# Free power cord (too good to be true)?



## AVgurly

Hello,

 I'm a total Hi-Fi newb.

 My boyfriend and I are putting together a entertainment system for his birthday (we came into some money this year) and poking around I noticed that this company is giving away $305 powercords for free. I'm leery of something that sounds too good to be true. Is this a real manufacturer?

www.virtualdynamics.ca

 thanks all!


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## alienman

...'cause all newbies look for $305 power cords.


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## vcoheda

virtual dynamics make some of the best cables out there, but it doesn't say how to get one. i bet there is a catch. it says you have an "opportunity" to get one. what does that mean. unless i am missing something, there is absolutely no information about what you have to do to get a free power cord.

 send them an email.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alienman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...'cause all newbies look for $305 power cords. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you think the poster is from VD. maybe. either way, if it really is free, i would be interested in one. we'll see. i'm sure someone will contact them and get the story.


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## AVgurly

i sent them an email, but I wonder if they work on weekends...

 no worries


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## vcoheda

.


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## nick20

I called them. Indeed, this is real.

 They are not sure how it will be done, but the representative I spoke with said they will likely do 10 free cables a day, for 10 days. 

 All you have to do is pay shipping.




 In fact, I called them twice.. I couldn't believe this. I will have this page on refresh for sure for the next few days. I could really use the money.. (paying for it, and selling it or trading for new headphones) 

 My VH Audio cable suits me fine...


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## vcoheda

uh. i don't think that is the purpose of the offer.


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_uh. i don't think that is the purpose of the offer._

 


 Huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is just like winning something for free.. you're in no way obligated to keep it.

 I would just much rather use a new pair of headphones than a new powercable....


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## happyangryhappy

This would be fantastic if it is real. I have always wanted to try one of their cords...


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *happyangryhappy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This would be fantastic if it is real. I have always wanted to try one of their cords..._

 


 Why would it not be real? This is a leading cable company in the industry, advertising a fake offer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Please, continue to think it's fake.. because I can sure use 100 free $300 cables..


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## RedLeader

Yea, nick20... I really disagree with that. They're not just giving you money, that's not the idea. No company would survive that way, giving their products to people who would normally be buying them. The idea here is to get the word out. If I get something for free, I'll do my honest best to review it and talk about it, positively or negatively. I think you would owe them at LEAST that much.


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is just like winning something for free.. you're in no way obligated to keep it.

 I would just much rather use a new pair of headphones than a new powercable...._

 

Wow, I can't believe what I just read. Nick20 that is just wrong, they are giving the cables to those who actually would like to test their products, not as an opportunity for some random to take advantage of them. Thank you for the heads-up though, I'll remember to never do business with you in the future.

 Back on topic, this is a great offer by VD. Their products have always received great reviews and I think this could really open people up to this secluded end of the market. About the offer, how do you sign up? My 2000IVR really benefits from good power so this would be a great opportunity for me to try out the higher end power products and see if it is really worth the price upgrade from the gear I'm using now.


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedLeader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, nick20... I really disagree with that. They're not just giving you money, that's not the idea. No company would survive that way, giving their products to people who would normally be buying them. The idea here is to get the word out. If I get something for free, I'll do my honest best to review it and talk about it, positively or negatively. I think you would owe them at LEAST that much._

 


 I see your point, however I have different priorities at this moment, that is all. I cannot see why you there is a problem with what I would be doing. Ultimately, it's my choice. I may end up keeping it, if I can "win" one, but more likely I'll be inclined to sell it. 

 Hey, it's not my choice to "give away" 100 $300 power cables either. I think loaning them to professional reviewers is the way to go, if they really NEED all the publicity/hype to sell their products. Don't offer 100 of their powercables to "joe blow"... am I making any sense? Usually I don't.. LOL 

 If I can get one, great, if not, at least I tried. Costs me nothing..


 Good luck..


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the heads-up though, I'll remember to never do business with you in the future._

 


 Glad you don't OWN a business either..


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back on topic, this is a great offer by VD. Their products have always received great reviews and I think this could really open people up to this secluded end of the market. About the offer, how do you sign up? My 2000IVR really benefits from good power so this would be a great opportunity for me to try out the higher end power products and see if it is really worth the price upgrade from the gear I'm using now._

 



 I refuse to answer you, even though I know the answer..


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
Thank you for the heads-up though, I'll remember to never do business with you in the future.

 


 Glad you don't OWN a business either.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I'm glad you don't have a conscience. And yes, I do have my own business, I have had one for the past two years.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I refuse to answer you, even though I know the answer.._

 

Yes, because it is so hard for me to email them and ask, especially seeing as how I already have an account with them. What are you like, eight years old? Anyways, I'm done talking, you're obviously not the kind of person normally found here on Head-Fi.


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## nick20

skyline889;3370396 said:
			
		

> nick20;3370386 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you don't have a conscience. And yes, I do have my own business, I have had one for the past two years.



 Yes, because it is so hard for me to email them and ask, especially seeing as how I already have an account with them. What are you like, eight years old? Anyways, I'm done. You're obviously not the kind of person normally found here on Head-Fi._

 


 I already posted the answer if you wouldn't mind looking up a few posts.. I actually called them, they have a 800 number on the bottom of their website. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Nope, not many Nick20's running around here.. I am the only one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A lost soul, I am.. I hope I can mesh with thousands of members, but I guess I can't. "You can't please 'em all" is what I am commonly told in my industry.. However, I try hard.. obviously we have two different view points here, and it's sad you came right out and refused business with me because we don't see "eye-to-eye". You don't even know me..


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## Patrick82

I will pass and let the skeptics try this. Someone should send one to bigshot and the others!


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## radz

I signed up.

 I just wonder if they post to Australia.


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## vcoheda

i signed up as well. see what happens. this is pretty cool.


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## mrarroyo

Well I just registered and decided to call the toll free number. The service rep took down my information and said that the cable will be sent out on Monday.

 Time will tell, but it is exciting!


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## devin_mm

So you just sign up where it says register and they send you a cable?

 Hey these guys are only 120km (ish) from me I know where I should be buying cables from.

 Also I will *never* sell this cable, if a time comes where I want to get rid of it I will give it away on head-fi.

 Edit: I called them and like mrarroyo said they took my info and said they would make sure I had one shipped out monday, the guy who answered seemed very surprised I lived in Edmonton. When I called them they said the first 100 to register will have cables sent out Monday.


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## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will pass and let the skeptics try this. Someone should send one to bigshot and the others!_

 

Why not? Registered.

 I wonder what the cost to manufacture these are.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also I will *never* sell this cable, if a time comes where I want to get rid of it I will give it away on head-fi._

 

yes. it would be great if enough head-fiers got power cords to just keep them in circulation on head-fi, so everyone can experience them. unless the power cord (assuming i get one) is vastly superior to my current ones, which i feel are of good quality, then i plan to pass it along to another head-fier; and hopefully he (or she) will do the same.

 i think it is safe to say that the first post was by someone at VD (the promotion just started yesterday), but when you are promoting the give away of products (not cheap ones i might add), i think that's okay - at least, it's fine by me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 go virtual dynamics!!!


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## Pibborando

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder what the cost to manufacture these are._

 

That's what I was wondering. They're probably only losing maybe $15 a cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In any case, I signed up and will find out for myself.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just registered and decided to call the toll free number. The service rep took down my information and said that the cable will be sent out on Monday.

 Time will tell, but it is exciting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wait what, do you have to call for them to send you a cable? I registered with the site (which it looks like all you can do). 

 Im a cable skeptic but i would honestly review a $300 power cord if it was given to me.


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## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait what, do you have to call for them to send you a cable? I registered with the site (which it looks like all you can do)._

 

You do not I just called to confirm.


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## gotchaforce

Alright good because i didnt want to call and sound like an ass.

 "HEY uhh yeah was not trying to sound incredibly greedy or anything but im calling to get my FREE cable...calling doesnt help??... well.. bye then"


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## devin_mm

I have no experiance with high end power cable but if this does make a difference with the DAC1 I bought I'll have to buy another one (or maybe a higher up model) for the beta22 I'm building.


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## Ichinichi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just registered and decided to call the toll free number. The service rep took down my information and said that the cable will be sent out on Monday.

 Time will tell, but it is exciting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

But they're not open today?


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## Trippytiger

Well, I registered. I hope I get one - I'm definitely curious to hear if power cords _actually_ have an effect on the sound for myself.


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## DSlayerZX

wait... let me get this straight, do we just register and they will send the cable to use for the top 10 people?

 interested to see how it will sound compare to the Signal cable Magic power.


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## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSlayerZX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wait... let me get this straight, do we just register and they will send the cable to use for the top 10 people?_

 

It's the first 100 people, and yes you just register.


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## Abbadon

Wow. That's extremely generous of them. Thanks to the OP for posting this. I'm skeptical as to whether a power cable worth more than my headphones would make an noticable difference, but that another topic for another day.

 Since this thread has 500 views at the time of posting, I wonder how many people have actually registered for this.


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## infinitesymphony

I agree with vcoheda; if Head-Fiers receive the cables, it would be nice to send them around as demo models, at least for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Ah, what the heck... I registered.


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## jinp6301

lets see if anyone gets one of these!


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## Sovkiller

Hey I signed in, let's see if I win it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With my luck I doubt it...but anyway if I do, let's see if it makes any difference here as so many claim...that will be the end of the skepticism for me...


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## Trippytiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey these guys are only 120km (ish) from me I know where I should be buying cables from._

 

Who would have thought that Barrhead, of all places, would be home to a high-end cable company?


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## colonelkernel8

Well I signed up a while ago when the link was still there, so I am assuming I am one of the 100, which would be really cool. I didn't put my address in the account initially, but I have now, I hope they weren't looking for that right away. Do you think we will receive a confirmation e-mail if we get one?


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## infinitesymphony

I think that the people who called before will get priority. It seemed like the representatives were telling them definitely that they would be receiving cables.


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## Scifiguy

Wow, this is really cool. I think I registered as well, but am not sure. Did the rest of you just setup an account from the cart link?

 Even if I'm too late it is great to see an audio company do something like this - maybe more will follow suit


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## LawnGnome

i registered a few hours of it being open.

 Hopefully I will get one, then I can do some blind tests for myself.


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## RedLeader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ and it's sad you came right out and refused business with me because we don't see "eye-to-eye". You don't even know me.._

 

I don't think anyone has to "know" you to read what your opinion of this is and to refuse to do any business with you in the future. I feel exactly the same way.


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ichinichi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But they're not open today? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

When I dialed the toll freee number it was answered. The person took my contact information although I had already entered it. I look forward to this!


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## yage

I registered yesterday morning. In the words of Michael Scott: the early worm gets... the worm.


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## markl

Virtual Dynamics makes some of the best cables around, their interconnects are outstanding, too. This is a fantastic opportunity to get a great cord for nada.

 The original Power 3 was the first aftermarket cord I bought years and years ago (since upgraded numerous times obviously). Back then when VD was just starting out, they had a special intro offer for the cord for $75; at the time, one of the least expensive aftermarket cords. Skeptical, but curious enough to try it for $75, I bit, I mean why not? Now look! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 24 cords later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I keep coming back to the better VD cables. I've got a Nite 3.0 power cord on my source, and the Master 3.0 interconnects.

 I would think if a skeptic were to want to test a power cord, the Power 3 is a about as good a way to do it in a moderately priced cord. But be advised, they are extremely stiff and heavy, and may levitate some light-weight components off the rack. You also need at least an extra foot over a normal cord to get it to bend to fit into your space. You'll also need enough room between your component and the wall to achieve a 90 degre bend.


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## didwlgh

I doubt that many of you guys will keep the cable....because most of you guys will climb up the latter through their tradeup program! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would have loved the offers too, but I got these....






 Look how enormous they are....makes the Valhallas sing like a little girl.

 Never looked back since.


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## mojo

Wouldn't it just be easier to steal a power lead from your mum's kettle?


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedLeader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think anyone has to "know" you to read what your opinion of this is and to refuse to do any business with you in the future. I feel exactly the same way._

 

X3, it's a window into your character nick20, and you probably didn't even realize you opened the blinds.

 I'm pretty sure I registered in time (before post #23), and will most certainly review the item here on Head-Fi.


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## Salt Peanuts

It would be nice if I got a free cable, but I'm not if I registered early enough. I guess I'll just wait and see.


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## smithy

Wow... this company sells a $49,509 speaker cable (Not including tax)! That cable better make my speakers, which cost 1/200th the price, pretty darn good! (I think i'd rather buy a beamer though...)

 didwlgh... is that how much you paid for the cable in the picture? In Canadian dollars?


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## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *didwlgh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt that many of you guys will keep the cable....because most of you guys will climb up the latter through their tradeup program! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess that answers the question of "what do you think their cost is for this promotion?" Pretty close to zero!


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## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smithy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_didwlgh... is that how much you paid for the cable in the picture? In Canadian dollars?_

 

The funny thing is now I'd rather they used USD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smithy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_didwlgh... is that how much you paid for the cable in the picture? In Canadian dollars?_

 

The USD is pretty much equal to the canadian dollar there is no difference

 and it looks like he paid probably $20,000 for those speaker cables.
https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/conte...econdary_id=44


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## Chu

So I was thinking about what I would actually do with these cables since if they're as stiff as Mark says there is no way I can actually use them. My current power cable goes through an "S" pattern requiring a 90 degree turn about a foot from the amp and two more 45 degree turns within about a foot and a half. The alternative would require a single 180 degree turn with a radius of about 1 foot, which sounds sketchy.

 It got me thinking though, what happens when you chain power cords? For example, what happens if I just buy a cheap home depot low gauge extension cord ment for heavy machinery, and then plugged the power cord into that? It's similar to what's going on behind the walls already, would I expect the same sonic improvements?

 What would happen if you daisy chain power cords together using high grade adaptors? Does one "override" another? What sort of rules would be possible to predict the final sound?


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I was thinking about what I would actually do with these cables since if they're as stiff as Mark says there is no way I can actually use them. My current power cable goes through an "S" pattern requiring a 90 degree turn about a foot from the amp and two more 45 degree turns within about a foot and a half. The alternative would require a single 180 degree turn with a radius of about 1 foot, which sounds sketchy.

 It got me thinking though, what happens when you chain power cords? For example, what happens if I just buy a cheap home depot low gauge extension cord ment for heavy machinery, and then plugged the power cord into that? It's similar to what's going on behind the walls already, would I expect the same sonic improvements?

 What would happen if you daisy chain power cords together using high grade adaptors? Does one "override" another? What sort of rules would be possible to predict the final sound?_

 


 I have asked myself the same questions. Do not know what to tell you.


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## TheMarchingMule

I just registered (aka logged in).

 Guess we all have to wait and see if we're in or not? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, we could just call their toll-free number and ask if it's still on, huh?


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## OverlordXenu

Edit: Please delete.


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## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Virtual Dynamics = fraud._

 

OverlordXenu =


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OverlordXenu = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

how about =


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## Dual

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how about = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











_

 

More like =


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## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dual* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More like = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


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## Sovkiller

Guys no need of these obscene smilies....


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## Dual

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Companion Cube! awesome.


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## Khanate

Well I registered yesterday morning also...

 I hope I get one!!!


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## VicAjax

i signed up on saturday... hopefully not too late!

 i don't know whether i believe in power cords or not. i'm skeptical, but a chance to get one for free should settle it for me once and for all.

 near my stereo, i have one outlet on its own circuit (for the a/c) which is dead silent (what my amp is plugged into now), and i have one outlet that shares a circuit with all the appliances, so the hum is annoyingly present. i also have a cheapo Radio Shack surge protector... 

 so i'd be able to try out all those and make a pretty informed decision (for myself, of course) about whether PC's make a difference.


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## Vergency

If you were selected, it's $33 shipping to US, $28 to Canada, and it's case by case for international. Just a heads up for anyone who signed up.


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## devin_mm

I got my congratulations email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It sucks I have to pay $28 for shipping since it would cost less in petrol to go and pick it up.


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## vcoheda

nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i thought i signed up early too.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

I got one! I got one!


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## swt61

Yep, I received my confirmation as well. $33.00 S&H to the US, not a bad deal at all!


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## Trippytiger

Aww, nothing for me. Bummer.

 Congrats to all those who did get one, though!


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## Pibborando

Well, I didn't get an e-mail. To those who have, when did you sign up? I did at around 10AM on Saturday.


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## mrarroyo

Congratulations to those who received a confirmation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It appears I was late. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well.


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## AndyRx7

Hmmm... this is weird - when I spoke to VD on the phone, they took down my info and told me I'd be getting an email tonight, but I haven't. Damn!


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## penger

I got an email from Brad @ virtual dynamics today. Yessss I got one! In the email, they have apparently only selected 25 of 100 winners, so those of you who haven't got one still have a chance!


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## swt61

Yes mine said that too. Here's what my email said. I imagine most of you will also win one, you just might be in one of the next batches.


 "Congratulations. You are one of the first 25 of 100 winners of the 
 Power Three cables that we will be selecting. Your name was selected 
 randomly from a pool of new subscribers to the Virtual Dynamics website.

 Winners are expected to pay $33 for shipping and handling to the US 
 and $28 to Canada. International shipping rates will be quoted on a 
 case by case basis. All packages are shipped Xpresspost, which 
 should arrive within 10 days of the date of shipping.

 What we need from you:
 -Your Shipping Address
 -A method of payment (Paypal, VISA, MASTERCARD)
 or
 -Declining the offer

 Thank you from Virtual Dynamics"

 Good luck! I'll cross my fingers for all of you.


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## vcoheda

i was just happy to be nominated.


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## kikkomang

those cables must be damn heavy.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kikkomang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_those cables must be damn heavy._

 

Wait a minute! They're giving away a cable they sell for $305.00, and you're going to quibble about a $33.00 S&H charge?

 You know they still need to pay the employees that are packaging and shipping these cords, and I'm happy to pay the $33.00.


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## shellylh

Just got my email today! They seem to be doing a random drawing of names because I signed up pretty late.


