# The Decware  TABOO MK 111 Thread



## Frank I

t
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  I had DMinches and Zheng over today comparing the new Taboo with the Old Taboo. We also had Glenn new OTL David bought and it was an amazing amp as well as the outstanding Woo W6SE. The headphones on hand were the T1,HD800<LCD2.2<LCD3.AT3000anv. We all came to the consensus that the new Taboo MK 111 is a step up over  the older model with subtle but noticeable difference in improved soundstage and separation of the instrument within the soundstage. The new lucid mode feature is interesting in that it moves around stuff in the soundstage. Some may like it other may not. It is just a flick of the switch and can be turned on or off according to your preference. it played all headphones easily. 
  
 Another  consensus was when the csp2 was hooked up to the MK111  was another step up with more dynamics and better soundstage and added power to the listening experience. I had a similar experience from my last experience with the Decware setup.   I also think if you owned the Taboo 111 the differences were small enough that you may not want to upgrade to the newer model. For some a small difference would be worth the expenditure.  I will keep adding more impression and David and Zheng will also be adding their impression but I just wanted to get some pictures up and will add more  as time permits.


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## Frank I

reserved


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## jazzerdave

How does the HD800 sound with the Taboo mkIII?


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## Frank I

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> How does the HD800 sound with the Taboo mkIII?


 
  Excellent. I like the combo and likedit even more when the csp2 and Taboo were hooked up but it excellent on its own. i also prefer it with the balanced 4 pin XLR connection


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## bearFNF

Nice pictures.  Really liking the look of the Taboo MkIII.  The CSP2+ also looks nice, not sure if I like the white or the black plate better.
   
  Can you or are you going to give a list of how each was hooked up (cables, interconnects, etc?).  That would help some of us newbies.
   
  Thanks for the effort here and for answering all my questions on the other threads.


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## jazzerdave

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Excellent. I like the combo and likedit even more when the csp2 and Taboo were hooked up but it excellent on its own. i also prefer it with the balanced 4 pin XLR connection


 
   
  How does it fare compared to just the CSP2+?


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## Frank I

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> How does it fare compared to just the CSP2+?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## longbowbbs

Great pics Frank! Looks like a great time for all.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Great pics Frank! Looks like a great time for all.


 
  Thanks Dave ook most of them with my Nikon d70000 but unfortunately he not in any of them. I told him to come back so I can take some more pictures


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## Greeni

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Fran*
> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I also think if you owned the Tabioo K11 the differences were small enough that you may not want to upgrade t the newer model. For some small difference would be worth the expenditure.


 
  Thanks for the impressions.
   
  So the new Mk III is priced at $1,695 and the improvement of Mk III over Mk II is small, I guess at this price level of $1,695 there are pretty much choices that one should also consider ?


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## rated1975

Subscribed


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## longbowbbs

Quote: 





greeni said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There is a law of diminishing returns with Audio. At a certain point the price scales up and the improvements are not as large. Depends what you are seeking as to the value proposition.


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## disastermouse

I would really like to hear this amp with my HE-500. Lucid mode intrigues me and there's a certain unquantifiable romance (lust?) I feel for this amp.

How do you link a csp2+ to a Taboo and how is this not 'double amping'?

Edited to add:

I read in the other thread that balanced out was necessary for the original lucid mode. I a balanced cable still required for lucid mode?


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## Argo Duck

^^ Eric is right. Anyway, we need to see the full, detailed review and others' impressions before 'conclusions' can be drawn.

Subtle differences *can* be critical to one listener and inaudible to another.

I likely see this amp sometime in my future as I already know and appreciate the 'Decware sound' and capabilities. The switchable extra cross-feed ('lucid') will probably add value too (it finally dawned on me recently my LCD2 rev 1's SS isn't quite as narrow as most describe it for this reason alone). OTOH, I haven't yet plumbed the limits of the Taboo II, which I'm sure will keep me engaged at least another year or two.

At $1695 or any price one should always consider the options!


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## Frank I

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> I would really like to hear this amp with my HE-500. Lucid mode intrigues me and there's a certain unquantifiable romance (lust?) I feel for this amp.
> 
> How do you link a csp2+ to a Taboo and how is this not 'double amping'?
> 
> ...


 
  The csp2 is a preamp so its a natural with the taboo. The CSP2 handles the source and the other inputs fop to the taboo second input and it works well.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





greeni said:


> Thanks for the impressions.
> 
> So the new Mk III is priced at $1,695 and the improvement of Mk III over Mk II is small, I guess at this price level of $1,695 there are pretty much choices that one should also consider ?


 
  If I owned the original Taboo I would not sell it to buy the MK111 personally. I I think the new one is better with the soundstage and has wider instrument separation but for some those differences may not be small and if you read my review on the original taboo I thought and still think its a stellar performer. If you don't own the taboo then its an easy call. I think David can answer those questions better than I as he still owns the original Taboo .


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## jazzerdave

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> I would really like to hear this amp with my HE-500. Lucid mode intrigues me and there's a certain unquantifiable romance (lust?) I feel for this amp.
> 
> How do you link a csp2+ to a Taboo and how is this not 'double amping'?
> 
> ...


 
  The CSP2+ is a preamp first.  It's no different than hooking up a preamp to a power amp in a speaker system.


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## Frank I

Lucid mode switch works both balanced and unbalanced so if your running a single ended headphone like I do with the At3000anv it will work fine


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## longbowbbs

It worked for me with the HD800's in SE.


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## Argo Duck

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> Edited to add:
> 
> I read in the other thread that balanced out was necessary for the original lucid mode. I a balanced cable still required for lucid mode?


 
   
  I may stand corrected but AFAIK (and hear) lucid mode fully operates with the previous Taboo model(s).
   
  When Steve Deckert announced the new Taboo (in the Decware forum), one of his motivations was he considered lucid mode compromised through the headphone jack as compared to what Taboo does with speakers. In his view, the new design makes lucid mode work just as well for headphones.
   
  Not having heard the new model, I'll let Frank and the others comment how well this has worked out - and whether it works with SE or only through the balanced jacks.
   
  Edit: oops I see Eric and Frank got there before me, and with the full story.
   
  Frank, great notes already and looking forward to the full review obviously (take your time - no pressure lol).


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## MacedonianHero

Nice photos and looking forward to more impressions of this great looking amp! 
   
  How where the LCD-3s with the Taboo MKIII?


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## estreeter

Guys, has anyone here tied the MKIIII with *speakers* ? I'm guessing something 90dB or higher, mild impedance curve ? 
   
  Thanks,
   
  estreeter


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## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Nice photos and looking forward to more impressions of this great looking amp!
> 
> How where the LCD-3s with the Taboo MKIII?


 
  They worked well with the MK111 and David can give more insight with that headphone sounded good with the lcd3.  We used the lcd2,2 for most comparison as we had two of them . Good match IMO


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## Frank I

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, has anyone here tied the MKIIII with *speakers* ? I'm guessing something 90dB or higher, mild impedance curve ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> estreeter


 
  I have not heard them but I believe Eric did at the decware visit.


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## MacedonianHero

frank i said:


> They worked well with the MK111 and David can give more insight with that headphone sounded good with the lcd3.  We used the lcd2,2 for most comparison as we had two of them . Good match IMO




Cool, thanks Frank.


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## estreeter

Thanks Frank - I promise to check out the Decware forum when I get a chance !


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## Landmantx

Subscribed! Can't wait to hear full reviews. 

One thing Longbow pointed out is that the MK3 is not too much more than an MK2 due to all the upgrades being standard on the MK3. 

I just pulled the trigger, because to my humble eyes there is not one better looking headphone amp on the Market. It sounds pretty good too 

I had been eyeing the white MK2 for some time and always thought it was stunning. The MK3 turns it up to 11!!!


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## disastermouse

landmantx said:


> Subscribed! Can't wait to hear full reviews.
> 
> One thing Longbow pointed out is that the MK3 is not too much more than an MK2 due to all the upgrades being standard on the MK3.
> 
> ...



Yes! The white/black is stunning!


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## dminches

The LCD-3s sounded excellent with the Taboo MKIII.  I own the prior version of the Taboo and agree with Frank that the new Taboo has a slightly wider soundstage and some additional detail.  If you like the LCD-series with the older Taboo then you will certainly like it with the MKIII.


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## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The LCD-3s sounded excellent with the Taboo MKIII.  I own the prior version of the Taboo and agree with Frank that the new Taboo has a slightly wider soundstage and some additional detail.  If you like the LCD-series with the older Taboo then you will certainly like it with the MKIII.


 
  Good to hear. Thanks for the confirmation Dave.


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## longbowbbs

estreeter said:


> Guys, has anyone here tied the MKIIII with *speakers* ? I'm guessing something 90dB or higher, mild impedance curve ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> estreeter




The Taboo had no trouble driving the Decware DM945's. The DM945's are 94db. We used the CSP2+ for the Pre amp. Good system! Very holographic as a near field monitor. I was sitting about 8 feet from the speakers and they were about 8 feet apart. I am likely to get a pair to go with my CSP2+ and Taboo as a small Man Cave system.


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## estreeter

Thanks - 94dB - gives me something to work with. Happy days indeed.


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## disastermouse

This thing is pure Steampunk gorgeousness! Between that and the somewhat unusual design, it would have to turn the stomachs of the Cult of Objectivity. That only makes me want it more.


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## estreeter

I dont know too many tube amp owners who are too concerned about said cult


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## Duckman

I wish I didn't hear it mentioned that the Taboo III still 'requires' the CSP2 pre to sound its best. I'd be very keen if it sounded its best directly from my DAC.


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## Landmantx

Best is a relative term. It will sound its best with a $7000 DAC as well. You have to stop somewhere and I am sure that for the money the Taboo will hold its own against any Tube Amp out there in its price range and offers Lucid modes to boot. Just look at the CSP2 as an opportunity to tweak it in the future when you run out of toys to buy. I would imgagine, the CSP2+ probably would make just about any thing sound better, so don't hold that against the Taboo. 

My question of no real significance is do you think the MK3 could drive the Tekton Pendragon with any authority as a stopgap until I could afford a Torii?

I saw that introductory offer on the ZU Soul MKII and got my brain going down another rabbit hole


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## Argo Duck

*Duckman*, just for another point of reference, I have gone back to preferring the Taboo II - which has less gain than the III - *without* preamp. I find its power and dynamics more than enough and that it's simply more transparent.

That's with LCD2 r1. With (inefficient) speakers Taboo sounds better (fuller, weightier, more dynamic) with CSP2 included.

Of course, might be just me, or the particular tube-sets I've rolled with so far...I certainly can't dispute what Frank et al heard in their meet!


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## longbowbbs

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I wish I didn't hear it mentioned that the Taboo III still 'requires' the CSP2 pre to sound its best. I'd be very keen if it sounded its best directly from my DAC.


 
  Duck...You had a Stratus Dude??!!
   
  I would love to compare the CSP2+, Taboo MK II or III both separate and together with the Stratus just to get some point of reference.
   
  I am reaching, for me, the serious edge of diminishing returns.


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## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Best is a relative term. It will sound its best with a $7000 DAC as well. You have to stop somewhere and I am sure that for the money the Taboo will hold its own against any Tube Amp out there in its price range and offers Lucid modes to boot. Just look at the CSP2 as an opportunity to tweak it in the future when you run out of toys to buy. I would imgagine, the CSP2+ probably would make just about any thing sound better, so don't hold that against the Taboo.
> 
> My question of no real significance is do you think the MK3 could drive the Tekton Pendragon with any authority as a stopgap until I could afford a Torii?
> 
> I saw that introductory offer on the ZU Soul MKII and got my brain going down another rabbit hole


 
  +1... Individually they are excellent amps. The HD800's sound fantastic with either of them by themselves. Pairing them changes the sound signature. It is a YMMV situation with HP's. If you are going to drive speakers then the pair provides a fuller more solid experience. I would prefer them together with speakers.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I wish I didn't hear it mentioned that the Taboo III still 'requires' the CSP2 pre to sound its best. I'd be very keen if it sounded its best directly from my DAC.


 
  It sound excellent on ots own/The csp2 if you have one adds more dynamics to it.  So for most they would be satisfied without adding the csp2 but if people decde to run a full system its noce to know you could add the preamp and improve the dynnaic bit many may prefer t standalone for headphone usage.


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## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Best is a relative term. It will sound its best with a $7000 DAC as well. You have to stop somewhere and I am sure that for the money the Taboo will hold its own against any Tube Amp out there in its price range and offers Lucid modes to boot. Just look at the CSP2 as an opportunity to tweak it in the future when you run out of toys to buy. I would imgagine, the CSP2+ probably would make just about any thing sound better, so don't hold that against the Taboo.
> 
> My question of no real significance is do you think the MK3 could drive the Tekton Pendragon with any authority as a stopgap until I could afford a Torii?
> 
> I saw that introductory offer on the ZU Soul MKII and got my brain going down another rabbit hole


 
   
  For the Pendragon or the Soul, the Taboo should be a fine stop-gap solution, especially if you don't have a large listening room.  For speakers with effeciency around 94dB and lower (like mine), the Taboo is really only suitable on it's own in small rooms or for near-field listening.  Now this is only with my experience with my Taboo mkII (which you'll hear later today), but there's not that much of a difference between the two models.


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## dminches

Here are my listening impressions from yesterday's mini meet at Frank's:
   
  1 - We compared the Taboo III with the Taboo II with 2 pairs of LCD-2.2.  The Taboo III is an improvement over the Taboo II.  It has more detail in the mids and slightly wider soundstage.  The vocals were more forward and the sound was a bit brighter.  The differences weren't huge but they were apparent.
  2 - I wouldn't go out and buy a III if I owned a II, but if my favorite headphones are low impedance and I was looking for an amp I would seriously consider the III.  
  3 - For high impedance cans the Taboo III is improved with the CSP2.  The is much more power, which there should be.
  4 - With high impedance cans Glenn's OTL bested all the amps.  The Glenn OTL/T1 combination may have been my favorite and that is saying a lot since I love my LCD-3s.
  5 - The Woo 6 SE is a fine sounding amp and is in the same league as the Taboos.
   
  Questions?
   
  Thanks to Frank for arranging all this.


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## longbowbbs

Thanks for the impressions, Dave. I wish I could have been in on the fun with you all!


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## dminches

Eric, find your way to the east coast and we will set something up.


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## LionTamer

Quote: 





dminches said:


> 5 - The Woo 6 SE is a fine sounding amp and is in the same league as the Taboos.
> 
> Questions?
> 
> Thanks to Frank for arranging all this.


 
  Is there anything more you can add to the comparison of Woo 6 SE to the Taboo?  There aren't many that have had a chance to compare those 2 amps.  I will get a chance this coming weekend at SSI to hear the Woo 6 SE and 22 for use with my new LCD 3's, so would appreciate any comparison of tonality and dynamics between the 6 SE and Taboos, as that would give me a good point of reference that I will then be able to extrapolate by comparing the Woo 6 SE and 22 (along with other headphone amps that'll be there).  When I say tonality, I mean in terms of richness, depth of detail, soundstage, etc.  I'd expect similar overall frequency response between good amps - at this level, it's the texture/tone that changes - ie, not what notes it plays, but HOW it plays them.
   
  Thanks for any insight!


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## Llloyd

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, has anyone here tied the MKIIII with *speakers* ? I'm guessing something 90dB or higher, mild impedance curve ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> estreeter


 
   
  I have the old taboo with 87db Napa Acoustic and they go pretty loud for the most part. I'm not gonig to bring the house down but for the price (200USD) everything they do is pretty damn amazing. I think it's fine for a small room but I think overall 90+ Would be best.  Steve recommends 93+ I'm pretty sure.  Most of the time I use my speakers I'm at my desk so it's not really an issue.  Sometimes I listen in bed as well and the most I go is typically 10-11 oclock. On average I turn my volume to 9 for my speakers, and about 8/7 for my HE-500.  Right now I'm watching a stream with speakers and my volume is like.. about 7 haha so yeah.  I'd still recommend 90dB or more especially if you like to crank it.  I couldn't find any cheap bookshelf speakers for such little money so I settled for the napa acoustics after demoing them in a local store.  I've been very happy and I will not upgrade them until I move somewhere where there is more space.  For now they serve their purpose.  My next upgrade will surely be my DAC, but doubtful I need more audio production stuffs rather than crazier audiophile gear that may not give me the returns that I'm hoping for.


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## dminches

The differences I heard are those which will vary from person to person and from headphone to headphone.  Both amps have excellent detail and a nice soundstage.  The cost of the amps differs by $500-$700 so that is a consideration.


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## Landmantx

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/01/25/part-ii-digging-in-to-the-tekton-pendragon/

The answer to my question. Here a guy is driving the Pendragons with a 3 watter to high volume. Now I need to save for speakers to complete my Nerd-fi gettup!!!


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## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/01/25/part-ii-digging-in-to-the-tekton-pendragon/
> 
> The answer to my question. Here a guy is driving the Pendragons with a 3 watter to high volume. Now I need to save for speakers to complete my Nerd-fi gettup!!!


 
  Those speakers are very nice looking speakers and I have heard good things about tektron. He was using Fostex driver in most of his single speaker designs and the Taboo should be up to the task with that 98DB efficiency


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## Argo Duck

^^ interesting read about those pendragons Matt. They could go great with the Taboo. (And the guy tried them with a plinius reference too - the successor to my sa-250!)


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## estreeter

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> I have the old taboo with 87db Napa Acoustic and they go pretty loud for the most part. I'm not gonig to bring the house down but for the price (200USD) everything they do is pretty damn amazing. I think it's fine for a small room but I think overall 90+ Would be best.  Steve recommends 93+ I'm pretty sure.  Most of the time I use my speakers I'm at my desk so it's not really an issue.  Sometimes I listen in bed as well and the most I go is typically 10-11 oclock. On average I turn my volume to 9 for my speakers, and about 8/7 for my HE-500.  Right now I'm watching a stream with speakers and my volume is like.. about 7 haha so yeah.  I'd still recommend 90dB or more especially if you like to crank it.  I couldn't find any cheap bookshelf speakers for such little money so I settled for the napa acoustics after demoing them in a local store.  I've been very happy and I will not upgrade them until I move somewhere where there is more space.  For now they serve their purpose.  My next upgrade will surely be my DAC, but doubtful I need more audio production stuffs rather than crazier audiophile gear that may not give me the returns that I'm hoping for.


 
   
  Superb feedback, Lloyd - exactly what I was after. It's easy to get bogged down in generalisations re sensitivity, but I'm guessing the impedance curve on your Napa Acoustic's is just as important to the Taboo as any 90dB+ figure. The vast majority of my listening is nearfield, so I dont get too hung up on the requirements of folk who seem to be trying to amp a bank of JBLs in a barn somewhere


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## estreeter

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/01/25/part-ii-digging-in-to-the-tekton-pendragon/
> 
> The answer to my question. Here a guy is driving the Pendragons with a 3 watter to high volume. Now I need to save for speakers to complete my Nerd-fi gettup!!!


 
   
  That is an absolutely fantastic rave - he covers so much ground, incl headphone listening, but anyone who manages to drag the Magnepan 3.7s into his impressions of a pair of 98dB floorstanders (conventional dynamic drivers to boot) purely to illustrate the bass response of the Pendragons - let's just say that tickles me. I guess that makes me weird, but I enjoyed it.


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## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Eric, find your way to the east coast and we will set something up.


 
  That would be fun Dave! Don't have anything on the calendar yet, but it does happen.


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## Frank I

For anyone interested I officially posted the CSP2 for sale as I need to help pay for all my new recent purchases if  anyone interested PM me,


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## longbowbbs

Looks like the new Taboo passed the test! Congrats Frank.


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## toschek

frank i said:


> For anyone interested I officially posted the CSP2 for sale as I need to help pay for all my new recent purchases if  anyone interested PM me,




Frank, if you've already answered this sorry, but what are your main headphones with the Taboo? Edit: Nevermind I see you are using HD800s too. So you think the Taboo III is good enough on the HD800s that you don't see the need for the CSP2+? I'm happy to hear that because I can't afford both at once. 

I'll be using HD800s, and speakers, nothing else. 

Another couple of general questions. Does plugging in headphones kill the speaker output? If you opt for dual 4 pin xlr, does that give you two full balanced outputs or is there just one output with that configuration?


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## toschek

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Best is a relative term. It will sound its best with a $7000 DAC as well. You have to stop somewhere and I am sure that for the money the Taboo will hold its own against any Tube Amp out there in its price range and offers Lucid modes to boot. Just look at the CSP2 as an opportunity to tweak it in the future when you run out of toys to buy. I would imgagine, the CSP2+ probably would make just about any thing sound better, so don't hold that against the Taboo.
> 
> My question of no real significance is do you think the MK3 could drive the Tekton Pendragon with any authority as a stopgap until I could afford a Torii?
> 
> I saw that introductory offer on the ZU Soul MKII and got my brain going down another rabbit hole


 
   
  Those Zu Souls look sick.  Wonder how well the Taboo will drive those.


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## estreeter

FWIW, and I'm guessing it's not a whole hell of a lot, the latest Zu thread on AK was pulled because it was generating so much bad blood between folks who had heard nothing but horror stories and those who were more positive about the importance of burn-in and proper positioning. I'm led to believe its not the first time people have expressed 180-degree opposite viewpoints on a pair of Zu speakers - given that you can only get a pair via direct sale and the burn-in period appears to be lengthy, I felt I should mention it, even if its all just secondhand scuttlebutt. Google-fu, do thy thing.


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## Landmantx

I hear you on the Zu's they seem to have a 600 hour + burn in period. 

Now, if that review of the Pendragon wasn't glowing enough for your blood..... Sample this one wherein the Pens are compared quite favorably to some Very High cotton.

http://hometheaterreview.com/tekton-design-pendragon-floorstanding-loudspeaker-reviewed/?page=2

Now, back to headphones, as that is the reason for this very forum after all. I was very lucky to hear some incredible gear tonight at the Dallas mini-meet, including the Fostex Th900, LCD3, HD800 and others on some killer good amps. 

Lots to be excited about. The Zen Taboo MK2 was a delight, and we had a CSP2+ sytem in house to boot. I really have to say that I am thrilled to be getting knee deep in your hobby! The Decware gear is not only capable, but in my mind it is the best looking settup out there. You just can't go wrong with Decware gear if you are considering a tube amp. We also had a liquid glass in house and it was very resolving, but lacked the romance of the Decware kit IMO.

My ears are not trained to report on which one blew away which one, but I can say that I didn't hear anything tonight that underwhelmed. 

I even appreciated the budget champ of the night, The Mad Dog Alphas. They were outgunned, but the margin was a whole lot slimmer than the price would indicate. 

I honestly did not walk away with a "gotta have it" feeling for any one of these amazing phones over the other. They are all superb and worthy of all the praise they garner. I could not believe the Fostex Th900's over the fostex amp/dac sounded so good as a closed can, and they looked so sexy. The HD800's paired fantastically with the CSP2+ and really set a high bar for the night early on. Those that say that the HD800 is too bright have not heard it over this Decware gear! I can't wait to hear Frank's opinion of the MK3 with the 800's. It must not suck if he is putting the CSP2+ out to pasture. Even so, I am considering his unit as a pre-amp for the mk3. 

As to my ever pressing Dac question, I really liked the lush but lively sound we acheived with the Concero by Resonessence DAC, but it has limited connectivity for my application, so who knows. Back to the drawing board. 

Thanks for hosting Nick! Next time I will have some gear to contribute to the cause!

I am going to have a hard time going to sleep tonight, I am so jazzed up!!!


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## Nick Dangerous

Thanks for coming along & glad you enjoyed the trip. I'm pleased I was able to come away happy with my gear as-is. Loved the LG with the RCA 6SN7's but not for the 3x price premium.
   
  Frank's CSP+ offer is quite a deal. No wait, he's paying the recertification price, as well as shipping to and from Decware, including upgraded tubes, and two custom wood bases. Wow! I'd have been all over that by now, had I not already bought one myself.
   
  I was underwhelmed with the CSP+ with Taboo MKII for HD800 use. I'm sure the tube/volume settings need to be tweaked for maximum performance... but even so... I find the CSP+ alone with the HD800 to be sufficient for my needs.
   
  Can't wait to hear the MKIII + HD800. Ve shall see... ve shall see...


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## Landmantx

I already said YES PLEASE!!!! Hopefully, I am first in line!


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## Landmantx

nick dangerous said:


> Can't wait to hear the MKIII + HD800. Ve shall see... ve shall see...




Insurance that I get invited to the next meet!!!


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## Llloyd

Can't wait for the impressions to roll in yes.  I'm very satisfied with my mk2.  For those wondering why the price is so high, it's because all of the optional upgrades from the mk2 are standard on the mk3 if i'm not mistaken such as upgraded cryo treated caps and stepped attenuator.  The headphone jack for the taboo2 was also i think like 100 extra as well so yeah.  The price is not all that different for those wondering, it's just that those upgrades are now standard.


----------



## toschek

Hey so q-cables do look nice, any opinion on dhc "triple threat" setup as opposed to q cables?

EDIT: oh yeah, link here - http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey so q-cables do look nice, any opinion on dhc "triple threat" setup as opposed to q cables?
> 
> DIT: oh yeah, link here - http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37


 
   
  they use a similar system to the q cable earring.  I have Q cable and I really like their newest design.  I think DHC would work just as well, it looks well crafted although the q cable solution for the hifiman connectors i think i prefer over anything i've seen before.  they did a nice job making sure the connectors dont have any issues unlike the previous Q model as well as the stock hifiman as well as many others because those connectors are hell.


----------



## toschek

llloyd said:


> they use a similar system to the q cable earring.  I have Q cable and I really like their newest design.  I think DHC would work just as well, it looks well crafted although the q cable solution for the hifiman connectors i think i prefer over anything i've seen before.  they did a nice job making sure the connectors dont have any issues unlike the previous Q model as well as the stock hifiman as well as many others because those connectors are hell.




Doh, I meant to say "EDIT" there. So are the Q cables 100% OCC copper? I'm still using the stock cable on the HD800s and with the Taboo on the way I want to be prepared with the best XLR 4 pin cable I can afford (<$500).


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I already said YES PLEASE!!!! Hopefully, I am first in line!


 
  you have a PM


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Can't wait for the impressions to roll in yes.  I'm very satisfied with my mk2.  For those wondering why the price is so high, it's because all of the optional upgrades from the mk2 are standard on the mk3 if i'm not mistaken such as upgraded cryo treated caps and stepped attenuator.  The headphone jack for the taboo2 was also i think like 100 extra as well so yeah.  The price is not all that different for those wondering, it's just that those upgrades are now standard.


 
  This Taboo uses Jupitor caps which were different than the standard caps in the MK11. Steve told me these are an upgrade and they also have the XLR balanced inputs and the stepped attenuator so it fully loaded unless you want the V caps then it more money.


----------



## Frank I

The Taboo is starting to settle in a little. Steve told me two hundred hours of burn in required so I am not even close to it yet probably around 35 hrs and it sound very noce using the stock SV83 and a 5U4G Sylvania worth a Genelex 6922 in the driver section. The headphones are sounding nice. Very detailed . I will post some  early impression after 100 hr and then when I hit about 200 hours I should be more familiar with the amp and get the review up.  Promising


----------



## toschek

I'm curious what you guys think of this Wyred 4 Sound DAC compared to the Concero? http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/618197


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I'm curious what you guys think of this Wyred 4 Sound DAC compared to the Concero? http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/618197


 
  I have never heard the Concero. Seems like a good value. I love the W4S DAC-2. I replaced my Cambridge Dac Magic Plus with it and I love the upgrade.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have never heard the Concero. Seems like a good value. I love the W4S DAC-2. I replaced my Cambridge Dac Magic Plus with it and I love the upgrade.


 
   
  At our little Dallas mini-meet on Sunday (thanks Nick Dangerous), I had the opportunity to listen to the Concero with the Taboo (mk 2), CSP2+, and my Liquid Glass.  I certainly beat the pants off my Modi, but that's not saying too much.  All I can really say is that if I only really used USB audio, the Concero would be one of the few DACs on my short list.  Computer audio isn't really in my top three most often used sources, so it won't ever be in my stable, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to the hoards of Head-Fi'ers who use nothing but USB DACs (or at least use computers as their primary sources).


----------



## toschek

Well, people keep telling me I need to replace the Bifrost to thoroughly use the Taboo, so I'm looking around. I use the Bifrost both ways actually, via s/pdif for my PC, and via USB on my Mac. Mostly I use it over USB though, but only because I haven't picked up a mini to slink cable for the Mac yet, the s/pdif input on the Bifrost is far superior to USB I think. I don't have any problems with it though, in general, it resolves to the point where I can hear putzes coughing and making chit chat in well recorded symphonies, separation and dynamics are great too, so thus far I'm not getting a really compelling reason to go from one $400 DAC to another other than minimal improvements.

I can see going to a phenomenally better DAC like a Sabre 9018 model but is the Bifrost vs a lower end Saber DAC that big?


----------



## Argo Duck

^ there's a lot of flux in dac land ATM. I can't decide whether they are truly getting significantly better at less cost, or we're just seeing more and more "me too" product. Amongst all these do seem to be real VFM dacs like Concero (which I haven't heard but I respect Nick's and project86's views). But I suspect they are few and far between. 

Concerning bifrost, bushmaster, Meier stagedac and ee minimax - which I own - my view is to better them will need big $ (think PWD II or Invicta territory) or 'proven' vfm (Anedio D2).

My 2c worth or less!

(btw I did a lengthy review of three of my dacs in 2011. Fwiw, I did not find bifrost significantly outclassed on that occasion).


----------



## toschek

That Anedio DAC looks swell, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Landmantx

If I had a bifrost I would probably put the money towards something else for now. There seems to be a new Dac every other day. The return on investment is less and somewhere down the road, you can upgrade the bifrost anyway. As good as the concero is, we were listening to a Taboo LCD3 system with a $99 modi right next to it (thanks Jazzerdave!) , and the difference is not a "throw-away" difference in my short experience. The Concero was simply to my tastes in very limited experience a bit better all the way around. I would rather trust Jazzerdave and Nick who have vastly more experience. I haven't compared anything to the bifrost, but if that's what you have, save the money and buy some nice tubes for rolling!!!! Wait around a bit and see what others determine to be a great pairing and buy on recommendation. That way you don't go broke trying 15 different Dacs to find the one that works best. 

Or you could order 15 DACs and do all the research for me so I will know which one to buy


----------



## toschek

I have a lot of 6922 already!  I have to find some el84 and sv38 variants and other rectifiers to try, we ought to start a tube rolling thread eventually.


----------



## toschek

I can't wait to see what JAN-CEP 6922 or my personal favorite JAN-CEP 7308 sounds like in the input position on the Taboo.


----------



## Landmantx

Now that I have a CSP2+ and a Taboo, I will be doing some serious tube buying. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


----------



## Argo Duck

Problem is Anedio are between batches ATM. I would've already ordered their D2 otherwise.
   
*Frank* - getting back on topic - good to hear Taboo III is changing nicely and after so few hours.  I have the impression it took 200 hours and more (maybe 500) for my Taboo II's VCAPs to settle. Interested how small or large the improvement is with serious hours.
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> That Anedio DAC looks swell, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Llloyd

If I were to upgrade the D2 would be on my list of products to try in my personal system.  With the level I'm at right now with the taboo and my current DAC, and with different products being different prices for varous reasons at this level, I would definitely have to try before I buy.  Now I'm using headphones less and less.  My speakers dont really have extreme extension or resolution.  The resolution is nice but I am not getting the most out of my equipment when I use them, so in that sense I don't feel much of a need to upgrade!  Sometimes I want a closer or more involved listen and I take out my HE-500, but generally speakers are just easier to listen to in almost all ways.


----------



## Frank I

I swapped out the Stock SV83 and the 6922 Genelex today and out some Amerex EL84 O getter in with a Bugle Boy in the driver section. A very nice improvement over stock so it letting me hear differences with the swapping of tubes. i have lots of driver tubes to keep trying it with and it should be interesting to see how the different tubes change the sound. I do like the sv83 also which are the stock Russian tubes that Steve favors so much in his designs,


----------



## toschek

Hey Frank, do you have the 4 pin XLR option or not? Can you tell me (if you do) whether you get two separate stereo outputs with that option instead of left/right channel with the 3 pin XLR jacks?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey Frank, do you have the 4 pin XLR option or not? Can you tell me (if you do) whether you get two separate stereo outputs with that option instead of left/right channel with the 3 pin XLR jacks?


 
  I have the 4 pin option and yes it wo 4 pin plugs so you can use two balanced headphones


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet!!!  I made it to page four...Heh,  Don't worry I wont do this *every* day...


----------



## mwindham08

I am almost off page 4!


----------



## bearFNF

Well hurry up your holding up the line!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yeah, I know, "Chill out man, we're soldering as fast as we can!!"  Can't help it I get like that some times.


----------



## toschek

What do you guys think of these speakers for the Taboo: http://www.parkeraudio.net/95_sig.htm

95dB efficiency, where the manual says 96+, but I like the way they look and people gush about synergy with Steve's other amps. 

I'm checking out some used Klipsch Heresys over the weekend too, I scoped a few pairs on my local CL and I like the way they look, but heard iffy things about performance without a few mods.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toschek said:


> What do you guys think of these speakers for the Taboo: http://www.parkeraudio.net/95_sig.htm
> 
> 95dB efficiency, where the manual says 96+, but I like the way they look and people gush about synergy with Steve's other amps.
> 
> I'm checking out some used Klipsch Heresys over the weekend too, I scoped a few pairs on my local CL and I like the way they look, but heard iffy things about performance without a few mods.


 
  Never heard of those. The three brands I know are Tektron and the Omega Speaker I has=d owned and sold worked well with the Taboo, Check otu both those website for the speakers from tekton and alsol ook at Omega designed by Lois Choco he got some really nice high efficiency speakers as we. There is also a high efficiency forum on the audio asylum to get some great ideas to run with as well as the audio circle. Plus dont forget Steve amkes some cool speakers like the planar ribbon tweeter monitor. his speaker probably sound awesome with the Taboo


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It does sound awesome with the Taboo! DM945's
   
  I am up to the middle of Page 2. More importantly, only one Taboo ahead of me that is not shipping or in QC!


----------



## Llloyd

the final pages (1 and 2) are the most painful just a warning


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> the final pages (1 and 2) are the most painful just a warning


 
   
  Ya gotta have a dream and a goal to aim for...The final minute before the water boils is always the longest.


----------



## jazzerdave

In case anyone is interested, there is a set of Steve's previous monitors on eBay (the DM944's).  At 94dB 1W/1M, they should be fine for the Taboo, especially in small rooms or for near field listening.


----------



## Landmantx

Local pick up NY . I would have thrown $200 at them. Come on Longbow! It isn't too far for you is it??? They do have some cosmetic defects, but $200 isn't bad.


----------



## Landmantx

Page 2!!!!!!! Yeah baby Yeah!!!!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Page 2!!!!!!! Yeah baby Yeah!!!!


 
  Woot!!! Woot!!  Congrats!!
   
  Just placed an order for some balanced cables and some adapters for SE to use will I wait.  Now on to the DAC selection phase.  This one will take longer, heh, I got time...


----------



## Landmantx

I just bought Apple TV to stream music from my computer to my living room and I am stoked about it!!! Not just for the coolness factor, but mainly for the ease by which I can roll through my tunes using my iPhone as a remote. I simply love it. If there is a hit in sound quality, I can't really tell and I love the intuitive interface. For the first time ever I am really just enjoying the music! I could care less about appleTV as a TV deal, but as a music streamer it is impressive and so much cheaper than the Sonos, Peachtree and NAD Wireless Dacs. Now I am just jonesing for my newest amp. 

I think I will order up a couple of pairs of interconnects for when the CSP and Taboo make their way here. 

Matt


----------



## toschek

landmantx said:


> I just bought Apple TV to stream music from my computer to my living room and I am stoked about it!!! Not just for the coolness factor, but mainly for the ease by which I can roll through my tunes using my iPhone as a remote. I simply love it. If there is a hit in sound quality, I can't really tell and I love the intuitive interface. For the first time ever I am really just enjoying the music! I could care less about appleTV as a TV deal, but as a music streamer it is impressive and so much cheaper than the Sonos, Peachtree and NAD Wireless Dacs. Now I am just jonesing for my newest amp.
> 
> I think I will order up a couple of pairs of interconnects for when the CSP and Taboo make their way here.
> 
> Matt




Won't you still need a DAC? IIRC the appletv doesn't have analog outputs.


----------



## Landmantx

My CSP (Frank's old unit) is on the bench getting the prostate exam and a recertification. In a way I am totally excited, but in another way I am wishing it wasn't slowing down my Taboo


----------



## Landmantx

As to Dacs, I am still on the learning curve. I am tempted to just use the one in my SS amp that is a 24/192. I probably will just buy one, but which one to buy????


----------



## toschek

What kind of DAC/amp is it? A lot of folks here swear by the Concero, I'm stuck with a Bifrost for now (which I won't recommend, although I like it via toslink). 

I'm tempted to try the Concero, but it seems like too lateral a move so I am saving for something sexier like a Yulong Sabre D18 or Anedio D1.


----------



## Argo Duck

Looks interesting. Not necessarily advocating blumenstein orcas (although one of our group uses them with taboo), but their site has a FAQ that makes a lot of sense to me. Here's the link.http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/orca-speakers/orca-efficiency.html

When you mention synergy below do you mean with the parkers, or high eff' speakers in general?



toschek said:


> What do you guys think of these speakers for the Taboo: http://www.parkeraudio.net/95_sig.htm
> 
> 95dB efficiency, where the manual says 96+, but I like the way they look and people gush about synergy with Steve's other amps.
> 
> I'm checking out some used Klipsch Heresys over the weekend too, I scoped a few pairs on my local CL and I like the way they look, but heard iffy things about performance without a few mods.


----------



## disastermouse

Would the Taboo III drive Minnie Maggie's? I know nothing of speakers.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Local pick up NY . I would have thrown $200 at them. Come on Longbow! It isn't too far for you is it??? They do have some cosmetic defects, but $200 isn't bad.


 
  Local.....Hmmm....NW Wisconsin to NY.....Same longitude!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> Would the Taboo III drive Minnie Maggie's? I know nothing of speakers.


 
  magi need not apply. Mini Maggies need a powerful amp just like all Maggies do so the taboo wont drive them


----------



## snapontom

I purchased a new factory "second" set of Heresy III speakers for the Taboo.  99dB.  I like the speed, attack, and clarity.  All the friends that listen to my system are enthralled by the clarity of the Heresy, but I think that has more to do with the Taboo, CSP2+ combo.  I hooked up a powered sub to the CSP2+ as well.  I have to be careful how much I turn up the volume on the sub or how high I turn up the Hz crossover because it makes the music fatiguing.  I would love to have a $3k to $4k fast, tight, remote control sub.  I would also like to have a great turntable.  These are things I research and dream about when I buy a Powerball ticket.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Looks interesting. Not necessarily advocating blumenstein orcas (although one of our group uses them with taboo), but their site has a FAQ that makes a lot of sense to me. Here's the link.http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/orca-speakers/orca-efficiency.html
> 
> When you mention synergy below do you mean with the parkers, or high eff' speakers in general?


 
   
  Parkers in particular, apparently these 95 mkII were specifically designed with the se34i.3 in mind and are really well matched to Decware amps generally.


----------



## toschek

Those orcas look very nice, but 100hz bottom end seems to force the use of a sub, which I'd like to avoid due to space constraints (home office in my apartment, shares a wall with my neighbor's bedroom).
   
  I'm looking for something which ideally can get down to 45-55hz on it's own and maybe add a sub in a few years when I move to a larger apartment or house.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yes I since read the testimonials. Steve evidently approved of the first version. They include sensible features like (so it looks in the picture) a curved cabinet which IIRC helps eliminate internal standing waves (less bracing needed). Simple, almost cross-overless design.

I'm using Kef unipolar satellites from the KEF KIT 100 (a home theatre system), about 85dB efficient without sub. Taboo makes them sound really good, but with that efficiency they're best near-field. (I've tried Taboo twice with my main speakers, normally driven by an SS monster amp. Taboo does a good job with these speakers too - five drivers but a simple crossover. They reach a claimed but plausible 90dB/1W/1m).

I was strongly tempted by the Orcas for my home study/office. These Parkers might be better - as you say, they provide more bass reach.

Btw, it was really the FAQ about efficiency I was pointing to. Some speakers (not the Parkers I would think) have a shouty driver and unbalanced FR meaning their claimed high efficiency can be misleading. Well, so the FAQ claims 

Edit: I hear you about the sub. I use one driven from the CSP2, using the CSP2 in combo with the Taboo. With speakers, the Taboo works best with CSP2 in front. I turn the sub waaay down. It's presence is subtle, but I sure notice it's missing when I turn it off. So does my wife, who is greatly relieved when I do that!


----------



## Landmantx

I am still in love with the Tekton Pendragon. I looked at the Souls, but the Tektons are just a better value all around. I spoke to Eric, who makes them and he said that they would pair beautifully. He is a real craftsman, kind of like Steve Deckert. Not the most attractive speaker made, but I have no WAF to consider now that I am divorced. The Tekton Lore's or Enzo's are a bit smaller and still have great efficiency and range. The Enzo's are 6 ohm, but I am sure they would still be pretty great. 

I also considered the Decware MG944, but they don't have quite the full range or sensitivity of the Pendragons. They look a world better though. 

One of the things I love about my CSP-Taboo combo is it's versatility, but it also makes me get tired head looking at all the options both with phones and with speakers. 

I wish I could just buy all the best cans, but that just will not make my budget anytime soon.


----------



## longbowbbs

landmantx said:


> I am still in love with the Tekton Pendragon. I looked at the Souls, but the Tektons are just a better value all around. I spoke to Eric, who makes them and he said that they would pair beautifully. He is a real craftsman, kind of like Steve Deckert. Not the most attractive speaker made, but I have no WAF to consider now that I am divorced. The Tekton Lore's or Enzo's are a bit smaller and still have great efficiency and range. The Enzo's are 6 ohm, but I am sure they would still be pretty great.
> 
> I also considered the Decware MG944, but they don't have quite the full range or sensitivity of the Pendragons. They look a world better though.
> 
> ...




So Eric is comfortable with the CSP2+>Taboo>Pendragon combo....given the review of the Pendragon that would be something for the money! I would love to hear them sometime.


----------



## toschek

snapontom said:


> I purchased a new factory "second" set of Heresy III speakers for the Taboo.  99dB.  I like the speed, attack, and clarity.  All the friends that listen to my system are enthralled by the clarity of the Heresy, but I think that has more to do with the Taboo, CSP2+ combo.  I hooked up a powered sub to the CSP2+ as well.  I have to be careful how much I turn up the volume on the sub or how high I turn up the Hz crossover because it makes the music fatiguing.  I would love to have a $3k to $4k fast, tight, remote control sub.  I would also like to have a great turntable.  These are things I research and dream about when I buy a Powerball ticket.




Well, I went and looked at a used pair of Heresy IIs today, and they sound just great. However, they are way too big for my listening area so I will have to draw a line through that option. The guy whose pair I auditioned was running them through a Decware mini-tor and they sounded awesome though, so if you do have the space for them they are a great option for Decware amps.

Make sure if you buy a pair though that they'be been serviced recently or plan on taking them in to be re-capped, etc.


----------



## toschek

Anyone tried Tekton 81t? Seems like they might do well for a bookshelf/desktop system with the Taboo. I really wish I had room for towers, damn apartment living.


----------



## longbowbbs

I had not heard of Tekton until recently. Interesting running around their website. Another possible option with the Taboo....


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I had not heard of Tekton until recently. Interesting running around their website. Another possible option with the Taboo....


 
  I had mentioned this but besides Tektron the Omega speakers are also a great option with the Decware amps. Louis Choco from Omega in Connecticut been build speakers for ove r20 years and they are also fantastic speakers with the taboo. He has the Hoyst Beresford line he sells for about 750.00 with a single 8 inch driver and like 98DB efficiency.


----------



## toschek

I'm doing some "due dilligence" window shopping for DACs today.  Everyone hates the Bifrost apparently, so I guess I should look around regardless of the fact that I have no complaints about the Bifrost whatsoever over toslink.  USB can be problematic sometimes on the Mac, I get occasional artifacts, but over toslink I've never experienced it, nor on Windows over USB with the driver.
   
  Anyway, back to it.   How do y'all think a CEntrance DACmini CX would do with the Taboo MKIII?  I like that it has a pre-amp/headphone amp integrated into it, I am guessing that will help fill out the sound a bit with the Taboo?   Or is that something that I should be avoiding in this case?
   
  EDIT:  The other one I'm looking at is the Metrum Octave (or Octave Mk II if I can import one somehow with 115v.)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





toschek said:


> EDIT:  The other one I'm looking at is the Metrum Octave (or Octave Mk II if I can import one somehow with 115v.)


 
   
  One up in the For Sale area for a nice price....
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/657012/metrum-octave-nos-mini-dac-near-mint


----------



## Argo Duck

*toschek*, you could do worse than start with Bifrost! It aint *bad*, but the Taboo is so transparent and resolving (dependent on tube choice of course) you can definitely hear DAC differences.

Of course, there's better around - which is why Schiit themselves have Gungnir and (eventually) their statement dac placed above it.

Have you read through the Metrum Octave thread? It seems (though this is not universally agreed) you need to feed it over-sampled input to avoid roll-off, typically -3dB at 20kHz with non-oversampling DACs like the Metrum.

In the thread I noticed a lot of people were highly enthused about its natural and resolving sound, but subsequently moved it on?! Not enough air, or hi-fi excitement perhaps? IDK.

The new Hex has re-energized interest and seems a stellar performer (Six Moons [hmm!] and more importantly some head-fier impressions). The Octave II inherits some of its technology. Meantime the original Octave is available at a discount with 40 units left as of a few days ago, and of course there's Eric's link above! 

I would be surprised if you can't order it with 115v?!


----------



## longbowbbs

Part of the issue with the Octave seemed to be how to source it via USB. You need a Stello U3 or something like it to have a USB input for the Octave. By the time you add on that type of additional unit you are adding another $200-$500 to your chain. That puts you in W4S DAC-2 range....


----------



## toschek

Yeah, I am just going to stick w/ what I have for now.  I could blow so much money for very minor improvements or worse yet, improvements that are not even audible.   What I really need to focus on is speakers, then phono stage & a then a decent MM cartridge.   I have so much vinyl and I'm seriously neglecting that part of my chain.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yeah, I am just going to stick w/ what I have for now.  I could blow so much money for very minor improvements or worse yet, improvements that are not even audible.   What I really need to focus on is speakers, then phono stage & a then a decent MM cartridge.   I have so much vinyl and I'm seriously neglecting that part of my chain.


 
   
  Nah, blow all your money on more tubes!  Everyone needs more tubes right? 
   
  In all seriousness, which Ortofon Black cartridge is it that you have.  If it's the 2M Black, there really aren't many (if any) better moving magnet carts on the market.  What phono stage do you use?  You could always start saving up for the ZP3...


----------



## toschek

I use a POS Behringer Pre-Amp, I only needed that at the time for Ms. Pinky (A MAX/MSP based DJ setup, kind of like a bargain Serrato Scratch).   It does the job, but I'm sure I can do much better than it.   I think I paid $14.99 for it at Guitar Center.  I was playing out with this setup, and I really didn't want to put more than that amount into the setup I had at the time in case someone stole something when I wasn't looking.   
   
  At home I used the Marantz's built in phono input.   Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on how you look at it), the Marantz died recently and I have no idea what's wrong with it & no desire to fix it because I'm tired of how it sounds.   Since then I've been using the Behringer phono amp with the Lyr & it's allright but definitely not great, I can tell what's being fed to the Lyr is not very full, sound stage & details really suffer a lot.


----------



## estreeter

No shortage of 90dB+ floorstanders out there today, but it's interesting when you start to look at bookshelves from the big name manufacturers : there must be an advantage to offering a *4-ohm, 83dB speaker *for nearfield listening, but it's not terribly encouraging for anyone contemplating a SET amp. Dynaudio, ProAc, Paradigm, KEF - the list goes on.  You may not need the sheer volume in a nearfield environment, but you do need bass grip.


----------



## toschek

Any thoughts on these?  http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sansui_sp_x6000.html
   
  I found a local seller with a pair for $50, 95dB, kind of late 60s/early 70s ugly cool styling but on paper they look nice at least.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Any thoughts on these?  http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sansui_sp_x6000.html
> 
> I found a local seller with a pair for $50, 95dB, kind of late 60s/early 70s ugly cool styling but on paper they look nice at least.


 
  I see those quite frequently never heard Sansui speakers but they were more know for their receivers than speakers. Advent and A&R were popular in that same period as were the Klipsch speakers.


----------



## toschek

frank i said:


> I see those quite frequently never heard Sansui speakers but they were more know for their receivers than speakers. Advent and A&R were popular in that same period as were the Klipsch speakers.




Yeah, I saw someone compare them favorably to Klipsch Heresys, for $50 then maybe not a bad deal. My wife really likes 70s looking stuff so it wouldn't be too hard to get her approval on these, she absolutely hates the look of all the Zu speakers so I'm afraid those are out of the question.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yeah, I saw someone compare them favorably to Klipsch Heresys, for $50 then maybe not a bad deal. My wife really likes 70s looking stuff so it wouldn't be too hard to get her approval on these, she absolutely hates the look of all the Zu speakers so I'm afraid those are out of the question.


 
   
  It's possible that while they're rated at 95dB efficient, the crossover is rather complicated which could result in variations in impedance at certain frequencies (which would mean they're not as good a proposition for the Taboo as some of these other offerings).  This is not necessarily the case, but it's a possibility.  I doubt you'll find much documentation on these in this regard, but at $50 it's not really a bad risk at all.


----------



## snapontom

BTW.  I am happy with my BITFROST.  My sources are an iPhone and MacBook.  I play music files and stream Pandora One.  I will keep it till DSD becomes mainstream.  The BITFROST did take some time to burn in.  I am amazed how good Pandora One sounds with my system and the Jazz Essentials channel is right on my tastes.  I am having fun studying tone arms and cartridges.  Wouldn't a Ortofon 12" tonearm and SPU cartridge set up look good with the Decware?  Add in a Garrard 301 turntable with a deep plinth that matches my Decware bases and a record cleaner and I'd "almost" be done.


----------



## estreeter

Snapontom, it's '*Bifrost*', or - if you prefer - 'BIFROST'.
   
http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-bifrost/
   
  That might seem pedantic, but you've gone to great lengths to capitalize the name when the manufacturer only does so in headings - if we are going to mention their product, we may as well get the spelling right,_ non _? Of course, if you have something called a 'BITFROST', I'd very much like to see some photos.


----------



## snapontom

Wow, thank you, I think.  Somehow I feel cheated out of a T.  I have always read it as Bitfrost and referred to it as Bitfrost.  Checking the DAC I see that it is actually Bifrost.  In a digital age bit seems better, bi rolls too much, kind of muddled.  This represents my first disappointment with this product.  
  I wonder when we are going to get to the point of using this thread for its intended purpose?  Not that I mind.  Anyone want to weigh in on the prospects for the Cubs this season while we wait?


----------



## Landmantx

Holy Crap! I am near the top of page 2!


----------



## mwindham08

They have really started moving them out the last couple of days


----------



## longbowbbs

Top of Page 2!


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





snapontom said:


> Wow, thank you, I think.  Somehow I feel cheated out of a T.  I have always read it as Bitfrost and referred to it as Bitfrost.  Checking the DAC I see that it is actually Bifrost.  In a digital age bit seems better, bi rolls too much, kind of muddled.  This represents my first disappointment with this product.
> I wonder when we are going to get to the point of using this thread for its intended purpose?  Not that I mind.  Anyone want to weigh in on the prospects for the Cubs this season while we wait?


 
   
  it takes a long time to get an amp shipped out from decware from the time of order


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Top of Page 2!


 
   
  And I'm number two on page two. Now the obsessive page checking really begins...


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





monelly said:


> And I'm number two on page two. Now the obsessive page checking really begins...


 
   
  and by that you mean PAIN


----------



## Argo Duck

Guys, stop looking! Sarah will bump you all back to the end of the queue


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





monelly said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No....I have patience...I do not need to check every day....


----------



## Landmantx

Sure you do. Sure you do. I think I am going to go check on mine now.....


----------



## estreeter

To Headamp you will go, a BHSE you will order. The value of *patience* you will learn.
   
  Yoda


----------



## Landmantx

Come on Master Yoda, we all know circuit boards are for pansies!!!! 

Seriously, though I wonder how a BH sounds over an SR09. I better not ever look to find out. My wallet will jump out of my pocket and run for the hills.


----------



## longbowbbs

Attention Decware Shoppers..."Parts Pulled" !!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Attention Decware Shoppers..."Parts Pulled" !!


 
   
  I'm turning green here...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey, you had an awesome WPG meet to tide you over!


----------



## Landmantx

Way to rub it in Longbow!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Way to rub it in Longbow!


 
  I will have at least a 4 day head start on you with the Taboo!!....Actually, I am pleased it is moving as quickly as it is.I expected this to be a mid May not  Mid April event. Good times!


----------



## Landmantx

Mine has to ship to TX, so you might have an extra month for all I know!


----------



## bearFNF

Tru' dat. Was a  fun time.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Mine has to ship to TX, so you might have an extra month for all I know!


 
   
  Any decision on headphones or DAC yet?


----------



## Landmantx

No, and I am running out of time thanks to this sudden burst of output from Decware.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> No, and I am running out of time thanks to this sudden burst of output from Decware.


 
   
  Heh, call the waaambulance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Mister top of page 2...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You need to git 'r done, you got a new baby on the way.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

Hey guys, I have really been enjoying reading over these Decware threads on Head-Fi. Seems like a really great company, I really like what I see from them. I am currently trying to plan out my next few purchases, looking for some advice/opinions.
   
      I eventually want to end up with a 2 headphone system (already have LCD-2.2) and a pair of monitors. I live in a small space, so I am looking for a single amp to meet all my needs. Currently looking at the Taboo MKIII and the Mini TORII as possible candidates.
   
      I really want to add the HE-6 to the mix if the mini TORII can power it to its full potential. Would it be tough to get a good tube combo with the TORII for both the LCD-2 and HE-6?
   
      If I went with the Taboo route, maybe pairing the HD800 with my LCD-2? Again, will the tube combinations be problematic? 
   
      I would also consider adding a pre-amp a little further down the road. Is it possible to use the CSP2+ headphone jack, while it is being used as a preamp? I have heard many people mention that to be a great combo with the Sennheiser HD800s. But would it be possible to get the tubes right for both the LCD2s (running off the Taboo) and the HD800s (running off the CSP2+)?  
   
      I will building my setup slowly over the next 3 years or so, one piece at a time. Upgrading my DAC also, early on in the process. Thanks for reading, any advice/help appreciated, thanks.


----------



## mwindham08

Does anyone know how many watts are put out at 50 ohms?
   
  I know the website says 4.6 watts at 8 ohms x2.


----------



## Landmantx

If you already own the LCD 2 and plan to keep them in the mix, I would say the Taboo would be a no brainer with the introductory price and the ability to power speakers. The taboo was built for that headphone. The HE-6 would probably require more power from what I have read than either of those amps put out (not speaking from any experience here). 

You could always add a CSP to the mix when you get your HD800. It is not on any introductory price and there are used ones popping up every so often (Thanks Frank!)

Nick has an incredible HD800 CSP setup. I would just copy his build, you will be very pleased. 

Beyond that I am of no help. I think Aidee has both units and uses speakers. Maybe he can comment further.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> Spoiler: ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've tried the HE-6 with the previous version of the Taboo, and it was an extremely bad match.  I've also tried my HE-6 with my 35WPC ST-70 that's closer to the Torii III in terms of power supply and output.  The ST-70 is a significantly better match.  While the Mini Tori would probably be better than the Taboo as it's transformer coupled with a beefier power supply, it's probably still not a match for the HE-6.  Now the Torii mk3 is one that I've really wanted to hear with the HE-6, and my speakers, but that's in another budget entirely.


----------



## longbowbbs

Attn. Decware Shoppers....On The Bench!


----------



## dminches

Eric, it really sucks that Decware closes for April.  You were so close....


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Does anyone know how many watts are put out at 50 ohms?
> 
> I know the website says 4.6 watts at 8 ohms x2.


 
   
  Around 1WPC maybe a little less


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Around 1WPC maybe a little less


 
   
  Power out put should be about 736mW into 50Ω.  Here's the equation:
   
  P = V^2/R
   
  P = power
  V = volts
  R = resistance
   
  If you have the power output into a known resistance, then you just multiply power by resistance and then divide by the new resistance.
  4.6 * 8 = 36.8
  36.8/50 = 0.736


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Eric, it really sucks that Decware closes for April.  You were so close....


 
  NOOOOOOOOOOOOO........
   
  Bad Dave, Naughty Dave!!.....


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Eric, it really sucks that Decware closes for April.  You were so close....


 
  That made me laugh out loud.


----------



## MoNelly

They have stubbornly refused to pull the parts on mine. That New is just sitting there, mocking me.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

I really want to get one of these Decware amps, maybe I should be cosidering the HE-500 instead of the HE-6? Looking for a complimentary phone with a little more air & sparkle in the treble to compliment the LCD-2. Maybe the HD800s are the better compliment though for the neutrality and soundstage?

Can anyone comment on using the CSP2+ as a pre-amp and also using it's headphone jack for the HD800. Thanks guys.


----------



## bearFNF

My "new" is newer than your "new", I'll trade you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wouldn't want you to have such an old "new" that's been spoiling on the shelf for so long....


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> I really want to get one of these Decware amps, maybe I should be cosidering the HE-500 instead of the HE-6? Looking for a complimentary phone with a little more air & sparkle in the treble to compliment the LCD-2. Maybe the HD800s are the better compliment though for the neutrality and soundstage?
> 
> Can anyone comment on using the CSP2+ as a pre-amp and also using it's headphone jack for the HD800. Thanks guys.


 
   
  The HE-6s are really hard to drive.  They require a lot more power than the Taboo.
   
  The CSP2+ is very good for high impedance cans, but is not the best amp for planars.  It does a nice job with HD800s but I still think the CPS2+/Taboo combination does a better job.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6. 

dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.
> 
> dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.


 
   
  For what it's worth, I preferred the HD800 straight out of the CSP2+ to the CSP2+/Taboo combination, but I didn't spend much time with it.  We were pairing Nick's CSP2+ with my Taboo mk2 at our little mini-meet, and we didn't fool around much with the input/output level pots.  I'm guessing we could have improved the synergy by messing with those levels a bit.  I would spend time doing this with my own set, but my CSP2+ has some transformer hum that's going to necessitate a trip back to the service bench at Decware.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  When I was at Decware I asked Steve about pairing the CSP2+ and the Taboo with Headphones. Definitely some tweeking needed with the 2 volume controls and the output pots...Between different HP's, those controls, Tube rolling and Lucid mode 1 & 2 you could spend months finding your own private HP nirvana....


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

longbow, any comment on the mini TORII ability to drive the HE-6 well and with authority? And its synergy with the LCD-2.2?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> For what it's worth, I preferred the HD800 straight out of the CSP2+ to the CSP2+/Taboo combination, but I didn't spend much time with it.  We were pairing Nick's CSP2+ with my Taboo mk2 at our little mini-meet, and we didn't fool around much with the input/output level pots.  I'm guessing we could have improved the synergy by messing with those levels a bit.  I would spend time doing this with my own set, but my CSP2+ has some transformer hum that's going to necessitate a trip back to the service bench at Decware.


 
   
  Seconded. Results were rather "wooly" out of the CSP+Taboo MKII combo. Could it have been improved with tube swaps, input/output level tweaking, etc? Most likely. But the CSP+ alone with HD800 was very nice as-is. Nice enough that I don't feel motivated to go down that exploratory road of tweaking. If I wanted to upgrade beyond the CSP+ I'd instead consider jumping to a Liquid Glass, Zana Deux, Balancing Act, or Manley... but we're talking 2x-5x $$$$ for incremental gains at that point.
   
  Tube set: RCA 5Y3GT (cheap), 6n1P-EV driver tubes (cheap), Mullard E88CC input tube (premium, but not unobtanium) + Concero DAC (relatively cheap). So far, this is the most optimal price/performance tubed rig for the HD800 I've yet heard. No glaring sonic deficiencies, no regrets, and gosh darn it... it looks really sweet too. 
   
  (but the hobby never truly ends... muah hah hah)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> longbow, any comment on the mini TORII ability to drive the HE-6 well and with authority? And its synergy with the LCD-2.2?


 
  I have never heard the Mini-Torii or the Torii (Someday...). Not enough time when I was at Decware. One interesting comment Steve did make was that the process of creating the Taboo MK III helped him correct the hiss that was heard in the earlier Taboo and Mini Torii when they added the headphone jack. Steve said they can apply what they have learned to the other amps now and make the silent for HP use particularly with low impedance HP's.
   
  I have no idea how this might apply if you were using speaker taps for the HE-6. It would be fun to try.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.
> 
> dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.


 
   
  Hopefully Frank will chime in on this but that my recollection from his comments.  He has owned all 3 units so he would know best.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

Yea, I definately want to hear from Frank. Thanks everybody for the replies so far. 

If I used the CSP2+ headphone jack for the HD800, while using the Taboo for the LCD-2 and speakers, would the tube combinations be problematic? Is it even possible/safe to do this? I am not familiar with stand alone pre-amps.


----------



## Argo Duck

Jazzerdave and Lloyd, I produced this same equation in the original Taboo thread, and was quite rightly chided by Skylab for ignoring (or rather not knowing) that power transfer is different with transformers.
   
  Like the MiniTorii, the Taboo is transformer coupled, with an impedance around 6 ohms.
   
  Chris J - an EE who specializes in power conversion - did the calculation for me (I didn't ask for the math sorry). The figure for the Taboo II is slightly over 2W into 50 ohms. It sounds it too - as far as one can judge this without measuring - when I compare it to other amps with various power ratings.
   
  Steve Deckert did something that lowered the Taboo III's 8-ohm output to 4.6W from the 6W available with the II, and also noted more power is available at 8 than 4 ohms.
  I speculated he may have altered the power transfer to favor higher Z loads such as the LCDs, but I'm not sure this is supported by comments Steve since made separately either to Eric or Frank.
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Power out put should be about 736mW into 50Ω.  Here's the equation:
> 
> P = V^2/R


----------



## Argo Duck

Just adding my 2c (or less!) to comment so far...
   
  The Decware site describes the CSP2+ as suited to dynamic phones in general, whereas the Taboo is - even more so now - meant for current-hungry phones such as orthos.
   
  That said, way back in Frank's review of the original hp-enabled Taboo, at least one head-fier (Fang) preferred the Beyer T1 with the Taboo rather than the CSP2. Moreover, it appears Frank considers the HD800 a seriously good match with the review Taboo. So much so, he has sold his CSP2. I'm intrigued!
   
  To add a small piece of personal experience, I've been surprised how good both my T1 and Grado RS1 sound with the Taboo. I still prefer the CSP2, but definitely miss what lucid mode does for both these phones.
  And to be clear, I've never heard the HD800.
   
   
  BeAsT, as well I think you asked in effect about having everything plugged in at the same time? I've had no problem with the T1s plugged to the CSP2+, the latter driving at the same time my Taboo (one and only one of LCD2 or speakers, as I have a speaker/hp switch) and a sub.
   
Does the CSP2+ add to the Taboo? With speakers, definitely - more weight and body. With headphones reports differ. I personally prefer my Taboo/LCD2 without the CSP2, but believe I'm in the minority.
   
_Bear in mind previous Taboos had low sensitivity/gain._ A preamp was recommended to boost input to around 3-4V.
  Steve has 'fixed' this with the latest Taboo by raising the gain, making it a direct fit with most (2V or more) DACs.
   
  Yet again, I have little doubt the CSP2 is a particularly good match with the Taboo (all Decware power amps?), even perhaps the new one. I casually tried several preamps with my Taboo II before I got the CSP2+. None - including the very transparent and detailed tube pre I use in my main speaker rig -  was a good match.
   
  Finally, you asked about problems with tube combinations if you use the CSP2 and Taboo/Mini together. Absolutely there is a down-stream effect of tube-choices in the preamp. Listening to my CSP2 when I first got it with stock tubes and the T1 was a revelation, but these tubes spoilt a very nice level of transparency and immediacy I had achieved with the Taboo. Limited tube-rolling fixed this to a large degree, but made me less happy with the T1. That's tube-rolling!
   
  These comments refer to impact on sound. Electrically, there is nothing to worry about assuming normal practice (volume down on both units at switch on etc).


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> Hey guys, I have really been enjoying reading over these Decware threads on Head-Fi. Seems like a really great company, I really like what I see from them. I am currently trying to plan out my next few purchases, looking for some advice/opinions.
> 
> I eventually want to end up with a 2 headphone system (already have LCD-2.2) and a pair of monitors. I live in a small space, so I am looking for a single amp to meet all my needs. Currently looking at the Taboo MKIII and the Mini TORII as possible candidates.
> 
> ...


 
  I just got home so let me read through the 22 post and I ail answer all the questions.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Does anyone know how many watts are put out at 50 ohms?
> 
> I know the website says 4.6 watts at 8 ohms x2.


 
  Steve told me the MK 111 is putting  1W into50 ohms


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Hopefully Frank will chime in on this but that my recollection from his comments.  He has owned all 3 units so he would know best.


 
  The CSP2 will work as a preamp and you can still use the headphone jack while it is doing that. The CSP2 is excellent with the T1 and HD800on it own. It  all SET while the Taboo is a pentode amplifier. The which will be better will be subjective. I loved the CSP2 as a preamp driving the Taboo. When I had the two piece unit the first time I used the T1 and the hD800 on both sides. The CSP2 is more airy and had a different open sound while the Taboo is more authoritative with the HD800 on its own. Both are excellent. The CSP2 adds more dynamic to the mix but I also like the Taboo on its own as well. If you plan on  using speakers as well you would want to use both the CSp2 and the Taboo together.  I will start writing the review middle of next week and have it done by 4/15 or sooner and that will answer quite a few more questions as well.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> Yea, I definately want to hear from Frank. Thanks everybody for the replies so far.
> 
> If I used the CSP2+ headphone jack for the HD800, while using the Taboo for the LCD-2 and speakers, would the tube combinations be problematic? Is it even possible/safe to do this? I am not familiar with stand alone pre-amps.


 
  Tube compliments are very easy. The csp2 uses three 6922 types and the same rectifier as the Taboo. You can use the same type tube or different tubes and mix and match to get the sound you prefer best. The stock tubes will sound excellent in the preamp and the Taboo also. My review will deal with how the Taboo MK111 sounds with the stock tube and also with some EL84  instead of the SV83 which is an excellent tube and Steve Deckert preferred power tube for the Taboo MK111. The great thing about decware amps all of these tubes are readily available and also most are current production tubes as well.  When I had the combo with the MK111 and csp2 I used the same rectifiers and 6922  used in the csp2 were all the same but you can use two 6922 in the power section of the csp2 and put a different one in the driver section and there are endless combinations. Most important is to find a sound you like beast and live with it for  some time to get to know the tube your hearing before swapping and I usually find my favorite combos and leave it in for months before I swap them out again.


----------



## Landmantx

AiDee, I wish I had that switch. I guess I will just have to unplag my imaginary speakers when I plug in my imaginary headphones.


----------



## Landmantx

Of course, where does my imaginary DAC fit into the equation. I am struggling to figure the best way to configure everything. I want to still have my Home Theater capabilities, but the Onkyo 702 receiver is not my desired choice ATM to pair with the Pendragons for music (though I won't know for sure until I compare) I really want to tie this all together with my CSP and Taboo, but I am confused. The DAC is only stereo, so the Apple TV will then be only used for music duty, which will be ok by me. 

So, From iMac to AppleTV via wireless stream to DAC via optical out (monoprice cable) from AppleTV to CSP (headphone out to future Senny800) via Decware interconnect out to Taboo (Headphone LCD 2 or 3 & Mad Dog) via Decware interconnect to Tekton Pendragon via 12 guage speaker wire from Monoprice. 

That is my current endgame ATM. But I have to figure out how to not disrupt my 7.1 home theater configuration.I wish there were two inputs on the Pendragons, that might make it a smidge easier to figure out. 

To make it even more complicated I just bought 2 outdoor speakers to listen to on the patio, and I need to have it hooked up to the appleTV so I can control what music plays via my iPad on the patio. Maybe I will just plug them into the Taboo outs when I am outdoors. 

What a pain. Now I know why I am stuck.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> To add a small piece of personal experience, I've been surprised how good both my T1 and Grado RS1 sound with the Taboo. I still prefer the CSP2, but definitely miss what lucid mode does for both these phones.


 
   
  Agreed on the Grado + Taboo synergy. I only briefly owned the Taboo MKII but wow did it make my Grado SR-225i's pop w/lucid mode. Great pairing!


----------



## Argo Duck

Jazzerdave and Lloyd - well, 1 watt Steve told Frank... You guys were closer than me!

Landmantx - I see your problem!! Good luck. Maybe over in the decware forum someone has an idea?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Of course, where does my imaginary DAC fit into the equation. I am struggling to figure the best way to configure everything. I want to still have my Home Theater capabilities, but the Onkyo 702 receiver is not my desired choice ATM to pair with the Pendragons for music (though I won't know for sure until I compare) I really want to tie this all together with my CSP and Taboo, but I am confused. The DAC is only stereo, so the Apple TV will then be only used for music duty, which will be ok by me.
> 
> So, From iMac to AppleTV via wireless stream to DAC via optical out (monoprice cable) from AppleTV to CSP (headphone out to future Senny800) via Decware interconnect out to Taboo (Headphone LCD 2 or 3 & Mad Dog) via Decware interconnect to Tekton Pendragon via 12 guage speaker wire from Monoprice.
> 
> ...


 
  I suggest you rethink your cable solution. Monoprice interconnects and speaker cable will bottleneck your music. I used their interconnect and lost all the openness of the system and replaced them rathe quickly. I would go to audiogon and check out some used cables for the system.  It is important to get better cables to realize what your system will be able to do. Kimber and  Audioquest have good entry level cable in thir lineup. Audio Advisor is also another good place to purchase cables. In my experience cables do make a big difference.


----------



## mwindham08

What are your thoughts on usb cables?
   
  I have some audioquest RCA cables that I will use to connect my dac to the taboo
  but just a regular usb cable for PC to DAC hookup.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> What are your thoughts on usb cables?
> 
> I have some audioquest RCA cables that I will use to connect my dac to the taboo
> but just a regular usb cable for PC to DAC hookup.


 
  I dont use USB cables from even my old day using separate dac's with coaxial digital cables the cables made a difference so I would also use a better USB cable and actually will need one shortly for another review I will be doing so I need to seek some quality USB cable out.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am using an Audioquest Cinnamon usb cable. They have an entry level one called the Forest that is pretty inexpensive.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am using an Audioquest Cinnamon usb cable. They have an entry level one called the Forest that is pretty inexpensive.


 
  Thanks Eric. How do you like the Cinnamon the post on amazon are not favorable and I seen the Forrest music direct is selling inexpensively. I have one uSB cable in house real inexpensive will see what that does and get a couple of better cables. i am a couple week away from getting that product but I do have a few  reives lined up thta will require a USB cable,


----------



## mwindham08

I've been looking at the cinnamon as well. Mainly just because it is red like my audioquest rca cables! 

Of course anything is gonna be better than what I am using currently.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can't speak for anyone else, but the cinnamon does the job for me.....The Forest worked fine too for a road cable.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

Great responses guys. I know longbow spent some time with the DM945s and enjoyed them. Anyone else have any experience with them? 
   
  I think the most I will be able to swing for speakers would be $1000-1500. Looking at monitors/bookshelves (I live in a small space).
   
  Great thread here, really enjoying the discussion.


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> Great responses guys. I know longbow spent some time with the DM945s and enjoyed them. Anyone else have any experience with them?
> 
> I think the most I will be able to swing for speakers would be $1000-1500. Looking at monitors/bookshelves (I live in a small space).
> 
> Great thread here, really enjoying the discussion.


 
   
  I have to plug the Blumenstein Orcas. Running them from a Decware amp now (and awaiting my Taboo). They sound awesome.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





monelly said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How is the low end on the Orca's? That is a small single driver.


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> How is the low end on the Orca's? That is a small single driver.


 
  It's not exactly knocking my fillings loose, but it's actually a bit better than I expected. I'm using them in a near field setup, so I don't have a lot of room to move them forward or backwards, but even a few extra inches out from the wall really changes the sound. Mine are new, and I'm still waiting on stands, but even "as is" they sound positively holographic with the Decware amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

There's a matching sub which doubles as a stand, yes?

Looking forward to more impressions on their sound as you get more time with them MoNelly


----------



## V-Duh

Wow, six orders dropped off the list today.  It's Zenhead and Taboo-land on the first page now.  Looks like I'll be needing to pay for the rest of my Taboo soon.  The IRS can wait for theirs...


----------



## bearFNF

I will not look, I will not look, i will not look...oh crap i just looked...with that I moved to page 3...


----------



## WNBC

Decware does deposit on their amps?  I always thought it was 100% payment due at placement of order.
   
  Quote:  





> Looks like I'll be needing to pay for the rest of my Taboo soon.  The IRS can wait for theirs...


----------



## mwindham08

If you pay via debit/credit card its 100 dollar down payment. They charge you the rest when it ships.
   
  If you pay through paypal they charge the whole amount immediately I believe.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  That system could be useful if somebody decides to jump out of line then a lucky person can jump in to pay the remaining amount due 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  
   
   
  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> If you pay via debit/credit card its 100 dollar down payment. They charge you the rest when it ships.
> 
> If you pay through paypal they charge the whole amount immediately I believe.


----------



## mwindham08

Hey guys I am ordering a audio-gd 7.32 to go with the taboo.
I've asked for volume control to be added to my unit.

They are saying the volume output is 2.5 volts but it can be raised or lowered .
They asked what the gain of my amp was.
Is that the input voltage on the taboo? Decware site says 2.1 volts.

Assuming that is correct should I have the volume output lowered to 2.1
or will being a little over be alright?

Sorry if this is way off topic I just knew you guys would probably know.


----------



## Argo Duck

A difference like 2.5 versus 2.1 is certainly ok. My four dacs range from 2.0 rms (Bifrost, Bushmaster) to 3.0 rms (Eastern Electric MiniMax in tube-mode; 2.5 without).

In dB terms these are small differences compared to the changes you will make constantly with the volume control.

In exchange for this information, I expect a detailed and comprehensive report of the Ag 7.32 with your new Taboo


----------



## mwindham08

Hopefully I will be able to do that relatively soon. There is only 9 Taboos ahead of me.
  If they get some more wood bases in I should be on page 2.
   
  Not sure how useful my impressions will be, I will be going from an Asus Essence One to the nfb-7.32.
  Probably just a slight improvement right? ; )


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Will be a nice rig - you will probably be ecstatic! 

All impressions are useful - the more one can mention about what one hears, the better for others thinking of similar gear...


----------



## MoNelly

Whoohooo, parts pulled!


----------



## Landmantx

Woohoo! Next in line. At least I am finally on page one.


----------



## mwindham08

OMG its not fair!!!!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





monelly said:


> Whoohooo, parts pulled!


 
  Congrats...
  Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Woohoo! Next in line. At least I am finally on page one.


 
  SWEET!!!! all down hill from there...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> OMG its not fair!!!!


 
  Sigh...I'm still on the bottom of page three..


----------



## Frank I

I am shooting to have the review done by 4/15. I will let everyone know when its done. I am  anxious to get it completed.


----------



## jazzerdave

So I've been using my Taboo mk2 a lot more lately as I'm trying to get some extra burn in on the rectifiers I'll be contributing to the slowly progressing rectifier tour that Nick and I are trying to organize. I've just been using my Mad Dogs, but it's been really fun. It's got me really excited to hear Matt's (LandmanTX) Mk3 when it arrives. I've got to hear this extra lucid mode.


----------



## Landmantx

You bet Dave!!! We are going to have some fun with this thing. I loved those Mad Dogs for the money. I am thinking of getting a pair. It looks like I am only a few weeks out now from lucid mode!


----------



## Poladise

Just received a nice parcel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . Thought I'd got away with it, but I had to pay an extra £275 for him to leave it with me. Ouch lol


----------



## Landmantx

Yikes!!!! In Texas, we would probably revolt.


----------



## Landmantx

Oh Crap!!!! Parts Pulled!!!! I need to get serious.


----------



## Frank I

Check out the Decware site for the power rating on the MK 111 for some reason I could paste them here


----------



## Frank I

For some reason the chart for the power rating are not coming up. The amp is putting put 1.7W into 50 Ohms and there is detailed measurements for the wattage but its plent powerful for sure. 1.6W into 32 ohms and 1.7 into 50,300,600 ohms/ . The charts are available on the Decware site.


----------



## TEH725

I have experience with the DM945s, but with the SE34i.3.  Great value in a speaker in my opinion.  They image very well and go low enough for me, but I have heard others run them with a sub.  My sub is cheap so I run without and don't miss it all that much.  Nice defined bass.  I also like the sound of the ribbon tweeter.   I use them in a relatively small room and get more than adequate volume with the 6 watts the SE34 puts out.
   
  Another Decware speaker offering (actually made by Turning Point Audio and distributed by Decware) is the Trapezium desktop speaker.  I have not personally heard them, but they are supposed to mate well with Decware amps and put out a good amount of volume (and bass) in a nearfield setup.


----------



## Landmantx

DaciT ordered! It has the same Sabre 9023 chip as Nick's Resonnessence Concero that I was able to enjoy at the Dallas mMeet. It also has a optical input which is what I was needing. Hopefully, It will be a good pairing with the MKIII.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> DaciT ordered! It has the same Sabre 9023 chip as Nick's Resonnessence Concero that I was able to enjoy at the Dallas mMeet. It also has a optical input which is what I was needing. Hopefully, It will be a good pairing with the MKIII.


 
  matt what headphones are you getting or do you have to use with the csp2 tomorrow when it comes.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Oh Crap!!!! Parts Pulled!!!! I need to get serious.


 
  It's Happy Crap!  I'm next in line.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Production at Decware was languishing a bit for a month until the week of 18-Mar and then stuff's been flying out the door since.
   
  All the Taboos on hold have cherries so we may not have to wait additional time for our walnuts.
   
[There may be a joke in there somewhere...]


----------



## Frank I

HEADPHONE IMPEDANCE POWER
 OUTPUT 4 ohms 500 mw 8 ohms 1000 mw 16 ohms 1200 mw 24 ohms 1500 mw 32 ohms 1600 mw 50 ohms 1700 mw 75 ohms 1700 mw 100 ohms 1700 mw 150 ohms 1700 mw 250 ohms 1700 mw 300 ohms 1700 mw 600 ohms 1700 mw  
  These are the power ratings for the MK111 for anyone that is interested.


----------



## Landmantx

Ahh Frank, I hate to admit that I am still undeclared. I will play with it with my *cough* beats *cough* until the decision on the next step is made. It is quite sad, but like many on here, the failures of the mainline products push you into this hobby. I am still struggling with which cans to buy as I will not probably be able to get both for some time, as I want to get the Pendragons on order soon. I will probably have to choose between the LCD2 and the Senny800.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Ahh Frank, I hate to admit that I am still undeclared. I will play with it with my *cough* beats *cough* until the decision on the next step is made. It is quite sad, but like many on here, the failures of the mainline products push you into this hobby. I am still struggling with which cans to buy as I will not probably be able to get both for some time, as I want to get the Pendragons on order soon. I will probably have to choose between the LCD2 and the Senny800.


 
   
  If all else fails, I can just lend you my HD650's while you get settled with all of it.  They're not really getting any use.


----------



## Landmantx

Thanks Dave! I may have to take you up on that offer. 

Back on subject, I was noticing in the new owner's manual that the output goes down when using Lucid Mode 2 with speakers? Does it effect the output when you are using Headphones from the 1.7 watts?


----------



## Landmantx

Here is the quote from the owner's manual. 

Since the original lucid mode was designed for speakers, there are no issues using it with speakers. New Lucid mode, however, was designed for 50 ohm planar headphones as a super imaging enhancement, and while it can be used with speakers, the maximum power of the amplifier into speakers is reduced when New Lucid mode is engaged. Basically if you’re planning on using New Lucid mode with speakers you’ll have to restrict yourself to modest volume levels. Turning New Lucid mode OFF restores full power to the loudspeakers.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





frank i said:


> HEADPHONE IMPEDANCE POWER
> OUTPUT 4 ohms 500 mw 8 ohms 1000 mw 16 ohms 1200 mw 24 ohms 1500 mw 32 ohms 1600 mw 50 ohms 1700 mw 75 ohms 1700 mw 100 ohms 1700 mw 150 ohms 1700 mw 250 ohms 1700 mw 300 ohms 1700 mw 600 ohms 1700 mw
> These are the power ratings for the MK111 for anyone that is interested.


 
  That was me asking about the power ratings.
  Not sure how I missed this. 
  Thanks Frank.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Ahh Frank, I hate to admit that I am still undeclared. I will play with it with my *cough* beats *cough* until the decision on the next step is made. It is quite sad, but like many on here, the failures of the mainline products push you into this hobby. I am still struggling with which cans to buy as I will not probably be able to get both for some time, as I want to get the Pendragons on order soon. I will probably have to choose between the LCD2 and the Senny800.


 
  LCD-2, LCD-2!!
   
  I actually can't comment on the 800, but I have the Beyer T1 which is probably closer to that sound signature
  and I prefer the Audezes more. Of course it's all just personal preference.


----------



## Landmantx

Its a tough decision. Especially now that I added the CSP to the equation. I wish the Audeze's were a bit more comfortable for long listening sessions. The HD800 seemed to respond very dramatically to changes in tubes and configurations, which is both frightening and captivating.


----------



## mwindham08

There was definitely an adjustment going from the T1's to LCD2's in comfort and sound.
  The lcd2's weight and fit do not bother me anymore but they were the only headphones I used for about a month straight.
   
  When I had the WA2/T1 I could always notice a difference in tubes.
 I hope with the Taboo/LCD'2s I will have the same experience. 
   
  Can anyone comment on good tube selections with the taboo?
  Any combos that sounded particularly good with the LCD2's?
   
  I still have some amperex orange globe 6DJ8's I can use
  but I think that is the only ones I have that will work with the Taboo.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> There was definitely an adjustment going from the T1's to LCD2's in comfort and sound.
> The lcd2's weight and fit do not bother me anymore but they were the only headphones I used for about a month straight.
> 
> When I had the WA2/T1 I could always notice a difference in tubes.
> ...


 
  I am currently using  the Amerex O getter EL84 and a Phillips 5R4Y rectifier with a siemen EC88 but Genelex 6922. Sovetk 6922 and the Bugle Boys and orange globes all sound fantastic.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> LCD-2, LCD-2!!
> 
> I actually can't comment on the 800, but I have the Beyer T1 which is probably closer to that sound signature
> and I prefer the Audezes more. Of course it's all just personal preference.


 
  All three headphones are excellent. The Taboo MK111 loves them all.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





frank i said:


> All three headphones are excellent. The Taboo MK111 loves them all.


 
  The Decware site lists the 5U4,5Y3GT,5AR4,274B as potential rectifier tube choices.
  Is the 5R4Y a re-brand of one of these tubes?
   
  EDIT: Nevermind I figured it out


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> The Decware site lists the 5U4,5Y3GT,5AR4,274B as potential rectifier tube choices.
> Is the 5R4Y a re-brand of one of these tubes?
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind I figured it out


 
  It is a viable substitute. Its can used in the 5U4 applications and its a super tube IMO. Steve Deckert is using it in the Taboo also. i was on the phone with him the other day discussing some things I needed to know for the review.


----------



## mwindham08

Closest thing I can find is a 5R4GY. I haven't been looking that long though.
  Do you remember where you got them?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Closest thing I can find is a 5R4GY. I haven't been looking that long though.
> Do you remember where you got them?


 
  Upscale audio in California has them brand new for 55.00 I just ordered two more as they will be hard to find. The tube is that good and I suggest buying a couple. They are well worth it and with two the shipping is free. They are online ordering as well and Kevin Deal is the tube expert in high end and he said its the best rectifier he has ever heard and he sell lots of rectifiers. They were 40.00 a month ago but supply is dwindling down so the price is going up.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Upscale audio in California has them brand new for 55.00 I just ordered two more as they will be hard to find. The tube is that good and I suggest buying a couple. They are well worth it and with two the shipping is free. They are online ordering as well and Kevin Deal is the tube expert in high end and he said its the best rectifier he has ever heard and he sell lots of rectifiers. They were 40.00 a month ago but supply is dwindling down so the price is going up.


 
   
  Yeah, I stocked up when they were relatively cheap.  Upscale is a great source for tubes.  While I usually opt to fish for local stocks and deals on eBay, I'd probably be saving a significant amount of money if I just ordered from Kevin Deal every time (fewer dead tubes and less buying random tubes).


----------



## mwindham08

I ordered one and I also have a Sophia 274b.

Im gonna have to resist trying them as soon as the taboo comes in.


----------



## MoNelly

My Taboo is already in Testing QC. They're really streamlining things now!


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I ordered one and I also have a Sophia 274b.
> 
> Im gonna have to resist trying them as soon as the taboo comes in.


 
   
  Do you have the mesh plate or the rigid plate version of the Sophia?  I believe the mesh plate Sophia falls outside of the requirements for most of Steve's amps.
   
  On the phone I basically got this breakdown for the CSP2+ and Taboo mk2:
  Safe:

 EML 5U4G (mesh plate)
 Sophia Princess 274B (rigid plate)
  Not recommended:

 EML 274B (mesh)
 Sophia Princess 274B (mesh)


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Do you have the mesh plate or the rigid plate version of the Sophia?  I believe the mesh plate Sophia falls outside of the requirements for most of Steve's amps.
> 
> On the phone I basically got this breakdown for the CSP2+ and Taboo mk2:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've always wanted to try those. However, according to the Decware forums, the only way to facilitate it would be to swap caps which would change the sonic signature of the amp (and thus require further adjustments to re-voice it). Essentially it would become a different amp.
   
  No biggie. The EML 5U4G mesh is lovely & it's nice to be able to swap so many different types as-is. My alternative for 274B mesh would be jumping into a 2A3/300b/45/PX4 type amp like the Balancing Act. Unless of course Decware releases one...


----------



## Landmantx

I am on the Bench!


----------



## mwindham08

Regrettably it is a mesh plate. 
Man that sucks.


----------



## V-Duh

Hey all,
  I'd like to have some tubes on hand to compare when I recieve my Taboo.  I will try the Phillips 5R4GYS rectifier.  Would the Philips or Tungsram 6BQ5/EL84 offered by Upscale have any promise?  Any suggestions for something to try for the input tube?  There seem to be a lot of options in that family.
  Thanks for the help


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





v-duh said:


> Hey all,
> I'd like to have some tubes on hand to compare when I recieve my Taboo.  I will try the Phillips 5R4GYS rectifier.  Would the Philips or Tungsram 6BQ5/EL84 offered by Upscale have any promise?  Any suggestions for something to try for the input tube?  There seem to be a lot of options in that family.
> Thanks for the help


 
  Both are tubes of excellent reputation. Also try Tubemaze for good used EKL84 tell Nikolay I recommended you I paid 75.00 for Amperex O getter and they are very nice and quiet strong tubes.


----------



## Frank I

Guys for anyone interested I have my first article published on Dagogo.com  and joined the staff for reviews as well there in addition to my  contributions here.  The Taboo review will appear there also and my Bio and commentary are now up for anyone interested.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





monelly said:


> My Taboo is already in Testing QC. They're really streamlining things now!


 
   
  That, or someone is having a lot of fun updating orders


----------



## Landmantx

estreeter said:


> That, or someone is having a lot of fun updating orders




They just updated my order to Cherry! I got Frank's CSP in yesterday and fell in love with the Cherry base. 

So, now I am officially on the list of people delayed and waiting for a base. Sadly, the woodworker suffered a heart attack and is recovering. I pray he gets better very soon, as he is an incredible craftsman. I will wait for the Cherry base because I want the two amps to look good together. 

Seeing this amp makes me wish I could swing their 5,000 speakers, though 

Incredible build quality! This stuff is not just electronics, it is art. Hand created by real people. I feel fortunate to be in a position to be able to own such a beautifully crafted amp. 

I am counting the days....


----------



## Frank I

Matt glad your enjoying the CSP2 and I feel its in good hands and it will become your go to amp for headphones. The two together will keep you satisfied for a very long time.


----------



## Landmantx

Let's put it this way... I have absolutely no intention of ever selling either of them! That said, I am already dreaming of a Tori to power the Pendragons in the future! Never ending spiral. I blame all of you..... And I give you all the credit! This hobby has been quite an adventure already, and I am just getting started.


----------



## Landmantx

Great article on dagogo by the way Frank. Congrats on that opportunity. I am sure you will be a real asset to them.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Great article on dagogo by the way Frank. Congrats on that opportunity. I am sure you will be a real asset to them.


 
  I am glad you enjoyed the article and thanks for the kind words


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes indeed, nice outline of the new trends in hi fi. Congrats on becoming a dagogo reviewer Frank. Well deserved.

And may it bring you (and us) many interesting opportunities and perspectives!

(would clink glasses at this point but hard to do on an iPad in mobile mode).


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Yes indeed, nice outline of the new trends in hi fi. Congrats on becoming a dagogo reviewer Frank. Well deserved.
> 
> And may it bring you (and us) many interesting opportunities and perspectives!
> 
> (would clink glasses at this point but hard to do on an iPad in mobile mode).


 
  Thanks Aidee I really appreciate it and still look foward to my contributions here as well. It is an exciting time to be in the hobby.


----------



## longbowbbs

Testing QC....Tick Tick......


----------



## ANDEROAN

wondering if I can get some ?s answered, I am in line for the MKIII! my first venture into a home rig, which I thought I'd never do it, but I got some full sized headgear (HE400 & 500, and HD600 & 650s) and want to hear how it can sound out of something nice, other then thru my portable grear, which really sounds awesome, and then I came across Erics visit to Decware, I was sunk from there, well that and there introductory offer,
   
  I will be using my iPod thru my CLAS or HP-P1 as a source, I guess I don't need a 3.5 input jack as the 3.5 to RCAs sould do just fine?
   
  I asked about getting one 3 and one 4 pin XLR as outputs? as I don't have any balanced cables atm. I thought it would be nice to have the flexaability with one of each? or will adapters work nicely, get 2 4 pins, and and adapters to 3 pin XLRs? are there any advantages to having one pin over the other? my first step into balanced cables, and I don't really know a damned thing? I feel as if I am jumping in over my head, is the Taboo a good first step for a newbie? oh well too late Steve took my down payment, lol,
   
  and maybe a 3.5 output with lower gain for IEMs? which will more then likely prove futile? as the gain should be fine for IEMs as is? and overkill with the MKIII, will more then likely just fall in love with the HEs? 
   
  any suggestions as for trying out tubes, I read on some earlier in the thred, still have alot more to read up on though, ggrrrr, this is going to be fun and expensive? I would like to get some ahead of time to try out? and I don't know a damned thing about tubes euther? there where some listed up on Decwares site, yep I am over my head, luckily I can hold my breath, lol,
   
  thanks!


----------



## mwindham08

My very simplistic understanding is that essentially dual 3 pin xlr's are the same as a single 4pin.
   
  With 2 4pin XLR connections you can hook up 2 balanced headphones, with dual 3 pin XLR's you could only hook up a single headphone.
   
  So basically you would need two 3 pin xlr's to hook up your headphones, one for each speaker.


----------



## longbowbbs

Anderoan,
   
  Sorry for the undo influence....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It will be my first Balanced amp as well, so I am shopping some Balanced cables for my HD800's....Choices.....
   
  You will have plenty of power for the HifiMan HP's That should be a nice pairing.
   
  Short word on tubes is Decware sounds great with inexpensive and readily available tubes. You can get pricey NOS (New Old Stock) ones but it is not necessary to enjoy the Taboo.
   
  Welcome to it...


----------



## ANDEROAN

ok thanks, that goes along with my understanding, so with the 3 pin XLRs that they offer as stock, both of them have to be used for one headphone? so it looks like I will stay with the 4 pins, and get a good 3 pin adaptor, swee, this stuff is getting pretty easy, lol, yea right,


----------



## ANDEROAN

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Anderoan,
> 
> Sorry for the undo influence....
> 
> ...


 
  LOL, yes you owe me or I owe you, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I will know in a few weeks, 
   
  but that was a great write up on your vist to Decware, very informative, started to answer some of my newbie ?s, I am on page 4 which is good, cuz I have alot to learn and that will give me some time to do so!


----------



## mwindham08

If you get your headphones recabled to a 4 pin XLR you shouldn't need an adapter at all.


----------



## ANDEROAN

oh yes that's true, and an easy fix also, but at this point I have no balanced cables, I can't imagine there being any didference between the 3 or 4 pin XLRs? so any of them that I will be getting will be to order,


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





anderoan said:


> wondering if I can get some ?s answered, I am in line for the MKIII! my first venture into a home rig, which I thought I'd never do it, but I got some full sized headgear (HE400 & 500, and HD600 & 650s) and want to hear how it can sound out of something nice, other then thru my portable grear, which really sounds awesome, and then I came across Erics visit to Decware, I was sunk from there, well that and there introductory offer,
> 
> I will be using my iPod thru my CLAS or HP-P1 as a source, I guess I don't need a 3.5 input jack as the 3.5 to RCAs sould do just fine?
> 
> ...


 
  Based on your headphones the Taboo MK111 will be perfect. My review is in the process of being completed and should be up shortly but I can say this for both low impedance and high impedance headphones this amplifier is a terrific solution. I prefer the headphones using the 4 pin balanced inputs which I will cover in the review in detail as well as using it single ended which I have been doing as well.


----------



## ANDEROAN

Hey Frank,  thanks for the input, I know I am going down the right path, with my headphones, and now the MKIII, thanks to Eric, his tour/reviw couldn't have come at a better time, and you've also been a big help aswell Frank, so I will look forward to reading your full reviewFrank, well I am slowly getting there because alot of what still gets said seems like greek to me, lol, thanks all!


----------



## Landmantx

Join the newbie swimming uphill club! I had been in love with the Decware product since I first fIrst found it on the forum. Skylab, Frank, AiDee, JazzerDave, Longbow, I blame them all! At least you have some good headphones to play with! I am still undeclared. 

Current plan... DACiT comes in on Tuesday. Order the new Mad Dog Alpha 4-pin balanced and HD800 on the 15th when I get paid and then eat ramen noodles until I pay all this gear off!

Matt


----------



## Landmantx

Longbow, how will you use your hd800 with your csp once you go balanced? An adapter? I havent considered a balanced cable for the HD800 yet due to the SET out on CSP???


----------



## jazzerdave

landmantx said:


> Longbow, how will you use your hd800 with your csp once you go balanced? An adapter? I havent considered a balanced cable for the HD800 yet due to the SET out on CSP???




If you have a headphone terminated in 4-pin XLR you can always use an adapter to use it with a single-ended amp. If you have a headphone wired for SE, and use an aadapter to go from 1/4" to a balanced connection, you'll blow the amp or at the very least trip the protection circuitry.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yep....4 Pin to SE adapter at the end of the cable....Now I have to decide which cable.....


----------



## ANDEROAN

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Join the newbie swimming uphill club! I had been in love with the Decware product since I first fIrst found it on the forum. Skylab, Frank, AiDee, JazzerDave, Longbow, I blame them all! At least you have some good headphones to play with! I am still undeclared.
> 
> Current plan... DACiT comes in on Tuesday. Order the new Mad Dog Alpha 4-pin balanced and HD800 on the 15th when I get paid and then eat ramen noodles until I pay all this gear off!
> 
> Matt


 
  thanks Matt/aka ramen man, lol, yes welcome to a world of poverty but great audio, yea? lol, I think? and uphill for a while yes, but you have a great head start, Franks CSP2 will be a great asset, your lucky I found this thread a few days to late, or the bidding war would have gotten one of us onto a ketchup soup diet, mmm mmm yuck, lol,


----------



## Landmantx

anderoan said:


> thanks Matt/aka ramen man, lol, yes welcome to a world of poverty but great audio, yea? lol, I think? and uphill for a while yes, but you have a great head start, Franks CSP2 will be a great asset, your lucky I found this thread a few days to late, or the bidding war would have gotten one of us onto a ketchup soup diet, mmm mmm yuck, lol,




Bring it on! I don't think anyone can out-cheap me! I may have to go to mowing the back yard grass by teeth if I keep going in this hobby!

If you hear me making barnyard animal sounds--- slap me!

I hope this setup I am envisioning comes together as well as I am daydreaming that it will go.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info Frank!  Any suggestions for the 6922/6DJ8/6N1P family?


----------



## mwindham08

Amperex 6DJ8 orange globes were my favorite with beyer T1s.

Phillips 6922 gold pins were pretty good as well. 

I briefly had some siemens 7308s but I didn't feel they were worth the high price Imo.


----------



## longbowbbs

Shipping Dept!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





v-duh said:


> Thanks for the info Frank!  Any suggestions for the 6922/6DJ8/6N1P family?


 
  I like the Bugle Boy 6dj8,Siemans ecc888,amperex orange globes as well as the matsusuita 6922 and Mullard 2492, sylvania 6dj78 and Genelx 6922. The great thing about using the 6922 you only need one tube and they are easy to find  so you can tune the amp to satisfy your taste. I am using the Siemand in the amp  right now. All are excellent. I also have the Voshod 6n1P . I have all the driver tubes I will ever need for this amp.   I like them all too.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Amperex 6DJ8 orange globes were my favorite with beyer T1s.
> 
> Phillips 6922 gold pins were pretty good as well.
> 
> I briefly had some siemens 7308s but I didn't feel they were worth the high price Imo.


 
  Thanks!  Woo, I see some of those orange globes and the Philips gold pins can get pretty expensive.
  There's so many options in that family it can be a bit overwhelming.  I was thinking about a Philips PCC88/7DJ8 from Upscale that they say is compatible with virtually any product using 6922 or 6DJ8 and sounds good.  Does anyone see any problems with this or think its a poor option?


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, options galore!  Thanks for the help.  Maybe I need to try a few just to be safe...
   
  My limited understanding is the output tubes will have the greatest impact, followed by the input tube, and lastly the rectifier.  Is this even vaguely correct?


----------



## jazzerdave

v-duh said:


> Wow, options galore!  Thanks for the help.  Maybe I need to try a few just to be safe...
> 
> My limited understanding is the output tubes will have the greatest impact, followed by the input tube, and lastly the rectifier.  Is this even vaguely correct?




I'd say it's more like

Input > rectifier > power


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





v-duh said:


> Wow, options galore!  Thanks for the help.  Maybe I need to try a few just to be safe...
> 
> My limited understanding is the output tubes will have the greatest impact, followed by the input tube, and lastly the rectifier.  Is this even vaguely correct?


 
  The driver is very noticeable the rectifier less so but the EL84 all sound different as well. There are so many cool options for the amp..


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Shipping Dept!


 
  Keep rubbing it in...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But congrats anyway, can't wait for your impressions...and pics.


----------



## Argo Duck

What's nice about CSP2 and Taboo (only commenting on these as they're the only Decwares I've heard) - they don't need expensive tubes to sound really exceptional. It's something to note: they change the rules quite a lot and open the field right up - probably because they are (I understand) very simple circuits with excellent execution. I think this makes them highly transparent to tube changes and less fussy at the same time.

Whereas the Lyr _demanded_ expensive tubes. I was gratified by the improvement I got from Matsu 6922s over stock and some other tubes, but never was I going to buy a pair of tubes that cost more than the amp itself!!

V-Duh, get Steve Deckert's advice about the 7DJ8. It runs at a different heater voltage. Steve does tricks with voltages himself, but this...might work, might not.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> What's nice about CSP2 and Taboo (only commenting on these as they're the only Decwares I've heard) - they don't need expensive tubes to sound really exceptional. It's something to note: they change the rules quite a lot and open the field right up - probably because they are (I understand) very simple circuits with excellent execution. I think this makes them highly transparent to tube changes and less fussy at the same time.
> 
> Whereas the Lyr _demanded_ expensive tubes. I was gratified by the improvement I got from Matsu 6922s over stock and some other tubes, but never was I going to buy a pair of tubes that cost more than the amp itself!!
> 
> V-Duh, get Steve Deckert's advice about the 7DJ8. It runs at a different heater voltage. Steve does tricks with voltages himself, but this...might work, might not.


 
   
  +1 I have no desire to tube roll at all.  I'm very happy with the stock tubes.


----------



## MoNelly

My Taboo has shipped. Should arrive early next week, but work travel will prevent me from hearing it right away. Damned work, getting in the way of the important things in life like new gear.


----------



## Landmantx

I can't even imagine. Hopefully, you will have some time to veg out when you get back home. I expect a full write up with pictures!!!!!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I can't even imagine. Hopefully, you will have some time to veg out when you get back home. I expect a full write up with pictures!!!!!


 
   +1
   
  Quote:


monelly said:


> My Taboo has shipped. Should arrive early next week, but work travel will prevent me from hearing it right away. Damned work, getting in the way of the important things in life like new gear.


 
  Sweet!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





monelly said:


> My Taboo has shipped. Should arrive early next week, but work travel will prevent me from hearing it right away. Damned work, getting in the way of the important things in life like new gear.


 
  We are in the same boat. Mine arrives Thursday. I get home Friday and I have 3 consecutive weekends booked with a ton of work travel until May.....Seems I have to pay for this somehow...


----------



## mwindham08

Page 2 Finally!


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Do you have the mesh plate or the rigid plate version of the Sophia?  I believe the mesh plate Sophia falls outside of the requirements for most of Steve's amps.
> 
> On the phone I basically got this breakdown for the CSP2+ and Taboo mk2:
> Safe:
> ...


 
  Since I already had a Sophia Mesh plate does anyone have personal experience with this tube.
  I'm going to try it out regardless but I hate to waste such a great tube on an incompatible amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

The 274B is one of the default tubes for the Taboo. It'll work without a 8>4 pin adapter. Just plug the 4 pin right into the amp and tuen it on.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The 274B is one of the default tubes for the Taboo. It'll work without a 8>4 pin adapter. Just plug the 4 pin right into the amp and tuen it on.


 
   
  Many 274B's will work, but the Sophia mesh plate 274B has a maximum current capability of 90ma.  The rigid plate version is a healthy 160ma.  On the phone, Steve specifically said that the rigid plate would work but to avoid the mesh plate version.


----------



## longbowbbs

Dang! and those mesh are so gorgeous in the dark....


----------



## mwindham08

Yeah I'm pretty bummed out about it.
  That's what i get for making an impulsive buy.
   
  I agree it definitely is one of the best looking tubes I've seen though.
  I'll probably try to sell or trade it for a rigid plate sometime in the future.


----------



## Landmantx

Well, I am still waiting on the base. No big deal to me as I want it right for what I am trying to accomplish. Waiting seems to be a big part of the Decware experience. I have been reading of similar waits on Tekton speakers over at AVS, so it seems my waiting days are far from over. 

Speaking of waiting.....

I am so ready for an in-depth review of this beastie! Come on Frank! I hope to get some good news soon!


----------



## longbowbbs

Hey! look at this nice big box from High Fidelity Engineering!!!
  Too bad the weekend is already shot....Maybe I can open it this week sometime......


----------



## Landmantx

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 

Time to get sick or something!


----------



## longbowbbs

OK... I have it out of the box. I will likely have not review for a month or more given break in and real world scheduling.
   
  Gotta love the dual USAF-596's!!


----------



## Argo Duck

Eric, congrats. Yeah, it looks good!! Have fun.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Eric, congrats. Yeah, it looks good!! Have fun.


 
  Thanks AiDee!  I am going to let it cook while I go out for another event. I love the look of the twin 596's!


----------



## dminches

Eric, it looks great and I am sure it sounds great as well.  Enjoy.


----------



## longbowbbs

David, it does sound great! Starting off with Adele...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> OK... I have it out of the box. I will likely have not review for a month or more given break in and real world scheduling.
> 
> Gotta love the dual USAF-596's!!


 
  Sweet!!  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  hehe...Me too!


----------



## mwindham08

Just got the audio gd nfb 7.32 in today and man is this thing HUGE!
   
  Still not Taboo yet though.
   
  The wait is killing me now


----------



## V-Duh

Tabooed and Lucidized in Anchorage…
   
  My Taboo landed at the UPS store yesterday at lunch time.  I promptly took the afternoon off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Once I got through the 30 feet of bubble wrap and the plastic prophylactic I was hit with the smell of newly-finished wood.  It brought back pleasant memories of my Dad’s work shop.  I chose the walnut base for its classic Decware look and even though it’s not my favorite wood I find the black top plate and the deep finish on the base to be quite striking.  While I’ve admired Decware’s amps since I got into Head-Fi in 2007 I have not cared for the white top plates – they remind me too much of educational electronics kits.  Now I am just as pleased with the Taboo’s classic aesthetics as my Woo WA7’s (in black, mind you) contemporary aesthetics.
   
  I plugged in all the stock tubes (Valve Art 274B, Russian 6N1P, and Russian 6P15P-EV), ran some ICs to my line router, plugged in my AKG 702, and fired it up.  The tubes glowed happily and the bias meters leveled out just shy of 30 milliamps.  I queued up Open Your Ears from the Head-Fi label and took it for a spin.  Sounded good but something was weird.  OK, it just came out of the box so I held up on any opinions.  Flipping lucid switches just created too much to think about so I made sure they were off.  I moved on to Dr. Chesky’s Sensational…Binaural Sound Show.  I listened to a couple music tracks and they just didn’t sound right.  Started track 20 “Right Channel ID Test” -- interestingly, Dr. Chesky was whispering into my right eyeball instead of my ear.  Started flipping lucid switches and voilà, with Original Lucid Mode “On” Dr. Chesky was back to whispering sweet nothings in my right ear.  So, once I figured out the Original Lucid Mode switch was backward while the New Lucid Mode switch was as shown in the manual everything started coming together.  I was able to listen to some more music when my journey was cut short by my wife volunteering me to help some friends with a house project.  Darn...
   
