# RSA The Lightning F-35, fully balanced portable amp Review: 35 more F-35 amps at intro price . . .



## jamato8

I saw it posted on Facebook. A new very small, most likely the smallest portable amp out there. 
  
 Trying to post an image but have bad jet lag. In Korea right now going to Shanghai, China. 
  
*Balanced cable companies that work with the RSA balanced connector:*
  
Whiplash  Audio 
Headphonelounge
  
  
 1. Balanced or single ended input.
 2. Balanced output.
 3. Three level gain switch. 
  
 6/18/2013
  
  
 I am listening to the Lighting. Wow, all I can say is wow. All the normal things I have heard from Ray's other balanced amps but such drive. And, the amp is smaller than I thought it would be. Comparing to the Hisoundaudio Anv 3 dap, it is the same size almost. It is 4mm longer, thinner and the same width and that is small! 
  
 Also, using the JH13 Pros on high gain, dead silent background. I even turned the volume up with the dap on pause, dangerous if something should kick in, and it is quiet. No hiss, nothing. The bass is pure solid, a beautiful foundation to the sound. Chicago, the remastered, wow do the horns come across and the drive of the sound. Incredible. 
  
  

  
  

  

  
  
  
*REVIEW: The Lighting F-35 fully balanced portable amp by Ray Samuels Audio. *
  
  
How many ways can you describe sound? Obviously it is very personal and when it comes to reproduced sound, at times challenging to convey the emotional and at times, what seems a visceral impact.
  
I have been using The Lightning F-35 the only way it can be used, balanced. Sources are the HiFiman HM901, iRiver AK100, Hisoundaudio 3rd Anv., iBasso DX100 single ended output and with the iBasso DB2 also incorporated as the truly balanced dac feeding the balanced input of The Lighting. With the DB2, there is a true balanced dac output to the throughput totally balanced Lighting amp.
  
The sound of any of the daps I have listed are very enjoyable. They are detailed, musical and all different. The HM901 and the DX100 have a true line out but I must add that the amped section of the 3rd Anv and my AK100 (22ohm resistor bypassed) used as a line out, are very good and seem to have a very minimal to negligible effect on the sound.
  
I used the LCD-2, ESW10 JPN, JH13 Pro and HE-500 monitors. At no time did The Lightning fail to drive any of these and with the JH13’s, I could hear zero hiss. The signal was balanced right and left and with the movement of the volume control, no contact sound could be heard
  
So, as to sound? The characteristic of the daps and the monitors was carried through. The Lightning is so neutral and to pure sounding that to me, it is like a wire with gain. I found it neither cold nor warm, not limited in frequency response nor dampening of impact.
  
The live recording of John Mayall, “Turning Point”, is one of my favorite blues to listen to as well as, Luther Allison, “Pay it Forward” and a number of Peter Green’s live albums. I also like to hear the bass presentation on the acoustical recording from the 90’s of Eric Clapton.
  
With all of the phones and dap combinations what I consistently heard was a beautiful special presentation that reached deep into the soundstage. And something I rarely hear on ear monitors, the hall sound from the sound slapping off a side or back wall and in a realistic manner that audible “describes” the size and feeling of the recording venue. There is such fluidity to the flow of the recording from any of the mentioned albums that for me, new joy in the listening of well traveling music occurs.
  
With the DB2 being fed by the HM901 or DX100 (and they do sound different but both very fine), The Lightning had a vibrancy to bass notes that was exciting. It was like a correctly tuned bass guitar that is plucked and the string has a resonance that is both tight yet space within the sound. The bass didn’t get muddy, it didn’t get lost within its own sound and it didn’t override any of the other frequencies.
  
On John Mayall’s, “The Turning Point”, California, that sax came across with purity and extension and with bite. At one point the sax player goes for an extended high note and what you hear is pure sound, a piercing realistic note held, with no grain, but like pure water streaming into the auditory domain. This sax transverses the lower mid to upper frequency and why simple in presentation, also tests a system in that it either maintains a space and place or moves. The Lightning held the placement of the sax and yet allowed the music to flow unfettered. Dynamics are unrestrained and with everything I listened to, transparency reigned supreme.
  
Over and over, with any of the combinations of monitors and daps, a slightly different presentation was made but always enjoyable and totally musical. With the DB2 inserted the balanced mode was even more obvious. The soundstage was a little larger, the music a little more spacious and the realism just a little more there.
  
There is little music I don’t enjoy. Classical came across with the magnitude that orchestral compositions demand, if to be believed. Small scale with violin or oboe or cello carried the sweet sound of the violin, the deep body and resonance of the cello was audibly felt and the strange oboe could haunt or tease with reality. Jazz, such a brassy sound to the cymbals when well recorded, made it easy to get lost in the music and sound. And the piano, not an easy instrument to reproduce, never collapsed in size nor the sound of combinations implode. Duke Ellington’s “Blues in Orbit”, kept its distance and with a wide open pallet of sound, that could be complex and driving, never fell apart nor did The Lightning surrender to the demands of Ellington.
  
Neil Young’s live 92 recording and another live recording (I can’t think of the title right now) is pure excitement and a step into reality. The nasal twang to Young’s singing, the audience participation, all create one of the most realistic sound experiences I have listened to. Now this comes through, for me, on many systems but on with these two recordings but with The Lightning, there is a magical touch that transcends the expected. You are lost in the moment but even more fun for me, I can relive it over and over and amazingly, I do not tire of the same tracks because it isn’t like recorded music, it is like real, live music!
  
Over the past few years, portable amps, daps, dacs and monitors have taken wonderful steps forward. The Lighting is small, light and easy to use. That it produces the sound that it does, is to me, is amazing. That it does what it does, is like a privilege and once owned, a ticket to performances that you can use over and over and over. This amp in my opinion is an excellent and exciting addition to your portable musical experience and frankly for home use as well.  
  
edit: The Hisoundaudio Anv. 3 is a very small dap. Single ended out to The Lightning is excellent. Though the headphone out of the Anv 3 is through the amp section, it is a very, very transparent dap and works fine. The Anv 3 is actually a little thicker than The Lighting but the package is very small and dynamic. 
  
 Using The F-35 is interesting. What the Anv 3 sounds like goes right through the 35 like all it is, is a wire. Better amplification without doubt but the sound signature of the Anv 3 seems totally unaffected. This is true of whatever dap I use. If the dap is warm then the sound is warm if could, then cold if neutral then neutral just better amplification and sound in general with more layering and slam. 
  
  

  

  
 Whiplash balanced IC for PB2 to The Lightning. 
  

  
 Using the iBasso DX100, the PB2 with the dual Wolfson 8740 dacs, balanced out to The Lightning. Try out the coax of the DX100 to the PB2 for digital vs the optical 1500 fiber Sysconcept cable.  edit: I prefer the Sysconcept 1500 optical cable. 
  
  
  Lightning with the AK100 in tandem. I use a high purity IC that I make which takes up little room as can be seen.


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## B[van]

Could you share the fb page too? Thanks!


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## ExpatinJapan

+1. i tried to find a FB page but no luck.


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## jamato8

I have posted an image form the FB site. You can see from the comparison to the LCD-3, that it is pretty small. I expect it to be powerful and as good sounding as the rest of RSA's balanced portables and so small for all this circuitry. Great stuff.


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## ButtUglyJeff

Might nicely match the profile of many new DAPs that are about to hit the market...


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## jamato8

Images posted of finished The Lightning. Now that is one small balanced portable!


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## ButtUglyJeff

So many questions.  I hope Ray adds something to his site soon...


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## SiGiE

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I saw it posted on Facebook. A new very small, most likely the smallest portable amp out there.
> 
> Trying to post an image but have bad jet lag. In Korea right now going to Shanghai, China.
> 
> ...


 
  Can't wait to try the New RSA Lightning with the HD800 and LCD3.


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## LFC_SL

That looks pretty hot. Demoed the Clas -dB and Alo Mk3 combo but the London meet was too loud to consider the cited hissing with some IEM. My experience of Ray's amps though are that they are all exquisitely black


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## jamato8

Quote: 





sigie said:


> Can't wait to try the New RSA Lightning with the HD800 and LCD3.


 
  I think it will work great with either. The LCD3 should be a delight.


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## ButtUglyJeff

This might be pure speculation, but could this particular amp be more focused on the IEM market?  I know the photo is with an Audeze product.  But it's tiny footprint implies the other direction to me...


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## jamato8

It's a tiny amp that powers big phones.


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## jamato8

I am listening to the Lighting. Wow, all I can say is wow. All the normal things I have heard from Ray's other balanced amps but such drive. And, the amp is smaller than I thought it would be. Comparing to the Hisoundaudio Anv 3 dap, it is the same size almost. It is 3mm longer, thinner and the same width and that is small! 
   
  Also, using the JH13 Pros on high gain, dead silent background. I even turned the volume up with the dap on pause, dangerous if something should kick in, and it is quiet. No hiss, nothing. The bass is pure solid, a beautiful foundation to the sound. Chicago, the remastered, wow do the horns come across and the drive of the sound. Incredible. 
   
  edit: In looking at this amp again, it is small for a single ended portable but for a fully balanced amp?? Great stuff. 
   
  This seems about the perfect balanced amp for any dap. Such resolution and large sound stage and so small for a powerful amp. The bass, such control and yet like a taught bass string, just there, just right.


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## LFC_SL

Cannot find these pics on Facebook and nothing on ray's site yet. What is the release timetable?


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## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am listening to the Lighting. Wow, all I can say is wow. All the normal things I have heard from Ray's other balanced amps but such drive. And, the amp is smaller than I thought it would be. Comparing to the Hisoundaudio Anv 3 dap, it is the same size almost. It is 3mm longer, thinner and the same width and that is small!
> 
> Also, using the JH13 Pros on high gain, dead silent background. I even turned the volume up with the dap on pause, dangerous if something should kick in, and it is quiet. No hiss, nothing. The bass is pure solid, a beautiful foundation to the sound. Chicago, the remastered, wow do the horns come across and the drive of the sound. Incredible.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I see you also have a 71B.  Would you buy the Lightning over the SR-71B?  I would like to own an RSA amp, but now I'm not sure which should be my first purchase...


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## MattTCG

What's the price point on this?
   
  thanks..


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## ButtUglyJeff

....and a photo or two would be nice......lol


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## jamato8

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> I see you also have a 71B.  Would you buy the Lightning over the SR-71B?  I would like to own an RSA amp, but now I'm not sure which should be my first purchase...


 
  The Lightning is only balanced output. So if you are going to go balanced only then why not. It is smaller and excellent sounding. 
   
  I will post some images later comparing it in size to the 3rd Anv Hisoundaudio dap, which is also small. They are almost the same size.


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## customNuts

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The Lightning is only balanced output. So if you are going to go balanced only then why not. It is smaller and excellent sounding.
> 
> I will post some images later comparing it in size to the 3rd Anv Hisoundaudio dap, which is also small. They are almost the same size.


 
  As far as the amp sections, which would you prefer? Is the Lightning on the same level, difference in signatures?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





customnuts said:


> As far as the amp sections, which would you prefer? Is the Lightning on the same level, difference in signatures?


 
  I haven't had it long and I am still letting it burn in but it is on the same level as the Intruder. I will have to have more time to compare to see if there are any differences in sound or to what degree. It is very, very transparent. Excellent sound and I love the size.


