# HD 800 - Moon Audio vs SAA vs Toxic Cables



## atarkovsky

Good evening.
   
  I've just started building my system and following the high advice received from a friend in regards to the most knowledgeable place on the web in regards to the audio world - here I am!
   
  I've spent the last 2 days browsing and reading the forums to get a start... but still a little bit in the out right now.
   
  To keep it short. The HD800 have arrived today. For the moment they will be connected to my desktop PC, via a Asus Xonar Essence STX. I will be listening to FLACs - mixed genres (from classical, to jazz & rock) and sometimes movies (BluRay).
   
  I am undecided what to choose from the following :
   
*Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Headphone (Furutech Gold Plated 1/4")*
   
*Stefan AudioArt Endorphin FS*
   
*Toxic Cables Pure OCC Silver cable 1/4" Viablue* (or Silver Poison - seems to be the same thing, but duplicated on the website).
   
  Given my current situation, what would be you advice?
   
  Thanks and your time is very much appreciated.


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## Mad Max

Probably not the Silver Dragon.  You might not enjoy bright cable + bright headphone.


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## Toxic Cables

I cannot seem to find *Toxic Cables Pure OCC Silver cable 1/4" Viablue *on the website for the HD800, just Silver Poison, but that is indeed how i refer to the Silver Poison also.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





atarkovsky said:


> Good evening.
> 
> I've just started building my system and following the high advice received from a friend in regards to the most knowledgeable place on the web in regards to the audio world - here I am!
> 
> ...


 
   
CARDAS, or if you can afford it...Carda Clear. though,  I'd say a dedicated hp amp might be your best next purchase.


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## Fairwell

I can actually see both versions of the cable on the toxic website (http://toxic-cables.co.uk/): - Sennheiser HD800 8ft Pure OCC Silver cable 1/4" Viablue £180.00 (link: http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=66) and - HD800 Silver Poison 8ft £180.00 (link: http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=50) It clearly links to a different product site. However, the products seem to be identical (same price, picture and description). So I guess it's just a mistake that it's up there twice. Maybe Kabelmeister can check this again.


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## Toxic Cables

Thanks for the links, i will take care on this today and remove one, they are both the same cable.


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## Fairwell

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Thanks for the links, i will take care on this today and remove one, they are both the same cable.


 
  Thanks, seems to be fixed now. I had just found out about this double product entry by accident a few days ago myself because I might be ending up bying one of these for my HD800 headphones.
   
  I really like these headphones except for them sounding a little bit too bright (a lot of recordings can sound a little bit too harsh and quite fatigueing in treble) and the bass, although being actually quite nice in detail and precision, mostly feels a bit lacking in the amount to me (can be taken care of by equalizing, but I'm not too fond of equalizing things and has to be done right otherwise other recordings end up sounding terrible). From all I've read about these they should be a good match here in covering those 2 issues quite well and adding some additional detail and instrument separation as well cause they use high quality silver. Choosing the right quality recordings will always remain a huge issue with the HD800 anyways, no audio cable in the world can really fix this I guess.


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## SHAHZADA123

I've been using the Moon Audio Blue Dragon cables terminated to 4 pin XLR since 18 months and am extremely happy with them.
  IME, the HD800s need at least 200 hrs for the treble to settle down.   
  Cant comment on the other two cables because I have no experience with either.


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## Fairwell

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> IME, the HD800s need at least 200 hrs for the treble to settle down.


 
  I've bought the HD800 right when they came out and have been using them for several hours each day so far (sometimes even up to 8 or 10 hours a day). Burn In didn't help really for the treble issues I'm having tbh. If the recordings are of high quality there are no issues at all. However, there are many recordings with minor flaws (I'm not talking about mp3s etc here, I only listen to lossless music and preferably with higher resolution/sampling rate) and the headphones reveals those too damn quickly (not only in treble). They are just really picky about the quality of the recording as well as the quality of the music file itself. 
   
