# Dragonfly COBALT vs.............Discussions



## Condocondor (Jul 8, 2019)

Ordered the Audioquest Dragonfly COBALT today.  Will be comparing how it stacks up to my iFi Micro iDSD Black Label.  Obviously, the iFi will trounce it but how will it stack up?  I had the DFR and it was sort of sibilant with edgy treble.  The COBALT will have the new ESS ES9038Q2M  DAC chip with a brand new controller chip that brings spaciousness, smoothness, and better dynamics over the DFR.  Stay tuned for my review.  We'll see how it pushes the HiFiMan Edition XX with a sensitivity of 93dB/mw.  The below link gives all the juicy details of the new COBALT:

https://www.audioquest.com/dacs/dragonfly/dragonfly-cobalt
____________________________________________________________________________


*About the ES9038Q2M  SABRE DAC*

The ES9038Q2M is a mobile version of the ES9038PRO, the PRO version is currently the benchmark in audio performance, and is the favored part in the audiophile community.
The ES9038Q2M SABRE DAC is a high-performance 32-bit digital to analog converter and uses the new patented 32-bit HyperStream II architecture previously only available in the PRO series of DACs. HyperStream II allows for the incredibly low noise that remains stable over all input levels, avoiding the noise modulation that can become perceptible in competing solutions. It also delivers a dynamic range (DNR) of up to 129dB and total harmonic distortion plus noise of -120dB (THD+N) – a performance level that will satisfy the most demanding audio enthusiasts.


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## Wheel Hoss

Was about to buy a Red. Finally I have good timing!

Thing is smaller, better sound, and basically has a Jitterbug built-in.

Check, please.


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## Condocondor (Jul 9, 2019)

John Darko Video Review of the COBALT Below:


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## artpiggo

No DSD and PCM limited to 24/96 ruins this tiny dongle.


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## lesanderson

artpiggo said:


> No DSD and PCM limited to 24/96 ruins this tiny dongle.



Both are niche limitations that the real world doesn't care about. audioquest is building these for scale, and that scale allows better components at lower pricing which produces better sound for 99.8% of listeners.


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## Ultrainferno

We got to play with it already!

Is it good and how does it compare to the RED? 
https://www.headfonia.com/audioquest-cobalt-review/


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## billbishere

Same Power as Red - Same OMP as Red 
DAC chip is nothing special
cost +100 over the red over a different DAC chip

PASS


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## megabigeye (Jul 9, 2019)

I hear the Cobalt was lapped at the Nurburgring by a '92 Camry. 

I hear AudioQuest launched it into low orbit but it exploded on re-entry, killing everybody on board. 

I hear neither the DFC nor Gordon Rankin has convinced anybody that Roger Penrose's ideas about the brain and consciousness are right. 

HARD PASS!!1!


Seriously though, I'm looking forward to reading more impressions from people that have actually heard it.  My DFR recently stopped working and the DFC's reduced battery draw is...  a... uh... _draw_.  I never found the DFR's sound to be lacking (except with higher impedance cans), so I'm curious how much better the new one could be (especially with regards to higher impedance cans).  I _do_ kind of wish they'd found a creative solution to the ergonomics, though.


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## joesuburb

I have some very high end headphones that are easy to drive.  I love the Red and wont go to a Mojo because of the form factor.  Will I hear a significant improvement with the Cobalt?  Hate to spend the money if my normal ears wont really hear an improvement.


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## billbishere

joesuburb said:


> I have some very high end headphones that are easy to drive.  I love the Red and wont go to a Mojo because of the form factor.  Will I hear a significant improvement with the Cobalt?  Hate to spend the money if my normal ears wont really hear an improvement.



I would say no considering the power output is the same and the only significant change is the DAC chip.  Even then that DAC chip is only a incremental upgrade from ESS as the red using a ESS chip one revision prior.

At this point speculation based off of the hardware is about the only answer to that question to people can start doing some side by side testing with the Red, Cobalt and even Black.  I am curious to know what the perception is between the red and cobalt, that is once it's gets past the first couple days of hype train!  Right now ya got all the die hard AQ people out talking about voodoo....  lol  I got jumped on instagram for pointing on the internals.

or and I got corrected on insta - it also has a new "shell".... lol


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## megabigeye (Jul 9, 2019)

Hey @Ultrainferno,
Thanks for the early impressions!
I've got some questions, if you can answer 'em.

I'm wondering what effect the 33% faster processing rate has on listening / general use?  ...If you know, of course.
What about battery draw?  Did you notice any difference between the DFC and DFR?  (I'd love it if you could include that in your final review!)  To me this is one of the main assets over the DFR.  With my old phones I'd only see a few extra percentage points off the battery, with my S9 it's almost unacceptably high.
Or the power source's noise rejection?
Have you (or will you) try it with higher impedance or harder to drive cans?

@joesuburb, check out Ultrainferno's impressions linked above, specifically page 2 has sound impressions.  My guess based on his mini-review (and Darko's video) is that you would hear a difference.  Whether or not that's worth the extra $100 is up to you, of course.


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## megabigeye

Anybody else with more impressions?  There's one user in the Black and Red thread who seems kinda underwhelmed by the Cobalt, so I'm wondering if anybody else has a take?


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## dbdynsty25

I’ve been using the DFB for about a year now and I just got my Cobalt today...the main reason was because I have some fairly hard to drive IEMs (Final Audio E5000) and I have another set on the way (TINHIFI P1) so I need a bit more overhead w my portable setup (Pixel 3).  At first listen, the only things I could really determine is that there is a bit less sub bass and the highs are a lot crisper (less fatiguing).  You can definitely tell the different in output power, so my initial goal was solved.  Was it solved 100 bucks better than the DFR, I doubt it, but I’m happy at this point.  The form factor is nicer and the official dragon tail is better than the regular usb > usb C cable I was using (fits better, higher quality).


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## The Socialist Nerd

Looks interesting but will be waiting on this...


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## Haden2866

I cam across an interesting comment from John Darko on his YouTube review. People were asking whether adding an AQ Jitterbug would further improve the performance of the Dragonfly Cobalt. JD said that he had been told directly by AQ that a Jitterbug should not be used with DF Cobalt, despite what it says on the packaging (which I haven't seen; presumably there's some mention of it). Make of that what you will. At least one UK retailer is actively promoting Jitterbug as an add-on.


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## Leo

Audioquest posted some comments on using the Cobalt with Jitterbug in their Instagram feed - they state use the Jitterbug in a different port and not to run the two serially (piggyback). The Cobalt has some filtering built-in but it doesn’t have an actual Jitterbug inside.


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## Tenashus1 (Jul 12, 2019)

Just received the Cobalt. I'm not sure I'm an "audiophile," but I can say the output is clear, and the separation is very good. To me, it's not $100 better than the Red, but that's just me. Not radically better sounding in my view though, again, I might be missing something. The biggest drawback with it is the fact that the copper colored connector on the unit I received is not solidly placed, but wiggles up and down some, which to me can portend a potential issue down the road. For this reason I will be returning this Cobalt as defective. All in all, so far I'm not jumping up and down over this one. Perhaps I'll give the sound a little bit more of a test before returning it should I want to replace it.


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## Condocondor (Jul 12, 2019)

Haden2866 said:


> I cam across an interesting comment from John Darko on his YouTube review. People were asking whether adding an AQ Jitterbug would further improve the performance of the Dragonfly Cobalt. JD said that he had been told directly by AQ that a Jitterbug should not be used with DF Cobalt, despite what it says on the packaging (which I haven't seen; presumably there's some mention of it). Make of that what you will. At least one UK retailer is actively promoting Jitterbug as an add-on.



I used both iSilencer and the iPurifier3 and noticed a fairly *significant* improvement with my COBALT when I used it as a desktop system out of my computer.  I noticed more relaxed sound with better spatial and soundstaging cues.


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## Tenashus1 (Jul 12, 2019)

That could probably work for the Red as well I'd imagine. Just tried it with both. Works fine with the Red. I'm not seeing great improvement with the Cobalt vs.the Red so far. What am I missing?

This is with the iPurifier 3.


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## Condocondor (Jul 12, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> That could probably work for the Red as well I'd imagine. Just tried it with both. Works fine with the Red. I'm not seeing great improvement with the Cobalt vs.the Red so far. What am I missing?
> 
> This is with the iPurifier 3.


 
Yes, I used BOTH devices with both DFR and DFC.  And from memory, the DFR did not respond as well or scale as well as the COBALT did with iSilencer/iPurifer3 combo.  What you're looking for is sound staging not clarity.  The clarity is already excellent.  It takes a good ear to hear the difference.  I'm very sensitive.  It just opens the sound up and makes it a little less congested or hard.  It just takes another teeny-tiny edge off and relaxes matters more.


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## Tenashus1

Does your Cobalt's copper connector wiggle or move within the housing? Mine does and it's concerning to me.


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## dbdynsty25

Tenashus1 said:


> Does your Cobalt's copper connector wiggle or move within the housing? Mine does and it's concerning to me.



Mine is completely solid.  Just exchange yours if it's loose.


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## Tenashus1

Thanks.


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## The Socialist Nerd

Tenashus1 said:


> Does your Cobalt's copper connector wiggle or move within the housing? Mine does and it's concerning to me.



That doesn't sound good. Personally I am pretty lazy so superglue is a winner here


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## Tenashus1

The Socialist Nerd said:


> That doesn't sound good. Personally I am pretty lazy so superglue is a winner here


Interesting idea there, but for $300 the real deal is preferred.


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## megabigeye (Jul 12, 2019)

@Tenashus1, how much is it wiggling?  My DFR had a very small amount of play that I was never quite enough to cause alarm...  Of course, my headphone plug eventually failed. (<< after two cocktails, somehow these two things are possibly connected. Maybe if you've had a drink on a Friday night you can make that connection, too)

@Condocondor, have you tried it with your HD 6XX yet?  Or has anybody tried the DFC with higher impedance Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics?  Especially the HD 650 or DT 1990?  I always found the DFR to be loud enough, but not quite resolving enough, or something.


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## Tenashus1

megabigeye said:


> @Tenashus1, how much is it wiggling?  My DFR had a very small amount of play that I was never quite enough to cause alarm...  Of course, my headphone plug eventually failed. (<< after two cocktails, somehow these two things are possibly connected. Maybe if you've had a drink on a Friday night you can make that connection, too)
> 
> @Condocondor,have you tried it with your HD 6XX yet?  Or has anybody tried the DFC with higher impedance Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics?  Especially the HD 650 or DT 1990?  I always found the DFR to be loud enough, but not quite resolving enough, or something.



Well, if I shake it, it will rattle some. With my fingers, it moves up and down, and side to side. Not cool or acceptable for me. My Red and Black are both solid. By the way, I've tried the DFC with the DT 770 Pro, 250 ohm, and the DT 990 Pro, 250 ohm and they both sound very good. I read somewhere that the 250 ohm Beyers actually require more power than the HD6XX.


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## megabigeye

Oh, yeah.  If it rattles send it back.  That doesn't sound good.  Mine had a very small amount of play, like at most a millimeter.

Good to know that it sounds good with your Beyers!  This is moving up on my list.


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## Tenashus1

Yes, if I can get hold of one that's solid, I may just keep it. It's sounding sweeter; especially with the iPurifier 3 attached. We shall see.


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## The Socialist Nerd

Tenashus1 said:


> Yes, if I can get hold of one that's solid, I may just keep it. It's sounding sweeter; especially with the iPurifier 3 attached. We shall see.



Sorry that I don't know but what is an iPurifier?


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## Tenashus1 (Jul 13, 2019)

The Socialist Nerd said:


> Sorry that I don't know but what is an iPurifier?


From ifi Audio. It filters out electrical noise coming from the computer in my case. Amazon sells it. So does B & H.


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## Haden2866

Condocondor said:


> I used both iSilencer and the iPurifier3 and noticed a fairly *significant* improvement with my COBALT when I used it as a desktop system out of my computer.  I noticed more relaxed sound with better spatial and soundstaging cues.


Thanks for your impression. Helps us build a picture.


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## technobear

Hmmm. Interesting thread. I seem to have entered a parallel universe where break-in and warm-up don't exist.

All the impressions and comparisons so far are worthless because:

1) All modern electronics require at least 200 hours break-in before achieving their best performance and may well go through 'growing pains' (i.e. sound rough at times) before they get there;

2) All electronics need at least a half-hour warm-up playing music before they sound anything like their best*. If you're doing serious comparisons, make that one hour.

This is not me repeating popular folk lore. This my direct experience over many years and many components.

I look forward to hearing how the DFC sounds and compares in about a month from now.


* and that includes the iPurifiers 2 and 3.


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## supadupaninja

Hi guys,

could you please check the LED color on your Cobalt at 88,2 and 96kHz?

The manual says: Amber: 88 2kHz Magenta: 96kHz

Mine is indicating like light green at 88,2 kHz instead of amber and something like light blue at 96kHz instead of magenta.
I think it might be faulty?


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## Condocondor

megabigeye said:


> [SIZE=14px]@Condocondor[/SIZE], have you tried it with your HD 6XX yet? Or has anybody tried the DFC with higher impedance Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics? Especially the HD 650 or DT 1990? I always found the DFR to be loud enough, but not quite resolving enough, or something.



The DFC has the same amp specs so if you were happy with the way it drove HD6xx then you'll be fine.  The HD6xx was not resolving enough for me...it wasn't the DFR which I tried them with.  I sold my pair off several months ago.  Need to update my profile.


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## Tenashus1

Condocondor said:


> The DFC has the same amp specs so if you were happy with the way it drove HD6xx then you'll be fine.  The HD6xx was not resolving enough for me...it wasn't the DFR which I tried them with.  I sold my pair off several months ago.  Need to update my profile.



So much hype with the HD6XX - off topic but true.


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## Condocondor

@technobear:

I agree that electronics need to be warmed up.  I've noticed with my iDSD BL that 40 minutes seems to be optimal.  Point taken.  I've done that.  200 hours to be broken in?  Yep, not done that with either the DFR or DFC.  Sold the DFR.  Worthless comparisons?  Not worthless but not complete either.


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## megabigeye

Condocondor said:


> The DFC has the same amp specs so if you were happy with the way it drove HD6xx then you'll be fine.  The HD6xx was not resolving enough for me...it wasn't the DFR which I tried them with.  I sold my pair off several months ago.  Need to update my profile.


Well, I wasn't quite happy. Like I said, it got loud enough, but something was just missing. Sorry to be so vague, it's been a while and the DFR is currently out of commission, so I can't really revisit it. I was mostly wondering if it was a power issue, or something different. If it's power, then the DFC will likely be the same; if it's something else, there's a chance the DFC would be better.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.


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## Condocondor

megabigeye said:


> Well, I wasn't quite happy. Like I said, it got loud enough, but something was just missing. Sorry to be so vague, it's been a while and the DFR is currently out of commission, so I can't really revisit it. I was mostly wondering if it was a power issue, or something different. If it's power, then the DFC will likely be the same; if it's something else, there's a chance the DFC would be better.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your reply.



*Honestly, you need more amp.*


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## teknorob23 (Jul 15, 2019)

At about 75 hrs of run in i've been listening pretty intensively to the DF cobalt for a day or so now. For the record im a believer when it comes to burn in with pretty much every component involved in sound reproduction, but the amount of time required and the amount of change in the sound does vary drastically. Now either the DFC hasnt burned in at all, or it falls into the camp of not much change, because i cant hear a massive amount of difference compared to when it was fresh out of the box. There maybe a bit more extension and control in the low end plus the mids sound a bit more fluid, but these are definitely not what i'd call night and day differences. By comparison i've been burning in a Neotech UPOCC silver HP cable i made last week which after 150 hours sounds like a different cable (sorry i couldnt help myself pulling the pin out of the cable/snake oil hand grenade with this comment  ), with lovely deep bass and full bodied mids, where neither existed before.

Anyway with the fire light, i'll quickly scurry back on topic. I've been listening to mainly electronic music, with the DFC plugged in to both my iphone and mac with Focal stellias on the other end. I have also spent a good few hours A-Bing with my trusty and much loved DF red. First off they're tuning sounds slightly different to my ears. The red, to my ears, is slightly warmer/ fuller and maybe a tad more organic sounding, whereas the cobalt is closer to neutral with cleaner airier more uncluttered presentation. Theres definitely more width with extension at both end and the improvement in seperation is instantly noticeable. across the whole range. The sound is a bit more dynamic and weighty but maybe lacks some of the organic charm that has made the red+iphoneX the go to (or repeatedly come back to) combo over any of the DAPs i've dabbled with over the last 18 months or so. Despite all this and now having spent a bit of time with the cobalt, going back to the red it sadly sounds muddy, congested and a bit noisy.

The low noise floe and reduction in RFI is something worth dwelling as i speculate this might be one of the biggest contributing factors to the Cobalts overall performance. The red is noticeably improved with the addition of spattering jitterbugs (especially noticeable with my mac as the source but then again the listening environment is generally quieter and more conducive to noticing such things), whereas the cobalt seems much quieter and having tried various combinations the jitterbugs, they seem to have little or negligible effect. Even with the iphone i'm hearing much more of the music, lots more micro details and room between the instruments, even at pretty moderate volume levels.

Is it worth £100 more? well to me yes because after 25 years of 2 channel listening i've come to terms with diminishing returns and in this the function of the cobalt is as good as its form is useful, and i'm not so tempted to pack my Hugo2 when i head off another work trip tomorrow plus the nagging um'ing and ah'ing in the back of my head as to whether of not to buy another Mojo has been put firmly to bed (i prefer the presentation of the DFC and i dont need the added power). I should caveat the H2 statement with a disclaimer that there maybe a tiny bit of new-toy syndrome going on here, but i can let you know when i get back if it was missed or not! 



An imperfect audio world


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## Haden2866

teknorob23 said:


> At about 75 hrs of run in i've been listening pretty intensively to the DF cobalt for a day or so now. For the record im a believer when it comes to burn in with pretty much every component involved in sound reproduction, but the amount of time required and the amount of change in the sound does vary drastically. Now either the DFC hasnt burned in at all, or it falls into the camp of not much change, because i cant hear a massive amount of difference compared to when it was fresh out of the box. There maybe a bit more extension and control in the low end plus the mids sound a bit more fluid, but these are definitely not what i'd call night and day differences. By comparison i've been burning in a Neotech UPOCC silver HP cable i made last week which after 150 hours sounds like a different cable (sorry i couldnt help myself pulling the pin out of the cable/snake oil hand grenade with this comment  ), with lovely deep bass and full bodied mids, where neither existed before.
> 
> Anyway with the fire light, i'll quickly scurry back on topic. I've been listening to mainly electronic music, with the DFC plugged in to both my iphone and mac with Focal stellias on the other end. I have also spent a good few hours A-Bing with my trusty and much loved DF red. First off they're tuning sounds slightly different to my ears. The red, to my ears, is slightly warmer/ fuller and maybe a tad more organic sounding, whereas the cobalt is closer to neutral with cleaner airier more uncluttered presentation. Theres definitely more width with extension at both end and the improvement in seperation is instantly noticeable. across the whole range. The sound is a bit more dynamic and weighty but maybe lacks some of the organic charm that has made the red+iphoneX the go to (or repeatedly come back to) combo over any of the DAPs i've dabbled with over the last 18 months or so. Despite all this and now having spent a bit of time with the cobalt, going back to the red it sadly sounds muddy, congested and a bit noisy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your impression. I haven't heard any of the DF's but I'm very interested in the Cobalt to use on the go with Tidal out of my iPhone. I was leaning towards an IFi Nano B/L as I am generally a fan of the Burr Brown sound, if there is such a thing, but having something with no battery to manage would be very welcome. I had a Mojo for 18 months and sold it but don't miss it - technically a powerhouse and a marvel of detail retrieval but perhaps lacking a little vibe for me. John Darko talks about DFC being more relaxed- sounding than Mojo which appeals.
Let us know if you perceive any further changes in presentation with more hours on the clock.


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## joesuburb

Haden2866 said:


> Thanks for your impression. I haven't heard any of the DF's but I'm very interested in the Cobalt to use on the go with Tidal out of my iPhone. I was leaning towards an IFi Nano B/L as I am generally a fan of the Burr Brown sound, if there is such a thing, but having something with no battery to manage would be very welcome. I had a Mojo for 18 months and sold it but don't miss it - technically a powerhouse and a marvel of detail retrieval but perhaps lacking a little vibe for me. John Darko talks about DFC being more relaxed- sounding than Mojo which appeals.
> Let us know if you perceive any further changes in presentation with more hours on the clock.



Don't disregard the form factor of the Dragonfly.  I never ended up actually using external DACs with my iphone because I had to keep them charged or they were just too clunky in my pocket.  I actually use my dragonfly red because of how small it is.


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## Haden2866

joesuburb said:


> Don't disregard the form factor of the Dragonfly.  I never ended up actually using external DACs with my iphone because I had to keep them charged or they were just too clunky in my pocket.  I actually use my dragonfly red because of how small it is.


Definitely. Small is the new big.


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## Haden2866

Here's my current portable rig, so anything's gonna be an improvement, form-factor wise.


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## teknorob23

Haden2866 said:


> Thanks for your impression. I haven't heard any of the DF's but I'm very interested in the Cobalt to use on the go with Tidal out of my iPhone. I was leaning towards an IFi Nano B/L as I am generally a fan of the Burr Brown sound, if there is such a thing, but having something with no battery to manage would be very welcome. I had a Mojo for 18 months and sold it but don't miss it - technically a powerhouse and a marvel of detail retrieval but perhaps lacking a little vibe for me. John Darko talks about DFC being more relaxed- sounding than Mojo which appeals.
> Let us know if you perceive any further changes in presentation with more hours on the clock.



It’s form is huge,if you’ll pardon the oxymoron, plus and as for comparisons with mojo, I don’t have one to compare now, but my daily home listening is with the hugo2 and I’d say there’s more similarities in style of presentation to that than the mojo. Obvs the h2 is a long way ahead in overall performance, but one of things I love most about it is how coherently it presents so much detail with a natural liquidity. The DFC to my ears has a similarly coherent easy presentation, that’s really well separated, whilst maintaining focus. I haven’t listened to the ifi DACs for a while so I can’t really comment there, but as you say it’s definitely easier on the pocket and you can leave your battery at home


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## Leo

Tenashus1 said:


> Does your Cobalt's copper connector wiggle or move within the housing? Mine does and it's concerning to me.



Same issue with my unit. It shipped from Music Direct - took 5 days get here thanks to a FedEx delay of a day. Unit is loose and has an audible rattle. Not pleased. Waiting on a RMA notice from Music Direct/FedEx to ship it back and maybe have a working unit within 2 weeks (depends on shipping turnaround). I live in Irvine and local Audioquest company doesn’t take returns.