  At least my Taboo is not going away and I have a fun journey ahead including an LCD-3 and some tube rolling.  I’m really looking forward to everyone else’s experiences and impressions.  As getting to a Head-Fi meet is nearly impossible I rely on learning by listening to my gear in comparison to what I read from other people.  So, get out there and get Tabooed and Lucidized!  …and come back here and write about it...
   
  Thanks!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





v-duh said:


> day at lunch time.  I promptly took the afternoon off.


 





  Awesome!


----------



## longbowbbs

New CSP2+/Taboo MK III setup....


----------



## dminches

Looks great, Eric.


----------



## Argo Duck

V-Duh, great write-up. Had to laugh, as I think my Taboo II's Left/Right channel inputs got wired in - shall I say a mirror universe??? (Kind of amusing, as I'm one of these people who can't tell left from right anyway).

Anyways guys, stop tempting me to order one of these things - grrr!


----------



## Frank I

My review is done and just being proof read so it wont be long before its up. I did a very detailed review so I look forward to your impressions as well.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great Frank - looking forward to this


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> V-Duh, great write-up. Had to laugh, as I think my Taboo II's Left/Right channel inputs got wired in - shall I say a mirror universe??? (Kind of amusing, as I'm one of these people who can't tell left from right anyway).
> 
> Anyways guys, stop tempting me to order one of these things - grrr!


 
   
  If that's the case you should get it fixed by them at some point, even if for the resale value.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> My review is done and just being proof read so it wont be long before its up. I did a very detailed review so I look forward to your impressions as well.


 
  I am ready for a great read, Frank!


----------



## Argo Duck

For sure, I would absolutely do that as the unit would need to go back to Decware anyway before a new life-time warranty could be issued to the buyer.

Reason I didn't get it fixed is (a) it's a long, expensive (say $250) trip from New Zealand to USA and back again; (b) it's real easy to cross the I/C to 'fix' the problem. TBH, at first I wasn't sure _which_ amp was wired wrong anyway - I only knew it and my main SS amp differed.

It's unlikely I'll ever sell the II in any case. For a tube amp the only upgrade I can envisage is the T-III or an ECBA, and put the II into service elsewhere...


----------



## Landmantx

Come on Frank! I am tired of sitting on pins and needles. It gets uncomfortable after a while!


----------



## V-Duh

I've been poking around dagogo in hopes of seeing Frank's review when it pops up.  There's some interesting stuff on there.


----------



## Frank I

The review is being sent to Decware for a fact check and then it will be posted on Dagogo.com when is available I will be the first to post the link here and I thank you for your patience. it is a little different than posting here.


----------



## djtw345

Frank, can't wait to read your review. Thanks for all your efforts. A whole batch is now in the shipping department, including mine.
   
  Won't be long now......


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





djtw345 said:


> Frank, can't wait to read your review. Thanks for all your efforts. A whole batch is now in the shipping department, including mine.
> 
> Won't be long now.....


 
  My editor forwarded it to Decware so my end is all done now. As soon as it is published I will post the link and thanks guys for all your support.


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet, broke onto page 2!!!
  Did we get an update on how the the woodworker is doing?  Hope all is well for him.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Sweet, broke onto page 2!!!
> Did we get an update on how the the woodworker is doing?  Hope all is well for him.


 
   
  I emailed them today about that.
   
  One of the Taboo orders is waiting for a walnut base which is the same base I ordered.
  I will hopefully hear from them tomorrow sometime.
   
  I hope he is okay as well.
  Maybe they have someone else making them?
  They managed to get cherry bases for all those held up orders at least, so that's my guess.
  Can't imagine he is back to good health already.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

Can't wait to see your review Frank!


----------



## longbowbbs

Woohoo...NOS Mullard EL84's in the house for the Taboo!


----------



## Frank I

I will be reviewing the new Omega Super T monitor for the Taboo Mk 111. Louis Chocho has been building speakers in Connecticut for over 20 years and his new line has a 94DB driver that can be used on stands, and he also has a desktop model.  They are high quality speakers  built by hand and have a 10 year warranty and sell for $495.00  For anyone looking for high quality single drivers speakers  should check out the Omega Speaker line.


----------



## longbowbbs

Very interested in your impressions of the Omega's Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Very interested in your impressions of the Omega's Frank!


 
  I owned the Super 5 and it was terrific with the Mk11. Louis told me this new driver is so much better so it will be exciting to hear it near-field as well.
   
  I will keep everyone posted,


----------



## MoNelly

Got My Taboo MKIII. I've only spent a few hours with it, so these impressions are very preliminary. Source is a CEntrance DACmini and a Thinkpad notebook running J-River Media Center. 
   
  LCD-2s using a 4-pin balanced Q-Audio cable. This amp really wakes the LCD-2s up versus the DACmini's headphone amp. The  Taboo is dead silent with neither lucid mode engaged. There's a very slight hum with "classic" lucid mode on; a bit louder hum with the "new" version engaged. I'm super sensitive to hum, but I don't consider the hum  on either setting problematic (its mostly noticeable between tracks). Listening to songs and toggling amongst the three options (off/classic/new) is pretty addictive, but on the LCD-2s I tend to favor off or using the classic mode. (I sometimes use JRiver's crossfeed option, too). The new Lucid mode does seem to boost the output and it makes for some interesting listening. Background sound elements are made quite audible, which can be pretty amusing on tracks from bands like the Beastie Boys who tend to have a lot going on at lower levels. 
   
  AKG K702 Anniversary Editions using a stock single-ended cable. The K701 was my first "legit" can, and I've owned and sold several pairs over the years. I bought a used set of the Anniversary Edition in anticipation of receiving the Taboo, as I know these cans shine when properly amplified. I only spent a few minutes with them using the classic Lucid mode (zero hum), but my first impression was very favorable. The bass on these cans is much improved from earlier versions, and the Taboo seems to drive them well. I'd forgotten just how comfortable these cans are, especially compared to the LCD-2s.
   
  Blumenstein Orca single-driver speakers. Steve makes a point of saying the new Taboo is primarily geared toward headphone listening, and he doesn't like to put a headphone/speaker switch in (which means unplugging the speakers for silent headphone listening). Don't be fooled: this is a great speaker amp. I swapped the Taboo in for a Decware Super Zen amp and the improvement was not subtle. The Taboo has more power, and while I don't need much for my near field setup the Orcas seemed to really benefit from the extra muscle. I managed to sell the Super Zen (a really great little amp in its own right, BTW) just prior to the arrival of the Taboo, so I can't A/B them, but let's just say the Taboo is not a compromise. And there is zero hum from the speakers using the Taboo with the lucid modes off. Dead quite. 
   
  So, first impressions: I love it. This is the third Decware amp I've owned (I still regret parting with the original Mini Torii) and I have to say it's a majestic beast. Steampunk meets practical, reliable audio bliss. And best of all, with the Taboo you can share the love. I have four headphone jacks on this amp, so the next time my headphone pal Deadie is in town we can both listen at the same time instead of having to swap in and out. How cool is that?
   
  More to come, once the fawning/giggling stage has passed and I can be a little more objective.


----------



## Rizlaw

As a Taboo III / Omega Super 3E owner, I can say that IMO they are a near perfect match. I listen desktop, nearfield (3ft). I'm using a Philips 5R4GYS Rectifier and Russian 6n1p-ev / 6p15p-ev tubes. The Valve Art 274B tube that came with the amp wasn't bad at all, but I prefer the Philips. Steve thinks the Valve Art 274B is a 5u4G in disguise.
   
  Edit: Some may wonder why buy the Taboo III for speakers when it's supposed to be a SOTA headphone amp. In my case I had purchased Steve's SE34I.3 "Rachael" SET, but it had a hum problem that Steve couldn't fix for me because he couldn't hear, on his test bench, what I heard at home. It was back and forth to Steve twice. It wasn't due to tubes or ground loops or anything else we could determine. So, being the great guy Steve D is, he suggested trying a Taboo III with a little foil shielding thrown in for good measure given my hum issues with the SE34I.3. The same type of shielding used in the ZP3 phono stage. The Taboo III is inherently quieter than the SE34I.3. When I got The Taboo III, on April Fool's Day no less, I plugged it in and it was dead silent - no hum. It sounds every bit as good as the SE34I.3, albeit with one less watt of power (4.5 vs 5.5). This, as MoNelly's post above notes, is one great speaker amp, too.
   
  The Omega's are super fast (almost electrostatic fast) and revealing. To my ears, the frequency response is very even from about 50hz to 15Khz (highest top end I can hear theses days) - no nasty bumps or dips. Sound stage depth and width are very good to excellent and very much dependent on your front end and quality of recordings. Very revealing of poor to mediocre material. LPs sound absolutely beautiful.  You will need a powered sub woofer if you like low bass or listen to music that has low frequency content. IMO, a sub helps round out the sound of the Super 3E or T. The level 3 finish (in my case Bubinga, an African rosewood variant) is to die for. Louis is a master craftsman and one outstanding fella. Apart from Steve D's lifetime warranty, not too many audio companies offer a 10 year warranty.  Between Steve D. and Louis O., you have two of the greatest guys in high end audio.
   
  I have a CSP+ on order and I'm also considering a ZP3 phono stage. I believe, and Steve seems to agree with me, that the CSP+ is needed to provide a little more voltage and "balls" to sound than you can get with a W4S DAC-2 (2.6v tops at Max output via RCA) alone. 
   
  Edit: I almost forgot. The Taboo III, as you know, has 4 headphone outputs (2 phono) and (2 XLR) mounted flat on the black top plate. This means dirt could clog these openings.  I suggest you consider some plugs for all 4 openings when not in use. I ordered mine from Markertek.com and received them 2 days later. The covers are inexpensive and made of soft rubber. They are black in color and fit snugly. The "Phone" plugs I previously linked to don't work, they are too big for the phono jack holes. I removed the phone cover link. However, either of the two XLR covers work fine. I recommend the "NDF" XLR plug, it's a lot easier to use.
   
  http://www.markertek.com/Connectors-Adapters/Audio-Connectors/XLR-Connectors/Neutrik-USA-Inc/NDF.xhtml
   
  http://www.markertek.com/Connectors-Adapters/Audio-Connectors/XLR-Connectors/Neutrik-USA-Inc/SCDM.xhtml


----------



## Frank I

I am glad your enjoying the MK111 with he Omega speakers. The 3T will be my first review for Louis  in the future I will doing the floor-stander as well. I should have a second listening room
  within the next 60 days to properly set up larger speakers. Louis speakers are hand built and as you say of very high quality.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great information in the last few posts guys. Good to hear more about those little Orcas, and but MoNelly, what if you and Deadie - or potentially four people!! - want to listen at different levels??? Has Steve unleashed a new form of audiophile war? 

Rizlaw, great to hear your description of the 3E - almost electrostatic speed huh? And liquidity too I'm figuring? Makes sense Taboo III would sound good with speakers of course, as this is its heritage from Taboos I and II...

Based on this, I'm looking forward to your review of these new Omegas Frank.

The Parker Audio speakers interested me too as they're essentially crossoverless yet have a tweeter (adding that subtle bit of treble extension Rizlaw notes). 
Contacted them over two weeks ago but no reply...


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Great information in the last few posts guys. Good to hear more about those little Orcas, and but MoNelly, what if you and Deadie - or potentially four people!! - want to listen at different levels??? Has Steve unleashed a new form of audiophile war?


 
   
  Taboo owner gets to drive the volume level and slap the wrist of visitors who reach for the stepped attenuator.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ LOL. And so you should!


----------



## bearFNF

You guys think there is enough jam from the Taboo MK III to run my Normal Bias Stax Lambdas off an SRD7/sb?  I know it says it needs at least 10 Watts...but???  Will need to give this a try when mine gets here.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> You guys think there is enough jam from the Taboo MK III to run my Normal Bias Stax Lambdas off an SRD7/sb?  I know it says it needs at least 10 Watts...but???  Will need to give this a try when mine gets here.


 
  I  do not believe it will drive the Stax headphones. You may damage your amp trying to do that.


----------



## bearFNF

Ok.  That's kinda what I thought, but I thought I'd ask.  I will stick with what I have for the Stax or maybe a Mini Torii II would do it...ouch the wallet just kicked me.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Ok.  That's kinda what I thought, but I thought I'd ask.  I will stick with what I have for the Stax or maybe a Mini Torii II would do it...ouch the wallet just kicked me.


 
  There is always a Liquid Lightning II...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> There is always a Liquid Lightning II...


 
  Ouch!!!  I tried to look the LL II up and my wallet put me in a head lock and made me promise never to try it again.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Although..., oh crap now you have me thinking, I could get it and put a normal bias and a pro bias in it and get a new set of Stax (007 or 009)...hhmmm.


----------



## Frank I

The Taboo MK111 will be playing tunes tomorrow at the NY Headfi Meet


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  We got another 22 inches of snow over the last couple of days. Nothing to do but listen to headphones!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> We got another 22 inches of snow over the last couple of days. Nothing to do but listen to headphones!


 
   
  The Roseau force field is in effect so the snow stayed show of us.  The got nine inches by the cities I heard.  I was just out riding the motorcycle today (was about 37 degrees).  I am SLOOOOWLY moving up the list...should be another four weeks for mine to ship I hope.  Maybe sooner if they turn up the juice.


----------



## snapontom

Twist off beer caps cover my headphone jack wells.  MGD looks good, as does the Coor's Banquet, maybe Dad's rootbeer next.   It's easy to change styles.  I really like the Taboo MKIII with the standard base you have.  A customer of mine gave me a Sansui TU-7900 receiver with the white background and black faceplate.  It really goes well with my Decware system!  I have been having a blast going through the thrift store bins and I have picked up some great albums for like $.50.  The Santana Abraxis album is my latest find.  I bought a Spin Clean record cleaner and I highly recommend something to clean the vinyl grooves, it brings back all the fidelity.  That MKIII with the standard base is classic, good choice.


----------



## Landmantx

They raped my credit card today, so I should have my MK3 in just a few days! I will report back with more details soon.


----------



## Frank I

Decware Taboo MKIII Headphone Amplifier Review  For anyone interested.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Decware Taboo MKIII Headphone Amplifier Review  For anyone interested.


 
   
  I really enjoyed the review Frank.  I look forward to reading more from you at your new digs.


----------



## Frank I

Thanks so much.  Glad you enjoyed the review.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Decware Taboo MKIII Headphone Amplifier Review  For anyone interested.


 
   
  Awesome review. I used to own the V200 so hearing about the improvements makes me want this now.  Might be reaching for the Credit Card... Now seriously, I have been pondering between this and the GS-X MK2, but might save a penny and have some tube fun. Not sure if anyone actually compared the two...


----------



## longbowbbs

..."Tease Me...Please Me".....see, even the Scorpions want to Taboo MK III after Frank's review! (They sure sound good right now on the MK III and the HD800's! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
   
  Great job on the review, Frank! Glad to see your by-line rolling!


----------



## V-Duh

Frank, I also enjoyed your review.  I'm also pleased that I have a few of the same recordings you used for reference.  I have had similar experiences to yours -- I am often working while listening and I have found myself stopped and just staring off in the distance comletely engrossed in the music.  I definitely love my Taboo and its not even broke in yet.
   
  You mentioned that you have also heard the LCD-3 with the Taboo.  Was there any difference in synergy between the LCD-2 and LCD-3?  Your comments on the synergy with the HD800 coupled with my extremely positive experience with the AKG 702 have definitely moved the HD800 up on my Want List.  
   
  Thanks for all the work Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Thanks so much V-Duh. I heard the LCD3 with the Taboo and in the day it was here it had more deeper and extended bass and is very synergistic with the Taboo Mk 111.  I would love to spend more time with the lCD3 to listen more closely but I liked what I heard. There are duifferences between the LCD2 and lCD3 but I would need to spend more hours with them to really see what the differences are. Nice headphone though,


----------



## bearFNF

Nice review Frank,  Makes me want to get mine in that much faster.


----------



## Frank I

Glad you liked it Bear. Where are you on the order list?


----------



## mwindham08

Too bad it looks like they didn't do anything today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Great review I really enjoyed reading it.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Too bad it looks like they didn't do anything today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks and glad you liked it.  It is a great amp


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Glad you liked it Bear. Where are you on the order list?


 
  Page 2, so getting close...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Page 2, so getting close...


 
  It will go fast and I am now waiting for a DNS Stratus so I now know the feeling


----------



## Kendoji

Argh I only bought my Violectric rig a few months ago, and I love it, but am now starting to obsess over the MKIII.


----------



## negura

A few hours later order placed: black, 4pin balanced. My current headphones: LCD-2, HD800 - sounds like it hits the spot with both. I was concerned for how it matched with the HD800 being marketed as the "planar amp", but the great review and other comments have cleared it up for me. Considering I owned the V200 and loved it, and the Conductor I have now only very narrowly won for me as an amp, sounds like good times ahead with the Taboo Mk3. Much look forward for the potential of the LUCID modes + tube rolling + balanced.
   
  Now let the wait begin.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> A few hours later order placed: black, 4pin balanced. My current headphones: LCD-2, HD800 - sounds like it hits the spot with both. I was concerned for how it matched with the HD800 being marketed as the "planar amp", but the great review and other comments have cleared it up for me. Considering I owned the V200 and loved it, and the Conductor I have now only very narrowly won for me as an amp, sounds like good times ahead with the Taboo Mk3. Much look forward for the potential of the LUCID modes + tube rolling + balanced.
> 
> Now let the wait begin.


 
  You will love it with the HD800's! it is a terrific combo.


----------



## Argo Duck

Frank, an excellent review. Highly informative about the background and evolution, and answers all the questions about its sound qualities, flexibility with different phones, comparison with SS as well as its predecessor, and even whether it needs a preamp! Also easy reading and jargon-free. Really well done.

Btw, "For those interested" must be the understatement of the year


----------



## V-Duh

negura said:


> A few hours later order placed: black, 4pin balanced. My current headphones: LCD-2, HD800 - sounds like it hits the spot with both. I was concerned for how it matched with the HD800 being marketed as the "planar amp", but the great review and other comments have cleared it up for me. Considering I owned the V200 and loved it, and the Conductor I have now only very narrowly won for me as an amp, sounds like good times ahead with the Taboo Mk3. Much look forward for the potential of the LUCID modes + tube rolling + balanced.
> 
> 
> Now let the wait begin.




Just to be clear and you probably know this: the Taboo is not a balanced amp. The XLR outputs make it so balanced cans may be driven from this single-ended amp. With the 4-pin option you can drive two balanced cans at the same time. 

Have fun watching The List. You won't regret it on the other end.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Frank, an excellent review. Highly informative about the background and evolution, and answers all the questions about its sound qualities, flexibility with different phones, comparison with SS as well as its predecessor, and even whether it needs a preamp! Also easy reading and jargon-free. Really well done.
> 
> Btw, "For those interested" must be the understatement of the year


 
  Aidee thanks so much for you kind words.  I am glad you liked it.


----------



## Llloyd

great review frank.  it was your original review of the MKII is what ultimately made me decide to go with the taboo.  It was worth the wait and decware really makes some excellent products with great value.  There's a lot of really over hyped stuff on head fi, but the taboo is a product that I can easily stand by and recommend to anyone.  It sounds like the MK3 is even more versatile (I remember people saying the 2 with high impedance phones was not so great.  Although, unfortunately I do feel that with the new pricing that the overall value of the taboo has decreased.   That being said I have not heard the MK3, but I find it hard to imagine it being that much better in terms of the extra dollar amount.  Maybe those who have experienced both can share their opinion.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

If Landmantx can make it to the Dallas meet with his MKIII, it will be a fun day auditioning it against my tuberolled CSP. *rubs hands eagerly*


----------



## Landmantx

Well, Nick, my Taboo should be here any day and my HD800s don't arrive until 5/5. Maybe a preparty is in order????


----------



## jazzerdave

When do the speakers arrive?


----------



## Landmantx

I haven't ordered the speakers yet. My wallet has shrivled up like a prune


----------



## negura

Quote: 





v-duh said:


> Just to be clear and you probably know this: the Taboo is not a balanced amp. The XLR outputs make it so balanced cans may be driven from this single-ended amp. With the 4-pin option you can drive two balanced cans at the same time.
> 
> Have fun watching The List. You won't regret it on the other end.


 
   
  Yeah - it's not paramount to me it doesn't have balanced inputs, but I've been pondering for a moment or two how come it sounds better out of the balanced outputs.
   
  Could it be the cables?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> great review frank.  it was your original review of the MKII is what ultimately made me decide to go with the taboo.  It was worth the wait and decware really makes some excellent products with great value.  There's a lot of really over hyped stuff on head fi, but the taboo is a product that I can easily stand by and recommend to anyone.  It sounds like the MK3 is even more versatile (I remember people saying the 2 with high impedance phones was not so great.  Although, unfortunately I do feel that with the new pricing that the overall value of the taboo has decreased.   That being said I have not heard the MK3, but I find it hard to imagine it being that much better in terms of the extra dollar amount.  Maybe those who have experienced both can share their opinion.


 
  Thanks Llloyd for the kind words. i remember when you purchased the  Mk11. The improvements the MK 111 has over the MK11 are subtle but noticeable. I described what we heard when we compared both amplifiers. For people looking for that last ounce of detail it may be worth to upgrade and for most Mk11 owners for that subtle improvement it may not be worth to upgrade. The tube in  the driver section of the MK111 is the popular 6922 which is one of my favorite tubes but the 12AT7 Mullard  I used in the MK11 was also excellent. The Mk three gives you a little more transparency and  has a little more in sound stage but again they are subtle improvements.


----------



## dminches

Frank, excellent review. People will really get a sense for the beauty of the MKIII from the write up. What you wrote was what we heard the day Zheng and I came over. And congrats on your first full review.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Frank, excellent review. People will really get a sense for the beauty of the MKIII from the write up. What you wrote was what we heard the day Zheng and I came over. And congrats on your first full review.


 
  David I am glad you enjoyed the review. It was great having you and Zheng over that day and look coward to another one. When I get the Stratus you should host a mini meet so I can
   
  hear your fantastic setup in your new room.   That was the first official review for Dagogo and I will doing many more as well, but I will always be part of this wonderful community.  
   
  Headfi is my favorite community to meet people and share the experiences with such terrific friends that I have made. Thanks David for your contribution in the review process for the
   
  MK111.


----------



## Frank I

I forgot to mention I am purchasing EL 84from Tube Maze. Nicklolay has a good selection of NOS tubes and is reasonable and went out of his way to make sure the tubes were matched and more important very quiet. His pricing is reasonable also. <img src="http://tubemaze.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/header_bg.jpg" width="852" height="89" alt=""/>


----------



## negura

Hi Frank,
   
  How would you compare the bass quantity, extension and texture of the MK3 with the V200. In particular with the HD800s - I guess the real question is, is it satisfying?
   
  Thx.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





negura said:


> Hi Frank,
> 
> How would you compare the bass quantity, extension and texture of the MK3 with the V200. In particular with the HD800s - I guess the real question is, is it satisfying?
> 
> Thx.


 
  The bass is very tight and controlled and also well extended. I love the V200 but the Taboo MK111 is the better amp as it should be at the price difference. You will not miss any bass witht he Taboo. The amp has the texture and extension that is very satisfying.  IMO the V200 is outstanding as well and built to a price point.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The bass is very tight and controlled and also well extended. I love the V200 but the Taboo MK111 is the better amp as it should be at the price difference. You will not miss any bass witht he Taboo. The amp has the texture and extension that is very satisfying.  IMO the V200 is outstanding as well and built to a price point.


 
   
  Thanks. That's really great to hear. I completely agree regarding the V200 and I loved mine (before it had to go to allow funding other stuff), so hearing the Taboo MK3 improves in all these areas is stuff to get excited about.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I wonder if the MKIII represents a noticeable, yet subtle, improvement over the MKII... then I suspect the CSP may still be the better-sounding match for the HD800. The difference between it and the MKII was anything but subtle when I owned both. 

Didn't like the HD800+MKII combo very much. Was more satisfying to listen to Grados with it. (!!)


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I wonder if the MKIII represents a noticeable, yet subtle, improvement over the MKII... then I suspect the CSP may still be the better-sounding match for the HD800. The difference between it and the MKII was anything but subtle when I owned both.
> 
> Didn't like the HD800+MKII combo very much. Was more satisfying to listen to Grados with it. (!!)


 
  The biggest difference with the Mk11 with the hD800 is the balanced output . The 4 pin  XLR stepped up the performance over the CSP2, so much so that I sold the CSP2. The tube compliment in the Mk111 is different also with the 6922 in the front end driver. The CSP2 is still an excellent amplifier for the HD800 and is still one of my favorites. The MK 111 is very satisfying as well.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm glad its not a problem for you.  As far as the difference in sound quality between the TRS and XLR outputs, I'd have to leave that question to those with more knowledge.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Balanced vs. unbalanced _shouldn't_ make a difference in sound quality in itself. Balanced was designed for avoiding interference and hum when running longer lengths. Not a problem in most home environments.
   
  When we _do_ hear differences, it's usually due to variances in input/output implementation. For example, the reason "balanced" sounds so much better via the Bryston BHA-1 is because the unbalanced port was only added as an afterthought. Thus, due to the internal design compromise, it doesn't reflect what the amp can truly do. It's the _amp,_ not the _cable._
   
  Taboo MKIII has dual 1/4" unbalanced jacks as well as a pair of balanced XLR's up front. Might/might not sound significantly different depending upon the internal configuration. But I aims to find out at the next meeting...


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Balanced vs. unbalanced _shouldn't_ make a difference in sound quality in itself. Balanced was designed for avoiding interference and hum when running longer lengths. Not a problem in most home environments.
> 
> When we _do_ hear differences, it's usually due to variances in input/output implementation. For example, the reason "balanced" sounds so much better via the Bryston BHA-1 is because the unbalanced port was only added as an afterthought. Thus, due to the internal design compromise, it doesn't reflect what the amp can truly do. It's the _amp,_ not the _cable._
> 
> Taboo MKIII has dual 1/4" unbalanced jacks as well as a pair of balanced XLR's up front. Might/might not sound significantly different depending upon the internal configuration. But I aims to find out at the next meeting...


 
   
  See...more knowledge, better answer.  Thanks Nick.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Balanced vs. unbalanced _shouldn't_ make a difference in sound quality in itself. Balanced was designed for avoiding interference and hum when running longer lengths. Not a problem in most home environments.
> 
> When we _do_ hear differences, it's usually due to variances in input/output implementation. For example, the reason "balanced" sounds so much better via the Bryston BHA-1 is because the unbalanced port was only added as an afterthought. Thus, due to the internal design compromise, it doesn't reflect what the amp can truly do. It's the _amp,_ not the _cable._
> 
> Taboo MKIII has dual 1/4" unbalanced jacks as well as a pair of balanced XLR's up front. Might/might not sound significantly different depending upon the internal configuration. But I aims to find out at the next meeting...


 
   
  Well said.  What you said is consistent with what I've been told by the guys who design and build all this stuff.


----------



## negura

Good points. Is there any recommendation from Decware regarding Balanced vs SE?


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes excellent points from Nick!

Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.

If true though, might give balanced a small sonic advantage (with speaker amps), and support what Frank found between the two options.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.


 
   
  Why would they be related?


----------



## Argo Duck

Iirc you can wire straight through versus having to common up. But probably wrong - I did a *little* electronics (which didnt interest me) in my physics degree, and _that_ was 30 years ago.

Best ignore me and move on I think!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Yes excellent points from Nick!
> 
> Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.


 
   
  Since the Taboo's output is transformer-coupled, it should already be a balanced output headphone amplifier.
   
  se


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Steve! So is there anything one has to do to get to the unbalanced output that *doesn't* have to be done to the balanced hp out?

And could this potentially effect SQ?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks Steve! So is there anything one has to do to get to the unbalanced output that *doesn't* have to be done to the balanced hp out?
> 
> And could this potentially effect SQ?


 
   
  There would be no unbalanced output unless the bottoms of the output transformer secondaries are tied to ground, in which case all of the outputs would be unbalanced. I don't know exactly how the Taboo is wired internally so I can't say anything with absolute certainty.
   
  se


----------



## Argo Duck

I was thinking ground came into it...thanks for clarifying Steve. And I'll stick to things I know more about in future.


----------



## V-Duh

I found another Taboo tube rolling option to try:  a pair of Ei Elite EL84EG tubes in a box of audio stuff hidden away.  It appears that in early-2000s this tube was recommended by a couple Head-Fiers (including Nick Dangerous) for the ASL MG-Head.  I understand they were made in a factory in Niš, Yugoslavia (now Serbia) using “Philips technology.”  The quality was reported to be good but suffered after the Yugoslav wars in the 1990s.  I’m hoping the Elite tubes did not suffer quality issues as much as others.
   
  The internals do seem to be similar to the Amperex and Philips Holland EL84s.  I also notice the current JJ EL84 is set up the same way – as a copy of the Philips setup?  Does anyone have a recollection of the sound signature of these tubes?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Aha! The old MG Head OTL days w/HD580... what good times (and value!). Seems I'm back where I started again with Senns and tubes in another price-performance OTL configuration. Oh well, I likes what I likes. 

Wish I could recall the sonic signature of those Elites, but too many Belgian ales have filtered through my kidneys since then. I remember I didn't think the MG Head was worth shelling out for big buck EL84 drivers... just stuck with the JJ's and spent the cash rolling the signal tube. Never found better than the Raytheon windmill getter 5751 black plate and yellow label Sylvania JHS-5751 black plate in the MG Head.

I guess history really does repeat itself, because it's the same story with the CSP. Drivers are stock 6N1P-EV and again I didn't hear enough benefit to swap them out. Spent the good money on the signal and rectifier tubes instead. (Mullard old shield 1960's E88CC and EML 5U4G meshplate).

The trick is to roll the signal tube first, then the rectifier... because it's about the synergy of the two together. Then swap a few pairs of drivers and see where that takes you.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Aha! The old MG Head OTL days w/HD580... what good times (and value!). Seems I'm back where I started again with Senns and tubes in another price-performance OTL configuration. Oh well, I likes what I likes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My first desktop setup was the MG-Head OTL with an HD600.  Didn't have the time or energy to research tube rolling back then...just wanted to listen to music.
   
  I have a few signal tubes showing up tomorrow:  Ediswan CV2492, Matsu****a/National PCC88, Philips 7DJ8, & Siemens 7308.  I figured that would give me a range of signatures to try.
   
  My Taboo was shipped with a Valve Art 274b so that's a good starter.  I also picked up a Philips 5R4GYS.  Not a wide range but just beginning.
   
  For the drivers I have some Philips EL84s and those Ei EL84EGs.  However, it seems Steve really set the amp up for the SV83s so I don't expect much beyond stock.
   
  In all reality it's premature to be purchasing tubes as the amp doesn't have enough hours on it to be making meaningful changes.  More importantly, I plan on tuning it for the LCD-3 that I don't have yet because of the IRS taking a big hunk of flesh on the 15th.  Cart...horse...what?...
   
  Thanks for the info!


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Even if you don't plan to roll driver tubes, it's a good idea to get a pair of EL84's just to hear the difference from the stock SV83's. It is noticeable enough to base a preference upon.

Also good point about voicing for cans. The HD800 benefits from quality bass, which was a strong criteria for selecting the tubes I ended up with. But I overdid it at first! It takes time to figure out where "effective neutral" is, relative to everything in the chain (and in your head).


----------



## mwindham08

If you swap out the SV83's with something else can you still use the Lucid modes?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

No Lucid with EL84's according to Steve. Even so, it's worth hearing the difference with/without. Some prefer the EL84 sound regardless.
   
  oops... see below


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> If you swap out the SV83's with something else can you still use the Lucid modes?


 


   
  Quote:


nick dangerous said:


> No Lucid with EL84's according to Steve. Even so, it's worth hearing the difference with/without. Some prefer the EL84 sound regardless.


 
   
  Would it also depend on which headphones we're tuning for here? I am much looking forward to check out the Lucid modes with the LCD-2s, but not sure if we need to soundstage expand anything for the HD800s. At least based on the description.


----------



## V-Duh

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> No Lucid with EL84's according to Steve. Even so, it's worth hearing the difference with/without. Some prefer the EL84 sound regardless.


 
   
  I understood the "Hazen Grid Technology," not the Lucid modes, required the SV83.  I believe they are independent of one another.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> No Lucid with EL84's according to Steve. Even so, it's worth hearing the difference with/without. Some prefer the EL84 sound regardless.


 
   
  That is not true.  I have been using EL84s exclusively and lucid works. (Unless that switch is doing something else.
   
  Frank, can you comment on this?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I am confused. Hazen <> Lucid?


----------



## Argo Duck

V-Duh and dminches are exactly right. The Hazen-grid mod (see the decware forum thread and/or white paper 'christmas comes early' - ill post link if i can find it) only works with SV83. And may only be needed by this tube. It's purely to do with SQ.

Lucid mode is a unique product of taboo's floating topology. It's the circuit design, not an aspect of any one tube. There are two white papers about this, narrating taboo's design process. An interesting read. These _were_ linked in the previous taboo page...not sure about the new one.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Aha! So it is...
   
  Hazen = SQ improvement = only heard via SV83
  Lucid = Soundstage improvement = any tube complement via the Taboo
   
  Well then... I guess that makes the decision to roll EL84's a bit easier, since it's a matter of sound quality preference either way.


----------



## Argo Duck

Here we go: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1243915681
This is the hazen mod. One sceptic, but everyone else heard a large difference. Hey, life is illusion right?

(Sorry for posting the link raw - mobile mode is good for tracking subscriptions but clunky for editing I find)


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is not true.  I have been using EL84s exclusively and lucid works. (Unless that switch is doing something else.
> 
> Frank, can you comment on this?


 
  The lucid mode works with the  EL 84 tubes . Both the original  and the new lucid mode both operate with the El84 tubes. The  Hazen mod does not work with the EL84 but does with the SV83. I like the SV 83 but much  prefer the  ehtreal sound of the EL84 and they are my preference for using the Taboo MK111. I hear not large differences with the Hazen mod and the SV83 to make me want to abandon what I hear in transparency with the EL84 tubes.


----------



## Landmantx

To all of you HD800 users out there..... Does the analaxis mod (I believe that's what its called) make the cans sound better over the Taboo. I am trying to determine if I need to go to the craft store and buy the felt before my phones ship on the 5th. 

Let me know.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> To all of you HD800 users out there..... Does the analaxis mod (I believe that's what its called) make the cans sound better over the Taboo. I am trying to determine if I need to go to the craft store and buy the felt before my phones ship on the 5th.
> 
> Let me know.


 
  I personally would not mod the hD800 I own. Sennheiser created a reference headphone and with a good aftermarket balanced cable I have been very happy. I don't hear any bright treble in my unit. Modded headphones also voids your warranty,


----------



## Landmantx

I hear you Frank. I just read all of Tyll's blog about how this mod helps with a resonance that happens in the headphone that causes a ringing and makes the headphone come off as too bright to many. I probably will just go stock for a while as I have a lot of work to do to dial it all in. 

If anyone has any experience here, I would love to hear thoughts. Otherwise, I will probably wait on it.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I hear you Frank. I just read all of Tyll's blog about how this mod helps with a resonance that happens in the headphone that causes a ringing and makes the headphone come off as too bright to many. I probably will just go stock for a while as I have a lot of work to do to dial it all in.
> 
> If anyone has any experience here, I would love to hear thoughts. Otherwise, I will probably wait on it.


 
   
  Danny might still have his pair of Anax modded HD800's.  We could try to get him to bring his to the Dallas meet (or just another mini-meet) and compare them in person.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> To all of you HD800 users out there..... Does the analaxis mod (I believe that's what its called) make the cans sound better over the Taboo. I am trying to determine if I need to go to the craft store and buy the felt before my phones ship on the 5th.
> 
> Let me know.


 
   
  I have crafted Tyll's mod version a while ago and once I got it in, I never wanted to remove it. It's subtle but very effective for sorting out the brightness. Adds a bit of overall body too, very subtle. My ears are very sensitive to treble and thus love this mod.  A couple of friends modded theirs and have very similar findings.
   
  That said my Taboo is a couple of months away so I can't comment on this directly. My main gear is a Burson Conductor, which is an excellent match for the HD800, but it's a very neutral device with plenty of treble detail. No rolloffs and stuff, what is there is what you hear. And I do have many sibilant recordings.


----------



## djtw345

I just received my Cherry Base Taboo III today, and it is a beauty. This is the first Decware amp I've owned and I am very impressed. First class workmanship.
   
  It sounds just fine with my LCD-2's, although it is only a few hours old.
   
  Does anyone know what happens when both LUCID mode switches are on? Didn't read anything about this in the instruction manual.
   
  Van Halen has never sounded this good....
   
  Regards, TW.


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats! Did you read *Frank's* review (linked a page or two back)? He may address your question (or will know the answer anyway).


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





djtw345 said:


> I just received my Cherry Base Taboo III today, and it is a beauty. This is the first Decware amp I've owned and I am very impressed. First class workmanship.
> 
> It sounds just fine with my LCD-2's, although it is only a few hours old.
> 
> ...


 
  The lucid modes will change your sound stage. Try the switch on the right first. Listen for a while then flip the left switch. The sound stage expands and on some recordings sounds excellent while on others I choose not to use it. My review is linked at the bottom of  my signature and explains how lucid mode works. Enjoy the amp.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





djtw345 said:


> I just received my Cherry Base Taboo III today, and it is a beauty. This is the first Decware amp I've owned and I am very impressed. First class workmanship.
> 
> It sounds just fine with my LCD-2's, although it is only a few hours old.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Grats and pictures please!


----------



## djtw345

Thanks for the info, Frank.
   
  I just wanted to make sure it was okay to have both Lucid mode switches on at the same time.
   
  Great review as well...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





djtw345 said:


> Thanks for the info, Frank.
> 
> I just wanted to make sure it was okay to have both Lucid mode switches on at the same time.
> 
> Great review as well...


 
  Glad you liked the review. Play with the switches most of the time I prefer it off. I use it on some recordings. On Doug Mcleod I turn it off because he is in the right channel and his guitar coming out of the left channel. On other recordings it really expands the stage.


----------



## OPR8R

Dunno why I lost track of this thread...
   
  Thought I'd chime in on Lucid Mode.  I've only had the MK3 for a couple days, but so far I prefer Original to New, or off.  It's neat though; there's a pretty big difference between the 3 modes.


----------



## Argo Duck

What phones are you using OPR8R?

On a related track: IDK - never heard 'em - but wondering if 'lucid extreme' might be too much with HD800's big soundstage??


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> What phones are you using OPR8R?
> 
> On a related track: IDK - never heard 'em - but wondering if 'lucid extreme' might be too much with HD800's big soundstage??


 
  LCD2 (Bamboo).  Never heard HD800s either, but since you can shut "extreme" and/or "original" off it shouldn't be an issue for HD800 users.
   
  As tempted as I am by HD800s, I need to save for a DAC upgrade first, I think.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> What phones are you using OPR8R?
> 
> On a related track: IDK - never heard 'em - but wondering if 'lucid extreme' might be too much with HD800's big soundstage??


 
  The answer to your question on the new lucid mode with the hD800. It depends on the recording. It lets you hear deeper into the recording studio. More front to back space. It is sometimes fantastic and other times it does not suit  the recording. It will give you more depth. The HD9800 has a wide sound stage but think if your in a concert how bog and wide and deep the musicians are playing, Lucid Mode on some recordings bring you closer to the event.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I hear you Frank. I just read all of Tyll's blog about how this mod helps with a resonance that happens in the headphone that causes a ringing and makes the headphone come off as too bright to many. I probably will just go stock for a while as I have a lot of work to do to dial it all in.
> 
> If anyone has any experience here, I would love to hear thoughts. Otherwise, I will probably wait on it.


 
  Given the HD800's need for a really good chain of components, I wonder about what was being used when people were hearing these sharp trebles? The HD800's have always sounded wonderful with my gear. No mod required for my ears.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Dunno why I lost track of this thread...
> 
> Thought I'd chime in on Lucid Mode.  I've only had the MK3 for a couple days, but so far I prefer Original to New, or off.  It's neat though; there's a pretty big difference between the 3 modes.


 
  I find myself spending more time with old lucid mode...Fun to see how we are all using the settings.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I find myself spending more time with old lucid mode...Fun to see how we are all using the settings.


 
  Are you using the CSP2 to drive the Taboo?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I find myself spending more time with old lucid mode...Fun to see how we are all using the settings.


 
   
  I agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Frank asked if you were using your CPS2+ as a preamp.  My question is, have you tried using your DAC2 to control the volume?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes...I like the combo very much


----------



## jazzerdave

landmantx said:


> I hear you Frank. I just read all of Tyll's blog about how this mod helps with a resonance that happens in the headphone that causes a ringing and makes the headphone come off as too bright to many. I probably will just go stock for a while as I have a lot of work to do to dial it all in.
> 
> If anyone has any experience here, I would love to hear thoughts. Otherwise, I will probably wait on it.




I forgot to add that Tyll generally prefers a darker sound signature and will really admit it. If the HD 800 in its stock form doesn't bother you, it's best to leave it alone. Plus you'll have the option of tube rolling to tailor the sound.


----------



## Frank I

While I am waiting for the Omega review pair of monitors to come in, I am burning the Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables with the Polk 88DB monitors and the Taboo is driving them  
  really well near field. They sound ridiculously good for an inexpensive speaker. These will go in my daughters room when the Omega's come and then I will set up my second room as well with more of Louis floor standers which I will review after the monitors. The Taboo is up to the task.


----------



## Landmantx

I received both the Taboo and the HD800s today! What a great day!


----------



## Landmantx

Duped


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I received both the Taboo and the HD800s today! What a great day!


 
   
  Congrats man!  I hope to hear both soon.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I received both the Taboo and the HD800s today! What a great day!


 
  Congrats.  Have fun!


----------



## bearFNF

I'm the next taboo in line!!!  deep breath...


----------



## Francoy

I wonder if there are "upgraders" around to comment on upgrading the MKII with MKIII tweaks... Anyone around here done some?


----------



## Landmantx

jazzerdave said:


> Congrats man!  I hope to hear both soon.




You're on, Dave. Anytime.


----------



## Landmantx

Holy Smokes! This thing is really coming alive!!!!!! I feel like Gene Wilder.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> Holy Smokes! This thing is really coming alive!!!!!! I feel like Gene Wilder.


 
   
  New avatar perhaps?


----------



## Landmantx

It does bare a strong likeness


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> It does bare a strong likeness


 
   
  It's like Gene Wilder copied your hairdo.


----------



## Landmantx

Listening to the Tron 2 soundtrack atm and it is awesome through this setup. I am just mesmerized.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Brilliant! Which lucid setting?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> It does bare a strong likeness


 
  LMAO Slow down dude. We don't want you to get a heart attack. Glad you like the amps and the hD800


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I'm the next taboo in line!!!  deep breath...


 
  Mine has been on the bench all week!!!
   
  Hopefully it will ship next week, must...try...lucid mode...


----------



## djtw345

Here are a few pics now that the weekend is here and I have some time....
   
  I installed the Philips 5R4GYS, just to see how it sounds, but I have < 12 hrs on the Taboo as I had to get some sleep last night.


----------



## Landmantx

I am a fan of the new lucid mode. Fun!!!! It does seem a bit beyond "natural," but it creates an out-of-head expansive Soundstage! I find myself turning it on a whole lot. I am also really enjoying the CSP paired with the MK3. I really wish I had more nerd-fi experience to fall back on and some tube experience. Still, I am very pleased with how it is going so far. I couldn't imagine much better. Maybe a bit more bass punch from the HD800s. I can't wait to get some help from Dave and Nick when time allows. I want to get this setup completely dialed in.


----------



## Landmantx

Lucinda Williams - Can't Let Go. Great song for the new Lucid Mode!


----------



## djtw345

Do you notice a slight increase in volume as you switch in the original lucid mode and then add the new lucid mode?
   
  Thx.


----------



## jazzgas

If I wanted to use a Turntable with the New Taboo III would the CSP 2 be all I need to add?   Mark


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> If I wanted to use a Turntable with the New Taboo III would the CSP 2 be all I need to add?   Mark


 
  No. If you don't already have one, you will need a phono preamp (moving magnet or moving coil or both). Something like Steve's ZP3 for moving magnet alone. There are also less expensive phono preamps which you can consider here:
   
  http://www.musicdirect.com/c-531-phono-preamps.aspx
  http://store.acousticsounds.com/c/67/Phono_Pre_Amps
  http://loungeaudio.com/


----------



## longbowbbs

Great looking new additions everyone...I have been at a Scout outing so I am just getting caught up. Congrats to all on the new toys!!


----------



## Landmantx

I am in a state of awe. This is so much fun. I may become house-bound. The HD800s are a lot of fun with these two amps. I really can't imagine having any more fun than this. I wish I had the LCD3s to complement the system, but I am totally satisfied.


----------



## longbowbbs

So far with the HD800's in SE I prefer Old Lucid mode over New or Lucid Off. The Mullard EL84's. USAF-596 and Genelax 6922 are workin' it and I finally found the combined settings for pairing up the CSP2+ and the Taboo MK III for my ears.
   
  Whew.......Sounds awesome though!


----------



## Argo Duck

Eric, what does New Lucid do with the 800s you don't like as much?

Cheers, Andre


----------



## longbowbbs

Andre, it is too wide a sound stage more often than not. Steve feels and I agree that New Lucid Mode is best with small group recording of 1-4 musicians with simple miking.
   
  We listened to some jazz recorded that way and NLM really enhanced it. As the production gets bigger, I find it becomes a bit diffuse and cavernous. OLM seems to add just the right amount of cross feed for most recording for me with the HD800. That may be due to the wider sound stage the HD800's already possess.  
   
  So with the HD800, OLM has become my default choice and I will either turn it off or switch on NLM as needed.


----------



## Argo Duck

Ah, that's interesting...much more to it than I expected. Thanks Eric.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Ah, that's interesting...much more to it than I expected. Thanks Eric.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> So far with the HD800's in SE I prefer Old Lucid mode over New or Lucid Off. The Mullard EL84's. USAF-596 and Genelax 6922 are workin' it and I finally found the combined settings for pairing up the CSP2+ and the Taboo MK III for my ears.
> 
> Whew.......Sounds awesome though!



 
 You're a week or two ahead of me. I'm still trying to burn-in the stock tubes so I can hear their true sound before rolling. I'm glad I resisted the urge to roll on day 1. The stock tubes, after less than a week, have already started to blossom. Listening to this amp is a blast.


----------



## mwindham08

Testing and Quality Control...not too much longer!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Testing and Quality Control...not too much longer!


 
  I'm on the bench!!! er...my amp is on the bench I mean...


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I'm on the bench!!! er...my amp is on the bench I mean...


 
  New - I win.


----------



## Landmantx

I love the new Lucid Mode. It is a big time soundstage expander, especially on the HD800s though. The best I can explain it is like listening to a "hall" mode on a digital DSP. It doesn't work with everything, but it makes some music sound so much more "live" and sounds much more like a set of speakers vs. headphones. The old Lucid mode is very subtle and is not a huge difference. I always prefer it on it seems. I really don't like the "in the head" feel of headphones that much, so I appreciate the added options to kind of expand the room. It is kind of like original Lucid is a 12X15 living room and new lucid mode is a 75X150 performance hall to my humble ears. Either way options are great and you lose nothing in sound quality to my ears.


----------



## bearFNF

What would you guys think about me trying to use my Asgard 2 as the pre-amp for my Taboo MKIII.  Does that defeat he purpose of having a tube amp?  Also, do you think my Bifrost will be a bottleneck/problem for the Taboo?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Depends upon the headphones but I find the Bifrost too limiting with the HD800. Concero is the cheapest DAC I've found which does it justice.


----------



## Argo Duck

I agree with Nick. Whereas I found the bifrost close overall to stagedac and eastern electric dacs with Meier concerto, vioolectric v100 or lyr as the amps, it fell behind when taboo entered the frame, sounding muddy and distant with harmonically complex material (e.g. Piano with dense chord structures). Either this was synergy, or taboo has much greater resolution and transparency. Either way...

Otoh, I've ordered the new 'uber' output board upgrade for the bifrost. It's based on the gungnir's output stage. Could be interesting.

There's some interesting stuff by @will on the decware forums about 'riding the gain'. I don't fully understand, but I think it's to do with fine tuning how much the pre- and power- amps contribute relatively of their individual signature to the final sound. I don't think it matters whether the pre is tube, SS or unknown alien technology! It's more to do with the gain controls of e.g. the csp2 I think. Btw, the latter and the zstage will uses have a lot of voltage range, easily more than the 3-4V the taboo II likes to see.

According to Steve Deckert a point of difference of taboo iii is he raised the gain so a preamp isn't needed - and Frank found as much in his review. See Steve's thread on decware where he first announced the new amp for that and other interesting stuff.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Steve picks great and affordable stock tubes!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Depends upon the headphones but I find the Bifrost too limiting with the HD800. Concero is the cheapest DAC I've found which does it justice.


 
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I agree with Nick. Whereas I found the bifrost close overall to stagedac and eastern electric dacs with Meier concerto, vioolectric v100 or lyr as the amps, it fell behind when taboo entered the frame, sounding muddy and distant with harmonically complex material (e.g. Piano with dense chord structures). Either this was synergy, or taboo has much greater resolution and transparency. Either way...
> 
> Otoh, I've ordered the new 'uber' output board upgrade for the bifrost. It's based on the gungnir's output stage. Could be interesting.
> 
> ...


 
  Great, Thanks for the reply.  I will need to look into the Concero it seems.  I am also debating the Bifrost updates.  Waiting for some reviews on the update.


----------



## Argo Duck

My über board just shipped - likely two weeks to nz though. I have some very specific listening tests to repeat, three other dacs and an spl meter in the house. I'm keen to update my review, fwiw. Don't have a lot of spare time, but should be able to settle a few key points.

Judging by the Concero thread, it's a lot of dac for the money.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> My über board just shipped - likely two weeks to nz though. I have some very specific listening tests to repeat, three other dacs and an spl meter in the house. I'm keen to update my review, fwiw. Don't have a lot of spare time, but should be able to settle a few key points.
> 
> Judging by the Concero thread, it's a lot of dac for the money.


----------



## OPR8R

In case anyone was wondering, this is what the new Taboo looks like playing Mahler (5).  Sorry for the crappy mobile phone pic.
   

   
  Also, I didn't think I like the volume knob as much as I do, but I like it quite a bit.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> In case anyone was wondering, this is what the new Taboo looks like playing Mahler (5).  Sorry for the crappy mobile phone pic.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I didn't think I like the volume knob as much as I do, but I like it quite a bit.


 
  Very nice.  Mine is in QC testing now!!!  WOOHOO!!!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Very nice.  Mine is in QC testing now!!!  WOOHOO!!!


 
  Yay!


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Very nice.  Mine is in QC testing now!!!  WOOHOO!!!


 
  Ugh...mine is waiting for a base. I emailed them 2 weeks ago and they said that wouldn't be a problem.
   
  Hope they manage to get some made pretty soon.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Ugh...mine is waiting for a base. I emailed them 2 weeks ago and they said that wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Hope they manage to get some made pretty soon.


 
  Sorry.  Hang in there though.  It'll be worth the wait.


----------



## longbowbbs

It is great to see everyone either receiving their Taboo or watching it move up the chart!


----------



## dave1109

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and I've been thinking about 
  trying a tube amp for my lcd 2's, but want to make sure its a good 
  choice. Is there any other recommendations for a tube amp, I should
  check-out before getting the Taboo.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dave1109 said:


> I've been watching this thread for awhile now and I've been thinking about
> trying a tube amp for my lcd 2's, but want to make sure its a good
> choice. Is there any other recommendations for a tube amp, I should
> check-out before getting the Taboo.


 
   
  I have been using Burson Soloist (or Burson Conductor if you're after an all in one) with great success - it's a fantastic amp for the Audeze. Saying that, I also have an order on the Taboo, but have not heard it as I don't have that option.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





dave1109 said:


> I've been watching this thread for awhile now and I've been thinking about
> trying a tube amp for my lcd 2's, but want to make sure its a good
> choice. Is there any other recommendations for a tube amp, I should
> check-out before getting the Taboo.


 
  I ran the lcd2's with the woo audio wa2 but it was a poor match.
  Of course the wa2 wasn't built with the lcd2's in mind.
   
  Having said that I have read somewhere on headfi about others 
  enjoying the woo audio wa6-se and the lcd2's


----------



## jeust0999

I want this amp so badly. Decware amps look incredible.


----------



## Argo Duck

dave1109, it's impossible to be certain giving different preferences and ears, but Taboo II - the one replaced by the III - is definitely a good choice IMO, and it seems clear the III is only better.

Have you checked out Frank I's original Taboo thread?

As you'll know from the LCD2-amp thread, DefQon thinks highly of the LD Mk 6 (IIRC?) amp.

One of our group recently migrated to the Eddie Current Balancing Act, describing it as "beautiful". Near 3 x the price though :eek:

I guess the most useful thing to say is the advantage of tube-amps is you can tune them to suit you. Taboo is one of the more tuneable IMO. One can achieve neutral, or different kinds of emphasis as desired. Uber-expensive tubes not required.


----------



## Duckman

I saw Frank's review had a quick mention of the LCD3.
   
  Any Taboo III owners out there using the LCD3 also? Wondering about your impressions.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I saw Frank's review had a quick mention of the LCD3.
> 
> Any Taboo III owners out there using the LCD3 also? Wondering about your impressions.


 
  There may be someone with that combo, but there are only about 25 of the Taboo MK III's in the wild now....


----------



## Landmantx

I can't speak from experience as I do not own the LCD2 or 3, but I would think that the Audezes would benefit from the 2 different lucid modes' soundstage expansion. I am sure that they sound great on it, as that is the headphone used by steve to create the MK3 Taboo.


----------



## OPR8R

I decided to upgrade my Headroom Micro DAC so I yesterday morning (after months of research and contemplation), I ordered a Wyred4Sound DAC-2.  Wyred4Sound is a couple hours from where I live so I expected it to arrive soon- like Monday or Tuesday if all went well.  Well, I was wrong.  I'm listening to it now.  Talk about speedy service.
   
  The Wyred4Sound DAC-2 works well with the Decware Taboo MKIII.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I decided to upgrade my Headroom Micro DAC so I yesterday morning (after months of research and contemplation), I ordered a Wyred4Sound DAC-2.  Wyred4Sound is a couple hours from where I live so I expected it to arrive soon- like Monday or Tuesday if all went well.  Well, I was wrong.  I'm listening to it now.  Talk about speedy service.
> 
> The Wyred4Sound DAC-2 works well with the Decware Taboo MKIII.


 
  I do love the combination too! I am a big W4S DAC-2 fan!


----------



## Landmantx

I don't know if I will ever be able to convince myself to spend that much on a DAC, but it does sound like a beast! Congrats.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> I do love the combination too! I am a big W4S DAC-2 fan!


 
   
  I expected to have to suffer through hours of harshness while it burns in.  Right out of the box it's smoother than my last DAC.  This thing is supposed to get better with a few hundred hours?  I'm already glad I went for it.
   
  Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I don't know if I will ever be able to convince myself to spend that much on a DAC, but it does sound like a beast! Congrats.


 
   
  For months I wondered that about myself.  I guess I know now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I hope you don't suffer the same fate.


----------



## Argo Duck

I understand the w4s has some drive and energy? Unlike the more deadpan anedio i've 99% decided on. Good to hear it matches the taboo


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I understand the w4s has some drive and energy? Unlike the more deadpan anedio i've 99% decided on. Good to hear it matches the taboo


 
   
  Thanks  Yeah, it's a bit noisy out right now, but the first thing that occurred to me was a wider soundstage than with the Headroom DAC.  There are a couple of other niggling little things that the W4S has seemed to cleared up as well.


----------



## Landmantx

I finally broke down and plugged my rather tame Polk Monitor 60's into the ole Taboo MK3 and CSP combo. I can say with pretty good confidence that with an efficient speaker this amp can fill a large room. 

My listening space is 20x18X8 and with those poor little polks I can get it to a room filling volume at 75% volume. 

Can't wait to get some efficient speakers with a bit of bass. I am having to fill in the holes of the monitor 60s with my sub from the CSP pre-out.

Needless to say, I am a super happy camper. The Tekton order is going to happen soon I believe. 

My Peachtree Dac*it has a connection issue and keeps slipping into mono if the cord isnt at just the right angle. I may be sending it back


----------



## Landmantx

By the way, they sounded the best they ever have (not saying a lot).


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> By the way, they sounded the best they ever have (not saying a lot).


 
  Fun fun!


----------



## longbowbbs

I am using my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 as the Pre-Amp atm so I can use the wireless remote for the speakers. It works great with the Taboo volume at max and the W4S in control.
   
  BTW, Jazzerdave, I have a air of DM945's on order.....


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am using my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 as the Pre-Amp atm so I can use the wireless remote for the speakers. It works great with the Taboo volume at max and the W4S in control.
> 
> BTW, Jazzerdave, I have a air of DM945's on order.....


 
  I thought about doing the same but then I realized that won't work because I switch between DAC and Phono on the Taboo.  I can imagine myself forgetting to turn the volume down on the amp and killing my eardrums.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am using my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 as the Pre-Amp atm so I can use the wireless remote for the speakers. It works great with the Taboo volume at max and the W4S in control.
> 
> BTW, Jazzerdave, I have a air of DM945's on order.....


 
   
  Congrats man!  I hope you enjoy them.
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I thought about doing the same but then I realized that won't work because I switch between DAC and Phono on the Taboo.  I can imagine myself forgetting to turn the volume down on the amp and killing my eardrums.


 
   
  You could always get a switching box.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Congrats man!  I hope you enjoy them.
> 
> You could always get a switching box.


 
  How does that work?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The big drawback of the DAC-2 as Pre-amp is that it does not have any RCA analog inputs...This was just for fun. Old school meets new school....


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I thought about doing the same but then I realized that won't work because I switch between DAC and Phono on the Taboo.  I can imagine myself forgetting to turn the volume down on the amp and killing my eardrums.


 
  OPR8R,
   
  In case you aren't aware, the Taboo III has input level adjustments for both inputs. You can independently adjust the input level of your DAC-2 and phono preamp. I use my Taboo III for phono and DAC-2 and it works just fine as long as you have a sufficiently high output from each source device to drive the Taboo III to full output, otherwise you might need a CSP+. No need to worry about "killing ... eardrums."


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> How does that work?


 
   
  It's just a box with multiple inputs and one or two outputs so that you can add multiple inputs to an amp that only has only has one.  Mapletree Audio makes them.  You can also find them from Goldpoint, Luxman and other sources.  It's far from a perfect solution, but it's not the worst idea in the world.  You'd plug both your DAC and Phono Stage into the switch box (or line router if you'd prefer that term) and then plug the box into the Taboo.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> It's just a box with multiple inputs and one or two outputs so that you can add multiple inputs to an amp that only has only has one.  Mapletree Audio makes them.  You can also find them from Goldpoint, Luxman and other sources.  It's far from a perfect solution, but it's not the worst idea in the world.  You'd plug both your DAC and Phono Stage into the switch box (or line router if you'd prefer that term) and then plug the box into the Taboo.


 
  Decware also has one, The Zen Switch-box. $279  Was just looking at it thinking it might come in handy.


  with a choice of knobs...and other choices...


----------



## OPR8R

I hadn't considered trying to use the input level adjustments on the Taboo to get around this problem.
   
  Decware has a switchbox too?  Great.  My next order will be one of everything.
   
  Thanks, everyone.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> My next order will be one of everything.


 
   
  It sure seems to be working out that way for me!


----------



## Landmantx

Tell me about it. I was looking at the mystery amp thread at the decware site, and I am so jonesing for that amp. It looks like it would be a great endgame amp for the pendragons. Oh well, I am still saving up for the Dragons and I am already on to the next thing


----------



## Argo Duck

^ My money was on Donnie's suggestion of the world's first high-fidelity tube-based cell-phone. Gutted to find out it's just another amp :-D


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet!!! They have 9 products in the shipping department 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, My Taboo is not one of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, though it will be breaking onto page one soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also order one of the switch boxes.  Will need it for all the testing coming up...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now went from "Testing QC" to "Testing"...


----------



## Landmantx

I need more time to enjoy my MK3. I hate being so busy.


----------



## mwindham08

I think mine is gonna arrive right in the middle of finals....blah


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I need more time to enjoy my MK3. I hate being so busy.


 
  There's never enough Taboo time.  I've been choosing it over sleep.  It's the only way.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> There's never enough Taboo time.  I've been choosing it over sleep.  It's the only way.


 
   
  That's what I love to read! Now only if the next few weeks would zoom by so I get closer to the top of that list.


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> That's what I love to read! Now only if the next few weeks would zoom by so I get closer to the top of that list.



 
 I'm a little embarrassed to say, but I used to check the list multiple times a day. Even then, the waiting period went by quicker than I thought. It'll be worth the wait, just like waiting for the tubes to warm up


----------



## mwindham08

I can't get mine out of "waiting for a base". They told me they got me in yesterday
   
  and other orders with the same type wood have already been completed.
   
  Not sure why mine is being held in limbo


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I'm a little embarrassed to say, but I used to check the list multiple times a day. Even then, the waiting period went by quicker than I thought. It'll be worth the wait, just like waiting for the tubes to warm up


 
   
  We're both embarassed then.  I had that email to wind me up a couple of days ago: Your order has been updated to: New. Gee thanks! They still had me with it, I had to refresh.
  Tubes warming up, now we're talking. I figured that on the side, I shall be surfing a certain bay for some of the finer quality stuff. I could be easily persuaded towards any recommendations for any "must haves" from folks here.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote:


mwindham08 said:


> I can't get mine out of "waiting for a base". They told me they got me in yesterday
> 
> and other orders with the same type wood have already been completed.
> 
> Not sure why mine is being held in limbo


 
  That hurts.  It seems like the list has fits and starts, and I've seen some of those base people waiting a while.  But take heart, in the end, it was faster than expected.
   
   


negura said:


> We're both embarassed then.  I had that email to wind me up a couple of days ago: Your order has been updated to: New. Gee thanks! They still had me with it, I had to refresh.
> Tubes warming up, now we're talking. I figured that on the side, I shall be surfing a certain bay for some of the finer quality stuff. I could be easily persuaded towards any recommendations for any "must haves" from folks here.


 
   
  After about 3 weeks, I feel like the stock tubes are settling.  I'll be ready to start rolling soon.  I think the first place I'll start is with the rectifier (Phillips 5R4GYS).  Seems pretty easy to find, and reviews are pretty good.  Really though, I like the sound of the stock tubes more than I thought I would.


----------



## bearFNF

SWEET!!! I went from "testing" on page 2 to "Shipping department" and moved to on page one in one day...not long now.


----------



## mwindham08

bearfnf said:


> SWEET!!! I went from "testing" on page 2 to "Shipping department" and moved to on page one in one day...not long now.  :atsmile:




Finally me too!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Finally me too!


 
   
  Grats - the long wait is almost over. 
  You guys are tempting me to hit refresh... again for today!


----------



## mwindham08

negura said:


> Grats - the long wait is almost over.
> You guys are tempting me to hit refresh... again for today!




Don't do it!


----------



## bearFNF

F5 key is loosing its printing and springyness, may need to be replaced soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  deep breath, count to ten...patience...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have another glass and/or bottle of whiskey.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> F5 key is loosing its printing and springyness, may need to be replaced soon...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No prob...Hop on the car and make that quick 4 hour drive to Best Buy....


----------



## longbowbbs

BTW, I freakin' Love the Taboo MK III
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You may all return to your discussions!


----------



## bearFNF

Hey, what would you think of me using my Asgard 2 as the pre-amp into the Taboo?  Do I even need to?
   
  Or did I ask that already? Geez getting old sucks...


----------



## longbowbbs

This is a hobby....Try it and see what you like....


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> BTW, I freakin' Love the Taboo MK III
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Dude, you and I both.  I look forward to spending time with it everyday.  I have a new rectifier coming Tuesday.  I'm sending my headphone cable to have it re-terminated (balanced).  All for my baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I love it so much I'm considering getting back on the waiting list for a ZP3.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Dude, you and I both.  I look forward to spending time with it everyday.  I have a new rectifier coming Tuesday.  I'm sending my headphone cable to have it re-terminated (balanced).  All for my baby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There's a ZP3 on eBay right now (along with a Mini Torii and a Torii Mk3).


----------



## jazzerdave

I should note that the prices are relatively high for the Buy it Now, but there the option to make an offer.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I should note that the prices are relatively high for the Buy it Now, but there the option to make an offer.


 
  Interesting.  Good luck to the seller.  I'll go for a  new model with the full warranty.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> This is a hobby....Try it and see what you like....


 
  Was planning on it, we'll see what shakes out in the end...


----------



## mwindham08

bearfnf said:


> Was planning on it, we'll see what shakes out in the end...:bigsmile_face:




Is today gonna be the day?!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> BTW, I freakin' Love the Taboo MK III
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Drool.
   
   


mwindham08 said:


> Is today gonna be the day?!


   


  Drum roll. And a good excuse for me to press F5 (for the first time in 3 days!!!)
   
  Later edit: GRATS!


----------



## Landmantx

I love my MK3 as well!!! I am finding myself using it with my crappy Polk Audio speakers a whole lot. This is sooooo soooo much more than just a great headphone amp. Makes me anxious to get some great speakers to pair with it. The HD800s seem to like the Taboo pretty well. I am glad also I have the CSP to give me even more options. 

I really wish I had some more tube experience to know what to do there. I will probably just do a whole lot of experimenting at some point. It sounds so good as it is, I have a hard time believing it could be a whole lot better. 

I haven't even thought of the Mad Dogs in a while, so they will probably not be on my purchase list for a while now. The speakers will have to come next. 

I can't tell you guys how happy I am to be a part of this great forum and to be a Decware owner. It is a joy that very few people are able to experience. I tried to get on the AVS forum to discuss the Tekton Pendragons and promptly got run off by a bunch of audio snobs who have never even heard the speakers they are trashing. They even trash the reviewers that have talked nicely of the speakers. The people here seem to be way more constructive.


----------



## mwindham08

Shipped! Or at least they have billed me and I'm off the list.
   
  Do they provide tracking information? I have not received any.
   
  Edit: NM I jumped the gun, they just sent me tracking information.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Shipped! Or at least they have billed me and I'm off the list.
> 
> Do they provide tracking information? I have not received any.
> 
> Edit: NM I jumped the gun, they just sent me tracking information.


 
  you should get UPS later today if they billed you. thats usually the way it works


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Shipped! Or at least they have billed me and I'm off the list.
> 
> Do they provide tracking information? I have not received any.
> 
> Edit: NM I jumped the gun, they just sent me tracking information.



 
 Yay!!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Is today gonna be the day?!


 
  Apparently not for me, still on the list but moved up a few.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Apparently not for me, still on the list but moved up a few.


 
  I can't imagine that if it doesn't go out today, it will tomorrow. 
   
  They had a fair number of people ready to ship


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I can't imagine that if it doesn't go out today, it will tomorrow.
> 
> They had a fair number of people ready to ship


 
  I'll be holding my breath till then...heh,


----------



## negura

Ok, let's add some sauce to try and ease the waiting. How about speakers, folks? Do we know whether the Taboo MK3 will honestly drive the DM945, or even better, the MG944? If I want something that works in a smallish living room, what are some of the options out there?
   
  I am of course going to be using a good preamp, likely the one in my Burson Conductor or part of a new DAC.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Ok, let's add some sauce to try and ease the waiting. How about speakers, folks? Do we know whether the Taboo MK3 will honestly drive the DM945, or even better, the MG944? If I want something that works in a smallish living room, what are some of the options out there?
> 
> I am of course going to be using a good preamp, likely the one in my Burson Conductor or part of a new DAC.


 
  No problem with the DM945....I have a pair on order too..... I loved the sound of the combo with the CSP2+ as the Pre-amp.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No problem with the DM945....I have a pair on order too..... I loved the sound of the combo with the CSP2+ as the Pre-amp.


 
  Is a preamp necessary to drive speakers or can you just use Source > DAC > Taboo > Speakers?


----------



## longbowbbs

Steve, you could do that too. The Taboo does have the capacity to be an Integrated amp.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No problem with the DM945....I have a pair on order too..... I loved the sound of the combo with the CSP2+ as the Pre-amp.


 
   
  Decisions, decisions...
  Would the MG944 be worthwhile as well? Did anyone get the chance to hear them?


----------



## Landmantx

My floorstanding Polks are not very efficient and the taboo drives them to a louder volume than I really care to listen to them. I ran it without the sub from the CSP pre-out and I was still satisfied. The MG944s are way more efficient than my Polk Monitor 60s. They will get loud enough to fill a pretty good sized room with quality sound I would imagine. Now, when I get the Pendragons..... The walls will probably shake.


----------



## Landmantx

I haven't tried it without the CSP yet though. I may experiment for you.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The MG944's work great too...Steve mentioned they may not be available for too much longer.


----------



## bearFNF

Holy Cats!!! It's shipped!!!  Got a flurry of emails today and then at the end got a tracking number...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












   
  S'posed to be here Friday...we'll see if they can get it way up here to the booney's I live in by then.
   
  May,,cough cough..have to..cough..take the day off..cough..think I'm comin' down with something.


----------



## mwindham08

bearfnf said:


> Holy Cats!!! It's shipped!!!  Got a flurry of emails today and then at the end got a tracking number... :eek:
> 
> S'posed to be here Friday...we'll see if they can get it way up here to the booney's I live in by then.
> 
> May,,cough cough..have to..cough..take the day off..cough..think I'm comin' down with something.  :veryevil: :blink: :evil:




You may get lucky and get it sooner. 
Mine was supposed to arrive Thursday but UPS says it will arrive tomorrow!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> You may get lucky and get it sooner.
> Mine was supposed to arrive Thursday but UPS says it will arrive tomorrow!


 
  F5 F5 F5 F5...heh


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> You may get lucky and get it sooner.
> Mine was supposed to arrive Thursday but UPS says it will arrive tomorrow!


 
  No sleep for you tonight then. That's what happened to me with the HD800s,  but I won't admit it to anyone!


----------



## mwindham08

negura said:


> No sleep for you tonight then. That's what happened to me with the HD800s,  but I won't admit it to anyone!




And on top of that I have my last final Thursday. 
My grade for that one probably dropped at least 10 points!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Holy Cats!!! It's shipped!!!  Got a flurry of emails today and then at the end got a tracking number...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You don't look well...Take 4 tubes and call me on Monday!


----------



## Llloyd

Any detailed impressions on TH-900 + Taboo?


----------



## OPR8R

Great amp, this Taboo Mk3.  I sent my LCD2 cable in to have it re-terminated.  When I plugged the stock cable into the Taboo, I was surprised to immediately find that I could perceive a difference between it and the Q cable.  I didn't expect much difference if any, but the stock cable is a bit veiled.  Who knew?  I could never really hear much difference before.  Anyway, I'm really excited to hear the difference between the single-ended cable and a balanced cable.
   
  Also, I got a Philips 5R4GYS yesterday.  So far so good, but I'll post more impressions in a week or two.
   
  This amp makes a fun hobby an incredible blast.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Great amp, this Taboo Mk3.  I sent my LCD2 cable in to have it re-terminated.  When I plugged the stock cable into the Taboo, I was surprised to immediately find that I could perceive a difference between it and the Q cable.  I didn't expect much difference if any, but the stock cable is a bit veiled.  Who knew?  I could never really hear much difference before.  Anyway, I'm really excited to hear the difference between the single-ended cable and a balanced cable.
> 
> Also, I got a Philips 5R4GYS yesterday.  So far so good, but I'll post more impressions in a week or two.
> 
> This amp makes a fun hobby an incredible blast.


 
   
  That's what happens with high-end components.  The more detailed and transparent gear is, you'll hear any changes, cables, power quality, even some software.
   
  On a side note, I came accross a deal and purchased a NOS Brimar 5R4GY. I've heard good things about it, but will be a few weeks until I get to hear it though. There's another one going for auction on eBay UK - no bidders yet.


----------



## mwindham08

Is it just me or does the taboo not get very loud?
   
  I have it hooked up to my dac which outputs 25volts.
   
  I pretty much have to leave new lucid mode switched to on for it to get anywhere near loud.
   
  Ive turned the volume on the dac and the amp all the way up, and the input level adjustments are all the way up.
   
  Stock tubes
   
  6.3 jack to Audeze LCD-2
   
   
  EDIT:COMPLETELY DISREGARD THIS POST.
   
  The Headphone jack was a little stiff and it was not plugged in all the way....I'm an idiot


----------



## mwindham08

New Lucid Mode + Led Zeppelin I-IV=Win


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Is it just me or does the taboo not get very loud?
> 
> I have it hooked up to my dac which outputs 25volts.
> 
> ...


 
  ROFL - Heh, been there done that. 
   
  My Taboo is in the same state as me now!! Only two days to get here unless they fly it across tonight.  F5 key is getting a workout.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I have it hooked up to my dac which outputs 25volts.


 
   
  Was that supposed to read 2.5 volts rather than 25 volts?
   
  se


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Was that supposed to read 2.5 volts rather than 25 volts?
> 
> se


 
  Yeah I meant 2.5 volts.
   
  That would be a pretty powerful DAC for the Taboo!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Yeah I meant 2.5 volts.
> 
> That would be a pretty powerful DAC for the Taboo!


 
   
  So how does it sound out of the box?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> That's what happens with high-end components.  The more detailed and transparent gear is, you'll hear any changes, cables, power quality, even some software.
> 
> On a side note, I came accross a deal and purchased a NOS Brimar 5R4GY. I've heard good things about it, but will be a few weeks until I get to hear it though. There's another one going for auction on eBay UK - no bidders yet.


 
   
  I guess you're right.  You start putting all these things together and you realize how much better these components/cables are than stock or normal.  Props to the two Steves (Eddy and Deckert).
   
  Let us know how the Brimar sounds, please


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Yeah I meant 2.5 volts.
> 
> That would be a pretty powerful DAC for the Taboo!


 
   
  Yeah, but I've seen some DACs with crazy output levels so didn't make the assumption you meant 2.5 volts.
   
  se


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Yeah, but I've seen some DACs with crazy output levels so didn't make the assumption you meant 2.5 volts.
> 
> se


 
   
  It's not a DAC, but the output of the CSP2+ is adjustable all the way up to 36V.  So yeah, I didn't assume 2.5V though I of course thought it was more likely.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





negura said:


> So how does it sound out of the box?


 
  The first thing I've noticed is a vastly expanded soundstage and improved clarity. 
   
  My Lucid switches are backward from what the manual says so that took me a little while to figure out.
   
  If the sound did not change at all over the next 200 hours I would still be more than satisfied.
   
  Not sure what the word is I'm looking for but my music sounds more three dimensional.
  It's much easier to place where instruments and voices are coming, ect.
   
  I have my last final tomorrow so I haven't got to spend as much time as I would like with it today.
  After a celebratory viewing of the new Star Trek movie tomorrow I plan to spend some real quality time with the Taboo.


----------



## Happy Bullets

I have taken quite an interest in the Decware amps recently and noticed there is a coupon code for two hundred dollars off the Taboo. Is this a common/steady discount or a rarity worth jumping on? Thanks in advance! - Paul


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I remember Steve said the intro $200 off pricing would be expiring soon, so I'd take advantage of it. Not common to get Decware discounts because they are already value priced IMHO.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I remember Steve said the intro $200 off pricing would be expiring soon, so I'd take advantage of it. Not common to get Decware discounts because they are already value priced IMHO.


 
   
  There's a timer saying it will expire in 14 days or so.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Gee, does that mean if it does not ship by then you have to pay the up charge?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (ducking and running!)


----------



## Francoy

No the coupon applies when you order. If you cancel your order an re-order at a later date, you might have to barter a bit to get $200 off again.


----------



## longbowbbs

I was kidding....


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Gee, does that mean if it does not ship by then you have to pay the up charge?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL


----------



## Landmantx

I keep falling asleep on my couch listening to the taboo. I wake up in the middle of the night and stumble to bed. Its becoming a new routine.


----------



## mwindham08

How long are you all leaving your Taboo on for?
   
  I know Steve says its okay to leave it on all the time but I usually just turn it off if I am
  not using it. 
   
  I'm contemplating leaving it on all the time for a few days to get some burn in going on.


----------



## negura

mwindham08 said:


> How long are you all leaving your Taboo on for?
> 
> I know Steve says its okay to leave it on all the time but I usually just turn it off if I am
> not using it.
> ...




That's what I am doing during burn-in with any components: 24/7, but on low volume when not around to listen. I sure hope the Taboo won't mind it.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I keep falling asleep on my couch listening to the taboo. I wake up in the middle of the night and stumble to bed. Its becoming a new routine.


 
  +1
   
  Every night.
   
   


mwindham08 said:


> How long are you all leaving your Taboo on for?
> 
> I know Steve says its okay to leave it on all the time but I usually just turn it off if I am
> not using it.
> ...


 
   
  I turn mine on and play music through it (on about level 6) when I get home from work, even though I won't listen for a few hours.  I don't turn it off until I go to bed.  Trying to get miles on the V-Caps.


----------



## bearFNF

Camped out at home waiting for the big brown truck...but I have a meeting this afternoon so hopefully he shows up before I have to go back.
   
  It's a day early, too!!!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Camped out at home waiting for the big brown truck...but I have a meeting this afternoon so hopefully he shows up before I have to go back.
> 
> It's a day early, too!!!


 
  Good day


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Camped out at home waiting for the big brown truck...but I have a meeting this afternoon so hopefully he shows up before I have to go back.
> 
> It's a day early, too!!!


 
  Take you time opening it up and enjoy the moment...


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Take you time opening it up and enjoy the moment...


 
  LOL.  I took pictures of each step, just so that I could remember the moment later.  This Decware process is sure fun.  I mean all the way from watching yourself go up the list, to listening to your new equipment break in.  I'm going to have to get back on that list soon...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I did the same thing..Steve actually posted a couple of my Unboxing pics in the Decware site!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I did the same thing..Steve actually posted a couple of my Unboxing pics in the Decware site!


 
  He should think about hiring you for his marketing dept.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> LOL.  I took pictures of each step, just so that I could remember the moment later.  This Decware process is sure fun.  I mean all the way from watching yourself go up the list, to listening to your new equipment break in.  I'm going to have to get back on that list soon...


 
  Haha I did the same thing!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> It's not a DAC, but the output of the CSP2+ is adjustable all the way up to 36V.  So yeah, I didn't assume 2.5V though I of course thought it was more likely.


 
   
  At 36 volts, about all you'd need at that point is a power buffer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## longbowbbs

If the check cashes!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> If the check cashes!


 
   




   
  se


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OPR8R said I should get paid for marketing by Decware...
   
  BTW Decware fans. Steve is working on a new "Mystery" amp!
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1365130519/0


----------



## ushman

Just took the leap and bought a taboo...now for the wait


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ushman said:


> Just took the leap and bought a taboo...now for the wait


 
  Welcome to the club! Decware does have T-Shirts for $20....


----------



## Saraguie

longbowbbs said:


> Welcome to the club! Decware does have T-Shirts for $20....



I didn't get the other gear but I got the shirt.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I got the hat too....


----------



## mwindham08

longbowbbs said:


> I got the hat too....




I would never hear the end of it from my wife if I bought a decware hat! She already gives me a hard time about headphones


----------



## OPR8R

I tend not to wear t-shirts as a shirt (as opposed to an undershirt) but I'd go for one of these in a hoodie.


----------



## longbowbbs

They had a big box of both Hats and shirts but they are not listed on the website. Don't know why. I am a shirt and hat nut so I spotted them and Steve gave me the hat! What a great time that visit was.


----------



## OPR8R

Gonna get back on the list in a week or so...  I'm going to ask Steve to send me a hat with my order


----------



## bearFNF

Holy bubble wrap batman!!! There was a lot of bubble wrap in that box, couldn't get it all back in after I got the amp out.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  coming up for air...Sweet!!!  The Taboo is pretty nice with the HD800's.  I am finding some issues with other gear (noise from laptop, noise floor on Asgard 2 as pre-amp set-up) and my HE500 (weird ringing intermittently when lucid mode is turned off)... will need more time to sort this all out.  that Switch box I have on order would definitely help with this compare I am doing.
   
  But lovin' it with HD800's which was the main reason I got it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Holy bubble wrap batman!!! There was a lot of bubble wrap in that box, couldn't get it all back in after I got the amp out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I felt the same way. How can I remove the amp and the box still won't hold all the bubble wrap afterwards??


----------



## negura

bearfnf said:


> I am finding some issues with other gear (noise from laptop, noise floor on Asgard 2 as pre-amp set-up) and my HE500 (weird ringing intermittently when lucid mode is turned off)... will need more time to sort this all out.


 

   
  Noise from laptop, if it's not software related, could be some dirty power into your USB if that's what your using. I found the use of a good USB interface that doesn't use the USB power doing miracles for the SQ.
   
  And surely look forward for more impressions on the Taboo. The HD800s are my no1 favourite headphones. 
   
  Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> I felt the same way. How can I remove the amp and the box still won't hold all the bubble wrap afterwards??


 
   
  Bring it on! As it turns out I make enough irrational purchases that I have to eBay aftewards there's never too much bubble wrap in this house LOL.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> bearfnf said:
> 
> 
> > I am finding some issues with other gear (noise from laptop, noise floor on Asgard 2 as pre-amp set-up) and my HE500 (weird ringing intermittently when lucid mode is turned off)... will need more time to sort this all out.
> ...


 
   
  It can be a great stress reducer....pop pop!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It can be a great stress reducer....pop pop!


 
   
  Yes, unless it's always someone else beating you to it.


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, the noise on the laptop is from the power brick/charging circuit, unplug it and the noise goes away.
   
  Just tried my Grado SR352is on it and they sound awesome, too.
   
  And yeah, one of the smaller panels of bubble wrap died a noisy death...


----------



## longbowbbs

I am enjoying the Taboo with an old pair of SVS monitors....Nice!


----------



## bearFNF

Oh snap, I just remembered I have some Snell MKII's in my closet.  Wonder if they would work on the Taboo?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Oh snap, I just remembered I have some Snell MKII's in my closet.  Wonder if they would work on the Taboo?


 
  Grab some wire and find out!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Grab some wire and find out!


 
  Yeah, so that worked? kinda, had to turn the amp up pretty far to get a reasonable level.


----------



## longbowbbs

Well, I do have the CSP2+ in the chain as well. It does a better job than the speakers. They are fin at less than 20% of power. More than that and the speakers distort. I am patiently waiting for the DM945's...Still on Page 5.......


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Yeah, so that worked? kinda, had to turn the amp up pretty far to get a reasonable level.


 
   
  Out of curiosity what's the sensitivity with those speakers? I understand this is key with the Taboo.


----------



## bearFNF

According to Stereophile.com:
*Desrcription: Snell type K/II -  *Two-way, sealed-box, stand-mounted, dynamic loudspeaker. Driver complement: one 8" polypropylene-cone woofer, one 1" treated textile-dome tweeter. Crossover frequency: 2.7kHz, third-order slopes. Frequency response (measured in an anechoic chamber and corrected for half-space): 70–20kHz ±2dB. Sensitivity: *90dB 1W/1m *(anechoic). Recommended amplifier power: 10–100W. Nominal impedance: 6 ohms.
   
  So looks like it needs at least 10W which is not the Taboo.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> According to Stereophile.com:
> *Desrcription: Snell type K/II -  *Two-way, sealed-box, stand-mounted, dynamic loudspeaker. Driver complement: one 8" polypropylene-cone woofer, one 1" treated textile-dome tweeter. Crossover frequency: 2.7kHz, third-order slopes. Frequency response (measured in an anechoic chamber and corrected for half-space): 70–20kHz ±2dB. Sensitivity: *90dB 1W/1m *(anechoic). Recommended amplifier power: 10–100W. Nominal impedance: 6 ohms.
> 
> So looks like it needs at least 10W which is not the Taboo.


 
   
  Yeah, 94-96dB+ they say I think. My intention is to also get some speakers for the Taboo. However it's not very likely they will be Decware. 5m+ wait, 300-500 USD shipping to the UK (for speakers) + 25% various taxes on top of final price and shipping, probably going to pass. 
   
  Klipsch have quite a few very high sensitivty speakers, but not sure how they sound. For example, this one is a 101 dB: http://www.klipsch.com/rf-7-ii-floorstanding-speaker


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Raz, I would try the Heresy's. I would expect that to be a nice match with the Taboo....


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Raz, I would try the Heresy's. I would expect that to be a nice match with the Taboo....


 
   
  Oh yeah, that looks good from what I am reading and not too expensive. Somehow I've previously missed it. It looked like a sub to me.


----------



## bearFNF

Well, back in the closet they go for another ten years...I'm happy with the headphones...
   
  Still gotta figure out the HE500 issue,  more testing to be done. HEY, maybe the impedence is causing the ringing with lucid mode turned off?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Just tried my Grado SR352is on [the Taboo MKIII] and they sound awesome, too.


 
   
  They sure do! I loved the Grado SR225i's on the Taboo MKII... just splendid. Made better still with Lucid Mode...
   
  ...but not the HD800's. Bad match there.
   
  Still need to do a CSP2+ vs MKIII audition. Likely to happen in 3 weeks at the Dallas meet.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> They sure do! I loved the Grado SR225i's on the Taboo MKII... just splendid. Made better still with Lucid Mode...
> 
> ...but not the HD800's. Bad match there.
> 
> Still need to do a CSP2+ vs MKIII audition. Likely to happen in 3 weeks at the Dallas meet.


 
  Yep, for me so far the MKIII likes the HD800's and the SR325is, workin' through something on the HE500's not quite the best match there. Oh yeah, I forgot to try the HD650's, they'll be next up on the test sequence.


----------



## snapontom

I have the heresy 3's .   I bought them as new seconds off ebay.  Small chip in the veneer.  I am happy with them.  They are fast, clear, and range down to 56 Hz.  Later I added a powered sub that has a volume control and a variable crossover. I run the sub from the CSP2+.   I like the sound of the heresys best at ear level.  The sound is right there at the speaker, it doesn't shout, which is an attribute of the Taboo MK2 I think.  The MKIII has 4 wpc and mine has 6.  the heresy speakers are at 99 dB at one watt.  and 102 dB max.  thats loud.


----------



## audiosceptic

I received my Taboo III a few weeks ago and still playing around to figure out if I like this or not. I like the new lucid mode but am noticing hum when it is turned on through my LCD-2 REV1.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





audiosceptic said:


> I received my Taboo III a few weeks ago and still playing around to figure out if I like this or not. I like the new lucid mode but am noticing hum when it is turned on through my LCD-2 REV1.


 
   
   
  Give Decware a call.  There shouldn't be any hum.


----------



## mwindham08

I like the lucid mode with some songs but it really reduces the volume which limits my use.


----------



## HPDJ

Audiosceptic,

How is the new Taboo holding up against your Consonance M10S??

I don't think I'm hearing any hum with the new Lucid Mode either....my experience with it is a mixed bag thus far but that's the nature if that beast. Nice to be able to switch it on and off on the fly. My Taboo is about a week old so I'm gonna give it some more time before I write some detailed impressions....its been fun (for the most part) thus far


----------



## HPDJ

I find the new Lucid mode to _increase_ the volume, prompting me to reach for the volume knob and lower it a notch or 2, to make it a similar volume to the old Lucid mode. Its mostly because its bringing sounds from the background to the forefront. Sounds that are in the left and right channels..


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> I find the new Lucid mode to _increase_ the volume, prompting me to reach for the volume knob and lower it a notch or 2, to make it a similar volume to the old Lucid mode. Its mostly because its bringing sounds from the background to the forefront. Sounds that are in the left and right channels..


 
  I thought it was that way too till I switched out the tubes.
  Once I switched out the stock tube I couldn't hear passages of certain songs when the switch was flipped towards what I thought was regular stereo. 
  I guess my taboo switches were wired the opposite way?


----------



## mmlogic

Quote: 





audiosceptic said:


> I received my Taboo III a few weeks ago and still playing around to figure out if I like this or not. I like the new lucid mode but am noticing hum when it is turned on through my LCD-2 REV1.


 
  My Taboo III has hum too when I turn on the new lucid mode.
  Barely noticeable with LCD2, but very annoying with PS1000.
  In fact, if paired with PS1000, the hum is noticeable even when both lucid mode are off.


----------



## Frank I

For those interested the WA7 review is Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies DAC Headphone Amplifier Review


----------



## HPDJ

When I'm listening with the single ended headphone output, and I'm facing the front of the amp, the lucid mode switches are NOT engaged when they are AWAY from me (as the manual dictates)...when both lucid modes are off the soundstage is VERY small and, yes, I'm hearing that some sounds are missing....particularly those sounds located in the left and right channels. When I turn on original lucid mode the sounds that were missing are audible again and the soundstage is wide. When I turn on NEW lucid mode the information on the right and left channels becomes more pronounced and can sometimes take over the sounds coming from the center of the soundstage...like vocals or horns etc.

I received a balanced cable from Audeze the other day and I'm getting different results with both lucid modes thus far. First off the soundstage seems to be "normal" to me with NONE of the lucid modes on. Seems close to what I used to hear with the mini torii. When I turn old lucid mode on, the soundstage increases slightly...in a very pleasant way that I find I like most of the time. This is in contrast to using the single ended headphone jack where I feel like the old lucid mode is A MUST because otherwise I'm not hearing everything the recording has to offer and the soundstage is just way too small.....like I'm in the last row of a concert hall.

With new lucid mode using the balanced output (4 pin btw) the sounds becomes bigger and closer in a way....like I'm in the front row or maybe even on the stage....depending on the recording. The volume jump does not seem to be as dramatic with new lucid mode balanced, as compared to the volume jump in single ended output..

Some more experimenting is to be done....I'll try to post some more specifics, like which songs I'm using to evaluate and how it sounds with each mode, at a later date...

Oh also, I have a bad tube...one of the output tubes, so i stole a pair of Mullard EL84 from my guitar amp and that's been holding me down....until i can get a replacement pair from Decware...shouldn't be a big issue.....the nice thing about the meters is that I could see one tube was reading WAY stronger than the other....actually past what Steve suggested was a safe place for the meters to be. Then the offending tube made a horrible noise through my speakers (crackling, hiss etc). That's when I switched it out. The meters showed the problem a couple days before the bad noise occurred...


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





frank i said:


> For those interested the WA7 review is Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies DAC Headphone Amplifier Review


 
  Nice job, Frank.  Sounds like you really appreciated the Woo one-stop solution, even if the DAC is a step behind.  And I think you correctly pointed out the GOOD deal that this is at the price.  It helps people who are in the market search out solutions that might work for them, so it's a great thing you're doing to help the community.
   
  Since this is a Taboo thread, perhaps you should say something here about how you think the Woo stacks up against your Taboo III.  Relative strengths/weaknesses of each? 
   
  Your review was consistent with my VERY brief impression of the Woo 7 with my LCD-2.1's:  it has a really nice, sweet midrange and very rich sounding, but maybe lacking a bit of air.  Of course I listened back-to-back with the Bryston BHA-1 which stressed my brain.  The two are exactly the opposite with my cans, with the Bryston being open, airy, crisp and detailed, but lacking as much body and soul in the midrange.  But we listened to a lot of gear that day, and certainly not critically, since it was in a small-group meet.
   
  Good luck with your new reviewer gig.  To me, sounds like an immense time-sink.  It really does take some extended listening to lock in on what a piece of gear really sounds like.  I like how you've used a variety of different headphones, IEM's, etc. to look at synergies and better understand the true character. 
   
  Of course, you have to keep in mind great reviewing caution...  "writing about music is like dancing about architecture".   I'm sure you'll continue to improve at translating what you hear into language that those of us who haven't heard can correctly anticipate what it sounds like.  Good luck and have fun!
   
  Frank


----------



## Frank I

Thanks Frank for the kind word. The Taboo MK 111 is  dedicated amplifier only and has more power but the biggest difference in the two would be the Taboo had more transparency. It has a fuller sound with more air and body. The sound stage is wider and deeper than The WA7 but for people looking for a one amp solution the Wa7 is an excellent solution.  I will also try to do a bette job of explaining my music choices in my next review.  The improvement with the Taboo Mk111 is also subtle differences. The WA7 was great with all headphone I used and the Taboo takes the performance up another notch.    The biggest difference was in the treble. The Taboo had a much more extended treble with a more live feel to it. Drum cymbals sound more like real live cymbals. The air around the instruments is also better. There is a pinpoint focus with each instrument on the Taboo and better separation within  the sound stage. Both excellent products that perform well above their price points.


----------



## bearFNF

Here's my setup.  Still a work in progress, need to get a ZSB  in and then clear some space for the whole lot to live on a set of shelves.


Spoiler: Pics%20of%20my%20rig.



 
  Taboo MKIII and 'Q' French Silk cable


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Here's my setup.  Still a work in progress, need to get a ZSB  in and then clear some space for the whole lot to live on a set of shelves.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics%20of%20my%20rig.
> ...


 
   
  Looks really great. I thought I'm the only with red HD800s cables.  Mine are DIY. What I would love to see is a close-up pic of just the Taboo from straight above, with the inputs, meters and all, so I can have something to drool at, while waiting.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





negura said:


> Looks really great. I thought I'm the only with red HD800s cables.  Mine are DIY. What I would love to see is a close-up pic of just the Taboo from straight above, with the inputs, meters and all, so I can have something to drool at, while waiting.


 
  Gimme a couple minutes and I'll snap a few.
   


Spoiler: Here%20ya%20go.



 
  Pics of Taboo (Cherry wood case).


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Here's my setup.  Still a work in progress, need to get a ZSB  in and then clear some space for the whole lot to live on a set of shelves.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics%20of%20my%20rig.
> ...


 
   
  Congrats Bear! There are now 2 Taboo MK III's in the great North Woods!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats Bear! There are now 2 Taboo MK III's in the great North Woods!


 





   
  I just noticed in the pics that one tube is a little higher than the other on the meter.  Since I am a noob when it comes to tubes, how far off can they be before I need to be concerned?  If I were to use my 'calibrated' engineers eye I would say one reads 25 and the other reads 29.  All depends on how you hold your head, squint your eye, and stick your tongue out.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> When I'm listening with the single ended headphone output, and I'm facing the front of the amp, the lucid mode switches are NOT engaged when they are AWAY from me (as the manual dictates)...when both lucid modes are off the soundstage is VERY small and, yes, I'm hearing that some sounds are missing....particularly those sounds located in the left and right channels. When I turn on original lucid mode the sounds that were missing are audible again and the soundstage is wide. When I turn on NEW lucid mode the information on the right and left channels becomes more pronounced and can sometimes take over the sounds coming from the center of the soundstage...like vocals or horns etc.
> 
> I received a balanced cable from Audeze the other day and I'm getting different results with both lucid modes thus far. First off the soundstage seems to be "normal" to me with NONE of the lucid modes on. Seems close to what I used to hear with the mini torii. When I turn old lucid mode on, the soundstage increases slightly...in a very pleasant way that I find I like most of the time. This is in contrast to using the single ended headphone jack where I feel like the old lucid mode is A MUST because otherwise I'm not hearing everything the recording has to offer and the soundstage is just way too small.....like I'm in the last row of a concert hall.
> 
> ...


 
  You have pretty much described my experience thus far, especially about the left and right channels being very pronounced.
  I guess I have been listening with New Lucid Mode on.
   
  Wish my 3 pin toxic cables would come in so I could experiment with the balanced outputs, but I still have at least another month to wait....blah


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Gimme a couple minutes and I'll snap a few.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great pics. Those nice caps for balanced/RCA ports - did you purchase them separately?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





negura said:


> Great pics. Those nice caps for balanced/RCA ports - did you purchase them separately?


 
   Thanks. 
   
  They came on the unit. Just need to get something for the 1/4" HP jack now.  Although, when using the XLR outputs I can set the XLR cap over the 1/4" plug, I want something dedicated for the purpose.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> You have pretty much described my experience thus far, especially about the left and right channels being very pronounced.
> I guess I have been listening with New Lucid Mode on.
> 
> Wish my 3 pin toxic cables would come in so I could experiment with the balanced outputs, but I still have at least another month to wait....blah


 
  Ditto here, also. 
   
  I did notice that it is a little off center left, though.  Still testing this out but may need to adjust the input levels to compensate.  I think this may be due to my ears more than the amp (damage to one ear when I was young, _somehow,_ a bean got in my right ear and subsequent efforts to get it out pushed it against my eardrum and the bean started to swell, so it had to be surgically removed), I know, TMI, but I thought you guys could use a good laugh.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The input levels are there on purpose. Use them to adjust your preferred sonic signature.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The input levels are there on purpose. Use them to adjust your preferred sonic signature.


 
  Yeah the input levels won't fix the issues I'm having.
   
  One interesting thing I did note though is that when all the switches are off, and turning down the right input level has no effect at all on the sound
  unless one of the lucid switches are flipped on.
   
  This is on Green Grass & High Tides by The Outlaws.
  Have not tested any other songs yet.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have pretty much left it on Old Lucid mode. The pairing with the CSP2+ is wonderful!


----------



## OPR8R

My first week with the Taboo I learned to let my tubes warm up.  I also heard jitter and harsh highs for the first time.  Luckily, I had been planning a DAC upgrade, and it solved both problems.  I also haven't really touched the Lucid setting (old mode) since the first day.


----------



## HPDJ

OPR8R,
   
   


> I also haven't really touched the Lucid setting (old mode) since the first day


 
   
  Does this mean that you have kept it ON or OFF since the first day? Also, which headphone outputs are you using?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> OPR8R,
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that you have kept it ON or OFF since the first day? Also, which headphone outputs are you using?


 
  I keep Old Lucid turned ON (and New Lucid OFF).
   
  To my ears, the new mode sounds unnatural with most of the music to which I listen: like I'm always in a cathedral, except there's no echo.  The old mode sounds more or less natural.  For the last day or so, I've been using 4-pin XLR connector, but I thought old mode was the way to go with the single-ended connector as well.  It seems like a few people who have recently received their Taboo 3 prefer the new mode though, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## OPR8R

I just realized I hadn't really spent any time with Lucid mode settings with the balanced cable.  When I got my cable back from Steve (Eddy) I just plugged it in and went.  It sounded the way I expected, more open and detailed than the stock cable so I just kept listening, never touching the Lucid switches.
   
  I fiddled with Lucid modes for a few minutes, a few minutes ago.  It might be that a balanced cable (4-pin XLR) opens the soundstage of the Taboo to the point of sounding like the old Lucid mode, even with it in the off position.  New Lucid mode isn't as unnatural sounding, though I still prefer the sound of the old mode. I need to spend more than 5 hurried minutes, but I was a bit surprised by what I heard in my 5 minute experiment.


----------



## mwindham08

I've ordered audezes balanced cable as a quick fix till I get my toxic cable. 

II really want to enjoy the taboo without the lucid modes before I experiment with them.


----------



## Kendoji

Argh I'm really tempted to order one of these while the 200 USD discount is still going. I even have permission from my gf! I'm just dreading the long wait and the killer import taxes...

Does anyone have experience with it and the HE-500?


----------



## longbowbbs

I have not heard of anyone with a Taboo MK III owing the HE-500's yet. However, at 38 ohms, the HE-500 should match nicely with the Taboo. Remember it was designed with Planer's in mind.


----------



## Kendoji

Yep that's what I'm hoping!  And if it doesn't work out, I guess I'll just have to buy myself an LCD-3.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Yep that's what I'm hoping!  And if it doesn't work out, I guess I'll just have to buy myself an LCD-3.


 
   
  My theory is a really good amplifier that's tuned to be neutral should work well with any heapdhones. The advantage of a tube amp is that you can fine tune it to your sound preference with non-stock tubes.  I am still weeks away from confirming this with the Taboo though.


----------



## Kendoji

Ok so one more potentially silly question.  I have some decent (not expensive) little Monitor Audio BX2 speakers that are 90db (and 8 ohms).  Decware recommend 94db or higher, at least for 'large listening rooms'.  Considering that I won't ever need to play loud, do you folks think that the Taboo will play nicely with my speakers?
   
  LOL I almost finalised my order today but then got scared.  My poor bank account...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Ok so one more potentially silly question.  I have some decent (not expensive) little Monitor Audio BX2 speakers that are 90db (and 8 ohms).  Decware recommend 94db or higher, at least for 'large listening rooms'.  Considering that I won't ever need to play loud, do you folks think that the Taboo will play nicely with my speakers?
> 
> LOL I almost finalised my order today but then got scared.  My poor bank account...


 
  It played the 88DB Polks but not loud. I would recommend 94DB speakers for it to work properly. If you have a large room a 90DB speaker will not get loud at the Mk111 maxed out. I will be reviewing the Omega 3T with the Mk111.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Yep that's what I'm hoping!  And if it doesn't work out, I guess I'll just have to buy myself an LCD-3.


 
  Get them anyway to pair with the Taboo IMHO you won't be sorry


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Argh I'm really tempted to order one of these while the 200 USD discount is still going. I even have permission from my gf! I'm just dreading the long wait and the killer import taxes...
> 
> Does anyone have experience with it and the HE-500?


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have not heard of anyone with a Taboo MK III owing the HE-500's yet. However, at 38 ohms, the HE-500 should match nicely with the Taboo. Remember it was designed with Planer's in mind.


 
  I have the HE500's and have listened a little with it.  There is an issue with lucid mode turned off with a weird ringing.  It seems to work just fine with old and new mode turned on.  I have been mostly listening to my HD800's, though.  I will try to get some more time with the HE500's and see what I think.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I have the HE500's and have listened a little with it.  There is an issue with lucid mode turned off with a weird ringing.  It seems to work just fine with old and new mode turned on.  I have been mostly listening to my HD800's, though.  I will try to get some more time with the HE500's and see what I think.


 
   
  Is it quite normal the Taboo is a bit fiddly like that, as it seems there's a bit of confusion regarding wiring, switches, artifacts etc?
  Does it at least work properly when both Lucid modes are off?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





negura said:


> Is it quite normal the Taboo is a bit fiddly like that, as it seems there's a bit of confusion regarding wiring, switches, artifacts etc?
> Does it at least work properly when both Lucid modes are off?


 
  No, with both switches off is when I get the weird ringing at medium level, it goes away with either or both switches turned on.
  I prefer to have old lucid mode on, so it is not a huge issue.  I also am finding that I would listen at a lower level than when the noise starts, too.  So again, it is not a huge issue.


----------



## OPR8R

So, I've casually been looking for tubes to roll. I'm finding the nicer 6922 variants to be a bit pricey.  Like, I want to try one of those Amperex PQ's but they can be like $175 each!  Anyone have/try one of these?


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





negura said:


> Is it quite normal the Taboo is a bit fiddly like that, as it seems there's a bit of confusion regarding wiring, switches, artifacts etc?
> Does it at least work properly when both Lucid modes are off?


 
   
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> No, with both switches off is when I get the weird ringing at medium level, it goes away with either or both switches turned on.
> I prefer to have old lucid mode on, so it is not a huge issue.  I also am finding that I would listen at a lower level than when the noise starts, too.  So again, it is not a huge issue.


 
  Have you contacted Decware about the ringing? I'm getting a little anxious about the amp being 'fiddly'.
   
  I wonder if Steve or a rep from Decware monitor this thread? It would be really helpful for Q&As like in some of the other threads on HF.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Fiddley is a technical term.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So, here are the different "Fiddley" adjustments:
   
  1. Stock Tubes, 3 potential varieties to play with. 1 Rectifier, 1 Input tube, 2 output tube....Swap away!
  2. No Lucid Mode
  3. Old Lucid Mode
  4. New Lucid Mode
  5. Balanced plug
  6. Single Ended plug
   
  We are already at dozens of combinations to affect you personal sound signature. This both good and bad. With choice can come confusion! (or Nirvana!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  )
   
  Decware never monitors any forum other than the ones found on the Decware website. That way Steve has more time to make new amps...Like the new one he is in the middle of voicing....


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Fiddley is a technical term.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Got it, I thought fiddly = finicky.......Should have checked my tech dictionary first


----------



## dave1109

After a lot of research, I've decided on the Taboo.
 Placed my order and now the wait begins !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also during my research I found some info on tube tech,
 but didn't bookmark it, any links for learning
 about different tubes would be appreciated.


----------



## Kendoji

Quote: 





frank i said:


> It played the 88DB Polks but not loud. I would recommend 94DB speakers for it to work properly. If you have a large room a 90DB speaker will not get loud at the Mk111 maxed out. I will be reviewing the Omega 3T with the Mk111.


 
   
  Thanks Frank, that's good to know.   I was hoping to use the Taboo's ability to drive my speakers as extra justification for making the purchase.  Living in small Amsterdam apartments with poor sound isolation I still suspect that it might be loud enough on my 90db speakers for my needs, but I guess we're talking about more than just volume.


----------



## Landmantx

My Polk Monitor 60's are powered to a nice listening level by the Taboo. No where close to rock concert levels, but surprisingly good. It also sounds FAR superior to my ears than my Onkyo solid state for stereo. If you don't have a large room and you get a nice speaker to pair with it, I am sure that you will be much happier than I am with my lowly polks. I am trying to audition the Pendragons that an AVSer who lives in Dallas has. I hope that works out so I can get that decision finalized soon.


----------



## audiosceptic

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> Audiosceptic,
> 
> How is the new Taboo holding up against your Consonance M10S??
> 
> I don't think I'm hearing any hum with the new Lucid Mode either....my experience with it is a mixed bag thus far but that's the nature if that beast. Nice to be able to switch it on and off on the fly. My Taboo is about a week old so I'm gonna give it some more time before I write some detailed impressions....its been fun (for the most part) thus far


 
  I emailed Decware today about the hum with the new Lucid mode is engaged. There is also hum with the old Lucid mode engaged but barely noticeable. I checked for hum with my HD-800 and Beyer T7 and it was still there. I could swap tubes but I'll wait to hear from Decware.
   
  I really like the Consonance M10S. Unfortunately it produces hum when used with any headphones but the HE-6. The HE-6 sounds glorious through it and is my preferred dynamic setup. The M10S responds well to tube swaps and I'm currently using some SED EL34's and NOS Mullard 12AX7 and 12AU7. I was hoping the Taboo would offer similar performance to the M10S but with the HD-800 and LCD-2. So far I'm not so sure it does. I'll keep comparing with different sources and see what happens.


----------



## mwindham08

Received my XLR cables from Audeze today.
   
