# Questyle CMA800 Current Mode amp



## Haidar

http://www.questyleaudio.com/en/content/?73.html
   
   
  Discuss...


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## BournePerfect

Price?
   
  -Daniel


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## Haidar

on eBay its $1,999
   
  I wonder how their design differs from the Bakoon HPA-21 which is also a "current amp".
  see http://www.bakoonproducts.com/technology/satri-circuit/


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## Currawong

The SATRI circuit is a current gain stage. What is being talked about with these headphone amps is the output to the headphones themselves being in the current domain. What Bakoon, Krell, Audio-gd and others do in most amps is have the amplification, and signal transmission between components entirely in the current domain instead of the voltage domain until the last stage before the headphones or speakers where a I/V converter is used. As far as I know, current-output headphone amps can only be used with headphones that have a completely flat impedance curve, such as orthos.


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## songmic

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The SATRI circuit is a current gain stage. What is being talked about with these headphone amps is the output to the headphones themselves being in the current domain. What Bakoon, Krell, Audio-gd and others do in most amps is have the amplification, and signal transmission between components entirely in the current domain instead of the voltage domain until the last stage before the headphones or speakers where a I/V converter is used. As far as I know, current-output headphone amps can only be used with headphones that have a completely flat impedance curve, such as orthos.


 
   
  The HD800 has a very fluctuating impedance curve, but the HPA-21 was still the best solid-state amp I've heard with it. While the pairing with LCD-3 was very good too, I felt the HPA-21 performed better with HD800.


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## jacal01

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The SATRI circuit is a current gain stage. What is being talked about with these headphone amps is the output to the headphones themselves being in the current domain. What Bakoon, Krell, Audio-gd and others do in most amps is have the amplification, and signal transmission between components entirely in the current domain instead of the voltage domain until the last stage before the headphones or speakers where a I/V converter is used. As far as I know, current-output headphone amps can only be used with headphones that have a completely flat impedance curve, such as orthos.


 
   
  According to the Questyle website product discussion, the amplification is done in the current domain, via their "Input Buffer, Current Transmitter, Trans-impedance Amplifier and Output Buffer" in a "TransLinear(TL) loop circuit".
   
  My HPA-21 seems to handle both my TH900 and LCD-2 with almost equal aplomb.


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## project86

I've got one of these on the way right now. I'll be covering it at InnerFidelity, and will definitely get to the bottom of this whole "current mode" business. Language barriers will slow me down but I can usually get past that given enough patience (on their end and mine). 

I think the external design is very reminiscent of the Luxman P200. Not calling it a copy at all, just a similar visual theme.


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## jacal01

I thought about getting one, but the marketing fellow there seems to think that the CMA800 is only optimized towards the HD800 and similar high impedance headphones.  Kept trying to steer me to the cheaper CMA600 model with the appropriate output module for my lower impedance HP suite (T5p, TH900, LCD-2).  So I'm not sure how flexible the CMA800 is at this point...
   
  Trying to talk him into a factory mod (1 low gain HP outlet + higher gain (e.g. HD800) HP outlet), assuming that they're equivalent now.


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## project86

Quote: 





jacal01 said:


> I thought about getting one, but the marketing fellow there seems to think that the CMA800 is only optimized towards the HD800 and similar high impedance headphones.  Kept trying to steer me to the cheaper CMA600 model with the appropriate output module for my lower impedance HP suite (T5p, TH900, LCD-2).  So I'm not sure how flexible the CMA800 is at this point...
> 
> Trying to talk him into a factory mod (1 low gain HP outlet + higher gain (e.g. HD800) HP outlet), assuming that they're equivalent now.


 
   
  Thanks for the info. So far they mentioned to me the special synergy with HD800, but also recommend it for a wide variety of different cans. So perhaps a disconnect between marketing and engineering. We'll see.


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## jacal01

I may just pop for one, anyway.  Questyle offered me attractive pricing as factory direct.
   
  However, what time frame will you be reviewing the CMA800?  I assume that you'll also be reviewing it with some low impedance cans.
   
  One thing is confusing, in that I was under the impression as a current driven HP output (not gain), that impedance matching was of little, or not as much, concern.  Do you think that they might have converted it to a voltage controlled output at the end, for whatever reason?  Is there any way you can get an answer to that via your contact?


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## project86

Quote: 





jacal01 said:


> I may just pop for one, anyway.  Questyle offered me attractive pricing as factory direct.
> 
> However, what time frame will you be reviewing the CMA800?  I assume that you'll also be reviewing it with some low impedance cans.


 
   
  Looks like it initially listed at $2K but now I see it at $1499 with free shipping from a reputable seller. So that's a definite improvement. Don't care how good it is, cheaper is always appreciated.
   
  I'll be reviewing it with lots of headphones - custom IEMs, LCD-2, HE-500, Thunderpants, HD800, and a bunch more. Will definitely investigate the low impedance/high impedance results. But it will be a few months before I have a final review - I don't even have the thing here yet to start listening.


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## jacal01

That's their retail price.  A better deal can be had because of a lack of US distributor/dealer. 
   
  Sooo..., you managed to talk me into it, you silver tongued devil, you. Several months wait is like anathema to an instant gratification sort like myself.   Who _knows_ where or what I'll be in a few months.  Altho I believe I'll hold off on any personal review of my own until after your Inner Fidelity report.  Don't want to prejudice you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Besides, I learned my lesson from the high bias Class A mafia types that squatted on the HPA-21 thread and poopooed everything non bona fide.


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## jacal01

songmic said:


> The HD800 has a very fluctuating impedance curve, but the HPA-21 was still the best solid-state amp I've heard with it. While the pairing with LCD-3 was very good too, I felt the HPA-21 performed better with HD800.


 
  
 I see what you mean about the HD800s and the HPA-21...


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## PETERCALV

Has anyone tried this amplifier yet? I have just purchased one, as I wanted to try a current gain amplifier, but couldn't afford the Bakoon. Anyway, it arrived yesterday and is as dead as a dodo.  I bought it from the Ebay site listed above.
  
 I have a bad feeling I now have a long uphill battle....


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## project86

Myself and at least one other headfier have the CMA800, for a few weeks now. Sorry to hear about your troubles - I thought the packaging was quite good, better than most, but maybe still not enough in your case. The good news - the eBay seller linked above, and Questyle themselves, both seem very responsive from my interactions. I think you should be in good shape.


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## PETERCALV

I will let you know how I get on with this. Any initial thoughts on the sound of a working model?


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## jacal01

I'm surprised as well.  My impressions of the Questyle amp is as a quality product.  And because of their current marketing ambitions, I don't think that you'll lack for factory support.
  
 My inital impression is of remarkable clarity and detail, in line with their very low distortion spec. Probably the brightest of my current loop amplifiers, but maybe also the most expansive for note spacing and definition.  Engaging, nonetheless.  I don't think that you'll be disappointed, altho the CMA800 may not be good synergy with low impedance headphones.
  
 Which Questyle model did you buy?  What headphones are you planning to use with it?


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## PETERCALV

jacal01 said:


> I'm surprised as well.  My impressions of the Questyle amp is as a quality product.  And because of their current marketing ambitions, I don't think that you'll lack for factory support.
> 
> My inital impression is of remarkable clarity and detail, in line with their very low distortion spec. Probably the brightest of my current loop amplifiers, but maybe also the most expansive for note spacing and definition.  Engaging, nonetheless.  I don't think that you'll be disappointed, altho the CMA800 may not be good synergy with low impedance headphones.
> 
> Which Questyle model did you buy?  What headphones are you planning to use with it?


 
 I bought the CMA800. I will be using my HD800 headphones with it. Up to now, Questyle have been helpful. I have identified both internal fuses are blown. I checked the power rating was to the right setting before switching it on, so I know it wasn't that. I am waiting for them to get back to me regarding my suggestion to replace them.
  
 I will keep you posted....


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## jacal01

Well., the CMA800 and HD 800 is the combo that they designed the amp to.  Maybe the fuses were preblown by the ebay seller...  Is it supposed to be a brand new still sealed package amp direct from the factory?  If so, sounds like a bad short, like cut wire insulation to chassis.  They'll fix it if so, I'm sure.  Questyle wants good product perception at this stage.


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## PETERCALV

jacal01 said:


> Well., the CMA800 and HD 800 is the combo that they designed the amp to.  Maybe the fuses were preblown by the ebay seller...  Is it supposed to be a brand new still sealed package amp direct from the factory?  If so, sounds like a bad short, like cut wire insulation to chassis.  They'll fix it if so, I'm sure.  Questyle wants good product perception at this stage.


 
  
 The Ebay seller claims it is brand new. According to Alden Zhao (Sales and Service Manager at Questyle), there should have been an AP graph with the unit showing it running at 220 volts for 48 hours. However, there was no graph or warranty card. I have to return the unit to them after their upcoming Public Holiday. They will then send me a replacement unit, after their next production run at the end of this month.
  
 I will give an update when things start to move.


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## zenpunk

Curious about that one. Wonder how good it would be with HE-6?


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## project86

petercalv said:


> The Ebay seller claims it is brand new. According to Alden Zhao (Sales and Service Manager at Questyle), there should have been an AP graph with the unit showing it running at 220 volts for 48 hours. However, there was no graph or warranty card. I have to return the unit to them after their upcoming Public Holiday. They will then send me a replacement unit, after their next production run at the end of this month.
> 
> I will give an update when things start to move.


 
  
 Well, not the start you wanted I'm sure, but should be straightened out easily enough. If it makes you feel any better, it really is worth the trouble. Very VERY impressive with HD800.
  


zenpunk said:


> Curious about that one. Wonder how good it would be with HE-6?


 
  
 Not so sure it would be an ideal pair. I don't have HE-6 but I'll test with HE-500, Thunderpants, and LCD-2 to see how it does with low impedance planars.


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## jacal01

petercalv said:


> The Ebay seller claims it is brand new. According to Alden Zhao (Sales and Service Manager at Questyle), there should have been an AP graph with the unit showing it running at 220 volts for 48 hours. However, there was no graph or warranty card. I have to return the unit to them after their upcoming Public Holiday. They will then send me a replacement unit, after their next production run at the end of this month.
> 
> I will give an update when things start to move.


 
  
 Don't know about a warranty card; you're actually lucky to find some instructions in English 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but yes, there should have been an AP graph included.  I suspect some external tampering.  Probably sold you a demo unit he tried out before reselling.  Not to worry, the factory direct replacement will be worth it.


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## project86

Maybe customs had something to do with it? I have experience with them losing documentation or even cables that I know for a fact had been in the box when it was sent.


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## PETERCALV

project86 said:


> Maybe customs had something to do with it? I have experience with them losing documentation or even cables that I know for a fact had been in the box when it was sent.


 
 This could be the case. What is very odd, I thought I would recheck everything, and the unit was still dead. I took both internal fuses out again and rechecked them and they were blown. However, when I put a circuit tester across the fuse holders (with no fuses in) it displayed a complete circuit. I suspect either that is the problem with my amp, or the fuses are there for display only!
  
 The sticking point with returning the amp is now shipping, as they want me to pay all shipping costs, which would work out at nearly £300 both ways.


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## jacal01

Normal dealer warranty policy is for you to pay for shipping to, and they're supposed to pay for for return shipping in kind. That is, if you air freight it to them, they're obligated to air freight it back.

I think it's on the ebay seller, not Questyle, unless the seller compensates them.

If nothing else, since you bought a nonworking product off of ebay, you should be able to return it for refund within so many days (30?) per their guarantee. Then turn around and buy it directly from Alden. You'll probably need to do a bank wire transfer for payment.


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## PETERCALV

jacal01 said:


> Normal dealer warranty policy is for you to pay for shipping to, and they're supposed to pay for for return shipping in kind. That is, if you air freight it to them, they're obligated to air freight it back.
> 
> I think it's on the ebay seller, not Questyle, unless the seller compensates them.
> 
> If nothing else, since you bought a nonworking product off of ebay, you should be able to return it for refund within so many days (30?) per their guarantee. Then turn around and buy it directly from Alden. You'll probably need to do a bank wire transfer for payment.


 
  
 The Ebay seller has agreed to pick up shipping charges both ways, so I will send it back in the next couple of days. I would like to thank you and jackal01 for keeping me thinking positive about all of this.
  
 When the replacement arrives, I will give you my thoughts on its sound within the rest of my system.


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## jacal01

Yes, and project86 is a good guy, to boot.
  
 And that's jacal (pronounced häkäl), not jackel.  Big difference, and a nice little regional history lesson in its own right.


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## project86

jacal01 said:


> Yes, and project86 is a good guy, to boot.


 
  
 Meh, I find him pretentious and long winded.


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## jacal01

Hah!  You're the one who bailed out on the long winded PMs first...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh wait.  Were you talking about me?  I thought PETERCALV was the one who got us confused.


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## project86

jacal01 said:


> Hah!  You're the one who bailed out on the long winded PMs first...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't bail, I'm still writing it.... have a Word document saved. 
  
 Kidding.


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## jacal01

Oh I know.  You're just titling it your review.
  
 Like uncredited collaboration.
  
 And you_ know _I'm just kidding.


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## PETERCALV

jacal01 said:


> Hah!  You're the one who bailed out on the long winded PMs first...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm good at confusing people, it's what I do for a living. Love the accommodation, by the way...


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## Currawong

project86 said:


> jacal01 said:
> 
> 
> > Hah!  You're the one who bailed out on the long winded PMs first...
> ...


 
  
 Slightly OT, but I use Evernote because I have two computers and an iPad I can write on. Easier to keep track of it all that way.


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## project86

currawong said:


> Slightly OT, but I use Evernote because I have two computers and an iPad I can write on. Easier to keep track of it all that way.


 
  
 I recently checked Evernote out - very impressive, full featured software, but I just didn't use it much. I actually prefer (and I realize how dumb this sounds) to write most stuff in gmail. It saves everything for me on the fly, and is easily accessed from any of my devices without needing to install an app. Chrome has built-in spell check so I'm really not missing much. I'll bust out Word once in a while for some more advanced formatting but generally it's gmail 99% of the time. Goofy right?


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## jacal01

The QMA800 performed admirably with my TH900 headphones during my listening sessions this weekend. No distortion or bloat detected at about the 9 o'clock position. It's starting to appear like current loop amp outputs are fairly impedance friendly in general, as advertised.
  
 The volume tho is pretty sensitive in that region, so finding that aural sweet spot for low impedance (or more correctly, low power) headphones and IEMs may take some knob micro-management.


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## jacal01

I tried my LCD-2.2s last night with the QMA800. A glorious time was had by all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also at approximately the 9 o'clock position, which bodes well for the HE-6. Tho in retrospect the TH900s may have been at 8:30 or even 8 o'clock. Most of the volume increase, at least for the lower impedance headphones, seems to be in this area. Or at least my listening comfort zone. But quite sensitive, and definitely non-linear.
  
 'Ware the bloom; protect the ear hair cells. Truly the sirens' seduction.
  
 The LCDs may actually be more euphonic with the CMA800 than the TH900s, I think.


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## project86

jacal01 said:


> I tried my LCD-2.2s last night with the QMA800. A glorious time was had by all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agree! LCD-2.2 is a great match, as is HE-500 and Thunderpants. I'll have an HE-6 and Alpha Dogs here soon enough, so we'll see how those do.


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## PETERCALV

Just a quick update that Questyle will be sending me a replacement CMA800 after the current Chinese Bank Holiday. They tell me it is a modified design with extra outputs (don't know what yet) and a mono switch.
  
 I will keep you posted when it arrives.


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## project86

petercalv said:


> Just a quick update that Questyle will be sending me a replacement CMA800 after the current Chinese Bank Holiday. They tell me it is a modified design with extra outputs (don't know what yet) and a mono switch.
> 
> I will keep you posted when it arrives.


 
  
  
 That's good to hear. They had mentioned a balanced option as an upcoming model so perhaps that's what they refer to. 
  
 I've got an HE-6 on the way and can't wait to try it with my CMA800. Will it have enough juice to do the job? We'll see.


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## jacal01

petercalv said:


> Just a quick update that Questyle will be sending me a replacement CMA800 after the current Chinese Bank Holiday. They tell me it is a modified design with extra outputs (don't know what yet) and a mono switch.
> 
> I will keep you posted when it arrives.


 
  
 It might be a lower impedance SE output like I was whinging to Alden about in the beginning.  If it's the unmeasurable distortion model upgrade, well then you've hit the jackpot.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I doubt it.  It's good though that you'll end up with a brand new replacement model with the latest refinements.
  
 EDIT:  Just grokked the mono switch remark.  Maybe it is the balanced model after all.


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## project86

Mention of the mono switch brings to mind the Matrix Quattro balanced amp. Dual 1/4" jacks, can be used like a normal amp if you want. But use an adapter to connect the dual 1/4" jacks to 4-pin XLR (or dual 3-pin XLR if you want) and the device can become a true balanced amp, driving each channel separately. 
  
 I'm just guessing but that's one possibility. Resonessence Labs does it with their Invicta DAC/amp as well, and it works great.


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## jacal01

The combo 1/4" TRS/3-pin XLR jacks would work well then in that instance, plus the switch.


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## project86

jacal01 said:


> The combo 1/4" TRS/3-pin XLR jacks would work well then in that instance, plus the switch.


 
  
  
 True, but I loath having those dual massive XLR jacks on a headphone. Maybe it's just me.


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## jacal01

I second that emotion.  I've got the 4-pin XLR jack on my CEntrance M8 configuration for that reason.  I noticed, tho, that the new Cavalli Liquid Gold production model is using them (3-pin XLR/TRS combo jacks).
  
 EDIT:  I just watched Jude's CanJam sneak preview.  The LAu amp has both (2 x 3-pin XLR/TRS combo + 4-pin XLR).


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## project86

I admit the dual 3-pin combo jacks that also accept 1/4" TRS is kind of nice. But for strictly balanced use I hate that style.... so there's no pleasing me I guess.


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## jacal01

No no no.  Au contraire.  We chased that issue pretty good on the HiFi-M8 thread when we were voting on its connectors, and the consensus is that the 4-pin XLR much much preferred over the dual 3-pin XLR for headphone cable use, for just that weight/bulkiness aspect.  Most guys there using the balanced headphone configuration are now outfitting their HP cable with the 4-pin connectors, and having short cable adapters made for when they confront a dual 3-pin situation.
  
 In fact, the RSA connector was/is promoted as an M8 option, also for that reason, and in fact the mini 4-pin XLR connector turned out to be the most preferred for portable use, and was much bemoaned because it wasn't included in the original member voting poll.


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## project86

I guess that "advantage" isn't really true now that I think about it. You either have dual 3-pin XLRs that double as TRS jacks, or else a single 4-pin XLR along with a dedicated TRS jack. Either way, two front panel holes.


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## jacal01

That's right.  The panel real estate requirements stay about the same.  The only real advantage is the size of the connector(s) at the end of your headphone cable.


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## PETERCALV

petercalv said:


> Just a quick update that Questyle will be sending me a replacement CMA800 after the current Chinese Bank Holiday. They tell me it is a modified design with extra outputs (don't know what yet) and a mono switch.
> 
> I will keep you posted when it arrives.


 
 Good news! The replacement amp is on its way! The model number is CMA800R. Here is an image of it before it was packed for shipping:
  

  
 Here are the notes sent to me by Alden:
  
_1. This is the upgraded version, model name is change to CMA800R, "R" means "Reference". With the full balance function, it will be a reference for not only our HP amp, but also, I am confident for most HP amplifiers._
_2. The front panel added "Full Balance Output", and "Mono/Stereo" option. Switch to "Mono" option, you can connect "Full Balance output" to listen Left /Right channel, function as Mono amplifier, so full balance will need a pair of CMA800R. You can use a Pre-amp to control it, there is "Pre-amp" input on rear panel._
  
 Looks interesting! It should be with me in a few days hopefully.


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## zenpunk

The XLR output  seem to only have three pins and there is only one so not too sure how it could be a balanced design???


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## jacal01

I like the way Questyle is aggressively developing their product for the global market.
  
 I see the new kids on the block between the volume knob and the SE headphone outputs.  In fact, if you look at the amp interior photo linked to the embedded image above, you can see that it's still of the old style CMA800.
  
 The mono/stereo switch is somewhat confusing.  Mono position means that you need 2 CMA800R amps to get left channel/right channel function, as in mono blocks?  Stereo is SE?  Is that a single 3-pin XLR connector or a 4-pin?  Can you tell?
  
 I wonder if the CMA800R THD specs have changed as well...
  
 This just in...  zenpunk thinks it's 3-pin.


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## project86

I haven't gotten around to asking Alden about it, but the earlier post does make sense - single 3-pin XLR output, dual CMA800R units required for balanced listening.... kind of like the new Woo monoblocks. I guess the volume control no longer applies when using it in that way? Interesting.
  
 In other news, I just received the HiFiMAN HE-6 in the mail. Curious to see how the CMA800 handles it - Alden said he had not tried it, and was unable to locate a dealer in the area who carried it. Apparently HiFiMAN is not super popular in that area, or maybe they all just have HE-400 and HE-500 but no HE-6.


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## jacal01

That's not as outlandish as it sounds at first blush.  If they keep their present pricing structure, you can have a true balanced output architecture via dual mono amps for about $3K.  Rack space could get to be an issue tho, especially in conjunction with a preamp feed.  I sorta wish that they would have rotated their amp housing 90° for the balanced mono model, like they did for the CMA600.
  
 That's interesting about the HE-6 unavailability.  You would think given their relative proximity... But who knows?


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## project86

jacal01 said:


> That's not as outlandish as it sounds at first blush.  If they keep their present pricing structure, you can have a true balanced output architecture via dual mono amps for about $3K.  Rack space could get to be an issue tho, especially in conjunction with a preamp feed.  I sorta wish that they would have rotated their amp housing 90° for the balanced mono model, like they did for the CMA600.
> 
> That's interesting about the HE-6 unavailability.  You would think given their relative proximity... But who knows?


 
  
  
 Yep, from their experience, HiFiMAN is not that popular in their area. Not sure exactly what "their area" encompasses though.... could just be a small regional thing, or their circle of headphone enthusiasts. 
  
 The good news - spent some time with the HE-6 on the CMA800 today, fed from their QAS192 DAC. Wow. That's a top level rig right there. Very dynamic and _very _high resolution. I get comfortable, fairly loud levels when I turn the knob to around 12 o clock or maybe 1 for more quiet recordings. I could go to maybe 2 or 3 for super soft jazz or classical, but the dynamic peaks might blow me away. And I didn't hear any evidence of clipping whatsoever, or running out of steam in any way. Have to go back and forth with the AURALiC Taurus mkII for comparison since that's an amp confirmed to drive the HE-6 very well, but so far I'd say CMA800 is very much up to the task.


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## PETERCALV

Yes, Alden has confirmed to me that they can be used like monoblock headphone amplifiers. I wanted to clarify that I could use two of them with either my Eximus DP1 or Naim DCA V1. He has stated that is how they are meant to be used.
  
 I would imagine then, that Questyle will now have to bring out a DAC with built in preamplifier to fill in the gap?


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## jacal01

Maybe.  The issue with integrated DAC/amps right now is that DACs seem to be evolving at a fast clip these days and amps and preamps not so much.  Perhaps the preamp circuit is not much of an add-on.  Separate preamps are generally about I/O signal selection as much as anything, anyway.
  
 That's encouraging news about the HE-6 headphones.  There's a resident crowd that seem to think that planars are best driven by speaker amps.


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## jacal01

It occurred to me that the obvious balanced amp configuration is stacked, not side-by-side.  Check to see if the CMA800R has dimples in its top cover to match the cone legs seating arrangement on its bottom. That would be a telltale.


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## project86

Doesn't appear so from that pic. I used the CMA800 stacked on the CAS192, and the spiked feet seemed like a liability, so now I use some sorbothane puck thingies under the spikes. Have a set under the CMA800 too, just to protect my shelf.


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## jacal01

Good suggestion.  I hadn't really given much thought to the CMA800 cone feet apices digging into my cherry hardwood shelf, I guess because the weight isn't there with a single amp (~3-4 kg?).


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## project86

It's certainly not as bad as it could be if there was more weight involved. Yet the light weight also means the device can easily slide when doing stuff like pushing buttons or plugging in cables. Sliding causes scratching. I believe these are the same feet as used on the Anedio D1. They ended up changing those when they redesigned it as the D2, to a more traditional footer with padding. I believe this was done because of complaints of scratching. 
  
 The cone feet sure look nice though. Very "HiFi" if you know what I mean.


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## jacal01

Yeah, it's one of the things that initially made me think "quality".
  
 No sliding/scratching issues yet, tho.  Altho you've now raised my level of consciousness where I'm going to be cognizant of not letting the amp move whenever I plug or unplug my headphones.  I have the impression that the feet are dug just enough into the wood to resist surface sliding with ordinary plug/unplugging effort.


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## eimmot

I'd be sold on this amp if it had more than one input.  I listen to mostly vinyl, but have a big CD collection as well.  Currently using a Shanlin PH300.  Why-oh-why can they not add another input?!?!?  It also irks me that some DAC headphone amps don't have an additional analog input.  I guess you have to love just analog or digital - can't be both,


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## PETERCALV

I received the reference version of this amplifier yesterday. As you can see from the picture below, the daft spiked feet have been replaced by something more sensible:
  

  
  
 Below are a couple of internal pictures that show changes made to the layout of the amplifier:
  

  

  
 I haven't had time yet to give this a listen (will probably be the weekend now). However, the unit is very well presented, and built like a tank! If it sounds as good as it looks, it will be a good purchase.


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## alvin sawdust

petercalv said:


> I received the reference version of this amplifier yesterday. As you can see from the picture below, the daft spiked feet have been replaced by something more sensible:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Glad to see you got your replacement safely delivered, lets hope this one works.
 Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## victorcc

Those pictures look great, the Questyle looks like a winner for hard to power cans.
  
 As I am looking for the best (detailed, airy, precise, powerful enough) reasonable priced headphone amp for my HE-6s, I would love to read a comparison between the Questyle and the EF6, Soloist or Audio-GD Master X. Currently the Soloist and Master-X are in my short-list being a little bit more inclined towards the Master.
  
 I am currently using the speaker taps of a Leben CS300XS but I am not completely satisfied, particularly because of the precision of the bass compared with a good solid state amp.
  
 Cheers


----------



## project86

Will have to spend more time with the HE-6 when I can. But at the moment, I'm using my Thunderpants, which seem just a bit less power hungry than the HE-6 (but not by much) and the CMA800 is knocking my socks off. Amazing clarity but definitely NOT in the analytical/sterile camp. Bass impact is nothing short of top class, price be damned. Of course, it takes a good system to bring this out. I tried a few different $500-1000 DACs and didn't really feel the magic. Switched to the Questyle CAS192 or the Resonessence Labs Invicta and BANG! It all came together.
  
 Can't wait to hear the CMA800R monoblocks at some point. I can't imagine how good _that_ will sound.


----------



## victorcc

Thanks a lot for the quick answer, your findings look really promising. 
 
Are you saying that the Questyle CAS192 DAC is top class? Mentioning other DACs that you know, at which level would you position it?
 
I will be waiting for you to spend more time with the HE-6s.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 
Cheers


----------



## project86

victorcc said:


> [COLOR=222222]Thanks a lot for the quick answer, your findings look really promising. [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222]Are you saying that the Questyle CAS192 DAC is top class? Mentioning other DACs that you know, at which level would you position it?[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
> ...




From my somewhat limited time, the CAS192 seems at least on par with some of my favorites like Matrix X-Sabre, Yulong DA8, Anedio D2. I need to spend a lot more time with it, but so far it is very impressive. Not so amazing on features though - no DSD, no preamp or volume control, no built in headphone amp.... Just a straight PCM DAC that sounds really good. They tell me a DSD capable version is coming eventually. Not sure in time frame though.


----------



## victorcc

Wow, thanks for the info. 
  
 I wonder how their Mini DAC, which cost 3 times less, will stand against its big brother:
  
Differences between CAS192 Mini and CAS192:
 CAS192Mini has canceled the Toslink input and add the Coaxial output. 
 CAS192Mini has canceled the balance output 
 CAS192Mini fix the digital filters on IIR (MP) 
 CAS192Mini has canceled the dual clock integral up sampling 
 CAS192Mini use the custom-designed military level transformer which is full sealed ultra-low noise and ultra-low magnet-loss


----------



## PETERCALV

The CMA800 Reference sounds like a very promising amp indeed. I tried it last night with an Eximus DP1 and Naim V1 DAC. The clarity is superb.
  
 At the moment, I much prefer it with the Naim, as it has given the strong bass and 'Naim' soundstage huge openness and clarity. This is exactly what I hoped it would do.
  
 Although the Eximus is a very good headphone amp/DAC combination with superb clarity, it has always been lacking in bass for me. I think that to get any added value from the Eximus, you may have to risk the cost and use two CMA800R amps as monoblocks, but I suspect the bass would still be lacking.
  
 Still, early days yet as far as listening goes....


----------



## alvin sawdust

petercalv said:


> The CMA800 Reference sounds like a very promising amp indeed. I tried it last night with an Eximus DP1 and Naim V1 DAC. The clarity is superb.
> 
> At the moment, I much prefer it with the Naim, as it has given the strong bass and 'Naim' soundstage huge openness and clarity. This is exactly what I hoped it would do.
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe we should organise a Cheshire mini meet


----------



## project86

victorcc said:


> Wow, thanks for the info.
> 
> I wonder how their Mini DAC, which cost 3 times less, will stand against its big brother:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was thinking the same thing.... but looking at the internal pics, I think there's more to it than that. The power supply alone is very different - CAS192 has over twice the capacitance, massive transformer, more regulation, not to mention physical layout helping separate it from the rest of the circuitry. That said, the CAS192 Mini could still be quite good in its price range. Sure is pretty, with a sort of Ayre QB-9 look to it.


----------



## SebastianL

@jacal01 could you make a comparison between the CMA800 and the Bakoon HPA-21? Especially driving the LCD-2.
Thx.


----------



## jacal01

You have to understand that there are no losers here.  The nice thing about current driven amps is that they appear to be tolerant with most if not all headphones, regardless of impedance. Impedance matching does not seem to be all that essential, very likely because the output signal current drives the heaphones ("push"), rather than the output voltage inducing the signal current through all the system impedances ("pull"), implying impedance matching is more critical.  Or so it once made sense to me...
  
 Comparing the CMA800 and HPA-21 amps, using the same DAC and source material, the CMA800 seems to be somwhat brighter, more airy, with the HPA-21 darker/warmer.  The HPA-21 seems to have more body and texture in the mids and middle bass regions.  However, the CMA800 appears to have slightly more bass extension, however thinner.  Weird that.  And the CMA800 seems to actually have less distortion than the HPA-21; the notes and vocals are crisper, more articulate.  The HPA-21 also seems to run a bit hotter, for what that's worth (Class A?).
  
 Having said all that, there seems to be a special synergy with the CMA800 and my LCD-2s. I believe this extraordinary match is because of pairing a brightish amp with darker headphones.  Remember, we're talking nuances here, not glaring attributes.  But it's a very good resulting tonal meld which is quite pleasing to the ear.  Of the two amp pairings with the LCD-2, I feel the CMA800 combo is more euphonic, at least to me.
  
 However, I think that the HPA-21, because of producing fuller audio in the mids and mid bass frequencies, does offer the advantage of better approximating the euphonic tube sound of lots of mids bloom.  If you relish more the warm lush sound of tube amps, then the HPA-21 ascends over the CMA800.
  
 I think that the CMA800 offers exceptional SQ value at whatever price point it's finally introduced at in the US.  I anticipate a US distributor to be in place and product exhibition by RMAF 2014.  Meanwhile, you can most likely purchase one factory direct by contacting Questyle (Alden Zhao) and inquiring.  Payment will need to be via bank wire transfer.


----------



## wsz0304

if you look for it on ebay,you can find it.


----------



## project86

jacal01 said:


> You have to understand that there are no losers here.  The nice thing about current driven amps is that they appear to be tolerant with most if not all headphones, regardless of impedance. Impedance matching does not seem to be all that essential, very likely because the output signal current drives the heaphones ("push"), rather than the output voltage inducing the signal current through all the system impedances ("pull"), implying impedance matching is more critical.  Or so it once made sense to me...
> 
> Comparing the CMA800 and HPA-21 amps, using the same DAC and source material, the CMA800 seems to be somwhat brighter, more airy, with the HPA-21 darker/warmer.  The HPA-21 seems to have more body and texture in the mids and middle bass regions.  However, the CMA800 appears to have slightly more bass extension, however thinner.  Weird that.  And the CMA800 seems to actually have less distortion than the HPA-21; the notes and vocals are crisper, more articulate.  The HPA-21 also seems to run a bit hotter, for what that's worth (Class A?).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for that info. I don't have a Bakoon here to compare but throwing the CMA800 up against the Violectric V200, AURALiC Taurus, Analog Design Labs Svetlana II, and Icon Audio HP8 mkII (all excellent amps in the $1000+ range), I find the CMA800 to hold ground very well. It's just got such a killer sound to it that seems almost unique. But then again each of them has their own character.... but CMA800 is definitely up there with the best of them.
  
 I'm working on my full review for InnerFidelity and hope to have it up soon - more people need to hear about this gem!


----------



## SebastianL

jacal01 thanks for sharing your thoughts on the CMA800 vs. the Bakoon. That post was exactly what I  was looking for.
 This leaves me in a bit of a spot though. Being a tube-fan I think the Bakoon is more in sync with my ideal sound but the CMA800 suits my wallet a little better 
  
 @project86
 I used to own a Violectric HPA-V181 which I sold because my heavily modded Little Dot MKIVse sounded marginally better with my LCD-2s. Even running the Violectric fully balanced all the way from the source to the cans using an expensive Zeus OCC Copper balanced aftermarket cable. With the LD I just use the Audez'e stock cable.
 What I liked about the Violectric though was its blackground. Stll I preferred my LD by a slight margin.
 As the V181 and V200 are very close in SQ, I hope the CMA800 is a significant upgrade from the V200? Or else I don't really understand the fuss about the CMA800.


----------



## project86

sebastianl said:


> @project86
> I used to own a Violectric HPA-V181 which I sold because my heavily modded Little Dot MKIVse sounded marginally better with my LCD-2s. Even running the Violectric fully balanced all the way from the source to the cans using an expensive Zeus OCC Copper balanced aftermarket cable. With the LD I just use the Audez'e stock cable.
> What I liked about the Violectric though was its blackground. Stll I preferred my LD by a slight margin.
> As the V181 and V200 are very close in SQ, I hope the CMA800 is a significant upgrade from the V200? Or else I don't really understand the fuss about the CMA800.


 
  
 Well, I do like the V200 more than V181. And I do like the CMA800 more than the V200, at least with certain headphones. That should be considered a big deal because the V200, for me, is one of the best amps out there. Maybe you just didn't get on with the Violectric house sound as much as I do.


----------



## SebastianL

The V181 is not a bad amp, it just got hyped too much in the 'best amp for the LCD-2' thread.
The funny thing is that my LD tube amp and the V181 weren't far apart in sound signature. Mind you that I have spent years tube rolling and modding the hell out of the little chinese amp. But I just can't say that the V181 is something special.

Btw. the best I have ever heard my LCD-2 (rev. 1) was straight out of a Totaldac's headphone out! A SS circuit inside the r2r-ladder converter. (And I'm usually a tube fan.) The treble wasn't recessed at all. Everything sounded crystal clear and had just the right balance.
That's why I know it's possible to make the LCD-2 sound just the way I want it to sound. I have the right DAC, I just need the proper amp for it. That amp may be a current mode amp.


----------



## BournePerfect

John-how does the CMA800 compare with the Taurus with the HD800s? Been eying both of these lately for some reason...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## project86

bourneperfect said:


> John-how does the CMA800 compare with the Taurus with the HD800s? Been eying both of these lately for some reason...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Working on figuring that out now. I'd like to finish reviews of both models soon but stuff keeps getting in the way. 
  
 For HD800 I gotta say - though both are excellent, CMA800 has a special synergy for me. Clarity is just unbelievable, and it's not annoying, bright, zingy, etc, as the HD800 has potential to be. Having said that, the Taurus is definitely appealing as well, in its own way. HE-6 for example, though the CMA800 does a great job with it, sounds the best I've ever heard through the Taurus.


----------



## BournePerfect

Seeing as I'm gonna pick up an HE6 again soon-that doesn't help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks John.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jacal01

project86 said:


> Thanks for that info. I don't have a Bakoon here to compare but throwing the CMA800 up against the Violectric V200, AURALiC Taurus, Analog Design Labs Svetlana II, and Icon Audio HP8 mkII (all excellent amps in the $1000+ range), I find the CMA800 to hold ground very well. It's just got such a killer sound to it that seems almost unique. But then again each of them has their own character.... but CMA800 is definitely up there with the best of them.
> 
> I'm working on my full review for InnerFidelity and hope to have it up soon - more people need to hear about this gem!


 
  
 I think its the current driven amp doing its magic.  That low distortion crystal clarity is so seductive.  It is somewhat too bad that you don't have more exposure to the different current amps for like comparisons, tho.  I actually bounce between the CMA800, my Bakoon and my Krell on a fairly routine basis, depending on my predilection of the moment.  I've got my individual headphones paired with my amps of choice for optimum synergy, so that I really select a combo each time. It seems to add variety based on the DAC/amp/HP different characters, as you say, that my mood and music can resonate with.  I'm probably spoiled.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Just saw this thread and the current mode thing piqued my interest quite a bit.

From reading the entire product page, it would seem that it's just a current gain amp, with a normal voltage output. Which makes sense as otherwise it wouldn't work well with anything but headphones with flat impedance curves.

Still in interesting amp though...


----------



## project86

souprknowva said:


> Just saw this thread and the current mode thing piqued my interest quite a bit.
> 
> From reading the entire product page, it would seem that it's just a current gain amp, with a normal voltage output. Which makes sense as otherwise it wouldn't work well with anything but headphones with flat impedance curves.
> 
> Still in interesting amp though...


 
  
  
 Nope, it's a transconductance amp - voltage input, current output. Their "TransLinear Loop" circuit means headphone impedance is not an issue. Or at least that's been my experience, and that's what I make of their engineering descriptions so far. They are still translating some things for me so I can complete my review at InnerFidelity.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

project86 said:


> Nope, it's a transconductance amp - voltage input, current output. Their "TransLinear Loop" circuit means headphone impedance is not an issue. Or at least that's been my experience, and that's what I make of their engineering descriptions so far. They are still translating some things for me so I can complete my review at InnerFidelity.



I'd be willing to admit that I was wrong, but that's my impression from reading the website. Just ask them what the output impedance is, that will answer the question for sure


----------



## project86

souprknowva said:


> I'd be willing to admit that I was wrong, but that's my impression from reading the website. Just ask them what the output impedance is, that will answer the question for sure


 
  
 No problem, it's definitely a bit more confusing than dealing with a more conventional design. I have lots of questions that they are working on answering for me.


----------



## project86

OK, so I have to eat my words - and rethink my entire approach to this amp. The output is indeed in the voltage domain. So they use a current mode gain stage followed by an I/V converter. Still trying to figure it all out, and the language barrier becomes an issue for technical stuff.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

project86 said:


> OK, so I have to eat my words - and rethink my entire approach to this amp. The output is indeed in the voltage domain. So they use a current mode gain stage followed by an I/V converter. Still trying to figure it all out, and the language barrier becomes an issue for technical stuff.



Good to have confirmation. The fact that it lists an output buffer after the transconductance current gain stage is what made me think it was standard voltage output. Audio GD amps have been doing something similar for years now. Makes me wonder how they got patents for it as well, since the satri circuit not to mention krell and audio gd have been doing it for quite a while. Make it sound just like marketing fluff to me.

Anyways, I'm still excited to read your review and see how it sounds


----------



## SebastianL

So far I've only had a few hours with my new CMA800R but I can safely say that it's not lacking any bass impact, which was one of my main concerns with this amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Also I've noticed a slight improvement in dynamics over my heavily modded Little Dot mkIVse which in direct comparison sounds a bit more squeezed.


----------



## SebastianL

Hey wow, the extra 4 pairs of cone-feet included with the amp make fantastic spinning tops!! They go on forever and stay in the eaxct same spot all the time. Best spinning tops I've ever come across, amazing. Just a fun thing to do, while waiting for the amp to burn in.
  
 Yeah I know it's stupid, but for some reason they included eight extra spiked feet. Guess as they had them lying around anyway from the now discontinued CMA800 edition, they might as well send them along as great toys


----------



## jacal01

souprknowva said:


> Good to have confirmation. The fact that it lists an output buffer after the transconductance current gain stage is what made me think it was standard voltage output. Audio GD amps have been doing something similar for years now. Makes me wonder how they got patents for it as well, since the satri circuit not to mention krell and audio gd have been doing it for quite a while. Make it sound just like marketing fluff to me.
> 
> Anyways, I'm still excited to read your review and see how it sounds


 
  
 I don't think that Questyle uses the same current transconductance topology as Bakoon or Krell/audio-gd, since they appear to have stumbled upon their particular audio circuit while developing a high speed communications product.  And I think that the CMA800 has the lowest THD+N and TIMD specs of all of them, since its circuit topology seems to have been especially optimized for linear signal gain, based on my listening comparisons.
  
 I do think that you're right about the Questyle output being voltage driven, since their lower end CMA600 amp offers options between high impedance and low impedance output modules.


----------



## project86

Finally finished my actual review of the CMA800. By now it's obsolete..... sort of. The CMA800R is the new replacement, basically the same thing with slightly more power and better specs, plus the dual-mono option. So everything I say in the review should still apply. I imagine they still have stock of the original CMA800 available since the CMA800R is so new.


----------



## jacal01

That's great news. I would imagine that whatever observations and conclusions you may have gathered on the CMA800 would also apply to the newer CMA800R, since I'm sure that the newer Questyle model still utilizes the same signal gain topology as the base amp, plus whatever additional capabilities and enhancements of the replacement model. 

