Already on the CTH drop, and considering maybe upgrade to the CTH+SDAC combo.
> In addition, might join LCX. Undecided, yet... If sound is as good as LCv2 - then definitely join in addition to CTH!


I get that the CTH is good.  I get that the LCX is good.  What does the stack of both get you?  Also, adding a dac, how does the CTH+SDAC work?  Isn't an USB-only dac?


----------



## Zachik

GuddoggEli said:


> I get that the CTH is good.  I get that the LCX is good.  What does the stack of both get you?  Also, adding a dac, how does the CTH+SDAC work?  Isn't an USB-only dac?


Not going to stack them. For $550 - I can just own both, and move back and forth between them depending on headphone / mood / etc.
Side note: a big advantage of the LCX is the fully balanced architecture.


----------



## Josh Englert

Different sounds...is why...or getting more out the headphones you already own. As far as stacking goes, depends on desk space.


----------



## Shetzu

I would personally stick to the standalone CTH I ordered initially and use any DAC of my preference. To begin with I plan to use it with my MOJO..


----------



## Josh Englert (Sep 13, 2017)

Shetzu said:


> I would personally stick to the standalone CTH I ordered initially and use any DAC of my preference. To begin with I plan to use it with my MOJO..


Recently joined the Chord Mojo drop on Massdrop...now just have to wait for the standalone CTH to re-drop....I'll be using Mojo with CTH, & Liquid Carbon X until I'm able to purchase a Gumby.


----------



## Shetzu

Josh Englert said:


> Recently joined the Chord Mojo drop on Massdrop...now just have to wait for the standalone CTH to re-drop....I'll be using Mojo with CTH, & Liquid Carbon X until I'm able to purchase a Gumby.


All the best.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

I created a separated thread for the Liquid Carbon X, the one I'm more interested in 

Here's the link:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-liquid-carbon-x-discussion.860257/


----------



## 35FLE

Has anyone decided to cancel their original CTH purchase and get the LCX?


----------



## gearofwar

How does this amp compare to Audio GD NFB-1AMP . Can anyone here help? Thanks


----------



## Zachik

35FLE said:


> Has anyone decided to cancel their original CTH purchase and get the LCX?



I for one plan to buy LCv2 or LCX in addition!


----------



## GuddoggEli

35FLE said:


> Has anyone decided to cancel their original CTH purchase and get the LCX?


 Hi!  Yes, I canceled my serial numbered CTH order and purchased the LCX  (serial numbered).


----------



## Zachik

GuddoggEli said:


> Hi!  Yes, I canceled my serial numbered CTH order and purchased the LCX  (serial numbered).


I am curious - why do you care about whether or not your serial number is below 550 ?!


----------



## GuddoggEli

Zachik said:


> I am curious - why do you care about whether or not your serial number is below 550 ?!


 It seems rather niggling to me, but some seem to think the serialized units might be better received in the resale market.  In the computer market, I once had an Apple Macintosh with a serial number below 100, and it was bid up nicely on that point alone.  Not sure that will work in this market, but why not for the same price?


----------



## Jearly410

I've no need for another dac and am happy to keep my order


----------



## Allanmarcus

GuddoggEli said:


> It seems rather niggling to me, but some seem to think the serialized units might be better received in the resale market.  In the computer market, I once had an Apple Macintosh with a serial number below 100, and it was bid up nicely on that point alone.  Not sure that will work in this market, but why not for the same price?


I believe they all will have serial numbers. MD is just saying the first 500 orders will get a serial number below 550. everyone will get a serial number.


----------



## Bazirker

Vansen said:


> When I say I listen to music at lower volumes than 90% of most listeners, I mean it. When I listen to music on my JH13 or Noble X from an iPhone, my sustained listening is done on the second or third bar. Also, I had to return a DragonFly Red and Black because the volume was too loud for me at the lowest setting on both of these with IEMs. (I've complained about this with the DFR in this forum several times.) I find this experience of mine to be true with full sized headphones, too. Perhaps I'm in the >99% category rather than the 90% category here. Regardless, the CTH was able to deliver balanced volume levels at low listening volumes while offering me the control I desire.



@Vansen so to be clear, were you stating that this amp would be too loud to use with CIEM's?  I'm thinking about buying one to run with my HD6XX coming in December, but I would also like to use it with my CIEM's (UM Merlin's).


----------



## Vansen

Bazirker said:


> @Vansen so to be clear, were you stating that this amp would be too loud to use with CIEM's?  I'm thinking about buying one to run with my HD6XX coming in December, but I would also like to use it with my CIEM's (UM Merlin's).



IEMs are the main thing I listen to, but I haven't listened to them on the CTH. When I'm around a desktop amp, I prefer to listen to full sized headphones. My intuition is going to say that the amp isn't the best option for a CIEM, but I can give it a listen this weekend and report back.

It is great with the HD6XX though.


----------



## Bazirker

Vansen said:


> IEMs are the main thing I listen to, but I haven't listened to them on the CTH. When I'm around a desktop amp, I prefer to listen to full sized headphones. My intuition is going to say that the amp isn't the best option for a CIEM, but I can give it a listen this weekend and report back.
> 
> It is great with the HD6XX though.



Great, that would be awesome.  It's definitely more of a "can I?" question rather than a "should I"  :-D


----------



## Shetzu

Allanmarcus said:


> I believe they all will have serial numbers. MD is just saying the first 500 orders will get a serial number below 550. everyone will get a serial number.


Just wandering what is the importance of Serial number Or is it a marketing gimmick.


----------



## Allanmarcus (Sep 21, 2017)

Shetzu said:


> Just wandering what is the importance of Serial number Or is it a marketing gimmick.


It's a status thing to have a low serial number. "I got there first". Nothing more.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Trying to decide if I should or shouldn't get in on this. I mean I did just start a new job and this could be my reward to myself for that...


----------



## geoffalter11

93EXCivic said:


> Trying to decide if I should or shouldn't get in on this. I mean I did just start a new job and this could be my reward to myself for that...



I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...


----------



## Shetzu

Allanmarcus said:


> It's a status thing to have a low serial number. "I got their first". Nothing more.


Ha Ha cool.


----------



## GuddoggEli

I can think of maybe a half-dozen reasons why someone might want a serial-numbered item, none overly important, but at least those people don't try to make themselves feel superior by making fun of others on a serious forum.


----------



## Allanmarcus

GuddoggEli said:


> I can think of maybe a half-dozen reasons why someone might want a serial-numbered item, none overly important, but at least those people don't try to make themselves feel superior by making fun of others on a serious forum.


ALL the CTHs will be serial numbered. We are talking about have a serial number of 300 vs 1000. I'm not making fun of anyone. Please correct me if I'm wrong.  What is the advantage of having serial number 300 vs 1000?


----------



## cardeli22

Allanmarcus said:


> ALL the CTHs will be serial numbered. We are talking about have a serial number of 300 vs 1000. I'm not making fun of anyone. Please correct me if I'm wrong.  What is the advantage of having serial number 300 vs 1000?


I can only think some people may believe it has a higher resell value being an earlier model. Not sure.


----------



## jimpx10

I realize few people have heard the LCX and/or the CTH but the LCX is probably close enough to the Liquid Carbon that people may be able to make some guesses.

I currently have a Grace m9xx and the following headphones:
   1. Kx77
   2. THx00 Purpleheart
   3. HD6xx
   4. HE400i

I am in the Cavalli CTH drop but am thinking about the getting LCX instead.  I have the following questions:

   1. if you are familiar with the Grace m9xx amp section, how would it compare with the LCX since both are solid state amps? from an amp standpoint would this be an upgrade or a sidegrade?
   2. for each of the above headphones, which amp would be the best match, the CTH or the LCX?  This may be a solid state vs hybrid question, but any help here would be great.

I will also try putting this in the LCX forum in case there are people not following both forums and might be able to provide some assistance.

Thanks for any help you can provide...


----------



## sheldaze

jimpx10 said:


> I realize few people have heard the LCX and/or the CTH but the LCX is probably close enough to the Liquid Carbon that people may be able to make some guesses.
> 
> I currently have a Grace m9xx and the following headphones:
> 1. Kx77
> ...



What sonic change are you looking to get via either the CTH or the LCX?

I owned every headphone you have listed, and the Carbon. I still own the m9xx. Personally, the only headphone I did not care for on the m9xx was the HE400i, and I thought it did well on the Carbon (LCX), to tame the highs I disliked - needs balanced cables, but those aren't hard to purchase or build for HiFiMan headphones. Very few have heard the CTH, but impressions I'm reading are not that of a warm tube amplifier. So I'm asking, what change are you trying to gain through either purchase of the CTH or LCX?


----------



## Fox2twenty

So, if I usually just use cell phone and iems.... Is the cth + sdac a good all in one for getting into a desktop setup?


----------



## Levanter (Sep 26, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> So, if I usually just use cell phone and iems.... Is the cth + sdac a good all in one for getting into a desktop setup?



I find using desktop amps solely for IEM ridiculous and a waste of money, a decent DAP is good enough. Some smartphones have decent SQ as well. 
But hey, this is headfi - a place where people chase after unicorns and fairies, so whatever rocks your boat


----------



## Roscoeiii

Now it may be overkill, but I certainly heard an improvement with my Campfire Vegas out of my Schiit Jotenheim (source into the amp was my LG V10). Overkill? Probably. Also sounds great out of an iDSD Black Label. But for power-hungry IEMs a desktop amp provide a nice improvement.


----------



## CJG888

I would be concerned about accidentally knocking the volume control!


----------



## jimpx10

sheldaze said:


> What sonic change are you looking to get via either the CTH or the LCX?
> 
> I owned every headphone you have listed, and the Carbon. I still own the m9xx. Personally, the only headphone I did not care for on the m9xx was the HE400i, and I thought it did well on the Carbon (LCX), to tame the highs I disliked - needs balanced cables, but those aren't hard to purchase or build for HiFiMan headphones. Very few have heard the CTH, but impressions I'm reading are not that of a warm tube amplifier. So I'm asking, what change are you trying to gain through either purchase of the CTH or LCX?



Thank you for your quick response.

I unfortunately don't have the vocabulary nor the experience with different sounds to answer your question. It is funny, because if I said I wanted a new car it would be easy for me to say I wanted more power, better handling, gas mileage, etc. But in this case I really can't say. If I could do an A - B test of different headphone/amp combos I could say I liked one better than the other, but I don't have that option.

I guess I have the desire to try another amp, and want to get something different and/or better than what I have now. I realize "better" is very subjective, which is why I was asking if others had a feeling which amp would be better/different than the Grace.  At least it would give me an idea, even if my personal tastes were different.

From your note it implies that you had the Carbon, got rid of it, but still have a Grace. Is there a reason for that? In terms of an amp being "different" is it safe to say that the CTH would be more different from the Grace than would the LCX.


----------



## sheldaze

jimpx10 said:


> From your note it implies that you had the Carbon, got rid of it, but still have a Grace. Is there a reason for that? In terms of an amp being "different" is it safe to say that the CTH would be more different from the Grace than would the LCX.



I love the Cavalli "house" sound. But when I was able to hear the delta between their entry level Carbon - against their higher end products (Crimson, Glass, Gold) the value for me was to save up and go to their higher end products. Gold actually had too much power for my use into the easy Utopia. So I'm trying the Glass (back from some touch-up this week). My preference above all things is clarity and staging, with a slight hint of warmth.

So, Grace has quite a lot of clarity, and stages pretty well for most headphones. Carbon to my ears just did not have the clarity of the higher end models from Cavalli. What I've read is the CTH has plenty of clarity - probably less inherent tube warmth than say a Schiit Vali 2. I still would guess it gives you a different flavor than just the Grace. And I think it has sufficient power, to give you access to a few more headphones. Changes to the LCX versus the Carbon, such as power, can also make it better - I had experienced a much improved sound from the Carbon by improving the way I fed power into the Carbon. But it costs more and seems to have fewer reviews.

TLDR - I would stick with the CTH for what you're after. It costs less, and will give you a different flavor - it has good reviews from people who have heard it. LCX may be different - but different in what way is harder to gauge, at the moment. I'm interested in it too, because I owned the Carbon. But for your entry point, CTH still makes more sense.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Levanter said:


> I find using desktop amps solely for IEM ridiculous and a waste of money, a decent DAP is good enough. Some smartphones have decent SQ as well.
> But hey, this is headfi - a place where people chase after unicorns and fairies, so whatever rocks your boat



Boom! Mic drop.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Levanter said:


> I find using desktop amps solely for IEM ridiculous and a waste of money, a decent DAP is good enough. Some smartphones have decent SQ as well.
> But hey, this is headfi - a place where people chase after unicorns and fairies, so whatever rocks your boat



C'mon, we can do without "Boom! Mic drop" statements here. 

I guess that my main reaction here is that there is too much generalization going on.

Synergy is everything when putting together a headphone or 2-channel speaker system. 

 IEMs, like larger headphones, differ in their efficiency and how the quality of their sound responds to power. Much as it is important to match sound signatures of source, amp and headphone/speaker. This is why reviews that detail pairings can be so useful to potential buyers. Returning to the difficult to drive DD Campfire Vegas, the Headphonics review has a section entitled "Desktop Joy" and says the following it the conclusion of the review "some desktop setups will really unlock the potential of the Vega". Pretty ringing endorsement of that pairing. On the other hand, Campfire's BA Andromeda are so sensitive that I have a hard time imagining a desktop pairing that would work well.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Boom. Mic drop.


----------



## Bazirker

I ended up jumping on one of these bad boys in hopes it'll pair well with my HD6XX that'll come in December.  I like the notion of some tube sound without getting overly tubey.  We'll see!


----------



## greenkiwi

I'm curious if any of the reviewers had the opportunity to hear both the x CTH and the Carbon X?  Any thoughts about the sonic differences?

I'd been planning on waiting for the next set of amps, but since that appears to be indefinite, seems like getting one of these two would be a fun way to get to listen to the Cavalli sound.

I'd be listening with either the LCD-2, LCD-XC, Ether C or the HD6xx.  If there were any of these that paired particularly well with either of the amps, it might help sway me one way or the other.


----------



## Shetzu

greenkiwi said:


> I'm curious if any of the reviewers had the opportunity to hear both the x CTH and the Carbon X?  Any thoughts about the sonic differences?
> 
> I'd been planning on waiting for the next set of amps, but since that appears to be indefinite, seems like getting one of these two would be a fun way to get to listen to the Cavalli sound.
> 
> I'd be listening with either the LCD-2, LCD-XC, Ether C or the HD6xx.  If there were any of these that paired particularly well with either of the amps, it might help sway me one way or the other.


All are waiting for the deliveries as Massdrop will only start shipping end Feb 2018. So reviews are awaited.


----------



## Zachik

greenkiwi said:


> I'm curious if any of the reviewers had the opportunity to hear both the x CTH and the Carbon X?  Any thoughts about the sonic differences?





Shetzu said:


> All are waiting for the deliveries as Massdrop will only start shipping end Feb 2018. So reviews are awaited.



The CTH has made couple surprise appearances in the last couple months, actually!
I have auditioned it in Aug. (2 months ago) at the SF meet. It was dropped (pun intended) by @CEE TEE at the ZMF table. It showed up again at RMAF... At Zach's table, again...
So, some people have auditioned it! 

Personally, I have only auditioned it with ZMF Atticus and Auteur. GREAT match with both, so if you like the ZMF sound signature - you're golden.
I have not seen in real life the LCX, not have I read of any impressions from any meet that mentioned it.


----------



## Bazirker

Zachik said:


> The CTH has made couple surprise appearances in the last couple months, actually!
> I have auditioned it in Aug. (2 months ago) at the SF meet. It was dropped (pun intended) by @CEE TEE at the ZMF table. It showed up again at RMAF... At Zach's table, again...
> So, some people have auditioned it!
> 
> ...



I bought one hoping for a nice synergy with the HD 6XX I am also awaiting...fingers crossed!


----------



## geoffalter11

greenkiwi said:


> I'm curious if any of the reviewers had the opportunity to hear both the x CTH and the Carbon X?  Any thoughts about the sonic differences?
> 
> I'd been planning on waiting for the next set of amps, but since that appears to be indefinite, seems like getting one of these two would be a fun way to get to listen to the Cavalli sound.
> 
> I'd be listening with either the LCD-2, LCD-XC, Ether C or the HD6xx.  If there were any of these that paired particularly well with either of the amps, it might help sway me one way or the other.



There is a great review of the CTH tube amp on Innerfidelity.com by John Grandenberg that was a great review. It was helpful in my decision to join the drop.


----------



## Thujan Krishnakumar

Has anyone tried the Fostex Hp-a4bl amp/dac combo?


----------



## canali

i already have a mad earplus purist HD and chord mojo.
I did order this amp at the behest of my audiophile friend...but might not keep it afterall.


----------



## Mosauwer

did anyone compare it with jotunheim?


----------



## cardeli22

That would be a nice to know. Someone, on another site, compared it to the Schiit Vali 2 and the project Ember and preferred the CTH to both


----------



## Shetzu

cardeli22 said:


> That would be a nice to know. Someone, on another site, compared it to the Schiit Vali 2 and the project Ember and preferred the CTH to both


 So the CTH has positive vibes. Looks good.


----------



## cardeli22

Shetzu said:


> So the CTH has positive vibes. Looks good.


Yeah, looking at the CTH or the new Eddie Currant Massdrop collaboration, ZDT jr.


----------



## chefboyarlee

canali said:


> i already have a mad earplus purist HD and chord mojo.
> I did order this amp at the behest of my audiophile friend...but might not keep it afterall.



I am totally interested in taking your spot, but is that something that massdrop allows?


----------



## canali

chefboyarlee said:


> I am totally interested in taking your spot, but is that something that massdrop allows?



i have no clue...already cancelled mine a few weeks now


----------



## chefboyarlee

If they allowed you to cancel maybe I can just contact customer service and join behind the scenes...


----------



## chefboyarlee

Update: called massdrop and they say no you can’t purchase anything behind the scenes. You need to request and wait until it comes up again.


----------



## Bazirker

chefboyarlee said:


> I am totally interested in taking your spot, but is that something that massdrop allows?



If I don't like mine, you'll see it in the "for sale" section here, but I'm gonna at least audition it first    My concern is that it won't play nice with my CIEM's, and I don't have space/budget for more than one desktop amp so it's gotta run all my stuff.  It's a bit of a tall order expecting my HD 6XX and 12 ohm CIEM's to play nice with the same amp, but...why not, eh?


----------



## schwallman

will purchase from anyone that want to let it go after receiving it


----------



## ces456

Anyone try this with Focal Elears?  From the impressions in this thread seems like this would be a good pairing.  Source will be a Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## Bazirker

ces456 said:


> Anyone try this with Focal Elears?  From the impressions in this thread seems like this would be a good pairing.  Source will be a Bifrost Multibit.



I think we're all still waiting to get ours  :-D  They're ETA shipping date is in a month.


----------



## Zachik

Bazirker said:


> I think we're all still waiting to get ours  :-D  They're ETA shipping date is in a month.


Actually... CT from Massdrop brought one to the SF meet a few months ago. He dropped it (no pun intended) at ZMF table for people to try it.
I cannot speak of matching / pairing with Elear, but I can say that it matches beautifully with ZMF Atticus and Eikon.


----------



## ces456

Zachik said:


> Actually... CT from Massdrop brought one to the SF meet a few months ago. He dropped it (no pun intended) at ZMF table for people to try it.
> I cannot speak of matching / pairing with Elear, but I can say that it matches beautifully with ZMF Atticus and Eikon.


Well, I'm in line for the CTH, so I guess I'll find out for myself.


----------



## Jearly410

Zachik said:


> Actually... CT from Massdrop brought one to the SF meet a few months ago. He dropped it (no pun intended) at ZMF table for people to try it.
> I cannot speak of matching / pairing with Elear, but I can say that it matches beautifully with ZMF Atticus and Eikon.


I sure hope so! I’m having to resist my urge to buy a La Figaro 339 for the Atticus. One more month...


----------



## jimpx10

Jearly410 said:


> I sure hope so! I’m having to resist my urge to buy a La Figaro 339 for the Atticus. One more month...



I totally agree with Zachik, I listened to the Eikon for awhile on the CTH at the meetup and it sounded very good. 

It sounded so good that I stayed in the CTH drop instead of switching to the Liquid Carbon drop.

I am still kicking myself for not spending time comparing the Atticus with the Eikon. The Eikon was hooked up and it sounded so good I just listened to it. Not sure if I will ever splurge on a headphone in their range, but after listening at the meetup I was sorely tempted. My listening experience is unfortunately limited, so comparing these two headphones would have given me a good baseline for the type I like.

I think you will be pleased with the CTH.


----------



## Bazirker

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yissssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Pumba101

Just got the email. Mine has been shipped! It'll take a few days to get to Singapore though. Can't wait to get my Carbon either. Exciting times!!


----------



## Shetzu

Pumba101 said:


> Just got the email. Mine has been shipped! It'll take a few days to get to Singapore though. Can't wait to get my Carbon either. Exciting times!!



Lucky you. Still waiting for our email


----------



## Bazirker

Pumba101 said:


> Just got the email. Mine has been shipped! It'll take a few days to get to Singapore though. Can't wait to get my Carbon either. Exciting times!!



I'm jealous, I would've loved to get both.  This will be my first tube amp (I know, I'm not expecting it to be super tubey) and it'd be really cool to A/B it with a Carbon.


----------



## 67flieger

Pumba101 said:


> Just got the email. Mine has been shipped! It'll take a few days to get to Singapore though. Can't wait to get my Carbon either. Exciting times!!



Same here.  This is my first big-ticket purchase from Massdrop and I am looking forward to receiving it.  I’m waiting for FedEx to generate an arrival for my CTH + SDAC.


----------



## Bazirker

67flieger said:


> Same here.  This is my first big-ticket purchase from Massdrop and I am looking forward to receiving it.  I’m waiting for FedEx to generate an arrival for my CTH + SDAC.



Me too, no tracking info generated yet.  This is my 2nd Massdrop purchase, the first being my HD 6XX.  For that, it took 4 days from my shipping notification (which I got late in the evening) till delivery, so that would slot me in for expecting it on Saturday.  Either way, they're beating their expected shipping data by a few days, so little room for complaint there.


----------



## Jearly410

Haven’t got my shipping email yet. Just a little more waiting...


----------



## 67flieger

Bazirker said:


> Me too, no tracking info generated yet.  This is my 2nd Massdrop purchase, the first being my HD 6XX.  For that, it took 4 days from my shipping notification (which I got late in the evening) till delivery, so that would slot me in for expecting it on Saturday.  Either way, they're beating their expected shipping data by a few days, so little room for complaint there.



I'd be quite pleased to get my CTH on Saturday,  That would give me a few days to try it out before I head back to work.  Should be a lot of fun as this is the first higher-qualityl amp and DAC that I've purchased.  I've been playing music off of a laptop or iPhone for the most part with my headphones.


----------



## Pumba101

Pumba101 said:


> Just got the email. Mine has been shipped! It'll take a few days to get to Singapore though. Can't wait to get my Carbon either. Exciting times!!



Damn! My Liquid Carbon X has just been shipped. Looking forward to comparing these against my M9XX.


----------



## Bazirker

67flieger said:


> I'd be quite pleased to get my CTH on Saturday,  That would give me a few days to try it out before I head back to work.  Should be a lot of fun as this is the first higher-qualityl amp and DAC that I've purchased.  I've been playing music off of a laptop or iPhone for the most part with my headphones.



Argh, tracking is in and it's for Monday.  Boo.


----------



## Shetzu

Still waiting for the shipping email


----------



## 67flieger

Bazirker said:


> Argh, tracking is in and it's for Monday.  Boo.



I guess I'm fortunate in this instance.  FedEx is saying "by end of day" on Saturday.  

I'm in the Midwest, so that probably helps given that the shipment originated in New Jersey, according to the FedEx website.


----------



## Hippocamp

Not shipped yet for me...


----------



## runeight

Hey everyone. I see that many of you are about get your CTHs. 

Since I happen to have Serial #00001 I thought I might make a few comments on break in.

First, the amp sounds pretty good out of the box, at least to me. But, as we all know tubes take about 50 hours to clear out the impurities still clinging to the various internal parts and SS portions do need some time.

I don't think it's necessary to do a marathon break in session for 10,000 hours before listening. 

My experience has been that after about 25 hours playing music the amp begins to take on its full character. And then after that it evolves into is inherent sound signature.

For me, I was able to listen fairly happily even with no hours, noticing the changes at about 25 hours and then better over time. I still have less than 100 hours on the amp. YMMV some.

I hope you all like it. It has a long history from a popular and very compact DIY project to a much more sophisticated amp.


----------



## 67flieger

Thanks, runeight.

I know that many reviewers and even the designer are saying that tube-swapping really makes little impact.  With that said, would there be any advantage to trying the gold pin version of the E-H 6922?  Some reviews suggest a lower noise level, for instance.


----------



## runeight

67flieger said:


> Thanks, runeight.
> 
> I know that many reviewers and even the designer are saying that tube-swapping really makes little impact.  With that said, would there be any advantage to trying the gold pin version of the E-H 6922?  Some reviews suggest a lower noise level, for instance.



There will definitely be a difference among 6922s. It just won't necessarily be super dramatic, depending on the tube you're swapping in.

Be sure that whatever goes in there is really a 6922 or equivalent. The amp front end will adjust to achieve the 100V plate voltage for the normal variations in the tubes. Tubes like 6N1P for example, which are often called 6922 equivalent, are not really equivalent and shouldn't be used.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> There will definitely be a difference among 6922s. It just won't necessarily be super dramatic, depending on the tube you're swapping in.
> 
> Be sure that whatever goes in there is really a 6922 or equivalent. The amp front end will adjust to achieve the 100V plate voltage for the normal variations in the tubes. Tubes like 6N1P for example, which are often called 6922 equivalent, are not really equivalent and shouldn't be used.



Would a 5670/2C51 adapter to 6922 work on this amp? I was hoping to try out the Western Electric 2c51 on the CTH.


----------



## runeight (Feb 22, 2018)

Looking at the plate curves I would guess that the amp cannot compensate for just how different the operating points are between the 6922 and 5670. Also the 5670 takes 350mA heater current instead of 330mA. The heater supply can absorb this difference.

You might be able to get this to work, but you might find that the front end cannot operate properly and possibly cause damage.

This is why we recommend only 6922 or equivalents.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> Looking at the plate curves I would guess that the amp cannot compensate for just how different the operating points are between the 6922 and 5670. Also the 5670 takes 350mA heater current instead of 330mA. The heater supply can absorb this difference.
> 
> You might be able to get this to work, but you might find that the front end cannot operate properly and possibly cause damage.
> 
> This is why we recommend only 6922 or equivalents.



Roger that and thanks for the reply.


----------



## 67flieger

runeight said:


> There will definitely be a difference among 6922s. It just won't necessarily be super dramatic, depending on the tube you're swapping in.
> 
> Be sure that whatever goes in there is really a 6922 or equivalent. The amp front end will adjust to achieve the 100V plate voltage for the normal variations in the tubes. Tubes like 6N1P for example, which are often called 6922 equivalent, are not really equivalent and shouldn't be used.



Thank you for the reply.  I was mostly interested in trying the gold pin EH 6922, so that should be a safe swap to try.


----------



## Bazirker

Hey out of curiosity, you guys who have the CTH on the way....is yours with or without the DAC?  I bought the version with the SDAC.


----------



## Bazirker

Also, it would appear that mine has already made it to my state, so fingers crossed that it makes it to me quicker than the currently predicted Monday delivery...I'll do an unboxing if it comes tomorrow!


----------



## 67flieger

Bazirker said:


> Hey out of curiosity, you guys who have the CTH on the way....is yours with or without the DAC?  I bought the version with the SDAC.



I almost ordered the original CTH but held off.  Then Massdrop offered the CTH + SDAC version and I felt that it was a very good option for me, as I'm new to this headphone game and didn't have a standalone amp or DAC.


----------



## Zachik

Hopefully, a new "CTH tube rolling" thread will show up soon...


----------



## 67flieger (Feb 22, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, a new "CTH tube rolling" thread will show up soon...



If you haven't already seen Tyll's review of the CTH at Inner Fidelity, it sounds like you should have humble expectations for tube rolling with the CTH.  According to Tyll (and a few other reviews I've seen), the CTH seems to be optimized for the E-H 6922.  Tyll stated that he tried several other tubes but didn't find anything that surpassed the stock E-H.  But he did write that perhaps there is some hidden gem of a tube somewhere that would perhaps be even better.

If I find the amp to be even a little noisy, I may try out the gold pin version of the E-H.  It's not a big spend by tube standards.  However, I'd only be hoping for a noise and not a tone improvement.

Still, perhaps someone will stumble across a true hidden gem somewhere.  Let's just hope that that little gem doesn't cost more than the whole of the CTH + SDAC.


----------



## runeight

67flieger said:


> If you haven't already seen Tyll's review of the CTH at Inner Fidelity, it sounds like you should have humble expectations for tube rolling with the CTH.  According to Tyll (and a few other reviews I've seen), the CTH seems to be optimized for the E-H 6922.  Tyll stated that he tried several other tubes but didn't find anything that surpassed the stock E-H.  But he did write that perhaps there is some hidden gem of a tube somewhere that would perhaps be even better.
> 
> If I find the amp to be even a little noisy, I may try out the gold pin version of the E-H.  It's not a big spend by tube standards.  However, I'd only be hoping for a noise and not a tone improvement.
> 
> Still, perhaps someone will stumble across a true hidden gem somewhere.  Let's just hope that that little gem doesn't cost more than the whole of the CTH + SDAC.



The amp is definitely designed for the 6922 operating conditions. But it's not  tuned in any way for a particular 6922 such as the stock EH. Without speaking for MD I believe they tried several 6922s that they thought would be suitable for stock and found that the EH seemed to be the best performer.

If you want a real tube rolling amp you might have to find a used Liquid Glass somewhere for sale.


----------



## Zachik

67flieger said:


> If you haven't already seen Tyll's review of the CTH at Inner Fidelity, it sounds like you should have humble expectations for tube rolling with the CTH.  According to Tyll (and a few other reviews I've seen), the CTH seems to be optimized for the E-H 6922.  Tyll stated that he tried several other tubes but didn't find anything that surpassed the stock E-H.  But he did write that perhaps there is some hidden gem of a tube somewhere that would perhaps be even better.
> 
> If I find the amp to be even a little noisy, I may try out the gold pin version of the E-H.  It's not a big spend by tube standards.  However, I'd only be hoping for a noise and not a tone improvement.
> 
> Still, perhaps someone will stumble across a true hidden gem somewhere.  Let's just hope that that little gem doesn't cost more than the whole of the CTH + SDAC.





runeight said:


> The amp is definitely designed for the 6922 operating conditions. But it's not  tuned in any way for a particular 6922 such as the stock EH. Without speaking for MD I believe they tried several 6922s that they thought would be suitable for stock and found that the EH seemed to be the best performer.
> 
> If you want a real tube rolling amp you might have to find a used Liquid Glass somewhere for sale.



That's OK - I guess I was just saved from getting myself into the tube rolling rabbit hole... 
If someone finds a reasonably priced hidden gem - I will give it a try!


----------



## CEE TEE

Just to let everyone know, @runeight who has chimed in above is the designer...Alex Cavalli.

(Run 8 is a locomotive reference: Notch 8 is the position of the throttle on a Diesel-Electric locomotive. Most locomotives have throttles numbered from Idle through to Notch 8, with this notch being full power.)


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> There will definitely be a difference among 6922s. It just won't necessarily be super dramatic, depending on the tube you're swapping in.
> 
> Be sure that whatever goes in there is really a 6922 or equivalent. The amp front end will adjust to achieve the 100V plate voltage for the normal variations in the tubes. Tubes like 6N1P for example, which are often called 6922 equivalent, are not really equivalent and shouldn't be used.



@runeight I want to say that will be my first Cavalli amp. The designs for your other amps are beautiful and soon will be rocking out to the CTH. Thanks for collaborating with @CEE TEE and Massdrop to bring this amp to market.

I hope you two *crosses fingers* also move forward with your other amps. I crave the Crimson/Liquid Glass.


----------



## 67flieger

That's really great that Alex is answering definitively!  What a great source of information.


----------



## Hansotek

Phantaminum said:


> @runeight I want to say that will be my first Cavalli amp. The designs for your other amps are beautiful and soon will be rocking out to the CTH. Thanks for collaborating with @CEE TEE and Massdrop to bring this amp to market.
> 
> I hope you two *crosses fingers* also move forward with your other amps. I crave the Crimson/Liquid Glass.



I mean, if the request line is open, I wouldn't mind seeing @runeight and @CEE TEE team up to bring that balanced version of the Crimson from last year's CanJam SoCal to life.... what was it the Liquid Platinum? 


 

My CTH also just shipped, BTW. This will be my third Cavalli amp, and I too am stoked.


----------



## Bazirker (Feb 24, 2018)

Mine is here!  It's much to early to comment on sound, but I will say it's got a boatload of power compared to my DFR.  I will say there's a tiny bit of hiss with my UM Merliins, but within tolerability; my HD 6XX are completely black.

I posted a few unboxing-ish pics over on Massdrop, for those that are interested in that sort of thing (I personally don't like the surprise to be spoiled!)  Don't judge my messy workspace, I just finished a thesis yesterday...

I can, however, give thoughts on the hardware, and initial impressions are fantastic.  The thing feels rock solid and well made, with tight tolerances and clean metal.  The power and USB plugs in the back have the right amount of tightness and feel good and secure.  The buttons are clicky and easy to push, but not too easy.  Most importantly, the volume pot feels like perfection, with just the right amount of static friction to get it moving followed by nice, smooth movement.  Volume changes are smooth, with no jumpiness or audible glitches like I've heard on a few of my other amps (all my Leckertons, for example.)


----------



## 67flieger

Congrats, Barzirker!  Mine is due for delivery via USPS later this afternoon.  By the way, if your workspace is too messy, I'll be embarrassed to post where I'm going to be initially using my CTH: it will be in our living room on a coffee table.

Thanks for the impressions on the hardware.


----------



## ces456




----------



## Bazirker

I have young kids and only got a brief moment to listen during naptime earlier, and just listened again after having let it play for the ~5 hours since.  I know Alex said this amp doesn't require a truckload of burn in, although I'll say mine has cleaned up some noticeably since I first plugged it in earlier.  I think the treble is a little less than what I'm aiming for with my HD 6XX, but my UM Merlin sounds spectacular.  On the Merlin, the bass in particular is much more natural and extended than on any other amp DAC/amp I've owned (including the Leckerton UHA760, Fiio E7/E9 combo, Oppo HA-2, DragonFly Red.)

I got these primarily for use with the HD 6XX, so we'll see how I feel about that pairing ultimately.


----------



## Bazirker

Bazirker said:


> I have young kids and only got a brief moment to listen during naptime earlier, and just listened again after having let it play for the ~5 hours since.  I know Alex said this amp doesn't require a truckload of burn in, although I'll say mine has cleaned up some noticeably since I first plugged it in earlier.  I think the treble is a little less than what I'm aiming for with my HD 6XX, but my UM Merlin sounds spectacular.  On the Merlin, the bass in particular is much more natural and extended than on any other amp DAC/amp I've owned (including the Leckerton UHA760, Fiio E7/E9 combo, Oppo HA-2, DragonFly Red.)
> 
> I got these primarily for use with the HD 6XX, so we'll see how I feel about that pairing ultimately.



Update:  Just got some more listening time on my HD 6XX.  Compared to the DFR, the sound is smoother, as one would expect with a tube amplifier, although I would also say it doesn't seem to be at the expense of precision.  Similarly, as one would expect, the sound is not analytical; you should look elsewhere if you want something for studio reference.  My preferences definitely lean towards musicality, and that is indeed the style of this amp.  

At the moment, I'm listening to some of the more recent stuff from Punch Brothers (e.g. Familiarity, In Wonder) where there are multiple simultaneous voices with strings of various depth in the background, and they are voiced quite nicely; each voice and instrument is easier to discern from the others, and the soundstage is wider as well.  I think the treble is a bit more laid back on the CTH than the DFR, although after comparison, I would perhaps be more inclined to call the DFR highs a touch shrill than I would be to describe the CTH treble as dull.  The bass is wonderful; hearing the bass line right at the opening of Julep is simply delicious.  

Impact seems pretty good too; I like Nine Inch Nails' opener "Somewhat Damaged" for this, and it hits hard.  The DFR has maybe a hair more impact, although it sounds sloppy and thin by comparison.  


More impressions to come later.  So far, I like it!


----------



## jimpx10

Bazirker said:


> Update:  Just got some more listening time on my HD 6XX.  Compared to the DFR, the sound is smoother, as one would expect with a tube amplifier, although I would also say it doesn't seem to be at the expense of precision.  Similarly, as one would expect, the sound is not analytical; you should look elsewhere if you want something for studio reference.  My preferences definitely lean towards musicality, and that is indeed the style of this amp.
> 
> At the moment, I'm listening to some of the more recent stuff from Punch Brothers (e.g. Familiarity, In Wonder) where there are multiple simultaneous voices with strings of various depth in the background, and they are voiced quite nicely; each voice and instrument is easier to discern from the others, and the soundstage is wider as well.  I think the treble is a bit more laid back on the CTH than the DFR, although after comparison, I would perhaps be more inclined to call the DFR highs a touch shrill than I would be to describe the CTH treble as dull.  The bass is wonderful; hearing the bass line right at the opening of Julep is simply delicious.
> 
> ...



I have been thinking about getting a DFR to use as both a mobile solution as well as using as a DAC for driving my CTH.  Have you tried using your DFR as a DAC with your CTH?
Would be interested in hearing how it works before getting a DFR.
Thanks...


----------



## Bazirker (Feb 25, 2018)

jimpx10 said:


> I have been thinking about getting a DFR to use as both a mobile solution as well as using as a DAC for driving my CTH.  Have you tried using your DFR as a DAC with your CTH?
> Would be interested in hearing how it works before getting a DFR.
> Thanks...



No I haven't, and that's an interesting proposal.  I suspect that the Grace SDAC will outperform the DFR, but I'll give it a go later today to see how it works.  I plan on putting my DFR up for sale shortly because of its volume problems with Android, so you can look for mine in the marketplace later today.  (I also gotta pay for this CTH+SDAC somehow, trying to keep the overall value of my gear within reason.)


----------



## jimpx10

Bazirker said:


> No I haven't, and that's an interesting proposal.  I suspect that the Grace SDAC will outperform the DFR, but I'll give it a go later today to see how it works.  I plan on putting my DFR up for sale shortly because of its volume problems with Android, so you can look for mine in the marketplace later today.  (I also gotta pay for this CTH+SDAC somehow, trying to keep the overall value of my gear within reason.)



Great, thanks in advance. I too have the Grace and will be interested in seeing how they compare.

Maybe it is just me, but in the chain: DAC -> Amp -> Headphones, I find the DAC to make the least difference, given a decent input source...


----------



## 67flieger

I ran music off an old iPod through the CTH for about 20-21 hours to burn-in the amp.  I also am a rookie to the hobby (though fairly discerning in listening as I've played guitar since I was a kid) and this is my first real headphone amp, but I am impressed with the little listening that I've done so far.  I've used my Grado RS-2e's which are obviously easy to drive but those phones take on extra liveliness with the CTH, in my opinion.

For those of you with more experience with different amps and headphones, how do you find the CTH + SDAC?


----------



## ScottFW

67flieger said:


> I almost ordered the original CTH but held off.  Then Massdrop offered the CTH + SDAC version and I felt that it was a very good option for me, as I'm new to this headphone game and didn't have a standalone amp or DAC.



So those of you who've already received yours ordered the +SDAC version [lemme see, when did that version drop? September?], while those of us who ordered the original amp-only version on the first day it dropped back in August have been sent to the back of the pack of massdrop's order fulfillment? I live a scant 200 miles down I-95 from the warehouse and I might have mine on Thursday. I'm happy for you guys though. 

None of my other tube gear takes a 6922, so I have nothing else to roll in immediately. Having read comments of those who have heard the amp, I'll probably hold off on the tube shopping spree for a little while. Maybe.


----------



## 67flieger

There are a number of inexpensive 6922 offerings.  But I did find one for sale that cost far more than either version of the CTH.  I think I can hold off on that one.


----------



## Phantaminum

67flieger said:


> There are a number of inexpensive 6922 offerings.  But I did find one for sale that cost far more than either version of the CTH.  I think I can hold off on that one.



I’ve a *small* collection of high end 6922 and equivalent tubes. Once the amp has had a good burn in I’ll start to roll tubes. I’ll report back once I have a good grasp on how much tubes affect the sound in this amp.


----------



## Hansotek

Not bad @runeight, not bad at all! I can't believe this thing was $250 bucks, it totally rocks. Punchy, super quiet background (almost nothing even with the Andromeda, which could find the freakin' noise floor in outer space) and just an all-around fun listen. Well done Alex and @CEE TEE.

Just a couple hours on it so far, I'll share more once I have had some more time with it, but glad I jumped on this drop.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> Not bad @runeight, not bad at all! I can't believe this thing was $250 bucks, it totally rocks. Punchy, super quiet background (almost nothing even with the Andromeda, which could find the freakin' noise floor in outer space) and just an all-around fun listen. Well done Alex and @CEE TEE.
> 
> Just a couple hours on it so far, I'll share more once I have had some more time with it, but glad I jumped on this drop.


Cannot wait for mine! (on its way... along with his brother LCX...)


----------



## greenkiwi

Mine just arrived... was listening to it for most of the afternoon.  Sounds good so far, however, I had it effectively power cycle itself twice.  Heard two loud pops, power light went red, then music came back.  Happened twice.  Don't know what would have caused that, created a ticket with MD.


----------



## Pumba101

Anyone know if you can buy an upgraded power supply from anywhere? Was reading in to the benefits of a linear power supply. Just can't find one in the right form factor and 28v.


----------



## YtseJamer

Hansotek said:


> Not bad @runeight, not bad at all! I can't believe this thing was $250 bucks, it totally rocks. Punchy, super quiet background (almost nothing even with the Andromeda, which could find the freakin' noise floor in outer space) and just an all-around fun listen. Well done Alex and @CEE TEE.
> 
> Just a couple hours on it so far, I'll share more once I have had some more time with it, but glad I jumped on this drop.



How's the synergy with the Atticus ?


----------



## Hansotek

YtseJamer said:


> How's the synergy with the Atticus ?



10/10 easy.... I feel like that's even selling it short. I popped it on about an hour ago and before the first song was over, my hands were trembling. The only non-OTL I've heard Atticus synergize this well with is the Liquid Crimson. CTH is not at that level across all areas, but Atticus can be a pretty picky headphone in my experience, and when you plug it into CTH business definitely picks up *substantially*. Frequency response balances out nicely, bass gains speed and clarity, the mids are simply outstanding and full of life, great level of punch. This is how the Atticus is supposed to sound. I am super impressed.


----------



## Bazirker (Feb 28, 2018)

jimpx10 said:


> I have been thinking about getting a DFR to use as both a mobile solution as well as using as a DAC for driving my CTH.  Have you tried using your DFR as a DAC with your CTH?
> Would be interested in hearing how it works before getting a DFR.
> Thanks...



Took me a few days before I got the chance to sit down and hook up my DFR with this amp for some A/B testing. 

First, I'd like to mention how much fun it was to A/B this setup, as I simply had to push the input button on the CTH+SDAC while simultaneously changing the playback device on my laptop with a single mouseclick, and the CTH would instantly switch between the SDAC and DFR as sources.  I'm used to having to do all this tomfoolery with plugging and unplugging things quickly, ripping headphones off my head rapidly to throw on a new pair, etc...clicking a button and smoothly, instantaneously hearing the difference is nice!  So, props to the CTH+SDAC for being able to smoothly handle the transition between sources without any pops, crackles, or other disruptive noise.

The difference between the DFR and SDAC is not profound, and I wouldn't necessarily recommend purchasing a DFR to try and bypass the SDAC.  There's not a significant quantitative difference in terms of the bass/mids/highs that I can appreciate; they maintain the same relative strength to one another.  I think the SDAC is a slightly cleaner sounding DAC with a wider soundstage and a tiny bit more detail, while the DRF has a more narrow soundstage and is perhaps a touch sharper.  I think the DFR may be ever so slightly more dynamic-sounding, with more impact; it's a very small difference that I could only hear on some tracks.

Overall, I think the SDAC is a superior source for the CTH than the DFR due to greater detail, wider soundstage, and an overall cleaner presentation.  I would say don't bother with the DFR, although I wouldn't say it's a terrible idea either.


----------



## Jearly410

Hansotek said:


> 10/10 easy.... I feel like that's even selling it short. I popped it on about an hour ago and before the first song was over, my hands were trembling. The only non-OTL I've heard Atticus synergize this well with is the Liquid Crimson. CTH is not at that level across all areas, but Atticus can be a pretty picky headphone in my experience, and when you plug it into CTH business definitely picks up *substantially*. Frequency response balances out nicely, bass gains speed and clarity, the mids are simply outstanding and full of life, great level of punch. This is how the Atticus is supposed to sound. I am super impressed.


Oh boy oh boy oh boy! I have my CTH coming tomorrow and you have made me really excited! I pulled the trigger on the la Figaro 339 drop as well, mostly due to the Atticus, but now I might just cancel.


----------



## Hansotek

Jearly410 said:


> Oh boy oh boy oh boy! I have my CTH coming tomorrow and you have made me really excited! I pulled the trigger on the la Figaro 339 drop as well, mostly due to the Atticus, but now I might just cancel.



I hope you like it as much as I do! I haven't heard the LaFigaro to offer any commentary on the differences between the two but CTH + Atticus is stellar.


----------



## Shetzu

Mine too was shipped yesterday by DHL. The wait gets shorter.


----------



## jimpx10

Bazirker said:


> Took me a few days before I got the chance to sit down and hook up my DFR with this amp for some A/B testing.
> 
> First, I'd like to mention how much fun it was to A/B this setup, as I simply had to push the input button on the CTH+SDAC while simultaneously changing the playback device on my laptop with a single mouseclick, and the CTH would instantly switch between the SDAC and DFR as sources.  I'm used to having to do all this tomfoolery with plugging and unplugging things quickly, ripping headphones off my head rapidly to throw on a new pair, etc...clicking a button and smoothly, instantaneously hearing the difference is nice!  So, props to the CTH+SDAC for being able to smoothly handle the transition between sources without any pops, crackles, or other disruptive noise.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback. I currently have a grace m9xx and a CTH without the SDAC. I am thinking of buying a DFR for both mobile use and as a DAC for my CTH. would lke to put the grace and the CTH in different rooms so wondering if i will lose a lot with DFR vs grace.  Sounds like the DFR isn't too bad, be interesting to see how muuc better the grace is than the DFR.


----------



## YtseJamer

Hansotek said:


> 10/10 easy.... I feel like that's even selling it short. I popped it on about an hour ago and before the first song was over, my hands were trembling. The only non-OTL I've heard Atticus synergize this well with is the Liquid Crimson. CTH is not at that level across all areas, but Atticus can be a pretty picky headphone in my experience, and when you plug it into CTH business definitely picks up *substantially*. Frequency response balances out nicely, bass gains speed and clarity, the mids are simply outstanding and full of life, great level of punch. This is how the Atticus is supposed to sound. I am super impressed.



Wow!  Thanks for your feedback Dave.

Do you think it's worth using a balanced cable with the Atticus ?


----------



## Phantaminum

YtseJamer said:


> Wow!  Thanks for your feedback Dave.
> 
> Do you think it's worth using a balanced cable with the Atticus ?



I think it was mentioned on Massdrop’s CTH page that the single out and balanced out are the same. They included both for convenience purposes and the amp itself is not balanced. There’s no difference in power or sound going between either jacks.


----------



## Hansotek

YtseJamer said:


> Wow!  Thanks for your feedback Dave.
> 
> Do you think it's worth using a balanced cable with the Atticus ?



As @Phantaminum said, the sound is identical between the jacks. The only reason one might use a balanced connection is for a more secure connection to the amplifier, as the 4-pin connector is a bit more robust.


----------



## YtseJamer

Phantaminum said:


> I think it was mentioned on Massdrop’s CTH page that the single out and balanced out are the same. They included both for convenience purposes and the amp itself is not balanced. There’s no difference in power or sound going between either jacks.





Hansotek said:


> As @Phantaminum said, the sound is identical between the jacks. The only reason one might use a balanced connection is for a more secure connection to the amplifier, as the 4-pin connector is a bit more robust.



Ok thanks.


----------



## greenkiwi

Plus I like being able to swap between this and my balanced amps without adapters or doing cables.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 3, 2018)

Just received it today and got it setup.

Edit: The amp pairing with the HD650 sounds fantastic.

Edit 2: Few observations I want add:
-Tube rolling doesn’t have a big effect on sound like other tube amps. I’ve rolled several tubes from cheap to high end tubes and they’re small changes. I did prefer a burned in Siemens E88CC with my E-Mu Teaks.
-They give the HD650 a very full and dynamic sound. It almost sounds like my AFO with the Mjolnir 2 just with slightly less body. That’s with the included stock tube.
-That volume knob is smooth. It makes the knob on my Mjolnir 2 feel cheap.
-This is a pretty amazing and well built amp for the price. You guys did great job.

Along side the MJ2/Gumby:


----------



## Hedonism

Reporting in. Great combo with AFO. I'll be comparing it to the Gilmore Lite mk 2 in the coming days. Both amps come highly recommended for the AFO from Mr. Speakers himself. My source will be Grace m9XX fed through USB.


----------



## bb rodriquez

So I have to say I tend to agree with Phantaminum's assessment of the CTH, this amp doesn't show much difference when tube rolling. I mean you might be able to get some slight changes in sound through trying different tubes options if you already have some. However, I wouldn't go out and purchase some 6922's to try to drastically change the sound, it ain't going to happen. I tried some 6DJ8 Amperex bugle boys and while there was a little more body, it wasn't enough to keep it in there. 

Now that said, this amp is very good sounding for the price! I think most people would be extremely happy with this for it's asking price on Massdrop. I would say it has a more neutral sound compared to my Lyr 1, which has a more aggressive sound. Treble sounds hotter and bass hits a little harder. The CTH spreads the love evenly throughout in comparison. I don't know if I will end up keeping this guy or not, I need to do some more extended listening, but it is a really great sounding amp. 

Once I get some more listening time in I will report back with some thoughts and give a few comparisons to the Lyr 1.


----------



## ElliotA (Mar 3, 2018)

Pumba101 said:


> Anyone know if you can buy an upgraded power supply from anywhere? Was reading in to the benefits of a linear power supply. Just can't find one in the right form factor and 28v.



I had a bit of a look into it a while back and ended up speaking to a guy who makes linear power supplies and he recommended his 50VA PSU which he'd set to 28VDC:

http://www.reelaudio.co.uk/Shop.shtml#DCPSUAnchor

Would be great to hear any other thoughts on what might work though, I've never bought one before.


----------



## Bazirker (Mar 3, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Just received it today and got it setup.
> 
> Edit: The amp pairing with the HD650 sounds fantastic.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree with you more about the volume pot; it is the nicest, smoothest volume pot I have used on any piece of equipment I have ever owned, headphones or otherwise.

Regarding the pairing with the HD 650, I definitely agree that it is an excellent match.  Both my HD 6XX and CTH/SDAC are still in the sub-100 hour range, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are regarding the highs with this pairing?  I wish there was just a hair more sparkle in the treble, and I'm wondering if something like a Jotunheim might get me that extra bit of high end without too much hit to the musicality this pairing otherwise has.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 3, 2018)

Bazirker said:


> I couldn't agree with you more about the volume pot; it is the nicest, smoothest volume pot I have used on any piece of equipment I have ever owned, headphones or otherwise.
> 
> Regarding the pairing with the HD 650, I definitely agree that it is an excellent match.  Both my HD 6XX and CTH/SDAC are still in the sub-100 hour range, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are regarding the highs with this pairing?  I wish there was just a hair more sparkle in the treble, and I'm wondering if something like a Jotunheim might get me that extra bit of high end without too much hit to the musicality this pairing otherwise has.



Let the burn in take its course and see how you feel about it then. If you still feel like the top end still needs a bit more sparkle you can try the Tesla 6922/E88CC (I'm more versed with the NOS version and not the JJ version), or the Tungsram E88CC. Those two aren't expensive and have a bit more treble than some of the other tubes.

I feel the stock tube has a pretty good amount of air but you have choices to slightly modify the sound instead of buying a whole new amp. If the 2C51/5670s are tested and is found that they work perfectly fine with the amp (with the accompanying adapter) then the WE 5 Star Triple mica tube would fit you perfectly.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Bazirker said:


> Regarding the pairing with the HD 650, I definitely agree that it is an excellent match...



I have to say I agree that the CTH and the HD6xx/HD650 make a fantastic pairing. I tried the LCD2c with it first and was a little underwhelmed with the results. It didn't sound bad, it just didn't have much to it that made it really enjoyable to listen to. Switching over to the HD6xx fixes that pretty quickly. The more I listen to the HD6xx the more impressed I am with it.



Phantaminum said:


> ...If the 2C51/5670s are tested and is found that they work perfectly fine with the amp (with the accompanying adapter) then the WE 5 Star Triple mica tube would fit you perfectly.



Is anyone looking into it? I did try it with my WE 396a's and it didn't seem to cause any short term harm, but after you linked me that response from cavalli I ended up taking them out.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> Let the burn in take its course and see how you feel about it then. If you still feel like the top end still needs a bit more sparkle you can try the Tesla 6922/E88CC (I'm more versed with the NOS version and not the JJ version), or the Tungsram E88CC. Those two aren't expensive and have a bit more treble than some of the other tubes.
> 
> I feel the stock tube has a pretty good amount of air but you have choices to slightly modify the sound instead of buying a whole new amp. If the 2C51/5670s are tested and is found that they work perfectly fine with the amp (with the accompanying adapter) then the WE 5 Star Triple mica tube would fit you perfectly.



You can also try the Genalex 6922. This was always the stock tube in the Liquid Crimson.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> You can also try the Genalex 6922. This was always the stock tube in the Liquid Crimson.



Good call on the Genalex Gold Lions! 

I think @Bazirker would be hard pressed not to like any of the recommended tubes, especially yours.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> Good call on the Genalex Gold Lions!
> 
> I think @Bazirker would be hard pressed not to like any of the recommended tubes, especially yours.


 
 I would recommend this as anyone's first try to change tubes. As you guys have read here and elsewhere, this is not intended as a tube rolling amp and there isn't much change going from 6922 to 6922. But you can work around the edges of the sound pattern if that's all you're trying to do.

The CTH really is designed to get the best out of the 6922 and it can adjust the operating point to optimal for normal variations in the 6922 and equivalents like 6dj8.

If I may, please be cautious using other than 6922. They may work, they may do damage.


----------



## buke9

@runeight another really good Cavalli amp. Hope you are doing well and have to say just a bit sad the Liquid Ambience want be coming out and the Liquid Tungsten is still one of my favorite amps.


----------



## DocBass

buke9 said:


> @runeight another really good Cavalli amp. Hope you are doing well and have to say just a bit sad the Liquid Ambience want be coming out and the Liquid Tungsten is still one of my favorite amps.



Agreed. The closing of Cavalii is a big loss to the audiophile community.


----------



## Zachik

DocBass said:


> Agreed. The closing of Cavalii is a big loss to the audiophile community.


Hopefully, with the help of Massdrop, more Cavalli designs would make a come-back


----------



## Shetzu (Mar 4, 2018)

Anyone can provide the impressions of the CTH with LCD2C & HD800. Tks.
Can anyone provide few snapshots of the unboxing of the CTH.


----------



## Bazirker

Phantaminum said:


> Let the burn in take its course and see how you feel about it then. If you still feel like the top end still needs a bit more sparkle you can try the Tesla 6922/E88CC (I'm more versed with the NOS version and not the JJ version), or the Tungsram E88CC. Those two aren't expensive and have a bit more treble than some of the other tubes.
> 
> I feel the stock tube has a pretty good amount of air but you have choices to slightly modify the sound instead of buying a whole new amp. If the 2C51/5670s are tested and is found that they work perfectly fine with the amp (with the accompanying adapter) then the WE 5 Star Triple mica tube would fit you perfectly.



Burn in may be the fix, as I recall there being even less treble at hour 0; plus it is my experience that higher frequencies tend to be the last to open up and take on the permanent character of amps.  My audio budget is currently in the negative, so burn in is the only choice I have at the moment...aside from perhaps selling part of this rig, and that ain't gonna happen.



runeight said:


> I would recommend this as anyone's first try to change tubes. As you guys have read here and elsewhere, this is not intended as a tube rolling amp and there isn't much change going from 6922 to 6922. But you can work around the edges of the sound pattern if that's all you're trying to do.
> 
> The CTH really is designed to get the best out of the 6922 and it can adjust the operating point to optimal for normal variations in the 6922 and equivalents like 6dj8.
> 
> If I may, please be cautious using other than 6922. They may work, they may do damage.



Congratulations on a fantastic amp.  I've owned and auditioned quite a bit of audio gear, and this piece of kit sounds tremendous; I would estimate its value at at least twice the asking price.  Thanks for finding a way to make a piece of Cavalli gear accessible to to masses :iD


----------



## runeight

Bazirker said:


> Burn in may be the fix, as I recall there being even less treble at hour 0; plus it is my experience that higher frequencies tend to be the last to open up and take on the permanent character of amps.  My audio budget is currently in the negative, so burn in is the only choice I have at the moment...aside from perhaps selling part of this rig, and that ain't gonna happen. :iD



We really can't evaluate the sound signature until at least 50 hours because of the tube. It still sounds pretty good between 0-50, but nothing is really stable until the tube is cleaned up by the getters.


----------



## jamweiser

This is my first headphone amp for usage at home, and i'm really liking how this amp is opening up with usage.  Yesterday i used it for a few hours with both of my headphones (HE 400i & TH-X00).  Today it's only been the He 400i's and its been a very enjoyable listening period this morning


----------



## Bazirker

jamweiser said:


> This is my first headphone amp for usage at home, and i'm really liking how this amp is opening up with usage.  Yesterday i used it for a few hours with both of my headphones (HE 400i & TH-X00).  Today it's only been the He 400i's and its been a very enjoyable listening period this morning



Is that one of the Venture Electronics cables from Massdrop?  I got one for my HD 6XX.  I can't really speak to how it sounds as both the cable and my CTH+SDAC arrived a couple days apart, but I love how it looks and feels.


----------



## buke9

Quick pics.


----------



## Bazirker

buke9 said:


> Quick pics.



Nice unboxing!


----------



## jerg

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, with the help of Massdrop, more Cavalli designs would make a come-back



Only if Alex Cavalli is interested and willing despite his retirement, hehe. Then again, once an audiophile, always an audiophile.


----------



## jamweiser

Bazirker said:


> Is that one of the Venture Electronics cables from Massdrop?



Yes it is.  I like the feel and look of the cable.


----------



## vespenegas

buke9 said:


> Quick pics.



It sure is a handsome, understated devil, isn’t it?


----------



## buke9

vespenegas said:


> It sure is a handsome, understated devil, isn’t it?


 Yes it is . Just starting to listen to it with different headphones.It doesn’t do everything great but it does them well. Very good with the HD-6xx’s (650’s) and not bad with the 700’s but still like a bit of warmth for them. It runs the HE-500 and 400’s very well also and can even power a pair of Abyss decently. So far a pretty good amp IMO.


----------



## geoffalter11

My Cavalli CTH was delivered on Saturday.  Unfortunately, I was out of town and we got 12 inches of snow that day so I returned home to my box covered in snow.  This is frustrating as my tracking showed delivery was set for tomorrow.  The above pictures of the shipping are fantastic and saved my amp.  The internal box was untouched and the foam inserts kept it safe and sound.  Albeit, cold.  This amp is wonderful.  For a $250 amp, it sounds like heaven.  It sounds like 5-10 times its price.  I have a Wells Audio Milo as my main amp and a Metrum Musette as my DAC.  I can say without hesitation the CTH is not out of place in my system.  My first listening was with my Dharma D1000's and they sounded as good as ever.  In fact, I felt they sounded better through my CTH as my Milo puts out a tad too much power for them.  They are almost too efficient for an amp putting out 18 watts.  I was nervous it wouldn't drive my ZMF Blackwoods or Ori's sufficiently, but it did.  The sound has an ethereal quality I really like.  Like floating in the clouds.  As it burns in, I believe the treble will open up even more.  Out of the box the mid-range was full and clear.  I am super happy to have joined this drop and feel the time it took to arrive was well worth the wait.


----------



## Jearly410

The MCTH + Atticus combo is amazing. This amp is the real deal.


----------



## buldogge

Has anyone else tried rolling a Voshkod Rocket or Reflektor 6N23P, yet?

I realize that Alex has been adamant about lack of need for tube rolling...but...I have gotten a pretty decent change in impact with the Soviet tubes (granted they are already burned in).

I bought both the CTH and LCX, and frankly, the CTH is giving a bit up to the LCX in terms of dynamics and impact...not sure I'll keep both.

-Mark in St. Louis


----------



## Phantaminum

buldogge said:


> Has anyone else tried rolling a Voshkod Rocket or Reflektor 6N23P, yet?
> 
> I realize that Alex has been adamant about lack of need for tube rolling...but...I have gotten a pretty decent change in impact with the Soviet tubes (granted they are already burned in).
> 
> ...



I have a ‘74 6N23P that I can roll but it is not burned in. Other Head-Fiers have recommended  a burn in time of 100 hours before they settle. I can bring it in tomorrow and let you know how it sounds.

As a caveat i’d be would be comparing it to a burned in Siemens E88CCs and with the E-Mu Teaks.


----------



## buldogge (Mar 5, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I have a ‘74 6N23P that I can roll but it is not burned in. Other Head-Fiers have recommended  a burn in time of 100 hours before they settle. I can bring it in tomorrow and let you know how it sounds.
> 
> As a caveat i’d be would be comparing it to a burned in Siemens E88CCs and with the E-Mu Teaks.


 
That would be cool.  I've got a 70's rocket and an 83 Reflector here.

I also have a 50's Beckman/Amperex Gold Pin which I just rolled in...and...it might actually win on balance...still decent impact/dynamics...but with a little more sparkle on the upper end.

I've been trying both amps with a HD600 and HE4XX, here in my office.  I also have some Nighthawks...but neither amp seemed to really agree/mesh with them, on first listen (limited time).

I bought the LCX for the HE4XX/planars....Figured I would move "up" to other planars in the future.

At home I use a modded Crack (or modded LD MKIII) with HD700s and T90s.

These amps are just at my office temporarily while I do some construction at home...and right now they are being fed by a Schiit Modi Optical. 

At home I have a Music Hall 25.3 DAC (balanced), a M9XX (AK4490), and a SPS NOS DAC3, in the mix...so things will be a bit different, later.

-Mark


----------



## Bazirker

The treble has opened up a bit on my CTH with burn in of the SDAC and included tube.  It's still not sparkly per se, but the impact has improved considerably.  Feeling pretty satisfied.


----------



## Hansotek

Phantaminum said:


> I have a ‘74 6N23P that I can roll but it is not burned in. Other Head-Fiers have recommended  a burn in time of 100 hours before they settle. I can bring it in tomorrow and let you know how it sounds.
> 
> As a caveat i’d be would be comparing it to a burned in Siemens E88CCs and with the E-Mu Teaks.



Yeah, 6N23P’s definitely take some time to burn in. I used one on the Crimson though, and it was fantastic.


----------



## MattRG

First impressions are: what a wonderful amp for $250!  I listened for a couple of hours last night with my ZMF Eikon (source was Metrum Musette) and it was a wonderful and beautiful experience.  The CTH, right out of the box and with no tube burn in, is to my ears a significant upgrade over the Vali 2 that I have been using for the last year.  (And I really like the Vali 2!)

Compared to the Vali 2 I thought there was more fine detail and the music sounded more natural and engaging.  What started out as a quick demo session with a few of my favorite tracks ended up stretching to a couple of hours because I just did not want to stop listening.  This thing is soooooo nice!


----------



## Phantaminum

The MCTH paired with a Modi Multibit, Siemens E88CC,  E-Mu Teaks (or any Fostex variant), and Tidal Hifi sounds fantastic. It’s making me  a bit too much at work.

I’ve become more impressed with the value and sound this amp offers.

@buldogge The Reflektors give it slightly more warmth than the Siemens and just a tad bit more euphony. It fills it out a bit more but it’s not as even as the Siemens. I’m going to leave it in burning all week.