  The Taboo sounds much better than it did from the single ended output.
  I can hear all of the music without having to use any of the lucid modes.
   
  Volume reaches adequate levels easier and the sound stage seems to have increased.
   
  It is such a difference that I would not recommend listening to the Taboo unless you are going to use balanced outputs.
   
  I'm really enjoying this amp, if any of you all are on the fence I would suggest placing your order before the
  200 dollar discount disappears, you won't regret it!


----------



## mwindham08




----------



## mwindham08




----------



## mwindham08

Sorry if I went overboard with the pictures....got a little excited
   
  I took pictures of the amazing packing job Decware did as well, really top notch


----------



## OPR8R

Glad the balanced cable is working out so well. I too was surprised by how much it made a difference on my Taboo. I still use Old Lucid mode, but it doesn't make as big a difference as it did before.


----------



## Kendoji

Great photos!


----------



## ZenTriode

> There is an issue with lucid mode turned off with a weird ringing.  It seems to work just fine with old and new mode turned on.  I have been mostly listening to my HD800's, though.  I will try to get some more time with the HE500's and see what I think.


 
   
  I have been monitoring this thread since it was started because I take the Taboo Mk III very seriously and am keenly interested in everyone's experience with it.  We have a support forum on our web site for the Taboo Mk III which can be seen here:  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?board=TABOOMK3  I would invite any of you to join it, especially with support questions, as that is where I prefer to answer them.  Of course you are also welcome to e-mail me directly at zen@decware.com with any support questions or comments you might have.  Also registration in our forum has a tricky captcha where you actually leave out the first two and the last two characters.  A simple trick that eliminates spam bots.
   
  The reason I'm posting here this evening is to talk about *lucid mode and single-ended headphone cables*.
   
  The taboo design has a floating output stage, meaning that the negative speaker jacks are not connected to ground like is typical in 99.9% of amplifiers.  This is what makes it so Taboo, and what makes possible it's Lucid Mode feature.   
   
  A single ended headphone jack has only three wires, not four.  That means the grounds for each channel are tied together.  Since the Taboo will not tolerate this, the ground for the headphone jack can only come from one channel or the other.  To get around this issue, the ground is tied into the lucid mode switch so that lucid mode itself can create a virtual ground for the headphones.  That means that original lucid mode must be ON at all times for proper operation of single ended headphone cables.  Turning the switch off will cause the virtual ground to vanish leaving one or the other channels without a ground.  This will cause strange things to happen sonically, which includes the experience I quoted at the start of this post.
   
  It's really very simple.  Keep Original Lucid Mode ON when using headphones that employ single-ended cables.  Original Lucid Mode is a natural and accurate frequency based cross-feed that you would usually want to have ON anyway - with virtually all headphones.
   
  Otherwise, get yourself a balanced cable for your headphones, that way the grounds of each channel are separate at all times, just like loudspeakers... which is partly why balanced sounds better than single ended cables with the Taboo Mk III.  
   
  I will be writing a paper on New Lucid Mode soon, as it can be used as a tool to evaluate the quality of many recordings.  Because it works by revealing information hidden in the recordings that is out of phase from channel to channel...  rendering it silent to the ears... it lets one evaluate how much phase angle discrepancy there is between the various tracks before they were mixed down to two channels.  In my paper I'll explain exactly how that works...  but the result is simple.  Audiophile recordings that were done with purist practices and are free of excessive phase distortion between tracks caused by microphone placement, electronics and effects busses, will sound absolutely stunning without New Lucid Mode turned on.  Then when New Lucid Mode IS turned on, you will hear almost nothing change.  On the flip side, hearing a big change when New Lucid Mode is used is indicative of a less than great recording and if analyzed, shows much of how the recoding was mixed and mastered.  Of course fake or digital reverb effects common in main stream recordings are not going to sound good with New Lucid Mode turned ON.
   
  Hope these insights increase your understanding of the Taboo which in turn increase your enjoyment of it.  This is a very serious listening machine for very serious headphones and very serious recordings. And thanks to New Lucid Mode, half of the 80% of less than great recordings can now be heard as though a mastering guru made the recording.  Certainly increased the size of my serious listening library!
   
  Thanks,
   
  Steve Deckert.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Steve Deckert.


 
  Steve, Thanks for the explanation.  As I said it is not a huge issue as I prefer to listen with lucid mode on anyway.  However, I must say that I was using a balanced cable (Q French silk) when I heard this noise in my HE500's.  I did not email you about this as it is minor and the amp is working flawlessly with the primary phones I use (HD800's). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  P.S. I am also looking forward to my ZSB and putting my zen head kit together.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Steve Deckert.


 
   
   
  Thank you so much Steve for your comments. As a future Taboo owner with an order placed for delivery overseas this provides full clarity and comes as excellent reassurance regarding the design intentions. I definetely plan taking advantage of the balanced mode.


----------



## OPR8R

Very cool. I'm surprised ZenTriode wasn't already taken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It's nice to see a post from Steve here.  
   
  I have a problem with my Taboo as well.  I've been staying up way too late listening to it, and it's cutting into my sleep time.  This week has been worse with the release of Daft Punk's new album.


----------



## Charnwood

I ordered a Taboo last Friday evening, but apart from the automated order acknowledgement, there has been no indication that Decware are even aware of the order. I'm wondering if this is usual.


----------



## longbowbbs

charnwood said:


> I ordered a Taboo last Friday evening, but apart from the automated order acknowledgement, there has been no indication that Decware are even aware of the order. I'm wondering if this is usual.




Totally normal. You can see your place in line updated daily from the amplifier Build Sheet PDF on the bottom of the Decware contacts page.


----------



## Charnwood

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Totally normal. You can see your place in line updated daily from the amplifier Build Sheet PDF on the bottom of the Decware contacts page.


 
  That is good to know. The Build Sheet does not appear to have been updated for several days. My order certainly does not yet appear on it.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> That is good to know. The Build Sheet does not appear to have been updated for several days. My order certainly does not yet appear on it.


 

 All part of the journey, my friend


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Very cool. I'm surprised ZenTriode wasn't already taken
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, that and the fact that I need to install lights on my doorbell and all my phones cause I am always wearing headphones and cant hear them.  *Really* liking watching movies with headphones on, can hear so much more in the background.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> That is good to know. The Build Sheet does not appear to have been updated for several days. My order certainly does not yet appear on it.


 
   
  Yeah, it was the same for me. They seem to add the new orders once every so few days. After 1-2 weeks of being on the list, you'll get an email too, to say they aknoweldge your "NEW" order. Regardless by then you'd have probably moved up on the list a few spots.


----------



## Charnwood

Thanks Guys for your words of encouragement, its much appreciated at this point in the ordering process.
   
  Initially I'll be pairing the Taboo with my Audeze LCD 2 version 1's and Sennheiser HD800's. The HD800's are yet to arrive.
  I'm also considering adding speakers. The Omega Super 3T Desktops are what I have in mind. 
   
  I'm not sure what the front end will be, suggestions for a DAC that would complement the above would be welcome.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> Thanks Guys for your words of encouragement, its much appreciated at this point in the ordering process.
> 
> Initially I'll be pairing the Taboo with my Audeze LCD 2 version 1's and Sennheiser HD800's. The HD800's are yet to arrive.
> I'm also considering adding speakers. The Omega Super 3T Desktops are what I have in mind.
> ...


 
   
  I would go for a DAC with a strong pre-amp, especially for speakers. I've myself been looking at NAD M51.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> Thanks Guys for your words of encouragement, its much appreciated at this point in the ordering process.
> 
> Initially I'll be pairing the Taboo with my Audeze LCD 2 version 1's and Sennheiser HD800's. The HD800's are yet to arrive.
> I'm also considering adding speakers. The Omega Super 3T Desktops are what I have in mind.
> ...


 
  I have the Omega 3T monitor here now for a review. I just got them so they are burning in now but the Taboo drives them easily using the Oppo BDP105 volume maxed and they play plenty loud. Too early for impressions as they  need about 300 hrs to sound their best.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> Thanks Guys for your words of encouragement, its much appreciated at this point in the ordering process.
> 
> Initially I'll be pairing the Taboo with my Audeze LCD 2 version 1's and Sennheiser HD800's. The HD800's are yet to arrive.
> I'm also considering adding speakers. The Omega Super 3T Desktops are what I have in mind.
> ...


 
  I've been very happy with Wyred4Sound's DAC-2.


----------



## Charnwood

Quote: 





negura said:


> I would go for a DAC with a strong pre-amp, especially for speakers. I've myself been looking at NAD M51.


 
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I've been very happy with Wyred4Sound's DAC-2.


 
  I'm guessing that both the NAD M51 and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSD would be equally capable with the Taboo in driving speakers and both are about the same price here in the UK. At the moment I favour the DAC-2 DSD both for Its form factor and its DSD capability. I need to read up on the NAD M51.
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> I have the Omega 3T monitor here now for a review. I just got them so they are burning in now but the Taboo drives them easily using the Oppo BDP105 volume maxed and they play plenty loud. Too early for impressions as they  need about 300 hrs to sound their best.


 
  Frank, I'm looking forward to reading both your impressions and your review.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1


----------



## mwindham08

I've really enjoyed the Audio-GD 7.32 as my dac.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> I'm guessing that both the NAD M51 and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSD would be equally capable with the Taboo in driving speakers and both are about the same price here in the UK. At the moment I favour the DAC-2 DSD both for Its form factor and its DSD capability. I need to read up on the NAD M51.
> 
> Frank, I'm looking forward to reading both your impressions and your review.


 
   
  W4S was also on my list. The reason I'm no longer going for it is that I prefer a neutral sounding DAC and I've been hearing the W4S is towards warm. That said, it seems to be a really great DAC and it's very popular with the community.
   
  In secret I am also conspiring for the PS Audio PWD2, but I am sure my wife will not at all appreciate this kind of expense.


----------



## Kendoji

So I went ahead and placed my order, now the waiting begins!
   
  I'll be using my Violectric V800 DAC with it, which hopefully will work nicely together.  I was wondering, though, would it make any sense to use my V200 as a pre-amp to give the Taboo a bit more power?  I'm a bit of n00b with these things, so I'm not sure if that makes any sense.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> So I went ahead and placed my order, now the waiting begins!
> 
> I'll be using my Violectric V800 DAC with it, which hopefully will work nicely together.  I was wondering, though, would it make any sense to use my V200 as a pre-amp to give the Taboo a bit more power?  I'm a bit of n00b with these things, so I'm not sure if that makes any sense.


 
  This is a hobby. I would let the Taboo burn in and enjoy it for awhile then see if the V200 makes any positive difference for you.


----------



## ANDEROAN

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> This is a hobby. I would let the Taboo burn in and enjoy it for awhile then see if the V200 makes any positive difference for you.


 
  sounds like good advice for me aswell, I was almost going to get the ZStage, but will opt for just getting my T3 and give it a good listen to it for a long while, and then see where I sit in terms of listening satisfaction
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





! before I add anything to it? is it cruel to let my ZSatge sit all alone in Decwares cart, am I a bad person for doing so? will my HP-P1 and CLAS be sufficient to give me good sound? will the next season of Wilfred be better then the last seaon? well none of any of it will really matter when my T3 arrives!   
   
  on another note I just got a scare, I just got something that NO ONE wants to get? yes you guessed it a call from Sarah at Decware 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! she couldn't access my account for my final payment for my T3? I just got done sending Steve an e-mail on the same topic cuz my name was dropped from the build sheet? and that was the first thing that came to my mind, insufficient funds/declined? for some reason? Sarah rerouted it the payment thru PayPal, and whalla! the deed is finally done, yippee I am now a poor ramman noodle man, who is soon to be rich in audio spirit!
  
  so if anyone else here is waiting? and your name mysteriously dropped off the build sheet, you also will be recievig a call from Sarah, or call her, either way takes you to audio Nirvana!
   
  Yippee!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





anderoan said:


> so if anyone else here is waiting? and your name mysteriously dropped off the build sheet, you also will be recievig a call from Sarah, or call her, either way takes you to audio Nirvana!
> 
> Yippee!


 
   
  I'm hearing you bro. The list has been moving really well this week, so not so long left for me now.  Time to start conserving a healthy credit card balance, something which hasn't happened in quite a while.


----------



## ANDEROAN

Quote: 





negura said:


> I'm hearing you bro. The list has been moving really well this week, so not so long left for me now.  Time to start conserving a healthy credit card balance, something which hasn't happened in quite a while.


 
   
  which is cool cool cool, yes it gets really exciting being on page 1 of the build sheet! Steve and the gang are really getting things moving along, which is great for alll of us audio deprived junkies!
   
  and great news and cudos to Sarah for getting my finances worked out, and all of Decware! my T3 was shipped out yesterday, and it will be here today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, WHA? which is awesome cuz I am out with a bad back and this will definately help my recovery! I bet there having a stork drop it off, my little baby, lol, looks like old school is the best school! 
   
  thanks Decware!


----------



## Charnwood

I found an email to Sarah to be beneficial earlier in the week. I'm now on the build list and my shipping costs have come down.


----------



## OPR8R

A little rollin' here, a little rollin' there...  Right now I've got an Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 up front and Philips 5R4GYS in the back.  With that combo I'm hearing tighter bass with mid bass and highs coming forward a bit.  I'm going to try adding some Philips EL84's to the mix soon, I think.  So much fun.  Such a cool amp


----------



## McKajVah

One Taboo ordered for Norway as well  
I currently only have a HE-500, but I think I'll get a lcd-2 soon. I'm also thinking of using the speaker outputs, should be interesting, and in a way makes this amplifier a bit of a bargain... 

Btw, has anyone tested it with PCC189 tubes? I know these are 7.6v, but they are known to work beautifully in other amps.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mckajvah said:


> One Taboo ordered for Norway as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Same thinking here mate. I am hoping the result with speakers will also be worthwhile as it should. I've got a pair of 96dB floorstanders waiting for the Taboo. Not too long to wait now for me hopefully and I will post back with some impressions with both speakers and headphones (once the burn-in has been done preferably). Perhaps a bit cheeky to mention this here, but if you're thinking of getting the LCD-2s, please feel free to check the link in my signature or drop me a PM.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Decware DM945's are on the UPS truck headed my way!!


----------



## negura

How will you be getting any sleep tonight then!?
   
  The Decware speakers have 2x speaker binds each, seemingly one pair for the tweeter and one for the main driver. How are you supposed to connect those to the Taboo? My speakers are also like that ...


----------



## longbowbbs

They can be bi-wired. However you can wire them together and use just one set of cables.
   
  They come with jumpers to facilitate this:
   
   

   
   
  The gold jumpers are connecting both sets of terminals.


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> How will you be getting any sleep tonight then!?
> 
> The Decware speakers have 2x speaker binds each, seemingly one pair for the tweeter and one for the main driver. How are you supposed to connect those to the Taboo? My speakers are also like that ...




Can you tell me the differences between the LCD2 and 3 on the Taboo? Any cons?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Can you tell me the differences between the LCD2 and 3 on the Taboo? Any cons?


 
   
  I will do once I get my Taboo. Unfortunately I still have a list to refresh.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> I will do once I get my Taboo. Unfortunately I still have a list to refresh.


 
  Dunno, why I asked that like you already had it.  Sorry for pouring salt into your list-waiting wound.


----------



## Kendoji

Oh the torture.  A week after ordering and I'm still on page 6.  And even though I know it's going to take months I still check the list every day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, I'd also love to hear some comparisons of the LCD-2 and LCD-3 on this amp.  I'll probably get an Audeze at some point, and am even considering going all-out and just getting the LCD-3 if it's a good match.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Oh the torture.  A week after ordering and I'm still on page 6.  And even though I know it's going to take months I still check the list every day.


 
   
  I hear you. I have just done my daily round only to see there was no movement since Friday. Still stuck on page 2.


----------



## Kendoji

I've been eyeing up your LCD-2 ad by the way.  But again, I'm now thinking of holding out for the LCD-3.


----------



## dave1109

page 5 here, I tell myself not check, but I can't help myself 
  noticed 17 taboos ordered in may, going to be along wait !


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dave1109 said:


> page 5 here, I tell myself not check, but I can't help myself
> noticed 17 taboos ordered in may, going to be along wait !


 
  Long wait, yes!...But well worth it...


----------



## OPR8R

For those of you interested, I had a nice conversation with Steve Deckert about the ZP3 (phonostage), in which he failed to keep me from ordering one.  Anyway, he says the ZP3 is a good match for the Taboo and also a good match for those who have the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge.
   
  So the wait list watching begins again, this time for a ZP3 and CSP2+.  BTW, they'll start offering black as a chassis (top plate) option for the CSP2+ in about a month.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> For those of you interested, I had a nice conversation with Steve Deckert about the ZP3 (phonostage), in which he failed to keep me from ordering one.  Anyway, he says the ZP3 is a good match for the Taboo and also a good match for those who have the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge.
> 
> So the wait list watching begins again, this time for a ZP3 and CSP2+.  BTW, they'll start offering black as a chassis (top plate) option for the CSP2+ in about a month.


 
  Nice! You will have the whole family


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice! You will have the whole family


 
  He just missin g the speakers for an all decware system.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





frank i said:


> He just missin g the speakers for an all decware system.


 

 The speakers may be next.  Stop me guys!!


----------



## longbowbbs

DM945's arrive at the house tomorrow!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> DM945's arrive at the house tomorrow!


----------



## WNBC

Taboo owners.  I am one of you again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I had the MKII and now MKIII.
   
  I purchased Frank's Taboo.  Arrived today.  Nothing but praise for Frank.  Something got jostled during shipping.  Maybe a screw loose on the inside.  Sounds metallic but I don't know.  The amp plays fine, no problems.  Would any of you worry about something shorting or is it not likely based on the topology?  I don't know the guts of the Taboo.  I don't even know if it is possible for me to open it up simply by removing all screws or does one have to be more careful.  I'm not worried about warranty here by removing the top since I don't have one.  Left a note for Steve but it's already too late for a response.  I could just not think about the loose part but how many of us are really like that?  Sounds great though, more on the sound later.  I need to go through this thread.


----------



## Argo Duck

Guys, just read a very well written review of the MrSpeakers' modified Fostex Mad Dogs (the Fostex T50rp), by our very own *Frank I*. Being orthos, he naturally tried them with the Taboo. Looks like it was a great match...hmm, tempting (nope, I've got enough headphones )

Review here.

WNBC, congrats. You know you can get the Taboo checked by Decware and a new lifetime warranty issued right? About $70 iirc.

Very tightly picked inside, judging from photos of earlier Taboos' internals (6 Moons site I think)...I'd wait for Steve's advice if I were you!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Taboo owners.  I am one of you again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Welcome back to the club WNBC! If the amp is just sitting there and working OK, then it should be fine. Probably a good idea to call Steve just to make sure. The MK III is a nice step up from the previous Taboo's.


----------



## WNBC

Feels good to be back.  After a short stint in the portable world I am ready for the big rigs again.
   
  In regards to the Taboo, it could be a rookie mistake on my part.  I tightened the speaker posts and haven't heard anything since.  Either the potentially loose component is snug now or what I was hearing was a loose post.  If I could take a quick peek inside it would give me peace of mind but I may just forget about it for now.
   
  Taboo is really doing the TH-600s justice.  The new lucid mode is amazing.  Because I have a different DAC and headphones it will be difficult for me to compare to my previous MKII w/ VCaps.  That was a standout amp as well.  This MKIII is sharp looking with the gauges and extra inputs.  
   
  Need to read up on all the 6922 variants for the input tubes the MKIII can accept.  I am going to assume there is talk about tube rolling in these 47 pages.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> WNBC, congrats. You know you can get the Taboo checked by Decware and a new lifetime warranty issued right? About $70 iirc.
> 
> Very tightly picked inside, judging from photos of earlier Taboos' internals (6 Moons site I think)...I'd wait for Steve's advice if I were you!


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Welcome back to the club WNBC! If the amp is just sitting there and working OK, then it should be fine. Probably a good idea to call Steve just to make sure. The MK III is a nice step up from the previous Taboo's.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Feels good to be back.  After a short stint in the portable world I am ready for the big rigs again.
> 
> In regards to the Taboo, it could be a rookie mistake on my part.  I tightened the speaker posts and haven't heard anything since.  Either the potentially loose component is snug now or what I was hearing was a loose post.  If I could take a quick peek inside it would give me peace of mind but I may just forget about it for now.
> 
> ...


 
  Glad it was the post. I had the speakers hooked to them and probably did not tighten them when I switched the amps. Let me know if there any issues John. I do not believe there will be.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks Frank, I think it was the posts too. 
   
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Glad it was the post. I had the speakers hooked to them and probably did not tighten them when I switched the amps. Let me know if there any issues John. I do not believe there will be.


----------



## ANDEROAN

well I have had my T3 for a short time now, and as with everyone else, it improves with playtime, I haven't played around with it a whole lot as for headgear other then my LCD2s, but I am liking what I am hearing, of course higher bit rates is the only way to go, more later,
   
  as for the single ended output covers/inserts? I've found a very nice solution, I am using some rubber plugs from work to keep them closed up while not in use, and they fit perfetly, they are 1 3/4" long and wind up inseting 1", here's some pics of them, and how they fit, 
   

   

   

   
  if anyone would like some, PM me your name and address, and I will ship you out some, no charge, as I get them free from work,


----------



## negura

Some good news this evening.  Happy to find a "parts pulled" email. Not too long now.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Some good news this evening.  Happy to find a "parts pulled" email. Not too long now.


 
   
   
  That is such a good feeling.


----------



## longbowbbs

Excellent news!


----------



## HPDJ

My Taboo MKIII is up for sale in the classifieds. It's ready to ship straight from Decware in MINT condition! Check out the post for details if your interested 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/668703/decware-zen-taboo-mkiii-planar-headphone-amplifier


----------



## Argo Duck

Could you elaborate on "music sounded distant and cavernous" (or words to that effect)?

Was that in all modes or just super-extra-special-lucid?

You need to put up better pictures man!

Cheers.


----------



## HPDJ

Hi AiDee,
   
  Distant and cavernous are the best words I can find to describe the effect really. Vocals were buried in the mix and instruments were just sounding "reverby". This happened ONLY with the left single ended headphone jack and only when OLD lucid mode was engaged. With NONE of the lucid modes engaged I would get no sound from_ that particular headphone jack_. With old AND new lucid modes engaged with that jack, the music sounded same, just more upfront and louder. Still distant and "echoy". It was odd but remedied by just using one of the other 3 jacks available on the amp. Everything came back to life after that and things sounded really great with my LCD 2's!
   
  I spoke with Decware today and the issue is _completely _fixed and ready to go! Hope this helps


----------



## Argo Duck

Cool, thanks - sounds like it was early teething problems in production!

Good luck with the sale - it's a good deal for someone - and your next amp(s)


----------



## HPDJ

My amp has SOLD!


----------



## Rizlaw

HPDJ,
  Congratulations.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I had a feeling it would go fast.


----------



## HPDJ

Thanks Rizlaw!


----------



## mwindham08

I know alot of you guys are using the CSP2+ as a preamp. Any other preamp recommendations for the taboo?


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





hpdj said:


> My amp has SOLD!


 

 Happy to have bought it, especially from such a first rate seller.
   
  Can't wait to get it.  Just bought a pair of LCD 2's to use with it.  Hopefully it will sound as good as the reviews...
   
  Instant system if you will, just add $$$.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Happy to have bought it, especially from such a first rate seller.
> 
> Can't wait to get it.  Just bought a pair of LCD 2's to use with it.  Hopefully it will sound as good as the reviews...
> 
> Instant system if you will, just add $$$.


 
  Give them a bit to break in and your patience will be rewarded.  If I remember right, my Taboo blossomed in about a week.  My LCD-2's are about a year old and are pretty sweet sounding, especially on the Taboo Mk3.  Enjoy


----------



## IHMEYERS

Anyone have any experience with the Taboo and either the HR-1s or ZOBs.  I am thinking about using the Taboo in my main (video based) system.  I would run the front outputs of my Aragon processor into one of the Taboo inputs and run my Wyred4Sound DAC into the other input.  My Aragon 5 channel amp would handle center and sub with the Taboo handling front channels.  I would just have to buy a pair of efficient speakers because the Taboo isn't going to drive my Martin Logans.
   
  The way I've got it sketched out now is that the Taboo will go into my living room in a headphone only system with the W4S DAC and a Sonic Frontiers transport.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Junior mints

I have sent a couple emails to a few people at Decware with no response in about a week. Is this normal? I know they take their time to make great one of a kind products, but was just curious about a few things before I decide to buy.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ As I understand it, this is normal. You're better to ring, and if you get Steve Deckert you've won the jackpot - he has all the time in the world for his customers.

Alternatively, try emailing Sarah@Decware.com and/or search the Decware forums which contain Steve's infrequent but useful answers and announcements _and_ numerous opinions, experiences and problems/answers from many Decware owners.


----------



## longbowbbs

+1 call. E- mail is not the best.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, Steve may take a little longer depending on how busy he is.  Sarah usually responds fairly quickly.
   
  You could check their forums for the answer.
   
  Oh, and you may just want to ask here, also, one of us might know what you want to know.


----------



## Kendoji

It's a month since I ordered and I've almost made it from page 6 all the way to page 4, whooooo!!  
   
  The long waiting time is quite nice in a way, as it gives me something to look forward to and allows plenty of time to contemplate an investment in an LCD-3.
   
  Also, I can start shopping around for tubes to play with.  Does anyone have tube suggestions already?


----------



## longbowbbs

I have a pair of NOS Mullard EL84's with the stock 6N1P in front. USAF-596 as the Rectifier (You need an adapter for that one)


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Also, I can start shopping around for tubes to play with.  Does anyone have tube suggestions already?


 
  I have an Amperex Orange Globe for the input stage, Philips 5R4GYS rectifier, and stock output tubes.  I'll likely roll EL84's soon though.


----------



## Kendoji

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I have an Amperex Orange Globe for the input stage, Philips 5R4GYS rectifier, and stock output tubes.  I'll likely roll EL84's soon though.


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have a pair of NOS Mullard EL84's with the stock 6N1P in front. USAF-596 as the Rectifier (You need an adapter for that one)


 
   
  Thanks for the pointers.  Did you find these tubes an improvement over the stock ones?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Increase in low end and overall slam.....Something I prefer....


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Thanks for the pointers.  Did you find these tubes an improvement over the stock ones?


 
  For me, the rectifier balanced things out a bit.  The Amperex cleaned up the low-end while giving mid-bass a bit more oomph.
   
  BTW, I also tried an Amperex Bugle Boy up front.  I didn't like it though.  I felt that while it gave the upper end a bit of air, it sounded to me that it came at the expense of low-end drive.


----------



## mwindham08

Ive tried the Amperex Orange Globe and the JAN Sylvania 6922 Green Label.
   
  I think the Sylvania provides a slight brighter sound and a little more clarity compared to the Orange Globe.
  Probably a little less bass impact with the Sylvania, but bass detail is still really great. 
   
  Definitely worth checking out.


----------



## Frank I

I am going to post some 6922 , 6Dj8 and some Amperex EL84 for sale if anyone is interest please pM me. The Bugle Boys,Orange Globe and i hav eone Siemens eC88 . All these tunes test as new and also have Matsusuita 6922 made wilt Mullard tooling


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am going to post some 6922 , 6Dj8 and some Amperex EL84 for sale if anyone is interest please pM me. The Bugle Boys,Orange Globe and i hav eone Siemens eC88 . All these tunes test as new and also have Matsusuita 6922 made wilt Mullard tooling


 
   
  I have been out of high-end audio (but I am getting back into it with my purchase of a Taboo 3) so I went to dig out my tube box.  I had forgotten that about ten years I went on a NOS binge and found a bunch of Brimar SLN CV5358s, about a dozen RAM Sovtek's, a couple of Amperex Orange globes, a couple of unidentified labelled CV293 Gold Pin (I think they're Mullard SLNs) and a few Telefunken 6922s and Mullard 6DJ8s.  I am not sure why I bought so many; maybe I was loading up for the end of the world.
   
  I guess I can do a lot of rolling once I get the amp set-up.  Any suggestions about what I might want to try first?  Thanks.


----------



## OPR8R

By coincidence, or maybe not, my Philips EL84's just came in.  I've been listening for the last half hour or so.  I'm pleased.  So far everything sounds the way I want.  Oh, I also got LCD-3's last week.
   
  So as it stands my Taboo Mk3 setup is 2x Philips EL84, 1 Philips 5R4GYS, and 1 Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> By coincidence, or maybe not, my Philips EL84's just came in.  I've been listening for the last half hour or so.  I'm pleased.  So far everything sounds the way I want.  Oh, I also got LCD-3's last week.
> 
> So as it stands my Taboo Mk3 setup is 2x Philips EL84, 1 Philips 5R4GYS, and 1 Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8.


 
  I like that tube combo! How are the LCD-3's?


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> I like that tube combo! How are the LCD-3's?




These EL84's should be mandatory. They sound great. 

LCD-3's sound pretty amazing here. More detailed bass and better highs. Everything is in better balance. The Taboo MK3 drives them with plenty of oomph. It's hard to imagine this is going to get better when I get the CSP2+ in a couple months. But yeah, I don't see my LCD-2's getting much use any time soon.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ good to hear. LCD 3 along with a new dac will be my next purchase. Congrats!


----------



## Frank I

Guys I stil  have 3 Bugle Boys l, 3 Genelex 6922, 3 Matsusita tunes and 8 6N1  ne wtibes never used all for sale and reduced prices on all. see my for sale add. Looking for some 12 AU7 and 12AX7 for a 2A3 speaker amp,. If anyone interested.


----------



## OPR8R

argo duck said:


> ^ good to hear. LCD 3 along with a new dac will be my next purchase. Congrats!



 
 Thanks. I'm hoping this gets me closer to the elusive goal of having and "end game" setup.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Thanks. I'm hoping this gets me closer to the elusive goal of having and "end game" setup.


 
  your tubes were shipped today and thanks USPS prior it look for them Saturday


----------



## OPR8R

frank i said:


> your tubes were shipped today and thanks USPS prior it look for them Saturday




Thanks Frank. Gotta love USPS.


----------



## bearFNF

OK, you guys got my curiosity going...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My MKIII is currently stock (6N1P-EV, 6P15P-EV/SV83, and Valve Art 274B).
  Total noob here...
  Can you recommend a set-up that would give me some more punch in low and mid bass?  Or do I need to go read the tube rolling threads and figure this out on my own?
   
  Where is a good place to find the tubes you guys mentioned already above?


----------



## mwindham08

Here is a little mini review/impressions of some of the 6DJ8/6922 tubes I have used with the Taboo.
  This is the first thing I have written like this concerning audio equipment so I hope this doesn't turn out too terribly!
   
Stock Tubes (not sure what brand they are)
  -Honestly these tubes are pretty good which was a surprise to me.
  -My Woo Audio WA2 stock tubes were garbage and all had to be replaced for it to reach it's full potential so this tube being good was a nice surpise!
  -Detail is pretty good, their weakest part is probably instrument separation, everything is a tad muddled together compared to some of the other tubes.
   
JJ E88CC/6DJ8 Gold Pins
  -These were probably the worst tubes with my WA2, and they continue that trend with the Taboo.
  -These did not dig as deep as the stock tubes nor have as much bass impact.
  -Less treble extension as well
  -Detail retrieval is average at best.
  -I bought these for probably 30 something dollars and for that price there are just much better tubes out there.
   
Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys
  -These have a vaulted reputation among tube rollers, and for good reason!
  -Like removing a veil from the JJ's, some clarity!
  -Great bass extension and impact, slightly more muddled compared to the stock tubes though.
  -Instrument separation is much improved
  -Compared to the stock and JJ tubes these were much more "fun", it was easier to really get into the music.
   
Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes
  -These were my favorite tubes with the WA2 and are probably my favorite Amperex tube that I have heard
  -These tubes are mid monsters and really bring them forward.
  -Having said that the pronounced mids make the bass seem slightly less impactful compared to the bugle boys, however there is none of the muddled feeling I heard the the Bugle Boys.
  -These have a very "airy" treble that is a joy to listen to.
  -These have more detail than any of the previous tubes to my ears.
  -Highly recommended!
   
JAN Sylvania 6922 Gold Pins Green Label
  -In my opinion the best tube for the Taboo.
  -Very Linear with the best treble of all these tubes
  -Probably slightly less bass impact than the Orange Globes or the Bugle boys, but maybe a smidge more detailed/sharp.
  -These have the best instrument separation and detail retrieval and is their strongest quality IMO
  -These make the JJ's sound like they are slogging through mud so to speak.
  -While the mids are not as pronounced as the Orange Globes they have a more realistic presentation of the music.
   
   
  Hope this helps with some of the tube rolling, I'll try to update this as I get to spend even more time with these tubes.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> OK, you guys got my curiosity going...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was actually working on this when you posted. Hope it helps!


----------



## mikek200

Here's a retailer that was recommended to me ,by another Taboo owner:,and today just got delivery of this tube:
   
http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/06/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.html?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
   
  His tech support was great,and fast
  Also,shipping was about 1 week..
  Most tubes are NOS,& Military stock,some new.,never opened,but always tested before being shipped
   
  Hope this helps,
  Mike


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> OK, you guys got my curiosity going...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Which headphones are you using again?
   
  Upscale Audio has a lot of nice tubes.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I was actually working on this when you posted. Hope it helps!


 
  Awesome, Thanks,  down the rabbit hole I go...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Here's a retailer that was recommended to me ,by another Taboo owner:,and today just got delivery of this tube:
> 
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/06/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.html?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
> 
> ...


 
  Great!! Thanks...I was actually there and not sure about them...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Which headphones are you using again?
> 
> Upscale Audio has a lot of nice tubes.


 
  HD800 mostly, HE-500 sometimes, and rarely HD650 and SR325is.  All types of music (flac from my oppo 103 and laptop), movies, games, etc...Bifrost as Dac, so far anyway.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> HD800 mostly, HE-500 sometimes, and rarely HD650 and SR325is.  All types of music (flac from my oppo 103 and laptop), movies, games, etc...Bifrost as Dac, so far anyway.


 
   
  Nice.  Well, I think you're ready to jump in anyway.  I wasn't really interested in rolling tubes (because it sounds awesome stock) at first but I've come to realize it's a great way to customize the sound of your amp.  It kinda sucks that NOS tubes are so expensive, but it's a lot of fun.  Switching out the front and two side tubes probably make the biggest difference, but even the rectifier will change the sound of your amp.  Have fun!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Awesome, Thanks,  down the rabbit hole I go...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm new to the taboo as well..and,suffering from severe tubitis---
  I do have a wide selection of 12au7's,,siemns,telefunken,mullard,and am selling almost all of them
  Honestly,I find the 5751 ,or,the 12ax7 ,do give more SQ {Ummphh},with my music genre,on my HD800's
  The 5751 is a tube ,you might want to consider--maybe one of the more learned members can chime in here?
   
  My Taboo II is  in for warranty  re-certification,so,not doing much rolling.-could be 12 weeks?'
  The only thing Im rolling ,is IEM's
   
  Good luck with your search..


----------



## OPR8R

"warranty  re-certification"
   
What's that?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Nice.  Well, I think you're ready to jump in anyway.  I wasn't really interested in rolling tubes (because it sounds awesome stock) at first but I've come to realize it's a great way to customize the sound of your amp.  It kinda sucks that NOS tubes are so expensive, but it's a lot of fun.  Switching out the front and two side tubes probably make the biggest difference, but even the rectifier will change the sound of your amp.  Have fun!


 
  Yep, both feet in the hole...down I go...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I'm new to the taboo as well..and,suffering from severe tubitis---
> I do have a wide selection of 12au7's,,siemns,telefunken,mullard,and am selling almost all of them
> Honestly,I find the 5751 ,or,the 12ax7 ,do give more SQ {Ummphh},with my music genre,on my HD800's
> The 5751 is a tube ,you might want to consider--maybe one of the more learned members can chime in here?
> ...


 
  Ack, just keeping up with what you just said made me dizzy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think Frank was looking for some of the ones you listed there? Frank?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Nice.  Well, I think you're ready to jump in anyway.  I wasn't really interested in rolling tubes (because it sounds awesome stock) at first but I've come to realize it's a great way to customize the sound of your amp.  It kinda sucks that NOS tubes are so expensive, but it's a lot of fun.  Switching out the front and two side tubes probably make the biggest difference, but even the rectifier will change the sound of your amp.  Have fun!


 
  Opr,
  Nos tubes are really not that expensive,if,you stick to American tubes..
  If you go to the site I mentioned above-you'll find some excellent bargains.
   
  But,you are right,tube rolling does suck ,sometimes,& can deplete your wallet really fast--but that's the nature of this hobby


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> "warranty  re-certification"
> 
> What's that?


 
  I just bought a used Taboo II.
  If you want a warranty,you have to send it down to Decware,and for $100.00 bucks,they will go over it ,& if,everything checks out,you get a new life time warranty.
   
  I'm heaing that there is a huge backup at Decware ,even on new orders,estimated delivery is 10-12 weeks,& I'm sure the guys at Decware ,are tripping over themselves to get me.....re-certified.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great impressions dude! I don't usually quote long posts (or any posts tbh), but this one bears repeating 



mwindham08 said:


> Here is a little mini review/impressions of some of the 6DJ8/6922 tubes I have used with the Taboo.
> This is the first thing I have written like this concerning audio equipment so I hope this doesn't turn out too terribly!
> 
> Stock Tubes (not sure what brand they are)
> ...


----------



## bearFNF

Heh, my ZSB is on page one finally.  But they skipped mine and pulled parts for two after mine...must be due to my customizations?  Sigh, I will have to wait a little longer...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ you've been checking the list too often, haven't you?! This is Sara's punishment


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Great impressions dude! I don't usually quote long posts (or any posts tbh), but this one bears repeating


 
  Thanks AiDee!
   
  I had some Siemens E188CC/7308 at one point and sold them...really regretting doing that


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I just bought a used Taboo II.
> If you want a warranty,you have to send it down to Decware,and for $100.00 bucks,they will go over it ,& if,everything checks out,you get a new life time warranty.
> 
> I'm heaing that there is a huge backup at Decware ,even on new orders,estimated delivery is 10-12 weeks,& I'm sure the guys at Decware ,are tripping over themselves to get me.....re-certified.


 
  Gotcha.  That's pretty cool they do a recertification.  These things really are forever.  You might actually jump ahead of some newbies.  I don't know how that works.  Anyway, we're list buddies


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ you've been checking the list too often, haven't you?! This is Sara's punishment


 
  LOL.  She knows when you've been checking.


----------



## bearFNF

Honest I was so busy at work that I just checked once this week, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well just ordered some tubes from Frank, let the rollin' begin...
   
  Oh, and did you guys get signed up for CanJam yet?  I just booked my flight and hotel...and my vacation request was approved today also...


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Here is a little mini review/impressions of some of the 6DJ8/6922 tubes I have used with the Taboo.
> This is the first thing I have written like this concerning audio equipment so I hope this doesn't turn out too terribly!
> 
> Stock Tubes (not sure what brand they are)
> ...


 
  Excellent review,especially about the Sylvania & the BugleBoys ,and,I'm not 100% sold on the JJ's either.
  Nick Dangerous gave me a few suggestions,after I bought a few of his tubes,and ,he was right on the money.
   
  1.Raytheon 5751 blackplate windmill getter..outstanding SQ,pricey,almost impossible to find,but the Tube Gods were with me that day.
  2.Sylvania 5751 black plate  3-mica
  3.Sylvania 5751 3-mica yellow label


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Honest I was so busy at work that I just checked once this week, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Bear you and the other guys on this thread cleaned me out pretty much of all the tubes I could not longer use and glad its going to people who can enjoy them. They are all great tubes for the Decware amps .


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Oh, and did you guys get signed up for CanJam yet?  I just booked my flight and hotel...and my vacation request was approved today also...


 
  I won't be going to CanJam, though I will be at Headmasters.


----------



## bearFNF

OH, snap, I just realized I skipped dinner again...better go get something to eat...not that I couldn't stand to skip a  meal or two, but.
   
  Looking forward to the tubes,


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Excellent review,especially about the Sylvania & the BugleBoys ,and,I'm not 100% sold on the JJ's either.
> Nick Dangerous gave me a few suggestions,after I bought a few of his tubes,and ,he was right on the money.
> 
> 1.Raytheon 5751 blackplate windmill getter..outstanding SQ,pricey,almost impossible to find,but the Tube Gods were with me that day.
> ...


 
  Theres a windmill getter on ebay for 150 dollars.
   
  Your not using them in the taboo are you?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I won't be going to CanJam, though I will be at Headmasters.


 
  I am glad your coming to the Headmasters and hope we can double the count by meet time. I am working on a few more vendors also.  I Depending on my daughters track schedule at Cornell this fall I am goign to try to get to Denver at the Can Jam also.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I won't be going to CanJam, though I will be at Headmasters.


 
  um, *Headmasters* | Professional Hairdressers – In London & UK ? or *Headmasters* - School of Hair Design - Lewiston ?  These are from google search...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









   
  OH, you probably mean this one, HEADPHONE MEET at the Headmaster in San Francisco 8/10/2013 form head-fi search. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am glad your coming to the Headmasters and hope we can double the count by meet time. I am working on a few more vendors also.  I Depending on my daughters track schedule at Cornell this fall I am goign to try to get to Denver at the Can Jam also.


 
  Sweet, hope to meet you there, at CanJam that is...


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> um, *Headmasters* | Professional Hairdressers – In London & UK ? or *Headmasters* - School of Hair Design - Lewiston ?  These are from google search...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Am I lame or what?  I guess I meant the Calfornia Audio Show.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Theres a windmill getter on ebay for 150 dollars.
> 
> Your not using them in the taboo are you?


 
  Yes,I am
   
  I just checked, mine were $90.00


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a conflict that weekend...2 years in a row...Someday!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have a conflict that weekend...2 years in a row...Someday!


 
  Hey, the guys in Minneapolis are working on a meet at the Needle Doctor July 20th.  I plan to go.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I saw that, but I will be at the Boy Scout Jamboree zip lining with 28,000 Scouts that day!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I saw that, but I will be at the Boy Scout Jamboree zip lining with 28,000 Scouts that day!


 
  Sounds like fun.  Hope its a strong line...


----------



## longbowbbs

3300 feet 50-60 miles per hour! Woot!
   
  BTW, Rolling the Philips 5R4GYS Rectifiers in the Taboo and CSP2+. Brand new tubes so will give them a few days to settle in....


----------



## jazzerdave

mikek200 said:


> I just bought a used Taboo II.
> If you want a warranty,you have to send it down to Decware,and for $100.00 bucks,they will go over it ,& if,everything checks out,you get a new life time warranty.
> 
> I'm heaing that there is a huge backup at Decware ,even on new orders,estimated delivery is 10-12 weeks,& I'm sure the guys at Decware ,are tripping over themselves to get me.....re-certified.


 

   
  When I talked to Steve about warranty work and re-certification, he said they go into a different queue than the new orders.  The line is apparently significantly shorter.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> 3300 feet 50-60 miles per hour! Woot!
> 
> BTW, Rolling the Philips 5R4GYS Rectifiers in the Taboo and CSP2+. Brand new tubes so will give them a few days to settle in....


 
  Be interested to read your impressions coming from the USAF rectifiers.
   
  Those EL84's are strong.  I noticed mine are stronger than stock.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Steve really does outfit everyone with a terrific set of stock tubes.  I have become a big fan of the stock 6N1P's in the CSP2+. The Genelax 6922 is a great tube for the input position. I have enjoyed the USAF-596's a lot. So far the Philips are showing really well. I have had them playing for about 12 hours now. I got them from Upscale Audio as new tubes. So far so good for sound. I suspect they are going to be a bit airier on the top end. I am using a small Def Tech Supercube 3 for a sub with the Decware DM945's. For speaker listening, I have plenty of bottom end...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll put the HD800's on tonight and see if the Philips can keep up on the bottom with the 596's.


----------



## mwindham08

I had to order myself some Phillips El84's to try out after listening to you all.
   
  The tube rolling never ends!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> When I talked to Steve about warranty work and re-certification, he said they go into a different queue than the new orders.  The line is apparently significantly shorter.


 
  Thanks Dave
  That info is much appreciated...
  Is there any way,I can access this warranty line from their website/forum??


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have never seen that report online. Probably a phone call to Sarah....


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have never seen that report online. Probably a phone call to Sarah....


 
   
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Thanks Dave
> That info is much appreciated...
> Is there any way,I can access this warranty line from their website/forum??


 
   
  Yeah, I don't think they have a list because the wait isn't that long.


----------



## mwindham08

mikek200 said:


> Yes,I am
> 
> I just checked, mine were $90.00




Oh i didnt know you could use the 5751 tubes in place of 6dj8s. 

Might have to try these out too then. How do they compare to the Sylvania?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Oh i didnt know you could use the 5751 tubes in place of 6dj8s.
> 
> Might have to try these out too then. How do they compare to the Sylvania?


 
  I'm using it ,in place of the 12au7,'s--not the 6dj8's--not even sure ,I can use the 6dj8's on my taboo II?
   
  To the best of my knowledge,the 5751 is the military version of the 12ax7?
  Someone ,please correct me ,if I'm wrong on this??


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I'm using it ,in place of the 12au7,'s--not the 6dj8's--not even sure ,I can use the 6dj8's on my taboo II?
> 
> To the best of my knowledge,the 5751 is the military version of the 12ax7?
> Someone ,please correct me ,if I'm wrong on this??


 
  Oh this was my mistake. I missed where you had a MK II. 
   
  I might have seen some interesting sparks if I had put those tubes in my Taboo lol


----------



## mikek200

Well,you might be able to???,but,I would definetly check,before you buy.
   
  Both Sylvania's I mention before,are 5751 tubes
  The Raytheon windmill getter,is a 5751 as well.
   
  I'm sure one the more senior members,knows if they{5751} are usable ,on the Taboo III.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Well,you might be able to???,but,I would definetly check,before you buy.
> 
> Both Sylvania's I mention before,are 5751 tubes
> The Raytheon windmill getter,is a 5751 as well.
> ...


 
   
  Yes. 5751/12ax7/12au7/12at7 etc types are good in either Taboo.
   
  CSP2+ can only use 6922/7308/6N1P/etc types.
   
  They are not interchangeable... don't do it.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Yes. 5751/12ax7/12au7/12at7 etc types are good in either Taboo.
> 
> CSP2+ can only use 6922/7308/6N1P/etc types.
> 
> They are not interchangeable... don't do it.


 
  On the Taboo, I wonder how something like a 12ax7 would sound compared to 6922.  Just a different flavor, or is there something completely different going on here?


----------



## mikek200

deleted


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> On the Taboo, I wonder how something like a 12ax7 would sound compared to 6922.  Just a different flavor, or is there something completely different going on here?


 
   
  Well, the 12AX7's and their cousins were designed as audio tubes.  The 6DJ8 and its variants were originally video tubes and have a significantly wider bandwidth.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Well, the 12AX7's and their cousins were designed as audio tubes.  The 6DJ8 and its variants were originally video tubes and *have a significantly wider bandwidth. *


 
   
  Does that mean something potentially good?  As in for my/our purposes wider bandwidth is better for some reason?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

longbowbbs said:


> Steve really does outfit everyone with a terrific set of stock tubes.  I have become a big fan of the stock 6N1P's in the CSP2+. The Genelax 6922 is a great tube for the input position. I have enjoyed the USAF-596's a lot. So far the Philips are showing really well. I have had them playing for about 12 hours now. I got them from Upscale Audio as new tubes. So far so good for sound. I suspect they are going to be a bit airier on the top end. I am using a small Def Tech Supercube 3 for a sub with the Decware DM945's. For speaker listening, I have plenty of bottom end...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought the Philips 5R4GYS was detailed but gutless. Almost no bass. It was my least favorite rectifier in the Decware amps.
  
 Let me cut-and-paste my personal notes from this year... 
  
 Now presenting my personal "Rectifier Rolling Roundup" (using CSP2+ with HD800):
  
 Note: All tubes ranked WORST to BEST. All opinions are my own 2c so no refunds or guarantees final sale only yada yada. I broke them up into tiers which represented notable jumps in sound quality.
  
 And now... the RRR:
  
*Tier one: Not ready for prime time*
 Philips 5R4GYS - Very detailed but too sterile/cerebral. Weak bass. Blech.
 Shuguang (stock tube) 5U4G - Unremarkable by any measure. Truly generic tube.
 RCA brown base 5R4GY - Lush midrange but bass is too strong, sloppy, and bloated.
  
*Tier two: The steely trio*
 Sylvania 5Y3GT red lettering - Excellent sparkly detail up top, but suffers from that Philips-esque steely/lack of lushness/soft bass thing.
 Tung Sol 5Y3GT - Similar to the Sylvania with slightly better bass but again too flat and sterile. Voices lack the magic. Sort of "hi fi" sounding.
 Bendix 6106 - Similar to the above, but a bit brighter up top. Pass.
  
*Tier three: Competent, but unremarkable*
 RCA 5U4G black base - Decently lush and top-to-bottom tubey-ness, but... meh.
 Sylvania 5U4G - Similar to the RCA 5U4G above. A bit darker.
 Tung Sol 5U4G - The best of the cheap 5U4G's. Better balanced than the Sylvania, but still unmemorable. Keep looking.
  
 ***you are now crossing the DMZ Line of Recommendation***
  
*Tier four: I could live with that... if I had to*
 Valve Art 274B cryo - Lively soundstage and finally some tubey magic. Bass is a bit light, but not sterile. A good & cheap starter tube, but why stop here?
 Mazda 5Y3GB mini coke bottle - Neat-o heater & bottle design. A bit better definition than the Valve Art.
 Sylvania 5Y3G mini coke bottle - Similar to the Mazda, although more delicate and distant. Resembles a "polite USAF-596".
 Brimar 5R4GY - A little soft on top, but the midrange is truly gorgeous. Bass really pumps. This one is a bit of a midrange specialist, but it certainly creates magic there.
 USAF-596 - Very detailed, top to bottom. Also looks cool. Overall excellent. However... there is a subtle lifelessness to it that I do not like. It's slight... but it's there. Enough to make me keep looking. But I think most folks would be happy to stop here and enjoy the ride.
  
*Tier five: The ones I kept*
 RCA 5Y3GT - Amazingly cheap yet it ROCKS w/solid bass presence and tone. It lacks that final n'th of detail compared to some of the others, but it's hardly a dealbreaker. Lots of personality here. This tube was featured at the Austin 2013 meet & it was very well received.
 EML 5U4G meshplate - My favorite. Yeah, it's the most expensive by far, but it beats all the rest in this lineup. Maximum detail and gobs of lush evocative tube magic. The only ding would be that the bass doesn't quite slam with as much authority as the RCA... but it isn't deficient by any means. Especially when paired with a good visceral signal tube up front like the Mullard old shield 1960's/70's E88CC. Ultimately, the EML's finesse is what carries the day. It just gives me the most of what I dig about tube amps. Just be sure to let it warm up for about 30 minutes for maximum effect. 
  
 Happy rolling!


----------



## mikek200

Tech question ,from Taboo newbie:
   
  Am I correct that all these tubes types ,can be used on the Taboo II amp?
   
* **[size=small]5U4, GZ32, GZ34/5AR4, 5Y3, 6X4 and other rectifier tubes [/size] & GZ37 ?*


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> For me, the Philips 5R4GYS was highly detailed, but gutless. Almost no bass. It was my least favorite rectifier in the Decware amps.
> 
> Let me cut-and-paste my personal notes from this year... OK... got it...
> 
> ...


 
  Outstanding Review,Nick.
   
  Got the RCA yesterday,and you already know,I have the EML,but,
  I have no amp,in for re-certification
  Will do a a/b test ,as soon as I get the taboo back.
   
  I'm alittle surprised on  your take with the ValveArt 274B??--just my .02's though-different tubes for old cryoed ears ,like mine.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Outstanding Review,Nick.
> 
> Got the RCA yesterday,and you already know,I have the EML,but,
> I have no amp,in for re-certification
> ...


 
   
  You mean... surprised because I ranked it too high/low?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> You mean... surprised because I ranked it too high/low?


 
  No,I thought they might be in Tier 5,but,Tier 4 is right up there too.
  Again,my old cryoed ears,& my genre of music I prefer ,could have something to do with it?
   
  About the price ,on the EML--I know it scares many people away{$264.00 for a new one},,...ouch...but my reasoning is,why spend $1700 for a new Taboo,and then settle on a so-so set of tunes? ,and,
  No,I am not a rich man...& each tube I buy,has to be approved by my better half.
   
  Anymore suggestions & feedback ,will be greatly appreciated.
  Tnx


----------



## longbowbbs

The right combo of input and output tubes may change a listeners opinion of their rectifier choice too...


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet, can't wait to get some tubes next week and try them out.  I took the whole week off, not just for this, but I will have plenty of time to get some good listening in.  I also just finished painting building my DIY Zenhead and will be putting it through its paces.  Found some issues with paint that will cause a re-spray this weekend.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The right combo of input and output tubes may change a listeners opinion of their rectifier choice too...


 
  I agree..
  When I first got the Taboo,it was suggested  that I first select the Signal tube >then the Rectifier ,> then Output tube,and thats what I did.
  Question:
  I am using the stock 6P15-ev/sv83.
  I tried the El84,but wasn't that pleased with it
  Is the EL 84 ,a much more popular tube..I'm reading a lot of guys are using it
  Am I missing something?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I agree..
> When I first got the Taboo,it was suggested  that I first select the Signal tube >then the Rectifier ,> then Output tube,and thats what I did.
> Question:
> I am using the stock 6P15-ev/sv83.
> ...


 
  I think it depends on the combination you're using.  They might not sound so great when paired with certain tubes.  I've liked them in my system.


----------



## longbowbbs

Remember that you have two primary variables...
   
  1. The tube combo you are trying
   
  and
   
  2. Your own ears, which hear things differently than everyone else.
   
  So, you may end up with a combo that others are not excited about, but really sound great to you. Reading the threads will give you some starting points, but you have to take your own journey. Enjoy it, that is the point.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I think it depends on the combination you're using.  They might not sound so great when paired with certain tubes.  I've liked them in my system.


 
  When I tried them,I remember the seller, telling me ,it was a brand new tube-it looks that way too.
  Might just need some break in?
  I'll give it a go ,when I get my Taboo back
   
  Tnx


----------



## Nick Dangerous

longbowbbs said:


> The right combo of input and output tubes may change a listeners opinion of their rectifier choice too...




Quite true. I did my best to cross-reference my findings with other signal tubes and settled upon one (1960's Mullard old shield E88CC) which allowed the greatest nuances of the different rectifiers to come forth. Then I rolled all again from that vantage point, and re-ranked accordingly.

It's not an absolute authoritative list, but it should get most folks within striking distance without too much fuss.


----------



## Argo Duck

I can confirm the wait is not long, from when mad dude's CSP2 went through the process last year. The shipping took longer. IDK exactly but can't have been more than 3-4 days.



jazzerdave said:


> Yeah, I don't think they have a list because the wait isn't that long.


----------



## mwindham08

> Tier five: The ones I kept
> RCA 5Y3GT - Amazingly cheap yet it ROCKS w/solid bass presence and response up and down the spectrum. It lacks that final n'th of detail, but it's hardly a dealbreaker. It's got "the tone"... lots of personality here. This was the tube featured at the Austin 2013 meet & was very well received.
> EML 5U4G meshplate - Yeah, it's the most expensive of them all, but also the best I've heard. My newest (and likely final) rectifier selection. Delivers maximum detail without giving up any of that lush evocative tube magic. The only ding I could give it would be how the RCA delivers a smidge more satisfaction when it comes to slammin' gut-level bass. But the EML isn't deficient by any means. Its finesse is what ultimately carries the day. Needs to warm up at least 30 minutes for maximum effect. $$$ and fragile, but a worthy upgrade for the CSP2+ in my opinion.
> 
> Happy rolling & hope it helps!


 
  Do you know if there is a difference between the standard RCA tube vs. the RCA Miniwatt?
  Or is it just a different label


----------



## OPR8R

Tubes came in, Frank.  They appear to be in even better condition than the ones I already have.  Thanks!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Tubes came in, Frank.  They appear to be in even better condition than the ones I already have.  Thanks!


 
  Great I will leave you some feedback and glad you like them.


----------



## mwindham08

Hey Frank what are the odds of getting a comparison between the WA5 and the Taboo?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Hey Frank what are the odds of getting a comparison between the WA5 and the Taboo?


 
  I will cover that in review down the road but I thinks its unfair because the Wa5 is more than twice the price. its 4400.00 with the tubes I have in there.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I will cover that in review down the road but I thinks its unfair because the Wa5 is more than twice the price. its 4400.00 with the tubes I have in there.


 
  Yeah I was just curious if it was competitive so far above it's price point.
   
  If I ever get another Woo amp it will be the WA5, that and I have never heard a 300b tube amp before.


----------



## Frank I

I think the taboo in its price category is an excellent amp but it cant compete with what the WA5 can do.  The power of the WA5 for planars with this  speaker model is much more powerful. It driving the HE6 without a hiccup and I mean no matter what kind of music I throw at it it just sail through the music. It also drives speakers better than the Mk 111 did in direct comparison with the Omega 3T but then again for the difference it price it should do that and it does.  Its also the 300B tubes. Direct heated triode tubes have a well deserved reputation for the sound quality. It is 10 Watts for speakers and the LCD2 and HE6 are getting the benefit of that speaker power through the xlr 4 pin layout and the other two switches for low and high impedance headphone makes this an amplifier that can drive anything.
   
  That being said the Taboo is still an excellent amplifier in its price category and will compete with any amp up to 2K that I have heard. I liked my time with the Decware amps.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ This strikes me as a very fair summation Frank. Whilst my (at the time $1295 with VCAPs) Taboo II is the best LCD2 amp I've heard, I've been curious about amps like the Eddie Current Balancing Act. Evidently the WA5 should be added to the list.

Not sure I've got $4k of curiosity though


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ This strikes me as a very fair summation Frank. Whilst my (at the time $1295 with VCAPs) Taboo II is the best LCD2 amp I've heard, I've been curious about amps like the Eddie Current Balancing Act. Evidently the WA5 should be added to the list.
> 
> Not sure I've got $4k of curiosity though


 
  C'Mon Andre...Live a little!


----------



## Argo Duck

Evil one!!

Eric, be gone!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ This strikes me as a very fair summation Frank. Whilst my (at the time $1295 with VCAPs) Taboo II is the best LCD2 amp I've heard, I've been curious about amps like the Eddie Current Balancing Act. Evidently the WA5 should be added to the list.
> 
> Not sure I've got $4k of curiosity though


 
  The MK11 is an excellent amplifier and for that price makes it a real winner.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Question for those on the board much more knowledgeable than I re the Taboo 3...
   
  I got mine last week and love it but on many recordings I am not quite getting enough gain driving a pair of LCD 2s straight from a W4S DAC.  I am thinking I need to add a pre-amp but
   
  1) I love the purse sound of the DAC straight into the Taboo  and
  2) the build time for the Decware pre-amp will likely be 2+ months.
   
  I saw an old Zen Triode Preamplifier Model SE84CSP on eBay I could buy but I don't know much about their older units.
   
   
  Can anyone offer any suggestions on ideas in general, alternative preamps or a preamp  that they might be willing to sell.  Feel free to contact me through PM. 
   
  Thanks very much.
   
  Ian


----------



## McKajVah

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Question for those on the board much more knowledgeable than I re the Taboo 3...
> 
> I got mine last week and love it but on many recordings I am not quite getting enough gain driving a pair of LCD 2s straight from a W4S DAC.  I am thinking I need to add a pre-amp but
> 
> ...


 
  There is a "ZSTAGE" for sale in the Decware forums, but I think the seller requires that you pick it ut locally...
   
  Have a look....   http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1371482037/7


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





mckajvah said:


> There is a "ZSTAGE" for sale in the Decware forums, but I think the seller requires that you pick it ut locally...
> 
> Have a look....   http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1371482037/7


 
  That would be great if he would ship but it appears he won't.  I am in S. Florida so it would be kind of a hike to PA to pick up a gain stage.
   
  I'd buy one of those from Decware if it didn't take sooooo long to get them built.  I guess that's the price they pay for success, LOL.


----------



## McKajVah

I've been trying to call Decware for three days straight now, at least 10 times... but I only get the answering machine. Are they on a holiday, or do I need some secret "code" to get them to pick up the phone??? 
   
  I really want to talk to Steve about my Taboo order, but I might as well just ask it here.
  I currently have a HE-500 and will buy some speakers in the 87-89dB range. My listening room is about 4m x 4m (13x13 feet). 
   
  I want to use the amp to drive speakers as well, but I'm not confident a Taboo will do. It will certanly be great for headphones, but maybe not so good for speakers...
  Lately I've been looking at the "integrated" SE34I.3 with a headphone jack as well, and last week the TORII MKIII caught my attension...
   
  How will the SE34I.3 be with headphones and speakers, and how will the TORII MKIII be with headphones...
  I'm hoping to have one amp to rule them all, but will I end up with a "Jack of all trades, master of none" in the SE34I.3, a poor headphone amp in the TORII MKIII, or should I just stick with the Taboo MKIII and buy a seperate speaker amp later????
   
  I'm currenltly on page 4 on the waiting list, so I have to make a decision soon on what to have them build. Of course the TORII is also double the price, but I'm willing to take the hit if it excels in both.
   
  Please help.


----------



## mikek200

I think they are short handed there--Sarah is on maternity leave,or,so I've been told by Devon..so..???
  I'd e-mail Devon..
   
  It is a holiday ..happy 4th.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mckajvah said:


> I've been trying to call Decware for three days straight now, at least 10 times... but I only get the answering machine. Are they on a holiday, or do I need some secret "code" to get them to pick up the phone???
> 
> I really want to talk to Steve about my Taboo order, but I might as well just ask it here.
> I currently have a HE-500 and will buy some speakers in the 87-89dB range. My listening room is about 4m x 4m (13x13 feet).
> ...


 
  Teh Taboo Mk 111 will nto be good for speakers 87-89 DB un that size room or any room for that matter. The Mk 111 will work better with speakers that are 94DB or better =and in my opinion need the csp2  to smudging its best for speakers. I thought the Dare 2A3 8 watt integrated amp was better for the highly efficient Omega 3T. If the speakers you are using look at the recommended power rating from he speaker manufacturer. Most will bin those range woiil say 25W or more to drive them . I have never seen a speaker manufacture with a 89DB speaker recommend a 4.5 W amp to drive them properly.  Most Decware amps  are designed for 94DB and up and in my opinion the Mk 111 needs a preamp for speakers to sound best.


----------



## McKajVah

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I think they are short handed there--Sarah is on maternity leave,or,so I've been told by Devon..so..???
> I'd e-mail Devon..
> 
> It is a holiday ..happy 4th.


 
   
  Yeah, I know it's independance day tomorrow, but do you usually take the days before and after off work? (In scandinavia it's common to do this, but I really thought you had to work a lot more than us. We have 5 weeks paid holiday, plus about 10 other paid national holidays...)


----------



## mikek200

I suggested Devon,because I am waiting on delivery of my taboo,and it is ready to be shipped-she answered my e-mail instantly-TODAY
  Not sure who works & doesn't work at Decware,on what days??
  In this country ,we have a saying...."Good things come, to those who wait"...lol.
   
  Sorry,don't know the Scandinavian translation
  Hang in there.


----------



## McKajVah

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Teh Taboo Mk 111 will nto be good for speakers 87-89 DB un that size room or any room for that matter. The Mk 111 will work better with speakers that are 94DB or better =and in my opinion need the csp2  to smudging its best for speakers. I thought the Dare 2A3 8 watt integrated amp was better for the highly efficient Omega 3T. If the speakers you are using look at the recommended power rating from he speaker manufacturer. Most will bin those range woiil say 25W or more to drive them . I have never seen a speaker manufacture with a 89DB speaker recommend a 4.5 W amp to drive them properly.  Most Decware amps  are designed for 94DB and up and in my opinion the Mk 111 needs a preamp for speakers to sound best.


 
  Yeah, my bad... I forgot to tell that i really never listen to music past 90db, and sit about 1,5m-2m from them. So in theory 4W should be enough....?


----------



## negura

There appears to have been some activity today, as I've finally received my shipped email a couple of hours ago, which is like 4-5 days later after they charged me. It's been a considerable wait overall and fully expected, but I've still well exercised my patience. In the end a few more days won't make any difference... 
   
  Ironically I have received my EL84 tubes from Frank well before my Taboo.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mckajvah said:


> Yeah, my bad... I forgot to tell that i really never listen to music past 90db, and sit about 1,5m-2m from them. So in theory 4W should be enough....?


 
  Its not about the Loudness. it about driving multiple driver speaker with crossover. Underpowered speakers dont sound good. They have flabby bass and  you never getting the nest form the speaker you purchased. If your call but even near field which is what I amusing the Omega 3T the Taboo was just OK and I felt it needed a preamp as the MK111 was really designed for headphones and Steve said a speaker amp as a second thought. If you have the csp2 or any other preamp then it should work OK but in my opinion a 89 DB speaker would work better with more power.
   
  The MK 111 played my 89DB Polks but fully opened it was not very liud and they were being drive like the 35W Pioneers SX650 was a better amplifier for the Polks which are in my daughters room now.  The Pioneer makes those inexpensive Polks really sound great.


----------



## Argo Duck

Ian, I'm a little surprised about your problem getting the W4S-Taboo 3-LCD 2 loud enough.

I have the taboo 2 which has more power - but only 1dB more - it's rare I go over 12 o'clock. A gain problem? Might be worth trying another driver tube?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Ian, I'm a little surprised about your problem getting the W4S-Taboo 3-LCD 2 loud enough.
> 
> I have the taboo 2 which has more power - but only 1dB more - it's rare I go over 12 o'clock. A gain problem? Might be worth trying another driver tube?


 
  The MK has no resistor in the amp the MK111 adds a resistor which cuts the volume downs some. I think it would work better with a pre amp which it did when I reviewed it.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Ian, I'm a little surprised about your problem getting the W4S-Taboo 3-LCD 2 loud enough.
> 
> I have the taboo 2 which has more power - but only 1dB more - it's rare I go over 12 o'clock. A gain problem? Might be worth trying another driver tube?


 

 I have tried a number of driver tubes.  The best of the bunch (in terms of sound quality) was a NOS Brimar.  I liked that better than either the stock tube, Mullard, Telefunken or Amperex (Orange lettering) I had in my tube box.
   
  On most recordings I am able to get just enough gain at the highest (or next to highest setting).  Having had a lot of high end stuff in my house over the past 30 years I am generally a pretty good judge of this stuff and I think the Taboo3/LCD2 is borderline without a preamp.  IMHO, borderline in terms of gain, not sound quality which to my ears is A+.  I think whether it works or not for a given individual will depend upon how much gain they gain get from their DAC.
   
  Frank's explanation about the resistor makes sense because there are no recordings where I can use the 12 o'clock setting.  I am on the fence about getting a preamp.  I have downsized over the years to reduce the $$$ I have tied up in my system and I am not sure I want to spend much on a preamp (since for me using just a single source all it is is an expensive gain stage) , although the Decware preamp isn't too bad cost wise.  I am also not wild about putting anything in the signal path (i.e. preamp and another pair of interconnects) if I don't absolutely have to.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I think they are short handed there--Sarah is on maternity leave,or,so I've been told by Devon..so..???
> I'd e-mail Devon..
> 
> It is a holiday ..happy 4th.


 
  She was definitely pregnant when I was there in March. It is a National holiday tomorrow in the USA so it is not unusual for small business to take the week off.....


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> She was definitely pregnant when I was there in March. It is a National holiday tomorrow in the USA so it is not unusual for small business to take the week off.....


 

 She must have given birth about 2 weeks ago.  When I was on the phone with DeVon then she commented that Sarah had gone into labor.  Great news for the family. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I wouldn't be surprised given everything going on and the mid-week holiday that they won't be back until Monday.


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi Ian, bearing in mind I've never heard the mkIII, so this is just speculation/general information...

I recall Frank had a problem with his first mkIII review unit because level was too low. Turned out the engineer concerned had wired in a 100-ohm resistor. It was supposed to be 1 ohm! Things changed radically when this was fixed. *Have I got that right Frank?*
(It's so long since I picked up any electronic parts I'm not sure how resistors are coded now, but I could understand it being an easy mistake to make).

The W4S - even in SE mode - surely produces a healthy, standard 2Vrms. Doesn't it?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> She must have given birth about 2 weeks ago.  When I was on the phone with DeVon then she commented that Sarah had gone into labor.  Great news for the family.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes,I think you are right...
  Just hope Sarah & the baby are ,OK. ,and Sarah gets some rest..
   
  I'm guessing that my Taboo will go out on Monday,Devon told me the re-certification is done & all is well..so?
  A few more days wont kill me..


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Hi Ian, bearing in mind I've never heard the mkIII, so this is just speculation/general information...
> 
> I recall Frank had a problem with his first mkIII review unit because level was too low. Turned out the engineer concerned had wired in a 100-ohm resistor. It was supposed to be 1 ohm! Things changed radically when this was fixed. *Have I got that right Frank?*
> (It's so long since I picked up any electronic parts I'm not sure how resistors are coded now, but I could understand it being an easy mistake to make).
> ...


 

 Using the Stereophile test CD I have been employing for 15+ years the amp outputs just less than 1V using the test tone track.  That's without headphones attached and the voltmeter leads attached to the speaker terminals. 
   
  Seeing as how I got the amp directly from Decware (it was in for repair and that customer sold it to me and had DeVon ship it here) and that Steve himself checked it before I got it I would think that it is operating as it should but who knows.  Maybe I will call them next week.


----------



## Frank I

the first sample unit had the wrong resistor in the amp. I would htink if this was back to Decware  for a repair I would think the problem is something else. I would send it in again and and see what up with it.


----------



## IHMEYERS

I think I am going to buy a preamp or zstage for it.  I hate like hell to wait until September for it so if anyone hasa relatively new Decware preamp or zstage they want to sell quickly please PM me.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> I think I am going to buy a preamp or zstage for it.  I hate like hell to wait until September for it so if anyone hasa relatively new Decware preamp or zstage they want to sell quickly please PM me.


 
  How do you know ,that you'll have to wait till september.
  If they know what the problem might be,you could ???have it back in a few weeks.
   
  I sent my taboo in for re-cerification of the warranty,& some forum member,I would have to wait 12 weeks-when I emailed Devon,,it was done,so=10 days
  More than likley will ship Friday,tomorrow....so.


----------



## IHMEYERS

No, I meant that I don't think there is anything wrong with the Taboo and I would have to wait until September for a Zstage if I ordered one now.
   
  My hearing is just so/so these days so what seems not loud enough to me is likely loud enough for most people.  My 16YO son thinks its way loud enough.  Since the amp was just re-certified 2 weeks ago its probably fine.  This is the first time I've had a high end system without a preamp.  I've never run directly from a DAC to amp before this.  I sold my CJ preamp a few months ago because I was going headphone only and I didn't think I would need one...


----------



## WNBC

This is not too out of the ordinary.  I have excellent hearing and what I find average others find loud.  We all have different levels that are needed to release those endorphins.  
   
  I had the Taboo MKII + DAC-2 + HE-500 and for some recordings, esp. hi rez tracks, I couldn't get the music loud enough.  For most recordings it wasn't bad but I always had the knob pinned close to the limit.  I never got around to using a pre-amp.  Now with the MKIII + more efficient TH-600 I have no problem reaching loud levels.  I will get around to trying the Amphora as a pre-amp into the Taboo.  
   
  Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> No, I meant that I don't think there is anything wrong with the Taboo and I would have to wait until September for a Zstage if I ordered one now.
> 
> My hearing is just so/so these days so what seems not loud enough to me is likely loud enough for most people.  My 16YO son thinks its way loud enough.  Since the amp was just re-certified 2 weeks ago its probably fine.  This is the first time I've had a high end system without a preamp.  I've never run directly from a DAC to amp before this.  I sold my CJ preamp a few months ago because I was going headphone only and I didn't think I would need one...


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> This is not too out of the ordinary.  I have excellent hearing and what I find average others find loud.  We all have different levels that are needed to release those endorphins.
> 
> I had the Taboo MKII + DAC-2 + HE-500 and for some recordings, esp. hi rez tracks, I couldn't get the music loud enough.  For most recordings it wasn't bad but I always had the knob pinned close to the limit.  I never got around to using a pre-amp.  Now with the MKIII + more efficient TH-600 I have no problem reaching loud levels.  I will get around to trying the Amphora as a pre-amp into the Taboo.


 
  I also have the same issue
  On almost all ,my classical music,I need to crank up the volume to around 1 o'clock.-older recordings
  Everything else,I have it set to 10-11 o'clock,this is with the HD800/uber bifrost combo.
   
  WNBC,what is this "Amphora" ,you are referring to?--do you have a link?
   
  I'm seriously thinking about the Zstage.


----------



## WNBC

http://www.head-fi.org/t/423217/review-alo-audio-amphora-ss-headphone-amp
   
  Amphora has a preamp section to it but I haven't utilized it yet so I can't speak to its quality.  As a headphone amp I love it.
   
  All this talk of preamps is now getting me excited.  I've never really used a preamp but curious to know whether a SS or tube preamp is better with the Taboo.  Not sure about the Zstage.  I might just go all out for a CSP2+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Will be fun to experiment with different preamps I can find on Craigslist (McIntosh, Audio Research, vintage preamps, etc?).  
   
   
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I also have the same issue
> On almost all ,my classical music,I need to crank up the volume to around 1 o'clock.-older recordings
> Everything else,I have it set to 10-11 o'clock,this is with the HD800/uber bifrost combo.
> 
> ...


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I know alot of you guys are using the CSP2+ as a preamp. Any other preamp recommendations for the taboo?


 
  First time I have quoted myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My Dac outputs 2.5volts through RCA and I get very close to maxing out the volume on some records.
   
  I would assume you would need voltage a little higher than that to more easily reach higher listening levels.
   
  Any preamp will do that, not sure what dacs would go higher though.
   
  Audio-gd will let you pick what voltage you need but they are the only company I know that does that.
   
  This is assuming someone wanted to just use a Dac and not utilize a preamp.


----------



## WNBC

I will quote you now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  DACs with balanced outputs will easily put out 4-5V but not sure of how many unbalanced DACs would do so.
   
  CSP2+ just showed up in the for sale forum.  The gods have heard our cries.
   
  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> First time I have quoted myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/423217/review-alo-audio-amphora-ss-headphone-amp
> 
> Amphora has a preamp section to it but I haven't utilized it yet so I can't speak to its quality.  As a headphone amp I love it.
> 
> ...


 
  Don't you feel that a tube preamp ,might be a little bit too warm,or tubey??..{no pun intended}
  Thanks for the Amphora link-


----------



## WNBC

Not sure.  People seem to like the CSP2+ + Taboo.  Maybe better suited for neutral headphones?
   
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Don't you feel that a tube preamp ,might be a little bit too warm,or tubey??..{no pun intended}
> Thanks for the Amphora link-


----------



## longbowbbs

The combo is terrific and the CSP2+ does give added weight and MOAR! to the Taboo MK III.


----------



## OPR8R

I opted for the CSP2+ and ZP3 for my system (still another month or so to wait, I think), but I find that in most cases I listen at around 8-10 (10-12 o'clock).  It starts getting pretty loud for me after that.
   
  I'm a bit concerned that I'll have an overly tubey sounding setup too, but I've heard from a few, including Steve himself, that it'll be a great pairing.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Don't you feel that a tube preamp ,might be a little bit too warm,or tubey??..{no pun intended}
> Thanks for the Amphora link-


 
  I've been mulling over the same thing. I'm considering the Audio gd Master 1 since it will match my Dac but I haven't been able to find many reviews on it, at least not the newest model
   
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I will quote you now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If only the Taboo had XLR inputs as well.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/423217/review-alo-audio-amphora-ss-headphone-amp
> 
> Amphora has a preamp section to it but I haven't utilized it yet so I can't speak to its quality.  As a headphone amp I love it.
> 
> ...


 
  The Amphora looks very simliar to the Grado RA-1, I'm sure it sounds alot better though!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I will quote you now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Man,that csp2+,is a little on the pricey side
  Isn't a new one $895.00
  Oh-I get it,its for people who dont like to wait 12 weeks
   
  I'll pass


----------



## mwindham08

mikek200 said:


> Man,that csp2+,is a little on the pricey side
> Isn't a new one $895.00
> Oh-I get it,its for people who dont like to wait 12 weeks
> 
> I'll pass




Does it come with the the 150 dollars stepped attenuator? That might make it a little better of a deal.


----------



## WNBC

That's me.  Not too big into waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Consider the cost of trying different preamps then deciding on what I really wanted was the CSP2+ I don't see it as too bad of a price.  If one thought say $750-800 was a more price then I guess to me spending an extra $100-150 to not wait 12 weeks is worth it to me.  I can cut back on coffee and take the bus rather than pay for parking if I want to make up the difference.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Everything in this hobby is justifiable.    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Man,that csp2+,is a little on the pricey side
> Isn't a new one $895.00
> Oh-I get it,its for people who dont like to wait 12 weeks
> 
> I'll pass


----------



## OPR8R

Sarah tells me there will be a black chassis option for the CSP2+ soon. Depending on what your Taboo looks like, that might be a reason to get on the list instead of buying used. Some might find that to be a silly reason though.


----------



## WNBC

Good point, hadn't considered that.
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Sarah tells me there will be a black chassis option for the CSP2+ soon. Depending on what your Taboo looks like, that might be a reason to get on the list instead of buying used. Some might find that to be a silly reason though.


----------



## Argo Duck

The CSP2+ can be tuned neutral or warm to your preference.

On the Decware forums I've read that some (e.g. *Will*) tune their pre- warm and power-amp cool (you can go vice-versa of course), then adjust the relative levels to adjust their final sound., e.g. higher output level on the CSP2+ (with the power amp lowered to keep the final listening level comfortable) brings more warmth (low-down body). Or raise the power level/lower the pre to thin it out.

I run my Taboo straight from DAC, but I can see the advantage. It's easy to alter the balance between the two amps to suit your genre or preference at the time. No rolling required.

Somewhere round here Mike (zilch0mod, possibly the speaker-amps with headphones thread) has commented on the effect of the ZStage's adjustable output voltage on his Meier SS amp. It raises or lowers dynamics, something which Jan Meier confirmed in principle. If I can find the post I'll link it.

DACs - single ended - certainly do vary in their output levels. Among mine, the EE MiniMax puts out 2.5Vrms without tube, 3Vrms with; Meier Stagedac 2.2Vrms. These may not be typical - the Bifrost and Beresford Bushmaster output 2.0Vrms.

IIRC that black chassis version (or replacement) of the new CSP2 will have the beeswax caps, but would be wise to confirm that.


----------



## Argo Duck

This is the link.

It's a darn useful post, typically well-written. I misspelt his handle. Mike is zilch0md not 'mod!


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> This is the link.
> 
> It's a darn useful post, typically well-written. I misspelt his handle. Mike is zilch0md not 'mod!


 

 Having experimented with almost everything (Active Preamps=Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, CAT, Jadis, Sonic Frontiers,  VTL, Passive Preamps = Mod Squad, Goldpoint, DIY and no preamp at all) over the years in a speaker based system, IMHO it is always a tradeoff of purity vs dynamic range when deciding between preamp and no preamp (or passive controller).
   
  IF your source components are good, inserting a 'bad' preamp is worse than having no preamp at all.  A colored preamp can easily cloud the sound of a revealing/neutral source and amp combo especially when you consider it adds another run of interconnects (which themselves won't be perfectly neutral) in addition to the preamp itself.  At the end of the day it's all a matter of personal preference but I have never heard a ~2V source component /amp combo that could produce lifelike dynamics on any speakers I have owned or listened to for extended periods (everything from Maggies, Quads, Wilsons, Acoustats, B&Ks, Wisdoms, etc.).  IMHO I am hearing (or not hearing depending upon how you look at it) the same thing from my Taboo3/LCD2s being driven directly from a W4S DAC (2.0V unbalanced).
   
  Now there is no guaranteeing I will prefer the sound adding the CSP2+ I purchased (and additional pair of interconnects) to the mix using the LCD2s, but over the years when driving speakers I always preferred a preamp in between the source and the amp.  Just my 2cents.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have found that the CSP2+ & Taboo MK III Combo is noticeably superior than the Taboo alone.


----------



## WNBC

Ahh c'mon.  No need to rub it in.  With that type of challenge now I have to seriously consider one.  Anybody think a CSP3+ or other preamp is coming out of Decware in the next couple of years?  The Zen Ultra preamp is out of my range.   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have found that the CSP2+ & Taboo MK III Combo is noticeably superior than the Taboo alone.


----------



## longbowbbs

Steve told me that they are going to change the top color to the same black as the Taboo MK III. Knowing Steve, it would be unusual for him to just change the color...He can't help messing with perfection..


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Steve told me that they are going to change the top color to the same black as the Taboo MK III. Knowing Steve, it would be unusual for him to just change the color...He can't help messing with perfection..


 
   
  I've ordered the black top CSP2+ so we'll see if there's anything new


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice! I am torn. Looking at the pair I can't decide which top I like better....


----------



## funch

Just thought I'd drop a note in the 'for what it's worth' box. I just received a CSP2+/Taboo II combo that I traded for and had sent to Decware to be checked out and have the warranty
  transfered. I built an adapter cable that connects a female 4-pin XLR plug directly to the speaker outputs for my LCD2's. I've compared that connection to the TRS jack on the Taboo, and the
  direct-to-speaker connection is far superior to the phone jack.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks funch. I've been meaning to solder up such an adapter to try with my T2 as well. Your report is encouraging.

My cable terminates in a 4-pin TRS plug too. Could you supply details please - which pins to which spkr terminals? TIA


----------



## funch

The standard XLR pinout is:
  Pin 1 = L+
  Pin 2 = L-
  Pin 3 = R+
  Pin 4 = R-


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  This alone will likely be enough to fight the temptation to pick up the CSP2+ that have showed up in the forums.
   
  Finally got through all of the pages through this thread while enjoying Frank's MKIII 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Lots of useful tube suggestions.  I kept my precious 6922 tubes from my 2nd tube amp (Lyr).  Glad to have those Siemens CCa and Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 tubes still with me.
   
  With the MKII we could use 12AU7/T7/X7 tubes.  If popped those into the MKIII would that be bad or just not sound good?  I have a bunch with labels rubbed off so it would be easy to mistake it for a 6922 if not paying attention because the size is similar.
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Steve told me that they are going to change the top color to the same black as the Taboo MK III. Knowing Steve, it would be unusual for him to just change the color...He can't help messing with perfection..


----------



## longbowbbs

Good question...I have not tried any of the 12AU7 variants myself. I would give Steve a call. He is always happy to discuss tube choices...


----------



## Argo Duck

Whoa WNBC! Don't put 12xx7 tubes in the T3! Not the same tube family at all. Termination could result :eek:

Actually just playing on the name a bit - I don't know it would harm the T3 but I don't imagine 12v tubes run in place of 6v tubes would sound entirely right.

You are lucky having those Lyr tubes - I forgot I'd seen you in that thread!


----------



## WNBC

How often do you use your RS1 with the Taboo?  I'm thinking of picking up the Grado 325 but wondering if I have one Grado should I spring for the higher model.  325 would have the edgier treble and RS1 smoother?
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Whoa WNBC! Don't put 12xx7 tubes in the T3! Not the same tube family at all. Termination could result
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Almost never - the LCD2 (and T1 on the CSP2) are simply better. But gotta admit the RS1 sounds good with the Taboo, especially with Lucid. Ask Nick Dangerous - he's into the combo.

I never heard the 325. Have a 7-8 year old SR60 _which I haven't tried with Taboo_, which the RS1 (not surprisingly) leaves for dead. OTOH my son's SR125i sounds much better than I expected. May make the 325 worth auditioning.

I actually have found the RS1 terrific straight from an iPod when I'm away. Maybe I'm being less critical in these conditions, but that live, direct, raw (probably distortion ) feel comes through.



wnbc said:


> How often do you use your RS1 with the Taboo?  I'm thinking of picking up the Grado 325 but wondering if I have one Grado should I spring for the higher model.  325 would have the edgier treble and RS1 smoother?


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the input!  325i appears to be a good compromise between price-to-performance.
   
  Too many headphones out there I want to try with the Taboo but gotta be a little selective.  With the MKII I had the HE-500.  Had the LCD-2 with the Lyr.  Now wondering how good the LCD-2 is on the Taboo or thinking of trying something different like the LCD-3 or HD800.   Too many choices.
   
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Almost never - the LCD2 (and T1 on the CSP2) are simply better. But gotta admit the RS1 sounds good with the Taboo, especially with Lucid. Ask Nick Dangerous - he's into the combo.
> 
> I never heard the 325. Have a 7-8 year old SR60 _which I haven't tried with Taboo_, which the RS1 (not surprisingly) leaves for dead. OTOH my son's SR125i sounds much better than I expected. May make the 325 worth auditioning.
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

I found the LCD 2 on the mkII a *big* step up from the Lyr and all the other amps I tried. Generally (varied by amp) I got better highs, taut bass and notably better dynamics - almost as if it is decompressing. Detail was better too - probably an effect of the better macro and micro dynamics. However, these comparisons were without anything like the best tubes in the Lyr.

I'm curious about the HE500 myself...you liked this with the mkII?

I hear you about too many choices! I've decided to get the LCD 3 and, of course, very likely the ciunas dac.


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  I liked the LCD-2 on the Lyr so for it to scale up even more on the Taboo is a bonus.  Makes me think I need to hear different headphones before buying which is different then my usual buy/sell pattern.  Could save me a bunch of money if I end up shooting for price to performance vs flagship (LCD-2 vs LCD-3).  
   
  I really enjoyed the Taboo + DAC-2 + HE-500.   Taboo provided ample low end punch, palpable sweet midrange and for me an enjoyable tonality.  I am a moderately loud jazz listener and I often found myself pegged to the max on the volume for the Taboo MKII.  I probably could have benefited from a preamp like the CSP2+.  Now with the MKIII with less power I definitely would need a preamp.  I think low to moderate volume listeners will be fine but I can't imagine there will be a lot of headroom.  I found the HE-500 to sound best when being driven by a vintage amp and it's probably not all about power but it has a lot to do with it.  In the end there is room for both SS and tube amplification when it comes to the orthos.  The new lucid mode might help with the imaging and increasing the depth of the soundstage, which are weakpoints of underpowered HE-500 or maybe any headphone for that matter.     
   
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I found the LCD 2 on the mkII a *big* step up from the Lyr and all the other amps I tried. Generally (varied by amp) I got better highs, taut bass and notably better dynamics - almost as if it is decompressing. Detail was better too - probably an effect of the better macro and micro dynamics. However, these comparisons were without anything like the best tubes in the Lyr.
> 
> I'm curious about the HE500 myself...you liked this with the mkII?
> 
> I hear you about too many choices! I've decided to get the LCD 3 and, of course, very likely the ciunas dac.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ That's really helpful WNBC, thanks 

Agreed about room for SS too. Have been curious about vintage amps, hesitant to try my main power amp (250/8!), and on the headamp side have found the 2W Meier Classic gets real close to the the mk II.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> But gotta admit the RS1 sounds good with the Taboo, especially with Lucid. Ask Nick Dangerous - he's into the combo.


 
   
  Taboo + Grado = very fine combo! Lucid mode is perfect for expanding the pea-sized Grado soundstage which truly brings them to another level. It's actually my favorite amp to use with Grados.
   
  However... the main issue is component matching. Most people who spring for a Taboo usually get an LCD2/3 to pair with it. Which is probably why the Taboo + Grado combination isn't so commonly known.
   
  I can't stand the Grado 325. It's ear-bleedingly bright. Instant tinnitus. No thank you. I'd stick with the SR-225i which is the best price/performance headphone in their lineup. It gets you 85% of the way to the RS-1.


----------



## bearFNF

My 325is did not like the stock tubes in the Taboo MKIII, will need to try them with the tubes I have been rollin' through...


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  Thanks for the info.  85% of the way there with the 225i.  Problem is....shouldn't my first Grado be a woodie one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which means RS1 all the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Taboo + Grado = very fine combo! Lucid mode is perfect for expanding the pea-sized Grado soundstage which truly brings them to another level. It's actually my favorite amp to use with Grados.
> 
> However... the main issue is component matching. Most people who spring for a Taboo usually get an LCD2/3 to pair with it. Which is probably why the Taboo + Grado combination isn't so commonly known.
> 
> I can't stand the Grado 325. It's ear-bleedingly bright. Instant tinnitus. No thank you. I'd stick with the SR-225i which is the best price/performance headphone in their lineup. It gets you 85% of the way to the RS-1.


----------



## ZenTriode

Hi everyone...
  
 I've deleted the post that was here since it was so miss-understood.   I've been doing this a long time.  I question everything.  Sorry for the disturbance!
  
 Steve Deckert


----------



## Frank I

Clarify some of Steve  findings on the amp  Steve never sent me his personal amp he sent me the first production model which I found that the V200 outperformed it it in every way. The Maple unit was not Steve personal amp his is an white face amplifier with a Walnut base. I am enclosing the frrst production amp he sent me which clearly did not sound good and was returned. Steve called me and said he went to the bench and tested some other amps and agreed  and found that resistor installed was wrong and the amps were muddy. He stated they had 100ohm resistors and should have had 1 ohm resisitors.     Eric Nuff seen Steve production amp and it was clearly not the Maple one I was sent. Why Steve is confused about this has me bewildered.
   
   
  I found the WooWA5 300B and Dared 2A3 amps to fit my needs better and if Steve want to attack  me personally thats fine. I find most of this amusing because I decided that other products were better for my needs this whole transaction has been falsely stated..  Clearly I am not the one suffering from amnesia regarding all that transpired with the original amplifier. See the maple picture. THIS is the first amp I received and sent back because it was not right. I was told the resistor were wrong an have emails to prove it.  Here is the amp Steve sent me and only sent me after I paid him for it upfront so lets not get confused about sending me anything of your personal amps. I also have the cancelled check to show I bought the Maple Amplifier. That was the first sample. The second one was the Walnut Taboo that was recently sold to MNBC.


----------



## mwindham08




----------



## Kendoji

Wowsers.  Nice to read some of Steve's comments here, but definitely a little strange to hear direct criticism of competing products from him.
   
  Oh well, I'm just looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving in a few weeks.


----------



## OPR8R

I love to see Steve drop by and give us updates, but I hope Frank and Steve can resolve this (offline). Also, CSP3+? I need to give Sarah a call...


----------



## negura

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Steve


 
   
  Thanks for your detailed comments Steve. An interesting read. 
   
  However, it's still not very clear to me whether the current Taboo MK3 production units (say post April 2013) are tuned to be getting "very loud" or they are still somewhat limited. And can it be confirmed what's the expected dB SPL level when the Taboo MK3 is maxed out on the LCD-2 or LCD-3.
   


kendoji said:


> Wowsers.  Nice to read some of Steve's comments here, but definitely a little strange to hear direct criticism of competing products from him.
> 
> Oh well, I'm just looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving in a few weeks.


 

   
  I don't mind the comments alluding to competing solutions as I think this was to give insight into some of the design decisions. That said I much look forward comparing my Taboo to some of those competing solutions if/when I get the chance.


----------



## WNBC

Call for me too. 
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I love to see Steve drop by and give us updates, but I hope Frank and Steve can resolve this (offline). Also, CSP3+? I need to give Sarah a call...


----------



## ckc527

opr8r said:


> I love to see Steve drop by and give us updates, but I hope Frank and Steve can resolve this (offline). Also, CSP3+? I need to give Sarah a call...




+1

Please post what Sarah says.

Thanks
ckc


----------



## OPR8R

ckc527 said:


> +1
> 
> Please post what Sarah says.
> 
> ...



 
 As soon as I get a hold of someone there I'll let you know what I learn. I take it both of you are on the list for CSP2+'s?


----------



## ZenTriode

Sorry for not being more clear - I should have kept it short.  Not sure why Frank is getting defensive, I'm not trying to attack him or any manufactures and apologize if it's coming off that way.  Frank is right, I was confused about which amp I sent him, because we actually sent him both.  The first one (my personal unit which is white) we had to stop the shipment mid stream at Franks request since he would not be there to take delivery.  I then sent him the first production unit so he would not have to wait for the original amp to make it's way back here, be unpacked, tested, repacked and sent back out.  That said, it makes no difference which one it was, the point is simple.  My original choice was to sell the amps with a 100 ohm resistor to limit the power.  Frank didn't like it.  I lowered the value to increase the power into headphones and then he liked it.  The sound of the amp didn't change, it just gets louder now.  So the solid state amp didn't actually sound better, it sounded louder.  I suspect the same is true of the more powerful 300B amps.  Remember, just because something costs more doesn't mean it sounds better.  
   
  Steve
   
  P.S.  Just to nip a lot of CSP2 questions in the bud, we are coming out with a black plate CSP3 and there will be a price increase.  Anyone on the list for a CSP2 will be automatically upgraded to the CSP3 at no additional cost.


----------



## OPR8R

zentriode said:


> P.S.  Just to nip a lot of CSP2 questions in the bud, we are coming out with a black plate CSP3 and there will be a price increase.  Anyone on the list for a CSP2 will be automatically upgraded to the CSP3 at no additional cost.



 
 Yay! Thanks, ZenTriode!! Please let Dev know she can disregard the email I just sent her about this.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Make no mistake about it, I am after the best sound and go to great lengths to find it.  Profitability is not involved.  For that reason, despite being hounded to come out with either a 2A3 or 300B based headphone amplifier at the much higher price points, I’m just not going to do it.  They’re not going to sound better than a MK III in my opinion.
> 
> Steve


 
   
  Thank you Steve for stopping in to elaborate upon your design philosophy, as well as your dedication to bringing so many nice (and affordable) products to market. I very much enjoy my CSP2+ with the HD800 and have yet to find a better price/performing tube amp for it. Particularly one which looks as nice as it does.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 

Fantastic information from Steve. Sorry to see a misunderstanding develop there but I'm sure it will be quickly resolved, as obviously Frank has immense respect for Steve's designs.


----------



## longbowbbs

I wonder what new magic Steve is putting into the CSP3+? Dang hobby...


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I wonder what new magic Steve is putting into the CSP3+? Dang hobby...


 
  Ha ha!  For once I will be ahead of you in line


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Sorry for not being more clear - I should have kept it short.  Not sure why Frank is getting defensive, I'm not trying to attack him or any manufactures and apologize if it's coming off that way.  Frank is right, I was confused about which amp I sent him, because we actually sent him both.  The first one (my personal unit which is white) we had to stop the shipment mid stream at Franks request since he would not be there to take delivery.  I then sent him the first production unit so he would not have to wait for the original amp to make it's way back here, be unpacked, tested, repacked and sent back out.  *That said, it makes no difference which one it was, the point is simple.  My original choice was to sell the amps with a 100 ohm resistor to limit the power.  Frank didn't like it.  I lowered the value to increase the power into headphones and then he liked it.  The sound of the amp didn't change, it just gets louder now.  So the solid state amp didn't actually sound better, it sounded louder.  I suspect the same is true of the more powerful 300B amps.  Remember, just because something costs more doesn't mean it sounds better.  *
> 
> Steve
> 
> P.S.  Just to nip a lot of CSP2 questions in the bud, we are coming out with a black plate CSP3 and there will be a price increase.  Anyone on the list for a CSP2 will be automatically upgraded to the CSP3 at no additional cost.


 
  Sorry, but Frank's been around too long a time to not understand the differences between a great sounding amp vs. a loud sounding amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As well, your statement that "the solid state amp didn't actually sound better, it sounded louder" doesn't make sense to me as it was Frank's ears making the assessment between the Taboo III and the V200. Same goes for a 300B amp. Seems to me that Frank was only writing what he heard when he had all three amp in his house to listen to and review. Saying that what he was hearing wasn't better, just louder doesn't jive.


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Sorry, but Frank's been around too long a time to not understand the differences between a great sounding amp vs. a loud sounding amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 +1


----------



## ZenTriode

> Sorry, but Frank's been around too long a time to not understand the differences between a great sounding amp vs. a loud sounding amp.
> 
> 
> 
> As well, your statement that "the solid state amp didn't actually sound better, it sounded louder" doesn't make sense to me as it was Frank's ears making the assessment between the Taboo III and the V200. Same goes for a 300B amp. Seems to me that Frank was only writing what he heard when he had all three amp in his house to listen to and review. Saying that what he was hearing wasn't better, just louder doesn't jive.


 
   
  I agree.  What I was trying to communicate is that Frank said his solid state amp sounded much better than the Taboo Mk III when he first heard it.  After realizing he listens to it much louder than I do, and that probably a lot of other people do as well, I made the amp louder without changing it's sound and sent it back to him.  After hearing the louder version, then Frank said the Taboo Mk III sounded much better than the solid state.  Since the only change was volume, not sound quality, the perception of "better" made me realize several things, one of which is that the production run of Taboo MK III's must all play louder than I originally thought.  
   
  Steve


----------



## negura

I've just received my Taboo MK3 and I have to say I am very impressed. It's connected to my Burson Conductor DAC out and from the very first few minutes listening I realized this Decware bloke is classes above the Burson Soloist. I did obviously expect the Taboo to be better, but did not not expect it to be THIS good. It feel pointless to go into details, as it does seemingly everything better, but I will do that in the coming days when I have some more time.
   
  This is with the LCD-3s single ended. My balanced Silver Widow cable should be here in a few days. By then the Taboo should have some proper burn-in and I will post back with more impressions.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> I've just received my Taboo MK3 and I have to say I am very impressed. It's connected to my Burson Conductor DAC out and from the very first few minutes listening I realized this Decware bloke is classes above the Burson Soloist. I did obviously expect the Taboo to be better, but did not not expect it to be THIS good. It feel pointless to go into details, as it does seemingly everything better, but I will do that in the coming days when I have some more time.
> 
> This is with the LCD-3s single ended. My balanced Silver Widow cable should be here in a few days. By then the Taboo should have some proper burn-in and I will post back with more impressions.


 





  Grats!
   
  You'll like the balanced connection.


----------



## negura

Probably old news to some, but thought to share some pics.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





negura said:


> Probably old news to some, but thought to share some pics.


 
  Very Nice
  A clean & spacious setup-congrads,


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Probably old news to some, but thought to share some pics.


 
   
  Black on black looks slick.


----------



## Kendoji

Yeah that looks fantastic.


----------



## negura

I just had to get my speakers on the Taboo. These are 96db Horn Loaded, bespoke British design.
   
  First impressions:
  Volume wise, Taboo drives them to fill the room with no problems and it gets very loud. Definetely louder than my listening levels.
  I happen to be able to leverage the preamp inside the Burson Conductor which is supposed to be a very capable one. Using the preamp output + the Taboo it's simply magic. You get clearly better dynamics, details, better defined soundstaging and imaging and of course even more volume. I think a good preamp is very worthwhile when using the Taboo with speakers. I have not had the time to decide whether I prefer the preamp out with headphones and it's way too early for this assessment. 
   
  But since I am also using the speakers I am now also very tempted by the CSP. Decisions, decisions...
   
  The untidy side of my setup:


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> I just had to get my speakers on the Taboo. These are 96db Horn Loaded, bespoke British design.
> 
> First impressions:
> Volume wise, Taboo drives them to fill the room with no problems and probably significantly louder than I would prefer to listen regularly.
> ...




Looks very inviting. I wanna hear.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Oooo nice horns. Fostex full-range?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Oooo nice horns. Fostex full-range?


 
   
   
  Yup full range + FT17H tweeter. The Taboo does them good justice. 
   


opr8r said:


> Looks very inviting. I wanna hear.


   
  Anytime you're in London.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Probably old news to some, but thought to share some pics.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
  Congrats negura! The black on black looks great! Welcome to the club and I sure you won't be tempted by the soon to be available NEW and EXCITING CSP3+...


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats negura! The black on black looks great! Welcome to the club and I sure you won't be tempted by the soon to be available NEW and EXCITING CSP3+...


 
   
  Thanks bud. Good day to have to work from home today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wife asked for impressions about the Taboo earlier on. I was pleased to be able to invite her to hear it herself without having to take my headphones off. She was very assertive, I think there were a few wows and she thought the Soloist sounds muddy and "unclear" in comparison. She also loved the bass on the Taboo. That was with the LCD-3s, apparently her new favourite headphones....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Soooooo.....His and Hers pairs of LCD-3's?


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> Soooooo.....His and Hers pairs of LCD-3's?




This is why I'm keeping my LCD-2's. Nevermind that I'm single.


----------



## longbowbbs

Mine....My Own....My PRECIOUS!!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Mine....My Own....My PRECIOUS!!


 

 When are you going to get a balanced cable for those beautiful babies?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a Toxic cable coming but it is SE....I may have Frank make up an XLR adapter for me....


----------



## Audioexcels

Gotta ask...there's a ton of people that hear zero difference between rectifiers, be it an SS diode or tube.  Others as has been discussed here can hear differences.  Is this something to do with the fact that the voltages change OR are we talking that if we have an amp that uses say, 5AR4 type rectifier tube, there is an audible difference between different 5AR4's that are tested/spec out identically, but simply sound different?
   
  I have heard a great difference between SS and tubed rectification but do not know if it is a result of voltage changes at the circuit itself...like if I used a different resistor value in my circuit, I'm sure to hear the same kind of sound difference.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats negura! The black on black looks great! Welcome to the club and I sure you won't be tempted by the soon to be available NEW and EXCITING CSP3+...


 
   
  Damn you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've placed an order for the CSP as I am not thrilled with adding the solid state preamp in the chain, although as I said adding a preamp does kick things up a notch with speakers. But what it also does, it takes away from the Taboo magic. I am actually preferring to listen to the Taboo on its own for the sound signature at the moment.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am not an engineer, so I have no idea about the science of different tubes. However, each does provide their own sonic signature. Sometimes it is a subtle difference. Once in a while you will find one that makes things ..right.. I am very pleased with my current configuration so I find I don't roll a lot now.


----------



## negura

So has anyone figured a good quick way to connect/disconnect the speakers when you only want to listen to headphones on the Taboo? Anything clever like a small switchbox/whatever that won't pollute the sound?
  Wife/neighboors aren't that much into metal music I'm afraid.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Got my CSP2+ today to go with my Taboo 3.  Haven't listened long enough to know for sure whether or not I like the Taboo better with or without it but I am leaning toward with...
   
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to set the various gain pots for the best sound?  The CSP2+ has input and output pots in addition to the Alps volume control and my Taboo has a stepped attenuator in addition to the two output gain pots.  My first thought was that the Alps volume control might be the weakest link (so I planned to set it wide open) , certainly not as clean as the Taboo attenuator but then the preamp came and I realized it had input/output pots which probably aren't as high a quality as either volume control.
  
   
  Any help greatly appreciated!


----------



## longbowbbs

negura said:


> So has anyone figured a good quick way to connect/disconnect the speakers when you only want to listen to headphones on the Taboo? Anything clever like a small switchbox/whatever that won't pollute the sound?
> Wife/neighboors aren't that much into metal music I'm afraid.




I use banana plugs for quick speaker removal. Early AM listening needs to be quiet.


----------



## longbowbbs

ihmeyers said:


> Got my CSP2+ today to go with my Taboo 3.  Haven't listened long enough to know for sure whether or not I like the Taboo better with or without it but I am leaning toward with...
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to set the various gain pots for the best sound?  The CSP2+ has input and output pots in addition to the Alps volume control and my Taboo has a stepped attenuator in addition to the two output gain pots.  My first thought was that the Alps volume control might be the weakest link (so I planned to set it wide open) , certainly not as clean as the Taboo attenuator but then the preamp came and I realized it had input/output pots which probably aren't as high a quality as either volume control.
> 
> ...




I spent several listening sessions playing with the CSP2+ settings and finally found what worked for me. I have the Taboo attenuator at max so the CSP2+ controls all volume.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Was that the most convenient or best sounding?

I wonder if it will matter that my Taboo has a higher quality volume control than the CSP2+ ?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Was that the most convenient or best sounding?
> 
> I wonder if it will matter that my Taboo has a higher quality volume control than the CSP2+ ?


 
  Most convenient and best sounding. I am not going to drop $2700 on amps and ham string them for convenience. The benefit of not having the stepped attenuator is being able to listen at any volume level without constraint of a step.


----------



## IHMEYERS

I just set mine up the same way and agree 100%.
   
  I think the best way to go is the Taboo fully open with the CSP2+ controlling volume.  Its sounding pretty good now even though the new tubes I put in are far from broken in.
   
  Thanks for the tip.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> I just set mine up the same way and agree 100%.
> 
> I think the best way to go is the Taboo fully open with the CSP2+ controlling volume.  Its sounding pretty good now even though the new tubes I put in are far from broken in.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.


----------



## funch

I need a favor, and thought I'd ask it here since this thread seems to be getting a lot of posts from people who may know what I need to know.
   
  If anyone here has a CSP2+ with the Beeswax cap's, could you peek under the hood and tell me what the value is. The film coupling cap's in
  mine are stock, and are .68uF, but the Jensen cap's only come in .47uF and 1.0uF.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Argo Duck

I don't think the beeswax version has been released yet. Might be worth checking the decware forums - link at decware's site.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I don't think the beeswax version has been released yet. Might be worth checking the decware forums - link at decware's site.


 
  +1


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





funch said:


> I need a favor, and thought I'd ask it here since this thread seems to be getting a lot of posts from people who may know what I need to know.
> 
> If anyone here has a CSP2+ with the Beeswax cap's, could you peek under the hood and tell me what the value is. The film coupling cap's in
> mine are stock, and are .68uF, but the Jensen cap's only come in .47uF and 1.0uF.
> ...


 

 Do you have the CSP2+? Mine came with 0.33uf, not Beeswax though. Is this the cap on the pins 1/7 of output tubes? or the output cap to preamp?
  The value in Morgan jones headphone amp (similar design) is 0.47uf.


----------



## funch

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I don't think the beeswax version has been released yet. Might be worth checking the decware forums - link at decware's site.


 
   
  The beeswax  cap's are an option on the CSP2+.