  As for treble, I personally find them a little bit too harsh and fatigueing with tracks that are not quite that if I listen to them on my speaker setup or other headphones. Maybe the headphone amp that I'm using is not the right match for it (most people seem to prefer tubes over solid state here which I don't have) as well as cables can make the difference from what I've been reading on the forums. Apart from the issues I mentioned in the post above these headphones are just so amazing that once I've found the solution I'll be most likely in audiophile heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I definitely want to go for silver or silver/gold cables as they should provide more detail than copper cables.


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## SHAHZADA123

Until I got the Balancing Act, the Woo WA22 was my favorite amp for HD800s.
   
  As for cables, since you're already finding the treble harsh, I would not recommend a silver cable.


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## Fairwell

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> Until I got the Balancing Act, the Woo WA22 was my favorite amp for HD800s.
> 
> As for cables, since you're already finding the treble harsh, I would not recommend a silver cable.


 

 Thanks for your input. I didn't decide yet which route I'll go, but I'll take that into account. It's just so damn hard to decide.


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## Audio Addict

Another cable to consider is the Zeus from AphroditeCu29. I have two of them. One is the 24AWG UPOCC copper on my T1. The other is a 22AWG UPOCC copper on my HE6.


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## Fairwell

Quote: 





audio addict said:


> Another cable to consider is the Zeus from AphroditeCu29. I have two of them. One is the 24AWG UPOCC copper on my T1. The other is a 22AWG UPOCC copper on my HE6.


 
  These seem to be really nice cables, the prices are quite high already. In this price range you can also already get DHC complements or mundorf zendo cables etc. It's really a tough call to decide on these products since you can't just try them out. So it comes down to reading all the reviews/impressions and going for the product that suits your personal liking most. At a certain price range I expect every product from a serious company to sound good. The question is always if it only sounds good or if it's blowing you away, how the price-performance ratio looks like and, something which is most likely the most important thing, which product suits your personal needs (music styles, setup, personal likes) most. 
   
  Thanks for your input though, I haven't really considered them yet at all. One more product to check out.


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## Mad Max

Too bad there isn't a comparison between all the cables mentioned in this thread.


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## Fairwell

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Too bad there isn't a comparison between all the cables mentioned in this thread.


 
  That's so true. From all the different audio gear you can buy on the market I find it most difficult to find decent comparisions between audio cables. The only thing I usually happen to see are reviews of them, but hardly ever well presented side-by-side comparisions like there are for for amps etc.
   
  So I personally look mostly at the used materials, the finish, warranty and price together with the usually known stuff of how copper/silver etc sound different and are most likely going to match my personal needs.


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## atarkovsky

I ended up buying the SAA Endorphin. Package arrived today. Opening now...


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## qawsedrf

atarkovsky said:


> I ended up buying the SAA Endorphin. Package arrived today. Opening now...




Do let us know how it sounds. The SAA Endorphin is a really sexy cable! Pictures too please.


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## TwoEars

Indeed!
   
  Pictures and impressions por favor!


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## atarkovsky

Ok, my kind Sirs!
   
  First impressions with pictures to follow a little bit later in the day :
   
  1) dealing with SAA (James) was a pleasure. I admit I probably annoyed him to some extent with my questions and requests, but the fellow came through with speedy replies and no swearing  He also sent tons of info and details, along with suggestions in regards to my questions.
   
  2) I did have to wait quite a few for the cable (around 5 weeks), but I was warned before and James did stick to the promised ship date. After that, took 4 working days for the cable to reach me (considering it was shipped on a Saturday and I live in EU). Proper packing, in a nice big box. Cable and connectors were packed separately. The whole thing was connected to some kind of "web" to stop it from moving inside the package + extra protection. As you can imagine, it arrived in excellent condition + additional info.
   
  3) WOW. Stock cable for the HD800 does suck. I didn't really believe I'd find some difference, but hey. I was wrong. Don't imagine some miracle happening. It won't. But, the sound is MORE clear. This was the first thing I noticed. No more background noise. I can now hear the whole range of whatever I'm listening, including background sounds I couldn't recognize before. The sound is just fit, not too harsh on the highs or too soft. 
   
  4) It does look damn sexy! 
   
  More later.