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## Tenashus1 (Jul 15, 2019)

Leo said:


> Same issue with my unit. It shipped from Music Direct - took 5 days get here thanks to a FedEx delay of a day. Unit is loose and has an audible rattle. Not pleased. Waiting on a RMA notice from Music Direct/FedEx to ship it back and maybe have a working unit within 2 weeks (depends on shipping turnaround). I live in Irvine and local Audioquest company doesn’t take returns.


Definitely not cool QC. I'm waiting for my second one too from a different dealer. I'm not ecstatic over the DFC so far, but I'm curious enough to give it a fair shot. I have the DFR as well as an ifi Nano BL and xDSD. For $300, the DFC is going to have to prove itself mightily to me for me to hold onto it.


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## Leo

Yeah, I let the folks at Audioquest know about the issue, but they could only recommend me returning it to the merchant. So hopefully the next unit doesn't have the same issue. If it does then I'm done for now and wait out this round.


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## paulgc

Tenashus1 said:


> Just received the Cobalt. I'm not sure I'm an "audiophile," but I can say the output is clear, and the separation is very good. To me, it's not $100 better than the Red, but that's just me. Not radically better sounding in my view though, again, I might be missing something. The biggest drawback with it is the fact that the copper colored connector on the unit I received is not solidly placed, but wiggles up and down some, which to me can portend a potential issue down the road. For this reason I will be returning this Cobalt as defective. All in all, so far I'm not jumping up and down over this one. Perhaps I'll give the sound a little bit more of a test before returning it should I want to replace it.


Mine does the same a bit. Is it normal?


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## Tenashus1

All I know is that I have a Red and a Black that are completely solid with no wiggling. Someone else on this board reported that their Cobalt was completely solid as well with no movement or rattling. Seems like a defect in manufacture to me. So I returned mine. Waiting for a new one.


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## Hifiearspeakers

Reposting this here from another Cobalt thread:

Ok so here’s my take on the Cobalt. I love it and I think It’s worth every penny. But there is a caveat. I only recommend it if you find your audio chain a little bright. Because of the smoother treble tone, the Cobalt would probably make a darker headphone sound too dull. For example, I don’t think it would pair well with a Nighthawk/Nightowl, ZMF Verité, or Ether 2.

I find the Cobalt slightly warmer than the Red, slightly more mid forward, and with a noticeably smoother treble. And it does all of that while still sounding more detailed, with more defined layering, and an easily heard wider soundstage. Compared to the Red, the soundstage sounds closer to you but with greater width. I’ve heard a few early impressions describe the Cobalt as more U-shaped than the Red. I don’t hear that at all. The mids (vocals) sound slightly more forward and clearer. Actually, everything sounds clearer.

I liked the smoother treble so much that I even decided to test it with my 800S. And it didn’t disappoint! Even though I know my 800S is being underpowered by the Cobalt, I still preferred it to my Jotunheim/multibit. The Sabre glare is gone with the Cobalt! The Jot is just too bright with the 800S.

I also tested it with my son’s Fidelio X2HR, which I also find a little bright. Again, it made everything sound wider, more articulate, and with a much better behaved treble end. The X2HR is already known for a wide soundstage (but not as wide as my beloved 800S, Ha!), but the Cobalt pushed it out even further.
Even underpowered, the Cobalt put a wider soundstage on my 800S than my friends IFI Micro Black Label. So take that any way you want.

So in conclusion, unless you already own darker headphones or a darker chain, I can’t recommend this little dac/amp enough. It sounds excellent and has an amazing form-factor for portability. I’m an admitted soundstage junkie, which is why I love the 800S so much. And let me tell you, the Cobalt really accentuates that. It just takes every detail, adds more separation, and pushes it all out further.

The hype is real!

P.S. My USB end does not wiggle at all. Not a picometer of give. So I would definitely send it back if that’s happening to yours.


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## megabigeye

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Reposting this here from another Cobalt thread:
> 
> Ok so here’s my take on the Cobalt. I love it and I think It’s worth every penny. But there is a caveat. I only recommend it if you find your audio chain a little bright. Because of the smoother treble tone, the Cobalt would probably make a darker headphone sound too dull. For example, I don’t think it would pair well with a Nighthawk/Nightowl, ZMF Verité, or Ether 2.
> 
> ...


I'm a little unclear, is this your experience or somebody else's?  If it's you, have you tried it with any darker headphones?  Some of my headphones/IEMs (PM-3, UM Pro 50) are on the darker side, so I'm curious about this.  One of my amps that relaxes the DT 1990's treble actually emphasizes the PM-3's treble.  I assume that this is because what appears at first as "darker" (for my amp, anyway) is actually something else, say, "smoothness" or perhaps euphonic distortion...  I wonder if maybe the DFC is the same.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

megabigeye said:


> I'm a little unclear, is this your experience or somebody else's?  If it's you, have you tried it with any darker headphones?  Some of my headphones/IEMs (PM-3, UM Pro 50) are on the darker side, so I'm curious about this.  One of my amps that relaxes the DT 1990's treble actually emphasizes the PM-3's treble.  I assume that this is because what appears at first as "darker" (for my amp, anyway) is actually something else, say, "smoothness" or perhaps euphonic distortion...  I wonder if maybe the DFC is the same.



This is my post from a different Cobalt thread. I haven’t heard it with any darker headphones, yet. I just know that it makes all of my headphones sound noticeably less bright than the Dragonfly Red, which for my preferences, is a very good thing. I just don’t know if I’d want that signature if my headphones were already tilted darker and/or smoother in the top end. YMMV.


----------



## megabigeye

Gotcha.  Thanks.


----------



## Condocondor (Jul 16, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Even underpowered, the Cobalt put a wider soundstage on my 800S than my friends IFI Micro Black Label. So take that any way you want.



I have the iFi Micro iDSD BL and the Cobalt also.  My BL is tricked out with iGalvanic3.0, iPower, iSilencer, iDefender, iPurifer3, etc. and my experience is the exact opposite.  The Cobalt cannot match the BL's sound stage at all--even with all the above junk attached.   Perhaps what I mean to say is that the Cobalt does not scale like the Micro iDSD BL does.  I'd have loved to know what music tracks he was listening to.  Damn it, now I'll have to retest and compare to make sure again.  I'll report back on this comparison.....hence the "vs" in this thread's starter's title name.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Condocondor said:


> I have the iFi Micro iDSD BL and the Cobalt also.  My BL is tricked out with iGalvanic3.0, iPower, iSilencer, iDefender, iPurifer3, etc. and my experience is the exact opposite.  The Cobalt cannot match the BL's sound stage at all--even with all the above junk attached.   Perhaps what I mean to say is that the Cobalt does not scale like the Micro iDSD BL does.  I'd have loved to know what music tracks he was listening to.  Damn it, now I'll have to retest and compare to make sure again.  I'll report back on this comparison.....hence the "vs" in this threat starter's name.



I listened to a variety of tracks from Babe I’m Gonna Leave You by Zeppelin, Tin Pan Alley by SRV, Patience by G&R, Your Decision by Alice In Chains, Gravity by Alison Krauss, Sleep Alone by Bat For Lashes, Don’t Let Me Down by the Chainsmokers, Wicked Game by Chris Isaak, Long After You’re Gone by Chris Jones, and Two Suns in the Sunset by Pink Floyd. 

I stand by my impressions. I was very surprised and very impressed by the Cobalt. In fact, I just sold my Dragonfly Red this morning.


----------



## Haden2866

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I stand by my impressions. I was very surprised and very impressed by the Cobalt. In fact, I just sold my Dragonfly Red this morning.


This is very encouraging. I'm gonna wait until there's a few more impressions with fully burned-in units then I'm gonna be like


----------



## Condocondor (Jul 16, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I stand by my impressions. I was very surprised and very impressed by the Cobalt. In fact, I just sold my Dragonfly Red this morning.



I too am very impressed with the Dragonfly Cobalt!  It is much better than the DFR.  It's *not* better, in any catagory, than my iFi Micro iDSD BL.  Nope.  What is really incredible about the COBALT is how close it does come...... and how damn small it is.  It's very damn small...lol.  It IS worth it's asking price considering it's size and what it does.  I've not tried it with MQA yet.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Condocondor said:


> I too am very impressed with the Dragonfly Cobalt!  It is much better than the DFR.  It's *not* better, in any catagory, than my iFi Micro iDSD BL.  Nope.  What is really incredible about the COBALT is how close it does come...... and how damn small it is.  It's very damn small...lol.  It IS worth it's asking price considering it's size and what it does.  I've not tried it with MQA yet.



I wouldn’t call the Cobalt BETTER than the Micro BL. That thing is a beautiful powerhouse of an amp with a far greater ability to drive a multitude of cans. But I PREFERRED the sound of the Cobalt more than the Micro BL with my 800S, because it had a smoother treble presentation and a slightly wider soundstage. And that shocked me because at 300 ohms impedance, I know that my 800S was not getting enough juice to be driven properly by the Cobalt. 

I also tested the Micro Silver against the Cobalt and arrived at the same conclusion. I’m only talking specifically about the 800S and Fidelio X2HR, which are known to be brighter cans. If I still had my LCD 4Z, I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Dragonfly Cobalt _*Vs*_ iBasso DC01 PLEASE!


----------



## FastAndClean

for 100$ you can get usb dac with double chips, volume control, digital filters, 3.5mm out, balanced 2.5mm out, plays all formats and it is crushing dragonfly red already


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

FastAndClean said:


> for 100$ you can get usb dac with double chips, volume control, digital filters, 3.5mm out, balanced 2.5mm out, plays all formats and it is crushing dragonfly red already




What Product are you referring to?


----------



## FastAndClean

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> What Product are you referring to?


Sabaj DA3


----------



## Haden2866

FastAndClean said:


> Sabaj DA3


Doesn't work with either iOS or Android though, does it?


----------



## Victorfabius

Haden2866 said:


> Doesn't work with either iOS or Android though, does it?



If I'm not mistaken, the Sabaj DA3 consumes 5 times the power of the DFB, and one of the benefits of the DFC is it's lower power consumption. Even if it works with iOS or Android, it might not be a good portable solution.

I think the DA3 does work with some Android phones, and I haven't yet found information on it's compatibility with iOS, but a lot of my search results are in a foreign language right now.

I'm not saying that the DA3 isn't an excellent DAC (without regard to price), but it's got a different use case than the Dragonfly Black, Red, or Cobalt. The DA3 looks like a better laptop/PC companion than a smartphone DAC.

I'm more interested in the Cobalt for the power savings and portability, which are very much more in Dragonfly's favor.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Ready for Cobalt vs Mojo yet?


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

I really love this Cobalt. This is one of the best audio purchases I’ve ever made. Bravo Audioquest!!!


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Wheel Hoss said:


> Ready for Cobalt vs Mojo yet?




My Dude, Do us all the favor. Its instock at Audio46


----------



## Tenashus1

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I really love this Cobalt. This is one of the best audio purchases I’ve ever made. Bravo Audioquest!!!



What do you love about it. Can you elaborate a bit? Thanks.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Tenashus1 said:


> What do you love about it. Can you elaborate a bit? Thanks.



Check a few posts back. I did a complete review of it. If after reading that you want to know anything else, then just ask.


----------



## Tenashus1

Didn't notice that you were the same person. Thanks.


----------



## NZtechfreak (Jul 17, 2019)

Victorfabius said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the Sabaj DA3 consumes 5 times the power of the DFB, and one of the benefits of the DFC is it's lower power consumption. Even if it works with iOS or Android, it might not be a good portable solution.
> 
> I think the DA3 does work with some Android phones, and I haven't yet found information on it's compatibility with iOS, but a lot of my search results are in a foreign language right now.
> 
> ...



This ^^^

All too often I see people comparing products where the use-case scenarios are quite different.

I've had the 1.2 for a long time and love the form factor, but certainly if I can have better sound with lower power draw from my mobile devices in the same kind of form factor I'm interested.

Regards the form factor, I see some people lamenting the full-sized USB - I absolutely prefer connecting the Dragonfly to my phone via a cable, rather than direct. I worry a lot less about traumatising the connector on both sides that way and find it more manageable for pocket carry that way. My laptop and PC still have full-sized USB-A ports, rather than USB-C and I prefer connecting direct to those devices. So for me, in my use, it is ideal already. For someone with USB-C connectors on their laptop I can see how a direct connection would be preferable - I do think it would be nice if there was the option to buy the Dragonfly with a USB-C connector for that use-case for those where this is applicable.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

NZtechfreak said:


> This ^^^
> 
> All too often I see people comparing products where the use-case scenarios are quite different.
> 
> ...



I don’t see what the big deal is. It comes with a dragon tail for USB C.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I don’t see what the big deal is. It comes with a dragon tail for USB C.



Sure, it's fine, but different strokes etc. I definitely prefer being able to connect direct to my non-phone sources, so I can see why those with USB-C ports would want that. Given USB-C uptake is finally starting to become ubiquitous I think it reasonable for some people to want this, would like to see the option available. While the option isn't there people who feel strongly about this will simply put their hard-earned elsewhere, totally fair enough. Options aren't bad to have right?


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

NZtechfreak said:


> Sure, it's fine, but different strokes etc. I definitely prefer being able to connect direct to my non-phone sources, so I can see why those with USB-C ports would want that. Given USB-C uptake is finally starting to become ubiquitous I think it reasonable for some people to want this, would like to see the option available. While the option isn't there people who feel strongly about this will simply put their hard-earned elsewhere, totally fair enough. Options aren't bad to have right?



Options are great! But I guess since I use my iPhone for portable listening, I’ve never been able to connect directly, either with the Cobalt or Red. So I guess I can’t miss what I’ve never had. 

I was just pointing out that it’s nice that they include a dragon tail for Android users so you don’t have to go out and purchase another accessory in order to use the Cobalt. But even with USB A, iPhone users still have to purchase the camera connection kit.


----------



## megabigeye

NZtechfreak said:


> Regards the form factor, I see some people lamenting the full-sized USB - I absolutely prefer connecting the Dragonfly to my phone via a cable, rather than direct. I worry a lot less about traumatising the connector on both sides that way and find it more manageable for pocket carry that way. My laptop and PC still have full-sized USB-A ports, rather than USB-C and I prefer connecting direct to those devices. So for me, in my use, it is ideal already. For someone with USB-C connectors on their laptop I can see how a direct connection would be preferable - I do think it would be nice if there was the option to buy the Dragonfly with a USB-C connector for that use-case for those where this is applicable.


Are you thinking of my post from the other Dragonfly thread?  I don't think I've seen anybody else here mention the USB.
If you were talking about my post, I meant having a USB-C socket, not a plug, so that you would use a short cable or adapter.  I think I was just thinking that this way they could have made it a little less cumbersome and put the USB and headphone jacks next to each other, which, in my opinion, would solve the ergonomics problem.

I don't usually comment on designs that are already released.  That's like crying over spilt milk.  If I remember, I think I was mostly complaining because I needed more coffee.


----------



## NZtechfreak (Jul 17, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> Are you thinking of my post from the other Dragonfly thread?  I don't think I've seen anybody else here mention the USB.
> If you were talking about my post, I meant having a USB-C socket, not a plug, so that you would use a short cable or adapter.  I think I was just thinking that this way they could have made it a little less cumbersome and put the USB and headphone jacks next to each other, which, in my opinion, would solve the ergonomics problem.
> 
> I don't usually comment on designs that are already released.  That's like crying over spilt milk.  If I remember, I think I was mostly complaining because I needed more coffee.



May have been, read too many threads, pretty sure a couple of people had mentioned it. As you say, crying over spilt milk. Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about things here at all, perfect for my use-cases, just that I can see how some people might want it differently. I try to be mindful that everyone's needs are different, and I don't feel entitled to dictate to other people how they should go about things because I prefer something else (not accusing anyone of doing that here particularly, but it's a pretty common occurrence in general).


----------



## megabigeye

...Oh yeah, and I recently leaned that USB-C has an analog audio mode, which is how most phone dongles work, and I was thinking it'd be cool if they could have implemented that in some way so that the DFC could be used for voice calls.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> My Dude, Do us all the favor. Its instock at Audio46



Gonna buy it soon. Just have to pay for a move, then it’s mine.

So sooner or later you’ll get a comparison.


----------



## Saberlarry

I'm interested in the DFC, tried the DFR a few weeks ago for about half an hour with my iPhone X and was not that impressed, maybe there were several factors:
- My music library consists of either iTunes purchases, which account for 97-98% of my storage, or 320 kbps mp3/Spotify premium => Maybe testing on lossless files or Tidal would be easier to notice details?
- I used a custom-made adapter (not Apple's product). As far as I know, the DFR has problems with the thin Apple cable and the DFR manual even tells you to use the big one for the best audio experience.

Overall I feel like there was little to no difference between the Lightning to 3.5 cable from Apple and the DFR, but keep in mind I am nowhere an audiophile or whatsoever. I just want to have the best portable listening experience on my phone and other devices. My IEMs are Astell&Kern Billie Jean, which I find good enough for my usage. So the question is, technically, if you look at my IEMs specifications + current setup, is the DFC worth it? Or do I have to replace my library with better music files and app? (heard Onkyo is a good one for lossless listening). Thanks!


----------



## Gus141

Anyone else not getting a magenta color on the LED for 96kHz music? My LED is white for 96kHz. I get all the other colors as described in the manual but 96kHz tracks make the Cobalt’s LED show white. Now, maybe it’s just a really faded magenta, but I’ve changed out enough printer cartridges to know what magenta looks like. Just thought I’d ask. I’ll post in other forums as well and report back.


----------



## supadupaninja

I mentioned this fact already in post #34. Unfortunately nobody answered. 

Mine was obviously indicating like light/white green at 88,2 kHz instead of amber and something like light/white blue at 96kHz instead of magenta. 

Don’t know if this is an issue. But either the LED color on the unit or the manual is wrong as I’m definitely not color blind.


----------



## Gus141

supadupaninja said:


> I mentioned this fact already in post #34. Unfortunately nobody answered.
> 
> Mine was obviously indicating like light/white green at 88,2 kHz instead of amber and something like light/white blue at 96kHz instead of magenta.
> 
> Don’t know if this is an issue. But either the LED color on the unit or the manual is wrong as I’m definitely not color blind.


Just went back and read all the posts; sorry I missed your post #34 before. I also agree 88.2kHz isn’t exactly amber either; I have a neon-yellow-green (nice color actually, but far from amber). And your description of 96kHz as light/white blue perfectly matches what I’m seeing. Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## Gus141

A couple of people responded in an Audiophile Style forum that they also see LED behavior that doesn’t match the manual. At least I know it’s not a problem with my DFC.


----------



## naqvc

I'm really tempted to buy these but the price is putting me off as I can purchase a 6 months old used Chord Mojo for cheaper.  I will wait for comparison reviews before deciding.  I have the iFi iDSD Black Label which is awesome but need something more portable for phones/ipad.
I wish they had priced it £199.


----------



## joshnor713

naqvc said:


> I'm really tempted to buy these but the price is putting me off as I can purchase a 6 months old used Chord Mojo for cheaper.  I will wait for comparison reviews before deciding.  I have the iFi iDSD Black Label which is awesome but need something more portable for phones/ipad.
> I wish they had priced it £199.



I'm in the exact same position. Have the Mojo (+Poly) and iDSD BL as well. Would love the Cobalt for an extra level of portability, but no way at this price. Not hurting for it fortunately. Can wait til the price drops in the future.


----------



## jnorris

joshnor713 said:


> I'm in the exact same position. Have the Mojo (+Poly) and iDSD BL as well. Would love the Cobalt for an extra level of portability, but no way at this price. Not hurting for it fortunately. Can wait til the price drops in the future.




Don't hold your breath waiting for the price to drop.  Audioquest doesn't do that.


----------



## megabigeye (Jul 18, 2019)

Hey @supadupaninja and @Gus141,
If the light is a concern you guys, you should drop AudioQuest an e-mail and see what they have to say about it.  I've found their customer support to be pretty responsive, even though it took something like 48 hours for them to reply.  The Cobalt is new enough that they may not even be aware of this problem, so you might want to point them to this thread and wherever else people have been talking about it.

@Saberlarry, whether or not you can tell a difference between a decent DAC and your iPhone depends on a few things:
1) the actual difference— personally, I can hear a distinct difference between my DFR and my Samsung S9, though between the DFR and my MacBook Air, the difference is very subtle, to say the least; I don't use an iPhone, so can't speak directly to it, but there are plenty of people in the other DragonFly thread that can hear a difference.
2) other equipment, including files and playback software— I've not heard the Billie Jeans, but I've read a few reviews and I don't doubt that they're resolving enough to hear a difference if you know what you're looking for; as regards the files, each person's hearing acuity is certainly different, but I'd be a little surprised if you could actually hear a difference between 256kbps MP3 and lossless, especially if you're not an audiophile "whatsoever."  The difference between 256kbps and 320kbps MP3 or lossless is extremely subtle, and the difference between 320kbps and lossless is, for all intents and purposes, non-existant.  Spotify, on the other hand...  Well, they claim that their "Very High" quality streaming is 320kbps (though I'm not sure if it's MP3, OGG, or what), but to me it sometimes (but certainly not always) sounds a bit compressed, though I don't have any equivalent files to do a comparison.  My point is not to sweat the 256kbps files from iTunes, but maybe double check stuff on Spotify...  Now that I'm thinking about it, are the files from iTunes MP3 or AAC?  AAC 256 are actually about equivalent to MP3 320, and therefore almost completely indistinguishable from lossless.  I have found a difference in playback apps—  on android UAPP sounds a lot better than Google Play Music— so it might be a good idea to trial the Onkyo player if you can do it for free.
3) Yourself— you say you're not an audiophile, but you've already bought some pretty good IEMs and you're thinking about a DAC/amp, which means you're _interested in good sound_.  Guess what that makes you?  An audiophile!  Maybe not, like, King Audiophile, but more like an audiophile squire, or something.  You're learning.  Anyway, part of being able to distinguish between equipment is learning what to look for.  My best advice in learning what to look for is to listen, just relax and listen _to the music_.  I think the best advice I've seen is to not listen to how it sounds, but to pay attention to how it makes you feel.  Another funny thing about comparing audio equipment is that it's often very difficult to tell the difference when going from a decent component to a great component, but it's much easier to tell when you go from great to decent.  This makes it kind of difficult to get a good sense of a piece of equipment if you're only listening to it for a few minutes, like at a store or show, or whatever.  You really have to have sufficient time for your ears and brain to adjust and you have to be able to relax.

