# New from Garage1217, the solid-state Project Polaris!



## Asr

I'm subscribed to Garage1217's newsletter where they just announced their latest amp, the solid-state Project Polaris! Also mentioned on their Web site!
  
 http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_013.htm
  


> Polaris is almost here and shipping on the 21st of this month! We spent a little more time giving Polaris the TLC she deserved and added quite a few more features. Polaris is now ready for pre-order in our kits or built amplifier section! Pre-order by Monday the 7th at midnight and receive free shipping! (Domestic orders only - international orders will be billed for shipping at time of shipment)
> 
> Polaris Features...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks like it'll be a great amp, can't wait to try it out eventually.


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## ericr

Interesting. I'm soooo happy with my Project Ember (also from Garage1217) though!


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## richard51

ericr said:


> Interesting. I'm soooo happy with my Project Ember (also from Garage1217) though!


 

 Same thing here, the Ember is the most versatile good sounding amp/preamp in the market.... The dissatisfaction with it is inexistant....So far i am interested  to listen the reviewer about the Polaris ... Because of the price, perhaps  the sound will be attractive too? One thing is for sure, Garage 2117 has good  reputation.... I am curious of the pairing of the Ember or the Polaris with the hifiman he6 or with the he 400i and the he 560.... I  will wait for that....


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## ericr

My HE-560 should be here on Wednesday or Thursday!


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## micmacmo

Happy Project Sunrise II owner here. I was tempted to step up and make a Project Ember amp to drive my HE-6 headphones. But when I saw the Project Polaris, I bit. I took advantage of the pre-order and hope to have it made sometime shortly after it arrives.


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## ericr

Looking forward to your impressions!


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## Amish

I too saw this and was tempted but I just don't see the need as my Ember is fantastic.


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## Soundsgoodtome

ericr said:


> My HE-560 should be here on Wednesday or Thursday!


 

 Ooohh, we gonna have 2 HE560s at the meet on the 26th? I've placed my order for the Polaris and should have it along with the Ember just in time for the meet.


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## vabch22

I placed my pre-order for the Polaris also to go with my Ember. Jeremy is a great guy.


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## ericr

soundsgoodtome said:


> Ooohh, we gonna have 2 HE560s at the meet on the 26th? I've placed my order for the Polaris and should have it along with the Ember just in time for the meet.



Yes, two it seems. Let's make running the HE-560 on the Polaris a priority.


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## Soundsgoodtome

I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Sys to be able to A/B the two as well as to be able to adjust with the passive pre-amp. The 560 will be there for sure. 





ericr said:


> Yes, two it seems. Let's make running the HE-560 on the Polaris a priority.


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## ericr

Sort of hijacking this thread, but I can bring an Asgard 2 to the meet If you're interested.


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## Asr

I'm going to be getting a review unit of this in August. Looking forward to it.


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## daerron

Think the great advantage of the Polaris over the Ember will be its noise resistance. I liked the Sunrise 2, but it was very prone to picking up RF noise and I've seen people complaining about that as well with the Ember.


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## DarrenLays

soundsgoodtome said:


> Ooohh, we gonna have 2 HE560s at the meet on the 26th? I've placed my order for the Polaris and should have it along with the Ember just in time for the meet.


 
  
 How do you like the ember? Someone in the amp-recommendations thread for LCD-2's told me to get in contact with Garage1217 and ask if they could send me one as a demo, since I was in the market for a new amp.


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## Soundsgoodtome

I enjoy it quite a bit with my HE4 and HE560. Jeremy is an amazing person to work with which makes





darrenlays said:


> How do you like the ember? Someone in the amp-recommendations thread for LCD-2's told me to get in contact with Garage1217 and ask if they could send me one as a demo, since I was in the market for a new amp.


 for an excellent customer experience. Definitely audition one but have a nice tube handy when you do. The stock one isn't bad but there's a lot to be gained by getting better tubes. 

Check out the Ember tube rolling thread for some suggestions. I'd recommend Sylvania red and RCA BH7s (only works with the supercharged model).

Edit: massive quote fail from cell phone editing


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## DarrenLays

soundsgoodtome said:


> I enjoy it quite a bit with my HE4 and HE560. Jeremy is an amazing person to work with which makes
> for an excellent customer experience. Definitely audition one but have a nice tube handy when you do. The stock one isn't bad but there's a lot to be gained by getting better tubes.
> 
> Check out the Ember tube rolling thread for some suggestions. I'd recommend Sylvania red and RCA BH7s (only works with the supercharged model).
> ...


 
  
 Could you possibly point me in the right direction to purchase tubes? I'm really new to this sort of thing, that's why I wanted to try all my options before committing to spending hundreds of dollars, haha


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## Soundsgoodtome

EBay is where i bought mine, the RCA ones are quite common. If you get the Sylvania, get the one with red writing. Both are bh7 tubes and require the supercharger. 

G1217 also sells tubes so it could very well be a one stop shop. Just ask Jeremy what tube upgrade he'd recommend for your LCD 2, he might have a good pairing in mind..





darrenlays said:


> Could you possibly point me in the right direction to purchase tubes? I'm really new to this sort of thing, that's why I wanted to try all my options before committing to spending hundreds of dollars, haha


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## DarrenLays

soundsgoodtome said:


> EBay is where i bought mine, the RCA ones are quite common. If you get the Sylvania, get the one with red writing. Both are bh7 tubes and require the supercharger.
> 
> G1217 also sells tubes so it could very well be a one stop shop. Just ask Jeremy what tube upgrade he'd recommend for your LCD 2, he might have a good pairing in mind..


 
  
  
 Thank you so much! I will make sure to do more looking into, and I'll make sure to send him an email later tonight!


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## manizkrishnan

richard51 said:


> Same thing here, the Ember is the most versatile good sounding amp/preamp in the market.... The dissatisfaction with it is inexistant....So far i am interested  to listen the reviewer about the Polaris ... Because of the price, perhaps  the sound will be attractive too? One thing is for sure, Garage 2117 has good  reputation.... I am curious of the pairing of the Ember or the Polaris with the hifiman he6 or with the he 400i and the he 560.... I  will wait for that....


 
 I have HE-560 with Ember. . I am using Mullard CV4024 / 12AT7 tube. They sound great. Excellent sound stage and superb bass. Ember is lot of amp for $325


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## money4me247

you guys think they will be coming out with a new version of the ember anytime soon? i saw that they recently upgraded project horizon and sunrise


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## richard51

manizkrishnan said:


> I have HE-560 with Ember. . I am using Mullard CV4024 / 12AT7 tube. They sound great. Excellent sound stage and superb bass. Ember is lot of amp for $325


 

 thank you for impression.... i am interested in buying he 560....and yes i think for the price this is the best amp....best regards


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## Soundsgoodtome

Look what just arrived! Looking forward to the HE4 and HE560 sessions soon! Going to give it 3 days of run time before any impressions.


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## DarrenLays

soundsgoodtome said:


> Look what just arrived! Looking forward to the HE4 and HE560 sessions soon! Going to give it 3 days of run time before any impressions.


 
  
  
 Wow it's quite small!  Do you have anything else to compare it against?


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## Soundsgoodtome

darrenlays said:


> Wow it's quite small!  Do you have anything else to compare it against?


 

 It's the same footprint as the Ember but much much thinner. From the bottom of the rubber feet to the top of the post bolt I've got about 1.5 inches. I've got the Ember I use at home as well. Maverick A1 at work powers speakers and has a HP out but not really comparing that. I've also got a Yulong D100 and E18 but both are Amp/Dacs.

 Edit: Ok, so it's been running for 3 hours now since I've gotten it. Can't help myself but the Grade SR80 with wood cups sound absolutely stunning out of these. Low gain, low resistance, w/out input attenuation, and A/Bing between High Bandwith and Low Bandwith (which Jeremy explains rolls of the extreme highs to add a tube flavor to the fast SS amp). One word so far will be wow.

 Full chain is Chesky Flac Binaural > Foobar2000 > FiiO E18 (as DAC) > Project Polaris > Grado SR80 with Ebony Wood = WOW


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## DarrenLays

soundsgoodtome said:


> It's the same footprint as the Ember but much much thinner. From the bottom of the rubber feet to the top of the post bolt I've got about 1.5 inches.
> 
> I've got the Ember I use at home as well. Maverick A1 at work powers speakers and has a HP out but not really comparing that. I've also got a Yulong D100 and E18 but both are Amp/Dacs.


 
  
 Looking forward to your thoughts, I was thinking of upgrading from my objective 2 to something else for my LCD-2 w/ Fazor


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## money4me247

@Soundsgoodtome hey do you have a project ember to compare it too??? lookin forward to your impressions


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## Soundsgoodtome

soundsgoodtome said:


> It's the same footprint as the Ember but much much thinner. From the bottom of the rubber feet to the top of the post bolt I've got about 1.5 inches. I've got the Ember I use at home as well. Maverick A1 at work powers speakers and has a HP out but not really comparing that. I've also got a Yulong D100 and E18 but both are Amp/Dacs.
> 
> Edit: Ok, so it's been running for 3 hours now since I've gotten it. Can't help myself but the Grade SR80 with wood cups sound absolutely stunning out of these. Low gain, low resistance, w/out input attenuation, and A/Bing between High Bandwith and Low Bandwith (which Jeremy explains rolls of the extreme highs to add a tube flavor to the fast SS amp). One word so far will be wow.
> 
> Full chain is Chesky Flac Binaural > Foobar2000 > FiiO E18 (as DAC) > Project Polaris > Grado SR80 with Ebony Wood = WOW


 
  


money4me247 said:


> @Soundsgoodtome hey do you have a project ember to compare it too??? lookin forward to your impressions


 

 Yes I do and yes I will after a couple of days of letting the Polaris run non stop. My rigs are still in boxes right now from the meet on Saturday


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## daerron

Thanks for the photos! Gives a much better idea of what it looks like compared to the proto drawings on their site.
  
 But... we.. need... more... impressions!


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## Soundsgoodtome

It's coming, giving it that 3 day burn in so have patience lol! So far I can say I'm very impressed with the amp driving my he4 and 560s which don't take well to low powered amps. The amp is clean clean clean! My ears are coming from the Ember with Sylvania BH7 so there's the tube v solid state in effect but before I go on about the amp and it's features (that's really impressed me) let me get another day or two in. Hang tight!


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> So far I can say I'm very impressed with the amp driving my he4 and 560s which don't take well to low powered amps.


 
  
 Great!  I'm hesitating between the Asgard 2 and the Polaris for my HE-560.  The Asgard 2 might too bright for my tastes so I hope that the 560s are not too bright with the Polaris.


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## Soundsgoodtome

The Ember is better than the Asgard 2 for the 560 according to a local member who owns the 560, ember, asgard 2, and Bifrost as a dac. The Polaris to me is a step brighter (depending on the tube used on the Ember of course), faster, and a bit more linear sounding than the Ember but qualities are on par with one another. One of the features I'm really loving on the Polaris is the bandwidth selection. The 560 will let you know when you've got a bad master or low bit rate file specially on a solid state. I find setting the bandwidth to medium or low takes enough off the treble makes modern/poorly mastered tracks tolerable. Pop in a some well mastered music with the high bandwith setting (Sara K's Hell or High Water for example) and it's headphone bliss. Jeremy says some will not hear the difference but that may be depending on the headphone being used and of course the listeners ear, it's quite apparent on the 560 but less so on the Grado woody. The bandwith setting essentially rolls off above 10khz according to Jeremy but I can hear vocals also getting toned down on the 560 when going from high to low bw.

The effects of letting the amp some run time seem to be making the Polaris more settled, a bit more spacious on soundstage and imaging as well as less edge on the treble (even on high bw). Same as goes with the Ember which I recently got a 2nd unit of brand new. This allowed me to go from a well used Ember to new unit while using the same setup and tube so it's not a matter of brain burn in but sound changes from the amp.


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## Za Warudo

Is the Polaris a significant upgrade from the D100's built in amp for driving the HE560?


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## Soundsgoodtome

The D100 has a fine built-in amp with a similar treble roll-off feature. Gotta thread carefully with terms like significant but I would say yes. Keep in mind I've never tried the D100 and Polaris together which should yield a better a/b and I've only tried the 560 briefly on the D100 but I would say an audiophile significant yes (D100 is my work unit). The D100 can only reach a certain volume before the pot movement no longer makes much spl differences, although we're talking 85db but you're at the edge of the amps capability. Any louder and you're going into the realm of clipping. I'd want more headroom for my classical music and just because headroom to me is lile keeping a gas tank above 1/4 mark, it just feels good. The Polaris is also much more linear whereas the D100 has a slight bass boost, forward mids (although I like the forward mids to the 560), and can make the treble uncomfortable on a lot of tracks with no roll-off setting. The Polaris's bass is true and tight, mids are in place with the bass and highs are just slightly pushed forward although I think this is the 560's trait. The Polaris also more headroom on low gain alone.

Again no true A/B between the D100 but this is off memory and the Polaris is still basically new and in need of some run time.


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## Soundsgoodtome

Here's a height comparison between Ember and Polaris. The Polaris also runs MUCH cooler than the Ember where as I'd be worried on heat when using the taller BH7 tubes under my laptop tray. Pictured is a stock height tube.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> The Ember is better than the Asgard 2 for the 560 according to a local member who owns the 560, ember, asgard 2, and Bifrost as a dac. The Polaris to me is a step brighter (depending on the tube used on the Ember of course), faster, and a bit more linear sounding than the Ember but qualities are on par with one another. One of the features I'm really loving on the Polaris is the bandwidth selection. The 560 will let you know when you've got a bad master or low bit rate file specially on a solid state. I find setting the bandwidth to medium or low takes enough off the treble makes modern/poorly mastered tracks tolerable. Pop in a some well mastered music with the high bandwith setting (Sara K's Hell or High Water for example) and it's headphone bliss. Jeremy says some will not hear the difference but that may be depending on the headphone being used and of course the listeners ear, it's quite apparent on the 560 but less so on the Grado woody. The bandwith setting essentially rolls off above 10khz according to Jeremy but I can hear vocals also getting toned down on the 560 when going from high to low bw.
> 
> The effects of letting the amp some run time seem to be making the Polaris more settled, a bit more spacious on soundstage and imaging as well as less edge on the treble (even on high bw). Same as goes with the Ember which I recently got a 2nd unit of brand new. This allowed me to go from a well used Ember to new unit while using the same setup and tube so it's not a matter of brain burn in but sound changes from the amp.


 
  
 Thanks for your feedback.  So the Polaris is not too bright for the 560s ? Are you using the production pads ?


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## Soundsgoodtome

Th sound has noticeably settled as of last night (approx 40hrs run time) and I can play all my Flac in high bw without the treble being even remotely uncomfortable. I'm using pre-production pads which is known to have a calmer treble but I'll switch to production later tonight.

Soundstage and imaging has also greatly improved and the sound is just hauntingly good. Very spacious


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## Za Warudo

soundsgoodtome said:


> Th sound has noticeably settled as of last night (approx 40hrs run time) and I can play all my Flac in high bw without the treble being even remotely uncomfortable. I'm using pre-production pads which is known to have a calmer treble but I'll switch to production later tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Soundstage and imaging has also greatly improved and the sound is just not hauntingly good.



 


So do you prefer the Ember or Polaris for the HE560? Also I don't think the HE560 needs that much power since I rarely even go 10 o'clock on my D100 and there's plenty of headroom for me.


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## Soundsgoodtome

As of right now I'm preferring the Polaris. That's not to say the Ember is not as good but the flavor of speed and accuracy makes the 560 really show it's ability as a reference planar. Subtle differences but enough to call refreshing. Whereas the Ember has a more musical flavor, the Polaris offers more transparency.

I may take home the D100 to try the he560 in a quiet setting for a better impression. My work setting has a higher noise floor and that's no way to listen. Plus I think I may have a buyer for the D100 so my days with it are numbered.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> I'm using pre-production pads which is known to have a calmer treble but I'll switch to production later tonight.


 
  
 Thanks, can't wait to hear your feedback with the production pads


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## Soundsgoodtome

ytsejamer said:


> Thanks, can't wait to hear your feedback with the production pads


 
 It'll be interesting to see how the bandwith filters effect the production pads as the treble boost for them are around 8-10k IIRC from the graphs. Plus I'll be hitting the +50hr mark sometime tonight with the Polaris so I think the sound should be well settled.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> It'll be interesting to see how the bandwith filters effect the production pads as the treble boost for them are around 8-10k IIRC from the graphs. Plus I'll be hitting the +50hr mark sometime tonight with the Polaris so I think the sound should be well settled.


 
  
 Yes.  I think that the bandwidth filters will be a must with the production pads.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> As of right now I'm preferring the Polaris. That's not to say the Ember is not as good but the flavor of speed and accuracy makes the 560 really show it's ability as a reference planar.


 
  
 I'm very close to pull the trigger on the Polaris


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## vabch22

I got my Polaris in and brought it into the office to test it out along with my Mad Dog 3.2's initially. By no means am I an audiophile, but it sounds great.  I prefer it over my M-Stage for sure which is much darker. I need to play with the bandwidth settings some as this option is new to me, but right now I'm still getting use to the amp. One thing I can say is it is dead quiet with no interference or noise issues I occasionally get on my Ember with certain tubes. Hopefully others with more experience in the audio field will be able to comment, but it looks like Jeremy has another great product for the price. Because of the open design and pretty LED, it gets a lot of traffic at my desk as people walk by.


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## Soundsgoodtome

I tested the production pads and 560. It's a bit bright on a lot of the more modern tracks (aka mediocre mastering). The more audiophile tracks found on my Chesky Albums as well as classicals and a few rock CDs I have sounded very good. However, I'm just not into the Focus pads as I am with the Focus-A and it's more flatter/subdued treble. I feel the 8-10k boost on the production pads takes away form the imaging and depth as well as soundstage. Something to do with the treble being more in your face than the older pads... but this belongs on the 560 thread.

The production pads and Polaris will be unforgiving on any bad masters and will be borderline for mediocre, regardless of where the bandwith switch it's at. The bandwith effects subtleties in the vocal treble region and really just changes the sizzle and air of the headphone. Throw on Chesky's new demo CD (currently on the frontpage again) and the Polaris/560 shines. Classical albums? Fantastic. Now throw on something new with less dynamic range with a hotter master and you better like treble.. For a more flexible rig I would recommend the Ember over the Polaris with the production pads. If you can be choosy on your source files (high bitrate FLAC or similar) and music to the better mastering, the production and Polaris is a good match. Although I still recommend all 560 owners to pick up a Focus-A pads while they're still available. 

*8/2 edit*
HE560 + Focus (production) + Polaris = *True to sound, boost at 8-10k, clean*
HE560 + Focus-A (pre production) + Polaris = AMAZING *added warmth of the pad while keeping treble extension, extended depth and soundstage, versatile with lossy music and lesser masters, my preference! *

My chain goes:
(FLAC > Foobar2k >) Dell XPS Laptop > V/Link 192 Coax transport > Beresford Bushmaster MK2 > Project Polaris > HE560


*8/2 edit:* Spent more time with the he560 with production pads and Polaris. My initial impression might've been a little harsh on the combo, call it brain burn in but the treble isn't as hot as I initially thought. Maybe the swapping of pads made the treble jump at first but I'm listening to a few modern mastered albums and it sounds good even in high bw. The amp delivers the music so cleanly and I'm still all smiles on the SS sound with the 560s speed. I've never heard bass texture and detail like this before, not even the he4 with more impact has this kind of detail.


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## Soundsgoodtome

Edited my impression above. I'll be letting another local member to try this for a week or so, maybe he can compare it directly to his Asgard 2 which is within similar price range.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> *8/2 edit:* Spent more time with the he560 with production pads and Polaris. My initial impression might've been a little harsh on the combo, call it brain burn in but the treble isn't as hot as I initially thought. Maybe the swapping of pads made the treble jump at first but I'm listening to a few modern mastered albums and it sounds good even in high bw. The amp delivers the music so cleanly and I'm still all smiles on the SS sound with the 560s speed. I've never heard bass texture and detail like this before, not even the he4 with more impact has this kind of detail.


 
  
 Interesting, thanks for your feedback!


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## Soundsgoodtome

I've been asked by a couple of members to a/b the ember and Polaris on the 560. That'll be next on another thread.


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## Amish

For those interested I will be at the LA show this weekend and I will have a table setup with a Ember and Polaris.
  
 If you make it to the show then by all means swing by my table and play with both amps. I'll also have around 10-11 tubes to listen to depending on your preferences.
  
 I can say that both these amps work very well and sound great. Depending on the tube the Ember can sound better or worse but after testing A/B the past week I have come to the conclusion that the Ember is the better kit. IMO of course.
  
 I'll have a CD player and laptop so bring a CD or bring files..


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> I've been asked by a couple of members to a/b the ember and Polaris on the 560. That'll be next on another thread.




Great


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## Soundsgoodtome

I've got the rig set up at work and now the wait time for a quiet noise floor. Will be doing some switching between the Ember and Polaris via Schiit Sys (full volume as I'm using it in reverse 2 outs and 1 in). Running off the Yulong D100 as a DAC with a V/Link 192 transport using all CD FLAC and a few Hi-Rez files.


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## YtseJamer

Can't wait to hear your comments!
  
 I'm still hesitating in between the Ember, the Polaris and the Lyr 2 for my HE-560.


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## Amish

If you can't listen to them before buying then get the Ember. It is one awesome amp and considering the amount of tubes you can roll it's just fun. The right tube and it goes from great to awesome.
  
 My two fav tube models for this amp are the 12AT7 and 12AX7.


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## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> I've got the rig set up at work and now the wait time for a quiet noise floor. Will be doing some switching between the Ember and Polaris via Schiit Sys (full volume as I'm using it in reverse 2 outs and 1 in). Running off the Yulong D100 as a DAC with a V/Link 192 transport using all CD FLAC and a few Hi-Rez files.


 
  
 So who won that battle ?


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## Soundsgoodtome

Apologize for the delay in write-up.  The difference between the two really relies on the tube being used and you can definitely tell that the design of both amps would make them siblings and less like cousins (as I’d presume between one of the two amps and an earlier model). With both being flagships of Garage 1217 and being excellent for the money being clean, powerful, and flexible with different headphones and their sensitivities. My most transparent tube without adding much sound coloration to the frequency is the Tungsram so comparing was done with that with the incoming caps bypassed.

 Clearly both had enough power to drive the 50ohm HE560 (at 2W)! Low gain on the Polaris, the 560 would be at 70-80db around 11 o’clock for newer masters  and 12-1 o’clock for classicals and lower output mastering. Whereas the Ember seem to be in medium gain, even if it was the jumpers were set to low, in comparison to volume pot position in comparison to the Polaris. This could be an effect of the tube and gain properties.. basically subtracting 1 hour on the volume pot to equal the Polaris in sound level. 

Although not used in the comparison, the Polaris has a nice feature similar to a pre-amp in that it can attenuate the incoming line-in to lower the volume even further for those sensitive HPs and IEMS and to allow a bit more volume travel. I would presume this to change the sound somewhat but I honestly couldn’t hear the difference but just an overall attenuation of all frequencies, still very clean sound out at a lower volume.

Both amps has excellent soundstage, the Polaris has equivalent width as the Ember being wide with an out-of-the-head experience on the 560s. The ember however adds a bit of effect to this soundstage and imaging via decay/distortion. When the back end of the sound extends, there’s an effect that mimics a different room where the Polaris would be like sitting in a dampened room and the Ember would be sitting in a hardwood floor and the sound bounces creating an effect of decay. Nothing drastic but the extra touch can be perceived as added soundstage and depth. Also some tubes (like my Sylvania BH7) has even wider soundstage than the Tungsram. Not so much depth but more so on width, this is one advantage on the Ember where you can change characteristics of the sound and frequency response.

 Separation and clarity on both amps are outstanding, the 560s really shine with both amps. Following instruments is a breeze, pick an instrument and hear all the detail/nuisance. The Polaris does this a little better than the Ember in part because of it’s speed and tightness. The Polari’s speed is a definite step above the Ember but depending on taste, this can be taken as a good or bad thing (tube vs ss). This can be heard more dramatically on bass (want speed and detailed bass? get the 560). The Polaris will allow you to hear every detail and extend deep in the 20-30hz area while giving good and tight impact. The Ember on the other hand has less control in this section and also has more bloom/decay in the bass. Depending on the headphone, in this case the 560, one can perceive the Polaris leaning more towards the analytical side but still keeping musicality. Whereas the Polaris is accurate and tight, the Ember adds that musicality of a nice decay and sustain.

More to come:


 If you guys want to get interactive and ask questions, I'll reserve the next slot.


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## Soundsgoodtome

reserve


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## J&J

Just rec'd my built project Polaris today. Just some brief impressions. I currently have for comparison a Schiit Valhalla, Project Horizon +SC and Goldpoint ss amp. All really good amps . Headphones available HE 400, Senn 600, AKG Tiesto167, Roland RH A30 again all really good phones
 The Polaris is very small, beautiful, well constructed, and surprisingly powerful, easily drives the HE 400 planars.
 It shares the house sound that being very resolving, tons of detail and speed especially bass No mushy bass here.
 Very good 3 dimensional presentation (sound stage).
 Treble a bit bright but nice sparkle can adjust bandwidth and output impedance that might tame treble
 Overall an easy to recommend amp for a range of headphones with SQ/$ hard to beat.  Nice synergy with the AKG Tiesto


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## HOWIE13

Hi J&J
 I was really interested in your results with your present set up as I also use the HE400  and have an Horizon 3+SC. I have been wondering how this combination compares with the HE400/Polaris in terms of sound-stage, imaging, instrument separation, pace, slam, headroom.
 I mainly listen to Classical and like it loud!
 Do you think I will gain anything with a Polaris?


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## stjj89

Any thoughts on how the Polaris and/or Ember would go with a HE-500?


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## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> Hi J&J
> I was really interested in your results with your present set up as I also use the HE400  and have an Horizon 3+SC. I have been wondering how this combination compares with the HE400/Polaris in terms of sound-stage, imaging, instrument separation, pace, slam, headroom.
> I mainly listen to Classical and like it loud!
> Do you think I will gain anything with a Polaris?


 

 I have  a couple of Sunrise III amps which I really like. I did add heat sink extensions to try to cool off the regulator an output devices some. It runs hot. The Polaris is supposed to run at room temperature for the most part. It also has about double the output of the Sunrise and close to  three times that of the Horizon. If you have any hard to drives phones, that could be big.
 I have always liked the FET sound  going back to vintage gear that I have owned. The Polaris is an FET design. It is also more portable and should be more rugged without a tube to worry about.
  
 I can't yet comment on the sound. I have not got mine yet. Jeremy said it was finished on 8/14. I was hoping to get it today, but that didn't happen. I can comment more once it is here. Hopefully Monday.


----------



## Asr

Got my review-unit Polaris the other day. Looks awesome in person and the sound so far has been pretty good. Full review to come later....


----------



## HOWIE13

Thanks.Mandrake 50. 
 I suppose, also, there isn't the warm up time you have to wait before a tube sounds at it's best. I have some ECC88 Mullards that improve over 2 hours, though most of my vintage tubes sound at pretty much their peak after about 30 mins. Do SS Amps like the Polaris sound at their best very soon after switching on or is warm up time still needed?


----------



## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> Thanks.Mandrake 50.
> I suppose, also, there isn't the warm up time you have to wait before a tube sounds at it's best. I have some ECC88 Mullards that improve over 2 hours, though most of my vintage tubes sound at pretty much their peak after about 30 mins. Do SS Amps like the Polaris sound at their best very soon after switching on or is warm up time still needed?


 

 Jeremy said the Polaris runs very cool. I would think that it should stabilize pretty quickly. To be honest, with Solid State gear I haven't noticed much change over time with warm up.
 I just got the tracking info for mine. It should be here tomorrow. I will find out more once I get time to listen to it.


----------



## HOWIE13

Very exciting. I am so envious.


----------



## Amish

soundsgoodtome said:


> The Polaris will allow you to hear every detail and extend deep in the 20-30hz area while giving good and tight impact. The Ember on the other hand has less control in this section and also has more bloom/decay in the bass.


 
  
 I'd like to comment on the above statement. Have you tried any other tubes? I have found that some tubes can actually tighten up the bass of the ember. I'm wondering what tubes you have to test with and what you think of those?
  
 I have not experienced any less control, bloom or decay with the Ember compared to the Polaris but I think it comes down to the tube. I've found that vintage bugle boys (12ax7 and 6dj8) really improve the bass and tighten things up compared to some of my other tubes and the 12at7 (telefunken being my fav) really performs well with the entire FR but adds a broader sound stage. Of the several Telefunkens I own one of them provides and almost 3d effect.
  
 I will add that both these amps are really well done. Depending on the tube they can sound quite alike. The stock 12au7 J&J tube that arrived with my Ember is a good example. Side by side with the Polaris they both sound almost identical. But swap in a good 12at7 or 12ax7 and the Ember pulls ahead. More musical and lush. I can easily lose myself in my music then.
  
 Anyways...I'm rambling.


----------



## daerron

amish said:


> I'd like to comment on the above statement. Have you tried any other tubes? I have found that some tubes can actually tighten up the bass of the ember. I'm wondering what tubes you have to test with and what you think of those?
> 
> I have not experienced any less control, bloom or decay with the Ember compared to the Polaris but I think it comes down to the tube. I've found that vintage bugle boys (12ax7 and 6dj8) really improve the bass and tighten things up compared to some of my other tubes and the 12at7 (telefunken being my fav) really performs well with the entire FR but adds a broader sound stage. Of the several Telefunkens I own one of them provides and almost 3d effect.
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






>


 
  


  
 I think I also enjoyed the Telefunken 12AT7 on the Sunrise 2. Very clear and almost solid state sounding. How do these two amps compare regarding quietness? Whilst I loved the musicality of the Sunrise 2 the EMI interference and noise got to me sometimes. Its one reason why I have the Polaris on top of my list so far. Have you played with the bandwidth settings on Polaris?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I also have a Sylvania red and RCA 1970s BH7 purchased NOS (mine was the supercharged Ember). The Sylvania did in fact add a greater soundstage and imaging making it better in that dept but none of my tube were able to place bass detail on my HE560s like the solid state. The 560s probably have the tightest and fastest bass on any headphone I've tried so far (ortho bass with detail is an experience to be had, tickles the right stuff for me).. but the tubes, at least mine, lessens details in the bass region. Not drastically of course but the subtleties are audible. To put into comparison, details/speed/tightness in the bass of the 560s are some of the cleanest I've heard to date but now I'm a broken record.


amish said:


> I'd like to comment on the above statement. Have you tried any other tubes? I have found that some tubes can actually tighten up the bass of the ember. I'm wondering what tubes you have to test with and what you think of those?
> 
> I have not experienced any less control, bloom or decay with the Ember compared to the Polaris but I think it comes down to the tube. I've found that vintage bugle boys (12ax7 and 6dj8) really improve the bass and tighten things up compared to some of my other tubes and the 12at7 (telefunken being my fav) really performs well with the entire FR but adds a broader sound stage. Of the several Telefunkens I own one of them provides and almost 3d effect.
> 
> ...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

The Polaris has a black background. The Ember with the right tube was quiet too except for the stock tube that was an unknown brand, that went in the bin.





daerron said:


> I think I also enjoyed the Telefunken 12AT7 on the Sunrise 2. Very clear and almost solid state sounding. How do these two amps compare regarding quietness? Whilst I loved the musicality of the Sunrise 2 the EMI interference and noise got to me sometimes. Its one reason why I have the Polaris on top of my list so far. Have you played with the bandwidth settings on Polaris?






daerron said:


> I think I also enjoyed the Telefunken 12AT7 on the Sunrise 2. Very clear and almost solid state sounding. How do these two amps compare regarding quietness? Whilst I loved the musicality of the Sunrise 2 the EMI interference and noise got to me sometimes. Its one reason why I have the Polaris on top of my list so far. Have you played with the bandwidth settings on Polaris?


----------



## Amish

daerron said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both these amps have a black back ground. BUT the Ember can suffer from EMI depending on the tube. I've found that some 12AX tubes can suffer EMI but most of my tubes do not. The Polaris has never been affected by EMI in my experience.
  
 I have played around with the bandwidth adjustment but only once. This really helps with sensitive in ears but I haven't really tested that out. I will later though if you want. Adjusting the bandwidth can help with bright headphones (and does with my Grado 325's) It basically just lowers the db levels in the upper FR range.


----------



## daerron

This is getting to be quite a tough decision, love the versatility of tube rolling vs the single solid state sound without interference... Think I'll probably pick up the Polaris kit and get ready to start soldering!


----------



## Amish

That sounds like a plan. I totally prefer music with the Ember but the Polaris is damn nice too.
  
 I will say that I rarely have to deal with EMI. The only time it happens is if I put my cell phone next to the amp and I get a text. lol
 It doesn't pickup any other EMI so far. Just my cell phone. That is solved by moving the cell phone though. And like I already stated, it completely depends on the tube. Some tubes are more sensitive to EMI than others.
  
 If you end up modding the Polaris I will be interested in seeing and reading what you do and how it works.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> Apologize for the delay in write-up.  The difference between the two really relies on the tube being used and you can definitely tell that the design of both amps would make them siblings and less like cousins (as I’d presume between one of the two amps and an earlier model). With both being flagships of Garage 1217 and being excellent for the money being clean, powerful, and flexible with different headphones and their sensitivities. My most transparent tube without adding much sound coloration to the frequency is the Tungsram so comparing was done with that with the incoming caps bypassed.
> 
> Clearly both had enough power to drive the 50ohm HE560 (at 2W)! Low gain on the Polaris, the 560 would be at 70-80db around 11 o’clock for newer masters  and 12-1 o’clock for classicals and lower output mastering. Whereas the Ember seem to be in medium gain, even if it was the jumpers were set to low, in comparison to volume pot position in comparison to the Polaris. This could be an effect of the tube and gain properties.. basically subtracting 1 hour on the volume pot to equal the Polaris in sound level.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## GreenMachine

I will say I'm in the same boat as daerron with tube rolling vs SS. I'm stuck between the Sunrise III or the Polaris though it seems like I'm leaning more towards the Polaris. My setup is my on-board DAC ( I couldn't tell the difference from it and a friends Fiio E10 other than the E10 was able to crank out more power) and HE400 headphones. Would you all think the Polaris will give the more superior and future proof setup? Jeremy said either would be great so of course I'm stuck between them. Tubes for rolling, or SS for the all out power and clarity? Also how do you all deal with dust from it being open? A puff of compressed air or just a lint-free rag?


----------



## richard51

greenmachine said:


> I will say I'm in the same boat as daerron with tube rolling vs SS. I'm stuck between the Sunrise III or the Polaris though it seems like I'm leaning more towards the Polaris. My setup is my on-board DAC ( I couldn't tell the difference from it and a friends Fiio E10 other than the E10 was able to crank out more power) and HE400 headphones. Would you all think the Polaris will give the more superior and future proof setup? Jeremy said either would be great so of course I'm stuck between them. Tubes for rolling, or SS for the all out power and clarity? Also how do you all deal with dust from it being open? A puff of compressed air or just a lint-free rag?


 

 A puff or two of compressed air is perfect..... I have the ember and i am totally satisfied.... With the tubes you have a more flexible possibilities to adapt the amp to multiple headphones and to your ears and the pleasure to see the glowing tubes transform the machine in a living beast....Best regards


----------



## Amish

greenmachine said:


> I will say I'm in the same boat as daerron with tube rolling vs SS. I'm stuck between the Sunrise III or the Polaris though it seems like I'm leaning more towards the Polaris. My setup is my on-board DAC ( I couldn't tell the difference from it and a friends Fiio E10 other than the E10 was able to crank out more power) and HE400 headphones. Would you all think the Polaris will give the more superior and future proof setup? Jeremy said either would be great so of course I'm stuck between them. Tubes for rolling, or SS for the all out power and clarity? Also how do you all deal with dust from it being open? A puff of compressed air or just a lint-free rag?


 
  
  
 I'm going to always vote for the Ember or in your case the Sunrise III because I prefer tubes. The Ember has all the clarity that the Polaris has. I've not used the Sunrise III so I can't comment on how it performs and sounds but knowing what I know I would buy it over the Polaris if only because I really love rolling tubes. The Polaris is the more powerful unit between it and the Sunrise III but looking at the specs and output chart the Sunrise III is no slouch.
  
 If I were you I'd consider the Ember or Polaris instead. And if cost is a factor then the Polaris might be the best option. It's amazingly priced for such an outstanding little amp.
  
 I use some compressed air and a camera lens puff brush to clean. I also keep it covered when not in use.
  
 As for DACs, well each to their own but I can tell the difference between the dedicated DAC's I've used. I will say that it can make a difference in your music for sure.


----------



## GreenMachine

Thanks for the answers!

 The ability to roll tubes is one of the factors making it hard (and how they bring something special to an amp with their glow) but since money is an issue atm and tube rolling can be pricey it seems the Polaris will be the best choice

 And well the DAC might come along after the amp. Really depends on the sound coming out from the comp straight to the amp. If I notice an improvement with my friends DAC feeding into the amp, then I'll definitely look into getting one! Probably another good reason to go with the Polaris. Keep it cheaper so I'll have funds for the DAC.


----------



## Amish

Sounds like a plan Green. How do you plan to output the sound from the pc? You have to use analogue. Are you going to use the 3.5mm out to dual RCA to amp?
  
 Unless your comp has a good sound card I wouldn't expect awesomeness. If your comp has any digital outs that would be best but you'll need a DAC at that point.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## GreenMachine

3.5 to dual RCA is exactly what I'll be doing. Sadly I'm running a laptop so there are no digital outputs, only USB (Has a 3.0 if that is really of any help when it comes to sound quality. Still new to all of this) and the headphone jack.

 Being a laptop (Asus 53SX gaming laptop) it won't have the sound card  but I will say I haven't noticed any quality issue with my headphones plugged directly into the jack other then clipping now and then due to having to crank it out a max volume. The sound coming out is great, though bass seems a bit hidden (no real depth, volume, or even presence). So once getting my amp, I'll do the test with my friends DAC and go from there!

 Thanks!


----------



## HOWIE13

I guess a good tube amp will always be preferred by those who like tube amps over a similar quality SS amp because of the versatility of tube rolling.
 The real test for the Polaris in the market place will be how it compares to other SS amps such as those from Schiit, Woo, MF, Teac, Cambridge Audio, Graham Slee, Violectric, Lehmann etc etc. It's a packed field, but cost wise the Polaris is very competitive.


----------



## Amish

greenmachine said:


> 3.5 to dual RCA is exactly what I'll be doing. Sadly I'm running a laptop so there are no digital outputs, only USB (Has a 3.0 if that is really of any help when it comes to sound quality. Still new to all of this) and the headphone jack.
> 
> Being a laptop (Asus 53SX gaming laptop) it won't have the sound card  but I will say I haven't noticed any quality issue with my headphones plugged directly into the jack other then clipping now and then due to having to crank it out a max volume. The sound coming out is great, though bass seems a bit hidden (no real depth, volume, or even presence). So once getting my amp, I'll do the test with my friends DAC and go from there!
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I use a laptop as well with my headphone stack and what i did to get around the 3.5mm jack (which didn't sound that good at all) was I used an old Creative external sound card via USB that I had laying around. I actually had two of them and when I discovered how well it worked via optical and digital coaxial I sold my second one on ebay for $65
  
 I would go on ebay, find a used external sound card for cheap and then pickup a small dac. would make a big difference I think. If money permits of course.


----------



## Amish

howie13 said:


> I guess a good tube amp will always be preferred by those who like tube amps over a similar quality SS amp because of the versatility of tube rolling.
> The real test for the Polaris in the market place will be how it compares to other SS amps such as those from Schiit, Woo, MF, Teac, Cambridge Audio, Graham Slee, Violectric, Lehmann etc etc. It's a packed field, but cost wise the Polaris is very competitive.


 

 For the money i don't think you can do any better than the Polaris. For me it would come down to style at this point. Do you like the open look of the Polaris or do you like the fully enclosed unit? Other than that the Polaris performs really well and it has a bunch of features that you may not find in any other ss amp at that price point.


----------



## mandrake50

I have had the Polaris for about a week now. I also own the Sunrise III (two of them). I really like the Polaris, though I have not compared it to any of the units listed above. I use the second Sunrise III at work out of my laptop. I bought a JDS Labs ODAC and run that from my USB port on the laptop and out of the ODAC through a mini (3.5 mm) plug to dual RCA cable) to the amp of choice. I brought it home this weekend and am driving the Polaris with it. I like it. This could be another option for GreenMachine as his budget allows. It is relatively inexpensive. The form factor is pretty small. Once you figure out how to run your cables, it can be set right on top of the Polaris to minimize the desk space required.


----------



## drews

greenmachine said:


> 3.5 to dual RCA is exactly what I'll be doing. Sadly I'm running a laptop so there are no digital outputs, only USB (Has a 3.0 if that is really of any help when it comes to sound quality. Still new to all of this) and the headphone jack.


 
  
 Are you sure it has no digital outputs?  I have a G73 and is has toslink digital out (like Macbooks) although I don't think it was advertised to support it...
  
 Drew


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

With some ingenuity you could buy a bare odac board (does JDS sell em like that?) and use one or two of the four lexan screw downs to mount it above the Polaris. The screw diameters are the same I think..


----------



## Drrizzt

I will be next to own the Polaris, as my Sunrise is defective (A lot of sound distortion past 12' on the volume knob, bypassing the capacitors makes the problem much much worse. 
  
 As i can't wait for the sunrise to be fixed without any possibility to listen to my He-500 i will order the Polaris.
  
 I hope the upgrade will be worth it!


----------



## HOWIE13

@Amish
 I like the open design of the Polaris and the fact it has a good strong LED, whose colour can be changed, may make me think it's a tube amp


----------



## mandrake50

I had them install a blue LED...
 I may well look for something that is yellow/orange/red mix  for just that reason.
 If I am not swapping tubes, not a bad idea to get that nice glow out of it


----------



## mandrake50

drews said:


> Are you sure it has no digital outputs?  I have a G73 and is has toslink digital out (like Macbooks) although I don't think it was advertised to support it...
> 
> Drew


 

 Might be easier to get a USB DAC.. mostly cheaper from what I have seen, and USB bus powered. Fewer cables and potentially higher bitrates... if one cares about that.


----------



## drews

mandrake50 said:


> Might be easier to get a USB DAC.. mostly cheaper from what I have seen, and USB bus powered. Fewer cables and potentially higher bitrates... if one cares about that.




True, but it's another option he might have and if he has a receiver etc available he may not need to spend any more cash beyond a 3.5mm to Toslink cable...

Drew


----------



## GreenMachine

@HOWIE13 I'm actually not going to be looking any further at all for amps! Polaris has been ordered so now just the wait!

@Amish I have considered that but it will be a bit pricier than I would like. Now I will say this to your question, the open look of all the Garage1217 amps is what drew me there! So intriguing to look at. Can't get over it!

@drews Yeah sadly it doesn't have a digital output anywhere  I think it might be due to the smaller overall size that they just ran out of room, considering how much room the massive fans take up!

@Soundsgoodtome JDS does indeed sell just the boards! Biggest issue I see with the mounting above the Polaris is it might cover up a few of the adjustment switches though I'm sure once I have the sound down to the way I like it, I probably would never need to touch those switches again.

 Thanks, everyone!


----------



## drews

greenmachine said:


> @drews Yeah sadly it doesn't have a digital output anywhere  I think it might be due to the smaller overall size that they just ran out of room, considering how much room the massive fans take up!
> 
> Thanks, everyone!


 
  
 The digital output on my Asus G73 (and my Macbook Pros) is also the headphone output - if you plug in an optical cable you get digital output...
  
 headphone->Toslink cable:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-8M-TosLink-Male-to-3-5mm-Male-Digital-Optical-Stereo-Audio-Adapter-Cable-Lead-/360884527968?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item540664e360


----------



## GreenMachine

drews said:


> The digital output on my Asus G73 (and my Macbook Pros) is also the headphone output - if you plug in an optical cable you get digital output...
> 
> headphone->Toslink cable:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-8M-TosLink-Male-to-3-5mm-Male-Digital-Optical-Stereo-Audio-Adapter-Cable-Lead-/360884527968?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item540664e360


 

 Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm a total novice at this stuff (and sorry for the thread jack), but wouldn't the quality still be the same as if I plugged headphones straight into the jack? Or is it totally changed because the output being digital will circumvent the internal DAC and just be 1's and 0's that the external DAC will convert?


----------



## HOWIE13

mandrake50 said:


> I had them install a blue LED...
> I may well look for something that is yellow/orange/red mix  for just that reason.
> If I am not swapping tubes, not a bad idea to get that nice glow out of it


 
 Does the LED light simply pull out of a socket or is it soldered into place? I was thinking of buying a set of different coloured bulbs from Jeremy and swapping them around according to my mood!


----------



## drews

greenmachine said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm a total novice at this stuff (and sorry for the thread jack), but wouldn't the quality still be the same as if I plugged headphones straight into the jack? Or is it totally changed because the output being digital will circumvent the internal DAC and just be 1's and 0's that the external DAC will convert?


 
 The latter.  You would circumvent the internal DAC and amp (which can be low quality and noisy on many laptops).


----------



## Amish

howie13 said:


> @Amish
> I like the open design of the Polaris and the fact it has a good strong LED, whose colour can be changed, may make me think it's a tube amp


 
  
  
  


greenmachine said:


> @HOWIE13 I'm actually not going to be looking any further at all for amps! Polaris has been ordered so now just the wait!
> 
> @Amish I have considered that but it will be a bit pricier than I would like. Now I will say this to your question, the open look of all the Garage1217 amps is what drew me there! So intriguing to look at. Can't get over it!


 
  
  
 I too love the open design. It is what attracted me to Garage1217 amps in the first place. I had mine built by them and I have to say they do an impeccable job!
  
 I chose a purple light for my Polaris because it matches all my Analysis Plus oval one cables. lol My Ember has an adjustable light and it too is set to purple.
  
 At one point I was using orange which adds to the glow of the tube...looks old school but this thread is not about the Ember....
  
 You are going to love this amp GreenMachine. Good choice! Make sure to play with all the adjustable settings. They all make a difference in output.
  
  
  
 The only thing that an enclosed case has over this open design of Garage1217 amps is keeping them clean. Dust gets in there and you have to clean it every once in awhile. Where as an enclosed case is so much easier to clean.
  
 I do keep mine covered though when not in use which helps with dust.


----------



## Amish

howie13 said:


> Does the LED light simply pull out of a socket or is it soldered into place? I was thinking of buying a set of different coloured bulbs from Jeremy and swapping them around according to my mood!


 
  
  
 The light can be changed easily without soldering.


----------



## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> Does the LED light simply pull out of a socket or is it soldered into place? I was thinking of buying a set of different coloured bulbs from Jeremy and swapping them around according to my mood!


 

 I haven't pulled to cover yet, but the manual indicates that the LED is easily changed. I think it has a socket.


----------



## mandrake50

greenmachine said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm a total novice at this stuff (and sorry for the thread jack), but wouldn't the quality still be the same as if I plugged headphones straight into the jack? Or is it totally changed because the output being digital will circumvent the internal DAC and just be 1's and 0's that the external DAC will convert?


 

 Yes you replace the internal DAC with the USB DAC. You route the bits directly to the USB DAC, You will also avoid going through the headphone amp on the laptop. They call this "double amping ". It is usually considered to be something to avoid if possible. If you get a DAC with a true line out, that will be a better match for the input on the Polaris as well.


----------



## HOWIE13

@Amish and Mandrake 50.
 Thanks for clarifying that the LED's are readily changeable. Garage seem to think of everything.


----------



## GreenMachine

Thanks again everyone! Really helped me clear up some questions I had. For now I'm just going to be running the Polaris straight out of the headphone jack (already have a 3.5-RCA cable) and then down the road when money permits, I'll snag a DAC.

@Amish I'll be rocking the Purple/UV as well! Though I'm tempted to order all the colors to change them around whenever I get bored of one! Can't wait for this thing to come in now! Anxious as can be

 Edit:
 I will say, one just can't beat the Purple


----------



## Amish

Yes purple does indeed rock!


----------



## ericr

greenmachine said:


> ... and then down the road when money permits, I'll snag a DAC.




Maybe the updated Dragonfly or a HRT Microstreamer.


----------



## Mike In Bama

I'm leaning all over the Polaris kit and considering pairing it with the Hifiman HE-400i. On paper, it seems like a good combination but I would appreciate any thoughts. 

The other amp that has held my attention is the Graham Slee Novo. I had considered the Schitt Asgard2, but have come to believe it may be slightly harsh for my taste.


----------



## mandrake50

I have been using the Demo HE-4001 for several days with the Polaris driven through my ODAC or Meridian Explorer. I like either combination very well. 
I have been listening on and off while I am running music through the 400i. I have not taken time to completely analyze things yet, but I fired them up using the Polaris and my first reaction was.... WOW. I have cranked the thing for short periods and notice no distortion at what I consider to be ear damaging levels. The amp comfortably drives the 400i at what I consider my max comfort SPL for long term listening at about 10 O'clock on the pot. 

I have several other Amps and DACs to try, but so far I haven't been motivated by anything lacking to do that. The HE-400i with the Polaris just makes me enjoy listening to music. I am sensitive to "harsh".. nothing in this setup has put me off in that regard. As of now, I am thinking that you can't do much better at the price point than the Polaris (including any of the Shiit gear that I have heard).

I have no experience with the Graham Slee Novo.

I am coming from HD 600, HD650, HP50, X1 level of headphones, just as a reference.


----------



## Mike In Bama

Thanks mandrake,

That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The added attraction of building my own Polaris has me chomping at the bit to own it. I keep wondering what will be the worse thing I will hear about this amp. There has to be *something* negative. 

The Novo is fading a little from consideration. I have an ex-wife in England that was a lot of trouble. Maybe that amp needs to stay over there too.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I totally get building and having pride in your own assembly but man for a bit more you can have a 3 year warranty... Wonder if Jeremy would entertain a self-build with warranty deal? Probably not but never hurts to ask I guess. Plus I'm sure he'd be willing to help with parts and service even without warranty for a reasonable price.

 Had both Ember and Polaris built by him and everything was CLLEEAAANN.


----------



## Mike In Bama

That's a thought. But remember, I'm an electronics tech. I've only been doing this since 1972. Who is going to fix it 5 years from now? I am! Twenty five years from now? Me!

I'd like to think if I can repair a 2KW, 5 GHz troposcatter communication system alone, I can probably handle an audio amplifier. I'm nobody special, believe me! However, people bring things "unfixable" things to me and though I'm not perfect, I fix the majority of them.

I happen to be TRIPLE CURSED! I'm a left handed, Gemini, geek. You want to talk about outcast! I guess this is what I was born to do.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mike in bama said:


> That's a thought. But remember, I'm an electronics tech. I've only been doing this since 1972. Who is going to fix it 5 years from now? I am! Twenty five years from now? Me!
> 
> I'd like to think if I can repair a 2KW, 5 GHz troposcatter communication system alone, I can probably handle an audio amplifier. I'm nobody special, believe me! However, people bring things "unfixable" things to me and though I'm not perfect, I fix the majority of them.
> 
> I happen to be TRIPLE CURSED! I'm a left handed, Gemini, geek. You want to talk about outcast! I guess this is what I was born to do.


 

 Ah...so you're a professional DIYer lol. Well no problems then! For the rest of the novice DIYers however, that 3 year warranty is very clutch.


----------



## Amish

I'd like to buy a diy kit amp one day but I'm not ready for that yet.


----------



## micmacmo

amish said:


> I'd like to buy a diy kit amp one day but I'm not ready for that yet.


 
  
 As DIY projects go, this would be a good one. No surface mounted components. No live AC. A nicely designed PCB. Nudge. Nudge.
  


mike in bama said:


> That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The added attraction of building my own Polaris has me chomping at the bit to own it. I keep wondering what will be the worse thing I will hear about this amp. There has to be *something* negative.


 
  
 I think with good amps, it isn't so much a matter of having negatives. It's more a matter of being "not to everyone's tastes."  I haven't built my Polaris yet, but I'm willing to bet it will be a perfectly good amp with nuances that will distinguish it from other amps in my modest collection. Frankly, I find I prefer one amp one day and a different one the next. It's more a reflection on me than on the amp.


----------



## Mike In Bama

It's a simple design, assembly wise. There are two surface mounted components though. Thankfully, they are already soldered to the bottom of the board. They are the right and left channel opamps. 

Using the most care possible, i wouldnt imagine this being more than a two evening build. YMMV


----------



## mandrake50

micmacmo said:


> As DIY projects go, this would be a good one. No surface mounted components. No live AC. A nicely designed PCB. Nudge. Nudge.
> 
> 
> I think with good amps, it isn't so much a matter of having negatives. It's more a matter of being "not to everyone's tastes."  I haven't built my Polaris yet, but I'm willing to bet it will be a perfectly good amp with nuances that will distinguish it from other amps in my modest collection. Frankly, I find I prefer one amp one day and a different one the next. It's more a reflection on me than on the amp.


 

 I have not directly compared the Polaris (yet) to any of the other  amps that I have. There are over a dozen counting the portables. At this point, with maybe 30 hours listening to the Polaris, I think I could be happy with just having it to listen to... IF I wasn't a compulsive... "gotta try the next thing" personality. I think it  is that good.
 Maybe when I start comparing my mind will change some. What was it Mark Twain supposedly said...
 "Comparison is the death of Joy"... that and reading HeadFi !! That leads one to never be happy with what they have...


----------



## GreenMachine

After around 5 hours of listening, I can say I'm extremely happy with the Polaris! She really brings my HE400's to life. Astonishing bass and very clear across all the spectrum! I doubt I'll give a decent review as this is my first amp and my ears aren't well trained but once I get my settings figured out and have some time under my belt I'll be certain to throw a review up! Also an absolutely beautiful amp!

 Here she is!


----------



## Mike In Bama

She is a looker!

I don't know if everyone here realizes what they are seeing here. The resistors on that board don't have the usual colored stripes on them. Instead they have their value printed on them. Why?

They are precision resistors. They are expensive. Your average resistors have a 20% tolerance on their value. It would be nearly impossible to have both channels balanced with each other with those kind of parts.

This is truly a lot of amp for the money!


----------



## HOWIE13

I think they are a type of Vishay metal film resistor and Garage use them for all their stuff.
 My Polaris has just left LA, can't wait to get my hands on it. The only SS amp I have to compare it with is a basic o2 headphone amp, but I also have a Starlight and Horizon, so they will be interesting to compare too.


----------



## Mike In Bama

I've been looking around at other amps and paying particular attention to what is under the hood, where possible. I finally found one that had precision resistors in it. It's the Burson Audio Soloist SL, yours for the bargain price of $600!

I'm sure there are others out there, this one just caught my eye. Of course, all of the better grade parts you can get won't make up for poor implementation. That obviously isn't the case here with all of the raves we are hearing.

Baring Arizona turning into a sinkhole, I'm really expecting my Christmas present from the dog to have purple illumination.


----------



## proid

mike in bama said:


> She is a looker!
> 
> I don't know if everyone here realizes what they are seeing here. The resistors on that board don't have the usual colored stripes on them. Instead they have their value printed on them. Why?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, resistor which have color stripes on them can be 1% tolerance resistor or even 0,1%. I haven't seen any commercial amp that using something worse than 1% resistor even cheap cmoy.


----------



## Mike In Bama

Proid, of course you are exactly right. 

I am sometimes accused of talking over people's heads. Being new on here, I was merely trying to bring to the attention of others that this amp is an excellent value. Quality that others may not realize should be pointed out. 

I feel that Garage1217 may not exactly get rich off of this amp, but they are by no means ripping people off. I appreciate that! I saw something notable and thought others might appreciate knowing it as well.

High end audio is a special thing. It's an amazing hobby filled with truth, theory, BS, personal preference and so much more that can't be measured. Personally, I don't mind paying for better internal components even if I'm too ignorant to know if its a better product.


----------



## Drrizzt

I have just pulled the trigger on the Polaris as i have troubles with my Project Sunrise (heavy sound distortion past 12o' clock with my beloved He-500).
  
 I just hope that my He-500 is not "half broken", that i'll be able to send up the Sunrise to Jeremy to fix her up and then sell it.
  
 Besides that, i wonder what will be the improvement over the sunrise with the He-500, i expect something faster, tighter, clearer. I'm just a bit affraid of the musicality because i'm so in love with my Russian 6H23N, so much more than the clinical Amperex 12AT7 wich seems to be lifeless in comparison.


----------



## daerron

drrizzt said:


> I have just pulled the trigger on the Polaris as i have troubles with my Project Sunrise (heavy sound distortion past 12o' clock with my beloved He-500).
> 
> I just hope that my He-500 is not "half broken", that i'll be able to send up the Sunrise to Jeremy to fix her up and then sell it.
> 
> Besides that, i wonder what will be the improvement over the sunrise with the He-500, i expect something faster, tighter, clearer. I'm just a bit affraid of the musicality because i'm so in love with my Russian 6H23N, so much more than the clinical Amperex 12AT7 wich seems to be lifeless in comparison.


 
  
 I'd be curious as well, but that was the kind of improvement I got when I moved to the Emotiva Mini-X, but it does veer a bit too much to the brighter side. I'm hoping that the Polaris avoids that pitfall whilst retaining similar dynamics, but with a touch of more musicality like the rest of the Garage 1217 gang. The Sunrise 2 was very musical, but its dynamics was a bit lacking compared to the Mini-X.


----------



## Drrizzt

Is dynamics related to power output? If so I assume that with almost 2w, comparing to the 1w power output of the sunrise that it wil make the bass tighter. It's a litle bit loose on the sunrise for my taste.


----------



## mandrake50

drrizzt said:


> Is dynamics related to power output? If so I assume that with almost 2w, comparing to the 1w power output of the sunrise that it wil make the bass tighter. It's a litle bit loose on the sunrise for my taste.


 

 I find bass, and overall sound on the Sunrise to be highly tube dependent.
 I think that dynamics are only related to power output in that, without enough power to follow the peaks, you can get clipping. If you have enough volume to cover your listening preferences without clipping this should not be a factor. I usually more closely think of dynamics as being related to the speed of the amp and its noise floor.
  
 Having more power in and of itself will not necessarily make bass tighter.


----------



## mandrake50

drrizzt said:


> Is dynamics related to power output? If so I assume that with almost 2w, comparing to the 1w power output of the sunrise that it wil make the bass tighter. It's a litle bit loose on the sunrise for my taste.


 

 I find bass, and overall sound on the Sunrise to be highly tube dependent. Check out the Sunrise tube rolling thread.
  
 I think that dynamics are only related to power output in that, without enough power to follow the peaks, you can get clipping. If you have enough volume to cover your listening preferences without clipping this should not be a factor. I usually more closely think of dynamics as being related to the speed of the amp and its noise floor.
  
 Having more power in and of itself will not necessarily make bass tighter. The overall design of the amp might.


----------



## Drrizzt

Thanks! 

Can't wait to compare these two amps. I hope my he 500 is not defective and just that the sunrise is responsible for the sound distortion i get.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I find the bass on the Polaris audibly tighter than the Ember but YMMV with tubes. The cleanest tube I had were Tungsram and even the Polaris were able to reveal details in certain syn bass tracks that the Ember sorta hid with decay. 

The Polaris is highly impressive in this sense but tube lovers will always prefer the tube sound. I compared both with the he560


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> I find the bass on the Polaris audibly tighter than the Ember but YMMV with tubes. The cleanest tube I had were Tungsram and even the Polaris were able to reveal details in certain syn bass tracks that the Ember sorta hid with decay.
> 
> The Polaris is highly impressive in this sense but tube lovers will always prefer the tube sound. I compared both with the he560


 

 Tube lovers love distortion that tubes supply. It is pleasant, maybe euphonic.. but it is distortion.. Different tubes simply change the place that the distortion is applied.
 I am in that group BTW. With certain music and certain headphones (or speakers), I love my tube or hybrid amps. I am aware that it is because I like the coloration or "distortion" that they provide.
 You need to Like the Polaris as it is. After listening for three weeks now, I do like it. It is very solid on the low end, it is open on the high end. It is really neutral overall, but has a tad bit of that tube mellowness. Likely because of the FET design. It is what it is, but from my experience, that is real good!
 When I plug it in, I know what I am going to get.  No waiting for a two hour warm up, or remembering the "best" tube it put in for the program material or transducer, and bias, the tubes and wait for them to stabilize. Plug and go!  I like it!


----------



## HOWIE13

Does anybody have experience of using the treble tuning, if that's the way to describe it, on the Polaris? I read somewhere that it may reduce treble 'edginess'


----------



## Mike In Bama

I don't have any experience with the treble tuning, but you might want to look at the manual. In the Garage1217 web site, there is a tab for manuals. In the last page or so are a couple of graphs of the FR curves with the different settings.


----------



## GreenMachine

Doing this from my phone. Hope it works right.

Now to answer your question I will say that just moving the BW settings to the lowest setting did help tone down the sharpness/edge of the HE400's. They were still sharp but toned down a bit. I say give the BW settings a try and listen to each one for a day or so and you'll possibly be able to tell the difference. Best of luck! 


howie13 said:


> Does anybody have experience of using the treble tuning, if that's the way to describe it, on the Polaris? I read somewhere that it may reduce treble 'edginess'


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder how well the bandwith settings work on the HE-400's problematic treble. Anyone tested this?

WOW, I AM AN IDIOT. YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS. DISREGARD.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

howie13 said:


> Does anybody have experience of using the treble tuning, if that's the way to describe it, on the Polaris? I read somewhere that it may reduce treble 'edginess'


 
 Most of the tuning happens after 10khz meaning that the sense of air is lessened more so than peaks under 10k, with that said I can hear an audible difference on the 560s that made certain poor mastering more tolerable. Trying dynamic drivers and ortho magnetics, the orthos showed the lessening of treble more than the dynamic drivers.

 As to the HE400's peak, I couldn't say from experience but it I think it would help to an extent.


----------



## mandrake50

The 400s have their own signature. They seem to me to have a recessed midrange to upper mids. They have emphasis in the 5K to 12K range.
 I have played with the bandwidth adjustments on the Polaris. It really just knocks down the  above 10K range.... to my ears and based on measurements.
 If you want to tame the 400s look to pads. The Jergpads or the Focus pads from Hifiman. Then think about the  grill mods.
 I have the Jergpads and opened up the grills. I got rid of the sibilance and harshness in voices and symbols... and violins .
 They start to be fun to listen to because they aggravate me less. Nice Bass and smoothed out high end.
 Still nice and open and detailed sounding on the top...but not nearly as harsh.
  
 In other words, in my experience, the bandwidth settings can leave out some of the frequencies (Not all of the ones you want for the 400s), but you need more for the 400s to do what it sounds like you are looking for!
  
 Polaris is a very nice amp with lots of flexibility. Don't expect any miraculous changes for a phone that you don't like to begin with!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the HE-400 (owned it twice). All I want from it is a reduced treble output.

And you're wrong about the emphasis. The HE-400's treble dominance over all else starts at around 9khz and onward. 5khz-6khz is actually recessed relative to everything else about it (both Tyll and Purrin's graphs show this, Headroom's graph is of old HE-400, IIRC). 7-9khz is about on par with the bass and general mids, which then starts outdoing the rest of the sound spectrum with it's hot treble.

I've removed the grills as well, and it doesn't miraculously change the 400 in any shape or form other than aiding imaging and spaciousness by a smidge.

I didn't use Jergpads though. Velour and stock.

If Polaris's bandwidth adjustment mostly impacts 10khz and above (I'd like to see what exactly it impacts), then it should be beneficial to the HE-400 which is tilted quite upwards in those ranges. I don't need it to blunt it heavily. Just shave off a few dbs to at least let the treble meet the bass to mid line.


----------



## HOWIE13

Thanks for all the replies. I actually like the treble of the HE400,  but maybe the treble tuning of the Polaris will bring some benefit to these, and some of my other, cans. Will have to wait another few days for my Polaris to clear UK Customs


----------



## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I actually like the treble of the HE400,  but maybe the treble tuning of the Polaris will bring some benefit to these, and some of my other, cans. Will have to wait another few days for my Polaris to clear UK Customs


 

 Please let us know what you think.
 When I first got My Polaris I tried all of the settings with a few phones. Just out of curiosity. I have set everything back to basically wide open and low output impedance. I usually like the least amount of electronic processing between me and the music. I do want to try changing the output impedance for some of my Hi Z phones at some point. OTH, I am a big believer in  the concept of... If it works for you, do it (in audio anyway)
 I will be interested to read what you think about the different settings you use and how you think that they work with the HE-400.


----------



## HOWIE13

Sure I will let you know how I find the Polaris with the HE400, and I couldn't agree more with you concerning the shortest, least processed signal path. I'm not quite sure where to start though! I can compare to Horizon, Starlight and an o2 op amp as well as a couple of Fiio's. No Ember I'm afraid. Just hope it won't get lost in UK Customs.


----------



## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> Sure I will let you know how I find the Polaris with the HE400, and I couldn't agree more with you concerning the shortest, least processed signal path. I'm not quite sure where to start though! I can compare to Horizon, Starlight and an o2 op amp as well as a couple of Fiio's. No Ember I'm afraid. Just hope it won't get lost in UK Customs.


 

 My suggestion would be to just try listening to it for awhile. I am not big on the concept of burn-in with electronics. But I do think that it takes a bit of time to get used to something new. Once you are, it is easier to analyze things. For me, it also makes any comparisons that I may do easier as well!
  
 I hope, for you, that the amp arrives safely and SOON !!


----------



## HOWIE13

I know you are right but my natural reaction will be to jump to immediate comparison conclusions-but I will wait and be patient before I go public!


----------



## Drrizzt

Got the Polaris !

It is a good step up from the Sunrise, the more visible change is the tightness of the bass, it's more clean, bigger soundstage, faster yet the musicality is still there. 

That would be a great amp with the HD 800 i guess because of this addictive musicality.


----------



## micmacmo

Checking in. The Polaris handily drives HE-6 (full Jerg mods). I prefer the mid bandwidth setting. (I found the high bandwidth setting had a bit of a bass bloom.)


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

micmacmo said:


> Checking in. The Polaris handily drives HE-6 (full Jerg mods). I prefer the mid bandwidth setting. (I found the high bandwidth setting had a bit of a bass bloom.


 
 What other amps do you have for the HE6 and how does the Polaris stack against it? Would you say the Polaris is an entry level for the HE6 or a full-on mature amp for it? (not sure if mature is the right word).


----------



## micmacmo

soundsgoodtome said:


> What other amps do you have for the HE6 and how does the Polaris stack against it? Would you say the Polaris is an entry level for the HE6 or a full-on mature amp for it? (not sure if mature is the right word).


 
 You'll have to take into account that I don't have any amps that I paid more than $300 for and I'm decidedly a mid-fi and DIY guy, so everything I own is probably entry level. I've let the Project Polaris settle in for about 150 hours and I've only got about 10 hours of listening under my belt, hence my limited comments. Also, I recently modded my HE-6 with jergpads, grill mod and fuzzor mod so most of my comments below are based on my previously stock HE-6. 
  
 For amp comparisons, here's what I've got

stock TEAC A-H01 amp (with class-D Bang and Olufsen modules)-- HE-6 needs to be driven off the speaker taps with an 8-ohm L-pad resistor network; the speaker jack won't drive 'em. Good detail, imaging and solid bass, but with an over-emphasis or a bit of glare on the high end so things like cymbals seem unnaturally close to the listener. 
 
Modded Chinese class D board (with TI TPA3118 chip) — All the rage on DIYaudio and other boards, these should be modded for better sound. Same overall comments as with the TEAC even after modding. Can be a bit tiring with HE-6, but surprisingly good with speakers (especially consider these things cost about $30, including mods). I prefer them with the Project Sunrise II in front of them as pre-amp.
Vintage AKAI AM-2200 — HE-6 sounded great off the speaker taps with an 8-ohm L pad. But one channel died before I had a chance to play with it much. Probably needs to be recapped; my next project.
Sapphire amp (DIY amp) — my current favourite with the HE-6. Wide soundstage. Good instrument separation with a cohesive and realistic presentation. Not perfect on the treble (a bit thin, but perhaps my DAC?). Good bass extension.


----------



## mandrake50

OK, so how/where does the  mix. I am perfectly happy with the Polaris and HE 400i, just interested in your thoughts.
  
 BTW, I wouldn't consider the HE 6 mid-fi.. at least not by the reviews nor the price ! (I have never had the opportunity to listen to them. I am going to make a concerted effort to get to RMAF this year, hopefully I will then)


----------



## Got7

micmacmo said:


> You'll have to take into account that I don't have any amps that I paid more than $300 for and I'm decidedly a mid-fi and DIY guy, so everything I own is probably entry level. I've let the Project Polaris settle in for about 150 hours and I've only got about 10 hours of listening under my belt, hence my limited comments. Also, I recently modded my HE-6 with jergpads, grill mod and fuzzor mod so most of my comments below are based on my previously stock HE-6.
> 
> For amp comparisons, here's what I've got
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is the Sapphire you meantion the RJM Sapphire?


----------



## micmacmo

Quote:


mandrake50 said:


> OK, so how/where does the  mix. I am perfectly happy with the Polaris and HE 400i, just interested in your thoughts.
> 
> BTW, I wouldn't consider the HE 6 mid-fi.. at least not by the reviews nor the price ! (I have never had the opportunity to listen to them. I am going to make a concerted effort to get to RMAF this year, hopefully I will then)


 
  
 You're right about the HE-6. My apologies. I was thinking of getting myself a nice set of open headphones when someone locally decided to sell their HE-6 at a reasonable price. I took it as a sign from the heavens that I should buy them. Not my normal style, but I'm glad I did. 
  


got7 said:


> Is the Sapphire you meantion the RJM Sapphire?


 
 Yes, that's the one.
  
 Now, back on topic. One of the beauties of the Polaris that I'm appreciating is that it's really flexible (it'll drive everything from earbuds to HE-6) and it's got a lot of features (bandwidth adjustment, built-in attenuation, resistance matching). Oh, and the funky ability to adjust the brightness of the off/on LED indicator! It's a really smart design.


----------



## micmacmo

Another check-in. My Project Polaris amp has been settling in for over 200 hours now and the sound continues to open up. More clarity. Better bass definition.
  
 I guess I'm well and truly a believer that solid state amps need burn-in and that some amps require more time than others to settle in.


----------



## money4me247

micmacmo said:


> Another check-in. My Project Polaris amp has been settling in for over 200 hours now and the sound continues to open up. More clarity. Better bass definition.
> 
> I guess I'm well and truly a believer that solid state amps need burn-in and that some amps require more time than others to settle in.


 
 no possibility that it is just your brain adjusting to the new sound signature? hahah =P


----------



## mandrake50

money4me247 said:


> no possibility that it is just your brain adjusting to the new sound signature? hahah =P




The problem is, we have (he has) no way of knowing for sure. 200 hours is a long time and audio memory, reliable, detailed audio memory, is quite short. 
The main thing is that we get to the point of enjoying the sound. Regardless of how or why we get there.

I just like the job that the Polaris does for the things that I got it for. I easily have 250 hours on it. A great deal of that actually listening. I can't say that I have noticed any significant changes in the sound since I first plugged it in to my system. That is fine with me, because I liked it upon first listen. I think I would be disappointed if it had changed.


----------



## Mike In Bama

I'll admit right up front, I'm a firm believer in burn-in. I've watched and/or listened for it with every component I've bought within the last 25 years or so. 

The salesman reminded me when I bought my home speakers of how bad they would sound out of the box. Of course, that's more of a mechanical break-in. 

What really caught me off guard was how awful the picture was when I bought my flat screen tv. It took about 3 weeks before I could even make it look half decent. I tweaked the adjustments every day for a few months before I got it perfect. 

I didn't expect that from an LED tv.


----------



## micmacmo

money4me247 said:


> no possibility that it is just your brain adjusting to the new sound signature? hahah =P




Expectation bias? You're preaching to the converted there. I had a number of T50rp headphones I was modding and thought I was making huge improvements on one particular set. After about a week, I decided to work on a neglected set of modded T50RP. I compared my new favourite mods against the neglected mods and I could not tell the difference. :confused_face(1): it was very deflating.

In this case, I have both the Project Polaris and the RJM Sapphire on my desk and I switch between them regularly. Last night I did a bit of A/B testing (granted, the testing was not blind and I was spending about 10 seconds switching cables) before I decided I should make my update this morning. Either the Sapphire is drifting in a negative direction or the Polaris is now sounding better.


----------



## money4me247

micmacmo said:


> Expectation bias? You're preaching to the converted there. I had a number of T50rp headphones I was modding and thought I was making huge improvements on one particular set. After about a week, I decided to work on a neglected set of modded T50RP. I compared my new favourite mods against the neglected mods and I could not tell the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I personally wouldn't think that the actual performance of the amplifiers is changing, but rather your brain is getting better at picking apart the subtle differences. just imo! 
  
 glad to hear that you are liking the product regardless haahh


----------



## micmacmo

money4me247 said:


> I personally wouldn't think that the actual performance of the amplifiers is changing, but rather your brain is getting better at picking apart the subtle differences. just imo!


 
  Either my amps are performing better or my brain is getting better at something? I consider that a win either way! 
  
  
  
 Quote:


money4me247 said:


> glad to hear that you are liking the product regardless haahh


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait until you hit 5000 hours. Magical fairies will whisper in your ears.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

There's an audible difference between hour 1 and hour 96 on this amp, anyone purchasing new should test it with a headphone they're familiar with. Just wait 4 days of playing time after listening the first hour or two and you'll hear the amp settle nicely.


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> There's an audible difference between hour 1 and hour 96 on this amp, anyone purchasing new should test it with a headphone they're familiar with. Just wait 4 days of playing time after listening the first hour or two and you'll hear the amp settle nicely.


 

 Interesting. I never noticed that at all. Not sure what I missed, but I don't think I am missing anything in sound, or gaining anything!
 I guess that the term "audible" might be quite relative.


----------



## money4me247

mad lust envy said:


> Wait until you hit 5000 hours. Magical fairies will whisper in your ears.


 
 rotfl!!!! heh  they said some naughty things


soundsgoodtome said:


> There's an audible difference between hour 1 and hour 96 on this amp, anyone purchasing new should test it with a headphone they're familiar with. Just wait 4 days of playing time after listening the first hour or two and you'll hear the amp settle nicely.


 
 maybe for tube amps? but hard for me to imagine that happening with SS. who knows tho! hahaha


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

None of you guys notice the treble calming down? I experienced both with Polaris and Ember....

Which G1217 amp do you have Money?


----------



## money4me247

soundsgoodtome said:


> None of you guys notice the treble calming down? I experienced both with Polaris and Ember....


 
 i've had silibance issues with new headphones that seem to settle down, but i've always thought it was just my brain adjusting to the new sound sig as i didn't change amps.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

^^^





mandrake50 said:


> Interesting. I never noticed that at all. Not sure what I missed, but I don't think I am missing anything in sound, or gaining anything!
> I guess that the term "audible" might be quite relative.







money4me247 said:


> rotfl!!!! heh  they said some naughty things
> maybe for tube amps? but hard for me to imagine that happening with SS. who knows tho! hahaha


----------



## ericr

If you were listening all along during those 96 hours the change would be far to subtle to hear along the way.

But if one did as Soundsgoodtome and compared just before and just after 96 hours the contrast might then be enough to notice.


----------



## money4me247

ericr said:


> If you were listening all along during those 96 hours the change would be far to subtle to hear along the way.
> 
> But if one did as Soundsgoodtome and compared just before and just after 96 hours the contrast might then be enough to notice.


 
 have you ever heard about the short duration of our audio memory? I personally think that it would be pretty hard to accurately & detailed remember the exact sonic characteristics of an amp after to 96 hrs have passed to make an accurate comparison. I think after that length of time, your audio memory is subject to inaccuracies. Have you ever had the experience when a song sounds different (better or worse) when nothing else has changed? I feel like our experiences with audio/music is also linked to our emotions and subject other psychological influences. I think there needs to be more  objective evidence over someone's subjective impressions to really confirm the existence of burn-in with amps.
  
 some interesting links:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echoic_memory
 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140312-auditory-memory-visual-learning-brain-research-science/
 http://www.pnas.org/content/106/14/6008.full


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

money4me247 said:


> have you ever heard about the short duration of our audio memory? I personally think that it would be pretty hard to accurately & detailed remember the exact sonic characteristics of an amp after to 96 hrs have passed to make an accurate comparison. I think after that length of time, your audio memory is subject to inaccuracies. Have you ever had the experience when a song sounds different (better or worse) when nothing else has changed? I feel like our experiences with audio/music is also linked to our emotions and subject other psychological influences. I think there needs to be more  objective evidence over someone's subjective impressions to really confirm the existence of burn-in with amps.
> 
> some interesting links:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echoic_memory
> ...





Sorry but while auditory memory isn't a solid basis to compare, when something hurts your ears and 96hrs later it doesn't... well that doesn't apply to auditory memory.


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> Sorry but while auditory memory isn't a solid basis to compare, when something hurts your ears and 96hrs later it doesn't... well that doesn't apply to auditory memory.


 

 It could be due to how much you slept last night, your blood pressure, the amount of stress that you are under..
 Can you repeat the experience? 
 Our brains make it all happen. They change based on SUB millisecond responses to "things"...other than what our ears... or, purportedly. hear in response to movements in the air! 
  
 Can you repeat the experiment and document the same results??
  
 Auditory memory is documented in being measured in sub second ranges. Then we go to a few minutes... then it goes to ..What I want to hear..
 That is the disconnect!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I repeated the experience on the Polaris, first experiences of the treble calming were two project embers newly assembled. Second ember had fully burned in tubes. The three experiences/experiments were months apart.

We can talk about auditory memory and trying to debunk 3 separate experiences but really if I were bs-ing people, why would I in this case? It doesn't benefit me or Garage 1217 (I like their products)... just my experience, your experience and ears may vary.


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> I repeated the experience on the Polaris, first experiences of the treble calming were two project embers newly assembled. Second ember had fully burned in tubes. The three experiences/experiments were months apart.
> 
> We can talk about auditory memory and trying to debunk 3 separate experiences but really if I were bs-ing people, why would I in this case? It doesn't benefit me or Garage 1217 (I like their products)... just my experience, your experience and ears may bar.


 

 No BSing. I am sure. It is what you reported. Question, is, is  it reliable over lots of time?
 It is not you, it is indicative of lots that I read at HeadFi.  If it is more than 5 minutes that has elapsed since the comparison,  it always makes me wonder! 
 I always question the poster!! I am just trying to figure out whether I should make note of what they say..., or care..


----------



## Leo888

Subbed.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mandrake50 said:


> I am just trying to figure out whether I should make note of what they say..., or care..
> 
> :evil:


Then why respond? Interesting mention on the BP, stress, air, etc though. 

3 different amps newly built for me is conclusive enough to confirm there is a settling in the treble, not sure how else to explain it. Maybe someone can buy two Polaris, let one burn in and then other unused. Then a/b


----------



## Asr

Just posted my review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/garage1217-project-polaris/reviews/11612


----------



## Mike In Bama

Thank you for the review, Asr!

The Polaris continues to be on my list of amps to consider. It seems that it is not only an awesome piece of gear, but also an excellent value.


----------



## HOWIE13

asr said:


> Just posted my review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/garage1217-project-polaris/reviews/11612


 
 That's a great review-thanks.
 I have had my Polaris for around 2 weeks now and have also been impressed, with different headphones from yours.
 The Polaris gives an effortless, fatigue free clarity-so rare at this price range (or maybe any price).
 It is the only HA that can allow me to listen with ease to the treble of the K701, and the HE 400 is smooth and quite neutral sounding, if you position the bandwidth at the middle setting-it does make a difference. The Polaris sound-stage is very wide and deep and this increases clarity-compared with a range of Fiios and an o2 op amp there is no contest.
 It's difficult to differentiate the sound with the HE400 between the Polaris and Horizon 3, using a Philips Factory manufactured ECC88 'Valvo' tube from 1964. However, as has already been pointed out in another post, the ease of use, consistency and reliability of SS compared to valve designs is something to bear in mind.
 The biggest surprise for me was with my HD650, which was agile and fast with the Polaris. I had to double check it really was the HD650 I was listening with!
 Garage 1217 have managed to create a valve-like SS amp, which is clear and neutral, without any harshness. This, coupled with Garage's renowned, excellent customer service and 5 year warranty for their built products, does make this seem excellent value.
 I could go on-but I will stop there to go back and listen to some more music just now.
 .


----------



## micmacmo

For anyone looking for a first DIY project, the Project Polaris is a good one. All through-hole construction (no SMD required). Terrific instructions. And the kit is all-inclusive, you don't need to buy anything else, including the enclosure.  
 
(I'll add to Howie and Asr's reviews with a comment about really good dynamics: the attack and decay of piano sounds realistic.)


----------



## Leo888

micmacmo said:


> For anyone looking for a first DIY project, the Project Polaris is a good one. All through-hole construction (no SMD required). Terrific instructions. And the kit is all-inclusive, you don't need to buy anything else, including the enclosure.
> 
> (I'll add to Howie and Asr's reviews with a comment about really good dynamics: the attack and decay of piano sounds realistic.)




Would building one requires any soldering? Thanks in advance micmacmo.


----------



## micmacmo

Yes, it does involve soldering. It involves through-hole soldering, which is easier than SMD soldering.


----------



## Leo888

micmacmo said:


> Yes, it does involve soldering. It involves through-hole soldering, which is easier than SMD soldering.




Thanks micmacmo. I don't have a soldering iron and gosh, never did any soldering before. But guess it's not a thing that can't be learned. Looking to replace my Fiio E9 for my HD650. Polaris looks great but will have to wait for more impression to roll in.

Thanks again micmacmo.


----------



## iancraig10

ASR, did you try changing the bandwidth settings on the Polaris? It's a pretty fast amp and the top end would be affected by the change.


----------



## jaxz

Polaris or Ember for HE-500/4? What do you think guys?


----------



## Mike In Bama

I agree that the Polaris is an excellent kit, but I would be concerned if it were someone's *first* attempt at learning how to solder. There is just too much opportunity to destroy the semiconductors (4 transistors & 7 diodes/LEDs) if you aren't experienced.

Instead, maybe a simple, inexpensive project would be a better starter option. This is nice little FM transmitter (bug) project. 


A more advanced project was this Transistor & Diode Tester. If you can successfully build this, you should have no trouble assembling the Polaris. 


Your best friend on any soldering job is a set of hemostats. Clip them to the leg of the component you are soldering to keep the heat from burning the item up. Semiconductors are very unforgiving to heat. 


Please understand, I'm not trying to convince anyone to not build this amp. I intend to purchase the kit if the is the amp I settle on myself. Soldering requires a little bit of touch to do well and that takes some time to learn.


----------



## iancraig10

jaxz said:


> Polaris or Ember for HE-500/4? What do you think guys?




I have an Ember and could soon have a Polaris to compare.

My immediate thoughts are that the Polaris is designed to emulate the sound of a tube amp but has the advantages of being solid state. Personally, I really like the valve sound of the Ember but I have always been a little nervous of tubes and their reliability,. (Since the 60's!!)

If the Polaris is close to the Ember, I will stick with the SS for its better reliability.

Having said that, I REALLY like the Ember a lot.


----------



## mandrake50

iancraig10 said:


> Personally, I really like the valve sound of the Ember but I have always been a little nervous of tubes and their reliability,. (Since the 60's!!)


 
 For good reason. I too have messed with tubes since the 60s. Some of my radios needed tubes every 6 months it seemed. Many tubes have rated lifetimes of 500 to 1000 hours. That did not seem bad when I was paying 1 to 3 dollars a piece for them. When I spend upwards of $100... and many folks pay double or triple that, it gets expensive pretty quickly... at least with my frame of reference and budget for headphone audio. I really like my Sunrise III amps, but I don't put a lot of hours on them because I dread trying to find and pay for the nice Mullards that I use in them. In comparison I have been running my Polaris anytime I listen to music with no cares.
  
 As to the kits. I have lots of kit experience. But, Jeremy does a great job building his amps and you get the warranty. All of my garage amps have been built by him. It is fun to build kits and there is the pride in a job well done when you finish and they work. My time has just become more precious lately.


----------



## jaxz

iancraig10 said:


> I have an Ember and could soon have a Polaris to compare.
> 
> My immediate thoughts are that the Polaris is designed to emulate the sound of a tube amp but has the advantages of being solid state. Personally, I really like the valve sound of the Ember but I have always been a little nervous of tubes and their reliability,. (Since the 60's!!)
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to your comparisons. Do you have any HiFiMAN planar to evaluate/compare both amps?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## BillJGW

iancraig10 said:


> I have an Ember and could soon have a Polaris to compare.
> 
> My immediate thoughts are that the Polaris is designed to emulate the sound of a tube amp but has the advantages of being solid state. Personally, I really like the valve sound of the Ember but I have always been a little nervous of tubes and their reliability,. (Since the 60's!!)
> 
> ...


 

 New member, long time lurker, first time poster here.  I've been in the 2-channel game for over 30 years and am just starting to explore the HP arena.
  
 Your post, iancraig, and many others here on Head-Fi reminded me of some of the tube amps I have owned in the past.  I do have to chuckle somewhat, however, when I read when folks are concerned about heat concerns from HP amps.  One system I owned in the past was a big Atma-sphere set-up, full Class A mono OTL amps with (20) 6AS7s per amp.  Those threw off so much heat I barely ran the system during the summer months.
  
 Back on topic, I have been reading with great interest about the Ember and esp. the Polaris amps.  Every time one turns on a tube preamp or amp, the tube(s) has degraded ever so slightly in performance.  Tubes certainly aren't getting any cheaper, that's for sure.  I'm on a fixed income now so money is a precious commodity for me.  SS, if done properly, can sound great and have hints of the "tube" sound.  I'm looking forward to more folks posting impressions of the Polaris amp.
  
 BTW, it was most fortuitous how I stumbled onto Garage1217's products.  Logging onto HF one day, there was asr's review at the top of the page.  The rest is history...  Thanks asr and Garage1217.


----------



## iancraig10

mandrake50 said:


> For good reason. I too have messed with tubes since the 60s. Some of my radios needed tubes every 6 months it seemed. Many tubes have rated lifetimes of 500 to 1000 hours. That did not seem bad when I was paying 1 to 3 dollars a piece for them. When I spend upwards of $100... and many folks pay double or triple that, it gets expensive pretty quickly... at least with my frame of reference and budget for headphone audio. I really like my Sunrise III amps, but I don't put a lot of hours on them because I dread trying to find and pay for the nice Mullards that I use in them. In comparison I have been running my Polaris anytime I listen to music with no cares.
> 
> As to the kits. I have lots of kit experience. But, Jeremy does a great job building his amps and you get the warranty. All of my garage amps have been built by him. It is fun to build kits and there is the pride in a job well done when you finish and they work. My time has just become more precious lately.




When I was a kid, I used to supposedly 'fix' TVs. I collected them on a motor bike!!! Strapped them on the back and took them away. Opened up and just replaced all the valves!!! Normally, that was the problem.

Then I became a musician after I built my own synthesiser from an old kit!! I've developed to buying new ones now though.

I really like the sound of valves though and I'm very fortunate to have Solderdude, who designed the amp and Jeremy, the guy who sells them on a hi Fi site that I run along with Javier. I supply music info, Solderdude is everyone's' saviour with his amazing technical knowledge and never ending willingness to help people and Javier looks after digital. (DIY Audio Heaven)

Jeremy also appears there and he links to us on his Garage1217 site which is also very kind of him because we are a small site.

Jeremy is an extremely nice guy and somewhat unusual as a seller. His heart is really into these amps and he's a proper enthusiast. He doesn't make a massive profit on them either which makes them excellent value. When he started, I was sent a prototype Sunrise which, because of my (then) noisy electrical environment, with synths everywhere, I got electrical noise, so I said so in my review. Jeremy got right on it and all issues were fixed. It became my favourite amp, later to be replaced by the Ember and now a Polaris.

Support from Jeremy and Solderdude is absolutely top notch so you do get amazing value and a first class after treatment from them that you rarely see anywhere else.

The other thing about the Ember and Polaris that many seem to not talk about is their configurability. Comparison with other amps can be a bit difficult in that it is a bit of a Jekyl and Hyde amp. This seems to be ignored along with the brief that Solderdude was working to in its design.

Although Solderdude loves 'flat' headphones and makes filters to get the, flat, (boy, do they work too) the brief for the Polaris was for people perhaps similar to me. That
Is, we like a tube sound and have multitudes of headphones. In my case, I use them for work. So Solderdude has done a lot of research and work on amps that are configurable so that they can drive a very wide range of headphones properly.

This involves changing the output impedance if you wish as well; something that some people disagree with, I know, but it really works with some headphones. Try a k701 at 120 ohms output impedance and it's smoother sounding. To do this though, you need a lot of available power, which the Polaris and Ember have.

My own feelings are that if it improves the sound who cares what theories say. I am aware that many get itchy if the output impedance goes above 1 ohm. All I can say is 'try it' if your amp has enough power.

So many reviews seem to miss the point of the Polaris and often compare it with much more expensive amps, which is a compliment, I guess.

Mine will be on the way soon so I'll comment on it then perhaps. The only thing that some may disagree with is altering the output impedance in order to slightly 'mould' the sound. The Polaris also has a band width adjustment which will also affect the sound a lot.

So you see, the point is that you can mould the sound up to a point, to the type of headphone that you have and your own preferences, while also getting a tube like sound. That seems to be played down in some reviews and is what makes the Polaris quite unique.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> When I was a kid, I used to supposedly 'fix' TVs. I collected them on a motor bike!!! Strapped them on the back and took them away. Opened up and just replaced all the valves!!! Normally, that was the problem.
> 
> Then I became a musician after I built my own synthesiser from an old kit!! I've developed to buying new ones now though.
> 
> ...


 
 That is so true.
 Today being Sunday I can just roll out of bed and enjoy some nice music through my Polaris to help me wake up without having to wait 30 minutes for a valve to warm up.
 Additionally, I don't have to start considering which tube is going to suit the music I am playing- the Polaris, with it's very effective filters does this for me very easily-and, as you say, output and gain impedance controls to suit your chosen headphone can also be adjusted. I find increasing the output impedance enhances the bass and cuts out some treble edge on poorer engineered digital recordings.
 Of course, when you have got your valve amp set up and running correctly it can sound wonderful but it can take time and you need experience with different music and tubes.
 In 1972, with my first pay packet, I bought a wonderful home HiFi amplifier made by Quad. It was marketed on the basis that it was SS but emulated the valve sound-which it did. The Polaris' sound signature reminds me a lot of the Quad.
 The other thing I like about my Polaris is the fact that  the channels are perfectly balanced at the lowest audible volume, rather than having to turn the vol pot up to the 9 o'clock position to achieve this.
 I was listening in the early hours to Schubert's 'Death and the Maiden' String Quartet. The Polaris captured the speed and excitement of the final movement in a way I have rarely heard before, and that was listening with the P7- not a can I expect to sound super fast. The Polaris is breathing new life into a lot of my cans.


----------



## Suopermanni

Just out of curiousity, has anyone heard both the Corda Classic and the Polaris? I'm looking at getting a Polaris for a HE560 in the future.


----------



## iancraig10

Howie13 - Death and the Maiden on a Sunday morning? My goodness, heavy going!!!

Interesting that it reminds you of a Quad. I loved those amps. Great times. The thing is, the amp is supposed to give you the warmth of tubes, which is quite funny in a way. Solderdude loves flat headphones, and believe me, any headphone treated by him sounds amazingly clear. I wish he was around in the 70s, I would have tried to get him working with me. I had so many arguments with sound engineers, to the point of punch ups!!! The transition from vinyl to cd was even worse!! Where was he then? In spite of his love of flat headphone sound, he also likes the warmth of a tube.

Here, no worries about them going 'off' as you use them. SS design, tube sound and an amount of configurability and real power that is really quite unique. His Kameleon amp is another gem. It has a slot for a filter, TUNED to the headphone that you are using. The filters are removable.

Another one I must listen to tbh, but moving house has cost me a fortune along with a promise to the wife!!! So I have to lock my wallet for now!!!!!!

Solderdude is an amazing mine of information with real world designs that are amazing value for money and Jeremy is doing a fantastic customer relations job, selling them at the price he does. These amps can take on big boys with the added advantage of 'tuneability'.

I really love the Ember sound with its tube timbre and I can't wait to hear the Polaris after what I've read here and on DIY Audio Heaven. (I'm the Rabbit on there!! (Cos I talk too much!!))

The it'll have to be Death and the Maiden for me too!!!!


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Howie13 - Death and the Maiden on a Sunday morning? My goodness, heavy going!!!
> 
> Interesting that it reminds you of a Quad. I loved those amps. Great times. The thing is, the amp is supposed to give you the warmth of tubes, which is quite funny in a way. Solderdude loves flat headphones, and believe me, any headphone treated by him sounds amazingly clear. I wish he was around in the 70s, I would have tried to get him working with me. I had so many arguments with sound engineers, to the point of punch ups!!! The transition from vinyl to cd was even worse!! Where was he then? In spite of his love of flat headphone sound, he also likes the warmth of a tube.
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely true, Solderdude and Jeremy are a great partnership!
 I am in the opposite situation to you as I have a Polaris but no Ember. I do have the Horizon and the sound of the Polaris is not too dissimilar using a very good quality, fairly warm and clear tube. I guess tube amps will always have an inherent versatility advantage over SS because of rolling, but sometimes I just want to switch on and enjoy without thinking too much about the set up. I, not surprisingly, didn't sleep too well last night, due to being over adrenalised, so I am sticking to Mozart and Bach today!


----------



## iancraig10

The slow movement from the F major Brandenburg always gets to me. That wonderful oboe solo with the crazy harmony beneath. How modern was that? Amazing composer, Bach. (And child creator)

I'm sitting here waiting for a Fiio X1 to review for UK since they haven't quite been released over here yet and now a Polaris as well. It's like Christmas here!!

Jeremy is a real enthusiast and I think starting up Garage1217 was a really bold move; especially with recessions etc. He really has put a lot into it and deserves to do well.

When I get the Polaris, I'll write something about it here and on DIYAH.


----------



## BillJGW

howie13 said:


> That is so true.
> Today being Sunday and I can just roll out of bed and enjoy some nice music through my Polaris to help me wake up without having to wait 30 minutes for a valve to warm up.
> Additionally, I don't have to start considering which tube is going to suit the music I am playing- the Polaris, with it's very effective filters does this for me very easily-and, as you say, output and gain impedance controls to suit your chosen headphone can also be adjusted. I find increasing the output impedance enhances the bass and cuts out some treble edge on poorer engineered digital recordings.
> Of course, when you have got your valve amp set up and running correctly it can sound wonderful but it can take time and you need experience with different music and tubes.
> ...


 

 Howie13,
  
 Your description of the Quad amp helped me out alot.  Used to have one of those way back when driving a pair of Quad 57s.  That amp had very different sound sigs depending on whether you had the limiters in it or not, necessary when running a single pr. of 57s.
  
 I'm really impressed with the design work that went into the Garage amps as far as variable BW and output loads plus the autobias on the Ember.  Some slick options that are std. on these amps.
  
 I read through this entire thread but I can't remember if anybody mentioned what cans they're using.  I'm most interested in running the HFM HE-500s off the Polaris.  Anybody else doing this?  I realize it has enough power, just wondering about system matching.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> The slow movement from the F major Brandenburg always gets to me. That wonderful oboe solo with the crazy harmony beneath. How modern was that? Amazing composer, Bach. (And child creator)
> 
> I'm sitting here waiting for a Fiio X1 to review for UK since they haven't quite been released over here yet and now a Polaris as well. It's like Christmas here!!
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to your comparisons, Ian.


----------



## HOWIE13

billjgw said:


> Howie13,
> 
> Your description of the Quad amp helped me out alot.  Used to have one of those way back when driving a pair of Quad 57s.  That amp had very different sound sigs depending on whether you had the limiters in it or not, necessary when running a single pr. of 57s.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I remember those filters/limiters now. They were quite revolutionary for their day. I think you dialed them in on my model.
 Sorry, I don't have the HE500, but the HD600 and 650, HE 400, DT 880, P7, HP100, K701, and M50 all sound very good indeed.


----------



## Leo888

howie13 said:


> Sorry I don't have those, but the HD600 and 650, HE 400, DT 880, P7, HP100, K701, and M50 all sound very good indeed.




Hi HOWIE13, mind elaborate a little on the HD650 and M50. These are cans I have. Hope you could give some thoughts if you have tried with sensitive iem.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## HOWIE13

leo888 said:


> Hi HOWIE13, mind elaborate a little on the HD650 and M50. These are cans I have. Hope you could give some thoughts if you have tried with sensitive iem.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 Sure. The HD650 becomes more agile and loses much of it's mid/low bloom and gains treble-it's clearer and seems faster, quite a difference in fact and mainly for the better for the music I listen to where I crave clarity and good imaging. On the other hand, it is not as warm and cuddly sounding-if you get my meaning, though it still remains a relatively warm can. I can only imagine this is something to do with the extra power the Polaris delivers compared to my other kit. The most sensitive headphones I have are some in ear Soundmagic and Sony's which I use on the move with my portables. These appear to work fine with the Polaris without any background hiss, but I was concerned about the power going into these from the Polaris so I only tried them for a few minutes at lowish volume.
 The thing about sensitive headphones is that you can jumper in the resistor module provided (or make your own up and replace the one provided if you want to use a different resistance) to lower the input level and thus make more use of the volume pot rotation to avoid sudden shifts in volume from slight movements of the pot. Garage 1217 seem to think of everything!
  
 EDIT: Have now listened for an extended period with the SoundMagic E10 in ears and very well ordered sound, and no distortion or power overloading problem at realistic listening levels.  The sound was more neutral, with a wider and more atmospheric sound stage, than with my 02 opamp, which was more forward focused with less space and air around the instruments. 
 Interestingly, the vol pot position was exactly the same (between 9 and 10 o'clock) as the o2 opamp's (on low gain), for my music listening volume using the provided 10k module resistor and low gain setting on the Polaris. .


