# HD800 replacement cable: ALO Reference 8 or SAA Endorphin?



## James

Hi,
   
  I must be looking for this in the wrong way because for the life of me I can't seem to find anyone who has directly compared an ALO Reference 8 (or 16, which I am auditioning now) with a StefanArt Endorphin HD800 cable, like [size=x-small]Robert Youman[/size] did on PFO. The ALO Ref 16 I currently have is a wonderful thing: I am driving my HD800 with the lovely Grace m903, which the ALO has proven conclusively is *not* the source of brightness (the stock HD800 cable is, and to a lesser extent, the m903's crossfeed circuit). However, the ALO cable improves on the HD800's character rather than modifying it, and the change I'm looking for is to bring some life into the midrange. The HD800 is a bit laid-back in the upper-midrange to me and unfortunately the ALO cable doesn't change that.
   
  I've also tried a Moon Audio Black Dragon which is very musical and really brings forward the midrange, but it does so by rolling off the upper octaves so much that the sound seems constricted and, truthfully, _of lower volume_ than the ALO or even stock cable. In contrast, Cardas cable also rolls off the upper octaves, but much less so: it's main bugaboo to my ears is that it also brings out the bass and a bit too much of the lower treble, so the end result seems too "tweaked" to my ears. It actually sounds a bit like their Golden Reference speaker cables, which I had back when I owned Merlin speakers.
   
  Sorry, got off on a tangent there. Given what little I have read, the SAA Endorphins may give me back some of the midrange and overall timbre of instruments rather than just the air and treble "sheen" which is what the ALO Ref 16 has done. OTOH the PFO review says there was precious little difference between ALO and SAA Endorphin until the whole system was rewired with SAA cabling, which I don't plan to do (not much I can do with the M903 as digital source and amp anyway). I was hoping someone here with more sensitive ears could give better color on the comparison.
   
  Thanks,
  KJ


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## pigmode

Thanks for the impressions on the various cables. Seems like Double Helix should also be on your list, as most impressions I've seen fit your requirements.
   
  For myself I prefer the characteristics of silver for the HD800, and currently use HEADPHONELOUNGE wires, but  eventually plan try Double Helix's silver.


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## James

Quote: 





pigmode said:


> Thanks for the impressions on the various cables. Seems like Double Helix should also be on your list, as most impressions I've seen fit your requirements.
> 
> For myself I prefer the characteristics of silver for the HD800, and currently use HEADPHONELOUNGE wires, but  eventually plan try Double Helix's silver.


 


 Thanks, I had completely forgotten about Double Helix cables.
   
  I guess there aren't that many Endorphin owners to begin with ....


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## James

So it turns out I was lucky enough to get a demo 7-foot length of the Endorphins and just outright bought all three of the Moon Audio cables to try. I had five HD800 replacement cables in at once! (Including the ALO Reference 16).
   
  I will write more later, but in the meantime I left a short review on Moon Audio. I happen to go with the Black Dragons in the end -- to my surprise given my initial impressions above -- and as you'd expect the reason is more involved than is described on Moon Audio. The gist of it has to do whether you want to max out the HD800's inherent strengths or compensate for its weaknesses. The answer to that will largely determine your choice of cable.


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## dubselect

Thanks for the impressions! They are really useful for me. I will be waiting for more information.
   
  So, as I could undestand, if you want to max out HD800's strenghts, you should choose Endorphin or ALO?
  And if we are talking about compensation of their waknesses, the best way is to go with Black Dragon?


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## fradoca

you could also try the Norse cable by NorseAudio.
  Trevor is really a great and skilled guy.His cable is 22 awg pure up-occ.
  Drop him an email here : http://www.norseaudio.com/
   
  his prices are really really good and his customer support is second to none


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## pigmode

Quote: 





james said:


> So it turns out I was lucky enough to get a demo 7-foot length of the Endorphins and just outright bought all three of the Moon Audio cables to try. I had five HD800 replacement cables in at once! (Including the ALO Reference 16).


 


   
  Great review @ Moon. I'd be interested in your impressions of the Endorphins.
   
  For further reference to cables for the HD800, I am happy with my solid silver wires from Chris_Himself at HEADPHONELOUNGE.com. Great silver cables at reasonable prices.


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## NA Blur

Are you using the m903 as a DAC?  Are you feeding it via USB?  I think Wes Phillips noticed a change in the bass and perhaps brightness going from USB to optical.  I have not tested this myself.
   