You could always add some updating contingency statements for the newer model where appropriate, bespeaking of the added capabilities and enhancements of the CMA800R where you might have additional knowledge or data, such as when discussing the base amp's disadvantages. 

I would also think that the synergy of the Questyle amp and DAC products would also still be true for the CMA800R.


----------



## PETERCALV

Following on from the great review by project86. I am now using two CMA800R in a balanced combination. The sound is nothing short of breathtaking, and worth every penny (or cent). IMO this combination is as good as it gets...


----------



## jacal01

Where's the smiley face for :smug:?


----------



## victorcc

petercalv said:


> Following on from the great review by project86. I am now using two CMA800R in a balanced combination. The sound is nothing short of breathtaking, and worth every penny (or cent). IMO this combination is as good as it gets...


 
Wow! Can you elaborate a little bit more? Which headphones are you using and what differences do you notice from your previous configuration or from using only one CMA800R?
 
Cheers


----------



## PETERCALV

victorcc said:


> Wow! Can you elaborate a little bit more? Which headphones are you using and what differences do you notice from your previous configuration or from using only one CMA800R?
> 
> Cheers


 
 Here is a picture of what I am using this with. I hope it won't be considered too smug showing this:
  

  
 I have used the Questyle combination with an Eximus DP1 and Naim DAC (as in the above photo). The Naim is by far the better match for me. I also use HD800 headphones. What is immediately noticeable is the incredibly wide soundstage. I have never heard anything that good before from headphones (or speakers for that matter). I have only had this combination for just over a week, so I am still coming to terms with it.


----------



## zenpunk

How can that set up can be balanced? I don't think the V1 has balanced out, only RCA out with shared ground, or I am missing something?


----------



## SebastianL

I was about to ask the same question. Doesn't it require two balanced xlr inputs for it to run in full balanced mode?


----------



## alvin sawdust

petercalv said:


> Here is a picture of what I am using this with. I hope it won't be considered too smug showing this:
> 
> 
> 
> I have used the Questyle combination with an Eximus DP1 and Naim DAC (as in the above photo). The Naim is by far the better match for me. I also use HD800 headphones. What is immediately noticeable is the incredibly wide soundstage. I have never heard anything that good before from headphones (or speakers for that matter). I have only had this combination for just over a week, so I am still coming to terms with it.


 
 Wow, lucky you, congratulations. Silly question really but do you think it may be your end game amp set up?


----------



## zenpunk

Don't be silly! You know there is no such a thing in the audio world. 




  
 Quote:


sebastianl said:


> I was about to ask the same question. Doesn't it require two balanced xlr inputs for it to run in full balanced mode?


 
 Unless the new 800R has the ability to balance its SE input (using trafos or opamps), otherwise it is only a dual mono set up.


----------



## project86

I was gonna say the same - when running from the Naim DAC, I'd call this a dual mono setup rather than a fully balanced one. The Eximus could make it fully balanced. But hey, if you prefer the V1 in the chain, then it doesn't matter what label we give it!


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,
 Let me be out of topics.
 The industry is now in right track for the science for a drive amplifier design for speaker motor, which is mostly driven not by voltage but current.
 The current generates magnetic flux density or pressure that is directly related to sound pressure.
 When the phone coils are driven by voltage in audio signal band, the phase between driving and driven may widely vary with for frequency range aka impedance.
 It will be well emphasized in dynamic driver due to inductance presence, but will be reduced in ortho.
 Regardless of the driver type, the current driven amps see no phase distortion, which is functionally equivalent to jitering.
  
 For this regards, Bakgoon, Questyle, Audeze, and Hifiman are in right direction.
 However dynamic drive can also enjoy no phase distortion for entire signal band, but mechanically induce phase delay is inevitable with dynamic driver.
 For now I need save for a Qstyle in some time for my LCD-2.2 and He-5Le.


----------



## PETERCALV

You have hit the nail on the head here. Fully balanced through the Eximus is not as good (for me) as dual mono through the Naim. There was also a massive improvement in sound stage moving from one CMA800R to two in dual mono. The bass especially is incredibly powerful but not overbearing (although part of that is down to the Naim). I would never have thought it was possible to get such good, strong bass extension through HD800's.
  
 It is also an excellent upgrade path as well.
  
 I will be sticking with what I have for the time being, until the right preamp/DAC/balanced combination comes along to match the Questyle (I have already suggested to them that it is something they need to consider).


----------



## Joong

CMA800:
Max Output Power :180mW (7.5Vrms) @300Ω, standard Stereo Mode
710mW (15Vrms) @300Ω, Mono Mode

This power is ok to drive LCD-2s?
Because the current output goes through the impedance of HP, and generates power so that the max power 710mW through 300 ohms becomes 71mW for 30ohms.

It seems too weak for the power to drive Lcd-2s that demand about 1w.

Could you guys give some explanation?

thanks


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

joong said:


> CMA800:
> Max Output Power :180mW (7.5Vrms) @300Ω, standard Stereo Mode
> 710mW (15Vrms) @300Ω, Mono Mode
> 
> ...


 
 what equation is it that gives a logarithmic relation between impedance and power?
  
  
 simply using the normal equation:
  
 (7.5^2)/60 = 0.9375 W
  
 or
  
 (15^2)/60 = 3.75 W
  
 It should drive the LCD2 fine


----------



## SebastianL

joong said:


> CMA800:
> Max Output Power :180mW (7.5Vrms) @300Ω, standard Stereo Mode
> 710mW (15Vrms) @300Ω, Mono Mode
> 
> ...


 

 Read this post of mine:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/692923/review-questyle-cma800-current-mode-amplifier#post_10029600
  
 If this amp hasn't got enough power to drive the LCD-2 the next step would be to connect it directly to the speaker posts of a 500w power amp!! I know some people do this for some crazy reason. There are other ways to blow your eardrums to smithereens


----------



## Joong

kamijoismyhero said:


> what equation is it that gives a logarithmic relation between impedance and power?
> 
> 
> simply using the normal equation:
> ...



If the amp is a voltage source, you are right.
However it is current source, the power is equal to IIR in peak to peak.
Because ideal current source has infinite source impedance.

For this regard, my estimation too rough.

To be exact, the power through the 50 ohms of LCD-2 The p-p power is 0.025^2 x 50=31 mW.
where 0.025 amps = 7.5 V/300 ohm per spec and the current does not vary with load that is HPs.
My assumption is that CMA800 is A current source with at least source impedance of 10 Mega ohms.
thanks.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

joong said:


> If the amp is a voltage source, you are right.
> However it is current source, the power is equal to IIR in peak to peak.
> Because ideal current source has infinite source impedance.
> 
> ...


 
  
 meh once I got introduced to Norton's theorem, I never bothered calculating using amperes. To me, its all the same as you can get an equivalent look at how the circuit will work. I don't think it matters too much. Nothing seems to suggest they are using Amperes in their calculations, it's quite the opposite as their specs give VRMS as well as
  

  
 Maybe their rep can clarify. It'd be nice.


----------



## project86

Well, based in the specs given I to a 64 ohm load (700 mW) and a 32 ohm load (1100mW), we can assume the LCD-2 would fall somewhere in the middle. So maybe 900mW or so, give or take a little? Basically close to 1 W. LCD-2 is no HE-6 in my experience.... It likes some juice, but not THAT much. The CMA800 seems to have plenty available.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

joong said:


> However it is current source




But it isn't a current source amp, it's a voltage source amp. Project86 confirmed that in his review.


----------



## Joong

Thank you for your clarification.
 The all the signal paths prior to the output buffer that may convert the current signal to voltage one in order to get low output impedance.
 This case of signal processing is an usual signal processing in Integrated Circuit.
 Because current handling is very convenient to handle both the magnitude and the phase. both of which are actually signal.
 The headphones are really a motor that is directly driven by current that generates magnetic flux that is proportional to acoustic pressure.
 The voltage information is not equal to the acoustic information in this regards.
 But the current information is equal to the acoustic information due to motor relation.
 This is a reason why I want CMA800 to be an ideal headphone driver that is the most effectively driven and is truly tracing the original record.
  
 Why did Questyle deviate from the current passage, and finally ended up with voltage source driver?
  
 There is certainly technical barriers?


----------



## Joong

Thank you for your kindness, and your effort.
  
 Quote:


kamijoismyhero said:


> meh once I got introduced to Norton's theorem, I never bothered calculating using amperes. To me, its all the same as you can get an equivalent look at how the circuit will work. I don't think it matters too much. Nothing seems to suggest they are using Amperes in their calculations, it's quite the opposite as their specs give VRMS as well as
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe their rep can clarify. It'd be nice.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Well for one, headphones aren't currently designed to be driven by current sources, so frequency response anomalies will almost always result and two, you lost electrical dampening that way, which I think most dynamic drivers need.


----------



## Joong

I see that there are too much impedance gap between dynamic HP and ortho HP to hit market location with single architecture of current source amp.
 Therefore the current mode amp can not easily find the market for large volume sales, which are certainly related to dynamic phones.


----------



## SebastianL

Be careful not to put too much emphasis on specs alone when considering hifi equipment. I'm very well aware that Audez'e recommends amps that produce 1-4w 
but power isn't an issue here. Schiit Lyr doesn't sound nowhere near as good with its 4w into 50 ohms.

I think it goes for any decent headphone that it will benefit from some more headroom or a better damping factor. But LCD-2 is not a power hungry headphone such as some of the HifiMans planar magnetics. LCD-2 plays fine straight out of my iPhone, iPad and Sansa Clip without distortion at dynamic peaks. Of course it isn't highend but it sounds dynamic and distortionless. 

The CMA800 has more than enough power to drive the LCD-2 sufficiently, period.
I might as well argue that it's got too much power as it hasn't got an attenuator. thus making the 9 o'clock position the ideal for normal listening level with most kinds of music. However most pots work best electrically at around 12 o'clock, a position that will most likely give me a hearing loss with my LCD-2!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

sebastianl said:


> I might as well argue that it's got too much power as it hasn't got an attenuator. thus making the 9 o'clock position the ideal for normal listening level with most kinds of music. However most pots work best electrically at around 12 o'clock, a position that will most likely give me a hearing loss with my LCD-2!





That's not too much power, that's too much gain


----------



## Carlsan

Anyone compare this to the Bryston BHA-1?


----------



## project86

carlsan said:


> Anyone compare this to the Bryston BHA-1?


 
  
 Not directly. I had a Bryston here for a while, it's a nice amp for sure. Not absolute top class imho, but still very nice. Reminds me of their DAC - very nice, maybe not the best available but definitely enjoyable. Plus the crazy warranty and nice build quality are very welcome. 
  
 Based on memory, the BHA-1 is not as transparent overall. The CMA800 digs out more detail and therefore seems more accurate. Bryston is good in that area but not among the best I've heard.


----------



## Joong

Did you compare CMA800 with Soloist?
thanks


----------



## jacal01

Not even close.


----------



## project86

joong said:


> Did you compare CMA800 with Soloist?
> thanks


 
  
 Sorry, no. I've heard the Soloist several times but not recently.


----------



## Carlsan

I'm on the fence about getting the CMA800, which I can get for a good price. I also have a Soloist and the BHA-1. If I follow through and buy it I'll try to make some observations.
  
 I do wonder if the BHA-1 in balanced mode would still be better than the CMA800 in single ended headphone out for driving the LCD-3 or HE-6.
 (Both served with a balanced connected Anedio D2)
  
 Buying two CMA800's to make a balanced setup up is out of the question at this time.


----------



## project86

carlsan said:


> I'm on the fence about getting the CMA800, which I can get for a good price. I also have a Soloist and the BHA-1. If I follow through and buy it I'll try to make some observations.
> 
> I do wonder if the BHA-1 in balanced mode would still be better than the CMA800 in single ended headphone out for driving the LCD-3 or HE-6.
> (Both served with a balanced connected Anedio D2)
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind that the BHA-1 is not really a "true" balanced design. It's basically a balanced input stage, followed by a stereo volume control (2 gang rather than 4), then a special inversion stage to make the quad (balanced) output signal. So essentially it's balanced to single ended back to balanced. 
  
 This could be seen as bad, like they added complexity for no reason, or negated the benefits of a "true" balanced amp. Then again it also means the XLR or SE output jacks should sound virtually identical.


----------



## Carlsan

If one uses two CMA800's in balance mode, can one still use the single ended headphone output if needed?
 Of do you need two separate inputs, one single ended, left and right, to one of the CMA800's, and the other input, the balanced right single CMA800 and the other left balanced single CMA800.
  
 In other words, can one use the dual CMA800 setup both for the balanced output as well as a single ended in stereo (out of one unit)? Granted with a second pair of input feeding that unit, besides the single balanced.


----------



## project86

carlsan said:


> If one uses two CMA800's in balance mode, can one still use the single ended headphone output if needed?
> Of do you need two separate inputs, one single ended, left and right, to one of the CMA800's, and the other input, the balanced right single CMA800 and the other left balanced single CMA800.
> 
> In other words, can one use the dual CMA800 setup both for the balanced output as well as a single ended in stereo (out of one unit)? Granted with a second pair of input feeding that unit, besides the single balanced.


 
  
  
 I doubt it. There's a switch on front for selecting stereo or mono operation. I'm assuming the unselected output is then muted.


----------



## Carlsan

project86 said:


> I doubt it. There's a switch on front for selecting stereo or mono operation. I'm assuming the unselected output is then muted.


 
  
 You can't use both outputs at the same time but still that would work in being able to use either balanced or single ended outputs.
  
 A pair of rca's or xlr's going into one unit, the balanced input xlr's going one into each unit. With those two sets of inputs, you should have the versatility of using one  unit with 1/4 inch headphone plugs when needed, when switched to stereo.
 When balanced output is required then having both units switched mono would do it.


----------



## project86

I get it. Good question.... seems like it maybe should work, but I'm not sure. I do have a pair of CMA800R on the way for review (and comparison to the single CMA800) so I'll give it a shot when I can. If any of the dual CMA800R users care to try if first, feel free.


----------



## JeffA

I see that you can purchase the CMA800R through Amazon for $1,499. Does anyone know if Questyle allows for an audition period?


----------



## Sanlitun

I'm in. Ordered tonight.


----------



## pprice42

Though I would like to upgrade to HD800's eventually, would this be overkill for HD650's that I am using right now? Right now I use an old cosmic amp I purchased years ago.


----------



## Carlsan

If you can get it a a price, it may help you with your future plans.
 Not sure about the HD650, but my guess is that it would help bring out the full potential of the headphone.


----------



## BournePerfect

project86 said:


> Keep in mind that the BHA-1 is not really a "true" balanced design. It's basically a balanced input stage, followed by a stereo volume control (2 gang rather than 4), then a special inversion stage to make the quad (balanced) output signal. So essentially it's balanced to single ended back to balanced.
> 
> This could be seen as bad, like they added complexity for no reason, or negated the benefits of a "true" balanced amp. Then again it also means the XLR or SE output jacks should sound virtually identical.


 
  
 Still sounds better than the 'true balanced' Mjolnir from my experience, and most reports. Like everything though, it still always ends with subjective preferances. Keep in mind as well that the BHA-1's SE output is garbage compared to balanced. I'd think comparing the balanced Bryston against the SE CMA800 is a fair comparison though since they are in the same price bracket, and using their full design to boot. IMO.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Carlsan

> Originally Posted by *BournePerfect* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [BHA-1]
> 
> Still sounds better than the 'true balanced' Mjolnir from my experience, and most reports. ...


 
  
 Yes agreed, I felt the same when I had both. I returned the Mjolnir and kept the BHA-1.


----------



## BournePerfect

Good choice. Keep in mind I only heard them both the balanced HD800s and balanced LCD 2.2s-and felt the BHA-1 was superior for both. The MJ did perform admirably for the price though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Carlsan

bourneperfect said:


> Good choice. Keep in mind I only heard them both the balanced HD800s and balanced LCD 2.2s-and felt the BHA-1 was superior for both. The MJ did perform admirably for the price though.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 They really weren't that far apart with the balanced headphones I tried, lcd-3, hd-800, he-6.
 Thought the MJ was  rougher on the high notes, with slightly less resolution overall. Certainly not the amount as one would expect from the price difference.
 In the end, the lack of SE on the MJ also played a part.
 If I was more strapped for funds, I would have kept the MJ for balanced, as I still have the Soloist that does an excellent job single ended with my many phones.
  
 Getting back to topic, I just ordered two CMA800R (for a balanced setup) and will compare that to the BHA-1 after I receive them. I'm hoping for another step up in resolution.


----------



## project86

Oh don't get me wrong, the Bryston is an excellent amp. Very good with most any headphone. I'd choose it over 90% of the other high end apps out there.


----------



## mcullinan

dang I was gunna post the review... 
 
Anyway my Questyle should be arriving in a couple of weeks!
  
Cant wait.


----------



## project86

I received a single CMA800R to compare to the original CMA800. Questyle will send along another CMA800R down the road, to evaluate the balanced dual mono capability. I was under the impression that the 800 should sound very, very similar to the 800R version, but they tell me it is more different than I would have expected. We'll see.


----------



## jacal01

Alden told me that the distortion was lower on the 800R, so maybe they did tweak its gain circuit relative to the 800.  I'd be interested to know if there is a significant difference in sound signature between the models, too.  Did they give you a heads up on what to look for in the way of difference?


----------



## lithium1085

project86 said:


> I received a single CMA800R to compare to the original CMA800. Questyle will send along another CMA800R down the road, to evaluate the balanced dual mono capability. I was under the impression that the 800 should sound very, very similar to the 800R version, but they tell me it is more different than I would have expected. We'll see.


 
 Hi John, thanks for all the impressions and I look forward to the CMA800R as well. Coming back to the bridged dual mono design, I hope you are reviewing the nuforce HA-200 as well. I know you probably don't have time to review everything but I am keeping my fingers crossed since you have reviewed nuforce previously. Thanks again for all the great work.


----------



## PETERCALV

The Nuforce looks an interesting design as well. The dual mono idea seems to be catching on.
  
 When I got my first CMA800R, I tried it using fixed output from an Eximus and then a Naim DAC. I found the sound to be better using variable output, especially from the Naim, as this added slightly more weight to the bass. With the Eximus, it added emphasis to an already wide soundstage.
  
 With dual mono CMA800R's you need to set the volume to max on both units, and control the volume from your DAC (which needs a preamplifier). This means the signature of the DAC/preamplifier is introduced into the sound of the Questyle.
  
 Questyle's own DAC has received some very favourable reviews, but does not have a built in preamplifier. I suppose though, this could be used with a passive preamplifier.
  
 I think what I am trying to say, is that you have a wide number of variables to influence either the sound of your DAC, or the CMA800R, whether it be in single use, dual mono, or fully balanced.


----------



## project86

jacal01 said:


> Alden told me that the distortion was lower on the 800R, so maybe they did tweak its gain circuit relative to the 800.  I'd be interested to know if there is a significant difference in sound signature between the models, too.  Did they give you a heads up on what to look for in the way of difference?


 
  
 They didn't give real specifics as far as what to look for. They said it's a slightly different "feel", and should be noticeable, so we'll see. I do spot some external differences right off the bat which I hadn't noticed from pics alone. The front panel on my CMA800 is squared off on the sides, while the CMA800R has those angles sides which make it look even more similar to the Ayre gear (not that Ayre is the only one to do that.... it's just the first I could think of). The volume knob sicks out twice as far which I appreciate - it's now easier to grasp, and in comparison the original feels too recessed. It also has a more solid feel when turning it, like more resistance (but not too much), though I suppose that could be a byproduct of being brand new. 
  
 Anyway, I immediately see the benefit of having the pre-amp outputs. A system like mine is constantly in need for connections between sources and amps. I've always appreciated when an amp has clean, transparent pre-amp outputs that I can tap in order to connect another device. Currently have the CMA800R feeding a Parasound amp in the speaker rig, making connection much more convenient. Seems quite transparent too. 
  


lithium1085 said:


> Hi John, thanks for all the impressions and I look forward to the CMA800R as well. Coming back to the bridged dual mono design, I hope you are reviewing the nuforce HA-200 as well. I know you probably don't have time to review everything but I am keeping my fingers crossed since you have reviewed nuforce previously. Thanks again for all the great work.


 
  
 I hand't seen that one from NuForce yet. Will have to check it out. But no guarantees, since I've got a large backlog going. 
  
  


petercalv said:


> The Nuforce looks an interesting design as well. The dual mono idea seems to be catching on.
> 
> When I got my first CMA800R, I tried it using fixed output from an Eximus and then a Naim DAC. I found the sound to be better using variable output, especially from the Naim, as this added slightly more weight to the bass. With the Eximus, it added emphasis to an already wide soundstage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This. Especially considering how transparent the Questyle amps are. They definitely show the differences between DACs, more so than most any other amp I've used. They even show the differences in the same DAC, between SE and balanced output. Some DACs sound identical but some have a very distinct character where I prefer RCA or XLR out. Which makes sense - some of them use very different components in each path. So in case anyone was wondering why they Questyle allows use of the XLR inputs even when connecting a headphone through the SE output.... that's why. To give us a chance to get the best from our DACs, whatever that may be. Just like Violectric does with the V200, and Luxman does with the P-1u, etc.


----------



## yzap

I have a Yulong DA8 that I've been using as a dac/amp for the past few months, but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to actually hooking configuring a multiple piece system...
  
 I just pulled the trigger on one CMA800R and it will arrive in a few weeks. When it arrives, I'll send the output of the DA8 via two three pin xlr cables to the stereo xlr input pair on the CMA100R, make sure the CMA800R is in stereo mode, switch the DA8 to "Pure DAC" mode and I should then be all set. So, pretty simple all around, I think. Does this sound correct?
  
 But if at some point in the future I pick up a second CMA800R so I can use each of them as a mono-block, what do I need to do get the DA8 to function as a DAC + Preamp? I'll of course need to:

Switch the two CMA800R's to mono mode.
Send left xlr channel to one CMA800R and right xlr channel to the other CMA800R.
Turn volume on each CMA800R to max setting
And then how do I set up the DA8? As far as I can tell I have two (maybe three?) options:
 
A. Use "Pure DAC" mode to ignore the volume switch, which isn't what I want in this case since I want it to function as a pre-amp.
B. Have it run normally (DAC+Amp) and end up always keeping it's volume near the very low end of what it can do since I'll be leaning on the pair of CMA800R's to do the majority of the amplification?
C. Some how set the DA8 to run as a DAC+Preamp (No Amp)? I gather this would be optimal, but I'm not sure I can configure the DA8 to run this way?
  
 Or would it be preferable to use the DA8 as just a DAC in this case and get a separate dedicated pre-amp? If so, are there highly reccomended pre-amps for headphones? This is all new to me, so I'm unsure what the correct/best way to set this up is. Thanks!


----------



## project86

Initial setup sounds right to me.
  
 If you later add another CMA800R, I'd say your second option (B) is the way to go. Use the DA8 to control volume, and the CMA800R would be amplification only. Similar to adding using the DA8 to control a dedicated speaker amplifier which of course doesn't have volume control of its own. You _could_ add a dedicated pre-amp and use the DA8 in Pure mode, but unless you spend a good amount on a very high quality pre, you are likely to do more harm than good.


----------



## PETERCALV

yzap said:


> I have a Yulong DA8 that I've been using as a dac/amp for the past few months, but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to actually hooking configuring a multiple piece system...
> 
> I just pulled the trigger on one CMA800R and it will arrive in a few weeks. When it arrives, I'll send the output of the DA8 via two three pin xlr cables to the stereo xlr input pair on the CMA100R, make sure the CMA800R is in stereo mode, switch the DA8 to "Pure DAC" mode and I should then be all set. So, pretty simple all around, I think. Does this sound correct?
> 
> ...


----------



## jacal01

Most headphone amps can double as preamps, so putting a dedicated preamp between the DAC and a pair of monoblock CMA800R amps just for the volume control seems a little redundant, and most likely will add its own color and/or shortcomings into the signal train.
  
 Seems like you ideally need a DAC with just enough analog pre-amp capability for volume control to run the dual CMA800R setup.  Since none of my current desktop or home dedicated DACs have volume adjustment capability either via local knob or remote, I wonder just how prevalent such DACs with volume control are these days, or are most of these type products offered as combo DAC/(HP) amps?
  
 It might be a worthwhile exercise here to enumerate some of the current pure(?) DACs with volume control around that might be held in good esteem via user and/or reviewer recommendations.
  
 To start, and I realize this might be perceived as overkill, the MSB Analog DAC has volume control as an option.


----------



## project86

jacal01 said:


> Most headphone amps can double as preamps, so putting a dedicated preamp between the DAC and a pair of monoblock CMA800R amps just for the volume control seems a little redundant, and most likely will add its own color and/or shortcomings into the signal train.
> 
> Seems like you ideally need a DAC with just enough analog pre-amp capability for volume control to run the dual CMA800R setup.  Since none of my current desktop or home dedicated DACs have volume adjustment capability either via local knob or remote, I wonder just how prevalent such DACs with volume control are these days, or are most of these type products offered as combo DAC/(HP) amps?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yeah, adding a preamp for volume control seems like it would only make sense in the context of a bigger system. Like, say, working the CMA800R monoblocks into a larger speaker based rig. But in that case one likely already has a pre anyway.
  
 There does seem to be a correlation between DACs with volume control and those with integrated headphone stages. But don't let that shorten your list - some great DACs have headphone amps on board, but you can just ignore that part if you want. I'd say the new Benchmark DAC 2 is worth looking at, the Anedio D2, Wadia 121, Yulong DA8, Resonessence Labs Invicta, and the Grace M903 (among many others). Models with volume control but no headphone stage include the Resonessence Invicta Mirus, NuForce DAC-80, MSB Analog, SOtM sDP-1000, Onkyo P3000R, NAD M51, the Perreaux Audient DP32..... and many more I'm sure.


----------



## jacal01

Nice list, and prolly fairly exhaustive to boot, but if one were to lay in such a DAC/amp mostly just to support the CMA800R dual mono configuration, which one(s) would you perceive as the biggest bang for the buck, or at least without introducing significant deterioration of SQ, such as signal distortion or diminished staging, which would kind of defeat the purpose of the dual monoblocks? Your Yulong DA8, such as yzap referred to?  And you'd probably need to multi-task such a component in your audio set-up, anyway, just to justify the additional purchase.
  
 It would almost seem preferable to try to balance the channels just using the two CMA800R onboard volume knobs, so that you don't introduce additional sound influence or weak link with another amp upstream, especially since the preponderance of them use voltage controlled signal gain. 
  
 EDIT:  To answer my own question, the Yulong DA8 and Nuforce DAC-80 seem to be the only ones on your list that are cost effective as a front-end DAC/volume control component addition for the dual CMA800R monoblock configuration.  I would just hope that they would at least hold service for allowing the dual CMA800R sonic attributes to be well displayed. 
  
 Altho as an end game set-up, cost is no object, eh?


----------



## JeffA

Berkeley Alpha DAC would be a perfect choice. Superb DAC. Superb analog output stage and very well implemented volume control. It is also a balanced design optimized for XLR output, which would make a great feed to XLR monos. Great reviews, and has had high resale value as well. Very much in demand in the audiophile world.


----------



## project86

jacal01 said:


> Nice list, and prolly fairly exhaustive to boot, but if one were to lay in such a DAC/amp mostly just to support the CMA800R dual mono configuration, which one(s) would you perceive as the biggest bang for the buck, or at least without introducing significant deterioration of SQ, such as signal distortion or diminished staging, which would kind of defeat the purpose of the dual monoblocks? Your Yulong DA8, such as yzap referred to?  And you'd probably need to multi-task such a component in your audio set-up, anyway, just to justify the additional purchase.
> 
> It would almost seem preferable to try to balance the channels just using the two CMA800R onboard volume knobs, so that you don't introduce additional sound influence or weak link with another amp upstream, especially since the preponderance of them use voltage controlled signal gain.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I only listed stuff which I can confirm is really impressive, or in a few cases have it on very good authority from friends. Of my list I choose the Invicta which is what I use as a reference (planning to upgrade to the Invicta Mirus soon). But the Anedio D2 and NAD M51 are also very, very capable. The Yulong DA8 is quite good as well, though it does impart a subtle warmth that may not be appreciated if one is searching for ultimate transparency. I've heard similar about the MSB Analog - it sounds great, but maybe makes everything more enjoyable than it really should (if that makes any sense at all). 
  
 I'm not sure why you chose the Yulong and the NuForce as the only two.... both are good, but so are the others on my list. I just remembered the Nuforce has SE outputs only, so you'd lose the "true balanced" configuration. Might still be nice though, as we've heard prior from the user running the Naim DAC. 
  
 Endgame, cost no object setup? For me, probably Invicta Mirus driving dual CMA800R with an HD800. Will try that soon enough and advise!
  
  


jeffa said:


> Berkeley Alpha DAC would be a perfect choice. Superb DAC. Superb analog output stage and very well implemented volume control. It is also a balanced design optimized for XLR output, which would make a great feed to XLR monos. Great reviews, and has had high resale value as well. Very much in demand in the audiophile world.


 
  
 The Berkeley is very nice as well. I forgot about it for some reason. I got a press release from them recently which I only briefly skimmed over, but it mentioned (and pictured) their new Reference Series DAC. Might just be the same as their current model but with a more fancy case.... and it would still rock. I think they finally realized the audiophile market is probably bigger for them than the studio professional.


----------



## yzap

Thanks for all the advice everyone!
  
 For the time being, my setup will be as I previously mentioned:
 Yulong DA8 (in Pure Dac mode) >> 1 CMA800R >> HD800
  
 And I won't have to worry any little bit about pre-amping since I'll let the CMA800R take care of that. That'll keep happy for quite some time, I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But at some point, I know that the urge to buy more gear will get the better of me (probably after Project86 writes his dual CMA800R monoblock review) and I'll eventually pick up another CMA800R. At that point, I'll do just what Project86 reccomended and hook up the DA8 straight into the monoblocks and use the DA8's headphone amp as a preamp. On a side note, Project86, if you could test the DA8 with the mono-blocks when they eventually both arrive, I would be eternally greatful! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Using the DA8's headphone stage as a preamp will most assuredly sound great, but I'll probably always be wondering how it would sound if I was using a DAC that had a volume control only preamp instead of a full headphone amp to do the pre-amping. That being said, I don't think I'll be able to justify spending ~$5k on the Invicta Mira for that sort of setup for many years to come, hehe.


----------



## yzap

Oh, I've also got a few other newbie questions.
  
 What's the difference in implementation between just a "volume control" and a headphone amp stage on a DAC? I'm guessing "volume control" is just a preamp while the headphone stage would include both a preamp and an amplifier? 
  
 Also, in general, if one uses a headphone amp as a preamp instead of a simple volume control, I'm guessing this is going to result in more of the headphone amp's sound signature coming through when compared the signature of a simple volume control which would probably be more transparent? Or since the headphone amp would be run at such low levels in this case, that it would be mostly transparent too?


----------



## project86

There's a bit of confusion there, because you aren't using the DA8 _headphone amp_ as a preamp. The DA8 has variable line outputs, which is also referred to as preamp capabilities. Then it also has a headphone amp. The former uses XLR or RCA jacks on the back panel, while the latter is tied to the 1/4" jack on the front. The confusing part is that both are tied together - activated or disabled by pushing the knob, and controlled by turning it. But they really are separate things.
  
 In some preamps and/or headphone amps, an analog potentiometer is used to control volume. Or sometimes it's a different form of analog volume control, such as a resistor ladder network. In other cases the solution happens in the digital domain. Which is what happens in the DA8 - they use the internal volume control function of the ESS Sabre DAC chip itself. Each method has positive and negative attributes, and it's really up to the end user if they are satisfied with what they have. I've heard good and bad examples of both types so I'm not biased either way.


----------



## jacal01

project86 said:


> I only listed stuff which I can confirm is really impressive, or in a few cases have it on very good authority from friends. Of my list I choose the Invicta which is what I use as a reference (planning to upgrade to the Invicta Mirus soon). But the Anedio D2 and NAD M51 are also very, very capable. The Yulong DA8 is quite good as well, though it does impart a subtle warmth that may not be appreciated if one is searching for ultimate transparency. I've heard similar about the MSB Analog - it sounds great, but maybe makes everything more enjoyable than it really should (if that makes any sense at all).
> 
> I'm not sure why you chose the Yulong and the NuForce as the only two.... both are good, but so are the others on my list. I just remembered the Nuforce has SE outputs only, so you'd lose the "true balanced" configuration. Might still be nice though, as we've heard prior from the user running the Naim DAC.
> 
> Endgame, cost no object setup? For me, probably Invicta Mirus driving dual CMA800R with an HD800. Will try that soon enough and advise!


 
  
 I mainly selected the Yulong and Nuforce based on their cost, without diving too deep into the technical details.  My thinking was that you're largely looking for an upstream volume control knob for the dual CMA800R amps, and that spending as much or more than what the twin monoblocks cost kinda inverts the priority of that one function.
  
 However, if the component cost can be mostly attributed to a DAC upgrade, then comparative costs become secondary to what you consider your end game strategy on technical merits alone.
  
 I've also done some more thinking on what role the dual monoblock CMA800R would play now in a pre-amp configuration.  Since we're not talking about the pe-amp being the prelude to a high power output amp for speakers, but more like two successive headphone amps in series, with the first (pre)amp just as likely to influence the final sound as much as the final amp(s), then maybe we can consider the dual monoblock CMA800R configuration as just the finishing or polishing amp to the final headphone input sound.  Adding an additional layer of space and clarity to the sonic detail, so to speak.  Now that might be a worthwhile augmentation to your headphone music, no matter how good, both in SQ and/or sufficient headphone driving power, your first amp in the audio output sequence is by itself alone.
  
 As you know, I already have a superb Krell Phantom pre-amp with a SE headphone outlet, that implements current driven amplification circuitry consistent with the sonic advantages offered by the Questyle topology.  So there shouldn't be any significant upstream signal degradation to mask the benefits which might be gained by the dual monoblock CMA800R amp configuration.  And the Krell happens to have an XLR output available which I could now input into a pair of CMA800Rs, so that if nothing else, I can now realize a balanced headphone output out of the Krell, independent of whatever additional microclarity I may be able to achieve from the Questyle amps' signal processing.  Kinda an expensive way of adding an balanced headphone outlet to the Krell, I will admit.
  
 But that conceptual promise seems somewhat exciting to me, although I think I dread the cost of the amps interconnect and headphone XLR balanced cables more than the upgrade to dual CMA800R amps.  I wonder what kind of trade-in Alden would give me on my CMA800?


----------



## project86

I see both sides - yes, spending a lot for that one function (volume control) seems kinda odd. And I suppose it _is _odd, if you already have a nice DAC and a single CMA800R. You add another CMA800R (which isn't exactly pocket change) and all of a sudden you need to spend big bucks on a simple volume control? Then again, we _are_ talking end-game systems here, so I guess spending a decent amount is just par for the course. 
  
 It maybe helps that DACs are progressing so rapidly. So if you maybe own a DAC from a few years back, with no volume functionality, it might be a worthwhile upgrade anyway. Get something newer and better than your current DAC, and the volume control probably comes as a bonus. 
  
 As you know, the single CMA800 is already VERY good at showing the true colors of a source component. I can only imagine the dual monoblock setup taking it that much farther. So I guess spending big bucks on it doesn't seem so unreasonable. If one was determined to build the best HD800 rig they could, I'd think this was a very viable option. I'd think your Krell would be an ideal pairing if you ever pick up the monos. Definitely worth an email to Alden if you think it might be a road you want to try. 
  
 I wouldn't worry too much about the cable side of it though. You can do quite well for yourself without spending obscene amounts. There are plenty of options out there which won't break the bank - I can have any cables I want, yet I choose relatively affordable stuff from Cabledyne, Toxic Cables, Charleston Cable Co, CablePro, etc. These small firms have exceptional designs and customer service too, without need a second mortgage. Give me those any day compared to Nordost or Shunyata etc.


----------



## Sanlitun

Mine is here today, sooner than expected. I'm going to unplug my Burson and warm it up, and then rummage around to look for my balanced interconnects.


----------



## project86

sanlitun said:


> Mine is here today, sooner than expected. I'm going to unplug my Burson and warm it up, and then rummage around to look for my balanced interconnects.


 
  
  
 Faster than expected shipping is always a nice surprise. Let us know what you think, once you log some hours on it.


----------



## rattesp

Received mine 3 days ago. I'm really impressed so far. Incredible synergy with the HD800 although I'm a bit disapointed with the T1. They are my favorite cans but with the CMA800R the HD800 sound so much better to my ears. When you switch from the HD800 to the T1 it goes from hifi to mid-fi in a second !?! It's strange because with all my previous amps (B22, Soloist, LD MKVI+, V200, WA2, Mjolnir) I prefered the T1. I don't have my B22 anymore and I haven't done a serious side by side comparison with my Soloist but from memory, they are no match for the CMA800R with the HD800.
  
 But the biggest surprise for me was the HD650. I've never been a big fan of them but with the CMA800R they sound very very good. By far the best sound I ever heard from them. In fact, with the CMA800R I prefer the HD650 to the T1 !  
  
 Build quality is excellent, very impressive. 
  
 Anyone noticed a difference between the RCA and XLR input ?


----------



## 00lunar

Nope, at least in short term. AFAIK there shouldn't be any, as XLR inputs are desymetrized anyway, those are just for comfort of listener, i.e. if DAC has XLR's only, or its XLR's are better sounding. Had my chat with project86 and he was kind enough to tell me that. Single XLR input for monos asaide, of course. And yes CMA800R is incredible with HD 800. Bakoon'ish sound signature and current amplification really does its trick to my ears. I have Audio-Gd Phoenix, and something tells me this piece is going away, was outperformed by CMA800R, and not by a small margin.
  
 Cheers,
 00L


----------



## project86

rattesp said:


> Received mine 3 days ago. I'm really impressed so far. Incredible synergy with the HD800 although I'm a bit disapointed with the T1. They are my favorite cans but with the CMA800R the HD800 sound so much better to my ears. When you switch from the HD800 to the T1 it goes from hifi to mid-fi in a second !?! It's strange because with all my previous amps (B22, Soloist, LD MKVI+, V200, WA2, Mjolnir) I prefered the T1. I don't have my B22 anymore and I haven't done a serious side by side comparison with my Soloist but from memory, they are no match for the CMA800R with the HD800.
> 
> But the biggest surprise for me was the HD650. I've never been a big fan of them but with the CMA800R they sound very very good. By far the best sound I ever heard from them. In fact, with the CMA800R I prefer the HD650 to the T1 !
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Imho, you've discovered the true nature of the T1. It sounds wonderful with a lot of amps, but when you get to the cold, hard truth of it with a brutally neutral amp like the Questyle..... it just doesn't sound all that great. I agree with you and much prefer the T1 from my Violectric V200, or the Icon Audio HP8, or the Analog Design Labs Svetlana II. If I use the CMA800 or to a lesser extent the AURALiC Taurus mkII, the T1 shows its true colors - and I don't care for it.
  
 I think I prefer the Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 over the Questyle or AURALiC with the T1. Yes, it's way way cheaper, but the signature is a better match.


----------



## Moonhead

Questyle sounds to good to be true, anyway think i will be cancelling my order on Auralic and get Questyle instead. 
 After all my favourite headphone are HD800 and are on the way.


----------



## SteveM324

John,

How does the CMA800R compare to the V200 on high sensitivity/low impedance headphones like the LA7000? I may pick up another closed headphone like the Alpha Dog or the LCD-XC in the future. Any experience which amp would be better? Thanks.


----------



## jacal01

I'm not John, but since the CMA800 voltage output is supposedly optimized for high impedance headphones such as the HD 800, I'm not sure that the low impedance headphones would excel in this setup.  I've used TH900 at 25Ω with the CMA800 to good effect, but I don't think that those headphones are a good basis for comparison, since they have their own sound signature by far and away, altho they may be close enough via the Denon sound for a valid comparison with the LA7000.  I'm sure that John has audited a much larger scope of HPs vs. amps, anyway, so his response should be much more cogent.
  
 My current CMA800 match fave is the LCD-2.2 at 65Ω.  They've never sounded so good, but that may be more about power than impedance matching. I've got a pair of T5p at 35Ω around, but somehow they've not managed to come out of their case of late, since I'm having so much success with the forementioned 3 headphones above with my current amp setups.  And concerning rattesp's T1 comments, I'm not sure if if they're ever gonna.


----------



## Carlsan

I'll try it with the LCD-3's and the HE-6's after I setup the balanced mono block.
 Just got the two in today but unfortunately have to be at work tonight until late.
  
 Shame about the T-1's, wonder if they got balanced if that would make any difference.


----------



## rattesp

The T1 are not horrible with the CMA800R. But they are not great either.  It's just that the HD800 sounds so much better. It's disturbing for me since I've always prefered the T1. I'll have to do a serious comparison with the T1/Soloist combo to be sure I'm not crazy !


----------



## mcullinan

Mine arrives today along with Senn HD650s. I also have Senn 598s.  Ill let you guys know what I think! My dac is a Yulong DA8.


----------



## Carlsan

rattesp said:


> The T1 are not horrible with the CMA800R. But they are not great either.  It's just that the HD800 sounds so much better. It's disturbing for me since I've always prefered the T1. I'll have to do a serious comparison with the T1/Soloist combo to be sure I'm not crazy !


 
  
 The Soloist T1 combo is a killer.  T1 was my favorite headphone with the Soloist. 
 Makes me regret selling off my Soloist


----------



## project86

stevem324 said:


> John,
> 
> How does the CMA800R compare to the V200 on high sensitivity/low impedance headphones like the LA7000? I may pick up another closed headphone like the Alpha Dog or the LCD-XC in the future. Any experience which amp would be better? Thanks.


 
  
 It's close, but I think I prefer V200 in that case. Not that the Questyle is bad, but rather by virtue of the V200 being so damn good. Drop the pre-gain settings to -6dB or even -12dB and get ready for a black background and precise volume control. 
  
 That said, CMA800(R) is still in the upper echelon for that type of headphone. There's not much else that beats it - V200, maybe AURALiC Taurus.... can't think of any others right now. 
  