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## DSlayerZX

grats to people that receive the e-mail. I guess I am just never lucky enough to win any drawing or lottery. @@


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my email today! They seem to be doing a random drawing of names because I signed up pretty late._

 

It is random.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSlayerZX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_grats to people that receive the e-mail. I guess I am just never lucky enough to win any drawing or lottery. @@_

 

It ain't over yet!


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## infinitesymphony

Sweet. Glad to hear that some Head-Fiers have gotten in thus far.

 I'm eager to hear all of the ensuing power discussion.


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## jinp6301

I WANT!


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## radz

I am a winner to.

 They are going to mail me to let me know how much postage to Australia is going to set me back.

 I hope its not to high but Brad sure made my day.


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## MonkeyMan

How do I sign up for this? I went to their website and couldn't figure out how, but I did create a user account and send them an e-mail...


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MonkeyMan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do I sign up for this? I went to their website and couldn't figure out how, but I did create a user account and send them an e-mail... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The contest is closed and the winners are in the process of receiving their notifications. So, it's over.


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## Khanate

I didn't win but grats to the winners!


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## philodox

Just to confirm, the 'winners' just registered on the site and got lucky? I registered today, just makeing sure there is nothing else I have to do to have a shot at one of these power cords. Thanks.


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## bundee1

If anyone doesnt like the cord and wants to recoup your shipping fee, pm me. I want to try something new with my amp.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone doesnt like the cord and wants to recoup your shipping fee, pm me. I want to try something new with my amp._

 

Ditto.

 I hope that the cables aren't so good that no one will want to send them around to us poor, upgraded-power-cable-less Head-Fiers.


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## colonelkernel8

I didnt get one, damn. No fair that the people that called automatically got one.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Has anyone gotten a shipping notice yet?


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## devin_mm

I sent my reply and told them I would pay with paypal, they have yet to respond.


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## radz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to confirm, the 'winners' just registered on the site and got lucky? I registered today, just makeing sure there is nothing else I have to do to have a shot at one of these power cords. Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats all I did but i got in within hours of it being announced.

 I'm still waiting for them to get back to me so I can make my paypal payment also.


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## steaxauce

I don't believe in power cords (yet, anyway), but I'm going to try to get one. If it's not for free I'll probably never try them out. They just seem ridiculous! I can't imagine how it would make an improvement, considering what's behind the wall. But I just bought a maxxed headroom desktop with the DPS, and my hou se wiring sucks, so I'll be looking into power conditioners. When I say my house wiring sucks, I mean it SUCKS! The house itself was built in 1895. I don't know when the wiring was installed, but I've found that it's very old and feeble. I connected a small lamp, my laptop charger and the Meier Corda Opera to the same plug in my room once, and the Opera cut out several times. It only draws 12W!

 So if I can get one of these, I'll be putting it between whatever power conditioner I buy and the DPS. The the conditioner will be on the end of a ~50ft extention cord. What do the believers say? Is this a decent configuration?


----------



## AndyRx7

Woohoo! Turns out I was one of the first 25, but my email address got mispelled - nothing a phone call couldn't fix! I just got an invoice from them for the shipping fees... Sweeet!! They're super nice people over there.


----------



## devin_mm

I am still waiting for a response about the fact that I wanted to pay with paypal.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to confirm, the 'winners' just registered on the site and got lucky? I registered today, just makeing sure there is nothing else I have to do to have a shot at one of these power cords. Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's correct. Oh yeah, Nanny nanny nah nah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still waiting for a response about the fact that I wanted to pay with paypal._

 

They will, I assume they're backed up. Here's my reply from Brad when I told him I'd like to use PayPal.

 "I've forwarded your response to the promotion department, they'll be 
 handling it from here.

 I hope your enjoy your power cord.

 -Brad"

 I'm sure they'll eventually contact us with instructions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steaxauce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't believe in power cords (yet, anyway), but I'm going to try to get one. If it's not for free I'll probably never try them out. They just seem ridiculous! I can't imagine how it would make an improvement, considering what's behind the wall. But I just bought a maxxed headroom desktop with the DPS, and my hou se wiring sucks, so I'll be looking into power conditioners. When I say my house wiring sucks, I mean it SUCKS! The house itself was built in 1895. I don't know when the wiring was installed, but I've found that it's very old and feeble. I connected a small lamp, my laptop charger and the Meier Corda Opera to the same plug in my room once, and the Opera cut out several times. It only draws 12W!

 So if I can get one of these, I'll be putting it between whatever power conditioner I buy and the DPS. The the conditioner will be on the end of a ~50ft extention cord. What do the believers say? Is this a decent configuration?_

 

The GrandEnigma power cord I bought from you quite a while back is fantastic! I notice a big difference on my amp. That is the main power cord that I'll compare this one to. Also warrior05 built me several power cords for a very good price, and they are a definite improvement over stock cords.


----------



## philodox

Damn, looks like I'm outta luck then. Oh well, enjoy guys.


----------



## devin_mm

I got my invoice, hopefully it gets here before the meet on Saturday.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, looks like I'm outta luck then. Oh well, enjoy guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem, just PayPal me shipping and you can have mine. Uhmm let's see, the shipping comes to $305.00 even. Imagine that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, after I compare this to my many other power cords I plan on sending it around for evaluations.


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndyRx7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woohoo! Turns out I was one of the first 25, but my email address got mispelled - nothing a phone call couldn't fix! I just got an invoice from them for the shipping fees... Sweeet!! They're super nice people over there._

 

How do you find this out if they had your email wrong?

*What is the email address theyre sending out notifications from??*

 im afraid comcast is blocking the email address because they do it with a lot of things without telling me!


----------



## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you find this out if they had your email wrong?

*What is the email address theyre sending out notifications from??*

 im afraid comcast is blocking the email address because they do it with a lot of things without telling me!_

 

I got my congrats email from brad@virtualdynamics.ca


----------



## 2deadeyes

lol...I didn't even realize that I got one. Brad just emailed stating that I have until tomorrow noon to respond. Shipping is $33 to US & $28 to Canada.


----------



## swt61

I asked them to send me a PayPal request for payment. They did along with an invoice and sales order.
 I'll post some impressions if it gets here before I leave town (Nov.2nd).


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2deadeyes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol...I didn't even realize that I got one. Brad just emailed stating that I have until tomorrow noon to respond. Shipping is $33 to US & $28 to Canada._

 

It's actually $33.00 Canadian, but that's not very different from $33.00 US these days.


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

I also got a confirmation. I forget exactly when I registered, but the wording of the email (I got verbatim the exact same message as swt61 posted earlier in this thread) suggested to me that they may do this in batches, and the sample size MAY not be closed. So, it can't hurt to go register; if they just use the group "people that registered since X date" for the following batches you might be eligible... though the size of the sampling would grow with each batch. I could also be completely wrong.

 It took them about a full day to get back with an invoice and paypal info, but made it to my inbox a couple hours ago. 

 I am looking forward to this


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's actually $33.00 Canadian, but that's not very different from $33.00 US these days._

 

I think the problem was grammatical imprecision; they were saying shipping TO the United States would be $33 CAD, while in Canada shipping was cheaper at only $28 CAD. So Canadian currency both ways, the difference being destination. I grant it could easily be interpreted the other way, but they didn't lie.

 Disengaging grammar fanatic mode now, apologies swt61 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## infinitesymphony

So, we have at least 11 people from Head-Fi who won a power cord, and there are probably more. That's a pretty good ratio.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverTrumpet999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the problem was grammatical imprecision; they were saying shipping TO the United States would be $33 CAD, while in Canada shipping was cheaper at only $28 CAD. So Canadian currency both ways, the difference being destination. I grant it could easily be interpreted the other way, but they didn't lie.

 Disengaging grammar fanatic mode now, apologies swt61 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._

 

LOL!


----------



## Dual

Is there anyone else in Australia that was lucky enough to be chosen for the "free" cable?

 The quote they gave me for shipping is $72.90 CAD. Not so "free" huh...


----------



## DSlayerZX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dual* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anyone else in Australia that was lucky enough to be chosen for the "free" cable?

 The quote they gave me for shipping is $72.90 CAD. Not so "free" huh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ew... that is an ugly shipping price. 
 Yes, it is not so free =_=

 I really wish I am in the list of the next 75 lucky people


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSlayerZX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ew... that is an ugly shipping price. 
 Yes, it is not so free =_=

 I really wish I am in the list of the next 75 lucky people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought that everyone had been contacted by now? If not, it means that either 100 is not the total number, or that nearly half (or more) of the recipients participated in this very thread.


----------



## DSlayerZX

wellll this is the email to one of the head fier

 "Congratulations. You are one of the first 25 of 100 winners of the
 Power Three cables that we will be selecting. Your name was selected
 randomly from a pool of new subscribers to the Virtual Dynamics website."

 So..... I guess is the first 25 people.. what interest me is that apparently the winner was selected not by the time of registration, but by random drawings


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

The original email (which swt61 has posted earlier in this thread) stated that as of a couple of days ago, only 25 winners had yet been selected. I think it is most probable that this is the only group as of yet, which means you are right infinitesymphony - nearly half of the recipients have posted here! A pretty good ratio indeed.

 Anybody still interested should register at their site, just in case the future drawings are not closed.


----------



## Tachikoma

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dual* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anyone else in Australia that was lucky enough to be chosen for the "free" cable?

 The quote they gave me for shipping is $72.90 CAD. Not so "free" huh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I never got a reply


----------



## radz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dual* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The quote they gave me for shipping is $72.90 CAD. Not so "free" huh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

$72.90 for me also.

 Still not to bad when Australian stores are selling them for $260 AUS but not really in the free ballpark any more.


----------



## jinp6301

no free power cable yet i guess


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *radz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$72.90 for me also.

 Still not to bad when Australian stores are selling them for $260 AUS but not really in the free ballpark any more._

 

let's just call it heavily discounted then.


----------



## LawnGnome

I registered within hours of the registration opening, and didn't get a thing.

 I was wanting to blind test it, but to hell to paying retail for it.


----------



## devin_mm

I'm really hoping I get tomorrow for the meet and all, and really how long should it take expresspost to ship something 120km 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Being as it only took 2 days to ship my DAC1 from Washington DC to here.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really hoping I get tomorrow for the meet and all, and really how long should it take expresspost to ship something 120km 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Being as it only took 2 days to ship my DAC1 from Washington DC to here._

 

Well I'm not sure about you, but I haven't gotten any confirmation that it's shipped yet. They said up to ten days, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Just curious: to all the head-fi'ers that got selected, when did you register? I registered Sunday night right before the giveaway started.


----------



## radz

I registered saturday afew hours after it started.

 I'd say between 2-8 hours after because I really have little idea what the time is in Canada.


----------



## AndyRx7

I registered Saturday morning around midnight, right as the promotion started. Luckily I was up doing homework - errrr, I mean, surfing head-fi - and saw this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Finally, procrastination pays off!! I always knew it would.


----------



## devin_mm

I registered Saturday around noon but I also called them.


----------



## vcoheda

i registered very early and also called but did not get one. so it seems like it was pretty random.


----------



## Superpredator

I registered sometime Sunday and didn't hear anything, so I'm assuming I got squat.


----------



## swt61

Saturday afternoon sometime, but they did say in one of my emails they chose winners randomly.


----------



## luckypictures

Add me onto the list of people that will take seconds from someone if they don't want it after using it, with fees, of course, and what have you, and whatnot, and so on, and so forth.


----------



## Khanate

Well I assume there will be second/third rounds if they only chose 25 people so far? I'm really looking forward to this as a building block for when I begin my home sound system next summer!


----------



## Culverin

so is this completely closed and a done deal?
 i think i missed out and wanted to give it a try, we're having our annual meet on the coming sunday...


----------



## devin_mm

Well my cable shipped today, too bad I don't get to play with it for at the most 10 days (maybe 7 I might leave early 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## AndyRx7

Mine shipped today too! It will be rather novel to have an expensive piece of hardware show up at my door, without feeling that slight tinge of guilt and foreboding at my incurable upgraditis...


----------



## markl

Howdy lucky VD cable recipients...

 I'm 100% confident you will hear a difference with this cable, even if you thought you were a "skeptic".

 I've heard almost every VD cord at every level-- allow me to predict in advance the differences you will hear in the approximate order you will perceive them...

 --Blacker background
 --A firmer, more solid sound
 --Firmer, more defined bass
 --Increased dynamics, better slam and heft
 --Increased sense of "air", yielding a bigger soundstage
 --Cleaner, more "pure" sound


----------



## vcoheda

what if we already use a non stock power cord. do you still predict any differences.


----------



## markl

Depends on what they are using. In general, those are the effects I'd predict from switching to a VD cable at that level.


----------



## gritzcolin

Looks like I missed out on this. I for one am quite skeptical on expensive non audio transferring cables, I understand the effects of speaker cables and interconnects but power? Isn't it only as clean as what is coming from your wall?


----------



## vcoheda

i have noticed differences with the few power cables i have used (as well as ICs), so i am firmly in the camp of there can be and is better.

 to me it is not even debatable that differences (positive differences) exist between stock cables and after market ones. the real question, i think, is at what point does diminishing returns set in to such a degree where - absent a huge budget - it just doesn't make much sense to continue up the chain.

 that's what i am interested in.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like I missed out on this. I for one am quite skeptical on expensive non audio transferring cables, I understand the effects of speaker cables and interconnects but power? Isn't it only as clean as what is coming from your wall?_

 

Yes. But even then, it doesn't even matter.

 If a computer, which is much more complicated and uses higher frequencies in its cables, is uneffected (unaffected?) by a $13,000 power cord (let alone "dirty" power), than why would a much simpler amplifier, DAC, CD player, or whatever be? It doesn't make sense.

 Not to mention PC's have been debunked though testing...


----------



## RedLeader

Wait... you're saying this cord WONT increase my framerate in crysis? Bah...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy lucky VD cable recipients...

 I'm 100% confident you will hear a difference with this cable, even if you thought you were a "skeptic".

 I've heard almost every VD cord at every level-- allow me to predict in advance the differences you will hear in the approximate order you will perceive them...

 --Blacker background
 --A firmer, more solid sound
 --Firmer, more defined bass
 --Increased dynamics, better slam and heft
 --Increased sense of "air", yielding a bigger soundstage
 --Cleaner, more "pure" sound_

 


 Thanks markl. Which of my units would you think the VD cable would have the most positive effect on...

 Twisted Perar Audio Opus DAC w/Zapfilter

 β22 4 channel balanced amp w/dual σ22's.

 PS Audio Lambda CD transport 


 I got my shipping notice today as well.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. But even then, it doesn't even matter.

 If a computer, which is much more complicated and uses higher frequencies in its cables, is uneffected (unaffected?) by a $13,000 power cord (let alone "dirty" power), than why would a much simpler amplifier, DAC, CD player, or whatever be? It doesn't make sense.

 Not to mention PC's have been debunked though testing..._

 

Why are you trolling this thread? It has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Get a life.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you trolling this thread? It has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Get a life._

 

What?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. But even then, it doesn't even matter.

 If a computer, which is much more complicated and uses higher frequencies in its cables, is uneffected (unaffected?) by a $13,000 power cord (let alone "dirty" power), than why would a much simpler amplifier, DAC, CD player, or whatever be? It doesn't make sense.

 Not to mention PC's have been debunked though testing..._

 

One person's opinion. And one that I don't share at all. I hear differences in all my after market power cords. Maybe your hearing just isn't as acute as others, but I'm sure you'll Pooh Pooh that theory, as that would mean you're the defective link in your system.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you trolling this thread? It has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Get a life._

 

And you young man have pics and impressions to be aquiring your time!


----------



## vcoheda

dude. he's never even listened to anything except an ipod + ear buds.

 he's a complete waste of time.


----------



## DSlayerZX

seriously..... please ignore his post and don't let this thread turn into another stupid cable debate

 but anyway, still no sign of second shipment T^T


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What?_

 

Something you didn't understand? Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And you young man have pics and impressions to be aquiring your time!_

 

Done pappy Steve. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 [Well, the pics anyways.]


----------



## penger

Just got my shipping notice today as well. Hope to see it soon.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One person's opinion. And one that I don't share at all. I hear differences in all my after market power cords. Maybe your hearing just isn't as acute as others, but I'm sure you'll Pooh Pooh that theory, as that would mean you're the defective link in your system._

 

Forget about the "audible difference" debate, if you are claiming after market power cords make a difference in transports that's a fairly easy claim to verify.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. But even then, it doesn't even matter.

 If a computer, which is much more complicated and uses higher frequencies in its cables, is uneffected (unaffected?) by a $13,000 power cord (let alone "dirty" power), than why would a much simpler amplifier, DAC, CD player, or whatever be? It doesn't make sense.

 Not to mention PC's have been debunked though testing..._

 

Well did they test with quality PSU's? Most computers have crap power supplies that merely do their job. Also perhaps the simpler circuitry is better benefited by such a power cable since the power in isnt being split and re distributed like a computer's power supply would. 

 You always want proof of the opposite camp but never seem to give your "scientific proof" other than saying oh man tests have been done. What school does your tests or is it some guy in his moms basement who cant actually afford the cables who says my sound is the best it will ever be. Until i see a test proving cables make no difference by MIT I will give nice cables the benefit of the doubt. 

 Another thing you can't possibly tell me $4.98 rca cables by Magnavox are better than $30 ones made by Dayton, build quality aside there is a difference in sound. Less distortion, richer bass I don't see how that isn't apparent. Only time these high end cables don't make a difference in sound or video quality is digital, and that is because of the absence of signal degradation over short distances. It is sending binary code and your source and decoder will be the weakest links in a digital chain. Only plus with those is build quality.


----------



## shellylh

Got my shipping notice tonight!


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well did they test with quality PSU's? Most computers have crap power supplies that merely do their job. Also perhaps the simpler circuitry is better benefited by such a power cable since the power in isnt being split and re distributed like a computer's power supply would._

 

You've got a real point there gritzcolin. The thing with computers is that they operate completely in the digital domain; all zeroes and ones. Which means that the "analog" squarewaves representing those bits can be really, REALLY crappy... since nothing between 1 and 0 is extracted, computers can get away with that. This is the reason why shoving an audio card into a PCI slot on the mobo is not a very good idea. 

