# JRiver Media Center 19 is better!



## gurus

Just downloaded the latest version of JRiver Media and it definitely sounds better than the previous one.
   
  Gives me some better options of using the ASIO driver for my DAC and of course I think that ASIO is the cat's meow for computer audio. So your experience might vary if you are not using ASIO.


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## Audio Addict

Thanks. I received my notice it was ready for the download and hopefully the major initial problems were resolved from the support board.


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## DefQon

Thanks for the heads up going to download mine now.


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## jjinh

This costs $50?
   
  So... what's wrong with, say, foobar?


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## zhunter

Search the keyword: "Foobar xpack", or visit the modder's site: http://vadimsva.ucoz.org/
   
  Currently I'm using the 1.09 version of xpack, dark UI, perfect player!


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## Dubstep Girl

sweet, now i will upgrade it!


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## Tony1110

I've ditched the ASIO driver I downloaded for my Conductor in favour of JRiver 19's WASAPI output and there are fewer hiccups. Using 18 I was setting it to 24 bit but it kept reverting back to 16 bit of its own accord. This version is much better. Or is it just that WASAPI output is better than ASIO?


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## Sherwood

jjinh said:


> This costs $50?
> 
> So... what's wrong with, say, foobar?




Yes, it does cost $50. Nothing at all is wrong with Foobar. I used it for years before I used JRiver.

I would have put in a lot of work and effort to do with Foobar what I do with JRiver, and I'm not sure I could do all of it. JRiver has great support, and JRemote is the greatest iPad/Android remote ever conceived. That added functionality and convenience is worth $50 to me.

It is also a stupendous video player, but I rarely use it for that.


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## Tony1110

[quote name=

I would have put in a lot of work and effort to do with Foobar what I do with JRiver, and I'm not sure I could do all of it. JRiver has great support, and JRemote is the greatest iPad/Android remote ever conceived. That added functionality and convenience is worth $50 to me.

It is also a stupendous video player, but I rarely use it for that.[/quote]

+1


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## gurus

Quote: 





tony1110 said:


> I've ditched the ASIO driver I downloaded for my Conductor in favour of JRiver 19's WASAPI output and there are fewer hiccups. Using 18 I was setting it to 24 bit but it kept reverting back to 16 bit of its own accord. This version is much better. Or is it just that WASAPI output is better than ASIO?


 
_ Not according to JRiver! The sound is the best, as I stated above while using ASIO. If you are having operational problems, talk to your hardware manufacturer,_
   
_http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes_


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## Tony1110

Can't notice any difference between the two other than there being fewer problems with WASAPI. 
They sound exactly the same to my ears. Having said that, I am fairly new to JRiver so still have quite a lot to learn.

I've an AP2 to test out tonight and I think WASAPI is the preferred output for that particular interface. Just a case of experimenting and asking lots of silly questions on here, I suppose.


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## Audio Addict

Quote: 





tony1110 said:


> [quote name=
> 
> I would have put in a lot of work and effort to do with Foobar what I do with JRiver, and I'm not sure I could do all of it. JRiver has great support, and JRemote is the greatest iPad/Android remote ever conceived. That added functionality and convenience is worth $50 to me.
> 
> It is also a stupendous video player, but I rarely use it for that.


 
 +1[/quote]

   
  JRemote is not available for Android that I could find.  They still use Gizmo as the Android app.


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## Chodi

Quote: 





gurus said:


> _ Not according to JRiver! The sound is the best, as I stated above while using ASIO. If you are having operational problems, talk to your hardware manufacturer,_
> 
> _http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes_


 
  In theory ASIO, KS and WASAPI  event are the same. They are all going to output bit perfect data and bypass the Windows mixer. In reality there could be a difference on specific hardware in the way it reacts to the driver. Kernal Streaming is the most difficult to get right since Windows was never designed for that but in theory if they all work on your computer they should all sound the same. I can hear slight differences between these on my system but it is so slight it might be placebo.
   
  Finally, I was not aware that JRiver folks were claiming any sonic benefit to their version 19 over 18 or 17. There are feature benefits but I would like to see a reference to where they say there are sonic benefits?


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## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





tony1110 said:


> [quote name=
> 
> I would have put in a lot of work and effort to do with Foobar what I do with JRiver, and I'm not sure I could do all of it. JRiver has great support, and JRemote is the greatest iPad/Android remote ever conceived. That added functionality and convenience is worth $50 to me.
> 
> It is also a stupendous video player, but I rarely use it for that.


 
 +1[/quote]

   
   
  +2
   
   
  it completely replaced itunes, windows media player, foobar, and just about any other media player i would have used.
   
  it is an amazing video player, tons of options to choose from, great for movies. the library is much more advanced than anything else i've used, and it well, does just about everything for me. its the ultimate media player for me imo.


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## Tony1110

For me too. I'm not claiming to be 100% competent with JRiver, but the excellent interface makes a highly complex piece of software as user friendly as is possible. It's as easy to use as iTunes and is more audiophile friendly than Media Monkey. Definitely worth the £31.


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## DefQon

I like the Jriver due it's great support and convenience. Unfortunately I don't have golden ears to pick up apart any differences in sound quality between foobar and JRiver so both are good players, just one is more customizable and takes bit of time, one is pretty much configured properly for you. Though the usability part of foobar is inferior to Jriver to great levels.


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## Dubstep Girl

only reason i use foobar is if i need to extract a cue sheet from a file that has the cue info embedded into it, not sure if jriver can do this as well.


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## DefQon

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> only reason i use foobar is if i need to extract a cue sheet from a file that has the cue info embedded into it, not sure if jriver can do this as well.


 
  True that forgot the cue file as well.


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## Tony1110

What is a cue sheet?


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## Chodi

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> only reason i use foobar is if i need to extract a cue sheet from a file that has the cue info embedded into it, not sure if jriver can do this as well.


 
  I use a free program named Cue Tools:  http://www.cuetools.net/wiki/Main_Page
   
  Works every time and easy  to use. I've been using this for years and it is a great tool.


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## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I use a free program named Cue Tools:  http://www.cuetools.net/wiki/Main_Page
> 
> Works every time and easy  to use. I've been using this for years and it is a great tool.


 
   
   
  how does that work?
   
  i've used cue splitter just to split cues from files when i have the sheet.
   
  and just foobar to extract an embedded cue.


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## DefQon

I drag and drop my cue files into foobar and let it do the rest of adding the track file names and etc.


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## Chodi

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how does that work?
> 
> i've used cue splitter just to split cues from files when i have the sheet.
> 
> and just foobar to extract an embedded cue.


 
  You can download it and try it for free. It's a stand alone program. You simply point it to the file for which you want a cue sheet and it extracts the information from the music files. Creates the cue sheet in 1 second. You can direct it to save the sheet anywhere you like.


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## Happy Camper

How does J work with the pdp transfers? That's the only reason I keep itunes. And will it work with rockbox?


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## preproman

dubstep girl said:


> only reason i use foobar is if i need to extract a cue sheet from a file that has the cue info embedded into it,* not sure if jriver can do this as well.*


 
  
 Sure they can.  this may help a bit.  Not sure if it's what you need.
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/419-guide-ripping-dvd-and-blu-ray-audio-using-dark-side-moon-immersion-box-set/
  


defqon said:


> I like the Jriver due it's great support and convenience. Unfortunately I don't have golden ears to pick up apart any differences in sound quality between foobar and JRiver so both are good players, just one is more customizable and takes bit of time, one is pretty much configured properly for you. Though the usability part of foobar is inferior to Jriver to great levels.


 
  
 +1 same here.  I don't use J. river for the sound.  I use it for everthing else.


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## One and a half

The best feature of 19 is DSP *PCM2DSD*. You need at least an i5 to do the calcs necessary plus have a DSD128 DAC.
  
 I never heard Redbook better, and this is on a very, very humble DSD DAC, Korg DS-DAC-10. For DSF files, a lot more detail. The Korg and the MPD-3 both use an ASIO compatible driver on Win 8.1.
  
 Cannot go back to WASAPI or any other PCM direct listening anymore, I'm hooked on DSD!


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## korzena

When the player (j.river 19) is opened, I cannot get any sound on my youtube, it's like the sound is muted on my internet browsers.
 How do I fix it?


