# Speakers - any experience of B&W, Dynaudio or Audiovector, Neat?



## alanbeeb

I know its an odd thing to talk about on a headphones forum but thought I'd try....
   
  I am mainly a speaker listener. Although I love headphones I generally only use them when music will disturb other people late at night.  SO most of my listening is done on speakers.  Until a couple of weeks ago when I scored the greatest own goal in the entire history of hifi box-swapping by deciding that my beloved big Tannoy D700s could be replaced by a pair of refurbished Quad ESL 57s.
   
  To cut a long story short, they just don't hack it.  Although they are hair-raisingly gorgeous and "real" with solo accoustic and very small scale music, they are awful with anything big or complex. And unfortunately big orchestral and rock are my mainstays.  They just don't do dynamics.
   
  So now on the hunt for speakers with the capability to play big music.  Amps will be as per my sig.... Krell KSA-100s or Lyngdorf SDA2175.    SO need plenty of dynamics, bass impact but not ponderous.  Positioning is not a problem, my room can cope with speakers up to about a metre from the walls althoughs its only 5.5 x 4.2m.
   
  As I never buy big things new (why pay the depreciation?) I will be looking for 2nd hand or ex-demo at a good price.  I have seen several things advertised that could be interesting....  B&W Nautilus 803s, Dynaudio Contour 3.4s, Audiovector S3 avantgarde, Neat Momentum 4i. 
   
  Anyone got a view on the relative strengths and weaknesses of these speakers or any other suggestions? Thanks.


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## koven

Haven't heard Audiovector or Neat but I used to own B&W Nautilus 805's and now have a pair of Dynaudio Focus 140's. The Dynaudio's are much more dynamic.


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## mulveling

Wait, why not stick with the D700s? They'll be hard to match for coherence and dynamics, especially in that price range. Are you still set on downsizing? To improve on bass impact and dynamics over what you've already got will require even bigger speakers, or a bigger amp on the D700.


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## DaveBSC

Quads just aren't rock and roll speakers. That doesn't necessarily mean you need to give up on panels altogether though. Maybe consider a pair of Maggies? The big Soundlab stats can also get loud, but even on the used market the good ones are on the pricey side.
   
  The Dynaudio Confidence C4s blew me away when I auditioned them several years ago, and if the Contour range is anywhere close to the performance of the Confidence series, they could be very good indeed. B&Ws have never been my favorites, they are too forward overall and I think their treble is unrefined considering the price tag. If you'd like to hear what some other designers can do with Dynaudio drivers, maybe check out Egglestonworks, and Silverline.


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## plantsman

From this side of the Atlantic I'm not sure how much help I can offer as I really don't know the used market in Scotland or England but I'm not shy about voicing my opinions.  Like DaveBSC above I don't care much for the N series B&W speakers. At least in the USA there are, IMO, far better speakers for the money.  I have not heard the Neats, they are very rare in North America, but I've heard positive comments about the Ultimatum series.  The Dynaudios I have heard haven't done much for me but they produce so many models I've only heard a tiny fraction.  What about Wilson-Benesch or the Swiss Piega speakers?  ATC or PMC might also be worth a listen.  I'm trying to confine myself to U.K. or at least EU produced speakers.  There are many wonderful American built speakers: Sound Labs, Green Mountain Audio, Avalon Acoustics, Wilson Audio, Magnepan, etc. but I imagine they are rare, very expensive or both in your country.


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## GuyDebord

I have hear them all except the audiovector's, one of my favorite dealers carries these three brands and I am invited often to informal auditions. I heard the three powered by an accuphase E-450 integrated and they were using a slimdevices transporter as source. The only one that left a very positive impression were the Neat's. followed by the Dynaudio. The B&W suck for the price (IMO), I never really liked B&W anyhow. 
  For a full range 3k speaker, I think the Neat's are hard to beat, but I would also look at the Dali's and the Paradigm's.


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## alanbeeb

Thanks for comments guys.... currently got a loaner pair of Dynaudio Contour s3.4 and quite enjoying them but not sure they are doing enough to justify the price.  I've had a pair of Dali Helicon 400s in the past and they were lovely.... if a used pair came up at a good price I could be tempted back to them.
   