----------



## ZenTriode

The CSP2 and CSP2+ come stock with G.E. Film caps of either 0.33uf or 0.68uf.  This defines the acceptable range of values that can be used. The reason Jupiter Beeswax and or the VCAPS are not an option now, is because of their physical size relative to the stock caps.  Proper installation of either of these caps would require alterations to the internal layout if you ever plan to ship the preamp anywhere.  The new CSP3 that's just around the corner will have the Jupiter Beeswax caps as an option because I will be completely changing both the internal and external layout of the preamp.  The value we will be using for this option is 0.47uf.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Steve


----------



## WNBC

Hi Steve,

Can we get on the list for this new CSP3+ now or still a bit away? I was originally thinking the CSP3+ was going to be a cosmetic change in the top black cover but now we have the option of the different caps.




zentriode said:


> The CSP2 and CSP2+ come stock with G.E. Film caps of either 0.33uf or 0.68uf.  This defines the acceptable range of values that can be used. The reason Jupiter Beeswax and or the VCAPS are not an option now, is because of their physical size relative to the stock caps.  Proper installation of either of these caps would require alterations to the internal layout if you ever plan to ship the preamp anywhere.  The new CSP3 that's just around the corner will have the Jupiter Beeswax caps as an option because I will be completely changing both the internal and external layout of the preamp.  The value we will be using for this option is 0.47uf.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve


----------



## negura

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Can we get on the list for this new CSP3+ now or still a bit away? I was originally thinking the CSP3+ was going to be a cosmetic change in the top black cover but now we have the option of the different caps.


 
   
  Good question, from a previous post I understood if we order the CSP2+ it will be upgraded to CSP3 for no additional cost, so I've ordered one and put a note regarding the CSP3. It looks like the order has been accepted and it's on the list. Assuming this was well understood, my question is: Can we request the custom options later on when they are known?


----------



## WNBC

I was thinking it was just the black cover option. The caps would cost extra right and that was not factored into the original price paid by the person placing the CSP2+ order? Then the caps won't fit into the CSP2+ frame but the black cover no problem. CSP3+ is a different beast. Exciting stuff though. Congrats to you guys already in line.




negura said:


> Good question, from a previous post I understood if we order the CSP2+ it will be upgraded to CSP3 for no additional cost,
> so I've ordered one and put a note regarding the CSP3. It looks like the order has been accepted and it's on the list. Assuming this was well understood, my question is: Can we request the custom options later on when they are known?


----------



## negura

At around how many hours are any break-in changes expected with the Beeswax MK3?
   
  I think there's been a signficant tick in SQ today. That's between 48 and 72 hours from new.


----------



## TIMITS

I have been reading this thread with interest.  It looks like the MK3 will be a great choice for my Audio Technica ATH-3000ANV and Smeggy Thunderpants headphones. But I also have a pair of Final Audio Design Piano Forte earphones which I love listening to.  Just wondering if anyone is using the MK3 for their earphones and what your experiences have been.


----------



## OPR8R

QuotI'me:


timits said:


> I have been reading this thread with interest.  It looks like the MK3 will be a great choice for my Audio Technica ATH-3000ANV and Smeggy Thunderpants headphones. But I also have a pair of Final Audio Design Piano Forte earphones which I love listening to.  Just wondering if anyone is using the MK3 for their earphones and what your experiences have been.


 
   
  I'm guessing the Taboo will be a sweet match with your ATH3000's.  
   
  I've never seen those Final Audio Design Piano Forte earphones.  They look pretty sweet.


----------



## ZenTriode

Quote: 





negura said:


> Good question, from a previous post I understood if we order the CSP2+ it will be upgraded to CSP3 for no additional cost, so I've ordered one and put a note regarding the CSP3. It looks like the order has been accepted and it's on the list. Assuming this was well understood, my question is: Can we request the custom options later on when they are known?


 
   
  Yes, once I have the first production sample built and photographed, I'll be updating the web page for the CSP2+ and will be contacting everyone on the list so they can visit the page and decide if they want any additional options.  I am still waiting for the new chassis to get done.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





zentriode said:


> Yes, once I have the first production sample built and photographed, I'll be updating the web page for the CSP2+ and will be contacting everyone on the list so they can visit the page and decide if they want any additional options.  I am still waiting for the new chassis to get done.


 
  Can't wait to see it.  Exciting!


----------



## dan.gheorghe

zentriode said:


> Yes, once I have the first production sample built and photographed, I'll be updating the web page for the CSP2+ and will be contacting everyone on the list so they can visit the page and decide if they want any additional options.  I am still waiting for the new chassis to get done.



Hey guys. I only heard great stuff about the taboo mk3 from my friend negura. I was wondering about the soon to come csp3 how will it be just as a headphone amp compared to mk3? I would use hd800 and lcd3 eventually with it. I know that taboo has a speaker amp also, which I do not need. Do you have a stripped version of the mk3, or is cdp3 comparable just as headphone amp? 

Thank you,

Dan


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





dan.gheorghe said:


> Hey guys. I only heard great stuff about the taboo mk3 from my friend negura. I was wondering about the soon to come csp3 how will it be just as a headphone amp compared to mk3? I would use hd800 and lcd3 eventually with it. I know that taboo has a speaker amp also, which I do not need. Do you have a stripped version of the mk3, or is cdp3 comparable just as headphone amp?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Dan


 
   
  I haven't tried the Taboo MKIII yet... but I did own the Taboo MKII and it was not an optimal match with the HD800. Nor did I prefer the full CSP2+ -> Taboo MKII -> HD800 chain. The CSP2+ by itself was far superior.
   
  Thus, my educated guess of the suitability* for HD800 *would be (from best to worst): CSP3+ > CSP2+ > (significant gap) > Taboo MKIII > Taboo MKII.
   
  I don't believe the CSP will drive the LCD. Decision time. You'll need a Taboo and a CSP to get the most out of both headphones. You could get by with a Taboo alone, but I don't understand the reasoning of purchasing a $1500 headphone to use under suboptimal conditions. Would be better to specialize in one headphone and use the extra money on a good DAC.


----------



## funch

The CSP is better suited at driving high-impedance 'phones, like the Senn. HD series. It is an OTL design, which seems to work much better with the HD's.
   
  The Taboo's, being essentially power amps, are better at driving 'phones that need more power, like the planars. They use output transformers; hence, they're not the best choice for high-impedence 'phones.
   
  Hope that clears things up.


----------



## negura

To me one thing is very clear after the last few days with the Taboo MK3. The HD800s have fantastic synergy with it. Many people use the Burson Soloist/Conductor with the HD800s in this community and it's a very good solution for around the $1000 USD. The Taboo is a couple of classes above. And this is with stock tubes, single ended and about 120-130 hours on the Taboo. I am not surprised about the synergy with the LCD-3s, after all it's even marketed as such. But I was surprised just how well the HD800s are scaling on it.
   
  That said, I am also using speakers and I have also ordered the CSP3, mainly, for that purpose.


----------



## Kendoji

I am glad to hear that, as I just received my HD 800 today and am hoping it will sound good with my Taboo once it arrives.  I believe Frank commented in his review that the HD 800 was 'a revelation' with the Taboo MKIII - which helped me over the edge in my decision to get the Sennheisers.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I am glad to hear that, as I just received my HD 800 today and am hoping it will sound good with my Taboo once it arrives.  I believe Frank commented in his review that the HD 800 was 'a revelation' with the Taboo MKIII - which helped me over the edge in my decision to get the Sennheisers.


 
   
  100% agree with Frank's findings regarding the HD800s and Taboo MK3.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys,

Thank you for the answers. And Negura....you are killing me.. ) . After I get my LCD3 I hope i get my hands on a Taboo too.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dan.gheorghe said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Thank you for the answers. And Negura....you are killing me..
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're welcomed bro.  Sorry for your wallet.
   
  Gang, once I figure out how much burn-in the Taboo needs, I've got a few NOS goodies in a box to swap around. Keep you all posted.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Rectifier question.
   
  Based upon Nick's recommendation I swapped the Valve Art 274B rectifier for a NOS 5Y3GB Mazda(5Y3GT) I bought on ebay.  I am breaking it in now and it sounds pretty good.  What's weird (and concerning) is that the bias meters are going a little crazy with that tube in there, varying from 25 to 37 on the meter along with the CD.  When the Valve Art was in it was always a steady ~30ish.  Is this a problem?
   
  Thanks!
   
  P.S.  I should add it only happens with the Stereophile CD break-in noise track.  The bias meters are steady on music tracks.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Rectifier question.
> 
> Based upon Nick's recommendation I swapped the Valve Art 274B rectifier for a NOS 5Y3GB Mazda(5Y3GT) I bought on ebay.  I am breaking it in now and it sounds pretty good.  What's weird (and concerning) is that the bias meters are going a little crazy with that tube in there, varying from 25 to 37 on the meter along with the CD.  When the Valve Art was in it was always a steady ~30ish.  Is this a problem?
> 
> ...


 
  IH,
  Did you oreder the French Military vesrion
  Mine came in yesterday,& I'm using it with the TabooII
  I'm finding it pretty good,but it sure does run HOT


----------



## IHMEYERS

Yes.
   
  Here is the listing...
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Y3GB-Mazda-5Y3GT-NOS-rectifier-vacuum-tube-1-pc-/230970025209?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35c6e2e4f9


----------



## mikek200

Yup,thats the one...Use it in Good Health...
  Is it running hot?


----------



## OPR8R

Weird. With my rectifier (Philips 5R4GYS) the bias meters are rock solid at around 32-ish. I had similar readings with the stock tubes, though one tube was a little, tiny bit weaker than the other.


----------



## mikek200

IH,
  Another recommendation from Nick:
   
    http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/06/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.html?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
   
  Thunderous base,clean sound,excellent detail/price...nice seoeration of instruments
  The seller is outstanding,..quick replies,and fast shipping,answered all of my e-mails within 24 hours
  These are NOS tubes...


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> IH,
> Another recommendation from Nick:
> 
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/06/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.html?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
> ...


 
   
  Yep.... that RCA 5Y3GT is a great, cheap, reasonably available rectifier for the Taboo or CSP. Have a look at my "Rectifier Rolling Roundup" back in this thread... it did quite well considering the competition:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread/780#post_9569043


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Yep.... that RCA 5Y3GT is a great, cheap, reasonably available rectifier for the Taboo or CSP. Have a look at my "Rectifier Rolling Roundup" back in this thread... it did quite well considering the competition:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread/780#post_9569043


 

 Nick,
   
  I have been buying tubes on ebay based upon your recommendations.  I have a RCA 5Y3GT coming in the mail.
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## mikek200

Nick,
  It's the new BIble..nice work,great review ,& your descriptions are right on the money.
   
  Tnx


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Thanks everyone. Cheat sheets like the RRR can help you "start at the top", but it can also be rewarding to pick up a handful of cheap tubes and learn as you go. Besides, not everyone might agree with my list.


----------



## IHMEYERS

CSP2+ Tube Rolling.
   
  Just found about 6 CV2493's in my NOS tube box.  I had forgotten about them and actually had to look them.  They are Mullard gold pins Milspec tubes.  I guess I bought them about 12 years ago, I think from Upscale Audio and they sound pretty good in the CSP2+.
   
  Anyone have any experience with them??
   
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-CV2493-%7B47%7D-6922.html


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> CSP2+ Tube Rolling.
> 
> Just found about 6 CV2493's in my NOS tube box.  I had forgotten about them and actually had to look them.  They are Mullard gold pins Milspec tubes.  I guess I bought them about 12 years ago, I think from Upscale Audio and they sound pretty good in the CSP2+.
> 
> ...


 
  I bought 2 pair ,when I had the Lyr.,about a year ago,when I was in the grips of "Tubitis"
  They were made for the Swedish Airforce-brand new,ran me $400.00 for both pair
  My 2nd favorite tube,second only to the Lorenz Stuttgarts.
   
  Hold on to them...they are an outstanding tube,& will increase in value
  Very nice find.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I bought 2 pair ,when I had the Lyr.,about a year ago,when I was in the grips of "Tubitis"
> They were made for the Swedish Airforce-brand new,ran me $400.00 for both pair
> My 2nd favorite tube,second only to the Lorenz Stuttgarts.
> 
> ...


 
   


 Thanks Mike.  I will keep them.  I don't even remember for sure why I bought them.  I think it was for my Sonic Frontiers Line Stage but I never used them.  Maybe I'll try one in the Taboo too.  The need to break-in some but they are very detailed and musical, maybe a tough brighter than I like but I am hoping that the top will smooth out some over time.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Don't put them in the Taboo! It doesn't take 6922 types.

edit: only true for Taboo MKII... thx clowkoy for the update.


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Don't put them in the Taboo! It doesn't take 6922 types.


 
   


 The Taboo mkiii takes 6922/6N1P.


----------



## IHMEYERS

I haven't yet but I think I'll be OK.  The Taboo 3 manual says...
   
*"the input stage is compatible with 6922,7308 and some 6DJ8 or 6N1P-EV."*
   
  Right now I have a Brimar ECC88 and it works fine. 
   
  I guess I should let the new rectifier burn in on the amp before I swap out the input tube or else I will have no control sample.


----------



## Charnwood

My Taboo has just entered the Shipping Department, but I notice orders seem to have been lingering there the last few weeks for some reason.


----------



## Kendoji

The list has been ticking along nicely recently I think. I'm on page 2 now, with only two Taboos above mine waiting to get started. Won't be much longer I hope!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> My Taboo has just entered the Shipping Department, but I notice orders seem to have been lingering there the last few weeks for some reason.


 
  Sarah,was on maternity leave,and the whole shop was backed up,including shipping
  According to Devon,Sarah kind of keeps things flowing there..so??
   
  Enjoy you new Taboo...


----------



## Nick Dangerous

clowkoy said:


> The Taboo mkiii takes 6922/6N1P.




Aha! Somehow I missed this. MKIII has been converted to use 6922 types, eh? Very interesting. 

Now I really have to hear one and compare against the CSP2+ since I can use the same signal & rectifier tubes. Very cool.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yeah Steve explained quite a lot of his changes in the new Taboo thread over in the Decware forums. IIRC he felt the 6922 would be better quality than the ECC. May have had something to do with helping increase the gain too???

Probably safer to have compatible driver tubes...I just know one of these days I'm going to put the wrong tube in the Taboo II or CSP2 :eek:


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Rectifier question.
> 
> . . . . What's weird (and concerning) is that the bias meters are going a little crazy with that tube in there, varying from 25 to 37 on the meter along with the CD.  When the Valve Art was in it was always a steady ~30ish.  Is this a problem?
> 
> ...


 
   
  According to what Steve D told me, when the meters are "dancing" up and down it means the output of the amp is nearing clipping. When the meters drop, like a rock, to "0" you are clipping the amp. When they remain rock solid you are within the acceptable operating zone of the amp's 4.5 watt output. If memory serves, this  info was also given by Steve either in a post on the Decware forums or in one of the videos he made about how the amps with the new meters are tested (there are at least 2 such videos on the Decware site and YouTube which refer to the SE34I.3 "Rachael" and Taboo III).
   
  Also, different rectifiers have different voltage drops (which do affect the overall sound) and which may (or may not) have something to do with the meters dancing about. I have substituted the Valve Art 274B, Philips 5R4GYS and one Chinese 5U4G with no change in the meters rock steady performance on my Omega 3Es which are 8 ohm, 94db speakers. Since I use a nearfield desktop setup, I rarely have need to turn the volume up past 12 o'clock with my CSP+/Taboo III/Omega 3E setup. No doubt, speakers with less than 94db efficiency (the minimum recommended for the Taboo III by Steve) could also have a bearing on the issue as they will require more power. I can certainly see how a "Stereophile CD break-in noise track" might cause the meter dancing you describe. I wouldn't worry about it, just lower the volume. BTW, Steve simply recommends playing music for the break-in: 5 hours on, 5 hours off  for 5 cycles.


----------



## negura

Good news from the mailman today, with a pair of these. Will be posting impressions a bit later.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Very nice.  Look like NOS 6DJ8/6922.  Don't recognize the logo.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Very nice.  Look like NOS 6DJ8/6922.  Don't recognize the logo.


 
   
   
  It is a 6922. I am comparing it to the stock tube, compiling impressions and will be posting them shortly.
  Meanwhile let's see if anyone recognizes it from that shaky phone pic.


----------



## mikek200

Amperex SQ ??


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Amperex SQ ??


 

 Could be wrong, but it looks like PQ.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Amperex SQ ??


 

   
  Quote:


opr8r said:


> Could be wrong, but it looks like PQ.


 
   
  Yes, it is an Amperex 6922 PQ. There is a little more to it, but it may be difficult to spot that in the picture & it's only if you somehow know what to look for. (This was a tip by the way).


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Yes, it is an Amperex 6922 PQ. There is a little more to it, but it may be difficult to spot that in the picture & it's only if you somehow know what to look for. (This was a tip by the way).


 

 Where did you get that?!  Pinch waist?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Where did you get that?!  Pinch waist?


 
   
  That's them. I looked for one for many months. And eventually I found not one but two, for a fair price.


----------



## mwindham08

I saw a pair sell on ebay for 600 dollars a few months ago.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> That's them. I looked for one for many months. And eventually I found not one but two, for a fair price.


 

 Grats.  I look forward to your impressions.  I went with Orange Globes because even if I could get my hand on a set of white labels, or even better pinch waists, I don't know what I'd do if/when they go bad.  I'm hoping Orange Globes continue to be pretty easy to find, and relatively inexpensive.  It's great that you got a fair deal.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I saw a pair sell on ebay for 600 dollars a few months ago.


 
   
  I know. I guess I was very lucky with what I got them for. I'd never be able to justify that kind of price.
   
   


opr8r said:


> Grats.  I look forward to your impressions.  I went with Orange Globes because even if I could get my hand on a set of white labels, or even better pinch waists, I don't know what I'd do if/when they go bad.  I'm hoping Orange Globes continue to be pretty easy to find, and relatively inexpensive.  It's great that you got a fair deal.


 

   
  I have one Orange Globes. It was my previous go to tube. Very good tube.
  Almost there with the summary of impressions.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote:  





> Almost there with the summary of impressions.


----------



## negura

*Introduction:*
  This is the Amperex 6922, PQ, Made in USA, pinched waist. Has shield and D getter. Stamped 907, which to my rough guesswork puts it between mid-1958 and early 1959. I've been on the hunt for one of these for many months now and as you may know they are an extremely rare find. When they do pop they are also extremely expensive, but I so happened to come accross a great deal on this pair. Was it worth it? Let's see.
   

   
*Traits:*
  - Best treble extension and spark I've ever heard in a 6922. Very natural reproduction of percussive instruments. Top shelf level of details, yet no grain or harshness. No hint of sibilance.
  - Extremely detailed
  - Superbly open 3d soundstage
  - Very controlled and yet deep punchy bass
  - Exceptional dynamics
  - Very airy with superb instrument separation
  - Clean and inviting mids
   
*Cons:*
  - very rare
  - cost. can go extremely expensive thanks to sharks and people with more money than me
  - what do you do when it's eventually going to go out. Haven't figured out the answer to this one yet.
   
    
*Summary:*
  What this tube manages to achieve is impecable technical abilities, while never sounding analytic. I would describe it as refined, very lively, dynamic, superbly extended at both ends and transparent. I have to admit the hype for this tube is justified. It's the best 6DJ8/6922 I have ever heard.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> *Introduction:*
> This is the Amperex 6922, PQ, Made in USA, pinched waist. Has shield and D getter. Stamped 907, which to my rough guesswork puts it between mid-1958 and early 1959. I've been on the hunt for one of these for many months now and as you may know they are an extremely rare find. When they do pop they are also extremely expensive, but I so happened to come accross a great deal on this pair. Was it worth it? Let's see.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I've read similar reviews so I'm not surprised to see you're having similar experiences on the Taboo.  Just wish these tubes weren't so darned rare.


----------



## negura

Rectifiers next, but will take me longer to complete comparing and post findings.
   
  USAF-596
  GEC/Marconi U52
  Brimar 5R4GY
  Valve Art 274B
  RCA 5Y3 GT (on the way)
   
  The stock output tubes are growing on me quite a lot, any suggestions of what may work better? I only have a pair of Amperex EL84 at the moment and the Russian 6P15P-ER (the special long life edition, gold plates). The latter however are new and in dire need of burn-in which isn't a priority for me yet.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Rectifiers next, but will take me longer to compare and post findings.
> 
> USAF-596
> GEC/Marconi U52
> ...


 

 I very much like Philips EL84's.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I very much like Philips EL84's.


 
   
  How would you describe them in summary compared to the 6p15p


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> How would you describe them in summary compared to the 6p15p


 

 Better bass.  With the combination of Philips 5R4GYS and Amperex Orange Globe, I felt like the only thing "off" was that I felt like I could get more bass slam out of my LCD-3's.  The EL84's did the trick.  They're really good, strong tubes.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Better bass.  With the combination of Philips 5R4GYS and Amperex Orange Globe, I felt like the only thing "off" was that I felt like I could get more bass slam out of my LCD-3's.  The EL84's did the trick.  They're really good, strong tubes.


 
   
  I was very pleased with the Taboo in terms of bass slam to begin with. I have actually ended up with too much bass a couple of days ago for my liking on the LCD-3s. And that's with the 6p15p. I am currently detuning some bass out of my system. I was previously using the Oyaide 2075RR RCAs (OCC copper). Man are those cables bass monsters or what. Swapped them with Morrow RCAs which are more evenly distributed accross the range.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> I was very pleased with the Taboo in terms of bass slam to begin with. I have actually ended up with too much bass a couple of days ago for my liking on the LCD-3s. And that's with the 6p15p. I am currently detuning some bass out of my system. I was previously using the Oyaide 2075RR RCAs (OCC copper). Man are those cables bass monsters or what. Swapped them with Morrow RCAs which are more evenly distributed accross the range.


 

 I think Steve did a really good job at picking tubes for the new Taboo that sound really, really good and aren't terribly expensive and hard to find.  I think in the end all I've done is given my system a bit more balance, and better extension up top and down low.  I think if I put the stock rectifier back in, the Philips EL84's might be a bit much down low though.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I think Steve did a really good job at picking tubes for the new Taboo that sound really, really good and aren't terribly expensive and hard to find.  I think in the end all I've done is given my system a bit more balance, and better extension up top and down low.  I think if I put the stock rectifier back in, the Philips EL84's might be a bit much down low though.


 
   
  Ditto. I am impressed with the stock selection, even more so considering the cost. 
   
  The 6922 pinched waist just gave me a fresh perspective on my rectifiers. It's also a very good benchmark tube, being so detailed and transparent. Enjoying the Brimar at the moment and temporarily swapped out the USAF-596.


----------



## mwindham08

I'm really enjoying the tungsgram el 84s. I've only had them a few days but they seem to be similar to the phillips el 84s but I think i may like them more. I'll have to listen a while longer to decide. 




negura said:


> Rectifiers next, but will take me longer to complete comparing and post findings.
> 
> 
> USAF-596
> ...


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Ditto. I am impressed with the stock selection, even more so considering the cost.
> 
> The 6922 pinched waist just gave me a fresh perspective on my rectifiers. It's also a very good benchmark tube, being so detailed and transparent. Enjoying the Brimar at the moment and temporarily swapped out the USAF-596.


 
  Awesome.  I seriously am going to visit you when I'm in London next.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Need help/recommendations...
   
  About 30 minutes ago my PS Audio Multiwave P300 went kablooey, totally dead.  Unfortuantly it took out the rectifiers in the Taboo and CSP2+ (relatively inexpensive) and the two fuses (cheap, thank G-d).  WHen I replaced the rectifiers and the fuses both amps seemed OK.  Now I have to figure out how to replace the P300.
  
   
  Don't want to spend a fortune, that unit was 12+ years old and I am assuming PS Audio has since come out with better/sounding cheaper replacements, especially if I buy one used.  Any recommendations for PS Audio owners?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Ian
   
  P.S. Dumb question but does the P300 multiwave have a fuse?  I see the new units do but I can't find one on my Multiwave.


----------



## negura

[Nevermind: I just realized the output is 230V so no good for the US. But I will leave this note here for any EU/UK/AUS people)]
   
  Sorry to hear. I just bought an English made regenerator a friend recommended and it's going to be with me tomorrow. Right now it's on 1/3 off. This is the 500W one.  Original price was I think £400, then reduced to £300 and you can now use voucher code: summer at checkout. Will let you know with my findings.
   
   
http://www.powerinspired.com/ag-series-ac-power-regenerator/
   
  A lot of these people seem to be very pleased:
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?70097-AC-ReGenerator/page4&highlight=ag500


----------



## IHMEYERS

Thanks for the tip.  I'd love to get this fixed if I could; who knows it could be something as simple as a blown resistor somewhere.
   
  From reading reviews it seems as if the new P5 is better than the old multiwave but those are $$$ so I guess I will give PS Audio a call tomorrow and see what they suggest.
  
   
  Nevermind...Located the fuse, yup it's blown.  Will replace tomorrow and hope for the best...


----------



## IHMEYERS

Unfortunately for me the PS Audio unit is dead.  Replaced the fuse (twice) this afternoon and it blew both times as soon as I turned it on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The good news is that there is no damage to the CSP2+ or the Taboo.  Once I replaced the fuses in both it turned right on.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think what happened is the Sovtek 5Y3GT rectifier blew in the CSP2+ (it arced really bad) and took out the PS Audio unit as well as the fuses.  I ordered a replacement Sovtek tube but my NOS RCA 5Y3GT came today so I dropped that in the CSP and am breaking it in now.
   
  I can't believe how much of a difference the P300 made in the system.  I can send it back to PS Audio and they will repair it for $500 but I am thinking maybe I buy a newer unit since the P300 is more than 12 years old.  Anyone have a P3 in their system now?  If so how do you like it?


----------



## Charnwood

Quote: 





negura said:


> [Nevermind: I just realized the output is 230V so no good for the US. But I will leave this note here for any EU/UK/AUS people)]
> 
> Sorry to hear. I just bought an English made regenerator a friend recommended and it's going to be with me tomorrow. Right now it's on 1/3 off. This is the 500W one.  Original price was I think £400, then reduced to £300 and you can now use voucher code: summer at checkout. Will let you know with my findings.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'll be interested in your findings on this. Given the price, it looks almost like a no brainer.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> I'll be interested in your findings on this. Given the price, it looks almost like a no brainer.


 
   
  Impressions as requested:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/672988/power-inspired-ag500-power-regenerator-review
   
As this is the Taboo MK3 topic, I found the impact of the AG500 even more noticeable with the Taboo than with the Burson, but certainly there with both. I suspect this is because the Taboo is both more detailed and more transparent.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> I'll be interested in your findings on this. Given the price, it looks almost like a no brainer.


 

 Don't know what I am going to do.
   
  The older PS Audio PPPs have terrible reviews re reliability.   I have been advised by everyone (even an unamed source close to PS Audio NOT to buy a used one).  The P3 is clearly better but expensive.  Maybe I will have my P300 repaired.  I am on the fence because
   
  a) it's a 12 year old unit
  b) cost including back and forth shipping will be >$600
  c) it will take 4-8 weeks to get the unit back
   
  Anyone have experience with the Shunyata Hydra 6 or 8 or the Richard Grey stuff?  The Taboo and CSP2+ sound much worse without the P300.  I wish that weren't the case but alas it is...


----------



## longbowbbs

ihmeyers said:


> charnwood said:
> 
> 
> > I'll be interested in your findings on this. Given the price, it looks almost like a no brainer.
> ...




A good amp amp and preamp will reflect their source. GIGO....


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> A good amp amp and preamp will reflect their source. GIGO....


 

 Yeah, and the power in Florida is garbage.  Measured the power this morning at 125.7v.  Last night it was 115v. 
   
  I think a power regeneration unit is mandatory here.  Wish they weren't so damn expensive.  I found an ExactPower EP 115 for about $1k.    Reviews are sparse but they were good.  Wish I knew more about  this unit.  That's about all my budget will allow right now...


----------



## bearFNF

ihmeyers said:


> Yeah, and the power in Florida is garbage.  Measured the power this morning at 125.7v.  Last night it was 115v.
> 
> I think a power regeneration unit is mandatory here.  Wish they weren't so damn expensive.  I found an ExactPower EP 115 for about $1k.    Reviews are sparse but they were good.  Wish I knew more about  this unit.  That's about all my budget will allow right now...




I use this one:
APC AV Black J Type 1.5kVA Power Conditioner with Battery Backup 120V

It has saved me numerous times from the flickering flaky power we have here in the great white north boonies of Northern MN.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> Yeah, and the power in Florida is garbage.  Measured the power this morning at 125.7v.  Last night it was 115v.
> 
> I think a power regeneration unit is mandatory here.  Wish they weren't so damn expensive.  I found an ExactPower EP 115 for about $1k.    Reviews are sparse but they were good.  Wish I knew more about  this unit.  That's about all my budget will allow right now...


 
   
  Ditto. London UK measured is 243V to 248.5V, expected base being 230V.  All that in half a day.


----------



## negura

One NOS USAF-596 on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tube-/161069841562?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258082bc9a
   
  These are RARE, it's the first one I've seen in months. I have 3 of them now, so am covered for a while.


----------



## WNBC

Really enjoying the Grado 225i on the MKIII.  My first Grado.  After owning some fine headphones like the LCD-2, HE-500, and TH-600 I could be happy with these 225 for a while before I make the jump to a flagship headphone.  
   
  Unrelated, just started using a Venom 3 cable into the Taboo.  I'm still trying to figure out why I like the rig even more now with the Venom in place.  There appears to be an overall improvement in regards to clarity, especially in the treble.  The other confounder is that at the same time I also switched to a Mac Mini and now demo'ing Amarra instead of using JRiver as a player.  There may be improvements due to Amarra.    
   
  In any case, the Taboo is really shining these days.  And I haven't even dropped in the good tubes yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Tube rolling isn't a necessity on the Taboo but that doesn't mean we won't do it.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Glad the Grado's working out WNBC


----------



## IHMEYERS

I ended up buying the Exact Power. At some point I might just get the P300 fixed, I just thought it made more sense to get something else. The other thing about the P300 is it runs REALLY hot, I mean like touching a rectifier tube hot. I'll bet it cost me like $30-$50 @ month to run it. My electric bill here is over $500 a month.


----------



## bearFNF

Just bought the PS500 after auditioning them on my Taboo MKIII at the Minneapolis meet, was very impressed with the pairing. I was a little surprised because my 325is were not so good on the Taboo, may need to revisit this, maybe something has changed???


----------



## WNBC

I also read that the 325 wasn't a good pairing with Taboo whereas the 225 was a better match. Different Grados might perform better or worse. I'm not familiar with the differences between Grados. Are the woody versions less tipped in the treble?




bearfnf said:


> Just bought the PS500 after auditioning them on my Taboo MKIII at the Minneapolis meet, was very impressed with the pairing. I was a little surprised because my 325is were not so good on the Taboo, may need to revisit this, maybe something has changed???


----------



## bearFNF

My experience so far is that the 325is are 'treble happy' and need a less bright amp to take the edge off.  The PS500 so far do not have that issue and have a more balanced presentation, liking the bass delivery so far.  will need to get more head time with them.


----------



## negura

Shortly since I ordered the Taboo I had a BSC (that stands for bat****crazy) idea. And as it pans out, I couldn't help myself. 
  Now, the question is: Why would I be posting this on the Taboo thread?


----------



## Kendoji

OMG you're going to use your Stax case as an amp stand!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> OMG you're going to use your Stax case as an amp stand!


 
   
  Good one, but it's been vouched for by my other half as a jewelry box apparently (obviously not gonna happen, but one issue at a time).  At this very moment the case is still on the table and nowhere near the Taboo. The Stax headphones are much closer though and it so happens I am listening to them right now. And yes, there is a reason I am posting this here.


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> Good one, but it's been vouched for by my other half as a jewelry box apparently (obviously not gonna happen, but one issue at a time).  At this very moment the case is still on the table and nowhere near the Taboo. The Stax headphones are much closer though and it so happens I am listening to them right now. And yes, there is a reason I am posting this here.



 
 The Taboo is versatile and wonderful, but I didn't know it could drive electrostatics!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> The Taboo is versatile and wonderful, but I didn't know it could drive electrostatics!


 
   
  It's where this comes in: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html
   
  - As the Woo Wee is only a converter, the voicing is all handled by the Taboo. What I am trying to leverage here is that the Taboo is also a superb speaker amplifier.
  - I wasn't too sure how this was going to pan out as I am not aware of anyone who's tried it before. 
  - I've just started listening to the combo today and will definetely report back with impressions. But so far the Taboo is turning out to be very capable at driving the Woo Wee & SR-007 MKI.
  - The added bonus for those with speakers is that the Woo Wee also doubles as a high-end speaker/headphones switch 
   
  Speaking of versatility:
  - dynamics
  - planars
  - speakers
  - electrostats (with converter)
   
   
  Not at all pretty at the moment, as the highest quality ICs I have for between the Taboo and the Wee are my speaker links (only 30cms). But I plan on getting some appropriate ones.
   

   
  Topography:
  DAC ---> RCAs --->  Taboo MK3   ---> Dynamic headphones
                                                 ---> Speaker Links ----> Woo Wee  |----> Speaker Cables ----> Speakers
                                                                                                  |----> 2 x Electrostats Pro Bias Outputs --> Stax headphones
  Result:


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> It's where this comes in: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html
> 
> - As the Woo Wee is only a converter, the voicing is all handled by the Taboo. What I am trying to leverage here is that the Taboo is also a superb speaker amplifier.
> - I wasn't too sure how this was going to pan out as I am not aware of anyone who's tried it before.
> ...



 
 I like it. Can't wait to hear what you think. What were you using to drive your SR007's before? Looks like you're getting a lot of use from your Taboo


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I like it. Can't wait to hear what you think. What were you using to drive your SR007's before? Looks like you're getting a lot of use from your Taboo


 
   
  I bought them recently with this plan in mind, or a dedicated stats amplifier failing that. I've heard the SR-007s before and love the sound.
   
  There are a selected few headphones that I love in addition to those that I have/had so far. That includes SR-007 MKI, HE-6s, obviously HE90s (never gonna happen). And I would assume the SR-009s but have not heard them yet. I preferred the SR-007 MKI to the HE60s, but obviously not to the HE90s.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Very cool. I am really interested on your thoughts on the new setup. I would love to compare the 007 to the LCD2 using the Taboo.


----------



## Kendoji

That is interesting - I hadn't heard of the Woo Wee before.  I wonder how a Taboo + Woo Wee compares to a dedicated electrostatic amp.
   
  In other exciting news, my Taboo MKIII was completed yesterday, and I narrowly managed to avoid having to wait for stock of the walnut base by emailing Steve and telling him the black figured base was fine too.  It's now in the shipping department.  :-D


----------



## negura

Grats on your Taboo. Let us know what you think of it.


kendoji said:


> That is interesting - I hadn't heard of the Woo Wee before.  I wonder how a Taboo + Woo Wee compares to a dedicated electrostatic amp.
> 
> In other exciting news, my Taboo MKIII was completed yesterday, and I narrowly managed to avoid having to wait for stock of the walnut base by emailing Steve and telling him the black figured base was fine too.  It's now in the shipping department.  :-D


 

   
  Regarding Wee/Stax:
  Very interestingly how this is panning out. As the Woo Wee is connected to the speaker outputs that's exactly what you get, including the sound signature of your Taboo.
   
  The Stax headphones as the electrostats they are, are very transparent, probably more transparent than either of the dynamics I have. One of the results of this is rolling tubes is even more noticeable. Also these babies like power. You will need to push the volume on the Taboo up about 3 notches to get the same SPL as on your dynamics. You can reach clipping level on the Taboo using the Stax/Wee combo, but it's ear piercing loud by then. Very unhealthy levels. 
   
  I will make an assumption: The Stax will love a CSP preamp in the downstream as it's pretty similar to having speakers connected to the Taboo. Only a couple of months left or so until I can assess that. 
   
  Still too early to comment further on the SQ, but will do so later on, once my impressions have settled.


----------



## thegrobe

Alright..I'd like to join the cool kids club. May I?

Just picked up a mint Mk III from the classifieds. Cherry wood, v-caps, 4 pin XLR. Plus some extra tubes. 

I had been reading up on this beauty, and asked Steve at Decware a couple questions over email. I was thinking to order in the next couple weeks so the timing was spot-on for a used one to pop up.

Anybody have thoughts on the v-caps vs. beeswax caps? I would not have ordered the v-caps had I bought new, but I figure they can't be a bad choice, right?

I'll be using this with my Audio-gd SA-1.32 DAC and LCD-3's with Norse cable. And yes, I kind of feel like I'm cheating by not enduring the wait. Sorry.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> Alright..I'd like to join the cool kids club. May I?
> 
> Just picked up a mint Mk III from the classifieds. Cherry wood, v-caps, 4 pin XLR. Plus some extra tubes.
> 
> ...




Mine has Vcaps. I like it. Given them a little time though.


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> Mine has Vcaps. I like it. Given them a little time though.




Right on..and I recall you saying the Taboo/LCD-3 pairing was very good. This is good to hear! While I may not *need* to get to the S.F. meet now to hear your Taboo, I am still going to try and make it. And bring mine too!


----------



## Charnwood

My Taboo Mk3 arrived today and it took me all of about 10 seconds to realize it was something special. It was an experience I was repeat a few hours later when I was able to finally get a Chordette QX DAC on loan from my local Chord dealer. This is a Chord QubeHD in a different case. The little Chord QX in combination with the Taboo is simply stunning. The QX wont be going back.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> My Taboo Mk3 arrived today and it took me all of about 10 seconds to realize it was something special. It was an experience I was repeat a few hours later when I was able to finally get a Chordette QX DAC on loan from my local Chord dealer. This is a Chord QubeHD in a different case. The little Chord QX in combination with the Taboo is simply stunning. The QX wont be going back.


 
   
  Grats m8! Similar impression here. That's also an awesome DAC as the word goes. Haven't heard it myself.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> Right on..and I recall you saying the Taboo/LCD-3 pairing was very good. This is good to hear! While I may not *need* to get to the S.F. meet now to hear your Taboo, I am still going to try and make it. And bring mine too!



 
 It's excellent with LCD-3's. And I wouldn't feel badly about not having to endure the waiting process. Just enjoy the music   


charnwood said:


> My Taboo Mk3 arrived today and it took me all of about 10 seconds to realize it was something special. It was an experience I was repeat a few hours later when I was able to finally get a Chordette QX DAC on loan from my local Chord dealer. This is a Chord QubeHD in a different case. The little Chord QX in combination with the Taboo is simply stunning. The QX wont be going back.



 
 Yay. Congrats. Fun stuff. If you feel that way now, just wait until you break it in a bit.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> It's excellent with LCD-3's. And I wouldn't feel badly about not having to endure the waiting process. Just enjoy the music


 
   
  The Taboo made me love the LCD-3s more, clearly brought them up over the Burson Soloist.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> The Taboo made me love the LCD-3s more, clearly brought them up over the Burson Soloist.


 
   
  The two are just so natural sounding together. Last night, I spent an hour listening to Bach cello suites, after an hour listening to Esperanza Spalding. So good.


----------



## longbowbbs

You guys are killing me. I have been gone for two weeks with the scouts and am having major Decware withdrawal! Tubes will be glowing Sunday!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You guys are killing me. I have been gone for two weeks with the scouts and am having major Decware withdrawal! Tubes will be glowing Sunday!


 
  Was wondering where you've been 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What's the first thing you're going to listen to?


----------



## thegrobe

Oh man, you guys are making me crazy. I'm so excited to get this amp. Especially after hearing more about how well the mk III/LCD-3 combo works.

I don't know how you all deal with waiting for months after pulling the trigger! Yikes! I'm going to go batty just waiting the week or whatever until mine gets to me. Lol. Again- sorry about that

Anybody tried running the LCD's (or anything else) from the mk III speaker taps? Any difference? Do both the old and new lucid modes work on the speaker tap outs?

I know, so many questions. Wait until I start asking about tube rolling. Got a few with the amp to start experimenting with, but I plan on putting many hours on the stock tubes first.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are killing me. I have been gone for two weeks with the scouts and am having major Decware withdrawal! Tubes will be glowing Sunday!
> ...



Steely Dan - Gaucho....Babylon Sister...no music right now. I am in the ICU with one of my scouts waiting for his parents to get here. 14 hour drive for them.... Long day...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ does not sound good Eric...hope your scout will be ok...


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> ^ does not sound good Eric...hope your scout will be ok...



Thanks Andre. Diabetes is a terrible disease... He will be OK in a few days. Tough next few for him though.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Steely Dan - Gaucho....Babylon Sister...no music right now. I am in the ICU with one of my scouts waiting for his parents to get here. 14 hour drive for them.... Long day...


 
   
  ACK!!! That sucks!!!  Here's to a speedy recovery for him.


----------



## OPR8R

Yikes.  Poor kid.  Hope everything works out well.


----------



## thegrobe

longbowbbs said:


> Thanks Andre. Diabetes is a terrible disease... He will be OK in a few days.tough next few for him though.




Oh man that's a bummer. I hope he is feeling better soon.


----------



## Junior mints

Well I think I am about ready to place my order! Would anyone recommend getting the VCAPS or just stick with the beeswax? What about the XLR options? I am using the stock cable with my LCD2's and will upgrade eventually. Any advantage of the 4 pin over the 3 pin? Thanks all!


----------



## Argo Duck

Mints you should read Steve's thread in the decware forums about his development of the Taboo III. He considers beeswax an upgrade. More detailed. See Eric's _a visit to decware_ thread as well for more info about these caps.

4-pin versus 2x3-pin is merely a matter of preference. And that if you order 4-pin you'll get 2 sockets and be able to run two balanced hps. This is useful if you have two heads or a friend with the same music preferences


----------



## negura

Folks,
   
  I am pleased to say the Taboo MK3 + Woo Wee is better than I expected driving the SR-007. These are not easy to drive to sound right. There's a catch: A preamp appears to be an absolute must.
   
  On the other hand I should probably not go any further talking about the dark Stax side. Saying more would be fun spoiling. I will stop here.
   
  I am still working on comparing rectifiers. It's been fun so far and I am down to 3 of them which I prefer above all others. So far.


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is the link to my Visit...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware
   
  I am back from the Jamboree. My sick Scout went home and is resting. All will be fine. Man am I tired! 15 days out, most in a tent. My JH16's saved me...Then I broke a pin off in the IEM and have to send them in...Always something. Enjoying my Decware suite atm...
   
  CSP2+>Taboo MK III>DM945's.....Yes...Good to be home!


----------



## Lorspeaker

hi decwarefans, a noob question from me...
  wat is the decware equivalent to this amp http://www.amazon.co.uk/electronics/dp/B00C4CDQDK ?
   
  ( i understand this amp can power the HE-6...so that started me thinking...)


----------



## negura

longbowbbs said:


> CSP2+>Taboo MK III>DM945's.....Yes...Good to be home!


 
   
  Welcome back! 
   

   
  Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> hi decwarefans, a noob question from me...
> wat is the decware equivalent to this amp http://www.amazon.co.uk/electronics/dp/B00C4CDQDK ?
> 
> ( i understand this amp can power the HE-6...so that started me thinking...)


 
   
I am not sure what the "equivalent" is/should be. The Icon is not in the same class as the Taboo.
   
Power isn't everything but the Icon doesn't really ooze it.
Low setting - 451mW at 32 ohm, 720mW at 50 ohm, 667mW at 150 ohm
Mid setting - 735mW and 10.5Vrms at 150 ohm, 653mW and 14Vrms at 300 ohm
High setting - 403mW and 11Vrms at 300 ohm, 482mW and 17Vrms at 600 ohm


   
That pretty much kills the deal with the HE-6s. And it's barely adequate for the Audeze.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> hi decwarefans, a noob question from me...
> wat is the decware equivalent to this amp http://www.amazon.co.uk/electronics/dp/B00C4CDQDK ?
> 
> ( i understand this amp can power the HE-6...so that started me thinking...)


 
  The Mk 111 is not good for powering the HE6 it only puts out 1.7W into that load and cant drive the he6 properly. I also had that issue with the Mk11 and on dynamic recordings  it will clip big time


----------



## Lorspeaker

ooooo....thanks for the headsup, that solved the icon matter.
  the search for a tube that kills the he6 remains..hmmm.


----------



## longbowbbs

Back in the Man cave with my Taboo MK III and HD800's. Steely Dan is sublime.....Post #4000 and all is well......


----------



## negura

Update:
  I have very recently received back my Toxic Cables Silver Widows reterminated to 4 pin balanced.
   
  Findings:
  - in balanced mode both lucid modes must stay OFF. In this mode either of the lucid modes seem to add low end distorsions/clipping on my bass heavy test tracks._ Later edit (measuring problem): That is is around 80-85 SPL measured with stock tubes._ _And this is similar to what I am hearing through speakers and Stax (via Woo Wee), however those do give you lower volumes than on headphones at the same pot setting._
  - the combination of balanced output and a very good cable helps the LCD-3s along in transparency. Very pleased.
  - my HD800s got sold. I am happier with the LCD-3s and Stax SR007.  Although I must say the HD800s sounded fantastic out of the Taboo.
   
  One of my output tubes went bad, noticeable hum. So I binned the stock pair. Luckily I have 6p15p-ER russian military tubes. The latter sound similar to stock ones, but supposedly better reliability.
   
   
  When it starts clipping:
   
  Stock tubes:
  - 82-83 dB SPL (measured with a meter) - no Lucid modes
  -


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Update:
> I have very recently received back my Toxic Cables Silver Widows reterminated to 4 pin balanced.
> 
> Findings:
> ...


 
  Interesting.  I listen with the volume around "the middle" and never experience distortions/clipping, and I listen to lots of bass.  I'll have to do some tests tonight.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Interesting.  I listen with the volume around "the middle" and never experience distortions/clipping, and I listen to lots of bass.  I'll have to do some tests tonight.


 
   
  I am not sure how to tell where middle is unless I am counting the clicks, as I have no indications with my pot.
   
  My test tracks are:
  Gothart (2000, Cabaret) - 13 Ketri Ketri.flac
  Chris Jones - No Sanctuary Here.wav
   
  Either of the tracks starts right away with strong deep bass. Any of the lucid modes will make it clip sooner. And this is also confirmed by the meter dials becoming uneasy and starting to move slightly. Btw, that's with the stock output tubes. I will pop in some Amperex EL84 to see if that gets better.
   
  Later edit:
  Much better with the Amperex EL84. Can get higher volume before the meters start moving. In the 90-95+ dB range with headphones, which is more than enough. I haven't exposed my ears to that, it's measured. Looks like I need to stick with the EL84 for running speakers/Stax. The 6p15p definetely clip sooner.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> I am not sure how to tell where middle is unless I am counting the clicks, as I have no indications with my pot.
> 
> My test tracks are:
> Gothart (2000, Cabaret) - 13 Ketri Ketri.flac
> ...


 
  Wow.  So, I went and played with the volume a bit.  I can make the meters move around 14 or 15 clicks with or without Original Mode engaged.  They don't move much but they do.  I'd never seen that.  I could never listen that loud though.  This is with (Philips) EL84's.  I didn't listen during this test (call me chicken if you want), so I can't say much about distortions, but by watching the meters I didn't see much difference between Original on or off.  I'll test other tubes later.  Does the fun ever end with this?
   
  But yeah, I count clicks.  Also, I think the nob isn't exactly round, so there may be a way to find where you are by feel.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Wow.  So, I went and played with the volume a bit.  I can make the meters move around 14 or 15 clicks with or without Original Mode engaged.  They don't move much but they do.  I'd never seen that.  I could never listen that loud though.  This is with (Philips) EL84's.  I didn't listen during this test (call me chicken if you want), so I can't say much about distortions, but by watching the meters I didn't see much difference between Original on or off.  I'll test other tubes later.  Does the fun ever end with this?
> 
> But yeah, I count clicks.  Also, I think the nob isn't exactly round, so there may be a way to find where you are by feel.


 
   
  Yeah, it's the 6p15p tubes that clip first and it happens sooner with the Lucid modes. I was only using the old Lucid mode before due to single ended, but I don't prefer it when there's a choice. So it's good like this. The EL84s must be providing some more power. I would have loved about 6-8 watts with the Taboo (with speakers/Stax in mind), but it's excellent as is. 
   
   
_Later edit: Clipping and all that should be a non concern for people who don't run a ton of s*** off their speaker posts like I do at the moment. Disconnecting the speaker posts gave me back the 30mA on the meters and a discernable effect when using the Old Lucid mode. That said I am not using any of the Lucid Modes and I still don't care much for the New Lucid Mode._


----------



## RedBull

Question guys, does stepped attenuator in Taboo make a noise like stepped in Soloist?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Question guys, does stepped attenuator in Taboo make a noise like stepped in Soloist?


 
   
  So far it's much better. My Soloist (Conductor) clicked like mad when changing steps from day 1. The one the Taboo is still virtually silent. The one on the Conductor got a bit worse over time, but it was very noisy to begin with.


----------



## RedBull

Glad to know that negura.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Question guys, does stepped attenuator in Taboo make a noise like stepped in Soloist?


 
  Mine is silent via headphones. You can hear it slightly when you don't have phones on and are listening to the click,


----------



## RedBull

Thank god, sound good, good look and silent volume control too. Don't know why Soloist don't use this kind of control and choose the noisy one. I mean, how difficult can it be, from so many choices out there.


----------



## OPR8R

Got a couple of status updates on my current Decware orders. I'm on the bench for my ZP3, but maybe more exciting for you all is my parts got pulled for the CSP3+!! I'm hoping this means we'll see news re: the CSP3+ soonish. Exciting!!


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Got a couple of status updates on my current Decware orders. I'm on the bench for my ZP3, but maybe more exciting for you all is my parts got pulled for the CSP3+!! I'm hoping this means we'll see news re: the CSP3+ soonish. Exciting!!


 
   
  Much look forward to hear some early opinions! Didn't know you've ordered the CSP. Is it to help along with speakers or just to complete the stack?


----------



## OPR8R

negura said:


> Much look forward to hear some early opinions! Didn't know you've ordered the CSP. Is it to help along with speakers or just to complete the stack?



 
 Originally, I was only going to order the ZP3 because I felt my current phono stage is a bit of a weak link now. I decided on the CSP2(3)+ because 1) I heard it was being updated and 2) even though the Taboo is awesome as is, I'm curious about what my system will sound like with the completed stack. Right now, I haven't hooked any speakers up to it, though, I have some vintage Pioneers that want the juice. Anyway, it's an bit risky, but I'm hoping my system will like the new preamp. I'm guessing it'll be a week and a half or so before I get the ZP3 and CSP3+, but I plan on forgoing sleep for a couple days to do some serious listening once I get them. Both are on the bench now.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Got a couple of status updates on my current Decware orders. I'm on the bench for my ZP3, but maybe more exciting for you all is my parts got pulled for the CSP3+!! I'm hoping this means we'll see news re: the CSP3+ soonish. Exciting!!


 
  Nice! It will be fun to see what the differences are between the CSP2+ and the 3+....


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> Nice! It will be fun to see what the differences are between the CSP2+ and the 3+....



 
 Send me your CSP2+ and I'll A/B them for you. Ha ha... I'll post pics as soon as I get it so you can see what physical differences there might be.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Question guys, does stepped attenuator in Taboo make a noise like stepped in Soloist?


 
  Not sure what noise you are talking about with soloist, but mine pops slightly in the headphones every so often when changing the volume, like a little static tick sound?  But not all the time though.  seems to get better after a few cycles.


----------



## RedBull

Yes, that pop sound when you change the volume.


----------



## Kendoji

My Taboo is finally shipping!  It's nerve-wracking ordering stuff like this from the US.  So much uncertainty.  Will it be damaged in transit?  When it finally arrives at my office, will I have to pay the import duties in cash immediately, or will I be invoiced later?  It seems to be different every time.  I just hope it arrives after my holiday next week, but before the end of August, as I'll be changing jobs then.  Oh well, fingers crossed, while I try to restrain myself from checking the UPS site every five minutes.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> My Taboo is finally shipping!  It's nerve-wracking ordering stuff like this from the US.  So much uncertainty.  Will it be damaged in transit?  When it finally arrives at my office, will I have to pay the import duties in cash immediately, or will I be invoiced later?  It seems to be different every time.  I just hope it arrives after my holiday next week, but before the end of August, as I'll be changing jobs then.  Oh well, fingers crossed, while I try to restrain myself from checking the UPS site every five minutes.


 
   
  No damage in transit and it arrived sooner than expected here.
   
  UPS in the UK asked for cash with exact change on delivery, for customs/taxes. They don't take card payments on delivery, so I kind of anticipated this and made sure I had cash at hand. You can pay by phone, but it's only after the first failed delivery and then for that you will need to have it redelivered on the next day.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL! Nice try!....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now we settle in for your impressions....


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> LOL! Nice try!


 
  Well, you can't blame me for trying


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> My Taboo is finally shipping!  It's nerve-wracking ordering stuff like this from the US.  So much uncertainty.  Will it be damaged in transit?  When it finally arrives at my office, will I have to pay the import duties in cash immediately, or will I be invoiced later?  It seems to be different every time.  I just hope it arrives after my holiday next week, but before the end of August, as I'll be changing jobs then.  Oh well, fingers crossed, while I try to restrain myself from checking the UPS site every five minutes.


 
  Congrats.  I got mine back in April.  I watched the wait list and the UPS tracking page like a hawk.  Mine was actually delayed one day because the train it was on derailed.  I was on pins and needles waiting for it to arrive, but when it did it was perfectly fine.  Decware shipping does a really good job packing.


----------



## mwindham08

Yeah you could probably drop the package down the stairs and it would be alright (not recommending trying it!). Mine had like 6 inches of bubble wrap over it.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Congrats.  I got mine back in April.  I watched the wait list and the UPS tracking page like a hawk.  Mine was actually delayed one day because the train it was on derailed.  I was on pins and needles waiting for it to arrive, but when it did it was perfectly fine.  Decware shipping does a really good job packing.


 
  wore out my F5 key looking for mine...
  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Yeah you could probably drop the package down the stairs and it would be alright (not recommending trying it!). Mine had like 6 inches of bubble wrap over it.


 
  Yep, they do an exceptional job packing them up.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yeah, they treat them with great pride and care, which is obviously what they feel for their products!


----------



## thegrobe

My used (but new to me) Taboo mk III should be arriving today. Pretty excited about this. Of course it's going to get a week or two of use as-is but it's not too early to ask about tube rolling. Sorry if a bunch of this has been covered but haven't gotten through all the thread yet. 
   
  I am going to be using it only with LCD-3's. Other than the stock tubes, there are a couple coming with it. A Philips 5R4GYS and a pair of Svetlana SV83. What are some tubes I should look into getting to try some other stuff out? Sorry but this is my first tube amp so I know nothing. Which tube position makes the biggest difference in fine-tuning the sound? I am probably looking to pick up a full set as a starting point in addition to the extras it already comes with.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> My used (but new to me) Taboo mk III should be arriving today. Pretty excited about this. Of course it's going to get a week or two of use as-is but it's not too early to ask about tube rolling. Sorry if a bunch of this has been covered but haven't gotten through all the thread yet.
> 
> I am going to be using it only with LCD-3's. Other than the stock tubes, there are a couple coming with it. A Philips 5R4GYS and a pair of Svetlana SV83. What are some tubes I should look into getting to try some other stuff out? Sorry but this is my first tube amp so I know nothing. Which tube position makes the biggest difference in fine-tuning the sound? I am probably looking to pick up a full set as a starting point in addition to the extras it already comes with.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
   
  Tube rolling has come up a few times in this thread.  You might look back a dozen or so pages, or do a quick search.  I've settled on Philips 5R4GYS (rectifier), 2x Philips EL84 (output), and an Amperex Orange Globe for the signal tube.
   
  On another note, does anyone cover their Taboo, like with a dust cover of some sort when not in use?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Tube rolling has come up a few times in this thread.  You might look back a dozen or so pages, or do a quick search.  I've settled on Philips 5R4GYS (rectifier), 2x Philips EL84 (output), and an Amperex Orange Globe for the signal tube.
> 
> On another note, does anyone cover their Taboo, like with a dust cover of some sort when not in use?


 
   
  When not in use!?!?! It doesn't really get much of that. Plus when I'm not at home, it is busy burning in new tubes.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> When not in use!?!?! It doesn't really get much of that. Plus when I'm not at home, it is busy burning in new tubes.


 
  Ha ha... I should've specified with this group.  Unfortunately, I only get to listen for a few hours a day usually.  So that's 20 some odd hours of dust collection


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> My used (but new to me) Taboo mk III should be arriving today. Pretty excited about this. Of course it's going to get a week or two of use as-is but it's not too early to ask about tube rolling. Sorry if a bunch of this has been covered but haven't gotten through all the thread yet.
> 
> I am going to be using it only with LCD-3's. Other than the stock tubes, there are a couple coming with it. A Philips 5R4GYS and a pair of Svetlana SV83. What are some tubes I should look into getting to try some other stuff out? Sorry but this is my first tube amp so I know nothing. Which tube position makes the biggest difference in fine-tuning the sound? I am probably looking to pick up a full set as a starting point in addition to the extras it already comes with.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  Congradulations on your new amp..use it in good health.
  I'm new to tube amps as well...
  I'm using the Taboo mkII..not the mkIII.
   
  Some have suggested to me ,that the signal tube gives the must difference,and, I have settled on three,..depending on what genre of music,I plan on listening to ,I use these:
  Raytheon 5751 windmill getter..this gets the most use
  Siemens 12au7 silverplates
  Phillips 12au7 7316
   
  I have a very tight desktop setup ,and I do suggest some sort of dust cover to place over the amp,when not in use.
  My wife was good enough to make me a small dust cover,from an old pillow case---.Very elegant !! LOL.
  It wont be in the latest copy ,of House & Garden,but it does get the job done.
  YMMV...


----------



## longbowbbs

No cover for mine. The dust gets vaporized by the warm tubes...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No cover for mine. The dust gets vaporized by the warm tubes...


 
  Ditto for me, burn baby burn...


----------



## OPR8R

You guys are lucky.  I turn mine off when I go to work or bed, and flip it on when I come home or wake up.  I've more or less quit watching TV/movies because they cut into my listening time,  but I still can't manage to get more than a few hours of good Taboo time a day.  The weekends are different


----------



## thegrobe

Thanks guys for the comments on tube rolling!

I had several hours last night with the Taboo. (in fact - lost lots of sleep!) My initial impression is very good. I had only used solid state amps before, wasn't quite sure what to expect. My other current amp is an Audio-GD SA-31, which I think is really good with the LCD-2/3. 

Wow the clarity and detail! So much more in the way of micro details, but in no way harsh or etched sounding. A different "feel" completely from my other amp. Very nice soundstaging as well. I could see this going very well as I spend some time with it. The new lucid mode is really wild.  I can see it being fun and useable with smaller scale recordings- solo artists or just a few instruments, etc. The more big and complex things get it can move stuff around a bit too much, but a real fun thing to have and it is a good "microscope" to check out recordings. Also there is something really nice about the glowing tubes. A real high "coolness" factor, with a way higher "wife approval factor" than a big black box. She actually gave me no grief about this one. Imagine that. Maybe because it looks like it belongs in a haunted house or a mad scientist's lab. Goes with our decor. 

Anyway, got a couple questions:

Is it normal to have a little hum when new lucid is engaged? Definitely low level but noticeable when the music is not playing. A tiny tiny bit with old lucid but not a concern. Mainly concerned with the new lucid "on". It's there no matter where the volume dial is, all the way down or up the level of hum doesn't change. This is with 4 pin XLR or single ended input. 

The other thing I noticed is with no music playing, The stepped volume is all good and quiet most of the range. When you get up to say, maybe the last 5-8 steps (or around there) the amp gets noisy. Like a warbly hum or something. Then the last two steps (wide open) it's silent again. Normal? I wouldn't usually listen at that range with headphones (maybe with a quiet recording?) but possibly with speakers.

Do all you Taboo users have the same thing? Maybe these are issues inherent to tube amps in general? I don't know. I'm used to solid state so maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but just want to make sure the amp doesn't need repair. Thanks in advance


----------



## negura

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Is it normal to have a little hum when new lucid is engaged? Definitely low level but noticeable when the music is not playing. A tiny tiny bit with old lucid but not a concern. Mainly concerned with the new lucid "on". It's there no matter where the volume dial is, all the way down or up the level of hum doesn't change. This is with 4 pin XLR or single ended input.


 
  Hum usually points to tubes. Is it one channel or both channels? Try and swap the output tubes see if that still happens. I didn't find the stock output tubes very reliable and they got binned after 2 weeks. I understand this is the exception not the rule though. Or if the tubes are cold and haven't warmed-up, but that's only very temporary.
   
  Not a problem with the Amperex EL84s I am using now.


----------



## thegrobe

Amp is certainly warmed up. So not that. I'll try the other set of output tubes I have later today. Thanks.

Anyone else? Lucid mode humming?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Amp is certainly warmed up. So not that. I'll try the other set of output tubes I have later today. Thanks.
> 
> Anyone else? Lucid mode humming?


 
  Others have brought this up as well.  I had never noticed it before someone else mentioned it, but there is a low level hum with Original Mode engaged and it gets a bit louder with New Lucid on.  It is very low level (in Original mode) and cannot be heard at all once the music starts.  I'm inclined to agree with Negura on the source of the hum: it's probably tube related.


----------



## Charnwood

My Taboo is silent at all volumes with no music playing but then it is running off a power regenerator. Sounds as if you may have some DC on your mains.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> My Taboo is silent at all volumes with no music playing but then it is running off a power regenerator. Sounds as if you may have some DC on your mains.


 
   
  Power regen powered here too. The hum caused by tubes was like a hush sound. Very noticeable, also when music is playing. Now that you mentioned it there is a very faint low level background presence when New Lucid Mode is engaged and only barely audible towards the end of the volume scale. This is not what I was talking about previously. I am not bothered either way as I prefer the original sound and not using any of the lucid modes.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> My Taboo is silent at all volumes with no music playing but then it is running off a power regenerator. Sounds as if you may have some DC on your mains.


 
  I've had that suspicion.  Would a power conditioner help here?


----------



## thegrobe

Thanks for the replies folks. 
   
   
  Edit:
  Figured it out. Bad tubes. All is good.
   
  The amp sounds wonderful though! I love it! It's just making sure I love it right now. Testing me. ha ha


----------



## WNBC

There is a low hum with new lucid mode. Not noticeable at normal listening levels. Ruled out tubes and power. Not a dealbreaker. New lucid is pretty amazing. Old lucid mode extremely faint background noise, have to strain to hear any hum. My previous MKII may have been a little blacker in the background but I'm relying on memory here. I don't hear anything coming from my attenuator as I go up the dial.


----------



## mmlogic

My Taboo 3 got the same humming issue.
  when pairing with LCD2/3, the humming is barely noticeable, but with high sensitive cans like my PS1000, it can be very annoying.
  with new Lucid mode on, sometimes I can hear the hum even when music is playing.
  this is frustrating because I really like PS1000+Taboo 3+new lucid mode, may be the best combination for rock at any price.


----------



## thegrobe

Agreed. The low level hum when new lucid is engaged is very minor, not a problem. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that went in hand with the weird noises I was getting on the volume steps.
   
  Speaking of which....CURED! 
   
  Thanks everyone for listening to my questions and worries. But I tried some different tubes and the noise is gone. So no worries. All seems to be good. This amp sounds wonderful


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Agreed. The low level hum when new lucid is engaged is very minor, not a problem. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that went in hand with the weird noises I was getting on the volume steps.
> 
> Speaking of which....CURED!
> 
> Thanks everyone for listening to my questions and worries. But I tried some different tubes and the noise is gone. So no worries. All seems to be good. This amp sounds wonderful


 
  Great News!


----------



## negura

The LCD-3s with the Taboo are simply superb. Very long rainy English night last night. Went through my classic rock favourites and have to say I took a hint from Eric's comments and gave a listen to a selection of Steely Dan.  The latter was new to me. Very good recordings and enjoyed it.
   
  Otherwise still compiling impressions of several rectifiers with the Taboo, but I have kind of settled on 2 of them so far. Will see if there's any surprise in 1-2 weeks with the arrival of the military version of the below. There's a similar one on eBay ending in 5 hours if anyone is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-Western-Electric-274B-Vacuum-Tube-Navy-NOS-1943-military-/330966832602?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d0f2915da


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> The LCD-3s with the Taboo are simply superb. Very long rainy English night last night. Went through my classic rock favourites and have to say I took a hint from Eric's comments and gave a listen to a selection of Steely Dan.  The latter was new to me. Very good recordings and enjoyed it.
> 
> Otherwise still compiling impressions of several rectifiers with the Taboo, but I have kind of settled on 2 of them so far. Will see if there's any surprise in 1-2 weeks with the arrival of the military version of the below. There's a similar one on eBay ending in 5 hours if anyone is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-Western-Electric-274B-Vacuum-Tube-Navy-NOS-1943-military-/330966832602?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d0f2915da


 
  I'll have to watch for these, but later.  My wallet is about the feel the pain of a CSP3+ and ZP3.  I guess that also means more tube rolling in my future.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I'll have to watch for these, but later.  My wallet is about the feel the pain of a CSP3+ and ZP3.  I guess that also means more tube rolling in my future.


 
  Sweet, no pictures, it didn't happen...so you must post pictures...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (when they arrive that is)


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I'll have to watch for these, but later.  My wallet is about the feel the pain of a CSP3+ and ZP3.  I guess that also means more tube rolling in my future.


 
   
  Yeah, now you need 2x rectifiers and a plenty 6dj8s/6922s LOL. And I am not laughing as I also have a CSP3 order. Any leaks what the CSP3 brings new? If top secret I will take PMs.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Yeah, now you need 2x rectifiers and a plenty 6dj8s/6922s LOL. And I am not laughing as I also have a CSP3 order. Any leaks what the CSP3 brings new? If top secret I will take PMs.


 
  I've been dreading having to buy new sets.  It came faster than I thought.  I haven't heard anything yet.  It's in testing though...
   
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Sweet, no pictures, it didn't happen...so you must post pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll be on the road next week, but when I get back there's a chance I may have some deliveries... If I'm lucky.  I'll definitely post pics then.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> The LCD-3s with the Taboo are simply superb. Very long rainy English night last night. Went through my classic rock favourites and have to say I took a hint from Eric's comments and gave a listen to a selection of Steely Dan.  The latter was new to me. Very good recordings and enjoyed it.


----------



## bearFNF

I have seen some mention of "socket savers".  Do you guys use them? Am I correct in thinking they are to protect the built in sockets from damage while you are tube rolling?


----------



## WNBC

I used them back in the day when I had a Lyr.  Most of us did it because the sockets were recessed into the case and we wanted to see those glowing tubes.  There was always a debate about whether they degraded the sound or ruined someone's tubes.  I didn't find an advantage or disadvantage.  In the end I think Steve's sockets are built to last for a long life of tube rolling.  Worse comes to worse you send it to him in 10-20 years for new sockets or when you notice the sockets starting to get worn then you get the savors.  I think socket savers would detract from the current aesthetics.   
   
   
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I have seen some mention of "socket savers".  Do you guys use them? Am I correct in thinking they are to protect the built in sockets from damage while you are tube rolling?


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 on all points. I have the socket savers with my Lyr. I have never been tempted to use them with my Decware amps.

It's possible the Decwares' transparency might decide the "do they degrade the sound" question. Maybe an interesting experiment for an idle day...


----------



## bearFNF

Thanks guys,
   
  Roger, don't want to mess with sound, just wanted to know if I needed them or not.  Sounds like, not, as I am not rolling very often.  Kinda settled in now with the tubes I have...Sylvania 5Y3G, 6DJ8 Amperex bugle boy, 6P15P-EV's. May roll some more later but for now I am letting it burn.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

You'd have to roll A LOT of tubes before wearing out a tube socket. But even if you did, it would be an easy fix.


----------



## jazzgas

Negura, I know you ordered a CSP 3+....I noticed that the CSP2+ orders that had been on hold are now being built.  Whats the story?  Did you get a message for choice of upgrades yet?  Do you know what Upgrades have been made to the design.  Steve hasn't posted anything yet but obviously the new box has arrived and pre amps are back on the production line.  I have a Taboo MK III but haven't order a pre amp yet.  What is your expectation or reason for ordering it?  Thanks, Mark.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> Negura, I know you ordered a CSP 3+....I noticed that the CSP2+ orders that had been on hold are now being built.  Whats the story?  Did you get a message for choice of upgrades yet?  Do you know what Upgrades have been made to the design.  Steve hasn't posted anything yet but obviously the new box has arrived and pre amps are back on the production line.  I have a Taboo MK III but haven't order a pre amp yet.  What is your expectation or reason for ordering it?  Thanks, Mark.


 
   
  No and no.  Waiting patiently at the moment. Expectation is it will rock as a preamp for the Taboo with speakers/Woo Wee.
   
  A couple of people have received their CSP3 already so by the time I get mine it will be old news. But noone commented on the CSP3 yet.


----------



## jazzgas

Negura, I just checked the Decware build sheet and it appears there is only one CSP 2+ to be started in front of you....You are the fellow from the UK who ordered on July 11th...Right?  I've got a post up on the Decware forums hoping someone will give us some details.  If I find out anything I'll post it here.  I just need a little more info before I pull the trigger.  Mark.


----------



## negura

I think they are going through the list in order, not by component. So still a while. I much look forward myself to find out about the options.


----------



## rnadell

I would sure like to have one but being new to headphones I would have
  trouble with the wait time. Oh well-----


----------



## negura

Folks. A small incident with my PWD2 turned into a proper fuse rolling party. I am very pleased with the improvements the SR20s brought to my Taboo. More fuses next week.
   
  More impressions here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/419939/audio-grade-fuses/210#post_9689184


----------



## longbowbbs

negura said:


> Folks. A small incident with my PWD2 turned into a proper fuse rolling party. I am very pleased with the improvements the SR20s brought to my Taboo. More fuses next week.
> 
> More impressions here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/419939/audio-grade-fuses/210#post_9689184



Interesting. Keep us posted!


----------



## OPR8R

Just got back from a trip to Portland.  Lovely city.
   
  Anyway, CSP2+, which should be the CSP3+ and ZP3 are in testing.  If I remember my last conversation with Devon correctly, she said they were all going on vacation today for a big wedding, so it might be a bit before I get either.
   
  Interesting info on the fuse upgrade.  I'll be watching your updates too.


----------



## jazzgas

Negura, as I said I would, I have brought you new info on the CSP 3.  My post at Decware got a response from someone waiting on their pre amp that talked to Steve.  There are no internal changes to the CSP 2+ except for moving the headphone jacks and input selector forward. But now you can fit the beeswax caps in for an additional cost of $275 bringing the total for the Pre Amp to $1170.  Now I have to decide if the improvement in the performance of the Taboo MK III with the CSP 3 is worth the price to me.  Maybe I should upgrade my CD player first.  Decisions...Decisions....


----------



## longbowbbs

I can't get my HP Jack moved any farther forward...


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I can't get my HP Jack moved any farther forward...


 
  I am new to Tubes. The Taboo is my first experience so excuse my ignorance but what are those rather Frankenstein-ish big tubes with the two wires....what are the wires for?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I replaced the stock Rectifier tubes with USAF-596's. They are a 4 pin that need an adapter. I got the adapters from 2359Glenn here on Head-Fi.
   
 To quote Silent One regarding the external wires:
  
 Silent One - "Those are anode wires connecting to the grid cap. Lower powered tubes usually have this construction internally, as opposed to external wiring. The USAF-596 is a powerful compact rectifier, and the external anode construction allows for more power in a smaller package; higher gain; better operation at higher frequency.
  
 Additionally, designers had the foresight to include the "Cool factor" for later generations


----------



## OPR8R

Just got back from the California Audio Show in San Francisco.  I got to hear some really nice gear, especially amps.  I wish I could have a few of them at home for a few nights.  The Headamp GS-X sounded really good.  The Cavalli Liquid Gold was pretty amazing though.  If I had to give up my Taboo to get another amp, the LG would be the one.  But if anything I left the meet/show even more pleased with my choice to buy the Decware.  I seriously doubt now that a better amp can be had near the Taboo's price point.


----------



## longbowbbs

Great to hear! (No pun intended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Decware gets you very close to that law of diminishing returns for a very nice price.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Great to hear! (No pun intended
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can't wait for the CSP3+.  It seems like the reviews on the Taboo 3 + CSP2+ are unanimous.


----------



## longbowbbs

Did you spring for the Jupiter Beeswax caps?


----------



## OPR8R

​


longbowbbs said:


> Did you spring for the Jupiter Beeswax caps?




I didn't. The day I ordered I was feeling too much guilt for what I was doing to my wallet (ZP3 and CSP2+ in one order). I'm trying not to think too much about that mistake.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am not dissatisfied with the CSP2+...No worries on the cap choice.


----------



## jazzgas

I am listening to the Album "Easy Living" and discovered something odd.  When I have it on regular stereo with my single ended Audeze LCD 2.2 Cans the soloist, Paul Desmond, sounds like he is in the back hall while Jim Hall is still on stage.  Switching to Old Lucid mode, Desmond returns to the stage.  I wouldn't have thought anything of this but I was listening to a remastered CD of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" yesterday where Canonball Adderly sounded like he was in the hall until I turned on old Lucid mode.  I vaguely remember reading something about the floating Ground that may have something to do with it.  Anyone have any ideas?  Mark


----------



## negura

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> I am listening to the Album "Easy Living" and discovered something odd.  When I have it on regular stereo with my single ended Audeze LCD 2.2 Cans the soloist, Paul Desmond, sounds like he is in the back hall while Jim Hall is still on stage.  Switching to Old Lucid mode, Desmond returns to the stage.  I wouldn't have thought anything of this but I was listening to a remastered CD of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" yesterday where Canonball Adderly sounded like he was in the hall until I turned on old Lucid mode.  I vaguely remember reading something about the floating Ground that may have something to do with it.  Anyone have any ideas?  Mark


 
   
  With single ended the Old Lucid Mode must be always on. With balanced I keep both lucid modes off.


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





negura said:


> With single ended the Old Lucid Mode must be always on. With balanced I keep both lucid modes off.


 
  Thanks Negura,  I was driving myself nuts trying to find the post about this.  I read the owner's manual and the write up when you click the "more info" link on decware's site....then I began reading this forum from post # 1 then I thought it'd be easier to just ask.
   
  What balanced cable are you using?  And why..  What is the difference from the stock single end cable?  I've been reading about them and it's a little confusing......cooper....silver....silver with gold, braided, litz, etc, etc.  Mark.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> Thanks Negura,  I was driving myself nuts trying to find the post about this.  I read the owner's manual and the write up when you click the "more info" link on decware's site....then I began reading this forum from post # 1 then I thought it'd be easier to just ask.
> 
> What balanced cable are you using?  And why..  What is the difference from the stock single end cable?  I've been reading about them and it's a little confusing......cooper....silver....silver with gold, braided, litz, etc, etc.  Mark.


 
   
  Balanced headphones wiring provides 2 grounds, one for each channel. The single ended grounds are soldered to a common point in the headphone jack. The explanation is on the lines of the Taboo being natively a speaker amp with 2 separate grounds, a balanced headphones connection is thus optimal.
   
  I have an aftermarket cable from Toxic Cables and I had them reterminate it to Balanced.


----------



## funch

I thought I'd post a couple of pix of the beeswax cap's I just installed in my CSP2+.
  No fitment issues here.


----------



## thegrobe

So the CSP uses four caps vs. two in the Taboo...I was wondering why the Jupiter cap mod was such a high cost on the CSP. I'm probably going to spring for that if I end up getting the CSP.

Nice work, BTW

I'm probably going to get a pair of the .10 uf Jupiter caps to swap into my Taboo. That way I can try both the v-caps and beeswax caps. Tube and cap rolling. That should ensure that I'm a nerd.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> So the CSP uses four caps vs. two in the Taboo...I was wondering why the Jupiter cap mod was such a high cost on the CSP. I'm probably going to spring for that if I end up getting the CSP.
> 
> Nice work, BTW
> 
> I'm probably going to get a pair of the .10 uf Jupiter caps to swap into my Taboo. That way I can try both the v-caps and beeswax caps. Tube and cap rolling. That should ensure that I'm a nerd.


 
  You sound like Purrin and Anaxilus in the Eddie Current forums....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, They were swapping Caps on a prototype Super7 before Craig even shipped one.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> You sound like Purrin and Anaxilus in the Eddie Current forums....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is it lame that I'm thinking of calling to see if it's not too late to upgrade?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nope...If it's not on the bench I am sure they can accommodate the changes.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Is it lame that I'm thinking of calling to see if it's not too late to upgrade?


 
  If it isn't shipped I'm sure they would be happy to do it for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you know you want to. go ahead...


----------



## OPR8R

bearfnf said:


> If it isn't shipped I'm sure they would be happy to do it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, it's in testing. I'll give them a call


----------



## Kendoji

So roughly two and a half months after placing my order my Taboo is finally here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I snuck out of the office this morning to pick it up at the post office.  And then snuck out again at lunchtime to set it up and have a quick listen.  I've attached it to my Violectric V800 and am using single ended cables with my HE-500 and HD 800 (I have a balanced cable from Forza on the way).  At first I couldn't get any sound out of it.  Just lots of hum.  I switched cables around, tried all the dials, pressed every button, but nothing came out, apart from varying degress of hum/noise.  I was about to give up, when I decided to switch from USB to optical on the V800 and then flicked a few more switches and magically sound came out.  So far I can't really comment on the sound, and there's no point anyway as all amps sound the same (just kidding!  ...or am I?).  But it's a big beautiful magnificent beast.  There's quite a lot of hum coming through, but I have it plugged into a power strip with a zillion other things.  I'll try and connect it to something cleaner.
   
  Exciting times!


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats on the new Taboo. Let us know how the break in period progresses.


----------



## Kendoji

Here she is...


----------



## Kendoji

So I just reviewed the other posts in this thread about hum issues.  Sounds like I need to check power and tubes.  I've plugged it into the wall, which reduced the hum slightly, but it's still very much there regardless of lucid mode setting.  Not audible when music is playing, but quite loud when it's not.  Suppose I'll try and track down some other output tubes to try.


----------



## negura

If you leave it ON for a little while the tubes might settle having been transported and all. Or not.
   
  Regarding power line issues I highly recommend this: http://upsmart.co.uk/ag500-regenerator-500w-p-1723.html (discount code: summer takes it to £200). If you look up my profile I posted a quick review.


----------



## Kendoji

Thanks negura.  I never considered a regenerator before, but that one is tempting.  It would be more tempting if my bank account wasn't already groaning in agony after my recent purchase of the Taboo, the HD 800, a new turntable, phono stage and a number of incomprehensibly expensive records, etc...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Fixing this hum issue might become a long term project.


----------



## OPR8R

Talked to Steve this morning re: CSP3+.  Basically the CSP3+ has a new layout.  While the CSP2+ was built around a pre-existing chassis, the CSP3+'s chassis was a fresh redesign.  He tells me the new one is very solid and higher mass, with less wiring internally.  I think I got all that right.  He always sounds so excited about his stuff, which gets me excited, and then I forget the details.
   
  And yeah, he let me upgrade the caps.  It'll be a few more days though.  I'll probably get it next week now


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Talked to Steve this morning re: CSP3+.  Basically the CSP3+ has a new layout.  While the CSP2+ was built around a pre-existing chassis, the CSP3+'s chassis was a fresh redesign.  He tells me the new one is very solid and higher mass, with less wiring internally.  I think I got all that right.  He always sounds so excited about his stuff, which gets me excited, and then I forget the details.
> 
> And yeah, he let me upgrade the caps.  It'll be a few more days though.  I'll probably get it next week now


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Here she is...


 
  Sexy beast she is!!!  You might try driving it with a portable (battery powered) device to see it is the source or the power going into the amp.  Or just unplug the source and see if the hum lessens.
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Talked to Steve this morning re: CSP3+.  Basically the CSP3+ has a new layout.  While the CSP2+ was built around a pre-existing chassis, the CSP3+'s chassis was a fresh redesign.  He tells me the new one is very solid and higher mass, with less wiring internally.  I think I got all that right.  He always sounds so excited about his stuff, which gets me excited, and then I forget the details.
> 
> And yeah, he let me upgrade the caps.  It'll be a few more days though.  I'll probably get it next week now


 
  Awesome!!! Can't wait for you to get it. Remember the pics.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Sexy beast she is!!!  You might try driving it with a portable (battery powered) device to see it is the source or the power going into the amp.  Or just unplug the source and see if the hum lessens.
> 
> Awesome!!! Can't wait for you to get it. Remember the pics.


 
   
  Well it's quite easy to tell. Just unplug it. It will keep playing for another 5-6 seconds. If there's no hum it's the power line.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Talked to Steve this morning re: CSP3+.  Basically the CSP3+ has a new layout.  While the CSP2+ was built around a pre-existing chassis, the CSP3+'s chassis was a fresh redesign.  He tells me the new one is very solid and higher mass, with less wiring internally.  I think I got all that right.  He always sounds so excited about his stuff, which gets me excited, and then I forget the details.
> 
> And yeah, he let me upgrade the caps.  It'll be a few more days though.  I'll probably get it next week now


 
  Fantastic!


----------



## thegrobe

Awesome. Somebody talk me out of ordering the CSP. 

Awhile ago I was contemplating the GS-X 2 vs. Taboo 3. Decided on the Taboo partly due to it costing substantially less. 

Now I'm loving the Taboo enough that I'm seriously close to pulling the trigger on the CSP to fill out my rig. Funny thing is the two together are the cost of the GS-X which I originally decided was too much. Now maybe I've reconsidered the expense. The Decware rig is more flexible, tweakable, etc. plus drives speakers. Two really different amps, really different ways to spend the same gob of money.

Aside from the minor hum issue, I think the Taboo is near perfect. It's still minor but slightly noticeable between songs and during quiet passages. (This is even with both lucid modes off) I think the hum may be dirty power related ....so got to keep messing with that. 

Also got yet another selection of tubes coming in a couple days from Jim McShane to try. All my tubes I've had so far are used, old, etc. so don't really know if they may be contributing. 

Anybody running CSP/Taboo 3/LCD-3 who can give notes off LCD-3/Taboo with and without CSP in the chain?

Somebody talk me out of the CSP?  ?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Awesome. Somebody talk me out of ordering the CSP.
> 
> Awhile ago I was contemplating the GS-X 2 vs. Taboo 3. Decided on the Taboo partly due to it costing substantially less.
> 
> ...


 
  Talk you out of it? Why would we do that?


----------



## thegrobe

Lol longbow. I know no one here will tell me it's a stupid idea. I have to do this, it's my decision making process. 



negura said:


> Well it's quite easy to tell. Just unplug it. It will keep playing for another 5-6 seconds. If there's no hum it's the power line.




I tried this- absolutely zero hum when unplugged and still playing. A dead black background. So that's good. I guess this unit is very sensitive to power issues. I wonder though could it be a noisy or faulty transformer...

I guess I'll get some sort of AC filter etc and keep experimenting.


----------



## negura

There are tons of power products and for good reason. Some of them are fantastic and some pretty awful. Pay particular attention to dynamics when you acquire filters/conditioners/etc and best to make sure they come with return policies.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Lol longbow. I know no one here will tell me it's a stupid idea. I have to do this, it's my decision making process.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I appreciate the dilemma. For the same price I could have a ZDSE with some great tubes. The versatility is what attracted me. I listen to speakers as much as HP's. The tubes are awesome in either way.


----------



## negura

It does both speakers and Stax (via Wee). And the whole shabang drives the SR007s very well and these are a b**** to amp. 
  In fact I am selling all my dynamics, but that's the bad news sort of.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have never heard any Stax..Never even seen one in person...Considering how much I love the HD800's it would be fun to try them one time.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have never heard any Stax..Never even seen one in person...Considering how much I love the HD800's it would be fun to try them one time.


 
   
  The Stax SR007 MKIs I find quite ugly to be honest. I wish I have not heard them at the last meet. That said well amped HD800s are really good as we all know.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1 to that!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have never heard any Stax..Never even seen one in person...Considering how much I love the HD800's it would be fun to try them one time.


 
  Hey, next time I go to Hibbing/Duluth I will let you know, maybe I could bring my Stax Lambda over for you to hear. I you are interested.


----------



## longbowbbs

That would be fun Bear. I will be in Ely the weekend after Labor day too. We'll be up on Moose lake with about 300 Scouts.


----------



## OPR8R

I heard the Stax-009 for the first time this weekend.  It was very good, but I feel like at that level you need time at home to really appreciate it.  I did, however, appreciate the build. 
   
  I also got to hear the HD-800 for the first time.  It's also very good, but I was surprised how similar it is, in many ways, to the LCD-3.


----------



## mmlogic

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Lol longbow. I know no one here will tell me it's a stupid idea. I have to do this, it's my decision making process.
> I tried this- absolutely zero hum when unplugged and still playing. A dead black background. So that's good. I guess this unit is very sensitive to power issues. I wonder though could it be a noisy or faulty transformer...
> 
> I guess I'll get some sort of AC filter etc and keep experimenting.


 
  I tried this, the hum disappeared right away when unplugged, but I don't think it's a power issue, because I tried my Taboo in 3 different locations, and bought a power regulator too, didn't do any good, the problem is in the machine.


----------



## Kendoji

The hum on my Taboo seemed to settle down a bit last night after having the amp on for several hours.  It was still audible, but less prominent than when I first turned it on.  It's too early for sound impressions (which I'm rubbish at anyway), but so far it seems a bit less warm than my V200.  This means reaching for the HE-500 a bit more often than the HD 800 at the moment, which I suppose isn't too strange as the amp was specifically designed for orthos.
   
  It's such a magnificent machine.  I love the quirky boutique hand-made look and feel of it.  The fact that there are absolutely no instructions in the box.  That none of the switches or plugs are labelled.  That the volume knob is perilously close to the scorching hot input tube.


----------



## Kendoji

Oh and the bizarre new lucid mode.  It's such a wonderfully strange feature to include with the amp.  I can't imagine ever using it for a serious listening session, but it will be great to flick the switch when guests are over just to see the look on their face.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mmlogic said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wonder if it is a tube? Mine Taboo is dead quiet.


----------



## Kendoji

It seems like a common challenge.  Has anyone put the question to Decware?


----------



## Gustav Mahler

A number of people have reported a similar problem with the Schiit Mjolnir (which I own).  In those cases dimmer switches seem to be the source of the problem.
   
  Cheers!
   
  Gus


----------



## mmlogic

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I wonder if it is a tube? Mine Taboo is dead quiet.


 
  I've tried many tubes, 5R4 6BQ5 and 6299, I'm sure it's not a tube problem, tube hum change with volume, this hum is fixed.


----------



## mmlogic

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> The hum on my Taboo seemed to settle down a bit last night after having the amp on for several hours.  It was still audible, but less prominent than when I first turned it on.  It's too early for sound impressions (which I'm rubbish at anyway), but so far it seems a bit less warm than my V200.  This means reaching for the HE-500 a bit more often than the HD 800 at the moment, which I suppose isn't too strange as the amp was specifically designed for orthos.
> 
> It's such a magnificent machine.  I love the quirky boutique hand-made look and feel of it.  The fact that there are absolutely no instructions in the box.  That none of the switches or plugs are labelled.  That the volume knob is perilously close to the scorching hot input tube.


 
  If you feel your Taboo sound too leaner, try Amperex 6299 (mine is white label PQ big O getter), that works for me, I've also tried Siemens cca and TFK ECC88, but they only make things worse.


----------



## negura

For a fuller body sound I would get EL84s. Amperex 1960s do nice and I am actually preferring some Bentley EL84s I bought quite cheap in the UK (not exactly sure who makes them as they may actually be relabeled tubes).


----------



## thegrobe

Maybe the difference reported in hum/noise floor has to do with impedance of different headphones. 

Example my LCD-3 are 45 ohm. Maybe using high impedance headphone such as HD800 @ 300 ohm it's not audible. Which may be weird because this amp was designed for LCD.

That's one other thing I've noticed, my other desktop amps I could use my CIEM's if I wanted. On this amp it's just a mess, unusable due to the hum. That's the acid test..anybody actually able to use IEM's with this? 

This is a frustrating thing to deal with. If it's normal, it's barely acceptable. If it's power quality from my home, I need to troubleshoot it and spend $ on that (I've never had issues with ANY other gear - and the amp is already on a strip with A.C. filter/noise rejection) If the amp is actually faulty I need to identify that and ship it back and who knows what that entails ($) because I bought it used. 

I guess I should ask Decware about it, but they have so far been non-responsive to my questions about purchasing a new CSP3 so not too excited about trying to get support for a second-hand amp.

I absolutely love LOVE LOVE the sound of this amp. But gotta figure out what's going on before I jump into buying the pre-amp.

Can anyone else hear a physical hum from the transformer? Nothing plugged in or out, the actual transformer humming a bit. Audible from maybe a couple feet away in a quiet room.


----------



## OPR8R

The weird thing about the hum is sometimes I hear it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll hear a hum just before I start my listening session, but it's gone by the time I finish. Other times, it's the other way around. Sometimes I get a hum after listening to vinyl for an hour or so. Sometimes it's dead quiet. I'm not willing, at this point, to spend money trying to fix it, because while I listen to music I hear no hum. On the list of things that degrade my experience the hum doesn't even rank compared to my noisy neighborhood (cars, drunks, and wildlife), however, I'm hoping a move will kill both birds with a single stone. The thing is, I hate moving. I checked for a hum off the transformer and couldn't hear one.


----------



## negura

My Taboo is dead quiet. The only times I had hums was with one (clearly) bad tube and one vintage tube (1950s) before the pins went through a good doze of Deoxit and cleaning. I am no longer even getting that faint presence with the New Lucid Mode engaged. Don't ask me why, but I am very glad. Maybe it's the power regen.


----------



## thegrobe

negura said:


> My Taboo is dead quiet. The only times I had hums was with one (clearly) bad tube and one vintage tube (1950s) before the pins went through a good doze of Deoxit and cleaning. I am no longer even getting that faint presence with the New Lucid Mode engaged. Don't ask me why, but I am very glad. Maybe it's the power regen.




I checked out that regenerator you posted the link to earlier, looks like it's a 240v only unit otherwise I would give it a try.

So would you say your taboo is quiet enough that you could use sensitive ciem's without background noise?

It's odd, I can put the LCD's or even ciem's on there and crank the volume 100% (without music playing of course) and not a hint of hiss. None. 

But the background hum is constant and does not change with volume.

I have a theory... that the quality control/ build of the transformers is a bit spotty. Some are good, some are noisy. 

I guess I'll try to get Mr. Deckert on the phone sometime this week and help me troubleshoot. Probably need to send it in. Well there goes any $ I saved by buying used. Crap.


----------



## negura

I have several IEMs but I cba to test right now, however I am extensively using the LCD-3s. Dead quiet. 
  I am also amping Stax that require about 20% more volume for the same dB as dynamics. With both the Taboo maxed and PWD2 preamp maxed, 0 background noise.


----------



## negura

Ok folks I am on a mission: I need EL84s that are similar in transparency and signature to the stock 6p15p. It appears the EL84 have additional power and I need it.
  The Amperex EL84 I have are warmer and the Bentley too bright. Need to strike the fine balance. Any suggestions?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Ok folks I am on a mission: I need EL84s that are similar in transparency and signature to the stock 6p15p. It appears the EL84 have additional power and I need it.
> The Amperex EL84 I have are warmer and the Bentley too bright. Need to strike the fine balance. Any suggestions?


 
  Raz, I have a pair of these and I really like them....
   
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Philips-6BQ5-%7B47%7D-EL84.html


----------



## funch

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I replaced the stock Rectifier tubes with USAF-596's. They are a 4 pin that need an adapter. I got the adapters from 2359Glenn here on Head-Fi.
> 
> To quote Silent One regarding the external wires:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Does 2359Glenn make the adapters. I have a JAN-596, but had to get the adapter from ebay. Not a terribly good one, so looking for something better.


----------



## longbowbbs

Yes, 2359Glenn makes them. I have two and they work perfectly.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Yes, 2359Glenn makes them. I have two and they work perfectly.


 
   
  Cool. I will PM him. I have the eBay chinese one and not particularly pleased with the build quality.


----------



## Kendoji

I just ordered a cheap RCA 5Y3GT and a couple of Tungsram EL84s. Should be fun.
   
  Regarding the hum, I put my ear to the transformer last night (with no music playing) and it's definitely humming loudly. @ Those of you who aren't getting any hum, does yours do the same?
   
  Also, mine came with the Valve Art 274B rectifier - which isn't the one mentioned on the product pages. Did everyone else get this rectifier too?


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I just ordered a cheap RCA 5Y3GT and a couple of Tungsram EL84s. Should be fun.
> 
> Regarding the hum, I put my ear to the transformer last night (with no music playing) and it's definitely humming loudly. @ Those of you who aren't getting any hum, does yours do the same?
> 
> Also, mine came with the Valve Art 274B rectifier - which isn't the one mentioned on the product pages. Did everyone else get this rectifier too?


 
   
  Kendoji,
   
  My CSP2+ and Taboo III are dead silent. I had them foil lined when I ordered them to reduce the likelihood of EMI/hum interference from any of my computer equipment which sits right next to my Decware equipment. I did this based on the fact that the Decware phono stage ZP3 is foil lined for EMI shielding. I figured it couldn't hurt to do it for the CSP and Taboo since their wooden cases are not normally foil lined. It has to be requested at the time of order.  I'm not sure this will reduce or solve your hum problem, particularly, if, as you believe, it might be due to transformer variability.
   
  My Taboo III came with the VA 274B. Steve tells me that he believes the VA274B is just a slightly better grade 5U4G in a 274B bottle. He seems to be shipping these tubes more often in Taboo IIIs, probably because they sound better than Chinese Ruby 5U4Gs. My stock VA 274B started to arc (flash over) after something like 100 hours of use. This is to be expected for most 274B type tubes because the Taboo III use 47uf caps and 274Bs want to see 10uf or less otherwise they will arc and eventually die. When I spoke to Steve about it, he told me that it was probably a weak tube from the beginning and to just trash it. He says, so far, the VA274B is holding up if you get a good one. Anyway, since I like the sound of the VA 274B, I ordered two more cryoed VA274Bs from Cryoset and they have been working fine (so far, about 75 hours) in my CSP+ and Taboo III. I'm wondering if the cryo treatment helps toughen up the tubes.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I just ordered a cheap RCA 5Y3GT and a couple of Tungsram EL84s. Should be fun.
> 
> Regarding the hum, I put my ear to the transformer last night (with no music playing) and it's definitely humming loudly. @ Those of you who aren't getting any hum, does yours do the same?
> 
> Also, mine came with the Valve Art 274B rectifier - which isn't the one mentioned on the product pages. Did everyone else get this rectifier too?


 
   
  Transformer humming no. Valve Art yes. Good call on the RCA and let us know about the Tungsram compared to stock tubes.  I need to start rolling some output tubes.


----------



## thegrobe

So it sounds like those who have a "silent" Taboo through headphones have no physical noise coming from the transformer.

Those with audible hum through headphones can also hear the transformer physically humming with no cables or headphones plugged in. 

Good. This is good information to have when I get Steve on the phone. Thanks folks for helping out.


----------



## Kendoji

Yes, this is very helpful!  FYI I've also created a thread on the Decware forums:
   
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1376488724/0#0


----------



## koiloco

Well, let the wait begin for me.  Hopefully, I'll receive it before Xmas so I can wrap it up myself, put it under the Xmas tree and act so surprised as if it came from Santa.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully, my wife will believe that amazing story.
   
  Also, Steve just got an accident.  I received an auto email from Devon today in reply to my questions.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





koiloco said:


> Well, let the wait begin for me.  Hopefully, I'll receive it before Xmas so I can wrap it up myself, put it under the Xmas tree and act so surprised as if it came from Santa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I talked to DeVon earlier this week.  We're pretty lucky.  Steve fell off a ladder and spent the weekend in recovery.  It was bad enough for him to miss his daughter's wedding.  Scary.
   
  Also, I listened for around 3 hours last night.  I heard no hum throughout.  Still no hum off my transformer either.


----------



## Kendoji

Ouch, poor Steve.

Well regarding the hum I'm increasingly worried that it's a hardware problem with recently built Taboos. Having to ship it back to the US for repair would be a nightmare. I'm not sure I could bring myself to go through it. But I don't think I could live with the hum either.


----------



## IHMEYERS

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Amp is certainly warmed up. So not that. I'll try the other set of output tubes I have later today. Thanks.
> 
> Anyone else? Lucid mode humming?


 

 I had some humming as well, especially when paired with the CSP2+.  This has been mitigated to a large degree when replacing the stock tubes in the CSP2+ (the stock tubes in the Taboo had previously been replaced).  There is a very low level of hum now, but only with the volume controls on both amp and preamp wide open which is way louder than normal listening levels.
   
  Unrelated to above, I became aware this morning that Steve has been injured falling from a ladder.  Thank G-d he will be OK but he is just out of the hospital and isn't back to work yet.
   
  Wishing him a speedy recovery!


----------



## Kendoji

Hmm this is a long shot, but just now I put my ear close to the transformer again to hear the hum, and realised that I can't be certain that it isn't coming from the rectifier. Is it possible / advisable to try switching the Taboo on without the rectifier inserted, or is that a bad idea?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





ihmeyers said:


> I had some humming as well, especially when paired with the CSP2+.  This has been mitigated to a large degree when replacing the stock tubes in the CSP2+ (the stock tubes in the Taboo had previously been replaced).  There is a very low level of hum now, but only with the volume controls on both amp and preamp wide open which is way louder than normal listening levels.
> 
> Unrelated to above, I became aware this morning that Steve has been injured falling from a ladder.  Thank G-d he will be OK but he is just out of the hospital and isn't back to work yet.
> 
> Wishing him a speedy recovery!


 
  Steve was at work when I spoke with him Monday.  It was only after I spoke with him and was given back to DeVon that I found out he had been injured, so I didn't get to ask him about it directly.
   
  Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Hmm this is a long shot, but just now I put my ear close to the transformer again to hear the hum, and realised that I can't be certain that it isn't coming from the rectifier. Is it possible / advisable to try switching the Taboo on without the rectifier inserted, or is that a bad idea?


 
  I think I remember reading that will blow the fuse, but I could be wrong.


----------



## thegrobe

ihmeyers said:


> I had some humming as well, especially when paired with the CSP2+.  This has been mitigated to a large degree when replacing the stock tubes in the CSP2+ (the stock tubes in the Taboo had previously been replaced).  There is a very low level of hum now, but only with the volume controls on both amp and preamp wide open which is way louder than normal listening levels.
> 
> Unrelated to above, I became aware this morning that Steve has been injured falling from a ladder.  Thank G-d he will be OK but he is just out of the hospital and isn't back to work yet.
> 
> Wishing him a speedy recovery!




First off, yikes! I hope Steve is okay and recovers quickly. That is far far more important than any problems anybody may be having with an amplifier.

IHMYERES- the hum I (and I believe Kendoji) are having is independent of volume setting. It is constant regardless of volume all the way down or up. In fact, I can crank the volume 100%, ( with no music playing of course) and plug in very sensitive IEM's and get zero HISS. So I know the amp is quiet other than this hum.




kendoji said:


> Hmm this is a long shot, but just now I put my ear close to the transformer again to hear the hum, and realised that I can't be certain that it isn't coming from the rectifier. Is it possible / advisable to try switching the Taboo on without the rectifier inserted, or is that a bad idea?




I don't know if that's a good idea. The manual states that the only thing that would blow the amps fuse is a bad rectifier. So maybe no rectifier is bad? That said, I have three different rectifiers I've tried and the hum is unchanged. Put a wood stick to the transformer and the other end to your ear. An old mechanics trick to identify where a noise is coming from.


----------



## Kendoji

I actually just found an old 'hum troubleshooting' document on the Decware site where Steve recommends removing each tube, one at a time, and turning the amp on to check for hum. I just did this without problems, but unfortunately the hum was still there without tubes. So it's really something to do with the amplifier.


----------



## Kendoji

FYI: http://www.decware.com/paper41.htm


----------



## thegrobe

I'll try the same when I get a chance.


----------



## Kendoji

On a lighter note, I ordered and received some nifty little Neutrik dummyplugs to cover up the XLR and 1/4 inch sockets when not in use. They're just simple little rubber things, but they look good and cost almost nothing. I can post a pic if folks are interested. I got the tip from the Decware forum.


----------



## negura

Link please?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





negura said:


> Link please?


 

 + 1


----------



## Steve Eddy

http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/plugs-jacks/jack-accessories/ndj

se


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/plugs-jacks/jack-accessories/ndj
> 
> se


 

 You're like a mind reader.  I was just by your site last night because I may need more cables.


----------



## Kendoji

http://www.bax-shop.nl/accessoires/neutrik-ndj-dummy-plug-voor-jack-chassisdelen/product-details.html

http://www.bax-shop.nl/accessoires/neutrik-ndf-dummy-plug-voor-xlr-female-chassisdelen/product-details.html

They have them in US webshops too.


----------



## negura

Cheers. Also found them below and bought a couple of them.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neutrik-NDJ-dummyPLUG-Dummy-Plug-for-Jack-1-4-6-35mm-Socket-Connectors-02797-/370865193724?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&hash=item565949c2fc


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Hmm this is a long shot, but just now I put my ear close to the transformer again to hear the hum, and realised that I can't be certain that it isn't coming from the rectifier. Is it possible / advisable to try switching the Taboo on without the rectifier inserted, or is that a bad idea?


 
  You might want to read Steve white paper on troubleshooting hum:
   
  Quote: 





> [size=10pt]TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE FOR ZEN TRIODE/TORII AMPLIFIERS[/size]
> [size=10pt]STEP 1 - Remove the interconnects from your amplifier so that the only thing hooked to it is your loudspeakers.  Turn the volume control (if it has one) all the way down.  Turn on the amp and let it warm up for a minute.  [/size]
> [size=10pt]_I hear hum from both channels - _If you hear hum from both channels it could be caused from a bad input tube.  *Turn the amp off and remove the input tube*.  On the SE84C, SE84CS and SV83M this is a single tube located farthest towards the front of the amplifier.  On the SE34I and TORII this is the small tube located farthest towards the rear. (Note: Only the TORII-C has an input tube, the TORII-A and TORII-B do not). Turn the amp on without the input tube.  If the hum stops, try a different input tube.  If the hum continues with different input tubes, and if your amplifier has a rectifier tube, try replacing the rectifier tube.  If the hum continues there is a problem with the amplifier.[/size]
> [size=10pt]I hear hum from only one channel - Hearing hum from only one channel usually means that you have a bad tube.  Try the same proceedure above with input tubes.  If that doesn't solve the problem, try reversing the output tubes by swaping the left and right tubes.  If the hum is now on the other speaker, replace that output tube.[/size]
> ...


 
   
  http://www.decware.com/paper41.htm


----------



## Kendoji

Yep thanks, I found that too and posted it at the top of this page.


----------



## mwindham08

I just got in my Toxic Cable's Silver Widow and now I hear a faint hum as well.
   
  Pretty sure it wasn't there before so I guess these cables really are transparent!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> You're like a mind reader.  I was just by your site last night because I may need more cables.


 
   





   
  The reason the plugs caught my attention is because some time back I had some nice dummy plugs made out of Delrin and was offering them at-cost (which wasn't exactly cheap because they were machined). Wasn't aware of the Neutrik plug at the time and then someone pointed it out. After that I just gave them away.
   
  se


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> The reason the plugs caught my attention is because some time back I had some nice dummy plugs made out of Delrin and was offering them at-cost (which wasn't exactly cheap because they were machined). Wasn't aware of the Neutrik plug at the time and then someone pointed it out. After that I just gave them away.
> 
> se


 

 Delrin...  I've been considering a Delrin platter upgrade for my Rega.  Anyway, it's good to hear from you.
   
  I think I'm going to just get some of these plugs on Ebay.  There doesn't seem to be many retailers in the US.


----------



## WNBC

Just got back home after a work trip and getting caught up on this thread.
   
  I had a problem with transformer hum on the MKIII and sent it in.  Steve fixed it.  No transformer hum now.  I asked DeVon about it and she mentioned a loose wire inside the Taboo.  Still have the low hum from the use of new lucid mode.  It is not volume dependent which is nice because at normal listening levels it can't be heard.  Mainly heard during low level passages.   Old lucid mode is near black in background so I'm sure it isn't the tubes but rather something else going on.  I don't own any high impedance or balanced headphones to know whether this hum is less present in other operations. 
   
  On a separate note, thinking of picking up a used Bottlehead Foreplay III preamp.  Anybody every try them?  I know they are considered very good.  An opportunity to try what a preamp can do in line with the MKIII.  
   
   
  Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Regarding the hum, I put my ear to the transformer last night (with no music playing) and it's definitely humming loudly. @ Those of you who aren't getting any hum, does yours do the same?
> 
> Also, mine came with the Valve Art 274B rectifier - which isn't the one mentioned on the product pages. Did everyone else get this rectifier too?


----------



## Kendoji

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I had a problem with transformer hum on the MKIII and sent it in.  Steve fixed it.  No transformer hum now.  I asked DeVon about it and she mentioned a loose wire inside the Taboo.


 
   
  Ouch, if that's the case I'd be tempted to open it up and root around in there myself.  Well I'd be tempted but would never do it as I'm technically illiterate.  I would hate to have to ship it back to the US just for a loose wire. I guess these are the risks you have to accept when you order this kind of boutique stuff from overseas.


----------



## WNBC

There could also be multiple different ways to get the same transformer hum problem so I would not recommend diagnosing the problem unless you are already technically proficient.  My situation could be different than yours and I never got to speak to Steve.  I may have been given the quick explanation but there could be more to the story.  In the end, quite a hassle to ship back to the US but well worth it long term if you were planning on keeping the Taboo for years to come.  
       
   
  Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Ouch, if that's the case I'd be tempted to open it up and root around in there myself.  Well I'd be tempted but would never do it as I'm technically illiterate.  I would hate to have to ship it back to the US just for a loose wire. I guess these are the risks you have to accept when you order this kind of boutique stuff from overseas.


----------



## Kendoji

Yep, I'll grudgingly ship it back if I need to.  Listening last night I didn't find the hum all obnoxious.  When music is playing it's certainly not an audible annoyance.  But I know it's there and notice it between songs and in quiet parts.  It's a stark contrast to the inky blackness of my V200, and I don't think I could ever entirely make peace with it.
   