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## Sherwood

You can get rid of it, but it affects the quality of the sound coming out of JRiver.  You're using an exclusive output, like WASAPI, ASIO, or kernel streaming, which means that when JRiver is running, it's the only thing that can use your sound card.  If you switched to directsound, you'd be able to hear youtube videos and browser sounds, but you would degrade JRiver's sound quality.  I don't think it's worth the tradeoff.


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## korzena

korzena said:


> When the player (j.river 19) is opened, I cannot get any sound on my youtube, it's like the sound is muted on my internet browsers.
> How do I fix it?


 
 Thanks for the answer.
 Stopping the music does not help neither reloading the webpage. The thing that help is what you suggested - relaunching chrome completely, but this is not very convenient.  
 Switching j.river to Direct Sound helps indeed. If it affects the sound quality of youtube I don't mind so much because I don't do headphone listening from youtube.  
 I listen on my headphones through USB converter so I switch to the different device (Hiface MK3) to USB-wasapi and it gives me the quality back.


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## gevorg

The differences between players and output modes are marginal at best. Some DACs react better to lower latencies, so ASIO or equivalent in Mac/Linux might help. If you want a major improvement, add Isone to JRiver DSP (thread) and open a whole new world of headphone soundstage tweaking.


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## korzena

gevorg said:


> The differences between players and output modes are marginal at best. Some DACs react better to lower latencies, so ASIO or equivalent in Mac/Linux might help. If you want a major improvement, add Isone to JRiver DSP (thread) and open a whole new world of headphone soundstage tweaking.


 

 Thanks for the Isone suggestion.
 I would like to believe it is as good as people say. Unfortunately most of my digital sound tweaking (equalizer, dolby and some DSPs) brought me an impression of unnaturalness in sound which I didn't like. Maybe Isone is a thing of better quality that won't give me this impression. I will probably give it a try!


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## StudioSound

gevorg said:


> The differences between players and output modes are marginal at best. Some DACs react better to lower latencies, so ASIO or equivalent in Mac/Linux might help. If you want a major improvement, add Isone to JRiver DSP (thread) and open a whole new world of headphone soundstage tweaking.


 

 JRiver is not about audio quality. They have the best audio output quality possible, but then so does any other bitperfect player.
 The reason I use JRiver is for all the other features surrounding their audio quality.
 Out of the box, there's very little that needs configured.
 It's simple to load in VST plugins.
 It can manage libraries with hundreds of thousands of tracks without breaking a sweat.
 It has best-in-class video performance to go along with its audio performance.
 It has a very powerful expression language that lets you display and sort your media however you want.
 It effortlessly manages any number of audio devices (directly connected hardware, DLNA/UPnP renderers etc) via its zone functions.
 It probably has the best native format support out there, with things like DSD playback built in.
 It has advanced features like R128 analysis and volume leveling built in - for video as well as audio.
  


korzena said:


> When the player (j.river 19) is opened, I cannot get any sound on my youtube, it's like the sound is muted on my internet browsers.
> How do I fix it?


 
  
 It sounds like you are using an exclusive output mode, which should block sound from other applications. Unfortunately some drivers don't seem to stop exclusive mode properly and you have to relaunch the application. (web browser etc.)
 If you use a non-exclusive mode (DirectSound is easiest) this shouldn't happen, but it means that audio will be going through the Windows resampler.
 I do all my YouTube watching through JRiver though, as it goes through the madVR (Red October HQ) video renderer, which is much better quality than the Flash player.
  
 As a workaround, you might be able to use multiple audio devices? I have my system audio going to my DAC via S/PDIF, and any audio going through JRiver is sent over USB.
 It's not actually been a problem with my DAC's driver, but I like having system audio and music/videos going to separate inputs - it means one never interrupts the other.
  


korzena said:


> Thanks for the Isone suggestion.
> I would like to believe it is as good as people say. Unfortunately most of my digital sound tweaking (equalizer, dolby and some DSPs) brought me an impression of unnaturalness in sound which I didn't like. Maybe Isone is a thing of better quality that won't give me this impression. I will probably give it a try!


 
  
 I prefer Redline Monitor set to 90° with the distance processing disabled. This still sounds like headphones but restores the positional cues lost when wearing headphones.


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## gevorg

studiosound said:


> JRiver is not about audio quality. They have the best audio output quality possible, but then so does any other bitperfect player.




There is more to it than bitperfect. See here. Players/OS *may* or *may not* make an audible difference, even if they're all bitperfect.


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## StudioSound

gevorg said:


> There is more to it than bitperfect. See here. Players/OS *may* or *may not* make an audible difference, even if they're all bitperfect.


 

 General consensus is that if you're picking up noise due to processor activity, you have a ground loop or another problem with your hardware.
 Regardless, JRiver uses less than 1% CPU usage during playback if minimized, so if you are concerned about that, it's about as good as it gets there too.


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## diaBoliQu3

Favorite player would be Foobar but I still try to deny any different for those two. Well, it is definitely a difference for Foobar and JRiver with kernel streaming or wasapi.


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## Dillan

Have been in love with Jriver for a while now!  Going to be upgrading from 18 to 19 in a few days.


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## cute

Anyone here using JPLAY.  I installed the trial version, and did the upgrade to full version after 30 minutes!
  
 Awesome upgrade to the sound!


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## gevorg

^^^ JPAY made no sonic differences for me, instead it introduced delays and sluggish behavior with song seeking. Uninstalled it ASAP.


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## cute

gevorg said:


> ^^^ JPAY made no sonic differences for me, instead it introduced delays and sluggish behavior with song seeking. Uninstalled it ASAP.


 
  
 There are settings in JPLAY that address those problems.....probably uninstalling ASAP, you didn't really give it a fair shot!
  
 Works for me and I think it is awesome!  But, I do understand it won't be for everyone!  Just like cables, not everyone is convinced they make a difference!
  
 YMMV, as always in this hobby!


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## gevorg

Well, there was no sound quality improvement, so I didn't bother figuring out whats causing seeking issues. Maybe the supposed sound improvement depends on DAC's jitter immunity and varies system by system. Anyway, if it works for you and you hear an improvement, great! That's all that matters.


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## imeem

in jriver, i saw the option to adjust the tempo and stuff. But now i can't find it. Where is it located? 
  
 EDIT nvm it was under DSP studio and i didn't evne see it,


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## Dubstep Girl

jayhifi said:


> jriver has completely changed my listening habits. I have replaced high-end transports with a net top PC. I truly can't believe how incredible DSD sounds. I can't put a price on jriver, I could easily justify 10x the price.


 




  
 jriver replaces itunes, windows media player, and just about any other media player i would ever use for music and movies, it is definitely worth its asking price and the only software i have no regrets paying for.


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## imeem

I'm using wasapi with Jriver, for some reason i get no audio from chrome even tho i stopped and closed the program. I have to open the same webpage in IE in order to get sound. I'm on iwndows 8.1 btw.


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## jarrett

I believe that's because youtube is a different sample rate from most of your music (44.1khz)


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## fiske

imeem said:


> I'm using wasapi with Jriver, for some reason i get no audio from chrome even tho i stopped and closed the program. I have to open the same webpage in IE in order to get sound. I'm on iwndows 8.1 btw.


 

 From Jriver wiki concerning Wasapi, ASIO etc.
 http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes
  
 There are some things to be aware of when using hardware direct communication:

During audio playback, the soundcard will be locked. You will not be able to play sounds from a web browser or other program while audio is playing.
  
 Must be something with Chrome. ??


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## jarrett

I just answered that it's two different sample rates


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## imeem

fiske said:


> From Jriver wiki concerning Wasapi, ASIO etc.
> http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes
> 
> There are some things to be aware of when using hardware direct communication:
> ...


 
 I specifically remember this did not happen with foosbar w/ wasapi. Tho i'm going to try again to confirm this,
  
 EDIT: with foosbar+ wasapi, i had to close the program in order to get sound from youtube. with jriver + wasapi, it only works sometimes and when it does work, it takes longer than foosbar to get audio back from youtube. I tried with different browser (Comodo Dragon) and it's the samething so i think it's something to do with the OS or Jriver. 
  


jarrett said:


> I just answered that it's two different sample rates


 
 if this was the case, then why does youtube work in IE and not in chrome?