Anyway.  Hope this all helps.


----------



## joshnor713

jnorris said:


> Don't hold your breath waiting for the price to drop.  Audioquest doesn't do that.



Not from Audioquest, from merchants. Sales happen.


----------



## Haden2866

naqvc said:


> I'm really tempted to buy these but the price is putting me off as I can purchase a 6 months old used Chord Mojo for cheaper.  I will wait for comparison reviews before deciding.  I have the iFi iDSD Black Label which is awesome but need something more portable for phones/ipad.
> I wish they had priced it £199.


I had a Mojo for 18 months and, with an iPhone, it was a pain to manage a battery and two additional cables (Apple CCK and USB A - USB micro). Oh, and I always used to plug Mojo into my Neco Soundlab v5 amp, which brought, to my ears, significantly improved bass texture and a little extra headstage width. So another battery and cable not to mention quite a large stack overall.
I am looking forward to hearing DFC and the thought of no battery to manage, a single cable (Lavri Cables Lightning to USB A socket, with CCK chipset built-in) and no stacking makes me happy. Mojo is technically awesome but overkill, power-wise, IMO for IEM use which is my primary use case. I'm looking for something with a little more vibe and swing now, even at the expense of that last 5% of detail.


----------



## technobear

jnorris said:


> Don't hold your breath waiting for the price to drop.  Audioquest doesn't do that.


In the meantime, there is the Hifimediy S2 for $89:

https://hifime.uk/S2-DAC

No automotive paint job but still an ES9038Q2M and with an added optical input too and you can buy 3 for the price of a Cobalt. I wonder how they compare.


----------



## jnorris

joshnor713 said:


> Not from Audioquest, from merchants. Sales happen.



I've not seen that happen either, but hope springs eternal...


----------



## Haden2866

megabigeye said:


> My best advice in learning what to look for is to listen, just relax and listen _to the music_.  I think the best advice I've seen is to not listen to how it sounds, but to pay attention to how it makes you feel.


+1


----------



## nick97

I'm loving my new Cobalt a ton but one weird thing that it's been doing is it seems to sound much better coming out of my laptop than my ipad with better volume to boot. And listening to Spotify on the same settings it lights up blue from the laptop and green from the iPad, think there's any reason for this?


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 18, 2019)

Hi def on


Gus141 said:


> A couple of people responded in an Audiophile Style forum that they also see LED behavior that doesn’t match the manual. At least I know it’s not a problem with my DFC.



The LEDs seem to match well for me on TIDAL, but on Qobuz hi def shows green or sometimes white/very light blue (?).

The Qobuz LEDs really puzzle me.


----------



## jnorris

I hope this LED issue isn't indicative of a lack of quality control or even insufficient pre-production testing.  If the hardware is OK this may be fixed with a firmware update...assuming Audioquest is paying attention.


----------



## megabigeye

I really think somebody should email AudioQuest about it. The only way to know for certain is to ask.
I'd do it myself, but I haven't got the DFC yet.
Like I said, they may not even be aware of the problem yet.


----------



## Tenashus1

jnorris said:


> I hope this LED issue isn't indicative of a lack of quality control or even insufficient pre-production testing.  If the hardware is OK this may be fixed with a firmware update...assuming Audioquest is paying attention.


Shucks. I don't like to complain, but I had to return the first DFC because the connector wiggled and the unit rattled internally. Now I have the wiggle with a second one. What gives here? I really am not sure what to do at this point. I don't know if the wiggling is going to be fatal at some point.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 18, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> I really think somebody should email AudioQuest about it. The only way to know for certain is to ask.
> I'd do it myself, but I haven't got the DFC yet.
> Like I said, they may not even be aware of the problem yet.


I did email them. I also emailed them about the wiggle and rattle in my first unit. Now I get the wiggling on my newly received one. Potentially problematic? I don't know quite what to do at this point. The DFC sounds quite good. Somewhat smoother perhaps than the Red. ?


----------



## jnorris

I think it's definitely problematic.  Wiggles and other inappropriate motion can cause internal wear which could cause failure in the future.  This is a $300 unit, quality control should be much better.  Can you spell "R-U-S-H-E-D--T-O--M-A-R-K-E-T"?


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 18, 2019)

Should I go for try #3? Hum. Disappointing.


----------



## jnorris

I don't think you should have any doubts about your $300 purchase.  Return it and demand that someone test the replacement unit for fit, finish and LED colors.  If they can't do that demand your money back and buy something else.


----------



## Tenashus1

I would agree. Thanks for your input.


----------



## megabigeye (Jul 18, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> I did email them. I also emailed them about the wiggle and rattle in my first unit. Now I get the wiggling on my newly received one. Potentially problematic? I don't know quite what to do at this point. The DFC sounds quite good. Somewhat smoother perhaps than the Red. ?


What was their response?
I think if I were in your shoes I'd contact them again to tell them you have the same problem on the second unit. Then, depending on their response, I'd be inclined to return it for a refund and wait till there's a second manufacturing run and the kinks have hopefully been worked out.

Also, as somebody that worked for a decade in customer service, please don't _demand_ anything. Demanding rarely gets you anything more than you would get by asking politely, it just makes the service person's job more unpleasant.  And if there's a manufacturing problem, they're already way, way more stressed and upset about it than you are.


----------



## jnorris

True...don't demand, but don't let yourself get walked on.  This level of quality control is unacceptable so you're standing on solid ground.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 18, 2019)

I am going to take one more shot at it by asking Amazon for a replacement.


----------



## Leo

My replacement unit of DFC that I ordered from Music Direct (2nd Unit) arrived tomorrow - so long as FedEx doesn’t delay delivery (happened on the first shipment). If the unit still has the defect I’ll notify Audioquest who may tell me to just return it to the merchant like last time. If that’s the case I’m done and will stick with my DFR until I hear better news that the manufacturing problems are resolved. Trying to remain positive but it’s waning.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

That’s unfortunate for all of you that got defective units. My Cobalt was perfect out of the box. LED lights work correctly and nothing wiggles.


----------



## Gus141

I did email AQ about the LED colors and this was their excellent reply:
“We are working on updating the Cobalt manual for 96kHz.  It is not magenta but more of a light blue.  This helps make more of a distinction between the MQA Magenta(MQA Purple) and the previous magenta 96kHz on DragonFly Red and Black.  Which looked to close to each other when playing Tidal Masters/MQA.  We most likely will have the downloadable manual of our site updated first with color descriptions and then the printed manuals for future production of Cobalts.  We apologize about that.  There are no firmware updates at this time nor changes.  No defective LED’s.  It is the manual that needs to be corrected.”

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## Saberlarry

megabigeye said:


> Hey @supadupaninja and @Gus141,
> If the light is a concern you guys, you should drop AudioQuest an e-mail and see what they have to say about it.  I've found their customer support to be pretty responsive, even though it took something like 48 hours for them to reply.  The Cobalt is new enough that they may not even be aware of this problem, so you might want to point them to this thread and wherever else people have been talking about it.
> 
> @Saberlarry, whether or not you can tell a difference between a decent DAC and your iPhone depends on a few things:
> ...



Thanks man, I concur with all of your points. My iTunes purchases are mostly VBR-coded, so that means a song can either range from slightly under 256 kbps to a bit higher than 280. If I recall correctly, they are at least on par or superior to 320kbps mp3 due to being produced by Apple, especially with their Mastered for iTunes programme. Also heard that the difference between a well-coded 320kbps mp3/iTunes purchase and a lossless file is minimal and subtle as well. While using my current IEMs, I can sometimes hear additional instrumental sound in the background but they are quite feeble and would require hard concentration, quiet surroundings and slightly above-average volume. I hoped that the DFR could help me pinpoint those sound better but it was not that significant. I would say from my personal experience, the Apple's Lightning to 3.5mm is a 8.5 while the DFR is 9. Very close and almost no distinguishable differences and certainly not worth $200 upgrade. But well, given the current setup...
I did use Android phones for a while (S3 and S6, most recently S10+ but gave it away). The stock music app is indeed bad, at least when you compare it to the default Apple's music app. I had to install mods like Viper4Android and tweaked around a bit.
And yes, I love music. Given 30 minutes to try out a product at a store with people around me, it was definitely not comfortable. It's like I was creating pressure on my own and if I somehow didn't buy it (which I did), I would be judged by the vendors. Stupid and weird thought I know.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Saberlarry said:


> Thanks man, I concur with all of your points. My iTunes purchases are mostly VBR-coded, so that means a song can either range from slightly under 256 kbps to a bit higher than 280. If I recall correctly, they are at least on par or superior to 320kbps mp3 due to being produced by Apple, especially with their Mastered for iTunes programme. Also heard that the difference between a well-coded 320kbps mp3/iTunes purchase and a lossless file is minimal and subtle as well. While using my current IEMs, I can sometimes hear additional instrumental sound in the background but they are quite feeble and would require hard concentration, quiet surroundings and slightly above-average volume. I hoped that the DFR could help me pinpoint those sound better but it was not that significant. I would say from my personal experience, the Apple's Lightning to 3.5mm is a 8.5 while the DFR is 9. Very close and almost no distinguishable differences and certainly not worth $200 upgrade. But well, given the current setup...
> I did use Android phones for a while (S3 and S6, most recently S10+ but gave it away). The stock music app is indeed bad, at least when you compare it to the default Apple's music app. I had to install mods like Viper4Android and tweaked around a bit.
> And yes, I love music. Given 30 minutes to try out a product at a store with people around me, it was definitely not comfortable. It's like I was creating pressure on my own and if I somehow didn't buy it (which I did), I would be judged by the vendors. Stupid and weird thought I know.



Most iem’s have a very low impedance and are very easy to drive. So because of that, they don’t scale well. If you used a Dragonfly with a fulll-sized pair of headphones that require more power, you’d hear a much more significant difference. If you own any headphones that have at least 50 ohms of impedance and/or fall on the lower side of sensitivity (below 95 db’s), then do your A&B with them.


----------



## Saberlarry (Jul 18, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Most iem’s have a very low impedance and are very easy to drive. So because of that, they don’t scale well. If you used a Dragonfly with a fulll-sized pair of headphones that require more power, you’d hear a much more significant difference. If you own any headphones that have at least 50 ohms of impedance and/or fall on the lower side of sensitivity (below 95 db’s), then do your A&B with them.



I understand that as well, that's why I mentioned "technically", if anyone's interested in specifications of my IEMs, could you tell me if the DFC is going to complement them? Here's the link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/astell-kern-billie-jean.php
As English is not my native language and they use a lot of terms and jargon, I cannot fully understand everything.


----------



## Haden2866

Plenty of vs.............. Mojo comparison in Alan Sircom's new Cobalt review on HiFi+.

Here's the link: https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-dacheadphone-amp/


----------



## teknorob23

Haden2866 said:


> I had a Mojo for 18 months and, with an iPhone, it was a pain to manage a battery and two additional cables (Apple CCK and USB A - USB micro). Oh, and I always used to plug Mojo into my Neco Soundlab v5 amp, which brought, to my ears, significantly improved bass texture and a little extra headstage width. So another battery and cable not to mention quite a large stack overall.
> I am looking forward to hearing DFC and the thought of no battery to manage, a single cable (Lavri Cables Lightning to USB A socket, with CCK chipset built-in) and no stacking makes me happy. Mojo is technically awesome but overkill, power-wise, IMO for IEM use which is my primary use case. I'm looking for something with a little more vibe and swing now, even at the expense of that last 5% of detail.



slightly off topic but you've peaked my interest re the lavricables CCK substitute. Is this really a thing because i cant see it on their website. I have their lightening-usb micro cable to use with my iphone/hugo2 and its really good. I'm really hoping this is a thing and i've not just missunderstood your post!


----------



## Haden2866

teknorob23 said:


> slightly off topic but you've peaked my interest re the lavricables CCK substitute. Is this really a thing because i cant see it on their website. I have their lightening-usb micro cable to use with my iphone/hugo2 and its really good. I'm really hoping this is a thing and i've not just missunderstood your post!


I don't know, let's ask it.
ARE YOU A THING?
No answer.
Konstantin is pretty flexible - I asked him to make one and it arrived from Latvia two days later.


----------



## teknorob23

Haden2866 said:


> I don't know, let's ask it.
> ARE YOU A THING?
> No answer.
> Konstantin is pretty flexible - I asked him to make one and it arrived from Latvia two days later.



whether it can speak or not, you've made me a happy man, well nearly, dare ask how much it cost?


----------



## Haden2866

teknorob23 said:


> whether it can speak or not, you've made me a happy man, well nearly, dare ask how much it cost?


You may dare ask. However I won't even admit to owning one, much less how much it cost. If you break it down per centimetre it will make you cry. The Lavri Cables website will give you a ballpark for similar Lightning cables.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Saberlarry said:


> I understand that as well, that's why I mentioned "technically", if anyone's interested in specifications of my IEMs, could you tell me if the DFC is going to complement them? Here's the link: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/astell-kern-billie-jean.php
> As English is not my native language and they use a lot of terms and jargon, I cannot fully understand everything.



It only has 18 ohms of impedance and a sensitivity over 100 db’s. So it doesn’t really need amplification which is why you don’t hear much improvement.


----------



## teknorob23

Haden2866 said:


> You may dare ask. However I won't even admit to owning one, much less how much it cost. If you break it down per centimetre it will make you cry. The Lavri Cables website will give you a ballpark for similar Lightning cables.



yes i think i spent about £100 for the lightening - mojo/hugo 10cm cable. Sad thing i probably will spend similar on this, just please dont tell my wife


----------



## Haden2866

teknorob23 said:


> yes i think i spent about £100 for the lightening - mojo/hugo 10cm cable. Sad thing i probably will spend similar on this, just please dont tell my wife


She'll love it. Comes in a little jewellery bag and everything. So cute. So silvery. So soundy.


----------



## Leo

Well FedEx has struck again - shipping from Chicago to SoCal - they estimated arrival for Friday (shipped from MusicDirect on Monday) and once again they failed. Lodged a complaint that their estimates are off for shipping. Last time I order from MusicDirect as they only use FedEx and charge an obscene fee for better shipping via FedEx.


----------



## Haden2866

Leo said:


> Well FedEx has struck again - shipping from Chicago to SoCal - they estimated arrival for Friday (shipped from MusicDirect on Monday) and once again they failed. Lodged a complaint that their estimates are off for shipping. Last time I order from MusicDirect as they only use FedEx and charge an obscene fee for better shipping via FedEx.


Patience, Grasshopper. First thing you learn is that you've always gotta wait.


----------



## Leo

Haden2866 said:


> Patience, Grasshopper. First thing you learn is that you've always gotta wait.


Oh I have patience. But it’s been a trying week at work, so getting a faulty unit, having to ship it back, and then waiting. No fun, but oh well. And then no idea if the new unit will have the same issue. So patience is a little thin. 

But let’s keep it on topic. I’ll read others reviews of their units.


----------



## rezakhalvati

Tenashus1 said:


> Shucks. I don't like to complain, but I had to return the first DFC because the connector wiggled and the unit rattled internally. Now I have the wiggle with a second one. What gives here? I really am not sure what to do at this point. I don't know if the wiggling is going to be fatal at some point.


Mine is little loose also. I wonder if their initial batch was bad or if it’s ok for them to be like that... ??? It seems to sound ok, but the sound  cuts out with a couple of songs off Todal at louder volumes. Not sure if that’s because of Tidal or the DFC. ??


----------



## Tenashus1

rezakhalvati said:


> Mine is little loose also. I wonder if their initial batch was bad or if it’s ok for them to be like that... ??? It seems to sound ok, but the sound  cuts out with a couple of songs off Todal at louder volumes. Not sure if that’s because of Tidal or the DFC. ??



I was told through Amazon that an Audioquest rep said the wiggling was a defect. That's what I was told.  All I know is that my DFR and DFB are built rock solid with no movement of the usb connector.


----------



## rezakhalvati

Tenashus1 said:


> I was told through Amazon that an Audioquest rep said the wiggling was a defect. That's what I was told.  All I know is that my DFR and DFB are built rock solid with no movement of the usb connector.


Thank you for that information. I think I will be returning mine then.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (Jul 20, 2019)

I’m definitely having issues with my Cobalt or Tidal. I’ve selected MQA quality and my Cobalt light is green instead of purple. It’s only giving me CD quality. I don’t know if the problem is the Cobalt or Tidal. But I get better sound with the same track upsampled through my music player, KaiserTone.

In fact, it doesn’t matter what quality I choose, it’s always green.


----------



## Wheel Hoss

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’m definitely having issues with my Cobalt or Tidal. I’ve selected MQA quality and my Cobalt light is green instead of purple. It’s only giving me CD quality. I don’t know if the problem is the Cobalt or Tidal. But I get better sound with the same track upsampled through my music player, KaiserTone.
> 
> In fact, it doesn’t matter what quality I choose, it’s always green.



Do you have Bit Perfect on?

Also in Tidal you have to select Built-in (not system controlled) in streaming settings (or select the device—for me Mojo).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I own every model of DF so I will likely get the DFC and make a video on the entire line.


----------



## nick97

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...l-converter-the-cure-for-the-bluetooth-blues/

Some more impressions rolling in


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Wheel Hoss said:


> Do you have Bit Perfect on?
> 
> Also in Tidal you have to select Built-in (not system controlled) in streaming settings (or select the device—for me Mojo).



I was just using my iPhone, so those options aren’t applicable.


----------



## Haden2866

nick97 said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...l-converter-the-cure-for-the-bluetooth-blues/
> 
> Some more impressions rolling in


Keep 'em coming


----------



## rezakhalvati

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’m definitely having issues with my Cobalt or Tidal. I’ve selected MQA quality and my Cobalt light is green instead of purple. It’s only giving me CD quality. I don’t know if the problem is the Cobalt or Tidal. But I get better sound with the same track upsampled through my music player, KaiserTone.
> 
> In fact, it doesn’t matter what quality I choose, it’s always green.


UPDATE: I just called Crutchfield (where I bought my Cobalt from online) and told them about the wiggling issue. Not only are they emailing me a prepaid return label, “they” also “offered” to test the replacement unit before shipping it to me (to make sure there is no wiggle). I am SUPER IMPRESSED by their really amazing (and super nice and professional) service! Hopefully the new unit will be perfect.


----------



## jnorris

rezakhalvati said:


> UPDATE: I just called Crutchfield (where I bought my Cobalt from online) and told them about the wiggling issue. Not only are they emailing me a prepaid return label, “they” also “offered” to test the replacement unit before shipping it to me (to make sure there is no wiggle). I am SUPER IMPRESSED by their really amazing (and super nice and professional) service! Hopefully the new unit will be perfect.




That is nice of them!  I can't help but wonder if they're getting tired of fielding this complaint.  Audioquest screwed this one up badly - poor manufacturing, compatibility issues, and incorrect user manuals on a $300 product are totally inexcusable.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

rezakhalvati said:


> UPDATE: I just called Crutchfield (where I bought my Cobalt from online) and told them about the wiggling issue. Not only are they emailing me a prepaid return label, “they” also “offered” to test the replacement unit before shipping it to me (to make sure there is no wiggle). I am SUPER IMPRESSED by their really amazing (and super nice and professional) service! Hopefully the new unit will be perfect.



Crutchfield is great! I have always liked them.


----------



## Tenashus1

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Crutchfield is great! I have always liked them.


Waiting for my third, hopefully, wiggle free DFC. Problem is that it does sound sweet after all. Frustrating.


----------



## jnorris

I'd be interested in knowing someone's impressions of the DFC versus the Schiit Modi Multibit or the SMSL SU-8 (which uses the same DAC, but one per channel).  I was using the Red on my main home audio system for a while, then moved over to the Schiit and, finally, the SMSL


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Tenashus1 said:


> Waiting for my third, hopefully, wiggle free DFC. Problem is that it does sound sweet after all. Frustrating.



Yes it does. Hopefully third times a charm.


----------



## Tenashus1

I'm really beginning to appreciate the smoothness and relaxed quality of sound coming out of the DFC. The clarity of the sound and separation are really quite dramatic. Just give me one that's wiggle free, and I'll be very happy with it.


----------



## a-LeXx

Anyone here to comment on DFC hissing with low impedance IEMs? 

DFR hisses quite a bit with my SE846, while most of the smartphones or iDevices are dead silent.

Did they fix this with DFC?


----------



## edlecom

Victorfabius said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the Sabaj DA3 consumes 5 times the power of the DFB, and one of the benefits of the DFC is it's lower power consumption. Even if it works with iOS or Android, it might not be a good portable solution.
> I think the DA3 does work with some Android phones, and I haven't yet found information on it's compatibility with iOS, but a lot of my search results are in a foreign language right now.
> 
> I'm not saying that the DA3 isn't an excellent DAC (without regard to price), but it's got a different use case than the Dragonfly Black, Red, or Cobalt. The DA3 looks like a better laptop/PC companion than a smartphone DAC.
> ...



The Sabaj DS3 is a much better DAC than even the DF Cobalt, I've tried them all. It does consume more power, but I still get more than 10 hours on my Mate 10. It's larger, but not much.heavier, the sound alone is worth it. Try them all you'll see what I mean.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

edlecom said:


> The Sabaj DS3 is a much better DAC than even the DF Cobalt, I've tried them all. It does consume more power, but I still get more than 10 hours on my Mate 10. It's larger, but not much.heavier, the sound alone is worth it. Try them all you'll see what I mean.



There’s no such thing as a Sabaj DS3


----------



## edlecom

Hifiearspeakers said:


> There’s no such thing as a Sabaj DS3



LOL!  DA3. 
A next to S and small keyboard.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

edlecom said:


> LOL!  DA3.
> A next to S and small keyboard.


----------



## kdickin2

I’d be interested in reading comparisons to the Pro-Ject Pre Box Digital S2, which uses the same dac chip as the Cobalt and does MQA.  The pro-ject’s headphone output is supposed to be worthless, but I’ve read it compares favorably to the Red with speakers.  Wondering if the pendulum swings back in the Cobalt’s favor compared to the Pro-ject when used with speakers.


----------



## smok88

a-LeXx said:


> Anyone here to comment on DFC hissing with low impedance IEMs?
> 
> DFR hisses quite a bit with my SE846, while most of the smartphones or iDevices are dead silent.
> 
> Did they fix this with DFC?



Just got the DFC today and listening with the CA Andromeda IEM.  I had the DFR before and had to use IEMatch to eliminate the annoying hiss which the Andromeda picks up so easily.  Now with the DFC, the hiss is almost gone and no need to use the IEMatch.  Initial impression of the DFC vs DFR is that DFC is almost noise free compared to the DFR and DFC has better details and clarity, which gives it more sound stage (or head space?) with better imaging and layering.  