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## qawsedrf

Where are all the updates? :mad:


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## hifimanrookie

​


qawsedrf said:


> Where are all the updates? :mad:



Guys..Toxic cables just came out with a very sexy black widow 22awg copper cable! Check their toxic appreciation thread! u wont believe their prices..I have one on order for my he500.. Cant wait to try him out


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## atarkovsky

Well, after about 2 years of usage, I can say I was very satisfied with the Stefan AudioArt Endorphin FS cable. Granted, its not perfect (bass was on the low side), but it offered a cleaner sound than the stock.


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## AlanU

*I'm considering on buying ohno copper wires.....I'm usually quite impressed with the single crystal copper.*
  
*I use a Grant fidelity tube processor and just by using a Furutech FP3Ts20 power cord my mids have dramatically sweetened and a more full bass response.*
  
*I think anyone considering on buying new cables should also change other components in the chain like interconnects, Power cords and most importantly power conditioning.*
  
 http://audiosensibility.com/blog/products-2/headphone-cables-occ-copper/#!/Impact-SE-Headphone-Cable-Sennheiser-HD800/p/33050608/category=8516930
  
 I


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## tdmk

have anybody ever tried the norne audio v2 , i found it match with senheisser HD 800 from this link below ,
 http://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/
 and also the price is not too expensive , i also find my HD 800 too bright and do not have any solution till now,
 any idea is appreciated.


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## LAMark

Hope this doesn't constitue a thread hijack, but since I've also been in the market for a replacement cable, I've collected a table of info with links and pricing from the manufacturers websites for a 10 foot HD800 cable with 4-pin XLR connector since that what my amp has. Listed below for your reference.
  

Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite (8’)$264Price is for 8 foot version, the max shown on the web siteMoon Audio Blue Dragon V3$290 APureSound v3 cable$310 Headroom Cardas $328Listed as out of stockMoon Audio Black Dragon V2$340 Headroom$350 Toxic Cables 22ga Silver Poison (8')$350Price is for 8 foot version, the max shown on the web siteSennheiser stock$380 Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3$425 Norne Draug v2$435 Aphrodite CU29 Zeus Quad24$442 Wywires Red$524 Moon Audio Black Dragon Premium V2$605No 4-pin XLR connector available-price shown is for 2 x 3-pinCardas Clear$690Price is for 9 foot versionSAA E Series$799 Nordost Heimdall 2$799 SAA Endorphin$899 ALO Audio reference 16 HD 800 $979


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## Currawong

It doesn't cover that many, but I started a thread here about the cables I own:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729266/hd-800-cable-comparison-alo-audio-wywires-norne-furutech


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## jhljhl

SAA Endorphin 4pin 
  
 Tames the brittle treble very well.  Gives a little more body to the sound.  Highly recommended but very expensive.


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## asterm100

Has anyone tried to shorten the factory cable or the installed in place of Jack XLR plug in?


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## BobFiggins

As someone sensitive to treble I've been looking for a new HD 800 cable. I'm an odd duck, because I love brightness and treble extension in headphones but the one thing I can't take is sibilance. This happens for me in only about 10% of my music, so it's not awful. However my ears seem to make sibilance happen where other people cannot hear it. I am very sensitive to it, and I will search forever to find something to help out. I absolutely love the HD 800. Won't say it's the best headphone there is for me, but it's the best headphone I have yet to hear.
  
 Looking forward to purchase the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 Premium and posting impressions. Will be returning it and trying the standard V2 if that doesn't help.
  
 One reason for posting this, am I going in the right direction with this? Are there other cables that can help reduce sibilance? I see a lot of posts about taming the treble, but I'm really not sure what part of the treble they mean. I tried the Anax mod, both versions, all that seemed to do was reduce the brightness, which I like. The sibilance remained. Sticking to a $500 budget for a cable.
  
 Understandably a different amp and dac do help, though one of the reasons I want to change the cable first is so my HD 800 can sound good on different setups to me. One of the painful parts of bringing headphones to headphone meets, or to a friend's house, is that it always sounds too sharp and piercing. Hard to enjoy the flavor of someone elses sound system when I keep hearing painful "sss" sounds. Looking for a sort of "fits all" solution to help out before moving into the rest of my own setup.
  