 Now we move to high end (headphone or speaker) equipment. Aside from a source (or external DAC), everything is in the analog domain - now every last bit (pun unintended, I swear!) of interference matters, because the signal waveform is a superposition of ALL audio information at all frequencies. 

 So, I believe analog / power cables can and do make a difference, and that is why. It's for the same reason DIY-ers put their best components in the signal path.


 Back on topic: I got a notice of being in the first 25 last week, but didn't get a shipping notice earlier this evening like most seemed to... I hope I haven't been overlooked!


----------



## LawnGnome

Explain how 5 feet of "good" cables can change the power that is fed from miles of cheap dirty power.


----------



## DSlayerZX

seriously, shut up already, no one ask "does cable makes a difference, trolls please come in"
 you don't need to go around and ruin every single thread that is related to cables.

 but anyway, seems like VD changed their web site so the free cable offer is officially close.

 and people, please take some picture of those cable when it arrive, I want to see it



 I am sorry for the impolite comment, but recently events like this have occur too often, is getting really annoying


----------



## swt61

Yep, troll some other thread non believers.

 I'll be out of town when mine shows up, so someone else will have to snap a pic.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Shun the non-believers! Shun!


----------



## pageman99

Hey, I signed up right after the original post, but never heard anything! 

 Is there a secret handshake that I don't know?


----------



## DSlayerZX

according to the e-mails, the prize was selected randomly out of all the registered users.

 Some called and got a definite confirm that they will receive the cable, but that is a minority.

 so it all comes down to luck basically


----------



## vcoheda

i got one as well. just paid my $33 (canadian).


----------



## philodox

Damn, that's almost $35 USD!


----------



## DSlayerZX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i got one as well. just paid my $33 (canadian)._

 

wait, you just got a confirm e-mail?


----------



## vcoheda

yes. i got a congrats email last night. i accepted. this morning, i got an invoice. i paid. and just a few minutes ago, i received a shipping notice.

 can't wait for my $33 power cord.


----------



## DSlayerZX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes. i got a congrats email last night. i accepted. this morning, i got an invoice. i paid. and just a few minutes ago, i received a shipping notice.

 can't wait for my $33 power cord. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

man, I guess I did not got them again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but ... oh well, better luck on the next drawing then

 PS: please post some response after you got it


----------



## shellylh

On what component should one use the upgraded power cord to get the greatest (or most noticeable) improvement in sound quality: transport, DAC, or amp?


----------



## vcoheda

i'm going to try it with my amp first and then my CDP. i think my current power cords are of reasonable quality, so i am curious what - if any - improvements i will notice. but i think someone going from stock to the VD cord will see a noticeable gain in performance.


----------



## markl

In general, I would say, put your best power cord on your source/DAC, as it all flows downhill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's also possible that a particular cord has more synergy with a downstream component and can have a better impact there.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dude. he's never even listened to anything except an ipod + ear buds.

 he's a complete waste of time._

 

Nice job trolling. I actually had an iPod Mini a few years ago (gift), and was disgusted by its sound quality.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *My Sig* 
_Sources: Cowon iAudio X5, X-Fi Platinum (Coaxial Transport)
 Headphones: Shure E4C, EarPeace Tech LiveWire T1, AKG K240 Sextett

 Soon enough: Twisted Pear Opus DAC/M^3 Combo_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well did they test with quality PSU's? Most computers have crap power supplies that merely do their job. Also perhaps the simpler circuitry is better benefited by such a power cable since the power in isnt being split and re distributed like a computer's power supply would. 

 You always want proof of the opposite camp but never seem to give your "scientific proof" other than saying oh man tests have been done. What school does your tests or is it some guy in his moms basement who cant actually afford the cables who says my sound is the best it will ever be. Until i see a test proving cables make no difference by MIT I will give nice cables the benefit of the doubt. 

 Another thing you can't possibly tell me $4.98 rca cables by Magnavox are better than $30 ones made by Dayton, build quality aside there is a difference in sound. Less distortion, richer bass I don't see how that isn't apparent. Only time these high end cables don't make a difference in sound or video quality is digital, and that is because of the absence of signal degradation over short distances. It is sending binary code and your source and decoder will be the weakest links in a digital chain. Only plus with those is build quality._

 

I haven't seen a DBT involving computer PSU's, but I did PM you a DBT on power cables. And why am I not showing proof? Maybe because the burden of proof is on you, for suggesting something is happening with *no* scientific basis. Why would MIT waste their time with something so, trivial, and already debunked? Ok, so, what exactly are the Dayton RCA cables doing that the $1 no-name aren't? Besides build quality, of course.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverTrumpet999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You've got a real point there gritzcolin. The thing with computers is that they operate completely in the digital domain; all zeroes and ones. Which means that the "analog" squarewaves representing those bits can be really, REALLY crappy... since nothing between 1 and 0 is extracted, computers can get away with that. This is the reason why shoving an audio card into a PCI slot on the mobo is not a very good idea. 

 Now we move to high end (headphone or speaker) equipment. Aside from a source (or external DAC), everything is in the analog domain - now every last bit (pun unintended, I swear!) of interference matters, because the signal waveform is a superposition of ALL audio information at all frequencies. 

 So, I believe analog / power cables can and do make a difference, and that is why. It's for the same reason DIY-ers put their best components in the signal path.


 Back on topic: I got a notice of being in the first 25 last week, but didn't get a shipping notice earlier this evening like most seemed to... I hope I haven't been overlooked!_

 

Sure, computers have error reduction, but the fact stands: more data, and more complex data go through the "crappy" wires inside a "noisy" computer, and yet computers function fine. Solid-gold cables aren't going to make it function better.

 Amps, sources, and etc. are much simpler than computers, and they have less information at lower frequencies going through their cables. It's much harder to screw up the info being sent through them.


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so, what exactly are the Dayton RCA cables doing that the $1 no-name aren't? Besides build quality, of course._

 

Probably delivering the signal with less loss. Read the article, "What Wire Does With All Those Electrons."

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* 
_Sure, computers have error reduction, but the fact stands: more data, and more complex data go through the "crappy" wires inside a "noisy" computer, and yet computers function fine. Solid-gold cables aren't going to make it function better._

 

We're not talking about "functionality." Yes, almost any old audio cable will _work_, but that doesn't mean that they are all equivalent. Sort of like saying all cars are the same because they'll all transport you to work. Some "function" better than others.

 Let's save the inevitable debate about power cables for the ensuing review thread.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't seen a DBT involving computer PSU's, but I did PM you a DBT on power cables. And why am I not showing proof? Maybe because the burden of proof is on you, for suggesting something is happening with *no* scientific basis. Why would MIT waste their time with something so, trivial, and already debunked? Ok, so, what exactly are the Dayton RCA cables doing that the $1 no-name aren't? Besides build quality, of course._

 

Like I said in the PM the wires in the $30 Dayton cables will have a better quality standard more consistency in the metals which lead to better transfer of a signal. Plus there is also less chance for intereference with shielding they use. Best way to test it may not be with your ears, maybe do some experimenting with coaxial cable on your tv. Maybe my ears can lie but my eyes don't.

  Quote:


 Sure, computers have error reduction, but the fact stands: more data, and more complex data go through the "crappy" wires inside a "noisy" computer, and yet computers function fine. Solid-gold cables aren't going to make it function better.

 Amps, sources, and etc. are much simpler than computers, and they have less information at lower frequencies going through their cables. It's much harder to screw up the info being sent through them. 
 

Digital. 1's and 0's going through a cable don't experience interference unless there is a faulty wire somewhere. Also I have killed so many video cards due to power surges with cheap power supplies. I finally got a good power supply and it stopped, then I did the even smarter thing and bought a UPS which is irrelevant. This doesn't disprove you as much as explains why there were no found differences.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Our eyes are pretty fallible, too.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In general, I would say, put your best power cord on your source/DAC, as it all flows downhill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's also possible that a particular cord has more synergy with a downstream component and can have a better impact there._

 

This is what I was thinking too. That's where I'll start. I have plenty of power cords in the $100.00 neighborhood, I'm interested in seeing how this one holds up against them.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Our eyes are pretty fallible, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think an extra blizzard when Luke gets taken by the snow monster is a placebo effect


----------



## philodox

I thought we were going to just ignore him?


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought we were going to just ignore him? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What is it with non-believers and ignoring those that try to open their eyes? At least I'm not being burned at the stake.


----------



## 2deadeyes

I should be getting mine tomorrow & snap a few pics.


----------



## colonelkernel8

Apparently those who believe in power cables are a part of some tightly-knit group with beliefs founded on no scientific fact (in a hobby where science is key) who think that those with very justifiable skepticism are "non-believers".

 Someone please graph the exact output of a basic setup first with standard high quality power cord and one of these so-called "audiophile" cords. If the outputs match perfectly, then the debate is over, it doesn't get any more definitive than that. If an audiophile cable performs "differently" then you may have something. I'll be willing to accept it (and probably buy some cables myself) if this happens.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone please graph the exact output of a basic setup first with standard high quality power cord and one of these so-called "audiophile" cords. If the outputs match perfectly, then the debate is over, it doesn't get any more definitive than that. If an audiophile cable performs "differently" then you may have something. I'll be willing to accept it (and probably buy some cables myself) if this happens._

 

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for?







 I don't know either way about the cable debate, but one thing is for sure - we don't know what or how to measure 'sound quality'. As much as I hate this fact (myself an engineer), it seems that calls for graphs and measurements will be more or less useless until we find that meaningful 'thing' to measure. Until then, we'll all just need to think like biologists and treat this science empirically.

 *as for the above graph, I think we can pretty much agree that the RS1 is a much better headphone than the PX100, but you'll have the devil's job deducing that just from measurements alone.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(in a hobby where science is key)_

 

That's the funniest statement I've heard in a while! Wow! What an approach to take to audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2deadeyes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should be getting mine tomorrow & snap a few pics._

 

Wow! That's quick. Mine has an estimated delivery date of Nov. 6th.


----------



## devin_mm

Mine is waiting for me at the post office, too bad I won't be able to get it until Tuesday.


----------



## philodox

I'm not even a huge power cord believer, but I know that these discussions have their time and place. This thread is about a free power cord that some head-fi'ers will soon be getting. I don't see why every thread that mentions power cords [or cables of any kind] has to turn into a stupid argument. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is why I am suggesting that people ignore you. I have nothing against you personally.


----------



## shellylh

Thanks! I will try it out on my external DAC (Stello DA100). I assume that this will make more of an impact than using it on my transport (Rotel RCD-961) even though, technically, everything starts with the transport. I guess I might as well just try it out on each component since it won't cost any more.... just time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In general, I would say, put your best power cord on your source/DAC, as it all flows downhill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's also possible that a particular cord has more synergy with a downstream component and can have a better impact there._


----------



## Chu

Did anyone win this who was using a free e-mail service such as gmail/hotmail/yahoo?


----------



## devin_mm

I am using Gmail.


----------



## AndyRx7

Gmail here too.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone win this who was using a free e-mail service such as gmail/hotmail/yahoo?_

 

Yes, I use yahoo.


----------



## OverlordXenu

How is this hobby anything but science related?

 The music is the subjective part.


----------



## philodox

For me it is about enjoying the music. The gear just helps that be more pleasurable. I notice you are building an Opus DAC and a MMM amp. Don't you know that all sources and amplifiers sound the same? There have been lots of 'scientific studies' that show this.


----------



## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the funniest statement I've heard in a while! Wow! What an approach to take to audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am not talking about music, I am talking about what hi-fi audio is about, its about using science to get the best sound quality. Do you think companies just guess how they are going to build a CD player?


----------



## DSlayerZX

to be true, what ever, I don't care for the cable debate any more.

 but anyway, anyone using hotmail and got a congrat mail?
 because mine is on highest security setting. (too much spanish spam

 or.. can someone please give me the address where the congrat e-mail was sent from. so I can add it in my safe list.
 not sure if I will win, but ... just to make sure it hasn't been block..been safe can't hurt you know XD


----------



## vcoheda

it says "congratulations" in the email heading and is from a virtual dynamics address, the latter part should be easy enough to spot.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not talking about music, I am talking about what hi-fi audio is about, its about using science to get the best sound quality. Do you think companies just guess how they are going to build a CD player?_

 

Yeah I understand what you're talking about, I just don't agree with it. I think passion and preference are much more a part of this hobby than science. You have a myriad of companies building gear differently than other companies, each striving for their own signature. That doesn't speak to science to me. If we took a purely scientific approach all gear would sound the same. 
 I can't count the times that a new scientific approach has been a big step back in sound quality. The introduction of the compact disc is a great example of that. It took years and years before CDs came anywhere close to vinyl in terms of sound quality, and IMHO that medium still hasn't gotten there.
 Is there science in the design of audio gear? Most certainly! Is the soul of this hobby deeply rooted in science? Not in my opinion.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me it is about enjoying the music. The gear just helps that be more pleasurable. I notice you are building an Opus DAC and a MMM amp. Don't you know that all sources and amplifiers sound the same? There have been lots of 'scientific studies' that show this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






_

 

I've read one study from the `80s about loudspeaker amplifiers sounding the same. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me.

 I didn't realize that the Opus and the M^3 are crazy-expensive overpriced voodoo parts.

 I don't think they are...

 Do you have a point? The only amp I currently have is some old Radioshack amp that my parents bought years ago, and it hums, loudly, with the K240's. My X-Fi pops every few seconds to the point where it is really, really annoying.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me it is about enjoying the music. The gear just helps that be more pleasurable. I notice you are building an Opus DAC and a MMM amp. Don't you know that all sources and amplifiers sound the same? There have been lots of 'scientific studies' that show this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

 No there are studies proving diminishing returns when you start spending money. You start getting less and less for the money.


----------



## Zorander

Late into the game. Are they still giving out the freebies?


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't realize that the Opus and the M^3 are crazy-expensive overpriced voodoo parts._

 

Owning a DAC in and of itself is a step into audiophilia... I can't think of one non audiophile friend who knows what a DAC is. A homemade mid-high end amplifier for headphones? How many of your friends or family have one of those? How many would think that is absolutely crazy? Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only amp I currently have is some old Radioshack amp that my parents bought years ago, and it hums, loudly, with the K240's. My X-Fi pops every few seconds to the point where it is really, really annoying._

 

Ah, so your reasons are purely practical.

 Well, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find the new system works out well for you. The Opus is a fine DAC, and the M3 a capable amplifier. I think you have a good start with the K240, one of my favorites. Maybe after you get it all setup you will decide to experiment with some different homemade cables. Try not to let placebo take you for a ride.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No there are studies proving diminishing returns when you start spending money. You start getting less and less for the money._

 

Actually there are studies that have 'proved' that all amplifiers sound the same as long as they drive the transducers they are hooked up to. Diminishing returns is common sense, I don't need a study for that.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually there are studies that have 'proved' that all amplifiers sound the same as long as they drive the transducers they are hooked up to. Diminishing returns is common sense, I don't need a study for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 ......then the studies are wrong. The difference between my 85 watt per channel Sansui and 120 watt per channel Yamaha are night and day. The Yamaha does the job with my Polks but the Sansui sounds so much richer in the mids and highs. There are so many factors when it comes to amplification. A $200 100 WPC Sony is not going to sound better than a 100 WPC Rotel/NAD/Carver or any well built amp. Another thing is all these tests are subjective when in most cases the test group isnt intimately familiar with the gear being used such as speakers. Tons of power matters little when its not clean.


----------



## romanalexander

I can't stand these stupid ploys to get people to look at sites. I would never do bussiness with this company.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the studies are wrong_

 

Of course they are! Didn't you see the quotes around proved? Obviously the first post was sarcastic... Do you seriously think I would own the amp I do if I believed this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to illustrate how things 'proven' by 'scientific studies' are not always the final word. Even scientists can be motivated by placebo or have an agenda of some sort.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Owning a DAC in and of itself is a step into audiophilia... I can't think of one non audiophile friend who knows what a DAC is. A homemade mid-high end amplifier for headphones? How many of your friends or family have one of those? How many would think that is absolutely crazy?Ah, so your reasons are purely practical.

 Well, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find the new system works out well for you. The Opus is a fine DAC, and the M3 a capable amplifier. I think you have a good start with the K240, one of my favorites. Maybe after you get it all setup you will decide to experiment with some different homemade cables. Try not to let placebo take you for a ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh believe me, most of my friends thought I was crazy when I got Shure E4C's. So what?