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## preproman

Matt @ J.River had a really bad accident a few weeks back.  He's doing better now according to the J. River message boards.  My prayers go out to him and his family in this trying time.  Here's to his speedy recovery.
  
 This will likely slow down to the J.river improvments.  The team was moving really fast with Matt at the lead.  Now all we can do is wait and wish Matt all the best.


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## magiccabbage

Does anyone know if Jriver can play an APE file?


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## Chodi

magiccabbage said:


> Does anyone know if Jriver can play an APE file?


 
 Yes it can.


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## fiske

magiccabbage said:


> Does anyone know if Jriver can play an APE file?


 

*Matt Ashland* who is their Chief Technology Officer, was the creator of the Monkey's Audio (APE) lossless audio format.
 So I would assume they will support the format


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## goodvibes

one and a half said:


> The best feature of 19 is DSP *PCM2DSD*. You need at least an i5 to do the calcs necessary plus have a DSD128 DAC.
> 
> I never heard Redbook better, and this is on a very, very humble DSD DAC, Korg DS-DAC-10. For DSF files, a lot more detail. The Korg and the MPD-3 both use an ASIO compatible driver on Win 8.1.
> 
> Cannot go back to WASAPI or any other PCM direct listening anymore, I'm hooked on DSD!


 
 LOL. Converting on the fly is now better than native?


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## magiccabbage

fiske said:


> *Matt Ashland* who is their Chief Technology Officer, was the creator of the Monkey's Audio (APE) lossless audio format.
> So I would assume they will support the format


 
 ha ha, good answer.


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## goodvibes

JRiver are very much about anything bit perfect sounding the same so they sell their features and platform which is great. 
 I personally don't agree and think players do sound different. Theirs is quite good. I slightly prefer XBMC/wasapi on my PC (may vary) and also like Jplay which JRiver advises against. I don't use a PC as my listening player but just went through these comparisons for curiosities sake on my new w7 laptop with something recorded and mastered by an associate.
 I5-3.3ghz, 8gb RAM, SSD. In the past I would use an ASIO JET based 1394 interface SPdif to a top DAC if I really needed to hear something. Wavelab as player.


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## leeperry

goodvibes said:


> Jplay which JRiver advises against.


 
  
 got link please?


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## Sherwood

leeperry said:


> got link please?


 
  
 Easily found through google.  First hit on "Jriver Jplay"
  
 http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html


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## leeperry

thanks, lol a scam and a hoax no less...bon appétit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 apparently DAPHILE is the new big thing FWIR, many jplay users migrated.


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## cute

Does JRiver MC use Hyperstream with Kernel Streaming?


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## bmichels

Thanks to JRiver I may have found my ultimate Audio DAP solution:  Panasonic FZ-M1 + JRiver + Chord HUGO !  
  
  
 the FZ-M1 is a rugged *7" Tablet with 256 Gb on board + MicroSD, USB 3 & USB 3 & Windows 8.1 pro 64 bits:  384 Gb total !*
  
  
 Compared to the usual DAP solutions, this will allow to use some fun plug-in like Isone Pro or to watch iTune HD or, more important, to stream Audio from Qobuz 
  
  

  
 but... since I am totaly newbes to JRiver, can you tell me if for Audio, it is as practical as iTune ? with complete *playlist management* and *Cover-Art *browsing ?


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## bmichels

BUT BUT BUT.... Most of my collection is  ALAC  and I read JRIVER do not threat ALAC Well !  is it correct ?  What other Windows player can be recommended that "like" ALAC ?


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## jriver

bmichels said:


> BUT BUT BUT.... Most of my collection is  ALAC  and I read JRIVER do not threat ALAC Well !  is it correct ?  What other Windows player can be recommended that "like" ALAC ?


 

 JRiver Media Center will play ALAC fine.


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## bmichels

jriver said:


> JRiver Media Center will play ALAC fine.


 
  
 good to hear this because I read on this thread :
  
_"The ALAC files are going to be a problem. You can get J River to play ALAC files, but J River will not write to ALAC tags. ...__By default J River will play ALAC files through QuickTime. QuickTime bypasses the J River audio engine and all of the goodness and benefits it has...._ "
  
  
--> have thing changed by now ?
  
  
Also, is there a version of *JrIVER specific for  WindowsTablet* ?  I tried using Jriver with my finger.... not so good without the mouse !
  
  
by the way, For my HUGO, I found another source "less exotic" than the Panasonic 7" tablet: 
  
*SURFACE PRO 2  + JRiver * (w. *512 Gb internal memory !* )  
   
 see here a thread about using a Surface PRO as music server 
  
what do you think ?


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## bmichels

I read somewhere here :" ...I loaded _*jRiver Media center using WASAPI with exclusive access to the Bifrost DAC...*_.*Going back to the Sound properties in Control Panel, I selected the default format to use 24bit, 96000 Hz when running in shared mode*" 





 
  
 can't understand a word !!
  
what are:   WASAPI ?  exclusive accès ? shared mode ?
  
*--> why the guy isn't JUST loading  jRiver, connect a USB DAC/AMP,  and listen to his music ?? *



* *


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## bmichels

anyway...*I believe that we improve the SQ of JRiver even further by following those*
  
*Windows Recommended Audio Playback Software setup using JRiver V19 & JPLAY5.1*
  
*...even though jRiver do nOT want us to use JPLAY   *


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## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *bmichels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> why the guy isn't JUST loading  jRiver, connect a USB DAC/AMP,  and listen to his music ?


 

 as in PNP? you mad bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 be very careful with magical thinking "audio optimization" tutorials, there are often great advices in there but they are usually drown into a lot of counter-productive tweaks.


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## imeem

When i check under Audio Path, it says that its outputting at 32 bit. AFAIK, my dac (fiio e17) supports 24 bit at the highest. I only notice this when im using optical instead of USB. Also i sometimes get random popups from Jriver asking me to download real player, How do i stop this? I only have .mp3, .flac, .m4a, and .wv


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## Chodi

imeem said:


> When i check under Audio Path, it says that its outputting at 32 bit. AFAIK, my dac (fiio e17) supports 24 bit at the highest. I only notice this when im using optical instead of USB. Also i sometimes get random popups from Jriver asking me to download real player, How do i stop this? I only have .mp3, .flac, .m4a, and .wv


 
 Probably it is just ignoring the extra bits. I get the same thing with my Hiface 2 if I select asio. When I select another output driver I can select 24 bit output which is correct for my device. I use Kernal Streaming and it works fine for me set at 24bit. I would suggest you try changing your output selection and specifying 24bit.


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## imeem

chodi said:


> Probably it is just ignoring the extra bits. I get the same thing with my Hiface 2 if I select asio. When I select another output driver I can select 24 bit output which is correct for my device. I use Kernal Streaming and it works fine for me set at 24bit. I would suggest you try changing your output selection and specifying 24bit.


 
 seems like 24 bit in a 32 bit package is the only one that fits my hardware. Choosing 24 bit outputs static noises. thanks.


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## Chodi

imeem said:


> do i choose 24 bit or 24 bit in a 32 big package?


 
 The settings may be different within JRiver depending on your specific driver. What I mean is that your driver choices may not be the exact same as mine depending on your dac. I would suggest if you are using a dac or any interface that is limited to 24bits you select that as your option within JRiver output settings.The only reason you would choose a 32bit package is if  you were connecting to a 32 bit device.
  
 If you have any further problem you might try listing your equipment chain here so we can give more specific advice.