I really like the DFC, especially since there is no need to use the IEMatch to rid the hiss!  Can't wait til I have a proper listen after burn-in of the DFC.


----------



## Leo

Well got my second unit from MusicDirect and it has a wiggle/rattle too. So back it goes. I’ll wait until I can find a local dealer and buy one. For now I quit and will stick with my DFR. Sorely disappointed in QC issues.


----------



## jnorris

I can't believe your luck with this.  Perhaps waiting for the second or third production run might be a good idea.


----------



## joshnor713

Wow, I usually refrain myself from early-adopting for these reasons, but would've thought a USB stick would be an exception to that. Guess not.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 22, 2019)

Leo said:


> Well got my second unit from MusicDirect and it has a wiggle/rattle too. So back it goes. I’ll wait until I can find a local dealer and buy one. For now I quit and will stick with my DFR. Sorely disappointed in QC issues.


Sorry to hear. I'm receiving my third one tomorrow. I've decided I'll keep hitting em until I get a good one. Not only do I get to hear the DFC in the meantime, but I get to play this little QC game at the same time. What fun. I think there's actually a rhythm to it: receive one, send it back, receive another, send it back, receive another...It makes its' own music.


----------



## Condocondor (Jul 22, 2019)

So I'd like to make a few comments that compare and contrast the the Audioquest Cobalt to the _iFi Micro iDSD Black Label_.  Bare in mind that for this comparison I used the iSilencer, iGalvanic3.0, and iPurifier3 in the chain on* BOTH.*

1)  The Cobalt comes darn close using the Thinksound ON2 headphones to the BL.
2)  The Black Label is more musical sounding with better decay, soundstaging, and a little more authority/grunt in the low end.  But differences are perhaps between 5-10% at most.
3) The Cobalt has perhaps just a smidgeon tighter bass though not the authority, depth, and extension of the BL.
4)  The BL is perhaps smoother with vocals more recessed while the Cobalt has the vocals up front and center stage.
5)  What is shocking is how close it comes for it's small form factor.  I know the Cobalt is not fully broken in yet either.
6)  The Cobalt does improve with USB decrapifiers and better USB cables.  The iSilencer did make a noticable difference in the naturalness of the sound and is worth the extra $50.  I know Audioquest built in some of the Jitterbug tech into the Cobalt but my ears tell me there are still gains to be had for as little as $50 so Cobalt will scale a bit for those wanting to use it in desktop applications also.


----------



## PhenixS1970 (Jul 22, 2019)

I just got myself one of these and love it (EU buyer and no wiggle...must be lucky).  Plug and play is so convenient with ipod touch and Qobuz offline (special thanks to Tidal for not supporting ipod touch anymore).  I also have Mojo/Poly but my dog is impatient and wonders what the hassle with GoFigure is when she just wants to walk, lol.  Fair is fair the Chords are better but price/performance/convenience....Cobalt is better for me.

Ah and also a question...am I correct that AQ Desktop Device Manager does not yet support Cobalt ?  No go on a Win 8.1 laptop.

Edit...I just noticed a little wiggle on the headphone plug.  If someone can let me know if this is normal to ease my mind .


----------



## Tenashus1

I just got off the phone with Audioquest support. I was told that the wiggle was normal with the DFC. The fellow said that the only thing that would be defective was if there was something actually loose or moving inside the shell. So, this put my mind at ease. I was very happy to hear this because the thing actually sounds quite fantastic. So good news after all. The wiggle is NORMAL because of the new and different design from the DFR and DFB. You can even expect a little wiggle from what the fellow told me. Who knew?


----------



## Tenashus1

Leo said:


> Well got my second unit from MusicDirect and it has a wiggle/rattle too. So back it goes. I’ll wait until I can find a local dealer and buy one. For now I quit and will stick with my DFR. Sorely disappointed in QC issues.



Just talked to Audioquest support Leo. The wiggle is NORMAL with this new design according to them! I was indeed happy to hear since this thing sounds better every time I use it. Go for it Leo.


----------



## Leo

Thanks for the update. I’ll go ahead and cancel my return and keep it. Figure if anything happens warranty will have to kick in.


----------



## Tenashus1

Leo said:


> Thanks for the update. I’ll go ahead and cancel my return and keep it. Figure if anything happens warranty will have to kick in.


----------



## poorsod

Yeah my Cobalt has some jiggle too. I’ve been using it quite a bit this weekend with HE400i and have been liking it quite a lot. My impression is that it’s quite a bit better than my Dragonfly Red though I haven’t done a head to head comparison.


----------



## Gus141

PhenixS1970 said:


> Ah and also a question...am I correct that AQ Desktop Device Manager does not yet support Cobalt ?  No go on a Win 8.1 laptop.
> 
> Edit...I just noticed a little wiggle on the headphone plug.  If someone can let me know if this is normal to ease my mind .


Email from AQ confirmed the following: current Desktop Device Manager doesn’t yet work. They are working on a new version.

As for the wiggle, mine has it too and I’m keeping it because AQ is telling folks it’s OK. 

I’m actually pleasantly really surprised how good the Cobalt sounds out of an iPad Pro 1st Gen 12.9” and an iPhone SE with the USB3-Connection-Kit dongle. I never had a DragonFly before and have always used bulkier “portable” DACs with the iPad, but the Cobalt is really impressing me (and so much smaller than my other DACs). I bought an iFi xDSD the same week thinking the larger form factor (although still highly portable, and much smaller in person than it looks in online pictures) would drive my higher impedance cans better than the Cobalt. Nope. They both are performing great but I’m keeping both and I can’t decide which one sounds better to me anyway.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 22, 2019)

Gus141 said:


> Email from AQ confirmed the following: current Desktop Device Manager doesn’t yet work. They are working on a new version.
> 
> As for the wiggle, mine has it too and I’m keeping it because AQ is telling folks it’s OK.
> 
> I’m actually pleasantly really surprised how good the Cobalt sounds out of an iPad Pro 1st Gen 12.9” and an iPhone SE with the USB3-Connection-Kit dongle. I never had a DragonFly before and have always used bulkier “portable” DACs with the iPad, but the Cobalt is really impressing me (and so much smaller than my other DACs). I bought an iFi xDSD the same week thinking the larger form factor (although still highly portable, and much smaller in person than it looks in online pictures) would drive my higher impedance cans better than the Cobalt. Nope. They both are performing great but I’m keeping both and I can’t decide which one sounds better to me anyway.


They do both sound great and I too have both, but the Cobalt clearly has my attention at the moment. So easy to use with my laptop. I don't have to keep it charged.

The DFC just lights up my Campfire Comet. Gives em a whole new life.


----------



## Gus141

Tenashus1 said:


> They do both sound great and I too have both, but the Cobalt clearly has my attention at the moment. So easy to use with my laptop. I don't have to keep it charged.


Exactly the reasons I’m liking it more and more as my go-to portable solution. If the sound quality is as-good-as, if not better than, the bigger and battery-operated DACs, then I think the smallest device wins (all other things being equal). The bluetooth does come in handy on the xDSD when I’m listening to compressed music and don’t need the lossless, hi-res, or MQA support.


----------



## zeroselect

Tenashus1 said:


> Just talked to Audioquest support Leo. The wiggle is NORMAL with this new design according to them! I was indeed happy to hear since this thing sounds better every time I use it. Go for it Leo.


LOL Audioquest support is bullshitting you  then. My old ass DFR jiggles as well. It hasn't been a problem as far as function.


----------



## Tenashus1

Glad to hear your DFR functions with the jiggle. My DFR doesn't jiggle. Audioquest is in California. These days everything in California is jiggling. Maybe there's a connection with the DFC jiggles.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Gus141 said:


> Exactly the reasons I’m liking it more and more as my go-to portable solution. If the sound quality is as-good-as, if not better than, the bigger and battery-operated DACs, then I think the smallest device wins (all other things being equal). The bluetooth does come in handy on the xDSD when I’m listening to compressed music and don’t need the lossless, hi-res, or MQA support.


I currently have a recently purchased mojo (my favorite), and an xDSD that I've had for a year, but felt the need to buy the mojo cuz I like it quite a bit more. Had a DFR and it eventually broke. Stopped using dfr for xDSD. Curious about Cobalt. Don't see myself dropping another $300 right now, but very curious about comparisons


----------



## Tenashus1

I'm always hearing this about the Mojo being the best and it drives me loco. I think I've reached my limit on buying stuff. I'll just have to wonder about it for a few years, and enjoy my Cobalt in the meantime.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Tenashus1 said:


> I'm always hearing this about the Mojo being the best and it drives me loco. I think I've reached my limit on buying stuff. I'll just have to wonder about it for a few years, and enjoy my Cobalt in the meantime.


Other things are definitely really good. I started with the DFR. A yr later, Then I got the ifi XDSD. Enjoyed both. Mojo was sitting there the whole time, at a higher price point, which is why I pulled the trigger on the other two. Problem is, every time I would get a listen with the mojo, I would hear that little bit better that I enjoyed, and it always stuck with me, lol. I finally decided to get one so I could stop buying stuff trying to get the sound I wanted at a lesser price point. Cobalt seems awesome, but I don't want to drop another $300 on a portable DAC, when I have 2 portable DACs ready to go. Also, with mobile phones, the lack of a large number of volume steps is helping me stay away. xDSD and mojo, being battery powered have a large number of volume steps to work with. But, the Cobalt does look interesting and I would like to hear it.


----------



## Gus141

Devodonaldson said:


> ...Also, with mobile phones, the lack of a large number of volume steps is helping me stay away. xDSD and mojo, being battery powered have a large number of volume steps to work with. But, the Cobalt does look interesting and I would like to hear it.



I don’t know about Android phones, but as far as volume control, with iPhones and iPads you can get very good control over a wide range of volume control: pull down to bring up the control center; press and hold on the volume indicator; it will zoom in and then you can slide up or down for much finer control of volume. Also, the TIDAL and Qobus apps have their own volume slider (press the output/speaker selection icon in the bottom left of their playing-now screens).


----------



## Devodonaldson

Gus141 said:


> I don’t know about Android phones, but as far as volume control, with iPhones and iPads you can get very good control over a wide range of volume control: pull down to bring up the control center; press and hold on the volume indicator; it will zoom in and then you can slide up or down for much finer control of volume. Also, the TIDAL and Qobus apps have their own volume slider (press the output/speaker selection icon in the bottom left of their playing-now screens).


Yeah. I was just thinking about the 15 step volume control, but you are correct about the ability to slide the volume control. I use both iOS and Android. You can slide on both.


----------



## Gus141

Devodonaldson said:


> ...Cobalt seems awesome, but I don't want to drop another $300 on a portable DAC, when I have 2 portable DACs ready to go.


I feel your pain. I’m not proud of this fact, but I’ve bought 5 portable DAC/Headphone amps in the last year looking for the one that satisfies all my *portable* needs (Note: for home use I’ve found my end game with the AKM-based RME ADI-2 DAC for headphones [love the parametric EQ capabilities for one of my headphones] and the ESS-based Oppo UDP-205 for my multi-channel and stereo speaker setups).

My portable DAC purchases in order were:
1. Topping NX4 DSD: ESS-based; the measurements and reviews were excellent; great bang for the buck.
2. Monoprice Portable THX AAA Portable: AKM-based; liked the LCD (OLED?) screen showing me sample rate and volume in digits; long battery life.
3. Chord Mojo: like you, after trying it, I just needed to own it...and ended up really liking it; drives my most demanding headphones better than the others, but for mobile use, that’s not really an issue since I use pretty efficient headphones for mobile use, and at home I use the RME ADI-2 DAC for headphones.
4. iFi xDSD: Burr-Brown-based; I wanted an MQA-capable portable DAC (the Oppo 205 is MQA capable for home use); I’m not an MQA fan, and I don’t want to be stuck in that wheelhouse, but as with all things with this hobby, I’m too curious not to listen
5. DragonFly Cobalt: ESS-based; stumbled upon this while shopping for the iFi xDSD and couldn’t believe it was being released the week I was looking; I hadn’t even heard that AudioQuest was coming out with a new DAC; I had always been interested in the small form-factor of the DragonFly DACs so I ordered it.

I don’t really want to rank these, because it all depends on the headphones or IEMs in use, not to mention the music, and it’s apples-to-oranges in some cases (i.e., if you need MQA rendering...). But I will say I love them all, so no loss. As for the Cobalt, I’m really glad I bought it. I never thought these thumbdrive-sized DACs could sound so good with efficient headphones.

Sorry for the long post.
Cheers,
Gus


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Gus141 said:


> I feel your pain. I’m not proud of this fact, but I’ve bought 5 portable DAC/Headphone amps in the last year looking for the one that satisfies all my *portable* needs (Note: for home use I’ve found my end game with the AKM-based RME ADI-2 DAC for headphones [love the parametric EQ capabilities for one of my headphones] and the ESS-based Oppo UDP-205 for my multi-channel and stereo speaker setups).
> 
> My portable DAC purchases in order were:
> 1. Topping NX4 DSD: ESS-based; the measurements and reviews were excellent; great bang for the buck.
> ...



Hey Don't stop! Next up iBasso DC01! its only $50!


----------



## PhenixS1970

Just to know, if we're talking about the wiggle...is it the USB A plug or the headphone connector?  On mine the plug appears solid but occasionally the headphone connector gives a little 'snap' (there is some margin between the connector and the metal housing).


----------



## PhenixS1970

Gus141 said:


> Email from AQ confirmed the following: current Desktop Device Manager doesn’t yet work. They are working on a new version.
> 
> As for the wiggle, mine has it too and I’m keeping it because AQ is telling folks it’s OK.
> 
> I’m actually pleasantly really surprised how good the Cobalt sounds out of an iPad Pro 1st Gen 12.9” and an iPhone SE with the USB3-Connection-Kit dongle. I never had a DragonFly before and have always used bulkier “portable” DACs with the iPad, but the Cobalt is really impressing me (and so much smaller than my other DACs). I bought an iFi xDSD the same week thinking the larger form factor (although still highly portable, and much smaller in person than it looks in online pictures) would drive my higher impedance cans better than the Cobalt. Nope. They both are performing great but I’m keeping both and I can’t decide which one sounds better to me anyway.



Thank you very much for your feedback, Gus141


----------



## joesuburb

So I'm a total cynic when it comes to DAC/Amps.  I don't have enough experience to prove it to myself, so I'd like some validation.  If you have an efficient headphone, can you really hear a damn difference between the DFR and DFC?  I want to believe no.  I also don't want to spend $300.  But I do have nice high end headphones and if its an actual improvement in detail, separation, and quality I'd bit the bullet.  

If its just that one is a little warmer than the other, I'll pass.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

joesuburb said:


> So I'm a total cynic when it comes to DAC/Amps.  I don't have enough experience to prove it to myself, so I'd like some validation.  If you have an efficient headphone, can you really hear a damn difference between the DFR and DFC?  I want to believe no.  I also don't want to spend $300.  But I do have nice high end headphones and if its an actual improvement in detail, separation, and quality I'd bit the bullet.
> 
> If its just that one is a little warmer than the other, I'll pass.



It depends on the impedance and sensitivity of your headphone. If you have a very efficient headphone that doesn’t really need amplification, then you won’t hear that much difference amongst any of the dragonfly’s or compared to no dragonfly. But headphones that actually require amplification to sound correct will sound noticeably better with a dragonfly.


----------



## rezakhalvati

Gus141 said:


> I don’t know about Android phones, but as far as volume control, with iPhones and iPads you can get very good control over a wide range of volume control: pull down to bring up the control center; press and hold on the volume indicator; it will zoom in and then you can slide up or down for much finer control of volume. Also, the TIDAL and Qobus apps have their own volume slider (press the output/speaker selection icon in the bottom left of their playing-now screens).


Thank you for the tip on iPhone’s volume micro control! Very cool. Had no idea that it had that feature!


----------



## rezakhalvati (Jul 23, 2019)

PhenixS1970 said:


> Just to know, if we're talking about the wiggle...is it the USB A plug or the headphone connector?  On mine the plug appears solid but occasionally the headphone connector gives a little 'snap' (there is some margin between the connector and the metal housing).


The usb plug.


rezakhalvati said:


> Mine is little loose also. I wonder if their initial batch was bad or if it’s ok for them to be like that... ??? It seems to sound ok, but the sound  cuts out with a couple of songs off Todal at louder volumes. Not sure if that’s because of Tidal or the DFC. ??



Has anyone else experienced sound cutting off at higher volumes with the Cobalt? I thought maybe it was caused by Tidal, but it happens with any source. I am using it with my iPhone 7. Also, it happens with both the Sennheiser IE800 and IE800S. Ps: my DFC has the wiggle too. Not sure if sound cutting off is due to that or something else.


----------



## cpaulik

joesuburb said:


> So I'm a total cynic when it comes to DAC/Amps.  I don't have enough experience to prove it to myself, so I'd like some validation.  If you have an efficient headphone, can you really hear a damn difference between the DFR and DFC?  I want to believe no.  I also don't want to spend $300.  But I do have nice high end headphones and if its an actual improvement in detail, separation, and quality I'd bit the bullet.
> 
> If its just that one is a little warmer than the other, I'll pass.



I've not yet have the chance to compare DFR and DFC directly. But the improvement of the DFR against my normal laptop or android phone headphone jack is very obvious. So if you are not using a dedicated DAC/AMP then I think both the DFR and the DFC will be a very noticeable step up.


----------



## PhenixS1970

rezakhalvati said:


> The usb plug.



Thank you very much, rezakhalvati


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 23, 2019)

PhenixS1970 said:


> Just to know, if we're talking about the wiggle...is it the USB A plug or the headphone connector?  On mine the plug appears solid but occasionally the headphone connector gives a little 'snap' (there is some margin between the connector and the metal housing).


It's the USB plug which you probably already know by now. Never mind.


----------



## Signal2Noise

I came on here to check for posts about the USB "wiggle" and lo and behold here they are!

I just noticed the wiggle int USB plug AND a bit in the headphone out jack as well today after several days of useage. I checked the DFB and DFR for comparison and they are as solid as can be.

Also, every so often I get something I would describe as "audio corruption" where a track is playing and all of a sudden for maybe 10 or 20 seconds there's a warping and high-pitched sound garbling the audio. If I hit pause and rewind to where the glitch happens it goes away and the audio is fine. In one hour or 90 minutes of playback this oddity happens two or three times. Is it related to the wiggles (not the children group) or is it a firmware issue?


----------



## rezakhalvati

Signal2Noise said:


> I came on here to check for posts about the USB "wiggle" and lo and behold here they are!
> 
> I just noticed the wiggle int USB plug AND a bit in the headphone out jack as well today after several days of useage. I checked the DFB and DFR for comparison and they are as solid as can be.
> 
> Also, every so often I get something I would describe as "audio corruption" where a track is playing and all of a sudden for maybe 10 or 20 seconds there's a warping and high-pitched sound garbling the audio. If I hit pause and rewind to where the glitch happens it goes away and the audio is fine. In one hour or 90 minutes of playback this oddity happens two or three times. Is it related to the wiggles (not the children group) or is it a firmware issue?


AudioQuest is really great at taking in all feedbacks and looking into them. I highly recommend you email them your post and see what they say. And please share back your findings with us. You can email them at:
info@audioquest.com


----------



## Signal2Noise

rezakhalvati said:


> AudioQuest is really great at taking in all feedbacks and looking into them. I highly recommend you email them your post and see what they say. And please share back your findings with us. You can email them at:
> info@audioquest.com


Yes, I will be reporting this to AQ. Thanks for the thought.


----------



## kenepst

I've had the chance to sit with the Dragonfly Red and Cobalt side by side for a bit of critical listening. I have to say, I think the improvement is substantial. The Dragonfly Cobalt is clearer sounding and more detailed, with a neutral tuning. The Dragonfly Red is "warm and fuzzy" in comparison.

The Dragonfly Cobalt is everything good about the Dragonfly Red, but improved by a substantial margin. More refined across the board.


----------



## joesuburb

kenepst said:


> I've had the chance to sit with the Dragonfly Red and Cobalt side by side for a bit of critical listening. I have to say, I think the improvement is substantial. The Dragonfly Cobalt is clearer sounding and more detailed, with a neutral tuning. The Dragonfly Red is "warm and fuzzy" in comparison.
> 
> The Dragonfly Cobalt is everything good about the Dragonfly Red, but improved by a substantial margin. More refined across the board.


Damn it, I hope you are right because you just made me buy a Cobalt to replace my Red with.


----------



## nick97

kenepst said:


> I've had the chance to sit with the Dragonfly Red and Cobalt side by side for a bit of critical listening. I have to say, I think the improvement is substantial. The Dragonfly Cobalt is clearer sounding and more detailed, with a neutral tuning. The Dragonfly Red is "warm and fuzzy" in comparison.
> 
> The Dragonfly Cobalt is everything good about the Dragonfly Red, but improved by a substantial margin. More refined across the board.


Right on the nose, couldn't agree more, I'm loving mine!


----------



## musicisthekey

Just got my DFC and it is rather a big improvement in sound quality over DFR which I owned 3 times and sold it because I found its tuning somewhat unnatural as if something was missing. I just couldn't get used to it. DFC sounds way more natural and musical. I think it's a keeper unless the new toy syndrome wears off in a week or two.


----------



## Signal2Noise

All of you new DFC owners....is your USB plug and/or HO jack wiggly?

I had to do some testing with the audio glitches I experience with the DFC before sending an email off to AQ support. I can safely say it is the DFC since I can listen to the same audio file without DFC and everything is fine. Hopefully this is an isolated incident. We shall see.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 25, 2019)

My USB connnector wiggles slightly. All three I tried did, but I haven't experienced any audio issues to this point.


----------



## Condocondor

Signal2Noise said:


> All of you new DFC owners....is your USB plug and/or HO jack wiggly?



*NO*


----------



## joshuachew

Just received this little beast today. Totally blown away by its sound, and then you realise how small it is. Truly amazed.


----------



## megabigeye

I'm wondering if anybody has tested the DFC vs the DFR in terms of battery usage? If you want to do a not-quite-scientific test, you could use each for a couple of hours in airplane mode and record how much each uses.


----------



## Signal2Noise (Jul 26, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> I'm wondering if anybody has tested the DFC vs the DFR in terms of battery usage? If you want to do a not-quite-scientific test, you could use each for a couple of hours in airplane mode and record how much each uses.



I have. Cobalt is definitely an improvement over Red in regardes to battery. Also Cobalt stays completely cool to the touch with prolonged use.