  


jacal01 said:


> I'm not John, but since the CMA800 voltage output is supposedly optimized for high impedance headphones such as the HD 800, I'm not sure that the low impedance headphones would excel in this setup.  I've used TH900 at 25Ω with the CMA800 to good effect, but I don't think that those headphones are a good basis for comparison, since they have their own sound signature by far and away, altho they may be close enough via the Denon sound for a valid comparison with the LA7000.  I'm sure that John has audited a much larger scope of HPs vs. amps, anyway, so his response should be much more cogent.
> 
> My current CMA800 match fave is the LCD-2.2 at 65Ω.  They've never sounded so good, but that may be more about power than impedance matching. I've got a pair of T5p at 35Ω around, but somehow they've not managed to come out of their case of late, since I'm having so much success with the forementioned 3 headphones above with my current amp setups.  And concerning rattesp's T1 comments, I'm not sure if if they're ever gonna.


 
  
 What he said!
  
 Seriously, Questyle does seem to have built this thing for higher impedance models. Again, not that low impedance performance is lacking, but HD800 is just sooooooo well done. The CMA800(R) has an output impedance below 1 ohm, plenty of power, etc, so it's got everything in place to do really well with most any headphone.
  
 T5p would probably sound kinda thin and bright, which is seemingly what beyer had in mind when they voiced it. Or maybe they intended it for use with their own amps which have 100 ohm output impedance, thus giving T5p more warmth (but less control). 
  
  


carlsan said:


> I'll try it with the LCD-3's and the HE-6's after I setup the balanced mono block.
> Just got the two in today but unfortunately have to be at work tonight until late.
> 
> Shame about the T-1's, wonder if they got balanced if that would make any difference.


 
  
 Probably not. I really do think the T1 needs a colored amp to sound good. Maybe not massively colored, but at least to some small degree. The Questyle is just too honest. 
  


mcullinan said:


> Mine arrives today along with Senn HD650s. I also have Senn 598s.  Ill let you guys know what I think! My dac is a Yulong DA8.


 
  
 Cool! Keep us updated.


----------



## 00lunar

Got Q192 for tests, which is WM8740 DAC + current mode amplification combo, it's around 649$. I'm suprised how well this thing also sounds with HD 800. CMA800R is still better, but similarities in sound signature are significant.


----------



## jacal01

project86 said:


> I see both sides - yes, spending a lot for that one function (volume control) seems kinda odd. And I suppose it _is _odd, if you already have a nice DAC and a single CMA800R. You add another CMA800R (which isn't exactly pocket change) and all of a sudden you need to spend big bucks on a simple volume control? Then again, we _are_ talking end-game systems here, so I guess spending a decent amount is just par for the course.
> 
> It maybe helps that DACs are progressing so rapidly. So if you maybe own a DAC from a few years back, with no volume functionality, it might be a worthwhile upgrade anyway. Get something newer and better than your current DAC, and the volume control probably comes as a bonus.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm rethinking my dual CMA800R upgrade... does seems like so much excessive cost per diminishing returns for the rather dubious advantages of balanced mono vs. SE.  Every time I listen to my Krell I think, "What XLR?"  Likewise with my CMA800 and LCD-2s.  There are definitely 2 schools of thought out there about dedicated signal channel grounds, and I really don't feel it'd be worth the cost involved.  Can't get over the hump, at any rate, unless I hear/see some convincing argument besides 'du jour'.  You know?
  
 Anyways, I'm very keen on your review of the dual monoblock CMA800R config update, if and when it happens, before I'd contemplate pulling the trigger, I think.  Or perhaps some others comparisons here, once they've had the dual CMA800R configuration in place awhile. 
  
 Heh.  Nordost, check. Tara Labs, check. MIT Cables, check.  Voodoo Cables, check...  I do think my Double Helix Clone LCD-2.2 headphone cables are first rate, tho.


----------



## lost&confused

Hi guys,
 Is there any information or reviews on the CMR600 model.....how longs it been out?  I wonder how it sounds to the model you guys . Whats the difference in design and stuff,  I've looked online but no1 is selling it
 Really interested in this


----------



## project86

00lunar said:


> Got Q192 for tests, which is WM8740 DAC + current mode amplification combo, it's around 649$. I'm suprised how well this thing also sounds with HD 800. CMA800R is still better, but similarities in sound signature are significant.


 
  
  
 Yep, it's really something isn't it? I've got it on desktop duty, as DAC and preamp for some Adam Audio F5 monitors. It is very strong as a preamp - very neutral and linear. Even the knob feels premium as it moves. The amp section is surprisingly good too. I've been using it with HD800 a bit and it does a fine job, but I need to do some more listening on those. Works well with IEMs though - maybe better than CMA800(R) thanks to lower gain. Output impedance is .5 ohm or maybe less, so no problems there.
  
  


jacal01 said:


> I'm rethinking my dual CMA800R upgrade... does seems like so much excessive cost per diminishing returns for the rather dubious advantages of balanced mono vs. SE.  Every time I listen to my Krell I think, "What XLR?"  Likewise with my CMA800 and LCD-2s.  There are definitely 2 schools of thought out there about dedicated signal channel grounds, and I really don't feel it'd be worth the cost involved.  Can't get over the hump, at any rate, unless I hear/see some convincing argument besides 'du jour'.  You know?
> 
> Anyways, I'm very keen on your review of the dual monoblock CMA800R config update, if and when it happens, before I'd contemplate pulling the trigger, I think.  Or perhaps some others comparisons here, once they've had the dual CMA800R configuration in place awhile.
> 
> Heh.  Nordost, check. Tara Labs, check. MIT Cables, check.  Voodoo Cables, check...  I do think my Double Helix Clone LCD-2.2 headphone cables are first rate, tho.


 
  
 I can see that. It's not cheap and it will require some serious benefits before I can comfortably recommend it. 
  
  


lost&confused said:


> Hi guys,
> Is there any information or reviews on the CMR600 model.....how longs it been out?  I wonder how it sounds to the model you guys . Whats the difference in design and stuff,  I've looked online but no1 is selling it
> Really interested in this


 
  
  
 Questyle told me they are focusing on the CMA800R, the CAS192 DAC, and the Q192 integrated unit. The CMA600 and CAS192 mini are kind of on the back burner for now. I guess it makes sense to focus on your affordable multi-purpose model, and then your flagship gear, rather than the middle of the road stuff.


----------



## Sanlitun

Looks like there are a couple of new reviews happening. 
  
Get ready for the 6 Moons Review here and there is another review in Polish here. Some nice pictures on the last one.


----------



## project86

sanlitun said:


> Looks like there are a couple of new reviews happening.
> 
> Get ready for the 6 Moons Review here and there is another review in Polish here. Some nice pictures on the last one. 
  
 Yeah it should be interesting to see what Srajan has to say. I predict a mellifluous convergence of imaging specificity and top-down fluidity, circumscribed by exuberant physicality.
  
  
  
 Or something like that.


----------



## 00lunar

project86 said:


> Yeah it should be interesting to see what Srajan has to say. I predict a mellifluous convergence of imaging specificity and top-down fluidity, circumscribed by exuberant physicality.
> 
> 
> 
> Or something like that.


 

 He told me the same, exact thing when I told him about CMA800R :E
  
 Though, he corrected, that HPA-21 has one current output, and CMA800R has only voltage ones, even though they both have current based amplifier circuits. So those devices aren't quite the same beasts.


----------



## project86

00lunar said:


> He told me the same, exact thing when I told him about CMA800R :E
> 
> Though, he corrected, that HPA-21 has one current output, and CMA800R has only voltage ones, even though they both have current based amplifier circuits. So those devices aren't quite the same beasts.


 
  
  
 You were quoted in his first page! You're famous!


----------



## mcullinan

project86 said:


> Yeah it should be interesting to see what Srajan has to say. I predict a mellifluous convergence of imaging specificity and top-down fluidity, circumscribed by exuberant physicality.
> 
> 
> 
> Or something like that.



Hahaha hes so great! I think he def can get on peoples nerves but i enjoy his writing style.

Btw I read the Polish review through Google translate! And pretty much agree with what hes hearing, though Im using the HD650s and Yulong DA8 as Dac.


----------



## 00lunar

mcullinan said:


> Hahaha hes so great! I think he def can get on peoples nerves but i enjoy his writing style.
> 
> Btw I read the Polish review through Google translate! And pretty much agree with what hes hearing, though Im using the HD650s and Yulong DA8 as Dac.


 
  
 CMA800R is excellent in my book and at this point I'm really curious what Questyle will do next. But, to be honest, some visual things I'd change. The only real downside for me are screws on top of that device, those look ugly IMO. The same thing is with Q192. Also aluminum buttons, such as the ones in Questyle flagship DAC would look nicer than knobs, even though those work perfectly. And black colouring is something I'd really like to see in the future. But those things aren't dealbreakers. And regarding SQ, well, some of those lucky CMA800R owners will agree, that they got more than they payed for. Current amplification really is something, at least that's what my ears are telling me for couple weeks now. Need to grab HPA-21 and do some comparing.    
  


project86 said:


> You were quoted in his first page! You're famous!


 

 Haha, that's why I like 6moons owner, Srajan doesn't hide background of his findings for himself, quoting others is a nice touch indeed.


----------



## Sanlitun

I have had a great week with this thing but I am not prepared to drink the kool-aid just yet. This weekend I am going to swap my Burson and other amps back in and try to make some sense of what I am hearing.
  
 I agree there are some fit and finish issues with the screws on the top and the front toggle switches. If it sounds good I couldn't care what it looks like, but others will not be so forgiving.


----------



## project86

I can see wanting the top to be more sleek without the screws. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like visible screws here and there. Makes things look, I dunno.... tough. Or something like that. I have no problem with the toggle switches either. I guess the whole thing just "works" for me.


----------



## 00lunar

project86 said:


> I can see wanting the top to be more sleek without the screws. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like visible screws here and there. Makes things look, I dunno.... tough. Or something like that. I have no problem with the toggle switches either. I guess the whole thing just "works" for me.


 
  
 Aye, those things are subjective matters. Some people couldn't care less about them. But I pay lots of attention to stuff I have in my listening/working man cave. And the world goes on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Maybe I'd change my mind about the screws if those were octagonal shaped, a bit bigger and chasis alike in terms of colouring, who knows... well, my job is to find stuff I dislike, even if it's subjective. But in terms of looks NuForce with their fairly new devices did it right. Just had AVP-18 on my hands today, job well done, much nicer than their DAC-9, REF 9 V3SE or similar stuff.
  
 Take a look here: http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/05/07/10541038/IMG_8023.jpg
  
 But their flagship monos are great in terms of their looks. I'd like to have those one day.


sanlitun said:


> I have had a great week with this thing but I am not prepared to drink the kool-aid just yet. This weekend I am going to swap my Burson and other amps back in and try to make some sense of what I am hearing.
> 
> I agree there are some fit and finish issues with the screws on the top and the front toggle switches. If it sounds good I couldn't care what it looks like, but others will not be so forgiving.


 

 Agreed, I have been FOTM victim here too many times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Let us know how it went, I'm curious what others have to say.


----------



## project86

00lunar said:


> Aye, those things are subjective matters. Some people couldn't care less about them. But I pay lots of attention to stuff I have in my listening/working man cave. And the world goes on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 NuForce does the design thing well - I love their DAC-100/STA-100/HAP-100/etc models. Very nice looking, minimalist, and they stack beautifully. 
  
 As for Questyle I'm just glad they got rid of the spiky feet on the CMA800R update. Though they did include them in the box in case we want to use them....


----------



## 00lunar

project86 said:


> NuForce does the design thing well - I love their DAC-100/STA-100/HAP-100/etc models. Very nice looking, minimalist, and they stack beautifully.
> 
> As for Questyle I'm just glad they got rid of the spiky feet on the CMA800R update. Though they did include them in the box in case we want to use them....


 

 True, not very safe to mount them without plates below, overall troublesome for some users. I like spikes though, they give decks more hi-fi looks, anti vibrating stuff aside. As for round feet in CMA800R, well, I'm glad those are aluminum, not plastic. It's a small thing, but unusual.


----------



## project86

00lunar said:


> True, not very safe to mount them without plates below, overall troublesome for some users. I like spikes though, they give decks more hi-fi looks, anti vibrating stuff aside. As for round feet in CMA800R, well, I'm glad those are aluminum, not plastic. It's a small thing, but unusual.


 
  
  
 Yeah I like having the option of either type. Btw they even give both with the more affordable Q192 unit. Pretty cool I think.


----------



## mcullinan

The greatest thing about the Questyle at this moment is I have my 7 yr old son listening on my 598s and Im listening on the 650s... almost brings a tear to my eye 
 Listening to a lil Burning Spear...


----------



## EraserXIV

sanlitun said:


> I have had a great week with this thing but I am not prepared to drink the kool-aid just yet. This weekend I am going to swap my Burson and other amps back in and try to make some sense of what I am hearing.
> 
> I agree there are some fit and finish issues with the screws on the top and the front toggle switches. If it sounds good I couldn't care what it looks like, but others will not be so forgiving.




Looking forward to seeing what you have to say. I try to usually let the dust settle too before jumping on a FOTM gear. But it's been really hard practicing some self control. The Crack was perfect for the HD650 and is still VERY good for the HD800, but I'm starting to see some of its limitations with the HD800 and I'm looking at getting a better solid state for it. Had my eye on this one as well as the Taurus, upcoming Ragnarok, GSX, and Master 9.

Also would like something with flexibility with orthos as I have actually found myself listening to the Maddogs quite often. Any other suggestions?


----------



## project86

mcullinan said:


> The greatest thing about the Questyle at this moment is I have my 7 yr old son listening on my 598s and Im listening on the 650s... almost brings a tear to my eye
> Listening to a lil Burning Spear...


 
  
  
 Awesome! Nothing like including your kids in your hobby - especially when it involves imparting a love of music during their formative years. I try to spend time with them just listening to various songs, whenever I get a chance. It's so interesting to see what they end up liking or not liking. 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  


eraserxiv said:


> Looking forward to seeing what you have to say. I try to usually let the dust settle too before jumping on a FOTM gear. But it's been really hard practicing some self control. The Crack was perfect for the HD650 and is still VERY good for the HD800, but I'm starting to see some of its limitations with the HD800 and I'm looking at getting a better solid state for it. Had my eye on this one as well as the Taurus, upcoming Ragnarok, GSX, and Master 9.
> 
> Also would like something with flexibility with orthos as I have actually found myself listening to the Maddogs quite often. Any other suggestions?


 
  
  
 As much as I love the Questyle, I do think AURALiC Taurus is the better option if planars are your weapon of choice. CMA800R wins with HD800 though, and some others too. I'd choose them or the GS-X before the Master 9.... not exactly sure why though.


----------



## 00lunar

My son is too young to put headphones on his head (7 months), but I have no doubt that passion for music is something he'll in 100% get from me. I believe that's one of the best things I can give him, no matter how cheesy this may sound


----------



## Carlsan

project86 said:


> I received a single CMA800R to compare to the original CMA800. Questyle will send along another CMA800R down the road, to evaluate the balanced dual mono capability. I was under the impression that the 800 should sound very, very similar to the 800R version, but they tell me it is more different than I would have expected. We'll see.


 
  
 Did you ever get a chance to compare the two?


----------



## hydesg

how is the pairing with the Yulong DA8?
 I am considering replacing my WA7 with the CMA800R x 2.


----------



## 00lunar

To me CMA800R is very transparent, therefore it'll show sound signature of the source quite clearly. So I guess it depends on the rest of your rig if DA8 is the right choice.


----------



## project86

carlsan said:


> Did you ever get a chance to compare the two?


 
  
 Yep, working on that now. I'll write up some thoughts when I'm done.
  
 So far it seems like minor but worthwhile changes - character is the same, just a slight improvement with the R version. Which is impressive because the original is already so darn good. 
  


hydesg said:


> how is the pairing with the Yulong DA8?
> I am considering replacing my WA7 with the CMA800R x 2.


 
  
 The single CMA800R with DA8 is a fine combination. Slightly less detailed than Questyle's own CAS192 DAC, with a bit more musicality and "bounce" for lack of a better word. I enjoy the pairing very much. Can't yet say how dual CMA800R would improve on the situation.


----------



## PETERCALV

project86 said:


> Yep, working on that now. I'll write up some thoughts when I'm done.
> 
> So far it seems like minor but worthwhile changes - character is the same, just a slight improvement with the R version. Which is impressive because the original is already so darn good.
> 
> ...


 

 According to Alden at Questyle, they are working on an updated version of their CAS192 DAC to include DSD. This should also make for an interesting partnership with the CMA800R. Up to now, I have tried the CMA800R with the Eximus, Naim DAC and the recent Teac DAC. Impressive listening with all three.


----------



## project86

petercalv said:


> According to Alden at Questyle, they are working on an updated version of their CAS192 DAC to include DSD. This should also make for an interesting partnership with the CMA800R. Up to now, I have tried the CMA800R with the Eximus, Naim DAC and the recent Teac DAC. Impressive listening with all three.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I feel like sort of a guinea pig since the Questyle gear I have for review is all becoming outdated by now, due to upgrades. The CMA800 is obviously superseded by the CMA800R. The CAS192 is getting DSD support and possibly volume control - that part is not confirmed, but it would make sense if people need it to control their dual CMA800R setup. Lastly, the Q192 is supposed to get DSD support as well. 
  
 Regardless, I'd say the original models give me 90+ percent of the final picture. And it's a beautiful picture indeed!


----------



## asket

I'm sorry for bad english. I'm interesting in this amp.
 What is the maximum output power (watt) from the amplifier on 50 Ohms (Hifiman HE-6) if to use two devices in dual mono?
 It is in pure balanced mode if to use only one device?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Sanlitun

petercalv said:


> According to Alden at Questyle, they are working on an updated version of their CAS192 DAC to include DSD.


 
  
 In some ways I am not too happy to hear this as I would hope they would try to resist the current DSD hype and just develop the products they think sound best. The wm8741 they use does support DSD so perhaps they can implement it without changing too much.
  
 I've never really enjoyed DSD and I can't really figure out where the interest is coming from considering (IMHO) modern hi-res PCM and DXD sound better.


----------



## project86

asket said:


> I'm sorry for bad english. I'm interesting in this amp.
> What is the maximum output power (watt) from the amplifier on 50 Ohms (Hifiman HE-6) if to use two devices in dual mono?
> It is in pure balanced mode if to use only one device?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 The original CMA800 does 700mW into a 64 ohm load, and 1100mW into a 32 ohm load. So the HiFiMAN HE-6 should fall somewhere in between, close to a full watt per channel. I'm not sure what the CMA800R in balanced mode would be - probably double that, or more. 
  
 Using a single CMA800 or CMA800R already sounds very good with HE-6. It's not balanced, of course, but it sounds exceptional nonetheless. 
  


sanlitun said:


> In some ways I am not too happy to hear this as I would hope they would try to resist the current DSD hype and just develop the products they think sound best. The wm8741 they use does support DSD so perhaps they can implement it without changing too much.
> 
> I've never really enjoyed DSD and I can't really figure out where the interest is coming from considering (IMHO) modern hi-res PCM and DXD sound better.


 
  
  
 Check out the recent CES and T.H.E. Show coverage - for better or worse, if you don't offer DSD, people won't take you seriously.
  
 That said, Questyle already developed the gear to stand on its own. Then DSD came along as a mandatory feature, and Questyle can add that easily enough. But the main focus was already in place.


----------



## Sanlitun

project86 said:


> Check out the recent CES and T.H.E. Show coverage - for better or worse, if you don't offer DSD, people won't take you seriously.


 
  
 Yeah it seems to be marketing hype at its worst. Even Schiit has a DSD product now and I suppose they have to do it just to be able to answer yes to the DSD question.
  
 I still have my Sony SCD-XA777ES SACD player and about 50 SACD's stored away from 2003. At that time at least it was one of the two only hi-res alternatives to 44.1k, but it's hard to see the point of it now. Especially seeing as that everything is from a PCM or analog source anyways. From a 2014 perspective I just see DSD as being compressed DXD or other hi-res PCM. For me it's weird to see DSD making a comeback now as it had pretty much been a dead tech for so long.
  
 Anyways I wanted to comment on this as I think it's clear that Questyle has a couple of really great products going and I hope they don't muddy the waters too much by trying to please everyone and include every superfluous feature.


----------



## PETERCALV

sanlitun said:


> Yeah it seems to be marketing hype at its worst. Even Schiit has a DSD product now and I suppose they have to do it just to be able to answer yes to the DSD question.
> 
> I still have my Sony SCD-XA777ES SACD player and about 50 SACD's stored away from 2003. At that time at least it was one of the two only hi-res alternatives to 44.1k, but it's hard to see the point of it now. Especially seeing as that everything is from a PCM or analog source anyways. From a 2014 perspective I just see DSD as being compressed DXD or other hi-res PCM. For me it's weird to see DSD making a comeback now as it had pretty much been a dead tech for so long.
> 
> Anyways I wanted to comment on this as I think it's clear that Questyle has a couple of really great products going and I hope they don't muddy the waters too much by trying to please everyone and include every superfluous feature.


 

 I totally agree with your comments. I also used to have that Sony SACD, but sold it a very long time ago.
  
 Initially, my plan was to buy the Questyle CAS192, and use a passive preamp to control my two CMA800R amps, but was told by Alden that they had stopped making it. Therefore, I was not prepared to pay £1200 for a discontinued product. Now, if I want a Questyle DAC, I will have to pay more to include DSD (a trend setting obsolete product).


----------



## project86

I don't know if I'd write off DSD just yet. Things have changed enough that with a more convenient delivery model (downloads), more support (DSD capabilities becoming ubiquitous for most new DACs), and more actual native DSD recordings being made, it may just have a better shot. Back in the day, it suffered from a format war with DVD-A as well as a relatively limited amount of support from hardware manufacturers - the good players were very expensive (like your XA777ES) and the affordable players weren't resolving enough to showcase the difference. 
  
 Am I a huge DSD fanboy? Not really. But I do welcome it as yet another way to get great sound from my system. And I don't think it hurts much for Questyle to add it in there.


----------



## Moonhead

Hey good folks  
  
 Anyone tried LCD3 with Questyle to see if it has good synergy ? 
  
 I have HD800 and don't know if i should get LCD3 or TH900


----------



## asket

Somebody tried to compare this amplifier to Bakoon HA-21? it would be interesting to compare two devices to the identical principle.


----------



## collector

long story made short just received mine yesterday......plug in power with Australia plug.....nothing complain...change to 220v...nothing. Over month wait. Must be fuse?


----------



## Anda

moonhead said:


> Anyone tried LCD3 with Questyle to see if it has good synergy ?


 
  
 A local head-fier uses both LCD2r1 and LCD3 with the CMA800R. He seems very happy with the combo(s)


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Anda 
  
 Then it can't be all bad.. i guess dark headphones with a neutral amp could be a good combo.


----------



## 00lunar

Some say that LCD3 with HPA-21 are nicer than with HD 800.
  
 Anyway, LCD-2 with CMA800R is great, I can confirm that.
  
 Current amps really are something.


asket said:


> Somebody tried to compare this amplifier to Bakoon HA-21? it would be interesting to compare two devices to the identical principle.


 
  
 That's what I'm aiming to do if I'll get a chance to obtain HPA-21 again from polish distributor. As I wrote earlier, those two will be similar overall, but in HPA-21 in 90% cases current output is audibly better than voltage one. Though the price difference between this amp and CMA800R...


----------



## project86

collector said:


> long story made short just received mine yesterday......plug in power with Australia plug.....nothing complain...change to 220v...nothing. Over month wait. Must be fuse?


 
  
  
 I don't think I understand. Can you clarify please?


----------



## Sanlitun

moonhead said:


> Hey good folks
> 
> Anyone tried LCD3 with Questyle to see if it has good synergy ?
> 
> I have HD800 and don't know if i should get LCD3 or TH900


 
  
  
 Curious about this as well as I have had my eye on LCD3 for a long time now.
  
 I did try out my HE-500 with the CMA800R and honestly I didn't really care for it, especially in comparison to the way the HD800 sounds with this amp.


----------



## jacal01

Does anyone read these threads from the beginning for information?
  
 Again, my LCD-2.2 cans are my favorite pairing with the CMA-800.
  
 Aaand, there's even my comparison between the CMA-800 and the HPA-21 somewhere back there. This thread is a worthwhile read as a precondition to asking questions.
  
 Maybe we need a FAQ post. Who owns this thread, Haidar?  I don't think he's even posted since its beginning.


----------



## project86

jacal01 said:


> Does anyone read these threads from the beginning for information?


 
  
  
 I don't.


----------



## jacal01

You, sir, have an exemption.


----------



## Moonhead

Jacal01 i have been Reading these whole thread  lots of People say LCD2 & LCD3 are different and both May not work on the same AMP.


----------



## jacal01

I haven't actually tried the LCD-3, but everything I've read indicates the the Audeze house sound remains the same.  In fact, early LCD-3 reviewers had trouble distinguishing between the 2 models to justify the increase in price.  Later reviewers have gotten more adroit at this, tho.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The difference in the LCD impedances (45Ω vs. 60Ω) may be of some significance for the CMA-800R's voltage driven output, however.


----------



## asket

I read the reviews, I want to buy two amps to connect in dual mono or take one amp.
 I would like to take an interest, what advantages in using two amplifiers CM800R in dual mono in comparing to using one device CM800?
 Thanks


----------



## PETERCALV

collector said:


> long story made short just received mine yesterday......plug in power with Australia plug.....nothing complain...change to 220v...nothing. Over month wait. Must be fuse?


 

 I too had exactly the same issue when I bought my first Questyle amp. Before sending it back, I offered to replace the internal fuses to try and save the hassle of replacing it, but they wanted it back with the fault present. After testing, they told me the issue WAS the fuses after all.
  
 As it happens, this worked out right for me, as the original amplifier was the old CMA800, which was changed for the CMA800R. However, it does suggest the same issue is there. It may be worth your while replacing the internal fuses. It could be they are a low quality?


----------



## 00lunar

6moons final site of CMA800R review can be found, well, you know where. I didn't want to take risk and put direct link. Anyway, Srajan is "LCD guy", and he sees CMA800R as a magnifying glass, which is hard to deny at this point, at least my ears are telling me the same thing.


----------



## project86

I agree with the transparency-to-source portion of his review. Maybe not the bits about the "lack of humanity" and all that... but I suppose I see where he's going with it. Not so sure about his blanket recommendation for Grado and Audio Technicas though. While I _love_ the CMA800(R) with the PS-500, I dislike it with PS-1000 and would probably hate it with an SR-325i. I imagine Audio Technica would be equally hit or miss.... not sure I'd like the W1000x for example, where I prefer some warm coloration. 
  
 He should make sure to fix the parts that call it Soundquest and Questsound rather than Questyle. I hate to critique a fellow writer and we all screw up now and again, but multiple times in different ways points to a lack of concern.
  
 Also, for a guy who supposedly loves warmer, smoother sound, I can't reconcile his love of the beyer T5p.


----------



## Sanlitun

Is LCD3 generally considered to be the more resolving of the Audeze phones?
  
 I would love to find a pair of planar phones I can enjoy and keep as my default phones. I used the HE-500 for a long time but was often somewhat less than impressed with what was an overly thick sound, and to compensate I ended up the the HD-800 which are of course have their own problems in the other direction. Both can sound excellent in their own way, but often their shortcomings can be quite fatiguing for me. There is a part of me that wonders if LCD3 is the middle ground.


----------



## project86

sanlitun said:


> Is LCD3 generally considered to be the more resolving of the Audeze phones?
> 
> I would love to find a pair of planar phones I can enjoy and keep as my default phones. I used the HE-500 for a long time but was often somewhat less than impressed with what was an overly thick sound, and to compensate I ended up the the HD-800 which are of course have their own problems in the other direction. Both can sound excellent in their own way, but often their shortcomings can be quite fatiguing for me. There is a part of me that wonders if LCD3 is the middle ground.


 
  
 LCD-3 is somewhat more resolving and neutral than LCD-2. Still has that signature Audeze tone though. If you find HE-500 overly thick, then LCD-3 may be too much, even if it's more balanced than LCD-2. But it's worth a try.
  
 Have you tried HE-6? It is _very_ picky about amps but does quite well with CMA800R.


----------



## 00lunar

project86 said:


> I agree with the transparency-to-source portion of his review. Maybe not the bits about the "lack of humanity" and all that... but I suppose I see where he's going with it. Not so sure about his blanket recommendation for Grado and Audio Technicas though. While I _love_ the CMA800(R) with the PS-500, I dislike it with PS-1000 and would probably hate it with an SR-325i. I imagine Audio Technica would be equally hit or miss.... not sure I'd like the W1000x for example, where I prefer some warm coloration.
> 
> He should make sure to fix the parts that call it Soundquest and Questsound rather than Questyle. I hate to critique a fellow writer and we all screw up now and again, but multiple times in different ways points to a lack of concern.
> 
> Also, for a guy who supposedly loves warmer, smoother sound, I can't reconcile his love of the beyer T5p.


 
  
 Good points there. Overall I understand his point of view as well but there's not a word about excellent synergy with HD 800, and that's one very huge advantage of CMA800R even in comparison to much pricier bricks, one of key features of that particular amp. 
  
 Maybe if I had somewhere nearby that 6000$+ Crayon amp he mentioned earlier (he wrote it's the same sound signature as HPA-21 and CMA800R), I'd be biased to a degree that I couldn't give CMA800R proper credit, and maybe that's what happened, but that's guessing from my side.
  
 "Humanity lacking" in Srajans review was a bit odd for me too, as CMA800R for my ears delivers lots of smoothness as well, therefore his statement is off the table for me. But it's hard not to agree that there are thicker and fuller sounding amps out there, and I believe that's where Srajan went with his work. But, once again, maybe it's about reference he had nearby.


----------



## BournePerfect

Srajan used that phrase simply in relative terms comparing the Questyle to the $6000+ Crayon. Perspective people. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sanlitun

project86 said:


> LCD-3 is somewhat more resolving and neutral than LCD-2. Still has that signature Audeze tone though. If you find HE-500 overly thick, then LCD-3 may be too much, even if it's more balanced than LCD-2. But it's worth a try.
> 
> Have you tried HE-6? It is _very_ picky about amps but does quite well with CMA800R.


 
  
 Got my hands on the LCD-X and am setting it up now. After a quick listen I think I may have gotten lucky with these..


----------



## mcullinan

Yeah sounds like Srajan didn't like the amp..... I think it balances pretty nicely with the Senn 650 and Yulong DA8. You can tell the Questyle is a detail monster, but the sound is  on the warm side and pretty full sounding. I don't notice any brightness or edge.


----------



## project86

I would argue that he definitely DID like the amp, but not as much as that expensive Crayon model. He points out which gear it plays best with, which is definitely a valid point with an amp this revealing.


----------



## 00lunar

IMO he indeed liked CMA800R, ha stated that for 1499$ (or Euro) it's a very good brick to have, when compared to much more expensive ones that are placed in the same sound signature room. This is a good thing. Though, I won't change my mind regarding HD 800


----------



## mcullinan

I guess i just thought he didnt from his humanity comments. Im going to read it again.


----------



## 00lunar

From what I understood, CHA-1 and HP-21 did "humanity" stuff better than CMA800R, and I can believe that. But to my ears Questyle device has fair amount of it (smoothness etc.) already.


----------



## Carlsan

Srajan is not a very good writer, for all his grand use of language, or should I say misuse, he fails at the key rule of a good reviewer. His prose is so over board that there is no clarity on his meanings.
  
 I will often read his reviews, but I often do not know what he is talking about from one paragraph to another.
 Does he or doesn't he like the CMA800r, seems like he does. But then again, maybe he doesn't.


----------



## 00lunar

I have this feeling that he writes more for himself than his audience, but that's the beauty of 6Moons, ey?


----------



## hydesg

i should be receiving mine tomorrow... cant wait!
 to be paired with Yulong DA8 and HD800 and LCD2.


----------



## hydesg

I just received the amp.
 would this work with the amp to make it fully balanced?
 and do I need to do anything to the switch on the right?
 Thanks.


----------



## hydesg

Heres my latest setup.


----------



## PETERCALV

hydesg said:


> Heres my latest setup.


 
  


hydesg said:


> I just received the amp.
> would this work with the amp to make it fully balanced?
> and do I need to do anything to the switch on the right?
> Thanks.
> To have a fully balanced setup, you would need two CMA800R amplifiers. You would then connect each one separately to your Yulong DAC with XLR leads.


----------



## hydesg

Just swap the RCAs out for XLRs. BAM!!! It sounded damm good and much louder more weighty!


----------



## PETERCALV

hydesg said:


> Just swap the RCAs out for XLRs. BAM!!! It sounded damm good and much louder more weighty!


 

 I couldn't agree more. I am currently using two CMA800R with the Teac UD-501 DAC connected with XLR cables. It really is a great sounding setup.


----------



## hydesg

I compared it with the alo studio six and thought the cma was much better


----------



## 00lunar

hydesg said:


> I compared it with the alo studio six and thought the cma was much better


 
 Now ain't that something?


----------



## hydesg

the cma felt more powerful, controlled and refined


----------



## hydesg

can't imagine how good it will be when my second CMA800R comes


----------



## SebastianL

hydesg said:


> I compared it with the alo studio six and thought the cma was much better


 

 Really?
 Did you do a side by side comparison or just by memory?


----------



## 00lunar

sebastianl said:


> Really?
> Did you do a side by side comparison or just by memory?


 

 Curious here as well, everyone is raving about Studio Six. Though it's fair to say that those are different beasts from what I've read and what I know so far.


----------



## project86

I've seen the rave reviews, but also some pretty scathing criticism of the Studio Six, from a design point of view. There are always differing schools of thought on this stuff... but if I recall correctly the main issue was the output transformers being decidedly pedestrian for a $5k amp.


----------



## SebastianL

project86 said:


> I've seen the rave reviews, but also some pretty scathing criticism of the Studio Six, from a design point of view. There are always differing schools of thought on this stuff... but if I recall correctly the main issue was the output transformers being decidedly pedestrian for a $5k amp.




Yes, but have you heard the Studio Six yourself?


----------



## project86

Nope, which is why I don't have an opinion on it either way.


----------



## hydesg

If im not wrong output transformer plays a significant role in shaping the sound based on my experience wuth tinkering with guitar amps


----------



## project86

hydesg said:


> If im not wrong output transformer plays a significant role in shaping the sound based on my experience wuth tinkering with guitar amps


 
  
 Very true. There's even some science behind it. Generally speaking at these really high prices people have come to expect Lundahls or others using somewhat exotic materials - Mu-metal, Permalloy, that sort of thing.
  
 Again, I haven't heard the Studio Six, so this is all theoretical for me.


----------



## lithium1085

project86 said:


> Very true. There's even some science behind it. Generally speaking at these really high prices people have come to expect Lundahls or others using somewhat exotic materials - Mu-metal, Permalloy, that sort of thing.
> 
> Again, I haven't heard the Studio Six, so this is all theoretical for me.


 
  
 the Studio six is now 4k and talking of output transformers, there is very little talk about the audionote kits HE-6 headphone amp. Now those are some quality output transformers. http://www.ankaudiokits.com/he6headamp.html
 However, I guess availability is questionable since they are not there in the store part of the website.


----------



## Sonido

Read the past couple pages, so I'll just keep it short. I have just one simple question. Is this truly endgame caliber for the HD800?


----------



## Currawong

project86 said:


> hydesg said:
> 
> 
> > If im not wrong output transformer plays a significant role in shaping the sound based on my experience wuth tinkering with guitar amps
> ...


 
  
 It's OT, but I gather that the transformers were selected because more expensive ones didn't provide any significant benefit.


----------



## 00lunar

sonido said:


> Read the past couple pages, so I'll just keep it short. I have just one simple question. Is this truly endgame caliber for the HD800?


 

 IMO for the money - yes.


----------



## Sonido

00lunar said:


> IMO for the money - yes.



Well the Crack I have is supposed to be one of the best for the money for the HD800, but I don't think anyone will say it's endgame. I know there are amps better than Questyle for HD800, but could you be satisfied with the pairing if you never had access to another amp?


----------



## asket

sonido said:


> Well the Crack I have is supposed to be one of the best for the money for the HD800, but I don't think anyone will say it's endgame. I know there are amps better than Questyle for HD800, but could you be satisfied with the pairing if you never had access to another amp?


 
  
 Maybe balanced Beta22 of solid state amps are better than Questyle for the money?


----------



## Sanlitun

sonido said:


> Read the past couple pages, so I'll just keep it short. I have just one simple question. Is this truly endgame caliber for the HD800?


 
  
  
 This is probably about as far as it is possible to go with the HD800 with a commonly available amp, it's certainly the best I have heard the HD800 in my ever evolving home setup. The Bakoon HPA-21 is considered better,  but I thought it to be a bit too exotic due the batteries, price and lack of a dealer here. There is a new less expensive Bakoon coming (HPA-01) which I gather will be about $2500 and may be pretty tempting.
  
 Price considered this amp is a must buy if you are set on getting the best out of your HD800.
  
 I did buy this amp for my HD800 and it's fabulous, that said though once I heard the LCD-X with this I haven't gone back. I feel like I have discovered something amazing and I am for once happy with my headphone setup.


----------



## BydoEmpire

I've had one of these for about a little over a month now and it pairs great with my HD600/800. Sadly I find the TH900 to pair poorly with this amp simply due to the hiss (due to the high gain I presume) that is audible even at minimal volume and I absolutely hate anything short of a black background.


----------



## 00lunar

sonido said:


> Well the Crack I have is supposed to be one of the best for the money for the HD800, but I don't think anyone will say it's endgame. I know there are amps better than Questyle for HD800, but could you be satisfied with the pairing if you never had access to another amp?


 

 IMO CMA800R is not only excellent for the price with HD 800, but it's excellent with those cans overall. There aren't many amps that deliver such synergy with that particular headphones, regardless the price, at least from what I've experienced. Yes, I haven't heard many pricey bricks yet, but I know HD 800 more than well, and synergy those Senns have with current amps, well, magic.


----------



## Sonido

Ok I know this is not a fair comparison at all, but anyone try both the CMA800R and the Schiit Vali? I ask because I've found the Vali to have a very lean and detailed signature and sound more solid state than tube. It's more detailed and airy compared to my Crack, but in turn lacks body and lushness. Anyone who's heard both, would you say the *signature* is similar? I can imagine the CMA800R being a technicality superior Vali.


----------



## project86

sonido said:


> Well the Crack I have is supposed to be one of the best for the money for the HD800, but I don't think anyone will say it's endgame. I know there are amps better than Questyle for HD800, but could you be satisfied with the pairing if you never had access to another amp?


 
  
 I would. I like the AURALiC Taurus MKII better than CMA800R for some headphones, like Audeze and especially HE-6. I like the Questyle more with HD800, HD650, and HE-400 (which shoots down my high impedance/low impedance theory - dang). 
  
 I'm curious to see how using dual CMA800R changes things. I'm certain it won't _double_ the performance... that's just not possible. But even a small improvement over an already _really good_ sound is kind of a big deal. 
  
 Is it "endgame"? Depends on your definition I suppose. For me, yes.


----------



## dbalvo

Can anyone shed some light on this amp vs the Conductor/Soloist? I'm currently using the former with a pair of LCD-XCs. Wondering how much better things might sound with the CMA800. Thanks!


----------



## hydesg

project86 said:


> I would. I like the AURALiC Taurus MKII better than CMA800R for some headphones, like Audeze and especially HE-6. I like the Questyle more with HD800, HD650, and HE-400 (which shoots down my high impedance/low impedance theory - dang).
> 
> I'm curious to see how using dual CMA800R changes things. I'm certain it won't _double_ the performance... that's just not possible. But even a small improvement over an already _really good_ sound is kind of a big deal.
> 
> Is it "endgame"? Depends on your definition I suppose. For me, yes.


 
 did you manage to get another one for review?


----------



## Sonido

I'm debating between this and the Bottlehead Mainline. Both about $1000. Obviously completely different signatures, but I already have a warm tube setup for HD800, so this amp is better for complementary purposes.


----------



## project86

hydesg said:


> did you manage to get another one for review?


 
  
  
 Not yet, but I will down the road a bit. Need to finish up some other stuff first (including the Questyle Q192), and Questyle is in the midst of the New Year celebration right now anyway.


----------



## Sonido

I know there's a debate on whether balanced makes a big difference in general. I wonder though if this amp suffers any of the problems of the WA22, which is designed in a way that unless you go balanced, it will only take in 50% of the input (not sure what that even means). I guess it's probably the same here where if you use only one CMA800 you get the input of only one, and if you get two and go balanced, you get the input of two, so one is 50% of two. That would explain the power differences between balanced and unbalanced. I guess the complaint on going unbalanced in the WA22 is that it's like you're buying two CMA800's, but only using one unbalanced. With the WA22, you can't buy just half of it to go unbalanced since it's sold as a combined unit unlike the CMA800. So it would be a waste of money and not using the WA22 to its full potential if going unbalanced, and that is probably the biggest complaint on going unbalanced for the WA22. At least we wouldn't have this problem with the CMA800 going unbalanced from a monetary standpoint. 

With all that said though, people report seemingly vast differences between balanced and unbalanced with the WA22 and I wonder if it would be the same with the CMA800.

Reference on WA22 balanced vs unbalanced: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634551/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input


----------



## project86

The problem, as I see it, is that Woo uses a slightly different definition of "fully balanced" than the rest of us. Technically they are accurate - the internal design carries the signal in a balanced format. Where they lose me (and I suspect a lot of others) is when they call it fully balanced "from input to output". The way they use it, that definition doesn't address what happens to the signal as it makes its way out of the amp. It may be "fully balanced" and have some benefit there (noise rejection etc), but when it hits the output jack it goes back to a shared ground scenario, all the way up through the headphone cable. This is otherwise known as _single-ended_. Even if we use a balanced headphone with the 4-pin XLR jack, we are still sharing the ground on each side. So _not_ fully balanced in that context. Does it matter? I dunno, haven't spent much time with the WA22. I know some people who love it and some who find it lackluster for the price. 
  