----------



## HOWIE13

leo888 said:


> Hi HOWIE13, mind elaborate a little on the HD650 and M50. These are cans I have. Hope you could give some thoughts if you have tried with sensitive iem.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 Sorry, forgot to mention the M50. in that earlier post. This sounds similar to usual, just a bit more control in its already excellent bass.


----------



## iancraig10

Solderdude uses an hd650 himself (along with others) but he filters it to provide better extension, lower sub bass and lessen then hump on the Senns.


----------



## xaval

Those amps look nice looking at garage website. It would be a plus to EU customers to have a shop open on this side of the continent due to import taxes that always take away some "value" off the products.
  
 It's obvious the absence of a proper case which would inevitably add to final cost, but with the added advantage of RF isolation. How silent do these designs reveal in this context?


----------



## Leo888

howie13 said:


> Sure. The HD650 becomes more agile and loses much of it's mid/low bloom and gains treble-it's clearer and seems faster, quite a difference in fact and mainly for the better for the music I listen to where I crave clarity and good imaging. On the other hand, it is not as warm and cuddly sounding-if you get my meaning, though it still remains a relatively warm can. I can only imagine this is something to do with the extra power the Polaris delivers compared to my other kit. The most sensitive headphones I have are some in ear Soundmagic and Sony's which I use on the move with my portables. These appear to work fine with the Polaris without any background hiss, but I was concerned about the power going into these from the Polaris so I only tried them for a few minutes at lowish volume.
> The thing about sensitive headphones is that you can jumper in the resistor module provided (or make your own up and replace the one provided if you want to use a different resistance) to lower the input level and thus make more use of the volume pot rotation to avoid sudden shifts in volume from slight movements of the pot. Garage 1217 seem to think of everything!




Thanks for the thoughts HOWIE13. Appreciate it. Very ibtetested with the Polaris. Looks great and your description seems like it will bring better clarity with the HD650.


----------



## HOWIE13

leo888 said:


> Thanks for the thoughts HOWIE13. Appreciate it. Very ibtetested with the Polaris. Looks great and your description seems like it will bring better clarity with the HD650.


 
 Good luck. Will be interested to learn how you get on.


----------



## iancraig10

xaval said:


> Those amps look nice looking at garage website. It would be a plus to EU customers to have a shop open on this side of the continent due to import taxes that always take away some "value" off the products.
> 
> It's obvious the absence of a proper case which would inevitably add to final cost, but with the added advantage of RF isolation. How silent do these designs reveal in this context?




The Polaris is a solid state Ember (not an improved ember), that simple. Tubes are the parts that are heavily susceptible to noise, so the Polaris is MUCH quieter in noisy environments than the Ember. In fact it is so quiet, you would think that it has a linear powering it. 

Polaris and Ember have the same power specs. Ember is just for the tube lover, Polaris for the person that does not want to fool with tubes.

Horses for courses really!!


----------



## xaval

I've given up discussing the virtues of tubes vs solid state. Some builds just sound better regardless. It's the man not the machine


----------



## iancraig10

Basically, it's just which you prefer. The Ember uses a tube and the Polaris is SS with the same spec and a sound that is tube like in timbre.

For me, the reliability thing is quite important, although I do like valves so the Polaris suits people like me, whereas others would perhaps prefer a tube amp.

Jeremy hasn't intended the Polaris to be a better version of the Ember.

The configurability of both is a really useful thing to have. The Polaris also offers adjustable bandwidth which can help to tame a shrill treble on a headphone.

The old standard for headphone sockets was 120 ohms output impedance way back actually. Not as close to zero as possible which is what is touted nowadays. Listen to a K701 on 120 ohms output impedance and it is less shrill. We also used to have tone controls which was a sudden taboo in the UK. Now I see many using equalisers.

Both offer close to zero, 35 ohms and 100 ohms (I think it is) output impedance so there's a slight effect on overall sound to be had via that route as well.

Horses for courses.


----------



## BillJGW

Thank you Howie and Ian for your impressions.
  
 Bill


----------



## money4me247

iancraig10 said:


> Basically, it's just which you prefer. The Ember uses a tube and the Polaris is SS with the same spec and a sound that is tube like in timbre. For me, the reliability thing is quite important, although I do like valves so the Polaris suits people like me, whereas others would perhaps prefer a tube amp. Jeremy hasn't intended the Polaris to be a better version of the Ember. The configurability of both is a really useful thing to have. The Polaris also offers adjustable bandwidth which can help to tame a shrill treble on a headphone. The old standard for headphone sockets was 120 ohms output impedance way back actually. Not as close to zero as possible which is what is touted nowadays. Listen to a K701 on 120 ohms output impedance and it is less shrill. We also used to have tone controls which was a sudden taboo in the UK. Now I see many using equalisers. Both offer close to zero, 35 ohms and 100 ohms (I think it is) output impedance so there's a slight effect on overall sound to be had via that route as well. Horses for courses.


 
  
  
 but ember is pricey so it HAS to be better!!!! =P


----------



## jaxz

Hi there! I'm considering between Polaris or Ember for the HE-500/4. Any feedback is welcome.


----------



## Textfeud

Anybody tried these with Grado RS1i?


----------



## Asr

iancraig10 said:


> ASR, did you try changing the bandwidth settings on the Polaris? It's a pretty fast amp and the top end would be affected by the change.


 
  
 I did, I mentioned that in the review. I left it on High bandwidth for maximum treble.


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> Anybody tried these with Grado RS1i?


 
  
 The Grado RS1i was great with the Project Sunrise. Would recommend looking in that route, unless your set on solid state.


----------



## Textfeud

asr said:


> I did, I mentioned that in the review. I left it on High bandwidth for maximum treble.


 
 Lol I've read your review late last night and didn't see it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm looking to mellow out the Grado RS1i a bit, tame the highs. Will the Polaris do that?


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> The Grado RS1i was great with the Project Sunrise. Would recommend looking in that route, unless your set on solid state.


 
 So you recommend tube Project over Polaris?


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> So you recommend tube Project over Polaris?


 

 I haven't got a Polaris yet so can't judge its sound and I've also since sold my RS1i... The output power of the Sunrise is more than enough for Grados, I quite liked the synergy between the two.


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> I haven't got a Polaris yet so can't judge its sound and I've also since sold my RS1i... The output power of the Sunrise is more than enough for Grados, I quite liked the synergy between the two.


 
 Thanks  I was looking to get Little Dot I+ but these Project amps look cool and specs are great. So now I'm debating it. Project amps are also future proof If I want to get a Planar again.


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> Thanks  I was looking to get Little Dot I+ but these Project amps look cool and specs are great. So now I'm debating it. Project amps are also future proof If I want to get a Planar again.


 

 Minuses about the Sunrise is the manual biasing. That can start to feel like a hassle later on. If you are thinking of planars I would choose to stick with the Ember or Polaris for their extra bit of headroom, though the Sunrise has plenty power as it is.


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> Minuses about the Sunrise is the manual biasing. That can start to feel like a hassle later on. If you are thinking of planars I would choose to stick with the Ember or Polaris for their extra bit of headroom, though the Sunrise has plenty power as it is.


 
 I like that the Polaris is pretty much plug and play. Don't really want to go down the path of tubes again although I still have a lot of tubes left so that's not really a concern. I just need to know that the Polaris will mellow the sound of the Grado a bit and tame the highs. If it can do that, it's my next amp. I think.


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> I like that the Polaris is pretty much plug and play. Don't really want to go down the path of tubes again although I still have a lot of tubes left so that's not really a concern. I just need to know that the Polaris will mellow the sound of the Grado a bit and tame the highs. If it can do that, it's my next amp. I think.


 

 I'm sure the bandwidth settings will do just that, might not tame upper mid peaks though. Garage1217 mentions that they've tweaked the Polaris to be valve amp like, I'm not quite sure what they mean by that? I've been able to make the Sunrise 2 sound pretty solid state like with certain tube combinations, so valve like sound associations certainly aren't cut and dried.


----------



## iancraig10

asr said:


> I did, I mentioned that in the review. I left it on High bandwidth for maximum treble.




Sorry, I missed it. I took it up with Solderdude (the guy who designed it) on my site ......


Did the reviewer get the version with the 'overactive' BW settings ?
Maybe that's the reason he may have found it lacking in 'transient response' ?
The amp is quite fast (100kHz - 0.5dB) at full power isn't exactly lacking...
On the 'medium' setting (with the early values) it was rolling off already.



Do you know whether yours has the 'overactive' BW settings? That could be why it sounds as Frans says, 'lacking' in transient response.

Figures quoted for frequency response;

Frequency range (High BW - 30 Ohm load) -3dB: 2Hz-290kHz
Frequency range (High BW - 30 Ohm load) -.5dB: 6Hz-100kHz

I know that Solderdude is very thorough and honest with his figures as well so they are most likely correct. They're not at all bad.

Jeremy is sending me a more recent one soon, so I'll listen out when I get it. I'll also compare with the Ember. To answer someone earlier, by 'tube" sound, I think Jeremy is talking about a warm sound rather than a 'glaring' top end. That doesn't necessarily mean rolled off. The SS version 'emulates' the sound of the tube version without a valve in place.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Sorry, I missed it. I took it up with Solderdude (the guy who designed it) on my site ......
> 
> 
> Did the reviewer get the version with the 'overactive' BW settings ?
> ...


 
 Are there two different versions of the Polaris?


----------



## mandrake50

http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris

See Solderdude's post close to the end of the first page, August 26, 2014


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> Are there two different versions of the Polaris?




There was an early board but extremely few went out. 99% were the correct board. When Solderdude saw ASR's comments about the speed and treble, he questioned which board ASR had since he considers it to be a pretty fast amp on DIYAH. Fact is, most people have the correct board since the early ones were around for such a short space of time before being updated. Jeremy has just posted this there.

The Polaris is supposed to sound like a tube amp. Therefore it may well 'sound' different to a pure SS and this could be perceived as a lack of speed or treble. The hd650 is similar. It goes very high; just not as loud as some others that often don't go as far up. Then some think that the hd650 has no extension.

If you aren't fond of a tube like sound, then it's perhaps not the amp for you. 

The thread on DIYAH discusses the amp in detail, with both the designer and the seller being members. They provide real support for the amp there as well.


----------



## HOWIE13

mandrake50 said:


> http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris
> 
> See Solderdude's post close to the end of the first page, August 26, 2014


 
 Thanks for pointing that post out- I hadn't focused on it.
 I find the settings on mine perfect for taking the brightness out of edgy violins and the mid position is perfect for this. I don't notice any change in the character of the rest of the sound.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> There was an early board but extremely few went out. 99% were the correct board. When Solderdude saw ASR's comments about the speed and treble, he questioned which board ASR had since he considers it to be a pretty fast amp on DIYAH. Fact is, most people have the correct board since the early ones were around for such a short space of time before being updated. Jeremy has just posted this there.
> 
> The Polaris is supposed to sound like a tube amp. Therefore it may well 'sound' different to a pure SS and this could be perceived as a lack of speed or treble. The hd650 is similar. It goes very high; just not as loud as some others that often don't go as far up. Then some think that the hd650 has no extension.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Ian, I now understand and actually the Polaris is perfect for my requirements. I love tube sound and the Polaris achieves this with no fuss or bother. However, I suspect at some point I will miss the fun of tube rolling!


----------



## HOWIE13

howie13 said:


> Thanks for pointing that post out- I hadn't focused on it.
> I find the settings on mine perfect for taking the brightness out of edgy violins and the mid position is perfect for this. I don't notice any change in the character of the rest of the sound.


 
 Sorry if this is a stupid question but I am not very electronically minded. On the High BW setting are the two versions identical for sound?


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question but I am not very electronically minded. On the High BW setting are the two versions identical for sound?




That's what I can find out when Jeremy sends me a Polaris to compare!!

Solderdude's original post on DIYAH: (it's a good place to go if you want to read what's going on (not that I'm biased or anything))  (being admin there!!) 


The first change has to do with the start-up relay which is now faster.
This can be faster as there is no tube that needs to warm up.
For this change (the start up delay becomes around 2 seconds) 2 bleeder resistors (R5) need to be lowered in value.
This is possible because the output stage has short-circuit protection limiting the current.
so.... R5 -> 33 Ohm (was 330 Ohm)

To make the relay engage faster the timing is altered by changing R4.
So .... R4 -> 56k (was 150k)

The difficult part will be mounting the resistors after you removed the old ones.
The reason for this is the thick PCB that makes it very hard to remove the solder inside the through hole metallization in the pads that are connected to the ground plane.
ONLY remove these resistors (R4 and R5's) if you are experienced in de-soldering.
Those with a 0.7mm drill can also drill the pad open again (is what I do in such cases)

As these parts aren't in the audio path one can also mount 'non-audiophile' resistors but as it is open frame similar DALE type resistors may look nicer.

BUT there is another way...
As the values become smaller you can also mount small resistors in parallel on the bottom of the PCB (is what I did) and you can always paint them black with a dab of paint if you want to conceal them.

R4 needs 82k in parallel to the 150k that is already in there. This will give 53k which is just as good as 56k in this case.
Both R5's need a 39 Ohm resistor in parallel to the 330 Ohm that is already in there. This will give 35 Ohm which is just as good as 33 in this case.

as a result the 'waiting time' is now around 2 seconds. Only perform this mod if you feel it is a worthwhile improvement.

Another thing I changed is the bandwidth setting.
Jeremy wanted to use the bandwidth to lower treble on treble happy headphones and thus made the low and medium bandwidth setting a bit too much (IMO)
In the Low setting (where C10 is 820pF) the upper frequency (-3dB) is 12kHz. The medium bandwidth (-3dB) is around 17kHz 

My intention (as in the CHAmp design) is to have 3 bandwidth settings that can be selected but do not interfere with the sound that much.

The high BW setting is for those that do not want any phase shifts nor roll off in the audible band and far outside of it.
Perfect for analog sources and DAC's with 'fast' or 'steep' digital filter settings and have proper HF audio filtering

The mid BW setting is for those that may have (oversampling) NOS DAC's or do not feel they need 300kHz bandwidth. 
High bandwidths can (in some rare cases) have a negative influence on the sound when aliasing with HF garbage is present. 
In this setting there is no roll-off in the treble (flat within 0.5dB) up to 20khz and the (very gentle 6dB/oct) slope is -3dB at 35khz which is wider than most headphones and than most recordings actually have.
A recommended setting when using NOS DAC's.

The low BW setting is now set at 20kHz (-3dB) and has a very similar roll-off as NOS DAC's show at 44.1/48kHz files. 
Some like the gentle roll-off those DAC's have and the Polaris emulates (well almost) this behaviour when using 'faster' DAC's 
It will not remove brightness from headphones but can add some slight warmth to music while retaining frequency extension.

To create the changes to the values/effects I wrote above 4 capacitors have to be replaced.
As these caps have 1 pad grounded a similar level of difficulty (in desoldering) occurs as above.
Alas the values have to become smaller and thus paralleling is not possible.

If you want these changes then the options are to desolder the caps (C10's and RC11's) next to the BW jumpers and remove the solder (or drill out the holes with 0.7mm drill).
Another option is to cut-away the caps (and thus leave the pins in the PCB).
You can then solder the new caps on the top side OR bottom side of the PCB on the pads.

C10's -> 470pF (was 820pF)
C11's -> 270pF (was 330pF) 
In case of C11 (the difference with 270pF isn't that big) you can opt to only replace the 820pF C10 and leave C11 as it was.

Again these mods are only needed IF you think the BW settings are limiting too audible.
For those having some bright headphones and use the low BW setting to tame the treble (is what Jeremy wanted) you can skip this mod.

This is only needed for Polaris amps sold before Sept 2014. 
Later amps are probably already shipping with the updated values (BW and start-up time) and IF you feel it is needed.

Also NOTE:
The manual dated aug 3 on the download page has INCORRECT values for C10, C11, R4 and R5.
Please check for the latest manual date

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris#ixzz3EiwMIXya


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> Thanks for pointing that post out- I hadn't focused on it.
> I find the settings on mine perfect for taking the brightness out of edgy violins and the mid position is perfect for this. I don't notice any change in the character of the rest of the sound.




I often have problems with string timbre on headphones. Many are edgy and produce more screech than tone. Live strings are silky sounding but headphones can make them quite aggressive. Many headphone people see this as 'detail' but to me, it's nails ona blackboard!!!


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> I often have problems with string timbre on headphones. Many are edgy and produce more screech than tone. Live strings are silky sounding but headphones can make them quite aggressive. Many headphone people see this as 'detail' but to me, it's nails ona blackboard!!!


 
 Thanks for all your help with the change of BW'S.and the info you copied for me in the other post you just sent. 
 You know, I think the problem is that we are old enough to remember how excellent, clear sound could be created without resorting to enhancing treble or reducing bass. Nowadays it's just accepted by most manufacturers (Garage1217 excepted, of course) that you have to put up with migrainous treble to gain clarity!


----------



## iancraig10

It seems that many see hi Fi as having a 'steely, revealing' top end which makes it sound hi Fi. My favourite headphone is really quite unremarkable sounding. Nothing in particular stands out, so no big fat bass and no edgy treble. Which for some would just seem bland. It's a modded t40 with an active filter to extend the treble, made by Solderdude. However, headphones like this may not perhaps sell so well in a market where many buy on the spur of the moment. The idea then is to impress as quickly as possible.

A bit like early pop records that were only about 3 minutes long due to the constraints of the format. The music had to impress quickly!!

Now, I think a certain sound is often expected from headphones. Mind you, most modern amps are pretty flat nowadays tbh and amazingly quiet.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> It seems that many see hi Fi as having a 'steely, revealing' top end which makes it sound hi Fi. My favourite headphone is really quite unremarkable sounding. Nothing in particular stands out, so no big fat bass and no edgy treble. Which for some would just seem bland. It's a modded t40 with an active filter to extend the treble, made by Solderdude. However, headphones like this may not perhaps sell so well in a market where many buy on the spur of the moment. The idea then is to impress as quickly as possible.
> 
> A bit like early pop records that were only about 3 minutes long due to the constraints of the format. The music had to impress quickly!!
> 
> Now, I think a certain sound is often expected from headphones. Mind you, most modern amps are pretty flat nowadays tbh and amazingly quiet.


 
 It makes me cringe sometimes when people say how wonderful a headphone is because they can hear every single instrument and note being played. When composers write a chord they usually don't want every single note to be heard-they write a chord to make an harmonious, homogenous sound -that's the sound they are thinking about-not an artificially clear, bright noise with each instrument separate from each other.
 There, I feel better now.  Time for a wee dram then back to Polaris and Schubert!


----------



## Textfeud

Just ordered mine to go with Grado RS1i and IFI Nano IDSD. Can't wait!


----------



## iancraig10

I'm waiting for one as well!! It has a long way to travel though!!!!


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> I'm waiting for one as well!! It has a long way to travel though!!!!


 
 Mine too. Both Europe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not looking forward to the custom fees though haha.


----------



## iancraig10

I'm claiming back on tax!!

I must check to see if Javier is making them using kits already in Europe on DIYAH. I'll ask him. That would mean the import tax has gone.


----------



## Drrizzt

I've been so lucky on this matter, the postman totally forgot to ask me to pay 40€ for the import taxes. Heheheh.


----------



## Textfeud

drrizzt said:


> I've been so lucky on this matter, the postman totally forgot to ask me to pay 40€ for the import taxes. Heheheh.


 
 LOL! That's awesome. Here you need to pay cash and they don't have change. Which is pretty awkward since you never know how much it will be exactly.


----------



## Drrizzt

The same here.
  
 It was in the morning, the man was still sleepy. I just hope he didn't loses his job because of the polaris ordering from me 
  
  
 Anyway, I would have liked it to have even more distorted harmonics to bring out more of this lively and lovey tube sound. But it's just the never satisfyed side of the meloman in me who is speaking here. I slightly prefer the sunrise for live recordings.


----------



## Textfeud

drrizzt said:


> The same here.
> 
> It was in the morning, the man was still sleepy. I just hope he didn't loses his job because of the polaris ordering from me
> 
> ...


 
 I think these kind of mistakes happen. Hope it didn't come out of his paycheck either. I know that I would have to pay roughly 35-40 euro, so I'll just have some change laying around. 
  
 I kinda picked the Project Polaris for a reason. It has tube like sound without the negatives of tube amps. It will also save me a lot of time buying tubes, let alone money haha.


----------



## ericr

I'm a *very* happy Project Ember and thanks to another HF member had a couple of days to audition the Polaris about a month ago.  Here my thoughts I shared with him back then.
  
 "The family resemblance in the sound signatures of the Polaris and Ember is strong - with the Ember winning out by a small margin - mostly in soundstage depth and air/realism (and maybe at the expense of a bit of bass tightness). Pretty impressive considering the Ember was running my favorite tube*. The difference was easier to discern on the V6-Stage than the HE-560 (no surprise as the 1964's render the soundstage more accurately)."

       *Westinghouse Carbon Plate 12UA7A (see tubemaze.info for details).
  
 Interestingly, he kept the Polaris and sold his Ember.  For me the simplicity of the Polaris was quite attractive, but it couldn't quite match the Ember.  Both sound fantastic.
  
 FWIW, I mostly drive my Ember with an Uber Bifrost (2nd Gen).
  
 As a reference to another popular amp out there, I also own a the Asgard 2 which just sits around cold in the box (I need to get around to selling it).  Both the Ember and Polaris are a notch above it.
  
 Lastly, to my ears the Ember and Polaris are quite fast and responsive (I consider their speed to be one of their strengths).
  
  
  
 -Eric


----------



## BillJGW

I have a question for anyone regarding the bandwidth selectors.  Are they always in effect or is there one position where they are not?  Thanks.


----------



## HOWIE13

billjgw said:


> I have a question for anyone regarding the bandwidth selectors.  Are they always in effect or is there one position where they are not?  Thanks.


 
 That is exactly what I would like to know.
 If there is no position when they are 'off' then, sound wise, there may be two different Polaris versions to consider now, unless the 'high' position is identical in both?  
 Are there graphs for the later version, as the Polaris manual on the website still has the original graphs (I think)?
 Thanks.


----------



## Asr

textfeud said:


> Lol I've read your review late last night and didn't see it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Med and Low bandwidth settings are one way to reduce the treble quantity if you really want to. (So will increasing the output resistance, but you probably don't want to do that.) But the optimal way to reduce treble on almost any Grado headphone is to get flat pads for it. (In fact, there have been people in the past who used to swear by flat pads for the RS1.) Bowl pads accentuate treble.
  


billjgw said:


> I have a question for anyone regarding the bandwidth selectors.  Are they always in effect or is there one position where they are not?  Thanks.


 
  
 The bandwidth setting is always in effect, whether Low, Med, or High. There's no "off" position.


----------



## HOWIE13

asr said:


> The Med and Low bandwidth settings are one way to reduce the treble quantity if you really want to. (So will increasing the output resistance, but you probably don't want to do that.) But the optimal way to reduce treble on almost any Grado headphone is to get flat pads for it. (In fact, there have been people in the past who used to swear by flat pads for the RS1.) Bowl pads accentuate treble.
> 
> 
> The bandwidth setting is always in effect, whether Low, Med, or High. There's no "off" position.


 
 Thanks for clarifying that. Do you think there would be any audible difference between the two different 'high' postions in each of the two versions?
 If there is then we have two different sounding amplifiers, which will make comparisons with other amps more difficult as we would have to qualify any comparisons by stating which Polaris version we were using.


----------



## BillJGW

asr said:


> The bandwidth setting is always in effect, whether Low, Med, or High. There's no "off" position.


 
 Thanks asr.  That kind of surprises me though.  One would think having an "off" position would make some sort of sense for those who want to hear what the amp is capable of just on its own, if you catch my meaning.  Not to be too harsh, but this is a bit of a negative for me in an otherwise very positive product.


----------



## mandrake50

billjgw said:


> Thanks asr.  That kind of surprises me though.  One would think having an "off" position would make some sort of sense for those who want to hear what the amp is capable of just on its own, if you catch my meaning.  Not to be too harsh, but this is a bit of a negative for me in an otherwise very positive product.




Depending on perspective the quote from ASR that the bandwidth settings are always in effect is not true. Yes you have to have the jumper in one of the positions, but the high setting on any of the 1.1 boards should be "wide open" limited only by the response of the amp itself. My interpretation of this is that all but a few of the amps with the version 1 boards should be the same on the high bandwidth setting.
Here is a quote from Jeremy:

- Rev 1.1 board is what the mass majority of Polaris owners have. It has more aggressive bandwidth settings with mid and low bandwidth being more aggressive only. *HIGH bandwidth is IDENTICAL* to what ASR used in his review and is *full bandwidth without any roll-off *unless (_other bandwidths are_) selected. Just clearing that up.

Then Frans wrote:
"In my original design there were 3 BW's one that is limited by (_only_) the bandwidth of the output stage itself (so max, or high BW)..."

"Jeremy caught that and made the R1.1 BUT as he also found there was no audible difference between high and mid and the low setting is just slightly audible so Jeremy increased the cap values effectively making the 'mid' setting the intended 'low' setting and the 'low setting' was rolled off much earlier and very audible."

"The high BW setting on these amps IS as intended so only the 'mid' and 'low' settings filter a bit more as intended by me. 
He found this setting to remove the edge from one of his 'overly bright' headphones so went with this setting.
This is what Jeremy calls 'aggressive' setting as it filters a bit more than I intended."

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris#ixzz3EoDA5KGQ

In short, at least with the version 1.1 boards, there should be no difference in response using the high bandwidth setting between different examples other than the expected variability due to tolerances.


----------



## BillJGW

Well, I feel better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Thanks, Mandrake.


----------



## HOWIE13

billjgw said:


> Well, I feel better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, thanks for clarifying that as well, Mandrake. I also heard similar from Frans earlier today.
 I do find the low setting useful for some of my poorly digitally remastered analogue classical recordings from the 60-70ties, especially some EMI stuff. With the wide dynamics of classical some of them have been ruined in the remastering process compared to the original LP.
 I used to equalise but I find the Polaris BW changes don't affect the surrounding frequencies as equalisers can, so the rest of the sound remains the same, just the harsh top end goes away.


----------



## ericr

^^^ Handy feature. I wonder if it would get me listening to some of my poorly recorded music again.


----------



## iancraig10

For info regarding the bandwidth settings. The widest bandwidth setting is (in effect) 'off'.

Here are the effects of using it:






Green - high
Orange - mid
Red - low

This is Rev 1.1 (30 ohms output impedance)

High settings take the FR way beyond the threshold of hearing.

Not to mention the output impedance settings as well.


----------



## mandrake50

Graph is for which configuration, the original from configuration from Jeremy, or (newer) changed per Frans' thoughts?


----------



## HOWIE13

mandrake50 said:


> Graph is for which configuration, the original from configuration from Jeremy, or (newer) changed per Frans' thoughts?


 
 Probably Jeremy's original as I don't think the Mid setting falls off as far with Frans' more recent changes.
 It would be good to compare the two graphs as I find it easier to conceptualise that way.
 However, Ian's graph does make the point that this High setting would not interfere with the audible native sound which is most reassuring.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Wait, so I have one of the first units built and probably have v1. 

So the differences are longer wait time on the relay and less drop off on the bandwidth switch between the selections? Do I have that right?


----------



## iancraig10

soundsgoodtome said:


> Wait, so I have one of the first units built and probably have v1.
> 
> So the differences are longer wait time on the relay and less drop off on the bandwidth switch between the selections? Do I have that right?




Very few v1 boards are out. The graph is for v1.1 with (I think) 30 ohms output impedance. V1.1 is the one that ships now and is the one that I'll be listening to next week. 

You know, you have me thinking. I thought switch on time had been lowered to something like 2 seconds on v1.1 and was slightly longer on v1. Does the board have a marking on it?

If you check DIYAH, Frans has put a full explanation there. We're not talking anything massive in changes here with the BW settings.

Someone earlier posted a really relevant post where they referenced an earlier message from Frans that details the 1.1 changes and I thought he had lowered the time. Now I'll be timing it for two seconds!!!


----------



## micmacmo

I think there are actually three versions of the Project Polaris. The rare v1.0, which is the version that went to some early adopters. There's version v1.1, which was the recent production model (which is graphed in iancraig10's post above). And now a new version. Fran's explains the differences, including an additional graph of the FR of the new version, in this post on DIYAH.
  
 EDIT:
 BTW, my board is marked PROJECT POLARIS R1.0 by the standoff beside the input RCA jacks. My turn-on time is about 8 seconds. I'm satisfied with my amp, regardless of version #.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, that third one is less rolled down and so will sound slightly more aggressive on the medium and lower bandwidth settings but the very same on high, which is what most seem to use in any case.

Below 1kHz is exactly the same . It's not released yet though.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Very few v1 boards are out. The graph is for v1.1 with (I think) 30 ohms output impedance. V1.1 is the one that ships now and is the one that I'll be listening to next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have v1.1 and the switch on time is 7 seconds. That's fine for me.


----------



## iancraig10

Oh ok. Then maybe I read it where Frans was suggesting changing some capacitor values somewhere on DIYAH.

I think he mentions 2 seconds somewhere. Comparatively quite a lot, but not a lot in reality!! I'll time mine when it arrives.

Aha ... Found it ......





I changed a few values in Polaris:
The first change has to do with the start-up relay which is now faster.
This can be faster as there is no tube that needs to warm up.
For this change (the start up delay becomes around 2 seconds) 2 bleeder resistors (R5) need to be lowered in value.
This is possible because the output stage has short-circuit protection limiting the current.
so.... R5 -> 33 Ohm (was 330 Ohm)

To make the relay engage faster the timing is altered by changing R4.
So .... R4 -> 56k (was 150k)

The difficult part will be mounting the resistors after you removed the old ones.
The reason for this is the thick PCB that makes it very hard to remove the solder inside the through hole metallization in the pads that are connected to the ground plane.
ONLY remove these resistors (R4 and R5's) if you are experienced in de-soldering.
Those with a 0.7mm drill can also drill the pad open again (is what I do in such cases)

As these parts aren't in the audio path one can also mount 'non-audiophile' resistors but as it is open frame similar DALE type resistors may look nicer.

BUT there is another way...
As the values become smaller you can also mount small resistors in parallel on the bottom of the PCB (is what I did) and you can always paint them black with a dab of paint if you want to conceal them.

R4 needs 82k in parallel to the 150k that is already in there. This will give 53k which is just as good as 56k in this case.
Both R5's need a 39 Ohm resistor in parallel to the 330 Ohm that is already in there. This will give 35 Ohm which is just as good as 33 in this case.

as a result the 'waiting time' is now around 2 seconds. Only perform this mod if you feel it is a worthwhile improvement.

Another thing I changed is the bandwidth setting.
Jeremy wanted to use the bandwidth to lower treble on treble happy headphones and thus made the low and medium bandwidth setting a bit too much (IMO)
In the Low setting (where C10 is 820pF) the upper frequency (-3dB) is 12kHz. The medium bandwidth (-3dB) is around 17kHz 

My intention (as in the CHAmp design) is to have 3 bandwidth settings that can be selected but do not interfere with the sound that much.

The high BW setting is for those that do not want any phase shifts nor roll off in the audible band and far outside of it.
Perfect for analog sources and DAC's with 'fast' or 'steep' digital filter settings and have proper HF audio filtering

The mid BW setting is for those that may have (oversampling) NOS DAC's or do not feel they need 300kHz bandwidth. 
High bandwidths can (in some rare cases) have a negative influence on the sound when aliasing with HF garbage is present. 
In this setting there is no roll-off in the treble (flat within 0.5dB) up to 20khz and the (very gentle 6dB/oct) slope is -3dB at 35khz which is wider than most headphones and than most recordings actually have.
A recommended setting when using NOS DAC's.

The low BW setting is now set at 20kHz (-3dB) and has a very similar roll-off as NOS DAC's show at 44.1/48kHz files. 
Some like the gentle roll-off those DAC's have and the Polaris emulates (well almost) this behaviour when using 'faster' DAC's 
It will not remove brightness from headphones but can add some slight warmth to music while retaining frequency extension.

To create the changes to the values/effects I wrote above 4 capacitors have to be replaced.
As these caps have 1 pad grounded a similar level of difficulty (in desoldering) occurs as above.
Alas the values have to become smaller and thus paralleling is not possible.

If you want these changes then the options are to desolder the caps (C10's and RC11's) next to the BW jumpers and remove the solder (or drill out the holes with 0.7mm drill).
Another option is to cut-away the caps (and thus leave the pins in the PCB).
You can then solder the new caps on the top side OR bottom side of the PCB on the pads.

C10's -> 470pF (was 820pF)
C11's -> 270pF (was 330pF) 
In case of C11 (the difference with 270pF isn't that big) you can opt to only replace the 820pF C10 and leave C11 as it was.

Again these mods are only needed IF you think the BW settings are limiting too audible.
For those having some bright headphones and use the low BW setting to tame the treble (is what Jeremy wanted) you can skip this mod.

This is only needed for Polaris amps sold before Sept 2014. 
Later amps are probably already shipping with the updated values (BW and start-up time) and IF you feel it is needed.

Also NOTE:
The manual dated aug 3 on the download page has INCORRECT values for C10, C11, R4 and R5.
Please check for the latest manual date

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris#ixzz3EpoMXUTd
26th August from Solderdude.


----------



## mandrake50

I had links to the thread a few posts ago... FWIW


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Unless the serial numbers for the v1.0 is single digit only, I believe to have one. This was built with the first batches by Jeremy.
  
 Quote:


soundsgoodtome said:


> Look what just arrived! Looking forward to the HE4 and HE560 sessions soon! Going to give it 3 days of run time before any impressions.


----------



## BillJGW

This is all great info!  I 'm a visual person so it's great to see all of this presented in graphs.  Thanks Ian and micmacmo (and solderdude on diyah).  Two big thumbs up!


----------



## dpump

It appears there were more than a 'handful' of v1.0 amps sold. My SN# is 0016 and the board says Revision 1.0. Does the v1.1 board say Revision 1.1, or are there boards that say 1.0 but are really 1.1? Don't think so but just wanted to ask.I tend to think anyone who has a v1.0 should be able to exchange it for a v1.1 at no charge if they want, since it was a design mistake, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## mandrake50

Why not email Jeremy and ask? I think that you will find him very easy to deal with. He has always made things right with me when there was something I needed. Without asking first, you don't know whether he might just do that exchange.
  
 BTW the board in my Polaris is marked 1.1. It is serial number 0004.


----------



## iancraig10

It does look nice on that photo. Howie13,I'll take a look at the board when mine arrives to see what is written on it . I know that mine will be 1.1 Jeremy confirmed so, when he sent it. I'll also time the switch on.


----------



## HOWIE13

Hi Ian,
 I was able, for the first time, last night to reproduce Peter Pears' pearly voice, just as I remember it from a live performance 50 odd years ago, listening to a poorly digitally remastered CD I have never been able to enjoy before because of its vocal brightness and harshness. I found the 'Low' BW setting was the best-so I am very happy with my v1.1.
 I will be very interested to learn of your own experiences-I don't find a 7 second start delay any problem-it takes me at least that long to select the correct track and press the play button on the remote!


----------



## iancraig10

Peter Grimes with him singing is a classic. I saw him live on many occasions in his home town. Very nice man and good old Benjamin. Great characters.

 There actually was just a handful of v1's that went out. On the chassis, the serial numbers were not in order from the laser cutter so having SN0016 for example does not mean 16 went out  

That is why some with say 0004 have 1.1. All early boards were pulled the second that Jeremy realized what happened. If someone requests, He has no problem exchanging a PCB for a 1.1.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Peter Grimes with him singing is a classic. I saw him live on many occasions in his home town. Very nice man and good old Benjamin. Great characters.
> 
> There actually was just a handful of v1's that went out. On the chassis, the serial numbers were not in order from the laser cutter so having SN0016 for example does not mean 16 went out
> 
> ...


 
 Great stuff, Ian.
 One of my deep regrets is never having been to Aldeburgh. What a pair they were. They don't make them like that anymore.
 Thank goodness we have Garage 1217 to allow us to enjoy the memory of some of those wonderful performances.


----------



## iancraig10

Absolutely!! There are some real geniuses out there who are really developing the world of headphones and amps into something really special.


----------



## flemito

Hello, first time poster here.
 Have any of you tried the project polaris/ember with the Sennheiser HD 800's?.
 Would you recommend such a pairing?, How would you describe the sound?, How much does the sound changes with the BW selector modifier?.


----------



## Textfeud

flemito said:


> Hello, first time poster here.
> Have any of you tried the project polaris/ember with the Sennheiser HD 800's?.
> Would you recommend such a pairing?, How would you describe the sound?, How much does the sound changes with the BW selector modifier?.


 
 Check the Ember thread. I'm sure people tried them with the HD800.


----------



## Amish

Mine is a Rev 1.0 with SN: 0008
  
 I'm more than happy with it. In fact if anyone is at the San Diego meet in November you can hear the Polaris and Ember side by side.


----------



## YtseJamer

That'd be great to get more feedback about the Polaris with the HiFiMAN HE-560's.


----------



## Textfeud

ytsejamer said:


> That'd be great to get more feedback about the Polaris with the HiFiMAN HE-560's.


 
 I agree. These will probably be my next headphone purchase down the line.


----------



## YtseJamer

textfeud said:


> I agree. These will probably be my next headphone purchase down the line.


 
  
 How do you like the sound of your RS-1i with the Polaris ?


----------



## Textfeud

ytsejamer said:


> How do you like the sound of your RS-1i with the Polaris ?


 
 Hoping to receive my Polaris somewhere next week. Will let you know as soon as I receive them!


----------



## YtseJamer

textfeud said:


> Hoping to receive my Polaris somewhere next week. Will let you know as soon as I receive them!


 
  
 Alright thanks


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

The 560 and Polaris pair very well. I did a comparison between the ember and Polaris with the 560 in the first half of this thread somewhere (I'm on my mobile otherwise I'd point which page).


----------



## ericr

The HE-560 is a fantastic match for the Polaris (and Ember) - you'll appreciate the synergy they have.


----------



## YtseJamer

Thanks guys!


----------



## SoAmusing777

I just got this, and actually have no idea about all the settings, lol. I don't know what's best for my Paradox Slants, nor the pairing with my Stoner Acoustics UD120 Dac :O


----------



## micmacmo

soamusing777 said:


> I just got this, and actually have no idea about all the settings, lol. I don't know what's best for my Paradox Slants, nor the pairing with my Stoner Acoustics UD120 Dac :O


 

 One of the beautifies of the Polaris is that you can change all the settings — except the gain — on the fly. So you can A/B test the different settings instantly. It makes finding your preferences much easier than if you had to turn-off the amp with every setting change.


----------



## SoAmusing777

micmacmo said:


> One of the beautifies of the Polaris is that you can change all the settings — except the gain — on the fly. So you can A/B test the different settings instantly. It makes finding your preferences much easier than if you had to turn-off the amp with every setting change.


 

 Sweet, but what are the settings in the back right near the input? I don't even know what the two of those are.


----------



## mandrake50

soamusing777 said:


> Sweet, but what are the settings in the back right near the input? I don't even know what the two of those are.




If you write to Jeremy he will send you the manual in PDF format.
I don't have mine in front of me now... but I do recall it is a valuable document to have around.


----------



## SoAmusing777

mandrake50 said:


> If you write to Jeremy he will send you the manual in PDF format.
> I don't have mine in front of me now... but I do recall it is a valuable document to have around.


 

 I went over the manual. I must have missed it. I wish I could just find out why my DAC is distorting the sound..


----------



## micmacmo

Are you sure it's the DAC? (Can you reproduce the problem by hooking the Polaris up to another source (CD player, iPod, Sansa, etc)?)


----------



## SoAmusing777

micmacmo said:


> Are you sure it's the DAC? (Can you reproduce the problem by hooking the Polaris up to another source (CD player, iPod, Sansa, etc)?)


 

 Nah, it's the DAC. Installed the driver/application on windows and runs just fine. Put it on Linux however, and it's a no go. I mean, you're not suppose to hook directly into the DAC anyway, but I put it with my amp and still distortion. Dunno how to get rid of it.


----------



## Textfeud

Getting my Polaris tomorrow, can't wait


----------



## mandrake50

C?


soamusing777 said:


> I went over the manual. I must have missed it. I wish I could just find out why my DAC is distorting the sound..


 

 Page 5 Polaris Assembly guide.
 "Adjustable input attenuation jumpers"
  
 Page 11
 "
 INPUT ATTENUATION CAN BE CHANGED VIA THE JUMPER TABS AT
 THE BACK, RIGHT HAND CORNER OF THE AMPLIFIER. DEFAULT
 SETTING IS *WITH *ATTENUATION MODULE.
 CUSTOM ATTENUATION MODULES CAN BE EASILY CREATED LOWER
 LEVELS OVERALL. THIS CAN BE VERY USEFUL FOR SUPER
 SENSITIVE HEADPHONES SUCH AS IEM’S."


----------



## Textfeud

Anyone who has a Grado (RS1i) they use with Polaris? Mind sharing your settings? Right now I'm getting a bit of weird bass and I have to put the volume know almost to the max for loud listening.


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> Anyone who has a Grado (RS1i) they use with Polaris? Mind sharing your settings? Right now I'm getting a bit of weird bass and I have to put the volume know almost to the max for loud listening.


 
  
 Output impedance set to 1 ohm?


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> Output impedance set to 1 ohm?


 
 No idea, which setting is that :-O


----------



## daerron

Check the manual on the CD that would've shipped with your amplifier. Couldn't find one on their website. The Sunrise 2 had a jumper on the side that you had to set.


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> Check the manual on the CD that would've shipped with your amplifier. Couldn't find one on their website. The Sunrise 2 had a jumper on the side that you had to set.


 
 Got a Macbook Air, so can't use that


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> Got a Macbook Air, so can't use that


 
  
 As a Macbook Pro owner I share your pain.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I see on their site the jumpers are on both sides and labelled, High R, Mid R and Low R. Are they both on Low R?


----------



## Textfeud

daerron said:


> As a Macbook Pro owner I share your pain..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Had them on Mid R, now put them on Low R and that made a difference volume wise. Bass wise it's still too much for me (and I once started as a bass head lol). How can I change that?


----------



## daerron

textfeud said:


> Had them on Mid R, now put them on Low R and that made a difference volume wise. Bass wise it's still too much for me (and I once started as a bass head lol). How can I change that?


 
  
 If you just received it, let the amp settle down a bit. Just play a bit of music through it for a couple of hours and then listen again. Doesn't look like the bandwidth settings change the roll off in the bass, like with the highs?


----------



## Textfeud

Thanks, will do!


----------



## Textfeud

Found the right settings and first impressions are good. Doesn't sound typical solid state but not typical tube amp either. It's sort of in between, which is nice. My ears still needs to adjust to the bass. Haven't heard impactful bass since the HE-500 with Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It's fast too!


----------



## daerron

Glad to hear you got it sorted and thanks for the impressions! Happy listening!


----------



## iancraig10

textfeud said:


> Found the right settings and first impressions are good. Doesn't sound typical solid state but not typical tube amp either. It's sort of in between, which is nice. My ears still needs to adjust to the bass. Haven't heard impactful bass since the HE-500 with Lyr. :basshead:
> 
> It's fast too!




Mine has just arrived now and that's how I felt on first listen. Not quite a tube sound and not an SS sound. It has a very healthy bass sound.

I quickly played around with different configurations and the sound is very easily altered. Different sounding to the Ember, but then the tube must be contributing to the Ember sound as well.

Lots of impact. The bandwidth settings are not as huge as I thought they would be. The effect is more 'rounded' at the top when you lower the bandwidth and the bass seems bigger!! (Although it hasn't altered - it's an aural thing were the treble has rolled down so the bass seems comparatively bigger)

Just a quick listen so far but I do like its sound a lot. It is very quick hitting in the bass and the profile is really low too. That surprised me as well. Lovely looking amp.


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> Mine has just arrived now and that's how I felt on first listen. Not quite a tube sound and not an SS sound. It has a very healthy bass sound.
> 
> I quickly played around with different configurations and the sound is very easily altered. Different sounding to the Ember, but then the tube must be contributing to the Ember sound as well.
> 
> ...


 
 At the first listen I was really really worried, but those were just the settings. With Grado RS1i gain on low and jumpers on low is by far the best (volume knob at around 2 o'clock for loud listening). I have the bandwith on high, bass gets a bit too much for my taste otherwise. The difference is little like you said though. 
  
 I like the sound a lot too. Very impactful, clean and fast. So far a keeper for me. And yeah, the looks.. Just WOW.


----------



## iancraig10

Someone spoke about switch on time earlier. Mine takes 7 seconds and is a v1.1 with aggressive settings on BW.

Bass does have a different quality to the Ember. It's not quite as 'fruity' but it is actually fuller sounding than many SS amps. Almost like a hybrid!! I guess the lack of tube harmonics gives the bass a different kind of sound which is why I'm finding it quite different. I was using a Orange 'globe' and also a 6n23 eb which gives a big bass to the Ember.

It has sure pointed out to me how tubes sound different in the bass.

Textfeud, I think it is a matter of getting a configuration that you like. I think you'd need to live with one sound for a while and then move one of the jumper settings so that you notice more, or else,you could end up forever going from one setting to another.

What surprised me is that the roll off on low bandwidth looks quite severe I the graph, but with my headphones, it goes a bit rounder.

It's very nice with the k612. Then again, I like the Ember as well. I a more aware of the tube colourations now though.


----------



## iancraig10

A quick comment on switch on time. New amps switch on at 2 - 3 seconds. There has been a minor mod to the switch on circuit. Mine is the demo one that ASR tried so is still set at 7 seconds.

It's not a big deal really since by the time you get your headphone on your head, 7 seconds easily goes by. (Before anyone wants a modded board for 2 seconds!!)

I don't know whether anyone else has both the Ember and Polaris. I'm very lucky to have both here. There are slight differences in the bass, I think. The Ember (with 6n 23 eb tubes) has a fatter bass, but I think that it's made up with the added harmonics of tubes. This has a similar bass but not with such a bloom as the Ember.

If you think that the Polaris is bassy, then the Ember wouldn't suit you perhaps?

The Ember really does have a tube sound whereas the Polaris is warm, with a resemblance, but imo, a cleaner bass than tube amps. It's really a matter of preference imo. I find it hard to prefer one to the other.

I really like the cleanness of the Polaris but I also like the 'dirty' sound of a tube!!! The Polaris isn't typical of SS amps though. It has a gorgeous warmth which provides really fatigue free listening. I can't stop listening actually. I'm kind of attracted to its clean sound (like a mouth wash) but it's fun bass which for me is dead right. 

It has a great combination of configurations where you can tweak the output impedance which can raise bass slightly and lower the treble on some headphones, while also altering the bandwidth, which gives quite a lot of options.

If I had to lose one, I don't know what I'd do tbh. Swings and roundabouts. At the moment, the newness of the Polaris is really lovely but there is a cleaner feel to it that the Ember doesn't quite give.

Compared to other SS amps that I have though, it is less glaring and more relaxing to listen to, with a real sense of weight and a hint of tube in the sound .........


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

It seems we hear the two amps the same. When I had both I had a schiit sys let me a/b between the two and both amps allowed me to wow in their own way. However with the HE560 being a very fast and tight headphone, being able to hear details in the bass with the Polaris while keeping warmth was enough to keep the Polaris over the Ember. It was a close fight and if I had a headphone during the a/b that bloomed the bass I may have chosen the ember. 

The next challenge for the Polaris is an A/B with a Matrix M-stage, which is also warm in nature while being SS. If I can find the time to sit down several hours..


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

^ ^ ^ 





iancraig10 said:


> A quick comment on switch on time. New amps switch on at 2 - 3 seconds. There has been a minor mod to the switch on circuit. Mine is the demo one that ASR tried so is still set at 7 seconds.
> 
> It's not a big deal really since by the time you get your headphone on your head, 7 seconds easily goes by. (Before anyone wants a modded board for 2 seconds!!)
> 
> ...


----------



## iancraig10

I try to be as honest as I can!! 

I've loved all of the Garage amps if I'm honest. Ever since I heard one of the first Sunrise amps to the Horizon, Ember and now Polaris. They are all really fine amps and Jeremy is a really lovely guy as well. So you get someone who is literally bending over backwards to please as many as he can.

I was pretty hard with the original Sunrise, since I have a studio and there are loads of things to potentially cause electrical interference. The Sunrise was difficult with me and I managed in the end to find one place where it remained quiet. It turns out that one of my synths was causing problems. Jeremy was great and he started to look at the design in order to knobble any potential areas susceptible to interference. Many manufacturers don't even bother to reply if you say anything negative, but he got it and the Sunrise worked beautifully even for me.

Never had any problems since with the others.

As far as the sound of the Polaris goes, I really like it a lot. There's a slightly more clean edge to the sound for me, with slightly less fruit in the bass than the Ember. However,the presence of lots of even harmonics due to the tube may well give the impression of a bigger bass, so for me, after using the Ember mostly for a long time too,the difference was immediately apparent.

Then I started to like that cleanness in the bass since it cleans out further up and so imo, there is a slight advantage in clarity.

It's really close though and the Ember has further configuration available through tube rolling. I have a couple of very nice tubes that I use with the Ember, but now I'm beginning to feel that they are 'colourful' but not quite as clean as the Polaris.

I'll see how I feel after a week or two.


----------



## Textfeud

Nice impressions @iancraig10 . I feel the same way. Of course I don't have the Ember nor did I ever listen to them (this is my first Project amp), but I had the Schiit Lyr for eight months and it's still pretty fresh in my memory. The Polaris has some of the features of a tube amp and some of a SS amp. I like it because I don't have to worry about tubes (love them, but knowing myself I go browsing for new tubes every night..) and it's warmer than any other SS amp I've ever tried. Just a great amp for not too much money. It's a pleasure to listen to and it's a pleasure to look at. It's fast, has a nice soundstage, good bass impact and clarity. What more can you wish for. 
  
 Found the right settings by the way (for now lol), haven't touched it for a couple hours now  
  
  
 EDIT: Found a big disadvantage. Can't seem to get to work while listening


----------



## iancraig10

I can't work either with it sitting here!! It's very addictive. What I think I'm hearing checks out with what Solderdude did. It doesn't in fact produce as many even harmonics as the Ember so it is similar but not the same type of bass that you hear on the Ember.

Indeed the Ember is more 'fruity' due to this harmonics. 

I'm kind of stuck between the two of them. I like the colourful nature of the Ember but also like the idea of the reliability of SS like yourself. It also seems cleaner to me, so that you hear deep into the sound rather than hear more of the 'edges' of the sound. (Bass and treble)

With my Orange Globes and 6n23 eb tubes, I tend to adjust volume for bass presence. With the Polaris, it's more for mid presence I think, and then the bass looks after itself. It's a slightly tidier sound.

With so many jumpers to fiddle with, it is tempting to keep switching around just in case you're missing something!! 

Any more variables and I might start running around in circles!!


----------



## Textfeud

Haha yeah, I hate too many options. I always wonder if I'm missing something. With tubes I just need to hear them all just in case the magic tube is out there somewhere. For me it turned out to be the Philips Miniwatt after having Siemens Cca, Dario Miniwatt, Siemens E288CC. And the Philips were the cheapest of the bunch. Had Bugle Boys, Orange Globes and some others too. It just adds up everytime you buy and sell tubes. Rather have the reliability of a SS but with some variables like with the Polaris. For me this is great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Which headphones are you using?


----------



## iancraig10

I have many since I use them for work.

Dt150, dt770, dt990, dt1350,

Hd600, hd650, hd598, Momentum over ears, hd25, hd558, hd250

Grado sr60e, 125i,

Ath a900, m50

AKG k601, k612

T40 modded with active filter, t50

Denon d2000

Yamaha mt220

Roland 300

It goes on and on.

I must have 20 heads. :mad:


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> I have many since I use them for work.
> 
> Dt150, dt770, dt990, dt1350,
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, that's a lot of cans


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, I have them all over the place. Tbh, I just use whatever is closest. I'm not a one sound person at all. I also use them for work so I kind of have an excuse I guess.

Not to mention all the portables and my Klipsch x8 and x10 and the Senn ie8 which I plug to a radio receiver for performing with. I have custom ear pieces so they really stay there and seal big time. That way, I don't go deaf on stage.


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> Yes, I have them all over the place. Tbh, I just use whatever is closest. I'm not a one sound person at all. I also use them for work so I kind of have an excuse I guess.
> 
> Not to mention all the portables and my Klipsch x8 and x10 and the Senn ie8 which I plug to a radio receiver for performing with. I have custom ear pieces so they really stay there and seal big time. That way, I don't go deaf on stage.


 
 Cool! What do you do if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## iancraig10

I'm a musician. We make the worst reviewers!!


----------



## Amish

Thought I'd step in and point out that all manuals can be found online here: http://www.garage1217.com/MANUALS/
  
 I'm glad you guys like the Polaris. It's a great little amp.
  
  
 Since you guys brought up the Ember I suppose I will have to hit on that as well.
  
 The Polaris is actually quite alike the Ember. You can easily tell these are made by Garage1217. I expected a different sound one way or the other but I can make my Ember sound exactly like the Polaris if I toss in a certain tube. It's the tubes that allow the Ember to pull away as the better sounding amp IMO. I have around 10+ tubes and it's amazing how each one can change the sound of the ember for better or worse. I have found that the Ember sounds best to my ears with Telefunken and Amperex tubes...12AX7 and 12AT7 types.
  
 I have done a ton and I mean a ton of A/B testing between these two amps and in the end I give Ember the nod as best of the bunch but the Polaris is by far one of the best headphone amps I've listened to and I'm comparing both these amps to amps that cost much more.
  
 Are they the end all for me? For now but ultimately I want to get into a higher end amp ($1k-2k) something with even more power. But that day is far off and until then and most likely long after I will enjoy Garage1217 for what they are; beautifully built, top quality, feature rich, middle of the line powerful and wonderfully clean sounding.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

At the next meet I'm planning on testing the Polaris with the HE6 and possibly the HD800. Just not sure what date our meet will be because we've yet to determine it but it will be before the end of the year.


----------



## Amish

I've listened to the HE400 and HE500 on the Polaris. They sounded great! I imagine the HE6 will sound great as well.


----------



## Textfeud

amish said:


> I've listened to the HE400 and HE500 on the Polaris. They sounded great! I imagine the HE6 will sound great as well.


 
 HE6 is power hungry though. Would be (pleasantly) surprised if the Polaris could drive them well. Schiit Lyr with all the power can't.


----------



## Textfeud

What are the settings at the end of the Polaris (near the outputs). It's called WO-of and W-of. Sound goes much louder with WO so it's hard to compare


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

W input attenuation
W/O input attenuation


----------



## Textfeud

What does it do?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

textfeud said:


> What does it do?


 

 It lessens the incoming signal (volume) so that if you're using sensitive IEMS or portables you could get more travel on the volume pot (and out of the channel imbalance zone).


----------



## YtseJamer

I just pulled the trigger on the Polaris!
  
 Can't wait to try this amp with my HE-560's.


----------



## Textfeud

soundsgoodtome said:


> It lessens the incoming signal (volume) so that if you're using sensitive IEMS or portables you could get more travel on the volume pot (and out of the channel imbalance zone).


 
 Thanks! Don't need that with the RS1i I'm guessing.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have already received my tracking number from Jeremy...can't wait !


----------



## jaxz

ytsejamer said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the Polaris!
> 
> Can't wait to try this amp with my HE-560's.




Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

ytsejamer said:


> I have already received my tracking number from Jeremy...can't wait !


 
 Jeremy = The Man

 You gonna like that Polaris, but what color did you get? Different LEDs have different sound sig. Looks like a lot of people like the purple sound but I prefer the green.





 Just saw your location, hopefully the customs guys aren't on a smoke break when the package gets halfway. Last time I shipped something it took a week or two LONGER to get to a Canada address than Sweden or Spain.


----------



## Amish

soundsgoodtome said:


> It lessens the incoming signal (volume) so that if you're using sensitive IEMS or portables you could get more travel on the volume pot (and out of the channel imbalance zone).


 

 I better way to describe it would be it rolls off the high notes.
  
 Let me say that Jeremy is one of the rare types that goes above and beyond what 99% of vendors do for their customers. He's the best for sure!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

amish said:


> I better way to describe it would be it rolls off the high notes.
> 
> Let me say that Jeremy is one of the rare types that goes above and beyond what 99% of vendors do for their customers. He's the best for sure!




The input attenuation? I don't think those roll off the highs..at least I dont think it's suppose to. I never use it so maybe it does?

 Or were you thinking the bandwith jumpers?


----------



## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> Jeremy = The Man
> 
> You gonna like that Polaris, but what color did you get? Different LEDs have different sound sig. Looks like a lot of people like the purple sound but I prefer the green.
> 
> ...


 
  
 lol
  
 I went with the purple led and the black volume knob.
  
 Yeah I hope that the package won't be stuck at the customs next week..


----------



## iancraig10

[quote name="Amish" url="/t/725896/new-from-garage1217-the-solid-state-project-polaris/315#post_10948943

Let me say that Jeremy is one of the rare types that goes above and beyond what 99% of vendors do for their customers. He's the best for sure!
[/quote]

I don't think many know just how much he bends over to accommodate everyone. He really puts himself out there and is one of the most friendly and helpful sellers of amps that I know of. He's a real enthusiast.


----------



## Textfeud

ytsejamer said:


> lol
> 
> I went with the purple led and the black volume knob.
> 
> Yeah I hope that the package won't be stuck at the customs next week..


 
 Blue and silver is the way to go. Now your Polaris won't perform wel


----------



## iancraig10

I've had a play around with different headphones today and found that the Polaris really takes off with the Beyer DT990 and the DT770. The body of sound is lovely and fruity, with a really fast bass attack and just a tad more edge in the treble than my k612 with 702 pads. To me, it sounds really 'big speaker' like.

It's a really lovely, musical sound and has me thinking (yet again) what the best headphone frequency response is. The ideal curve currently used as a target may not be the absolute ideal curve for a headphone imo and Tyll's recent work looking at alternatives is something that needs perhaps a little reviewing.

For me, many headphones kind of 'reveal' too much and don't sound pleasant. The life kind of gets sucked away and isn't something I can use to work with. For me, a headphone needs to sound like speakers In order to be able to play properly into them. So, many that are tested as having a good fr are for me, thin and edgy with no real music coming out but lots of detail.

For example, live cymbals sound like gongs. Not this thin splash that you hear so often on headphones. Bass has weight that never gets portrayed well on a headphone unless (for me) it's raised about 3db or so. Music can sound like loads of separate strands on analytical headphones whereas that isn't what you hear live.

It has me wondering whether we hear too much detail sometimes on headphones!!

I have the Polaris on high bandwidth and low output impedance.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I have an orange LED and a silver knob  I use the low resistence setting for dat clinical sound  Bandwith gets adjusted depending on the song and even the resistence as well. Titanium is a song that is VERY bright for instance. I love the darn thing though. Mine takes about 2.5seconds to "click"


----------



## J&J

Let me add my 2 cents to the conversation:
 1- Jeremy is the most responsive to consumer inquiries person I've ever dealt with
 2 -I own 3 G1217 Amps all gems
 3 - The Polaris is amazing with my HE 400s just bypass the input attenuator
 4- I love rolling LEDs in the Polaris try some Amp orange globes


----------



## iancraig10

j&j said:


> 4- I love rolling LEDs in the Polaris try some Amp orange globes




Seriously? You actually roll led's?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I hope I didn't start something here, the color rolling and sound was just a joke. The led plays no factor in sound


----------



## iancraig10

Sorry. I wondered what on earth you were talking about. There are people on here who would believe it too!!! 

You naughty boy!!!


----------



## J&J

rolling leds is hysterical thanks for a good joke with all the bad news today


----------



## SoAmusing777

j&j said:


> Let me add my 2 cents to the conversation:
> 1- Jeremy is the most responsive to consumer inquiries person I've ever dealt with
> 2 -I own 3 G1217 Amps all gems
> 3 - The Polaris is amazing with my HE 400s just bypass the input attenuator
> 4- I love rolling LEDs in the Polaris try some Amp orange globes


 

 He sure is. Bypassing the attenuator using low gain is a great idea for the lowest noise floor. I have the orange one right now. Love it


----------



## micmacmo

I think I recall reading something to the effect that you shouldn't modify or alter the LED on the O2 amp because it was actually being used in the signal path as a diode. Or something. (Note that I'm talking about the O2 amp here. I raise this just as a curiosity/trivial point that in some cases, LED swapping is bad.)


----------



## druelle

I'm thinking of getting the Polaris to pair with my HE-400s but am a bit confused about what you mean by "just bypass the input attenuator".  If you get a chance could you elaborate what this means?


----------



## J&J

In addition to gain adjustments the Polaris has a pin that in the default position attenuates the the signal from the line out of the source I'm guessing it's just a resistor This setting can be adjusted by moving the jumper to bypass position. This will give additional gain helpful for Planer hp like the 400.
 I think the attenuator helps with iems 
 The Polaris with the 400 is a great pairing lotsa detail .
 If you chk the G1217 website download the manual for the P all the jumper pin adjustments are explained  I found the default settings perfect except I moved to attenuator to bypass for the 400s


----------



## HOWIE13

Yes, and you can change the input attenuation, further, by creating your own resistor modules and simply slotting them in to replace the one provided if that doesn't suit the sensitivity of your headphones.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Anyone know if the resistor for the line - in attenuation effect the highs more than the mids or bass?


----------



## HOWIE13

soundsgoodtome said:


> I hope I didn't start something here, the color rolling and sound was just a joke. The led plays no factor in sound


 
 That's true, but I think colour can be important from a psycho acoustic viewpoint.
 There's quite a lot of information about colour and musical intervals and keys, and some classical composers did link musical key to colour.
 I choose a darker blue/purple colour in my Horizon and Polaris when listening to melancholy music compared to bright orange or red for more lively sound. For me, colour does help in creating the mood and ambience surrounding the music and that's one of the reasons Garage amps are so appealing to me.
 Of course, if you listen to music with your eyes closed, or fall asleep, it doesn't matter.


----------



## money4me247

howie13 said:


> That's true, but I think colour can be important from a psycho acoustic viewpoint.
> There's quite a lot of information about colour and musical intervals and keys, and some classical composers did link musical key to colour.
> I choose a darker blue/purple colour in my Horizon and Polaris when listening to melancholy music compared to bright orange or red for more lively sound. For me, colour does help in creating the mood and ambience surrounding the music and that's one of the reasons Garage amps are so appealing to me.
> Of course, if you listen to music with your eyes closed, or fall asleep, it doesn't matter.


 
 even with your eyes closed, the extra treble & brightness of the bright orange LED is very apparent.
  
 # trust yo ears!!!


----------



## iancraig10

If I wear a Bermuda shirt while I listen, I end up so cheerful, even when listening to Mahler. A trick that I learned from Tyll. 

Also, try eating a Chinese takeaway while listening to Indian Music. It's amazing how the flavours become almost Thai like.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> If I wear a Bermuda shirt while I listen, I end up so cheerful, even when listening to Mahler. A trick that I learned from Tyll.
> 
> Also, try eating a Chinese takeaway while listening to Indian Music. It's amazing how the flavours become almost Thai like.


 
 Mahler always makes me feel happy, whatever I wear or whatever colour the led, because I always feel that I couldn't ever be as depressed as he was!


----------



## iancraig10

Now you have to be a muso to understand that one!!

I might go mad and try a flashing torch tonight.


----------



## HOWIE13

.....and which colour will it be tonight?


----------



## iancraig10

I can't go with red. The neighbours might think I'm up to something suspicious and blue will make them think the cops are here.

I really like the Polaris with the D2000. You'd think such a low impedance headphone would particularly need an amp behind it, but it helps keep the flab off the bass!

I'll be trying it with an ah-d600 next I think. The D2000 has quite a kick in the treble and the Polaris helps to smooth things out which makes it a very pleasant listen. Low bandwidth smooths it a little more in the treble and it's very pleasant indeed.


----------



## HOWIE13

Ian- Which version of the Polaris did you get-the 7 second or the 2 second start up?


----------



## iancraig10

I have the second version, but the start up remains at 7 seconds. In fact, it's a small mod to change the start up. The one I have is the same one reviewed on here. I was very curious about what was written about it with regards to what was described as a 'lack of speed and treble extension' so Jeremy sent the same one to me to listen to.

My personal opinion is that it is actually extended and pretty fast. It's more of a tonal thing that I think might have been picked up on in the original review.

Measurements reveal it to be very extended but the mixture of tube like harmonic distortions make it seem to be warm I guess. It's less tubey than the Ember and I personally find it a little 'cleaner' sounding than the Ember.

I think the Ember has a big hearted 'fun' sound by comparison, but I am really enjoying the control that the Polaris gives to the D2000 and also the Beyer dt250.

However, I'm in the lucky position of having both, so I don't need to choose between them.

There were very few v1's put out. The difference was mostly in the way that the bandwidth was implemented and a full bandwidth wasn't possible. That was very quickly rectified which is the one I have.

I think Jeremy may be offering another set of bandwidth settings that aren't as severe as mine. So mine goes down 3db at 20 kHz on medium and 6db on low bandwidth.

You can have it slightly less if you want so that medium is more like 1.5 and low is 3db. Jeremymay be giving the option for people to choose.

I really don't mind the way mine is set tbh. It's fine. I mostly use it on high bandwidth in any case.


----------



## HOWIE13

I have the same version as you and totally agree. Polaris is a relatively fast amp, as my many String Quartet and Bach organ music recordings have amply demonstrated. 
 I find the bass very articulate and that's a big bonus for my tastes in music.
 I don't have an Ember, but do have a Starlight and Horizon 3. Just for fun I more or less mimicked the high bandwidth Polaris sound in the Horizon with a Valvo ECC88 manufactured by Philips in Holland, and the same in the Starlight with an OPA 2227 and Tungsram ECC81.
 Like you, I normally use the high bandwidth but I find I need the low bandwidth setting on occasion to smooth off some very bright recordings, so I wouldn't wish any changes to the amp-just as well given the shipping costs! 
 Incidently, the Polaris works very well with my K701, which I normally find rather cold and lacking bass but, with the right music and the Polaris, the K701 is absolutely stunning.
 I may buy an Ember one day, but there's no room on the shelf just now!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would choose orange simply because it's closest to amber, which is the least offensive and fatiguing color of light. Blues are way too bright and irritating. Ask all my devices with blue leds that have black mechanical tape covering them.


----------



## iancraig10

You can also turn the led off of course.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know, but blue LEDs are still an eyesore. I like some light. Amber or red are ideal.


----------



## druelle

Thanks for the info regarding the attenuation settings for the HE-400s. 
  
 Does the Polaris come with all the coloured LEDs or do you choose just one colour when you order?  
  
 It would be fun to swap the different colours but it's hard to visualize how they might look (I haven't come across any photos comparing the different colours).


----------



## HOWIE13

Some CD players give the option of turning off their displays in case they are affecting the sound. I wonder if the sound changes when Garage Amps' LEDs are switched off?  Must try that. Easy enough- just a jumper connection change.
  
 EDIT: Nope, listened all day-can't hear any difference-how surprising!!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Tried it with the D2000 for the first time last night and was really enjoying the synergy. It's a great combo





iancraig10 said:


> You can also turn the led off of course.


----------



## iancraig10

It is. I also use the d2000 and the d600 now. The 600 is thunderous and 'fun'. I know that it gets mixed reviews, but I like it actually. I've added a Beyer headband strap to the top so that it fits much better too.

For these headphones, I've lowered the input gain as well as the gain of the amp. That way, you get great control of the volume with no 'sudden' surprises.

Dt990 and 770 are also good with it, but the configuration needs to be changed for them.


----------



## YtseJamer

Did someone try the Polaris with the Audeze LCD-2 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Should be a good match. The LCD2 likes everything that isn't total rubbish, really. It pairs well with pretty much anything.


----------



## Amish

ytsejamer said:


> Did someone try the Polaris with the Audeze LCD-2 ?


 

 I have and it sounds fantastic. They work very well together. I still prefer the Ember though.


----------



## iancraig10

The Ember has more of those tube like harmonics than the Polaris so the Polaris is less tube like in sound, although it emulates a tube sound. You also have a wide choice of tubes to choose from as well.


----------



## Drrizzt

I have side by side the Polaris and miss Sunrise and yes, absolutely, altough miss Polaris is technicaly superior in terms of soundstage, instrument separation and tonal...i still love very much the sunrise because of this very lovely tube sound. I can say that on live recording, Tube amplification (harmonics) make the music sounds more REAL to my ears, like if i was there.


----------



## YtseJamer

mad lust envy said:


> Should be a good match. The LCD2 likes everything that isn't total rubbish, really. It pairs well with pretty much anything.


 
  


amish said:


> I have and it sounds fantastic. They work very well together. I still prefer the Ember though.


 
  
 Thanks guys


----------



## YtseJamer

I have finally received my Polaris yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The amp is very good with my HE-560 and my JH13 but the biggest revelation for me is the synergy between the Polaris and my Grado 225e. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm now thinking about replacing my HE-560 with the Grado PS500e..


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I've never tried the Polaris with a warm phone but my pairing with neutral and bright phones has been very good so far. I've always wondered if an hd650 would sound too warm on the Polaris. I did try it with the Ember but the room had a 70db noise floor (last Seattle meet).


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

soundsgoodtome said:


> It's the same footprint as the Ember but much much thinner. From the bottom of the rubber feet to the top of the post bolt I've got about 1.5 inches. I've got the Ember I use at home as well. Maverick A1 at work powers speakers and has a HP out but not really comparing that. I've also got a Yulong D100 and E18 but both are Amp/Dacs.
> 
> 
> Edit: Ok, so it's been running for 3 hours now since I've gotten it. Can't help myself but the Grade SR80 with wood cups sound absolutely stunning out of these. Low gain, low resistance, w/out input attenuation, and A/Bing between High Bandwith and Low Bandwith (which Jeremy explains rolls of the extreme highs to add a tube flavor to the fast SS amp). One word so far will be wow.
> ...






ytsejamer said:


> I have finally received my Polaris yesterday
> 
> The amp is very good with my HE-560 and my JH13 but the biggest revelation for me is the synergy between the Polaris and my Grado 225e. :eek:
> 
> I'm now thinking about replacing my HE-560 with the Grado PS500e..




My only available headphone when I first got mine (like literally when the shipment came in) was a woodied sr80. Polaris + Grado is a fantastic combo indeed

,


----------



## YtseJamer

I will try to find a store in Montreal where I could try the PS500e and the RS1e with my Polaris.


----------



## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> My only available headphone when I first got mine (like literally when the shipment came in) was a woodied sr80. Polaris + Grado is a fantastic combo indeed
> 
> ,


 
  
 Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really floored by the synergy between the 225e and the Polaris!


----------



## HOWIE13

soundsgoodtome said:


> I've never tried the Polaris with a warm phone but my pairing with neutral and bright phones has been very good so far. I've always wondered if an hd650 would sound too warm on the Polaris. I did try it with the Ember but the room had a 70db noise floor (last Seattle meet).


 
 HD 650 articulate and clear with Polaris. No tendency to its low/mid veil, as some have described it. It's still warm - but loads of detail comes through throughout the spectrum. I suspect it's because they benefit from lots of power, even though they are relatively sensitive, and the Polaris can provide that power.


----------



## mandrake50

howie13 said:


> HD 650 articulate and clear with Polaris. No tendency to its low/mid veil, as some have described it. It's still warm - but loads of detail comes through throughout the spectrum. I suspect it's because they benefit from lots of power, even though they are relatively sensitive, and the Polaris can provide that power.


 

 I agree with this!. It makes me wonder when I read people that swear the HD650 needs a mega-buck amp with in excess of 5 or more watts per channel to sound good.
  
 ??


----------



## HOWIE13

mandrake50 said:


> I agree with this!. It makes me wonder when I read people that swear the HD650 needs a mega-buck amp with in excess of 5 or more watts per channel to sound good.
> 
> ??


 
 I was so pleased that I emailed Jeremy and in my ecstasy told him the Polaris was actually making my HD650's sing and dance (or words to that effect)!
 Now I can understand why this same can has been in continuous production for around 16 years.


----------



## xaval

Lovely late posts. Among a sea of overpriced rigs I find it quite pleasing to read about what it most certainly is audio bliss. You guys enjoy the music!


----------



## HOWIE13

Thanks, Xaval - and we also get extra listening time tonight because the hour goes back!


----------



## Textfeud

howie13 said:


> Thanks, Xaval - and we also get extra listening time tonight because the hour goes back!


 

 Or sleep longer


----------



## Drrizzt

I have no experience of very high end rig, i'd like to compare the cheap Polaris with something like the Violectric V200 with my he-500 just to have an idea of how perform miss polaris against other big boyz. Would be nice to hear from someone who has this kind of experience!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ive used the 650 with a E9k, Sa31, and Compass 2. $100 amp to $600 amp. It sounded lovely off all 3. People just want to justify their exorbitantly priced gear.


----------



## Textfeud

Does anybody know if I can hook up active speakers (I already know this is possible) AND a record player with a phono preamp to the Polaris? So that I can listen to vinyl with my active speakers through the Polaris.


----------



## iancraig10

I connect to some active Roland speakers with no problems. I turn the speakers up high and use the Polaris as the volume control.


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> I connect to some active Roland speakers with no problems. I turn the speakers up high and use the Polaris as the volume control.


 
 Yes, I have done that too in combination with the iFi Nano IDSD. I guess that if I connect the turntable instead of the IDSD that should work too, right?


----------



## iancraig10

I can't see why not. The phono preamp will boost the signal for the Polaris which will send a bigger signal to the speakers.

You basically have two pre amps in effect though.


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> I can't see why not. The phono preamp will boost the signal for the Polaris which will send a bigger signal to the speakers.
> 
> You basically have two pre amps in effect though.


 
 Cool!
  
 What do you mean with the last sentence? Is it a problem to have two preamps in effect?


----------



## nicdub

I'm very interested to know how this sounds with the HE-500 and the LCD-2, as well as the Q701. I've been looking for a great solid state amp.


----------



## iancraig10

Well, not 'politically correct' for hi fi. It's more usual to have one pre amp into a power amp so there is more opportunity for the sound to distort or be coloured, but hey ..... It's not that bad!! (As long as you're careful about levels)


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> Well, not 'politically correct' for hi fi. It's more usual to have one pre amp into a power amp so there is more opportunity for the sound to distort or be coloured, but hey ..... It's not that bad!! (As long as you're careful about levels)


 
 What if I use something like the Schiit Sys with it?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Is there an advantage to using the Polaris as a preamp when your power amp has a volume control as well? By using the Polaris as preamp to control the volume of powered speakers or a power amp (both with controls), is there a sonic advantage?


----------



## YtseJamer

nicdub said:


> I'm very interested to know how this sounds with the HE-500 and the LCD-2, as well as the Q701. I've been looking for a great solid state amp.


 
  
 The Polaris is very good with my pair of HE-560 so I imagine that results will be the same with the HE-500.


----------



## No_One411

soundsgoodtome said:


> Is there an advantage to using the Polaris as a preamp when your power amp has a volume control as well? By using the Polaris as preamp to control the volume of powered speakers or a power amp (both with controls), is there a sonic advantage?


 
 Usually your power amp wouldn't have a volume control, unless it's an integrated amp. 
  
 To clarify, you wouldn't need the preamp if your amp already has a volume control. Also, I don't think there's much reason to preamp twice. You probably introduce more possibility for distortion that way.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I have an SMSL Sa-98e for example. Just a stereo amp with one input, volume control, and speaker taps to bookshelves. Any advantage? 

Basically besides volume control, does the signal get altered or does a preamp help in any other way? I can see tubes adding a distortion but what about SS?


----------



## No_One411

soundsgoodtome said:


> I have an SMSL Sa-98e for example. Just a stereo amp with one input, volume control, and speaker taps to bookshelves. Any advantage?
> 
> Basically besides volume control, does the signal get altered or does a preamp help in any other way? I can see tubes adding a distortion but what about SS?


 
 I don't think you'd need the Polaris as a preamp there...


----------



## YtseJamer

Here's the Project Polaris in action with my HE-560.  (It's a match made in heaven with the 560's)


----------



## Rudiger

What settings are the best with the HE-560 ? (Output impedance, freq range and gain) ?


----------



## nicdub

Can someone explain the resistance settings, and how this is related (if at all) to the output impedance?  I'm not sure I'm understanding it correctly, and there is no other spec listed for output impedance on the website.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## iancraig10

There are two resistance settings that don't affect the sound and one that does.

The ones that don't affect the sound are to enable you to get the gain right for the headphone that you choose to use. This means getting it so that an 'average' volume level is at about halfway up so that there are minimal tracking errors on the vol pot.

The first one is at the back right. That's the input gain. In other words, it decreases the signal coming in. Personally, I like that high but it does help if you have very sensitive headphones.

The other one is the gain of the amp. They're on the Middle front part of the amp. That is the one to use first if your amp is too soft or loud for your headphone. If the lowest gain is still too loud, then go for the ones at the back right.

Once you have the gain right so that the amp is playing at about the right volume at halfway, you can play around with the output impedance settings. They are in the middle, behind the gain switches. They affect the sound. Depending on which headphone you want to use, some react better or worse to these settings. For instance, I prefer the AKGs at higher impedance. It slightly softens the treble. It's very subtle. I like low output impedance for the Senn HD650.

While some in hi fi circles will turn up their noses at this, it can help to smooth a headphone out. Beware of the headphone sounding sluggish at high output impedance though.

Once you have the output impedance setting as you like it, then you may wish to alter the gain again; especially at higher output impedance.

It's really easy and just helps to get that last bit of finesses out of a headphone if you want it.

The idea that the output impedance must be low limits what your headphone will do. In other words, if your headphone sounds bad at low impedance, then there's no hope, but they can be slightly manipulated by playing around. A long time back, the standard for headphones was in fact, 120 ohms output impedance. This has changed over the years to as close to zero as possible. While there are reasons for this, changing the output impedance can really help some headphones in spite of the theory put out by some.

I hope this gets you to play around with the settings. There is no one right answer - it's what you prefer.


----------



## YtseJamer

rudiger said:


> What settings are the best with the HE-560 ? (Output impedance, freq range and gain) ?


 
  
 For my tastes, the sweet spot seems to be:
  
 Bandwidth : Medium
 Gain : High
 Output resistance : Low


----------



## mandrake50

ytsejamer said:


> For my tastes, the sweet spot seems to be:
> 
> Bandwidth : Medium
> Gain : High
> Output resistance : Low




My settings are:

Bandwidth : High (filter off, let it play what is there)

Gain : Low (less noise and distortion in theory)

Output resistance : Low (best damping factor)

I just have not seen any problems with the sound of any of the headphones that I use that I felt that changing setting from here are required. Of course I am a minimalist when it comes to EQ or other adjustments that alter the sound. 
I try to find a system that just works together without messing around. The Polaris is quite fine for me with no change from the "straight through" concept. Get the electronics out of the way as much as possible...


----------



## Drrizzt

mandrake50 said:


> My settings are:
> 
> Bandwidth : High (filter off, let it play what is there)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Same settings here. Except that i put a little bit of the "Meier Crossfeed" plugin on Foobar, some songs benefit from this effect, specially live recording.


----------



## Rudiger

Thank you very much for your useful answers. I have ordered the Polaris today! For my he-560. Will be shipped friday. I guess it will be better than the magni or the vali ? I already like the sound with the Vali (not so much with the magni) but i am curious to test more power.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I think you will find it much ahead of the Vali. Wider soundstage, faster bass, and IIRC a warmer sound. 

As for my setting:
w/o attenuation
low gain
high bandwith
-med bandwith for poor masters/lossy 
low impedance
-med for more lush/tubey sound

This is for the HE560


----------



## Textfeud

rudiger said:


> Thank you very much for your useful answers. I have ordered the Polaris today! For my he-560. Will be shipped friday. I guess it will be better than the magni or the vali ? I already like the sound with the Vali (not so much with the magni) but i am curious to test more power.


 
 Much better than the Vali.


----------



## iancraig10

nicdub said:


> Can someone explain the resistance settings, and how this is related (if at all) to the output impedance?  I'm not sure I'm understanding it correctly, and there is no other spec listed for output impedance on the website.  Thanks in advance!




Just to clarify the output impedance settings .....

for the Polaris, there are 3 choices;

Low = 0.1ohm

The mid and high setting add in resistors and change the .1ohm value so the user can select an additional 35R or 120R.

So on low output impedance, it's very close to zero.


----------



## nicdub

iancraig10 said:


> Just to clarify the output impedance settings .....
> 
> for the Polaris, there are 3 choices;
> 
> ...




Thanks for the knowledge! I had a feeling this was the case, but wanted to be sure. It really is an intriguing amp. Still deciding whether to get one, but it doesn't seem like there is much that can beat it for the price.


----------



## Textfeud

soundsgoodtome said:


> I think you will find it much ahead of the Vali. Wider soundstage, faster bass, and IIRC a warmer sound.
> 
> As for my setting:
> w/o attenuation
> ...


 
 Same settings with my Grado RS1i and I prefer medium impedance.


----------



## iancraig10

nicdub said:


> Thanks for the knowledge! I had a feeling this was the case, but wanted to be sure. It really is an intriguing amp. Still deciding whether to get one, but it doesn't seem like there is much that can beat it for the price.




I have both an Ember and a Polaris here. I also had the Sunrise and Horizon when they came out. All are absolutely superb with a warm and detailed sound. I love the configurability of the Ember and Polaris since I have an enormous collection of headphones and quite honestly, nothing seems to trip them up.

In fact, I'm sitting here now listening to a 96KHz 24 bit hi res recording of Diana Krall coming from a Fiio X1 into the Polaris, using a DT990 and it's absolutely stunning.

Cymbals not only splash, but you can clearly hear them ringing and the double bass has a real presence where you hear the guy's fingers plucking followed by a lovely deep 'boom'. Put good recordings through the Polaris and it really takes on the task with authority.

Of course, put a rough recording through or if you have a 'glassy' headphone, then use a different bandwidth setting and calmness returns.

They're really super amps.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

no_one411 said:


> I don't think you'd need the Polaris as a preamp there...


 
 Still didn't really answer my question though. Is there any audible advantage with a pre-amp vs an amp that has a volume control?


----------



## iancraig10

No.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

So it doesn't put the warmth of the amp onto to the sound before going to the speaker amp?


----------



## No_One411

soundsgoodtome said:


> Still didn't really answer my question though. Is there any audible advantage with a pre-amp vs an amp that has a volume control?


 
 Um....
  
 I didn't answer because I have not tried it, and because I really don't see any reason to do so. I can't imagine that there will be any aural benefit at all. 
  
 An amp with an integrated volume control already has an internal preamp.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Got it. Not sure why companies would make amps with no volume really... does it cost that much? Take too much room inside amp housings? Or they just want to have that extra part in the chain (to sell).


----------



## richard51

soundsgoodtome said:


> So it doesn't put the warmth of the amp onto to the sound before going to the speaker amp?


 

 i had the pre/ amp function of the ember  pairing with the powered Swan M10 speakers.... its make a big difference for me...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

richard51 said:


> i had the pre/ amp function of the ember  pairing with the powered Swan M10 speakers.... its make a big difference for me...


 
  
 I guess the best thing to do here is bring the Polaris to work and test it on the speaker system.


----------



## Textfeud

soundsgoodtome said:


> I guess the best thing to do here is bring the Polaris to work and test it on the speaker system.


 
 Are you talking about passive or active speakers? I use them with active speakers that have a built in amp/dac. Polaris and Adam Artist are very good together and yes it improves the sound. Using a amp with passive speakers and the Polaris would be nonsense (if it's even possible).


----------



## nicdub

Purchased the Polaris yesterday, really looking forward to hearing it. I will be using it with the LCD-2, HE-500, and the Q701, and comparing it to the Pan Am and the Dacport. I will post some impressions for any who are interested.


----------



## YtseJamer

nicdub said:


> Purchased the Polaris yesterday, really looking forward to hearing it. I will be using it with the LCD-2, HE-500, and the Q701, and comparing it to the Pan Am and the Dacport. I will post some impressions for any who are interested.


 
  
 Welcome to the club


----------



## Mike In Bama

*I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!*. No thanks to all of you, I just jumped into the pool. Polaris and HE-560 are on order as of now. I tried to hold out until Christmas, but I'm tired of reading how happy all of you are. I want some of the Kool-Aid too!


----------



## iancraig10

Happy Christmas!! :wink_face:


----------



## Rudiger

ordered a Polaris too !


----------



## HOWIE13

Just discovered the mid bandwidth setting is great at cutting back vocal sibilance, without appreciably affecting the rest of the sound. That's handy.


----------



## iancraig10

That's basically what the bandwidth restrictions are for Howie13. It just takes the top down a bit earlier so that it is slightly more mellow. The fr graphs look much more ferocious to me than what you actually hear on a headphone.


----------



## Textfeud

howie13 said:


> Just discovered the mid bandwidth setting is great at cutting back vocal sibilance, without appreciably affecting the rest of the sound. That's handy.


 
 Try mid impedance too. Made a difference for me with Grado RS1i!


----------



## HOWIE13

I did find that there was still some sibilance on one badly remastered recording, even using the mid bandwidth setting, with my k701's and HP200''s, which are both sensitive to this problem, so I compared changing to the low bandwidth setting with increasing the output impedance. They both worked very well and didn't take any of the 'life' and 'presence' out of the sound, whilst stopping the sibilance being obtrusive. That's the great thing about the Polaris-it's versatile where it matters, in fine tuning the sound to the occasion.


----------



## Jakkal

Don't you guys think that the Polaris been an open design will have problem with dust in the future? I've herd that dust is a issue for electric components.


----------



## HOWIE13

jakkal said:


> Don't you guys think that the Polaris been an open design will have problem with dust in the future? I've herd that dust is a issue for electric components.


 
 I read that too somewhere but I have an old Philco valve radio which gets full of dust, and I just vacuum inside once a year. It always sounds great and I have not even had to change a single tube in 10 years.


----------



## Mike In Bama

I'm an electronics tech and have been repairing equipment for 40 years. The only thing I can recall even remotely causing a problem is a scratchy volume control. Even that is mostly caused by loose carbon particles inside the potentiometer. 

Seriously, if you could see the condition of what I work on in a steel mill, you wouldn't worry. It amazes me that anything works, but it does. Critical items are on a cleaning schedule and the rest is let go. 

An occasional vacuum, blast with an air hose or a can of compressed air is all you need for years of trouble free service.


----------



## iancraig10

I use a puffer and a sable paint brush. No problems whatsoever with dust.

In fact, you got me opening a synth amp to have a look inside. It was disgusting. So I had to use a mini Hoover and that has been covered all of the time!!


----------



## Mike In Bama

Wow! Polaris ordered Thirsday and it just arrived at myailbox. Christmas has indeed come early! Now if the HE-560's will get here, I'm going to be a happy guy.


----------



## Mike In Bama

Houston, we have a Polaris splashdown!

Pictures just don't do this amp justice. This little amp is a work of art! I have only unboxed it and applied power for what my profession calls the, "Smoke Test".

Having some more errands to do today, I brought the package to my watering hole for a photo session. I recorded every detail of what my experience was. If anyone desires, I'll post it here. 

Once again, electronics is my profession, so I went over every minor detail of the Polaris. I wanted to be able to warn *everyone* if there was something amiss. There are two very minor things that caught my attention but I would like to tell you all of the positives first. 

Pros:
• Component mounting: A professional level job! Properly done, all components that are horizontally mounted are all mounted in the same direction. Same with vertical orientation. This makes no difference in operation but a technician loves this attention to detail when there is a problem. 

• Soldering Job: I've done it so long I sometimes forget that not everyone knows how to solder. I closely inspected every joint for the slightest defect. *EVERY* joint was textbook perfect. None had too much or too little solder. Absolutely World Class soldering, period!

• Packaging: So many little touches here. The amp comes in an anti-static bag. The rest of the packaging is enough to protect everything except a well place .45 slug or a rampant 18-wheeler. A delivery person would have to go to a lot of trouble to damage this package. 

• Knurled Thumbscrews: I checked each one for how hard they were torqued down. It would be very easy for a fool to twist them until they can't be twisted anymore. You don't want to do that with an acrylic top like this. The top will not fly off under any circumstances. Just tighten the thumbscrews until they don't turn any more AND STOP! That is exactly where each of them were when I checked all of them. PERFECT!

Cons:
I hesitate to call this a Con because it is through no fault of Garage 1217 that I noticed this. The knurled thumbscrews are absolutely adequate for the job they do. However, from a hobby machinist or a picky person's point of view, they aren't a work of art. 

Obviously, these are Chinese made parts and are rough and ready. The heads of some of them appear to have had CHINA stamped on top of them. A half azz effort was made to remove that. Personally, I would be ashamed for that part to be associated with my name. Believe me, I will sand and polish these to a degree of beauty. 

Other observations
• Power supply: When connecting the power supply to an outlet, I noticed a healthy spark. There are no negative connotations to that, it just means the power supply is a load on the outlet. 

Conclusion:
As this is only a comment on the amp and a smoke test, my observations maybe don't mean a great deal. FWIW, my Polaris is serial no. 0013  and the board says it is revision 1.1. Startup time is 2 seconds. 

Folks, this amp appears machine made. I know it isn't. More later when the HE-560's arrive.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Great initial write-up. Fwiw the Ember came with much nicer thumb screws but that's because of settings under the acrylic that needs to be accessible. Thumb screws are easy to acquire and I want to say the same screws are used for computer side panels. I suppose I can try it when I get gome.


----------



## J&J

I clear the dust on /in my G1217 open chasis amps with compressed air can from Radio Shack


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

soundsgoodtome said:


> Great initial write-up. Fwiw the Ember came with much nicer thumb screws but that's because of settings under the acrylic that needs to be accessible. Thumb screws are easy to acquire and I want to say the same screws are used for computer side panels. I suppose I can try it when I get gome.


 

 $10 for 4 thumb screws. I take it you can get them when you order and just have Jeremy pop those on prior to shipment: http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


----------



## money4me247

j&j said:


> I clear the dust on /in my G1217 open chasis amps with compressed air can from Radio Shack


 
 i found the amplifier to sound much airier after some compressed air treatment. highly recommended =P


----------



## nicdub

Just received mine today, board shows Rev. 1.1, for what it's worth.  Really pleased with overall build quality and appearance.  Wasn't sure what to expect, this being my first Garage1217 purchase, but I was more than pleasantly surprised.  Changed a couple of settings, including the attenuation and output impedance, and fired it up.  Using the Polaris with the Audioquest Dragonfly and the HE-500, my initial impression is this amp has a mellow, but authoritative, sound.  Not harsh in the least (although I don't really find the 500's to be harsh to begin with.  I'll continue to past some brief impressions with some other phones when I have the time, but so far, seems like a great amp.


----------



## Mike In Bama

As an FYI, for those of us that have a Harbor Freight nearby, there is an alternative. Cans of compressed air or electronics cleaner can be expensive. Thankfully, HF sells a refillable compressed air can. It can be recharged with the smallest of 12 volt air compressors. 

If you run out of air you are only minutes away from having another charge that is ready to go. It works great and I don't have to go across town for a simple can of air.


----------



## nicdub

mike in bama said:


> As an FYI, for those of us that have a Harbor Freight nearby, there is an alternative. Cans of compressed air or electronics cleaner can be expensive. Thankfully, HF sells a refillable compressed air can. It can be recharged with the smallest of 12 volt air compressors.
> 
> If you run out of air you are only minutes away from having another charge that is ready to go. It works great and I don't have to go across town for a simple can of air.




Thanks for the tip. Harbor Freight just opened a store near my house, sounds like a simple solution.


----------



## Asr

mike in bama said:


> As an FYI, for those of us that have a Harbor Freight nearby, there is an alternative. Cans of compressed air or electronics cleaner can be expensive. Thankfully, HF sells a refillable compressed air can. It can be recharged with the smallest of 12 volt air compressors.
> 
> If you run out of air you are only minutes away from having another charge that is ready to go. It works great and I don't have to go across town for a simple can of air.


 
  
 An air blower is a better alternative to compressed air: http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/dp/B00017LSPI/


----------



## Mike In Bama

For the benefit of you who can't visualize just how small the Polaris is, how about this. The manual comes on CD and is in a slim profile CD case. Here we have the CD case on top of the Polaris. As you can see, essentially the volume knob is the only thing that extends outside of the case footprint. 



Here is another view next to an adult beverage (not included).


----------



## iancraig10

asr said:


> An air blower is a better alternative to compressed air: http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/dp/B00017LSPI/




That puffer is really good. I use iton mine and then follow up with anything 'difficult' by using a sable artist paint brush.


----------



## dpump

I want to mention that, due to a trade with Jeremy, I have a Polaris I will be putting on the For Sale Forum. It is SN#0016 and has the 1.0 PCB. However, it has been modified so that the High bandwidth setting is not rolled off, it is the same as the High setting on the 1.1 PCB. The difference between my 1.0 PCB and the 1.1 PCB now is that the Medium and Low bandwidth settings on my 1.0 PCB are identical and are the same as the Medium setting on the 1.1 PCB. So, on my 1.0 Polaris you have a High bandwidth setting and a Medium/Low bandwidth setting that are the same as  the High bandwidth and Medium bandwidth settings on the 1.1. What you don't have is a Low bandwidth setting that matches the Low bandwidth on the 1.1. Hope that makes sense.
  
 I will be listing it for $175 including PayPal fee and shipping in the continental USA only. Not looking for any trades except possibly a Bottlehead Crack as I have a lot of tubes that will work with the Crack. I will wait for a day or two before putting it on the For Sale forum in case anyone here is interested. I can send pictures but it is in like-new condition. Any Garage1217 amp has a 5-year warranty which is transferable to another owner.


----------



## dpump

dpump said:


> I want to mention that, due to a trade with Jeremy, I have a Polaris I will be putting on the For Sale Forum. It is SN#0016 and has the 1.0 PCB. However, it has been modified so that the High bandwidth setting is not rolled off, it is the same as the High setting on the 1.1 PCB. The difference between my 1.0 PCB and the 1.1 PCB now is that the Medium and Low bandwidth settings on my 1.0 PCB are identical and are the same as the Medium setting on the 1.1 PCB. So, on my 1.0 Polaris you have a High bandwidth setting and a Medium/Low bandwidth setting that are the same as  the High bandwidth and Medium bandwidth settings on the 1.1. What you don't have is a Low bandwidth setting that matches the Low bandwidth on the 1.1. Hope that makes sense.
> 
> I will be listing it for $175 including PayPal fee and shipping in the continental USA only. Not looking for any trades except possibly a Bottlehead Crack as I have a lot of tubes that will work with the Crack. I will wait for a day or two before putting it on the For Sale forum in case anyone here is interested. I can send pictures but it is in like-new condition. Any Garage1217 amp has a 5-year warranty which is transferable to another owner.


 
  
 The amp has sold!


----------



## Rudiger

I received the Polaris yesterday here in France. I confirm it sounds great with my HE-560 ! Good work Jeremy.


----------



## Textfeud

Congratz!


----------



## threegr

rudiger said:


> I received the Polaris yesterday here in France. I confirm it sounds great with my HE-560 ! Good work Jeremy.


 
  
 I can see you also have Vali, can you compare Polaris with Vali? I'm thinking about upgrading from Vali to Polaris or Ember...


----------



## Rudiger

threegr said:


> I can see you also have Vali, can you compare Polaris with Vali? I'm thinking about upgrading from Vali to Polaris or Ember...


 
 Important question is : what headphones do you use?
  
 So I did some comparisons, good question. 
  
 I love the Vali (despite what I say further, it sound really nice). I find it very good with the HE-560. But clearly the Polaris is a step above, and with all the settings I think it is my end-game.
 (I realized that with the maximum gain and at 120 ohm, it sounds like my Nad, and that it is not the best settings !).
  
 Polaris is more detailed and has better soundstage & clarity compared to Vali. It also have more punch (PRAT). And it is less aggressive in the treble than the Magni. Oh, and most importantly, I found that despite all, the Vali and Magni have in common to sound a bit metallic and processed. (This may come from some components they have in common?)
  
 I will sell my Vali and my Magni soon... I'm very VERY happy with the Polaris !


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

While the Vali had great value when paired with a few headphones, the Polaris is a clear step above it. The polarizing difference imo is while the Vali can sound great with a select few, the Polaris will sound excellent with most of what you'll throw at it. The Polaris is much more flexible in pairings with all its sound/output tailoring


----------



## Textfeud

I can vouch for that. Had the Vali before I got the Polaris. Polaris is better. How much better is up to you!


----------



## threegr

rudiger said:


> Important question is : what headphones do you use?


 
  
 I am using Alpha Dogs, this is for my work setup. While I also like Vali and it's sound, I feel that AD is a bit underamped when used it this combination. So that's why I'm looking for a more powerful amp.
  
 Since I don't have much desk space in my current office, it has to be something with a small footprint. So it will probably be Polaris or Ember in the end. I am torn between ease of use and reliability of SS and tube magic that Ember could give.


----------



## J&J

I can say with some certainty that the Polaris has one of the smallest footprint to power ratio of any amp ever and it also sounds great


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I think the two would make a fantastic pairing. Although an Ember might be nice addition if you feel the Alpha dry.





threegr said:


> I am using Alpha Dogs, this is for my work setup. While I also like Vali and it's sound, I feel that AD is a bit underamped when used it this combination. So that's why I'm looking for a more powerful amp.
> 
> Since I don't have much desk space in my current office, it has to be something with a small footprint. So it will probably be Polaris or Ember in the end. I am torn between ease of use and reliability of SS and tube magic that Ember could give.


----------



## threegr

soundsgoodtome said:


> I think the two would make a fantastic pairing. Although an Ember might be nice addition if you feel the Alpha dry.