Is anyone else experiencing channel imbalance at  lower volumes?


----------



## Bazirker

Phantaminum said:


> The MCTH paired with a Modi Multibit, Siemens E88CC,  E-Mu Teaks (or any Fostex variant), and Tidal Hifi sounds fantastic. It’s making me  a bit too much at work.
> 
> I’ve become more impressed with the value and sound this amp offers.
> 
> ...



I can hear ever-so-slight channel imbalance with my HD 6XX at what is basically the lowest perceivable volume, far quieter than would be acceptable for any kind of listening; the left ear comes in before the right.  I can not perceive any channel imbalance with any of my in-ear headphones at any volume.


----------



## Phantaminum

Bazirker said:


> I can hear ever-so-slight channel imbalance with my HD 6XX at what is basically the lowest perceivable volume, far quieter than would be acceptable for any kind of listening; the left ear comes in before the right.  I can not perceive any channel imbalance with any of my in-ear headphones at any volume.



Same experience in having with the E-Mu Teaks but I do play the headphones at much lower volume at work. I want to say it goes away around around 9 - 10 o’clock.


----------



## Bazirker

Phantaminum said:


> Same experience in having with the E-Mu Teaks but I do play the headphones at much lower volume at work. I want to say it goes away around around 9 - 10 o’clock.



For me, it's long gone by 8 o'clock; there's not a hint of it at 9, which is where I typically listen.


----------



## bamaskery

I received mine last weekend and have really been enjoying it with HE 560. Exceptionally smooth and coherent with very good detail. I put in a 70 Voskhod assuming that if a new EH is stock and recommended that an older Voskhod would be even better. I never really gave the stock tube a chance. This was my first Massdrop purchase and I recently joined the 6xx drop. I remember when the 650 was the top and most expensive headphone back when I was in grad school and now a similar model is half what it cost used back then. It has been fun to get back into this hobby since I never get to listen to speakers these days.


----------



## mtoc

internal photos, anyone?


----------



## Olev

Photos from user spritzer on head-case forum:


----------



## greenkiwi

thanks for the photos


----------



## m usicguy

I through one of my gold lion 6922 in.  I think it smoother and warmer than the eh 6922.

Musicguy


----------



## Bazirker (Mar 15, 2018)

So my two year old infiltrated my home office, activated my standing desk to an inappropriately high height, and the USB cable for the SDAC caught on a mantle and got pushed downwards such that it broke the USB micro jack inside the CTH+SDAC.  The CTH is functioning fine using an external input, but the SDAC doesn't work because the jack got busted.  I'm pretty upset, as I was thrilled with the sound I was getting out of this amp/DAC and have been thinking it might be end game  

Any considerations I may need to be aware of before I open it up to see if it's something I can fix myself?  Worst case scenario is I buy another DAC, but there's some magic gone with knowing I have a latent, busted DAC sitting inside my otherwise beautiful amp.

(I've got two degrees in engineering and have basic soldering skills, so no need for guidance there.)


----------



## runeight

Bazirker said:


> So my two year old infiltrated my home office, activated my standing desk to an inappropriately high height, and the USB cable for the SDAC caught on a mantle and got pushed downwards such that it broke the USB micro jack inside the CTH+SDAC.  The CTH is functioning fine using an external input, but the SDAC doesn't work because the jack got busted.  I'm pretty upset, as I was thrilled with the sound I was getting out of this amp/DAC and have been thinking it might be end game
> 
> Any considerations I may need to be aware of before I open it up to see if it's something I can fix myself?  Worst case scenario is I buy another DAC, but there's some magic gone with knowing I have a latent, busted DAC sitting inside my otherwise beautiful amp.
> 
> (I've got two degrees in engineering and have basic soldering skills, so no need for guidance there.)



The usb connector is on the SDAC daughter board which sits on top of the amp mother board. IRRC it is SMD. It would be tricky, but maybe possible to solder the pads. But I would expect also that the body is soldered to the board for grounding, and strength against insertion/removal. This might be trickier maybe even impossible.

But, if you have access to a hot air station I would guess you could get the old jack off with some care and float a new one on.


----------



## YtseJamer

The CTH is now available on Massdrop

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-cth-tube-hybrid-amp


----------



## maheeinfy (Mar 17, 2018)

nevermind


----------



## Roscoeiii

maheeinfy said:


> So CTH standalone or CTH+SDAC ?


Click on the link and find out.


----------



## Zachik

Roscoeiii said:


> Click on the link and find out.


That was cold!


----------



## Hansotek

Zachik said:


> That was cold!



But seriously, typing out than message had to take like 30 some clicks, actually clicking the link only takes one... people have gotta get better at being lazy around here.


----------



## Zachik

Hansotek said:


> But seriously, typing out than message had to take like 30 some clicks, actually clicking the link only takes one... people have gotta get better at being lazy around here.


I totally agree it was faster AND easier to just click on the link.  I never said the sarcastic / cold response was not justified


----------



## YtseJamer (Mar 17, 2018)

The new drop is available 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-cth-tube-hybrid-amp#description


----------



## Tom L

Has anyone used the MCTH with the Beyerdynamic T1 or Audeze LCD-X, or indeed with any Beyer or Audeze headphones? Most of the reviews that I've seen talk about how good it sounds with Sennheisers. I have HD-600s, so it's good to know that the MCTH will work well with them, but I'd like to know if it will also work well with my other headphones.

Thanks.


----------



## Cloud6

I just ordered one. Anyone else using this with an he500? I have a feeling this is gonna go really well with the Elex that'll come eventually.


----------



## Hansotek

Cloud6 said:


> I just ordered one. Anyone else using this with an he500? I have a feeling this is gonna go really well with the Elex that'll come eventually.



Just gave it a quick listen with the HE500, it's pretty damn good. Popped on a couple of my favorite HE500 + Cavalli amp tracks and the MCTH brought back some nice memories of the Crimson and Glass just now. It's obviously not a $3K plus amp like those others, but it definitely reminds my of why those were my favorite amps of all time with the HE500, if that makes any sense. Lots of similar things going on tonally with the midrange. It's got the same rock n' roll soul.

If you still have that TH600 in your sig, it should be really terrific for that, too. The Crimson and my modded D2000's were always a magic combo. Sounds killer with the MCTH too.


----------



## Hansotek

If anybody is wondering if the CTH pairs well with the Campfire Cascade, the answer is a resounding YES.


----------



## Cloud6

Hansotek said:


> Just gave it a quick listen with the HE500, it's pretty damn good. Popped on a couple of my favorite HE500 + Cavalli amp tracks and the MCTH brought back some nice memories of the Crimson and Glass just now. It's obviously not a $3K plus amp like those others, but it definitely reminds my of why those were my favorite amps of all time with the HE500, if that makes any sense. Lots of similar things going on tonally with the midrange. It's got the same rock n' roll soul.
> 
> If you still have that TH600 in your sig, it should be really terrific for that, too. The Crimson and my modded D2000's were always a magic combo. Sounds killer with the MCTH too.


Awesome, thanks for that! Can't wait to try the pairing out. Currently all I have is a Vali 2 which I may end up selling. For reference, what pads do you use on your he500s? I use focuspads most of the time but I can't help but want just a little treble some times.

Yeah I still have the th600s so that's really good to hear, I use the Dekoni sheepskin thx00 pads on them and I'm putting Emu Zebawood cups on too.


----------



## Hansotek

Cloud6 said:


> Awesome, thanks for that! Can't wait to try the pairing out. Currently all I have is a Vali 2 which I may end up selling. For reference, what pads do you use on your he500s? I use focuspads most of the time but I can't help but want just a little treble some times.
> 
> Yeah I still have the th600s so that's really good to hear, I use the Dekoni sheepskin thx00 pads on them and I'm putting Emu Zebawood cups on too.



My HE500 is heavily modded with the Jerg fuzzor mod and grill mod. The grill is also pinned in with a thin strip of Sorbothane, which damps the resonant treble frequency generated by the grill. I have a Mood Audio Silver Dragon on it. The pads are based on the FocusPad-A, but have been heavily modded, as well. I published a tutorial on how to do it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hansotek’s-focuspad-a-mod.748467/


----------



## Cloud6

Hansotek said:


> My HE500 is heavily modded with the Jerg fuzzor mod and grill mod. The grill is also pinned in with a thin strip of Sorbothane, which damps the resonant treble frequency generated by the grill. I have a Mood Audio Silver Dragon on it. The pads are based on the FocusPad-A, but have been heavily modded, as well. I published a tutorial on how to do it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hansotek’s-focuspad-a-mod.748467/


Oh, thanks for that. I'll have a look. I have jergpads I made myself but I don't use them often. They're just based off the pleather pads and no velour added.


----------



## pervysage

Hansotek said:


> If anybody is wondering if the CTH pairs well with the Campfire Cascade, the answer is a resounding YES.



Ugh, why did you have to post this?.......

Now I'm considering hopping on this Massdrop deal, lol 

Would probably get me to bring my TH900 out of the drawer and dusted off as well. Been a long time since I've had a tube amp and only enjoyed that headphone to the fullest out of a tube amp.


----------



## Hansotek

pervysage said:


> Ugh, why did you have to post this?.......
> 
> Now I'm considering hopping on this Massdrop deal, lol
> 
> Would probably get me to bring my TH900 out of the drawer and dusted off as well. Been a long time since I've had a tube amp and only enjoyed that headphone to the fullest out of a tube amp.



Yeah, I see they are LA900s in your sig. My Denons are close to LA2000s but w/ Ori pads... lots of the mods inside are the same. I jumped on the drop hoping to regain some of the synergy they had with the Crimson and I was not disappointed. It’s a nice amp for easy to drive stuff - the mids are so nice it’s really easy to forget it was only $250. 

Real nice match with the Cascade. I see you’re using a Lazuli with it - I’ll have to pull mine off my HD800 and give that a shot tomorrow. I can only imagine how hard the bass is going to hit with that thing on it, lol.


----------



## SpeedSmith (Mar 18, 2018)

Tom L said:


> Has anyone used the MCTH with the Beyerdynamic T1 or Audeze LCD-X, or indeed with any Beyer or Audeze headphones? Most of the reviews that I've seen talk about how good it sounds with Sennheisers. I have HD-600s, so it's good to know that the MCTH will work well with them, but I'd like to know if it will also work well with my other headphones.
> 
> Thanks.



I've been listening to my LCD-X's on the MCTH this morning.  The LCD-X is made more intimate with this pairing. With some songs I really enjoyed that.  The detail was nice, bass extension was ridiculously good.  But I think the soundstage is negatively impacted, not that they have that wide of one to begin with.  For me the LCD-X's lose a bit of what makes them so great when paired with the CTH.  Others may disagree.  However, I think they will be awesome with the MD LCX (at least I hope so).

Of my personal stash of cans, I most prefer the Focal Elear and Senn HD6xx.  The HD600s are also very nice, but I prefer them on my Bottlehead Crack.  I tend to favor a bit more bass and overall warmth.  But I will agree the HD600s are very much worth a listening session on the CTH.  Especially with older recordings, Rush, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, etc.

Now on to the Beyer T1s.  Since purchasing the HD6xx and Elears, my T1s have not been getting much air time.  After listening to them back to back, it seens like some of the music is gone.  But this is the case no matter what amp I'm using them with.  Putting them on with the CTH, I expected them to be shrill.  Instead I found them to produce very detailed highs.  Bass extension was also nice.  The overall presentation was pleasing.  Then I put the Senn's back on and everything got better.   The problem is, the CTH doesn't fix what I'm finding lacking in the T1.  In fact, the capabilities of the CTH make the deficiency greater.   Given I've fallen out of love with my Beyer's, I may not be the best person to ask about this pairing.  But wanted to share my thoughts since I had access to both cans you referenced.

For me the ultimate pairing with the MCTH so far has been with the Focal Clear.  I borrowed a friend's pair and the experience ruined me.    Its taken more than a few listening sessions with my Elears and HD6xx's to forget what I'm missing.  As soon as Clears come down in price, that will be my next purchase.

Music used this AM:
Chantaje - Shakira (feat Maluma)
Real Love - Lo Moon
Mountain O' Things - Tracy Chapman
Dreams - Fleetwood Mac
Gold Dust Woman - Fleetwood Mac
Hell to the Liars - London Grammar
Everyone Else - London Grammar
5 A.M. - David Gilmour
Gold - Chet Faker
Song of Sorrow - Elle King
Take Care of Business - Nina Simone
Desperado - Eagles
Hotel California - Eagles
Chain Lightning - Rush
Time Stands Still - Rush
I'm Coming out - Diana Ross
Somebody Else - The 1975
Alaska - Maggie Rogers
Casimir Pulaski Day - Sufjan Stevens
Buster Voodoo - Rodrigo y Gabriella
Muy Tranquilo - Gramatik
All songs were 320kb, Lossless, or HD


----------



## Tom L

SpeedSmith said:


> I've been listening to my LCD-X's on the MCTH this morning.  The LCD-X is made more intimate with this pairing. With some songs I really enjoyed that.  The detail was nice, bass extension was ridiculously good.  But I think the soundstage is negatively impacted, not that they have that wide of one to begin with.  For me the LCD-X's lose a bit of what makes them so great when paired with the CTH.  Others may disagree.  However, I think they will be awesome with the MD LCX (at least I hope so).
> 
> Of my personal stash of cans, I most prefer the Focal Elear and Senn HD6xx.  The HD600s are also very nice, but I prefer them on my Bottlehead Crack.  I tend to favor a bit more bass and overall warmth.  But I will agree the HD600s are very much worth a listening session on the CTH.  Especially with older recordings, Rush, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, etc.
> 
> ...



That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

I had considered the Focal Clear and Elear, but I got a good deal on the LCD-X and bought them instead. I may decide to sell them and buy the Massdrop Elex, though.


----------



## SpeedSmith

Tom L said:


> That's very helpful. Thank you very much.
> 
> I had considered the Focal Clear and Elear, but I got a good deal on the LCD-X and bought them instead. I may decide to sell them and buy the Massdrop Elex, though.



For the price, the Elex are very compelling.  I think that you'd be very happy with them.


----------



## Bazirker

Has anyone stacked a Schiit Modi 2 with this?  Any thoughts on sound?  Geometrically speaking, will the Modi 2 fit on top of them CTH given the tube?


----------



## Phantaminum

Bazirker said:


> Has anyone stacked a Schiit Modi 2 with this?  Any thoughts on sound?  Geometrically speaking, will the Modi 2 fit on top of them CTH given the tube?



I can’t answer your first questions since I have it paired with a Mimby. I can answer your second question and there’s plenty of space for a Modi 2.


----------



## Bazirker

Phantaminum said:


> I can’t answer your first questions since I have it paired with a Mimby. I can answer your second question and there’s plenty of space for a Modi 2.



How do you feel about Mimby -> MCTH -> HD650?  The Mimby costs 3x as much as the SDAC I was using, so I would presume it to be at least technically superior.


----------



## Phantaminum

Bazirker said:


> How do you feel about Mimby -> MCTH -> HD650?  The Mimby costs 3x as much as the SDAC I was using, so I would presume it to be at least technically superior.



I’ve used the Oppo HA-2 DAC portion, the Mass Drop Grace m9XX DAC, and the Schiit Fulla 2 DAC. I prefer the Mimby out of all of them since it has more instrument separation compared to the others through USB. It’s not a big leap and everything being equal all of those DACs will work perfectly fine.  But if you throw in a Schiit Eitr with a BNC connection to the Mimby it *really* punches above its weight class.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

I've been looking to go balanced & for a lot of amps there seems to be compromises. The Jotunheim's DAC is pretty polarizing. The CMA400i is very nice but also on the expensive side. This amp's price seems like a fantastic deal...but I've read that it's not "truly balanced" several times & I'm trying to figure out what that means. Does the balanced port only serve as a secondary connection, not providing more power like it does on the Jot & 400i? Or is it not truly balanced because you'd need a balanced dac to go with it? Are both questions true?


----------



## kukkurovaca

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> I've been looking to go balanced & for a lot of amps there seems to be compromises. The Jotunheim's DAC is pretty polarizing. The CMA400i is very nice but also on the expensive side. This amp's price seems like a fantastic deal...but I've read that it's not "truly balanced" several times & I'm trying to figure out what that means. Does the balanced port only serve as a secondary connection, not providing more power like it does on the Jot & 400i? Or is it not truly balanced because you'd need a balanced dac to go with it? Are both questions true?



The CTH is not balanced at all. The XLR point is only for convenience for those who happen to have headphones terminated in XLR. It's the same as having an XLR to 1/4 or 3.5mm adapter on the end of your headphone cable.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

kukkurovaca said:


> The CTH is not balanced at all. The XLR point is only for convenience for those who happen to have headphones terminated in XLR. It's the same as having an XLR to 1/4 or 3.5mm adapter on the end of your headphone cable.


Ah, thanks. I thought since the solid state variant of this amp was balanced this would be too, but I didn't notice that it's not labeled as such so bad assumption there. I guess the search will continue...


----------



## kukkurovaca

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> Ah, thanks. I thought since the solid state variant of this amp was balanced this would be too, but I didn't notice that it's not labeled as such so bad assumption there. I guess the search will continue...



The Liquid Carbon is a balanced amp, but I think that the Liquid Carbon is a whole different design from the CTH; I don't think they're intended to be versions of each other.

I'm sure the Liquid Carbon will drop again, or Massdrop is currently running a drop for their THX AAA amp, which is balanced. Other semi-affordable solid state balanced options include the Topping DX7, some Audio GD options, Fostex HPA4BL (although it's a little low-powered), Aune S7

If you specifically want a balanced _tube _amp, you could look at the Xduoo TA-20 (not the TA-10, which Massdrop incorrectly labels as balanced!) or the Little Dot Mark III SE.


----------



## TheGame21x

Welp, as soon as I saw this dropped as a daily with immediate shipping, I couldn't help myself. Ugh. My wallet is going to hate me. Looking forward to comparing it with my Vali 2!


----------



## Bazirker

TheGame21x said:


> Welp, as soon as I saw this dropped as a daily with immediate shipping, I couldn't help myself. Ugh. My wallet is going to hate me. Looking forward to comparing it with my Vali 2!



I only briefly listened to a Vali 2 once at a meet, but I suspect you'll be listing it for sale soon after your CTH arrives.


----------



## TheGame21x

Bazirker said:


> I only briefly listened to a Vali 2 once at a meet, but I suspect you'll be listing it for sale soon after your CTH arrives.



Haha, well, I have to admit, I was thinking the same thing! Can't wait for it to get here!


----------



## cardeli22

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> Ah, thanks. I thought since the solid state variant of this amp was balanced this would be too, but I didn't notice that it's not labeled as such so bad assumption there. I guess the search will continue...


The Liquid Carbon and this are different products. This is based on one of Cavalli's early DIY designs.


----------



## latios507 (Mar 20, 2018)

Im planning to get this to complement it with my Beloved ifi micro idsd BL

Does anyone have any experience in using Sony MDR-Z1R or ZMF Atticus with this Massdrop x CTH?

Im gonna get either 1 of those headphones next week and this CTH is on my list too.

Im inclined to buy the can depending on which one will synergize well with CTH

Thanks!


----------



## slugman

I've been wanting a good tube amp, although this is a hybrid I couldn't resist considering it was in stock. Mine ships out next monday 3/26. I can hardly wait!

I guess now I just gotta get some good cans. I only own the K7XX's, planning on nabbing some advsound alpha planars soon.


----------



## franz12

latios507 said:


> Im planning to get this to complement it with my Beloved ifi micro idsd BL
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in using Sony MDR-Z1R or ZMF Atticus with this Massdrop x CTH?
> 
> ...



From users' impressions I read here and there, MCTH is a slightly warm amp that goes very well with bright headphones like hd800s or utopia. Mine was shipped today. I eager to pair it with my ether c flow which is also slightly bright.


----------



## Bazirker (Mar 25, 2018)

Bazirker said:


> So my two year old infiltrated my home office, activated my standing desk to an inappropriately high height, and the USB cable for the SDAC caught on a mantle and got pushed downwards such that it broke the USB micro jack inside the CTH+SDAC.  The CTH is functioning fine using an external input, but the SDAC doesn't work because the jack got busted.  I'm pretty upset, as I was thrilled with the sound I was getting out of this amp/DAC and have been thinking it might be end game
> 
> Any considerations I may need to be aware of before I open it up to see if it's something I can fix myself?  Worst case scenario is I buy another DAC, but there's some magic gone with knowing I have a latent, busted DAC sitting inside my otherwise beautiful amp.
> 
> (I've got two degrees in engineering and have basic soldering skills, so no need for guidance there.)



So I open the box up, and here's the Jack I pulled out. It was a clean break, and the board itself looks completely fine. It feels like I can see that back into position on the board and it fits in place as it should, it just obviously isn't attached. Based on this, anybody have suggestions and how to reattach or replace it, or if it seems possible at all?


----------



## greenkiwi

It looks like some of the pads might have been pulled off. I'd contact MD and see if they could sell you a replacement DAC board.

If you wanted to solder, @runeight  had some suggestions in the post following your first post. Given the size, you likely need access to some good solder gear.


----------



## Bazirker

greenkiwi said:


> Given the size, you likely need access to some good solder gear.



Yup, that's the problem, lol


----------



## runeight

Bazirker said:


> Yup, that's the problem, lol



I think you may need a new board. Don't know of MD makes those available. If it's the same board used on standalone SDAC product you could just buy one and swap the entire board.


----------



## spyder1

runeight,

Is the vacuum tube stage  of the CTH "tube input," or tube output? Tube input = noise filter, tube output = tube sound.


----------



## runeight (Mar 26, 2018)

It is tube input and gain stage. SS unity gain buffer output.

Though I wouldn't necessarily agree with your descriptions of sound vs. location in circuit.


----------



## greenkiwi

runeight said:


> I think you may need a new board. Don't know of MD makes those available. If it's the same board used on standalone SDAC product you could just buy one and swap the entire board.



Yeah, it looks like pads might have been pulled up.


----------



## JWahl

TheGame21x said:


> Welp, as soon as I saw this dropped as a daily with immediate shipping, I couldn't help myself. Ugh. My wallet is going to hate me. Looking forward to comparing it with my Vali 2!



Same here. I'll be comparing it to my newish iFi Micro iCan SE and then selling one of them.  I recently downgraded from my Torpedo 3 DIY amp in order to upgrade my Chord Mojo to Chord Qutest (Still waiting on that).  I wanted to try the CTH, but didn't want to wait months.

I'll probably wait to sell one of them until the Qutest arrives to compare both with the better source.


----------



## cardeli22 (Mar 26, 2018)

JWahl said:


> Same here. I'll be comparing it to my newish iFi Micro iCan SE and then selling one of them.  I recently downgraded from my Torpedo 3 DIY amp in order to upgrade my Chord Mojo to Chord Qutest (Still waiting on that).  I wanted to try the CTH, but didn't want to wait months.
> 
> I'll probably wait to sell one of them until the Qutest arrives to compare both with the better source.


LOL had like a double take/deja vu moment when I read your Massdrop post and then the almost the same post here.


----------



## JWahl

cardeli22 said:


> LOL had like a double take/deja vu moment when I read you Massdrop post and then the almost the same post here.



Haha, yeah.  I did post similarly here about half an hour or so after that post.  I was excited to see it as in stock.  I'm averse to the long waits after the TH-X00 Purpleheart drop awhile back.


----------



## cardeli22

JWahl said:


> Haha, yeah.  I did post similarly here about half an hour or so after that post.  I was excited to see it as in stock.  I'm averse to the long waits after the TH-X00 Purpleheart drop awhile back.


Yeah some of the MD drops are 6-7 months long. That makes it quite rough when the upgrade itch demands instant gratification. LOL


----------



## Hansotek

latios507 said:


> Im planning to get this to complement it with my Beloved ifi micro idsd BL
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in using Sony MDR-Z1R or ZMF Atticus with this Massdrop x CTH?
> 
> ...



I mentioned earlier in the thread, synergy with the Atticus is 10/10. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...-dropping-monday.857673/page-26#post-14075104

I also enjoy Atticus with the Black Label, but CTH synergy with the Atticus midrange is definitely special.


----------



## jinrawke

Hansotek said:


> I mentioned earlier in the thread, synergy with the Atticus is 10/10. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...-dropping-monday.857673/page-26#post-14075104
> 
> I also enjoy Atticus with the Black Label, but CTH synergy with the Atticus midrange is definitely special.



I almost want to get an Atticus now too.... and I haven't even received my Auteur!


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

I'm looking to pair this with the JDS Labs EL Dac rather than a Mimby due to its Schiity USB implementation & no spidf on my motherboard meaning no Eitr either. Hopefully they synergize well


----------



## kukkurovaca

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> & no spidf on my motherboard meaning no Eitr either. Hopefully they synergize well



Wait, doesn't the Eitr take USB in and output SPDIF?


----------



## pichu (Mar 28, 2018)

kukkurovaca said:


> Wait, doesn't the Eitr take USB in and output SPDIF?


Yep.

the setup would be the order of

Computer > USB > Schiit Eitr > Coaxial cable > DAC


----------



## reeltime (Mar 28, 2018)

I've always wanted to own a Cavalli amp. It's one of those long-term goals on an audiophile checklist. My biggest issue has been finding one. Cavalli products are so popular, or in such limited runs, usually about the time I can afford one, the site is out of stock. So when Massdrop offered this amp up, I was all-in.

I have been waiting for a night when I could give this purchase a decent listen. After finally getting to it after a few weeks, the only thing I can say, "What the hell was I waiting for? This thing is freaking great!"

I'm pairing the amp with an AK240, through a Chord Hugo DAC. I have 3 headphones at my disposal, the Sennheiser 650, the Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart, and the Hifiman HE-1000v2.

The Cavalli Tube Hybrid drove all three headphones without issue-- though you really have to crank it up to drive the HE1000v2.

The HE-1000v2 is a spectacular pairing, though it does make use of the entire volume knob's range. Rocking music will leave a bit at the top of the pot for headroom. Quieter tracks can take full volume. The HE-1000 drinks every watt this thing can deliver.
The sound on the HE-1000v2 (using a balanced cable--EDIT: which makes no difference, electrically, I should add-- the amp is a SET) is beautifully warm with surprising clarity-- I'm assuming the SS part of the amp is providing this characteristic. It isn't quite my Woo WA-5 LEv2 (at 1/30th the price), but it's very very nice, and a wonderful experience.

Moving to the TH-X00 Purpleheart-- this might be my favorite pairing of the three. The efficiency of the TH-X00 is a great match. The sound is massive. The deep sub-bass with this pairing is extremely satisfying. Fleetwood Mac (1975) really caught my attention, and Los Lobos' "Kiko" was divine. On bass heavy tracks, the bass can get a bit into bloat at higher volume levels-- it became too much of a good thing while listening to Mumford & Sons' "Babel." But if you like a little thump now and again, this pairing will scratch that itch, and it's outstanding at lower volume levels. The TH-X00 really comes alive under this amp's power, and it may be the best pairing I've heard with this headphone overall, including the WA-5LE. Clear. Dynamic. Fun. I believe you won't find a better match for the price.

Finally the HD-650. This pairing wasn't working for me. It lacked the bass of the previous two headphones, and the upper frequencies lost some of the magic-- the sound took on a tinnier, metallic tone, comparatively. Had I not listened to the other two cans prior, my feelings may have been different.

Negatives? The soundstage isn't terribly wide. It can be defeated by power hungry cans. On uber-bassy tracks, you may experience some bloat on bass-rich headphones.

All in all, for $250 bucks, this purchase is a no-brainer, unless you're pairing it with something that needs a butt-load of power, like the HD-800 or Abyss. But if you're spending at that price point for a headphone, chances are a $250 dollar amp isn't your first choice anyway. It's not as clean sounding as the Hugo direct output, but the Hugo direct output is positively sterile compared to the warmth the Cavalli brings to the table. I much preferred the Cavalli in the chain.

Outstanding achievement.


----------



## Rick T.

Hello,

Anyone tried the Aeon Flow Open with the CTH? Can it drive it well without clipping (with complex music material?) Thanks!


----------



## Phantaminum

Rick T. said:


> Hello,
> 
> Anyone tried the Aeon Flow Open with the CTH? Can it drive it well without clipping (with complex music material?) Thanks!



I have. The AFO sounds good out of the MTCH but compared to my Mjolnir 2 it’s a bit flatter. The sound isn’t as full or as punchy and the AFO really drinks up power.

I’d recommend the Gilmore Lite MK2 instead or a possibly a Lyr 3. With that said those amps are twice the amount of the MTCH and the MJ2 is triple.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

The new dac hasn't arrived yet but I found my CTH sitting at my door & dropped everything immediately to set it up. It's obviously not burned in yet but I wanted to hear the evolution over the next 100 hours they recommend. I'm so excited


----------



## Bazirker

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> The new dac hasn't arrived yet but I found my CTH sitting at my door & dropped everything immediately to set it up. It's obviously not burned in yet but I wanted to hear the evolution over the next 100 hours they recommend. I'm so excited



I'd like to hear your thoughts on the CTH with the Elex, in particular.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

Bazirker said:


> I'd like to hear your thoughts on the CTH with the Elex, in particular.


I'll be sure to tag you when I get them. They're still a little over a month away from shipping


----------



## Bazirker

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> I'll be sure to tag you when I get them. They're still a little over a month away from shipping



Looooooooool duh, I should've known you didn't have them in hand yet!  I'm jealous, wish I had some on queue too.


----------



## me2621a

Mine just got plugged in and I have to say I am pretty impressed with it into my Grados PS1000es. Will probably try a few tubes in it in the next day or two and see what I think but I hear the stock tube is actually quite well matched.


----------



## heliosphann

Rick T. said:


> Hello,
> 
> Anyone tried the Aeon Flow Open with the CTH? Can it drive it well without clipping (with complex music material?) Thanks!



I just tried the AFO with the CTH and it was a pass for me. I didn't even listen to it but 4-5 songs and switched to a different headphone. Sounded somewhat muddy and congested.

Think a more neutral/brighter amp will pair much better with the AFO.


----------



## antdroid (Mar 31, 2018)

I just got mine today. Sounds good so far.

I do have an issue. My Balanced XLR cable seems to overload the circuit if I move the dial past 9 o'clock and the led turns red and shuts off after blinking for a bit. Using the 6.5mm input, I dont have any issues thus far.

*fixed: issue was my DIY cable had some loose wires that may have been contacting each other.*


----------



## greenkiwi

antdroid said:


> I just got mine today. Sounds good so far.
> 
> I do have an issue. My Balanced XLR cable seems to overload the circuit if I move the dial past 9 o'clock and the led turns red and shuts off after blinking for a bit. Using the 6.5mm input, I dont have any issues thus far.



I believe that they are supposed to be electrically the same, with the - pins on the XLR just tied to the same ground pin from the 6.5mm.


----------



## YtseJamer

The ZMF Atticus powered by the Cavalli Tube Hybrid is a match made in heaven!


----------



## Rick T.

Thanks for the feeback gents.. I’m now thinking of a small desktop amp or semi-desktop trans/portable like the Ifi Micro iDSD BL. It seems to have a lot of juice on tap.. I have yet to audition it with the AFO...


----------



## Phantaminum

YtseJamer said:


> The ZMF Atticus powered by the Cavalli Tube Hybrid is a match made in heaven!




Looks like you have a tube monger socket saver in there. Did you put the socket saver on a tube and then push it into the amp? I've been thinking of doing this but hell, I don't really find myself rolling a bunch of tubes in this particular amp.


----------



## YtseJamer

Phantaminum said:


> Looks like you have a tube monger socket saver in there. Did you put the socket saver on a tube and then push it into the amp? I've been thinking of doing this but hell, I don't really find myself rolling a bunch of tubes in this particular amp.



Good question.  I'm not the first owner of the amp and the socket saver was already installed when I got it from @bb rodriquez


----------



## bb rodriquez

Phantaminum said:


> Looks like you have a tube monger socket saver in there. Did you put the socket saver on a tube and then push it into the amp? I've been thinking of doing this but hell, I don't really find myself rolling a bunch of tubes in this particular amp.



Yeah I made the socket saver have a "snug" fit to the bottom of the tube, got it seated in the socket on the amp, removed the tube from the socket saver and pushed it down all the way.

It was kind of a waste of money since I couldn't tell a significant difference in tubes when rolling. I would only recommend it if you want to try tube rolling or want the tube to sit above the chassis for whatever reason. There was some slight sound changes from tube to tube, but nothing revolutionary. Massdrop and Cavalli did a good job making it sound good with new production 6922s.


----------



## antdroid

greenkiwi said:


> I believe that they are supposed to be electrically the same, with the - pins on the XLR just tied to the same ground pin from the 6.5mm.



I think I fixed it. I made my own XLR cable and I think i had a wire that was long and uncovered and it may have been in contact or close enough to another wire to cause it to short. Interestingly enough, this wasnt an issue on my true balanced amp


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 31, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I think I fixed it. I made my own XLR cable and I think i had a wire that was long and uncovered and it may have been in contact or close enough to another wire to cause it to short. Interestingly enough, this wasnt an issue on my true balanced amp





reeltime said:


> I've always wanted to own a Cavalli amp. It's one of those long-term goals on an audiophile checklist. My biggest issue has been finding one. Cavalli products are so popular, or in such limited runs, usually about the time I can afford one, the site is out of stock. So when Massdrop offered this amp up, I was all-in.
> 
> I have been waiting for a night when I could give this purchase a decent listen. After finally getting to it after a few weeks, the only thing I can say, "What the hell was I waiting for? This thing is freaking great!"
> 
> ...



The MCTH sounds fantastic with my original wood Nighthawks and my HE-5 HiFiMans, but just ok with my HD6XX Massdrops.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 31, 2018)

With my unmodified HD800, the mids and highs are less forward/aggressive through the MCTH than  the Jotunheim. Both combinations are very good, but for now I like the MCTH much better for classical music.


----------



## pichu

Eager to hear how this amp compares to the Schiit Lyr 3


----------



## heliosphann

pichu said:


> Eager to hear how this amp compares to the Schiit Lyr 3



Working on it. I'll try to get some time with both this week.


----------



## franz12

It has been about 36 hours since I got it. It has a great sound.

I A/Bed against my Hugo direct connection with my ether c flow.  Honestly, I have had a hard time what is exactly difference between two different connections. I guess I have to listen long hours to figure them out.


----------



## antdroid

franz12 said:


> It has been about 36 hours since I got it. It has a great sound.
> 
> I A/Bed against my Hugo direct connection with my ether c flow.  Honestly, I have had a hard time what is exactly difference between two different connections. I guess I have to listen long hours to figure them out.



I've been listening back and forth side by side with my Topping DX7 and the CTH and I can hear the warmth difference between the two. The DX7 is very calculated and clean, while the CTH has a slight warmth to it that is quite enjoyable, especially with my HE560. I intended to put this in my living room where I do some listening (and currently have a cheaper hybrid tube amp), but it hasn't left my desktop yet where I do more listening....


----------



## pichu

heliosphann said:


> Working on it. I'll try to get some time with both this week.


Awesome me will be looking forward to it!!


----------



## sheldaze

fortunate son said:


> With my unmodified HD800, the mids and highs are less forward/aggressive through the MCTH than  the Jotunheim. Both combinations are very good, but for now I like the MCTH much better for classical music.


 I'm curious if you've heard the modified HD6XX? Also, a little more direct, wondering if you planned to go to the meet next weekend. There you can hear a few variations of the HD6x0 series and compare your thoughts on your Jot vs MCTH and Lyr 3.


----------



## fortunate son

sheldaze said:


> I'm curious if you've heard the modified HD6XX? Also, a little more direct, wondering if you planned to go to the meet next weekend. There you can hear a few variations of the HD6x0 series and compare your thoughts on your Jot vs MCTH and Lyr 3.


No, unfortunately I have not heard the modified 6XX and I will not be attending the meet. I am happy with my headphone collection for now and my focus has shifted to finding a Liquid Crimson amp that someone is willing to sell. In the meantime, I am enjoying the MCTH very much. It gets me more wrapped up in the music I like more than any amp I have owned.


----------



## sheldaze

fortunate son said:


> No, unfortunately I have not heard the modified 6XX and I will not be attending the meet. I am happy with my headphone collection for now and my focus has shifted to finding a Liquid Crimson amp that someone is willing to sell. In the meantime, I am enjoying the MCTH very much. It gets me more wrapped up in the music I like more than any amp I have owned.



Not unfortunate, fortunate son 
More just an alternative on the HD6XX, very slight change. And more glad to hear you enjoying the MCTH, and wishing you best of luck to find the Crimson 

I'm also trying to better understand if a power supply can make the MCTH closer to the Crimson sound.


----------



## fortunate son (Apr 1, 2018)

sheldaze said:


> Not unfortunate, fortunate son
> More just an alternative on the HD6XX, very slight change. And more glad to hear you enjoying the MCTH, and wishing you best of luck to find the Crimson
> 
> I'm also trying to better understand if a power supply can make the MCTH closer to the Crimson sound.



A few days ago I bought a Teddy Pardo 28V power supply  for my MCTH which is on its way to me from Israel. I used one of Pardo's 12V units with a dac I used to own and it really opened up the sound a lot, improved focus and a lot of other good stuff. In case you have ever used Naim gear, the Pardo brought about the kind of improvement you get when you upgrade from a Naim built-in power supply to the TOTL Naim outboard power supply. This is the Pardo unit I bought, except it will be a 28V 1.25 amp instead of the 24V 1 amp version that is shown in this link: https://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/generic/teddy24.html


----------



## Sanlitun

Since receiving this amp I've spent a lot of time with it, rolled more than a few tubes and tried out some different sources that would seem appropriately matched.




 

The combo with the old X-Sabre and the Schiit Eitr is my fave. Detailed with solid bass and a chilling vocal presence. They stack well although I may put some black tape over the X-Sabre Logo. 



 

Took a look at the Brooklyn as well as the units are about the same size and I thought the detail the Brooklyn has would suit the Cavalli. The Brooklyn has issues as a DAC as the output is so hot, but with the low gain jumpers set it was ok here. However I didn't find the extra detail really worked as it was mostly just adding edge definition and was not as realistic and present as the X-Sabre. I would rather just listen to the headphone out on the Brooklyn in this case and enjoy the resolution. The only reason I've hung on to the Brooklyn even though it didn't work out as a DAC for me is that the HP out is really good, and it's one of the better SS headphone setups I have heard when used as an all in one. The Brooklyn gets quite warm and doesn't like to be stacked, so another issue.

So the MCTH is a real surprise, it's a fantastic amp and has knocked my previous setup off the desk. It's easily the best bargain in headphone amps at the moment and is the better of some much more well known and / or  expensive units.  I rolled in almost all of my 6922 genre tubes including the super rare and super quiet and most of them were indistinguishable from each other. There were a few exceptions, and very few notable exceptions. I ended up using a 60's Siemens 6DJ8, one of the ones with RCA labels so not an expensive tube. The best tubes were those with a low noise floor and a flat response. Really happy with this purchase and I will pay close attention to what Massdrop does next.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> The new dac hasn't arrived yet but I found my CTH sitting at my door & dropped everything immediately to set it up. It's obviously not burned in yet but I wanted to hear the evolution over the next 100 hours they recommend. I'm so excited


I'm close to that 100 hour mark & the warmth has come down a tad. It sounds better than it did out of the box with my LCD-2Cs but the bass it added to the 6XXs has gone down a lot, which makes me sad 

That being said I love this amp. Much better handling of distortion at high volumes v. my magni 3 & the coloration lends itself perfectly to the music I listen to.


----------



## gken92

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> I'm close to that 100 hour mark & the warmth has come down a tad. It sounds better than it did out of the box with my LCD-2Cs but the bass it added to the 6XXs has gone down a lot, which makes me sad
> 
> That being said I love this amp. Much better handling of distortion at high volumes v. my magni 3 & the coloration lends itself perfectly to the music I listen to.


Would u recommend pairing LCD2C with CTH? or does the magni 3 sounded better? Thanks


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

gken92 said:


> Would u recommend pairing LCD2C with CTH? or does the magni 3 sounded better? Thanks


Pre-burn in, magni 3. On low gain it sounded it better but at high gain it distorted faster. Post burn in, CTH. Minimal distortion, widens the soundstage a bit, adds a touch of air to the treble. I'm about to sell my magni; it'll collect dust otherwise.


----------



## lugnut

Sanlitun said:


> So the MCTH is a real surprise, it's a fantastic amp and has knocked my previous setup off the desk. It's easily the best bargain in headphone amps at the moment and is the better of some much more well known and / or expensive units. I rolled in almost all of my 6922 genre tubes including the super rare and super quiet and most of them were indistinguishable from each other. There were a few exceptions, and very few notable exceptions. I ended up using a 60's Siemens 6DJ8, one of the ones with RCA labels so not an expensive tube. The best tubes were those with a low noise floor and a flat response. Really happy with this purchase and I will pay close attention to what Massdrop does next.


I agree with most of your findings ! I also have a nice little collection of 6dj8/6922 left over from previous preamps/headphone amps. I think the tube that comes with amp is actually quite good, and will probably be all you need for most headphones. I am trying out all my headphones with this amp, I Like to spend at least 4 or 5 days with each one. For me this is a much better way of comparing hp's vs trying to compare each pair a song at a time. So far here is what I have listened to.
1. Beyer Amiron Home, sounds great with this amp. Large sound stage, just a rich overall sound. Stock tube is just fine no need for me to chase a dragon for different tubes.
2. AQ Nighthawk, sound was a little bloated, I did try another tube in place of the stock tube. Pulled a early 1960's Bugle Boy out of my speaker system preamp. Main difference was slight but noticeable tighter bass and more definition, bass slammed as good as solid state, with 3d like effect that a tube can bring.
3. Senn HD650 stock tube again was a winner with these, very nice. Not as much effect as the previous HP's however I am just starting my time with these.
For a $250 amp, I could not really ask for more. I am also surprised how well it matches with the stock tube. It is euphoric with a very large soundstage with the Amiron and I would guess would be the same with other Beyerdynamic HP's. Looking forward to trying out some headphones with this little amp !


----------



## JWahl (Apr 3, 2018)

[Edited update of the below: I might have jumped the gun.  I let it run for awhile and came back to it and it's sounding a bit better.  Must be the fresh tube running in.  I'll give it more time before passing any judgements.]

Got mine in today and did some early listening and comparing to the iCan Micro SE and listening with my modded HD-650.  So far, for my tastes, i'm a little underwhelmed.  I'm still going to give it plenty more time though.  I'm still waiting on my Chord Qutest to compare them with instead of the Mojo.

Right now, It's a lot more laid back than I was expecting.  Probably the most laid back sounding amp I've owned yet.   The lower midrange down feels loose and indistinct.  A lot of that could be the lack of a linear power supply, but I don't have that problem with the iCan (when the similar price point of both are considered).

In all fairness, I did recently downgrade from a much higher-end Torpedo III DIY amp.  I don't expect either of them to be on the same level.  However, the little iCan has impressed me so far at its price point.

On the plus side, the CTH does have a nice sense of air and space from the tube, as well as pleasant, euphonic tone.  It does seem to lean a bit more toward that euphonic spectrum than neutral.  It also looks very nice and fits perfectly on my mini desktop shelf.


----------



## JWahl

Pretty much disregard my whole previous post.  I'm now finding the CTH superior to the iCan in every way.  It sounded like hot garbage out of the box, but it is much better now.  I'm well aware that solid state circuitry can take awhile to warm up from cold, this seemed to take longer than I expected to get to temp.  That and the new tube, I'm guessing.  It's been running for at least 3 hours now.

Much better soundstage and 3d positioning.  Midrange clarity is improved.  Lows are less wooly and it's less laid back overall.  Very impressed for $250.  Can't wait to hear how it handles the better source.



JWahl said:


> [Edited update of the below: I might have jumped the gun.  I let it run for awhile and came back to it and it's sounding a bit better.  Must be the fresh tube running in.  I'll give it more time before passing any judgements.]
> 
> Got mine in today and did some early listening and comparing to the iCan Micro SE and listening with my modded HD-650.  So far, for my tastes, i'm a little underwhelmed.  I'm still going to give it plenty more time though.  I'm still waiting on my Chord Qutest to compare them with instead of the Mojo.
> 
> ...


----------



## crazychile

You've got to let the amp (and/or your ears) break in a little and acclimate to the sound of the MCTH. While I liked the amp from the beginning, I'm appreciating it more and more as time goes by. The HD-650s and this amp are a great match.


----------



## swmtnbiker

It sounds great with my Clears as well. Now I've got to decide between this, my Vali 2, and my Magni 3.


----------



## franz12

It has been about a week since I got it. I use with my ether c flow. But sound doesn't seem to be as much clean as I expected.
Especially, when I raise volume from 7 to 8 o'clock, I hear audible noise when music is playing. Is it normal? Is there anyone else who hear unwanted noise?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Mine is dead silent, even at the 10 o'clock position. Could be your source. Noisy USB perhaps.


----------



## GuddoggEli

Hi, franz12.  This isn't about the MCTH in particular, but I had a similar problem once.  The first thing I did was to move computer, dac, amp, etc to several different locations.  In my case, the noise signature remained the same.  That meant my problem was in the device chain.  I was fortunate, after replacing cables (no answer), I bought an ifi iPurifier2 that not only got rid of the noise, but increase the sound quality a bit.  My device chain now contains an ifi Nano iOne, which is a dac (Burr-Brown) and most of the noise-correcting circuitry that ifi makes, it has a HiRes quality Bluetooth capability, including aptx, and includes galvanic isolation on spdif.  This worked for me, but the iPurifier2 (under $100) and the iOne ($200) are not cheap solutions.  YMMV.


----------



## franz12

Thanks for the replies! Noise is heard only when I am dialing volume somewhere between 7 and 9 o'clock. I am unsure at this point whether the amp circuits are defective.
I changed the RCA cables today, but the issue persists. I am receiving a Toslink cable tomorrow for the coaxial input and see whether the issue goes away.


----------



## swmtnbiker

The CTH has no coaxial input, as it's only an amplifier. Are you talking about using coax on your DAC instead of USB to try and isolate the cause of the noise problem?


----------



## franz12 (Apr 4, 2018)

Yes. My rig is mac pro 2015 - fiio q5 - mcth - ether c flow. At this point, it seems that the direct connection to fiio q5 is cleaner. When I am dialing volume on mcth, audible noise kicks in.


----------



## Bazirker

franz12 said:


> Yes. My rig is mac pro 2015 - fiio q5 - mcth - ether c flow. At this point, it seems that the direct connection to fiio q5 is cleaner. When I am dialing volume on mcth, audible noise kicks in.



Odd.  I have written earlier in this thread about my love of the volume pot on this amp, how smooth it is, and the lack of audible noise when changing volume.  You have a peculiar problem indeed.


----------



## SonnyMarrow

Did Massdrop stop selling this amp with the built in DAC? I swear I saw it a couple of days ago for $319.99 or something like that.


----------



## reeltime

SonnyMarrow said:


> Did Massdrop stop selling this amp with the built in DAC? I swear I saw it a couple of days ago for $319.99 or something like that.



There was a brief drop a few weeks ago that added a Grace DAC (another Massdrop branded item) built in. I didn't pay super close attention because I already bought one of the first drop without the DAC, and I pair mine with the Chord Hugo and Hugo TT, which are better DACs.


----------



## junki (Apr 8, 2018)

Due to censorship, a small part of this review was excised. The full review is available here.

My preferences and equipment history are up-to-date on my Head-Fi profile.

I got the SDAC+MCTH for my office to replace the Dragonfly Red, a particularly musical little thing I've been fond of for several years, which drove my HD6XX to satisfaction for all the work things I have to listen to. At home, I listen with the Sundara, and I have a hole in my chain that has been temporarily filled by the integrated DAC and headphone amplifier in my Audioengine HD3 powered speakers.

I burned in the unit for about as long as Alex recommends. I left MCTH playing overnight and through the next day's work hours.

For my first night listening to the SDAC+MCTH, I used it at home with my Sundara. Long story short, I did not like the pairing of the Sundara with the SDAC+MCTH as much as (to my surprise) with the HD3. After quite a bit of A/B testing between the SDAC>MCTH and the SDAC>HD3, I've come to two conclusions. The Sundara is a can that is inherently slightly airy and soft but just enough to not hurt resolution and clarity. In fact it is the most resolving cans I've heard, and it's this balance of musical clarity that I really like. Paired with the MCTH, overall sound became _too soft_ and _too airy_, such that it felt a little hazy and resolution, separation, and layering seemed to suffer. It's as if the overall picture became a bit blurry. Soundstage was slightly more expansive, but it did not make up for the worse imaging. More obvious to me, the bass, especially the lower end of it, just did not sound as extended, loud, or controlled through the MCTH as through the HD3, and bass is one of the main reasons I listen to planars.

I decided to take the SDAC+MCTH into my office and pair it with the HD6XX. Maybe I came into this second audition with lower expecations, but I'm very happy with this pairing. The extra airiness that I heard through the Sundara adds to HD6XX's sound stage, and it sounds like the presence and treble is slightly more liquid and smooth. As a consequence of the bigger headstage, sounds aren't as congested and separation seems to have improved. This is a really superb musical pairing and probably the best pairing with the HD6XX I've heard to date.

Overall, I'd say the MCTH is not a particularly transparent amp. It softens and smooths, it's airy and expansive, but it's only ever slightly so. This is all completely subjective so YMMV.

*Addendum
*
FWIW I like my MCTH _a lot_ with the HD6XX, so much so that I've decided this is the end-game for me for this headphone's signal chain. To further qualify how much I like this combination: up to this point in time I've always viewed my HD6XX as the bottom performer in my collection in any snapshot of my collection history. I liked my E-MU Teak better, my HE4XX better, my Noble K10 better, my modded M1060 much better. Most cans I've owned at various points in time were able to give me an overall more enjoyable experience than the HD6XX. But I decided not to sell my HD6XX because it still, in the grand scheme of things, sounds very good, has very well known sound characteristics, and makes for a useful baseline to evaluate new purchases with.

With the MCTH, I'm sitting here thinking _maybe_ the MCTH+HD6XX sounds _maybe_ better than anything I've heard with my Sundara. And I think the Sundara sounds better than anything I mentioned above.


----------



## Bazirker

SonnyMarrow said:


> Did Massdrop stop selling this amp with the built in DAC? I swear I saw it a couple of days ago for $319.99 or something like that.



You're right, they did; they had it as a daily drop for awhile.  They must have just recently sold them all or something, because I don't see them anymore either.


----------



## GuddoggEli

It's there, but maybe hard to find.  I typed in the search box " massdrop x cth" and there it was for $249.  If you accidentally buy 2, my delivery address is...


----------



## Bazirker

GuddoggEli said:


> It's there, but maybe hard to find.  I typed in the search box " massdrop x cth" and there it was for $249.  If you accidentally buy 2, my delivery address is...



No, he means the CTH with an SDAC built-in.  It's a different item, and is no longer available: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-cth-sdac-dac-amp


----------



## fortunate son

runeight said:


> Looking at the plate curves I would guess that the amp cannot compensate for just how different the operating points are between the 6922 and 5670. Also the 5670 takes 350mA heater current instead of 330mA. The heater supply can absorb this difference.
> 
> You might be able to get this to work, but you might find that the front end cannot operate properly and possibly cause damage.
> 
> This is why we recommend only 6922 or equivalents.



Mr. Cavalli posted this response on the Massdrop website when asked if it was ok to enlarge the tube cavity on top of the amp and use the MCTH with a 6SN7 mounted to an adapter: "I'm afraid this won't work. For two reasons one bad and one might-not-sound-good.
1. The 6922 requires 330mA heater current. 6SN7 requires 600mA. The heater supply will start to max out at 400mA. 600mA will probably over-tax it and could cause failure.
2. Plate voltage on the triodes is a little over 100V. 6922 is very happy here, but this plate voltage is low for 6SN7 and probably puts it into a much less linear regime."


----------



## fortunate son

pichu said:


> Eager to hear how this amp compares to the Schiit Lyr 3



Saw this write-up on impressions of the Lyr 3 and the MCTH at the recent DC Area Head-Fi Meet.  See full report at: http://www.verumsonus.com/dc-area-head-fi-meet-impressions-4-7-2018/

_Schiit Lyr 3

I was very excited to try the Schiit Lyr 3.  I have previously owned the Lyr 2 headphone amplifier and have heard other tube hybrid models from Schiit like the Vali 2 and the Mjolnir 2.  With the Lyr 2, Vali 2, and Mjolnir 2 it was very clear to me in listening to each one that they come from the same family of amplifiers, all of them have consistent sonic qualities: some bloom, a focus on macrodynamic impact rather than microdynamic details, and warmer, fuller kind of sound signature.  The Lyr 3 shares nothing in common with these three previous hybrid designs. Sporting an all new topology, the Lyr 3 seems to be a much needed step in the right direction for my tastes. While much improved over the previous designs, the Lyr 3 did not seem free of its own sonic peculiarities. From the upper mids on up through the presence region and the treble, the Lyr 3 is fast, clear and dynamic.  It doesn’t get bogged down in fast passages, it presents an excellent instrumental timbre especially for horns and other brass instruments and tends to present the stage and image in a way coherent with the music. Where the Lyr 3 gets peculiar is the low end from the lower mids down. It seems to slow down there, not really getting smeared or lacking in clarity, but somehow note decay seems to ring out longer, unnaturally extended in a way that makes it seem like it’s somehow moving slower.  This wouldn’t normally be a big problem if the upper mids and treble didn’t have such a different character. The difference makes the amp come off a bit disjointed and awkward. I really enjoyed this amp overall and think it’s competitive for its performance in it’s price range, I’d like to try the DAC modules in this amp in the future to see how they perform.


Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid_

A Massdrop commercialization of an old Cavalli amp design, I was definitely interested in checking out the CTH with its low price since I’m usually at a loss for cheaper source recommendations.  I was quite pleased with the CTH overall. I felt it leaned a bit warm with a kind of fuller sound and had a hint of compression and haze. Generally I found this amplifier to be quite revealing of lower level microdynamic details, though they were presented a bit more flatly and softly than I’m used to, lacking their normal physicality and sharpness.  Tonality seemed even, and the amp seemed to communicate the details of the soundstage of each song rather than imposing its own sort of space within which to put the music. In the sub-$500 bracket, with a more coherent though less dynamic presentation than the Lyr 3, I believe this is the best performing tube hybrid design for the price and would recommend it without hesitation.


----------



## prestiggge

I have Meridian Explorer 2 DAC, Objective 2 Amp and K702 headphone. How about changing O2 with Cavalli Alex? I like treble and O2 has treble roll-of. When I listen K702 with ME2 I like treble but seperation is bad without amp.


----------



## jeffrt

fortunate son said:


> A few days ago I bought a Teddy Pardo 28V power supply  for my MCTH which is on its way to me from Israel. I used one of Pardo's 12V units with a dac I used to own and it really opened up the sound a lot, improved focus and a lot of other good stuff. In case you have ever used Naim gear, the Pardo brought about the kind of improvement you get when you upgrade from a Naim built-in power supply to the TOTL Naim outboard power supply. This is the Pardo unit I bought, except it will be a 28V 1.25 amp instead of the 24V 1 amp version that is shown in this link: https://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/generic/teddy24.html



So, unless I missed something in the above post, how did you get TeddyPardo to change the specs, from 24V/1amp, to the 28V/1.25 amps that the Cavalli needs?

I hate "wallwarts" with a minor passion, but spending $370 for a power supply for a $250 amp is ... thought provoking.


----------



## volly

junki said:


> Due to censorship, a small part of this review was excised. The full review is available here.
> 
> My preferences and equipment history are up-to-date on my Head-Fi profile.
> 
> ...



Cheers for the impressions @junki, totally agree with you on the synergy of the 6xx/650 and MCTH, my other amps never made my 650's dance this well. Before receiving the MCTH I read about the synergy between the MCTH and 6xx/650 but I didn't want to get on the hype just yet! After spending my last week with this combo I can wholeheartedly say "Yasssssss!!!"...this is a much made in heaven!


----------



## franz12

MTCH has been a beutiful pairing with ether c flow. 

I got hd600 and hooked it up. Has anyone tried this setup? There might be something wrong as I am pretty much unimpressed. I felt flat even after hours of listening to this setup.


----------



## volly

@franz12 - I got the HD600's too, had them before my 650's. Was an arranged marriage, met the lovely 650's not too long ago and it was the women I was meant to have married! Anyways, I'll chuck on the HD600's tonight and run it through the MCTH for a good listening session, might compare my findings later!

I would love to hear the Ether or the Aeon for that matter. One day.


----------



## jrhill

Hi "fortunate son"

On #512, you mentioned your purchase of the ReddyRegs 28V @ 1A5 - what is the advantage of using the higher voltage and current?


----------



## GanGreinke

jrhill said:


> Hi "fortunate son"
> 
> On #512, you mentioned your purchase of the ReddyRegs 28V @ 1A5 - what is the advantage of using the higher voltage and current?



The MCTH requires a power supply that is able to supply 28V and 1.25A. Your power supply voltage has to match the voltage requirement of the amplifier (has to be the same; otherwise you'll damage the amp). The power supply also has to be able to supply the voltage at a minimum. You can use a power supply that can supply a greater current, but the amp will only draw the amount of current it needs.


----------



## jrhill

My apologies, I got that wrong -  so I'm off to build a 28volt/1.5A linear supply from a spare Sigma 11 board I have here and see what changes in the sound of the amp - it'll be interesting ....

The amp has done about 1000hrs now and the sound has finally settled down - the source signal is from the SOtM server (AMB Sigma 11 supply) to the Ayre QB-9dsd dac ('Curious Cable' prototype Interconnects and 'MSA' power cable) and feeding the modded Massdrop HE-4xxs 'phones (more open rear grill, p.watson cable) - a rather pleasant sound, not quite the same as the sound of the Liquid Carbon or the Passlabs diy HPA-1, but very okay indeed for the price


----------



## Stabby (Apr 16, 2018)

I just ordered this amp. How can the sound signature be described through a slightly bright DAC (Topping D30) and HD650? Should I except slightly less warmth and slightly more treble? I'm a bit treble sensitive which is why I bought the HD650 in the first place, so I hope I don't end up disappointed.


----------



## Bazirker (Apr 16, 2018)

Stabby said:


> I just ordered this amp. How can the sound signature be described through a slightly bright DAC (Topping D30) and HD650? Should I except slightly less warmth and slightly more treble? I'm a bit treble sensitive which is why I bought the HD650 in the first place, so I hope I don't end up disappointed.



I haven't heard the D30 so I'm not sure I can comment as to how that component of the chain will impact the overall sound, however I do have an HD 6XX and a CTH fed through a Mimby.  I prefer warmth as I am also somewhat treble sensitive, and I have never had an issue with the highs through my rig.  I find that the treble is present, clean, and well defined, however sibilance is quite rare.  I would not describe the treble as rolled off, but it is smother than some might prefer (I obviously do not count myself among those however.) 

My opinion is that this is an excellent amp for $250, and pairs well with the HD 650/6XX in part because they share a similar approach to smooth and non-fatiguing yet well articulated and musical treble.  As always, you can sell it if you don't like it, so open the box with care!


----------



## Stabby

Bazirker said:


> I haven't heard the D30 so I'm not sure I can comment as to how that component of the chain will impact the overall sound, however I do have an HD 6XX and a CTH fed through a Mimby.  I prefer warmth as I am also somewhat treble sensitive, and I have never had an issue with the highs through my rig.  I find that the treble is present, clean, and well defined, however sibilance is quite rare.  I would not describe the treble as rolled off, but it is smother than some might prefer (I obviously do not count myself among those however.)
> 
> My opinion is that this is an excellent amp for $250, and pairs well with the HD 650/6XX in part because they share a similar approach to smooth and non-fatiguing yet well articulated and musical treble.



Thanks, feeling more confident now. Hopefully my CTH arrives in less than a month...


----------



## Bazirker

Stabby said:


> Thanks, feeling more confident now. Hopefully my CTH arrives in less than a month...



Looking forward to your observations when it arrives.  I will caution you regarding judgments of the CTH performance out of the box, as I liked it but found it refined significantly after a week of mixed usage of burning in the tube and solid state components.  The general character of the sound was there brand new but imaging and fine details improved quite a lot between 50 and 100 hours of play time.


----------



## UNOE (Apr 16, 2018)

Yeah you can't judge this amp out of box.  I see people selling this only owning it a week.  I never owned a amp that changed that much.  Even Jude mentioned this in the review.  I did tube burn in on Thursday night and it was much better just from that alone.  I left it playing all weekend and its quite good now.  First few hours its harsh and veiled with elevation to different regions of the sound.  After 14 hour tube burn in.  It was very good fun sound.  I like this sound it had slight microphonics which I like reminded me of a old stereo my friends dad had in the 80s, but I would not have wanted to keep that sound.  After about 110 hours now microphonics are completely gone.  Guitar solos so rich its much funner sound than I expected.  Now I'm  really interested in tube rolling.

Edit : also I paired it with Topping D50 and its good with the different filter offered.  Pairing the CTH with Mojo was not preferred.


----------



## someyoungguy

I just stumbled on this at massdrop and have been reading over this thread.

I got the HD6XXs from massdrop, arrived about a month ago. I love the sound (paired with a Plenue M at least), but even though they’re a well-loved pair amongst head-fiers I had been thinking about selling them - simply because my other headphones are all easy to drive. Keeping them just complicates my set-up, requiring an amp, as I’ve got a Plenue R on the way and will probably sell the Plenue M once it arrives. The R won’t be able to drive the HD6XXs, so I was thinking for simplicity I’d just stick to easy-to-drive headphones, such as getting some HE400s’ as an open back option for listening at home.

But now after seeing this, and the price on massdrop, definitely having second thoughts about that plan. I’d be feeding the amp with the audio out of a Plenue R, or Cambridge Audio Dacmagic XS. Buying this amp would be cheaper than getting a pair of HE400s! By all accounts on here, I’m not likely to regret it either.


----------



## Stabby

UNOE said:


> Edit : also I paired it with Topping D50 and its good with the different filter offered.  Pairing the CTH with Mojo was not preferred.



How does it sound with the D50 without any of the filters? How is the treble? As far as I know D30 sounds the same but doesn't have those filters. Should give me a good idea of what to expect.


----------



## UNOE

Stabby said:


> How does it sound with the D50 without any of the filters? How is the treble? As far as I know D30 sounds the same but doesn't have those filters. Should give me a good idea of what to expect.


The pairing is fine you have to choice a filter I'm side d30 has a filter enabled by default.  I have only compared it to mojo and d50 pairs better on this amp.  D50 is really good though.  I don't think D30 will come close.  I do prefer the rolled off filters.
I belive this amp will pair well with sabre dacs in general though.


----------



## Stabby

Guess I'll just wait and see. My CTH already shipped after ordering yesterday. Could still take a month to arrive though. After import fees it will have cost me $375/€300. Hopefully it's worth it.


----------



## franz12

I have two MCTHs in my hand, one is used and the other one is new. After going back and forth between them, I can say that burn-in is real. Before burn-in, bass bloats and is muddy. Also there are some hard edges from time to time. After long hours, bass is deeper, well controlled, and tighter. Mid to treble sounds more transparent, and cleaner. Soundstage opens up. It pairs really well with ether c flow.


----------



## someyoungguy

Put an order in last night, already shipped this morning  massdrop are nailing it. Looking forward to hearing this.


----------



## jeffrt (Apr 20, 2018)

I have about 5 days worth of break-in on the unit. So far, with the stock EH 6922s, nice but boring. Yesterday I put in an Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 and the darned thing finally came to life. Now it has a soul and  makes music, with both HD580 Jubilees and a Hifiman HE400i.

Wonder what it will do with a Siemens CCA???


----------



## Stabby

jeffrt said:


> I have about 5 days worth of break-in on the unit. So far, with the stock JJ6922, nice but boring. Yesterday I put in an Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 and the darned thing finally came to life. Now it has a soul and  makes music, with both HD580 Jubilees and a Hifiman HE400i.
> 
> Wonder what it will do with a Siemens CCA???



Boring as in neutral?


----------



## jeffrt

Stabby said:


> Boring as in neutral?



Boring as lifeless, dead. I didn't care whether I listened to it or not. It was sound, not music. I would never consider this as neutral. It was as if I had connected a cheap, badly designed interconnect that muted the dynamics.


