# ATC SCM7 or SCM12. Which do I buy?



## eyeteeth

Well it's mostly down to these two models and I honestly am not sure which one to choose. (There are a few other outside longshots , JMlabs-cobalt806/electra906, Quad11L, PMC DB1).
 But the ATC's are the real contenders for my cash.
 The differences between the two are not well described to me. And one is half the price of the other! I don't know if the difference is that the lesser model is meant to be at a closer proximity to the listener, with performance being very similar?

 Any small help will be a huge, huge help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (help me save a $1000.00 if I can!)


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## Wodgy

You really need to find a dealer and listen for yourself to make the decision. Speakers are as much a personal choice (and voiced as differently) as headphones. If you're not planning to get a subwoofer, it's fairly important to choose speakers with a solid amount of bass, but that's hard to judge from spec. sheets. I'd really suggest comparing them in person to make the decision. If you can't do this, consider another dealer or even another speaker brand. You'll end up happier in the end.


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## kuma

I second Wodgy's advice. 

 I dont' know the latter two speakers you've mentioend, but JMLab's and ATC's voicing runs counter to one another. 

 I like JMLab speakers as well but for the different reasons from ATCs. And if *I* have to pick one, I'd go for the ATC. But that's my taste. 

 JMLab speakers are easier to drive than ATC but I found 'em they sound better with more power. Altho, many partner them with tube amplification to help ease their metal dome tweeters. 

 When selecting speakers, figuring in amplifiers is pretty important, too.


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## eyeteeth

Im still stymied in knowing what differences exist between the SCM7 & SCM12. And I am unable to hear before I buy.


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Im still stymied in knowing what differences exist between the SCM7 & SCM12. And I am unable to hear before I buy. * 
 

I can give you my impressions on both speakers. 
 But that won't help you at all. 

 Choose from what you can actually audition. Preferably with your own gear or the amp you intend to use with speakers.


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## eyeteeth

Well I would like those impressions, as I will choose between them.


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## Wodgy

Just curious, what got you so interested in just these two specific speakers?


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Wodgy _
*Just curious, what got you so interested in just these two specific speakers? * 
 

 There are always differing opinions to some degree on any specific speaker, but there's a consistent unanimity of opinion about the ATC's. There's never any wavering of opinion regarding their accuracy, dynamics, etc. This admiration I have began some time ago when I realized by accident that a few of my favorite reviewers of music and audio equipment had ATC speakers. I valued their values before realizing they had the same equipment. And I have a thing about honesty even with poor recordings. Also, listening to speakers with a similar voice to those used in the mastering of my favorite recordings seems logical to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 7's or 12's, 7's or 12's


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## Wodgy

Well, I haven't heard either speaker, but I just went through both spec sheets, and here are my comments (based on my experience with a variety of speakers).

 Both these speakers are voiced very darkly. This means they will be very forgiving of poor recordings. The SCM12 is particularly darkly voiced; its -4dB point is 12kHz (the spec sheet says +/- 2dB at 12kHz, but this should always be interpreted as -4dB relative to the midrange, which is how most people instinctively judge a speaker's sound). Just to convert this into less technical language, this means that at 12kHz the sound pressure levels are already halfway down relative to the midrange (but the human ear doesn't necessarily perceive this as half as loud). This kind of voicing for home speakers is somewhat unusual; it's more typical of nearfield monitors (i.e. speakers meant to be placed about 1.5 feet away from you on a mixing console). They allude to this in the datasheets for both speakers. Personally, I like a dark sound, but even then I don't think either speaker is suitable for use in an average-sized or larger living room. (I'd make an exception for rooms with hardwood floors; they'd be fine in an average-sized room with hardwood floors.) These speakers are really meant for stand-mounting in a small room. If you have an average sized room and your heart is still set on these two speakers, I'd choose the SCM7, simply because its high-frequency performance is better.

 Neither speaker has particularly deep bass. You won't be satisfied using either speaker without a subwoofer, even in small rooms. If you haven't budgeted for a subwoofer, I'd go with the SCM7 and use the extra funds for a subwoofer.

 Also worth mentioning, both speakers are very difficult to drive (84dB and 85dB / watt). You'll need to budget for a very good amplifier. Again, if you haven't done that, I'd go with the SCM7 and allocate a bit of the savings to a good amplifier (but the subwoofer is still more important).

 I like the fact that these are soft-dome speakers (all my favorite speakers have soft-dome tweeters), but even among soft-dome designs these are particularly darkly voiced, and that's something to keep in mind if you listen to rock. (You might find these speakers boring for rock.) For classical and jazz these will probably have a very nice, rich sound; great for chamber music, perhaps average for symphonic.