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## Rob49

Hello guys,
  
 Can you help a novice, please ! ? I purchased jriver yesterday. ( after a free trial, some months ago. ) I had previously ripped all my cd's to flac 44.1, and during the free trial period I converted a couple of albums to dsd...or I should say dsf ?
 I had forgotten about these two converted albums, when I had noticed them in my Sony media go library. I transferred them to my Sony F886 Hi Res Walkman, and was pleasantly surprised that they were reading 192/24.
 The only problem is, there is a loudish clicking noise at the end of every song, ( beginning of. ) I purchased jriver in the hope to rectify this, but adding my F886 to jriver & converting to dsd / dsf, doesn't appear to work, i.e. conversion / playback 192/24 ??
 Could anyone advise please ? Should it be possible for conversion & plackback of 192/24 via jriver ? ( regards Walkman's ) ? If I could get rid of the one second click, I'd be happy !! ( Audio wise, sounds excellent !! )


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## Chodi

rob49 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Can you help a novice, please ! ? I purchased jriver yesterday. ( after a free trial, some months ago. ) I had previously ripped all my cd's to flac 44.1, and during the free trial period I converted a couple of albums to dsd...or I should say dsf ?
> I had forgotten about these two converted albums, when I had noticed them in my Sony media go library. I transferred them to my Sony F886 Hi Res Walkman, and was pleasantly surprised that they were reading 192/24.
> ...


 
 JRiver does not convert to native dsd files it uses dsd over dop/pcm and depending on your selection during encoding 24/192 playback is normal. There are some selections in the tools/options menu you can try which select silence for track change but that click you here is probably the player switching in and out of dsd mode. You might want to check on the JRiver forum as I recall seeing many posts about this.


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## Rob49

chodi said:


> but that click you here is probably the player switching in and out of dsd mode.


 
 Thank you so much for your reply. If the above is the case, I'm assuming it's not possible to remove ? I'll do as you suggest, and also see if anyone has any feedback on the forum. ( which I haven't got round to joining yet ! )


----------



## imeem

chodi said:


> The settings may be different within JRiver depending on your specific driver. What I mean is that your driver choices may not be the exact same as mine depending on your dac. I would suggest if you are using a dac or any interface that is limited to 24bits you select that as your option within JRiver output settings.The only reason you would choose a 32bit package is if  you were connecting to a 32 bit device.
> 
> If you have any further problem you might try listing your equipment chain here so we can give more specific advice.


 
 my DAC is Fiio e17. When i select 24 bit, the sound turns into static. However, in foosbar, 24 bit works fine. Since selecting 24 bit (in a 32 bit package) works, what's the difference?


----------



## Chodi

imeem said:


> my DAC is Fiio e17. When i select 24 bit, the sound turns into static. However, in foosbar, 24 bit works fine. Since selecting 24 bit (in a 32 bit package) works, what's the difference?


 
 Are you using some dsp to oversample with your computer? In JRiver you can select that in dsp output. In Foobar it is most commonly done with sox plugin. Your device is limited to accepting oversampling rates depending on your choice of cable connection. I think for any further help on this you would have to post for someone who owns the same portable device. Your device is limited to 24 bit and depending on your connection may be limited to 24/96khz. If the dac receives a signal it can't lock you will get static or silence.


----------



## imeem

chodi said:


> Are you using some dsp to oversample with your computer? In JRiver you can select that in dsp output. In Foobar it is most commonly done with sox plugin. Your device is limited to accepting oversampling rates depending on your choice of cable connection. I think for any further help on this you would have to post for someone who owns the same portable device. Your device is limited to 24 bit and depending on your connection may be limited to 24/96khz. If the dac receives a signal it can't lock you will get static or silence.


 
 i'm not oversampling anything. I'm using optical so 24/192. Still doesn't explain why 24 bit dones't work in Jriver. BTW i'm using wasapi


----------



## Chodi

imeem said:


> i'm not oversampling anything. I'm using optical so 24/192. Still doesn't explain why 24 bit dones't work in Jriver


 
 As I said, you are going to need help form someone who owns the same device.


----------



## supra28

I haven't purchased JRiver because the EQ is very handicapped compared to foobar. Are there plugins to extend Jriver's basic EQ functionality?


----------



## Chodi

supra28 said:


> I haven't purchased JRiver because the EQ is very handicapped compared to foobar. Are there plugins to extend Jriver's basic EQ functionality?


 
 Vst plugins work just fine in JRiver. I find they actually work and sound better than they do in foobar. If you are looking for eq here is a site with some excellent eq:
  
 http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
  
 When I use eq in JRiver I use their CS12M. It is very good and very free. Just point JRiver to your vst plugins and it works.The 64 bit processing seems to work better with vst plugins than does foobar. At least that's been my experience.In JRiver you just go into DSP studio and choose manage plugins. Then select your vst plugin and you're done,


----------



## Spiral Out

supra28 said:


> I haven't purchased JRiver because the EQ is very handicapped compared to foobar. Are there plugins to extend Jriver's basic EQ functionality?


 
 Check out EasyQ. It's pretty easy to use and gives a nice graphical representation of the changes you are making:
  
 http://www.rs-met.com/freebies.html


----------



## supra28

Thank you. Will try both


----------



## Roseval

imeem said:


> my DAC is Fiio e17. When i select 24 bit, the sound turns into static. However, in foosbar, 24 bit works fine. Since selecting 24 bit (in a 32 bit package) works, what's the difference?


 
 You are using WASAPI.
 This is a bit transparent protocol.
 If you tell the media player to output 24 bits, it will send exactly 24 bits to the audio device
  
 You are using Toslink=SPDIF over optical
 The SPDIF standard requires a 32 bit word for each channel.
  
 Hence if you send 24 where 32 is required you get static.
  
 BTW: the Toslink standard says 24/96 kHz max.
 In practice the hardware might perform better


----------



## imeem

roseval said:


> You are using WASAPI.
> This is a bit transparent protocol.
> If you tell the media player to output 24 bits, it will send exactly 24 bits to the audio device
> 
> ...


 
 so would it be best to select 24 bit (in a 32 bit package) or just select 32 bit?


----------



## Roseval

Your best bet is "automatic"
 Should adapt the bit depth to the audio device used.


----------



## imeem

then it's 32 bit. Because when i choose automatic, it chooses 32 bit.


----------



## Kiats

I am hoping that someone here would have had come across this situation: I have a DAC that only plays up to DSD64. I have some files which are DSD 128. How do I play these files in JMC 19? What settings do I need to set? 

Any pointers would be much appreciated.


----------



## Kiats

kiats said:


> I am hoping that someone here would have had come across this situation: I have a DAC that only plays up to DSD64. I have some files which are DSD 128. How do I play these files in JMC 19? What settings do I need to set?
> 
> Any pointers would be much appreciated.




So that this may benefit anyone later facing this issue,'the solution is to:
1. Disable bitstreaming &
2. Under DSP studio, upsample everything to dsd 64.

Simple.


----------



## imeem

Ok i just found out something: On my setup, jriver + wasapi via optical sounds different than foosbar + wasapi via optical (both is set to output at 32 bit, -20 dB, no DSP). It is very apparent in Lorde's Team when the bass hits @ around 26 seconds. On the jriver setup, the bass is deeper/more impactful.  However, if I use usb on jriver and foosbar, both sounds exactly the same to me. On my other songs, the difference is alot less, but the still sounds a bit different to me. 
  
 Any1 have ideas what is going on?


----------



## Chodi

imeem said:


> Ok i just found out something: On my setup, jriver + wasapi via optical sounds different than foosbar + wasapi via optical (both is set to output at 32 bit, -20 dB, no DSP). It is very apparent in Lorde's Team when the bass hits @ around 26 seconds. On the jriver setup, the bass is deeper/more impactful.  However, if I use usb on jriver and foosbar, both sounds exactly the same to me. On my other songs, the difference is alot less, but the still sounds a bit different to me.
> 
> Any1 have ideas what is going on?


 
 If I understand you correctly you are using the digital volume control in both set at -20db. Jriver and foobar handle volume control differently. When you go past -18db you are getting into an area where there may be some signal loss. More so on Foobar than Jriver. If you are using the digital volume control for as much as -20db I suggest that is your difference. At less than -10db you probably could not tell any difference.


----------



## imeem

chodi said:


> If I understand you correctly you are using the digital volume control in both set at -20db. Jriver and foobar handle volume control differently. When you go past -18db you are getting into an area where there may be some signal loss. More so on Foobar than Jriver. If you are using the digital volume control for as much as -20db I suggest that is your difference. At less than -10db you probably could not tell any difference.


 
 Yes im controlling the volume on the software. However, even if i make foosbar+wasapi+optical louder than jriver+wasapi+optical, the jriver setup's bass still sounds better. I still don't understand how foosbar+wasapi+usb sounds the same as jriver+wasapi+usb, yet switching over to optical makes jriver sound better than foosbar.