----------



## UNOE

delete


----------



## Stabby

Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.



jeffrt said:


> Boring as lifeless, dead. I didn't care whether I listened to it or not. It was sound, not music. I would never consider this as neutral. It was as if I had connected a cheap, badly designed interconnect that muted the dynamics.



Perhaps the stock tube needs more burn-in? Some people have mentioned it will need 100-200 hours.


----------



## jeffrt

Stabby said:


> Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.
> 
> 
> Perhaps the stock tube needs more burn-in? Some people have mentioned it will need 100-200 hours.





Stabby said:


> Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the stock tube needs more burn-in? Some people have mentioned it will need 100-200 hours.



No, I do not believe it needs that much. I have a pair that I have used on a pair of hybrid monoblocks that take 6922s as input drivers. They work much better in that amp than they do in the Cavalli, but not as good as some other NOS tubes. I put about 50+ hours on the JJ 6922 that came with the unit before I tried this Bugle Boy, which I've had for years.


----------



## Mud_Pum

I've got to say, if the upgrade bug didnt bite me so hard I would have spent much more time with my beloved CTH.  I think I can see myself picking up the Plat in the future though.  Big fan of Cavalli.


----------



## Phantaminum

Stabby said:


> Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the stock tube needs more burn-in? Some people have mentioned it will need 100-200 hours.



Just out of experience with Russian tubes, most, if not all need around 100 hours of burn in (some even more) to get them to settle. From the 6N23Ps to the 6n3ps it takes a bit of time and will vary obviously per tube. Once a good Russian tube settles in it sounds fantastic like the EH 6922s.

They picked out a great tube that synergizes really well with the HD650s/HD6XX.


----------



## volly (Apr 19, 2018)

Stabby said:


> Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.



I was using some Havi B3 pro's with the MCTH the other day, sounded good but they are 32ohm, was a bit of noise floor. I'll grab my wife's momentum's (over-ear) and give 'em a try. Let ya know how it goes!

Back: Sounds fantastic, haven't listened to the Momentum in a long while, the dynamics of this amp is simple eye-popping. The momentum's just sung!


----------



## CEE TEE

jeffrt said:


> I have about 5 days worth of break-in on the unit. So far, with the stock JJ6922,



Hey jeffrt,
Did you get a JJ tube with your amp?
Should have been an Electro Harmonix from Russia in a black and white box...

We sent out JJ tubes when we tested amp prototypes in the field and the feedback on the JJ tubes was that the EH sounded better.


----------



## jrhill

While waiting for the S11 reg to arrive, I hitched up my lab supply instead of the provided 'wall-wart' supply and the difference is enormous, very surprising indeed - just better all round for me - not quite so rounded and soft - bigger, slightly brighter sound altogether and the biggest surprise is how more transparent it seems - it'll be interesting with a 'proper' linear supply. 

Incidently, it's drawing a total 370mA @ 28.0v  - amp has now done about 6 weeks continuously (1,000hrs).  Maybe time to try a few different tubes, more out of curiosity.

Who would have thought the power supply could have this amount of influence on the sound,


----------



## jeffrt

CEE TEE said:


> Hey jeffrt,
> Did you get a JJ tube with your amp?
> Should have been an Electro Harmonix from Russia in a black and white box...
> 
> We sent out JJ tubes when we tested amp prototypes in the field and the feedback on the JJ tubes was that the EH sounded better.



Yes, Sorry, my mistake. Those new Russian tubes sort of blend together in my mind, except for the Tung-Sols. I did get an EH tube and have had a pair for my monoblocks that sounded fine.


----------



## Anaz (Apr 20, 2018)

Stabby said:


> Has anyone tried the CTH with low impedance (16 ohm or less) headphones? Do they go well together? I would use it mostly with my HD650 but I ordered a Sennheiser Urbanite, mainly for portable use and hiphop, so I would occasionally like to use them with the CTH.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the stock tube needs more burn-in? Some people have mentioned it will need 100-200 hours.



I tried a pair of IEMs (16 ohm,108 dB sensitivity) on a CTH+SDAC and they sounded great. However, there was barely enough movement in the volume pot for accurate volume control before the sound got too loud so I wouldn’t recommend the CTH with highly sensitive phones/IEMs. Noise floor is *excellent* (almost silent at *full* volume - so if you’re hearing noise, it’s probably your dac/source).


----------



## Tuneslover

I would be interested in hearing impressions how this amp compares with the Project Ember.


----------



## CEE TEE

jeffrt said:


> Yes, Sorry, my mistake. Those new Russian tubes sort of blend together in my mind, except for the Tung-Sols. I did get an EH tube and have had a pair for my monoblocks that sounded fine.



Ah, great...no worries!  Just making sure you got the right tube.


----------



## lugnut

Bazirker said:


> My opinion is that this is an excellent amp for $250, and pairs well with the HD 650/6XX in part because they share a similar approach to smooth and non-fatiguing yet well articulated and musical treble.


I see you have a pair of Beyer DT990, how do they sound with the MCTH vs the HD6XXX ? I ask because I have a pair of Beyer Amiron Home that has such fantastic synergy with MCTH that I will be using the two together from now on. I find the Amiron and the MCTH just gels so well together and more so than the MCTH & HD6XXX.
What is your findings ?


----------



## Bazirker

lugnut said:


> I see you have a pair of Beyer DT990, how do they sound with the MCTH vs the HD6XXX ? I ask because I have a pair of Beyer Amiron Home that has such fantastic synergy with MCTH that I will be using the two together from now on. I find the Amiron and the MCTH just gels so well together and more so than the MCTH & HD6XXX.
> What is your findings ?



Sadly, I sold my DT990's a few years ago.  They were great phones and I miss them.  If I ever got a shot at pairing them up with this amp, I'll letcha know!


----------



## Stabby (Apr 22, 2018)

My CTH is already in Germany after 4 days so I should be getting it earlier than I anticipated!

One thing I'm a little worried about is that the HD650 sounds only slightly too thin on my Fiio A5 with jazz. Bass is great but lower octaves on piano (left hand chords) can sound a bit subdued. Bass boost on (+5dB) is too much and doesn't do much for those lower piano octaves. I wonder how the CTH will compare.

In case I want a slightly warmer tube: which ones are recommended non-used for less than $50?


----------



## joeike

CEE TEE said:


> Hey jeffrt,
> Did you get a JJ tube with your amp?
> Should have been an Electro Harmonix from Russia in a black and white box...
> 
> We sent out JJ tubes when we tested amp prototypes in the field and the feedback on the JJ tubes was that the EH sounded better.


Hi CEE TEE just got my MCTH  Can I break it in with my Fostex TXO massdrops plugged in? They need some burn in time too so I thought 2 birds one stone?


----------



## jeffrt

Stabby said:


> My CTH is already in Germany after 4 days so I should be getting it earlier than I anticipated!
> 
> One thing I'm a little worried about is that the HD650 sounds only slightly too thin on my Fiio A5 with jazz. Bass is great but lower octaves on piano (left hand chords) can sound a bit subdued. Bass boost on (+5dB) is too much and doesn't do much for those lower piano octaves. I wonder how the CTH will compare.
> 
> In case I want a slightly warmer tube: which ones are recommended non-used for less than $50?



I can honestly say I have never heard anyone say that the HD650s were "too thin". If they didn't love them, they said they were on the warmer and woollier side of neutral. I have no idea what the Fiio A5 is, but have you heard them with any other headphone amp? If so, did they sound thin with that one too?


----------



## Zachik

joeike said:


> Hi CEE TEE just got my MCTH  Can I break it in with my Fostex TXO massdrops plugged in? They need some burn in time too so I thought 2 birds one stone?


I am not @CEE TEE  but I can tell you: sure! No reason to burn-in the amp with nothing connected to it.
I have done exactly that! (with a different headphone that needed burn-in)


----------



## Stabby

jeffrt said:


> I can honestly say I have never heard anyone say that the HD650s were "too thin". If they didn't love them, they said they were on the warmer and woollier side of neutral. I have no idea what the Fiio A5 is, but have you heard them with any other headphone amp? If so, did they sound thin with that one too?



I think it's because I'm used to listening on moderate volume. It sounds better when I turn the volume up.


----------



## jeffrt

Zachik said:


> I am not @CEE TEE  but I can tell you: sure! No reason to burn-in the amp with nothing connected to it.
> I have done exactly that! (with a different headphone that needed burn-in)



Not sure about your Cavalli, but the instructions I got with mine  say, 
"_If you do employ break-in, we recommend about 100 hours playing in continuous music mode WITH NO HEADPHONES and the volume set to about 10 o'clock. ..After break-in period, the amp should only need 10 minutes to stabilize operation. After about 100 hours. it is not recommended to keep the amplifier on constantly. _"
Of course, if you have new headphones that need to be broken in, why not just attach them and leave your music player on repeat.


----------



## joeike

Zachik said:


> I am not @CEE TEE  but I can tell you: sure! No reason to burn-in the amp with nothing connected to it.
> I have done exactly that! (with a different headphone that needed burn-in)


That's what I thought Thanks


----------



## joeike

jeffrt said:


> Not sure about your Cavalli, but the instructions I got with mine  say,
> "_If you do employ break-in, we recommend about 100 hours playing in continuous music mode WITH NO HEADPHONES and the volume set to about 10 o'clock. ..After break-in period, the amp should only need 10 minutes to stabilize operation. After about 100 hours. it is not recommended to keep the amplifier on constantly. _"
> Of course, if you have new headphones that need to be broken in, why not just attach them and leave your music player on repeat.


Thanks I read that too!


----------



## UNOE

If the follow the instructions it will burn in quicker cause of the higher 10 o'clock volume will burn the inpurities in the tube faster.  You could do either but the Headphone connected techically should be slower.  I did both.  I also did a hour at 2 o'clock with no headphone.  16 hours at 10 oclock.  And few nights with headphone connected.  I would recommend at least a few hours at higher operational output closer to 10 to 12 with no headphone and with music playing.


----------



## joeike

UNOE said:


> If the follow the instructions it will burn in quicker cause of the higher 10 o'clock volume will burn the inpurities in the tube faster.  You could do either but the Headphone connected techically should be slower.  I did both.  I also did a hour at 2 o'clock with no headphone.  16 hours at 10 oclock.  And few nights with headphone connected.  I would recommend at least a few hours at higher operational output closer to 10 to 12 with no headphone and with music playing.


That sounds like some really good advice BTW did the sound change anything significantly after your burn in?


----------



## jeffrt

UNOE said:


> If the follow the instructions it will burn in quicker cause of the higher 10 o'clock volume will burn the inpurities in the tube faster.  You could do either but the Headphone connected techically should be slower.  I did both.  I also did a hour at 2 o'clock with no headphone.  16 hours at 10 oclock.  And few nights with headphone connected.  I would recommend at least a few hours at higher operational output closer to 10 to 12 with no headphone and with music playing.



Interesting experiment. Thank you.

Currently doing a "burn" of both amp and phones and new cable, all at the same time.  Don't want to put the volume control higher than I can listen to safely, for fear of harming the headphone drivers. I prefer to let it go longer at safe levels, rather than suffer potential harm for the sake of lessened times.


----------



## jeffrt (Apr 22, 2018)

joeike said:


> That sounds like some really good advice BTW did the sound change anything significantly after your burn in?



I have the amp for about 10 days now and have 100-125 hours on it. While I cannot wait to try some more different tubes, I think it is close to the point where there will be either no more change physically (or mechanically with the hardware, if you wish)  or in my personal listening attitude/experience. I believe I am at the point where changes will be because of the music player used as input, the interconnect between them or the tube being used.

As I said previously, I find the Amperex 6DJ8 (Bugle Boy) to be superior with the sound I like, to the stock EH 6922. I have yet to_ test_ (edited) the difference(s) with some other tubes I have (Siemens CCA, Amperex 6922, Brimar Ecc88, Voskhod Pocket 6N23P)


----------



## joeike

jeffrt said:


> I have the amp for about 10 days now and have 100-125 hours on it. While I cannot wait to try some more different tubes, I think it is close to the point where there will be either no more change physically (or mechanically with the hardware, if you wish)  or in my personal listening attitude/experience. I believe I am at the point where changes will be because of the music player used as input, the interconnect between them or the tube being used.
> 
> As I said previously, I find the Amperex 6DJ8 (Bugle Boy) to be superior with the sound I like, to the stock EH 6922. I have yet to see/hear the difference(s) with some other tubes I have (Siemens CCA, Amperex 6922, Brimar Ecc88, Voskhod Pocket 6N23P)


Great input & feedback thanks!! I'll try eBay to try some tube rolling myself!


----------



## Zachik

jeffrt said:


> Not sure about your Cavalli, but the instructions I got with mine  say,
> "_If you do employ break-in, we recommend about 100 hours playing in continuous music mode WITH NO HEADPHONES and the volume set to about 10 o'clock. ..After break-in period, the amp should only need 10 minutes to stabilize operation. After about 100 hours. it is not recommended to keep the amplifier on constantly. _"
> Of course, if you have new headphones that need to be broken in, why not just attach them and leave your music player on repeat.


I did have this note attached, too. Since the NO HEADPHONES made no sense - I just ignored it... figured no harm doing 2 burn-ins at the same time... 
That was also based on feedback from others on OTHER tube amps, where doing so WITH headphones supposedly pose no danger / problem.



UNOE said:


> If the follow the instructions it will burn in quicker cause of the higher 10 o'clock volume will burn the inpurities in the tube faster.  You could do either but the Headphone connected techically should be slower.  I did both.  I also did a hour at 2 o'clock with no headphone.  16 hours at 10 oclock.  And few nights with headphone connected.  I would recommend at least a few hours at higher operational output closer to 10 to 12 with no headphone and with music playing.


The 10 o'clock was not an issue - the headphones I burned in needed almost 11 o'clock before it started sounding too loud for me. So I figured if the only reason for NO HEADPHONES was volume-too-high, then it was a non-issue for MY headphones (HD600, BTW).


----------



## franz12

Bazirker said:


> Odd.  I have written earlier in this thread about my love of the volume pot on this amp, how smooth it is, and the lack of audible noise when changing volume.  You have a peculiar problem indeed.



It turns out that this unit was faulty and it was idiosyncratic. Massdrop was very responsive and they immediately replaced my unit. Their customer service is top notch.
After comparing two units, it seems to me that this issue has gone. But to make sure, I will burn in it for hours.


----------



## jeffrt

Zachik said:


> I did have this note attached, too. Since the NO HEADPHONES made no sense - I just ignored it... figured no harm doing 2 burn-ins at the same time...
> That was also based on feedback from others on OTHER tube amps, where doing so WITH headphones supposedly pose no danger / problem.
> 
> 
> The 10 o'clock was not an issue - the headphones I burned in needed almost 11 o'clock before it started sounding too loud for me. So I figured if the only reason for NO HEADPHONES was volume-too-high, then it was a non-issue for MY headphones (HD600, BTW).



Unless the manufacturer's instructions prove to be wrong, I tend to follow them, as who should know better.

As for the volume, I'd assume there'd be little difference with 10 o'clock vs 11 o'clock IF headphones were attached. Since they recommend no headphones, wouldn't you think that 10 o'clock was the safest condition?


----------



## UNOE

jeffrt said:


> Interesting experiment. Thank you.
> 
> Currently doing a "burn" of both amp and phones and new cable, all at the same time.  Don't want to put the volume control higher than I can listen to safely, for fear of harming the headphone drivers. I prefer to let it go longer at safe levels, rather than suffer potential harm for the sake of lessened times.


I was saying high volume without headphone connected (like the instructions mention).  I would never use anything that high with my low impedance cans, I have nothing over 30 ohms. (I imagine HD 650 are at 10 o' clock at normal listening with this amp).  Most the break is with the tube.  I higher temperature on the tube even for short time should be faster.



joeike said:


> That sounds like some really good advice BTW did the


 I listened to the first day with the amp after about 2 hours break in for about 4 hours.  Then broke it in with 16 hours with no headphone overnight next day was quite a bit better.  I was thinking I would have to sell it first day.  I never heard any amp that changed that much.  Jude review he mentions break in too.

I PM someone last week that had the amp listed for sale.  The description mentioned 5 hours of use.  On my PM I said why not let it break in before selling it.  He wrote back to thank me he was so pleased of the difference.


----------



## runeight

Hey folks, I posted my experiences with burn quite a while back. I have serial #1, so same production piece as what you all have.

1. Sounds decent out of the box, but not spectacular.
2. Begins to lose its new amp sound about 25 hours.
3. Cleans up pretty well at 50-100 hours and takes on its real character.
4. Slowly changes between 100-200 hours, but not a lot, assuming you've left the same tube in all this time.

I don't think it's really necessary to do a prolonged burn in session. In my case I just let it run for a day and then let it burn in while I listened to music. It was an interesting process to hear the changes. 

When I was making the bigger amps, nothing was shipped until at least 50 hours burn in at the assembly shop. For the electrostatic amps, we waited 100 hours.


----------



## Stabby (Apr 22, 2018)

Another question for the HD650 owners: does the CTH completely get rid of the veil?



runeight said:


> Hey folks, I posted my experiences with burn quite a while back. I have serial #1, so same production piece as what you all have.
> 
> 1. Sounds decent out of the box, but not spectacular.
> 2. Begins to lose its new amp sound about 25 hours.
> ...



This makes me wonder how hard it must be to design if it takes 100 hours before you can judge the results.



volly said:


> I was using some Havi B3 pro's with the MCTH the other day, sounded good but they are 32ohm, was a bit of noise floor. I'll grab my wife's momentum's (over-ear) and give 'em a try. Let ya know how it goes!
> 
> Back: Sounds fantastic, haven't listened to the Momentum in a long while, the dynamics of this amp is simple eye-popping. The momentum's just sung!



Did you test the Momentum 2.0 over ears? Since you also have the HD650, would you mind if I ask how it compares to the Momentum in sound signature, both in general and on the CTH? Sorry if this is too off-topic, but I haven't been able to find out by asking in the relevant threads.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Hey folks, I posted my experiences with burn quite a while back. I have serial #1, so same production piece as what you all have.
> 
> 1. Sounds decent out of the box, but not spectacular.
> 2. Begins to lose its new amp sound about 25 hours.
> ...


Alex - can you please shed some light on burn-in with vs. without headphones connected?
I personally used HD600 burning in at the same time, volume at approx. 10 o'clock (as recommended)...


----------



## Bazirker

franz12 said:


> It turns out that this unit was faulty and it was idiosyncratic. Massdrop was very responsive and they immediately replaced my unit. Their customer service is top notch.
> After comparing two units, it seems to me that this issue has gone. But to make sure, I will burn in it for hours.



Glad to hear you got it worked out.  My volume pot continues to be squeaky clean.



Stabby said:


> Another question for the HD650 owners: does the CTH completely get rid of the veil?
> 
> This makes me wonder how hard it must be to design if it takes 100 hours before you can judge the results.



Some HD 650 owners don't believe there is a veil in the first place      FWIW I don't hear a veil, but YMMV.

Also, interesting question about the design!  I wonder how much of it has to do with the tube?


----------



## ab_ba

It's great to see this is dropping again. For $250, I can highly recommend it. It's a pretty no-frills device - they clearly put the effort into the sound quality. I found the sound to be clear, detailed, and smooth. There is good texture to sustained notes. Instrument separation is good. Background is very black - palpable silence between notes and tracks. Sound is what you might expect from a much more expensive amp. (I'm listening with Focal Utopias, and a Violectric V800 DAC.) Drawbacks? At very low volumes, the channel balance is poor. At high volumes, things lose control, and the sound gets a little shrieky. The looks and build quality are not stunning, but at this price-point, you're not looking for visual aesthetics. Overall, I'd say this is a teriffic second amp, like for work, or for somebody who wants a great budget-conscious rig.

Also, the CTH has made me a "believer" in burn-in. it really sounded bad straight out of the box, but after a week of playing continually (volume knob set to ten o'clock, no headphones connected) the sound became open, full, and natural.


----------



## UNOE

runeight said:


> Hey folks, I posted my experiences with burn quite a while back. I have serial #1, so same production piece as what you all have.
> 
> 1. Sounds decent out of the box, but not spectacular.
> 2. Begins to lose its new amp sound about 25 hours.
> ...


I was already sespecting part of the reason there so much difference in break in for this amp was it's not ran before it ships like alot of amps from other manufactures that run break in before shipping.


----------



## Stabby

Bazirker said:


> ad to hear you got it worked out.  My volume pot continues to be squeaky clean.
> Some HD 650 owners don't believe there is a veil in the first place      FWIW I don't hear a veil, but YMMV.



It's subtle. I mostly notice the veil in live recordings and classical. There's a little something missing to make me feel like I'm there.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Alex - can you please shed some light on burn-in with vs. without headphones connected?
> I personally used HD600 burning in at the same time, volume at approx. 10 o'clock (as recommended)...



It has a lot to do with the particular topology of the amp. In this case a capacitor coupled tube hybrid with a tube front end and a solid state power buffer for the output.

When you are playing music though the amp, regardless of headphones or no headphones, the tube stage is exercised exactly the same because it is not connected to the output and is always looking at a very high impedance load. And the tube is what really needs the first 50 or so hours of burn in. Thus, either type of burn in does the job for the tube no matter how long you burn in so long as you are feeding signal into the amp.

So, music or not, the first 50 hours (or any number of hours) burn the tube in the same.

The SS buffer needs some burn in too and this happens better, MHO, when there is a load at the output because this causes the amp to actually deliver current from the output devices. My experiences are that there is less of an effect of SS burn in, but it is still easily noticeable, especially in a pure SS amp where the tube burn in does not swamp the SS burn in.

Because of the hybrid topology, there are two burn-ins taking place, one more noticeable than the other. This is why, I believe, you all are hearing lots of changes in the first 10-50 hours (the tube) and slower changes after that as both the tube and SS settle in further.

Beyond 100 hours, neither element of the amp changes a whole lot, but some, hence the more gradual change in the sound until it really doesn't change again (in a normal aging process) until the tube begins to fail.

In case of my larger amps, the Liquid Glass (capacitor coupled tube hybrid) and the Liquid Gold (pure SS) did indeed have different burn in characteristics though they both settled in somewhere between 100 and 200 hours (at least for me).


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> It has a lot to do with the particular topology of the amp. In this case a capacitor coupled tube hybrid with a tube front end and a solid state power buffer for the output.
> 
> When you are playing music though the amp, regardless of headphones or no headphones, the tube stage is exercised exactly the same because it is not connected to the output and is always looking at a very high impedance load. And the tube is what really needs the first 50 or so hours of burn in. Thus, either type of burn in does the job for the tube no matter how long you burn in so long as you are feeding signal into the amp.
> 
> ...


Alex - thanks for the VERY elaborate and educational explanation!
So... when you write that burn in for the SS part works better when there is load at the output - does that happen WITH or WITHOUT headphones connected to the amp?
If the load is there WITH headphones - doesn't it contradict the recommendation (included in the box) to burn in without headphones?!


----------



## runeight

The headphones are the load. The SS burns in better with headphones, but.....

Since the SS burn in is not as significant as the tube, the SS will burn in naturally as you listen after the first 50 or so hours (and the SS will burn in before that too, the load just helps it along a bit). Hence, MHO, no real need to have headphones for a forced burn in.

I wrote that part of the manual and this assumes that you are not doing a marathon burn in session. I've mentioned before that I don't think this is necessary. The main thing is to clean up the tube and the rest will naturally follow. Plus, I kind of like to hear the burn in process so my preference is to get past the early stage and the listen in to hear what's happening.


----------



## jrhill

Perhaps Alex, you could design a better power supply (or a non-switch-mode unit) for this amp that Massdrop could issue as an aftermarket addition for the different world's mains power voltages- the 'wall-wart' unit that comes with the amp does work okay, sure, but a better supply brings out a far better performance that far exceeds the humble price, even with the issued AH 6922 tube

Congratulations on another very successful headamp design


----------



## Zachik

jrhill said:


> Perhaps Alex, you could design a better power supply (or a non-switch-mode unit) for this amp that Massdrop could issue as an aftermarket addition for the different world's mains power voltages- the 'wall-wart' unit that comes with the amp does work okay, sure, but a better supply brings out a far better performance that far exceeds the humble price, even with the issued AH 6922 tube
> 
> Congratulations on another very successful headamp design


Great idea. And I am not just saying that because I had the same exact idea myself 
In fact, I have already suggested to @CEE TEE to come up with exactly such linear power supply (LPS) unit, hopefully in the same form factor as the LCX / CTH, so we could stack them together!!!


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

Stabby said:


> Another question for the HD650 owners: does the CTH completely get rid of the veil?


6XX owner but same difference. Short answer: no. They're still very dark & the highs are accentuated a bit more but this won't "fix" that. Instead of trying to find an amp to do that I'm just getting a ZMF Auteur to replace them.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Great idea. And I am not just saying that because I had the same exact idea myself
> In fact, I have already suggested to @CEE TEE to come up with exactly such linear power supply (LPS) unit, hopefully in the same form factor as the LCX / CTH, so we could stack them together!!!



I guess I'd better have a chat with CEE TEE.


----------



## jrhill

Thanks Zachik, it looks we're still 'on our own' with improving the power supply - I'm currently using a lab supply with an electro cap on the output but have a Sigma11 reg supply in the works, rather than another TeddyRegs - still playing around with different electros as they directly affect the sound - changed-up to the 'rocket' 6H23 tube for a far more open detailed sound  

Curiously, I wasn't totally happy with the LM317 or the lt3045, etc chip supply for the Passlabs HP-1 power supply, even with an added Cap multiplier filter, so got a couple of the TeddyRegs for it, then ended up with a Sigma 22 supply (a Ki Tan design from AMB Laboratories) and quite impressed with this change in the sound - so far, I've not had a great success with switchmode supplies but hopefully, this will change in the future 

All the best with the CeeTee power supply design  project, especially if you can find a matching case size - please, let me know if it goes ahead   -   ...   James

Hi, thanks for your reply Alex - yes, quite the surprise in the improvement in the quality with your design - I haven't got around to opening up the Liquid Carbon here but perhaps this could also benefit from a look at the supply too? 

  If possible, is there a better power connector than that awful 2.1mm plug - maybe something like the plug that's common to the high-performance Li-Ion batteries used by the 'toy' electric cars or something similar


----------



## spyder1 (Apr 23, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Great idea. And I am not just saying that because I had the same exact idea myself
> In fact, I have already suggested to @CEE TEE to come up with exactly such linear power supply (LPS) unit, hopefully in the same form factor as the LCX / CTH, so we could stack them together!!!



CEE_TEE, runeight

A LPS that can power 2 components would be optimal.


----------



## Zachik

spyder1 said:


> CEE_TEE, runeight
> 
> A LPS that can power 2 components, HPA, and Grace SDAC would be optimal.


...or LPS that works with both CTH and LCX (I got both amp...)  
Even better yet - something like the Wyred 4 Sound PS-1 (that powers up to 4 different devices)... see:
https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply

Could be either in a box same form factor as LCX / CTH, or double height (same width and depth).


----------



## Bazirker

Zachik said:


> ...or LPS that works with both CTH and LCX (I got both amp...)
> Even better yet - something like the Wyred 4 Sound PS-1 (that powers up to 4 different devices)... see:
> https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply
> 
> Could be either in a box same form factor as LCX / CTH, or double height (same width and depth).



Since you have both amplifiers, I would be very curious to hear your impressions!


----------



## Zachik

Bazirker said:


> Since you have both amplifiers, I would be very curious to hear your impressions!


Never really A/B them, and won't have time to do so until the weekend. Sorry.


----------



## joeike

I'm breaking mine in with a set of planar magnetic by fostex the T-XO massdrop Edition anybody else try the other t50rps version 1 or 2 or modded like to know your opinion thanks.


----------



## volly

@joeike - The T50rp's sounds nice with this amp, I prefer a solid-state amp for more control over the T50's but the added warmth through the mid range and solid low's with those easy high's just makes musica! 

Mind you I had to mod my T-X0's as I couldn't handle the original tuning any longer, too dark but not in a fun way. Do the mods if you feel the same way, T50's can sing when modded!


----------



## runeight

Just FYI for everyone. The CTH is a hybrid tube/SS amp. This means that while the input stage is tube, the output stage is a unity gain solid state buffer, which is what is actually controlling the headphones.


----------



## joeike

volly said:


> @joeike - The T50rp's sounds nice with this amp, I prefer a solid-state amp for more control over the T50's but the added warmth through the mid range and solid low's with those easy high's just makes musica!
> 
> Mind you I had to mod my T-X0's as I couldn't handle the original tuning any longer, too dark but not in a fun way. Do the mods if you feel the same way, T50's can sing when modded!


I know what you mean about the txos hoping the brake in sound will change a little bit but I did change the pads to an angled leather and the cord to a Zmoda seemed to help some but curious to know what mods you did to yours thanks.


----------



## volly

I'd recommend opening up the cups and taping up 3/4 of the port/vent at the back of the cup which will increase the low's a little and place a few cotton balls (tease them out a bit) inside the cup. Close em back up and have a listen, you should get more mid range presence as well as more high's (probably more than you're use too but it's a start!). The angled pads should give you a slight increase in image and perhaps sound stage. I just stuck to the stock cable as I don't mind it. My next mods will be to dampen the baffle and tweak the bass more and control the high's, I want sparkle without the searing heat. I honestly don't think they will change much after burn-in as I've put up with them for months, I was so dismayed with them that I was about to put them up for sale but I've modded these before and they respond so well to mods so I kept them and bit the bullet and opened them up. Glad I did because these puppies can sing!


----------



## joeike

volly said:


> I'd recommend opening up the cups and taping up 3/4 of the port/vent at the back of the cup which will increase the low's a little and place a few cotton balls (tease them out a bit) inside the cup. Close em back up and have a listen, you should get more mid range presence as well as more high's (probably more than you're use too but it's a start!). The angled pads should give you a slight increase in image and perhaps sound stage. I just stuck to the stock cable as I don't mind it. My next mods will be to dampen the baffle and tweak the bass more and control the high's, I want sparkle without the searing heat. I honestly don't think they will change much after burn-in as I've put up with them for months, I was so dismayed with them that I was about to put them up for sale but I've modded these before and they respond so well to mods so I kept them and bit the bullet and opened them up. Glad I did because these puppies can sing!


Thanks for the great advice and quick reply I'm going to give that a try I'm not shy of modding stuff . kind of new to the headphone modding thanks again Rock on.


----------



## volly

@joeike - Rock on dude, send us a PM if you get stuck or got any questions but there's plenty of info over in the T50 mod thread. Good luck!

@runeight - Thanks Runeight, she's a beauty of an amp. Really lovin' the lively sound and authority this thing puts out! What's your thoughts on tube rolling with the MCTH, keep stock EH and call it a day?


----------



## runeight

volly said:


> @joeike - Rock on dude, send us a PM if you get stuck or got any questions but there's plenty of info over in the T50 mod thread. Good luck!
> 
> @runeight - Thanks Runeight, she's a beauty of an amp. Really lovin' the lively sound and authority this thing puts out! What's your thoughts on tube rolling with the MCTH, keep stock EH and call it a day?



There have been quite a few comments on tube rolling on this and the MD thread. In general, the amp isn't going to change character much with tube rolling, although it will some. Many of comments have been that people rolled tubes and decided that the stock EH was the best sound. But others definitely heard improvements or changes that brought the sound closer to their tastes.

The main issue is to make sure that you have enough hours on the amp and tube for it to show its real SQ.


----------



## dudlew

Just received this little fellow. I am burning it in, but I am not at my main setup, so its running straight from the laptop headphone out for the time being. So far, I am enjoying it. Cant compare to the Burson yet as I am not next to it. It is powerful and my cans are pretty efficient, so not pushing past 10 on the volume knob when I am listening. Right now this is just burn in and its approaching 24 hours. Put it on yesterday at about 130 pm. 

Lets see what happens..


dudlew


----------



## joeike

dudlew said:


> Just received this little fellow. I am burning it in, but I am not at my main setup, so its running straight from the laptop headphone out for the time being. So far, I am enjoying it. Cant compare to the Burson yet as I am not next to it. It is powerful and my cans are pretty efficient, so not pushing past 10 on the volume knob when I am listening. Right now this is just burn in and its approaching 24 hours. Put it on yesterday at about 130 pm.
> 
> Lets see what happens..
> 
> ...


Yeah good luck with that I've been burning mine in for a few days now just about a week I guess a few hours each night with and without the headphones surprised how I still have to turn the volume up to about 12 to get some good volume out but I do have the fostex txos and they're not very efficient. When I switch over to the AKG 553 they do sound a little brighter compared to the fostex cans but there Studio cans so that's the way they're supposed to be but loving the sound out of both enjoy.


----------



## Stabby

Is there a better alternative for power supply without building one of your own?


----------



## volly

@Stabby - I've ordered one off Ebay (custom job) a few weeks back, still waiting for it to arrive. If you're interested PM me for more details. 

The stock one isn't bad but it isn't exactly great either! But for the price I guess sacrifices had to be made. When I received my unit I had to get a travel adapter so it sits janky as heck in my power board, it triggers my OCD every time I look at it!

But damn does this amp sing, really very nice, all my headphones from my rotation has had a turn and it just does a great even stellar job. Interesting thing I find that I can run my IEM's through it too without much displeasure.


----------



## Odin412

I purchased my Cavalli Tube Hybrid (CTH) after CanJam SoCal and wanted to share my impressions. First, the CTH needs burn-in. Out of the box the treble sounds rough and grainy. The user guide recommends 100 hours of burn in and I agree with that. After 100 hours the treble becomes significantly smoother and a lot more pleasant to my ears.

Let’s discuss the negatives first: In order to hit the $250 price point (which makes the amp a great value) Massdrop had to use some lower-cost components. The case looks good to my eyes and seems to be well made, but compared to my original Cavalli Liquid Carbon the power switch feels cheap with a less satisfying ‘click’, the headphone jacks don’t work as smoothly and the volume control is not as silky and buttery. Of course, the Liquid Carbon is more than twice as expensive so it’s not a fair comparison. However, Schiit Audio amps in the same price range seem to have better component quality IMHO.

Now, the sound. This is a great sounding amp! Not just for the price, it’s great sounding period. It has the trademark liquid Cavalli midrange, the treble is very smooth after burn-in and the bass is deep and solid. Is it as good as my Liquid Carbon? No, the LC has a fuller tone, cleaner treble and an overall slightly warmer sound to my ears, but the CTH sounds really good with a range of headphones. (I’ve tried the MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open, the Sennheiser HD 650 and ZMF Omni so far.) At the asking price the CTH is a great amp and a great value.


----------



## alchemist23

Just a heads up. I’ve put mine for sale on eBay. Uk only.


----------



## volly

MCTH + Alessandro MS2's. These hardly get any head time but with this combo, just _WOW_...beautiful!


----------



## alchemist23

alchemist23 said:


> Just a heads up. I’ve put mine for sale on eBay. Uk only.


change of plan. Starting to sound really good!


----------



## volly

How long have you had if for @alchemist23?


----------



## alchemist23

volly said:


> How long have you had if for @alchemist23?


About a month


----------



## jrhill

This was a question - Is there a better alternative for power supply without building one of your own?

I think you'll have to wait for some of the guys to actually try out some ready-built commercially available power supply and read the feedback.

I'm setting up a Super Teddyregs  and the AMB Sigma 11 regulator and will play around  with the output caps with these, and  will have something more to say about the results later on- to build something like this as a commercial unit, it'd probably be well over the U$250 mark - something based on a Salas shunt reg  (a possible later project) would probably be more expensive than this but there's a lot of very good circuits for power supplies available - the trick is to find what actually gives the 'best' sound for you, or a system similar to yours.


----------



## joeike

volly said:


> @Stabby - I've ordered one off Ebay (custom job) a few weeks back, still waiting for it to arrive. If you're interested PM me for more details.
> 
> The stock one isn't bad but it isn't exactly great either! But for the price I guess sacrifices had to be made. When I received my unit I had to get a travel adapter so it sits janky as heck in my power board, it triggers my OCD every time I look at it!
> 
> But damn does this amp sing, really very nice, all my headphones from my rotation has had a turn and it just does a great even stellar job. Interesting thing I find that I can run my IEM's through it too without much displeasure.


When trying my fiio F9 IEM  I'm getting very faint pulsating noise. I'm going to swap out the cable to the other unbalanced cable that came with it to see if the problem goes away.


----------



## volly

@joeike - It's probably the amp, on super-sensitive iem's I'll pick up noise floor easily on this amp. The Fiio is 28ohm?


----------



## joeike

volly said:


> @joeike - It's probably the amp, on super-sensitive iem's I'll pick up noise floor easily on this amp. The Fiio is 28ohm?


Yeah I think so can't find anything on  web but they sound great with a portable amp and my phone so that's all that really matters for now thanks for the inquiry.


----------



## 222HEAVY

Would anyone have an opinion how this amp would fare against the Cayin HA-1A (MK1).

Thanks


----------



## junki

Is anyone else's MCTH volume knob scratchy when adjusting during an active signal? Mine is quite scratchy in the left channel when doing so.


----------



## joeike

junki said:


> Is anyone else's MCTH volume knob scratchy when adjusting during an active signal? Mine is quite scratchy in the left channel when doing so.


No not for me  I had mine for about 2 weeks now so far so good sorry to hear about that.


----------



## jeffrt

junki said:


> Is anyone else's MCTH volume knob scratchy when adjusting during an active signal? Mine is quite scratchy in the left channel when doing so.



Nope, not here. 
I'd double check your interconnect and your tube. Is it there with other interconnects? Is it there with other tubes? If so, then maybe it's your unit. Otherwise, something else is at fault.


----------



## buke9

No scratching sounds from mine either.


----------



## barleyguy

Hi. Not sure if anyone has asked this yet (haven't read all 43 pages), but how does this compare to the original CTH?

I own the original. It was hand built for me. It lives on my bedside table and it's my most used headphone amp.

My current go-to headphones for it are the Sennheiser HD-598, the original ivory colored ones.

Has anyone here heard both this new one and the original? Is the new one a tangible upgrade?

Thanks.


----------



## Bazirker

barleyguy said:


> Hi. Not sure if anyone has asked this yet (haven't read all 43 pages), but how does this compare to the original CTH?
> 
> I own the original. It was hand built for me. It lives on my bedside table and it's my most used headphone amp.
> 
> ...



That's a fascinating question.  I was one of the first people to receive their CTH (serial #52) and have been following this thread closely for some time, and I don't think I've seen any such impressions.  You can get a Massdrop CTH in the for sale section here for around $200, so you could maybe fill us in!


----------



## someyoungguy

My MCTH arrived the other day - and I soon realised I didn't even have a 3.5mm to 2 X RCA to connect it to anything. Just picked one up and listening to it now.

I've never owned a tube amp and thought it might be interesting to take a listen out of the box and see what's like now, in order to get an appreciation for the kinds of changes that happen with burn in. But I have to say, listening out of the box it's sounding pretty damn good.
Currently using Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS -> Massdrop CTH -> Massdrop HD6XX.

My HD6XXs have had very little use so far as I haven't had much available that could drive them properly, so will probably just burn in both together.


----------



## Phantaminum

someyoungguy said:


> My MCTH arrived the other day - and I soon realised I didn't even have a 3.5mm to 2 X RCA to connect it to anything. Just picked one up and listening to it now.
> 
> I've never owned a tube amp and thought it might be interesting to take a listen out of the box and see what's like now, in order to get an appreciation for the kinds of changes that happen with burn in. But I have to say, listening out of the box it's sounding pretty damn good.
> Currently using Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS -> Massdrop CTH -> Massdrop HD6XX.
> ...



I think you're going to like the synergy between the HD6XXs and the MTCH. It's fantastic sounding combo, engaging, and cheap to boot. Give it at least 100 hours before making a final decision on it and you'll hear quite a difference from the first listen. Tube opens up and the amp settles down.


----------



## jeffrt

someyoungguy said:


> My MCTH arrived the other day - and I soon realised I didn't even have a 3.5mm to 2 X RCA to connect it to anything. Just picked one up and listening to it now.
> 
> I've never owned a tube amp and thought it might be interesting to take a listen out of the box and see what's like now, in order to get an appreciation for the kinds of changes that happen with burn in. But I have to say, listening out of the box it's sounding pretty damn good.
> Currently using Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS -> Massdrop CTH -> Massdrop HD6XX.
> ...



It's not technically a "tube amp". It's a hybrid: that is, a tube input/driver stage with a solid state amplifier section.

It is, theoretically, the best of both worlds. I like and have a speaker amplifier that is similar: tube inputs with hexfet output (power0 stage. Depending on source, interconnects and the tube(s) used, it can give a very nice overall sound: the drive of solid state with the bloom and real life presence that tubes use to reflect the "sound of music".


----------



## someyoungguy

jeffrt said:


> It's not technically a "tube amp". It's a hybrid: that is, a tube input/driver stage with a solid state amplifier section.
> 
> It is, theoretically, the best of both worlds. I like and have a speaker amplifier that is similar: tube inputs with hexfet output (power0 stage. Depending on source, interconnects and the tube(s) used, it can give a very nice overall sound: the drive of solid state with the bloom and real life presence that tubes use to reflect the "sound of music".



Yeah sorry poor choice of words, I realize it is a hybrid - should have said I'd never had an amp with tubes in it! The qualities you describe are what I'm really looking forward to - the "sound of music", but way heavier than the musical 

The bad thing is this gets me really curious about products like the Alo Audio Continental Dual Mono or Woo Audio devices.... but my wallet would never forgive me.


----------



## jeffrt

someyoungguy said:


> Yeah sorry poor choice of words, I realize it is a hybrid - should have said I'd never had an amp with tubes in it! The qualities you describe are what I'm really looking forward to - the "sound of music", but way heavier than the musical
> 
> The bad thing is this gets me really curious about products like the Alo Audio Continental Dual Mono or Woo Audio devices.... but my wallet would never forgive me.



No problem. I hope you enjoy this price incredible amp as much as I do. 

I was contemplating a Woo WA-6, until I tried a Schiit Valhalla 2. I love the Vahalla 2 but think the cheaper Cavalli is a better match for the Sennheiser HD580s/HD600/HD650s.


----------



## kukkurovaca

someyoungguy said:


> The bad thing is this gets me really curious about products like the Alo Audio Continental Dual Mono



I just noticed that ALO put up a "Good" condition CDM on their deals page for $900. (I don't know if that's helpful info or the opposite...) 

https://aloaudio.deals/shop/continental-dual-mono/


----------



## someyoungguy (May 4, 2018)

kukkurovaca said:


> I just noticed that ALO put up a "Good" condition CDM on their deals page for $900. (I don't know if that's helpful info or the opposite...)
> 
> https://aloaudio.deals/shop/continental-dual-mono/


Probably the opposite  ... ha ha... Damn that is a good price though.

So I've been listening for a few hours and switching back and forth between the sources and headphones I have (I've a bit too much gear at the moment, want to scale it down once I make some decisions what to keep).

In all honesty I'm finding the MCTH goes well with the low resistance headphones I have as well - B&W P7s, Sennheiser Momentum 2s, and Sennheiser HD630VBs. The amp is powerful and right down at the bottom of the volume dial I'm finding a bit of channel imbalance, but as long as you turn down the source volume to get higher on the MCTH pot (9 o'clock upwards) the combination is good, particularly with B&W P7s.

For sources I have:
Plenue M
Plenue R
DacMagic XS
Ifi micro iDSD

I just got the Plenue R a few weeks ago as a replacement for the Plenue M, which I have for sale. I also had the Ifi micro iDSD for sale - I used to have a Mojo, but found myself thinking "this sounds great, if only I could change the treble roll-off" enough times that I thought it was time to move on from the Mojo and ended up getting the micro iDSD as a replacement. But in all honesty I found the micro iDSD to be quite bright - within a few hours of use I could tell we just weren't going to fit well together. The upper mids and treble seemed to strong, not quite sibilant, but it would get fatiguing. Good news - using the RCA outs on the micro iDSD and feeding into the MCTH I'm getting a sound I'm much happier with. The micro iDSD really does have great detail and dynamics, and the combination of changing "preamplification/direct" settings (essentially, fixed RCA line out or variable out) and different gain settings via the "eco/normal/turbo" modes gives you quite a variety of options for feeding in different volume signals. I'm finding the MCTH takes the edge off those upper mids/treble that were bothering me, so now I'm getting the best of both worlds.

In all honesty, I had the micro iDSD boxed up and listed on a New Zealand sale site, and decided to see what it sounded like almost as an afterthought. I'm glad I did - I've removed it and will probably sell the DacMagic XS now. The Plenue R sounds good as a source too - the MCTH gives it a bit more body than you get just out of the headphone jack, and the JetEffect allows you to tweak the sound a little. But not as good as the micro iDSD as a source - if you listened to it alone you'd think it was fine, but side by side you can feel that bit extra in the shift in dynamics with the micro iDSD.

If you really want to get into an orgy of audio, you can even feed the Plenue R into the optical input of the micro iDSD, then the MCTH (see photo)! The Plenue R does color the sound though - it's not a straight digital out but, for example, passes through JetEffects if you have them on.

I can see myself using the MCTH as my default, go-to amp when at home, probably using it with the DAC section of the micro iDSD and bypassing the iDSD's amp.
  
(edited for image duplications)


----------



## volly

@someyoungguy - very nice, would look sexy with the ifi Black! 

Received the Linear PSU from China in today, just warming it up. Fingers crossed all goes well!


----------



## trybeingarun

Bhuddha's getting warm in all the right places


----------



## alchemist23

volly said:


> @someyoungguy - very nice, would look sexy with the ifi Black!
> 
> Received the Linear PSU from China in today, just warming it up. Fingers crossed all goes well!


That looks neat. Looking forward to your opinions on it


----------



## volly

Update: PSU worked for about 1 hour then died. Getting in touch with the seller. 

Pretty pissed but that's the risky you take....


----------



## jrhill

Who was the seller and what's the name of the supply?     Maybe just a fuse?


----------



## volly

Seller is DIYseller86, it was a custom build. 

Pulled the fuse and yeah...it had blown. I'll go out tomorrow and source another fuse but not sure on the final outcome. 

Keep you posted.


----------



## jrhill

Don't recognize this name but it might be another version of the "along 1986360" moniker where the ZeroZone modules come from - I've been pretty happy with them over the years.

Maybe it's just a wrong fuse for your line volts ...


----------



## runeight

volly said:


> Seller is DIYseller86, it was a custom build.
> 
> Pulled the fuse and yeah...it had blown. I'll go out tomorrow and source another fuse but not sure on the final outcome.
> 
> Keep you posted.



If the fuse blew it could mean that the supply is not really sufficient to power the amp. May I ask what its ratings are?


----------



## volly

Thanks for the reply @runeight, *AC28V 2050mA *is what I asked for them to make. 

Had a whole bunch of things happen today, this is the least of my worries at the moment but I'll deal with this later.


----------



## franz12 (May 5, 2018)

junki said:


> Is anyone else's MCTH volume knob scratchy when adjusting during an active signal? Mine is quite scratchy in the left channel when doing so.



I had a similar problem. Mine was scratchy when I was dialing between 6-12. Contacted Massdrop, and replaced it. Replaced one doesn't have that problem, and sounds cleaner.

Gosh. my ether c flow sounds divine with it, which I never experienced with hugo alone.


----------



## Stabby

I'm still waiting for mine and a little worried it will have the same problem. I'm not sure if they'd send a replacement to Belgium.


----------



## R-Oak

hi, the drop is about to finish, and i have been informing myself and reading alot about audio in the last 2 weeks
long story short
i have a pair of 6xx and
speakers that are personus 4.5bt ceres ( that don't seems to need any amp'ing)

thing is, i won't want to ubgrade my headphones in the next 10 year for sure
but i think at one point i will want to replace my speaker, or add a subwoofer

i'm guessing a small amp like this wont alow me to use it for headphones AND future speakers 

i have been looking at the Jotunheim. 

is this MCTH a insane good combo whit the 650, but should stay as a headphone amp only ?


----------



## joeike

R-Oak said:


> hi, the drop is about to finish, and i have been informing myself and reading alot about audio in the last 2 weeks
> long story short
> i have a pair of 6xx and
> speakers that are personus 4.5bt ceres ( that don't seems to need any amp'ing)
> ...


The cth is only really for headphones I would look into a integrated amplifier or stand-alone amp maybe something  emotiva. They have a new line out the 100 and 300 series for $399.00


----------



## ScottFW (May 8, 2018)

R-Oak said:


> is this MCTH a insane good combo whit the 650, but should stay as a headphone amp only ?


IIRC it outputs about 1 watt, and not many loudspeakers can be driven with real authority by 1 watt.
EDIT: Nevermind. Forgot the MCTH doesn't have line outs. Your Personus are powered monitors with their own built-in amp. You could theoretically run the headphone out from the MCTH to the input of your Personus, but this might be suboptimal. Specifically, cranking up the volume on the MCTH will probably overdrive the inputs and cause distortion.
And yes, the MCTH plays very well with HD650.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I picked up my CTH from the UPS store this morning ... I've been listening for 3-4 hours off and on .... During the last hour or so I'm starting to get a metalic whine or ting in the left channel ... Volume pot has been at listening levels with minor adjustments depending on song loudness level ...

Is this something to do with burn in or the tube


----------



## erein1982

JerryLeeds said:


> I picked up my CTH from the UPS store this morning ... I've been listening for 3-4 hours off and on .... During the last hour or so I'm starting to get a metalic whine or ting in the left channel ... Volume pot has been at listening levels with minor adjustments depending on song loudness level ...
> 
> Is this something to do with burn in or the tube



Not sure on that one.  Mine came out of the box and sound was clear and clean.


----------



## Odin412

JerryLeeds said:


> I picked up my CTH from the UPS store this morning ... I've been listening for 3-4 hours off and on .... During the last hour or so I'm starting to get a metalic whine or ting in the left channel ... Volume pot has been at listening levels with minor adjustments depending on song loudness level ...
> 
> Is this something to do with burn in or the tube



It may be related to tube burn-in. Give it some more time and see if the issue goes away.


----------



## joeike

Odin412 said:


> It may be related to tube burn-in. Give it some more time and see if the issue goes away.


I had a little bit of random distortion on my right ear the first couple hours or so if I recall but now after 30 40 hours so I guess everything sounds really clear and crisp just give it a little time I think you'll be okay.


----------



## Bazirker

JerryLeeds said:


> I picked up my CTH from the UPS store this morning ... I've been listening for 3-4 hours off and on .... During the last hour or so I'm starting to get a metalic whine or ting in the left channel ... Volume pot has been at listening levels with minor adjustments depending on song loudness level ...
> 
> Is this something to do with burn in or the tube



Make sure that the tube is properly seated in its socket.  This is my first tube amp and I don't know if they are all like this, but I feel like the tube has to be in there just right for it to perform appropriately.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Thanks everyone. I turned the unit off and reseated the tube a bit, doubled checked the connections. After that the noise went away.  It was like a metalic buzzing. Maybe that is why they make those tube vibration dampers?

Anyway, This amp is very nice sounding. I'm using it for a small setup for use in my kitchen and three season porch. I was using a liquid carbon v2 and the sounds were a little to thick. This new amp is much more rounded and is a great match with ZMF Atticus & Eikon.

Though I do wish there was a gain switch. I don't seem to need anymore then a 10 o'clock and it is a fingerprint magnet


----------



## jonman1 (May 15, 2018)

I have had this amp since the first drop in February and it is a fun little tube amp. After 10 hours the tube cracked though but got a refund to replace the tube with a third party vendor. Decided to replace with a Reflector 6H23p-EB and it really tightened the bass and is definitely a all around upgrade. It is much warmer and funkier than my Centrance Dacmini PX and cavalli liquid carbon. It complements a ss amp very well.


----------



## JerryLeeds

JerryLeeds said:


> Thanks everyone. I turned the unit off and reseated the tube a bit, doubled checked the connections. After that the noise went away.  It was like a metalic buzzing. Maybe that is why they make those tube vibration dampers?
> 
> Anyway, This amp is very nice sounding. I'm using it for a small setup for use in my kitchen and three season porch. I was using a liquid carbon v2 and the sounds were a little to thick. This new amp is much more rounded and is a great match with ZMF Atticus & Eikon.
> 
> Though I do wish there was a gain switch. I don't seem to need anymore then a 10 o'clock and it is a fingerprint magnet



So this morning ... After burning in over night (now at around 30 hours) the noise came back ... Being a little sleepy, I sent an email to massdrop about getting a replacement.

I then switched the tube to a gold version from the same company ... same sound ... 

I then dug up an old amp to try and bam the sound was there again ... So problem was with a two month old Mumby .. 

I switched out the Mumby for another my brother has and everything is fine .. now

I'll do some more testing just to see and then an email to Schiit

So just letting everyone know that my MCTH   has up to this point been great.

BTW: the Gold pin version tube seems to be better ... After reading a few posts about a possible bad batch of tubes is why I switched the tube


----------



## dpump

Don't know if you tried turning the DAC off and turning it back on after say 30 seconds. I have had similar problems over the years with DACs when they were zapped with static or there was a spike or power outage. Sometimes rebooting the DAC will solve the problem. There has been some discussion on another site about strange noises in the Schiit Modi Multibit and rebooting it fixed it.


----------



## Natarian

Anyone have some comparisons between the cth and Valhalla 2?


----------



## jeffrt

Natarian said:


> Anyone have some comparisons between the cth and Valhalla 2?



Major difference.
The Valhalla is an OTL with low power into low impedance headphones, like Hifimans (35 ohms), but glorious tube sound into higher impedance phones, like the Sennhesiers (300 ohms).
The Cavalli is a hybrid: tube input with solid state output with more power down low for more "appropriate" sound into low impedance headphones, like Hifiman.

To/for my ears:
The Cavalli almost wants more mellifluous tubes to round out the sound of the solid state output (I use Amperex Orange globe 6922), while the Valhalla almost wants leaner, more full range tubes to balance off it more rounder sounding tubes (I use Tung-Sol 6CG7s in the input/driver stage).

I have both and both can be balanced in any way you see fit, by the right tubes and the right interconnects.


----------



## Stabby (May 23, 2018)

Mine just arrived. Import duties were €87, so I hope it's worth it.

Fortunately no defects and it sounds great out of the box paired with the Topping D30 and HD650. I'm still in the first hour of burn-in. What changes should I expect? Sound stage? Changes in warmth and highs? It sounds a bit in your face now, will that change?


----------



## joeike

Stabby said:


> Mine just arrived. Import duties were €87, so I hope it's worth it.
> 
> Fortunately no defects and it sounds great out of the box paired with the Topping D30 and HD650. I'm still in the first hour of burn-in. What changes should I expect? Sound stage? Changes in warmth and highs? It sounds a bit in your face now, will that change?


I've got about 50 hours on mine I think the sound changed  a little bit warmer some soundstage also I'm very happy with it hope you like yours


----------



## Stabby (May 23, 2018)

joeike said:


> I've got about 50 hours on mine I think the sound changed  a little bit warmer some soundstage also I'm very happy with it hope you like yours



I am incredibly happy so far. Topping D30 + HD650 + CTH is endgame for me. I don't think I'll get Spotify to sound much better than this.


----------



## UNOE

I'm using the CTH with D50


----------



## jeffrt

UNOE said:


> I'm using the CTH with D50



It would be nice if some of you explained what you're using when you say things like this. 

How would expect anyone to know what a "D50" is? Really! 
OR must I go back and read the previous 8,483 Cavalli posts?


----------



## JerryLeeds

jeffrt said:


> It would be nice if some of you explained what you're using when you say things like this.
> 
> How would expect anyone to know what a "D50" is? Really!
> OR must I go back and read the previous 8,483 Cavalli posts?



I didn't know what a D50 was either, but there is a very popular thing on the internet ... Google.com .... You might want to try it out


----------



## Stabby

jeffrt said:


> It would be nice if some of you explained what you're using when you say things like this.
> 
> How would expect anyone to know what a "D50" is? Really!
> OR must I go back and read the previous 8,483 Cavalli posts?



It was a reply to me saying I'm using a Topping D30 DAC. There is also the Topping D50.


----------



## jeffrt

JerryLeeds said:


> I didn't know what a D50 was either, but there is a very popular thing on the internet ... Google.com .... You might want to try it out



I do not wish to google every expression used by someone who should explain themselves in the first place. If I did, I'd never get anything done or anything read.

There 4, 595, 832 interesting things on the internet.


----------



## jeffrt

Stabby said:


> It was a reply to me saying I'm using a Topping D30 DAC. There is also the Topping D50.



I thank you, sir, for clarifying that for me.


----------



## franz12

jeffrt said:


> I do not wish to google every expression used by someone who should explain themselves in the first place. If I did, I'd never get anything done or anything read.
> 
> There 4, 595, 832 interesting things on the internet.


Put it bluntly, who cares.


----------



## jeffrt

franz12 said:


> Put it bluntly, who cares.



Most people who post should. If you want your post understood, you shoudn't state things that need further explanation.


----------



## Randonneur (May 24, 2018)

jeffrt said:


> Most people who post should. If you want your post understood, you shoudn't state things that need further explanation.



You are new on a specialist, enthusiast site. If you don't understand the terms, it's on you to educate yourself rather that demand that everyone else spoon feed you.

I wouldn't go onto a car forum and demand that a Mustang be called a "Mustang, a model of car made by Ford"


----------



## jeffrt

Randonneur said:


> You are new on a specialist, enthusiast site. If you don't understand the terms, it's on you to educate yourself rather that demand that everyone else spoon feed you.
> 
> I wouldn't go onto a car forum and demand that a Mustang be called a "Mustang, a model of car made by Ford"



That's an overly simplistic point of view, not demonstrative of this situation at all.

I am not new to any site but this one. You put the string "D50" in any website in the WORLD and I challenge you to find 5% of the participants who know what that means unless it was mentioned in detail in that web page. All the poster needed to type was "Topping D50", but I suppose that was far too long and far too tedious for him to be bothered doing.

You, sir, have a lot to learn about communication, as do about 90% of the people who post here.


----------



## wingsounds13 (May 24, 2018)

The Mustang argument might hold some merit it this were a Topping forum, or even a Topping thread.  It is not, thus is a Massdrop Cavalli thread in a general audio forum therefore the argument lacks merit.  Unfortunately, some people are lazy and happy to make many others do two minutes of work just to save themeelves two seconds of work.  On the other hand, some have learned to take that two seconds and make it easier on everyone else. 

Interesting how writing / posting style can be a gauge of character. 

J.P.


----------



## jonman1

wingsounds13 said:


> The Mustang argument might hold some merit it this were a Topping forum, or even a Topping thread.  It is not, thus is a Massdrop Cavalli thread in a general audio forum therefore the argument lacks merit.  Unfortunately, some people are lazy and happy to make many others do two minutes of work just to save themeelves two seconds of work.  On the other hand, some have learned to take that two seconds and make it easier on everyone else.
> 
> Interesting how writing / posting style can be a gauge of character.
> 
> J.P.


Not really


----------



## wingsounds13 (May 24, 2018)

jonman1 said:


> Not really


 

The "Not really" response (with no punctuation) was made in response to what part of the quoted post?  Perhaps the quoted post could have been edited down to the most pertinent information.  To me that would seem to be point made, but not as the author intended.

J.P.


----------



## jonman1 (May 24, 2018)

wingsounds13 said:


> The "Not really" response (with no punctuation) was made in response to what part of the quoted post?  Perhaps the quoted post could have been edited down to the most pertinent information.  To me that would seem to be point made, but not as the author intended.
> 
> J.P.


Edit: Sorry, I must apologize for my reply if you read it before this edit. Bad morning.


----------



## UNOE

Stabby said:


> I am incredibly happy so far. Topping D30 + HD650 + CTH is endgame for me. I don't think I'll get Spotify to sound much better than this.


Anyways it was a quick comment when I was working..  

The Topping DAC's are really amazing for the price.  I own the DX7 as well as D50.  But both pair amazing with CTH.  I can imagine D30 is the same.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Wow ... What does this ignore button do?

Yes ....


----------



## JerryLeeds

Any one using the MCTH with a Chord Qutest? I'm looking to spend more money by upgrading from a Modi Multibit to the Qutest 

Is this over kill for the MCTH Amp?

Source will just be via optical


----------



## UNOE

JerryLeeds said:


> Any one using the MCTH with a Chord Qutest? I'm looking to spend more money by upgrading from a Modi Multibit to the Qutest
> 
> Is this over kill for the MCTH Amp?
> 
> Source will just be via optical


I like my Topping D50 more than my Mojo with the CTH.  Maybe a bit overkill.  If your spending that much you probably would like the Monoprice Cavalli Tube amp.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 25, 2018)

JerryLeeds said:


> Any one using the MCTH with a Chord Qutest? I'm looking to spend more money by upgrading from a Modi Multibit to the Qutest
> 
> Is this over kill for the MCTH Amp?
> 
> Source will just be via optical



I was using my MTCH at work with the Mimby and really like how well they both sounded together. Brought it home as I ended up selling my Mjolnir 2 and paired it with my Gumby. The Gumby resolves slightly better paired with this amp and there's better instrument separation. Maybe it's me but really; I can't tell a big difference compared going from the Mimby+MCTH to Gumby+MTCH compared when I made the jump with the MJ2.

At the price of the Qutest you could purchase a better amp and pair it with a decent DAC.


----------



## Hansotek

JerryLeeds said:


> Any one using the MCTH with a Chord Qutest? I'm looking to spend more money by upgrading from a Modi Multibit to the Qutest
> 
> Is this over kill for the MCTH Amp?
> 
> Source will just be via optical



I’ve been using it with the Hugo 2, and I’m enjoying it.


----------



## Anaz

JerryLeeds said:


> Any one using the MCTH with a Chord Qutest? I'm looking to spend more money by upgrading from a Modi Multibit to the Qutest
> 
> Is this over kill for the MCTH Amp?
> 
> Source will just be via optical


I think a Qutest would be overkill for the just an MCTH because I don't think an MCTH is resolving enough for that good a DAC ...unless you're planning to upgrade to a new amp shortly    LOL the upgrade bug in this hobby is expensive!!


----------



## franz12

Phantaminum said:


> I was using my MTCH at work with the Mimby and really like how well they both sounded together. Brought it home as I ended up selling my Mjolnir 2 and paired it with my Gumby. The Gumby resolves slightly better paired with this amp and there's better instrument separation. Maybe it's me but really; I can't tell a big difference compared going from the Mimby+MCTH to Gumby+MTCH compared when I made the jump with the MJ2.
> 
> At the price of the Qutest you could purchase a better amp and pair it with a decent DAC.



Probably due to balanced DAC-balanced AMP versus balanced DAC-SE AMP? I don't know. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Phantaminum

franz12 said:


> Probably due to balanced DAC-balanced AMP versus balanced DAC-SE AMP? I don't know. Just my 2 cents.



From my understanding is that RCA and balanced  out from the Gumby pretty much sound the same. 

But there is a noticeable difference between SE and balanced out on the MJ2 because of summing.


----------



## alchemist23

I’ve currently got mine for sale on U.K. eBay


----------



## holden4th

Is it possible to add a pre amp with DAC to the CTH? I only see one set of RCA inputs and wonder what you could add to it. For example would the Burson Play connect to the CTH


----------



## spyder1

holden4th said:


> Is it possible to add a pre amp with DAC to the CTH? I only see one set of RCA inputs and wonder what you could add to it. For example would the Burson Play connect to the CTH



Music sources, (Pre-AMP/ w DAC, CD Player, Record Player) can be connected to CTH with RCA cables, as long as the music source has RCA outputs.


----------



## progrockrob

Has anyone found the input impedance of this amp? I can't find it anywhere...


----------



## Roscoeiii

progrockrob said:


> Has anyone found the input impedance of this amp? I can't find it anywhere...



Haven't come across it,  but generally amp makers give us a high enough input impedance that it shouldn't be a real factor in gear matching. Unless you have a source with an unusually high output impedance? Or is there something else I'm not taking into account. 

Output impedance, on the other hand can really impact the freq response for some headphones (looking at you here, Andromeda) and/or speakers. But this is a factor only for the amp that is directly driving the transducer (headphone or speaker). Again, unless I am missing something.


----------



## Bruc3

Can someone who has these compare the CTH+SDAC or O2+ODAC or CTH vs Valhalla 2?

Also interested in how it pairs with Beyerdynamic headphones specifically the T1 or T90.


----------



## DavidA

Bruc3 said:


> Can someone who has these compare the CTH+SDAC or O2+ODAC or CTH vs Valhalla2?
> 
> Also interested in how it pairs with Beyerdynamic headphones specifically the T1 or T90.