  I've now also sent an email to Decware.


----------



## thegrobe

kendoji said:


> Yep, I'll grudgingly ship it back if I need to.  Listening last night I didn't find the hum all obnoxious.  When music is playing it's certainly not an audible annoyance.  But I know it's there and notice it between songs and in quiet parts.  It's a stark contrast to the inky blackness of my V200, and I don't think I could ever entirely make peace with it.
> 
> I've now also sent an email to Decware.




I'm going to order one of these today, it is specifically designed to remove DC offset from power which can cause "transformer hum". Also without limiting current and therefore dynamics. It's something to try in case dirty power is the culprit. I have a couple power cables from them and they are pretty good quality stuff and reasonably priced. In the meantime, I'll still contact Decware to see what they say.

Kendoji, is your unit 240v? They only have this in 120v version. maybe you can find something similar if this ends up working.

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/cmx2

On another, more positive note, I had several hours of listening last night with a new Genelex 6922 in the front position. Very nice. Also a pair of their EL84's in there. Of course they aren't broken in yet but the 6922 seems very balanced. The EL84 seem a bit analytical. My other old Amperex Holland EL84 are more round and full sounding. The stock output tubes seem somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Kendoji

That looks interesting, will be very curious to hear if it helps. Indeed mine is 240v, but I imagine there might be something similar available over here. Let us know how it goes!

In the meantime I'm still enjoying the burn-in and am looking forward to my first tubes arriving. I sometimes get the feeling that the sound is a bit odd, in a way I can't quite describe, but that's probably either my brain or the Taboo burning in.


----------



## thegrobe

I had the opportunity yesterday to talk to both DeVon and Steve for a bit. Both about my questions regarding the CSP3 and also the hum issue I am having.
   
  They were both very helpful and put my mind at ease about the hum problem. I have decided to wait until the power conditioner I linked above arrives to rule out the last possible variable, which may be dirty power. If that fixes it, good. If it does not fix it, this is where Decware's great service comes in - Even though my unit was bought used, if I need to send it in for a repair, they will just charge me for the warranty transfer service and fix whatever the problem is, all-inclusive. DeVon also said the turn around on repair, etc is about a week or week and a half so not too bad. 
   
  I was having unease thinking I would have to pay some large repair bill in the event that I had to send it in, so worst case is I'm out $100 plus shipping, then I've got a lifetime warranty. No worries. I'll report back after the power conditioner/DC blocker gizmo arrives. 
   
  I'll be ordering up a CSP3 as well, so pretty excited about that. 
   
  And Kendoji - Steve told me one other thing to check would be the bolts on the transformer. Get a good screwdriver and make sure they are snug. He said it is possible that those loosen up a bit after build/shipping and could cause the transformer to vibrate. So something to check.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I'll be ordering up a CSP3 as well, so pretty excited about that.


 
  Anything in particular you've learnt that facilitated your decision to order the CSP3?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I had the opportunity yesterday to talk to both DeVon and Steve for a bit. Both about my questions regarding the CSP3 and also the hum issue I am having.
> 
> They were both very helpful and put my mind at ease about the hum problem. I have decided to wait until the power conditioner I linked above arrives to rule out the last possible variable, which may be dirty power. If that fixes it, good. If it does not fix it, this is where Decware's great service comes in - Even though my unit was bought used, if I need to send it in for a repair, they will just charge me for the warranty transfer service and fix whatever the problem is, all-inclusive. DeVon also said the turn around on repair, etc is about a week or week and a half so not too bad.
> 
> ...


 

 Let us know how the filter goes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Another good example of why Decware is so good. The product and the service are top notch!


----------



## Kendoji

I'll check the screwdriver thing!

Despite the hum issues, I'm having tons of fun with this amp. Yesterday I received my Forza Audioworks Noir balanced cable for my HD 800. Forza is another great option for those who don't their cables to cost more than their headphones (or take six months to arrive). Anyway, this was the first time I could listen to the Taboo with old lucid mode off. It was an immediate revelation. Previously with the HD 800 I had a niggling feeling that my V200 had been a better match. But it immediately became clear to me that old lucid mode had been elevating certain frequencies that made the Senns, to my ears, sound a bit harsh and artificial on some recordings. With both lucid modes off, suddenly it all made a lot more sense.

I'm also starting to dabble in vinyl for the first time, with a newly bought budget Pro-Ject turntable. At the moment I'm using a very cheap preamp, but hopefully one day I'll order the Decware one. In the meantime, I've found that the Senns aren't a good match at all, as they make the crackles far too sharp and prominent for me. Today, for fun, I dug out my Grado RS1is. I've always had a kind of hate-hate relationship with them, feeling that they're bright, harsh and bass-less. But weirdly they sound fantastic on the Taboo with my cheap phono setup. There's plenty of bass, and the whole presentation when listening to a new pressing of Affinity's s/t from 1970 is great. It's the most I've ever enjoyed the Grados.

Lots of fun to be had here.


----------



## Kendoji

Here's a gratuitous photo of my new cable.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Here's a gratuitous photo of my new cable.


 
  I love Audio porn i the morning! Nice pic.


----------



## negura

Some of the best just popped on eBay again: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151103332158&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





negura said:


> Some of the best just popped on eBay again: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151103332158&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


 
   
  LOL What does this mean in the description:
   
*EVENTUALLY ITALIAN BUYERS ARE WELCOME​*


----------



## negura

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> LOL What does this mean in the description:
> 
> *EVENTUALLY ITALIAN BUYERS ARE WELCOME​*


 
   
  Itglish.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





negura said:


> Anything in particular you've learnt that facilitated your decision to order the CSP3?


 
   
  Well, a couple things. Okay a few. I tend to be long winded so hang on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .....But I think this info may be useful to others so I'll post it. There was a lot of info passed along so forgive me if I botch something or misunderstand. 
   
  1) Speaking with Steve, I got a better understanding of the advantages and disadvantages of using the CSP3 paired with the Taboo in a system that is 90% headphone use. The advantages are several. Better punch and weight to the music with an overall sonic improvement. A wider degree of adjustment overall to "tweak" the system to your liking. Other than rolling tubes on the Taboo, you have tubes to roll in the pre, all the trim settings, etc. One thing he mentioned that I thought was interesting was this: Have you had a listening session that just wasn't grabbing you? For whatever reason - the music track, the gear, tubes, headphones combo just wasn't doing anything special for whatever reason. Well since the CSP also has it's own headphone out, try plugging into the other output and you have another window into the music. Then "oh yeah, that's it!" .....Or something along those lines. 
   
  He also mentioned that the CSP in the system will make 9 out of 10 DAC's sound much much better. Basically getting all the tube goodness as the analog stage, and creating a stronger signal for the Taboo gets you a good jump in overall sound quality. An interesting thing we discussed is this - My DAC (Audio-gd SA-1.32) has a low and high gain setting, 1.25 and 2.5v. This was kind of speculation on Steve's part, but he mentioned that possibly the low gain stage is more pure than the high gain stage, which may have additional circuitry, etc to boost the signal. So using the low gain setting and having the CSP do the "heavy lifting" may add a bit more. Again, just speculation depending on how the low/high gain in my DAC is handled. 
   
  Basically, if you like the sound of their amplifiers, the system that has both CSP and Taboo in it has enough tweakability to optimize for any headphone you may have. And speakers too. All good stuff and looking to be an end game setup for me. Lots of good information shared. 
   
  To balance all the upsides, there is one downside to adding the CSP..... A slight loss of transparency. Steve mentioned that since their gear is so transparent to begin with, this is a pretty small consideration. The loss of transparency can be mitigated by using proper silver interconnects, careful tube selection, using stepped attenuators in the units. Also possibly by using low gain in my DAC as mentioned above. 
   
  2) Now the other thing that helped cement my decision on the CSP3 is the manner in which my questions about the hum issue with the Taboo were addressed. It is a big deal for me to have a company that stands behind their products. Even though my unit was bought second-hand, DeVon assured me that it would be repaired, no question about it. Just as part of the warranty transfer. That is if it is indeed faulty and needs repair. 
   
  Had I heard a response such as, "Uh, well hum may be normal, blah blah, maybe there's nothing wrong with it...all people hear differently" or "sure, we will charge you a whole bunch to look at it and repair it, blah blah" ...some sort of run-around....Well if I heard that kind of thing, I would be questioning if I even wanted to keep the unit, let alone expand the system with more of their products. But the response I got was reassuring and helpful and friendly. Pretty much, "don't worry we will fix it" My kind of company I want to deal with. 
   
  Sorry for the long winded response, but there was a lot of good info shared and I figured it's good stuff to pass along.
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Let us know how the filter goes.


 
   
  Will do! Should be here Thursday
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Another good example of why Decware is so good. The product and the service are top notch!


 
   
  Yup!


----------



## negura

Thanks for the detailed summary. This should be reassuring for many and the reasons I ordered the CSP3+ are along these lines. 
   
  I have actually requested to cancel my CSP3+ order. If anyone reading this has the intention to place a new CSP3+ order and wants to try and get my place in the line, please PM me and I will contact Decware to propose to change the owner for my order. The reason for this is I am moving 100% into electrostats and will be selling all my dynamic heapdhones gear in 3-4 months or so, when my SR009s are ready. Which is a pity as I LOVE the Taboo, but I can't have two sets of gear. My new electrostatic amplifier will be connected in balanced mode to the PWD2 so no joy with the CSP3.


----------



## longbowbbs

Joining the mafia....They made you an offer you couldn't refuse...


----------



## thegrobe

Yeah, reassurance that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks is what I was concerned with. 

I'm sure I left some stuff out, but I posted most of what I got from the conversation.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Joining the mafia....They made you an offer you couldn't refuse...


 
   
  I don't know what you are talking about. And even if I knew I can't confirm anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But the SR007s have already convinced me a while ago and it gets better from there. The rest is a matter of time.


----------



## funch

Here's another filter option for the DIY'ers in the house: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115814.0


----------



## Rizlaw

Since everyone has been speculating on the new CSP3 on this thread I thought this would be the best place to give you guys the first look at CSP3 Serial No. 001. Arrived via UPS about an hour ago. Sorry for the poor photos taken with an old Motorola cellphone.  The CSP3 in photos has all of the options Steve currently offers. Notice the new headphone jacks. You can order it with dual phono's or dual XLRs, but not a mix of each (which is what I originally ordered). Before he shipped my CSP3 out he called to tell me that he decided against offering a mix of phono/xlr jacks.


----------



## koiloco

Wow, very similar looking and layout as the current Taboo.  Nice...


----------



## OPR8R

Whoa! So they got some wood base CSP3+'s out. Thanks for the pics. Any day now and mine will ship, I hope.


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet!!  Like the black top.


----------



## negura

Too quiet today.
   
  Thanks for the good tips towards the Philips EL84s. The ones I decided to go for are these: Philips Miniwatt EL84 made in Holland in the Sittard Factory . rX2 construction with D getters. Word is these are actually Amperex, but branded Philips/Miniwatt. I generally had excellent experience with other 1950s tubes. But oh boy do these sound fantastic. 
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400547704479?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Finally a complete upgrade over the stock output tubes, as they retain and improve the transparency, but with better details, bass, attack, exceptional clarity and some really fantastic mids. I only had them for a few days but very pleased so far.
   
  What I am rolling with at the moment:
  Amperex "pinched waist" 6922 (1950s)
  Philips Miniwatt EL84 D getter (1950s)
  RCA double D getter 1951
   
  I am still waiting on the WE274B to complete my rectifer round-up. That will be the last rectifier in the collection.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





negura said:


> I am still waiting on the WE274B to complete my rectifer round-up. That will be the last rectifier in the collection.


 
   
  Ooooo spendy. Never heard that one. It had better not be the best.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1!   I am stuck on the 596...Still groovin to it!


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is Steve's e-mail about gear updates:
   
 [size=12.727272033691406px] 
 
 
  This is a note that I am sending out to everyone on our customer appreciation list...
At the end of this e-mail is important info about discounts and price increases.
I am still recovering from a back injury, so I'm not going to be able to get the web site updated as soon as I'd like.  This means a huge opportunity for savings on your end if you're contemplating getting more Decware gear.
We have been slowly transitioning our entire line of tube gear from white to black.  I have finally got all of the chassis done and in stock as I write this.  Besides switching to this exquisite black typewriter finish, we are also changing from aluminum to steel.  The steel adds four times the mass and many additional pounds to each amplifier.  It also costs more, but by lowing the resonant frequency of the chassis with this high mass steel, we get blacker backgrounds and a much harder chassis to bend during shipping mishaps.
Another thing I was able to do is create a separate chassis for every product, which allows me to further optimize and improve things.  In the past, our CSP2 preamp used the same chassis as our SE84ZS (Zen Select) and the Taboo amplifiers!  Now each has it's own, and the layouts have been vastly improved. An example of this can be seen in the pictures below where we see the Zen Select (Model SE84ZS) change into the new (SE84CKCS)  Besides meters and optional balanced inputs, things like the source switch have been moved to the front where it's far easier to access.  Speaker jacks have also been reconfigured to make using these amps in your favorite rack a more friendly experience.
   




 


 

 Old Zen Select (model SE84ZS still on the site today!)​  ​  ​  ​ 
 






 

 New Zen Select (model SE84CKCS getting ready to go on site soon!)​  ​  ​ 
 

 


 

 New Preamp (Model CSP3)​  ​  ​ 
 
 Here's a quick shot of our new CSP3 that I snapped with my phone.  It has too many improvements to list here, but as you can see it now has dual headphone jacks in the front, and all the trim controls an source selector switch have been moved to the front where it's far easier to use.  This also makes it possible to configure your preamp for XLR headphone cables, 3 or 4 pin, when you order.  Beeswax caps will now fit into the internal layout and will become an option for the first time ever on this wonderful preamp.   



 BEESWAX caps - Cryo treated HT Jupiter caps with silver leads are a buzz these days when referencing Decware gear and that is because we are transitioning our entire line of tube gear over to these incredible capacitors at the same time we change from the white to black models.  This will make it very easy to know if a Decware product came with Beeswax caps.... since most black models will come that way.



 The LIST so far - Price Increases
 
 *OK -  Here's how it works.   Whenever we come out with a new product, those people on our build sheet with standing orders are automatically upgraded to the new model at the old model price.*
    
I am obligated to charge what 's listed on the web site, so until I have time to update the site, you can buy these new more expensive models at the current prices.
   
We are now finishing the CSP3.  This new model will likely cost a few hundred bucks more.  You can order a CSP2+ from the site now, and lock yourself into the old price.  We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be.  Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds.
   
The TORII MK III is days away from becoming the TORII MK IV  and this is really big, because we've figured out how to make it sound even better if you can believe that!  The new amp will come standard with beeswax caps and there will be a significant price increase.  Get your TORII ordered now before I update the web site and save yourself a few hundred bucks minimum.

   
The Super Zen has been a great success, but became as good or better than the Zen Select, which was designed to be and upgraded version of the Regular Zen Triode.  So we have also updated that with meters, and many internal improvements so that it is indeed a step up from the SuperZen as it should be.  Again, if you want one, order the SE84ZS and you'll automatically be upgraded to the new model without the couple hundred dollar price increase!
   
*The main thing is to get your orders in as soon as possible before I get the site pages updated.  This will secure your position in the list and lock you in at the old price.  * I can answer questions about the changes and options by e-mail or phone once your order is placed.  We can easily tweak your order to achieve the configurations you want so no need to panic about options.  *I'll work with each one of you individually.*
   
   
   
   



 - Steve Deckert

Decware / High Fidelity Engineering Co.
75 S. Riverview Dr. East Peoria IL 61611
Website: www.decware.com
Blog: zenamps.wordpress.com
Phone: (309) 822 5255



 

 
 
[/size] [size=10px !important]
 75 S Riverview Dr., East Peoria, IL 61611, USA 

[/size]


----------



## Kendoji

Yep, I'd be tempted to get in on that, but sadly my transformer hum issue has put a bit of a damper on my Decware honeymoon. If I can get it sorted I might continue with my grand scheme of getting the pre-amp and phono stage too.


----------



## OPR8R

I wouldn't mind getting back on the list for a TORII MK IV. I think I'll show restraint this time though.


----------



## thegrobe

kendoji said:


> Yep, I'd be tempted to get in on that, but sadly my transformer hum issue has put a bit of a damper on my Decware honeymoon. If I can get it sorted I might continue with my grand scheme of getting the pre-amp and phono stage too.




Despite having the same concerns, I finalized my order today for the CSP3+. I find that I love the sound of the Taboo enough that it's worth going full-on although I'm still unsure if the hum is normal.

I've noticed the hum that I'm getting varies. Sometimes it is noticeable during quiet passages, occasionally it is almost gone, but usually it's somewhere in the middle. Because it varies, I am hoping it's a power condition issue. That conditioner I ordered should arrive today so I'll post if it helps.

Worst case is that it goes back for a checkup. I know that's worse for you Kendoji, shipping from overseas and all. 

I still haven't heard any "quiet" Taboo owners respond about what happens when you plug a low impedance or sensitive IEM/CIEM into the Taboo. This seems like a good test.

I realize it may not be an ideal amp to use with IEM's, but every other desktop amp I've tried...you can use an IEM. Not much volume range, a little bit of background noise, but useable. I plug an IEM into this amp and get LOUD background hum. Unusable. 

Anyway the troubleshoot continues, but I have the CSP3+ ordered up regardless.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I still haven't heard any "quiet" Taboo owners respond about what happens when you plug a low impedance or sensitive IEM/CIEM into the Taboo. This seems like a good test.
> 
> I realize it may not be an ideal amp to use with IEM's, but every other desktop amp I've tried...you can use an IEM. Not much volume range, a little bit of background noise, but useable. I plug an IEM into this amp and get LOUD background hum. Unusable.
> 
> Anyway the troubleshoot continues, but I have the CSP3+ ordered up regardless.


 
  Really tempted by the CSP3+...
   
  I originally put this on the HD800 thread when the question came up (Klipsch X10 is 50ohms and 100dB):
  As for the IEM, I hear a hum with my Klipsch X10s that would become annoying, can still hear it in the background even with the volume turned up.  Also can hear the tubes ring when I bumped into the table accidentally.  It is quiet with other phones (HD800, HE500).


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





rizlaw said:


> Since everyone has been speculating on the new CSP3 on this thread I thought this would be the best place to give you guys the first look at CSP3 Serial No. 001. Arrived via UPS about an hour ago. Sorry for the poor photos taken with an old Motorola cellphone.  The CSP3 in photos has all of the options Steve currently offers. Notice the new headphone jacks. You can order it with dual phono's or dual XLRs, but not a mix of each (which is what I originally ordered). Before he shipped my CSP3 out he called to tell me that he decided against offering a mix of phono/xlr jacks.


 
  So, to clarify.....Steve wouldn't let you have both a 4 pin balanced head phone jack and a single ended jack?  That's what I was going to ask for.  In addition to the Bees Wax Caps....of course.


----------



## Rizlaw

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> . . . .
> 
> I still haven't heard any "quiet" Taboo owners respond about what happens when you plug a low impedance or sensitive IEM/CIEM into the Taboo. This seems like a good test.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't use IEMs, but I do have and use, from time to time, Beyerdynamic DT-1350 which are 80ohms/109db sensitivity (they also have the newer Tesla drivers). When plugged into my new CSP3 they are dead quiet, no hum at all. I can't turn the stepped attenuator on the CSP3 more than 4 or 5 clicks from 0 (it tops out at 20 clicks max) without hurting my hearing. The CSP3 outputs are set to factory default (4 clicks up from 0). The same applies to my Taboo III (fed by CSP3) as far as hum is concerned with the output set a full (20 clicks) open and input levels at max as well. Dead quiet.  I hope that gives you some feedback.
   
  I find the CSP3 works much, much better with the DT1350s than the Taboo III; it has a more dynamic and 3D sound. On the Taboo III, the DT-1350s sound flat and lifeless. The LCD-2 is the polar opposite, great on the Taboo III, not so much on the CSP3.
   
  I imagine IEMs will be different because they couple to your ears differently and they usually have lower impedences than most full sized headphones making it tough on tube gear. I believe the CSP3 being an OTL design generally works best with dynamic high impedence headphones 250 ohms or better; although, my DT1350s sound great and have a much lower impedence.


----------



## Rizlaw

Jazzgas,
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Jazzgas,
> 
> So, to clarify.....Steve wouldn't let you have both a 4 pin balanced head phone jack and a single ended jack?  That's what I was going to ask for.  In addition to the Bees Wax Caps....of course.


 
   
  Yes, you have it right. But, I sensed that if I pushed and begged a little more he might have relented. So, by all means, you can ask him for the "mix" and see if he changes his mind. He's not an unreasonable fellow and really wants, and goes out of way, to please all of his customers. BTW, IMO, the Jupiter caps are an absolute must have addition to the CSP3.


----------



## longbowbbs

Regarding CIEM's and hum. I do not have an adapter for my CIEM's to try. I do not hear hum with my HD650's or HD800's....


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





rizlaw said:


> Jazzgas,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm glad to hear that.  I don't feel like such a boob for asking him to add the Jupiter caps after he'd already finished it.


----------



## thegrobe

Steve told me the two headphone outputs could be both xlr or both 1/4. The reason, he said, is that it just looks funny and off-kilter with them mixed. So he is offering either or.

....but..I get the feeling that if you really wanted them mixed he would do it. Form following function, and such. Mine is on for xlr but I may still ask for mixed.

On another note, my power conditioner thing came and wouldn't you know it...it arrived damaged. There's some bolts and washers and a couple stand-off posts broken off and rolling around inside. So I got to open it up and see what's what. Maybe return it. Ugh...Thanks to all for the comments on hum and thanks for putting up with all my posts regarding..


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Steve told me the two headphone outputs could be both xlr or both 1/4. The reason, he said, is that it just looks funny and off-kilter with them mixed. So he is offering either or.
> 
> ....but..I get the feeling that if you really wanted them mixed he would do it. Form following function, and such. Mine is on for xlr but I may still ask for mixed.
> 
> On another note, my power conditioner thing came and wouldn't you know it...it arrived damaged. There's some bolts and washers and a couple stand-off posts broken off and rolling around inside. So I got to open it up and see what's what. Maybe return it. Ugh...Thanks to all for the comments on hum and thanks for putting up with all my posts regarding..


 

 Ugh.  I hate it when stuff comes damaged.  At least it's not something large.


----------



## Kendoji

thegrobe said:


> Steve told me the two headphone outputs could be both xlr or both 1/4. The reason, he said, is that it just looks funny and off-kilter with them mixed. So he is offering either or.
> 
> ....but..I get the feeling that if you really wanted them mixed he would do it. Form following function, and such. Mine is on for xlr but I may still ask for mixed.
> 
> On another note, my power conditioner thing came and wouldn't you know it...it arrived damaged. There's some bolts and washers and a couple stand-off posts broken off and rolling around inside. So I got to open it up and see what's what. Maybe return it. Ugh...Thanks to all for the comments on hum and thanks for putting up with all my posts regarding..


 

Oh that's a shame! Does it still work, so you can test if it fixes the hum issue before you send it back?

And about your earlier post, I also think my transformer hum varies in severity at different times of day, though I can't be sure I'm not imagining it. Think I need to send another note to Decware as I didn't get a response to my email last week.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> So, to clarify.....Steve wouldn't let you have both a 4 pin balanced head phone jack and a single ended jack?  That's what I was going to ask for.  In addition to the Bees Wax Caps....of course.


 
  Hey jazzgas does that CSP3+ have 1 rca and input and 2 rca output?
   
  Edit:
  Nevermind Decware site has it listed as 2 inputs and 1 output


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Hey jazzgas does that CSP3+ have 1 rca and input and 2 rca output?
> 
> Edit:
> Nevermind Decware site has it listed as 2 inputs and 1 output


 
  My understanding is that the CSP comes standard with two RCA source input pairs and one stereo output pair and one mono output.  An option for $100 is two stereo outputs and no mono output.  I would suggest going to Decware.com and reading about the CSP 2....the CSP 3 write up hasn't been posted yet.  Also if you click on the "add to cart" link you can see the available options and their cost.  From reading here and a letter from Steve a couple days ago, another unlisted option is two XLR headphone jacks in place of the standard single ended jacks....don't know the cost.  Hope this helps....Mark.


----------



## Kendoji

So I just went ahead and ordered that AG500 power regenerator that Negura recommended. No idea if it will reduce the hum issues, but I guess it's worth a shot. 

Another question - I was reading Steve's explanation of what old lucid mode is, and he described it as 'almost like mono' with a clearer center-image. My experience of it isn't like that at all. I find the center-image much stronger when old lucid mode is off. Turning it on seems to expand the soundstage, and if anything, make it 'more stereo'. Is it just me?

Also, received a new rectifier the other day - an RCA 5Y3GT, as recommended in this thread. There's a seller on eBay who has a bunch that are tested to '95%', and are cheap. He even threw in a second one in my package for free.


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> My understanding is that the CSP comes standard with two RCA source input pairs and one stereo output pair and one mono output.  An option for $100 is two stereo outputs and no mono output.  I would suggest going to Decware.com and reading about the CSP 2....the CSP 3 write up hasn't been posted yet.  Also if you click on the "add to cart" link you can see the available options and their cost.  From reading here and a letter from Steve a couple days ago, another unlisted option is two XLR headphone jacks in place of the standard single ended jacks....don't know the cost.  Hope this helps....Mark.


 
  Thanks Mark, two outputs is exactly what I need.
  This really puts the pressure on me to order one of these before the site is updated...my wife is gonna kill me


----------



## longbowbbs

Remember that old lucid mode was developed for speakers not headphones. It is new lucid that really had the Audeze's in mind.


----------



## negura

Is your headphones plug single ended? If so the old lucid mode is not exactly as described.


----------



## mwindham08

Are any of you all actually using the Lucid modes? 
   
  The Taboo sounds so good playing regular stereo I never use them.


----------



## negura

No never. I would prefer they were removed for a cleaner path and the Taboo balanced only.


----------



## Kendoji

negura said:


> Is your headphones plug single ended? If so the old lucid mode is not exactly as described.


 
   
I only have a balanced cable for my HD 800 so that's the only headphone I've been able to compare with.  It just seems puzzling to me that the effect is the opposite to me of the way Steve described it, regardless of whether it was originally designed for speakers.
   
  So far I don't see myself using either lucid mode much.  I prefer old lucid mode off and new lucid mode is too bizarre to be enjoyable.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Are any of you all actually using the Lucid modes?
> 
> The Taboo sounds so good playing regular stereo I never use them.


 
  I use original lucid mode most of the time. I am probably 50/50 HP vs. speakers. New Lucid is too wide a soundstage for me. Particularly with the HD800's.


----------



## OPR8R

I've pretty much stopped using either Lucid Mode (never liked the new mode).  I noticed after a few days I'd forgotten to switch the old mode back on after doing some testing.  I didn't miss it so I've left it off.  You need the old mode if you are using a single ended cable though.
   
  I've thought about, at some point, sending my Taboo in to have the New Lucid switch turned into a speaker cutoff, if that's possible.
   
  Another week has gone by and my CSP3+ is still not here.  It appears there's a problem with stock on the walnut wood bases.  Unfortunately both my CSP3+ and ZP3 are in walnut


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I've pretty much stopped using either Lucid Mode (never liked the new mode).  I noticed after a few days I'd forgotten to switch the old mode back on after doing some testing.  I didn't miss it so I've left it off.  You need the old mode if you are using a single ended cable though.
> 
> I've thought about, at some point, sending my Taboo in to have the New Lucid switch turned into a speaker cutoff, if that's possible.
> 
> Another week has gone by and my CSP3+ is still not here.  It appears there's a problem with stock on the walnut wood bases.  Unfortunately both my CSP3+ and ZP3 are in walnut


 
  There's an easy remedy to your problem.....just call and request a change to the black figured base that is preferred by those here with refined taste....hehe


----------



## WNBC

I suppose I have the opposite opinion here about lucid mode.  Without old lucid mode the amp loses a lot of the soundstage presentation that I enjoy about the Taboo lineup.  Without the lucid mode I don't think I'd be as big a fan.  Call me crazy.  It may also depend on headphones.  Headphones I've used on the Taboo MKII, MKIII have been HE-500, TH-600, T50RP, Grado 225i.  DACs have been the W4S DAC-2 and JKenny Ciunas.  I imagine you guys with the HD800s, LCD-3, etc. may not need lucid mode like the rest of us.  Additionally, a user with a preamp + Taboo may not require initiation of lucid mode as much as non-preamp users.  Influence of DACs on soundstage?       
   
  How many users owners turn off old lucid mode?  If you do, which headphones are you using?


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I suppose I have the opposite opinion here about lucid mode.  Without old lucid mode the amp loses a lot of the soundstage presentation that I enjoy about the Taboo lineup.  Without the lucid mode I don't think I'd be as big a fan.  Call me crazy.  It may also depend on headphones.  Headphones I've used on the Taboo MKII, MKIII have been HE-500, TH-600, T50RP, Grado 225i.  DACs have been the W4S DAC-2 and JKenny Ciunas.  I imagine you guys with the HD800s, LCD-3, etc. may not need lucid mode like the rest of us.  Additionally, a user with a preamp + Taboo may not require initiation of lucid mode as much as non-preamp users.  Influence of DACs on soundstage?
> 
> How many users owners turn off old lucid mode?  If you do, which headphones are you using?


 

 It's really more a question of headphone cable.  I don't think the Taboo really works right without Lucid mode unless you have a balanced cable.
   
  Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> There's an easy remedy to your problem.....just call and request a change to the black figured base that is preferred by those here with refined taste....hehe


 
   
  Ha!  Tempting, but I've already got a walnut theme going.


----------



## jazzgas

I have a question for all of you here.  I am only recently getting back into High Fidelity after a 10 to 15 year hiatus.  I have recently purchased the wonderful Taboo MK III and Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  A Decware pre amp and  ZU Audio speakers have been ordered.  I don't want to get into computer music....I have thousands of CDs and LPs and have no desire to transfer them or to begin buying downloaded music.  I am currently using a Harmon Kardon  CD Recorder I bought in the early nineties for Red Book playback....I want to upgrade it but don't know what to get.  I read about the PS Audio Transport and DAC combo but think I'd rather just buy a simple player....ie no software, etc.....just put a CD in, press a button and enjoy the Music.  Any recommendations? Or thoughts?  Thanks, Mark.   PS...I mainly listen to small group and Big Band Jazz 80%.....the rest....Rock, Blues, Classical.


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> It's really more a question of headphone cable.  I don't think the Taboo really works right without Lucid mode unless you have a balanced cable.
> 
> 
> Ha!  Tempting, but I've already got a walnut theme going.


 
  You can easily change out the Walnut base on your Taboo with the "beautiful" Black figured base.....Steve would probably throw one in for free for your extra wait.....just saying....hehe


----------



## WNBC

Mr Speakers Alpha Dog ordered.  Will be my first balanced headphone.  
   
  Quote: 





opr8r said:


> It's really more a question of headphone cable.  I don't think the Taboo really works right without Lucid mode unless you have a balanced cable.
> 
> Ha!  Tempting, but I've already got a walnut theme going.


 
   
  I had the Oppo BDP-105 at one point.  Lets you go between a USB DAC and a standalone CD player depending on what you want.  Always nice to know the USB option is there for you when you want to try it.  
   
  Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> I have a question for all of you here.  I am only recently getting back into High Fidelity after a 10 to 15 year hiatus.  I have recently purchased the wonderful Taboo MK III and Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  A Decware pre amp and  ZU Audio speakers have been ordered.  I don't want to get into computer music....I have thousands of CDs and LPs and have no desire to transfer them or to begin buying downloaded music.  I am currently using a Harmon Kardon  CD Recorder I bought in the early nineties for Red Book playback....I want to upgrade it but don't know what to get.  I read about the PS Audio Transport and DAC combo but think I'd rather just buy a simple player....ie no software, etc.....just put a CD in, press a button and enjoy the Music.  Any recommendations? Or thoughts?  Thanks, Mark.   PS...I mainly listen to small group and Big Band Jazz 80%.....the rest....Rock, Blues, Classical.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Mr Speakers Alpha Dog ordered.  Will be my first balanced headphone.


 
   
  I heard the Alpha Dogs at CAS4 and liked them a lot.  I can't imagine they won't sound really, really good with the Taboo.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I heard the Alpha Dogs at CAS4 and liked them a lot.  I can't imagine they won't sound really, really good with the Taboo.


 
   
  Yeah for the money they're very fun and I would prefer them to many other HPs at that budget.
   
  On a side subject I am impressed how good the Taboo rig sounds with Stax. Very difficult going to sleep. I was going to order an electrostatic amplifier, but I am seriously considering not to, or delay it at the moment.
   
  I've made a few modifications in the last few days: testing a new USB interface to my DAC - PUC2 Lite fed through the IFI Gemini USB cable which is powered by a linear regulated USB power supply connected to my regen. And finally the Philips/Miniwatt EL84s output tubes. All this together helped the system scale a lot and I am extremely pleased how transparent the Taboo is to all these changes.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Oh that's a shame! Does it still work, so you can test if it fixes the hum issue before you send it back?
> 
> And about your earlier post, I also think my transformer hum varies in severity at different times of day, though I can't be sure I'm not imagining it. Think I need to send another note to Decware as I didn't get a response to my email last week.


 
   
  I emailed the vendor pictures of the damage inside and he said it looks like I could fix it to try it out it by bolting down and reconnecting a this-n-that inside. No, those are not the exact technical terms. So anyway I should be able to give it a try tonight. 
   
  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Are any of you all actually using the Lucid modes?
> 
> The Taboo sounds so good playing regular stereo I never use them.


 
   
  Here's my thought on the lucid modes. Most of the time, I keep them both off, and am perfectly happy with the sound. I'm thankful that I'm using balanced cables, because using the SE outputs you must have old lucid on. I don't mind the sound with old lucid on, but generally prefer it off. Also for the occasional binaural recording...well, I have been told by a recording engineer that crossfeed is "kryptonite" to binaural recordings. So that's something to keep in mind with either lucid mode. 
   
  I haven't actually been able to try the Taboo yet with speakers, but when I do - I will like to try old lucid as it was designed for speakers. Good to have a switch. 
   
  Now the new lucid mode- yes it is at times bizarre, and for most recordings I leave it off too. However, with certain recordings I have found I really like it. It is usually stuff that is very well recorded in the first place, and small scale stuff, just a couple instruments and a couple vocals, stuff like that. It can add a nice spaciousness to the performance, and move things around so it gives you a new window into the performance. Even other recordings where the overall performance sounds "off" it's sometimes a fun tool to look at the recording from another direction. For example, you may very clearly hear exactly what a rhythm guitarist is doing, where it is usually buried in the mix. So I like it. Not for everything but I really like having it.


----------



## bearFNF

I prefer old lucid mode on, using HD800 and HE500 balanced cable.  New Lucid mode only rarely when I feel adventurous.
   
  For CD's I have a OPPO 103, Like the USB  option, didn't need the 105, I use my Bifrost as DAC.


----------



## Charnwood

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> So I just went ahead and ordered that AG500 power regenerator that Negura recommended. No idea if it will reduce the hum issues, but I guess it's worth a shot.


 
  Give the AG500 a little time to settle in. I found it made things sound a little lean for the first few days.


----------



## negura

Interesting. I have not noticed any particular changes with burn-in for the AG500. However I did find the power chords between the AG500 and the devices have a significant impact as usual with power chords. I could not hear any diference with the cable used between the mains and the AG500 though.
   
  How are you finding the AG500 overall?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> I have a question for all of you here.  I am only recently getting back into High Fidelity after a 10 to 15 year hiatus.  I have recently purchased the wonderful Taboo MK III and Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  A Decware pre amp and  ZU Audio speakers have been ordered.  I don't want to get into computer music....I have thousands of CDs and LPs and have no desire to transfer them or to begin buying downloaded music.  I am currently using a Harmon Kardon  CD Recorder I bought in the early nineties for Red Book playback....I want to upgrade it but don't know what to get.  I read about the PS Audio Transport and DAC combo but think I'd rather just buy a simple player....ie no software, etc.....just put a CD in, press a button and enjoy the Music.  Any recommendations? Or thoughts?  Thanks, Mark.   PS...I mainly listen to small group and Big Band Jazz 80%.....the rest....Rock, Blues, Classical.


 
  I would pick up a used Denon 3910, 5900 or 5910. They were top shelf redbook machines, but since they are used you can get them for $250-$500. They were $2000+ when new. Great devices and built like tanks.


----------



## Llloyd

Well I never thought I would be saying this but my time with the Taboo mk2 has come to an end. I never really expected that to happen. I moved and there is really no room at all in my current place, and no real way that I can use my speakers either. I'm instead picking up a Bakoon Products HDA-5210mk3 which fits a little better into my tiny desk area.  I'll be listing my taboo up within the next month or so, but I need to send it in for repairs first.  If anyone is interested feel free to shoot me a pm with any questions. I will still list the item even if we work something out just for safety/protocol reasons. I could possibly have them send it straight to you after repair.
   
  TY


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I would pick up a used Denon 3910, 5900 or 5910. They were top shelf redbook machines, but since they are used you can get them for $250-$500. They were $2000+ when new. Great devices and built like tanks.


 
  Thanks, I'll do some research and be on the look out for one in good condition.  Looks like a low risk way to start my search.  Do you have any experience with using a Zen Tube Gain Stage or Buffer in front of a CD player?  Also, I know you follow Decware here and on their site....I recently saw a post from Steve showing the internal layout of the Torii  mk III and the New Torii MK IV but I can't remember where I saw it....can't find it this morning.  I'm very close to ordering one with the improvements and about $500 price increase soon to come....any thoughts? Thanks, Mark.


----------



## longbowbbs

The Torii is fantastic. I wish I could hear it along side the SLI-80 since they are in the same basic price range. I have never heard the Zen Tube stage. I have always been pleased with the Denon players. I have both the 3910 and 5900. The 5910 is the top of the line but they are harder to find used. Audiogon and ebay usually have a couple up for sale. There is a 3910 on Audiogon right now but the price is wrong. Top for a 3910 or 5900 should be $400 or so and $500-$600 for a 5910.
   
  Nice Denon DVD-3910 find on Audiogon.com
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-plays-cd-sacd-dvd-a-w-remote-was-1500-2013-08-19-digital-91732-el-monte-ca


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The Torii is fantastic. I wish I could hear it along side the SLI-80 since they are in the same basic price range. I have never heard the Zen Tube stage. I have always been pleased with the Denon players. I have both the 3910 and 5900. The 5910 is the top of the line but they are harder to find used. Audiogon and ebay usually have a couple up for sale. There is a 3910 on Audiogon right now but the price is wrong. Top for a 3910 or 5900 should be $400 or so and $500-$600 for a 5910.
> 
> Nice Denon DVD-3910 find on Audiogon.com
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-plays-cd-sacd-dvd-a-w-remote-was-1500-2013-08-19-digital-91732-el-monte-ca


 
  What do you mean "the price is wrong".....$280 plus shipping seems pretty cheap to me!


----------



## Charnwood

Quote: 





negura said:


> Interesting. I have not noticed any particular changes with burn-in for the AG500. However I did find the power chords between the AG500 and the devices have a significant impact as usual with power chords. I could not hear any diference with the cable used between the mains and the AG500 though.
> 
> How are you finding the AG500 overall?


 
  Overall I find the AG500 just makes things clearer and easier to listen to. There's an improvement even when my Chord QX DAC's powered from the MCRU linear power supply.
  Somewhat to my surprise I also find the AG500 helps make sibilance less obvious.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzgas said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ooppss. there was another one for $1500...Crazy that. The $280 is perfect.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> Overall I find the AG500 just makes things clearer and easier to listen to. There's an improvement even when my Chord QX DAC's powered from the MCRU linear power supply.
> Somewhat to my surprise I also find the AG500 helps make sibilance less obvious.


 
   
  I also came to find my mains voltage is all over the place, fluctuating in the course of a few days anywhere between 240-256V.
  All my devices sound improved with the use of the regen, including the Taboo.


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Ooppss. there was another one for $1500...Crazy that. The $280 is perfect.


 
  Longbowbbs,  Just to let you know....yesterday I bought a used Jolida 100A  Tube CD Player for $535 shipped.  After reading several reviews, it seemed this might be what I was looking for.  If I find it is, I am thinking I'll buy a new one for a second system since it appears that Jolida has discontinued this model without announcing a replacement.  
  It will probably come with the stock tubes... two Chinese 12AX7...if anyone can recommend an upgrade to use, I'm all ears.   Mark.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice get for the price Mark! Let us know what you think of it. I would enjoy it for a bit with stock tubes then see what some rolling will do.


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





negura said:


> I also came to find my mains voltage is all over the place, fluctuating in the course of a few days anywhere between 240-256V.
> All my devices sound improved with the use of the regen, including the Taboo.


 
  Negrura,  please help this technically ignorant soul.....how do you measure mains voltage?  A few months ago I bought a digital multi-meter to measure  the DC Offset Voltage of an Amp, after much reading.  I found the speaker terminals of my "Newly Repaired" SS Amp were respectively 3+ and 5+ volts.  Unfortunately I found this out after it had fried my beloved ESS AMT speakers.  I returned the Amp with a letter to pick up and repair my speakers.....I haven't heard from them in over two months....I'll eventually get around to pressing them....I'm just too busy enjoying my Taboo and ordering more equipment.  I started fresh. Mark.


----------



## negura

With the regen I do not need to measure it, as it has a Lcd showing this info. With the multimeter I have a common setting for dc/ac so I just press the selection button to switch to AC with the measuring posts into live and neutral. Your multimeter may be very different, so hopefully you have some instructions.


----------



## jazzgas

Quote: 





negura said:


> With the regen I do not need to measure it, as it has a Lcd showing this info. With the multimeter I have a common setting for dc/ac so I just press the selection button to switch to AC with the measuring posts into live and neutral. Your multimeter may be very different, so hopefully you have some instructions.


 
  Thanks, I'll have to look it up....I'm a little  hesitant to stick things into my power outlet.  Your discussion here has me looking at the PS Audio Perfectwave power plant P5.  If fact, if I win the lottery, I'd buy trio of this and their Perfect Wave DAC and Transport....until then I'll make due with lesser stuff.  Mark.


----------



## OPR8R

I'm curious.  For those of you who have had the USAF-596 and Philips 5R4GYS rectifiers, can you comment of the differences?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread/780#post_9569043


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread/780#post_9569043


 

 Thanks, Nick.  I have this bookmarked already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Since you posted this, I think there have been others who have tried both and I was curious to see what they think also.  I'm actually quite pleased with the way the 5R4GYS sounds in combination with the other tubes I use.  I think I saw some have tried the Philips but gone back to the 596?  Or not?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

The Philips 5R4GYS is popular around here, but the lack of bass with the HD800 was noticeably greater than with any other tube. Couldn't make it work. Oh well. I might have gotten one that didn't measure up to the rest... who knows.
   
  I believe most people would prefer the 596 to the 5R4GYS in the Taboo/CSP. Of course, I'm only saying that because I did.


----------



## Llloyd

Just curious if there is a distortion or THD+N measurement of the taboo somewhere. I can't seem to find one. The distortion is very low from what I've been able to tell, but numbers are always nice for reference.


----------



## Argo Duck

I've never seen any THD+N figures.

Discussions with Chris J (he's a power engineer and knows just a bit about amplifier design) certainly suggest it is low, or more correctly low where it counts: in the higher harmonics and in the inter-modulation (IMD) area too. He looked at the Taboo schematic soon after i bought mine and we discussed a lot about the lack of obvious coloration and considerable extra low-level information I could hear. We talked about what makes tube amps good when - i guess - they shouldnt be.

His final comment was the Taboo seems to have a simple, well-executed and over-spec'd design that means when driving an LCD 2/3 it is literally just idling, with consequent advantages in terms of low distortion and noise.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I've never seen any THD+N figures.
> 
> Discussions with Chris J (he's a power engineer and knows just a bit about amplifier design) certainly suggest it is low, or more correctly low where it counts: in the higher harmonics and in the inter-modulation (IMD) area too. He looked at the Taboo schematic soon after i bought mine and we discussed a lot about the lack of obvious coloration and considerable extra low-level information I could hear. We talked about what makes tube amps good when - i guess - they shouldnt be.
> 
> His final comment was the Taboo seems to have a simple, well-executed and over-spec'd design that means when driving an LCD 2/3 it is literally just idling, with consequent advantages in terms of low distortion and noise.


 
   
  Ah, thanks for the info!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I'm curious.  For those of you who have had the USAF-596 and Philips 5R4GYS rectifiers, can you comment of the differences?


 
  I am getting a more slamming bass from the 596. The 5R4GYS is more refined across the board. Lately, I am loving the slam!


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am getting a more slamming bass from the 596. The 5R4GYS is more refined across the board. Lately, I am loving the slam!


 

 I wonder if I'd "love the slam" enough to give up the Philips.  I guess I don't have to worry.  It's not like there are a ton of these on sale at Costco.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  "Help required in the USAF-596 aisle.....)


----------



## thegrobe

The last couple nights I have been realizing just how special this amplifier is. In addition to my usual DAC feeding the Taboo, I tried feeding the other input with my iPod touch 5G, lossless files, with just a cheapie Radio Shack grade mini to RCA connector, right out of the headphone jack. (it has the lightning connector, so there is no true line out, however the 5G touch has a very clean headphone out, it actually works very well this way)
   
  I was REALLY surprised to find the Taboo/LCD-3 sounded so good just being fed off the iPod. I have tried this before with my other amps and it has always been a little "blah". But the Taboo just adds some magic and spaciousness and you would think you were listening to a much higher grade source. Of course, if you A/B with my desktop DAC and DH Labs cables, there is a bit of a difference. The last 5% diminishing returns kind. I'm not going to go getting rid of my DAC or anything, but I was really satisfied with the sound. 
   
  I can't wait to hear the CSP3 in the chain. If the only drawback is a slight loss of transparency, that's okay. I find a lot of my recordings are showing their true nature with the Taboo. If it's a great recording, it sounds awesome. But if it's poorly produced, etc., it is shown as such due to the high level of transparency. A little loss of that to make the entire music collection a bit more even is okay with me. 
   
  On another note- the DC blocking power conditioner I tried did not reduce the background hum I'm hearing. I'm not going to continue stinking up this thread with this stuff. If I find a verifiable problem and there's something to report I'll post it. The folks at Decware are helpful so that's what matters. Not a deal-breaker. I wouldn't be going forward with adding more Decware gear to my setup if it was.
   
  Oh, and if anyone has a lead on where to get one of the 596 rectifiers...


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> The last couple nights I have been realizing just how special this amplifier is. In addition to my usual DAC feeding the Taboo, I tried feeding the other input with my iPod touch 5G, lossless files, with just a cheapie Radio Shack grade mini to RCA connector, right out of the headphone jack. (it has the lightning connector, so there is no true line out, however the 5G touch has a very clean headphone out, it actually works very well this way)
> 
> I was REALLY surprised to find the Taboo/LCD-3 sounded so good just being fed off the iPod. I have tried this before with my other amps and it has always been a little "blah". But the Taboo just adds some magic and spaciousness and you would think you were listening to a much higher grade source. Of course, if you A/B with my desktop DAC and DH Labs cables, there is a bit of a difference. The last 5% diminishing returns kind. I'm not going to go getting rid of my DAC or anything, but I was really satisfied with the sound.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad you're enjoying your Taboo as much as I (we are) am.  I spend much more time looking for quality recordings than I used to, but it's worth it on the Taboo.  Not just high sample rates, but like you said, high production quality as well.
   
  I'm giving up on diagnosing any hum until I move (possibly soonish).  Last night I could hear a hum in my living room.  I've had to have the outlet my Taboo is plugged into replaced once before.
   
  I keep checking Ebay for 596 tubes.  When they show up they go fast, and they're not cheap.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> I keep checking Ebay for 596 tubes.  When they show up they go fast, and they're not cheap.


 
  +1...You have to jump quick on those bad boys.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1...You have to jump quick on those bad boys.


 
   
  If I sell the Taboo in about 6 months I may have one or two of those to sell. One NOS I will keep. 
   
  The Sylvania 274B arrived today and is playing in the rig. It's not the WE, but a milspec Sylvania. Dated 01 - 1943. I just realized this tube is actually from the 2nd world war times. It seems to be within perfect NOS condition aestetically and functionally.
   
  I will give it a good burn-in before commenting, but so far it's looking good.  We'll see how it all pans out in a few days.


----------



## funch

Are you taking dibs on the 596's?


----------



## negura

Not decided to sell yet, but if I do I will leave a msg here. I am enjoying the Taboo a lot with electrostats and speakers at the moment. Funny as that is, as it wasn't the main reasons I bought it.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





negura said:


> Not decided to sell yet, but if I do I will leave a msg here. I am enjoying the Taboo a lot with electrostats and speakers at the moment. Funny as that is, as it wasn't the main reasons I bought it.


 
  Negura,
   
  How is the electrostats with the Taboo
  I friend of mine is getting one of the stax--think its the 007,and is having a amp custom built
  Very serious  dollars.
   
  Is it ok ,if I have him PM you?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Negura,
> 
> How is the electrostats with the Taboo
> I friend of mine is getting one of the stax--think its the 007,and is having a amp custom built
> ...


 
   
  Sure np. However I can't comment on any comparison with proper high-end electrostatic amplifiers. I am on the sidelines at the moment trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on one of the end game electrostatic amplifiers. The Taboo hasn't made that any easier for me. In fact knowing there's a Tor II MKIV and a Mystery amp out there makes things more complicated.  The SR007s are my favorite headphones out of the bunch at the moment both subjectively and objectively with the Taboo and Woo Wee. Compared to the LCD-3s and HD800s. With the latter two I always felt something's is missing with one of them, that the other one was giving me. And not only with the Taboo. I am not feeling that with the SR007s.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Fortunately, I have 2 backup 596's to go with the pair I am using now....Whew.....


----------



## OPR8R

It seems the walnut base backup has cleared.  My ZP3 and CSP3 have shipped.  Excitement is building.


----------



## koiloco

Quote: 





opr8r said:


> It seems the walnut base backup has cleared.  My ZP3 and CSP3 have shipped.  Excitement is building.


 
  My taboo is in shipping too.  Can't wait either.


----------



## OPR8R

Quote: 





koiloco said:


> My taboo is in shipping too.  Can't wait either.


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats everyone. Can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## Kendoji

I take back what I said about the lucid modes recently, as I'm discovering some albums that really benefit from new lucid mode.  It generally doesn't work with busy music, but some folky stuff with a limited number of instruments can sound great with it on.  Right now I'm listening to the recent Calexico album and new lucid mode gives it a very pleasant forward presentation on the HD800s.  Doesn't sound 'weird' like it does on some albums.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I take back what I said about the lucid modes recently, as I'm discovering some albums that really benefit from new lucid mode.  It generally doesn't work with busy music, but some folky stuff with a limited number of instruments can sound great with it on.  Right now I'm listening to the recent Calexico album and new lucid mode gives it a very pleasant forward presentation on the HD800s.  Doesn't sound 'weird' like it does on some albums.


 
  When I was at Decware Steve and talked about Lucid mode. He said it really shined best with more intimate performances.


----------



## thegrobe

longbowbbs said:


> When I was at Decware Steve and talked about Lucid mode. He said it really shined best with more intimate performances.




Exactly what I've found- and it works very very well for such recordings. The thing that's nice about it is it sounds very natural and real. Not a cheap "digital processing" type of feel. Then the flipside is recordings it does not work well with- then it just sounds plain crazy. 

I can't believe that effect is possible with the relatively small amount of parts inside the amplifier. Pretty amazing.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1. Was listening to my Taboo II quietly with speakers yesterday. Normal lucid of course. Amazing how it separates and localizes instruments and performers compared to stereo mode with - yes - smaller ensembles.


----------



## WNBC

Taboo goes big.  Never really knew the efficiency of my vintage Pioneer CS-99 because the SX-1010 powered them with ease.  Turns out they are around 98 dB/watt.  Pretty efficient.  Hooked up the Taboo and viola.  Taboo drives them well and not much to complain about.  Plenty of detail and transparency coming through.  Excellent for low level listening as well.  Definitely not high end speakers but not low end either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Good color match too.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yes good color and style match. It all looks sort of understated vintage - until you get to the Ciunas DAC!


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice system WNBC!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks,  always fun when you can use existing equipment for new purposes.  Maybe I'll find a wood enclosure for the Ciunas to make it look more retro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  CS-99 will do until I can manage to get another pair of Blumenstein's but this time in maple.  
   
  Curious to see what their ultra-fi lineup will be....
  http://blumenstein-ultra-fi.com
   
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ Yes good color and style match. It all looks sort of understated vintage - until you get to the Ciunas DAC!


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice system WNBC!


----------



## longbowbbs

I would love to hear the Blumenstein's. I am curious to hear what those small drivers can do.


----------



## WNBC

If you ever make a trip out to the Pacific NW they're open to having you hear their speakers with no pressure to buy.  They are built out of a shop in West Seattle.  I was hooked when I heard them in person and bought a pair on the spot.  Wish I had kept my pair but I went the full portable route for a period of time.  They were in natural bamboo.  I would want maple now anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.    
   
  I was happy without a sub but some might want a little more punch at the low end.  No problems for my main listening genre of jazz.  They make a sub as well.  Blumensteins have wonderful timbre and imaging.  Their natural tone floored the buyer of my Blumensteins.  Guy was in awe and he had some electrostatic speakers.  They will reveal as much detail your amp can put out.  It's basically a headphone experience without headphones.  Really intimate.  Easy to get lost with those speakers.  
   
  End of the line for me:  CSP3 + Alpha Dogs + Blumenstein speakers.  Occasional tube stocking stuffer too. 
   
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I would love to hear the Blumenstein's. I am curious to hear what those small drivers can do.


----------



## longbowbbs

You're going to have a nice end game system there. I don't know when I would be in Seattle, but it would be a fun trip to visit their store/factory. I'd probably drop by Bottlehead as well just for fun.


----------



## Argo Duck

Speaking of speakers, I tried Parker Audio again and this time got an immediate reply (David Dutill) and a fast series of follow-ups to my questions. I'm not looking to replace my main speaker system, just to find a capable home office partner for the taboo. Their baby speakers the 92dB Trolls fit the bill for desktop and/or small room use.

I've definitely decided to try these but meantime got interested in the BMC PureDAC. Has to be one or the other this year! If I opt for the speakers I'll certainly post a mini-review when the time comes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Speaking of speakers, I tried Parker Audio again and this time got an immediate reply (David Dutill) and a fast series of follow-ups to my questions. I'm not looking to replace my main speaker system, just to find a capable home office partner for the taboo. Their baby speakers the 92dB Trolls fit the bill for desktop and/or small room use.
> 
> I've definitely decided to try these but meantime got interested in the BMC PureDAC. Has to be one or the other this year! If I opt for the speakers I'll certainly post a mini-review when the time comes.


 
  Andre, the DM945's are terrific with the Taboo. They are beautiful too. Great fit and finish as you would expect from Decware.


----------



## Argo Duck

Eric, I forgot about those! More to think about...


----------



## longbowbbs

They do sound sweet. I have them here hooked up the the Taboo....


----------



## Charnwood

I've been doing a little tube rolling. I'm now running with a Telefunken E88CC/6922 up front. Overall I think it favours the HD800's a little more giving the system a bit more clarity and depth.
 Yet to try are one of several pairs of matched EL84's that I've had for years. They were from Chelmer Valve here in the UK and that's all I know about them.


----------



## koiloco

Hi guys,
  
 My taboo is coming tmr.  Quick question for current taboo MKIII owners.  Will there be any difference if I hook up my HE500 to the speaker outputs vs. the 4pin XLR, in term of power, noise, and sound quality ?  Headphone outs on the taboo should come from the same source as speaker outs with probably resistors in line or something??? Thx.


----------



## funch

Sctoll down to the schematic. That should answer your question.
  
http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm


----------



## koiloco

funch said:


> Sctoll down to the schematic. That should answer your question.
> 
> http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm


 
 got it.  Thx. That answered my question.


----------



## Pentode Guy

Just placed an order last week!
 I'm glad you guys like the sound of pentode and negative feedback.


----------



## longbowbbs

Welcome aboard Pentode Guy!  Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## OPR8R

New gear day.  Lot of breaking in to do.  Will post impressions in a few days or so.  Here's pictures.  Decware from left to right, CSP3+, ZP3, and now almost half a year old, Taboo MKIII.


----------



## koiloco

Just got my MKIII this morning today also.  So far so good, very happy and impressed with the quality, both build and sound.  No hum/noise issue with my HE500 at all.  With the Q701, it already brought things up a notch across the board.  I will have to let things settle down before sharing what I think about the taboo.
  
 Updated : so far, lucid mode is not for me and the music genres I listen to.  Original lucid mode is subtle and interesting but the new one is pretty out there


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Just got my MKIII this morning today also.  So far so good, very happy and impressed with the quality, both build and sound.  No hum/noise issue with my HE500 at all.  With the Q701, it already brought things up a notch across the board.  I will have to let things settle down before sharing what I think about the taboo.


 
  
 Congrats.  Give it a few days.  Once you hit that initial break-in point, you'll be all smiles.


----------



## mwindham08

I wish the csp3 had the gauges like the taboo. That's being really picky though. Both look really good. Really nice setup.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> I wish the csp3 had the gauges like the taboo. That's being really picky though. Both look really good. Really nice setup.


 
  
 Thanks, and I don't think that's picky.  I wish the Taboo had VU meters.


----------



## jazzgas

Longbowbbs,  I've been considering the HD 800s.  I currently have the LCD 2.2 and the Taboo II with a Jolida CDP.  In reading many have said that the HD 800s are fatiguing, overly bright, sibilant, and other scary criticisms.  I see you have a Taboo III and a CSP  (which I've ordered but don't have yet).  I also see you use silver widows....wouldn't this make the HD 800s even brighter....I've got a set of balanced SWs ordered for my LCD 2.2 which I would like to brighten up a bit.  Please tell me your experience with the HD 800.  What tubes other than stock have you used that do well with the HD 800s?  Any encouragement would be welcome.  Mark.


----------



## koiloco

Hi guys,
 After more than 24 hours with the Taboo, I know that I am keeping amp, probably for a very long time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now, I am gearing up and start researching for different tubes to roll a bit later on.  If you have done some tube rolling on the taboo MKIII, please share your experience.  Thx.


----------



## koiloco

Guys,
  
 I really need help.  I got a huge problem with the taboo and so baffled that I couldn't think of a reason why this is happening.
 I was going through my music collection one by one when I decided to put some DSD tracks on and see how fabulous it would sound from my DSD Teac 501 and the taboo.
 All I got was loud static noise from both channels on top of music.  I have tried the following.
  

Within the same TEAC media (DSD) player, play a regular wave file.  This = no noise, perfect sound. So interconnect is not the issue here.  I've listened the entire evening with same interconnects.
Same TEAC media player, play a DSD track.  This = loud static noise again.  I disconnect RCA's output from the Taboo and plug it into my Emotiva mini-X.  This = perfect sound (still same DSD track playing).
  
 Also, the noise got very loud beyond click #12 on the volume knob while not as loud at click #11, and at click #10, it's barely audible.  What the heck could be going on?
 I can't think of anything and don't want to bug Steve until Monday morning.
  
 Any help/advise/input would be appreciated.


----------



## longbowbbs

jazzgas said:


> Longbowbbs,  I've been considering the HD 800s.  I currently have the LCD 2.2 and the Taboo II with a Jolida CDP.  In reading many have said that the HD 800s are fatiguing, overly bright, sibilant, and other scary criticisms.  I see you have a Taboo III and a CSP  (which I've ordered but don't have yet).  I also see you use silver widows....wouldn't this make the HD 800s even brighter....I've got a set of balanced SWs ordered for my LCD 2.2 which I would like to brighten up a bit.  Please tell me your experience with the HD 800.  What tubes other than stock have you used that do well with the HD 800s?  Any encouragement would be welcome.  Mark.


 
  
 Mark, one of the nice things about either the Silver Poison or the Silver Widows is the small amount of gold that is in the wire. It negates the general brightness that all silver seems to have and really makes the low end come out nice and clean. I have never considered the HD800's overly bright. Generally when a review suggests this, the rest of the chain is not up to the HD800's in quality. Once you get to the better amps, then the HD800's stay clean. The brightness seems to be a result of the lack of quality they are receiving.
  
 I have listened to both the LCD-2's and HD800's with the Taboo MK III and I prefer the HD800's. I have used a balanced cable for both cans. I did not have SW's for the LCD 2's but I would expect nothing but improved sound from them.
  
 Good luck with your choices!
  
 Eric


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> Guys,
> 
> I really need help.  I got a huge problem with the taboo and so baffled that I couldn't think of a reason why this is happening.
> I was going through my music collection one by one when I decided to put some DSD tracks on and see how fabulous it would sound from my DSD Teac 501 and the taboo.
> ...


 
  
 This is NOT a Taboo issue. It is a DAC or DSD file issue. I am playing DSD64 and DSD128 files perfectly (and beautifully) with the Taboo via my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse. I would start with your DAC setting and also your DSD playback software's preferences. I had to tweek the settings in Audirvana+ before things played properly.


----------



## mikek200

jazzgas said:


> Longbowbbs,  I've been considering the HD 800s.  I currently have the LCD 2.2 and the Taboo II with a Jolida CDP.  In reading many have said that the HD 800s are fatiguing, overly bright, sibilant, and other scary criticisms.  I see you have a Taboo III and a CSP  (which I've ordered but don't have yet).  I also see you use silver widows....wouldn't this make the HD 800s even brighter....I've got a set of balanced SWs ordered for my LCD 2.2 which I would like to brighten up a bit.  Please tell me your experience with the HD 800.  What tubes other than stock have you used that do well with the HD 800s?  Any encouragement would be welcome.  Mark.


 
  
 Jazz,
 Just to add with what LongBow has said.
  
 I have owned the lcd-2's,and the he-6's-I have to say ,that imho,the hd800's are probably ,the finest headphones I've ever owned
 I can't understand ,why so many ,find them bright--I do not,not,... with the type of music I listen to ,...mostly classical,,,jazz,70's rock,,,,and lately female vocals.,some opera??
 My setup is:
 Taboo II > Metrum Octave II.
  
 Here are the tubes I'm currently using:
  
 Sophie 274B--Rectifier
 Raytheon 5751 windmill getter---signal tube
 JJ 6p15-ev stock tune ---Output tubes
  
 There are a few other tubes that I do sometimes use ,like the Mullards,Siemens Silverplate,and recently a Mazda 12au7 Cifte.
  
 Hope this helps,& good luck.,with the incoming taboo III


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> This is NOT a Taboo issue. It is a DAC or DSD file issue. I am playing DSD64 and DSD128 files perfectly (and beautifully) with the Taboo via my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse. I would start with your DAC setting and also your DSD playback software's preferences. I had to tweek the settings in Audirvana+ before things played properly.


 
  
 Did you read my #2?  With the same DSD playback software and preference, I unplugged the RCA cable from the taboo and plugged it into my Emotiva.  Everything sounds perfect.  I've been listening to DSD file from my TEAC 501 amped by the Emotiva for awhile now so no, it's not a DAC, DSD software issue/preferences.  If it were DAC, DSD software issue, the Emotiva will have the same problem.  This is why I am so lost without any possible technical explaination.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Did you read my #2?  With the same DSD playback software and preference, I unplugged the RCA cable from the taboo and plugged it into my Emotiva.  Everything sounds perfect.  I've been listening to DSD file from my TEAC 501 amped by the Emotiva for awhile now so no, it's not a DAC, DSD software issue/preferences.  If it were DAC, DSD software issue, the Emotiva will have the same problem.  This is why I am so lost without any possible technical explaination.


 
  
 Wow, that's pretty strange.  Needless to say, DSD's run just fine through my DAC-2 DSD/Taboo.  Really weird.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> Wow, that's pretty strange.  Needless to say, DSD's run just fine through my DAC-2 DSD/Taboo.  Really weird.


 
  
 It's weird beyond my technical understanding.  I am listening to DSD files right now, using TEAC DSD player which put the TEAC in direct DSD mode, not play through PCM like in foobar and my $200 Emotiva sounds 100% perfect.  Unplug RCA and plug it into taboo with everything exactly the same will = loud static noise beyond comprehension.
  
 Also, remember that a lot of player converts DSD files to high rate files and play it over PCM.  Please check if your DAC is in true/direct DSD mode or it's just processing a super high rate PCM.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> It's weird beyond my technical understanding.  I am listening to DSD files right now, using TEAC DSD player which put the TEAC in direct DSD mode, not play through PCM like in foobar and my $200 Emotiva sounds 100% perfect.  Unplug RCA and plug it into taboo with everything exactly the same will = loud static noise beyond comprehension.
> 
> Also, remember that a lot of player converts DSD files to high rate files and play it over PCM.  Please check if your DAC is in true/direct DSD mode or it's just processing a super high rate PCM.


 
 DAC-2's display shows whether or not it's in DSD64, DSD128 or somethings else (when it's not DSD's).  I just don't know why, if your DAC is converting the DSD to analog, you would be getting static.  Hopefully you figure it out.  Let us know.


----------



## Charnwood

longbowbbs said:


> Mark, one of the nice things about either the Silver Poison or the Silver Widows is the small amount of gold that is in the wire. It negates the general brightness that all silver seems to have and really makes the low end come out nice and clean. I have never considered the HD800's overly bright. Generally when a review suggests this, the rest of the chain is not up to the HD800's in quality. Once you get to the better amps, then the HD800's stay clean. The brightness seems to be a result of the lack of quality they are receiving.
> 
> I have listened to both the LCD-2's and HD800's with the Taboo MK III and I prefer the HD800's. I have used a balanced cable for both cans. I did not have SW's for the LCD 2's but I would expect nothing but improved sound from them.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mikek200 said:


> Jazz,
> Just to add with what LongBow has said.
> 
> I have owned the lcd-2's,and the he-6's-I have to say ,that imho,the hd800's are probably ,the finest headphones I've ever owned
> ...


 
  
 I totally agree with what's been said here regarding the HD800's.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > This is NOT a Taboo issue. It is a DAC or DSD file issue. I am playing DSD64 and DSD128 files perfectly (and beautifully) with the Taboo via my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse. I would start with your DAC setting and also your DSD playback software's preferences. I had to tweek the settings in Audirvana+ before things played properly.
> ...


 
  
 I did...I have no idea why you are experiencing these problems. The amp only plays what it receives. My experience is that any file type, when played successfully via the DAC/Pre-amp, come through my Taboo perfectly from either input.


----------



## jazzgas

mikek200 said:


> Jazz,
> Just to add with what LongBow has said.
> 
> I have owned the lcd-2's,and the he-6's-I have to say ,that imho,the hd800's are probably ,the finest headphones I've ever owned
> ...


 
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> Mark, one of the nice things about either the Silver Poison or the Silver Widows is the small amount of gold that is in the wire. It negates the general brightness that all silver seems to have and really makes the low end come out nice and clean. I have never considered the HD800's overly bright. Generally when a review suggests this, the rest of the chain is not up to the HD800's in quality. Once you get to the better amps, then the HD800's stay clean. The brightness seems to be a result of the lack of quality they are receiving.
> 
> I have listened to both the LCD-2's and HD800's with the Taboo MK III and I prefer the HD800's. I have used a balanced cable for both cans. I did not have SW's for the LCD 2's but I would expect nothing but improved sound from them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks everyone for your input.  I think I'll give the HD 800's a shot but wouldn't ever give up the LCD 2.2s......well maybe for a LCD 3...hehe.  Nothing wrong with two flavors...right?  I have a question in to Frank of Toxic Cables to see if he could make a Silver Widow adapter so I could use my LCD SWs with the HD 800s.  I'm not sure I'm ready to spend another $490 for a second dedicated set for the HD 800s.
  
*mikek200,  I've got a pair of those Raytheon's coming today for use in my Jolida CDP but before they go in I think I'll try one in the taboo as you are.  Is it really a 5751 if it isn't a triple mica but rather a 2 mica with a "windmill".  Below is what I read at "Joe's tube lore" on this tube.  Thanks, Mark.*
  
 "Raytheon - Well this guy is one of the happy surprises on the list. I first stumbled on him about a year ago and lived quite happily with a pair in the Thor until I finally found some of the killer Sylvanias. The great thing about this tube beyond its sound quality is its availability, but more on that later. The strength of this tube is its overall balance. Its got the 5751 sense of focus in spades, is clean, open and evenhanded in frequency response if just a little sweet on top. As a result it has just a bit less life and energy than some of the premium Sylvanias and even the GE black plate. Its also a bit less forward in terms of where it puts the performers in the soundstage compared to those tubes - but I still wouldn't call it laid back. Availability on this guy is pretty good. Tube world has been selling these for the past several months, SND has had them in the past as well, and a pair or two are on auction at ebay every few weeks. Price? Usually $15 to $18 a tube. I'd definitely track down a pair of these if I were playing around with 5751s...
 In my part 3 installation above, I identified the Raytheon as a 3 mica spacer design. It is in fact a 2 mica spacer with a "windmill" getter that looks more than a bit like a 3 spacer design on quick glance - I should have checked closer." 
* *


----------



## Charnwood

koiloco said:


> Guys,
> 
> I really need help.  I got a huge problem with the taboo and so baffled that I couldn't think of a reason why this is happening.
> I was going through my music collection one by one when I decided to put some DSD tracks on and see how fabulous it would sound from my DSD Teac 501 and the taboo.
> ...


 
  
 Do you get this with all DSD tracks or just tracks from a particular album? I don't have a problem playing DSD tracks from my Chord QX on my Taboo Mk3 so this has me puzzled.


----------



## koiloco

charnwood said:


> Do you get this with all DSD tracks or just tracks from a particular album? I don't have a problem playing DSD tracks from my Chord QX on my Taboo Mk3 so this has me puzzled.


 
 All DSD tracks were played from same TEAC dsd player software and from different albums.  Not a single issue with my Emotiva on which I've been listening to these DSD files until I receive my taboo last Friday.  I tried different DSD players last nite, including jriver and foobar.  They suffered the same issue.  Note that I am playing DSD in direct mode in which the DAC is processing the DSD data natively, not letting the dsd player sofware convert DSD to PCM and play as high rate PCM on the DAC.s
  
 The other thing is that at click 8 or 9 on the volume know, the noise is barely audible.  At click #11 or #12, the noise is as loud as the music which is very scary.
  
 I am puzzled as well and waiting for a reply from Steve.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> All DSD tracks were played from same TEAC dsd player software and from different albums.  Not a single issue with my Emotiva on which I've been listening to these DSD files until I receive my taboo last Friday.  I tried different DSD players last nite, including jriver and foobar.  They suffered the same issue.  Note that I am playing DSD in direct mode in which the DAC is processing the DSD data natively, not letting the dsd player sofware convert DSD to PCM and play as high rate PCM on the DAC.s
> 
> The other thing is that at click 8 or 9 on the volume know, the noise is barely audible.  At click #11 or #12, the noise is as loud as the music which is very scary.
> 
> I am puzzled as well and waiting for a reply from Steve.


 
 If you reached out to Steve via email, it might take a bit.  I'd definitely try calling Sarah (or Devon) about this.  She'll put Steve on the phone.  I can assure you that direct DSD playing works just fine on the Taboo, provided of course you have a DAC that can support DSD's, which it seems you do.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> If you reached out to Steve via email, it might take a bit.  I'd definitely try calling Sarah (or Devon) about this.  She'll put Steve on the phone.  I can assure you that direct DSD playing works just fine on the Taboo, provided of course you have a DAC that can support DSD's, which it seems you do.


 
 Thx OPR8R,  I will call when I have a moment.  I brought the whole set up to the office this morning to try on my system at work.  So far, same problem.
 I downloaded a new TEAC DSD player but it didn't make any different.  From the TEAC 501 to my cheapo Fiio E9K = no problem just like with the Emotiva at home.
 I am so puzzled.


----------



## mikek200

jazzgas said:


> Thanks everyone for your input.  I think I'll give the HD 800's a shot but wouldn't ever give up the LCD 2.2s......well maybe for a LCD 3...hehe.  Nothing wrong with two flavors...right?  I have a question in to Frank of Toxic Cables to see if he could make a Silver Widow adapter so I could use my LCD SWs with the HD 800s.  I'm not sure I'm ready to spend another $490 for a second dedicated set for the HD 800s.
> 
> *mikek200,  I've got a pair of those Raytheon's coming today for use in my Jolida CDP but before they go in I think I'll try one in the taboo as you are.  Is it really a 5751 if it isn't a triple mica but rather a 2 mica with a "windmill".  Below is what I read at "Joe's tube lore" on this tube.  Thanks, Mark.*
> 
> ...


 
 Here is the Raytheon I have:
  
 5751 Raytheon blackplate windmill getter, Premium industrial grade 12AX7.--it stays on my Taboo 90% of the time--Brent Jesse is selling them for about $125.00 each
 Check his website.
 To my ears,they are an exceptional tube
  
 Nick Dangerous,recommended a few tubes to me ,and they have proven to be outstanding choices.
 Sylvania JHS 5751 black 3 -mica
 Sylvania 5751 yellow label,3-mica
  
 Another one ,you might consider is :
 GE 3-mica 5751 D-Getter


----------



## koiloco

Update on my DSD problem :
  
 I talked to Steve today and he happens to have the exact same DAC (Teac ud501) that he plays his DSD files through in the exact same way I do; comp> TEAC DSD Player>Teac ud501 in direct DSD mode>taboo.  How cool is that?  Steve took the time to hook everything up just to verify his TEAC DAC with a sample Taboo he has on the floor.  He didn't have the noise problem like I do.  So he suggested that I might have a defective TEAC DAC. 
 I already contacted Amazon and have the replacement unit coming on Wednesday.  Until then, let's wait and see.  I do hope that it's the DAC causing the problem even though it's very interesting how the problem doesn't exist with my 2 other amps, only with the taboo.  I'll keep you guys posted on Wednesday when I find out.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Update on my DSD problem :
> 
> I talked to Steve today and he happens to have the exact same DAC (Teac ud501) that he plays his DSD files through in the exact same way I do; comp> TEAC DSD Player>Teac ud501 in direct DSD mode>taboo.  How cool is that?  Steve took the time to hook everything up just to verify his TEAC DAC with a sample Taboo he has on the floor.  He didn't have the noise problem like I do.  So he suggested that I might have a defective TEAC DAC.
> I already contacted Amazon and have the replacement unit coming on Wednesday.  Until then, let's wait and see.  I do hope that it's the DAC causing the problem even though it's very interesting how the problem doesn't exist with my 2 other amps, only with the taboo.  I'll keep you guys posted on Wednesday when I find out.


 
 Wednesday's not too bad.  Good luck.
  
 By the way, I think TEAC did a really nice job on the design of that line of devices.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> Wednesday's not too bad.  Good luck.
> 
> *By the way, I think TEAC did a really nice job on the design of that line of devices.*


 
 I agree 100%.  Can't wait till Wed to find out which piece is the problem in this situation, taboo or TEAC.  I am afraid it's a 50/50 at this point cuz DSDs have been playing fine from the DAC feeding into my Emotiva and E9K.  But as Steve said, TEAC 501 is a very complicated machine.  Being a handbuilt product, the taboo does have higher room for error.  I just finished building a bottlehead crack yesterday.  I know exactly how easy it is to make a mistake.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> opr8r said:
> 
> 
> > Wednesday's not too bad.  Good luck.
> ...


 
  
 Sometimes two pieces of gear just don't work together. Glad my DAC-2 is happy with my Decware!
  
 I hope you get things resolved soon.


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> Sometimes two pieces of gear just don't work together. Glad my DAC-2 is happy with my Decware!
> 
> I hope you get things resolved soon.


 
  
 Me too!  After talking to Steve, I felt better cuz I know the taboo/TEAC 501 DSD DAC will work because that's what Steve has too and did verify today that it should not be an issue.  I like both a lot at this point so choosing between the 2 will be tough.


----------



## koiloco

Also, any current taboo MKIII owner can verify this for me on your amp?  With no music playing, when I turn the volume knob up, from click 0 to 10, no noise whatsoever between each click.  Starting at click 12 and above, when I turn each click, I can hear a popping sound in my HPs (right cup) and at the same time, the needle in the right meter would fluctuate.  Isn't it supposed to be silence when you turn the volume knob up and down?


----------



## thegrobe

koiloco said:


> Also, any current taboo MKIII owner can verify this for me on your amp?  With no music playing, when I turn the volume knob up, from click 0 to 10, no noise whatsoever between each click.  Starting at click 12 and above, when I turn each click, I can hear a popping sound in my HPs (right cup) and at the same time, the needle in the right meter would fluctuate.  Isn't it supposed to be silence when you turn the volume knob up and down?




I had something similar, it turned out to be the output tubes. Except it was a weird squealing noise which changed pitch at certain steps. I got another couple sets of identical tubes as stock from an eBay seller, and they are fine. One pair makes a little noise occasionally though which makes me think those tubes are a bit fussy. Maybe different tubes are with trying?

In fact, I have no reason or explanation but I wouldn't be surprised if your DSD issue was reacting weirdly with those tubes somehow. Okay everyone mock me now but just thought it may somehow be related.

This brings me to your earlier question about tube rolling. I tried some different EL84 in the output position, but I keep coming back to the stock 6P15P-ev or the Svetlana SV83. Svetlana sound great and silent as well. Be aware there is a version of the Svetlana that Steve says to steer clear of. It's the the "small label" one as sold by the tube store or others. 

I've been liking a Genelex gold lion 6922 or a JAN sylvania 6922 in the front and the Philips 5R4GYS rectifier. The 5R4GYS is a bit lean in bass, but nice detail and mids/highs.....Although I have only tried a few of each that's what I'm liking now. I still have a few 6922 on hand though that I haven't tried yet.


----------



## koiloco

thegrobe said:


> I had something similar, it turned out to be the output tubes. Except it was a weird squealing noise which changed pitch at certain steps. I got another couple sets of identical tubes as stock from an eBay seller, and they are fine. One pair makes a little noise occasionally though which makes me think those tubes are a bit fussy. Maybe different tubes are with trying?
> 
> In fact, I have no reason or explanation but I wouldn't be surprised if your DSD issue was reacting weirdly with those tubes somehow. Okay everyone mock me now but just thought it may somehow be related.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thx! On wednesday, if the new replacement TEAC DAC solve the DSD issue then I will keep the taboo and start trying out different tubes.  If the new DAC won't solve the problem, the taboo will be going back to Steve.  At this point, I am still hoping it's the DAC, though my technical side is telling me otherwise cuz the DSD issue doesn't exist on my $200 Emotiva mini-X and my $100 Fiio E9K.  Why should it happen with a $1800 amp that's supposed to have the best components relatively.  Decware and Steve have been so wonderful to work with.  Don't get me wrong, but I won't have time either to ship things back and forth.  I am keeping my fingers crossed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, the volume knob issue I can totally live it.  Not a big deal! but DSD issue got to be fixed cuz I have quite a few SACDs and start building up my DSD library already.


----------



## mwindham08

thegrobe said:


> I had something similar, it turned out to be the output tubes. Except it was a weird squealing noise which changed pitch at certain steps. I got another couple sets of identical tubes as stock from an eBay seller, and they are fine. One pair makes a little noise occasionally though which makes me think those tubes are a bit fussy. Maybe different tubes are with trying?
> 
> In fact, I have no reason or explanation but I wouldn't be surprised if your DSD issue was reacting weirdly with those tubes somehow. Okay everyone mock me now but just thought it may somehow be related.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Jan Sylvania 6922 is my favorite by far as well. I actually just bought a few more for the csp3, so hopefully they sound good there as well. You might try something like the amperex 6DJ8 orange label with the Philips Rectifier. Seems like it had more bass than the Sylvania if memory serves correctly.


----------



## longbowbbs

thegrobe said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > Also, any current taboo MKIII owner can verify this for me on your amp?  With no music playing, when I turn the volume knob up, from click 0 to 10, no noise whatsoever between each click.  Starting at click 12 and above, when I turn each click, I can hear a popping sound in my HPs (right cup) and at the same time, the needle in the right meter would fluctuate.  Isn't it supposed to be silence when you turn the volume knob up and down?
> ...


 
  
 +1 on the Genelax output tubes. Excellent upgrade for a reasonable price.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> +1 on the Genelax output tubes. Excellent upgrade for a reasonable price.


 
 I had 3 Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8's ready to rock in my CSP3.  Two hummed like crazy, and one rings.  I guess that can happen with 50 year old tubes.  The Genalex tubes seem easy to come by and pretty inexpensive.  Compared to stock tubes, how would you describe their sound?
  


mwindham08 said:


> Jan Sylvania 6922 is my favorite by far as well. I actually just bought a few more for the csp3, so hopefully they sound good there as well. You might try something like the amperex 6DJ8 orange label with the Philips Rectifier. Seems like it had more bass than the Sylvania if memory serves correctly.


 

 Same question for you.  Can you compare/contrast the Sylvania tubes to stock?  Also, where are you getting these, and are they just Jan Sylvania 6922?


----------



## mwindham08

mwindham08 said:


> Here is a little mini review/impressions of some of the 6DJ8/6922 tubes I have used with the Taboo.
> This is the first thing I have written like this concerning audio equipment so I hope this doesn't turn out too terribly!
> 
> Stock Tubes (not sure what brand they are)
> ...


 
  
 Here is a little review I did a while back. More specifically I have been getting the gold pin version of the Jan Sylvanias. 
 I usually find them on ebay, last week there was like 3 or 4 auctions but of course now there isn't a single one. 
 There are some auctions on ebay but they are not the gold pin kind.
  
 I compared the JJ 6DJ8 gold pins vs. the regular counterparts a long time ago and I couldn't tell a difference so the 
 regular Sylvanias are probably just as good or really really close to the gold pin variety.


----------



## mwindham08

Here is a picture of them. I managed to snag these for 40 dollars which I thought was pretty good.
 They seem to be steadily rising in price.
  
 Sorry to quote my own post wasn't trying to be ostentatious


----------



## OPR8R

Thanks, mwindham08.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > +1 on the Genelax output tubes. Excellent upgrade for a reasonable price.
> ...


 
 They have more slam and dynamics at the expense of smoothness. I left the input tube as stock 6N1P to blend the two. I like the combination. More detail and crispness. Combined with the USAF-596 it really tightened up the CSP2+.


----------



## mwindham08

longbowbbs said:


> They have more slam and dynamics at the expense of smoothness. I left the input tube as stock 6N1P to blend the two. I like the combination. More detail and crispness. Combined with the USAF-596 it really tightened up the CSP2+.


 
  
 Oh I can't wait till I get my CSP3....MOAR tube rolling!


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Oh I can't wait till I get my CSP3....MOAR tube rolling!


 
 Hence all my questions about tubes that are easier to get


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> I compared the JJ 6DJ8 gold pins vs. the regular counterparts a long time ago and I couldn't tell a difference so the
> regular Sylvanias are probably just as good or really really close to the gold pin variety.


 
  
 The JAN Sylvanias I have are regular pin, not gold and they seem good. I got them for less than $50 for a pair, so not too pricey. Pretty easy to find. I haven't compared gold to steel pins, of course. Next time I'll try to track down some gold pin. Those you posted above are sexy. 
  
 OPR8R - You asked above about the sound of Genelex 6922, and comparing to stock tubes...I find the stock 6N1P to be tilted towards warm and lush. Just a big blanket of sound getting cozy in your head. Details are still there but very relaxing. The Genelex I find "clean", and dynamic, with no real tilt towards bass or treble, etc. Just kind of does it's thing and sounds right. Also a plus to me is I'm confident in it's quality. I like that. New manufacture, gold pins, etc. You can tell it is a quality piece. Not as much as a roll of the dice as, say, some tube from the 50's or 60's. 
  
 The JAN Sylvanias are similar to the Genelex but maybe a little leaner bass and better separation. ... maybe almost on the edge of being "edgy" sounding? Honestly haven't spent as much time with these as the Genelex. So I'm going to swap these in for the next week!
  
 Some other rolling experiences since I'm thinking of it- 
  
 I also tried a JAN sylvania 6DJ8 in the front and didn't really care for it as much. It was much leaner, thin sounding than the 6922. That paired with the 5R4GYS rectifier was detail crazy but no bass and fatiguing. 
  
 The Stock 247B rectifier does everything pretty good, but just not anything super exciting. I also have an RCA 5Y3GT. It's got a rock n' roll thing going on. Good dynamic and body but the highs are lacking a bit. I like the 5R4GYS the best so far out of the three but it is a bit lean on bass, as I mentioned before. Not a problem with the stock tube in front but anything less warm and more lean up front you start to notice it. But really revealing, fingers on frets, things dropping on the floor, etc...little tidbits in the recording really come out. And a nice spacey midrange. I am yet to try any other rectifiers but I would like to get some more. 
  
 These are all my "new to tube rolling" impressions, so take it with a grain of salt. Also these impressions may change as I mix and match with more rectifiers/output tubes and add the CSP3 to the mix.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> The JAN Sylvanias I have are regular pin, not gold and they seem good. I got them for less than $50 for a pair, so not too pricey. Pretty easy to find. I haven't compared gold to steel pins, of course. Next time I'll try to track down some gold pin. Those you posted above are sexy.
> 
> OPR8R - You asked above about the sound of Genelex 6922, and comparing to stock tubes...I find the stock 6N1P to be tilted towards warm and lush. Just a big blanket of sound getting cozy in your head. Details are still there but very relaxing. The Genelex I find "clean", and dynamic, with no real tilt towards bass or treble, etc. Just kind of does it's thing and sounds right. Also a plus to me is I'm confident in it's quality. I like that. New manufacture, gold pins, etc. You can tell it is a quality piece. Not as much as a roll of the dice as, say, some tube from the 50's or 60's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exactly what I was needing, guys.  Thanks for the responses.
  
 In an ideal world I could find a tube like the Orange Globe 6DJ8 to pair with the 5R4GYS.  It sounds like maybe the Genalex is a step in that direction.  I might have to just keep watching Ebay.


----------



## thegrobe

longbowbbs said:


> They have more slam and dynamics at the expense of smoothness. I left the input tube as stock 6N1P to blend the two. I like the combination. More detail and crispness. Combined with the USAF-596 it really tightened up the CSP2+.


 
  
 Ha ha As I was typing my nonsense about the "warm blanket" etc description of the stock tube...you post this. This is a good description of what I was searching for there. Stock is warm and smooth. My descriptions need work but at least I'm hearing stuff right.
  


opr8r said:


> Exactly what I was needing, guys.  Thanks for the responses.
> 
> In an ideal world I could find a tube like the Orange Globe 6DJ8 to pair with the 5R4GYS.  It sounds like maybe the Genalex is a step in that direction.  I might have to just keep watching Ebay.


 
  
 I am getting most of my tubes from Jim McShane, try contacting him. He has the Genelex at a fair price, and they are tested thoroughly by somebody reputable and knowledgeable. Good service.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> I am getting most of my tubes from Jim McShane, try contacting him. He has the Genelex at a fair price, and they are tested thoroughly by somebody reputable and knowledgeable. Good service.


 
  
 Genalex are pretty easy to find, it seems.  It's the Amperex that I'll have to watch for.  I think I will give the Genalex a shot though.


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> Genalex are pretty easy to find, it seems.  It's the Amperex that I'll have to watch for.  I think I will give the Genalex a shot though.




Oh, right. My bad. I read that as you needed to keep watching eBay for the Genelex.


----------



## mwindham08

Hey do any of you know anything about hammonds tubes?
  
 I have some EL84's that say hammond on them in like an orangish peach color.
  
 I can see people selling amperex hammond rebranded tubes, hammond mullard tubes, and hammond philips tubes.
  
 Did hammond rebrand multiple manufacturers tubes or did they make their own?
  
 All these supposed rebrands look identical to the tubes I own.
  
 It's made it difficult to determine who actually made this tube.
  
  
 Edit: They say made in holland on them so that makes me lean more towards Phillips or Amperex


----------



## longbowbbs

mwindham08 said:


> Hey do any of you know anything about hammonds tubes?
> 
> I have some EL84's that say hammond on them in like an orangish peach color.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hammonds are a brand of Organ that use tube's. They got rebranded at the factory and packaged for use with their organ products.


----------



## mwindham08

That's really interesting, I did a little research and found that the Hammond Organ Company was based out of Chicago.
  
 They could have been buying anybody's tubes and rebranding them and from what I've seent they did buy from a variety of manufacturers.
  
 They do say made in Holland so I'm still leaning towards amperex/philips


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> Hey do any of you know anything about hammonds tubes?
> 
> I have some EL84's that say hammond on them in like an orangish peach color.
> 
> ...




If you look at it from the top, are there four lines embossed in the glass, kind of forming an "x" shape? If so, I believe they are Amperex. I have a set as well, sounds nice in the Taboo.


----------



## mwindham08

Yeah they do! I bet that's it thanks a lot guys


----------



## Oskari

The seams are indicative of Philips tooling. The acid-etched code tells the factory.


----------



## koiloco

Hi guys,
  
 Unfortunately my technical logic is correct.  It's not the TEAC UD501 DAC causing the loud noise issue with DSD playback.  With the new replacement DAC arrived today from Amazon, the problem is still the same.  As I said before, i did not think it was the DAC because DSD playback sounds perfect on the Emotiva and my cheap Fiio e9K.  The problem only happened on the taboo.  But I listened to Steve and ordered a replacement DAC anyway.  Well, now I have the answer.  Let's see what's going to happen next.  I am waiting for a call from Decware.  For the $, this is turning out to be quite a bit of trouble and time wasted than I would like. But so far, communication from Decware is top notch.  I do hope to resolve this issue because I really like the SQ of the taboo.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Unfortunately my technical logic is correct.  It's not the TEAC UD501 DAC causing the loud noise issue with DSD playback.  With the new replacement DAC arrived today from Amazon, the problem is still the same.  As I said before, i did not think it was the DAC because DSD playback sounds perfect on the Emotiva and my cheap Fiio e9K.  The problem only happened on the taboo.  But I listened to Steve and ordered a replacement DAC anyway.  Well, now I have the answer.  Let's see what's going to happen next.  I am waiting for a call from Decware.  For the $, this is turning out to be quite a bit of trouble and time wasted than I would like. But so far, communication from Decware is top notch.  I do hope to resolve this issue because I really like the SQ of the taboo.


 
 What a bummer.  I can't imagine what might be happening there.  Your other non-DSD files are being converted to analog and playing just fine, right?  How is it one type of D to A converted file play and not the other?  So weird.  Anyway, I hope you get it resolved one way or the other.  Sorry you're going through this hassle.


----------



## mwindham08

I know there have been a few recommendations for the philips EL84.
  
 Has anyone tried any other EL84's with the Taboo? I've heard the Telefunkens are supposed to be really good but you definitely pay top dollar for them.


----------



## longbowbbs

mwindham08 said:


> I know there have been a few recommendations for the philips EL84.
> 
> Has anyone tried any other EL84's with the Taboo? I've heard the Telefunkens are supposed to be really good but you definitely pay top dollar for them.


 
  
 Mullards are nice.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> What a bummer.  I can't imagine what might be happening there.  *Your other non-DSD files are being converted to analog and playing just fine, right*?  How is it one type of D to A converted file play and not the other?  So weird.  Anyway, I hope you get it resolved one way or the other.  Sorry you're going through this hassle.


 
 Yup, Flac, wave, mp3  ... play flawlessly.  This is where my technical understanding reaches its limit regarding audio and I am completely puzzled by this.  On top of that, Steve has the same TEAC DAC that he plays his DSDs from and doesn't have the same problem.  So logically, my taboo is only possible reason left.  Wouldn't you agree?


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Yup, Flac, wave, mp3  ... play flawlessly.  This is where my technical understanding reaches its limit regarding audio and I am completely puzzled by this.  On top of that, Steve has the same TEAC DAC that he plays his DSDs from and doesn't have the same problem.  So logically, my taboo is only possible reason left.  Wouldn't you agree?


 
 I honestly don't know.  There's one of two things happening.
  
 1) Some how the TEAC isn't converting the stream properly, so the Taboo isn't getting an analog signal
  
 or
  
 2) Somehow your Taboo is incompatible with some analog signals.
  
 Neither one makes sense to me based on your description of what's happening, and since I don't know much about how either works, your guess is as good as mine.
  
 The only thing similar I can think of is years ago I had an iPod (built-in DAC of course) and could use a iPod dock out to RCA cable to connect it to my Pioneer amp and it worked fine.  But somehow when I upgraded to an iPhone, the stupid thing wouldn't work.  I mean the iPhone had a DAC, what the heck?  I suppose that was an issue with the cable, but why should that have mattered?  As you can see, I'm quite ignorant about these things.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> I honestly don't know.  There's one of two things happening.
> 
> 1*) Some how the TEAC isn't converting the stream properly, so the Taboo isn't getting an analog signal*
> 
> ...


 
 I thought about this too but it doesn't make sense as why both my Emotiva mini-x and Fiio E9K doesn't have the issue but only the taboo does.  Then, Steve tested his TEAC DAC, playing some DSDs using the same TEAC DSD player as I do, to a sample Taboo he pulled from his production floor and didn't have the same problem.  This was the reason Steve thought my DAC was bad but I honestly didn't agree but went ahead and ordered a replacement DAC from Amazon to verify anyway.
 Then, when thinking about your #2, if taboo is incompatible then why Steve's setup worked just fine.  Either scenarios absolutely don't make sense so the only explanation is that my taboo unit is messed up in some way.


----------



## thegrobe

.


----------



## thegrobe

oskari said:


> The seams are indicative of Philips tooling. The acid-etched code tells the factory.




I thought I had read something that meant Amperex. I stand corrected. Amperex, Phillips, whatever they are the pair I have are nice and smooth. I would like a bit more treble energy from them however. Minor nitpicking.

I find a lot of the tube rolling comes down to mood and music choice. Certain days/certain recordings I feel like smooth and warm is preferable, other times I like it lean, fast and detailed. Still I leave the tubes in for at least 5-7 days before changing anything to really get a feel for what they do.
I'm really enjoying tube rolling, it's so much fun and a total geek-fest.

That's so weird about the DSD issue. I've been thinking about that...once a signal is converted to analog....how can it not simply be amplified properly? So weird. So....Taboo!

My CSP3 shipped today! I can't wait to get that in the mix. Should be good stuff.


----------



## Oskari

thegrobe said:


> Amperex, Phillips


 
  
 Amperex was a US subsidiary of the conglomerate that was (and is) Philips. To know which factory (or associated company) made the tube, one must check the code present on most Philips group tubes.


----------



## koiloco

thegrobe said:


> I thought I had read something that meant Amperex. I stand corrected. Amperex, Phillips, whatever they are the pair I have are nice and smooth. I would like a bit more treble energy from them however. Minor nitpicking.
> 
> I find a lot of the tube rolling comes down to mood and music choice. Certain days/certain recordings I feel like smooth and warm is preferable, other times I like it lean, fast and detailed. Still I leave the tubes in for at least 5-7 days before changing anything to really get a feel for what they do.
> I'm really enjoying tube rolling, it's so much fun and a total geek-fest.
> ...


 
 I am just as puzzled.  Unless D/A conversion output for DSDs is totally different than D/A conversion for Wav, Flac, mp3...?  but then why Steve doesn't have the problem?  Weird to the extreme!  Anyway, taboo has been UPSed over-night to Steve.  He'll receive it tmr to figure out what's going on.  If he can't, I would have to start looking into other amp options.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I don't suppose it could be some weird kind of pick-up problem? Are the two units plugged into different power outlets? Tried changing this? Have you tried changing their physical placement? Tried different ic cables - maybe a shielding problem?

It is odd, but amplifying is what amplifiers do. Maybe work back from there


----------



## mwindham08

oskari said:


> Amperex was a US subsidiary of the conglomerate that was (and is) Philips. To know which factory (or associated company) made the tube, one must check the code present on most Philips group tubes.


 
  

 These philips tubes don't have ridges on top.
 Makes me lean towards Amperex.
  
 These would match my 6922 tube so much....want


----------



## koiloco

argo duck said:


> ^ I don't suppose it could be some weird kind of pick-up problem?* Are the two units plugged into different power outlets? Tried changing this? *Have you tried changing their physical placement? Tried different ic cables - maybe a shielding problem?
> 
> It is odd, but amplifying is what amplifiers do. Maybe work back from there


 
 This is actually a very good recommendation.  Both at work and at home, the 2 units(DAC and amp) were technically plugged into the same wall outlet(not physically direct).  Of course, at home, they were plugged into an AV grade power conditioner strip/surge protector.  I didn't try to plug the 2 units into different outlets but knowing how wiring is done in US homes, 2 different outlets in the same room still = same source/wire from the breaker.  Unless I run one from the kitchen and one from the room.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Unfortunately, the taboo has been shipped back so I can't test this theory out.  Still, it doesn't explain why Wav, Flac, mp3  play flawlessly and only DSDs won't.
 I tried 3 different IC cables, all shielded at different length, too.  The 2 units were placed apart at different distances anywhere from 2', 3', 6'.  I did try this.


----------



## OPR8R

I've started rolling tubes on my CSP3.  First the rectifier, because my 6DJ8's won't be here until Monday.  Once again, the 5R4GYS impresses.  It's just so smooth and refined up and down the spectrum.  I was in the camp that felt it is weak on bass, but I'm not so sure.  There's lot of extension there but it's very controlled.  I feel the stock tube is just boomy in comparison, not really more bass per se.
  
 The CSP3 has started to blossom and that makes me smile.  Everything has more energy and depth.  I'm in midrange heaven with these LCD-3's over here.  I've heard some Taboo owners like the theirs without the preamp, but I can't imagine why.  And my old phonostage doesn't compare to the ZP3, not that anyone here is that interested in vinyl gear.


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> I've started rolling tubes on my CSP3.  First the rectifier, because my 6DJ8's won't be here until Monday.  Once again, the 5R4GYS impresses.  It's just so smooth and refined up and down the spectrum.  I was in the camp that felt it is weak on bass, but I'm not so sure.  There's lot of extension there but it's very controlled.  I feel the stock tube is just boomy in comparison, not really more bass per se.
> 
> The CSP3 has started to blossom and that makes me smile.  Everything has more energy and depth.  I'm in midrange heaven with these LCD-3's over here.  I've heard some Taboo owners like the theirs without the preamp, but I can't imagine why.  And my old phonostage doesn't compare to the ZP3, not that anyone here is that interested in vinyl gear.


 
  
 Do you know what upgrades are avaliable for the CSP3? I was going to wait till the website updated but the way the list is moving I may get the CSP3 before I get to look the options over.
  
 I felt the same way about the 5R4GYS bass and quit using it for a while in favor of a Mazda 5Y3GT. I've since fell back in love with the 5R4 all over again.
 That's with the Taboo of course.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Do you know what upgrades are avaliable for the CSP3? I was going to wait till the website updated but the way the list is moving I may get the CSP3 before I get to look the options over.
> 
> I felt the same way about the 5R4GYS bass and quit using it for a while in favor of a Mazda 5Y3GT. I've since fell back in love with the 5R4 all over again.
> That's with the Taboo of course.


 
 At the time I put my order in the CSP3 hadn't been announced.  I don't know that there are any new options.  I opted for the cap upgrade and a couple other of the standard CSP2 upgrades.  I'd call before ordering otherwise you might end up doing what I did: after my preamp was done I called and asked Steve for a cap upgrade.  If you wait for the site update, the price will likely be higher.


----------



## mwindham08

I thought the CSP3 came with the Beeswax caps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My poor wallet...
  
  
 Edit: I see now in his email where it's an option. My wife is going to murder me


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> I thought the CSP3 came with the Beeswax caps...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL...  MPW ("my poor wallet"), the cry of the head-fi'er.
  
 I wouldn't use this line of rhetoric on her, but at least your hobby don't involve potential jail time.


----------



## Oskari

mwindham08 said:


> These philips tubes don't have ridges on top.
> Makes me lean towards Amperex.


 
  
 Philips ECG tubes have an entirely different pedigree. Late in the tube game, Philips bought the ECG product lines of Sylvania (including tubes). You could consider Philips ECGs the last tubes of the Sylvania breed.
  
 Amperex made a limited number of types in their Hicksville, Long Island factory but many tubes sold by them came from various European factories of the Philips group. There were no Amperex factories in the Netherlands, they were Philips factories; the UK factories were Mullard factories; and so on.


----------



## mwindham08

So what about Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys? I know alot of them say made in Holland on them. Are they really a Philips tube?
  
 Thanks for the info btw, you definitely know alot more about these things than I do.


----------



## Oskari

mwindham08 said:


> So what about Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys? I know alot of them say made in Holland on them. Are they really a Philips tube?


 
  
 Absolutely. (With the possible caveat that there might have been an occasional lot of, say, Mullards with an inaccurate "Made in Holland" label in the mix. You can't always trust what's printed on the tube.)


----------



## Argo Duck

If my wife found out about my most recent purchase (BMC PureDAC), jail time would be involved for her and hospital time for me :eek: 



opr8r said:


> LOL...  MPW ("my poor wallet"), the cry of the head-fi'er.
> 
> I wouldn't use this line of rhetoric on her, *but at least your hobby don't involve potential jail time.*


----------



## Argo Duck

Yeah, you obviously did a great job trouble-shooting this. I've no idea about DSD, but wondered if it produces different EMI byproducts (frequency and maybe intensity) than the older 'regular' formats, and that maybe your Taboo was picking this up. Well, your different distances eliminates that possibility. As well, the Decware units have pretty solid metal chassis - which would eliminate just about all the magnetic induction paths - hence my alternative speculation about cross-bleed through the power outlets.

It's certainly going to be interesting to hear what Steve finds out!



koiloco said:


> This is actually a very good recommendation.  Both at work and at home, the 2 units(DAC and amp) were technically plugged into the same wall outlet(not physically direct).  Of course, at home, they were plugged into an AV grade power conditioner strip/surge protector.  I didn't try to plug the 2 units into different outlets but knowing how wiring is done in US homes, 2 different outlets in the same room still = same source/wire from the breaker.  Unless I run one from the kitchen and one from the room.     Unfortunately, the taboo has been shipped back so I can't test this theory out.  Still, it doesn't explain why Wav, Flac, mp3  play flawlessly and only DSDs won't.
> I tried 3 different IC cables, all shielded at different length, too.  The 2 units were placed apart at different distances anywhere from 2', 3', 6'.  I did try this.


----------



## thegrobe

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DSD files have an extended frequency response and increased dynamic range? Perhaps those aspects of the analog signal are pushing faulty tubes too hard and causing crazy stuff. Maybe the tubes are okay for Redbook, mp3 , but are failing under the different signal type?

Did you try different output tubes? Did you send those tubes with the amp back to Decware?

Like I said, I had one set of stock tubes that made crazy noise at certain volume steps only. Replacements were trouble free.

Bear in mind this whole idea is based on my complete ignorance of how DSD or tube amps operate, lol.


----------



## koiloco

thegrobe said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DSD files have an extended frequency response and increased dynamic range? Perhaps those aspects of the analog signal are pushing faulty tubes too hard and causing crazy stuff. Maybe the tubes are okay for Redbook, mp3 , but are failing under the different signal type?
> 
> Did you try different output tubes? Did you send those tubes with the amp back to Decware?
> 
> ...



Dsd only playback thru USB. I was afraid of interference and noise/hum issue with he500 so I requested Steve to foil line the unit when I ordered. 
I did send all tubes back to Steve and even some sample DSD files on a disc to test.
Tubes could be the only other reason I could think of at this point. Unfortunately, I don't have any tubes to swap in to test.
About DSDs having extended FR and dynamic, I am not 100% sure but technically they must follow same engineering/design parameters as far audio output signal is concernced. Steve has the same DAC as me but doesn't have the same issue with DSD playback. We will see. I ups overnight. It wasn't cheap but I hate waiting for an answer. Steve received it today but was out of the office.


----------



## koiloco

Yahoo...Steve just emailed me. The issue is real. 
He said "it appears to be a sporadic osculation triggered by the extended bandwidth of the DSD playback". Steve is shipping out a new unit that doesn't have this issue to me on Monday. I m so glad this will be resolved cuz I love the SQ of the taboo very much. Thx all for ur input and ideas in helping me troubleshooting this.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> Yahoo...Steve just emailed me. The issue is real.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome!!
  
 Another great example of Decware customer service. I have not had any issues so far with DSD128 or DSD64 files. I wonder what Steve found in your Taboo that was unable to handle the higher res files.


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> Awesome!!
> 
> Another great example of Decware customer service. I have not had any issues so far with DSD128 or DSD64 files. I wonder what Steve found in your Taboo that was unable to handle the higher res files.



I wonder about this too.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome!!
> ...


 
  
 I hope he comments on what he finds. It is just so curious. I wonder if a part was not up to its required tolerance?


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> I hope he comments on what he finds. It is just so curious. I wonder if a part was not up to its required tolerance?



Could be cuz other taboos doesn't seem to have this problem.


----------



## longbowbbs

Shelby Lynne DSD64 on right now.....Baby that is Sweet!


----------



## M Coupe

I have a pair of LCD 2.2 on the way.  I am now amp shopping.  I am torn between the woo audio WA-6se or WA-22 and taboo III.  Can anyone give me any objective differences?  Thank you.


----------



## koiloco

I have tried my he500 on all the amps u mentioned but bought the taboo purely based on recommendation but very happy I did. Even though, I m going thru a lot of hassle for it right now. Taboo is more than a fully upgraded wa6se so try them out first if u can. IMO, taboo sounds a lot more tube than wa6se. Wa6se has a more aggressive sound which might pair better with lcd2.2 if that is the sound u r after. Gluck.


----------



## OPR8R

Glad you got that worked out, koiloco.


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> New gear day.  Lot of breaking in to do.  Will post impressions in a few days or so.  Here's pictures.  Decware from left to right, CSP3+, ZP3, and now almost half a year old, Taboo MKIII.


 
  
 Are these all walnut? If so is the difference in color very drastic?


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> Glad you got that worked out, koiloco.


 
  
 Thx bud. I am glad too. Steve and Decware's customer service and communication are first rate.  Doing business with people like that ,  I don't mind having a little trouble with the taboo.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's also good for Steve to learn about this too.  Maybe, he'll include DSD playback as a new QC test from now on.  DSDs seem to gain support and popularity nicely.  It made a believer out of me for sure and I had quite a few SACD before.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Are these all walnut? If so is the difference in color very drastic?