 And thanks, I hope it will be a good combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also plan on eventually getting some K1000's for it too.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_......then the studies are wrong. The difference between my 85 watt per channel Sansui and 120 watt per channel Yamaha are night and day. The Yamaha does the job with my Polks but the Sansui sounds so much richer in the mids and highs. There are so many factors when it comes to amplification. A $200 100 WPC Sony is not going to sound better than a 100 WPC Rotel/NAD/Carver or any well built amp. Another thing is all these tests are subjective when in most cases the test group isnt intimately familiar with the gear being used such as speakers. Tons of power matters little when its not clean._

 

Of course a scientifically controlled, DBT is wrong, but your easily-fallible ears (all of our ears are, well, maybe that sentence structure is unclear...our brains is what is fooled, not the ears) are right. Wow, what sound logic!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course they are! Didn't you see the quotes around proved? Obviously the first post was sarcastic... Do you seriously think I would own the amp I do if I believed this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to illustrate how things 'proven' by 'scientific studies' are not always the final word. Even scientists can be motivated by placebo or have an agenda of some sort._

 

Ahh ok, I thought about that but then figured you just liked tubes or something.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?_

 

No no I mean harmonic distortion ratings of amplifiers. My sansui is 0.025% THD now a days you will find yourself spending more than $1500 to get something close to that. I never knew what it meant till I bought a Harmon Kardon Stereo receiver and the sound was just bad in comparison even though it had more power per channel. Took it back a week later.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Got ya.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And thanks, I hope it will be a good combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also plan on eventually getting some K1000's for it too._

 

It should be. I used to have a K240S and a K271S as my main two headphones. Driven from a PIMETA they were pretty nice, but scaled pretty well with higher end amps. The Beta22 should be a good match. The K1000 is a great 'headphone'... you might want to choose the gain of your Beta22 accordingly though, unless you are planning on getting/building a power amp for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?_

 

I've yet to really do a solid power cord comparison, but I do have experience with dirty power. I live in a Condo building, and every single switching power supply [fridges, microwaves, computers, etc] in the place throws noise back into the power lines. This isn't a big deal for an amplifier with a proper power supply, but with a digital source [DAC or CD player] a huge difference can be heard between plugging it right into the wall or using a power conditioner. The one that I use is rather simple, a UPC-200, but it makes an enormous difference. My amp, however, sounds the same when plugged straight into the wall or the UPC-200... which is interesting given how much I've read about power conditioners limiting the dynamics of amplifiers. Maybe with a power amp I would see it, but with my headphone amp it is a non issue.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *romanalexander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't stand these stupid ploys to get people to look at sites. I would never do bussiness with this company._

 

Ah, I see. So you never shop at Wal-Mart then?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *romanalexander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't stand these stupid ploys to get people to look at sites. I would never do bussiness with this company._

 

I'm quite happy that I looked at their site, actually.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be. I used to have a K240S and a K271S as my main two headphones. Driven from a PIMETA they were pretty nice, but scaled pretty well with higher end amps. The Beta22 should be a good match. The K1000 is a great 'headphone'... you might want to choose the gain of your Beta22 accordingly though, unless you are planning on getting/building a power amp for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I've yet to really do a solid power cord comparison, but I do have experience with dirty power. I live in a Condo building, and every single switching power supply [fridges, microwaves, computers, etc] in the place throws noise back into the power lines. This isn't a big deal for an amplifier with a proper power supply, but with a digital source [DAC or CD player] a huge difference can be heard between plugging it right into the wall or using a power conditioner. The one that I use is rather simple, a UPC-200, but it makes an enormous difference. My amp, however, sounds the same when plugged straight into the wall or the UPC-200... which is interesting given how much I've read about power conditioners limiting the dynamics of amplifiers. Maybe with a power amp I would see it, but with my headphone amp it is a non issue._

 

If only I could afford a Beta22. Eventually, eventually...

 I just use a UPS that has surge protection...What I have plugged into it warrants the protection. We get so many thunderstorms around here.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If only I could afford a Beta22. Eventually, eventually...

 I just use a UPS that has surge protection...What I have plugged into it warrants the protection. We get so many thunderstorms around here._

 

Yeah, the protection is an added bonus.

 Oops, a little slip there. Still, the MMM should be fine for the K240... not sure about the K1000 though.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the protection is an added bonus.

 Oops, a little slip there. Still, the MMM should be fine for the K240... not sure about the K1000 though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been told that the M^3 and the Beta22 share the same MOSFET outputs.

 Edit: Better wording: I've been told that the M^3 and Beta22 have the same output, and that the main difference between them is the Beta22's input circuit, or something.


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I see. So you never shop at Wal-Mart then?_

 

Lots of people dont shop at walmart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (me included, target is infinitely times better but thats another discussion)

 When was the last time walmart had an advertising "ploy"? They advertise on TV, but its always clearly marked walmart. Its not some "anonymous girl who's boyfriend shopped at walmart and they had such good prices!!!!"


----------



## infinitesymphony

Well... No one ever officially verified that AVgurly was from Virtual Dynamics, but I guess it's suspicious enough that he/she only has two posts and they're both in this thread.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lots of people dont shop at walmart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (me included, target is infinitely times better but thats another discussion)

 When was the last time walmart had an advertising "ploy"? They advertise on TV, but its always clearly marked walmart. Its not some "anonymous girl who's boyfriend shopped at walmart and they had such good prices!!!!"_

 

LOL! I agree completely, and much prefer Target, but you understand the point I was trying to make?

 There tactics aren't exactly the same, but most large retailers are going to use gimmicks now and then to draw attention to themselves. I only find this annoying when their products don't warrant attention.

 EDIT: It seems I misunderstood your original point. If indeed that member is from VD I completely agree with you.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been told that the M^3 and Beta22 have the same output, and that the main difference between them is the Beta22's input circuit, or something._

 

I don't really know much about their circuits. Have there been favorable reports of either driving the K1000? My amp struggles with the K1000's a bit, but then, it wasn't designed for them.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't really know much about their circuits. Have there been favorable reports of either driving the K1000? My amp struggles with the K1000's a bit, but then, it wasn't designed for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Jim (fierce_freak) had very favorable impressions of his β22 driving his K1000.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Has anyone gotten their cable yet?


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! I agree completely, and much prefer Target, but you understand the point I was trying to make?

 There tactics aren't exactly the same, but most large retailers are going to use gimmicks now and then to draw attention to themselves. I only find this annoying when their products don't warrant attention.

 EDIT: It seems I misunderstood your original point. If indeed that member is from VD I completely agree with you._

 

Im 99% sure its a virtual dynamics member. girls simply dont come on to head fi to post about high end cables that their boyfriend may or may not buy and then happen to stumble upon free cables. 

 They are promoting something "free" but its still dishonest and its clear they are perfectly capable of doing it again

 What if people in this very thread are really just virtual dynamic members posting positive things about the company?


----------



## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if people in this very thread are really just virtual dynamic members posting positive things about the company?_

 

That seems a little overboard, given the post history and registration dates of some of the people who have recommended the cables.


----------



## markl

Wow, looks like I've been exposed. Well, there's 6 years and thousands of posts not about Virtual Dynamics down the drain...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, looks like I've been exposed. Well, there's 6 years and thousands of posts not about Virtual Dynamics down the drain..._

 

You knew you'd be revealed one day. You just got too confident and careless in the last few months.


----------



## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone gotten their cable yet?_

 

It's still sitting at the post office (bloody work) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You knew you'd be revealed one day. You just got too confident and careless in the last few months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Man, and I thought the Headphoneous Supremus title was gonna be a good cover up.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone gotten their cable yet?_

 

Mine has been in the post office since yesterday. I won't be able to pick it up till tomorrow.


----------



## hciman77

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_......then the studies are wrong. ..A $200 100 WPC Sony is not going to sound better than a 100 WPC Rotel/NAD/Carver or any well built amp._

 


 This is the study that Philodox alluded to...

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

 It is an interesting read and it is worth reading the whole article. This does not mean that all amps do sound the same but it provides a data point that indicates that for these 25 (experienced)listeners in this set of conditions, two amps of very different design and price may be indistinguishable. 

 Other blind tests may show different results, that is why blind tests are useful since they remove the "everybody knows" or the "I know my two amps sound different" from the equation.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hciman77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the study that Philodox alluded to..._

 

Thanks for linking that. It was a good read, even though I don't agree with it.


----------



## AndyRx7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone gotten their cable yet?_

 

I got mine Wednesday evening; I had to flip over my outlet (ground pin down) in order to plug in that beast, plus support it underneath in order to avoid it pulling itself out of my CD player's jack due to its massive weight! Then I started burning it in over the last couple days. I'm fighting procrastination and cramming to write a paper due this Monday, so I'm not able to write lengthy impressions right now, or at least I shouldn't get too carried away. But I probably will anyways... Suffice it to say that I was skeptical, but the improvement is not subtle. I replaced a generic 18 guage computer powercord that I had been using with my Eastsound CD player, which to date I have been pleased with. The differences are really apparent. I would characterize what I am hearing as:

 1) I suppose this would be called 'blacker background'. I experience it as improved separation and an ability to hear minute sounds deep in the mix without focusing as intently as I had to before. Instruments seem to just appear out of nowhere, and disappear again. It's strange, because I thought I had a fairly 'black background' before, but again, this is not a subtle difference - it's readily apparent.

 2) Improved dynamics, speed and attack. The leading edge of notes are better delineated, kicks and snares especially have stronger impact and sound more realistic. This is immensely satisfying!

 3) More bass quantity and extension. On certain tracks I'm almost in disbelief at the monster bass I'm getting, and not at the expense of anything else. But this isn't a flabby, uncontrolled bass; it's highly detailed. Again, very satisfying! 

 The combination of the above tend to create a more organic, realistic, musical sound, with an amazing feeling of effortlessly picking out any part of the mix and listening to it... a very, very fun experience. 

 Also, I would say that this cable has tamed or smoothed my high end a bit. This is just what my RS-1's needed - they are sounding just awesome. With the 650's, I don't like this effect as much; it makes them sound a little too bass heavy, not as sparkly and detailed as they used to (or at least, this is my initial impression). Overall, I don't mind however, as I've been gravitating towards the RS-1's anyways... (but that's another story). I think that if you're looking for a bright setup, this might not be the best cable for that purpose, but again, these are just my initial thoughts, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

 To qualify these observations, I might mention that I've read before that my Eastsound is quite dependent on a decent power cable. Perhaps these rather significant improvements reflect the woeful inadequacy of the cheapo cord I was using before. In any case, I must say that I'm very, very pleased, and was not expecting differences of this magnitude. 

 To those who doubt that power cables matter, I'd just advise to try them out for yourselves. I have never tried a fancy power cable before, was pretty skeptical, and also didn't pay anything for this so I don't think there's much of a buyer's placebo effect going on. I'm pretty surprised at the differences I've experienced, and I feel pretty darn lucky to have had the chance, thanks to those kind folks at Virtual Dynamics!


----------



## vcoheda

nice impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i should have mine sometime next week.


----------



## shaolin95

Mine coming on Nov 6...I dont expect much but who knows.


----------



## OverlordXenu

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Power cord BURN-IN!

 Priceless.


----------



## AndyRx7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Power cord BURIN-IN!

 Priceless._

 

What's a 'burin'? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, excuse my ignorance, I think I've figured it out:

_In lithic reduction, a burin is a special type of lithic flake with a chisel-like edge which prehistoric humans may have used for engraving or for carving wood or bone. Burins exhibit a feature called a "burin spall", in which toolmakers strike a small flake obliquely from the edge of the burin flake in order to form the graving edge. Burin usage is diagnostic of Upper Palaeolithic cultures in Europe, but archaeologists have also identified it in North American cultural assemblages, and in his book Early Man in China Prof. Dr. Jia Lanpo of Beijing University lists dihedral burins and burins for truncation among artifacts uncovered along the banks of the Liyigon river near Xujiayao.

 In the Clavicula Salomonus, a 16th century grimoire, a burin is one of many consecrated instruments._

 I'm still slightly confused, though - did you think I was engraving my new power cable with prehistoric symbols, or rather that I was enjoying my new cable while listening to 16th century consecrated instruments? I assure you that neither was the case; perhaps you should read my impressions more carefully?

 Seriously though, I fail to understand the import of your attempt at ridicule. If you're implying that my objectivity lacks because I 'believe in burn-in' from the outset, I would suggest to you that the best way of assessing a claim is by following its instructions. If 'burn-in' is said to matter, why would I not proceed to 'burn-in' my new cable? Surely this is the fairest way to assess the claim. If I brought the cable in from the cold, plugged it in and immediately disliked its effect, surely a 'believer' would then tell me I did not properly follow the suggested method, no?


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Power cord BURIN-IN!

 Priceless._

 

If you don't know what is best for this community, I suggest you stop posting in these types of topics.


----------



## vcoheda

he is total idiot. just ignore him.


----------



## Vul Kuolun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't know what is best for this community, I suggest you stop posting in these types of topics._

 

I'd suggest the same if you lack any basic physical knowledge.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267044


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndyRx7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously though, I fail to understand the import of your attempt at ridicule. If you're implying that my objectivity lacks because I 'believe in burn-in' from the outset, I would suggest to you that the best way of assessing a claim is by following its instructions. If 'burn-in' is said to matter, why would I not proceed to 'burn-in' my new cable? Surely this is the fairest way to assess the claim. If I brought the cable in from the cold, plugged it in and immediately disliked its effect, surely a 'believer' would then tell me I did not properly follow the suggested method, no?_

 

I do not share Xenu's views about cables as far as him saying they make no difference in sound, but burn in with cables yeah I have to agree with him there. Amps in my experience tend to improve in sound quality after a good amount of use especially with bass. Drivers and cables on the other hand I disagree with the burn in theory. I have yet to hear imprved sound from a headphone after using for a long period. My HD580s sound no better than the day i bought them and they probably have 1200 hours of use the first cable i had for them lasted about the first 600 hours before it started to short out and then I bought a replacement and BAM it sounded the same nothing seemed held back to what I was used to and this is why I doubt burn in with drivers and cables.


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seems a little overboard, given the post history and registration dates of some of the people who have recommended the cables._

 

i didnt name any names, and i didnt specify how many (especially the words "all" or "everyone"), but any low post members in the future talking about virtual dynamic should be taken with a grain of salt (or NONE for that matter).

 im not going to go back in the thread looking for low post count people saying good things about virtual dynamics, im just trying to put some weight to the situation that virtual dynamics isnt above posing as members on message boards hyping their own cables.


----------



## AndyRx7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gritzcolin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not share Xenu's views about cables as far as him saying they make no difference in sound, but burn in with cables yeah I have to agree with him there. Amps in my experience tend to improve in sound quality after a good amount of use especially with bass. Drivers and cables on the other hand I disagree with the burn in theory. I have yet to hear imprved sound from a headphone after using for a long period. My HD580s sound no better than the day i bought them and they probably have 1200 hours of use the first cable i had for them lasted about the first 600 hours before it started to short out and then I bought a replacement and BAM it sounded the same nothing seemed held back to what I was used to and this is why I doubt burn in with drivers and cables._

 

The problem with this 'personal experience' argument, when deployed as an objective contention (i.e. you 'disagree' with the theory), is that someone else can, and many do in fact, feel that their 'personal experience' indicates the opposite conclusion of your 'personal experience'. At that point, there is no resolution beyond comparing the legitimacy of member x's subjective experience vs. member y's subjective experience. So for example, if I have noticed significant differences in headphones, in particular my old SR-80's, over time, are you telling me my experience is less legitimate than yours? I, for one, will not tell you that _your_ experiences are 'wrong' - they're just different than mine, and this difference could be a result of myriad factors (i.e. the headphones we used were different, our systems are different in important respects, we hear differently, we listen differently, etc.) There is no reason to _deride_ another's experience because yours is different.

 Perhaps this is why people get so worked up over these arguments - they essentially boil down to certain members telling other members their experiences are worthless and ignorant, which is basically a personal insult and shows a fundamental lack of respect for what others have to contribute to a (in the ideal world) constructive discussion. The respectful thing to do would be to share your thoughts and personal experience, by all means, but refrain from at the same time telling others theirs _must_ be wrongheaded.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndyRx7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem with this 'personal experience' argument, when deployed as an objective contention (i.e. you 'disagree' with the theory), is that someone else can, and many do in fact, feel that their 'personal experience' indicates the opposite conclusion of your 'personal experience'. At that point, there is no resolution beyond comparing the legitimacy of member x's subjective experience vs. member y's subjective experience. So for example, if I have noticed significant differences in headphones, in particular my old SR-80's, over time, are you telling me my experience is less legitimate than yours? I, for one, will not tell you that your experiences are 'wrong' - they're just different than mine, and this difference could be a result of myriad factors (i.e. the headphones we used were different, our systems are different in important respects, we hear differently, we listen differently, etc.) There is no reason to deride another's experience because yours is different.

 Perhaps this is why people get so worked up over these arguments - they essentially boil down to certain members telling other members their experiences are worthless and ignorant, which is basically a personal insult and shows a fundamental lack of respect for what others have to contribute to a (in the ideal world) constructive discussion. The respectful thing to do would be to share your thoughts and personal experience, by all means, but refrain from at the same time telling others theirs must be wrongheaded._

 

And that is why DBT's are so important.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Just got back from PO. Here are some pics:





































 This PC is VERY heavy compared to the BlackSand ones I have.


----------



## chesebert

wow..that looks sweet..let us know how it sounds


----------



## 2deadeyes

Will do...letting it burn in for now.

 EDIT: Wow, right off the bat, the increase in bass details really surprised me (probably due to the high ga. this PC has). I'm using it on my Apache.


----------



## shellylh

Just got the PC. It is very heavy so I will have to think of a way of setting it up so that it won't pull my DAC off the shelf. Too bad I don't have time to try it out this weekend as I have a big deadline on Tuesday.


----------



## gotchaforce

I will never get how companies can put inkjet advertisements underneath some clear heatshrink and think it looks good.


----------



## AndyRx7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the PC. It is very heavy so I will have to think of a way of setting it up so that it won't pull my DAC off the shelf. Too bad I don't have time to try it out this weekend as I have a big deadline on Tuesday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The way I did it was by putting 2 banker's boxes under the cable, near the level of the jack on my CD player. This is unsightly of course, but it isn't a very visible location here. However, my source does weigh about 23 pounds or something, so my problem was the cable pulling out of the jack, not the player itself lifting up...


----------



## OverlordXenu

Why would they make a power cord that is overly heavy?

 That's just dumb.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would they make a power cord that is overly heavy?

 That's just dumb._

 

Probably intended for floor based amps or other on the floor components.


----------



## didwlgh

I believe that was the compromise they had to make in designing those particular cables.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *didwlgh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that was the compromise they had to make in designing those particular cables._

 

What compromise?


----------



## meat01

Quote:


 Why would they make a power cord that is overly heavy?

 That's just dumb. 
 

Because people equate high price, heavy and good build quality to good sound quality. It seems to be working


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would they make a power cord that is overly heavy?_

 

Heavy means it's high quality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Besides, you can brag about how heavy your power cord is to people who can't appreciate the revolutionary 24/192 upsampler circuit in your DAC. The weight also reinforces placebo, which is at least an important factor in these things.


----------



## vcoheda

that thing looks like a beast. i should have mine next week. plan to use it with my apache as well.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221635

 A VD power cord was ranked numero uno on that list.

 :// hype on


----------



## tpirovol

Is this over?