 

 I don't find Alpha Dogs dry, at least to my ears and with my gear. The best I've heard it was with WA6-SE, very engaging sound, I was able to 'feel' every emotion present in the recording (Audio-gd Reference 5.32 used as DAC). AD also sounds really good out of my Audio-gd NFB-6, very clean and detailed, but significantly less 'alive' than WA6-SE. That's why I cannot decide between Polaris and Ember


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I've never heard it but that's what I thought I heard some say before. If you don't need the decay/tube distortion then go for the Polaris. However if you want more soul to the sound, ember it is.


----------



## threegr

soundsgoodtome said:


> I've never heard it but that's what I thought I heard some say before. If you don't need the decay/tube distortion then go for the Polaris. However if you want more soul to the sound, ember it is.


 

 I was afraid I was going to get answer similar to yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If only I could buy / hear both amps... I can see that you used to have Ember, but you have settled with Polaris. What was the most significant difference between them that made you keep the Polaris?


----------



## iancraig10

I have both. I couldn't easily choose between them if I'm honest. The Ember is a more 'colourful' listen and the sound contains more 'tube' harmonics, so that it sounds richer than the Polaris. You can also tweak away with tubes to get the sound close to what you want.

The first thing that I noticed straight away was the lack of tube harmonics in the Polaris. The Polaris seems 'cleaner' so my ears tell me that the Polaris is perhaps a little more 'accurate' sounding, with a 'flavour' of tube harmonics, whereas the Ember is (if you like), more fun sounding in that it has more of that 'rubber band' type bass that tubes are so good at reproducing.

Which one would I buy? I really can't say because I really like both. In fact, I intended to sell one or the other and just can't bring myself to do it. I am really fond of both - they just sound slightly different. Perhaps less noise on the Polaris as well as less of the tube harmonics, although it does 'imitate' a tube sound slightly, the original Polaris was designed with another op amp that produced more richness, but they turned out to be difficult to get since they were an old one that isnt so widely available so since a different one was decided on in the end, there are slightly less of the tube 'distortions' in the Polaris sound.

I currently use the Polaris more than the Ember. It is a superb amp.


----------



## threegr

Thanks for the explanation. I will probably get Polaris, since the difference between Ember isn't that big and SS seems more convenient for the office environment. If I like it, later I'll get myself an Ember to use at home, just for fun...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

What iancraig said, but if you go to the earlier pages I have a compaRison. Also the polaris is definitely the way to go if you're cramped in space and can't have a hot tube sticking out of it. 





threegr said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I will probably get Polaris, since the difference between Ember isn't that big and SS seems more convenient for the office environment. If I like it, later I'll get myself an Ember to use at home, just for fun...


----------



## Drrizzt

I was a/ab'ing with my polaris between low and high gain and i came to the conclusion that high gain gives more dynamics to my He-500.
 The sound is more alive, the bass slam harder. There is more authority vs the more polite sound of low gain. 
  
 Besides that i don't find any degradation of any sort in high gain.
  
 Do you guys think the same on yours ?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

drrizzt said:


> I was a/ab'ing with my polaris between low and high gain and i came to the conclusion that high gain gives more dynamics to my He-500.
> The sound is more alive, the bass slam harder. There is more authority vs the more polite sound of low gain.
> 
> Besides that i don't find any degradation of any sort in high gain.
> ...


 

 Between low and medium gain, there's definitely more dynamics and slam on medium. I'll try the high gain some time (on my HE560).


----------



## Mike In Bama

I'll throw an opinion in here even though my Polaris is only days old. (So are my HE-560s).

I am currently running on high gain because it seems like the motor has a slightly better cam or carb on it. (Am I old or what?)

Everything is just breathing better and showing a little more muscle and a quicker response. Honestly, just like an engine in a classic car when you find the sweet spot. 

Once again, English is my first and only language, but I'm not good at it.


----------



## nicdub

mike in bama said:


> I'll throw an opinion in here even though my Polaris is only days old. (So are my HE-560s).
> 
> I am currently running on high gain because it seems like the motor has a slightly better cam or carb on it. (Am I old or what?)
> 
> ...


 
 For those using high gain, are you also using attenuation?


----------



## Drrizzt

On some classical tracks, i push to volume to the max on high gain. The He500 drinks all the 2W witout blowing up my eardrums so, no attenuation for me.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

drrizzt said:


> On some classical tracks, i push to volume to the max on high gain. The He500 drinks all the 2W witout blowing up my eardrums so, no attenuation for me.


 
 Must be some quiet recordings... can't imagine doing that on the 560s which are suppose to be the same efficiency as the 500s or very close. Medium, no attenuation and I don't get pass 11, I don't even think i pass 10 o'clock on the dial with most recordings. MAX VOLUME?!


----------



## Drrizzt

Most of the time the Polaris is set betwen 1 or 2 o' clock, still on high gain. I guess i like when it's loud, or i might have listening issues


----------



## Mike In Bama

I've only limited myself to one adjustment at a time. Currently, my Polaris has the input attenuation set to ON. 

I'm intentionally trying to give each setting a chance to show me what they have to offer before I move on. The Electronics Tech/Geek in me is trying to use the scientific method of only changing one variable at a time. 

When I can offer a plausible, informed opinion about what I hear, trust me, I'll throw it in here. I think it is unfair to do so with so few hours on this equipment.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mike in bama said:


> I've only limited myself to one adjustment at a time. Currently, my Polaris has the input attenuation set to ON.
> 
> I'm intentionally trying to give each setting a chance to show me what they have to offer before I move on. The Electronics Tech/Geek in me is trying to use the scientific method of only changing one variable at a time.
> 
> When I can offer a plausible, informed opinion about what I hear, trust me, I'll throw it in here. I think it is unfair to do so with so few hours on this equipment.


 
 Initial impressions on the pairing? I know it's all brand new and I'm sure things will settle after some run time on both HP and amp but what do you think so far?


----------



## Rudiger

drrizzt said:


> I was a/ab'ing with my polaris between low and high gain and i came to the conclusion that high gain gives more dynamics to my He-500.
> The sound is more alive, the bass slam harder. There is more authority vs the more polite sound of low gain.
> 
> Besides that i don't find any degradation of any sort in high gain.
> ...


 
 +1
 With the HE-560, I find that the average gain is better than the low gain. More dynamics, exactly this.
 That said, I find hight gain is a little harsh for my taste. Mid gain is perfect to me.


----------



## nicdub

With attenuation off, and low gain, I rarely get past 10 o'clock on the dial with the HE-500, and that's usually if its a quiet recording.  Switching it to medium gain, that became more like 9 o'clock.  Not sure I heard much difference in regards to sound quality, but it was a brief listen.  I think I'll try it with attenuation on, and medium gain.  No degradation in sound quality occurs when attenuating the signal, correct?


----------



## YtseJamer

rudiger said:


> +1
> With the HE-560, I find that the average gain is better than the low gain. More dynamics, exactly this.
> That said, I find hight gain is a little harsh for my taste. Mid gain is perfect to me.




X2


----------



## Mike In Bama

Initial impression is very, very good. The Polaris has enough horsepower to drive the 560s with room to spare. Again, I haven't tried running with no input attenuation so the additional headroom available is unknown. I can say that with attenuation you can get to hearing damage volume. 

I am tremendously pleased with the sound. Everything I have thrown at this combination is jaw dropping good. Fast, agile, nimble - every subtly is there. Firm, even sneaky bass. Not at all overblown. An overall feeling of untapped power ready to jump into action when needed. 

In short, I'm keeping this combination. It is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mike in bama said:


> Initial impression is very, very good. The Polaris has enough horsepower to drive the 560s with room to spare. Again, I haven't tried running with no input attenuation so the additional headroom available is unknown. I can say that with attenuation you can get to hearing damage volume.
> 
> I am tremendously pleased with the sound. Everything I have thrown at this combination is jaw dropping good. Fast, agile, nimble - every subtly is there. Firm, even sneaky bass. Not at all overblown. An overall feeling of untapped power ready to jump into action when needed.
> 
> In short, I'm keeping this combination. It is exactly what I was looking for.


 
 Them guys over at the HE560 thread really need a tour model to try with theirs. It's an incredible combo


----------



## Mike In Bama

They will have someone in the Greater Birmingham area after the first of the year. I'll be glad to do a demo around here. The next closest person I know of with similar gear is about 100 miles north in Huntsville. 

I'm a busy guy this time of year. 

Girls love Santa and Santa loves girls!


----------



## BRMSlash

Had my Polaris burning in with pink noise for 24 hours now and I'm pretty happy so far. I've got a R1.0 board with trace mods to R1.1 specs (S/N 0047). Start up delay is about 7 seconds, but doesn't particularly bother me. It's taken a bit to find the best settings for my HD598's though. It's a balancing act between bass response, mid gain and ambience. I think I've settled on 'with input attenuation', 'high bandwidth', 'mid gain' and 'high output resistance'. This seems to produce the most balanced tone, keeping the bass tight, the mids are crunchy (but not harsh) and ambience/headroom is intact. I was running with mid output resistance and low gain for for a while but the bass was a bit dominant and the mids recessed.

I also tried with my v-JAYS and had to use 'low output resistance' and 'low gain' , however the mids were still a little harsh. The v-JAYS are 24 Ohm, so I can understand the "32 - 600 Ohm recommended" in the Project Polaris manual. I think I'll keep the v-Jays paired with my FiiO E12 as they compliment each other better.


----------



## YtseJamer

soundsgoodtome said:


> Them guys over at the HE560 thread really need a tour model to try with theirs. It's an incredible combo


 
  
 X2.


----------



## Mike In Bama

One of my minute gripes about the Polaris was the condition of the top of the thumbscrews. I'm a hobby machinist and the finish just wasn't up to the quality this amp deserves.


The top one is just a mess. The second has the a protrusion in the middle. That is caused by the cutoff tool not being aligned with the center of the thumbscrew. The bottom two look like something had been stamped there and an attempt was made to grind it off. 

Jeremy has assured me that these parts are American made and not stamped CHINA. Today, I've sanded the thumbscrews level and bead blasted them for a nice matte finish.


On a disappointing note, as I went to enter this thought I was greeted by this ad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Beats Solo2 is a very good headphone. Nothing wrong with that ad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Disregard.


When I feel I need an amp, I'm certain the Polaris will be that amp.


----------



## jexby

Subbed, I am in thanks to Jeremy's explanations and Q&A.
Polaris v1.1 to be here in a week or so, will connect to Concero HD, HE-560. Then some IEMs and NAD HP50.
Hope it can handle the kitchen sink ha!


----------



## AxelCloris

jexby said:


> Subbed, I am in thanks to Jeremy's explanations and Q&A.
> Polaris v1.1 to be here in a week or so, will connect to Concero HD, HE-560. Then some IEMs and NAD HP50.
> Hope it can handle the kitchen sink ha!


 
  
 You get out of here.


----------



## jexby

axelcloris said:


> You get out of here.


 
  
 ah yes, the glorious turkish tapestry that is the welcome mat unfurled by AxelC, thanks man!





  
 well guess what, Polaris 1.1 already arrived!  had a day of (powerful) listening with iFi micro iDSD DAC feeding it, Polaris indeed appears to be one sweet amp.
 a smidgen of warmer distortion makes for some smooth listening overall, a goal of Jeremy's obviously.  check.
  
 almost limitless tweak-ability?  check.
 NAD HP50 don't need much power, and even on low gain was not past 9-10am on the dial.  still, a good pairing as Polaris speed lends to HP50 I feel.
  
 IEMs- seemingly good, but low gain power too much.
 so guess what?
 Jeremy wakes me up and says "heya, see that attenuator module there? it's field replaceable!"
 so he's jacking me up some wetware modules of resisters that can slot in to further reduce the electro-harmonic power on days when IEMs need less crystal juice.
 cool.
 such power versatility very welcome until some used 400i or new Oppo-PM3 drop into my lap in 2015 for work use.
  
  
 I won't even begin the "excellent value for the budget" argument- as it could likely still be applied if Polaris was overpriced by 2x.
 more after the Holidaze,


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

jexby said:


> I won't even begin the "excellent value for the budget" argument- as it could likely still be applied if Polaris was overpriced by 2x.
> more after the Holidaze,
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Seriously, if Jeremy put the Polaris inside a nice aluminum chassis everyone would be losing their Schiit over them. (See what I did there?)  Anyways welcome to the club and enjoy one of the most undervalued/under-rated amps on the market.

_As for this attenuator module,_ is this the incoming line attenuator?

 Cheers!


----------



## jexby

soundsgoodtome said:


> Seriously, if Jeremy put the Polaris inside a nice aluminum chassis everyone would be losing their Schiit over them. (See what I did there?)  Anyways welcome to the club and enjoy one of the most undervalued/under-rated amps on the market.
> 
> _As for this attenuator module,_ is this the incoming line attenuator?
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 1.  ditto on Polaris not having the hype train of Schist amps.  too bad actually.  someone on FS forum is selling a Polaris and stated he'd trade for an Asgard 2.  pfft.
  
 2. yes, incoming line attenuator.  C17 on the board schematics.


----------



## Amish

I have a Polaris sitting next to a Bryston BHA-1. I prefer the Polaris.
  
 I agree about the metal chassis and they (Frans and Jeremy) have been talking about that for some time now. So I think we will see the metal case at some point.


----------



## iancraig10

I think the problem with having a full enclosure is the cost. Jeremy is trying to offer real value for money here and in my opinion, he really does. Putting it in an enclose will raise the price which is not what he wants to do.

However, there would be benefits with regards to problems with airborne noise like mobile phones.

Given that many people are put off products by the case, a good looker might be expensive and many would turn their nose up at a standard aluminium case.

Given that it can be bought as a diy project, then there's not really anything stopping people putting it in a case if they want. For the rest of us less talented mortals, it's a higher price or as it currently is.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Thing is, if they offer the amps with metal cases more people would look at them, of course pay the extra too. An additional $50 on the price tag isn't going to turn people away, specially when there are plenty of nods from the community on the amps. This is catering to the non-diy of course. So they have a $300ish Polaris in a nice case and people will be more enticed to try them, word gets around and people will mention these amps more. At the same time the plexiglass versions stay where they're at for those who are more enticed by sound than metallic aesthetics, which still keeps the value aspect for those just caring of sound.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, I think it may be on the way in any case. The other consideration is non USA people who face import tax as well, so for us in the UK for instance, we have to add 20% to the cost with the postage as well and the added weight.

It has always puzzled me (although there must be a reason) why goods sold from non EU countries have basically two sets of taxes on them. We have to pay US tax as well as UK plus postage. It's a pity that exports can't be sold duty free, but then the receiver's own country taxes are added.

So the added cost will also add a bit more tax and perhaps postage due to the weight.


----------



## Textfeud

jexby said:


> 1.  ditto on Polaris not having the hype train of Schist amps.  too bad actually.  someone on FS forum is selling a Polaris and stated he'd trade for an Asgard 2.  pfft.
> 
> 2. yes, incoming line attenuator.  C17 on the board schematics.


 
 That person is me. The Polaris doesn't create a lot of interest and the Asgard 2 does on the For Sale/For Trade forums. So that would mean I could try out the Asgard 2 and then sell it. I'm really after a tube amp. Would love to have the Project Ember if anyone is interested in a trade. Maybe someone wants solid state instead of tubes.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I think you'd be stepping backwards in sq by going to the as2 but that's just imo. I know someone who's had the as2, Polaris and Ember at the same time and the g1217 amps were a clear level above asg2. All using the he560 as hps.

Maybe someone will trade you outright with one of the older models but I think you'd have to sweeten the trade to go to an ember.


----------



## Textfeud

soundsgoodtome said:


> I think you'd be stepping backwards in sq by going to the as2 but that's just imo. I know someone who's had the as2, Polaris and Ember at the same time and the g1217 amps were a clear level above asg2. All using the he560 as hps.
> 
> Maybe someone will trade you outright with one of the older models but I think you'd have to sweeten the trade to go to an ember.


 
 I know I might/would, but I could sell the Asgard 2 easier than the Polaris. Schiit just is a more household name than Garage1217. Plan is to get the Ember anyways. I will add money of course since the Ember is more expensive new.


----------



## richard51

textfeud said:


> I know I might/would, but I could sell the Asgard 2 easier than the Polaris. Schiit just is a more household name than Garage1217. Plan is to get the Ember anyways. I will add money of course since the Ember is more expensive new.


 

 i have an Ember.... With all the possibilities that is included and the sound ... i thanks each day Jeremy for this marvel at this price....  and no reviewer with these numerous possibilities to tweak the sound can have any negative i think in his right mind... The only upgrade possible is to pay one thousand dollars for more...No two ember sounded the same, pairing with this or that, with all the particular adjustment possible.....And i prefer the  open design because for the eyes with the choice of colours in the night i enjoy the sight of this new star in my room....


----------



## iancraig10

I would say that higher impedance headphones are better with it though.


----------



## Textfeud

iancraig10 said:


> I would say that higher impedance headphones are better with it though.




The Ember you mean? I will use my amp with the grado rs1i and also the adam artist 6 active speakers.


----------



## iancraig10

Both actually. I think they are better as far as noise levels go, although I have seen on here somewhere that someone plugs an iem into one of them and complains about noise.

I guess if you want to get rid of the noise, then an attenuation filter on the headphone plug would knock it on the head.

The noise shows on Grados for instance. It's a very low level hiss that higher impedance headphones won't produce. The Ember has the potential to be worse with a poor tube as well.


----------



## Textfeud

I don't have trouble with noise with the Polaris at all.


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> I think you'd be stepping backwards in sq by going to the as2 but that's just imo. I know someone who's had the as2, Polaris and Ember at the same time and the g1217 amps were a clear level above asg2. All using the he560 as hps.
> 
> Maybe someone will trade you outright with one of the older models but I think you'd have to sweeten the trade to go to an ember.


 

 I had a Lyr 2 here on a local try to buy deal. I had a Sunrise III to A-B with it. I ended up returning it and buying a second Sunrise III for my work setup instead. Even with multitude of tubes that I have got for the Sunrise, since I got the Polaris I have been using it just about exclusively in my home setup.
  
 I use it with my Hd 650, He 400i hp50, X1... etc. The Polaris just makes me smile when listening.


----------



## iancraig10

textfeud said:


> I don't have trouble with noise with the Polaris at all.




Try a dead quiet room. Put your headphones on with them plugged in and pull the plug out. You may notice just how low level it is, but just there with Grados.

Both give a tiny hiss on low impedance, but it needs to be very quiet to hear it.

I'm ocd about noise.


----------



## Nosgis

Would love to see the option for a metal chassis. I'm actually kind of holding out a purchase partly beacuse of this. Maybe a DIY project?


----------



## jexby

iancraig10 said:


> Try a dead quiet room. Put your headphones on with them plugged in and pull the plug out. You may notice just how low level it is, but just there with Grados.
> 
> Both give a tiny hiss on low impedance, but it needs to be very quiet to hear it.
> 
> I'm ocd about noise.




Ok, yes you may hear some hiss when music is not playing, which is very headphone dependent.
But that does not make the Polaris a noisy amp IMO.

My sensitive UM3X 124 db/mW have some hiss with volume up without music,
But that's likely due to more power than needed coming from amp, even on low gain.

Talk to Jeremy about that inbound attenuation module that can be swapped in/out on the rear of the board. C17 location.
Once I get lower power modules inserted, will report back on changes to background hiss.

Not pairing with Polaris with IEMs for long term, just awaiting cash for 400i or Oppo PM3 in 2015...


----------



## iancraig10

No, it's not a noisy amp. What I'm describing is something I listen out for as part of my work so I'm very 'attuned' to it. It's extremely low and only heard on low impedance headphones. I've heard worse from other amps.

I get rid of it by having attenuation on the headphone socket. Little adapters. That eliminates it.

I have both the Ember and Polaris and you know, I couldn't easily choose between them. The Ember has a slightly more entertaining sound, but I also like the relative cleanness of the Polaris as well.

They're the only two amps I use nowadays tbh. 

I use mainly Beyer dt990 and 770 with them. Also modified Fostex t40 and AKG612. Plus hd600 and 650. All sound great with them.

For low impedance, I've been using an O2 and a Neco bossfet which has much less gain.


----------



## jexby

1. What little headphone attenuator adapters do you use? I relocated a pair of 3.5mm 12dB and -24dB made via iFi for their nano product, will be trying those Tuesday.

2. instead of attenuator adapters on headphone out, why not try the different incoming attenuator modules in location C17 on the Polaris board?
Would the location difference of attenuation change sonic quality less/more ?


----------



## ericr

jexby said:


> 1.  ditto on Polaris not having the hype train of Schist amps.  too bad actually.  someone on FS forum is selling a Polaris and stated he'd trade for an Asgard 2.  pfft.




Looked in the FS section but didn't find this - could you post a link?

My Asgurd 2 has been sitting cold since my Ember arrived and a Polaris would be nice at work.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

There you go, but i think text is in Europe. 



textfeud said:


> That person is me. The Polaris doesn't create a lot of interest and the Asgard 2 does on the For Sale/For Trade forums. So that would mean I could try out the Asgard 2 and then sell it. I'm really after a tube amp. Would love to have the Project Ember if anyone is interested in a trade. Maybe someone wants solid state instead of tubes.







ericr said:


> Looked in the FS section but didn't find this - could you post a link?
> 
> My Asgurd 2 has been sitting cold since my Ember arrived and a Polaris would be nice at work.


----------



## iancraig10

jexby said:


> 1. What little headphone attenuator adapters do you use? I relocated a pair of 3.5mm 12dB and -24dB made via iFi for their nano product, will be trying those Tuesday.
> 
> 2. instead of attenuator adapters on headphone out, why not try the different incoming attenuator modules in location C17 on the Polaris board?
> Would the location difference of attenuation change sonic quality less/more ?




I have two. One came with some earbuds that I bought years ago and another is a cheap junky one, that I use to get rid of amp hiss on a cheap portable dab. This is the cheap one. It has a volume control so you can adjust the volume to the point where the hiss completely goes. The one that came with some (expensive) earbuds has no control. This is the cheap one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shure-Headphone-Adapter-adapter-airline/dp/B001P5HL3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419237168&sr=8-1&keywords=Headphone+attenuators

Also, Mike (Pink Floyd on RG) kindly made a full sized adapter for me a few years ago on a patch lead.

Attenuating the input side of the amp doesn't stop it. It remains constant; even on zero volume. However, it's SO slight that most wouldn't notice tbh. It's just that I can't help hearing tiny buzzes, clicks or hisses in recordings because I tend to look out for them in my work.

I just avoid using low impedance headphones tbh. I use a Neco Bossfet which isn't as goo if it bothers me, but normally, I'd use the bigger headphones. It's just Grado people I'm thinking of since they are very sensitive to noise. I have a few Grados myself and boy, do they point hiss out on anything!!!


----------



## Asr

soundsgoodtome said:


> Seriously, if Jeremy put the Polaris inside a nice aluminum chassis everyone would be losing their Schiit over them. (See what I did there?)  Anyways welcome to the club and enjoy one of the most undervalued/under-rated amps on the market.


 
  
 You really think an aluminum chassis would add that much to the Polaris? I personally don't care at all whether the amp is encased in metal or plastic or whatever and actually prefer the plexiglass myself, because being able to see the electronics is super cool. (And I really don't like how the Schiit amps look either. For aluminum chassis, I've always preferred the HeadAmp aesthetic over everything else.)
  
 IMO, most of the reason G1217 flies under the radar compared to Schiit is because Schiit has tons of marketing. And I don't mean the "word of mouth" on Head-Fi per se—Schiit actively markets their stuff around the Internet and at audio shows, and Jason Stoddard has a well-publicized blog on Head-Fi too, which is featured on the main page every time he posts an update. Compared to that, G1217 has practically nothing in terms of marketing, just the avid fans on a small number of online forums (mostly just here and DIY Audio).
  
 G1217 could take off if Jeremy put even a little bit of effort into marketing, like at least attending the Phoenix AZ meets regularly and sending loaner amps to major meets around the country. If he has the spare time, things could really take off if he started traveling to the major meets in the country....


----------



## Amish

I think Jeremy works a full time job though so traveling for meets and such might be hard. I'm pretty sure Garage1217 is a part time job for him but I could be wrong.
  
 I agree though that if he had the time to do it his amps would be more popular. I also agree that if they shipped in enclosed cases more people would be attracted to them and lastly I agree that the amps look killer as they are. But I think we might be the minority. If or when he does release an enclosure I will be first in line to buy one. I am having a hard time dealing with the dust lol. I use a cover but I have to admit I'd prefer not to.


----------



## Jakkal

So, Polaris has hiss with sensitive headphones? Is it audible within normal listening levels or above them?


----------



## iancraig10

No. At normal levels, you really wouldn't be aware of hiss. It's extremely low level and is there at zero volume. It's just that my ear tends to focus on tiny things like this as a matter of habit.

That's why I'm saying that higher impedance headphones are better with it. You get nothing then. Grado headphones show it ..... Just.

You have to hold your breath and make sure you're in a quiet room. It's easier to hear if you pull the plug out while the headphone is on your head. Then you become aware that it stopped.

Tbh, it really is nothing but someone mentioning that they were plugging an iem into it made me say that noise would be an issue. (And he found that it was)

In fact, it surprises me that people would want to use an iem at 16 ohms with one tbh. Just a mention because I know that there are lots of Grado users who may find similar if they have bat's hearing like me.

You could even mistake it for a form of tinnitus and think that it's your ears hissing. It's EXTREMLY low and nothing to worry about.

With higher impedance headphones, it doesn't exist.


----------



## Nosgis

I would love to see a metal case, but I would like the top of the chassis to be clear so we can see a little bit of the insides.


----------



## Textfeud

nosgis said:


> I would love to see a metal case, but I would like the top of the chassis to be clear so we can see a little bit of the insides.


 
 Yes, this


----------



## Jakkal

iancraig10 said:


> No. At normal levels, you really wouldn't be aware of hiss. It's extremely low level and is there at zero volume. It's just that my ear tends to focus on tiny things like this as a matter of habit.
> 
> That's why I'm saying that higher impedance headphones are better with it. You get nothing then. Grado headphones show it ..... Just.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the answer. Do you hear hiss with O2 as well?


----------



## iancraig10

No. The O2 is one of the quietest I've heard. It's not as powerful as the Ember or Polaris. In all honesty, I find the sound a little 'thin' with it though.

The reason the O2 is so quiet is to do with the way that the gain is set up. It can lead to more distortion so you have to be careful how much is going in.

I prefer the Ember and Polaris to the O2.


----------



## caracara08

I prefer the Ember to the O2 as well.  Sound is bigger and more dynamic.  the O2, in my opinion, sounded flat and thin.


----------



## iancraig10

That's what I find too. Polaris and Ember are a much nicer listen.


----------



## jexby

jakkal said:


> So, Polaris has hiss with sensitive headphones? Is it audible within normal listening levels or above them?


 
  
 found my 3.5mm -24dB attenuator (made by iFi vendor), plugged it into Polaris and using with NAD HP50 headphone.
 Polaris on low gain, no music playing, volume knob max -  no hiss or air!
 (even held my breathe and closed my eyes.)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 plugged in my sensitive IEMs (UM3X   124 dB/mW), and again volume knob cranked- no hiss or air!
 dead black background.  sounds great with these IEMs by the way, not as recessed of a sound.
  
 looking forward to Jeremy's inbound attenuator modules to slot into C18 on the board once they arrive.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, the attenuator in front of the headphone kills it stone dead. It's not bad, but a matter of time before someone notices it; especially if they're using iem devices with it. I just stay with higher impedance headphones though and use something else for Grados.

I don't want to give the wrong impression though. With Grados, it's BARELY there. It's just my own ocd habits with regards to noise..


----------



## HOWIE13

Thing I find with hiss is once you hear it you are always aware of it and with very quiet classical it can be a real pain.
 Fortunately, the only over ear headphone I hear hiss with is my HP100 (32 ohm). With my Horizon the solution is simple-just switch to a lower gain tube. 12AU7's are fine.
 With Polaris I increase the output impedance to the middle setting and the hiss is gone. Actually the HP100 sounds better balanced at this output impedance, anyway.
 Agree o2 amp has no hiss, but no passion and soul either, (at least compared to Garage 1217 amps).


----------



## iancraig10

Don't forget, I'm talking minutia here. My ear automatically tunes into hiss or hum since it can be such a pain to get rid of in recording once it's there.

I have ears that look for it but as you say, once you know it's there, you end up always hearing it.

I really like the sound of the Grados on high output impedance btw. They almost become a different headphone and I forget how uncomfortable the bowls are when listening this way.

I'm surprised no Grado fans have found this yet.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

asr said:


> *You really think an aluminum chassis would add that much to the Polaris?* I personally don't care at all whether the amp is encased in metal or plastic or whatever and actually prefer the plexiglass myself, because being able to see the electronics is super cool. (And I really don't like how the Schiit amps look either. For aluminum chassis, I've always preferred the HeadAmp aesthetic over everything else.)
> 
> IMO, most of the reason G1217 flies under the radar compared to Schiit is because Schiit has tons of marketing. And I don't mean the "word of mouth" on Head-Fi per se—Schiit actively markets their stuff around the Internet and at audio shows, and Jason Stoddard has a well-publicized blog on Head-Fi too, which is featured on the main page every time he posts an update. Compared to that, G1217 has practically nothing in terms of marketing, just the avid fans on a small number of online forums (mostly just here and DIY Audio).
> 
> G1217 could take off if Jeremy put even a little bit of effort into marketing, like at least attending the Phoenix AZ meets regularly and sending loaner amps to major meets around the country. If he has the spare time, things could really take off if he started traveling to the major meets in the country....


 
 Not really but if Jeremy wants to make money even if it costs him less, why not? The sound and features do warrant a heftier price tag after all. Maybe on the metal chassis version all the jumpers would go to switches?

 As long as the plexi versions stay the same price of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like the clear top with the LED


----------



## Nosgis

It's possible for an optional metal chassis to include a see through top plate too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I really hope to see this option sometime in the (near) future.


----------



## mandrake50

iancraig10 said:


> I have two. One came with some earbuds that I bought years ago and another is a cheap junky one, that I use to get rid of amp hiss on a cheap portable dab. This is the cheap one. It has a volume control so you can adjust the volume to the point where the hiss completely goes. The one that came with some (expensive) earbuds has no control. This is the cheap one.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shure-Headphone-Adapter-adapter-airline/dp/B001P5HL3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419237168&sr=8-1&keywords=Headphone+attenuators
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. The only Grados that I have are old SR 80s. I hear no hiss with the Polaris. I plugged in my Re 600s and still hear nothing. Of course my amp is not your amp...and my ears are not your ears.
 My RF environment is not your RF environment... my power supply is not your power supply.. lots of differences.
  
 Of course, with the RE 400s, the background noise on a GO 450 made me crazy... so I am sensitive to some level of background noise. Apparently much higher levels than my Polaris exhibits!
  
 The thing is, when using the Geek Out 450, I really noticed nothing objectionable when actually listening to music. True, I don't fixate on that kind of thing as apparently you do. The point is, I don't think that most folks would hear any noise from a Polaris.. especially when actually listening to music.
 That is the problem with this kind of thread... somebody says something is there for them... and all of a sudden everyone freaks out about it... curious, but true!


----------



## Amish

Yeah I've not heard any hiss at all from my Polaris and I am sensitive to any noises that shouldn't be there. The Polaris is dead quiet unless I turn the volume to the max and at that point (music off of course) I can hear some noise. The noise is super low though compared to lets say my HK amp when doing the same thing.
  
 The Ember on the other hand was dead silent even with the volume maxed out.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Well...now I will try my Havi B6 and KEF M200s later tonight. You guys got me curious, of course the HE560 won't have said hiss. I don't recall my Senngrado headphones having them too, I'll bring that home as well to test.


----------



## mandrake50

soundsgoodtome said:


> Well...now I will try my Havi B6 and KEF M200s later tonight. You guys got me curious, of course the HE560 won't have said hiss. I don't recall my Senngrado headphones having them too, I'll bring that home as well to test.


 

 Just to qualify what I said... I never even tried to hear noise with every thing maxed out. That is not the way I listen to music. I only tried to hear noise at a level that I would listen to music. Yeah, I Have some decent audio gear... I don't recall anything that I have had access to that I could not hear...something... at max volume with my ear jammed into a speaker... never ever over many years of screwing with this stuff!
 If I turned on some source at that level... it would have broken my ear drums...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

No worries, I know much better than to pipe some music from the source with the volume at max with IEMs.

 Can someone answer if using a TRRS (4 contact 3.5mm plug) on a TRS socket can damage anything? This is how my KEF M200 is wired with a built-in mic and controls.


----------



## iancraig10

To clarify. It's minute. It also doesn't move with the volume control. You can hear it at zero and it gets no louder with volume. In order to hear it, I disconnect the headphone while wearing them and then you are aware that it's gone!! The room needs to be dead quiet.

It wouldn't interfere with normal listening but a very sharp eared Grado user might just spot it and I know there are many Grado people here. Most people would tune it out. (Like tinnitus)

I don't fixate on the noise though. (God forbid) however, my job kind of makes me 'look' for it. You're just aware that it's switched on, that's all. 

One thing I could try though is upping the output impedance on 32 ohm headphones. That might get rid of it totally perhaps. Mind you, I rarely use low impedance headphones on any of them in any case tbh. 

I was going to talk to Frans about it, but tbh, it's so low level that it's not really worth it.


----------



## iancraig10

I switched the output impedance! and The hiss has entirely gone. So, with low impedance headphones it is necessary if you want to totally eliminate noise to slightly raise the output impedance. Tbh, Grado headphone sound also improves imo.

I've also found that taking the jumpers off entirely eliminates it.

I've contacted Frans who will be able to explain what is happening.

Let me repeat though, we're talking good quality studio microphone levels of hiss......

ie; Very low. Just if you want 'inky' black silence on low impedance headphones!!


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> I switched the output impedance! and The hiss has entirely gone. So, with low impedance headphones it is necessary if you want to totally eliminate noise to slightly raise the output impedance. Tbh, Grado headphone sound also improves imo.
> 
> I've also found that taking the jumpers off entirely eliminates it.
> 
> ...


 
 Any effect on the sound? Generally I find increasing the output impedance lowers the volume and warms up the sound a bit-which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the recording and the headphones in question. I wonder if removing the jumpers defaults to high output impedance.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> I switched the output impedance! and The hiss has entirely gone. So, with low impedance headphones it is necessary if you want to totally eliminate noise to slightly raise the output impedance. Tbh, Grado headphone sound also improves imo.
> 
> I've also found that taking the jumpers off entirely eliminates it.
> 
> ...


 
 I tried to learn about 'hiss' a few months ago and found it terribly complicated. There isn't even a definition to ensure everyone is talking about the same thing. I completely acknowledge the very quiet hiss you describe as I have heard the identical noise. I presumed it's the noise of the current in the circuit being high due to the low impedance of the phones, coupled with such phones often having relatively high sensitivity. Doubtless it's much more complicated than that- it will be interesting to learn what Frans says.


----------



## Textfeud

I found a Mad Ear + HD for my RS1, so I'm selling the Polaris for real now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will keep an eye on this thread nevertheless


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

On the he560 the middle impedance setting seem to add a nice decay effect, making the Polaris mimic a tube almost. 





howie13 said:


> Any effect on the sound? Generally I find increasing the output impedance lowers the volume and warms up the sound a bit-which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the recording and the headphones in question. I wonder if removing the jumpers defaults to high output impedance.


----------



## BRMSlash

For my HD598's (50ohm with 300ohm@100Hz spike) on the Polaris - Low R lacks bass but the general sound is louder, Mid R raises the bass and makes the overall sound more balanced and slightly quieter, High R dulls the overall sound and isn't as airy and needs the gain bumped up to improve the speed.  Removing the jumper doesn't sound any different to the High R setting, so I'd say it defaults to High R.
  
 After spending more time with the amp I've found that WO Attenuation opens the sound up more.  I've also changed back to Mid R with Low Gain.
  
 I've pretty much sorted out the harshness I was hearing, basically it was my source (PC with XonarDX modded with OP1602) running at too high a bit depth.  I lowered the bit depth back to 16bit and it's calmed right down, so I guess there is some high frequency issue with re-sampling.  Now I've got Foobar2k running with ASIO output instead of WASAPI (event) to try and eliminate bit depth problems.


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> I tried to learn about 'hiss' a few months ago and found it terribly complicated. There isn't even a definition to ensure everyone is talking about the same thing. I completely acknowledge the very quiet hiss you describe as I have heard the identical noise. I presumed it's the noise of the current in the circuit being high due to the low impedance of the phones, coupled with such phones often having relatively high sensitivity. Doubtless it's much more complicated than that- it will be interesting to learn what Frans says.




Exactly so Howie. The level that I'm describing is very low. About as much as a good microphone produces, but in recordings, the use of more and more mics compounds the problem.

Raising impedance does alter the Grado sound. In fact, I prefer the Grados with high output impedance tbh. They mellow a little. The effect isn't the same for all headphones though, but as luck would have it, Grados are actually quite nice like this!!

I did contact Frans and he explained it all, as he always does, really clearly. He's absolutely great in this respect as well. Very open and honest.

His reply

The tube is the cause of evil in the Ember, perhaps another tube may lower the hiss level.
It is caused by the tubes working on a low voltage.
Because of this very high (internal) impedances are present, this combined with low currents produces noise.
In the Polaris the FET is the cause.
FET opamps are low noise but this is because they are in differential mode and the feedback removes noise.
In the Polaris it is emulating a tube (about similar characteristics) and needs to do all amplification.

The noise level is very low (as you mentioned).
Some people even use the amp on sensitive IEM's.

The output R jumpers act as voltage dividers as well for low impedance headphones so that will attenuate the signal + noise by many dB's.
The 120 Ohm setting is actually just a 'parking space' for the jumper.
It does not do anything so removing the jumper = 120 Ohm.

The high output power it can give in low impedance headphones is there to suit ortho's.
As these are less sensitive the noise won't be audible as it is below the audible threshold.

For sensitive (high efficiency) low impedance headphones, intended to play loud on 'EU regulated' portable stuff and phones the hiss may just be audible.

The problem for people like you and me is once you hear it you keep hearing it (on sensitive headphones), the same with hum.
It's something I always want to get rid off as it isn't needed.
However, in this case the maximum S/N ratio is reached and there is little that can be done except perhaps making an 'adapter' with a low output R and a lot of attenuation for sensitive headphones. It'll also protect the sensitive ones that have a power rating <100mW.


This is me again .........

So Frans is saying that the cure, if you actually get it is to do as I was doing and connect resistance on the headphone out or raise the output impedance.

Something I really like about Frans is how he just says things as it is with no 'flowers' on top. Even with his own designs. He's brilliant at saying it as it is!!!

I have to say as well ..... These amps are absolute stunning value. They work extraordinarily well for the price paid and I've loved the sound of every one of 'em since the first Sunrise was sent to me for a listen. Loved them all from the start, but for me,the Ember and Polaris are really the cream on the top with. The configurability. The idea that an. Amp can be slightly altered to suit headphones better works really well. Not to mention the amazing work that Frans has done on taking lumps and bumps out of the frequency responses of many headphones so that they are really quite flat, via the use of his filters.

It just doesn't get much better for guys on a budget tbh.


----------



## HOWIE13

I guess I am fortunate as well that my HP100's sound better at higher output impedance settings.


----------



## bjamn

I'm thinking of putting a "better" DAC in front of my Polaris, and posted this question in the Schiit Modi 2 thread. Maybe it makes sense to ask here, too...
  
 Would it be worth using a Modi 2 with a macbook pro retina (2012)? And should it be the optical version? I've heard the MBP actually has a decent DAC, but it's the only part of the chain I haven't tinkered with yet. I've just been using the headphone out to an amp.
  
 lossless -> audirvana -> [DAC] -> project polaris -> he-400i -> brain
  
 Opinions welcome! Thx
 .


----------



## Jakkal

@iancraig10
  
 Thanks a lot for the info.
  
  
 Quote:


bjamn said:


> I'm thinking of putting a "better" DAC in front of my Polaris, and posted this question in the Schiit Modi 2 thread. Maybe it makes sense to ask here, too...
> 
> Would it be worth using a Modi 2 with a macbook pro retina (2012)? And should it be the optical version? I've heard the MBP actually has a decent DAC, but it's the only part of the chain I haven't tinkered with yet. I've just been using the headphone out to an amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is better to put a DAC between the Polaris and the MBP, otherwise you just double amping the headphone out of your MBP.
 I thing is better to buy a good USB DAC, if implemented right there should be no difference between optical and USB as far as I know. 
 You can take a look at the highly regarded Dacport Lx or Music Streamer. Of course Modi 2 is also an option.


----------



## jexby

bjamn said:


> I'm thinking of putting a "better" DAC in front of my Polaris, and posted this question in the Schiit Modi 2 thread. Maybe it makes sense to ask here, too...
> 
> Would it be worth using a Modi 2 with a macbook pro retina (2012)? And should it be the optical version? I've heard the MBP actually has a decent DAC, but it's the only part of the chain I haven't tinkered with yet. I've just been using the headphone out to an amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 the macbook pro does NOT have a decent DAC.
 it will easily be bested by the Modi 2.   use USB from your macbook pro into modi 2.
  
  
 my present DAC feeding Polaris alternates between Concero HD and iFi micro iDSD.
  
 HE-400i on my radar as well, nice match to Polaris you have started there.


----------



## bjamn

Thanks for the replies! Yeah, the Modi 2 is definitely on my list now. I'm going to order the optical (I think) and wait until January for stock. Although maybe I'll just get a usb hub, and then I won't have another power cord to deal with! Decisions...
  
@jexby Yeah, I'm loving the 400i with the Polaris. (Jeremy at G1217 was very helpful.) After the carousel of HP's I've been through in the last year, I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere I wanted to be!
  
  
 Quote:


jexby said:


> the macbook pro does NOT have a decent DAC.
> it will easily be bested by the Modi 2.   use USB from your macbook pro into modi 2.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jakkal said:


> It is better to put a DAC between the Polaris and the MBP, otherwise you just double amping the headphone out of your MBP.
> I thing is better to buy a good USB DAC, if implemented right there should be no difference between optical and USB as far as I know.
> You can take a look at the highly regarded Dacport Lx or Music Streamer. Of course Modi 2 is also an option.


----------



## bjamn

Does anyone know where to get a shelf unit/rack for the polaris? The ideal would be something small, with a couple shelves, that sits on the desktop. DAC on bottom, Polaris on top. It seems like I've seen something around on head-fi, but I can't seem to find it now!


----------



## jexby

Also interested.
dont want Polaris sitting directly on top of Concero HD.


----------



## bavinck

Looking to order a Polaris but not sure which bandwidth option to select, aggressive or mellow. Planning in using this amp mainly with dt770,hd600 and k7xx headphone. Thanks!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

bavinck said:


> Looking to order a Polaris but not sure which bandwidth option to select, aggressive or mellow. Planning in using this amp mainly with dt770,hd600 and k7xx headphone. Thanks!


 
 Are you asking which jumper setting to use or which build to get from Jeremy? From my understanding he's only building the later version and not the mellower early units.. could be wrong though, of course.


----------



## bavinck

On his website for ordering a built one he gives the option of aggressive vs mellow. Any thoughts?


----------



## jexby

Wow, I didn't realize the bandwidth were at "build time" options.

There are 3 jumpers on the Polaris board for:
 High / Med / Low
Bandwidth already.

Now even I would like to know the differences....
Thanks.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

bavinck said:


> On his website for ordering a built one he gives the option of aggressive vs mellow. Any thoughts?


 
  


jexby said:


> Wow, I didn't realize the bandwidth were at "build time" options.
> 
> There are 3 jumpers on the Polaris board for:
> High / Med / Low
> ...


 

 If you want a setting that WON'T cut any frequency purposely (not by the amp's warm design) then go for the aggressive. The amp is naturally warm so between the two, aggressive will give you the most 'audiophile' sound while still retaining a FET sound. If you like a mellow sound or you find your phones sibilant on a lot of your recordings, then a mellow unit might be a good way. The difference in the measurements registers in the upper-most frequencies (above 10K) but it does effect sounds within 10K IMO, so we're not talking a night/day difference here. However a transparent headphone will show the difference between H-BW and L-BW (like the HE560) and could be the difference between being able to stand a track or album with bad production and finding it unbearable.

 I have a mellow build (bought mine when there was no option of aggressive or mellow) and find it a nice combo with the HE560 and DX100 as a source (Sabre DAC). However I do wonder what aggressive can do for the 560... and if it effects things like imaging/soundstage/depth as well. Good thing with G1217 is they have one of the best customer service if not THE BEST customer service experience I've had in this hobby. They said if I ever wanted to go aggressive to shoot them an email, I might still take them up on that one day.


----------



## iancraig10

I think all amps ship with aggressive settings now. 

Wide bandwidth is basically 'off'. You are hearing the amp as it is.
The other two settings roll off the treble to a lesser and greater extent, depending on which one you choose.

Frans originally designed the amp with mild settings, not wanting to change the sound too much but this was later changed so that they are more easily heard on 'glassy' headphones where they take some of the 'sting' out of sibilance. On the old version, I think the low setting is the same as the mid setting on the new.

There was loads of squawking when Jeremy decided to change to the 'aggressive' setting because the lowest setting wasn't available on the first batch of Polaris so Jeremy offered to change the settings for them. Many people don't use the low setting in any case though.

It may be that Jeremy is offering the choice now while he still has the milder versions but the mid settings are exactly the same.

Personally, I'd go aggressive ...... You'll probably mostly use it on wide bandwidth in any case tbh. The mid setting is useful for sharp sounding headphones but so far, I haven't really felt the need to use the low bandwidth a great deal.

This is what Frans felt might happen - that most wouldn't use the low setting; especially if it rolls away the top quite a bit. They are very effective though and some may like the low bandwidth setting.

With the bandwidth, the output impedance stays the same so bass remains as it was, although impedance doesn't always work the same with all headphones.

In effect, the bandwidth is being used almost as a tone control.


----------



## Rudiger

How can we know if we have an aggressive or a mellow version of the Polaris ?


----------



## iancraig10

You can always ask Jeremy when you order. He's absolutely up front.

I didn't think he was shipping the older version though.


----------



## jexby

Jeremy responded to me in minutes.  mine is the aggressive Polaris, and he stated that 99.9% of Polaris shipped are also this by default.
  
 now, do we have any graphs how the on-board-jumpers
  High BW / Mid BW / Low BW
 perform?


----------



## iancraig10

Post 244.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725896/new-from-garage1217-the-solid-state-project-polaris/240


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Wow, I have a 0.1% unit! Jeremy said he'd mod it to aggressive if I send it in.



jexby said:


> Jeremy responded to me in minutes.  mine is the aggressive Polaris, and he stated that 99.9% of Polaris shipped are also this by default.
> 
> now, do we have any graphs how the on-board-jumpers
> High BW / Mid BW / Low BW
> perform?


----------



## iancraig10

Jeremy is a really helpful guy and he did say that he'd mod older ones. It's not a massive difference in all honesty. Full bandwidth is the same. The low bandwidth rolls away a bit more, that's all.


----------



## BRMSlash

I've got an aggressive version (cuts more treble), but if I had my time again I'd go mellow. Low bandwidth on aggressive cuts too much treble and air for my headphones (HD598). During tweaking I'd much prefer an in-between setting, which is what the mellow would give me.


----------



## iancraig10

This is one of the things that Frans felt. That's why he set it with milder settings, since he felt that not many would want to use the more aggressive setting.

I leave mine on wide bandwidth with HD650., DT990, DT770, K612.

The DT770 and K612 are mellowed quite nicely with the mid setting, but I rarely would use the low bandwidth as well.


----------



## bavinck

From the garage 1217 website:
"When we launch something totally different vs. the rest of the world (we seem to do that once in a while) confusion is bound to happen and changes are bound to occur. This concerns our bandwidth feature and is the next area of confusion that is flying around the interwebs. Facts:
I setup the roll off points in the bandwidth setting per my ears and what I wanted. On paper, these roll off rather early to help tame treble on certain headphones. The graphs freak some people out as the roll of points (mainly on low - the medium setting is mellowish) look aggressive. So we call this the Aggressive bandwidth option. Mind you, you will just be able to actually hear the mid setting, however the low setting is definitely noticable.
Frans, our super engineer - equally evil mad scientist came up with his own settings and roll off points for what he desired. His settings are from more of a technical standpoint vs. audible standpoint. These settings are what he likes and feels are best per his intentions and intended use. The low roll off point in Frans settings, virtually equals our mid roll off point. We call all this the mellow bandwidth option.

So instead of arguing, we decided to let the individual choose. neither option is wrong and both can clip some of the harshness on certain headphones. The aggressive setting just clip it more drastically."

Based on this and what your guys are saying I am kind of leaning towards the mellow setting.


----------



## Jakkal

I also thing that the Mellow settings is the best option, because that's how the amp was design originally and here is the  explanation why by the designer (Frans) :
  


> .......
> 
> Another thing I changed is the bandwidth setting.
> Jeremy wanted to use the bandwidth to lower treble on treble happy headphones and thus made the low and medium bandwidth setting a bit too much (IMO)
> ...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Team Mellow!


----------



## bavinck

Soundsgood, do you have a dt770?if so, how does it sound on the mellow Polaris?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I don't have the dt770, no but I would assume it's a good pairing considering the Beyer sound needing warmth most of the time. First hand experience is another story though...

Which then I ask, IanC, how do you like the polaris and hd650? Do you prefer the 650 on another rig with a tube perhaps?


----------



## bavinck

Just paid my dues to join team mellow!


----------



## iancraig10

I like the HD650 very much on both the Polaris and Ember actually. The Ember makes it a bit more 'lively' with its rubbery tube sound and the Polaris is a fraction 'cleaner' sounding, so you feel less guilty listening to it

They are both luxurious sounding to me.

The idea of bringing down the top on the DT770 is interesting. I Use a DT 770 as well sometimes (amongsts loads of others) but I imagine that the 770 will become a freaking bass monster with that treble lowered. The top kind of balances with the bottom imo.

I use the HD650 at low output impedance and full bandwidth.

One that can benefit from medium bandwidth is the AKG612. I also li,e the output impedance a little higher. It becomes quite a bit calmer then in the top end. Easier on the ears. Also, the k550 is nicer at higher output impedance. (Although mine has been modded by Solderdude so the treble peak is way reduced)


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Good to know! Always thought the hd650 may be overly warm with a g1217 amp but from what you say I may visit that road sometime this year.


----------



## iancraig10

It is curious given the hd650 sound sig. I also found one of the earlier Little Dot amps worked well with it as well! 

Maybe I just like a warm sound? I do use the k612 and k550 as well though.


----------



## willowbrook

Hi guys, I just want to ask a little question. Does polaris come with 1/4" jack input? It looks like the jack is 1/8", but I've heard that it is 1/4". Can anyone confirm please?
 Also, very looking forward to using polaris with HE-560!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

willowbrook said:


> Hi guys, I just want to ask a little question. Does polaris come with 1/4" jack input? It looks like the jack is 1/8", but I've heard that it is 1/4". Can anyone confirm please?
> Also, very looking forward to using polaris with HE-560!


 
 Definitely a 1/4" or 6.3mm. You'll need an adapter to use a 1/8" or 3.5mm.


----------



## willowbrook

soundsgoodtome said:


> Definitely a 1/4" or 6.3mm. You'll need an adapter to use a 1/8" or 3.5mm.


 
 Thank you. I was looking to buy an adapter because it looked so small haha. I guess I'm fine without it.


----------



## money4me247

willowbrook said:


> Thank you. I was looking to buy an adapter because it looked so small haha. I guess I'm fine without it.


 
 also, most nice headphones that require amping will come with their own adapters to 1/4", so you should be fine for future headphone purchases as well


----------



## findcount

is there a mini-jack input that can be used as a 2nd source input ?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Single input only via rca plugs.





findcount said:


> is there a mini-jack input that can be used as a 2nd source input ?


----------



## findcount

soundsgoodtome said:


> Single input only via rca plugs.


 
 many thanks.......that's not good news...
  
 has anyone compared the Polaris to the Lovely Cube ?....both are roughly same price but the Lovely Cube seems to offer more in terms of physical size and parts..........it can accept audiophile ac cords too......it has a bigger power supply too...........


----------



## mandrake50

findcount said:


> many thanks.......that's not good news...
> 
> has anyone compared the Polaris to the Lovely Cube ?....both are roughly same price but the Lovely Cube seems to offer more in terms of physical size and parts..........it can accept audiophile ac cords too......it has a bigger power supply too...........


 

 I simply use a 1/8" plug or standard 1/4" phone plug to RCA cable when required. I have never found this to be any problem.
  I have never used a Lovely Cube, but part count or size of the power supply may not be very important. You only need enough power supply for the design of the amp.  "Audiophile" AC cords... hmmmm for an under 5 watt amp?
  
 Anyway the sound is what is important. Maybe you should get one of each and let us know what you think. I would be interested. The pricing looks attractive on the Cube device.


----------



## findcount

don't know why head amps only mostly got a single input........considering how much they cost unlike similar-priced speaker amps
  
 I was considering the Lovely Cube since it could be ordered with a 2nd input.............


----------



## mandrake50

findcount said:


> don't know why head amps only mostly got a single input........considering how much they cost unlike similar-priced speaker amps
> 
> I was considering the Lovely Cube since it could be ordered with a 2nd input.............


 

 Not sure on that either. Cost maybe? It is all about what is important to you. There is much talk here about synergy and sound quality. These are my priorities. If getting those means having to swap cables to use different upstream components, I just deal with it. Of course that is just me.
  
 I am curious now about the Cube. Not sure that interest is enough to buy one, but for the price and features it does sound interesting.
 OTH, I know what I have with the Polaris, and I know that I like it!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

A single input is fine for my use, my dac has multiple inputs that allows me to connect different devices to it. Plus an a/b audio switch can be bought for really cheap. 

The Cube is coming from overseas where as the Polaris is local here in the USA. Warranty help is super easy where sending a brick to China is a crap shoot.


----------



## Rudiger

The more I listen to the Polaris the more I love it !
 The day Jeremy made a Dac (also compatible USB 1.1), I do not even ask myself to buy it or not...


----------



## jexby

rudiger said:


> The day Jeremy made a Dac (also compatible USB 1.1), I do not even ask myself to buy it or not...


 
  
 +1
 I echo your confidence!  
  
 but I also don't think a DAC is on their roadmap?


----------



## Amish

jexby said:


> +1
> I echo your confidence!
> 
> but I also don't think a DAC is on their roadmap?


 

 Who knows what those guys are cooking up?! I wouldn't be shocked by a Garage1217 DAC. What I want more than anything is a bigger tube amp. I expect I might be waiting for a long time though.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

amish said:


> Who knows what those guys are cooking up?! I wouldn't be shocked by a Garage1217 DAC. What I want more than anything is a bigger tube amp. I expect I might be waiting for a long time though.


 

 Maybe a full-on tube amp?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now that would be interesting from G1217 but their current line-up stellar as it is.


----------



## Jakkal

rudiger said:


> The more I listen to the Polaris the more I love it !
> The day Jeremy made a Dac (also compatible USB 1.1), I do not even ask myself to buy it or not...


 
 + 2
 I was thinking the same thing the other day, because I need a DAC for my Polaris. Maybe we should let them know that there is interest in GarageDac.


----------



## iancraig10

I've passed it on.


----------



## Drrizzt

Maybe there will be an occansion for them to reveal the fact that there is no need to pay thousand $$$ for a good dac...because the internal chips are very CHEAP to produce. Good dac are so overpriced :/


----------



## iancraig10

Well, Frans doesn't want to produce anything that's rough. He replied....


problem is that if you really want to make a GOOD and capable DAC that suits the Garage 1217 range this isn't going to be a bog standard one.
You know the simple single or dual chip USB powered thingies from $30 to $ 150.-
Everything other than that is difficult to make without programming tools etc. and will take a lot of prototypes.
I see no point in using a simple DAC chip and USB chip (or even combined) and putting it on a board.
I would want galvanic separation, good clocks, separated power supplies and capable DAC chips and capable of at least 32/368 + DSD.

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris?page=6#ixzz3O4m8la7i


----------



## bavinck

Personally, I would rather stick with the ODAC and have him focus on designing awesome amps.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

bavinck said:


> Personally, I would rather stick with the ODAC and have him focus on designing awesome amps.


 

 +1, there are many great DAC choices out there already at great prices. I mean if they do want to try their hand in the DAC game then sure but I say keep making the winning hybrid/SS amps. Maybe a non-hybrid is the next logical step?


----------



## bavinck

Ya, I would love to see what they do with a full tube.


----------



## Amish

bavinck said:


> Ya, I would love to see what they do with a full tube.


 
 +1
  
 But I'd settle for a new tube hybrid that is a step up from Ember (which I love by the way)


----------



## jexby

amish said:


> +1
> 
> But I'd settle for a new tube hybrid that is a step up from Ember (which I love by the way)


 
  
 In your Amp Designer's opinion:  what elements of Ember could be "stepped up"?
 DC inputs fed by LPS?
 1 tube per channel ?
 different op-amps or gain stage ?
  
 just wondering, as I don't have Ember.  but am playing around a lot with Polaris lately.


----------



## Jakkal

bavinck said:


> Ya, I would love to see what they do with a full tube.


 
  
 Maybe your wish will come true very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> We have a mystery amplifier being released soon, titled Project Solstice. This should be released by the end of the month. We are not letting the cat out of the bag just yet - she will be our surprise for 2015!


----------



## jaxz

Hi. Anyone compared the Polaris and the NFB 15 with HiFiMAN Planars?

 Cheers!


----------



## bavinck

Anyone use the polaris with an X2 yet? I am and trying to find the best settings for it. WHat settings are you using? So far it seems like a good pairing.


----------



## BRMSlash

Just tried my RE-400 IEM's with the Polaris and I'm loving the sound. With the Gain bumped up to the middle setting, they have a really nice mid grind going on.

I've also decided to mod my amp to Mellow BW specs. Just awaiting some parts now. I also have a suspicion that I need to customise the attenuation module to try sort out the slight treble harshness/sibilance I'm hearing. I find the stock 10k's muffle the high end too much, at least when using my PC as the source. So I've ordered some lower value resistors to see if that helps. Hopefully it'll all be done in a few weeks.


----------



## Jakkal

bavinck said:


> Anyone use the polaris with an X2 yet? I am and trying to find the best settings for it. WHat settings are you using? So far it seems like a good pairing.




The settings I'm using for my L2 and other low impedance, normal sesetivity headphones are: Low G, W-A, Low R, High BW.


----------



## richbass

Is this a good upgrade for a person who already has Ember?


----------



## Jakkal

richbass said:


> Is this a good upgrade for a person who already has Ember?


 
 Search the tread for Ember, you'll find a lot of posts.


----------



## iancraig10

I'd say a 'side step' not an upgrade. The Ember is more tube like where the Polaris is cleaner sounding with a hint of tubiness.

I have both and I'd say that the Ember is a more 'fun' sounding amp in comparison to the Polaris.

I do tend to use the Polaris more though!!!

Maybe I'm a miserable old git?


----------



## ericr

They are very close and Iancraig puts it well as a "side step". 

Soundsgoodtome lives nearby and was kind enough to lend me his Polaris for a week to compare to my Ember. It was excellent and very near in sound to the Ember, though for me the Ember won out by a bit. As said by others, slightly improved clarity in the highs with the Polaris, but with a Westinghouse charcoal plate 12AU7 tube the Ember had a bit more bass and sub bass extension. My V6-Stage already have lots of detail so the Ember is my pick of the two.

Now that I'm considering a second amp for work it's a difficult choice - is that slight bass advantage worth the extra $100+ the Ember costs over the Polaris???


----------



## iancraig10

Something new is in the works... 
Ember had a baby brother... the Starlight.
At first it started out as a Starlight replacement that would be even cheaper.
Why compromise was the idea so it 'grew' into this design.
Now it will have a sybling inbetween the Ember and Starlight.
Starlight may eventually disappear, we don't know yet.
It will have less functions than Ember and less power for higher impedance headphones and about the same power as Ember for low imp headphones.
Also it can take 7V tubes, 6V and 12V tubes and is suited for 6SN7 and 12SN7 tubes.
It will have autobias but manual heater select, it can not function as a pre-amp and the input C can not be bypassed.
It will have 3 output R's 0.1, 33, 68
Still in testing phase though and no idea if and when it will be launched, some things need to be tweaked.
Price will be between Ember and starlight.

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember?page=43#ixzz3Oe1e0Pan


----------



## Drrizzt

I assume everybody got the Email from Jeremy, talkig about a "Soltice" stuff that he asked us to keep under the wraps


----------



## bavinck

Seems like iancraig kinda let the cat out of the bag if not lol


----------



## iancraig10

Well, it was Frans who told me!!


----------



## Amish

hahaha
  
  
 I prefer the Ember over the polaris every day of the week. Running a bugle boy 12AX7 bring more bass and more highs plus a more holographic sound.
  
 I agree with ian though as it would be more a side step than an upgrade. In fact if you have the Ember i wouldn't buy the Polaris at all unless you actually need a second amp.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Anyone have any details on the linear power supply G1217 is suppose to be making for their amps?


----------



## Amish

No comment.


----------



## thecrow

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]





jexby said:


> my present DAC feeding Polaris alternates between Concero HD and iFi micro iDSD




Hi Jexby. 

I see you have the have the he560s, Polaris and micro idsd. 

How does the amp of the idsd compare to the Polaris?

I'm looking at either picking up an hd800 or he560 in the very near future (final auditions this week, perhaps) and am sussing out suitable amps that aren't too Expensive. 

I've been looking at audio gds (eg compass 2), Asgard 2, O2, if i micro idsd and tonight I've stumbled across the Polaris due to some reference in some thread I was reading somewhere on headfi. 

The power of these amps appears to be something I want to get right, particularly with the he560, and I'm looking for amps not adding much colour. 

I've been considering dac/amp combos or an entry point of good dacs and simlar or slightly better amp. I started thinking of a budget around ($300 or close) but not too concerned if sneaks up a bit, but still closer to 500 than 1000

Peter


----------



## Jakkal

thecrow said:


> Hi Jexby.
> 
> I see you have the have the he560s, Polaris and micro idsd.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Polaris is much better than the amp section in the Audio-gd Compass 2/NFB-11/15 and is much more versatile and customizable. For Asgard and O2 you can search the tread, but most opinions are that the Polaris is better. Also IMO is the most beautiful of them all.


----------



## Drrizzt

The general opinion about the o² is that the amp is ultra neutral and transparen and let the headphones sounds like it should be. I'd like to try it paired with the he-500 once, because i feel the Polaris rock solid on the low end, probably a little boossted there, plus the little distortion like a tube added to it.


----------



## jexby

thecrow said:


> Hi Jexby.
> 
> I see you have the have the he560s, Polaris and micro idsd.
> 
> ...


 
  
 personally haven't heard O2 ever, nor Audio GD.  (not missing much there I suspect.)
 and my Asgard 2 is long gone years ago.
 but,
  
 I'd easily take a dedicated Polaris Amp connected to the iDSD micro, as the amp inside the iDSD is good.  but not great.
 the Polaris power (low or high) and the flexibility of some rolloff in the Polaris makes it amazing sounds for about any headphone I'd imagine.
 there is a bit of warmth in this SS amp as others have mentioned, makes for a long term no fatigue listen.
 soundstage in Polaris is also wide and natural sounding, whereas the amp section of iDSD micro is more narrow.
  
  
 love my iDSD micro alone when on the road or around the house, but in desktop mode connected to a dedicated amp (like Lyr 2 also) it really makes a perfect combo.


----------



## thecrow

Thanks for getting back jexby 

Did you have to use the Polaris in higher gains for the he560? If so how did that all sound - is there some compromises in that?

And do think that could work with a dac such as the odac or one of the lower priced schiit? I've read mixed views on the modi 

Ta
Peter t


----------



## thecrow

Thanks jakkal for the reply. 

As my question above, any ideas on relatively inexpensive but fair/decent dacs (for now)?


----------



## Jakkal

thecrow said:


> Thanks jakkal for the reply.
> 
> As my question above, any ideas on relatively inexpensive but fair/decent dacs (for now)?


 
  
 For start you can get HiFimeDIY Sabre DAC. It is very good for the price and many say it is indistinguishable from ODAC.
 http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/sabre-dac-uae23
 There is also asynchronous version of it, with better receiver and Asio driver.
 http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/U2-DAC


----------



## richard51

jakkal said:


> For start you can get HiFimeDIY Sabre DAC. It is very good for the price and many say it is indistinguishable from ODAC.
> http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/sabre-dac-uae23
> There is also asynchronous version of it, with better receiver and Asio driver.
> http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/U2-DACi am with your recommendation


 
 i support your recommendation..... the asynch version is better to my ears   ... i had owned the two...and i use it now with the hifimediy isolator ... this dac is also an optical link now with my bushmaster dac.... very useful dac this hifimedy .... i dont use it anymore for dac but it is a very organic sounding dac....no comparison with the Aune t 1 dac for me with the hifiman he 400.... best regards


----------



## thecrow

jakkal said:


> For start you can get HiFimeDIY Sabre DAC. It is very good for the price and many say it is indistinguishable from ODAC.
> http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/sabre-dac-uae23
> There is also asynchronous version of it, with better receiver and Asio driver.
> http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/U2-DAC




I've decided to go the way of the hd800 (v the he560) due to its clarity and soundstage. 

Regarding amps and dacs my thoughts are revolving around (weighing up cost will also affect this):

Polaris project ( Jeremy's customer service in answering all my questions has been fantastic)
Audio gd - like the nfb 15, or compass 2, or fun.....
Bottlehead crack
O2 or hp a4(to a lesser extent and because I can get a chance to demo them)

And for the dac-less above I was thinking the odac. I've jumped on the bandwagon of the history/purpose/features of this product and its silence


Do the hifimediy dacs you mention work well with, say the Polaris, due to the 3.5 mm output?
Or for the dac is the idea of the silent dac at twice the price worth considering?

I'm getting the ideas here that the two better amps that will do well for the hd800 from these, at these prices, are the bottlehead crack and the Polaris project. Does that sum it up well?

And should I be thinking much about the fact that the casing is a little open on the Polaris re dust, and a little about my inquisitive 4 year old?

I'm liking my options in that I feel they will all offer good value

Your views and experiences are welcome. 

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

If you're getting an hd800 do yourself a favor and do some research on higher end DACs. I think the hd800 and he560 is deserving of a better quality DAC than an Odac or hifimediy..

If you can only do budget for the mean time then by all means save up but don't let a cheap dac be the end of it for those headphones. 

thecrow


----------



## thecrow

soundsgoodtome said:


> If you're getting an hd800 do yourself a favor and do some research on higher end DACs. I think the hd800 and he560 is deserving of a better quality DAC than an Odac or hifimediy..
> 
> If you can only do budget for the mean time then by all means save up but don't let a cheap dac be the end of it for those headphones.
> 
> thecrow




Hi

I'm well aware that the hd800 will grow as everything else around it does. 

As I have so far blown my budget through the roof, had no intention to look at the hd800 or those price points, but had some huge wow moments when I heard these two headphones amongst others I tried, $$$$ are now non existent for too much further expenditure. 

I auditioned these and loved them using my fiio x5 and cayin c5 portable amp so I'm happy to get a good value, inexpensive desktop dac and amp and use those for a while before moving up again. 

Hence i'm thinking the odac will work as a solid black dac and the Polaris would serve well with a bit of character/a little bit of tweaking. 


And I'll keep an eye out for second hand amps and dacs like the v200 and others that have positive comments around these parts


----------



## Jakkal

thecrow said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm well aware that the hd800 will grow as everything else around it does.
> 
> ...




The Hifimediy dac works well with Polaris, you just need 3.5mm to RCA cable.
I see you have X5, why not using his dac instead of buying a new one and in the future look for something better?


----------



## thecrow

jakkal said:


> The Hifimediy dac works well with Polaris, you just need 3.5mm to RCA cable.
> I see you have X5, why not using his dac instead of buying a new one and in the future look for something better?




Yeah. I thought about the fiio x5 dac but thought there might be a nice step of improvement with the odac. Something I can use for a year or two or so if I'm happy with that whilst sussing out amps. I do get a chance to trial the odac so I shall v the fiio dac

If listening to the hd800 would there be an improvement of odac v hifimediy? Again a nice step up? Not huge but nice.


----------



## Jakkal

thecrow said:


> Yeah. I thought about the fiio x5 dac but thought there might be a nice step of improvement with the odac. Something I can use for a year or two or so if I'm happy with that whilst sussing out amps. I do get a chance to trial the odac so I shall v the fiio dac
> 
> If listening to the hd800 would there be an improvement of odac v hifimediy? Again a nice step up? Not huge but nice.




I cann't answer your question, but if I were you, I would stick with the X5 dac until have funds for something better. As far as I know X5 has a good neutral dac.
Get the Polaris and try it with the X5 dac first, then if you don't like it look for something else.


----------



## thecrow

jakkal said:


> I cann't answer your question, but if I were you, I would stick with the X5 dac until have funds for something better. As far as I know X5 has a good neutral dac.
> Get the Polaris and try it with the X5 dac first, then if you don't like it look for something else.




Good thinking 99!!!!

I had kinda forgotten about that idea. 

So I guess I just get a 3.5mm to 2RCA connections cable to run into the Polaris and a 3.5 to 3.5 to connect my iMac (line out) I believe to the x5. 

Now let me ask.....in upgrading my sound from there are my better off and getting a much better dac only or split my budget between getting a good dac and a better amp than the Polaris (on paper). I guess I'm saying, do you think if I had the odac and the Polaris and I wanted to go up a step and could on just one, do you have any recommendations on whether it would be the dac or the Polaris?

Because now I'm thinking should I just use the x5 as the dac and get an even better amp for a couple of hundred more? 

Of course I have not heard the Polaris yet. 


Thanks for reminding me of the idea of the fiio dac

By the way if I'm using the dac would it matter if I was playing aiff files from the imac to the x5 (not using the iMacs dac) to the amp or the same aiff files from the x5 to the amp. I'm thinking it would be the same, right ?

Cheers
Peter t


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Thought I'd share the experience but I've recently moved things around and relocated my Polaris. After several weeks of the Polaris sitting idle from being too busy to have a good session, I've decided to mod my HE560 to get me motivated to have a good listening in. Results were great with even more clarity and a bit more detail ("he560 enhancement mod" in case you want to search what I did). However, now the Polaris went from being a great pairing to sometimes sibilant and offensive in the treble. I thought it was just because of the mods and now the amp + dac is being heard better, so naturally I blame the mastering as it doesn't show in some top notch sq albums. 

Then I remembered that the Polaris was plugged directly to the wall outlet. Now depending on many factors, including the quality of wiring in your home or your neighborhood in general being supplied by the electric company, power coming in could be dirty. Well as an experiment i run an extra long power cable to my entertainment center's power conditioner to the Polaris next to the couch. Lo and behold, the sound of the Polaris with the modded HE560 sounds very pleasing once again. Tried all the tracks that were causing sibilant spikes and rough treble before the conditioner and they are all back in line sounding beautifully again. 

I'm a true believe in power conditioning and not just your standard surge protector. Try it if you haven't on your sound rig, specially if you're ever finding a warm amp like the Polaris to be too bright (which before this incident i didn't think possible). I prefer Furman for their conditioners but there are other great brands out there that provide anywhere from basic to top value to outright summit -fi type rigs. Even the $100-$150 stuff works great so don't think you have to spend loads to get a proper clean power to your rig.


----------



## Jakkal

thecrow said:


> Good thinking 99!!!!
> 
> I had kinda forgotten about that idea.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't use 3.5 mm stereo cable between your Mac and the X2, because that is double amping. Plug your X5 with usb cable to the Mac and then from the X5 line out 3.5 mm to RCA to the Polaris. This way you will utilize the dac in the X5. But let not derail this tread further.


----------



## thecrow

I thought about the usb after I posted. 

I thought the 3.5 mm jack would be a direct line out from the imac. No amp no 
But yeah the usb sounds good

Thanks for your input


----------



## OnlyBadMusic

What would be a solid DAC upgrade from the Modi? (That I am pairing with my Polaris)


----------



## Solrighal

onlybadmusic said:


> What would be a solid DAC upgrade from the Modi? (That I am pairing with my Polaris)


 
  
 Good question! I'm currently looking at possible upgrades from my ODAC (paired with an Ember at the moment) but there are precious few obvious paths.


----------



## dpump

onlybadmusic said:


> What would be a solid DAC upgrade from the Modi? (That I am pairing with my Polaris)


 

 Modi 2 Uber should be a nice upgrade. I heard from someone I trust who has a lot of experience in designing and building DACs and who has discussed the Modi 2 Uber with Jason Stoddard that it has sound quality close to the Bifrost Uber.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

onlybadmusic said:


> What would be a solid DAC upgrade from the Modi? (That I am pairing with my Polaris)


 
 Going to the $200 region would naturally get you to the LH Labs Geek Out 450 which can drive sensitive headphones as well as provide a good clear and revealing sound. It's got an ESS Sabre DAC chip which should pair great with the Polaris.

 I don't think (could be wrong) that the Modi-2 warrants a move up to it from a Modi-1. That "closer to Bifrost" mambo jambo was used on the Modi 1 and I don't think the Modi 1 is even close to the Bifrost, at least not to revealing headphones. If you're on budget phones or bassheads or something not as transparent and well colored then a Modi 1 should suffice. If I were you I'd wait and save even more and get something like a Audio-GD NFB-11.32 or Yulong D100 MK2 or even a D200 if you want to play with DSD files.


----------



## OnlyBadMusic

soundsgoodtome said:


> Going to the $200 region would naturally get you to the LH Labs Geek Out 450 which can drive sensitive headphones as well as provide a good clear and revealing sound. It's got an ESS Sabre DAC chip which should pair great with the Polaris.
> 
> 
> I don't think (could be wrong) that the Modi-2 warrants a move up to it from a Modi-1. That "closer to Bifrost" mambo jambo was used on the Modi 1 and I don't think the Modi 1 is even close to the Bifrost, at least not to revealing headphones. If you're on budget phones or bassheads or something not as transparent and well colored then a Modi 1 should suffice. If I were you I'd wait and save even more and get something like a Audio-GD NFB-11.32 or Yulong D100 MK2 or even a D200 if you want to play with DSD files.




I have the HE-560 so they're pretty transparent. I'm not interested in DSD. I'll check those out thanks.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

Just bought soundsgoodtome's Project Polaris in the classifieds, very excited to see how they pair up with my ZMF Blackwoods!
  
 Also just ordered Modi 2 and Wyrd... Hoping for good synergy!
  
 Will post my thoughts once everything arrives


----------



## jexby

riddleywalker said:


> Just bought soundsgoodtome's Project Polaris in the classifieds, very excited to see how they pair up with my ZMF Blackwoods!
> 
> Also just ordered Modi 2 and Wyrd... Hoping for good synergy!
> 
> Will post my thoughts once everything arrives


 
  
 don't suspect you will be disappointed with Polaris-  so customizable and excellent sounding.
  
 interested in Modi2 Uber+Wyrd myself, is yours Uber?
  
 Modi2 Uber + Wyrd shoot out vs. BiFrost + Wyrd would be one interesting comparison. 
 haven't seen a direct analysis yet.


----------



## ericr

soundsgoodtome said:


> ...
> I don't think (could be wrong) that the Modi-2 warrants a move up to it from a Modi-1. That "closer to Bifrost" mambo jambo was used on the Modi 1 and I don't think the Modi 1 is even close to the Bifrost, at least not to revealing headphones. If you're on budget phones or bassheads or something not as transparent and well colored then a Modi 1 should suffice.
> ...




IIRC, the Modi 2 Uber comes with a linear power AC adapter. Not being dependent on the USB bus for power seems like it would be worth the additional $50 or so. It also has "upgraded analog components" over the Modi and base Modi 2 - though I'm not sure what that's worth.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

Just got this amp in and I'm very happy with how it's sounding so far!  I am hearing a mild scratching sound when the amp is set to Low-R, not sure why that is, but I set it to Mid-R and it went away.  (EDIT:  Issue resolved, pretty sure it was EMI).  Using with my ZMF Blackwoods (t50rp mod).  Still tweaking around with the settings to try to find the perfect sound, currently enjoying Low-R, Med Gain, High BW, w/out Attenuation.


----------



## nicdub

For those of you using the Polaris with the HD650's, what are your preferred settings? So far, I have found the Polaris to be a bit underwhelming compared to the ALO Pan Am.


----------



## lalala6

Would like to see a comparison between Polaris and Magni 2 Uber. Anyone has both?


----------



## iancraig10

nicdub said:


> For those of you using the Polaris with the HD650's, what are your preferred settings? So far, I have found the Polaris to be a bit underwhelming compared to the ALO Pan Am.




High or low input gain, depending on where you like the volume control.

Wide bandwidth.

Low output impedance.

It's one of my favourite combos.


----------



## bavinck

Does anyone use a reduced bandwidth and/or higher output impedance setting for any of their headphones?


----------



## bavinck

Can someone please explain to me what the attenuation module does?


----------



## nicdub

iancraig10 said:


> High or low input gain, depending on where you like the volume control.
> 
> Wide bandwidth.
> 
> ...




With or without attenuation? Also, just curious as to what DAC you are using. Certainly appreciate your responses. Thanks!


----------



## iancraig10

Recently, I've been using a Fiio x1 and an X3, but also a Naim CD player. (CD5si) I've not been using any input attenuation.

I have used the bandwidth option with K550 on harsh recordings. (I went to the mid setting rather than the whole hog!!)

One thing that is helpful for finer volume adjustment is to change the knob for a larger one. I changed mine to a gold plated (heavy) one so that there is a bit of weight there and being larger, it is a bit easier to manage very small amounts of adjustment.


----------



## thecrow

For those in Australia and interested i'm selling my newly acquired Polaris amp. 

See the classifieds

Cheers
Peter t


----------



## Asr

Garage1217 now has aluminum chassis options!!! Limited time only through 2/20!
  
 http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm


----------



## BRMSlash

So I've been tweaking my Polaris to tame the harsh highs I'm getting with my HD598's when connected to my main PC.  I've started off tuning the attenuation module.  The stock 10k resistors cleared up the harshness, but also killed the ambience and spaciousness experienced without the attenuation module.  I tried out 4k7, 3k3, 2k2, 1k8, 1k5, 1k2 and 1k.  The sweet spot seems to be around 1k2 for me.  Now my music really sings and I can appreciate the Polaris' tonal qualities more.  For reference my settings are now With Attenuation, High Bandwidth, Low Gain and Low Impedance.


----------



## thecrow

brmslash said:


> So I've been tweaking my Polaris to tame the harsh highs I'm getting with my HD598's when connected to my main PC.  I've started off tuning the attenuation module.  The stock 10k resistors cleared up the harshness, but also killed the ambience and spaciousness experienced without the attenuation module.  I tried out 4k7, 3k3, 2k2, 1k8, 1k5, 1k2 and 1k.  The sweet spot seems to be around 1k2 for me.  Now my music really sings and I can appreciate the Polaris' tonal qualities more.  For reference my settings are now With Attenuation, High Bandwidth, Low Gain and Low Impedance.




Excuse my ignorance you lost me with "4k7, 3k3, 2k2, 1k8, 1k5, 1k2 and 1k"


----------



## BRMSlash

It's a way of representing resistor values. i.e. 4k7 means 4.7k ohm. I like writing it that way as the decimal point can easily get lost on printed or scanned schematics. So I tried out each of the listed resistor values in the attenuator module.

By the way, I'm also in Australia. Cheers.


----------



## thecrow

And should I be able to see this list somewhere?

I understand the different settings the amp comes with and the attenuator module's role but don't know where or how these numbers came up. 

have you replaced the module or resistance on the amp or is this just settings moved around?
Ta
Peter


----------



## BRMSlash

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  I put different resistors into the removable attenuation module.  The two resistors in the stock module were 10k ohm each. I found this to be too high, so I pulled out the module and then pulled out the two resistors from the module.  I then put two new lower valued resistors into the module and then reinserted the module.  I first tried 4.7k ohm resistors, but too many highs were removed, so I then put in a pair of 3.3k ohm resistors.  I kept trying lower values until I reached the optimal.  You quoted the list of resistors I tried in the attenuation module i.e 4.7k ohm, 3.3k ohm, 2.2k ohm, 1.8k ohm, 1.5k ohm, 1.2k ohm, 1k ohm.


----------



## thecrow

Thanks for explaining.


----------



## BRMSlash

No worries


----------



## HOWIE13

brmslash said:


> So I've been tweaking my Polaris to tame the harsh highs I'm getting with my HD598's when connected to my main PC.  I've started off tuning the attenuation module.  The stock 10k resistors cleared up the harshness, but also killed the ambience and spaciousness experienced without the attenuation module.  I tried out 4k7, 3k3, 2k2, 1k8, 1k5, 1k2 and 1k.  The sweet spot seems to be around 1k2 for me.  Now my music really sings and I can appreciate the Polaris' tonal qualities more.  For reference my settings are now With Attenuation, High Bandwidth, Low Gain and Low Impedance.


 
 That's very interesting as I didn't know the highs could be altered so much in this way. What happened when you tried to tame the highs by just changing the bandwidth settings, without any attenuation module?


----------



## BRMSlash

I've currently got the Aggressive Bandwidth option, so when I try the Mid BW setting, it takes away too much treble and air for my liking, however it still has a harsh unnatural treble, maybe sibilance? If I add that little bit of resistance with the modified attenuator module, the treble and impact seem to be more under control and more natural.

BTW I've found "Hey Stoopid" by Alice Cooper is a good test song as it has very impactful drums and symbals that highlight the issue.


----------



## HOWIE13

brmslash said:


> I've currently got the Aggressive Bandwidth option, so when I try the Mid BW setting, it takes away too much treble and air for my liking, however it still has a harsh unnatural treble, maybe sibilance? If I add that little bit of resistance with the modified attenuator module, the treble and impact seem to be more under control and more natural.
> 
> BTW I've found "Hey Stoopid" by Alice Cooper is a good test song as it has very impactful drums and symbals that highlight the issue.


 
 I'm going to try what you have done. Although I am very happy with the sound I achieve at present using the conventional bandwidth settings the idea of lowering the module resistance to below 10k never occurred to me. Could be very interesting.


----------



## BRMSlash




----------



## Solrighal




----------



## RiddleyWalker

New chassis looks very sexy, debating on having it added when I mail mine in to be modded from Mellow to Aggressive. That being said, I think what a lot of folks are jonesing for is an actual enclosure, to keep out dust and such.


----------



## Jakkal

Indeed the new aluminum chassis looks splendid, but I like to see the internals, they are so beautifully arranged. Maybe I'll order just the bottom plate to give it more weight and reduce interference.
 I'm in love with my Polaris, the sound is so smooth and euphoric, can't stop listening to it.
 I think this amp deserve more love.


----------



## Solrighal

jakkal said:


> Indeed the new aluminum chassis looks splendid, but I like to see the internals, they are so beautifully arranged. Maybe I'll order just the bottom plate to give it more weight and reduce interference.
> I'm in love with my Polaris, the sound is so smooth and euphoric, can't stop listening to it.
> I think this amp deserve more love.


 
  
 You might like the Project Ember even more...


----------



## bavinck

I just fired up my new project Solstice. Coming from a Starlight it is a noticeable improvement in sq. Richer, fuller, warmer sound that is very smooth on top. Bass is solid. Details are still present even with more of a "tube" sound overall (to my ears) . Much nicer sound than my Starlight, and I like it more than my Polaris. I have not tried the Ember, but Jeremy says the Solstice sounds more like the sunrise 3. Very nice amp. 

I am inexperienced with amps in general, have the Starlight, Polaris, o2 and Magni. So take my comments as such. YMMV, IMHO, etc


----------



## Jakkal

solrighal said:


> You might like the Project Ember even more...


 
  
 I'll be able to hear that soon ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


bavinck said:


> I just fired up my new project Solstice. Coming from a Starlight it is a noticeable improvement in sq. Richer, fuller, warmer sound that is very smooth on top. Bass is solid. Details are still present even with more of a "tube" sound overall (to my ears) . Much nicer sound than my Starlight, and I like it more than my Polaris. I have not tried the Ember, but Jeremy says the Solstice sounds more like the sunrise 3. Very nice amp.
> 
> I am inexperienced with amps in general, have the Starlight, Polaris, o2 and Magni. So take my comments as such. YMMV, IMHO, etc


 
  
 Gratz for the Solstice. Which is your favorite amp of the ones you have?


----------



## bavinck

Solstice hands down. But I just got it so I reserve the ability to change my mind


----------



## Solrighal

I've now got the Polaris & Ember sitting side-by-side warming up on my desk.


----------



## rflail

solrighal said:


> I've now got the Polaris & Ember sitting side-by-side warming up on my desk.


 
 I'm considering both for my HE-560's.  Let me know what your preference is.


----------



## Jakkal

solrighal said:


> I've now got the Polaris & Ember sitting side-by-side warming up on my desk.


----------



## Solrighal

You know something? There isn't a huge difference.
  
 My source is as per my signature. I'm using my HD 650's to compare the amps. I have other headphones but the 650's get 99% of my head time so I'm only using them for testing as anything else just confuses me. For the record though, the Ember & Polaris both do a far better job of driving my Q701's  than my O2 does.
  
 I'm coming from an O2 amp and I got the Ember several weeks ago and quickly established it was streets ahead of the O2 in every department. Therefore the O2 is now in a cupboard and nowhere near this comparison. This is purely comparing the Ember & Polaris.
  
 The Ember is not a traditional valve amp. It's a hybrid and intended to provide the best of both worlds. Likewise, the Polaris is not a traditional solid-state amp. It uses J-FET's in an attempt to create some of the harmonics traditionally associated with valve amplifiers. The Ember is fitted with the stock valve & that's all I have here. Research is telling me that the stock valve can easily be bettered but I obviously can't testify to that myself. I trust those who
  
 A wee bit about expectation bias first. I was a big fan of the O2. It was my first 'proper' headphone amp and everything about it appealed to me. The simplicity & ethos behind it's design was right up my street and of course, coming from no amp at all, it sounded wonderful. I've previously considered valves to be archaic and always believed that surely we'd moved on from them. So I was thoroughly expecting the Ember to be inferior to the O2 and to find that this was not the case was a shock to the system. Maybe it's because the Ember is a hybrid or maybe it's because it's very powerful but either way it's clearly superior to the O2.
  
 Coming to the Polaris I really wanted it to trump the Ember. I much prefer the Polaris' slimline form factor and the implicitly better reliability of the solid-state design rocks my boat. It's also cheaper by quite a margin. I'm in Scotland and so buying either amp is going to incur import tax so cost really matters to me.
  
 These amps have more in common than what separates them. Both are very powerful. There's bags of headroom. If I heard the Polaris in isolation I'd be more than happy with it. However the Ember seems to have a broader sound-stage, more depth too. The Polaris has a hint of glare at the top, particularly noticeable on high-pitched backing vocals. The Polaris has a wealth of adjustable settings including input sensitivity, bandwidth, gain & output resistance. No matter how I set it up though I'm unable to remove this glare effect.
  
 If the glare was accompanied by a punchier sound it might be just about bearable but if anything I find the Ember to be the punchier amp. Transients are actually clearer on the Ember than the Polaris is able to reproduce.
  
 The Polaris does deliver a truly silent background. The Ember is good in this respect but a valve is almost always going to introduce some noise.
  
 I do seem to prefer a sound on the warm sound of neutral. I don't use HD 650's as my main headphone by accident. I like the relaxed treble and I like the warm bass. Logic would suggest that even more of that would perhaps tip it over the top but the Ember doesn't seem to do that.
  
 The Ember seems to allow more room for the music to breathe. It seems to seep from the headphones. The Polaris sounds just slightly more forced, as though the amp is working harder. There's not as much ambience with the Polaris.
  
 I would - and will - take the Ember. It ticks all my boxes and, with a change of valve, might even get better. The Polaris is what it is. It's an awesomely powerful amp in it's own right but just lacks the smoothness of the Ember.
  
 None of the above is scientific. I haven't performed proper blind testing and I can't even say the comparison's are properly volume-matched. That's not as easy to achieve as it sounds. I'm also nearly 50 years old and do exhibit some very slight hearing loss at the top end of the spectrum. Still I prefer the HD 650 over other designs. Go figure.
  
 A quick word about Garage1217. These amps are superbly built. It's not like you could hide any flaws in the build either. The support from the manufacturers is also second to none. The designer and the builder's are both readily available for help & advice over on DIYAH.
  
 No, I don't work for them. I'm also not really the kind of person who could be described as a fan-boy.
  
 Please feel free to ask any questions you might have & I'll do my best to answer them. The Ember is now moving on to the next person on the list (Germany I believe) and I'll be left with the Polaris for a couple of weeks maybe. I will get used to the Polaris in that period and probably forget what the Ember managed to do better.
  
 I hope this is of some help for people considering both amps.


----------



## Jakkal

Thank you Zorrofox, that is great comparison. I'll hear the Ember soon and will see if I like the tube sound more as well.


----------



## bavinck

Yes, change that stock tube and watch what happens.....


----------



## Solrighal

bavinck said:


> Yes, change that stock tube and watch what happens.....


 
  
 When I eventually manage to free up the funds & order an Ember I'll also be getting a Bugle Boy which is supposed to be a good match. I'd also like to buy a 6SN7 but that requires an adapter and will have to wait a bit longer.


----------



## rflail

solrighal said:


> You know something? There isn't a huge difference.
> 
> My source is as per my signature. I'm using my HD 650's to compare the amps. I have other headphones but the 650's get 99% of my head time so I'm only using them for testing as anything else just confuses me. For the record though, the Ember & Polaris both do a far better job of driving my Q701's  than my O2 does.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Zorrofox.  I think i'm down to either the Ember or the Schiit Lyr (original not 2) for my HE-560's.  They're almost the same price (Ember ~$12 more).  The only comparisons I've found seem to indicate they are pretty much a wash or some people slightly preferring the Ember.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I got the intro video up tonight. I'll be doing a review video for each of the three amps guys. The Polaris will be the first up. I'm also thinking of matching the Polaris up in a shootout. anyone game for that or don't bother?


----------



## HOWIE13

bavinck said:


> I just fired up my new project Solstice. Coming from a Starlight it is a noticeable improvement in sq. Richer, fuller, warmer sound that is very smooth on top. Bass is solid. Details are still present even with more of a "tube" sound overall (to my ears) . Much nicer sound than my Starlight, and I like it more than my Polaris. I have not tried the Ember, but Jeremy says the Solstice sounds more like the sunrise 3. Very nice amp.
> 
> I am inexperienced with amps in general, have the Starlight, Polaris, o2 and Magni. So take my comments as such. YMMV, IMHO, etc


 
 You have a nice selection of amps. What opamp and tube were you using in the Starlight when you compared with the Solstice?


----------



## HOWIE13

Great reviews. Where is this Ember list? Can anybody join it?


----------



## bavinck

howie13 said:


> You have a nice selection of amps. What opamp and tube were you using in the Starlight when you compared with the Solstice?




Stock opamp. I have been using a Russians 6n6p and a Bugle boy 6dj8 mostly. Now I have a amperex 12au7 in my Solstice and it sounds very nice.


----------



## HOWIE13

bavinck said:


> Stock opamp. I have been using a Russians 6n6p and a Bugle boy 6dj8 mostly. Now I have a amperex 12au7 in my Solstice and it sounds very nice.


 
 Good choices. I found rolling opamps in the Starlight very revealing. At present I am enjoying the clarity, agility and sweetness of an opa 2227 combined with a 12AT7 Bugle Boy. I suspect, however, you will prefer a warmer sound from what you say.
 I had thought the Solstice was meant to be more like the Ember, with less configuration options. Now it appears to be akin to the Sunrise 3 in sound.
 I was considering buying the Solstice, as an alternative to the Ember, but will now wait until the dust settles.


----------



## bavinck

It does have a sound more similar to the Sunrise 3, at least that is what Jeremy was telling me. Works for me as I like the warmer sound.


----------



## HOWIE13

bavinck said:


> It does have a sound more similar to the Sunrise 3, at least that is what Jeremy was telling me. Works for me as I like the warmer sound.


 
 That's all that matters. Enjoy!


----------



## Insatiable One

Can somebody compare the Project Polaris to the Schiit Magni 2 or Schiit Magni 2 Uber?
 Seems like a good comparison.
 I don't know if the Project Polaris is worth the extra $$$ now that the Magni 2 Uber out.
 I use an HE-500 and a T50RP mod.


----------



## Jakkal

insatiable one said:


> Can somebody compare the Project Polaris to the Schiit Magni 2 or Schiit Magni 2 Uber?
> Seems like a good comparison.
> I don't know if the Project Polaris is worth the extra $$$ now that the Magni 2 Uber out.
> I use an HE-500 and a T50RP mod.


 
 I have not heard the Magni 2, but if you want your amp to be more flexible and future proof pick the Polaris. 
 Six gain settings, three output impedance settings, three bandwidth settings, pre-amp out, plus you can select aluminum or plastic chassis and the color of the led! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't know other amp packed with so many features.
 And when you add to that the amazing sound and look, I think it is an obvious choice if the budget allows it.


----------



## iancraig10

When the filters become available, you will find the Polaris will way outshine other amps at a similar pricing level. I trialled a Senn hd650 filter and it takes the Senn bass to a completely new level.


----------



## Key it Up

I'm also very interested in hearing impressions from someone who has used both the Project Polaris and Schiit Magni (or Uber).  I will be using an HE-400i.


----------



## Kevin.T

iancraig10 said:


> When the filters become available, you will find the Polaris will way outshine other amps at a similar pricing level. I trialled a Senn hd650 filter and it takes the Senn bass to a completely new level.


 
  
 Hi Ian,
  
 I'm confused: what are these filters you are speaking of?


----------



## No_One411

kevin.t said:


> Hi Ian,
> 
> I'm confused: what are these filters you are speaking of?


 
 They're Franz's Kameleon filters.


----------



## thecrow

Hi

I too am lost about filters. 

Can you shed some light for a novice like me, who has the polaris amp?

Curious to see what might be available/doable to the amp

Thanks
Peter


----------



## HOWIE13

Hi Iain
 Filters?


----------



## JacobLee89

If we're talking about the Frans, then we must be talking about the Kameleon amp right? And the filters in questions are the ones that Frans makes (or sells/etc etc) for the various headphones available.
  
 In other words: this amp. I'm guessing that the two small green boards are the filters.
  

  
  
  
 What I'd like to know is how filters which are designed to fit the Kameleon, can fit into a Polaris amp.


----------



## Solrighal

jacoblee89 said:


> If we're talking about the Frans, then we must be talking about the Kameleon amp right? And the filters in questions are the ones that Frans makes (or sells/etc etc) for the various headphones available.
> 
> In other words: this amp. I'm guessing that the two small green boards are the filters.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the ultimate goal is to make a desktop filter which is placed in-line between the source & the amp.


----------



## JacobLee89

solrighal said:


> I think the ultimate goal is to make a desktop filter which is placed in-line between the source & the amp.


 
  
 Maybe this can be done like an interconnect, only with the filter in a small box -with a removable top- in the middle.


----------



## Solrighal

jacoblee89 said:


> Maybe this can be done like an interconnect, only with the filter in a small box -with a removable top- in the middle.




I guess that sounds feasible but I'm not the one who would know for sure.


----------



## ericr

insatiable one said:


> Can somebody compare the Project Polaris to the Schiit Magni 2 or Schiit Magni 2 Uber?
> Seems like a good comparison.
> I don't know if the Project Polaris is worth the extra $$$ now that the Magni 2 Uber out.
> I use an HE-500 and a T50RP mod.




Haven't heard the Magni 2 / Uber either. Schiit makes good stuff and these look like a good value. FWIW, I preferred the Ember and Polaris over my Asgard 2 in a side by side comparison. 

As to the flexibility mentioned above, both the Garage amps have adjustable output impedance that helps bring out the best in a wide variety of headphones. The low setting is great for IEMs - especially those with balanced armatures. The mid setting is best with my HE-560, and the high setting is important for high-end full-size cans with higher impedance from Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, etc. The new Magni amps have some impressive power ratings into low impedance loads, but at loads of 50 Ohms and above (i.e., harder to drive full-size phones) the and Polaris (& Ember) put out a good amount more power.


----------



## thecrow

insatiable one said:


> Can somebody compare the Project Polaris to the Schiit Magni 2 or Schiit Magni 2 Uber?
> Seems like a good comparison.
> I don't know if the Project Polaris is worth the extra $$$ now that the Magni 2 Uber out.
> I use an HE-500 and a T50RP mod.




Hi. Do you still have your cayin c5 that your profile suggests?
For me, for my ears, for what I look for, for my hd800s......the cayin serves me so much better than my polaris. 

Now I have not used many dacs at all with it so my exoerience is limited and I am about to receive an odac and O2 to play with and mix n match but the c5 is quite ahead at this point. I actually think its exceptionsl value. 

I think the choice of magni v Polaris could well depend on headphone and I also strongly recommend you should try to hear the Polaris first. You were quite picky, as I remember it (I could be wrong), when you first bought your he500s so see if you can demo your amp first. 

Just my two bobs worth


----------



## thecrow

my project polaris back on sale in Australia - see classifieds or pm me
  
 cheers
 peter


----------



## Insatiable One

rflail said:


> Thanks Zorrofox.  I think i'm down to either the Ember or the Schiit Lyr (original not 2) for my HE-560's.  They're almost the same price (Ember ~$12 more).  The only comparisons I've found seem to indicate they are pretty much a wash or some people slightly preferring the Ember.


 
 Why not the Lyr 2?


----------



## iancraig10

jacoblee89 said:


> Maybe this can be done like an interconnect, only with the filter in a small box -with a removable top- in the middle.




Sorry. I missed the replies concerning the filters.

Frans designed a Kameleon amp which I tried and tested with different filters designed for different headphones.