 
  
 Unfortunately, yes.  Pretty drastic. It seems like they're got a new source for the bases.  It's probably the only thing I'm disappointed with at this point.


----------



## mwindham08

That's disappointing I was planning on putting the csp3 beside the taboo like you have, never thought about them not matching.
  
 My taboo is really dark like yours and I really like that shade of walnut. 
 I guess if you got the black figured base that would be the same but that one definitely isn't my favorite base.
 They wouldnt fit tightly together either.


----------



## koiloco

mwindham08 said:


> That's disappointing I was planning on putting the csp3 beside the taboo like you have, never thought about them not matching.
> 
> My taboo is really dark like yours and I really like that shade of walnut.
> I guess if you got the black figured base that would be the same but that one definitely isn't my favorite base.
> They wouldnt fit tightly together either.



It's not hard to sand down and recoat/varnish to your desired color that will match.


----------



## longbowbbs

My two Maple are the same shade....


----------



## M Coupe

Looks like a Wired 4 Sound Dac you have.  Those are nice.  I used to have one and always loved it.
  
 Regarding color, I agree...sand/stain it to match if it bugs you.


----------



## longbowbbs

m coupe said:


> Looks like a Wired 4 Sound Dac you have.  Those are nice.  I used to have one and always loved it.
> 
> Regarding color, I agree...sand/stain it to match if it bugs you.


 
  
 I loved the DAC-2. The DSDse upgrade made something really good, Great!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Eric, got the BMC PureDAC in house. Early days, but sounds remarkable with the LCD2 and my Taboo II. There's a new layer of upper bass and midrange body and detail not hinted at with my other DACs - or else my audio memory is playing tricks 

Nice to know the Decware gear keeps scaling with the equipment around it.


----------



## longbowbbs

That looks like a great DAC Andre! I love how a good source can peel back the layers....


----------



## OPR8R

m coupe said:


> Looks like a Wired 4 Sound Dac you have.  Those are nice.  I used to have one and always loved it.
> 
> Regarding color, I agree...sand/stain it to match if it bugs you.


 
 Yep, good eye.  It's a great DAC.  I couldn't be happier with it.
  
 If it comes to the point that I'm really annoyed, I might sand/stain.  For now, I don't really care enough to do anything about it.  I have about 5 different wood tones going on in my little corner.


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> Yep, good eye.  It's a great DAC.  I couldn't be happier with it.
> 
> If it comes to the point that I'm really annoyed, I might sand/stain.  For now, I don't really care enough to do anything about it.  I have about 5 different wood tones going on in my little corner.


 
  
 Only 5 different tones?  You are missing only to have your own rainbow corner!  well, what r u waitin for?


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Only 5 different tones?  You are missing only to have your own rainbow corner!  well, what r u waitin for?


 
  
 Wait, more like 6 or 7.  I forgot the wood on my headphones and headphone stand.  They're both zebrano wood, but are different too.  I should just drop everything in a bucket of black paint.


----------



## longbowbbs

So tonight the Taboo is working wonders with my DM945's. 4.7 watts of awesomeness!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> So tonight the Taboo is working wonders with my DM945's. 4.7 watts of awesomeness!


 
  
 longbowbbs,  what is the official output power for speaker taps on the taboo MK III?  I scanned thru the manual but didn't see the specs.
 Thinking about gettin the woo audio wee and play around with some stax to see if I like the sound.  The wee requires amps that output at least 3 watts at speaker output.


----------



## longbowbbs

According to Decware, the Taboo MK III produces 4.7 watts at 8 ohms from the speaker terminals. All 4.7 are sounding particularly nice this evening....


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> According to Decware, the Taboo MK III produces 4.7 watts at 8 ohms from the speaker terminals. All 4.7 are sounding particularly nice this evening....


 
  
 Great to know.  That's plenty to drive the Wee.


----------



## Charnwood

Negura is using his Taboo Mk3 to drive a Wee.


----------



## koiloco

charnwood said:


> Negura is using his Taboo Mk3 to drive a Wee.


 
 Thx.  I'll PM him.


----------



## OPR8R

I think I'm done rolling tubes in the CSP3+, that is I'm happy with the sound, for now anyway.  5R4GYS in the rectifier spot, and one Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 in the input spot, and stock 6N1P output tubes.
  
The rectifier change seems to have made the biggest difference, but the result is the CSP3+/Taboo 3 combo has more weight and texture across the spectrum, and to my ears a more defined soundstage (with LCD-3's) than just the Taboo 3 alone.  This isn't very technical, but I'm feeling more of the music now, not just the bass.
  
 It's so funny the break-in period with these Decware amps.  1) Oh no, this is it?  2) Well, this is better, or maybe I'm just getting used to it? 3) OMG wow!!


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> I think I'm done rolling tubes in the CSP3+, that is I'm happy with the sound, for now anyway.  5R4GYS in the rectifier spot, and one Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 in the input spot, and stock 6N1P output tubes.
> 
> The rectifier change seems to have made the biggest difference, but the result is the CSP3+/Taboo 3 combo has more weight and texture across the spectrum, and to my ears a more defined soundstage (with LCD-3's) than just the Taboo 3 alone.  This isn't very technical, but I'm feeling more of the music now, not just the bass.
> 
> It's so funny the break-in period with these Decware amps.  1) Oh no, this is it?  2) Well, this is better, or maybe I'm just getting used to it? 3) OMG wow!!


 
  
 lol, we are boys with toys, aren't we?


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> lol, we are boys with toys, aren't we?


 
 We sure are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm afraid it's more like people with an addiction to music (or gear for some), but let's not go there


----------



## koiloco

opr8r said:


> We sure are
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I feel you.  Btw, I just talked to Steve.  My taboo won't be shipped today.  Steve is building a completely new one from scratch to avoid any possible issue.  As far as the sporadic osculation, Steve doesn't know why it happens either at this point.  When he finds out, he'll let me know.
 New unit is scheduled to go out Thursday or sooner.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> I feel you.  Btw, I just talked to Steve.  My taboo won't be shipped today.  Steve is building a completely new one from scratch to avoid any possible issue.  As far as the sporadic osculation, Steve doesn't know why it happens either at this point.  When he finds out, he'll let me know.
> New unit is scheduled to go out Thursday or sooner.


 
  
 That's cool.  I'm sure he'll pay special attention to yours.  We're probably all a little weird here, but I wonder how many other Taboo users have listened to DSD's.


----------



## mwindham08

Shoot out!


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Shoot out!


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > I feel you.  Btw, I just talked to Steve.  My taboo won't be shipped today.  Steve is building a completely new one from scratch to avoid any possible issue.  As far as the sporadic osculation, Steve doesn't know why it happens either at this point.  When he finds out, he'll let me know.
> ...


 
  
 Me Me!!


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> It's so funny the break-in period with these Decware amps.  1) Oh no, this is it?  2) Well, this is better, or maybe I'm just getting used to it? 3) OMG wow!!


 
 This pretty much sums up my experience. I was a little worried when I first got the amp (I didn't realize single ended input had to have old lucid mode on). The last like 2 or 3 weeks though it just seems like the amp sounds significantly better. Hasn't stopped me from tube rolling, but I always come back to my original setup after a while.
  
 I've found that when the metal beside the rectifier tube is good and warm the amp really starts sounding good. Not sure if that's where the beeswax caps are and they are just fully warmed up but it seems to make a big difference.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> Me Me!!


 
  
 Yes, our enjoyment of DSD's has been well documented


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Me Me!!
> ...


 
  
 Me Me Me!!!....um...sorry, I just got carried away....BY DSD128 BABY!


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> I think I'm done rolling tubes in the CSP3+, that is I'm happy with the sound, for now anyway.  5R4GYS in the rectifier spot, and one Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 in the input spot, and stock [COLOR=000000]6N1P output tubes.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=000000]The rectifier change seems to have made the biggest difference, but the result is the CSP3+/Taboo 3 combo has more weight and texture across the spectrum, and to my ears a more defined soundstage (with LCD-3's) than just the Taboo 3 alone.[/COLOR]  This isn't very technical, but I'm feeling more of the music now, not just the bass.
> 
> It's so funny the break-in period with these Decware amps.  1) Oh no, this is it?  2) Well, this is better, or maybe I'm just getting used to it? 3) OMG wow!!




I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the Phillips 5R4GYS in the CSP3. Especially with the LCD-3. I just ordered two more, hoping it would work as well in the CSP as the taboo. Judging from your comment, it sounds promising.

Yes, the burn in is interesting. About a week or so ago, I had a couple nights listening sessions where things just went a bit "blah" for lack of a better term. Then all the sudden the next night, with no other changes, WOW! Everything sounded better than it ever had. I guess the v-caps got over a break-in hump. Unfortunately, ha ha, I have a new pair of beeswax caps sitting here waiting to swap in because I can't stop messing with stuff.



mwindham08 said:


> Shoot out!




Cool! What all do you have there? I recognize the one.


----------



## koiloco

You guys can't imagine my face when I heard the horrid noise from the taboo when I first played my DSDs. It was not pleasant.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> You guys can't imagine my face when I heard the horrid noise from the taboo when I first played my DSDs. It was not pleasant.


 
  
 I can.  I felt real badly for you.  Glad it's behind you (almost).  You know Steve will test DSD's before he ships it.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the Phillips 5R4GYS in the CSP3. Especially with the LCD-3. I just ordered two more, hoping it would work as well in the CSP as the taboo. Judging from your comment, it sounds promising.


 
 When I first plugged the Philips in the CSP3 it sounded like utter crap.  A few hours later it was doing it's 5R4GYS thing.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> thegrobe said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the Phillips 5R4GYS in the CSP3. Especially with the LCD-3. I just ordered two more, hoping it would work as well in the CSP as the taboo. Judging from your comment, it sounds promising.
> ...


 
  
 My favorite Rectifiers after the 596....


----------



## thegrobe

longbowbbs said:


> My favorite Rectifiers after the 596....




Believe me, I want to try one. Or two. Whenever I can find one...


----------



## longbowbbs

I was lucky to grab them a year ago. They seem to have dried up lately.


----------



## mwindham08

thegrobe said:


> Cool! What all do you have there? I recognize the one.


 
 Well I of course have the Phillips 5rR4GYS. I also have a RCA and General Electric 5R4GYS.
  
 I have pretty much settled on this being my favorite rectifier type so I thought it would be fun to see if there is any differences within the family.
 It's going to take me a while to formulate some impressions, I have two very busy weeks ahead of me.
  
 I have to say though it's going to be pretty hard for the RCA or GE to top the Phillips tube.
 However, it would be nice to have some alternatives in case the Philips ever become hard to find/expensive.
 I bought both these tubes for the price of 1 philips so they are already cheaper.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Well I of course have the Phillips 5rR4GYS. I also have a RCA and General Electric 5R4GYS.
> 
> I have pretty much settled on this being my favorite rectifier type so I thought it would be fun to see if there is any differences within the family.
> It's going to take me a while to formulate some impressions, I have two very busy weeks ahead of me.
> ...


 
  
 It's always good to have a plan B.


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> Well I of course have the Phillips 5rR4GYS. I also have a RCA and General Electric 5R4GYS.
> 
> I have pretty much settled on this being my favorite rectifier type so I thought it would be fun to see if there is any differences within the family.
> It's going to take me a while to formulate some impressions, I have two very busy weeks ahead of me.
> ...




Good stuff, I look forward to hearing your impressions. I also have a Mazda 5Y3GB on the way, should be fun to try.


----------



## koiloco

thegrobe said:


> Good stuff, I look forward to hearing your impressions. I also have a *Mazda *5Y3GB on the way, should be fun to try.


 
 does it come in turbo like the RX-8?


----------



## mwindham08

koiloco said:


> does it come in turbo like the RX-8?


 
  
 It makes your music go zoom zoom zoom


----------



## koiloco

mwindham08 said:


> It makes your music go zoom zoom zoom


 








  You got that right!


----------



## thegrobe

The Mazda tube may be turbo RX-8 zoom zoom style, or it could be a busted up old pickup truck.....we will see. I read a couple favorable mentions of it here and there, so hopefully it's decent.
  
 The CSP3 is in the house! 
  
 Kind of a bummer though it was supposed to be dual 4 pin XLR jacks and instead it arrived with 1/4" headphone jacks....Not the end of the world, but kind of a minor annoyance. I can change them out myself a lot easier then sending the amp back I guess, 
  
 Anyway, a couple quick pictures, my photo skills are nothing special but it looks beautiful. The cherry on the Taboo is nice but the walnut on the CSP is just as good. I didn't spring for the cherry base to match because I plan on making my own custom bases.


----------



## koiloco

Oooh, it looks nice.  Too bad about the XLR vs 1/4" mix up.


----------



## OPR8R

Looking good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Send that baby back if you paid for XLR though... Or get a credit, maybe.


----------



## longbowbbs

I wish you could get one SE and one 4 pin XLR....


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> Looking good
> 
> Send that baby back if you paid for XLR though... Or get a credit, maybe.




Well, the xlr option was no cost, so technically I didn't pay for it. I've got an e-mail in to Decware to inform them. 




longbowbbs said:


> I wish you could get one SE and one 4 pin XLR....




I guess I could by changing it myself ha ha. 

Actually when I was ordering I spoke to Steve about it and he said the choice to not mix the output jacks was basically because it looked lopsided or unbalanced. I got the feeling that if you really insisted, he would build it with mixed jacks. I still chose double XLR.


----------



## koiloco

A very sad day for me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I got a response from Steve this morning about my Taboo.  Below is Steve's response.  I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it so any Taboo MKIII owners thinking about getting the TEAC UD501 DAC for DSD playback might consider other options.
  
"I wanted to update you on the status of your Taboo MK III.   We did in fact build you a brand new unit and were quite surprised to find it did exactly the same thing as your original unit with respect to the super audio files on the Teac Dac.   
 
After a long evening, I found that the Taboo MKIII does NOT in fact have ANY parasitic oscillations.  This bizarre deal with the Teac DAC has fooled everyone on my staff, including myself, into thinking it must be the Taboo since the DAC works fine with other amplifiers.  After tracing things out with the scope we were able to confirm that the static sound is in fact originating inside the DAC, not the TABOO.
 
Why being connected to the Taboo causes this apparent defect in the DAC (which is tied to the FIR filters as you can hear it change when adjusting them) is a mystery to me right now,* as is the fact that it does not happen on our Sample TABOO from which we build from.*
 
I plan to continue trying to find out over the next few days, but there is a good possibility that I will not be able to justify spending too much more time troubleshooting another manufactures defect leaving the worse case scenario that the two are simply incompatible."
  
 I have cancelled the order awaiting whether Steve could find a solution for this.  Thx all for your input/support in this problem.


----------



## mwindham08

That sucks, I can understand both yours and steves viewpoints though. Hopefully you will find something that suits your DAC/tastes.
  
 On a brighter note I got my DM945's today. So far it's sounding really great with the Taboo.  They are definitely as step up over
 my LSA-1 monitors which are now on ebay lol.
  
 My wife could immediately tell an improvement which is the ultimate test.


----------



## longbowbbs

mwindham08 said:


> On a brighter note I got my DM945's today. So far it's sounding really great with the Taboo.  They are definitely as step up over
> my LSA-1 monitors which are now on ebay lol.
> 
> My wife could immediately tell an improvement which is the ultimate test.


 
 I knew you would like them!


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> A very sad day for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What a bummber.  I'm not sure I understand any of this still, but I know it must be disappointing.  If you ever find yourself in the market for a DAC upgrade, I recommend Wyred4Sound's DAC-2.  Hopefully there is still a solution that'll work with your TEAC and the Taboo.  Like I said before, I really like the TEAC line.
  


mwindham08 said:


> On a brighter note I got my DM945's today. So far it's sounding really great with the Taboo.  They are definitely as step up over
> my LSA-1 monitors which are now on ebay lol.
> 
> My wife could immediately tell an improvement which is the ultimate test.


 
  
 I have my eye on the same pair of speakers.  How long will I be able to stay off the list?  I have to exercise a little restraint at some point, don't I?


----------



## thegrobe

Oh man Koiloco, that sucks. Hopefully you find something else that works - or keeping fingers crossed maybe if Steve fiddles with it a bit more some surprise solution will arise. Well best of luck.
  
 I had my first good long listening session last night with the CSP3/Taboo - Let's just say I'm very tired today. I couldn't go to bed. I won't go into lots of words here because it's the honeymoon and the CSP is of course far from broken in. But I will say....initial impressions are very very good. It adds a lot to the system. I expect positive changes as it burns in, but as it sits it's impressive. 
  
 At first, with the stock tubes it was a little too smooth and warm for my tastes but I swapped in the 5R4GYS rectifier and one JAN Sylvania 6922 in the front, left the two 6N1P's there and let it run for about 6 hours. That brought it closer to ideal. Very clear, liquid and 3D-ish. That 6922 was extremely microphonic in that spot though so I put in a Electro Harmonix 6922 and it's a lot quieter but a bit less clear. I need to get another Genelex 6922 ASAP for the front of the CSP3, that's my plan. 
  
 Anyway If I keep typing I'll start gushing nonsense so I'll shut up. Glad to have the CSP in the chain.


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> I have my eye on the same pair of speakers.  How long will I be able to stay off the list?  I have to exercise a little restraint at some point, don't I?


 
 They are perfect for my size room, roughly 10x12. Definitely request the 8 ohm versions though. They will pair well with your setup, certaintly do with just the taboo. I'm sure the rest of your decware equipment will add even more. 
  
 If you don't start showing some restraint steve is going to start sending customers to your house to demo equipment!
  


longbowbbs said:


> I knew you would like them!


 
 You were absolutely right I'm really enjoyng them! The 8 ohm versions get plenty loud with the taboo. Not as loud as my 125 watt monos but I lose a lot of detail and presentation with them.
 I can't wait to see what effect the CSP3 has in the chain. 
 I've been breaking in the GE 5R4GY with the speakers and it's been alot of fun so far.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> A very sad day for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sad day....Every once in awhile gear just does not work together. Frankly, I would dump the Teac and keep the Taboo....There are other good DSD DAC's out there, but everyone has to go with their needs and interests.


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> Sad day....Every once in awhile gear just does not work together. Frankly, I would dump the Teac and keep the Taboo....There are other good DSD DAC's out there, but everyone has to go with their needs and interests.


 
 I am seriously thinking about this option, longbowbbs cuz I really the SQ from the Taboo.  I did listen to several Woo amps but for some reasons didn't open up to them.  Any of you had any experience with WA6 SE or WA22 personally?


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Sad day....Every once in awhile gear just does not work together. Frankly, I would dump the Teac and keep the Taboo....There are other good DSD DAC's out there, but everyone has to go with their needs and interests.
> ...


 
  
 Not me. I love their look, but have not had the opportunity. Clearly they are also highly regarded here on Head-Fi. If I ever got to a meet I would bring the Decware just to do a side by side with one of the Woo's.


----------



## mwindham08

koiloco said:


> I am seriously thinking about this option, longbowbbs cuz I really the SQ from the Taboo.  I did listen to several Woo amps but for some reasons didn't open up to them.  Any of you had any experience with WA6 SE or WA22 personally?


 
  
 While I didn't own the WA22 I did own the WA2. I think macedonian hero and maybe a few others have compared them as they are pretty simliar. 
  
 In my opinion I think the Taboo is a much better amp. With the Taboo I feel like I get a tube amps mids and treble and yet still get the bass
 slam and detail associated with solid state amps. The Taboo also has a speed that I never associated with the WA2 .
 The WA2 is a classic tube amp, warm mids, soft bass, and great treble. It is a very mellow amp and judging from comparisons, so is the WA22. 
  
 I always thought the Taboo was aptly named because it has a sound signature that is not like a stereotypical tube amp.
 If you want an amp that has all the steotypes of what a tube amp should sound like, go for the WA2/22.
 The WA2 was a fantastic amp don't get me wrong, my personal tastes just prefer the presentation of the Taboo.


----------



## Pentode Guy

([/quote]





koiloco said:


> Dsd only playback thru USB. I was afraid of interference and noise/hum issue with he500 so I requested Steve to foil line the unit when I ordered.
> I did send all tubes back to Steve and even some sample DSD files on a disc to test.
> Tubes could be the only other reason I could think of at this point. Unfortunately, I don't have any tubes to swap in to test.
> About DSDs having extended FR and dynamic, I am not 100% sure but technically they must follow same engineering/design parameters as far audio output signal is concernced. Steve has the same DAC as me but doesn't have the same issue with DSD playback. We will see. I ups overnight. It wasn't cheap but I hate waiting for an answer. Steve received it today but was out of the office.




I thought Steve has the same DAC but doesn't have the same issue with DSD playback.


----------



## koiloco

pentode guy said:


> (


 I thought Steve has the same DAC but doesn't have the same issue with DSD playback.[/quote]

  
 Yup, only with his sample build he doesn't have the problem for some reasons.  He even built me a brand new unit but the new unit suffers the same issue when tested.
 Steve has the same TEAC UD501 DSD DAC as I do.


----------



## Charnwood

I suppose the TEAC UD501 DSD saga proves one thing and that is the Taboo lets you hear everything the source has to offer.


----------



## OPR8R

It turns out running Amarra and Audirvana together can be tricky and lead to frustration.  I tried to listen to Rachmaninov 2 (DSD64) last night but it took me an hour to get it working because switching from one player to another made the Audio MIDI settings get all jacked up.  By the time I got Audirvana + my DAC working, I was tired and fell asleep during the second movement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   There was some tense moments before the sonic joy, though.  I thought I was going to be one of those guys who couldn't get Audirvana working and that I was going to have to drop more coin on a third player, just for DSD playback.  Why can't Amarra support DSD's?


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> It turns out running Amarra and Audirvana together can be tricky and lead to frustration.  I tried to listen to Rachmaninov 2 (DSD64) last night but it took me an hour to get it working because switching from one player to another made the Audio MIDI settings get all jacked up.  By the time I got Audirvana + my DAC working, I was tired and fell asleep during the second movement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They have said it is in the works...Changing players always causes problems. They all want control of the system.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> They have said it is in the works...


 
 Can't wait.  I prefer the way Amarra sounds, though I do sort of like Audrivana's interface.

 I've been skipping digital a lot lately anyway.  With the ZP3 broken in and tubes upgraded, vinyl sounds better in most cases.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > They have said it is in the works...
> ...


 
  
 Sweet setup with the entire Decware suite!


----------



## koiloco

Well, the sound of the taboo got me spell-bound.  So I have decided to :
  

Keep my TEAC DSD DAC
Have the taboo shipped back to me.
Get the CSP3 to use as pre-amp.  Steve guaranteed that this would work perfectly and at the same time further enhances the taboo's SQ.
  
 Until the CSP3 arrives, I will just live without DSD for a while.  
  
 Well,  I am home...again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS:  Steve did test the DSD playback from the TEAC DAC on all of his amps.  They all have the same problem=> something in the DAC causing this during DSD playback.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Well, the sound of the taboo got me spell-bound.  So I have decided to :
> 
> 
> Keep my TEAC DSD DAC
> ...




You chose well, my friend


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco, I know you will be happy with this choice! Congratulations!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> koiloco, I know you will be happy with this choice! Congratulations!


 
  
 To be honest, the only reason I decided to have the taboo shipped back is because.....It fits perfectly on top of my Emotiva Mini-X.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


  





  At least, that's what I told my wife.


----------



## WNBC

I've never heard a DSD file.  Am I missing out?  I see that Schiit now puts out a DSD and switch boxy thing.  And of course will it work straight into the Taboo considering koiloco had issues.


----------



## koiloco

wnbc said:


> I've never heard a DSD file.  Am I missing out?  I see that Schiit now puts out a DSD and switch boxy thing.  And of course will it work straight into the Taboo considering koiloco had issues.


 
  
 There's only 1 way to find out.    at least, it's only $150?  you can always return it also.  Regarding DSDs, it's quite quite impressive.   You should try it out.


----------



## WNBC

Definitely thinking about the Loki esp. now that JRiver supports Mac and it can DSD.  But then that money could go towards tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Getting excited about the Alpha Dogs shipping next week and trying the balanced headphone out of the Taboo.    
  
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> There's only 1 way to find out.    at least, it's only $150?  you can always return it also.  Regarding DSDs, it's quite quite impressive.   You should try it out.


----------



## koiloco

You will love the AD. I tried it quite a bit n liked it a lot.


----------



## mwindham08

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 You can't be subscribed to the AD thread very long and not be excited about it. 
  
 He showed a picture of the headphone stand and when I came back there was like 3 pages of comments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I'm not even getting the AD anytime soon and I can't wait for it to come out!


----------



## koiloco

mwindham08 said:


> You can't be subscribed to the AD thread very long and not be excited about it.
> 
> He showed a picture of the headphone stand and when I came back there was like 3 pages of comments
> 
> ...


 
 Dan does know how to get people hyped up and yes, that thread is beyond hyping with quite a few fanboys making it even more extreme.


----------



## WNBC

I never pre-order anything but I did this time.  I figured it would be the last closed headphone I'll need for a long time.  If they don't live up to the hype I can sell them easily.  However, I'm pretty sure I'll be hanging onto them.  I like my own modded T50RP with the Taboo so I imagine the ADs take it to the next level.  If not then back to the LCD-2s and HE-500s I've owned in the past.  Fun trying new headphones.  I like the Grado 225i but the sensitivity is too high and the background is no longer black.  
  
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Dan does know how to get people hyped up and yes, that thread is beyond hyping with quite a few fanboys making it even more extreme.


----------



## koiloco

wnbc said:


>


 
 WNBC, AD is nice.  Plain and simple.  You don't have to worry.


----------



## thegrobe

koiloco said:


> Well, the sound of the taboo got me spell-bound.  So I have decided to :
> 
> 
> Keep my TEAC DSD DAC
> ...




The CSP3 is fantastic, and the Taboo is fantastic. The pair together is even more so. I'm finding the flexibility and sound just ...great...for lack of a better word. 

Great choice!


----------



## OPR8R

I heard AD's through a Schiit Mjolnir.  They were very good.  If I didn't already have a set of planars I probably would've pre-ordered that day.  To me, they are a clear upgrade over MD's.


----------



## mwindham08

thegrobe said:


> The CSP3 is fantastic, and the Taboo is fantastic. The pair together is even more so. I'm finding the flexibility and sound just ...great...for lack of a better word.
> 
> Great choice!


Ca


I just got the parts pulled email for my csp3!not much longer now!


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Ca
> 
> 
> I just got the parts pulled email for my csp3!not much longer now!


 
  
 That email has got to be one of the most awesome things ever.  Congrats.


----------



## mwindham08

I just checked the list though and they are short on bases.... Again! Hopefully it won't take too long to get some more in. Thanks


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> I just checked the list though and they are short on bases.... Again! Hopefully it won't take too long to get some more in. Thanks


 
  
 I wonder what's going on with those.  That whole base situation seems a bit off lately.  They keep backing up, and the new ones a clearly different.  Good luck.


----------



## WNBC

Indeed.  I have an early Taboo MKIII and a recent CSP3+.  The Taboo wood is darker than the CSP.  I'll give my CSP a tan next summer.  I guess we can't expect the wood to be always similar unless Steve has one tree for each type of wood and these trees can regenerate.    
  
 Out of curiosity, how easy is it to swap out the bases on our own?  If I bought 2 cherry bases from Steve now they would be more likely to be color matched.  Maybe Steve would buy my walnut bases if those are the ones in shortage.
  
  
 Quote:


opr8r said:


> I wonder what's going on with those.  That whole base situation seems a bit off lately.  They keep backing up, and the new ones a clearly different.  Good luck.


----------



## OPR8R

As I understand it, swapping bases should be pretty easy.
  
 My opinion is that the old bases are nicer looking.  It seems like more care was given to the finishes, but I'm pretty much just as ignorant about wood working as I am electrical engineering.  And since the insides sound amazing, I'm pretty happy for now.


----------



## WNBC

Same here.  No real worries about the color of the bases.  Proper lighting in the room for tube amp is fairly dim so you can't even see the color of the wood anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Quote:


opr8r said:


> As I understand it, swapping bases should be pretty easy.
> 
> My opinion is that the old bases are nicer looking.  It seems like more care was given to the finishes, but I'm pretty much just as ignorant about wood working as I am electrical engineering.  And since the insides sound amazing, I'm pretty happy for now.


----------



## longbowbbs

Well folks, I have the Taboo MK III up for sale. I scored a deal on my current dream amp, a Cary SLI-80 and the Taboo has to go.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683444/mint-decware-taboo-mk-iii-class-a-single-ended-pentode-amplifier
  
 Decware forum fans will get extra tubes besides stock. This is not on the ads which are posted here, on Ebay and on Audiogon.....
  
 I can't let go of the CSP2+ yet. We'll see.
  
 This is NOT a sale due to any issue with the Taboo. It rocks. But the Cary is an aspirational piece for me.


----------



## OPR8R

longbowbbs said:


> Well folks, I have the Taboo MK III up for sale. I scored a deal on my current dream amp, a Cary SLI-80 and the Taboo has to go.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683444/mint-decware-taboo-mk-iii-class-a-single-ended-pentode-amplifier
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  Good luck on the sale.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Well folks, I have the Taboo MK III up for sale. I scored a deal on my current dream amp, a Cary SLI-80 and the Taboo has to go.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks OPR8R. I am curious to see how the market is for the Taboo. I think I have a good deal for someone.


----------



## koiloco

Hi tube rollers for taboo :
  
 Have anyone tried the Sophia on taboo? Sophia is a direct replacement , right?  I saw this on Woo audio's website :
  
Sophia Electric™ 274B tube is a premium rectifier tube for a 5U4/5R4/5AR4 direct replacement with 3X longer plate structure, thus it has a deeper, wider sound stage and even smoothier sound than Mullard 5AR4.


----------



## longbowbbs

That tube will be a drop in replacement for the stock rectifier. The mesh version would be super cool in the dark too!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> That tube will be a drop in replacement for the stock rectifier. The mesh version would be super cool in the dark too!


 
  
 Thx bud.  I will probably try it.  Steve emailed today.  He has gone thru my taboo and given everything 1 last check.  It's being shipped back to me on Monday.
 The CSP3 would probably take a few more weeks at least.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That tube will be a drop in replacement for the stock rectifier. The mesh version would be super cool in the dark too!
> ...


 
  
 Fortunately, you can get to know the Taboo on its own. You will enjoy incorporating the CSP3+ into the family.


----------



## koiloco

I looked at your taboo pictures.  What is the rectifier with the green wire in the pic?


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> I wonder what's going on with those.  That whole base situation seems a bit off lately.  They keep backing up, and the new ones a clearly different.  Good luck.


 
  
 I have a cherry base on the Taboo, from around June 2013, and a walnut base that just came on the CSP. They are different in construction. The cherry base has a rabbet joint at the corners, with the front panel the full width of the base. The walnut base has a miter joint at the corners, like a picture frame type joint. The rabbet joint is probably stronger but really probably doesn't make a difference. It's not a high-stress application, lol. Different methods....something changed I guess
  
 I plan on making some custom bases for my amps, as soon as I get around to it. If anyone is interested I may be able to make some for others. The woods I have on hand right now are bird's eye maple, bloodwood, kingswood, quarter sawn oak, purpleheart, walnut and maybe a couple others. Anyone with a walnut base want to swap for my cherry base? It would be nice to have mine match until I get around to making some. 
  
 WNBC- the bases are very easy to swap out, a few screws on top and the amp comes right off. 
  
 Longbow- good luck with the sale, it should be a no-brainer for someone to pick that up quickly. 
  
 On another note, I have had the French made Mazda 5Y3GB in place of the Philips 5R4GYS rectifier in the CSP3 for a day or so. Too early to give any sound impressions because it needs to burn in for some time. Also tube rolling is a bit overwhelming with 8 tubes in play in the pre/taboo. I may have to roll it into the Taboo after it's broken in and listen to just the Taboo to really get some worthwhile impressions to share.  
  
 But I can say one thing  - - - 
 DAMN this tube is beautiful! It's hard to get good pics, but this is the best I can do. Much better in person.


----------



## WNBC

Just noticed your observation.  My Taboo has one joint type and the CSP3 has a different type.  Both are walnut wood.  
  
 When you get around to making these bases show us pictures.   
  
 Would it be all 8 outside screws on the top plate we need to remove to swap out the base?  Maybe I missed these directions in the manual.  
  
 In this thread one poster called the Mazda sound more "solid state like".  I do like those bottle type tubes.  Makes me want to order a Sophia Electric or EML for that soul glow.
  
 http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1329600301
  
  
  
 Quote:


----------



## longbowbbs

Interesting...My CSP2+ and Taboo MK III have the same joint in Maple. It is a rabbit joint I think....Been awhile. It is not a mitre joint.
  
 thegrobe, thanks for the good wishes. We'll see how the market looks these days.


----------



## mwindham08

I'm actually glad I've had the Taboo by itself for a while. It's given me  time to learn its voicing and figure out which tubes I like.
 I think when I get my CSP3 I may just put it's stock tubes in for a while just to get used to it. 
  
 I really like the Mazda 5y3gb, its a lively tube to be sure. Did you get yours off ebay? A seller there had alot of them for like 30-40 dollars if I remember correctly.


----------



## bearFNF

This difference in bases may have something to do with the woodworker having a heart attack back in April maybe?


----------



## Pentode Guy

longbowbbs said:


> Well folks, I have the Taboo MK III up for sale. I scored a deal on my current dream amp, a Cary SLI-80 and the Taboo has to go.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683444/mint-decware-taboo-mk-iii-class-a-single-ended-pentode-amplifier
> 
> ...



So sad to hear this. 
I hope you won't regret selling the Taboo.


----------



## longbowbbs

pentode guy said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Well folks, I have the Taboo MK III up for sale. I scored a deal on my current dream amp, a Cary SLI-80 and the Taboo has to go.
> ...


 
  
 Probably....But I have the Cary inbound for next Saturday delivery. Think of it this way, the Cary is priced 3X with it's upgrades what the Taboo costs so the Taboo is punching way above it's weight class. No shame in that. The Taboo is a fantastic value!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> Probably....But I have the Cary inbound for next Saturday delivery. Think of it this way, the Cary is priced 3X with it's upgrades what the Taboo costs so the Taboo is punching way above it's weight class. No shame in that. The Taboo is a fantastic value!


 
  
 That SLI 80 is a beast...so much power.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am enjoying the Taboo this weekend. I swapped out the 596 for the stock 274B. I will always enjoy the 596, but Steve really picks great stock tubes. I appreciate that you can use easy to find and inexpensive tubes and get great sound from this amp. It is a nice change from some of the very expensive tubes I see discussed around Head-Fi.


----------



## mwindham08

Has anyone compared the Philips Mullard vs Philips valvo el84s? I've got the amperex and valvo labeled Philips tubes but I can't help wondering how the higher priced mullard branding sounds.


----------



## thegrobe

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 Hmm..for some reason the quote function isn't working properly. Not quoting your text, just your username. Anyway, you asked about the screws to remove the bases, yes, the outer 8 screws. Then grab the transformer and lift the amp right off. I recommend removing the tubes first then you can lay the amp upside town on a towel or something. 


mwindham08 said:


>


 
  
 You asked about the Mazda tubes. They came from Tubeman - same seller as eBay but I bought them direct, a bit cheaper. But now I just looked at the website and the price went up! Now it's the same as eBay.  
  
  


bearfnf said:


> This difference in bases may have something to do with the woodworker having a heart attack back in April maybe?


 
  
 Oh, your quote worked..strange...Yeah, that probably has something to do with it! I had no idea, I hope he's okay. Is he?


----------



## bearFNF

thegrobe said:


> Oh, your quote worked..strange...Yeah, that probably has something to do with it! I had no idea, I hope he's okay. Is he?


 
  
 Last I heard a few months ago was that he was recovering...Have not heard anything since then, though.
  
 Yeah the quote function some times gets wonky...


----------



## OPR8R

New (NOS) signal tubes.  They're beautiful.  I took a quick listen before I set them off to burn in, and was impressed right out of the box.
  

  
 Telefunken E88CC/6922


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> New (NOS) signal tubes.  They're beautiful.  I took a quick listen before I set them off to burn in, and was impressed right out of the box.
> 
> 
> 
> Telefunken E8CC/6922


 
  
 I bet you paid a pretty penny for those, they look great! 
 You will have to give us some impressions when you get the chance.
  
 Did you get them for the CSP3?


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> I bet you paid a pretty penny for those, they look great!
> You will have to give us some impressions when you get the chance.
> 
> Did you get them for the CSP3?


 
 Not yet for the output position.  Just for the signal spot in the Taboo and CSP3.
  
 I think they're a pretty good buy for NOS at Upscaleaudio.  Relatively, anyway.  I get a little tired of trying to find good used tubes that are exactly what I expect.


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> Not yet for the output position.  Just for the signal spot in the Taboo and CSP3.
> 
> I think they're a pretty good buy for NOS at Upscaleaudio.  Relatively, anyway.  I get a little tired of trying to find good used tubes that are exactly what I expect.


 
  
 For the quality you get upscale's price isn't that bad, alot better than the auctions I saw on ebay. 
  
 I just got some Mullard and siemens EL84's that I'm really enjoying so far. 
 Alot more bass presence than the Amperex/Philips brand. .
 Might be a bit too much though for my tastes, haven't made up my mind yet.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> For the quality you get upscale's price isn't that bad, alot better than the auctions I saw on ebay.
> 
> I just got some Mullard and siemens EL84's that I'm really enjoying so far.
> Alot more bass presence than the Amperex/Philips brand. .
> Might be a bit too much though for my tastes, haven't made up my mind yet.


 
 Hmmm...  Mullards, huh?  I haven't tried anything but the Philips because I've been so happy with them.


----------



## mwindham08

Yeah they are Valvo rebrands. I have some seimens as well but haven't spent as much time with them yet.


----------



## thegrobe

Well folks, I'll be without the Taboo for a couple weeks or so- I sent it in to have the mysterious background hum I've posted about earlier checked out.

After receiving the CSP3, I could compare the two. The CSP is quiet, the Taboo unusually noisy in comparison. So at least I know I'm not overly sensitive to hum. It's an actual problem with the Taboo that needs to be checked out.

Wish me luck with "withdrawals"


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> Well folks, I'll be without the Taboo for a couple weeks or so- I sent it in to have the mysterious background hum I've posted about earlier checked out.
> 
> After receiving the CSP3, I could compare the two. The CSP is quiet, the Taboo unusually noisy in comparison. So at least I know I'm not overly sensitive to hum. It's an actual problem with the Taboo that needs to be checked out.
> 
> Wish me luck with "withdrawals"


 
  




  
 Good to get that cleared up.


----------



## OPR8R

So after some more signal tube rolling in the Taboo/CSP3 combo, I think I've settled on the following.  When the Taboo and CSP3 are paired, rolling the signal tube in the Taboo makes the biggest difference.  After all the tubes I've tried, I like the stock configuration on the CSP3 feeding into an Amperex Orange Globe (with the halo getter) on the Taboo.  That combo gives me the best bass (good slam, extension, and detail), smooth highs, and mids that are slightly out front.  I had tried some other Orange Globes that had a different internals, but those didn't sound like the one I have.
  
 Telefunken E88CC's are nice tubes, and though they are somewhat rare, can be found NOS.  Mids are a bit back, and highs are just shy of being smooth.  My personal opinion is that the Amprerex 6DJ8 Orange Globes (with the halo getter) sound a little better.  I've only ever seen them used, but they are usually less expensive if you can find them. The Amprerex 6922 white labels are supposed to be a little better than the Orange Globes so I might tried those next, but this is getting expensive.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Good findings.

I'm in the wrong thread here but ... just discovered how much difference a DAC can make. Had my CSP2 and Taboo 2 tuned just right for my previous DACs, especially the Meier Stagedac and Beresford Bushmaster with T1 (CSP2) and LCD2 (Taboo).

Now with the BMC PureDAC - which produces a lot more information and layering especially in the bass and mids - the tuning is all wrong. The PureDAC has more subtle detail and *weight* as well. My other dacs were thin I guess, as the bass is now a bit relentless. Back to tube-rolling...


----------



## OPR8R

argo duck said:


> ^ Good findings.
> 
> I'm in the wrong thread here but ... just discovered how much difference a DAC can make. Had my CSP2 and Taboo 2 tuned just right for my previous DACs, especially the Meier Stagedac and Beresford Bushmaster with T1 (CSP2) and LCD2 (Taboo).
> 
> Now with the BMC PureDAC - which produces a lot more information and layering especially in the bass and mids - the tuning is all wrong. The PureDAC has more subtle detail and *weight* as well. My other dacs were thin I guess, as the bass is now a bit relentless. Back to tube-rolling...


 
  
 Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about how much difference a DAC can make on other threads.  I'm not an expert but it seems to me there's a combination of more music plus more power (preamp) going on, especially with DAC's at or above that price.  But yeah, with the Taboo I imagine you're hearing every bit of the difference between DAC's


----------



## Argo Duck

You're right OPR8R. At first I kind of blamed the Taboo & CSP. Then I realised they were just revealing how much difference the Dac makes.

Btw (I need to put this on the CSP2 thread) the Siemens gold-pin 6922 tube I bought off Frank - replacing a bugle boy that sounded quite good before the PureDac - seems to be the answer. That didn't take long  Now to figure out the Taboo...


----------



## koiloco

Well, my taboo is coming back home next Monday.  No CSP3 for at least a few more weeks depending on how fast Steve moves.    Can't wait to hear that mid again.  Oh lala. 
 I am also hoping for no more problem from this new combo.  Reading about some of you having to send your units back to Decware kind of often for such a small user group scares me a bit.


----------



## OPR8R

koiloco said:


> Well, my taboo is coming back home next Monday.  No CSP3 for at least a few more weeks depending on how fast Steve moves.    Can't wait to hear that mid again.  Oh lala.
> I am also hoping for no more problem from this new combo.  Reading about some of you having to send your units back to Decware kind of often for such a small user group scares me a bit.


 
  
 If it makes you feel any better, I haven't had any issues with my CSP3.  In the meantime, enjoy your Taboo (when you get it back)


----------



## Argo Duck

koiloco, I would not worry about the apparent high problem rate in this group. In the context of the _large_ group of owners world-wide (which I presume have not seen the same frequency, or I think we would have heard about it!) I think the rate is small. The rate here is likely to have been chance.


----------



## thegrobe

The CSP3 is 100% trouble free...if that helps at all. Except for it arriving with the incorrect headphone jacks. 

But Decware certainly was on the ball taking care of that. They offered to: A) have me ship the unit back at no cost, turn it around in one day and send it back to me. B) Build another unit, which would ship to me from Decware on the same day I shipped my unit back. Or C) (kind of reluctantly) send me the parts to change it myself.

I pushed for the parts sent to me, as I plan on a few modifications and cap rolling, etc so changing the jacks is no problem. 

Point is, they offered to immediately rectify the situation as quickly as possible and at no cost to me. Great service.

And as far as the issue that sent the Taboo back..I think there are far more owners who have silent units than otherwise. You just hear the folks with a problem posting because it's something to discuss/figure out. Someone with a silent unit isn't going to post "should my unit be noisy, what's wrong?" LOL.

Maybe they had a bad batch of capacitors or transformers, etc. Who knows?

Again, point here is they are 100% taking care of the issue to my satisfaction which is great considering my unit was bought second hand and they aren't charging anything for repairs. Again, great service.


----------



## koiloco

No doubt about Decware and Steve's customer service at all from my personal experience so far.  Top notch!


----------



## mmlogic

thegrobe said:


> Well folks, I'll be without the Taboo for a couple weeks or so- I sent it in to have the mysterious background hum I've posted about earlier checked out.


 
  
 I've lived with this hum for 5 months now, I can ignore the hum when I listen to LCD2, but unfortunately the main headphone I use is PS1000.
 Taboo III is designed specifically for low sensitivity LCD2, so anyone who wants to pair it with high sensitivity headphones should think twice, there is a very good chance you'll get a humming one.


----------



## WNBC

Out of curiosity do you hear the hum with your HD800 or HD650?  
  
  
 Quote:


mmlogic said:


> I've lived with this hum for 5 months now, I can ignore the hum when I listen to LCD2, but unfortunately the main headphone I use is PS1000.
> Taboo III is designed specifically for low sensitivity LCD2, so anyone who wants to pair it with high sensitivity headphones should think twice, there is a very good chance you'll get a humming one.


----------



## longbowbbs

I only heard hum with the volume near maximum.


----------



## negura

longbowbbs said:


> I only heard hum with the volume near maximum.


 
  
 Btw, since I've changed my DAC to the PWD2, I also get hum above 80-90% volume on the Taboo. I guess my previous DAC was just giving less voltage to hear any hum. Interestingly there is 0 hum whatsoever on the speaker posts, listening to speakers or Stax via Woo Wee. Also if I switch to the the second line in where nothing is connected, there's no hum even at max volumes.
  
 I guess it's "normal" after all with the Taboo. On my LCD-3s - I would never listen to those volumes anyway where the hum becomes audible.


----------



## longbowbbs

negura said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I only heard hum with the volume near maximum.
> ...


 
  
 No way I would ever listen at that volume. I barely got past 9 (Assuming the screw on the volume knob was at 6-7 for 0 volume and 4-5 for max)


----------



## mmlogic

longbowbbs said:


> I only heard hum with the volume near maximum.


 
  
 The hum thegrobe and I experienced doesn't change with volume, 
 and I don't possess HD800 and 650 anymore, so I don't know if they will have the same issue.


----------



## longbowbbs

I guess I would say it was more hiss than hum. I do not believe it was transformer related.


----------



## WNBC

I've got a low level hum with old lucid mode engaged and a higher level of hum with new lucid mode engaged.  No reduction if I use cheater plugs.  If I turn off all lucid modes there is no hum.  Therefore I just think it is just part of the experience.  I may not even hear hum with less efficient headphones or balanced mode.  Waiting to get the ADs before I decide on my next headphone.  No complaints about sound quality though.  Decware amps are dynamic and lively with speakers or headphones.


----------



## koiloco

Taboo just come back safely from Steve. Steve fixed the knob issue too.  Dead silence between each click now.  I am a happy camper again though can't wait till CSP3 arrives.


----------



## mwindham08

My csp3 is in testing! Not long now. Would a Friday delivery be too optimistic?


----------



## koiloco

mwindham08 said:


> My csp3 is in testing! Not long now. Would a Friday delivery be too optimistic?


 
 lol, you are worse than me.


----------



## OPR8R

Friday isn't impossible. The list tends to get updated in spurts and I don't know how long it would take to get from Decware to Birmingham, but I would "try" not to get my hopes up too much. Of course, that's easier said that done. If you go back and read through this tread, you'll see I was looking for my CSP3 to arrive weeks before it even shipped.


----------



## mwindham08

opr8r said:


> Friday isn't impossible. The list tends to get updated in spurts and I don't know how long it would take to get from Decware to Birmingham, but I would "try" not to get my hopes up too much. Of course, that's easier said that done. If you go back and read through this tread, you'll see I was looking for my CSP3 to arrive weeks before it even shipped.


 
  
 way to let me down easy lol. They pretty much quit Wednesday of last week, I assume for Decfest, so hopefully they will work extra hard this week to make up 





. Knowing my luck they still haven't gotten in more wood bases.


----------



## jazzgas

mwindham08 said:


> My csp3 is in testing! Not long now. Would a Friday delivery be too optimistic?


 
  
 You will get several updates.  Once you get a notice of shipment you'll be given a UPS tracking number and delivery will probably be 3 or 4 days  not including Sundays.  My CSP 3 remained in the shipping department for a while before shipment.  Next Friday might be more realistic.  Mark.


----------



## mwindham08

jazzgas said:


> You will get several updates.  Once you get a notice of shipment you'll be given a UPS tracking number and delivery will probably be 3 or 4 days  not including Sundays.  My CSP 3 remained in the shipping department for a while before shipment.  Next Friday might be more realistic.  Mark.


 
  
   lol I know I've already gotten a Taboo before, I'm just joking. Be nice if I got it before the weekend though. A person can dream...


----------



## koiloco

Lol.  Btw, any of you guys have tried sophia princess for rectifier yet?  I am thinking about giving that a shot.


----------



## mwindham08

koiloco said:


> Lol.  Btw, any of you guys have tried sophia princess for rectifier yet?  I am thinking about giving that a shot.


 
  
 Don't even get me started on that one...I accidently bought a used one but it was the mesh version? or something like that. Definitely the wrong type of tube for the Taboo. I turned it on, heard the worst screaching noise you've ever heard, and immediately turned the amp off. This was like 2 days after I got the Taboo so I freaked out pretty bad...


----------



## koiloco

Guys, i don't know what to say and what to do.  I was so happy to receive the taboo today.  I listened to my akg Q701 the entire afternoon (1/4" TRS) at the office.  I just got home and hooked everything up.  I plugged in my Hifiman HE500 (4pin XLR) and to my disappointment, there was a constant loud hissing/wailing noise without any other components connected to the taboo.  The only thing that would stop this horrid noise is to turn on either lucid mode which I don't use.  This problem didn't exist before I sent the taboo back last time for the DSD playback troubleshooting.  I already emailed Steve and waiting for his response.  This sucks big timeeeeeeee.  Omg.  






  Any advise?


----------



## mwindham08

Bring your he 500 to work and see if it does it again. If not it's definitely something at the house. I'm assuming stock tubes so all I can guess is it's something at your house or its the xlr connections. Is the akg at your house? Does it work fine?


----------



## thegrobe

Oh yikes. When it rains it pours. I hope you sort it out quickly.


----------



## koiloco

mwindham08 said:


> Bring your he 500 to work and see if it does it again. If not it's definitely something at the house. I'm assuming stock tubes so all I can guess is it's something at your house or its the xlr connections. Is the akg at your house? Does it work fine?


 
  
 Stock tubes.  AKG works fine off the 1/4" TRS (with lucid on as required of course).  HE500's cable is balanced running off the 4 pin XLR.  There's nothing wrong with the plugs at my house.  Before I sent the taboo back last time 3 weeks ago for troubleshooting the DSD playback noise issue from my TEAC DAC, *there was no hiss/wailing *running my HE500 from the XLR.  Honestly, I don't really care what it is at this point.  I am just disappointed approaching pissed. Yes, I might just be the unlucky one who probably should just call it quit with Decware.  Well, at least, I've tried.  Tomorrow, I will bring the taboo back to the office and pack it up for shipping back and cancel my CSP3 order too.  I don't have time for this back and forth. 
Don't get me wrong guys! Decware's customer service is great.  Steve is a great guy.  Their QC and testing need a lot of work, IMO.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ (Sigh) that's just really bad - I feel for you. I hope you make these points about QC and testing to Steve. I'm pretty sure he'll take it seriously.

Especially because two days ago I discovered how well Decware gear scales with improved source. The BMC dac I bought recently has so much texture and impact in the bass it revealed my previous tube choices were now too bassy (obviously compensating for somewhat thin dacs). Luckily, I had the right tubes (tubes that previously sounded too cold) on hand. One track was Led Zeppelin's 'In my time of dying'. I know John Bonham hits hard but...the sheer power, impact and attack of his first drum strike just about blew me out of my chair. I never heard his drumming like this before - and this was with the CSP2/Taboo, which I've previously considered less transparent than Taboo alone.

When the gear works (which I'm pretty sure is most of the time), it works brilliantly.

I wish you well and a lot better luck in future finding the right amps for you...


----------



## mwindham08

koiloco said:


> Stock tubes.  AKG works fine off the 1/4" TRS (with lucid on as required of course).  HE500's cable is balanced running off the 4 pin XLR.  There's nothing wrong with the plugs at my house.  Before I sent the taboo back last time 3 weeks ago for troubleshooting the DSD playback noise issue from my TEAC DAC, *there was no hiss/wailing *running my HE500 from the XLR.  Honestly, I don't really care what it is at this point.  I am just disappointed approaching pissed. Yes, I might just be the unlucky one who probably should just call it quit with Decware.  Well, at least, I've tried.  Tomorrow, I will bring the taboo back to the office and pack it up for shipping back and cancel my CSP3 order too.  I don't have time for this back and forth.
> Don't get me wrong guys! Decware's customer service is great.  Steve is a great guy.  Their QC and testing need a lot of work, IMO.


 
  
 That does suck I understand sending it back though. I hope my CSP3 doesn't have any problems with it. I don't even experience the humming alot of other people have been hearing with my Taboo so hopefully my luck will hold out.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> ^ (Sigh) that's just really bad - I feel for you. I hope you make these points about QC and testing to Steve. I'm pretty sure he'll take it seriously.
> 
> Especially because two days ago I discovered how well Decware gear scales with improved source. The BMC dac I bought recently has so much texture and impact in the bass it revealed my previous tube choices were now too bassy (obviously compensating for somewhat thin dacs). Luckily, I had the right tubes (tubes that previously sounded too cold) on hand. One track was Led Zeppelin's 'In my time of dying'. I know John Bonham hits hard but...the sheer power, impact and attack of his first drum strike just about blew me out of my chair. I never heard his drumming like this before - and this was with the CSP2/Taboo, which I've previously considered less transparent than Taboo alone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It does scale very well. When I upgraded the DAC-2 to the DSDse version the Decware happily upped its game.


----------



## bearFNF

I just did a little test with my HE-500's and with lucid mode off there is some noise (static and popping) when turning the volume up, but it goes away when I turn lucid mode one on.  Pretty much dead silent until you get to max volume.
 I also tried this with my Schiit Asgard 2 as pre-amp and there is considerable amount of noise (static) with lucid mode on or off and the same kind of noise as in the above with lucid turned off but with more static.
  
 no music playing during these tests USB to my uber bifrost, 4-pin xlr, bugle boy power, sylvania 53YG rectifier, and stock output tubes.


----------



## mwindham08

I tested the volume on my Taboo as well. I turned up my dac all the way up (which ouputs 2.5volts) and turned the taboo volume all the way up with all lucid modes and mine is dead silent. Not sure if that will change when I add the CSP3.


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> I tested the volume on my Taboo as well. I turned up my dac all the way up (which ouputs 2.5volts) and turned the taboo volume all the way up with all lucid modes and mine is dead silent. Not sure if that will change when I add the CSP3.




The only "noise" that added into my chain with the CSP3 was a slight hum that was the result of a carelessly routed interconnect that is poorly shielded that was lying across a power cord. 

Corrected that and the CSP3 added no noise whatsoever. (I still had the slight hum that sent my taboo in for service -but the CSP3 in or out of the chain it was unchanged.) You've got to be careful with the mess of vertical interconnects and power cords!


----------



## OPR8R

Real briefly, my setup is pretty well silent.  I get pops from my volume nob using 6DJ8 signal tubes but quiet tuning with stock or 6922 tubes.  My CSP3 did nothing to add more noise.
  
 Not to change the subject (back) but no one has tried the compatible Sophia rectifiers?


----------



## koiloco

I am still waiting for a response from Steve.  The noise in my taboo off the 4pin XLR is a loud hissing/wailing tone, not a humming one.  When I touch the left speaker taps between + and -, the noise would change tone like I am playing an electronic saxophone.  When I touch the right speaker tap shorting + and -, the noise would decrease significantly to barely audible.  Also, if I plugged another HP into the 1/4" TRS while the HE500 in the XLR, the noise will disappear.  All these are with both lucid modes off.  This is just so frustrating...


----------



## Pentode Guy

koiloco said:


> I am still waiting for a response from Steve.  The noise in my taboo off the 4pin XLR is a loud hissing/wailing tone, not a humming one.  When I touch the left speaker taps between + and -, the noise would change tone like I am playing an electronic saxophone.  When I touch the right speaker tap shorting + and -, the noise would decrease significantly to barely audible.  Also, if I plugged another HP into the 1/4" TRS while the HE500 in the XLR, the noise will disappear.  All these are with both lucid modes off.  This is just so frustrating...


 
  
 I've been following your posts and your problem with the Taboo. IIRC, Steve built you a new Taboo.
 It seems like Decware is having issue with QC. I'm worried my Taboo on order will be having some issues too. Sending the unit back several times is really a big hassle even if Steve pays shipping back and forth.


----------



## koiloco

pentode guy said:


> I've been following your posts and your problem with the Taboo. IIRC, Steve built you a new Taboo.
> It seems like Decware is having issue with QC. I'm worried my Taboo on order will be having some issues too. Sending the unit back several times is really a big hassle even if Steve pays shipping back and forth.


 
  
 I might be the unlucky one but so far, I am not impressed.  I live in the US but like you said, it is a big hassle shipping back and forth on top of my time.  Not to mention, not being able to enjoy the unit at all so far.  For something that costs couple hundred dollars, it's not acceptable.  For something that's 10x more, it's absolutely beyond unacceptable.  You might have better luck than me.


----------



## clowkoy

A Decware Problems Thread ?
I personally received a CSP2+ (long gone) with reversed line out.


----------



## ZenTriode

Hi Koiloco,
  
 I just thought I would check in here as I occasionally like to do, and noticed your post.  As you might know, we had our annual DECFEST here on Friday, Sat, Sunday and have been closed so I haven't worked my way down the list of e-mails far enough to see yours yet.  Today is my first day back to work, assuming cleaning up after the fest isn't work 
  
 Naturally I wasn't any more pleased than you to find out you are now having more problems.  I completely understand your frustration and have no problem with your sending it back.  However there are a couple things that I think are important to point out regarding our Quality Control...  
  
 A) The problem you originally had with your Taboo turned out to be the DAC not the Taboo.  The amp was perfect.
 B) The problem and or cause of the problem you're having now can not be confirmed until the amp makes it's way back here and is re-tested ~ making it too early to jump to conclusions.
  
 Irregardless we still feel bad that you are having so many issues with it.
  
  
 - Steve


----------



## koiloco

zentriode said:


> Hi Koiloco,
> 
> I just thought I would check in here as I occasionally like to do, and noticed your post.  As you might know, we had our annual DECFEST here on Friday, Sat, Sunday and have been closed so I haven't worked my way down the list of e-mails far enough to see yours yet.  Today is my first day back to work, assuming cleaning up after the fest isn't work
> 
> ...


 
 Steve,
 Thank you for posting and let me know what's going on.  I will ship the taboo back to you today.  UPS ground.


----------



## koiloco

clowkoy said:


> A Decware Problems Thread ?
> I personally received a CSP2+ (long gone) with reversed line out.


 







  I am glad I am not the only one.  Though, I am still very much in love with the SQ of the taboo.


----------



## ZenTriode

koiloco,
  
 I got your Taboo MK III back today along with the tubes and found an input tube that was excessively noisy (hum).  I know it was not noisy when it left here because I personally did the final QC on the amp.  That means that either the tube was compromised during shipping or simply contained a defect that took several days to show up.  Either way, if the tube was like this when you had it, it may have contributed to the weird noise that you heard.  From your earlier descriptions the noise sounds like it might have been an oscillation.  I have never been able to make a Taboo oscillate with a bad input tube... but perhaps we shouldn't discount that there is always a first time for everything.  
  
 Since the unit was tested with both the bad tube and a good tube and found to be in perfect shape, no problems or noises found whatsoever, it leads me to suspect a problem with the headphone cable perhaps having an intermittent ground on one channel or the other.  I am of course assuming it is the same cable you have been using all along.
  
 I know you're new to tubes, and now that father murphy has gotten involved you're frustrated and I completely understand.  Please contact me via my private e-mail to confirm that you want to return the unit.  
  
 Thanks,
  
 Steve


----------



## koiloco

Steve,
  
 Please check your private email @decware.com.  I just forwarded the email I sent you/Sarah on Wed when I shipped out the taboo.


----------



## negura

zentriode said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Steve


 
  
 Hi Steve,
  
 How's the Taboo expected to work with these:
http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd-x
  
 New 22Ohms planars from Audeze. More efficient.
  
 Thx.


----------



## longbowbbs

Judging how well it does with the 300 ohm Sennheiser's in both SE and Balanced I would expect it to be a nice match with the new Audeze's.


----------



## jazzgas

negura said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> How's the Taboo expected to work with these:
> http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd-x
> ...


 
 Negura,  those look interesting.  I'm looking forward to some reviews of both these and the closed Cans....so at $1700 are the $2000 LCD 3s still superior....or maybe just different.  I'm still waiting for the  Balanced Silver Widows I ordered long ago for my LCD 2.2s.  I recently added a Decware ZP3 phono stage bought used that has a hum and will be returned to the seller soon. Today I added a Rega RP-6 TT with Exact 2 MM Cart into the mix.....WOW the Rega, ZP3, Taboo and LCD 2.2 combo is amazing.  I've never heard this much detail from my albums before.  I also have a brand spanking new CSP-3 that's been waiting patiently since last Wednesday to be added to the mix...and a pair of Zu Audio "Soul" speakers that arrived last week.  All in due time.  Mark.


----------



## mwindham08

jazzgas said:


> Negura,  those look interesting.  I'm looking forward to some reviews of both these and the closed Cans....so at $1700 are the $2000 LCD 3s still superior....or maybe just different.  I'm still waiting for the  Balanced Silver Widows I ordered long ago for my LCD 2.2s.  I recently added a Decware ZP3 phono stage bought used that has a hum and will be returned to the seller soon. Today I added a Rega RP-6 TT with Exact 2 MM Cart into the mix.....WOW the Rega, ZP3, Taboo and LCD 2.2 combo is amazing.  I've never heard this much detail from my albums before.  I also have a brand spanking new CSP-3 that's been waiting patiently since last Wednesday to be added to the mix...and a pair of Zu Audio "Soul" speakers that arrived last week.  All in due time.  Mark.


 
 I think everyone is a little confused between the 3 and the X. If the lcd 3 is still the better headphone I would always pay the extra 300 dollars or buy a used lcd 3 for the same price.
 Surely they will just be different, they will kill their sales of the lcd 3 if the X is the better and cheaper headphone. Still makes you wonder how different they actually will be. Audeze is also 
 coming out with a DAC/Amp now too. Seems they have been very busy the last 2 years.
  
 You will love your silver widows, definitely worth the wait. I think Frank is almost all caught up so I would say you should be getting them soon.


----------



## Argo Duck

Agreed about the LCD3 - I will still go for them (next year now) if they're the better hp. OTOH LCD-X specs are interesting - a yet lighter diaphragm and 22 ohms (presumably still flat, resistive) impedance. Taboos should love these.

Of course it's not unheard of for later tech to outdo earlier at a lower price (perhaps it _is_ unheard of in high-end audio? :evil. I await impressions with interest.


----------



## negura

They're coming through: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684394/audeze-lcd-x/120#post_9883562
  
 I'm tempted. But, as history teaches us with Audeze, it might be a good idea to wait for a while before pulling the trigger.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yeah I should've read that thread first! Of course, Decware threads are always my first read 

Guess you'd expect better transient response from the yet lighter diaphragm. So in terms of mass LCD-X < LCD-3 < LCD-2 (where '<' means "lighter and quicker").

Interesting...sounds like it's a different sound from the "Audez'e house sound"...still, early days...


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> Agreed about the LCD3 - I will still go for them (next year now) if they're the better hp. OTOH LCD-X specs are interesting - a yet lighter diaphragm and 22 ohms (presumably still flat, resistive) impedance. Taboos should love these.
> 
> Of course it's not unheard of for later tech to outdo earlier at a lower price (perhaps it _is_ unheard of in high-end audio?
> 
> ...


 
 You are SUCH a sceptic! ( and a realist as well!)


----------



## Argo Duck

Lol Eric, my day job must be getting to me


----------



## jazzgas

negura said:


> They're coming through: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684394/audeze-lcd-x/120#post_9883562
> 
> I'm tempted. But, as history teaches us with Audeze, it might be a good idea to wait for a while before pulling the trigger.


 
 I'm not tempted.  I am happy with the warmer signature of the LCD 2.2s and still await what they'll sound like with the silver widows.  If I want "Balanced" and more "Revealing/detailed" I put on the HD800s.  On some recordings the HD800's are just too much though and I go to the LCD 2.2s...they're always pleasing on any recording.  Before I would buy another Audeze I'd actually have to do A B testing with them against the LCD 2.2s.  Mark.


----------



## negura

jazzgas said:


> I'm not tempted.  I am happy with the warmer signature of the LCD 2.2s and still await what they'll sound like with the silver widows.  If I want "Balanced" and more "Revealing/detailed" I put on the HD800s.  On some recordings the HD800's are just too much though and I go to the LCD 2.2s...they're always pleasing on any recording.  Before I would buy another Audeze I'd actually have to do A B testing with them against the LCD 2.2s.  Mark.


 
  
 The Silver Widows have fantastic synergy with the LCD-2s. I used them both. For me it was a bit different as after buying the HD800 my LCD-2s did not get much head time and eventually got sold. But I hear what you're saying about some recordings. I listen to pretty much everything between classical and metal. The LCD-3s made that good again for camp Audeze. But then came the SR007s MKI and in short that took care of them all others.


----------



## jazzgas

negura said:


> The Silver Widows have fantastic synergy with the LCD-2s. I used them both. For me it was a bit different as after buying the HD800 my LCD-2s did not get much head time and eventually got sold. But I hear what you're saying about some recordings. I listen to pretty much everything between classical and metal. The LCD-3s made that good again for camp Audeze. But then came the SR007s MKI and in short that took care of them all others.


 
 Different strokes for different folks.  When I first got the HD800s, I was tempted to send them back.  The recording had to be just perfect and even then they sounded too edgy and bright.  I keep both the LCDs and the HD800s hooked up when listening and after the HD800s had had some break in, I liked them much better and they won't be going anywhere.  But for LPs with a bit too much surface noise or poorer recordings of any source the LCDs are the only way to go. Mark.


----------



## negura

jazzgas said:


> Different strokes for different folks.  When I first got the HD800s, I was tempted to send them back.  The recording had to be just perfect and even then they sounded too edgy and bright.  I keep both the LCDs and the HD800s hooked up when listening and after the HD800s had had some break in, I liked them much better and they won't be going anywhere.  But for LPs with a bit too much surface noise or poorer recordings of any source the LCDs are the only way to go. Mark.


 
  
 All that on the Taboo? This may sound trivial, but if your ears are young or otherwise very sensitive to treble (I am), might be worthwhile to give your HD800s a copper aftermarket cable and the Anax mod. That made them immensely enjoyable for me.


----------



## jazzgas

negura said:


> All that on the Taboo? This may sound trivial, but if your ears are young or otherwise very sensitive to treble (I am), might be worthwhile to give your HD800s a copper aftermarket cable and the Anax mod. That made them immensely enjoyable for me.


 
 Yes, I use the Taboo and soon I'll add a CSP 3. For speakers ordered (HR-1s) I have the Decware Torii MK IV Amp ordered.  My hearing if extremely good/sensitive.  I thought the standard cable was cooper....what's the anax mod?  I don't think I'm ready for another $500 aftermarket cable purchase...the Silver Widows are enough for now.  Exactly what aftermarket cooper cable did you buy for the HD800's?  Mark.


----------



## negura

jazzgas said:


> Yes, I use the Taboo and soon I'll add a CSP 3. For speakers ordered (HR-1s) I have the Decware Torii MK IV Amp ordered.  My hearing if extremely good/sensitive.  I thought the standard cable was cooper....what's the anax mod?  I don't think I'm ready for another $500 aftermarket cable purchase...the Silver Widows are enough for now.  Exactly what aftermarket cooper cable did you buy for the HD800's?  Mark.


 
  
 Very worthwhile: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
  
 I may have guessed right, your ears appear to be similar to mine in relation to treble. I can still hear up to 20k  and sharp/hot treble kills the deal for me. The mod above is basically some damping to the resonant plastic materials in the ear cup. They sort out a good deal of the problem. I have heard several Toxic Cables and the Black Widow and Scorpion do treble justice the HD800s.


----------



## WNBC

If one were to get the Woo Wee what would be your lower level Stax that one might use if the SR007 MKI was not going to be purchased for a while?
  
  
 Quote:


negura said:


> The Silver Widows have fantastic synergy with the LCD-2s. I used them both. For me it was a bit different as after buying the HD800 my LCD-2s did not get much head time and eventually got sold. But I hear what you're saying about some recordings. I listen to pretty much everything between classical and metal. The LCD-3s made that good again for camp Audeze. But then came the SR007s MKI and in short that took care of them all others.


----------



## negura

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 I am not sure about the lower models. It might be worthwhile to check in the Stax thread. I've only heard 3 stats, the 007MKIs, MKIIs and the SR-Omega. And that was enough to convince me. Just be aware there are 2 types connectors/bias voltages between the various Staxes. That's if you decide to go with the Woo as there are options when ordering. And it makes using the EL84s a requirement on the Taboo. I prefer them for the SQ anyway. I found the 6p15p will clip early.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/677809


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  No immediate plans to try the Stax but good to know we have options using our Taboo.  
  
  
 Quote:


negura said:


> I am not sure about the lower models. It might be worthwhile to check in the Stax thread. I've only heard 3 stats, the 007MKIs, MKIIs and the SR-Omega. And that was enough to convince me. Just be aware there are 2 types connectors/bias voltages between the various Staxes. That's if you decide to go with the Woo as there are options when ordering. And it makes using the EL84s a requirement on the Taboo. I prefer them for the SQ anyway. I found the 6p15p will clip early.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/677809


----------



## WNBC

Any other Taboo owners enjoying the Alpha Dogs as well?  The CSP > Taboo > Alpha Dogs have taken care of all my closed headphone needs.  A neutral headphone with the Taboo tube warmth.  Excellent combo.  Anybody with experience with the DT990 600 ohm and the Taboo?  Looking for an inexpensive, open, "fun" U- or V-shaped open dynamic headphone to pair with the Taboo.


----------



## OPR8R

wnbc said:


> Any other Taboo owners enjoying the Alpha Dogs as well?  The CSP > Taboo > Alpha Dogs have taken care of all my closed headphone needs.  A neutral headphone with the Taboo tube warmth.  Excellent combo.  Anybody with experience with the DT990 600 ohm and the Taboo?  Looking for an inexpensive, open, "fun" U- or V-shaped open dynamic headphone to pair with the Taboo.


 
  
 I've only heard AD's at a meet, but I was very impressed.  If I didn't already have a pair of planars, I probably would've gone for some.


----------



## Charnwood

I have some AD's on order but they're intended mainly for use at the office and not with my Taboo.


----------



## koiloco

Hi all, it's been great knowing you all in this thread and thx for all the advise and input you've given me about the taboo.  I'll see you guys around the forum.


----------



## WNBC

Agree.  I've been thinking of adding an open headphone and was thinking of returning to the HE-500 or HE-4.  But then it becomes a double planar rig which is fine but I'm just thinking a 2 headphone home rig and in that case matching up a good open dynamic headphone would be more complimentary.  
  
  
 Quote:


opr8r said:


> I've only heard AD's at a meet, but I was very impressed.  If I didn't already have a pair of planars, I probably would've gone for some.


----------



## WNBC

We're all in this journey together.  You may be back here one day.  I left the Taboo world for 6 months and then came to the MKIII...then the CSP3.  
  
 Cheers!
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Hi all, it's been great knowing you all in this thread and thx for all the advise and input you've given me about the taboo.  I'll see you guys around the forum.


----------



## longbowbbs

wnbc said:


> We're all in this journey together.  You may be back here one day.  I left the Taboo world for 6 months and then came to the MKIII...then the CSP3.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
 Hobby? What hobby?


----------



## x2turbo

Updated the desktop stereo today. Decware Taboo MK III amplifier, Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09, Onkyo ND-S1000 Media Transport (Japanese version) and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones.

 Going to upgrade the cans to Audeze LCD-2s shortly. That's what the amp was specifically designed for.

 Sweet sounds for sure!
  
 http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww64/turbox2/602397_10152281454472306_2017143691_n_zpsf81d5fd0.jpg


----------



## mwindham08

x2turbo said:


> Updated the desktop stereo today. Decware Taboo MK III amplifier, Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09, Onkyo ND-S1000 Media Transport (Japanese version) and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones.
> 
> Going to upgrade the cans to Audeze LCD-2s shortly. That's what the amp was specifically designed for.
> 
> ...


 
 I remember when my desk looked that neat, hope yours stays that way longer than mine did! I think you will like the LCD-2's. 
 What tubes are you using with the Taboo?


----------



## longbowbbs

x2Turbo, that is a fine looking Taboo you have!


----------



## V-Duh

x3 on the Taboo, Turbo!  I generally shy away from blonde wood for anything but with the black top the maple(?) makes a striking contrast.  Very nice!
 x2 on the desk.  I wish I could keep a desk looking so tidy.


----------



## x2turbo

I bet it does look familiar Longbow. LOL
  
 Still using the stock tubes and the desk is clean because I cleaned it before I took the pic!! I have over a dozen vintage 6DJ8 tubes I took out of an old Tektronix scope that I want to try but haven't yet. They include some telefunken and Amperex bugle boys.


----------



## longbowbbs

x2turbo said:


> I bet it does look familiar Longbow. LOL
> 
> Still using the stock tubes and the desk is clean because I cleaned it before I took the pic!! I have over a dozen vintage 6DJ8 tubes I took out of an old Tektronix scope that I want to try but haven't yet. They include some telefunken and Amperex bugle boys.


 
 I really enjoyed rolling some Mullard EL84's The stock tubes are excellent. Rolling simply allowed for a variety of tonalities. I am glad it is a winner for you as well!


----------



## Rudivanb

kendoji said:


> I take back what I said about the lucid modes recently, as I'm discovering some albums that really benefit from new lucid mode.  It generally doesn't work with busy music, but some folky stuff with a limited number of instruments can sound great with it on.  Right now I'm listening to the recent Calexico album and new lucid mode gives it a very pleasant forward presentation on the HD800s.  Doesn't sound 'weird' like it does on some albums.


 

 Another Head-fi'er from Amsterdam, nice to see. I read you had a hum issue with your Taboo, were you able to solve it?
  
 Two months ago I heard an LCD-3 on a Bakoon HPA-21 and a Malvalve Head Amp Three. I was so impressed that I now am happy to have an LCD-3 in the house even though my amps are less than optimal for the LCD-3. So I made a short list of amps I might be able to afford, with a balanced output and sufficient power. The Taboo MKIII is on the top of my list, also because it is supposed to do great with an HD-800.

 In a few weeks, when my LCD-3 has enough hours on it, I would love to hear it with an LCD-3 and I see you have one. Is it okay Kendoji to send you a PM?

 Are there others who heard the combination of LCD-3 driven by Taboo MKIII?
  
 cheers,
 rudi


----------



## thegrobe

rudivanb said:


> Are there others who heard the combination of LCD-3 driven by Taboo MKIII?
> 
> cheers,
> rudi


 
  
 Yes! I am also fortunate enough to have this pairing and am very very satisfied with the Taboo mk3 and LCD-3. Tweaking the tubes to personal preference, I find the pairing natural and effortless sounding with great spatial feel. I also have the CSP3, adding that to the chain takes away some transparency, adds a little color. Note weight and body are increased, as well as increased options for gain adjustments and tube rolling. The CSP3 alone with the right tubes is also not shabby at all with the LCD-3! Had I never heard the Taboo, the CSP3 on it's own would not disappoint. My preferences (for LCD) in order: CSP3+Taboo3 > Taboo3 > CSP3.


----------



## mwindham08

I get my csp3 today, very excited!


----------



## Rudivanb

thegrobe said:


> Yes! I am also fortunate enough to have this pairing and am very very satisfied with the Taboo mk3 and LCD-3. Tweaking the tubes to personal preference, I find the pairing natural and effortless sounding with great spatial feel. I also have the CSP3, adding that to the chain takes away some transparency, adds a little color. Note weight and body are increased, as well as increased options for gain adjustments and tube rolling. The CSP3 alone with the right tubes is also not shabby at all with the LCD-3! Had I never heard the Taboo, the CSP3 on it's own would not disappoint. My preferences (for LCD) in order: CSP3+Taboo3 > Taboo3 > CSP3.


 

 Thank you for your enthousiastic recommendation, that makes me wanting the Taboo even more.That this combinations works so well says a lot about the Taboo, because the LCD-3 is revealing  so much of the amp and source. Hopefully Kendoji is still reading this thread and let me hear his Taboo. Are there other Head-fi'ers in NL having a Taboo MK3?
 However I suspect that even buying a Taboo unheard I would not go wrong. The option of upgrading later by adding a CSP3 and / or rolling tubes is a bonus. Does the Taboo on its own have a good grip on the low or deep end of the LCD-3 and still show all colours and details of the low notes?
  
 cheers,
 rudi


----------



## negura

Yes, the Taboo alone has a very strong deep low-end. Better extension and slam than my previous Soloist.
 And tube rolling continues to build on that. I'd swap the rectifier first for a 20-30$ RCA double D getter from the 1950s (plenty of them on eBay). This rectifier is ridiculously good for the money.


----------



## thegrobe

Yes, in my opinion, to your question about the low end. Not anemic. It can be tweaked with tube choice to fatten or lean out the bottom.

The Taboo on it's own is fantastic with the LCD-3. I could happily live with that pairing alone. I consider adding the CSP3 as more of a different flavor, rather than a universal improvement. It adds some sonic advantages but at a slight loss of certain other areas. It's preference whether you will like it alone or with the pre. However, with both amps in the chain you can pick what you're in the mood for during a particular listening session. This is a HUGE advantage! 

The only thing I can't recommend the taboo for is IEM/CIEM use. It's a bit too noisy in the background with very very sensitive drivers sitting right in your ear. Tube noise etc. Maybe it's the level of gain in the amps design? I guess if it's able to drive speakers well (Which it does) it has to give somewhere.

FWIW, the headphone out on the CSP is silent with IEM. sending the CSP signal to a small portable IEM amp works very well too for in ears.


----------



## koiloco

Though, I only owned the Taboo MKIII for a brief period of time.  I indeed loved the sound quality/signature it gave me on my HE500 very much.  The Taboo had no problem driving/bringing the best bass and low end extension from my HE500 while maintaining great airy mid and silky high.


----------



## longbowbbs

mwindham08 said:


> I get my csp3 today, very excited!


 
 Very Nice!


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> I get my csp3 today, very excited!




Congratulations! Please post some thoughts when you stop jumping up and down and can think sensibly.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> Yes, in my opinion, to your question about the low end. Not anemic. It can be tweaked with tube choice to fatten or lean out the bottom.
> 
> The Taboo on it's own is fantastic with the LCD-3. I could happily live with that pairing alone. *I consider adding the CSP3 as more of a different flavor, rather than a universal improvement*. It adds some sonic advantages but at a slight loss of certain other areas. It's preference whether you will like it alone or with the pre. However, with both amps in the chain you can pick what you're in the mood for during a particular listening session. This is a HUGE advantage!


 
  I agree more with what you wrote earlier about the addition of the CSP3.  It adds weight and body, which I attribute to increased gain.  I view this as a universal improvement (with LCD-3's).  I think you're right though, in that it'll be personal preference on whether or not one likes the Taboo with or without the CSP3. But it's been hard for me to come up with negatives.  I really like it.
  
  
 Quote:


mwindham08 said:


> I get my csp3 today, very excited!


 

 Yay!  Let us know, in about a week or so, what you think.


----------



## mwindham08

thegrobe said:


> The only thing I can't recommend the taboo for is IEM/CIEM use. It's a bit too noisy in the background with very very sensitive drivers sitting right in your ear. Tube noise etc. Maybe it's the level of gain in the amps design? I guess if it's able to drive speakers well (Which it does) it has to give somewhere.


 
 Have you tried turning the output knobs on the csp3 really low and playing IEM's through the Taboo that way? Might reduce noise to where they are listenable. May not work at all just something I thought about.


----------



## thegrobe

opr8r said:


> I agree more with what you wrote earlier about the addition of the CSP3.  It adds weight and body, which I attribute to increased gain.  I view this as a universal improvement (with LCD-3's).  I think you're right though, in that it'll be personal preference on whether or not one likes the Taboo with or without the CSP3. But it's been hard for me to come up with negatives.  I really like it.


 
  
 Yeah, agreed, this "different flavor" I do like more, and personally consider it an improvement....I just like to be careful about what I recommend. I don't want to go saying it's 100% better for every user - Some may like the leaner more transparent (and less expenditure) of the Taboo alone. Different results with different DAC's, headphones, etc. as well. That said, I do like going back and forth - that is great to have options - but I do always prefer CSP3+Taboo in the end. Yes it is really hard to come up with negatives about adding the pre - except well maybe the $, LOL
  


mwindham08 said:


> Have you tried turning the output knobs on the csp3 really low and playing IEM's through the Taboo that way? Might reduce noise to where they are listenable. May not work at all just something I thought about.


 
  
 Well, they are listenable. Just noisier than I prefer in quiet sections and between songs. This is without the CSP3 even in the chain, or in fact with nothing plugged into the taboo inputs at all. I just find a small dedicated IEM amp better in this regard. And the CSP3 can be used to feed the IEM amp to get the tube goodness going.
  
 I notice the CSP3 and Taboo sitting side by side, the tubes on the Taboo glow much brighter. I'm not sure the specifics of what that means but it seems to me the Taboo must be cranking lots more energy through it. More power and gain to drive speakers- it has to give somewhere, right? If its the ability to use IEM's that's fine.
  
 One thing I think I should try- now that I'm thinking about it. I'm going to try cleaning all the pins and sockets with Deoxit, maybe I'm getting a little noise from a dirty contact. My CSP3 had a little noise on the left channel when it arrived new, I cleaned the socket and the noise disappeared. I need to pick up more cleaner -then I'll give it a try.


----------



## negura

thegrobe said:


> Well, they are listenable. Just noisier than I prefer in quiet sections and between songs. This is without the CSP3 even in the chain, or in fact with nothing plugged into the taboo inputs at all. I just find a small dedicated IEM amp better in this regard. And the CSP3 can be used to feed the IEM amp to get the tube goodness going.


 
 It also depends on the IEMs. If they're less efficient then the hum is barely noticeable during quiet sections. If they are VERY efficient  then yeah ... don't bother.


----------



## thegrobe

negura said:


> It also depends on the IEMs. If they're less efficient then the hum is barely noticeable during quiet sections. If they are VERY efficient  then yeah ... don't bother.


 
  
 Agreed, this may be a big part of my issue - certainly. I only have multi driver, BA in ears. Very sensitive. Still useable, just not ideal.


----------



## OPR8R

thegrobe said:


> I just like to be careful about what I recommend.


 
 I have similar reservations when asked my opinion


----------



## WNBC

It's always interesting to stop listening to the rig for a while then coming back and hearing it with new ears.  CSP3 + Taboo + Alpha Dogs continues to impress.  I also changed up my source a bit and I'm finding some annoyances have gone away.  The hum I was hearing before seems to have left.  New cable (Q-audio) and new computer (MacBook Pro).  Feeding my DAC from a better USB source seems to have "cleaned up" a lot of things.  Either that or some ground loop present before has left the area.


----------



## longbowbbs

Sweet system WNBC!


----------



## koiloco

Very pretty looking system.  I like it.  No more noise/hum issue ?  That is great to hear.


----------



## OPR8R

Those Alpha Dogs are really  nice looking.


----------



## WNBC

Very strange to me but definitely welcomed.  I didn't switch out tubes or power outlets.  The rig sat quiet for a period of almost 2 weeks.  I switched from a MacMini to MacBook Pro.  My previous Taboo MKII was dead quiet and I had been missing that since getting the MKIII.  However, now I'm now back to the black background with the MKIII.  It does change the listening experience not worrying about that little buzz during quiet passages or in between songs.  Really strange but oh well.        
        
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Very pretty looking system.  I like it.  No more noise/hum issue ?  That is great to hear.


----------



## mwindham08

Anyone considering getting the LCD-X? After reading DSG's mini review I really want to hear one. Sounds exactly like the type of sound I would like.


----------



## OPR8R

mwindham08 said:


> Anyone considering getting the LCD-X? After reading DSG's mini review I really want to hear one. Sounds exactly like the type of sound I would like.


 
  
 I'm still in love with the LCD-3.


----------



## Argo Duck

I _was_ interested. Have been following impressions on a site that ends in 'star' as well. Overall, I find the impressions confusing. I found dubstep's very confusing but reversing a few words here and there it fell into place - DSG must've writing in a hurry! Makes me think more impressions and solid reviews are needed.

There does seem to be partial agreement from different head-fiers the X is less resolving than the 3. Makes sense - if the X was better you'd either price it higher or price the 3 down. This issue of resolution makes me keep the LCD3 on my target list.

If it's true the X is 'more neutral', it should be a good fit with Taboo and other highly tuneable tube amps.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am glad the Audeze guys keep pushing their own envelope. I also appreciate their connectedness with the community. Sennheiser is too big to really worry about that.
  
 OTOH, I love my HD800's and they are likely endgame HP's for me.  (for now....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## negura

Folks,
  
 I've finalised an assessment in regards to various noises and hums heard on the Taboo. When I initially received my Taboo I was very investigative with it in trying to find if there was any noise, hum or anything unbecoming. It was dead silent with everything I threw at it (I am not sure whether I tried IEMs, but I tried several open/closed headphones). But lately with IEMs and more sensitive headphones I was finding a background hum. I initially discarded it as not very suitable to use with those headphones, but curiosity got the better of me.  So I started to swap a bunch of components in my system to try and narrow down to the root cause. 
  
*How to test:* Make sure nothing is playing, no windows sounds etc, no unexpected Skype calls. Plug in IEMs. Max the volum pot out on the Taboo and any preamp volume. If you hear 0 hum you're 100% good. If you hear any hum then this is where the fun starts.
  
 I have found* three root causes *to noise/hum:
  
 1. *Mains line noise.* This is 90%+ solved with a power regen. If you plug your components directly into the mains unless you're really lucky and your mains is exceptionally clean you will end up getting some hum and all kinds of resident noises. In London and where I live the voltage alone is anywhere between 230 and 258V measured. I don't have an oscilloscope but I expect there are tons of nasties on the line as well. That will be heard directly as noise/hum via the Taboo PSU or other components (DAC etc).
  
 2. *USB power noise. *I use an USB cable with separate leads: one for power, one for data. USB power noise can potentially be reduced by using a laptop, a battery 5v supply or by using a linear regulated 5V power supply for USB connected to the above power regen. 
  
 3. *USB data line noise.* Now this is where it gets more interesting. There are tons of solutions for 1 and 2. But even with using galvanic isolation for power and anything that has you, if you have data line noise via USB it will be passed through with the music by all devices in turn. One of my laptops is 100% clean (HP Elitebook). The other one passes a faint trace of noise (Dell XPS), but it's nothing compared to the desktop PC for example. I am now looking to buy a SOTM tX-USBexp card for my desktop PC and see if that solves it there as well.
  
 Other potential causes:
 Tubes: My tubes are fine. I have tons of them so I swapped them all around. No difference once they get going.
 Unshielded Interconnects: If they are unshielded they can pick up all kinds of interference. I swapped a couple of sets included shielded ones to rule this one out. Not a problem for me either way.
  
 The Taboo is a very sensitive device. When all is well it is completely quiet, which is impressive especially for a tube amplifier. As I said 0 hum. However it's very sensitive and I like to think this translates into transparency. Feed it quality downstream, it will reward you.
  
 I am now enjoying IEMs on the Taboo with 0% hum.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ great post negura


----------



## negura

argo duck said:


> ^ great post negura


 
  
 Thanks. Even longer post now.  Hopefully it will help folks.


----------



## V-Duh

negura said:


> argo duck said:
> 
> 
> > ^ great post negura
> ...


 
 It got me thinking about identifying some noise I found unbearable the other night when I tried my Grados.  I plan on going through my whole system step-wise to identify where sound is getting in over the coming holiday weekend.  Power, tubes, negative energy, ground loop, cross-cable interference, elves, dirty contacts, USB issues, aurora borealis effects, dog slobber...  Should be fun!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Raz, great job on the post. It is very helpful to isolate all of the variables. I appreciate all the time you spent doing this.


----------



## WNBC

Is there an "affordable" power re-generator on the market?


----------



## uncola

Don't forget to test dimmer switches.  I just had an issue where a cheap dimmer switch caused my schiit mjolnir to buzz.  Turning off the lights controlled by the dimmer switch instantly fixed it.  Had to swap it out for a simple on/off light switch


----------



## mwindham08

So I tried swapping out the left and right tubes in the CSP3 with some Sylvania 6922 Jan Green labels. Both came in the original boxes, look mint and I assumed they were. When I turned it on, horrible screeching that is not present with the stock tubes. Kind of dissapointing as I was wanting to try them out. This was supposed to be a matched pair, I am guessing not? Anyone had any luck swapping tubes at these positions?


----------



## funch

The 6N1P's are the only ones that have worked for me in my CSP2+.
  
 Currently running these http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=263&osCsid=120be95196ce86494b308cab3546da4e
 and am perfectly happy.


----------



## thegrobe

First off - Negura, great post. Very helpful and informative. My Taboo came back from warranty transfer/checkup from Decware a few weeks back and they could not identify the background hum. Back home, I get a bit of hum. So I need to look into a power regenerator or isolation transformer, etc if I want to try something else. I will keep at it! The Taboo is most certainly sensitive! 
  
 Quote:


mwindham08 said:


> So I tried swapping out the left and right tubes in the CSP3 with some Sylvania 6922 Jan Green labels. Both came in the original boxes, look mint and I assumed they were. When I turned it on, horrible screeching that is not present with the stock tubes. Kind of dissapointing as I was wanting to try them out. This was supposed to be a matched pair, I am guessing not? Anyone had any luck swapping tubes at these positions?


 
  
 I tried a brand new pair of matched, tested Genelex 6922's from Jim McShane. No doubt these were good, well matched tubes. I put them in the CSP3 and got "pop! pop! pop! pop!" noises. Unfortunately, I let the pre warm up for 5 minutes or so before turning on the amp. so those sat there and popped - probably chewing them up before I noticed and turned it off. Apparently the SRRP circuit of the CSP3 is notoriously hard on tubes. I'm not sure if I can post the link here, but on the Decware forums, in the CSP3 section, the "CSP first pics" thread, there is quite a discussion by those who have been trying tube rolling in the CSP3 - pretty much only the 6N1P are proving reliable. I'm pretty sure I ruined my brand new pair of 6922.
  


funch said:


> The 6N1P's are the only ones that have worked for me in my CSP2+.
> 
> Currently running these http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=263&osCsid=120be95196ce86494b308cab3546da4e
> and am perfectly happy.


 
  
 So after my failed experiment with the 6922, and upon recommendation from others on the Decware forum, I ordered up a matched pair of the super-cryo Cryoset 6N1P that Funch posted above. They are solid as a rock and sound great. I'm done rolling the output tubes on the CSP3. I find plenty of fine tuning with just the rectifier and input tube.


----------



## funch

Yah, the Decware forum is where I got the recommendation for the tubes as well.
  
 I just got in a pair of these http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tungsram-6bq5-el84-branded-ei/ and am finding them quite enjoyable
 in my Taboo II.


----------



## V-Duh

> Decware on Original Lucid Mode:
> "The effects of lucid mode change with impedance so when heard on 50 ohm headphones the imaging gets much tighter with a strong center image out in front of the listener rather than inside his or her head."
> 
> Decware on New Lucid Mode:
> "...we developed a second lucid mode targeted at the 50 ohm range of headphones...."


 
 Do these comments from Decware suggest the Taboo will be more appealing (using Lucid modes) with the Audeze LCD-2/3 (60/45 ohms) than the LCD-X (22 ohms)?


----------



## koiloco

I personally did not find lucid mode appealing at all. Kind of gimmicky. In my brief experience, it works on only very few tracks in my collection. As an amp, the taboo is wonderful at driving planars. Make sure u get the balanced 4 pin xlr and ur HPs run off that balanced connection cuz 1/4 will have to have original lucid mode on permanently to sound right cuz of merged grounds. I didn't like this a bit.


----------



## negura

koiloco said:


> I personally did not find lucid mode appealing at all. Kind of gimmicky. In my brief experience, it works on only very few tracks in my collection. As an amp, the taboo is wonderful at driving planars. Make sure u get the balanced 4 pin xlr and ur HPs run off that balanced connection cuz 1/4 will have to have original lucid mode on permanently to sound right cuz of merged grounds. I didn't like this a bit.


 
  
 +1 The same in all respects. Balanced is the way to go. The lucid modes I never use as the Taboo is fantastic as is & I am not actually finding myself using that gimmick. It's an work-around for using single ended.


----------



## koiloco

Just to put things in perspective, the taboo mkIII drove my he500 better than my wa22 does now. After all, taboo was born as a speaker amp and he500 lovesssss speaker amps.


----------



## mwindham08

How does the cryoset differ from the stock tubes? Thanks for the suggestions guys, makes me feel a bit better that my tubes aren't bad at least.


----------



## WNBC

Definitely a track-to-track decision with lucid modes.  Some tracks do benefit from it.  Many do not.  I definitely give Steve credit for experimenting with the lucid modes.  They definitely do some 'interesting' things to the sound.  Widens the soundstage and brings the sound up front and center as well as increases the listening volume.    
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> I personally did not find lucid mode appealing at all. Kind of gimmicky. In my brief experience, it works on only very few tracks in my collection. As an amp, the taboo is wonderful at driving planars. Make sure u get the balanced 4 pin xlr and ur HPs run off that balanced connection cuz 1/4 will have to have original lucid mode on permanently to sound right cuz of merged grounds. I didn't like this a bit.


----------



## koiloco

wnbc said:


>


 
 Yup, for using no DSP, that's taboo magic in itself.
  
 Though, I don't have the taboo anymore, I still remember and really appreciate how good it sounds with my HE500.  Now even with a Woo WA22, it's great overall for HD800, Q701 and does a good job with HE500 but everything else/problems aside, I still think taboo has a little edge over WA22 at driving my HE500.


----------



## WNBC

In terms of the WA22, was the Taboo better at driving the HE-500 in regards to volume or was it something else that the Taboo did better?  I've never heard the Woo amps so I'm not familiar with their sound signature.  
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Yup, for using no DSP, that's taboo magic in itself.
> 
> Though, I don't have the taboo anymore, I still remember and really appreciate how good it sounds with my HE500.  Now even with a Woo WA22, it's great overall for HD800, Q701 and does a good job with HE500 but everything else/problems aside, I still think taboo has a little edge over WA22 at driving my HE500.


----------



## V-Duh

negura said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > I personally did not find lucid mode appealing at all. Kind of gimmicky. In my brief experience, it works on only very few tracks in my collection. As an amp, the taboo is wonderful at driving planars. Make sure u get the balanced 4 pin xlr and ur HPs run off that balanced connection cuz 1/4 will have to have original lucid mode on permanently to sound right cuz of merged grounds. I didn't like this a bit.
> ...


 
 I also have not found many tracks that work well with the Lucid modes.  However, as of yet, all my cans are dynamic and SE so I thought maybe this was the reason for my impression of the Lucid modes.
  
 In an effort to decide between purchasing the LCD-3 and the LCD-X, I was trying to differentiate the two based on Decware's Lucid design scheme with 50-ish ohm cans.  If going to a balanced planar (regardless of impedence) will not make substantive difference to the Lucid modes than this approach has little merit.
  
 So, as a straight amp, the Taboo may work fine with the lower impedence LCD-X.  It seems like it would be easier to tune the Taboo to the LCD-X having been described as a bit brighter than the LCD-3 and a good "all rounder" [MH quote].


----------



## negura

I don't see why it wouldn't be driving the LCD-Xs really well. I used to run the Sennheiser Momentum on the Taboo and that one is 18 Ohms impedance, so likely even more sensitive than the LCD-Xs.


----------



## Argo Duck

I presume the benefit of the lucid mode ('m talking about the Taboo II here - it's was my first Decware and what I still use with my LCD2) is that it helps expand the sound-stage of the LCD2. My one solid-state option that sounds acceptable next to the Taboo interestingly has cross feed (Meier Classic).

Steve explained in his (Decware) thread about the Taboo III that the re-design came about because he _bought an LCD2_ and felt he could do much better than the standard lucid mode with this phone.

But now we come to the LCD3 and X, which I understand have better sound-staging than the 2: lucid modes not needed, perhaps?. If other phones with wider/deeper staging than LCD2s don't benefit from lucid, then it may be lucid is mostly a one-trick (LCD2, Grado RS1 etc) pony where phones are concerned?

I do like lucid with speakers though.


----------



## negura

I think it's more that once you go balanced, the old lucid mode is of very limited use. And the new one highly situational/gimmicky. This is with MK3.
  
 There's a good point about single ended use though.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes, could be balanced makes the difference. Have yet to build a set of pig-tails to drive my LCD2 straight off the speaker taps - that will be educational I'm sure.

FWIW, my DAC (BMC's PureDAC) has a very good built-in amp which I use balanced with the LCD2. Sounds good (maybe better than the Meier) but still prefer the LCD2 single-ended with the Taboo (and, obviously, standard lucid as the SE alternative is mono!).


----------



## funch

argo duck said:


> Yes, could be balanced makes the difference. Have yet to build a set of pig-tails to drive my LCD2 straight off the speaker taps - that will be educational I'm sure.


 
  
 I use a pigtail-to-4 pin female XLR to connect my LCD2's to the speaker taps on my Taboo II. Definitely superior to the TRS jack on the Taboo.


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  I've been thinking about this.  My understanding is that there is only a small resistor in the headphone path so it can't be more power that makes the speaker taps better.  Or is this a wrong a assumption?
  
 Does it have to be a 4-pin female XLR to bananas?  Can it be a 6.3mm female TRS to bananas as well?
  
  
 Quote:


funch said:


> I use a pigtail-to-4 pin female XLR to connect my LCD2's to the speaker taps on my Taboo II. Definitely superior to the TRS jack on the Taboo.


----------



## funch

These observations are for a Taboo II, not III. Refer to Decware's website for a diagram of the current version III.
  
 No resistors pass between the positive speaker posts and the TRS jack.
  
 There is one 4R7/5W resistor that connects between the right channel negative speaker post and the TRS ground when the lucid switch is on.
  
 With the lucid mode off, a second 4R7/5W resistor is connected between the left channel negative speaker post to the TRS ground as well.
  
 The TRS ground is not connected to earth ground, nor are the speaker tap's negative terminals, so I don't think a TRS pigtail would work.
  
 *After reading the manual further, I've revised my post in regard to the lucid switch. I believe the description of the positioning of the switch
 as to 'on' and 'off' in the manual to be reversed.*


----------



## WNBC

Thank you for the info.  Very useful.
  
 Quote:


funch said:


> The TRS ground is not connected to earth ground, nor are the speaker tap's negative terminals, so I don't think a TRS pigtail would work.


----------



## Charnwood

If I recall correctly the old lucid mode was originally intended for use with speakers and so the effect with the lower impedance LCD-X should be closer to what was originally intended. I'm not sure that would be an improvement given that new lucid mode was intended for LCD-2's.
  
 I do use the old lucid mode with my LCD-2's occasionally, it gives me a bit of space when things get little closed in.
  
 On another topic, I've had a Metrum Octave Mk2 DAC ever since I've had my Taboo but it hasn't been my preferred DAC with headphones. That changed yesterday when I listened to my newly acquired Mr Speaker Alpha Dogs. With the Chord they sounded good and very pleasant to listen to but they weren't quiet up to the level that my HD800's or even my HD600's were capable of. With the Metrum Octave it was a different story and somewhat to my surprise the Alpha Dogs comfortably surpassed what the Senns on most of the material I listened to.
  
 I haven't yet compared the LCD-2's with the Alpha Dogs.


----------



## koiloco

wnbc said:


>


 
 Even with stock tubes, taboo mkIII did better in the bass department, punchier and a touch more impact.  For a tube amp, the Taboo gave the HE500 a more lively sound signature in comparison to WA22.  Planar HPs do work great with speaker amps which the taboo originated from.  To my ears, WA22 is better at driving dynamic HPs though.  The HD800/WA22 is a deadly addicted combo.  Not so with HE500/WA22.


----------



## koiloco

argo duck said:


> *Steve explained in his (Decware) thread about the Taboo III that the re-design came about because he bought an LCD2 and felt he could do much better than the standard lucid mode with this phone.*


 
 To be honest, I read that too and when I got the taboo home and switched the new lucid mode on, I said to myself "wth anyone would do something like this?  to me it was beyond screwing around with the sound stage/music"  The original lucid mode however is good sometimes for opening up certain tracks.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I gotta get those pig-tails built, which would give my (2011-build) Taboo II the option of lucid vs _stereo_. Then I can compare more directly than the Taboo versus Amp X or Y approach.

TBH I did ponder what motivated development of new-lucid. The balanced HP out had me much more interested... 

But after a lot of thought I decided to gamble the Taboo II would only be minimally bettered by the III's new lucid mode, beeswax caps, balanced out and change of signal tube. And well - it's close to two years I've had the II and I'm still at least pleased every time I listen to it and often just blown away. I think that speaks to it being a great basic design, no matter which model one has...


----------



## WNBC

Indeed!  I had Taboo MKII (VCaps) but sold it to pursue what the portable world had to offer.  Now I have the MKIII.  I can't say the MKIII blows the MKII out of the water.  Definitely more features in MKIII but MKII was a solid performer such that MKII owners should not feel the need to upgrade.  At least that's my opinion based on audio memory.  I'd have to hear both again side by side to do a proper review.  However, tonally, the MKIII has not diverged from the Decware house sound.   
  
  
 Quote:


argo duck said:


> ^ I gotta get those pig-tails built, which would give my (2011-build) Taboo II the option of lucid vs _stereo_. Then I can compare more directly than the Taboo versus Amp X or Y approach.
> 
> TBH I did ponder what motivated development of new-lucid. The balanced HP out had me much more interested...
> 
> But after a lot of thought I decided to gamble the Taboo II would only be minimally bettered by the III's new lucid mode, beeswax caps, balanced out and change of signal tube. And well - it's close to two years I've had the II and I'm still at least pleased every time I listen to it and often just blown away. I think that speaks to it being a great basic design, no matter which model one has...


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers WNBC. I hear you on the measurement side. But that's good to know  

(Side note: I'm not _quite_ convinced audio memory is as poor as some assert. Given how memory is currently modelled, the real question is how reliably a given audiophile brain translates a given audio stimulus to "this sounds like audiophile term x"., e.g. "dry!". Words are easy to remember. But this is not for this thread and probably not for head-fi!).


----------



## funch

AiDee, WNBC
  
 I also have the MKII and am very happy with it, although I've not heard a MKIII. One thing my MKII has that the III doesn't is a choke in the power supply.
 Because of the meters, there's no room for the choke. This leads me to believe that the MKII is potentially 'better' than the MKIII. The MKIII has more
 'gee whiz' features, but for me, the MKII is just fine.
  
 I've upgraded mine with beeswax cap's, Cardas input wire, a Goldpoint stepped attenuator, and Takman input resistors, and drive it from a CSP2+.
 I have to agree with AiDee that it never disappoints, and many times amazes, so I'm not looking to upgrade any time soon.


----------



## clowkoy

FYI, the "choke" in the Taboo II is an output transformer.


----------



## funch

Yah, it is actually a transformer with the output wires cut short and heatshrinked. I guess that was cheaper for them than using a dedicated choke.


----------



## mwindham08




----------



## mwindham08

I know everyone has pretty much seen this duo before but I figured I would upload some photos anyway. 
 The woods do look different, as you can see the CSP3 is has some lighter tones. Honestly it doesn't bother me as much
 as I thought it would both are gorgeous in their own way and I'm fine with that. 
  
 As for the sound I'm still experimenting with tube combinations but I definitely like the combination.
 I pretty much agree with what has been said already, extra body and weight with a little less transparency.
 Overall I feel the decrease in transparency is worth it, especially with speakers.
 The DM945's sound much fuller and the extra gain goes a long way when playing quieter tracks, Led Zeppelin I for example.
  
 I have my output knobs at the 7th level, out of 11. For headphones it could probably be at 6 but 7 lets me keep
 it the same while listening to headphones and speakers, I only have to rotate the volume knob to an adequate level. 
  
 As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have only had success with the stock tubes in the left and right output positions.
 Between the input and rectifier tubes however I should be kept pretty busy. 
  
 I would highly recommend the CSP3 for anyone with the Taboo. It just brings alot to the table and adds alot of options
 and flexibility to an already fantastic system.


----------



## longbowbbs

The DM945's are excellent with that combo! Nice!


----------



## WNBC

Sweet rig there.  
  
 For volumes I've been keeping the Taboo at full power and CSP3 volume between 9-12 o'clock with the output tubes at 75% power.  Seems to be my sweet spot.  
  
 I probably will get speakers in several months to a year when I move to a house.  I probably will return to the Blumenstein's again and maybe throw in their sub as well.  Stick a fork in me please.
  
 Tubes are trickier with 2 amps.  I am still figuring it out.  Mostly using stock tubes except for a RCA 5U4G in the Taboo and Mazda 5Y3GB in CSP3.  I suppose I could end the madness with several safe picks.  Throw in some EML 5U4Gs in both amps and outfit them with all modern Genalex Gold Lion EL84s and 6922s.  But that would be too easy and boring 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
  
 Quote:


mwindham08 said:


> As for the sound I'm still experimenting with tube combinations but I definitely like the combination.
> I pretty much agree with what has been said already, extra body and weight with a little less transparency.
> Overall I feel the decrease in transparency is worth it, especially with speakers.
> The DM945's sound much fuller and the extra gain goes a long way when playing quieter tracks, Led Zeppelin I for example.
> ...


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys, did anybody try the LCD-X with taboo MK3? If yes, what do you think of the combo?


----------



## longbowbbs

I have not seen anyone with that combo yet. I would love those impressions!


----------



## Kendoji

Had a fun moment today.  My girlfriend and I had just discovered the lovely new Agnes Obel album 'Aventine' and were enjoying it playing through my Taboo mkIII to my speakers.  Then I plugged in my HE-500 and HD 800 and we swapped back and forth a bit.  At a certain point I flicked on new lucid mode and my girlfriend went 'WOAAH'.  I think she had the Sennheisers at the time.  A few minutes later I flicked it back off, and a look of horror flashed across her face as she went 'NOOO PUT IT BACK'.  New lucid mode works well on this abum.