I can answer half of your question: For T1gen1 I'd never recommend / consider the O2/ODAC since its always been a bit on the bright side and with most of the headphone I tried it with a bit thin and hollow sounding.  The Valhalla2 is great with some of the darker/warmer headphones like the HD650 and Nighthawk but for most other headphones its a bit on the dry thin side of neutral to me and it doesn't seem to respond to tube rolling like other amps.

I've only spent 2 hours at a friends house using her CTH and even from the short time liked it more than the either O2/ODAC or Valhalla2, just a more full and musical sounding amp to me but it was just a touch bright sounding with the HD700 and HD800 IMO.  Didn't get to try the CTH with a T1gen1 since I gave mine to my son a few months ago.


----------



## Bruc3

Thanks for your impression.  There is a drop going now, tempted to jump on it. Will hold off for now though.


----------



## someyoungguy

If there's any head-fiers from New Zealand on here, I've just listed mine for sale on TradeMe: https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1660899052

I love the sound and it's a great amp. I bought it mainly because I'd also jumped on the Massdrop/Sennheiser HD6XX drop and needed an amp to power those headphones. But I was finding the HD6XXs really don't have that much bass, and at 300 ohm they were waaay harder to drive than my other headphones, thus requiring an amp as well. I've decided just to stick with easy-to-drive headphones from now on that won't need amping. I sold the HD6XXs a few weeks ago and although the MCT sounds great paired with my B&W P7s, I've decided to simplify my set-up by getting rid of the amp and just going with portable solutions for the foreseeable future, given I hardly seem to be at home these days.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Has anyone been able to find a different power supply ... Something off the shelf?

Has anyone ordered an extra one from massdrop?


----------



## jrhill

You can buy aftermarket power supplies anywhere but the best results come from linear supplies - the amp comes with a switch mode supply = 28volts, 1.5Amps with a 2.1mm plug and uses approx 360mA in use (0.36Amp).

There are any number of manufacturers of Linear Power Supplies and if you're able, kits also available - Google is your friend


----------



## greenkiwi

Is love to see if a noise nuke creates just add good a power supply. Seems like I cost effective option.


----------



## mrjimmybob

I have just got my Cavalli CTH headphone amp from Massdrop and I am having a very hard time telling it apart from my Little Dot mk II.

Both are fed by a Raspberry Pi with an Allo BOSS DAC, I am using in the testing the Sennheiser HD-6XX also from Massdrop.

For the test, I swap the amps with the same other setup.

I would have expected at least a little increase in sound quality, but cannot really see any improvement. I guess all ears are different but it is very frustrating throwing money away for nothing (welcome to the audiophile world). 

If I could afford the Massdrop x AiristAudio R-2R DAC, that is a perfect match at least form factor wise with the CTH headphone amp I would consider keeping the Cavalli, but like this, I am not so sure.

Has anyone else been able to compare these amps?

What are your thoughts on this?


----------



## joeike

mrjimmybob said:


> I have just got my Cavalli CTH headphone amp from Massdrop and I am having a very hard time telling it apart from my Little Dot mk II.
> 
> Both are fed by a Raspberry Pi with an Allo BOSS DAC, I am using in the testing the Sennheiser HD-6XX also from Massdrop.
> 
> ...


Try putting some burning time on that tube  I think the sound changed for me after about 40 50 hours worth of burnin maybe try a different set of headphones just to be sure. I do not have another tube amp to compare it to but I'm very happy with it compared to other solid state amps I have.


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto (Jun 11, 2018)

mrjimmybob said:


> I have just got my Cavalli CTH headphone amp from Massdrop and I am having a very hard time telling it apart from my Little Dot mk II.
> 
> Both are fed by a Raspberry Pi with an Allo BOSS DAC, I am using in the testing the Sennheiser HD-6XX also from Massdrop.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't be looking for a "better" sound but a different one. The tube is still brand new, so it's likely to sound bassier & muddier as a result. That'll get better once you hit the 100 hour mark. 50 doesn't get you quite there yet. It also helps to know what to listen for. With the 6XX specifically you should hear a slightly wider sound stage & there should be more air in the treble too. It also gets warmer - much warmer at that with the new tube. That'll taper off as the hours go by but you should hear a bass boost.

I've had my CTH for a few months now & I hear differences almost immediately on another amp. You're still used to your old amp's sound. Listen to the CTH exclusively for a few days then test back & forth.


----------



## mrjimmybob

Thank you all for the comments. 

I will continue comparing the Little Dot mk II with the Massdrop Cavalli CTH after giving the Cavalli some more burn-in (to that matter I think the Little Dot mk II needs burning in too!). I really do expect the Cavalli to outperform the Little Dot mk II, for nearly one hundred dollars more it should.

I will also try other headphone like the Audio Technica ATH-A900X, Sennheiser Momentums (over ear version 1), Denon AH-D1100, and in the future if they arrive, the Massdrop HiFiMAN HE-4XX.

I can only really keep one headphone amp (I think my wife is already planning to kill me). The Little Dot mk II does look nice with the 4 tubes, although the chassis does look pretty cheap and flimsy.

On the other hand, the construction of the Cavalli CTH does look more premium, although it only has one glowing tube on top. 

I think I like looking at a headphone amp with many tubes glowing, more than I like listening to it! I know, roast me. 

It always seem that the hype never lives up to the delivered product, I just hope the Bottlehead Crack I have on the way does. Boy this is turning in to a very expensive hobby.


----------



## joeike

mrjimmybob said:


> Thank you all for the comments.
> 
> I will continue comparing the Little Dot mk II with the Massdrop Cavalli CTH after giving the Cavalli some more burn-in (to that matter I think the Little Dot mk II needs burning in too!). I really do expect the Cavalli to outperform the Little Dot mk II, for nearly one hundred dollars more it should.
> 
> ...


Happy wife happy life. Have a couple beers and you'll have no fears be easy on the ears


----------



## ScottFW

mrjimmybob said:


> It always seem that the hype never lives up to the delivered product, I just hope the Bottlehead Crack I have on the way does. Boy this is turning in to a very expensive hobby.


I have a Crack with some mods as well as the CTH.
Built the Crack a few years ago and have really enjoyed it with HD650s. Then I got some orthos (T50RP) that I modded to the point that they are actually listenable, but the Crack isn't a great match for those because they're 50 ohms and take a bit of current, so the Crack would peter out in the bass once the volume got up around 11:00-12:00.
The whole reason I bought the CTH was to get something with a neutral-ish frequency response and the detailed transparency of tubes in the mids and treble, but with more balls in the bass for lower impedance less efficient headphones. It delivers that pretty well. Many less expensive tube amps sound too artificially warm or dark or have wooly ill-defined bass.

The CTH also sounds great with HD650s. To me the CTH sounds a touch more transparent (I don't want to say "thin" but perhaps it has a slight "leanness") in the midbass to mids region compared to some other tube amps in its general price range, where the HD650 seems to have a wee bit more density there than other headphones, so the pairing makes a nice synergy.
I flip back and forth between the Crack and CTH with HD650s. I may prefer the Crack slightly more, but the CTH puts in a good showing considering my Crack probably has $700-800 and a lot of my time into it (Speedballed with switchable resistor board for different input tube types, pricey caps, PS mods, the bunch of tubes I've bought specifically for it etc.).

Also FWIW if you're trying to keep this hobby inexpensive by most normal peoples' standards and want an amp that will sound darn good while driving most reasonable headphone loads, I've heard no better buy than the Magni 3 for $99, provided you can live without the visual appeal of tubes.


----------



## joeike

ScottFW said:


> I have a Crack with some mods as well as the CTH.
> Built the Crack a few years ago and have really enjoyed it with HD650s. Then I got some orthos (T50RP) that I modded to the point that they are actually listenable, but the Crack isn't a great match for those because they're 50 ohms and take a bit of current, so the Crack would peter out in the bass once the volume got up around 11:00-12:00.
> The whole reason I bought the CTH was to get something with a neutral-ish frequency response and the detailed transparency of tubes in the mids and treble, but with more balls in the bass for lower impedance less efficient headphones. It delivers that pretty well. Many less expensive tube amps sound too artificially warm or dark or have wooly ill-defined bass.
> 
> ...


What do you think of the t50rp with the CTH ? I have the massdropT-XO fostex and they sound really good with CTH.
IMO.


----------



## ScottFW

joeike said:


> What do you think of the t50rp with the CTH ? I have the massdropT-XO fostex and they sound really good with CTH.
> IMO.


The combo is pretty good. My T50RP are the MkII version, modified to make them listenable. I have modeling clay worked into the back of the baffles, earcups lined with acoustic foam and stuffed with drug store cotton sheet material which combined to effectively tame the ridiculous midrange echo chamber effect, most of the vents taped over to enhance the bass, and transpore tape on the backs of the drivers to tune the treble. I forget whose version of mods this most resembles but it's pretty standard fare for T50RPs. Also running the V-Moda cable. 

The CTH has all the power they need for good bass (well defined with good extension) and the midrange is about right with the amp delivering on the resolution potential of those drivers (provided the deficiencies of the stock housings have been addressed). I haven't quite been 100% happy with the treble, but that's totally on the headphones and their state of modding, no fault of the CTH. I could probably play with the amount and placement of the transpore tape a little more. It's not particularly sibilant, just a touch uneven across the top end, but not quite objectionable enough to compel me to open them up again for more tweaking. If I'm not being deliberately nitpicky, the combo is very nice for extended listening sessions.

I haven't heard the T-X0 but from web pics it appears they addressed some of the shortcomings of the T50RP, which at least in MkII version was kind of a turd in stock form.


----------



## joeike (Jun 11, 2018)

ScottFW said:


> The combo is pretty good. My T50RP are the MkII version, modified to make them listenable. I have modeling clay worked into the back of the baffles, earcups lined with acoustic foam and stuffed with drug store cotton sheet material which combined to effectively tame the ridiculous midrange echo chamber effect, most of the vents taped over to enhance the bass, and transpore tape on the backs of the drivers to tune the treble. I forget whose version of mods this most resembles but it's pretty standard fare for T50RPs. Also running the V-Moda cable.
> 
> The CTH has all the power they need for good bass (well defined with good extension) and the midrange is about right with the amp delivering on the resolution potential of those drivers (provided the deficiencies of the stock housings have been addressed). I haven't quite been 100% happy with the treble, but that's totally on the headphones and their state of modding, no fault of the CTH. I could probably play with the amount and placement of the transpore tape a little more. It's not particularly sibilant, just a touch uneven across the top end, but not quite objectionable enough to compel me to open them up again for more tweaking. If I'm not being deliberately nitpicky, the combo is very nice for extended listening sessions.
> 
> I haven't heard the T-X0 but from web pics it appears they addressed some of the shortcomings of the T50RP, which at least in MkII version was kind of a turd in stock form.


The only thing I changed on the T-XO's where the Vmoda cable swap out and the brainwaves angled sheepskin pads which helped with the comfort and bass. I never heard a T50rp mk2 myself or what mods they added at massdrop to these but I'm very happy.


----------



## Bruc3

Im curious how does the cth compare to the valhalla 2?

Particularly looking at pairing it with sennheiser hd650 and beyer t90.


----------



## elwappo99

junki said:


> Is anyone else's MCTH volume knob scratchy when adjusting during an active signal? Mine is quite scratchy in the left channel when doing so.



Older post, but I also had this, but much worse. A can of deoxit resolved it.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Hey everyone ... Which closed headphones have paired well with this amp? Need something new for use in an office setup with the CTH


----------



## someyoungguy

I’m using B&W P7s. I was using HD6XXs, which is a good match but I decided after trying them maybe I’m really a closed headphone fan; I like some deep rumble in the low end and found the HD6XX/650s didn’t have enough for my tastes. The P7s are easy to drive and don’t need an amp, but do sound great out of the CTH


----------



## joeike (Jun 17, 2018)

JerryLeeds said:


> Hey everyone ... Which closed headphones have paired well with this amp? Need something new for use in an office setup with the CTH


The only close backs I own are the AKG 553 Pros and IMO I think they sound great on the CTH. They have a good seal and no leakage of sound.


----------



## Jearly410

JerryLeeds said:


> Hey everyone ... Which closed headphones have paired well with this amp? Need something new for use in an office setup with the CTH


ZMF Atticus has a magical synergy with this amp.


----------



## runeight (Jun 18, 2018)

Posted to wrong thread.


----------



## Odin412 (Jun 18, 2018)

runeight said:


> Without going into great detail, an enormous amount of work had to be directed to finding substitutes for many of the parts. I know this because no part can be substituted without my approval.



Sorry - wrong thread.


----------



## Zachik

Jearly410 said:


> ZMF Atticus has a magical synergy with this amp.


Totally agree!
To be honest, I am yet to find an amp that ZMF Atticus does not sound great out of...


----------



## JerryLeeds

Atticus is a little bit out of my price range for a set of cans to leave at the office.

Maybe a MH40 or pushing the budget for campfire Cascades


----------



## ScottFW

K553 Pro is what I use at the office. They're inexpensive and don't leak much sound even when listening at decently loud volume. They're also easy to drive - pretty sensitive overall and the big biocellulose drivers make good bass without needing a monster amp. I run them off a Magni 3 which is similarly priced to the K553 and waaaay more power than they need. It's rare for me to run the volume above 9:00-10:00 on the low gain setting. The CTH will have more than enough power. I haven't actually listened to the combo yet since the K553 lives at the office and the CTH normally lives at home, but I'll get around to it pretty soon.

I should add that IMO the K553 sounds just slightly forward in the 2 KHz to 6 KHz range. Maybe it's my ears, or being used to HD650s, and I have no data to back it up, but I use 1-2 dB of EQ in foobar to make the K553 more palatable to my ears. The headband padding also sucks, so I removed the stock piece in favor of a cheap pad I found on eBay. They're worth the little bit of effort though and I've been really happy with them for what I paid on massdrop a couple years back ($120?). Not sure what else sounds as good while leaking less sound at a similar price unless you start looking at IEMs.


----------



## greenkiwi

I used it with my Ether Cs. It sounded just fine. You could find some used... Or the Aeon Flow C


----------



## ohsigmachi

jrhill said:


> You can buy aftermarket power supplies anywhere but the best results come from linear supplies - the amp comes with a switch mode supply = 28volts, 1.5Amps with a 2.1mm plug and uses approx 360mA in use (0.36Amp).
> 
> There are any number of manufacturers of Linear Power Supplies and if you're able, kits also available - Google is your friend



Something like this? 

https://power.sager.com/gst25a28-p1...WlWLD9BIZ46CKxtpJ2Vt_lZ6P35vXgaRoC6xMQAvD_BwE


----------



## ohsigmachi

I've seen A LOT of these crop up in the for sale section. Are they not that good? Or do people just outgrow them really fast?

I currently have a Grace Design SDAC feeding a Darkvoice 336SE. I thought about upgrading the whole rig with the new R-2R DAC and the MCTH, but seeing all these people selling theirs off makes me hesitate...


----------



## jrhill

No, sorry 'ohsigmachi, those cheap power supplies are about the same as the one that comes with the amp - you're looking at a serious Linear Supply, not a 'switcher' supply and the amplifiers are nit at their best until you've put well over a hundred hours use on them

I haven't noticed 'all these people' selling off their CTH amplifiers apart from the usual number that want to try something else - frankly, these things with a decent linear power supply are definitely a 'keeper' but these linear power supplies will cost you as much, if not more, than the amp itself - from memory, a TeddyReg will set you back about U$450, the Paul Tynes SR-3 is a bit more, the Uptone audio is about U$400 and so on - there are a lot of cheaper ones on eBay too and they work okay too

In my opinion, the sound of the CTH is very different to the DarkVoice 336 - I have one of those here and completely rebuilt it, resistors, caps, tubes, socket, pot, etc and sourced some of those Chatham carbon tubes, etc and IMO, the CTH is a far superior amplifier 
Mind you, some folks will prefer the sound of the Darkvoice 336 with say, Senn 650s, so my enthusiastic comments are from someone that's very happy with the amp - it seems to drive well the Massdrop HE 4xxS, Senn 650, the AKG k701/2, the Beter 880s (250R version)  - the 'Thinksound' On2' is a bit heavy in the bass for me - I;m running a fairly good dac (Ayre Acoustic QB-9 sds) with a SOtM server so this is big on detail sound - I'm not at all sure about how good/bad the amp will sound with say, en MP3 data stream or low quality source.


----------



## joeike

ScottFW said:


> K553 Pro is what I use at the office. They're inexpensive and don't leak much sound even when listening at decently loud volume. They're also easy to drive - pretty sensitive overall and the big biocellulose drivers make good bass without needing a monster amp. I run them off a Magni 3 which is similarly priced to the K553 and waaaay more power than they need. It's rare for me to run the volume above 9:00-10:00 on the low gain setting. The CTH will have more than enough power. I haven't actually listened to the combo yet since the K553 lives at the office and the CTH normally lives at home, but I'll get around to it pretty soon.
> 
> I should add that IMO the K553 sounds just slightly forward in the 2 KHz to 6 KHz range. Maybe it's my ears, or being used to HD650s, and I have no data to back it up, but I use 1-2 dB of EQ in foobar to make the K553 more palatable to my ears. The headband padding also sucks, so I removed the stock piece in favor of a cheap pad I found on eBay. They're worth the little bit of effort though and I've been really happy with them for what I paid on massdrop a couple years back ($120?). Not sure what else sounds as good while leaking less sound at a similar price unless you start looking at IEMs.


I agree the CTH has an abundance of power for the K553 I go back and forth between them and the t-xos from massdrop and when I purchased the angled sheepskin for the t-xos I put the hybrid pads from the T-xos on the K553 for a more comfortable fit.


----------



## Bruc3

Sorry but can someone tell me why linear power is so important for the CTH versus using the provided one?

Seems like an excessive additional cost.


----------



## JerryLeeds

It sounds fine without it ... I guess if you have dog hearing or are really young you might hear a difference side by side ... Don't sweat the hype . Besides once you get older your hearing won't be as good ...


----------



## Bruc3

JerryLeeds said:


> It sounds fine without it ... I guess if you have dog hearing or are really young you might hear a difference side by side ... Don't sweat the hype . Besides once you get older your hearing won't be as good ...



hehe...thats what I suspected. I am in my 30s and my hearing is not great so guess I won't hear a difference anyhow.


----------



## JerryLeeds

So what is everyone's thoughts on the massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC?

Right now I'm using a Modi Multibit ... Would the new dac above be an upgrade? 

I like the fact that it would be a matching case to the MCTH


----------



## Odin412

JerryLeeds said:


> So what is everyone's thoughts on the massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC?
> 
> Right now I'm using a Modi Multibit ... Would the new dac above be an upgrade?



I have the Modi Multibit as well and I'm quite curious about the Airist RDAC. I haven't quite decided to pull the trigger yet, but I might just out of curiosity since I've never owned a real R-2R DAC.


----------



## Dnguyen926

Same for me. They make quite a nice so I'm tempted to pull the trigger.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I just pulled the trigger ...


----------



## Zachik

JerryLeeds said:


> So what is everyone's thoughts on the massdrop Airist Audio R-2R DAC?
> 
> Right now I'm using a Modi Multibit ... Would the new dac above be an upgrade?
> 
> I like the fact that it would be a matching case to the MCTH





Odin412 said:


> I have the Modi Multibit as well and I'm quite curious about the Airist RDAC. I haven't quite decided to pull the trigger yet, but I might just out of curiosity since I've never owned a real R-2R DAC.



MY PERSONAL opinion:
Massdrop RDAC is at (or very close to) the Gumby level. Definitely better than Mimby (Modi MultiBit).

I did not A/B Mimby and RDAC directly, but I did A/B my Metrum Amethyst vs. RDAC directly - and they're very close! At least using LCX and CTH (both from Massdrop as well).

Hope that is helpful


----------



## Dnguyen926

Zachik said:


> MY PERSONAL opinion:
> Massdrop RDAC is at (or very close to) the Gumby level. Definitely better than Mimby (Modi MultiBit).
> 
> I did not A/B Mimby and RDAC directly, but I did A/B my Metrum Amethyst vs. RDAC directly - and they're very close! At least using LCX and CTH (both from Massdrop as well).
> ...


So what you're saying is it'll be better than my bimby D: Why you do this? My wallet will make you an enemy...


----------



## Zachik

Dnguyen926 said:


> So what you're saying is it'll be *better than my bimby* D: Why you do this? My wallet will make you an enemy...


IMHO, yes!
Keep in mind that in general, amps make bigger difference / impact than DACs in the audio chain.


----------



## ohsigmachi

JerryLeeds said:


> I just pulled the trigger ...





Zachik said:


> IMHO, yes!
> Keep in mind that in general, amps make bigger difference / impact than DACs in the audio chain.



You guys are going to make me pull the trigger on the R-DAC AND the CTH! I guess I'll be sleeping on the couch for a while...


----------



## Zachik

ohsigmachi said:


> You guys are going to make me pull the trigger on the R-DAC AND the CTH! I guess *I'll be sleeping on the couch for a while*...


Small price to pay...


----------



## Tuneslover

DavidA said:


> I can answer half of your question: For T1gen1 I'd never recommend / consider the O2/ODAC since its always been a bit on the bright side and with most of the headphone I tried it with a bit thin and hollow sounding.  The Valhalla2 is great with some of the darker/warmer headphones like the HD650 and Nighthawk but for most other headphones its a bit on the dry thin side of neutral to me and it doesn't seem to respond to tube rolling like other amps.
> 
> I've only spent 2 hours at a friends house using her CTH and even from the short time liked it more than the either O2/ODAC or Valhalla2, just a more full and musical sounding amp to me but it was just a touch bright sounding with the HD700 and HD800 IMO.  Didn't get to try the CTH with a T1gen1 since I gave mine to my son a few months ago.



How would you compare the CTH to the Ember?


----------



## Mark Bajkowski

Well, I am rather pissed about the second-hand CTH+SDAC I purchased. Although I am happy with a significant sound profile improvement I've got in my setup after replacing the default EH 6922 it came with, my issue is the Massdrop's warranty. I do understand the policy excluding warranty transfers but, for the life of me, I do not understand why the obvious manufacturer's defect (specifically, the volume pot creating scratchy noise on the left channel reported by so many users) is excluded. Not covering manufacturer's defects under a transferable portion of warranty is not only not standing behind the quality of the products but clearly not caring about it.


----------



## techboy (Jun 28, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> How would you compare the CTH to the Ember?



I have both. Ember is way more musical, far more powerful and has much better transients. On the other hand the CTH doesn’t have the slight haze that the Ember has, is slightly more articulate. But the ember also has a bigger soundstage and is way more engaging.

Honestly, for my main amp, id buy the Ember at $500 instead of the CTH at $250 even if I were to take out a loan.

The CTH is a good amp. But the Ember has certain strengths in opposite areas that really make up for a far more enjoyable experience.

In terms of technicalities the CTH might be a hair better, but it isn’t really anywhere near as musical or enjoyable. And I’m not even sure which of the two is better technically, their strengths are complimentary.

I consider CTH to be like an improved Magni 3, far smoother, way bigger soundstage, but slightly less engaging than the Magni 3. 

The CTH sounds very close to being a solid state. It doesn’t sound like a hybrid at all. Just a tinge of hybridness there. 

The Magni 3 is a steal at $99. So I’d definitely say spending an additional $150 for the CTH makes sense because of the slightly smoother sound with a much larger soundstage. Apart from that it isn’t better than the Magni 3. Both are very close to SS sound.


----------



## elwappo99

Mark Bajkowski said:


> Well, I am rather pissed about the second-hand CTH+SDAC I purchased. Although I am happy with a significant sound profile improvement I've got in my setup after replacing the default EH 6922 it came with, my issue is the Massdrop's warranty. I do understand the policy excluding warranty transfers but, for the life of me, I do not understand why the obvious manufacturer's defect (specifically, the volume pot creating scratchy noise on the left channel reported by so many users) is excluded. Not covering manufacturer's defects under a transferable portion of warranty is not only not standing behind the quality of the products but clearly not caring about it.



Ouch sorry to hear that. Who did you buy it from? You should really give them a hassle for selling a product with such an issue.


----------



## kevin gilmore

scratchy noises that come from turning the volume pot always mean that there is DC feeding the pot. So there is something systemic wrong with the SDAC portion.


----------



## Mark Bajkowski (Jun 28, 2018)

> scratchy noises that come from turning the volume pot always mean that there is DC feeding the pot. So there is something systemic wrong with the SDAC portion.



That is a very important point which I was unaware and I probably need to consider a couple of other points - besides a normal use, I also use CTH+SDAC as A-class preamp followed by passive pot for -6db output adjustment.:
1) On the plus side, the DC offset could be disregarded if does not affect DAC output and I can live with the scratchy noise especially because I do not use CTH+SDAC pot too often. On the minus side (as your comment I think indirectly implies as well), I've read somewhere that those "scratchy" CTH+SDAC, after Massdrop repairs them, seem to sound cleaner.
2) On a plus side, I A/B-compared SDAC with HTR II+ and do not hear any aural problem with this SDAC.
3) On the plus side, my main objection of CTH+SDAC sound profile, which is a way too soft transient response, was improved greatly by replacing the default EH 6922, it came with, with a 1976 tube.

I am definitely considering a return of this CTH+SDAC. In short, I am a victim of my own curiosity when I came across "Massdrop" listings on the shady site called www.blinq.com - not to mention their outrageously erroneous listings! At least I know now where those Massdrop's rejects go - LOL.


----------



## elwappo99

Mark Bajkowski said:


> That is a very important point which I was unaware and I probably need to consider a couple of other points - besides a normal use, I also use CTH+SDAC as A-class preamp followed by passive pot for -6db output adjustment.:
> 1) On the plus side, the DC offset could be disregarded if does not affect DAC output and I can live with the scratchy noise especially because I do not use CTH+SDAC pot too often. On the minus side (as your comment I think indirectly implies as well), I've read somewhere that those "scratchy" CTH+SDAC, after Massdrop repairs them, seem to sound cleaner.
> 2) On a plus side, I A/B-compared SDAC with HTR II+ and do not hear any aural problem with this SDAC.
> 3) On the plus side, my main objection of CTH+SDAC sound profile, which is a way too soft transient response, was improved greatly by replacing the default EH 6922, it came with, with a 1976 tube.
> ...





I'm in the middle of a back to back order fiasco with blinq.com myself. I strongly urge everyone not to buy from them. I also ordered the CTH from them. It was between drops and they offered me a coupon, so I also decided to try them out. When the box arrived, it was clear they were selling Massdrop's returned products that were not being tested or fixed. I was sure my unit was not tested, because:

1. It didn't have a tube .... seriously.... there was no tube
2. I also had a volume pot that was so scratchy unless you had it at the 12 o'clock position you couldn't get any sound out of it. 

Is there an active Massdrop rep on head-fi that can confirm they're just shipping blinq they're returns? I think they should be aware that it seems like a lot of these units are making it out into the wild with multiple issues, and it reflects poorly on them. @WillBright @CEE TEE 

@Mark Bajkowski it sounds like your pot needs cleaned with Deoxit. If you're not sure how to do it, I can take some pictures he help.


----------



## WillBright

elwappo99 said:


> Is there an active Massdrop rep on head-fi that can confirm they're just shipping blinq they're returns? I think they should be aware that it seems like a lot of these units are making it out into the wild with multiple issues, and it reflects poorly on them. @WillBright



Hey there, blinq purchases inventory from "jobbers", people/companies that buy from inventory liquidators and electronic repair centers, generally by weight. I dont know if that's all they do, but we've seen our products show up a few times over the last few years. 

We're not involved with the sale of these units and we've taken efforts to stop this because of the confusing association with blinq's customer experience. Unfortunately, we have limited recourse, and it's generally 1-2 units (got lost in the mail, recycled accidentally, etc) so we've yet to find a good solution. 

I do not reccomend purchasing valuable things on blinq. Massdrop.com is the only retailer of Massdrop Made products today.

Sorry for your experience, we're working to get more Massdrop Made products in stock so theres not such a wait between drops.


----------



## elwappo99

WillBright said:


> Hey there, blinq purchases inventory from "jobbers", people/companies that buy from inventory liquidators and electronic repair centers, generally by weight. I dont know if that's all they do, but we've seen our products show up a few times over the last few years.
> 
> We're not involved with the sale of these units and we've taken efforts to stop this because of the confusing association with blinq's customer experience. Unfortunately, we have limited recourse, and it's generally 1-2 units (got lost in the mail, recycled accidentally, etc) so we've yet to find a good solution.
> 
> ...



Will - Thanks for taking the time to write up a clear and detailed response. FWIW, I always received excellent customer support from Massdrop directly. Your response kicked me off the fence and and I grabbed at HD58X




 


I agree and would advise everyone to stay away from blinq for any purchase. It wasn't until after I ordered from blinq I found a lot of negative reviews. A common example is a "bait and switch" where people had ordered $1200 laptops and gotten ones worth $300. I placed and order and half of it was missing. Their support team basically told me they don't believe me and they're not going to do anything.


----------



## UNOE

WillBright said:


> Hey there, blinq purchases inventory from "jobbers", people/companies that buy from inventory liquidators and electronic repair centers, generally by weight. I dont know if that's all they do, but we've seen our products show up a few times over the last few years.
> 
> We're not involved with the sale of these units and we've taken efforts to stop this because of the confusing association with blinq's customer experience. Unfortunately, we have limited recourse, and it's generally 1-2 units (got lost in the mail, recycled accidentally, etc) so we've yet to find a good solution.
> 
> ...


I ordered a Carbon X from blinq and was sent a CTH.  I'm returning the CTH now to blinq for refund.  I wonder if someone ordered a CTH was sent at Carbon X.


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## WillBright (Jun 29, 2018)

UNOE said:


> I ordered a Carbon X from blinq and was sent a CTH.  I'm returning the CTH now to blinq for refund.  I wonder if someone ordered a CTH was sent at Carbon X.



Hah possibly. Not to disparage blinq, but it doesn't seem like accurately representing the product is a top priority. I found this searching on blinq, not sure what the purchaser should expect:















elwappo99 said:


> Will - Thanks for taking the time to write up a clear and detailed response. FWIW, I always received excellent customer support from Massdrop directly. Your response kicked me off the fence and and I grabbed at HD58X



Glad to hear about your positive experience and thanks for supporting the HD58X! We worked for a long time on that product, trying to achieve the sound signature we originally intended. It was disappointing that we had to launch with the version we did last November but Axel and Ronja at Sennheiser did great work with us between then and now to ensure we shipped the best product we could. Don't mean to derail the thread with HD58X discussion, just top of mind right now.


----------



## jasonho

Is this normal ?


----------



## Mark Bajkowski

> it sounds like your pot needs to be cleaned with Deoxit



Thanks, I definitely will give Deoxit a try if I keep the unit which might be unavoidable after what I read about Blinq "refund policy" run-arounds: http://caig.com/2018/04/05/deoxit-d5-instructional-video-1-cleaning-pots/


----------



## Mark Bajkowski

As for Blinq, per their own chat and phone support, their clients should expect nothing specific because they ship "from a warehouse at a different location and do not have a way to check what they ship". As for Massdrop, are they really so desperate to sell their unrepairable units "by the weight" to shady vendors like Blinq without removing "Massdrop" logo?


----------



## mrjimmybob

jasonho said:


> Is this normal ?



What seems to be the problem ? or what does not look nornal to you ?

Here is mine.


----------



## jasonho

mrjimmybob said:


> What seems to be the problem ? or what does not look nornal to you ?
> 
> Here is mine.



The top part of the tube turn black after 1 day of my listening, i was wondering if I did something wrong (eg plug in the tube wrongly, or I connect to the wrong power supply). 

Is it signs of burnt out?


----------



## runeight

It looks to me that the tube is not fully seated into the socket and there may be a crack in the base of the tube possibly due to insertion force.


----------



## jasonho

runeight said:


> It looks to me that the tube is not fully seated into the socket and there may be a crack in the base of the tube possibly due to insertion force.



Hi, how can I determine if the tube if fully seated?    Currently, its plug into the socket quite firmly and i have been burning the amp for more than 50 hours, not sure if there's anything that I should be doing to make sure it's working properly.   Thanks!


----------



## geoffalter11 (Jul 2, 2018)

jasonho said:


> Hi, how can I determine if the tube if fully seated?    Currently, its plug into the socket quite firmly and i have been burning the amp for more than 50 hours, not sure if there's anything that I should be doing to make sure it's working properly.   Thanks!




I have noticed 2 things with this amp. First, the tube is pretty difficult to put in. It feels very delicate and tight. Second, if the tube is glowing, it is working. If the tube isn't, it won't play


----------



## geoffalter11

jasonho said:


> Hi, how can I determine if the tube if fully seated?    Currently, its plug into the socket quite firmly and i have been burning the amp for more than 50 hours, not sure if there's anything that I should be doing to make sure it's working properly.   Thanks!



I have noticed a couple things with this amp. First, the tube is delicate and doesn't fit easily into the socket. Second, if it is glowing it is working. If it isn't, the amp won't play.


----------



## runeight

Yes. Tube is a little tight. I suggest you pull the tube out and inspect the glass around the pins. See if any pins are bent. Look down at the socket and make sure the tangs are all open and centered. Then carefully insert tube again. If the silver getter at the top shows any signs of turning white the glass is cracked somewhere.


----------



## JerryLeeds

The original tube that came with the AMP was a little rough to put in. The pins were a little bent/miss alligned before insertion. After some listening I decided to upgrade to the Gold version of the same company ... I did this because I had a pair on hand already. I feel that the gold version was/is a little better than stock.

Since things were on sale at tubemonger ... I picked up one of these ...

Amperex 6922 E88CC USA - MINT NOS NIB 1970 Gold Pin Large Halo Getter - Lewis and Kaufman Label Los Gatos - Made in USA

I don't know if it is going to make much of a difference, since the buzz with this amp is that tube rolling doesn't make a big difference.


----------



## Dnguyen926

Hi guys, so I plugged my CTH in yesterday and the tube made a loud popped. The topped turned smokey grey so I turned it off and tried to remove the tube but it cracked and broke. Do you guys have any ideal what happened and is the amp okay?


----------



## runeight

It is likely that you cracked the tube base when you inserted it. The glass turned white because the silver getter absorbed air. And by then the envelope at the base was prob weak enough that it broke apart when you removed the tube. Contact MD.


----------



## Tuneslover

runeight said:


> It is likely that you cracked the tube base when you inserted it. The glass turned white because the silver getter absorbed air. And by then the envelope at the base was prob weak enough that it broke apart when you removed the tube. Contact MD.



Seems like an odd design that appears to be causing issues for owners.  Seeing how the tube seats so far into the amp why doesn't Massdrop insert the tube into the amp and special protect the tube when packing and cartoning the amp?  This way the owner doesn't need to try and ensure that the pins line up precisely when inserting the tube.  The other option would be to include a tube extender so that the tube sits fully outside of the amp so that the user can properly see the pin holes when inserting a tube.


----------



## Marlowe

Tuneslover said:


> Seems like an odd design that appears to be causing issues for owners.  Seeing how the tube seats so far into the amp why doesn't Massdrop insert the tube into the amp and special protect the tube when packing and cartoning the amp?  This way the owner doesn't need to try and ensure that the pins line up precisely when inserting the tube.  The other option would be to include a tube extender so that the tube sits fully outside of the amp so that the user can properly see the pin holes when inserting a tube.


Frankly, I don't see the difficulty. I had no trouble looking at the socket, seeing how the pins lined up, and inserting the tube successfully in a few seconds after feeling around to get the pins seated. Admittedly, I have two OTL tube amps, and done tube rolling on both, so I've had a lot of practice. (Though that's tempered by the fact that I've been a klutz my entire life and, since I'm two months from 65, my naturally poor dexterity is currently at an ebb.) I doubt tube extenders (better known as socket savers) would really really help. I used socket savers (for aesthetic reasons) on the Schiit Valhalla 2, which sinks the tubes even lower in the chassis than the CTH; it really didn't make inserting the tubes any easier or harder. (Though getting the socket savers seated was harder than inserting the tube; at least once, I had a socket saver rolling around inside the amp.)

BTW, I've had the CTH for about ten days and am quite happy with it. Though it's not night night and day, I think I prefer it over the Valhalla 2. I'll do a little A/B testing after I fully burn in the CTH (I'm around 50-60 hours on it), but it appears to have a little more bass impact, better imaging, and a slightly wider soundstage. What's really amazing is how cool it runs. After having it on for hours, the chassis is barely warm and the tube, while warmer, can easily be held without injury. Grasping the tubes during operation of the Valhalla 2 or the Little Dot MK III would result in a quick trip to the emergency room.


----------



## Dnguyen926

runeight said:


> It is likely that you cracked the tube base when you inserted it. The glass turned white because the silver getter absorbed air. And by then the envelope at the base was prob weak enough that it broke apart when you removed the tube. Contact MD.


ahh I see. Thank you for your help, I already contacted MD just currently waiting on a reply.


----------



## greenkiwi

@Marlowe  my guess is that some of the tubes/ sockets require more force than usual. And or something about inserting while only being able to hold the top 3/4" of the tube is causing cracking at the base. Or maybe it's just the normal failure rate but people aren't expecting it. 

I had one and had the exact same problem. And I've had tube amps for quite a long time and never had any issue.


----------



## lumohomo06

Does this work for Grado series? Thanks.


----------



## buke9

lumohomo06 said:


> Does this work for Grado series? Thanks.


Do you mean does the amp work with Grados?  The answer would be yes but how well would be up to you. Have the RS-1’s and think the CTH does just fine. Grados are going to be bright and the CTH will not calm that down much. To me not sibilant but bright with good bass response and decent detail and soundstage.


----------



## lumohomo06

buke9 said:


> Do you mean does the amp work with Grados?  The answer would be yes but how well would be up to you. Have the RS-1’s and think the CTH does just fine. Grados are going to be bright and the CTH will not calm that down much. To me not sibilant but bright with good bass response and decent detail and soundstage.



I see, thanks.  I guess I will find a warmer amp for Grados.


----------



## Hansotek

lumohomo06 said:


> I see, thanks.  I guess I will find a warmer amp for Grados.



Another one of Cavalli’s designs, the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Spark ($99, due for release in October) is a little warmer and perfectly balanced for Grados, IMO.


----------



## cobyatch

Just got my CTH in and loving how it sounds with the TH-X00 PHs. Excited to hear how they will sound after breaking in and how they'll sound with my 6XXs.

On another note, I am getting some constant static in the left channel. I've checked my connections and all seems fine. Is this something I can expect to go away after the tubes break in?


----------



## buke9

cobyatch said:


> Just got my CTH in and loving how it sounds with the TH-X00 PHs. Excited to hear how they will sound after breaking in and how they'll sound with my 6XXs.
> 
> On another note, I am getting some constant static in the left channel. I've checked my connections and all seems fine. Is this something I can expect to go away after the tubes break in?


 For the 6xx’s it is not better than a Bottlehead Crack but it is very good with them. For the tube it might burn off but usually that would happen pretty quick like 10 or so minutes I would think. Those tubes are cheap so maybe pick one up or try to get Massdrop to send you a new one. They used to be horrible on customer service hope they have gotten better. Took me 4 months to get my money back on a defective pair of earphones back in 2015.


----------



## cobyatch

buke9 said:


> For the 6xx’s it is not better than a Bottlehead Crack but it is very good with them. For the tube it might burn off but usually that would happen pretty quick like 10 or so minutes I would think. Those tubes are cheap so maybe pick one up or try to get Massdrop to send you a new one. They used to be horrible on customer service hope they have gotten better. Took me 4 months to get my money back on a defective pair of earphones back in 2015.



Thanks will go ahead and contact them if it persists, hopefully within the next few days the static disappears.

The Crack was definitely on my list but I felt that the CTH was a better introduction to tube amps since it would work with most of my current headphones and is ready to go instead of a kit. Will probably be getting that one next once I have the itch for another project and have more headphones that are tube-worthy haha.


----------



## buke9

cobyatch said:


> Thanks will go ahead and contact them if it persists, hopefully within the next few days the static disappears.
> 
> The Crack was definitely on my list but I felt that the CTH was a better introduction to tube amps since it would work with most of my current headphones and is ready to go instead of a kit. Will probably be getting that one next once I have the itch for another project and have more headphones that are tube-worthy haha.


 The Crack does like higher impedance cans for sure. The CTH is a very good all around amp for $249 a bargain.


----------



## JerryLeeds

cobyatch said:


> Just got my CTH in and loving how it sounds with the TH-X00 PHs. Excited to hear how they will sound after breaking in and how they'll sound with my 6XXs.
> 
> On another note, I am getting some constant static in the left channel. I've checked my connections and all seems fine. Is this something I can expect to go away after the tubes break in?



I had an issue like that when I first set things up ... I tracked it down to a triplite line conditioner ... once removed ...  No move funky sounds for me ... Also changed the stock tube ...


----------



## cobyatch

JerryLeeds said:


> I had an issue like that when I first set things up ... I tracked it down to a triplite line conditioner ... once removed ...  No move funky sounds for me ... Also changed the stock tube ...



Will give that a try! I do have it plugged into a surge protector at the moment so hopefully directly to the wall will work better. Also, what tube did you change to? Not sure if my wallets ready to try tube rolling haha but I've heard the stock tube is already pretty good.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold version ... About $10 USD more than stock


----------



## Zachik

JerryLeeds said:


> Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold version ... About $10 USD more than stock


Any noticeable difference in sound?
Some have claimed that tube rolling on CTH makes no sense due to no audible difference...


----------



## JerryLeeds

Well my original tube that came from massdrop was ok .. but it wasn't of great quality ... I have a few other sets of tubes for use with another amp .. so I just picked the extra gold one I had on hand .. haven't tried any others yet .. But to me it is a better


----------



## JerryLeeds

Helpful hack ... I used a silver crayon to fill in the volume knob's dimple indicator ...


----------



## Bruc3

Hi guys,

I currently got a HD650 paired with a NFB 11.28 and it sounds wonderful.

But all these positive reviews with the CTH + HD650 pairing has got me real curious.

Does anyone have experience with both the NFB 11 and CTH that can chime in? Specifically better if you had it paired with HD650.


----------



## Roscoeiii

JerryLeeds said:


> Helpful hack ... I used a silver crayon to fill in the volume knob's dimple indicator ...


Crayons are always the answer.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Anyone notice that the RCA inputs seem a tiny bit smaller? I have a short set of BJ cables ... they seem a bit loose on the CTH ... Flipped cables around with the same result ... The DAC end connects firmly


----------



## Marlowe

JerryLeeds said:


> Anyone notice that the RCA inputs seem a tiny bit smaller? I have a short set of BJ cables ... they seem a bit loose on the CTH ... Flipped cables around with the same result ... The DAC end connects firmly


I'm using a one foot length of Blue Jeans RCA cables to connect the CTH to Mimby. The connection is nicely tight on both ends. In order to burn in the amp and tube, the first couple of weeks I had the amp, I was moving it daily between my music setup (where it now stays) and my TV (where I have a short run Monoprice RCA cable even tighter than the Blue Jeans connected to a second Mimby); the connection remained snug.


----------



## neogeosnk

Does anyone know if you can use an adapter and use the:  General Electric (GE) 5654.  I don't want to blow it up.


----------



## someyoungguy

I've got the same problem of the scratchy volume pot that's been mentioned in this thread a few times. I see other comments that Deoxit is the way to go to fix this. I presume you just use the screws at the back of the CTH to open up the case, then on the inner side of the volume pot is a potentiometer or similar, and you inject some Deoxit into the potentiometer, then turn the volume pot to clean it out? Is this what others have done?


----------



## Tuneslover

someyoungguy said:


> I've got the same problem of the scratchy volume pot that's been mentioned in this thread a few times. I see other comments that Deoxit is the way to go to fix this. I presume you just use the screws at the back of the CTH to open up the case, then on the inner side of the volume pot is a potentiometer or similar, and you inject some Deoxit into the potentiometer, then turn the volume pot to clean it out? Is this what others have done?



Seems to me that requiring the use of deoxit or equivalent intervention on a relatively new product is fairly concerning.


----------



## Marlowe (Jul 16, 2018)

neogeosnk said:


> Does anyone know if you can use an adapter and use the:  General Electric (GE) 5654.  I don't want to blow it up.


I'd be interested in this question as well since I have Tung-Sol 2C51s with an adapter in my Valhalla 2 (which uses 6922s) and also have a couple of cheap but pretty decent GE 5670s (same tube type). Since I haven't seen any discussion of this, I've just assumed the answer was no. (Though as a practical matter, I think it would be a real PITA to get the adapter seated in the CTH. It wasn't that easy, at least for non-dexterous me, to get it into the Valhalla 2 properly and the single small opening in the CTH looks even more difficult.)


----------



## GuddoggEli

Marlowe said:


> I'd be interested in this question as well since I have Tung-Sol 2C51s with an adapter in my Valhalla 2 (which uses 6922s) and also have a couple of cheap but pretty decent GE 5670s (same tube type). Since I haven't seen any discussion of this, I've just assumed the answer was no. (Though as a practical matter, I think it would be a real PITA to get the adapter seated in the CTH. It wasn't that easy, at least for non-dexterous me, to get it into the Valhalla 2 properly and the single small opening in the CTH looks even more difficult.)


Earlier in this thread (quite a bit) runeight (Alex Cavalli) gave some pretty specific cautionary examples of tube swapping.  It may not be a case of "blowing up" the CTH, but perhaps a voltage mismatch at the heater (or other plates) may introduce extreme distortion or drop volume or other problems.  I recommend you find that post.  It is very good to know.


----------



## Phantaminum

Marlowe said:


> I'd be interested in this question as well since I have Tung-Sol 2C51s with an adapter in my Valhalla 2 (which uses 6922s) and also have a couple of cheap but pretty decent GE 5670s (same tube type). Since I haven't seen any discussion of this, I've just assumed the answer was no. (Though as a practical matter, I think it would be a real PITA to get the adapter seated in the CTH. It wasn't that easy, at least for non-dexterous me, to get it into the Valhalla 2 properly and the single small opening in the CTH looks even more difficult.)



I've rolled 2c51s, 6n3Ps, and 6C8Gs for the past three months and haven't ran into an issue. Now saying that, it is my amp and it doesn't mean your amp won't take a dive. Keep in mind this is a "do at your own risk" and if the amp blows the up there's no warranty.

I will say that 6C8Gs do widen up the sound stage and provides a more holographic sound.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I bought this amp for this reason. You can use the 2c51 in it. As well as the 6C8G/with proper adapters. 


Marlowe said:


> I'd be interested in this question as well since I have Tung-Sol 2C51s with an adapter in my Valhalla 2 (which uses 6922s) and also have a couple of cheap but pretty decent GE 5670s (same tube type). Since I haven't seen any discussion of this, I've just assumed the answer was no. (Though as a practical matter, I think it would be a real PITA to get the adapter seated in the CTH. It wasn't that easy, at least for non-dexterous me, to get it into the Valhalla 2 properly and the single small opening in the CTH looks even more difficult.)


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi, does anyone have a phone number for Massdrop? I ordered a CTH two weeks ago, received a confirmation email for shipping with the proper address, but when I ran the tracking number it’s going to an old address.

I emailed their Customer Service 3x, and in-mailed Cee Tee and Will, all without a response.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I don't think they have a number. Try their Facebook page. 





Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hi, does anyone have a phone number for Massdrop? I ordered a CTH two weeks ago, received a confirmation email for shipping with the proper address, but when I ran the tracking number it’s going to an old address.
> 
> I emailed their Customer Service 3x, and in-mailed Cee Tee and Will, all without a response.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Guidostrunk said:


> I don't think they have a number. Try their Facebook page.



Thanks, I’ll give that a shot!


----------



## schwallman

i have bought a second genalex to replace another gold lion tube that i thought wasnt working correctly. both only play through one channel on the cth. both play fine on original diy 
cth


----------



## Phantaminum

schwallman said:


> i have bought a second genalex to replace another gold lion tube that i thought wasnt working correctly. both only play through one channel on the cth. both play fine on original diy
> cth



Troubleshoot by going through your chain. Unplug all cables and plug them back in. Try the cables on the original CTH and see if that fixes the issue. If you've gone through your chain I'd contact Massdrop for warranty repair/replacement.


----------



## schwallman

Phantaminum said:


> Troubleshoot by going through your chain. Unplug all cables and plug them back in. Try the cables on the original CTH and see if that fixes the issue. If you've gone through your chain I'd contact Massdrop for warranty repair/replacement.




This is a replacement cth. The first one just up and quit one day. It had a problem with the first gold lion i put in it. the gold lion worked fine in my original diy cth. So I got a replacement massdrop cth. original gold lion didnt work(one channel). So I bought another to see. New one does the same. plays fine in diy cth, one channel in new massdrop cth.


----------



## Phantaminum

schwallman said:


> This is a replacement cth. The first one just up and quit one day. It had a problem with the first gold lion i put in it. the gold lion worked fine in my original diy cth. So I got a replacement massdrop cth. original gold lion didnt work(one channel). So I bought another to see. New one does the same. plays fine in diy cth, one channel in new massdrop cth.



Could be the tube itself. Have any other tubes you could try instead of the Gold Lion?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

schwallman said:


> This is a replacement cth. The first one just up and quit one day. It had a problem with the first gold lion i put in it. the gold lion worked fine in my original diy cth. So I got a replacement massdrop cth. original gold lion didnt work(one channel). So I bought another to see. New one does the same. plays fine in diy cth, one channel in new massdrop cth.



How were you able to get any customer service out of Massdrop? I ordered my CTH on July 10th, received a confirmation email with the correct address, but when I received the email with the the tracking number, an old address was listed. 

I've sent at least 10 emails to a Customer Service, each time getting nothing back but a form letter. I also in-mailed Cee Tee and Will without a response.

Now it's been delivered to the wrong address and I'm trying to work with the local Post Office there to get it picked up and forwarded to me. 

I'm very pissed off, I've never had such bad service.


----------



## schwallman

Phantaminum said:


> Could be the tube itself. Have any other tubes you could try instead of the Gold Lion?


im guessing it is the tube, i see someone else was able to use the gold lion tube. I have others that work fine.


----------



## schwallman

Wildcatsare1 said:


> How were you able to get any customer service out of Massdrop? I ordered my CTH on July 10th, received a confirmation email with the correct address, but when I received the email with the the tracking number, an old address was listed.
> 
> I've sent at least 10 emails to a Customer Service, each time getting nothing back but a form letter. I also in-mailed Cee Tee and Will without a response.
> 
> ...




it took a few days to get a reply. then a few days for the guy to look into seeing if there was another cth to replace mine with. Few days later, it was here.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

schwallman said:


> it took a few days to get a reply. then a few days for the guy to look into seeing if there was another cth to replace mine with. Few days later, it was here.





schwallman said:


> it took a few days to get a reply. then a few days for the guy to look into seeing if there was another cth to replace mine with. Few days later, it was here.



I have been emailing them since July 13, with form letters being the only response, last time I'll by anything from them.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I have been emailing them since July 13, with form letters being the only response, last time I'll by anything from them.



@CEE TEE Would you have a different Massdrop contact that Wild can get ahold of? Thanks for any information.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Thank you for the assistance!


----------



## CEE TEE

Phantaminum said:


> @CEE TEE Would you have a different Massdrop contact that Wild can get ahold of? Thanks for any information.


@Wildcatsare1 - I am not aware of any in mail, did you PM me here?  PM me your details and I will take a look...


----------



## Bazirker (Jul 27, 2018)

My included 6922 tube popped, so looking for a replacement.  I've read a few people using the Gold Lion, any other recs?  I would enjoy a touch brighter, more energetic of a sound but am otherwise pretty happy.

Also, I should add a resolution to my drama from earlier in this thread when my 4 year-old busted my SDAC in my CTH.  Massdrop helped me come up with a fix, which I finally got time to work through and am up and running again.  Just wanted to give a shout out to their customer service!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Bazirker said:


> My included 6922 tube popped, so looking for a replacement.  I've read a few people using the Gold Lion, any other recs?  I would enjoy a touch brighter, more energetic of a sound but am otherwise pretty happy.
> 
> Also, I should add a resolution to my drama from earlier in this thread when my 4 year-old busted my SDAC in my CTH.  Massdrop helped me come up with a fix, which I finally got time to work through and am up and running again.  Just wanted to give a shout out to their customer service!



Personally, I love the Amperex Tubes, Bugle Boys, A Frame, with a preference for those manufactured in Holland.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 28, 2018)

Bazirker said:


> My included 6922 tube popped, so looking for a replacement.  I've read a few people using the Gold Lion, any other recs?  I would enjoy a touch brighter, more energetic of a sound but am otherwise pretty happy.
> 
> Also, I should add a resolution to my drama from earlier in this thread when my 4 year-old busted my SDAC in my CTH.  Massdrop helped me come up with a fix, which I finally got time to work through and am up and running again.  Just wanted to give a shout out to their customer service!



Try a PCC88 Tungsram. It almost has a tube sound but almost has a SS quality to it. Definitely will add more brightness. Found cheaply on eBay and it's a great tube.


----------



## Zachik

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Personally, I love the Amperex Tubes, Bugle Boys, A Frame, with a preference for those manufactured in Holland.





Phantaminum said:


> Try a PCC88 Tungsram. It almost has a tube sound but almost has a SS quality to it. Definitely will add more brightness. Found cheaply on eBay and it's a great tube.


Which tubes are recommended for people that want the CTH  to sound a bit more tubey with a nice bass slam?
I definitely do not want extra brightness - not a treble fan myself (but would appreciate extra bass...)


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Zachik said:


> Which tubes are recommended for people that want the CTH  to sound a bit more tubey with a nice bass slam?
> I definitely do not want extra brightness - not a treble fan myself (but would appreciate extra bass...)



Here’s a pretty good review of the 6922 family,
https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## Bazirker

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Here’s a pretty good review of the 6922 family,
> https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8



omg


----------



## Roll (Jul 30, 2018)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Here’s a pretty good review of the 6922 family,
> https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8



Thanks.

Another one to look at

http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-1/

http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/vacuum-tube-shootout-6dj8-types-part-2/


----------



## joeike

got some vintage radios from the 50s and 60s I'm going to have to start looking at the tubes in them thanks for the great info!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 30, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Which tubes are recommended for people that want the CTH  to sound a bit more tubey with a nice bass slam?
> I definitely do not want extra brightness - not a treble fan myself (but would appreciate extra bass...)



Without having to buy adapters I think a good tube would be a Voshkod 6N23P. It won't break the bank ($15 - $20 single) and the top can extend without it being bright.  Most Russian tubes have nice bass and slam. It'll take some time (100 hours) for the tube to finally settle in. Talk to AuditoryCanvas about buying a single. He's a great seller and tests everything that he receives.

It's hard to recommend some tubes in the MCTH since the changes are small when it comes to 6922 and equivalent tubes. My favorite are Amperex D-getter tubes that are around $250 a pair but they don't sound so hot in this amp.

Edit: Gold Lions  may be a great contender from others description but I've never heard them.


----------



## Bazirker

Got my Gold Lion, and let it sit in the amp running for 6 hours or so and am listening now.  My old tube blew so I can't A/B, but so far I'm happy with the sound.  I think it has just a hair more sparkle without taking much of a hit in terms of warmth or musicality.  I ordered a PCC88 tube too, so we'll give that a go too once it arrives.


----------



## Sharkhunter

Which amp of these would be a better pairing with HD800? CTH or LCX. I own a LCX now.


----------



## KaiserTK

I hope it's not a bad thing to use the XLR and SE output at the same time. 
It's much more convenient have fun with different headphones using the same music track this way. 
MCTH is definitely one of my favorite headphone amps that I've ever tried.


----------



## Phantaminum

KaiserTK said:


> I hope it's not a bad thing to use the XLR and SE output at the same time.
> It's much more convenient have fun with different headphones using the same music track this way.
> MCTH is definitely one of my favorite headphone amps that I've ever tried.



How's that working for you? From memory, someone mentioned that the amp would shutdown when they had both outputs being used. Could of just been his specific amp. I've never tried it on mine.


----------



## KaiserTK

Phantaminum said:


> How's that working for you? From memory, someone mentioned that the amp would shutdown when they had both outputs being used. Could of just been his specific amp. I've never tried it on mine.


It’s been fine with my 650s and 800s that I had plugged in this morning, but I don’t know the long-run consequences. 
At least the impedances are similar for both of those headphones.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't waste your time with 6922 tubes. Get yourself a e88cc to 6c8g adapter and 2 socket savers. Ken rad 6c8g , or my favorite, Tung-sol 6c8g. These tubes deliver exactly what you're looking for and then some. The soundstage is also massive on these tubes. 
Adapter= $15
Socket savers(bakelite)= $6 pair. Tubemonger savers $60 pair. The cheap ones work fine.
Ken rad 6c8g= about $20 shipped
Tung-sol = about $50 to $70 shipped.
So.. for around 40 bucks or less you can have the Ken rad setup that'll smoke all the 6922 tubes known to man. Lol.  


Zachik said:


> Which tubes are recommended for people that want the CTH  to sound a bit more tubey with a nice bass slam?
> I definitely do not want extra brightness - not a treble fan myself (but would appreciate extra bass...)


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Don't waste your time with 6922 tubes. Get yourself a e88cc to 6c8g adapter and 2 socket savers. Ken rad 6c8g , or my favorite, Tung-sol 6c8g. These tubes deliver exactly what you're looking for and then some. The soundstage is also massive on these tubes.
> Adapter= $15
> Socket savers(bakelite)= $6 pair. Tubemonger savers $60 pair. The cheap ones work fine.
> Ken rad 6c8g= about $20 shipped
> ...


Now, you got me interested in the ken rad option (tung sol just too pricey...)!
Can you please post links to reliable sources for adapter and $6 socket savers?
Also, any recommendation for place to order ken rad tube from? Or just roll the dice on eBay?


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Don't waste your time with 6922 tubes. Get yourself a e88cc to 6c8g adapter and 2 socket savers. Ken rad 6c8g , or my favorite, Tung-sol 6c8g. These tubes deliver exactly what you're looking for and then some. The soundstage is also massive on these tubes.
> Adapter= $15
> Socket savers(bakelite)= $6 pair. Tubemonger savers $60 pair. The cheap ones work fine.
> Ken rad 6c8g= about $20 shipped
> ...


Also, can you post a photo of the CTH with a 6c8g tube ? Doesn’t it look weird? Just curious...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's the adapter:
tiny.cc/7o5fwy

Here's the savers:
tiny.cc/7v5fwy

Here's the tubes:  (1 Ken rad/ 1JAN CHC)
tiny.cc/hz5fwy

It may look weird to some, but beauty is in the eye of the beerholder. 

I'll snap a pic when I get home in the morning.



Zachik said:


> Also, can you post a photo of the CTH with a 6c8g tube ? Doesn’t it look weird? Just curious...


----------



## Phantaminum (Aug 5, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Also, can you post a photo of the CTH with a 6c8g tube ? Doesn’t it look weird? Just curious...



Before you go down this road just know that you do so at your own risk. There’s a high possibility that MD will not cover your amp if it develops issues.

Now that’s behind us:

I personally enjoy the 6c8g tubes in this amp because of its expansive and holographic sound. I’d purchase one socket saver from Tube Monger. In case the socket saver ever wears out they’ll replace them free which is well worth the asking price. There’s already a horror story of the cheaper socket saver taking out a MCTH because of short caused by sloppy soldering.

Tubes:
1. Tung Sols - by far my favorite and most life like sounding. The mids are to die for.
2. RCA - Warm and slight roll off the top. Easy listening tube. Good bass but can sound tubby.
3. Sylvania - Consider this a baby Tung Sol. Sweet with less body.
4. Ken Rad - Powerful with tight bass and explosive. Linear but no boring. Great for orchestral music.
5. National Union - They are very linear with nothing standing out. I find them ok.

Pic:


----------



## Guidostrunk

I absolutely agree with the tubemonger savers. Even if it puts your budget closer to  $60/$65. Hard to beat their warranty and reliability. 


Phantaminum said:


> Before you go down this road just know that you do so at your own risk. There’s a high possibility that MD will not cover your amp if it develops issues.
> 
> Now that’s behind us:
> 
> ...


----------



## someyoungguy

Phantaminum said:


> Before you go down this road just know that you do so at your own risk. There’s a high possibility that MD will not cover your amp if it develops issues.
> 
> Now that’s behind us:
> 
> ...


Hmm that looks interesting! After all this talk of tube rolling I figured I should give it a go, this being my first amp with a tube in it and all. I have a 6922 Reflektor tube on the way, but this set up looks intriguing. 

If I may ask - what is the cap and cable for on the tube adapter that sits on top of the tube? I can’t think of any electrical function that could be providing...


----------



## Hansotek (Aug 5, 2018)

someyoungguy said:


> Hmm that looks interesting! After all this talk of tube rolling I figured I should give it a go, this being my first amp with a tube in it and all. I have a 6922 Reflektor tube on the way, but this set up looks intriguing.
> 
> If I may ask - what is the cap and cable for on the tube adapter that sits on top of the tube? I can’t think of any electrical function that could be providing...



It’s attached to the tube’s top cap. You can see the explanation of its electrical function here: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0062.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

Completes the circuit. 





someyoungguy said:


> Hmm that looks interesting! After all this talk of tube rolling I figured I should give it a go, this being my first amp with a tube in it and all. I have a 6922 Reflektor tube on the way, but this set up looks intriguing.
> 
> If I may ask - what is the cap and cable for on the tube adapter that sits on top of the tube? I can’t think of any electrical function that could be providing...


----------



## someyoungguy

Hansotek said:


> It’s attached to the tube’s top cap. You can see the explanation of its electrical function here: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0062.htm


Ah right, thanks. Never seen a tube with a connection on the top before.


----------



## jrhill

A 7193  is a single triode, not the usual double, and has 2 top caps like 'mickey mouse'  - some early tubes used them 

Phantom, what effect do those hi-freq filters (round 'things' on the cable) have on the sound?

Looks like I'll need the bigger 'tube protection frame' size from 'vtfc' for this - maybe the  CH-FM-50 that's for the EL34 will do?


----------



## Phantaminum

jrhill said:


> A 7193  is a single triode, not the usual double, and has 2 top caps like 'mickey mouse'  - some early tubes used them
> 
> Phantom, what effect do those hi-freq filters (round 'things' on the cable) have on the sound?
> 
> Looks like I'll need the bigger 'tube protection frame' size from 'vtfc' for this - maybe the  CH-FM-50 that's for the EL34 will do?



It was really just a try at trying to stop any rf pollution from getting in from some of the close by  electronics. Had my WAP and a desk fan that caused a little bit of trouble. Haven't heard anything after adding them on. I don't even think I need so many...just makes it look cool.


----------



## jrhill

Thanks for the info - have ordered a few bits and will try them out - I have gone a bit overboard with the linear power supply and am rather impressed with the amp's performance - this is the icing on top.


----------



## Shoomer

Mediahound said:


> Please be aware that this is not made by Cavalli. It's made by Massdrop by a China manufacturer with the Cavalli name being licensed, etc.


Do you have any evidence for that claim? If so please share it.


----------



## Mediahound

Shoomer said:


> Do you have any evidence for that claim? If so please share it.


It’s a known fact that pretty much everyone here knows already.


----------



## Shoomer

Mediahound said:


> It’s a known fact that pretty much everyone here knows already.


You saying "iIt’s a known fact" doesn't make it so. I could say it's a known fact that the moon is made of cheese. (The Moon is made of cheese by the way)

Evidence please, not just words.


----------



## Mediahound

Shoomer said:


> You saying "iIt’s a known fact" doesn't make it so. I could say it's a known fact that the moon is made of cheese. (The Moon is made of cheese by the way)
> 
> Evidence please, not just words.



Do your own research -



runeight said:


> Dear Friends,
> 
> It is with a heavy heart that I would like to inform everyone that Cavalli Audio will be closing its doors on October 31, 2017.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shoomer

Mediahound said:


> Do your own research -


All you have done is proved he is working with Massdropp. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Mediahound (Aug 6, 2018)

Shoomer said:


> All you have done is proved he is working with Massdropp. Nothing more, nothing less.


You’re  obviously clueless,  again, do you your own research -

“The Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X is made by Massdrop, a larger company covering many enthusiast communities & manufacturing in China”

From: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...k/1811438?utm_source=linkshare&referer=TAWMYL

 Massdrop in fact only manufactures in China.


----------



## Hansotek

Shoomer said:


> All you have done is proved he is working with Massdropp. Nothing more, nothing less.