----------



## Chodi

imeem said:


> Yes im controlling the volume on the software. However, even if i make foosbar+wasapi+optical louder than jriver+wasapi+optical, the jriver setup's bass still sounds better. I still don't understand how foosbar+wasapi+usb sounds the same as jriver+wasapi+usb, yet switching over to optical makes jriver sound better than foosbar.


 
 As I implied before, when you take a lossless signal and make it losey through the use of the volume control your optical output is dealing with that differently than your usb connection. Jriver has the ability to use more digital volume attenuation than foobar before changing a lossless signal to losey. At minus 20db you have likely done just that with foobar. The difference is just more obvious to you over optical. Try your experiment with both set at 0db and see if you get the same results.
  
 I am assuming you are using wasapi event with both programs? If not, and you are using basic wasapi then you are also going through the Windows mixer or perhaps you have that set correctly on one program and not the other?


----------



## imeem

chodi said:


> As I implied before, when you take a lossless signal and make it losey through the use of the volume control your optical output is dealing with that differently than your usb connection. Jriver has the ability to use more digital volume attenuation than foobar before changing a lossless signal to losey. At minus 20db you have likely done just that with foobar. The difference is just more obvious to you over optical. Try your experiment with both set at 0db and see if you get the same results.
> 
> I am assuming you are using wasapi event with both programs? If not, and you are using basic wasapi then you are also going through the Windows mixer or perhaps you have that set correctly on one program and not the other?


 
 yes i'm using wasapi event on both. K i tried 0 db on both,  both program sound the same now.


----------



## Roseval

Might be a matter the way volume control is implemented.
 In case of Toslink it is probably the internal volume control of JRiver/Foobar.
 In case of USB both probably use the volume control of the USB audio device, hence sound the same.
  
 BTW: in JRiver you can click on speaker icon left of the slider and choose between Internal, Application, System or Disable


----------



## AladdinSane

What's the effect of choosing one over the other (Internal, Application, System or Disable). I think I understand disable.


----------



## Chodi

aladdinsane said:


> What's the effect of choosing one over the other (Internal, Application, System or Disable). I think I understand disable.


 
 http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume


----------



## AladdinSane

Grazie.


----------



## thedon1989

defqon said:


> I like the Jriver due it's great support and convenience. Unfortunately I don't have golden ears to pick up apart any differences in sound quality between foobar and JRiver so both are good players, just one is more customizable and takes bit of time, one is pretty much configured properly for you. Though the usability part of foobar is inferior to Jriver to great levels.


 

 I beg to differ, jriver has the worst support you can ever wish for. In fact that is not entirely true jriver has no support as in zero, zilch, nada, no, none. For anyone considering it, I wouldnt recommend that software. The software itself is great but trust me when you need support, you need support especially for that software; if it aint there the software is worth nothing to you then.


----------



## Chodi

thedon1989 said:


> I beg to differ, jriver has the worst support you can ever wish for. In fact that is not entirely true jriver has no support as in zero, zilch, nada, no, none. For anyone considering it, I wouldnt recommend that software. The software itself is great but trust me when you need support, you need support especially for that software; if it aint there the software is worth nothing to you then.


 
 I would be curious to know more about your support problem with Jriver. They have a very active forum and one of the designers often answers posts directly. A search of their forum will usually turn up information on any subject problem. If you post your issue here you will probably get help.


----------



## Roseval

If one defines support as contacting a company directly, JRiver has no support.
 If it is about getting your issues solved, the forum is very responsive.
 Beside JRiver staff there are a lot of very knowledgeable users out there.


----------



## Sherwood

I've never needed anything that the forum didn't have.  I've asked a handful of questions there, and other users have answered them.  Had they not, I'm confident that Jim or one of the developers would have stepped in to help out.  They've done it for lots of folks in the past.


----------



## Buddhahacker

thedon1989 said:


> I beg to differ, jriver has the worst support you can ever wish for. In fact that is not entirely true jriver has no support as in zero, zilch, nada, no, none. For anyone considering it, I wouldnt recommend that software. The software itself is great but trust me when you need support, you need support especially for that software; if it aint there the software is worth nothing to you then.


 
 Not their support/business model.  You are getting a function rich product at a very attractive price.  A direct support model would likely double the initial license cost along with having an ongoing maintenance/support charge.  Some companies with the direct support model get around the ongoing charge by charging for each dot release.  I as well as many of the other customers of jriver would rather pay half and occasionally access the forums should I have an issue.   I would access the forums regardless of a support need just to learn more about the product.


----------



## ncaudiophile

chodi said:


> In theory ASIO, KS and WASAPI  event are the same. They are all going to output bit perfect data and bypass the Windows mixer. In reality there could be a difference on specific hardware in the way it reacts to the driver. Kernal Streaming is the most difficult to get right since Windows was never designed for that but in theory if they all work on your computer they should all sound the same. I can hear slight differences between these on my system but it is so slight it might be placebo.
> 
> Finally, I was not aware that JRiver folks were claiming any sonic benefit to their version 19 over 18 or 17. There are feature benefits but I would like to see a reference to where they say there are sonic benefits?


I hear little diff between ASIO & WASAPI. But KS does not work for me. Using CAPS Topanga. Big fan of Jriver.


----------



## Roseval

> Finally, I was not aware that JRiver folks were claiming any sonic benefit to their version 19 over 18 or 17


 
 They never do.
 In fact the owner (Jim Hillegass) detests audiophile talk


----------



## thedon1989

chodi said:


> I would be curious to know more about your support problem with Jriver. They have a very active forum and one of the designers often answers posts directly. A search of their forum will usually turn up information on any subject problem. If you post your issue here you will probably get help.


 

 Well I have emails crash dump logs to an email address given by one of the lads and havent heard anything for a week now I think. On the forum I have been given pointers by one of the lads which I appreciate and have been going through them. But the process is too much of trial and error stuff. I am luck I know a thing or two about IT but I have no doubt if someone who is just a regular pc user gets the kind of crashes I have been having, that will be jriver out of the window altogether because they will have no clue what to do- that I have no doubt. You reference to "active forum and one of the designers often answers posts directly.." mad me laugh, very misleading but well tried.


----------



## thedon1989

buddhahacker said:


> Not their support/business model.  You are getting a function rich product at a very attractive price.  A direct support model would likely double the initial license cost along with having an ongoing maintenance/support charge.  Some companies with the direct support model get around the ongoing charge by charging for each dot release.  I as well as many of the other customers of jriver would rather pay half and occasionally access the forums should I have an issue.   I would access the forums regardless of a support need just to learn more about the product.


 
  
 I have no doubt jriver is a fantastic program, feature rich and when it works well its fantastic. But for regular folks when it doesnt work you need support. As a customer I would be happy to pay the going rate for a program that works well and is well supported. So I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I have no doubt the things I have been doing to sort out the problem in my case, not many regular folks will be able to do. I am nearly there with sorting out the problem but it wasnt due help from the forum I am afraid. But thats not because people on the forum havent tried to help I have to say that. Most of the suggestions have been far off the mark. But I do agree with you on one thing you do learn a thing or two by visiting the forum; one of the lads pointed me in the direction of a computer torture test - a very useful tool for new computer builds.


----------



## Sherwood

thedon1989 said:


> You reference to "active forum and one of the designers often answers posts directly.." mad me laugh, very misleading but well tried.


 
  
 I just went over to interact.  The latest four posts are all from today, and they're all from Jim Hillegass or Matt Ashland (lead designer).  I would call that active, and with good participation.  It is unfortunate that your issue has not been addressed, and I'm sure that, like all companies, JRiver could improve their customer service, but most people who use the program wouldn't consider themselves to be technically astute.  Technically astute folks, who are often younger and less willing to spend money on software, opt for Foobar2000.  
  
 Perhaps there is a market for a piece of playback software with the level of support you're describing.  You say you would be willing to pay for it -- how much would it cost, in your view?