Basically, it's not a flat amp unless you put a 'flat' filter in. Frans has measured headphone responses and made a corresponding filter that gives the opposite shape so that you end up with a pretty flat response. The one that worked the best for me was the HD650 filter. In fact it was stunning. Sub bass appeared and the mid hump had been reduced, making the headphone into something really special.

The tiny filter boards will be made to fit before the Garage amps (Frans designed those as well) so that this same effect can be heard via the Garage series.

It takes the hd650 to another level.

The filters aren't available yet and Frans has a few of my headphones so that he can play around until he gets filters for them. That means for the more commonly used headphones, there will be an armoury of filters in order to help sort out fr issues that many seem to have.

He has quite a few filters designed already and they all really do improve the headphone sound a lot. The reason is that they target specific frequencies that he's measured on his kit that he uses at home to test headphones.

Hopefully, Jeremy will get finished units going for the amps and then people can sample a much more civilised sound from a variety of headphones along with that lovely tube flavour of the amps themselves.

I really hope it goes ahead. I was really knocked out by the Senn HD650 filter in particular. In fact, it pushed me to get a Fostex th900 because I missed the sub bass so much when it went back to Frans.

Come over to DIY Audio Heaven and nag them!!!


----------



## JacobLee89

iancraig10 said:


> Sorry. I missed the replies concerning the filters.
> 
> Frans designed a Kameleon amp which I tried and tested with different filters designed for different headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll be fine even if they are just PCB boards with a BOM for me to tinker around with .
  
 And in ideal circumstances, I would like a HD650 filter, and a HD25 filter ! Maybe even one for the Mad Dogs....


----------



## iancraig10

The HD650 filter is the best imo. Reason being that the Senn doesn't need a lot of alteration in order to get it both extended into sub bass and flatter. It's so good, that I stopped listening to it once the filter went back!!


----------



## RiddleyWalker

That Hd650 filter sounds very interesting. Any idea when they will be available?


----------



## richard51

Is these filters will be  adaptable for the Ember and the hifiman he 400 headphones?


----------



## iancraig10

riddleywalker said:


> That Hd650 filter sounds very interesting. Any idea when they will be available?




Unfortunately, no date for the release of them yet. There is information on making them on the DIY Audio Heaven site. (Not the forum) the Senn in particular really improves a lot. It gives better sub bass, takes down the mid bass hump, so that with the bass properly lined up, the top becomes a little more obvious. It's kind of like an hd600 with real low bass.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Edit: NVM. I am in the wrong thread. My apologies.


----------



## JacobLee89

iancraig10 said:


> Unfortunately, no date for the release of them yet. There is information on making them on the DIY Audio Heaven site. (Not the forum) the Senn in particular really improves a lot. It gives better sub bass, takes down the mid bass hump, so that with the bass properly lined up, the top becomes a little more obvious. It's kind of like an hd600 with real low bass.


 
  
 The passive filter schematics seem to be not available. I could make an active one, but I'm not interested on using yet another power outlet.


----------



## mandrake50

Just wondering, has anyone else got their aluminum chassis plates yet? I got mine today. They look very nice. I am looking  forward to installing them this evening. I have a question for the group. Jeremy included a resistor in the box... I haven't looked at the value. I recall reading somewhere that this should be attached to one of the plates and, I think to a ground on the board. It was to provide added shielding for RFI, I think. I can't seem to find the document where I read this. Does anyone else have it, or possibly know the suggested method and location for installing this resistor.
  
 THX


----------



## J&J

Rec'd my Al covers yesterday for Solstice and they are beautiful but I have no idea why resistor included so if you find out post here or im me
 Thanks John


----------



## J&J

Rec'd email from Jeremy G1217 explaining  the resistor was included with metal covers to ground them to chassis to prevent EMI if that is a problem He includes detailed info how to solder  If you do not rec it im me and I will forward instructions


----------



## RiddleyWalker

Was playing around with the different settings tonight, and it seems that  on my headphones, when I switch from Low-R to Mid-R, the highs seem to be a little less prevalent, as well as things seem to lose a bit of attack and impact.  Have you guys noticed the same?  Currently running Mid-R, Mid Gain, High BW, W/O-A


----------



## Solrighal

riddleywalker said:


> Was playing around with the different settings tonight, and it seems that  on my headphones, when I switch from Low-R to Mid-R, the highs seem to be a little less prevalent, as well as things seem to lose a bit of attack and impact.  Have you guys noticed the same?  Currently running Mid-R, Mid Gain, High BW, W/O-A


 
  
 That's the way it should work. That's what happens to my HD 650's anyway.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Sorry guys, wrong thread


----------



## GreenMachine

Hey you all, I have a quick question regarding my Polaris. I've noticed that sometimes when I turn the volume knob I get some slight static in my left can. When my headphones (HE400i) are plugged into my sound system receiver and I quickly adjust the volume, I don't notice any static at all and the same goes for when they are plugged directly into my phone or PC. Is this anything to worry about? I'm pretty OCD about this kind of issue and it gets me all anxious. There is no static at all when the knob is not being moved.


----------



## iancraig10

If you go here, the designer can let you know what's going on. Solderdude is the guy that you want.

http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris?page=11


----------



## GreenMachine

Thanks for the link! I was actually able to talk with Jeremy and he said it sounds like contamination in the grease of the volpot on that channel or a spec of dust made it into the grease. So I did the usual rotation of the pot, the sound is still there when I rotate it. Jeremy says that it shouldn't be harming anything but if I want too I can send in the amp so he can replace the volpot. Awesome guy!


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, Jeremy is also there with Frans. He is a really nice fella. I like him a lot. He's a real enthusiast and is keen to see everyone happy with his amps.

I'm Rabbit on that site.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

greenmachine said:


> Hey you all, I have a quick question regarding my Polaris. I've noticed that sometimes when I turn the volume knob I get some slight static in my left can. When my headphones (HE400i) are plugged into my sound system receiver and I quickly adjust the volume, I don't notice any static at all and the same goes for when they are plugged directly into my phone or PC. Is this anything to worry about? I'm pretty OCD about this kind of issue and it gets me all anxious. There is no static at all when the knob is not being moved.


 
 Same thing happens with mine, though it's very quiet.  From what I've read, it means the volume pot needs to be cleaned.


----------



## GreenMachine

Jeremy is a great guy. It's awesome that all he wants is to keep customers happy with the amps. Best customer service I've dealt with!
  
  
@RiddleyWalker Mine actually could get decently loud and quite obvious over the music and the more times I tried the do the rotation of the pot to clean it the more prevalent it became. I'm sending the amp in next week so Jeremy can test it out. I might have just ended up with a bad volpot. The sound was there at times when I first got the amp months ago but now it's coming on loud and often.
  
 Also, rather than making a new post, I'll edit this one and post some pics. The Polaris is almost too beautiful.


----------



## RedBull

These filters really intrigue me. We need hd800 filters please, it's really hard to tame hd800 spikes on bad recordings while with good recordings it sounds stunning with Ember. Sorry, i happened to only have Ember. Just to share my impressions.

I personally don't need hd650 filters (other might need), as i find Ember is perfect for hd650. That deep bass doesn't make me thinking to grab my lcd 2.1.


Btw, i don't get any resistors with my aluminum chasis. Is this only for Polaris?


----------



## iancraig10

You'd change your mind about the HD650 filter if you heard it. Frans sent me a Kameleon with a box of filters for different headphones. Imo, the hd650 was the best since the Senns seem to react more 'readily'. Once the mid bass hump is trimmed and you hear proper sub-bass on them, it's difficult to listen without a filter.

Frans is making a one off amp for me which is mains driven, just for the HD650. He's called it a SeNNator.

Reaon being that I said on our forum that I no longer wanted to use the Senn without filter. It caused me to buy a TH900 because I missed sub-bass so much!!

Soon though, I'll be using the Senn with filter again, which I actually preferred.

He is/has designed a module to fit before the Garage amps that work in the same way with changeable filters. (They tiny)


----------



## RedBull

Interesting. Hope the final product can be released soon.

I don't see any place it can be fit into Ember tho. Hope there's a way.

If you talk to Frans again, please mention about filters for hd800. Need some help on the treble there 
I found my fav tube for hd800 now, i find 12au7 has the most gentle lower treble for 800 while still maintain its sparly and airyness. Very nice and spacey.


----------



## Jakkal

redbull said:


> Interesting. Hope the final product can be released soon.
> 
> I don't see any place it can be fit into Ember tho. Hope there's a way.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will not fit the Ember, will be separate module that will go between the source and the Garage1217 amps. As far as I know the design for the filter module is ready.
 You can talk with Frans yourself if you register at diyah boards.


----------



## iancraig10

redbull said:


> Interesting. Hope the final product can be released soon.
> 
> I don't see any place it can be fit into Ember tho. Hope there's a way.
> 
> ...




Redbull, if you come onto our forum, he's there every day. Been chatting with him this morning since he's made a SeNNator for me. Jeremy is also a member. Myself, Frans and Javier are the moderators.

I don't think Frans did an HD800 filter although he recognises that the hd800 might be improved by one. What he does is measure the frequency response of headphones and creates a circuit that targets peaks and creates an opposite frequency response curve in order to get them as close to flat as possible. The less to alter, the better the results. First of all, he sometimes tries to fix peaks with physical alterations. He's done absolute marvels for a cheap Philips Cityscape. They are fantastic after just physical alterations.

In order to get the filter right, he needs to measure the headphone response and I don't think he's measured an HD800 yet.

My HD650 is sublime with filter. The depth of the bass is truly outstanding and he's also shaved off the mid bass hump. Not touched the treble, but the result is outstanding. It becomes clearer in the top because the mid bass hump has gone and the thwack that you can get in the bass is awesome.

It caused me to completely shift my expectations of headphones after 45 years of listening on headphones. Not much gets close. It resulted in me buying a th900 actually, but I still return to the Senns as my reference.

Try this .... Small forum but really nice guys and much more 'intimate' atmosphere tbh. You're really welcome. Your avatar is a bit scary though!!! 

http://diyah.boards.net


----------



## RedBull

Thanks Ian, I will join the forum. But i am not a diy-er tho. Still relevant?

Hahaha. I love watching movies and Joker, particularly in The Dark Knight, plays very nicely. He 'sucked' me into the movie. It sad that he commited suicide.
Don't worry i wont bite, hahaha.


----------



## iancraig10

No, it's not really so much diy as diy help really. Frans is an absolutely top notch guy. Extremely informative and helpful on the headphone modding side and of course, his designing of the Garage amps. He's totally changed my outlook on headphone listening. (Possibly his own too!!)

What he's achieved with the hd650 is just outstanding and would hold you back from buying an ultra expensive high end headphone tbh.

Not only that, but he has modded some Philips cheapies to a standard you just wouldn't believe. He's selling two that he's done as well.

My listening has really gone up a long way since knowing Frans.

There's also Javier who does computer based music and I do the music section because I'm a musician.

It's a small forum but actually, I quite like that about it as well.

I'm known as the Rabbit on there. (Cos I talk a lot)


----------



## RedBull

Sounds fun.

We need at least one Rabbit in each forum to warm up the room


----------



## GreenMachine

Well Jeremy is really a kick-a** guy! He fixed my amp and gave it a bit of an upgrade! Here is what he sent me:
  
 Changed out the MKT caps to Wimas which is what we use currently (very quiet caps - excellent DC blockers
 Changed out the volpot / no more scratch or issues of course
 Cleaned / detailed / Tested
  
 All I can say is I'm extremely stoked to get it home and try it out!


----------



## RedBull

+1 for Jeremy. He's the man!


----------



## mandrake50

+2
 He has never been less than great to deal with for me!


----------



## Solrighal

+3 He's one of the good guys.


----------



## Walderstorn

Is there anyway to get these in Europe without getting customs-rapped ?


----------



## Solrighal

walderstorn said:


> Is there anyway to get these in Europe without getting customs-rapped ?


 
  
 Sadly, no.


----------



## Jakkal

walderstorn said:


> Is there anyway to get these in Europe without getting customs-rapped ?


 
 You can send email to Jeremy and ask.
  
  
 I'm listening to my Polaris with HD 650, it is such a wonderful match.


----------



## threegr

walderstorn said:


> Is there anyway to get these in Europe without getting customs-rapped ?


 
  
 I might be selling mine soon. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Walderstorn

jakkal said:


> You can send email to Jeremy and ask.
> 
> 
> I'm listening to my Polaris with HD 650, it is such a wonderful match.


 
  
 I dont see want can they do, unless they send me a different invoice that avoids customs charges, ill have a talk with them, thanks!


----------



## threegr

walderstorn said:


> I dont see want can they do, unless they send me a different invoice that avoids customs charges, ill have a talk with them, thanks!


 
  
 Customs in my country don't even trust those invoices, you have to provide the proof of the cost (e.g. from the webshop) and the proof of your payment (e.g. Paypal receipt).


----------



## Walderstorn

threegr said:


> Customs in my country don't even trust those invoices, you have to provide the proof of the cost (e.g. from the webshop) and the proof of your payment (e.g. Paypal receipt).


 
  
 Hmm i see, that would be in fact very bad, but i could just state they were used amps i guess, that way it couldnt be full price (could do 2 sepparate paypal payments), but doubt that would work 100%, they are such a pain in europe to deal with.


----------



## threegr

walderstorn said:


> Hmm i see, that would be in fact very bad, but i could just state they were used amps i guess, that way it couldnt be full price (could do 2 sepparate paypal payments), but doubt that would work 100%, they are such a pain in europe to deal with.


 
  
 Yeah, if you buy second hand, you have to provide the entry from the classifieds or forums or whatever. Major PITA! You can arrange separate payments with some manufacturers/sellers, usually the smaller ones.


----------



## Walderstorn

I'll see what they tell me, im not in a hurry, i mean i am but since i cant afford it right now im taking my time with this matter until mid-late may, just wanted to get properly informed, thanks


----------



## Solrighal

walderstorn said:


> I dont see want can they do, unless they send me a different invoice that avoids customs charges, ill have a talk with them, thanks!




I'm in the UK and import tax cost me £27 for my Ember. It's annoying but it still keeps these amps competitive price-wise, imo.


----------



## Walderstorn

solrighal said:


> I'm in the UK and import tax cost me £27 for my Ember. It's annoying but it still keeps these amps competitive price-wise, imo.


 
  
 Here is 23% tax + 10 to 30€ for customs fees, so it becomes to expensive, since it can become 30% more of the buying price.


----------



## Drrizzt

I got lucky, my beloved postman totally forgot to asked me for the tax and customs fees 8)


----------



## Walderstorn

Here like in most countries that isnt charged by the postman oO


----------



## RedBull

In my country, i wasn't taxed by my courier for my ember, not because they forgot but because it's still below minimum taxable amount.


----------



## roamling

solrighal said:


> +3 He's one of the good guys.


 

 +4, absolutely.


----------



## jbarrentine

Alright. What kind of upgrade can I expect from the Vali for my $300? (with aluminum top)
 I currently use Beyer T90. 
  
 5%? 10%? 50%?  What's a realistic number anyone who has had both can place on the performance difference. If it's absolutely minimal then I don't see much use in making the move.


----------



## Aplle

iancraig10 said:


> My HD650 is sublime with filter. The depth of the bass is truly outstanding and he's also shaved off the mid bass hump. Not touched the treble, but the result is outstanding. It becomes clearer in the top because the mid bass hump has gone and the thwack that you can get in the bass is awesome.


 
 That sounds amazing, I'm looking forward to trying it with my Polaris. I wonder when these filters will be available through Garage1217.


----------



## iancraig10

I'm not sure. I know that Frans has designed them so it's a question of when Jeremy can get them out.

The only thing that you need to be careful with is the volume. Boosting the sub bass and turning up high could introduce distotion since it is so low in frequency.


----------



## ericr

Not at all sure about this, but I was under the impression you could also buy the Garage amps from Frans so it would be a within the EU purchase.


----------



## JacobLee89

ericr said:


> Not at all sure about this, but I was under the impression you could also buy the Garage amps from Frans so it would be a within the EU purchase.


 
  
 Oh. Frans is just an electrical wizard that came up with the Kameleon portable amp design: a portable amp with switchable headphone filters, and is potentially pushing forward a "less explored" section of headphone audio.
  
 That said, Frans designs (if we're talking about the Polaris) are only on the filters and he does them soley on his spare time. I don't think we have been told when the filters for the Polaris amp will be available.
  
 Funny that.. It almost feels like Frans is the polar opposite of HeWhoMustNotBeNamed (OK I meant the O2 designer).


----------



## Solrighal

jacoblee89 said:


> Oh. Frans is just an electrical wizard that came up with the Kameleon portable amp design: a portable amp with switchable headphone filters, and is potentially pushing forward a "less explored" section of headphone audio.
> 
> That said, Frans designs (if we're talking about the Polaris) are only on the filters and he does them soley on his spare time. I don't think we have been told when the filters for the Polaris amp will be available.
> 
> Funny that.. It almost feels like Frans is the polar opposite of HeWhoMustNotBeNamed (OK I meant the O2 designer).


 
  
 I think you'll find Frans designs just about everything that emanates from Garage 1217, not just filters.


----------



## JacobLee89

solrighal said:


> I think you'll find Frans designs just about everything that emanates from Garage 1217, not just filters.


 
  
 I stand corrected! He sounded just too busy to even seep a single word of Garage 1217 in the Diyah forums. Might need to trawl the forums a bit more.


----------



## iancraig10

jacoblee89 said:


> Oh. Frans is just an electrical wizard that came up with the Kameleon portable amp design: a portable amp with switchable headphone filters, and is potentially pushing forward a "less explored" section of headphone audio.
> 
> That said, Frans designs (if we're talking about the Polaris) are only on the filters and he does them soley on his spare time. I don't think we have been told when the filters for the Polaris amp will be available.
> 
> Funny that.. It almost feels like Frans is the polar opposite of HeWhoMustNotBeNamed (OK I meant the O2 designer).




Frans has done the designing of the amps and filters but he doesn't make or sell them. Jeremy does.

Frans is mostly in agreement with what HeWhoMust Not BeNamed about electrical designs. Biggest difference is that Frans has no issue with changing the output impednce of headphone amps wheres the other guy did.

Personally, I find the O2 a little sterile although I love the low noise.


----------



## jbarrentine

How much of an improvement (and in what areas) is the Polaris better than the Vali? 
  
 Is the Vali notably better in certain ways?
  
 I have a polaris sitting in my cart right now. But it's $300, which is a lot to spend and not achieve a notable difference in quality. Help me out here.


----------



## Solrighal

jbarrentine said:


> How much of an improvement (and in what areas) is the Polaris better than the Vali?
> 
> Is the Vali notably better in certain ways?
> 
> I have a polaris sitting in my cart right now. But it's $300, which is a lot to spend and not achieve a notable difference in quality. Help me  out here.


 
  
 I've heard the Polaris over an extended period and thought it was great. It's quite warm sounding. I've never heard the Vali though so can't directly compare the two I'm afraid, sorry.


----------



## iancraig10

jbarrentine said:


> How much of an improvement (and in what areas) is the Polaris better than the Vali?
> 
> Is the Vali notably better in certain ways?
> 
> I have a polaris sitting in my cart right now. But it's $300, which is a lot to spend and not achieve a notable difference in quality. Help me out here.




The Polaris was designed to imitate the sound of tubes while being an ss amp. So it produces harmonics that resemble tubes with the reliability of solid state. It offers lots of power and configuration options that don't exist on other amps. The gain can be altered as well as the bandwidth as well as the output impedance. This gives you lots of options to 'trim' the sound that you want from the headphone.

So because it imitates the sound of a tube amp,it tends to sound warmer, but not quite as 'colourful' as the Ember which is a hybrid.

I don't think of it as being 'better' than anything else in particular, but is oneof the most configurable amps around.

The Vali is a hybrid amp isn't it? The Polaris is SS.

The Polaris puts out 2.4W into 64 ohms. That is a bit more power than the Vali, so plenty of headroom. The Vali puts out 650mW into 32 ohms compared to 1.4 from the Polaris.

The Polaris offers a lot of power and so potential for more headroom.

The Vali is perhaps prettier to look at though.


----------



## jbarrentine

> The Vali is perhaps prettier to look at though.


 
  
 The aluminum Polaris is incredible looking.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, I agree. I have the aluminium top on mine. Don't like it as much on the Ember though tbh.

I think the improvement will be in dynamic range available and the configuration might improve your headphone tonally in comparison to the Vali, so imo there is a notable difference in quality, although I'm sure that Schiit fans would disagree. :etysmile:


----------



## Solrighal

iancraig10 said:


> Don't like it as much on the Ember though tbh.


 
  
 Only because your knob isn't big enough. I have a huge knob


----------



## iancraig10

Aha ....mine has got a big GOLD knob!!! In fact, I gave it a food shine today because it's been raining.


----------



## Solrighal

iancraig10 said:


> Aha ....mine has got a big GOLD knob!!! In fact, I gave it a food shine today because it's been raining.


 
  
 Pah! Gold's too rock star for me


----------



## iancraig10

Pathetic isn't it? Two old codgers arguing about a knob...... and at our ages too!! :mad:


----------



## jbarrentine

I didn't think the Ember could take a tube that big. I don't understand the "supercharger" and all that other stuff to do with Ember though. What am I missing?  (and which tube is that?)


----------



## Solrighal

jbarrentine said:


> I didn't think the Ember could take a tube that big. I don't understand the "supercharger" and all that other stuff to do with Ember though. What am I missing?  (and which tube is that?)


 
  
 The supercharger is a circuit that's designed to allow the Ember to take high current tubes. On the Mk1 it was an add-on but on the Mark2 it's integrated.
  
 The tube you see in that picture is a 1945 GE 6SN7GT VT231 made for the Canadian Armed Forces. There's an adapter sold on the Garage 1217 website which allows these tubes to be used.
  
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm
  
 It sounds wonderful!


----------



## jbarrentine

God if I started doing tubes I would be in trouble. I would invariably spend money almost endlessly.


----------



## Solrighal

jbarrentine said:


> God if I started doing tubes I would be in trouble. I would invariably spend money almost endlessly.


 
  
 Only if you have endless money. I don't & I've got four tubes but could get by with two. As long as you take advice, do the research & buy wisely there's no reason it needs to cost a fortune.
  
 And it's fun.


----------



## iancraig10

Imo, some get a bit carried away by tubes. There was one character I saw on another site, who spent as much money on tubes as the amp. He never settled with one. Overrated activity, I think.

Differences are quite subtle and there is really no need to spend a packet on tubes to get a slightly different flavour, it would be a more dramatic difference if you changed headphones with the same mo ey you'd use for tubes. Having said that, there is bound to be someone who hears a massive difference with whatever tube ..... But they spent money on it, so they won't be exactly objective about improvements.

I think that many differences are overstated on many occasions with many people becoming curious and just rolling tube after tube for no real reason.


----------



## Solrighal

They do look nice though.


----------



## connieflyer

iancraig10 said:


> Imo, some get a bit carried away by tubes. There was one character I saw on another site, who spent as much money on tubes as the amp. He never settled with one. Overrated activity, I think.
> 
> Differences are quite subtle and there is really no need to spend a packet on tubes to get a slightly different flavour, it would be a more dramatic difference if you changed headphones with the same mo ey you'd use for tubes. Having said that, there is bound to be someone who hears a massive difference with whatever tube ..... But they spent money on it, so they won't be exactly objective about improvements.
> 
> I think that many differences are overstated on many occasions with many people becoming curious and just rolling tube after tube for no real reason.


 

 While the differences are subtle the gains are appreciable,  I have bought and sold my share of tubes for the Ember, not sorry I did, I found what I was looking for, while most of the tubes I used were okay, some were much better, now settled on the 6SN7's, and while I do on occasion switch back to the 9 pins, for a while, the 6SN7's are enough better to make the money spent worthwhile,  I feel I am getting the maximum out of this amp and I enjoy them, with the hd650 phones.  Small steps add up to larger gains overall, your milage may vary.


----------



## Solrighal

connieflyer said:


> While the differences are subtle the gains are appreciable,  I have bought and sold my share of tubes for the Ember, not sorry I did, I found what I was looking for, while most of the tubes I used were okay, some were much better, now settled on the 6SN7's, and while I do on occasion switch back to the 9 pins, for a while, the 6SN7's are enough better to make the money spent worthwhile,  I feel I am getting the maximum out of this amp and I enjoy them, with the hd650 phones.  Small steps add up to larger gains overall, your milage may vary.


 
  
 I agree. Particulrly the VT-231's (at least the one I have) are appreciably better than the 9's. IMHO.


----------



## connieflyer

I have two Vt 231's now, a Sylvania and a Ken Rad, and to my ears, (most important to me) they are the best I have heard from this amp.


----------



## Solrighal

Yeah, my one's a General Electric but it sounds fantastic. Very accurate sounding for a valve but still 'tubey', if you know what I mean.


----------



## richard51

i had just bought 7193 national union tubes...I had extensively read about 6sn7 versus 7193 family tubes... all opinions without exception go in the same direction : 7193 tubes were better than 6ns7 tubes.... Hence when i had tested the 6sn7 contra bugle boy or amperex in the 12au7 family, the 6sn7 was way better and this was very audible.... i think that the 7193 will be  way better... all people who compared the tubes have said the same ....My wife  dont talk to me  right now.... I had won a bid for 16 national union tubes 7193....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i will made a report here with my listening results... thanks to all of you for sharing this marvellous experience with the Ember ( for the price the better Amp on the market and after a year of discoveries without end i think the same now)


----------



## richard51

sorry i had think because of this discussion about tubes that i was in the Ember tube rolling thread not in the polaris thread......i apologize to you all


----------



## Solrighal

richard51 said:


> sorry i had think because of this discussion about tubes that i was in the Ember tube rolling thread not in the polaris thread......i apologize to you all


 
  
 Yeah, me too actually. Back to Polaris. I'm out.


----------



## richard51

solrighal said:


> Yeah, me too actually. Back to Polaris. I'm out.


 

 But we are the same bunch of friends and Jeremy and  Frans adept...


----------



## Solrighal

richard51 said:


> But we are the same bunch of friends and Jeremy and  Frans adept...


 
  
 Yeah Richard, that's true. However all this talk of the Ember does kinda make it sound like it's the superior product & that's not going to be the case for everyone & indeed every headphone.
  
 Some people prefer the perceived accuracy of SS designs and also don't want to be forever spending money on an eternal quest for that one extra degree of sound quality which results in the sometimes costly hobby of tube-rolling.
  
 I'm subscribed to this thread because I was torn between the two amps and have been lucky enough to hear both. I opted to go down the Ember route but I can see why someone might choose the Polaris & if they need input I can maybe help out. That's why I'm still subscribed to this thread.


----------



## richard51

solrighal said:


> Yeah Richard, that's true. However all this talk of the Ember does kinda make it sound like it's the superior product & that's not going to be the case for everyone & indeed every headphone.
> 
> Some people prefer the perceived accuracy of SS designs and also don't want to be forever spending money on an eternal quest for that one extra degree of sound quality which results in the sometimes costly hobby of tube-rolling.
> 
> I'm subscribed to this thread because I was torn between the two amps and have been lucky enough to hear both. I opted to go down the Ember route but I can see why someone might choose the Polaris & if they need input I can maybe help out. That's why I'm still subscribed to this thread.


 

 Same for me.... and if i had more money i certainly had bought the polaris also.... to economise tube amd had the flexibility....


----------



## iancraig10

I have both and personally find the Polaris slightly cleaner for the Senn HD650 but the Ember is nice with th900 because you can get a slightly softer treble edge with it. The tube harmonics warm the Fostex up a little too, I think.

One that I teally enjoyed and also wished I'd kept is the Horizon actually. Good value amp.


----------



## Aplle

iancraig10 said:


> The Polaris puts out 2.4W into 64 ohms. That is a bit more power than the Vali, so plenty of headroom. The Vali puts out 650mW into 32 ohms compared to 1.4 from the Polaris.
> 
> The Polaris offers a lot of power and so potential for more headroom.
> 
> The Vali is perhaps prettier to look at though.


 
  
 A lot of power is right. I wonder what kind of headphones you could use with the Polaris on high gain.


----------



## iancraig10

Hifiman or Audeze headphones need lots of kick and the Polaris will drive them.


----------



## HOWIE13

aplle said:


> A lot of power is right. I wonder what kind of headphones you could use with the Polaris on high gain.


 
 I use most of my over ear headphones on high power, with just a few on medium, but the more sensitive 'in ears' need the low setting. One problem of setting gain too high is you can't use the full turn of the vol pot as the sound will max out too early. I'm happy if the sound is max at about 12-1 and I don't hear any circuit noise (which is very rare with the Polaris) or distortion.
 Another option for reducing the power to the headphone is to leave the Polaris on high gain and increase the amplifier output impedance using the jumpers. This can improve the sound with higher impedance headphones but will probably not sound too good with low impedance cans. There is quite a lot of esoteric stuff on the Forums about matching amplifier output impedance to headphone impedance. I'm not sure that I fully understand or believe it all though.
  
 PS. Another thing to bear in mind is that many vol pots don't balance the channel sound correctly until they reach the 9 position. I gather it's not a fault, but the way they work. My ideal listening range is between 9 and 1.


----------



## iancraig10

Same as me Howie. I use between 9 and 1 'o clock. I try to not use low impedance headphones with it.

I also changed the volume knob for a bigger one, which gives better control over micro adjustments.


----------



## mandrake50

iancraig10 said:


> Same as me Howie. I use between 9 and 1 'o clock. I try to not use low impedance headphones with it.
> 
> I also changed the volume knob for a bigger one, which gives better control over micro pancakes.


 

 Can you let us know some specifics about that knob. I have been considering doing exactly that.


----------



## iancraig10

Expensive, but are really weighty and so the volume adjustment is just 'smoother'.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/trimmings.shtml

I just realised from your quote that for some reason, my spellchecker came out with 'pancakes'!!!!


----------



## Solrighal

iancraig10 said:


> I just realised from your quote that for some reason, my spellchecker came out with 'pancakes'!!!!


 
  
 What was "pancakes" supposed to be?


----------



## iancraig10

I'm not sure... But I've edited it now. The joys of an Ipad!!!!


----------



## richard51

iancraig10 said:


> Expensive, but are really weighty and so the volume adjustment is just 'smoother'.
> 
> http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/trimmings.shtml
> 
> I just realised from your quote that for some reason, my spellchecker came out with 'pancakes'!!!!


 

 what size had you choosen for the Ember ? what a magnificent volume adjustment piece...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 by the way is it difficult to install ?


----------



## mandrake50

iancraig10 said:


> Expensive, but are really weighty and so the volume adjustment is just 'smoother'.
> 
> http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/trimmings.shtml


 
 Those knobs look quite nice. Too bad for me that I can't justify the price, especially with shipping to the US.
 I appreciate the info, but just will have to keep looking.
  
 BTW, I can measure it, but do you know the shaft diameter offhand?


----------



## Solrighal

mandrake50 said:


> Those knobs look quite nice. Too bad for me that I can't justify the price, especially with shipping to the US.
> I appreciate the info, but just will have to keep looking.
> 
> BTW, I can measure it, but do you know the shaft diameter offhand?


 
  
 I have one of these, sourced from the US..
  
http://www.satopartsusa.com/prod_detail/default.cfm?sku=P2K4M5&title=K-52-KE-1%20Metal%20Knob
  
 I think it looks great..
  

  

  
 The only thing is that the Ember is a good bit higher than the Polaris which allows room for it to fit.
  
 That same dealer does have other options though..
  
http://www.satopartsusa.com/prod_cat_list/default.cfm?ref=4-34&title=Products/Metal%20Knob
  
 Hope that helps.
  
 Gordon.


----------



## mandrake50

Thanks for the reminder on the deck height. I do have a Sunrise III that  it would likely fit on. Will have to check on the other options on the site for the Polaris. Same with those knobs that  iancraif10 mentioned. I automatically looked at the 30 mm knobs...
 Bigger is better! (not if it will not fit).
  
 About the shaft diameter..???


----------



## Solrighal

mandrake50 said:


> Thanks for the reminder on the deck height. I do have a Sunrise III that  it would likely fit on. Will have to check on the other options on the site for the Polaris. Same with those knobs that  iancraif10 mentioned. I automatically looked at the 30 mm knobs...
> Bigger is better! (not if it will not fit).
> 
> About the shaft diameter..???


 
  
 Well, the one I'm using in this link seems to suggest it's 6.1mm..
  
http://www.satopartsusa.com/prod_detail/default.cfm?sku=P2K4M5&title=K-52-KE-1%20Metal%20Knob


----------



## mandrake50

This confused me:
  
 1.Retaining screw:M4. (M4=3.8mm/ 0.150 inch)*shaft diameter*.
 2.1/4 inch shaft diameter is *not suitable*.
  
  
 It talks about the retaining screw.. and a vague reference to shaft diameter on the first line. Maybe that refers to the set screw ??
 Then says 1/4 inch (equivalent to 6.5 mm, yes?) is *not suitable.*


----------



## JacobLee89

mandrake50 said:


> This confused me:
> 
> 1.Retaining screw:M4. (M4=3.8mm/ 0.150 inch)*shaft diameter*.
> 2.1/4 inch shaft diameter is *not suitable*.
> ...


 
  
 1. The retaining screw must refer to the *locking* screw that you tighten over the shaft.
  
 2. 6.5mm shaft probably means that you cannot fit any shaft that size into the knob.
  
 source: Having lived with poorly translated chinese -> english throughout my entire life.


----------



## mandrake50

jacoblee89 said:


> 1. The retaining screw must refer to the *locking* screw that you tighten over the shaft.
> 
> 2. 6.5mm shaft probably means that you cannot fit any shaft that size into the knob.
> 
> source: Having lived with poorly translated chinese -> english throughout my entire life.


 

 Probably right.
 I will have to wait until I am back at work and can actually measure the shaft on the Polaris. On vacation now, so that will not be for 10 days. Was just hoping that someone else had the correct diameter so I could try to find something in the interim.


----------



## Solrighal

mandrake50 said:


> Probably right.
> I will have to wait until I am back at work and can actually measure the shaft on the Polaris. On vacation now, so that will not be for 10 days. Was just hoping that someone else had the correct diameter so I could try to find something in the interim.


 
  
 Ask here..
  
http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris


----------



## jbarrentine

Alright. Joining in, Polaris arriving Friday. Having looked around a good bit this was really my best current option. I'm going to utilize the bandwidth selector to tame the T90 a bit.
 If I like it enough I might get an Ember later.
  
 I went for the Aluminum. Sexy.


----------



## Solrighal

I think you'll love it. I did.


----------



## jbarrentine

My polaris didn't come with a manual, can someone describe switch use? 
 Nevermind, found the manual online.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> I have both and personally find the Polaris slightly cleaner for the Senn HD650 but the Ember is nice with th900 because you can get a slightly softer treble edge with it. The tube harmonics warm the Fostex up a little too, I think.
> 
> One that I teally enjoyed and also wished I'd kept is the Horizon actually. Good value amp.


 
 Hi Ian
 Just seen your post-rather belatedly.
 I have paired up my Horizon with a Sylvania 6SN7GT 'Bad Boy' and the sound is just incredible. Much bigger sound stage and dynamics than any of my 9 pins. I am, not very patiently, waiting for Jeremy obtaining the new clear tops with the big holes for the Horizon .
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 PS Still love my Polaris though and more and more using the high frequency band jumpers to improve the sound of my older, poorly remastered, CD's.


----------



## iancraig10

Ah .... You're going all posh now.

The bandwidth adjustment can help the old cd's. At least it softens the digital glare a bit. There aren't many amps that can do that!!


----------



## HOWIE13

Too true- I mean about the glare, not about being posh LOL.
 No more bright violin induced migranes any more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DigitalFreak

For anyone interested, I'm going to be listing my Polaris on the FS forums. Feel free to PM me for more information


----------



## jbarrentine

This is a incredible little amp. I couldn't be happier. It's definitely worlds better than the Vali. I feel like I've never felt the T90 before I plugged them into the Polaris. For anyone on the fence: definitely do it. That slightly rounded edge is just so pleasing. I really want to hear some 650s with this amp. 
  
 edit:
 "I feel like I've never felt the T90 before I plugged them into the Polaris."
  
 I actually meant "heard" and typed "felt". If that's not some kind of base psychological slip I don't know what is. The bass is just incredible on my setup now. I feel like I'm enveloped by the sound. I feel it as well as hear it.


----------



## Jakkal

jbarrentine said:


> This is a incredible little amp. I couldn't be happier. It's definitely worlds better than the Vali. I feel like I've never felt the T90 before I plugged them into the Polaris. For anyone on the fence: definitely do it. That slightly rounded edge is just so pleasing. I really want to hear some 650s with this amp.


 
  I use my Polaris with 650's and it's absolutely wonderful. It puts a lot of power into them and make them sing. It is also great that you can change the output impedance on the fly and change the sound signature a bit.


----------



## SoAmusing777

In the future not too far from now, I actually plan on using these to drive HiFiman's upcoming flagship HE1000.


----------



## JacobLee89

I guess the next sensible upgrade I can imagine from my SeNNator, would be the Project Polaris with a HD650 filter.
  
 Though I may be confusing myself as to whether the filter would slot into the amp itself, or whether the filter is indeed the active filter design already available in DIYAH.


----------



## Solrighal

jacoblee89 said:


> I guess the next sensible upgrade I can imagine from my SeNNator, would be the Project Polaris with a HD650 filter.
> 
> Though I may be confusing myself as to whether the filter would slot into the amp itself, or whether the filter is indeed the active filter design already available in DIYAH.




I think the filter is passive and is placed between the DAC & amp.


----------



## JacobLee89

solrighal said:


> I think the filter is passive and is placed between the DAC & amp.


 
  
 The reason why I was wondering, is because the SeNNator is the filter you speak of, but modified into a working amp for the HD650. The design of that filter is, unfortunately, an active filter design since it needs some power when bumping up the (HD650's) sub bass. Therefore the filter has to be plugged into the wall to work.
  
 If the filter is indeed the DIYAH filter, and not for installation into the Polaris, then I may just be sitting on a comfortable plateau. I am one socket short, and further daisy chaining might cause a spontaneous combustion in my room.
  
 I guess that's a deterrence to Upgradetitus.


----------



## iancraig10

I'm not so sure that they're passive.


----------



## Solrighal

iancraig10 said:


> I'm not so sure that they're passive.




I was just guessing to be honest. I may well be wrong.


----------



## jbarrentine

I'm going to need a dac


----------



## Solrighal

jbarrentine said:


> I'm going to need a dac


 
  
 You have everything you need right there.


----------



## jbarrentine

I want to see what a higher end dac actually sounds like. I wouldn't mind something that can take both optical and coax as well as usb.


----------



## Solrighal

I'd like to hear something better than my ODAC but it's a big jump price-wise to something appreciably better.


----------



## connieflyer

The dac in your odac is a good one, as far as spending alot on dacs, I bought one that has a few inputs, amp and While I like it, it did not make as much diffence as I had hoped.


----------



## Solrighal

connieflyer said:


> The dac in your odac is a good one, as far as spending alot on dacs, I bought one that has a few inputs, amp and While I like it, it did not make as much diffence as I had hoped.


 
  
 That's what I suspect would be the case for me too. I did an online hearing test & it turns out my upper limit is a relatively low 15KHz. From what I've read higher end DAC's tend to focus their improvements on the higher frequencies so it's kinda pointless for me to spend money where I won't get a return.


----------



## BRMSlash

It looks like the Polaris has been updated to version 1.2.  The main difference I see in the schematic is the jfet cathode bypass cap is now always in service (where as it was previously not active in the low gain setting). 
  
 The comments at DIY-Audio-Heaven state:


> The ‘tick’ on changing the gain settings has been addressed in this version. It is easy to retrofit v1.0 (=v1.1 except for the BW settings) if so desired and involves adding a resistor on the bottom of the board.


 
  
 Personally I haven't particularly noticed the 'tick' noise.  However, I think this is a good change as it will help the cathode bypass cap burn in faster.
  
 I've recently been playing with the gain switch again and can now listen to both medium and high gain.  I couldn't do this before due to the treble glare, so the cathode bypass cap mustn't have been burnt in enough before.  Now medium and high gain sound great.  The medium gain provided a bit more clarity, bigger sound stage with smoother tone. Where as the high gain gave more punch and liveliness but with a slightly reduced sound stage and clarity.  I'm a little bit torn between the two settings as I like both for different situations.  Medium gain for spacious vocal songs, but high gain for rock.  I think I'm leaning towards medium gain for general use.  Or maybe I should mod my Polaris to something in between?


----------



## dpump

brmslash said:


> It looks like the Polaris has been updated to version 1.2.  The main difference I see in the schematic is the jfet cathode bypass cap is now always in service (where as it was previously not active in the low gain setting).
> 
> The comments at DIY-Audio-Heaven state:
> 
> ...


 

 BRMSlash,
  
 Can you clarify what you mean by the cathode bypass cap? When I look up jfet, I see drain, gate, and source. I associate cathode with a vacuum tube. So in my limited understanding, I'm lost!


----------



## JacobLee89

solrighal said:


> That's what I suspect would be the case for me too. I did an online hearing test & it turns out my upper limit is a relatively low 15KHz. From what I've read higher end DAC's tend to focus their improvements on the higher frequencies so it's kinda pointless for me to spend money where I won't get a return.


 
  
 aha. I'm not even 30 and my ears are pretty much capped between 14-15k. I suffer from tinnitus though, which could be a contributing factor.
 You're doing great.


----------



## BRMSlash

dpump said:


> BRMSlash,
> Can you clarify what you mean by the cathode bypass cap? When I look up jfet, I see drain, gate, and source. I associate cathode with a vacuum tube. So in my limited understanding, I'm lost!


 
 Yeah, I'm more familiar with tube terminology over transistors, so I was referring to the leg of the jfet that is attached to ground.  So I think it would be 'source' in transistor terminology.


----------



## jbarrentine

I have a 1.2


----------



## Twain250

brmslash said:


> Yeah, I'm more familiar with tube terminology over transistors, so I was referring to the leg of the jfet that is attached to ground.  So I think it would be 'source' in transistor terminology.


 
  
 Yes, when comparing JFET transistors to vacuum tubes…
  
 Source -is the equivalent to Cathode
 Gate -is the equivalent to Grid, and
 Drain -is equivalent to Anode / Plate
  
 Another interesting aspect of JFET’s is that, unlike vacuum tubes, they can operate with different voltage polarities
 depending upon whether they are P-Channel or N-Channel type.


----------



## BRMSlash

@jbarrentine - Nice!
@Twain250 - Cheers. Good info.
  
 Just modded my 1.0 Polaris with the 1.1 start-up delay and 1.2 gain updates.  The shorter start-up time is nice.  The gain mod is reasonably significant as the added resistance for the low gain setting is always in parallel with all the others, so increasing all gains slightly.  Even though it's only slight, I think its bumped up the mid gain setting enough to get that extra impact and liveliness whilst still retaining clarity.  The low gain sounds better too and more consistent with the other gains.


----------



## Aplle

Can anyone recommend Polaris settings to use with the DT 990 (600 ohm)?


----------



## JacobLee89

aplle said:


> Can anyone recommend Polaris settings to use with the DT 990 (600 ohm)?


 
  
 Since it's just switches that you can play around with, and no setting is permanent. The only good recommendation is to just play around until something sounds good.


----------



## Solrighal

aplle said:


> Can anyone recommend Polaris settings to use with the DT 990 (600 ohm)?


 
  
 You'll almost certainly be looking at the high output R setting anyway, the rest depends on your taste. Loads of good options with those cans. Enjoy yourself.


----------



## dpump

Since I have a Solstice and an Ember, I have decided to sell my like new Polaris. Before I list it in the For Sale Forum, I thought I would mention it here in case anyone is interested. Price is $215 including PayPal and shipping. You can email me at d_pumphrey@msn.com. You can check my feedback here under dpump.


----------



## Solrighal

For the community..


----------



## HOWIE13

dpump said:


> Since I have a Solstice and an Ember, I have decided to sell my like new Polaris. Before I list it in the For Sale Forum, I thought I would mention it here in case anyone is interested. Price is $215 including PayPal and shipping. You can email me at d_pumphrey@msn.com. You can check my feedback here under dpump.


 
 Other than the fact you can change more settings with the Ember, do you find there is much difference in the basic sound between the Ember and Solstice?


----------



## Amish

howie13 said:


> Other than the fact you can change more settings with the Ember, do you find there is much difference in the basic sound between the Ember and Solstice?


 
 One of the biggest differences would be power output. Depending on your headphones this could be a factor.


----------



## HOWIE13

amish said:


> One of the biggest differences would be power output. Depending on your headphones this could be a factor.


 
 Thanks, I had not focused on how big the difference in power was. For my highly dynamic, low level recorded classical stuff that could be very important.


----------



## dpump

dpump said:


> Since I have a Solstice and an Ember, I have decided to sell my like new Polaris. Before I list it in the For Sale Forum, I thought I would mention it here in case anyone is interested. Price is $215 including PayPal and shipping. You can email me at d_pumphrey@msn.com. You can check my feedback here under dpump.


 

 Price dropped to $200 including PayPal fee and shipping.


----------



## dpump

howie13 said:


> Other than the fact you can change more settings with the Ember, do you find there is much difference in the basic sound between the Ember and Solstice?


 
 I don't hear any difference between the Ember and Solstice. If the Solstice had been available at the time, I would have gotten it instead of the Ember. I don't use the bandwidth jumpers or the preamp out on the Ember, so the Solstice is a better fit for me. Another reason I got the Solstice is that you can use 12SN7 tubes along with 6SN7 tubes. 12SN7 tubes are identical to 6SN7 tubes except they have a 12-volt heater, and they are less expensive. Plus I have a lot of 12SN7 and 12SX7 tubes already. The slight extra power of the Ember isn't needed on most dynamic phones and on most orthos.


----------



## HOWIE13

dpump said:


> I don't hear any difference between the Ember and Solstice. If the Solstice had been available at the time, I would have gotten it instead of the Ember. I don't use the bandwidth jumpers or the preamp out on the Ember, so the Solstice is a better fit for me. Another reason I got the Solstice is that you can use 12SN7 tubes along with 6SN7 tubes. 12SN7 tubes are identical to 6SN7 tubes except they have a 12-volt heater, and they are less expensive. Plus I have a lot of 12SN7 and 12SX7 tubes already. The slight extra power of the Ember isn't needed on most dynamic phones and on most orthos.


 
 Thanks for that helpful info. Does that mean you can't use 12SN7 tubes with the Ember?


----------



## dpump

howie13 said:


> Thanks for that helpful info. Does that mean you can't use 12SN7 tubes with the Ember?


 

 Correct. You cannot use 12SN7 tubes with the Ember.


----------



## Solrighal

dpump said:


> Correct. You cannot use 12SN7 tubes with the Ember.


 
  
 Doesn't the supercharger enable this?
  
 Edit - No, it doesn't. Only the Solstice can use 12SN7 valves.


----------



## HOWIE13

solrighal said:


> Doesn't the supercharger enable this?
> 
> Edit - No, it doesn't. Only the Solstice can use 12SN7 valves.


 
 And I understand the Horizon and Starlight can't take 12SN7 either.


dpump said:


> Correct. You cannot use 12SN7 tubes with the Ember.


 
 Thanks again for your helpful info.


----------



## Aplle

Does anyone happen to know where you can get colored LEDs for the Polaris?


----------



## HOWIE13

I would try Jeremy.


----------



## iancraig10

aplle said:


> Does anyone happen to know where you can get colored LEDs for the Polaris?




Has yours stopped working?


----------



## Aplle

No, I'm just thinking of changing the color.


----------



## iancraig10

Oh ok. I was going to say that you can dim it or turn it off, but another colour is another led. Just a plug in I think but must be the right way around or it'll blow.


----------



## Solrighal

iancraig10 said:


> Oh ok. I was going to say that you can dim it or turn it off, but another colour is another led. Just a plug in I think but must be the right way around or it'll blow.


 
  
  
 As shown in the Polaris manual..


----------



## Tunkejazz

Hi,
I am on the search for a new amp for my he400i. I currently have a Vali, which I like, but will go to my office.

I would like to try something new, and project ember and polaris come to my mind, along with the Asgard 2.

I have found many posts describing flexibility, but not so much about the sound character of the Garage 1217s. I guess that flexibility makes it more elusive to describe such products. I am not a bass head, but I like a good solid bass impact. From the Vali that I own, I like the harshness free sound, but not so much the high background noise
noise. The bass of the Vali could also be more defined and hit a bit harder.

What do you think about the ember vs polaris in these 2 particular aspects (bass impact and harshness)? 

Finally how do they compare with the Asgard 2?


----------



## Amish

@Tunkejazz
 They both sound very similar actually, (Ember & Polaris). The Ember is a hybrid amp so IMO it has characteristics of a solid state with the ability to change the sound with tubes. I own both amps and the Ember is hands down the best for me. Both push the same watts and more than enough power for most any headphones. Neither is harsh IMO. I've bought the Ember twice now so that should say how much I like it. But my Polaris actually compares well with the Ember sound wise.
  
 I think if your headphones can do the bass the Polaris or Ember will do a fine job. With the Ember though the tube can change the FR so it is more dependent on the tube you run. For bass I tend to gravitate towards the amperex 12ax7 tubes, in my case the several bugle boy tubes I own.
  
 Buying the 6sn7 adapter and a VT-231 designated tube I think you will have all the bass you need but only your ears can judge. What i find as solid bass punch you might find weak. We are all different in how we hear and what we prefer. I can say that I am a bit of a bass head though, which would explain the Velodyne 15" and Hsu Research 12" subs in my home theater room. Or the Sound Splinter 15" sub in the trunk of my car.
  
 One more thing, Buying from garage1217 you not only get a very sweet amp that hits well above it's price but you also get the most awesome customer service with Jeremy. This dude goes above and beyond with his customer service. I feel like I owe this guy something for all the help he's provided me. This is the type of customer service that is hard to find and makes you feel like He's not just some guy selling **** but one of your buds.


----------



## Tunkejazz

amish said:


> @Tunkejazz
> 
> They both sound very similar actually, (Ember & Polaris). The Ember is a hybrid amp so IMO it has characteristics of a solid state with the ability to change the sound with tubes. I own both amps and the Ember is hands down the best for me. Both push the same watts and more than enough power for most any headphones. Neither is harsh IMO. I've bought the Ember twice now so that should say how much I like it. But my Polaris actually compares well with the Ember sound wise.
> 
> ...




Thanks! I am not sure I am any close to decide though  i can see the charm of rolling tubes...but also the charm of not having to do it (polaris)!

 I am based in Sweden and importing from the US is a real pain (of fees and taxes). I wish they had a retailer inside the EU. Because this will affect the availability of tubes.

BTW, suggestions for dacs under 200 for the ember/polaris?


----------



## Amish

I think you'd be happy with the Polaris. I bet you'd be happy with the Asgard 2 as well. Personally the Schiit amp I considered at one time was the Lyr 2 but opted for the Ember instead.
  
 As for DACS well I'm the wrong guy for that question as I have no experience with any DACs in that price range. I know people who have stated that the Schiit modi and Loki both work really well with the Ember and Polaris. So one of those might be a good start. Depends on what sort of connections you need I suppose.


----------



## richard51

no way the polaris can sound the same if you put 7193 tubes with Ember..... i had not listen but the upgrade tube was  very high upgrade...for me


----------



## Amish

richard51 said:


> no way the polaris can sound the same if you put 7193 tubes with Ember..... i had not listen but the upgrade tube was  very high upgrade...for me


 
 I cannot compare since I do not have that 'upgrade' but I think most people that either own both amps or have A/B both of them would  have to admit they share sound characteristics. Not claiming they are equal but....


----------



## richard51

amish said:


> I cannot compare since I do not have that 'upgrade' but I think most people that either own both amps or have A/B both of them would  have to admit they share sound characteristics. Not claiming they are equal but....


 

 i am sure you are right witout the 6sn7 tube and without the 7193 the two had certainly similarities i read that also....but the difference between the straight Ember  and the Ember +6sn7 tube was there for me... The difference between the 6sn7 tube and the 7193 was greater...Hence people with the straight ember can claims with the polaris similiraties... But i wait for a comparison between Ember+7193 tubes and any amp under one thousand dollars....


----------



## Amish

richard51 said:


> i am sure you are right witout the 6sn7 tube and without the 7193 the two had certainly similarities i read that also....but the difference between the straight Ember  and the Ember +6sn7 tube was there for me... The difference between the 6sn7 tube and the 7193 was greater...Hence people with the straight ember can claims with the polaris similiraties... But i wait for a comparison between Ember+7193 tubes and any amp under one thousand dollars....


 
 Do you own the Polaris by chance? If not then I don't see how you can even comment. BUT I do agree with the 7193 tube difference. I don't agree with the 6sn7 difference though because I have tubes for the standard Ember that perform on par. I cannot comment on the 7193 though as I do not have it but damn I might buy it tonight just to A/B.
 curiosity
 Please don't take offense to my above question about the Polaris and you owning one. It was more a curiosity than anything. Until I hear the 7193 I honestly cannot say one way or the other.


----------



## richard51

amish said:


> Do you own the Polaris by chance? If not then I don't see how you can even comment. BUT I do agree with the 7193 tube difference. I don't agree with the 6sn7 difference though because I have tubes for the standard Ember that perform on par. I cannot comment on the 7193 though as I do not have it but damn I might buy it tonight just to A/B.
> curiosity
> Please don't take offense to my above question about the Polaris and you owning one. It was more a curiosity than anything. Until I hear the 7193 I honestly cannot say one way or the other.


 

 i dont take offence... i said that after my own experience and deduction.... all people ( preference aside) have said on their review that the 2 are on par, different yes, but with a family resemblance but this people who compared the 2 amp no one compared it with the 7193 tubes...... When i upgrade with the 7193 the upgrade was so great that i deduce that the Ember is the FLAGSHIP effectively because with the 7193 he is certainly no more on par with the polaris now.....not necessary hence to have listen to the polaris which cannot upgrade by himself.... I said what i said by deducing all that because of the very great upgrade i experienced myself ( if two amp are on par but one may upgrade with a tube and the other cannot hence its a logical deduction to say that the upgradable one is superior with the right upgrade tube )I already said that i will repeat myself , no one had listen the Ember potential without the 7193 tubes......Have you read the post  where i had collected reviews of people on the net about the 7193  compared to the 6sn7 ? they are all unanimous without any doubt... its because of that i bought the 7193 tubes and adapter.....


----------



## Amish

Where are you all buying the 7193 tube in pairs? Seems like not much to be had on ebay and google....let me know.. most of what I am finding is over in Europe. I would prefer USA but will buy there if I have to.


----------



## richard51

all tube are not equal in the same family.......For example if your 12at7 or 12au 7 or 6dj8 prefered tube is one of the best of the family perhaps if the 6sn7 tube is not one of the best in his family, you will not enjoyed an upgrade with it ..... But in general if you read reviews 6sn7 are in "general" better than most other straight tubes for the Ember..... I had bought different 6sn7 they are not equal... My best was a stromberg carlson tube.... But the upgrade with the 7193 tubes was way more evident and spectacular  than the one i experienced with my prefered bugle boy 12au7 to the 6sn7....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 for the 6sn7 tube be patient and wait for 2 kenrad


----------



## Amish

I'm done looking for 6SN7 because I already have the best 6sn7 I think I'll ever find. That said I feel I need to touch this topic again. I think the 6sn7 is = to my best 12ax7's and 12at7's but the 6sn7 is more open.
  
 Now i'm thinking i need to try the 7193 just to see what you are all tripping about.
  
 i can buy a couple of 7193 ken rads...i would prefer to buy from a usa seller though...


----------



## HOWIE13

Following this discussion with great interest. I have an Horizon 3 and Starlight and am using 6SN7's at present. Am I right in thinking the 7193 is a _single _triode and therefore not only would you need a matched pair but also some form of adapter with a circuit board to connect into the 6SN7 to 6DJ8  adapter first? Does it matter if I was using a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter as I have both?
 I think I have seen these 7193 to 6DJ8 adapters for sale on eBay from China. They seem to have four leads sticking out from them. What are the four leads for? Is it just connect and play and ignore the four leads, and does the Ember auto bias the two 7193's without any problem?
 My only concern here is the multiple connections and adapters possibly adversely affecting the sound quality, particularly with the potential for noisy connections and microphony, which I find more prevalent with the 6SN7's. I read this is something to do with their construction compared to 6DJ8's. Having said that, like you, I love their rich, holographic sound.
  
 EDIT: Don't think there will be enough room for the adapter to fit into the Horizon because of the heat sinks. Should fit Starlight though.


----------



## iancraig10

I am using an Orange Globe wkith my Ember at the moment and I also have a Polaris.

For me, the Polaris has a slightly 'cleaner' sound and the Ember is more 'entertaining' with it's more tubey sound. With the change of tube, are you sure that you're not hearing more tube 'harmonics' which are in effect, somethimg planted on top of the sound.

It is very pleasant and can be euphonic, but that might be the reason for many prefering the Ember to the Polaris. On instant comparison, the Ember is more colourful by a fraction, depending on what tube tou use.


----------



## richard51

the colourful effect is one thing for sure that distinct the Ember .....But with the 7193 tube its not only a new coloration but especially a larger and more precise soundstage with a big effect  directly with the headphones  or with the pre/amp/out with my stax and speakers...its the reason that this tube is very great upgrade


----------



## richard51

howie13 said:


> Following this discussion with great interest. I have an Horizon 3 and Starlight and am using 6SN7's at present. Am I right in thinking the 7193 is a _single _triode and therefore not only would you need a matched pair but also some form of adapter with a circuit board to connect into the 6SN7 to 6DJ8  adapter first? Does it matter if I was using a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter as I have both?
> I think I have seen these 7193 to 6DJ8 adapters for sale on eBay from China. They seem to have four leads sticking out from them. What are the four leads for? Is it just connect and play and ignore the four leads, and does the Ember auto bias the two 7193's without any problem?
> My only concern here is the multiple connections and adapters possibly adversely affecting the sound quality, particularly with the potential for noisy connections and microphony, which I find more prevalent with the 6SN7's. I read this is something to do with their construction compared to 6DJ8's. Having said that, like you, I love their rich, holographic sound.
> 
> EDIT: Don't think there will be enough room for the adapter to fit into the Horizon because of the heat sinks. Should fit Starlight though.


 

 read the pages on the audio heaven thread about the Ember and begin at this page (77).... all is explained with little research about the tube 7193.....Buy the transparent adapter , this dealer i know is honest :
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6C8P-2C22-7193-CV6-CV3601-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191551519526?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c995c3b26
  
 http://diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember?page=77


----------



## HOWIE13

richard51 said:


> read the pages on the audio heaven thread about the Ember and begin at this page (77).... all is explained with little research about the tube 7193.....Buy the transparent adapter , this dealer i know is honest :
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6C8P-2C22-7193-CV6-CV3601-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191551519526?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c995c3b26
> 
> http://diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember?page=77


 
 Thanks, I'll do that.
 Cheers.


----------



## connieflyer

As Richard51 suggests, when reading the diyah at page 77 continue on for a few more pages and you can see the discussion advance.  I have tried about 20 different 9 pins, Mullards, Telefunken, JJ, Amperex bugle boys and prefer my 6sn7  execellent Ken-Rad Vt231 to any of those.  Now that I have been using the Ken-Rad 7193's and adapter, I wish I would not have spent $80 on the new KEn-Rad, not that it isn't excellent, it is, but the 7193's have made my system with the Ember and 7193's, Emotiva XDR 2 dac, Harman-Kardan AVR 510 into Electro-Voice Sentry V speakers, the sounds are wonderful and the music stage is very large. Listening through the 650's, is excellent as well.  If you go looking for 7193's  check this page on Ebay.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/371329485983?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT contact the seller Rosemarie3878, great seller, bought my first pair of matched Ken-rads from him and asked him if he could get more, and he got me two more.  Great tubes, NOS from 1942.  I am very satisfied with his store.
 The speakers most of you will not recognize as they are vintage, I bought new back in the early '70s, 10 inch woofer 8 inch horn, and they still sound clear as a bell.


----------



## richard51

Electro-Voice Sentry V speakers are  cult follower speakers .... its sound super good if i read about them.... Like my monsoon planars they are so good that they had cult followers ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 were lucky you and I ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they are difficult to have now they are  no more existing marvels....


----------



## connieflyer

They still get the job done.  The have an amazing clarity, and in their day they were used in studios as studio monitors,  very accurate.  The horns really make the sound special, I know that there has been a lot of advances in mids-treble speakers but the horns just seem to open up the sound and makes a wide stage.


----------



## richard51

i am sure they are special.... like my monsoon mm 2000... incredible clarity on all the range of frequencies....more interesting than my stax .......


----------



## CanadianMaestro

My Polaris arrived today, and I had some time to listen to it, with HD650, iPod Classic 7G and HP-P1 DAC. Plugged into Furman PST6 power bar. Very nice combo. Tracks by Rob Wasserman, Madeleine Peyroux, Mozart str. quartets. Bass texture is realistic, rarely bloated, dynamics very easy. Treble is clear but never harsh, especially with violins. I have the gain at low, bandwidth at high, and output R at low. Instrument placement on large-scale orch pieces isn't as punctate as I had hoped for. Soundstage depth is rather shallow, not as deep as say, BHA-1. But that's an unfair comparison, as BHA-1 is priced at 4x the Polaris. Nonetheless,  Polaris does brass and cymbals very well, with a sheen and timbre that are quite authentic thru the 650. Woodwinds are exquisite. Plenty of power here; I never had to go past 11am on the volume knob.
  
 Overall, Polaris is a great value and will stay here for a long time. Highly recommended for the 650. (Will listen to it with HE560 next week).  Congrats and thanks to Jeremy and Frans at G-1217! They have a true giant-killer here.
  
 Edit: deleted "cond."


----------



## mandrake50

canadianmaestro said:


> My Polaris arrived today, and I had some time to listen to it, with HD650, iPod Classic 7G and HP-P1 DAC. Plugged into Furman PST6 power cond. Very nice combo. Tracks by Rob Wasserman, Madeleine Peyroux, Mozart str. quartets. Bass texture is realistic, rarely bloated, dynamics very easy. Treble is clear but never harsh, especially with violins. I have the gain at low, bandwidth at high, and output R at low. Instrument placement on large-scale orch pieces isn't as *punctate* as I had hoped for. Soundstage depth is rather shallow, not as deep as say, BHA-1. But that's an unfair comparison, as BHA-1 is priced at 4x the Polaris. Nonetheless,  Polaris does brass and cymbals very well, with a sheen and timbre that are quite authentic thru the 650. Woodwinds are exquisite. Plenty of power here; I never had to go past 11am on the volume knob.
> 
> Overall, Polaris is a great value and will stay here for a long time. Highly recommended for the 650. (Will listen to it with HE560 next week).  Congrats and thanks to Jeremy and Frans at G-1217! They have a true giant-killer here.


 
 Sounds as though you like . So do I. Have been using it for a few weeks with the 560 driven by a DC1. It never lacks for power driving the 560. I run mine with the same settings that you called out BTW.
 I do have to ask, what does "punctate" mean? I tried to figure out by context what you meant, but could not. Also. I have been considering some kind of power conditioner. When you mentioned the Furman PST6, I took a look at them. All I saw for that model was the surge protection. I think the PST 8D was the first one in the line with the linear filtering and SMP.  Does your PST6 actually do any conditioning? I would be happy to save the close to $30 over the 8D if it does. I just didn't see it in any of the descriptions that I found.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mandrake50 said:


> Sounds as though you like . So do I. Have been using it for a few weeks with the 560 driven by a DC1. It never lacks for power driving the 560.
> I do have to ask, what does "punctate" mean? I tried to figure out by context what you meant, but could not. Also. I have been considering some kind of power conditioner. When you mentioned the Furman PST6, I took a look at them. All I saw for that model was the surge protection. I think the PST 8D was the first one in the line with the linear filtering and SMP.  Does your PST6 actually do any conditioning? I would be happy to save the close to $30 over the 8D if it does. I just didn't see it in any of the descriptions that I found.


 

 "Punctate" means point-to-point.
  
 PST6 has AC noise attenuation, not "conditioning". My brain cramp. have edited my OP.
 Specs:
 http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=PST-6


----------



## mandrake50

OK.. I thought it was a misspelled word.
 Now I find this:
 "indicated with dots or points distinguished from the adjacent region by elevation, texture, or color".
 I get it now, but something I had not seen used before... maybe just the tiniest bit obscure... still.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Will check the link.
  
 Edit, I checked, I don't see that the unit has filtering, just surge/over volt protection.
 Compare it to the description of the 8D.
  
 What is missing is
  
 SMP provides the highest level of protection available

LiFT significantly reduces AC line noise
E.V.S. protects equipment from dangerous overvoltage conditions
Zero ground contamination circuitry assures the delivery of pure AC power thus protecting critical audio/video components
 
  I guess I will have to spring for the $85 for the 8D. It is the cheapest one I see with their advanced filtering.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mandrake50 said:


> OK.. I thought it was a misspelled word.
> Now I find this:
> "indicated with dots or points distinguished from the adjacent region by elevation, texture, or color".
> I get it now, but something I had not seen used before... maybe just the tiniest bit obscure... still.
> ...


 
  
  
 The Specs tab on that link to PST6:
  

*Power Consumption:*6 Watts for control circuits independent of actual load*AC Noise Attenuation:*Transverse (Differential) Mode:
 > 40 dB from 150 kHz - 100 MHz*Dimensions:*2.75” H x 3.75” W x 13.5” D


----------



## HOWIE13

Good though they are, I don't find the HD650 an ideal can for the punctate detailed, open, deep, spacious, holographic sound of a large orchestra. My preferences for this type of music are the DT88O, an AKG like the 712, or even the HP100 and 200. The Polaris synergises beautifully with all these, on mid or high gain, low output impedance and high bandwidth. The AKG 701 is also very good, though I lower the bandwidth to the mid setting for these cans. That's the beauty of the Polaris, it's so adaptable.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

howie13 said:


> Good though they are, I don't find the HD650 an ideal can for the punctate detailed, open, deep, spacious, holographic sound of a large orchestra. My preferences for this type of music are the DT88O, an AKG like the 712, or even the HP100 and 200. The Polaris synergises beautifully with all these, on mid or high gain, low output impedance and high bandwidth. The AKG 701 is also very good, though I lower the bandwidth to the mid setting for these cans. That's the beauty of the Polaris, it's so adaptable.


 

 I agree about 650 and large-scale symphonic music (have posted on a few threads this observation).


----------



## mandrake50

canadianmaestro said:


> The Specs tab on that link to PST6:
> 
> 
> *Power Consumption:*6 Watts for control circuits independent of actual load*AC Noise Attenuation:*Transverse (Differential) Mode:
> > 40 dB from 150 kHz - 100 MHz*Dimensions:*2.75” H x 3.75” W x 13.5” D


 

 If I would have read this sooner, I could have saved ~$20. Though it does look like the 8 D has a few more  gadgets.
 I picked up a PL-PLUS DMC a few weeks ago. Was looking for something with the power strip form factor that did the same things with filtering. The 8 D was the only one that did.
 In any case, it seems you have to look beyond the marketing hype descriptions to see what is going on. I still have to wonder if 40DB of filtering at 100K is going to make an audible difference.
  
 Soon to have my Polaris and DC1 plugged into the 8D in any case.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mandrake50 said:


> If I would have read this sooner, I could have saved ~$20. Though it does look like the 8 D has a few more  gadgets.
> I picked up a PL-PLUS DMC a few weeks ago. Was looking for something with the power strip form factor that did the same things with filtering. The 8 D was the only one that did.
> In any case, it seems you have to look beyond the marketing hype descriptions to see what is going on. I still have to wonder if 40DB of filtering at 100K is going to make an audible difference.


 

 I think you should be fine. Unless you are plugged into a power grid in a condo complex/apt bldg, surge protection is probably more critical than filtration. You may not hear a significant difference with SS amps. Maybe with tube amps ("hum") and then only with some models.


----------



## ziggysp2000

I just received my Polaris today, have 2 - 3 hours on it so far. It does a really good job with my HD800 especially considering how inexpensive it is; deeply impressive. Seeing as this is a work amp, it almost makes me want to get a second HD800 for work! I have some AKG K7xx on the way, hopefully that'll at least calm the desire 
  
 This is a very desirable little amp, and it packs a punch for it's size. Like it better than I did my soloist SL back in the day, which is 2 - 3x more money.
  
 Maybe just the honeymoon phase talking (though I doubt it), but this hands down my new recommendation for a budget SS amp. It is beautifully made / simple, even considering all the variables it provides.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

ziggysp2000 said:


> I just received my Polaris today, have 2 - 3 hours on it so far. It does a really good job with my HD800 especially considering how inexpensive it is; deeply impressive. Seeing as this is a work amp, it almost makes me want to get a second HD800 for work! I have some AKG K7xx on the way, hopefully that'll at least calm the desire
> 
> This is a very desirable little amp, and it packs a punch for it's size. Like it better than I did my soloist SL back in the day, which is 2 - 3x more money.
> 
> Maybe just the honeymoon phase talking (though I doubt it), but this hands down my new recommendation for a budget SS amp. It is beautifully made / simple, even considering all the variables it provides.


 

 congrats.
  
 did you get the acrylic or the metal casing (aluminum)?


----------



## ziggysp2000

canadianmaestro said:


> congrats.
> 
> did you get the acrylic or the metal casing (aluminum)?


 
  Acrylic, and really glad I did. The thing is captivating to look at, and is somehow very satisfying to my OCD. Everything is so nicely spaced and laid out; wouldn't be able to see that with the metal casing!
  
 I did switch to a white LED from blue, and dimmed it a bit, perfect.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

ziggysp2000 said:


> Acrylic, and really glad I did. The thing is captivating to look at, and is somehow very satisfying to my OCD. Everything is so nicely spaced and laid out; wouldn't be able to see that with the metal casing!
> 
> I did switch to a white LED from blue, and dimmed it a bit, perfect.


 

 I just gotta avoid handling the casing and damaging those protruding jumpers on the G, Z, and Attenuation switches!


----------



## Jeff Y

ziggysp2000 said:


> Acrylic, and really glad I did. The thing is captivating to look at, and is somehow very satisfying to my* OCD*.


 
 Wait till it starts to collect dust...


----------



## iancraig10

That calls for the big blower and a paint brush!! Every couple of weeks, mine gets a blow for the guts and a brushing for the top. Had mine since they came out and it's pristine.

I've even given the tube top a dusting!!!


----------



## HOWIE13

jeff y said:


> Wait till it starts to collect dust...


 
 The Giotto Rocket is what you need
  
 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=giotto+rocket+blower&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CEsQsARqFQoTCKGT0fuI5MYCFQI5FAodI_gM_A


----------



## Solrighal

howie13 said:


> The Giotto Rocket is what you need
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=giotto+rocket+blower&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CEsQsARqFQoTCKGT0fuI5MYCFQI5FAodI_gM_A


 
  
 +1


----------



## Jeff Y

howie13 said:


> The Giotto Rocket is what you need
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=giotto+rocket+blower&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CEsQsARqFQoTCKGT0fuI5MYCFQI5FAodI_gM_A


 
 or any dust blower I guess.


solrighal said:


>


 
 Lol, so it does exist.


----------



## ziggysp2000

Oh worry not! I have such tools, the dust will stay off it!  I thought of this long before I bought it... especially where it is an open design, want to be able to get dust off the board.


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> The Giotto Rocket is what you need
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=giotto+rocket+blower&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CEsQsARqFQoTCKGT0fuI5MYCFQI5FAodI_gM_A




That's the one!!

I sometimes puff my mouth for fun and get tunes......

Sad eh?


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> That's the one!!
> 
> I sometimes puff my mouth for fun and get tunes......
> 
> Sad eh?


 
 I puff my ears to give them a good clean out too


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I drape a silk scarf over Polaris when not in use. Same with WA6 in MBR.


----------



## richard51

canadianmaestro said:


> I drape a silk scarf over Polaris when not in use. Same with WA6 in MBR.


 

 this is the most intelligent and delicate implementation of a protective gear.... But i dont have silk scarf..... good idea though !


----------



## CanadianMaestro

richard51 said:


> this is the most intelligent and delicate implementation of a protective gear.... But i dont have silk scarf..... good idea though !


 
 anything smooth and soft will do. Not a bath towel, though.
 Works as a dust cover on headphones too (stand or not).
  
 thanks.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Polaris + drape/no drape


----------



## Rudiger

Wow, a real strip-tease here !


----------



## CanadianMaestro

rudiger said:


> Wow, a real strip-tease here !


 
  
 Vive la Burlesque!


----------



## Solrighal

I have no need for a dust cover as my Ember is hardly ever off.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Tubes are great, since central heating isn't viable in parts of Scotland......


----------



## Solrighal

canadianmaestro said:


> Tubes are great, since central heating isn't viable in parts of Scotland......


 
  
 What! I hope that's some kind of joke.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I was in Edinburgh a few yrs back, in late fall. Did an external PhD exam at the U of Edinburgh's neuroscience Centre, a modern facility -- so I thought. The exam was in a modern bldg. But no central heating -- they carried around area heaters for our committee. Damp and chilly.
  
 Beautiful country and nice people, just outdated with the piping/heating/IT systems.


----------



## Solrighal

canadianmaestro said:


> I was in Edinburgh a few yrs back, in late fall. Did an external PhD exam at the U of Edinburgh's neuroscience Centre, a modern facility -- so I thought. The exam was in a modern bldg. But no central heating -- they carried around area heaters for our committee. Damp and chilly.
> 
> Beautiful country and nice people, just outdated with the piping/heating/IT systems.


 
  
 That building's older than Canada mate.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

solrighal said:


> That building's older than Canada mate.


 
  
  


canadianmaestro said:


> I was in Edinburgh a few yrs back, in late fall. Did an external PhD exam at the U of Edinburgh's neuroscience Centre, a modern facility -- so I thought. The exam was in a modern bldg. But no central heating -- they carried around area heaters for our committee. Damp and chilly.
> 
> Beautiful country and nice people, just outdated with the piping/heating/IT systems.


 
  
  
 Nope. Actually newly built in 2005. But i get the joke. No hard feelings.
 Going back next year for the Edin. Festival.


----------



## Solrighal

We're not having a festival next year. We're busy with other more pressing matters.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Edin Military Tatoo 2016.


----------



## Solrighal

canadianmaestro said:


> Edin Military Tatoo 2016.




Like I said, subject to change.


----------



## bixby

canadianmaestro said:


> I drape a silk scarf over Polaris when not in use. Same with WA6 in MBR.


 

 Great way to generate some potentially circuit damaging static discharge.  
  
 Silk and acrylic are pretty high on the list:  triboelectric effect


----------



## CanadianMaestro

bixby said:


> Great way to generate some potentially circuit damaging static discharge.
> 
> Silk and acrylic are pretty high on the list:  triboelectric effect


 

 Hasn't happened yet. Not everything's that written comes true.
  
*Actually* -- thanks for the heads-up. I will keep an antenna out for static build-up.


----------



## H2Ologd

I just placed my order for a Polaris today. Jeremy has been very helpful answering many questions I've emailed this week. I intend to use it between a Dragonfly and my Noble 3. Maybe try my X5 as a source as well.


----------



## SoAmusing777

It's powerful enough to drive the HE-6, but is it powerful enough to drive the HE-1000, TO IT'S MAX capabilities though? Obviously if it can drive the 6 it will drive the 1000 because the 1000 is more efficient. To what extent is the golden question though.


----------



## jbarrentine

h2ologd said:


> I just placed my order for a Polaris today. Jeremy has been very helpful answering many questions I've emailed this week. I intend to use it between a Dragonfly and my Noble 3. Maybe try my X5 as a source as well.


 
  
 Well? How do you like it? I love mine.


----------



## H2Ologd

Hey,  Sorry I took so long to respond, but have been busy.
  
 I like it.  I had it running between a Wavelength Proton and a OPPO PM-3 I was borrowing.  I mainly bought it for using my Noble 3 as it is very sensitive and I hear noise on most systems.  I feel it opened up the soundstage a bit, and I like the ability to adjust the gain and output.  I played a lot with it on different settings.  I was really surprised at how much louder it pushes with the module off.  I have some new wireworld cables coming and will continue to try it.  I need to spend more time with it, there are so many settings to adjust, I want to continue playing around so I can find all it has to offer.


----------



## HOWIE13

h2ologd said:


> Hey,  Sorry I took so long to respond, but have been busy.
> 
> I like it.  I had it running between a Wavelength Proton and a OPPO PM-3 I was borrowing.  I mainly bought it for using my Noble 3 as it is very sensitive and I hear noise on most systems.  I feel it opened up the soundstage a bit, and I like the ability to adjust the gain and output.  I played a lot with it on different settings.  I was really surprised at how much louder it pushes with the module off.  I have some new wireworld cables coming and will continue to try it.  I need to spend more time with it, there are so many settings to adjust, I want to continue playing around so I can find all it has to offer.


 
 Great isn't it.
 You probably already know that if you want to fine tune the input gain up or down to make full use of the vol pot you can purchase dip-8 sockets (I think Jeremy does them) and insert your own resistors to suite different recordings. I made several from 10kohm to 60kohm.
 I think the stock one that came with my Polaris was about 22kohm (could be wrong there), so there's lots more fun in store for you with this fabulous sounding, versatile Polaris!


----------



## H2Ologd

Thanks for the tip.  I had Jeremy ship it with a 10k installed for me.  So far, I can switch that off, and have more than enough volume control.  Mainly I have it on, and have been trying different settings.  There is a lot of adjustments available and I will have have fun trying them all out.


----------



## iamxLn

Can anyone the polaris to the magni? Looking for an upgrade, never fell in love with magni.


----------



## mandrake50

iamxln said:


> Can anyone the polaris to the magni?


 
 Just curious, what are you asking. Can anyone "what" the Polaris to the Magni?  Connect, compare ???


----------



## Tunkejazz

mandrake50 said:


> Just curious, what are you asking. Can anyone "what" the Polaris to the Magni?  Connect, compare ???


 
  
 Probably compare, right @iamxLn ? Why would anyone want to connect a headphone amp to a headphone amp ?


----------



## mandrake50

You know what they say about assuming...
  
 AND, I have seen even more puzzling questions than connecting an amp to an amp... which could be done with the Polaris. Line out to line in!
  I guess I am curious about why people don't read what they post and to get clarification on what the question really is.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Not everyone on HF writes perfect English, I suppose. It's a wonder that so many do so well with written English when it's not their first language.


----------



## iamxLn

Yes, compare. I was typing on my awful work tablet and missed that.


----------



## Tunkejazz

iamxln said:


> Yes, compare. I was typing on my awful work tablet and missed that.


 
 I cannot comment on those two amps exactly. But if it helps anything, I have a Schiit Vali and a Project Ember, which are respectively very close to those two that you mention. Beware that I am quite novel at describing these things and that I am giving my (biased) personal opinion. Others may think differently. I did compare these two some time ago with my Naim Dac as source.
  
 The Vali is a very good amp and it poses a huge step up from any computer or phone headphone  jack. Compare to the Magni, it is supposed to have a slight roll-off at the upper and lower ends, but to be honest to my ears it still has some brightness that I find fatiguing after a while. The Ember has less emphasis in the treeble and more slam in the bass, but this balance can be altered with the tube and all the settings that it allows you to play with. Furthermore, it clearly has a different timbre which actually makes it easier to separate instruments.  It is quite a lot of fun to listen to. For me, the intriguing part is how does the Ember manage to achieve better (3D) staging and better detail retrieval without showing any harshness.  I don't want to sound negative towards the Vali, at its price level I think it is unbeatable, but now and then you get stings from the treeble that I am quite sensitive to.
  
 I can listen to the Vali for 30 min to 1 hour, then I find it a bit fatiguing. I can listen to the Ember for hours without being tired of the sound (rather of the comfort of my headphones, HE400i). I suspect the Polaris retains a similar timbre as the Ember, but with a more accurate/cleaner sound (depending on the tube mounted in the Ember of course).
  
 I hope you find it useful, I was a bit reluctant to order the Ember because I live in Europe, but I am very glad I did.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## iamxLn

It's between ember and Polaris for me, I keep wanting to hear that the Polaris is better in some way but it doesn't seem like it. Main reason is that my little dot was a gift and I don't want to shelf it so soon.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

iamxln said:


> It's between ember and Polaris for me, I keep wanting to hear that the Polaris is better in some way but it doesn't seem like it. Main reason is that my little dot was a gift and I don't want to shelf it so soon.


 

 If you value more accuracy with a touch of tube-like harmonic distortion, get the Polaris. But if you are a hard-core tube fan who doesn't want to spend a ton of $ (who does?), then Ember. They both have gobs of power to drive even planars like my 560. I don't like tube-rolling, so Polaris was an easy fix for me. No regrets. And remembr the Law of Diminishing Returns.


----------



## iamxLn

My main hesitation is that I never loved the magni, because I got more low end thump from the little dot and it also gave more air, sound stage, and detail at the same time. So I don't know if this is just an innate feature of tubes over solid state or if the magni is just an mediocre entry level amp. All I've heard is my own gear.


----------



## iancraig10

canadianmaestro said:


> If you value more accuracy with a touch of tube-like harmonic distortion, get the Polaris. But if you are a hard-core tube fan who doesn't want to spend a ton of $ (who does?), then Ember. They both have gobs of power to drive even planars like my 560. I don't like tube-rolling, so Polaris was an easy fix for me. No regrets. And remembr the Law of Diminishing Returns.




I have both and I also get less noise from the Polaris. Tubes can be quite noisy, although they sound nice. I prefer the slightly cleaner sound of the Polaris in all honesty, but I can see the attraction of tubes and rolling. There's a kind of nostalgic bliss with tubes....


----------



## HOWIE13

iamxln said:


> My main hesitation is that I never loved the magni, because I got more low end thump from the little dot and it also gave more air, sound stage, and detail at the same time. So I don't know if this is just an innate feature of tubes over solid state or if the magni is just an mediocre entry level amp. All I've heard is my own gear.


 
 Which LD do you have?
 I don't know the Magni but the Polaris is exceptionally good value and has a good and well controlled low end. You can also fine tune the upper frequencies a little, as you no doubt have read on the Garage 1217 website.
 Polaris is also configurable, using input modules, for different headphone impedance/ sensitivity. The Magni doesn't give you this flexibility.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

iamxln said:


> So I don't know if this is just an innate feature of tubes over solid state or if the *magni is just an mediocre entry level amp.* All I've heard is my own gear.


 
 According to Schiit's website and hierarchy, Magni is an entry-level amp.
 http://schiit.com/products
  
 So, going to Polaris would be a substantive upgrade, I think. I suspect the internal workmanship (CB layout, etc.) is superior on Polaris by far.
  
 cheers


----------



## HOWIE13

howie13 said:


> Which LD do you have?
> I don't know the Magni but the Polaris is exceptionally good value and has a good and well controlled low end. You can also fine tune the upper frequencies a little, as you no doubt have read on the Garage 1217 website.
> Polaris is also configurable, using input modules, for different headphone impedance/ sensitivity. The Magni doesn't give you this flexibility.


 
 Ah- how silly of me, I now see from your Profile you have an LD1. I should have looked before!
 I have an LD2/2 and the Polaris for me is an improvement in all areas, except that the LD2 has a very nice airy top end which is rather special. However, if you adjust the high bandwidth settings of the Polaris you can approach a similar top-end sound signature.  Therefore, with the Polaris you should achieve what you are looking for, with improved overall sound and configurability compared to the Magni, whilst you still have a nice tube amp with your LD, to enjoy, and for tube rolling.
 If you buy the Ember you will also have a great amplifier-but it's another tube amp and SS does have some advantages (and disadvantages) over tubes which I'm sure you have read about in the many debates in the Forums on this topic. I find it's fun to have both.


----------



## mandrake50

iamxln said:


> My main hesitation is that I never loved the magni, because I got more low end thump from the little dot and it also gave more air, sound stage, and detail at the same time. So I don't know if this is just an innate feature of tubes over solid state or if the magni is just an mediocre entry level amp. All I've heard is my own gear.


 

 I think that amplifier design trumps whether it is solid state or tube based. I just read a quote by Dr. Cavalli, a respected designer who designs and produces both tube and SS amps He basically said the same thing. The Magni is decent, but probably should not be used to make any statement about how any other SS amp is going to sound. Reading about it, and from my few encounters with it, it sounds a bit thin. 
 I have never found the Polaris to lack bass extension and detail. I have not heard the Little Dot, so I can't compare it to the Polaris, but I have heard the Magni on a few occasions. I would take the Polaris any day... for my tastes anyway.


----------



## iamxLn

howie13 said:


> Ah- how silly of me, I now see from your Profile you have an LD1. I should have looked before!
> I have an LD2/2 and the Polaris for me is an improvement in all areas, except that the LD2 has a very nice airy top end which is rather special. However, if you adjust the high bandwidth settings of the Polaris you can approach a similar top-end sound signature.  Therefore, with the Polaris you should achieve what you are looking for, with improved overall sound and configurability compared to the Magni, whilst you still have a nice tube amp with your LD, to enjoy, and for tube rolling.
> If you buy the Ember you will also have a great amplifier-but it's another tube amp and SS does have some advantages (and disadvantages) over tubes which I'm sure you have read about in the many debates in the Forums on this topic. I find it's fun to have both.




Nailed it. Thanks!


mandrake50 said:


> I think that amplifier design trumps whether it is solid state or tube based. I just read a quote by Dr. Cavalli, a respected designer who designs and produces both tube and SS amps He basically said the same thing. The Magni is decent, but probably should not be used to make any statement about how any other SS amp is going to sound. Reading about it, and from my few encounters with it, it sounds a bit thin.
> I have never found the Polaris to lack bass extension and detail. I have not heard the Little Dot, so I can't compare it to the Polaris, but I have heard the Magni on a few occasions. I would take the Polaris any day... for my tastes anyway.




This helps a lot. Thanks!


----------



## Rudiger

Me too, I had the Magni for some time. And to my ears, the Polaris has a *way *better sound !
 I can not explain it because the Magni is a pure class A and Polaris uses an Op-amp.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

rudiger said:


> Me too, I had the Magni for some time. And to my ears, the Polaris has a *way *better sound !
> I can not explain it because the Magni is a pure class A and Polaris uses an Op-amp.


 

 It's implementation that makes the difference.


----------



## Tunkejazz

rudiger said:


> Me too, I had the Magni for some time. And to my ears, the Polaris has a *way *better sound !
> I can not explain it because the Magni is a pure class A and Polaris uses an Op-amp.


 
 How do you find the Vali compared to the Polaris?


----------



## joespride

just received the polaris, paring it with my metrum octave and my he500's wonder if anyone here has suggestions for the settings to start with, initial impressions are a tad bright, I had to set gain to medium. I am coming from tubes and not sure if I will stay with polaris, it has great authority on the bass, need to tame the brightness a bit though
  
 any burn in figures  ??


----------



## HOWIE13

rudiger said:


> Me too, I had the Magni for some time. And to my ears, the Polaris has a *way *better sound !
> I can not explain it because the Magni is a pure class A and Polaris uses an Op-amp.


 
 There is no op-amp that I can see in my version of the Polaris. The Ember has op-amps, though you don't readily see them as they are on the underside of the board.


----------



## Tunkejazz

joespride said:


> just received the polaris, paring it with my metrum octave and my he500's wonder if anyone here has suggestions for the settings to start with, initial impressions are a tad bright, I had to set gain to medium. I am coming from tubes and not sure if I will stay with polaris, it has great authority on the bass, need to tame the brightness a bit though
> 
> any burn in figures  ??


 
  
 My experience with the Ember is that it takes > 25 hours for the sound to settle. Mine was a bit flat sounding in the beginning, but it changes rapidly. Just keep it in mind!
  
 With my HE400i, my Ember works fine with high gain, low or mid input resistor (depending on the tube). To my ears, with the input caps bypassed it sounds significantly better, but I am not sure that is possible with the polaris (is it?).
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Tunkejazz

I am also thinking on selling my Vali (which is now on the shelf collecting dust) and get a polaris with some extra cash


----------



## HOWIE13

joespride said:


> just received the polaris, paring it with my metrum octave and my he500's wonder if anyone here has suggestions for the settings to start with, initial impressions are a tad bright, I had to set gain to medium. I am coming from tubes and not sure if I will stay with polaris, it has great authority on the bass, need to tame the brightness a bit though
> 
> any burn in figures  ??


 
 Mine took about 48 hours playtime to settle down. You also have the high bandwidth jumpers to play with, which can tame the treble a little without dulling the sound. I also find it benefits from a few minutes warm-up when first switched on.
 I also have, like you, an NOS DAC which I often use. It's only a small Chinese one but the Polaris is still warm and sweet when combined with it, with no hint of edginess.
 I think you just need to give the Polaris more time and experiment with the settings.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

joespride said:


> just received the polaris, paring it with my metrum octave and my he500's wonder if anyone here has suggestions for the settings to start with, initial impressions are a tad bright, I had to set gain to medium. I am coming from tubes and not sure if I will stay with polaris, it has great authority on the bass, need to tame the brightness a bit though
> 
> any burn in figures  ??


 

 Overnight with an iPod Classic.
  
 With my HD650, I set at:
  
 High or low input gain, depending on where you like the volume control.
 Wide bandwidth.
 Low output impedance.


----------



## mandrake50

joespride said:


> just received the polaris, paring it with my metrum octave and my he500's wonder if anyone here has suggestions for the settings to start with, initial impressions are a tad bright, I had to set gain to medium. I am coming from tubes and not sure if I will stay with polaris, it has great authority on the bass, need to tame the brightness a bit though
> 
> any burn in figures  ??


 

 Just curious, what have you been listening to prior to the Polaris?
 What is your source and headphones.
 I am trying to understand why you would say that it is bright. I never found it to be so at all. I found it to be quite neutral to maybe a *tiny* bit warm actually!
  
 I have one of the early models. I run the FR filter off, low gain, and low output impedance.  One of the real nice things about the Polaris is that you can trim the sound in many ways using the interaction of the several settings available.. 
 As long as you have it, you may as well play with the settings a bit. Doing so may change your mind. Try the FR filter settings first... I would think, as you think it seems bright to you.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mandrake50 said:


> Just curious, what have you been listening to prior to the Polaris?
> What is your source and headphones.
> I am trying to understand why you would say that it is bright. I never found it to be so at all. I found it to be quite neutral to maybe a *tiny* bit warm actually!
> 
> ...


 

 +1  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Adjustable Ear Pleasure.


----------



## joespride

Thanks for all the responses. I am coming from this:
  
 http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/
  
 It is the Darling circuit putting out 3/4 wpc, however like the garage it has optimized iron for 32-600 ohm phones. My main reason for the Garage experiment was I constantly hear the term DRIVE when it comes to my HiFIMan HE500's I am not new to audio but fairly new to phones and so speaking with Jeremy I decided on his advice to try out the polariis
  
 It was / is immediately obvious that though the Polaris is a good amp, it offers no more in the drive department...............I am equating DRIVE to bass authority, crispness and an overall clean SQ
  
 As my current amp does not seem to suffer when compared to 2.4 wpc,in DRIVE,  and IMHO excelles in SQ pretty much everywhere I won't be making the switch today
  
 I will see if burn in makes a significant change in SQ although I will admit in my experience Burn in is typically a subtle change
  
 At the very least the wife likes it on her laptop so it is a keeper anything we can do to involve the wives is a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 as for my setup, I have 610 gigs of lossless FLAC on my external drive, music player is JRiver MC20, all files playing at 176 Via USB to my Audiophilleo AP1 with Pure Power which converts the signal to SPDIF into the Metrum Octave Mk1, which puts the signal to the Kenzie amp and finally to my modded HiFiMan HE500's (grill mod, pads sealed mod, alpha pads, and cardas clear cable)


----------



## mandrake50

Not sure what "drive" is myself. But you are comparing a $1500 amp to one with a much more modest price.  I looked up the Kenzie amp, they list 200 mW 20 Hz (-1.25db) to 16.7 kHz (-3db).
 Lots of people around here would exclaim that this level of power output is not sufficient for the Planar HE 500.  Obviously you disagree, which is a good data point, for me anyway.
  
 Now we should consider sound signature as well. Looking at the specs, the Kenzie is rolled of significantly on the top end, especially compared to the Polaris. I can see why you may think that the Polaris is somewhat bright in comparison. It is. Whether you like the high end extension or not, is of course, up to you. You can get a similar roll off (not as much I suspect) with the Polaris using the FR setting. Another thing that might be of interest is to see what the output impedance is for the Kenzie. A high output impedance will add some potential coloration to the sound. You can see if you can find the spec on the Kenzie and  maybe come close using the settings for this on the Polaris.
  
 One other thing, something I ran across on one of the threads here. When changing to a different sound signature, try listening exclusively to the new gear for a good week or more. This is to accomplish the brain burn in phenomenon. Once you have adjusted to the new signature, then do a comparison.
  
 One other thing, how loud do you listen? I have long thought that, if any amp is run within its capabilities, and that those are adequate for the application, simply adding more power will not change much... except for the sound signature . One would not notice more "drive" if the initial amp had sufficient power to begin with. Once you exceed the capabilities of a lower powered amp, that changes things. It seems that quite a few folks around here like to listen at levels that scare me... really! Maybe that is why people will tell you that you need multiple watts to drive the 500 adequately. I have found that adding power ... that is never used, for the sake of just having it, is usually counterproductive. (again, unless there is much more involved)
  
 Anyway, the Kenzie sounds like a nice amp.
  
 Glad your wife likes the Polaris, I do too! It and the UD 301 line out ended up being my "go to" setup for quite awhile when using the HE 560.


----------



## joespride

Not picking on polaris here at all It certainly proves the diminishing returns law, If I had not heard / owned my Kenzie and was looking at both anew I would likely take the Polaris for the value alone it certainly plays in a field above its cost
  
 As I age I get more and more stuck in my ways a few years ago I would have made the swap and built around the Polaris, I stumbled upon my current setup and everything seems to GEL very well and I am hesitant at best to make changes............The DRIVE thing got the better of my curiosity and with the reputation of the Garage gear I thought it worth a shot
  
 I have never felt the Kenzie lacks power, it could easily cause deafness, I listen at a comfortable 85ish db (volume knob at 11:00) with occasional bumps into the 90's (knob between 12 and 1:00) for the proper tunes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.................I am able to listen for hours without fatigue......................I feel like my only future changes may be cans
  
 I try not to let price influence my decisions between SQ of products I have had 1000.00 amps that sounded better than 5000.00 amps in the past while using oris horn speakers, Headphoness opened a whole new world when it comes to detail retrieval, my current 3000.00 rig out performs some 20,000.00 rigs I built in the past
  
 I guess to be honest about the whole thing giving it to the wife will keep it here for me to play with as well


----------



## Rudiger

tunkejazz said:


> How do you find the Vali compared to the Polaris?


 
     


  

    
 If I had to choose between the two, it would be the Polaris. But I also love the Vali, very addictive with a sort of 3D sound and omnipresent details. 
 But all depends on the headphones because the Vali lacks a bit of punch and authority for the HE-560, although I like to listen to it with the Vali from time to time.


----------



## Rudiger

howie13 said:


> There is no op-amp that I can see in my version of the Polaris. The Ember has op-amps, though you don't readily see them as they are on the underside of the board.


 
 Take a look below the amp : there is two op-amp, "opa551fa" type.


----------



## HOWIE13

Yes I see now. Thanks. Do they affect the sound in the Polaris set up? Can they be rolled as in the Starlight, I wonder?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I doubt if op amp rolling was the intent of Polaris' designer, Jeremy. You should contact him. Might be interesting dimension. The many adjustable settings on Polaris usually will suffice to tailor the SQ.


----------



## Tunkejazz

canadianmaestro said:


> I doubt if op amp rolling was the intent of Polaris' designer, Jeremy. You should contact him. Might be interesting dimension. The many adjustable settings on Polaris usually will suffice to tailor the SQ.



I think I read at some point this question asked to Franz & Jeremy and they were firmly against it.


----------



## HOWIE13

I'm sure you are both correct. I enjoy opamp rolling the Starlight but the opamps are very accessible on dip-8's. I just wonder if the sound of the Polaris is affected much by these opamps. As you suggest I will ask Jeremy. Thanks.


----------



## dpump

You can't roll any opamps on the Polaris. The ones you are referring to are soldered in place and are part of the power output circuit. ​


----------



## HOWIE13

Does that mean they have a big effect on the sound?


----------



## iancraig10

If you come on to DIY Audio Heaven, you can speak directly with Jeremy and Solderdude. (The guy who designed all of those amps)


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> If you come on to DIY Audio Heaven, you can speak directly with Jeremy and Solderdude. (The guy who designed all of those amps)


 
 That's the answer !
  
 EDIT: I now see Frans has already answered the question on DIY Audio Heaven (14/2/15).
  
  http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris?page=6
  
          Thanks again Ian.


----------



## joespride

So Polaris is growing on me, I played with some of the adjustments and it is sounding better
  
 Gain on medium, bandwidth to low, and output resistance to low, tamed some of the brightness and able to listen for much longer periods, I noticed when I did the grill mod on the He500's the top end opened up, I tried the fuzzer mod and felt it muddied the waters,so I removed it. perhaps the fuzzer mod is in order now / again
  
 Definitely a fun little amp that performs very well, one issue though once you hear and play with this one you will want to try / play with some of the others
  
 Can someone point me to the money tree


----------



## dpump

joespride said:


> So Polaris is growing on me, I played with some of the adjustments and it is sounding better
> 
> Gain on medium, bandwidth to low, and output resistance to low, tamed some of the brightness and able to listen for much longer periods, I noticed when I did the grill mod on the He500's the top end opened up, I tried the fuzzer mod and felt it muddied the waters,so I removed it. perhaps the fuzzer mod is in order now / again
> 
> ...