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## wormsdriver

Looks like almost the same size of the Predator then, maybe a tiny bit longer?.
  Looking forward to your pics compared with the HSA Studio.


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## AmberOzL

Sub'd, interesting.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





wormsdriver said:


> Looks like almost the same size of the Predator then, maybe a tiny bit longer?.
> Looking forward to your pics compared with the HSA Studio.


 
  Same size but about 4mm longer. Small and very powerful but totally refine. Right and left volume control absolutely matched.


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## customNuts

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I haven't had it long and I am still letting it burn in but it is on the same level as the Intruder. I will have to have more time to compare to see if there are any differences in sound or to what degree. It is very, very transparent. Excellent sound and I love the size.


 
  Thats pretty impressive, looks like a very nice little amp - I want one! Paired with something like the C3 or the ak100 would be a killer little setup.


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## ButtUglyJeff

Makes me wish I had more balanced headphones...


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## kiwirugby

It would be good to know what are optimal phones/monitors that would work with the Lightning.  Any thoughts?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





customnuts said:


> Thats pretty impressive, looks like a very nice little amp - I want one! Paired with something like the C3 or the ak100 would be a killer little setup.


 
  It is almost exactly the same length as the AK100 but narrower by about 6 or 7 mm, approx. 1/2 inch. A great pairing by the way. 
  Quote: 





kiwirugby said:


> It would be good to know what are optimal phones/monitors that would work with the Lightning.  Any thoughts?


 
  With the power it delivers you could use the LCD-3 or 2, many headphones of assorted types, IEM's as it is dead quiet. It is neutral, IMO, so it really is up to what the source puts out and how the headphones are that are used, bright, warm, etc. It drives with authority without question.


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## wormsdriver

sooo....any news on the price?
   
   
   
  If we're gonna have to start playing the guessing game, I'd say the price will be $450-$475.


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## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ Higher


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## castleofargh

we need moar!!!! (I don't mail ray samuel because I imagine 300 other people already did asking about this amp and the guy is so polite he will probably answer every single one and lose one week of his life on it)
   
  same 3D imaging (good depth) as other balanced RSA?  what about EMI / RFI ? price related will it stand between protector and sr71B? but more important, WHEN?
   
   
   
  thx jamato, I'm jealous but grateful


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## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> It is almost exactly the same length as the AK100 but narrower by about 6 or 7 mm, approx. 1/2 inch. A great pairing by the way.


 
   
   
  I'm anxious for pictures of this pairing jamato8.  Now with Red Wine Audio's "S" mod, which takes the AK100's volume knob away, I'm guessing these two would make for a wicked pairing.
   
  Pics pretty please.....


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## jamato8

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm anxious for pictures of this pairing jamato8.  Now with Red Wine Audio's "S" mod, which takes the AK100's volume knob away, I'm guessing these two would make for a wicked pairing.
> 
> Pics pretty please.....


 
  Will get soon. The pairing is excellent, when the AK100 has the 22ohm resistor bypassed. I am listening to the combo to Jackie Leven, Barefoot Days. I can't imagine anything better, that is how good The Lightening is, IMO. Balanced into my ESW10 JPN with the Whiplash TWag v3 OM. Hard to describe the intricacy of the sound and fluid presentation.


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## ButtUglyJeff

Whomever said "No news is good news", obviously wasn't curious about this RSA amp...


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## Thracian

I just bought an SR71B. I hope this isn't better ^_^


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## jamato8

Quote: 





thracian said:


> I just bought an SR71B. I hope this isn't better ^_^


 
  The 71B is excellent you are in for some fun.


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## Thracian

IKR!!! Sound so much better then the Protector. Just hope u didnt waste cash buying the SR71B since i exclusively use RSA's balanced out....


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## jamato8

Quote: 





thracian said:


> IKR!!! Sound so much better then the Protector. Just hope u didnt waste cash buying the SR71B since i exclusively use RSA's balanced out....


 
  Waste cash? That is an odd statement. The 71B uses a balanced out and a single ended. And there are several companies using the balanced out connector of the RSA amps. They are easy to use, easy to solder/make up, have a long lifespan and are light weight.


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## Thracian

I mean I waste cash. I was using my phone to type that and u and I are awfully close together ><


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## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Waste cash? That is an odd statement. The 71B uses a balanced out and a single ended. And there are several companies using the balanced out connector of the RSA amps. They are easy to use, easy to solder/make up, have a long lifespan and are light weight.


 
   
  I'm assuming "wasting cash" is a reference to the price difference between the 71B and the Lightning.  He doesn't need single ended output...


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## LFC_SL

Not wanting to pay for features you will not necessarily use is fine but 3.5mm headphone out is such a normal standard it is a strange angle to take. Highly doubt a person can have NO single ended headphones left. Such a thing as taking this hobby too far imo


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## ExpatinJapan

Pics please jamato of the esw10jpn and this rig


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## B[van]

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> Not wanting to pay for features you will not necessarily use is fine but 3.5mm headphone out is such a normal standard it is a strange angle to take. Highly doubt a person can have NO single ended headphones left. Such a thing as taking this hobby too far imo


 
   
  I found it intriguing that using a SE-balanced adaptor won't work too. Oh well


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## Anthony1

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm anxious for pictures of this pairing jamato8.  Now with Red Wine Audio's "S" mod, which takes the AK100's volume knob away, I'm guessing these two would make for a wicked pairing.
> 
> Pics pretty please.....


 
  Yep +1 for me too


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## MadMoxxi

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Waste cash? That is an odd statement. The 71B uses a balanced out and a single ended. And there are several companies using the balanced out connector of the RSA amps. They are easy to use, easy to solder/make up, have a long lifespan and are light weight.


 
   
  That is not an odd statement at all. Not everyone gets free samples like you do.  I can't speak for him, but it sounded like he was unsure of his SR71-B purchase and how it would compare against this Lightning model. It is only natural for those who might need to save up for our expensive purchases to question if we have made the right choice.  We don't even have a price estimation for the Lightning, who knows if it will be priced more like the Protector.  If I tossed more than half a thousand dollars on something that might be obsolete now, I'd be pretty ticked off.  That is excellent grounds to question an SR71-B purchase.


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## raelamb

For whatever it's worth Ray Samuels told me that since I had the SR71B I didn't need the Lightning.


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## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





raelamb said:


> For whatever it's worth Ray Samuels told me that since I had the SR71B I didn't need the Lightning.


 
   
  Need?  Of course not.  But want?


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## LFC_SL

Perhaps indicating same balanced components but slimmed down via removal of other features


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## ButtUglyJeff

Ray has posted about the Lightning on his front page.  No photos, specs or pricing info yet...
   
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/


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## audionewbi

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> Pics please jamato of the esw10jpn and this rig


 
  +1, I would not mind getting my ES10 recabled so I get to try it on the lightning. This way I can know why people keep talking about balanced out.


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## AmberOzL

This little thing can be a great match with RWAK100S.


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## tsvo614

Rays amps are top notch! I was listening to the hornet last night and proved to be a high end amp till this day!


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## KimChee

Subbed this is looking interesting..


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## DigitalFreak

I still can't get over how small this thing is.


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## jamato8

It seems even smaller than the image when seen.


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## ButtUglyJeff

I'm waiting with baited breath for photos of it stacked with an AK100...


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## tsvo614

What's cost? 1 grand?


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## Keithpgdrb

just to tease, I am finishing up a review of the lightning.  A great amp indeed.  Killer with the LCD 3 and HE500, which is what it is designed for.  Not a good match with high impedance cans like the HD600 etc...  very likely fantastic with balanced IEM's as well.  but I dont have any.


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## jamato8

*REVIEW: The Lighting F-35 fully balanced portable amp by Ray Samuels Audio. *
  
  
 How many ways can you describe sound? Obviously it is very personal and when it comes to reproduced sound, at times challenging to convey the emotional and at times, what seems a visceral impact.
  
 I have been using The Lightning F-35 the only way it can be used, balanced. Sources are the HiFiman HM901, iRiver AK100, Hisoundaudio 3rd Anv., iBasso DX100 single ended output and with the iBasso DB2 also incorporated as the truly balanced dac feeding the balanced input of The Lighting. With the DB2, there is a true balanced dac output to the throughput totally balanced Lighting amp.
  
 The sound of any of the daps I have listed are very enjoyable. They are detailed, musical and all different. The HM901 and the DX100 have a true line out but I must add that the amped section of the 3rd Anv and my AK100 (22ohm resistor bypassed) used as a line out, are very good and seem to have a very minimal to negligible effect on the sound.
  
 I used the LCD-2, ESW10 JPN, JH13 Pro and HE-500 monitors. At no time did The Lightning fail to drive any of these and with the JH13’s, I could hear zero hiss. The signal was balanced right and left and with the movement of the volume control, no contact sound could be heard
  
 So, as to sound? The characteristic of the daps and the monitors was carried through. The Lightning is so neutral and to pure sounding that to me, it is like a wire with gain. I found it neither cold nor warm, not limited in frequency response nor dampening of impact.
  
 The live recording of John Mayall, “Turning Point”, is one of my favorite blues to listen to as well as, Luther Allison, “Pay it Forward” and a number of Peter Green’s live albums. I also like to hear the bass presentation on the acoustical recording from the 90’s of Eric Clapton.
  
 With all of the phones and dap combinations what I consistently heard was a beautiful special presentation that reached deep into the soundstage. And something I rarely hear on ear monitors, the hall sound from the sound slapping off a side or back wall and in a realistic manner that audible “describes” the size and feeling of the recording venue. There is such fluidity to the flow of the recording from any of the mentioned albums that for me, new joy in the listening of well traveling music occurs.
  
 With the DB2 being fed by the HM901 or DX100 (and they do sound different but both very fine), The Lightning had a vibrancy to bass notes that was exciting. It was like a correctly tuned bass guitar that is plucked and the string has a resonance that is both tight yet space within the sound. The bass didn’t get muddy, it didn’t get lost within its own sound and it didn’t override any of the other frequencies.
  
 On John Mayall’s, “The Turning Point”, California, that sax came across with purity and extension and with bite. At one point the sax player goes for an extended high note and what you hear is pure sound, a piercing realistic note held, with no grain, but like pure water streaming into the auditory domain. This sax transverses the lower mid to upper frequency and why simple in presentation, also tests a system in that it either maintains a space and place or moves. The Lightning held the placement of the sax and yet allowed the music to flow unfettered. Dynamics are unrestrained and with everything I listened to, transparency reigned supreme.
  
 Over and over, with any of the combinations of monitors and daps, a slightly different presentation was made but always enjoyable and totally musical. With the DB2 inserted the balanced mode was even more obvious. The soundstage was a little larger, the music a little more spacious and the realism just a little more there.
  
 There is little music I don’t enjoy. Classical came across with the magnitude that orchestral compositions demand, if to be believed. Small scale with violin or oboe or cello carried the sweet sound of the violin, the deep body and resonance of the cello was audibly felt and the strange oboe could haunt or tease with reality. Jazz, such a brassy sound to the cymbals when well recorded, made it easy to get lost in the music and sound. And the piano, not an easy instrument to reproduce, never collapsed in size nor the sound of combinations implode. Duke Ellington’s “Blues in Orbit”, kept its distance and with a wide open pallet of sound, that could be complex and driving, never fell apart nor did The Lightning surrender to the demands of Ellington.
  