----------



## Chodi

thedon1989 said:


> Well I have emails crash dump logs to an email address given by one of the lads and havent heard anything for a week now I think. On the forum I have been given pointers by one of the lads which I appreciate and have been going through them. But the process is too much of trial and error stuff. I am luck I know a thing or two about IT but I have no doubt if someone who is just a regular pc user gets the kind of crashes I have been having, that will be jriver out of the window altogether because they will have no clue what to do- that I have no doubt. You reference to "active forum and one of the designers often answers posts directly.." mad me laugh, very misleading but well tried.


 
 Perhaps if you stated in some detail exactly what problem you are having you might find a solution here.There are many Jriver users on this forum that would be happy to share.


----------



## thedon1989

If you are right that the majority of users are not technically astute, then I feel for them should they have an issue with jriver. But in fairness, I have used the program for nearly two years without any issues. Its just when issues arise, you need to solve them quickly. In fact, when you factor in time you spend trying to resolve an issue when it arises, I would argue that your previous reference to paying less and avoid the premium for support doesnt really hold water as time spent solving and troubleshooting an issue probably far outweighs what one might pay for support in the price of software. The software company like jriver can use economies of scale to keep that premium to a minimum.


----------



## TYATYA

I agree Jriver is a king of paid player. 
I try in the past old version, and I forgot. I use foobar and vlc.
But since I learn dsd file, I know Jriver realllly good ver19


----------



## Sherwood

I have a workflow question for JRMC users here.  Right now when I add new music, I first open the files in JRMC, then I highlight them and select "Rename, Move & Copy Files" (to get them sorted into my music directory properly), then I hit "import" from the right-clock menu.  That gets them named properly and integrated into my library.  How do you all add files?


----------



## Roseval

When importing new files there are a couple of considerations.
 How to find them in your library?
 Downloads often comes with booklets and cover art or to put it more technically PDF, JPG, TXT etc.
 How to keep them together?
  
 My work flow is to put all new files in a subdir of C:\USERS\Vincent\Work
 I configure auto import to 

 watch this folder

 import all kind of file types

  
 I have a view New.
 In rules for file display it point to C:\USERS\Vincent\Work
  
 After tagging, listening, etc I use the library tool rename/move/copy to transfer them to their final destination.


----------



## imeem

what's the difference between doing room correction on jriver and doing it on your a/v receiver?


----------



## argentum

I like the purist approach. All the effects are turned off and output is WASAPI, no need for  these software "enhancements" , let the hardware do its job.


----------



## Kiats

argentum said:


> I like the purist approach. All the effects are turned off and output is WASAPI, no need for  these software "enhancements" , let the hardware do its job.




+1


----------



## Sherwood

JRiver's enhancements are truly excellent, though.
  
 I've normalized relative gain on my tracks with R128, and now I don't have to turn the amp up and down between songs.  The full dynamic range is preserved, but it adjusts the overall output level on a track-by-track basis.  Very cool.
  
 I've also followed a very useful guide here on Head-Fi on EQ'ing headphones based on equal loudness response using a sine sweep and pink noise.  It's intended to help compensate for your particular hearing, and the effects are really tremendous.  
  
 I can turn all the processing off with the push of a button, but I prefer to listen to a calibrated, gain-matched system.  It's like wearing a tailored suit instead of a great suit off the rack.


----------



## rgs9200m

Has anyone ever seen incorrect meta-data (the album name) on a commercial CD?
 This happened to me with a Time Life CD when I loaded it with Jriver. 
 It conflicted with a correctly named album, but was smart enough to put it in a sub-folder, so I can use it as a playlist I name myself.


----------



## alphabetagaga

anyone know how to sync/use/import itunes playlists into jriver? is there a feature within jriver that keeps a playlist imported from itunes in sync?


----------



## rnadell

Jriver 20 is now being offered prior to release. Does anyone have any thoughts?
 Thanks


----------



## Chodi

rnadell said:


> Jriver 20 is now being offered prior to release. Does anyone have any thoughts?
> Thanks


 
 I think their constant release trend is more a matter financial matter than a true upgrade. This may be the one release that proves me wrong, but in the past they have had an upgrade once or twice a month with only very minor changes. Still, it's a great program.


----------



## groovyd

i bought MC19 for Mac and decided to pay for the intro upgrade price to MC20 but it is kinda strange continually paying for software especially when they do not list what the new version will bring with it.  for example there is chatter about it supporting cd burning as a goal but really does anyone still use cds?  i surely don't.  i would much rather they fix the repeats in the play doctor feature and the volume leveling which does not also allow adaptive gain to be enabled as well. volume leveling alone drops the volume considerably requiring my amp to be turned up around 30% higher for the same output which introduces higher gain/ higher noise of the amp, lower snr of the source.  ok lets assume that isn't a problem (iTunes doesn't do this even while volume leveling and outputs a much hotter signal) the issue then occurs when i watch a web video through a browser and boom the volume now knocks me out.  It is pretty jarring.
  
 i do like the headphone crossfeed dsp option though but it does not seem very noticeable such as the crossfeed on my ol' HeadRoom amp did.  Would like to integrate some nicer external dsp effects with hotkey access to changing the settings between different headphones or speakers.


----------



## jarrett

Is there anything jriver can do to improve sound quality in version 20 and on? I know the developers have a certain stance that bitperfect is bitperfect


----------



## cute

jarrett said:


> Is there anything jriver can do to improve sound quality in version 20 and on? I know the developers have a certain stance that bitperfect is bitperfect


 
  
 Jplay is better at that!


----------



## jarrett

I don't believe in using software like jplay


----------



## Sherwood

Buying a new version of JRiver is not like buying other software.  You pay on a subscription model, and your payment allows you access to the next year's worth of updates.  Your current version won't stop working if you don't upgrade, but it also won't benefit from new features.  The catch is, we don't know what those features will be yet.
  
 You can view every improvement, fix, and new feature added during the last year here, and it's frankly a pretty decent list.  Big ones for me were real time DSD output conversion, R128 volume analysis, DSD format conversion, and XBMC-format .nfo tag recognition.  I use at least one of those things daily, and I'm looking forward to seeing what new features they come up with this year.


----------



## groovyd

sherwood said:


> Buying a new version of JRiver is not like buying other software.  You pay on a subscription model, and your payment allows you access to the next year's worth of updates.  Your current version won't stop working if you don't upgrade, but it also won't benefit from new features.  The catch is, we don't know what those features will be yet.
> 
> You can view every improvement, fix, and new feature added during the last year here, and it's frankly a pretty decent list.  Big ones for me were real time DSD output conversion, R128 volume analysis, DSD format conversion, and XBMC-format .nfo tag recognition.  I use at least one of those things daily, and I'm looking forward to seeing what new features they come up with this year.


 

 Agreed but I just hope they don't consider CD burning their big deal for the year.  Of all things they need to improve to get excited about CD burning seem a bit old school to me. Improve the UI to look like a Mac App and fix the dozen or so glaring other issues first before adding more features.


----------



## groovyd

One new feature I would love to see which I feel would be their 'killer' feature would be if you have Shazam running in the tray and it finds the song you are playing to be significantly different then what the music file tags say it is to ask if you would like to update the music tags with whatever Shazam is saying is the truth.  I have a huge library that is not tagged properly even after running good tools like Jaikoz on it and Shazam always seems to get it right down to even the recording sessions with guest singers etc.  Would be awesome for this pair of apps to eventually fix all my music file tags.


----------



## Chodi

jarrett said:


> Is there anything jriver can do to improve sound quality in version 20 and on? I know the developers have a certain stance that bitperfect is bitperfect


 
 You are right. At this point it is not about improved sound quality it is all about added features. If you don't need the added features you don't need to pay for more upgrades.


----------



## Sherwood

groovyd said:


> Would be awesome for this pair of apps to eventually fix all my music file tags.


 
  
 That is kind of a novel idea.  I'm incredibly uptight about tags, and every file in my collection is tagged properly, but I still think using shazam for tagging would be interesting.
  
 I think it would be more effective as a batch tool, though as I don't know a lot of users who run shazam in the tray.  You're the first person I've ever heard of running Shazam on their own music, to be frank 
  
 Personally I'm very happy with the windows UI, though I've not used the mac version and can't speak to its look.  I'd like to see a way to import music more easily.  As it is, I can run the "import" tool on my tracks, but then I need to go through and request that they be renamed and moved after the fact.  A good duplicate detector would also be excellent -- most of the ones out there now don't seem to understand what someone with a large music collection considers a dupe.