 I tried the Audio-GD NFB-1S DAC, and the treble taming was amazing. I had the HD 700 back when I tried it (awful sibilance, the worst), and it managed to completely remove the sibilance, while keeping the treble detailed and extended. Pretty much a guarantee I will be buying one of these eventually.


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## devilboy

Consider the Zoetic series from Norne. I'm placing an order today for my HD800s.


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## zappazappazappa

*Hello everybody, this is my first post despite signing up over two and a half years ago and being a regular visitor to the site.*
*  *
*My subject is a controversial one: headphone cable 'sound' - specifically with the Sennheiser HD800.*
  
*Equipment used for this test: Cyrus Signature Transport*
*                                                   Chord Hugo TT - as DAC*
*                                                   Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amp*
*                                                   Russ Andrews/Kimber mains cables/power block*
*                                                   Slic Innovations balanced analogue interconnects and single ended coaxial cables*
*                                                   Straightwire Maestro single ended analogue interconnects*
  
*I used three single ended headphone cables - The standard HD800 lead*
*                                                                               Russ Andrews/Kimber SC-2*
*                                                                               Cardas Clear  *
  
*I used all of the above on their own and also with the Russ Andrews/Kimber extension headphone lead.*
  
*I used two balanced headphone leads - The Sennheiser 800s*
*                                                                    Moon Audio Black Dragon*
  
*All were used with the Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone amp. The Chord Hugo TT was not used as a headphone amp though I plan to write a future post comparing the two and  which cables work best with it.*
  
*Just to put all of what follows into perspective the HD800 managed to achieve it's reputation as one of the best headphones in the world before any of the aftermarket cables I used were available.*
  
*Having not used the standard HD800 lead for a while my impressions were that it was competent but slightly lacking, specifically it sounded a little soft, dry and lacking space around instruments and vocals. *
  
*Next I added the Russ Andrews/Kimber extension lead which is made from Kimber PBJ (the forerunner to Kimber Timbre), this retails for £90/2 metre set in the UK - though I believe Russ Andrews now has a presence in the USA. Impressions: better - more space around instruments and vocals, better bass line, less dry/sibilant.*
  
*Next up Russ Andrews/Kimber SC-2 headphone cable. This is a custom job for the HD800's - its normally sold for the HD650 and various lesser Sennheiser models. I paid £235 for a 2.5 metre set. Impressions: smoother, can follow individual lines in the mix easier. Perhaps slightly mid forward and very slightly brightly lit in the upper mids. With the RA extension lead smoother and more natural sounding balance.*
  
*Finally, the Cardas Clear headphone Cable. This cost me £525 for a 3 metre set. Impressions: the most spacious and detailed so far. Maybe a touch more relaxed than the SC-2 but more resolution of fine detail. With the RA extension lead  in place the overall balance, surprisingly sounded even more natural.*
  
*OK, so that's the single ended leads. My conclusions are that for a relatively small outlay the Russ Andrews extension lead improved all the cables - even the uber expensive Cardas Clear. So for all you cable sceptics this is a fairly painless way to test my conclusions as RA offer a 60 day trial, money back if not happy. And no I don't work for them! Next the SC-2, this was a substantial step up on the standard lead, it might be a bit mid forward for some but still a very enjoyable listen. Finally the Cardas Clear, this is very much a traditional high end sound: lots of space,  fine resolution of detail  and the most neutral of the three but very expensive. IMO not worth 2.5 times the asking price of the SC-2 but the best overall sound of the three.*
  
*Next up the balanced leads. First Sennheiser's own 800s cable. This costs £250 for a standard 3 metre length. Hooking this up and bingo! the best so far - it is a very fresh, vibrant, open sounding cable with more power and immediacy than the single ended leads and that's balanced headphone outputs for you. However, one note of caution it is quite brightly lit in the upper registers, without actually being a bright cable overall. This gives the 'fresh' character but it can be a little unforgiving on some material.*
  