@Shoomer - Alex Cavalli designed the amp, selected the components to be used and approved the final prototypes. Massdrop sources the Cavalli-approved parts, has them assembled in a factory in China according to Cavalli’s specs, and then markets, sells and distributes them. There’s no conspiracy here. It is a fairly straightforward manufacturing partnership. Many of Massdrop’s “X” series products are designed, manufactured and marketed in the same way.


----------



## schwallman

Guidostrunk said:


> Don't waste your time with 6922 tubes. Get yourself a e88cc to 6c8g adapter and 2 socket savers. Ken rad 6c8g , or my favorite, Tung-sol 6c8g. These tubes deliver exactly what you're looking for and then some. The soundstage is also massive on these tubes.
> Adapter= $15
> Socket savers(bakelite)= $6 pair. Tubemonger savers $60 pair. The cheap ones work fine.
> Ken rad 6c8g= about $20 shipped
> ...




link for the adapter please. im not finding the correct one with a search  e88cc to 6c8g adapter.


----------



## Phantaminum

schwallman said:


> link for the adapter please. im not finding the correct one with a search  e88cc to 6c8g adapter.



Tube Monger socket saver: 
http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo

6C8G to E88CC:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191554107223


----------



## techboy

Do 6SN7 tubes work on MCTH with the Garage adapter?


----------



## Phantaminum

techboy said:


> Do 6SN7 tubes work on MCTH with the Garage adapter?



It does not and will damage the amp.


----------



## Shoomer

Mediahound said:


> You’re  obviously clueless,  again, do you your own research -
> 
> “The Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X is made by Massdrop, a larger company covering many enthusiast communities & manufacturing in China”
> 
> ...



"Massdrop in fact only manufactures in China" ...So? I never said it wasn't. What exactly is your point? Oh, and the word you were looking for is 'manufactured'


----------



## Marlowe (Aug 6, 2018)

Shoomer said:


> "Massdrop in fact only manufactures in China" ...So? I never said it wasn't. What exactly is your point? Oh, and the word you were looking for is 'manufactured'


Actually, "manufactures" is perfectly correct here, since it is referring to ongoing manufacturing, not merely to past events. And since your initial point (to the extent you ever had one) was to determine Alex Cavalli's role in producing the CTH, and which as pointed out to at length you is well known and documented, why do you continue to post and make a fool of yourself?


----------



## Bazirker

Mediahound said:


> It’s a known fact that pretty much everyone here knows already.



This is dead wrong.  Dr. Cavalli himself has posted in this very thread on numerous occasions about the design of this amp, which he created collaboratively with Massdrop.  Stop trolling.


----------



## Phantaminum

Hansotek put it as succinctly as possible. Read his post and let’s move on.


----------



## dpump

Just a thought: Personally, if I was going to try a tube like the 6C8G I would remove the top panel and enlarge the hole so I could use just the E88CC to 6C8G adaptor. I don't like the idea of using 2 socket savers and then an adaptor myself; too many contact points. Since Cavalli really only recommends a 6922 or 6DJ8 tube, I assume that's the reason the stock tube opening was made as small as possible to discourage tube experimentation. Don't get me wrong, I like to try different tubes myself, but Cavalli has stated that the MCTH was designed for one tube type and doesn't have much headroom in the power supply to allow for experimentation with other tube types.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to roll tubes in this amp. Cavalli does not recommend the 6c8g. Only the tube supplied. 
It's really not that complicated. Either you give it a go, or don't. 
people who do. Will be greatly rewarded. Lol.


----------



## Mediahound (Aug 7, 2018)

Bazirker said:


> This is dead wrong.  Dr. Cavalli himself has posted in this very thread on numerous occasions about the design of this amp, which he created collaboratively with Massdrop.  Stop trolling.



What about this don’t you understand?



runeight said:


> This is totally my design (or, more accurately, redesign of the DIY CTH), licensed to Massdrop.


----------



## jrhill

Warming up a Siemens PCC88 - very different sound to the Russian 6H23 or the original EH6922 - I wonder how many hours they take to 'come good"?


----------



## Zachik

jrhill said:


> Warming up a Siemens PCC88 - very different sound to the Russian 6H23 or the original EH6922 - I wonder how many hours they take to 'come good"?


Never tried tube rolling on the CTH, yet, but people kept saying it makes little to no audible difference...
Are you saying the Siemens PCC88 does sound audibly different than stock tube? Would you say it is a small or very noticeable difference? (and what is difference between their sound signature?)


----------



## jrhill

A 'little to no audible difference' - Ah, it depends, sorry - familiar words?  

I'm using a modded HE400s with the CTH amplifier and the Ayre Acoustic QB-9 dac + the SOtM Server as the source - also use the AKG k701s and Senn 650s - the better linear power supply costs as much as the amp itself and makes a huge overall improvement (IMO, naturally!).

 The difference between the Siemens and the EH6922 (to me) is the 'air' and 'detail' - it seems to be a "lighter' sound and more dynamic - the bass is very clear - the tube has only about 5 hours use so far so the sound may change a bit yet -

IMO, the EH 6922 has a heavier lower mid sound that gives it a pronounced sense of rhythm but it's not as transparent - the Russian tube was similar.  I have a Mullard (or RCA, can't remember) that has a much thicker bass but blurred mids - I like a clear open overall sound with very clean bass 

I'm an inveterate fiddler so modding everything is an interest - if you're happy with the basic switcher supply and your source, the change in the tube will probably only produce a small change - it's a pretty well-sorted out piece of gear

 ...  all the best


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Never tried tube rolling on the CTH, yet, but people kept saying it makes little to no audible difference...
> Are you saying the Siemens PCC88 does sound audibly different than stock tube? Would you say it is a small or very noticeable difference? (and what is difference between their sound signature?)



There are differences but they're not as transparent as other hybrid or full tube amps. Even though they may make small changes it may be enough of a change to warrant the purchase. Just don't go crazy buying a Siemen's Cca or E188CC that costs half of the amp for a minor change.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> There are differences but they're not as transparent as other hybrid or full tube amps. Even though they may make small changes it may be enough of a change to warrant the purchase. Just don't go crazy buying a Siemen's Cca or E188CC that costs half of the amp for a minor change.


Even the Siemens PCC88 are not very cheap at approx. $100 / pair or $70 for 1...


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Even the Siemens PCC88 are not very cheap at approx. $100 / pair or $70 for 1...



Yeah, the 6922 and equivalent tubes have stabilized in price but have shot up in last few years. That's why I asked earlier in this thread about an adapter and 5670 tubes. The 5670 and equivalent tubes have a wider sound stage than the 6922s and are cheaper while still sounding great.

The biggest difference in sound came from the 6c8gs. Depending on your headphone, these tubes throw out a huge soundstage. It really gives you a taste of what a TOTL tube amp brings to the table at a reasonable price compared to higher end 6922s.

I've been using this combo since April and haven't ran into issue. This doesn't mean I may never run into issue by not listening to the Dr.Cavalli. For me the enjoyment outweighs the risks.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Yeah, the 6922 and equivalent tubes have stabilized in price but have shot up in last few years. That's why I asked earlier in this thread about an adapter and 5670 tubes. The 5670 and equivalent tubes have a wider sound stage than the 6922s and are cheaper while still sounding great.
> 
> The biggest difference in sound came from the 6c8gs. Depending on your headphone, these tubes throw out a huge soundstage. It really gives you a taste of what a TOTL tube amp brings to the table at a reasonable price compared to higher end 6922s.
> 
> I've been using this combo since April and haven't ran into issue. This doesn't mean I may never run into issue by not listening to the Dr.Cavalli. For me the enjoyment outweighs the risks.


So, if I am going to give it a try:
1. Do I need 1 or 2 socket savers? At some point couple pages ago I got confused by the mention of 2... was it because a seller was selling them in pairs, or do I need 2 to get sufficient elevation for the tube to fit?!
2. I recall your best / most recommended 6c8g was very pricey... what is your 2nd favorite? I definitely LOVE bass, and prefer smooth sound compared to hyper detailed. I like tubey sound!
3. I believe the eBay link to the adapter is sold out, and I do not want a cheap Chinese substitute that would fry my amp... any recommendation for active sellers? Does not have to be eBay...

Thanks!!


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> So, if I am going to give it a try:
> 1. Do I need 1 or 2 socket savers? At some point couple pages ago I got confused by the mention of 2... was it because a seller was selling them in pairs, or do I need 2 to get sufficient elevation for the tube to fit?!
> 2. I recall your best / most recommended 6c8g was very pricey... what is your 2nd favorite? I definitely LOVE bass, and prefer smooth sound compared to hyper detailed. I like tubey sound!
> 3. I believe the eBay link to the adapter is sold out, and I do not want a cheap Chinese substitute that would fry my amp... any recommendation for active sellers? Does not have to be eBay...
> ...



1. You only need one socket saver. That will give you enough height for the 6c8g adapter. You can go with one made from China, which is cheap, or preferably one from Tube Monger (recommended).

2. My favorite tube is the Tung-Sol and yes it's expensive compared to the other tubes. Instead grab a Ken-Rad, RCA, or Sylvania. Any of those tube NOS singles can be found from $15 to $40. For your requirements I'd suggest the RCAs. Give them minimum 40 hours of burn in so they can really show their chops.

3. The socket saver is what burned out the amp. Tube Monger socket savers are what I'd purchase. The 6c8g you'll have to get from China. I don't think anyone in the US makes them but I've purchased several adapters from this eBay seller without having any issues. 

Link to the 6c8g adapter: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191554107223


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> 2. My favorite tube is the Tung-Sol and yes it's expensive compared to the other tubes. Instead grab a Ken-Rad, RCA, or Sylvania. Any of those tube NOS singles can be found from $15 to $40. For your requirements I'd suggest the RCAs. Give them minimum 40 hours of burn in so they can really show their chops.


When looking for any of those tubes - what should I look for?!  Any specific years? Any specific getter? Would ANY RCA or Tung Sol or Ken-Rad do?
Long list of 6c8g on eBay.... Need something to focus my search


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> When looking for any of those tubes - what should I look for?!  Any specific years? Any specific getter? Would ANY RCA or Tung Sol or Ken-Rad do?
> Long list of 6c8g on eBay.... Need something to focus my search



I'll shoot you a PM later today.


----------



## Ameloblast

Anyone coming from Schiit Vali 2? Is this a significant upgrade and what are the sonic differences? thanks!


----------



## Ameloblast

TheGame21x said:


> Welp, as soon as I saw this dropped as a daily with immediate shipping, I couldn't help myself. Ugh. My wallet is going to hate me. Looking forward to comparing it with my Vali 2!



What are your thoughts on the CTH compared to Vali 2? thinking of getting the CTH and was wondering if its a significant enough upgrade.


----------



## imparanoic

Just wondering, is the 6922 valve easy to replace? Readily available?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely. 





imparanoic said:


> Just wondering, is the 6922 valve easy to replace? Readily available?


----------



## Phantaminum

imparanoic said:


> Just wondering, is the 6922 valve easy to replace? Readily available?



Plenty of 6922/E88CC/6DJ8/ECC88/PCC88/6n23p tubes available on eBay and new production tubes from Electro Harmonix, JJs, Gold Lions etc. You should be fine and these tubes have an average life span of 8,500 - 10,000 hours.


----------



## imparanoic

Phantaminum said:


> Plenty of 6922/E88CC/6DJ8/ECC88/PCC88/6n23p tubes available on eBay and new production tubes from Electro Harmonix, JJs, Gold Lions etc. You should be fine and these tubes have an average life span of 8,500 - 10,000 hours.


Thanks for the info


----------



## TheGame21x

Ameloblast said:


> What are your thoughts on the CTH compared to Vali 2? thinking of getting the CTH and was wondering if its a significant enough upgrade.



Honestly, I didn't compare it much with the Vali 2 as I sold it off about a week after the CTH arrived. From memory, I recall the CTH being a bit more detailed and expansive in its presentation than the Vali 2. It's not a huge difference but it was significant enough that I felt the price difference was justified.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

For anyone interested, I’ve placed my CTH with the stock tube, plus an Amperex 6922 “A-Frame” up for sale (too many amps, not enough time).


----------



## Bmxant (Aug 19, 2018)

I just received mine and it sounds great paired with my X00 Ebony's, but it totally neutered the bass .

So....

Pros: Clean sound

Cons: Channel imbalance and poor bass.


----------



## alchemist23

Mine’s up for sale too on U.K. eBay


----------



## Marlowe

Bmxant said:


> I just received mine and it sounds great paired with my X00 Ebony's, but it totally neutered the bass .
> 
> So....
> 
> ...


While subtle, I found the CTH (stock tube) gave me a bit more bass with the HD700 and HD6XX. Though of course both are open backs, though with good bass for the type, and the synergies may be different.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Did you get yours new? I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. Anemic bass, and narrow 2 dimensional soundstage. The fix: 6c8g adapter with Tung-sol or Philco 6c8g, or 6n3 adapter and any of the 5670/2c51/396a tubes. 
Cheers!


Bmxant said:


> I just received mine and it sounds great paired with my X00 Ebony's, but it totally neutered the bass .
> 
> So....
> 
> ...


----------



## Bmxant

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you get yours new? I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. Anemic bass, and narrow 2 dimensional soundstage. The fix: 6c8g adapter with Tung-sol or Philco 6c8g, or 6n3 adapter and any of the 5670/2c51/396a tubes.
> Cheers!


Yeah, brand new. It's a shame that my 9 year old Xonar STX demolishes this thing in bass quantity. Anemic is a good word, maybe even an understatement. Imaging and vocal clarity are solid though, but if I just wanted that I would have went with a pair of HD 650's.

$250 was the absolute most I could spend, so any upgrades need to wait. I am concerned about the channel imbalance though, so I wrote Massdrop support to see what they have to say.

@Marlowe That's interesting, the 6XX are supposed to be amazing with the CTH though, so I guess this amp has a better synergy with those.


----------



## runeight

How many hours does the amp have at this point?


----------



## Bmxant

runeight said:


> How many hours does the amp have at this point?



28 hours or so.


----------



## runeight

Hmm. You mau want to give it another 25 to 75. But at this point there should be some decent bass. There is also a channel imbalance?


----------



## runeight

Also what is your source?


----------



## Bmxant (Aug 20, 2018)

runeight said:


> Also what is your source?



Appreciate the response.

CTH to Xonar STX via RCA paired with X00 Ebony headphones. Windows volume at 100, zero distortion or background noise.

Right side seems a tad bit louder and seems to even out with the left channel at 100 volume and right channel at 80-90 volume, but without measurement tools it's too hard to tell. It's hard to notice at louder volumes, but at a listening volume where I can hear others talking around me it's noticeable.

Other than the issues, detail and clarity are unreal, it's really brings certain genres to life.


----------



## Marlowe (Aug 20, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. Anemic bass, and narrow 2 dimensional soundstage. The fix: 6c8g adapter with Tung-sol or Philco 6c8g, or 6n3 adapter and any of the 5670/2c51/396a tubes.



Although I am reasonably happy with the stock tube so far (I've had it a couple of months and it's fully burned in) I do have the adapters with Tung-Sol 2C51s in my Valhalla 2 (as well as four cheap 5670s in a drawer). I've been hesitant to put these in the CTH, but since several people report using them, and none have reported the CTH blowing up, I'll probably give them a try at some point.



Bmxant said:


> @Marlowe That's interesting, the 6XX are supposed to be amazing with the CTH though, so I guess this amp has a better synergy with those.


I should have added a couple of things. First my comparison is primarily to the Valhalla 2, which sounds fine with the same headphones but I think the CTH sounds a bit better. Second, and obviously, this is subjective and relative to expectations, like everything in this hobby. In any event, I'm currently listening to the expanded version of The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads with the HD700 through the CTH and Tina Weymouth's terrific bass work sounds just great.


----------



## Bmxant

> I should have added a couple of things. First my comparison is primarily to the Valhalla 2, which sounds fine with the same headphones but I think the CTH sounds a bit better. Second, and obviously, this is subjective and relative to expectations, like everything in this hobby. In any event, I'm currently listening to the expanded version of The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads with the HD700 through the CTH and Tina Weymouth's terrific bass work sounds just great.



I checked out The Name of This Band is Talking Heads on Youtube and it really shines on my X00's as well. Things are starting to sound a little better nearing the 50 hour mark on the CTH, and honestly, even if I switch this out for a unit that has more bass, I think I'm going to miss the type of sound this thing produces. Of course I could always save for a Mojo or Grace, but that's pretty far in to the expensive territory.


----------



## someyoungguy

Bmxant said:


> I checked out The Name of This Band is Talking Heads on Youtube and it really shines on my X00's as well. Things are starting to sound a little better nearing the 50 hour mark on the CTH, and honestly, even if I switch this out for a unit that has more bass, I think I'm going to miss the type of sound this thing produces. Of course I could always save for a Mojo or Grace, but that's pretty far in to the expensive territory.


There’s often Mojos going in the for sale forum listings between 350-400 USD, so not too much more than the CTH these days.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. Anemic bass, and narrow 2 dimensional soundstage. The fix: 6c8g adapter with Tung-sol or Philco 6c8g, or 6n3 adapter and any of the 5670/2c51/396a tubes.
> Cheers!


After reading earlier discussion regarding retro-fitting the CTH with 6C8G tube - I got curious and decided to try it for myself.
Got the socket saver from Tube Monger, the adapter from a Chinese eBay seller, and RCA 6C8G tube (off eBay). The Chinese adapter finally arrived today - so I could take it for a spin...

Let me start by saying that I also own a Lyr3 and 15-20 tubes that I was rolling, and the differences (to MY non-golden ears) have been subtle.

So... Listened to the stock CTH tube for an hour, to get my brain remember how it sounds like, and swapped it out in favor of the new 6C8G RCA tube.

WOW!

W O W ! ! !

The difference was anything BUT subtle - very obvious difference that can be heard immediately. CTH with 6C8G tube does *not* sound anything like the CTH with stock tube. Actually, let me re-phrase that: the nice sound of the CTH gets a LOT better. Same sound signature, but more powerful, especially in the low end, much nicer highs, the mid range sounds so smooth and good.... and sound stage feels wider or bigger. Used my Mr. Speakers AEON Flow Closed, btw.

I totally understand that for some, after buying the CTH ($250 or so) - no budget is left for the upgrade. My advice to you: start saving! we're talking $75-80 or so, that would totally transform your amp from entry-level to mid-tier (IMHO). CTH being used "stock" - is a waste of huge potential.

BTW, I am feeding the CTH from the Massdrop RDAC. *GREAT combo*, especially after the 6C8G upgrade 
Massdrop portfolio of value components is VERY impressive. Cannot wait to see (and hear) what CT comes up with next!!!


----------



## jrhill

Maybe a good quality linear power supply (better than the simple lm317, etc) 

A range of linears could be upgrade options from the MD guys for various other units too that come with basic 'switcher' supplies


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> After reading earlier discussion regarding retro-fitting the CTH with 6C8G tube - I got curious and decided to try it for myself.
> Got the socket saver from Tube Monger, the adapter from a Chinese eBay seller, and RCA 6C8G tube (off eBay). The Chinese adapter finally arrived today - so I could take it for a spin...
> 
> Let me start by saying that I also own a Lyr3 and 15-20 tubes that I was rolling, and the differences (to MY non-golden ears) have been subtle.
> ...



Those 6C8Gs open up more as time goes by. The tube width will expand and its sound becomes more refined. The guys in the Lyr tube rolling thread were great resources for finding out what tubes could be rolled in 6922 and compatible amps.

If Massdrop released a linear power supply for this amp I think it would go from lightweight champion to a middle weight powerhouse. 

*Fingers crossed*


----------



## InsTwin

Bought a CTH recently and have been enjoying it, but considering purchasing a few tubes to try out rolling. Was just looking at the Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88, any other recommendations? It looks like I can pick up a 6C8G and adapter off ebay for pretty cheap which is tempting after the impressions Zachik just posted.


----------



## Marlowe

Guidostrunk said:


> I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. Anemic bass, and narrow 2 dimensional soundstage. The fix: 6c8g adapter with Tung-sol or Philco 6c8g, or 6n3 adapter and any of the 5670/2c51/396a tubes.


Let me ask one dumb question and one non-dumb question. The dumb question: is the socket saver only necessary when using a 6C8G tube and adapter? (To create height for that adapter's cable to clear the case I assume.) So is there any reason I should not use just a 6N3 adapter and Tung-Sol 2C51 tube without a socket saver? (Even though the 2C51 is stubbier than the stock tube it sits up higher with the adapter; I inserted it but have not used it yet.)

The non-dumb question: does the 2C51 (or 5670s, which I also have) provide an improvement over the stock tube in any way comparable to using the 6C8G?


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Those 6C8Gs open up more as time goes by. The tube width will expand and its sound becomes more refined. The guys in the Lyr tube rolling thread were great resources for finding out what tubes could be rolled in 6922 and compatible amps.
> 
> If Massdrop released a linear power supply for this amp I think it would go from lightweight champion to a middle weight powerhouse.
> 
> *Fingers crossed*


Thanks buddy for your help on-thread and offline 
I do not have inside information on LPS, but I did chat with CT from Massdrop several times on this issue...  by now he's probably sick and tired from hearing me asking for LPS  
Without knowing anything, I am optimistic too.


----------



## Zachik

InsTwin said:


> Bought a CTH recently and have been enjoying it, but considering purchasing a few tubes to try out rolling. Was just looking at the Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88, any other recommendations? It looks like I can pick up a 6C8G and adapter off ebay for pretty cheap which is tempting after the impressions Zachik just posted.


Don't forget the socket saver - it is required (unless you start cutting the case to widen the round hole above the tube socket)...


----------



## Phantaminum

Marlowe said:


> Let me ask one dumb question and one non-dumb question. The dumb question: is the socket saver only necessary when using a 6C8G tube and adapter? (To create height for that adapter's cable to clear the case I assume.) So is there any reason I should not use just a 6N3 adapter and Tung-Sol 2C51 tube without a socket saver? (Even though the 2C51 is stubbier than the stock tube it sits up higher with the adapter; I inserted it but have not used it yet.)
> 
> The non-dumb question: does the 2C51 (or 5670s, which I also have) provide an improvement over the stock tube in any way comparable to using the 6C8G?



It's not necessary but it'll make taking out the tube adapter much easier. If you wiggle the tube to try to take out the adapter, and the tube comes out by itself,  you'll have a hell of a time trying to take out the adapter. Save yourself the stress of that happening.

I like 6n3ps/2c51s/5670s. They have a wider sound stage than the 6922/E88CC and you can find fantastic Russian tubes for cheap. I really enjoyed the GE 5-Star 5670 with the HD650s.

On the other hand the 6c8gs will provide you with the largest change in sound with this amp. It has a much wider sound stage and depth than any other tube types I've rolled.

I've mentioned this before in a small tube shoot out I did but the HD650 with the default Electro Harmonix tube has fantastic synergy. CEETEE and Cavalli did a great job finding the right tube to get most people started with a hybrid tube amp. I personally wouldn't roll tubes if I only had the HD650 but if you have other open head phones then why not. As been said before if you do use adapters MD will probably not cover your amp if stops working. If you're fine with that risk then roll on brother.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zachik said:


> After reading earlier discussion regarding retro-fitting the CTH with 6C8G tube - I got curious and decided to try it for myself.
> Got the socket saver from Tube Monger, the adapter from a Chinese eBay seller, and RCA 6C8G tube (off eBay). The Chinese adapter finally arrived today - so I could take it for a spin...
> 
> Let me start by saying that I also own a Lyr3 and 15-20 tubes that I was rolling, and the differences (to MY non-golden ears) have been subtle.
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 5670 tubes are far better than the stock tube as well. They lack the space of the 6c8g in the soundstage, and bass presence. Not by much, but definitely noticeable. Imaging is pretty close. Everything is just bigger and fuller with the 6c8g. 
You really don't need the socket saver for the 5670/adapter. Just makes it easier to swap and less wear on the socket itself. 

That 6c8g you have will only get better over time. It'll smooth out and become more refined the closer you get to 50hrs. 
Keep your eyes peeled in the future for a deal on a Tung-sol 6c8g. The midrange on that tube is a near religious experience lol. Everything is meatier. Imaging just to another level over the others. 

Cheers


Marlowe said:


> Let me ask one dumb question and one non-dumb question. The dumb question: is the socket saver only necessary when using a 6C8G tube and adapter? (To create height for that adapter's cable to clear the case I assume.) So is there any reason I should not use just a 6N3 adapter and Tung-Sol 2C51 tube without a socket saver? (Even though the 2C51 is stubbier than the stock tube it sits up higher with the adapter; I inserted it but have not used it yet.)
> 
> The non-dumb question: does the 2C51 (or 5670s, which I also have) provide an improvement over the stock tube in any way comparable to using the 6C8G?


----------



## Guidostrunk

What he said! ~>





Phantaminum said:


> It's not necessary but it'll make taking out the tube adapter much easier. If you wiggle the tube to try to take out the adapter, and the tube comes out by itself,  you'll have a hell of a time trying to take out the adapter. Save yourself the stress of that happening.
> 
> I like 6n3ps/2c51s/5670s. They have a wider sound stage than the 6922/E88CC and you can find fantastic Russian tubes for cheap. I really enjoyed the GE 5-Star 5670 with the HD650s.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Keep your eyes peeled in the future for a deal on a Tung-sol 6c8g. The midrange on that tube is a near religious experience lol. Everything is meatier. Imaging just to another level over the others.


With the help of @Phantaminum (who located it for me) - I just ordered a Tung-Sol under disguise from Australia... 
So far, I got the RCA which sounds GREAT, and a Ken-Rad which I did not get to audition, yet...


----------



## Marlowe

Phantaminum said:


> It's not necessary but it'll make taking out the tube adapter much easier. If you wiggle the tube to try to take out the adapter, and the tube comes out by itself,  you'll have a hell of a time trying to take out the adapter. Save yourself the stress of that happening.
> 
> I like 6n3ps/2c51s/5670s. They have a wider sound stage than the 6922/E88CC and you can find fantastic Russian tubes for cheap. I really enjoyed the GE 5-Star 5670 with the HD650s.
> 
> On the other hand the 6c8gs will provide you with the largest change in sound with this amp. It has a much wider sound stage and depth than any other tube types I've rolled.



Thanks for your reply, I'll likely try the 2C51s and/or the 5670s soon. I might as well start there since I already have everything on hand. If I like the results, I'll consider giving the 6C8Gs a try.

I was already worried about trying to get a socket saver or adapter out of the CTH. I already have a set of cheap (about $5 each) socket savers that I used at one time in the Valhalla 2 for aesthetic reasons. I once had one rolling around inside the Valhalla, which was a pain but retrievable since there is much more room to work in that amp. I'd dread having the same situation with the CTH. In any case, the 2C51 tube is pretty solidly inserted into the adapter, which almost invariably comes along upon removal of the tube, especially if done slowly and carefully (I did it twice today).


----------



## Zachik (Aug 22, 2018)

I need help / advice from the experts here...

Tonight, using the much-easier-to-drive Campfire Cascade - I heard a VERY loud hum   even when no music is playing and volume turned to zero 
Going back to the AEON Flow Closed (AFC) - I can hear the hum, but much softer (as those are not nearly as efficient)... Not sure if I missed it yesterday, or whether it is a new phenomena!
I disconnected RCA input cables, turned off DAC - no change! Touching the case with my hand, or touching the DC power in connector - helps somewhat (but the hum returns when I let go).

What could cause that horrible hum?!  Ground loop that I have been reading about??
Switching back to stock CTH tube - same!
Either I never noticed it before, something happened to my CTH, or the Tube Monger socket saver causes it (I cannot easily pull it out)?

HELP!!! 

Any advice or what to try - would be greatly appreciated!

Update 1: after posting, tried debugging more... Took the CTH for a "tour around the house" - basically plugged it in other rooms, with nothing connected to the input. SAME result  
At this point, could it be the power adapter? or the adapter to allow for the 6C8G tubes to be connected? I tried 2 different 6C8G tubes - same result so not a bad tube! 
With the stock CTH tube - the hum is MUCH quieter but (with the Cascade) - still present.
Last note for this update - since I cannot figure out how to remove the tube monger socket saver, even the stock tube test is with the socket saver, which I received new last week. Could the socket saver introduce a hum if faulty?!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Try unplugging everything. Rebooting your source. I get it sometimes, and that always works. Could be simple interference. 





Zachik said:


> I need help / advice from the experts here...
> 
> Tonight, using the much-easier-to-drive Campfire Cascade - I heard a VERY loud hum   even when no music is playing and volume turned to zero
> Going back to the AEON Flow Closed (AFC) - I can hear the hum, but much softer (as those are not nearly as efficient)... Not sure if I missed it yesterday, or whether it is a new phenomena!
> ...


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Try unplugging everything. Rebooting your source. I get it sometimes, and that always works. Could be simple interference.


Added "Update 1" to my post - basically, not only I disconnected everything, but even took the CTH to other rooms (power outlets) and connected with no input, volume at zero, and the hum is the same 
So, if interference - it is not from my setup or any other electrical appliance!

ANY other ideas to try?!


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Added "Update 1" to my post - basically, not only I disconnected everything, but even took the CTH to other rooms (power outlets) and connected with no input, volume at zero, and the hum is the same
> So, if interference - it is not from my setup or any other electrical appliance!
> 
> ANY other ideas to try?!



Could be the socket saver. Put in a tube and roll it back and forth until you can pull it up or partially pull it up. If you can't pull it up with a tube. You'll have to use floss, wrap it around a few times to make it thick, and then put it into the amp, wrap it around the base of the socket two times and then pull it up. Once it's out, test the amp with the tube it came with.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Could be the socket saver. Put in a tube and roll it back and forth until you can pull it up or partially pull it up. If you can't pull it up with a tube. You'll have to use floss, wrap it around a few times to make it thick, and then put it into the amp, wrap it around the base of the socket two times and then pull it up. Once it's out, test the amp with the tube it came with.


Will try this evening when I get home. As mentioned, with the socket saver and stock tube the hum is only noticeable with the Cascades. Cannot hear it with the AFC... and even with the cascades it is order or magnitude quieter compared to any 6c8g tube.
Also, I wish I could test the adapter + 6c8g without the socket saver (one more data point...), but that is not physically / mechanically possible...

In the meantime - any other things I should try this evening?


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Will try this evening when I get home. As mentioned, with the socket saver and stock tube the hum is only noticeable with the Cascades. Cannot hear it with the AFC... and even with the cascades it is order or magnitude quieter compared to any 6c8g tube.
> Also, I wish I could test the adapter + 6c8g without the socket saver (one more data point...), but that is not physically / mechanically possible...
> 
> In the meantime - any other things I should try this evening?



Let me ask. Did you previously listen to the Cascades before adding the socket saver?

At 100 dB SPL/mW those Cascades are quite sensitive and that could be why you're hearing the humming. My E-Mu Teaks have a sensitivity of 94 dB/mW and I don't hear a hum with a socket saver and tube adapter added. My other concern is how much play do you have on the volume pot on the MCTH? With the E-Mus I don't have much play before it goes from really quiet to pretty fricking loud.

If you haven't it could be the sensitivity of the headphones but I still say to pull out the socket saver and try it with the stock tube. Let us know what you find out.


----------



## runeight

Also, keep in mind that the CTH uses the external SMPS. There is no 60Hz or 120Hz inside the box or coming from the PS. So if you hear 60Hz type hum there are only 3 possibilities that I can think of.

1. The SMPS is defective and is bleeding 60Hz or 120Hz into the amp. I'm pretty sure MD would have found this in final manuf test, but things can happen from time to time.
2. There is a lot of EM where you are, possibly radiating into the box or the tube. Socket savers can be good antennae.
3. The amp is not properly grounded. Remember that the CTH does not have an AC wall ground. It gets its ground from whatever is plugged into it. Under normal circumstances this is perfectly alright, not different from a portable rig, even one where both the amp and source are battery powered and, hence, are both floating. On the other hand, I have one and it doesn't exhibit hum even if nothing is plugged into it.

Thus, it will be necessary to track each one of these down to solve this. You might need to ask MD if they would consider a new power brick. This is the only way to eliminate that as the source of problem. But, I would look at all the grounding issues first.


----------



## runeight

On another note, is there anyone who is using a socket extension and an octal (or 6C8G) AND who has already opened the amp?? If so, I would like to ask if you can make a measurement for me. Thanks.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> Let me ask. Did you previously listen to the Cascades before adding the socket saver?
> 
> At 100 dB SPL/mW those Cascades are quite sensitive and that could be why you're hearing the humming. My E-Mu Teaks have a sensitivity of 94 dB/mW and I don't hear a hum with a socket saver and tube adapter added. My other concern is how much play do you have on the volume pot on the MCTH? With the E-Mus I don't have much play before it goes from really quiet to pretty fricking loud.
> 
> If you haven't it could be the sensitivity of the headphones but I still say to pull out the socket saver and try it with the stock tube. Let us know what you find out.


Unfortunately, I never used the cascades with the CTH before. Tonight - will try to remove the socket saver and see if it makes a difference. 
Keep in mind there is a HUGE difference in hum loudness between the stock tube (with socket saver) and ANY 6c8g tube (I have 2 for now, RCA and Ken-Rad). on a scale of 1..10 -> I would say the stock tube hum at 2, where the hum with 6c8g at 8 or 9 
I do not have a proper SPL meter (about time I get one!!!), but will use SPL app on my iPhone to compare tonight.

I wonder if the 6c8g tube or the adapter *significantly magnify* whatever underlying hum is there already...


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Also, keep in mind that the CTH uses the external SMPS. There is no 60Hz or 120Hz inside the box or coming from the PS. So if you hear 60Hz type hum there are only 3 possibilities that I can think of.
> 
> 1. The SMPS is defective and is bleeding 60Hz or 120Hz into the amp. I'm pretty sure MD would have found this in final manuf test, but things can happen from time to time.
> 2. There is a lot of EM where you are, possibly radiating into the box or the tube. Socket savers can be good antennae.
> ...


Alex - thanks for stepping in!!
I have no idea what's the frequency of the hum... Any way to measure it? I would record it tonight with my iPhone, and attach a sound file.
As mentioned - NOTHING is connected to the RCA inputs, and tried plugging to the wall in several locations / rooms, so I seriously doubt it is EM or other interference being picked up by the CTH (or the socket saver). Anything is possible, obviously, but seems unlikely (to me).
I do not have a 2nd SMPS to compare it to (to eliminate or prove faulty SMPS theory). when I touch the DC power in connector (right where it plugs to the CTH), it does reduce the hum! Is it my body grounding it?
I do have the LCX as well - Alex, is it compatible SMPS? (I am not home, so cannot compare specs or connector size, but from memory - I think they're NOT compatible).
As for last theory (grounding) - Alex, is there a way to ground it properly?


----------



## runeight

LCX and CTH are not compatible PS. I don't know for sure, but I guess that MD might let you have a new brick if you asked them. However, the brick had to pass the original manuf test too. It seems unlikely, but from the rest of your description, this is the only thing left.

Have you tried original tube in original socket? You may have and I just missed your post about it.

Is your source AC grounded with a 3 prong plug?


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> LCX and CTH are not compatible PS. I don't know for sure, but I guess that MD might let you have a new brick if you asked them. However, the brick had to pass the original manuf test too. It seems unlikely, but from the rest of your description, this is the only thing left.
> 
> Have you tried original tube in original socket? You may have and I just missed your post about it.
> 
> Is your source AC grounded with a 3 prong plug?


I will try to remove the Tube Monger socket saver tonight (did not try too hard last night, but was not straightforward since it is flush with top of the case...)
Since the hum with original tube is very quiet (even with Cascades) - I am still mostly interested in the reason the hum went from barely noticeable (stock tube) to VERY loud (6c8g).
Alex - why do you think the *huge *difference in hum loudness?!  Does the 6c8g amplify (A LOT) the underlying hum?  Or could the adapter (between 6c8g tube and the socket saver) cause it??
(I got the adapter from the Chinese eBay seller that several people here highly recommended as good quality adapters maker)


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Unfortunately, I never used the cascades with the CTH before. Tonight - will try to remove the socket saver and see if it makes a difference.
> Keep in mind there is a HUGE difference in hum loudness between the stock tube (with socket saver) and ANY 6c8g tube (I have 2 for now, RCA and Ken-Rad). on a scale of 1..10 -> I would say the stock tube hum at 2, where the hum with 6c8g at 8 or 9
> I do not have a proper SPL meter (about time I get one!!!), but will use SPL app on my iPhone to compare tonight.
> 
> I wonder if the 6c8g tube or the adapter *significantly magnify* whatever underlying hum is there already...



You'll hear more hum from the 6C8Gs because their MU is higher than the 6922s. Amplifies more of the sound (hum). I don't hear it with any of my headphones but they're not as sensitive as the Campfires. Interesting...and if the Electro Harmonix still causes a hum it could be the gain on the amp plus the gain from the tubes.

Do you hear the the hum on the Lyr 3? It has a lower gain and the 6sn7 tubes have a lower mu than the 6c8g.


----------



## Marlowe

I can't say that the hum issue doesn't nag at me since I just tried a 2C51 with adapter (no socket saver) in the CTH this afternoon. It sounds quite nice, the primary difference seems to be somewhat more airiness with a bit more space between instruments, though certainly not night and day. I spent about 45 minutes listening to some tracks I am very familiar with and will do some more testing over the next few days. It's relatively easy to swap tubes with the CH since the amp runs so ridiculously cool that I can touch the tube while in use--it's pretty warm, maybe a touch uncomfortably, but not even close to dangerous territory.


----------



## Phantaminum

Marlowe said:


> It's relatively easy to swap tubes with the CH since the amp runs so ridiculously cool that I can touch the tube while in use--it's pretty warm, maybe a touch uncomfortably, but not even close to dangerous territory.



I think I read this wrong but you're not swapping out tubes while the amp is still on right?


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> I will try to remove the Tube Monger socket saver tonight (did not try too hard last night, but was not straightforward since it is flush with top of the case...)
> Since the hum with original tube is very quiet (even with Cascades) - I am still mostly interested in the reason the hum went from barely noticeable (stock tube) to VERY loud (6c8g).
> Alex - why do you think the *huge *difference in hum loudness?!  Does the 6c8g amplify (A LOT) the underlying hum?  Or could the adapter (between 6c8g tube and the socket saver) cause it??
> (I got the adapter from the Chinese eBay seller that several people here highly recommended as good quality adapters maker)



It could be that the extension is defective and very good at picking up environmental EM. And, as noted by Phantaminum, the 6C8G has higher gain (although the global NFB somewhat accommodates this). If the extension is defective the stock tube might hum a little and the 6C8G might hum a lot more.

If the PS brick is clean, then there can't be any defect in the amp that is introducing hum, because there isn't any in the box.

Try the stock with no adapter and see what you get.


----------



## runeight

Phantaminum said:


> I think I read this wrong but you're not swapping out tubes while the amp is still on right?



Oh, good catch. Are you doing that? We have to ask.


----------



## Marlowe (Aug 22, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I think I read this wrong but you're not swapping out tubes while the amp is still on right?


LOL, no! I wouldn't put a tube in or out with the power on, though I do see how my imprecise post could've been read this way. I just meant you can make relatively quick comparisons since it's not necessary for a long wait (as with the Valhalla 2) for the tubes to cool sufficiently to touch. (If you follow Schiit's advice to the letter, and wait for the power light to completely turn off before swapping tubes, you can wait forever; it can take 45 minutes to an hour or even more for the light to completely wink out depending how long the amp has been running.


----------



## runeight

Marlowe said:


> LOL, no! I wouldn't put a tube in or out with the power on. I just meant you can make relatively quick comparisons since it's not necessary for a long wait (as with the Valhalla 2) for the tubes to cool sufficiently to touch.



 

Try the stock with no adapter. Let's see what happens.


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> You'll hear more hum from the 6C8Gs because their MU is higher than the 6922s. Amplifies more of the sound (hum). I don't hear it with any of my headphones but they're not as sensitive as the Campfires. Interesting...and if the Electro Harmonix still causes a hum it could be the gain on the amp plus the gain from the tubes.
> 
> Do you hear the the hum on the Lyr 3? It has a lower gain and the 6sn7 tubes have a lower mu than the 6c8g.


Will try with the Lyr3 later... I tore down my entire setup last night trying to debug and isolate root cause... My setup look like a tornado passed through it, which would be a surprising phenomena in California 



runeight said:


> It could be that the extension is defective and very good at picking up environmental EM. And, as noted by Phantaminum, the 6C8G has higher gain (although the global NFB somewhat accommodates this). If the extension is defective the stock tube might hum a little and the 6C8G might hum a lot more.
> 
> If the PS brick is clean, then there can't be any defect in the amp that is introducing hum, because there isn't any in the box.
> 
> Try the stock with no adapter and see what you get.


Alex - trying again (just got home) with stock tube (socket saver still in), the hum is very hard to detect. I feel like it was worse last night. Using iPhone SPL app - the needle doesn't even move (and admittedly, not easy to detect).
Now, plugging the adapter + 6c8g tube -> very loud hum. Surprisingly (to me at least), SPL meter app on iPhone measures only 2dB or so above ambient room noise (51-52dB with central A/C running), but putting the Cascades on my head - hum is VERY loud and definitely renders this combo (as it functions now) unusable (quiet passages in music would still allow for hum to be heard loudly).
Anyhow, despite being only 2dB above room ambient level - I did try to record 5 seconds (see attached to this post). You'll probably need to crank the volume on your computer to max to hear it. I guess iPhone mic is not very sensitive to this frequency?

So... what now? try remove socket saver and see?  I mean even WITH the socket saver - stock tube sounds fine. and without the socket saver - I would not be able to plug the adapter...


----------



## Zachik

^^^ No idea why attached ZIP file not showing...


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Will try with the Lyr3 later... I tore down my entire setup last night trying to debug and isolate root cause... My setup look like a tornado passed through it, which would be a surprising phenomena in California
> 
> 
> Alex - trying again (just got home) with stock tube (socket saver still in), the hum is very hard to detect. I feel like it was worse last night. Using iPhone SPL app - the needle doesn't even move (and admittedly, not easy to detect).
> ...



I think we have to get some baseline to know what is adding the noise. So, if you can, I think it would be good information to know that noise level with nothing in between the stock tube and the stock socket.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> On another note, is there anyone who is using a socket extension and an octal (or 6C8G) AND who has already opened the amp?? If so, I would like to ask if you can make a measurement for me. Thanks.



I'm in the process of moving in the next few weeks but when I get settled in I'll see if I can take some measurements for you. Now to find my multi-meter.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> On another note, is there anyone who is using a socket extension and an octal (or 6C8G) AND who has already opened the amp?? If so, I would like to ask if you can make a measurement for me. Thanks.





runeight said:


> Try the stock with no adapter. Let's see what happens.


Alex - trying the stock WITH the socket saver, I cannot hear any hum anymore! Even last night it was very faint, but I cannot hear it anymore at all. Not even with the sensitive and efficient Cascades.



runeight said:


> I think we have to get some baseline to know what is adding the noise. So, if you can, I think it would be good information to know that noise level with nothing in between the stock tube and the stock socket.


Since I cannot hear the hum WITH the socket saver, I am not sure if there is a point in trying without anymore...

Next step may be open the case, so I can try adapter with 6c8g WITHOUT the socket saver.
Alex - do you think the socket saver could introduce a hum so faint it is not audible with stock tube, but 6c8g tube amplifies it to make it VERY audible??
Also, if I open the case anyhow - I might as well be useful and help you with measurements     Let me know what you'd like me to measure...


----------



## runeight

I was just wondering if the saver or the adapter were acting like antennae and picking up local EM and then introducing it into the tube which is sticking way up out of the box.

But, if the noise is gone with stock, then next step.... 

Let me know when you're ready to measure with 6c8g.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> I was just wondering if the saver or the adapter were acting like antennae and picking up local EM and then introducing it into the tube which is sticking way up out of the box.
> 
> But, if the noise is gone with stock, then next step....
> 
> Let me know when you're ready to measure with 6c8g.


OK - managed to remove socket saver, and open the case!
Stock tube - silent.
6c8g adapter + 6c8g tube (*see photo below*) - serious hum 

Is it safe to conclude at this point that I got a bad adapter from the Chinese eBay seller? or could there still be a very quiet hum that is seriously amplified by 6c8g??

Anyone here has a backup / 2nd adapter that is TESTED to be known as a good one, with sensitive / efficient cans (like Cascades)?
Getting a new one from China would take 2-3 weeks.....
*I will obviously pay for it!!* (hope there is a good soul here )

Alex - what would you like me to measure?


----------



## runeight

Probably bad adapter. I forgot about the plate cap and wire. Good antennae. 

There are two test points behind the tube labeled LP and RP. These are the plate voltages on each triode. Measure these to ground which is the big screw in the middle somewhere.

The front end will bring these voltages to about 103V plus or minus for 6922. I just want to see if the 6C8G has a close enough op point to the 6922 to be auto adjusted to the correct plate voltage.

Thanks.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Probably bad adapter. I forgot about the plate cap and wire. Good antennae.
> 
> There are two test points behind the tube labeled LP and RP. These are the plate voltages on each triode. Measure these to ground which is the big screw in the middle somewhere.
> 
> ...


Alex, clarifying that you'd want 4 measurements:
1. Voltage between LP and ground, with 6922 installed.
2. Voltage between RP and ground, with 6922 installed.
3. Voltage between LP and ground, with 6C8G installed.
4. Voltage between RP and ground, with 6C8G installed.

Did I get it correctly?


----------



## someyoungguy

Zachik said:


> OK - managed to remove socket saver, and open the case!
> Stock tube - silent.
> 6c8g adapter + 6c8g tube (*see photo below*) - serious hum
> 
> ...


I’m impressed you got the top off - I unscrewed the back on mine a few weeks ago, as I wanted to spray some contact cleaner into the volume potentiometer to clear up the scratchy volume pot. I got as far as unscrewing the back then it seemed like I’d have to push out the circuit board and it was all getting quite complicated. If the top of the case comes off I’ll give it another go.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Alex, clarifying that you'd want 4 measurements:
> 1. Voltage between LP and ground, with 6922 installed.
> 2. Voltage between RP and ground, with 6922 installed.
> 3. Voltage between LP and ground, with 6C8G installed.
> ...



Correct.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Correct.


Alex - all 4 tested EXACTLY the same at 102.8V
What does it tell you? That 6C8G with the adapter are indeed a suitable replacement for the 6922 ?


----------



## Zachik

someyoungguy said:


> I’m impressed you got the top off - I unscrewed the back on mine a few weeks ago, as I wanted to spray some contact cleaner into the volume potentiometer to clear up the scratchy volume pot. I got as far as unscrewing the back then it seemed like I’d have to push out the circuit board and it was all getting quite complicated. If the top of the case comes off I’ll give it another go.


Was VERY easy:
- Remove 7 screws on back panel -> back panel comes right off.
- Remove 3 screws on bottom -> now the whole PCB with knobs and everything just slides out easily.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Alex - all 4 tested EXACTLY the same at 102.8V
> What does it tell you? That 6C8G with the adapter are indeed a suitable replacement for the 6922 ?



Yes. It says the amp can autobias that tube into spec. Good news for you guys who are doing this particular roll.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Yes. It says the amp can autobias that tube into spec. Good news for you guys who are doing this particular roll.


As if anyone on this thread was really waiting for the official green light from Alex... 
But joking aside - good to know the CTH will be operation within spec.
Now if I can only get an adapter that does not hum......


----------



## someyoungguy

Zachik said:


> Was VERY easy:
> - Remove 7 screws on back panel -> back panel comes right off.
> - Remove 3 screws on bottom -> now the whole PCB with knobs and everything just slides out easily.


Ah right, looks like I didn’t even see those 3 screws on the bottom. Doh!


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Probably bad adapter. I forgot about the plate cap and wire. Good antennae.


Alex - do you think Ferrite Core like the one below could resolve my issue, if indeed the adapter act as an antennae?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015RAZTIA?tag=3340693-headfi-20

(Credit for this good suggestion goes to @Phantaminum )


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Alex - do you think Ferrite Core like the one below could resolve my issue, if indeed the adapter act as an antennae?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015RAZTIA?tag=3340693-headfi-20
> 
> (Credit for this good suggestion goes to @Phantaminum )



From your description your noise is low freq. These ferrites won't help you there.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> From your description your noise is low freq. These ferrites won't help you there.


Bummer. Well, since I already placed the order a few hours ago - I will give it a try anyhow. Nothing to lose...
Chinese seller insists it is NOT his adapter, and won't send me another one to test 
*ANYONE here uses 6c8g tubes and has a sensitive / efficient cans? Trying to confirm the hum is not an inherit issue with CTH and 6c8g...* 
Even with the AFC (not very efficient...) - I hear the hum! Not nearly as loud as Cascades, but most definitely there!


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> From your description your noise is low freq. These ferrites won't help you there.


Alex - another thought... Do you think using iFi IEMatch (https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/) would help?
I actually own the little brother (https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/) - will try it tonight!


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Alex - another thought... Do you think using iFi IEMatch (https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/) would help?
> I actually own the little brother (https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/) - will try it tonight!



I'm afraid I don't know enough about that product to say.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've been rolling 3 different 6c8g's. I have absolutely no hum whatsoever. I'm using the gold base adapter from China.  





Zachik said:


> Bummer. Well, since I already placed the order a few hours ago - I will give it a try anyhow. Nothing to lose...
> Chinese seller insists it is NOT his adapter, and won't send me another one to test
> *ANYONE here uses 6c8g tubes and has a sensitive / efficient cans? Trying to confirm the hum is not an inherit issue with CTH and 6c8g...*
> Even with the AFC (not very efficient...) - I hear the hum! Not nearly as loud as Cascades, but most definitely there!


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> I've been rolling 3 different 6c8g's. I have absolutely no hum whatsoever. I'm using the gold base adapter from China.


what headphones do you use? 
also, do you have a 2nd / backup adapter you could send me, after testing it is working without hum? I will pay for it, of course!
Chinese seller refuses to send another one, claiming the one I got is NOT broken! Obviously, he could be wrong, and that is what I am hoping because otherwise - my CTH is broken...


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Alex - another thought... Do you think using iFi IEMatch (https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/) would help?
> I actually own the little brother (https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/) - will try it tonight!


*Update:* tested the Cascades with the iFi Ear Buddy and the super-humming 6c8g. Hum is VERY faint now.
BUT: this is not a fix. It is a work-around that substantially reduces the hum, but not making it go away.

Next steps:
1. Try the ferrite cores, as sugegsted by @Phantaminum (order placed. should arrive Saturday).
2. Get a 2nd adapter. Preferably from someone here that tested to be hum-free on his CTH.
3. Try my adapter on a different CTH (maybe my CTH has a problem...) - will try to arrange with CT from Massdrop...


----------



## someyoungguy

A Reflektor 6922 tube I ordered off eBay arrived today. Sounds good straight out of the box, I’ll leave it to burn in for about 50 hours or so before making any judgements and thinking about how it compares to the Electro Harmonix. 

But I also decided to take the dive and get a 6C8G tube and the necessary adapters etc.

Yesterday I opened up the CTH in order to try spraying contact cleaner on the volume pot but the potentiometers are sealed. The scratching isn’t too bad and mainly up in the top part of the volume range which I hardly get up to so I think I’ll just live with it for now. If I feel like it later I could do the trick of heating up the end of a paper clip in order to melt a little hole in the plastic potentiometer casing so I can get some cleaner in.


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> Alex - do you think Ferrite Core like the one below could resolve my issue, if indeed the adapter act as an antennae?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015RAZTIA?tag=3340693-headfi-20
> 
> (Credit for this good suggestion goes to @Phantaminum )





runeight said:


> From your description your noise is low freq. These ferrites won't help you there.



Alex, unfortunately (for me) - you're 100% correct. Ferrite cores made no difference 
Tried with 1 and with 2 installed on the cap wire - could not hear any improvement!
Back to trying to get a 2nd adapter and check it out...


----------



## audiogeekery

Roscoeiii said:


> Haven't come across it,  but generally amp makers give us a high enough input impedance that it shouldn't be a real factor in gear matching. Unless you have a source with an unusually high output impedance? Or is there something else I'm not taking into account.
> 
> Output impedance, on the other hand can really impact the freq response for some headphones (looking at you here, Andromeda) and/or speakers. But this is a factor only for the amp that is directly driving the transducer (headphone or speaker). Again, unless I am missing something.


I was also trying to find the input impedance for this thing! I want to hook up my Croft Tube pre amp and phono stage to listen to vinyl but wasn’t sure. 
That preamp has an output impedance of < 300 Ω so I’m not sure if it’s okay to try?

Anyone feel confident to chime in? Would be much appreciated!


----------



## Hansotek

audiogeekery said:


> I was also trying to find the input impedance for this thing! I want to hook up my Croft Tube pre amp and phono stage to listen to vinyl but wasn’t sure.
> That preamp has an output impedance of < 300 Ω so I’m not sure if it’s okay to try?
> 
> Anyone feel confident to chime in? Would be much appreciated!



You'll be just fine hooking up to the Croft. You don't really have to worry about impedance matching with the source. Resistance matters a lot more when you're matching an active component to a passive one. Between two active components, it's not much of a concern.

Which Croft do you have, the Micro 25? I want one of those. That phono stage sounds sweet.


----------



## audiogeekery

Hansotek said:


> You'll be just fine hooking up to the Croft. You don't really have to worry about impedance matching with the source. Resistance matters a lot more when you're matching an active component to a passive one. Between two active components, it's not much of a concern.
> 
> Which Croft do you have, the Micro 25? I want one of those. That phono stage sounds sweet.



Thank you!! Yes, indeed it is the Croft Micro 25. Love it to bits. I’ll also try the line stage to see if Tubes from there make a difference with the DAC (Mimby) fed to it, but it’s mainly the phono stage and it’s a glorious one. 

Hope you manage to snag one, soon!


----------



## someyoungguy

Woohoo, final piece of the tube puzzle arrived today! Tubemonger socket saver, pre-used Ken Rad 6C8G tube and 6922 to 6C8G adaptor off eBay. I’ve also got some ferrite snap ons for the wire on the way from amazon.

First of all I want to say a huge thanks to the people on this forum: I would have never dreamed of doing this or known where to start if it wasn’t for the helpful posts on here. The sound out of this set up is great - fantastic soundstage and sense of space between the instruments, great dynamics.

But secondly, I’ve got the same problem as Zachik - quite a large hum, mainly coming from the right channel, which is interesting in that the right channel is mainly where I have scratch from the volume pot. I noticed after picking up my DAP (which is the source, connected by 3.5mm to RCA cables) that the hum was reduced, so experimented a bit and have figured out the hum is lower pitch and lower volume when I touch the CTH case or connected DAP, and if I do that in combination with holding my other hand over the top of the tube, the hum is reduced even further to nearly gone. Also the hum is the same volume regardless of how far up the volume pot is turned. So it seems to me a combination of grounding and RF interference?

As mentioned I have some ferrite clip ons on the way, so hope that will reduce RF interference. I’ll keep experimenting to see if I can get the noise to reduce as the actual sound quality is awesome. When music is playing the hum isn’t  too bad, but  immediately emerges from the background when the music switches to a quieter passage.

P.S. I’m using the CTH with B&W P7s. I haven’t got any higher impedance headphones to try it out with.


----------



## Zachik

someyoungguy said:


> Woohoo, final piece of the tube puzzle arrived today! Tubemonger socket saver, pre-used Ken Rad 6C8G tube and 6922 to 6C8G adaptor off eBay. I’ve also got some ferrite snap ons for the wire on the way from amazon.
> 
> First of all I want to say a huge thanks to the people on this forum: I would have never dreamed of doing this or known where to start if it wasn’t for the helpful posts on here. The sound out of this set up is great - fantastic soundstage and sense of space between the instruments, great dynamics.
> 
> ...


Finally! Another person with same issue. Not that I am happy you have an issue, but at least I am not alone... which starting to make me wonder if that is a design issue.
@runeight Alex - I did notice that if I touch certain location with my finger (like the contacts on the back of the XLR4 connector, which I do not use since I use the 1/4"), the hum is greatly reduced!  I wonder if there is a grounding issue that causes this hum...
@someyoungguy - for me, the ferrite made NO difference. 

Testing with a much harder to drive headphones (HD600) - I can *barely* hear any hum. I need to pay attention and look hard for it... With AEON Closed - it is definitely there, but not very loud at all. Campfire Cascades - unusable! Super loud hum!! 
That makes me wonder whether everyone has the hum, but (by sheer chance) most use harder to drive / less sensitive cans and therefore cannot or do not notice the hum? 
Do ANY of the guys that use the 6C8G and experience no hum (or so they think...) got access to Cascade to try?


----------



## runeight

If I may say.........

I know that you guys are having a great time with this particular mod and, apparently, it sounds pretty good too. This is definitely part of the fun of this hobby. I know bc I do this kind of stuff too, but.......

This is not a design issue. You are making physical mods to the amp which are outside the intended use and enclosure. You are sticking big, complex antennae up from the center of the board into the tube socket which is where all the gain of the amp occurs. Any noise introduced into the this part of the amp is likely to be amplified. 

Because of this, it could very well be that not every instance of this mod will be as quiet as a mouse. 

Remember, the CTH (noted in manual) uses a floating power brick. This means that is does not have an AC wall ground (a situation common to many consumer electronic products). It takes its ground from whatever it plugged into the RCA jacks. Similar to a portable amp. Whether the source has an AC ground or does not, doesn't really make any difference to how the two devices settle their mutual ground. When you touch a ground point on the amp with your finger, particularly with no input connected, you are possibly providing another ground point which may or may not change the noise level.

But, MHO is that the real issue is the major physical mod of the large tube, plate cap and wire, extenders, and adapters. So, just keep this in mind when you're making this mod.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> If I may say.........
> 
> I know that you guys are having a great time with this particular mod and, apparently, it sounds pretty good too. This is definitely part of the fun of this hobby. I know bc I do this kind of stuff too, but.......
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex for the very prompt and informative reply! Much appreciated.
I have a quick follow-up question, if I may:
Granted the design of the ground as described by you above, is there any practical trick (or mod) to add or force a better ground (other than holding my finger to the right spot while listening to music )? 
You mention the ground comes from the RCA inputs - any mod to the RCA cables to make them ground better regardless of the DAC they come out of?
Or any mod to the amp itself to add a ground (without doing anything extreme to change the amp itself)?

Alex, I understand we're operating here outside the designed envelope (thank for the explanation), and bad comes to worse - I will only use this mod with HD600 and other less-sensitive cans. But would still be nice to improve / fix the issue if at all possible using "custom" RCA cables or any other trick / mod to improve the grounding.


----------



## Marlowe

Hmm, I was thinking of possibly giving this setup a try. I've gone halfway: I'm using a NOS Tung-Sol 2C51 with an adapter (I already had both pieces in my Valhalla 2, which I've moved to my TV rig with JJ EE88CCs). I think the 2C51 makes small but worthwhile improvements, though not as dramatic as reported with the 6C8G. A good example is the impact of the bass and drums on the remastered Out on the Weekend from Neil Young's Harvest; it sounds great on the stock tube, but just a bit greater with the 2C51. I've been running this for a few weeks without issue. No hum, the amp still runs only slightly warm, the tube remains moderately warm and safe to touch (or even grasp) even after  a few hours of play. Given the issues that at least some that have tried the 6C8G tube are having, I think I'll stop with the more modest 2C51 mod.


----------



## Phantaminum

runeight said:


> If I may say.........
> 
> I know that you guys are having a great time with this particular mod and, apparently, it sounds pretty good too. This is definitely part of the fun of this hobby. I know bc I do this kind of stuff too, but.......
> 
> ...



You’re right on this. I think after some experimenting *I* (not MD) can only say this mod is only a good mix with 300 Ohm headphones but planars/sensitive headphones could/will experience issues.  As I mentioned before as well this is a try at your own risk mod.


----------



## someyoungguy

Yeah I absolutely understand this is a DIY mod 

I’m thinking of connecting a ground wire to the body of the CTH and wiring it to a plug, to plug it into a different socket, effectively adding a ground via a separate plug. I’m only using a portable DAP as a source so maybe using a desktop DAC would provide a better sound...hmm like a Massdrop R-2R  

I had been thinking of building a little wooden case/stand for the CTH to provide it a bit of protection, so might try doing that sooner rather than later to see if it reduces the RF interference. 

@Zachik That’s a pity about the Cascades, I intend to pick up a pair as an upgrade to the P7s. If worst comes to worst, I’ll look into getting a high impedance headphone to use exclusively with the CTH, maybe some HD6XXs again or preferably high impedance closed backs.


----------



## Zachik

someyoungguy said:


> I’m thinking of connecting a ground wire to the body of the CTH and wiring it to a plug, to plug it into a different socket, effectively adding a ground via a separate plug. I’m only using a portable DAP as a source so *maybe using a desktop DAC would provide a better sound...hmm like a Massdrop R-2R*


Massdrop RDAC (R-2R) is one of 2 sources I have been using to test the CTH... Unfortunately, that is NOT the solution!
@someyoungguy - I will be VERY curious to hear back from you after you experiment with adding ground to your CTH...
Hopefully, @runeight Alex would reply to my previous post asking about ways to mod the RCA input cable or the amp itself to add / improve ground.

I understand everything we're doing here is DIY / at our own risk!


----------



## someyoungguy

Zachik said:


> Massdrop RDAC (R-2R) is one of 2 sources I have been using to test the CTH... Unfortunately, that is NOT the solution!



Ah right, now that I look at the pics on the Massdrop website I see the plug for that isn't grounded either. Hopefully I'll get some time to trial things this weekend, otherwise it might a few weeks before I get to play around with grounding it to the mains earth.


----------



## audiogeekery

Just an update: Line Out from the Croft Micro 25 preamp worked wonders into the CTH. Still in awe of this smooth volume control! 

Now I have more control with premium ECC82 tunes for rolling ahead of the amp. I didn’t anticipate it working as well as it did. Lots of air and wider soundstage, etc. Only tried out the Mimby through the linestage. Tonight I’ll test the phono stage on my HD6XX’s with the CTH. 

Thanks all!


----------



## Zachik

Quick update on the 6C8G "mod" and hum:
I am very grateful to @CEE TEE who has sent me a loaner CTH, so I can test to see whether the hum was "by design" (as @runeight suggested it could be) or just my unit...

After testing every permutation between 2 CTH, 2 power adapters, and 2 tube (6C8G -> 6922) adapters - the conclusion is clear (IMHO):
*The "6C8G mod" is only meant for high impedance headphones* (as noted a few posts ago by @Phantaminum).

So far, I tested with 3 headphones:
1. Campfile Cascade - sensitive, easy to drive and efficient. Un-usable with 6C8G as hum is way too loud.
2. Mr. Speakers AEON Flow Closed (AFC) - less sensitive / less efficient. Hum still there, but substantially lower. Not recommended with 6C8G but could work for some.
3. Sennheiser HD600 - much higher impedance and lower efficiency. This one pairs very nicely with 6C8G.

I have several more cans in my stable - will try some of them with the 6C8G in the next couple days and report back...


----------



## FLguy (Sep 8, 2018)

FWIW, it seems that there may be other factor(s) at work than just the headphone impedance and efficiency...I tried this mod with a pair of LCD-X (impedance around 20 ohms, 103dB/1mw), and I cannot hear any hum at any volume level. YMMV of course.


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Quick update on the 6C8G "mod" and hum:
> I am very grateful to @CEE TEE who has sent me a loaner CTH, so I can test to see whether the hum was "by design" (as @runeight suggested it could be) or just my unit...





FLguy said:


> FWIW, it seems that there may be other factor(s) at work than just the headphone impedance and efficiency...I tried this mod with a pair of LCD-X (impedance around 20 ohms, 103dB/1mw), and I cannot hear any hum at any volume level. YMMV of course.



Good way to put it FLguy. 

Just to be clear, Zachik, the CTH is NOT designed to hum and so far as I know it does not hum when used in its factory condition and properly attached to a good source.

I  have been (gently) trying to tell you that you are using the amp outside of its designed space and you are sticking in many different kinds of adapters to try to make this mod work. 

The issue is not the CTH, it is the mods and the variations among the mods among different people and the surrounding sources and equipment. Some mods work and some introduce conditions that pick up hum.

A better way to go about this would be for those whose CTHs do not hum, if they don't mind, to post the exact configuration of their systems and the exact mods and mod components, and the environment in which the CTH is living. This way you all can at least know what seems to work and what doesn't seem to work. 