 The CMA800R, on the other hand, operates differently depending on how many of them you have. It's a true single-ended design when using just one of them - looks like the XLR inputs get summed to single ended at the input stage, and their Trans-Linear Loop circuit appears to be single-ended all the way (note the pair of OPA627 opamps, each of which is a single-channel mono opamp). This supports what I hear as far as the XLR and RCA inputs sounding the same. 
  
 With a pair of CMA800R operating in balanced mode, it becomes a true, dual mono, fully balanced system. The separate 3-pin XLR input passes a signal through the same circuitry and out the front panel 3-pin XLR jack. In this situation, each unit is only concerned with one channel, or one side of your headphones if that makes it easier to comprehend. Each side (obviously) gets an independent power supply as well. When used in this configuration, you absolutely _do_ need a proper balanced output from your source, as each unit will only accept XLR.
  
 So, long story short, using a single CMA800R with RCA inputs is absolutely fine.


----------



## Sanlitun

project86 said:


> The CMA800R, on the other hand, operates differently depending on how many of them you have. It's a true single-ended design when using just one of them - looks like the XLR inputs get summed to single ended at the input stage, and their Trans-Linear Loop circuit appears to be single-ended all the way (note the pair of OPA627 opamps, each of which is a single-channel mono opamp). This supports what I hear as far as the XLR and RCA inputs sounding the same.


 
  
 I'm pretty curious about this as I have been tinkering around this weekend with my system and swapping in some XLR interconnects. When you mean summed do you mean that the unused line of the XLR is just grounded? Or is there something else that has to happen?


----------



## project86

sanlitun said:


> I'm pretty curious about this as I have been tinkering around this weekend with my system and swapping in some XLR interconnects. When you mean summed do you mean that the unused line of the XLR is just grounded? Or is there something else that has to happen?


 
  
  
 Not sure exactly how they go about it. There are two opamps visible in the input stage, along with the relays. I'm guessing they sum the XLRs and possibly act as a buffer as well. But I could be wrong. Either way, the RCA and XLR end up sounding the same to me - assuming of course the source doesn't have variation between the two outputs. Which a lot of DACs or players actually do (the X-Sabre being one of them).


----------



## BydoEmpire

sonido said:


> Ok I know this is not a fair comparison at all, but anyone try both the CMA800R and the Schiit Vali? I ask because I've found the Vali to have a very lean and detailed signature and sound more solid state than tube. It's more detailed and airy compared to my Crack, but in turn lacks body and lushness. Anyone who's heard both, would you say the *signature* is similar? I can imagine the CMA800R being a technicality superior Vali.


 

 Just so happens I have a Vali around and I'd say that the signature is indeed similar at least when it comes to using the HD600/800 as a basis for comparison.


----------



## Moonhead

BydoEmpire
  
 I see you have the Asus essence one, how does that compere to Questyle ?


----------



## BydoEmpire

moonhead said:


> BydoEmpire
> 
> I see you have the Asus essence one, how does that compere to Questyle ?


 
 I'd say the CMA800R gives a wider sound stage with better separation/details in comparison to using the HP amp on the E1 (at least with the HD800s). Don't get me wrong I think the 800s pair well with the E1 built in amp but CMA800R + HD800 =

 Darn now I'm hungry.


----------



## project86

For anyone interested, my review of the Questyle Q192 is now posted. It's very good, among the best affordable DAC/amp solutions I've seen - assuming you don't need loads of power. Sort of an opposite approach compared to Audio GD, in terms of both current levels as well as signature.


----------



## victorcc

Thanks a lot for the review, it does indeed seem like a great option for the HD800s.
  
 Having listened to the HD800s with the CAS192 plus CMA800, how would you describe the SQ difference between this much more expensive configuration and the Q192?
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## project86

The CAS192 plus CMA800R is definitely an extension of the Q192 sound signature. It's not like it deviates and becomes some completely different animal - the Questyle sound is still in full display. Since the big combo is over 4 times the price, you'd expect a significant improvement. And that's exactly what you get.
  
 The CAS192 is more resolving than the Q192. It digs deeper into the recording for superior microdetail, bigger soundstage, more accurate imaging, all that good stuff. Q192 is very good for what it is, but will become a bottleneck when used in a really high end system. Which is not unexpected given the price.
  
 Likewise, CMA800R is a juiced up version of the Q192 amp section. Or rather I should say Q192 amp is a "lite" version of the big amp. With the CMA800R, expect a more full-bodied tone, more dynamic presentation, and even higher resolution than the already good Q192. Also, it can comfortably drive more power hungry cans, where the Q192 is better suited for easier loads. 
  
 Q192 is a great starter device - I can easily recommend it for someone looking to build a system. Grab the Q192 and then start going through headphones to see what you like - try some Grados, an HD598, Audio Technica AD900X, the Focal Spirit Pro.... just see what sort of signature you prefer. Throw in some HiFiMAN RE-400 or maybe even some custom IEMs from 1964 Ears or Cosmic Ears, and you'll be all set. Oh, and don't forget the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 as well, in your desktop rig (controlled by Q192 of course!).


----------



## dbalvo

Wondering if anyone in the Seattle area has a CMA800?  It sounds like what I'm looking for, but I'd really like to hear it before buying one.


----------



## victorcc

Thanks for the detailed comparison project86


----------



## Sonido

Anyone compared this to the HDVD800/HDVA600?


----------



## 00lunar

sonido said:


> Anyone compared this to the HDVD800/HDVA600?


 
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those the same to some degree? And one has d/a onboard and other - doesn't? So basicly amp setion should sound the same? But then again... I might be wrong.


----------



## Sonido

00lunar said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those the same to some degree? And one has d/a onboard and other - doesn't? So basicly amp setion should sound the same? But then again... I might be wrong.



Yup. That's why I was wondering if anyone tried out either one of those and the CMA800 or CMA800R.


----------



## 00lunar

sonido said:


> Yup. That's why I was wondering if anyone tried out either one of those and the CMA800 or CMA800R.


 

 I reviewed HDVD800 and to be honest, pricewise I wasn't that impressed. One thing that comes to my mind now is that Senns brick was quite sharp, but I reviewed it a while ago (may 2013). I don't want to guess, since both CMA800R and HDVD weren't compared side by side. But if I had to pick, well, there's only one way for me to go with amp now in around 1500$ price range. Anyway, conclusion of my review was as follows: with HD 800 Phoenix paired with NuForce DAC-9 performed better than HDVD800. Though there's some synergy between Senns integrated and HD 800 for sure.


----------



## saer

Read through all 19 pages so far and saying that my interest has peaked for this amp is definitely an understatement. Is there any chance someone can compare this to the Mjolnir when running LCDs ?


----------



## Moonhead

Saer
  
 I had the Mjolnir amp before, one of the biggest disappointments in my Hifi journey, i now have Questyle cma800r and this is endgame for me 
 - Mjolnir doesn't even come close to the Questyle in built quality and most important in performance


----------



## saer

moonhead said:


> Saer
> 
> I had the Mjolnir amp before, one of the biggest disappointments in my Hifi journey, i now have Questyle cma800r and this is endgame for me
> - Mjolnir doesn't even come close to the Questyle in built quality and most important in performance


 
  
 Ya, I figured as much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What was your setup when you had the Mjolnir and what heaphones were you using ?
  
 What about the Gungnir feeding the CMA, temporarily ?


----------



## Moonhead

I returned Mjolnir/Gungnir after two weeks, it had an very unnatural sound signature, especially in the top, Very very bright,  but i was using it with HE6. 
 But if that wasn't enough, the built quality looked and felt very cheap, as if the company didn't even try.. maybe is could work well Audeze, I'm not sure, but Questyle is really in a whole different league. 
 I would urge you to stay away from schiit gear and go the questyle route  
 - i doesn't colour the sound i any way.


----------



## saer

moonhead said:


> I returned Mjolnir/Gungnir after two weeks, it had an very unnatural sound signature, especially in the top, Very very bright,  but i was using it with HE6.
> But if that wasn't enough, the built quality looked and felt very cheap, as if the company didn't even try.. maybe is could work well Audeze, I'm not sure, but Questyle is really in a whole different league.
> I would urge you to stay away from schiit gear and go the questyle route
> - i doesn't colour the sound i any way.


 
  
 Ahh I see, the M/G stack has been mentioned a few times that it doesn't pair well with the HE-6 as not many _headphone_ amps do. 
  
 My experience with Schiit gear has been quite enjoyable thus far but I am itching to try something else, the CMA looks like just the thing to fulfill that urge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Would still very much like to hear from people who have been able to compare this and the Molnir when driving LCDs.


----------



## twsmith

Just received CMA800R (ordered from Amazon - very quick delivery) yesterday -- my overall impression in one word = AMAZING!   I'm using my Invicta DAC (1st generation) as the source and HD800 HPs.   The HPs run single-ended from the CMA800R are a major improvement even over the balanced HP outputs from the Invicta (which is actually pretty good as well).   The CMA800R is the best HP amp I've ever heard driving my H800s.  Very nice product!


----------



## kaesar94

twsmith said:


> Just received CMA800R (ordered from Amazon - very quick delivery) yesterday -- my overall impression in one word = AMAZING!   I'm using my Invicta DAC (1st generation) as the source and HD800 HPs.   The HPs run single-ended from the CMA800R are a major improvement even over the balanced HP outputs from the Invicta (which is actually pretty good as well).   The CMA800R is the best HP amp I've ever heard driving my H800s.  Very nice product!




Which other amp you've ever heard with HD800?


----------



## twsmith

kaesar94 said:


> Which other amp you've ever heard with HD800?




Amps:
Headroom BUDA
Headamp GS1
Headamp GS-X

DAC/Amp combos:
Benchmark DAC1
AnedioD1
Resonessence Invicta


----------



## dbalvo

Anyone have advice for DACs that pair well with and can really drive the CMA800R?  I know Questyle has their CAS192 which presumably pairs well (though appears to lack volume controls if you want to use two CMA800Rs in dual mono.)  What other DACs work well with and really bring out the best in this amp?


----------



## project86

dbalvo said:


> Anyone have advice for DACs that pair well with and can really drive the CMA800R?  I know Questyle has their CAS192 which presumably pairs well (though appears to lack volume controls if you want to use two CMA800Rs in dual mono.)  What other DACs work well with and really bring out the best in this amp?


 
  
  
 You gotta be careful because the CMA800R is extremely revealing of source. So The DAC that seemed vaguely dull or bright (or whatever) will be more obviously so compared to most other amps. So when I pair it with the Anedio D2 I get extreme detail. When I use the Yulong DA8, I get some warmth and a smoother tone. It's possible to go too far in either direction - Esoteric D07 is too detailed and analytical for my taste, Rega DAC is dull to the point of lacking all involvement.


----------



## twsmith

project86's comment re DACs is basically right on the mark -- the CMA800R really is a very transparent amp, which is good in the sense that it lets you match easier the sound of the DAC you prefer. I've only used one DAC with it myself - the Resonessence Invicta - which I feel matches extremely well. I especially like the Invicta since it is a very detailed (but also smooth and well-balanced) DAC that fits best the way I like to listen. Really good DACs like the Invicta will cost you a bit, but if you are going to get an amp as good as the Questyle, I think it pays to get the best DAC possible. If you do want to get 2 amps for dual mono, it is true that you need a DAC with a volume control and this is where DACs like the Invicta (or Mirus) and others like it will pay off. The alternative is that you would need to insert a preamp between a DAC with a fixed output and the 2 amps, which I'm sure would work fine, but you would be complicating the signal path a bit, I would think.


----------



## jacal01

dbalvo said:


> Anyone have advice for DACs that pair well with and can really drive the CMA800R?  I know Questyle has their CAS192 which presumably pairs well (though appears to lack volume controls if you want to use two CMA800Rs in dual mono.)  What other DACs work well with and really bring out the best in this amp?


 
  
 I get smooth pacing as well as high fidelity to pair with the revealing clarity of the CMA800 with my Chord QuteHD DAC and Hynes linear power power.  Its superior signal filtering manages to avoid the digital graininess typical of a lot of sigma-delta chip DACs, which can be exposed so glaringly by the Questyle amp.
  
 I too would recommend a good DAC (e.g. R2R) with built-in volume control if you are going the dual CMA800R monoblock route.


----------



## 00lunar

jacal01 said:


> I get smooth pacing as well as high fidelity to pair with the revealing clarity of the CMA800 with my Chord QuteHD DAC and Hynes linear power power.  Its superior signal filtering manages to avoid the digital graininess typical of a lot of sigma-delta chip DACs, which can be exposed so glaringly by the Questyle amp.
> 
> I too would recommend a good DAC (e.g. R2R) with built-in volume control if you are going the dual CMA800R monoblock route.


 

 100% correct. That's why I'm aiming at DP-777 or Rockna Wavedream in near future


----------



## Anda

Audio-GD Reference-10.32 with 4x PCM1704 and relay based volume control could be a nice option 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm


----------



## BleaK

I so want this amp now...


----------



## saer

Likewise, someone sell me theirs for 1k


----------



## saer

Something about this image makes me tingle in all the right places


----------



## hydesg

i am gonna have a setup like this once the 2nd cma800 reaches me.


----------



## Sonido

hydesg said:


> i am gonna have a setup like this once the 2nd cma800 reaches me.



Nice! Looking forward to your impressions on how much of a difference balanced is over single ended. Not many impressions comparing the two setups for these it would seem.


----------



## project86

I just spoke to Questyle and confirmed a few things. Figured I should update here so everyone knows the latest info.
  
 First, the Q192 is not being redone. I think there was some speculation about it, possibly being refreshed to add DSD. They decided that it needs to keep a low price point (low for a good all-in-one device) rather than add features. So the Q192, which I really like, stays the same. 
  
 Next, the CAS192 _is_ getting a minor update in the near future, with "True DSD" capabilities. What it won't be getting is volume control. So the CAS192 driving dual CMA800R, as pictured a few posts ago, would require software volume control. Which may not be such a bad thing, I don't know. 
  
 Lastly, Questyle has a few more products on the horizon, but nothing finalized yet. There is a higher-end DAC positioned above the CAS192, and then a monoblock speaker amplifier. Neither have prices, finalized specs, or anything else worth mentioning, so I don't have much else to say yet.
  
 Anyway, I'm still enjoying the heck out of the CMA800R. Need to write up my thoughts regarding the differences between them - it's a small improvement, but worth mentioning since the CMA800 is already so damn good.


----------



## 00lunar

project86 said:


> I just spoke to Questyle and confirmed a few things. Figured I should update here so everyone knows the latest info.
> 
> First, the Q192 is not being redone. I think there was some speculation about it, possibly being refreshed to add DSD. They decided that it needs to keep a low price point (low for a good all-in-one device) rather than add features. So the Q192, which I really like, stays the same.
> 
> ...


 
 Same thing I've heard, from the same person. Let me just give you guys picture, which confirms what project86 just wrote : http://www.questyleaudio.com/uploads/allimg/140123/1-1401231IH3106.JPG
  
 You can see there two monoblocks, speaker power amps. And above them there's a DAC. Yes, it has volume knob, and yes, it's Questyle. But I promised I won't tell what it is, at least untill official release. But that brick is above CAS192.


----------



## igormsk

project86 said:


> their CAS192 is an exceptional DAC. It's not the focus of this article, so I'll just say it's very transparent, open, and natural sounding. Definitely competitive with the best I've encountered in that price range or even beyond


 
  
 Can you please tell us how the CAS192 sounds in comparison with Yulong DA8 and Invicta? I'm currently awaiting my already ordered CMA800R (HD800 already on hand) and looking for a nice DAC (usb input only) to use it with instead of the current Audio-gd NFB 10.32. I'm listening mainly to classical music.


----------



## project86

igormsk said:


> Can you please tell us how the CAS192 sounds in comparison with Yulong DA8 and Invicta? I'm currently awaiting my already ordered CMA800R (HD800 already on hand) and looking for a nice DAC (usb input only) to use it with instead of the current Audio-gd NFB 10.32. I'm listening mainly to classical music.


 
  
  
 I'm still fleshing it out. So far it seems closer to the Invicta than the DA8 in terms of signature - neutral, detailed, but not bright or edgy at all. DA8 has more warmth which could be good or bad based on system matching. I haven't messed with filters or upsampling much, so theoretically I might be able to tweak the CAS192 a little. I believe the filters are the stock Wolfson options, and historically I have always preferred the minimum phase apodizing filter. Which is what I've been using with the CAS192. But there's always the possibility I might like one of the others in this particular unit. Same with upsampling - I've been leaving it engaged, but should try to disable it just to see.
  
 It's actually very close to the Anedio D1 and D2, which of course is a good thing in my book. Need to break out my D2 and see how they differ.


----------



## igormsk

Thank you for a detailed answer. If it's not better than the DA8 by a good margin I think that I will steak to the DA8 because of a lower price.


----------



## project86

igormsk said:


> Thank you for a detailed answer. If it's not better than the DA8 by a good margin I think that I will steak to the DA8 because of a lower price.


 
  
  
 Noting wrong with that. DA8 is an excellent DAC as well.


----------



## Sonido

How well does this amp (CMA800*R*) work for lower impedance headphones? It has a very low output impedance so damping factor shouldn't be an issue right?


----------



## project86

sonido said:


> How well does this amp (CMA800*R*) work for lower impedance headphones? It has a very low output impedance so damping factor shouldn't be an issue right?


 
  
 Correct. The only thing possibly holding it back is the higher gain, which could be too much for some really sensitive headphones. This usually translates to less precise control with the volume knob, but I could see a few headphones maybe showing hiss - Ultrasone Signature Pro comes to mind, though I no longer have a pair to test that theory.


----------



## Sonido

project86 said:


> Correct. The only thing possibly holding it back is the higher gain, which could be too much for some really sensitive headphones. This usually translates to less precise control with the volume knob, but I could see a few headphones maybe showing hiss - Ultrasone Signature Pro comes to mind, though I no longer have a pair to test that theory.



Thought noise and hiss was all related to sensitivity? How would you say the AKG K812 would fare at 110 dB/V, 95.6 dB/mW, and 36 ohms?


----------



## igormsk

project86 said:


> Noting wrong with that. DA8 is an excellent DAC as well.


 


 I hope so. A month ago I made a comparison between Matrix X-sabre (after 20 hours burn in) and my Audio-gd NFB10.32 (dual Wolfson WM8741, $600). I was using Stax 507 headphones and SRM 600 limited energizer. To my surprise I could not tell the DACs apart in a A/B comparison in 3 sessions on different days (I was switching the inputs on SRM 600 while playing the same music through both DACs) - they sounded absolutely the same to me.
  
 A week later I made a brief comparison in a headphone shop between ASUS Essence III and my NFB10.32 - on first impression STAX 507 with Essence III had better defined bass than on my NFB10.32. But as it wasn't the goal of my visit (I was comparing HD800 to my STAX 507 and  because I liked HD800 even with Burson Soloist so much more (better bass, wonderful instrument separation and stage width, much more transparent-clear on passsages with many instruments sounding in a symphony), I sold my STAX 507 the next day and bought HD800 and now I'm waiting for CMA800R to arrive in a week or two and am thinking about a better DAC for it). I might have chosen even Eccence III as a DAC, but at $2500 it's to overpriced here - $1200 for DA8 is much more welcome after the headphones/amplifier replacement, which also required some money.
  
 By the way - HD800 pluged directly into my NFB10.32 sound much worser than on Burson Soloist and the same NFB10.32 as a DAC. The main difference is the lack of instrument separation in space on the NFB.


----------



## project86

sonido said:


> Thought noise and hiss was all related to sensitivity? How would you say the AKG K812 would fare at 110 dB/V, 95.6 dB/mW, and 36 ohms?


 
  
 On paper, yes, it's easy to predict. In practice, not always. I think some of these companies give us incorrect numbers on their headphones, or maybe the numbers are from testing a pre-production model and the end product is different. Anyway, I'd think the K812 would be fine, but it's hard to say for sure. Ultrasone doesn't give proper specs for their headphones so the Sig Pro is probably an anomaly, but when I had it I got lots of hiss with various amps. 
  


igormsk said:


> I hope so. A month ago I made a comparison between Matrix X-sabre (after 20 hours burn in) and my Audio-gd NFB10.32 (dual Wolfson WM8741, $600). I was using Stax 507 headphones and SRM 600 limited energizer. To my surprise I could not tell the DACs apart in a A/B comparison in 3 sessions on different days (I was switching the inputs on SRM 600 while playing the same music through both DACs) - they sounded absolutely the same to me.
> 
> A week later I made a brief comparison in a headphone shop between ASUS Essence III and my NFB10.32 - on first impression STAX 507 with Essence III had better defined bass than on my NFB10.32. But as it wasn't the goal of my visit (I was comparing HD800 to my STAX 507 and  because I liked HD800 even with Burson Soloist so much more (better bass, wonderful instrument separation and stage width, much more transparent-clear on passsages with many instruments sounding in a symphony), I sold my STAX 507 the next day and bought HD800 and now I'm waiting for CMA800R to arrive in a week or two and am thinking about a better DAC for it). I might have chosen even Eccence III as a DAC, but at $2500 it's to overpriced here - $1200 for DA8 is much more welcome after the headphones/amplifier replacement, which also required some money.
> 
> By the way - HD800 pluged directly into my NFB10.32 sound much worser than on Burson Soloist and the same NFB10.32 as a DAC. The main difference is the lack of instrument separation in space on the NFB.


 
  
 Personally I like DA8 a lot more than the Soloist. Your results may differ. Hope you enjoy whatever it is you end up with though - CMA800R with HD800 is going to be _very _transparent, so DAC differences may become more clear than ever.


----------



## PETERCALV

So you know money isn't everything, one of the best DAC's I have heard with the dual CMA800R is the Teac UD-501 using XLR. Be patient though, it needs A LONG burn in period. at the other end of the scale, I also tried a Weiss 202 that sounded horrendous.


----------



## project86

petercalv said:


> So you know money isn't everything, one of the best DAC's I have heard with the dual CMA800R is the Teac UD-501 using XLR. Be patient though, it needs A LONG burn in period. at the other end of the scale, I also tried a Weiss 202 that sounded horrendous.


 
  
  
 Agreed that price is not always proportional to performance. Also, keep in mind that individual preferences and perceptions often differ. For example, I don't much care for the Teac UD-501, but do enjoy the Weiss gear - though I can certainly see why some people find it too clinical.


----------



## jespersen

project86 said:


> First, the Q192 is not being redone. I think there was some speculation about it, possibly being refreshed to add DSD. They decided that it needs to keep a low price point (low for a good all-in-one device) rather than add features. So the Q192, which I really like, stays the same.


 
   
Hello! Saw the reviews on Innerfidelity of the Q192 and the Concero HP; both getting great reviews and both are in the same price bracket; and with build-in DAC. I'm in the mood for a HD800 set of headphones and contemplating Q192, Concero HP and CMA800R. Since the CMA 800R plus a suitable DAC is substantially more expensive I presume the sound is somewhat "better"; not sure how much; no chance to pre-listen beforehand any of these products so I would appreciate a comparison of the three products with the HD800 - and I'm sure several people would find your comments very interesting indeed.

 Best.
 jespersen


----------



## igormsk

project86 said:


> CMA800R with HD800 is going to be _very _transparent, so DAC differences may become more clear than ever.


 
 Please allow me an other question on DAC choosing for matching with single CMA800R & HD800 (stock cable). Leaving Auralic Vega & Questyle CAS192 out (too expensive for me at the moment) Now I'm choosing between DA8 & Firestone Tobby & Schiit Gungnir. They will be pluged directly into usb of a laptop and as I already noted I'm listening mainly to classical music, mostly elder (60-80) recordings not always of audiophile quality (most recording done prior to 1960 sound on my current system so bad that I skip them at all).
  
 In the Tobby review you stated that you liked it a lot for classical music. But later on you have written that it's a bit on the bright/analytical side and not the best choise for not top quality recordings. Won't it sound bright/unforgiving for not top quality recordings on my system with CMA800R & HD800? Would DA8 be a better choise in this scenario?
  
 In the DA8 review you also mentioned that DA8 sounded noticable better with Audiophilleo or Auraliti PK90 (that I don't have) than straight of the usb on a macbook, at the same time Tobby sounded best over usb even straight from the macbook.
  
 The Tobby will cost me just 50-60% of what I would have to pay for DA8, so DA8 has to be definatly superior for my system to make up the extra expense.
  
 It's sad but I have no other choise than buying them without auditioning first - that's why i'm asking so many questions.


----------



## turo91

Some testing


----------



## hydesg

how is it? really cant wait for mine to get to me!
  
 Quote:


turo91 said:


> Some testing


----------



## turo91

hydesg said:


>


 
  
 It sound great with ortos and with the HD650, a big improvement compared with single ended.
 With the HD800 the improvement are lower.


----------



## project86

igormsk said:


> Please allow me an other question on DAC choosing for matching with single CMA800R & HD800 (stock cable). Leaving Auralic Vega & Questyle CAS192 out (too expensive for me at the moment) Now I'm choosing between DA8 & Firestone Tobby & Schiit Gungnir. They will be pluged directly into usb of a laptop and as I already noted I'm listening mainly to classical music, mostly elder (60-80) recordings not always of audiophile quality (most recording done prior to 1960 sound on my current system so bad that I skip them at all).
> 
> In the Tobby review you stated that you liked it a lot for classical music. But later on you have written that it's a bit on the bright/analytical side and not the best choise for not top quality recordings. Won't it sound bright/unforgiving for not top quality recordings on my system with CMA800R & HD800? Would DA8 be a better choise in this scenario?
> 
> ...


 
  
 In that case I would definitely lean towards the DA8. Tobby is brilliant with good recordings, but not very forgiving with poor material. DA8 is a lot more even handing, sounding good with most anything you play. DA8 is still very good via Macbook USB.... those other things improve it, but baseline performance is already quite good. I believe Tobby is more compromised on the other inputs - it's mainly a USB DAC, with legacy support, while the DA8 is roughly equal across all inputs. Which makes it more susceptible to expensive USB to SPDIF converters like the OR5 or AP1+PP. 
  
 At half price, Tobby is attractive, but I'm still not sure it's ideal due to your choice of music.  
  
  


turo91 said:


> It sound great with ortos and with the HD650, a big improvement compared with single ended.
> With the HD800 the improvement are lower.


 
  
 Makes sense - a single CMA800R is already brilliant with HD800 and has plenty of juice, so the extra power isn't needed so much. With planars, the increase is probably more welcome.


----------



## igormsk

project86 said:


> In that case I would definitely lean towards the DA8. Tobby is brilliant with good recordings, but not very forgiving with poor material. DA8 is a lot more even handing, sounding good with most anything you play.
> At half price, Tobby is attractive, but I'm still not sure it's ideal due to your choice of music.


 
 As always - thank you very much for your reviews and answers on the forum!
 Just ordered DA8 here in Russia locally and for a reasonable price, CMA800R has passed customs today, so I will be back next week with my initial impressions of my new setup: DA8 - CMA800R - HD800


----------



## turo91

project86 said:


> Makes sense - a single CMA800R is already brilliant with HD800 and has plenty of juice, so the extra power isn't needed so much. With planars, the increase is probably more welcome.


 
  
  
 I think the same thing.
 I never heard the HD800 better without any amp.
 It's the firsto 10 on 10 score on my site


----------



## kaesar94

Has anyone compared the CMA800R to the ECP Audio L-2 with the HD800?


----------



## project86

kaesar94 said:


> Has anyone compared the CMA800R to the ECP Audio L-2 with the HD800?


 
  
  
 Not directly. I've heard the L2, love it, and if any amp out there can compete with CMA800R/HD800, the ECP might be it. But that's as far as I can say without direct comparisons.


----------



## kaesar94

project86 said:


> Not directly. I've heard the L2, love it, and if any amp out there can compete with CMA800R/HD800, the ECP might be it. But that's as far as I can say without direct comparisons.




From what i know, the L-2 is THE best of the best for HD800 ( check the review of Tyll for L-2/HD800 combo @Innerfidelity when comparing with the Abyss 1266). So, now, it seems the CMA800R is of the same league of the ECP...wow...i'm very impressed of this amp....


----------



## project86

kaesar94 said:


> From what i know, the L-2 is THE best of the best for HD800 ( check the review of Tyll for L-2/HD800 combo @Innerfidelity when comparing with the Abyss 1266). So, now, it seems the CMA800R is of the same league of the ECP...wow...i'm very impressed of this amp....


 
  
 In context, he does mention (bottom of the page) it being ideal for those who struggle with the HD800 being too sterile. I don't know if I'd use the same description regarding CMA800R. Then again, I don't recommend the L-2 as being overly syrupy or anything like that, so it would be a good comparison to have them both handy.


----------



## Headtrip

Really appreciate all the informative reviews. I received my Questyle this week and am blown away by the amazing quality of sound I'm getting with my HD800s played through my PerfectWaveII which is part of my main system. I'm a newbie to the headfi scene but I can see why it's such a fast-growing segment of the audio landscape. I just got my Hugo a few weeks ago and the Questyle even betters that great sounding rig.


----------



## Sonido

Gonna be using with HD800 and K812.


----------



## punit

Your CMA 800R has tubes


----------



## Sonido

punit said:


> Your CMA 800R has tubes


 
 What? You don't like tubes?


----------



## Carlsan

punit said:


> Your CMA 800R has tubes


 
  
 LOL! No, he must have tube amp/dac in background of photo.
  
 Ah, never mind, I need more coffee...


----------



## punit

sonido said:


> What? You don't like tubes?


 
  
  
  
 I don't like them.
  
 I love them


----------



## punit

> Gonna be using with HD800 and K812.


 
 Would be very interested in a comparison of HD800 vs K812 .


----------



## Sonido




----------



## Sonido

First impressions are, compared to Vali, everything is smoother, and somehow feels less congested. A whole new level of refinement. More noticeable on the HD800.
  
 The bass also hits hard!
  
 More impressions:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9000#post_10348161


----------



## BleaK

sonido said:


> First impressions are, compared to Vali, everything is smoother, and somehow feels less congested. A whole new level of refinement. More noticeable on the HD800.
> 
> The bass also hits hard!


 

 Please, more impressions! I only have the Vali for now, but this might be the next amp for me! Are you saying it is smoother (more relaxed?) than the Vali?


----------



## Sonido

bleak said:


> Please, more impressions! I only have the Vali for now, but this might be the next amp for me! Are you saying it is smoother (more relaxed?) than the Vali?


 

 Definitely. Just compared with my more musical setup, the Quickie + Crack, and the Questyle is far more refined and uncongested, while still providing the same level of intimacy and sounding just as natural. While I found the Bottlehead setup to be more natural and euphonic over the Vali, I also felt the Vali was clearer and more accurate to the source, at somewhat the cost of musicality and euphony. Even though the Bottlehead setup was more congested, it was never rough or jarring; it was very smooth. The Questyle take that level of smoothness from the Bottlehead setup, and most amazingly to me, the same level of euphony and intimacy as well. Yet it's even clearer, more detailed and less congested than the Vali. It's really taking the best of both of my previous setups, while making the Vali side of accuracy even better. I never thought a solid state could do this, especially the level of intimacy and euphony. I am very very impressed, both from technical and sonic perspectives. Once again this is all mostly on the HD800, and not so much on the K812. Unfortunately, like many said, this amp is really just especially good for the HD800. After all, it was built with it in mind.


----------



## hekeli

Took a plunge on CMA800R too, maybe I'll have it in a week..
  
 Vali is not really my cup of tea, fuzzied things too much vs my Benchmark DAC2 - yes I prefer my HD800 raw and ruthless, don't hide anything from me!
  
 Very interested to see if CMA800R is similar to DAC2 and if there's even any difference.. if it smoothes things while keeping all the details or maybe even revealing more, great.


----------



## Sonido

Heh with the Questyle and HD800 both being very transparent, all my observations on the clarity and intimacy could just be the inherent signature of my DC-1 DAC. I'll have to try out my other DACs tonight.


----------



## BleaK

Great impressions, thanks


----------



## roguegeek

Looks very promising as my higher end SS amp with preamps to pair with the HD 800. Where did you purchase from?


----------



## Sonido

Took a nap to refresh my mind after work. Upon listening again the intimacy is even more evident. It's really quite unbelievable to hear the once unnaturally wide soundstage of the HD800 sound like this.

I think so far the only "negative" thing I can say about this amp it neither brings out bass body nor treble airiness, but it definitely seems mid-centric.


----------



## Sonido

Compared Modi vs DC-1 as DAC. Before I could not really tell a difference, but with a transparent amp like the Questyle, I can clearly hear more subtle details and better decay on the DC-1. Also some of that intimacy and musicality comes from the DC-1.


----------



## Headtrip

FWIW my PSAudio PerfectWaveII rocks my new Questyle and HD800s.


----------



## Sanlitun

sonido said:


> Compared Modi vs DC-1 as DAC. Before I could not really tell a difference, but with a transparent amp like the Questyle, I can clearly hear more subtle details and better decay on the DC-1. Also some of that intimacy and musicality comes from the DC-1.


 
  
  
 In my case I could certainly hear the difference between DACs with the CMA800R, and found it will even show the characteristic sound and flaws with each particular DAC architecture. What this has meant for me is that after a while with the CMA800R I didn't like the sound of the Sabre based DACs I had heard and had to look for alternatives.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Took a nap to refresh my mind after work. Upon listening again the intimacy is even more evident. It's really quite unbelievable to hear the once unnaturally wide soundstage of the HD800 sound like this.
> 
> I think so far the only "negative" thing I can say about this amp it neither brings out bass body nor treble airiness, but it definitely seems mid-centric.


 
 More intimacy. So does that mean instrument separation is less as well?


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> More intimacy. So does that mean instrument separation is less as well?


 

 Not at all because the congestion level is really low it's easier to focus on micro-details and you hear things you haven't heard before. It's hard to explain, but one of the first things I noticed was a blacker background even though I always thought the Vali was already pretty black and congestion free. The Questyle takes it to a whole new level. But the intimacy part makes the the HD800 not thin sounding like through the Vali.


----------



## roguegeek

Stop selling me!


----------



## hydesg

Heres my current setup paired with hd800 and lcd2. Unbelievable!!!!!!


----------



## project86

hydesg said:


> Heres my current setup paired with hd800 and lcd2. Unbelievable!!!!!!


 
  
  
 Very nice!


----------



## 00lunar

I can see in near future the same thing with black DP-777SE (or CAS192) on board


----------



## Sonido

project86 are you sure the CMA800R has a very low output impedance? I found that while there was no hiss or background noise with the K812, I found it congested and the bass a bit boomy in comparison to the HD800. It could just be the Questyle doing an amazing job on the HD800 making everything else sound congested, and I do remember finding the Questyle to sound slightly better than Vali for K812 yesterday. I'll have to compare again today to confirm.


----------



## project86

Yep, measures under .5 ohm (as does the Questyle Q192 amp section as well). Apparently this is a byproduct of their current mode amplification technology, so it should be similar on all their products with headphone output. 
  
 Perhaps you just don't love the K812? You wouldn't be the first person I've heard that from.


----------



## twsmith

hydesg said:


> Heres my current setup paired with hd800 and lcd2. Unbelievable!!!!!!





> Have you compared how the HD800s sound using one amp (single ended) vs your dual mono (balanced) set up shown above?    Considering that the CMA800R already sounds fantastic with the HD800s as a single-ended amp, I'm sure many of us would like to know just how much better two are!


----------



## Sonido

twsmith said:


> Amps:
> Headroom BUDA
> Headamp GS1
> Headamp GS-X
> ...


 

 Could you compare the Questyle and the GS-X, and why you liked the Questyle better with the HD800? The GS-X is quite a legendary pairing with the HD800 from what I hear.
  
 If anyone else has heard both the Questyle and the GS-X, care to share what you liked about each and if you preferred one over the other, and why. Thanks.


----------



## dleblanc343

So got a sneak peak at work today 



No time to hook up a DAC at work, and only tried HD650, Momentum, IE800, HE500, Alpha Dogs and Spirit Professional.

Oddly enough, all the Senns paired best (warm sounding models in general), both planars sounded abnormally bright and the Spirit Pro was harsh as heck! All in all though, very impressed by the sonics straight from portable into the amp.

This sunday I'll be giving it a go with my NAD M51, HD800 and HE6. I'll put it up against stiff competition in terms of amps: my current modded McIntosh MC225 and a custom made SPUD derivative.


----------



## Sonido

^ Nice! cant wait to hear your impressions with a proper DAC and the HD800. Like many others have mentioned, I find this amp to be a one trick pony with the HD800 (and other Sennheisers like you mentioned or maybe 300 ohm headphones? After all, the specs on the website are tested on 300 ohms). But that one trick it does with the HD800, it does oh so well!


----------



## dleblanc343

sonido said:


> ^ Nice! cant wait to hear your impressions with a proper DAC and the HD800. Like many others have mentioned, I find this amp to be a one trick pony with the HD800 (and other Sennheisers like you mentioned or maybe 300 ohm headphones? After all, the specs on the website are tested on 300 ohms). But that one trick it does with the HD800, it does oh so well!


 
 So far it's hard to analyse it. It has very peculiar responses with certain headphones.
  
 All Senns sounded good. Never heard the HD650 sound so open and good (usually dislike that phone). Same goes for momentum. IE800 became even more colored and bass monsters (but enjoyable and very competent technically). The HE500 which is usually laid-back was harsh up top. Alpha Dogs lost their neutrality and became etched up high. And the spirit pro, which is forward sounding; became a shrill mess.
  
 I have no idea what to expect!


----------



## twsmith

sonido said:


> Could you compare the Questyle and the GS-X, and why you liked the Questyle better with the HD800? The GS-X is quite a legendary pairing with the HD800 from what I hear.
> 
> If anyone else has heard both the Questyle and the GS-X, care to share what you liked about each and if you preferred one over the other, and why. Thanks.


 
 It's been a little while since I had the GS-X (MkI version) but at the time I had that amp, I always felt in was just a bit lacking in overall refinement for my taste.  It certainly handled the HD800s well but in retrospect I didn't think it reached as "deeply" into the sound nor had the same emotional impact as the CMA800R does.   This may not be a fair comparison though, since I'm basing my comparison on the older MkI version, and not the newer MKII GS-X.  I suspect in all fairness, the Questyle and GS-X MkII may be much more similar than different.


----------



## Sonido

project86 you need to get us Tyll's take on this amp, especially when paired with HD800.


----------



## kaesar94

sonido said:


> @project86 you need to get us Tyll's take on this amp, especially when paired with HD800.


 
 I'm waiting too this moment...


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> @project86 you need to get us Tyll's take on this amp, especially when paired with HD800.


 
 This absolutely needs to happen!


----------



## hekeli

Does anyone get physical transformer hum/buzz from inside the case? I'm sitting pretty near it so I can hear it quite well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I opened the case and tightened the transformer bolt which was pretty loose, no help.
  
 PS. Why the hell did they use the most crappy small allen key bolts on the lid, sure way to strip them useless even if you are really careful. It's not like the drilled bolt holes felt very smooth either, some needed more force. I know I know, it's from China but..


----------



## project86

roguegeek said:


> This absolutely needs to happen!


 
  
 One of these days it likely will.
  
  


hekeli said:


> Does anyone get physical transformer hum/buzz from inside the case? I'm sitting pretty near it so I can hear it quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's the first I've heard of it. Definitely get with Questyle about handling the situation - they will take care of you for sure.


----------



## hydesg

twsmith said:


>


 
 sounded even better. first thing i noticed was how deep the bass extended and tightly.
 i hear even more things that I have not heard in the track. imagine was quite well improved as well. overall a superb upgrade. This is with the HD800.
  
 with the LCD2, the bass gets abit boomy, but overall still superb. has that very intimate sound.


----------



## hydesg

dleblanc343 said:


> So far it's hard to analyse it. It has very peculiar responses with certain headphones.
> 
> All Senns sounded good. Never heard the HD650 sound so open and good (usually dislike that phone). Same goes for momentum. IE800 became even more colored and bass monsters (but enjoyable and very competent technically). The HE500 which is usually laid-back was harsh up top. Alpha Dogs lost their neutrality and became etched up high. And the spirit pro, which is forward sounding; became a shrill mess.
> 
> I have no idea what to expect!


 
 just wondering what do you mean by etched up high? 
 I have the alpha dogs coming in 2 weeks time though.


----------



## Sonido

hydesg said:


> sounded even better. first thing i noticed was how deep the bass extended and tightly.
> i hear even more things that I have not heard in the track. imagine was quite well improved as well. overall a superb upgrade. This is with the HD800.
> 
> with the LCD2, the bass gets abit boomy, but overall still superb. has that very intimate sound.


 
 Do think it's worth it to get a second one? At $1000-1500 for one, it seems to beat competitors like Mjolnir and BHA-1 according to general consensus, and can give more expensive ones like the Taurus a run for the money, if not be on par or better for the HD800. But at 2x, it starts competing in the same price range against amps like the GS-X or the Bakoon.


----------



## dleblanc343

hydesg said:


> just wondering what do you mean by etched up high?
> I have the alpha dogs coming in 2 weeks time though.



The headphone is amazing. Its just with this amp that its a bit more forward a tad brightish


----------



## hydesg

sonido said:


> Do think it's worth it to get a second one? At $1000-1500 for one, it seems to beat competitors like Mjolnir and BHA-1 according to general consensus, and can give more expensive ones like the Taurus a run for the money, if not be on par or better for the HD800. But at 2x, it starts competing in the same price range against amps like the GS-X or the Bakoon.


 
 i think its well worth its price.
 single ended i thought it bests the alo studio six


----------



## twsmith

hekeli said:


> Does anyone get physical transformer hum/buzz from inside the case? I'm sitting pretty near it so I can hear it quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It sounds like you may have a problem with DC offset ("DC in the AC") affecting the transformer and causing it to hum.  I had a severe problem with buzzing some years ago in an older Creek amplifier, and determined that it originated with the line (mains) current where I lived at that time.  You could try a simple test -- if possible, take your amp to another place that has a different mains supply -- maybe where you work, another person's house, etc. - see if you still have the buzzing, if it goes away, then it probably is DC offset.   Doing a web search will turn up a variety of possible solutions for this.   However I would first suggest contacting Questyle to discuss this problem with them, since they may have had other complaints about this and can offer some guidance.   It appears that some transformer designs may be more sensitive to DC offset than others.