 

 I'm confused as to which Kenzie amp you have. In an earlier post you said it was the Kenzie amp with the Darling circuit and that it outputs 3/4 watts. Their website says that amp uses the 1626 tube and outputs 200mW, not 750mW. However, at the bottom of your posts you show the SE 84 amp, which I think uses the 6BQ5/EL84 tube and outputs 3 watts. I must be reading something wrong? Just curious.


----------



## joespride

Its the Kenzie I linked earlier, Linked below again
  
 http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/
  
 My quote about 3/4 wpc is of the darling circuit I did not realize Justin posted the different power specs in the headphone design of the Kenzie
  
 What ever the Power quotes are the thing has gobs of Drive or Volume or Control or Finesse............of course at 1500 it should 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 IMHO the Kenzie is not a real comparison for the Polaris, its just what I had and the only thing I could compare it to, when it comes to value the Polaris is a WINNER for sure and though IMHO not quite as good as Kenzie it is a great amp
  
 Like I said it is growing on me even as I type and listen to Ben Harper


----------



## camui78

I am about to purchase either the Polaris or Solstice and was wondering what most people choose for the covering... aluminum or acrylic?  I like the looks of the acrylic since you can see all the parts inside of the amp but pictures online makes it hard to see the adjustment settings compared to the aluminum chassis.  The aluminum looks very nice but is more expensive and cannot see the LED color as much as acrylic.  Also wondering if purple would be too wild for the LED color.  I know the Polaris is easily changed but Solstice cannot be.
  
 For cleaning, I have a Metro DavaVac Electric Duster (http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW) that is pretty powerful and was wondering if this would be OK to use.
  
 One last question, how well will the Modi 2 Uber pair with the Polaris?  I like the small size of the Modi which is about the same dimensions as the Polaris and the relatively cheap price.


----------



## iamxLn

i plan to get the purple, i'm torn on the chasis myself, i like the added weight of the metal one, but the plexi is pretty cool with the LED, i agree.


----------



## iancraig10

The weight does help to keep it stable and actually, it shows dust less too. I do agree though, that acrylic looks nice.

If the top had been made wider, Jeremy could have bent the edges down, so in effect, boxing (and screening a little moe) would have completely enclosed it for those bothered by phone noise.


----------



## Tunkejazz

joespride said:


> Like I said it is growing on me even as I type and listen to Ben Harper


 
 Excuse me Mr!


----------



## joespride

tunkejazz said:


> Excuse me Mr!


 





  I dont wanna be your whipping boy


----------



## CanadianMaestro

@camui78:  Acrylic looks great imo. Either way, if you plan on handling/moving it, just look where you're grasping to avoid pressing on the plastic jumpers sticking up from the top surface panel. As for the LED colors....do what you like...


----------



## iancraig10

joespride said:


> :etysmile:   I dont wanna be your whipping boy




Are we talking Frank Zappa here? Montana makes reference to 'whipping posts' .....


----------



## joespride

iancraig10 said:


> Are we talking Frank Zappa here? Montana makes reference to 'whipping posts' .....


 
 Ben Harper, Welcome to the Cruel World, Track 2 Whipping Boy, Just a retort to Mr. TunekJazz response of Excuse Me Mr. which is another song title by Ben Harper. (now we all know why I am not a comedian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 If you are an Acoustic music fan I highly recommend Ben Harper


----------



## iancraig10

Childhood Home ... Having a listen now. Thanks.


----------



## Tunkejazz

'Amen omen' is great too


----------



## iancraig10

Thanks, I'll have a listen now. iTunes streaming service does offer quite a lot of instant music.

Aha ... Found it, on the album, 'diamonds on the. Inside'.


----------



## bjamn

camui78 said:


> One last question, how well will the Modi 2 Uber pair with the Polaris?  I like the small size of the Modi which is about the same dimensions as the Polaris and the relatively cheap price.


 
  
 I use the Polaris with the Modi 2 Uber, and with great results I'd say. I was using Polaris straight from a MacBook Pro, which was actually already great, but Modi 2 Uber was perceptibly better (to my ears). Low end seemed tighter, the highs seem to have more 'authority' while being smoother too. And the presentation just seemed more holographic, or something. 
  
 My chain:  FLAC -> Audirvana -> Modi 2 Uber -> Project Polaris -> HE-400i 
  
 I'm curious what settings other HE-400i users have landed on. I'm currently using...
  
 Input Attenuation: With (I think)
 Bandwidth: High
 Gain: Low
 Output Resistance: Med
  
 Does anyone have any further thoughts on settings, with the 400i?..


----------



## Tunkejazz

bjamn said:


> I use the Polaris with the Modi 2 Uber, and with great results I'd say. I was using Polaris straight from a MacBook Pro, which was actually already great, but Modi 2 Uber was perceptibly better (to my ears). Low end seemed tighter, the highs seem to have more 'authority' while being smoother too. And the presentation just seemed more holographic, or something.
> 
> My chain:  FLAC -> Audirvana -> Modi 2 Uber -> Project Polaris -> HE-400i
> 
> ...




I have the 400i, but I use them with an Ember. I tend to change the settings depending on the tube, but I normally use high gain, low output res. 

What do you think of the subbass with the polaris and the he400i?


----------



## mandrake50

bjamn said:


> I'm curious what settings other HE-400i users have landed on. I'm currently using...
> 
> Input Attenuation: With (I think)
> Bandwidth: High
> ...


 
 I do not use attenuation, but that is due to the output level of my source.
 I use LOW output resistance for my 400i. IIRC the 400i is around 35 ohm impedance. Medium output resistance is about 35 Ohms.
 I would think that would lead to an under damped condition... yes I know they are planars, but diaphragm control (damping) is still good.
  
 Of course, if you prefer the sound using medium... it is what it is. I like low better.


----------



## camui78

I am also listening to FLAC files through Audirvana and not sure yet which amp I want to go with ATM.  The Polaris is nice since it is Solid State, around $300 with the aluminum backing (+ shipping) and no need to purchase tubes.  I am also looking at the Ember which adds about another $150+ depending on my options which definitely looks nicer.  My 3rd option is the Valhalla 2 which I read is great with the HD600 plus the tubes that comes with the amp is very good.   I am having a hard time deciding which to go with 
  
 The cheapest route is the Polaris + Modi 2 Uber and I am sure it will also be great pairing with the HD600 as your HE 400i.


----------



## camui78

bjamn said:


> I use the Polaris with the Modi 2 Uber, and with great results I'd say. I was using Polaris straight from a MacBook Pro, which was actually already great, but Modi 2 Uber was perceptibly better (to my ears). Low end seemed tighter, the highs seem to have more 'authority' while being smoother too. And the presentation just seemed more holographic, or something.
> 
> My chain:  FLAC -> Audirvana -> Modi 2 Uber -> Project Polaris -> HE-400i


 
 bjamn, can you please post a picture of your setup with the Polaris + M2U.  If I go this route, I would stack the two together to take up less space on my desk.


----------



## Tunkejazz

camui78 said:


> I am also listening to FLAC files through Audirvana and not sure yet which amp I want to go with ATM.  The Polaris is nice since it is Solid State, around $300 with the aluminum backing (+ shipping) and no need to purchase tubes.  I am also looking at the Ember which adds about another $150+ depending on my options which definitely looks nicer.  My 3rd option is the Valhalla 2 which I read is great with the HD600 plus the tubes that comes with the amp is very good.   I am having a hard time deciding which to go with
> 
> The cheapest route is the Polaris + Modi 2 Uber and I am sure it will also be great pairing with the HD600 as your HE 400i.



I have a Vali and the Ember, and I much prefer the Ember. Of course it is a more expensive amp. I think you cannot go wrong with any of those amps, but it seems that people only mention the flexibility of the garage1217 amps. And yes, they are flexible but they ALSO sound very very good!


----------



## camui78

I saw a photo on Google with the acrylic Polaris (blue LED) and was running a PeachTree DAC-iT with the HD600. Looked very nice together.

I've read the PeachTree is a better DAC than the BiFrost so I will probably go this route.

First purchase will be the Polaris in the next few days.


----------



## bjamn

camui78 said:


> bjamn, can you please post a picture of your setup with the Polaris + M2U.  If I go this route, I would stack the two together to take up less space on my desk.


 
  
 Well, there really isn't much to see as I've found the two units don't really stack. The M2U has a much smaller footprint, and you can't really put anything on top of the Polaris. Mine just sit side by side. (Or actually amp in front dac in the back.)
  
 It seems like I've seen some small stacking shelves somewhere in a Head-Fi thread, but I can't seem to find it! And I've been unable to find anything searching the web. I'd love a small 'component' shelf system that fits these units, but I've had not luck so far.
  
 Does anyone know of anything that fits the Polaris?


----------



## bjamn

tunkejazz said:


> What do you think of the subbass with the polaris and the he400i?


 
  
 Honestly, when I first got the 400i I wanted it to be 'bassier'. But now I've really come around to what they do (esp. with the Polaris). I find the bass to be complete and decently textured. I wouldn't say the subbass is slamming, but confidently present when called upon. When using the Polaris the bass reminds me of hearing an actual electric bass amp in a studio or jam room environment. It seems to tickle the sub end enough to feel big and natural (to me). I do EQ the bass up a few db's on occasion, and the Polaris/400i combination doesn't seem to mind a bit. 
  
 Now if I could only widen the soundstage...


----------



## mowgli-kun

bjamn said:


> And I've been unable to find anything searching the web. I'd love a small 'component' shelf system that fits these units, but I've had not luck so far.
> 
> Does anyone know of anything that fits the Polaris?



 


Been looking for something as well, and so far I've found Woodwarmth on etsy (https://www.etsy.com/listing/225959556/woodwarmth-headphone-dacamp-stand?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=amp%20dac%20headphone%20stand&ref=sr_gallery_1). Judging by the description, they can also make your "shelf" custom-sized to your setup.


----------



## camui78

Just purchased the Polaris in acrylic with blue LED. Jeremy said I should get it by next Tuesday. Can't wait to upgrade from my JDS Labs O2!!


----------



## Tunkejazz

> Honestly, when I first got the 400i I wanted it to be 'bassier'. But now I've really come around to what they do (esp. with the Polaris). I find the bass to be complete and decently textured. I wouldn't say the subbass is slamming, but confidently present when called upon. When using the Polaris the bass reminds me of hearing an actual electric bass amp in a studio or jam room environment. It seems to tickle the sub end enough to feel big and natural (to me). I do EQ the bass up a few db's on occasion, and the Polaris/400i combination doesn't seem to mind a bit.
> 
> Now if I could only widen the soundstage...


 
 Yeah, that is the reason why I asked. My Ember makes the HE400i rumble nicely, but everyone seems to complain about the sub-bass. The soundstage seems expand a bit when I use some tubes, but it is not a huge improvement, and certainly not an option for the Polaris. I have also been thinking on jumping (eventually, not now) on trying to source pre-owned LCD-2, but I would like to audition them first.


----------



## Tunkejazz

camui78 said:


> Just purchased the Polaris in acrylic with blue LED. Jeremy said I should get it by next Tuesday. Can't wait to upgrade from my JDS Labs O2!!


 
 I would recommend you to let it break in properly before you drag any conclusions. I was too eager to test mine and in the beginning the sound signature changed dramatically including somewhat dull and harsh sounding stages (relatively speaking). It finally settled with a very pleasant sound that I have never found in any other amp, but it took a while (+40 hours)! My two cents, I hope you enjoy the amp!


----------



## camui78

Thanks Tunkejazz. Looks like the next 4 days will be the break in period after u get it.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Frankly, don't leave it on 24/7 for 4 days.


----------



## camui78

canadianmaestro said:


> Frankly, don't leave it on 24/7 for 4 days.


 
 I'm not... 10 hours per day is what I usually do for burn-in


----------



## iancraig10

I don't bother. Just use it.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

Anything wrong with leaving it on all the time?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

riddleywalker said:


> Anything wrong with leaving it on all the time?


 

 Try it and you'll find out.


----------



## iancraig10

riddleywalker said:


> Anything wrong with leaving it on all the time?




Is there any point in leaving it on all of the time?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I prefer the Darwinian route, rather than the Socratic one.


----------



## Tunkejazz

BtW, I just suggested "wait until it burns in to draw your conclusions" but of course I never meant "don't listen to it until it breaks in"!


----------



## iancraig10

Or perhaps wait until it burns out? 

Just kidding.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

canadianmaestro said:


> Try it and you'll find out.


 
 Thanks, I'll give it a try and report back with my impressions.
  
  


iancraig10 said:


> Is there any point in leaving it on all of the time?


 
 Keeps me from having to switch it off/on every time I listen to it.  If there aren't any detrimental effects from leaving it on, it would simply be more convenient.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I leave my DAC on all the time. But not amps. Even with SS.
 Especially power- and pre-amps. Some HP amps too, like BHA-1.


----------



## iancraig10

riddleywalker said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a try and report back with my impressions.
> 
> 
> Keeps me from having to switch it off/on every time I listen to it.  If there aren't any detrimental effects from leaving it on, it would simply be more convenient.




I know that in the bad old days ... The 70s, people were encouraged by hi fi mags to keep amps switched on so that they were at their 'peak', but I never noticed anything except transformers getting hot.

There was also the theory that electronics might be more prone to break down on 'switch on'.

For me, it depends what I'm doing. If I'm going to be using it a lot, then I leave on but if it's going to be left for a couple of days, it goes off.

I imagine in hot countries, it might get a bit warm and heat isn't really good for any electronics.

I was trying to find out whether you are somewhere hot or whether you think the sound is better because it's warmed up or something.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Anyhow...doesn't it take like 10-15 min to warm up an amp? (assumimg that there is a change in the sound while warming up)


----------



## iancraig10

Well, that is it ..... Is there a change of sound in an ss amp? Also, does any change warrant leaving them permanently on and basically using them as heaters?


----------



## mandrake50

riddleywalker said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a try and report back with my impressions.
> 
> 
> Keeps me from having to switch it off/on every time I listen to it.  If there aren't any detrimental effects from leaving it on, it would simply be more convenient.


 

 It does have a switch. As long as it is accessible, turning it off should not be much of an inconvenience. I turn mine off when I am not using it. It really does not get very warm in use and I have not yet noticed differences in the sound from immediately using it to a few hours later.  Completely up to you, but for the maximum longevity, I tend to think  turning it off is better.


----------



## camui78

All set now... just purchased the Modi 2 Uber to go with my Project Polaris and HD600.  Will be a definite improvement over my ATH-AD700 + O2 amp


----------



## dpump

camui78 said:


> All set now... just purchased the Modi 2 Uber to go with my Project Polaris and HD600.  Will be a definite improvement over my ATH-AD700 + O2 amp


 
 Never heard the O2, used to have the AD700 and Polaris.. Have the Modi2 Uber and have been very pleased with the sound quality. The AD-700 is pretty good-a little light on the bass and a little brighter than I like, but a tube amp would probably help. I'm sure the HD600 will be great with this combo.​


----------



## HOWIE13

camui78 said:


> All set now... just purchased the Modi 2 Uber to go with my Project Polaris and HD600.  Will be a definite improvement over my ATH-AD700 + O2 amp


 
 I have an o2 amp and Polaris so will be very interested in your comparisons, too.
 I always switch everything off when I finish listening-but I don't switch off at the mains plug/socket, though I gather it's better for the Planet if we do.


----------



## rosenjazz

Hey guys, new to Head-Fi! I'm about to take the plunge in buying a Polaris, but I have one main question. Does Garage 1217 have a return policy for their products? I would be buying the preassembled version and not the DIY kit. I tried contacting Jeremy via the online form but he hasn't responded yet probably because it's the weekend so I'm curious if any of you guys know.


----------



## Amish

Jeremy is a very cool dude. Ask him if you can demo before buying. You will pay the full amount for the amp but if not satisfied you can return it and just pay shipping. Doing it this way gives you the ability to test it and return it. This is not a option he markets I do not think but if I'm not mistaken he will do it.
  
 Once you listen to this amp I think you will have no problem keeping it.
  
 He is actually awesome at getting back to people. Just give him some time as he might be busy.


----------



## rosenjazz

> Jeremy is a very cool dude. Ask him if you can demo before buying. You will pay the full amount for the amp but if not satisfied you can return it and just pay shipping. Doing it this way gives you the ability to test it and return it. This is not a option he markets I do not think but if I'm not mistaken he will do it.
> 
> Once you listen to this amp I think you will have no problem keeping it.
> 
> He is actually awesome at getting back to people. Just give him some time as he might be busy.


 
  
 That works! I will ask him once he gets back to me.


----------



## kehorton

I just got the Polaris (to power HE-500's I also just picked up), and I'm just super-happy with this decision. I don't have a rich assortment of amps to compare against (just my Schiit Magni and a friend's O2). The amount of detail retrieval that just moving from the Shiit to this amp - I couldn't believe the change. I fully expected that with these headphones (which were completely new to me), that I would need to spend time A/B'ing the 2 amps to hear what, if anything, the Polaris would bring to bear.
 ​
 Boy was I wrong.  I was immediate awe-struck. Female voices just sounded "right": they had a better tonal balance; they now had air around them which really gave them life; I could actually make out lyrics that I never understood before (I *really* didn't believe that when I first experienced it - I had to relisten to some tracks again to realize that I was actually finally hearing what she was saying).

 Instrument separation was much stronger. For the first time since my 20s (when I was hanging out in high-end audio shops), I actually stopped "actively listening": meaning I sat back, closed my eyes, and could just *hear* the entire musical presentation. All my experiences before this with headphones required me to focus on listening to different parts in the music - be it the layers of additional vocal tracks, or tracking all of what the drummer (Tool's drummer can be hard to follow on other setups), or all the small additional instruments added for color and texture.  For the next few hours, I just re-listened to those tracks which had been played endlessly and didn't have to 'work': all that detail was made so completely evident.

 I'll stop now as I don't want this to come across too strongly. I can only assume there are amps which can take detail, sound stage, separation, etc. even further. But for the price paid, holy cow. What an amazing amp.
  
 I only have ~12 hours on it. I'll need to spend a lot more, get "acclimated" to it, then go back and try the Magni and O2 again, just to see what differences I hear there.
  
  
 BTW, Jeremy was awesome. Exactly what I would want for a salesman of any product. He knows his stuff, answered all my questions, obviously thought highly of his product but wasn't pushy and never seemed to be over-selling. He had some great recommendations for tubes for my DAC. He actually swayed me away from the Ember since the DAC already has a tube, and trying to match & align the DAC tube with the Ember tubes could be "difficult".


 * full disclaimer: I'm going from JRiver -> USB/SPDIF converter -> Cal Audio Sigma II DAC (yes, that old one) -> Polaris -> HE-500s.  The Cal Audio DAC has a tube output stage.


----------



## iancraig10

Exactly.... For the price paid, what an amazing amp.

Jeremy is a really nice guy and sells the amps at such a competitive price, that the profit margins for him really aren't that much. He's more an enthusiast really!


----------



## Tunkejazz

HOWIE13 in a few lines, can you compare the sound of the Franken-Ember with the polaris? We got another baby last week and I won't be using my stereo for a while at home, so I am thinking on having a second system there. My Ember is permanently in my office  

I could buy another Ember for home but the Polaris is also a very appealing alternative, also slightly cheaper!


----------



## iancraig10

Polaris is also less noisy with no tube and a better range of gains available.


----------



## Tunkejazz

iancraig10 said:


> Polaris is also less noisy with no tube and a better range of gains available.



Yes, that also! I think I have found a system that works great with my headphones and with my taste  

I have to say that my (shamessly) expensive stereo system never gave me so much joy as the Ember+he400i. I am thinking on selling it and just have something cheaper and less intrusive to watch movies in the future.


----------



## iancraig10

I love it's low profile as well. Possible to have a good quality of sound in such a small package.


----------



## HOWIE13

tunkejazz said:


> @HOWIE13 in a few lines, can you compare the sound of the Franken-Ember with the polaris? We got another baby last week and I won't be using my stereo for a while at home, so I am thinking on having a second system there. My Ember is permanently in my office
> 
> I could buy another Ember for home but the Polaris is also a very appealing alternative, also slightly cheaper!


 
 Congrats on the new baby. Will try that comparison when I return from holiday in Spain next week.


----------



## Tunkejazz

howie13 said:


> Congrats on the new baby. Will try that comparison when I return from holiday in Spain next week.



Thanks! Enjoy your vacation!


----------



## camui78

Just opened my brand spankin' new Polaris.  It is a beautiful amp with the blue LED in acrylic.  Listening to it ATM and it sounds good. Cannot wait until this puppy fully breaks in


----------



## CanadianMaestro

camui78 said:


> Just opened my brand spankin' new Polaris.  It is a beautiful amp with the blue LED in acrylic.  Listening to it ATM and it sounds good. Cannot wait until this puppy fully breaks in


 

 For the price, it's a thrill and a bargain. Nicely built, and the sound......


----------



## HOWIE13

tunkejazz said:


> @HOWIE13 in a few lines, can you compare the sound of the Franken-Ember with the polaris? We got another baby last week and I won't be using my stereo for a while at home, so I am thinking on having a second system there. My Ember is permanently in my office
> 
> I could buy another Ember for home but the Polaris is also a very appealing alternative, also slightly cheaper!


 
 OK, so I listen to mainly Classical and some Jazz, with Senns 600/650, HE400 and AKG 612/701/712. Files are FLAC from X3, or CD, both to a Bushmaster 2. P set on high bandwidth, max input signal, high output gain and low output impedance with all cans. FE used KR 7193's, max input signal and low output impedance, as with P.
 The Sound-stage of the Polaris sounds slightly wider than FE. FE has slight emphasis, in my system, in the upper-mids and P is neutral, giving FE the perception of greater clarity in the upper registers and P more overall warmth and sweetness. P has a marginally tighter, deeper bass, especially evident with the Senns and HE400 on some recordings.
 For me personally, my initial impression is the FE will suit vocal solos and smaller scale instrumental music, with it's quite punchy and dynamic, close embracing energy and P will suit spacious and more complex music, particularly where a more balanced and richer sound is required.
 By fine tuning and tube rolling, these two amps can actually be tweaked to sound very similar to each other, as when I substituted RCA's for the K-R's and changed the P bandwidth to its mid setting.
 This is all very subjective, of course- both are excellent amps and your choice may well come down to price and whether you want another tube-rolling amp or a Solid State with a lot of configuration options, and silent background.
 Hope you are managing to get some sleep!


----------



## rosenjazz

I need to give a shoutout to Jeremy and his amazing customer service. I received my Polaris yesterday and plugged in my headphones only to discover a buzzing in the left channel and general noisiness whenever I tried to change volume. I panicked and sent him an email saying that I thought I got a defective unit and asking what to do. Suddenly I realized my DAC wasn't even plugged in - I did that and the buzzing of course went away because it was most likely a ground loop/antenna pickup. Not minutes after sending a followup email to tell him that I was an idiot and the unit was totally OK, he responded saying thank goodness because he was just firing up his PC to diagnose the problem. On a Friday night no less. After that he even suggested a few tips for getting the best performance out of the Polaris with my particular setup. Props to Jeremy and Garage1217 for their amazing professionalism and superb customer service. I'm currently rocking out with an Apogee Duet 2 > Polaris > Hifiman HE-500 and it sounds amazing!


----------



## ericr

+1

Garage1217 has given me exemplary support & service!


----------



## HOWIE13

Me too- Jeremy even responded to queries I had on Christmas Day and New Year's day.


----------



## Tunkejazz

howie13 said:


> OK, so I listen to mainly Classical and some Jazz, with Senns 600/650, HE400 and AKG 612/701/712. Files are FLAC from X3, or CD, both to a Bushmaster 2. P set on high bandwidth, max input signal, high output gain and low output impedance with all cans. FE used KR 7193's, max input signal and low output impedance, as with P.
> The Sound-stage of the Polaris sounds slightly wider than FE. FE has slight emphasis, in my system, in the upper-mids and P is neutral, giving FE the perception of greater clarity in the upper registers and P more overall warmth and sweetness. P has a marginally tighter, deeper bass, especially evident with the Senns and HE400 on some recordings.
> For me personally, my initial impression is the FE will suit vocal solos and smaller scale instrumental music, with it's quite punchy and dynamic, close embracing energy and P will suit spacious and more complex music, particularly where a more balanced and richer sound is required.
> By fine tuning and tube rolling, these two amps can actually be tweaked to sound very similar to each other, as when I substituted RCA's for the K-R's and changed the P bandwidth to its mid setting.
> ...



Thanks! Very accurate wording! Now I just have to stop reading and make up my mind. BTW, if anyone is thinking on selling a Polaris in Europe, PM me, otherwise I will contact Jeremy soon! Last time I paid Swedish-grade import taxes with my Ember  

Sleep...well it has been better than with the first baby so far 

But I am getting more and more in the need to get the amp because I cannot use my normal stereo system!


----------



## Aplle

rosenjazz said:


> After that he even suggested a few tips for getting the best performance out of the Polaris with my particular setup.


 
 Would you mind sharing what he had to say on that subject?


----------



## HOWIE13

tunkejazz said:


> Thanks! Very accurate wording! Now I just have to stop reading and make up my mind. BTW, if anyone is thinking on selling a Polaris in Europe, PM me, otherwise I will contact Jeremy soon! Last time I paid Swedish-grade import taxes with my Ember
> 
> Sleep...well it has been better than with the first baby so far
> 
> But I am getting more and more in the need to get the amp because I cannot use my normal stereo system!


 
 These import duties really are a bummer.
 Jeremy was advertising some kit at reduced price a short while ago-but I don't remember what.
 The other amp to consider, if you are still considering a tube amp, might be a Solstice-you can use the cheaper 12SN7's with it.
 Our second was fine for 6 weeks-then all hell broke out-and it hasn't stopped after 25 years!


----------



## rosenjazz

> Would you mind sharing what he had to say on that subject?


 
 Sure! He said the main goal with the Polaris is to get to a comfortable listening level on your headphones with the volume knob at around the 11 o'clock position. Given the HE-500's power needs he recommended the Low Output Resistance configuration and to go no higher than medium resistance. Since my Apogee Duet 2 has a pretty decent output level, he confirmed that setting the preamp at -20 dB was a good bet with the Medium Gain and No Attenuation options on the Polaris, and to experiment with values around -14 dB with Low Gain on and -10 to -12 dB with Low Gain and Input Attenuation on. I have Bandwidth on High since the HE-500 is pretty friendly with treble response and so far that's what has been sounding good to me.


----------



## CookiePrime

Is anyone using a portable set-up with this amp?
  
 Private computers are forbidden in my office for security reasons...
  
 So I was wondering if I could pair my Ipod Nano to Polaris with a 3.5 mm stereo -> RCA audio cable.
  
 Or is this so called 'double amping' not recommended?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

cookieprime said:


> Is anyone using a portable set-up with this amp?
> 
> Private computers are forbidden in my office for security reasons...
> 
> ...


 
 Don't see why not. Feeding the computer's sound card analog out to Polaris would be the same thing, essentially.
 Unless you have a separate DAC in between, and feed the digital out from iPod's slot (not HP jack) to the DAC.


----------



## Tunkejazz

cookieprime said:


> Is anyone using a portable set-up with this amp?
> 
> Private computers are forbidden in my office for security reasons...
> 
> ...



I have used my Sony xperia x3 compact (USB port) -> Ifi nano idsd -> Ember. 

The ifi nano runs on its internal battery and it has a RCA output, so you are not byamping. The dac is actually quite ok.


----------



## CookiePrime

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## SoAmusing777

Time to sell my Polaris.


----------



## Tunkejazz

soamusing777 said:


> Time to sell my Polaris.



How much are you asking for it? Where are you located?


----------



## Rudiger

soamusing777 said:


> Time to sell my Polaris.


 

```
[left] By which amp will you replace it?[/left]
```


----------



## Tunkejazz

Never mind, I just saw the post in the sales section...given that I am based in Europe I am not sure I see the advantage of paying 215 USD over 249 of a new unit. Good luck!


----------



## thejammonster

Hey all!  I want to make sure that I understand exactly what I would be getting from the Project Polaris before I order it.  I finally found what I needed in a headphone with the Fostex TH600 - a LOT of bass while still maintaining great clarity and comfort.  Most headphones I've tried either didn't have enough bass but had good clarity, or had plenty of bass that muddied the rest of the sound.  The only complaint I have with the TH600 is that they are somewhat bright.  I would really like to tune the sound of these headphones without EQ (source dependent) instead of returning them and continuing my search.  The tuning options of the Polaris are attractive to me but I want to make sure I understand them.
  
 1. Does the 'Aggressive' bandwidth option lessen the treble more than the 'Mellow' option?  Their names could be interpreted the other way around but from reading this thread, it sounds like Aggressive would be my preference to smooth some of the harshness.  The high setting looks to be the same between the two while the Aggressive medium setting looks to be equal to the Mellow low setting, and the Aggressive low setting is the lowest possible.
  
 2. Does the selectable output resistance have any effect on anything besides volume?  The way I understand it is that less output resistance = more output wattage which translates into more volume.  Assuming equal volume, does more (or less) power change anything?  Every amp I have seen before aims for the lowest possible output resistance so I'm not sure what the need to increase it would be.
  
 Separately, does anyone have a good DAC pairing recommendation for (hopefully) less than the cost of the Polaris?  I was thinking the Schiit Modi 2 or JDS Labs ODAC standalone as options.


----------



## SoAmusing777

tunkejazz said:


> Never mind, I just saw the post in the sales section...given that I am based in Europe I am not sure I see the advantage of paying 215 USD over 249 of a new unit. Good luck!


 
 It costs $15 to ship it, so you'd pay $265 at least to get it new. I feel $215 is fair, at least stateside.


----------



## Tunkejazz

thejammonster said:


> Hey all!  I want to make sure that I understand exactly what I would be getting from the Project Polaris before I order it.  I finally found what I needed in a headphone with the Fostex TH600 - a LOT of bass while still maintaining great clarity and comfort.  Most headphones I've tried either didn't have enough bass but had good clarity, or had plenty of bass that muddied the rest of the sound.  The only complaint I have with the TH600 is that they are somewhat bright.  I would really like to tune the sound of these headphones without EQ (source dependent) instead of returning them and continuing my search.  The tuning options of the Polaris are attractive to me but I want to make sure I understand them.
> 
> 1. Does the 'Aggressive' bandwidth option lessen the treble more than the 'Mellow' option?  Their names could be interpreted the other way around but from reading this thread, it sounds like Aggressive would be my preference to smooth some of the harshness.  The high setting looks to be the same between the two while the Aggressive medium setting looks to be equal to the Mellow low setting, and the Aggressive low setting is the lowest possible.
> 
> ...




The filtering is done in the upper treeble and it will roll it off, but it should still be audible. If your headphones have a peak in the upper mids (~10kHz) it will remain unaffected. But the Garage 1217 amps are not bright, so this is probably as good as you can go. I have the Ember and I am in love with it.

The output impedance affects both the volume and the sound signature. Higher impedance usually rolls a bit the treeble and can emphasize the bass, but the effect depends a lot on the headphones.

As for the dac...the Odac or the Modi will do as fine. I prefer the specs of the modi as it is Async, but whether you will hear the supposedly lower jitter from this USB implementation remains to be proven. I am using an Ifi nano iDSD with very good results. The dac in the Ifi Nano is quite natural sounding, not as analytical as the Odac. The dac should influence the sound less than changing amp.

Good luck!


----------



## HOWIE13

thejammonster said:


> Hey all!  I want to make sure that I understand exactly what I would be getting from the Project Polaris before I order it.  I finally found what I needed in a headphone with the Fostex TH600 - a LOT of bass while still maintaining great clarity and comfort.  Most headphones I've tried either didn't have enough bass but had good clarity, or had plenty of bass that muddied the rest of the sound.  The only complaint I have with the TH600 is that they are somewhat bright.  I would really like to tune the sound of these headphones without EQ (source dependent) instead of returning them and continuing my search.  The tuning options of the Polaris are attractive to me but I want to make sure I understand them.
> 
> 1. Does the 'Aggressive' bandwidth option lessen the treble more than the 'Mellow' option?  Their names could be interpreted the other way around but from reading this thread, it sounds like Aggressive would be my preference to smooth some of the harshness.  The high setting looks to be the same between the two while the Aggressive medium setting looks to be equal to the Mellow low setting, and the Aggressive low setting is the lowest possible.
> 
> ...


 
 Your understanding of 'aggressive' vs 'mellow' is correct. 'Aggressive' cuts a bit more treble-but it's subtle, just enough to tame
  over-brightly remastered strings in old recordings. I almost always find the High setting is perfect for my ears and , as you point out, 'High' is the same for both models.


----------



## thejammonster

tunkejazz said:


> The filtering is done in the upper treeble and it will roll it off, but it should still be audible. If your headphones have a peak in the upper mids (~10kHz) it will remain unaffected. But the Garage 1217 amps are not bright, so this is probably as good as you can go. I have the Ember and I am in love with it.
> 
> The output impedance affects both the volume and the sound signature. Higher impedance usually rolls a bit the treeble and can emphasize the bass, but the effect depends a lot on the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


howie13 said:


> Your understanding of 'aggressive' vs 'mellow' is correct. 'Aggressive' cuts a bit more treble-but it's subtle, just enough to tame
> over-brightly remastered strings in old recordings. I almost always find the High setting is perfect for my ears and , as you point out, 'High' is the same for both models.


 
  
 Thanks for the help!  The iFi Nano iDSD is intriguing if only to have everything in one package.


----------



## Tunkejazz

thejammonster said:


> Thanks for the help!  The iFi Nano iDSD is intriguing if only to have everything in one package.



In my case it was a matter of availability... In Europe the Modi2 is significantly more expensive than in the US, but I got a bargain with my Nano in a local store. It is also great for trips because it is compatible with most phones


----------



## RiddleyWalker

So I've been playing with the settings on the Polaris.  Using the ZMF Blackwood and HE-500. 
  
 For a while I stuck with:  Low-R, Med Gain, High BW, WO-A
  
 After a lot of going back and forth, I've found the following the actually work quite well:  Low-R, High Gain, High BW, W-A
  
 While the sound loses a bit of air/detail, I find it fleshed out the sound a bit, smoothed out the highs slightly.  The sound is less agressive, but more cohesive.
  
 I'm partial to a darker/lusher sound, so this config might not work for all, but I recommend it to anybody interested in a smoother sound on their current rig.
  
 What other settings have worked well for other Polaris owners?
  
 Every time I consider an amp "upgrade" I'm reminded of how flexible the config on the Polaris is.  The option of fine-tuning some of the sound when using different headphones is awesome.
  
 Mad props to G1217.


----------



## vapman

Hey all, just placed my order last night for a Project Polaris. I'm super excited 
 There's a lot of jumpers on it and I'm excited to play with them! Working my way through the thread.
 For reference I ordered the mellow bandwidth version. The aggressive looked a bit steep to me. I am sensitive to treble so maybe I should have gotten the aggressive but I am used to using considerably bright gear despite being treble sensitive. Either way, can't wait to get it, and will be very excited to see how it works as a stereo preamp between my DAC and power amp!
  
 Anyone here using theirs primarily with IEMs?
  
 Going to pair the Project Polaris with a E-MU 0404 DAC which has identical D/A converter to the Modi 2


----------



## Luckbad

Polaris works great with IEMs. Make sure you have an adapter to use the 1/4" output!


----------



## vapman

I have more adapters than I know what to do with. I wish someone made a mini to 1/4 like the Grado one that wasn't stupidly expensive. My next-best solution is one of the straight-in adapters hooked up to a nice quality extension cable. Are there any nice ones that are reasonably priced?
  
 I was ready to buy a Schiit or G1217 tube amp, but then thought about both my pets and how not uncommon it is for me to leave things turned on overnight, and thought maybe I better have a nice SS before I got a similar tube amp. It'll be soon enough though...


----------



## vapman

Ordered Thursday night late, shipped Saturday morning.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I got mine this week, after borrowing/testing one from Frans (one of the designers of the G1217 amps). It took me a while to find the right settings for my D2000, but I finally hit the right combination two nights ago. The Polaris is one of the only amps that has finally allowed me to enjoy these headphones that can have too much bite around 8-10 kHz. Loving it!
  
 It also sounds terrific with the HE400i with pretty much any settings...but these are permanently connected to my Ember in the office


----------



## vapman

Woohoo, it was waiting for me when I got home from work! I hooked it up to my E-MU 0404 immediately and threw in my PortaPros since I couldn't even wait to unpack my XB90EX. Will try it with those soon but all I have to say is I've never heard stock PortaPros sound so good. I love this amp already and I haven't even been using it for 5 minutes... Very well done G1217!!!
  
 Can't wait to try the XB90EX, no doubts I'll be blown away. My setup is foobar with ReaEQ into a EMU 0404 into the Polaris 
  
 (Okay, it's pretty damn amazing with the XB90EX. All this bass rules! It's surely not like a real basshead amp with hardware bass boost, but ReaEQ is a pretty damn good parametric EQ, and I have the sub bass turned up +13.0, yes it's amazing with comply tips to keep them in my head)


----------



## senorx12562

Currently have an ifi micro ican and a vali, and upgraditis has set in, considering selling the ican, and replacing it with either the polaris or asgard2. My phones are he500s, lcd2s, hd600s, dt880s-250ohm, k553s. Clearly the polaris is considerably more powerful and adjustable than the asgard, but the asgard is pure class a, with all discrete output stage (no opamps) all of which are commonly considered good things. Actually, the ican is class a as well. Any thoughts, commentary, recommendations, etc?


----------



## Tunkejazz

senorx12562 said:


> Currently have an ifi micro ican and a vali, and upgraditis has set in, considering selling the ican, and replacing it with either the polaris or asgard2. My phones are he500s, lcd2s, hd600s, dt880s-250ohm, k553s. Clearly the polaris is considerably more powerful and adjustable than the asgard, but the asgard is pure class a, with all discrete output stage (no opamps) all of which are commonly considered good things. Actually, the ican is class a as well. Any thoughts, commentary, recommendations, etc?




I had exactly the same dilemma: Polaris vs Asgard2 vs Ember. I went for the Ember out of curiosity and I love it, great bang for the buck. I needed a second system for home and ordered the Polaris. Don't mind all those technical details, the Polaris sounds terrific. I had a Vali too and both the Ember and the Polaris are much better. 

I cannot comment on the Asgard, my experience with the Vali: very good sound but it tends to have slightly over processed treeble and less solidity in the bass than the Garage 1217 amps.


----------



## HOWIE13

tunkejazz said:


> I had exactly the same dilemma: Polaris vs Asgard2 vs Ember. I went for the Ember out of curiosity and I love it, great bang for the buck. I needed a second system for home and ordered the Polaris. Don't mind all those technical details, the Polaris sounds terrific. I had a Vali too and both the Ember and the Polaris are much better.
> 
> I cannot comment on the Asgard, my experience with the Vali: very good sound but it tends to have slightly over processed treeble and less solidity in the bass than the Garage 1217 amps.


 
  Horizon is Class A with plenty power for those higher impedance cans.


----------



## senorx12562

tunkejazz said:


> I had exactly the same dilemma: Polaris vs Asgard2 vs Ember. I went for the Ember out of curiosity and I love it, great bang for the buck. I needed a second system for home and ordered the Polaris. Don't mind all those technical details, the Polaris sounds terrific. I had a Vali too and both the Ember and the Polaris are much better.
> 
> I cannot comment on the Asgard, my experience with the Vali: very good sound but it tends to have slightly over processed treeble and less solidity in the bass than the Garage 1217 amps.




Thanks Tunkejazz. The Ember is out for me, as i don't want a tube amp. I've looked for a comparison of the A2 and the Polaris, but have found nothing.


----------



## vapman

Has anyone changed their power LED on theirs? I want to change the color of mine - I see it's 3mm but not sure what else to look for when LED shopping.
  
@senorx12562 I was also wondering about the A2 vs the Polaris before I ordered mine, never found a direct comparison of the two but all I can tell you is I really don't regret getting my Polaris one bit and all I can say is the A2 sure has its work cut out for it. I've heard a lot of preamps up to the $7,000 range (Krell Phantom III being the most expensive I have experience with) and I really think this one is something special.
  
 Also it takes most companies longer to pack up and ship an already assembled, in the box item, than it does for G1217 to build and ship you your order.


----------



## HOWIE13

vapman said:


> Has anyone changed their power LED on theirs? I want to change the color of mine - I see it's 3mm but not sure what else to look for when LED shopping.
> 
> @senorx12562 I was also wondering about the A2 vs the Polaris before I ordered mine, never found a direct comparison of the two but all I can tell you is I really don't regret getting my Polaris one bit and all I can say is the A2 sure has its work cut out for it. I've heard a lot of preamps up to the $7,000 range (Krell Phantom III being the most expensive I have experience with) and I really think this one is something special.
> 
> Also it takes most companies longer to pack up and ship an already assembled, in the box item, than it does for G1217 to build and ship you your order.


 
 Jeremy should be able to supply another LED colour.


----------



## senorx12562

vapman said:


> Has anyone changed their power LED on theirs? I want to change the color of mine - I see it's 3mm but not sure what else to look for when LED shopping.
> 
> @senorx12562
> I was also wondering about the A2 vs the Polaris before I ordered mine, never found a direct comparison of the two but all I can tell you is I really don't regret getting my Polaris one bit and all I can say is the A2 sure has its work cut out for it. I've heard a lot of preamps up to the $7,000 range (Krell Phantom III being the most expensive I have experience with) and I really think this one is something special.
> ...




Thanks Mckickflip. I'm not so worried about time. Schiit is very good about order fulfillment, and Jeremy tells me he just finisned a build of the polaris. I only care about sound quality, especially as they both even have a 5 year warranty.


----------



## vapman

@senorx12562 I would still very much like to hear the Schiit offerings at some point but I can very honestly tell you that I love the Project Polaris so much, I can't imagine not owning at least one G1217 amp now. I love it so much I want to get a G1217 tube amp to see what kind of magic they pull off with tubes.
  
 I've yet to hear a Schiit amp and eagerly await the opportunity to try one, but I've heard so many headphone amps & preamps in my life and since my time joining here and going to meets, and all I can say is the fact they charge under 300 built for a new Project Polaris is unfathomable. I wrote an email to Jeremy the day I got it telling him the honest truth - I had never been so impressed with an amp in the very first minute of using it. I have_ never _heard a solid state that sounds like this.
  
 I got my Polaris with the mellow bandwidth option. I haven't even played with all the options for changing the sound yet, I have only used 2 of the 3 available output resistances and have found the middle bandwidth setting to be my favorite. I'm glad I chose the mellow bandwidth option, medium bandwidth is absolutely perfect for me - I have sensitive ears to treble but hate muddy highs. a very difficult balance to maintain.
  
  
  
  
@HOWIE13 - I would ask Jeremy (i probably will anyway) but I was toying with the idea of replacing the LED with one of those 7 color rainbow ones that changes color by itself.


----------



## Aradea

Guys if want to use this for playing FLACs from my laptop, it seems that I have to buy a separate DAC with USB input right?


----------



## Aplle

No. A separate dac would be an option, but you can use your lappy as a source. You would just need an adapter or a 3.5mm to RCA cable.


----------



## Aradea

aplle said:


> No. A separate dac would be an option, but you can use your lappy as a source. You would just need an adapter or a 3.5mm to RCA cable.




Nice to hear this. Any recommended 3.5mm to RCA adapter? So many cheap stuff these days


----------



## Rudiger

This will do a double amplification, not good for the sound. A dac like the modi 2 would be by far a better solution.


----------



## vapman

Anything with line out is going to be a big step up from your laptop's out.
 There are a lot of different DACs that use the same D/A as the Modi 2. I have a 10 year old USB AD/DA that has the same D/A chip.


----------



## mowgli-kun

Does anyone have a Polaris with the aluminium chassis AND the stock black volume knob? If so, could you post a picture of it please? Can't find a picture of this configuration anywhere; not even on the Garage1217 website.


----------



## vapman

mowgli-kun said:


> Does anyone have a Polaris with the aluminium chassis AND the stock black volume knob? If so, could you post a picture of it please? Can't find a picture of this configuration anywhere; not even on the Garage1217 website.


 

 Email em for a pic. They're very helpful.
 I have the acrylic not only because it was cheaper but I thought it looked better. I also have the silver knob, so can't help there :/


----------



## senorx12562




----------



## vapman




----------



## disastermouse

What kind of changes can I expect if I move from my current Magni (original, not 2 or 2 Uber) to the Project Polaris? Also, the bandwidth adjustment is an option for checkout and I don't know what that means or if it's adjustable on the fly or if it's a permanent setting. 
  
 I'm running HiFiMan HE-500 (most of my listening) and HD650 (when I absolutely need the added comfort). My DAC is a MusicStreamer ii+.


----------



## iancraig10

The bandwidth alters how you hear the top end and bottom end extremes. So if you have high bandwidth, you hear everything, but lowering it smooths the top and bottom out. It's there in case you have a harsh or toppy sounding headphone. I rarely use it TBH.

It is adjustable on the fly just by moving a couple of links that are really easily got at.


----------



## lvince95

iancraig10 said:


> The bandwidth alters how you hear the top end and bottom end extremes. So if you have high bandwidth, you hear everything, but lowering it smooths the top and bottom out. It's there in case you have a harsh or toppy sounding headphone. I rarely use it TBH.
> 
> It is adjustable on the fly just by moving a couple of links that are really easily got at.


 

 I was under the impression that it only smooths the top end out. Does it really roll off the bottom end too? Sub-bass is especially important in the music I listen to (EDM), and if the treble is too much and I had to roll it off, I wouldn't want to roll off the bottom end as well.


----------



## vapman

lvince95 said:


> I was under the impression that it only smooths the top end out. Does it really roll off the bottom end too? Sub-bass is especially important in the music I listen to (EDM), and if the treble is too much and I had to roll it off, I wouldn't want to roll off the bottom end as well.


 

 The other poster is incorrect and/or does not understand how to read the charts on the site.
 It only affcts the top end, and mostly above the listening range.
  
 http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm
  
 Bandwidth is adjustible on the fly (lo/med/hi) but whatever bandwidth option you pick (mellow, aggressive) is permament. i picked mellow and do not regret it.


----------



## disastermouse

vapman said:


> The other poster is incorrect and/or does not understand how to read the charts on the site.
> It only affcts the top end, and mostly above the listening range.
> 
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm
> ...


 

 I don't understand how the options can be both adjustable on the fly and also mellow. Can you explain that a little better? I hope to order the amp tomorrow.


----------



## lvince95

vapman said:


> The other poster is incorrect and/or does not understand how to read the charts on the site.
> It only affcts the top end, and mostly above the listening range.
> 
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm
> ...


 

 I was pretty confused when he said it rolls of the bottom end too.


disastermouse said:


> I don't understand how the options can be both adjustable on the fly and also mellow. Can you explain that a little better? I hope to order the amp tomorrow.


 

 Read their description of the Polaris, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. You either choose mellow or aggressive bandwidth option which is permanent when you order, and then you have all the other options which you can adjust yourself.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> I was pretty confused when he said it rolls of the bottom end too.
> 
> Read their description of the Polaris, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. You either choose mellow or aggressive bandwidth option which is permanent when you order, and then you have all the other options which you can adjust yourself.


 

 I hate to say this, but if it was self-explanatory, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. I'm currently running an original Magni. Would the highs be rolled off in that in comparison?


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> I hate to say this, but if it was self-explanatory, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. I'm currently running an original Magni. Would the highs be rolled off in that in comparison?


 

 You can find that out by reading the description which fully explains what you are asking.
  

Sprinkle on bandwidth adjustment. This rolls off the high frequencies at certain points to help tame the very upper octaves that can cause fatigue or harshness. While not a WOW feature, it is something to toy with to nail the exact sound you are looking for. Many owners are already finding that this subtle setting can make many tracks or headphones much more enjoyable

 EDIT: if you actually bother to read, it explains basically all questions you might have about the Polaris


----------



## Rudiger

disastermouse said:


> I don't understand how the options can be both adjustable on the fly and also mellow. Can you explain that a little better? I hope to order the amp tomorrow.


 
     



    
 It's not complicated !
  
 > The Mellow or Agressive option is final, it's a hardware part of the amp you choose. 
  
 > ... Which then can then be adjusted on the fly with a jumper. This is the level (the "color line") as viewed on these graphs (you've probably already watched it ?) :


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> You can find that out by reading the description which fully explains what you are asking.
> 
> 
> Sprinkle on bandwidth adjustment. This rolls off the high frequencies at certain points to help tame the very upper octaves that can cause fatigue or harshness. While not a WOW feature, it is something to toy with to nail the exact sound you are looking for. Many owners are already finding that this subtle setting can make many tracks or headphones much more enjoyable


 

 Right. But since it's a permanent change, I'm a little leery of the option and it's making me nervous. Currently I run HE-500, which don't really suffer from fatiguing highs. Also, my ability to hear the highs only drops as I get older (I'm 42). Eventually, I may get HD800s or Mr. Speakers Ethers and I have no idea how the 'mellow' version would benefit or detract from those particular cans. What are you running in your setup with the 'mellow' setting? I DO know that I'd like a little bit of the euphonic effect of tubes without having to bother with them.


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> What kind of changes can I expect if I move from my current Magni (original, not 2 or 2 Uber) to the Project Polaris? Also, the bandwidth adjustment is an option for checkout and I don't know what that means or if it's adjustable on the fly or if it's a permanent setting.
> 
> I'm running HiFiMan HE-500 (most of my listening) and HD650 (when I absolutely need the added comfort). My DAC is a MusicStreamer ii+.


 
 The bandwidth adjustments are subtle-not like a tone control.
 'High' is identical for both aggressive and mellow when there is no change to the treble. Aggressive option gives you two levels of adjustment, 'mid' and 'low'. Mellow's 'low' is about equivalent to aggressive's 'mid'. Mellow's 'mid' is useful, as I understand it, if you are using an NOS DAC as it removes possible interference. Sorry I don't understand any more about that but I did read it up about a year ago.
 I have  the aggressive version and am very happy. I rarely change from 'high' anyway.
 If you contact Jeremy he will explain this much more elegantly, and accurately, than me.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> Right. But since it's a permanent change, I'm a little leery of the option and it's making me nervous. Currently I run HE-500, which don't really suffer from fatiguing highs. Also, my ability to hear the highs only drops as I get older (I'm 42). Eventually, I may get HD800s or Mr. Speakers Ethers and I have no idea how the 'mellow' version would benefit or detract from those particular cans. What are you running in your setup with the 'mellow' setting? I DO know that I'd like a little bit of the euphonic effect of tubes without having to bother with them.


 

 No need to be nervous! Jeremy is a really great guy, and you can always send him your Polaris to change settings (I used Mellow for a few months, and then switched to Aggressive). If you find the Aggressive option to be unsuitable for your preferences, you can always send it in and he will change the setting for you for free.
  
 At least that was what he did for me, you might want to check with him just to make sure you are allowed to do this.


----------



## iancraig10

lvince95 said:


> I was under the impression that it only smooths the top end out. Does it really roll off the bottom end too? Sub-bass is especially important in the music I listen to (EDM), and if the treble is too much and I had to roll it off, I wouldn't want to roll off the bottom end as well.




Sorry, I put top and bottom. Yes. Just smooths the top. I must stop having two conversations at once on the Internet!!


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> Right. But since it's a permanent change, I'm a little leery of the option and it's making me nervous. Currently I run HE-500, which don't really suffer from fatiguing highs. Also, my ability to hear the highs only drops as I get older (I'm 42). Eventually, I may get HD800s or Mr. Speakers Ethers and I have no idea how the 'mellow' version would benefit or detract from those particular cans. What are you running in your setup with the 'mellow' setting? I DO know that I'd like a little bit of the euphonic effect of tubes without having to bother with them.


 
 From what you say I don't think it will matter which version you purchase. You will almost certainly leave it on the 'high' setting which is identical for both versions and does not alter the sound. 
 I would still just check with Jeremy first, to be sure though.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> No need to be nervous! Jeremy is a really great guy, and you can always send him your Polaris to change settings (I used Mellow for a few months, and then switched to Aggressive). If you find the Aggressive option to be unsuitable for your preferences, you can always send it in and he will change the setting for you for free.
> 
> At least that was what he did for me, you might want to check with him just to make sure you are allowed to do this.


 

 Oh-cool! Knowing that I can change it later is helpful.


----------



## Rudiger

A small question about it: I realize I do not know if I have the Mellow or Aggressive option on my Polaris. How can we know?


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> Oh-cool! Knowing that I can change it later is helpful.


 
 Garage 1217's help and service to it's customers is legendary.


----------



## iancraig10

TBH, I think the term 'aggressive' is just 'full bandwidth' isn't it? Nothing aggressive about it at all. The other settings just calm the top end a bit.

On mine, I have it on full bandwidth and rarely move it.


----------



## HOWIE13

rudiger said:


> A small question about it: I realize I do not know if I have the Mellow or Aggressive option on my Polaris. How can we know?


 
 I think you may have to contact Jeremy for that-he may keep a record.


----------



## disastermouse

All right, aggressive it is. That's the default anyway.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> TBH, I think the term 'aggressive' is just 'full bandwidth' isn't it? Nothing aggressive about it at all. The other settings just calm the top end a bit.
> 
> On mine, I have it on full bandwidth and rarely move it.


 
 Me too.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> Oh-cool! Knowing that I can change it later is helpful.


 

 It is, and it also helps when Jeremy is friendly and responsive. Of all the people that I've dealt with, he is definitely one of the best. Garage1217 is just 3 people, and I believe it is more like a passion project which explains why he values his customers and helps out more than he needs to (don't quote me on that).
  
 Anyway, you should really just contact him, and he will clear up any and all questions you might have. And it's not stated there, but I think you can return it within a month or something if you don't like it, and also send it in to change the permanent aggressive/mellow settings (I confirmed this with him before purchasing a few months ago, but please confirm that with him yourself).


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> All right, aggressive it is. That's the default anyway.


 
 You do have a bit more flexibility with the settings with the aggressive option, in case you ever need them. I also have a cheapo NOS DAC and am not aware of any distortions-mind you, maybe I've just got used to them.


----------



## iancraig10

If they're sent out with a 'fixed' position, I think I'd take 'aggressive' myself since the jumpers on the amp are easily set in any case.

Aggressive is just a term for full bandwidth. It sounds worse than it is!!


----------



## disastermouse

This seems like a step up in complication over my current amp, but that's not necessarily bad. It's just hard to get a read on how it'll sound compared to my Magni without hearing it first.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, it's always hard with amps and not being able to hear them. Jeremy is absolutely brilliant and will take it back if you don't like it. He really is a great guy. 

Once you understand the settings, it's actually quite easy and you soon realise just how configurable this amp is from different gain settings in conjunction with output impedance settings. The bandwidth settings were wasted on me really!! Don't use them at all.

Grados with high output impedance sound a great deal better to me, in spite of what gurus say!!!

You have nothing to fear. It's a great amp and Jeremy is a really helpful and friendly man. You can even talk to the designer and Jeremy on DIYAH if you like and they will be absolutely honest and clear with you.

http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris


----------



## Rudiger

For my part I went from Magni to Polaris and I have not regretted it !
 Polaris, a little more expensive I admit, sounds so much better.


----------



## vapman

iancraig10 said:


> If they're sent out with a 'fixed' position, I think I'd take 'aggressive' myself since the jumpers on the amp are easily set in any case.
> 
> Aggressive is just a term for full bandwidth. It sounds worse than it is!!


 

 Aggressive is the default but what do you mean by full bandwidth? Aggressive cuts out _more_ of the bandwidth..
 Check the chart again. Mellow's low bandwidth setting is not even as steep as aggressive's medium bandwidth.
  
 i feel medium on mellow is enough to tame high end sparkle without affecting overall sound. i think low affects it too much, so i don't think i would like aggressive myself. it is all personal preference but i am glad i picked mellow and i am treble sensitive.
  
 high bandwidth is the same on both settings. high bandwidth sounds the same on both mellow and aggressive.
  
 also, mellow is the intended bandwidth adjustments as specified by solderman, the designer of the amp.
 aggressive is jeremy's mod to those.
  
 all this is posted on the site and manual and easy to find.
  
 i would tell you to just read the manual but it's a slow morning at work 
 still please check your facts before stating how it works.
  
  
 @disastermouse - notice how there are 3 lines on both the mellow and aggressive bandwidth readings... each of those three lines is the one of the three adjusable bandwidth settings on the amp. either waay you get three bandwidth settings (hi/med/lo) but the difference is aggressive cuts off more high frequencies on medium and low setting thus it cuts off the frequencies more *aggressively*.


----------



## iancraig10

I've read the manual, but not today. 

Yes, you are right. Aggressive refers to aggressive bandwidth adjustment.

This is doing my head in today. 

I'm getting it the wrong way around. It's not a good description really. What I really mean is whatever setting is FULL bandwidth. Let's call it Andy Pandy.

Thanks for putting me right. It's Solderdude btw.

I'm going to have another whisky. Sod it!!!


----------



## HOWIE13

@vapman
  
 'Mellow's low bandwidth setting is not even as steep as aggressive's medium bandwidth'
  
 Miniscule difference- would you hear that?


----------



## iancraig10

Oh .... I've just twigged.

There was a big discussion with Jeremy and Frans at the start of the Polaris. I had an early one and the 'aggressive' setting was too much for me.

Frans felt that 3db drop would probably be the most that people would want, but Jeremy liked 6db so two versions were adopted as a compromise.

One with a maximum of 3db at 20khz and one with 6db at 20 kHz.

This was some time ago and my memory isn't great.

Mine is aggressive so it has a 6db drop maximum. The other option in most cases would be fine with a 3db drop maximum.

I've set mine so there is no drop in any case. That's what I keep thinking is aggressive, when in fact it's the other way around.

I talked to Frans about this when they did it since it would have been clearer to have said 6db or 3db restriction on bandwidth settings.

The description is a little odd and we all had this going at the start of the Polaris.

So

Default = drops of 6, 3 or 0 at 20 kHz
The other setting is 3, 1.5 or 0 at 20khz

So default which equals aggressive gives most attenuation at 20Khz if you want it, or you can set it to 3 or zero.
The other setting has 3 as default and it can be set to 1.5 or zero.

It's not a real biggie unless you 'really' want a drop of 6db at 20khz. I personally think 3 is quite enough.

Frans, (the designer) thought that 3db was better for most people. That's the 'mellow' one.

Where's that whiskey?


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Oh .... I've just twigged.
> 
> There was a big discussion with Jeremy and Frans at the start of the Polaris. I had an early one and the 'aggressive' setting was too much for me.
> 
> ...


 
 Well I'm glad you're now happy Ian but while you enjoy your whisky I'm left wondering what all this has to do with NOS DAC's because I'm sure I read somewhere it does-unless I'm going completely insane (not impossible).


----------



## iancraig10

:blink:

I'm going slightly mad.
I'm going slightlupy mad
It's finally happened,
Yes it's happened ...... To me.

God bless Freddie. 

Whichever Polaris is bought, they're a great amp!!!!


----------



## vapman

howie13 said:


> @vapman
> 
> 'Mellow's low bandwidth setting is not even as steep as aggressive's medium bandwidth'
> 
> Miniscule difference- would you hear that?




I am very very treble sensitive. I definitely can tell you there is a noticable difference between all 3 settings even on mellow.

 Middle on mellow leaves all sound unchanged but makes overly bright phones not painful. I only use low bandwidth if my ears are especially sensitive to high freqs that day.

Can't go wrong either way but if you are deciding between aggressive or mellow you should be asking yourself how noticable of a treble roll off do you want.

I use mine with everything from iem to planar. Usually always on low impedance for max power output


----------



## HOWIE13

vapman said:


> I am very very treble sensitive. I definitely can tell you there is a noticable difference between all 3 settings even on mellow.
> 
> Middle on mellow leaves all sound unchanged but makes overly bright phones not painful. I only use low bandwidth if my ears are especially sensitive to high freqs that day.
> 
> ...


 
 I see where you're coming from.
 I listen mainly to Classical and some excellent analogue recordings from the 50-60's have been atrociously remastered and sound terribly bright and ear piercing, especially violins. For these I'm grateful for the aggressive version's low and medium settings.  Normally though I'm fine with the high setting.
 It's great to have these choices to fine tune the sound


----------



## disastermouse

Okay, so now that we've settled the bandwidth question (and thank you for the detailed explanation!), now we come to the most important decision:

Which color LED?


----------



## iancraig10

Mine's blue. They are quite bright but can be turned off. When adjusting the jumpers, I have to cover the led because it blinds me!!!


----------



## vapman

Don't forge there is even a trimpot for led brightness!

I have uv and it looks cool but I will put in a rainbow 7 color led.


----------



## iancraig10

Ok, don't tell me. It's in the manual?

You need to know, I'm an old geezer and I've been on the whisky today!!! 

Well that's my excuse.........


----------



## Tunkejazz

disastermouse said:


> Okay, so now that we've settled the bandwidth question (and thank you for the detailed explanation!), now we come to the most important decision:
> 
> Which color LED?


 
 The white led sounds very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriously, the white led looks very good.


----------



## HOWIE13

Mine's green-looks kind of spooky fluorescent in the dark.


----------



## disastermouse

Purchased! Acrylic, Silver Pot, Blue LED, Aggressive.  
  
 So, this thing will be here tomorrow, right? /kidding
  
 It's been so long since I've had a new piece of gear. My first Amp was a FiiO E7, then E10/E7 combo, then an O2 (horrible, gawdawful amp, IMHO), and then the Schiit Magni. And now, Project Polaris!


----------



## iancraig10

Well done. I'm glad you managed to weave through the whole business and I'm sorry about getting my comments backwards!! Thing is, once set, you'll find that you rarely need to play around in reality.

For me, I had a play with bandwidth for a while and then left it as flat as it goes. I decided not to have any roll off.

Then I played with output impedances and gain settings.

Left the output impedance at its lowest and gain is low (I think)

It has a lot of power but is a lovely, warm and fruity amp. Both my Ember and Polaris are run virtually all day. I've worn out three tubes on the Ember!! It's quite odd how 'grown up' sounding they both are and yet so small a footprint.

Now you've made the decision, it's a horrible wait.

As for me, I read the manual and turned the bright blue down!!


----------



## iancraig10

howie13 said:


> Mine's green-looks kind of spooky fluorescent in the dark.




That's the drink speaking, or you see dead people.


----------



## Rudiger

howie13 said:


> I think you may have to contact Jeremy for that-he may keep a record.


 
 Yep, Jeremy is actually super fast to reply !!
 He explained to me that I have the Agressive option.
 That suits me well, as I do very little difference when I make my choice. (....These are probably my ears that are not very efficient...)


----------



## Rudiger

... Oh, and I have blue led, of course


----------



## iancraig10

Ah, but is it DULL blue like mine is now? I read the manual today!!!


----------



## iamxLn

nm


----------



## disastermouse

rudiger said:


> ... Oh, and I have blue led, of course


 

 Blue LEDs just sound better.


----------



## disastermouse

iamxln said:


> nm


 

 And yeah, I can't wait to see what the difference from the Magni is either.


----------



## iamxLn

please share when you get it!


----------



## disastermouse

iamxln said:


> please share when you get it!


 

 Oh heck, yeah. My girlfriend finally opened her Christmas present today (she was with her family during the actual holiday). I got her a pair of Fidelio X2s from that Amazon deal a while back. She thought they were okay from her iMac's headphone port, but her jaw dropped when she heard them from my rather simple setup (HRT MusicStreamer ii+ and Schiit Magni original). She's stealing my amp when the Polaris comes in, which is fitting, because the Polaris was her Christmas gift to me. All she needs to do now is buy a Modi 2 and some cables and she's set.
  
 We spent a bunch of the night just A/B'ing music with her new headphones, my HE-500, and my HD650.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> Oh heck, yeah. My girlfriend finally opened her Christmas present today (she was with her family during the actual holiday). I got her a pair of Fidelio X2s from that Amazon deal a while back. She thought they were okay from her iMac's headphone port, but her jaw dropped when she heard them from my rather simple setup (HRT MusicStreamer ii+ and Schiit Magni original). She's stealing my amp when the Polaris comes in, which is fitting, because the Polaris was her Christmas gift to me. All she needs to do now is buy a Modi 2 and some cables and she's set.
> 
> We spent a bunch of the night just A/B'ing music with her new headphones, my HE-500, and my HD650.


 

 Get the ODAC since the Magni's is already slightly bright! The Modi is already somewhat lean and bright, and I rather get theODAC rev B since it's more neutral. The previous ODAC (non rev B) might be considered a little bright because of the Sabre Chip (infamous Sabre glare), but with the PCM 5102A it's not a problem anymore.
  
 I have owned the ODAC rev B (also originl ODAC) and Modi 2 Uber for months and I definitely hear the difference.


----------



## disastermouse

The Objective amp was so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful, that I will never ever buy an Objective anything. So yeah...no ODAC.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> The Objective amp was so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful, that I will never ever buy an Objective anything. So yeah...no ODAC.


 

 Well, like I said I have owned both the Modi 2 Uber and the ODAC, and have no issues with the ODAC whatsoever and actually prefer it slightly over the Modi.
  
 And how exactly is the O2 amp awful? I'm actually quite confused with why you would say that. Could you at least give more details? It's even more neutral than the Magni, and the original Magni doesn't even have gain switches and will have background noise with sensitive IEMs/HP. I fail to see how the O2 so awful when it's so similar to the Magni except for power.
  
 EDIT: And if you thought it was all powerful, no it does not power planars or hard to drive cans well as compared to Magni since it has less output power (something like 600-700mW max at some impedance which I can't remember, iirc). But that does not make it awful in the slightest.


----------



## vapman

The good old AK4396 has been around for so long you can get a wide variety of devices that use it, it is time tested and proven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 
  
 My Project Polaris is the centerpiece of my stereo system. I actually might use it more frequently as a stereo preamp than a headphone amp, although it is truly an exceptional headphone amp.
  
 I have it paired with a Yamaha M-4 power amplifier driving 2 separate sets of power hungry speakers. The sound is phenomenal and beautiful. It truly puts all my previous preamps to shame. I used to have it sitting on top of a Son of Ampzilla, but this runs cooler and has more watts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I just use a AK4396 based DAC and run that into the Project Polaris input, but I didn't get to try it with my friend's ODAC when we last met up, so I'll be excited to try the ODAC with my amp and see how it sounds. Admittedly my FiiO X1 on line out mode doesn't sound much different than my AK4396 DAC.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> Well, like I said I have owned both the Modi 2 Uber and the ODAC, and have no issues with the ODAC whatsoever and actually prefer it slightly over the Modi.
> 
> And how exactly is the O2 amp awful? I'm actually quite confused with why you would say that. Could you at least give more details? It's even more neutral than the Magni, and the original Magni doesn't even have gain switches and will have background noise with sensitive IEMs/HP. I fail to see how the O2 so awful when it's so similar to the Magni except for power.
> 
> EDIT: And if you thought it was all powerful, no it does not power planars or hard to drive cans well as compared to Magni since it has less output power (something like 600-700mW max at some impedance which I can't remember, iirc). But that does not make it awful in the slightest.



It couldn't drive even my HD650s without distortion. I haven't dug the thing up in a while. All the Objective fans blamed it on my DAC (HRT MusicStreamer II+).


----------



## vapman

I've heard my friend's microstreamer exactly once for a few minutes a while ago, it's not bad but it's not really very good either in my opinion. I'm sure there are cheaper options than the Modi 2 for an AK4396, I could be wrong, but I think part of the problem is the microstreamer is really meant for situations where you can't power an amp with anything other than a usb port, so for home use there are better options for the money. for travel, it is still a good travel amp AFAIK.


----------



## disastermouse

Also, Jeremy must live by the 'Underpromise, Overdeliver' motto! When he got my order, he said he expected to ship it on Saturday. I just got a shipping notification that it has shipped today! ETA is Monday!!


----------



## disastermouse

vapman said:


> I've heard my friend's microstreamer exactly once for a few minutes a while ago, it's not bad but it's not really very good either in my opinion. I'm sure there are cheaper options than the Modi 2 for an AK4396, I could be wrong, but I think part of the problem is the microstreamer is really meant for situations where you can't power an amp with anything other than a usb port, so for home use there are better options for the money. for travel, it is still a good travel amp AFAIK.



What's funny is that the only time I've ever heard anyone rag on the MSii+ was when they were defending the Objective. Somewhere in a Schiit thread someone said it was better than a Modi when I said I was thinking about changing my DAC.

Also, if any headphone could stand to benefit from a bright DAC/amp, it's the X2. As long as there's no sibilance, that is.

Also, it's not a Microstreamer. It's an HRT MusicStreamer II+.


----------



## vapman

disastermouse said:


> What's funny is that the only time I've ever heard anyone rag on the MSii+ was when they were defending the Objective. Somewhere in a Schiit thread someone said it was better than a Modi when I said I was thinking about changing my DAC.


 

 Does it have a way to power it from a  wall power supply instead of usb? i would think that would clean up any noise left over.
  
 It can be hacked together with a cut up USB extension cable and a wall 5V power supply but if you're not DIY oriented it's not worth it unless you know someone who could make that cable for you.
  
 What I don't have is more than 5 minutes of expeirence with a MSii+ with one pair of IEMs... but if you get another dac try it out anyway?


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> It couldn't drive even my HD650s without distortion. I haven't dug the thing up in a while. All the Objective fans blamed it on my DAC (HRT MusicStreamer II+).


 

 It's definitely not the DAC's fault. The simple fact is that the O2 does not have enough power, or you were using it on 6.5 gain with the ODAC (this causes clipping with the O2 when used in tandem with the ODAC). It was one of the O2's design flaws, which was alleviated with selectable gain options.
  
 It does not power the HD650 well, but calling it 'so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful' is certainly a stretch too far. By this logic, I'm assuming every amp that is not able to drive the HD650 is also 'so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful?'


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> What's funny is that the only time I've ever heard anyone rag on the MSii+ was when they were defending the Objective. Somewhere in a Schiit thread someone said it was better than a Modi when I said I was thinking about changing my DAC.
> 
> Also, if any headphone could stand to benefit from a bright DAC/amp, it's the X2. As long as there's no sibilance, that is.


 

 I'd like to have a more neutral dac/amp so it can fit with a wider range of headphones, but that's just me. I don't like to try to tame a headphone's characteristic and instead let the headphone's sonic character shine, if you know what I mean.
  
 Anyway, I tend not to follow Schiit threads because of fan bias (and here, Schiit is also sponsored so yeah there's gonna be a lot of fans). I try to be as objective as possible (no pun intended) and you can take my opinion for what it's worth, but there is barely any difference between the ODAC and Modi, and I had them for months too. I constantly switched between them, tried to AB them, and concluded that there is a very very slight and subtle brightness and digital grain that I associate with the Modi (it might even be placebo for all I know, because the difference is very very subtle).
  
 As for the O2, the Magni is definitely more powerful. The O2 is a good entry level amp, and performs on-par with the Magni at lower impedances (but O2 doesn't power planars well unlike the Magni). But beyond that, the Magni wins hands down. That does not make the O2 'so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful' however, it is just that the Magni is more powerful. In terms of SQ, there is almost no difference since both are neutral amps. Both are incredibly good for their price. If yo had looked at the specs beforehand and done more research, you would know that the O2 is not powerful, especially at higher impedances.
  
 Back to the Polaris, glad to know you'll get it early. I moved on from the Asgard 2 to the Polaris myself, and it was quite an upgrade for me. For me, the Polaris is just so much better than the Asgard 2 at the same price (more power, many many customizable settings to suit different cans, small form factor, and doesn't toast bread like the Asgard 2 does).
  
 EDIT: TL;DR - You won't go wrong with either the ODAC or the Modi, you won't hear a difference between the 2 under normal listening conditions. Even with critical listening and A/B, it was extremely difficult. Also, don't be a hypocrite and blame the O2 for being bad when it just doesn't have the power. Calling it bad when using it for a task unsuited for the O2 is kinda unfair IMO.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> It's definitely not the DAC's fault. The simple fact is that the O2 does not have enough power, or you were using it on 6.5 gain with the ODAC (this causes clipping with the O2 when used in tandem with the ODAC). It was one of the O2's design flaws, which was alleviated with selectable gain options.
> 
> It does not power the HD650 well, but calling it 'so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful' is certainly a stretch too far. By this logic, I'm assuming every amp that is not able to drive the HD650 is also 'so bad, so unbelievably unacceptably awful?'



I was specifically asking before I got it if it could drive my HD650. I wasn't terribly surprised when it couldn't drive my HE-500, although I was disappointed.



vapman said:


> Does it have a way to power it from a  wall power supply instead of usb? i would think that would clean up any noise left over.
> 
> It can be hacked together with a cut up USB extension cable and a wall 5V power supply but if you're not DIY oriented it's not worth it unless you know someone who could make that cable for you.
> 
> What I don't have is more than 5 minutes of expeirence with a MSii+ with one pair of IEMs... but if you get another dac try it out anyway?



Part of the reason that I want a new DAC is because the MSii+ isn't independently powered. The problem is that I'd really like one of Schiit's MB DACs. BiMBy is having some...issues right now but it'd be the cheapest I could afford for myself if I saved for a while.

But...I still need to save for deep editing of the novel I'm writing, cover art, and building an author website.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> I'd like to have a more neutral dac/amp so it can fit with a wider range of headphones, but that's just me. I don't like to try to tame a headphone's characteristic and instead let the headphone's sonic character shine, if you know what I mean.
> 
> Anyway, I tend not to follow Schiit threads because of fan bias (and here, Schiit is also sponsored so yeah there's gonna be a lot of fans). I try to be as objective as possible (no pun intended) and you can take my opinion for what it's worth, but there is barely any difference between the ODAC and Modi, and I had them for months too. I constantly switched between them, tried to AB them, and concluded that there is a very very slight and subtle brightness and digital grain that I associate with the Modi (it might even be placebo for all I know, because the difference is very very subtle).
> 
> ...



I got many assurances from the Objective thread (this was fairly early on) that the HD650 would be no problem for the Objective. I wouldn't have ordered one otherwise (I didn't build mine).

As for the cost benefit of Polaris over Asgard, you've nailed exactly why I went with it! It just looks like an amazing deal and very versatile for the price.


----------



## kehorton

FWIW, when I moved from the Magni to the Polaris, I was greatly impressed. Voices finally sounded "right" (I didn't realize how off the Magni was until I tried this amp). Various subtle details became much more evident.  There was more weight to the sound.  I was shocked, like "smile on my face" shocked.
  
 I listened to a friend's ODAC->O2 through his HD650s (and through my AKG 550s I had at the time).  The thought that kept running through my head as I listened to it was "This sounds like I'm listening to a Krell amp with silver cables" (I spent a lot of time in audiophile shops in the 90s, listened to a *lot* of components).  Meaning: it sounded so 'accurate' as to sound cold.  So it didn't sound at all musical - it sounded like I was listening to equipment (if that makes sense).
  
 My 2c.


 Moving to this amp was one of the best things I have done (that, plus getting the HE-500s). I leave my on high bandwidth and low resistance. I keep tweaking the Gain level, though. I ended up optimizing it so that my normal listening level keeps the volume pot between 9 and 12 o'clock. (I had heard that's optimal for the amp)


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> I got many assurances from the Objective thread (this was fairly early on) that the HD650 would be no problem for the Objective. I wouldn't have ordered one otherwise (I didn't build mine).
> 
> As for the cost benefit of Polaris over Asgard, you've nailed exactly why I went with it! It just looks like an amazing deal and very versatile for the price.


 

 Oh, I believe you might have the clipping problem if you had one with the 6.5 gain. But otherwise, I think it might be able to drive the HD650 based on the specs, but I have no experience with that. It is still not a very powerful amp though, and probably won't drive the HD650 well.
  
 If you're on a budget, don't go for the Bifrost, it's not really worth it if you're strapped for cash. Even with the Bifrost, it is still hard to differentiate the ODAC from the Bifrost when you volume match them. Just google 'ODAC vs Bifrost blind test reddit'. There will be links to the blind test (first test is not done properly) done at a site which shall not be named here. It is a long thread though, and TL;DR - they coudn't really tell the difference between the ODAC and Bifrost using the amps liek the mjollnir 2 and cans like the HD800 under critical AB listening sessions.
  
 Garage1217 amps are just great and severely underrated. If only they bothered to market as well as Schiit, they would be even more popular and give Schiit a run for their money I reckon.
  
 EDIT: If you view the site which shall not be named here, do not blindly trust the leader that has a cat avatar. For some reason, all of his star graphs will have Schiit products at #1, and all of his blind tests will have Schiit as the winner. Too biased and probably sponsored as well.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> Oh, I believe you might have the clipping problem if you had one with the 6.5 gain. But otherwise, I think it might be able to drive the HD650 based on the specs, but I have no experience with that. It is still not a very powerful amp though, and probably won't drive the HD650 well.
> 
> If you're on a budget, don't go for the Bifrost, it's not really worth it if you're strapped for cash. Even with the Bifrost, it is still hard to differentiate the ODAC from the Bifrost when you volume match them. Just google 'ODAC vs Bifrost blind test reddit'. There will be links to the blind test (first test is not done properly) done at a site which shall not be named here. It is a long thread though, and TL;DR - they coudn't really tell the difference between the ODAC and Bifrost using the amps liek the mjollnir 2 and cans like the HD800 under critical AB listening sessions.
> 
> Garage1217 amps are just great and severely underrated. If only they bothered to market as well as Schiit, they would be even more popular and give Schiit a run for their money I reckon.



Was it the multibit Bifrost or the non-MB Bifrost? As for the ODAC, I'd feel especially stupid if I bought it and it under-performed since my experience with the Objective amp was so terrible.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> Was it the multibit Bifrost or the non-MB Bifrost? As for the ODAC, I'd feel especially stupid if I bought it and it under-performed since the Objective amp was so terrible.


 

 It was the Bifrost Multibit.
  
 The O2 had a design flaw with the 6.5 gain. Basically, it needed more voltage than the ODAC could supply at 6.5 gain, which causes it to clip. This is a flaw unique to the O2. The ODAC works with every other amp jsut fine.
  
 If you are expecting to hear major differences, prepare to be disappointed. Even Frans from Garage1217 himself admits he is 'DAC-deaf' on the DIY forums. I too would classify myself somewhere there I guess. You probably won't even hear much of a difference coming from the HRT MS.
  
 EDIT: Sorry, the ODAC supplied too much voltage for 6.5 gain, not too little. I am misinformed about this.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> It was the Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> The O2 had a design flaw with the 6.5 gain. Basically, it needed more voltage than the ODAC could supply at 6.5 gain, which causes it to clip. This is a flaw unique to the O2. The ODAC works with every other amp jsut fine.
> 
> If you are expecting to hear major differences, prepare to be disappointed. Even Frans from Garage1217 himself admits he is 'DAC-deaf' on the DIY forums. I too would classify myself somewhere there I guess. You probably won't even hear much of a difference coming from the HRT MS.



Well then, that just lets me put off a new DAC purchase for the foreseeable future! My amp was the weakest link in my chain and I felt that upgrading that would give me the most audible difference outside of new headphones.

Any suggestion which other headphones work well with Polaris? If I like this amp, I admit that I may end up getting into their tube offerings. I'm just afraid that I'd spend all my money on tubes. In the Polaris description, it's said that there's a touch of tube euphonics in this SS amp.


----------



## vapman

a better question is what headphones do I have that DON'T work amazingly with the polaris?
  
 it's my first choice for all my IEMs, all my fancy earbuds, my grados, my planar hifimans (power hogs!), my SZ2000, portapro, and my solid state stereo preamp of choice to boot...
  
 to be honest haven't tried them with my KRK KNS 8400 as i can't justify all the headphones i have if i want more...
  
 sometimes i wish it had a hardware bass boost or something but i've always been able to get that extra punch with software EQ, the polaris responds great to it.
  
 i've been meaning to get a tube G1217 amp since i got this, i know you will be here to post about it as soon as you start hearing what this is capable of. i would just use the stock tubes probably, i probably wouldn't get into tube rolling if i got a tube amp of theirs.


----------



## disastermouse

vapman said:


> a better question is what headphones do I have that DON'T work amazingly with the polaris?
> 
> it's my first choice for all my IEMs, all my fancy earbuds, my grados, my planar hifimans (power hogs!), my SZ2000, portapro, and my solid state stereo preamp of choice to boot...
> 
> ...



I'm glad it doesn't have a bass boost or faux 3D or cross-channel. I'm running almost everything via Tidal HIFI now and was running Spotify for everything except a few choice albums ripped to ALAC before that. I don't think Todal has an EQ. I have a Mac audiophile player but I use it so infrequently that I can't remember what it's called.


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> Well then, that just lets me put off a new DAC purchase for the foreseeable future! My amp was the weakest link in my chain and I felt that upgrading that would give me the most audible difference outside of new headphones.
> 
> Any suggestion which other headphones work well with Polaris? If I like this amp, I admit that I may end up getting into their tube offerings. I'm just afraid that I'd spend all my money on tubes. In the Polaris description, it's said that there's a touch of tube euphonics in this SS amp.


 
 Yes, the Polaris has been created to add a degree of 'tube - like' quality whilst retaining the characteristics of SS amps.
 If you decide on a tube G1217 amp discuss with Jeremy your sonic needs prior to purchase and he will advise on a suitable stock tube. You shouldn't need to spend loads of money experimenting on tubes as there is now a lot of information on the G1217, especially Ember, forums to inform your decisions.


----------



## Aradea

Does Jeremy ships this worldwide?


----------



## iancraig10

Most definitely.


----------



## HOWIE13

lvince95 said:


> Oh, I believe you might have the clipping problem if you had one with the 6.5 gain. But otherwise, I think it might be able to drive the HD650 based on the specs, but I have no experience with that. It is still not a very powerful amp though, and probably won't drive the HD650 well.
> 
> If you're on a budget, don't go for the Bifrost, it's not really worth it if you're strapped for cash. Even with the Bifrost, it is still hard to differentiate the ODAC from the Bifrost when you volume match them. Just google 'ODAC vs Bifrost blind test reddit'. There will be links to the blind test (first test is not done properly) done at a site which shall not be named here. It is a long thread though, and TL;DR - they coudn't really tell the difference between the ODAC and Bifrost using the amps liek the mjollnir 2 and cans like the HD800 under critical AB listening sessions.
> 
> ...


 
  As I gain experience I am beginning to recognise the influence of company marketing in many reviews.


----------



## iancraig10

lvince95 said:


> Oh, I believe you might have the clipping problem if you had one with the 6.5 gain. But otherwise, I think it might be able to drive the HD650 based on the specs, but I have no experience with that. It is still not a very powerful amp though, and probably won't drive the HD650 well.
> 
> If you're on a budget, don't go for the Bifrost, it's not really worth it if you're strapped for cash. Even with the Bifrost, it is still hard to differentiate the ODAC from the Bifrost when you volume match them. Just google 'ODAC vs Bifrost blind test reddit'. There will be links to the blind test (first test is not done properly) done at a site which shall not be named here. It is a long thread though, and TL;DR - they coudn't really tell the difference between the ODAC and Bifrost using the amps liek the mjollnir 2 and cans like the HD800 under critical AB listening sessions.
> 
> ...




Now you have me wondering, what site? I have the mad hatter, so it's not my place! If you guys want info from either Jeremy or Frans, just post on DIYAH where Frans especially gets back within a day.

The advertising thing is difficult because Jeremy is a one man band and he's making them to a low profit budget as well. So he can't compete with companies like Schiit with regards to marketing. However, as far as sound goes, Schiit enthusiasts are welcome to stay with their amps. I wouldn't change from Ember or Polaris.


----------



## disastermouse

iancraig10 said:


> Now you have me wondering, what site? I have the mad hatter, so it's not my place! If you guys want info from either Jeremy or Frans, just post on DIYAH where Frans especially gets back within a day.
> 
> The advertising thing is difficult because Jeremy is a one man band and he's making them to a low profit budget as well. So he can't compete with companies like Schiit with regards to marketing. However, as far as sound goes, Schiit enthusiasts are welcome to stay with their amps. I wouldn't change from Ember or Polaris.



I was actually really impressed with the Magni and with Schiit in general. I just didn't think there was really a comparable product for the price with a similar sound or adjustability. I didn't have the money to jump to a Lyr 2. My buying a Polaris isn't a knock on Schiit.


----------



## iancraig10

No, no. I'm not implying that at all.

I'm saying that I'm extremely happy with the Ember and Polaris. Each to his own!! 

I'm just aware that gear that gets mentioned a lot here sells. Not always for the right reasons.


----------



## lvince95

iancraig10 said:


> Now you have me wondering, what site? I have the mad hatter, so it's not my place! If you guys want info from either Jeremy or Frans, just post on DIYAH where Frans especially gets back within a day.
> 
> The advertising thing is difficult because Jeremy is a one man band and he's making them to a low profit budget as well. So he can't compete with companies like Schiit with regards to marketing. However, as far as sound goes, Schiit enthusiasts are welcome to stay with their amps. I wouldn't change from Ember or Polaris.


 

 Well, just look at the reddit post. My post will be edited/deleted if I reference the site which shall not be named here. It is certainly good to have information from multiple forums to reduce even more bias when researching products.
  
 Yup I know about the limitations Jeremy has, just wished he and more resources to do even more. Currently, there's nothing really like the Polaris at it's price range in the market currently, and it is somewhat baffling that not many know about it when it is so unique.
  
 I don't hate Schiit and all, I have owned their products and they are great and good bang for the buck. They are very popular because of this, and also because of very very smart marketing (starting up that blog). Personally, I have had bad experiences with their Customer Service and also quality control of some of their products, but despite that I still agree that they offer very good products with good pricing.
  
 However, looking at the specs and price, and also the excellent (and very friendly + helpful) customer service, I just believe that Garage1217 offer better products for cheaper than Schiit at the moment. I've not seen a complaint about G1217 at all (maybe because not many buy from them, who knows). This might change in the future, but for now that is what I know and how I feel.


----------



## raoultrifan

lvince95 said:


> The O2 had a design flaw with the 6.5 gain. Basically, it needed more voltage than the ODAC could supply at 6.5 gain, which causes it to clip. This is a flaw unique to the O2. The ODAC works with every other amp jsut fine.


 
  
 Hi lvince95, 
  
 For O2 the gain of 6.5X needs to be used only with low voltage input sources (portables perhaps), like 0.7-1V. Feeding the voltage gain OPAMP with an ODAC that has 2.1V output is not a good idea, because voltage gain OPAMP will start distorting (you can swap NJM2068 with LME49720 if you want to resolve this); same applies to output buffers: max. output voltage is only 7.3V (feel free to swap NJM4556 with OPA551, the buffer from Polaris, but it wont be easy to do it). The max. gain for O2 for use with 2V input sources should be 3.5X, in case you want to be 110% it will not distort the sound at all.
  
 Now back to the thread, I love this Polaris project and I wonder if Garage1217 will ever build a balanced headamp, either based on Polaris, either based on, Ember, C.H.A.M.P. or anything else. Lot of people around here are using balanced DACs and headphones and we all need good & cheap balanced headamp. 
  
 Have a great new year all!


----------



## vapman

That was my only main complaint about the Polaris when I got it, is that I had to switch back to unbalanced, but the sound is so good that I am okay with it. I can only imagine how the Polaris could open up if properly balanced


----------



## raoultrifan

vapman, I believe you could buy another Polaris and use for input 4x(RCA) -> 2x(XLR-3pin) adapters and for output 2x(6.3mm jack) -> 1x(XLR-4pin) adapter, ignoring input and output GND. 
  
 All we need to go balanced is a real 4-channel amplifier, right?


----------



## kehorton

This would be awesome - I was wanting this too! Fully balanced from my USB->SPDIF to DAC to amp to phones.  Everything I've read comparing balanced to single-ended has been exactly what I experienced when listening to high-end 2 channel systems.  I would immediately buy a Polaris that was fully balanced!


----------



## braaam

Did anyone compare this directly to an Matrix M-stage with class A mod?


----------



## vapman

raoultrifan said:


> vapman, I believe you could buy another Polaris and use for input 4x(RCA) -> 2x(XLR-3pin) adapters and for output 2x(6.3mm jack) -> 1x(XLR-4pin) adapter, ignoring input and output GND.
> 
> All we need to go balanced is a real 4-channel amplifier, right?


 

 That works but is kind of hacky. i thought about modding the schematic to allow for XLR in and out, but don't have the time and desire necessary to make it a reality.
  
 i don't really care about balanced headphone output, i suppose if i got a balanced cable for my HE-400 i would but i'm happy with plain unbalanced headphone out.
  
 edit: My point is that nobody should put off buying a Polaris because it isn't balanced. It sounds way better than all my previous gear which was balanced enabled


----------



## iamxLn

disastermouse said:


> Oh heck, yeah. My girlfriend finally opened her Christmas present today (she was with her family during the actual holiday). I got her a pair of Fidelio X2s from that Amazon deal a while back. She thought they were okay from her iMac's headphone port, but her jaw dropped when she heard them from my rather simple setup (HRT MusicStreamer ii+ and Schiit Magni original). She's stealing my amp when the Polaris comes in, which is fitting, because the Polaris was her Christmas gift to me. All she needs to do now is buy a Modi 2 and some cables and she's set.
> 
> We spent a bunch of the night just A/B'ing music with her new headphones, my HE-500, and my HD650.


 
 that's awesome. my girlfriend wanted to get me it for christmas, but i'm so hard to buy for I said just save it for valentine's day. She got me the little dot last year though


----------



## disastermouse

Is anyone running this amp with HD800 or Mr. Speakers Ether?


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> Is anyone running this amp with HD800 or Mr. Speakers Ether?


 

 No, but the pairing is superb on my LCD-2.2F


----------



## Asr

disastermouse said:


> Is anyone running this amp with HD800 or Mr. Speakers Ether?


 
  
 Tried it with the Ether briefly a while ago, impressions were posted here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/1755#post_11869970
  
 IIRC, MrSpeakers recommends something like the Lyr 2 at minimum for the Ether.


----------



## disastermouse

asr said:


> Tried it with the Ether briefly a while ago, impressions were posted here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/1755#post_11869970
> 
> IIRC, MrSpeakers recommends something like the Lyr 2 at minimum for the Ether.


 

 Judging by that review, would I be right in thinking that you're more interested in the HD800S than the Ether or the HE-1000?


----------



## senorx12562

I am using my polaris currently with lcd2.2f, he500, hd600, dt880-250, k553, and senn momentum on-ears, and have yet to find a bad pairing. In addition to the sound quality that had been reported, it's flexibility for use with such disparate loads was my motive for buying it. I'm very happy so far.


----------



## Aradea

Anyone using this out their laptop?? what DAC do you guys pair it with?


----------



## Tunkejazz

aradea said:


> Anyone using this out their laptop?? what DAC do you guys pair it with?




With laptops it depends a lot on the brand and the onboard dac. My macbookpro has a decent dac and when I plug it straight into my Polaris it sounds quite decent. From my phone it sounds terrible. But using a decent dedicated dac should give noticeably better results, at least in my case it does.

As for the dac, I am using a ifi nano dsd, but a Modi2 or odac may be all you need. More expensive dacs...I would put my money in better headphones at this price bracket.


----------



## Asr

disastermouse said:


> Judging by that review, would I be right in thinking that you're more interested in the HD800S than the Ether or the HE-1000?


 
  
 Not sure where you got the HD800S or HE-1000 from, as I didn't mention them in those impressions....?
  
 Incidentally I did get to hear an HE-1000 on my Polaris back in August, but I wouldn't recommend that combo (nor am I interested in ever buying an HE-1000 now based on that experience). Also not interested in the HD800S—I really don't care how great it might sound, as I bought the original HD800 three times to give it a chance on different sets of gear that I owned at 3 different points in time, and every time it just ended up really disappointing me. I can't say that I'm really interested in buying any >$1K flagship headphones, in fact—with the sole exception of possibly the ENIGMAcoustics Dharma, someday maybe.


----------



## disastermouse

asr said:


> Not sure where you got the HD800S or HE-1000 from, as I didn't mention them in those impressions....?
> 
> Incidentally I did get to hear an HE-1000 on my Polaris back in August, but I wouldn't recommend that combo (nor am I interested in ever buying an HE-1000 now based on that experience). Also not interested in the HD800S—I really don't care how great it might sound, as I bought the original HD800 three times to give it a chance on different sets of gear that I owned at 3 different points in time, and every time it just ended up really disappointing me. I can't say that I'm really interested in buying any >$1K flagship headphones, in fact—with the sole exception of possibly the ENIGMAcoustics Dharma, someday maybe.


 

 What are your headphones of choice right now? What does your setup look like? There's not much information in your profile.


----------



## disastermouse

I keep refreshing the USPS page with my tracking info. It's supposed to get here Monday but it hasn't shown any progress since Dec. 31st. I have had packages in the USPS system just not show anything for a while until suddenly they're 'Out For Delivery', but it still makes me feel like my dearly anticipated amplifier is sitting in limbo.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> I keep refreshing the USPS page with my tracking info. It's supposed to get here Monday but it hasn't shown any progress since Dec. 31st. I have had packages in the USPS system just not show anything for a while until suddenly they're 'Out For Delivery', but it still makes me feel like my dearly anticipated amplifier is sitting in limbo.


 
 It's known that USPS tracking is not reliable, which is why most sites will cite USPS as 'somewhat tracked' when choosing them as your shipping option.
  
 It may not be the case for you guys, but I've been using USPS for 2 years and so far nothing has gone wrong and all packages were delivered on time (not even one delay in 2 years). Maybe I'm just lucky. They don't really track their packages frequently, but I don't really mind as long as it gets to me by the due date (which has been the case for me so far).


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> It's known that USPS tracking is not reliable, which is why most sites will cite USPS as 'somewhat tracked' when choosing them as your shipping option.
> 
> It may not be the case for you guys, but I've been using USPS for 2 years and so far nothing has gone wrong and all packages were delivered on time (not even one delay in 2 years). Maybe I'm just lucky. They don't really track their packages frequently, but I don't really mind as long as it gets to me by the due date (which has been the case for me so far).


 

 Yup. Never had them screw up...except from Florida to Savannah. Since they're coming from the west and I'm way up north (Up nort, eh?), they should avoid the awfulness that is the southeast of this otherwise great nation of ours.
  
 Still though, it's messing with my obsessive tracking.


----------



## iancraig10

Jeremy packs them well too, so try to relax. I know it's difficult though!!


----------



## disastermouse

mike in bama said:


> Initial impression is very, very good. The Polaris has enough horsepower to drive the 560s with room to spare. Again, I haven't tried running with no input attenuation so the additional headroom available is unknown. I can say that with attenuation you can get to hearing damage volume.
> 
> I am tremendously pleased with the sound. Everything I have thrown at this combination is jaw dropping good. Fast, agile, nimble - every subtly is there. Firm, even sneaky bass. Not at all overblown. An overall feeling of untapped power ready to jump into action when needed.
> 
> In short, I'm keeping this combination. It is exactly what I was looking for.


 

 What was your previous amp?


----------



## disastermouse

iancraig10 said:


> No, it's not a noisy amp. What I'm describing is something I listen out for as part of my work so I'm very 'attuned' to it. It's extremely low and only heard on low impedance headphones. I've heard worse from other amps.
> 
> I get rid of it by having attenuation on the headphone socket. Little adapters. That eliminates it.
> 
> ...


 

 How about Planars though? They're low impedence, but very high power demand. I don't hear anything on the Magni. I'm hoping I won't on the Polaris.
  
 Also, USPS just updated! My polaris is in my city!!!! I'm half-tempted to go to bed early so I can wake up and spend more time with it.


----------



## Asr

disastermouse said:


> What are your headphones of choice right now? What does your setup look like? There's not much information in your profile.


 
  
 I have only relatively mid-level gear: Schiit Bifrost 4490 (DAC) and HeadAmp Gilmore Lite (amp) with the Sennheiser HD600, Audio-Technica AD2000 & MSR7, and Yamaha MT220 headphones. A few other mid-level headphones right now too which I won't mention, as they're only temporary for review purposes and I don't intend on keeping them much longer.
  
 I downgraded to this much more basic setup from a high-end electrostatic/dynamic combo setup (electrostatic: Stax OII MKI w/ HeadAmp BHSE; dynamic: Sony Qualia 010, Fostex TH900, et al w/ HeadAmp GS-X MK2) a few years ago and actually don't miss the high-cost gear all that much, which IMO just goes to prove that high-cost gear isn't necessarily the end-all it's often purported to be. The only thing "upgrading" is guaranteed to do is empty your bank account, it won't necessarily bring greater satisfaction for anyone.


----------



## disastermouse

Is like to at least hear the high end DACs to see what sort of difference it really makes. The MB Schiit stuff intrigues me. Ragnarock would be nice just so I could run some KEF LS50s.

Transducer-wise, I'd like to hear HD800s and Ethers. I'm a little torn about where I'd like to go to move up, really. I've heard HD700s at a Best Buy and they were cool. There's someone nearby who has a pair and at some point we'll trade listens with those and my HE-500. The HD700 run only in the $400s at Amazon

JH13 FreqPhase are also interesting. I've never had CIEMS.


----------



## disastermouse

It's here and I'm listening to it! I have HiFiMan HE-500s running on it now. Attenuator off, gain is Medium, Bandwidth is high (that means no roll-off, right?), and output resistance is the lowest setting.
  
 Do those settings sound reasonable?


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> It's here and I'm listening to it! I have HiFiMan HE-500s running on it now. Attenuator off, gain is Medium, Bandwidth is high (that means no roll-off, right?), and output resistance is the lowest setting.
> 
> Do those settings sound reasonable?


 

 Gain and attenuation module depends on where your volume pot is I guess. But other settings look fine to me. Play around with it and find out which sounds the best.


----------



## disastermouse

This is going to sound weird, maybe, but the amp is 'shouty' in low resistance output. I switched to to mid and it's improved a whole lot. Maybe I needed to give my ears some time to adjust? 
  
 (Late Edit Okay, switched resistance back to low, but changed gain to high. Now with the pot between 10 and 11, it sounds great!  
  
 (Later Edit This is...
  