I could track,hours/percentages when I have time.

I have other issues with Cobalt tho that need to be resolved.


----------



## rezakhalvati

Signal2Noise said:


> I have. Cobalt is definitely an improvement over Red in regardes to battery. Also Cobalt stays completely cool to the touch with prolonged use.
> 
> I could track,hours/percentages when I have time.
> 
> I have other issues with Cobalt tho that need to be resolved.


What other issues are you having? Have you (or anyone else) had the sound cut off (play changes to stop) at loudest volumes? This happened with my IE800 and IE800S.


----------



## Bitsir

Wow. I am comparing the Red and the Cobalt as I am typing this.

The most profound difference is the very significant improvement to image stability, specificity and overall sense of presence. 

It is like going from 60hz to a 90hz monitor with the Cobalt, the instruments "update" more frequently which makes it easier to follow what is happening.

I am using 3D songs on Youtube such as this one  to make it easier when comparing.

The Red goes over the edge in the treble and it starts to offend in the most intense parts of the song, meanwhile the Cobalt walks the line just right. 

There is more air with the Cobalt too, but it is not apparent right away I would say.

Bass feels more positional. 

Whenever I put the Red on I just want to hurry back to the Cobalt.


----------



## rezakhalvati

Bitsir said:


> Wow. I am comparing the Red and the Cobalt as I am typing this.
> 
> The most profound difference is the very significant improvement to image stability, specificity and overall sense of presence.
> 
> ...



Fantastic review! Meticulously written and very melodic. I would love to know your opinion on how the Cobalt compares to the Mojo (sound-wise only since there is no comparison as far as their form factor). 

I would also love to know if you have any experience with the IE800 IEMs, and if so, what portable dac/amp you think is the best match for them. Thank you!


----------



## Bitsir

rezakhalvati said:


> Fantastic review! Meticulously written and very melodic. I would love to know your opinion on how the Cobalt compares to the Mojo (sound-wise only since there is no comparison as far as their form factor).
> 
> I would also love to know if you have any experience with the IE800 IEMs, and if so, what portable dac/amp you think is the best match for them. Thank you!



Thank you!

So, I actually do own the Mojo, but I do not have any experience with the IE800's unfortunately so I can't help you there.

I am currently using the 1More Quad Driver which retailed for $199 back in 2017 ($149 today). It has fallen down in the performance rankings in recent years but I still think it has above average technicalities for the price, especially stage and separation.

So, I have never been a huge fan of the Mojo due to a few things; I am a stage and separation addict. Meaning, I like a vast and clearly contrasted experience where I can hear instruments in their own space on a larger canvas. 

I think the Mojo is very mature sounding and very detailed but the way it achieves this is by sacrificing stage size and a sense of space. Everything is a bit closer to you as a listener almost to the point of claustrophoby.

There is also a lesser degree of 3D with the Mojo, it is more towards 2D in sound (less depth to the sound essentially). The upside is as mentioned before, greater detail retrieval of the "surface" of every instrument (more texture) but loose dimensionality in doing so (shape and form).

For these reasons, I even like the Red above Mojo but I am perhaps in the minority there. Cobalt, however, should be more of a tossup for most people. I have not used my Mojo for close to a year, at home or on the go.

Currently waiting on an adapter cable so that I can use my Oriolus Reborn ($900 Hybrid IEM with $200 copper cable) with the Cobalt, I have very high hopes for the combo. Also have a Jitterbug on the way.


----------



## walakalulu

Apparently the Cobalt works synergistically with this:

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/exclusive-stack-audio-link-usb-streaming-bridge/


----------



## rezakhalvati

Bitsir said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So, I actually do own the Mojo, but I do not have any experience with the IE800's unfortunately so I can't help you there.
> 
> ...


Beautiful! Thank you. I too, definitely like a vast, open soundstage. I loved the DFR with my IE800 IEMs. But the issue with the Cobalt was the sound would cut off at very high volume levels (which never happened with the Red). Gordon Rankin at Audioquest has been amazingly wonderful in running various tests to see why this would happen, but could not come to a conclusion. I wonder if perhaps my unit (one of the very first units) was defective. It did have the wiggle issue in both the USB plug and jack port. I had to send it back, but I really wish I could make it work perfectly. ??


----------



## Bitsir

rezakhalvati said:


> Beautiful! Thank you. I too, definitely like a vast, open soundstage. I loved the DFR with my IE800 IEMs. But the issue with the Cobalt was the sound would cut off at very high volume levels (which never happened with the Red). Gordon Rankin at Audioquest has been amazingly wonderful in running various tests to see why this would happen, but could not come to a conclusion. I wonder if perhaps my unit (one of the very first units) was defective. It did have the wiggle issue in both the USB plug and jack port. I had to send it back, but I really wish I could make it work perfectly. ??



I see, well my Cobalt also has a wiggle although it is tiiiiny, most likely not an issue. My Red has no wiggle whatsoever. I have not experienced any problems with my Cobalt yet but its my second day with it, so stay tuned I guess?


----------



## Verbena (Jul 26, 2019)

After some time with Audioquest Cobalt I would say it's pretty good, only thing it sounds a bit veiled/muted , "metallic" and bright. Aka it should have sounded more open, defined and organic with less distortion. But then if it had it would have competed to dacamps with a much higher pricetag..

Also running from a sony smartphone gives digital ticks regularly, unknown why. My other portable dacamp didnt. But neither usb or line out are loose on mine.


----------



## tracyca (Jul 26, 2019)

The Cobalt is tiny, BUT packs a punch! First time I held a dragonfly in hand.


----------



## headfry (Jul 26, 2019)

Bitsir said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So, I actually do own the Mojo, but I do not have any experience with the IE800's unfortunately so I can't help you there.
> 
> ...




Out of curiosity, what cable is used to connect to your source with Mojo?  I had similar results with smallish soundstage, etc.
until I switched from using the supplied cable to an audiophile-grade - now.Mojo sounds world-class!


----------



## Bitsir

headfry said:


> Out of curiosity, what cable is used to connect to your source with Mojo?  I had similar results with smallish soundstage, etc.
> until I switched from using the supplied cable to an audiophile-grade - now.Mojo sounds world-class!



Audioquest Forest ($40 cable)

Last I heard, USB is the worst way of transmitting the 1's and 0's.  (From a computer). 

What cable are you using?


----------



## headfry

Bitsir said:


> Audioquest Forest ($40 cable)
> 
> Last I heard, USB is the worst way of transmitting the 1's and 0's.  (From a computer).
> 
> What cable are you using?




Curious Link I’m sure the Forest is a nice
step up from the supplied charging cable
- which I ve been using for a couple years.

Found & bought  the Curious used.  a few months ago - using it with my AQ Jitterbug -
no longer interested in changing the Mojo.


----------



## Ariaudio

Just got mine. Love the open and detailed sound, mind you I'm coming from an Audioengine D3. 

I am somewhat dismayed at the wiggle, but will keep it at least long enough to burn it in more before ultimately deciding if I will keep. And if so, should I exchange it for another in hopes of a non wiggler?


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 27, 2019)

Wiggle-less DFCs are likely rare birds (or flies in this case). I went through 3 and they all did a little jig. The first one rattled too (that was not good). Perhaps it is a symbol of their real musicality. I kept my second one because I started to burn it in.  I have to say that the DFC does wonders with my Sennheiser 6XX, and Campfire Comet. It makes them sound fantastic. My iFi Nano BL and xDSD don't quite do that. Do get me wrong. I love the latter two, but there's something very special about the DFC. $300 well spent for me. Economically speaking, I have already derived great musical pleasure and value from it. Yay!


----------



## Deftone

What's this wiggle? I'm thinking about getting one because of how portable it is.


----------



## Tenashus1

The USB connector has some slight movement to it in many cases. Doesn't appear to effect the sound quality though which (as I've posted already) is dramatically wonderful.


----------



## tracyca (Jul 28, 2019)

I purchased my Cobalt from Amazon and happy to report that it is a tiny powerful sounding solution for plug and play on the go. I thought one of my all time favorites Pico Slim was small. Colbalt is great. My unit has no loose parts.


----------



## tracyca

I did notice that my unit fits loosely in the Apple cck adapter, it cuts off if it moves. If I use the dragon tail no issues with my s10+ or my iPad 11inch.


----------



## tracyca

I like the ie800s with the DFC but not with the ie800 not enough bass power.


----------



## tracyca

S10 plus + Cobalt + Solaris = powerful bass & intense top end!


----------



## Deftone

tracyca said:


> I like the ie800s with the DFC but not with the ie800 not enough bass power.



IE800S has less sub bass than the original though?


----------



## tracyca

To me the bass is more fuller in the ie800s and the ie800 has more sparkle up top, but the ie800s is no slouch to detail. If you give the ie800 some power from a good amp it is the perfect blend of lows, mid, high.


----------



## Deftone

tracyca said:


> To me the bass is more fuller in the ie800s and the ie800 has more sparkle up top, but the ie800s is no slouch to detail. If you give the ie800 some power from a good amp it is the perfect blend of lows, mid, high.



It's more it's more balanced with fuller mid bass (800S) compared to more sub bass (800). Original is more vshaped and you get that always on sub woofer effect.


----------



## happyforestgump

Tenashus1 said:


> Wiggle-less DFCs are likely rare birds (or flies in this case). I went through 3 and they all did a little jig. The first one rattled too (that was not good). Perhaps it is a symbol of their real musicality. I kept my second one because I started to burn it in.  I have to say that the DFC does wonders with my Sennheiser 6XX, and Campfire Comet. It makes them sound fantastic. My iFi Nano BL and xDSD don't quite do that. Do get me wrong. I love the latter two, but there's something very special about the DFC. $300 well spent for me. Economically speaking, I have already derived great musical pleasure and value from it. Yay!


Wow it sounds better with 6xx than your xdsd? I just sent my xdsd in because of battery issues and I’m pretty much sold on the cobalt. Can you share your opinion on the differences between the two devices?


----------



## tracyca

I feel more sub bass on my ie800s then my set of ie800 og.


----------



## comzee (Jul 29, 2019)

I picked up the DFC today. https://i.imgur.com/hA4q5eb.jpg
I've owned all the DF, I had the first one which was also black, they called it DF v1.2 (I don't have it anymore)
The three picture are their Cobalt / Red / Black respectively.

I've been comparing it as a DAC only in my initial a/b tests.

My setup is: *PC Dac-up USB -> Schiit Wyrd -> Dragonfly b/r/c -> Eddie Current Aficionado -> HD800sdr*
For another reference point I a/b the Red / Cobalt to these configurations too:
*#1: PC Dac-up USB -> Modi Multibit -> Eddie Current Aficionado -> HD800sdr
#2: PC Lynx AES16e -> Digital RCA cable -> Modi Multibit -> HD800sdr*

The DFC is a huge step up from the DFB and DFR as a dac. Immediately noticeable, clearer, more soundstage, better imaging, a bit better resolution, more organic tonality (by comparison).

DFC compared to Modi Multbit (chain #1) is surprisingly very close. Mimby still edges is it out overall. Mimby was a noticeable and clear upgrade from DFR, but DFC is really closes the gap, to the point where personal preferences could make one go either way in liking one better over the other.
Mimby (chain #1) is more organic than DFC tho, less treble energy. The DFC still maintains the ESS house sound, just a hair of sibilance.

Now, Mimby being a desktop DAC, can take RCA digital spdif input. This is what makes it a better proposition if you want something for desktop use only, to build a full audio chain (source/dac/amp).
I know it's a bit overkill, but the Lynx AES16e ($600) feeding the Mimby takes it to another level the DFC could only ever hope to reach. Mimby (chain #2) is far and beyond ahead of the DFC in performance, basically take every metric and it's better.

Overall I'm extremely impressed by the DFC. When I went from DF v1.2 -> DFB -> DFR, there was always subtle improvements, nothing major. With the DFC I feel like it's a significant upgrade over the DFR (and ergo all the previous models).


Notes:
Modi Multibit is using the new v2 firmware
"Dac-up" USB is a feature on my motherboard, where it has a few USB ports that have filtered power

EDIT:

Additional testing:

I happen to own a Shanling M0. It's a bluetooth DAP/DAC/Transport.
I plugged my DFC into it, worked a charm.

So essentially the chain would be iPhone -> Bluetooth -> M0 -> DFC -> HD800sdr
Seriously impressive for a portable setup.

I'd say DFC > M0 (using integrated 3.5mm output) > DFR
DFR has a really congested sound to it, compared to the other two. M0 sounds closer to DFC, with DFC having overall better technicalities than M0.

Essentially M0 + DFC is $400 ultra portable Bluetooth DAC setup.
https://i.imgur.com/lAATIJf.jpg

With that additional testing, I also tested DFC -> HD800sdr directly.
Purely on a synergy perspective, DFC is supremely better than DFR for HD800sdr.
DFR makes hd800sdr extremely sibilant and hashy. DFC greatly subdues that, much better by comparison.

EDIT2:

I did all my testing with one of my hd800 because it was just laying in front of me.
I wanted to note that DFC direct to hd800 isn't going to drive good dynamics. It will get you to good listening SPL tho. DFC wheelhouse is really for IEMs or headphones that don't need a lot of power. I took my IE800 out of storage and tried it with DFC, really nice pairing. DFC powers IE800 much better than hd800 (obviously lol).
I just wanted to put this in my review, in case anybody was thinking DFC was a great device to get specifically for hd800, it works, and sounds good, but a $200 modi3/magi3 Schiit combo will be much better for hd800 than the $300 DFC. Magni3 can just put out more power than a device like the DFC. Considering someone plans to use the DFC as a dac/amp to drive headphones directly, v.s. just a DAC.


----------



## Condocondor (Jul 29, 2019)

comzee said:


> My setup is: *PC Dac-up USB -> Schiit Wyrd -> Dragonfly b/r/c -> Eddie Current Aficionado -> HD800sdr*



I use the iFi Audio's iPurifier3 and iSilencer (jitterbug) and notice a very nice difference.  I'm assuming your Schitt Wyrd does something similar?

1) Laptop ---> iSilencer ---> Generic 2' USB3.0 Cable ---> iPurifier3 ---> DFC
2) Laptop ---> Generic 2' USB3.0 Cable ---> iGalvanic3.0 ---> iSilencer ---> Generic 1' USB3.0 Cable ---> iPurifier3 ---> DFC
3) Laptop ---> Generic 2' USB3.0 Cable ---> iGalvanic3.0 ---> Generic 1' USB3.0 Cable ---> iSilencer ---> iPurifier3 ---> DFC

All three configurations improve dynamics, sound staging, clarity, smoothness, spatial cues, in successive order of improvement.  Obviously, this is ridiculous to try and turn a portable DFC into a desktop setup but it works!  DFC scales beautifully as you add USB decrapification and galvanic isolation.  Without these devices helping, DFC by itself still sounds good, but relatively speaking it sounds confused during complicataed musical passages.  I mean it REALLY sounds amazing! Really, really, really.

Now the bad news:  iSilencer costs $49 new,  iGalvanic3.0 costs $375 new.  iPurifier3 costs $129 new.  BUT, the iSilencer and iPurifer3 *together* do the heavy lifting for $180..... and can be bought individually and added over time.  Both are very small devices and run off your laptop's battery via USB cable.  iGalvanic3.0 also runs off the USB cable power also and does not require any outside power.  I also use these decrapifiers for my desktop setup which is an iFi Micro iDSD Black Label--which is why I have them on hand for this experiment.


----------



## Tenashus1

happyforestgump said:


> Wow it sounds better with 6xx than your xdsd? I just sent my xdsd in because of battery issues and I’m pretty much sold on the cobalt. Can you share your opinion on the differences between the two devices?


I was really never super impressed with my HD6XX despite all the hype. I put it aside a lot. I tried it with the DFR, the Nano BL, and the xDSD, and it still didn't do the trick for me. I thought I wasted some fairly big bucks, and focused more on my DT990 Pro and Grados. Along comes the DFC and the 6XX is like a new set of headphones. The sound is present and clear, the separation is better, and the music doesn't sound distant and muted anymore but fresh and lively with the DFC. I don't exactly know how, but the DFC has breathed new life into the 6XX. It's made my original purchase of the 6XX now justifiable, and I'm happy about that.


Condocondor said:


> I use the iFi Audio's iPurifier3 and iSilencer (jitterbug) and notice a very nice difference.  I'm assuming your Schitt Wyrd does something similar?
> 
> 1) Laptop ---> iSilencer ---> Generic 2' USB3.0 Cable ---> iPurifier3 ---> DFC
> 2) Laptop ---> Generic 2' USB3.0 Cable ---> iGalvanic3.0 ---> iSilencer ---> Generic 1' USB3.0 Cable ---> iPurifier3 ---> DFC
> ...



I have an iPurifier3, and I use it all the time with my DFC on my MacBook Pro. Very clean sounding.


----------



## Condocondor (Jul 29, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> I have an iPurifier3, and I use it all the time with my DFC on my MacBook Pro. Very clean sounding.



Add the iSilencer for $49 to the mix.  It takes it up another notch and takes the final little edge off and creates a smoothness I can't describe any further. You can use the it between the iPurifier3 and DFC since the iSilencer will not go into the USB C laptop w/o adapter.


----------



## Tenashus1

Condocondor said:


> Add the iSilencer for $49 to the mix.  It takes it up another notch and takes the final little edge off and creates a smoothness I can't describe any further. You can use the it between the iPurifier3 and DFC since the iSilencer will not go into the USB C laptop w/o adapter.


Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## comzee (Jul 29, 2019)

Condocondor said:


> Now the bad news:  iSilencer costs $49 new,  iGalvanic3.0 costs $375 new.  iPurifier3 costs $129 new.  BUT, the iSilencer and iPurifer3 *together* do the heavy lifting for $180..... and can be bought individually and added over time.  Both are very small devices and run off your laptop's battery via USB cable.  iGalvanic3.0 also runs off the USB cable power also and does not require any outside power.  I also use these decrapifiers for my desktop setup which is an iFi Micro iDSD Black Label--which is why I have them on hand for this experiment.



This really gets into the area of use case. DFC $300 + iSilencer/iPurifier3 $180 = $480.
A Schiit Modi Multibit $250 + Schiit Eitr $180 = $430.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the Mimby + Eitr would be better. This is if one wants to use the DFC purely as a DAC for desktop setups. DFC has more use cases being can go portable, or be used as an dac/amp combo. Mimby needs an amp.


----------



## tracyca

Sad to report but my Cobalt usb is loose loose and wiggles. It still plays and seems fine but it still worries me.


----------



## alpha421

Damn.  Makes me wonder if I should wait a month or two for the stocks to deplete and to see if AQ has fixed what sounds like an infamous issue.


----------



## Tenashus1

tracyca said:


> Sad to report but my Cobalt usb is loose loose and wiggles. It still plays and seems fine but it still worries me.


Audiquest says the wiggle is okay. If it rattles inside, then that's another story.


----------



## jnorris

If the wiggle is actually movement of the entire internal circuit board, including the USB and headphone out, then it's probably OK.  If any of these components wiggle separately, then there will be wear and eventual failure due to it.  If the DFC was used in a stationary situation, such as behind a computer, the effects would be minimized, but the DFC was designed as a portable, on-the-go device and under those stresses the wiggle is a problem.


----------



## Bitsir

Pretty bummed to report that my Cobalt spazzes out and turns into a distorted demon every 20 minutes or so when plugged to my phone.

Thankfully I just have to unplug and plug it back in to make it stop but it's annoying. I'm not using any other apps or EQ.

Hopefully there's a firmware fix coming for it.

Anyone else got this problem? My phone is the  OnePlus 5.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Bitsir said:


> Pretty bummed to report that my Cobalt spazzes out and turns into a distorted demon every 20 minutes or so when plugged to my phone.
> 
> Thankfully I just have to unplug and plug it back in to make it stop but it's annoying. I'm not using any other apps or EQ.
> 
> ...



Nope.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 30, 2019)

happyforestgump said:


> Wow it sounds better with 6xx than your xdsd? I just sent my xdsd in because of battery issues and I’m pretty much sold on the cobalt. Can you share your opinion on the differences between the two devices?


The DFC and the HD6XX make remarkably good music together. I'm really quite surprised with how well the DFC shines compared to my xDSD and Nano BL. Almost disappointed at how well it sounds in comparison to these two. Sounds funny, but true. It's so smooth, quiet, and relaxed sounding. Can't say enough about it. I was ready to give up on the HD6XX, but not now.


----------



## happyforestgump

Tenashus1 said:


> The DFC and the HD6XX make remarkably good music together. I'm really quite surprised with how well the DFC shines compared to my xDSD and Nano BL. Almost disappointed at how well it sounds in comparison to these two. Sounds funny, but true. It's so smooth, quiet, and relaxed sounding. Can't say enough about it. I was ready to give up on the HD6XX, but not now.


That’s interesting. I found the 6xx to be a little underpowered by my xdsd. Nice detail, relaxed, very smooth, but lacking dynamics and high and low extension. I bought Arcam’s Rhead headphone amp and used the xdsd as a line out and wow that sounded good. More extension, dynamics, texture and energy. I was really happy for about two weeks until the battery on my dac crapped out and I had to send it in(apparently a brand new replacement is on the way). In the meantime I bought a used hd700 which I can’t properly drive and I’ve been trying really hard not to just go to my store and pick the cobalt up because I can’t stand being off my tunes. I might have to sell the xdsd once it arrives. The cobalt seems like a lot better solution since I won’t have battery issues and I have a powerful class A amp for my hard to drive headphones.


----------



## Deftone

Got a cobalt coming very soon, I will give some feedback on how well it drives my headphones, other sound impressions will have to come later though.


----------



## joesuburb

My Cobalt came yesterday.  I notice an improvement over my Red, worth the money.  The wiggle complaining is dumb.  Its just the board in the case not being tight.  Probably a different manufacturing method to secure the case since its round, not flat.  A total non-issue.


----------



## Father Schu

Something doesn't sound right if some people have units with no wiggle (e.g., quote "rock solid") and others have it to possibly varying degrees.  I'd like to get a better explanation on the design and operation prior to taking the plunge.


----------



## joesuburb

Father Schu said:


> Something doesn't sound right if some people have units with no wiggle (e.g., quote "rock solid") and others have it to possibly varying degrees.  I'd like to get a better explanation on the design and operation prior to taking the plunge.


Mine has a, "wiggle" and in no way does it feel like a manufacturing defect.  Just the board in the case not being sandwiched in super tight.  Non-issue if you ask me.