 Neil Young’s live 92 recording and another live recording (I can’t think of the title right now) is pure excitement and a step into reality. The nasal twang to Young’s singing, the audience participation, all create one of the most realistic sound experiences I have listened to. Now this comes through, for me, on many systems but on with these two recordings but with The Lightning, there is a magical touch that transcends the expected. You are lost in the moment but even more fun for me, I can relive it over and over and amazingly, I do not tire of the same tracks because it isn’t like recorded music, it is like real, live music!
  
 Over the past few years, portable amps, daps, dacs and monitors have taken wonderful steps forward. The Lighting is small, light and easy to use. That it produces the sound that it does, is to me, is amazing. That it does what it does, is like a privilege and once owned, a ticket to performances that you can use over and over and over. This amp in my opinion is an excellent and exciting addition to your portable musical experience and frankly for home use as well.


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## wormsdriver

Nice review! Sounds like a great performer in a very small package.

I'm very happy to know it is very neutral.

what is the battery life like?

When will it be released?


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## Anthony1

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


>


 
   
  Thanks jamato8
   
  How about some piccies to go with your review


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## jamato8

Quote: 





anthony1 said:


> Thanks jamato8
> How about some piccies to go with your review


 
  Working on it. I want to show a couple of combinations for size and use comparisons. I should have just taken some images when listening to the combination but that would have been too easy.


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## zachchen1996

jamato8 said:


> Working on it. I want to show a couple of combinations for size and use comparisons. I should have just taken some images when listening to the combination but that would have been too easy.




comparisons in sound to the intruder?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> comparisons in sound to the intruder?


 
  I haven't compared them head to head. Too many different combinations right now and not enough time but I am listening to the DX100 optical to the DB2 balanced out to The Lightning and then to the Ultrasone ED 9 and the sound is stunning. Again, I am listening to John Mayall, The Turning Point. 
   
  Back to the ESW10 with TWag v3 cable and same music, very enjoyable. I almost prefer the ESW10's to the Ed. 9's. I should recable the 9's to see how they would be with better cable.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





keithpgdrb said:


> just to tease, I am finishing up a review of the lightning.  A great amp indeed.  Killer with the LCD 3 and HE500, which is what it is designed for.  Not a good match with high impedance cans like the HD600 etc...  very likely fantastic with balanced IEM's as well.  but I dont have any.


 
  Looking forward to it.


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## jamato8

Whiplash balanced IC for PB2 to The Lightning. 
   

   
  Using the iBasso DX100, the PB2 with the dual Wolfson 8740 dacs, balanced out to The Lightning. Try out the coax of the DX100 to the PB2 for digital vs the optical 1500 fiber Sysconcept cable.


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## ButtUglyJeff

Hmmmm, lets see.
   
  The DB2 is 55mm by 24mm by 100mm.....
   
  And the lightning is about the same thickness, and is maybe 8mm shorter and maybe 8mm narrower?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> Hmmmm, lets see.
> 
> The DB2 is 55mm by 24mm by 100mm.....
> 
> And the lightning is about the same thickness, and is maybe 8mm shorter and maybe 8mm narrower?


 
  The Lightning is not as thick as the PB2 and about the size of the screen of the DX100. The images make it look larger than it actually is.


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## SiGiE

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The Lightning is not as thick as the PB2 and about the size of the screen of the DX100. The images make it look larger than it actually is.


 
  If possible, side by side an Intruder. Thanks!


----------



## Anthony1

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Whiplash balanced IC for PB2 to The Lightning.
> 
> Using the iBasso DX100, the PB2 with the dual Wolfson 8740 dacs, balanced out to The Lightning. Try out the coax of the DX100 to the PB2 for digital vs the optical 1500 fiber Sysconcept cable.


 
  Thanks jamato8
   
  Whats the chances of a few pics with your AK100 or RWAK100 for size comparisons


----------



## jamato8

I will try. So busy right now but took a few minutes to listen to some totally balanced sound, DX100 to the DB2 balanced dac to Lightning. and then to my balanced ESW10 with the TWag v3 cable. That is a mouth full. Anyway, such dynamics and impact it gives me goosebumps!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I will try. So busy right now but took a few minutes to listen to some totally balanced sound, DX100 to the DB2 balanced dac to Lightning. and then to my balanced ESW10 with the TWag v3 cable. That is a mouth full. Anyway, such dynamics and impact it gives me goosebumps!


 
   
  jamato,
   
  I was wondering.  Will the HM-901, offer a card with "balanced" output?  I've heard that term regarding the new HiFiMan DAP.  But I'm not sure if its a balanced output that would play nicely with the Lightning...


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> jamato,
> 
> I was wondering.  Will the HM-901, offer a card with "balanced" output?  I've heard that term regarding the new HiFiMan DAP.  But I'm not sure if its a balanced output that would play nicely with the Lightning...


 
  No, the output from the 901 would be a line out from the dacs, which are not balanced. The card in the 901, when using the balanced card, is the only way to get a balanced signal and that wouldn't be the best way to use the Lightning but you could use the line out from to 901 to the Lightning and that works well and sounds good.


----------



## M3NTAL

Who is this product aimed at?  Making something smaller, but still requiring a large front end does not make the total package more portable. (in my opinion)


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





m3ntal said:


> Who is this product aimed at?  Making something smaller, but still requiring a large front end does not make the total package more portable. (in my opinion)


 
  Having the amp smaller does make the package smaller. It is about the length of the AK100, about the same thickness and about 1cm narrower. Now with that and getting balanced output, you have a pretty small package and extremely portable, IMO. If you want a balanced system with a balanced amp and a source, you can have that to with little compromise in sound compared to something much more expensive, again, IMO.


----------



## audionewbi

It probably reduces the weight however the thickness is still going to remain the same as it cannot get thinner than the RSA connector. It probably is going to be a good match with AK100 and AK120 but it still going to be thick. 

 RSA connection pro is ultimate power delivery and the bad is you can only use it with those IEM/headphone who have such termination. I really hope they price is below 400 USD so we can have some headroom for investing in cable.


----------



## azarel

a really noob question... in order to use the rsa lightning f35 amp with our ciems, we must invest in new cables with balanced connectors? or we can just get an adaptor and connect our single ended cables to it? Seriously thinking of pairing this with my studio v 3rd anniversary cos of the size!!!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

You never want to use an adapter to go from an RSA balanced output to a standard termination.  You could cause an overload.  If you only need single ended, take a look at the Predator.  If you want both, look at the SR71B...


----------



## castleofargh

jeff is right, ray told it over and over again.
   
  soundwise azarel a good single ended RSA amp might be better than a balanced amp(sr71/protector) used single ended imo.
   
  then the price of getting all your headphones with balanced cable is something to consider idd. if you decide to go for it, the clever thing to do is to get all your headphones balances and then get an adapter that will go from balanced headphone to single ended source. this works really well and let you get the best of both worlds.
   
   
  edit : sorry for the typos i should have checked.


----------



## azarel

Quote: 





castleofargh said:


> jeff is right, ray told it over and over again.
> 
> soundwise azarel a good single ended RSA amp might be better than a balanced amp(sr71/protector) if used single ended imo.
> 
> then the price of getting all your headphones with balanced cable is something to consider idd. if you decide to go for it, the clever thing to do is to get all your headphones balances and then get and adapter that will go from balanced headphone to single ended source. this works really well and let you get the best of both words.


 
  ah thanks for explanation guys. i guess i'll hold off going all balanced for the time being haha. but the size of the lightning f35 is really tempting me


----------



## MadMoxxi

Doubtful. I would like to see facts backing this up. If true, that is something I would discontinue using immediately if that were the case, but I've been using it for years on multiple setups without any problems. IF that were a problem, I would expect Moon Audio and ALO themselves to notify or warn anyone against it during purchasing. Both offer 3.5mm to Balanced cables and interconnects. Why offer a potentially dangerous plug choice?

I use my Balanced to 3.5mm interconnect on my AudioEngine A5 Speakers, going from my Dac/Amps Balanced RSA/ALO output to the A5s 3.5mm input. I also go from my portable sources 3.5mm output to the Amplifiers Balanced input, always using the same interconnect depending on if I want to listen to my JH16s or my Speakers. Never encountered any problems at all. 



buttuglyjeff said:


> You never want to use an adapter to go from an RSA balanced output to a standard termination.  You could cause an overload.  If you only need single ended, take a look at the Predator.  If you want both, look at the SR71B...


----------



## audionewbi

There is really no point in using a 3.5 to RSA converter, isnt that the entire point of buying this amp so that you do not limit yourself with the bottle neck that is apparently the 3.5 is?


----------



## castleofargh

Quote: 





madmoxxi said:


> Doubtful. I would like to see facts backing this up. If true, that is something I would discontinue using immediately if that were the case, but I've been using it for years on multiple setups without any problems. IF that were a problem, I would expect Moon Audio and ALO themselves to notify or warn anyone against it during purchasing. Both offer 3.5mm to Balanced cables and interconnects. Why offer a potentially dangerous plug choice?
> 
> I use my Balanced to 3.5mm interconnect on my AudioEngine A5 Speakers, going from my Dac/Amps Balanced RSA/ALO output to the A5s 3.5mm input. I also go from my portable sources 3.5mm output to the Amplifiers Balanced input, always using the same interconnect depending on if I want to listen to my JH16s or my Speakers. Never encountered any problems at all.
> Quote:
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 


> F-35, The Lightning, The Smallest, Fully balanced, Input To Output Portable Headphone Amp In The World.
> WARNING…
> The F-35 comes with ONLY balanced output connector. It has no 3.5 mm SE output. NEVER EVER short the balanced output pins to create a single ended output. Using an adapter to convert the balanced output plug to single ended plug will over heat the buffers and burn the output stage. This act will NOT be covered under warranty. The F-35 should ONLY be used as balanced output.


 
  coming right from the RSA website
  sounds factual enough to me not to wanna do it. 
  maybe the way some other amps are built is protecting them?


----------



## MadMoxxi

I don't deny the validity of Ray's statement, I am worried.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I feel its the way Ray builds his circuitry, is the reason for this warning.  It might not apply to all amp makers.  But if I buy this amp, I will obey...


----------



## spook76

As an owner and enormous fan of the RSA Protector has anyone done a comparison between the Protector and the new Lightning. I love the balanced output of the Protector but I do not have nor do I want a balanced source so is it worth looking into the Lightning as it seems to be the big difference between the two is the Lighting allows for a balanced input and only has a balanced output.


----------



## castleofargh

Quote: 





spook76 said:


> As an owner and enormous fan of the RSA Protector has anyone done a comparison between the Protector and the new Lightning. I love the balanced output of the Protector but I do not have nor do I want a balanced source so is it worth looking into the Lightning as it seems to be the big difference between the two is the Lighting allows for a balanced input and only has a balanced output.


 

 the protector is really the top of the lush sounding rsa. I imagine the lightning would be more resolving and lose a little of the so warm softness of the protector.
  also the lightning seems to be aimed at power hungry cans.
  2, 6 and 11 gain for protector and  3, 6 and 21for the lightning.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

my review for anyone interested.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/672857/rsa-f-35-the-lightening-review


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Very nice.  It is so, so tiny.....
   
  Also, was this a demo unit, or is Ray taking orders for these?