----------



## 2deadeyes

Doesn't hurt to register now and try your luck. They're running 4 drawings of 25 winners each (100 winners total). I was in the first drawing and that was late October. They're probably on the 3rd or final drawing now.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Edit: Delete, I'm terrible at jokes.


----------



## mrarroyo

I received my Virtual Dynamics Power Cord 3 yesterday (11/3/07). However I was not able to pick it up from the front desk till today. I have read how heavy, thick, and un-flexible they are, however until you have it in your hand it is very hard to truly know. Click on the thumbnail below to view the full size picture.





 Since I have very limited space I will have to remove all the music gear by my computer cabinet to install this cable. A job for which I anticipate I will need at least two hours. Chances are I will put it in service in a week or so. BTW, having only one cable and various pieces of gear where it will fit I have the dilemma of where to install it. Currently I am leaning for the CD Player since it is the first step on the music ladder.

 BTW, I have also included two close-ups of the male plug which appears it is crooked. I wonder if that is by design or if a manufacturing defect, would any of the owners of this cable provide feedback. Thanks.


----------



## swt61

I got an email saying that mine was delivered, but I'm away on a job and will be gone for a while.


----------



## vcoheda

it looks like a python.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it looks like a python. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope it doesn't hiss.


----------



## vcoheda

i got my power cord today. it is as people say very heavy and unwieldy. you almost have to rearrange your entire setup just to get in to fit in place, as the cord is going to fall/curve the way it wants to and no other. my Apache is at ray's being modded, so i won't have a chance to listen to it for a few days. that's good though as it will give me a chance to burn it in some.


----------



## musicmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it looks like a python. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Exactly my reaction when I opened the box this morning. Can't wait to get home and try my new python, excuse me, cable.


----------



## shaolin95

Anyone know if a cable like this is good for a computer as well. Maybe help a bit with stability for highly OCed computers?


----------



## Vul Kuolun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaolin95* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if a cable like this is good for a computer as well. Maybe help a bit with stability for highly OCed computers?_

 

As long as you don't do benchmarks and rely on your "feeling" regarding the stability of your system, sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can talk to fellows on the net then abouth how much more fun CS is with your new cord, and that sure as hell there must be something about the cable that makes the builders of your cpu look like dilletantes.


----------



## shaolin95

I knew I shouldnt have asked!


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i got my power cord today. it is as people say very heavy and unwieldy. you almost have to rearrange your entire setup just to get in to fit in place, as the cord is going to fall/curve the way it wants to and no other. my Apache is at ray's being modded, so i won't have a chance to listen to it for a few days. that's good though as it will give me a chance to burn it in some._

 

Power-cord burn-in? Oh my, I think I need to sit down.


----------



## Romanee

I'm sure I can find some good use for that monster. 

 I thought it was way past the last entry date, but the registration page still shows the offer (opportunity):







 Of course I registered. I've visited the site and communicated a bit in the past and thought I was registered, but apparently not … 'til now.

 Now I'll have to actually install the Oyaide SWO-XXX ULTIMO (2-tap) purple wall receptacle that's been sitting in a box waiting for my attentions.


----------



## vcoheda

that's a different and new raffle.

 looks like vd is trying to increase their presence - create a buzz about their products - in the audio community.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's a different and new raffle.

 looks like vd is trying to increase their presence - create a buzz about their products - in the audio community._

 

Ahhh! Well, I'd be thrilled to win a Nite Series 3 to audition and compare.


----------



## radz

Mine arrived today.

 I live in Australia so that was pretty fast and the ETA was 12 November so I was pretty excited as I went down to pick it up.

 I haven't used it yet but it is a huge cord.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

How are you guys burning in the PC? I'm planning on plugging it into my computer monitor...


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power-cord burn-in? Oh my, I think I need to sit down._

 

Yeah you should do that. Preferably somewhere far away from the computer keyboard.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are you guys burning in the PC? I'm planning on plugging it into my computer monitor..._

 

I usually burn in PC by plugging it to my computer. I can't with this one since it doesn't bend enough around corners.


----------



## markl

Just put it on whatever component you think you will use it on an leave the component on 24/7, but I suggest powering down once or twice per day for an hour. You'd be surprised how this helps speed the burn-in process.

 The VD cords have A LOT of copper in them, so burn in is very very slow. Don't expect to hear it at its best until at least the 400 hour mark.


----------



## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The VD cords have A LOT of copper in them, so burn in is very very slow. Don't expect to hear it at its best until at least the 400 hour mark._

 

I rarely post in cable threads, but just to be clear, VD cords do not have "A LOT" of copper in them. That's demonstrably false, as Jude's VD cable dissection showed. The dissection demonstrated that VD cables were relatively thin gauge copper surrounded by what looks like aquarium pebbles.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The dissection demonstrated that VD cables were relatively thin gauge copper surrounded by what looks like aquarium pebbles._

 

14 gauge solid-core copper (per website)


----------



## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_14 gauge solid-core copper (per website)_

 

Thanks... not "A LOT" of copper by any stretch. The thickness conveys the impression that there is a lot of copper inside, but it's mostly filler.


----------



## swt61

Cable design is much more complicated than just heavy guage wire, and that has little correlation to SQ in my experience.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Well, it's been only 3 days since the arrival of the Power 3 & I have a feeling you'll be seeing some BlackSand PC posted in the FS forum soon.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's demonstrably false, as Jude's VD cable dissection showed. The dissection demonstrated that VD cables were relatively thin gauge copper surrounded by what looks like aquarium pebbles._

 

URL please?


----------



## colonelkernel8

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...rtual+dynamics

 Pictures are not working atm. They may not work because it is a very old thread. This is my favorite post that sums up my feelings on cables.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Phreon* 
_I certainly do not want to come off as sounding dismissive. I just find it very curious that a group of people could be so sure of their convictions, yet at the same time actively avoid double blind testing that could confirm their ability to distinguish cables once and for all. We are all succeptible to the effects of our hopes and desires. Can you ascribe the the popularity of Bose speakers to any other phenomena? Bose speakers are big name items and are expensive. They *must* be good!

 Am I close minded for saying te sky is blue and the Earth is round? Why are the rec.audio folks close minded for stating that there is no significant difference between cables when in double blind tests, people cannot distinguish the difference? What other explanation can you offer for their sudden lack of discrimination skills when they cannot see which cable they are listening to? How can you dismiss baisc laws of physics that refute the manufacturer's claims?

 I had a discussion the other day with a friend about the difference between Excedrin and Excedrin Migraine. They swear that Excedrin Migraine works much better. Even after pointing out on the product labels that both items are identical, they still would not agree that the "migraine formula" is not more effective than the "regular formula" Were they being open minded or closed minded? Is the difference anything other than the placebo effect?

 Isn't it close minded to dismiss an entire group of people because they don't hold your views? Are astrophysicists closed minded for refusing all arguments that the earth is flat?

 As I've stated before, my mission is not to persuade anyone. I just want some answers to why a $500 power cable should make a difference. An answer beyond pure conjecture. Both you and Kelly have done nothing but say in so many words, "You ask to many questions, I don't like that, please stop".

 I'm sorry if you or Kelly find my desire to gather facts obnoxious. I have not made any derisive statements and really don't want to argue with anyone, but if someone challenges accepted scientific laws using bad logic, I will respond. Like I said, it's unfortunate that you or anyone are troubled by my questions...I admit I'm annoyingly persistant though.

 I read the Virtual Dynamics (I found that name ironic, look up the def. of virtual) technology section and nearly laughed myself out of my couch. Most of the claims they make are only vaguely applicable in the audio range of frequencies (not 60hz power) and the rest are outright fabrications.

 For example, here's their blurb explaining their "Speed of Light" technology:

 "Electrons can travel at the speed of light. The capacitance of a cable will often limit how close to light speed an electron can reach. By placing an Acceleration Field within the path of the electrons, we accelerate the electron back to the speed of light. This results in a great increase in the cable's power throughput.

 Our engineers have not yet fully put a finger on why Speed of Light is so dramatic. We expect to soon have a vast understanding to share with you on our new technology.
 "

 Accceleration field? Have not fully put a finger on why Speed of Light is so dramatic? I wonder why that is? Why would speeding up the travel of electrons to your amplifier's power supply via an "acceleration field"(not possible) effect it's soundstage? The speed of electrons, or more precisely the speed that electrons flow at below those in free space, in a conductor, is directly related to the capacitance of the insulator surrounding it. The common term for this is "velocity factor". When dealing with frequencies and voltages withinin the realm of your household supply, velocity factor has no effect. To put it simply, the whole explanation they give is a load of crap. That goes for their explanation of the "Coloumb Effect" in their "Dynamic Filtering" technology as well. And the "Poly Phenyl Either", correctly known as Polyphenyl ETHER, in their ProTecX treatment is found in many common contact cleaners and lubricants. It's been around for years. Not that revolutionary.


 The VD Basic cable may very well have measurable benefits, but the the complete load of hogwash given on their page is not the reason.

 So can anyone offer a rational explanation as to why these high expense cables are better, other than saying, "Cause I know it's true, science is bad, neener neener neener" ?


 Phreon

 Any typographical or grammatical errors you my sense are due to the current solar flux shifting the aperture grid of your monitor._

 

What an amazing post. Thank you old Head-Fi.


----------



## mrarroyo

Well, I am going to discuss Virtual Dynamics customer service in one word: AMAZING

 I posted a couple of pictures of the male plug on post 259 in this thread. I was contacted by Virtual Dynamics and they stated they were very concerned that I had received such a cable. They indicated they had sent me a replacement and would like me to send back the unit I have and they would reimburse me for the cost of shipping it back. Great customer service and on their dime (they called me).

 This is the kind of service that few companies have and makes you want to do business w/ them again. BTW I ofered to keep the cable if it was just a cosmetic issue (which they said it was) but they insisted in sending me a replacement cable.

 So, buy w/ confidence this guys care about their product and its use/acceptance by their customers.

 Kudos to VD!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Just got my cable, initial impression is that it made my music sound a bit darker (which isn't exactly good news for HD650s). I didn't get much sleep last night, though, so it might just be me (it probably is). Will report back after burn-in and some rest.


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2deadeyes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it's been only 3 days since the arrival of the Power 3 & I have a feeling you'll be seeing some BlackSand PC posted in the FS forum soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

you are using it on your apache, right? i plan to try it there first.


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am going to discuss Virtual Dynamics customer service in one word: AMAZING

 I posted a couple of pictures of the male plug on post 259 in this thread. I was contacted by Virtual Dynamics and they stated they were very concerned that I had received such a cable. They indicated they had sent me a replacement and would like me to send back the unit I have and they would reimburse me for the cost of shipping it back. Great customer service and on their dime (they called me).

 This is the kind of service that few companies have and makes you want to do business w/ them again. BTW I ofered to keep the cable if it was just a cosmetic issue (which they said it was) but they insisted in sending me a replacement cable.

 So, buy w/ confidence this guys care about their product and its use/acceptance by their customers.

 Kudos to VD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

wow. that's pretty cool.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you are using it on your apache, right? i plan to try it there first._

 

Yes, on the Apache.


----------



## swt61

Has anyone compared their's to a favorite power cable regardless of price, and what were the results?


----------



## vcoheda

i hopefully will be able to do a few comparisons this weekend.


----------



## 2deadeyes

I was using a BlackSand Violet Z1 w/Oyaide 046 terminations on my Apache. After swapping it out with the Power 3, it will NOT be going back in. 

 The Power 3 is near the 100 hour mark and I highly favor the sound that's coming out now than previously with the BlackSand. Music has more weight behind each note due to the significant improvement in bass details without sacrificing speed and details in the mid/high range - interestingly strange as the gauge rating is higher on the BlackSand (12 ga.) than the Power 3 (14 ga.).

 I'm currently looking into replacing the PC (also a BlackSand) on my DAC with a VD.


----------



## vcoheda

thx for the impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my experience with very thick power cords is that you generally get a fuller sound with greater bass, but things can also sound boomy and too thick or a bit muddled. if the VD cord can truly offer a fuller sound and better bass response without loss of speed or dynamic contrast, then it surely will be a keeper. my VD cord has about 50 hours of burn in. by the time i give it a listen, it should be at or around the 100 hour mark.


----------



## Chu

EDIT : archive.org grabbed all the pictures from Jude's thread except for one. They are really interesting.

Here it is for your viewing pleasure.

 To make a long story short, the reason these are so stiff has nothing to do with the conductors. I edited out a picture of exactly what that is because there's a funny story that goes with the dissection that the picture sort of ruins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd be incredibly curious to see hard EMI/RFI numbers for a VD basic cable.


----------



## markl

Quote:


 Thanks... not "A LOT" of copper by any stretch. The thickness conveys the impression that there is a lot of copper inside, but it's mostly filler. 
 

 Didn't look at the specs of the Power 3, so wasn't aware they were 14-guage which is pretty standard, but my experience with these solid core conductors and VD cables in general is that the do in fact need A LOT of burn-in, much more than stranded copper. As you go up the line (where I've been for years now), they get thicker and thicker (my Master 3.0 ICs are *8 guage*, that thick enough for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 The so-called "filler" is damping material to damp vibrations. It's not a secret, either, they brag about all over their website, so Jude did not make much of a "discovery" there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It serves a function and is not just there for show. In fact, I know for a fact that VD loses some business due to the unreasonably thick and inflexible nature of their products, it bugs the hell out of me, but I put up with it due to their sound. But, it's all part of their design, so there's nothing they can do about it without sacrificing sound quality from their point of view.

 We could argue all day about whether you or someone else thinks this "Dynamic Filtering" makes any difference or not. I don't know, I haven't A/B-ed their cables with or without it, and no one else has either. I don't know which of their technologies work or don't work, but I do know that the final product is outstanding, the proof is in the pudding. 

 I'd rather just deal with and accept their (let's say) "unusual" approach to cables, than have them remove any or all of their "special" features. Having tried 24 other cords I can say with some authority that nothing else sounds like them, or sound as good, no matter what it is that is or isn't contributing to their performance.


----------



## philodox

I've always thought that the best power cord should be used on your source, you may want to try it there rather than on the Apache. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They use solid core 14 guage? Isn't stranded more common for power? Strange.


----------



## didwlgh

VD only uses solid core wire as far as I know.


----------



## philodox

14 guage solid core would be VERY stiff. No wonder they don't go with a larger guage. I've also read comments on the benefits of stranded vs. solid for power lines. I wonder what it is about solid core that has caused them to use it for their power cords?


----------



## markl

philodox, look at their top of the line cables. My Master 3.0 are 8-guage solid core copper. The top Genesis is a whopping 6-guage.


----------



## boomana

Got my shipping notice today. We'll see.


----------



## didwlgh

The Genesis cables ar screwing hard to bend.


----------



## didwlgh

IIRC, VD said solid core has better conductivity, and doesn't suffer from minute differences/delays in signal transfer you can observe in multistranded wires.

 Vibration affects solid core more significantly though - hence their crazy thick vibration dampning.

 Thats what I heard...correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## philodox

6 gauge solid core seems a touch crazy to me. Why solid core over stranded?

 EDIT: Just read didwlgh's post. Interesting, though we're not talking about signal transfer here. In everything that I've read it said the opposite about conductivity given the higher surface area on stranded wire.


----------



## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *didwlgh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_doesn't suffer from minute differences/delays in signal transfer_

 

Except no signal is being sent over a power cable...


----------



## didwlgh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6 gauge solid core seems a touch crazy to me. Why solid core over stranded?

 EDIT: Just read didwlgh's post. Interesting, though we're not talking about signal transfer here. In everything that I've read it said the opposite about conductivity given the higher surface area on stranded wire._

 

Yeah I'm no engineer, so sombody could help me out with the conductivity thing. But I did hear that one of the biggest reasons people use stranded is because solids are more affected by vibration.

 I think electricity flowing through power cords is an electrical sine "signal" as well. Maybe they're affected by time difference depends on which strand they go through?

 maybe somebody could help out here.


----------



## 2deadeyes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *colonelkernel8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except no signal is being sent over a power cable..._

 

Then what do you call the waveform displayed on an oscilliscope that alternates 60 times per second with a max amplitude of 115V~120V when measuring the wall socket (in North America at least)?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Not again...


----------



## vcoheda

when did this site get so lame. i come here less and less.

 when did it move from actual discussion about _using_ audio products - this is an audio website, last time i checked - and their similarities/differences to people discussing areas of science and engineering that, i suspect for the vast majority, they have little to no real knowledge of.


----------



## swt61

Yes but that's why you need to wonder over more often, to help balance it out. Sometimes I get fed up, but I'm not going anywhere.


----------



## yage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when did this site get so lame. i come here less and less.

 when did it move from actual discussion about using audio products - this is an audio website, last time i checked - and their similarities/differences to people discussing areas of science and engineering that, i suspect for the vast majority, they have little to no real knowledge of._

 

Best to just ignore the (annoying) vocal minority and continue on.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when did it move from actual discussion about using audio products - this is an audio website, last time i checked - and their similarities/differences to people discussing areas of science and engineering that, i suspect for the vast majority, they have little to no real knowledge of._

 

I agree that it gets to be a bit much sometimes, but there is really nothing wrong with a little speculation. I've been doing some in this thread myself, and usually I am labeled as a 'believer' in most of these types of threads. I don't have any problems with people scientifically explaining things, so long as they give some credibility to what people have actually experienced. The problem is, they usually don't.


----------



## swt61

Jay I'm probably going to pop myself on the forehead and say "of coarse!", but what does the P stand for tagged onto the K340 in your signature?


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6 gauge solid core seems a touch crazy to me. Why solid core over stranded?

 EDIT: Just read didwlgh's post. Interesting, though we're not talking about signal transfer here. In everything that I've read it said the opposite about conductivity given the higher surface area on stranded wire._

 

I'm always incrediby sceptical though when I hear these conductivity arguements because you have tens of meters (maybe more!) of 16ga cable behiind the wall before it even hits the aftermarket cables in your system. If conductivity is _really_ what matters in a lot of cases hiring an electrician might be cheaper then buying the cable when we get to the ultra-high-priced cables.