----------



## igormsk

I've got 3 headphones - HD800 (300 ohm), DT660 (32 ohm) and IEMs Shure SE215 (20 ohm). With HD800 the amp is absolutely silent, but with DT660 I hear hiss all the time no matter how high I set the volume - it's quite anoing when playing music without much dynamic range compression (nearly all recordings of classical music). When I plug my SE215 the hiss becomes so loud that makes listening to music unenjoyable.
  
 I also tried plugging the same headphones into Yulong DA8 and Audio-GD NFB10.32 and got the same result - silence with HD800 and hiss (on DA8 not so loud but still present) with the other 2 headphones
 Changing volume on the CMA800R and DA8 doesn't affect the hiss at all. On NFB10.32 the hiss volume changes significantly with volume settings (but not with gain settings) and is just audible on normal listening levels with DT660 and really disturbing with SE215.
  
 Is there something wrong with my power at home or is this amp not suitable even for full size DT660 headphones? Would Yulong P18 help me to get rid of this hiss issue with low resistance headphones?
 Before ordering P18 I could borrow http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=04&id=AC-210E - would it make sence?
  
 If I plug DT660 into my notebook directly I don't hear any hiss (with SE215 there is some hiss but at a much lower level than on CMA800R / DA8 / NFB10.32).


----------



## Chodi

Igormsk-
  
 If you have a battery backup unit available for one of your computers I would suggest the following to try to isolate the problem. Make sure the unit is fully charged and disconnect it from the wall power.  Plug in your amp and see if you get the hiss when it is on battery power. You will note that most of those type units only have one or two sockets which are active without wall power. It may only power the amp for a very few minutes but enough to test. The IEM's may hiss anyway but the other headphones should be silent unless you apply a lot of gain. If that is quiet then you need a power conditioner. Since you have three amps (one in the DA8) that have this hiss I suspect your power line.


----------



## igormsk

I don't have any UPS with sin-wave (I'm not sure if I can plug this audio equipment into cheap stepped voltage UPS) to try..


----------



## Chodi

igormsk said:


> I don't have any UPS with sin-wave (I'm not sure if I can plug this audio equipment into cheap stepped voltage UPS) to try..


 
 For the purpose of this experiment I don't see that it would matter. You are only powering the amp for moments to test. The ups purpose is to replace your wall power in an outage. If it does not prove a valid test you have lost nothing. I do not see how it could harm your equipment since it is a substitute for your wall power. I don't really see affordable ups with decent sin-wave but I don't think it is relevant.


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## Vangelis

John, did you ever get to trying the Auralic Vega Dac with Questyle CMA800?


----------



## project86

vangelis said:


> John, did you ever get to trying the Auralic Vega Dac with Questyle CMA800?


 
  
  
 No, most of my time with Vega has not been in my own system. I had one come through briefly but only had time to use it with the matching Taurus amp. I see no reason why it wouldn't make a great combo though - I go the other direction and use Questyle's CAS192 with the Taurus all the time, with excellent results.


----------



## Vangelis

project86 said:


> No, most of my time with Vega has not been in my own system. I had one come through briefly but only had time to use it with the matching Taurus amp. I see no reason why it wouldn't make a great combo though - I go the other direction and use Questyle's CAS192 with the Taurus all the time, with excellent results.


 

 Makes sense, the Vega would probably work fine with the CMA800. The CAS192 is likely voiced similar to the the Vega (not too tipped up) or it wouldn't work so well with the sometimes aggressive HD800s.


----------



## project86

vangelis said:


> Makes sense, the Vega would probably work fine with the CMA800. The CAS192 is likely voiced similar to the the Vega (not too tipped up) or it wouldn't work so well with the sometimes aggressive HD800s.


 
  
 Yep, CAS192 is very similar. Wish I had the Vega here longer for direct comparisons.


----------



## roguegeek

Quite interested in hearing more comparisons between the CAS192 and CMA800R, especially when paired with a couple different higher end cans.


----------



## project86

roguegeek said:


> Quite interested in hearing more comparisons between the CAS192 and CMA800R, especially when paired with a couple different higher end cans.


 
  
  
 CAS192 is the DAC, and CMA800R is the amp, both from Questyle. Not sure what comparisons could be done. Did you mean Taurus versus CMA800R?


----------



## roguegeek

project86 said:


> CAS192 is the DAC, and CMA800R is the amp, both from Questyle. Not sure what comparisons could be done. Did you mean Taurus versus CMA800R?


 
 Been gone for the last week and a half and my brain goes to mush. I mean the CMA800R vs the Q192.


----------



## dleblanc343

project86 said:


> CAS192 is the DAC, and CMA800R is the amp, both from Questyle. Not sure what comparisons could be done. *Did you mean Taurus versus CMA800R?*


 
 I sent you a PM regarding this question.. It would be fun if you shared in depth thoughts either by private or public message.
  
 If not, I'll have to buy two CMA800R's AND a Taurus MKII


----------



## jacal01

Add the Cambridge Audio 851D to the list of DACs with digital volume control and a pre-amp (and headphone amp) stage with balanced outputs.


----------



## deadie

I've been reading up on the CMA800R to pair with my LCD-X and soon to arrive Chord Hugo.  
  
 I recently demo'd the GSX-MkII and Senn HDVA600 at the SoCal meet, and the Auralic Taurus MkII at Stereo Unlimited here in San Diego.
  
 At $1,500, the CMA800R and the Senn amp are the cheapest of the bunch.  The Master 9 is in that $ ballpark as well.
  
 With my LCD-X the GSX sounded amazing, very full, and is just a beauty.  It's very expensive, and the wait is just too long.  The Taurus had massive balls, bass galore, and very musical.  
  
 I currently have the Senn amp at home, and it sounds quite good, musical, has great synergy with the LCD-X and of course Senn's HD800, but the Taurus has considerably more power and is able to punch with greater bass impact at equal volume.  The bass is very strong, hits hard, hits fast and then fades instantly.  It's worth the $500 premium to me, and so the Senn is likely going back.
  
 I only listened to the Taurus in balanced mode, and regret not switching over to SE given what I've read about that output's distinct character.
  
 I've been chatting with Mr. Alden Zhao of Questyle and he informed me today that the company will be exhibiting at the upcoming T.H.E. Show next month in Irvine, CA. 
  
 Hopefully the CMA800R will have that musical essence / character I'm looking for, with decent power.  As Project86 cited in his review, one can always add another unit for greater dynamics.  I'm really hoping Questyle will have that mono-balanced setup at THE Show.
  
 Ah, such problems to ponder.  Buy a single CMA800R now, and perhaps scale up in the future.  Or pay a bit more for the Taurus...


----------



## project86

Yes, it's a tough choice..... just yesterday I was using the Hugo alternating between Taurus mkII and CMA800R, driving LCD-XC, TH900, HD800, Alpha Dogs.... wow, both amps are extremely impressive. Honestly I think it's a win for the buyer no matter which way they go.


----------



## eantala

I have a hd800 so was really looking seriously at the CMA800R, but I now have a LCD X coming in tomorrow.
  
 Now wondering if CMA800R is still the best choice or the Taurus.


----------



## project86

eantala said:


> I have a hd800 so was really looking seriously at the CMA800R, but I now have a LCD X coming in tomorrow.
> 
> Now wondering if CMA800R is still the best choice or the Taurus.


 
  
  
 I suppose it depends on which headphone ends up being your favorite. If it's HD800 then I'd go CMA800R. If it's the Audeze, stick with Taurus. Not that each one will still perform at a very high level at all times..... So Questyle still does Audeze very well, and AURALiC still does marvelous with HD800.


----------



## kaesar94

project86 said:


> I suppose it depends on which headphone ends up being your favorite. If it's HD800 then I'd go CMA800R. If it's the Audeze, stick with Taurus. Not that each one will still perform at a very high level at all times..... So Questyle still does Audeze very well, and AURALiC still does marvelous with HD800.


 
 The question is: in a score from 0 to 100...with Audezes, how much is better the Taurus than the CMA800R? With HD800, how much is better the CMA800R than the Taurus? That's the point if you have both Audezes and Senn.


----------



## project86

Dang, tough question! If I say my Stax Omega II is perfection, then I'd arbitrarily call HD800 on the CMA800R a 95/100. Taurus makes it a solid 90. LCD-XC on the Taurus is also a 95, and on the CMA800R it is a 90. 
  
 Of course these numbers are silly, because it really depends on a number of factors. For classical, I tend to choose the HD800 every time. For electronic music, the LCD-XC is a better choice. Poor recordings do better with the Audeze. Etc, etc. Plus there's the matter of source matching, which brings a whole new set of variables.


----------



## Chodi

project86 said:


> Dang, tough question! If I say my Stax Omega II is perfection, then I'd arbitrarily call HD800 on the CMA800R a 95/100. Taurus makes it a solid 90. LCD-XC on the Taurus is also a 95, and on the CMA800R it is a 90.
> 
> Of course these numbers are silly, because it really depends on a number of factors. For classical, I tend to choose the HD800 every time. For electronic music, the LCD-XC is a better choice. Poor recordings do better with the Audeze. Etc, etc. Plus there's the matter of source matching, which brings a whole new set of variables.


 
 I wonder if you are comparing the SE to SE between the amps and headphones? If you were to do this comparison fully balanced (requiring 2 CMA800r) would your numbers change? I suspect they might.


----------



## twsmith

chodi said:


> I wonder if you are comparing the SE to SE between the amps and headphones? If you were to do this comparison fully balanced (requiring 2 CMA800r) would your numbers change? I suspect they might.


 
 Good question -- I believe project86 was commenting on the CMA800R used SE (i.e. one amp) since at the time of his original review of the CM800 (not R), he did not have 2 of them.   I am using just one Questyle with my HD800 and the SE sound quality is simply incredible.  I have used my HD800 balanced with other amps, including the MkI version of the GS-X as well as the direct balanced output from my Invicta DAC, and I can unequivocally say that the SE CMA800R is better than either one.  So to put this in perspective, I would say that the HD800 with 2 CMA800R would probably result in marginally better SQ improvement, considering that the SE is probably already about 95/100.   I might add that usually the situation is not so much that balanced is "better" but often just different - some may like this difference, others may not.   Having used various headphones in both balanced and SE configurations over the years, I must say that SE done "right" can sound at least as good as if not better than balanced.   Relative to the Taurus MkII vs CMA800R, I do not have the Auralic, but I believe project86 did mention that with the HD800, the balanced output from the Taurus sounded very similar to the SE Questyle.   I would imagine though the using 2 CMA800R with the LCD-XC would pretty much equal things out.


----------



## eantala

love the idea of getting an amp specifically designed for the hd800.
  
 has anyone heard both Questyle and  a Sennheiser HDVA 600 ?  they are priced the same and both designed with the hd800 in mind..


----------



## hekeli

After a lot of hassle, I received a new CMA800R. There's still minor humming/buzzing that comes and goes. Atleast it's not the more highpitched BZZZZZZZZZ - I hope it stays this way..


----------



## kaesar94

eantala said:


> love the idea of getting an amp specifically designed for the hd800.
> 
> has anyone heard both Questyle and  a Sennheiser HDVA 600 ?  they are priced the same and both designed with the hd800 in mind..


 
 After several comments on this and many other forums (also from people who has heard both), i've to think that Questyle has done a better job in the creation of a very specific amp for the HD800. IMHO.


----------



## NicoD6

I recently had the chance to try this amp with the HD800 and the NAD M51 and i was truly impressed by the overall dynamics and especially by the effortless treble reproduction/extension but i still find the HD800 a bit too cold for my taste on this setup. Has anyone spent enough time with the CMA800r comparing the HD800 to any Hifiman Planar magnetic headphone to tell if this amp is versatile enough to perform almost as well with these?


----------



## Sanlitun

nicod6 said:


> I recently had the chance to try this amp with the HD800 and the NAD M51 and i was truly impressed by the overall dynamics and especially by the effortless treble reproduction/extension but i still find the HD800 a bit too cold for my taste on this setup. Has anyone spent enough time with the CMA800r comparing the HD800 to any Hifiman Planar magnetic headphone to tell if this amp is versatile enough to perform almost as well with these?


 
  
  
 I have the HE-500 and they sound about as good as they can get on this setup. In fact I prefer them over the LCD-X on this amp as the Audeze is too sensitive for the CMA800R, and it's difficult to get the volume right.
  
 To some extent I would say this amp is overkill for the HE-500 though, and those phones will never match its abilities. In my opinion it might be better served by LCD-2 or 3.


----------



## NicoD6

That's very good to know. I'm actually looking foward to pair this amp with the upcoming HE560


----------



## NicoD6

What about the synergy with the HE500 and CMA800r? I tried it once, but it was brief and the source was an iphone. From what i remember, it sounded bright. Maybe because it brought out the 10khz spike on the 500?


----------



## zeissiez

Just compared the CMA800R next to a SPL Phonitor, with a AudioGd REF5.32 DAC, and a pair of HD800. To my ears, the SPL is a better amp for this setup.


----------



## zeissiez

The setup


----------



## project86

nicod6 said:


> What about the synergy with the HE500 and CMA800r? I tried it once, but it was brief and the source was an iphone. From what i remember, it sounded bright. Maybe because it brought out the 10khz spike on the 500?


 
  
 I like the combo, but as you say, can be a little bright at times. That's just the HE-500 in general, no fault of the CMA800R. I'd say it's very enjoyable 90% of the time, and kind of annoying the remaining 10%. I might actually prefer the HE-400 with this particular amp, though with my Taurus mkII I prefer HE-500. Music choice plays a big role as well. 
  
  


zeissiez said:


> Just compared the CMA800R next to a SPL Phonitor, with a AudioGd REF5.32 DAC, and a pair of HD800. To my ears, the SPL is a better amp for this setup.


 
  
 Interesting - I personally disliked the Phonitor and sold mine long ago. Are you using the various sound controls to contribute to the end result? I did like messing with those, but felt the amp itself was nowhere near as good as it should have been for the price.


----------



## zeissiez

project86 said:


> I like the combo, but as you say, can be a little bright at times. That's just the HE-500 in general, no fault of the CMA800R. I'd say it's very enjoyable 90% of the time, and kind of annoying the remaining 10%. I might actually prefer the HE-400 with this particular amp, though with my Taurus mkII I prefer HE-500. Music choice plays a big role as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting - I personally disliked the Phonitor and sold mine long ago. Are you using the various sound controls to contribute to the end result? I did like messing with those, but felt the amp itself was nowhere near as good as it should have been for the price.


 
  
 I was also surprise, because I expected the CMA800R, being specially designed for HD800 should be better. I found the Phonitor to have more air between the instruments, and sounded more articulated. Tonal balance, no big difference between the two. I have hoped that CMA800R to give a fuller, thicker tone to HD800, but not quite. Interestingly, the Questyle Q192 was pretty balance sounding than the other two amps, less bright, fuller, more weighty in the bottom relative to the top, although technically it's no where near the other two amps.


----------



## Priidik

Maybe that dac has better synergy with Phonitor? Someone somewhere said that Audio Gd stuff makes HD800 sound more sterile than these cans should.


----------



## twsmith

priidik said:


> Maybe that dac has better synergy with Phonitor? Someone somewhere said that Audio Gd stuff makes HD800 sound more sterile than these cans should.


 
 It sounds to me very much like a dac-amp synergy issue -- a number of users have commented on the excellent synergy of the CMA800R with a variety dacs other than the AudioGd.  I'm sure this is true to large degree with almost any dac-amp combo, and you also need to factor in personal preferences as well.   This is one advantage of using an external dac with an amp - you can experiment with what sounds best to your ears.   A "high transparency" amp such as the CMA800R has a particular advantage in this respect since it makes it a little easier to compare the SQ of different dacs.


----------



## zeissiez

twsmith said:


> It sounds to me very much like a dac-amp synergy issue -- a number of users have commented on the excellent synergy of the CMA800R with a variety dacs other than the AudioGd.  I'm sure this is true to large degree with almost any dac-amp combo, and you also need to factor in personal preferences as well.   This is one advantage of using an external dac with an amp - you can experiment with what sounds best to your ears.   A "high transparency" amp such as the CMA800R has a particular advantage in this respect since it makes it a little easier to compare the SQ of different dacs.


 
 No idea, because I have only one DAC here.


----------



## zeissiez

This is really really nice, SE846+CMA800R.


----------



## lithium1085

zeissiez said:


> This is really really nice, SE846+CMA800R.


 
  
 How much can you adjust the volume before blowing your ears?


----------



## zeissiez

I listen at about 8 O'Clock. I think at 11 the loudness is unbearable.


----------



## zeissiez

Anyone has auditioned both the Auralic Taurus II and CMA800R?


----------



## zeissiez

After pro-longed listening, I do grow to like the CMA800R with HD800. The vocal has a better focus than SPL Phonitor. And each note feels more substantial. However I still feel it lacks a bit of layering compared to Phonitor. I wonder if the Taurus Mk II is better than the CMA800R.


----------



## project86

Another review that I just noticed today. Seems like he hears pretty much the same thing I hear. 
  
 In other news, I've finally got another CMA800R on the way to me. Can't wait to give that a try with balanced HD800.


----------



## marcusd

Yup this is a keeper amp for me project86 and like you I had a lot of fun with it. 

I am also suffering now from envy on your impending monoblock experience hehe


----------



## project86

I don't know what to expect. Never tried monoblocks for headphones before.


----------



## marcusd

I am sure it will take it up a notch or two but I am not convinced headphone users will be tempted by the monoblock approach favored by hi-fi fans to be honest.
  
 I asked why not just go for the 4-pin XLR and be done with it but never really got a convincing response or perhaps I did and missed it somewhere in all the current mode discussion.


----------



## project86

It seems the big draw is not merely balanced operation, but rather with the fully isolated dual mono configuration. A regular balanced headphone amp will sometimes have separation between each "half" of the amp, for better isolation. Usually it's all in the same enclosure though. Once in a while you'll get separate power supplies for each side but usually it is shared. 
  
 I think the CMA800R is Questyle's investigation into having completely separate and isolated power supplies, input stages, etc. The only way to carry this idea out to the fullest is to have a single 3-pin XLR on each separate amp. 
  
 Will it matter? I will let you know once I form an opinion.


----------



## dbalvo

Has anyone had an opportunity to compare the CMA800R with the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold?  I have a CMA800R and I think it sounds fantastic - best amp I've heard with my other equipment.  That said, some of the reviews for the Liquid Gold are just over the top.  Listening with a NAD M51 DAC and Audeze XC cans - thanks!


----------



## deadie

dbalvo said:


> Has anyone had an opportunity to compare the CMA800R with the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold?  I have a CMA800R and I think it sounds fantastic - best amp I've heard with my other equipment.  That said, some of the reviews for the Liquid Gold are just over the top.  Listening with a NAD M51 DAC and Audeze XC cans - thanks!


 
  
 I've heard the Liquid Gold amp and it truly does sound great, however, not sufficiently great to my ears given the very high pricepoint.  As such, my primary / coveted amp is the Headamp GSX-MkII, it sounds simply stellar.  It's at the very edge of my price threshold, but its severely limited availability pretty much keeps it out of my reach for a year.
  
 As such, for alternatives, I recently demo'd the Auralic Taurus MkII and have ordered the Questyle CMA800R.  The Taurus sounded fantastic, massively powerful and musical, and is considerably cheaper than the former two. Given the Questyle's even lower price and very good reviews, I'm hoping _that's it_ for a while when paired with my LCD-X and incoming Chord Hugo.
  
 Part of me is hoping for Project86 to say "nah, dual mono's aren't worth it" for my wallet's sake, but... in the event that it does make a difference, please convey how the lone Taurus stacks up to the combined pair, along with a comparison to the GSX-MkII!


----------



## dbalvo

Yeah, I've been contemplating the dual CMA800R setup, but I figure that price is the most of the cost of the Liquid Gold.  So, I'm just trying to get a sense if I'm better off investing my money there.  I am absolutely happy with the CMA800R, but it is the nature of the thing to lust after what you don't have.  Once you get yours, I'll be interested to hear your comparisons.


----------



## kaesar94

project86 said:


> Another review that I just noticed today. Seems like he hears pretty much the same thing I hear.
> 
> In other news, I've finally got another CMA800R on the way to me. Can't wait to give that a try with balanced HD800.


 
 Oh c'mon.....we can't wait anymore!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
 I'm very curious to say how much improvement can get with CMA800R in monoblock (with HD800 mainly)


----------



## project86

Ha! Sorry, I'm not deliberately holding back. Just need some time to spend with the combo.


----------



## Sonido

project86 said:


> Ha! Sorry, I'm not deliberately holding back. Just need some time to spend with the combo.



So I assume differences aren't immediate, and doesn't jump out on first listen?


----------



## Carlsan

I have the  CMA800R combo as well. To me the biggest improvement is  with hard to drive cans. Both my LCD 3's and HiFman 6 seem to have a better sound. 
 Of course this is also hard to tell apart, as by the time you are behind your stereo equipment, reconnecting everything, and sit down again to listen, you have forgotten how exactly it sounded like before you made the changes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 However, like I said, I did notice an improvement with those two headphones.


----------



## kaesar94

carlsan said:


> I have the  CMA800R combo as well. To me the biggest improvement is  with hard to drive cans. Both my LCD 3's and HiFman 6 seem to have a better sound.
> Of course this is also hard to tell apart, as by the time you are behind your stereo equipment, reconnecting everything, and sit down again to listen, you have forgotten how exactly it sounded like before you made the changes...
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your opinion of the combo HD800/CMA800R? Better pairing than BHA-1/HD800?


----------



## Carlsan

kaesar94 said:


> Your opinion of the combo HD800/CMA800R? Better pairing than BHA-1/HD800?


 
 Good question, I have been trying to get at that answer myself for weeks.
 But the effort has been half hearted, as I quickly find myself enjoying the headphones and not listening critically. 
 Both amp/amp combo really make the HD800 shine IMHO.
  
 Perhaps more sensitive ears can hear a big difference, so far I have not. If I do notice a difference,  I will be sure to post. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## tdegrand

Deadie,
  
 Have you received your Questyle yet?  I am really interested in the comparison to the Auralic Taurus and GSX-MKII.


----------



## tdegrand

deadie said:


> I've heard the Liquid Gold amp and it truly does sound great, however, not sufficiently great to my ears given the very high pricepoint.  As such, my primary / coveted amp is the Headamp GSX-MkII, it sounds simply stellar.  It's at the very edge of my price threshold, but its severely limited availability pretty much keeps it out of my reach for a year.
> 
> As such, for alternatives, I recently demo'd the Auralic Taurus MkII and have ordered the Questyle CMA800R.  The Taurus sounded fantastic, massively powerful and musical, and is considerably cheaper than the former two. Given the Questyle's even lower price and very good reviews, I'm hoping _that's it_ for a while when paired with my LCD-X and incoming Chord Hugo.
> 
> Part of me is hoping for Project86 to say "nah, dual mono's aren't worth it" for my wallet's sake, but... in the event that it does make a difference, please convey how the lone Taurus stacks up to the combined pair, along with a comparison to the GSX-MkII!


 
  
 Deadie,
  
 Have you received your Questyle yet?  I am really interested in the comparison to the Auralic Taurus and GSX-MKII.


----------



## deadie

tdegrand said:


> Deadie,
> Have you received your Questyle yet?  I am really interested in the comparison to the Auralic Taurus and GSX-MKII.


 
  
 I got the CMA800R in on Thur, so it's still early days yet with burning in the amp.  As it stands right now, to my ears the synergy with the LCD-X is stronger with the Taurus and GSX-MkII.  I might hold off a while to pick up a HD800, but in the interim will likely buy a HD600/650 since they're inexpensive and Senns pair well with the Que.  
  
 UERMs sound fantastic with this amp, though would love to have had a low gain toggle.
  
 My Chord Hugo arrived yesterday and it's been interesting to hear the change in tone the CMA800R applies, vs. direct output from the Hugo.


----------



## tRuE008

hekeli said:


> Does anyone get physical transformer hum/buzz from inside the case? I'm sitting pretty near it so I can hear it quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you find a solution? I got a buzz/hum that started yesterday for the first time. After an hour of play time, it stopped. When I turned it on today, it was fine until an hour in then the buzz/hum started and haven't stopped since. It's been 8 hours now and there is still a buzz/hum. Doesn't seem to affect the sound quality, but is very annoying since I can hear it. By the way, I bought the amp in January and I haven't had an issue since. If there is no solution, then I'll send it back and see if they can send me a replacement.


----------



## hekeli

true008 said:


> Did you find a solution? I got a buzz/hum that started yesterday for the first time.


 
  
 Seller sent me a new one which is fine so far, you can only hear it from few inches away. I'm sure the original seller or Questyle directly will handle it for you, Alden Zhao from Questyle was very helpful and didn't think it was normal. But it sucks to ship these back and forth. Drop a complaining note to Alden anyway, maybe they can improve new builds from the feedback.


----------



## project86

After spending some time with the dual CMA800R setup, being driven by the CAS192D (the D stands for DSD!), or alternately by my Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus, I've noticed a few things.
  
 First off, the dual volume control is not as bad as I thought. I remember having dual volume on my old DarkVoice 337SE tube amp and found it very frustrating. For some reason this setup seems easier to get a good match - even when using the CAS192D which does not have volume control, I was able to comfortably adjust levels with a variety of headphones. I could have sworn Questyle originally told me the CMA800R used in dual mono mode would deactivate the individual volume control, putting out a full scale signal at all times. Either I'm remembering it wrong or else they rethought that decision. Either way I'm glad.
  
 The difference between a single CMA800R and dual is always there. But at times it feels larger or smaller based on the headphone. So far I'm finding simple to drive headphones like Grado PS500 don't benefit as much from the dual setup. There's a small improvement but certainly noting worth spending an extra $1500 on. Then I switch to a somewhat more difficult model like LCD-2, Alpha Dogs, and especially HE-6, and the difference is far more apparent. I need to compare more to AURALiC Taurus to be sure, but the dual CMA800R might be the best I've heard with HE-6. HD800 is sort of in the middle.... it _does _show improvement, but was already so terrific with a single amp that maybe it didn't have as much room to grow as the planars did. 
  
 I'm still playing with the volume control issue - some DACs have better implementations than others. The Invicta Mirus does a bang up job, as I'd expect a $5k DAC to do. Others like the Esoteric D-07x (similarly priced) unfortunately seem to lose fidelity in the process. With that DAC, or the CAS192D that has no volume control, I simply use the individual analog knobs and it works out just fine. 
  
 Anyway, I'll have a lot more to say as I get more time with these. Just wanted to give a quick update.


----------



## Carlsan

> Then I switch to a somewhat more difficult model like LCD-2, Alpha Dogs, and especially HE-6, and the difference is far more apparent.


 
  
 That's what I found too,  don't have the Alpha's but do have the LCD-3's, they sound better as well.
  
 Not all my headphones are balanced so I can't comment on others in my collection, including the T1's and TH900's. Been thinking about getting those balanced but just haven't gotten to that.


----------



## project86

carlsan said:


> That's what I found too,  don't have the Alpha's but do have the LCD-3's, they sound better as well.
> 
> Not all my headphones are balanced so I can't comment on others in my collection, including the T1's and TH900's. Been thinking about getting those balanced but just haven't gotten to that.


 
  
  
 I speculate the TH900 wouldn't benefit much, if at all, simply because it seems to easy to drive. The T1 probably would benefit from the extra voltage swing. I have TH900 and T1 here as well but alas, both (stock) SE termination.


----------



## twsmith

project86 said:


> HD800 is sort of in the middle.... it _does _show improvement, but was already so terrific with a single amp that maybe it didn't have as much room to grow as the planars did.


 
  
 In some ways, at least for me, this is good news.   Being basically a "HD800-only" person, I will almost surely defer buying another CMA800R just to go balanced.   As mentioned above, the HD800 and Questyle (single ended) are already an incredibly good match.


----------



## project86

twsmith said:


> In some ways, at least for me, this is good news.   Being basically a "HD800-only" person, I will almost surely defer buying another CMA800R just to go balanced.   As mentioned above, the HD800 and Questyle (single ended) are already an incredibly good match.


 
  
  
 Yeah, could be good news. Don't take this as my final word by any means though.... lots more listening to do and I could always have a revelation at some point in the future.


----------



## falcogol

Thank you project86
Now that you also have the CAS192d it would be great if you would share your experience with and comparison with the Mirus.


----------



## Khragon

Been following this thread.  The am very interested in this amp, as I'm researching a solid state amp to complement my WA22.  I like the WA22 with WE 422A, and TS BGRP drivers, I'm using TS 5998 now, but didn't notice that the power tube made that much of a difference (compared to Sylvania 7236), anyone experienced with my WA22 setup care to comment on how the CMA800R compares?  I like the setup for its clear and smooth sounding signature, I listens to mostly vocals, with some classical.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## project86

It's been a long time since I've heard the WA22. I remember liking it, but not quite loving it - of course, this could be a function of tube choice (I don't recall what tubes I heard). So unfortunately no real comparison to CMA800R.
  
 For what it's worth, vocals and classical are a big strength of the Questyle.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks, good to know vocals and classical are Questyle strengths.  I don't have the HD800 yet, so maybe I'll get the hp first, and then the amp.  For now, as you may have heard many times, looking forward to the monoblock review.


----------



## BleaK

Are there any here who has heard the Questyle in the chain with Matrix X-Sabre DAC and HD800? I am pretty close to order the questyle, but would like some confirmation that this IS a good pairing before I make the plunge.


----------



## project86

bleak said:


> Are there any here who has heard the Questyle in the chain with Matrix X-Sabre DAC and HD800? I am pretty close to order the questyle, but would like some confirmation that this IS a good pairing before I make the plunge.


 
  
  
 I was just using this combo the other day, while configuring Audirvana+ on a new MacBook Pro. It sounds damn good. X-Sabre gives it a bit more of a lively feel compared to the more neutral and resolving Questyle CAS192 DAC. Different flavors, and I enjoy them both.


----------



## BleaK

project86 said:


> I was just using this combo the other day, while configuring Audirvana+ on a new MacBook Pro. It sounds damn good. X-Sabre gives it a bit more of a lively feel compared to the more neutral and resolving Questyle CAS192 DAC. Different flavors, and I enjoy them both.


 
  
 Thank you! Hope you don't mind if I ask you some more questions? How is the treble sounding in this setup? I would hate for the HD800 to sound too harsh on top. The Vali is pretty bright, but it works in a weird way really nice with HD800. However, I want something a bit more controlled and relaxing in the top.


----------



## project86

I haven't heard the Vali so it's hard to make a comparison. I wouldn't call the X-Sabre "bright", but rather "exciting". It has a certain energy to it that tends to make things sound more bouncy, rhythmic, and engaging. It's a hard trait to explain. But no, I don't find it harsh up top. And it's definitely not thin sounding, which is bad for HD800.


----------



## Sonido

bleak said:


> Thank you! Hope you don't mind if I ask you some more questions? How is the treble sounding in this setup? I would hate for the HD800 to sound too harsh on top. The Vali is pretty bright, but it works in a weird way really nice with HD800. However, I want something a bit more controlled and relaxing in the top.



I have both and all I can say is that the Vali sounds unrefined and rough in comparison, and the Vali is already pretty refined sounding. This just goes to show how smooth the Questyle is.


----------



## Audiolic

So project86 how do you like the chord hugo dac and headphone amp


----------



## project86

audiolic said:


> So project86 how do you like the chord hugo dac and headphone amp


 
  
  
 I like it. A lot. It sounds easily on the level of some excellent desktop DACs and amps. Not sure it is the best DAC I've ever heard (ok, it's not....) but it certainly ranks up there near the top 5 or so. Which is saying a lot, since I've heard plenty of very expensive DACs. 
  
 It's hard to judge the value though..... do you really _need_ a portable solution of that caliber? The small size causes some trouble regarding which cables will fit, and having it on an audio rack is a bit awkward at times. Still, it's a phenomenal achievement considering the capabilities and size.


----------



## falcogol

I wonder if I'm invisible or something as no-one replies to my posts. 
For example I posted a question for project86 as to how cas192 compares to invicta mirus but there was no response from anyone. Whereas after my post there were debates about other dac, s.192


----------



## Chodi

falcogol said:


> I wonder if I'm invisible or something as no-one replies to my posts.
> For example I posted a question for project86 as to how cas192 compares to invicta mirus but there was no response from anyone. Whereas after my post there were debates about other dac, s.192


 
 You're new, hang in there you will get the hang of it. This can be a really friendly place just keep posting and you will fit right in.


----------



## falcogol

Thanks. At least l know now that I am being seen!


----------



## project86

Sorry, I subscribe to quite a few threads and must have missed your question. Sometimes I browse on my phone or iPad and make a mental note to reply later when I'm at a real computer..... but then I forget. 
  
 I need to spend a lot more time with the new CAS192D. But the original CAS192 was very similar to the CMA800R in terms of sound signature - neutral, fast, very transparent and highly resolving. Somehow, like the CMA800R, it doesn't come across as being super analytical, despite the focus on technical accuracy. It's definitely a contender with the better DACs in the price range like Anedio D2, BMC PureDAC, and the various Benchmark DAC 2 models. I very much prefer the CAS192 to the Burson Conductor, just as a point of reference. 
  
 Compared to Invicta Mirus, the CAS192 (and all the other DACs listed above) can't quite keep up. But that's no reflection of a flaw on their part.... rather a compliment on the Mirus that it can improve on these DACs, which are already excellent.


----------



## falcogol

Thank you project86. 
True, you are busy. 
I follow your posts so I know, yet put time to help others. 
Really nice of you.


----------



## twsmith

Just out of curiosity I noticed that Amazon is no longer offering the CMA800R for sale on their website (which is where I bought mine).   In fact, I was not able to find any online site that is selling the amp now.   Has the amp become so popular that their current stock is completely depleted or is the company looking for a new distributor?  Hopefully this does not mean that Questyle is no longer in business or cancelled production of this wonderful amp.


----------



## project86

There is a new authorized distributor who will be handling North America. I imagine he will have a dedicated site up soon. It's an industry veteran who has been around for a long time.


----------



## cavis

You may send an email to Stacy Chen at Shenzenaudio.com.
He orders the amps direct to Questyle factory and ship them the following day.
Very fair and quick communication with him.
I bought 2 amps to have balanced listening with my HD800.
Ordered on 04/25th, received at home in France with DHL (coming from Hong-Kong) on 05/05th.
I use them with preamp, amazing, better than everything I have listened till now.


----------



## Sylafari

Anyone know where to buy this in the US? Seems like no vendors are selling it


----------



## jacal01

If you look back on page 2 or so on this thread, you'll see that I bought my CMA-800 directly from Questyle.  Just set up an email dialog with them (address on their website - Alden Zhao), and then after a price is set, you'll need to do a direct bank wire transfer.  That's it.
  
 EDIT: If a North American distributer is in the process of being set up, as per project86's post above, there's just a short transition period that will have to be endured before they're available here again in the US.  Alden will be able to tell you if/when this is this case, and if a window still exists for a direct purchase from Questyle.  Otherwise, patience, grasshopper.


----------



## Sylafari

jacal01 said:


> If you look back on page 2 or so on this thread, you'll see that I bought my CMA-800 directly from Questyle.  Just set up an email dialog with them (address on their website - Alden Zhao), and then after a price is set, you'll need to do a direct bank wire transfer.  That's it.
> 
> EDIT: If a North American distributer is in the process of being set up, as per project86's post above, there's just a short transition period that will have to be endured before they're available here again in the US.  Alden will be able to tell you if/when this is this case, and if a window still exists for a direct purchase from Questyle.  Otherwise, patience, grasshopper.


 
  
 Patience, the one word I did not want to see


----------



## jacal01

If it's any consolation, the ability to delay gratification is recognized as a sign of maturity.


----------



## Sylafari

jacal01 said:


> If it's any consolation, the ability to delay gratification is recognized as a sign of maturity.


 
  
 I wish I could be patient but I think i'll move on from this amplifier, looking towards the Auralic Taurus MK II now.


----------



## jacal01

Burning a hole in your pocket, eh?
  
 Sounds like rationalization to me.  But OK.  You won't miss what you don't know.


----------



## project86

The Taurus is an excellent amp as well.... but before crossing Questyle off your list, I'd at least shoot them an email inquiring about purchasing in the USA. If they say something like "not for 5 months" and you don't want to wait that long, then the decision becomes easier. But perhaps they have some available for purchase right now. Wouldn't want to discount the option without exploring it fully right?


----------



## jacal01

Better response, project86.  I tend to be impatient with impatience.


----------



## BeyerMonster

FYI, I was poking around for more info and stumbled across this site that sells Questyle with "Free Worldwide Shipping". Not as nice as having a North American distributor, but it's an option.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Questyle
  
 Oops. They don't sell the amp.


----------



## jacal01

Unfortunately, 'not the mama' for the CMA-800R amp product.


----------



## BeyerMonster

jacal01 said:


> Unfortunately, 'not the mama' for the CMA-800R amp product.


 
 Oops. My bad. I was digging around for the CAS 192 when I found it.


----------



## Sylafari

project86 said:


> The Taurus is an excellent amp as well.... but before crossing Questyle off your list, I'd at least shoot them an email inquiring about purchasing in the USA. If they say something like "not for 5 months" and you don't want to wait that long, then the decision becomes easier. But perhaps they have some available for purchase right now. Wouldn't want to discount the option without exploring it fully right?


 
  
 I have sent an email to Alden Zhao, its been about a week plus with no response. I've found a seller on aliexpress but his site is fairly new and it seems like he is not a verified distributor. 
  
 Btw, thanks for the responses you guys have been very helpful.


----------



## Sylafari

Well, I ended up buying a used one from a fellow Head-fi member. So I guess i'll be getting the CMA800R after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and now the hunt for a matching DAC begins!).


----------



## cavis

Nice for you to have found one.
But if you want to have ultimate experience, really buy another one to have balanced listening.
You will enter in another world, at least as far as HD800 is concerned !


----------



## Sylafari

cavis said:


> Nice for you to have found one.
> But if you want to have ultimate experience, really buy another one to have balanced listening.
> You will enter in another world, at least as far as HD800 is concerned !


 
  
 I'll find a nice DAC first and than i'll hold off as any further purchases will kill my college budget.


----------



## Sylafari

It's here.


----------



## BleaK

Don't forget to post impressions!


----------



## Sylafari

After much deliberation, decided to go with the Yulong DA8 as the DAC for my setup, so far I have to use the DAC from my WA7 and I don't think its very good as when I used a 3.5mm to RCA on the AK240s, the AK240s sounded much more clearer and had better detail retrieval and a tighter harder hitting bass. Also for some reason the DAC through RCA OUT from the WA7 into the CMA800R sounds a bit grainier than just using the WA7 by itself (maybe the RCA Out isn't implemented well?). Also I plugged in a pair of Shure SE846s and there was a hiss that everyone was talking about but when music plays, most of the time the hiss is inaudible. Haven't heard the amplifier long enough to make a full impression. What I do know is that I've missed the instant loadup of a solid state amplifier over a tube amp that takes about 10 minutes to fully warm up and with the CMA800R that instant loadup is back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also runs a lot cooler than the WA7.


----------



## Sylafari

Apparently there's a Questyle CMA800i, it was on their news page for one of their latest events. Seems to be the CMA 800 with a WM8741 DAC built-in. Does DSD and all that jazz.
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/chanpin/20140527/298.html


----------



## NicoD6

sylafari said:


> Apparently there's a Questyle CMA800i, it was on their news page for one of their latest events. Seems to be the CMA 800 with a WM8741 DAC built-in. Does DSD and all that jazz.
> http://www.questyleaudio.com/chanpin/20140527/298.html




Thanks for the info! I'm definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## project86

Questyle mentioned the CMA800i to me a while back, and now that they have it on their site (sort of) I imagine it's ok to discuss.
  
 Basically the idea is to take a CMA800R amp and cram in a CAS192D DAC with as little compromise as possible. The headphone amp section loses the option for fully balanced dual-mono operation but is otherwise a full-fledged CMA800R. The DAC section uses mostly the same hardware as the real CAS192D, though I don't think they have room for a nice big display. I think the use of small LCD indicators was discussed as an alternative. As a 2-in-1 unit, it gives up some real estate to the double stack. So there isn't room for quite as much power supply regulation. But that's about the extent of the "compromise" involved.  
  
 I'll probably check it out once it becomes available, since I've already got experience with the stand-alone devices. Depending on how they price it, this could be a killer all-in-one.


----------



## jacal01

sylafari said:


> After much deliberation, decided to go with the Yulong DA8 as the DAC for my setup, so far I have to use the DAC from my WA7 and I don't think its very good as when I used a 3.5mm to RCA on the AK240s, the AK240s sounded much more clearer and had better detail retrieval and a tighter harder hitting bass. Also for some reason the DAC through RCA OUT from the WA7 into the CMA800R sounds a bit grainier than just using the WA7 by itself (maybe the RCA Out isn't implemented well?). Also I plugged in a pair of Shure SE846s and there was a hiss that everyone was talking about but when music plays, most of the time the hiss is inaudible. Haven't heard the amplifier long enough to make a full impression. What I do know is that I've missed the instant loadup of a solid state amplifier over a tube amp that takes about 10 minutes to fully warm up and with the CMA800R that instant loadup is back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Another poster, deadie, had complained about hearing graininess with his CMA800R unit.  I sort of dismissed his complaint to myself as something other than amp related in his particular setup, but now I'm wondering if it might well be an intermittant problem with some units.  Did your seller say why he was selling his amp, if other than deadie?  He had stated that he returned his.


----------



## Sylafari

jacal01 said:


> Another poster, deadie, had complained about hearing graininess with his CMA800R unit.  I sort of dismissed his complaint to myself as something other than amp related in his particular setup, but now I'm wondering if it might well be an intermittant problem with some units.  Did your seller say why he was selling his amp, if other than deadie?  He had stated that he returned his.