MHO


----------



## Zachik

FLguy said:


> FWIW, it seems that there may be other factor(s) at work than just the headphone impedance and efficiency...I tried this mod with a pair of LCD-X (impedance around 20 ohms, 103dB/1mw), and I cannot hear any hum at any volume level. YMMV of course.


Interesting. Forgot to mention I tried 3 different tubes as well. Same behavior. 
BTW, as for your "any volume level" comment - the hum is constant and same volume level regardless of amp volume level. It is very clearly there even when no music is playing, and volume is set to zero!


----------



## Phantaminum

Zachik said:


> Quick update on the 6C8G "mod" and hum:
> I am very grateful to @CEE TEE who has sent me a loaner CTH, so I can test to see whether the hum was "by design" (as @runeight suggested it could be) or just my unit...
> 
> After testing every permutation between 2 CTH, 2 power adapters, and 2 tube (6C8G -> 6922) adapters - the conclusion is clear (IMHO):
> ...



Great job putting in some elbow grease and finding out what works and what can be affected. Thanks @Zachik


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Just to be clear, Zachik, the CTH is NOT designed to hum and so far as I know it does not hum when used in its factory condition and properly attached to a good source.


Alex - I know it is not designed to hum. In my "by design" comment, I was trying to convey that the amp is working as designed, but with this mod - it could be expected to hum. English is not my native language - might have chosen the wrong words or just step over my own tongue...



runeight said:


> I have been (gently) trying to tell you that you are using the amp outside of its designed space and you are sticking in many different kinds of adapters to try to make this mod work.


Tried 2 different sources:
- Massdrop RDAC pre-production unit
- Metrum Amethyst
Connected by very good quality RCA cables (built by Triton).



runeight said:


> A better way to go about this would be for those whose CTHs do not hum, if they don't mind, to post the exact configuration of their systems and the exact mods and mod components, and the environment in which the CTH is living. This way you all can at least know what seems to work and what doesn't seem to work.


Good point! @Guidostrunk @Phantaminum @FLguy and anyone else who has tried the 6C8G tubes on CTH - can you PLEASE post exact sounds chain leading to the CTH (plus which headphones you've tried it with)?


----------



## FLguy (Sep 8, 2018)

runeight said:


> ... A better way to go about this would be for those whose CTHs do not hum, if they don't mind, to post the exact configuration of their systems and the exact mods and mod components, and the environment in which the CTH is living. This way you all can at least know what seems to work and what doesn't seem to work.


As far as I can tell, I'm using the same components referenced by Phantaminum, with the addition of a second set of tubes (RCA), although I'm now back to Tung Sols. The end result is that I've tried 2 different sets of tubes, and heard no hum with either.

A couple of variables which I will experiment with when time permits:
1) My CTH is plugged into a cheap UPS
2) Of course, my house power (and EMI environment) is likely also not identical to others (not much I can do to test this one)
3) I'm running the LCD-Xs out of the XLR output of the CTH

I'll experiment with items #1 & 3 when time permits, just to see whether those make any difference, and will post back.


----------



## Phantaminum

1. Furman power conditioner
2. PC
3. Schiit USB
4. Schiit Eitr 
5. Blue Jeans Coax cable
6. Schiit Gumby
7. Schiit PYST RCA cables
8. MTCH + Tube Monger Socket Saver
9. Chinese 6c8gs adapter
10. 6c8g tubes
11. Senn HD650/Auteur/AFO/E-Mu Teaks


----------



## FLguy (Sep 8, 2018)

Zachik said:


> ...@Guidostrunk[/USER] @Phantaminum @FLguy and anyone else who has tried the 6C8G tubes on CTH - can you PLEASE post exact sounds chain leading to the CTH (plus which headphones you've tried it with)?


I've mostly used the MCTH in the following system...
1. APC UPS
2. Dell laptop PC (USB output)
3. Matrix S-SPDIF
4. Balanced XLR (Cardas Clear Light)
5. Brooklyn DAC (powered by HDPLEX LPS)
6. RCA cables (Cardas Clear Light)
7. MCTH + Tube Monger Socket Saver
9. Chinese 6c8gs adapter
10. 6c8g tubes (Tung Sol, currently)
8. XLR out to Audeze LCD-X (and a variety of other, higher impedance headphones: HiFiman HE560, Senn HD58X/6XX, Beyer DT880 250 ohm)

I hope this helps...cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Android phone(otg)> Spotify  (premium), some downloaded flac files, mimby,MCTH, Sennheiser 58x jubilee (150ohm). Zero hum!


runeight said:


> Good way to put it FLguy.
> 
> Just to be clear, Zachik, the CTH is NOT designed to hum and so far as I know it does not hum when used in its factory condition and properly attached to a good source.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zachik

Phantaminum said:


> 1. Furman power conditioner
> 2. PC
> 3. Schiit USB
> 4. Schiit Eitr
> ...


Thanks @Guidostrunk and @FLguy for the quick responses!
@Phantaminum - no hum with AFO? It is pretty close to the AFC that I tried with, and it does hum (granted much much less noticeable compared to the Cascade)...


----------



## someyoungguy

Thanks for the updates everyone, looks like this mod prefers a harder to drive headphone. Previously I was using some HD6XXs with the stock electro-harmonixs tube, which were a nice combo, but pity I sold them before getting the 6C8G combo.

I’m more into closed backs, so will proceed with the plan of earthing the chassis etc to see how it goes, but also look around for some harder to drive closed backs that won’t break the bank. Maybe Beyerdynamic DT770s or ZMF classics.


----------



## Marlowe (Sep 9, 2018)

1. Dell PC USB (Tidal HiFI)
2. AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable
3. Schiit Eitr
4. Blue Jeans coaxial cable
5. Schiit Modi Multibit
7. Blue Jeans RCA cables
8. CTH (plugged into a power strip connected directly to household outlet)
9. Chinese 6922 to 5670/2C51 adapter
10. Tung-Sol 2C51 tube (NOS)
11. Sennheiser HD 700/Sennheiser HD 6XX

I've used the above for around three weeks with no hum or other issues.


----------



## Zachik

Marlowe said:


> 1. Dell PC USB (Tidal HiFI)
> 2. AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable
> 3. Schiit Eitr
> 4. Blue Jeans coaxial cable
> ...


Did you compare the 2C51 to stock 6922 ?  How do you think they compare?
Just curious - probably won't be investing in yet another adapter and more tubes.....


----------



## Guidostrunk

2c51 is better than the best CCa tube. There's no comparison. My subjective experience. 2c51 led me to 6c8g. 


Zachik said:


> Did you compare the 2C51 to stock 6922 ?  How do you think they compare?
> Just curious - probably won't be investing in yet another adapter and more tubes.....


----------



## Zachik

More info for people that are on the fence regarding the 6C8G "mod"... 
First, I would like to preface by saying I do NOT have golden ears, and never been musically trained, and so I may not always hear very small nuances or differences.
Since I got a CTH loaner from @CEE TEE (thanks again buddy), I had a unique opportunity to A/B without going through tube rolling cycle (turn amp off... wait a couple minutes... remove tube, and place new tube, turn on amp... wait 1 minute for it to start outputting sound). Even better: I have a high quality A/B/C switch and high quality set of cables for 1/4" <--> RCA. That basically allows me to run both amps in parallel, connected to same A/B/C switch, and single headphone. So, I can switch mid-song between amps while the headphones never leave my ears!  

So... I have done some A/B-ing over the weekend, comparing stock 6922 to several 6C8G tubes (mostly RCA and Ken-Rad). To make sure the amp itself not playing any role, I also swapped the 6922 and 6C8G between the 2 amps and repeated the experiments with similar conclusions.

What were my conclusions then? (had to create some cliff hanger for you guys )
For MY (non-golden) ears - in most tracks I could not hear any difference at all. Tried dozens of tracks (various artists, genres, etc), and VERY few had any difference I could notice! That difference was very subtle, in favor of the 6C8G. I think the subtle difference I hear is "richer" or "fuller" sound on 6C8G. Maybe a little bit wider sound stage. Mind you it was not a real blind A/B, so placebo effect could be blamed here (when I favor 6C8G in the few tracks I heard something a little different).
Let me repeat that TO MY EARS, and I forgot to mention I have been using Sennheiser HD600, most of the time I could not tell any difference, and when I could - it was subtle.
Used my Metrum Amethyst DAC during those A/B tests, fed from Coax. Mostly FLAC 44/16 tracks, with a few albums in FLAC 96/24.

Next, as a "control" experiment, I have asked my GF (who unlike me WAS musically trained in her teens and young adult past) to compare the 2 amps. For her, it was a blind test as she knows nothing about amps and tubes...   After 10-15 minutes switching back and forth - she announced they sound the same to her 95% of the time. When pressed to choose a "better" one - she chose the stock 6922 tube noting some instruments sometimes sound more natural on it.

The 2 amps were volume matched, I measured 88dB for 1KHz tone (on HD600), and there is zero lag when switching between amps. 

Some last notes and comments:
- I have only used 1 headphone (HD600). Anyone here thinks those are not good enough to tell difference between the 2 amps?
- My A/B method may be flawed. I was switching between amps mid-song, on average every 1-2 minutes. Does it make more "scientific sense" to listen to entire song, then switch and listen to same song again?! My assumption was if I do that - my brain would require a much bigger difference to be able to favor an amp or be able to tell me there is a difference at all...
- My lossless audio files and (~$1100) DAC cannot be a "quality bottleneck" IMHO. 

My final conclusions (as of today):
- If you're considering this mod, and have golden ears, or can easily hear differences between tubes no matter how subtle they are -> go for it!
- If you enjoy modding and tinkering -> go for it!
- If your headphones are sensitive / very easy to drive -> you may have hum, so think twice...
- If you've compared 2 amps / DAPs / tubes in the past that people said are very different, but you could not hear a difference to save your life -> skip this one 

I will do more A/B-ing, use different headphones, and report back with an update.  
I am open to suggestions and comments - what should I do differently? which tracks should I try that might have more pronounced difference? Any other suggestions?


----------



## Marlowe (Sep 10, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Did you compare the 2C51 to stock 6922 ?  How do you think they compare?
> Just curious - probably won't be investing in yet another adapter and more tubes.....





Guidostrunk said:


> 2c51 is better than the best CCa tube. There's no comparison. My subjective experience. 2c51 led me to 6c8g.



Well, to begin with, I have only seriously got into this hobby a couple of years ago and don't pretend to be expert in discerning differences or in describing them in standard audio terms. (Also, my ears will be 65 years old in three days.) TBH, I could not say--for me--that there was "no comparison" between the stock 6922 tube and the T-S 2C51. It's not night and day. Depending on the track, I did feel that there was a bit more impact (I know that's a fairly imprecise word here) and slightly more separation of the instruments with the 2C51. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my best example of the tracks I compared is Out on the Weekend from Neil Young's Harvest.The track begins sparely with the drums and bass predominant. It sounds great with the 6922, but with the 2C51 I felt both the bass and drums hit just a little bit harder. Similarly, on Echo & the Bunnymen's Heaven Up Here, a terrific album with great bass playing and drumming, I felt the bass and drums were somewhat more visceral. YMMV of course.

And I already had the adapter and 2C51 tube on hand in my Schiit Valhalla 2, so it it cost me nothing in money or effort. It's not an expensive mod though. (FWIW, a socket saver is not required for this mod as it is for the 6C8G, since there is no cable to connect from the adapter to the tube. FWIW, I'm not using one, though some recommend one even with this mod.) The adapters cost me about $18 for two; you can buy just one for roughly half. The tubes cost me $35 for a pair, though I'm not sure if such a good deal on NOS 2C51s is available ATM. However a bought a few NOS GE 5670s (5670, 2C51, 396A are all the same tube and use the same adapter) for $4 each and they are still available on eBay. I haven't tried them yet in the CTH, but I thought they sounded pretty good in the Valhalla 2, though not quite as good as the Tung-Sol 2C51.


----------



## someyoungguy

Zachik said:


> More info for people that are on the fence regarding the 6C8G "mod"...
> First, I would like to preface by saying I do NOT have golden ears, and never been musically trained, and so I may not always hear very small nuances or differences.
> Since I got a CTH loaner from @CEE TEE (thanks again buddy), I had a unique opportunity to A/B without going through tube rolling cycle (turn amp off... wait a couple minutes... remove tube, and place new tube, turn on amp... wait 1 minute for it to start outputting sound). Even better: I have a high quality A/B/C switch and high quality set of cables for 1/4" <--> RCA. That basically allows me to run both amps in parallel, connected to same A/B/C switch, and single headphone. So, I can switch mid-song between amps while the headphones never leave my ears!
> 
> ...


Nice analysis! Yeah switching tubes makes direct A-B comparisons more difficult. You’ve got a good set-up there.

I’ve tried two tubes other than the stock Electro Harmonix. One is a Reflektor 6922; I felt like it had a touch more bass, but the presentation seemed “pointy” and didn’t have the same smooth feel of the stick tube. But this is after maybe 30 hours burn-in on the Reflektor so any sound differences may just be due to different usage of the tubes. But overall the extent of change was minimal and they seemed 95% the same.

With the 6C8G though I thought there was a bigger change, in dynamics mainly and the sound feels a bit more live. The tube I have is 2nd hand and looks like it’s had a long life, so I’m presuming it’s well burned-in.

In all, I think Massdrop have done well with the stock tube and any differences I’ve heard have been adjustments rather than full alterations of the sound. I did play around the other night with switching between the 3 tubes, but with the few minutes delay in between, so granted I could have some expectation/placebo effect going on.

I’m going to try and experiment and see if I can keep the 6C8G as the main tube I use. I’ve got a cable and plug on the way I can use to ground the chassis.


----------



## audiogeekery

Well as the old cliche goes: I was ready to put this up for sale in the classifieds and then everything broke in! 

It was a perfect storm of new gear though: 
HD6XX 
MCTH Amp
DNM interconnect to my Mimby. 

Been at least 100hrs of playing when the Senns finally showed their potential. Previously it was harsh and had a feel of glare. Now it’s a much more impressive soundstage with air and plankton for days. 

Most impressive was how they both seem to handle any genre with ease. Charlie Byrd segues wonderfully into the Rolling Stones and then David Axelrod. Stunning. Thanks, Cavalli and thanks HeadFi for the advice. I would have sold this before knowing it’s teue potential!


----------



## Zachik

someyoungguy said:


> I did play around the other night with switching between the 3 tubes, but *with the few minutes delay in between, so granted I could have some expectation/placebo effect going on*.


Exactly! 



someyoungguy said:


> I’m going to try and experiment and see if I can keep the 6C8G as the main tube I use. I’ve got a cable and plug on the way I can use to ground the chassis.


I am super curious to hear more about this "ground mod" - please post more details and observations / conclusions once you receive the parts and move forward with it


----------



## Astonish (Sep 15, 2018)

.


----------



## Astonish

Can anyone tell me if they're hearing that in the song above? Trying to figure out if it;s microphonics or the song mastering, because I hear it in different songs that isn't audible on my other amp.


----------



## DavidA

Astonish said:


> Can anyone tell me if they're hearing that in the song above? Trying to figure out if it;s microphonics or the song mastering, because I hear it in different songs that isn't audible on my other amp.


I went to YouTube to listen to the sound and I don't hear any distortion at the "shall I stay" portion.  This is the track I used:


----------



## Zulkr9

I have gotten mine recently, so far really like the finish and the quality even though I have heard some people complain about the bean blasted finishing. The moment I plugged it in I was shocked at how much better it was compared to the first generation lyr driving my HE-500, There was better extension both top and bottom, better detail especially with string instruments, vocals had more depth to them with better texture and emotion, The bass also slammed harder with less of the syrupyness that the lyr exhibited, and soundstage was also a substantial improvement as most schiit amps are not known to sound forward. Funny thing is that this was with the stock tube in the CTH while the lyr was being run with NOS E88CC miniwatt special quality tubes. This amp is a steal for 250, too bad its only on massdrop sometimes waiting for drops can be a pita.


----------



## Astonish

Mines for sale if anyone’s looking for one a little cheaper than the drop. Didn’t like the sound as much as my previous amp


----------



## Zachik

Astonish said:


> Didn’t like the sound as much as my previous amp


What amp did you like better? I am curious...


----------



## Astonish

Zachik said:


> What amp did you like better? I am curious...



The $80 monoprice amp and dac. I like the sound of it better than the Cavalli, magni 3, and little dot mk2. Not saying it’s better, but it has a fun sound that I like with the headphones I use (650, m1060, jubilee)


----------



## Zulkr9

Astonish said:


> The $80 m
> 
> onoprice amp and dac. I like the sound of it better than the Cavalli, magni 3, and little dot mk2. Not saying it’s better, but it has a fun sound that I like with the headphones I use (650, m1060, jubilee)


 I guess your preference plays more towards the monoprice amp But im sure the cavalli is 'technically' the better amp, in technicalities it beat my LYR(1st gen) with upgraded tubes  hands down but I will concede one thing I find the amp to be a bit too warm for my HD650, but they play much better with brighter cans like my HE-500.


----------



## Astonish

Zulkr9 said:


> I guess your preference plays more towards the monoprice amp But im sure the cavalli is 'technically' the better amp, in technicalities it beat my LYR(1st gen) with upgraded tubes  hands down but I will concede one thing I find the amp to be a bit too warm for my HD650, but they play much better with brighter cans like my HE-500.



I’m sure it is, but one thing I’ve learned is technicalities on paper might look good, but if they don’t sound better (to the person using it)  than it doesn’t mean much in an audio hobby


----------



## Zulkr9

Astonish said:


> I’m sure it is, but one thing I’ve learned is technicalities on paper might look good, but if they don’t sound better (to the person using it)  than it doesn’t mean much in an audio hobby


True enjoyment is the most important part. Btw what did you not like about the amp, was it too warm with your headphones ?


----------



## Astonish

Zulkr9 said:


> True enjoyment is the most important part. Btw what did you not like about the amp, was it too warm with your headphones ?



No, I actually found it too bright lol 

I know that sounds weird, I was surprised with it being a tube hybrid too, but apparently other users have thought the same and tube rolling was suggested, but I’m not sure about spending $50 on a tube just to see.

I found the Cavalli the brightest of thre four amps I have, followed by the mangi 3, but found that to be closer to neutral with just a tad of brightness.


----------



## Zulkr9

Astonish said:


> No, I actually found it too bright lol
> 
> I know that sounds weird, I was surprised with it being a tube hybrid too, but apparently other users have thought the same and tube rolling was suggested, but I’m not sure about spending $50 on a tube just to see.
> 
> I found the Cavalli the brightest of thre four amps I have, followed by the mangi 3, but found that to be closer to neutral with just a tad of brightness.



I do think the stock tube is the problem but you need to get a NOS tube new tubes can be shrilly in the highs, the electro-harmonix while I found to sound very good did have some metallic highs, magni 3 also has a forward sounding upper frequency range but its still smooth sounding and a warm amp, The brightness might be from you dac, but the MCTH does have a clarity advantage when compared to the other amps mentioned it was much clearer sounding than my lyr with expensive tubes, by clarity I don't mean more highs it was actually smoother sounding as well, it was just more clear, open and spacious sounding with overall better detail and depth to the sound. 
Maybe you should try giving it a burn in or something.


----------



## Astonish

Zulkr9 said:


> I do think the stock tube is the problem but you need to get a NOS tube new tubes can be shrilly in the highs, the electro-harmonix while I found to sound very good did have some metallic highs, magni 3 also has a forward sounding upper frequency range but its still smooth sounding and a warm amp, The brightness might be from you dac, but the MCTH does have a clarity advantage when compared to the other amps mentioned it was much clearer sounding than my lyr with expensive tubes, by clarity I don't mean more highs it was actually smoother sounding as well, it was just more clear, open and spacious sounding with overall better detail and depth to the sound.
> Maybe you should try giving it a burn in or something.



I think shrill is a good word. And yea I do think that it does have a bit of a clarity advantage, the one thing I noticed is it’s a lot more airy and the soundstage is bigger too, really opens that up. But it has a sibilance to my ears, it can be fatiguing to listen to.

As far as the tube how long does it take to burn in? I’m the second owner so it’s not like the tube is brand new. I’ve heard this amp leans toward bright, so whether or not it’s worth trying a new tube I’m not sure, if anyone has any suggestions for warmer ones that don’t cost half the price of the amp that would be good.


----------



## Zulkr9

Depends try using them for a bit more I heard someone recommending burning these in for a 100 hours, also I think the Electro harmonix tube is what is giving it the bite in the treble, I swapped it out not long after I got it. But that shrillyness aside I didn't find the amp to be bright, what dac are you using, You cold try rolling in a  Genalex E88CC, I think that is the only new production 6922 thats good.


----------



## Zachik

Astonish said:


> The $80 monoprice amp and dac. I like the sound of it better than the Cavalli, magni 3, and little dot mk2. Not saying it’s better, but it has a fun sound that I like with the headphones I use (650, m1060, jubilee)


Interesting. I actually own one - use it at work with HD569.


----------



## Slashn77

does anyone know when this is coming back to massdrop? Was going to pull the trigger on a Lyr 3 but seeing as how they are delayed until october sometime I may be able to save half the money and give this or Vali 2 a try to pair with a Mimby and LCD-2C and Sennheiser HD 700s


----------



## Marlowe

Slashn77 said:


> does anyone know when this is coming back to massdrop? Was going to pull the trigger on a Lyr 3 but seeing as how they are delayed until october sometime I may be able to save half the money and give this or Vali 2 a try to pair with a Mimby and LCD-2C and Sennheiser HD 700s


I can't speak to the Lyr 3 or the LCD-2C since I have not heard them (though I have a lot of other Schiit gear and am very happy with each one), but I use the CTH (with an adapter and NOS Tung-Sol 2C51) with the Mimby and Sennheiser HD700 and the combination sounds great.


----------



## someyoungguy

Okay so I finally got around to doing this “ground mod”.

After some looking around I found this store that sells “grounding/earthing” gear: https://www.groundology.co.uk/

I don’t have much need to ground my yoga mat  but I do have a need to ground a CTH so ordered a Aus/NZ plug from this store that has a live ground prong and two plastic prongs for the +/- prongs on the plug, along with a 3m cable that connects to the plug. There’s a few online shops selling the same gear, but even though I’m in NZ getting it from this UK was cheapest, go figure.

I needed some space on the back panel to drill a couple of holes so went in the blank part in the centre above the small holes (see photo).

Drilled one hole to put it a 5mm bolt which would form the earth connection, scraping the paint off the inside in order to get a good connection to a washer. Next to this are a nut, then a 5mm hoop connector sandwiched between two more washers, then another nut and locking nut to keep it all tight. 

I took the 3m straight cable from the store and cut it shorter (getting rid of some unnecessary connector at the end too) then fed the wire into the back plate of the CTH and crimped it into the 5mm hoop connector (see photo). So on the outside you see an extra white cable going into the back and an extra bolt head.

Then the other end of this ground cable connects into the mains plug, real handy.

It works great - before with the 6C8G tube there was a substantial hum when using my B&W P7s. Touching my finger on the case would reduce this by about half, but probably because it’s still a fairly bad ground. Using this ground mod cuts the noise by about 80-90%. There’s still some static hiss audible when music isn’t playing, or in quiet sections, but it’s minimal and the hum is gone.

Since the ground cable connects into the mains plug with a little push/pull connector I can easily pull the ground cable in and out and note the difference - it’s quite substantial.

So @Zachik if you’re still keen to use the 6C8G tube and Campfire Cascades, based on my experience this should pretty much fix it. Certainly for me it went from basically unlistenable hum to a minimal level of hiss.

Over the next few weeks I should be able to clock up quite a few listening hours and get back to enjoying the CTH


----------



## Zachik

someyoungguy said:


> Okay so I finally got around to doing this “ground mod”.
> 
> After some looking around I found this store that sells “grounding/earthing” gear: https://www.groundology.co.uk/
> 
> ...


VERY nice!
For now, I have been using it with stock tube and when used with 6C8G - with the HD600 which is not humming (due to high impedance...)

*I will definitely consider this mode. Thanks for sharing!*


----------



## Bazirker

someyoungguy said:


> Okay so I finally got around to doing this “ground mod”.
> 
> After some looking around I found this store that sells “grounding/earthing” gear: https://www.groundology.co.uk/
> 
> ...



Well hell, I completely ignored the whole discussion of the 6C8G due to the hum (plus I'm currently enjoying my Tungsram PCC88) but if it's just a grounding issue as demonstrated by the above, I might have to give this a go.  I've never been one to miss an excuse to pull out my power drill


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 1, 2018)

Marlowe said:


> I can't speak to the Lyr 3 or the LCD-2C since I have not heard them (though I have a lot of other Schiit gear and am very happy with each one), but I use the CTH (with an adapter and NOS Tung-Sol 2C51) with the Mimby and Sennheiser HD700 and the combination sounds great.



Do you find that tube reduces the bright quality of the hd700 more so than the stock ?

Edit: the stock tube definitely helped the fatigue, but I realized now I just don't really like the hd700 much after listening to the hd600. 

I really like the sdac +CTH combination with my GMP 8.35d. Sound is very lively and the GMP's love that crisp articulation from the SDAC. Not sure if I'll ever put the Mimby with my CTH again, have to see if I like it with my hd600, otherwise they will be forever seperated!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sad to see this thread go dark. Lol.


----------



## KaiserTK

Honestly even after getting the LP, the CTH gets a lot of time with the 6XX. I still feel that synergy is one of the best sounding combinations I’ve ever heard. Also for $450? A no-brainer.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

HD600 with the CTH & Mimby Eitr have me trying to sell my HD700.. and maybe most of my other headphones


----------



## Guidostrunk

My cth , mimby, 58x , have me questioning all my previous purchases. I honestly can't tell you a previous rig I've owned that I've enjoyed music more with. 
I've had this rig for 7 months now. In the past I would have switched something up by now. I absolutely feel no need to lol.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I'm looking forward to seeing the Airist Dac return to Massdrop next year, however beyond that I continue to question if my desire for a balanced system is necessary.

I'm actually surprised that I've had this amp for two months now, I certainly stopped counting the days after I burnt in the tube.


----------



## jrhill

If you were to organize a good quality linear power supply (28V @ >360mA) this will give another quite dramatic improvement in the sound too


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I finally plugged my Dac into the wall instead of my power strip.. lol what a difference. thank god mac chargers are so long


----------



## buke9

KaiserTK said:


> Honestly even after getting the LP, the CTH gets a lot of time with the 6XX. I still feel that synergy is one of the best sounding combinations I’ve ever heard. Also for $450? A no-brainer.


 I think the CTH and 6xx’s is great also I think the Bottlehead Crack is a bit better with them but not by huge margins.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks, I gotta tell you. Using an external power supply with this amp puts it in an entirely different level of SQ! 
I purchased a used Acopian A28mt300 for $35 shipped. It looks like someone was bowling with it , but it works flawlessly, and I saved a good bit of money. Besides, you never see the power supply anyway.

This amp is a beast now. Way more transparent. The expansion in dimensionality, and space is off the charts. Bass extends way down, with insane impact and slam now. Mids and treble integrate with precision and fluidity presenting a much more realistic and lifelike presentation. 

I totally went into it pessimistic. Thinking that it would be a miniscule change and then I'm stuck with this ugly power supply under my desk. Well, that's not the case! It sounds nothing like the amp with the walwart. 
I'm totally blown away! @atomicbob has an entire writeup on the subject at a different place in which I'm not allowed to mention. Just google MCTH Acopian, and you'll find it.

Cheers folks!


----------



## Sekka

Guidostrunk said:


> Folks, I gotta tell you. Using an external power supply with this amp puts it in an entirely different level of SQ!
> I purchased a used Acopian A28mt300 for $35 shipped. It looks like someone was bowling with it , but it works flawlessly, and I saved a good bit of money. Besides, you never see the power supply anyway.
> 
> This amp is a beast now. Way more transparent. The expansion in dimensionality, and space is off the charts. Bass extends way down, with insane impact and slam now. Mids and treble integrate with precision and fluidity presenting a much more realistic and lifelike presentation.
> ...



Would you say it's a more noticeable change than rolling with 6C8G tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

No tube has come close to making a change like this LPS. I'd put the MCTH/wLPS up against anything under 1k. 
If you like that 6c8g. You should give the 12at7/ECC81 with adapter a try. I'm currently using a Telefunken 12at7 w/ adapter. 
You get the same Soundstage as 6c8g, with more depth. And the magic of the best 2c51/396a. The 12at7/6201/ecc81 are way more transparent, with the best bass out of any tube I've ever rolled. 


Sekka said:


> Would you say it's a more noticeable change than rolling with 6C8G tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

If I were to buy another power supply. I'd buy this lab model, and offer $65. With shipping you're looking at  $100. Same LPS that @atomicbob uses in his writeup. For the price it's a steal. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113551487386


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Guidostrunk said:


> If I were to buy another power supply. I'd buy this lab model, and offer $65. With shipping you're looking at  $100. Same LPS that @atomicbob uses in his writeup. For the price it's a steal.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113551487386



I'm interested in getting the most out of my CTH, but I have no knowledge of how to use this device. Would you mind at least pointing me in the right direction of how to use this thing?


----------



## jrhill

I've used a number of different power supplies with this amp and, as you'd expect, different tastes of sound support different quality of Linear Power Supplies, different valves, different headphones.

I'm using an AMB regulated supply with that 'tombstone' 6cg8 valve (or tube, if you want) and the total sound is quite dependent on the reg's output capacitor - I would expect this to be similar to other high quality supplies - there are some 'ready-built' supplies but they tend to be nearly as expensive as this whole amplifier - this one seems to be very good value for money and will benefit from adding a good quality cap on the power supplies' output terminals


----------



## jrhill

Oh yeah, the Tung Sol version of the 6C8G, not the RCA - a bit expensive unfortunately.


----------



## jrhill

Oh, forgot to add, I enlarged the hole to 38mm so the 6F8G/6C8G converter socket could directly plug into the pcb instead of using the extension socket ...  I thought the 6c8g has a clearer heavier bass response than the Siemens PCC88 and a more detailed background too

 IMO, it's still one of the best 'bang-for-the-buck' headamps available - this one has run nearly continuously (24/7) for the last 10 months without missing a beat and fills out the sound of the k701/2 extrememty well too.


----------



## horaspaul

OK, so I and a bunch of newbies have bought into this Massdrop. 

I love the reviews of this amp but am wondering whether there is a better power source than the included one? 

Newbies need to learn the value of a "linear power supply" but have no clue what it is or where we can get one. 

When my M/CTH arrives next week, we'll start using it with the included wall-wart. 

Any other options for a LPS?


----------



## jrhill

Not sure what a 'newbie' is really so a bit hard to suggest you build you're own using an assembled tested pcb as a base but involves working with mains power and this isn't something everyone's comfortable doing properly/safely.

Ready made - there's plenty of people that can provide good quality linear power supplies and it depends on the $s you have available and how far down the 'rabbit-hole' you want to go - plus, many people that are into this sort of upgrade have quite definite opinions about "good quality" or "good value for $s"

Some people aren't too keen on buying anything built in China but like most things, "it depends" - there are quite a few linear power supplies available from China that'll do the job very well indeed but you may need to ask for the slightly higher voltage this amp requires (28 volts at 360mA) -  most of them only go up to 24volts dc

One of the 'good ones' is based around the ZeroZone Betta 11 pcb that is a version of the AMB Sigma 11 circuit that has been an excellent unit for this amplifier.   There are a number of laboratory power supplies that'll also do a very good job and often cheaper too - I hope my rambling is of some help.

I'm not sure if the guys at Massdrop are designing a linear power supply - I'm pretty sure it'd be a big seller.


----------



## horaspaul

Okay, I got my MCTH yesterday, burned it in overnight and did some listening this evening. 
Hooked up to the Schiit Fulla 2 DAC, it turned itself off playing Earl Klugh, "A Time for Love," on Amazon music listening through Sennheiser 58x.
Hooked up to the headphone jack only on the same laptop, the MCTH again turned itself off playing Earl Klugh, "A Time for Love," on Amazon music listening through Sennheiser 58x.
It was the same source, a Dell Inspiron, same tune, and it triggered some "off" switch on the MCTH. 
Any ideas why this is? 
Paul


----------



## joeike

Did the LED turn from white to red when it turns off?sounds like the protection circuit is being triggered maybe try different set of headphones just to eliminate them first.also check to see if the tube is in all the way sometimes it's kind of hard to tell they could be in partially and may need to be gently receipt it.


----------



## joeike

Haven't seen too many reviews for this unit but here's what I just found.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Feb 5, 2019)

Back after Guido helped me hook up that lps off ebay. Had an Amperex Orange Globe A frame mailed in last week and to me there's a clear difference. The Amperex sounds euphoric and quite wet. The biggest drawback vs the EH 6922 is that the bass slam on the Amperex is not as big ( it's added wetness is appreciated on my Elex) but not a highlight like the vocals. It's a nice amount a bass, but not enough to make the HD600 slam like the EH can. The EH tube is significantly better at presenting the detail of the source, but forgoes some musicality in pursuit of that.


----------



## SmashBruh (Feb 7, 2019)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Back after Guido helped me hook up that lps off ebay. Had an Amperex Orange Globe A frame mailed in last week and to me there's a clear difference. The Amperex sounds euphoric and quite wet. The biggest drawback vs the EH 6922 is that the bass slam on the Amperex is not as big ( it's added wetness is appreciated on my Elex) but not a highlight like the vocals. It's a nice amount a bass, but not enough to make the HD600 slam like the EH can. The EH tube is significantly better at presenting the detail of the source, but forgoes some musicality in pursuit of that.



Could you or Guido perhaps offer some info on how to use that PSU? (Or better yet, if @*Guidostrunk *could point me in the right direction of how he hooked up his Acopian that'd be awesome as I found one for around the same price of the linked PSU.) My CTH will be arriving next week and I too would absolutely love to get the most bang for my buck out of this thing but that device is quite intimidating to me (I'd hate to accidentally blow my nice new Amp!) Also, would upgrading the PS be necessary or just recommended if I decided to roll a 6C8G tube? (The sound of the Tung Sol tubes intrigues me!)


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

SmashBruh said:


> Could you or Guido perhaps offer some info on how to use that PSU? (Or better yet, if @*Guidostrunk *could point me in the right direction of how he hooked up his Acopian that'd be awesome as I found one for around the same price of the linked PSU.) My CTH will be arriving next week and I too would absolutely love to get the most bang for my buck out of this thing but that device is quite intimidating to me (I'd hate to accidentally blow my nice new Amp!) Also, would upgrading the PS be necessary or just recommended if I decided to roll a 6C8G tube? (The sound of the Tung Sol tubes intrigues me!)



You don't need it for the tube rolling, but it makes the difference of tubes more pronounced imo. You're using the Acopian A28mt300? I can send you some extra supplies I got for mine. Hope I didn't throw you to the wolves Guido! Just didn't want to take credit like I had any clue where to start on my own haha.


----------



## jasonho (Feb 12, 2019)

Wonder how will this tube sound on CTH.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Siemens CCa is a fantastic 6922 variant. If you like details, nice 3D soundstage, deep impactful bass. This tube is for you if you stay in the 6922 family. Siemens CCa was too bright of a tube for my taste. I much preferred the Valvo CCa. 

With that said. There are far better tubes that require adapters. 2c51/396a, 6c8g, 12at7 are far superior than the best 6922 variants imo. 
All subjective though.
Cheers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't stress it enough folks. An external LPS takes this amp to an unbelievable level of SQ. I contemplated on selling my CTH to get a Liquid platinum. After adding the acopian a28mt300 , I'm definitely not selling the CTH now. I honestly don't think the extra $500 will get me much better if at all.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't stress it enough folks. An external LPS takes this amp to an unbelievable level of SQ. I contemplated on selling my CTH to get a Liquid platinum. After adding the acopian a28mt300 , I'm definitely not selling the CTH now. I honestly don't think the extra $500 will get me much better if at all.


That LPS is pricey... cost as much as the CTH or more! 
(unless you find a good deal on used unit...)
Also, did you create a custom cable to power the CTH?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I found my a28mt300 for $35 shipped. Lol. Granted it looks like someone was playing rugby with it, but it's tucked away out of sight and works flawlessly. 
There's a lab LPS that can be had for about $100. Same one @atomicbob used in his testing. An offer of $65 , and you're good to go bro. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113634380555


Zachik said:


> That LPS is pricey... cost as much as the CTH or more!
> (unless you find a good deal on used unit...)
> Also, did you create a custom cable to power the CTH?


----------



## horaspaul

This place sells 28v linear power supplies: 
https://www.mouser.com/Power/Power-Supplies/Linear-Power-Supplies/_/N-brwqi?P=1yzxqrrZ1yxt76p
Anything on that website useful?
Paul


----------



## jrhill

I see a few people mention that Linear power supplies cost a lot more money than the little switch mode devices and this is quite true, no doubt about it.  However, this is one of those devices where spending a good few $s gets a really excellent return if you're looking for a better sound than the original purchase - it seems these cheap (USA, anyway) labs supply do the job quite well and this is pretty unusual

 I got a couple of cheap variable lab supplies in from China (variable voltage/current/etc) and they're rather good for workshop/testing but are not the best for this amp even adding an extra capacitor on the power supply terminals but still a whole lot better than the little unit that is supplied with the amp - a dedicated power supply will probably cost more than the amp itself and this is a fairly normal situation - good power supplies cost good $s 

I use Canare 1609 for power between external power supply and amplifier - just use 2 of the 4 available conductors to fit onto the small line plug - I replaced this with a 'proper' plug/socket too 
I'm waiting for "vt4c" to reopen after their New Year to get one of their 'tube guards' as the 6C8G is a bit exposed even with the new bigger hole on top of the case (enlarged it to 38mm)  for the single change socket (6c8g -> 6922)

One thing that doesn't get much of a mention is the quality of the audio signal feeding this amp - as the supply, etc improves, so must the quality of the music signal - if not, sometimes a better amp will actually sound worse, not better.  I've seen this quite often when people lay out a considerable sum and go 'high end' with Stax gear and are sometimes quite disappointed in the result, and not just the venerable Stax either.

Just like anything to do with audio, what suits one person doesn't suit another so keep in mind that my 'mutterings' are just my opinions ….


----------



## Guidostrunk

The IHC-28 , first one on the page can be used. You don't have to pay $70+ shipping for it. Offer $30 and it ships free as well.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202503727363
Cheers!


horaspaul said:


> This place sells 28v linear power supplies:
> https://www.mouser.com/Power/Power-Supplies/Linear-Power-Supplies/_/N-brwqi?P=1yzxqrrZ1yxt76p
> Anything on that website useful?
> Paul


----------



## horaspaul

OK, but I'm not an electrical engineer and so forth. How does one manufacture a cable from the mCTH to the wall? 
Or, does the IHC-28 go between the mCTH power supply and the wall? 
Break this down for non-technical folks...
Paul


----------



## Guidostrunk

Your wallwart is obsolete with an LPS. I used a PC cable I had laying around, and cut off the female and exposing the black, white, and green wires.
On the LPS it should be marked:
+= Black wire(2 amp in line barrel fuse)
- = White wire
Ground is the green wire.

The output from the LPS should be marked "+ & -" output which will run to the amp.

If anyone happens to purchase an LPS , I have no problem walking anyone through the hookup process. I can give you a list of items you'll need for making the connections. Just send me a pm.

Cheers!


----------



## Arctairix

Has anyone listened to the CTH+SDAC with the LCD-2C? I currently have a Magni/Modi stack as well as a Liquid Spark and was wondering if it would worth selling it all and getting the CTH+SDAC.


----------



## Focux

Would I be better off waiting for the THX AAA789 or this CTH would suffice?

Will pair with 650 and perhaps LCD X or Aeolus

Intend to use Mojo as dac tho..


----------



## joeike

Focux said:


> Would I be better off waiting for the THX AAA789 or this CTH would suffice?
> 
> Will pair with 650 and perhaps LCD X or Aeolus
> 
> Intend to use Mojo as dac tho..


Depends if you're looking for a little bit of tube sound mine sounds very nice very clean I've read that the AAA 789 is very analytical .I use  my CTH with t50rp Mach 2 T-XO drives them very well up around 12 o'clock on the dial and using a schiit multi-bit DAC.


----------



## Zachik

Owning also Cavalli's LP, and following both threads - I was wondering:
Did anyone try to roll 12AU7 tube? Several people reported very good results with the LP...
(I know 12AU7 -> 6922 adapter would be needed)

@runeight Alex - what's your take? Safe / "approved" roll?


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Owning also Cavalli's LP, and following both threads - I was wondering:
> Did anyone try to roll 12AU7 tube? Several people reported very good results with the LP...
> (I know 12AU7 -> 6922 adapter would be needed)
> 
> @runeight Alex - what's your take? Safe / "approved" roll?



Well, first, to repeat perhaps too many times, I can't speak for MP and their warranty policies. 

But, the LP is not really designed to handle a tube which, IIRC, has an op point so far from 6922. My guess is that if the LP could bring itself to a proper operating point (meaning basically 0VDC at the output), the amp would be stressed to do this.

Keep in mind that the internals are set to reach a "design center" operating condition and they are designed to handle reasonable variances around the design center for variations in 6922s. The full range of the LP can handle larger variations than this, but this leads to more power dissipation and higher stress on some of the components. So while it can bring wider variations into center it doesn't expect to stay there and only expects to see those conditions during start up while it is zeroing out the DC and settling everything else.

MHO is that there is risk to do this roll that may not appear immediately.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Well, first, to repeat perhaps too many times, I can't speak for MP and their warranty policies.
> 
> But, the LP is not really designed to handle a tube which, IIRC, has an op point so far from 6922. My guess is that if the LP could bring itself to a proper operating point (meaning basically 0VDC at the output), the amp would be stressed to do this.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex.
How about 396A / 2C51 (again, with the proper adapter to 6922) ?  My understanding is that THIS one is much closer in spec to 6922 and therefore much smaller risk of long-term stress / damage?


----------



## runeight

Zachik said:


> Thanks Alex.
> How about 396A / 2C51 (again, with the proper adapter to 6922) ?  My understanding is that THIS one is much closer in spec to 6922 and therefore much smaller risk of long-term stress / damage?



As you can see I thought I was in the Platinum thread, but the same analysis still roughly applies. I'll be back.....


----------



## Focux (Feb 18, 2019)

joeike said:


> Depends if you're looking for a little bit of tube sound mine sounds very nice very clean I've read that the AAA 789 is very analytical .I use  my CTH with t50rp Mach 2 T-XO drives them very well up around 12 o'clock on the dial and using a schiit multi-bit DAC.


 

I guess I like my music true to source/recording; so that means solid state would be better?

What I did w my 650 now is to EQ a mild V to it and run it via Mojo. Sounds awesome w details being more pronounced. Do kinda wonder if I should have gone w the AKG KXX Red

Which multi bit r u using btw?


----------



## joeike

Focux said:


> I guess I like my music true to source/recording; so that means solid state would be better?
> 
> What I did w my 650 now is to EQ a mild V to it and run it via Mojo. Sounds awesome w details being more pronounced. Do kinda wonder if I should have gone w the AKG KXX Red
> 
> Which multi bit r u using btw?


I'm using the modi 3 Multibit DAC with the schiit SYS to switch line inputs to the CTH or the Basx A-100 amp .IMO the CTH has a true sound even with the stock 6922 tube.I also use The AKG 553 pro cans & love the match up.
I don't EQ but maybe I'll give it a go.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> As you can see I thought I was in the Platinum thread, but the same analysis still roughly applies. *I'll be back....*.


----------



## jasonho

When using the CCA tube, i can a faint humming sound that may get stronger or softer.  I am not sure if its the cable/electronic interference or the tube is too strong for CTH.

Can anyone advise?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks. Here's an absolute steal for these Tung-sol 6C8G if you're interested. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173788888639


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Wondering if any CTH + ZMF Dynamic owners could chime in on why this amp seems to have such good synergy with ZMF cans. 

My Atticus is in order, and for $250, I’m really tempted to see what this combo is all about. 

I know this is probably the most newbish statement of recent times, but could it have anything to do with this size of the tube (I see a lot of other hybrids using smaller tubes)?

Thanks!!!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Has any had trouble using the Acopian A28NT125 power supply?

Does any have a picture of this unit in their setup? I want to see how you handled the exposed connections ... Which is my only issue in giving this a try

Thanks


----------



## horaspaul

Guidostrunk said:


> Your wallwart is obsolete with an LPS. I used a PC cable I had laying around, and cut off the female and exposing the black, white, and green wires.
> On the LPS it should be marked:
> += Black wire(2 amp in line barrel fuse)
> - = White wire
> ...


I just bought the International Power supply that Guido mentioned. He sent me a list of parts (doesn't look expensive) but I have no experience with manufacturing electrical stuff. Do I have to know how to solder? I wonder whether I could find a local electrician to put one together for me?
This is a great project though!
Paul


----------



## buke9

horaspaul said:


> I just bought the International Power supply that Guido mentioned. He sent me a list of parts (doesn't look expensive) but I have no experience with manufacturing electrical stuff. Do I have to know how to solder? I wonder whether I could find a local electrician to put one together for me?
> This is a great project though!
> Paul


 Soldering is not that hard and you can get a iron for like $15 that will do just fine with most tasks.


----------



## Endless_Chris

I just picked up this guy for my CTH and I think it sounds great! Very pleased with my purchase and it's relatively inexpensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-6...m4aee8a6d9d:g:C5kAAOSwMmBVygr0&frcectupt=true


----------



## JerryLeeds

Thank you for the info ... I just placed an order for one ...


----------



## Endless_Chris (Mar 16, 2019)

I was just messaged by another member with some questions as to my experience with that LPS I linked so I figured I'd answer them here. First of all is the size comparisons. I have the LPS on the left next to my CTH and Mytek Liberty DAC. 
  
(Please excuse my egregious lack of cable management lol)
Very comparable in size and design, they all go together well. In regards to changes in sound, I heard it immidiately. No need to A/B back and forth. I have a number of test tracks that I listen to when ever I make component changes, always the same songs so I have a base line to compare. The #1 thing that hit my ears was a marked change in energy and speed. My HD600's just came alive. Now I'm very sensitive to changes in soundstage and imaging. Constriction or dampening of that aspect is probably my number one reason for rejecting components in my system. There were no changes on that front, which to me is a great thing. Possibly better definition of instruments in space if you really pressed me but nothing that is overwhelming. I was just pleased that nothing was detracted. I'm very happy over all and at like $120 shipped to my door (really fast too, I was surprised) it was a worthwile experiment. I think I'm going to order another for my Mytek! Now there are a few sellers on Ebay that are using the same pictures and description, I can't speak as to that product. Maybe they are related and are pulling from the same stock, I have no idea. This is the seller I bought from and I can speak to that unit. If you try one out just make sure to specify your wall voltage and output voltage!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-65VA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-Power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-etc/321829629341?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## horaspaul

Did you literally just take it out of the box and plug it into your CTH?. Is the plug an exact match for the one that comes with the CTH wall wart? Did you ask the seller specifically whether it would work with the CTH?
I was thinking of building an LPS but this could be a game changer...
Paul


----------



## Endless_Chris

It is the same size. The unit ships by default with a 2.1mm plug. I just made sure to order the 28v unit.


----------



## jrhill

There's another power supply from these guys that uses a version of the well known AMB 'Sigma 11' regulator inside and is quite a bit better in specs, but just a little bit better in actual performance - it's also a lot more expensive!  This version does an amazing job of improving the sound and is 'plug & play' - if you select the 28v setting, it comes already adjusted, I think.

As you can expect, there's no end to the mods and changes to this little headamp but apart from the power supply and a different valve (plus a socket, perhaps) that's about it.  I've gone to a fair bit of effort and increased the hole on the top of the case to fit a tube changing socket (now using a Tung Sol 6C8G), built a Sigma 11 power supply plus a different connecting cable (not much difference there) and fed it a decent signal - I found that the Senn 650s did come alive and even the AKG 701s took on a new live, particularly in the bass area, and the HiFiman 'phones are excellent all aver, so I think these changes, especially with any of the power supplies, will be well worth the effort.


----------



## Zachik

Endless_Chris said:


> It is the same size. The unit ships by default with a 2.1mm plug. I just made sure to order the 28v unit.


Do you know if these guys offer a dual or triple (different voltage) LPS solutions?
I would love to have a single LPS (granted physically bigger and more expensive) to drive my: LCX, CTH and RDAC... Would help AC outlet "situation" and cable management, too!


----------



## jasonho

Zachik said:


> Do you know if these guys offer a dual or triple (different voltage) LPS solutions?
> I would love to have a single LPS (granted physically bigger and more expensive) to drive my: LCX, CTH and RDAC... Would help AC outlet "situation" and cable management, too!



I have asked, their response is : its possible!  For dual output, case may be similar size.  I asked for a dual output to both my CTH and Hugo and they mentioned its possible to do both 28v & 5v .  I would imagine its also possible to do 3, just maybe bigger case.


----------



## jrhill

Don't forget that the single power supply, even with different voltage regulators, will interact with each other to some extent and this will depend on the requirements of each connected device.  I don't know the current consumption of the Hugo, but you might keep it in mind - the CTH draws about 360mA (0.35A) at 28 volts (about 10VA)


----------



## runeight

Hey folks, I would like to add a slight word of caution............

All of the SMPS Cavalli amps rely to more or less degree on the current limiting characteristics of the supplied SMPS. I your LPS has huge capacitors at its output or does not properly current limit you run the risk of blowing out the power circuits in these amps.

There was quite an extensive discussion about this on the Liquid Platinum thread.

I just wanted to let you know of this possibility.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@atomicbob has a an entire thread on LPS for the MCTH elsewhere on the Internet. I would recommend that people stick with what's mentioned in the thread. I took his advice on an acopian , and am extremely happy with my purchase. No issues whatsoever.


----------



## Zachik

runeight said:


> Hey folks, I would like to add a slight word of caution............
> 
> All of the SMPS Cavalli amps rely to more or less degree on the current limiting characteristics of the supplied SMPS. I your LPS has huge capacitors at its output or does not properly current limit you run the risk of blowing out the power circuits in these amps.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex. Hopefully, Massdrop and Monoprice would eventually offer LPS for their Cavalli amps...
For me personally, in big part I am looking for a solution for a single box to power multiple amps for both better sound but also (power) cable management.
But I am taking your warning very seriously, and would wait a little longer (hoping for some "official" / approved solution).


----------



## Anaz

runeight said:


> Hey folks, I would like to add a slight word of caution............
> 
> All of the SMPS Cavalli amps rely to more or less degree on the current limiting characteristics of the supplied SMPS. I your LPS has huge capacitors at its output or does not properly current limit you run the risk of blowing out the power circuits in these amps.
> 
> ...



Just for those not in the know, *runeight* is *Alex Cavalli*, so take his advice seriously.


----------



## SmashBruh

So, I've been trying to get my setup ready for the Tung-Sol 6C8G tube roll, however I'm having a bit of difficulty with the tube monger socket savers. The first one I got made a lot of sputtering when plugged in with the 6922 tube and no sound was playing. I returned it and got another one and this one is better but I still notice some minor sputtering with the new one. This issue is not present when the socket saver is not in place and I'm a little embarrassed to ask for a second replacement. The guys at tubemonger were very nice and prompt with their replacement and said defective units were exceedingly rare, so I don't know what's going on. Is this sort of noise normal with socket savers or something? I don't generally notice it when music is playing; however I really don't like that it's there...


----------



## jrhill

You might find that the 'saver doesn't go fully into the base socket so there might be a poor connection - I ended up enlarging the hole on the top of the case (to 38mm) so the convertor socket would fit directly into the socket on the pcb so the base of the 6C8G now sits flush with the top surface of the case - I've been waiting for 'vt4c' to reopen their website to purchase a 'tube guard' at a reasonable price - most of the eBay sites are ridiculous prices

 I think the TungSol 6c8g is the better version but only compared with the Marconi - either of them have a difference balance to the Siemens PCC88 tube, but this is about personal taste too - the original EH is quite okay, but I like to play around a bit - the power supply is where the big difference is created

IMO again, this headamp is fast becoming a legend, and still relatively inexpensive even with a linear power supply.


----------



## SmashBruh

jrhill said:


> You might find that the 'saver doesn't go fully into the base socket so there might be a poor connection - I ended up enlarging the hole on the top of the case (to 38mm) so the convertor socket would fit directly into the socket on the pcb so the base of the 6C8G now sits flush with the top surface of the case - I've been waiting for 'vt4c' to reopen their website to purchase a 'tube guard' at a reasonable price - most of the eBay sites are ridiculous prices
> 
> I think the TungSol 6c8g is the better version but only compared with the Marconi - either of them have a difference balance to the Siemens PCC88 tube, but this is about personal taste too - the original EH is quite okay, but I like to play around a bit - the power supply is where the big difference is created
> 
> IMO again, this headamp is fast becoming a legend, and still relatively inexpensive even with a linear power supply.



I actually ended up discovering what was introducing the noise! It was the wifi adaptor in my room that was making the tube make that awful sputtering. Putting a box filled with CDs right next to the tube seems to fix the issue completely, so that's what I'm doing until I can figure out a more permanent solution. Also, my Tung-Sol 6c8g arrived yesterday and I have to say that switching to it was a bit of a shock! I don't really know what I was expecting but it's so nice to not have my music sound so clinical while auditioning the Focal Clears. I can't wait to get home and listen to it some more!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested. I have a spare Tung-sol 6C8G , with an adapter that I'll part with. $35 shipped and fees. Shoot me a pm if interested. Also have a 50's 6N3P Foton triple mica(best 5670/396a variant hands down) with an adapter. This tube is extremely hard to find. $30 shipped and fees if interested as well. 

Cheers!


----------



## jrhill

Well that's a different problem indeed - definitely worth keeping it in mind elsewhere - novel solution -  who would expect that!

The TS 6c8g does take quite a few hours to 'come good' altho not at all bad straight away - the detail will improve and the bass will cleanup a lot.

Could you send me a PM where you got the TS tube from, as I'm looking for a spare and they've already shot up in price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Interesting post. To say the least. Cheers 





jrhill said:


> Well that's a different problem indeed - definitely worth keeping it in mind elsewhere - novel solution -  who would expect that!
> 
> The TS 6c8g does take quite a few hours to 'come good' altho not at all bad straight away - the detail will improve and the bass will cleanup a lot.
> 
> Could you send me a PM where you got the TS tube from, as I'm looking for a spare and they've already shot up in price.


----------



## jasonho

Endless_Chris said:


> I was just messaged by another member with some questions as to my experience with that LPS I linked so I figured I'd answer them here. First of all is the size comparisons. I have the LPS on the left next to my CTH and Mytek Liberty DAC.
> (Please excuse my egregious lack of cable management lol)
> Very comparable in size and design, they all go together well. In regards to changes in sound, I heard it immidiately. No need to A/B back and forth. I have a number of test tracks that I listen to when ever I make component changes, always the same songs so I have a base line to compare. The #1 thing that hit my ears was a marked change in energy and speed. My HD600's just came alive. Now I'm very sensitive to changes in soundstage and imaging. Constriction or dampening of that aspect is probably my number one reason for rejecting components in my system. There were no changes on that front, which to me is a great thing. Possibly better definition of instruments in space if you really pressed me but nothing that is overwhelming. I was just pleased that nothing was detracted. I'm very happy over all and at like $120 shipped to my door (really fast too, I was surprised) it was a worthwile experiment. I think I'm going to order another for my Mytek! Now there are a few sellers on Ebay that are using the same pictures and description, I can't speak as to that product. Maybe they are related and are pulling from the same stock, I have no idea. This is the seller I bought from and I can speak to that unit. If you try one out just make sure to specify your wall voltage and output voltage!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-65VA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-Power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-etc/321829629341?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Thanks to Chris recommendation.  Just received mine.  Plugged in and wow !


----------



## Endless_Chris

jasonho said:


> Thanks to Chris recommendation.  Just received mine.  Plugged in and wow !


I'm glad you're digging it and my ears weren't playing tricks on me lol. What cable are you using there for the connection? My provided DC cable wasn't sleeved like that...


----------



## jasonho

Endless_Chris said:


> I'm glad you're digging it and my ears weren't playing tricks on me lol. What cable are you using there for the connection? My provided DC cable wasn't sleeved like that...



I am using the one that comes with the package. 

 
I forget to mention that I actually got the LPS from a diff seller.   

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.sg/ulk/itm/113042445481


----------



## Endless_Chris (Mar 26, 2019)

jasonho said:


> I am using the one that comes with the package.
> 
> 
> I forget to mention that I actually got the LPS from a diff seller.
> ...



Hmmm, that is an R-core type LPS but that's definitely a different model from the one I purchased. The LED, case orientation and internals are all different. The listing also calls out CTH and Alex Cavelli with the propduct description having been last edited on March 18th. I bet you they saw this thread and changed the description to lure potential buyers. Not saying there is anything physically wrong with it, just thought that was worth mentioning. How do you feel about the sound?


----------



## jasonho (Mar 26, 2019)

yea. The seller created this auction specifically for CTH , probably due to numerous custom requests.

Sound wise definitely one up vs the original power adapter.  Bass is harder and faster.  More energy too.


----------



## jrhill

This is another version of the AMB Sigma 11 regulator by Zerozone - this one uses the film cap on the output and good quality components - a bit of a bargain at this price

[notice that the photo shows the Sigma 22 (or their S22 designation) that provides both '+' and ' -' voltages (see the IRF9Z34 fets)


----------



## jrhill

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested. I have a spare Tung-sol 6C8G , with an adapter that I'll part with. $35 shipped and fees. Shoot me a pm if interested. Also have a 50's 6N3P Foton triple mica(best 5670/396a variant hands down) with an adapter. This tube is extremely hard to find. $30 shipped and fees if interested as well.
> 
> Cheers!


Hi, I would like to buy your Tung Sol 6c8g spare tube and the adapter too - would you be able to send it to me here in Victoria, Australia?  And the cost?


----------



## Hay2104

I got the Cavalli LCX with Grace Dac from MD not too long ago. It is no longer with me for a couple of reasons. 

Sound Tonality-  fits well with the hd 600 or brighter headphones. Otherwise the amp adds a tonality that reminds me of a tube amp I tried but to a lesser degree. 

Build- beautiful looking chassis, but the SDAC component I received had issues that prevented connectivity with all my devices. The amp had problems of its own. 

Volume pot- please, headphone amp makers don’t ruin the quality of your product with a noisy volume pot. All around scratchy noise with even the slightest of turning on the volume knob. It is especially noticeable on the hd 600. 

If anyone here is still looking for this amp, IMO make sure to verify that the integrated dac is of good quality and that the volume noise doesn’t make loud scratching noises each time it’s turned.


----------



## SmashBruh (Apr 2, 2019)

So, I'd say my tube is about 30 hours burned in or so and holy crap! What a difference! Every time I go to listen to this Tung-Sol it impresses me more and more. It's  made my HD650s come alive in a way I hadn't thought possible with an amp of this price!
I know at this point I'm merely echoing what everyone else has said; however it really deserves to be repeated: If you get this amp please consider the 6c8G and LPS mods! They're so incredibly impressive!

I decided to return the Focal Clear as it was a bit bright for my tastes and I have a couple of ZMF headphones on the way now (the auteur and Atticus. I've auditioned them both and loved them.) One is mainly to be used at the office and when I can't be at my home set up, however I'm excited to try them both with the CTH!


----------



## Phantaminum

SmashBruh said:


> So, I'd say my tube is about 30 hours burned in or so and holy crap! What a difference! Every time I go to listen to this Tung-Sol it impresses me more and more. It's  made my HD650s come alive in a way I hadn't thought possible with an amp of this price!
> I know at this point I'm merely echoing what everyone else has said; however it really deserves to be repeated: If you get this amp please consider the 6c8G and LPS mods! They're so incredibly impressive!
> 
> I decided to return the Focal Clear as it was a bit bright for my tastes and I have a couple of ZMF headphones on the way now (the auteur and Atticus. I've auditioned them both and loved them.) One is mainly to be used at the office and when I can't be at my home set up, however I'm excited to try them both with the CTH!



The MCTH and Auteurs were one of my favorite pairings. If the Tung Sols and Auteurs are too bright for you the, try the Eikon Perforated pads. It hit the sweet spot for me.


----------



## minaise (Apr 4, 2019)

So, got my CTH+SDAC combo about a week ago and have 87h on it as of writing this. When nothing is playing i noticed that i have a slight blip of noise/diginoise or faint stutter kinda effect from time to time when scrolling on the internet. It gets more continous when i start running programs on PC. When music is playing i rarely notice it. Is it from dirty usb port/cable or is it ground related ? By the way tried with two different headphones and usb cables, mainly notice it in the left ear.


----------



## Anaz

minaise said:


> So, got my CTH+SDAC combo about a week ago and have 87h on it as of writing this. When nothing is playing i noticed that i have a slight blip of noise/diginoise or faint stutter kinda effect from time to time when scrolling on the internet. It gets more continous when i start running programs on PC. When music is playing i rarely notice it. Is it from dirty usb port/cable or is it ground related ? By the way tried with two different headphones and usb cables, mainly notice it in the left ear.



This sounds like a ground noise problem. Try plugging both your PC and CTH into the same outlet and see if the noise goes away. Otherwise, an iFi iDefender + external power supply into the iDefender (power needed for the SDAC) should solve your issue.


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 4, 2019)

*Background: *I've owned the Valhalla 2, Jot, Dragon Inspire OTL, Ragnarok, Magni 3, and Headbox amps. In my opinion I love this amp more than any of those. The closest I got to this much enjoyment was with the Dragon Inspire but it never got loud enough for me and the lack of dynamics was a problem for me which this amp doesn't run into.

I bought this amp used from one of our Forum members (will link later, just really tired lol) and the tube was burnt in already for 200 hours. Your mileage will greatly vary until you've put in at least 50 hours on your stock tube.

_Sound preference: _My sound preference is warm with great detail. The bass doesn't matter to me too much. I would say mids first and treble second. The Auteurs were basically my end game headphone in this dept for a long time.
*
Design: *Looks like a quality amp - I love the black it gives it a really nice professional audio look. The laser etched thick font Cavalli text provides a nice sharp contrast against the black and looks sleek. The volume knob on mine turns like silk to the point where I don't even think about what it's like to turn it anymore. I leave mine at 11 o clock with my LCD 2s.











*Sound:*

Bass - The bass is relatively well defined and not mushy and packs a bit of a punch especially with my LCD 2s. It's nowhere near as punchy as say something like a Jot or Bryston BHA-1 but it gets the point across.

Mids - this amp shines here. Not only in the smoothness and richness factor but the detail. Different vocal inflections are heard, background singers are more clearly present, and some liquidity is preserved. As the amp warms up mids can start to sound a little dry but that will depend on the headphone and tube. Already super liquid headphones like the Atticus, 650s, HE500s/560s won't run into this issue. I even run into this issue sometimes with my LCDs on neutral SS's like the Bryston or Headbox.

Treble - Relatively crisp but nothing to write home about. There is air and there is soundstage but the imaging is average. The treble takes a bit of a back seat in favor of a more laid back presentation. Tracks that do call for treble will get enough but it will never get sibilant. My tolerance for sibilance is high so YMMV. Honestly I'd go as far as to say as you'll get as much micro-detail as a similar hybrid design amp costing close to a $1k but it will take tradeoffs in other areas.

*Tube Rolling: *Can I just say the tube never gets more than warm to the touch? The whole unit never gets really hot which is a huge departure from full blown OTLs and even some SSs. Contrary to what some may say this does have a place for tube rolling and the changes can be heard if you have a transparent enough system. I only decided to tube roll one tube tonight as I wanted to get a feel for the stock tube. I rolled in the JJ Gold Pin which is a smoother JAN tube costing about $50 - modern production. The mids became a bit more forward and as a result you could hear the artist a little better but you lost some of the air and soundstage of the stock tube which actually improved the mid detail. Tradeoff for more lush mids I suppose. The bass also got a bit bloomier and less controlled. Treble air suffered quite a bit with this tube.










I'm looking to get some Sylvanias next to try what a lean tube would sound like - Bugle Boys would also be another alternative to help out in the air department. Quite frankly the stock tube is actually quite good as long as it's burnt in which luckily for me it already was.

In conclusion, I think this amp beats the Magni 3, Jot, Vali 2 and a lot of entry level amps. Depending on what you're looking for this may even compete with the likes of the Mjolnir 2 (not as bassy or mid forward though). This amp just gets out of the way, looks great and fits the part of a quality piece of audio gear.