----------



## didwlgh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm always incrediby sceptical though when I hear these conductivity arguements because you have tens of meters (maybe more!) of 16ga cable behiind the wall before it even hits the aftermarket cables in your system._

 

I'd rather get on the highway sometime on the way than to take the local the whole time.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jay I'm probably going to pop myself on the forehead and say "of coarse!", but what does the P stand for tagged onto the K340 in your signature?_

 

Philodox, Perfect, Penultimate, Prestige... etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing really, just thought I'd put a letter there rather than writing 'heavily modded K340'.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *didwlgh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd rather get on the highway sometime on the way than to take the local the whole time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I honestly don't get the analogy. Power in the United States is a 60Hz signal, no slower and no faster. You also cannot "change speeds" in power so to speak.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Philodox, Perfect, Penultimate, Prestige... etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nothing really, just thought I'd put a letter there rather than writing 'heavily modded K340'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol!


----------



## swt61

I received my VD Power Three power cable while I was out of town on business. I got a chance to try it out during the holiday weekend, and I'm very impressed. It hasn't even had proper burn in time and already performs well above my other power cables, some of which are no slouch.
 Sadly I have to leave again tomorrow, but will give more impressions upon my return in a few weeks.


----------



## philodox

Nice, glad you are enjoying it Steve.


----------



## Mher6

More impressions please! With VD's 50% off holiday sale, I might be picking up a cable (has anyone heard the testament 2.0 power cable?).


----------



## vcoheda

even with 50% off, the prices are still wow!


----------



## SoFlaChris

During the Head-Fi blackout, I received my contest-won power cable (Power 3) from Virtual Dynamics. All 4 pounds of it. It was like wrestling an anaconda to get it to "settle down" and lay the way that I wanted it. For the most part, it won. At its connection points (wall and backplane of amp), it sort of hangs on its own weight. A little unnerving at first, but I saw nothing of consequence and left it alone.

 A quick preface: I had no preconceived notions about power cables except that they bring the 120v/60~ from the wall to the unit being powered. I didn't expect to suddenly hear a gnat flying in the studio during a recording that I've heard 100 times prior, without event. So far, I cannot hear anything different. Of immediate note, however, was the absence of some RFI that I sometimes received from my cell phone. So, it must be safe to assume that the cord offers some shielding that, up until now, I have not enjoyed.

 I will try some tests with my reference and switch between cables and report back with my findings.

 Thanks for reading,
 Chris


----------



## nick20

My Power 3 is on it's way as well. Should be here at the beginning of the week. I hope there is a difference between the VH Audio PC I have and the $300 VD Power 3. 







 -Nick


----------



## Dan Millheim

I too got a notice during the Holiday from Brad at Virtual Dynamics that I was a winner. I confirmed this with Candace and the Power 3 cord should be here Friday. I believe this is a second round offering that only lasted around 24 hours sometime around the week before Thanksgiving. I was actually contacted on Thanksgiving Day that I had won...it is in Canada. I'll let you know my thoughts when it settles.


----------



## papomaster

I recieved my cable from the raffle yesterday. The first thing I remarked was its weight : this thing must weight at least 2 pounds! The second thing was the size : it is HUGE. The cable itself is as big as the end of the female connector. Then, last but not least, the stiffness : once this thing chose the way it's bending, you can't make it change its mind. When I say stiff, it's as stiff as a rubber water pipe once you put some pressure.

 Does anyone have an advice on how to "unbend" the cord? I want to make it as straight as possible to make it follow a wall, behind a closet.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Millheim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too got a notice during the Holiday from Brad at Virtual Dynamics that I was a winner. I confirmed this with Candace and the Power 3 cord should be here Friday. I was actually contacted on Thanksgiving Day that I had won..._

 


 Me too... I didn't expect them to be open, let alone somone from VD would be sending out e-mail during Thanksgiving.


----------



## Dan Millheim

I got my cable today. I have 4 other high end power cords and this is a wonderful cable considering it is second from the bottom of VD's product offering. WOW! I have it burning in but right out of the box it hits you with a weight and presence that really impacts sound stage.


----------



## pompon

How you order 5 foot without extra length for the Power3 ?

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/conte...econdary_id=77

 The Add Length is always set to +2 foot and the other choice is +4 foot. No option for none.

 While all cables at 50%, ... I look hard for the David's series.
 Should I go to theses ? I don't find much informations for them anywhere.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me too... I didn't expect them to be open, let alone somone from VD would be sending out e-mail during Thanksgiving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you forget VD is a Canadian company?


----------



## patalp

Marketing genius. A power cable... for 200 dollars.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you forget VD is a Canadian company? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL.


----------



## RedLeader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patalp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Marketing genius. A power cable... for 200 dollars._

 

$300


----------



## vcoheda

if you think a few hundred dollars is a lot, you should look at their top cables.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2deadeyes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then what do you call the waveform displayed on an oscilliscope that alternates 60 times per second with a max amplitude of 115V~120V when measuring the wall socket (in North America at least)?_

 

It is called AC, and it is not an audio signal...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait a minute! They're giving away a cable they sell for $305.00, and you're going to quibble about a $33.00 S&H charge?

 You know they still need to pay the employees that are packaging and shipping these cords, and I'm happy to pay the $33.00._

 

I'm not, the cable retails for 305 but that doesn't mean at all that it costs that much to be made, with the $33.00 IMO they are probably still making a little profit over the cost of materials...it is a power cord guys, a piece fo power cable (with a few voodooish additions in the filler) and two jacks, period, there is no science behind that....gimme a break!!!


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not, the cable retails for 305 but that doesn't mean at all that it costs that much to be made, with the $33.00 IMO they are probably still making a little profit over the cost of materials...it is a power cord guys, a piece fo power cable (with a few voodooish additions in the filler) and two jacks, period, there is no science behind that....gimme a break!!!_

 

The jacks aren't cheap, and neither is high purity solid core copper wire. They are definately not making money on these free cables. As for the benefits of power cords, did you hear any improvement when you switched from stock cables to the Quails you are using now?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The jacks aren't cheap, and neither is high purity solid core copper wire. They are definately not making money on these free cables. As for the benefits of power cords, did you hear any improvement when you switched from stock cables to the Quails you are using now?_

 


 Nope, jacks are cheap, and cooper wire is cheap also, who said the opposite??? 

 About the Quails, of course I didn't get any difference, but I never expected to get it, they are overall better constructed, and more solid, that is the only reason I use them, BTW I didn't pay $33.00 for them...IIRC one of them cost me $15.00 the black one....half of that price...the rest were freebies...


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, jacks are cheap, and cooper wire is cheap also, who said the opposite???_

 

I'm saying the opposite. Though I'm sure that VD gets a huge bulk discount on their cabling and jacks, they are not as cheap as you are making them out to be. I've sourced similar stuff from online resellers that have very attractive pricing [compared to the boutique shops] and $33 for a cable like this is a bargain. These cables are heavy in any case, so most of that is going to shipping. There is also cost/time to manufacture. They just don't appear out of thin air. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the Quails, of course I didn't get any difference, but I never expected to get it_

 

That could very well by why you found no difference. Preconceptions can skew things either way.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying the opposite. Though I'm sure that VD gets a huge bulk discount on their cabling and jacks, they are not as cheap as you are making them out to be. I've sourced similar stuff from online resellers that have very attractive pricing [compared to the boutique shops] and $33 for a cable like this is a bargain. These cables are heavy in any case, so most of that is going to shipping. There is also cost/time to manufacture. They just don't appear out of thin air.


 That could very well by why you found no difference. Preconceptions can skew things either way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Beleive what you want about the first topic, I have also made power cords myself, and I know the prices...I used Marinco jacks and Belden wire...problably Marinco is more expensive than the ones they use, as Marinco rebrand them, and they are maybe getting them from the source...about the labor well that is true, specially if they charge those prices for the cables, for sure their labor should be pretty high.... 

 About the second topic, maybe you are right, but the fact was that i didn't get any, that is a fact for me...also IMO if you expect to find a difference for sure you will noticed it later on...Also I can tell you that I have expected to find no differences at all in things that turned out to make big differences later on, just to mention one case, I didn't expect to get any difference while I got my first pair of Editon 9 in comparison to the PROLines, given that they share the same drivers, and the difference was day and night...and I could mention a couple more...


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *philodox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That could very well by why you found no difference. Preconceptions can skew things either way._

 

we have a winner.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beleive what you want about the first topic, I have also made power cords myself, and I know the prices...I used Marinco jacks and Belden wire...problably Marinco is more expensive than the ones they use, as Marinco rebrand them, and they are maybe getting them from the source...about the labor well that is true, specially if they charge those prices for the cables, for sure their labor should be pretty high..._

 

I guess I just look at the $33 price [including shipping] and think, _Could I make this cable for any cheaper?_ For most people, I am betting the answer is no. Even if you could make a similar cable for that price, you'd have to build it yourself, and you'd be missing out on any special tweaks that VD does to their cables. I am as skeptical as the next guy about whether any of those tweaks make audible differences, but the fact is that they have been running a business that specializes in making cables for some time now. If there are any secrets, chances are they've found them.

 Now, at the $300 purchase price, they are clearly making a huge profit. Whether or not the cable is worth that price in your system is hard to say, but the cynic in me would guess no. I'm not going to cut someone down or call them stupid if they disagree though, that's their prerogative. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the second topic, maybe you are right, but the fact was that i didn't get any, that is a fact for me...also IMO if you expect to find a difference for sure you will noticed it later on...Also I can tell you that I have expected to find no differences at all in things that turned out to make big differences later on, just to mention one case, I didn't expect to get any difference while I got my first pair of Editon 9 in comparison to the PROLines, given that they share the same drivers, and the difference was day and night...and I could mention a couple more..._

 

It definately goes both ways. The difference with power cords is that you plug them in and then they just stay there, you're not swapping them out and doing a comparison. With headphones this happens naturally, and the differences are more pronounced to begin with. I can't recall if I heard any big difference when I used the Quails in my system. To be honest, at the time, I didn't really care. Like you, I was just happy to have something that seemed to more rugged and fit the IEC jacks better. I have, since, tried a few different power cables on my source and have noticed minor differences. Nothing that has made me shell out the money for a better cable though.


----------



## viggen

Don't trust VD. If you have a good system, you will most likely spend more money upgrading from the P3. And, you'd probably spend it on more expensive VD cables. 

 I purchased their P3 cables many years ago at $50 a pop. I then moved up to P2 which I liked more than the higher end Audition that my friend got. I did continue to upgrade the PCs, but I didn't continue with VD like so many other audiophiles did...


----------



## vcoheda

^^^what's so bad about VD, besides the price of course.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^what's so bad about VD, besides the price of course._

 


 You can't expect everyone to like VD. 


 They're like the Yankee's.. everyone loves and hates them. That's seems to be the general consensus here as well..


----------



## IPodPJ

Ok well I'll come out and say it. This company is an absolute fraud. There is absolutely no purpose in spending $13,000 on any cable, ever. Good cables certainly make a difference, but there are cable companies that make superb cables for 98% less than that.

 And here's the icing on the cake:
 Reason 1) "Through December 21, all cables 50% off!" If a cable was really worth $13,000 and cost even half of that to make, they wouldn't be selling it for half price, ever.
 Reason 2) They will give you a "full price paid for" trade-in upgrade on any Virtual Dynamics cables you have bought. All products lose value over time because better products come out to replace them, and cables are no exception. So they can't obviously resell these cables for their original selling price. And no business is in business to lose money. Therefore, their cables aren't worth a fraction of what they sell for.


----------



## vcoheda

the new MIT oracle cable is 25K for the first few feet. they don't sell their cables at half price though. so are they legitimate or a fraud as well. the valhalla odin is 13K. fraud too? a burmeister CD player is 50K. a clear audio turntable is 100K. all fraud?


----------



## LawnGnome

You had to pay for VD? 

 Damn, I'd pay NOT to get VD.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the new MIT oracle cable is 25K for the first few feet. they don't sell their cables at half price though. so are they legitimate or a fraud as well. the valhalla odin is 13K. fraud too? a burmeister CD player is 50K. a clear audio turntable is 100K. all fraud?_

 

No offense, but were you even thinking with your head when you wrote this? _Look_ at all the stuff that sells for multi-thousands and more. Where do you think the money is going? Audio circuitry? You're kidding yourself if you think the >$10K equipment uses audio circuitry or parts that are superior to <$10K equipment. Circuits and parts are all essentially the same thing and you can only do so much with them. It's not as if the ultra-expensive equipment is built on some futuristic nanotech that's somehow the secret ingredient from the heavens.

 The reason most of the ultra-expensive equipment is that expensive is because excessively wealthy people want audio equipment that has looks to go with their lavish lifestyle and they want to show off flashy anodized aluminum or gold or platinum, or whatever else it is the ultra-expensive stuff is plated with. Because these people want ultra-lavishly styled equipment, there are companies more than willing to make that kind of stuff so they can rake in the dough. How can you really think the sound gets that much better on the extreme upper fringe? Maybe "fraud" isn't the right word to use but a lot of it is really just there for looks, not sound.


----------



## vcoheda

well. when did you become such a know it all.


----------



## Asr

I'm not pretending to be a "know it all" as you put it, as I don't know half the stuff I'd like to, but none of the stuff in the audio industry is built on mystique, and there are plenty of companies who try to sell that idea. Do you know anything at all about electronics, even a little bit? Have you ever taken a look at an electronic circuit? It's not magic, it's science, and there's nothing to justify the price of the ultra-expensive equipment other than the materials they use for the chassis work and processes involved for the finishing.


----------



## Sovkiller

Any CPU of any PC, any Cellphone, that maybe cost you $200.00 has a lot more electronics, innovations, and really creative ideas inside, and shells a lot more complex circuitry than any half a million audio equipment...audio is one of the simplest things you can find in electronics today...


----------



## vcoheda

if you're not acting like a know it all, then i guess you are just being a **** - no "offense" though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for every product - source, amp, phones, cables -, some people will say it is not worth the price, no matter how much it is. i'm sure some people think the odins are worth their price or the VD cords. would i personally spend a few thousand on a cable. no. but that's because it doesn't fit in my budget. if i had matching components at that price, i may. can i categorically state that expensive cables are not worth it. no. because i haven't heard them.


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you're not acting like a know it all, then i guess you are just being a jerk - no "offense" though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for every product - source, amp, phones, cables -, some people will say it is not worth the price, no matter how much it is. i'm sure some people think the odins are worth their price or the VD cords. would i personally spend a few thousand on a cable. no. but that's because it doesn't fit in my budget. if i had matching components at that price, i may. can i categorically state that expensive cables are not worth it. no. because i haven't heard them._

 

Once again, you are starting with the personal attacks just because someone has an opinion that opposes yours.


----------



## Asr

I'm just trying to offer some common sense on the subject, how does that look like I'm being a "jerk"? All I'm saying is that electronics, technology, and processes can only improve to a point, and that there's a market that exists in the audio industry where the premium being paid is for flash and not substance. Educated people _can_ categorically dismiss an ultra-expensive product because there _is_ a point where a product ceases to be merely functional and more about form. There are other industries that do the same - boutique computers, cars, jewelry, etc. Audio isn't any different.


----------



## vcoheda

i see your point. but you could have worded your prior post better. that's for sure.


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i see your point. but you could have worded your prior post better. that's for sure._

 


 Actually, from what I read, he has posted his views pretty neutrally. Even after you made those personal insults towards him.

 But what he says is true, you quit paying for performance after a point and pay for prestige, in fact, often, the designs are beefed up reference designs.


----------



## Asr

Ok sure I could have, but your wording implied a lack of thinking ability which I just found amazing. You've clearly researched those products, so you've likely seen what they look like, along with their price tags. You've _seen_ pics of those I'm sure, and you don't know why they're that expensive? Or maybe you do, it just didn't come across.


----------



## vcoheda

let's just say, i disagree.


----------



## viggen

How about a million dollar violin... decoration for the rich? Degas or Van Gogh?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viggen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about a million dollar violin... decoration for the rich? Degas or Van Gogh?_

 

Exactly the same, while you play the million dollar violin, you hear the violin from a different prespective as while you listen them payed by another person, as you are behind the instrument, in most of the cases the sound is not really fully appreciated by the musician rather by the live audience (we all know that for a recording is a waste of time and money given the limitations of those, you will never here the full potentical of an Stradivarius for example, in a recording, and it will sound the same as a yamaha violin) so they are gotten in most of the case for vanity reasons, nor for sound reasons...same as the paintings, you do not need a Van Gogh home, and BTW some of them I will never put in my house not even if they pay me for hanging them here, as they look really horrible to me...aesthetics is very personal...


----------



## markl

Quote:


 Ok well I'll come out and say it. This company is an absolute fraud. There is absolutely no purpose in spending $13,000 on any cable, ever. Good cables certainly make a difference, but there are cable companies that make superb cables for 98% less than that.

 And here's the icing on the cake:
 Reason 1) "Through December 21, all cables 50% off!" If a cable was really worth $13,000 and cost even half of that to make, they wouldn't be selling it for half price, ever.
 Reason 2) They will give you a "full price paid for" trade-in upgrade on any Virtual Dynamics cables you have bought. All products lose value over time because better products come out to replace them, and cables are no exception. So they can't obviously resell these cables for their original selling price. And no business is in business to lose money. Therefore, their cables aren't worth a fraction of what they sell for. 
 

 With all due respect IpodPJ, why is it seemingly every single youngster who posts here labors under the idea that a product's cost is simply the cost of materials to build it? What about paying all your employees? What about paying for all the equipment? What about paying for your facilities? What about paying for product development? What about the cost of taking it to market? What about advertising costs? And on and on...

 You need to know that standard industry practice when you buy any component, is that the distributor is taking roughly 100% margin on everything you buy. If you buy a $1000 amp, generally speaking it cost the distributor $500 to buy it. A rip-off? Well, what about the distributors employees, overhead, facilities, etc.? You have to pay for all that stuff and it is figured into the cost of everything you buy.

 If you were a business and you charged materials cost plus 10% on everything you sold, gues what, you'd be bankrupt almost immediately.