 
  
 My seller wasn't deadie, my seller compared the amp to another a while ago and just liked the cheaper amp better and he had it up for sale a while ago but closed the listing. I PM'ed and was able to purchase the amp from him. I also plugged in the AK240 to use as a source and my iPhone, and for those two I did not experience any grain in the sound, just with the WA7 DAC output.


----------



## EraserXIV

sylafari said:


> My seller wasn't deadie, my seller compared the amp to another a while ago and just liked the cheaper amp better and he had it up for sale a while ago but closed the listing. I PM'ed and was able to purchase the amp from him. I also plugged in the AK240 to use as a source and my iPhone, and for those two I did not experience any grain in the sound, just with the WA7 DAC output.


 
  
 In my experience, circuits with tubes in them are commonly more prone to noise and interference. I don't have any science to back it up, but just what I've anecdotally experienced. Someone with more expertise, feel free to chime in.


----------



## jacal01

sylafari said:


> My seller wasn't deadie, my seller compared the amp to another a while ago and just liked the cheaper amp better and he had it up for sale a while ago but closed the listing. I PM'ed and was able to purchase the amp from him. I also plugged in the AK240 to use as a source and my iPhone, and for those two I did not experience any grain in the sound, just with the WA7 DAC output.


 
  
 I would follow up with him to determine exactly why the cheaper amp "sounded better", and if graininess was indeed the issue, if he tried to resolve it with his seller and/or Questyle.
  
 In any case, keep us posted as to whether the discrete DAC (Yulong DA8) fixes the problem.  If not, you need to apprise Questyle directly of this and work with them to resolve it, especially if it's indicative of a larger QA issue with some of their 800R units that they need to address.


----------



## project86

Could very well be the "cheaper amp" was smoother, less resolving, and therefore able to make his DAC sound better. The CMA800R is brutally revealing and a deficiency elsewhere in the chain will definitely be magnified. Makes sense to me. Not all amps are a good fit for every system, and that's a key reason why.


----------



## jacal01

My original thought as well, but both posters have now used the same word "graininess", which sounds like digital chopping, if they're using the word correctly.  I know that it gets thrown around a lot (vs. "chalky", for instance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  But you and I both know that the CMA-800, and by extension the 800R, should sound smooth and analog like as well as revealing, all other things being optimum.
  
 The other poster, deadie, said that the graininess went away when he merely swapped out amps (vs. Auralic Taurus) in his system.  As for his DAC, he was using a Chord Hugo, which I understand to have a very fluid output because of its outboard FPGA tap filtering.
  
 I know that listening is mostly subjective, and that frequently amps get blamed for deficiencies in upstream system components or cabling, without the proper problem isolation, but 2 data points, if truly common, might just indicate a recurrent QA problem that Alden should be made aware of with his 800R units.
  
 I hope that Sylafari will do a rigorous follow up and report.
  
 EDIT:  Actually, now that I think on it, digital graininess and analog amplification should be mutually exclusive.  If not actually an upstream DAC issue, to which one would normally apply the term "graininess", maybe brutally revealing clarity is outside of some listeners' usual comfort zone.  Minimum distortion may very well not be for everyone, as witness the SET amp phenomenon.
  
 And deadie is a basshead.


----------



## Sylafari

jacal01 said:


> My original thought as well, but both posters have now used the same word "graininess", which sounds like digital chopping, if they're using the word correctly.  I know that it gets thrown around a lot (vs. "chalky", for instance
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well the DA8 is arriving tomorrow to my doorstep (incredible shipping speed). We shall see.


----------



## project86

Good point jacal01. I hadn't realized it was a Hugo involved - definitely not grainy on that end.
  
 However, I've had something resembling mild clipping when cranking the output volume on Hugo and then pairing with certain amps. With Hugo, you don't really know the output voltage for each "color level" of the volume knob (that sounds odd but makes sense if you are familiar with Hugo). So it's not hard to overdo it depending on the amp and what sort of voltage it expects to see. 
  
 Just a theory. It very well could be a QA issue, or any number of other things. Not sure how Alden and Co. could really check on it based on such little information though....


----------



## Sylafari

You guys are scaring me


----------



## jacal01

One step at a time.  The Questyle CMA-800R has received very good reception, as evidenced by this thread, so it's mostly a matter of separating the objective if any from the subjective for you. Since project86 has a favorable impression of the Yulong DA8 DAC, that's a good first step for you.  May well just be all rampant speculation before the fact.
  
 Sorry if I raised some potential issue prematurely in the absence of any real data.  Chicken Little is _not _my alter ego...


----------



## Sylafari

Well, look what just came in


----------



## EraserXIV

Nice, definitely a setup I'm considering but it is unfortunate they don't have a fully balanced option without purchasing 2 of them. The Taurus MKII and upcoming Ragnarok are on my short list as well.


----------



## Sanlitun

project86 said:


> Could very well be the "cheaper amp" was smoother, less resolving, and therefore able to make his DAC sound better. The CMA800R is brutally revealing and a deficiency elsewhere in the chain will definitely be magnified. Makes sense to me. Not all amps are a good fit for every system, and that's a key reason why.


 
  
  
 In my case buying the CMA800R led to a new DAC, S/PDIF converter and cabling. This amp is good enough that it can be paired with the very best of sources and any less may be a disappointment.


----------



## Sylafari

eraserxiv said:


> Nice, definitely a setup I'm considering but it is unfortunate they don't have a fully balanced option without purchasing 2 of them. The Taurus MKII and upcoming Ragnarok are on my short list as well.


 
  
 I don't have the budget to get a fully balanced option either (maybe in the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). The Taurus MKII was on my list as well but I mainly use my HD800 (in fact, I don't use the LCD-2's at all anymore, the leather + 95 degree days = unbearable), and it seemed like the CMA 800R was designed more with the HD800 in mind and also I would have to buy a balanced cable as well (they all seem pretty expensive). Although I like Schiit products, I feel like for 1000+, the same steel construction just seems like a considerable hit in build quality (more fit and finish rather than build quality) compared to other products in the price range, that and the gargantuan size of the Ragnarok.


----------



## Sylafari

Just noticed this but both the CMA 800R and the DA8 don't match the manufacturer's size specifications. The CMA 800R is supposedly 330*300*55 mm but in actuality its 330*198*55 mm which is pretty much nearly 102 mm shorter in terms of depth of the amplifier (even if you included knob length and input output jack sizes it is still nowhere near its listed length). The Yulong DA8 is said to be 250*180*60 mm but is actually 250*205*60 mm where its actually 25 mm longer. The reason I noticed this was cause when I was searching for a DAC, it was imperative that it would stack on top and fit comfortably on the CMA 800R and the DA8's listed length was still shorter than the true length of the CMA 800R. In actuality, its actually slightly longer but thankfully the feet fit on top of the CMA 800R perfectly. What's weird is both companies got how long the length of the unit was incorrectly. Just a weird thing I noticed hehe.


----------



## EraserXIV

Interesting, how does it sound? Did it fix the issue you were having with the WA7?


----------



## Sylafari

eraserxiv said:


> Interesting, how does it sound? Did it fix the issue you were having with the WA7?


 
  
 There is no graininess when the Sabre DA8 is used as a DAC where as there is a slight hint of graininess on some songs when using the WA7 as a DAC for the CMA 800R. I never realized how much difference a better DAC could be (always thought DACs give the lowest amount of improvement in overall sound quality as it seems like even cheap DAC chips are very good these days). Although to some people the differences I hear maybe little, to me the clearness of the sound is very impressive on the DA8 compared to the WA7 when played through the CMA 800R. The instrument separation seems much more pronounced as it is much easier to point out certain instruments on the DA8 than the WA7. Also the increase in soundstage and the increase in clarity leaves me very impressed. What i'm impressed by the most by the CMA 800R compared to other amps I've heard is how resolving it is that I can actually tell DACs apart easily, I can plug in my iPhone 5S, WA7, and DA8 and easily tell them apart compared to before where honestly telling apart the iPhone 5S from the WA7's internal DAC took a lot more effort. I will continue to test though as I've have only heard the DA8 with the CMA 800R for about 5 hours and their is a long way to go.


----------



## BeyerMonster

sylafari said:


> I never realized how much difference a better DAC could be (always thought DACs give the lowest amount of improvement in overall sound quality as it seems like even cheap DAC chips are very good these days).


 
 It took me a long time to realize that the analog electronics and the implementation for a DAC make a huge difference. It's easy to try and go off of labratory specs, but once the chip goes in a circuit board, all bets are off.


----------



## project86

I never noticed that about the measurements being off on those particular models. But I have seen it before with other gear. No idea why that's such a common problem. 
  
 Unrelated, but I just stumbled across this video of the Questyle room at T.H.E. Show from earlier this year.
  

  
 That's Alden from Questyle showing off their hi-res wireless streaming system. Not really headphone related, and unfortunately they didn't get to cover the other Questyle stuff. But this wireless system is actually quite intriguing - T2 Transmitter connects to source (in this case via USB but it also takes coax, Toslink, and even RCA analog inputs), then sends 5GHz signal to the receiver. There are a few options - the R2 which unpacks the data, performs D/A conversion, and sends the signal out via analog connections to the amp of your choice (or perhaps active speakers if you already own a set). Then there's the R100 receiver which also unpacks and converts the signal before passing it to an onboard 50w x 2 ICEpower module. Lastly, the R200 monoblocks do the same process but each side does 200w via beefier ICEpower solutions. Best of all, they can be used for bi-amping or as seen in the video _tri_amping. Pretty impressive stuff. 
  
 Also, I notice this info from the recent High End Munich show. Looks like a few more new products as well - CAS192 Pro high end DAC with analog preamp, and then an integrated amp and also monoblock amp both sporting current mode amp technology. Questyle is really going full speed with the new gear.


----------



## Sylafari

Now we just need that Questyle US Distributor to open up shop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That CAS192 Pro DAC, maybe in the future....  although the Auralic Vega is so tempting. 
  
 But for now, I think i'll just go and enjoy my Questyle CMA 800R.


----------



## NicoD6

Apparently, They officially launched their new products. I can't wait to know the availability and prices!
  
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/chanpin/20140529/299.html


----------



## project86

I believe that is something that is being worked on right now - the new distributor for North America was at T.H.E. Show but should now be home trying get things set up.


----------



## jacal01

I just got an email from Alden.  Is it yet too early to announce the new distributer?


----------



## project86

I don't see why not - go for it if you've got the info.


----------



## jacal01

Just his name, same as you.  I googled him, but no audio company comes up in connection.  Prolly still premature, at least for ordering, which is everybody's hot button here.


----------



## project86

He used to be VP of Halcro, so he definitely knows the high end scene. I believe he's been around for a long time, not sure what he's been doing lately though. I'll try to find out more and post here if I do.


----------



## MoatsArt

OK. Am about to bite the bullet on the CMA800R and will be building my next system around it.

Please list in order of preference your top three headphone pairings with this amp.


----------



## project86

HD800, HD800, and HD800 - in that order.

Seriously though, aside from HD800 I really enjoy it with LCD-2 and Thunderpants. And others too, but those are probably my top 3.


----------



## MoatsArt

I've only spent half an hour with the HD800s running put of a meier Audio Corda Concerto I owned at the time. It seemed a little anaemic compared to the LCD2s that were my primary phones at the stage. Have moved on to T1s.

Perhaps it's time to give the HD800s a second chance through a better matching amp and with a different reference point.


----------



## cavis

HD800 is pure magic ultimately amped !
I use it with 2 Questyle CMA800R as monoblocs, with preamp and balanced cable from Craig Sanborn, at Whiplash Audio.
Amazing !


----------



## NicoD6

Just found this from T.H.E. Show Newport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyqmEugreI
  
 The CMA800i is going to be 2000$. It's even better than i expected!


----------



## project86

nicod6 said:


> Just found this from T.H.E. Show Newport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyqmEugreI
> 
> The CMA800i is going to be 2000$. It's even better than i expected!


 
  
 Yep, I was expecting it to be maybe $2500 or so. If it gives us 80% of the performance from CMA800R plus 80% of the CAS192D, that's a damn good deal.


----------



## Sylafari

The price we pay for that extra 20% (Law of Diminishing Returns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## gsr108

Can anyone compare the CMA800R in SE or dual monoblock balanced operation to the DNA stratus?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Or DNA Sonnet 2

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## twsmith

Has anyone had the opportunity to do a critical "side by side" comparison of the Headamp GS-X MkII vs Questyle CMA800R (either SE or dual mono) using the HD800 phones?    I presently have one CMA800R and like it a lot with the HD800, but I'm leaning toward going balanced and at the same time acquiring a truly "end-game" amp for my system.    As good as the CMA800R is, I keep thinking about pulling the trigger for a GS-X MKII (despite the long wait).    From the scattered comments I've seen on various Head-Fi forums, I have the impression that the GS-X MKII is considered by many to be at the very top of the best SS amps for the HD800s.    At this point I'm not inclined toward buying another CMA800R to use for dual mono operation unless this combination is _significantly_ better than a GS-X.


----------



## project86

twsmith said:


> Has anyone had the opportunity to do a critical "side by side" comparison of the Headamp GS-X MkII vs Questyle CMA800R (either SE or dual mono) using the HD800 phones?    I presently have one CMA800R and like it a lot with the HD800, but I'm leaning toward going balanced and at the same time acquiring a truly "end-game" amp for my system.    As good as the CMA800R is, I keep thinking about pulling the trigger for a GS-X MKII (despite the long wait).    From the scattered comments I've seen on various Head-Fi forums, I have the impression that the GS-X MKII is considered by many to be at the very top of the best SS amps for the HD800s.    At this point I'm not inclined toward buying another CMA800R to use for dual mono operation unless this combination is _significantly_ better than a GS-X.


 
  
 I haven't heard a GS-X in a while, and it was the original rather than the MkII. So I can't help there. I will say the main benefit of adding another CMA800R to the mix is with other headphones, more so than with HD800.
  
My full review is coming in the next week or so but to summarize - dual CMA800R really brings the LCD-3 to another level, and also sounds exceptional with HE-6 and HE-500. It makes a difference with HD800 but the improvement is nowhere near as drastic. I think just one of them already sounds so good with HD800 that maybe there just isn't as much room to improve.


----------



## Armaegis

project86 said:


> My full review is coming in the next week or so but to summarize - dual CMA800R really brings the LCD-3 to another level, and also sounds exceptional with HE-6 and HE-500. It makes a difference with HD800 but the improvement is nowhere near as drastic. I think just one of them already sounds so good with HD800 that maybe there just isn't as much room to improve.


 
  
 Very very curious to read this. I just posted up my review of the Nuforce HA-200 monos earlier today.


----------



## BleaK

Today I made the purchase, finally! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now it's just the waiting part....


----------



## project86

In case you haven't seen it, my review of the Questyle CAS192D is up. I know some people were waiting for that, so HERE it is.


----------



## BleaK

Got it in today! First impressions so far is that is a very very nice amp and a great match for HD800, no harhsness whatsoever. Got to spend more time with it before I say anything more, but I really like it so far!


----------



## Armaegis

Any impressions out there on using these as monoblocks yet?


----------



## project86

armaegis said:


> Any impressions out there on using these as monoblocks yet?


 
  
  
 Mine is all written up, just need to snap a few more pics and I'll have it posted. That could be tomorrow or next week depending on how much I procrastinate....


----------



## Sylafari

project86 said:


> Mine is all written up, just need to snap a few more pics and I'll have it posted. That could be tomorrow or next week depending on how much I procrastinate....


 
  
 Save me $1.5k and tell me its terrible!


----------



## Armaegis

project86 said:


> Mine is all written up, just need to snap a few more pics and I'll have it posted. That could be tomorrow or next week depending on how much I procrastinate....


 
  
 Looking forward to it! Tell me it's 5x better than the Nuforce monos


----------



## project86

sylafari said:


> Save me $1.5k and tell me its terrible!


 
  
  
 It's terrible! No seriously, you'll see.... it sounds better across the board but some headphones benefit more than others.
  
  


armaegis said:


> Looking forward to it! Tell me it's 5x better than the Nuforce monos


 
  
  
 I have the NuForce monos in and I do like what I hear. Questyle is better for sure, but of course not 5x better. It never really scales that way does it?


----------



## Armaegis

A linear scale would be awesome. We're gonna set 100% fidelity at $100 just to keep it simple alright?


----------



## Sonido

@project86 Do you know if the input impedance of 47K ohms changes when going dual mono? I wonder how well the dual mono setup would work with a tube preamp like the Bottlehead BeePre, seeing how you pretty much need a preamp when going dual mono. Right now I'm using the Bottlehead Smash preamp with my single CMA800R and I find it improves the sound in refinement, imaging, and spacing. Notably less compressed or congested sounding.


----------



## Armaegis

At most it would be reduced by a factor of two. Probably not enough to be concerned about.


----------



## BleaK

Hmm. After listening in a longer period and testing some more tracks I hear something graininess-ish things in the treble region. It sounds harsh and not real life like. Also I switched back just to test the Vali and it didn't have the digitus-like sound. It also seemed that the Vali had more bass slam, and from what I've read here that should not be the case with the CMA800R.
  
 Is it that my gear (the x-sabre with laptop) are the problem? Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## jacal01

The Questyle amp is going to be very revealing of any upstream component shortcomings.  Graininess and treble glare are generally DAC issues.  The Vali appears to be less resolving, and hence more forgiving, and most likely a bit colored as well.
  
 Sounds like a DAC might be your next order of business.  Also pay attention to your laptop USB feed into your DAC.  It might be worthwhile for you to consider a front-end USB to SPDIF converter (DDC).


----------



## project86

bleak said:


> Hmm. After listening in a longer period and testing some more tracks I hear something graininess-ish things in the treble region. It sounds harsh and not real life like. Also I switched back just to test the Vali and it didn't have the digitus-like sound. It also seemed that the Vali had more bass slam, and from what I've read here that should not be the case with the CMA800R.
> 
> Is it that my gear (the x-sabre with laptop) are the problem? Has anyone else experienced this?


 
  
  
 Weird. My experience with Questyle is the exact opposite - the current mode architecture leads to very grain-free details. Are you using XLR or RCA connections between the DAC and amp? X-Sabre has rather high output voltage with XLR and some amps don't appreciate that..... maybe that's the cause?


----------



## BleaK

I use RCA connections. For the "getting a new DAC", John did test it with the X-sabre and said is was a great combo with no harshness, not what I am experiencing right now.
  
 It also feels like it's getting worse, like the treble getting louder and bass disappearing for each day. It makes the HD800 very harsh to listen to. I have contacted my seller about this, is it possible that I have a faulty unit?
  
 I will try switch some gear around for more testing.


----------



## Armaegis

Component changes usually bring about very very small sonic differences. A broad change to the frequency response like that is usually an indicator that something is wrong...
  
 On a completely different line, have you tried cleaning your ears? I had a similar problem recently where I thought everything was sounding harsh, and cleaning out my ears actually alleviated that.


----------



## BleaK

armaegis said:


> Component changes usually bring about very very small sonic differences. A broad change to the frequency response like that is usually an indicator that something is wrong...
> 
> On a completely different line, have you tried cleaning your ears? I had a similar problem recently where I thought everything was sounding harsh, and cleaning out my ears actually alleviated that.


 
 Hehe yeah I do it regulary  I wonder if it can be something to do with me being in europe, regarding power issues. I really don't know, I guess I am grasping for straws here. I hope it will work out somehow, because I really wanted this amp to be good and would be the last purchase in a while..
  
 Edit: I'll try to burn it in some more. I don't think that should have any impact on the sound, but it doesn't hurt to try some more hours on it.


----------



## Sanlitun

bleak said:


> Hmm. After listening in a longer period and testing some more tracks I hear something graininess-ish things in the treble region. It sounds harsh and not real life like. Also I switched back just to test the Vali and it didn't have the digitus-like sound. It also seemed that the Vali had more bass slam, and from what I've read here that should not be the case with the CMA800R.
> 
> Is it that my gear (the x-sabre with laptop) are the problem? Has anyone else experienced this?


 
  
  
 The CMA800R is extremely revealing and after using it for a while I dropped the X-Sabre because I found the treble irritating. I would describe it as an incoherence or lack of resolution in the high treble, as if the DAC just couldn't keep it under control. This seems to be a characteristic of the ESS 9018 and is part of the Sabre sound. It never really bothered me until I used it with the CMA800R.
  
 After this I went on a hunt for a better DAC to match with the CMA800R and tried out nearly everything except for the ridiculously expensive units. I ended up with the NAD M51 and I feel I am at a point where I have a great sound and no further urges to upgrade.


----------



## BleaK

Update: I have tested with every equipment I own, and sometimes the Questyle sounds good again (like the first day).
  
 What I did:
  
 -Switched to different USB outputs
 -Tested two DAC
 -Swapped out some cables (I am a non believer, but I have gotten som nice in trades etc.)
 -Switch power outakes
  
 What had most effect:
 -Power outtake. Where I live there is a 220v while the questyle is 230v, I don't think this should matter, but perhaps is does.
 -Switched USB ports. This was strange but it seems that my laptop has better output from some of the ports. This had actually a fine impact making the treble issues not so glaring anymore.
 -I HATE to admit this, but I thought I could hear some differences in the cables as well. Got some silver ones and they sounded worse in this setup (back to my speaker rig with'em).
  
 I very confused, but it seems I am getting somewhere and that the Questyle is somewhat a lesser problem than I initially thought.
  
 Solution is maybe looking into better USB ports, maybe take a look at some with external power.


----------



## project86

Interesting. I'd say make sure the DAC and the amp are both burned in for a while - not that I necessarily believe in such things, but other people claim big differences so it couldn't hurt. Also, burn-in allows for some mental break in to occur, which could be good in this case. 
  
 Do you know if your HD800 is newer or older? I could swear the old set I had (with a mere 4-digital serial number) was brighter, harsher, and much more thin than the newer examples I've heard in the 20,000+ serial range. Not sure if that's universally true or what.


----------



## Priidik

bleak said:


> I very confused, but it seems I am getting somewhere and that the Questyle is somewhat a lesser problem than I initially thought.
> 
> Solution is maybe looking into better USB ports, maybe take a look at some with external power.


 
 I have found that the computer side matters with my dac (DA8).
 My brother's desktop PC sounds consistently better, otherwise identical hardware to mine, but without dedicated GPU. 
 Also make sure the USB port You use for dac is not in the same hub together with something like a mouse. 
 Fidelizer (application) could also help.


----------



## BleaK

project86 said:


> Interesting. I'd say make sure the DAC and the amp are both burned in for a while - not that I necessarily believe in such things, but other people claim big differences so it couldn't hurt. Also, burn-in allows for some mental break in to occur, which could be good in this case.
> 
> Do you know if your HD800 is newer or older? I could swear the old set I had (with a mere 4-digital serial number) was brighter, harsher, and much more thin than the newer examples I've heard in the 20,000+ serial range. Not sure if that's universally true or what.


 
 It is an older model, but some pirates debunked the myth that some older are brighter, also this is the first time with HD800 that I feel it is too bright.
  
 I'll keep it one more week to see if it's only mental burn in needed or something.


----------



## BleaK

Btw, I appreciate you guys trying to help me! Thank you!


----------



## Priidik

project86 said:


> Do you know if your HD800 is newer or older? I could swear the old set I had (with a mere 4-digital serial number) was brighter, harsher, and much more thin than the newer examples I've heard in the 20,000+ serial range. Not sure if that's universally true or what.


 
 I have tried three different HD800s. Serial nr-s in 5k, 16k and 20k and to me 16k and 20k were nearly identical, checked with a sinewave generator, while the 5k was a bit warmer.
 This was with Yulong D100 with its own amp. Older models had different pads, maybe this contributes to the differences in sound too.


----------



## Armaegis

Differing usb ports can definitely make a difference. Not all the ports are necessarily controlled under a single bus, there might be multiple. Other devices on the bus can also cause interference. The internal configuration can matter as well, plus assigning authority, resources, power management, etc. Physical location could make a difference as well, depending where the circuit traces are routed and where your various power/data lines are doing or cross with others.


----------



## Sonido

Anyone have a chance to hear the Oppo HA-1 amp/DAC combo? It's only $1200. I'm curious how it stacks against the CMA800R with CAS192 or CMA800i.


----------



## Armaegis

I'd also like to know how the HA-1 stacks up against the DA8. And there's that new one coming out from Pioneer too with similar feature set.


----------



## BleaK

Last update on my issues with the Questyle:
  
 I've narrowed the problem it down through testing and pure stubbornness. One side of my apartment does have some sorts of power problem that affects the laptop and it in turn affects the USB out.
  
 After I tried another room and loaned a external USB with dedicated power from a friend I suddenly have no issues at all. In fact now the amp sounds better then it ever did and I am enjoying the sound immensely. This is the best I've heard my HD800 and it just keeps getting better as I try new music. You know that smile you had when you first time listened to your favorite tracks on a decent stereo/headphone? I am back to that feeling now. The music keeps flowing and I keep smiling. I am hearing new details, bass with slam, beautiful mids and extended but smooth highs. The soundstage is massive and I can pinpoint where every sound comes from. Just perfect.
  
  
 Conclusion: It was not the DACs fault, it was not my ears, it was that the Questyle was _too damn revealing!_
  
  
 I want to give a warning to others who are considering this amp. Make sure you have everything in order before deciding on the CMA800R. This will _not _smooth over the flaws with your headphone, your DAC or other parts of your setup. No it will instead reveal them to you!
 However, when it all fits together, and you worked out all the quirks you will be rewarded with a truly endgame sound with an excellent synergy with the HD800!


----------



## falcogol

sonido said:


> Anyone have a chance to hear the Oppo HA-1 amp/DAC combo? It's only $1200. I'm curious how it stacks against the CMA800R with CAS192 or CMA800i.
> 
> 
> I had a chance to audition it at a show both with oppo s own new electromagnetic headphones as well as my own LCD2.
> ...


----------



## jacal01

bleak said:


> Conclusion: It was not the DACs fault, it was not my ears, it was that the Questyle was _too damn revealing!_


 
  
 First time I heard of this as a bad thing.  I thought high fidelity unveiled clarity was one of the audiophilia goals.
  
 That's like saying "stick with mp3 music downloads because 24/192 upsampled files are too damned revealing..."


----------



## BleaK

jacal01 said:


> First time I heard of this as a bad thing.  I thought high fidelity unveiled clarity was one of the audiophilia goals.
> 
> That's like saying "stick with mp3 music downloads because 24/192 upsampled files are too damned revealing..."


 

 I never said it was a bad thing, if you read the other parts you would have seen that


----------



## jacal01

Yeah, I know.  I recently had my sarcasm meter tweaked, as a matter of fact.    I just couldn't resist, and some posters around here will take everything quite literally.
  
 And actually, my mp3 vs. upsampled files is a bad analogy.  There's some debate as to whether upsampled files carry any useful additional information over the original Redbook 16/44.1.  The quality argument is that it spreads jitter over a wider frequency spectrum with data interpolation, and that's only in transmission.  Altho mp3 lossy compression is a whole 'nother thing...


----------



## Sanlitun

Anyone else feel that there is a difference between the A and B outputs? I'm sure everyone has tried them both out.


----------



## project86

I finally got my act together and posted the CMA800R review, which covers a lone unit as well as monoblock setup. LINK to that one. 
  
 Turns out I messed up the first time around. I placed my original review of the CMA800 in the CMA800R category.... so when I went to do this new write-up, it wouldn't let me post (because a review already existed). So I had to move the original content to a NEW location, and then place the new review over the old one. Complex, I know.... gotta pay more attention from now on.
  
 Anyway, I hope this new write up covers all the necessary bases. If not, let me know.


----------



## Armaegis

Very nice!
  
 I find it interesting that with my Nuforce monos, I found the improvement more significant with the HD800 and less so with the HE-6, which is opposite to your impressions with the Questyles.


----------



## project86

Yeah, interesting. Now that I've submitted my HA-200 write up, I need to find yours and give it a read. Sometimes we see things the same way, sometimes a bit different.


----------



## Armaegis

Here's my writeup on the HA-200: http://www.head-fi.org/t/724153/review-nuforce-ha-200-affordable-class-a-monoblocks
 Is yours posted yet?
  
 I keep thinking I need to upgrade my dac, because I can feel it's a bottleneck now. Except I just know that as soon as I do that, I'm going to start looking at upgrading the amps... and then it'll be back to the dac, or the next flagship headphone will come out, etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (though I am very tempted by the Yulong DA8 that I've paired with it on a couple occasions now, and also kinda curious about the Centrance M8 even though I've never heard it but have enjoyed their other gear in the past)


----------



## EraserXIV

The HA-200's low cost of entry into the dual mono block scene is quite interesting.


----------



## project86

armaegis said:


> Here's my writeup on the HA-200: http://www.head-fi.org/t/724153/review-nuforce-ha-200-affordable-class-a-monoblocks
> Is yours posted yet?
> 
> I keep thinking I need to upgrade my dac, because I can feel it's a bottleneck now. Except I just know that as soon as I do that, I'm going to start looking at upgrading the amps... and then it'll be back to the dac, or the next flagship headphone will come out, etc
> ...


 
  
  
 Without derailing this Questyle thread too much - I read your review of the HA-200 (nice work by the way) and mostly agree both in terms of sound and functionality. I hear a bigger improvement with planars though, as compared to HD800 and other dynamics. Which is pretty much the same thing I experience with the Questyle monoblocks. 
  
 Tyll will be posting mine at InnerFidelity some time this week. Maybe Thursday. 
  


eraserxiv said:


> The HA-200's low cost of entry into the dual mono block scene is quite interesting.


 
  
 Agreed. So far, 2 out of the 3 headphone monolock designs (that I'm aware of) show a worthwhile improvement when used in dual mono mode. I suspect this is something we'll see more of in the future, kinda like how a bunch of 2-ch speaker amps of better quality allow for bridging to monoblock mode.


----------



## lukeap69

Eagerly awaiting for your review. At 299USD each, even a pair would still be within reach...


----------



## Velomane

project86,
  
 Do you feel the Questyle mono setup is significantly better than the HA-200 with regards to the HE-6's? And by significantly, I mean four times better.


----------



## jacal01

armaegis said:


> Here's my writeup on the HA-200: http://www.head-fi.org/t/724153/review-nuforce-ha-200-affordable-class-a-monoblocks
> Is yours posted yet?
> 
> I keep thinking I need to upgrade my dac, because I can feel it's a bottleneck now. Except I just know that as soon as I do that, I'm going to start looking at upgrading the amps... and then it'll be back to the dac, or the next flagship headphone will come out, etc
> ...


 
  
 You might consider waiting for the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, whenever it's released.  External interpolation filtering (18K+ taps) via DSP programmed algorithm and discrete multibit (R2R) ladder conversion, I have fairly high expectations of it, relative to its price point.
  
 The Centrance M8 is a well sounding DAC/amp, but its basic claim to fame is the substantial power available for a portable rig to drive most if not all dynamic and planar headphones.


----------



## EraserXIV

> Quote:
> 
> 
> armaegis said:
> ...


 

  
 The DA8 is really good, it's a shame people get put off by its Chinese pedigree. It uses a Sabre chip, but it seems to have been voiced towards the warmer side of neutral to give it a more natural tone while still maintaining the microdetails and air that the Sabre is known for. IME, it has been able to avoid the glare that a lot of other sabre implementations seem to have. You also get DSD support if that's your thing. Though, the Yggdrasil has still piqued my interest and I will keep my eye on how that shakes out.


----------



## Armaegis

The Yggy has caught my interest, even though I haven't been too enthused with Schiit gear in the past (I don't actively dislike them; they just didn't suit my tastes). I'm also intrigued by the upcoming Bottlehead DAC and the DDDAC 1794. For some reason those three and their particular implementations has piqued my curiosity.
  
 I do think I need a dac with higher output potential, but at the same time I like to have a small form factor (which is one major appeal of my Echo2, which is tiny yet still has 4 channel output as well as 2 channel input).
  
 Of course, if I get something higher up then I'm going to be tempted to get some Questyle monos...


----------



## jacal01

The Yggdrasil will be a radical departure from their previous DAC offerings, no doubt all chip implementations, but I don't think it'll be small.
  
 You want a small form great sounding DAC, you might might try a Chord product (e.g. Qute Ex, Hugo), but they ain't cheap (relatively).


----------



## Armaegis

You mean there's nothing out there that's small, good, *and* cheap? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The nerd in me wants to make a chart to calculate the size/weight/cost ratios of various dacs and amps. Anyone know how much the Questyle weighs?


----------



## jacal01

It's all relative, as you know.  At one level pretty much all DACs are various chip implementations + I/O selection & protocol conversion.  And everyone has their faves, depending on their budget.
  
 Dunno off the top of my head, but it's light (stackable).  <4 kg?


----------



## EraserXIV

That chart can get quite complicated once you start factoring monoblock vs no-monoblock and bring other amps into the comparison that have truly balanced topologies. It'll be comparing apples to oranges at that point.

Frankly, the reason I haven't purchased a CMA800R already is because it doesn't have balanced support without the mono-block scheme. While it does get my tech enthusiast side excited (MORE gear!), realistically speaking, I don't want to fiddle around with the L and R channel volumes separately, and also don't want to have my volume control in the digital domain with my DA8. My practical side is telling me to stay away because getting 2 of these things means 2x more space, 2x heavier, 2x the heat, 2x the electicity bill, 2x the money, and *most likely not 2x the performance.* Monoblocks are more suited for 2-channel setups IMO. I hope Questyle's next offering does not go down this path, or at least puts speaker taps on them to make it a more practical product.


----------



## Armaegis

Well yeah, but maybe I just like making spreadsheets... And then it gives me yet another worthless spec and metric upon which to base my make-believe purchases. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although weight isn't that bad of a metric. Hefty power supplies and transformers are important to any design, and those are rarely cheap or lightweight.
  
 But I agree with the sentiment about twice as mush space/etc. As much as I love the tech toys, I also like to have desk space. The HA-200 are pushing it for me in terms of size already. It's ok on the dining room table, but the bedroom desk not so much. I'm really _really_ curious about the Questyles, but that's moving up another notch on the size/weight scale. I'm hoping Project86's review of the Nuforce over at innerfidelity will share some more comparisons.
  
 My Echo2 is tiny. It's barely the size of a paperback book. If only I could find an amp somewhere in that size range (which would probably push towards class D), but heck there are power bricks out there that are bigger than that. .


----------



## project86

If the HA-200 is pushing it in size, you definitely don't want the Questyle. Unless we're talking about their Q192 integrated DAC/amp unit which is really compact and does a great job for sensitive headphones and IEMs. Not enough juice to do planars right though.
  
 Dual HA-200 at $700 compared to a single CMA800R at $1500 is a good question. I'd say the NuForce combo is more visceral and punchy sounding, while the CMA800R is faster, more nimble, more resolving and clear. As always, the improvement is not linear relative to price, but I'd probably still take the CMA800R over the dual HA-200 combo. Having said that, the HA-200 combo is really very good for the price class, and a single HA-200 might be my new favorite amp in the sub-$500 range. I'd have to compare it directly to the Matrix M-Stage mkII though.


----------



## Armaegis

Does the CMA800R run hotter than the HA-200?


----------



## project86

armaegis said:


> Does the CMA800R run hotter than the HA-200?


 
  
 Nope, nice and cool. There's just a slight warmth during extended use but nowhere near as hot as the NuForce. The CMA800R does have significantly more interior volume, as well as a much thicker chassis. So it probably soaks up heat a lot better.


----------



## Armaegis

In your review you gave the nod to the Taurus vs the CMA800R in single ended mode, but didn't really elaborate once you went to monos with the Questyles. Do you feel it closes the gap or surpasses?


----------



## Byrnie

deadie said:


> I've been reading up on the CMA800R to pair with my LCD-X and soon to arrive Chord Hugo.
> 
> I recently demo'd the GSX-MkII and Senn HDVA600 at the SoCal meet, and the Auralic Taurus MkII at Stereo Unlimited here in San Diego.
> 
> ...


 
 Do what I did and just loan the Taurus from The Cable Co for roughly $85 (it comes burned-in) and they give it to you for a week (http://www.thecableco.com/Product/category.aspx?cid=401).  Also if you like it you can use that money (the $85) toward the amp and buy it from them.  I have the Taurus sitting at home right now as I'm auditioning it.


----------



## Sanlitun

I was curious if any CMA800R owners has heard the new Bakoon HPA-01 and might comment? Particularly using the current output with planars such as LCD-X? I've been reading through the HPA-21 thread but there is precious little about the HPA-01. I also read the 6moons review, but I fear that Srajan's reviews are becoming even more unsubstantial.
  
 I did hear the HPA-21 with the HD-800 briefly but it was long ago and all I can recall was that it sounded very good. 
  
 Anyways the same vendor where I bought my CMA800R has a great deal on the HPA-01 and I think I may not be able to resist.


----------



## gsr108

Just wanted to post that I had a VERY good experience with Bruce Ball and questyle in general. I brought a used CMA800R. One of the screws on the top plate wasn't fitting correctly and looked out of place. Amp was working fine. I contacted questyle initially to get a replacement screw and they decided to replace the whole unit for me for free. I should be getting the unit today. Great customer service in my book!


----------



## gsr108

Deleted


----------



## project86

armaegis said:


> In your review you gave the nod to the Taurus vs the CMA800R in single ended mode, but didn't really elaborate once you went to monos with the Questyles. Do you feel it closes the gap or surpasses?


 
  
 Yeah sorry, I'm trying to keep my reviews from being sooooo long winded these days... for your benefit _and _for mine. But that format sometimes omits desired details, so I'm always open to questions like this.
  
 I think the dual mono CMA800R setup is better than Taurus in several instances. HD800 (obviously), but also LCD-3 and LCD-2. Taurus still has the edge with HE-6 and possibly with Alpha Dogs too. The sound signature of the Questyle monoblocks is more airy and quick, while the Taurus has a bit more tonal richness. Different strengths for sure, but neither of them has significant weaknesses to speak of. And that's what makes both options so exceptional. Even though Taurus is better with HE-6, the CMA800R combo is _very_ good. And the monoblocks with with LCD-3 and HD800, but the Taurus is excellent with those as well. So it's not like one blows the other out of the water. 
  
 I suppose I give the ultimate sound quality nod to the monoblock Questyle setup, thought Taurus wins on value (ie pricing) and simplicity of connection.
  
  
  
  


sanlitun said:


> I was curious if any CMA800R owners has heard the new Bakoon HPA-01 and might comment? Particularly using the current output with planars such as LCD-X? I've been reading through the HPA-21 thread but there is precious little about the HPA-01. I also read the 6moons review, but I fear that Srajan's reviews are becoming even more unsubstantial.
> 
> I did hear the HPA-21 with the HD-800 briefly but it was long ago and all I can recall was that it sounded very good.
> 
> Anyways the same vendor where I bought my CMA800R has a great deal on the HPA-01 and I think I may not be able to resist.
 
  
 I liked the SQ of the HPA-21 but the short battery life was a dealbreaker for me. Not sure if later revisions had better performance or at least allowed one to listen from AC power while the battery charged. So I'm curious to hear how much of that SQ the HPA-01 can manage. But no, so far I haven't heard it yet. 
  
 If you pick one up, definitely let us know your thoughts. 
  
  


gsr108 said:


> Just wanted to post that I had a VERY good experience with Bruce Ball and questyle in general. I brought a used CMA800R. One of the screws on the top plate wasn't fitting correctly and looked out of place. Amp was working fine. I contacted questyle initially to get a replacement screw and they decided to replace the whole unit for me for free. I should be getting the unit today. Great customer service in my book!


 
  
 That's great to hear. I've dealt with Questyle a lot but never with Bruce Ball (he's a relatively new add on). I seem to recall him being a top dog at Halcro so he's been around for a while and knows the biz. Glad they went out of their way to help you out. That says good things about their service and even has a theoretical impact on resale value.


----------



## gsr108

gsr108 said:


> Just wanted to post that I had a VERY good experience with Bruce Ball and questyle in general. I brought a used CMA800R. One of the screws on the top plate wasn't fitting correctly and looked out of place. Amp was working fine. I contacted questyle initially to get a replacement screw and they decided to replace the whole unit for me for free. I should be getting the unit today. Great customer service in my book!




Another update.  So I received the amp back.  Instead of sending me a new one they either sent me a refurbished model or replaced the screw on my old amp.  I can tell because the amp that was sent back seems to be an older model (the faceplate is slightly different).  This is after Mr Ball emailed me and offered to exchange my old amp for a new amp due to the faulty screw.  I've emailed him multiple times in the past 4 days without any replies.  Hopefully he will email me back soon but, so far, I feel let down by their customer service.


----------



## BydoEmpire

gsr108 said:


> gsr108 said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to post that I had a VERY good experience with Bruce Ball and questyle in general. I brought a used CMA800R. One of the screws on the top plate wasn't fitting correctly and looked out of place. Amp was working fine. I contacted questyle initially to get a replacement screw and they decided to replace the whole unit for me for free. I should be getting the unit today. Great customer service in my book!
> ...


 
 Is there a problem with the replacement amp? Can you post a pic of the faceplate?


----------



## gsr108

You can tell the one on top is older due to the bevels around the lights.  There was an issue with the amp I'm trying to figure out right now - could be due to my system also.  Basically, when I emailed Bruce Ball about the issue - he asked me where I got the amp.  My reply was that this is the amp he sent back to me - which should have been a new unit.  I've asked if he just replaced the screw or sent me a refurbished unit.  That was on Monday.  Multiple emails since that time have gone unanswered.  My issue is that he misrepresented what he was going to do.  Instead of a new unit I have a possibly refurbished unit that may have some issue with it (still trying to figure that out).


----------



## project86

Those bevels were used on the original CMA800 model but all the CMA800R examples I've seen have the smoother design. I wonder if they repurposed one of the older chassis they had laying around? 
  
 How are the sides of that front panel? Do they have a sort of angle to them?