----------



## megabigeye

Father Schu said:


> Something doesn't sound right if some people have units with no wiggle (e.g., quote "rock solid") and others have it to possibly varying degrees.  I'd like to get a better explanation on the design and operation prior to taking the plunge.


Agreed.
This sounds like a manufacturing tolerances issue— 1) no wiggle (within spec), 2) some wiggle (within spec), 3) wiggle plus rattling sound (out of spec).


----------



## thecrow (Jul 31, 2019)

joesuburb said:


> The wiggle complaining is *dumb*.


Seriously?

I think you can do better In sharing your opinion


----------



## Tenashus1 (Jul 31, 2019)

thecrow said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I think you can do better In sharing your opinion


When I called Audioquest Support, they told me the wiggle was NOT a defect but a result of the new design. If there was rattling inside along with the wiggle, that was a potential issue.


----------



## Cynistrategus

Can we define rattling? I had bought a Black and exchanged for a Cobalt and if I shake the Cobalt, I hear a noise, but I think it’s the metal USB port contacting the plastic.  Are there people with the wiggle who can shake their Cobalt and hear nothing?  

Also, I find it interesting that the Black had to be played at very low volume with my desktop and in ear headphones, whereas the Cobalt uses much more of the volume range of the source even though it’s supposedly more efficient.


----------



## joesuburb

thecrow said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I think you can do better In sharing your opinion


I didn't mean to come across harsh.  Sorry.  But seriously, its like a million other USB devices I've used over the years.  I can't believe anyone would notice, let alone pretend the, "wiggle" is an issue.  Its just a board in a plastic case.


----------



## thecrow

thecrow said:


> Seriously?





joesuburb said:


> I didn't mean to come across harsh.  Sorry.  But seriously, its like a million other USB devices I've used over the years.  I can't believe anyone would notice, let alone pretend the, "wiggle" is an issue.  Its just a board in a plastic case.


your opinion on the rattle is a totally valid one

My issue was with the wording /description of others’ opinions

Cheers


----------



## Deftone

Shall we just get this thread renamed to the audioquest cobalt wiggle durability thread.


----------



## Tenashus1

I think the wiggle talk needs to decrease, and talk about the sonic character of the DFC needs to increase.


----------



## musicisthekey

#Wigglegate


----------



## happyforestgump

Who’s using this mainly as a dac? What are your impressions?


----------



## Wheel Hoss

The only kind of wiggle I’m interested in discussing ad nauseum isn’t an appropriate subject matter for this family-friendly forum.


----------



## TwilightCoda

I'm not sure AQ has anywhere to go from the Red/Black. It's a new name and a couple casual updates, but I'll be interested to see the measurements roll in.


----------



## Haden2866

TwilightCoda said:


> I'm not sure AQ has anywhere to go from the Red/Black. It's a new name and a couple casual updates, but I'll be interested to see the measurements roll in.


Plenty of positive impressions and comparisons to Red and Black on this thread.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

I've very recently taken delivery of DFC.  It's too early to give any sound impressions though I can say it drives my HE560s and Alpha Dogs without any problem. Not tried with my LCD 2Vs or Ether 2s yet but I don't really envisage using it with them. 

I've had a few instances where the sound has distorted horribly for periods of about 20 seconds.  This hasn't been headphone dependent or triggered by movement or any thing else I can ascertain?

Perhaps the main problem though is that I can't get the volume to the desired level when using IEMs with my LG V30. The volume steps become too big with DFC. I wonder if anyone has any convenient fix for this?


----------



## Deftone

Steve Wilcox said:


> I've very recently taken delivery of DFC.  It's too early to give any sound impressions though I can say it drives my HE560s and Alpha Dogs without any problem. Not tried with my LCD 2Vs or Ether 2s yet but I don't really envisage using it with them.
> 
> I've had a few instances where the sound has distorted horribly for periods of about 20 seconds.  This hasn't been headphone dependent or triggered by movement or any thing else I can ascertain?
> 
> Perhaps the main problem though is that I can't get the volume to the desired level when using IEMs with my LG V30. The volume steps become too big with DFC. I wonder if anyone has any convenient fix for this?



USB audio player pro let's you choose up to 100 steps on the volume.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Thanks. I may have to spend some time getting to grips with UAPP. I've tended to avoid it as I always seem to have annoying problems. I'd initially used UAPP with the DFC but the same track kept repeating and I just switched to the Qobuz app rather than spend the time finding the UAPP setting that was causing the problem.


----------



## Deftone

Steve Wilcox said:


> Thanks. I may have to spend some time getting to grips with UAPP. I've tended to avoid it as I always seem to have annoying problems. I'd initially used UAPP with the DFC but the same track kept repeating and I just switched to the Qobuz app rather than spend the time finding the UAPP setting that was causing the problem.



You might have accidentally tapped repeat single track or album toggle.


----------



## Deftone

UAPP has just had another update for further support with DFC, I haven't used any other apps where the developers are this committed to the quality of the player.

UAPP in the settings set to bitpefect mode and use hardware volume control up to 50 or 100 steps, that way even at minimum volume your getting maximum dynamic range and no bits are lost.


----------



## Deftone

The Cobalt is impressing me the more I use it, large 3d soundstage and air all the way up through bass to treble. No sibilance or digital harshness at all, very detailed. Hard to believe when this DAC is so small.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Aug 2, 2019)

Deftone said:


> The Cobalt is impressing me the more I use it, large 3d soundstage and air all the way up through bass to treble. No sibilance or digital harshness at all, very detailed. Hard to believe when this DAC is so small.


Better sound than my iFi Nano BL and xDSD. Hard to believe, but true for me. Sad in a way. These were my trusty devices, but now I go straight for the DFC.


----------



## Deftone

Tenashus1 said:


> Better sound than my iFi Nano BL and xDSD. Hard to believe, but true for me.



It doesn't have enough power as i would like to get the bass weight out of my HD660S like a desktop amp and I shouldn't expect it to for its size but it's still very enjoyable, perfect for IE800S and other easier to drive earphones/headphones.

One thing that's standing out the most to me and I think my favourite thing about it is I can't get earphone I own to sound congested and muddy, which happened often before with dacs under 1,000. Cobalt has a very nice ability to unravel complex and dense pieces of music and then throw it out in a wide open space.


----------



## Father Schu

I just picked one of these up to try it out.

The complete USB portion through the 3.5mm jack moves slightly (wiggles).

I plan on inquiring with Audioquest as to why it was designed this way and will give it a listen.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Aug 3, 2019)

Father Schu said:


> I just picked one of these up to try it out.
> 
> The complete USB portion through the 3.5mm jack moves slightly (wiggles).
> 
> I plan on inquiring with Audioquest as to why it was designed this way and will give it a listen.


They told me it wasn't an issue.


Father Schu said:


> I just picked one of these up to try it out.
> 
> The complete USB portion through the 3.5mm jack moves slightly (wiggles).
> 
> I plan on inquiring with Audioquest as to why it was designed this way and will give it a listen.


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 5, 2019)

The more I listen to this little s**t......the more I like it.  I think COBALT is a game changer.....


----------



## Deftone

So this is the first DAC I've owned that uses a minimum phase slow roll off filter, the benefit is no pre ringing at the expense of phase and distortion in high frequencies but I'm not hearing anything problematic at all, most of it must be above my hearing ability of 16.5khz. I'm really enjoying the way percussion sounds on the cobalt and music overal just having a tighter and more solid sound.


 

The older Dragonfly Black & Red are using short delay sharp.


----------



## Sotiris (Aug 4, 2019)

billbishere said:


> Same Power as Red - Same OMP as Red
> DAC chip is nothing special
> cost +100 over the red over a different DAC chip
> 
> PASS




Totally agree... Just a newer and better dac doesnot mean better sound.There are many other parameters that if you change them eg 24 bit flac songs, that will make you think that you bought new DAC.Everything else is just marketing and reviews that what to make you buy it.After reading many reviews i think most of them are not objective and behind them are product companies...
Also i think DFR for its price has a veryyy good ratio of price/perfomance....Cobalt losses that battle.

I have DFR with jitterbug...  but i dont use it together.. i prefer to use jitterbug on my NAS usb port....

Trust you ears not the reviewers, its their job so being their job , they get paid....


----------



## Sotiris

Deftone said:


> So this is the first DAC I've owned that uses a minimum phase slow roll off filter, the benefit is no pre ringing at the expense of phase and distortion in high frequencies but I'm not hearing anything problematic at all, most of it must be above my hearing ability of 16.5khz. I'm really enjoying the way percussion sounds on the cobalt and music overal just having a tighter and more solid sound.
> 
> 
> 
> The older Dragonfly Black & Red are using short delay sharp.




Shor delay sharp is better that short delay slow. Slow losses a lot of details.


----------



## Deftone

Sotiris said:


> Shor delay sharp is better that short delay slow. *Slow losses a lot of details*.



Youre probably right but i cant hear it. I get all the detail i want from my headphones.


----------



## Sotiris

Deftone said:


> Youre probably right but i cant hear it. I get all the detail i want from my headphones.



Cayin Dap N6 has this option of sharp and slow and i always switch it to sharp....


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Sotiris said:


> Totally agree... Just a newer and better dac doesnot mean better sound.There are many other parameters that if you change them eg 24 bit flac songs, that will make you think that you bought new DAC.Everything else is just marketing and reviews that what to make you buy it.After reading many reviews i think most of them are not objective and behind them are product companies...
> Also i think DFR for its price has a veryyy good ratio of price/perfomance....Cobalt losses that battle.
> 
> I have DFR with jitterbug...  but i dont use it together.. i prefer to use jitterbug on my NAS usb port....
> ...



I’m not a paid reviewer, just a normal head-fier. The Cobalt clearly sounds better than the Red. I sold my Red after owning the Cobalt for one day and I regret nothing.


----------



## Sotiris (Aug 4, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’m not a paid reviewer, just a normal head-fier. The Cobalt clearly sounds better than the Red. I sold my Red after owning the Cobalt for one day and I regret nothing.



Also i tried Cobalt and i find worse that Red so i sold it and stayed with Red. So whom readers will believe since it seems both to tell truth?

A lot of times i have brought product based on  'simple' guys like me who happens to review a product just for fun and their poor perfomance has nothing to do with these 'true' reviews which descibe a perfect product.

Also its too suspicious when a product come to life ,automatically rave reviews appear everywhere....


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Sotiris said:


> Also i tried Cobalt and i find worse that Red so i sold it and stayed with Red. So whom readers will believe since it seems both to tell truth?
> 
> A lot of times i have brought product based on  'simple' guys like me who happens to review a product just for fun and their poor perfomance has nothing to do with these 'true' reviews which descibe a perfect product.
> 
> Also its too suspicious when a product come to life ,automatically rave reviews appear everywhere....



Then why are you even on Head-fi if you don’t care what others have to say? This is a discussion forum. 95% of the people on here who have bought the Cobalt are very pleased with it. There’s nothing suspicious about the Cobalt getting good reviews. Every one of the Dragonfly’s has been hailed as a good product. They all produce fantastic sound for such a small form factor and Audioquest is not some new, fly-by-night company. They’ve been around for quite a while. Maybe you need to chill out with the conspiracy theories. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. I love it. And I’m not making a dime for saying that. I paid $299 for mine just like you did.


----------



## Condocondor

Sotiris said:


> Also i tried Cobalt and i find worse that Red so i sold it and stayed with Red. So whom readers will believe since it seems both to tell truth?



Totally respect your opinion....BUT, I question how that could be?  DACs do need time to break-in and so I wonder if you allowed sufficient time for that?  And could it be that your DFR was very well broken-in?  Could you also have had a defective COBALT unit? Clearly, DFR being superior is a minority report.  

Also, can you imagine how stupid (and brazen) it would be for Audioquest to come out with a new model that is 50% MORE expensive but only questionably or minutely better?  It would be marketing suicide for Audioquest.  So, with all due respect for your opinion, it doesn't add up.  What do you think could have happened, if in fact, Cobalt was better but somehow you failed to hear the difference?


----------



## Tenashus1

Condocondor said:


> Totally respect your opinion....BUT, I question how that could be?  DACs do need time to break-in and so I wonder if you allowed sufficient time for that?  And could it be that your DFR was very well broken-in?  Could you also have had a defective COBALT unit? Clearly, DFR being superior is a minority report.
> 
> Also, can you imagine how stupid (and brazen) it would be for Audioquest to come out with a new model that is 50% MORE expensive but only questionably or minutely better?  It would be marketing suicide for Audioquest.  So, with all due respect for your opinion, it doesn't add up.  What do you think could have happened, if in fact, Cobalt was better but somehow you failed to hear the difference?


Loving my DFC. Absolutely no regrets. Already got at least $100 worth of enjoyment out of it, and it only gets better. Life is too short to quibble.


----------



## JohnNick

Sotiris said:


> Totally agree... Just a newer and better dac doesnot mean better sound.There are many other parameters that if you change them eg 24 bit flac songs, that will make you think that you bought new DAC.Everything else is just marketing and reviews that what to make you buy it.After reading many reviews i think most of them are not objective and behind them are product companies...
> Also i think DFR for its price has a veryyy good ratio of price/perfomance....Cobalt losses that battle.
> 
> I have DFR with jitterbug...  but i dont use it together.. i prefer to use jitterbug on my NAS usb port....
> ...



Reviewers give us the idea that with the emergence of DFC the acclaimed DFR looks like bad equipment and totally obsolete. Funny that.


----------



## JohnNick

I ended up stopping on this topic to try to find out if it really pays to pay an extra 100 usd for cobalt, but it's hard to decide. I just want to improve the sound of my in ears, for portable use with the phone (galaxy S9).


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

JohnNick said:


> Reviewers give us the idea that with the emergence of DFC the acclaimed DFR looks like bad equipment and totally obsolete. Funny that.



I own the Sennheiser 800S and love it. It came after the 600 and 650. Did that make them obsolete? No. There are still plenty of people that love those models and prefer their sound signature. From a technical standpoint, they’re definitely inferior, but that doesn’t mean people can’t prefer their sound. So if anyone prefers the sound of the Dragonfly Red to the Cobalt, then more power to you. 

My problem is not that someone PREFERS the Red to the Cobalt. It’s when he implies that our reviews are fake or that we’re somehow getting paid to lie about how good we think the Cobalt sounds. I don’t work for Audioquest and I’m not a sponsor for anything related to audio. I’ve also given many unbiased reviews for other audio products and numerous headphones. And I do it because I love this hobby and enjoy sharing with this community. I’ve made many blind purchases on here based on what others have said, and most of the reports have been pretty accurate. 

So you can disagree all you want. But don’t start calling people shills for no reason unless you want to be called out for trolling.


----------



## JohnNick

I appreciate your opinion, do not misunderstand me. I am not directly criticizing any reviewer, I am just reporting that it is difficult to choose a product that was acclaimed when it has a new and "better" product from the company.

For those who have never heard of DFR, is it really worth the extra 100 usd for DFC? That's the answer I'm trying to find out.


----------



## thecrow

Hifiearspeakers said:


> So you can disagree all you want. But don’t start calling people shills for no reason unless you want to be called out for trolling.


You may have confused or combined posts/ideas from JohnNick with Sotiris over the last few pages

But i might be wrong


----------



## a-LeXx

Well, the DFC has an interesting pricing. The manufacturing costs should be the same or close to that of DFR, it‘s made basically of newer versions of the same components, which have the same pricing as the older components a few years ago. So, why a 50% higher asking price? Did you guys have such a massive inflation in the US during the last 3-5years? What justifies the price? Don‘t say it‘s R&D, DFR/DFC cost both maybe $15 in components, probably less...


----------



## Condocondor

Aside from the parts, there is quite of bit of coding from what I've read, that went into the COBALT project.  It's not just parts upgrades.


----------



## Sotiris

JohnNick said:


> Reviewers give us the idea that with the emergence of DFC the acclaimed DFR looks like bad equipment and totally obsolete. Funny that.




Totally agree....If you read reviews about DFR before cobalt , you will believe that os the best product of Audioquest....


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

thecrow said:


> You may have confused or combined posts/ideas from JohnNick with Sotiris over the last few pages
> 
> But i might be wrong



I was making a general statement. My comments weren’t directed specifically at JohnNick.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 5, 2019)

Condocondor said:


> Aside from the parts, there is quite of bit of coding from what I've read, that went into the COBALT project.  It's not just parts upgrades.


Well, it's an internal R&D investment and it doesn't bother me as a user, because the end product is not getting e.g. any new features through this. Any new HW generation always needs some SW changes, if any software is involved at all, for any product, if it's not a knock-off...
Basically DFC is the same product as DFR, based on a newer available components. Well, at the time DFR was released, those components were also new, they also required some coding. This doesn't really justify a price increase of 50%. So, either there is some ongoing inflation in the US, which I believe to some extent is true, or AQ is just trying to milk their customer base.


----------



## thecrow

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I was making a general statement. My comments weren’t directed specifically at JohnNick.


Cool

I was worried that @JohnNick was getting worried

(And i had no problem with your post either)


----------



## megabigeye (Aug 5, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Well, it's an internal R&D investment and it doesn't bother me as a user, because the end product is not getting e.g. any new features through this. Any new HW generation always needs some SW changes, if any software is involved at all, for any product, if it's not a knock-off...
> Basically DFC is the same product as DFR, based on a newer available components. Well, at the time DFR was released, those components were also new, they also required some coding. This doesn't really justify a price increase of 50%. So, either there is some ongoing inflation in the US, which I believe to some extent is true, or AQ is just trying to milk their customer base.


I think what you're calling "milking the customer," AudioQuest would probably call "retaining sales" and "not going bankrupt."

Product pricing is a tricky business and there are books and business school classes dedicated to it.  Part of the problem is that, if they had a lower price for the Cobalt, the DFC's sales will start to eat into the sales of the DFR; then they have to lower the price of the Red, then its sales will cannibalize the Black's sales.  So they either raise the price of the top tier models so that it's meaningfully distinguishable from the lower models, or they risk losing sales of other models.
Then they could, say, drop the Black altogether and lower the price of the Red to fill somewhere closer to that price slot.  Then what happens?  Then, for new customers especially, people don't only see a $200 device that's now available for $100—a bargain— they also see a $100 device that used to sell for the absurd price of $200— a ripoff— and this image extends to the rest of the company's product portfolio.  Things are further complicated by the fact that now the DFC no longer costs 50% more than the DFR, it costs 100% more.

I think part of the trick is that the price of a product isn't just a matter of adding up the costs of materials and R&D and manufacturing and whatever other overhead they have, it's all of that plus taking into consideration how that price affects how the customer perceives the _value_ of that product, all similar products from that company, and, ultimately, all of that company's products (and beyond that, the value of all similar products throughout the market...  and when that happens it's all a race to the bottom to see who can survive the longest on the lowest margins (Hint: it's Amazon)).

Does this mean that I agree with their pricing strategy?  Eh, I don't know.  I'd like to think that if it were up to me, I'd introduce two new products as upgrades/updates to the Black and Red, raise the prices by something like 10%-30%, and then discontinue both of the older models...  Of course, this raises the problem of having a limited product portfolio.

Like I said, it's not just a matter of adding up costs and dividing it by sales.  It's tricky.


----------



## jnorris

megabigeye said:


> I think what you're calling "milking the customer," AudioQuest would probably call "retaining sales" and "not going bankrupt."
> 
> Product pricing is a tricky business and there are books and business school classes dedicated to it.  Part of the problem is that, if they had a lower price for the Cobalt, the DFC's sales will start to eat into the sales of the DFR; then they have to lower the price of the Red, then its sales will cannibalize the Black's sales.  So they either raise the price of the top tier models so that it's meaningfully distinguishable from the lower models, or they risk losing sales of other models.
> Then they could, say, drop the Black altogether and lower the price of the Red to fill somewhere closer to that price slot.  Then what happens?  Then, for new customers especially, people don't only see a $200 device that's now available for $100—a bargain— they also see a $100 device that used to sell for the absurd price of $200— a ripoff— and this image extends to the rest of the company's product portfolio.  Things are further complicated by the fact that now the DFC no longer costs 50% more than the DFR, it costs 100% more.
> ...




The Dragonflies, starting from the second iteration which sold for $100 I believe, represented the only products in Audioquest's lineup that represented true value.  Much of the rest of their offerings were mostly overpriced and overhyped optical, USB and RCA cables.  I currently own that second iteration and the DFR, and still believe they represent good value, having used them for years with satisfactory results.  It was only upon comparison with somewhat more costly DACs that their failings became apparent.  I do not believe that at $300, the Cobalt represents a good value at all, and it seems that AudioQuest is once again breeching that price/performance relationship.  I have not heard the Cobalt, but my guess is that the same failings will show themselves when the device is compared with similarly priced or moderately higher-priced devices.  There just isn't enough new technology in the Cobalt to warrant the additional cost.


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 5, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> Like I said, it's not just a matter of adding up costs and dividing it by sales. It's tricky.



What is beautiful is that you're willing to try and understand what is going on.  The other thing is that AQ can always come down in price but customers don't like it when prices go up.  Right now, AQ has a fine product in COBALT with few equally performing competitors in it's dongle class.  Who else is using the ESS 9038, Microchip's superb PIC32MX274 microprocessor, and ESS's 9016 amp, in a dongle with MQA unfolding?  No one that I know.  The spoils go to the innovators & first movers plain and simple.  Good for them.  I hope AQ's success with COBALT will draw competitors with "as good or better" specifications.  For now I still thinks there's still a lot of value in COBALT at $300 based on the few (if any) current portable alternatives with similar performance.  Next year?  Who knows?  Perhaps the market will be flooded with similar gear and I'll regret jumping on the band wagon so soon (me, not really)? In the mean time, I like the value-to-performance of COBALT.  Do I wish it was even cheaper?  Sure, but it's OK at $300.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 5, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> I think what you're calling "milking the customer," AudioQuest would probably call "retaining sales" and "not going bankrupt."



That's what all other HW manufacturers usually do: new product is being released for a same price (or adjusted for inflation) as an old one. The old one is being reduced in price. If there is even an older version, it's being reduced further or discontinued, because manufacturing of too many versions of the product does not have any business justifications - manufacturing costs for all versions are almost the same, different pricing is there to serve all market segments.

So, no, AQ would not go bankrupt from selling the DFC for the same price as DFR. They just made a probably educated decision that market is ready to pay more. Or they want to upsale the DFR.

There is a well known business case taught for beginners at every business school. It's about McDonalds, and how they were 'creative' with their profit optimization. Everyone knows most profit is in the sales of beverages. Initially they just had small (0.33l or whatever you guys use in the US) and 0.5l big sizes for Cola. Most customers went for small. Then they introduced new big size 1l, and renamed old 0.5l size into medium. From that point on, most customers went for a medium 0.5l size...