  Interesting that I'm hearing consistent tales of underwhelment (is that a word?) with B&W.  Not just here but elsewhere too - even from a B&W dealer.
   
  Of the US brands mentioned, yes you are right I'm afraid, almost no presence in UK market apart from a few Wilsons at horrific prices.  US/Canada speaker brands that have got some presence here are Reference 3a (maybe a good one for the tubeheads?), Totem and Shahinian.... could be tempted by Shahinian just to hear how different they are with the semi-omni design.   Martin Logan are not too uncommon here but in demos I've never been convinced by trying to marry a panel with a woofer, just too much disconnect in my ears.


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## zeroeight

My friend has a pair of B&W 803s and I have auditioned the Dynaudio S3.4.  In my opinion, there is no comparison, the Dynaudios sound so much more balanced and coherent - just seemless from top to bottom.  The B&Ws sound good but that tweeter can get a little tiring - too much shimmy.
   
  I ended up with a pair of Confidence C1s - but not sure these are really a rock speaker.  Plus you will need a big amp with lots of current to drive these babies to their full potential.
   
  You should also try some Jamo top of the line speaks, not sure of the model number.  These really rock the bass.


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## freckling

I'll second GuyDeBord's post and add Revel and JM Labs to the good ole list.


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## alanbeeb

Quote: 





mulveling said:


> Wait, why not stick with the D700s? They'll be hard to match for coherence and dynamics, especially in that price range. Are you still set on downsizing? To improve on bass impact and dynamics over what you've already got will require even bigger speakers, or a bigger amp on the D700.


 


 Yes... hmm.... well.... unfortunately in my sheer lunatic idiocy I sold the Tannoys.  Where's the emoticon for self-destruct?
   
  Yes, the Tannoys pretty much covered the bases but the curiosity for the 'statics got the better of me. Live'n'learn.


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## DaveBSC

Maybe check out Monitor Audio. The Gold Reference series is frequently available in the US for quite reasonable prices on the used market. Their new top Platinum range is supposed to be superb, but I don't know what prices or used availability is on those.


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## Skylab

For the ten year period between 1990 and 2000, I owned 5 different pairs of speakers - roughly changing every 2 years.
   
  In 2000 I bought a pair of B&W Nautilus 800's - and I have never, ever wanted to buy a new pair of speakers since.  Now 10 years on, I still love listening to them, and have still no desire to change them.  I could afford to it I wanted to - but I don't.  I am more worried I would like something else less than ever feeling like I could be getting something more.


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## alanbeeb

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In 2000 I bought a pair of B&W Nautilus 800's - and I have never, ever wanted to buy a new pair of speakers since.


 


 What amp are you using to drive them?  I'd be surprised if that hasn't changed in same timeframe!


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## Skylab

It sure did at first! Went from a VanAlstine Omega III 440hc to a pair of Audio Research monoblocks to the Sunfire Signature II, which has been here about 7 years now. Great match for the big B+W's, which ned a LOT of power. 200 wpc was not even close to enough.


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## Frank I

Have you ever heard the Cat Signature 100W monoblocks. My brother bought thos to drive a pair of the Genesis 11, Those were the best tube amps I ever heard. Powerful 100W triode with a Cat SL1 preamp and he sold them for Mark  Levinson 33 mono. They were much better with the tube setup. The longest setup I had was the Revel F30 with the CJ Premier 11a and Cat Sl1 MK11 with a Classe CDP.5 12 years and mine with the Revel speakers. Now I am a Maggie guy  Now my brother just got the YGA Acoustic speakers that I have not heard yet.


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## Skylab

Nope - I love tubes, but I will stick to a tube preamp and SS power amp in my rig - much better overall ststem design in my particular case.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nope - I love tubes, but I will stick to a tube preamp and SS power amp in my rig - much better overall ststem design in my particular case.


 

 You may like the CAT preamp with the phonostage since you listen to vinyl. Ken makes great preamps be it very expensive now but can be had for a reasonable price on the used market. No remote as Stevens believes they degrade the sound. A great solid state I heard was the Spectral solid state amps. Heard those with the Revel Salon, very impressive.