 VD has distributors, they can't undercut, so if we make some logical assumptions, they set their own direct list price at double the cost of the distributor's wholesale cost. So when they have a half-off sale, they are likely selling at roughly their distributor's cost.

 But why would they do that? To prove their products cost much less than they sell for? No! It's called *marketing* and confidence in what you sell. It's called a "loss leader". Some VD noob decides to take a chance on one of their cables now that it's half off. He gets it home, flips out and loves it, and guess what-- he goes back to buy a bunch more after the sale is over. Now he's a lifetime VD buyer, upgrading with every revision.

 And you think you'd call it "great customer service" when VD offers you FULL TRADE-IN VALUE on every cable of theirs you buy from them if you want to upgrade in the future. What a deal! Why aren't you applauding that? Who else does something like that? But why do they do it? Marketing. rather than have their customers go out and sell their old VD cord on Audiogon at a loss, give them full retail value so they are compelled to come back to VD and stay in the VD family. Smart, smart, smart....

 When you go to the grocercy store and see "buy one box of Cheerios, get one free", where's your outrage at General Mills? After all, they've been "ripping you off" for each single box you bought before the sale...


----------



## Sovkiller

Mark dealer profits are far less than 50%, usually in the range of 20-30, also consider that they are selling online, not by dealers, that cut a lot of people and middle men, and in the last case, we do not "have to" pay for the marketing, just get the stuff from others that do not spend all that moeny on that, and period....

 The trade in another fraud, they are trading a cable or 300 for one of 500, none of the two cost that much, and you are getting ripped twice....


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all due respect IpodPJ, why is it seemingly every single youngster who posts here labors under the idea that a product's cost is simply the cost of materials to build it? What about paying all your employees? What about paying for all the equipment? What about paying for your facilities? What about paying for product development? What about the cost of taking it to market? What about advertising costs? And on and on...

 You need to know that standard industry practice when you buy any component, is that the distributor is taking roughly 100% margin on everything you buy. If you buy a $1000 amp, generally speaking it cost the distributor $500 to buy it. A rip-off? Well, what about the distributors employees, overhead, facilities, etc.? You have to pay for all that stuff and it is figured into the cost of everything you buy.

 If you were a business and you charged materials cost plus 10% on everything you sold, gues what, you'd be bankrupt almost immediately.

 VD has distributors, they can't undercut, so if we make some logical assumptions, they set their own direct list price at double the cost of the distributor's wholesale cost. So when they have a half-off sale, they are likely selling at roughly their distributor's cost.

 But why would they do that? To prove their products cost much less than they sell for? No! It's called *marketing* and confidence in what you sell. It's called a "loss leader". Some VD noob decides to take a chance on one of their cables now that it's half off. He gets it home, flips out and loves it, and guess what-- he goes back to buy a bunch more after the sale is over. Now he's a lifetime VD buyer, upgrading with every revision.

 And you think you'd call it "great customer service" when VD offers you FULL TRADE-IN VALUE on every cable of theirs you buy from them if you want to upgrade in the future. What a deal! Why aren't you applauding that? Who else does something like that? But why do they do it? Marketing. rather than have their customers go out and sell their old VD cord on Audiogon at a loss, give them full retail value so they are compelled to come back to VD and stay in the VD family. Smart, smart, smart....

 When you go to the grocercy store and see "buy one box of Cheerios, get one free", where's your outrage at General Mills? After all, they've been "ripping you off" for each single box you bought before the sale..._

 

You didn't understand his point at all. 

 Also, research and development are next to nil on these things. Since they often just buy from a manufacturer and put their logo on it.

 If you think these companies have facilities to actually produce their own cables, especially with their claims of how they are special made, your delusional.


----------



## markl

Quote:


 If you think these companies have facilities to actually produce their own cables, especially with their claims of how they are special made, your delusional. 
 

 It's amazing how almost everything you type is wrong. I half suspect you are a hoax.


----------



## markl

Quote:


 Mark dealer profits are far less than 50%, usually in the range of 20-30, also consider that they are selling online, not by dealers, 
 

 That may be your particular arrangement with your people, but I've been told time and time again by people in the business, mark up is typically 100%.

 And VD sell both on-line and through dealers, here are their dealers:

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=131


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That may be your particular arrangement with your people, but I've been told time and time again by people in the business, mark up is typically 100%.

 And VD sell both on-line and through dealers, here are their dealers:

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=131_

 

50% dealer profit IS a 100% markup.


----------



## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LawnGnome* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_50% dealer profit IS a 100% markup._

 

Did you read what Sovkiller wrote? He is suggesting that it is *not* 50% profit and is more like 20-30%. Reading comprehension is just as important as basic math.


----------



## viggen

Cables are generally priced the same as accessories in dealers, 100% mark up.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you're not acting like a know it all, then i guess you are just being a **** - no "offense" though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for every product - source, amp, phones, cables -, some people will say it is not worth the price, no matter how much it is. i'm sure some people think the odins are worth their price or the VD cords. would i personally spend a few thousand on a cable. no. but that's because it doesn't fit in my budget. if i had matching components at that price, i may. can i categorically state that expensive cables are not worth it. no. because i haven't heard them._

 

Agreed. And I never said that cables weren't "worth" their asking price to many rich consumers out there. Obviously, worth is a relative term and that extra 0.0001% of sonic difference may be worth the extra $13,000 to those who have the budget to dump that kind of money into a hobby. What I said is that Virtual Dynamics is a fraud in my opinion based on their sales verbage. I never said their cables were garbage.

 Like someone mentioned, there are more electronics that go into a $200 cell phone than high-end audio components.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


 That may be your particular arrangement with your people, but I've been told time and time again by people in the business, mark up is typically 100%.

 And VD sell both on-line and through dealers, here are their dealers:

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=131 
 

I do not know of any item in high-end audio that can give you one dollar per dollar invested, unless gotten in special sales or arrangement, factory closings, etc...sorry but that is not true at all...not sure who told you that, but whomever was, was bluffing big time, not even the big stores...get that much...about the dealers, I know they sell also by dealers, but we were talking of the online prices, I have no clue how much a dealer is willing to make, and maybe their prices are a little lower, see the case of NSL and Edition 9, they were willing to make only a few bux on the UE9, just to promote other items...


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know of any item in high-end audio that can give you one dollar per dollar invested, unless gotten in special sales or arrangement, factory closings, etc...sorry but that is not true at all...not sure who told you that, but whomever was, was bluffing big time, not even the big stores...get that much...about the dealers, I know they sell also by dealers, but we were talking of the online prices, I have no clue how much a dealer is willing to make, and maybe their prices are a little lower, see the case of NSL and Edition 9, they were willing to make only a few bux on the UE9, just to promote other items..._

 

50 points on just about any electronic device is NORMAL. That is, 1 dollar at the wholesale = 2 dollars retail. You're not taking into consideration absolute price points, product sturtures and the much larger markets of low to mid level consumer electronics. your beloved edition 9's are a niche within a niche, and by no means representative of a standard retail consumer electronics pricing structure.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_50 points on just about any electronic device is NORMAL. That is, 1 dollar at the wholesale = 2 dollars retail. You're not taking into consideration absolute price points, product sturtures and the much larger markets of low to mid level consumer electronics. your beloved edition 9's are a niche within a niche, and by no means representative of a standard retail consumer electronics pricing structure._

 

Did you read my post completelly, before jumping and posting, I wrote high- end audio, not general electronic devices, a shaver maybe can give you 1 dollar per dollar, a vacum cleaner maybe, a toaster, but high-end audio markup is not that high, and if you want to beleive so, that is Ok with me, and so be it...But I know a few store owners, and a few guys in other stores of high end audio, non of them get that much...I'm 100% convinced of that, believe what you want...man...


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you read my post completelly, before jumping and posting, I wrote high- end audio, not general electronic devices, a shaver maybe can give you 1 dollar per dollar, a vacum cleaner maybe, a toaster, but high-end audio markup is not that high, and if you want to beleive so, that is Ok with me, and so be it...But I know a few store owners, and a few guys in other stores of high end audio, non of them get that much...I'm 100% convinced of that, believe what you want...man...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nor am I speaking of electric razors. 20-30 points on a $5000 CDP is high in some shops. 50 points on a $10,000 CDP is low for others. There is no absolute, but 50 points is a typical starting point for establishing a manufacturer's suggested markup. Markups have more to do with volume, overhead and pricing structures than whether a specific manufacturer is scamming anyone because copper or a specific plug (by your estimation) is so cheap.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all due respect IpodPJ, why is it seemingly every single youngster who posts here labors under the idea that a product's cost is simply the cost of materials to build it? What about paying all your employees? What about paying for all the equipment? What about paying for your facilities? What about paying for product development? What about the cost of taking it to market? What about advertising costs? And on and on..._

 

Mark, you know I respect you and your opinions. We have conversed on a few threads already. But I have to disagree with you here, and it isn't a matter of being a "youngster" (although I wish I still felt like one). I've been in business for myself for some time now (and in the past with a partner) so I know all about the operational expenses of a business.

 The fact is that no amount of overhead (unless you do your manufacturing in the Taj Mahal) will ever justify a $13,000 cable. It is purely a boutique item. If what you said were true, why isn't Monster Cable charging several thousand per meter?

  Quote:


 You need to know that standard industry practice when you buy any component, is that the distributor is taking roughly 100% margin on everything you buy. If you buy a $1000 amp, generally speaking it cost the distributor $500 to buy it. A rip-off? Well, what about the distributors employees, overhead, facilities, etc.? You have to pay for all that stuff and it is figured into the cost of everything you buy. 
 

Actually, I'd agree with you there. But in some cases, they might even be paying less. It came as a shock to me that when I received my Corda Opera it was only insured for 150 Euros. So either he is making a 400% - 500% markup on the amps or he just figures they rarely get lost in the mail so why spend the extra. Regardless, the amp is certainly worth the $1100 I paid for it. But I wasn't referring to "worth." Obviously these cables are worth $13,000 to the rich people who can afford them. (See my post prior to this one.)

  Quote:


 If you were a business and you charged materials cost plus 10% on everything you sold, gues what, you'd be bankrupt almost immediately. 
 

In the printing business, often we can only make 10% on a job because the industry has been over run by gang-run shops who would sell their mothers for a nickel. It's sad really, because it has hurt the entire industry and consequently decreased our income.

  Quote:


 VD has distributors, they can't undercut, so if we make some logical assumptions, they set their own direct list price at double the cost of the distributor's wholesale cost. So when they have a half-off sale, they are likely selling at roughly their distributor's cost. 
 

Okay. Could be. Then their distributors are getting the shaft, too, in my opinion. How many $13,000 cables do you think they are going to sell on an annual basis? I'd almost guarantee you that these companies don't pay VD upfront for their cables. Who can afford to let a $13,000 cable sit on a shelf?

  Quote:


 But why would they do that? To prove their products cost much less than they sell for? No! It's called *marketing* and confidence in what you sell. It's called a "loss leader". Some VD noob decides to take a chance on one of their cables now that it's half off. He gets it home, flips out and loves it, and guess what-- he goes back to buy a bunch more after the sale is over. Now he's a lifetime VD buyer, upgrading with every revision. 
 

Yes, I suppose I could eventually find someone who would pay me $2,000 for my used toilet paper. But would that be ethical? No. It would be tantamount to fraud.

  Quote:


 And you think you'd call it "great customer service" when VD offers you FULL TRADE-IN VALUE on every cable of theirs you buy from them if you want to upgrade in the future. What a deal! Why aren't you applauding that? Who else does something like that? But why do they do it? Marketing. rather than have their customers go out and sell their old VD cord on Audiogon at a loss, give them full retail value so they are compelled to come back to VD and stay in the VD family. Smart, smart, smart.... 
 

Ok, good point. I guess I just don't see too many customers buying several $13,000 cables in their lifetime. But what do I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 When you go to the grocercy store and see "buy one box of Cheerios, get one free", where's your outrage at General Mills? After all, they've been "ripping you off" for each single box you bought before the sale... 
 

I never said things like that don't bother me. The difference is that I need fiber in my diet. I don't need fiber optics.


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's amazing how almost everything you type is wrong. I half suspect you are a hoax._

 


 So you actually beleive these companies have the facilities to actually produce wire, jacket it, produce the different connectors, and assemble it?

 You are more naive that I thought. Do you even know what sort of financial start up that would require?

 They buy the wire/cable and connectors from manufacturers, and pay to have their brand put on it. 

 There is NOTHING special about it at all.

 I hope you realize that many fancy RCA connectors and the likes, you can actually find the unbranded versions from the manufacturers.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nor am I speaking of electric razors. 20-30 points on a $5000 CDP is high in some shops. 50 points on a $10,000 CDP is low for others. There is no absolute, but 50 points is a typical starting point for establishing a manufacturer's suggested markup. Markups have more to do with volume, overhead and pricing structures than whether a specific manufacturer is scamming anyone because copper or a specific plug (by your estimation) is so cheap._

 

What kind of volume do you think a dealer can afford to order from a 10,000 or a 50,000 CDP player, maybe one or two, and period, what kind of discount they can receive based on two units??? BTW high end audio usually do not have too middlemen involved in the process, and it is usually a manufacturer/dealer relationship and period...maybe a distributor if in another country, and that's it...


----------



## IPodPJ

What I find amazing is how many of these companies won't provide test specs of their cable. They all say "This one is better than that one" when what they mean to say is "this one colors the sound in a different way than that one." Show me some signal tests taken from the output jack of the source and then again at the end of the cable length. The company that yields nearly identical results from both tests is the one I'd buy from.

 And if you think you're going to get higher accuracy from a boutique $13,000 cable than a well built, well shielded $100 cable from a reliable, honest company, you're fooling yourself. What you will get for $13,000 is different sonic coloration, though.

 But hey, if Eric Estrada can sell you a piece of land on Mars, I'm sure Joe V.D. can convince you to buy a $13,000 cable.


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LawnGnome* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I hope you realize that many fancy RCA connectors and the likes, you can actually find the unbranded versions from the manufacturers._

 

Please tell me where to find a 1m Cardas Golden Reference that is unbranded. I'd love to save the dough. Thanks!


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of volume do you think a dealer can afford to order from a 10,000 or a 50,000 CDP player, maybe one or two, and period, what kind of discount they can receive based on two units??? BTW high end audio usually do not have too middlemen involved in the process, and it is usually a manufacturer/dealer relationship and period...maybe a distributor if in another country, and that's it..._

 

Sound by Singer Experts in the world of High End Audio and Video

 have you ever been there? it's in your neighborhood.


----------



## LawnGnome

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yotacowboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please tell me where to find a 1m Cardas Golden Reference that is unbranded. I'd love to save the dough. Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe your a bit slow, or trying to seem that way.

 But I said all they do is ASSEMBLE the components together. 

 Your implying that I said they just rebrand other products, in this case a whole interconnect. Which I did not say.


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LawnGnome* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe your a bit slow, or trying to seem that way.

 But I said all they do is ASSEMBLE the components together. 

 Your implying that I said they just rebrand other products, in this case a whole interconnect. Which I did not say._

 

well then, more specifically: can you please show me where to buy:

 a set of 4 RCA's that Cardas rebrands and uses with their Golden Reference IC's.

 2 meters of cable which Cardas rebrands and uses with thier Golden Reference IC's.

 You could probably call up Cardas and ask them where they are sourcing their unbranded RCA's and cable from.


----------



## viggen

LOL yota I know how you feel.

 And, I wonder which store has higher mark ups... Bob's Shaver Emporium or Definitive Sound Enchantment.

 In high end stores such as Sound by Singer...

 Speakers generally have 35-60 points.
 Sources generally 25-50 points.
 Amps generally 25-40 points.
 Cables generally 75-120 points.

 I don't know the points for electric shavers but Fry's Electronics, where I bought my last shaver, probably has less points. But, lets not talk about electric shavers. I bet Gillette replacement blades have the highest mark ups of all.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viggen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know the points for electric shavers but Fry's Electronics, where I bought my last shaver, probably has less points. But, lets not talk about electric shavers. I bet Gillette replacement blades have the highest mark ups of all._

 

Tell me about it. The Sensor Excel was the best one they ever made. I typically like to buy them at Costco because they are almost half the price of the supermarkets. At Costco you get 20 blades for about $20, but in the market you get 10 blades for about the same price.


----------



## pompon

Show me AMP A is better to AMP B with his technical sheet ... 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Show me some signal tests taken from the output jack of the source and then again at the end of the cable length._


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell me about it. The Sensor Excel was the best one they ever made. I typically like to buy them at Costco because they are almost half the price of the supermarkets. At Costco you get 20 blades for about $20, but in the market you get 10 blades for about the same price._

 


 Sensor excel was not an *electric* shaver the last time I checked....


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sensor excel was not an *electric* shaver the last time I checked....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope, it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But electric shavers suck.

 And did you know there's an entire forum that looks exactly like Head-Fi called "Badger And Blade" completely devoted to wet shaving? I came across it one day.


----------



## viggen

I bought a Norelco and used it for 10 years with no problemo until it fell apart last year. I bought another Norelco last year, and the damn thing is twice as expensive, shaves only half as well, and it broke after a month. I then bought a Braun, and the damn thing is loud and practically gave my wrist carpal tunnel because it vibrates like a MF. I returned it. I am using CVS brand replaceable blade shavers now.

 I saw Corey Greenberg pitching some nice old fashion razor blade shavers on NBC some years ago. I think it's something I might get into if I weren't so scared of sharp objects.


----------



## IPodPJ

Well, normally I would say this thread has gone off topic but the current topic has more value than a $13,000 cable, imo.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

So. Speaking of pandas...


----------



## markl

Quote:


 The fact is that no amount of overhead (unless you do your manufacturing in the Taj Mahal) will ever justify a $13,000 cable. It is purely a boutique item. If what you said were true, why isn't Monster Cable charging several thousand per meter? 
 

 Volume. Obviously, if you sell cables in the tens of thousands per month (and build them in China), rather than thousands per month, you can get by with lower margin. A boutique outfit like VD sells far fewer so there is obviously a need for more margin on each cable.