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 5, 2019)

BTW, If AQ came out with a Dragonfly Purple that had 2X/3X the power and had a balanced jack similar to LH Labs GOV2 for $499-699, I'd buy it.


----------



## Sotiris

For me what i hate most is marketing . I love my DFR , i use it every day but when you launch a new product and you try to create the need to buy it by comparing to the  previous one which suddenly is not the super duper product you used to praise in all the reviews, then you dont respect me as a customer and you just want to sell . Not all companies are like that.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Sotiris said:


> For me what i hate most is marketing . I love my DFR , i use it every day but when you launch a new product and you try to create the need to buy it by comparing to the  previous one which suddenly is not the super duper product you used to praise in all the reviews, then you dont respect me as a customer and you just want to sell . Not all companies are like that.



You’re joking right? So every year there’s a newer car model to the previous one that is touted as better, newer shoe model, headphone, skateboard, refrigerator, microwave, contact lens, tv, speaker, iPad, smartphone, tire, computers, etc. 

That’s what every business tries to do. They try to improve the previous model. That’s called PROGRESS. That’s why the LED lightbulbs of today are much better than the incandescent bulbs from 50 years ago and better than the CFL bulbs from 20 years ago. They are less fragile and extremely more efficient. My Sony tv has local dimming. So it produces blacks better than the older LCD panels. And guess what? It costs more. We pay for innovation. 

If you don’t want the Cobalt then don’t buy it. But you bitching about a company that has improved a product and claiming that other businesses don’t do that, is ABSURD.


----------



## Gus141

Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html


----------



## megabigeye (Aug 5, 2019)

jnorris said:


> The Dragonflies, starting from the second iteration which sold for $100 I believe, represented the only products in Audioquest's lineup that represented true value.  Much of the rest of their offerings were mostly overpriced and overhyped optical, USB and RCA cables.  I currently own that second iteration and the DFR, and still believe they represent good value, having used them for years with satisfactory results.  It was only upon comparison with somewhat more costly DACs that their failings became apparent.  I do not believe that at $300, the Cobalt represents a good value at all, and it seems that AudioQuest is once again breeching that price/performance relationship.  I have not heard the Cobalt, but my guess is that the same failings will show themselves when the device is compared with similarly priced or moderately higher-priced devices.  There just isn't enough new technology in the Cobalt to warrant the additional cost.


I think what you're forgetting is that the Cobalt offers benefits other than its sound: it's tiny, doesn't require charging or AC power, functions as a standalone DAC, etc.  Yeah, there might be other products that are competitive on sound and price, but they give up some of the other features that make the DragonFly lineup unique (although it is less unique now than it once was).



Condocondor said:


> What is beautiful is that you're willing to try and understand what is going on.  The other thing is that AQ can always come down in price but customers don't like it when prices go up.


Thanks!  I worked retail for nearly a decade...  which is a lot of time spent being horribly bored, which led me to thinking why Amazon was continually able to eat our lunch and why we couldn't really fight back, which led me to thinking about how markets work.  I'm no expert, but I like to think about it and am willing to learn.
Not certain I completely agree with your second sentence, though.  There is the saying, "if it doesn't sell, raise the price," which seems counterintuitive at first, but I think it has some merit.  If you have, for instance, a luxury car that you're trying to market, if you price it like a Toyota people will be inclined to think "what's wrong? Why is it so cheap?"  But if you price it like a Mercedes, people's gut reaction is to think "quality!"  Of course, logically most of us know that price and performance are only correlative, but that doesn't stop us from having that initial lizard brain reaction of equating the two.
This is certainly a (over-) simplification and I'm probably missing a lot of nuance.  I think it boils down to too high a price being perceived as "overpriced" and too low a price being perceived as "cheap."



a-LeXx said:


> That's what all other HW manufacturers usually do: new product is being released for a same price (or adjusted for inflation) as an old one. The old one is being reduced in price. If there is even an older version, it's being reduced further or discontinued, because manufacturing of too many versions of the product does not have any business justifications - manufacturing costs for all versions are almost the same, different pricing is there to serve all market segments.
> 
> So, no, AQ would not go bankrupt from selling the DFC for the same price as DFR. They just made a probably educated decision that market is ready to pay more. Or they want to upsale the DFR.
> 
> There is a well known business case taught for beginners at every business school. It's about McDonalds, and how they were 'creative' with their profit optimization. Everyone knows most profit is in the sales of beverages. Initially they just had small (0.33l or whatever you guys use in the US) and 0.5l big sizes for Cola. Most customers went for small. Then they introduced new big size 1l, and renamed old 0.5l size into medium. From that point on, most customers went for a medium 0.5l size...


Yeah, I guess I was intentionally overstating the case with saying they could go bankrupt, and it was a word I added after I'd written the rest of that response.
But my point stands that if they want to sell all three devices, then they can't have them priced too closely or they'll cannibalize each other's sales.

That's an interesting anecdote about McDonald's and one I'd almost forgotten about, though I must've had it somewhere in the back of my head.  To be sure, though, AudioQuest is not McDonalds and designing a new DAC is not the same as adding a larger size soft drink.  As soon as I posted my previous comment I realized that what I would really want to do is to create a new flagship model that costs _significantly more_ (and has corresponding performance) than the other models, so that an upgraded DFR (the DFC?) could become the bread and butter for the company.

Ultimately, I think the two of us are probably in agreement, but we're going about it slightly differently.  You think the price is too high, I'm still considering whether or not that's the case for me.



Condocondor said:


> BTW, If AQ came out with a Dragonfly Purple that had 2X/3X the power and had a balanced jack similar to LH Labs GOV2 for $499-699, I'd buy it.


EXACTLY!


----------



## Sotiris

Hifiearspeakers said:


> You’re joking right? So every year there’s a newer car model to the previous one that is touted as better, newer shoe model, headphone, skateboard, refrigerator, microwave, contact lens, tv, speaker, iPad, smartphone, tire, computers, etc.
> 
> That’s what every business tries to do. They try to improve the previous model. That’s called PROGRESS. That’s why the LED lightbulbs of today are much better than the incandescent bulbs from 50 years ago and better than the CFL bulbs from 20 years ago. They are less fragile and extremely more efficient. My Sony tv has local dimming. So it produces blacks better than the older LCD panels. And guess what? It costs more. We pay for innovation.
> 
> If you don’t want the Cobalt then don’t buy it. But you bitching about a company that has improved a product and claiming that other businesses don’t do that, is ABSURD.


 

A new refrigerator with wifi and a screen doesnot keep products more fresh than a simple refrigerator . A new car with facelift isnot better than previous product.


----------



## joshuachew

Okay Bro. Don't buy the Dragonfly Cobalt. Don't need to be so sour about it.  
First class flights also make no sense. But guess what.... Those cabins are still filled. All because something is not for you, does not mean that it's a scam. 
You must not be very fun on a diamond or jewelery forum lmao


----------



## Tenashus1

Gus141 said:


> Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html


Interesting. Doesn't square with my personal experience with the Cobalt. Maybe a placebo effect, but placebos work, and I'm enjoying my Cobalt. Then you can say that I'm saying I'm enjoying it to justify my purchase and opinion. Don't have an explanation other than I like the sound.


----------



## megabigeye

Gus141 said:


> Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html


I'm going to quote myself from the other DragonFly thread here:


megabigeye said:


> Yeah.  I remember seeing the Audio Science measurements and for a moment second guessing the DFR...  But then I thought, _I just don't care._  I don't care if it measures well or not, I don't care if it's "objectively" good, I don't care if it doesn't sound good to Susan from accounting or Joe Sixpack.  *It sounds good to me and I like it*_._





Sotiris said:


> A new refrigerator with wifi and a screen doesnot keep products more fresh than a simple refrigerator . A new car with facelift isnot better than previous product.


What companies don't upgrade their products?  Honest question, I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.  FiiO does (or did) it so frequently that I don't like buying their products because I feel like I'm getting a half-baked product that's going to be updated in a few months.

And a car's "facelift" is called a "mid-cycle refresh" and generally happens 3 or 4 years into a model's life cycle.  You're right, it's usually cosmetic and doesn't affect the car's performance (though sometimes it does if there's a big enough issue).  Though don't underestimate aesthetics as something valued by most people.  It might not make a car faster, but it certainly makes it more valuable.
A new model year (AKA, full refresh) for a car almost universally does include improvements in space, performance, economy, safety, features, looks etc.  That's why a 2019 3-Series Bimmer is significantly different from a 1980s 3-Series.


----------



## Haden2866

Tenashus1 said:


> Interesting. Doesn't square with my personal experience with the Cobalt. Maybe a placebo effect, but placebos work, and I'm enjoying my Cobalt. Then you can say that I'm saying I'm enjoying it to justify my purchase and opinion. Don't have an explanation other than I like the sound.


My favourite DAC at home uses an old Phillips TDA1543 chip and if you measured it you'd throw it in the bin right away. I sold my Chord Mojo and don't miss it. I will never sell this NOS DAC.


----------



## Gus141 (Aug 5, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> Interesting. Doesn't square with my personal experience with the Cobalt. Maybe a placebo effect, but placebos work, and I'm enjoying my Cobalt. Then you can say that I'm saying I'm enjoying it to justify my purchase and opinion. Don't have an explanation other than I like the sound.



Ditto with all of the above. Also, I never owned or listened to a DFB or DFR so I don’t have to make comparisons that ask if it’s worth the additional cost over the Cobalt’s predecessors.


----------



## Tenashus1

Gus141 said:


> Ditto with all of the above. Also, I never owned or listened to a DFB or DFR so I don’t have to make comparisons that ask if it’s worth the additional cost over the Cobalt’s predecessors.


A fortunate one!


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 5, 2019)

Gus141 said:


> Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html



Wow, interesting. The behavior of the slow roll-off minimum phase filter was expected, but the trick with the an increased output level is a bit dirty, I‘d say. Of course anything would sound airier and spacier if it‘s louder, and if you expect both DFR and DFC to have the same output levels because they have the same specs and the same output stage, it is easy to be mislead... Pushing the output stage beyond clipping even with high impedance load is really bad design and can be only explained as a marketing decision... Disappointing. Well, it shows that DFR was a good design, and it really is using up all available level  headroom...

And btw., what are those claims about lower-power components good for, if even idle power consumption of DFC is actually higher than that of DFR? That claims set some expectations in an important department (power consumption with mobile sources), which in reality turn to be just marketing blabla...

To make my point clear - it‘s not meant as AQ bashing, I‘m honestly disappointed in the moves this company is now taking. I‘m really happy with a DFR, and would happily pay $500 for an improved version of it. Main positive aspects being portability and no need to charge it or replace the battery, like with e.g. Mojo... You know, the battery is always empty when you want to use something... Not so with DFR...


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

a-LeXx said:


> Wow, interesting. The behavior of the slow roll-off minimum phase filter was expected, but the trick with the an increased output level is a bit dirty, I‘d say. Of course anything would sound airier and spacier if it‘s louder, and if you expect both DFR and DFC to have the same output levels because they have the same specs and the same output stage, it is easy to be mislead... Pushing the output stage beyond clipping even with high impedance load is really bad design and can be only explained as a marketing decision... Disappointing. Well, it shows that DFR was a good design, and it really is using up all available level  headroom...
> 
> And btw., what are those claims about lower-power components good for, if even idle power consumption of DFC is actually higher than that of DFR? That claims set some expectations in an important department (power consumption with mobile sources), which in reality turn to be just marketing blabla...
> 
> To make my point clear - it‘s not meant as AQ bashing, I‘m honestly disappointed in the moves this company is now taking. I‘m really happy with a DFR, and would happily pay $500 for an improved version of it. Main positive aspects being portability and no need to charge it or replace the battery, like with e.g. Mojo... You know, the battery is always empty when you want to use something... Not so with DFR...



Except that it does sound better than the Red, and it does use less battery consumption than the Red. I’ve had mine now for almost a month.


----------



## a-LeXx

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Except that it does sound better than the Red, and it does use less battery consumption than the Red. I’ve had mine now for almost a month.



Sorry, but that‘s your subjective opinion. While ‚sound better‘ is a subjective opinion anyway, power consumption is by no means subjective, can be easily measured and is higher on DFC compared to DFR, not by much so, but still...


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (Aug 5, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Sorry, but that‘s your subjective opinion. While ‚sound better‘ is a subjective opinion anyway, power consumption is by no means subjective, can be easily measured and is higher on DFC compared to DFR, not by much so, but still...



How is my view on power consumption subjective? I owned the Red and now own the Cobalt and it does not drain my battery faster than the Red. That’s objective, real-world experience. So unless you own a Cobalt and have actually tested it, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

And as far as sound, yes it’s subjective. But at least I actually own the Cobalt to give an informed opinion. Likewise, you saying the Cobalt sounds worse is subjective as well.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 5, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> How is my view on power consumption subjective? I owned the Red and now own the Cobalt and it does not drain my battery faster than the Red. That’s objective, real-world experience. So unless you own a Cobalt and have actually tested it, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
> 
> And as far as sound, yes it’s subjective. But at least I actually own the Cobalt to give an informed opinion. Likewise, you saying the Cobalt sounds worse is subjective as well.



Well, did yo check the measurements, both in idle and loaded state? Yes, the DFC consumes MORE power than DFR, it‘s a very simple measurement, and absolutely obective.

You don‘t see that difference? Let me explain why. DFR consumes 40mA at idle, while DFC is draining 60mA. Both values are indeed low. Nevertheless DFC is consuming 50% more. So, why don‘t you see a difference? Probably because you are using it with an average smartphone, that is equipped with a 2500-4000mAh battery. So even if you keep the dongle attached to the phone, it will drain it in 50 to 100 hours. Before that ever happens, your phone will be long recharged anyway, it‘s practically not possible to easily see that difference.

In my use case, on the other hand, I‘m using a simple ipod touch, in order to keep it as mobile as possible. That one has a battery of less than 1000mAh. If I keep even a DFR with its 40mA attached permanently, the battery is empty in a less than a day. An advertised lower power consumption of some components on DFC, leading me to believe the whole device is consuming less power, is an important differentiator. Turns out to be only marketing though....

Btw, you are putting words into my mouth that I never said. Where exactly did I say DFC sounds worse than DFR?


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (Aug 5, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Well, did yo check the measurements, both in idle and loaded state? Yes, the DFC consumes MORE power than DFR, it‘s a very simple measurement, and absolutely obective.
> 
> You don‘t see that difference? Let me explain why. DFR consumes 40mA at idle, while DFC is draining 60mA. Both values are indeed low. Nevertheless DFC is consuming 50% more. So, why don‘t you see a difference? Probably because you are using it with an average smartphone, that is equipped with a 2500-4000mAh battery. So even if you keep the dongle attached to the phone, it will drain it in 50 to 100 hours. Before that ever happens, your phone will be long recharged anyway, it‘s practically not possible to easily see that difference.
> 
> ...



Why would I keep it permanently attached? I plug it in only when I want to listen to music. But I will sit and listen for hours. That’s how I know it uses less battery than my Red did. The first day I bought the Cobalt, all I did was A&B it against my Red for hours. Not to mention that I had the Red for years and have now had the Cobalt for nearly a month. I don’t need measurements to tell me which drains my iPhone faster. In real world usage, it’s the Red.

And it’s icing on the cake that the Cobalt also sounds smoother, more detailed, and with a noticeably larger soundstage than the Red, which is why I sold my Red and have no regrets.

You didn’t say the Cobalt sounds worse than the Red, but you tried to completely discount my opinion that it sounds better, which implies you disagree. All you had to do was state your opinion, not try to discredit mine. This is Head-Fi and people come here to seek people’s opinions on sound. That’s the whole point of these forums. Discounting an opinion as subjective from someone who was an early adopter of new technology is simply rude. How the hell else can one describe sound without it being subjective?


----------



## teknorob23

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Why would I keep it permanently attached? I plug it in only when I want to listen to music. But I will sit and listen for hours. That’s how I know it uses less battery than my Red did. The first day I bought the Cobalt, all I did was A&B it against my Red for hours. Not to mention that I had the Red for years and have now had the Cobalt for nearly a month. I don’t need measurements to tell me which drains my iPhone faster. In real world usage, it’s the Red.
> 
> And it’s icing on the cake that the Cobalt also sounds smoother, more detailed, and with a noticeably larger soundstage than the Red, which is why I sold my Red and have no regrets.
> 
> You didn’t say the Cobalt sounds worse than the Red, but you tried to completely discount my opinion that it sounds better, which implies you disagree. All you had to do was state your opinion, not try to discredit mine. This is Head-Fi and people come here to seek people’s opinions on sound. That’s the whole point of these forums. Discounting an opinion as subjective from someone who was an early adopter of new technology is simply rude. How the hell else can one describe sound without it being subjective?




I've sent my DFC back, not because its not the best dragon fly, but instead based on my usage. I use the DF on short commutes by bus, train and or when i'm walking between meetings in town usually with IEMs, where the listening environment is less the perfect and i decided i wasnt really hearing the benefits over the DFR. At home or on longer journey's where i'm happy to travel or listen to my Stellias, the Hugo2 offers just enough portability and massive but unsurprising for the price tag, step up in performance especially with the full size HPs which love to scale.

I spent a good 2 weeks listening to the DFC in my (quiet) office  (i really hope amazon's bots arent reading this  ), did quite a bit of b2b comparison and for me the DFC is clearly better than the DFR in pretty much every aspect of its performance. i found the sound improvements to be pretty much exactly as @Hifiearspeakers summed it up. 

Obvs its not twice as good, but as you'd expect for this sort of premium, it is maybe 10-15% better and yes i know using percentages is arbitrary in assessing hifi unless you've carried out 100 point test , but its the best way i can illustrate/sum-up the improvement. And that 15-20% is made up of 1-5% improvements in lots of areas of its performance. And that much extra performance makes it objectively good value to me, even though my personal preferences meant i couldnt justify keeping it over the red.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 5, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Why would I keep it permanently attached? I plug it in only when I want to listen to music. But I will sit and listen for hours. That’s how I know it uses less battery than my Red did. The first day I bought the Cobalt, all I did was A&B it against my Red for hours. Not to mention that I had the Red for years and have now had the Cobalt for nearly a month. I don’t need measurements to tell me which drains my iPhone faster. In real world usage, it’s the Red.
> 
> And it’s icing on the cake that the Cobalt also sounds smoother, more detailed, and with a noticeably larger soundstage than the Red, which is why I sold my Red and have no regrets.
> 
> You didn’t say the Cobalt sounds worse than the Red, but you tried to completely discount my opinion that it sounds better, which implies you disagree. All you had to do was state your opinion, not try to discredit mine. This is Head-Fi and people come here to seek people’s opinions on sound. That’s the whole point of these forums. Discounting an opinion as subjective from someone who was an early adopter of new technology is simply rude. How the hell else can one describe sound without it being subjective?



Ok, no point in discussing with you that matter further, you seem to have your opinion and seem to stick to that, no numbers and no explanations will change that. Good you are happy with your new purchase.

And please read my words as they are, do not add any hidden agenda into them which just isn‘t there. I said your opinion is subjective, and that‘s why I cannot and will not engage into discussions about that, I never said you were wrong.

Why keeping the dongle permanently attached? I can give you a simple answer. I‘m using an ipod touch with a DFR as a dap, only for this purpose. The DFR is semi-permanently attached to the ipod with a velcro tape. It‘s a pain in the &%€ to have to detach/reattach it to the CCK, would be much nicer being able to keep it permanently attached...


----------



## Signal2Noise

But guys,

It's *BLUE*!!!!


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

a-LeXx said:


> Ok, no point in discussing with you that matter further, you seem to have your opinion and seem to stick to that, no numbers and no explanations will change that. Good you are happy with your new purchase.
> 
> And please read my words as they are, do not add any hidden agenda into them which just isn‘t there. I said your opinion is subjective, and that‘s why I cannot and will not engage into discussions about that, I never said you were wrong.
> 
> Why keeping the dongle permanently attached? I can give you a simple answer. I‘m using an ipod touch with a DFR as a dap, only for this purpose. The DFR is semi-permanently attached to the ipod with a velcro tape. It‘s a pain in the &%€ to have to detach/reattach it to the CCK, would be much nicer being able to keep it permanently attached...



Got it. Well I’ve never used any of the Dragonflies as a permanent attachment so I can’t comment on their nominal power consumption. Maybe it is worse than the Red.​


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

teknorob23 said:


> I've sent my DFC back, not because its not the best dragon fly, but instead based on my usage. I use the DF on short commutes by bus, train and or when i'm walking between meetings in town usually with IEMs, where the listening environment is less the perfect and i decided i wasnt really hearing the benefits over the DFR. At home or on longer journey's where i'm happy to travel or listen to my Stellias, the Hugo2 offers just enough portability and massive but unsurprising for the price tag, step up in performance especially with the full size HPs which love to scale.
> 
> I spent a good 2 weeks listening to the DFC in my (quiet) office  (i really hope amazon's bots arent reading this  ), did quite a bit of b2b comparison and for me the DFC is clearly better than the DFR in pretty much every aspect of its performance. i found the sound improvements to be pretty much exactly as @Hifiearspeakers summed it up.
> 
> Obvs its not twice as good, but as you'd expect for this sort of premium, it is maybe 10-15% better and yes i know using percentages is arbitrary in assessing hifi unless you've carried out 100 point test , but its the best way i can illustrate/sum-up the improvement. And that 15-20% is made up of 1-5% improvements in lots of areas of its performance. And that much extra performance makes it objectively good value to me, even though my personal preferences meant i couldnt justify keeping it over the red.



The Hugo 2 is an awesome dac/amp. I would never choose the Cobalt over it. And if I owned a Hugo 2, I wouldn’t buy a Cobalt either.


----------



## Sotiris (Aug 5, 2019)

The thing is that AQ and every audio company can create much better products compared with the one they sell...Take example of their hi end product that every company has.

I wish i had the money to buy every DFC that is out there. But i dont want to be the victim of marketing that already has in mind the DFC when it starts selling DFR.

Companies in order  to survive have to keep their sales high and continuous.  What makes me agry is to see reviewers that get for free products and they say that their review is based on their honest opinion. And out out the blue , all the time , their opinion is positive to the product...i just hate that.

And what makes me angry is people running buying every new product because the have connected new=better. New is different. To what degree is better , people will decide , not reviewers , not marketing , not shinny colours

My English in not native language but i try....