 Hope that's useful to you.


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## eyeteeth

Thanks Wodgy, your analysis is welcomed. 
 The room will be small for sure. But actually I don't think I've come across a single instance of them being described without the word "revealing" being used at some point. I think they are very individual designs.


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Thanks Wodgy, your analysis is welcomed. 
 The room will be small for sure. But actually I don't think I've come across a single instance of them being described without the word "revealing" being used at some point. I think they are very individual designs. * 
 

Wodgy's anaysis from paper specs is interesting. 

 No doubt you must listen to yourself as I said in another thread these are love it or hate it speakers.

 And, you do need a good ballsy amp to realise their potential. (their specs are extremely conservative on low frequency extension ) I had to remove my sub with my SCM10 after I upgraded the power amp. The cross over management only went down to 50 hz and it muddied up the midrage with a sub. Yet low frequency extension on specs for SCM 10 is 60hz. 

 Interestingly enough, a guy who owns SCM12 told me when he added a sub, cross over needed to be around 30 hz to get a clean bass out of 'em. This is a serious bass output from such a dimunitive drivers and only to be believed when you actually hear the pair driven by capable electronics that can realise their potential. 
 ATC are one of the most capable in reproduction of voices and rock/electronica. Nothing sweet and euphonic about 'em. Think Grado. 

 As Wodgy guessed it, they do need a equally strong amp to shine. 

 You should owe it yourself to listen to other speakers you have listed as well.


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## eyeteeth

Still trying to get a handle on the difference between the SCM7 & SCM12. Is it about proximity?


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Still trying to get a handle on the difference between the SCM7 & SCM12. Is it about proximity? * 
 

They both share the ATC house sound. 
 SCM 7 for being only 7 litre has a bass shortage compared to SCM12 ( 12 litre ). 

 Also, SCM12 uses SL ( super linear ) drivers whereas SCM 7 doesn't therefore, 12s has clearier midrange over 7s. 

 AFAIK, tweeters are the same on the both speakers.


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## eyeteeth

Thats all the difference? Is there a twice the price justification?


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Thats all the difference? * 
 

Using different drivers and cabinet volume make huge impact in how things sound .

 Whether you can justify the 1k cost difference, I am afraid noone can answer the question except you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look. I would go for 12 and I think they are well worth it and can justify the cost difference. At the same time, I havent heard any other standmounts that I like better than SCM7 at 1k. ( this really does not mean they are necessarily better. It just means that what ATC offers fit my sonic priorities better than many out there at the same price range. )

 YOu might think otherwise.


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## eyeteeth

OK.
 Thanks once again Kuma!


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## eyeteeth

Oh, just one more thing.
 Knowing of ATC's power requirements & their design philosophy(an attempt to approximate a live event), I think they want to play somewhat loud.
 How are they with low level listening?
 Or must they always play at generous volumes to really perform?


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## eyeteeth

KUMA!!!!!!
 O WHERE ART THOU?


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Knowing of ATC's power requirements & their design philosophy(an attempt to approximate a live event), I think they want to play somewhat loud.
 How are they with low level listening?
 Or must they always play at generous volumes to really perform? * 
 

For low level listening, SCM12 with SL drivers fair better than SCM7 is my guess. 

 There are only few standmounts that can hold up well at low and high listening level. And I haven't came acrossed one under 2k range. 

 ATC speakers in general shine when a certain volume is maintained. 

 Going back to priority thing, what is your normal listening level? Do you do lots of low level lisetening? What is your room size? Which amp are you intending to use? 
 System dynamic can be enhanced ( and ATC benefits from this greatly ) by what's in front of them. i.e. if rest of your electronics are flat and lifeless, ATC will let you know dutifully. 

 I highly recommend you visit a local hi-fi dealer and listen to few speakers. Who knows you might find something you really like. 

 As I said before, ATC aren't for everyone. But they are, for me, one of the few handful that I would live with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 good luck and have fun!


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kuma _
*For low level listening, SCM12 with SL drivers fair better than SCM7 is my guess. 
 ATC speakers in general shine when a certain volume is maintained. * 
 

No I don't do too much low level listening, I was just curious about performance when I did. Small room & all future electronics will be selected for their ability to make the ATC's sing, with emphasis on resolution & dynamics(Wyetech,Simaudio,etc?).

 Thanks Kuma, your harassment is over,(for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eyeteeth _
*Thanks Kuma, your harassment is over,(for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). * 
 

LOL!


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