  Here is the review Mr. Phillips did regarding the m902.  To my ears the m903 is very neutral sounding with a hint of brightness.  I am guessing you do not have your Ultra Desktop Amp any longer?  To my ears their gear has a much sweeter low end a tad less brightness.
   
  http://www.stereophile.com/content/grace-design-m902-reference-da-headphone-amplifier-wes-phillips-grace-m902
   
  I think Tyll Hertsens is looking into writing an article about headphone cables in the near future.  Keep an eye out for it over at InnerFidelity.com.


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## rb2013

James - I'm facing the same dilemma.  I've had my HD800 for several years now.  When I first got them, I did find them a bit hollow in the midrange, and a little brighter then I liked.  So I bought a cable from the infamous Warren Audio,  wow these really improved the sound.  Especially the transparency and tonal balance.
   
  I've had many high end systems over the last 20 years, trying many amps, pre-amps, speakers, numerous cabling, tweeks, etc.. culminating in a ridiculous $50K system in my main listening room (when I was flush with bucks in 2006).  Well, 2008 hit and I had to liquidate this amazing system, downsized my house, kept my nice sounding office system, and went for a really great headphone set-up in my listening room.  The point is - I think I have a pretty good grasp of what I want my audio to sound like...tonal neutrality, detail, transparency, wide dynamics, very wide and deep sound stage...but above all musicality.
   
  My current Headphone system is the amazing Woo Audio WA6-SE, upgraded caps, Synergistic Research power cord.  After 8 months of tube rolling every compatible tube set I could find, settled on some NOS Zenith 6EM7s and a 1958 NOS Mullard GZ34.  Driven by a custom tube DAC and music server. Nice set-up.
   
  Well the Warren Cable failed at the connector - out came the stock cable.  What a let down - back to the thin, bright sound!
   
  So I'm shopping for a new cable and have been trying to decide between the SAA Endorphin or the Cardas Clear.  The Cardas cable looks much studier then the SAA.  But sound wise?  Thanks for the review on Moon cable, I think it's between Black Dragons and the Endorphin.  Being that I have a tube amp, I can tweek it a bit with a different tube combination, but really want that transparency the SAAs offer.


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## Hipper

Looking at the Stefan Audio site, I notice he offers the Endorphin in a hard wired form (i.e. directly attached to the headphones) and also with shelless XLR connectors.
   
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Endorphin%20SennheiserHD800%20headphones%20Balanced%20WS.html
   
  Has anyone any experience of these two ideas, either with headphones or with audio generally?


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## bukitdamansara

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> James - I'm facing the same dilemma.  I've had my HD800 for several years now.  When I first got them, I did find them a bit hollow in the midrange, and a little brighter then I liked.  So I bought a cable from the infamous Warren Audio,  wow these really improved the sound.  Especially the transparency and tonal balance.
> 
> I've had many high end systems over the last 20 years, trying many amps, pre-amps, speakers, numerous cabling, tweeks, etc.. culminating in a ridiculous $50K system in my main listening room (when I was flush with bucks in 2006).  Well, 2008 hit and I had to liquidate this amazing system, downsized my house, kept my nice sounding office system, and went for a really great headphone set-up in my listening room.  The point is - I think I have a pretty good grasp of what I want my audio to sound like...tonal neutrality, detail, transparency, wide dynamics, very wide and deep sound stage...but above all musicality.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi rb2013
   
  Did you eventually settle for the SAAs? I'm seriously thinking about the getting the Endorphins for my HD800. Hope to hear from you.


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## quantx

Why is ALO soooo exp_*E*_nsive ?


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## Lenni

you mean expensive. yeah, way too expensive. better consider alternatives.


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## quantx

Quote: 





lenni said:


> you mean expensive. yeah, way too expensive. better consider alternatives.


 
  Which ones ?


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## Lenni

Toxic Cable
  or
  Headphone Lounge


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## quantx

I'm uneasy with buying sound stuff without listening beforehand. 
  But Headphone Lounge has reasonable pricing.