----------



## groovyd

sherwood said:


> That is kind of a novel idea.  I'm incredibly uptight about tags, and every file in my collection is tagged properly, but I still think using shazam for tagging would be interesting.
> 
> I think it would be more effective as a batch tool, though as I don't know a lot of users who run shazam in the tray.  You're the first person I've ever heard of running Shazam on their own music, to be frank
> 
> Personally I'm very happy with the windows UI, though I've not used the mac version and can't speak to its look.  I'd like to see a way to import music more easily.  As it is, I can run the "import" tool on my tracks, but then I need to go through and request that they be renamed and moved after the fact.  A good duplicate detector would also be excellent -- most of the ones out there now don't seem to understand what someone with a large music collection considers a dupe.


 
 Yes Shazam just released a tray app for Mac and it is great.  I enjoy it because it suppliments JRiver by adding good growler notification to the song being played.  But while using it ofcourse I noticed how many songs were mis-categorized by Jaikoz on my 30k library...  It would be pretty simple to just do a song name compare with whatever Shazam indicates for the song playing.  If they are significantly different, say by some text diff percentage then pop up a box asking if the user wants to fix the song and just do it.  I have learned to trust Shazam now and would probably just select 'yes to all'.


----------



## Sherwood

Very cool.  I think that's a great idea.


----------



## rgs9200m

I have a bunch of K2-mastered discs (these are not SACDs). Jriver 1.9 seems unable to analyze them and just gives me a blue circle on windows and then just hangs and dies eventually.
 Any comments? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sherwood

K2 is the 24 bit mastering on DVD or Blu-ray discs, right?  
  
 EDIT:  Looked into it.  It appears it is mastered in high res, but brought back down to redbook for pressing onto CDs.  Seems that, in terms of data, a K2HD disc is the same as any other CD.  Can you play the disc in a regular CD player (not a dvd or bluray player)?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, the K2 discs have always played fine in my other cd players. Thanks.


----------



## Kiats

rgs9200m said:


> Yep, the K2 discs have always played fine in my other cd players. Thanks.




I have had digital files ripped from my K2HD discs play on JRiver with no problem at all. Just wondering if the issue is with the CD tray of the computer?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I'm think that. I'm going to get an external CD/DVD drive to try it out. I've had some issues with the internal one before reading software. Thanks.


----------



## Kiats

No worries. Hope it works for you.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks to you too. I will report back on the results. I looked in the Jriver forums and didn't find anything either. Best to you.


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## rgs9200m

Does anyone use the equalizer in Jriver? I find myself using it to slightly reduce the highs ( -2.5 db at 6000 hz) on my Senn HD800s and a similar amount at higher frequencies on my Grado GS1000i.
 I don't think I detect any distortion. Any comments? Thanks.


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## gevorg

rgs9200m said:


> Does anyone use the equalizer in Jriver? I find myself using it to slightly reduce the highs ( -2.5 db at 6000 hz) on my Senn HD800s and a similar amount at higher frequencies on my Grado GS1000i.
> I don't think I detect any distortion. Any comments? Thanks.




With JRiver and Foobar, I use FabFilter Pro-Q to tame down the HD800 highs on some albums. No signs of any distortions or any degradation of sound quality. EQ in the digital domain works perfectly, if used right. Haven't spend much time comparing with built-in/basic EQ plugins, I tend to prefer going with pro-audio level tools for peace of mind. On the other side, reducing the highs by just 2.5dB should be a very straightforward EQ task, so try it out with the built-in EQ and see how it works out for you.


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## rgs9200m

Hey thanks for the info and the chart. (I was just using the Jriver parametric EQ so far, tuning by ear. Funny how the chart shows the drop at about the same frequency that sounded right to me.)


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## rgs9200m

kiats said:


> I have had digital files ripped from my K2HD discs play on JRiver with no problem at all. Just wondering if the issue is with the CD tray of the computer?


 
 OK, I got an LG BE14 external usb3.0 cd-rom drive (a blu-ray thing) and now the K2 discs are read and ripped just fine. Thanks for the advice!


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## Kiats

rgs9200m said:


> OK, I got an LG BE14 external usb3.0 cd-rom drive (a blu-ray thing) and now the K2 discs are read and ripped just fine. Thanks for the advice!




Excellent! Glad to hear it worked out fine.


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## rgs9200m

I also want to report that the nice aspects of the K2-mastered sound carries over to the ripped version, especially the ease and lack of raspiness in the highs.


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## korzena

It's often recommended to Disable Volume to get the best sound-quality from a software player like j.river.
 I did it, but as some songs play much louder than the others and I don't want to reach for the amp volume knob too often to adjust the volume, can I just use Volume Levelling option (also called Replay Gain) and still get the best sound-quality. Or using Volume Levelling destroys the whole idea of using Disabled Volume option?


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## groovyd

their version of volume leveling, while it works to neutralize all volume levels more or less consistently it is way too heavy handed basically cutting the output level back to about 50% across the board.  This does defeat half the purpose of keeping the output level on max as you have essentially reduced 16 bits to that of a 15 bit music file.  Also since the gain is lower you must compensate your end amplifier by doubling it's gain which has the net effect of doubling the noise floor and shifting the entire gain curve into a higher typically non-linear region.  They really need a Volume Leveling output volume slider to adjust the target volume to rather then picking their arbitrary ultra-conservative value.


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## Roseval

By design Volume Leveling is adjusting the volume digital.
 However volume leveling is in general about a couple of dBs hence it is not very likely you will hear the difference.
 Modest digital volume control e.g. up to -10 dB is in general considered not audible.


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## groovyd

when i enable their volume leveling i must compensate by almost doubling the volume control on my amp for the same output.  using itunes volume leveling i only need to up the volume about 10%.  take it for what it is worth.
  
 to me the biggest disadvantage of volume leveling especially in the jriver case (because it is so extreme) is that if i switch to watching a youtube video or answer a skype call or watch the news all the sudden my speakers and ears get blown out.  always shocks the h out of me and i have to frantically scramble for a volume control to turn it down and back up again returning to my music.
  
 it is just to much in jriver and they really need to include a volume leveling output volume slider on the effect so i can choose how conservative it is.


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## Roseval

I know they switches from traditional volume leveling (Replay Gain) to a more modern standard (R128)
 Maybe you audio simply needs to be reanalyzed for R128 because what you are describing is really excessive.
  
 JRiver recommends to use Volume Leveling together with Adaptive Volume, wouldn't be surprised if enabling Adaptive Volume brings everything back to normal


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## korzena

groovyd said:


> when i enable their volume leveling i must compensate by almost doubling the volume control on my amp for the same output.  using itunes volume leveling i only need to up the volume about 10%.  take it for what it is worth.
> 
> to me the biggest disadvantage of volume leveling especially in the jriver case (because it is so extreme) is that if i switch to watching a youtube video or answer a skype call or watch the news all the sudden my speakers and ears get blown out.  always shocks the h out of me and i have to frantically scramble for a volume control to turn it down and back up again returning to my music.
> 
> it is just to much in jriver and they really need to include a volume leveling output volume slider on the effect so i can choose how conservative it is.


 
  
  


roseval said:


> I know they switches from traditional volume leveling (Replay Gain) to a more modern standard (R128)
> Maybe you audio simply needs to be reanalyzed for R128 because what you are describing is really excessive.
> 
> JRiver recommends to use Volume Leveling together with Adaptive Volume, wouldn't be surprised if enabling Adaptive Volume brings everything back to normal


 
 Thanks for the answers.
  
 I wonder if using Volume Leveling together with Adaptive Volume is worth it or I'd better go back to Internal Volume and switch off Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume? Which solution will be better for the sound quality?
  
 I would also like to ask if up-sampling can improve sound quality or there is no clear benefit here.