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## alanbeeb

Anyone heard Nola Vipers?  Sealed box bass unit and open baffle section for mid and treble..... could be interesting.... any experiences?


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## Bemopti123

I own a pair of Neat Motive 3s.   They are the smallest ones, monitor types with 5 1/2" woofers and an inverted JMLabs tweeter.  This monitors I had them imported as a demo from Spain couple of years ago.  They are incredibly dynamic, very robust sounding for the size and beat many other larger monitors with larger woofers in the sound and purity department.  I ran them with Naim Naits, as well as a large McCormack DNA-225 200+ watts/channel.  They sound excellent.  
   
  Nevertheless, my latest monitor type of speaker is a Brines Acoustics BR-20s with 8" fullrange Fostex high efficiency driver matted with a pair of the most affordable bullet Fostex Alnico tweeters, the two drivers have 1 pair of L-pads, one to control the low frequency/qts and another to increase/decrease the output of the tweeters.  This monitor is rather large, it is forceful and the bass is incredible....Mid 30s.  The beauty about this monitor is that it can take both SET type of amplifiers as well as large SS monsters well.


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## GuyDebord

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nope - I love tubes, but I will stick to a tube preamp and SS power amp in my rig - much better overall ststem design in my particular case.


 

 And you would need a super powerful tube amp to drive those B&W's properly.... with those speakers SS makes more sense....


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## ast

I own a pair of *Dynaudio *Contours and love them.  They have transparency, neutrality, clean and controlled bass, detailed yet not harsh.


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## mervinteo

Personally i heard the B&W 803 and i compared to Quad 12L2 but in the end i bought the Quad. B&W 803 is a waste of money even for a second hand.it is more of a home theater speaker and not even worth paying for it too. I always like the Dynaudio but if you have the budget, you should go for it. Quad 12L2 will be best buy for audiophile fanatics like me. Bright speakers with good treble, very clear mids, especially if your play Camomile, Josh Groban, personal favorite Aaron neville and Carpenters. Quad 12L2 is half the price of B&W 803 if you buy it new.

 There is also another brand i imported from HongKong. Not sure if they would sell just the front speakers, as they package it with their hometheater systems 7.1 channels. I got the entire set for about US$1.7k for the entire 7.1 speakers with active subwoofer. The model is Force. You can check with them at Allensmithaudio.com. The front speakers sounded better than my Quad12L2 without any burn-in. I was amaze at the sound quality, clarity, wideness and soundstage. Though it is an unknown brand but the company is from Australia and they custom made their own drivers. Probably if you talked to them. They may sell it to you for 600-700 with shipping included.


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## mervinteo

Sorry, i thought it was the B&w 600. Yup the B&W 803 is awesome.


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## alanbeeb

oh well...  I got a demo of Active ATC SCM50 yesterday.   And have since been staring at bank accounts and stuff I've got to sell to see of there is any way I can afford them....


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## Frihed89

I know Audio Vector as i am in DK.  They are good at redproducing dynamic swings (fast), and they are "forward", perhaps also tilted up a bit to accentuate the trebble, but the bass reproduction on their larger speakers is (used to be) pretty good.  I would characterize them as being like Naim with an attitude.   I don't keep up with them.  I owned a pair of used 2-ways 4-5 years ago and my step son has their latest monitors, but I am not sure how far up the scale.  They are sold widely in DK and many people own them.


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## Mammut

Hi Frihed89
   
  lol - I love you signature  (Living in Søborg my self.)
  "Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj Riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose"
   
  Back on topic. The Audio Vector speakers comes in modules, so they can be upgraded later if needed.
  They were are good speakers, but I ended up with Zu Druid instead.


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## Krav

In my humble opinion, none of the speakers that require external amp are worth buying these days. Consider active speakers, like the ones here: http://www.adam-audio.com/en/home-audio/products.
   
  If you don't care about the cosmetics, you can buy less expensive professional monitor versions of essentially same hardware: http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products.
   