*Finally the Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable. Straight out of the plastic bag, no fancy packaging here, I was very disappointed with this cable - it sounded hard and constricted. However, having paid about £300 for it I decided to run it in for a week or so and thankfully it started to open up and soften up. It has the power and immediacy of the Sennheiser 800s cable but is not as brightly lit up top - it sounds more natural to me. One other positive for this cable on the practical front: it has an almost clothes line like (don't laugh) outer sheath which makes it almost impossible to tangle. The only part which can tangle a bit  are the exposed wires leading to the earpieces.*
  
*Phew - that's it!  So my overall winner is the Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable with the Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone amp. I believe they do a more expensive Sennheiser HD800 cable than this though it doesn't appear to be available in balanced mode unfortunately.*
  
*Hope some of this may provide some useful pointers to those of you who want to explore the performance limits of the Sennheiser HD800.*


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## johnjen

I just discovered this thread so here's my 2¢…

I have the SAA Endorphin cable, hardwired, with his mod.

I stopped even wanting to look any further.

Yes it's expensive.

But to my ears worth every penny.
And by today's standards not as expensive as others, before mods are/will be applied.

As was explained, it’s the accumulation of many small tweaks, all contributing to the whole.
The cable has many seemingly inconsequential unique aspects, as does the mod.
Together the results are sublime.

800's scale REALLY well.

JJ


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## JustinGN

I've got a cable question: my stock Sennheiser cable has been nothing but cheap rubbish since I got these beautiful headphones two years ago.  The vinyl/rubber covering is cracking, splintering, and falling apart, and both connectors have had to be super glued back together after they randomly came completely undone one day.  The headphones are undamaged, but this stock Sennheiser cable is either a defect, or just plain rubbish in terms of build quality.
  
 A quick glance around cable websites seem to indicate that most outlets want $300+ for a replacement cable for the HD800s, which I'm also calling BS on.  Moon Audio seemed particularly offensive, chalking up a $160 price difference for the exact same cable between the HD700 ($255) and HD800 ($415) for their Black Dragons, and I'm seeing other sites pull similar stunts.
  
 For someone whose amp/DAC combo likely won't let him hear any appreciable difference between cables anyway, can anyone recommend a good replacement cable for my HD800 that isn't inflated in price just because of the HD800's MSRP?  I've basically written off Moon Audio entirely because of that crap, and I'm loathe to go back to a new Sennheiser cable given the issues I've had thus far.  I just want a solidly constructed, neutral-sounding cable.  No muss, no fuss, no extravagance or snake oils.
  
 For those of you who have swapped cables (or are sticking with Sennheiser defaults), what's your recommendation for a simple replacement?


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## zappazappazappa

Sounds to me like you've got a faulty cable. Don't know where you live but my experience of Sennheiser  service in the UK is very good. I brought mine second hand from eBay but returned them for repair due to a mechanical problem with the left earpiece. They charged £150 to service the phones  but upgraded  pretty much everything bar the drive units, including new cable so I would say you should contact your official Sennheiser service centre and explain your problem. With regard to companies offering alternative cables for the HD800's I don't see how you can say you won't experience any difference/improvement in sound quality unless you've actually tried them. If you have - my apologies. I have dealt with Moon Audio and they provide a fast efficient service, also the Moon Audio Black dragon balanced cable sounds great!


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## JustinGN

Thanks for the advice!  I'll reach out to Senn US, and see if they'll help me out.  On the likelihood the don't, however, I guess I should clarify that I doubt my ability to hear an appreciable difference in cables because the analog cabling I use elsewhere is all just standard Belden wire terminated by BJC - nothing particularly special, just telecom grade stuff for reliability.  Furthermore, the HD800s are driven by an overly sensitive ASUS Xonar Essence One, that is almost definitely holding them back in terms of capability; in that sense, it's unlikely I'll hear any cable difference until I give the HD800s additional breathing room, so I don't want to spend the extra cash on it at the moment.
  
 Thanks for the input thus far, though! More than I've been able to gleam in my Google searches thus far, that's for sure.


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