----------



## Sanlitun

gsr108 said:


> You can tell the one on top is older due to the bevels around the lights.  There was an issue with the amp I'm trying to figure out right now - could be due to my system also.  Basically, when I emailed Bruce Ball about the issue - he asked me where I got the amp.  My reply was that this is the amp he sent back to me - which should have been a new unit.  I've asked if he just replaced the screw or sent me a refurbished unit.  That was on Monday.  Multiple emails since that time have gone unanswered.  My issue is that he misrepresented what he was going to do.  Instead of a new unit I have a possibly refurbished unit that may have some issue with it (still trying to figure that out).


 
  
  
 It looks like it was from a different production run. That would be annoying if you wanted a matched pair.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Oh Man! All for a screw... 

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## gsr108

So Mr. Ball has emailed me back.  He states that the one he sent me was a new amp, and that he did not have any old amps in stock.  Even though he was the one to mention that the amp on top looked like an older style.  He's trying to make this right by fixing my old amp and sending it back, which he states is the smoother style like the amp on bottom.  Unfortunately I don't remember if the old amp was the older beveled style or the newer smooth style amp.  When I first received both amps I did not have a dual 3 pin XLR adapter and did not pay that much attention to the differences between the two.  I think the old amp had the beveled style lights also, but could be wrong.  Regardless there are some discrepancies between what has been stated between us.  If everything turns out okay I won't hold any grudges.  And for my LCD 3f's the dual mono setup is REALLY nice. 
  
 For those interested, the issue with the amp is that its volume control seems different between the two amps.  If I place the bottom amp's volume at 25%, the top amp's volume has to be has to be a little higher - say 28-30% to level match the two.  But if I place both amps volume at 50% - they seem pretty even at that time.  I've tried running both at 100% - but then it seems like the amp on tops volume decreases as the amp gets hotter.  It just makes it hard to level match between the two.  I'm using a NAD M51 as a preamp.  The DAC has also been switched since I got the amp back, so I don't believe it is DAC related (exchanged a silver M51 for a black M51, problem persists on both).  I've also switched XLR connecters since I've noticed the volume issue - without improvement.  If anyone has any suggestions I'd be happy to listen to them.


----------



## project86

Mine are pretty closely matched but I bet if I was able to somehow label them precisely, I'd find a slight difference as well. Same thing with the NuForce HA-200 in monoblock mode. It's basically the nature of a potentiometer to have slight variation from one to the next - even for really nice ones. 
  
 This is why I prefer to use DAC volume control (or a preamp, if that better fits your system).


----------



## gsr108

I was wondering if anyone can answer this question for me - is it safe to just turn both amps up to max volume when using both in dual mono mode?  A NAD M51 will be used to control volume.  Any chance of overheating?


----------



## cavis

No problem, these are monoblocks.
That is the way I (try) to use them, and permanently "on".
But I desperate to find a preamp which respects the amazing transparency of the amps.
I tried with several ones, even a passive, once it introduces noise or sound purity is affected.
Tell me your impressions with the Nad.


----------



## project86

Cranking to full volume on both in monoblock mode seems to be the intent of the design, so it should be fine. That's how I use mine and it's been great. You just need to use a high quality DAC or preamp in the chain that won't detract from the transparency of these amps.


----------



## gsr108

Quick question - do you guys think my volume imbalance issue could be related to burn in?  When I initially got the new amp it was very obvious that the volume level was less on the new amp compared to the older one throughout the volume range.  Now I'm not too sure.  At 25% volume on both amps, I notice the new amp to play slightly less loud - which pretty much resolves by 50% volume on both amps.  The other thing that happened was that I am no longer running the XLR connections through a loop out - the dynahi I had between the NAD and CMA800R's is currently being fixed.


----------



## BydoEmpire

gsr108 said:


> Quick question - do you guys think my volume imbalance issue could be related to burn in?  When I initially got the new amp it was very obvious that the volume level was less on the new amp compared to the older one throughout the volume range.  Now I'm not too sure.  At 25% volume on both amps, I notice the new amp to play slightly less loud - which pretty much resolves by 50% volume on both amps.  The other thing that happened was that I am no longer running the XLR connections through a loop out - the dynahi I had between the NAD and CMA800R's is currently being fixed.


 
 If you have volume control through your DAC or use a preamp I'd do what project does and set both amps to max then control volume with the DAC/preamp and see if you notice an imbalance then.


----------



## gsr108

bydoempire said:


> If you have volume control through your DAC or use a preamp I'd do what project does and set both amps to max then control volume with the DAC/preamp and see if you notice an imbalance then.




That's how I run them. What I was trying to say is that when I first received the other amp. I definitely heard a imbalance between the two throughout the volume range (voices appeared to image more towards the amp that was louder). Now I don't. The only things that have change are the amp has "burned in." And I took out the XLR loopout between the NAD M51 and the CMA800Rs. Could either of those two things been causing the difference I heard?


----------



## gsr108

For anyone interested, and also to clear questyles north america's name.  I think I figured out why I was hearing the channel imbalance at low volumes but not high volumes.  Really stupid really.  The new amp is from a different product run and the volume knobs do not line up completely.  So what I thought was 1/4 way on the knob was actually less than that on the new amp vs the old one.  Which explains why I heard the imbalance at low volumes, but as I turned it up, the imbalance went away.  DUH. 
  
 For those with dual monos, I added a tripp lite UPS the other day and it seems to have made a very positive impact.  Especially noticeable to me when running my modded HE-6's (grill, fuzzor, vegan pads).  First time I listened to them with the UPS added, I immediately noticed that soundstage was very holographic, 3D.  Bass also seemed improved.  I brought the UPS because I thought my system seemed to sound slightly better at night but its made a significant difference.  As always YMMV, etc.


----------



## preproman

A UPS or a Power re conditioner?  How can a UPS improve SQ, it does nothing to the power - or does it?  It's there to protect your gear from power outages.


----------



## gsr108

Its a UPS.  I was searching for reviews on Tripp Lite power isolators when I ran across this thread from 2006: http://www.head-fi.org/t/208105/opinions-on-tripp-lite-products-please/30.  I decided to try a UPS due to the fact I thought my system sounded slightly better at night - when less appliances were used.  Switching between the two (amps connected straight to a separate power strip vs connected directly to the UPS) I feel that the bass hits a little harder and is a little tighter.  Not gigantic differences but it's there.  It may be that the power to my house is unstable, which the battery powered unit helps with.


----------



## project86

I guess it depends on the device in question and what exactly it does. Is it pure sine wave output? Power regeneration? Voltage regulation? Balanced power? There are many schools of thought on the matter.
  
 The other aspect is your own home power, which may be better or worse than someone else on this forum using the exact same audio equipment. In my personal opinion, this is a big factor in explaining why some of us have great results with this or that power conditioner device, while others don't notice a difference at all. 
  
 I've owned quite a few power conditioners from tweaky "audiophile" stuff to more traditional designs. Ended up settling on an APC S15 and couldn't be more pleased. I thought the PS Audio Power Plant models were quite good but they proved very unreliable over the years.


----------



## xaval

I pretty much read this thread from page 1 and it's pretty clear how great value this amp seems to represent for HD800 owners and I see this pair of cans again in the near future. On the other hand, I don't see T1 going away... T1s for all things rock and blues + HD800 for jazz and orchestral classical.
  
 I think there's only 1 post here stating that this amp turned the T1 into midfi whereas previously it was hifi and a following comment in the sense that the CMR800 was revealing T1s true nature.
  
 I'd like to hear further comments about this as I'm looking for synergy with both cans and don't want tubes. Violectric seems to offer a good solution in amping for my requirements but I'd like to have a couple more options to chose from.


----------



## allanallan

Hello guys,

 I have Questyle CAS192D DAC and just like other user eith CMA800 (page 2), I also had issues with both fuses.
 The question is... I don't know the fuse's amperage. It's not written on the DAC, as it should be. It's only written to use 250V fuse, but not the ampere.
 Could someone help me please? What's the fuse you have replaced?

 Thank a lot!


----------



## gsr108

allanallan said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have Questyle CAS192D DAC and just like other user eith CMA800 (page 2), I also had issues with both fuses.
> The question is... I don't know the fuse's amperage. It's not written on the DAC, as it should be. It's only written to use 250V fuse, but not the ampere.
> ...


 

 I was told to use these by questyle - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TN42EO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 
  
 One caveat, my older one used 315ma version of those fuses and never had any issues with blown fuses.  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TN4QUO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## allanallan

Thank you very much, @gsr108! =)
 I was a bit confused and I couldn't find the information.
 So I will get the 300mA.


----------



## twsmith

I've had the CMA800R for just about 6 months, and while I still feel that it is a very good amp SQ-wise for the HD800s, I do have some concerns about its build quality.   Already one mechanical part has "failed" -- the volume control knob.   This became loose and virtually non-functional, and the small screw nut in the side of the knob was virtually useless.   Fortunately I was able to fix it using some double sided adhesive tape (not worth hassle to ship the amp back to China just for this).   The volume knob does not appear to be well-designed from the start, which makes me wonder what else might break in the future.   Hopefully the internal electrical parts will hold up well, but I've never been particularly impressed with the over all "fit and finish" of the casing and external hardware.  
  
 I'm not sure how many of these amps are out there, but would be curious if others have run into this problem or other problems.   I'm very upset that this happened to a rather expensive amp that is still fairly "young" -- in my opinion this does not bode well for Questyle's quality control.


----------



## BleaK

That is worrying indeed. Please report if something else happens. Nothing failing here so far 4 month in, and love the soundquality. So I hope I can keep this amp for much longer 
  
  
 One more thing, any soundstage junkies like me here? I have found my "Soundstage-nirvana" with the x-sabre -> CMA800R -> HD800. It's so wide/deep/high! I can hear sounds coming from all over the place! Some may not like this effect, but I love it


----------



## project86

Interesting, I'm sorry to hear that. I've been putting some serious hours on my Questyle gear and it's all held up rather well. The worst I can say is I put a few scuffs on the top of my CAS192D from stacking a CMA800R on top. Maybe scuff is not the proper word because it isn't an actual scratch in the cover, but more like a slight pressure discoloration or blemish. It may rub out if I try hard enough. Silver always seems to show these things more than black. 
  
 This is not unique to Questyle though.


----------



## Sylafari

twsmith said:


> I've had the CMA800R for just about 6 months, and while I still feel that it is a very good amp SQ-wise for the HD800s, I do have some concerns about its build quality.   Already one mechanical part has "failed" -- the volume control knob.   This became loose and virtually non-functional, and the small screw nut in the side of the knob was virtually useless.   Fortunately I was able to fix it using some double sided adhesive tape (not worth hassle to ship the amp back to China just for this).   The volume knob does not appear to be well-designed from the start, which makes me wonder what else might break in the future.   Hopefully the internal electrical parts will hold up well, but I've never been particularly impressed with the over all "fit and finish" of the casing and external hardware.
> 
> I'm not sure how many of these amps are out there, but would be curious if others have run into this problem or other problems.   I'm very upset that this happened to a rather expensive amp that is still fairly "young" -- in my opinion this does not bode well for Questyle's quality control.


 

 This happened to me too but the small screw nut needs a hextool and you just turn it a few times and its all great again. The rest of the unit to me seems like an impeccably built amplifier.


----------



## jacal01

Allen wrench is your friend.


----------



## vlach

Any comparisons to the Bryston BHA-1?


----------



## project86

vlach said:


> Any comparisons to the Bryston BHA-1?


 
  
  
 I'd call the Questyle faster, more nimble, with more (and cleaner) treble energy. Bryston might be considered more neutral or maybe darker depending on your perspective. Both are great amps.


----------



## BleaK

project86 said:


> I'd call the Questyle faster, more nimble, with more (and cleaner) treble energy. Bryston might be considered more neutral or maybe darker depending on your perspective. Both are great amps.


 

 Any chance you are going to listen to the schiit ragnarok John? Early reports says it bests all the SS amp for the HD800. I'll wait for the hype to die down, but would be fun if you had a look at it and compared it to questyle, auralic and violectric 282.


----------



## lukeap69

Agreed. ATM there are 4 really good amps in (almost) the same price category. Hopefully, somebody would do a shootout: Schist Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus mike, Audio-gd Master 9 & Questyle CMA800. It seems John has heard most of these...


----------



## project86

I'd love to but I'm soooooo backed up on stuff right now. Have gear coming out of my ears, and I hate making a manufacturer or PR person wait too long for my review to post or even for my email declining the review..... Sometimes it takes me over a month to even find time to listen, only to discover I dislike the thing and won't bother with coverage. Then I take a week or longer to find time to mail it back. Then I feel like a jerk.


----------



## lukeap69

No wonder many manufacturers trust you to review their products, you're doing a good job. I still think that it will be a great project to do a shootout of the 4 amps I mentioned. Many threads I have read are sort of asking how is this compared to this and these 4 amps are always being mentioned but I assume not many ppeople will have the chance to hear them. You are probably one of the few...


----------



## 3rdmortal

lukeap69 said:


> Agreed. ATM there are 4 really good amps in (almost) the same price category. Hopefully, somebody would do a shootout: Schist Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus mike, Audio-gd Master 9 & Questyle CMA800. It seems John has heard most of these...


 
  
 For me Bakoon HPA-01 is far superior to Questyle CMA800R. I liked listening to CMA800R+HD800 but when i bought Bakoon i was completely blown away. So there are other amps there that worth of consideration too.


----------



## lukeap69

I've heard good things about the Bakoon. If John can include it in his shootout, I have no objection.


----------



## project86

lukeap69 said:


> I've heard good things about the Bakoon. If John can include it in his shootout, I have no objection.


 
  
  
 I was not blown away by the more expensive Bakoon, but there's always a chance I'd like the subsequent model. It's not unheard of for more expensive older models to be surpassed by the cheaper next-gen model.
  
 That said, I seriously doubt I'll be attacking this amp shootout anytime soon. Sounds fun, but I've got so much on my plate right now that I don't think I can take anything new on for a while.


----------



## lukeap69

project86 said:


> I was not blown away by the more expensive Bakoon, but there's always a chance I'd like the subsequent model. It's not unheard of for more expensive older models to be surpassed by the cheaper next-gen model.
> 
> That said, I seriously doubt I'll be attacking this amp shootout anytime soon. Sounds fun, but I've got so much on my plate right now that I don't think I can take anything new on for a while.




No pressure John, we can wait.


----------



## Sanlitun

3rdmortal said:


> For me Bakoon HPA-01 is far superior to Questyle CMA800R. I liked listening to CMA800R+HD800 but when i bought Bakoon i was completely blown away. So there are other amps there that worth of consideration too.


 
  
  
 I purchased the HPA-01 last August and I have been completely thrilled by it since then. It is in a class to itself and it sounds nothing like the CMA800R despite the current gain in the Questyle. 
  
 The thing I find about the Bakoon current output is that it is pointless to use it with any dynamic phones as it changes the sound too much. I didn't like the HD800 through the Bakoon at all. 
  
 However with planars such as LCD-X it is astonishing, near perfect top to bottom control and realism. If you are doing comparisons then the Bakoon will certainly give you something different and may make the other amps sound the same. After my time with the Bakoon I am finding that the conventional SS amps I have used have a grainy signature that I can now detect almost immediately.


----------



## 3rdmortal

sanlitun said:


> I purchased the HPA-01 last August and I have been completely thrilled by it since then. It is in a class to itself and it sounds nothing like the CMA800R despite the current gain in the Questyle.
> 
> The thing I find about the Bakoon current output is that it is pointless to use it with any dynamic phones as it changes the sound too much. I didn't like the HD800 through the Bakoon at all.
> 
> However with planars such as LCD-X it is astonishing, near perfect top to bottom control and realism. If you are doing comparisons then the Bakoon will certainly give you something different and may make the other amps sound the same. After my time with the Bakoon I am finding that the conventional SS amps I have used have a grainy signature that I can now detect almost immediately.


 
  
 Thank you. I agree with you that HPA-01 is unique product. Of course we all have different ears but i liked HD800 through current output very much. I absolutely agree that in this case HD800 becomes completely different headphone. It sounds smooth, even warm, very musical, with great amount of bass and it still sounds very detailed and clear. And that what I liked very much. I prefer to listen to HD800 this way. While other amps don`t provide me with such joy.


----------



## dbalvo

Just picked up my second CMA800r and getting ready for some dual mono action. Only problem is that my headphones terminate in a single 4-pin XLR connector.  Does anyone know where I can pick up a reasonable 4-pin -> dual 3-pin adapter to make the whole thing go?


----------



## project86

I got mine from CablePro, but I'm sure any self-respecting cable maker can also whip one up for you. It's not really the sort of thing that will be on their menu but give them an email and I'm sure most would be willing to help.


----------



## ogodei

I had mine built by Ted Allen at headphonelounge, Head-Fi member "teds headfood".


----------



## maro73

Hello
 How do you use only one CMA800R with the balanced output (I believe 3 pin XLR) ?
 Normally balanced cables terminate in 4 pin XLR , at least for those I saw regarding the HD 800
 Sorry if this question has alreafy been posted
 Thanks


----------



## project86

maro73 said:


> Hello
> How do you use only one CMA800R with the balanced output (I believe 3 pin XLR) ?
> Normally balanced cables terminate in 4 pin XLR , at least for those I saw regarding the HD 800
> Sorry if this question has alreafy been posted
> Thanks


 
  
  
 A CMA800R can only run single ended mode. The XLR is for pairing with another CMA800R - each unit can run one side of a headphone in balanced mode.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Walp, I just went and grabbed two of these for monoblock duties. Heard them like that at A2A with my HE-6 and other headphones and came away very impressed indeed. Look forward to June and getting my Ether in to pair up with the stack.


----------



## project86

Nice! I agree, a stack of two CMA800R is mighty impressive indeed.


----------



## NZtechfreak

project86 said:


> Nice! I agree, a stack of two CMA800R is mighty impressive indeed.


 
  
 I was quite taken aback by the sound quality actually, having never heard of them prior to that day. Seems criminal to me that these are not better known here at Head-Fi, although I see recently they have been impressing people at some meets - a lot people declaring the HD800 pairing with them single-ended the best they've heard the HD800 (and even best in show for some of those people).
  
 You might be able to answer a question for me here, by the by. I presume I can connect them to the Vega single-ended and balanced, and switch between the two inputs and outputs with a flick of the switch? Will be nice to be able to compare say the HD800 SE to the HE-6 and Ether balanced with very little delay.


----------



## project86

Hmmmm.... I want to say I _think_ that would work. I'm sure I've tried it at some point.
  
 The only thing to watch out for would be volume control. You spend a lot of time matching each channel just right in monoblock mode, and then for SE mode you'll probably end up adjusting one of them. So you'd have to match again with each switch. Unless you max them out for monoblock mode and control volume with your DAC - in which case you'll _still _have to mess with volume for SE mode, but it won't be as particular.


----------



## NZtechfreak

project86 said:


> Hmmmm.... I want to say I _think_ that would work. I'm sure I've tried it at some point.
> 
> The only thing to watch out for would be volume control. You spend a lot of time matching each channel just right in monoblock mode, and then for SE mode you'll probably end up adjusting one of them. So you'd have to match again with each switch. Unless you max them out for monoblock mode and control volume with your DAC - in which case you'll _still_ have to mess with volume for SE mode, but it won't be as particular.




Yes, I had thought about the volume control. My plan, at least initially, was to max them and control volume from the Vega. From memory there isn't bit loss/truncation until you get to around 60, so hopefully that'll be enough volume attenuation (more than likely will be for the HE-6, perhaps not others) but I'll have to look that up to confirm.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Second amp arrived today, made for a very pleasant evening.


----------



## Velomane

nztechfreak said:


> Second amp arrived today, made for a very pleasant evening.


 
 That is a nice looking stack. I look forward to your impressions with the HE-6. Also, let us know how the volume issue works out.


----------



## project86

Nice!!!


----------



## jmsaxon69

nztechfreak said:


> Second amp arrived today, made for a very pleasant evening.




Great system! Have you compared the CAS192D and the Vega?


----------



## NZtechfreak

velomane said:


> That is a nice looking stack. I look forward to your impressions with the HE-6. Also, let us know how the volume issue works out.


 
  
 So far so good.
  
 Obviously only quite superficial impressions so far, but I was quite taken with how vocals sounded last night, which was interesting, because while I pay a great deal of attention to lyrics, vocals tend not to take slight back seat to other aspects of audio reproduction in my usual listening. 
  
 In terms of volume it depends on the mastering of the track. Loudness wars things require the CMA800R volume set to about 60-70% in order to have enough play to comfortably manage volume with the Vega alone when changing tracks and albums. For quieter recordings I could max the monos and use the Vega without difficulties. Given the variability and my habit to listen quite eclectically these days, rather than consuming whole albums, I just set the monos to about 70% and left things there. I was happy enough with a fairly quick and dirty by-ear volume balancing though, so I don't think I'll need to have an SPL meter stationed besides the stack anytime soon.
  
 The above only applies to the HE-6 of course, for more sensitive headphones the volume at the monos will need to be down a fair amount, but that's a problem for another day (specifically, the day my Ether's arrive).
  


project86 said:


> Nice!!!


 
  
 Thanks!
  


jmsaxon69 said:


> Great system! Have you compared the CAS192D and the Vega?


 
  
 Not direct comparison, no. When I heard the CMA800R in monoblock mode a couple of months ago though it was with my HE-6 and via the CAS192D. From memory I really enjoyed the sound of that pairing, enough to make me interested to compare the two side-by-side sometime, perhaps my memory is faulty (this far out I wouldn't rely on anyones memory of audio impressions, much less mine) but I do actually wonder if the CAS192D might play to the HE-6 better than my Vega.


----------



## jgwtriode

armaegis said:


> The Yggy has caught my interest, even though I haven't been too enthused with Schiit gear in the past (I don't actively dislike them; they just didn't suit my tastes). I'm also intrigued by the upcoming Bottlehead DAC and the DDDAC 1794. For some reason those three and their particular implementations has piqued my curiosity.
> 
> I do think I need a dac with higher output potential, but at the same time I like to have a small form factor (which is one major appeal of my Echo2, which is tiny yet still has 4 channel output as well as 2 channel input).
> 
> Of course, if I get something higher up then I'm going to be tempted to get some Questyle monos...


 
 Check out the DDdac 1794 based  Single Board Upgrade Thread on Diyaudio...if you want to get a sense of what is being done even with just a single board version.  Some pretty wild stuff.  According to Carlsor.  His full tilt single board version holds its own with 10 to 20 thousand dollar dacs.  Some pretty amazing stuff going on.  I am currently waiting for parts to finish my version which includes most of what has been discussed on the Upgrade thread.   Even stock it's supposed to quite remarkable.
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## Armaegis

Intriguing, but I hardly have time for big DIY projects anymore these days. My entire amp situation has changed recently too, so I'm not even sure what I should be looking for dac-wise.


----------



## jgwtriode

armaegis said:


> Intriguing, but I hardly have time for big DIY projects anymore these days. My entire amp situation has changed recently too, so I'm not even sure what I should be looking for dac-wise.


 
 No doubt the Doc's Bottlehead Dac will be excellent performance and value for the money.  It went from a Kit to being basically a prebuilt.  I pretty seriously considered it until I found
 the DDdac 1794!
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## goropeza

Anybody know how this amp would match with a low impedance headphone like the TH 900's? I have heard the CMA 800i with the HD 800 and I was blown away. That is TRULY hi-fi sound, and I have heard quite a few rigs up to this point. I've heard something along the lines of impedance matching for this amp, but im not informed enough to really know what that means. Does this mean the amp can match a current with a high impedance headphone like the HD 800 and a low impedance headphone like the TH 900?


----------



## NZtechfreak

goropeza said:


> Anybody know how this amp would match with a low impedance headphone like the TH 900's? I have heard the CMA 800i with the HD 800 and I was blown away. That is TRULY hi-fi sound, and I have heard quite a few rigs up to this point. I've heard something along the lines of impedance matching for this amp, but im not informed enough to really know what that means. Does this mean the amp can match a current with a high impedance headphone like the HD 800 and a low impedance headphone like the TH 900?


 
  
 Others with a better grasp of the technicalities will no doubt chime in, but there shouldn't be a problem with the TH-900. Checking Fostex site their impedance is 25ohm, so you're ideally looking for an amp output impedance less than 8x that value (with dynamic drivers and balanced armature designs, too high an output impedance from the amp might result in wonky frequency responses at some frequencies, worth noting that planar magnetics do not exhibit this behaviour). I can't recall the output impedance of the CMA800R (and a brief search didn't readily throw that up for me), but it is very low (less than 1 or 2 ohm from memory), and won't cause problems with the TH-900. I have used mine with the T5p rated at 32ohm without any problems. The current drive aspect of the CMA800R applies in the gain stage, rather than the output stage, so doesn't require any special matching with the transducer as far as I'm aware - no doubt project86 can supply more detail around that.


----------



## project86

The CMA800R has an output impedance of less than 1 ohm. So no impedance related issues there at all. The only thing I'd be concerned about is gain. TH900 is rather easy to drive, and with the CMA800R gain comes on real strong, real quick. So there's not a ton of usable volume range before it starts getting too loud. I didn't find this to be a deal breaker but I don't know what volumes you listen at. It depends on the music being played as well. 
  
 I do think the CMA800i all-in-one unit has a better gain structure. It seems more capable of driving sensitive headphones and even IEMs while still giving plenty of usable volume range.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Further to project86 post, regarding usable volume range, that may not be such an issue if you have a DAC with some non-destructive volume control in front of the amp. Just something to think about.


----------



## project86

nztechfreak said:


> Further to project86 post, regarding usable volume range, that may not be such an issue if you have a DAC with some non-destructive volume control in front of the amp. Just something to think about.


 
  
  
 Good point. People balk at digital volume controls, but many of the better ones can give substantial attenuation with no loss of resolution. Even poor ones should be fine with a modest cut of maybe 10dB, which will give some more usable range on the CMA800R.


----------



## goropeza

Thanks a lot for the reply guys! The CMA 800i is on my wish list since I heard the HD 800 pairing at the Nashville meet a little while back. It really impressed me so i was wondering how/if they would pair with the TH 900. Your responses helped a lot so thanks!


----------



## NZtechfreak

goropeza said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply guys! The CMA 800i is on my wish list since I heard the HD 800 pairing at the Nashville meet a little while back. It really impressed me so i was wondering how/if they would pair with the TH 900. Your responses helped a lot so thanks!




You're welcome! I think the CMA800i is a fantastic buy, 80% of the goodness of the individual DAC and amp units for something like half the cost. I think for HD800 users I'd happily recommend that as a very good end-to-end 'end-game' HD800 rig (bearing in mind that when I say 'end-game', what I mean by that is that one could happily rest there without ever 'needing' to upgrade if one desired to).

I just purchased the HD800 again collecting tomorrow, look forward to hearing it in my current rig.


----------



## Levaix

So is this the thread for the i and R as well? I heard the 800i at the Chicago meet and I was blown away at the sound... out of my Ultrasone Signature Pros, no less! Apparently the right low impedance headphones can be a match for this unit.  The sound was amazingly light yet powerful at the same time. I didn't feel any lack of bass or impact, but it just had a certain finesse that amps like the Liquid Carbon weren't achieving.
  
 Now to start saving up...


----------



## project86

levaix said:


> So is this the thread for the i and R as well? I heard the 800i at the Chicago meet and I was blown away at the sound... out of my Ultrasone Signature Pros, no less! Apparently the right low impedance headphones can be a match for this unit.  The sound was amazingly light yet powerful at the same time. I didn't feel any lack of bass or impact, but it just had a certain finesse that amps like the Liquid Carbon weren't achieving.
> 
> Now to start saving up...


 
  
  
 Sure, why not? Questyle's other products don't get as much discussion as the CMA800R, so we can fold all discussion into this thread.
  
 And yes, the CMA800i is excellent! I actually think it's better than the 800R in some cases. Specifically with sensitive cans and IEMs. I think they rate the gain as being similar but in the real world the i has a lot more room for volume adjustment versus the R, and thus is a better match for my Noble K10, AKG K812, etc. 
  
 I think the only reasons the 800i is not more popular is A) their distribution is still lacking imho, and B) most people want to go separates at this price, since they can probably afford it.


----------



## Levaix

project86 said:


> Sure, why not? Questyle's other products don't get as much discussion as the CMA800R, so we can fold all discussion into this thread.
> 
> And yes, the CMA800i is excellent! I actually think it's better than the 800R in some cases. Specifically with sensitive cans and IEMs. I think they rate the gain as being similar but in the real world the i has a lot more room for volume adjustment versus the R, and thus is a better match for my Noble K10, AKG K812, etc.
> 
> I think the only reasons the 800i is not more popular is A) their distribution is still lacking imho, and B) most people want to go separates at this price, since they can probably afford it.


 
 That's interesting to hear the i allows for more sensitivity than the R. Makes me glad I have low impedance headphones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I totally agree with the distribution issue. FWIW, I posted to Questyle's Facebook page and their VP PMed me with a direct number to order from. At $2500 I really can't justify ordering it right now, but it's nice to have an end goal in mind.
  
 BTW, read your review on this unit, good job! I wish there were more information out there. It is quite a lot of money, so it's tough to order something like this when there are so many options out there.


----------



## project86

Agreed, it's a lot of $$$ to send without a whole lot of feedback. I know my review is only one voice, and I'd love to see a bunch more out there. Also user discussion on the forums is great to have, because sometimes people uncover things (good or bad) in their system that I never had experience with. Incompatibility issues, reliability problems, special synergy with a particular headphone or amp or whatever.... there's lots more to be discovered, more than I could hope to find on my own.


----------



## NZtechfreak

project86 said:


> Agreed, it's a lot of $$$ to send without a whole lot of feedback. I know my review is only one voice, and I'd love to see a bunch more out there. Also user discussion on the forums is great to have, because sometimes people uncover things (good or bad) in their system that I never had experience with. Incompatibility issues, reliability problems, special synergy with a particular headphone or amp or whatever.... there's lots more to be discovered, more than I could hope to find on my own.




Yes, it would be good if more discussion here. If you look at meet impressions this year though, Questyle have really been getting out there and there is quite a lot to see. The 800i has routinely been called 'the best pairing I've heard with the HD800' in that feedback, and for some the best thing they heard at the meets full stop. For the asking price I think the 800i is a bargain at the high/higher-end.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wanted to chime in and say that I picked this up on somewhat of a whim about two weeks ago. I'm using the hd800 and hd650 with it mostly and I've been completely impressed with the Questyle. 
  
 Current mode is a different kind of approach and sound...and one that I find incredibly musical. Smooth, resolving, nothing harsh and promotes cohesion in the signature. I really like it a lot. Very versatile also. Not much to complain about. 
  
 Very sexy chassis with the buttery smooth powder coat finish. The ONLY complaint that I have is the choice to utilize the dual amp mono block instead of a balanced option for each amp. There are not many who can afford this amp in the first place but the group who can afford two is downright miniscule. But there are lot's of people who can afford to buy or make a balanced cable. Other than that one quibble, I love it. Using the Gungnir multibit and they make a very good match.


----------



## NZtechfreak

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to chime in and say that I picked this up on somewhat of a whim about two weeks ago. I using the hd800 and hd650 with it mostly and I've been completely impressed with the Questyle.
> 
> Current mode is a different kind of approach and sound...and one that I find incredibly musical. Smooth, resolving, nothing harsh and promotes cohesion in the signature. I really like it a lot. Very versatile also. Not much to complain about.
> 
> Very sexy chassis with the buttery smooth powder coat finish. The ONLY complaint that I have is the choice to utilize the dual amp mono block instead of a balanced option for each amp. There are not many who can afford this amp in the first place but the group who can afford two is downright miniscule. But there are lot's of people who can afford to buy or make a balanced cable. Other than that one quibble, I love it. Using the Gungnir multibit and they make a very good match.


 
  
 Ah, you got it! Sorry, I meant to get back to your PM about the CMA800R pairing with the HD800, but hadn't got round to it (life unfortunately crazy busy here between work, family (twins!), finishing my medical specialty training and organising this years national headphone meet here in NZ).
  
 Glad you like it! For me so much to love even apart from the sound - the pre-amp ability, the dual SE outputs - makes for such a versatile system. Regards the sound, for me it pulls off a fairly remarkable feat of being smooth while simultaneously being extremely clean, articulate, resolving and dynamic. I think that's why the pairing with the HD800 is so good, it plays not only to that headphones weaknesses, but also its strengths. That's a line not many other amps can walk.
  
 Regards getting a second one - do keep an eye out for second hand - you can open the chassis and change the power supply between 110v and 220/30v. I got my monoblock pair here on Head-Fi, two units going at the same time and picked them up for the price of a single one new. With the HE-6 in mind it was monoblocks or nothing for my particular set-up.


----------



## project86

Yes, I do see them go for a good price in the forums every once in a while. I still use monoblocks with HE-6 on a regular basis, it's very impressive.


----------



## Levaix

Anybody able to compare the 800i (or any of them really) with the Cavalli Liquid Crimson? That special is really tempting...


----------



## MattTCG

I heard them recently at a meet in Nashville. The short answer is that the Crimson is a little warmer with a touch more richness but lacks some of the detail of the Questyle. After hearing them both together (second time) I'm still very happy with my 800r.


----------



## Levaix

matttcg said:


> I heard them recently at a meet in Nashville. The short answer is that the Crimson is a little warmer with a touch more richness but lacks some of the detail of the Questyle. After hearing them both together (second time) I'm still very happy with my 800r.


 
 Thanks for the quick reply! Realistically I should probably be paying stuff off instead of adding, lol, so this definitely makes it easier.


----------



## thecrow

any views on how the cas192d would pair with the tube amp of the wa2 and hd800s?
  
 am i right in thinking the cas192d has a very good level of detail and clarity but may lean to a slightly bright presentation?
  
 i currently have the irdac and i'm assuming the irdac is warmer and has somewhat less detail
  
 your experienced views are much appreciated
 peter


----------



## 514077

Has there been any comparison between CAS192 and other DACs feeding the 800R; or any other amps for that matter?


----------



## MattTCG

uelong said:


> Has there been any comparison between CAS192 and other DACs feeding the 800R; or any other amps for that matter?


 
 Can you ask this question in a different way? I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.


----------



## 514077

You're right.  What I mean is, I have aHugo.  However, I also have the QP1R, and think it's the best-sounding DAP I've heard, let alone bought.
 I've thought the 800r might be a nice complement to mate with the Hugo for a bit more push with my LCD-Xs for one.
 So, I'm curious wheather that might be a combo worth considering, or might the CAS192 be a better DAC to match with the 800, besides that they're both  Questyle.
 So, I guess in the long run, my question is 'how does the 192 stack up against other DACs such as the Hugo?
 Thanks for your patience.


----------



## MattTCG

I had the CAS192 for a weeks audition. I thought it was good and that the DAC was very decent. Nothing exceptional IMHO, but a good solid DAC. I thought that the uberfrost was a better DAC. 
  
 I love the 800r with the lcd2 and lcd3 but have never owned the lcd-x.


----------



## 514077

matttcg said:


> I had the CAS192 for a weeks audition. I thought it was good and that the DAC was very decent. Nothing exceptional IMHO, but a good solid DAC. I thought that the uberfrost was a better DAC.
> 
> I love the 800r with the lcd2 and lcd3 but have never owned the lcd-x.


 

 Thanks for that.  I was thinking that the 800R might be a nice complement to my Xs, but wondering if the 192 would be worth it.
 I think I'll keep an eye out for a used 800R.


----------



## project86

I like the CAS192D quite a bit. I'd put it on par with Hugo (I have both) though each has their own character. Hugo probably digs deeper as far as detail retrieval, though at the cost of some timbral accuracy. CAS192D is slightly more "musical" but still very detailed and accurate, and is not what I'd call a warm DAC overall. Both are very good DACs.


----------



## Levaix

Anyone see the new 600i? Don't know how far it is in development or close to release, but it looks like a balanced version of the 800i. Shown here under a golden 800R.










 

 EDIT: Looks like there's more info here: http://headphone.guru/the-source-av-presents-questyle-a-personal-audio-event/

  


> The CMA600i is a desktop DAC/amp combo that is able to handle just about any form of digital input that you can throw at it, converting both PCM (up to 24/192) and DSD up to double-rate DSD.  The signal is then fed into their Current Mode Amplification stage where you can opt for either single-ended or balanced output.  And it retails at a very reasonable $1,299.  But wait, that’s not the best part!  The best thing about the CMA600i is that it’s finished in a bad ass gunmetal (and not a boring silver finish).


 

 Wonder where they made their compromises? Or maybe they found a way to cut production costs?


----------



## DGCFAD

levaix said:


> Anyone see the new 600i? Don't know how far it is in development or close to release, but it looks like a balanced version of the 800i. Shown here under a golden 800R.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It uses a less expensive DAC chip, as it is still in development, I don't know what other differences there will be.


----------



## Levaix

dgcfad said:


> It uses a less expensive DAC chip, as it is still in development, I don't know what other differences there will be.


 
 Do you mean that it uses something less expensive than the WM8741? Or a different implementation? Because the 8741 is only like 20 USD by itself... Unless there are different variants. You'll have to excuse me, I'm a layman when it comes to this kind of stuff.


----------



## MattTCG

Wow, that looks like a very nice all in one solution. I own the cma800r and continue to be amazed at just how good this amp is.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Very nice looking indeed! Love the gunmetal.


----------



## project86

When I first discovered Questyle, one of their models listed was something called the CMA600. I don't know if it ever officially released overseas but I'm fairly sure we didn't get it in the USA - they wanted to focus on just a few models initially.
  
 Anyway, it was the size of the compact Q192 DAC/amp unit, but it was purely an amp only. And it had the interesting twist of being able to swap amp modules, much like a HiFiMAN HM901. It was dual mono amps, so you'd need a one module for each side, and I think they had 3 different modules available. They were said to have different strengths for a variety of headphones - different impedance, sensitivity, etc. 
  
 I don't remember enough to be more specific, and I'm too lazy to google it, but that seemed like a very interesting little unit. Maybe the CMA600i is somehow related. Put that amp portion with the DAC part of the Q192 and you'd have a rather nice setup indeed. Just speculating though.


----------



## Levaix

project86 said:


> When I first discovered Questyle, one of their models listed was something called the CMA600. I don't know if it ever officially released overseas but I'm fairly sure we didn't get it in the USA - they wanted to focus on just a few models initially.
> 
> Anyway, it was the size of the compact Q192 DAC/amp unit, but it was purely an amp only. And it had the interesting twist of being able to swap amp modules, much like a HiFiMAN HM901. It was dual mono amps, so you'd need a one module for each side, and I think they had 3 different modules available. They were said to have different strengths for a variety of headphones - different impedance, sensitivity, etc.
> 
> I don't remember enough to be more specific, and I'm too lazy to google it, but that seemed like a very interesting little unit. Maybe the CMA600i is somehow related. Put that amp portion with the DAC part of the Q192 and you'd have a rather nice setup indeed. Just speculating though.


 
 It doesn't look related to me. I ran across the CMA600 while Googling for the new model, and it looks like an extremely different beast. It's also interesting to me that the 600i is actually larger than the 800R (and I assume the 800i?).


----------



## DGCFAD

levaix said:


> Do you mean that it uses something less expensive than the WM8741? Or a different implementation? Because the 8741 is only like 20 USD by itself... Unless there are different variants. You'll have to excuse me, I'm a layman when it comes to this kind of stuff.


 
 Different DAC chips require different support, therein lies the cost difference.


----------



## DGCFAD

project86 said:


> When I first discovered Questyle, one of their models listed was something called the CMA600. I don't know if it ever officially released overseas but I'm fairly sure we didn't get it in the USA - they wanted to focus on just a few models initially.
> 
> Anyway, it was the size of the compact Q192 DAC/amp unit, but it was purely an amp only. And it had the interesting twist of being able to swap amp modules, much like a HiFiMAN HM901. It was dual mono amps, so you'd need a one module for each side, and I think they had 3 different modules available. They were said to have different strengths for a variety of headphones - different impedance, sensitivity, etc.
> 
> I don't remember enough to be more specific, and I'm too lazy to google it, but that seemed like a very interesting little unit. Maybe the CMA600i is somehow related. Put that amp portion with the DAC part of the Q192 and you'd have a rather nice setup indeed. Just speculating though.


 
 The CMA600i is essentially the replacement for the Q192 which has been discontinued due to its lack of support for DSD. Since it is still in development I can't give much more detail, but it won't be modular in design.


----------



## DGCFAD

levaix said:


> It doesn't look related to me. I ran across the CMA600 while Googling for the new model, and it looks like an extremely different beast. It's also interesting to me that the 600i is actually larger than the 800R (and I assume the 800i?).


 
 It is the same chassis size as the CMA800R and CMA800i.


----------



## MattTCG

While I love the sound quality and build quality of the 800r, I do have one gripe. I wish that it had balanced 4 pin output. The mono block setup is uber cool but over kill for me given my headphones and budget. Maybe if I were driving the he6, it would be useful to run these in mono block. An 800r with 4 pin balanced would be end game for me on the solid state front.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Agree, would be more ideal to have the 4-pin XLR also.


----------



## Levaix

>


 
  


dgcfad said:


> It is the same chassis size as the CMA800R and CMA800i.


 

 I'm assuming this is just weird perspective, then?


----------



## DGCFAD

matttcg said:


> While I love the sound quality and build quality of the 800r, I do have one gripe. I wish that it had balanced 4 pin output. The mono block setup is uber cool but over kill for me given my headphones and budget. Maybe if I were driving the he6, it would be useful to run these in mono block. An 800r with 4 pin balanced would be end game for me on the solid state front.


 


nztechfreak said:


> Agree, would be more ideal to have the 4-pin XLR also.


 

 The problem with that is it wouldn't gain you anything, it would be the same output as the single ended except though a balanced connector. With the mono output you are getting four times the output, plus a lower noise floor and lower distortion levels.


----------



## DGCFAD

levaix said:


> I'm assuming this is just weird perspective, then?


 
 Yes, notice that they are askew of each other.


----------



## NZtechfreak

dgcfad said:


> The problem with that is it wouldn't gain you anything, it would be the same output as the single ended except though a balanced connector. With the mono output you are getting four times the output, plus a lower noise floor and lower distortion levels.