----------



## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> my review for anyone interested.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/672857/rsa-f-35-the-lightening-review




Keith,

Excellent review. As an owner of the RSA Protector I could not agree more that once you go balanced you cannot go back to single output sound.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> Very nice.  It is so, so tiny.....
> 
> Also, was this a demo unit, or is Ray taking orders for these?


 
  I did my review from a demo unit, but it was the final production on the inside.  spoke to ray today.  The silk screening will be different I think.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Quote: 





spook76 said:


> Keith,
> 
> Excellent review. As an owner of the RSA Protector I could not agree more that once you go balanced you cannot go back to single output sound.


 
  Thanks man.  I agree, Balanced is indeed the way to go.  the additional costs often keep people from going there I think.  but if your paying lets say 700 for the HE-500, whats another little bit to get the cable you want?  the drag is I have some nice IEMs unbalanced.  dont know what I want to do about that.. lol.


----------



## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> Thanks man.  I agree, Balanced is indeed the way to go.  the additional costs often keep people from going there I think.  but if your paying lets say 700 for the HE-500, whats another little bit to get the cable you want?  the drag is I have some nice IEMs unbalanced.  dont know what I want to do about that.. lol.




I agree again with you Keith. I think people are put off by the costs and perceived trouble of buying balanced cables. I use my RSA Protector with the SE535J and await the SE846. I would suggest Ted at Headphonelounge.com. Great prices and a real gentleman and craftsman to deal with for custom cables.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'm still hoping for a AK100/Lightning stack photo.  Anyone?


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm still hoping for a AK100/Lightning stack photo.  Anyone?


 
  I am also hoping for RWAK100-S / Lightning stack. Small, portable, balanced. What can you ask more?


----------



## Anthony1

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> I am also hoping for RWAK100-S / Lightning stack. Small, portable, balanced. What can you ask more?


 
  +1 although Id love to see the Lightning with the RWA-100 S/AK100 for size comparison


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm still hoping for a AK100/Lightning stack photo.  Anyone?


 
  Sorry, I have been out exploring Alaska with no contact. Will try to get one posted today.


----------



## jamato8

Lightning with the AK100 in tandem. I use a high purity silver IC that I make which takes up little room as can be seen.


----------



## Anthony1

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Lightning with the AK100 in tandem. I use a high purity IC that I make which takes up little room as can be seen.


 
  Woah that is small. Thanks for taking the time to take some pics.
   
  That is some clean light you have there


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Wow, the length is almost perfect.  Thanks for sharing jamato.


----------



## AmberOzL

Thanks jamato, nice picture. I found the all package is really small, but thickness wise, it is not pocketable I guess?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> Thanks jamato, nice picture. I found the all package is really small, but thickness wise, it is not pocketable I guess?


 
  Depends upon the pocket. I put in my cargo pant pocket or my jacket or whatever and hardly notice it. And what is crazy, you get balanced excellent sound on the move.


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Depends upon the pocket. I put in my cargo pant pocket or my jacket or whatever and hardly notice it. And what is crazy, you get balanced excellent sound on the move.


 
  Yeap, that's what is appealing of course. I am gonna probably get that little devil a bit later on after I save some money.
   
  Would you mind telling me a place where I can order balanced cables for ciems?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> Yeap, that's what is appealing of course. I am gonna probably get that little devil a bit later on after I save some money.
> 
> Would you mind telling me a place where I can order balanced cables for ciems?


 
  Whiplash makes them. I would imagine RSA would also know of some sources.


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Whiplash makes them. I would imagine RSA would also know of some sources.


 
  Thanks mate! Great help


----------



## spook76

amberozl said:


> Yeap, that's what is appealing of course. I am gonna probably get that little devil a bit later on after I save some money.
> 
> Would you mind telling me a place where I can order balanced cables for ciems?




Ted from Headphonelounge also makes great balanced cables at very good prices. Also, a great guy to deal with.


----------



## castleofargh

we should make a list of cable heros offering the kobiconn plug for alo/rsa. (well Ray should do it) 
  I bought from whiplash, moon audio, and in europe (not that it matters much for cable) toxic cable in UK. but I guess a lot more are doing it. 
  or you could just get the plug at Mouser and send it to someone doing custom cables. (or a nice fellow from the DIY section ^_^)


----------



## AmberOzL

Thank you guys. If Toxic can do something like that it could be easier for me since I am also in Europe. I guess when the time comes, I will make a little research and find my answers. Thanks again


----------



## jamato8

If those that know who makes up the cables and lists them here I will put the information on the first page for everyone to easily access.


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> If those that know who makes up the cables and lists them here I will put the information on the first page for everyone to easily access.


 
  Very nice and helpful idea jamato, I hope we can get a nice list


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> Yeap, that's what is appealing of course. I am gonna probably get that little devil a bit later on after I save some money.
> 
> Would you mind telling me a place where I can order balanced cables for ciems?


 
   
  Also BTG Audio does...
   
http://btg-audio.webs.com/


----------



## jamato8

If you can link the name of the company then I can copy and paste the link to a list for cables.


----------



## spook76

jamato8 said:


> If you can link the name of the company then I can copy and paste the link to a list for cables.




Ted at Headphonelounge 
http://headphonelounge.com/


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





spook76 said:


> Ted at Headphonelounge
> http://headphonelounge.com/


 
  I listed it but upon going to the page I can't find the connector that Ray uses.


----------



## spook76

jamato8 said:


> I listed it but upon going to the page I can't find the connector that Ray uses.




All you need to do is request a balanced connector when ordering the cables. Ted did a great job with my balanced cables for my RSA Protector.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





spook76 said:


> All you need to do is request a balanced connector when ordering the cables. Ted did a great job with my balanced cables for my RSA Protector.


 
  Great. I also got an email that they were updating their website to show the connector.


----------



## jelt2359

Is there actually a portable DAP that can do the balanced output that will go directly to the RSA.... And has similar quality?
   
  I have a Protector. I am reading that the difference between the Protector and the SR71B/ Lightning/Intruder is that the former is a more aggressive?
   
  It's a bit confusing to discern the different sound signatures... I know that people here don't like to compare which is 'better' (except that new always seems to be better than old), but I'm not asking about that- I'm curious abt the sound signatures.


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





jelt2359 said:


> Is there actually a portable DAP that can do the balanced output that will go directly to the RSA.... And has similar quality?
> 
> I have a Protector. I am reading that the difference between the Protector and the SR71B/ Lightning/Intruder is that the former is a more aggressive?
> 
> It's a bit confusing to discern the different sound signatures... I know that people here don't like to compare which is 'better' (except that new always seems to be better than old), but I'm not asking about that- I'm curious abt the sound signatures.


 

 Hifiman DAPs with balanced cards I guess. HM901 for example.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> Hifiman DAPs with balanced cards I guess. HM901 for example.


 
   
  balanced headphone out, not balanced line out...
   
  The CLAS db is the only balanced output that I'm aware of


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> balanced headphone out, not balanced line out...
> 
> The CLAS db is the only balanced output that I'm aware of


 

 Ops, sorry you are right, my bad guys. Well apart from your example, nothing comes to my mind either.


----------



## onlychild

Ibasso has a balanced portable dac


----------



## AmberOzL

DX100 and HDP R10 has only SE right, not balanced?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





onlychild said:


> Ibasso has a balanced portable dac


 
   
  Correct, but you will need a crazy interconnect...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





amberozl said:


> DX100 and HDP R10 has only SE right, not balanced?


 
   
  I honestly would worry too much about going single ended input, to balanced output.  If Ray felt it was that important, he wouldn't have included the single ended input...
   
  Now, double amping?  That's my pet peeve...


----------



## castleofargh

but don't let this disappoint you, if it has the same kind of imaging I had on the protector, then single ended source is already amazing.


----------



## spook76

castleofargh said:


> but don't let this disappoint you, if it has the same kind of imaging I had on the protector, then single ended source is already amazing.




I could not agree more. Once I started using my Protector with a balanced output I could never go back to SE. The clarity and imaging is simply breathtaking.


----------



## jamato8

The Hisoundaudio Anv. 3 is a very small dap. Single ended out to The Lightning is excellent. Though the headphone out of the Anv 3 is through the amp section, it is a very, very transparent dap and works fine. The Anv 3 is actually a little thicker than The Lighting but the package is very small and dynamic. 
   
  Using The F-35 is interesting. What the Anv 3 sounds like goes right through the 35 like all it is, is a wire. Better amplification without doubt but the sound signature of the Anv 3 seems totally unaffected. This is true of whatever dap I use. If the dap is warm then the sound is warm if could, then cold if neutral then neutral just better amplification and sound in general with more layering and slam.


----------



## MadMoxxi

Wonder how this is going to pair with the iBasso DX50 that is due out soon.  Seems like a good match.


----------



## CosmicHolyGhost

Still no price listed on the website?


----------



## Anthony1

madmoxxi said:


> Wonder how this is going to pair with the iBasso DX50 that is due out soon.  Seems like a good match.




Are they the same size?


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





anthony1 said:


> Are they the same size?


 

 Not the same but quite similar I would say. It could be a good portable balanced setup.


----------



## onlychild

Price posted on Rays site. $550 ($500 for first 200 buyers)


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ouch, that's pricey.


----------



## zachchen1996

Quote: 





onlychild said:


> Price posted on Rays site. $550 ($500 for first 200 buyers)


 
  that's an ambitious price, around the price of a portaphile 627x too, hopefully there will be impressions on the sq between the two later on


----------



## AmberOzL

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> that's an ambitious price, around the price of a portaphile 627x too, hopefully there will be impressions on the sq between the two later on


 

 Portaphile is single ended, The Lightning has only balanced output. Their purpose is kinda different. If you want to compare 627x to one of the RSA amps, try their flagship single ended products. I am not that familiar with RSA amps but I heard SR71A is very good.
   
  EDIT: Yeah I also find it very pricy, I was expecting at least 100 150 $ less.


----------



## jamato8

Custom case, not off the shelf, great anodizing that holds up, military spec boards, and some of the best sound I have heard from a portable or from most any amp.


----------



## audionewbi

I like how it is small but its form will not stack nicely against any current DAP beside the ipod nano 7G.


----------



## wormsdriver

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I like how it is small but its form will not stack nicely against any current DAP beside the ipod nano 7G.


 
  or (I think) Hisound Rocoo BA / Studio.
   
  ________________________________________
   
  I knew price would be around this range, but it would've been more appealing (in general) to be around $475.  
   
  Here's an idea, why not make it with a lifetime warranty (except for battery) like the Predator? 
   
  I know this did influence my decision when I purchased my (now long gone) Predator.
   
  Just a suggestion...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I expected it to be a bit less then the SR71-B, and that's exactly what it is.  Now to choose between the two...


----------



## jamato8

Orders start this week for the F-35, The Lightning. I look forward to impressions.


----------



## LFC_SL

zachchen1996 said:


> that's an ambitious price, around the price of a portaphile 627x too, hopefully there will be impressions on the sq between the two later on


 
  
 Think the appropriate comparator is to other RSA balanced amps. And ALO who also use the same connector.
  
 Am out at this time but may revisit. Not because of the price or anything. But because have never tried balanced cable before. The only way to assess I think is to have a dual single and balanced output amp and engage in cable swapping (feel free to correct anyone). Really want to try balanced with my Clas -dB but demo opportunity of balanced amps is separated by an ocean


----------



## attilahun

I was wondering how this might pair with the fiio x3.
I haven't done the homework yet but the x3 looks like a great deal compared to the other expensive ipod replacements and seems generally shaped like the f35.
Anyone explore this yet?