  Look at their specs in the user manuals you can download from the site. Frequency response curve and THD are in entirely different league compared to the speakers with passive crossovers at a similar price point. And their multiple transducers are perfectly phase-aligned. 
    
  Adam has competitors who also produce excellent active monitors. So I'm not promoting Adams, I'm simply pointing out that the professional musicians and sound engineers moved on from the passive crossovers to active monitors, and so should we.
   
  I use Adam-A7s in combination with a Velodyne 18" sub and this combo utterly demolishes all speakers with passive crossovers I ever heard in my life, irregardless of price, and I heard quite a few. My previous setup used Maggies.
   
  The A7 is a relatively low end in Adam's lineup. With unlimited budget, I'd buy something like this: http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/s7a-mk2/description, which is used as "the" main reference monitor in the major recording studios worldwide.


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## lxxsumi

hmm~~Great match for the big B+W's, which ned a LOT of power. 200 wpc was not even close to enough.




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## Fryden

I have read the correspondance with interest, and you may have chosen new speakers long time ago already. I write you, because in my point of wiew the High End Audiovector speakers having ribbon tweeter is awesome precise, extremely fast and the dynamics is great. The bass is never unprecise, but bass fanatics might need some more, but quite frankly, my own play at 29 hz and they delivers lots of low frequent sound. My own speakers are Audiovector Mi3 Avantgarde Arrete, that I have bought used. Yoy may compare these speakers with Dynaudio Contour 3.4s that is slightly more precise, but they cost a lot more, even used.
  The dynamics at the Audiovector speakers are splendid and I would not consider to use other speakers. I have Arcam FMJ gear to play with and listens to a wide sortiment of music and films at this gear.


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## boclcown

I completely disagree about Actives being better than passives. Went from $1.2k Mackie Hr824 (and previously Mackie MR8s to Adam A5s) to $600 B&W 685s and the B&W blew the mackies out of the park in terms of their overall presentation. Imaging and soundstaging really out did any active speaker I have ever heard. Detail is probably better, but I'm not in a position to compare because I don't have the Mackie's with me anymore.
   
  A decent amp, e.g. Onkyo A-9555, can be had for under $400 used, so you really don't save any money with Actives.


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## Omega17TheTrue

Interesing i always thought active was way better as many people claim ... no i'm hesitating to buy DIY speaker instead of pro active one... the more you read the more you are lost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The speakers were in the same room ?
  
  Quote: 





boclcown said:


> I completely disagree about Actives being better than passives. Went from $1.2k Mackie Hr824 (and previously Mackie MR8s to Adam A5s) to $600 B&W 685s and the B&W blew the mackies out of the park in terms of their overall presentation. Imaging and soundstaging really out did any active speaker I have ever heard. Detail is probably better, but I'm not in a position to compare because I don't have the Mackie's with me anymore.
> 
> A decent amp, e.g. Onkyo A-9555, can be had for under $400 used, so you really don't save any money with Actives.


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## Rayzilla

Frihed89 said:


> I know Audio Vector as i am in DK.  They are good at redproducing dynamic swings (fast), and they are "forward", perhaps also tilted up a bit to accentuate the trebble, but the bass reproduction on their larger speakers is (used to be) pretty good.  I would characterize them as being like Naim with an attitude.   I don't keep up with them.  I owned a pair of used 2-ways 4-5 years ago and my step son has their latest monitors, but I am not sure how far up the scale.  They are sold widely in DK and many people own them.


I'm raising an old thread because I'm considering a used pair of Audiovector S3 with the to upgrade module, Avantgarde.

Are there any updated experiences with Audiovector speakers?


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## DamageInc77 (Dec 21, 2019)

I just bought Audiovector SR3 Signature speakers a few days ago. I demoed the SR3 Super and liked it, but I was given a great offer on the Signature and went for that instead. Also purchased a subwoofer, which I think is a must for these speakers unless you live in a smaller apartment. I do like their upgrade options, even though I don't think I will ever do it, it's nice to know that it can be done.

I've only been listening to them for two days, but I am really enjoying them a lot. Sound signature is a little bright, but I don't mind that. Kinda like my TH900's.


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