I'm aware of the benefits, I have them in monoblock configuration. I meant it'd be nice to have 4-pin XLR instead of one of the single-ended outputs, but obviously only if the design was such that this output was fully balanced.


----------



## MattTCG

nztechfreak said:


> I'm aware of the benefits, I have them in monoblock configuration. I meant it'd be nice to have 4-pin XLR instead of one of the single-ended outputs, but obviously only if the design was such that this output was fully balanced.


 
 This.


----------



## Levaix

It's odd to me that the new 600i is going to have balanced output while the flagship models are still single ended. The 800i was looking like my endgame at this point (since I don't need the extra power for my Sig Pros), but I'd love to take advantage of my recent retermination... I guess I'll have to try and wait for an event where I can try both to see which will be better for my needs.


----------



## DGCFAD

nztechfreak said:


> I'm aware of the benefits, I have them in monoblock configuration. I meant it'd be nice to have 4-pin XLR instead of one of the single-ended outputs, but obviously only if the design was such that this output was fully balanced.


 
  
 The problem is that you are talking about a much more expensive piece, as it would require 4 channels of amplification, and reduced single ended performance, since you would have the same power supply (actually, would probably have to reduce the power supply to make room for the extra 2 channels of amplification).


----------



## ti5002000

Hi John 
 I will ask you if you please can ask me a few questions :
 What Dac is better in detail retrieval and accuracy? 
 Yulong da8 II, chord Hugo or Cma800i?
 With hd800 you can spot differences between cma800i only amplifier and cma800r in terms of sound quality? 
 Auralic Taurus in balanced or cma800r in single ended? Which is best? 
  
 Regards 
  
 Tiago


----------



## project86

ti5002000 said:


> Hi John
> I will ask you if you please can ask me a few questions :
> What Dac is better in detail retrieval and accuracy?
> Yulong da8 II, chord Hugo or Cma800i?
> ...


 
  
 Hi Tiago,
  
 Tough competition there. All three devices are really nice but I personally like CMA800i the most. If pure detail retrieval is your thing and you want absolute maximum inner detail, the Hugo might be the best choice. CMA800i is only behind by a hair though and has a more organic, well balanced sound overall. DA8 II trails them both in detail and is generally a different sound - thicker, warmer, though not overly so, it isn't as lit up in the treble region.  
  
 With HD800 I do think the CMA800R is an improvement over the CMA800i. Not massive by any means though. Only spotted during critical listening. We're talking well beyond the point of diminishing returns at this stage.
  
 CMA800R is more detailed than Taurus, no matter how you run Taurus. The AURALiC model is warmer and somewhat smoother overall. More relaxed listening while CMA800R is more upright, full attention, active listening. 
  
 So, depending on what you want, it's still a tough choice. Sorry!


----------



## ti5002000

project86 said:


> Hi Tiago,
> 
> Tough competition there. All three devices are really nice but I personally like CMA800i the most. If pure detail retrieval is your thing and you want absolute maximum inner detail, the Hugo might be the best choice. CMA800i is only behind by a hair though and has a more organic, well balanced sound overall. DA8 II trails them both in detail and is generally a different sound - thicker, warmer, though not overly so, it isn't as lit up in the treble region.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the answers John.
 I´ve been looking also for your favourite dac the resonessencelabs Invicta.
  
 What are your thoughts , comparing the headphone output between the cma800i and the invicta?
 And the sound overall?
  
 Thanks so much


----------



## project86

I actually use the Invicta Mirus which is pure DAC only, no headphone output. Prior to the Mirus I had the original Invicta but at that time Questyle was not around yet. So I've never compared them directly. Sorry!


----------



## ti5002000

No problem jonh. Thanks for take some of your time to answer my questions. 
  
 Regards 
  
 Tiago


----------



## MattTCG

Well, I finally had an opportunity to take the plunge and acquire a second 800r for the full dual mono setup. In fairness, I didn't honestly expect a remarkable difference. But given my love for the this amp, I felt that I had to have the opportunity to try it out. These are my very brief observation after spending a week with the dual setup...
  
 *imaging and separation are notably improved, which I wasn't expecting.
  
 *sub bass slams better.
  
 *mids are more fleshed out and natural. 
  
 *can now drive orthos to their true potential. 
  
 *I expected "too much" and difficult to control volume. Not at all. I still have plenty of play with the pot. 
  
 After using the dual mono setup for a week. It would be very difficult to go back. I just love the sound I'm getting from this setup. Before taking the plunge, I thought it was a little gimmicky and I was irritated with Questyle for not making this a balanced amp from the beginning. But now that I've experienced the effect of the design, I can truly appreciate their effort. Oh, and the bling factor ain't bad either.


----------



## 514077

matttcg said:


> Well, I finally had an opportunity to take the plunge and acquire a second 800r for the full dual mono setup. In fairness, I didn't honestly expect a remarkable difference. But given my love for the this amp, I felt that I had to have the opportunity to try it out. These are my very brief observation after spending a week with the dual setup...
> 
> *imaging and separation are notably improved, which I wasn't expecting.
> 
> ...


 

 Good thing you kept the original one.  Can't remember, are you driving them with the CAS192?


----------



## MattTCG

uelong said:


> Good thing you kept the original one.  Can't remember, are you driving them with the CAS192?


 
  
 Just sold my dac-19 and trying to work out the money for an yggy but may have to settle for the Gumby.


----------



## Sanlitun

I picked up the new HD800S to try out about a week ago and dug my CMA800R out of the closet. This just may be a very very good match and I certainly feel it is better than my experience with the old HD800.
  
 Seeing as the HD800S comes with a balanced cable I was looking to try it out, maybe on something like the Mjolnir 2. Have any Questyle owners tried the M2? Is it worth the time?


----------



## MattTCG

sanlitun said:


> I picked up the new HD800S to try out about a week ago and dug my CMA800R out of the closet. This just may be a very very good match and I certainly feel it is better than my experience with the old HD800.
> 
> Seeing as the HD800S comes with a balanced cable I was looking to try it out, maybe on something like the Mjolnir 2. Have any Questyle owners tried the M2? Is it worth the time?


 
  
 I have both amps...actually I have a pair of cma's and I'm using the mjo2 as a pre-amp. The dual cma's are for the full mono balanced. I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's the best setup that I've owned with the hd800s.


----------



## Sanlitun

matttcg said:


> I have both amps...actually I have a pair of cma's and I'm using the mjo2 as a pre-amp. The dual cma's are for the full mono balanced. I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's the best setup that I've owned with the hd800s.


 

 Thanks for the reply. How do you feel about the MJ2 balanced vs the CMA single ended?


----------



## MattTCG

sanlitun said:


> Thanks for the reply. How do you feel about the MJ2 balanced vs the CMA single ended?


 
  
 Well, even with very nice NOS tubes the dual cma setup outshines the mjo2 when using the hd800/s. The single cma against the mjo2 would be an interesting fight. Honestly, I have used a single cma in quite a while nor compared a single against the schiit amp. But I'll put it to the test and let you know.


----------



## Chillzone21

will it drive the he6?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Some of the reviews say that it will but I can't verify it. Haven't tried it myself.


----------



## NZtechfreak

chillzone21 said:


> will it drive the he6?




Yes. Love my HE6 with my CMA800R monoblocks. Revogamer also used the 6 with his, and Hansotek was blown away by the pairing.


----------



## project86

Me too!


----------



## MattTCG

The dual mono Questyle stack is something special. When you've been in the hobby for a good while and owned lot's of gear, you tend to look for certain qualities between your favorite headphone and amp..."synergy" if you will. I've owned and reviewed lot's of amps but few have impressed me like the Questyle stack. It does so many things right. But it's real trick is how well it does those things with such a diversity of headphones.
  
 Take hd800 and any planar magnetic headphone. Then try to find an amp that supports them both equally well. It's not an easy task. And it will usually be about compromises. I don't feel that I've compromised anything with the QS stack using either of those headphones.  
  
 People often ask me why I like the QS stack so much and what it really offers over just a single cma800r. It comes down to two things. First is speaker-like imaging. That's probably the first thing that struck me when I went to two amps. And secondly, it's the tonality. I rarely hear this kind of beautifully rendered tone in a solid state amp. The tone of the mids sounds much more like a good tube amp than a solid state amp.  
  
 If anyone wants to hear the QS stack, I'll be at the Atlanta meet with them a week from today.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Agree. I don't currently own an HD800, but did not long ago, and loved the pairing. In fact I've loved every headphone I've head from them. HE6, Ether and Ether C, LCD-4, ZMF gear, MHP1000, everything.


----------



## MattTCG

If anyone is looking to sell this amp, pm me.


----------



## project86

Don't you already have one, or maybe two?


----------



## MattTCG

I have one now and would like a second!


----------



## project86

matttcg said:


> I have one now and would like a second!


 
  
  
 And now you've got one up for sale again? Plans keep changing?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I want two or none. Not one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't think that I have much of a shot to score a nice used one for a decent price.


----------



## 514077

matttcg said:


> ^^ I want two or none. Not one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry to but in, but, with the new gold series coming out, you may have a better chance of scoring a used twin.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Out of curiosity, have people tried comparing this amp directly to other high end amps? I'm curious how it stacks up as an "end game"... Or if there are any significant improvements to be gotten from other options other than signature? 
 I love Cavalli's sound for example, and they have nice resolution, but I've never managed to compare one to this amp directly, if it can hold its own?
 Bryston and the Taurus are also some very reputable solidstate amps... There seems to be somewhat a lack of writing out there about the CMA800R?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

random lunatic said:


> Out of curiosity, have people tried comparing this amp directly to other high end amps? I'm curious how it stacks up as an "end game"... Or if there are any significant improvements to be gotten from other options other than signature?
> I love Cavalli's sound for example, and they have nice resolution, but I've never managed to compare one to this amp directly, if it can hold its own?
> Bryston and the Taurus are also some very reputable solidstate amps... There seems to be somewhat a lack of writing out there about the CMA800R?




Interesting you mention because I was listening to the Cavalli Liquid Gold at the store and also The Questyle Gold Stack. I didn't take a ton of time trying to compare, but It was awesome to compare house sounds of each. Were you interested in the cma800 by its self or 2 of them used in dual mono in regards to comparing?


----------



## Random Lunatic

mtmecraig said:


> Interesting you mention because I was listening to the Cavalli Liquid Gold at the store and also The Questyle Gold Stack. I didn't take a ton of time trying to compare, but It was awesome to compare house sounds of each. Were you interested in the cma800 by its self or 2 of them used in dual mono in regards to comparing?


 
  I have one, but have been considering wether its worth getting another (and dealing with the separate analogue potentiometers... Digital would have made it so much easier)... Or wether I should go for something else like a Phonitor. So a bit of both I suppose. Any informations is interesting me to be honest, since I'm just trying to gage how good it really is in the grand scheme of things 
  
 I mostly use dynamics like HD800 etc. by the way, I've tried my hand at large orthos like the LCD-4 and HE1000, but can never seem to agree with them in the long run, and end up selling them.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Oh gotcha. In regards to lcd 4 and He1000, the sound sigs just not your cup of tea? Currently I have a Utopia that can run the dual mono. Would have to look what other cables we have to try more cans.... Would like to use the hd800 to get impressions since you like that and I could tell how the synergy is


----------



## Random Lunatic

That would be lovely, and yea, they are fine, but just like the Utopia, they are just too dark for my tastes - I tend to either turn up the volume to get more sparkle (bad for my ears) or be a bit bored with the sound... I like the sparkle/clarity and attack of HD800 more - one of my old favorites are also the Denon D7000, and now fostex TH600... Though they have never really responded much to amplification as they are so easy to drive.
 But HD800 I've heard the benefit of an amp with! Though again I prefer the detail and crispness of solidstate over tubes - but I do appreciate the slightly warmer more bassy sound of the Cavallis, sadly though they are generally almost impossible to get, and too expensive, short of the Carbon, which from what I hear lacks some detail compared to other high end amps...


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Right off the bat then I can say that the Questyle has more emphasis on the top end. Liquid Gold has this almost tube like sound to it and something else I can't put my finger on... but I will do more listening tomorrow and try and get back to you!


----------



## Random Lunatic

mtmecraig said:


> Right off the bat then I can say that the Questyle has more emphasis on the top end. Liquid Gold has this almost tube like sound to it and something else I can't put my finger on... but I will do more listening tomorrow and try and get back to you!


 
 Cool - the important thing there is the detail retrieval, because the primary reason I dislike tubes, is that every tube amp I've heard has reduced the detail level of the headphones due to the distortion/noise the old valve technology introduce.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I dig. We have 2 tube amps at the store at the moment and I never did an A/B of them against solid states to determine detail retrieval. What your saying is a common thing none the less.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Yea, Woo Audio amps have been most guilty of this, the Liquid Glass on the other hand seemed fine... Generally speaking I've just learned to never blind-purchase a tube amp, where as a solid state amp usually cant go completely wrong.
 I'm sort of searching for that middle ground things like the Liquid Crimson hits, but in something thats actually possible to get a hold of - and preferably a tad more affordable.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

random lunatic said:


> Yea, Woo Audio amps have been most guilty of this, the Liquid Glass on the other hand seemed fine... Generally speaking I've just learned to never blind-purchase a tube amp, where as a solid state amp usually cant go completely wrong.
> 
> I'm sort of searching for that middle ground things like the Liquid Crimson hits, but in something thats actually possible to get a hold of - and preferably a tad more affordable.




Were you looking for a tube hybrid like the Crimson or just a Cavalli that was less expensive then the Crimson and similar sound sig?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Sorry I don't want to go off topic due to curiosity, feel free to pm if you wsnt


----------



## Random Lunatic

mtmecraig said:


> Sorry I don't want to go off topic due to curiosity, feel free to pm if you wsnt


 
 I would if I could, but I'm too new on the board to have that ability it would sadly seem.
  
 As such I'm mostly looking to figure out how well the questyle compares to other high end amps - if there is any sense in "upgrading" or if it could even be called that.
  
 and alternatively, wether going for another one, for the dual mono, is worth the hassle, as I havent found any clear answe to that, which in itself leads me to suspect that it probably isn't...


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I'm tryin here buddy ha. We are adding a new edition onto the store so with people walking in and out and working I have to pump the hd800 up higher then normal. Sadly we don't have 800 balanced cords in the store so for comparisons between one and two stacks I'll use the utopia. I'll keep you posted on findings and hopefully I can get some head time that Is worthwhile for you!


----------



## Random Lunatic

Much appreciated!


----------



## MattTCG

Still love my cma800r. Would be happy to take a second one from someone looking to sell.


----------



## Random Lunatic

matttcg said:


> Still love my cma800r. Would be happy to take a second one from someone looking to sell.


 
 Heh, I'm torn between that sentiment, and wanting to try something else, like a Taurus or Phonitor...!


----------



## project86

For what it's worth, I still consider the CMA800R a very high level amp, and find the dual mono stack competitive with end game amps. For my preferences, the double stack falls slightly behind the V281 and Pass HPA-1. But it beats the Simaudio 430HA, Woo WA22, and McIntosh MHA100 by a large margin, while edging out the Taurus and Apex Peak/Volcano in most situations. I'd still take a single CMA800R over the Woo and McIntosh and maybe the Simaudio as well.


----------



## Random Lunatic

project86 said:


> For what it's worth, I still consider the CMA800R a very high level amp, and find the dual mono stack competitive with end game amps. For my preferences, the double stack falls slightly behind the V281 and Pass HPA-1. But it beats the Simaudio 430HA, Woo WA22, and McIntosh MHA100 by a large margin, while edging out the Taurus and Apex Peak/Volcano in most situations. I'd still take a single CMA800R over the Woo and McIntosh and maybe the Simaudio as well.


 
 Awesome with a few thoughts!
 What do you feel makes the Violectric better? And what about the Taurus lacks behind? And lastly, have you by chance ever heard the phonitor?


----------



## project86

random lunatic said:


> Awesome with a few thoughts!
> What do you feel makes the Violectric better? And what about the Taurus lacks behind? And lastly, have you by chance ever heard the phonitor?


 
  
 The V281 fits my sonic preferences better with being slightly warm, just a touch, while the Questyle sound is more lit up and detail oriented. Also the V281 is a powerhouse and has more juice even than the dual mono stack.
  
 Taurus falls behind by sounding just a little dull in comparison. It doesn't have the same musicality as V281 to make up the difference either. Don't get me wrong, Taurus is still a fantastic amp, I was very happy with it for years. 
  
 I've owned the original Phonitor and while I loved the adjustment options, I felt it wasn't very good as an amplifier. I believe the Phonitor II improved a bit in the amp section. From my limited time with it, I still wasn't blown away, but at least it was moving in the right direction. Haven't heard the new Phonitor X though.


----------



## MattTCG

The v281 has been on my radar to audition for some time and I just haven't gotten the opportunity. Your description makes me want to hear it even more. One thing that has held me back is owning the v200. It was WAY too warm...gooey even and I hated it.


----------



## project86

Yeah the V281 (in balanced mode) is more neutral, balanced, refined, and just overall superior to the V200. If you run a V281 in SE mode it's still better than V200.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I was listening to Massive Attack's "Angel" out of the 800r and I was loving  how much the HD800's bass could dig down deep on that track. HD800 obviously inst a bass can but it did surprise me ha.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ cma800r with the hd800 plus a little gentle EQ produces some of the best bass I've heard on a headphone....ever.


----------



## Random Lunatic

matttcg said:


> ^^ cma800r with the hd800 plus a little gentle EQ produces some of the best bass I've heard on a headphone....ever.


 
 Agreed - ever since I first got the HD800, and tried EQ'ing it, I noticed just how capable a driver it is! (If its detail/precision wasn't enough!). With tracks like Connect.Ohm - Evolution 1:1 I've had the frame of the headphone literally vibrate... It might not be a basshead can from the get-go, but it can work wonders with something like an AK-player set to exponentially raise frequencies from somewhere between 1-200hz and down! Its not going to beat out a fostex any time soon, but its more controlled - which the CMA800R aids with.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

currently doing an A/B with a bunch of cans. Using the 800i is usually my go to when I do A/B. I have really grown accustomed to this amp by now because of all the A/B ha. Trying to think what my favorite pairing is synergy wise.... What have you guys liked the most?


----------



## project86

Noble K10 and Empire Ears Zeus XR. The 800i is seriously great with IEMs. But also I like K812 and HD800S as well.


----------



## MattTCG

project86 said:


> Noble K10 and Empire Ears Zeus XR. The 800i is seriously great with IEMs. But also I like K812 and HD800S as well.


 
  
 Interesting. The cma800r has hiss with my customs, so it's interesting how good the 800i pairs with your customs.


----------



## project86

Mine too - 800R is a no go with IEMs, while 800i is spectacular with them. I hear the 600i is great as well, and hoping the upcoming 400i also does a fine job. IEMs are often difficult for nice amps, so I'm glad Questyle has it worked out on their newer models.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Strange, I haven't had issues using the 800r with IEMs every now and then. But then again I use IE800 a lot, which is suprisingly hard to drive, and thus isn't as sensitive to that sorta thing, I'll try with my customs again when I get an adaptor.


----------



## Benny-x

Speaking of newer models, what's the word on the street about the 800 Golden Reference amps? I've had my eye out for them/it*2 for a while, but I've only seen a little bit in a couple review sites and like 2 Facebook updates. 

Anyone know any more or has listened to a pair?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Beats me.... We have the whole  gold stack at the store and it rocks. I was trying to look up threads about it specifically on here but didn't get much luck. We drive the Utopia out them taking advantage of dual mono. It's more of an engaging sound to my ears. It is able to show all the details without it being forced (if that makes any sense) I don't like amps that make the details sounds forced onto me. (but thats just my tastes).


----------



## 514077

mtmecraig said:


> Beats me.... We have the whole  gold stack at the store and it rocks. I was trying to look up threads about it specifically on here but didn't get much luck. We drive the Utopia out them taking advantage of dual mono. It's more of an engaging sound to my ears. It is able to show all the details without it being forced (if that makes any sense) I don't like amps that make the details sounds forced onto me. (but thats just my tastes).


 
 Would it be possible to pull one gold version and A/B it with the regular version?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

uelong said:


> Would it be possible to pull one gold version and A/B it with the regular version?




So you want an A/B the 800r versus 800i? I will go back to the store on Monday. I could def do that for you. I usually use the HD800 to demo gear. Is there a headphone in particular you weren't curious about synergy?


----------



## 514077

mtmecraig said:


> uelong said:
> 
> 
> > Would it be possible to pull one gold version and A/B it with the regular version?
> ...


 
 I was actually thinking along the lines of 800R vs 800RGold.  If you had an LCD-X, that would be great.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

uelong said:


> I was actually thinking along the lines of 800R vs 800RGold.  If you had an LCD-X, that would be great.




I'm sorry I just have the 2 800r (part of the Gold stack) and then the 800i....


----------



## Benny-x

uelong said:


> I was actually thinking along the lines of 800R vs 800RGold.  If you had an LCD-X, that would be great.


 


mtmecraig said:


> I'm sorry I just have the 2 800r (part of the Gold stack) and then the 800i....


 
 I think he's referencing these:

  
 And not these:

  
 Which is also what I was wondering about. The gold coloured ones that are part of the Questyle Gold Reference System.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

benny-x said:


> I think he's referencing these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep! We have the gold reference series and also a lone 800i. We don't have a 800r stack for dual mono. Just the Gold stack. Geez sorry for the confusion! Probably my mistake. Thanks for helping


----------



## Benny-x

mtmecraig said:


> Yep! We have the gold reference series and also a lone 800i. We don't have a 800r stack for dual mono. Just the Gold stack. Geez sorry for the confusion! Probably my mistake. Thanks for helping


 
 Ah-ha! So you have the CMA-800R-Gold, but not the CMA-800R. And then you have the 800i besides the Gold Reference amps. Makes sense now, and you're really lucky to have those Gold Reference amps. 
  
 Maybe you could write up a bit about them and take some pics? There really is very little info about them online and next to none on here at head-fi.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

benny-x said:


> Ah-ha! So you have the CMA-800R-Gold, but not the CMA-800R. And then you have the 800i besides the Gold Reference amps. Makes sense now, and you're really lucky to have those Gold Reference amps.
> 
> Maybe you could write up a bit about them and take some pics? There really is very little info about them online and next to none on here at head-fi.




Yeah I can definetly do that. I'll be in the store next week and will sit down and take notes. I will report back! I believe I only can go dual mono with the Utopia, but can check to see if we have any other headphone chords to take advantage of the set up for both amps. If not it will just be different headphones on the one 800r Gold. Will use ld3, Z1R, and hd800 for starters. Curious to see which will have the best synergy.


----------



## Benny-x

mtmecraig said:


> Yeah I can definetly do that. I'll be in the store next week and will sit down and take notes. I will report back! I believe I only can go dual mono with the Utopia, but can check to see if we have any other headphone chords to take advantage of the set up for both amps. If not it will just be different headphones on the one 800r Gold. Will use ld3, Z1R, and hd800 for starters. Curious to see which will have the best synergy.


 
 And the pictures, don't forget the pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's really awesome news though, Craig! Those are all stellar headphones and I bet a lot of people will have a lot to gain from you sharing your thoughts on that combo.
  
 I also wonder about which will have the best synergy? My bet is the LCD-3, you have any guesses here and now?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

benny-x said:


> And the pictures, don't forget the pictures
> 
> That's really awesome news though, Craig! Those are all stellar headphones and I bet a lot of people will have a lot to gain from you sharing your thoughts on that combo.
> 
> I also wonder about which will have the best synergy? My bet is the LCD-3, you have any guesses here and now?




Honestly? I think LCD-3 is a really safe bet.... I think the 800r will take the LCD-3 out of the dark a bit and push the sound forward. Also I might take this time to get more acquainted with the LCD line up if I hear good results! I don't have a lot of knowledge with the El8, LCDX ect. I already love the Utopia with it, but that doesn't mean that another headphone could have better synergy...

and YES I will take pics!!


----------



## 514077

mtmecraig said:


> benny-x said:
> 
> 
> > And the pictures, don't forget the pictures
> ...


 
 Thanks.  I'd be interested in the LCD series sinergy.  Appreciate your time.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Just a shot I took in the moment. Going to take my time with it and give my brain time to adjust to the set up. Should have a write up by next week I would suspect. I'll be away thurs to Sunday or I would be firing this out sooner!


----------



## 514077

mtmecraig said:


> Just a shot I took in the moment. Going to take my time with it and give my brain time to adjust to the set up. Should have a write up by next week I would suspect. I'll be away thurs to Sunday or I would be firing this out sooner!


 
 Thanks, looking fwd to it.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Alright- Finally got some time and wanted to put this up. These are all my notes that I wrote while listening to the *Questyle 800R Golden* amp. I listened to more songs but didn't want this to be 30 pages long. I listened for 3 days and bounced around a lot ha.


I want it to be clear that I represent Music To My Ear in Pittsburgh (a sponsor of headfi) if you didn't already know...My name before MTMECraig was Bunnynamedfrank if you would like to know more about me. I get total freedom from Mark (the owner) to talk about whatever headphones or cans on headfi that I feel like ha. I like doing A/B a lot since I am passionate about headphones and was surprised there wasn't much info about the Gold Stack in general on here... Which brings me to this-


*The purpose of this "Experiment" was to try and see what the best synergy I got from amp,headphone and DAC*... Ill try to keep everything as transparent as possible, and obviously take this whole thing as MY opinion, but feel free to ask questions if you would like. Specific questions are easier for me to think about and look back on then trying to convey that through this text.


For all 3 days I used a Macbook running Tidal, and the USB cord was a Nordost Blue Heaven. Balanced cables for connection to amp and DAC were Nordost Heimdall 2



_*Day 1*_- Set up- Dac was *Questyle CAS 192D Golden* (USB up sampling, digital filter FIR soft knee) Connected to 800R Golden. Disclaimer- the digital filters I bounced around with on the CAS 192 D and I didn't grasp the differences enough so I just kept the one I mentioned for all the cans mentioned.


*HD800* and *HD800s* both connected- "My book of regrets" by Steven Wilson. I can tell the amp seems to be pretty neutral for both cans. The amp lets the 800 be analytical without much coloration, and the same with the 800s. The 800s (due to its inherent bass boost compared to original 800) adds a little more weight to all the music. I feel like the amp gives more then enough power and control to both cans. Between the two I enjoyed the 800s more, but not surprising since the amp is neutral. I overall prefer more warmth to the music then more precise/analytical sound.


*Audeze LCD 3- *Keeps the sound in the dark like I have always heard the LCD 3 sound before. It keeps that natural characteristic. I once again don't tell if I am missing anything from the music.  Very curious to hear this headphone on dual mono... would like to know if I was missing anything in regards to added power.


"Wish you were here" by Pink Floyd- Between the LCD 3, HD800 and HD800s  I am partial to the LCD3.... I get more feeling of this combination. David Gilmour's voice seems to be more "real" to me. The 800 and 800s may be more technically proficient but I get a smoothness to his voice that is really enjoyable. I get better flow with the music with this combo (LCD3). 


*Audeze LCD-XC, LCD 3 *both connected- "My book of regrets"by Steven Wilson-  The LCD-XC is  really making me toe tap. I think the added bass quantity (compared to LCD3) is really getting me more into the music.


"Romantic warrior" by Return to Forever-  I prefer the LCD-XC.  I feel like the highs are more present and It just sounds snappier to me.


_*Day 2 and 3- *_I wanted to revisit both the LCD 3 and the LCD-XC (and other cans) but use a different DAC section to see the difference between DACs.  This time around I use the same setup minus the Questyle CAS was changed to Chord Hugo TT. I made the switch because I use the Hugo TT a lot for its DAC and know its sound well.


*CMA800R Golden + **Hugo TT-*  After going from the CAS to the Hugo TT I like the LCD3 more with the Hugo TT combo then with the LCD-XC. I feel like the music is more natural and and closer to a vinyl sound with LCD 3 and this combo compared to LCD-XC.



"Bad Fish" by Sublime (Freaking love this track ha. not fantastic when it comes to recording but figured with Audeze it would be more then doable)  The LCD 3 and this chain it is really enjoyable... Very smooth sounding but the guitar is still crisp enough. Bass has good bump as well. For some reason I hear the LCD-XC being a little too bright for my tastes. Which surprises me...


*Focal Utopia, Sony Z1R- *"Trains" by Porcupine Tree (Shout out to @Stillhart for getting me back into them!) with the Uotpia at 3:18 the acoustic guitar mixed with the shaker sound and clapping sounds excellent.... I can pick everything apart and I love it. The Z1R doesn't fall far behind in detail but the presentation of the Utopia really lends its self fantastically to that part of the song. I am enjoying this combo of amp and DAC a lot both cans.


"Only the lonely" by Roy Orbison, off his Black & White Night Album (Thank you @Hansotek for this track)  In the beginning of the song you hear the audience cheering and clapping. With the Utopia I feel like I am right in the middle of them. Really cool effect and feels life like.  


*Z1R and Ether Flow C- *With this combo It is difficult for me to tell which headphone benefits the most from the set up. I did A/B between the two and couldn't tell. I think due to the neutral nature of the amp it would just depend on which can you like more. With the Hugo TT's coloration (if you would call it that) I figured that the Flow C would be fine but the Z1R might be too much flavor... kind of like a really warm amp on a really warm can (just an analogy) but it doesn't seem to be the case. I perceive both cans the way I always have.


_*Now for the ultimate sleeper hit!!!*_


*Beyerdynamic T1 version 2-  *Truly excellent with this combo... I feel like I get great detail and musicality with this amp/DAC combo.  I was very surprised actually, I figured the the T1v2 would need a lot warmer amp to just tame the highs slightly and make it more musical, on the contrary everything sounds fantastic. similar thing would be how I feel the HD800 needs a warm amp to make it more musical. But I love this combo a lot.


_*"Breakdown of Synergy" Ha*_


So off the bat, in a perfect world I would have the ultimate analytical yet musically engaging can. I feel that you are able to put pieces of gear together to try and get as close to that as possible, given the headphones properties. I almost don't want to even do a breakdown of "greatest to worst" since I feel like I will just confuse people into thinking that some cans sound "bad" with the gear. I only came across one can that I didn't like with the one chain but liked a lot with the other. (LCD-XC on the Questlye CAS DAC and CMA800R golden was awesome! but change the Hugo TT in the mix with it and I didn't like it as much.I Preferred the LCD 3 more with that chain.) BUT when it comes to enjoyment this is what I got out of it....


Utopia> T1v2> LCD 3 Then Z1R = Ether Flow C then HD800s >HD800 BUT LCD-XC?? (I hope you get confused from Z1R on, in the greatness scale ha.) It gets messy for me  trying to analyze all the info since I switched DACS... which i can admit skews results of synergy since I didn't get ample head time with all the cans using the CAS 192D Golden. ALSO I want to do more research about all the filters on the CAS 192D golden... 


At the end of the day(s) I think this is a really great amp... I always use the Questlye 600i when I A/B cans in the store and I plan on using the 800r Golden now for doing that. What I want to do now is use the CAS 192D Golden more as a DAC and go back and listen to the Z1R with that combo and the Utopia.


I hope this was interesting and beneficial at all to read. I want to point out that ALL gear used is on Demo to our customers in store and we encourage you  to come in and hear for your self!  At the end of the day It's just my opinion of what sounds good, so you listening to it will probably change the synergy scale ect ha.We are located in Pittsburgh and are having a meet up in the store March 24th and March 25th. You can find out more about the meet if you look up "Pittsburgh headphile" in the search bar. (don't think I am allowed to do direct links).


I am always open to conversation and enjoy talking with everyone. If you have any questions once again ask! if its off topic to the 800R golden then totally PM me.


-Craig


----------



## Benny-x

mtmecraig said:


> [.../clipped]
> Utopia> T1v2> LCD 3 Then Z1R = Ether Flow C then HD800s >HD800 BUT LCD-XC?? (I hope you get confused from Z1R on, in the greatness scale ha)


 
  
 Firstly, thanks a ton for taking the time to write up your impressions from the comparison, Craig. It's very nice to read through and the pictures were great.
  
 I had 2 take aways:
 1. I'm confused about your placement of the Z1R. So I guess that makes it a success.
 2. Did you listen to the 800R Golden amps in full dual mono mode? I thought that was what you said going into the shootout, but from your write up I think that wasn't the case?
  
 Just in regards to your mentioning about a toe tapping, musically fulfilling headphone:
 One headphone I'm really growing more and more in touch with lately is the Pioneer SE Master-1. It's got a VERY good combination of technical ability and soundstaging, but it's also got very nice, deep, palpale bass. In the end, that makes it like a very nice, technically fulfilling musical headphone. I find those items don't usually go hand in hand, but the Pioneers really seem to have it all. 
  
 The HE-6 are still my all time, bass slamming champ. Even after being out for 6-8yrs, those HE-6s are damn good headphones and still real contenders when they're played off the right amp. They're very resolving, have detailed mids, and great bass. Not the biggest soundstage, but I suppose that's where the SE Master-1s can fill in 
  
 Any experience with them?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

benny-x said:


> Firstly, thanks a ton for taking the time to write up your impressions from the comparison, Craig. It's very nice to read through and the pictures were great.
> 
> I had 2 take aways:
> 1. I'm confused about your placement of the Z1R. So I guess that makes it a success.
> ...




1- you made me lol when i read that! So when I was trying to place my synergy favorites it got really difficult to scale the 5 headphones... I felt like due to the fact I didn't get to hear all of them on both chains, it wasn't really fair to compare them at all... so basically I just wanted to say that those 3 in the front (Utopia, beyer T1v2, and LCD 3)were stand outs synergy wise. But mind you the LCD-XC was better with the one chain then the other, relative to LCD-3. Also on top of it, take into effect diffrent songs I chose would sway my opinion between the last 5. 

2- I only had the right demo cord for the utiopia to go dual mono, but didn't have any demo cords for the other headphones. (Didn't want to ask Mark to break out 6 other cords to make them all dual mono, even though I would love to hear it that way  ). So instead when I did listen to the Utopia I made sure to just run it SE so to be fair for comparison sake... for the record the Gold stack running the Utopia dual mono is what we have people listen to if they want they are unfamiliar with quality sound ha. Let's them understand real quick what Hifi sound is. 

I have yet to hear master 1 AND the HE6! I have always wanted to hear the HE6 in particular due to the praise. Master 1 I have less knowledge about.... but you do make me curious to hear it!


----------



## Clive101

Thank you Craig for the information and review.

I have a Chord Dave and intrested in the goldern stack system and wondered if you or any ony has tried or has a veiw on using two mono blocks and or adding the preamp into the mix...?

I have LCD-4 headphones and use the Dave direct to the headphones and wondered what extra I could using the Questyle amps and or preamp, while the dave is very good at powering the LCD-4 as is ..?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Clive101 said:


> Thank you Craig for the information and review.
> 
> I have a Chord Dave and intrested in the goldern stack system and wondered if you or any ony has tried or has a veiw on using two mono blocks and or adding the preamp into the mix...?
> 
> I have LCD-4 headphones and use the Dave direct to the headphones and wondered what extra I could using the Questyle amps and or preamp, while the dave is very good at powering the LCD-4 as is ..?


 
This our demo Goldstack that I use in the store. We use both Nordost and Wireworld cables to utalize the amps, fully balanced and dual mono. 

From what I hear from others in regard to the amp section of the Dave versus dual mono of the Questyle you should see a big improvement... the amp of the Dave does not compare to its amp section if that makes sense? I am not saying it's poor, it's just not as good as the DAC.

 I could see what the synergy is like between the Utopia, dual amps, pre amp and Dave if you would like? 

-Craig


----------



## Clive101

MTMECraig said:


> This our demo Goldstack that I use in the store. We use both Nordost and Wireworld cables to utalize the amps, fully balanced and dual mono.
> 
> From what I hear from others in regard to the amp section of the Dave versus dual mono of the Questyle you should see a big improvement... the amp of the Dave does not compare to its amp section if that makes sense? I am not saying it's poor, it's just not as good as the DAC.
> 
> ...



Yes I agree that while the DAC part of the Dave is outstanding. The Preamp - Headphone section on Dave is unlikely to out perform the Questyle.
If you could do a quick listen to see what gain in the two amps and then two amps plus preamp it would be use full to know if you feel it's a worth the gain, I will demo a set.
There is likely to be a loss in transparency using more equipment but the gains may be more in other areas...?


----------



## Clive101

I have finally reviewed the Gold Stack along with Chord DAVE.

Please let me explain I only interested in large changes micro dynamics for large cost is not what I am into.

At this price level both are good.

I wanted to make Dave sound better with my LCD4 headphones as my main Dave speaker system outperforms my headphone rig.

I have always been interested in The Questyle after purchasing a QPR1 so decided to take the plunge.

One thing I have discovered noise over network, when I disconnected Melco from the main network the noise level went down SQ went up, very big difference! 

Using a laptop and standard mains both sounded similar ( again no micro dynamics ). Did not go further.

With Melco N1ZH ver 1 ( the source ) with Tours power supply the SQ improved monumentally worth the extra spend.

Dave plus Questyle mono amps were better than using the Questyle Preamp with the two mono amps, Dave with two mono amps gave the classic Dave signature and no colour very transparent. Worth the extra money? Not sure..? Could be..? Do you need the extra power..?

The full Gold Stack with the Melco and Torus oh gosh. The SQ, was the best I have experienced I wish there could be other people to experience and be subjective on the test.
Say sorry to say Dave was second perhaps it was my mood but since I have had Dave now for close to a year have a rough idea how it sounds.

What ever Questyle does it's magic..! 

One thing I did find, Dave does not need a headphone amp IMO. 

Sorry for the quick review.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Wow Questyle stack taking first place over the Dave... wild stuff!

Glad you are enjoying the Gold stack btw


----------



## 397324

www.scvdistribution.co.uk isn't showing any Questyle products, apart from the QP2R & Focal headphone bundle. Who is the official UK importer now?


----------



## Benny-x

Clive101 said:


> I have finally reviewed the Gold Stack along with Chord DAVE.
> 
> Please let me explain I only interested in large changes micro dynamics for large cost is not what I am into.
> At this price level both are good.
> ...



Necro-post here. So in the end, did you sell the DAVE and replace it was a full Questyle Gold Reference stack?

I have a DSD DAC also and wonder if there'd be any magic/synergy between my T+A DAC 8 DSD and the Questyle Preamp + mono amps... I had taken these guys off my list, but I'm always left wondering about them...


----------



## Clive101

Benny-x said:


> Necro-post here. So in the end, did you sell the DAVE and replace it was a full Questyle Gold Reference stack?
> 
> I have a DSD DAC also and wonder if there'd be any magic/synergy between my T+A DAC 8 DSD and the Questyle Preamp + mono amps... I had taken these guys off my list, but I'm always left wondering about them...



I had the Questyle Gold Stack on load as needed a headphone rig and made a purchase a few months later. I had the Dave ( now with Chord Mscaler ) for a speaker system so I never intended to sell Dave.

Later there was a small fault on the Questyle so I returned the Unit for a refund..... but the combination was stellar.

Sorry I cannot advise on your T+A DAC 8 DSD synergy all I can say how the "Gold Stack" as a unit sounded to me and had synergy....but your DAC has volume control ( ? )  so perhaps you have no need for a preamp as I found a DAC with volume control sounds better than with an added preamp.....?

Note the Questyle does not have volume remote, using the preamp means a second set of XLR cables ( in my case 4 x Chord Sarum TXLR lots of extra cost ) and the DAC ( even if stellar SQ ) is a little old now.

I now am using a GSX headamp with Dave / Mscaler and switch back and forth between balanced GSX and SE Dave / Mscaler, balanced more musical and SE more transparent but slightly thin.    

As a stop gap for the momnet I am using a Onkyo XP1 balanced into the GSX with good results and also USB OTG digital for the Dave/Mscaler note anyone using an OTG cable try a    iFi Audio OTG cable for Micro USB 

The IFI was a very large improvement and for the price a no brainer IMO.

Hope that helps....


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## Benny-x

Clive101 said:


> I had the Questyle Gold Stack on load as needed a headphone rig and made a purchase a few months later. I had the Dave ( now with Chord Mscaler ) for a speaker system so I never intended to sell Dave.
> 
> Later there was a small fault on the Questyle so I returned the Unit for a refund..... but the combination was stellar.
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering about all of that, it was a great update.


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## 397324

Darren Cotter said:


> www.scvdistribution.co.uk isn't showing any Questyle products, apart from the QP2R & Focal headphone bundle. Who is the official UK importer now?



Reply from SCV on another thread:

"Just to clarify SCV are no longer representing the Questyle brand, hence why we have removed it from our site. As far as I know there is currently no one importing Questyle products into the UK."


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## Benny-x

Maybe it's all an effort to sell off old stock and then release a new Golden Reference stack?? Apple shuts down the online AppleStore before they release new products, so maybe it's the same, just more dramatic??


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## 397324

"Just to clarify SCV are no longer representing the Questyle brand". Not really more to say. The only UK importer is no longer the UK importer! lol.


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## teknorob23

late to the party i've always been keen to try the CMA800r, and i'm even more keen to see how it measures up since falling for Flux Lab Acoustics FA12. I found one today and now of course i'm looking for a second to run them as mono blocks, so if anyone here has one they'd like to sell please to me in the UK, please drop me a DM. Thanks


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## miusicmene (Aug 16, 2021)

I know it has been a while, but has anyone tried the SPL Volume2 Atenuator/Controller (or a similar component) with the cma800r monoblocks to control the stereo volume using a single knob?
I was pondering if I should add the cma800p Pre, but the consensus was that it adds coloration and one loses some transparency and SQ - In comparison to using such a component like the SPL
Some help would be much appreciated


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## up late

as there doesn't appear to be a cma800i thread i thought that i'd try my luck here. i own the burson conductor v2+ and have no complaints. but i'm drawn to questyle products and to the cma800i in particular. has anyone compared these aio units?


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## Random Lunatic

Can’t say I have, but cma800r still kicks ass - doesn’t really seem like that much has happened in amps since other than more power.


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