----------



## jamato8

It works well with the X3. You get the benefit of a well done Wolfson dac and a big jump in amp performance. Excellent sound combination and beautifully small!


----------



## CosmicHolyGhost

jamato8 said:


> It works well with the X3. You get the benefit of a well done Wolfson dac and a big jump in amp performance. Excellent sound combination and beautifully small!


 
  
 jamato8, how about when comparing against 901 balance amp card or DX50? My wallet hates me........
  
 Thanks and sorry for too many questions....


----------



## onlychild

It's the perfect size for the Ak120. I'll be sending mine in to Vinnie for the "B" mod soon. Fully balanced! The broccoli rubber band will be replaced by the alo bands today as well.


----------



## attilahun

Great info, thanks!


----------



## attilahun

onlychild said:


> It's the perfect size for the Ak120. I'll be sending mine in to Vinnie for the "B" mod soon. Fully balanced! The broccoli rubber band will be replaced by the alo bands today as well.




Man that rug really ties the system together. 
-J. Lebowski


----------



## onlychild

Couple more pics. 

The rug in the previous pic helps tighten up the bass and extend the highs. ; )


----------



## castleofargh

kudos to both the mini-rug and Attila's homage to the dude.
 I'm glad I came here today.
  
  
  
  
 about X3+F-35, wouldn't it be loud for most iems?  as X3's LO is about 1.7v and the low gain already at 3 (values coming from my aging memory so correct me if I'm wrong).
 I don't like using the first 1/4 of a volume knob for usual balance issues in that zone. not a critic against RSA, just the usual misbehavior of knobs. 
  
 I realize the F-35 was really made as a portable powerhouse for something like an ortho, but I imagine people planning on using it for both low sensi cans and high sensi IEMs. the X3 might be a great idea for the first part, but not so great for the second one.
 suspicions only, I didn't try the F-35.


----------



## tsvo614

Only good thing alo audio makes are bands ... Lol.. They fit tighter than any other band.


----------



## onlychild

I'm currently using the f-35 with my JH16 and only get a quarter travel on the volume knob before it's too loud for my ears but it's so good I can dial it in to any volume level I'm looking for just on the 1st quarter turn. Also, the amp is dead silent with the jh16s.

Waiting on an adapter from forza audioworks to use my LCD-2s with the amp. I'm really curious on how well it will drive them, but with the 16s, I'm loving the ak120-lightning combo.


----------



## Makiah S

Any one tried using with the Line out of the Hm 801? My pb1 is stuck in High Gain [crappy build quality] so hell I need something new! I like that it's being describe as a wire n gain! Might snag one of these in the winter. my only question though is 
  
 what are the w rating for different ohms, I've found my dt 880 and he 400 scales nicely with more power avalible! If it's driving the HD 800 I doubt it will be an issue, but I'm looking at either this amp or the Protector the more POWER the better and ofc does it come WITH a 4pin xlr adapter or do I have to buy one


----------



## Makiah S

buttuglyjeff said:


> I see you also have a 71B.  Would you buy the Lightning over the SR-71B?  I would like to own an RSA amp, but now I'm not sure which should be my first purchase...


 
 Ray also recommend me to get the SR-71B but again seeing as you guys are enjoying it with LCD 2 and HE 500s. It should be more than enough for my Dt 880 600hm [Zombie X Copper Balanced] and my He 400 [Balanced Toxic Cable Hybrid]
  


jamato8 said:


> I am listening to the Lighting. Wow, all I can say is wow. All the normal things I have heard from Ray's other balanced amps but such drive. And, the amp is smaller than I thought it would be. Comparing to the Hisoundaudio Anv 3 dap, it is the same size almost. It is 3mm longer, thinner and the same width and that is small!
> 
> Also, using the JH13 Pros on high gain, dead silent background. I even turned the volume up with the dap on pause, dangerous if something should kick in, and it is quiet. No hiss, nothing. The bass is pure solid, a beautiful foundation to the sound. Chicago, the remastered, wow do the horns come across and the drive of the sound. Incredible.
> 
> ...


 
 Good to hear, and about the size I was SHOCKED at how small my pb1 was the first time I got it :O 
  


raelamb said:


> For whatever it's worth Ray Samuels told me that since I had the SR71B I didn't need the Lightning.


 
 Yea I was also recommended the more expensive Sr-71b [but since I have 2/3 of my cans balanced, I'm defintly going to get my w1000x balanced, and if this works with Iems it should be magical for the w1kx]
  


spook76 said:


> Keith,
> 
> Excellent review. As an owner of the RSA Protector I could not agree more that once you go balanced you cannot go back to single output sound.


 
 Lastly this, still I was shocked at how nice the SE out of my HM801 was, I'm even more excited to see how my w1000x will sound once it's balanced out of the Line out HM801 to F-35
 Still... since my pb1 just got stuck in High gain [crappy build]
  
 I think I'm going to settle down on this amp! Just need to wait 90 days or so to get the funds ;3 still would like some concrete power measures though :O 
  
 Also sorry for the double post :3 I'm just excited  [and honestly my hm801 W1000x portable could use a worthy amp, as I found today the pb1's has a rather UN PLEASENT :O color when paired with the w1000x so the prospect of getting a cleaner more transparent amp is very exciting ]


----------



## Keithpgdrb

You should talk to ray abount matching impedance. I don't think the lightning would work well on inefficient cans like the Beyers. It a designed for higher efficiency low impedance cans.


----------



## Makiah S

keithpgdrb said:


> You should talk to ray abount matching impedance. I don't think the lightning would work well on inefficient cans like the Beyers. It a designed for higher efficiency low impedance cans.


 
  
 bleh, well heck the pb1 works just fine for it... so might have to keep that around for a while


----------



## Ray Samuels

keithpgdrb said:


> You should talk to ray abount matching impedance. I don't think the lightning would work well on inefficient cans like the Beyers. It a designed for higher efficiency low impedance cans.


 
  
 Keith...
 I use the F-35 with HE-6, it can drive it very well to a very acceptable sound level. Also in balanced it can drive my HD600, 300 ohms with ease.
 There should be no problem driving DT880, 250 ohms. I have one but in SE & it sounds great & it takes that edge of brightness that DT880 is known for.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Well there you have it.


----------



## Makiah S

ray samuels said:


> Keith...
> I use the F-35 with HE-6, it can drive it very well to a very acceptable sound level. Also in balanced it can drive my HD600, 300 ohms with ease.
> There should be no problem driving DT880, 250 ohms. I have one but in SE & it sounds great & it takes that edge of brightness that DT880 is known for.


 
  
 880 250, no my friend I have a DT 880 600 ohm, but yea in balanced mode it should be fine


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mshenay said:


> 880 250, no my friend I have a DT 880 600 ohm, but yea in balanced mode it should be fine


 
  
 If it can push the HE-6, I worry about no others......


----------



## Makiah S

buttuglyjeff said:


> If it can push the HE-6, I worry about no others......


 
  
 Still Ray Suggests the Intruder which is a balanced Amp an Dac on the price level of the NFB 10SE2
  
 so honestly, Let's get the Lighting and call it  a day. Just wish he'd release those damn power specs -.-
  
 He's been very nice but he's always recommending the more expensive options. I'd rather I have the power specs to look at my self and make the choice on my own


----------



## onlychild

Made for each other.  Fully Balanced.  The 2nd pic is a RSA to TRRS balanced cable that RWA sells.


----------



## hjm1364

Just want to know the detailed difference in sound between lighting and 71b.


----------



## castleofargh

mshenay said:


> buttuglyjeff said:
> 
> 
> > If it can push the HE-6, I worry about no others......
> ...


 

 you say the more power the better, the intruder I believe is at the top for that. more gain than the sr71b but at the cost of less battery (hey that power has to come from somewhere).
 I've had the opportunity to listen to the intruder and sr71b last week, they do sound pretty much the same on low gain (no real volume matching or anything so take it with a grain of salt) so I believe that the amp section really is from the same design. and I can also say that they both destroy the protector in all aspects(except size and battery life). I loved my protector, but those are clearly on another level.
 if the lightning was aimed at low sensi fullsize cans, then I guess it's more about current and voltage than voltage alone. for your 600ohm cans I believe ray just pointed in the obvious direction of the intruder and its massive gain.
  
 he's not the kind to try and sell his top of the line stuff. every time I've asked if an upgrade was worth it he told me that I didn't need it because I use IEMs ^_^.
 on the other hand I agree with you, I would like to see a little more specs (that's not directed only at Ray, I just don't like technical mystery of any kind). it doesn't mean everything but still helps us understanding who's who.


----------



## spook76

castleofargh said:


> you say the more power the better, the intruder I believe is at the top for that. more gain than the sr71b but at the cost of less battery (hey that power has to come from somewhere).
> I've had the opportunity to listen to the intruder and sr71b last week, they do sound pretty much the same on low gain (no real volume matching or anything so take it with a grain of salt) so I believe that the amp section really is from the same design. and I can also say that they both destroy the protector in all aspects(except size and battery life). I loved my protector, but those are clearly on another level.
> if the lightning was aimed at low sensi fullsize cans, then I guess it's more about current and voltage than voltage alone. for your 600ohm cans I believe ray just pointed in the obvious direction of the intruder and its massive gain.
> 
> ...




Castle,

As an an owner of the Protector also driving IEMs does the Intruder materially improve the sound? I use the Protector in balanced output but single input and want to keep it that way for now. I would appreciate any insights you have.


----------



## castleofargh

spook76 said:


> Castle,
> 
> As an an owner of the Protector also driving IEMs does the Intruder materially improve the sound? I use the Protector in balanced output but single input and want to keep it that way for now. I would appreciate any insights you have.


 
  
 you lose a lot of that unique lush warm sound of the protector, and you gain something much more balanced (tonally), and overall more details and resolution. yes it's an upgrade. unless you have some amazingly bright IEMs that only the protector could tame, I doubt you could regret going up in the line.
  
 can't guess your tastes for you, so I'll tell you why I got rid of the protector:
 the protector to me had a cut in the sub bass. all warm and bassy it was, I didn't get the extra low rumble I could get on other sources.  the sr71b/intruder go noticeably lower.
  
 trebles! the protector is overall very nice to listen to, but trebles are washed out. on the sr71 you're still not in the neutral sounding zone, but you get a lot more details and to my ears, this adds to the overall imaging. being able to pinpoint more high pitched notes seems to give more layers.
  
 shielding against smartphones!! the protector is badly shielded and it can get much worse depending on what cable you use. I can't say the sr71b and intruder are 100% shielded as I didn't try to call while sticking the phone onto the amp, but the shielding is good. day and night compared to the protector.
  
 sonically unless you're in love with the protector's lush sound (something I could understand very well), the sr71b or the intruder are simply better and closer the a hifi sound (if that means anything).
 but you give up the battery life and ofc the small size of the protector. that's why I'm so curious about this small lightning ^_^.
  
 anyway if you don't plan to use the dac of the intruder to go fully balanced, and only use IEMs or easy to drive cans, you should go for the sr71b. no point in getting a bigger gain, bigger size, and less battery for the same sound on IEMs.
  