 I think maybe I didn't know what my headphones really sounded like before. It's going to take a while for my ears to burn in.


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> This is going to sound weird, maybe, but the amp is 'shouty' in low resistance output. I switched to to mid and it's improved a whole lot. Maybe I needed to give my ears some time to adjust?
> 
> (Late Edit Okay, switched resistance back to low, but changed gain to high. Now with the pot between 10 and 11, it sounds great!
> 
> ...


 
 My Polaris took 36-48 hours to 'settle in'.


----------



## disastermouse

So this is weird. I'm listening to a song that I know very well. There's a 'ting' metal sound (I think it's a very high xylophone note) used as an accent on one of the beats. I've always heard it, even though it's low, but right now, it's almost like I can hear the shape of the metal that is 'tinging'. Like...I can hear the 'shape' of the sound, or...I can't explain it.


----------



## Luckbad

disastermouse said:


> So this is weird. I'm listening to a song that I know very well. There's a 'ting' metal sound (I think it's a very high xylophone note) used as an accent on one of the beats. I've always heard it, even though it's low, but right now, it's almost like I can hear the shape of the metal that is 'tinging'. Like...I can hear the 'shape' of the sound, or...I can't explain it.




Now you've entered the world of Hi-Fi. No going back now that you've heard it.

Plebians think we're crazy for paying big bucks to covert ones and zeroes then power headphones properly.

They just haven't heard what you've heard.


----------



## disastermouse

howie13 said:


> My Polaris took 36-48 hours to 'settle in'.



Is that hours turned on or hours actually driving headphones?


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> So this is weird. I'm listening to a song that I know very well. There's a 'ting' metal sound (I think it's a very high xylophone note) used as an accent on one of the beats. I've always heard it, even though it's low, but right now, it's almost like I can hear the shape of the metal that is 'tinging'. Like...I can hear the 'shape' of the sound, or...I can't explain it.


 

 Welcome to the G1217 Club


----------



## HOWIE13

disastermouse said:


> Is that hours turned on or hours actually driving headphones?


 
 Driving headphone. I just left it on continuous. It's interesting how the sound altered , bass firmed up and deepened, treble sweetened, mids fully integrated, sound stage widened. Actually, I looked it all up afterwards and was reassured that this is quite normal. You don't need to play the music loud through the cans, low  to medium vol is fine.
 I can fully empathise with you wanting to take every opportunity to listen though-it's a great instrument.


----------



## disastermouse

lvince95 said:


> Welcome to the G1217 Club



A couple more thoughts:

Moving from the HD650 to the HE-500, the soundscape developed resolution, but with the Polaris, again, sounds have shapes. It really evokes an 'I am there' feeling that's pretty disorienting at first.

Secondly, this transportation quality really skews toward analogue or natural instrument sounds - percussion and piano especially - because it really evokes a feeling of location. When everything is 'flatter', it doesn't really matter if the instrument is being played in a real physical location. When I can hear the physical shape of the sound, it renders digital or synthesizer music a bit...less. Maybe not synthesizer as much, but certainly sampled music.

I'm not talking about the shape of the room, I'm more talking about subtle variations in the way sound erupts and fades or subtly changes pitch as it decays.


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> A couple more thoughts:
> 
> Moving from the HD650 to the HE-500, the soundscape developed resolution, but with the Polaris, again, sounds have shapes. It really evokes an 'I am there' feeling that's pretty disorienting at first.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. The tube-like properties of the Polaris will let you hear things differently (assuming you've never heard tubes yet) while still retaining SS characteristics.
  
 The thing about sampled music is intriguing. I've personally never listened to anything other than EDM on my setup (I find other genres too boring). I might listen to some rock maybe, to try to hear the differences you are hearing.


----------



## disastermouse

So...Apparently my Focus-A pads came today too! My HE-500 are darned near comfortable now and the sound is definitely different than the velours (I always hated the pleathers). Also, re: synthesized music, it has different qualities too, it just took a little while for me to hone in on them because they're not as obvious as the sounds of natural percussion and how that's been changed with this amp.


----------



## Mike In Bama

Hi disastermouse!

I haven't been on here in a long time. I have forgotten how to operate everything in this forum.

To answer your question from a couple of days ago, I have never owned another headphone amp. I have a pair of Sony MDR-V7's I bought around 1988. They still work as well as the day I got them but for the $75-100 I payed, they just didn't justify better gear. 

Hoping to put the finishing touch on my hi-fi system, I spoke with many experts with similar tastes on here. After nearly a year of research I felt the Hifiman / Polaris combination would suite me best. 

Last Christmas, the old man in red was very good to me. Here a year later I remain in complete awe of the performance of my setup. Is there a better combo out there for the money? I don't know and I don't care!

My upgrade-itis is cured.


----------



## vapman

Posting this here in case anyone else is interested.
 My only complaint was i didn't want the line out's output to stop when I plugged in headphones.
 Emailed Jeremy today and he wrote back within an hour.
  
 Here is the very elegant solution if anyone is interested in doing this mod to their Polaris:
  


> Yes sir we have a provision for that! If you take the circuit board out of the chassis, flip it over. Under the headphone jack, there are two gold solder tabs with a break in the middle (directly under the headphone jack). One just needs to use a little solder and join each pair of tabs with the break in the middle and it will function as you like.
> 
> You too in 2016! And if you are not able to do the solder work, no worries. Just send it in and we will do it free - just pay shipping back.
> 
> ...


----------



## iamxLn

i wonder if i can order mine like this...


----------



## vapman

iamxln said:


> i wonder if i can order mine like this...


 
 they will do any mod you want, just ask them.
 i found out anything b/w 1.9-3.2v wors for the LED, so im about to buy a color changed rainbow LED.


----------



## iamxLn

right on, post pictures if you do it. i think im going with purple/UV for mine, cnc with black knob


----------



## vapman

iamxln said:


> right on, post pictures if you do it. i think im going with purple/UV for mine, cnc with black knob


 

 I posted a picture of my acrylic/silver knob right after osmeone in here posted a cnc/black.
 i love the acrylic/silver.
 i cant find any rainbow LEDs that arent 3.5-5v so that might be little much for the polaris unfortntaely..


----------



## SoAmusing777

Somebody just asked me if my Polaris has an auto mute feature... anybody know what he's talking about, and if it does?


----------



## vapman

soamusing777 said:


> Somebody just asked me if my Polaris has an auto mute feature... anybody know what he's talking about, and if it does?


 
  
 I'm guessing this person means if the line out's output mutes when headphones are plugged in? if so this is the default behavior of all polarises. if you want it to not auto mute, you have to do the connecting of the two solder pads on bottom for exactly that purpose, and then it won't mute line out when you plug in headphones.
 if this isn't what he/she means i have no idea.


----------



## SoAmusing777

vapman said:


> I'm guessing this person means if the line out's output mutes when headphones are plugged in? if so this is the default behavior of all polarises. if you want it to not auto mute, you have to do the connecting of the two solder pads on bottom for exactly that purpose, and then it won't mute line out when you plug in headphones.
> if this isn't what he/she means i have no idea.


 
 Right I think. This is what he asked - "... the Polaris has the auto mute RCA outs for when I plug in headphones right?" 

 Ah, so it defaults to auto muting? I'm thinking that's what he wants.


----------



## vapman

soamusing777 said:


> Right I think. This is what he asked - "... the Polaris has the auto mute RCA outs for when I plug in headphones right?"
> 
> Ah, so it defaults to auto muting? I'm thinking that's what he wants.


 

 Yup. Unless you specifically requested it not to, or you did the mod yourself, it auto mutes the rca outs when you plug in headphones, yeah.


----------



## SoAmusing777

vapman said:


> Yup. Unless you specifically requested it not to, or you did the mod yourself, it auto mutes the rca outs when you plug in headphones, yeah.


 
 Cool, thank you


----------



## Makiah S

vapman said:


> Posting this here in case anyone else is interested.
> My only complaint was i didn't want the line out's output to stop when I plugged in headphones.
> Emailed Jeremy today and he wrote back within an hour.
> 
> Here is the very elegant solution if anyone is interested in doing this mod to their Polaris:


 
 Yea I've been in touch with Jeremy since I got my Starlight, as a demo a few weeks ago... I wound up buying mine. 
  
 I'm a little ashamed of my self, as I was rather... opposed to their open design for many years, I felt the design was cheap an poorly thought out though I'd never heard one... welp I heard one it had LESS noise than the Enclosed Schiit Vali 2 :/
  
 morale of the story, Jeremy an his team do some awesome work! An are excellent guys to do buisness with!


----------



## vapman

That's the story for me too as well as many other big fans of G1217. a lot of us, me included, dismissed it pretty much immediately, thinking the designs couldn't make any sense... finally found myself reading the product page 100 times over every day for a week and i bought the damn thing, my biggest problem is i want like 5 more G1217 amps now.
  
 if this is how good they can make a solid state amp, i have to hear their tube amps!!!
  
 Come get me when there's a schiit that can hold its own against a G1217!


----------



## Makiah S

vapman said:


> That's the story for me too as well as many other big fans of G1217. a lot of us, me included, dismissed it pretty much immediately, thinking the designs couldn't make any sense... finally found myself reading the product page 100 times over every day for a week and i bought the damn thing, my biggest problem is i want like 5 more G1217 amps now.
> 
> if this is how good they can make a solid state amp, i have to hear their tube amps!!!
> 
> Come get me when there's a schiit that can hold its own against a G1217!


 
 Yea I've got the Vali 2 an sadly it doesn't compare to well,
  
 Yes on one hand the Vali 2 has more power, an can drive a wider range of headphones
 On the other hand it doesn't sound nearly as good with it's stock tube an it's noisy AND it still "pings" when you plug something into it >.> 
  
 Though Honestly if not for me being BROKE I might have tried the Polaris too, I need a good SE Solid State... kinda... honestly though I might just upgrade the Tube in my Starlight an call it a day. My iBasso PB2 does well as a solid state honestly
  
 either way I am curious to hear the Polaris!


----------



## disastermouse

vapman said:


> That's the story for me too as well as many other big fans of G1217. a lot of us, me included, dismissed it pretty much immediately, thinking the designs couldn't make any sense... finally found myself reading the product page 100 times over every day for a week and i bought the damn thing, my biggest problem is i want like 5 more G1217 amps now.
> 
> if this is how good they can make a solid state amp, i have to hear their tube amps!!!
> 
> Come get me when there's a schiit that can hold its own against a G1217!



I was gone from Head-Fi for so long that when I came back, you brave souls had already listened to them and had ringing endorsements.


----------



## Makiah S

disastermouse said:


> I was gone from Head-Fi for so long that when I came back, you brave souls had already listened to them and had *ringing endorsements.*


 
 yea the WAVES of positive feed back are what made me finally bite!


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> Yea I've got the Vali 2 an sadly it doesn't compare to well,
> 
> Yes on one hand the Vali 2 has more power, an can drive a wider range of headphones
> On the other hand it doesn't sound nearly as good with it's stock tube an it's noisy AND it still "pings" when you plug something into it >.>
> ...


 
 When you say the Vali 2 is noisy do you mean prone to outside noise interference, as with mobile phones etc, or do the electronics within the amp inherently create noises?
 PS. EDIT. I've just bought one for my daughter who likes the Vali's appearance.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> When you say the Vali 2 is noisy do you mean prone to outside noise interference, as with mobile phones etc, or do the electronics within the amp inherently create noises?


 
 maybe both, I have the same set up, the same... crap near each of the amps an only the Vali is audibly more noisy than my Starlight
  
 But, the Stock tube of the Vali REALLY sucks, with a swap into a Reflektor 6N23P it got a little less noise, and a better sound!
  
 Ironically, swapping that same tube into my Starlight... left me with a noisy mess XD


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> maybe both, I have the same set up, the same... crap near each of the amps an only the Vali is audibly more noisy than my Starlight
> 
> But, the Stock tube of the Vali REALLY sucks, with a swap into a Reflektor 6N23P it got a little less noise, and a better sound!
> 
> Ironically, swapping that same tube into my Starlight... left me with a noisy mess XD


 
 Thanks for the info. I better check the Vali before I give it to my daughter !


----------



## Kevin.T

Hey guys, I'm having some weird noise issues with my Polaris / LCD-2F chain and I'm wondering if some of you can help me figure this out.

Basically put, there's an intermittent buzzing noise in the drivers of the headphones when connected to this amp. It is not a steady noise: sometimes it's worse and sometimes it's inaudible. This makes it hard to replicate or anticipate, which is all the more frustrating. I've made enough connection switches to determine that it isn't ground loop (and ground loop would be steady). Furthermore, when I move the earcups around or press them slightly against my ears, the buzzing intensifies... it's like I can amplify the noise by physically "exciting" the drivers. Playing music, however, has no effect on this noise. This is leads me to believe it's some sort of interference noise. 

It's definitely not my cellphone, as I've tried putting it 2 inches away and 6 feet away, and it doesn't make a difference. Rather, my DAC seems to be the main offender. (It's a Peachtree DAC-iT X connected to a Macbook Air via USB.) When the amp is near the DAC (and we're talking up to 2 feet here), that's when the parasitic noise seems to be most present. I know it's not in the signal path though, because even if I unplug the RCA from the amp when this happens, the noise remains.

The noise itself has a very weird behavior. Like I said, it's amplified when I move the earcups on my head. Sometimes I'll do this and the noise will gradually fade away after a couple seconds. Then it will come back minutes later. It comes and goes without me physically moving the amp or the DAC. I've tried the amp and phones with only a CD player (removing the DAC from the room altogether) and there's still noise, only less. I've also tried plugging only the amp/phones in my bedroom, with no other electronics in proximity, and the noise seemed mostly absent. When I first plugged it, I could hear the noise slightly, but couldn't replicate it after a several minutes. Could this be residual energy/interference... Is there even such a thing?

This noise is totally absent when I use a Burson Soloist in the chain instead. On the other hand, this noise is also absent if I use my Grado SR-225i with the Polaris. This is something that only seems to happen with the LCD-2F connected to the Project Polaris.

I'll mention that I've used the Polaris extensively with my pre-Fazor LCD-2 and my CD player (didn't have the DAC back then), and I never had this problem before. The LCD-2 have since been repaired and Fazor'd by Audeze and now I'm having this issue. I'm also experiencing the occasional driver flexing noise (when connected to the Burson Soloist).

I think this pretty much sums it up. I'll probably write to Jeremy about this, but wanted to check with you guys first. Any input would be appreciated, thanks!


----------



## vapman

How many outlets have you tried?


----------



## Kevin.T

vapman said:


> How many outlets have you tried?




I've tried two outlets.

I've tried one in the office (the only one that's close to my desk). First, I tried with the amp plugged in a power strip (only gear of the same chain being connected here: computer, DAC, CD player). Then I tried removing the power strip and plugging the amp directly into the outlet. No difference. 

The second one is in my bedroom, where there are no electronics. Bear in mind that there's no way I could move the whole setup in my room, because there is no room for gear or for a chair, heh.


----------



## vapman

kevin.t said:


> I've tried two outlets.
> 
> I've tried one in the office (the only one that's close to my desk). First, I tried with the amp plugged in a power strip (only gear of the same chain being connected here: computer, DAC, CD player). Then I tried removing the power strip and plugging the amp directly into the outlet. No difference.
> 
> The second one is in my bedroom, where there are no electronics. Bear in mind that there's no way I could move the whole setup in my room, because there is no room for gear or for a chair, heh.


 

 I don't suppose you have another compatible PSU do you?
 48V isn't exactly a voltage everyone has spares of though.


----------



## Kevin.T

vapman said:


> I don't suppose you have another compatible PSU do you?
> 48V isn't exactly a voltage everyone has spares of though.




No, I don't have another one on hand. But it did cross my mind that the PSU could be the actual culprit. If I can get my hand on one without too much hassle, I'll give that a try. If it's too hard/expensive to get one, I'll mention it to Jeremy so he can weigh in.

Thanks!

EDIT: On second thought, I'll just run it by Jeremy so he can advise me on a good, compatible PSU. Thanks again!


----------



## Rudiger

I have exactly the same problem, weird noise when i press my headphones !
What psu Jeremy advise ? (Live in France, 220 V)


----------



## vapman

rudiger said:


> I have exactly the same problem, weird noise when i press my headphones !
> What psu Jeremy advise ? (Live in France, 220 V)




The stock one is a very good brand... I have been using mean well power supplies for audio for a long time. I've just never had these noise issues with my amp.

Only one time I had any noise issue and it ended up being a poorly fitting 3.5mm>1/4" adapter, replaced it, no issues since.


----------



## mowgli-kun

Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of buying a Project Polaris, but I'm having last minute doubts since this will be my first big non-headphone audio purchase
  
 Do you have any other headphone amplifiers in the $300 range that you'd suggest I consider before I go for the Polaris?
  
 I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.


----------



## vapman

mowgli-kun said:


> Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of buying a Project Polaris, but I'm having last minute doubts since this will be my first big non-headphone audio purchase
> 
> Do you have any other headphone amplifiers in the $300 range that you'd suggest I consider before I go for the Polaris?
> 
> I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.


 

 The Wire is a pretty cool amp but I think you can't really beat the Polaris for the price!
 so many features and great sound and tons of power.


----------



## Tunkejazz

mowgli-kun said:


> I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.


 
 The Polaris is the first SS amp that I can listen too for a long period, and with the bandwidth switch you can remove any undesired glare in the upper end of the spectrum.
  It is quite a fun amp, and it sounds splendid. I hope you like it if you finally decide to go for it!


----------



## Kevin.T

mowgli-kun said:


> Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of buying a Project Polaris, but I'm having last minute doubts since this will be my first big non-headphone audio purchase
> 
> Do you have any other headphone amplifiers in the $300 range that you'd suggest I consider before I go for the Polaris?
> 
> I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.




I'll add to the praise: the Polaris is one hell of an amp. It sounds incredible, and not just "for its price". The power ratings and flexibility it offers make this an amp that punches way above its class. The noise issue I'm mentioning above? Keep in mind that I'm trying to fix this while I have a perfectly working Burson Soloist on hand. I'll let you guess which one I prefer in my setup.


----------



## mowgli-kun

vapman said:


> The Wire is a pretty cool amp but I think you can't really beat the Polaris for the price!
> so many features and great sound and tons of power.


 
  
  


tunkejazz said:


> The Polaris is the first SS amp that I can listen too for a long period, and with the bandwidth switch you can remove any undesired glare in the upper end of the spectrum.
> It is quite a fun amp, and it sounds splendid. I hope you like it if you finally decide to go for it!


 
  
  


kevin.t said:


> I'll add to the praise: the Polaris is one hell of an amp. It sounds incredible, and not just "for its price". The power ratings and flexibility it offers make this an amp that punches way above its class. The noise issue I'm mentioning above? Keep in mind that I'm trying to fix this while I have a perfectly working Burson Soloist on hand. I'll let you guess which one I prefer in my setup.


 
  
 Thanks guys! Decided to go for the Polaris; looking forward to receiving my first good headphone amp!
  
 Also, for anyone thinking of buying the Project Polaris, the aluminum chassis are currently out of stock, so if you order a Polaris w/ aluminum chassis, they will send you the amp with the acrylic chassis and ship you the aluminum chassis once it becomes available.
  
 Tl;dr- For a limited time, you get the acrylic chassis for free if you order the aluminum Polaris. Link here.


----------



## bixby

mowgli-kun said:


> Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of buying a Project Polaris, but I'm having last minute doubts since this will be my first big non-headphone audio purchase
> 
> Do you have any other headphone amplifiers in the $300 range that you'd suggest I consider before I go for the Polaris?
> 
> I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.


 

 I have a Polaris coming and can give you my opinion after it gets here.  My most recent amp was an Asgard 2, which I felt to be a little soft overall.  Hoping the Polaris has faster transient attack and not quite as laid back overall.  I have had some OTL amps in the $300 range like the Darkvoice.  I don't want to go back there...........As for others the Yulong D200 was a loser as was the My Zic.  Upscale the Lake People g109 is not bad but the Asgard has better highs.  Hope this "one mans opinion" helps a bit


----------



## lvince95

bixby said:


> I have a Polaris coming and can give you my opinion after it gets here.  My most recent amp was an Asgard 2, which I felt to be a little soft overall.  Hoping the Polaris has faster transient attack and not quite as laid back overall.  I have had some OTL amps in the $300 range like the Darkvoice.  I don't want to go back there...........As for others the Yulong D200 was a loser as was the My Zic.  Upscale the Lake People g109 is not bad but the Asgard has better highs.  Hope this "one mans opinion" helps a bit


 

 I had both and the polaris was much better than the asgard.


----------



## braaam

lvince95 said:


> I had both and the polaris was much better than the asgard.




Can anyone explain how the Polaris is "much better" than for instance an Asgard 2? I mean soundwise - I can see that it wins on the features. I haven't seen any comparisons that break it up into properties like PRAT, frequency response, high/low extension, noisefloor, etc. I'd really like to know!


----------



## vapman

I never owned an asgard but I can tell you the Polaris is the ONLY non tube amp I know of that has such a relaxed yet detailed sound. It Is truly a charm.

I have owned tube headphone amps that the Polaris walks all over.

I may buy a tube g1217 amp. They are very impressive. My boss was preamp shopping and bought a krell. He regretted it when I brought my Polaris in. I still haven't told him what they sell for


----------



## lvince95

braaam said:


> Can anyone explain how the Polaris is "much better" than for instance an Asgard 2? I mean soundwise - I can see that it wins on the features. I haven't seen any comparisons that break it up into properties like PRAT, frequency response, high/low extension, noisefloor, etc. I'd really like to know!


 

 If you want to compare specs, you could do it directly from their websites. But from my experience so far in this hobby, specs are not everything. You can take a look at the HiFi DAC for example. Yes, they have good chips like the Sabre ES9018, but do they sound as good as well implemented and designed DACs? No.
  
 In terms of features, the Polaris walks all over the Asgard (sounds fanboy-ish, but it's really the truth). In terms of power, the Polaris also walks over the Asgard. In fact, the Magni 2 also beats the Asgard 2 in this respect. 
  
 As for sound quality, the Polaris is something difficult to describe. It retains most of it's SS characteristics, but has a smooth edge to its sound at the same time. Non-fatiguing but precise at the same time. Vocals on the Polaris just sound much more lovely and lusher with the Polaris because of it's special characteristic. You can take vocal heavy songs like the Titanic theme from Celine Dion to A/B the differences. As long as you have decent hearing, I'm pretty sure you can discern the difference between the Polaris and the Asgard that way.
  
 I'm actually just going to stop here, as I do not have my Asgard anymore. Anything more will be based on my memory, which is unreliable. Never make comparisons based on memory, because it is very unreliable and is not a credible source.
  
 All I can say with utmost certainty is that the Polaris left me with a very favorable impression after spending lots of time with it. The Asgard 2, on the other hand, did no such thing for me. My reaction to receiving the Polaris was to sell the Asgard 2. This is not to say the Asgard wasn't good - the Polaris was just better in almost every way to me.


----------



## braaam

Thanks vapman and Ivince95 for taking the time to describe your experiences. Sound is a very personal thing indeed, but I can see now what attracts you in the Polaris. 

I've invested my money in a Gustard H10 for now but will keep a keen eye on the Polaris.


----------



## vapman

Didn't know where else to post this. New amp for my Polaris to drive


----------



## Tunkejazz

A power amp?


----------



## vapman

tunkejazz said:


> A power amp?


 

 Yep, for non-headphones time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/hafler/dh-500.shtml
  
 It replaced a Yamaha M4 which died last night. RIP
  
 When I use the Polaris for stereo listening, I activate the two output gain jumpers. punchier sound, more importantly the volume knob responds far better. it just doesn't come on at all below 9 oclock.
  
 Anyway... I have been using my 250 ohm DT990 on low resistance. It's good!! I like giving my headphones lots of watts to work with, and I guess my power amps too 'cause I just doubled my stereo's wattage.
  
 Edit: I have already improved the wiring from the pitiful stock wiring. Gonna replace the power cable with a nicer one or a IEC jack probably next weekend. But, that's all off topic.


----------



## mandrake50

vapman said:


> Yep, for non-headphones time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have one that I recapped a few months ago. With Speaker taps to the HE 560  or many others, it is really quite nice. Obviously the max power ability will not be used...EVER.. or the loss of the headphones and maybe one's ears would be the result. Of course it cannot provide the rated power into 50+ Ohms, but still. I have been driving it from an Oppo 105 D using a network share. I have yet to try it using the  Polaris as a preamp... I may have to do that one day.
  
 I have been looking at some of the updated driver boards and "better" output transistors.. the thing is a bit long in the tooth. Caps should definitely be replaced... other stuff optional.  It does sound so nice with all of the caps replaced with new electrolytics and audio grade caps in other places.


----------



## jbarrentine

mowgli-kun said:


> Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of buying a Project Polaris, but I'm having last minute doubts since this will be my first big non-headphone audio purchase
> 
> Do you have any other headphone amplifiers in the $300 range that you'd suggest I consider before I go for the Polaris?
> 
> I currently own a HD600, and plan to buy to a ZMF Omni/ LFF Slant & HD800s in the future. I'm looking for a smooth-sounding amplifier with pre-amp output.


 
  
 I have the polaris with the HD600 (and music streamer II+) and it sounds wonderful. I wouldn't hesitate in the least. My own next  upgrade would have to be way up the chain (Violectric V200?) to feel I was actually moving up, and even then I wonder how the Violectric would compare.


----------



## NoahDalal

Hey, i have the HD 650 with the xonar STX and i looking for improve for the sound so how much the polaris amp are better then the stx? 
 and if buy the polaris how i connect it with the stx dac?


----------



## vapman

noahdalal said:


> Hey, i have the HD 650 with the xonar STX and i looking for improve for the sound so how much the polaris amp are better then the stx?


 
  
 Night and day.
  


> and if buy the polaris how i connect it with the stx dac?


 
 i might be wrong, i looked at the Xonar STX on google images and it looks like it has RCA line out (red+white). simply plug a RCA cable from there to the input of the project polaris... done.


----------



## NoahDalal

True there is a connection for RCA but my speakers are connected there. 
 so this is the only way to connect the stx with the polaris? 
 and about the the chassis there any difference on the sound with the acrylic vs aluminum?


----------



## TraceStar

noahdalal said:


> True there is a connection for RCA but my speakers are connected there.
> so this is the only way to connect the stx with the polaris?
> and about the the chassis there any difference on the sound with the acrylic vs aluminum?




You can connect the stx to Polaris using rca and connect your speakers to the Polaris rca output. Basically you'd get a pre amp for your speakers too  Anyway when your headphones are plugged in, the rca out would be muted. When you pull out your headphone plug, audio will go to your speakers.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## vapman

That is how I use my Polaris. DAC goes into polaris by rca, power amp connected to line out, mute the line out with headphones.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I liken my Polaris to a *(Pseudo-)Tubed Amp on Steroids*. It's *not* a tubed of course -- it's SS with a touch of tube-like distortion, but with the power, slam, and accuracy of SS. Probably the best bargain in HP amps around. Loaded with adjustable settings, without the hassles of tube-rolling and miniature fireworks....


----------



## Luckbad

canadianmaestro said:


> I liken my Polaris to a *(Pseudo-)Tubed Amp on Steroids*. It's *not* a tubed of course -- it's SS with a touch of tube-like distortion, but with the power, slam, and accuracy of SS. Probably the best bargain in HP amps around. Loaded with adjustable settings, without the hassles of tube-rolling and miniature fireworks....


 
  
 Pretty frickin' accurate! If I didn't get addicted to tube rolling, I'd still have my Polaris. Instead, I have a Sunrise III and an Ember II on the way. Incredible kit for the price from Garage1217.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

luckbad said:


> Pretty frickin' accurate! If I didn't get addicted to tube rolling, I'd still have my Polaris. Instead, I have a Sunrise III and an Ember II on the way. Incredible kit for the price from Garage1217.


 

 which is better all-round -- Sunrise or Ember? Stock tubes adequate on either?


----------



## Luckbad

canadianmaestro said:


> which is better all-round -- Sunrise or Ember? Stock tubes adequate on either?


 
  
 Depends a lot on your chain. The Ember is more dynamic and has a flatter response. The Sunrise has a slightly smoother and more tube-like response. Both can be significantly altered with tubes. The Ember is much more versatile than the Sunrise as well.
  
 The stock tubes aren't normally adequate in my opinion (Jeremy assumes you're going to tube roll), but he has a special right now for some solid RCA Cleartop 12AU7 tubes.
  
 If you end up picking one up, let me know and I could sell you some tubes he sold me a couple months ago for less than you'd get them otherwise. I rolled them until I settled on a couple options that I personally prefer.


----------



## vapman

canadianmaestro said:


> which is better all-round -- Sunrise or Ember? Stock tubes adequate on either?


 

 I'm going to step in here and say G1217 is one of the few companies I _would_ use the stock tubes. They are hardcore tube rollers themselves and if you enjoy rolling tubes just mention it to them and they'd be more than happy to talk tubes. I might upgrade them but I don't think they're going to be trash? (well maybe they are according to @Luckbad)
  
 I have never owned a sunrise or ember (or any tube G1217 for that matter), however a tube G1217 is likely my next amp purchase.
  
 I would probably personally get an Ember as it can put out up to 2.4w max whereas the Sunrise puts out up to barely over 1w max.


----------



## Luckbad

vapman said:


> I'm going to step in here and say G1217 is one of the few companies I _would_ use the stock tubes. They are hardcore tube rollers themselves and if you enjoy rolling tubes just mention it to them and they'd be more than happy to talk tubes. I might upgrade them but I don't think they're going to be trash? (well maybe they are according to @Luckbad)
> 
> I have never owned a sunrise or ember (or any tube G1217 for that matter), however a tube G1217 is likely my next amp purchase.
> 
> I would probably personally get an Ember as it can put out up to 2.4w max whereas the Sunrise puts out up to barely over 1w max.


 
  
 Nah, they aren't trash at all (normal stock tubes). You can just upgrade the sound for $15-$20 quite easily. The normal stock tubes are solid all-rounders and are inexpensive to buy in big lots, which is why he usually includes them.


----------



## vapman

Ah makes sense. I imagined they were cheap enough you wouldn't feel bad rolling them/they wouldn't impact the product price too much, but if I got one i'd probably find some new tubes to use in it just cause.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

^ Good chat.  Not a tube-roller, I am a hardcore SS amp'er.  Used to have WA7 and WA6, along with an MP301 Mk3. Fun but just not fulfilling in the long run.
  
 Does Sunrise get say,  75% of Ember (SQ)? 80%? 1W is plenty to drive my HE560 and 650.
  
 cheers


----------



## HOWIE13

I'm sure if you let Jeremy know your musical tastes, cans and the sort of sound signature you prefer he will do his level best to provide you with a suitable 'stock' tube.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

howie13 said:


> I'm sure if you let Jeremy know your musical tastes, cans and the sort of sound signature you prefer he will do his level best to provide you with a suitable 'stock' tube.


 

 obviously not a stock tube on your avatar...


----------



## HOWIE13

canadianmaestro said:


> obviously not a stock tube on your avatar...


 
 HA HA That's true enough! I don't think Jeremy does many of those.
 I think I got a nice 6N6P though.


----------



## Luckbad

canadianmaestro said:


> ^ Good chat.  Not a tube-roller, I am a hardcore SS amp'er.  Used to have WA7 and WA6, along with an MP301 Mk3. Fun but just not fulfilling in the long run.
> 
> Does Sunrise get say,  75% of Ember (SQ)? 80%? 1W is plenty to drive my HE560 and 650.
> 
> cheers




The Sunrise is a different animal. It's slightly softer sounding and less dynamic than the Ember, but has more tube sweetness.

Imagine the Sunrise as ranging from the middle and most rolled off setting of the Polaris plus some extra tube flavor. The Ember ranges from true neutral to the middle setting of the Polaris plus some extra tube sweetness.

Ember sounds more like tubes than Polaris, Sunrise sounds more like tubes than Ember.

I've owned all three.

I initially settled on Sunrise but now I also have an Ember coming. 

I might eventually get another Polaris (maybe if they release a v2?).


----------



## CanadianMaestro

^ Got it, thanks. Sounds like Sunrise may be the next one for me. But not now...just upgraded my power amp on the floor system. End-game achieved.


----------



## CobraTaco

I'm looking for a Dac/Amp setup to upgrade from my onboard. I listen to EDM music and primarily use Etymotic IEMs, Beyer DT 770 pro 80ohm, and soon to be TH-X00.
  
 My research has led me to these options:
  
 1.) Schiit Uber stack *~$300*
 2.) Grace m9xx *~$500*
 3.) Polaris + Dac(what dac u guys recommend?) *~$280 + dac*
  
*Which setup gives me the best value?*
 This will be a desktop setup so I don't think i need the portability with the m9xx.
 Did anyone do the DIY polaris kit? seems like a fun project but the 5year warranty on the pre-built is appealing.
 I'm really leaning towards the polaris because i love the bandwidth options for taming my beyers. So any recommended DACs to use with it?
  
 The limit for my Amp/Dac budget is $500
 Should i allocate more for the amp than dac? or vice versa? Am i thinking in the right direction getting a Polaris ~280 + ~200 dac? Is that good budget allocation?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

cobrataco said:


> I'm looking for a Dac/Amp setup to upgrade from my onboard. I listen to EDM music and primarily use Etymotic IEMs, Beyer DT 770 pro 80ohm, and soon to be TH-X00.
> 
> My research has led me to these options:
> 
> ...


 
  
 imo, Polaris + DAC is very good value. Have never used it with IEMs, but I suspect it should be OK. As for a DAC, I've used a TEAC UD-H01 in the past; it can be bought on the resale market for about $150 YMMV. Haven't heard any of the Schiit DACs, but their are threads here on HF that will help you.
  
 http://www.teac.com/product/ud-h01/overview/


----------



## vapman

Like i've said many times there are tons of dacs based on the AK4396 and I own a DAC which is 11 years old and uses this chip. still sounds great. in fact it is my preferred DAC with the polaris. never tried anything far out of its price range yet, but it sounds real nice and is cheap. schitt uses it even.


----------



## bixby

cobrataco said:


> I'm looking for a Dac/Amp setup to upgrade from my onboard. I listen to EDM music and primarily use Etymotic IEMs, Beyer DT 770 pro 80ohm, and soon to be TH-X00.
> 
> My research has led me to these options:
> 
> ...


 
 I feel given your budget that #3 is the best option, not only for sound, but value.
  
 The Polaris is an order of magnitude above the Schiit amp, for example.  Have not heard the grace.  And having gone down the budget dac and amp route, I feel the amp is most important of the two to overall sound.
  
 For dacs in the under $300 range, there are not many that are killer values like the Polaris.  If I were you I would either save up another $100 and get the Schiit 4490 bifrost or wait until one comes used or something else pops up around $300.  In the meantime, I would put something like a lower cost usb stick dac for now.  I might even take a gamble on a hifimediy sabre based one.
  
 Good luck with your quest and let us know what you decide and how it sounds.
  
 Other than that a used HRT Musicstreamer II+ is not a bad choice.


----------



## milosingh

Get the Polaris and an ODAC. 

Nothing is audibly more transparent than the ODAC. No need to spend more.


----------



## bixby

milosingh said:


> Get the Polaris and an ODAC.
> 
> Nothing is audibly more transparent than the ODAC. No need to spend more.


 
 hahahaha


----------



## CobraTaco

Milo if that were true why would there be a massive market for DACs more than 200$?
 I'm pretty new to this stuff but objectively that just doesn't make sense


----------



## vapman

cobrataco said:


> Milo if that were true why would there be a massive market for DACs more than 200$?
> I'm pretty new to this stuff but objectively that just doesn't make sense


 

 some people claim to be "DAC-deaf", some people it makes a lot of difference.
  
 for me i only need to spend $100 to get a DAC where I can't hear any improvement until say the $600 mark - i used to have my bar set at about double that but with the introduction of the Chord Mojo the "next step up" is more affordable 
  
 even then i think i am kind of "dac deaf", the exception being if it really sucks (built in laptop/motherboard vs. a halfway decent usb dac)


----------



## CobraTaco

Well thanks for the advice guys, I'm going to pick up a Polaris for sure then. I actually love the look of the caps and resistors under the acrylic (from the pics I've seen).
 Although, looks like I still have some research to do DAC-wise


----------



## bixby

cobrataco said:


> Well thanks for the advice guys, I'm going to pick up a Polaris for sure then. I actually love the look of the caps and resistors under the acrylic (from the pics I've seen).
> Although, looks like I still have some research to do DAC-wise


 
 Here is a tip, if you plan ot use your iems and they are say 98db/mw efficient or more, order an extra higher input attenuation attenuator.  This is designed to work with uber efficient iems and only costs several $ extra.  With the normal one, you will never get the volume past 9 o'clock otherwise.  With the iem attenuator installed you can get up to 12 o'clock with a 98 db/mw can.  Only problem is if you switch from cans a lot to the iems, you have to remove the top to swap the attenuator.
  
  
 Good luck.


----------



## senorx12562

cobrataco said:


> Well thanks for the advice guys, I'm going to pick up a Polaris for sure then. I actually love the look of the caps and resistors under the acrylic (from the pics I've seen).
> Although, looks like I still have some research to do DAC-wise




I'm currently using the Emotiva Big Ego in my desktop setup, and really enjoying the sound. It was on sale for $179 when I got it, and it's a deal. Might be back to 219 now though. Having used it, I'd pay that too.


----------



## mandrake50

cobrataco said:


> Milo if that were true why would there be a massive market for DACs more than 200$?
> I'm pretty new to this stuff but objectively that just doesn't make sense


 

 None of this stuff is all that objective though. No one will be impressed when you tell them you have a $200 ODAC...
 However, for the price the ODAC does a decent job. Especially as a starting (or maybe ending) point.
 I have accumulated a bunch of gear, but for  use at work or travelling the ODAC is just fine. I am using the ODAC and Polaris as I write this.
 An ODAC and O2  were what I used for a good while before my obsessive compulsive behavior set in and forced me to start reading Headfi threads... again.
  
 In any case, it pretty much fits into the OP budget and would be worth a look.  It doesn't lock him in to that configuration forever...
  
 I am always curious about how it happens that people will say that they have a budget for gear of X and it never fails that people tell them to spend X+100 or 200 or...
  
 off soapbox now..


----------



## TSD13

vapman said:


> for me i only need to spend $100 to get a DAC where I can't hear any improvement until say the $600 mark - i used to have my bar set at about double that but with the introduction of the Chord Mojo the "next step up" is more affordable


 
  
 Just curious, what's the reason for the Mojo vs Bifrost MB?


----------



## CobraTaco

Well i took the plunge boys.
  
 -Acrylic Polaris with purple UV light (hoping it looks good on the acrylic)
 -Schiit Modi 2 Uber 
  
 I went with the schiit because I got it in B-stock for $145 shipped which seems like a good deal. And I read somewhere it's comparable to a "mini bifrost".
 So hopefully I'll remember to come post my impressions before I ascend into audio heaven


----------



## iamxLn

cobrataco said:


> Well i took the plunge boys.
> 
> -Acrylic Polaris with purple UV light (hoping it looks good on the acrylic)
> -Schiit Modi 2 Uber
> ...


 
 post some pictures! that's the set up i'm going for too.


----------



## CobraTaco

I ordered them both earlier this afternoon so with any luck hopefully I get them both by next week.
 Wait pics? Does that mean I have to clean my desk


----------



## vapman

cobrataco said:


> I ordered them both earlier this afternoon so with any luck hopefully I get them both by next week.
> Wait pics? Does that mean I have to clean my desk


 

 I got mine 3 days after placing the order.
 not after it was finished building... after i placed the order.


----------



## mandrake50

cobrataco said:


> Well i took the plunge boys.
> 
> -Acrylic Polaris with purple UV light (hoping it looks good on the acrylic)
> -Schiit Modi 2 Uber
> ...


 

 I used exactly that for a good while. It brought many smiles to my face. I ended up ordering the AL chassis plates later,  I like the extra weight, but do miss the view of the board.  I am pretty sure you will be happy with the setup.
 Jeremy is usually pretty fast. I ordered an Ember from him Tuesday evening. It is scheduled to be here tomorrow.
 A nice story. I screwed up my Sunrise III. Long sad story, but my fault I think. He told me if I paid the shipping, he would fix it for the price of any parts that are required.
 I couldn't have expected any better outcome. He is good people for sure !!!


----------



## bixby

Nighttime listening.  Purple seems more blue here than real life.
  
 Click to make larger


----------



## CobraTaco

I ordered the Schiit and the Polaris at the same time. (Thurs Afternoon)
  
 The schiit just printed the shipping label - using USPS priority mail - ETA Mon-Tues
 The Polaris is already shipped - using USPS 2-Day priority mail - ETA Sun
  
 The Polaris is coming from Arizona and the Schiit from California. I live in Texas
 So it looks like ill be initially using my On-board with the Polaris lol
  
 I'm actually surprised that Jeremy got my order ready and shipped before schiit. I figured schiit being a bigger company would have their processes more streamlined. Guess Jeremy is really on top of his schiit  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 On a side now I just got accepted to my electrical engineering college (Texas aggie woot woot)!!! I've always nerded out over clean circuit boards and the Symmetry of the Polaris really gets those juices flowing. I really wanted to do the DIY kit but the 5year warranty for like $30 was too good to pass up.
  
 Bixby that looks amazing. Gives me an ominous or sinister feel to it in the dark. So cool


----------



## vapman

> Originally Posted by *CobraTaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm actually surprised that Jeremy got my order ready and shipped before schiit. I figured schiit being a bigger company would have their processes more streamlined. Guess Jeremy is really on top of his schiit


 
  
 The best part is Jeremy didn't just get your order ready - _he built the whole thing in that time_.
  
 I doubt Schiit turned on the soldering station as soon as you placed your order?


----------



## CobraTaco

Is Jeremy really NwAvGuy in desguise?!?!?


----------



## lvince95

vapman said:


> The best part is Jeremy didn't just get your order ready - _he built the whole thing in that time_.
> 
> I doubt Schiit turned on the soldering station as soon as you placed your order?


 

 That's not a really good comparison to make to be honest. Schiit is much bigger and has many more orders coming in a day, while g1217 is just a small 3 man team and has considerably less orders to take care of.
  
 But yes, Jeremy is really dedicated and super quick.


----------



## CobraTaco

Lol why am I not surprised to see the doge here. Do you have a polaris doge? What's ur desktop setup?
 Turns out i gave up on the M9xx and got a modi2U + polaris


----------



## lvince95

cobrataco said:


> Lol why am I not surprised to see the doge here. Do you have a polaris doge? What's ur desktop setup?
> Turns out i gave up on the M9xx and got a modi2U + polaris


 

 I don't have my full size cans on display right now


----------



## CobraTaco

Polaris AND a grace?!?! RIP your wallet LOL I assume you're pre-amping out to the polaris so just using the DAC of the grace?
 I like the black/silver color scheme. Did you replace the keycaps on your macbook?
  
 Once I get mine we can have a polaris setup showdown!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (although others in the thread may have already won)


----------



## lvince95

cobrataco said:


> Polaris AND a grace?!?! RIP your wallet LOL I assume you're pre-amping out to the polaris so just using the DAC of the grace?
> I like the black/silver color scheme. Did you replace the keycaps on your macbook?
> 
> Once I get mine we can have a polaris setup showdown!
> ...


 

 My wallet died a long time ago >.<
  
 Yeah I'm using the m9XX as a DAC only for now. And nope, it's just a keyboard cover which shows all of the key shortcuts for Mac (pretty useful).


----------



## Felnah

Anyone else have any experience with hum from the amp? I have some really low volume hum coming from it when using it with my MT220's, but I don't know if that is because of the amp or because of te STX II that I'm using as a DAC. It would make sense considering the MT220 hummed on the STX's headphone out (surprisingly only on 44.1kHz sample rate,) while my DT770/80 don't hum on either. Asking because I have no way of testing them with another source atm.
  
 Hum is low enough that it's only noticable on tracks with near silence in parts of the track, while music is playing it sounds great.


----------



## Luckbad

felnah said:


> Anyone else have any experience with hum from the amp? I have some really low volume hum coming from it when using it with my MT220's, but I don't know if that is because of the amp or because of te STX II that I'm using as a DAC. It would make sense considering the MT220 hummed on the STX's headphone out (surprisingly only on 44.1kHz sample rate,) while my DT770/80 don't hum on either. Asking because I have no way of testing them with another source atm.
> 
> Hum is low enough that it's only noticable on tracks with near silence in parts of the track, while music is playing it sounds great.




Ask Jeremy. It could be an issue with your power that can best be corrected with a power conditioner/filter.


----------



## bixby

felnah said:


> Anyone else have any experience with hum from the amp? I have some really low volume hum coming from it when using it with my MT220's, but I don't know if that is because of the amp or because of te STX II that I'm using as a DAC. It would make sense considering the MT220 hummed on the STX's headphone out (surprisingly only on 44.1kHz sample rate,) while my DT770/80 don't hum on either. Asking because I have no way of testing them with another source atm.
> 
> Hum is low enough that it's only noticable on tracks with near silence in parts of the track, while music is playing it sounds great.


 
 most likely a ground loop or induced emi problem that most power conditioners will not fix.  You may have to try replacing  cables, re-routing cables and physically moving components to see if that will cure.  Sometimes the source like a computer can be at issue and then you could try another or the cables leading from it.  These type of gremlins are hard to track down, but trying the above suggestions can help you isolate it to find a solution.


----------



## HOWIE13

bixby said:


> most likely a ground loop or induced emi problem that most power conditioners will not fix.  You may have to try replacing  cables, re-routing cables and physically moving components to see if that will cure.  Sometimes the source like a computer can be at issue and then you could try another or the cables leading from it.  These type of gremlins are hard to track down, but trying the above suggestions can help you isolate it to find a solution.


 
 A problem I am increasingly finding is that although 3 pin UK plugs are wired for earthing into the mains wall plug socket the AC/DC transformer isn't internally wired for the earth even though it has the 3 pins connector.That can produce loud hums.
 It may be worthwhile trying a different power supply.


----------



## vapman

Even just a different power cable.
I use the stock PSU with a power punch power cable.
Noticably better over stock. Unless you are going linear it doesn't get much better than the stock PSU.


----------



## Felnah

I'm fairly certain it is either the STX that is affected by my GPU or the fact that the wiring in this house is very old, and only specific sockets are grounded. (I'm assuming a grounded extension plugged into an un-grounded wall socket doesn't actually do anything.) Could also be from my monitor as it's situated right under it at the moment because of space issues, together with wires running everywhere. It's currently plugged into a extension cord together with all my other gear. I'm looking to space stuff out over more sockets, but I won't be able to do that until I move my desk around.
  
 The hum is worse on startup and gets less and less offensive as the unit warms up. (I assume that's why anyway.)
  
 I live in Norway so I have a Belkin branded europlug, don't know how much better that is compared to the stock US plug though.
  
 On a side note, if I was to get a different DAC, what would be the most bang for buck? Feel free to list several as I'd prefer to be able to buy it in Norway.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

felnah said:


> I live in Norway so I have a Belkin branded europlug, don't know how much better that is compared to the stock US plug though.


 

 I used to own an MP301 Mk-3 tubed amp. It had a hum. Acquired an Emotiva CMX-2 (power filter/cond) for about $90. Plugged it into the CMX, along with my source. Hum gone.


----------



## Felnah

canadianmaestro said:


> I used to own an MP301 Mk-3 tubed amp. It had a hum. Acquired an Emotiva CMX-2 (power filter/cond) for about $90. Plugged it into the CMX, along with my source. Hum gone.


 
 Will a powerfilter work from an ungrounded socket? Otherwise that seems like a smart investment, might have to import though. The only powerfilters I can find in Norway cost 300-500USD and are 6-8 sockets. Might be able to find something else if I look around more.
  
 EDIT: I lied. I can probably find cheaper ones with the same functionality. Question about ungrounded socket still stands though.


----------



## NoahDalal

I just want to order the polaris what should i take the aluminum or the acrylic? the mellow or the aggressive bandwitdth? 
 and what cable rca recommended for connected the polaris to the stx?


----------



## Felnah

noahdalal said:


> I just want to order the polaris what should i take the aluminum or the acrylic? the mellow or the aggressive bandwitdth?
> and what cable rca recommended for connected the polaris to the stx?


 
 Acrylic and aluminium are purely up to your own tastes. I got the acrylic and I think it looks great, I don't know if there is any difference in interference and whatever between the two. I have the mellow version, but I have not tried to actually change bandwidth yet. Haven't had a need for it. The difference is that aggressive cuts the high frequencies more aggressively than the mellow version. If you look at the chart at the bottom of the Polaris page on garage1217's website you can see the difference.
  
 I bought some Monster RCA cables, they are probably overkill and mostly not worth it, but I figured why not. Most consumer grade cables should be fine unless they are of obvious bad quality.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

felnah said:


> Will a powerfilter work from an ungrounded socket? Otherwise that seems like a smart investment, might have to import though. The only powerfilters I can find in Norway cost 300-500USD and are 6-8 sockets.  Question about ungrounded socket still stands though.


 
 Not sure about Euro plug sockets. Here in NA, an ungrounded outlet will *not provide surge protection*. I think you would need to find a way of grounding the CMX bar.
  
 Read thru this thread:
 http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/should-i-even-bother-with-a-power-conditioner-with-ungrounded-outlets.228182/
  
 Keep in mind, that's an American site.


----------



## bixby

noahdalal said:


> I just want to order the polaris what should i take the aluminum or the acrylic? the mellow or the aggressive bandwitdth?
> and what cable rca recommended for connected the polaris to the stx?


 
EDIT:  My statement on the next line is incorrect and corrected by Vapman a few posts below!  Sorry
  
 Bandwidth is now adjustable via jumpers on the amp board, no need to order one or the other.


----------



## Felnah

canadianmaestro said:


> Not sure about Euro plug sockets. Here in NA, an ungrounded outlet will *not provide surge protection*. I think you would need to find a way of grounding the CMX bar.
> 
> Read thru this thread:
> http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/should-i-even-bother-with-a-power-conditioner-with-ungrounded-outlets.228182/
> ...


 
 Won't be safe from surges regardless in this old house. As long as the filtering works that's I'll I care about for the time being. I might try to find a way to pull a cable from one of the few grounded sockets to my setup though. I've had my PC go wonky for several months due to a nearby lightning strike, now I unplug every time the forecast predicts lightning/thunderstorms in my area.
  
 I'll try to find a power conditioned that I can buy in Norway, because of import taxes and Norways absolutely gutted currency atm.


----------



## vapman

bixby said:


> Bandwidth is now adjustable via jumpers on the amp board, no need to order one or the other.


 

*This is incorrect.*
 It is the one most commonly misunderstood piece of information in this thread!
  
 You pick either mellow or aggressive at time of ordering.
  
 Regardless of what you get, there are 3 bandwidth options. High bandwidth has no rolloff so it's the same on both models.
  
 Low bandwidth on mellow is less of a rolloff than mid bandwidth on aggressive. Check out the graphs and see for yourself. the three lines are the three selectable bandwidths.
  
*you do not select b/w mellow or aggressive.*
  
 I've seen this misinformation posted dozens of times over the months in this thread. I'm not yelling at you bixby, i've just explained this a few times already


----------



## CanadianMaestro

felnah said:


> I'll try to find a power conditioned that I can buy in Norway, because of import taxes and Norways absolutely gutted currency atm.


 
 Gutted currency? Norway has an oil revenue reserve fund that's the envy of Canadians. But I digress....


----------



## CanadianMaestro

felnah said:


> Won't be safe from surges regardless in this old house. As long as the filtering works that's I'll I care about for the time being. I might try to find a way to pull a cable from one of the few grounded sockets to my setup though. I've had my PC go wonky for several months due to a nearby lightning strike, now I unplug every time the forecast predicts lightning/thunderstorms in my area.
> 
> I'll try to find a power conditioned that I can buy in Norway, because of import taxes and Norways absolutely gutted currency atm.


 

 Highly rec you get surge protection. It protects your investments in gear!

 If you haven't yet, get in touch with jeremy about the hum.


----------



## Felnah

canadianmaestro said:


> Gutted currency? Norway has an oil revenue reserve fund that's the envy of Canadians. But I digress....


 
 It's not like we're poor all of a sudden, but I paid about 30% more for the Polaris than I would have if I bought it before the oil prices dropped. And I will send Jeremy an e-mail right now.
  
 Thanks for the help to all of you.


----------



## bixby

vapman said:


> *This is incorrect.*
> It is the one most commonly misunderstood piece of information in this thread!
> 
> You pick either mellow or aggressive at time of ordering.
> ...


 
*You are correct*, I must have just missed that since I ordered after some emails with Jeremy and without using the storefront, so sorry for the bad info.  And Jeremy knew all about my tastes, so I know he went with the (default) aggressive for my amp.
  
 Glad you caught that, I hate spreading bad juju


----------



## vapman

bixby said:


> *You are correct*, I must have just missed that since I ordered after some emails with Jeremy and without using the storefront, so sorry for the bad info.  And Jeremy knew all about my tastes, so I know he went with the (default) aggressive for my amp.
> 
> Glad you caught that, I hate spreading bad juju


 

 Hey! no worries man.
  
 No bad juju!
  
 The mellow/aggressive thing is pretty confusing. It took me a couple days of research and some emails back and forth to understand what the real difference was.
  
 No bad feelings!!!! It's all good.
  
 My post did look pretty mean with the bold text and all. sorry about that  didnt meant to scare ya 
  
 most importantly enjoy it when it shows up!!!


----------



## CobraTaco

Everything I ordered showed up today. Including RCA cables and the USB A to B for the modi. It was all waiting for me when I got home after work. Couldn't have been more perfect.
  
  

 The Schiit Modi 2U is actually way smaller than I anticipated haha. Its actually cute. Here's a typical handy knife for comparison.

 Look at that crystal clear acrylic. I swear I'm gonna get it scratched and dusty within a week

  

 Here's my desktop setup now   The brightness of my screens threw off my camera so it looks really bad lol
  
 I've been listening to some tracks and I can say, the upgrade from on-board to Dac+Amp is pretty sweet. My beyers (dt770pro80) have really come alive. The soundstage opened up immensely. I'ts like I'm hearing sounds from depths I haven't experienced. I consider myself to have pretty sharp ears, but DAMN when I concentrate I can pick out different instruments and details so easily compared to on-board. Something i noticed with my beyers is their tendency to "one trick pony" thump the base is pretty much gone. I can hear the tonality in different bass notes now. Overall I'm very impressed with my initial impressions of my new audio setup. I could probably say alot more but I've got some music to listen to


----------



## lvince95

cobrataco said:


> Everything I ordered showed up today. Including RCA cables and the USB A to B for the modi. It was all waiting for me when I got home after work. Couldn't have been more perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Another victim of HeadFi. RIP wallet


----------



## vapman

You have a lot of listening and jumper jumping to do!
 It took me over a month before I even made it from the bottom up to the top of the amp going thru all the settings you could. It's so deep.
 Enjoy it!
  
 P.S. I thought my acrylic case would be scratched and dirty and smudged too. I've had it for 3? 4? months now and it still looks like the day i got it. Not a speck of dust or any fingerprints somehow.
  
 Hint: Try running software EQ into the polaris. You'll be surprised at how well it does EQing.


----------



## CobraTaco

Okay. I've been tweaking jumpers and ive found with the attenuation jumper on & low gain the polaris can actually handle my IEMs with ease.
  
 Quick question though, can i stick a mini screw driver in here and change the LED brightness with this little screw? That's what the manual alludes to but I wanted to check with you guys.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, that's the one. I turned mine down as well. I found it difficult to read what each jumper was while being blinded by the light and was covering it up so I could see properly.


----------



## CobraTaco

iancraig10 said:


> Yes, that's the one. I turned mine down as well. I found it difficult to read what each jumper was while being blinded by the light and was covering it up so I could see properly.


 
 cool thanks for verifying. I was pretty sure, but wanted to be certain


----------



## CanadianMaestro

^ Heck, I didn't even know that screw was there for tuning brightness! I just switch on/off entirely.


----------



## CobraTaco

canadianmaestro said:


> ^ Heck, I didn't even know that screw was there for tuning brightness! I just switch on/off entirely.


 
 The only reason i know is because I checked the manual for what the attenuation jumper does. From what I gathered it reduces the signal strength resulting in overall lower volumes which is perfect for my IEMs. I'm still not sure what attenuation does though, but I know the end result is less volume.


----------



## bixby

cobrataco said:


> The only reason i know is because I checked the manual for what the attenuation jumper does. From what I gathered it reduces the signal strength resulting in overall lower volumes which is perfect for my IEMs. I'm still not sure what attenuation does though, but I know the end result is less volume.


 
 you guys are on the right track.  
  
 Attenuators reduce the input signal in this case.  So your dac might be outputing 2 volts through your interconnects to the amp.  And 2 volts input to the amp will be amplified (gain).  This fully amplified signal then hits the volume control (a kind of attenuator) and you reduce the signal before it hits the headphone jack.
  
 If the input signal is too strong, the amplified signal may not be reduced enough by the volume control.  1217 recommends to run the volume control above 9 o'clock for linear tracking.
 By lowering the input to the amp with an attenuator, let's say to 1 volt, the amp does its thing, but now you can turn the volume knob up higher to get the same volume of output via the headphone jack.  So for highly efficient cans it is a great solution, because you can design the amp to have good gain for ineffcient cans,.
  
 think of it as a fire hose coming from the dac with lots of water pressure, then you screw an adapter that limits flow and pressure and connect it to a garden hose.  When you water your plants, you are not cutting them to shreds with the water.
  
 All clear now?


----------



## CobraTaco

Thanks Bixby that makes perfect sense. Logically the attenuator is placed just beside the inputs since it directly affects the input signal.


----------



## Luckbad

I use the 100k attenuation module in my Sunrise III and will likely do the same with my Ember or Horizon (ordered one alongside the amps for $1).


----------



## CanadianMaestro

bixby said:


> you guys are on the right track.
> 
> Attenuators reduce the input signal in this case.  So your dac might be outputing 2 volts through your interconnects to the amp.  And 2 volts input to the amp will be amplified (gain).  This fully amplified signal then hits the volume control (a kind of attenuator) and you reduce the signal before it hits the headphone jack.
> 
> ...


 

 iow, it's like a gain control?


----------



## bixby

canadianmaestro said:


> iow, it's like a gain control?


 
 yes, it fixes the input at a certain level before it hits the real gain stage, the amplification stage.  And of course there are adjustable settings there.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

bixby said:


> yes, it fixes the input at a certain level before it hits the real gain stage, the amplification stage.  And of course there are adjustable settings there.


 

 thanks.


----------



## Solarium

I'm thinking of getting the Polaris to pair with my m9XX for my HD800 and T1. For those with such a combination, how do those pair up?
  
 Also, how does the Polaris compare to the Gustard H10, as it's currently on MD for $290 around the same price range as the Polaris.


----------



## i20bot

I'm selling mine if anyone is interested.  PM for more info.


----------



## NoahDalal

I just gone to buy now the polaris take the mellow or the agrassive? i saw the difference in graphs but i still dont know what is better


----------



## CanadianMaestro

noahdalal said:


> I just gone to buy now the polaris take the mellow or the agrassive? i saw the difference in graphs but i still dont know what is better


 

 do the mellow. highs are more intact, less roll-off as you can see from the graph. you can always adjust the amp settings to blunt really harsh highs on bad recs.


----------



## vapman

canadianmaestro said:


> do the mellow. highs are more intact, less roll-off as you can see from the graph. you can always adjust the amp settings to blunt really harsh highs on bad recs.


 

 I second this, I personally am super treble sensitive yet I find myself using medium bandwidth the most. I was worried it might not be enough rolloff for me, but now I can't imagine I'd like how aggressively the aggressive option rolls off highs.
  
 All up to personal preference and equipment & music used should all be taken into account. There is no right or wrong.


----------



## CobraTaco

I went with Agressive and still use low bandwidth with my beyer dt 770 pro so I can really drive that bass without harsh trebles. I'd say it depends on what headphones you're using and whether you are treble sensitive.


----------



## HOWIE13

I have aggressive and usually leave the bandwidth on high. Very occasionally I use the mid setting for over-bright strings and once or twice with badly remastered recordings from the '60's I've use the low setting.
 I suspect the ear adapts to whatever it gets used to anyway.
 The term 'aggressive' sounds massive but it's a misnomer and I think somewhat misleading as it is still only a small reduction compared to graphic equaliser settings.
 Looking at the graphs I'm surprised many people can hear much difference with the mid setting of the mellow version. The changes in the audible frequencies look miniscule.
 Actually, I thought I read somewhere that the mid setting of the mellow version has something to do with NOS DAC's. Maybe I'm imagining that.
 I guess what I'm agreeing is if you are sensitive to treble you are better with 'aggressive', otherwise it may not matter very much as both appear to sound excellent.


----------



## NoahDalal

cobrataco said:


> I went with Agressive and still use low bandwidth with my beyer dt 770 pro so I can really drive that bass without harsh trebles. I'd say it depends on what headphones you're using and whether you are treble sensitive.


 
 Im use the hd 650.


----------



## CobraTaco

noahdalal said:


> Im use the hd 650.


 
 with those you could go with mellow or aggressive. So it just comes down to your preference.
  
 -Do you want the highs/trebles to be slightly toned down? Aggressive
  
 -Do you want the highs/trebles to be mostly unchanged? Mellow
  
 Remember the Amp also has Bandwidth jumpers to further tune the sound to your liking.


----------



## disastermouse

cobrataco said:


> with those you could go with mellow or aggressive. So it just comes down to your preference.
> 
> -Do you want the highs/trebles to be slightly toned down? Aggressive
> 
> ...


 

 The aggressive will only tone down the treble if you move the jumpers off the standard 'high' setting. In that setting, they're the same. With HD650, there's just absolutely no reason to ever tone down the treble (at least pre-2010 HD650).


----------



## NoahDalal

I'm sensitive to harsh sound but with the hd 650 the sound more dark then treble but in some songs it can be treble to much.
 It's really confusing what to take...


----------



## HOWIE13

noahdalal said:


> I'm sensitive to harsh sound but with the hd 650 the sound more dark then treble but in some songs it can be treble to much.
> It's really confusing what to take...


 
 If you find even the HD650 can give too much treble I personally would go for the aggressive version. Why don't you contact Jeremy and ask his advice? If you are not happy I would think he could change the version for you anyway.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

^ I think the difference between aggressive and mellow is subtle, and may not be audible depending on the system.


----------



## NoahDalal

howie13 said:


> If you find even the HD650 can give too much treble I personally would go for the aggressive version. Why don't you contact Jeremy and ask his advice? If you are not happy I would think he could change the version for you anyway.


 
 I spoke with Jeremy and he told me that he uses aggressive and he told me just the aggressive adds more roll off for bright sounding headphones like you said. 
 ok guys thanks for the help i probably go with the aggressive one, i just need a recommendation to the good rca cable that connects to polaris from the stx.


----------



## Luckbad

noahdalal said:


> I spoke with Jeremy and he told me that he uses aggressive and he told me just the aggressive adds more roll off for bright sounding headphones like you said.
> ok guys thanks for the help i probably go with the aggressive one, i just need a recommendation to the good rca cable that connects to polaris from the stx.


 
  
 I liked aggressive personally. You can go from dead neutral to reasonably rolled off.
  
 As for RCA cables, I always use Blue Jeans RCA cables. If you want to go cheap, Kabeldirekt is your best bet.


----------



## vapman

I use monoprice premium rca cables. I know, I know...

I use a power punch cable with my Polaris though and boy does it make a difference.


----------



## iamxLn

what's the sound signature from the polaris?


----------



## vapman

iamxln said:


> what's the sound signature from the polaris?




Tube-like, super detailed yet relaxed, super musical


----------



## iamxLn

More bass quantity than magni? Can someone chime in


----------



## bixby

iamxln said:


> More bass quantity than magni? Can someone chime in


 
 lets just say the asgard 2 is not in the same league, does that help?
  
 If you are looking for bass "enhanced"  pass on it, it is rather neutral not boomy


----------



## vapman

It handles EQing very well, I often run strong as +18dB on sub bass to it. But if you are looking for hardware EQ the G1217's are not what you wasnt.


----------



## iamxLn

Not looking for bass head levels or anything just want something that does my headphones justice. Vibro, mdp, and he400 are all known for their own flavor of tasteful powerful bass. I don't feel like I'm getting it with the magni due to power or just the fact that the magni has been called bright.

Would the ember be a better match for my style? Is strongly prefer the little dot to the magni if that helps.


----------



## Tunkejazz

iamxln said:


> Not looking for bass head levels or anything just want something that does my headphones justice. Vibro, mdp, and he400 are all known for their own flavor of tasteful powerful bass. I don't feel like I'm getting it with the magni due to power or just the fact that the magni has been called bright.
> 
> Would the ember be a better match for my style? Is strongly prefer the little dot to the magni if that helps.


 
 I had the Vali-1 and the Polaris has a much better defined and articulated bass...I guess the word is authority in the lower end.
 It is certainly not bass shy (on the neutral side I would say) but I never miss to have more bass with the Polaris.


----------



## CobraTaco

If anyone was looking for a system wide Equalizer for Windows(64bit) I found this:
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
  
 And since that program is kind of daunting at first you can put this file into the install directory and run it for an easy GUI:
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/
  
 Virtually endless capability with filters/EQ/profiles. And I can personally say that the Polaris handles software EQ amazingly


----------



## iamxLn

tunkejazz said:


> I had the Vali-1 and the Polaris has a much better defined and articulated bass...I guess the word is authority in the lower end.
> It is certainly not bass shy (on the neutral side I would say) but I never miss to have more bass with the Polaris.




Vali is pretty underpowered by comparison too though, it's not any better than my little dot


----------



## iamxLn

Anyone using Polaris with any of the fostex mods? Wondering if it has enough power to maximize their potential.


----------



## RiddleyWalker

iamxln said:


> Anyone using Polaris with any of the fostex mods? Wondering if it has enough power to maximize their potential.




Drives my ZMF Blackwood fostex mod just fine with plenty of headroom on the volume knob. The Polaris has enough power for pretty much anything aside from running HE-6 / K1000 to their full potential.


----------



## Luckbad

iamxln said:


> Anyone using Polaris with any of the fostex mods? Wondering if it has enough power to maximize their potential.




I used the Polaris with the Fostex TH600. With EQ on the sub-bass and -20dB on the preamp EQ, it still had plenty of power and headroom.


----------



## iamxLn

luckbad said:


> I used the Polaris with the Fostex TH600. With EQ on the sub-bass and -20dB on the preamp EQ, it still had plenty of power and headroom.




How's the slam compared to the ember with Russian tubes?


----------



## Luckbad

iamxln said:


> How's the slam compared to the ember with Russian tubes?


 
  
 Never got to try them head to head.


----------



## Kevlar218

I had never heard of Garage1217 or the Polaris until someone in the HD600 impression forum mentioned that it made their 600's sound euphoric, so I had to see what this amp was all about. I was going to get a Vali 2, but after reading through all the posts over the past couple of days I am now convinced that I really need to hear one of these for myself. I love the idea of so many options to tune your sound and fit a variety of headphones.
  
 This will be a huge step up from my current setup (cheap SMSL 793II dac/amp), but I figure I might as well jump now instead of making small incremental purchases (Vali 2/Modi) and regretting the minimal upgrades I end up with. I am still undecided which headphones to pair it with. I have the HD598 and the SHP9500 currently, but want to upgrade to the HD600 or HD650. I will be able to use my current dac in the SMSL with the Polaris until I upgrade to something down the line right? Unless someone has a recommendation of a better stand alone dac that isn't going to break the bank but I was planning on saving up for something much better in a month or two around the $250 mark.


----------



## iamxLn

Yeah you're smarter to get the best you can afford and if you need to wait a little longer to do it, do that. Another one to check out would also be the project ember. People adore the project horizon iii, which was made for headphones like the hd600 and 650 specifically. 

Not to make things more difficult though


----------



## Kevlar218

iamxln said:


> Not to make things more difficult though


 
 I had a feeling this might happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I have considered the Ember but I didn't want to give myself the option to get carried away with tube rolling lol. I sit in front of a computer at work and tube rolling sounds like a lot of fun, so I would probably be all over Ebay buying a bunch of tubes after I first got it. For my wallet's sake, the world of tube amps will have to wait until I upgrade my current headphones and dac. I need another amp for my living room so the Ember will be at the top of my list when the time comes.
  
 Curious, you mentioned the Ember and then the Horizon iii right after that. If I ended up with the HD600/650 is there a benefit to having one over the other. I don't know a ton about tube amps but it looks like one is an OTL and the other is an SS? I have seen tons of people recommend a Bottlehead Crack amp which is OTL for HD600 but I'm not sure what the sound difference is with a hybrid SS amp vs an OTL. Sorry if it seems like a silly question. I will go digging in the forums in the mean time to try and find some answers.


----------



## iamxLn

The short version is it pushes more power to high ohms vs low ohms and that it sounds more tubey than the hybrids (ember). I understand the concern though I bought 3 sets of tubes for the little dot before deciding which to just keep in it.


----------



## wooo headphones

I have the Polaris paired with my HE500s and they sound great. Can anyone comment on how the Polaris pairs with HE-6? I understand that HE6 needs ~3W per channel and Polaris only supplies 2.4.
  
 I have the opportunity to get HE-6s at a pretty reasonable price. I know that HE-6 overall is better than HE-500 when paired correctly, but I'm wondering if when paired with Polaris HE-500 would perform better?
  
 I noticed Soundsgoodtome said he would be able to try out Polaris + HE-6 but that was back in September 2014 (page 20 or so). I never looked through some more pages and never saw the results.


----------



## andymarcs

if I wanted to partner a garage 1217 tube amp with the Polaris (as separate setups), would the ember's signature be too similar? Would the sunrise provide a better alternative perspective? Phones are k712, sennh6x0 and he400i. Others have noted that Polaris works well with the Senns and He400i, but the ember supposedly sounds fantastic with the k712. On the otherhand, the hd650 appears to pair nicely with the sunrise.


----------



## HOWIE13

@andymarks
  
 'if I wanted to partner a garage 1217 tube amp with the Polaris (as separate setups), would the ember's signature be too similar? '
  
 Interesting question and the answer is yes and no, it depends on the tube you use in the Ember and the bandwidth setting you chose for the Polaris. These amps are made to be able to be tuned to achieve the sound you want to hear. That's one of their big strengths and what sets them apart from many other amps.
 For instance, with Polaris you can change the 'aggressive' version (I don't particularly like the term 'aggressive' as it's not really aggressive at all), from being mildly warm and clear sounding, to having a moderately attenuated treble, whilst with Ember you can, for example, chose a tube like a 6N6P which will give you a warm euphonic 'tubey' sound or a Tesla or Tungsram E88CC which give clear, detailed, cooler though still sweet, sound, or a dual single triode set up, like 6J5''s, some of which will give exceptionally clear, articulate sound in an holographic sound stage. There are many other tube rolling possibilities and you can read more about this on the G1217 website and in the posts on the Project Ember Tube Rolling thread.


----------



## Kevlar218

After talking with Jeremy back and forth I finally placed the order for the Polaris. We discussed the Ember/Horizon and he said if I wasn't happy with the Polaris that I could send it back for an exchange. I don't really know what to expect from a sound standpoint coming from my current inexpensive setup.
  
 As far as which headphones I am going to pair with this amp, I have decided that I probably need two different ones for my taste in music since no one headphone seems to be able to do everything perfectly. I was thinking about the HD600/650 for rock/classical/blues/jazz and TH-X00 or T50RP MK3 for edm/metal. Hopefully I will be able to find one or both of those used so I can save a little.


----------



## iamxLn

Download camel add on for google chrome and check Amazon, the hd6x0 goes way low some times.


----------



## Kevlar218

Thanks for the heads up on that add on, I had no idea that existed. I have been looking for something like that for awhile now.


----------



## mowgli-kun

Soooo word's out that G1217 is working on a linear power supply! Check out Jeremy's blog post here: http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_013.htm
  
 Can anyone who's played around with upgraded/ linear power supplies (perhaps specifically on the Polaris) tell us what improvements they've gained? I would also love to hear some objective/ technical explanations for the sonic differences and how linear power supplies work differently and make a difference in the performance of audio gear. =)


----------



## Rudiger

Hi there,
    
 I have a 4490 Bifrost since last week. This Dac it very good, sounds natural, airy and detailed. 
 The problem is that now I find that my  Polaris lacks of body for my HE-560, and a little too clinical.
 I therefore intend to buy a Lyr 2. What do you think ?


----------



## Tunkejazz

rudiger said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ember II? 
To be honest I don't think the Polaris is analytical at all. May it be the bifrost?


----------



## Rudiger

Ember 2, yes... Having done a few investigations since my question, I expected that answer from this thread )
 I agree, I do not think it comes from Polaris, this comes from the Bifrost which is very detailed. It is the pairing of these two + HE-560 that is quite impressive but a bit tiring, and especially "thin" to my ears.
  
 Edit: and as ember 2 is not more powerful than Polaris, I fear that this remains "thin", from my experience.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I have the HE400i (93 dB, 35 Ohm), not far in specs to the 560 (90 dB, 45 ohm). The former are supposedly bassier than the latter, although the bass extension is better in the 560. If you look for comparisons around, the 560 are usually on the analytical side compared to the 400i, which extend less on both ends but the sound is "more fun" (more upper bass, less upper treeble?).
  
 Both the Polaris and the Ember can melt your ears with these cans while diving them with all the authority they will ever deliver.
 But if you want a fuller sound (more bass? more mids?) you may as well have the wrong cans...
  
 In my experience, changing the amp will give a slightly different flavor to how headphones sound, especially when comparing tube amps vs. SS amps.
 But we tend to blame the amp for things that usually are related to the headphones/speakers!
  
 Have you ever managed to get the sound you are looking for from those 560? If so, which amp did you use?
 I just hope you don't buy the Lyr2 to only later figure out that it was all about the headphones!
  
 I like my he400i, but they are not like the old HE400 model in the bass department (at all!).
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Rudiger

In fact I absolutely love the HE-560 ! About end of the game to me in the headphone level... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Before, I could listen to it on my NAD C356 BEE but we reconfigured the room, so I need a setup just for my headphones. But I still prefer to listen to the NAD, now I feel I'm missing something ! Polaris (which I love) is more detailed but have less body and I find it less enjoyable, less "natural" sounding. To my ears it sounds a little "cheap" next to the NAD. (This is because the Nad is outstanding with planars, IMO - and we are not in the same price range).
 To give an idea, to my ears go from the Polaris to the Nad is roughly equivalent as if I go from magni to Polaris. A big step (and a more big step in the first case).
 Long time ago I had a Lyr 1 with additional tubes and I had sold it, finding it too close to the Nad to keep it... but now...


----------



## HOWIE13

rudiger said:


> In fact I absolutely love the HE-560 ! About end of the game to me in the headphone level...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had a similar problem a few years ago moving from the headphone output of an Arcam integrated amplifier to using a dedicated headphone amplifier, using an HD600. The headphone amplifier initially sounded thin and lacked what I thought was richness and sounded 'clinical' in comparison.. After a while my ears accustomed to the finer detail and better dynamics of the headphone amp, but it took time, and ultimately I much preferred the latter. When I go back to the Arcam it sounds dull in comparison.
  
 I'm not exactly sure why this should be the case but I don't think it's a question of power. Your NAD has a headphone output impedance of 220 Ohms. That's high for a 45 Ohm impedance can and will likely be colouring the sound in a way you have become accustomed to and obviously enjoyed.
  
 The Polaris is a comparatively warm SS headphone amplifier. IMHO if you want a warmer sound you would need to explore tube amps which will allow you to experiment rolling known warm tubes to achieve the sort of sound you were hearing from your NAD headphone output socket and maybe that's why you liked your previous Lyr with additional tubes. I don't know the Lyr2 so can't comment about it but the Ember with an appropriate tube can be tweaked to sound very warm indeed.
 Alternatively, you could just purchase a second NAD as they are still available-but not cheap, unfortunately, or audition another headphone, (such as the NAD Viso HP50, HD650 or HE400), to pair with your Polaris, which would probably be the cheapest option if it worked for you. You could also consider an equaliser.
  
 Final thought! You can 'warm up' Polaris if you use the max output impedance setting and use the low bandwidth setting, the 'aggressive' version of Polaris giving more treble attenuation than the 'mellow' version.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Amen HOWIE13!


----------



## Rudiger

Thanx for this very good post, Howie.
 I of course tried Polaris settings but it's absolutely not the same result. Well done about the impedance, good idea. Anyway I think the Nad must send a large voltage to compensate.

 I agree that a tube amp should be able to get closer to the Nad. I ordered a 2 Lyr !


----------



## HOWIE13

rudiger said:


> Thanx for this very good post, Howie.
> I of course tried Polaris settings but it's absolutely not the same result. Well done about the impedance, good idea. Anyway I think the Nad must send a large voltage to compensate.
> 
> I agree that a tube amp should be able to get closer to the Nad. I ordered a 2 Lyr !


 
 I hope the Lyr suits you. Let us know how you get on- I have the Vali 2 which is a fun, easy to use amp and I am considering the Lyr 2 at some point in the future.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I am also looking forward to hear your impressions, especially given that I have the smaller sibling of your cans


----------



## Rudiger

No problem i will give you my impressions (quick because this is a garage 1217 forum after all)


----------



## Rudiger

Hi people, I think I need help, I spent an evening to go crazy!
  
 > To summarize : to go with my HE-560 and my Polaris I acquired the Bifrost 4490 last week. A very well renowned Dac. So I was very happy (expectation bias). Good sound, no ? ...But having the impression that something was not right, so I told myself it was time to change the amp (Polaris) ! Logic. So I ordered the Lyr 2 and several pairs of tubes (it should arrive within ten days).
 This felt that something was wrong could not come from the Bifrost, right?
  
 Ok, that was the summary ...
 Now I have doubts (BUT ... ?)

 > Tonight I had the bad idea to try the analog output of my loyal Dac Nad 2 to compare to my super renowed new Bifrost that smells good and give life more beautiful (and to be even more happy with my new acquisition ...).
 Well... ahem... (with Polaris) I much prefer the Nad. Completely insane, isn't it ? With this one I less feel the need to change the amp ! The sound seems more rich and natural, has a 3D soundstage and there are more bass. By comparison the Bifrost seems flat and boring, with too less bass and lacking spatially details.
 Either it's the Nad that is artificially flattering (that's a likely possibility) and I am not able to appreciate the good things OR the Bifrost is not so good. OR is it a mismatch, and _maybe with the Lyr the Bifrost will be better than the Nad_ ??? I hope this. (What do you think ?) 
 The problem is that I have less than a week to return the Bifrost ... if I want to try it with the Lyr 2 I take a risk.
 (If you think I have more chances to get expert answers on another thread I'm interested to know).


----------



## HOWIE13

rudiger said:


> Hi people, I think I need help, I spent an evening to go crazy!
> 
> > To summarize : to go with my HE-560 and my Polaris I acquired the Bifrost 4490 last week. A very well renowned Dac. So I was very happy (expectation bias). Good sound, no ? ...But having the impression that something was not right, so I told myself it was time to change the amp (Polaris) ! Logic. So I ordered the Lyr 2 and several pairs of tubes (it should arrive within ten days).
> This felt that something was wrong could not come from the Bifrost, right?
> ...


 
 I would return the Bifrost while you can get a refund. The NAD with Polaris is providing the sort of sound Polaris is capable of and the Bifrost isn't. 
 There may even be a fault with your Bifrost and you could consider purchasing another one after you have returned it if you wanted to check it out with the Polaris and the Lyr2. Timing will be important in case you want to return the Lyr2 as well.


----------



## Rudiger

Thanx Howie,
 "The NAD with Polaris is providing the sort of sound Polaris is capable of and the Bifrost isn't." => yes it is exactly that. But I do not understand why.
 It remains the hypothesis that this is the digital output of wireless Nad 2 that is not great.
 So tonight I'll compare via USB the Modi 1 vs the Nad wireless vs the Bifrost 4490.


----------



## Angular Mo

That folks are having difficulty pairing a Bifrost with a Garage1217 amp is disturbing to me.

I own a Bifrost Multibit and have am interested in the Ember to start my Tube Journey, now I am unsure about the pairing.

I hate returning things for various reasons.


----------



## bixby

rudiger said:


> Thanx Howie,
> "The NAD with Polaris is providing the sort of sound Polaris is capable of and the Bifrost isn't." => yes it is exactly that. But I do not understand why.
> It remains the hypothesis that this is the digital output of wireless Nad 2 that is not great.
> So tonight I'll compare via USB the Modi 1 vs the Nad wireless vs the Bifrost 4490.


 
 I've been following your trials with interest.  I think HOWIE13 has offered some good advice to consider.
  
 I will offer my observation.  I have only heard the 4490 bifrost once with my Mad Dog headphones and a Valhalla.  It did not seem bright to me.  I own a Polaris and do feel it is rather neutral with the flat standard bandwidth setting.  I have heard the 560s on a number of setups.
  
 The 560 has a treble peak which to my ears makes it less than warm sounding, rather thin to be honest.  And the owners of the 560s seem to turn to tube amps to smooth this peak often times with warm vintage tubes.  Or stuff like the Vali 2 on the low end.  But since you seem to like cans with just a slight tilt toward the treble, I really think you may also benefit from a different amp or try one of the reduced bandwidth setting on the Polaris.
  
 And just a note, does the 4490 have at least 40 hours of time on it.  Many dacs do not sound best until a number of hours of burn in and also many do not sound there best if not warmed up, so if you have been turning it on and listening that could be an issue.  Leave it on for 30 minutes at least and preferably a few hours.  Frankly I think the sound differences in dacs to be a bit smaller than amps, and actually some cables can make a bigger difference than dacs.


----------



## Rudiger

@Angular Mo : I am probably the only one, and the Bifrost has no reason to be worse with the Polaris than another amp.
  
@bixby (thanx a lot for your post) & others
 In fact the problem is not that the Bifrost seems bright at all (this may be the case of the Modi but very VERY slightly), it is that I find it too flat (lack of fun) and a lot of information seem too much in the background + the spacialisation is too "two dimensions".
  
 It may also be that my ears are not accustomed to high-end sound (but I doubt it given the richness I perceive from the cheap wireless Nad in comparison).
  
 And yes, I burn it the entire week. Not sure it makes a difference.
  
 (Note: the following is light and subtle, we agree. And IMO _et cetera_.).
  
 So I did my tests with the Polaris.

 1 / coaxial digital output from the Nad to the Bifrost sounds the same or so as the PC USB to Bifrost. Phew, good point.
 2 / The Bifrost 4490 is a bit better than the modi 1. More subtle, less aggressive, more soundstage. Ok, everything is normal so far. (...In other words, I like even less the Modi because he have the ""defects"" of the Bifrost + some others.)
 3 / And ... definitely, analog output of this little Nad is better to my ears than the Bifrost.
  
 ...
 ...
 I really wanted to love it, though.
 And he would have been so smart with the Lyr 2 that I will receive soon.
  
 So I just asked a return to Schiit and they accepted (very quickly, they are great with users). Apparently I still have 15 days from that date to do the return but I'll do it quickly.
  
 ((Aside: it will cost me dear ... about 60 $ for shipping costs to get it AND about the same thing for the return ... + 15% restocking fee on Bifrost ... AND 120 $ of import taxes to France. I hope to recover this taxes but I'm not sure... For sure I will order only on "Schiit Europe" Sonority audio now))
  
 ((Edit - Aside2 / morality of the story. When I see all the rave reviews of Bifrost I ask myself some serious questions. All this means that there are things that I really do not feel like some others, which critics are however very considered. (Have they compared very closely Schiit dacs with others from more mainstream brands ? I suppose.) I realize only now how only a self listening even allows you to really get an idea in this domain. And that we need to be careful about expectation bias. Yep, all of this is not very original to say, but this is the first time I fully realized it. Or of course, you could know well the person giving his opinion and know what it's worth compared to what you perceive. This may be like a compass that allows to locate in space.))
  
 These audio things are (maybe) first of all a matter of personnal taste and habits.


----------



## bixby

rudiger said:


> @Angular Mo : I am probably the only one, and the Bifrost has no reason to be worse with the Polaris than another amp.
> 
> @bixby (thanx a lot for your post) & others
> In fact the problem is not that the Bifrost seems bright at all (this may be the case of the Modi but very VERY slightly), it is that I find it too flat (lack of fun) and a lot of information seem too much in the background + the spacialisation is too "two dimensions".
> ...


 
 Understood!
  
 WAIT a minute, $240 loss on a $400 dac?????  Why in goodness name would you send it back.  I am sure someone would pay you $400 or a bit less for it in France, no?


----------



## Rudiger

bixby said:


> Understood!
> 
> WAIT a minute, $240 loss on a $400 dac?????  Why in goodness name would you send it back.  I am sure someone would pay you $400 or a bit less for it in France, no?


 

 I am not sure... Bifrost is "only" 449 € at schiit-europe for new.
 I understand your view, but I find it easier to ask for a refund rather than get me started on the second hand market in Europe.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

rudiger said:


> > Tonight I had the bad idea to try the analog output of my loyal Dac Nad 2 to compare to my super renowed new Bifrost that smells good and give life more beautiful (and to be even more happy with my new acquisition ...).
> Well... ahem... (with Polaris) I much prefer the Nad. *Completely insane, isn't it ?* With this one I less feel the need to change the amp !


 

 No, it's not insane. Trust your ears. If your NAD pairs great with 560 vs. the schiit, then go with it.


----------



## vapman

Anyone else tried upgrading their AC cables?
  
 I replaced the stock AC cable  that comes with the DC power supply with a Power Punch a few months back and it's like night and day difference with all my G1217 amps. So much more detail and depth.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

vapman said:


> Anyone else tried upgrading their AC cables?
> 
> I replaced the stock AC cable  that comes with the DC power supply with a Power Punch a few months back and it's like night and day difference with all my G1217 amps. So much more detail and depth.


 

 Made no difference for me. The bottleneck is still that thin fixed cable that plugs into the Polaris from the DC box.


----------



## vapman

canadianmaestro said:


> Made no difference for me. The bottleneck is still that thin fixed cable that plugs into the Polaris from the DC box.




Interesting - did you get a Mean Well brand psu with your Polaris? I find all my Mean Wells work very well.

One day I hope to try it with a true linear bench supply but first I need the space for one.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

vapman said:


> Interesting - did you get a Mean Well brand psu with your Polaris? I find all my Mean Wells work very well.
> 
> One day I hope to try it with a true linear bench supply but first I need the space for one.


 

 No, just use the stock psu from Jeremy. It's a good-sounding  amp as it is. No tweaking for me. I may tweak my HPs instead and my main floor rig.


----------



## vapman

canadianmaestro said:


> No, just use the stock psu from Jeremy. It's a good-sounding  amp as it is. No tweaking for me. I may tweak my HPs instead and my main floor rig.


 

 I meant is the stock PSU from Jeremy a MW branded one. Both the PSU's i got for my G1217's were.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

vapman said:


> I meant is the stock PSU from Jeremy a MW branded one. Both the PSU's i got for my G1217's were.


 

 Don't know. Is it really superior to a "non-MW"?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

vapman said:


> I meant is the stock PSU from Jeremy a MW branded one. Both the PSU's i got for my G1217's were.


 

 I just looked. It is "MW".


----------



## vapman

canadianmaestro said:


> Don't know. Is it really superior to a "non-MW"?


 

 No idea! I was more curious than anything else, honestly.


----------



## NoahDalal

i get today the polaris and there are no huge diffrence between the stx amp...
 i connect the rca to the input that ok? 
 what the output connection used for? its just not work with the headphones and speakers so what the use of this?
 additionally the gain switch need to change somthing apart the volume power? 
 there is little change between the polaris and the stx In the meantime but nothing special... 
 burn in will improve the amp?
 i also meant to connect the speakers but i thought you could connect them to the amplifier but its not work


----------



## oldson

output is for use as pre-amp!


----------



## CobraTaco

Speakers go into the output RCA jacks of polaris
  
 The STX has a headphone amp built into the headphone jack, so make sure to plug the polaris input into the STX's (L R) RCA jacks
  
 But Speakers are muted when you plug in headphones to the Polaris
  
 On a basic level, yes Gain changes volume power. For high Ohm headphones you usually want high gain


----------



## NoahDalal

cobrataco said:


> Speakers go into the output RCA jacks of polaris
> 
> The STX has a headphone amp built into the headphone jack, so make sure to plug the polaris input into the STX's (L R) RCA jacks


 
 i connected the speakers in the output on the polaris and its not work.
 stx is setting the speakers in settings with the headphones so i dont know how to turn on the speakers also.
 about the gain its need to be on the mid? i dont understood it becus i see posts about the gain everyone there that another quantity and i just hear differences in volume and not somthing else
  
 sorry about my english i hope its understandable


----------



## oldson

have you tried unplugging the headphones? 
 i believe when headphones are in , it disables the "line-out". though i could be wrong.


----------



## oldson

try looking here.
  
 Frans (Solderdude) is the designer and very helpful. as are all the guys !!
  
 http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris


----------



## NoahDalal

yes now its work but very quiet not like with the stx


----------



## CobraTaco

Try turning the computer sound all the way up and using the polaris knob for controlling volume


----------



## NoahDalal

Thanks guys.
 What is the recommended gain with the HD650?
 the amp need a burn in to improve? 
 The differences between the STX and Polaris from what I hear very little in the meantime, So it's a bit surprising that people have described this difference of heaven and earth.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

noahdalal said:


> What is the *recommended gain with the HD650?*


 
 Use whatever gives an eargasm, man.


----------



## CobraTaco

I stepped up from onboard to Modi2U+Polaris. For me that was a night and day difference.


----------



## NoahDalal

This is not the same comparison


----------



## senorx12562

noahdalal said:


> Thanks guys.
> What is the recommended gain with the HD650?
> the amp need a burn in to improve?
> The differences between the STX and Polaris from what I hear very little in the meantime, So it's a bit surprising that people have described this difference of heaven and earth.




My hd600s sound best to my ears using the middle impedence setting (R), but even the low gain setting is more than sufficient i.e. 1 o'clock on the knob is as loud as I need with most recordings. I always use the lowest gain settings possible as higher gain settings can raise the noise floor along with the volume of the music. Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## oldson

noahdalal said:


> Thanks guys.
> What is the recommended gain with the HD650?
> the amp need a burn in to improve?
> The differences between the STX and Polaris from what I hear very little in the meantime, So it's a bit surprising that people have described this difference of heaven and earth.


 
 personally i am not a believer of burn in.
  
 i believe the brain gets used to the sound. thats my opinion.


----------



## Aplle

vapman said:


> Interesting - did you get a Mean Well brand psu with your Polaris? I find all my Mean Wells work very well.
> 
> One day I hope to try it with a true linear bench supply but first I need the space for one.


 
 Has there been any news about the Garage1217 LPS that they were working on? Haven't heard anything on that front in a while.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Last time I heard from Jeremy, he was preparing the case for the power supply, I guess he is close to finishing everything.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

oldson said:


> personally i am not a believer of burn in.
> 
> i believe the brain gets used to the sound. thats my opinion.


 

 probably right.


----------



## oldson

tunkejazz said:


> Last time I heard from Jeremy, he was preparing the case for the power supply, I guess he is close to finishing everything.


 
 thats interesting.
 fancy one for my Ember


----------



## kehorton

Any news about the new linear power supply? I'm super interested and after reading as much as my mind will absorb for now. Hell I would preorder if they opened it up ☺ . I think I saw some images of raw board with a big ole toroid on it. Temptation!


----------



## vapman

Depending on price I may order too. I've noticed improvements by messing with the AC cable and I have no doubts linear power would push these amps to the limit of what they're capable of!


----------



## CobraTaco

So I'm fully aware that the Polaris is a headphone amp, but i just ordered an Overnight Sensations speaker kit and im curious if the polaris pre-amp will be enough to power them or if I should get a $50-100 dedicated speaker amp. Suggestions?

P.S. do u guys think dark stained wood on speakers looks good. Can't decide how to finish the speaker boxes


----------



## vapman

cobrataco said:


> So I'm fully aware that the Polaris is a headphone amp, but i just ordered an Overnight Sensations speaker kit and im curious if the polaris pre-amp will be enough to power them or if I should get a $50-100 dedicated speaker amp. Suggestions?
> 
> P.S. do u guys think dark stained wood on speakers looks good. Can't decide how to finish the speaker boxes


 

 The polaris preamp is good enough if they're powered speakers. If they're passive you'll need a power amp, but just the same, the polaris' line out is perfect for that.
  
 I'm about to buy my second Polaris BTW.


----------



## bixby

cobrataco said:


> So I'm fully aware that the Polaris is a headphone amp, but i just ordered an Overnight Sensations speaker kit and im curious if the polaris pre-amp will be enough to power them or if I should get a $50-100 dedicated speaker amp. Suggestions?
> 
> P.S. do u guys think dark stained wood on speakers looks good. Can't decide how to finish the speaker boxes


 
 of course NOT- It is a headphone amp with preamp outputs.  There is no speaker amp.


----------



## CobraTaco

Okay so now my plan is to go:
  
 Computer--->Modi2U--->Polaris Pre-Amp---> 2.1 Speaker amp--->Overnight Sensations
  
 This should be good right?


----------



## vapman

cobrataco said:


> Okay so now my plan is to go:
> 
> Computer--->Modi2U--->Polaris Pre-Amp---> 2.1 Speaker amp--->Overnight Sensations
> 
> This should be good right?


 

 power amp is really what you need - speaker amp is a vague term and could mean either power amp or integrated amp (an integrated amp will work fine, but use the preamp inputs on it instead of one of the normal inputs)
  
 but yeah that'll work fine


----------



## CobraTaco

I think I'm going to get one of these:
  
  http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-50Wx2-TDA7492-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1461266009&sr=1-1&keywords=SMSL+SA50


----------



## bixby

that would work and you could leave the Polaris out altogether for a shorter signal path and less interconnects since the smsl has a volume control.  Not sure about smsl quality or reliability, but it is inexpensive.   I had a Trends t-amp that beat Emotiva 100 power amp and a nice tube integrated for sound quality.  And it was 10 watts.


----------



## CobraTaco

I could, but I like how the Polaris has the speaker pass-through while no headphones are plugged in. I tend to swap between my headphones/speakers often and that feature makes it easy to use the Polaris for speaker and headphone volume. My plan is to set the knob on the SMSL and then don't touch it


----------



## Bob A (SD)

Made a move on a used Polaris.  Intend to compare it to my Vali 1.  Both will be fed by foobar2000 FLAC files (WASAPI - event mode) through my Modi 2.  My HD580 and HD600 will be the cans in play.


----------



## CobraTaco

Nice choice! I think you'll like it 
 Half the fun is playing with the different jumpers and finding what sounds best for different headphones
 I recommend checking out the manual and figuring out exactly what the jumpers do.
 Also do you know if you got an AGRESSIVE or MELLOW variant?


----------



## vapman

bob a (sd) said:


> Made a move on a used Polaris.  Intend to compare it to my Vali 1.  Both will be fed by foobar2000 FLAC files (WASAPI - event mode) through my Modi 2.  My HD580 and HD600 will be the cans in play.


 

 Nice one man!
  
 Definitely curious to hear your thoughts on it, and the X3 thru it, cause I know you'll try that too eventually 
  
 I sold my Polaris a couple months ago to get one of G1217's tube amps, but I've been wanting to switch back to the mellow Polaris, so I'll probably end up buying one again, maybe if I see a used one pop up too.


----------



## jbarrentine

bob a (sd) said:


> Made a move on a used Polaris.  Intend to compare it to my Vali 1.  Both will be fed by foobar2000 FLAC files (WASAPI - event mode) through my Modi 2.  My HD580 and HD600 will be the cans in play.


 
  
 I made that move quite some time back. It's a dramatic difference IMO. Tinker with the settings quite a bit to find what you want.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

Not sure... the seller thinks it's the agressive.  I would have preferred mellow since I'll be running HD580 and HD600 cans.


----------



## vapman

You can send it in to G1217 and they'll adjust it to mellow for free (you've got to pay postage of course) if you don't like aggressive.
  
 They way you'll know is if the medium bandwidth option sounds too rolled off for you - the mellow on low bandwidth is less rolled off than aggressive on medium bandwidth.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > Made a move on a used Polaris.  Intend to compare it to my Vali 1.  Both will be fed by foobar2000 FLAC files (WASAPI - event mode) through my Modi 2.  My HD580 and HD600 will be the cans in play.
> ...


 

 Interesting.  Thought you were looking at a Horizon III.  
  
 I opted for the Polaris for two reasons:  (1) it's said to have some tube SQ characteristics and (2) I'm getting too old to mess with tube rolling  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Haven't run my xDuoo X3 through the Vali 1 yet. Interesting thought about trying the Polaris with it... certainly not a portable set up but still....


----------



## Bob A (SD)

jbarrentine said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > Made a move on a used Polaris.  Intend to compare it to my Vali 1.  Both will be fed by foobar2000 FLAC files (WASAPI - event mode) through my Modi 2.  My HD580 and HD600 will be the cans in play.
> ...


 

 I did indeed read your posts about your move from Vali 1 to the Polaris.   What settings are you finding the most favor with?  Not sure what cans you're using though....


----------



## vapman

bob a (sd) said:


> Interesting.  Thought you were looking at a Horizon III.
> 
> I opted for the Polaris for two reasons:  91) it's said to have some tube SQ characteristics and (2) I'm getting too old to mess with tube rolling
> 
> ...


 

 I am, but  tube rolling is a lot of effort yeah.... and tubes are fragile, as you know. Not that I was ever rough with my amps... It definitely does have tube SQ characteristics and I miss the one I used to have a lot 
  
 I ran my X3 thru a g1217 for the first time when my computer broke down and I was fixing it and was using the Polaris as a stereo preamp at the time. Plugged in the X3 and had a great time driving my stereo with that.