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## Sound Eq

can some one please list top 10 rated plugins for equalizer vst pluggins


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## Chodi

sound eq said:


> can some one please list top 10 rated plugins for equalizer vst pluggins


 
 Here is a link that should help:  http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html


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## groovyd

roseval said:


> I know they switches from traditional volume leveling (Replay Gain) to a more modern standard (R128)
> Maybe you audio simply needs to be reanalyzed for R128 because what you are describing is really excessive.
> 
> JRiver recommends to use Volume Leveling together with Adaptive Volume, wouldn't be surprised if enabling Adaptive Volume brings everything back to normal


 

 I did have them all re-evaluated by JRiver itself.  They actually recommend NOT to use those two settings together since they do not work properly on a playlist or even Playing Now.  Apparently Adaptive Volume doesn't know how to lerp gain slowly over the impending songs in the list to prove a smooth experience.  Adaptive Volume is only useful for playing whole single albums they told me.  I know this because when I did enable both I was futsing with the volume control even more then without either.


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## groovyd

korzena said:


> Thanks for the answers.
> 
> I wonder if using Volume Leveling together with Adaptive Volume is worth it or I'd better go back to Internal Volume and switch off Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume? Which solution will be better for the sound quality?
> 
> I would also like to ask if up-sampling can improve sound quality or there is no clear benefit here.


 

 IMHO I would love that they just give an option to use Replay Gain instead of this new ultra-conservative standard.


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## korzena

groovyd said:


> I did have them all re-evaluated by JRiver itself.  They actually recommend NOT to use those two settings together since they do not work properly on a playlist or even Playing Now.  Apparently Adaptive Volume doesn't know how to lerp gain slowly over the impending songs in the list to prove a smooth experience.  Adaptive Volume is only useful for playing whole single albums they told me.  I know this because when I did enable both I was futsing with the volume control even more then without either.


 
 In my JRiver (ver. 19), in DSP Studio window, in Volume Levelling tab, there is information saying: "The overall volume of the playlist may be reduced. Enable 'Adaptive volume'...to compensate for this." It seems they actually recommend using these two options together.
  
 My question is:
*Does it make sense to use Volume Levelling when Disabled Volume is in use?* Or is it against the whole idea of "Disabled Volume" as Volume levelling option works in the similar way to internal volume?


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## groovyd

Yes that is what it says in the menu, but if you go to their forum they recommend you do not use them together for smart playlists or play now.


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## korzena

groovyd said:


> Yes that is what it says in the menu, but if you go to their forum they recommend you do not use them together for smart playlists or play now.


 
 For the last two days I have been using them both and haven't encountered any problems.
  
 What's your take on j.river upsampling? Can it improve sound quality in any way?


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## groovyd

upsampling can never improve sound quality, only reduce it.


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## korzena

groovyd said:


> upsampling can never improve sound quality, only reduce it.


 
 I've read that upsampling can indirectly improve quality of sound with some kinds of DACs.


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## Fabithierry

if you do any kind of Processing (Volume, volume leveling, resampler and etc) you must always use the "Internal Volume". This is advantageous because you get a 64bit volume and also because it allows Media Center to have as much signal headroom as possible, which is especially important if you do processing


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## Fabithierry

korzena said:


> It's often recommended to Disable Volume to get the best sound-quality from a software player like j.river.
> I did it, but as some songs play much louder than the others and I don't want to reach for the amp volume knob too often to adjust the volume, can I just use Volume Levelling option (also called Replay Gain) and still get the best sound-quality. Or using Volume Levelling destroys the whole idea of using Disabled Volume option?


 
 Disable the Internal Volume only if you have a Hardware Volume.


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## korzena

fabithierry said:


> if you do any kind of Processing (Volume, volume leveling, resampler and etc) you must always use the "Internal Volume". This is advantageous because you get a 64bit volume and also because it allows Media Center to have as much signal headroom as possible, which is especially important if you do processing


 
 I don't quite understand. 
 In j.river in DSP studio, Volume Levelling , there is an information (when you click "Options" link) saying: "Process independently of internal volume. Undo internal volume so the effect receives full-range signal." 
 How to understand this?


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## korzena

fabithierry said:


> Disable the Internal Volume only if you have a Hardware Volume.


 
 I did disabled Internal Volume (as I have my hardware volume knob on my amp) and I ask if using Volume Levelling at the same time makes any sense ?


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## Fabithierry

korzena said:


> I did disabled Internal Volume (as I have my hardware volume knob on my amp) and I ask if using Volume Levelling at the same time makes any sense ?


 
 If you want a "Bit-Perfect" Output, you must to disable or set the Internal Volume at 100%, but if you do any kind of processing in Jriver (Volume leveling included) you must to use the Internal Volume for the best sound quality and precision.


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## Fabithierry

korzena said:


> I don't quite understand.
> In j.river in DSP studio, Volume Levelling , there is an information (when you click "Options" link) saying: "Process independently of internal volume. Undo internal volume so the effect receives full-range signal."
> How to understand this?


 
 that option does'nt matter. Is just for analizers. leave it off


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## korzena

fabithierry said:


> If you want a "Bit-Perfect" Output, you must to disable or set the Internal Volume at 100%, but if you do any kind of processing in Jriver (Volume leveling included) you must to use the Internal Volume for the best sound quality and precision.


 
 Thanks for the explanation! I believe I understand it more now.
  
 By the way, is setting internal volume to 100% exactly the same thing as Disabling volume?


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## Fabithierry

korzena said:


> Thanks for the explanation! I believe I understand it more now.
> 
> By the way, is setting internal volume to 100% exactly the same thing as Disabling volume?


 
 great! 
  
 yep, is the same thing


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## Sound Eq

i was wondering which is the best encoder in jriver software the ape, flac, aac, and others
  
 i listen mainly to flac


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## jarrett

AAC is a lossy codec, and FLAC is preferred over APE because it is in active development and is faster encoding and decoding


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## Sound Eq

jarrett said:


> AAC is a lossy codec, and FLAC is preferred over APE because it is in active development and is faster encoding and decoding


 

 so when i choose flac decoder and then i want to play an ape music file shall i then change it to ape decoder or is it ok to keep it flac


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## cronsell

Is it strange that I hear a difference between FLAC and WAV files in JRIVER?  I prefer WAV every time.


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## prot

cronsell said:


> Is it strange that I hear a difference between FLAC and WAV files in JRIVER?  I prefer WAV every time.



yes. very. and it should not happen. 
If you really want to investigate I would try testing with foobar, wasapi output and the abx plugin. If you can still hear clear diffs something is off in your setup. Maybe you have too many bckground tasks...or an old pc...or a million other possible issues.


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## Roseval

Your best bet is enabling memory playback. All the processing (reading, decoding) is done before playback starts.
 Effectively eliminates these differences.


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## cronsell

roseval said:


> Your best bet is enabling memory playback. All the processing (reading, decoding) is done before playback starts.
> Effectively eliminates these differences.




Thanks for the advice...I'll look into it!


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## groovyd

Yeah I paid for the 20 this year and got for it video that I never use and a few bugs 19 never had.  Wish they would at least tell us what we will get in the next version at the time of purchase.


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## Roseval

sound eq said:


> so when i choose flac decoder and then i want to play an ape music file shall i then change it to ape decoder or is it ok to keep it flac


 

 You can't choose a decoder.
 If you play FLAC you need the FLAC decoder
 If you play APE you need the APE decoder.
 You can convert APE to FLAC: Library Tools > Convert format
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/Advanced/Conversion.htm


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## yang2910

Well. I see so much positive reviews on this Jriver here. Decided to trial it. I am currently using a MBP Retina 13'. However, there is one problem I noticed while i scrolling through my library. I view my Library in Pane view. While scrolling through it, I felt a tad lag of smoothness like how I scroll up and down in iTunes. Its kinda annoy me. Is this problem only happens on me or its Jriver? Even I untick the Retina mode, still can't attain the smoothness of scrolling


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## groovyd

yeah, everyone says the same... to be honest Apple apps always scroll a lot smoother then any third party apps.  JRiver uses its own cross platform UI engine so it will never be optimized for Mac in the same way say iTunes is.


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## yang2910

It would be definitely a sure buy for me if this problem can be solved. Scrolling through my large library would be a problem with it. Is there any other Media Player for Mac which can manage library of flac bautifully like Jriver does? Most of my files are not in ALAC thats why using audivarnna or iTunes would need me to convert my whole library to ALAC.


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## Sound Eq

Hi everyone, I was wondering what a great great vst plugin that offers a great parametric eq, i tried to install easy q but i get an error message, which i downloaded as dll file


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