  
  
 question to people who have a lightning already, where are you on the volume knob for a given IEM and a given source plz?
 I'm afraid the minimum gain is already a lot for iems if you don't use an out of breath 0.5v apple like line out. (I fear for the 1.7v of the X3 for example)


----------



## onlychild

For my jh16s being fed by the rwaak120-b I get about a quarter turn on the volume knob on low gain before it's too loud, but I have no issues getting the exact volume level I want on that quarter turn.


----------



## castleofargh

onlychild said:


> For my jh16s being fed by the rwaak120-b I get about a quarter turn on the volume knob on low gain before it's too loud, but I have no issues getting the exact volume level I want on that quarter turn.


 

 eheh  thanks, but my question came from seeing your picture


----------



## Makiah S

castleofargh said:


> you lose a lot of that unique lush warm sound of the protector, and you gain something much more balanced (tonally), and overall more details and resolution. yes it's an upgrade. unless you have some amazingly bright IEMs that only the protector could tame, I doubt you could regret going up in the line.
> 
> can't guess your tastes for you, so I'll tell you why I got rid of the protector:
> the protector to me had a cut in the sub bass. all warm and bassy it was, I didn't get the extra low rumble I could get on other sources.  the sr71b/intruder go noticeably lower.
> ...


 
 Happy to hear the Protector is DARK sounding... I heard that one of the RSA amps was dark in a HeadFonia Review  but I forget is was the Protector that was as such
  
 That said, how neutral are the sr71b and intruder... using line out of an HM801 gives me enough warmth imo, so I'd want to shy away from anything "warm" happy to hear the Protector was not the right choice for a cleaner more transparent amp


----------



## jamato8

I find the Intruder to be very neutral and the 71B to be much the same. The F35, The Lightning, is also neutral and to me, not dark sounding. The F35 is dynamic, detailed with excellent layering to the sound and pure sounding, in that it is fluid but not laid back and boring. 
  
 I spoke to Ray and he is continuing the introductory price for 35 more F35 amps. The F35 drives most all headphones easily and competes easily with home amps though home amps won't fit in the palm of your hand! :^)


----------



## Makiah S

jamato8 said:


> I find the Intruder to be very neutral and the 71B to be much the same. The F35, The Lightning, is also neutral and to me, not dark sounding. The F35 is dynamic, detailed with excellent layering to the sound and pure sounding, in that it is fluid but not laid back and boring.
> 
> I spoke to Ray and he is continuing the introductory price for 35 more F35 amps. The F35 drives most all headphones easily and competes easily with home amps though home amps won't fit in the palm of your hand! :^)


 
 yea I'd like a f35 but I would need to balance my w1000x b4 I could get an f35


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I posted my F-35 Lightning Review in the products section:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/ray-samuels-audio-f-35-lightning/reviews/10114
  


> RSA F-35 Lightning
> 
> HISTORY:  My first portable headphone amplifier was the Ray Samuels Tomahawk in 2007.  I needed it because my Shure E4c were not very efficient and needed more power to wake them up or energize them, and my Sennheiser HD600 were much more demanding and needed significantly more power than my iPod could supply - without the amplifier the HD600 felt dull and bland, while the E4c lacked impact and dynamics.  An amplifier transformed them both, and thus began my Head-Fi journey.
> 
> ...


----------



## AmberOzL

Read most part of it, wonderful! I will finish reading when I have time. Seems like a very nice and detailed review and also helps people choosing between SR71B and Lightning.


----------



## jamato8

Great read Larry. I have to say that for such a small package The Lightning totally delivers and with such a small footprint, adds so little bulk. Like having a desktop amp in your pocket!


----------



## AmberOzL

Pair it with a dap with high end DAC in it through line out, find the heaven in audio


----------



## Makiah S

Actaually nice read... although I think I will wind up going with the sr 71B in the end. It would be nice to have a SE option availible as not all of my headphones are fully balanced atm. And any new purchases I get would start as SE then wind up getting balanced.
  
 But good read non the less  and with that I'm off sr71B thread xD
  
 My other concern is teh extra warmth of the F-35, using the HM 801 as a dac any "extra warmth" would be a rather bad thing as the hm801 is already very warm to begin with. Plus if the sr 71b has more power that's also a plus. I'm hoping to own an HE 4 some time soon, and we all know how power hungry that crazy headphone is >.>


----------



## spook76

I just ordered an F-35 Lightning as an upgrade for my Protector from Ray Samuels and I want to thank Castle and Jamato specifically for answering all my questions. Now the wait for it to be delivered. 

One question, what, if any, is the burn in time on the Lightning? If I remember the Protector took about 50-100 hours to settle in (or my ears to adjust).

Edit: I also want to thank HeadphoneAddict for the PMs his help was invaluable.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

spook76 said:


> I just ordered an F-35 Lightning as an upgrade for my Protector from Ray Samuels and I want to thank Castle and Jamato specifically for answering all my questions. Now the wait for it to be delivered.
> 
> One question, what, if any, is the burn in time on the Lightning? If I remember the Protector took about 50-100 hours to settle in (or my ears to adjust).
> 
> Edit: I also want to thank HeadphoneAddict for the PMs his help was invaluable.


 
 Ray usually burns them in for a while before sale.  just throw ray an email and ask him.


----------



## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> Ray usually burns them in for a while before sale.  just throw ray an email and ask him.




Thanks Keith. I cannot wait to hear and compare the differences between the Protector and the Lightning.


----------



## jamato8

I just start right off listening but notice a change with burn in, even after a couple of hundred hours but the sound was always good on the 35 and is excellent today. Enjoy!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I snagged the demo F-35 amp after the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, where I feel in love with it. So I haven't heard any changes with putting more hours on it, although it was new at the start of the show.

Both my protector, and my predator opened up and seemed more transparent with more listening time. But my P-51 sounded fantastic right out-of-the-box & never changed. Same with my SR-71b Blackbird.


----------



## spook76

headphoneaddict said:


> I snagged the demo F-35 amp after the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, where I feel in love with it. So I haven't heard any changes with putting more hours on it, although it was new at the start of the show.
> 
> Both my protector, and my predator opened up and seemed more transparent with more listening time. But my P-51 sounded fantastic right out-of-the-box & never changed. Same with my SR-71b Blackbird.




You are killing me. I ordered my F-35 on Monday and Ray told me he would have it out that day. Now the damn wait. 

With the SE846 coupled with the lush sound of the Protector I am looking forward to the expected clarity and soundstage improvement moving to the F-35. If I want more body in the sound I will switch the filters on the 846 from the white (bright) to the blue (balanced) filter.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

spook76 said:


> You are killing me. I ordered my F-35 on Monday and Ray told me he would have it out that day. Now the damn wait.
> 
> With the SE846 coupled with the lush sound of the Protector I am looking forward to the expected clarity and soundstage improvement moving to the F-35. If I want more body in the sound I will switch the filters on the 846 from the white (bright) to the blue (balanced) filter.




I found that my protector was more aggressive sounding than my other amps, so you may not need to change filters until you've listened to the F-35 for a while. I'm still surprised that I enjoy it just as much with my orthodynamics as I do with my HD 800.


----------



## spook76

I received my F-35 on Friday and in really have to thank three posters in particular on this thread who were extremely helpful and insightful. 

HeadphoneAddict you are right the F-35 is less aggressive and less fatiguing than the Protector. Also, I agree the Protector flavors the music in comparison to the F-35. I still think the Protector is great and for a bright headphone it is a great match. 

Castleoffargh your comment about the balanced tonality was spot on. While the lush sound is absent, with the SE846 I can adjust the sound through the filters and I will take the greater clarity. 

Jamato I too am surprised on the width of the soundstage as well as the dynamics with the F-35 coming from the Protector. 

I could not be happier with the F-35 and I want again thank the three of you for all of your help. Ray Samuels really created the finest portable balanced amp on the market with the F-35 Lightning.


----------



## spook76

A picture of my portable rig with the F-35


----------



## castleofargh

I'm glad if my ranting could help in any way. jamato8 and dj yoda are clearly much more knowledgeable than me here.


----------



## spook76

To any and all who may already own the Lightning is it my ears growing accustomed to the sound or does the Lightning, after about 100 hours of use, really open up? The bass now seems bottomless and the soundstage is wider. I thought the Protector/SE846 combination was good but the Lightning/SE846 is truly exceptional.


----------



## jamato8

spook76 said:


> To any and all who may already own the Lightning is it my ears growing accustomed to the sound or does the Lightning, after about 100 hours of use, really open up? The bass now seems bottomless and the soundstage is wider. I thought the Protector/SE846 combination was good but the Lightning/SE846 is truly exceptional.


 
 Lol,  . . . oh no, there is no burn in!   
  
 Yes, that is what I heard also and after another 50 or 100 you will a few more refinements. Great amp, it is!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I do believe that with burn-in many DACs and amps can open up or become a little more refined.  In general the frequency response doesn't seem to change much to me, so the sound signature is more set in stone.


----------



## jamato8

Well it doesn't take long to hear what this amp is capable. Such a small quality package and solid open presentation that so easily transcends its size.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

jamato8 said:


> Well it doesn't take long to hear what this amp is capable. Such a small quality package and solid open presentation that so easily transcends its size.


 
  
 I still can't get over how much more I like it with my HD800 than I do using my WA6, DACmini, HiFi-M8, SR-71b, EF-2, EF-5, Schitt Modi, Millett Starving Student, and on and on.  The only desktop amps I use these days for the HD800 are my EF6 and ZDT, but more often I use the HiFi-M8 fed into my F-35 amp in the bedroom. 
  
 That is my "outside back porch watch the sunset" audio rig.


----------



## jamato8

headphoneaddict said:


> I still can't get over how much more I like it with my HD800 than I do using my WA6, DACmini, HiFi-M8, SR-71b, EF-2, EF-5, Schitt Modi, Millett Starving Student, and on and on.  The only desktop amps I use these days for the HD800 are my EF6 and ZDT, but more often I use the HiFi-M8 fed into my F-35 amp in the bedroom.
> 
> That is my "outside back porch watch the sunset" audio rig.


 
 Well my fi.Q outdid my very, very modified WA6, and it was fine sounding. The F35 really shows what a portable or to the point, what an amp can do. Totally dedicated to balanced and I can understand why Ray did this as it is suited for balanced and not single ended, which would compromise it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

jamato8 said:


> Well my fi.Q outdid my very, very modified WA6, and it was fine sounding. The F35 really shows what a portable or to the point, what an amp can do. Totally dedicated to balanced and I can understand why Ray did this as it is suited for balanced and not single ended, which would compromise it.


 
  
 Actually my maxed WA6 with the Pseudo Dual Power Supply mod added by Woo is very nice sounding, with good timbre and tone.  But the HD800 seem a little fatiguing with it when using Sylvania VT-231 tubes + Sophia Princess 274b.  To tame the HD800 with it I either have to change the driver tubes to RCA or GE 6DE7 with the Sophia, or change the Sophia to an RCA 6AS7G if I keep the VT-231 tubes (with adapters).
  
 With the RCA 6DE7 + Sophia Princess the sound signature is that of my Eddie Current ZDT, but with a smaller, less spacious, and more forward soundstage (plus about 1/5 the max power). This is the setup for using HD800 and high-end Grados. The VT-231 tubes open up the soundstage and improve micro-detail, making the sound better for HD600, HE-500, and LCD-2.  The problem is the WA6 need more power for the Orthodynamics if you like to play loud and hard hitting.
  