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## bearington

I have not had the pleasure of hearing the AOL cables, for the HD800. I did purchase the E-Series unbalanced cables. I took a chance, for all the great things I heard. AOL or SAA.  James is overloaded with work and has a huge back order, but patience, paid off.  
 Wow! The Frequency response was corrected, and believe it or not the stage was enhanced, with better isolation from each individual sound sources.
 HD800 is the type of headphones that bring out the very best and worse of all hardware. When you have a great source, and amp, they are amazing, but when matched with less then stellar hardware, there are many other headphones that are more forgiving. My source might be con traversal to some, I have been listening to my digitized source of music on my network, sourced by a SolidRun cubox-4pro computer, USB to a CM6631a USB to SPDIF, Corda Stage DAC (reclocked) to a Corda Classic. All the clocks have been upgraded to very very low Jitter TCXO and all the interconnects are Silver based cables.The SPDIF is also isolated and impedance matched. I am very happy with the sound reproduction from this rig. 
 One of my surprises was the Mono recording of Cannonball Adderley,  Somethin' Else, the mono recording presented greater depth with in the mono stage. I felt like I was in the bar, and wanted a bourbon, to go with the great sound I was hearing.  Female vocalists like Jane Monheit, Come dream with me, always sounded amazing, but all Vocal sibilance is gone. The playback was amazing. I felt like she was singing in front of me, just for me.  Beethoven 5 and 7th, Wiener Philharmoniker, Carlos Kleiber, sounded like a veil was removed, clarifying the placement of each instrument and the clarity was remarkable, my mouth was wide open, and my wife said something to me, so I gave her the HD800's and had to close her mouth too, sadly she wouldn't give me back my music!
 The SAAA cables are soft, comftable and labeled Endorphin. They are the E-series with connectors and are not hardwired. This is the E-series I purchased. I have fallen back in love with my HD800's. My next purchase will probably be a WA22 and SSA balanced cables.


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## nephilim32

Great thread. I've been so curious about the ALO series 16 HD 800 cable upgrade. I've done a few tweaks and upgrades to my sound chain and the only thing I haven't done is replaced the stock HD 800 cable. I must say its not bad, but I'm willing to go that extra refinement route for that 7 to 10% sound quality upgrade. I have a feeling replacing my 800 cable may work, but I know it will cost me to do it. The ALO cable is $1200+ U.S. 
it might be worth it though, especially for long term listening. I'm excited and I thank everyone on this thread for their insightful comments. It's a help indeed. Thank you. 
Also, I welcome any advice from any of you. I've been doing the research and so far the most trusted brands are Stephan Audio, toxic cables, cardas, moon audio, Norse, audio twag, nordost and my favourite right now from Ken Ball, ALO. It's a tough choice of which cable to purchase, but this is my last upgrade I need to do for a while.


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## zachchen1996

nephilim32 said:


> Great thread. I've been so curious about the ALO series 16 HD 800 cable upgrade. I've done a few tweaks and upgrades to my sound chain and the only thing I haven't done is replaced the stock HD 800 cable. I must say its not bad, but I'm willing to go that extra refinement route for that 7 to 10% sound quality upgrade. I have a feeling replacing my 800 cable may work, but I know it will cost me to do it. The ALO cable is $1200+ U.S.
> it might be worth it though, especially for long term listening. I'm excited and I thank everyone on this thread for their insightful comments. It's a help indeed. Thank you.
> Also, I welcome any advice from any of you. I've been doing the research and so far the most trusted brands are Stephan Audio, toxic cables, cardas, moon audio, Norse, audio twag, nordost and my favourite right now from Ken Ball, ALO. It's a tough choice of which cable to purchase, but this is my last upgrade I need to do for a while.


 
  
 For that price I would also look into the Siltech Duchess Crown HD800 cable.
  
http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Duchess-Crown


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## nephilim32

zachchen1996 said:


> For that price I would also look into the Siltech Duchess Crown HD800 cable.
> 
> http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Duchess-Crown




Thanks man. That's one expensive silver cable. Damn Duchess! Who does she think she is? Kind of cool that Siltech has a try out/delivery method to test cables for 7 to 10 days. Probably expensive though. Shipping is dumb these days cost wise.


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## zachchen1996

nephilim32 said:


> Thanks man. That's one expensive silver cable. Damn Duchess! Who does she think she is? Kind of cool that Siltech has a try out/delivery method to test cables for 7 to 10 days. Probably expensive though. Shipping is dumb these days cost wise.


 
  
 No problem!
  
 Another one is the Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 7 Headphone Cable.
  
http://www.wireworldcable.com/audio-interconnects.html#headphone
  
  
 Double Helix Cables has their TOTL Pure OCC Silver Complement4 cable releasing sometime in the near future.
 The Complement3 already receives rave reviews, so I would expect the Complement4 to really be stunning.
  
http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156


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## qingjingyaxuan

Has anyone used cardas clear xlr cable for hd800?


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## nephilim32

qingjingyaxuan said:


> Has anyone used cardas clear xlr cable for hd800?




No I haven't, but let us know if you do. 

I also HOPE someone here gets their hands on the ALO reference 16 HD 800 cable. It looks like this.


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