----------



## jbarrentine

For what it's worth I use:
  
 without attenuation
 high bandwidth
 low gain
 medium output resistance
  
 This puts 9am at what I consider loud. I don't like playing with the dial much. Your wants might vary, of course. 
  
 I find the polaris is a much more full, rich, nimble sound than the vali.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.  Thought you were looking at a Horizon III.
> ...


 

 I have been weighing things for some time.  I'm still quite pleased with my Vali 1 but kept wondering if I might be missing something.  Looked hard and long at a bunch of tube options (e.g. Vali 2, Vahalla 2, Ember III, etc. and even some too rich for my blood like the Torpedo III).  Then I took a look at what SS options were out there and the Polaris jumped out at me over the Asgard 2, Lake People G109-A, etc.   Still wondering if it'll prove to be a step up or a step sideways for these old retiree ears.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I know *jbarrentine* felt it was a big step up for him.)
  
 My weighing and messing around even extended to this:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/16080#post_12559107  
*vapman*, don't know if you saw that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Just a wee bit too cumbersome for the desktop!
  
 BTW I found this review/comparo between the Ember and Polaris quite interesting:  http://tinyurl.com/zgb5xf2


----------



## jbarrentine

I'm happy enough for now that I can't imagine moving off this amp. If I did I would have to spend a LOT more, like Violectric V200 level more. I can't picture that anytime soon. Someone would have to prove to me that differences were significant because the price difference certainly is.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

The Polaris was just delivered.  Trying it out with both my HD580 and HD600.  Played a bit with settings but these seem pretty good:
  
 Attenuation ON (10k)
 Bandwidth HIGH
 Gain MED  (3.7x)
 Resistance LOW  (0.1 Ω)
  
 Volume pot needs to be set between 1 and 2 o'clock with these jumper settings for comfortably loud listening. NICE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Had tried Gain on LOW.  Trying Resistance on MED (35Ω) now.
  
 Initial impressions is that the bass is much tauter / crisper than with the Vali 1. The rest of the SQ seems pretty close but I don't have an A-B switch to be really sure.


----------



## CobraTaco

The Polaris also handles software EQ really well.
 I have a slight bump in the low end and my SHP9500s can compete with my Beyer dt770 80s in the bass department.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

cobrataco said:


> The Polaris also handles software EQ really well.


 
 I use _gl's impulse curves in the convolver plugin for foobar2000.  Very effective but subtle tweak to compensate for the Senn's slight lower bass rolloff.    http://www.head-fi.org/t/797907/hd600-my-custom-bass-extension-curves.    
  
 My SHP9500s (and SHL5500s) are used along with IEMs with my portable setup and not my desktop.


----------



## bixby

bob a (sd) said:


> I use _gl's impulse curves in the convolver plugin for foobar2000.  Very effective but subtle tweak to compensate for the Senn's slight lower bass rolloff.    http://www.head-fi.org/t/797907/hd600-my-custom-bass-extension-curves.
> 
> My SHP9500s (and SHL5500s) are used along with IEMs with my portable setup and not my desktop.


 
 Question, given that the 600 and 650 distortion rises dramatically down low without any EQ, aren't you just making the problem way worse by jacking up the bass that much at 20 and 32?  The driver is probably screaming with those demands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Are you listening to electronic music that demands the super low bass or organ music?


----------



## Bob A (SD)

bixby said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > I use _gl's impulse curves in the convolver plugin for foobar2000.  Very effective but subtle tweak to compensate for the Senn's slight lower bass rolloff.    http://www.head-fi.org/t/797907/hd600-my-custom-bass-extension-curves.
> ...


 

 My main system are biamped Magneplanar IIIa's with tweaked crossovers augmented with an 18" subwoofer.  And I have a pair of Hsu designed subs in my home theater.  So I guess you could say that I enjoy impactful bass when it is in the original material. 
  
 And no I don't see or hear any detrimental effects of employing _gl's impulse curves.  They are very very mild and not the brute force EQ crap too often found and used by the unwary.  Have you looked at his thread I linked?


----------



## bixby

bob a (sd) said:


> My main system are biamped Magneplanar IIIa's with tweaked crossovers augmented with an 18" subwoofer.  And I have a pair of Hsu designed subs in my home theater.  So I guess you could say that I enjoy impactful bass when it is in the original material.
> 
> And no I don't see or hear any detrimental effects of employing _gl's impulse curves.  They are very very mild and not the brute force EQ crap too often found and used by the unwary.  Have you looked at his thread I linked?


 
 Sorry, I did not read the entire thread.  I just saw your revised EQ settings a few posts in showing +12 @20 and +10.7 @25.  Maybe there are more revisions further in the thread, I'll revisit when I have time, thanks.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

bixby said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > My main system are biamped Magneplanar IIIa's with tweaked crossovers augmented with an 18" subwoofer.  And I have a pair of Hsu designed subs in my home theater.  So I guess you could say that I enjoy impactful bass when it is in the original material.
> ...


 

 Oh heck.  That was one of my first attempts to replicate his curves using (stupidly) the graphic equilizer plugin.   Several steps (pages) later we're using the convolver plugin.


----------



## bixby

bob a (sd) said:


> Oh heck.  That was one of my first attempts to replicate his curves using (stupidly) the graphic equilizer plugin.   Several steps (pages) later we're using the convolver plugin.


 
 got it.  How transparent is that convolver plugin, the EQ in Foobar is crap?


----------



## Bob A (SD)

bixby said:


> bob a (sd) said:
> 
> 
> > Oh heck.  That was one of my first attempts to replicate his curves using (stupidly) the graphic equilizer plugin.   Several steps (pages) later we're using the convolver plugin.
> ...


 

 Frankly I was initially skeptical as I knew nothing about a convolver.  But after 6+ weeks now with it I can say I've been extremely pleased.    _gl is a programmer and recording engineer.  He's talking about trying to rewrite the convolver plug in to address it's main weakness which is its inability to match dedicated impulse curves to music selection bitrates.  That said I don't find the mismatch between 44.1 impulse curves and 24/96 FLAC files a problem.  Most of my music is 16/44.1 FLAC FWIW.  Bottom line is that the convolver with proper impulse curves trounces the native equilizer in foobar or the graphic equilizer plugin that is quite a bit better.  From my knothole it's a refinement of what the pro-audio Sonarworks offers.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

It's looking more and more that these will be my Polaris settings for my HD580/600 cans:
  
 Attenuation:  ON (10k)
 Bandwidth:  HIGH
 Gain:  MED  (3.7x)
 Resistance:  MED  (35 Ω)
  
 In addition to the more impactful solidity of the bass I'm sensing a wider soundstage.  Almost holographic with some great recordings.  Vocals are just great.  Overall a nice step up from the Vali 1, which really is no slouch,  without sacrificing the tubish warmth it provides.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

The Polaris amp in situ.


----------



## vapman

bob a (sd) said:


> The Polaris amp in situ.


 
 I dunno man... the Phase Linear matched your tower better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Your polaris settings are basically how I left mine, I think after a month or of using it you'll start playing with them more, only difference is I had mellow tuning so I left mine on Medium bandwidth and low resistance to push the maximum power to my headphones (usually IEMs or earbuds though)


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> I dunno man... the Phase Linear matched your tower better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Smart*$$!  LOL 
  
 Mine is mellow and not aggressive for the bandwidth.  Jeremy confirmed this when transfering the warranty.
  
 I doubt very much that the Polaris will see anything but my Senns.  The two Philips cans plus my IEMs are all the province of the xDuoo X3.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ADDENDUM:
  
   Wanted to stack the Polaris on my Modi 2 but the size mismatch presented problems.  Thought about a lot of approaches including taller legs (screws and threaded spacers), and so on.  But it finally dawned on me that a couple of lines of stick-tac would keep the Polaris' acrylic bottom from sliding around.  BINGO!  It worked... no sliding when switching the amp on or even plugging in my cans.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   And yeah I'm still chuckling about it!
  
  OH BTW I've packed away the Vali 1.
  


  
 Sorry about the lousy old cellphone camera pix.


----------



## senorx12562

bob a (sd) said:


> Smart*$$!  LOL
> 
> Mine is mellow and not aggressive for the bandwidth.  Jeremy confirmed this when transfering the warranty.
> 
> ...



I actually found that the adhesive "feet" Schiit provides create just enough clearance to either my vali1 or my Sys to place them on top of the Polaris without fouling the jumpers, and of course the footprint of the latter is sufficiently larger than the small Schiit cases to create a better base for the stack. I have the aluminum case however.


----------



## vapman

Funny you did that @Bob A (SD) 'cause I do the same thing with my Starlight on top of my ODAC!
  
 (Well I actually just sold my Starlight to a Head-Fi'er in Thailand so I'll probably be re-joining the Polaris crew very shortly)


----------



## Bob A (SD)

senorx12562 said:


> I actually found that the adhesive "feet" Schiit provides create just enough clearance to either my vali1 or my Sys to place them on top of the Polaris without fouling the jumpers, and of course the footprint of the latter is sufficiently larger than the small Schiit cases to create a better base for the stack. I have the aluminum case however.


 
  
 Interesting.  Honestly hadn't thought about that but if the jumpers are unaffected that would indeed work well.  Mmmmm......
  
 Tried it by placing my soon-to-be-put-away vali 1 on top of the Polaris.  Talk about just a silly millimeter clearance.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> Funny you did that @Bob A (SD) 'cause I do the same thing with my Starlight on top of my ODAC!
> 
> (Well I actually just sold my Starlight to a Head-Fi'er in Thailand so I'll probably be re-joining the Polaris crew very shortly)


 
  
 Great minds think alike vapman!   hahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## Bob A (SD)

*Anyone know what the specs are for the (D3) power LEDs?*  Hate to bother Jeremy with such an issue.  Specs aren't listed in the manuals or in the schematic.
  
 Mine has an Orange LED  in it which is quite nice but rather subdued.  Just popped for some Blue 3mm LEDs, Voltage & Current: 3.2V - 3.4V/ 20mA,  Luminous Intensity: 10000 - 12000 mcd which I hope are the right spec.   Also looking at Violet/UV as well as Amber.  But I'll wait to try out the Blue first.
  
  
  
  
 As an aside I've had a heck of a time taking my HD580 off my head since getting the Polaris!   Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Bob A (SD)

brmslash said:


> The Polaris has been updated to version 1.2.
> 
> The comments at DIY-Audio-Heaven state:
> 
> ...


 
*Anyone have more specifics?   Value of the resistor?  Exactly WHERE on the v1.1 circuit board it should be placed?*


----------



## vapman

bob a (sd) said:


> *Anyone know what the specs are for the (D3) power LEDs?*  Hate to bother Jeremy with such an issue.  Specs aren't listed in the manuals or in the schematic.
> 
> Mine has an Orange LED  in it which is quite nice but rather subdued.  Just popped for some Blue 3mm LEDs, Voltage & Current: 3.2V - 3.4V/ 20mA,  Luminous Intensity: 10000 - 12000 mcd which I hope are the right spec.   Also looking at Violet/UV as well as Amber.  But I'll wait to try out the Blue first.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think it's worth worrying too much about, I asked jeremy about this a while back when I was asking about other stuff too.
  
 "any LED will work fine from 1.9 - 3.2V. The circuit is more dialed in via current in this respect."


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> I don't think it's worth worrying too much about, I asked jeremy about this a while back when I was asking about other stuff too.
> 
> "any LED will work fine from 1.9 - 3.2V. The circuit is more dialed in via current in this respect."


 
 I suspected as much but wanted a sanity check.  Appreciate it vapman!  Thank you!


----------



## vapman

Glad to hear they solved the "tick" by the way, that was pretty much my only complaint about the thing,


----------



## Bob A (SD)

vapman said:


> Glad to hear they solved the "tick" by the way, that was pretty much my only complaint about the thing,


 

 It's still present in my older v1.1 (somewhat annoying) which is why I'm asking for more specifics about adding a resistor to upgrade to v1.2.
  
 Picked up some black nylon 4-40 thumbscrews to make removing the top acyrlic plate easy and some more different colored LEDs to play with as well.


----------



## BRMSlash

You can get the schematics from https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/schematics/amplifier/ and there's discussion and details at http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris
  
 Basically there's an additional 47k resistor branching off between R14 and R15 on a rev 1.1 board (R15 & R16 on rev 1.2 board).  This ensures the gain cap (C5) is always engaged.


----------



## CobraTaco

So I've been using the Polaris for a few months now. I had to take a reasonably long car trip and decided,
  
 "Hey I'll just use my phone (note 4) and listen to music on my SHP9500s. They are pretty easy to drive." 
  
 And as I pull out of my driveway and the music starts playing, I immediately had to stop. I listened carefully, and came to the conclusion that:
  
 HOLY **** MUSIC OUT OF MY PHONE SOUNDS LIKE GARBAGE COMPARED TO MY POLARIS.
  
 I've spoiled my ears and now I can no longer listen in ignorant bliss.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

Mentioned earlier that I had some black nylon thumbscrews coming that would make it easier for me to remove the top acrylic plate for power LED changes.  They showed up today and as expected needed to be trimmed a bit.  They were 4-40 x 1/2".  They needed to be 3/8" max.  Being nylon trimming them was no problem at all.  I have 3 different colors of LEDs inbound to play with.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's how it looks now sitting atop my Modi 2 secured against sliding with four "dots" of sticky-tac.


----------



## k4rstar

bob a (sd) said:


> Mentioned earlier that I had some black nylon thumbscrews coming that would make it easier for me to remove the top acrylic plate for power LED changes.  They showed up today and as expected needed to be trimmed a bit.  They were 4-40 x 1/2".  They needed to be 3/8" max.  Being nylon trimming them was no problem at all.  I have 3 different colors of LEDs inbound to play with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice. Will hopefully be getting my Polaris this week. (fingers crossed) I will also be running it with HD650, HD600 and the Modi 2U so we have a bit in common there. May have to steal your sticky tack idea if I want it to fit in between my monitors.


----------



## vapman

The sticky tac is actually a great idea. Bob and I were laughing because we both had our G1217 amps stuck to our DACs the same way.
  
 Clearly great minds think alike and have similar gear too. I hope to re-join club Polaris soon, really miss mine.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

I truly believe this amp is woefully underappreciated. It offers tremedous flexibility with a remarkable SQ that provides a great deal of the best of both tube and solid state characteristics.  
  
 I had considered numerous possible upgrades, both tube and SS,  from my Vali, which being redundant I've said and felt was no slouch paired with my HD580 / HD600s.  I don't regret my choice of the Polaris at all.  It has indeed brought my headphone experience to the next level.
  
 I read a comment someone posted somewhere that opined that were Garage 1217 to have an aggressive marketing posture they'd trump many more well known manufacturerers in the marketplace.  I tend to agree.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   As it is you're talking a one man US based operation aided by his wife along with one man acting as a designer based in Europe.  For such a very small "footprint" they offer some outstanding products and CS.
  
 Most highly recommended!


----------



## k4rstar

Well the Polaris just got here after an 11 day journey from Arizona. It's really easy to say it was worth the wait. Setup took me quite a bit as my desk situation just wasn't ready for the number of cables required by both the Modi and Polaris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I was dying to just plug in my phones and hit play.
  
 Needless to say I got a big ol' smile on my face as soon as I queued up some Christy Baron on my HD650s. I was doing a goodbye listening session with the O2/ODAC this morning to prepare myself, and I was expecting to require A/B testing to discern the differences between the setups. No need, the differences are quite night and day. 
  
 What I noticed after about 30 minutes:
 -a blacker background
 -expanded sound stage with some actual LAYERING
 -removal of any sort of "veil" or "grain" over vocals
 -improved timbre and tonality of instruments; trumpets actually sound like horns and are easily picked out in the mix
 -tighter bass, it feels like the amp has a real grip over the driver
 -less splashy treble
  
 I couldn't be happier with my purchase and I have yet to even play with any of the settings or test the HD600s. Can easily recommend the Polaris to anyone looking to step up from entry level source equipment without breaking the bank. May write a full review but I don't know if I have enough amplifier experience to do so.
  
 EDIT: Pried headphones off my head long enough to snap a picture.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

For giggles I ordered a pair of inexpensive ($2.90 each) Hosa YRA-104 RCA to Dual RCAF Y-Cables (http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YRA-104-Dual-RCAF-Y-Cable/dp/B000068O4Y) to hook my Modi 2 DAC to both the Polaris and Vali 1.  Don't need the volume control of something like a Schiit Sys.   Wanted to see if this would work without any noise.  It does very nicely!  Can operate both headphone amps at the same time without any issues at all.  No change to volume settings either as the Modi 2 has enough "umph" to drive both amps simultaneously effortlessly.  So now If I want to share things with a guest or A-B things I can.


----------



## rez11

Hello! I'm a new owner of HE-400i's and am looking into the Project Polaris amp for them, teamed with a Modi2. Anyone with experiance can give opinions? I was told 400i's partner well with warmer amps and Polaris was recommended alot over the Magni 2.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

rez11 said:


> Hello! I'm a new owner of HE-400i's and am looking into the Project Polaris amp for them, teamed with a Modi2. Anyone with experiance can give opinions? I was told 400i's partner well with warmer amps and Polaris was recommended alot over the Magni 2.


 

 Might want to try asking in the HE-400i thread since no one has responded here.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698974/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion


----------



## HOWIE13

bob a (sd) said:


> Might want to try asking in the HE-400i thread since no one has responded here.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698974/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion


 
 @ rez11
  
 FWIW I have an HE400 and it pairs very well with Polaris. Tightly articulate deep bass and controlled, non grainy, sweet treble. Mids perfect-wonderful with vocals. Ample reserves of power too.


----------



## senorx12562

howie13 said:


> @ rez11
> 
> FWIW I have an HE400 and it pairs very well with Polaris. Tightly articulate deep bass and controlled, non grainy, sweet treble. Mids perfect-wonderful with vocals. Ample reserves of power too.




Ditto with the he500s.


----------



## rez11

alright i think im pulling the trigger on the Polaris to pair with my HE-400i. Will be using Modi2uber as dac. Any recommendations on which of these settings to order Aggressive or Mellow with 400i's? i have no idea what they mean im new to this scene hehe XD


----------



## TraceStar

Aggressive is the default option right now. Basically the difference is in the top frequency. They're both the same on high bandwidth. Med and low on aggressive cuts off the high frequency faster so it'd help if your headphones have piercing highs. I find that I leave it at high all the time since my phones are rather balanced. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOWIE13

rez11 said:


> alright i think im pulling the trigger on the Polaris to pair with my HE-400i. Will be using Modi2uber as dac. Any recommendations on which of these settings to order Aggressive or Mellow with 400i's? i have no idea what they mean im new to this scene hehe XD


 
 Aggressive will allow you to reduce  the high frequencies a little more than mellow-but it's far from being an actual aggressive reduction-not like an equaliser.
  
 Jeremy will discuss what's best for you if you contact him.
  
 I leave on High setting almost all the time which means there is no reduction of the high frequencies, what you hear is the native sound.


----------



## rez11

so when do people get the Mellow version?


----------



## vapman

rez11 said:


> so when do people get the Mellow version?


 

 you mention it in the order comments, there is a menu you have to pick when order it...
  
 the pros and cons of both are heavily discussed in this thread but may require some digging


----------



## HOWIE13

rez11 said:


> so when do people get the Mellow version?


 
 Some people find the aggressive settings affect the high frequencies a bit too much. It's a very personal thing because, to me even the aggressive settings are fairly subtle.
  
 If you chat with Jeremy I think you will have a better idea which would suit you and as far as I remember if you are not happy with the version you choose Jeremy will change it for you.
  
 I also recall a table which Frans, the developer, produced explaining the differences, but I can't remember which site it's on. Jeremy will know and maybe someone reading this post will provide the link.


----------



## mowgli-kun

rez11 said:


> alright i think im pulling the trigger on the Polaris to pair with my HE-400i. Will be using Modi2uber as dac. Any recommendations on which of these settings to order Aggressive or Mellow with 400i's? i have no idea what they mean im new to this scene hehe XD


 
  
  
 I would only order Aggressive, unless you own/use any NOS DACs.
  
 The Mellow version is designed to shave of inaudible high-frequency noise when used with NOS DACs (the lowest two Bandwidth settings make no audible difference to my ears).


----------



## Bob A (SD)

I went with the mellow as the aggressive is more suited to tame headphones with very bright treble characteristics as discussed by both Jeremy and Frans.   None of mine fit that description, so....
  
 I've never read / heard anything from the Garage 1217 guys (Jeremy and Frans) that said the aggressive vs mellow option had anything to do with DACs.


----------



## rez11

they really should make their own amp+dac stack, a big part of my reason to mabye go Schiit was due to the nice appeal of both matching together on my desk lol i guess i can live without looks if im getting better sound


----------



## HOWIE13

bob a (sd) said:


> I went with the mellow as the aggressive is more suited to tame headphones with very bright treble characteristics as discussed by both Jeremy and Frans.   None of mine fit that description, so....
> 
> I've never read / heard anything from the Garage 1217 guys (Jeremy and Frans) that said the aggressive vs mellow option had anything to do with DACs.


 
 Third from bottom post on this page:
  
 http://diyah.boards.net/thread/681/project-polaris?page=1


----------



## beyondthepale35

Just caved in and bought a Polaris for my T1s. I would've gone Horizon but I don't want to deal with tubes since I'm weak and will end up spending more money than I need to on them. I've seen good things about the Polaris and lower model Beyers, has anyone used the combo before?


----------



## HOWIE13

beyondthepale35 said:


> Just caved in and bought a Polaris for my T1s. I would've gone Horizon but I don't want to deal with tubes since I'm weak and will end up spending more money than I need to on them. I've seen good things about the Polaris and lower model Beyers, has anyone used the combo before?


 
 DT: 100, 150, 880 (250), 990, 1770- all very good in their own different ways.
 Polaris can bring out the best in them as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Vanheim

Im considering buying a Polaris but I'm a bit confused as I have very little knowledge about electrical engineering. I am by no means a diy'er. So can somebody explain to me what jumpers actually are? And how to use the Polaris in general?


----------



## bixby

vanheim said:


> Im considering buying a Polaris but I'm a bit confused as I have very little knowledge about electrical engineering. I am by no means a diy'er. So can somebody explain to me what jumpers actually are? And how to use the Polaris in general?


 

 DL the Polaris Manual, it explains everything.


----------



## Vanheim

bixby said:


> DL the Polaris Manual, it explains everything.


 
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## beyondthepale35

Ugh, mine is sitting in the mailbox while I'm stuck at work doing absolutely nothing and not being sent home early. Anticipation is killing me haha.


----------



## Vanheim

Still, as a very non-diy-breaks-everything-I-touch guy. Should I be discouraged from buying the project Polaris in fear of damaging them while adjusting the settings?


----------



## k4rstar

vanheim said:


> Still, as a very non-diy-breaks-everything-I-touch guy. Should I be discouraged from buying the project Polaris in fear of damaging them while adjusting the settings?


 
  
 No, if you are afraid to assemble it yourself you can buy a pre-built kit and use it out of the box. Changing the settings involves using jumpers which is as simple as lifting a piece of plastic off of one set of pins and putting them on another. If you're unable to do that you may be incapable of using a computer and I suggest you step away from the screen


----------



## Vanheim

k4rstar said:


> No, if you are afraid to assemble it yourself you can buy a pre-built kit and use it out of the box. *Changing the settings involves using jumpers which is as simple as lifting a piece of plastic off of one set of pins and putting them on another*. If you're unable to do that you may be incapable of using a computer and I suggest you step away from the screen


 
 Oh, so that's what it is. Seems fairly simple. That's what I was looking for.
 I already knew about the pre-built ones, thanks.


----------



## HOWIE13

vanheim said:


> Oh, so that's what it is. Seems fairly simple. That's what I was looking for.
> I already knew about the pre-built ones, thanks.


 
  

 These are Jumpers.
  
 You hold the top plastic part and just slot the two sockets at the bottom end into adjacent pins that are protruding from the circuit board. Depending which pins you chose your settings change, as explained in the Polaris user manual.
 It's very simple and I can't think how you could damage your amplifier with them,
 However, Polaris has a high gain output setting and using that with the vol pot too high might not be so good for very sensitive, low impedance headphones- though that would apply to any type of gain setting, of course.


----------



## Vanheim

howie13 said:


> These are Jumpers.
> 
> You hold the top plastic part and just slot the two sockets at the bottom end into adjacent pins that are protruding from the circuit board. Depending which pins you chose your settings change, as explained in the Polaris user manual.
> It's very simple and I can't think how you could damage your amplifier with them,
> However, Polaris has a high gain output setting and using that with the vol pot too high might not be so good for very sensitive, low impedance headphones- though that would apply to any type of gain setting, of course.


 
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## rez11

Just pulled the trigger on Project Polaris pre-built-purple Aggressive for my HE-400i's also got the Modi 2 Uber to pair with it, SO EXCITEDDDD!!!


----------



## vapman

vanheim said:


> Still, as a very non-diy-breaks-everything-I-touch guy. Should I be discouraged from buying the project Polaris in fear of damaging them while adjusting the settings?


 

 Get a set of these to move the jumpers with if you're worried about being clumsy.
 it can be a little difficult to find the right pins when your fingers are covering it.
 you won't even lose one jumper, i promise!


----------



## CobraTaco

I literally have that same setup! You didn't say but i have acrylic panel. i posted some pics in this thread of the unboxing if you want to get an idea of the scale. I was actually surprised how compact and cute the Modi2U is haha


----------



## HOWIE13

rez11 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on Project Polaris pre-built-purple Aggressive for my HE-400i's also got the Modi 2 Uber to pair with it, SO EXCITEDDDD!!!


 
 Great decision you won't regret.


----------



## HOWIE13

vapman said:


> Get a set of these to move the jumpers with if you're worried about being clumsy.
> it can be a little difficult to find the right pins when your fingers are covering it.
> you won't even lose one jumper, i promise!


 
  
  
 Fingers do me for Polaris but for my LD2/2 I use the wife's tweezers when she's not looking.


----------



## Vanheim

Would sennheiser HD 800 pair well with project Polaris? I mean with the bandwidth setting on high, the HD 800 should sound quite warm right?


----------



## HOWIE13

vanheim said:


> Would sennheiser HD 800 pair well with project Polaris? I mean with the bandwidth setting on high, the HD 800 should sound quite warm right?


 
 Only going by what I've read but I thought the HD800 was quite strong in the treble area and the HD800S less so but still not exactly warm sounding -but that's only my impression-others will doubtless know more.


----------



## Vanheim

howie13 said:


> Only going by what I've read but I thought the HD800 was quite strong in the treble area and the HD800S less so but still not exactly warm sounding -but that's only my impression-others will doubtless know more.


 
 That's why. Since the sennheiser HD 800 is known for it's notorious treble, the project Polaris with it's special high frequency roll off features might provide a good solution for the HD 800. And it also has the option to change output impedance. What do you think?


----------



## HOWIE13

vanheim said:


> That's why. Since the sennheiser HD 800 is known for it's notorious treble, the project Polaris with it's special high frequency roll off features might provide a good solution for the HD 800. And it also has the option to change output impedance. What do you think?


 
 Absolutely correct thinking and I believe you have ordered the 'aggressive' version which is appropriate, I would think.
  
 However, you would not use the High bandwidth setting if you wanted to attenuate the treble as the high setting has no affect on the bandwidth. It's the 'native', sound, with no change to the bandwidth.
 You would use either the mid or low settings to reduce over bright treble. 
 Theoretically the Polaris should be ideal for the HD800/.800S because of its ability to fine tune the treble according to your preferences.


----------



## Vanheim

howie13 said:


> Absolutely correct thinking and I believe you have ordered the 'aggressive' version which is appropriate, I would think.
> 
> However, you would not use the High bandwidth setting if you wanted to attenuate the treble as the high setting has no affect on the bandwidth. It's the 'native', sound, with no change to the bandwidth.
> You would use either the mid or low settings to reduce over bright treble.
> Theoretically the Polaris should be ideal for the HD800/.800S because of its ability to fine tune the treble according to your preferences.


 
 I haven't ordered anything yet lol. I've posted a WTB add on the amplification for sale forum.


----------



## HOWIE13

vanheim said:


> I haven't ordered anything yet lol. I've posted a WTB add on the amplification for sale forum.


 
 Good luck with your quest for Polaris. 
  
 Incidently, you probably are aware that you can alter the bandwidths of each channel independently, which I've found very useful.


----------



## mowgli-kun

howie13 said:


> Good luck with your quest for Polaris.
> 
> Incidently, you probably are aware that you can alter the bandwidths of each channel independently, which I've found very useful.


 
  
 That's interesting. Why would you roll off the treble of individual channels?


----------



## HOWIE13

mowgli-kun said:


> That's interesting. Why would you roll off the treble of individual channels?


 
 Good question.
  
 I mostly listen to Classical and enjoy string quartets, where the convention is for the violins to sit on the left, as you face the stage, and the lower registered viola and cello on the right.
  
 Unfortunately, it's in the nature of many sound engineers to highlight the violin on the far left, the First Violin, as he has most of the melody and displays of bravura. This can result in an over-bright, sometimes very edgy, fatiguing sound- but only from the left channel. I would say this happens with about half of my string quartet recordings. 
  
 So it's great to be able to reduce the treble a bit, just in the left channel, whilst keeping the full frequency range for the deeper toned instruments on the right.


----------



## mowgli-kun

That's kinda brilliant. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Vanheim

Now, that is something no other amp can ever accomplish.


----------



## HOWIE13

Yes, it's like Garage 1217 think of everything to let you tune their amps to suit your needs.


----------



## senorx12562

howie13 said:


> Absolutely correct thinking and I believe you have ordered the 'aggressive' version which is appropriate, I would think.
> 
> However, you would not use the High bandwidth setting if you wanted to attenuate the treble as the high setting has no affect on the bandwidth. It's the 'native', sound, with no change to the bandwidth.
> You would use either the mid or low settings to reduce over bright treble.
> Theoretically the Polaris should be ideal for the HD800/.800S because of its ability to fine tune the treble according to your preferences.




I think the "bright" nature of the hd800 results from a peak in the fr at about 6-8k hz, which would be unaffected by the roll-off even in the low bandwidth setting on the "aggressive" version of the polaris iirc.

Edit: Sorry, my bad. Looked it up, and actually did not remember correctly, the low bandwidth setting on the aggressive version might tame that peak a bit. That's what happens when one gets old.


----------



## Vanheim

senorx12562 said:


> I think the "bright" nature of the hd800 results from a peak in the fr at about 6-8k hz, which would be unaffected by the roll-off even in the low bandwidth setting on the "aggressive" version of the polaris iirc.


 
 really? 
 that's quite unfortunate. But the 6-8k peak can be mostly fixed by the SuperDupont resonator mod right?
  
 Still after that the hd 800 remains harsh sounding and unforgiving which can be fixed by roll-off. But this is just a theory which inherently could be wrong.
  
 Also, I did contact Jeremy from garage1217 and he said that the Polaris can mostly help with the treble but it won't bring out the dip in the upper mids. I'll have to rely on eq for that...
  
 But if what Jeremy said is true and if the SuperDupont mod is also applied, then could the Sennheiser HD 800 me made into a forgiving headphone?


----------



## HOWIE13

senorx12562 said:


> I think the "bright" nature of the hd800 results from a peak in the fr at about 6-8k hz, which would be unaffected by the roll-off even in the low bandwidth setting on the "aggressive" version of the polaris iirc.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, my bad. Looked it up, and actually did not remember correctly, the low bandwidth setting on the aggressive version might tame that peak a bit. That's what happens when one gets old.


 
  
 '_That's what happens when one gets old'_
  
 Don't I know it!


----------



## Vanheim

One question, if you have a mellow bellow bandwidth can you switch it to aggressive bandwidth by moving jumpers? or is that not a flexible option?


----------



## rez11

should be getting my Polaris and modi setup today or Friday and will post my thoughts with HE-400i


----------



## senorx12562

vanheim said:


> One question, if you have a mellow bellow bandwidth can you switch it to aggressive bandwidth by moving jumpers? or is that not a flexible option?




No, but I think Jeremy can change it from one to the other if you send it to him. May be a charge, I would ask him. He is pretty responsive to emails.


----------



## HOWIE13

senorx12562 said:


> No, but I think Jeremy can change it from one to the other if you send it to him. May be a charge, I would ask him. He is pretty responsive to emails.


 
 I think I read somewhere he changes it for free, best check though.


----------



## rez11

pics! quick and dirty desk setup for now, my RCA cables for modi+polaris is real stiff and long making it ugly and cumbersome  
  
 Woohoo, both my Modi2uber + Polaris came in today, My first real AMP i think i chose right! few hours so far and already a huge improvement over my budget Fiio amp/dac, really love the craftsmanship on this amp. I'm new to audiophile stuff really and this whole setup including my 400i's isnt even a few weeks in yet! Ordered my Polaris with Aggressive, did some digging in the search thread and found alot of mixed settings opinions, i really have no idea what most do and the manual didnt exactly help but i have my Attenuation switch at the top to the WO setting, BW High, G Med, and settled on Low Restistance cuz i saw lots of people have that set, i figured since 400i's are 35ohm i should set it to Med R which i believe is 35ohm too but not sure how that setting works so i just set it to the popular Low and it all sounds amazing so far! Look forward to more hours in the setup! So excited!


----------



## senorx12562

rez11 said:


> pics! quick and dirty desk setup for now, my RCA cables for modi+polaris is real stiff and long making it ugly and cumbersome
> 
> Woohoo, both my Modi2uber + Polaris came in today, My first real AMP i think i chose right! few hours so far and already a huge improvement over my budget Fiio amp/dac, really love the craftsmanship on this amp. I'm new to audiophile stuff really and this whole setup including my 400i's isnt even a few weeks in yet! Ordered my Polaris with Aggressive, did some digging in the search thread and found alot of mixed settings opinions, i really have no idea what most do and the manual didnt exactly help but i have my Attenuation switch at the top to the WO setting, BW High, G Med, and settled on Low Restistance cuz i saw lots of people have that set, i figured since 400i's are 35ohm i should set it to Med R which i believe is 35ohm too but not sure how that setting works so i just set it to the popular Low and it all sounds amazing so far! Look forward to more hours in the setup! So excited!




I've had the best results with relatively low impedance/low sensitivity planar cans (lcd2, he500) with the R set to low, while higher impedance cans (hd600, dt880-250ohm) sound better on medium. Supposedly, a good target is to keep the ratio of headphone impedance to amplifier output impedance at least 8:1, at least with dynamic drivers. While my experience with the polaris has been consistent with this, the beauty of the thing is the ease of changing settings. I'd say do what sounds best to you, no matter what others say. Congrats, and as they say, sorry about your wallet.


----------



## HOWIE13

rez11 said:


> pics! quick and dirty desk setup for now, my RCA cables for modi+polaris is real stiff and long making it ugly and cumbersome
> 
> Woohoo, both my Modi2uber + Polaris came in today, My first real AMP i think i chose right! few hours so far and already a huge improvement over my budget Fiio amp/dac, really love the craftsmanship on this amp. I'm new to audiophile stuff really and this whole setup including my 400i's isnt even a few weeks in yet! Ordered my Polaris with Aggressive, did some digging in the search thread and found alot of mixed settings opinions, i really have no idea what most do and the manual didnt exactly help but i have my Attenuation switch at the top to the WO setting, BW High, G Med, and settled on Low Restistance cuz i saw lots of people have that set, i figured since 400i's are 35ohm i should set it to Med R which i believe is 35ohm too but not sure how that setting works so i just set it to the popular Low and it all sounds amazing so far! Look forward to more hours in the setup! So excited!


 
 You have made a great start. Congratulations!
  
 As senorx 12562 advises, trust your ears, we are all unique and G1217 acknowledge this when designing their versatile, easily configurable amps.


----------



## rez11

Is it safe to change these settings tabs while its on? or do i need to flip the switch and change thanks!


----------



## bixby

It may be safe, but you will hear a loud pop and you may damage the circuit, not sure.  Best to turn off when changing jumpers.


----------



## HOWIE13

rez11 said:


> Is it safe to change these settings tabs while its on? or do i need to flip the switch and change thanks!


 
  
 I disconnect the headphones but don't switch off when changing the gain jumper settings. If I'm increasing the gain I lower the volume level before connecting the headphones again to be safe.
  
 I don't disconnect the headphones or switch off when changing the bandwidth but there is usually a noise. I think Jeremy said somewhere that was okay but you could check with him. Otherwise you could disconnect the headphones changing the bandwidth too, especially if you don't like the noise- it can be a bit loud.


----------



## jamor

bixby said:


> It may be safe, but you will hear a loud pop and you may damage the circuit, not sure.  Best to turn off when changing jumpers.


 
  
 I'm about to jump on the Project Polaris.
  
 For my TH-X00,  Aggressive or mellow setting hooked into my Yamaha receiver for DAC seems good?
  
 I prefer a tamer treble.


----------



## jamor

jamor said:


> I'm about to jump on the Project Polaris.
> 
> For my TH-X00,  Aggressive or mellow setting hooked into my Yamaha receiver for DAC seems good?
> 
> I prefer a tamer treble.


 
  
 Ok Well jeremy told me to go with aggressive.  Hopefully it pairs well with my receiver otherwise I'll have to buy a DAC too.


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> Ok Well jeremy told me to go with aggressive.  Hopefully it pairs well with my receiver otherwise I'll have to buy a DAC too.




Does your receiver have pre-outs?


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> Does your receiver have pre-outs?


 
  
 I believe so.  Could you verify for me?
  
  
 https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/htr5840s_back.jpg


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> I believe so.  Could you verify for me?
> 
> 
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/htr5840s_back.jpg




The fact that this is a home theatre receiver complicates that for me, i've never used one as a pre. It doesn't have a dedicated pre-out though. I imagine the md/cd-r outs (rcas between the coax digital input and the digital subwoofer out bottom left) will probably work as I think they are functionally equivalent to a tape loop out, but I am not positive. In terms of sound quality, almost any outboard dac will give you better sound. I am certain that the dac in your receiver was designed for cheap more than good. What are you using as a source for your music, as your receiver has no usb input?


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> The fact that this is a home theatre receiver complicates that for me, i've never used one as a pre. It doesn't have a dedicated pre-out though. I imagine the md/cd-r outs (rcas between the coax digital input and the digital subwoofer out bottom left) will probably work as I think they are functionally equivalent to a tape loop out, but I am not positive. In terms of sound quality, almost any outboard dac will give you better sound. I am certain that the dac in your receiver was designed for cheap more than good. What are you using as a source for your music, as your receiver has no usb input?


 
  
 My TV, Yamaha receiver, speakers, xbox, and desktop computer are all interconnected via digital optical cables, HDMI, and speaker wire.  It's one big happy family. 
  
 My music source is my computer via digital optical and I can either use the TV to watch things from my computer or just cable tv or xbox by changing the input via HDMI.  I can switch between Yamaha receiver or a DAC/Amp via music input on the computer if I use both the speakers/headphone jack or a dac/amp via usb. I have a Fiio E10k but I'm probably selling it now that I purchased the Polaris. 
  
 I did some research and the DAC is an AKM AK4628.  It's a pretty old receiver though. (Yamaha HTR-5840)


----------



## jdriver

I built the kit version of the Project Polaris a couple of months ago and I'm extremely happy with it. I hadn't built a kit since about 10 years ago but I have a decent soldering station so I went for it. The kit is very well designed and with a little bit of care it's possible to build one that looks as professional as a pre-built one. I know mine looks perfect. I spent about 10 hours total on it over 5 evenings. Two hours is about as much close work as I wanted to put in but I suppose it could be done a lot faster. 
  
 I used a very old pair of Grado SR-60 for the initial power up, just to be safe. I was completely shocked by how good it made the Grado's sound! I got it mainly to use with my HE-560's and of course it works great with them also, but I was expecting that it would. The difference in the Grado's really blew me away. It's fun to just keep turning it up and hearing no strain, just a solid rise in the impact.
  
 The only thing that didn't work was the LED in the middle but I contacted Jeremy and he said just pop it out and reverse it and it worked! 100% success.
  
 For anyone considering building one here are a few tips:
  
 1. Before beginning, print out the parts list (in the user manual) and do an inventory of what you got. Mine was missing a pair of caps and I was able to start building while I waited for Jeremy to send them. You don't want to be in the middle of it and find you don't have a part.
 2. Use the solder he recommends. It's only $5 and cleanup is easy and I believe it contributes to the professional look of the finished product.
 3. Follow the directions! Install the smallest components first and work your way up.
 4. Keep a fan running somewhere nearby so you don't suffer too much of the fumes from soldering. It is lead after all.
 5. To get the backing paper off of the covers, take a piece of duct tape and press it firmly(!) on one corner and then peel it back and the paper comes with it.
  
 I'd love to build another one of their amps but I have no need of any. I highly recommend this amp.


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> My TV, Yamaha receiver, speakers, xbox, and desktop computer are all interconnected via digital optical cables, HDMI, and speaker wire.  It's one big happy family.
> 
> My music source is my computer via digital optical and I can either use the TV to watch things from my computer or just cable tv or xbox by changing the input via HDMI.  I can switch between Yamaha receiver or a DAC/Amp via music input on the computer if I use both the speakers/headphone jack or a dac/amp via usb. I have a Fiio E10k but I'm probably selling it now that I purchased the Polaris.
> 
> I did some research and the DAC is an [COLOR=333333]AKM AK4628.  [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]It's a pretty old receiver though. (Yamaha HTR-5840)[/COLOR]




The dac in the fiio might actually be better than that in the Yamaha, don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. You might be surprised at how much better a more modern dac solution might sound. Then again, maybe not. Maybe someone else on this thread can tell you whether those record outs are line-level. Anyone? Good luck mate, congrats on the amp. Love mine.


----------



## vapman

find out what dac chip in in both and we'll tell which which dac is better


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> The dac in the fiio might actually be better than that in the Yamaha, don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. You might be surprised at how much better a more modern dac solution might sound. Then again, maybe not. Maybe someone else on this thread can tell you whether those record outs are line-level. Anyone? Good luck mate, congrats on the amp. Love mine.


 
  
  


vapman said:


> find out what dac chip in in both and we'll tell which which dac is better


 
  
 PCM5102 *DAC is in the E10k and *AKM AK4628 is in the Yamaha.
  
If they are both garbage I suppose I should just buy a DAC.


----------



## vapman

jamor said:


> PCM5102 *DAC is in the E10k and *AKM AK4628 is in the Yamaha.
> 
> If they are both garbage I suppose I should just buy a DAC.


 

 PCM5102 is trash
 AK4628 is low end for AK/AKM DACs but should get the job done, nice and clean.
 If you don't like the sound, look into other DACS


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> The dac in the fiio might actually be better than that in the Yamaha, don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. You might be surprised at how much better a more modern dac solution might sound. Then again, maybe not. Maybe someone else on this thread can tell you whether those record outs are line-level. Anyone? Good luck mate, congrats on the amp. Love mine.


 
  
  


vapman said:


> PCM5102 is trash
> AK4628 is low end for AK/AKM DACs but should get the job done, nice and clean.
> If you don't like the sound, look into other DACS


 
  
  

  

  
  
 I got these from the manual.   Do any of these descriptions sound like these jacks would work as a pre-out for the Polaris?


----------



## vapman

jamor said:


> I got these from the manual.   Do any of these descriptions sound like these jacks would work as a pre-out for the Polaris?


 
  


jamor said:


> I got these from the manual.   Do any of these descriptions sound like these jacks would work as a pre-out for the Polaris?


 
 well the polaris already had a pre out...... . so i would try to bypass the preamp
  
 looks like you want to use the front out and then maybe subwooder output if you whave one


----------



## jamor

vapman said:


> well the polaris already had a pre out...... . so i would try to bypass the preamp
> 
> looks like you want to use the front out and then maybe subwooder output if you whave one


 
  
 Yes I have 1 subwoofer output but its using a subwoofer


----------



## vapman

jamor said:


> Yes I have 1 subwoofer output but its using a subwoofer


 
  


jamor said:


> Yes I have 1 subwoofer output but its using a subwoofer


 
 SEND the line out to a passive preamp and use that to control lveels.


----------



## senorx12562

Contrary to the implications of what vapman said, you can't say a dac is "trash" just because of the chip it uses. If you are happy with the sound from the Yamaha, you should try to use it first if you don't want to spend money for an outboard dac. As to his advice re getting a signal to the polaris, i don't know what the hell he is talking about. I still think you can make it work by using the md/cd-r out jacks with rca cables to the polaris' in jacks. 

While I believe you will probably get better sound (especially with headphones) from spending some extra $ on a dedicated dac, you can always do that later if necessary.


----------



## menieres

@jamor  -  Try the out (rec) of your receiver > connect to polaris input
  
                   Subwooper output may be mono.


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> Contrary to the implications of what vapman said, you can't say a dac is "trash" just because of the chip it uses. If you are happy with the sound from the Yamaha, you should try to use it first if you don't want to spend money for an outboard dac. As to his advice re getting a signal to the polaris, i don't know what the hell he is talking about. I still think you can make it work by using the md/cd-r out jacks with rca cables to the polaris' in jacks.
> 
> While I believe you will probably get better sound (especially with headphones) from spending some extra $ on a dedicated dac, you can always do that later if necessary.


 
  
  


menieres said:


> @jamor  -  Try the out (rec) of your receiver > connect to polaris input
> 
> Subwooper output may be mono.


 
  
  
 I just purchased some RCA cables and I'll try those suggestions out.  I don't have a good feeling it's going to work though because the model up from the Yamaha I have specifically has a documentation for pre-out connections and connecting external amplifiers while my model doesn't.   If not, I could just get an O2 Dac or a Modi 2 uber? Unless there's something better in that price range.  I'm still waiting for the Polaris to ship though.


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> I just purchased some RCA cables and I'll try those suggestions out.  I don't have a good feeling it's going to work though because the model up from the Yamaha I have specifically has a documentation for pre-out connections and connecting external amplifiers while my model doesn't.   If not, I could just get an O2 Dac or a Modi 2 uber? Unless there's something better in that price range.  I'm still waiting for the Polaris to ship though.




What you need is a line-level analog out, which is essentially what the record out typically is. That should also mean that the volume will not be variable, so you will use the polaris volume control for headphone listening. If you decide a new dac is in order, at that price I would definitely go with the modi 2 uber over the Odac. Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## menieres

You can also use the headphone jack if the above does not work.
 Get a headphone jack (whatever is the size) to RCA cable and connect to Polaris input. You can use both the volume control of your receiver and the Polaris.


----------



## senorx12562

menieres said:


> You can also use the headphone jack if the above does not work.
> Get a headphone jack (whatever is the size) to RCA cable and connect to Polaris input. You can use both the volume control of your receiver and the Polaris.




Wouldn't this kind of defeat the purpose of a stand alone hp amp though, seeing as how this would pass the signal through the headphone amp of the receiver, including all the attendant circuitry and switches? I assumed the point was to upgrade from that.


----------



## menieres

senorx12562 said:


> Wouldn't this kind of defeat the purpose of a stand alone hp amp though, seeing as how this would pass the signal through the headphone amp of the receiver, including all the attendant circuitry and switches? I assumed the point was to upgrade from that.


 
  
 It will depend on the headphone your using. I think high impedance headphones will sound better even if the headphone amp is connected to headphone jack of a receiver rather than directly connecting the can to the receiver. Do both ways and hear which is better.
  
 This is just a temporary solution until you can get a stand alone DAC or if the *record out* of your receiver will not work.


----------



## rez11

Question: 
  
 So the gains are there for varying headphones "from IEMs to planars" i have planars 400i 35ohm i think, ive found Low G to be great and sufficent so far i was wondering if that was optimal and if it should be on Med G for planars, i dont understand how it works really so i just wanted to ask you guys, im sure theres enough power for them even on LowG just wanted to speak up. I have to play at a lower volume due to tinnitus and its usually at or just above 9o'clock on dial, 9 seems more than loud enough even on LowG so im guessing MedG would make me use dial lower than 9, i read that its suggested to stay at 9 or above due to possible imbalance and i guess it works out that i play at 9 mostly.


----------



## k4rstar

rez11 said:


> Question:
> 
> So the gains are there for varying headphones "from IEMs to planars" i have planars 400i 35ohm i think, ive found Low G to be great and sufficent so far i was wondering if that was optimal and if it should be on Med G for planars, i dont understand how it works really so i just wanted to ask you guys, im sure theres enough power for them even on LowG just wanted to speak up. I have to play at a lower volume due to tinnitus and its usually at or just above 9o'clock on dial, 9 seems more than loud enough even on LowG so im guessing MedG would make me use dial lower than 9.


 
  
It's always best to use the lowest gain necessary. Doing so ensures the best possible noise floor. Setting higher gain and lower volume will unnecessary increase background noise.

In other words, only switch to high gain when you're unable to reach desired volume at low gain.


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> Wouldn't this kind of defeat the purpose of a stand alone hp amp though, seeing as how this would pass the signal through the headphone amp of the receiver, including all the attendant circuitry and switches? I assumed the point was to upgrade from that.


 
  


menieres said:


> It will depend on the headphone your using. I think high impedance headphones will sound better even if the headphone amp is connected to headphone jack of a receiver rather than directly connecting the can to the receiver. Do both ways and hear which is better.
> 
> This is just a temporary solution until you can get a stand alone DAC or if the *record out* of your receiver will not work.


 
  
  
 Yes definitely looking for an upgrade.  I have Fostex TH-X00 and they need a Zero impedance output but I like that the Polaris has flexibility in the case that I buy a higher impedance headphone.   That's why the Receiver is not a good amp for the Fostex.  
  
 For the record out, I need a line-level analogue out and the RCA would go from that to the Polaris?  Then what connects the line-level to the receiver? RCA to --?  Is that what *FiiO** **TAISHAN-D03K is?*


----------



## senorx12562

k4rstar said:


> [COLOR=222222]It's always best to use the lowest gain necessary. Doing so ensures the best possible noise floor. Setting higher gain and lower volume will unnecessary increase background noise.[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]In other words, only switch to high gain when you're unable to reach desired volume at low gain.[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR]




This. In fact, you didn't mention the setting for input attenuation you are using, but i would try the A mode, if you're not already, to see if you can get a little higher on the volume knob to avoid potential channel imbalance.


----------



## rez11

senorx12562 said:


> This. In fact, you didn't mention the setting for input attenuation you are using, but i would try the A mode, if you're not already, to see if you can get a little higher on the volume knob to avoid potential channel imbalance.


 
  
 i use the WO/AM after reading that it does something to treble and i didnt want my sound changed any really but i will try with the Att on


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> Yes definitely looking for an upgrade.  I have Fostex TH-X00 and they need a Zero impedance output but I like that the Polaris has flexibility in the case that I buy a higher impedance headphone.   That's why the Receiver is not a good amp for the Fostex.
> 
> For the record out, I need a line-level analogue out and the RCA would go from that to the Polaris?  Then what connects the line-level to the receiver? RCA to --?  Is that what *FiiO*
> [COLOR=1A5888]* *[/COLOR]*TAISHAN-D03K is?*




The record out _is_ an analog line level out, thus you just plug one end of each rca cable (one right, one left, usually red and white) into each of the bottom rca outs (labeled md/cd-r out in the audio out section on the back panel just right of the coaxial in) and the other ends into the corresponding input jacks on the polaris. You need nothing else. The line outs on the polaris are only used if you wanted to use the polaris as a preamp to another device, presumably a power amp. You won't be using them given your current setup, as a receiver by definition already contains a preamp circuit. The fiio is essentially a small cheap dac, converting s/pdif (always a digital signal and only one plug) to right and left rca (always analog). Since you are using the dac in the receiver, the signal has already been converted before it exits via the record outs.


----------



## senorx12562

rez11 said:


> i use the WO/AM after reading that it does something to treble and i didnt want my sound changed any really but i will try with the Att on




I am curious where you read that, as maybe I should take a second look at my settings. Don't want to change anything I'm not intending to, don't ya know.


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> The record out _is_ an analog line level out, thus you just plug one end of each rca cable (one right, one left, usually red and white) into each of the bottom rca outs (labeled md/cd-r out in the audio out section on the back panel just right of the coaxial in) and the other ends into the corresponding input jacks on the polaris. You need nothing else. The line outs on the polaris are only used if you wanted to use the polaris as a preamp to another device, presumably a power amp. You won't be using them given your current setup, as a receiver by definition already contains a preamp circuit. The fiio is essentially a small cheap dac, converting s/pdif (always a digital signal and only one plug) to right and left rca (always analog). Since you are using the dac in the receiver, the signal has already been converted before it exits via the record outs.


 
  
 Oh I get it.  Great explanation thanks.  I'll let you guys know how it goes.  I'm not super hopeful it will work but I am very excited!


----------



## mandrake50

jamor said:


> Oh I get it.  Great explanation thanks.  I'll let you guys know how it goes.  I'm not super hopeful it will work but I am very excited!


 

 One thing to consider, on most receivers after a certain time digital signals from the input are not passed to the analog outputs. This is done to prevent copying digital material. Your optical signals, or coax, may not (likely will not) be available from the MD or VCR outputs.
  
 I have a similar situation using a Denon 3808. I use an FM transmitter. This is equivalent to what is required to drive the analog inputs on the Polaris. Using the recording output I can only get analog inputs to output from the recording out jacks. I have to use the main channel line outs to get all inputs to produce signal to the transmitter. The downside is that only the front left and right channels go to the transmitter. Multi channel inputs sound pretty bad. I do not see any true line outputs on the Yamaha.. So, if you can get analog out of your source to one of the analog inputs on the receiver, you will be fine using one of the record outputs. Otherwise, you will be unable to get the signal out to the Polaris.
  
 You would not use the subwoofer output at all for driving the Polaris. It is a mono signal (depending on the receiver and settings, a combination of the low frequencies from all channels) and is crossed over to only allow low frequencies to be output. Too bad, because this output will be active for all input signals. It is the only output on your machine that is a real preamp output.


----------



## jamor

mandrake50 said:


> One thing to consider, on most receivers after a certain time digital signals from the input are not passed to the analog outputs. This is done to prevent copying digital material. Your optical signals, or coax, may not (likely will not) be available from the MD or VCR outputs.
> 
> I have a similar situation using a Denon 3808. I use an FM transmitter. This is equivalent to what is required to drive the analog inputs on the Polaris. Using the recording output I can only get analog inputs to output from the recording out jacks. I have to use the main channel line outs to get all inputs to produce signal to the transmitter. The downside is that only the front left and right channels go to the transmitter. Multi channel inputs sound pretty bad. I do not see any true line outputs on the Yamaha.. So, if you can get analog out of your source to one of the analog inputs on the receiver, you will be fine using one of the record outputs. Otherwise, you will be unable to get the signal out to the Polaris.
> 
> You would not use the subwoofer output at all for driving the Polaris. It is a mono signal (depending on the receiver and settings, a combination of the low frequencies from all channels) and is crossed over to only allow low frequencies to be output. Too bad, because this output will be active for all input signals. It is the only output on your machine that is a real preamp output.


 
  
 Good info thanks.  Doesn't sound promising though!  I'll have it Monday so we'll see. I better start looking for a DAC.


----------



## jamor

Just got it in.  Cute little bugger. 
  
 So far it doesn't work on my Receiver unless I'm doing something wrong 
  
 So I guess I better find a DAC.


----------



## menieres

jamor said:


> Just got it in.  Cute little bugger.
> 
> So far it doesn't work on my Receiver unless I'm doing something wrong
> 
> So I guess I better find a DAC.


 
  
 What is your source?


----------



## jamor

menieres said:


> What is your source?


 
  
 Desktop Computer <----Optical cable ----> Yamaha HTR-5840 Receiver <-- RCA -->  Project Polaris <--> TH-X00 Headphones
  
 If Receiver won't work with the Polaris (which so far it doesn't) it will have to be:
  
 Desktop Computer <---> Project Polaris + DAC <--> TH-X00 Headphones


----------



## menieres

jamor said:


> Desktop Computer <----Optical cable ----> Yamaha HTR-5840 Receiver <-- RCA -->  Project Polaris <--> TH-X00 Headphones
> 
> If Receiver won't work with the Polaris (which so far it doesn't) it will have to be:
> 
> Desktop Computer <---> Project Polaris + DAC <--> TH-X00 Headphones


 
  
 Connect out(rec) of receiver to Polaris and play with your input selector. Disable your speakers.
  or
  
 If you have a CD player, connect the CD player (RCA connector) to Polaris just so you can listen to Polaris.
  
 Or buy a 3.5 to RCA cable at Walmart (less than $7). Computer-> 3.5 to RCA (headphone jack or powered speaker jack of computer) -> Polaris
 just so  you can use the Polaris until you can get a DAC.


----------



## jamor

menieres said:


> Connect out(rec) of receiver to Polaris and play with your input selector. Disable your speakers.
> or
> 
> If you have a CD player, connect the CD player (RCA connector) to Polaris just so you can listen to Polaris.
> ...


 
  
 Ok thanks.  Not getting it to work from the rec-out.  Tried all the inputs.  I'lI just buy a Schiit Modi 2 Uber.  It has an AK4490 chip now so that made it an easy choice.


----------



## senorx12562

jamor said:


> Ok thanks.  Not getting it to work from the rec-out.  Tried all the inputs.  I'lI just buy a Schiit Modi 2 Uber.  It has an AK4490 chip now so that made it an easy choice.




Sorry man, thought it was worth a shot. Think you will really like the end result though.


----------



## rez11

has anyone sent back their Polaris to get the chassis changed? i think i want to change to the metal one can i do that?


----------



## TraceStar

rez11 said:


> has anyone sent back their Polaris to get the chassis changed? i think i want to change to the metal one can i do that?




You don't need to send it back. Just order the metal chassis. You just need the right size alan key to open the screws. If you're ordering the metal chassis, might as well order thumb screws so it'd be easier to swap the chassis in the future.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## senorx12562

tracestar said:


> You don't need to send it back. Just order the metal chassis. You just need the right size alan key to open the screws. If you're ordering the metal chassis, might as well order thumb screws so it'd be easier to swap the chassis in the future.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




Mine actually came with the allen key too.


----------



## TraceStar

senorx12562 said:


> tracestar said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need to send it back. Just order the metal chassis. You just need the right size alan key to open the screws. If you're ordering the metal chassis, might as well order thumb screws so it'd be easier to swap the chassis in the future.
> ...




Uh, I threw away the plastic wrapper and whatnot. Might have thrown away the Allen key if it was packaged together lol

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## senorx12562

tracestar said:


> Uh, I threw away the plastic wrapper and whatnot. Might have thrown away the Allen key if it was packaged together lol
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




It was in a little ziplock along with an extra attenuation module (to reduce gain for iems). 3/32 in.


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> It was in a little ziplock along with an extra attenuation module (to reduce gain for iems). 3/32 in.


 
  
 Hmmm I just purchased Project Polaris and never received an extra attenuation module.  Should I have received one?


----------



## senorx12562

Don't know. Prior to purchasing mine i emailed jeremy about use with iems, so that could've prompted it's inclusion if it's not automatic. I got the aluminum chassis, but that shouldn't matter. If you are curious, you should email Jeremy about it.


----------



## jamor

senorx12562 said:


> Don't know. Prior to purchasing mine i emailed jeremy about use with iems, so that could've prompted it's inclusion if it's not automatic. I got the aluminum chassis, but that shouldn't matter. If you are curious, you should email Jeremy about it.


 
  
 Well the manual says 
  


> INPUT ATTENUATION CAN BE CHANGED VIA THE JUMPER TABS AT THE BACK, RIGHT HAND CORNER OF THE AMPLIFIER. DEFAULT SETTING IS *WITH *ATTENUATION MODULE.
> 
> CUSTOM ATTENUATION MODULES CAN BE EASILY CREATED LOWER LEVELS OVERALL. THIS CAN BE VERY USEFUL FOR SUPER SENSITIVE HEADPHONES SUCH AS IEM’S.


 
  
 Which sounds like it's already installed by default and you can remove it?   I guess I'd have to e-mail him.


----------



## Tunkejazz

As far as I understood it, there is always an attenuation module mounted in the amp, but Jeremy may have changed it for a more aggressive version for use with IEMs. Probably you also got the default module on the side.


----------



## HOWIE13

The attenuation module Jeremy provides by default is probably not of high enough resistance value for super-sensitive IEM's.
 If he knows in advance that you want to specifically use IEM's he will likely provide a module with higher resistance than the stock default one.
 What I don't know is whether this higher resistance module is provided _in addition_ to the standard stock one or _instead_. It probably depends on what headphones you tell Jeremy you use.
 You can be sure Jeremy will do whatever necessary to ensure the module suits your requirements, as long as you tell him of course.
  
 Actually it's very easy to make your own modules. You can purchase the DIP-8 sockets and resistors from Jeremy, or Mouser if in Europe and want to avoid costly postage, Customs duty etc.


----------



## senorx12562

howie13 said:


> The attenuation module Jeremy provides by default is probably not of high enough resistance value for super-sensitive IEM's.
> If he knows in advance that you want to specifically use IEM's he will likely provide a module with higher resistance than the stock default one.
> What I don't know is whether this higher resistance module is provided _in addition_ to the standard stock one or _instead_. It probably depends on what headphones you tell Jeremy you use.
> You can be sure Jeremy will do whatever necessary to ensure the module suits your requirements, as long as you tell him of course.
> ...




The resistors on the module that came installed have 1002f printed on them, the ones on the extra module say 1003f on them, and I think the latter are the higher resistance ones. Since I use everything from iems to planars to high impedance full-size cans, he sent both.


----------



## HOWIE13

senorx12562 said:


> The resistors on the module that came installed have 1002f printed on them, the ones on the extra module say 1003f on them, and I think the latter are the higher resistance ones. Since I use everything from iems to planars to high impedance full-size cans, he sent both.


 
 I think the 1002f is 10kohm and the 1003f is 100kohm-  not 100% sure though. I don't know what the 'f' after the code means.


----------



## Drrizzt

I notice i have channel imbalance with my polaris sometimes. I have to reajust the volume a little bit in order to get it fixed, very strange as i don't think i had this problem before.


----------



## jamor

drrizzt said:


> I notice i have channel imbalance with my polaris sometimes. I have to reajust the volume a little bit in order to get it fixed, very strange as i don't think i had this problem before.


 
  
 I think the manual says that if you have to keep the Volume knob above 9:00 to avoid channel imbalance


----------



## HOWIE13

jamor said:


> I think the manual says that if you have to keep the Volume knob above 9:00 to avoid channel imbalance


 
 CANCELLED.


----------



## HOWIE13

drrizzt said:


> I notice i have channel imbalance with my polaris sometimes. I have to reajust the volume a little bit in order to get it fixed, very strange as i don't think i had this problem before.


 
  
 If the vol pot is above 9 o'clock and you still have channel imbalance and it's consistent with several recordings and different headphones I would contact Jeremy as there may be as issue with the potentiometer.
  
 If the balance is normal above 9 o'clock and only imbalanced below 9 o'clock that is normal.
  
 If you have to listen below 9 o'clock regularly because to go above that setting results in too high a volume you can reduce the input level by invoking the input attenuation module or reduce the gain using the gain jumper.


----------



## jamor

howie13 said:


> If the vol pot is above 9 o'clock and you still have channel imbalance and it's consistent with several recordings and different headphones I would contact Jeremy as there may be as issue with the potentiometer.
> 
> If the balance is normal above 9 o'clock and only imbalanced below 9 o'clock that is normal.
> 
> If you have to listen below 9 o'clock regularly because to go above that setting results in too high a volume you can reduce the input level by invoking the input attenuation module or reduce the gain using the gain jumper.


 
  
 Do you mean buying a new input attenuation module or just adjusting the module?
  
 Per the manual, the default setting is already WITH the attentuation module so you'd have to get a more sensitive custom module I think.
  
 If you told him before the order you have something really sensitive I think he would throw in a sensitive module for free.


----------



## HOWIE13

jamor said:


> Do you mean buying a new input attenuation module or just adjusting the module?
> 
> Per the manual, the default setting is already WITH the attentuation module so you'd have to get a more sensitive custom module I think.
> 
> If you told him before the order you have something really sensitive I think he would throw in a sensitive module for free.


 
 Well we have not yet learned whether drrizzt's problem is because he can't go above 9 o'clock yet.


----------



## Drrizzt

The problem occurs at any sound level, it's not really bothering me but i was surprised. The thing is i live in europe, i don't want to send it out and losing my time with that :/


----------



## HOWIE13

drrizzt said:


> The problem occurs at any sound level, it's not really bothering me but i was surprised. The thing is i live in europe, i don't want to send it out and losing my time with that :/


 
 I would contact Jeremy if it becomes a problem for you. Personally I hate channel imbalance.
  
 PS I now recall that many years ago I had a similar problem and it was only solved after I went to the doctor and had my ears syringed.


----------



## Amish

Yeah Jeremy is one rare dude. As in he is super involved with his product and his customers. He is really easy to get a hold of and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## nk126

Hey Everybody
  
 As of last week I'm a first-time Polaris owner. Picked up a like-new used model from another Head-Fi'er ... Acrylic chassis and purple LED. 
  
 Using it to drive HE-560s from a Macbook Air -> Modi. After fiddling around last week with A/Bing it against my Magni 2 and 20 year old Onkyo receiver, today I just plugged in and started listening while getting my work day going.
  
 #Bliss
  
 I searched this thread and found some recs for the jumper settings, but if anybody else wants to recommend settings for use with 560s, I'm all ears.
  
 Cheers,
 Noah


----------



## HOWIE13

nk126 said:


> Hey Everybody
> 
> As of last week I'm a first-time Polaris owner. Picked up a like-new used model from another Head-Fi'er ... Acrylic chassis and purple LED.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratulations, Noah.
  
 You have many more blissful moments to come.
  
 Personally I would trust your own ears first, play with the settings and then compare notes with what others think.
  
 I find it more fun that way!


----------



## BRMSlash

Now I've settled on a nice tube (6SN7EH) for my Sunrise, I thought I'd try and get my Polaris to sound similar.  Currently my settings are W/AM (30k), Medium Bandwidth (mellow version), Medium High Gain, Medium Output Resistance.  I feel this strikes the right balance of gain, channel separation, warmth, reverberation & treble smoothness.  I still prefer the Sunrise, but it's pretty close.
  
 PC (24bit 44.1k USB) -> Schiit Bifrost 4490 -> Polaris -> Sennheiser HD598's
  
 EDIT: Oops, I was actually using high gain, not medium.


----------



## HOWIE13

brmslash said:


> Now I've settled on a nice tube (6SN7EH) for my Sunrise, I thought I'd try and get my Polaris to sound similar.  Currently my settings are W/AM (30k), Medium Bandwidth (mellow version), Medium Gain, Medium Output Resistance.  I feel this strikes the right balance of gain, channel separation, warmth, reverberation & treble smoothness.  I still prefer the Sunrise, but it's pretty close.
> 
> PC (24bit 44.1k USB) -> Schiit Bifrost 4490 -> Polaris -> Sennheiser HD598's


 
 It's hard to define the typical sound of G1217 tube amps as, besides tube rolling, they can be configured in so many other ways too to suit your sonic requirements.
  
 Polaris, unlike most SS amps, is also very configurable but it's underlying sound signature is closer to 'tube sound' than most SS amps.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

howie13 said:


> Polaris, unlike most SS amps, is also very configurable but it's underlying sound signature is closer to 'tube sound' than most SS amps.


 
 Which is why I like it so and why it was for me the right upgrade from the Vali 1.


----------



## HOWIE13

bob a (sd) said:


> Which is why I like it so and why it was for me the right upgrade from the Vali 1.


 
 I'm very pleased Polaris was the correct upgrade for you.
  
 I see you have the HD600, I use them a lot too- perfect synergy with Polaris.


----------



## rez11

really about to order the aluminum case to replace my see-through version. anyone with the solid Aluminum cover can post a pic?


----------



## k4rstar

rez11 said:


> really about to order the aluminum case to replace my see-through version. anyone with the solid Aluminum cover can post a pic?


 
  
 See my listing for some close up pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Letting mine go, lovely amp but want to focus on my portable setup
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/816703/garage1217-project-polaris-headphone-amplifier-aluminum-chassis


----------



## jamor

Right now I have the Polaris paired with Modi Multibit & TH-X00.  
  
 Really love it.


----------



## iamxLn

How's the bass punch with the modi multibit and Polaris?


----------



## nk126

And now I've moved into the lossless vs compressed music stage of my rabbit hole ... The same tracks really do sound better as local FLACs than streamed files, don't they? Yay, fidelity! Boo, tempted to buy more stuff!


----------



## Tunkejazz

nk126 said:


> And now I've moved into the lossless vs compressed music stage of my rabbit hole ... The same tracks really do sound better as local FLACs than streamed files, don't they? Yay, fidelity! Boo, tempted to buy more stuff!




To me lossy compressed music sounds softer than Flac. Hard to put the finger on individual aspects, but I can really tell when listening to, e.g., acoustic guitars. All my cds have been ripped to flac


----------



## FatTeemo

I just want to say that this amp sounds fine with my HD 800. I have it paired with a modi multibit and the HD 800 sounds noticeably better on it compared to my previous headphones (T50rp & modded HD 700). You can definitely notice the increase in imaging, detail, and soundstage abilities. I heard it for like 5 minutes on the bifrost and vahalla combo which sounds a bit fuller, but then it was only for 5 minutes so take that with a huge grain of salt.
  
 Edit: I am also listening to it with the superdupont mod and an impact audio copper cable that came with my purchase. I don't hear any treble issues or thinness. So far I am confused about why people think this is such a bright phone. On the other hand, the modi multibit, project polaris, superdupont mod, and copper cable all increases warm by a bit so maybe that's why.


----------



## vapman

iamxln said:


> How's the bass punch with the modi multibit and Polaris?


 

 i used to get killer bass when EQ was used using a comparable DAC


----------



## notfitforpublic

Im being a little lazy here I know, but can anyone point me to a Canadian source for LED's for the Polaris (white or White/Blue)? Maybe a link?
 From what I gathered from this thread I'm looking for 1.9 - 3.2V 3/8"  LED's,  yes?


----------



## FatTeemo

Just my two cents. My HD 800 with superdupont resonator and stock cable sounds best with attenuation off, high bandwidth, low gain, and medium resistance.


----------



## bixby

notfitforpublic said:


> Im being a little lazy here I know, but can anyone point me to a Canadian source for LED's for the Polaris (white or White/Blue)? Maybe a link?
> From what I gathered from this thread I'm looking for 1.9 - 3.2V 3/8"  LED's,  yes?


 

 uh, do they have google up in the great white north?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
lmgtfy


----------



## HOWIE13

bixby said:


> uh, do they have google up in the great white north?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Jeremy would sell you some, I'm sure.


----------



## notfitforpublic

bixby said:


> uh, do they have google up in the great white north?
> 
> lmgtfy




Ya ya ya, one of the dogs on my sled tripped over the phone cord outside yanking the Internet connection from my igloo. It was tragic but the dog survived 

Found em, and no, I didn't have to look that hard (hangs head in shame). More concerned on finding the right kind but apparently that's not a big deal either. I will scurry back into corner now.


----------



## Magic77

Just got my new Project Polaris yesterday. Only 3 hours of listening so far, but I am really impressed with this amp. I'm just starting to tweak some of the settings. Sounds awesome!


----------



## HOWIE13

magic77 said:


> Just got my new Project Polaris yesterday. Only 3 hours of listening so far, but I am really impressed with this amp. I'm just starting to tweak some of the settings. Sounds awesome!


 
  
 Congratulations-take your time and enjoy!


----------



## Drrizzt

I just got a new headphones for my Polaris, the outstanding Audeze Lcd-2.2 prefazor. And i feel miss Polaris is on the verge of colapsing, she performs at his max capacilities, because in low gain, the sound lacks of dynamics, it's a bit flabby, the Lcd really come to life in high gain, but high gain is not the ideal when it comes to distorsion and soundstage, it becomes narrower.
  
 I feel the Audeze could benefit from a higher quality amp than miss Polaris. Nevertheless, for its price it's still a bargain.


----------



## HOWIE13

drrizzt said:


> I just got a new headphones for my Polaris, the outstanding Audeze Lcd-2.2 prefazor. And i feel miss Polaris is on the verge of colapsing, she performs at his max capacilities, because in low gain, the sound lacks of dynamics, it's a bit flabby, the Lcd really come to life in high gain, but high gain is not the ideal when it comes to distorsion and soundstage, it becomes narrower.
> 
> I feel the Audeze could benefit from a higher quality amp than miss Polaris. Nevertheless, for its price it's still a bargain.


 
  
 That's a pity.
 Hopefully someone who has those headphones will comment here but I'm surprised a relatively powerful HA like Polaris should be distorting and having soundstage problems at high output.
  
 You could contact G1217 and ask Jeremy if he is aware of any known problems between Polaris and your headphones. He's very knowledgeable and helpful.
  
 You could also post a question on DIYAH. They have a wealth of knowledge there and Frans (Solderdude), who designed the amp with Jeremy who builds them, is always most helpful.


----------



## Drrizzt

I feel this is not an issue and in conformity with what i have read once about setting ouf little amp gems in high gain, that it could affect a little bit the soundstage. The article was posted on headphonia, i will try to find it out, that was interesting.


----------



## HOWIE13

drrizzt said:


> I feel this is not an issue and in conformity with what i have read once about setting ouf little amp gems in high gain, that it could affect a little bit the soundstage. The article was posted on headphonia, i will try to find it out, that was interesting.


 
  
 That would be interesting. I've wondered what it is in the auditory spectrum that contributes to the impression of sound-stage.


----------



## Drrizzt

http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/


----------



## HOWIE13

drrizzt said:


> http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/


 
  
 Thanks for the link. I certainly notice a cleaner background in general at low gain and, when I can, I prefer to use low gain than high for that reason.
  
 I've never noticed a difference in sound-stage though and I don't keep my vol pot at 3 o'clock, though he may have a point there. I like mine above 9 for good channel balance, but below 12. I feel the amp has more headroom there than if the vol pot is almost maxed out. But then I listen mainly to Classical which is often recorded at a lower level than other genres because of the wide dynamic range required. 
  
 There are situations though were a headphone does sound much better at high gain. With Vali2 for instance my HD600/650 sound very much richer and the sound fills out much better at high gain.(others have noticed this too).
 I guess It just depends on the amp and can.


----------



## raoultrifan

Technically, lowest gain setting will provide best signal/noise ratio because there's lowest amplificaton in the voltage gain stage, so it would be wise to use the lowest gain when possible. Also, I have a kid around my desk and it much safer to know that I'm using the lowest gain setting, at least when I'm heading to the bathroom. 

I had the feeling myself that with high gain on some headamps (sorry, I don't own Polaris) dynamic is better, but there is a high chance that voltage gain stage (solid-state or opamps) to perform differently, depending on the gain used and also if it's inside or outside the output stage loop.


----------



## iancraig10

Also try listening at slightly lower volumes. The dynamic range seems to improve sometimes.


----------



## Drrizzt

It's a trade-off, better dynamics and punchier sound vs clean technicalities.
  
 I feel the Lcd-2 bass is tighter when miss Polaris is set to high gain. I guess it depends on one's taste...


----------



## jbarrentine

So recently I've been through several dacs in the search for a successor for my hrt music streamer II+. Everything was paired with my Polaris and HD600s.
  
 The iFi iDac2. Exceptionally digital sounding. Might be good for people who like electronic/techno, etc, but otherwise should be avoided. I have no idea why this is a seemingly popular dac here on headfi. It sounds nothing like real life. It's also a bit shouty. It does make instruments jump out at you from the background in a very in your face kind of way. That might be why people call it "fun". 
  
 The Meridian Director. Contrary to the iDac2 this dac is not digital sounding. It's lifelike. But man is it boring. It does drag everything out of the background detail wise but it doesn't do much with it. There's no sense of experience, it's just rather flat. I can see people who like detail but don't want an abrasive dac really liking this dac. Would be good for things like jazz in particular. 
  
 The HRT Music Streamer HD. A very worthy successor to the Music Streamer II+. A happy compromise between the styles of the previous amps. Very detail driven, but with enough grunt to make you take notice of of the music without abusing you. 
  
 The Schiit Modi Multibit ( Mimby ). This is the best value in the price range. Exceptionally organic sounding. It has a quality every other dac in this list lacks. It's really like listening to a live performance. After trying this dac I am a firm believer in multibit. Not as detail oriented as the Meridian Director or HRT Music Streamer HD, but makes up for it in spades with a natural sound. It sounds like life, a very hard observation to put into words. Even losing a bit of detail I would pick this dac every single time over the more detailed Music Streamer HD. I really wish I could convey more accurately how amazed I am at the multibit experience. Part of the difference in how I feel about this dac can be contributed to the startling clarity. Toslink is HIGHLY recommended over usb. It is in my ears a clearly distinct difference, to the point I won't go back to usb, having run both through this dac. Once the usb haze is lifted you realize what you've been missing. Here's the best part of this mini review : this dac costs less than all the others listed. Go get it. (Now I want a bifrost multibit, damnit).
  
 I wanted to thank Jeremy for the continued service of my Project Polaris, a beautiful little amp that just keeps giving, and makes determining differences between these dacs so easy.
  
 edit: amp to dac in second paragraph.


----------



## k4rstar

jbarrentine said:


> So recently I've been through several dacs in the search for a successor for my hrt music streamer II+. Everything was paired with my Polaris and HD600s.
> 
> The iFi iDac2. Exceptionally digital sounding. Might be good for people who like electronic/techno, etc, but otherwise should be avoided. I have no idea why this is a seemingly popular amp here on headfi. It sounds nothing like real life. It's also a bit shouty. It does make instruments jump out at you from the background in a very in your face kind of way. That might be why people call it "fun".
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm curious as to what source you run toslink from?


----------



## jbarrentine

k4rstar said:


> I'm curious as to what source you run toslink from?


 
  
 My computer with an older gigabyte motherboard, the GA-Z77X-UP4 TH. It's nothing special as far as I know.


----------



## bixby

duplicate question that has been answered, sorry for the post


----------



## Drrizzt

Hey,
  
 I was very curious to know how the Polaris could compete against higher gear because i felt the LCD-2 was not at his best with the Polaris, so i bought the Lake People G109, wich has great reputation and...oh my god, the Polaris get trounced in every possible way. It's less fun sounding okay, less "in your face" but it's more neutral and the same time more natural, better resolution, soundstage is better, better extension in high, better instrument separation...i was regarding the Polaris as an excellent amp and somehow disregarding higher gear thinking the upgrade was not worth it but in my opinion, yes. At least if you have quality headphones.


----------



## rez11

theres always better amps, i think for the price and for a starter like me's first amp with my 400i's was a great deal, its pairing praise is what sold me on it, thats the whole ladder/money sucking part of the hobby i guess always better out there


----------



## iancraig10

Soon to come .....

The Kameleon filter. Basically an eq unit dedicated to your headphone following measurements by Solderdude. He measures headphone response and then makes a circuit that is plug and play to fit into the Kameleon.

I use an hd650 with it. The Kameleon slightly brightens the top end by reducing the mid bass hump and also boosting the really low bass.

The result is pretty amazing.

The Kameleon can be just linked to the Garage amps without power supply, or for other amps, it will need a supply.

I've been using a Kameleon for over a year now and find it difficult to accept headphones with proper sub bass or massive peaks until I re-burn my head in again.


----------



## starence

iancraig10 said:


> Soon to come .....
> 
> The Kameleon filter. Basically an eq unit dedicated to your headphone following measurements by Solderdude. He measures headphone response and then makes a circuit that is plug and play to fit into the Kameleon.
> 
> ...


 
 Is there any evidence that the G1217 version of this is coming out soon? It seems like they've been planning it forever. Also, I'm not really clear on what advantage this has over a software EQ.


----------



## iancraig10

It might see the light of day at the end of October.

It's a fixed type of eq, that has been based on actual measurements of the headphones. No guesswork.

Solderdude has made some quite a while back. He uses one and a few other members of DIY Audio Heaven. I have one as well, except the ones that we have are discrete amps with the circuit inside them. So just one unit.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I bought one of the prototypes that resulted from the design phase. 
  
 My HE400i sound much bette with the filterr: added sub-bass, damped the peak at 8 kHz and slightly corrected the response decay in the treeble. Basically, The FR curve looks much flatter now: http://diyah.boards.net/post/18449/thread
  
 The change is pretty substantial and for good!


----------



## rez11

interested as i have a 400i but newer version without backplate etc, hope they work with this version as well with the Kameleon


----------



## Tunkejazz

It seems that pre-orders can be placed now, and not only for G1217 amps:
 http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_019.htm


----------



## disastermouse

tunkejazz said:


> It seems that pre-orders can be placed now, and not only for G1217 amps:
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_019.htm



So if you have a Garage1217 amp already, what do you need to add Kameleon? Do you need the dock thing or just a module or what?


----------



## Tunkejazz

disastermouse said:


> So if you have a Garage1217 amp already, what do you need to add Kameleon? Do you need the dock thing or just a module or what?


 
 If you have a G1217 amp, you can buy the Kameleon in-line filter without the power supply + the desired filter modules. It will be powered from your G1217 amp's power supply and feed the amp itself though a pass-through cable. In the web it is not clear if one filter module is included with the Kameleon or not, but I am sure Jeremy will answer that question rapidly.


----------



## disastermouse

tunkejazz said:


> If you have a G1217 amp, you can buy the Kameleon in-line filter without the power supply + the desired filter modules. It will be powered from your G1217 amp's power supply and feed the amp itself though a pass-through cable. In the web it is not clear if one filter module is included with the Kameleon or not, but I am sure Jeremy will answer that question rapidly.



I'm almost certain that I'm going to get a Kameleon. I've asked this in a certain forum, but I'm wondering if I can buy a PCU version of Kameleon and still use it passively. Basically, I want them to put out a Phillips X2 module so my girlfriend can use it with her setup too, but she's using a Schiit Magni OG. I also want the PSU so I can take the Kameleon with me if at any point I use a non-G1217 amp. However, while I have a G1217 amp, can I run it in passive 'mode' or is it one or the other?

Thanks to anyone who knows this!


----------



## mowgli-kun

Had the same question for Jeremy.
  
 Apparently you can buy the pass-through version of the Kameleon, and purchase the power supply separately down the road.


----------



## disastermouse

mowgli-kun said:


> Had the same question for Jeremy.
> 
> Apparently you can buy the pass-through version of the Kameleon, and purchase the power supply separately down the road.


 

 I got the answer on...um...Voldemort. But now it seems that because I have focus pads, the filter may not work correctly.


----------



## kehorton

Very interested in what you find out, @DisasterMouse . We have practically the same setup . I have modded vegan pads, replacing my prior focus pads (A).

I'm very close to getting an Ether to see if I can get a bit more richness/warmth in bass and lower miss. But I saw that announcement started considering the Kameleon.


----------



## disastermouse

kehorton said:


> Very interested in what you find out, @DisasterMouse . We have practically the same setup . I have modded vegan pads, replacing my prior focus pads (A).
> 
> I'm very close to getting an Ether to see if I can get a bit more richness/warmth in bass and lower miss. But I saw that announcement started considering the Kameleon.


 

 Here's hoping it's still useful. I don't consider pad changes much as far as modding goes.


----------



## iancraig10

Info on Kameleon is being discussed here ...

http://diyah.boards.net/thread/1396/kameleon-filter-assembly-available-g1217?page=1&scrollTo=22671


----------



## Amish

I'm on the fence with this actually. I have been reading about how well the filters work for sometime now. at least a year or two. Now with the module that makes it plug and play...I just don't know if it is worth the money.


----------



## rez11

tis alot of money for a tuning filter for my Hifimans, i just cant justify it at the time, i want to save for an Ember first


----------



## iancraig10

I agree that it is something that needs to be thought about. I have to say, mine really does get the best from an hd650 though, and I wouldn't be able to find another headphone with the same smoothness in the treble with proper, deep bass.


----------



## HOWIE13

This is all buzzing around in my head at the moment. It seems it's not so easy to tell whether I have the old or new version of HD650.
  
 I thought it was just a matter of looking through the back grill and seeing if I saw black or silver. Mine is silver. However, I've now read it's more to do with how stiff the pads are, so I haven't got a clue which version I've got. You can put a kilogram weight on the pad to test-but I don't have a kilogram weight.
  
 If I do decide to purchase I suppose I could send one of my pads to Jeremy to examine or just purchase a new pair of pads from Sennheiser, then, at least, I would know I had the new version.
  
 Why is life so complicated ?


----------



## iancraig10

You have a newer one if it's silver Howard. Now check for the Sennheiser hologram behind the grill of the right cup which will confirm it.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> You have a newer one if it's silver Howard. Now check for the Sennheiser hologram behind the grill of the right cup which will confirm it.


 
  
 Thanks for helping Ian. There is a silver hologram behind the left grill so I suppose that's okay.
 I'm not sure whether I have the funds for Kameleon. I'm thinking of treating myself to a T1 or HD800S for Christmas- if I'm way off financial target I'll probably buy Kameleon for my HD650 instead-it will probably suit me just as well.


----------



## iancraig10

If you have that hologram, it's a new one, Howard.

A lot of 'sound' differences are to do with the harder pads that the new ones come with. They are firmer.

While the hd650 is really good with a Kameleon, the hd800 is better according to Solderdude. I fancy an hd800s as well.


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> If you have that hologram, it's a new one, Howard.
> 
> A lot of 'sound' differences are to do with the harder pads that the new ones come with. They are firmer.
> 
> While the hd650 is really good with a Kameleon, the hd800 is better according to Solderdude. I fancy an hd800s as well.


 
 I would need to audition an HD800 and 800S as I read some people find the 800 has too much treble. I like lots of treble as long as it's sweet, but not so as to give me a hissing migrane.
  
 This means finding a shop with both models. I'll start my quest in a month or so.


----------



## jellofund

howie13 said:


> I would need to audition an HD800 and 800S as I read some people find the 800 has too much treble. I like lots of treble as long as it's sweet, but not so as to give me a hissing migrane.
> 
> This means finding a shop with both models. I'll start my quest in a month or so.


 
  
 I think you might be further to the west but Hifi Corner (Edinburgh & Falkirk) seem to stock both, so possible they might have both available for audition. Not really any other decent headphone places I can think of through my way though.
  
 http://store.hificorner.co.uk/headphones.html
  
 If you can get your hands on an HD650 module you're more than welcome to have a loan of my Kameleon if you fancy giving one a go? It's a prototype I got in a trade with Frans but aside from the enclosure it's the same as the production unit.


----------



## HOWIE13

jellofund said:


> I think you might be further to the west but Hifi Corner (Edinburgh & Falkirk) seem to stock both, so possible they might have both available for audition. Not really any other decent headphone places I can think of through my way though.
> 
> http://store.hificorner.co.uk/headphones.html
> 
> If you can get your hands on an HD650 module you're more than welcome to have a loan of my Kameleon if you fancy giving one a go? It's a prototype I got in a trade with Frans but aside from the enclosure it's the same as the production unit.


 
  
 That's very kind and helpful of you, Mark.
  
 I'll contact Hifi Corner and see what their situation is. After all, what's an hour's journey when seeking HiFi bliss.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll get back to you about the Kameleon if I decide not to buy the 800/s and thanks again.


----------



## jellofund

howie13 said:


> That's very kind and helpful of you, Mark.
> 
> I'll contact Hifi Corner and see what their situation is. After all, what's an hour's journey when seeking HiFi bliss.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's no bother Howard 
  
 I noticed Hifi Corner are selling an ex-display HD800 which gives me some hope that they will have both available for audition. And an hour's travel isn't too bad really and certainly beats buying blind!!
  
 Just give me a nudge here or on DIYAH if you fancy giving the Kameleon a go at any point (postage won't cost much). The offer's there!


----------



## HOWIE13

jellofund said:


> That's no bother Howard
> 
> I noticed Hifi Corner are selling an ex-display HD800 which gives me some hope that they will have both available for audition. And an hour's travel isn't too bad really and certainly beats buying blind!!
> 
> Just give me a nudge here or on DIYAH if you fancy giving the Kameleon a go at any point (postage won't cost much). The offer's there!


 
 I noticed that ex-display model-very tempting- thanks again Mark.


----------



## iancraig10

Kameleon with HD800 is excellent for an upgrade later ...... :evil:


----------



## HOWIE13

iancraig10 said:


> Kameleon with HD800 is excellent for an upgrade later ......


 
 Future-proof.


----------



## iancraig10

Unless we get a Kameleon S .........

Magic Roundabout isn't it?


----------



## jamor

I still don't really understand what the Kameleon is. In-line filter? So is it just an equalizer that you would hook up to your project polaris?


----------



## iancraig10

An equaliser that you change the chip for, depending on what headphone you are using. The eq is based on real measurements and targets specific frequencies in a much more accurate way than many eq units.

You end up with a much flatter measured response.

Yes, you can use an equaliser, but it won't be as accurate and a good equaliser also costs a bit.

It can be used with any amplifier but will hook up with and power th Garage amps at the same time, so you just need one plug and a patch lead.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Pretty skeptical myself... but I'd be interested to read some impressions, especially if Garage1217 is involved or promoting it.
  
 Seems like tubes for SS amps.


----------



## iancraig10

It's an eq unit but just more accurate than guessing.

The same guy who designed the Garage 1217 amps designed the Kameleon.

It's very effective too. I have had one for some time. Mine are made especially by Solderdude with the amp incorporated into the same box.


----------



## disastermouse

I really want to try this thing. I like my Bifrost MB->Polaris->HE-500, but I also love the idea of more clarity around the treble to compliment that amazing speed.
  
 The HE-500 are the fastest headphones I've ever heart and Bimby really lets that shine. So curious about a custom filter!


----------



## Tunkejazz

notfitforpublic said:


> Pretty skeptical myself... but I'd be interested to read some impressions, especially if Garage1217 is involved or promoting it.
> 
> Seems like tubes for SS amps.


 
  
 Please do not take my comment the wrong way, but to be honest I am not sure what makes you skeptic.
  
 I mean...the head-fi market has been quite saturated with the same kind of products for quite some time. Every company seems to offer the exact same kind of products. Now these guys come with innovative ideas (based on real measurements of the frequency response of headphones) and people become skeptic... The advantage of this approach over modding headphones is that it gives much more control to perform the changes to the sound signature and you don't need to cannibalize your headphones. If you are tired of the filter, just flip the switch and you are back to the stock sound. 
  
 I got one of the prototypes from the designer and it has improved aspects of my phones that were not quite right. The result is that it makes me enjoy both headphones significantly more.
  
 D2000: The change here is subtle but clearly noticeable. The mids have been brought a bit forward and the minor treeble glare that this phones could show has been damped. The changes are great because they make the V-shaped signature of the D2000 a bit flatter, but still keeping the awesome sub-bass this cans are famous for.
  
 HE400i: The changes are much more noticeable: the filter adds sub-bass, flattens a bit the deep in the mids and removes the peak at 10 kHz. The curve has been corrected in such a way that the overall treeble is not as damped as it was before.  People always compare the He400i with the old HE400, and end up complaining about lack of sub-bass and recessed upper treeble. Well here they are back for you, but without all the distortion in the mids that the original HE400 had.
  
 Is it night and day? Not with the D2000. With the HE400i, the added sub-bass, extra clarity in the mids and the removal of the 10 kHz peak makes them much more enjoyable, especially at low volumes. 
  
 By the way...I am not sure whether anyone is doing "tubes for SS", but I have seen the opposite and not precisely from G1217!
 I just wished you could listen to my unit!


----------



## iancraig10

Same for my hd650. Proper sub bass. Lowered mid bass hump. As a result, the treble remains smooth and better defined.

I don't enjoy the hd650 the same way as I used to now since I am way more aware of its deficiencies, particularly with regards to the bass.


----------



## disastermouse

Can anyone tell me what the difference is with the HE-500? It sounds like a small change, but even small changes can be dramatic if they are the correct changes.

I love my HE-500, but I like what the Kameleon page describes on the website, too. I've gotten clarification that the Focus Pads likely won't make much of a difference.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Spoiler: Warning: Long Quote






tunkejazz said:


> Please do not take my comment the wrong way, but to be honest I am not sure what makes you skeptic.
> 
> I mean...the head-fi market has been quite saturated with the same kind of products for quite some time. Every company seems to offer the exact same kind of products. Now these guys come with innovative ideas (based on real measurements of the frequency response of headphones) and people become skeptic... The advantage of this approach over modding headphones is that it gives much more control to perform the changes to the sound signature and you don't need to cannibalize your headphones. If you are tired of the filter, just flip the switch and you are back to the stock sound.
> 
> ...





  


 Because its $250US for something that makes ONE set of headphones "sound better"
 Because thats enough money to add to the original purchase of a headphone to get a better headphone
 Because thats as much as a Polaris alone, and my Polaris makes A BUNCH of my headphones sound good
 Because you better like the adjustments someone else thinks makes a headphone sound better or your schiit out of luck
 Because I don't know if this is going to sound $250 better than a fiddling with an EQ that can programmed for more than just one headphone
 Because there's only graphs showing a few of the modules available and the changes they make. 
 I could go on.
  
 I said I was skeptical. Not that I thought the project was a dumb idea and/or a waste of time and money. 
  
 My reference to "tubes for SS" was made concerning the rolling of tubes in tube amps in order to manipulate the sound more to a users liking. Which is, albeit a very loose and off handed comparison, the same being done here.


----------



## Tunkejazz

It is NOT $250 for one set of headphones, that is like saying that you can only use your amp with ONE set of headphones, which is not true. There is an initial investment and the individual filter modules do not cost 250 bucks.

But hey, clearly you are happy with your headphones and you don't need to tune their sound...I am happy with my investment  

My point is that those 250 bucks will likely influence the sound of your headphones much more than changing your Polaris for an amp that costs twice the price. I am also ver happy with my Polaris. It is just a different type of improvement. I can use my HE400i with any amp, and if the sub-bass is recessed in the headphones, the amp will hardly give you that.


----------



## notfitforpublic

tunkejazz said:


> It is NOT $250 for one set of headphones, that is like saying that you can only use your amp with ONE set of headphones, which is not true. There is an initial investment and the individual filter modules do not cost 250 bucks.
> 
> But hey, clearly you are happy with your headphones and you don't need to tune their sound...I am happy with my investment
> 
> My point is that those 250 bucks will likely influence the sound of your headphones much more than changing your Polaris for an amp that costs twice the price. I am also ver happy with my Polaris. It is just a different type of improvement. I can use my HE400i with any amp, and if the sub-bass is recessed in the headphones, the amp will hardly give you that.


 

 Ugh... ok I get it, you're really pumped about this, so much to the fact that you feel the need to defend it tooth and nail against a comment that was clearly not an insult or slight against the product. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm happy you're happy.


----------



## Tunkejazz

notfitforpublic said:


> Ugh... ok I get it, you're really pumped about this, so much to the fact that you feel the need to defend it tooth and nail against a comment that was clearly not an insult or slight against the product.
> I'm happy you're happy.



Nope. No pump here. You are attacking a product without even knowing what it does. And instead of taking a friendly comment for what it is, you have reacted very agressively twice.

Good luck dude, I am not answering to you any longer.


----------



## i20bot

What, no module for HD700's?  Wonder if the HE400i's will work with the HD700.


----------



## filmgeek47

Forgive me if this has already been answered, but this thread is really long. Can anyone compare either the Polaris or the ember to an amb amp like the M3 of beta 22? Not fully satisfied with the he560s on the M3 and I'm trying to figure out if it's worth trying the Polaris or the ember.


----------



## starence

i20bot said:


> What, no module for HD700's?  Wonder if the HE400i's will work with the HD700.


 
 I kind of doubt the HD 700s will ever have one, since they're not terribly popular headphones. You're probably better off with a software based EQ.


----------



## rez11

How badly am I messing up the sound when I use Low-Bandwidth (with Aggressive model), AND Mid-Resistance WITH-Attenuation? I've noticed some female vocal tracks S's starting to give me fatigue (i believe), after awhile i start to stretch my face and rub eyes. Not sure if im getting fatigue from listening, or it could be ****ty sleep time (insomnia) and eyes messing with me. I wanted to get opinions from any others that are sensitive to Sibilance or fatigue, i dont know if im sensitive to treble/sibilance but i guess i could be.
  
 I'm using a HE-400i and everyone says they dont have sibilance. It could just be my ears, i do have Tinnitus. BUT I do listen at around 10-11' o clock, usually always With-Attenuation module on. That surely cant be loud? Just recently started adding Mid/Low Bandwidth (with Aggressive Polaris) and bumping Resistance up. My ears dont recognize alot of difference in sound equipment but these settings make the strong female S's less irritating and just wanted to get opinions. 
  
 edit: 400i known to have a treble spike right? mabye thats whats bothering me?


----------



## GamerStudent

Trying to get everyone's opinion on these for a pair of HD650s or if there are other amps (around the $450 mark) I should look at as well (Ember II, Schiit jotunheim, bottlehead crack + speed mod (most expensive one))?
  
 I'm interested in this because it's supposed to be a solid state that has a tube like sound, but I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are.
  
 I'm looking for a warmer, but detailed sound. Bright treble and sibliance are not for me at all.


----------



## iamxLn

gamerstudent said:


> Trying to get everyone's opinion on these for a pair of HD650s or if there are other amps (around the $450 mark) I should look at as well (Ember II, Schiit jotunheim, bottlehead crack + speed mod (most expensive one))?
> 
> I'm interested in this because it's supposed to be a solid state that has a tube like sound, but I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are.
> 
> I'm looking for a warmer, but detailed sound. Bright treble and sibliance are not for me at all.


 
 if you want warmer you don't want the jot.


----------



## iancraig10

gamerstudent said:


> Trying to get everyone's opinion on these for a pair of HD650s or if there are other amps (around the $450 mark) I should look at as well (Ember II, Schiit jotunheim, bottlehead crack + speed mod (most expensive one))?
> 
> I'm interested in this because it's supposed to be a solid state that has a tube like sound, but I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are.
> 
> I'm looking for a warmer, but detailed sound. Bright treble and sibliance are not for me at all.