----------



## OPR8R

kendoji said:


> Had a fun moment today.  My girlfriend and I had just discovered the lovely new Agnes Obel album 'Aventine' and were enjoying it playing through my Taboo mkIII to my speakers.  Then I plugged in my HE-500 and HD 800 and we swapped back and forth a bit.  At a certain point I flicked on new lucid mode and my girlfriend went 'WOAAH'.  I think she had the Sennheisers at the time.  A few minutes later I flicked it back off, and a look of horror flashed across her face as she went 'NOOO PUT IT BACK'.  New lucid mode works well on this abum.


 
  
 Sweet.  Some stuff works really well with New Lucid.  Also, I'll have to give Agnes Obel a listen.


----------



## WNBC

If anyone is interested I wrote up my opinion about the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog driven by the CSP + Taboo.  I'm curious as to whether other Taboo owners are enjoying the combo as well.  I think the Alpha Dog benefits from a tube amp like the Taboo.  Lucid mode helps give Alpha Dog needed width and depth on some tracks.  Definitely not needed with all tracks.  Then there is the power and Decware house sound which compliments the neutrality of the Alpha Dog.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-t50rp-mod/reviews/9993


----------



## OPR8R

wnbc said:


> If anyone is interested I wrote up my opinion about the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog driven by the CSP + Taboo.  I'm curious as to whether other Taboo owners are enjoying the combo as well.  I think the Alpha Dog benefits from a tube amp like the Taboo.  Lucid mode helps give Alpha Dog needed width and depth on some tracks.  Definitely not needed with all tracks.  Then there is the power and Decware house sound which compliments the neutrality of the Alpha Dog.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-t50rp-mod/reviews/9993


 

 Wow.  That's a very well written review.  I only listened to the AD briefly, but I liked it a lot.  They're really good.


----------



## Kendoji

Sweet. Yeah I'm day-dreaming about the Alpha Dogs as an upgrade towards a great transportable / portable rig (I love the idea of Alpha Dogs and 4 pin XLR with a Centrance Hifi M8), but I'm holding off as I just can't justify it. Yet.


----------



## thegrobe

Okay, here's a weird one...
  
 Of course you folks following this thread remember my comments about background hum with IEM's, pretty much makes the amp not useable for me with them. I sent the amp back to have it checked out, everything was normal, warranty was transferred so it wasn't a wasted trip at least. Then remember Negura posting about the Taboo being a sensitive instrument, advice about power conditioning, etc. ? 
  
 So I continue to fool around with this, as I REALLY want my Taboo background silent so I can use my CIEM's. The CSP3 background is dead quiet, the CIEM's work well with that side of the pair, but not on the Taboo side.
  
 Well the Taboo is most certainly sensitive. Check this out. I have the Taboo next to the CSP3, naturally. I plugged my CIEM into the Taboo, with the Taboo TURNED OFF. But the CSP3 was turned on. I could hear the background hum.... with the Taboo turned OFF. Weird. So I figure something is coming through the cables maybe? I disconnect the speaker wires, the RCA interconnect, event the power cable feeding the Taboo. Nothing hooked up to it. 
  
 I turn the CSP3 on, plug my CIEM into the Taboo and guess what? Background hum. The same noise I'm hearing when the Taboo is on by itself. This is crazy. I pick the Taboo up and move it about two feet away and the noise stops. Something inside the Taboo is acting as an antenna and picking up "hum" from the transformer. Either the transformer of the CSP sitting beside it, or naturally it would pick up the hum from it's own parts as well. So this explains why it hums. 
  
 Soooo...should I send it back again? Or does anyone have an idea of why this is happening and a possible fix? I LOVE this amp but this one thing bugs me and would like it not hum. Totally weird that it can be fully disconnected and have a background hum by just sitting next to another amp. 
  
 Also anyone else with a CSP pre and a Taboo that has a little background hum, see if you can recreate this?
  
 TOTALLY WEIRD
  
 ...TABOO?


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Interesting. Reminds me of Hertz' (1887) demonstration of radio transmission:





WNBC, _excellent_ review!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks guys for the compliments.  Now the search for an open headphone.  
  
 thegrobe, hum is such a mysterious thing that I don't know how to even tackle it.  Now my CSP + Taboo is pretty quiet.  However, in the past even with cheater plugs an annoying hum was present which would indicate something internal was picking up a signal.  Didn't matter whether a source was hooked up.  I don't know how it fixed itself but one day it was gone.  Even with my Q-audio cable I'm hearing less background noise/hum than with my XLR cable.  Weird, right?  Should be the other way around.  Frank in his review mentioned that the Taboo hooked up to the CSP would result in increased hum.    
  
 Have you talked to Steve about the Taboo and CIEMs?  Do you hear a hum with your LCD-3s?  I thought the Taboo was not designed to be used with efficient headphones or IEMs.     
  
 Experiment with different length cables?  Kind of bummer because most of like to put the amps right next to each other.


----------



## thegrobe

wnbc said:


> Thanks guys for the compliments.  Now the search for an open headphone.
> *
> Yes, great review btw! Thanks for the effort!*
> 
> ...


----------



## WNBC

My understanding is that the Taboo was first designed as a speaker amp and then Frank talked to Steve about using them with planar magnetic headphones back in 2010.  The rest is history....
http://dagogo.com/decware-taboo-mkiii-headphone-amplifier-review
  
 I really liked the Taboo with a pair of woody Grado 225i but there was too much hiss and hum to enjoy it during soft passages.  Efficient headphones are just too sensitive and your background won't be so black.  That's not to say they won't sound good at normal listening volumes.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Exactly right. Steve's write up of the Taboo II on Decware's website referred to it being a planar-magnetic hp as well as speaker amp (what it was originally designed for), with the CSP2 covering other phones.

I bought the Taboo II specifically for my LCD2, although it does sound pretty good with Grado RS1 too.
---
Grobe, probably way off the mark but my thought about your hum is induction. The transformers may be tuned circuits for each other., i.e. the live one 'transmits' to the one 'turned off'. Rather like the primary and secondary windings on a transformer in fact, but air rather than iron cored in this case.

If the hp outs on the Taboo are in circuit with the transformer then...

Don't know how you can solve this during live play though, other than keep them two feet apart


----------



## thegrobe

Ah, interesting stuff. Maybe it's all normal and I'm neurotic!

AiDee, the idea about keeping them two feet apart is novel, but I get the same effect running the Taboo on it's own, as it picks up noise from itself also. Induction like you said?... From either it's own or a nearby (CSP3) amp. I was just really surprised to hear it humming and not plugged in! LOL


----------



## Argo Duck

Oh! Didn't realise you got it when running by itself too. This means it's 'receiving' its hum from something else. I'm less convinced it can be picking up hum from itself; at least I would expect the character of it to be quite different from the apparently CSP-induced hum (with Taboo off). Is it?

Have you tried it in different rooms? This is to eliminate some source local to your room. Maybe it's acting like an old crystal set?!

You're not neurotic. Well, not unless all audiophiles are


----------



## negura

I decided to post this in the Decware appreciation thread as it applies to most amps: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593623/decware-appreciation-thread-mt-review-up-on-first-page-2-10-12/1140#post_10040051
  
 This is also a goodbye for me to the Taboo MK3. Half-heartdely it is going away to a close friend, as I have moved to Stax and speakers. I had many too short nights and a super quality time with the Taboo and it will be missed.


----------



## negura

Post updated: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593623/decware-appreciation-thread-mt-review-up-on-first-page-2-10-12/1140#post_10040051


----------



## benjaminhuypham

How does Taboo compare to Eddie Current Super 7? Both are in the same price range. Has anyone ever had a chance to listen to both?


----------



## dexster

benjaminhuypham said:


> How does Taboo compare to Eddie Current Super 7? Both are in the same price range. Has anyone ever had a chance to listen to both?


 
  
 same; i am in the market for my first tube amp... and have narrowed it down to the super 7 and taboo mk3
  
 done some reading on both but able to find any head to head comparisons
  
  
 i have already purchased a zstage from decware to have a play with....


----------



## longbowbbs

I don't believe you are going to find one "Better" They are both excellent with their own sound signature and tube rolling will allow you to customize further. Two great amps.


----------



## mwindham08

Decware amps come with a lifetime warranty and eddie current only has a 5 year warranty, so that is something to consider as well.


----------



## benjaminhuypham

Thanks everyone, both seem like super amps for HD 800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Decware Taboo MK3's construction looks a lot like Bottlehead Crack Amp, very sexy as hell. Maybe, I can rob the bank and order both to do the comparison


----------



## thegrobe

benjaminhuypham said:


> Thanks everyone, both seem like super amps for HD 800  . Decware Taboo MK3's construction looks a lot like Bottlehead Crack Amp, very sexy as hell. Maybe, I can rob the bank and order both to do the comparison:etysmile:




I've got a pair of HD800 on the way. I'll be sure to post my impressions for you. Although there's lots of mentions on this thread and others that it's a great pairing.


----------



## benjaminhuypham

Thanks thegrobe, I'm looking forward to read your review.


----------



## negura

thegrobe said:


> I've got a pair of HD800 on the way. I'll be sure to post my impressions for you. Although there's lots of mentions on this thread and others that it's a great pairing.



 


Prepare your warmest EL84s


----------



## thegrobe

negura said:


> thegrobe said:
> 
> 
> > I've got a pair of HD800 on the way. I'll be sure to post my impressions for you. Although there's lots of mentions on this thread and others that it's a great pairing.
> ...




Will do....Thanks for the tip!


----------



## dexster

i was pretty much set on the taboo mk3.... as i thought i had already purchased the zstage
  
but decware has some abysmal customer service... sent 4 emails received and no reply
  
thankfully my credit card has not being charged for the zstage -  so i have cancelled that order (if anyone bothers to read the emails) and have committed to a zana deux
  
just on specs it looks pretty good and i can not wait for my first tube amp to arrive
  
  
i guess it all turned out for the best in the end


----------



## longbowbbs

Decware always responds best to phone calls rather than e-mail. This is a small family run company not some big corporation with a bank of service reps. The whole firm is only 6 people. Also per their order policy, they do not charge until they ship so nothing amazing about you having not been charged yet for the Zstage.


----------



## negura

dexster said:


> i was pretty much set on the taboo mk3.... as i thought i had already purchased the zstage
> 
> but decware has some abysmal customer service... sent 4 emails received and no reply
> 
> ...


 
  
 If they registered your order, which as it seems is a manual operation for whenever someone gets to it, you will be charged the deposit. That you will unlikely get back.
 Their process, for any reason including the company size etc, is not always very easy for the client. I always had to try hard contacting them for clarity or any changes.
  
 I agree it's not an isolated problem to Decware. Other small companies are difficult to communicate with. Not all though.


----------



## parbaked

Hey guys, when you use your Taboo with a CSP do you just leave Taboo volume full on and adjust volume with the CSP?
 That seems more logical than the other way around but I've never used a pre-amp with an integrated amp.
 Thanks....


----------



## longbowbbs

That is what I did. Worked great for me.


----------



## longbowbbs

Just got an e-mail from Steve about Decware's E-mail trouble....:
  
  






 
 Hi Eric,
We're sorry to bother you!  Our e-mails at decware.com were _*blacklisted*_ on DEC 12 at approximately 3:12 P.M. for reasons yet to be discovered - meaning that all attempts to e-mail anyone at decware.com will result in bounced e-mails.   We can't receive these e-mails that are sent to decware.com. 
*NEW CONTACT EMAILS:*
*Sarah:* sarah@zenamps.com   _(was sarah @ decware.com)_
*DeVon:* dev@zenamps.com _﻿ ﻿﻿(was dev @ decware.com)﻿﻿﻿_
*Steve:* steve@zenamps.com _(was zen @ decware.com)_
*Josh:* josh@zenamps.com _(was josh @ decware.com)_
 
Please use the above e-mails for future communications!


----------



## Argo Duck

Eric's right but if you have your Taboo and CSP tuned to sound different (e.g. one warmer the other leaner) you can also use _both_ volume controls together. Raising one as you lower the other keeps the level the same but changes the balance of CSP and Taboo. Steve Deckert described it briefly in one of his papers or posts and one of the guys (Will) over on the Decware forums took it to the n-th degree to control weight.



parbaked said:


> Hey guys, when you use your Taboo with a CSP do you just leave Taboo volume full on and adjust volume with the CSP?
> That seems more logical than the other way around but I've never used a pre-amp with an integrated amp.
> Thanks....


----------



## Argo Duck

Wow that's weird about Decware's email :eek:  Thanks for posting that Eric


----------



## thegrobe

parbaked said:


> Hey guys, when you use your Taboo with a CSP do you just leave Taboo volume full on and adjust volume with the CSP?
> That seems more logical than the other way around but I've never used a pre-amp with an integrated amp.
> Thanks....




To mirror the other comments, yes. That's generally the way I do it. However my CSP is the more colored of the two, if I have a specific recording that's a bit lean, bright etc, I'll knock the taboo down around 5 clicks from maximum, thus getting a bit more of the CSP flavor in the balance, as AiDee mentioned.

That's one thing I really like about running the pair, the fine tuning possibilities to get things just to your listening preference.


----------



## parbaked

Thanks guys...


----------



## OPR8R

I tend to keep my Taboo around 15 clicks, and use the CSP3 for volume adjustments...  But I'm kinda like thegrobe, and will fiddle to get stuff sounding the way I like, depending on recording.


----------



## longbowbbs

opr8r said:


> I tend to keep my Taboo around 15 clicks, and use the CSP3 for volume adjustments...  But I'm kinda like thegrobe, and will fiddle to get stuff sounding the way I like, depending on recording.


 
 Then you can fiddle with Lucid 1 or 2, then you can roll tubes....No end to tweeking!


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys,
  
 I am experiencing a subtle hum in the left channel with taboo mk3. It is apparent when you are not listening to music. Even if it is subtle (about 20hz I think), it gets annoying after a while.
  
 I have already ruled out ground loops and tubes. It is more apparent when I turn lucid modes on. With the old lucid mode int increases ~2 x times and with the new lucid mode 4 to 5 x times. 
  
 I can only hear it with low impedance headphones. Sennheiser HD800 doesn't get the humm. But LCD-X, Focal Spirit Classic & Professional and a pair of iems, do.
  
 Did anybody experience this?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Dan


----------



## WNBC

Hum in one channel is interesting.  Have you swapped out tubes?  
  
 As for subtle hum with more efficient, low impedance headphones, especially with new lucid mode engaged.  Definitely when I had Grado 325 and Fostex TH-600.  While these type of headphones will sound good with Taboo the noise floor is definitely higher when you move away from non-efficient planars for which this amp was designed for.  Does anybody with efficient, low impedance headphones not have a higher noise floor or subtle hum?    
  
  
  
 Quote:


dan.gheorghe said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am experiencing a subtle hum in the left channel with taboo mk3. It is apparent when you are not listening to music. Even if it is subtle (about 20hz I think), it gets annoying after a while.
> 
> ...


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Yes, I have swapped out tubes, isolated the taboo from the power-line and the other components in a power regenerator switched to battery mode. Went to another room, etc.
  
 The humm is apparent even when the lucid modes aren't on. However, it gets stronger with them on.
  
 Tried all the outputs, both single ended and balanced.
  
 It is also apparent with audeze LCD-X. It is true that it has only 22 ohms, but it needs some power, not like it's brothers, but it does.
  
 The humm is also independent of the volume.


----------



## Kendoji

Yep that's exactly like mine.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

kendoji said:


> Yep that's exactly like mine.


 
 So are experiencing the same type of hum that I have described?
  
 On what headphones? I assume the Grados, Denon and V-MODA. Am I right?


----------



## Kendoji

I hear it through all my headphones, even the planar Hifimans. I don't hear it when music is playing, apart from occasional quiet passages. It bugged me a lot in the beginning but it rarely bothers me now, especially as I'm using speakers more now where I don't hear it at all. One of the guys from these forums sent his back not long ago and Steve said it was fine, so I decided not to bother sending mine all the way from Amsterdam.


----------



## thegrobe

I received my HD800 yesterday. Wow, the CSP3/Taboo with them is pretty amazing. Too early for any real solid impressions though, but still very impressed. I so far only changed the taboo rectifier to an RCA 5Y3GT, other than that just using the same tubes as the LCD-3 for now. Tried the CSP3 alone and CSP3/Taboo pair. Haven't tried Taboo alone yet.

The LCD is like an antique leather chair and a cigar in some sort of library. Rich mahogany and leather clad books surrounding you. The HD800 it's like you're on a surgeons table. But strangely enough it's not scary at all. Maybe they've pumped you full of morphine so it's all good. And damn that surgeon knows what he's doing ....so you feel safe. I was worried about reports of hot or tizzy or unpleasant treble, but there's none of that. It's of course more thin bodied than the LCD, but not unpleasant or boring in any way. The imaging with the Decware setup and HD800 is crazy good.

I won't rehash any more of my discussion regarding hum (Dan you can search through the thread for my posts about it, which includes a return trip to Decware). I'm finding any hum with the LCD-3 to be so slight at this point, it's not an issue really. But there isn't ANY trace of hum with the HD800. So I figure it's noticeable depending somewhat on headphone impedance. 300 ohm- zero hum, 50 ohm LCD-3- very very slight, 22 ohm LCD-X?? Maybe more noticeable? Definitely intrusive on my 30 ohm, high sensitivity CIEM's.


----------



## WNBC

Awesome.  The HD800 is something I think about but wonder if I will like it is as much as the orthos.  HD800 + tubes = goodness?
  
  
 Quote:


thegrobe said:


> I received my HD800 yesterday. Wow, the CSP3/Taboo with them is pretty amazing. Too early for any real solid impressions though, but still very impressed. I so far only changed the taboo rectifier to an RCA 5Y3GT, other than that just using the same tubes as the LCD-3 for now. Tried the CSP3 alone and CSP3/Taboo pair. Haven't tried Taboo alone yet.
> 
> The LCD is like an antique leather chair and a cigar in some sort of library. Rich mahogany and leather clad books surrounding you. The HD800 it's like you're on a surgeons table. But strangely enough it's not scary at all. Maybe they've pumped you full of morphine so it's all good. And damn that surgeon knows what he's doing ....so you feel safe. I was worried about reports of hot or tizzy or unpleasant treble, but there's none of that. It's of course more thin bodied than the LCD, but not unpleasant or boring in any way. The imaging with the Decware setup and HD800 is crazy good.
> 
> I won't rehash any more of my discussion regarding hum (Dan you can search through the thread for my posts about it, which includes a return trip to Decware). I'm finding any hum with the LCD-3 to be so slight at this point, it's not an issue really. But there isn't ANY trace of hum with the HD800. So I figure it's noticeable depending somewhat on headphone impedance. 300 ohm- zero hum, 50 ohm LCD-3- very very slight, 22 ohm LCD-X?? Maybe more noticeable? Definitely intrusive on my 30 ohm, high sensitivity CIEM's.


----------



## longbowbbs

I liked the CSP/Taboo combo very much. The Taboo by itself and the CSP by itself are both excellent as well. I actually prefer the CSP with the HD800 rather than the Taboo if they are set up individually. The Combination gives more weight and power behind the signal. It would be interesting to listen to the combo vs say a Stratus or EC and see how they compare.


----------



## Parkie37

I have received two emails from Steve regarding problems with their internet provider. I will copy and paste his remarks to address the issue.

Hi Don,

I appreciate your e-mail. We have had nothing but trouble with our e-mails and internet all summer. Much of it out of our control. We don't ignore anyone on purpose of course, but sadly our business is located in a rural area and we have to get our internet and phone through the cable, which goes out constantly. There are no other high speed providers in our area. It doesn't seem normal to have the phone go out every time the internet goes out, but that's the reality and I'm sure it leads people who try to contact us to conclude that we "just don't care". It's so frustrating.

Please feel free to quote this if you post on head-fi. Right now I'm desperately trying to update over 400 suppliers with our new e-mail address. 

The following link can also be posted on headfi: http://www.decware.com/newsite/contacts.html 
It has our new contact e-mails listed.


- Steve Deckert

Decware / High Fidelity Engineering Co.
75 S. Riverview Dr. East Peoria IL 61611
Website: www.decware.com
Blog: zenamps.wordpress.com
Phone: (309) 822 5255
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This December all decware e-mails stopped working properly and as of Dec 12 were blocked entirely for reasons yet to be discovered. If you have had problems contacting us, this was likely the reason.

Sending any e-mails to decware.com results in a bounced e-mail and we of course never receive it.

We have updated our contact information on the web site with new e-mails.

Please update your records, and sorry for the inconvenience.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't blame any potential buyers for being unhappy when emails are not returned, but perhaps a phone call is in order before giving up on Decware. After all, you might have invested a chunk of money into one of their amps : )

I hope Steve gets this fixed and can focus on building great amps again!

Don


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys,
  
 I have been reading the thread a little and I have seen that there are a lot of users that experienced a hum with taboo.
  
 I would appreciate it if everybody who didn't solve this issue would write their experience with the hum and how it acts. ( for the ones that have it only on one channel as I do, did you find it affects the sound on that channel even if by a small amount? )
  
 Thanks,

 Dan


----------



## WNBC

Dan, hum is a mystery to a lot of us.  When we eliminate the influence of music source, tubes, and power source then that's a dead end as most of us are not able to work on these amps or we send it into Decware.  For example, I have a CSP3.  There is no hum unless I have the volume pot pinned to the left.  When it is pinned to the left there is an extremely loud hum whether using low or high impedance headphones of varying efficiencies.  Some contact is being made because when you turn the knob all the way left there is something metallic that forces it to stop moving.  When the volume knob is pinned to the left there is no hum.  Weird right?  Something I'm doing?  I can't figure it out.  In the end there is a hum from 6-7 o'clock on the dial.  From 7-5:59 o'clock there is no hum.  I should probably send it into Decware but the amp sounds fantastic.  What would you guys do?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

wnbc said:


> Dan, hum is a mystery to a lot of us.  When we eliminate the influence of music source, tubes, and power source then that's a dead end as most of us are not able to work on these amps or we send it into Decware.  For example, I have a CSP3.  There is no hum unless I have the volume pot pinned to the left.  When it is pinned to the left there is an extremely loud hum whether using low or high impedance headphones of varying efficiencies.  Some contact is being made because when you turn the knob all the way left there is something metallic that forces it to stop moving.  When the volume knob is pinned to the left there is no hum.  Weird right?  Something I'm doing?  I can't figure it out.  In the end there is a hum from 6-7 o'clock on the dial.  From 7-5:59 o'clock there is no hum.  I should probably send it into Decware but the amp sounds fantastic.  What would you guys do?


 
  
 I feel like the hum from the left channel affects the transparency compared to the right one even if by a very subtle margin (or maybe I am crazy...) . Imagine that the membrane has to move continuously to reproduce the hum. That may affect the reproduction of the other sounds. For me it's kind of complicated, considered I would have to pay ~700$ for the shipping to USA and backwards. There would also be the risk of them sending it back with the same problem as I have read here. In January I will try putting >150 ohms resistors on the headphone outputs as Steve suggested (he suggested 300) . I have a service guy which already tried getting it to 170 gradually from 150, but with no results. (not sure why he didn't try a big one from start to see if it works first )


----------



## WNBC

Would these resistors be easily swappable?  I wonder what the effect on sound will be with your low impedance LCD-X and high impedance HD800.  Keep us informed.   
  
  
  
 Quote:


dan.gheorghe said:


> I feel like the hum from the left channel affects the transparency compared to the right one even if by a very subtle margin (or maybe I am crazy...) . Imagine that the membrane has to move continuously to reproduce the hum. That may affect the reproduction of the other sounds. For me it's kind of complicated, considered I would have to pay ~700$ for the shipping to USA and backwards. There would also be the risk of them sending it back with the same problem as I have read here. In January I will try putting >150 ohms resistors on the headphone outputs as Steve suggested (he suggested 300) . I have a service guy which already tried getting it to 170 gradually from 150, but with no results. (not sure why he didn't try a big one from start to see if it works first )


----------



## dan.gheorghe

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 If you know what you are doing, I think it could be easy. From what Steve said, a 300 ohm impedance on the output instead of 150 would reduce the power with ~10%. That would mean that you will have to get the volume knob on higher grounds. Will tell you the results in January. I sure hope it fixes the hum.
  
 I think both lucid modes rise the gain and with lucid mode 1 the hum becomes stronger and even stronger with lucid mode 2.
  
 So, I think reducing the gain will make the hum inaudible.


----------



## mmlogic

dan.gheorghe said:


> I feel like the hum from the left channel affects the transparency compared to the right one even if by a very subtle margin (or maybe I am crazy...) . Imagine that the membrane has to move continuously to reproduce the hum. That may affect the reproduction of the other sounds. For me it's kind of complicated, considered I would have to pay ~700$ for the shipping to USA and backwards. There would also be the risk of them sending it back with the same problem as I have read here. In January I will try putting >150 ohms resistors on the headphone outputs as Steve suggested (he suggested 300) . I have a service guy which already tried getting it to 170 gradually from 150, but with no results. (not sure why he didn't try a big one from start to see if it works first )


 
 No, you're not crazy, even the slightest hum can veil the sound, that's why I feel my Taboo 3 lack transparency though it has top image and separation, and I'm suffering from the same situation you're in, can't risk to send it back from the other side of the earth and got it back with the same problem.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

mmlogic said:


> No, you're not crazy, even the slightest hum can veil the sound, that's why I feel my Taboo 3 lack transparency though it has top image and separation, and I'm suffering from the same situation you're in, can't risk to send it back from the other side of the earth and got it back with the same problem.


 
 Damn man...this is exactly my situation... so I feel you...I so feel you.... ) I am not alone any more )
  
 I am going to wait to see if there is a solution to this problem, but If there isn't this will go as a *huge *con/minus in my review on taboo. It really annoys me, as I feel that it is capable of excellent transparency...


----------



## Kendoji

Haha yep same here. I still hope Steve comes up with a solution for these issues. But for now, while I still lllike the Taboo with headphones I'm increasingly starting to think of it as a speaker amplifier primarily.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ this is certainly troubling. I live in New Zealand but was fortunate to receive two problem-free Decware amps. One of them, curiously, was previously owned by a head-fier in Switzerland _who had hum and noise problems he couldn't eradicate_. It (a CSP2) was checked out by Decware and _I believe_ found problem-free before its journey to me. It is, I admit, picky about tubes but otherwise superb.

I used to be in software-development and there's nothing worse than trying to debug a system if one can't recreate the conditions the client is experiencing. I wonder if that's the problem here? Maybe some of these amps - especially because of their purist, simple design - are somewhat sensitive and...well...the controlled conditions of a test-bench won't necessarily identify the problems and hence lead the designer to their fixes.

Another thought is I have a (highly uninformed!) suspicion these amps are sometimes sensitive to EMI. Someone in another thread commented recently (don't remember where, but I don't follow many threads - maybe the LCD3 or LCDX or Gary's mega DAC-shootout thread) about how some (or a particular?) dac generated EMI easily picked up by some amps. There was some talk about this earlier in this thread too I think...

I know some of the Schiit gear was vulnerable to mains-carried interference from light dimmers...

Steve monitors this thread from time to time, and will certainly have some much more informed comment to make if he sees this! Btw Dan, have you been in touch with Decware about this?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

argo duck said:


> ^ this is certainly troubling. I live in New Zealand but was fortunate to receive two problem-free Decware amps. One of them, curiously, was previously owned by a head-fier in Switzerland _who had hum and noise problems he couldn't eradicate_. It (a CSP2) was checked out by Decware and _I believe_ found problem-free before its journey to me. It is, I admit, picky about tubes but otherwise superb.
> 
> I used to be in software-development and there's nothing worse than trying to debug a system if one can't recreate the conditions the client is experiencing. I wonder if that's the problem here? Maybe some of these amps - especially because of their purist, simple design - are somewhat sensitive and...well...the controlled conditions of a test-bench won't necessarily identify the problems and hence lead the designer to their fixes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 From what I see here, Decware didn't test their amps with more headphones before releasing them into the market.
  
 I have been in contact with Steve. One of his guess would be


> " My guess is a ground issue on one channel caused from excessive vibration during shipping"


 
  
 If that is the case (but I don't think so as everything looked ok inside), that would suck...as on the way back from repairs...the same thing could happen again...
  
 He also suggested changing the resistors on the outputs:
  
 Quote:


> Presently there are 150 ohm 6.5 watt resistors that can be increased to 300 ohm.   It's just enough to quiet things down a bit but shouldn't be an issue with the HD800.  You'll just have to have the volume control a click or two higher.


 
  
 The service guy from jack-fi.ro only tried to increase the resistors gradually from 150 to 170 with no luck and then Christmas came and he had no time left... I am curious why he didn't try at first a bigger resistor to see at least if it works... and then go gradually to see what is the smallest added resistance that makes the hum go away. So I am going to wait until January for him to test again...


----------



## Kendoji

Steve suggested my hum issues were tube related, even though I had already excluded that possibility. Then I got a power regenerator, which didn't help. I'm a couple months I'm moving to a different apartment - am curious if that will somehow make a difference. Though again at this stage I'm basically happy with the amp, especially through speakers.


----------



## V-Duh

Dan,
 I'm afraid I have virtually the same problem.  I received my amp last April but did not notice a problem until this fall because I was only using my Senn HD600 and AKG 702.  I tried my Grados in mid-November as someone mentioned decent synergy and I was immediately faced with a significant hum and a weird fluctuating static/wooshing sound primarily in the left channel.  I assumed EMI and planned to track it down when I had time.  Meanwhile I received my LCD-X, plugged it in and "AACK! This kinda sucks."  Eventually I had time to try a bunch of things and all my cans resulting in the development of the table below.  It appears to be very similar to your experience.  I sent this information to Steve and his initial impression is there may be a grounding problem resulting from shipping.  I will be sending my amp to him for diagnosis once I can get out from under all the holiday responsibilities.  I will report on any findings.
  
  
  

         Transformer Hum and Static Noise from Taboo MKIII    Headphone​Impedence​Sensitivity​Transformer Hum [?]​ ​ ​ohms​dB/mW​TRS​XLR​Static/Wooshing​ ​ ​Audeze LCD-X22​96​Significant​Significant​Significant​ ​ ​Grado SR225i32​98​Significant​n/a​Significant​ ​ ​Shure SE53036​119​Loud​n/a​Loud​ ​ ​Alpha Dog50​98​Some​n/a​Not apparent​ ​ ​AKG K70262​105​Just barely​n/a​Not apparent​ ​ ​Darth Beyer80​96​Some​n/a​Not apparent​ ​ ​Senn HD600300​112​Just barely​n/a​Not apparent​ ​ Notes:       1Amp was plugged in to circuit separate from all other audio equipment.  2No inputs were connected to amp.     3There was no discernable difference in noise levels with complete tube set change.  4The noise was biased toward the left channel (60/40?, 70/30?), even with output tube swap. 5There was no apparent increase in noise when switching "Original Lucid Mode" on/off.  6There was a significant increase in noise when engaging "New Lucid Mode."  7The noise level did not change with respect to volume setting.   8The noise level did not change when swapping output jacks or changing output jack selection. 9The static/wooshing noise fluctuated inconsistently.              Noise level scale      Just barely:  Likely not noticeable if not listening for it    Some:  Noticeable with no music playing or during soft passages   Significant:  Evident during music     Loud:  Intolerable


----------



## Argo Duck

Ok, if we're talking about the Taboo mk III, Steve's thread about the how and why he decided to design a new Taboo (see here) makes its target headphones crystal clear. In his own words: "the new TABOO amp...was re-designed to be the best sounding amplifier for the LCD-2's and similar headphones.". I'm not sure what you mean by "Decware didn't test their amps with more headphones" but I think _as a reviewer_ you need to be aware of the Taboo's intended application _and_ you will find that thread interesting background information too. (You can find the information about what phones the Taboo III was designed for in the Decware marketing as well).

For other headphones, the CSP2 (now 3) has always been recommended.

I was very surprised when Frank Iaccone and later Eric (longbowbbs) used the Taboo III (very successfully I would add) with the Senn HD800! Yet, such phones were not its intended application. IMHO it is simply not fair to rate a piece of equipment on applications outside its design envelope.

However, it would seem Steve hasn't said to you 'you should not use this amp with the HD800'. That in itself would seem to indicate _de facto_ acceptance on Steve's part of how the market is using his product. Nevertheless, should we be surprised if problems arise with phones other than those for which the amp was designed?

Which I guess begs the obvious question: *Dan*, have you encountered these problems with your LCD3/LCDX? (Apologies if you've already addressed this - my following of head-fi is highly fragmented these days!)


----------



## Argo Duck

V-Duh, great table!


----------



## WNBC

I think you make a very fair point about headphones that are very efficient.  However, people are noticing problems are using planar type headphones that were designed for the Taboo.  The hum in my Taboo is not as bad as others but I would not use new lucid mode because of it.  With old lucid mode not so bad.
  
 This is straight from Decware website:
*"ULTRA LOW NOISE - Less than 1 mv of noise and hum (usually 0.4mv). The benefit is ultra black backgrounds and inaudible hum on even the most efficient ear speakers."*
    
  
  
 Quote:


argo duck said:


> I was very surprised when Frank Iaccone and later Eric (longbowbbs) used the Taboo III (very successfully I would add) with the Senn HD800! Yet, such phones were not its intended application. IMHO it is simply not fair to rate a piece of equipment on applications outside its design envelope.
> 
> However, it would seem Steve hasn't said to you 'you should not use this amp with the HD800'. That in itself would seem to indicate _de facto_ acceptance on Steve's part of how the market is using his product. Nevertheless, should we be surprised if problems arise with phones other than those for which the amp was designed?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

argo duck said:


> Ok, if we're talking about the Taboo mk III, Steve's thread about the how and why he decided to design a new Taboo (see here) makes its target headphones crystal clear. In his own words: "the new TABOO amp...was re-designed to be the best sounding amplifier for the LCD-2's and similar headphones.". I'm not sure what you mean by "Decware didn't test their amps with more headphones" but I think _as a reviewer_ you need to be aware of the Taboo's intended application _and_ you will find that thread interesting background information too. (You can find the information about what phones the Taboo III was designed for in the Decware marketing as well).
> 
> For other headphones, the CSP2 (now 3) has always been recommended.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have encountered the problem with LCD-X, which doesn't need as much power as lcd2 or lcd3. However it is still an audeze headphone ... and still planar and makes use of power quite nice. As I have stated before...the hum is only in one channel. That shows that something is not symmetrical somewhere in the circuit showing a design flaw maybe...(as I am not the only one having it, it seems)
  
 Making an amp just for 2 headphones....not a good idea... Audeze released a new headphone..ok...must get another amp...(i don't think so). And as a reviewer...well... I must see this as a con...
  
 And I am not speaking here about IEMS or portable headphones...as indeed I haven't bought taboo for that...

 Originally Posted by *V-Duh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  


> Dan,
> I'm afraid I have virtually the same problem.  I received my amp last April but did not notice a problem until this fall because I was only using my Senn HD600 and AKG 702.  I tried my Grados in mid-November as someone mentioned decent synergy and I was immediately faced with a significant hum and a weird fluctuating static/wooshing sound primarily in the left channel.  I assumed EMI and planned to track it down when I had time.  Meanwhile I received my LCD-X, plugged it in and "AACK! This kinda sucks."  Eventually I had time to try a bunch of things and all my cans resulting in the development of the table below.  It appears to be very similar to your experience.  I sent this information to Steve and his initial impression is there may be a grounding problem resulting from shipping.  I will be sending my amp to him for diagnosis once I can get out from under all the holiday responsibilities.  I will report on any findings.


 
 Thanks V-Duh. Waiting for your results!!
  
 Ah and PS... I don't want the hum to disappear on lucid modes...as I don't use them. I just want to make it disappear on the default mode.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> I was very surprised when Frank Iaccone and later Eric (longbowbbs) used the Taboo III (very successfully I would add) with the Senn HD800! Yet, such phones were not its intended application. IMHO it is simply not fair to rate a piece of equipment on applications outside its design envelope.


 
 I would not have purchased the Taboo Mk III if I had not heard it first with the HD800's. Since Steve specifically spoke of the LCD-2's as his HP Standard, I was curious about the HD800's. I already had the CSP2+ and it was a great match. Steve's expectation was that the combination would have more body and heft (it did) so I ordered the amp after I listened to it. I think I was the first person to have heard the Taboo MK III other than Steve and the first to hear it with the HD800's.
  
 I would have it today if the opportunity to acquire the SLI-80 had not come along. The Cary is a long time aspirational piece for me. The Taboo is a great amp both for speakers and HP's. Fortunately, I never experienced the hum people have been experiencing.


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## Argo Duck

*Dan*, fair points, except I think by "LCD2's and similar" Steve meant orthos in general (but not the HE6), not the LCD2 in particular. I guess the point about Decware _power_ amps is they were designed to be speaker amps. Then *Skylab* (with the *Mini-Torii*) and *Frank I* (the *Taboo*) asked for speaker jacks and suddenly they were hp amps too. I suppose one might now debate the wisdom of this move without having specifically tested and designed for headphones.

OTOH, the long-time pre-amp and hp-amp the CSP2 and 3 seem to have been more generally successful and robust.

*WNBC*, absolutely fair point. What you quoted is impossible to dispute!

*Eric*, thanks for that piece of history. I frankly couldn't remember whether it was you or Frank who tried the HD800 first. Clearly it was you, and equally clearly Steve was happy to see the Mk III used this way.

Well, we've been here before., e.g. questions over QA (sigh). Decware is a small company with a hugely talented, creative designer. Unfortunately, it's not a company with resource to test product reliability over widely varying conditions. I'm not blaming those of you who may have these hypothetical problem conditions, merely speculating about why there may be a design flaw which the company's normal development, testing and QA hasn't revealed. Unfortunately, such things happen. Even in well-resourced companies.

It's easy for those like me who are problem-free to stand on the sidelines, scratch our heads and say "but these products are great!". I feel for you guys


----------



## Kendoji

FWIW mine hums with my orthos too.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> *Dan*, fair points, except I think by "LCD2's and similar" Steve meant orthos in general (but not the HE6), not the LCD2 in particular. I guess the point about Decware _power_ amps is they were designed to be speaker amps. Then *Skylab* (with the *Mini-Torii*) and *Frank I* (the *Taboo*) asked for speaker jacks and suddenly they were hp amps too. I suppose one might now debate the wisdom of this move without having specifically tested and designed for headphones.
> 
> OTOH, the long-time pre-amp and hp-amp the CSP2 and 3 seem to have been more generally successful and robust.
> 
> ...


 
 Frank received the first shipped unit of the Taboo MK III. I listened to the prototype that Steve used to voice the amp. (Mine was Ser # 10) When Steve listened to the amp with my HD800's it was the first time he had put a pair of HD800's on in his life.

  
 Remember he is also a speaker designer. Head-Fi is a newer focus for him. Frank and Rob (Skylab) really got him into the game with the Taboo (Frank) and the Mini-Torii (Rob) Each asked him to put a HP jack on their respective amps.
  
 I will likely buy another amp from him. I had terrific service and I loved the amps.


----------



## ZenTriode

I did in fact design the Taboo MK III for the LCD2 and LCD3 headphones.  These hard to drive planar headphones deserved a purpose built amplifier because of both their fidelity and popularity.  
  
 We already make a great OTL headphone amplifier/preamp that is ideal for use with regular headphones. (CSP3) And there was no LCDX at that time.
  
 In my writing about the Taboo MK III and new lucid mode, I made it pretty clear that the effect is tied to impedance.  The LCD's were in the 50-70 ohm range where new lucid mode was carefully voiced.  On speakers or other headphones the new lucid mode would be exaggerated or reduced from that ideal.
  
 That said, many people use the Taboo MK III on a variety of different headphones and I’m fine with that so long as the above is understood regarding the new lucid mode.
  
 I will be adding a custom option to the shopping cart for the Taboo MK III that will allow the buyer to select from standard gain and low gain.  Low gain being for more efficient non-targeted headphones.  If 4 pin jacks are selected we could make one high output and one low output as well.
  
 This could technically be done externally if the right resistors were used.
 Mouser # 71-CW005150R0JE73 which is a 150 ohm exactly matches what’s on the inside.  You could go as high a 1K with some phones or IEMs.
  
 As for hum on one channel only:
  
 Since the internal layout is not perfectly symmetrical, the noise floor is going to be louder on one side over the other.  This is true of most audio gear, once you magnify the noise floor.  Even if both sides were exactly the same layout, differences in tubes would be heard, so the real issue is hearing the noise floor at all.  With 1700 Miliwatts of output, anyone hearing hum has more than enough volume left on the dial to hurt themselves.  That means that for headphones that you hear hum with, there is too much gain or power.  Reducing it will give you more usable range on the volume control and reduce the hum by an equal amount.
  
  
  
 Hope this helps!
  
 Steve Deckert


----------



## dan.gheorghe

zentriode said:


> I did in fact design the Taboo MK III for the LCD2 and LCD3 headphones.  These hard to drive planar headphones deserved a purpose built amplifier because of both their fidelity and popularity.
> 
> We already make a great OTL headphone amplifier/preamp that is ideal for use with regular headphones. (CSP3) And there was no LCDX at that time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Steve,
  
 Thank you for the answer. Considering I am having 4 pin outputs, could I make one with the default gain that it now has and the other with lower gain? Does this mean just adding a > 150 ohm resistor?
  
 If the answer is positive, could it easily be applied just on one(4pin xlr or single ended) output? (What would be the resistor you would chose for this?) Will this influence the output impedance?
  
 Thank you,
  
 Dan


----------



## thegrobe

Since this is coming up again, I'll reiterate my experience. Maybe since Steve is following and has responded, perhaps he can comment on my experience/findings. Hopefully this can help find a solution? 
  
 ----------------------------------
  
 This first part is old news, same experience many are having. Just a recap. 
  
 - Taboo mk3, a low level background hum (both channels). Seems to be 60 Hz. Audible with LCD-3 when music is stopped, or quiet passages. I had mentioned before on this thread that it was inaudible with the HD800. I was mistaken. There was some background noise in the house, etc while I was checking it out. A later, quiet listening session I hear it, and it is similar as the LCD's, just maybe a bit less noticeable.
  
 - I'm also concerned on how this affects the accuracy/transparency of the chain, if the whole time the headphone is recreating this humming in the background. 
  
 - The hum is the SAME volume regardless of volume knob position. Regardless of the Taboo being used alone or with pre. The same with nothing at all connected to it. The same with the input tube removed.
  
 - Gets louder and intrusive with either headphone with new lucid engaged. Therefore I don't use it much. I can live without it. I wish it was silent in standard mode though. 
  
 - Level of hum is the same off speaker taps or 4 pin XLR out.
  
 - My Taboo was returned to Decware to check out the hum, they didn't hear anything, everything checked out. They sent it back. Steve was very helpful though, called personally to discuss it. It was still an expense. Not as much as $$ the users in other parts of the world. But still not cheap. 
  
 - I tried a DC blocking power conditioner. Didn't help. I was thinking maybe my power was dirty, and Decware's is clean, hence me hearing it and they don't. I have had no problems with any other gear, amps, anything. All quiet. Tubes, interconnects etc everything has been changed/checked. 
  
 - My CSP3 pre is FANTASTIC. I have no noise, hum, anything with it. Super quiet. If you crank up the volume to 100% with no music playing, there is a VERY faint hiss detectable. But if you listened at those volumes your ears would melt and this whole hum problem would be the least of your worries. Nothing to complain about. 
  
 - I realize the Taboo is a speaker amp at heart, and designed for the LCD, not designed for IEM/CIEM use. Let me say this though...My CIEM's sound FANTASTIC out of this amp, apart from the background hum, which is very intrusive. Other high powered desktop amps I've tried are silent in the background with IEM's. It would be nice to find a solution to this, so that all headphones can be used noise-free with this amp. 
  
 ------------------------------------
  
 Here's where it gets interesting:
  
 - The CSP3 is powered on, sitting near the Taboo. The Taboo has no power cord connected, no interconnects. No tubes installed even. Nothing. Just sitting there. IT HUMS. I can connect headphones to the Taboo and hear that damn humming. This is the same noise I hear constantly in the background from the Taboo. If I move the Taboo away from the CSP, it fades and goes away. BTW, the CSP powered off and the Taboo on, I get the noise. Of course. 
  
 Here's my theory: The transformer is making a low level hum, oscillation, whatever you want to call it. (I'm no engineer or amp designer, please don't laugh at me Steve) The output transformers on the Taboo pick that up somehow, transduce it and send it on out the headphone cable. It stands to reason that if the Taboo picks up the noise "over the air" from the CSP being next to it, it would surely also pick up the same noise from it's own transformer. (??)
  
 Would removing the transformer from the Taboo and having it in a separate base, say a foot and a half away, maybe cure this? Far enough that the transformer isn't causing whatever it's broadcasting on the internals of the Taboo. Maybe? Sounds crazy but I'm this close to gutting my Taboo, removing the transformer to a separate enclosure a bit farther away to try it. Warranty be damned. I'm pretty handy so I know it will survive. Might look crazy though. But might just add to it's charm.


----------



## Pentode Guy

[quote 
[/quote]
Dan, if your unit is less than 30 days old, Steve will pay shipping both ways.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

pentode guy said:


> [quote


 Dan, if your unit is less than 30 days old, Steve will pay shipping both ways.[/quote]

 I am not that lucky ) . It would cost me over 450 EUR, I think.


----------



## WNBC

Out of curiosity which tubes are you HD800 users with your CSP/Taboo combo?


----------



## longbowbbs

I had Mullard EL84's with a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 and a USAF-596 for the Taboo. The CSP2+ had the stock 6N1P and a pair of Genalex Gold Lion's with another USAF-596. Loved it.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for insight.  USAF-596, one of these days......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
  
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> I had Mullard EL84's with a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 and a USAF-596 for the Taboo. The CSP2+ had the stock 6N1P and a pair of Genalex Gold Lion's with another USAF-596. Loved it.


----------



## WNBC

It's Friday, lets have some fun.  Friday Night Lights.


----------



## longbowbbs

wnbc said:


> Thanks for insight.  USAF-596, one of these days......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am amazed how that tube has just gone into orbit in cost. I got my first one for $20. Now they are $200 if you can find one.


----------



## thegrobe

wnbc said:


> It's Friday, lets have some fun.  Friday Night Lights.


 
  
 Nice...Maybe it's just the picture? But my Taboo seems to "glow" a lot brighter than the CSP3. Is that the case with everyone who has this combo? Your looks equally bright for both. 
  
 And.. Your question about tubes w/ HD800. CSP3 Philips 5RRGYS, Genelex 6922 in the front and a pair of Cryoset 6N1P. Taboo has RCA 5Y3GT, 6N1P in the front and a pair of Amperex Holland EL84. Pretty good, though I haven't tried a whole lot of rolling though yet with the HD800. Different choices than LCD-3


----------



## OPR8R

This thread has been lively lately.  To chime in, my Taboo 3 hums when I crank it up all the way.  I don't know if it's tubes, crappy wiring in my 80 year old building, or something with the Taboo, but I'm not really bothered because I keep it around 15 clicks, or so, and use the CSP3 for volume control.  It's just so tough to troubleshoot given my current situation.
  
 But to be honest, I've only heard one other headphone amp that completely blew me away compared to the Taboo 3, and that was the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and you can buy 3 Taboo 3's for the cost of that beautiful beast.  Others I've heard are very good but also start getting expensive if you want comparable performance.  Given all that, I decided long ago to keep my Taboo 3 and just enjoy it.  All-in-all, my experience has been as expected or better given the early reviews (early reviewers reported the hum) and other info. I considered. 
  
 Also, I'm jealous that none of my tubes looks blue when I photograph it like that


----------



## WNBC

I had the Taboo MKII and the brightness is about the same for me but also a lot of the same tubes 
  
 I don't know much about tubes but I think brightness is more tube-dependent.  I've had some 6922s that are bright and some not so bright.  I had a EML 5U4G that was much brighter than my current 5U4s.  I'm a novice tube roller.
  
 Thanks for the tube suggestions.  The HD800 is a little hot so looking for right tubes to do a little taming.  Will also try cables and various headphone mods.  Other than that I can tell the HD800 does pair well with the CSP/Taboo combo.
  
  
 Quote:


thegrobe said:


> Nice...Maybe it's just the picture? But my Taboo seems to "glow" a lot brighter than the CSP3. Is that the case with everyone who has this combo? Your looks equally bright for both.
> 
> And.. Your question about tubes w/ HD800. CSP3 Philips 5RRGYS, Genelex 6922 in the front and a pair of Cryoset 6N1P. Taboo has RCA 5Y3GT, 6N1P in the front and a pair of Amperex Holland EL84. Pretty good, though I haven't tried a whole lot of rolling though yet with the HD800. Different choices than LCD-3


----------



## WNBC

I have only heard a couple lower end tube amps and the Decware by far is the best sounding one.  When I get the itch I sometimes start thinking about new amps but all I have to do is play some music through the Decware amps and it brings me back to reality.  
  
 As for 3 Decware amps vs Cavalli Liquid Gold, I see that you do have a 3 Decware amps....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Quote:


opr8r said:


> This thread has been lively lately.  To chime in, my Taboo 3 hums when I crank it up all the way.  I don't know if it's tubes, crappy wiring in my 80 year old building, or something with the Taboo, but I'm not really bothered because I keep it around 15 clicks, or so, and use the CSP3 for volume control.  It's just so tough to troubleshoot given my current situation.
> 
> But to be honest, I've only heard one other headphone amp that completely blew me away compared to the Taboo 3, and that was the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and you can buy 3 Taboo 3's for the cost of that beautiful beast.  Others I've heard are very good but also start getting expensive if you want comparable performance.  Given all that, I decided long ago to keep my Taboo 3 and just enjoy it.  All-in-all, my experience has been as expected or better given the early reviews (early reviewers reported the hum) and other info. I considered.
> 
> Also, I'm jealous that none of my tubes looks blue when I photograph it like that


----------



## OPR8R

wnbc said:


> I have only heard a couple lower end tube amps and the Decware by far is the best sounding one.  When I get the itch I sometimes start thinking about new amps but all I have to do is play some music through the Decware amps and it brings me back to reality.
> 
> As for 3 Decware amps vs Cavalli Liquid Gold, I see that you do have a 3 Decware amps....


 
  
 Wellll, I wouldn't count the phono pre, but touche 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To my ears the Taboo + CSP3 gives most setups I've heard a run for their money.  I have to admit though, I am curious about how the CSP3 would sound with something like the GSX 2, which I found to be very good (but pricey).  That would still be lots less than the Liquid Au.


----------



## bearFNF

Only hum I ever heard (beside when I tried IEMS on it for kicks) from the Taboo MKIII was when I had it over at my sisters house, I attribute it to the wiring in her place, as I have not heard it since.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

> This could technically be done externally if the right resistors were used.
> Mouser # 71-CW005150R0JE73 which is a 150 ohm exactly matches what’s on the inside.  You could go as high a 1K with some phones or IEMs.


 
  
 Steve said the above. Do you have any idea what he meant with "externally" ?


----------



## longbowbbs

dan.gheorghe said:


> > This could technically be done externally if the right resistors were used.
> > Mouser # 71-CW005150R0JE73 which is a 150 ohm exactly matches what’s on the inside.  You could go as high a 1K with some phones or IEMs.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He meant if you did it yourself or it was done locally rather that at Decware....


----------



## parbaked

If I was outside of EU I would ask Steve to mail me the correct resistors with instructions to have a local technician fix. 
  
 My builder sent me this simple picture with instructions and some resistors to adjust my headphone output to better suit low impedance cans.
 Maybe Steve can do something similar for his overseas owners.

  
  
 This is my little amp: Abraxas Spud by Jef Larson...

  
 Good Luck!


----------



## dan.gheorghe

This is what I am trying to do now. 
  
 Steve said something :
  


zentriode said:


> .....
> 
> This could technically be done externally if the right resistors were used.
> Mouser # 71-CW005150R0JE73 which is a 150 ohm exactly matches what’s on the inside.  You could go as high a 1K with some phones or IEMs.
> ...


 
 Maybe adding another one of these in series would be ok?
  
 Anyway...humm and all...it is still an excellent amplifier. I stress so much about it because it is so good. After I get this off my head...I will be extremely happy! I just love it. The transparency with it is just amazing!


----------



## parbaked

dan.gheorghe said:


> This is what I am trying to do now.
> 
> Steve said something :
> 
> Maybe adding another one of these in series would be ok?


 
 In my case I could tack another resistor across the existing resistors to change the load but you need to know the equations. 
 This way you can return the amp to original spec by snipping out the additional resistors you added.
 You need to get exact instructions and specifications from Steve for your amp.
  
 These are the instructions I received to go with image Jef sent of my amp:
  
_In the second pic showing 2 x 330 ohm._
_these are the "lift" resistors, which help reduce noise._
_These can also be changed, but probably not shorted out._
_I suggest leaving existing ones in place and tack solder either another 330 or_
_a 270 or even a 220 ohm unit across each._
_330 will yield 165 ohms._
_270 = 148 ohms_
_220 = 132 ohms (considered about "normal")_
_1/2 watt resistors are enough. Don't use carbon film here._
_I can send you some resistors if you need to take this step._
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
 Again, good luck.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

parbaked said:


> In my case I could tack another resistor across the existing resistors to change the load but you need to know the equations.
> This way you can return the amp to original spec by snipping out the additional resistors you added.
> You need to get exact instructions and specifications from Steve for your amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It would be just awesome if Steve would give some accurate instructions on the matter. For example specifying what resistors to chose, how and where to put them, maybe in a way to keep the right side(with the single output and 4pin xlr balanced output) with lower gain and the left one with the default gain.


----------



## parbaked

dan.gheorghe said:


> It would be just awesome if Steve would give some accurate instructions on the matter. For example specifying what resistors to chose, how and where to put them,


 
 Yes, this is what I received from the gentleman who built my amp - and I am not even the original owner!
 I think it is reasonable given Decware's lifetime warranty and the obvious risks and costs to ship from overseas...
 I suspect Steve does not want to prescribe fixes without investigating the actual unit.
 Perhaps you need someone in the US, who has the same issue, to get their amp fixed and inform you the remedy.
 Again, Good Luck. I know I would be frustrated in our shoes...


----------



## ZenTriode

Hi guys,
  
 What I meant by "externally" was to place the resistor in a headphone extension cable.  This could be done separate from the Taboo MK III. 
  
 By purchasing an XLR jack that is male, and a second XLR jack that is female it would be possible to wire a resistor between the two jacks and experiment with different values.  Once you find the value you want, you can order that value from mouser using the part number I supplied for best sound quality. 
  
 As for internally modifying your units, I don't have a problem working with small repair shops via email to guide them in what to do, but I am reluctant to post what to do on this public forum.  There are dangerous voltages inside not to mention working on it yourself could void the warranty.
  
 It should also be noted that this is not a fix, it is a mod.  You can't fix what's not broken, and for those hearing hum on non LCD2 headphones, this mod would likely help a great deal.
   
 

 Thanks,
  
 Steve


----------



## ZenTriode

I should also mention that if you create an extension cable for the XLR jacks that employes a 150 ~ 1000 ohm resistor, the output of the single ended headphone jacks will remain unaffected.   On the same note, creating an extension cable for the single ended headphone jack would have no effect on the XLR outputs.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Steve


----------



## jeust0999

I just placed an order for a taboo. Really looking forward to my first tube amp!


----------



## longbowbbs

jeust0999 said:


> I just placed an order for a taboo. Really looking forward to my first tube amp!


 





  
 You will love it!


----------



## Pentode Guy

Dan,
There's a recent case over at Decware forum where a unit was having hum on one channel. It turned out he had "incorrect layout" as per warranty repair invoice.


----------



## Lord Soth

pentode guy said:


> Dan,
> There's a recent case over at Decware forum where a unit was having hum on one channel. It turned out he had "incorrect layout" as per warranty repair invoice.


 
  
 For all cases of hum, it is best to contact Steve Deckert (Decware) directly.
  
 The situation might not be identical.
  
 The unit in question was a CSP3 rather than a Taboo.
  
 The affected owner contacted me privately for advice on his hum issue.
 He then updated me on the repair details.
 It turned out that his CSP3 could not accept any tubes on the right output other than the default 6N1P stock tubes.
 After changing the layout under repair, his unit can now accept other tubes (e.g. E288CC) without any hum.


----------



## WNBC

Wow!  I was racking my brain trying to figure out why only the stock tubes resulted in no hum in the CSP3!  I bought 3 new Gold Lion 6922s because I thought maybe my old tubes were just too noisy for the transparency of the CSP3.  All 3 hummed loudly and I was thinking what was the chance that all 3 were bad.  I am going to double check tonight one last time that I can't use anything but the stock tubes, but I'm pretty sure.  
  
 Lord Soth, you are the man!
  
  
 Quote:


lord soth said:


> For all cases of hum, it is best to contact Steve Deckert (Decware) directly.
> 
> The situation might not be identical.
> 
> ...


----------



## funch

That's interesting. My CSP2+ also had humming/buzzing in the right channel. It actually killed a 6DJ8 tube in about 30 minutes. I've since given
 up on using 6922 variants in the output and am now using a pair of triple-mica 6N1P's which sound great.
  
 I'm curious what the 'incorrect layout' actually is.


----------



## Argo Duck

Same here with my (previously CanDude's) CSP2+ :eek: It has to have 6N1P tubes in the output positions. May only be one channel, but didn't really take note.

As I was completely able to tailor the sound with the driver and rectifier tubes - and it runs silent with these and 6N1P output tubes - I got on with listening and forgot about the problem. Hmm...


----------



## Lord Soth

Dear WNBC, funch and AiDee

On my CSP2+ and CSP3, I confirm that I can use all manner of tubes in the 6DJ8 family without any hum.
I have tube rolled without any mishaps, even with rectifiers.

The logical conclusion I can draw from this is that maybe there is one particular amp builder in Decware who's been making this layout mistake. 
Otherwise everyone's amp would have the same problem.


----------



## WNBC

AiDee, same here.  The 6N1P sound great in the CSP3 and I thought I might tackle the problem with other tube variants later on.  Everything makes sense now.  When I first tried the CSP with my non-stock tubes I heard a hum issue but figured my 6DJ8 and 6922 tubes were fine for say my old Lyr but not up to snuff for the CSP.  I put in the stock tubes and no problem.  Two weeks ago I bought some Gold Lion 6922s and had the hum issue.  
  
 Lord Soth,   
 Agreed, most people can tube roll without an issue.  I have an early production CSP3.  
  
  
 Thanks guys, now I'm relieved.  My CSP3 problems are fixable!  And I could always stick with the 6N1P tubes but I was born to roll.
  
  
 Quote:


argo duck said:


> Same here with my (previously CanDude's) CSP2+
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


lord soth said:


> Dear WNBC, funch and AiDee
> 
> On my CSP2+ and CSP3, I confirm that I can use all manner of tubes in the 6DJ8 family without any hum.
> I have tube rolled without any mishaps, even with rectifiers.
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks LS & WNBC 

CanDude's CSP2 got checked out and re-certified on its way to me some 17 months ago. I imagine the layout issue hadn't been identified at that time.

I'm probably happy with my unit (the Taboo is my main amp) but if I ever on-sell I will draw Decware's attention to the possibility this happened with my unit, for them to fix if necessary during re-certification.


----------



## clowkoy

There is another reason why 6N1P's are quiet in the CSP. As you know, the filaments in the CSP are DC-heated through a simple CRC. Without load, the DC voltage reaches >7 volts. The 6N1P tubes draw around 650-700ma each, that's twice the current draw of 6922/6DJ8/6N23P. With 3-6N1P tubes in the CSP, the voltage would drop to 4.30 volts, that's running tubes at 70% of the required 6.3 volts. This was confirmed by another CSP owner over at Decware forum. I guess this is what Steve called "starved filament technology", probably a patented technology since I don't know of any other tube amp manufacturer going this low of a filament voltage. Now, if you use the regular 6922/6DJ8 tubes, the voltage would go up to 5.7-6.0 volts since they're only drawing half the amount of current, well within the 10% variation allowed by tube manufacturers.


----------



## thegrobe

Oh Boy! Look what came today after a long search! Three NOS 596's, all from the same week in 1957. Two are a tightly matched pair. Also some adapters from 2359glenn today too!..What timing! 
  
 Fun with tubes


----------



## longbowbbs

thegrobe said:


> Oh Boy! Look what came today after a long search! Three NOS 596's, all from the same week in 1957. Two are a tightly matched pair. Also some adapters from 2359glenn today too!..What timing!
> 
> Fun with tubes


 
 Nice looking bunch of 596's! I do love that tube with Decware!


----------



## hadowight

jazzgas said:


> I am listening to the Album "Easy Living" and discovered something odd.  When I have it on regular stereo with my single ended Audeze LCD 2.2 Cans the soloist, Paul Desmond, sounds like he is in the back hall while Jim Hall is still on stage.  Switching to Old Lucid mode, Desmond returns to the stage.  I wouldn't have thought anything of this but I was listening to a remastered CD of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" yesterday where Canonball Adderly sounded like he was in the hall until I turned on old Lucid mode.  I vaguely remember reading something about the floating Ground that may have something to do with it.  Anyone have any ideas?  Mark


 





 With single ended the Old Lucid Mode must be always on. With balanced I keep both lucid modes off.


----------



## jazzgas

Hadowight, No harm done but your post is a question I had and the answer Neugra gave from August of last year.  Why have you reposted them?  
  
 As an update...shortly after that question and answer, I ordered a Balanced Silver Widow cable for my Audeze headphones from Toxic Cables which arrived the day before Christmas.  Sounds glorious.  Mark.


----------



## longbowbbs

jazzgas said:


> Hadowight, No harm done but your post is a question I had and the answer Neugra gave from August of last year.  Why have you reposted them?
> 
> As an update...shortly after that question and answer, I ordered a Balanced Silver Widow cable for my Audeze headphones from Toxic Cables which arrived the day before Christmas.  Sounds glorious.  Mark.


 
 Guys, When I went to Decware and visited Steve we discussed both Lucid modes. Neither of them is always best. You will find some music is best with OR without one or the other mode. The point is that they are there to try and see what works best for you. Sometimes you will perfer no lucid mode and just go with the straight amp. No absolutes here. Those modes are another adjustment like tube rolling. See what you like and apply as needed.


----------



## funch

I have a Taboo II and have been 'under the hood' to make a few parts upgrades, so I've been able to see exactly what lucid mode really is/does.
 By looking at the partial schematic on Decware's Taboo III page, it seems that Lucid Mode 1 is the same.
  
 The negative speaker outputs are each connected to the headphone jack ground through a 4.7 ohm wirewound resistor. The lucid mode switch
 effectively switches the left channel ground in or out of the circuit. 'Lucid Mode Off' runs only the right channel ground to the 'phone jack.
 'Lucid Mode On' therefore runs the ground from both channels to the 'phone jack. So, 'Lucid Mode On' is simply normal stereo, giving a full width
 stereo image. 'Lucid Mode Off' gives an almost mono signal, since it is only running the negative out from the right channel. Sort of a version
 of crossfeed.
  
 I've completely removed the lucid mode switch from my amp, and run upgraded resistors directly from the negative speaker terminals to the
 headphone jack ground. Even with the change, the sound from the 'phone jack is not nearly as good as running an external adapter to connect
 my 'phones (LCD 2's) directly to the speaker terminals. This is probably why Decware redesigned the Taboo to connect the XLR jacks directly
 to the speaker out's.
  
 So, if you have a Taboo II and are only using the 'phone jack, you are not hearing the full potential of the amp.


----------



## WNBC

Very interesting info though a bit over my head.  I've tried the new MKIII from the speaker taps and I did not find the sound better vs balanced HP outs so maybe you're onto something about the re-design.  This was just a quick test because I wasn't sure whether it was safe to run a balanced headphone to the MKIII's speaker outputs.  I'm assuming it is safe because people use headphones with other power amps but assumptions without know-how is an easy way to blow up headphones.  
  
  
 Quote:


funch said:


> This is probably why Decware redesigned the Taboo to connect the XLR jacks directly to the speaker out's.
> 
> So, if you have a Taboo II and are only using the 'phone jack, you are not hearing the full potential of the amp.


----------



## Francoy

funch said:


> (...) So, if you have a Taboo II and are only using the 'phone jack, you are not hearing the full potential of the amp.


 
  
 Interesting, what would you suggest?
  
 (very interested in you thoughts on a solution, because I tried to connect my phones directly to the speaker binding post, but it was really loud)


----------



## funch

Do you have a Taboo II or III? Do you use a preamp, or connect your source directly to the Taboo?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

I have purchased a bunch of resistors Steve recommended . I was wondering . If I put these in series with the existing ones, wouldn't it increase the output impedance by 150 ohms? I know there is a 1/8 headphone impedance rule.


----------



## Argo Duck

Dan the 1:8 doesn't apply with resistive loads., i.e. Audez'e, Hifiman etc. The 1:8 is to do with maintaining optimal power transfer without compromising FR at different parts of the (often erratic) impedance curve of dynamic phones. But when the load is simple and flat and doesn't have electrical 'backwash' to worry about, the rules are different.

I'm no expert btw. But you can find stuff about this from EEs here and there on head-fi and elsewhere.

Btw this is why you'll often read the amount of current an amp (unintentional pun :rolleyes can deliver is more important for magnar-planar phones.


----------



## Francoy

funch said:


> Do you have a Taboo II or III? Do you use a preamp, or connect your source directly to the Taboo?


 
  
 I use a Mac > DAC > Taboo II (with headphone jack) and control volume with the Taboo’s pot


----------



## dan.gheorghe

argo duck said:


> Dan the 1:8 doesn't apply with resistive loads., i.e. Audez'e, Hifiman etc. The 1:8 is to do with maintaining optimal power transfer without compromising FR at different parts of the (often erratic) impedance curve of dynamic phones. But when the load is simple and flat and doesn't have electrical 'backwash' to worry about, the rules are different.
> 
> I'm no expert btw. But you can find stuff about this from EEs here and there on head-fi and elsewhere.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for the response.
  
 Steve answered me as well.
  


> Dan,
> 
> The 150 ohm resistor doesn't effect the output impedance of the Taboo but rather raises the impedance of the headphones.  The proceedure is to lift one leg of the existing 150ohm resistor and solder the new 150 ohm resistor in series with the old one giving you a total of 300 ohms.  The resistors are located on the XLR jacks.


----------



## funch

francoy said:


> I use a Mac > DAC > Taboo II (with headphone jack) and control volume with the Taboo’s pot


 
  
 You should be able to run straight from the speaker terminals to your 'phones.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Speaking of running straight from speaker terminals of Taboo II (wrong thread I know!), finally got round to soldering up an adapter.

Early listening is promising. Main changes: Lucid off I hear stereo not mono; _lucid on_ there's _I think_ a much better sound stage than phone-jack 'lucid', pronounced with some tracks, subtle with others. Very like what I get with speakers.

I thought there may've been tonal changes too. Not sure - I was very tired when I listened. Whatever, the lucid/stereo change was worth the effort.

Btw *Francoy* - my configuration is similar: Mac > DAC > T II. My driver is a 12AT7 equivalent = moderate gain. No problem running straight from the speaker terminals. My DAC has a preamp function so controlled volume using the DAC to the direct inputs, which (SE) gives about 2.25Vrms at max.

I just set the DAC to the standard 2.0V and changed inputs so the Taboo controls volume. No problems with it getting too loud too fast...


----------



## longbowbbs

Andre, I think it is so interesting the different perceptions around Lucid mode. Generally, I preferred New Lucid on with my HD800's in Single Ended. I found effect really fun as it accentuated the HD800's already huge soundstage. The Taboo MK III is a great amp.


----------



## Argo Duck

It certainly is interesting stuff Eric 

Just now doing that quick set up for Francoy, I briefly compared phone jack with speaker terminals. Phone jack definitely has a more closed in SS - the typical intimate LCD2 presentation. From the terminals, the SS definitely expands the LCD2! It also sounds more lively and tonally different., e.g. more weight and body to Jimmy Page's guitar. I'm wondering if the tonal change is in my case a psychoacoustic effect of hearing instruments separated better in space...?

Actually, the liveliness sounds a little untidy too  I think I need to take time to adjust and decide whether I like it long term


----------



## longbowbbs

The best part is having choices so you can try new things with the music you love/ Always good to have more things to try.


----------



## Argo Duck

Absolutely 

And I'm starting to like the change already


----------



## Francoy

Thanks AiDee, much appreciated!
 (wrong thread indeed! sorry for the slight derail guys;¬)
  
 I personally use a 5751 tube in the input stage (supposed to be low gain-ish) and a couple of 7320s (E84L) in the output stage. I just don’t want to rip appart my q-audio cable to verify if I prefer the sound straight from the speaker taps or not (and I can’t seem to relocate my stock cable from my LCD-2s)...


----------



## WNBC

Been quiet in this thread lately 
  
 CSP3 is back from Steve and now I can roll both 6N-1P and 6922s.  It's drop dead quite now as well.  You guys are right about the Phillips 5R4GYS.  I like it.  
  
 The CSP + Taboo -->  HD-800 is a special combo.  I'm really enjoying it.  The HD-800 is often called dry and technical.  With the Decware amps driving the HD-800 it is engaging while retaining its technical merits.  I like the CSP + Taboo a lot more than Taboo alone with the HD-800.  However, CSP + HD-800 is close to as good as it can get.  
  
 Balanced Q-Audio cable coming this weekend too.  Should be fun to hear the HD-800 in Taboo balanced mode.  Also, getting a loaner T1 from a friend and I will try that with the Decware amps.  
 Listening to Toumani Diabate "New Ancient Strings".  I probably like the planars for guitar because of the midrange body but it's not too shabby on the HD-800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## thegrobe

It has been quiet...

Question, folks, regarding the bias meters. Just today, I received a matched pair of Tungsram EL84 from upscale audio. Popped them into the Taboo and switched it on and let it warm up for about 5 minutes. 

I plugged the phones in, and no sound in the right channel. The right meter was reading crazy high, about 85. So I switched tubes side to side, now left channel dead and high meter reading. 

So my question- obviously one tube is bad, but could leaving it running in the amp several minutes before I noticed have damaged anything? Never seen the meter go that nuts before.


----------



## longbowbbs

thegrobe said:


> It has been quiet...
> 
> Question, folks, regarding the bias meters. Just today, I received a matched pair of Tungsram EL84 from upscale audio. Popped them into the Taboo and switched it on and let it warm up for about 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
 Doubtful if switching had the other side working. Put in another pair and you should be fine.


----------



## thegrobe

longbowbbs said:


> Doubtful if switching had the other side working. Put in another pair and you should be fine.




Thanks! I had a couple hours listening session last night and everything seemed fine. Just paranoid!


----------



## bearFNF

wnbc said:


> Been quiet in this thread lately
> 
> CSP3 is back from Steve and now I can roll both 6N-1P and 6922s.  It's drop dead quite now as well.  You guys are right about the Phillips 5R4GYS.  I like it.
> 
> ...


 
 Q-cable is very nice, I use mine with lucid mode 1 on most of the time...congrats and good listening...


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys. I've posted my review on Taboo MK3.


----------



## Kendoji

Nice review!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I never wrote a detailed review myself, but I agree with most of what you write.  Mine is a hummer as well but I've totally made peace with it.  Never even really think about it any more, even though I still suspect there's unit to unit variance as some seem to have dead silent backgrounds, I have hum on both channels, and you have hum on one.  Oh well.  The only other downside I'd mention is that it's a real pain to get dust off it.  Mine's looking kind of filthy.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I have zero regrets - the Taboo is one of the coolest things I've ever owned.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

kendoji said:


> Nice review!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Kendoji.
  
 I was just thinking about the dust, myself ) 
  
 It is a great amp indeed. The hum is a little annoying, sometimes, especially when advertised as silent.


----------



## Kendoji

Actually does anyone have any good tips on cleaning and keeping the Taboo dust-free?  I do have the rubber things to plug up all the unused headphone inputs, we've talked about those before and they're essential for this amp, I think.  I'm still looking for the perfect dusting tool.


----------



## WNBC

Thank you for the review.  Enjoyed reading it and I like the photography style you chose.  
  
 I definitely agree with you about the transparency and clarity of this amp.    
  
 Plans to try a pair of efficient speakers with Taboo?
  
 Which amp do you prefer with the HD-800, the Conductor or Taboo? 
  
 FYI, the woody Taboo is the best looking Taboo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I would have also been happy with the base style you got as well but the ability to change up the wood base is clutch.  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


dan.gheorghe said:


> Hey guys. I've posted my review on Taboo MK3.


----------



## WNBC

I haven't thought about cleaning mine yet.  However, with tubes removed and power off, is there a reason we can't clean it with a slightly moist (water or 70% EtOH) dust-free cloth rag?  I'll have to check the Decware forums.  I'm sure somebody has brought this up with Steve.  
  
 Quote:


kendoji said:


> Actually does anyone have any good tips on cleaning and keeping the Taboo dust-free?  I do have the rubber things to plug up all the unused headphone inputs, we've talked about those before and they're essential for this amp, I think.  I'm still looking for the perfect dusting tool.


----------



## funch

I use a 1" paintbrush to clean my equipment. Works great for getting into the small crevices.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ 1" paint brush is a great idea. Recently I started using a carbon-fibre brush - good I understand in terms of conducting away any electrostatic charge.

Dan looking forward to reading your review when I get time later today...

Update on my speaker terminals to XLR adapter: *funch* is right  For Taboo II owners using the speaker outs is far superior to the SE phone jack. I didn't have to change my tubes and two weeks in I can say there is no going back.

With _the LCD2_ I use Lucid 1 (the only lucid I have!) all the time.


----------



## snapontom

I use a swifter and the one inch paint brush seems like a good idea.  Auto shops have brushes for detailing, they might work as well.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

> Thank you for the review.  Enjoyed reading it and I like the photography style you chose.
> 
> I definitely agree with you about the transparency and clarity of this amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you WNBC. I am waiting to get a balanced cable for HD800 to properly test it with taboo. As for the speakers, I would love to try some, but I need to buy a dac first then I will maybe get a speaker system 
  
 Has anybody tried* these speakers?*


----------



## Kendoji

A small paintbrush - that's genius!  I spent all morning in hardware stores and the thought never crossed my mind lol.
  
 I've been using the Taboo to power my 89db entry-level Monitor Audio BX2 speakers.  They're not fancy, but sound great for what they cost, and the Taboo drives them surprisingly well considering their relative inefficiency.  Plenty of volume for a small Amsterdam apartment.


----------



## WNBC

I see.  I don't know the scene in Romania but I found even a cheap pair of power efficient vintage Pioneer CS-99s sounded great with the Taboo.  They were not as good as my past Blumenstein speakers and probably not as good as the Decware speakers.  However, keep an eye for bargains and be prepared to speaker roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
  
 Quote:


dan.gheorghe said:


> Thank you WNBC. I am waiting to get a balanced cable for HD800 to properly test it with taboo. As for the speakers, I would love to try some, but I need to buy a dac first then I will maybe get a speaker system
> 
> Has anybody tried* these speakers?*


----------



## longbowbbs

dan.gheorghe said:


> > Thank you for the review.  Enjoyed reading it and I like the photography style you chose.
> >
> > I definitely agree with you about the transparency and clarity of this amp.
> >
> ...


 
 Dan, great review! The HD800's really sing on the Taboo with Balanced connections. (I have a balanced Silver Widow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 I also own the DM945's and they are a fabulous match with the Taboo and CSP2+ or CSP3+. The all Decware system is basically holographic. I first heard it at Decware during my visit then I bought them and enjoy them here. Big thumbs up!


----------



## Francoy

argo duck said:


> Udate on my speaker terminals to XLR adapter: *funch* is right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Care to share the details on your adapter? ;¬)


----------



## WNBC

I'm not sure which brand AiDee is using but I use a BTG 4-pin XLR to banana spades adapter.  For the MKIII I did not notice a difference in sound whether from headphone outs or speaker posts.  But, it was a quick test.  I can give it another try.  I'd also be curious to try CSP3>Emotiva Mini-X>Alpha Dog.  Surely there will be free time before we win the Superbowl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/~/product/category=2609202&id=14641214
  
  
  
 Quote:


francoy said:


> Care to share the details on your adapter? ;¬)


----------



## Francoy

^ yeah I just want to stress that AiDee and I are talking about the Taboo make II (I know wrong thread.
  
 It’s very possible that the difference reported between the headphone out and the speaker taps doesn’t apply to the Taboo make III...


----------



## WNBC

Indeed.  I recall reading that was the case.  I'll have to go back and jog my memory about the reasons for why it works with the MKII and MKIII.  However, even knowing that background I still wanted to try the headphones on speakers taps of the MKIII 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
    
  
 Quote:


francoy said:


> ^ yeah I just want to stress that AiDee and I are talking about the Taboo make II (I know wrong thread.
> 
> It’s very possible that the difference reported between the headphone out and the speaker taps doesn’t apply to the Taboo make III...


----------



## Argo Duck

What I soldered together is exactly as WNBC describes - an XLR (female) adapter with four banana plugs. I bought a Q-cable with XLR male, so it's a simple matter of connecting the XLRs.

Soldering was not brilliant but the main thing is to check with a multi-meter that you have the right pins to the right plugs and good connections (should be zero resistance if you have the right pin/plug; infinite e.g. "0.L" otherwise).

Positives (red speaker terminals) get odd-numbered pins; negatives are evens. Left channel gets pins 1 and 2. A handy source to verify the right connections (and more) is Rob Robinette's site (aka robrob on headfi I believe).

As the III already has XLR hp sockets, there should be little or no difference between these and the adapter. Might be a difference with adapter versus TRS though? There is definitely a perceived large difference with the model II.

Finally here, XLR socket artfully (ha!) arranged at front of Taboo, is pictorial evidence. Hastily snapped just now with no attention to lighting or composition, make of it what you will  The shocking pink cable received wife approval but was "forced choice". Having ordered new plugs and sockets but finding I had no speaker cable in the house, I butchered the pink speaker cable illustrated instead. Well, at least it saved me soldering the banana plugs I'd ordered...


----------



## Francoy

^ the pink cable compliments the purple cable very well by the way :¬)
  
 And thanks for the details!


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


>


 
 Nice color coordination Andre.....


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Lol thanks Eric, I think...


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> ^ Lol thanks Eric, I think...


 





 exactly the response I was looking for!


----------



## snapontom

That HP mod is fantastic.  I have a mod that puts  external resisters in the speaker outs. I can use them when I listen to my headphones without speakers connected to the amp. DEcware fabricated them for me and I keep them in my LCD2 box.   I have the MK II also.  Great amp.


----------



## WNBC

This brings up a good point.  When I had the MKII there was a lot of discussion about having a speaker load on the amp while listening to headphones.  For those of us with the MKII and no speaker switch that was a potential problem.  In the end, I just listened without speakers attached and enjoyed it tremendously.  Maybe I was missing out on a different signature.  Not necessarily better or worse.
  
 Now I have the MKIII.  Is there still a discussion about speakers loads while listening to headphones?  I cannot imagine it is necessary.  Why?  If it was crucial then it would be in the user manual and Steve would have made the speaker switch mandatory on all his amps or include a pair of resistors with each amp.  Am I on the right track here?  I feel this logic could be applied to the MKII as well.  Since Steve is a technical person I would think his manuals would include such info.
  
  
  
 Quote:


snapontom said:


> That HP mod is fantastic.  I have a mod that puts  external resisters in the speaker outs. I can use them when I listen to my headphones without speakers connected to the amp. DEcware fabricated them for me and I keep them in my LCD2 box.   I have the MK II also.  Great amp.


----------



## funch

According to Steve, Decware's output trannies can run into a dead short without a problem. Running them with no load, however, can fry them.
 That's why I've put one of these on each speaker output.

  
 That way, I can disconnect my 'phones without worry.
  
 BTW, here's the little box I built to connect 'phones directly to the speaker terminals. I use the quad outlet. I installed the twin triples
 just to make it more flexible. Wiring is Cardas.


----------



## WNBC

Thank you Funch for the info.  This is out of my expertise.  If you end up building these boxes as a side business let me know.  They are incredibly useful even if not for safety but just placement of gear.
  
 If I understand you correctly, we should start the Taboo with some load like a speaker or headphone.  Not doing so could hurt the transformer.  The headphone should be fine.  I go back to the days of the Lyr with no relays and reading stories of people blowing headphone drivers.  That was probably a very rare thing but even now I still start my gear without a load attached.


----------



## bearFNF

Right out of the taboo manual (from this I get that you do not need to hook up a load before turning the amp on):
  
 Startup section:
 ~Turn the volume at the front of the amplifier all the way down. Turn on the amplifier and wait for the tubes to warm up and the meters to read aprox 30 milliamps. This will take about a minute. Once the meters have stabilized you can insert the headphones and raise the volume.
 Operation section:
 ~You can use speakers at the same time you use headphones if you want. Due to the typical high efficiency of many headphones, speakers will play comparatively at a lower background monitoring level relative to the volume in the headphones. You may use more than one pair of headphones at the same time with or without speakers connected.


----------



## funch

I'm going to speculate that Decware has taken care of that inside the amp. In a previous post, I described how, on my Taboo II, there is a power resistor
 connected from each positive speaker post to earth ground, so there should be a load on the output trannies whether or not 'phones or speakers are
 hooked up. They may have done that on amps with 'phone jacks as a kind of fail-safe circuit, since many of 'us' don't use speakers.
  
 When I first got my amp, and before I was aware of the output tranny's sensitiviy to a no-load condition, I would routinely warm up my Taboo without any
 'phones connected, or without any external load resistors. I've never had a problem. Regardless, I'm perfectly happy with my current setup, so I'm just
 going to leave the external resistors in place.


----------



## WNBC

Been playing around with the HD800 and CSP + Taboo combo.  My findings are similar to what others have mentioned:
  
 CSP alone:  a more 3-dimensional and noticeably brighter presentation.  With the CSP alone I like classical, folk, and electronica.
 CSP + Taboo:  a more bold, tubey flavor that results in excellent body and low end weight.  With this combo I like jazz, rock, reggae, and vocals.
 Taboo alone: will revisit this.  I used the Taboo solo in the beginning but I prefer the CSP or CSP/Taboo combo and I haven't looked back.  
  
 I'm sure tubes can make a big difference as well.    
  
 CSP (single-ended HP output):  3 X Gold Lion 6922 + Phillips 5R4GYS
 Taboo (balanced listening output):  Siemens CCa + Gold Lion EL84 + Tung-Sol 5Y3GT


----------



## Argo Duck

^ nice notes WNBC.

Can't make up my mind whether to explore HD800 (I've never heard it). Have been considering LCD-X recently. Reviews suggest it's somewhere between T1 and HD800 with quite a lot of Audez'e bass/low mids texture and detail retained as well. So I'm tempted. But HD800 would be a greater contrast to my LCD2/T1/Stax Lambda Pro/RS1 and make more sense I imagine.

As well, I've heard enough changes recently with DACs, tubes, and speaker/XLR adapter to realize I still have a lot to learn about my own listening and preferences!


----------



## WNBC

If you can audition one for a couple weeks that's a great way to figure out whether it will work for you.  It takes a bit of time for my brain to lock in on the sound and decide whether I like the headphone or not.  Some headphones I liked right away like the LCD-2 as well as a handful of IEMs.  Other headphones like the HE-500 and HD800 required more brain burn-in, which could be part of the natural hearing transition process from one headphone to the next.  I think the HD800 will be a nice contrast from your T1 and LCD-2, but that's my taste.  In the end, some of us have to take the plunge because there is no access to loaners.  For me, the HD800 is probably the last stop in the dynamic headphone arena.  I tried the TH-900 and T1 but I didn't feel they were the best matches for the CSP/Taboo combo to my ears.  I think the T1 was way better than the TH-900 on the Decware amps.  For me the T1 had better mids and the TH-900 is too efficient for these amps.  I could live with the T1 but the HD800 was more to my tastes.  A less efficient, hard to drive Grado would be pretty cool on the Decware amps.  I enjoyed the 225i but too much background noise for my liking.      
  
 No real advice here  I'll be curious to when you try the HD-800 and whether you like the combo.  We all know there will be a _"when"_.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Quote:


argo duck said:


> ^ nice notes WNBC.
> 
> Can't make up my mind whether to explore HD800 (I've never heard it). Have been considering LCD-X recently. Reviews suggest it's somewhere between T1 and HD800 with quite a lot of Audez'e bass/low mids texture and detail retained as well. So I'm tempted. But HD800 would be a greater contrast to my LCD2/T1/Stax Lambda Pro/RS1 and make more sense I imagine.
> 
> As well, I've heard enough changes recently with DACs, tubes, and speaker/XLR adapter to realize I still have a lot to learn about my own listening and preferences!


----------



## dan.gheorghe

I've recently got a  USAF 596 rectifier from negura and I am just astonished of how good taboo +lcd x sounds with it. It is just amazing. The soundstage is so large and so natural, the positioning in depth is outstanding. Also the treble has better extension. The sound is overall more detailed and faster. 
  
 My 5y3gt is very nice too, but I love usaf 596 more as it is faster, more detailed, has better soundstage and positioning, better treble extension and spark.


----------



## jeust0999

/


----------



## funch

I too have found the my Taboo (version II) to wake up the LCD 2's. Originally I used them with a Mjolnir, which I found to be way too
 dark/muffled sounding. Sold the Mjolnir and put the LCD's up for sale as well. Fortuately I found the Taboo before the LCD's sold,
 and I haven't looked back since.
  
 As good as the Taboo sounds alone, it really wakes up when driven by the CSP. Plus, the CSP makes a great amp for the HD800's.
 The downside: spending all your listening time deciding which combo to put on your head.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Wow. Good to know. Originally I intended to add a Mjolnir to my Taboo to cover the SS side. Spent the money on a new DAC instead. Sounds like this was a good decision.

Yes, "Taboo wake(s) up the LCD2" is a good description.

Congrats jeust. Another mk II owner here (like funch) and completely agree with your description.


----------



## longbowbbs

funch said:


> I too have found the my Taboo (version II) to wake up the LCD 2's. Originally I used them with a Mjolnir, which I found to be way too
> dark/muffled sounding. Sold the Mjolnir and put the LCD's up for sale as well. Fortuately I found the Taboo before the LCD's sold,
> and I haven't looked back since.
> 
> ...


 
 +1....


----------



## Poladise

longbowbbs said:


> +1....


 

 You found Mjolnir dark/muffled sounding with LCD2 as well Longbow?


----------



## longbowbbs

poladise said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > +1....
> ...


 
 No...I was +1ing to the HD800 being a great match to the CSP2+ and adding the Taboo gave it more substance. I have not heard the Mjolnir. I do find the LCD2's to be a darker sounding HP to the HD800's. Not bad, just different.


----------



## funch

OK, I know that this is the III thread, and I keep dive bombing it with my II stuff, but I recently replaced my 12AU7 input tube with a
 Sylvania 12BH7A. Oooooh baby! Nice. Very nice. Talk about 'waking up' the LCD2's. Look out HD800's.
  
 Sorry for those III owner who have to use the 6922 input.


----------



## OPR8R

funch said:


> Sorry for those III owner who have to use the 6922 input.


 
  
 Don't feel too bad for us.  My Orange Globes (w/O getters) sound very sweet.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 LOL

And, we mark II owners are entitled to dive bomb this thread as we "kept the faith" with the older sister and do not chase any young pretender who shows herself  

Good information btw


----------



## OPR8R

argo duck said:


> +1 LOL
> 
> And, we mark II owners are entitled to dive bomb this thread as we "kept the faith" with the older sister and do not chase any young pretender who shows herself
> 
> ...


 

 LOL


----------



## funch

opr8r said:


> Don't feel too bad for us.  My Orange Globes (w/O getters) sound very sweet.


 
  
 Kool!


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## jeust0999

I ordered some NOS tubes for my amp. I purchased a pair of Mullard Blackburn UK 1963 EL 84 tubes and a Mullard CV2492 from 1962-1964 Mitchum UK factory. Currently using stock tubes on taboo mk iii.


----------



## jeust0999

Decided to try a rectifier tube also. RCA and Philips (Amperex). Ordered some blumenstein audio speakers as well.


----------



## jeust0999

Picked up a pair of 1959 Amperex Bugle Boy D Getter 6DJ8 tubes.


----------



## Frank I

anyone looking for 5U4G I have some for sale
  
 RCA  
 Sylvania 
 Phillips -5R4YS NOS made in holland
  
  
 I have 4 RCA abs 2 Sylvania plus the one phillips


----------



## jazzgas

Frank,  I'm interested  in the Rectifiers but need more details.  Email me at jazzgas@aol.com.  Mark.


----------



## Frank I

PM sent


----------



## jeust0999

/


----------



## thegrobe

Beautiful looking tubes! How does it sound?


----------



## jeust0999

Sounds great with LCD-2!


----------



## deucekazoo

Hey guys, just wanted to jump in here. I have had the Taboo for almost two months now. It has been running about 8 hours each day. I use it at work where I listen to music the most. This thing is beautiful and sounds great. The lucid mode is just icing on the cake. I am using it with the Fostex Thunderpants Headphones. This combo is perfect together. I ordered it with the high and low headphone option so I can try out different headphones in the future. Right now I am using the high option but with only the headphone jack. In the future I am going to convert the headphones to use the 4 pin XLR connector. The music source is a laptop running Foobar into the Emotiva DC1. Can't be happier with this setup.
  
 John


----------



## jeust0999

/


----------



## jeust0999

/


----------



## jeust0999

/


----------



## goldendarko

Hi,

I'm just wondering if someone could tell me how this thing sounds with 2 low impedence headphones at the same time, for example is there a loss in dynamics, soundstage, etc., or does it sound better with just 1 headphone at a time? In particular I am looking for a headphone amp that can power 2 of my ortho's (LCD-3F & Alpha Dogs) so my wife and I can both listen together. Sorry, if this has already been discussed but I've ready 10 pages so far and don't feel like reading another 114 so I figured I would just ask.

Oh, also, are there 2 single ended jacks, or 2 balanced jacks, or are there 2 of both?


----------



## longbowbbs

goldendarko said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm just wondering if someone could tell me how this thing sounds with 2 low impedence headphones at the same time, for example is there a loss in dynamics, soundstage, etc., or does it sound better with just 1 headphone at a time? In particular I am looking for a headphone amp that can power 2 of my ortho's (LCD-3F & Alpha Dogs) so my wife and I can both listen together. Sorry, if this has already been discussed but I've ready 10 pages so far and don't feel like reading another 114 so I figured I would just ask.
> 
> Oh, also, are there 2 single ended jacks, or 2 balanced jacks, or are there 2 of both?


 
 The Taboo Mk III was designed around the original Audeze LCD2. Steve built it to have enough power to run a low impedance planer magnetic. I had no trouble driving 2 sets of HP's with mine, though I am a Sennheiser fan and they were 300 ohm HP's. I would expect you would have no trouble with any two headphones.
  
 The jack configuration is your option at checkout on the Decware website. If you need a different config than the site allows, call Steve and speak to him about it. These are all custom units, generally he can make what every you want happen. BTW, Steve is much easier to reach by phone than e-mail....


----------



## goldendarko

Great thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

Without sifting through all of the pages of this thread......can someone fill me in on this amp and how it sounds with the HD800.
  
 Does it also need the CSP3 to sound its best.
  
 Does the CSP3 sound very good by itself with the HD800 ?


----------



## longbowbbs

whirlwind said:


> Without sifting through all of the pages of this thread......can someone fill me in on this amp and how it sounds with the HD800.
> 
> Does it also need the CSP3 to sound its best.
> 
> Does the CSP3 sound very good by itself with the HD800 ?


 
 The Taboo was designed specifically for Planer Magnetic headphones. It is good with the HD800's but the CSP3 is better. I had both and used them together with the CSP being the pre-amp and the Taboo as the amp. That combo is wonderful as well. However, if you are a Sennheiser fan (or any other high impedance HP) then The CSP3 would be my first choice if you were only going to purchase one device.


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Without sifting through all of the pages of this thread......can someone fill me in on this amp and how it sounds with the HD800.
> ...


 
 thanks....that would save me some cash.....have you heard the combo of HD800 and CSP3 ?


----------



## longbowbbs

whirlwind said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 
 No, I had the CSP2+. It was fantastic.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ And as the CSP3 is merely the CSP2+1 - this is simple arithmetic! - longbow's findings should apply in either case pretty much


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > longbowbbs said:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you, I have e-mailed steve to see if it can be built with balanced inputs.
  
 Glad to hear it is a great match with the. HD800
  
 Just love the look of the amp....it is a beauty, to say the least.


----------



## longbowbbs

whirlwind said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > whirlwind said:
> ...


 

  

  

 Here was mine with the Maple base. Notice I had him install a SE Jack in the front.


----------



## whirlwind

Very nice....the craftmans ship is incredible.
  
 If he can make it with balanced inputs and with that upgrade not breaking the bank....I will be more than likely all in for one around Christmas time.


----------



## longbowbbs

Good luck with the options! If it is possible to fit things all in I am sure Steve will be happy to accommodate.


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> Good luck with the options! If it is possible to fit things all in I am sure Steve will be happy to accommodate.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## jhljhl

funch said:


> According to Steve, Decware's output trannies can run into a dead short without a problem. Running them with no load, however, can fry them.
> That's why I've put one of these on each speaker output.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OK so I've spoke with Steve at decware.  You do not need to have speakers attached when listening through headphones however adding resistors will help voice the headphones.  This for the MKII and I assume also for the MKIII.


----------



## jhljhl

snapontom said:


> That HP mod is fantastic.  I have a mod that puts  external resisters in the speaker outs. I can use them when I listen to my headphones without speakers connected to the amp. DEcware fabricated them for me and I keep them in my LCD2 box.   I have the MK II also.  Great amp.


 

 Did Steve tell you - that resistors were required?


----------



## jhljhl

nick dangerous said:


> I thought the Philips 5R4GYS was detailed but gutless. Almost no bass. It was my least favorite rectifier in the Decware amps.
> 
> Let me cut-and-paste my personal notes from this year...
> 
> ...


 

 In a taboo II, the mullard 5ar4 trumps the rca 5y3gt no question imo. 
 Curious about the eml.  lorenz gz32 lush but still has bass control very nice find.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Agreed re Lorenz GZ32 being "lush" but still with "bass control" in my _Taboo II_ (wrong thread I know but as the Lorenz and rectifier discussion is here...).

After two weeks testing I found it did not suit _my_ preferences (with LCD3F; DACs were BMC PureDAC and Meier StageDAC). Nice mids, a little thicker which gave less prominence to the highs and detracted from the "being there" experience for my ears. Put the humble Tung Sol 5Y3GT back and immediately everything snapped into place. The slightly flat vocals and sterile sound Nick noted (with HD800 IIRC) might be a better match with Audez'es (2r1 and 3F)?

I look forward to trying the Lorenz with the CSP2+/Beyer T1 combo though - this might just work.


----------



## funch

I thought I'd drop by with a tube recommendation for the CSP. I've been using a pair of 6N1P triple mica tubes in the output position for quite a while, and recommend it highly.
  
 They don't come up on ebay very often, but I recently picked up a spare pair from seller py_alexey. They still have the ad up, so pick up a pair while you can.
  
 They will take some time to settle in, but it's worth the wait.


----------



## zach915m

funch said:


> I thought I'd drop by with a tube recommendation for the CSP. I've been using a pair of 6N1P triple mica tubes in the output position for quite a while, and recommend it highly.
> 
> They don't come up on ebay very often, but I recently picked up a spare pair from seller py_alexey. They still have the ad up, so pick up a pair while you can.
> 
> They will take some time to settle in, but it's worth the wait.




Okay - well I bought them and I don't even have my Taboo yet. 

What kind of sound do these tunes give compared to stock? Are you using stock tubes on the rest of the Taboo?


----------



## funch

The tubes I recommended are for the CSP (2+/3) outputs, not the Taboo, although the new Taboo III uses a 6N1P (or any 6922 derivative) at the input.
  
 I have the Taboo II which uses a 12AU7 in the input position. I'm using a Psvane 12AU7 as the input on mine, as well as the stock SV83 output. I've tried
 EL84's in the output, but like the stock SV83 better.


----------



## zach915m

funch said:


> The tubes I recommended are for the CSP (2+/3) outputs, not the Taboo, although the new Taboo III uses a 6N1P (or any 6922 derivative) at the input.
> 
> I have the Taboo II which uses a 12AU7 in the input position. I'm using a Psvane 12AU7 as the input on mine, as well as the stock SV83 output. I've tried
> EL84's in the output, but like the stock SV83 better.


 

 Very cool!  Well I'll have it to try on the input on my Taboo III when I get it next month.  =)


----------



## zach915m

funch said:


> I thought I'd drop by with a tube recommendation for the CSP. I've been using a pair of 6N1P triple mica tubes in the output position for quite a while, and recommend it highly.
> 
> They don't come up on ebay very often, but I recently picked up a spare pair from seller py_alexey. They still have the ad up, so pick up a pair while you can.
> 
> They will take some time to settle in, but it's worth the wait.


 

 Well I got the MK III Taboo and it ofcourse is absolutely fantastic.  But also this tube recommendation is great as well, it retains the warmth of the stock tube while seemingly adding some presence and 3 dimensional qualities.  I'm not sure I like it more than the stock tube as Steve puts the best in his amps already, but it certainly is on par.  I can't say that for the other few tubes I have tried with the amp.
  
 Thanks for the rec!


----------



## ToTje

I'm going to buy a pre-owned Taboo MK3! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've been obsessed with this amp for quite some time now, but with shipping and taxes it's just too expensive for me to order a new one.
  
 I see there are a lot of questions here about speakers, and although I'm not sure if I'd use the Taboo for speakers, I'd still like to know if it would be possible with mine.
 They're 8 ohm, 91 dB active (subwoofer powered) JBL studiospeakers. (Yeah I know; JBL's on a Taboo sounds like sacrilege, but hey: I already have them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 They don't need to go very loud anymore since I moved to a house that's quite noisy and I already annoyed my neighbours too much.
 That's also why I started getting interrested in good headphones, and well....one thing led to another and now I have an LCD-X! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like listening to them FAR more than to the floor standing speakers!
 Perhaps the Taboo might change that a bit?


----------



## longbowbbs

I had great success with the Taboo and the Decware DM945 speakers. Very holographic and plenty of low end from the 8" woofer.


----------



## zach915m

It should sound fantastic with your speakers.  It does say this on the Taboo page:
  

*I D E A L   S P E A K E R S 

 When using loudspeakers with the amplifier, 8 ohm speakers will play slightly louder than 4 ohm speakers.  Desktop use works with virtually any small monitors, larger listening room use is best suited with speakers that are 94dB or higher.*
  
 So it seems you should be fine, may not be able to blast your neighbors out but I heard the Taboo on Steve's speakers when I visited and it sounded absolutely fantastic.


----------



## ToTje

zach915m said:


> It should sound fantastic with your speakers.  It does say this on the Taboo page:
> 
> 
> *I D E A L   S P E A K E R S
> ...


 
 Excellent, thanks!

 Actually I really have to see if I'm going to use the taboo for my speakers, since I roughly listen for 12 hours a day to music. I don't think that's too healthy for the tubes in the long run.
 However, I'd throw my center- and rearspeaker and my Onkyo receiver to the attic if it would work decently and let all the sound run through my dac that's connected to the Taboo then.
 Saves a lot of space in my living room, plus I am really sure the sound will be much better.
  
 If I could sell my entire set for a decent price, I would and would only get Decware gear back.
 But 2nd hand prices for my gear are terrible...


----------



## zach915m

totje said:


> Excellent, thanks!
> 
> Actually I really have to see if I'm going to use the taboo for my speakers, since I roughly listen for 12 hours a day to music. I don't think that's too healthy for the tubes in the long run.
> However, I'd throw my center- and rearspeaker and my Onkyo receiver to the attic if it would work decently and let all the sound run through my dac that's connected to the Taboo then.
> Saves a lot of space in my living room, plus I am really sure the sound will be much better.


 

 Worst thing that can happen is you'll have to change the tubes.  I've only had my Taboo for a couple weeks but I pretty much leave it on all day and then just turn it off at night.  It sounds a little more cohesive after a little warm up.  I asked Steve and he said the only thing that will ever need replacing is the tubes, the amp will last forever.   So burn those tubes up!
  
 One thing is for sure, your LCD's will sound absolutely stunning with this amp.


----------



## ToTje

zach915m said:


> Worst thing that can happen is you'll have to change the tubes.  I've only had my Taboo for a couple weeks but I pretty much leave it on all day and then just turn it off at night.  It sounds a little more cohesive after a little warm up.  I asked Steve and he said the only thing that will ever need replacing is the tubes, the amp will last forever.   So burn those tubes up!
> 
> One thing is for sure, your LCD's will sound absolutely stunning with this amp.


 
 Yeah but those tubes can also be kinda expensive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fortunately the amp I'm going to buy comes with a lot of different tubes, and a friend here on head-fi who I also have bought gear from, also has a bunch of extra tubes that he doesn't use.
  
 Ah and thx for that last bit!  Yeah that's also what I understood. I've been reading a LOT about the Taboo and I really can't wait to hear the difference between it and my current Little Dot with Voshkhod tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm also looking for a decent upgrade cable for the stock balanced one from my headphone. Unfortunately the best cables are made outside the European Union and import costs insanely much in taxes.


----------



## Argo Duck

You say _active_ speakers? Speaker amps like the Taboo are designed for passive speakers.

AFAIK I don't think - ideally - you would use the Taboo as a preamp either because the output impedance is geared to see 4-16 ohm speakers, not another amp input (in this case, the one built into your sub). Doing this, you would probably not achieve benefits such as the Taboo's transparency, holographic imaging or dynamics.

Of course the above is null and void if you are able to detach your studiospeakers from the sub and run them from the Taboo instead?

Regardless of all this, with the LCD-X hps _you are good to go!_


----------



## ToTje

argo duck said:


> You say _active_ speakers? Speaker amps like the Taboo are designed for passive speakers.
> 
> AFAIK I don't think - ideally - you would use the Taboo as a preamp either because the output impedance is geared to see 4-16 ohm speakers, not another amp input (in this case, the one built into your sub). Doing this, you would probably not achieve benefits such as the Taboo's transparency, holographic imaging or dynamics.
> 
> ...


 
 I've read somewhere that someone also had speakers that weren't very high performance, but because they were active, it shouldn't be a problem.
 I realise that the amp of the woofers will influence the bass in a negative way, but the tweeter and the other speakers are passive. I'm not really sure if the signals get separated in a very transparent way though.
 The mids and highs still should sound lovely, I think. 
 The subs are the woofers of the speakers themselves; they can't be detached. Well at least you can give them an EXTRA sub signal, but the woofers themselvs are powered by an integrated amp.
  
 I'm talking about this model: http://www.manualslib.com/manual/79235/Jbl-S412p.html (The last page has the most important information.)
  
 Right now they're connected to an Onkyo TX-DS696, on the regular speaker outputs and sound really good this way. But if the taboo can drive them enough and the sound does improve, then the Onkyo is going upstairs and I probably only will use the Taboo.
  
 Anyway, that's all secondary; of course the Taboo + LCD-x combination is what it really is all about!  I use the JBL's only for background music or when I'm not behind my computer. If I really want to LISTEN and to feel the emotion of the music, I always put the LCD-x on. The JBL's have a powerful bass and a good, warm sound, but the LCD-x goes much deeper and the whole spectrum of the music is astonishing!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Great. Had a look at the manual. All looks good.

I use Triangle Scalene 2-way speakers of similar efficiency, about 91-92dB/W/m (4-6 ohms). Like you I only use these occasionally as background. They sound very good and get louder than expected with the Taboo (mk II).

Enjoy


----------



## ToTje

argo duck said:


> ^ Great. Had a look at the manual. All looks good.
> 
> I use Triangle Scalene 2-way speakers of similar efficiency, about 91-92dB/W/m (4-6 ohms). Like you I only use these occasionally as background. They sound very good and get louder than expected with the Taboo (mk II).
> 
> Enjoy


 
 Thanks!  Well I'll just try it out when I receive the Taboo.  Nothing can go wrong I guess. I'll still have to work a few things out with my setup here, but all in all I think everything will be okay.
 I'll post the results here but I think it will take a week or 2 before I receive the Taboo.


----------



## ToTje

Ah and another question: is it really worth it to get a balanced XLR cable for my LCD-x when I get the Taboo?
 I understood that the Lucid mode requires such a bable and that Lucid mode affects the soundstage dramatically.
 However, although I absolutely love my LCD-x for its sound, it almost has no soundstage at all compared to the AKG K712 that I had.
 Will the lucid mode be audible on an LCD-X, making it worth it to buy a balanced cable?
  
 Edit: Oh I now understand that Lucid Mode especially was designed with Audze headphones in mind?
 Then I guess a balanced cable indeed could be a good investment.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Although I have the mk II (which has only single-ended output or balanced if you tap the speaker terminals) I found even here Lucid Mode extended the dimensionality of my LCD2 rev 1 _a lot_. The rev 1 is known for an intimate, closed-in sound-stage yet Lucid mode - even with the SE output - made such a difference I kept it all the time. (In fact, from the SE jack the other 'option' is mono, so..! From the speaker taps my options were stereo or lucid and I preferred Lucid here too).

Considering the mk III has two levels of Lucid as well as balanced hp outputs, I think you will probably hear a positive difference for your LCD-X 

You may have noticed in this thread some mk III owners found 'super lucid' too much, or too much with some tracks. I don't recall but this may have been with _non_-Audez'e hps, such as the Senn HD800.


----------



## Argo Duck

I have a question about the meters for mk III owners now that some time has passed...do you find these useful? Have they alerted you to a dying tube? Other benefits?

Or are they just good to look at?!


----------



## jhljhl

I have both Taboo mkII and mkIII and I would say that one is not better than the other.  The Taboo mkII is more transparent to me but the mkIII stereo separation imaging is much clearer using LCD 3f.
  
 Also tube tip Cifte gz32 sounds really good in the mkII great midrange vocals and classical very smooth.
  
 I think the meters are helpful for matching tubes in mkIII.


----------



## abvolt

This amp looks really nice and I'd like to ask if anyone has compared this amp to the woo wa6se, sorry if this has been asked before. Also have any of you guys had a listen to the decware dm946 speakers with this amp, Thanks for any of your impressions on this gear..