 Then I pull out the RSA F-35 and connect it to the same DAC, and I'm blown away that I don't need to change opamps to tubes to make it work with these different sounding phones.  I'm using balanced cables with SE adapters, so they can be used on both amps (custom IEM, HD600, HD800, HE-500, and LCD-2 rev2).


----------



## jamato8

I can't help but smile when I see Pseudo Dual Power supply. They use that in a couple of other amps as well. That was my baby and it took them almost a year, maybe longer to adopt it. It changed the WA6 from ok to a very good headphone amp. I do wish they had given me the recognition for having given them the design.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

jamato8 said:


> I can't help but smile when I see Pseudo Dual Power supply. They use that in a couple of other amps as well. That was my baby and it took them almost a year, maybe longer to adopt it. It changed the WA6 from ok to a very good headphone amp. I do wish they had given me the recognition for having given them the design.


 
  
 Yes, YOU were the one that convinced me to send my WA6 to Jack as the first WA6 to be modded by them.  
  
 Can you believe I still have that amp?  It's fantastic with All of my IEM and my HD600, as well as M-100 and LA-7000. I'd like more power for HE-500 and LCD-2 rev2 but it's enough, and with the right tubes it plays nice with HD800 but loses a little air and detail with everything else in exchange.
  
 On the other hand, I wouldn't change anything about the F-35, and I use the F-35 A LOT MORE.


----------



## onlychild

I'm loving my F-35 everyday with the jh16s fp

Amazing that this little amp works so well with IEMs and full size headphones


----------



## jamato8

headphoneaddict said:


> Yes, YOU were the one that convinced me to send my WA6 to Jack as the first WA6 to be modded by them.
> 
> Can you believe I still have that amp?  It's fantastic with All of my IEM and my HD600, as well as M-100 and LA-7000. I'd like more power for HE-500 and LCD-2 rev2 but it's enough, and with the right tubes it plays nice with HD800 but loses a little air and detail with everything else in exchange.
> 
> On the other hand, I wouldn't change anything about the F-35, and I use the F-35 A LOT MORE.


 
 Years go by fast! 
  
 Yes, no changing of tubes, turn it and away you go. :^) A fun great little amp.


----------



## AmberOzL

What really surprises me is this: so small in size yet has enough power for full size cans and still perform without distorting the sound of c/iems. I might consider one for future but there are too many things in my list now, a portable amp can wait for the moment.
  
 Btw, can it drive something like HE6?


----------



## lin0003

amberozl said:


> What really surprises me is this: so small in size yet has enough power for full size cans and still perform without distorting the sound of c/iems. I might consider one for future but there are too many things in my list now, a portable amp can wait for the moment.
> 
> Btw, can it drive something like HE6?


 
 Obviously not lol.


----------



## AmberOzL

lin0003 said:


> Obviously not lol.


 

 So it is like, perfect but not that perfect


----------



## lin0003

amberozl said:


> So it is like, perfect but not that perfect


 
 Hardly any desktop amps can drive the HE-6... gonna be a long time before that happens...


----------



## Ray Samuels

lin0003 said:


> Hardly any desktop amps can drive the HE-6... gonna be a long time before that happens...


 
 F-35 can drive HE-6 to acceptable level but it is limited to the battery voltage as it can not swing more than 16 volts, which is perfect for all hard to drive phones & high impedance but the HE-6.
 If you want the portable that can swing around 36 volts in balanced then the SR-71B & the Intruder do that. Either one can drive the HE-6.


----------



## lin0003

I haven't heard either on the HE-6, would you say that it truly drives it well though and not just to acceptable volumes?


----------



## Keithpgdrb

the two amps Ray mentioned do drive the HE6 very nicely.  the lightning can drive it for enough volume, but not as well.  not the choice for the he6


----------



## AmberOzL

keithpgdrb said:


> the two amps Ray mentioned do drive the HE6 very nicely.  the lightning can drive it for enough volume, but not as well.  not the choice for the he6


 

 Well optimum choice for HE-6 headphones is a speaker amp, so of course expecting a "portable amp" to drive it "perfectly" is kind of a dream while most of the desktop level amps have problem with HE-6.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

amberozl said:


> Well optimum choice for HE-6 headphones is a speaker amp, so of course expecting a "portable amp" to drive it "perfectly" is kind of a dream while most of the desktop level amps have problem with HE-6.


 
 true, but Rays amps drive them better then most desktop amps.


----------



## jamato8

keithpgdrb said:


> true, but Rays amps drive them better then most desktop amps.


 
 Very true.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

amberozl said:


> What really surprises me is this: so small in size yet has enough power for full size cans and still perform without distorting the sound of c/iems. I might consider one for future but there are too many things in my list now, a portable amp can wait for the moment.
> 
> Btw, can it drive something like HE6?


 
  
 No. Don't be silly.
  
 Get the SR-71b or Intruder if you MUST use a portable amp tot drive HE-6, but a desktop amp like the EF6 will be best.


----------



## spook76

I want to pass along my observations if you are using the F-35 with an interconnect. I use an iPod Touch 5th as my source and while I have a LOD and a lighting to 30 pin adapter, I found the Wolfson DAC in the adapter inferior to the native Cirrus Logic DAC in the iPod. Also, using the LOD locked the sound output at close to maximum which is why I am writing this note. 

I was chatting with my brother who was a sound engineer for a regional band in his misspent youth and he stated that when mixing he always kept the source low and let the amplifier (assuming you have a great amplifier) carry the load to the speakers. So, following that logic, I used an interconnect to the F-35 and turned the iPod volume down to 50-60% and turn up the Lightning. I realize I am double amping but I hear no distortion or artifacts at that volume level. As for the sound, it really opened up the soundstage as well as the overall clarity. I also have a good friend who has the RSA Intruder/iPod combination and he also now does this and agrees that improvement is substantial. 

The key is you need the amplifier that has the power and engineering to accomplish this task without distortion or clipping. Just another reason why the F-35 Lightning truly is a superb amplifier.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

spook76 said:


> I want to pass along my observations if you are using the F-35 with an interconnect. I use an iPod Touch 5th as my source and while I have a LOD and a lighting to 30 pin adapter, I found the Wolfson DAC in the adapter inferior to the native Cirrus Logic DAC in the iPod. Also, using the LOD locked the sound output at close to maximum which is why I am writing this note.
> 
> I was chatting with my brother who was a sound engineer for a regional band in his misspent youth and he stated that when mixing he always kept the source low and let the amplifier (assuming you have a great amplifier) carry the load to the speakers. So, following that logic, I used an interconnect to the F-35 and turned the iPod volume down to 50-60% and turn up the Lightning. I realize I am double amping but I hear no distortion or artifacts at that volume level. As for the sound, it really opened up the soundstage as well as the overall clarity. I also have a good friend who has the RSA Intruder/iPod combination and he also now does this and agrees that improvement is substantial.
> 
> The key is you need the amplifier that has the power and engineering to accomplish this task without distortion or clipping. Just another reason why the F-35 Lightning truly is a superb amplifier.


 
 I'm confused by your setup.   the way it sounds, you are going from an iPod, to a dac, to the f35.  LOD's don't have DACs in them, and neither should a cable adaptor.  I don't know where the wolfson comes into play?  if your just going from the iPod into a lightning/30 pin adaptor, into the amp, you should be listening to the iPod DAC.  Just not the amp.  I'm sure I'm confused here.  Please explain your setup better.  specifically, where the DAC changes.


----------



## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> I'm confused by your setup.   the way it sounds, you are going from an iPod, to a dac, to the f35.  LOD's don't have DACs in them, and neither should a cable adaptor.  I don't know where the wolfson comes into play?  if your just going from the iPod into a lightning/30 pin adaptor, into the amp, you should be listening to the iPod DAC.  Just not the amp.  I'm sure I'm confused here.  Please explain your setup better.  specifically, where the DAC changes.




I am sorry if I was not clear. The Lightning to 30 pin adapter sold by Apple has a Wolfson DAC built into it. So if I use the adapter to an 30 pin LOD I am bypassing the Cirrus Logic DAC built into the iPod in favor of the Wolfson.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

spook76 said:


> I am sorry if I was not clear. The Lightning to 30 pin adapter sold by Apple has a Wolfson DAC built into it. So if I use the adapter to an 30 pin LOD I am bypassing the Cirrus Logic DAC built into the iPod in favor of the Wolfson.


 
 Huh, I wonder why they did that?  thanks for the clarification.


----------



## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> Huh, I wonder why they did that?  thanks for the clarification.




Keith,

Apple included the Wolfson chip because when you use the line out from any lightning iDevice you get a pure digital signal so either you have to use an external DAC or the Wolfson in the adapter.

Edit: I debated buying the RSA Intruder but then I would have needed to use the CCK camera kit to feed the Intruder a pure digital signal and I wanted to keep my rig as simple as possible. Also, the Lightning has received such great reviews.


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## Keithpgdrb

learn something new every day
  
 I'm still using my non lighting iPod with my rig.  with the f-35 as well.  great amp.


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## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> learn something new every day
> 
> I'm still using my non lighting iPod with my rig.  with the f-35 as well.  great amp.




Do you use an LOD? If so, get an interconnect so you can let the Lightning push the volume not the iPod.


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## Keithpgdrb

The lod I use takes line level and bypasses the amp in the iPod. It's the old kind.


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## HeadphoneAddict

I was the first to post a year and a half ago that the "lightning to 30-pin" adapter sounded like crap vs the headphone out of the iPhone 5.  It was dull with more midrange than bass or treble, and a small soundstage. 
  
 Unfortunately, the iPhone 4s line-out is still superior to whatever the iPhone 5 and 5s has in it that feeds the headphone out. The 4s LOD sound a little more refined and detailed, with better imaging, while the 5 and 5s are a little more mid-forward and aggressive sounding.  Not terrible, but not audiophile anymore.
  
 Because Apple doesn't have analog signal coming out of the lightning port, we were 1st stuck with whatever cheap POS DAC chip they put in the 30-pin adapter, until digital docks became abundant, including portable ones, although the cost was fairly prohibitive.  Then Apple started to allow the lightning>USB adapter to work with iPhone 5 and iOS 6 (aka Camera Connection Kit), and even my Pico DAC work with iPhone now.  That is a great source for the F-35 when portable.
  
 So, we have many more choices for feeding an iPhone 5 and 5s/5c into the F-35 lightning than the headphone out, which is still my second choice.  I still don't understand why apple can't offer a "30-pin adapter Pro" for 2x the cost that sounds as good as the LOD on an iPod 5th gen or 6th gen or iPhone 4s.  I have no idea what a current Nano ir Touch sound like these days.  The iPad air actually sounds a bit better than my iPhone 5 and now 5s, so maybe there is hope for Apple.


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## Lohb

Can the F35 be a decent desktop amp replacement ? Is there any comparable desktop amp it is similar to in overall quality ?


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## HeadphoneAddict

lohb said:


> Can the F35 be a decent desktop amp replacement ? Is there any comparable desktop amp it is similar to in overall quality ?


 
  
 I think that it could certainly be a desktop replacement amp.  It's hard to compare to other desktop amps because there are many areas to compare, such as power, sound signature, detail, soundstage.  So, while it's on the same level as many desktop amps, that doesn't mean they sound the same.
  