This may sound crazy but I'm thinking of considering this as my end game amp - that's how much I enjoy it. I've owned amps costing 4x as much but this thing just lets me relax, enjoy the music, get some details along the way, and fall in love with headphones that I had begun to part ways from. For anyone who's curious - this amp pairs beautifully with Audeze's LCD 2F. I'll be getting an Elear this week so once it's in I'll provide my findings.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Whole heartedly agree! I've had more costly amps myself. I paired my cth with a 12at7 to 6922 adapter running a Telefunken ecc801s and an external acopian linear power supply and now I'm finished! Lol. Total investment was $300. I feel like I stole something lol 


hikaru12 said:


> *Background: *I've owned the Valhalla 2, Jot, Dragon Inspire OTL, Ragnarok, Magni 3, and Headbox amps. In my opinion I love this amp more than any of those. The closest I got to this much enjoyment was with the Dragon Inspire but it never got loud enough for me and the lack of dynamics was a problem for me which this amp doesn't run into.
> 
> I bought this amp used from one of our Forum members (will link later, just really tired lol) and the tube was burnt in already for 200 hours. Your mileage will greatly vary until you've put in at least 50 hours on your stock tube.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wheel Hoss

hikaru12 said:


> *Background: *I've owned the Valhalla 2, Jot, Dragon Inspire OTL, Ragnarok, Magni 3, and Headbox amps. In my opinion I love this amp more than any of those. The closest I got to this much enjoyment was with the Dragon Inspire but it never got loud enough for me and the lack of dynamics was a problem for me which this amp doesn't run into.
> 
> I bought this amp used from one of our Forum members (will link later, just really tired lol) and the tube was burnt in already for 200 hours. Your mileage will greatly vary until you've put in at least 50 hours on your stock tube.
> 
> ...



Can you talk about pairing with ZMFs?

Looking at options for my upcoming Atty.


----------



## minaise

YtseJamer said:


> How's the synergy with the Atticus ?





Hansotek said:


> 10/10 easy.... I feel like that's even selling it short. I popped it on about an hour ago and before the first song was over, my hands were trembling. The only non-OTL I've heard Atticus synergize this well with is the Liquid Crimson. CTH is not at that level across all areas, but Atticus can be a pretty picky headphone in my experience, and when you plug it into CTH business definitely picks up *substantially*. Frequency response balances out nicely, bass gains speed and clarity, the mids are simply outstanding and full of life, great level of punch. This is how the Atticus is supposed to sound. I am super impressed.


----------



## hikaru12

Wheel Hoss said:


> Can you talk about pairing with ZMFs?
> 
> Looking at options for my upcoming Atty.



The Atticus pairs really well - the mids retain their liquid wet nature while the 10k sparkle and micro-detail is improved. Soundstage is improved a bit with better separation. The blackground isn't as black as I'd like it to be (or I've heard it to be with a good rectifier on my Dragon when I had it). This could probably be improved with a LPS. I'm going to look into getting one at some point.



Guidostrunk said:


> external acopian linear power supply



What's the model on your LPS? I've seen a few ones touted on eBay but I wanted to go with a quality unit. I'm def looking into upgrading the tubes and 6SN7 tubes have ultra low distortion and with not being OTL I won't have to worry about losing power. Good call on that!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Acopian A28MT300 is what I'm using for a LPS. 
Regarding the 6sn7. I wouldn't use it in the cth. 350ma is the highest you can go. Unless you're willing to give it a go lol. 

Cheers


hikaru12 said:


> The Atticus pairs really well - the mids retain their liquid wet nature while the 10k sparkle and micro-detail is improved. Soundstage is improved a bit with better separation. The blackground isn't as black as I'd like it to be (or I've heard it to be with a good rectifier on my Dragon when I had it). This could probably be improved with a LPS. I'm going to look into getting one at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the model on your LPS? I've seen a few ones touted on eBay but I wanted to go with a quality unit. I'm def looking into upgrading the tubes and 6SN7 tubes have ultra low distortion and with not being OTL I won't have to worry about losing power. Good call on that!


----------



## hikaru12

Guidostrunk said:


> Acopian A28MT300 is what I'm using for a LPS.
> Regarding the 6sn7. I wouldn't use it in the cth. 350ma is the highest you can go. Unless you're willing to give it a go lol.
> 
> Cheers



Are the 12AT7's compataible? I know they can run at 12 and 6.3V. Is this amp auto-biasing? Thanks for the info on the model!


----------



## Guidostrunk

They work perfectly. No issues whatsoever. Also should have mentioned that I got my LPS on ebay. If you're patient , you can snag one for around $50. They do have an LPS on there from China that a few have bought on this thread. I think it'll run you around  $110


hikaru12 said:


> Are the 12AT7's compataible? I know they can run at 12 and 6.3V. Is this amp auto-biasing? Thanks for the info on the model!


----------



## SmashBruh (Apr 5, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> They work perfectly. No issues whatsoever. Also should have mentioned that I got my LPS on ebay. If you're patient , you can snag one for around $50. They do have an LPS on there from China that a few have bought on this thread. I think it'll run you around  $110


How would you say the Telefunken ecc801s compares to the Tung-Sol 6c8g?? I'm pretty satisfied with the latter but of course I'm always curious if there's something better out there lol.


----------



## Zachik

hikaru12 said:


> Are the 12AT7's compataible? I know they can run at 12 and 6.3V. Is this amp auto-biasing? Thanks for the info on the model!





Guidostrunk said:


> They work perfectly. No issues whatsoever.



@Guidostrunk which 12AT7 tubes do you like with the CTH?  So far, I have only used 6922 and 6C8G (with adapter)... Did not try 12AT7 (yet).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Comes down to preference. They both do things extremely well. 



SmashBruh said:


> How would you say the Telefunken ecc801s compares to the Tung-Sol 6c8g?? I'm pretty satisfied with the latter but of course I'm always curious if there's something better out there lol.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Endless_Chris said:


> I was just messaged by another member with some questions as to my experience with that LPS I linked so I figured I'd answer them here. First of all is the size comparisons. I have the LPS on the left next to my CTH and Mytek Liberty DAC.
> (Please excuse my egregious lack of cable management lol)
> Very comparable in size and design, they all go together well. In regards to changes in sound, I heard it immidiately. No need to A/B back and forth. I have a number of test tracks that I listen to when ever I make component changes, always the same songs so I have a base line to compare. The #1 thing that hit my ears was a marked change in energy and speed. My HD600's just came alive. Now I'm very sensitive to changes in soundstage and imaging. Constriction or dampening of that aspect is probably my number one reason for rejecting components in my system. There were no changes on that front, which to me is a great thing. Possibly better definition of instruments in space if you really pressed me but nothing that is overwhelming. I was just pleased that nothing was detracted. I'm very happy over all and at like $120 shipped to my door (really fast too, I was surprised) it was a worthwile experiment. I think I'm going to order another for my Mytek! Now there are a few sellers on Ebay that are using the same pictures and description, I can't speak as to that product. Maybe they are related and are pulling from the same stock, I have no idea. This is the seller I bought from and I can speak to that unit. If you try one out just make sure to specify your wall voltage and output voltage!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-65VA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-Power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-etc/321829629341?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



I just hooked the above LPS .... Sounds very very good ... No issues as of yet ... It is now part of my setup .... Using questyle cma400i as the DAC ..


----------



## SmashBruh

Has anyone here tried the Loxjie P20?? I heard it's actually a more fun amp than the CTH, but I wonder if it compares to the CTH+6c8g+LPS combo?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Does anyone know if a late 1960's Brimar E88CC tube would sound in the MCTH as compared to a current electro-harmonix gold pin 6922?

Just looking for general info before buying 

Thks


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 12, 2019)

JerryLeeds said:


> Does anyone know if a late 1960's Brimar E88CC tube would sound in the MCTH as compared to a current electro-harmonix gold pin 6922?
> 
> Just looking for general info before buying
> 
> Thks



NOS tubes geniunely are better - Brimars tend to be pretty warm if that's what you're looking for. The better version of the 6922 is the E188CC. Tighter specs and more detail.



Guidostrunk said:


> Acopian A28MT300 is what I'm using for a LPS.
> Regarding the 6sn7. I wouldn't use it in the cth. 350ma is the highest you can go. Unless you're willing to give it a go lol.
> 
> Cheers



Yea I read Dr. Cavalli's comment on Massdrop - Tubedepot does sell an adapter that seems to work for the output heater voltage of the Vali but it requires 600ma this amp probably caps out at 400ma before damage. That's a shame because 6SN7 tubes are quieter and cheaper.


----------



## KaiserTK

Went back to using this amp since I’ve been solely using the LP for a while now. And daaaang, it’s real close! I think tonally and soundstage they are pretty much the same. I can only tell a minor difference in imaging and depth from close A/B ing. 

However, I noticed just like the ZX300 vs WM1A, it’s these minute differences that keep me engaged in the music longer and more enjoyably (and making me spend way more than I should be).


----------



## CoFire

KaiserTK said:


> Went back to using this amp since I’ve been solely using the LP for a while now. And daaaang, it’s real close! I think tonally and soundstage they are pretty much the same. I can only tell a minor difference in imaging and depth from close A/B ing.
> 
> However, I noticed just like the ZX300 vs WM1A, it’s these minute differences that keep me engaged in the music longer and more enjoyably (and making me spend way more than I should be).



What headphones are you using for the comparison? Would you recommend the LP given your impression/comparison of the MCTH?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 26, 2019)

KaiserTK said:


> Went back to using this amp since I’ve been solely using the LP for a while now. And daaaang, it’s real close! I think tonally and soundstage they are pretty much the same. I can only tell a minor difference in imaging and depth from close A/B ing.
> 
> However, I noticed just like the ZX300 vs WM1A, it’s these minute differences that keep me engaged in the music longer and more enjoyably (and making me spend way more than I should be).


Cool rig you got there!  Reminds me of mine.   When you move up the ladder, the differences are small, but worth every penny.


----------



## KaiserTK

CoFire said:


> What headphones are you using for the comparison? Would you recommend the LP given your impression/comparison of the MCTH?



Used the HD800S and Aeolus. 
As for recommendation, it really depends on many factors. I have a really favorable opinion of the CTH and simply couldn’t pass up on getting a ‘Papa CTH’, but you might want something else. What are you looking for?


----------



## CoFire

KaiserTK said:


> Used the HD800S and Aeolus.
> As for recommendation, it really depends on many factors. I have a really favorable opinion of the CTH and simply couldn’t pass up on getting a ‘Papa CTH’, but you might want something else. What are you looking for?



I heard the CTH, it is impressive. Been eyeballing the Liquid Platinum. I think I'm more interested in a hybrid amp over OTL as i prefer the versatility and the only high impedance headphones i have are the HD6XX and a DT990-600 which isn't used for music but rather TV duty sure to its large soundstage and V-shaped signature. I need to update my profile but my latest cans are the HEX V2, 400i, THX00, Nighthawks, Audeze EL8 Ti, and perhaps an Aeolus i may demo soon. Mainly interested in synergy with HEX V2 and for tube flavor but maybe not full tube flavor. I still prefer a bit more detail, yet a musical signature over full tube euphoria. Or perhaps, I haven't given OTLs a fair break. Main amps now are the THX AAA 789, Liquid Carbon X, and my DAC/AMP Grace m9XX. A quick snapshot.

So is the papa CTH worth the extra investment over the CTH? The allure of the LP is the extra overhead power to get the most out of cans! Unless i go full OTL which really IMO requires different cans, i can see the LP being an end game Hybrid.


----------



## KaiserTK

I only heard the HEXv2 a few times, so I can’t say much about it. If I remember correctly it has a similar sorta thin sound like the HD800/S so tube hybrid could be a good idea. 

I’ve had a chance to try OTLs like AmpandSound, Woo, and Cayiin, and my take is that they are very good at filling a very large portion of the headstage. However, good SS amps like 789 and Gilmore Lite have better upfront detail and sub-bass extension than the best of the OTLs I’ve tried. 
The MJ2 and LP being hybrids I definitely do feel strike a good balance between the two. Still I remember the 789 having more perceived detail (very crisp) than the LP, but lacks any of that tubey holographicness and decay. 

TL;DR My honest opinion would be to upgrade the DAC before the amp in this case. Admittedly I’ve never heard the 9xx, but I really think +$800 into purchasing like Soekris, RME, Schiit, Chord, Metrum, or Mytek would upgrade/change the sound to a larger degree. Thinking of Dac/Amp synergies is another pain in the a$$ tho.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a steal of a price for an Acopian A28mt300 linear power supply. Offer $40 plus $20 shipping. These supplies retail are $300.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/312558875702


----------



## K1030

Can anyone recommend a replacement tube for this amplifier. I'm looking for a more open and airy sound and I actually wouldn't mind finding I decent warmer tube for my final audio Pandora VI as well. Thanks in advance


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

K1030 said:


> Can anyone recommend a replacement tube for this amplifier. I'm looking for a more open and airy sound and I actually wouldn't mind finding I decent warmer tube for my final audio Pandora VI as well. Thanks in advance



I bought an amperex PQ orange globe which was much warmer and more 'tubey' than the Electro Harmonix. It is definitely not open and airy sounding, but it cured the sibilant nature of the Focal Elex, one of the most delightful pairings I've ever heard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Open and airy would be a Telefunken e88cc or e188cc. Either tube should have a diamond on the bottom. The e188cc is pricier due to tighter specs, and does blow away the e88cc in SQ. 
Warm you can search for a Mullard/Brimar cv2492. Code should read KB/AD (Rochester plant). 
Cheers!


K1030 said:


> Can anyone recommend a replacement tube for this amplifier. I'm looking for a more open and airy sound and I actually wouldn't mind finding I decent warmer tube for my final audio Pandora VI as well. Thanks in advance


----------



## 47anLoken

I just ordered a 6C8G to 6922 adapter for my CTH and next up is tubes. 

Anyone tried any of these 6C8G tubes,  Purotron, Ken-Rad, National Union, Mullard (RCA), RCA VT-163? I was of course looking for Tung Sol but my tube guy only had above listed NOS tubes. 

Drill a bigger hole or use socket savers?


----------



## jrhill

Cut a bigger hole on top so the top of the adapter socket is nearly at the top of the case and the 6c8g valve sits proud above that - a tube guard is recommended as the 6c8g is a tall tube.
I tried the Kenrad version of the 6c8g but prefer the TungSol as it has a much clearer sound - the linear power supply might need some attention here too as it directly effects the overall sound - I've used the 1,000uF Nichicon KZ in // with a Nichicon 470uF BP as the output cap on the S11 linear power supply (28v @360mA)


----------



## Guidostrunk

I used a socket saver from tubemonger myself. With the 6c8g , some folks experienced hum for some reason. Me personally never have. 
As far as the tubes themselves , the Tung-sol was my preferred tube with the National Union and Ken-rad tied for second. 
Definitely look into an external power supply as well and you won't need another amp unless you buy a Hifiman HE6 lol. 
Cheers!


47anLoken said:


> I just ordered a 6C8G to 6922 adapter for my CTH and next up is tubes.
> 
> Anyone tried any of these 6C8G tubes,  Purotron, Ken-Rad, National Union, Mullard (RCA), RCA VT-163? I was of course looking for Tung Sol but my tube guy only had above listed NOS tubes.
> 
> Drill a bigger hole or use socket savers?


----------



## 47anLoken

jrhill said:


> Cut a bigger hole on top so the top of the adapter socket is nearly at the top of the case and the 6c8g valve sits proud above that - a tube guard is recommended as the 6c8g is a tall tube.
> I tried the Kenrad version of the 6c8g but prefer the TungSol as it has a much clearer sound - the linear power supply might need some attention here too as it directly effects the overall sound - I've used the 1,000uF Nichicon KZ in // with a Nichicon 470uF BP as the output cap on the S11 linear power supply (28v @360mA)



Thank you! Do I need a LPS if I'm going to use 6C8G tubes? I'll probably buy one in the near future but wanted to try the new tube first.


----------



## 47anLoken (Jun 14, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> I used a socket saver from tubemonger myself. With the 6c8g , some folks experienced hum for some reason. Me personally never have.
> As far as the tubes themselves , the Tung-sol was my preferred tube with the National Union and Ken-rad tied for second.
> Definitely look into an external power supply as well and you won't need another amp unless you buy a Hifiman HE6 lol.
> Cheers!



Thanks! What about the LPS on eBay? Good choice?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113270854202


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. @atomicbob has tested one of those and they work great. 


47anLoken said:


> Thanks! What about the LPS on eBay? Good choice?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113270854202


----------



## jasonho

47anLoken said:


> Thanks! What about the LPS on eBay? Good choice?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113270854202



Check out my post over at https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...-dropping-monday.857673/page-72#post-14858926


----------



## joeike

Just watched the CTH Zreview on YouTube. He's just reinforcing something we all know of course but good to see an accurate review of the unit on YouTube finally.


----------



## alterndog

Wondering if someone can help. I used my CTH for the first time in several months today. When turning the volume pot I got the *scratchy noise in the left ear* that others seems to have. I have never had this issue before (have had this one for about 7 months replacing my first unit which was defective). A couple of questions:

1. What would cause the onset of the issue after over a 6 months of owning the unit.
2. Is there an easy fix?
3. Is this an issue that can damage the unit further if not fixed? It is annoying, but the sound out of the CTH is still great. 

Thanks!


----------



## CEE TEE

Hey alterndog,
Did anything in your chain change?  Especially the DAC in the chain?  
The CTH shares the ground with the source.  If anything changes there, could change the ground and if you touch the pot that could make a noise.
(If you don't have any source plugged into the CTH, that could definitely cause it.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

My cth intermittently will have the scratchy issue only when turning the volume up or down while listening. It's been that way since the beginning using a modi multibit. It doesn't bother me at all because it only happens like I explained. Never happens as long as I'm not adjusting the volume.


----------



## Marlowe

Guidostrunk said:


> My cth intermittently will have the scratchy issue only when turning the volume up or down while listening. It's been that way since the beginning using a modi multibit. It doesn't bother me at all because it only happens like I explained. Never happens as long as I'm not adjusting the volume.


Same. I generally get a slight scratchy sound in the right channel when changing volume, but never otherwise. I'm currently using the CTH in my TV/Blu-ray setup with a Modi Multibit (fed by the TV's optical out and the Blu-ray's coaxial) and usually a Sennheiser HD700 (and on rare occasions a Focal Elex; this use is reversed for music listening). Even though I probably have a small touch of OCD and can be greatly annoyed by relatively small things, this is so minimal that it never really bothered me much and I never even considered returning it (especially since it seems a new unit would more likely than not have the same issue).


----------



## Wes S (Jun 18, 2019)

Sounds like bad tubes to me, as in maybe slightly microphonic, which is picked up by slight vibrations, from turning volume pot.  Just had a similar issue, with my BHC, and I changed the driver tube, and the scratching sound while turning volume pot, is gone.  If you can live with it, no worries, but I just could not.


----------



## Mark Bajkowski (Jun 19, 2019)

Scratchy sound when adjusting volume existed on quite many units in the past due to faulty potentiometer which normally was replaced under the original Massdrop non-transferable warranty. As I recall, some people were attemptingg to fix this issue by using an industrial contact cleaner spray, but the fact the potentiometer was sealed, made it not too effective. Actually, some of those faulty units were sold with substantial discounts by 3rd party distributors with no warranty. If any new edition of the amp would have again the scratchy potentiometers that would be really bad for Massdrop's quality reputation.


----------



## 47anLoken (Jun 25, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> I used a socket saver from tubemonger myself. With the 6c8g , some folks experienced hum for some reason. Me personally never have.
> As far as the tubes themselves , the Tung-sol was my preferred tube with the National Union and Ken-rad tied for second.
> Definitely look into an external power supply as well and you won't need another amp unless you buy a Hifiman HE6 lol.
> Cheers!



One more question, is one socket saver enough. The one I'm buying is 20mm without pins. I tried to measure and I think it'll be fine. The picture is the actual tubes and the socket saver I'm about to buy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I used one saver. Your adapter will rest right over the hole. 


47anLoken said:


> One more question, is one socket saver enough. The one I'm buying is 20mm without pins. I tried to measure and I think it'll be fine. The picture is the actual tubes and the socket saver I'm about to buy.


----------



## jrhill

I found an adapter for the 6c8g on eBay and it was too short - had to enlarge the hole on top (38mm dia) to fit the metal jacket socket - socket now fits flush with top surface.  Found a 'tube guard' on Alixpress to protect the exposed tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You didn't try a socket saver? 


jrhill said:


> I found an adapter for the 6c8g on eBay and it was too short - had to enlarge the hole on top (38mm dia) to fit the metal jacket socket - socket now fits flush with top surface.  Found a 'tube guard' on Alixpress to protect the exposed tube.


----------



## 47anLoken

jrhill said:


> I found an adapter for the 6c8g on eBay and it was too short - had to enlarge the hole on top (38mm dia) to fit the metal jacket socket - socket now fits flush with top surface.  Found a 'tube guard' on Alixpress to protect the exposed tube.



How did you attach the tube guard? Picture?


----------



## jrhill

I tried a couple of different ones but was unsure about good pin contact and/or 2 units 'in series', I pulled the case apart and carefully cut the larger hole - the guard comes apart so just drilled the 3 holes and bolted it on - I only got the larger one for the 6c8g as the smaller 9 pin tubes fits inside.


----------



## fishda30

Anyone tried these with an he560?how's the pairing? What changes happen if you add a linear power supply?


----------



## alterndog (Jun 30, 2019)

CEE TEE said:


> Hey alterndog,
> Did anything in your chain change?  Especially the DAC in the chain?
> The CTH shares the ground with the source.  If anything changes there, could change the ground and if you touch the pot that could make a noise.
> (If you don't have any source plugged into the CTH, that could definitely cause it.)



Hello CEE TEE,

Sorry for the late reply. For some reason I wasn't notified that you had replied until I went on vacation and could not test the equipment. I have not changed my chain at all. It is my computer>DFB>CTH.

I had read moving the pot around (with amp off) may help as it might dislodge dust. After doing that the static isn't as bad as it was last time. I now only hear the static when I move the volume pot with no music playing. When I am playing music I cannot hear the static. Any help would appreciated. Personally I can deal with the static if it's only audible when no music is playing. I just want to be sure that it isn't a symptom of a bigger issue or will cause more damage to the amp.


----------



## CEE TEE

alterndog said:


> Hello CEE TEE,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply. For some reason I wasn't notified that you had replied until I went on vacation and could not test the equipment. I have not changed my chain at all. It is my computer>DFB>CTH.
> 
> I had read moving the pot around (with amp off) may help as it might dislodge dust. After doing that the static isn't as bad as it was last time. I now only hear the static when I move the volume pot with no music playing. When I am playing music I cannot hear the static. Any help would appreciated. Personally I can deal with the static if it's only audible when no music is playing. I just want to be sure that it isn't a symptom of a bigger issue or will cause more damage to the amp.



Oh!  No worries at all...just super-happy things seem to be working again!  

Not exactly related, but these are things we test: I just moved an amp off my desk into another room today to see if some interference was causing the noise.  Sure enough, either my RCA cables aren’t shielded enough or the amp is susceptible...so it is now my bedside amp and I am enjoying it again right now.


----------



## 47anLoken (Jul 2, 2019)

Got my 6c8G adapter today and immediately plugged in my new NOS Ken Rad tube. Unfortunately there's a lot of static noise in my right channel which I can't get rid of. It's always there even with no volume turned up. Right now this project feels like $50 in the ocean. With my e88cc tubes the amp is dead quiet. To make it even worse I also dropped my best sounding Philips e88cc in the floor and it stopped working. Bad day in head-fi.

[Update]
Solved it! The noise was coming from my Ifi Ipurifier connected to my dac. Unplugged it and voila, again dead quiet! Never heard the noise with my e88cc tubes but with this new 6c8G it was very much there. Feels much better now!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If your kenrad is nos. Give it maybe 5 to 6 hours of burn in and see if the noise subsides. My Tungsol was a little noisy for the first few hours and went completely silent. Over the years I've had many nos tubes show some noise initially then silent after running a while. 
I feel your pain dropping tubes. Few years ago I just opened a pair of western electric 396a, and dropped one and it shattered. $60 down the drain. 
Don't throw the towel in on the 6c8g yet. Let me know if the noise goes away. 


47anLoken said:


> Got my 6c8G adapter today and immediately plugged in my new NOS Ken Rad tube. Unfortunately there's a lot of static noise in my right channel which I can't get rid of. It's always there even with no volume turned up. Right now this project feels like $50 in the ocean. With my e88cc tubes the amp is dead quiet. To make it even worse I also dropped my best sounding Philips e88cc in the floor and it stopped working. Bad day in head-fi.


----------



## 47anLoken

Guidostrunk said:


> If your kenrad is nos. Give it maybe 5 to 6 hours of burn in and see if the noise subsides. My Tungsol was a little noisy for the first few hours and went completely silent. Over the years I've had many nos tubes show some noise initially then silent after running a while.
> I feel your pain dropping tubes. Few years ago I just opened a pair of western electric 396a, and dropped one and it shattered. $60 down the drain.
> Don't throw the towel in on the 6c8g yet. Let me know if the noise goes away.



I updated my post! It's all working now! Faulty power supply for my Ipurifier, I connected it a few weeks ago and apparently I connected the power supply that isn't really working, I've had similar problems before and never got rid of the faulty one. Switched to the other one and now it's all good!


----------



## Kevin Tam

Hey guys,

I just acquired a 2nd hand massdrop CTH amp an am experiencing an issue where when playing music, I will suddenly hear a loud pop from the left channel.  The light turns red and the music gets muted. Music resumes after a while, but this happens every 2-3mins.  The problem occurs with and without headphones plugged in, with and without input plugged in, with different tubes and with different volume positions.  Has anybody experienced this before?  What could the problem be?  

Really appreciate your help!

Thanks,
Kev


----------



## demevalos

greenkiwi said:


> Mine just arrived... was listening to it for most of the afternoon.  Sounds good so far, however, I had it effectively power cycle itself twice.  Heard two loud pops, power light went red, then music came back.  Happened twice.  Don't know what would have caused that, created a ticket with MD.



I have this issue as well. I just ordered a new Gold Lion tube to see if maybe that fixes the issue, but has anyone else here found a fix to the pop-shut off problem?


----------



## ls13coco

That little volume ident is perfect for filling with white paint!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Curious if anyone still owns this amp besides me. Lol. 
This is the longest tenured amp I've ever owned. 1 year , and 4 months. I truly believe that so many threw the towel in way too early on this amp. 
I'll be heading to Florida to visit family next week. I'll be meeting a friend who has a Lyr3 , with the multibit module. I'm taking my cans and laptop to have a listen. Will be interesting to see if I'm missing anything when I get back home to my rig.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Guidostrunk said:


> Curious if anyone still owns this amp besides me. Lol.
> This is the longest tenured amp I've ever owned. 1 year , and 4 months. I truly believe that so many threw the towel in way too early on this amp.
> I'll be heading to Florida to visit family next week. I'll be meeting a friend who has a Lyr3 , with the multibit module. I'm taking my cans and laptop to have a listen. Will be interesting to see if I'm missing anything when I get back home to my rig.



I'm waiting on the funds to get the airist dac. After owning the modi multibit I can tell you it's not worth the price Schiit asks for it. I'm sure the lyr 3 will be great, but if you can bring a dac you own you will get a much better idea of what the lyr3 sounds like.


----------



## ls13coco

Guidostrunk said:


> Curious if anyone still owns this amp besides me. Lol.
> This is the longest tenured amp I've ever owned. 1 year , and 4 months. I truly believe that so many threw the towel in way too early on this amp.
> I'll be heading to Florida to visit family next week. I'll be meeting a friend who has a Lyr3 , with the multibit module. I'm taking my cans and laptop to have a listen. Will be interesting to see if I'm missing anything when I get back home to my rig.



The MCTH is actually the last amp I've added to my collection. I instantly fell in love with its sound, even more so after adding the LPS. I may be a fan of the Cavalli sound, as I was hoping I would be as I originally was going after the LP.
Added in a Airist R2R dac and the MCTH isn't going anywhere any time soon.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Curious if anyone still owns this amp besides me. Lol.
> This is the longest tenured amp I've ever owned. 1 year , and 4 months. I truly believe that so many threw the towel in way too early on this amp.
> I'll be heading to Florida to visit family next week. I'll be meeting a friend who has a Lyr3 , with the multibit module. I'm taking my cans and laptop to have a listen. Will be interesting to see if I'm missing anything when I get back home to my rig.


I still got it too buddy   I was on 1st drop, so own it for quite a while!!
In fact, I was A/B-ing couple headphones over the last 2 days, and for reasons I won't go into right now - I have decided to use the Airist R2R and CTH to feed said headphones


----------



## joeike

Yes my CTH is almost 2 year's old without a problem to report. I added the modi multi-bit Dac also. Original ps wart & tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I will do that. Mimby is easily transportable. My last move will be an airist dac as well. 


BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm waiting on the funds to get the airist dac. After owning the modi multibit I can tell you it's not worth the price Schiit asks for it. I'm sure the lyr 3 will be great, but if you can bring a dac you own you will get a much better idea of what the lyr3 sounds like.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Guidostrunk said:


> I will do that. Mimby is easily transportable. My last move will be an airist dac as well.


Ah you have the mimby as well? Don't worry about it then. It's the same R2R dac in the Lyr 3 but yours will sound worse because it won't be warmed up!


----------



## joeike

Happiness is a warm mimby!


----------



## PaganDL

Kevin Tam said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just acquired a 2nd hand massdrop CTH amp an am experiencing an issue where when playing music, I will suddenly hear a loud pop from the left channel.  The light turns red and the music gets muted. Music resumes after a while, but this happens every 2-3mins.  The problem occurs with and without headphones plugged in, with and without input plugged in, with different tubes and with different volume positions.  Has anybody experienced this before?  What could the problem be?
> 
> ...






demevalos said:


> I have this issue as well. I just ordered a new Gold Lion tube to see if maybe that fixes the issue, but has anyone else here found a fix to the pop-shut off problem?




Just wondering if you both are still having issues with the CTH, hard to say exactly what is wrong exactly without seeing the board when the pop occurs but more than likely tube isn't quite fully seated in its socket.
Important thing to note whenever using a tube amp is the following :

1. Tube must to be fully seated firmly in its socket with no play in said socket,

2. Tube should be a perfect 90 degrees in said socket.
    Amp cover should be perfectly level, only top tube half should be exposed.

3. Does the tube give a steady orange glow or is it flickering &/or blue in colour?
    If flickering &/or blue in colour, then tube is definitely faulty, blue means tube has a minute crack somewhere with air leaking in, this is technically bad.

4. Are any pins bent or not the same length, if so, can said pins be straighten, if so, dedicated tube straighteners exist, if pins not the same length, this is creating all manner of electrical shorts which damage both tube and amp.

Hope this makes sense.

Hope you both have a great day !


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> My last move will be an airist dac as well.


You'll absolutely love it - sounds great, and I love the stack 
Currently, my Drop Stack is 3-high: LCX, RDAC, CTH.  Both amps are fed by RDAC. One of the best bang-for-the-buck in the market.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks. So once again , I played guinea pig with this amp. Now.........! I have to stress this first before I explain. I'M USING AN ACOPIAN A28MT300 EXTERNAL LINEAR POWER SUPPLY!  It's 28v/3amp. I do not recommend doing this with your walwart! 
So...... I bought a 6sn7 to 6922 adapter and a Tung-sol 6sn7gtb. This tube runs at 600ma. It's double the 6922. 

I've been burning the 6sn7 tube in since this morning. Just got home from work and had a quick listen. All I can say is WOW!!!!! 
Just when I thought it couldn't get any better. Sheesh! 
My reason for doing it is:
1) I saw in a few comments on YouTube that someone was using 6cg7. Which is basically identical to 6sn7, but with the same pin out as the 6922. 
2) I'm going to be listening to a Lyr3 next week. Lol.

I'll report back in a few hours after I get settled in and have a good listen to some familiar tracks. I have no issues whatsoever with the 6sn7 running in the amp. It's been in there since around 6am est. 
I know 100% that I will never part with this amp now!


----------



## ls13coco

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok folks. So once again , I played guinea pig with this amp. Now.........! I have to stress this first before I explain. I'M USING AN ACOPIAN A28MT300 EXTERNAL LINEAR POWER SUPPLY!  It's 28v/3amp. I do not recommend doing this with your walwart!
> So...... I bought a 6sn7 to 6922 adapter and a Tung-sol 6sn7gtb. This tube runs at 600ma. It's double the 6922.
> 
> I've been burning the 6sn7 tube in since this morning. Just got home from work and had a quick listen. All I can say is WOW!!!!!
> ...



Very cool, I look forward to hearing further impressions! Which 6sn7 tube are you using?


----------



## Guidostrunk

A 1953 Tung-sol , tall bottle D getter. 





ls13coco said:


> Very cool, I look forward to hearing further impressions! Which 6sn7 tube are you using?


----------



## jasonho

PaganDL said:


> Just wondering if you both are still having issues with the CTH, hard to say exactly what is wrong exactly without seeing the board when the pop occurs but more than likely tube isn't quite fully seated in its socket.
> Important thing to note whenever using a tube amp is the following :
> 
> 1. Tube must to be fully seated firmly in its socket with no play in said socket,
> ...



I encountered similar issue and it comes down to the LPS unit I was using connecting to CTH.  Once removed, the issue went away.  So in short, do check your power cable, lines etc..


----------



## jrhill

I found a bit of a problem with the 6c8g tube sitting hard on top of the case without full pin insertion in the adapter socket (6922 ->6c8g socket) so I disassembled the unit and enlarged the hole on top to 38mm (1.5") then added a 'tube-guard' (I think it's for the kt88 tubes) and this enlarged hole allows full insertion - also added some 'liquid carbon' contact 'goo' from Mad Scientist (New Zealand) that seemed to add some extra clarity to the sound.
I tried a couple of linear power supplies and settled on the AMB Sigma 11 version (china version = S11)
The TungSol 6c8g is noticeably clearer in the mids than the KenRad 6c8g and does sound more relaxed that the Siemens PCC88 altho a rather good sound indeed.
I prefer this amp with it's upgrades to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon for it's musical sound (comes to about the same cost of the LC with the upgrades)

I use the Ayre Acoustic QB-9 dac for the source and ViaBlue cables so it's a rather good signal quality - my main headphones are the HE-500's but similar results on both the Senn 650s and curiously, the k-701 and 702s (all modded, of course!)

My main reference is the Ayre Codex headlamp/preamp so there's a big difference in the sound, yet the modded CTH doesn't disgrace itself in comparison, just different.

It'll be interesting to see if the extra heater current demand of the 6SN7 causes problems with the amp but the conservative designs of the Cavalli gear could have the Massdrop version to handle this quite well. 

I'm also into amp/speaker/room acoustics but it gets exhausting to have so much response quoting the measured figures and 'gospel belief in that significance that it's such a relief to pop in here to get actual listening responses. [Mind you, I don't decry the use of the measured figures at all, just this weird belief that it somehow connects to what you actually hear]

Regards to all here ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm 3 hours in with the 6sn7. A whole new level of W.T.F? LOL! The transparency is ridiculous! The imaging is exactly how I remember the Woo Wa6, BH-Crack  sounding. Soundstage is through the roof! It absolutely beats the 6c8g , in every aspect ; height, width, and most importantly, the depth! Extremely holographic!


----------



## Kevin Tam

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm 3 hours in with the 6sn7. A whole new level of W.T.F? LOL! The transparency is ridiculous! The imaging is exactly how I remember the Woo Wa6, BH-Crack  sounding. Soundstage is through the roof! It absolutely beats the 6c8g , in every aspect ; height, width, and most importantly, the depth! Extremely holographic!



As exciting as this sounds, I am worried that you might be overloading the amp, especially since the tube heater does not support the high 0.6A current draw from the 6SN7 tube.  Your adapter serves as a pinout converter.  Not a current limiter.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Sep 17, 2019)

I hope your amp and your audio gear don't catch fire Guido! Has anyone tried this Telefunken Black Diamond E88CC tube https://www.tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-black-diamond-e88cc-6922 ?

I was getting grumpy about my SU-8 tonight so I took out my Electro Harmonix and rolled a Mullard I bought used on tctubes and the sound is definitely more tube like and I can't hear what i was complaining about before. It's not the clearest tube, it's slightly fuzzy. But, it is euphoric and warm without getting overbearingly so like my Amperex orange globe. However the higher frequencies aren't as forward which isn't great for everything

Edit: To answer my own question and anyone that happens upon this thread, I haven't found any fond reviews of the E88CC Telefunken


----------



## Guidostrunk

If I was using the walwart, I'd be concerned. I'm well aware of what an adapter does. Lol


Kevin Tam said:


> As exciting as this sounds, I am worried that you might be overloading the amp, especially since the tube heater does not support the high 0.6A current draw from the 6SN7 tube.  Your adapter serves as a pinout converter.  Not a current limiter.


----------



## Phantaminum

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm 3 hours in with the 6sn7. A whole new level of W.T.F? LOL! The transparency is ridiculous! The imaging is exactly how I remember the Woo Wa6, BH-Crack  sounding. Soundstage is through the roof! It absolutely beats the 6c8g , in every aspect ; height, width, and most importantly, the depth! Extremely holographic!



The 6SN7 is a beautiful sounding tube but you’re going to fry your amp. It pulls double the amount of amps that a 6922/E88CC/6c8g pulls. A Lyr 3 or other tube amps provides the right amperage for the 6SN7s. You may not see the immediate consequences now but slowly you’ll burn it out.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Sep 17, 2019)

The 6cg7 is a 600ma tube as well, and there's a person that's been using it since May and so far , no issues with the amp. He's using a beefier external LPS as well. So I'm assuming it's the LPS that's making it happen. Only time will tell. I'll report back in a week with an update on my progress. Maybe @CEE TEE can chime in and let me know what to check internally with a multimeter to see if it's biasing properly.
Edit: for the record. My LPS has 3amps to spare. Not 1.25 like the walwart.


----------



## jrhill

This experiment with the 6sn7s is rather interesting and if the amp is happy with the extra heater current, it opens up the range/quality of this project yet again - eagerly waiting the soak test results, Guido.  If the parts get too hot, could the use of mini clip-on/glue heatsinks assist?


----------



## Guidostrunk

So far there's no difference in temperature of the amp by feel. Everything is running perfect. The tube has been burning in for 36 hours straight. 




jrhill said:


> This experiment with the 6sn7s is rather interesting and if the amp is happy with the extra heater current, it opens up the range/quality of this project yet again - eagerly waiting the soak test results, Guido.  If the parts get too hot, could the use of mini clip-on/glue heatsinks assist?


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is the exact power supply I'm using. He'll accept  $40 for one and its $20 shipping. These things retail for almost $400. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/312558875702
Extremely easy to hook up. If anyone buys one, I have spare barrel connectors that plug into the amp. Shoot me a pm with your address and I'll send ya one. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's been a week, and I'm totally blown away with what I'm hearing with the 6sn7 in this amp! Never imagined it get any better than where I was at using the ecc801s with an adapter. 
No issues whatsoever. 
I'm leaving for Florida this morning and like I mentioned in my previous post. I'll get to spend a day at a friends listening to a Lyr3 , with the multibit module. Really curious to see how the mcth stacks up against it. Taking my cans and laptop with me. I'll post some thoughts during my session with the Lyr.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> It's been a week, and I'm totally blown away with what I'm hearing with the 6sn7 in this amp! Never imagined it get any better than where I was at using the ecc801s with an adapter.
> No issues whatsoever.









Could not resist...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zachik said:


> Could not resist...


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Sep 23, 2019)

My LPS shows how many amps are being drawn from my CTH. I'm pretty sure it shows slight differences between my tubes as it usually shows 0.38 amps with my electro harmonix and.0.40 with my Mullard.

It should easily tell us whether the 6sn7 gets all the power it wants or if the CTH just limits it. I'm not sure if it's that difficult to manually measure this, but I'm just throwing this suggestion out there. I don't have any tube adapters though and I'm leaving my apartment till Oct 19th


----------



## mark5hs

Any idea how a CTH + SDAC would compare to an LH Geek Pulse? The CTH combo is $220 on Massdrop... I have a balanced cable already for my HE-560 so this is definitely tempting.


----------



## buke9

mark5hs said:


> Any idea how a CTH + SDAC would compare to an LH Geek Pulse? The CTH combo is $220 on Massdrop... I have a balanced cable already for my HE-560 so this is definitely tempting.


Just so you know the CTH is not actually a balanced amp it just has a balanced connection on it as that is what Alex (Cavalli) prefers for a headphone connection. It is still a very good amp though with plenty of power for most headphones and plenty for the 560’s as it does the 500’s justice as well.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

Hey guys I just got myself a CTH I won it in an eBay auction for $91. So the amperex 6922 tubes are good right. I found a pair I'm good condition for $23  and I wanna make sure that is a good price and worth the money.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

NiTROAUDiO said:


> Hey guys I just got myself a CTH I won it in an eBay auction for $91. So the amperex 6922 tubes are good right. I found a pair I'm good condition for $23  and I wanna make sure that is a good price and worth the money.



Can you provide a link? Those sound like fakes to me. Most Amperex 6922 go for at least $49 and above. I got one for $49 that is noisy but decent.. Couldn't hurt to buy anyway and see if they are any good. I bought a cheap $10 used RCA tube that is really great and doesn't bring out any specific frequency either.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tube-6922/323953886204#vi__app-cvip-panel

There's the link. Their vintage 6922 amperex tubes. I sent him a offer of $20 and he accepted.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Oct 25, 2019)

NiTROAUDiO said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tube-6922/323953886204#vi__app-cvip-panel
> 
> There's the link. Their vintage 6922 amperex tubes. I sent him a offer of $20 and he accepted.




Yea they aren't fake but they are not the Amperex tubes people are talking about online. Those are Sylvania tubes which is listed in the description.

It seems to me Amperex had a factory where I guess they manufactured tubes other than their own. I'm just speculating, however that label appears on other non-Amperex tubes as well

If you want to find at the Amperex tubes you're most likely looking for, search Amperex bugle boy, Amperex PQ, or Amperex orange globe. There is a great site that list almost all the different kinds of 6922, ECC88 tubes. I'll try to post it here


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Hate to double post, but I wanted to give a shout-out to a very recent addition to my CTH, the Topping D70. The dynamic range on this DAC is incomparable to the Smsl Su-8, Sdac and my old Mimby. I have to turn up no CTH twice as much after listening to hip-hop music  w/ hd600s because the the softest moments in classical recordings are actually inaudible. I have it running on an EH tube that I'm burning in now so I'm sure it will sound great for everyone  I highly recommended buying a used Topping D70 or getting it when it appears on Massdrop!


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-...157780?hash=item5b62798fd4:g:cZAAAOSw2bRdrxN~


Are those the ones your speaking of?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wanted to add to your post. If you're interested in amperex e88cc/6922. You want to look for the Philips Heerlen codes. The older the better. Here's a pic of the etched acid code in the glass. This tube was produced in the 3rd week of November 1967. Tubes from the 50's have only the year and month after the delta triangle.



 


BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Yea they aren't fake but they are not the Amperex tubes people are talking about online. Those are Sylvania tubes which is listed in the description.
> 
> It seems to me Amperex had a factory where I guess they manufactured tubes other than their own. I'm just speculating, however that label appears on other non-Amperex tubes as well
> 
> If you want to find at the Amperex tubes you're most likely looking for, search Amperex bugle boy, Amperex PQ, or Amperex orange globe. There is a great site that list almost all the different kinds of 6922, ECC88 tubes. I'll try to post it here


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Oct 28, 2019)

NiTROAUDiO said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-...157780?hash=item5b62798fd4:g:cZAAAOSw2bRdrxN~
> 
> 
> Are those the ones your speaking of?



http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

Here is the compendium of many of the NOS 6922/6dj8/7308/E88CC etc tubes. A search for 'Amperex Orange' shows Brent has many kinds of Amperex Orange World/Globe, but none of them are made in Germany, so I have to question to legitimacy of this one, however you should try to find proof that these are legit elsewhere online before coming to that conclusion


----------



## 47anLoken

Tube experts out there, I won this auction earlier this week (about $25) and it seems that this is a really sought after tube. Early  Siemens e88cc with 45 degree D-getter NOS. Tested with almost perfect results, see auction.

Will try this instead of my Ken rad 6c8G which I've been using for a couple of months. I really like the sound of it but looking forward to try the Siemens. Anyone else who's tried the CTH with a similar tube? What to expect? 

https://www.tradera.com/item/369996707


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Siemens is a great tube for the 6922 variants. The 6c8g , for me, out preforms any 6922/e88cc. I made the move to 12at7, and am now using 6sn7(with an external lps). It's all subjective though. You may prefer it. Will be curious to hear your thoughts.


----------



## 47anLoken

I also use external LPS which so far was the best upgrade sound wise, especially in the mid/sub base regions. I like the 6c8G paired with my Sennheiser HD6XX, but not so much with other headphones that are easier to drive, to much background noise. It also picks up more interference from phones etc. My 6922 tubes are much quieter and not as prone to interference.

I'll post impressions when I tried out the Siemens for a while.


----------



## Zachik

47anLoken said:


> It also picks up more interference from phones etc. My 6922 tubes are much quieter and not as prone to interference.


I had a VERY similar experience!
Not using 6C8G anymore for that reason alone.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I haven't tried the Siemens tube, but please let us know what you think. The consensus on them online seems to be they are fairly neutral and not too warm.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

Hey guys I just got my CTH and the only unit I have that can fit the pos screw on 1/4 inch adapter is my m1060s and I am using a Topping MX3 with the included red and white plugged into the CTH and the 3.5mm into the topping. Then I have to Bluetooth from my phone to the topping. But I must turn the volume also up on the CTH and it's still not loud enough. I can turn the mx3 up from the 0.0 db spot to make it louder but I thought you weren't supposed to do That? I'm new to this and if someone can please help me


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

NiTROAUDiO said:


> Hey guys I just got my CTH and the only unit I have that can fit the pos screw on 1/4 inch adapter is my m1060s and I am using a Topping MX3 with the included red and white plugged into the CTH and the 3.5mm into the topping. Then I have to Bluetooth from my phone to the topping. But I must turn the volume also up on the CTH and it's still not loud enough. I can turn the mx3 up from the 0.0 db spot to make it louder but I thought you weren't supposed to do That? I'm new to this and if someone can please help me


Is your source at max volume as well? I.e. your Phone or Pc or whatever, then check your application to make sure that volume is max as well (spotify, itunes). That's the only thing I can think of. I'm looking at the back of the Mx3 in pictures and it's strange that it doesn't have rca out. try not using bluetooth and using usb instead and see if that makes a difference as well


----------



## buke9

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Is your source at max volume as well? I.e. your Phone or Pc or whatever, then check your application to make sure that volume is max as well (spotify, itunes). That's the only thing I can think of. I'm looking at the back of the Mx3 in pictures and it's strange that it doesn't have rca out. try not using bluetooth and using usb instead and see if that makes a difference as well


Not for sure but I believe they are running the CTH from the headphone out with a 3.5mm to rca cable which is not real ideal.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

The mx3 didn't have a rca out that's why. Can you guys recommend some dacs that will work that I can also use my phone to play music through since my pc isn't functional until a couple weeks. Could I get like a ES 100, a fiio mk2 or q5. I can spend like $150


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

buke9 said:


> Not for sure but I believe they are running the CTH from the headphone out with a 3.5mm to rca cable which is not real ideal.


Looking at pictures it appears the mx3 doesn't have rca out but instead has rca inputs. I might be wrong but the ports say 'AUX IN'. Next to them


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Looking at pictures it appears the mx3 doesn't have rca out but instead has rca inputs. I might be wrong but the ports say 'AUX IN'. Next to them



Yeah there is an aux in. That's it  no rca outputs.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

NiTROAUDiO said:


> The mx3 didn't have a rca out that's why. Can you guys recommend some dacs that will work that I can also use my phone to play music through since my pc isn't functional until a couple weeks. Could I get like a ES 100, a fiio mk2 or q5. I can spend like $150



I can vouch for the es100, I have been using it a lot with my iem with good results. You might get more mileage out of a fiio though but they aren't as portable, but it's probably best you get away from 3.5mm to rca cables though


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I can vouch for the es100, I have been using it a lot with my iem with good results. You might get more mileage out of a fiio though but they aren't as portable, but it's probably best you get away from 3.5mm to rca cables though



What dac should I get for my CTH?
Like how does this work... I connect my dac to my cTH Using rca cables. Then do I connect my source like my phone to my dac then my headphones to the amp. What do y'all re command I order to get the best quality. I'm lost and want to start using this amp


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 4, 2019)

NiTROAUDiO said:


> What dac should I get for my CTH?
> Like how does this work... I connect my dac to my cTH Using rca cables. Then do I connect my source like my phone to my dac then my headphones to the amp. What do y'all re command I order to get the best quality. I'm lost and want to start using this amp



You're exactly right. Get a USB A to USB c or micro USB converter for your phone if you want to use that as a source. I'm using the topping d70 dac, you can just get an sdac if you only want a dac for the CTH. I liked the SMSL su-8 but it is more digital sounding than the sdac, it's more detailed as well however .

Edit: topping d10 should work well too


----------



## buke9

NiTROAUDiO said:


> The mx3 didn't have a rca out that's why. Can you guys recommend some dacs that will work that I can also use my phone to play music through since my pc isn't functional until a couple weeks. Could I get like a ES 100, a fiio mk2 or q5. I can spend like $150


Well since this a going to be a desktop dac I would go with a desktop dac. A Modi 3 would be my choice as it is a competent dac and good support and has separate power and usb inputs so you can use any phone as a source that can go OTG which most will and even iPhones.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

buke9 said:


> Well since this a going to be a desktop dac I would go with a desktop dac. A Modi 3 would be my choice as it is a competent dac and good support and has separate power and usb inputs so you can use any phone as a source that can go OTG which most will and even iPhones.



I keep forgetting the modi upgraded to 3. I vote for the modi 3 as well


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

What  about topping d50 or the smsl m100 that seems to be really good for $80


----------



## joeike

I use the modi 3 multi-bit Dac with Chromecast audio optical out & the micca oragin Dac with my pixel phone as a  USB sorce using a otg cable.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

NiTROAUDiO said:


> What  about topping d50 or the smsl m100 that seems to be really good for $80


D50 has a lot of popularity for its measurements , but I would take the Schiit warranty and it's good resale value over D50. Not sure about the m100.

I know it isn't in your budget, but I would steer away from getting the modi multibit. For the price there are better DAC's


----------



## buke9

NiTROAUDiO said:


> What  about topping d50 or the smsl m100 that seems to be really good for $80


Probably not bad either just have no experience with it.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

I found a d50 for $150 or a smsl su 8 balanced for $155.


----------



## buke9

NiTROAUDiO said:


> I found a d50 for $150 or a smsl su 8 balanced for $155.


Whatever you wish then.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

NiTROAUDiO said:


> I found a d50 for $150 or a smsl su 8 balanced for $155.



I would only buy the SU-8 if you see yourself getting a balanced amp in the future, and even then, if you're going to get one you'll probably end up wanting a better dac eventually. No reason to spend more than $100 honestly. Whatever you like though!


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I would only buy the SU-8 if you see yourself getting a balanced amp in the future, and even then, if you're going to get one you'll probably end up wanting a better dac eventually. No reason to spend more than $100 honestly. Whatever you like though!



That's why I liked the smsl m100 for $80.  32 bit 768K. DsD 512 bits,  dual dac function. That's pretty good specs for $80


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

I'm just confused on how crap is supposed to hookup lol. Like. Could I use a es100 into my cTH. Or like a rca from my cTH into a fiio k3 line out then use a aux cord from my phone into the headphone in port of the fiio k3 then plug in my headphones into the CTH. How is it normally hooked up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What phone do you have?
What dac do you have?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 5, 2019)

"I connect my dac to my cTH Using rca cables. Then do I connect my source like my phone to my dac then my headphones to the amp."

Just like I told you, you were right the first time.

Buy this
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...-7bEyuXhAAaG2Fi1k1MMDVaMbWJ3sVloaAo-IEALw_wcB

And this for your phone

https://images.app.goo.gl/XpRiy2iVX4S8mWJ4A

Then just get a desktop dac.


----------



## NiTROAUDiO

So I found a Fiio q5 for $160 should I buy it ? Could I use that


----------



## NiTROAUDiO




----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Don't think I've been anymore surprised, was assuming I would see a fiio listing image in my email but I saw that instead.

No experience with fiio gear personally, you could check some reviews. I'm not sure what purpose there is in getting a portable music player or amp (I dunno what the q5) when you can just get a dac for less though.


----------



## 47anLoken

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I haven't tried the Siemens tube, but please let us know what you think. The consensus on them online seems to be they are fairly neutral and not too warm.



The tube got here a fews days ago and I've been running it for maybe 10 hours. Maybe it'll change some after more burn in but it's definitely a keeper. Posted pictures and description on a few tube forums and experts confirmed that this is one of the rarest and most sought after versions of the CCa Siemens tubes. Lucky me.

It is indeed very neutral. It's also very detailed, especially the mids and highs are excellent. The bass is very good as well but not the first thing I took notice of. The soundstage also feels wider both horizontal and vertical than my other tubes. I did a quick comparison to my 6c8G Ken Rad which is a bit warmer sounding but not a all as crisp and detailed as the Siemens. It has much more of a veiled sound which I didn't notice before I tried the Siemens tube.

I guess my search for alternative tubes doesn't end here but it'll be very hard to beat this Siemens tube.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Nov 9, 2019)

Glad to hear the tube sounds great. I'm doing some listening with my newly acquired HE-500 and I understand what CEE TEE means when he says the CTH sounds the best with the EH.. Well until I switch back to my HD600. It does sound like I'm hearing the amplifier in it's purest state though. Something about a high impedance dynamic driver becomes more visceral with different tubes. The hd600's presentation isn't really enhanced as much as the HE-500 with the EH tube either. HD600 brings your attention to mids that are forward in staging, HE-500 just conveys information with some indifference but more technical proficiency.


----------



## SmashBruh

Thought I'd check in on this thread and @Guidostrunk to see how the 6sn7 tubes are performing in his MCTH when combined withe the LPS and adaptor. I've been thinking about trying this combo myself and just wanted to see how it's holding up/see if you had any tube recs before I took the plunge!


----------



## Guidostrunk

No issues whatsoever. The Tung-sol 6cg7 is a fantastic tube as well. Same specs as 6sn7 but no need for an adapter. It looks like a tall bottle 6922.


----------



## SmashBruh

Has anyone by any chance tried a 6SL7 or 6SU7GTY?? I've heard great things about the latter and, I may be wrong, but it seems to me like the 6SU7GTY operates within the recommended specs of the CTH.


----------



## SmashBruh (Nov 18, 2019)

Well, I gave the 6sn7 mod a shot with an RCA 6sn7GT and garage 1217 adaptor and got no sound coming out of my output... It's fine when I switch back to my 6c8g, but yeah... I do have my LPS set to limit the current at 1.25 amps though. Do you think increasing that value would fix the issue? Any idea what I should set it to?

Interestingly enough the LPS reports that the CTH draws more amperage when I have the 6c8G plugged in vs the 6sn7GT... I wonder why...


----------



## Guidostrunk

My acopian is 28v/5amp. (A28mt500) which is the new one I acquired since dropping my A28mt300 during transport and cracking an internal board. 6sn7 worked flawlessly on that supply as well.


----------



## dpump (Nov 18, 2019)

The Garage1217 adaptor is made to work with Garage1217 amps. May not work with all amps due to the way the heater connections are wired. At least that's my understanding.


----------



## SmashBruh

Guidostrunk said:


> My acopian is 28v/5amp. (A28mt500) which is the new one I acquired since dropping my A28mt300 during transport and cracking an internal board. 6sn7 worked flawlessly on that supply as well.


I'll try changing my amp's current limiter to 28v/3a and if that fails 28v/5a and see if that works!



dpump said:


> The Garage1217 adaptor is made to work with Garage1217 amps. May not work with all amps due to the way the heater connections are wired. At least that's my understading.


Oh, really? There was no mention of that on the ebay page; but I'll shoot him a message just to be sure! Thanks for letting me know!


----------



## SmashBruh

So @dpump was right and it was indeed the adaptor that was amiss. Garage1217 was amazing though and replaced my adaptor for an appropriate one almost immediately. I could not be more impressed with his customer service!

Listening to an RCA VT-231 grey bottle now, and it makes the amp sound absolutely incredible with my atticus! Resolution, soundstage and extension have all increased by quite a margin. To my ears it also sounds waaay more euphonic than the Tung-Sol 6C8G without sacrificing a lick of detail. Frankly I could not be happier! It's a whole new amp! Btw, I would also like to report that it is completely unnecessary to provide the CTH with more than 1.25a. I decided to try it with my LPS set to the default limiting number and with the RCA the max amp draw has not been greater than .51a (I tried a Ken-rad and Sylvania VT-231s as well and both of them seemed to stick to around the same amperage as well.)

Thanks again for all your help guys! And THANK YOU @Guidostrunk for being the guinea pig that led us to this fantastic mod! I'm so glad I get to enjoy this for the next week before my new Mogwai arrives! (Hoping the Mogwai doesn't outclass it to the point where I feel like selling it, but if it does se la vie I guess.  )


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

SmashBruh said:


> So @dpump was right and it was indeed the adaptor that was amiss. Garage1217 was amazing though and replaced my adaptor for an appropriate one almost immediately. I could not be more impressed with his customer service!
> 
> Listening to an RCA VT-231 grey bottle now, and it makes the amp sound absolutely incredible with my atticus! Resolution, soundstage and extension have all increased by quite a margin. To my ears it also sounds waaay more euphonic than the Tung-Sol 6C8G without sacrificing a lick of detail. Frankly I could not be happier! It's a whole new amp! Btw, I would also like to report that it is completely unnecessary to provide the CTH with more than 1.25a. I decided to try it with my LPS set to the default limiting number and with the RCA the max amp draw has not been greater than .51a (I tried a Ken-rad and Sylvania VT-231s as well and both of them seemed to stick to around the same amperage as well.)
> 
> Thanks again for all your help guys! And THANK YOU @Guidostrunk for being the guinea pig that led us to this fantastic mod! I'm so glad I get to enjoy this for the next week before my new Mogwai arrives! (Hoping the Mogwai doesn't outclass it to the point where I feel like selling it, but if it does se la vie I guess.  )



Wow. Only  .51a of current doesn't sound too bad at all. I might have to give this a try


----------



## Guidostrunk

SmashBruh said:


> So @dpump was right and it was indeed the adaptor that was amiss. Garage1217 was amazing though and replaced my adaptor for an appropriate one almost immediately. I could not be more impressed with his customer service!
> 
> Listening to an RCA VT-231 grey bottle now, and it makes the amp sound absolutely incredible with my atticus! Resolution, soundstage and extension have all increased by quite a margin. To my ears it also sounds waaay more euphonic than the Tung-Sol 6C8G without sacrificing a lick of detail. Frankly I could not be happier! It's a whole new amp! Btw, I would also like to report that it is completely unnecessary to provide the CTH with more than 1.25a. I decided to try it with my LPS set to the default limiting number and with the RCA the max amp draw has not been greater than .51a (I tried a Ken-rad and Sylvania VT-231s as well and both of them seemed to stick to around the same amperage as well.)
> 
> Thanks again for all your help guys! And THANK YOU @Guidostrunk for being the guinea pig that led us to this fantastic mod! I'm so glad I get to enjoy this for the next week before my new Mogwai arrives! (Hoping the Mogwai doesn't outclass it to the point where I feel like selling it, but if it does se la vie I guess.  )


----------



## SmashBruh (Nov 21, 2019)

Wow. I'm truly impressed. This is little amp is performing so incredibly amazingly! I was just listening to "Abracadabra" by the Steve Miller band and I don't think I've ever heard such holographic and lush sound come out of my CTH!! Massdrop should really consider making a version of this amp where the 6SN7 is the spec tube because it really makes a world of difference! I want to say this is performing almost as well as my upgraded bottlehead mainline; but I might be being overly enthusiastic there. There'll probably be a shootout between the two in my home at some point though...


----------



## Allegro maestoso

Not sure if this is the right place or time to jump in here, but here goes...

_HISS_

I've had my CTH since April of 2018, and I love it. I've recently moved it from home to the ofiice, and I'm getting hiss from my Meze 99 Neos and my Beyer DT-880 32 ohm headphones plugged into the 1/4" jack.The hiss decreases as I turn the volume pot up. I never noticed hiss before on any headphone I've plugged into this amp. Is it possible that the stock tube has gone south? Or is it something gnarlier like power supply/grounding? Something else? Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.


----------



## Mark Bajkowski

Allegro maestoso said:


> Not sure if this is the right place or time to jump in here, but here goes...
> 
> _HISS_
> 
> I've had my CTH since April of 2018, and I love it. I've recently moved it from home to the ofiice, and I'm getting hiss from my Meze 99 Neos and my Beyer DT-880 32 ohm headphones plugged into the 1/4" jack.The hiss decreases as I turn the volume pot up. I never noticed hiss before on any headphone I've plugged into this amp. Is it possible that the stock tube has gone south? Or is it something gnarlier like power supply/grounding? Something else? Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.



As a general rule, hiss in a tube-amp stage can relate to ineffective filtering and often results from an ineffective/disconnected capacitor somewhere. Did you drop or banged the unit during the move? Even if not, I would actually tap it quite strongly to see if there is any intermittent change of the hiss level.


----------



## Allegro maestoso

Mark Bajkowski said:


> As a general rule, hiss in a tube-amp stage can relate to ineffective filtering and often results from an ineffective/disconnected capacitor somewhere. Did you drop or banged the unit during the move? Even if not, I would actually tap it quite strongly to see if there is any intermittent change of the hiss level.



No, I'm pretty sure I didn't bump or bang it, but I will give it a solid thump Monday morning when I go back into the office.


----------



## PaganDL

Allegro maestoso said:


> Not sure if this is the right place or time to jump in here, but here goes...
> 
> _HISS_
> 
> I've had my CTH since April of 2018, and I love it. I've recently moved it from home to the ofiice, and I'm getting hiss from my Meze 99 Neos and my Beyer DT-880 32 ohm headphones plugged into the 1/4" jack.The hiss decreases as I turn the volume pot up. I never noticed hiss before on any headphone I've plugged into this amp. Is it possible that the stock tube has gone south? Or is it something gnarlier like power supply/grounding? Something else? Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.




@Allegro maestoso,

What @Mark Bajkowski stated is likely possible as there are always possible issues with electronic parts, especially if something has been dropped but from the sounds of things, it is more than likely just the [I/]'normal'[/I] hiss tubes make.
Electro Harmonix is the CTH stock tube & well known for being noisy to some degree though this will also depend on head gear used, eg impedence & sensitvity, how loud you listen as well as how quiet the media you are listening to is.
In general, depending on circuit design & implementation, tube amps noise output can vary from mains point to mains point too which might explain why you hear more noise now on your slightly more sensitive headphones.

Things to note about tube amps & tubes in general :
*
1.  No matter the tube & or amp, regardless of cost, they will all make some noise or hiss, as that is the nature of tubes, there is no silent tube but there are definitely ways the tube noise can be reduced.
2.  The tube type is an obvious primary factor as some tubes & some tube brands are more noisy than others, eg, Mullard, Genelax, Jan, JJ Electronics, Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, etc
3.  Noisy tubes can also have high gain &/or microphonics (eg, that bell like sound when a tube amp is tapped, regardless whether the amp is on or not & head gear &/or speakers are plugged in)
4.  Some tube suppliers can also adjust Tube Gain, Microphonics, Noise as per customer request.
5.  Tubes which are known to be noisy are generally also more commonly used in guitar amps as those tubes tend to be easily available as well as affordable to a degree so I suggest searching for tubes which have low noise, low gain (unless you want that) & low microphonics.
6.  As stated above, electronics & other components used as well as design implementation plays a significant part in tube amp design or any electronics for that matter, though this doesn't mean a fairly quiet amp, tube or solid, has to be ridiculously expensive just because.
But some manufacturers would like you believe this is true.
*
There are ways to reduce general [I/]'normal'[/I] hiss from tubes though it will depend on how far you want to take things to reduce that hiss.
*
1.  Have a good powerboard &/or mains outlet with good EMI/RF protection &/mitagation is perhaps the most basic step one can take.
2.  Try a less noisy tube.
3.  Change your cables &/or power supply to see if this makes a difference though this will depend on your budget & how much you believe in tuning sound.
*

Hope you find this useful, feel free to ask more if you need.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## Allegro maestoso

PaganDL said:


> @Allegro maestoso,
> 
> What @Mark Bajkowski stated is likely possible as there are always possible issues with electronic parts, especially if something has been dropped but from the sounds of things, it is more than likely just the [I/]'normal'[/I] hiss tubes make.
> Electro Harmonix is the CTH stock tube & well known for being noisy to some degree though this will also depend on head gear used, eg impedence & sensitvity, how loud you listen as well as how quiet the media you are listening to is.
> ...