----------



## longbowbbs

I had the Taboo MK III and the DM945's. I was also using the CSP2+ as the Pre-amp. It was a sweet combination. The 8" woofer in the DM945's is bigger than the usual bookshelf speaker and they we deeper than what you normally get. Very transparent and very holographic. I really enjoyed the combination.


----------



## Llloyd

If anyone could give me a tube recommendation I would be grateful.  I'm a fan of the signature of the stock tube.  My dac (concero hd) is very analytical so something too sharp will likely fatigue my ears very quickly.  
  
 Looking for something that will give me a similar sound to the stock tube or even just a touch warmer but with a step up in detail.
  
 I don't like the 'tubey' sound which I'm sure most people don't if they own a taboo.  As I said I find the concero very dry and analytical (it's too much with my bakoon amp and he-500).  Thanks for the help.


----------



## jhljhl

llloyd said:


> If anyone could give me a tube recommendation I would be grateful.  I'm a fan of the signature of the stock tube.  My dac (concero hd) is very analytical so something too sharp will likely fatigue my ears very quickly.
> 
> Looking for something that will give me a similar sound to the stock tube or even just a touch warmer but with a step up in detail.
> 
> I don't like the 'tubey' sound which I'm sure most people don't if they own a taboo.  As I said I find the concero very dry and analytical (it's too much with my bakoon amp and he-500).  Thanks for the help.


 

 I think you'd want to stick with the Russian tube and use a gz32/37 or 596 rectifier.  You might like the mullard gz37 skinny bottle.  Cifte gz32.


----------



## longbowbbs

I swapped the L/R for Genalex Golden Lion 6922's. It was a nice change and one that Steve said he enjoyed as well. Tightened up the bass and gave a bit more top end sparkle.


----------



## mmlogic

I got a Genalex Golden Lion 6922, but it makes huge, I mean really huge hum when using on Taboo III, maybe I should buy a new one, now settle with a 7.6V EDISWAN PCC88.
 as to the power tube, I suggest stick to the original.
 and the rectifier, I've tried OTK 5U3C, RCA double D-getter 5R4GY, EMI 5U4GM, and settle with USAF 596.
 BTW, HE-560 is fantastic with Taboo III.


----------



## ToTje

Hey, very simple question: when you have speakers connected to the Taboo, do they switch off when you plug a headphone in? Or can you switch the speakers off in another way?


----------



## Argo Duck

IDK about the mk III. With the mk II there's a switch to select speakers or hp.


----------



## ToTje

argo duck said:


> IDK about the mk III. With the mk II there's a switch to select speakers or hp.


 
 Thanks!  Then I'm sure it will be the same with the MK III.


----------



## Rizlaw

ToTje,
  
 Unlike the Taboo II, the Taboo III amp does not have a speaker switch. Nor, does it automatically cut out the speakers when a headphone is plugged in. It would be nice if it did. I imagine Steve may have felt that the switch was no longer needed or that it sonically degraded the sound via headphones in some way.  I'm sure Steve could/would add a switch if you requested the mod. Steve designed the Taboo III as a headphone amp for the LCD-2 that also works extremely well as a speaker amp with high efficiency speakers (>94db). I've never owned a Taboo II which, I believe, had 6w/ch output as opposed to the Taboo III which has 4.5 w/ch output.


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> Unlike the Taboo II, the Taboo III amp does not have a speaker switch. Nor, does it automatically cut out the speakers when a headphone is plugged in. It would be nice if it did.  I'm sure Steve could add one if you requested the mod. Steve designed the Taboo III as a headphone amp for the LCD-2 that also works extremely well as a speaker amp with high efficiency speakers (>94db). I've never owned a Taboo II which, I believe, had 6w/ch output as opposed to the Taboo III which has 4.5 w/ch output.


 
 Oh, that is a big disappointment then. I am buying a pre-owned taboo, so a modification would be rather hard to add.
 Then I should perhaps add some plugs in the speakercables so I can plug and unplug them easilly.
  
 Thx for your answer!


----------



## Rizlaw

totje said:


> Oh, that is a big disappointment then. I am buying a pre-owned taboo, so a modification would be rather hard to add.
> Then I should perhaps add some plugs in the speakercables so I can plug and unplug them easilly.
> 
> Thx for your answer!


 
 I don't think the problem is that it would be "hard to add", just expensive since you would have pay for shipping both ways. From the Netherlands, I imagine that would be a hefty sum in addition to the mod. BTW, just to give you my experiences with the Taboo III:
  
 1. When listening via headphones (in my case LCD-2 or Beyer DT990) I have to turn the attenuator down quite a bit, so the sound coming out of my connected Omega 3E speakers drops to a point where they are almost inaudible through the open back headphones. In addition, Steve feels that the low output of the speakers add to the headphone listening experience; I tend to agree.
  
 2. If you elect to disconnect your speakers while headphone listening, Steve recommends putting an 8 ohm resistor on each of the speaker terminal outputs. It improves the headphone sound.
  
 3. Down the road you should also consider adding a CSP2+ or CSP3 preamp. It will substantially improve the sound. Alternatively, you can also consider the less expensive Decware ZBIT if your DAC has a true balanced analog output. Connect your DAC to the ZBIT and the ZBIT to the Taboo III. You can read my post about the ZBIT here: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1415411351. You can read Steve's post about the new ZBIT here: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1406321627. It's about $600.00.


----------



## ToTje

Ahh he called it Zbit? I already was looking for it; I had read about him planning to make this, but hadn't seen of it was released yet.
 I was planning to get a CSP3 some time. Would adding a Zbit to a CSP3 improve the sound even further? dit:  I now read that you get an even better sound with the Zbit but without the CSP3. I have a Parasound Zdac; I think that the Zbit should work well with that, right?
  
 About adding a resistor to the speaker terminal outputs: I fear that goes a bit beyond my knowledge (unless you mean just connecting the + with the -, with that resistor?) , but I could ask the person who's selling me the Taboo.
  
 Thx for the info!


----------



## Rizlaw

totje said:


> Ahh he called it Zbit? I already was looking for it; I had read about him planning to make this, but hadn't seen of it was released yet.
> I was planning to get a CSP3 some time. Would adding a Zbit to a CSP3 improve the sound even further? dit:  I now read that you get an even better sound with the Zbit but without the CSP3. I have a Parasound Zdac; I think that the Zbit should work well with that, right?
> 
> About adding a resistor to the speaker terminal outputs: I fear that goes a bit beyond my knowledge (unless you mean just connecting the + with the -, with that resistor?) , but I could ask the person who's selling me the Taboo.
> ...


 
 Steven doesn't appear to be actively advertising the Zbit. I'm not sure why. I stumbled upon it from his post about why many of his smaller amps don't have balanced inputs.
  
 If you read my posts on the Zbit, you will note I mentioned that I felt the sound of the Zbit directly into the Taboo III resulted in a slightly more detailed sound. So, yes, IMO, the Zbit is going to provide a slight improvement over using a CSP3 at about half the cost of the CSP3. When I spoke to Steve about it, he agreed with my assessment and said that he uses the Zbit the same way. That's not to say that the CSP3 doesn't offer other benefits, but it is one more device in the audio chain. Simpler is often better. If I hadn't already owned the CSP3 and didn't need a preamp, I would be very happy to go with the Zbit and Taboo III. Also, if you need more inputs/outputs you could always get Steve's ZSB (Zen Switching Box). I'm not familiar with the Parasound Zdac you have, but according to Steve, if the DAC has TRUE balanced circuitry (not all do), the Zbit should provide a sonic improvement.
  
 About the resistors, all you need are two 8 ohm resistors ( I used two: Mills MRA12 8 ohm 1% M1324). Each resistor has a fairly long bendable metal wire coming out of each end. For the left channel speaker output: place the wire end of one resistor into the minus (-) output terminal and the other wire end of that resistor into the plus (+) output terminal. Repeat for the right channel. Don't worry about orientation of the resistor between the plus and minus terminals. You could also mount the resistors on a dual banana jack to make it easier to add and remove. Of course, if you keep the speakers connected, you don't need the resistors at all.  You don't have to do this, you can leave the resistors off and still enjoy the headphones.


----------



## jhljhl

argo duck said:


> IDK about the mk III. With the mk II there's a switch to select speakers or hp.


 

 I have a MKII without a switch.  I don't think the speakercut off switch is standard.
  
  
 Also, I tried a 7ohm 5watt resistor on hand on my Taboo MKIII - it does tighten up the sound.  Trying different resistors works well with the MKII as well.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Now you mention yours not having one I do have a vague recollection some mkIIs came with and some without, even when built in the same year.

I didn't ask for a hp/speaker switch but I got one on mine. Possibly to do with who happened to build it?


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> Steven doesn't appear to be actively advertising the Zbit. I'm not sure why. I stumbled upon it from his post about why many of his smaller amps don't have balanced inputs.
> 
> If you read my posts on the Zbit, you will note I mentioned that I felt the sound of the Zbit directly into the Taboo III resulted in a slightly more detailed sound. So, yes, IMO, the Zbit is going to provide a slight improvement over using a CSP3 at about half the cost of the CSP3. When I spoke to Steve about it, he agreed with my assessment and said that he uses the Zbit the same way. That's not to say that the CSP3 doesn't offer other benefits, but it is one more device in the audio chain. Simpler is often better. If I hadn't already owned the CSP3 and didn't need a preamp, I would be very happy to go with the Zbit and Taboo III. Also, if you need more inputs/outputs you could always get Steve's ZSB (Zen Switching Box). I'm not familiar with the Parasound Zdac you have, but according to Steve, if the DAC has TRUE balanced circuitry (not all do), the Zbit should provide a sonic improvement.
> 
> About the resistors, all you need are two 8 ohm resistors ( I used two: Mills MRA12 8 ohm 1% M1324). Each resistor has a fairly long bendable metal wire coming out of each end. For the left channel speaker output: place the wire end of one resistor into the minus (-) output terminal and the other wire end of that resistor into the plus (+) output terminal. Repeat for the right channel. Don't worry about orientation of the resistor between the plus and minus terminals. You could also mount the resistors on a dual banana jack to make it easier to add and remove. Of course, if you keep the speakers connected, you don't need the resistors at all.  You don't have to do this, you can leave the resistors off and still enjoy the headphones.


 
  
 Thanks for all this info! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah I've read the rest of your posts later last evening and things got a bit clearer to me.
 Could you tell me what 'other' benefits does a CSP3 have over a Zbit? I'll look into that ZSB; perhaps that might solve things. I'll also e-mail Parasound about of it has true balaned circuitry. It does have balanced outputs though, but I guess that doesn't always guarantee things?


----------



## Rizlaw

totje said:


> Thanks for all this info!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If your listening includes analog sources (LPs, tape or FM radio), I feel the CSP3 is an invaluable addition because of the added weight and authority it adds to the music through the Taboo III. There is a synergistic interaction between the two pieces. Also, the CSP3 has an adjust-ability factor that most other pre-amps don't provide. Read more here: http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html  If you are so inclined, you can read more about my CSP2+/CSP3 impressions here: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1377038564
  
 On the other hand, if you are listening to all digital (PCM/DSD hi-rez downloads, SACD, CD, mp3) *and* using the ZBIT, I think you might safely skip the CSP3. While I found the Zbit/Taboo III set-up slightly more resolving, I also think that the Zbit/CSP3/Taboo III is more musical sounding to my ears. But, I'm talking personal taste here and each audiophile has to make these sonic judgements for him or herself. I use all three pieces because I have a fairly large LP collection and, in the end, I preferred the more musical sound of all three pieces in the musical chain.


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> If your listening includes analog sources (LPs, tape or FM radio), I feel the CSP3 is an invaluable addition because of the added weight and authority it adds to the music through the Taboo III. There is a synergistic interaction between the two pieces. Also, the CSP3 has an adjust-ability factor that most other pre-amps don't provide. Read more here: http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html  If you are so inclined, you can read more about my CSP2+/CSP3 impressions here: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1377038564
> 
> On the other hand, if you are listening to all digital (PCM/DSD hi-rez downloads, SACD, CD, mp3) *and* using the ZBIT, I think you can safely skip the CSP3. I use both because I have a fairly large LP collection.


 
 Ah, thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Well I only listen to digital sources. In fact, I only use the USB port of my DAC at the moment, but if I find out how to switch easilly between speakers and an 8 ohm resistor (when using the headphone), I also will connect my tv to it (optical).


----------



## Rizlaw

I've asked Steve, more than once, to make a high quality speaker switch box to solve the very problem you (and I) have with the Taboo III and a few of the other Decware amps. He didn't seem that interested although he said it would be easy to build. The ones I've found online are junk. I have been considering writing a post about it on the Decware forums to see if there is any support for a new ZSSB (Zen Speaker Switch Box).


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> I've asked Steve, more than once, to make a high quality speaker switch box to solve the very problem you (and I) have with the Taboo III and a few of the other Decware amps. He didn't seem that interested although he said it would be easy to build. The ones I've found online are junk. I have been considering writing a post about it on the Decware forums to see if there is any support for a new ZSSB (Zen Speaker Switch Box).


 
 Yeah I realy would love to have a solution for this. Keeping the speakers turned on is not an option for me, especially since they're active speakers. Even at low volume levels, they produces quite a lot of bass and especially late at night that's really not a good thing here in my house.


----------



## Rizlaw

I just posted a poll on the Decware site: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1423588237/0
  
 You might be interested in voting. Perhaps we will get our wish.


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> I just posted a poll on the Decware site: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1423588237/0
> 
> You might be interested in voting. Perhaps we will get our wish.


 
 Voted and posted!


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> Steven doesn't appear to be actively advertising the Zbit. I'm not sure why. I stumbled upon it from his post about why many of his smaller amps don't have balanced inputs.
> 
> If you read my posts on the Zbit, you will note I mentioned that I felt the sound of the Zbit directly into the Taboo III resulted in a slightly more detailed sound. So, yes, IMO, the Zbit is going to provide a slight improvement over using a CSP3 at about half the cost of the CSP3. When I spoke to Steve about it, he agreed with my assessment and said that he uses the Zbit the same way. That's not to say that the CSP3 doesn't offer other benefits, but it is one more device in the audio chain. Simpler is often better. If I hadn't already owned the CSP3 and didn't need a preamp, I would be very happy to go with the Zbit and Taboo III. Also, if you need more inputs/outputs you could always get Steve's ZSB (Zen Switching Box). I'm not familiar with the Parasound Zdac you have, but according to Steve, if the DAC has TRUE balanced circuitry (not all do), the Zbit should provide a sonic improvement.
> 
> About the resistors, all you need are two 8 ohm resistors ( I used two: Mills MRA12 8 ohm 1% M1324). Each resistor has a fairly long bendable metal wire coming out of each end. For the left channel speaker output: place the wire end of one resistor into the minus (-) output terminal and the other wire end of that resistor into the plus (+) output terminal. Repeat for the right channel. Don't worry about orientation of the resistor between the plus and minus terminals. You could also mount the resistors on a dual banana jack to make it easier to add and remove. Of course, if you keep the speakers connected, you don't need the resistors at all.  You don't have to do this, you can leave the resistors off and still enjoy the headphones.


 
 I got the answer from the manufacturer of my DAC. The  analog outputs are balanced, but it does not have separate differential DAC chips. The balanced occurs in the analog audio output buffer ICs.
  
 Does this mean that I wouldn't get optimal results from a Zbit if I would want to use one?


----------



## Rizlaw

totje said:


> I got the answer from the manufacturer of my DAC. The  analog outputs are balanced, but it does not have separate differential DAC chips. The balanced occurs in the analog audio output buffer ICs.
> 
> Does this mean that I wouldn't get optimal results from a Zbit if I would want to use one?


 
 ToTje,
  
 I don't believe I am qualified to provide a good answer to your question. I can recommend you read this paper on balanced and unbalanced circuits: http://www.rane.com/note110.html It goes through the the three ways a balanced to unbalanced circuit can be made.
  
 If that doesn't help, a call to Steve will get you the best answer. From what I recollect Steve telling me over the phone, the best result will be from a DAC that has a true balanced circuit. From what you were told by Parasound, your DAC has a balanced circuit at the analog output. This may or may not be all that is required; I don't know for sure. According to the Parasound Zdac specs it provides 4.4v fixed on the XLR analog outputs.  It seems it should work with the ZBIT. Steve says not every DAC will sound better with the Zbit.  Sometimes you just have to try it out to see if it works in your system. The main point of the ZBIT is to carry the same balanced output voltage (4.4 volts in your case) to the unbalanced input of the Taboo III. This increased voltage, coupled with the high quality transformers in the ZBIT (Jensen JT-11P-1   http://www.jensen-transformers.com/transformers/line-input/), are what improve the digital sound. http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1406321627
  
 Sorry I can't be more help on this point.


----------



## ToTje

rizlaw said:


> ToTje,
> 
> I don't believe I am qualified to provide a good answer to your question. I can recommend you read this paper on balanced and unbalanced circuits: http://www.rane.com/note110.html It goes through the the three ways a balanced to unbalanced circuit can be made.
> 
> ...


 
 No prob! It's already fantastic that you put so much effort in explaining things!


----------



## maricius

Any experience with the Woo WA6SE, Decware Taboo MkIII, Dragon Inspire IHA-1, or something else? All these are Class A Output Transformer coupled tube amps (correct me if I'm wrong) that have sufficient power for majority of the planar magnetic headphones. I'm rather uneducated on tube types but if one could assume that the tubes that will be used in these amps are similar or the same, what are the characteristics of the amplifiers relative to each other? Price ranges are somewhat similar at $1190, $1695, and $1599 respectively. My budget for the amp is under $2000 with my iFi Micro iDSD as the DAC. The amp will be mainly driving the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog but comparisons on any headphones will be greatly appreciated. If there are other tube amps that compete at this price point, feel free to recommend. Thank you. I'm in no rush.


----------



## jhljhl

maricius said:


> Any experience with the Woo WA6SE, Decware Taboo MkIII, Dragon Inspire IHA-1, or something else? All these are Class A Output Transformer coupled tube amps (correct me if I'm wrong) that have sufficient power for majority of the planar magnetic headphones. I'm rather uneducated on tube types but if one could assume that the tubes that will be used in these amps are similar or the same, what are the characteristics of the amplifiers relative to each other? Price ranges are somewhat similar at $1190, $1695, and $1599 respectively. My budget for the amp is under $2000 with my iFi Micro iDSD as the DAC. The amp will be mainly driving the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog but comparisons on any headphones will be greatly appreciated. If there are other tube amps that compete at this price point, feel free to recommend. Thank you. I'm in no rush.


 

 In a Taboo MKIII - I would say the Brimar 5z4 can be perceived as transparent dynamic quick attack and decay with strong generally defined bass.  This is in comparison to the Mullard gz37 skinny bottle.  However one might instead prefer the Mullard over the Brimar and consider it more balanced and refined.  For the price, I am glad to have bought one from Langrex.  It has still not been burned in yet so still may improve further. 
  
 I would choose the Taboo over the WA6se for LCD3f.  The WA6se sounds like it has more power - dynamic attack but it does not feel as euphoric as the Taboo.  I would choose the WA22 over the Taboo.  I think it is a middle ground between dynamics and euphoric sound and does well with dynamic headphones as well.  All are good amps but depends on your preferred signature.  The Cavalli LAu does dynamic and euphoric very well.


----------



## maricius

jhljhl said:


> In a Taboo MKIII - I would say the Brimar 5z4 can be perceived as transparent dynamic quick attack and decay with strong generally defined bass.  This is in comparison to the Mullard gz37 skinny bottle.  However one might instead prefer the Mullard over the Brimar and consider it more balanced and refined.  For the price, I am glad to have bought one from Langrex.  It has still not been burned in yet so still may improve further.
> 
> I would choose the Taboo over the WA6se for LCD3f.  The WA6se sounds like it has more power - dynamic attack but it does not feel as euphoric as the Taboo.  I would choose the WA22 over the Taboo.  I think it is a middle ground between dynamics and euphoric sound and does well with dynamic headphones as well.  All are good amps but depends on your preferred signature.  The Cavalli LAu does dynamic and euphoric very well.


 

 Thank you very much for your thoughts. I will read more on the WA22 although tube upgrades would push it past my budget.


----------



## Argo Duck

I have not heard any of the Woo amps but I can say it is possible to tune the Taboo's sound to a large degree without having to buy expensive tubes. What might get expensive is having to try many tubes before you find the right ones! I was lucky...


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## jhljhl

You'd have to upgrade the rectifier on all those amps anyway.  The 6sn7 drivers are more a little more expensive than the Woo6se 6dr7s
  
 As far as the WA22 - The tube upgrade that will cost you are the tung sol 5998 power tubes. 
  
 You can always upgrade the tubes later.  I would say the stock tubes on WA22 are polite sounding: not too shabby.


----------



## jhljhl

The Sophia Princess 274b mesh plate that is offered as an upgrade for Woo amps is really good in the Decware Taboo MKIII.  However, I understand that using the Sophia in the Taboo may shorten tube life more quickly.  Nevertheless, I'd consider it one of the best rectifiers for the Taboo.  It is transparent dynamic with tight somewhat punchy bass without losing too much top sparkle and euphoric - well balanced.  There is less of a warm veil with this rectifier for some reason as well. It kind of reminds me of when I first heard an HD650 through a bottlehead amp.  I highly recommend it with the caution about the tube life.  
 (In addition, I was using mullard el-84 and ecc88.)


----------



## ToTje

WOOOOOOOW!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I got my Taboo MK III earlier today and I finally got the time to listen to it with my Audeze LCD-X.
  
 The sound is far less muddy than with the Little Dot + Voshkhod combo, the sound is far more in balance now (no extreme emphasis on certain frequencies, making it less "shouty") and I never thought this was possible, but I hear details I've never heard before!!!
  
 At some moments I did like the emphasis on the certain frequencies with the Little Dot, but that did hurt my ears sometimes and listening sessions get very tiring after a few hours because of that.
  
 I'm experimenting a bit with the lucid modes, and I think at the moment I think I prefer the original one, but for now I mostly listen without those on. I first want to discover the sound of the Taboo in normal mode.
 With high female vocals and low rumbling guitars I prefer the Taboo in normal mode so far, but I do notice that Lucid mode certainly adds something VERY special to the music! Low male vocals absolutely can benefit from it.
  
 Getting goosebumps all over!
 Very spacious sound, very 3D, much more refined, more realistic,


----------



## longbowbbs

Enjoy the Taboo! it is a wonderful amp with the LCD's.


----------



## ToTje

longbowbbs said:


> Enjoy the Taboo! it is a wonderful amp with the LCD's.


 
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I most certainly will!
  
 Hehehe always nice when people say that the LCD-X doesn't need an amp because it's only 20 Ohms and that it will sound good on just about anything. Well yeah, it sure does, but there still is a HUGE difference between the sound of amps that you plug it in!


----------



## zach915m

totje said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah - the Decware was made for those low ohm planars - it's the total package.  So good!  I've been tempted to jump on one of those pre-amp or gain stages on Decware's site just to see if it actually makes the amp even more of a beast.  Is anyone using a pre-amp between their dac and the Taboo?  Any difference for the +++?


----------



## ToTje

zach915m said:


> Yeah - the Decware was made for those low ohm planars - it's the total package.  So good!  I've been tempted to jump on one of those pre-amp or gain stages on Decware's site just to see if it actually makes the amp even more of a beast.  Is anyone using a pre-amp between their dac and the Taboo?  Any difference for the +++?


 
 I understand that the CSP3 most certainly makes a great difference (especially with analog sources), but if you have digital sources only, a Zbit apparently is an even better choice.


----------



## longbowbbs

zach915m said:


> totje said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks!
> ...


 
 I had the CSP2+ as a Pre-Amp and the Taboo MK III along with a DacMagic Plus. it was better than the Taboo or the CSP2+ alone. However, each way I tried it had its own reward!


----------



## jhljhl

totje said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You need to use a balanced cable when lucid is off otherwise you have a type of channel imbalance.


----------



## ToTje

jhljhl said:


> You need to use a balanced cable when lucid is off otherwise you have a type of channel imbalance.


 
 Yeah I already said goodbye to my Oyaide cable with jackplug and am using the stock XLR cable for now.
 I ordered a Toxic Virus cable with XR.


----------



## ToTje

Which DAC would be nice with a Taboo + LCD-X combo?
 Right now I have a Parasound Zdac, but I was told a different dac might improve the sound very much.
  
 I have been advised:
 - Theta Pro Gen V-A with a USB to coax converter
 - Audio GD Master 7 (+ bridge)
 - PS Audio Perfect Wave MK II (+ bridge) (Not R2R though)
 - Perhaps wait to see what the Schiit Yggdrasil will be like
  
 I also have been thinking about one from Decware, but that one is in 115 volt and I don't feel like buying a 230 volt to 115 volt converter + another audiophile cable, or a converter plug so I can use my own power cord.
  
 The Taboo works best with > 3 volt unbalanced input. Some of these dacs do have that, others don't. However, some already have great dynamics, so I'm not even sure if I'd need that voltage.
  
  
 Suggestions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 At the moment I am leaning towards the Audio GD Master 7since I have read a shootout between this one and the PS Audio Wave MK II and it was said that the Audio GD was just a bit more enjoyable, even though they come very close.


----------



## funch

I use a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. You can set the output at line level, or variable and use it to control the volume. It even has a remote.


----------



## OPR8R

funch said:


> I use a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. You can set the output at line level, or variable and use it to control the volume. It even has a remote.


 

 +1 for W4S DAC2.  I have the DSD version and it works very well with the three 3's (Taboo MKIII, CSP3+, and LCD-3).  It could be prettier but it works.


----------



## Argo Duck

BMC PureDAC works very well with Taboo II and LCD 2r1 and 3F. Terrific low-level detail retrieval - the subtle stuff - which is very evident in the bass and lower mids. You can hear very well the ambience of the venue and how the instruments/musicians interact with it. I find it easy to forget the DAC and immerse myself in the music, something I've only found equally possible with the Meier StageDAC (of the others I know, all < $1000).

However I don't know whether it competes in the area of Master 7, PWD II etc.

FWIW, like others I look forward to Yggy. I think LCDs can take every bit of microdynamics and detail you throw at them, even if it's pretty analytical (especially when you can 'tune' with your tube amp). From what purrin, zerodeefex, MisterRogers and others have heard, it does seem worth waiting for a couple of months of impressions of it post-release. There should be a fair consensus (albeit with the usual honeymoon/hype period to filter out ) by late May...


----------



## longbowbbs

funch said:


> I use a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. You can set the output at line level, or variable and use it to control the volume. It even has a remote.


 
 +2 on the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 with the Taboo. Beautiful combination. I have the DSDse version and it has been a great fit with many amps and headphones.
  
 I never heard the PureDAC with the Taboo, but it is a terrific DAC as well.


----------



## ToTje

Thanks for the insights, people! I'll look into the Wyred 4 sound dac 2!


----------



## djtw345

totje said:


> Which DAC would be nice with a Taboo + LCD-X combo?
> Right now I have a Parasound Zdac, but I was told a different dac might improve the sound very much.
> 
> I have been advised:
> ...


 
 If you want a DAC that is similar to the first two on your list, I would wait for the Schiit Yggdrasil. It is supposed to be more like an R2R DAC, the Theta is outstanding (I have one) but is 20 yrs. old and cannot play higher res files. The Schiit will be out soon, hopefully in the next few months.


----------



## ToTje

djtw345 said:


> If you want a DAC that is similar to the first two on your list, I would wait for the Schiit Yggdrasil. It is supposed to be more like an R2R DAC, the Theta is outstanding (I have one) but is 20 yrs. old and cannot play higher res files. The Schiit will be out soon, hopefully in the next few months.


 
 Thanks! Hearing that from a Theta owner is very helpful! 
 Well I actually already was thinking about waiting for the Yggy since it's said that it's supposed to be released at the end of the month,
 If the price is reasonable, I will buy that one, but if it is more than I expect and if prices of the Theta crash because of the introduction of the Yggy, I'll buy a Theta instead.


----------



## Argo Duck

Yggy = $2299. Jason (co-owner and amp engineer at Schiit) seems to think this price is firm.


----------



## ToTje

argo duck said:


> Yggy = $2299. Jason (co-owner and amp engineer at Schiit) seems to think this price is firm.


 
 Any information about the price in Europe?


----------



## zach915m

The non flagship vintage Theta;s can be had at a great price already.  I have a Progeny that I got for in the 300's (USD) and a Pro Basic that I paid $500 for.  They are both fantastic and I really don't miss not being able to play super high res 192 files because they just sound so incredible.  They are perfect side-kicks to the Taboo III.  Ofcourse they do no have exactly the same chip and implementation as the Gen V - but they are fantastic.  If you really just want to get a taste of the R2R sound the Starting Point NOS 1543 Dac is a great place to start for under $250 bills and if in Europe it ships from France so that could be a good route as well.  Also a good match with the Taboo!
  
 R2R is the way to go IMHO, as I am also very excited about the Yggy.  I spoke with Steve Deckert about Dac's and he said NOS he believes the is the way to get the most analogue sound.  If/when I get a Yggy it'll be interesting to bring it over to Steve's place and get his thoughts on it.  Although he doesn't have much need for one with his fantastic reel to reel and record collection.


----------



## ToTje

zach915m said:


> The non flagship vintage Theta;s can be had at a great price already.  I have a Progeny that I got for in the 300's (USD) and a Pro Basic that I paid $500 for.  They are both fantastic and I really don't miss not being able to play super high res 192 files because they just sound so incredible.  They are perfect side-kicks to the Taboo III.  Ofcourse they do no have exactly the same chip and implementation as the Gen V - but they are fantastic.  If you really just want to get a taste of the R2R sound the Starting Point NOS 1543 Dac is a great place to start for under $250 bills and if in Europe it ships from France so that could be a good route as well.  Also a good match with the Taboo!
> 
> R2R is the way to go IMHO, as I am also very excited about the Yggy.  I spoke with Steve Deckert about Dac's and he said NOS he believes the is the way to get the most analogue sound.  If/when I get a Yggy it'll be interesting to bring it over to Steve's place and get his thoughts on it.  Although he doesn't have much need for one with his fantastic reel to reel and record collection.


 
 Thanks for the tip!
 It is a bit difficult to find much info on vintage Theta hardware though; Pro Prime, Progeny, Pro basic II and tons of others.
 Many choices, very little info on most of them though.


----------



## zach915m

totje said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> It is a bit difficult to find much info on vintage Theta hardware though; Pro Prime, Progeny, Pro basic II and tons of others.
> Many choices, very little info on most of them though.


 

 True Fact.  The most hard info can probably be found here:  http://www.thetadigital.com/legacy_products.shtml
  
 Other than that there's just sprinklings of stuff on forums.


----------



## Argo Duck

Sorry I don't know 

You might get an indication by looking up the Europe price of the Ragnarok. US price is $1699.



totje said:


> Any information about the price in Europe?


----------



## ToTje

argo duck said:


> Sorry I don't know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha I actually already did! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not only with the Ragnarok, but with multiple dacs and amps.
 It is safe to say that the $ gets replaced with a € in most of the cases, so I expect the same with the Yggdrasil, but I'm not sure if this also goes up for NEW releases. Perhaps at the very first beginning there could be a price difference?
  
 Ah well, right after I posted that, I heard about a financial setback that I have, so if I want to buy one, I would have to wait a while anyway.


----------



## jhljhl

After getting the ok from Deckert, I tried a 6sn7 adapter. I think it increases a touch the imaging and soundstage- that is less warm than the 6n1p.  I think it is worth the purchase - recommended - however the adapter I got off ebay would not fit without using a socket saver so watch for that.


----------



## ToTje

Argh, I have to sell mine again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unforseen financial problems!
 That, plus I notice I'm really getting tinnitus. I listen to the LCD-X for many hours in a row every single day, and the volume apparently often is slightly more than it should be. (At least; I don't have that impresion, but the ringing in my ears tells me otherwise.)
  
  
 This really frustrates me! I absolutely love the sound so much, but for financial and health reasons I do think I have to sell it.


----------



## funch

I just started using this tube in the input position: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 It's down the list on rb2013's list a bit, but it sounds fabulous in the CSP. A bit pricey, but, with this tube, I'm done rolling; an end game tube.


----------



## Argo Duck

Very useful review - I hadn't seen it previously.

It's a pity rb didn't have a second tube amp on hand to compare and contrast - I never found the Lyr and CSP2+ to sound similar - but that's being picky!

I've got the Tele's close cousin, a 60s Siemens E88CC in mine and yes, fabulous with Beyer T1 and LCD-3F.


----------



## funch

I also use my Taboo with LCD3-F's. It is driven by my CSP2+ in a pre/power amp configuration. Since my Taboo is a series II, my input tube is a 12AU7.
 I'm using this tube http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/ Also a very nice, albeit pricey tube.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Interesting. I use my Taboo II with my LCD2 rev 1 (no pre but the BMC PureDAC delivers probably about 3Vrms) and a humble 1960s Brimar CV4033 from Tubemonger. It is _insanely_ good: extended highs, extraordinary bass impact and the usual nice mids. However, I begin to think my 2r1 is an atypical copy - I find it hard to describe as 'dark'.

The 3F I find much better with the CSP2+ than the Taboo. Of course, it may be the Brimar - so good with the 2r1 - is just not right for the 3F.

I recently acquired an HD 800. Amazing as well with the CSP2+/Siemens E88CC but possibly not ideal. OTOH, though I love the 800, I may just be noticing its slightly colder, more analytical sound compared to the 3F. Or, I need to find a 'better' driver tube for it...

We are in the wrong thread for these notes but perhaps it will bring out some Taboo III owners. At least the E88CCs are on topic


----------



## funch

TBH I don't find that the CSP has enough to drive the 3F's properly. I don't even use the TRS jack on the Taboo for the 3F's. Rather, I built an adapter box that runs from the speaker taps to a 
 4 pin XLR and have my 3F's wired balanced. Much better sound IMHO. You can see the box on page 122 of this thread.


----------



## jhljhl

I find the CSP2+ and Taboo III sounds very good with hd800. Gives more weight to the airiness of hd800 though taboo iii alone is good too but a little bass light.  I like the combo with LCD3f better than taboo III alone- there is more bass slam and more warmth/body to treble while still airy.


----------



## ZERUNG

Folks,
 Is the Taboo III better than Dragon Inspire IHA-1 Tube Headphone Amp?
 Will be using with LCD2 (Will upgrade to LCD3F).
 Cheers
 Z


----------



## Argo Duck

There may not be any Taboo III owners here with experience of the IHA-1.

In case there are, it would be helpful if you explain what you mean by "better". What qualities are important to you?


----------



## ZERUNG

argo duck said:


> There may not be any Taboo III owners here with experience of the IHA-1.
> 
> In case there are, it would be helpful if you explain what you mean by "better". What qualities are important to you?


 
 argh!! You have hit the proverbial nail on the head.... But I dont want to be so specific. Nevertheless let me try set as a path to my query. I think my Ican is very good amp,generally happy: But I want to move on to a better tube based Amp that does not cost me an arm and a leg (And upgrade my Can also). I do want musical amp, better in the mids with voice and shimmering in the highs.I am not big into soundstage - but that would be a bonus. So will the bottom end where I prefer a little bit more tighter bass.Yes I do like dynamic offering..... So that almost makes my request list. Thanks
 PS. IHA-1 is cheaper, sounds very esoteric, which I love....similar to my Lamp DAC - which trounces the competition with out too much public fanfare..


----------



## longbowbbs

zerung said:


> argo duck said:
> 
> 
> > There may not be any Taboo III owners here with experience of the IHA-1.
> ...


 
 I have owned the Taboo MK III and have spent time with the IHA-1.  Both use 5U4G variants for Rectifiers however, they differ from there with the Taboo running a Trio of 6922/6N1P's for input/output tubes vs the IHA-1 using a pair of 6SN7's. The Taboo has more power and was built to be optimized for Planar Magnetic (Specifically the LCD-2) headphones. I got to listen to the prototype of the Taboo MK III at Decware with Steve's own pair of LCD-2's. The IHA-1 is likely more suited to higher impedance cans like Sennheiser HD650 or HD800's. I found the Taboo was awesome with those same HD800's so if you are going to run Dynamic cans it would be subtle variations between them. Planars would be better served by the Taboo IMO. The Taboo does have the Lucid Mode cross feed which may or may not be interesting to you. Both are expertly made and will last for many years of great listing enjoyment. They are similarly priced as well.
  
 I hope that helps!


----------



## ZERUNG

Thank you.
 I love the 5U4G rectfier and the various variants (Especially RT 5R4GYS D getter), the 6SN7 does provide some interesting tube rollings that may work well with the chain of tubes from my DAC to the Amp. I am also going to upgrade to the LCD3_P; the lower price of the IHA-1 along with the tube potential is pushing me towards this amp....the colour and the external design is not my cup.
 I will mull over this for a while longer.


----------



## longbowbbs

The IHA-1 should be sufficient for the LCD-3's. Frank I has a thorough review on Headphone.guru.


----------



## jhljhl

The CSP2+ and the Taboo MKIII is an excellent combination for the HD800.  It is not frequently mentioned for some reason but once I dialed in the right controls from reading this post I think was from Steve:
  


> Run the volume control on the Taboo wide open.  Set the volume control on the CSP2+ at the half way point.  Turn both input level controls to max.  Turn both output level controls to min.  Turn everything on and let it warm up a few minutes.  You will hear no sound.  Then slowly raise the output level controls until you reach a good listening level.  Your output controls are now set.  Use the volume on the CSP2+ from this point on to adjust levels.


 
  
 It is remarkable the 3d layered sound in the HD800.
  
 The Taboo MKIII is mostly noted for its synergy with the LCD3f.  However the CSP2+ and the Taboo MKIII also provide a much richer texture with bass slam as well.


----------



## checha31

Hello People,
  
 Need some insights from actual MK3 owners who have tube-rolled. I recently purchased (process of delivery) a Decware Taboo MKIII amp for my LCD3. I had heard the music from similar setup and couldn't get the experience out from my head. Lusted for it and finally made the plunge.
  
 However, the setup had rectifier tubes that were not part of the original MkIII. I cannot remember the brand. I searched this thread for rectifier tube alternatives but after going through 50+ pages of posts, I feel frustrated that I couldn’t get anywhere much.
  
 If someone can list out some good alternatives or point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it a lot. Any good suggestions on the output and signal tubes are also welcome 
  
 FYI, the type of tubes on the Decware MK3 are –
 Rectification       5Y3GT / 5U4 / 5AR4 tube rectification
 Output tubes       SV83 or EL84 / 6BQ5
 Signal tube         6922 / 6N1P
  
 Thanks….


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Have you tried search-this-thread or google to get a smaller set of pages to work through?

Sorry can't help further (I'm an 'actual' Mk *II *owner) but you certainly do need to tube roll and there certainly are many here who can help. If not, Decware's own forums...


----------



## funch

Here's what I use:
  
 USAF 596 for the rectifier.
  
 Stock SV83 outputs. IMHO, the EL84's are too soft.
  
 My amp is a MK II, and uses a 12AU7 for the input, but I use a Telefunken E88CC gold pin as input
 in my CSP2+ and like it very much. This one, platinum and cryo'ed. http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0


----------



## jhljhl

checha31 said:


> Hello People,
> 
> Need some insights from actual MK3 owners who have tube-rolled. I recently purchased (process of delivery) a Decware Taboo MKIII amp for my LCD3. I had heard the music from similar setup and couldn't get the experience out from my head. Lusted for it and finally made the plunge.
> 
> ...


 

 You might try searching the decware forum there is a lot of relevant info if I recall there on tube rolling.


----------



## checha31

Thanks for the quick head's up... will follow up on the feedback.


----------



## Brucemck2

I took delivery of a new Decware Taboo Mk3 today.
  
 Even right out of the box, with no burn in, with factory supplied tubes, and without being connected to my HE1000s via the balanced cables, it's a great match for those cans.
  
 Highly, highly, recommended pairing.
  
 Now I just need to figure out what tube complement to try.


----------



## jhljhl

brucemck2 said:


> I took delivery of a new Decware Taboo Mk3 today.
> 
> Even right out of the box, with no burn in, with factory supplied tubes, and without being connected to my HE1000s via the balanced cables, it's a great match for those cans.
> 
> ...


 

 That's nice to know.  I've used the MKIII with the LCD3f and HD800 both with and without a CSP2+.  I think they are richer sounding with the CSP2+ but the LCD3f with just MKIII alone is really good.  I'm curious to know how you would compare the HD800 or LCD3f sound out of the MKIII to the HE1000 for my reference as I was curious about acquiring an HE1000 as was also wondering about its synergy with the MKIII.


----------



## checha31

Its been 2+ weeks with my new Decware Taboo MKIII. So far, I have used it without any tube rolling (with my LCD3) to make sure I get a good burn-in with the stock tubes. Plan to roll them soon.
  
 My impressions so far -
 The stock without Lucid mode has a nice soundstage with good instrument separation. With the Lucid mode, I find suitable improvement.
  
 I have gotten some recommendations to pair the MKIII with a CSP2+ but I'm not sure how much of an improvement I will hear. Any thoughts/feedback on this?
  
 I'm looking forward to my Decware TORII JR 
  
 Update soon...


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I have the CSP2+ but with the Taboo Mk II not III.

FWIW I do not pair them. With my LCD2r1 I find the Taboo alone highly transparent and with other terrific properties such as nicely controlled, extended highs and quality bass with tremendous impact when it's there to be had. Combined, there is more 'weight' it is true. And more tuning possibilities. If you tube each to have a distinct sound you can alter the mix by how you set the levels between the CSP and Taboo i.e. raise or lower one doing the opposite to the other.

_However_ I also found the combination just a little less transparent than the Taboo (or CSP) alone. To help interpret this observation, bear in mind - again - I pair the Taboo with an LCD2 rev 1, not quite a typical phone these days. Not even typical of the Audez'e 'sound' perhaps, since the LCD2 rev 2, 3 and X models emerged!

Btw, I also use the Taboo to drive a pair of moderately efficient (90dBA) French Triangle speakers. Again, the CSP adds weight but I prefer the Taboo alone and _don't find it underpowered_. Doubtless mitigating the lack of preamp is that my DAC puts out around 3V rms - a little more than the standard 2V rms. That's a factor to consider as well.

To continue, I do not get these qualities with the LCD3-F, which seems to not reach the same quality and tunefulness of bass. Indeed, it seems a tad slow and so not the best possible match. Or I haven't found the right tubes yet.

The CSP2+ is an ideal match with the Beyer T1 and _especially_ the HD-800 (change of driver tube for each; rectifier = RCA 5Y3GT; no other rolling needed). So much so with the 800 I haven't bothered to try it with the Taboo mk II. (I have a bias to not expect Taboo and any high-Z phone to match as - presumably - the Taboo doesn't swing enough voltage. This said, I'm conscious many here whose ears I respect find the Taboo and 800 a great match. I must try it some day, as the proof or disproof is in the listening).

So jealous! Looking forward to your impressions of the Tori Jnr.


----------



## Brucemck2

jhljhl said:


> I'm curious to know how you would compare the HD800 or LCD3f sound out of the MKIII to the HE1000 for my reference as I was curious about acquiring an HE1000 as was also wondering about its synergy with the MKIII.


 
  
 I'll give the 800's a try over the weekend, after the Taboo is fully burned in, and let you know


----------



## jhljhl

checha31 said:


> Its been 2+ weeks with my new Decware Taboo MKIII. So far, I have used it without any tube rolling (with my LCD3) to make sure I get a good burn-in with the stock tubes. Plan to roll them soon.
> 
> My impressions so far -
> The stock without Lucid mode has a nice soundstage with good instrument separation. With the Lucid mode, I find suitable improvement.
> ...


 

 In my opinion the CSP2+ makes the Taboo MKIII sound richer - it adds a little weight to the sound - some might call it less transparent.  I generally prefer it over the MKIII alone with the LCD3f.  However, I do still like the sound of the Taboo MKIII alone with the LCD3f.  It is a matter of personal preference.  When I had the MKII with V-Caps - the sound was remarkably transparent from memory but I did not have a chance to pair with the CSP2+.  I think I heard mention that jupiter caps (in the MKIII) are more organic sounding than the V-caps and I would agree.


----------



## Brucemck2

Getting ready to try some alternative tubes I've purchased in the past for other units ...
  
 Can a 12AU7 be used in the Mk3?  (I've got a NOS Telefunken I could dig out.)
  
 Can an ECC82? (I've got some Gold Lions I could try.)
  
 A 6N23 Reflektor? (I used these in a Lyr2.)
  
 Thanks
  
 --------------------------------------------------
 Edit, according to Steve the answer to all of the above is "NO"


----------



## jhljhl

brucemck2 said:


> Getting ready to try some alternative tubes I've purchased in the past for other units ...
> 
> Can a 12AU7 be used in the Mk3?  (I've got a NOS Telefunken I could dig out.)
> 
> ...


 

 No they cannot be used in the MKIII except I think the 6n23 might work since it worked in the Lyr2.


----------



## Brucemck2

jhljhl said:


> No they cannot be used in the MKIII except I think the 6n23 might work since it worked in the Lyr2.


 

 The ECC82s worked in the Lyr2 too


----------



## jhljhl

brucemck2 said:


> The ECC82s worked in the Lyr2 too




Ecc82 is a 12au7. Those are 12v so I don't think they are safely compatible. 6922 tube is usually recommended telefunken or mullard. I think mullard emphasize mids very well.


----------



## Argo Duck

The Lyr2 is an entirely different circuit design from the Decware gear. The Lyr2 has a FET output (solid-state) with the tubes there for 'flavoring' the sound. Steve Deckert's designs are all tube.

I agree with *jhljhl *- do not try 12V tubes in a mk III _until you have checked with Steve_.

I forgot to mention above - my mk II has V-caps as well, doubtless accounting for the transparency. Which I prize.


----------



## jhljhl

I also found the mullard gz30 a really good rectifier nice euphoric.


----------



## Brucemck2

brucemck2 said:


> Getting ready to try some alternative tubes I've purchased in the past for other units ...
> 
> Can a 12AU7 be used in the Mk3?  (I've got a NOS Telefunken I could dig out.)
> 
> ...


 

 Sigh, Steve says none of these work, so they'll remain in the box in the attic.


----------



## jhljhl

checha31 said:


> Hello People,
> 
> Need some insights from actual MK3 owners who have tube-rolled. I recently purchased (process of delivery) a Decware Taboo MKIII amp for my LCD3. I had heard the music from similar setup and couldn't get the experience out from my head. Lusted for it and finally made the plunge.
> 
> ...


 
  
 An affordable rectifier with surprising performance is the mullard gz30, tung-sol 5y3, fivre 5y3, brimar 5y3... in that order to name a few.   WE422a sound incredible opening up the sound stage and details. Mullard metal base gz34 adds great transparency.  You should see the thread by dubstep girl on her evaluation of rectifiers.
  
 There are 6n14p-ev that sound very good.  Mullard el-84 sound nice warm in the mids and less holographic b/c there is no hazen grid mod effect with el-84s.
  
 Telefunken e88cc sound natural with good extension.  The mullards are warmer in the mids.  I have a dario miniwatt that sounds a little bit in between leaning toward the Telefunken neutrality.
  
 I'm going to try 6922 to 6sn7 adapters eventually.  That should be interesting.


----------



## funch

I have a MK II and tried EL84's, but liked the stock tubes better. More detail with the  stock SV83's. The MK II uses a 12AU7 input, but I used a Tele E88CC from Upscale Audio as an input on
 my CSP2 and liked it a lot.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 on the Tung Sol 5Y3GT - it's what I use with my Taboo. Liked it enough I bought a spare.

Nice to hear about the 84s. I thought of trying the 84s from nothing more than curiosity. Glad to hear it's not a "must do". I seem to have achieved everything I want with the stock power tubes.

dubstep's evaluation was with Woo amps yes? I wondered how applicable the findings would be to other amp houses and amp designs? Aside from the usual YMMV, to her ears etc.


----------



## jhljhl

argo duck said:


> +1 on the Tung Sol 5Y3GT - it's what I use with my Taboo. Liked it enough I bought a spare.
> 
> Nice to hear about the 84s. I thought of trying the 84s from nothing more than curiosity. Glad to hear it's not a "must do". I seem to have achieved everything I want with the stock power tubes.
> 
> dubstep's evaluation was with Woo amps yes? I wondered how applicable the findings would be to other amp houses and amp designs? Aside from the usual YMMV, to her ears etc.


 
  
  
 dubstep's eval was basically putting down on paper the characteristics of the tubes.  Like what makes a mercedes so special compared to a bmw and the different models of each line.  So I bought some of these rectifiers and can say, in my opinion, she describes the differences pretty well at least with the metal gz34 and we422a.  I think I replied with my impressions in that thread.  So now I feel I can understand her aural sense of impressions and can use her audio experience the next time she reviews amps etc.
  
 Like I was asking someone about the taboo mkiii and he1000 (I have not used) as opposed to lcd3f. 
  
 Also, rectifiers sound different in different systems.  So I can say they effect the taboo mkiii well but the cost and benefit ymmv.  I think Decware voiced his amps on the stock tubes.   I also think if you have two amps that use rectifiers it might be.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Indeed.


----------



## Brucemck2

I have my equipment in one room and my listening environment/chair in another. It's a good 40 foot run.

 I already have high quality (Audioquest) RCA run in an under floor conduit from the equipment room to my chair.

 My problem is that now that I have a Decware Taboo Mk3 headphone amp that sounds best via its four pin balanced connectors out to my new balanced Hk1000 and balanced Sennheiser 800s

 Anyone here know where I could find someone who already has, or could make both a:
  

Four pin male headphone (which would plug into my headphone amp) at one end and dual female RCA at the other end (which would connect to my conduit run), and
Four pin female headphone (which my headphones would plug into) at one end and dual female RCA at the other end.
 
 Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I also found the mullard gz30 a really good rectifier nice euphoric.



It is a great one! Underrated!


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> It is a great one! Underrated!


 

 It works well particularly on csp2+ because I even heard it was voiced for 5y3 type tubes.  But on the taboo mkiii it is good too.  However it isn't as good on the wa22.  So here is an instance where tube design really affects the amp.


----------



## jhljhl

checha31 said:


> Hello People,
> 
> Need some insights from actual MK3 owners who have tube-rolled. I recently purchased (process of delivery) a Decware Taboo MKIII amp for my LCD3. I had heard the music from similar setup and couldn't get the experience out from my head. Lusted for it and finally made the plunge.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, FYI I just put up on classifieds New matched pairs of Svetlana Tubes SV83.  I had bought in bulk and am selling some spare  pairs.  These are rare because no longer manufactured.  These are the best sounding power tubes I have heard for my Taboo.


----------



## Muziqboy

Folks,

I have finally found the best combination of tubes for my MKIII.

Signal = Amperex pinched waist D-getter 6922
Output = Matched pair cryod SV83
Rectifier = Western Electric 422a

Happy listening days ahead!


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have finally found the best combination of tubes for my MKIII.
> 
> ...


 

 I bet I would agree.  The 422a is excellent -layers of sound.  The 274b great too.  The Svetlana SV83 as well- tops.  Do not have the pinched waist though have heard good things.  Is yours from the US?
  
 The metal gz32 is very holographic for a really nice different sound.


----------



## Brucemck2

Where can purchase cryod SV83s?


----------



## jhljhl

brucemck2 said:


> Where can purchase cryod SV83s?


 

 I'm selling non-cryoed matched Svetlana SV83s pairs.  But do you know if they will cryo tubes for you?


----------



## Muziqboy

brucemck2 said:


> Where can purchase cryod SV83s?


 

 I ordered from here http://www.partsconnexion.com/product27238.html


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> I ordered from here http://www.partsconnexion.com/product27238.html


 

 Those are 6P15P made in the Voshkod plant in Russia.  $32 a tube?  I think it's a $15 tube that's being marked up considerably because it is cryoed but not even matched.  I have 6p14p-ev from this seller  http://www.ebay.com/itm/251932757494?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT .  They are some of the better kinds of either 6p14p or 6p15p tubes I have heard.  They are from the Reflector plant. 
  
 But I wonder if you can tell a difference between those do you have other power tubes?  I've had other 6p15p and 6p15p-ev (military spec longer life) tubes and they have a warmer color to them.  But the Svetlana SV83 are not like any of them they are transparent but warm and really seem to enhance the hazen grid mod.  Anyway, I don't feel like spending over $64 to find out but I might .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I found this: Going on anode (plate) dissipation data, the 6P14P and its variants are quoted at 14W (300-400V), whereas the SV83 and its variants are quoted at 12W (330V) dissipation. 6BQ5 (EL84) is rated at 12W (300V) and 7189 also at 12W (400V) for comparisons' sake.


----------



## Muziqboy

jhljhl said:


> Those are 6P15P made in the Voshkod plant in Russia.  $32 a tube?  I think it's a $15 tube that's being marked up considerably because it is cryoed but not even matched.  I have 6p14p-ev from this seller  http://www.ebay.com/itm/251932757494?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT .  They are some of the better kinds of either 6p14p or 6p15p tubes I have heard.  They are from the Reflector plant.
> 
> But I wonder if you can tell a difference between those do you have other power tubes?  I've had other 6p15p and 6p15p-ev (military spec longer life) tubes and they have a warmer color to them.  But the Svetlana SV83 are not like any of them they are transparent but warm and really seem to enhance the hazen grid mod.  Anyway, I don't feel like spending over $64 to find out but I might ....
> 
> ...


 

 The ones I got are matched. You need to let them know that you want a matched pair when you order and there is no extra charge for it. Compared to the original power tubes that came stock with my MKIII, these cryoed pair, to me sounds more meatier.


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> The ones I got are matched. You need to let them know that you want a matched pair when you order and there is no extra charge for it. Compared to the original power tubes that came stock with my MKIII, these cryoed pair, to me sounds more meatier.




That's what I thought. The 6n15p are more lush sounding than the 6n14 but the latter are more transparent and ring clearer like a bell. I think the Svetlana sv83 are in between.


----------



## jhljhl

I _think _I remember Steve from decware said that I could use a 6sn7 adapter for the MKIII.  I tried a regular ge 6sn7.  I highly recommend it.  It opens up the sound stage quite a bit and a more holographic effect.


----------



## jhljhl

Not many decware users here. But wanted to note that the decware taboo mkIII with a csp2+ drives the hd650 very nicely - lifting the "veil" some call it.  It sounds great with an otl amp like the csp2+ alone but used in conjunction through the mkIII - it has more dynamic grip and depth - using a mullardz gz32 and a newly acquired white labeled pq amperex 6922 d-getter.  The csp2+ otl amp there is transparency and overall smoothness but the imaging is really increased through the mkIII.
  
 I don't see much written about the MKIII with the hd650.  The hd800 with the CSP2+ and MKIII is also just as nice.  I have not read a description of it but there is more power, depth - imaging, and warmth with the combination.  The sound stage is not as wide as on a WA22 but there is good width and depth where it does not sound so expansive which can be not called for with some music on the hd800.  This comes in with vocals arias, solo instruments, and some classic rock.


----------



## Muziqboy

Upgraded my input tube to a '*Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields'*
 from this 6922 tube review http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
 Details and clarity was multiplied by 2 times. Also replaced the stock .315 ma fuse with a Hi-Fi tuning supreme fuse for that last 1-2% of audio nirvana boost.
 I'm done tweaking the Taboo, I don't think it can get better than this.


----------



## Contrails

Gents, is the hum issues finally been addressed? Also, with LCD-X, one must get the option of Low gain on the taboo mk3? I am thinking of getting the taboo mk3 and csp preamp.  What's the waiting time these days?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Argo Duck

Hum issues??? AFAIK Decware amps are known for their quietness. If some had hum, may mean a flawed build? Or ground loop.

Taboo III has the sensitivity to not need pre-amping. Adding a CSP would be for sound-tuning reasons - which you can also do with your choice of tubes.

As for waiting time these days, ask Decware. Phone don't email!


----------



## Muziqboy

Been happily listening to my Taboo for almost 2 yrs. now and no hum issues here.
Pretty dead quiet.


----------



## mmlogic

contrails said:


> Gents, is the hum issues finally been addressed? Also, with LCD-X, one must get the option of Low gain on the taboo mk3? I am thinking of getting the taboo mk3 and csp preamp.  What's the waiting time these days?
> 
> Thanks


 
 TABOO is not designed for high sensitivity headphones, for average sensitivity headphones (under 95db?) it's quiet enough.
 definitely don't need low gain for LCD-X, AMOF, TABOO's default gain setting is lower then most amp I have.


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> Gents, is the hum issues finally been addressed? Also, with LCD-X, one must get the option of Low gain on the taboo mk3? I am thinking of getting the taboo mk3 and csp preamp.  What's the waiting time these days?
> 
> Thanks


 

 The taboo mk3 and csp2+ have been an excellent system for me.  I think think they sound very nice even with hd650 and hd800 and are really synergistic of course with lcd3f's.  I like the lcd3f with and without the pre.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks for the replies. Would the sound be described as rich, warm and clean with good bass impact? Depending on tubes of course. And is the amp very responsive to tube rolling? I mean major changes in sound ? I am torn between the Taboo and Wa22 for Lcd-X.


----------



## Argo Duck

Taboo mk II is _very_ responsive to rolling. See no reason why mk III would differ.

The sound can be tailored from warm through neutral to cool, to taste. I prefer neutral. I find it just right between wet and dry - I presume it could be richened if wished (i.e. harmonics are nicely present; not dry; tails extend well). Bass impact is excellent - with my LCD2.1 there is huge 'impact'. Interestingly, I find it more dynamic/lively and with good treble extension with the darker 2.1s. These qualities far exceeded any of the midrange SS amps I tried (Violectric V100; Meier Concerto; and Meier Classic although Classic brings qualities of its own).

Lucid mode - Taboo II, not the 'super' Lucid the III has - is a real plus with phones like classic, non-fazored Audeze's.

At times I have thought it a touch 'slow' on midrange transients compared to - e.g. - the CSP2+. Hard to be sure as the amps are built for different impedances so not apples for apples.


----------



## Contrails

> Taboo mk II is _very_ responsive to rolling. See no reason why mk III would differ.
> 
> The sound can be tailored from warm through neutral to cool, to taste. I prefer neutral. I find it just right between wet and dry - I presume it could be richened if wished (i.e. harmonics are nicely present; not dry; tails extend well). Bass impact is excellent - with my LCD2.1 there is huge 'impact'. Interestingly, I find it more dynamic/lively and with good treble extension with the darker 2.1s. These qualities far exceeded any of the midrange SS amps I tried (Violectric V100; Meier Concerto; and Meier Classic although Classic brings qualities of its own).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you.  Makes things even more interesting...


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> Thanks for the replies. Would the sound be described as rich, warm and clean with good bass impact? Depending on tubes of course. And is the amp very responsive to tube rolling? I mean major changes in sound ? I am torn between the Taboo and Wa22 for Lcd-X.


 

 I have both.  I use the hd800 and lcd3f with the wa22.  And the lcd3f with the mkIII.  The wa22 has nice midrange and soundstage but some say the bass is lacking- I find it sufficient.  The mkIII has better bass slam and more transparent but less soundstage than wa22.  The hazen grid and lucid mode helps with the latter.


----------



## Pale Rider

Have any fellow Mk III owners had a chance to hear the Mk III with the Abyss 1266 cans?


----------



## Muziqboy

I am not sure the MKIII can drive the Abyss since it only puts out 1.7 watts per side at the most and I think the Abyss definitely needs more than that to really shine.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ It's not just about power but I'm sure you know that. Needed is someone in a position to _try it and report back_!


----------



## jhljhl

I've been using the hd800 with a we 422a and pinched waist 6922 on the MKIII - it is impressive.  It is warm but delicate sounding airy but with surprising dynamic bass depth.


----------



## Muziqboy

jhljhl said:


> I've been using the hd800 with a we 422a and pinched waist 6922 on the MKIII - it is impressive.  It is warm but delicate sounding airy but with surprising dynamic bass depth.


 
  
 If you can hunt down a *Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields,* I suggest you give it a try. It is a step up from the pinched waist 6922. Running the same set-up you have except for the Silver Shields in the input. I will also suggest that you replace the stock fuse of the MKIII to a Audio Horizons Platinum Reference fuse and I assure you that you will be smiling from ear to ear.


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> If you can hunt down a *Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields,* I suggest you give it a try. It is a step up from the pinched waist 6922. Running the same set-up you have except for the Silver Shields in the input. I will also suggest that you replace the stock fuse of the MKIII to a Audio Horizons Platinum Reference fuse and I assure you that you will be smiling from ear to ear.


 

 Thanks I might do that - I'm really surprised at how much I like this pairing with hd800 as MKIII is seen as mostly for planars.


----------



## jhljhl

I've now switched to a fat bottle gz37.  Increased warmer midrange already there with mullard el84.  With a mytek as also dac/pre-amp I actually think this combo rivals WA22 in musicality.


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> If you can hunt down a *Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields,* I suggest you give it a try. It is a step up from the pinched waist 6922. Running the same set-up you have except for the Silver Shields in the input. I will also suggest that you replace the stock fuse of the MKIII to a Audio Horizons Platinum Reference fuse and I assure you that you will be smiling from ear to ear.


 

 I replaced the fuse with a hifi supreme.  It is an immediately noticeable upgrade.  Bass hits harder, imaging is cleared up, faster decay.


----------



## Muziqboy

I used to have the HiFi Tuning Supreme in my MKIII until I discovered the AudioHorizons Platinum Reference fuse which improved the sound even more by leaps and bounds.

It is not cheap though @ $117.00 a pop.


----------



## jhljhl

muziqboy said:


> I used to have the HiFi Tuning Supreme in my MKIII until I discovered the AudioHorizons Platinum Reference fuse which improved the sound even more by leaps and bounds.
> 
> It is not cheap though @ $117.00 a pop.


 

 I've one in another amp but I'll try it out one day thanks.


----------



## Brucemck2

What size and rating do you purchase for that fuse?


----------



## Muziqboy

brucemck2 said:


> What size and rating do you purchase for that fuse?


 
 It's a 3.15amp 20mm size fuse.


----------



## Brucemck2

muziqboy said:


> It's a 3.15amp 20mm size fuse.


 

 Slow blow or fast blow?


----------



## Muziqboy

You can use either one. I have a slow blow on mine.


----------



## svmusa

My current headphones are Beyer DT150, Senn HD380, Feenix Aria/telefunken audion. I have JVC DX1000 on the way and some point planning to go for Planar as well.
  
 Looking to venture into vacuum tube amps and hoping this could be my end game amp for a while, looking for thoughts and experiences on following order upgrade options. 
  
 1> Teflon Vcaps ($200) vs Cryo treated beeswax
  
 2> High & Low gains ($200)
  
 3> UFO Widebandwith $160
  
 Also hoping the amp is capable of providing details and is dynamic rather than the typical tube warm lush sound. I will sure have to invest in some NOS tubes I suppose..


----------



## Argo Duck

Can't answer most of these questions. Suggest you consider the CSP3 as well.

Decware amps do not have the "typical tube warm lush sound". Rather, they can have pretty much any sound you want them to have. In fact, I understand warm and lush are not 'typical' of tube amps in general these days. It's more about what tubes you choose.

Decwares are _very_ responsive to tube-rolling.


----------



## nprathap

zentriode said:


> I did in fact design the Taboo MK III for the LCD2 and LCD3 headphones.  These hard to drive planar headphones deserved a purpose built amplifier because of both their fidelity and popularity.
> 
> We already make a great OTL headphone amplifier/preamp that is ideal for use with regular headphones. (CSP3) And there was no LCDX at that time.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the Zen MKIII Taboo with the high and low gain option.  I am not sure how can I change the gain, I wanted to use the Taboo to drive HD 800 / HD 800 S. But worried about the power as Sennhizer recommends max mover to be 500 mw at 300 Ohm where as Taboo - 1700 mw at 300 ohm.  Is the volume knob works as the gain controller as well on Taboo?


----------



## jhljhl

The HEK through the MKIII is airy but nice warm midrange.  Curiously, however even with 1700mw I'm at the very high end of the volume knob for the single ended-
 I assume like the lcd3f there'll be a little more of what seems like control and powering through the balanced input.


----------



## stoutblock

I finally got my Decware headphone setup complete. 
  
 FLAC > Neutral cable USB (blue) > Audio-gd Master 7 (USB32) > Avanti Allegro > Decware CSP3 (3) Mullard CV2493 (1) RCA 5Y3GT > Decware Taboo III (1) Mullard CV2493 (2) 6P15P-EV (1) Mullard GZ34 "DD" > Aphrodite Zeus Quad21 OCC Series 7 > Audeze LCD 2.2
  
Sounds pretty darn good!


----------



## Muziqboy

stoutblock said:


> I finally got my Decware headphone setup complete.
> 
> FLAC > Neutral cable USB (blue) > Audio-gd Master 7 (USB32) > Avanti Allegro > Decware CSP3 (3) Mullard CV2493 (1) RCA 5Y3GT > Decware Taboo III (1) Mullard CV2493 (2) 6P15P-EV (1) Mullard GZ34 "DD" > Aphrodite Zeus Quad21 OCC Series 7 > Audeze LCD 2.2
> 
> Sounds pretty darn good!


 
  
 That's great and congratulations!
 Now for an even bigger step up in the sound quality of your system, I will suggest that you change the fuses in your CSP3 and Taboo MKIII to Audio Horizon Platinum Reference fuses and install a WA QUANTUM fuse chip in each of the fuse. My jaw just dropped after doing this and can not believe the increase in the resolution of the sound.


----------



## Muziqboy

I also changed all my rca interconnects to Decware Silver Reference and got another boost in the SQ department.


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats! I have happily owned the CSP and Taboo (version 2 of both) for many years and have had no desire to change them. Hps to get the most time are LCD 2.1, LCD 3F and recently HD 800 (not the S).

The Grado RS-1 can sound pretty good from the Taboo and the CSP2 was the first amp to make the Beyerdynamic T1 'come alive' for me.

My one likely change is upstream - I see a Schiit multi-bit DAC of some kind in my future this year.

Enjoy 



stoutblock said:


> I finally got my Decware headphone setup complete.
> 
> FLAC > Neutral cable USB (blue) > Audio-gd Master 7 (USB32) > Avanti Allegro > Decware CSP3 (3) Mullard CV2493 (1) RCA 5Y3GT > Decware Taboo III (1) Mullard CV2493 (2) 6P15P-EV (1) Mullard GZ34 "DD" > Aphrodite Zeus [COLOR=002060]Quad21 OCC Series 7 > Audeze LCD 2.2[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=002060]Sounds pretty darn good![/COLOR]


----------



## snapontom

I have enjoyed the Taboo CSP2+ combination for years now.  I like the sound and the concise soundstage they offer with my Heresy III speakers.  The difference tube quality makes is apparent with these two Decware amplifiers.  The amps look awesome with my Thorens TD-124 turntable, Ortofon SPU cartridge, and Ortofon RMG 312 tonearm.  I like to use my LCD2 headphones as a reference for sound, they transmit much lower bass frequencies than my speakers, or Quad ESL 57's for that matter.


----------



## stoutblock

muziqboy said:


> That's great and congratulations!
> Now for an even bigger step up in the sound quality of your system, I will suggest that you change the fuses in your CSP3 and Taboo MKIII to Audio Horizon Platinum Reference fuses and install a WA QUANTUM fuse chip in each of the fuse. My jaw just dropped after doing this and can not believe the increase in the resolution of the sound.


 

 Sounds like a plan...
  
 Quote:


muziqboy said:


> I also changed all my rca interconnects to Decware Silver Reference and got another boost in the SQ department.


  
 I have used the Decware Silver Reference interconnects in my main system but like the Avanti Allegro better.  Overall a better balance.  However, I will give them a try with my headphone system in the future but right now I am enjoying the music!
  
 Quote:


argo duck said:


> Congrats! I have happily owned the CSP and Taboo (version 2 of both) for many years and have had no desire to change them. Hps to get the most time are LCD 2.1, LCD 3F and recently HD 800 (not the S).
> 
> The Grado RS-1 can sound pretty good from the Taboo and the CSP2 was the first amp to make the Beyerdynamic T1 'come alive' for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have ran a CSP2 with Beyerdynamic DT880/600 phones for many years.  It was a solid and very enjoyable setup.  I've also rotated the CSP2 into my main system as a preamp and was floored with the performance.  A giant killer!  I was so impressed I picked up a CSP3 for the main system and ran it for several months until I picked up a Modwright (which is a whole new chapter!). 
  
 Of course a great DAC makes all this possible!  For me I don't think the Master 7 can be beat...


snapontom said:


> I have enjoyed the Taboo CSP2+ combination for years now.  I like the sound and the concise soundstage they offer with my Heresy III speakers.  The difference tube quality makes is apparent with these two Decware amplifiers.  The amps look awesome with my Thorens TD-124 turntable, Ortofon SPU cartridge, and Ortofon RMG 312 tonearm.  I like to use my LCD2 headphones as a reference for sound, they transmit much lower bass frequencies than my speakers, or Quad ESL 57's for that matter.


 
  
 The CSP3 combined with the Taboo does add more thickness to the music compared to the Taboo III alone.  I have not tried the Taboo driving speakers yet.  I use a pair of ADS L420 speakers in my office system so I will see how the little set can drive them sometime in the future.  I also have a Decware ZP3 I use with a VPI Classic one and Dynavector 20x2L with a Bob's devices SUT in my main system.  The ZP3 is a great phono stage!


----------



## rediazvh

I have dilemma whether to buy deckware taboo mk3 or QUAD Pa One Head amp for my LCD 2.2. Im gonna use it with my macbook pro (amarra symphony) to my Chord Mojo DAC.
Does anyone here have compared those amplifier throroughly ? Really need help and advice here. Really appreciate any answer..
Thanks guys


----------



## Argo Duck

@rediazvh I have not heard the QUAD Pa One but having browsed its features I understand your dilemma. Both have similar key goals ("uncoloured sound") and features (both very tube-rollable meaning you can color the sound to preference, if you want to!). A quick look at a few reviews - one dubiously referred to tube amps as "warm" - shows the Quad is very responsive to better tubes, as is the Taboo.

It appears to have a built-in DAC? So some of your money will go on a feature you won't use?

It appears to put out 500mW at 32-ohms? IIRC this is _significantly less_ than Decware's Taboo range. The mk2 which I have puts some 2W into the LCD2.1 (50 ohms).

I'm not sure I agree but both Audeze's advice and prevailing head-fi wisdom is that - though you will never use the full power unless you want to lose your hearing :eek: - the lower-Z LCDs need around 2W at their nominal impedance.

As well the Taboo brilliantly drives high-efficiency speakers, single-driver or 2-way speakers (French Triangle Scalenes in my case). The Lucid mode really does provide highly focused sound-stage and imaging.

If none of the above are a concern then _on paper_ I think either would be a fine choice.


----------



## Pale Rider

I would echo Argo Duck's advice. I have also not heard the Quad, but I own the Taboo Mk III. To me, if you for some reason you need digital inputs, then the Quad in this price range might be the clear choice. But if you don't need those inputs, then why pay for them? I can wholeheartedly recommend the Taboo/LCD combo. Using the stock tubes, it is an outstanding combination.


----------



## rediazvh

@Argo Duck @Pale Rider Wow thanks  for the insight! it gave me some idea now to choose. i can't agree more on the DAC part. As for DAC, I Already have IFI Micro IDSD and Chord Mojo. No need built in DAC for my case. 
  
 The Problem is that i only can do audition for the Quad Pa One, Becasue There's no Deckware Importir in my country 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for me the Quad Sounds Ok. yet it sounds too bright and less warm. Somehow in the middle of listening session, I feel a tad of fatigueness. but mostly it sounds awesome.
  
 Based on the impression of Decware taboo 3 sounds character in this thread, seems that Deckware has the sound that i wanted. 
  
 Anyway Thanks a lot for the answer, really appreciate it. 
  
 cheers!


----------



## stoutblock

Well old Mullards really like the Taboo III !  Using my Audio-gd Reference 5.32 and LCD 2.2, Aphrodite Zeus Series 7 Quad 21 cable, Mullard CV2493 (true NOS), Mullard EL84s (true NOS) and Mullard GZ34 DD (original from my 299C) the results are very impressive!  Detail and transparency are up.  Upper mid range comes forward a bit.  Some have said the EL84 is soft compared to the 6P15P-EV but I only found this true when using a 5Y3 rectifier.  Using the GZ34 rectifier really makes the EL84s come alive.  However, the 6P15P-EV combined with a 5Y3 sounds pretty darn good.  I found the GZ34 combined with the 6P15P-EV was a little too much and sounded a little edgy and less balanced overall.


----------



## jeust0999

Edit


----------



## toidcans

I recently picked one of these up, starting to get familiar with the sound. I do have a question for those of you that have owned this for a while. 
  
 The instruction manual does not seem to indicate which way the two lucid switches turn the feature on or off. 
  
 Is the switches toggled toward the front of the unit off?
  
  
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## Muziqboy

To toggle Lucid Modes 'On' you have to move the switches towards the tubes.


----------



## toidcans

muziqboy said:


> To toggle Lucid Modes 'On' you have to move the switches towards the tubes.


 
 Thank you, since the tubes are towards what I would consider the front, it means I had a weird combination since both were on, when I first started listening, I will switch them both to the back to get a good feeling for the sound out of the amp with different headphones before I start to turn those on then.


----------



## Apina

I have unfortunately had to sell my decware taboo mk3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Over time I managed to build up a nice tube collection that worked unbelievably well with the taboo mk3.
  
 If anybody is interested in some very rare tubes then please check out the following for sale threads and feel free to contact me:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/809918/rectifier-tubes-western-electric-274b-amperex-mullard-5ar4-gz34-metal-base-cossor-53ku
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/809919/cca-input-tubes-telefunken-amperex-amperex-pinch-waist-siemens
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/809920/output-tubes-matched-pairs-amperex-7189-amperex-1950s-el84-telefunken-el84


----------



## toronto8

estreeter said:


> Guys, has anyone here tied the MKIIII with *speakers* ? I'm guessing something 90dB or higher, mild impedance curve ?
> 
> Thanks,


 
 To get the best out of amp yes it should be something that is easy to drive.


----------



## Argo Duck

^  that post of estreeter's was 3 years old!

But anyway...don't know about the mkIII but it's surprising what the mkII will drive, even inefficient (85dBA/1W/1m) 2-way speakers did well near-field.

90dBA 3-way speakers, not so much. Cross-over complexity may be a factor


----------



## doukhobar

Hi there Taboo III owners, I am now in the fold! I have my very own Taboo mkIII (well, new to me) which I bought from the third owner, it is in excellent condition with the figured bass and stock caps. 
  
 I have been running the Sennheiser HD600 and an AudioTechnica ATH-AD2000 both of which I know the sound fairly well to understand how this amp plays. I also started rolling the signal tube and rectifier, perhaps a little too quickly. 
  
 With the rolled tubes, I have been noticing some static in the headphones. This occurs no matter what volume level, without moving the pot. It occurs with either source - both my tuner and DAC get the same static. The static is louder on the AD2000, because I believe they are more sensitive phones. Also, that phone seems to get more static when I move the cord around. 
  
 The static sound comes and goes - it never overwhelms the music, but when the statis is present, it is noticeable without the music playing and the volume turned up at all. It seems that after a few hours the static goes almost completely away. I switched my recitfier back to stock, and the static was still there for 1-2 hour then left completly. I have not tried cleaning out the headphone jacks, which I am using single ended currently, as the static seemed to be tired to the headphones movement. This is my first real headphone amp, and I am trying to get into the HP game, but this is annoying! 
  
 Any suggestions? I heard sometimes it takes awhile for the rectifier tubes to warms up, and not to listen until 30 minutes after warm up. The rectifier is a 1950's Marconia U50 (5Y3) I was using, but swapped back to the Chinese 5U4G. Static has gone after an hour with the Chinese tube.


----------



## Argo Duck

Bad tubes are always a possibility. 

Another thought: was the amp returned to and re-certified by Decware? This would eliminate faults that may have developed and transfer the lifetime warranty to you...

Edit: I typically listen within 2 minutes of switching on, to excellent sound. IME 30 minutes is *not* necessary.


----------



## raybone0566

You may also be picking up electromagnetic static from another component. I had to move my amp because it would pick up static from my dac.


----------



## longbowbbs

argo duck said:


> Bad tubes are always a possibility.
> 
> Another thought: was the amp returned to and re-certified by Decware? This would eliminate faults that may have developed and transfer the lifetime warranty to you...
> 
> Edit: I typically listen within 2 minutes of switching on, to excellent sound. IME 30 minutes is *not* necessary.


 
 Sending it in the Decware for a re-certification was my first thought also Andre. These amps are generally very reliable but nice to get the warranty and a clean bill of health.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ really nice to see you still around these parts Eric 

Great suggestion above re EMF too


----------



## longbowbbs

I still am a big fan of Decware even if I moved on. Steve builds great sounding gear!


----------



## doukhobar

longbowbbs said:


> Sending it in the Decware for a re-certification was my first thought also Andre. These amps are generally very reliable but nice to get the warranty and a clean bill of health.


 
 Hi there Longbowbbs and Argo Duck,
  
 Thank you kindly for the suggestions. Right now I am trying lots of Deoxit. I only have D5 spray on hand, on loaded some onto an extra 1/4" adapter and pushed it in and out of both SE jacks about 6-8 times. Seems to be doing better now. Even the more sensitive AT headphones have greatly reduced static. 
  
 Before my current listening session, I also swapped in a different NOS rectifier - a Brimar 5R4GY with cleaned pins. Put some deoxit on there as well and let dry before switching on amp. This seems to be making it better, but the slight static is not completely eliminated. 
  
 OK, I found that spinning the 1/4" jack into a different position seemed to kill the buzz. That indicated to me that the static is probably coming from this interface. Now I've given the deoxit another round and it the static is clse to being eliminated. Any further ideas? I have some D100 deoxit on order with the pin applicator and the bristly applicator brush coming tomorrow and will try that too. 
  
 I agree with the EMI possibility. I believe it is exasperated by two factors: (1) I am using long single ended cables - there must be close to 20 ft of headphone cable coming out of the amp. I do ocassionally notice the static change when I move the headphone cables. (2) My audio setup is about 6 feet from my wireless router. It's been this way for about 1+ year and never gave me any trouble with my speakers. However, headphone listening is apparently more sensitive. I will look into getting the router moved perhaps in the near future. 
  
 Regarding the Decware warranty transfer, do you know if it's possible to do even if the warranty wasn't transferred to the last person you bought it from? For example, I do not believe my seller had the warranty transferred to him, as he did not mention transferring it to me. Also, I do not really feel like shipping it anywhere. But I will if I can't fix this myself.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would call them, give them the unit's serial number and let them know the history as well as your current static challenges. If a unit has had a few owners I know I would send it in for my own piece of mind. The lifetime warranty, if available, is a useful tool as well. There are capacitors that will wear out at some point. Might as well see if you can get covered. No harm checking.


----------



## doukhobar

That's a really good idea. I was thinking that if I was going to go to the trouble of send it in, I would look into having the current stock caps upgraded to the Type II beeswax as well as adding a wood base. So I may put it off for a few weeks if it turns out this warranty transfer is possible so I can do the upgrades simultaneously as the check up. Any thoughts on the upgraded caps?
  
 Got a big hint that it is dirty jacks: after putting deoxit in both of them and lots of wiggling, one jack has the static reduced about 98%. The other jack has static redced about 90% with it suddenly popping up here and there. 
  
 How about hum? I also feel like I get a slight transformer hum at 60Hz inthe background, especially with the sensitive headphones. Should I lower the gain?
  
 I will say, listening to NPR on my Sansui TU-666 tuner is amazing. I am hearing the announcer turn her pages during announcements between pieces. 
  
 I am also curious if adding the low/high gain switch after purchase is an option. I think having a low gain option for my more sensitive hp would be nice w/o having to lower the gain knobs whenever I switch. Does this have any other advantages? I have a feeling some hp sound better with the low gain opposed to the high gain signal. Do you know anyone who has this option installed? I have 3 headphones (all dynamic) in my stable currently and will probably add a planar this year finally: AKG K501, AudioTechnica AD2000 and HD650. I am looking at adding a ZMF Omni...


----------



## longbowbbs

Any upgrades would be worth discussing with Steve. He will not try to sell you just for a quick buck. He really knows his amps and will give good council. I would recommend the Beeswax caps though. Sweet.
  
 I found the amp to be excellent with dynamic. The HD-800's and HD650's both were great with it. The Taboo MK III was built as a Planar amp and the original voicing was done with the LCD-2's. I heard the final prototype Taboo MK III with Steve's LCD-2's when I visited the factory. Ordered mine on the spot!
  
 As to any other option I will defer recommendation as I do not know what can be retrofitted. You will need to ask Steve. A gain option is always useful on an amp. More flexibility of optimally pairing with more headphones.


----------



## doukhobar

Thank you so much Longbowbbs!
  
 I sort of feel like I reviving a dead thread here, but that is how long it took me to buy my own Taboo III! So, I am happy. 
  
 Thanks for the encouragement about dynamic headphones. Before buying the Taboo I was considering a CSP for a headphone amp, as they were supposedly 'better' with dynamic phones, and I did not yet own any planar (actually I still don't, but am shopping now). So far I am glad with my decision, as the more I read Frank's initial review of the Taboo, he seemed to really enjoy it with the HD800, which is a HP I would like to own one day. 
  
 Regarding the static, I think I've crushed it. Just for others in the future in case you stumble across this thread, I had a feeling my static was being caused by the single ended headphone jacks, because the D5 deoxit sprayed in combination with feeding a 1/4" plug in and out repeatedly seemed to lessen it significantly. However, with my sensitive AD2000 phones, the static was still there, and would come back randomly fairly loudly. Pretty frustrating!
  
 My solution was to buy D100 (full strength) deoxit with a think application needle, here is the exact product: CAIG Laboratories D100L-25C D-Series Needle Dispenser/ 100% Solution
 http://www.markertek.com/product/d100l-25c/caig-laboratories-d100l-25c-d-series-needle-dispenser-100-solution-25-ml
  
 and dripped a few drops in the single ended vertical jacks then scrubbed the insides with this CAIG cleaning bristle brush:
 http://www.markertek.com/product/d100l-25c/caig-laboratories-d100l-25c-d-series-needle-dispenser-100-solution-25-ml
  
 The static seems to be gone. Thank you CAIG! Not only that, I think the overall sound quality has improved nicely. Even greater sense of clarity and dimensionalality. Note: I also cleaned all my tube pins with the D100 at the same time.


----------



## doukhobar

*Regarding planars, has anyone used the Ether or Ether C with this amp?*
*How about the ZMF Omni?*


----------



## whirlwind

I have a ZMF Omni and was considering this amp at one time also.
  
 Nice to see some activity here again.
  
 These are wonderful looking amps and a lifetime warranty is a real plus.


----------



## zach915m

whirlwind said:


> I have a ZMF Omni and was considering this amp at one time also.
> 
> Nice to see some activity here again.
> 
> These are wonderful looking amps and a lifetime warranty is a real plus.




My decware amps are the only amps I own that I know I will never sell. They are that good, and knowing Steve and the dedication he puts into his business makes me feel good about using them everything I switch on my taboo and csp. Only negative is I buy too many tubes for them knowing the amp isn't going anywhere.

Oh - yes the taboo is great with the Omni! Hearing the taboo once was enough to make me order one immediately.


----------



## longbowbbs

zach915m said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I have a ZMF Omni and was considering this amp at one time also.
> ...


 
 Now there is a first person endorsement!


----------



## doukhobar

Thanks all! Thanks Zach!
  
 I've actually been meaning to contact Zach directly about a discussion regarding his woods. I am torn between cherry and blackwood. There is also a beautiful Zebrawood available now on sale. I've read pretty much all the reviews available, and realize they are more similar than different. Hopefully I will get a chance to listen to an Omni at Urban Hifi in Maryland in the near future. 
  
 I listen to about 50% classical off NPR from my Sansui TU-666 tuner. I next most listen to my tube DAC playing 50's-60's jazz like Bill Evans, Charles Mingus, Ellington, Modern Jazz Quartet, Stan Getz and newer international jazz artists like Avishai Cohen on trumpet (not the bassist of same name). I am a former professional trumpet player so am pretty tuned towards jazz.
  
 I also enjoy listening to some heavier alternative rock/metal and EDM about 20% of the time when the wife and kids are asleep. Bands like Rage Against the Machine, Nine Inch Nails, DJ Tiesto, etc. so pretty diverse spectrum. 
  
 Any suggestions of one wood over the other Zach? Happy to take this discussion offline. 
  
 I also have a large collection of tubes for the Taboo, both rectifiers and signal tubes. This can be an expensive hobby, tube collecting! So I need to factor this into my decision for a wood. 
  
 Right now I am more consistently using a Brimar 5R4GY which is great with classical and jazz choice as it has a bit more body and midrange warmth. However with electronica and rock it can be too syrupy. I don't usually bother swapping the rectifier when I feel like changing genres late at night, but that would be ideal. I have quite a large genre of 5Y3 type tubes, including mesh plate from Neotron (France), several Bendix 6106 (5Y3 equivalent), many older U50 tubes (5Y3 equivalent) from likes of Marconi and Mullard. Also at my disposal are a Brimar 5U4G, Cossor 53KU and metal Phillips 5AR4, which I have yet to try any of these. My friend in Holland has two Phillips metal bases he wants to sell me for 150 euros each in NOS condition. 
  
 So I can obviously do alot of tuning. Have not even gotten into the E88CC collection on hand yet. I obviously care alot about being able to listen to what my tubes have to offer, and not get overwhelmed by bass, for example. Thoughts?


----------



## Argo Duck

There is a well done rectifier shootout in this or one of the other Decware threads, about 2-3 years ago. Nick Dangerous iirc. 

I am another unlikely to ever sell my Decwares. My CSP2+ runs from a yggdrasil dac and feeds my power-amp and speakers and my hd800 and lcd3 phones. The taboo mk ii drives my lcd2 phones in my office. Both are superb.


----------



## rnros

argo duck said:


> I am another unlikely to ever sell my Decwares. My CSP2+ runs from a yggdrasil dac and feeds my power-amp and speakers and my hd800 and lcd3 phones. The taboo mk ii drives my lcd2 phones in my office. Both are superb.


 
 Not sure which one of these to purchase. If the first one is good, I may end up owning both. 
 Currently using Oppo PM-1/PM-3 and HD600/650. Sony MDR Z1R arriving soon, and HD800S sometime after that.
 DAC is GungnirMB. (Currently using Schiit tube amps.)
 LOL, been going back and forth on these two for a while now. Any thoughts?


----------



## doukhobar

rnros said:


> Not sure which one of these to purchase. If the first one is good, I may end up owning both.
> Currently using Oppo PM-1/PM-3 and HD600/650. Sony MDR Z1R arriving soon, and HD800S sometime after that.
> DAC is GungnirMB. (Currently using Schiit tube amps.)
> LOL, been going back and forth on these two for a while now. Any thoughts?


 
 Hi @rnros - do you use speakers at all?
 I do not own the CSP, but I can tell you that the Taboo does a great job with my dynamic driver headphones including an HD650. Do you roll a lot of tubes, or plan on doing so? My research indicates that the Taboo is excellent with the HD800 as well.
 I would say, if you listen to speakers at all, the Taboo is without question the better choice. Also, if you do not listen to any speakers, and are not planning on rolling the 6922 tubes as much, the CSP may be a better choice (though I am not sure how CSP handles planar headphones).


----------



## rnros

doukhobar said:


> Hi @rnros - do you use speakers at all?
> I do not own the CSP, but I can tell you that the Taboo does a great job with my dynamic driver headphones including an HD650. Do you roll a lot of tubes, or plan on doing so? My research indicates that the Taboo is excellent with the HD800 as well.
> I would say, if you listen to speakers at all, the Taboo is without question the better choice. Also, if you do not listen to any speakers, and are not planning on rolling the 6922 tubes as much, the CSP may be a better choice (though I am not sure how CSP handles planar headphones).


 

 Thanks for the reply! Speaker upgrades will be next year's project, so yes for future intent.
 Do I roll tubes? I have far too many tubes to be considered sane.  So, yes on that also.
 Great. Appreciate the input.


----------



## doukhobar

Hi, well then if you plan on using speakers in the near future, especially before you plan on getting the second piece of gear, I would definitely select the Taboo over the CSP first. I've run the taboo both with and without a preamp and it sounds great both ways. Certainly no need for a preamp if you use efficient speakers. With the preamp, the sound is a bit weightier, but loses some delicacy. 
 Regarding tubes, I also like that you can roll the Taboo with changing out just 1 6922 in the front (which the CSP also has) but the CSP also has 6922 matching pairs. Those are harder to come by in certain tubes, so just a thought to keep in mind. I have no plans to roll the power tubes of the Taboo, as far as I can tell. Maybe one day try EL84 with certain rectifiers, but that's all.


----------



## chengdigger

I have a Taboo in the build queue and realized that this amp, with only one 6922, may be a great outlet to use some of my orphaned CCa tubes when it's mate in a matched pair failed. Has anyone been happy with CCa's in the Taboo?


----------



## doukhobar

Hello there, I have been getting great results using these Siemens and Telefunken E88CC tubes with rectifiers that provider a thicker sound, like the Brimar 5R4GY with classical music. What a great combo! When I use my 5AR4 rectifier, I prefer the Phillips *SQ* E88CC, since the Siemens sound is airy and combined with the 5AR4 is too technical for me, even for electronic music. On the other hand, I have a Valvo CCA yellow font that I find more neutral - not too warm, nor too technical.


----------



## chengdigger

Awesome, thanks. I was planning to roll some rectifiers as well.


----------



## doukhobar

Yes - the Taboo is incredibly transparent to tube rolling. You can completely modify the sound of this amp by swapping two tubes. So cool! It really is a great layout, and I like how you can play the rectifier off the signal tube with each other to get just the right combination. I have also tried Mullard U50 (5Y3GB) and Ken Rad 5Y3GT to very good effect. They all sound great and are less extreme than the Brimar 5R4GY or Phillips 5AR4. Does anyone have a favorite rectifier for this amp, or have they tried a GEC U52 or Cossor 53KU?


----------



## Muziqboy

I currently just use either a Western Electric 422A or GEC U52. The WE is the most neutral sounding of all tubes I've tried. The GEC is also neutral with a touch of warmness. I tend to listen to the GEC the most lately since it is IMO, the best rectifier tube when you listen to a lot of female vocals.
  
 Check this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread
  
 She did a very extensive comparison of rectifier tubes and how each of it sounds.
 I can confirm that she is very spot-on with the 2 tubes above that I am currently using.


----------



## doukhobar

Thank you @Muziqboy !
 Yes, I have referred to that very thread often, and it has lead me on my rectifier chase around the world, including my pursuit of several metal 5AR4 tubes which are pretty great for electronic music of all types. I have not yet splurged on the U52 GEC/Osram/Marconi due to their cost, and the WE 422A is extremely difficult to find in excellent shape for <$700 these days (that seems to be the asking price for a new one). It sounds like the GEC may be a nice tube to drop into this amp!
 Can I ask specifically, what was the texture of the GEC U52 like in the Taboo? How is it with classical and what headphones do you use? Thank you so much in advance!


----------



## Muziqboy

doukhobar said:


> Thank you @Muziqboy !
> Yes, I have referred to that very thread often, and it has lead me on my rectifier chase around the world, including my pursuit of several metal 5AR4 tubes which are pretty great for electronic music of all types. I have not yet splurged on the U52 GEC/Osram/Marconi due to their cost, and the WE 422A is extremely difficult to find in excellent shape for <$700 these days (that seems to be the asking price for a new one). It sounds like the GEC may be a nice tube to drop into this amp!
> Can I ask specifically, what was the texture of the GEC U52 like in the Taboo? How is it with classical and what headphones do you use? Thank you so much in advance!


 
  
 Don't listen much to classical. But like I said, lately I've been listening to a lot of female vocals and the GEC U52 excels here. Neutral but with warmness in the sound and also lots of air in the treble.
  
 Quoting Dubstep Girls review of this tube
 "Just like the WE422A, this tube can really bring you to tears on the right music, so much magic in the sound of legendary tubes."
  
 Listening to Sarah McLachlan's song Angel, the above quote is very true.
 I am listening to a modded HD800 and using Sonarworks to fix the issues with the HD800.


----------



## chengdigger

This has been a very illuminating discussion of rectifiers. That referenced thread is great. I will have to hunt down a U52. Does anyone have any recommended sources in the US?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey gang. Has anyone used any Stax headphones with this amp? Really curious to hear an opinion on it!


----------



## longbowbbs

The Taboo is not an energizer and cannot be used with electrostatic headphones.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I'm sorry I had a feeling someone was going to say that- I just meant in conjunction with the energizer. Didn't know how well the amp would power Stax or how the synergy is


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## longbowbbs

Gotcha....
  
 I have no idea. It is an excellent amp with Planar and Dynamic headphones.


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## BunnyNamedCraig

I'm really interested in Decware in general since I hear they're great with ZMF cans. I also wanted something that would do well with my Stax Mrk 3's.


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## longbowbbs

Zach uses Decware at the shows. Hopefully someone can chime in regarding electrostatics.


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## Argo Duck

bunnynamedfrank said:


> I'm sorry I had a feeling someone was going to say that- I just meant in conjunction with the energizer. Didn't know how well the amp would power Stax or how the synergy is




Is this what you mean? 30 seconds with _search this thread_


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## BunnyNamedCraig

Yeah I missed the boat on it. My apologies


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## Argo Duck

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Yeah I missed the boat on it. My apologies




No problem. _Search this thread_ isn't that good but always worth trying. Google often works better for head-fi posts!

Hope you found some useful information.


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## doukhobar

So, I'm assuming it's fairly common knowledge that the Taboo III is far, far superior out of the balanced output? All my listening from the single ended output could not hold a candle to the balanced out. Any balanced cable preferences? I was thinking of the Wywires Red.


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## neoluddite

Anyone here in San Fran Bay Area with a Zen Taboo that I might offer a bottle of wine to in exchange for letting me listen before purchase?
  
 Thanks


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## Tom Blake

I am considering the purchase of a used Taboo Mk III for my ZMF Atticus headphones but I would also like it to be able to power my HE-6's if possible. If I were to feed the Taboo Mk III from the SE outs of my iFi iCAN Pro used as a preamp would it have enough juice to drive the HE-6's to satisfying levels from the Taboo's XLR or speaker outputs? The iCAN Pro can definitely drive the HE-6 when used as a headphone amp in Med or HI gain.


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## doukhobar

Tom Blake said:


> I am considering the purchase of a used Taboo Mk III for my ZMF Atticus headphones but I would also like it to be able to power my HE-6's if possible. If I were to feed the Taboo Mk III from the SE outs of my iFi iCAN Pro used as a preamp would it have enough juice to drive the HE-6's to satisfying levels from the Taboo's XLR or speaker outputs? The iCAN Pro can definitely drive the HE-6 when used as a headphone amp in Med or HI gain.



Hi there, I currently listen to my HE-6 from the Taboo III and greatly enjoy this. However, I use a tube preamp before the Taboo, though this is not strictly necessary. The Taboo has a lower input sensitivity than other Decware amps, so likes to have a minimum of 2V coming into it, but certainly more voltage would be better based on my conversations with Steve. Unfortunately, I do not know much about the premap you have mentioned.


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## Tom Blake

doukhobar said:


> Hi there, I currently listen to my HE-6 from the Taboo III and greatly enjoy this. However, I use a tube preamp before the Taboo, though this is not strictly necessary. The Taboo has a lower input sensitivity than other Decware amps, so likes to have a minimum of 2V coming into it, but certainly more voltage would be better based on my conversations with Steve. Unfortunately, I do not know much about the premap you have mentioned.


Thanks for that info! The iCAN Pro is a very powerful headphone amp/linestage that has switchable solid state/tube input modes. It has 3 levels of output gain and can put out 11.5V into a 600 ohm single ended load. I would think it would help the Taboo Mk III drive the HE-6 from the XLR or speaker outs. I am mainly considering the Taboo for the Atticus which I know it drives superbly, but it would be nice if it could handle the HE-6 also. I have LCD-2's also which I believe the Taboo can drive really well. However, I was planning to sell those as I prefer the HE-6. Maybe the LCD-2's on the Taboo would change my mind


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## Argo Duck

The LCD2 (rev 1) on the older, mkII Taboo are indeed something; my preferred amp for this headphone. Moreover, the mkII indeed has lower input sensitivity and was frequently paired with the older CSP2+, a preamp which can put out 30V. (Personally, I find the Taboo more transparent without this preamp, and the LCD2 certainly doesn't need it!).

I understood the mkIII to be more sensitive though, this being part of Steve's design brief along with XLR out, a different input tube and a lucid mode re-designed for 'phones. Although I didn't make the jump to the mk III, it seems you get a lot for your money.

It's good to hear *doukhobar*'s report it drives the HE-6 well. *Frank I* - IIRC - had little luck with the _mark II_ and HE-6 but the mark III is a substantial re-design and thus a different beast...


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## Tom Blake

Thanks for the info! It looks like I am pulling the trigger on the Taboo Mk III. I will definitely try it on the HE-6's and report back. I can try it both directly from the output of my Gungnir Multibit DAC and also from the output of the iFi iCAN Pro preamp/headphone amp. 

When using the Taboo with a preamp have people found it is best to run the Taboo with its volume control wide open and control volume on the preamp? Or is the reverse better? The iCAN Pro is so powerful I would be nervous running it with its volume control wide open.

Also has anyone tried running the Woo WEE electrostatic energizer with the Taboo Mk III from its speaker outputs? The Woo requires 3 wpc into 8 ohms and it looks like the Taboo delivers 4.6. So on the surface it should work but I would be curious if anyone has tried it. I would use it with Stax SR-L500's.


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## Argo Duck

Concerning volume controls, one of the old hands over on the Decware forums used to "ride the gain", meaning he would use both volume controls. Configuring the preamp and Taboo differently gave him the flexibility to dial in a desired 'sound' more easily by adjusting the relative levels. Easier than rolling tubes I guess!

I have a vague recollection Steve Deckert may have described the idea in one of his papers a long time back.

I tried it and it works.


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## bearwarrior

Kind of a newbie to the tube world. 

I want to add some sound into my setup. I hope I can get some advice from this thread.

I am considering two options, CSP3 as a preamp, or Taboo mk3/mk4 as a tube amp.

If CSP3 as a preamp is enough to add the tube "magic", I will settle then. I wonder if Taboo can be a good choice for a separate tube amp.


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## chengdigger

Most of the cans in your list will actually sound great direct into the CSP3. I have a CSP3 and a Taboo MK4. My Eikons sound awesome in either. The same is true of the high-impedance German cans. The Mk4's new lucid mode is pretty fun though. I've never fed the CSP3 into the MK4 because I have balanced inputs on the Taboo.

PS - I also know Zack @ ZMF says he likes to demo the CSP3 in front of solid state amps to add the magic... I'd guess that's a good place to start.


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## doukhobar

You will need the extra power of the Taboo if you plan on using planar headphones like the LCD2 or Ether Flow, for example. If you just want to power dynamic headphones like the HD800, then the CSP3 is fine. Also, if you plan to use this for high efficiency speakers, you will need an amp, not a preamp. My Taboo does double duty with my Omega speakers and I love it.


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## chengdigger

I think @bearwarrior was looking to add tube magic to existing amps more than power planars...
That said the Taboo does make Omegas sing.



doukhobar said:


> You will need the extra power of the Taboo if you plan on using planar headphones like the LCD2 or Ether Flow, for example. If you just want to power dynamic headphones like the HD800, then the CSP3 is fine. Also, if you plan to use this for high efficiency speakers, you will need an amp, not a preamp. My Taboo does double duty with my Omega speakers and I love it.


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## bearwarrior

Thanks, guys! 

I hope someone has CSP3 available to sell. I do not want to wait for a couple of months when I order from Decware website.


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## doukhobar

Hi @chengdigger thanks for the comments. You are correct, though I'm never really sure what a poster like that actually intends when they talk about adding "extra sound" to their set up. Who knows what that means! So I tried to keep it general.

Anyway, how do you like the Taboo IV? I have lately been considering upgrading to the IV since it has the UFO transformers, and I would also get it with the upgraded caps, which mine does not have. Have you ever compared it head-to-head with a III?

@bearwarrior - you can find some neat gear for sale on the Decware classifieds forum. Good luck in your search!


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## chengdigger

@doukhobar  I've been happy w/ the MK4. I actually ordered a MK3 and the MK4 was announced shortly before my build started. I think i have something like SN3. I got the balanced inputs and upgraded caps. UFO transformers are very nice. My first experience w/ the UFOs was with my Torii.

I've never put them head to head. So I can't really say of the change is worth it. However other big difference is that the lucid mode on the mk4 is much improved and can work across a wide range of impedance (speakers through 600ohm beyers). The clutch part of the new systems, though, is the magic lucid dial. It lets you dial in the effect to the appropriate level for the source. So, if you think lucid is a worthwhile thing on the mk3, then you'd more than likely see a big difference.


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## doukhobar (Sep 8, 2017)

Balanced Inputs - nice. I actually just received a ZBIT but have not had the chance to test it out yet. I was thinking about getting balanced inputs installed on an amp, but after talking to Steve, it seems there was not a distinct advantage to the transforms being installed in the amp, vs. getting a ZBIT and being able to use balanced inputs for any amp or preamp - except one less cable. So hence that decision. But still - really nice amp!

That is cool you like the adjustable lucid mode. Thanks for the feedback on that. I am not sure how I feel about the Lucid mode switch on the III. I find myself setting it and forgetting it. It seems to make things a bit 'louder' here or there, not particularly mind blowing to me most of the time. I guess if it was one the front face I would play with it more. You like the separate volume controls? Don't mind having to adjust each one individually and/or simultaneously to get balanced volume increases? I'm glad you like the UFO transformers. Which Torii do you have - a IV? I've been offered a Torii Jr with UFO transforms. It is the latest build version offered to me for sub $2k. I am trying to device if I want that, or something else. I have Omega and Decware speakers, so it would probably be great. My Decware ERR speakers are only 92-93db and could use a little more power than my other amps provide (about 5-10W max). The other amp I am considering is the new Aficionado by EC. It appears to be about 2.5W similar to the Taboo in power and also having speaker jacks. It is a 2A3 amp. I like that is has both headphone and speaker taps for versatility. Only downside is it wouldn't do much for me ERR speakers, but would be great on the Omegas and also with headphones, which I rarely listen to anymore - about 1 hr per week. I usually listen to the ERR speakers because I don't have to be in the listening position to enjoy them as much as I ahve to be with the Omegas.

Penny for your thoughts? Thank you in advance!


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## chengdigger

@doukhobar  Yeah, the ZBIT is a good option. I guess you get more wire in the signal path but a lot more flexibility and adjustment. My taboo is at my desk and directly connected to a balanced DAC. 

It's really hard to explain the adjustable lucid mode. It's almost like a focus knob. I have a lytro light field camera that lets you focus the image after the picture is taken. I think this is best thing to compare lucid to. 

I actually have a Torii Jr w/ the UFOs and kicked up caps. It's sick. It replaced a home-built 300B amp. I've got it hooked up to a pair of Zu's. I will say that the CSP3 really helps the Torii Jr. Getting that input voltage dialed in makes all the difference. 

Re: the dual volume controls --  I was already used to it w/ the Torii, but I appreciate the dual controls on the Taboo. It's especially noticeable w/ headphones. You can make microadjustments. I have omegas connected to the taboo at my desk. it's nice being able to 'balance' the levels because the speakers are positioned asymmetrically. The one thing I continue to wish for on the Taboo is a speaker tap bypass switch. I know it adds an element to the signal path, but I tend to use heavy spade connectors and it's a PITA to connect/remove the speaker cables. I finally gave up and put some banana plugs on the amp end of the cable, but it's my one gripe.


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## grizzlybeast

http://earphiles.org/2017/09/decware-taboo-mkiv-review/


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## bearwarrior

grizzlybeast said:


> http://earphiles.org/2017/09/decware-taboo-mkiv-review/



Great review! (The conclusion might be missed.)

I wonder if you plan to do a review of Decware CSP3. I will be really interested.


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## Cho Worsh (Sep 14, 2022)

Edited: The MK III has a special something that I find addictive. I agree with those in the Decware forum who recommend the Mullard CV593.


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## GU1DO (Apr 5, 2020)

Hi ,,
guys anybody using this amp (mk4) with HD800S or Audio Technica ADX5000 which both has high impedance 300/400 ?


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## fortunate son (Jul 27, 2022)

GU1DO said:


> Hi ,,
> guys anybody using this amp (mk4) with HD800S or Audio Technica ADX5000 which both has high impedance 300/400 ?


High impedance headphones are no problem. Speaking of finicky headphones, turn the volume up to the max and listen to the HE6SE. Bliss!


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## longbowbbs

The HD800’s are great with the Taboo Mk III. The amp was voiced with the Audeze LCD-2’s.


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## headband

Is there a decware taboo mk iv thread? trying to see if anyone pairs the lcd-x with it


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## David222

headband said:


> Is there a decware taboo mk iv thread? trying to see if anyone pairs the lcd-x with it



Hello friend....I don't believe so. Unfortunately, the decware thread is not super active. I keep an eye on this thread, as I've been considering one myself. 

If not mistaken, the LCD-X is not particularly hard to drive. 

Hopefully one of our fellow head-fiers can provide you some more specific info.


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## ardbeg1975

Hello, new to this thread. I just ordered a Taboo so my actual participation is likely ~14 months from now. That said, can anyone comment on compatibility of 6SN7/6N8S input tube via pin adapter? I have some old Foton and MELZ tubes I’ve been holding onto and would like to try out in future. Thank you.


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## DesignTaylor

ardbeg1975 said:


> can anyone comment on compatibility of 6SN7/6N8S input tube via pin adapter?


Yup, works great. My favorite input tube for the Taboo is a Tung Sol 6SN7GT.


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## ardbeg1975

Quick tube compatibility question in Taboo Mk IV. Will 6n14p-k work in lieu of EL84? Thank you.


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## DesignTaylor

ardbeg1975 said:


> Quick tube compatibility question in Taboo Mk IV. Will 6n14p-k work in lieu of EL84? Thank you.


I think those are EL83 equivalents not EL84. If you are looking for alternatives from the set Steve ships with the Taboo there are a handful of great options. I'm rather partial to the 6P15P-EV from the  REFLECTOR factory.


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