I have both but my own personal preference is for the Polaris. Lower noise floor and just a bit less tubey sounding than the Ember. A little bit more bite to the top end.

Having said that, there are some who prefer the Ember and the tube swapping capabilities. Remember to change the tube though because I know that some go on forever with the same tube........

The Polaris is a really excellent amp IMO.


----------



## Drrizzt

I agree, for the price it's excelent and fun sounding. Comparing with higher pricing Amp tough, it lacks some refinement, articulation is not top notch. I was really surprised when i upgraded to a Lake People G109, the gap was bigger than expected.


----------



## notfitforpublic

gamerstudent said:


> Trying to get everyone's opinion on these for a pair of HD650s or if there are other amps (around the $450 mark) I should look at as well (Ember II, Schiit jotunheim, bottlehead crack + speed mod (most expensive one))?
> 
> I'm interested in this because it's supposed to be a solid state that has a tube like sound, but I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are.
> 
> I'm looking for a warmer, but detailed sound. Bright treble and sibliance are not for me at all.


 

 Things to consider... are you buying an amp for the 650 alone? to build a system around the 650 and other high impedance cans? or are you looking for an amp with more versatility for future cans you may buy?
  
 IF your building a system for the 650, get the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball and call it a day knowing you have that amp thing covered. But, OTL amps like the Crack aren't gonna be the best choice for low impedance/current hungry cans and the like. So your married to high impedance cans more or less.
  
 IF you looking to have a solid amp for almost anything you could buy in the the future, the Ember is the better bet, but your gonna lose just a
 touch of the HD650 magic not going OTL in my opinion.
  
 IF you can't afford the previous options and don't want to save, get a Polaris. Its a great SS amp with enough power for most cans, customizable, and at a great price. My HD600 sounds great out of it, but @Drrizzt is right, you'll be missing some refinements the Polaris can't provide.
  
 Polaris is a great amp, use it all the time when I don't want to wait for tubes to warm up or shorter listening sessions.


----------



## GamerStudent

Thanks for all your replies.  Although I want to buy just for the HD650 alone, I want a more versatile amp, still not 100% sold on tubes yet though.  Any other warm sounding SS amps for around $500 USD that don't have the flaws of the polaris?


----------



## vapman

I can't really think of any flaws of the Polaris except it'll set your expectations for other amps to be really high...


----------



## notfitforpublic

Bought a Garage Polaris for when I didn't want to wait for tube warm up and short sessions. Never tired my T1's with it thinking it just wouldn't do them justice, not compared to my tube amp anyway. Pleasantly surprised to find out how wrong I was. T1's sound pretty stellar from the Polaris, I prefer my tube amp, but the Polaris has proven itself to be a VERY capable amp easily handling everything I've thrown at it except for sensitive IEM's. Attenuation or not, I still get some hiss on Nobles.
  
 Just a stellar amp for the price.


----------



## iancraig10

Jeremy is now offering an attenuator patch lead for iem and low impedance headphones.


----------



## ericr

starence said:


> I kind of doubt the HD 700s will ever have one, since they're not terribly popular headphones. You're probably better off with a software based EQ.




OTOH the HD700 might be an ideal candidate. Some consider them as an HD800 with problems, so if a module could fix the problems the combo could be a great value.


----------



## notfitforpublic

iancraig10 said:


> Jeremy is now offering an attenuator patch lead for iem and low impedance headphones.


 

 yup, saw that and thanks for the heads up. I use IEM's strictly for portable anyways.


----------



## starence

iancraig10 said:


> Jeremy is now offering an attenuator patch lead for iem and low impedance headphones.


 
 There are also more details about this here, and plans if you prefer to make your own instead of buying one.
  
 https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, Jeremy and Solderdude, the designer of the amp are there. I'm admin.


----------



## shamo42

Thanks to the many positive impressions in this thread I ordered the Polaris for my HD600. 
I have one question. Do I need to disconnect the headphones before powering up (or down) the amp to prevent damage or can I just leave them plugged in all the time?


----------



## Tunkejazz

shamo42 said:


> Thanks to the many positive impressions in this thread I ordered the Polaris for my HD600.
> I have one question. Do I need to disconnect the headphones before powering up (or down) the amp to prevent damage or can I just leave them plugged in all the time?




I have never disconnected the headphones (HE400i, HD650) to turn it off. It does not make any strong noise or anything (at least mine doesn't).


----------



## shamo42

tunkejazz said:


> I have never disconnected the headphones (HE400i, HD650) to turn it off. It does not make any strong noise or anything (at least mine doesn't).




Thanks, good to know. I'll post impressions and pics in a couple of weeks.


----------



## snapacap

I bought one of these today for my HD600 & HD700. This is my first upgrade from my original Fiio e10. Can't wait to share impressions!


----------



## Magic77

snapacap said:


> I bought one of these today for my HD600 & HD700. This is my first upgrade from my original Fiio e10. Can't wait to share impressions!



Great amp. I'm using mine right now. I don't think you will be disappointed.


----------



## disastermouse

snapacap said:


> I bought one of these today for my HD600 & HD700. This is my first upgrade from my original Fiio e10. Can't wait to share impressions!


You're in for a treat!


----------



## beyondthepale35

I just murdered my wallet and picked up an Elear that's coming in tomorrow. Anyone have any experience with the Polaris and Elear? Or will I have to try and write down my extremely vague and confused impressions?


----------



## snapacap

*yes.*


----------



## Vu Chau

snapacap said:


> *yes.*


 
  
 Very nice! Initial impressions?
 Supposed to get mine today too (the green one: https://www.facebook.com/garage1217/photos/a.706012359509056.1073741828.700576356719323/1038172976292991/?type=3&theater). At work now so can't check the delivery but I will have some time with it tonight.


----------



## snapacap

vu chau said:


> Very nice! Initial impressions?
> Supposed to get mine today too (the green one: https://www.facebook.com/garage1217/photos/a.706012359509056.1073741828.700576356719323/1038172976292991/?type=3&theater). At work now so can't check the delivery but I will have some time with it tonight.


 
 I did not expect the adjustable settings to make nearly as much of a difference as they do. At first I was like "the extension seems a bit better, some more treble... meh..." Then I decided to play with the tabs a bit. Went from Low G to Mid G, and the difference was far more life all around! I am impressed so far. This is not just another one trick pony!
  
 Also, different headphones respond much differently.


----------



## snapacap

Guys, I think we may be headed for my first ever 5 star review..... and it's not gonna be a pair of headphones......


----------



## notfitforpublic

snapacap said:


> I did not expect the adjustable settings to make nearly as much of a difference as they do. At first I was like "the extension seems a bit better, some more treble... meh..." Then I decided to play with the tabs a bit. Went from Low G to Mid G, and the difference was far more life all around! I am impressed so far. This is not just another one trick pony!
> 
> Also, different headphones respond much differently.


 
  
 Bring your input impedance up a notch with the 600's as well. I find Mid R with Mid G to do the trick.


----------



## Vu Chau

I can say with pleasure that I have never heard such sound before in my life. Such clarity and depth. Using my Beyer DT 990 right now, and the Polaris right away tames the treble very well. Not only that, it extends the bass deep down. Unlike before when I heard only a veiled bass, now the bass is more punchy and clearer. Having the settings at High BW, Mid G, and Mid R.
  
 Looks like many more listening hours await!


----------



## snapacap

Something odd I have noticed in the past few days: My less expensive headphones sound as if they gain more from this amp than more expensive. Ex: HD558 gained a significant amount of clairty, Bass tightened up on the Monoprice 8323, smoothed out the KSC75 a bit, and so on...


----------



## iancraig10

I find similar. In fact, I've been talking about the very same thing on DIYAH. I am wondering whether it's because the Polaris delivers a lot of current when asked.

I've been getting great results with lower impedance headphones like the msr7, which is supposed to be so sensitive that an amp isn't really necessary. However, mine fills out on the Polaris. Just need a bit more attenuation.


----------



## Vu Chau

I seconded what you two said. 
  
 My DT 990 250 Ohm Pro experiences a greater sonic change than my HD 650 does when amp'd with the Polaris. That, however, is a pleasant thing in itself, because the DT 990 is rather screechy, and bright as is well-known. The Polaris artfully tames the can. My impression with this combination has been very positive thus far. The Polaris continues delivering and exceeding expectations. More specifically, I have this sensation that the music becomes more tangible and physical. As opposed to before when sometimes notes simply pass by your ears, with the Polaris the music has some weight to it and becomes tactile. Piano sounds more percussive, and orchestras more vibrant. For the DT 990 I usually have it around mid-high BW, mid Gain, no Attenuation, and low-mid Resistance. I have been trying to play with the output resistance jumpers but couldn't figure out what effect I'm supposed to get, or how it's supposed to work. Anyone cares to educate me on this? [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 For my HD 650 I like that the sound does not get overly warm. I have it at high BW and high Gain to complement the warmth and silky attributes of the Polaris. Huge sonic "upgrade" compared to my O2, which I always used to amp the HD 650, but felt the headroom constrained.
  
 The Polaris definitely rocks the bottom end. Very dynamic and very fast. The tube-like sound definitely gets me every time!


----------



## hulk

for those with the he400i, is your right headphone louder than the left side when connecting to the polaris? i have to plug the right 2.5mm connector into the left headphone to make it sound balance. it doesn't happen when i connect it to the e10, siberia soundcard, phone and mobo. my old he400 and siberia headset works fine on the polaris.


----------



## lyncks

Hey,
  
 anyone here using it with K7xx? good match?
 Got one pair incoming and really want to have a good match with it 
  
 Cheers


----------



## snapacap

lyncks said:


> Hey,
> 
> anyone here using it with K7xx? good match?
> Got one pair incoming and really want to have a good match with it
> ...


 
 I am also curious about that. The Fiio E10 didn't push them nearly hard enough.


----------



## HOWIE13

lyncks said:


> Hey,
> 
> anyone here using it with K7xx? good match?
> Got one pair incoming and really want to have a good match with it
> ...


 
 I don't have K7xx but it's a good match for K612, K701, K702 and K712.
  
 So, unless the K7xx is wildly different from these other AKG's it should be fine.
  
 Anyway, Polaris is so configurable I'd be very surprised if it wasn't suited.


----------



## lyncks

That is if you know how to configure it 
  
 I'm sold pretty much. Where can we get it in Europe?
  
 Cheers


----------



## Tunkejazz

lyncks said:


> That is if you know how to configure it
> 
> I'm sold pretty much. Where can we get it in Europe?
> 
> Cheers


 
 As far as I know you can't get new ones from Europe. You can order from the G1217 site or look for a second hand unit.


----------



## snapacap

tunkejazz said:


> As far as I know you can't get new ones from Europe. You can order from the G1217 site or look for a second hand unit.


 
  


lyncks said:


> That is if you know how to configure it
> 
> I'm sold pretty much. Where can we get it in Europe?
> 
> Cheers


 
 There is also an ebay store, which is slightly more expensive.


----------



## Vu Chau

Has anyone regularly listened to the HD 800 on their Polaris? If so, what is your impression? My current setup is Polaris > E18 as DAC > HD 650, and it is fantastic. I love the HD 800's imaging and effortless transparency at a demo, and want to add it to my setup if it and the Polaris prove to be a great combination. I know tube is the way to go for the HD 800, but still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I listen to classical a lot, and would imagine the HD 800 excels in this regard.


----------



## H2Ologd

My current setup. The Polaris is so versatile. I wonder if I will ever upgrade from it.


----------



## alota

h2ologd said:


> My current setup. The Polaris is so versatile. I wonder if I will ever upgrade from it.


 
 nice setup. which impedance use with oppo? thank you


----------



## H2Ologd

alota said:


> nice setup. which impedance use with oppo? thank you


 
  
 Current setup is Attenuation Module: off.  Bandwidth: medium; Gain: low; Output Resistance: Medium.  I also run the Garage1217 -20db attenuator cable.  With these settings, I can listen comfortably with the volume knob about 11 o'clock. This setting also works with my Noble 3W iem.  Which usually allows me to hear a little background noise through my system.  I do play with the settings quite often and try different positions, this is one of the benefits of the Polaris.


----------



## alota

If i'm right medium resistance is around 35 ohm


----------



## Ulises

So let me share my experience with the beyer T5P first gen 
  
 The sounded overly bright, analytical, shouty with the Magni 2. 
  
 I then got a Project Polaris amp that sounds absolutely wonderful. Larger soundstage, sounds are fuller, much more precise. Sounds to die for. It's definitely a warm amp and can become even warmer with the 54 settings available. The only downside that I found was some noise that I attribute mainly to my noisy USB port in my computer (going to get a Wyrd, see if that solves things). Things improved considerably using a -20dB adapter provided by Jeremy (the seller), who is a great guy and a joy to deal with!
  
 So, basically, The Beyerdynamic T5P first gen makes a great match with the Polaris amp.


----------



## Reiven

Any idea how would Polaris work with MrSpeakers AEON?
 I remember reading posts that Ether and Polaris wouldn't match well and they are from same "house".
 Although AEON is easier to drive (AEON 14ohm 97dB/mW /ETHER C 22ohms 92dB/mW)


----------



## Ulises

The Polaris amp is not the quietest amp out there. You might be able to get it to work using an adapter that Jeremy sells for very efficient/sensitive cans. 
  
 I heard some hissing with my current setup to give you an idea. 
 Ubuntu 14.04/Tidal Hifi/Master > Wyrd > Modi 2 Uber > Project Polaris > beyerdynamic T5P (v1) [I'm using PYST usb cables, which I highly recommend]
  
 The noise is reduced with higher output impedance. With the adapter, the noise drops completely.
  
 P.S.: I realize that I make it sound as if the noise is very loud. It is NOT, it's very faint and you may not be able to hear it. In my setup you need to be actively trying to hear it


----------



## Ulises

I'm finding a very strange thing using my (awesome) Polaris amp. My setup is as follows:
 Ubuntu 14.04/Tidal Hifi/Master > Wyrd > Modi 2 Uber > Project Polaris > Beyerdynamic T5P (v1)
  
  
 Noise: very low without adapter, disappears with adapter.
  
 If instead of streaming from my laptop I connect my Axon 7 or Nexus 9 via OTG cables there is very noticeable hiss (a constant "sh sh sh sh"). Now here's the interesting thing, when I hover my hand over the Polaris  or when I touch it the hissing intensifies. This does not happen when the source is my computer.
  
 I don't think this is interference coming to the amp from the phone/tablet because I can leave my phone right next to the amp and I don't get noise when the source is my computer. Note that I'm using two different OTG cables (USB-C for Axon 7, micro USB for Nexus 9). Furthermore, I didn't get noise when I was using my previous amp, the Modi 2. Interesting, no?
  
 Any ideas what the blip is going on here?


----------



## Cavi

Wanted to chime in and give a shoutout to the Topping D30 DAC as being a good pairing for the Project Polaris. It's very transparent and lets the amp do its job. Very pleased with the pair. And very happy about the convenient footprint to allow for a decent stack on my desk!

Jeremy had sent me a new opamp chip for my motherboard buuuut I snafu'd it. The chip cracked and the resulting damage made my motherboard sound unusable. I decided to try the Topping D30 because I heard it was a good XMOS unit for the money. The Polaris offers so much character and is a wonderful amp - the DAC just lets the amp do its job.


----------



## ilcg1

Just received my Polaris and have two setups now. Will keep only one of them: schiit Modi Multibit/Polaris or Bifrost Multibit/Jotunheim.


----------



## ilcg1




----------



## iamxLn

Talk about the differences you're hearing


----------



## oswalakhil

I've been using the Polaris for a week, and I absolutely love it! I compared it on the HE400I to my O2 and Schiit Vali 1, and it's definitely better than both of them - with much sweeter mids, control over bass, and non-harsh highs, and separation. The differences are relatively small, but I have a feeling that with more demanding headphones the Polaris will shine way more - as they have way more power than I need right now. I can see absolutely nothing wrong with it - and if it matches well with the HD6XX incoming in December, it looks like endgame for me!


----------



## Tunkejazz

The designer of Polaris uses the HD650 regularly, and I can confirm that the combo matches nicely, at least given my taste


----------



## Vu Chau

You're in for a treat. The HD650-Polaris is a great pairing. Very sweet mid and treble, and a very dynamic bass. Plus, you can change the Polaris damping factor to adjust how euphonic you want your headphones to sound. I was using the Polaris to drive my HD650 for a year before upgrading to an Auralic Taurus MKII at 5 times the price for a tiny improvement. Nowadays I'm using the Polaris for my planars.


----------



## oswalakhil

That's great to hear, and I'm really looking forward to it. How do I change the damping factor anyway? Would that require major mods?


----------



## Vu Chau

The settings are on the sides - it's called output impedance. You can set the jumpers at either low, medium, or high.


----------



## mandrake50 (Sep 7, 2017)

Change the output resistors via the jumpers that are provided... No major modifications required.
Damping factor is basically the ratio of the source impedance to the load impedance.


----------



## oswalakhil

I see, thanks! I have been playing with that and settled on Medium for the HE400I, I wasn't aware it was called damping factor. Any hints as to how it affects the "euphonic" nature of the mids?


----------



## mandrake50 (Sep 7, 2017)

It is not called damping factor... it is the output impedance that you are changing. But that changes the ratio,  which IS the damping factor.
In theory it should not change too much with a Planar headphone other than the output level.
 The technicalities:
http://eaw.com/amplifier-damping-factor-more-is-better-or-is-it/


----------



## Vu Chau

I have it set as low for HD 650. Everything (but especially the bass) becomes less tight, and the mid is just rounder. Bass becomes tighter and punchier with the high setting. Not sure of the technical explanation behind that.

It works like water pressure, I guess. High pressure, stronger water current, and vice versa.


----------



## mandrake50

At the low setting the damping factor is greater. It means that the amp controls the driver better. On high the damping factor is lower... meaning, especially at the resonant frequency of the driver, the control is quite low. Meaning the driver probably overshoots more. This can give louder bass (usually the resonant frequency is somewhere around 50 to 70 HZ in an open back headphone). But that bass will not be as tight and controlled (in theory). Tighter probably not, but punchy, if you like mid bass (and that is "punchy to you), likely.

It is just the opposite of what you said though. The amp will put out more power into the low setting than the high setting.

Electically, the best situation is low. The amp puts out more power and has better control of the driver. Sonically, that is up to the listener... that is why the setting is there.


----------



## Tunkejazz (Sep 8, 2017)

Here you have the effect of 0.1 ohm (green) and 120 ohm (purple) with HD650, measured by the designer of Polaris. This effect of course depends on the impedance of the headphones. The HE400i react differently. I normally have my HD650 in the mid-setting, but I also use a Chameleon filter, which makes this curve a lot flatter in the bass/subbass region.






(source: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd650/ )


----------



## mandrake50

Interesting. But this is just frequency response. At that the difference is probably just noticeable. Often side to side measured differences are greater. But, it is better to look at distortion levels, especially when looking at the effects of damping factors.
Yes the interaction of the amplifier with a dynamic driver is quite different than with a planar. The impedance of a dynamic can be all over the place, but especially it will change in a huge manner at the resonant frequency of the driver.
A planar does not show that variation. For all intents and purposes it is a flat line. Because of this, the change in FR is almost certainly less pronounced.
The effects of damping factor are more noticeable at low frequencies because of the large excursion required to produce them. But the distortion caused by less amplifier control over the driver can be seen over the entire range.


----------



## Renato Fury

What are they and what do they serve the bandwidth ?


----------



## mandrake50

If this is a question for me, I don't understand it.


----------



## Renato Fury

mandrake50 said:


> If this is a question for me, I don't understand it.


This question is for anyone who knows, answer me, if you know... Great, Bandwidth are those options where you have those jumpers on the left and right side of the LED light, what's the use ?


----------



## mandrake50

There was some discussion about the reasons for this setting earlier in this thread. It is a high frequency cut filter. I have always run it on high. Which basically means no filtering or reduction of bandwidth.
IIRC the rationale was that some headphones/IEM can benefit from this. Again, I run it set to "high" and don't worry about it from there.
This is one of those great things about the Polaris. It allows one to adjust it in many ways to make it sound good for you, to personalize the sound.
Play with it. Nothing that you can change cannot be put back to where they were. You may find something that you like.


----------



## Renato Fury

Do you think Project Polaris is better with the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650 ?


----------



## jamor (Nov 14, 2017)

Just received my HD 650 today.   A little confused trying to determine what is the proper  Resistance/Gain combination for this headphone when looking through the posts.  Is it mostly personal preference?

I will start on High-R/High-G since I heard these are hard to drive and it appears from the chart that there will be more Bass.  I already have a TH-X00 so I don't need a bass cannon but I do like some bass.  Ultimately just want as-intended though shy away from brightness. I keep BW on Low.


----------



## Renato Fury

jamor said:


> Just received my HD 650 today.   A little confused trying to determine what is the proper  Resistance/Gain combination for this headphone when looking through the posts.  Is it mostly personal preference?
> 
> I will start on High-R/High-G since I heard these are hard to drive and it appears from the chart that there will be more Bass.  I already have a TH-X00 so I don't need a bass cannon but I do like some bass.  Ultimately just want as-intended though shy away from brightness. I keep BW on Low.


But then, was it worth the purchase ?


----------



## jamor (Nov 15, 2017)

Renato Fury said:


> But then, was it worth the purchase ?



Yes they sound amazing. Rock/Live music is very intimate, warm, and smooth. Detailed, staged, layered.  pretty impressive.  Of course it's attached to a Modi 2 Multibit.


----------



## Renato Fury

jamor said:


> Yes they sound amazing. Rock/Live music is very intimate, warm, and smooth. Detailed, staged, layered.  pretty impressive.  Of course it's attached to a Modi 2 Multibit.


What do you mean when you use words like intimate and staged ?


----------



## jamor (Nov 15, 2017)

Renato Fury said:


> What do you mean when you use words like intimate and staged ?



I don't have a musical background so I just use words that come to mind when listening.  Intimate like you're in a small venue with the band and you're really close.. Opposite of veiled I guess?  Staged like I can pick out the location of each instrument/voice , left front, left back, middle, right back, right front.


----------



## kauljp

notfitforpublic said:


> Things to consider... are you buying an amp for the 650 alone? to build a system around the 650 and other high impedance cans? or are you looking for an amp with more versatility for future cans you may buy?
> 
> IF your building a system for the 650, get the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball and call it a day knowing you have that amp thing covered. But, OTL amps like the Crack aren't gonna be the best choice for low impedance/current hungry cans and the like. So your married to high impedance cans more or less.
> 
> ...



I have the hd 650 and the he 560 and I am using the polaris with mojo as a dac. What amp should I get to future proof myself and get the best outta the headphones I currently got. 
As far as upgrades are concerned, I think I will be upgrading to planars like the lcd later on.
Thanks


----------



## Amish (Nov 21, 2017)

if LCD then the Polaris or Ember will treat you well with its 2+ watts.


----------



## joasjoas

Can it work well with about DT 990 600 ohm?  I'm between this or Magni 3


----------



## Audio Addict

joasjoas said:


> Can it work well with about DT 990 600 ohm?  I'm between this or Magni 3



I have the 600 ohm T1 and it works well with them.


----------



## Renato Fury

How does Polaris compare to Magni 3 ?


----------



## joasjoas

Does anyone use with the 600ohm dt990 or similar? I'm a rookie and I do not know how to correctly position the jumpers, or what position is recommended.


----------



## Vu Chau

joasjoas said:


> Does anyone use with the 600ohm dt990 or similar? I'm a rookie and I do not know how to correctly position the jumpers, or what position is recommended.



I paired the 250-ohm version of the DT990 with the Polaris. Overall the sound was nice but it was a bit too sterile/cold (the Polaris did help a bit by adding a little warmth). There's no correct way for positioning the jumpers, you do it the way your ears like it. My configuration was: low bandwidth (to reduce that treble peak), mid gain, and high impedance (typically so for dynamic drivers).


----------



## joasjoas

Hi, I have it connected to the pc in a dgx, I'm with a dt990 600ohm, but I have to put it to the maximum volume, to enjoy the sound but I need more sound, I do not know what I'll be doing wrong, if someone can help me, the configuration.
I have the amp to the maximum and the windows equal to the maximum


----------



## Audio Addict

joasjoas said:


> Hi, I have it connected to the pc in a dgx, I'm with a dt990 600ohm, but I have to put it to the maximum volume, to enjoy the sound but I need more sound, I do not know what I'll be doing wrong, if someone can help me, the configuration.
> I have the amp to the maximum and the windows equal to the maximum



I run the 600 ohm T1 G1 with the Polaris being fed from an Exogal Comet Plus which is fed by Roon from my media PC.  I have no issues with volume and usually listen in the 10:30 range with both the Gain at High and the Output Resistance at High.  I have found the critical is the output source and I have my Comet set at 96 for its digital volume level.


----------



## bequietjk (Jan 24, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> How does Polaris compare to Magni 3 ?



Finally found the reply link, hah!  (just created a head-fi acc not 5 minutes ago)

The Magni 3 was the first amp I had ever purchased, about 4 months ago.  Not long after it came out.

I wasn't too thrilled on the sound when I tossed my sr80e on it.  On low gain I noticed the sound was fairly clear and the power was there, but it just didn't give me that kind of satisfaction I was looking for.  On high gain it just seemed to rip my ears apart haha.  I think with the sr80e being bright for starters and the Magni 3 just, well, being the Magni 3.  It didn't seem like a good match.  I looked elsewhere and came across the Polaris, and after forum scavenging and Ian's youtube uploads describing it I was sold.  I had to return the Magni and get the Polaris.

I would say in terms of power for my sr80e, it pretty much tripled in power and doubled in clarity, and there is definitely a certain warmth to it creating less fatigue (for me at least).  For my SRH840 as of right now I'm going...

Win7USB2.0 > Behringer UMC404HD > (XLR main outputs to RCA) > Project Polaris

It sounds so good right now!  It took me a bit to mess with the jumpers but finally for these shure cans, my choice setting is Low output resistance, Low gain, High bandwidth and no attenuation module (NoA jumper).  I can't imagine what other headphones sound like.  Right now I'm looking into the T50RP MK3's.  Imo, these SRH840 are great but they are closed back and it definitely sounds like it haha.  Hope this answers any concerns you have.

On a side note, has anyone had any trouble pushing their T50RP's?  What do you have the jumpers set to?  If everything is good to go, then I'll also be good to go on selling my shure's .


----------



## bequietjk

Just got my t50rpmk3 in today and got 30 minutes listening time.

They're pretty power hungry.  My listening volume is at low resistance, mid gain at 2 o clock.  They sound great, though.


----------



## irishsammy

Just got a Polaris used.  Putting it through its paces with 600ohm DT880's, HD600's, and Alpha Dogs.  

Sounds fantastic with 2 out of the 3.  Very powerful and...uh...selectively neutral.  Still listening to figure out the secret to the third set of cans...


----------



## erein1982

irishsammy said:


> Just got a Polaris used.  Putting it through its paces with 600ohm DT880's, HD600's, and Alpha Dogs.
> 
> Sounds fantastic with 2 out of the 3.  Very powerful and...uh...selectively neutral.  Still listening to figure out the secret to the third set of cans...


Very interested in a Polaris.  How are you finding it now?


----------



## ZenErik

Will have one of these today along with a Horizon III. I plan on trying both and more than likely returning one. Will be used with the RME ADI-2 DAC and Auteur, HD650, and ADX5000. Pretty excited to try things out!


----------



## bequietjk

I'm going to be selling mine if anyone is interested.  It's been great to me but I'd prefer something with speaker outs like the bas x.  I cannot use the Trade forums so if anyone is interested I may be putting it on ebay.  
6 months use.
Aggressive tuning.
Aluminum and plastic plates.


----------



## Tuneslover

I have owned the Project Ember for about a year now and absolutely love it with Mimby in my bedside system.  I have Bimby/Jotunheim in another setup and I just can't into that system.  The Jot is a tad too bright for my liking and of course there's not much I can do about it.  I have been debating about selling it and replacing it with a Project Polaris because from what I've read it has similar traits to the Ember and of course is just as flexible and configurable.  As for the sound of the Polaris, is it "identical" to the Ember or is there a distinct difference in the sound?


----------



## bequietjk (Jul 3, 2018)

I haven't had experience with the Ember.  My opinion on the Polaris is that it has a kind brightness and warmth to it.  Perhaps someone can chime in who has used both the Ember and Polaris?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

its not identical to the ember but it is a warmer sounding solid state.


----------



## Tuneslover

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> its not identical to the ember but it is a warmer sounding solid state.



Perfect!  That's what I would like, not identical but slightly different from the Ember.  Yeah I'm getting tired of the bright Jot, I think I'll have to consider the Polaris.  Thanks.


----------



## Tunkejazz

I have both, one at home one at work. The sound signature overall is rather similar, but there are subtle differences. Both are excellent all-rounders.
In my opinion, the Polaris has a better defined bass. Not necessarily thinner nor fatter, just more articulate, you hear it slightly more defined in the deepest tunes. 
With the Ember, once again in my opinion, the sounds is perceived with more depth, and the upper mids a bit more polished, but in both cases we are talking about subtle effects.

You can tune the Polaris a bit more and it certainly has a pitch dark background compared to the Ember with certain tubes. None of the two are bright or dull. The right amount.
If you want to hear the Ember at its best, I would recommend a good 6SN7 (+Jeremy's adapter) and be done with it.

I have a bit of a weakness for tubes and I listen to a lot of acoustic, blues and rock. I find the Ember a bit more enjoyable with those types of music. 
With electronic and heavy metal I would pick the Polaris. With Polaris you also can forget about the great can of worms that tubes bring on the table...

I use both with HD650,HD800 and HE400i and I had absolutely no problem to drive them to ear melting/ground shaking levels if that is a concern to you.
I don't think I can discern with my ears a lot more than what I wrote here, even if I would like to start describing something that reads more like wine tasting 

Good luck!


----------



## hallflourish

Does anyone experience hiss on the Project Polaris? I tried using my Dunu-1000 (Impedance: 10Ω | Sens: 98 dB) with it and I hear a high frequency hiss or noise. I'm not sure whether it comes from the power supply, but changing wall outlets does not help. Has anyone had luck with eliminating this noise by using a better power supply?

Settings: High BW, Impedance: 0.1Ω, Attenuation: Yes, Gain: Low. When I switch to the medium impedance setting (32Ω), the hiss disappears.


----------



## dakanao

Can you connect the Polaris/Ember/Sunrise etc. to the laptop? If so, how?


----------



## OldDude04

dakanao said:


> Can you connect the Polaris/Ember/Sunrise etc. to the laptop? If so, how?



You can use on of THESE.


----------



## dakanao

OldDude04 said:


> You can use on of THESE.


Is there not a quality loss this way?


----------



## OldDude04

dakanao said:


> Is there not a quality loss this way?



The cable simply takes the signal your laptop's DAC is sending out through it's headphone jack and converts it to RCA to plug into your amp. The quality of the sound will depend upon your laptop. The Amp won't improve that sound, only make it louder.


----------



## dakanao

OldDude04 said:


> The cable simply takes the signal your laptop's DAC is sending out through it's headphone jack and converts it to RCA to plug into your amp. The quality of the sound will depend upon your laptop. The Amp won't improve that sound, only make it louder.


I see, so there's no point in getting the Polaris, if I'm going to plug it in the headphone's jack to drive the HD650? Because right now I have a Chord Mojo, but it's been recommend to me that the Polaris would be a better match for the HD 650, but if the Polaris connected to the laptop is only going to make the sound louder (which isn't necessary, because my laptops headphone out is loud enough) than it wouldn't be worth it to sell the Mojo, and get the Polaris instead (I can only have 1 device)


----------



## OldDude04 (Aug 17, 2018)

dakanao said:


> I see, so there's no point in getting the Polaris, if I'm going to plug it in the headphone's jack to drive the HD650? Because right now I have a Chord Mojo, but it's been recommend to me that the Polaris would be a better match for the HD 650, but if the Polaris connected to the laptop is only going to make the sound louder (which isn't necessary, because my laptops headphone out is loud enough) than it wouldn't be worth it to sell the Mojo, and get the Polaris instead (I can only have 1 device)



If you're getting loud enough sound and you like what you're hearing, then I wouldn't buy the Polaris. The Polaris would color your sound a little, as it is a slightly warmer sound than the Mojo, but you could get the same result by EQ'ing with your current set up.

*Edit* Also, if you're currently using the DAC of the Mojo, then going to the DAC in your laptop and getting a Polaris might be a dip in the quality of your sound.


----------



## AnotherN00b

Howdy Pardners! I have a Polaris on its way as a birthday present which will replace my Magni 2 Uber (will be replacing the Modi 2 with a Topping D50 next but that's beside the point). I'm primarily upgrading to the Polaris because I recently picked up a HE-560 and wasn't happy with how bright and thin it sounded from the Schiit stack. I'm posting to see if I can get jumper recommendations from any of you who have paired the Polaris with the phones below [I realize an amp isn't going to magically change all my headphones signatures and capabilities but I made some notes on what aspects I would ideally like to improve if possible but really mostly looking for what has worked for y'all]:

HE-560 (would like to improve the bass/mid-bass impact, give the mids more body/presence, and tame the highs a bit)
M1060  (pretty happy with the balance but would like to improve overall clarity and tame the 5k harshness on some recordings)
TH-X00 (would like to reduce the bass muddiness, bring mids more forward, improve linearity and clarity)
HE-400i (seem darker, less clear and open than the M1060 and HE-560 so more detail and openness would be welcome along with more bass impact perhaps) 
T50RP mkII (modded) (probably looling for the same enhancements as the 400i more or less) 

Thanks in advance for sharing any settings that have worked well for you!


----------



## Tunkejazz

AnotherN00b said:


> Howdy Pardners! I have a Polaris on its way as a birthday present which will replace my Magni 2 Uber (will be replacing the Modi 2 with a Topping D50 next but that's beside the point). I'm primarily upgrading to the Polaris because I recently picked up a HE-560 and wasn't happy with how bright and thin it sounded from the Schiit stack. I'm posting to see if I can get jumper recommendations from any of you who have paired the Polaris with the phones below [I realize an amp isn't going to magically change all my headphones signatures and capabilities but I made some notes on what aspects I would ideally like to improve if possible but really mostly looking for what has worked for y'all]:
> 
> HE-560 (would like to improve the bass/mid-bass impact, give the mids more body/presence, and tame the highs a bit)
> M1060  (pretty happy with the balance but would like to improve overall clarity and tame the 5k harshness on some recordings)
> ...



I have a Polaris and the He400i. The latter are not very different in bass character compared to the 560s to my understanding. I use Polaris with the lowest output resistance and full-bandwidth. That way the bass hits a beet deeper in my opinion. The problem of the He400i is that they have a peak around ~9 kHz and you cannot do much about it with the bandwidth settings as it is not hight enough in frequency. So if there are instruments with a lot of presence around that frequency, you will feel the peak a lot, even if the headphones keep the rest of the treeble under control. I guess the 560 are better in this respect looking at the comparison plot between the frequency response of the two: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/he-560/ (see second plot of the measurements, where the 560 does not have the peak).

Perhaps not what you are looking for, but as a complement to my Ember/Polaris I bought a Kameleon inline filter some time ago and the effect was much larger than changing jumpers around because it addresses the issues of each particular headphone from measurements. The designed of the Polaris used my pair to perform his measurements (mine is the older version SMC connectors, described in the second half):
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/he400i/

You can also see the effect of the filter in the frequency response filter: more quantity of deep-bass, it balances a bit the hole in the mids and tames the peak in the upper mids.
The problem is that the price of the kameleon is (sadly) not low.


----------



## AnotherN00b

Thanks for the input -- much appreciated!


----------



## cinisi (Feb 10, 2019)

Hi guys!

Question. I received a 2nd hand Polaris from a fellow head-fi'er. It works great but the volume knob isn't straight. See picture. Is this something I can easily fix by redoing the soldering on this knob? Anyone have experience with that?

Thanks!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

some pics without the top on would help. so we can see the actual pot.


----------



## cinisi

Ah sure!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

the pot is def crooked. it might be the legs are bent / twisted a bit you could try gently bending it back over to other way a bit but be very gentle. the correct way would be to de solder it and fix it imo


----------



## cinisi

Yea I think I will redo some soldering. Not a big porblem tbh because it functions, but I'm a bit anal when it comes to these things haha


----------



## cinisi

A colleague solders PCB's in his spare time and helped me out with this issue this morning.
Just heating some of the soldering gave enough room for wiggling, and it's now straight 
Apparently there's some room for wiggling, probably the holes are larger than the pins.


----------



## trellus

That’s great news, @cinisi ... glad to hear you got it straightened out.


----------



## cinisi

trellus said:


> That’s great news, @cinisi ... glad to hear you got it straightened out.


Thanks @trellus !
I'm really happy with the Polaris so far. Only had it on default settings (haven't tried tweaking yet) with my LCD2CB's and 99 classics.
Will be doing some tweaking in the upcoming weeks to find out what the switches can do for my sound


----------



## M-83

Hey Everyone,

Can anyone advise on a suitable UK plug/PSU for the Project Polaris?

Thanks


----------



## bequietjk

Options will be limited since the Polaris requires 48VDC.


----------



## M-83

bequietjk said:


> Options will be limited since the Polaris requires 48VDC.


I reached out to Jeremy at G1217.  He replied swiftly (as always) and confirmed that I will only need a suitable IEC320 power cable for the UK market.  I can source off Amazon.


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> I reached out to Jeremy at G1217.  He replied swiftly (as always) and confirmed that I will only need a suitable IEC320 power cable for the UK market.  I can source off Amazon.


I'm going to buy this one -  StarTech.com 3m UK Computer Power Cord - 3 Pin Mains: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


----------



## M-83

Does anyone have experience with optimising Polaris settings for Denon D2000 HPs?  Would be grateful if you could share details.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Does anyone have experience with optimising Polaris settings for Denon D2000 HPs?  Would be grateful if you could share details.


I'm currently running my Denon AH-D2000 off Dragonfly Red, once you get your Project Polaris and if you could share some sound impressions that would be much appreciated!

Thanks!


----------



## M-83 (Jan 7, 2021)

I have received my Project Polaris and have had 3-4 hours of listening time. I'm very impressed. It's fun, musical, and get's my feet tapping and head bopping (almost without me realising lol). There is plenty of low end presence, lovely mids, and the highs are not too overbearing.  Suits my Denon AH-D2000 very well indeed.

These are my go-to test tracks:

https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...01GM41ZJC&ref=dm_sh_9942-fceb-5ca3-a176-c0726

https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...0165GKESK&ref=dm_sh_9e58-4712-e6ee-82b5-c5360

However, just before I was to use it for the first time, my ifi Zen Dac died on me (coincidental and awful timing) which leaves me without a Dac and just using Line out from my PC. There is a *tiny* bit of noise from the LO, but I only hear when the vol pot is at 9 o'clock or higher and the music is paused.  It is not audible to me when listening to music.

I have impedance set to low, gain medium, bandwidth high, and attenuation on.  I can't listen above 9 or 10 o'clock due to high volume.  I will try low gain tomorrow.

I am still undecided on a dac (considering Topping DX3 Pro) but I can say that even without a dac, I'm very pleased. 

G1217 have done a stellar job with this amp. I highly recommend it.


----------



## Hyde00

I placed my order, I'll find out soon haha.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 9, 2021)

Hyde00 said:


> I placed my order, I'll find out soon haha.


Awesome let us know what you think.

I am really impressed with mine.  Only setting change I've made is to revert back to low gain.

Edit:   I'm interested to know which setting you apply.


----------



## Hyde00

Man I only placed order mid day yesterday and today I got tracking number.

To my understanding is that they build it upon order. I'm super impressed at their fast response to email also fast turn around time.

Looking forward to see it soon!


----------



## bequietjk

Ive had nothing bit good experience with the G1217 crew.

I emailed them about any future plans and what is next for G1217.  Jeremy said there may be something in the works this year but no details as to what it could be.

Anything that comes from there is amazing!


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> I'm currently running my Denon AH-D2000 off Dragonfly Red, once you get your Project Polaris and if you could share some sound impressions that would be much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks!


How do you find the D2000 & Dragonfly Red?


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Man I only placed order mid day yesterday and today I got tracking number.
> 
> To my understanding is that they build it upon order. I'm super impressed at their fast response to email also fast turn around time.
> 
> Looking forward to see it soon!


They were rapid shipping mine too.  Impressive turnaround time!  I ordered 22nd December, and it arrived in my hands here in the UK on 7th January.  I think that's a great lead time especially considering Xmas & Covid disruption.


----------



## M-83

bequietjk said:


> Ive had nothing bit good experience with the G1217 crew.
> 
> I emailed them about any future plans and what is next for G1217.  Jeremy said there may be something in the works this year but no details as to what it could be.
> 
> Anything that comes from there is amazing!


Same.  I bought Project Ember a few yrs ago and the experience was great back then too.

Interested about Jeremy's comment saying something is in the works...


----------



## M-83

I ordered a Schiit Modi 3 today from Schiit UK.  Hopefully Mark turns the order around quickly so I can get using it with the Polaris asap


----------



## Hyde00 (Jan 9, 2021)

M-83 said:


> How do you find the D2000 & Dragonfly Red?


lol funny you ask because I saw Dragonfly Red in your "previous kit:" section that's why I brought it up, figure it's a good reference point haha.  Oh I also see you had Project Ember and Fidelio X3, how did you like it compare to D2000 and Project Polaris?

*Short Answer:*
To be honest I really enjoyed the Dragonfly Red, it emphasize female vocal / string instruments which I listen to a lot while giving a small bump to mid bass to give it the extra warmth D2000 needs (otherwise typically sounds too metallic/cold).  I really like the timbre / tonal balance of the overall presentation of Dragonfly Red, only complaint is that it sounds a bit 2D / flat.  After some research it sounds like people are saying it's due to the weak amp section (I guess it can't be helped, it's super efficient and low power) of Dragonfly Red so hopefully Project Polaris can preserve the same sound signature but give it better separation / depth / layering.

*Long Answer:*
LOL I guess even my short answer was kind of long, my bad.  But before I go on I must get this out of the way.  Personally I like colored sound, I actually find neutrality / linear doesn't sound that nice to me (didn't enjoy my SDAC/O2).  Which explains why I like Dragonfly Red despite it not having the best measurement + colored sound.  Though I'm gonna assume since we're at the Project Polaris thread so I'm hoping most here are onboard with this idea (slightly colored sound).

As I mentioned at the top I actually really enjoyed the Dragonfly Red sound despite so much hate from a lot of people towards AudioQuest as a company lol.  I mean, that could be another huge topic but for now let's just say I enjoy the warmth that Dragonfly Red brought.  I even sampled the Dragonfly Cobalt out of curiosity but for my preference I like the Dragonfly Red sound signature better so I've since returned the Dragonfly Cobalt.

This next part might get me in trouble but I find a lot of people these days only look at measurements and doesn't care about how it actually sound which puzzles me.  I was previously debating to try Topping L30 because it's at a good price also measures well, so I went on YouTube to ask someone how their L30 pair with Denon D5200.  The answer I got is that he cannot answer my question with his "subjective" impression, that I'm better off to read the review on ASR and read the measurements.  I was thinking man is this what the audiophile world has come to, people only read measurements and doesn't care about how the headphone actually sounds anymore.

In any case I apologize that I'm a bit side tracked, so when I was researching I came across a few posts by VRacer-111 (otherwise known as vincentcarguy on other forums) regarding his modded TH-X00 Purpleheart (not the same but otherwise share a lot of similarity) so I asked him for advice on amping.  He really enjoyed his Purpleheart with Project Ember and with his new D5200 he enjoyed it with Project Polaris.  He let me tried his Project Ember (super super super huge thanks) while I do like the sound and tube made everything super 3D / layered but I find I didn't enjoy the background noise / interference / scratchy volume pot that came with the tube (CV4024), also the tube changes the tonal balance a little bit (which I actually enjoyed before).  Also I have to admit I'm a bit too lazy too deal with the maintenance work that come with tube amps (warm up time, tube aging.....etc).  That's when he point me to Project Polaris and this is where I'm at.  According to him it should preserve the same sound but just make everything better.  My amp got shipped today so hopefully I'll find out soon haha.  Worst case scenario I can always pick up a different dac later but I want to try this first and see how it goes.

Sorry for the rant and hopefully my answer is not too long LOL.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 9, 2021)

Hyde00 said:


> lol funny you ask because I saw Dragonfly Red in your "previous kit:" section that's why I brought it up, figure it's a good reference point haha.  Oh I also see you had Project Ember and Fidelio X3, how did you like it compare to D2000 and Project Polaris?
> 
> *Short Answer:*
> To be honest I really enjoyed the Dragonfly Red, it emphasize female vocal / string instruments which I listen to a lot while giving a small bump to mid bass to give it the extra warmth D2000 needs (otherwise typically sounds too metallic/cold).  I really like the timbre / tonal balance of the overall presentation of Dragonfly Red, only complaint is that it sounds a bit 2D / flat.  After some research it sounds like people are saying it's due to the weak amp section (I guess it can't be helped, it's super efficient and low power) of Dragonfly Red so hopefully Project Polaris can preserve the same sound signature but give it better separation / depth / layering.
> ...


Haha okay cool.  To be honest, my "previous kit" section is more about me keeping a tab of what I have had in the past than anything else.  It's certainly not intended as a form of bragging so hopefully it doesn't come across that way 

Yes I had a Dragon Fly Red - I used it with a laptop when I was away with work.  I used it With Mrspeakers Alpha Prime and enjoyed the synergy between them.  Like you, ultimately I thought is didn't have the guts to properly drive my headphones at the time (Primes are Planar and love to eat up power).  But for a portable and short term solution it worked very well.

Project Ember was one of the earlier amplifiers I had, and if my memory serves correctly, I think I used a Fiio E17k with it.  I loved the Ember - I wish I kept it.  Fun, musical, powerful, warm. I didn't tube roll... I was using it with Alpha Primes. But, at the time I lusted for more. So I moved to Bifrost & Lyr 2...then Gungnir & Mjolnir 2 with Amperex Bugle Boy 1960's tubes (still have them in my lounge display cabinet lol). I spent a fortune chasing diminishing returns and then work circumstances changed and I sold the lot.  I'm now on a new head-fi journey again but will keep it much more sensible.

I did have Philips Fidelio X3 for a short while, but I returned them first and foremost because of QC issues - the headband leather started peeling from the central seam. The other reason was the (to me) dry / thin / analytical sound that contrasted heavily with my X2HR.  I was really disappointed in the X3.

D2000 is much more my style.  Warmer, lovely lower frequencies, decent soundstage, and a hell of a lot of fun.  The Project Polaris pisses all over the Fiio K5 Pro and the Zen Dac that I recently had.  It's clearly better.  It really opens up the D2000 with plenty of power and crucially there is a ton of headroom which helps the headphone perform.

Personally, I prefer the Polaris just with line out from my pc (without a dac) than most of the other dac/amp combinations I've had.  The fun is infectious. The bass is gorgeous, there is a lovely warmth to the sound the Polaris provides. There is plenty of detail but it's not analytical and overbearing.  I've not had issues with highs causing discomfort.

Sound stage is wide - embarrassingly, it's honestly made me jump a few times with instruments perceived to be so wide that I thought it was a noise out in the rest of the house and I turn to look out of my home office instantly to see nothing is there haha.

There is a tiny bit of noise when no music playing, but bear in mind I'm pulling from a Pc lineout directly into the Polaris.  I think the noise will be from my PC internals.  It's not a problem and I cannot hear it at all when music is playing even at low volume.  When I get a dac this should resolve.

I am looking forward to getting the Schiit Modi 3.  I spoke with Frans (Solderdude) and he said that Modi 3, Topping E30, and a Khardas Tone Board, will all sound similar so I should just go for the one with the aesthetics and features/functionality I prefer.   So, I decided on the Schiit Modi 3.  Frans said it's a good dac so I'm sure it will be fine.

Give this a go when you get your Polaris - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...07FFBSBZF&ref=dm_sh_cc78-8fff-e624-be5d-d6547


----------



## Hyde00 (Jan 9, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Haha okay cool.  To be honest, my "previous kit" section is more about me keeping a tab of what I have had in the past than anything else.  It's certainly not intended as a form of bragging so hopefully it doesn't come across that way


LOL no no no don't worry I didn't read it that way.  I mentioned "reference point" as in since you've heard Dragonfly Red before and I've heard Dragonfly Red before so it's easier to use it as a baseline for comparison.  Though I guess you don't have it anymore so it's probably not apples to apples LOL.


M-83 said:


> Yes I had a Dragon Fly Red - I used it with a laptop when I was away with work.  I used it With Mrspeakers Alpha Prime and enjoyed the synergy between them.  Like you, ultimately I thought is didn't have the guts to properly drive my headphones at the time (Primes are Planar and love to eat up power).  But for a portable and short term solution it worked very well.
> 
> Project Ember was one of the earlier amplifiers I had, and if my memory serves correctly, I think I used a Fiio E17k with it.  I loved the Ember - I wish I kept it.  Fun, musical, powerful, warm. I didn't tube roll... I was using it with Alpha Primes. But, at the time I lusted for more. So I moved to Bifrost & Lyr 2...then Gungnir & Mjolnir 2 with Amperex Bugle Boy 1960's tubes (still have them in my lounge display cabinet lol). I spent a fortune chasing diminishing returns and then work circumstances changed and I sold the lot.  I'm now on a new head-fi journey again but will keep it much more sensible.
> 
> ...


LOL I guess you could always buy Project Ember again, from what VRacer-111 said (he has both) that Project Ember is still better for that "3D tube sound" where as Polaris is not as layered but a little bit linear (relative to Ember) in sound and also has what he describe as bass that hits like freight train.  So it's probably still different enough to warrant having both?

Oh I asked about X3 because it was recommended to me but based on what you said maybe I'll keep using the D2000.  *By the way if you don't mind may I ask which ear pad you're using?  I'm still using my super worn down stock ear pad.  I've been looking for replacement without success (tried like 7-8 pads by now).*  Though aside from the aesthetics issues it still sound really good.  I just get black flakes on my ear each time I use it LOL.

But yeah I'll definitely give line out from PC a try when I get it just to see what it sounds like hahah.  I'll do a comparison to my Dragonfly Red as source.

As for dac since you already ordered Modi 3 which should be fine, I was gonna say Modi 3 and Topping E30 are probably closer to each other since both uses AKM chips, but if you want to go the ESS Sabre route then Topping D10S is another alternative to Khadas Tone Board.  But then there's also a chance that they all sound the same LOL.

Otherwise I'll give that song a listen when I get the amp, thanks!!!


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> LOL no no no don't worry I didn't read it that way.  I mentioned "reference point" as in since you've heard Dragonfly Red before and I've heard Dragonfly Red before so it's easier to use it as a baseline for comparison.  Though I guess you don't have it anymore so it's probably not apples to apples LOL.
> 
> LOL I guess you could always buy Project Ember again, from what VRacer-111 said (he has both) that Project Ember is still better for that "3D tube sound" where as Polaris is not as layered but a little bit linear (relative to Ember) in sound and also has what he describe as bass that hits like freight train.  So it's probably still different enough to warrant having both?
> 
> ...


That's good lol phew.

Yes the dragonfly red was sold a couple of years ago now. I do remember being really impressed with it and I enjoyed using it. For its size and convenience it does a great job.

I will probably get another tube amp at some point. Would be cool to have Polaris and Ember II side by side. I loved the airiness and lushness of the bugle boy tubes I ran in the schiit kit.

I may end up with a Lyr 3 multibit further down the road... I won't stretch to anything more than that price wise. 

I won't go with any more ESS Sabre dacs. Totally not my thing. I started off with that and I quickly learned that I'll steer clear lol.


----------



## M-83

Is it possible to change the Polaris "jumper" settings (1) whilst the amp is on, and (2) with music playing?

I have been switching it off before making changes just in case


----------



## M-83 (Jan 10, 2021)

Tech advice needed please folks!

I just adjusted the resistance setting on the amp to medium, and the headphone left channel was much quieter, then on high setting, no sound at all on left headphone cup.

On the low resistance setting, the channel balance is okay.

What does the above tell me from a technical POV?

Edit: slight re-wording to better explain my query.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Tech advice needed please folks!
> 
> I just adjusted the resistance setting on the amp to medium, and the headphone left channel was much quieter, then on high setting, no sound at all on left headphone cup.
> 
> ...


The only thing I can think of is that typically it's common to have channel imbalance at low volume level if your pot is under 9:00 position. Try lower windows volume to 50% and crank up the pot to see if it still happens.

Otherwise it might be hardware issue...???? 😱 (Hopefully not)


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> The only thing I can think of is that typically it's common to have channel imbalance at low volume level if your pot is under 9:00 position. Try lower windows volume to 50% and crank up the pot to see if it still happens.
> 
> Otherwise it might be hardware issue...???? 😱 (Hopefully not)


Yeah I had thought the same.

It's not to do with the Polaris being at fault as is experienced this with d2000 with previous amp bit of course with by have the ability to adjust resistance myself. Lowest resistance is fine.


----------



## M-83

Interestingly, I've changed from aftermarket pads (likely Geeria) to like-new stock pads and sound has improved as has the seal around my ear.

I wear glasses so I hope the pads wont misshape the pad. 

I'm assuming stock pads are very hard to come by.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Interestingly, I've changed from aftermarket pads (likely Geeria) to like-new stock pads and sound has improved as has the seal around my ear.
> 
> I wear glasses so I hope the pads wont misshape the pad.
> 
> I'm assuming stock pads are very hard to come by.


From what I read is that D2000/D5000 (not sure about D7000) uses carbon foam (softer, more airy) as oppose to most modern earpads uses memory foam which changes the sound (in this case, for the worse).

And it's been extremely hard finding an earpad that sound exactly the same (despite looking identical physically).

I wear glasses too and haven't had a problem so far.

So hold on to the stock pad with your dear life lol. 😆


----------



## M-83 (Jan 10, 2021)

Hyde00 said:


> From what I read is that D2000/D5000 (not sure about D7000) uses carbon foam (softer, more airy) as oppose to most modern earpads uses memory foam which changes the sound (in this case, for the worse).
> 
> And it's been extremely hard finding an earpad that sound exactly the same (despite looking identical physically).
> 
> ...


Okay that's interesting.  Didn't know carbon foam is a thing!  Makes sense about memory foam as the Geekria ones I took off today have indentations from repeated use with glasses from the previous owner.

That's good to hear hope they last a long time.

Haha I will do definitely!

In my experience, by far the most comfortable pads I've used were the lambskin pads on my (now sold) Alpha Primes.  They were sumptuous, and had loads of space in them. I could wear them for hours and hours and I'd barely know they were there.


----------



## M-83

@Hyde00 Give this a listen when your Polaris arrives - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...00H25SNA0&ref=dm_sh_ef65-1415-0278-51c6-2e005

It's a cracking track by an awesome artist.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> @Hyde00 Give this a listen when your Polaris arrives - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...00H25SNA0&ref=dm_sh_ef65-1415-0278-51c6-2e005
> 
> It's a cracking track by an awesome artist.


Lol awesome I'll keep this in mind when my amp arrives.


----------



## M-83

My Schiit Modi 3 arrived late afternoon, and I've had a full evening with it (well 4 hours).  I'm impressed. It pairs with Project Polaris & Denon D2000 beautifully. Huge difference compared to just using the Polaris with PC Line out!

I'm getting a lovely sound - very musical/fun.  I was unsure if the Modi would be too hard edged but it's not harsh at all.  There is plenty of detail, wide soundstage, shed loads of bass (sublime) but not muddy or overbearing, and mids are just right for me.

I think the Modi 3 & Project Polaris are complimentary. I was unsure if the Modi 3's AKM dac chip would be too dry (like how I found the Fiio K5 Pro) for me, but I think it retains timbre in instruments etc in way that the Fiio never did.  

The Polaris adds the flavour to the sound from the Modi 3.

This is a great value setup, sounds brilliant, is compact, and looks cool too. I will not bother upgrading from this point for my home office.


----------



## Hyde00

That's good to hear though, like you said in the past I always find AKM dac sounded a bit dry so I tend to stick with ESS DACs. But good to know it's a good pairing here. 👍


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> That's good to hear though, like you said in the past I always find AKM dac sounded a bit dry so I tend to stick with ESS DACs. But good to know it's a good pairing here. 👍


Well for me, ESS (Sabre) are too sparkly and bright for my ears. 

Overall my favourite Dac was the Gungnir Multibit, closely followed by Bifrost Multibit.

May head down that road again (budget and wife allowing) in future for listening in the lounge. 

Possibly Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2 is a stretch to far these days now we focus on our daughter lol.  Might push it to a Lyr 3 multibit perhaps... One day.


----------



## Hyde00 (Jan 16, 2021)

I got the amp!  And finally have time to listen to it but the results is......... confusing....... do these amps need burn in?

Currently running PC 100% Volume -> Dragonfly Red -> Project Polaris.

And first impression is that it sounds........... flat........?????  Also seperation is not good either, am I doing something wrong?

I've tested using PC line out instead and it's a bit better but it just sounds cold/metallic which is not what I expect from the reputation.

Previously I've tried Dragonfly Red -> Project Ember and Dragonfly Red -> Liquid Spark and both of of those were fine.  Could I have a faulty unit or is that just how it is?????

Super confused now lol.

*EDIT:*  It physically look super amazing though.


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> I got the amp!  And finally have time to listen to it but the results is......... confusing....... do these amps need burn in?
> 
> Currently running PC 100% Volume -> Dragonfly Red -> Project Polaris.
> 
> ...


Hmm interesting. Personally I haven't heard what I think is a cold/analytical sound.

There are a number of settings on the amp that can change the sound... Maybe have a play?

The only setting I've changed is the impedance to low (jumper switch near headphone jack). I think it makes a noticeable difference. Give it a go.


----------



## bequietjk

@Hyde00 What headphones are you using?


----------



## M-83

bequietjk said:


> @Hyde00 What headphones are you using?


Denon D2000


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Hmm interesting. Personally I haven't heard what I think is a cold/analytical sound.
> 
> There are a number of settings on the amp that can change the sound... Maybe have a play?
> 
> The only setting I've changed is the impedance to low (jumper switch near headphone jack). I think it makes a noticeable difference. Give it a go.


It's the first thing I change before I even listen to it lol. And the only setting I changed.

So right now it's with attenuation module, low gain, and low resistance.

That's why I'm so confused.



bequietjk said:


> @Hyde00 What headphones are you using?



Lol yeah as M-83 said it's Denon AH-D2000 (25 Ohm).


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> It's the first thing I change before I even listen to it lol. And the only setting I changed.
> 
> So right now it's with attenuation module, low gain, and low resistance.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest.

Give it a bit of time to see if it warms and opens up with use.

I have been pleased with mine even on line out and very impressed with Schiit Modi 3.

Apologies for answering the question that was directed to you... I'm using my small smartphone screen at the moment and thought you were asking me which model headphone I'm using!


----------



## bequietjk

Also on the back right jumpers, switch to w/o attenuation module and see how that plays out.  Also, Jeremy is always respondent through emails so reach out to him if you need to!


----------



## bequietjk

But mos definitely give it a bit of time to burn in.


----------



## M-83

bequietjk said:


> Also on the back right jumpers, switch to w/o attenuation module and see how that plays out.  Also, Jeremy is always respondent through emails so reach out to him if you need to!


Sorry to jump in... What effect should that have?


----------



## bequietjk

@M-83 Hey what's up

As far as I know it can reduce the decibals but technically Im not sure how it does it.  When I had my G1217 amps I always found myself messing with the jumpers to really hone in on the sound I wanted.  But I was using 150 ohm and 300 ohm headphones, so that makes a difference of course.

On a side note, I do think these amps benefit after being on for about an hour.  Just my own speculation


----------



## M-83 (Jan 16, 2021)

bequietjk said:


> @M-83 Hey what's up
> 
> As far as I know it can reduce the decibals but technically Im not sure how it does it.  When I had my G1217 amps I always found myself messing with the jumpers to really hone in on the sound I wanted.  But I was using 150 ohm and 300 ohm headphones, so that makes a difference of course.
> 
> On a side note, I do think these amps benefit after being on for about an hour.  Just my own speculation


Hey.

Ok interesting thanks.

Now you mention it - I think you are right about benefitting from being on for a while.

The only small bugbear I have with the Polaris is that the resistance jumper near the headphone jack does not fit snugly on the pins.  There is a small amount of play in it... I would prefer physically sliding switches rather than the jumpers.

At some point I may grab an Ember II to compare directly with the Polaris.  I had an Ember years ago and still have Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 Tubes from when I had a Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 a few years back.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest.
> 
> Give it a bit of time to see if it warms and opens up with use.
> 
> ...


It's ok we use the same headphone anyway so the answer is the same anyway LOLLL.


bequietjk said:


> Also on the back right jumpers, switch to w/o attenuation module and see how that plays out.  Also, Jeremy is always respondent through emails so reach out to him if you need to!


Yeah I'll give it one more day, if it doesn't improve I'll shoot him a message, thanks for the help guys!


----------



## Hyde00

bequietjk said:


> Also on the back right jumpers, switch to w/o attenuation module and see how that plays out.  Also, Jeremy is always respondent through emails so reach out to him if you need to!


*HOLYCRAP this does it!!!*

I switch to *without* the module, now everything is back full force.  Though according to manual with low gain now I'm changing it from 2.2x to 4.5x, though in practice it's not that much louder.  But I do have to use volume slightly below 9:00, like now I have to use like 8:30 or something.

I should still message Jeremy though, why does *with* the module it just sounded so bad.  Like I swear running straight off Dragonfly Red sounds better than running through Dragonfly Red + Project Polaris.  And I started to wonder wonder why does everyone rave this amp so much when it sounded terrible LOL.

But yeah definitely gonna shoot Jeremy a message to see if this is normal.

Thanks again for helping me out!!!


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> *HOLYCRAP this does it!!!*
> 
> I switch to *without* the module, now everything is back full force.  Though according to manual with low gain now I'm changing it from 2.2x to 4.5x, though in practice it's not that much louder.  But I do have to use volume slightly below 9:00, like now I have to use like 8:30 or something.
> 
> ...


I may be wrong but I think it's to do with the signal strength coming into "line in", and by changing the setting you have removed a limit on this.

My guess is that your PC line out and dragonfly red are not optimal in this capability thus removing the limit opens it up.

Check with Jeremy though he's a great guy, very helpful and attentive.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> I may be wrong but I think it's to do with the signal strength coming into "line in", and by changing the setting you have removed a limit on this.
> 
> My guess is that your PC line out and dragonfly red are not optimal in this capability thus removing the limit opens it up.
> 
> Check with Jeremy though he's a great guy, very helpful and attentive.


Yeah now that looking back, I think typically line out has different impedance rating as oppose to headphone out (Dragonfly Red), not sure if that messes with anything. My electrical knowledge is quite crap so I don't know much regarding this.

I've sent Jeremy a message so I'll see what he says. But I almost suspect I might need a dedicated dac with line out to work with the attenuation module properly maybe.

In the mean time I'll use without the module lol.


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Yeah now that looking back, I think typically line out has different impedance rating as oppose to headphone out (Dragonfly Red), not sure if that messes with anything. My electrical knowledge is quite crap so I don't know much regarding this.
> 
> I've sent Jeremy a message so I'll see what he says. But I almost suspect I might need a dedicated dac with line out to work with the attenuation module properly maybe.
> 
> In the mean time I'll use without the module lol.


My Modi 3 has a line out impedance of 75ohms. I could tell immediately that using a Dac was far better than line out from the PC. If using Windows 10, there is no need for drivers- you connect usb and off you go.

Decent DAC options that are sensibly priced are Schiit Modi 3 (and Modi 3+), Topping E30, Khardas Tone board, and ifi Zen Dac.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 17, 2021)

Hyde00 said:


> *HOLYCRAP this does it!!!*
> 
> I switch to *without* the module, now everything is back full force.  Though according to manual with low gain now I'm changing it from 2.2x to 4.5x, though in practice it's not that much louder.  But I do have to use volume slightly below 9:00, like now I have to use like 8:30 or something.
> 
> ...


I've just tried this and yes it increases the gain.  It's quite a jump.  I reverted back to using the module after a quick A/B, then tried it again and I prefer without the module like you do.

I have read that ideally the vol pot wants to be at 9 o'clock or above.  I generally can't listen above 10 o'clock on low gain with my D2000 as it's too loud.

Also, may make a difference for you to use "exclusive mode" on streaming app services so windows does not interfere (see attached pic of how this looks in Amazon Music).


----------



## bequietjk (Jan 17, 2021)

Gosh you guys make me want to pick up a new Polaris hahaha

The first time I had a Polaris I was using a measly Fiio D3 for a dac and wasn't getting the true potential.  That was a few years back and I can't imagine how it would sound now with my Motu M2.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 17, 2021)

bequietjk said:


> Gosh you guys make me want to pick up a new Polaris hahaha


You should....

I'm very impressed with it.  Very clever engineering.  It's a beast and the best I've had for EDM/dance music paired with my Denon D2000.  Highly addictive.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> My Modi 3 has a line out impedance of 75ohms. I could tell immediately that using a Dac was far better than line out from the PC. If using Windows 10, there is no need for drivers- you connect usb and off you go.
> 
> Decent DAC options that are sensibly priced are Schiit Modi 3 (and Modi 3+), Topping E30, Khardas Tone board, and ifi Zen Dac.


lol yeah I'm literally just waiting till Monday so I can get a reply back from Jeremy then see where to go from there.  But I'm like 90% convinced I'll need a dac anyway but I want to hear from him first.  

Also Canada sucks for dac options, things like Schiit and Khadas Tone Board are basically imports (expensive) so I might have to resort to Amazon choices.  Currently looking at SMSL Sanskrit 10th MKII or SMSL M100 MKII (I know I pick unpopular dac choices LOLLL).

Though now that I turned off the attenuation module it sounds great even with Dragonfly Red.  I could survive with this for 1 more day lol.


M-83 said:


> I've just tried this and yes it increases the gain.  It's quite a jump.  I reverted back to using the module after a quick A/B, then tried it again and I prefer without the module like you do.
> 
> I have read that ideally the vol pot wants to be at 9 o'clock or above.  I generally can't listen above 10 o'clock on low gain with my D2000 as it's too loud.
> 
> Also, may make a difference for you to use "exclusive mode" on streaming app services so windows does not interfere (see attached pic of how this looks in Amazon Music).


I use Spotify and can't find exclusive mode, but I did turn off all the normalization options so hopefully that helps lol.


bequietjk said:


> Gosh you guys make me want to pick up a new Polaris hahaha
> 
> The first time I had a Polaris I was using a measly Fiio D3 for a dac and wasn't getting the true potential.  That was a few years back and I can't imagine how it would sound now with my Motu M2.


I do have FiiO D3K so I could re-imagine your life for you if you want LOL.


----------



## Hyde00

Here's some update, my new dac came in and it totally fixed the issue with the attenuation module.  Now I can use it with no problem and it sounds great too!

Moral of the story, Dragonfly Red is not proper substitution for a dac.  I guess headphone out vs line out is indeed different.

This might be the stupidest thing but I'm super impressed at how small the dac is LOLLLL.  Also granted I haven't heard any other standalone dac yet so I don't know how it compares but so far it sounds really nice.

I did find though sound signature wise, Dragonfly Red is warmer and more lush than SMSL M100 MKII + Project Polaris which is more precise and better sense of 3D space.

Signature wise I still like Dragonfly Red (on D2000, pretty sure it's different on other headphone) but technicality wise SMSL M100 MKII + Project Polaris is much cleaner / precise.


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Here's some update, my new dac came in and it totally fixed the issue with the attenuation module.  Now I can use it with no problem and it sounds great too!
> 
> Moral of the story, Dragonfly Red is not proper substitution for a dac.  I guess headphone out vs line out is indeed different.
> 
> ...


Glad you have the issue sorted and you are happy with SQ.

Yeah Dragonfly Red is warm.  I feel similar in comparing ifi Zen dac lush warm with Modi 3 more precise.

I still aim to one day be upgrading to Schiit Lyr 3 with multibit dac.  Should get back some nice warm tube lushness.  That's a way off though!


----------



## Hyde00 (Jan 20, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Glad you have the issue sorted and you are happy with SQ.
> 
> Yeah Dragonfly Red is warm.  I feel similar in comparing ifi Zen dac lush warm with Modi 3 more precise.
> 
> I still aim to one day be upgrading to Schiit Lyr 3 with multibit dac.  Should get back some nice warm tube lushness.  That's a way off though!


Oh yeah?  Zen DAC is more lush and warm?  Damn it I wonder if I should've went with Zen DAC instead LOL FAIL.  Ok maybe down the road I'll try again.

*EDIT:*  It's ok you can slowly work your way back to Schiit Lyr 3 with Multibit DAC.  It's the journey that's the fun part haha.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 20, 2021)

Hyde00 said:


> Oh yeah?  Zen DAC is more lush and warm?  Damn it I wonder if I should've went with Zen DAC instead LOL FAIL.  Ok maybe down the road I'll try again.
> 
> *EDIT:*  It's ok you can slowly work your way back to Schiit Lyr 3 with Multibit DAC.  It's the journey that's the fun part haha.



Zen Dac sounded really nice, but mine failed when 2 weeks old.  Left a bit of a negative impression.  

Yeah I will crawl towards it lol. £800 ish I think.  Gotta keep my eyes open for a few used deals over next few years.


----------



## Hyde00

Were you able to get the Zen Dac replaced? (warranty / refund ....etc?)

Or did you buy it used?


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Were you able to get the Zen Dac replaced? (warranty / refund ....etc?)
> 
> Or did you buy it used?


I bought it new from Amazon UK. I returned it and got a refund.


----------



## iFi audio

Hyde00 said:


> Zen DAC is more lush and warm?



A touch of warmth and richness is our house sound. These features we emphasize more than precision.


----------



## M-83

iFi audio said:


> A touch of warmth and richness is our house sound. These features we emphasize more than precision.


I agree.  Although mine died two weeks after I received it sadly.


----------



## iFi audio

M-83 said:


> I agree. Although mine died two weeks after I received it sadly.



I'm sorry to hear that. I trust that it's covered by warranty and you'll get it working again quickly  ?


----------



## M-83

iFi audio said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I trust that it's covered by warranty and you'll get it working again quickly  ?


I returned it to Amazon for a full refund and bought a Schiit Modi 3 instead.  I wanted to avoid any further headaches to be honest.


----------



## iFi audio

M-83 said:


> I returned it to Amazon for a full refund and bought a Schiit Modi 3 instead. I wanted to avoid any further headaches to be honest.



Understood, it's all good


----------



## Hyde00

iFi audio said:


> A touch of warmth and richness is our house sound. These features we emphasize more than precision.


I appreciate that.

I mean I get numbers are important but I find these days people are obsessed over number and don't even listen to the device itself.  I once asked a person for sound impressions on a headphone.  He told me to read the measurements and ASR review and he refuse to tell me anything regarding how it actually sound because "everyone's ears are different".

Slowly it's becoming more like a "read the Nürburgring track time when shopping for a car" as oppose to "test drive when shopping for a car".

Lol sorry feel like to rant a bit....


----------



## Hyde00

On a different note, anyone know if Project Polaris is ok to be left on all day?

I work at home now and I just leave my computer on all day and only turn off at night when I go to sleep.  If I remember correctly from the Garage1217 page it says Project Polaris is suppose to be very efficient and runs cool right?


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> On a different note, anyone know if Project Polaris is ok to be left on all day?
> 
> I work at home now and I just leave my computer on all day and only turn off at night when I go to sleep.  If I remember correctly from the Garage1217 page it says Project Polaris is suppose to be very efficient and runs cool right?


I asked Jeremy this very question only the other day.

He said it won't cause damage but it isn't advised to leave electronics such as amplifiers idling.


----------



## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> I asked Jeremy this very question only the other day.
> 
> He said it won't cause damage but it isn't advised to leave electronics such as amplifiers idling.


Ahhhh that's a bit.......  inconvenient..........  I guess ideally it's best to only use it for listening session eh?

HHHMMMMMM.......


----------



## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Ahhhh that's a bit.......  inconvenient..........  I guess ideally it's best to only use it for listening session eh?
> 
> HHHMMMMMM.......


Yeah I guess. Not too fussed though.


----------



## M-83 (Jan 24, 2021)

Just having a first proper listen to music with my Philips Fidelio X2HR/00 & Polaris and Modi. They sound great. Whilst they are open backed, they have great bass. They are nothing like other open backed headphones such as Sennheiser HD650 (which I found too thin and lacking in bass).

The X2HR is fun, warm, huge soundstage. It is just such a bargain. I was considering selling them but decided not to.

My Denon D2000 have more attack and more bass than the X2HR/00, and overall I prefer the D2000.  But the X2HR/00 are just such an easy relaxed listen.


----------



## iFi audio

Hyde00 said:


> I mean I get numbers are important but I find these days people are obsessed over number and don't even listen to the device itself



Although I understand how many folks look at measurements and we take them very seriously, I can easily agree with what you wrote. 



Hyde00 said:


> "everyone's ears are different".



...and yet we somehow communicate, understand each other perfectly and often agree how music and various audio products sound like


----------



## Hyde00

I don't know how many people still follows this thread but....... I finally got my Modi Multibit and Asgard 3 (impulse buy) recently so now I can finally do a proper Asgard 3 vs Project Polaris comparison since I'm unable to find any info online.

I'll listen to both amps this week (both source from Modi Multibit) and update you guys as it goes.

But off the bat *PLEASE DO NOT USE ATTENUATION MODULE* (top right corner of Polaris).  I'm using Denon AH-D2000 so the natural thing to do it's like "hey it's 25 Ohm I don't need that much power so let's run it with the attenuation module so it doesn't blow up my ears".

Then for the next few days (after I got Modi Multibit) I've been scratching my head like....... is it the Modi Multibit that doesn't sound good?  The Polaris that doesn't sound good?  Do I need more burn in time?  Or am I just simply crazy?  Some thing just doesn't sound right to me and I was like this close from selling the amp (I even took some pretty pictures so it sells better LOL).  Then I remember Asgard 3 sounds better in high gain (all Schiit amps do), then I was like why don't I try taking off the attenuation module and see what happens.  Yupe magic happened.  It went from "I'll probably sell it" to "as it stands I like Polaris a bit better than Asgard 3".

Again I'll update progress throughout the week but any of you using attenuation module please bypass it.  Though again I'm using Denon AH-D2000 (25 Ohm) so if you're using say like HD650 (300 Ohm) your results might vary.


----------



## bequietjk

When it comes to HDXX I found the HD58X and HD600 to sound the best on Garage1217 amps.  I don't know what it is but they really seemed to have nailed it for the Senns.


----------



## joasjoas

a question perhaps somewhat silly, can the RCA output be connected to a sound bar for example? or can it be dangerous for the soundbar?


----------



## M-83

joasjoas said:


> a question perhaps somewhat silly, can the RCA output be connected to a sound bar for example? or can it be dangerous for the soundbar?


Out of interest, what's the reason behind the connection to a soundbar? 

In answer to your question, I would guess you can connect the RCA line out to a line in in the sound bar, though I'm not sure about possible damage.


----------



## joasjoas

because I use the pc with the headphones and I have the bqrra connected to the pc not to the amplifier.


----------



## Hyde00

According to the spec listed on this page:  http://garage1217.com/new_website_013.htm

It says RCA Output Maximum Voltage: 2.9V.

Typically dac output at 2V but in some cases 3V, so that's pretty standard so I'd imagine it shouldn't do any damage to your soundbar.  I'd say you're safe.


----------



## Hyde00 (Mar 11, 2021)

Okay so here's some update regarding Asgard 3 vs Project Polaris if anyone's interested.

I couldn't find any info while I was buying this so I thought would be helpful for the future generations if anyone's in the market for solid state amp in this price range.  I'll include Dragonfly Red in the mix since that's what I'm upgrading from.  Also dac used (except Dragonfly Red which has dac built in) is *Modi Multibit*.  Headphone used is *Denon AH-D2000* (so the same can be applied to TH610/TH900/TH-X00/E-Mu Teak...etc).  Sorry I don't have any other headphones at the moment to test.  Here it goes.....

*Asgard 3*
- $200 (no module)
- Biggest physical size, heavy too.  Feels like having a phonebook / encyclopedia on my desk.  Reason being power supply is inside the unit.  Actually much prefer the foot print of other 2.
- Heavy volume knob, I'd say depending on preference some might find it too heavy.
- Gets pretty warm, not enough to be hot but definitely feel like a heat pack or something.  More or less on par with Modi Multibit.
- High gain sounds better than low gain, low gain sounds vocal/treble recessed and less clarity.  Also not as loud as I anticipated, low gain I can use 12 o'lock while high gain is about 9 o'clock.  In comparison to Polaris at the lowest low gain I use about 9 o'clock too.  Even though on paper Asgard 3 is more powerful, which I find weird.
- Soundstage isn't as wide as I thought it would be.  I keep reading it has wide soundstage but it seems pretty average.  Though I also suspect Modi Multibit doesn't have super wide stage either so it could be that.
- Imaging is precise, I'd say a little bit better than Polaris.
- Sound profile I'm a bit surprised, it's actually more relax sounding than Polaris.  It has less treble and less bass and surprisingly forward vocal.
- I enjoy this for rock a bit more.
- However overall it has less texture than Polaris in all frequencies, has more of a clean and precise sound.  Trade off is feels like there's less minor nuances.
- Feels fast.
- Overall not bad and as I mentioned more relaxed listen but less details.

*Project Polaris*
- $250 (prebuilt, acrylic top)
- About same size as Modi Multibit and pretty light too, power bar is on the cord so it reduce physical size on main unit.
- Smooth volume knob and weight is about just right.
- Stay cool even after listening for many hours.
- It comes with "attenuation module" with 3 gain settings (low, medium, high), attenuation module sort of works like a base gain then it multiplies the gain setting after (low, medium, high).  Similar to Asgard 3, don't use attenuation module is reduced treble clarity and vocal clarity and in general just make things sound muffled.
- Soundstage is wider than Asgard 3, and because there's more treble on this unit so you can hear the room echo a bit better.  Though still isn't as wide as I thought it would be, could be the headphone or could be the dac, not too sure.
- Imagine isn't as precise as Asgard 3 but still not bad.
- Sound profile..... surprisingly kind of more of everything compare to Asgard 3.  More treble detail, more bass slam, slightly less vocal presence but more detailed vocal.  Warmer mids.
- I enjoy this for acoustic songs a bit more.
- Because it has a lot of small details so relative to Asgard this feels a little bit more tiring to listen to, where it's like giving you all the information.  On Asgard everything's a bit more dialed back and more relaxed.
- Feels slow somehow, maybe longer decay?
- I end up keeping this one since I like the smaller foot print better also this feels a bit more "special" as it does have a bit more of everything.

*Dragonfly Red*
- $200 (dac included, so effectively less than half price of other 2 options)
- Tiny, it's like usb stick.
- No volume knob, you have to adjust through PC volume.  I use AutoHotKey to map volume shortcut from keyboard.
- Pretty much cold all the time.
- No gain setting, just volume from PC.  Though still enough to drive most things out there, just probably can't drive 300 Ohm headphones well (I say probably since I don't have 300 Ohm headphones to test).
- Soundstage surprisingly not bad for such a small unit, not as wide as others but not too far behind.
- I will say imaging is probably Dragonfly Red's shortcoming, it's just okay but nothing that stands out.
- Sound profile....... very warm and rich and bassy.  Has the most bass and deepest bass out of the 3 (surprisingly).  Treble is exciting yet smooth.  Just overall less clean and precise as the other 2 which make sense considering the size and price.
- I'd say most things sounds pretty good with this.
- Detail is surprisingly good I would say it's 90% there for half the price.  Honest for most people I would say this is enough.
- Speed feels about right in the middle.
- Overall to be honest I think this is pretty good considering the size and price.  If you don't have any demanding headphone this would probably be enough.  I think we're just picky in this hobby so we'll chase for the final 5-10%.

*Conclusion*
As I mentioned I end up keeping Polaris because it sounds more rich and more detailed.  Where as Asgard is more a very clean and precise type of sound, though a bit more relaxing (or boring, depends on how you take it) for longer listen.  And as I mentioned Dragonfly Red is less than half price and gets 90% of the job done if your headphone isn't too demanding.  But otherwise Polaris do have better....... everything over Dragonfly Red (except bass quantity, Dragonfly Red has more bass).

If I were to nitpick is that I'm not that big of a fan of the open pcb look.  I know they offer aluminum top option too but it's not the same as having a fully enclosed unit like Asgard 3 (also looks good too).  So if in the future they can offer a full metal enclosure that would be neat (yes I understand that adds cost, I guess we can't have it all).

All in all Polaris is a great unit (if you don't use attenuation module), oh though unfortunately solid state will never get that holographic imaging / soundstage vs a tube amp.  So I'm gonna try a tube amp next and see where it goes, for now I'm keeping the Polaris lol (Asgard is going back, using 15 day return policy).


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## RedJohn456

Finally found a garage 1217 thread, looking to try out some of their offerings but most reviews tend to be quite old. Is the project ember amp still competitive in 2021? I was looking for a pair of amps to complement my HD6XX and settled on Bottlehead crack and maybe Ember 2.1. I will probably adding the Neumann HDH20 to the daily use stable and they will be used with the aforementioned amps as well.

I will be feeding the amps via line out from my Aune S6 pro, iDSD Micro and Fiio E17k (surprisingly still one of the most neutral/flat dacs at this price point).


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## M-83

RedJohn456 said:


> Finally found a garage 1217 thread, looking to try out some of their offerings but most reviews tend to be quite old. Is the project ember amp still competitive in 2021? I was looking for a pair of amps to complement my HD6XX and settled on Bottlehead crack and maybe Ember 2.1. I will probably adding the Neumann HDH20 to the daily use stable and they will be used with the aforementioned amps as well.
> 
> I will be feeding the amps via line out from my Aune S6 pro, iDSD Micro and Fiio E17k (surprisingly still one of the most neutral/flat dacs at this price point).


I can happily confirm that Ember 2.1 is competitive still. It's a stellar amp.

I use mine with the Modi Multibit DAC and Modhouse Argon MK2 T50RP headphone.

I think Ember could easily be endgame.


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## RedJohn456

M-83 said:


> I can happily confirm that Ember 2.1 is competitive still. It's a stellar amp.
> 
> I use mine with the Modi Multibit DAC and Modhouse Argon MK2 T50RP headphone.
> 
> I think Ember could easily be endgame.



Thanks for the reply, that is very reassuring to hear. Aside from the ember, which I am already smitten with, what are their other standout amps? Polaris is their top all solid state amp right?


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## M-83

RedJohn456 said:


> Thanks for the reply, that is very reassuring to hear. Aside from the ember, which I am already smitten with, what are their other standout amps? Polaris is their top all solid state amp right?


No worries.

Polaris is their totl solid state amp yes. It's very good, but my view is that Ember is head and shoulders above it.

What you could do, is try and find a used Ember on head-fi. I got a great deal on mine when I bought used.


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## RedJohn456

M-83 said:


> No worries.
> 
> Polaris is their totl solid state amp yes. It's very good, but my view is that Ember is head and shoulders above it.
> 
> What you could do, is try and find a used Ember on head-fi. I got a great deal on mine when I bought used.



That's a pretty good idea actually, 2nd market might be the way to go for this. So those 2 are far above the rest of the line up? I am trying to avoid climbing the ladder as it were and go for their best one in one shot haha. Learned it the hard way that it works out to be cheaper in the end.


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## M-83

RedJohn456 said:


> That's a pretty good idea actually, 2nd market might be the way to go for this. So those 2 are far above the rest of the line up? I am trying to avoid climbing the ladder as it were and go for their best one in one shot haha. Learned it the hard way that it works out to be cheaper in the end.


Yes I would think they are better although for clarity I have only heard Ember version 1, Polaris and Ember 2.1. I've no personal experience of the other G1217 amps.

They are all well reviewed, and I guess it's as much about synergy with headphones and a dac as it is about the amp spec. 

In my personal opinion, Ember 2.1 is a brilliant amp and I can highly recommend it.

It's worth reaching out by email to Jeremy at Garage 1217 if you have any questions. He'sa great guy and very knowledgeable.


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## Hyde00

So guys I need some suggestion, I have this weird dilemma.

As I mentioned in my earlier review:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...project-polaris.725896/page-120#post-16232458

I started from *Dragonfly Red* and is looking for the desktop equivalent that's the *same sound signature but higher resolution / depth..... etc*.  For those who don't know, Dragonfly Red has boosted treble which emphasize female vocal, guitar, piano, and boosted mid bass and sub bass.  My current headphone is D2000 (bassy) and Modi Multibit.

Polaris definitely has higher resolution but the bass hits hard more in the mid bass the sub bass rumble is just not there (i.e. watching movie with explosion).  I've since got Vali 2+ just to try tubes for fun and surprisingly Vali 2+ actually hits lower than Polaris with the stock tube.

So here we have Polaris that hit hard but doesn't hit low.  Vali 2+ has amazing separation (because tube) and hits decently low but doesn't hit hard.  Dragonfly Red that hits low and decently hard but just less resolution.

Now I'm debating I could either:

1)  Get an hardware EQ like *Schiit Loki* or something.  Lol yes I know I can also do software EQ but I kind of want to try hardware EQ.

2)  Get *Liquid Spark*, I tried it briefly before buying Polaris.  At the time I thought it sounded good and bass hits low and hard but overall sound a bit dry.  I wonder if I should give it a second chance.

I read an Amazon review that this guy already owned the Polaris yet he still bought 2 more Liquid Spark because he like it so much.

"I have a few headphone amps, including the teac HA-501 and project polaris. This Monolith Liquid Spark is clean, quiet, and powerful. I like it so much that I just bought a second one so that I can compare different headphones using the same amp. I think of getting their other Cavalli amp ($700) but I am not really into tubes, and this one works SO good.
PS: Way better than the Schiit Magni 3 that I just sold."

Anyone have any experience regarding *Project Polaris vs Liquid Spark*?  Or am I safer to just get a Loki and be done?  What do you guys think?  Also I hope it's not an issue with the dac, anyone with Modi Multibit can comment on if it's suppose to reach low?

Thanks!


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## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> So guys I need some suggestion, I have this weird dilemma.
> 
> As I mentioned in my earlier review:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...project-polaris.725896/page-120#post-16232458
> 
> ...


Hey mate. I don't have experience with some of there amps you've used but I do think that Lyr 2 used would cover all bases.  You have LISST tubes as an option. Lyr 2 hits very hard and low and is good for most types of headphones.


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## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Hey mate. I don't have experience with some of there amps you've used but I do think that Lyr 2 used would cover all bases.  You have LISST tubes as an option. Lyr 2 hits very hard and low and is good for most types of headphones.


Lol damn it I was hoping to go for smaller form factor since I don't want to clutter my desk. I guess it's hard to cover all grounds eh?  Hmmmm I guess it's something to think about lol.


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## Hyde00

On another note, anyone tried their "-20 db plug and play attenuator cable"?

http://garage1217.com/new_website_011.htm (first item)

I find even at lowest setting it's still a bit too powerful and not enough usable volume range.  My previous headphone was D2000 and current headphone is D5200, both are too loud with this amp.  To my understanding is if you lower volume from software level it reduce dynamic range?

Also I think gain multiplier on this amp is 4.5x / 7.5x / 12.5x, I wonder why it's so high even in lowest setting.  You'd expect on other amps lowest setting is like 2.2x or something lol.

In any case would this be a better solution?  Though I wonder why it's so expensive..........

I feel like if it's half price I would've bought it without a heartbeat.  At current price I need to think about it a bit.......


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## tubebuyer2020

Hyde00 said:


> On another note, anyone tried their "-20 db plug and play attenuator cable"?
> 
> http://garage1217.com/new_website_011.htm (first item)
> 
> ...



Yes, I have it and it works. It's just an adapter with some resistors soldered inside. The price is realistic based on a USA person soldering using quality parts, but yes - it's expensive. This would be for _output _attenuation especially for hot-swapping headphones.

However there is a non-hidden but unobvious unique feature in most Garage 1217 amps - swappable _input _attenuation modules:





I have bought some from Jeremy (for less than 1$ per module as far as I remember) and also have made some myself (again it's simply a bunch of quality resistors):


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## Hyde00

tubebuyer2020 said:


> Yes, I have it and it works. It's just an adapter with some resistors soldered inside. The price is realistic based on a USA person soldering using quality parts, but yes - it's expensive. This would be for _output _attenuation especially for hot-swapping headphones.
> 
> However there is a non-hidden but unobvious unique feature in most Garage 1217 amps - swappable _input _attenuation modules:
> 
> ...


Wow thank you for a thorough and in-depth answer!!!

So I've tried playing around with the attenuation module (default one).

*Attenuation On:*  With it on obviously is quieter and the vocal is a bit more forward so I kind of like it but everything else sounds a bit "off" that I can't explain.
*Attenuation Off:*  With it off I think everything sounds more natural and "correct" in tone / timber but now it's too loud.

Now I'm wondering if the adaptor will have less effect on sound change.

I've tried e-mailing Jeremy again I think regarding purchasing different module but I haven't heard back.  The -20db adaptor however is like $45 USD + $15 Shipping then convert to CAD for me it just seems too much for something that just help making things a bit quieter.

*Also I'm using D5200 and I find with M9XX things sounds more natural but its amp section is weaker so I get weaker bass.  But with Project Polaris while amp is super powerful so I get nice punchy bass but high/mids feel like it's a bit "forced" for lack of better word.  I wonder if the amp is too powerful for the headphone so tone / timber doesn't sound natural to me.*

I don't know if anyone experienced this before?

At this point I'm a bit lost it's like do I spend more money to fix it?  Or do I just cut the loss and try a different amp altogether?  I'd imagine Project Polaris would be super good on 300 Ohm headphones though D5200 is around 25 Ohm.


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## Hyde00

So I recently bought a Dragonfly Cobalt with the intention to run it straight, but had unsatisfying results so out of the whim I decided to hook it up to Project Polaris and see what happens.

MAN huge difference.  So much better through Project Polaris.

*But now I have this issue where sound cuts off for 3-5 seconds randomly.  So I'm trying to isolate the issues, is it Dragonfly Cobalt or is it Project Polaris.*

Does Polaris have any form of circuit protection that cuts off the sound when input source is too high/strong......etc?  Or there's no such thing then it's most likely the Dragonfly Cobalt?

Anyone know?


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## tubebuyer2020

I would try different cables and ports. Rule out the connections first.


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## Hyde00

tubebuyer2020 said:


> I would try different cables and ports. Rule out the connections first.


lol I'm trying it with only the Dragonfly now and not using Project Polaris at all, let's see if it still happens.


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## Hyde00

Okay nope still cuts off, so Project Polaris is ruled out now, all good.

Now will test different USB ports / cables like you said, thanks!


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## M-83

@Hyde00 I wonder if it's an audio driver issue and/or a Windows OS update that's not working well. 

You can go into device manager and reinstall drivers. 

Is there a dedicated driver that you can grab off the dragonfly website?


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## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> @Hyde00 I wonder if it's an audio driver issue and/or a Windows OS update that's not working well.
> 
> You can go into device manager and reinstall drivers.
> 
> Is there a dedicated driver that you can grab off the dragonfly website?


Oh I did some test turns out it is the Cobalt, Red was perfectly fine.

Also Cobalt crap out at any volume level.  I guess time to send it back haha.


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## M-83

Hyde00 said:


> Oh I did some test turns out it is the Cobalt, Red was perfectly fine.
> 
> Also Cobalt crap out at any volume level. I guess time to send it back haha.


That's a shame. Yeah definitely time to return for a refund.


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## mowgli-kun

Question for my fellow Project Polaris lovers. If you ended up upgrading, which amp was it that made you leave behind the Project Polaris? Or have you auditioned an amp that you made you consider swapping out your Polaris?

Recently upgraded to the 2021 LCD-X, and it honestly doesn't leave me wanting for anything else, but I can't help but wonder if I can get more out of them with a "better" amp.


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## M-83

mowgli-kun said:


> Question for my fellow Project Polaris lovers. If you ended up upgrading, which amp was it that made you leave behind the Project Polaris? Or have you auditioned an amp that you made you consider swapping out your Polaris?
> 
> Recently upgraded to the 2021 LCD-X, and it honestly doesn't leave me wanting for anything else, but I can't help but wonder if I can get more out of them with a "better" amp.


Project Ember II with a decent dac


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## Hyde00

M-83 said:


> Project Ember II with a decent dac


lol can second this, personally I tried to stay with solid state due to convenience (don't need to worry about tubes and no warm up time).

BUT I've talked to another person who also owns both Polaris and Ember, he says Ember is the more capable and more holographic one.  So if you're ok with tube then Ember is the way to go.


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## mowgli-kun

Ember + tube rolling- my poor wallet. 🥲

The Polaris is such a hard act to beat with how customizable it is, can only imagine how much better the Ember might be.


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## Amish (Dec 6, 2021)

The Polaris actually sounds quite a lot like the Ember. You can without a doubt tell they are part of the same family. That said, the Ember is a more musical choice and can roll a plethora of tubes. This amp is very sensitive to tubes. It's a blast trying out different tubes for sure. I purchased the original Ember, sold it. Full of regret I bought the Ember II, sold it. I have regretted that sale as well. I'll pick another one up eventually but the next time I do, it will never leave my collection.

When I had the Ember I also had the Bryston BHA-1. While the BHA-1 was a solid amp, it was trumped by the Ember in musicality and I found myself not wanting to use the Bryston at all. The Ember also has a lot of power on tap for such a small footprint.


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## Cho Worsh (Jul 17, 2022)

Gone fishing.


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## Cho Worsh (Jul 17, 2022)

. As to the "musicality" aspect:

https://darko.audio/2018/05/musicality-talks-loud-says-nothing/

To me, the revised Topping L30 has superior sound.


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## Amish

I still own the Polaris as well. It is a great amp! Our preference may differ @Cho Worsh but we can both agree that both amps are enjoyable. 
I have one of the early Polaris amps. #8 to be exact. Though I have sold two Embers, I still own the Polaris and doubt I'll ever sell it even if it does collect dust on the shelf 98% of the time. Back when it came out though, it received a lot of attention from me.


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## fortunate son

My favorite tube with the Ember is the 6SN7. Sometimes I use the Ember/6SN7 as a tube buffer inserted into the chain in front of my solid state headamp to tame down the somewhat gritty sound the solid state amp delivers on some recordings. Fun stuff!


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## iFi audio

Amish said:


> I still own the Polaris as well. It is a great amp! Our preference may differ @Cho Worsh but we can both agree that both amps are enjoyable.
> I have one of the early Polaris amps. #8 to be exact. Though I have sold two Embers, I still own the Polaris and doubt I'll ever sell it even if it does collect dust on the shelf 98% of the time. Back when it came out though, it received a lot of attention from me.



I'm not sure whether it's just me, but there's something strangely appealing about acrylic enclosures that show what's inside


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## RedBull

iFi audio said:


> I'm not sure whether it's just me, but there's something strangely appealing about acrylic enclosures that show what's inside


Not just you LoL.

But I also have the CNC at the same time. I feel more secure pushing the tubes down with the thick CNC as the base.


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## bequietjk

iFi audio said:


> I'm not sure whether it's just me, but there's something strangely appealing about acrylic enclosures that show what's inside


Yesssssss.  I've always wondered what a acrylic-style Vioelectric V281 would look like.


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## iFi audio

bequietjk said:


> Yesssssss. I've always wondered what a acrylic-style Vioelectric V281 would look like.



Probably hot 

https://www.brinkmann-audio.de/bild.php?nyquist.jpg


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## jbarrentine (Nov 3, 2022)

It's been a long time since I plugged this amp in, and here recently I decided to ditch objective "perfection" for a while and on playing with this little amp again I'm shocked I didn't remember how punchy it was. What a little joy. The thick aluminum "enclosure" is just glorious too.  Anyone else still using it? If not what did you move to?


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## Hyde00

jbarrentine said:


> It's been a long time since I plugged this amp in, and here recently I decided to ditch objective "perfection" for a while and on playing with this little amp again I'm shocked I didn't remember how punchy it was. What a little joy. The thick aluminum "enclosure" is just glorious too.  Anyone else still using it? If not what did you move to?


I sold mine but lately start to really miss it, currently using Violectric V200 and Lyr 3 (undecided which I like better yet).

But I started looking at my old Project Polaris pictures and want to give it another go.  That being said, at this point I'm more interested in tubes so I might actually pick up Project Solstice instead.


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## jbarrentine (Nov 3, 2022)

Hyde00 said:


> I sold mine but lately start to really miss it, currently using Violectric V200 and Lyr 3 (undecided which I like better yet).
> 
> But I started looking at my old Project Polaris pictures and want to give it another go.  That being said, at this point I'm more interested in tubes so I might actually pick up Project Solstice instead.



Why not Ember II?    For that matter, aren't Ember and Polaris supposed to sound the same? I remember something like that from years ago.

Addendum: The Qutest really seems to add a tremendous sense of space with the Polaris, much more so than with the THX 789/One.


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## Hyde00

jbarrentine said:


> Why not Ember II?    For that matter, aren't Ember and Polaris supposed to sound the same? I remember something like that from years ago.


Ehhhhh since my headphone is 25 Ohm, I checked power graph and Ember would be 1W at 25 Ohm and Solstice is 0.8W at 25 Ohm so both would be plenty.

But I actually remember Polaris being too powerful for my headphone (too loud) so having less power is actually more desirable here lol. Oh and I remember now the reason I sold it was because it sounded off with attenuation module on, and with it off it sounds better but loud LOL.

As for Ember vs Polaris, I demoed my friend's Ember a long time ago so take it with grain of salt lol. But from memory I think Polaris has better bass but Ember being tube amp is a bit better at space / imaging and a little bit more pronounced treble. Different strengths. 

But most importantly Solstice is $100 cheaper than Ember LOL I'm cheap these days. I want to use the $100 saved to buy tube adapters.


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## bequietjk

Man I wish Jeremy and Solderdude collab again and start making some stuff.


----------