This is excellent advice. Thank you or taking the time to reply in such good detail. It's comforting to know that nothing is terribly wrong, that some level of noise can be expected, and that there are a number of variables in play. Funny that I never noticed it before, but I think it was probably the Mezes that got me to hear it obviously - they are quite sensitive, and the closed backs really keep out ambient noise. I tried my Sendy Aivas (1/4" and XLR) and Nighthawk Carbons yesterday, and it does seem to correspond to headphone sensitivity - the Hawks were quieter than the Mezes, and the Aivas were the best of the three, especially from the XLR out. I've used my Elegias a lot with this amp, too, and the noise is virtually inaudible. Also, it may be psychological, but it seems like the hiss gradually diminishes the longer the amp is on.

I'm not in a rush to spend money (extravagantly or modestly) on a power supply, AC cleaner, or the legendary perfect tube. Maybe some day, one step at a time, but for now, I'll be fine learning to accept and maybe even appreciate the sound as is. And oh yeah, give it a good (careful) thump.


----------



## Mark Bajkowski

Allegro maestoso said:


> ...It's comforting to know that nothing is terribly wrong, that some level of noise can be expected, and that there are a number of variables in play. ...



Based on your last comment, I suspect your noise is acceptable but it also introduces a possibility of environmental interference like EMF noise in your office -- offices tend to be more saturated with industrial noise -- and those may include fluorescent lighting banks, switching power supplies, any devices with electric motor, even inductive stoves, fans, etc. Higher-frequencies get into an audio path through inductive coupling from the proximity of an EMF emitter which sometimes can not be fully controlled by amp as in a case of substandard grounding, not to mention the CTH has its vacuum tube quite exposed. Maybe also move the amp to other areas in your office just to detect any noise variation.


----------



## Yh173088

I’m new to tubes and I recently got a used mass drop CTH . It stopped working today . No sound . Double checked my headphones and rca cable and they are working . Am wondering if my tube is busted ?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Yh173088 said:


> I’m new to tubes and I recently got a used mass drop CTH . It stopped working today . No sound . Double checked my headphones and rca cable and they are working . Am wondering if my tube is busted ?



Likely a dead tube, did you turn it off when you stopped using it? I've had a tube die in one months time in my CTH


----------



## Yh173088

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Likely a dead tube, did you turn it off when you stopped using it? I've had a tube die in one months time in my CTH


I did but previous owner had mentioned he had the unit for around a year . I’m hoping it’s just the tube . When u have a dead tube , does it not make any sound at all ? I’m new to tubes so I am not really sure what to expect in such a situation .


----------



## Guidostrunk

No sound if the tube is dead. Does the tube look kinda white at the top? 


Yh173088 said:


> I did but previous owner had mentioned he had the unit for around a year . I’m hoping it’s just the tube . When u have a dead tube , does it not make any sound at all ? I’m new to tubes so I am not really sure what to expect in such a situation .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just switched to a CBS Hytron 5692 , red base(rugged version of 6sn7). Good God is this tube fantastic! Kinda pricey but deals can be had on Ebay. I scored one last week for $40 shipped. 
This was my second favorite tube when I had my Woo Wa6. Only bettered by the GEC CV181.


----------



## Yh173088

Guidostrunk said:


> No sound if the tube is dead. Does the tube look kinda white at the top?


Are u talking about the very tip of the tube ? Checked and shined a light on it and it does appear white


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep, at the top. If its white it's toast. I have a stock tube if you want it. PM me your addy and I'll ship it out to you tomorrow.


Yh173088 said:


> Are u talking about the very tip of the tube ? Checked and shined a light on it and it does appear white


----------



## Yh173088

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep, at the top. If its white it's toast. I have a stock tube if you want it. PM me your addy and I'll ship it out to you tomorrow.


Thank you ! 
I don’t live in the US , I live in Singapore so should be easier if I try getting from my local store . But thanks again for clarifying how to identify a busted tube . 
I only had it for a few hours but I did enjoy listening on it .


----------



## jrhill

If you have difficulty finding one, suggest you ask Ivan Cheng (Norman Audio at the Adelphi) - pretty sure he'd have a good one.


----------



## Yh173088

Got my hands on Chinese made tube 6DJ8 as the 6299eh was out of stock . And the amp is working now , it was a busted tube .


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Dec 1, 2019)

So I finally found a tube that made the HE-500 do some backflips for me, unfortunately I need to make sure I get more before I recommend them and have the one site I found selling them NOS run out of their stock. However! The reviewer that turned me onto this _secret_ tube said he liked this Reflector 6H23P even more, and it's on sale! https://www.thetubestore.com/6h23n-eb-6922

I already ordered two, so feel free to buy out the stock here . I have not found a great tube for acoustic music ('JJ tesla' is the best so far which isn't saying much) so I'm hoping Reflector will be the chosen one.

As far as the _secret _tube, it invalidates all my other tubes thus far with great imaging and mid and treble that is immediate and not restrained in it's speed at all. There's a lot of air that's quite euphoric and some of the tightest bass I've heard on the MCTH. I hope I can buy more and tell yall the name soon.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Sorry to double post, I purchased more of the tubes that couldn't be named and wanted to post the link to the seller here. It's the Tesla E88CC #32. https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=884

Currently listening to the Reflector 6H23P I bought on sale, unfortunately one of the tubes stopped pulling enough current and doesn't work anymore so hopefully I get a replacement. It sounds a bit more closed in than the Tesla's but it's very detail oriented, especially in the mids. Almost sounds like there isn't a tube which is very opposite the tesla which has tons of air and exuberance. Just not as detailed in the mids. At $60 a tube for the Reflector, I would choose the Tesla at only $25 if you need a pair of tubes. I'll probably be mass selling the rest of my 6922 so hit me up if you want to try a couple tubes for real cheap.


----------



## Ninja Theory

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Sorry to double post, I purchased more of the tubes that couldn't be named and wanted to post the link to the seller here. It's the Tesla E88CC #32. https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=884
> 
> Currently listening to the Reflector 6H23P I bought on sale, unfortunately one of the tubes stopped pulling enough current and doesn't work anymore so hopefully I get a replacement. It sounds a bit more closed in than the Tesla's but it's very detail oriented, especially in the mids. Almost sounds like there isn't a tube which is very opposite the tesla which has tons of air and exuberance. Just not as detailed in the mids. At $60 a tube for the Reflector, I would choose the Tesla at only $25 if you need a pair of tubes. I'll probably be mass selling the rest of my 6922 so hit me up if you want to try a couple tubes for real cheap.


Thanks for sharing this. My CTH arrives tomorrow. I'm going to keep it vanilla for a month or two and then surely buy the Tesla.


----------



## PaganDL

@Ninja Theory,

As @BrokeSkoolBoi recommended, the Tesla isn't bad though honestly, personally & subjectively, I like the Reflector Premium a lot more, too bad I don't have the Liquid Platinum, otherwise I have 2 Reflectors on that.

Oh well, one day...

Hope everyone has a great day !


----------



## Ninja Theory

PaganDL said:


> @Ninja Theory,
> 
> As @BrokeSkoolBoi recommended, the Tesla isn't bad though honestly, personally & subjectively, I like the Reflector Premium a lot more, too bad I don't have the Liquid Platinum, otherwise I have 2 Reflectors on that.
> 
> ...


I bought a 61NP-EB and 6N6P. Incoming. Will report back next week. Both tubes come HIGHLY recommended for the Cavalli.

I'm thoroughly enjoying this little amp. It arrived today. It's warm and inviting, and it paints with a thicker brush than the 789 but it also let's you know that detail is not always king. That said, I'm looking forward to the new tubes. The stock 6922 Electro Harmonix is ok but I know the CTH has more to give.. still, it's highly enjoyable and I'm loving every minute with it before the new tubes arrive. It certainly has a spot in this (unplanned) Drop stack that found its way to my desk.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Jul 29, 2020)

The Reflector I have make me understand why people insist on buying tube amps. It's either making my music do acrobatics or just allowing my music to come through with enough clarity that the imaging is preserved while retaining tube euphoria. I've never had an OTL tube amp, but I'm surprised that the CTH isn't one from what I'm hearing.


----------



## PaganDL

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> The Reflector I have make me understand why people insist on buying tube amps. It's either making my music do acrobatics or it actually is just allowing my music to come through with enough clarity that imaging is preserved while I also get tube euphoria. I've never had an OTL tube amp, but I'm surprised that the CTH isn't one from what I'm hearing.




This is the unsung miracle of a good to outstanding tube, @BrokeSkoolBoi, otherwise known as a *hidden treasure tube*.

Hope you continue to enjoy your listening experience & don't forget to try & find new headphone synergies with the Reflector in place.

I would also suggest looking for really atmospheric &/or well recorded music to enhance your listening experience even further.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## magicscreen

PaganDL said:


> *1.  No matter the tube & or amp, regardless of cost, they will all make some noise or hiss, as that is the nature of tubes, there is no silent tube but there are definitely ways the tube noise can be reduced.*



My Loxjie P20 headphone amplifier has zero noise at full volume.
With both the stock chinese and the replacing russian tubes.


----------



## PaganDL

magicscreen said:


> My Loxjie P20 headphone amplifier has zero noise at full volume.
> With both the stock chinese and the replacing russian tubes.




Hi @magicscreen,

Just out of curiosity, what are you using with the P20 to get zero noise?

If it wasn't clear before as not sure I mentioned it on this thread but I have quite sensitive hearing so I can hear a lot at low volume among other things which is why for example I can't use IFI IE Match as I still hear the noise as clearly as if IE Match wasn't in place.
I also may not have clarified but P20 is perhaps the quietest tube amp, especially for IEMs, I have used so far & I have used a lot of tube amps...

Hope you're not actually *listening* at full volume...

Also


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I hope this post contains value for some. I have purchased a dt1990 which will arrive next week. Fingers crossed I can relay news of good synergy and some softened treble. 

Lately I've been eyeing the Bifrost 2 for it's phase switching capabilities. Hopefully I can find one on the used market!


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Feb 12, 2020)

So I finally got the dt1990 yesterday and it sounds phenomenal with a reflector tube. The 8k spike for those who don't know is not something a tube will rectify, but it can make it less painful at times than it would be otherwise. 


As soon as you play any music you feel like your ears are hearing the air in the space which everything was recorded. It's really amazing, I listened to well recorded Heifetz and I could hear all all instruments with their correct timbre and exact articulation. I felt like I was in the concert hall, and for a moment I forgot I was listening to headphones. It's the closest I'll ever get to hearing Heifetz live, and for that I am very grateful.

Prefer the analytical pads over the balanced. Don't see why you would want boomy bass when the mid and treble are so accurate.


----------



## alterndog

For a while I was getting a scratchy noise when I turned the dial in the left ear. Now even after I stop turning the dial I am getting a scratchy noise in the left ear when no music is playing. I sometimes hear it when I play music. Any idea on what this is and how I can potentially fix the issue?


----------



## Cassadian

How do I connect my desktop computer to this device?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Cassadian said:


> How do I connect my desktop computer to this device?



If you have the sdac version, use a USB b micro to USB A and connect the USB A to your computer. Voila!

If you don't have the Sdac version, you need a dac to connect to your computer for the best results. I would suggest a modi 3 or grace sdac. Connect those to your computer with the necessary USB cables. (I believe modi 3 needs USB b to USB A). And then buy a cheap rca cable (the red and white one) to connect the dac to the Cavalli tube hybrid.


----------



## Cassadian

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> If you have the sdac version, use a USB b micro to USB A and connect the USB A to your computer. Voila!
> 
> If you don't have the Sdac version, you need a dac to connect to your computer for the best results. I would suggest a modi 3 or grace sdac. Connect those to your computer with the necessary USB cables. (I believe modi 3 needs USB b to USB A). And then buy a cheap rca cable (the red and white one) to connect the dac to the Cavalli tube hybrid.



Amazing!  Thank you!  So since I have the SDAC version, all I need is the micro-usb cable that comes with the device.  In essence, no cables need to be purchased.

Would I benefit from purchasing an aftermarket USB b micro to USB A cable?


----------



## ls13coco

Cassadian said:


> Amazing!  Thank you!  So since I have the SDAC version, all I need is the micro-usb cable that comes with the device.  In essence, no cables need to be purchased.
> 
> Would I benefit from purchasing an aftermarket USB b micro to USB A cable?



I personally wouldn't concern myself much with the usb cable, but if down the road you want to get just a little more out of it, maybe a Linear power supply.

I'm uncertain if that works with the sdac variant as I have the standalone amp version, just to clarify.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

ls13coco said:


> I personally wouldn't concern myself much with the usb cable, but if down the road you want to get just a little more out of it, maybe a Linear power supply.
> 
> I'm uncertain if that works with the sdac variant as I have the standalone amp version, just to clarify.


 Linear power supply works fine with both. I would also suggest the 6H23P tube if you use an LPS. I'm currently using the stock cable with no issues. Sounds more detailed than the d70 I had too


----------



## swampy1977

Is this sold elsewhere? I would love to buy it in Europe.


----------



## Zulkr9

I would love to know if using the 6sn7 or 6cg8 results in hum or noise with Aeon or lower impeadance phones. Are there any repercussions using the 6sn7 tubes as some people mentioned that they have a higher heater current requirement.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wouldn't reccomend using 6sn7 unless you have an external LPS. The wall wart isn't up to the task. 

I've used both 6c8g and 6sn7 with Focal Clear and experienced no hum issues. Others have though.


----------



## Zulkr9

Thanks for the quick reply, why do you think the hum issues are persistent, well I reckon maybe bad tubes, or high gain tubes.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Zulkr9 said:


> I would love to know if using the 6sn7 or 6cg8 results in hum or noise with Aeon or lower impeadance phones. Are there any repercussions using the 6sn7 tubes as some people mentioned that they have a higher heater current requirement.



Use non-specified tubes at your own risk. In particular, I believe that 6sn7 tubes are outside the specs of this amp. No idea if power supply upgrade would address that or not. Cavalli posts on some forums and maybe here (username runeeight IIRC). Perhaps there is a post from him that addresses your question.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's fine to run 6sn7 with LPS. Never an issue and I had my mcth for over a year running all types of tubes with adapters. The 6sn7 runs at 600ma which is twice that of a 6922. The reason I don't recommend running 6sn7 with the wall wart. There's a few of us pages back that have run 6sn7 without issue. It's not recommended but rollers will roll lol.


----------



## logicalform

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Sorry to double post, I purchased more of the tubes that couldn't be named and wanted to post the link to the seller here. It's the Tesla E88CC #32. https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=884
> 
> Currently listening to the Reflector 6H23P I bought on sale, unfortunately one of the tubes stopped pulling enough current and doesn't work anymore so hopefully I get a replacement. It sounds a bit more closed in than the Tesla's but it's very detail oriented, especially in the mids. Almost sounds like there isn't a tube which is very opposite the tesla which has tons of air and exuberance. Just not as detailed in the mids. At $60 a tube for the Reflector, I would choose the Tesla at only $25 if you need a pair of tubes. I'll probably be mass selling the rest of my 6922 so hit me up if you want to try a couple tubes for real cheap.



@BrokeSkoolBoi Are you still liking the Tesla ? I think the EH that came with mine is bad, as it makes a ringing/rattling sound in the left channel when anything knocks the amp or the table it's on, and it sounds like there's a bit of a channel imbalance (hoping this is not the amp itself). Trying to decide if I should just get another EH, as most reviewers recommend, or try something different, like the Tesla.


----------



## grooveriders

Can I use XLR to 2.5mm balanced adapter with the CTH. I know that the XLR output of the CTH is unbalance but I wanted to try out my 2.5mm balance trrs iem cable on the CTH. Will the balanced connection damage the CTH amp or the iem?
The xlr to 2.5mm adapter I'm talking about. https://drop.com/buy/drop-4-pin-xlr-to-trrs-adapter


----------



## buke9

grooveriders said:


> Can I use XLR to 2.5mm balanced adapter with the CTH. I know that the XLR output of the CTH is unbalance but I wanted to try out my 2.5mm balance trrs iem cable on the CTH. Will the balanced connection damage the CTH amp or the iem?
> The xlr to 2.5mm adapter I'm talking about. https://drop.com/buy/drop-4-pin-xlr-to-trrs-adapter


No problem at all.


----------



## grooveriders

buke9 said:


> No problem at all.


Thanks Buke


----------



## buke9

grooveriders said:


> Thanks Buke


Not a problem. I have the same adapter myself.


----------



## grooveriders

buke9 said:


> Not a problem. I have the same adapter myself.


Im still waiting for mine, ordered since the 7th.


----------



## Louisiana

Hi,

I have also recently had a CTH, as DAC I use the ADI-2 DAC FS, and I`m very satisfied with the sound.
In my opinion, the CTH makes a wider stage than the ADI2, and adds a little bit of warmth - a great setup in connection with my Hifiman Ananda.

I just want to try a different Tube than the standard 6922, what recommendations do you have for me?
I also saw that some people bought an LPS, what is the advantage?
In Germany we have 220V, would such an LPS also be worthwhile for me?


----------



## 340519

I just bought one of these on drop and a gold lion tube from the tube store to go with it. Sweet.


----------



## GUNHO

I'm looking at buying a lps any recommendations abd help hooking up ? I just scored a cth+sdac for $130


----------



## buke9

I guess I need to try a LPS for this and a few other amps but not holding too much on it but it is worth a shot.


----------



## 340519

By what I have seen in the reviews on the web, it should drive all of my cans.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Jul 29, 2020)

logicalform said:


> @BrokeSkoolBoi Are you still liking the Tesla ? I think the EH that came with mine is bad, as it makes a ringing/rattling sound in the left channel when anything knocks the amp or the table it's on, and it sounds like there's a bit of a channel imbalance (hoping this is not the amp itself). Trying to decide if I should just get another EH, as most reviewers recommend, or try something different, like the Tesla.




I was thinking this thread was dead, never got any notifications.

If you want to test your amp to see if it's making the noise buy a cheap jj tesla tube to test.

If you're not using an LPS, the NOS tesla e88cc tube may be a good match. However, with LPS the only tube I can recommend is the Reflector 6H23P.

I have 3 NOS tesla tubes for sale if anyone wants. Two new, one slightly used. Had to wait 3 weeks to get them from Russia, that's why I offer.

@Louisiana

The LPS makes the CTH sound more extroverted. After spending almost two years with it, I can say it's a positive and a negative. Drives your headphones with more gusto.

All comes down to your dac not being too in your face. Sdac is a less than ideal match in this way, but it's still ton of fun, and I ran that combo for a year.

If you plan on keeping the amp for awhile, I would highly suggest you try an LPS. I've retired the amp from my PC desk, but I could never sell it off because of the enjoyment it gave me with my sennheisers.


----------



## 340519

Drop just notified me my CTH shipped today.  Sweet.


----------



## Slade01 (Aug 5, 2020)

....


----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519

The amp sounds fantastic.  Highly recommended!


----------



## sennfan83261 (Aug 14, 2020)

Holy soundstage Batman! So, I have a bunch of 6C8G's whose AF is too high for use with my Darkvoice 336SE with the Fitz mod; I already acquired them pre-modding my DV. So, I picked up the CTH a few weeks ago since it was only $175 and I've been pleased with it, particularly with my HD800S and an Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8. I read about people using 6C8G's with their CTH. And here I am with a 6F8G-6SN7 adapter that grabbed from my Darkvoice before leaving my city apartment for the countryside due to the pandemic. I received the 6SN7-6922 adapter today. Looking back, I should have ordered a 6F8G-ECC88 adapter instead to avoid the silliness shown below.

Anyways, the 6C8G is as microphonic as ever but thankfully, outside of microphonics, there's no noise unlike the stock 6922 and the aforementioned 6DJ8. The pictured National Union 6C8G (I love the NU 6F8G in my DV) provided a huge soundstage to my Arya's, unnaturally wide sadly. With the HD6XX, wow. Soundstage and layering galore at the expense of some of the mids and more reverb unfortunately. Really cool effect with classical music though.

Hey @JKDJedi, look at the ridiculousness below.


----------



## JKDJedi

sennfan83261 said:


> Holy soundstage Batman! So, I have a bunch of 6C8G's whose AF is too high for use with my Darkvoice 336SE with the Fitz mod; I already acquired them pre-modding my DV. So, I picked up the CTH a few weeks ago since it was only $175 and I've been pleased with it, particularly with my HD800S and Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8. I read about people using 6C8G's with their CTH. And here I am with a 6F8G-6SN7 adapter that grabbed from my Darkvoice before leaving my city apartment for the countryside due to the pandemic. I received the 6SN7-6922 adapter today. Looking back, I should have ordered a 6F8G-ECC88 adapter instead to avoid the silliness shown below. The 6C8G is as microphonic as ever but thankfully, outside of microphonics, there's no noise unlike the stock 6922 and the aforementioned 6DJ8. Anyways, the pictured National Union 6C8G (I love the NU 6F8G in my DV) provided a huge soundstage to my Arya's, unnaturally wide sadly. With the HD6XX, wow. Soundstage and layering galore at the expense of the some of the mids and more reverb. Really cool effect with classical music though. Hey @JKDJedi, look at the ridiculousness below.


Sexy!!! Love it!!


----------



## magicscreen

sennfan83261 said:


> The pictured National Union 6C8G (I love the NU 6F8G in my DV)



I do not understand. 6C8G or 6F8G?


----------



## Slade01

magicscreen said:


> I do not understand. 6C8G or 6F8G?


Only 6C8G in the MCTH this tube draws in line the same as a 6922.  The 6F8G draws to much current...could damage your amp.


----------



## JKDJedi

Slade01 said:


> Only 6C8G in the MCTH this tube draws in line the same as a 6922.  The 6F8G draws to much current...could damage your amp.


I thought the 6C8G had the higher gain🤔


----------



## Slade01

JKDJedi said:


> I thought the 6C8G had the higher gain🤔


 
it does, but the amount of current heater draw has no effect (seperate from) gain.  6F8G draws 600ma, the 6C8G draws 300ma.  MCTH is spec'd for tubes to draw at 300ma hence 6922 or 6C8G are the safer bets.


----------



## JKDJedi

Slade01 said:


> it does, but the amount of current heater draw has no effect (seperate from) gain.  6F8G draws 600ma, the 6C8G draws 300ma.  MCTH is spec'd for tubes to draw at 300ma hence 6922 or 6C8G are the safer bets.


They should run cooler then... Interesting!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you add an external LPS like an Acopian. You can run the amp at 600ma. I ran 6sn7 in mine for about 6 months with no issues whatsoever until I moved on to the Liquid Platinum. 

The 6c8g isn't bad. Consider looking into 12at7 and 12au7. Soundstage like the 6c8g with the tonal balance of the 5670/396a tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Forgot to mention that you'll need an adapter to run 12a*7.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Somebody asked why the LPS isn't a complete benefit. 

The CTH isn't a perfect amp, the bass is too shy and it's rather polite in it's presentation. An LPS increases the bass presence, but it also increases everything else, this makes things sound claustrophobic. 

Now where you once wanted a more forward tube /dac, you need a tube/dac with more chill. Frankly LPS CTH gave me a headache with the sdac all the time. 

After removing the LPS, I tried the Tesla NOS '32' E88CC and it's the only upgrade I would recommend as it's cheap, brings more clarity to everything, and makes the sound slightly more engaging. 

You can buy the tesla tube for $25 dollars, it's better than every other E88CC/6922 tube I've tried with stock CTH.


----------



## lifeisbeautiful

I posted this as a separate question. But, thought would ask it here too. How does the mass drop CTH compare to the Schiit Vali 2?
Thanks.


----------



## sennfan83261

lifeisbeautiful said:


> I posted this as a separate question. But, thought would ask it here too. How does the mass drop CTH compare to the Schiit Vali 2?
> Thanks.


Post #13 on the first page of this thread is a review of the CTH compared against the Vali 2.


----------



## Zulkr9

Does anyone own an MCTH and a sundara. to get things loud enough I need to go all the way to 3 oclock .-.


----------



## ruinedx

Zulkr9 said:


> Does anyone own an MCTH and a sundara. to get things loud enough I need to go all the way to 3 oclock .-.


The Sundara demands a ton of power.

You may want to step up to the Liquid Platinum, it has more juice than the MCTH and a similar house sound


----------



## 47anLoken

Zulkr9 said:


> Does anyone own an MCTH and a sundara. to get things loud enough I need to go all the way to 3 oclock .-.



I've tried that combination. No problem at all for me, loud enough at 10 o'clock. About the same as my Sennheiser HD 6XX.


----------



## wowyahoo

I'm having trouble finding a 6922 to 6c8g adapter, 9 pin socket saver, and the 6c8g tung sol tube. Where do you buy these online? Do you have to find a online store overseas?


----------



## JKDJedi

wowyahoo said:


> I'm having trouble finding a 6922 to 6c8g adapter, 9 pin socket saver, and the 6c8g tung sol tube. Where do you buy these online? Do you have to find a online store overseas?


https://www.amazon.com/TUNG-SOL-Round-Coated-Amplitrex-Tested/dp/B07RQ6X4P4

and @Deyan can make that adapter for ya.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Oct 7, 2020)

wowyahoo said:


> I'm having trouble finding a 6922 to 6c8g adapter, 9 pin socket saver, and the 6c8g tung sol tube. Where do you buy these online? Do you have to find a online store overseas?


6C8G adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gol...N6-tube-converter-adapter-socket/193442645957

You will also need a 6922 socket saver unless you are going to widen the hole on top of your CTH chassis yourself.

As for Tung-Sol 6C8G's, they are good but not $100 better than Sylvania/Philco 6C8G's (Sylvania manufacturered tubes for Philco back then).


----------



## Deyan

sennfan83261 said:


> 6C8G adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gol...N6-tube-converter-adapter-socket/193442645957
> 
> You will also need a 6922 socket saver unless you are going to widen the hole on top of your CTH chassis yourself.
> 
> As for Tung-Sol 6C8G's, they are good but not $100 better than Sylvania/Philco 6C8G's (Sylvania manufacturered tubes for Philco back then).



Or an adapter that looks like this will eliminate the need for a socket saver:


----------



## wowyahoo

Thank you for your help. However, it looks like I overlooked a humming issue for low impedance headphones using 6C8G. I have a pair of focal elegia. Does anyone have any tube recommendations for low impedance headphones? I wanted something to make the MCTH as tubey as possible.


----------



## HTSkywalker

dmdm said:


>


See you are suing the CTH with a Clear, am planning to get one for my Elear, what's your impressions ?


----------



## 340519

HTSkywalker said:


> See you are suing the CTH with a Clear, am planning to get one for my Elear, what's your impressions ?


Sorry I sold the clears and the cth.


----------



## HTSkywalker

dmdm said:


> Sorry I sold the clears and the cth.


Thanks, enjoy your new gear


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

HTSkywalker said:


> Thanks, enjoy your new gear


Elex paired very well in my experience, very live sound.


----------



## HTSkywalker

Any recommendations for the best sounding 6922/E88CC tubes ?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

HTSkywalker said:


> Any recommendations for the best sounding 6922/E88CC tubes ?


Save your money for a better amp or dac. Tube won't help you much, euphonic tubes make the amp lose its jack of all trades quality.


----------



## HTSkywalker

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Save your money for a better amp or dac. Tube won't help you much, euphonic tubes make the amp lose its jack of all trades quality.


Thanks sounds like a wise recommendation but since I didn't pull the trigger yet on the CTH and since I already have a Violectric SS amp but like to try the tube sound, any recommendations toward a better amp ? or a pre=amp as I can loop it in prior to the Violectric ?
a pure tube is not a choice since I have a Planar (ananda) along with a Focal Elear.


----------



## sennfan83261

HTSkywalker said:


> Any recommendations for the best sounding 6922/E88CC tubes ?


Tbh, I didn't really like the ECC88 family that I've tried, which are the stock 6922 (didn't really allow it to burn in for too long), an Amperex 6DJ8 1960's Bugle Boy (large O-getter), and an Amperex 6DJ8 orange globe. I prefer Tung-Sol and Sylvania 6C8G's (Tung-Sol's have a wide soundstage and Sylvania's provide a richer tone) and Western Electric 396A's (great tone) to the ECC88's that I've tried. The 6C8G and 396A requires separate adapters. The 6C8G's can still be had for relatively cheap prices. However, the 6C8G and the 396A are noisier than the ECC88, the 6C8G particularly being prone to microphonics (don't set the CTH on a hard surface next to you). My CTH sits on stand with rubber feet. Moving it up there from my desk eliminated all of the microphonics unless I slam my fists down on my desk.


----------



## HTSkywalker

sennfan83261 said:


> Tbh, I didn't really like the ECC88 family that I've tried, which are the stock 6922 (didn't really allow it to burn in for too long), an Amperex 6DJ8 1960's Bugle Boy (large O-getter), and an Amperex 6DJ8 orange globe. I prefer Tung-Sol and Sylvania 6C8G's (Tung-Sol's have a wide soundstage and Sylvania's provide a richer tone) and Western Electric 396A's (great tone) to the ECC88's that I've tried. The 6C8G and 396A requires separate adapters. The 6C8G's can still be had for relatively cheap prices. However, the 6C8G and the 396A are noisier than the ECC88, the 6C8G particularly being prone to microphonics (don't set the CTH on a hard surface next to you). My CTH sits on stand with rubber feet. Moving it up there from my desk eliminated all of the microphonics unless I slam my fists down on my desk.


Thanks for the recommendation, the Tung-Sol or Sylvania requires more power than the stock 6922 ? 
seems you also have the Liquid Platinum, how does it compare with the CTH ?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I hear the Schiit pre amps are pretty good. Saga + or Freya +, I don't remember which had more of a following. I would definitely do a Google search or which is better.


----------



## HTSkywalker

You think the Saga would  scale better as a Tube pre-amp prior to my Violectric  compared to the CTH ?


----------



## HTSkywalker

Louisiana said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have also recently had a CTH, as DAC I use the ADI-2 DAC FS, and I`m very satisfied with the sound.
> In my opinion, the CTH makes a wider stage than the ADI2, and adds a little bit of warmth - a great setup in connection with my Hifiman Ananda.
> ...


Any hiss or noise when playing at low level due to the Ananda low impedance ? does it drive the Ananda loud enough to its full 100+Db capacity ?
Thanks


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

HTSkywalker said:


> You think the Saga would  scale better as a Tube pre-amp prior to my Violectric  compared to the CTH ?





HTSkywalker said:


> You think the Saga would  scale better as a Tube pre-amp prior to my Violectric  compared to the CTH ?


I don't have any experience with it, you should ask around. I think you'll be disappointed in comparison with your Violectric, the CTH does go for cheap on the used market, so it didn't hurt to buy one ~100 and see for yourself


----------



## HTSkywalker

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I don't have any experience with it, you should ask around. I think you'll be disappointed in comparison with your Violectric, the CTH does go for cheap on the used market, so it didn't hurt to buy one ~100 and see for yourself


I know that for such a price it won’t compete with the Violectric, just for the price and good reviews wanted to check on the tube vibe without paying much.


----------



## HTSkywalker

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Save your money for a better amp or dac. Tube won't help you much, euphonic tubes make the amp lose its jack of all trades quality.


Seems you were not impressed with the CTH, i don’t have high expectations myself. It could always be used as a standalone amp sourced by a phone with my Elear cans. Not willing to shell much on the open end tube rolling business anyways ☹️


----------



## HTSkywalker

Received the CTH and the first thing I did was ordering a Golden Lion as well s as a JJ 6922 tubes as well as installing tube guards (attached photo).
Out of the box the CTH performed very well adding warmth and a silky touch to both the Ananda and Elear especially to the vocals.
For $250 it’s a steal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you want to really get the most out of the MCTH. Get one of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Conver...-/232415799770?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

And then one of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-CV4...-/160532992454?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Cheers



HTSkywalker said:


> Received the CTH and the first thing I did was ordering a Golden Lion as well s as a JJ 6922 tubes as well as installing tube guards (attached photo).
> Out of the box the CTH performed very well adding warmth and a silky touch to both the Ananda and Elear especially to the vocals.
> For $250 it’s a steal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Then there's this. Offer $85.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acopian-A2...-/184519882764?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 The mcth is closer to the LP now.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> And then one of these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-CV4...-/160532992454?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


Are you sure you meant 12A*T*7 and not 12A*U*7 tube for the CTH?
I have tried 12AU7 tubes, but never 12AT7 because of gain factor difference.
The *12AT7* has gain factor of 60, while *12AU7* is at just 20...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh yeah. 12at7 runs beautifully in the MCTH. Just not in the LP. I've run 6sn7 in the MCTH but wouldn't recommend it unless you have an external LPS(like the one I linked). 


Zachik said:


> Are you sure you meant 12A*T*7 and not 12A*U*7 tube for the CTH?
> I have tried 12AU7 tubes, but never 12AT7 because of gain factor difference.
> The *12AT7* has gain factor of 60, while *12AU7* is at just 20...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I prefer 12at7 to 12au7 by a fair margin. Better dynamics, bass impact and slam, better resolution, and more dimensional.


----------



## HTSkywalker

Guidostrunk said:


> Then there's this. Offer $85.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acopian-A2...-/184519882764?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
> 
> The mcth is closer to the LP now.


checking both tubes you recommended, do they have the same technical specs for the CTH to handle same as the stock 6922 ? as I don't plan to tax the power board of the CTH and not planning to upgrade the power supply either


----------



## HTSkywalker

besides with additional $200 I better get the Xduoo TA-20 or even a higher model as even Cavalli does not recommend spending much money on rolling for the CTH as it is designed around the 6922. Maybe rolling within the 6922 tubes is fine.
Tube Depot tech guys recommended the Golden Lion E88CC as well as the JJ.


----------



## Guidostrunk

12at7 runs perfectly in the MCTH. It'll bias itself. 
The first link was the adapter needed for 12at7. Second link was the Brimar CV4033. Third link was external LPS. 

There isn't a 6922 regardless of how premium it is that compete with 12at7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

$200? The tube is $45 and adapter is $12. You already stated you wouldn't be getting the LPS. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Suit yourself. Just posting from experience of owning one for 2 years. Lol


----------



## HTSkywalker

Guidostrunk said:


> 12at7 runs perfectly in the MCTH. It'll bias itself.
> The first link was the adapter needed for 12at7. Second link was the Brimar CV4033. Third link was external LPS.
> 
> There isn't a 6922 regardless of how premium it is that compete with 12at7.


So It's possible to get the adapter and the 12AT7 and get the voice advantage without the LPS ? no additional load on the CTH board ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely. I only got the LPS to dabble in 6sn7 tubes that I liked. What's crazy is I actually preferred the 12at7 over 6sn7 lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The advantage of the LPS is better dynamics and bass response. Amp hits harder and gains more impact.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> I prefer 12at7 to 12au7 by a fair margin. Better dynamics, bass impact and slam, better resolution, and more dimensional.


Maybe I should try it... especially since I already got the adapter (same as for 12AU7)


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I prefer 12at7 to 12au7 by a fair margin. Better dynamics, bass impact and slam, better resolution, and more dimensional.


The 12AT7 has an amplification factor (mu) of 60;   for the 12AU7, it is 20.


----------



## HTSkywalker

IS that the same Tube ? as I have a gift card with Tube Depot ?
https://tubedepot.com/products/12at7-ecc81-mullard
or this one
https://tubedepot.com/products/mullard-12at7-ecc81-new-production-preamp-vacuum-tube


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man... if you pair the MCTH with an Airist r2r. You would probably call it quits in your search. It's that good of a combo. There's times I feel I could have just stayed with that combo and been happy but..... I'm just one of those people lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

That I know. And it's irrelevant with the MCTH. lol 


jonathan c said:


> The 12AT7 has an amplification factor (mu) of 60;   for the 12AU7, it is 20.


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> 12at7 runs perfectly in the MCTH. It'll bias itself.
> The first link was the adapter needed for 12at7. Second link was the Brimar CV4033. Third link was external LPS.
> 
> There isn't a 6922 regardless of how premium it is that compete with 12at7.


So... would the Brimar CV4033 be your favorite 12AT7 tube? Do you recommend other 12AT7 tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

No. The cv4033 is hands down one of the best 12at7 I've ever heard. 


HTSkywalker said:


> IS that the same Tube ? as I have a gift card with Tube Depot ?
> https://tubedepot.com/products/12at7-ecc81-mullard
> or this one
> https://tubedepot.com/products/mullard-12at7-ecc81-new-production-preamp-vacuum-tube


----------



## Guidostrunk

In my top 3. 
#1 = CBS Hytron 7728
#2 = CV4033/A2900
#3 = Telefunken ecc801s 


Zachik said:


> So... would the Brimar CV4033 be your favorite 12AT7 tube? Do you recommend other 12AT7 tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

A2900 is a different tube than the cv4033 but imo they're extremely close in sound and you don't have to sell a kidney to buy one lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely! I would love to hear your thoughts once you do. It's a phenomenal tube.


Zachik said:


> Maybe I should try it... especially since I already got the adapter (same as for 12AU7)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Please don't take me wrong folks. I'm only here to help and give some tube advice. 
I've been rolling tubes for years and have rolled a ton lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hell... if you don't want to buy one. When I get my Mjolnir 2 back from being modded I can send you one to listen to lol. Same with the @HTSkywalker 
I have a pair of them.. they're with the modder right now and i should have them back within a week 


Zachik said:


> So... would the Brimar CV4033 be your favorite 12AT7 tube? Do you recommend other 12AT7 tubes?


----------



## HTSkywalker

Guidostrunk said:


> Please don't take me wrong folks. I'm only here to help and give some tube advice.
> I've been rolling tubes for years and have rolled a ton lol.


In fact your input is enlightening but leads to further investments  which to be honest is very tempting. I have A Violectric SS amp which really rocks, wanted to try the tube effect with the CTH which voice attracted me and got me hooked.
Thought the Gold Lion was the best match but definitely would take your recommendation. I will check at both Tube Depot and Amazon as per your recommendation. You can also do so on my behalf lol


----------



## Zachik

Guidostrunk said:


> Absolutely! I would love to hear your thoughts once you do. It's a phenomenal tube.


My CTH (with the RDAC) are my secondary / backup system. Maybe will be my @work system if we ever work from an office again...
For that reason, I am trying to NOT invest any money into it, but then again ~$60 is not a fortune


----------



## Guidostrunk

Save some dough and just get the adapter. When I get my tubes back I'll pm you and send you one to try. I'll feel better knowing I didn't completely send you down the rabbit hole 😂


HTSkywalker said:


> In fact your input is enlightening but leads to further investments  which to be honest is very tempting. I have A Violectric SS amp which really rocks, wanted to try the tube effect with the CTH which voice attracted me and got me hooked.
> Thought the Gold Lion was the best match but definitely would take your recommendation. I will check at both Tube Depot and Amazon as per your recommendation. You can also do so on my behalf lol


----------



## ClementNerma

As there doesn't seem to be a page on Head-Fi dedicated to the CTH, I created on here => https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-tube-hybrid-amp-cth.25003/

Feel free to add your reviews there


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm confused 😕


----------



## ClementNerma

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm confused 😕


Why?


----------



## Guidostrunk

This thread seems pretty dedicated to the MCTH . All the info on this amp is here. Since 2017.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never mind. You made a review page.


----------



## ClementNerma

Guidostrunk said:


> This thread seems pretty dedicated to the MCTH . All the info on this amp is here. Since 2017.


Oh I meant a product page, where you can write reviews a give a rating to the product.

EDIT : too fast ^^


----------



## HTSkywalker

Why on earth this thread went dead ? 😥😥😥
Probably coz you knew I bought a Darkvoice ??? lol


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> Why on earth this thread went dead ? 😥😥😥
> Probably coz you knew I bought a Darkvoice ??? lol


Nah maybe it's just so good people don't even find the words to describe it anymore  ?


----------



## HTSkywalker

Well am burning the stock EH and tested  both the Gold Lion and JJ.
JJ seems the warmest, EH the all rounder and Gold Lion the most analytical and transparent.


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> Well am burning the stock EH and tested  both the Gold Lion and JJ.
> JJ seems the warmest, EH the all rounder and Gold Lion the most analytical and transparent.


Oh right, a question I've been wondering for a while.

Before getting the CTH I had a Bravo Audio Ocean, and I replaced the crappy stock tube with a JJ one (12AU7), which gave a very warm but pleasant sound.

How does a JJ 6922 sound inside the CTH? Does it give the "warm touch" tube amps often give, or is it still mostly neutral (the EH being even more I suppose)?

I'm wondering about getting a JJ tube but the transport fees are high where I live so I'd prefer to not buy it if I'm not sure about the sound


----------



## HTSkywalker

ClementNerma said:


> Oh right, a question I've been wondering for a while.
> 
> Before getting the CTH I had a Bravo Audio Ocean, and I replaced the crappy stock tube with a JJ one (12AU7), which gave a very warm but pleasant sound.
> 
> ...


In fact the JJ was the cheapest tube I got but i need to admit it gives the most warm tubey sound along the 3 I have and in fact my preferred one.
Tube Depot did not have the gold pin version though, so I would recommend it if  you decide to get the JJ.


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> In fact the JJ was the cheapest tube I got but i need to admit it gives the most warm tubey sound along the 3 I have and in fact my preferred one.
> Tube Depot did not have the gold pin version though, so I would recommend it if  you decide to get the JJ.


The only version I can get where I live is the "basic" one, so I'll have to stick with it.
Is there a lot of details loss with this tube compared to the EH? I've seen comments saying the JJ is crappy on this side and others telling it was really good compared to EH tubes.


----------



## HTSkywalker

ClementNerma said:


> The only version I can get where I live is the "basic" one, so I'll have to stick with it.
> Is there a lot of details loss with this tube compared to the EH? I've seen comments saying the JJ is crappy on this side and others telling it was really good compared to EH tubes.


Not much details lost that may affect the listening pleasure. For the cost it’s a steal if you are looking for the tubey sound.
And to be clear, the CTH is designed around the EH and nothing much you can do to affect the sound in a major way. It is a pleasant amp and the JJ is a must for it IMO.
If you want more tube sounding get an OTL. As the CTH got me hooked with the warm sound which lead my to the conclusion that no further investment is worth doing on it as it is really at its best out of the box.
Save any additional investment towards an OTL if you want a full tube experience as long as you have dynamic cans.
The CTH is the closest you can reach using a planar.


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> Not much details lost that may affect the listening pleasure. For the cost it’s a steal if you are looking for the tubey sound.
> And to be clear, the CTH is designed around the EH and nothing much you can do to affect the sound in a major way. It is a pleasant amp and the JJ is a must for it IMO.
> If you want more tube sounding get an OTL. As the CTH got me hooked with the warm sound which lead my to the conclusion that no further investment is worth doing on it as it is really at its best out of the box.
> Save any additional investment towards an OTL if you want a full tube experience as long as you have dynamic cans.
> The CTH is the closest you can reach using a planar.


Thanks for your feedback 

I've thought for a long time about getting an OTL amp such as the Bottlehead Crack or the Xduoo TA-30, but I'm happy with the sound quality and form factor of the CTH + I hate amos that very hot due to the materials of my desk.
I just find the CTH to lack of a *bit* of warmth, so I'll definitely try the JJ tube.
Thanks for your help


----------



## HTSkywalker

ClementNerma said:


> Thanks for your feedback
> 
> I've thought for a long time about getting an OTL amp such as the Bottlehead Crack or the Xduoo TA-30, but I'm happy with the sound quality and form factor of the CTH + I hate amos that very hot due to the materials of my desk.
> I just find the CTH to lack of a *bit* of warmth, so I'll definitely try the JJ tube.
> Thanks for your help


As far as i know the TA-30 is also a hybrid. In fact it’s wise to be satisfied with the CTH as going OTL is an endless rabbit hole 😂😂


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> As far as i know the TA-30 is also a hybrid. In fact it’s wise to be satisfied with the CTH as going OTL is an endless rabbit hole 😂😂


The TA-10 and TA-20 are both hybrid, but the TA-30 is an OTL (you have that big ol' power tube in addition to the preamp tubes).
The main problem with OTL amps is that they tend to cost a lot more than hybrid ones or transistor-based amps, and they heat a lot which is not suitable for my use (I also hate the fact they they usually emit a lot of light). You also have to take care of replacing the power tube after a few years, etc. so that's really a lot more hassle, unless you go straight for a very clean and high-end amp with a four-digit price 

In which case I'm a lot better off my $150 CTH


----------



## Zachik

ClementNerma said:


> The main problem with OTL amps is that they tend to cost a lot more than hybrid ones or transistor-based amps, and they heat a lot which is not suitable for my use (I also hate the fact they they usually emit a lot of light). You also have to take care of replacing the power tube after a few years, etc. so that's really a lot more hassle, unless you go straight for a very clean and high-end amp with a four-digit price


Actually, the #1 reason OTL amps are not more popular is their output impedance... OTL amps are ideal for 300 ohms headphones (ZMF headphones, HD600 and its siblings, HD800, etc). Not ideal match for low impedance headphones and for planars. That makes OTL amps more of a specialized product, whereas hybrids (like the CTH) are more of an all-arounder...


----------



## ClementNerma

Zachik said:


> Actually, the #1 reason OTL amps are not more popular is their output impedance... OTL amps are ideal for 300 ohms headphones (ZMF headphones, HD600 and its siblings, HD800, etc). Not ideal match for low impedance headphones and for planars. That makes OTL amps more of a specialized product, whereas hybrids (like the CTH) are more of an all-arounder...


I perfectly agree with this, but as I'm using an HD 58X (150 Ohms which is still quite high) the main problems for me are the heat, the light, and the lifetime of the power tubes (even though it's not like you have to replace it every month).


----------



## Zachik

ClementNerma said:


> I perfectly agree with this, but as I'm using an HD 58X (150 Ohms which is still quite high) the main problems for me are the heat, the light, and the lifetime of the power tubes (even though it's not like you have to replace it every month).


I may not be the average person to answer that, since I tube-roll often, but according to people that have been into tubes for longer (much longer) than I have - tubes need to be replaced, under heavy usage, every 2-3 years. Under light usage - easily 5-10 years... Just saying 
Anyhow, the point I am trying to make here: 
If OTL amp works for you, the fear of dealing with "consumable" tubes is a non-issue!
(please no examples of amps that use 4 super-rare-and-expensive tubes... )


----------



## ClementNerma

Zachik said:


> I may not be the average person to answer that, since I tube-roll often, but according to people that have been into tubes for longer (much longer) than I have - tubes need to be replaced, under heavy usage, every 2-3 years. Under light usage - easily 5-10 years... Just saying
> Anyhow, the point I am trying to make here:
> If OTL amp works for you, the fear of dealing with "consumable" tubes is a non-issue!
> (please no examples of amps that use 4 super-rare-and-expensive tubes... )


Oh of course, like I said it's not like it's a huge issue, unless you indeed get rare and/or very expensive tubes. But these are mostly found in very high-end amps, which if you can afford them means you can also afford tube replacement 

It's really the heat that bothers me the most, as well as the light. But I must admit OTL amps sound damn good, although they add a whole lot of distorsion in the sound (the reason are nearly "banned" from AudioScienceReview) the sound is really enjoyable and relaxing.


----------



## HTSkywalker

Zachik said:


> I may not be the average person to answer that, since I tube-roll often, but according to people that have been into tubes for longer (much longer) than I have - tubes need to be replaced, under heavy usage, every 2-3 years. Under light usage - easily 5-10 years... Just saying
> Anyhow, the point I am trying to make here:
> If OTL amp works for you, the fear of dealing with "consumable" tubes is a non-issue!
> (please no examples of amps that use 4 super-rare-and-expensive tubes... )


In fact NOS tubes are listed to operate for 10K hours depending on manufacturer while the good old ones may die on you depending how much they were used before or due to corrosion etc.
As you said, the higher the impedance the Warner the sound and the more heat the OTL will radiate.
Planars only shine with SS amps or other few hybrids like the CTH.


----------



## ClementNerma

Btw, is is possible to plug a 12AU7 tube on a 6922 socket? I've seen adapters on the web but they seem to be fully passive, so I don't quite grasp whether there is a compatibility problem or not...


----------



## jonathan c

ClementNerma said:


> Btw, is is possible to plug a 12AU7 tube on a 6922 socket? I've seen adapters on the web but they seem to be fully passive, so I don't quite grasp whether there is a compatibility problem or not...


Not without an adapter. The adapter “rewires” the 12-volt based nine-pin 12AU7 to make it “look” like a 6-volt based nine-pin 6922. Direct insertion of a 12-volt tube in a 6-volt socket would “fry” the circuit.


----------



## ClementNerma

jonathan c said:


> Not without an adapter. The adapter “rewires” the 12-volt based nine-pin 12AU7 to make it “look” like a 6-volt based nine-pin 6922. Direct insertion of a 12-volt tube in a 6-volt socket would “fry” the circuit.


Ok, I'll avoid putting my 12AU7 in my CTH then


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ta-30 is still a hybrid. Similar to the Woo audio Wa6. Transformer coupled. OTC instead of OTL. 
Which is good because it leaves the door open for low impedance cans, and 3w(32ohms) is pretty powerful.


----------



## ClementNerma

Guidostrunk said:


> Ta-30 is still a hybrid. Similar to the Woo audio Wa6. Transformer coupled. OTC instead of OTL.
> Which is good because it leaves the door open for low impedance cans, and 3w(32ohms) is pretty powerful.


Never thought that, I thought that big power tube = OTL. How can I how if an amp is OTC/OTL without looking at the specs sheet?


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's just a rectifier tube. It converts ac to dc voltage. The transformer is performing the output. That's why the ta-30 can run 3w @ 32ohms. 
If the amp was tranformerless it would have output tubes which provide a lot of voltage and less current. 
If that were the case you wouldn't have that type of output power stated and would only be able to use high impedance cans ie... HD800, 650 , ZMF ....etc. 

The 12au7 are input/preamp tubes.


----------



## ClementNerma

Guidostrunk said:


> That's just a rectifier tube. It converts ac to dc voltage. The transformer is performing the output. That's why the ta-30 can run 3w @ 32ohms.
> If the amp was tranformerless it would have output tubes which provide a lot of voltage and less current.
> If that were the case you wouldn't have that type of output power stated and would only be able to use high impedance cans ie... HD800, 650 , ZMF ....etc.
> 
> The 12au7 are input/preamp tubes.


So if I understand there are three types of tubes: input/preamp tubes, power tubes, and output tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

There are variations of OTL amplification. Has to do with coupling the output without a transformer. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_transformerless


----------



## ClementNerma (Mar 10, 2021)

I received my 6922 JJ tube this morning, so here we go! I guess the tube will need a bit of break-in, as it appears that even though most audio hardware doesn't need to, tubes really benefit for a bit of break-in.

For now, there is an undeniable details loss, but the sound is more engaging. It is less analytical and more 'relaxed', even though it's not the level of my Bravo Audio Ocean, which has a lot less details but has a warmer sound (probably due to the usage of a 12AU7 preamp tube). The bass is also -no surprise here- looser than with the EH tube.

Finally, using this tube doesn't give a very 'warm' sound like some hybrid amps are capable of ; it's still more on the neutral side than on the 'very warm' side.

I'll test the tube thouroughly in the next days and give my detailed impressions later on 

On the other hand, when I rolled the EH tube, I saw that one of the pin was really torned, even though it was in the amp for something like 2 months. Can this be a problem for the amp even if the tube fits perfectly?


----------



## HTSkywalker

ClementNerma said:


> I received my 6922 JJ tube this morning, so here we go! I guess the tube will need a bit of break-in, as it appears that even though most audio hardware doesn't need to, tubes really benefit for a bit of break-in.
> 
> For now, there is an undeniable details loss, but the sound is more engaging. It is less analytical and more 'relaxed', even though it's not the level of my Bravo Audio Ocean, which has a lot less details but has a warmer sound (probably due to the usage of a 12AU7 preamp tube). The bass is also -no surprise here- looser than with the EH tube.
> 
> ...


You should never expect a "too warm" sound from an SS output stage amp, The warmest from the stock EH won't go beyond a 10% warmer even with an LPS or a $200 tube.
The JJ is as warm as it gets in a cost effective way and loosing details is on the same opposite slider to warm sound.


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> You should never expect a "too warm" sound from an SS output stage amp, The warmest from the stock EH won't go beyond a 10% warmer even with an LPS or a $200 tube.
> The JJ is as warm as it gets in a cost effective way and loosing details is on the same opposite slider to warm sound.


Well that also depends on the amp itself and the tube. On my Bravo Audio Ocean I got a sound signature I would clearly qualify as "warm".


----------



## HTSkywalker

ClementNerma said:


> Well that also depends on the amp itself and the tube. On my Bravo Audio Ocean I got a sound signature I would clearly qualify as "warm".


Want a real tube sound, go OTL and  I highly recommend the Darkvoice 336SE, You can tube roll all you want there.


----------



## ClementNerma

HTSkywalker said:


> Want a real tube sound, go OTL and  I highly recommend the Darkvoice 336SE, You can tube roll all you want there.


I already thought about buying one but I don't want to bother with tube rolling, plus the heat emitted by the unit is pretty damn high, which is something I really dislike about OTL amps.
If I ever buy one I think it'll be a high-end OTL amp after I upgrade to better headphones, so not tomorrow ^^


----------



## jonathan c

ClementNerma said:


> I already thought about buying one but I don't want to bother with tube rolling, plus the heat emitted by the unit is pretty damn high, which is something I really dislike about OTL amps.
> If I ever buy one I think it'll be a high-end OTL amp after I upgrade to better headphones, so not tomorrow ^^


I have two OTL headphone amplifiers that do not emit concerning levels of heat: Bottlehead Crack, Woo Audio WA3. The tubes obviously get warm / hot in operation, and the power transformer warms in running. The other areas of these two h/p/a are fine in use. The heat issue with the DV seems to be related to the design of the DV (vent holes on the side?).


----------



## ClementNerma

jonathan c said:


> I have two OTL headphone amplifiers that do not emit concerning levels of heat: Bottlehead Crack, Woo Audio WA3. The tubes obviously get warm / hot in operation, and the power transformer warms in running. The other areas of these two h/p/a are fine in use. The heat issue with the DV seems to be related to the design of the DV (vent holes on the side?).


Those are already great mid-level amps, while the DarkVoice is an entry-level one.


----------



## hippotas

Hi guys. My stock tube on CTH does not light up when i turn it on which lead to no output sound. The led on CTH still white and the tube is quite hot as usual. I don't know if my tube is defected or not.


----------



## HTSkywalker

hippotas said:


> Hi guys. My stock tube on CTH does not light up when i turn it on which lead to no output sound. The led on CTH still white and the tube is quite hot as usual. I don't know if my tube is defected or not.


First thing to do is to try another tube, most probably it’s the tube.


----------



## HTSkywalker

jonathan c said:


> I have two OTL headphone amplifiers that do not emit concerning levels of heat: Bottlehead Crack, Woo Audio WA3. The tubes obviously get warm / hot in operation, and the power transformer warms in running. The other areas of these two h/p/a are fine in use. The heat issue with the DV seems to be related to the design of the DV (vent holes on the side?).


How does the BHC compares to the WA3 ? Is it speedballed and did you try a can lower than 150 Ohms with it ?


----------



## collin1103

I have a quick question about this amp. Was checking this amp out and the little dot 1+ I’m wondering if anybody has compared the 2 and which is the better buy for around the same price? I’m currently using an xduoo mt-602 but I feel like it’s lacking in soundstage and some other stuff


----------



## Deleeh

collin1103 said:


> I have a quick question about this amp. Was checking this amp out and the little dot 1+ I’m wondering if anybody has compared the 2 and which is the better buy for around the same price? I’m currently using an xduoo mt-602 but I feel like it’s lacking in soundstage and some other stuff


Hello,
As a Ld1+ user I can say that it is good.
I also find it better than the Vali 2 I had back then.
I can't compare it with the Cth because I never had it.
What I found out about it was that it is currently not available on Massdrop.
And that the power supply unit often fails and it's hard to find a replacement.
And that it should be even more problematic for the European version.

That's why I avoided it.
However, I must also say that the LD1+ also has quality problems.
Although mine was new and had about 300 hours on it, a capacitor and a tube socket were defective.
Either it was just bad luck or a product from an assembly line.

However, it was repairable, I simply replaced the capacitors with higher quality ones and both tube sockets and it runs again.
It wasn't too big a deal if you're a bit handy.
If need be, any electrician who repairs electrical appliances can do it.

In general, I find hybrid amplifiers that are equipped with only one tube somewhat suboptimal.
I have another hybrid amplifier here that also only has one tube, and I just miss something.
It simply lacks headroom, detail resolution, charm and depth.
The hybrid amplifier I'm still testing also seems too far away from the music and a bit wibbly.

I have to say that the Ld1+ does it better, especially after my conversion.

I think a hybrid amplifier that is controlled with such small tubes should have at least two tubes rather than just one in order to get better sound performance.
At least that is my impression of the hybrid amplifiers I have tested.
I never kept one for a long time because it became obvious over time and I wasn't happy with it.

Except for the Ld1+, I fell in love with it at the beginning and love it even more after the conversion.
I would still go for the Ld1+, also for the reason that it can be repaired if something is wrong with it.
And also because it has an adequate tube family that Littel dot has implemented very well.
If necessary, you can still play with op amps if you are still missing something.


----------



## collin1103

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> As a Ld1+ user I can say that it is good.
> I also find it better than the Vali 2 I had back then.
> I can't compare it with the Cth because I never had it.
> ...


Thanks a lot for the reply I really appreciate it. I might just pick one up and try it out and see if I like it. I want to mod it with some new tubes and a new opamp so hopefully it would be even better. But I’m not bad with electronics so if anything broke I’ll probably be able to fix it hopefully.I can solder keyboards and a lot of that stuff


----------



## shady1991

Hi, new CTH user here. 
I am planning to roll Tung sol 12AT7 with this adapter. Can anybody tell me if there is a reason for me to be concerned about frying the circuit? I know it is only recommended to roll 6922 but I am not sure how unsafe it is to not follow the recommendation.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shady1991 said:


> Hi, new CTH user here.
> I am planning to roll Tung sol 12AT7 with this adapter. Can anybody tell me if there is a reason for me to be concerned about frying the circuit? I know it is only recommended to roll 6922 but I am not sure how unsafe it is to not follow the recommendation.


You're fine. I ran 6sn7 in mine when I had it lol. 

I highly recommend this tube!
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## shady1991

Guidostrunk said:


> You're fine. I ran 6sn7 in mine when I had it lol.
> 
> I highly recommend this tube!
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


Thanks a lot. I will definitely give it a try once I get over the honeymoon period with the Tung-Sol tube (it arrives next week). 
Will the difference be significant between different 12at7 tubes? For example between the tube you recommended and Tung-Sol 12at7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shady1991 said:


> Thanks a lot. I will definitely give it a try once I get over the honeymoon period with the Tung-Sol tube (it arrives next week).
> Will the difference be significant between different 12at7 tubes? For example between the tube you recommended and Tung-Sol 12at7.


Absolutely.


----------



## HTSkywalker

shady1991 said:


> Hi, new CTH user here.
> I am planning to roll Tung sol 12AT7 with this adapter. Can anybody tell me if there is a reason for me to be concerned about frying the circuit? I know it is only recommended to roll 6922 but I am not sure how unsafe it is to not follow the recommendation.


Well there is no "significant" upgrade to the stock tube, best if any would be the 6922 Genalex Gold Lion, but you can always try as rolling is tempting but don't expect any magic. You want to tube roll, go Bottlehead or DarkVoice.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HTSkywalker said:


> Well there is no "significant" upgrade to the stock tube, best if any would be the 6922 Genalex Gold Lion, but you can always try as rolling is tempting but don't expect any magic. You want to tube roll, go Bottlehead or DarkVoice.


Have you tried adapters and rolled any other variants? Or in the 6922 family, possibly a Siemens CCa, Brimar cv2492? 

I owned the MCTH for about a year and rolling tubes produces pretty significant changes in sound. Especially when you get to the 12at7, 6c8g , and 6sn7 tube types.


----------



## HTSkywalker

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried adapters and rolled any other variants? Or in the 6922 family, possibly a Siemens CCa, Brimar cv2492?
> 
> I owned the MCTH for about a year and rolling tubes produces pretty significant changes in sound. Especially when you get to the 12at7, 6c8g , and 6sn7 tube types.


In fact I tried the 6922 family as well as the 6SN7 from which I have a large stock. Am not saying there is no difference, am saying it's not as significant as in a DV or Crack.
In fact the CTH is designed around the EH tube while the circuit design is affecting the sound the most. I love how the CTH sounds especially with my Ananda but not "A" platform for tube rolling for me IMHO


----------



## Guidostrunk

HTSkywalker said:


> In fact I tried the 6922 family as well as the 6SN7 from which I have a large stock. Am not saying there is no difference, am saying it's not as significant as in a DV or Crack.
> In fact the CTH is designed around the EH tube while the circuit design is affecting the sound the most. I love how the CTH sounds especially with my Ananda but not "A" platform for tube rolling for me IMHO


Sorry bro I overlooked your post regarding the BHC and DV. Yes those amps will reveal tube changes significantly more due to the OTL design.


----------



## HTSkywalker

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry bro I overlooked your post regarding the BHC and DV. Yes those amps will reveal tube changes significantly more due to the OTL design.


No worries Bro 😎,
The CTH kick asses when it comes to driving planars 👍👍


----------



## jonathan c

HTSkywalker said:


> No worries Bro 😎,
> The CTH kick asses when it comes to driving planars 👍👍


Does it kick more than one arse simultaneously?….tough to do except for an octopus…


----------



## Zachik

jonathan c said:


> Does it kick more than one arse simultaneously?….tough to do except for an octopus…


or a donkey... in which case it is an ass kicking asses


----------



## HTSkywalker

So far 2 asses marked 😜😜
A donkey would do in this case 😂😂😂


----------



## daijobudes

Hi, i'm looking to find a replacement charger for CTH , mine is lost w/o possibility yot be found ( i checked everywhere i could)
TY for the suggestios! I'm located in thr US


----------



## HTSkywalker

daijobudes said:


> Hi, i'm looking to find a replacement charger for CTH , mine is lost w/o possibility yot be found ( i checked everywhere i could)
> TY for the suggestios! I'm located in thr US


Go for a linear PS


----------



## greenkiwi

Isn't a good LPS going to cost a good chunk of the upgrade to a Liquid Platinum?


----------



## HTSkywalker (Apr 5, 2022)

greenkiwi said:


> Isn't a good LPS going to cost a good chunk of the upgrade to a Liquid Platinum?


If you can hide it, you can order a cheap one from Amazon for around $60, just dial the needed voltage and hide it in the back.

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B00O8DJ8QC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2X4HRI2BBTT9N&keywords=linear+power+supply&qid=1649156944&sprefix=linear+power+supply,aps,188&sr=8-5


----------



## jonathan c

HTSkywalker said:


> If you can hide it, you can order a cheap one from Amazon for around $60, just dial the needed voltage and hide it in the back.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B00O8DJ8QC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2X4HRI2BBTT9N&keywords=linear+power+supply&qid=1649156944&sprefix=linear+power+supply,aps,188&sr=8-5


Why hide it? With that proto-industrial look, Dr Meter should take its rightful place at centre stage…!!🤣


----------



## daijobudes

HTSkywalker said:


> Go for a linear PS


How do I use it then?
Also there could be problem with pin (I mean how do I find the exact same size)?


----------



## HTSkywalker

daijobudes said:


> How do I use it then?
> Also there could be problem with pin (I mean how do I find the exact same size)?


It's just a charging plug that you can order and make it custom, make sure to wire the right polarity though.
Dial the voltage output to 28V, the positive (red) line goes to the inside of the charging jack and all you need is 1.25A of power.


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## HTSkywalker

jonathan c said:


> Why hide it? With that proto-industrial look, Dr Meter should take its rightful place at centre stage…!!🤣


Indeed Dr. Meter will blend beautifully but the "wife" consequences may be fatal 😆😆
maybe in this case the below will do the job:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649746980-linear-power-supply-massdrop-cth/images/3310817/


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