 It's warmer than my DACmini with a warm tone that's similar to the EF5 or Icon DAC.
 It's more powerful than my Woo WA6 but less powerful than my DACmini.
 It's soundstage is a little wider than the WA6 or EF5, while the DACmini probably comes close to it.
 It's not as bright as the DACmini in comparison, but on it's own it's not dark sounding.
 It's detail is probably very close to my maxed WA6 or DACmini, which are both slightly more detailed than the EF5.
 It's more forward sounding than the DACmini, but not as forward as the EF5.
 etc etc etc


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## Lohb

headphoneaddict said:


> I think that it could certainly be a desktop replacement amp.  It's hard to compare to other desktop amps because there are many areas to compare, such as power, sound signature, detail, soundstage.  So, while it's on the same level as many desktop amps, that doesn't mean they sound the same.
> 
> It's warmer than my DACmini with a warm tone that's similar to the EF5 or Icon DAC.
> It's more powerful than my Woo WA6 but less powerful than my DACmini.
> ...


 

 Excellent. It is also great it can take a SE input and make it balanced.
 Not seen any other portables that do that, though not sure how different it would be in SQ to a truly balanced DAC input.


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## HeadphoneAddict

lohb said:


> Excellent. It is also great it can take a SE input and make it balanced.
> Not seen any other portables that do that, though not sure how different it would be in SQ to a truly balanced DAC input.


 
  
 In my review (link in my signature) I found it very hard to discern a difference (with the F-35) between my PS Audio Perfectwave DAC's balanced XLR output vs the single-ended RCA output.  
  
 Others have commented that there is a difference in the PWD DAC's outputs if the amp is high-end enough to reveal all the subtleties.  Unless the amp has both XLR and RCA inputs it's hard to compare one DAC with one AMP with both inputs.  I do KNOW that the Woo WA22 amp is a bit worse with the RCA inputs vs the XLR inputs (regardless of DAC used, and regardless of which output is used).
  
 There are probably some DACs that are clearly better with XLR out vs RCA, but I can't recall which ones those are.  So, the F-35 doesn't seem to care about the input, unless you get one of those DACs with inferior RCA outputs.  Some balanced output DACs are just not as good as other single ended DACs, such as DACmagic balanced vs DACmini single ended.


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## Lohb

Does the male RSA-type connector click into the F-35 ? Is it easy for it to come out on its own if the cable is caught by accident etc ?


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## listen4joy

you should consider comapre the porthphile 627x against the rsa lighting 
  
 check it out
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/portaphile-micro-untexan/
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/possibly-the-best-the-627/


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## spook76

lohb said:


> Does the male RSA-type connector click into the F-35 ? Is it easy for it to come out on its own if the cable is caught by accident etc ?




The RSA connector is VERY securely connected to the Lightning. I am more worried about breaking the cable than the connector coming out if I catch the cable on something. I once had my portable rig dangling from my IEMs and the connector stayed in place.


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## Lohb

listen4joy said:


> you should consider comapre the porthphile 627x against the rsa lighting
> 
> check it out
> 
> ...


 

 Though it got too hot, had a big popping sound when the battery got too low ?


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## Keithpgdrb

listen4joy said:


> you should consider comapre the porthphile 627x against the rsa lighting
> 
> check it out
> 
> ...


 
 I didn't see that either of these are balanced.  so why would they be chosen over the lightning?  the sr71 maybe.


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## spook76

keithpgdrb said:


> I didn't see that either of these are balanced.  so why would they be chosen over the lightning?  the sr71 maybe.




I would not even go that far. That comparison is 2 years old and they compared the 627 against the old SR-71A.


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## Ray Samuels

listen4joy said:


> you should consider comapre the porthphile 627x against the rsa lighting
> 
> check it out
> 
> ...


 
 I have used the expensive OPA627BP nine years ago in my XP-7 in conjunction with BUF634 & offered it 10 years ago with my first amp the HR-2 as an option. It is a great chip but it has high input noise which I won't recommend it in now a days portable amp that are designed for IEMs.
 I read both of the links but I see no mention of the F-35, the lightning, which has some of the best lowest input noise op-amps that work great with IEMs. Also the lightning can swing in balanced around 32 volts p-p which is well needed to drive hard Ortho phones.
 Ray


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## Pappucho

ray samuels said:


> I have used the expensive OPA627BP nine years ago in my XP-7 in conjunction with BUF634 & offered it 10 years ago with my first amp the HR-2 as an option. It is a great chip but it has high input noise which I won't recommend it in now a days portable amp that are designed for IEMs.
> I read both of the links but I see no mention of the F-35, the lightning, which has some of the best lowest input noise op-amps that work great with IEMs. Also the lightning can swing in balanced around 32 volts p-p which is well needed to drive hard Ortho phones.
> Ray




if only we knew what opamps are u
sed in lightning so we can compare all of the specs.


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## Lohb

pappucho said:


> if only we knew what opamps are u
> sed in lightning so we can compare all of the specs.


 

 +me2 on that.


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## AmberOzL

I can't even believe that people still read headphonia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seriously who finds their review fair and honest?


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## SilverEars

amberozl said:


> I can't even believe that people still read headphonia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you expand on this?  What's going on with Headphonia?  Are they shady because they sell products?


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## Pappucho

silverears said:


> Can you expand on this?  What's going on with Headphonia?  Are they shady because they sell products?




Just to clarify, are you guys talking about headfonia.com or headphonia.com? These are two different sites.


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## AmberOzL

silverears said:


> Can you expand on this?  What's going on with Headphonia?  Are they shady because they sell products?


 

 Oh, I must apologize, my comment was based on this website: http://www.headfonia.com/
  
 As you can see I made a mistake and misremember the name. I don't know about Headphonia but I checked the website I think it is from headstage manufacturer which makes Arrow portable amp.
  
 As for the headfonia, I rather not to discuss here, my plain comment would be, just read their reviews and tell me these guys can be serious on this. Long time ago I stopped reading it and I don't even miss them.


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## listen4joy

i have dilema beetween  Centrance HiFi M8  and the rsa f-35 anyone know how they compare?


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## AmberOzL

M8 is dac/amp, F35 is only amp. What do you need, with what you are going to use?


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## listen4joy

with the amp


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## AmberOzL

If you gonna use it with amp why do you need F35? I don't get it what am I missing? Get M8 then, you can use its line out to add amp to the link but I don't really see the point of getting M8 and adding extra amp.


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## Lohb

Can anyone tell me the correct wiring for the Kobiconn for this amp ?
 I'm switching my cables over to the style of plug.
 Assuming the clip hole is "up" and the plug is installed on its side to allow better cable management....
 What would
 1
 2
 3
 4
 be for LR +/- in the RSA plugging system ?
  
 { EDIT : Incorrect numbering system annotated photo for Kobiconn plug removed }


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## SiGiE

lohb said:


> Can anyone tell me the correct wiring for the Kobiconn for this amp ?
> I'm switching my cables over to the style of plug.
> Assuming the clip hole is "up" and the plug is installed on its side to allow better cable management....
> What would
> ...


 
 Balanced connector pins assignment: Pin # one is Positive signal of left channel. Pin # three is the Negative signal of the left channel
 Pin # two is the Positive signal of the right channel. Pin # four is the Native signal of the right Channel.
  
 NOTE: Your number assignment seem to be incorrect.  Please follow the embossed number assignment  beside the soldering pin of the male connector/plug.


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## Lohb

sigie said:


> Balanced connector pins assignment: Pin # one is Positive signal of left channel. Pin # three is the Negative signal of the left channel
> Pin # two is the Positive signal of the right channel. Pin # four is the Native signal of the right Channel.
> 
> NOTE: Your number assignment seem to be incorrect.  Please follow the embossed number assignment  beside the soldering pin of the male connector/plug.


 

 I saw that already and can make no sense of the schematic drawing.....so that is why I posted a real plug with numbers attached and not a technical drawing which I cannot figure out is up down left or right view !


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## SiGiE

lohb said:


> I saw that already and can make no sense of the schematic drawing.....so that is why I posted a real plug with numbers attached and not a technical drawing which I cannot figure out is up down left or right view !


 
 From your labels, number 1 should be 4 and  number 4 should be 1.


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## Lohb

EDIT


----------



## SiGiE

21
 43
  
 +R +L
 -R  -L


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## SiGiE

21
 43
  
 +R +L
 -R  -L
  
 Please use orientation of your first picture
 The notch is on the top.
  
 Your second picture the notch is at the bottom
 Please be careful that the negative L and negative right never short-out as it can burn internal components


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## Lohb

OK, I did it like the first orientation, so I think this is it !


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## SiGiE

both top must be positive, both bottom are negative
 Switch your right channel positive and right channel negative
  
 Remember where the notch is, that is positive right channel and positive left channel
  
 should be
  
  
 +R     +L
 -R       -L


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## spook76

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know or have measured the output impedance of the F-35 Lightning?


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## Keithpgdrb

Don't know if its on his web page. Just write ray a note. He'll tell you, and you tell us.


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## jamato8

spook76 said:


> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know or have measured the output impedance of the F-35 Lightning?


 
 I think it is around 3 ohms, which doesn't change the sound but does provide some short circuit protection. I have used it with all types of phones and always had great results.


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## AmberOzL

jamato8 said:


> I think it is around 3 ohms, which doesn't change the sound but does provide some short circuit protection. I have used it with all types of phones and always had great results.


 

 Even with low impedance like SE846?


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## spook76

amberozl said:


> Even with low impedance like SE846?




I do not believe it is that high. I use it with my SE846 and if it was 3ohms I would expect the impedance mismatch to boost the lows and scooped out the mids which I certainly do not hear with my admittedly untrained ear. 

I posted the question out of curiosity. I remember when I bought my Lightning in January asking Ray if I would have a problem pairing it with the 8ohm 846 and received the rather vague answer of I should not have any problems. 

Please do not take this as a criticism, I think the Lighting is the best portable amp for IEMs currently available.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I would love someone to do a comparison between the Lightning, and the ALO International +....


----------



## elms

I can't seem to find my power adaptor for the F-35. Can somebody post a picture of the adaptor and the voltage/amp specs.
 Thanks in advance.


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## spook76

elms said:


> I can't seem to find my power adaptor for the F-35. Can somebody post a picture of the adaptor and the voltage/amp specs.
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lohb

Does the power unit for the F-35 only charge the battery, or is it used instead of the battery if the battery is already full ?
 I ask because I have an LPS unit that just so happens to match the voltage/output to F-35.
  
 I just missed out on picking one of these units last week.


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## Keithpgdrb

Having the power attached will work, but it adds noise. Keeping it connected is only recommended for burning in cables, the amp, the headphones, etc. the adapter is really only for charging. It's a portable amp. You know.


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## Lohb

keithpgdrb said:


> Having the power attached will work, but it adds noise. Keeping it connected is only recommended for burning in cables, the amp, the headphones, etc. the adapter is really only for charging. It's a portable amp. You know.


 

 I was looking to replace the noisier SMPS power block with a maybe quieter LPS.
 It would save the battery, using it 50% in a desktop situation.


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## CraftyClown

I've been spending far to much on gear recently so it comes with some regret that I'm going to have to sell my F-35. I just don't use it at the moment with my current set up, so although I'll probably regret it, it's now listed in the classifieds.
  
 Check my sig for details


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## CraftyClown

Ok, so last price drop on my F-35. Less than half what I paid for it from Ray 2 years ago.
  
 Only £225 so grab a bargain on an exceptional portable balanced amp


----------



## Mad Max

Anyone still using one of these?
Pretty sweet amp.


----------