 There's another aspect of "value" that people always forget. I can be walking along a riverbank, bend down and pick up a gold nugget. What did it cost me "make" this product? Nothing. What is it? It's just a lump of metal, serves no inherent function other than it's shiny and hypnotizes women.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, should I be stoned in the public square for expecting full market value for it? Of course not.

 Without regard to what the VD cables actually cost to make (plus all their fixed costs for operating a business), in the marketplace of cables in general (with whom all the same people who are so upset in this thread will also have to have a problem, not just VD), they are a tremendous value. People like me wouldn't keep going back, if they didn't feel the benefits they get from them weren't worth the asking price. Invent a better mouse trap, and you can charge more than the next guy because it's more effective and offers better performance.

 How much do you think it costs Sennheiser to build a HD650 (forgetting about fixed costs as everyone here seems to like to do)? It's a hunk of plastic and some velour. $40? You know it's probably less than that? Where's the outrage there?

 These criticisms of cables and cable builders also always seem to come fromh people who have lower-end systems that would hardly benefit from a cable swap in the first place. You have to realize that there are people out there with systems for whom a $1000 cable is in proportion to the rest of their gear. It may be outrageous on your little DAC and credit card sized amp, but not in theirs. You are sneering at products not made for you or your system and that would be ridiculous if you put them in there.

 If all there were was $100 sound cards and $100 amps, then hell ya, $1000 exotic cables would be absurd.


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These criticisms of cables and cable builders also always seem to come fromh people who have lower-end systems that would hardly benefit from a cable swap in the first place. You have to realize that there are people out there with systems for whom a $1000 cable is in proportion to the rest of their gear. It may be outrageous on your little DAC and credit card sized amp, but not in theirs. You are sneering at products not made for you or your system and that would be ridiculous if you put them in there.

 If all there were was $100 sound cards and $100 amps, then hell ya, $1000 exotic cables would be absurd._

 

HERE HERE!!!

 This specific forum is getting absurd with regards to know-it-all skeptics thread crapping on a regular basis. The amount of USEFUL and PERTINENT information about the benefits and shortfalls of cables and other tweaks for those who feel confident that they have HEARD differences is dwindling because of it. Live and let live, from both sides of the debate! I suggest to those that believe that cables make no audible difference, that racks and vibration control devices are worthless, that ANYTHING outside the tiny sphere of existence encompassing a couple headphones, a sound card or two and possibly an amplifier are utterly non-sensical, TAKE OFF YOUR HEADPHONES, meet some new people, and perhaps TRY some different equipment with an open mind.

 Science is NOT a collection of truths. Science is a means to test theories that attempt explain the natural world around us. These skeptical, troglodytic tendencies which hide behind a wall of impenetrable scientific "proof" are laughable! Y'all need to get out a little bit, and smell the roses!


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These criticisms of cables and cable builders also always seem to come fromh people who have lower-end systems that would hardly benefit from a cable swap in the first place. You have to realize that there are people out there with systems for whom a $1000 cable is in proportion to the rest of their gear. It may be outrageous on your little DAC and credit card sized amp, but not in theirs. You are sneering at products not made for you or your system and that would be ridiculous if you put them in there.

 If all there were was $100 sound cards and $100 amps, then hell ya, $1000 exotic cables would be absurd._

 

x2. i said the same a few pages ago.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ How much do you think it costs Sennheiser to build a HD650 (forgetting about fixed costs as everyone here seems to like to do)? It's a hunk of plastic and some velour. $40? You know it's probably less than that? Where's the outrage there?_

 

To be fair, there has always been 'discussions' about Grado's pricing structures, so there is outrage when we feel that a headphone company is suckering us. And however you look at it, a headphone is more complex and harder to make than power cords, I'm pretty sure that Sennheiser makes less profit on the $300 HD650 than VD makes on the $300 power cord.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These criticisms of cables and cable builders also always seem to come fromh people who have lower-end systems that would hardly benefit from a cable swap in the first place._

 

Classic.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


 How much do you think it costs Sennheiser to build a HD650 (forgetting about fixed costs as everyone here seems to like to do)? It's a hunk of plastic and some velour. $40? You know it's probably less than that? Where's the outrage there? 
 

Far more than a power cable for sure...and the benefits you get from going from an stock earbud to the HD650, are far more noticeable that while you go from stock cable to a boutique cable (if in this case there is any)...

  Quote:


 These criticisms of cables and cable builders also always seem to come fromh people who have lower-end systems that would hardly benefit from a cable swap in the first place. You have to realize that there are people out there with systems for whom a $1000 cable is in proportion to the rest of their gear. It may be outrageous on your little DAC and credit card sized amp, but not in theirs. You are sneering at products not made for you or your system and that would be ridiculous if you put them in there. 
 

Not always, but if you simply think a little bit, if changing a power cable would make a difference in the power supply that will feed any equipment at all, then the worst the PSU is, the more prone to get benefits from it, don't you think, as the filtering is worst? So paradoxically there is a contradiction here. Also think that there are hundreds of equipments non audio related in which the performance of the PSU, and the AC noise, are far more critical and will indeed make a difference, and you can ask to see if the way to eliminate them is just changing the power cord, that will be ideal, as a power cord will be cheaper than any good design on a more complicated PSU, but this is not the way, simple as that...


----------



## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Far more than a power cable for sure..._

 

Please provide some empirical data to back up this claim! Or are you just guessing? Have you made any cables lately? Have you priced copper? UPOCC? What about silver? 4N, 6N?? What about some Oyaide ends? How much are those?

 Do you happen to know the total cost in parts of a pair of Senn 650's?


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## viggen

Yah I think he got us there. Because you have a more dramatic change when upgrading from earbuds to HD650s than going from stock powercords to aftermarket ones, aftermarket powercords are a sham.


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are sneering at products not made for you or your system and that would be ridiculous if you put them in there._

 

Obviously you haven't read my posts or you wouldn't have made a comment about a "credit card sized amp." I haven't used a portable system in quite some time. And if I didn't think a cable upgrade would make a difference, I wouldn't have just purchased one. But there is a certain point at which the benefits will never justify the asking price. And in this instance, the asking price is absurd and the company is scamming people.

 I know cables make a difference. I have continually said they do. But we are not talking about a $100 cable or even a $1000 cable as you just posted. We were talking about a $13,000 cable. If you truly believe that a $13,000 cable will sound that much better than a well built $500 cable from a company who doesn't feel a need to give someone the shaft, then by all means waste your money. I couldn't ever see justifying that kind of price difference for extremely minimal sonic differences no matter how wealthy I was. Like I said before, I would rather put all the components in one box and hardwire them together. It would sound even better and cost a whole lot less.

 I guess the difference between you and I is that I will never feel a need to flaunt a boutique cable to my friends. In most circles, people wouldn't be impressed that you spent $13,000 on a cable -- they would think you ought to be locked up in a straight jacket.

 Anyway, my neighbor is going to be lending me a $600 digital cable tonight or tomorrow. I am going to compare it to my new $55 cable and post my honest impressions. I was completely shocked at how much impact my $55 cable had over my $5 cable, not expecting to hear any audible differences in a digital cable. So it would be ignorant for me to say I won't hear any benefits from a $600 cable over my $55 one. But if I don't, it will prove that good companies like Cobalt can produce just as good a product for a lot less, although I'm sure some will just say "your equipment isn't good enough so you won't hear a difference," which of course is just a way for them to justify their $13,000 cable purchase. If a product is better, you will be able to hear the difference in any chain, even if source A isn't as good as source B. I have listened to quite a few high-end speaker systems to know this.


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## pompon

To be more positive : 

 I have in order 2 x Master 3 and 1 x Nite 3 power cord for all my gear (CD, DAC and amp).

 What you have in order ?


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be more positive : 

 I have in order 2 x Master 3 and 1 x Nite 3 power cord for all my gear (CD, DAC and amp).

 What you have in order ?_

 

that's a whole lotta virtual dynamic. i guess the power3 really made an impression on you.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

QUOTE=yotacowboy;3471280]Please provide some empirical data to back up this claim! Or are you just guessing? Have you made any cables lately? Have you priced copper? UPOCC? What about silver? 4N, 6N?? What about some Oyaide ends? How much are those?

 Do you happen to know the total cost in parts of a pair of Senn 650's?[/QUOTE]

 Seriously?


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_QUOTE=yotacowboy;3471280]Please provide some empirical data to back up this claim! Or are you just guessing? Have you made any cables lately? Have you priced copper? UPOCC? What about silver? 4N, 6N?? What about some Oyaide ends? How much are those?

 Do you happen to know the total cost in parts of a pair of Senn 650's?_

 

Seriously? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/QUOTE]

 well, yeah, he said he knew that the cost of power cords were less than the cost of an HD650. what can i say... I'm skeptical of his opinion!


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## markl

Quote:


 I guess the difference between you and I is that I will never feel a need to flaunt a boutique cable to my friends. 
 

 Yes, I like to flaunt my VD Nite 3.0 power cord down at the club. I wrap it around my neck like a silver python. All the chicks flock to me because they knows I got mad bling bling.


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## bhd812

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I like to flaunt my VD Nite 3.0 power cord down at the club. I wrap it around my neck like a silver python. All the chicks flock to me because they knows I got mad bling bling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

omg I need to try that!!! thanks man and i will send you pics of the after party!!!


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## yotacowboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bhd812* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_omg I need to try that!!! thanks man and i will send you pics of the after party!!!_

 

as long as you take some measurements, and provide some objective feedback...


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## vcoheda

anyone else going to take advantage of the 50 percent off offer from virtual dynamics. it ends the 21st of this month.

 i need a new pair of RCAs, so i am thinking about getting something.


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone else going to take advantage of the 50 percent off offer from virtual dynamics. it ends the 21st of this month.

 i need a new pair of RCAs, so i am thinking about getting something._

 



 I would like to.. 

 But I'm not that thrilled with the P3-PC yet either.. I'm hoping it comes to life in the upcoming weeks with some more burn-in.


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## vcoheda

i have some unused cables. if i sell them, the vd cord would basically pay for itself. thinking about a david rca (1m). we'll see. still a few days to decide.

 btw, where are you using the power3. i prefer it on my amp over my cd player.


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have some unused cables. if i sell them, the vd cord would basically pay for itself. thinking about a david rca (1m). we'll see. still a few days to decide.

 btw, where are you using the power3. i prefer it on my amp over my cd player._

 


 If you buy the "refurbished" line, you can get the David 1M IC's even cheaper.. I've seen a pair from VD directly for $310 for a pair. 


 I'm using it on my amp. My CDP uses some "standard" cable, not interchangeable. But I will be getting the Music Hall 25.2 CDP next.


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## Audio Addict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have some unused cables. if i sell them, the vd cord would basically pay for itself. thinking about a david rca (1m). we'll see. still a few days to decide.

 btw, where are you using the power3. i prefer it on my amp over my cd player._

 

If you didn't notice on AudiogoN, Virtual Dynamics is running a 50% XMAS sale through the 21st.


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## vcoheda

lol!

 that's what were talking about.


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## Akathisia

apparently we have an employee of virtual dynamics on the forum...


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## vcoheda

^^^ who are you referring to?


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^ who are you referring to?_

 


 I don't know.. LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 It's not like this is a secret....







 -Nick


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## Akathisia

Sorry, he didn't post in this thread. I saw a new member whose profile shows _virtualdynamics.ca_ as his homepage. His name and signature are a bit telling, I wonder if he will show up here.

 Edit : I read back through this thread, apparently there were a few suspicious posts from low post-count members touting VD cables. Not surprising I guess.


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## markl

So, the one guy who you've identified as a staff member of Virtual Dynamics (which he/she has not attempted to hide by listing it as their home page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) has not posted in this thread, but that clearly indicates there are a lot of shills in here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I have news for you, VD is well aware of Head-Fi, and discussion of their products on this board as well as any and all of the other audio boards out there. So are almost all manufacturers of gear that are discussed here and elsewhere. It's part of their business to know what's being buzzed about. Why would you be surprised about that? All the major amp builders post here all the time every day.

 OMG, the whole site is riddled with industry insiders! The horror, the horror...


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## swt61

And furthermore who cares if they're monitoring our discussions. I for one think it's a smart idea for them to do so, especially if they are tayloring their products to our wants. 
 The most important thing is how the product performs, and as I stated earlier mine hadn't even had proper burn in time and I was very impressed with it.
 I should be back home the day after Christmas with all my new toys waiting for me. I'll have much more to say about the cord then, and I plan to do a few direct comparisons to some of my other power cords.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Akathisia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit : I read back through this thread, apparently there were a few suspicious posts from low post-count members touting VD cables. Not surprising I guess._

 

okay. i'll come clean. i'm a secret operative from virtual dynamics, code named wattgate 320i. my mission was simple. to infiltrate head-fi, be accepted as one of their own, which i have tried to do over the years by posting about various audio products (that i didn't even own) and going to meets. once i had gained a reasonable profile on the website, the plan was to introduce the power3 giveaway and subsequent 50 percent off sale, where i would tout their products as the best thing since the invention of the 300B tube amp and push others to buy virtual dynamics cords and cables. but now the jig is up, my cover blown. years of planning lost.


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay. i'll come clean. i'm a secret operative from virtual dynamics, code named wattgate 320i. my mission was simple. to infiltrate head-fi, be accepted as one of their own, which i have tried to do over the years by posting about various audio products (that i didn't even own) and going to meets. once i had gained a reasonable profile on the website, the plan was to introduce the power3 giveaway and subsequent 50 percent off sale, where i would tout their products as the best thing since the invention of the 300B tube amp and push others to buy virtual dynamics cords and cables. but now the jig is up, my cover blown. years of planning lost._

 


 LMAO. Good one...


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## vcoheda

^^ why are you laughing. i'm serious. years of planning ruined. i'll probably get fired from VD.


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## Akathisia

That cat looks a little too human for comfort.


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## bhjazz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Akathisia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That cat looks a little too human for comfort._

 

X2. Oh my. Imagine that thing staring at you in the morning...."Where's my damn Friskies, beeyotch?"


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## Akathisia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, the one guy who you've identified as a staff member of Virtual Dynamics (which he/she has not attempted to hide by listing it as their home page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) has not posted in this thread, but that clearly indicates there are a lot of shills in here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I have news for you, VD is well aware of Head-Fi, and discussion of their products on this board as well as any and all of the other audio boards out there. So are almost all manufacturers of gear that are discussed here and elsewhere. It's part of their business to know what's being buzzed about. Why would you be surprised about that? All the major amp builders post here all the time every day.

 OMG, the whole site is riddled with industry insiders! The horror, the horror... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Sorry, that comment wasn't meant to be taken in a negative light. I just thought it was interesting that we saw flaky posts from low post members about how good VD is, and there is a member who may be a real VD employee.

 I used to do marketing for a Porsche engine builder and a good chunk of my job was browsing and posting in forums. I made sure to be a part of every discussion that involved our products and services. I am surprised no one that works for VD has spoken here, many of the other manufacturers will pipe up in ling threads about there product. I think it's better for business to give out some info, then to let trolls slam your product for 42 pages. The trolls seem to steer clear of threads that have a MoT post in them, about the product they sell.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bhjazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Where's my damn Friskies, beeyotch?"_

 

Too funny! That's exactly what you'd expect from him with that face.


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## radz

double post


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## radz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay. i'll come clean. i'm a secret operative from virtual dynamics, code named wattgate 320i._

 

Just don't go whistle blower on me agent wattgate 320i we know where you live and VD head quarters have your family.

 I'm a low post user who has made afew commects in this thread so I think my cover is compromised. Evac.Evac.

 Seriously though as a winner of the cable I'm pretty happy I was made aware of the giveaway.

 I was over the moon to win something but next time I wish they would throw in shipping also because the $75 to AUS was abit of a dampener of my big win.


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## chesebert

sigh...I had given in to the 50% sale! 2x power 1 on their way.


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## Sovkiller

It seems that they will never send me the cable... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...they are reserved only for some of the believers I think...


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems that they will never send me the cable... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...they are reserved only for some of the believers I think... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

<----------- Non-believe made believer...


 When you get yours, you can kindly send it my way...


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<----------- Non-believe made believer...


 When you get yours, you can kindly send it my way... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well not so fast, maybe I'll change my mind about powercords after trying that one....


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well not so fast, maybe I'll change my mind about powercords after trying that one.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Give it a try.. you might be surprised. Shipping from Canda to FL was about 5 business days. Didn't take long at all to arrive here..


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give it a try.. you might be surprised. Shipping from Canda to FL was about 5 business days. Didn't take long at all to arrive here.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I will, if they send me one...I was in the special giveaway, and even if they do not make any difference, I will keep it, unless they sound worst...


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## Akathisia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I will, if they send me one...I was in the special giveaway, and even if they do not make any difference, I will keep it, unless they sound worst... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 If it sounded the same as a plain jane cable, why wouldn't you sell it to a head-fi'er who might enjoy it?


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## Acoustic Chef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_be advised, they are extremely stiff and heavy, and may levitate some light-weight components off the rack. You also need at least an extra foot over a normal cord to get it to bend to fit into your space. You'll also need enough room between your component and the wall to achieve a 90 degre bend._

 


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f97/mans-cable-281585/


 Should I call you Markilina from now on?


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## 0roo0roo

lol this thread needs to be archived as audiophile epic fail
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 why stop at the power cord?
 a hundred dollar audiophile receptacle seems in order.
 perhaps some audiophile grade wiring to the circuit breaker as well.


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## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *0roo0roo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why stop at the power cord?
 a hundred dollar audiophile receptacle seems in order.
 perhaps some audiophile grade wiring to the circuit breaker as well._

 

I have personally met some contractor audiophiles that have gone that far. Honestly guys, powercords do have an effect it seems. After asking a few of my engineering buddies at the school, many have heard of research about the effects microvibrations have on a power system. Its interesting stuff.

 Maybe cables like the VD Power 3 don't only provide "dynamic shielding", but also work as an vibration absorbing weight that actually improves the power provided sound. This is where my logic goes fuzzy.


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