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Sotiris said:


> The thing is that AQ and every audio company can create much better products compared with the one they sell...Take example of their hi end product that every company has.
> 
> I wish i had the money to buy every DFC that is out there. But i dont want to be the victim of marketing that already has in mind the DFC when it starts selling DFR.
> 
> ...



That’s a very fair point! And I share the same opinion. You just need to understand that 99% of the people in here are not paid, professional reviewers. I joined Head-Fi for that very reason. I want to hear what normal, every day people have to say about the new equipment I want to buy. When I read a professional review, I always take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Tenashus1

I've got the Etymotic ER3XR. They don't sound great on the DFC to me, but they're wonderful on the iFi Nano BL. I have no idea why. Go figure. It must be all in my head.


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 5, 2019)

I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of Red and Cobalt.  I sold my Red last year.  I bought the Cobalt this year based on the Darko.com review.  When I got the COBALT, I noticed the treble region was less etched sounding.  The presentation was more recessed in the mids rather than so "in your face" as with Red, as per my memory.  I have no idea why the poor objective tests resulted from Archimago?  How could better DAC chips and better processor make COBALT sound inferior....or no better? Could the slow roll off filter be more palatable to my ears?  Could Archimago have had a bad sample?  The ESS SABRE 9018 in the RED had the classic SABRE treble glare that I just couldn't take.  This is why I ultimately sold my RED off.  Cobalt doesn't seem to have that same glare to my ears.


----------



## alpha421

Must be.  My ER4SR sounds really good with the DFC.


----------



## Tenashus1

alpha421 said:


> Must be.  My ER4SR sounds really good with the DFC.


Will definitely have to give it another try then. You just encouraged me. Thanks.


----------



## Deftone

Condocondor said:


> I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of Red and Cobalt.  I sold my Red last year.  I bought the Cobalt this year based on the Darko.com review.  When I got the COBALT, I noticed the treble region was less etched sounding.  The presentation was more recessed in the mids rather than so "in your face" as with Red, as per my memory.  I have no idea why the poor objective tests resulted from Archimago?  How could better DAC chips and better processor make COBALT sound inferior....or no better? Could the slow roll off filter be more palatable to my ears?  Could Archimago have had a bad sample?  The ESS SABRE 9018 in the RED had the classic SABRE treble glare that I just couldn't take.  This is why I ultimately sold my RED off.  Cobalt doesn't seem to have that same glare to my ears.



I also hear the mid pushed back a little, i think it's what could be contributing to the more spacious sound but it doesn't show on measurements.


----------



## Tenashus1

Tenashus1 said:


> Will definitely have to give it another try then. You just encouraged me. Thanks.


I spoke too soon. This DFC is just great sounding. The Etymotics sound really, really fine.


----------



## a-LeXx

The bad measurements from Archimago have 2 different root causes, and you might not be affected by neither of them.

First problem, a very severe one, is clipping. You will never hear this, as you will never run DFC at 100% volume with Headphones. So it‘s rather a bad design/ugly, but has almost no real live impact.

The second problem is with a filter. Slow roll-off minimum phase filter never measures well. It‘s just too weak a filter. It just has too many problems, frequency roll-off, aliasing and so on. No way it can measure as good as other filters. Technically speaking, the brickwall filter used in the original Dragonfly 1.2 is the best.

But people are strange beings. We do not always prefer things that are technically better. Many people do love that bit of softening at very high frequencies, and so on.

Anyway, it was a very bold decision of AQ to implement this filter as a default and not switchable  one, as it was clear it will measure badly. No other manufacturer has ever done this...

The problems I see with DFC are of a different sort, all related to that marketing decisions and communication.

1. Advertisings makes you believe DFC is consuming less power. It is not.
2. Already mentioned clipping. This should never happen and might affect the performance when used as DAC only at the highest volume setting (recommendation from AQ)
3. Filtering. Why the hell do they implement a new filter in every generation, and only one of them? Why not making them switchable? The HW is perfectly capable of supporting all those filters, but they intentionally implement only one and a different one in every product generation. Of course they will sound differently, as the filters do affect sound. So why not offer end user a choice? Many complain DFR is too harsh in treble. Slow roll-off filter would easily solve this, as it does on DFC


----------



## delancyst

Saberlarry said:


> I'm interested in the DFC, tried the DFR a few weeks ago for about half an hour with my iPhone X and was not that impressed, maybe there were several factors:
> - My music library consists of either iTunes purchases, which account for 97-98% of my storage, or 320 kbps mp3/Spotify premium => Maybe testing on lossless files or Tidal would be easier to notice details?
> - I used a custom-made adapter (not Apple's product). As far as I know, the DFR has problems with the thin Apple cable and the DFR manual even tells you to use the big one for the best audio experience.
> 
> Overall I feel like there was little to no difference between the Lightning to 3.5 cable from Apple and the DFR, but keep in mind I am nowhere an audiophile or whatsoever. I just want to have the best portable listening experience on my phone and other devices. My IEMs are Astell&Kern Billie Jean, which I find good enough for my usage. So the question is, technically, if you look at my IEMs specifications + current setup, is the DFC worth it? Or do I have to replace my library with better music files and app? (heard Onkyo is a good one for lossless listening). Thanks!



I've been AB-ing the Apple Lightning USB Camera (aka CCK2) and the USB 3 version with the charging port (aka CCK3) over the past hour with the Cobalt. 
Contrary to Audioquest's claims, I found no discernable difference in sound quality - both adapters work well with my iPhone Xs + Kaisertone app.
Since my iPhone supports wireless charging, it makes sense to use the smaller adapter.


----------



## ElectricL (Aug 6, 2019)

Been lurking on this site for a while trying to learn a thing or two. I'm not an audiophile but I do appreciate good audio, I know it's very subjective what good really is. I have been using the DFR for about two years. I got it used for about 80$ and used it with shure 215, 535 and lately with the 846. With the 535 it was too bright and sometimes the highs would sound very harsh. I listen on my oneplus 7 pro these days and I use viper4android to tweak the sound to my liking. With the 846 the DFR wasn't as harsh and I enjoyed the sound I got out of them.
The 846 I felt didn't as much eq as the 535 to sound the way I wanted and with viper it was easier to make them sound better with less fiddling.

With all that said there is a rather big difference between just using a 3.5mm dongle with the open plus 7 pro and the DFR. To me the red sounds fuller, detailed and so on. So to my untrained ears the DFR sounds better on the op7 pro. I have no idea what onboard audio the oneplus uses.
Yesterday I got the DFC, I ordered it last week after reading all the nice reviews, all of them couldn't be wrong right? After I had already ordered it I read this thread and that review with the in depth testing and I was dissaponted. I wanted something better than my red and it looked like the cobalt wasn't it. Reading this thread has cleared up a few things and for my usage the problems with the cobalt will most likely never cause me trouble. I value portability, only listen on my phone these days.
So, comparing the cobalt with the red, to my ears, the cobalt sounds more relaxed and smooth, the highs are more defined and not as harsh. It does sound a little more spaceous but it might all just be placebo. Here in Sweden it's 2900 Swedish krona, I could get a DAC with more features but it would be many times the size of the DFC.
Considering the earphones i use, senn ie80, shure 215, 535 and 846 would it make more sense getting a DAP?

Edit

I use Tidal hifi for most of my listening.


----------



## delancyst

ElectricL said:


> Been lurking on this site for a while trying to learn a thing or two. I'm not an audiophile but I do appreciate good audio, I know it's very subjective what good really is. I have been using the DFR for about two years. I got it used for about 80$ and used it with shure 215, 535 and lately with the 846. With the 535 it was too bright and sometimes the highs would sound very harsh. I listen on my oneplus 7 pro these days and I use viper4android to tweak the sound to my liking. With the 846 the DFR wasn't as harsh and I enjoyed the sound I got out of them.
> The 846 I felt didn't as much eq as the 535 to sound the way I wanted and with viper it was easier to make them sound better with less fiddling.
> 
> With all that said there is a rather big difference between just using a 3.5mm dongle with the open plus 7 pro and the DFR. To me the red sounds fuller, detailed and so on. So to my untrained ears the DFR sounds better on the op7 pro. I have no idea what onboard audio the oneplus uses.
> ...



I have been comparing the Mojo and the Cobalt for the past few days.
If you care about the user interface of your phone, I think you can consider the Mojo.
For the cost of the Cobalt, the Mojo has better sound quality for a little bit more.


----------



## ElectricL

Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

The Mojo is too big. I will listen to the cobalt a little more today before I decide to keep it.


----------



## a-LeXx

ElectricL said:


> The 846 I felt didn't as much eq as the 535 to sound the way I wanted and with viper it was easier to make them sound better with less fiddling.



Finally someone with a DFR,DFC and an SE846

I have a question to ask  For me, I like everything about  a DFR/SE846 combo, but one thing: it doesn't have a black background, there is always some audible hissing, although it's not really very annoying.

What's your experience with DFC? Less/no hissing? The same? If it is much better, maybe I will also upgrade... However I really do love the sound of DFR and for me it's definitively not too bright, so I might be disappointed...


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> Finally someone with a DFR,DFC and an SE846
> 
> I have a question to ask  For me, I like everything about  a DFR/SE846 combo, but one thing: it doesn't have a black background, there is always some audible hissing, although it's not really very annoying.
> 
> What's your experience with DFC? Less/no hissing? The same? If it is much better, maybe I will also upgrade... However I really do love the sound of DFR and for me it's definitively not too bright, so I might be disappointed...



I also like my DFR but at times it would be too bright but that was happening with the Shure 535, so I guess it's the headphones fault. There is some background hiss/noise with the cobalt. I'll listen more tonight and I'll get back to you. With both the cobalt and the red there is a noticeable improvement over just using the 846 through a usbc to 3.5mm alone. Is it worth 300$? I'm not sure and what if a firmware update could improve the cobalt? To be honest, I was pretty happy with the red, especially after getting viper set up the way I like it.


----------



## joshnor713

I returned the DFR the day after trying it with my SE846. The SE846 is too sensitive for it, not a good pairing. Hiss and not enough volume steps before it's too loud. I really wonder how/if the DFC improves on this front.


----------



## ElectricL

joshnor713 said:


> I returned the DFR the day after trying it with my SE846. The SE846 is too sensitive for it, not a good pairing. Hiss and not enough volume steps before it's too loud. I really wonder how/if the DFC improves on this front.



I use it with the ifi iematch and at first everything worked like advertised, but after a while the sound came out distorted. Have no idea what causes it. Both the 535 and 846 are too sensitive but it's most noticeable in the really quiet parts of the music.

Om the go or when I finally have some time to listen it doesn't bother me, well not that much anyway. 

Note

I'm not an audiophile so my "normal" ears might not be as sensitive as somebody with more experience that knows what to listen for.


----------



## Condocondor

joshnor713 said:


> I returned the DFR the day after trying it with my SE846. The SE846 is too sensitive for it, not a good pairing. Hiss and not enough volume steps before it's too loud. I really wonder how/if the DFC improves on this front.



Here's a link for more info on IE Match from iFi Audio.  It works well I'm told.  

https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/


----------



## ElectricL

Condocondor said:


> Here's a link for more info on IE Match from iFi Audio.  It works well I'm told.
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/



Do you have any idea why the sound gets distorted with the ifi ie match? It's really annoying.


----------



## joshnor713

ElectricL said:


> I use it with the ifi iematch and at first everything worked like advertised, but after a while the sound came out distorted. Have no idea what causes it. Both the 535 and 846 are too sensitive but it's most noticeable in the really quiet parts of the music.
> 
> Om the go or when I finally have some time to listen it doesn't bother me, well not that much anyway.
> 
> ...





Condocondor said:


> Here's a link for more info on IE Match from iFi Audio.  It works well I'm told.
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/



I also have an iFi iemmatch. I've played with it plenty and can tell it messes with the FR (despite what iFi says), especially in the case of the SE846. I'm guessing that the DFR doesn't have a good impedance match with the SE846 (this IEM is a bit of a princess), so throwing in the iemmatch further messes with the signal. Just not a good combo. Good if the sound is decent for you, but you can do a lot better.


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 6, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> What's your experience with DFC? Less/no hissing? The same? If it is much better, maybe I will also upgrade... However I really do love the sound of DFR and for me it's definitively not too bright, so I might be disappointed...





a-LeXx said:


> What's your experience with DFC? Less/no hissing? The same? If it is much better, maybe I will also upgrade... However I really do love the sound of DFR and for me it's definitively not too bright, so I might be disappointed...





ElectricL said:


> Do you have any idea why the sound gets distorted with the ifi ie match? It's really annoying.



IE Match should work well.  If you have an IE MATCH that is distorting then open up a ticket with iFi Audio Support.....  As far as impedance mismatch, the DFR and DFC have output impedance at less than a single ohm if I remember right..


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 6, 2019)

No, IE Match is bad for an SE846. I actually have it. The problem with SE846 - it needs as low impedance as possible, less than 1ohm. With higher impedance, it doesn‘t sound right. And IE Match has too high impedance at mid setting, and still a bit higher impedance than DFR and too high dampening factor at the high setting.

So, it‘s a bad choice.

I don‘t have a problem with volume steps, because I‘m using an ipod touch with a DFR. With ios, you have a 256-steps volume slider, gives you a very fine volume granularity... Shold not be a problem under Android neither if you use UAPP for everything


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> No, IE Match is bad for an SE846. I actually have it. The problem with SE846 - it needs as low impedance as possible, less than 1ohm. With higher impedance, it doesn‘t sound right. And IE Match has too high impedance at mid setting, and still a bit higher impedance than DFR and too high dampening factor at the high setting.
> 
> So, it‘s a bad choice.
> 
> I don‘t have a problem with volume steps, because I‘m using an ipod touch with a DFR. With ios, you have a 256-steps volume slider, gives you a very fine volume granularity... Shold not be a problem under Android neither if you use UAPP for everything




So this is why it sounds distorted and frankly really crappy with the iematch. Any other options to get rid of the hiss?


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 6, 2019)

ElectricL said:


> Do you have any idea why the sound gets distorted with the ifi ie match? It's really annoying.



Simple explanation - too much dampening.
The problem is, IE Match present your DFR an 8ohm load. And then you need to get higher with volume, because of the dampening. DFR has a not very powerfull output stage, and can only maintain the output swing at low current. But with IE match it needs to supply both high current (low impedance load) and comparably high voltage (high dampening). With this it‘s going beyond the power budget and starts clipping the voltage -> you get the distortion...

In other words, DFR sees your IE Match as a very low impedance and very power hungry headphone, and it just doesn‘t have enough juice for that kind of loads...


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> Simple explanation - too much dampening.
> The problem is, IE Match present your DFR an 8ohm load. And then you need to get higher with volume, because of the dampening. DFR has a not very powerfull output stage, and can only maintain the output swing at low current. But with IE match it needs to supply both high current (low impedance load) and comparably high voltage (high dampening). With this it‘s going beyond the power budget and starts clipping the voltage -> you get the distortion...
> 
> In other words, DFR sees your IE Match as a very low impedance and very power hungry headphone, and it just doesn‘t have enough juice for that kind of loads...



Makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.


----------



## Condocondor

Tenashus1 said:


> I spoke too soon. This DFC is just great sounding. The Etymotics sound really, really fine.



Been there.  So glad for you!


----------



## jooonnn

delancyst said:


> I have been comparing the Mojo and the Cobalt for the past few days.
> If you care about the user interface of your phone, I think you can consider the Mojo.
> For the cost of the Cobalt, the Mojo has better sound quality for a little bit more.



Awesome! I used to own a mojo for years, and have been listening to the cobalt all day today to my Stellias.  The cobalt was a neat pickup and “i think” it sounds quite a bit more refined than what i remember my DFR sounding like.  I felt like the DFR was a touch noticably hotter in treble than the mojo.   I just got these Stellias and Ive definitely lusting over a mojo again (miss it), but not trying to impulsively just grab one again if its not a great idea.  

Would you say the sound difference between the cobalt and mojo is readily noticeable for most?  My favorite part of the mojo was its smooth warm and detailed vibe it gave, but the portability was just okay.

Happy tuesday!


----------



## delancyst

jooonnn said:


> Awesome! I used to own a mojo for years, and have been listening to the cobalt all day today to my Stellias.  The cobalt was a neat pickup and “i think” it sounds quite a bit more refined than what i remember my DFR sounding like.  I felt like the DFR was a touch noticably hotter in treble than the mojo.   I just got these Stellias and Ive definitely lusting over a mojo again (miss it), but not trying to impulsively just grab one again if its not a great idea.
> 
> Would you say the sound difference between the cobalt and mojo is readily noticeable for most?  My favorite part of the mojo was its smooth warm and detailed vibe it gave, but the portability was just okay.
> 
> Happy tuesday!



I noticed that the upper mids/lower treble sounds harsher on the Dragonfly Cobalt. Although no sibilance is present, it makes certain tracks 'shoutier' 
and after awhile it's a little bit fatiguing and annoying at times. Otherwise, both their sound signatures are largely similar.
Mojo's treble is slightly more tamed in this respect - I'd say it's more well suited for the kind of genres I listen to (Jazz, electronic, & soundtracks).
No doubt, portability-wise Cobalt is more manageable. You also don't need to manage the heat and battery. 
But in the sound department, Mojo still superior in my opinion, plus it doesn't cost that much more than a Cobalt nowadays.


----------



## Satir

Prefer larger footprint and extra expense of Chord Mojo, but age of smartphone makes thumb drive size amp/dac devices highly appealing. Gushing reviews in retrospect make me smile. A-B devices yourself with your gear. Bombarded with information and reviews 
that seem little more than cloaked ads for manufacturers, we must parse the soft sell for what sounds best for our situation. The Cobalt, while good for what it is, is nonetheless limited in the files it can process at their native resolution. Nothing bad about any file regardless of resolution, if it meets ones needs.


----------



## jooonnn

Got the cobalt yesterday and it is a definite noticeable improvement from the DFR i used to own.  I have a bias, but i think i can agree with delancyst that although the cobalt gets much closer to the mojo, i still think the mojo has a unique smooth gooey sound that i always reach for.  At this point, im tempted to just do a 3 way comparison with the cobalt / mojo / ifi micro idsd black label with my Focal Stellias and my rookie set of ears


----------



## Condocondor (Aug 7, 2019)

jooonnn said:


> At this point, im tempted to just do a 3 way comparison with the cobalt / mojo / ifi micro idsd black label with my Focal Stellias and my rookie set of ears



Oh yeah, make it so Number One.  Be waiting on your results.  Rookie ears be damned.....lol... ; )   I have the *Micro iDSD BL* also and the *COBALT* too of course.


----------



## Soundizer

Will it deliver MQA audio via iPhone in TIDAL HIFI App?

I understand there is currently issue using USBC on the current iPad Pro. Hopefully new Apple iOS 13 will fix the restrictions.


----------



## happyforestgump

Soundizer said:


> Will it deliver MQA audio via iPhone in TIDAL HIFI App?
> 
> I understand there is currently issue using USBC on the current iPad Pro. Hopefully new Apple iOS 13 will fix the restrictions.


Yes!


----------



## schsst

Hi, I would like to use the DFC as a dac/amp for my headphones and as a dac for my home system (PC > DFC > AMP > SPEAKERS), but I'm worried about the clipping measured by Archimago.
Is it a good solution to set the volume at 98% instead of 100%? Or should I buy a DFR?


----------



## jnorris

The DFC may be a great portable DAC/AMP, but there are so many more superior options for your home system at a lower cost.  The Schiit Modi 3 and Modi Multibit, and the SMSL SU-8 to name a few.  If you are planning on yanking the DFC out of your home system for use on the go then your options are more limited.  I would recommend the DF Black for on the go use and a more suitable DAC for your home system.


----------



## Soundizer

IOS beta released. Anyone on it, please let me know if iPad Pro USB-C connection now works with Cobalt using Audioquest supplied USBC adapter cable?

If it does, I will order it straight away. 

I cannot risk Beta on my iPad Pro due to work software.


----------



## schsst

jnorris said:


> The DFC may be a great portable DAC/AMP, but there are so many more superior options for your home system at a lower cost.  The Schiit Modi 3 and Modi Multibit, and the SMSL SU-8 to name a few.  If you are planning on yanking the DFC out of your home system for use on the go then your options are more limited.  I would recommend the DF Black for on the go use and a more suitable DAC for your home system.


my "main system" is smartphone + headphones... on my couch. So I do not need a real "portable" system, but a dac/amp suitable for switching from smartphone + headphonre to amp + speakers; any suggestions?


----------



## Haden2866 (Aug 10, 2019)

jnorris said:


> The DFC may be a great portable DAC/AMP, but there are so many more superior options for your home system at a lower cost.  The Schiit Modi 3 and Modi Multibit, and the SMSL SU-8 to name a few.  If you are planning on yanking the DFC out of your home system for use on the go then your options are more limited.  I would recommend the DF Black for on the go use and a more suitable DAC for your home system.



@schsst Archimago's measurements, if I have understood correctly, highlighted a potential flaw that means the DFC might just be driven to clip (and therefore distort) if you listen to very heavily dynamically compressed music at 100% output. If you are concerned about this then setting output to 98% would appear to be sensible for peace of mind.
For the use case that you clearly stated, DAC / Amp for mobile use combined with DAC / Pre-amp at home, then the Dragonflies would be a good choice for an all-in-one solution, in my opinion, based on the many positive reviews of the whole range especially if, like me, you value a small form factor and no battery for mobile use.
In most real-world listening scenarios, most reviews, whether from professional reviewers, who may or may not be critically biased depending on your worldview, or impressions from experienced hobbyists on here, suggest that the DFC represents a step up in performance over the DFR and the DFB. In most reviews that I have read so far (I haven't heard any of the Dragonflies so can't give an opinion, although I am interested in hearing the DFC), where the reviewer has compared across the range, the DFC tends to be preferred. Whether that apparent improvement is worth the additional cost of the DFC over the others is a matter only for you and your wallet.
I would not, and personally will not, be put off by the measurements but understand that for some people measured performance is everything. Try and listen to one in use as a home hifi DAC / Pre-amp and make up your own mind how it sounds. If you are U.S.-based then Todd the Vinyl Junky (TTVJ) is running a loaner programme, with a thread on here that may be of interest.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Haden2866 said:


> Could you be any more unhelpful to a new Head-fi member? I doubt.
> @schsst Archimago's measurements, if I have understood correctly, highlighted a potential flaw that means the DFC might just be driven to clip (and therefore distort) if you listen to very heavily dynamically compressed music at 100% output. If you are concerned about this then setting output to 98% would appear to be sensible for peace of mind.
> For the use case that you clearly stated, DAC / Amp for mobile use combined with DAC / Pre-amp at home, then the Dragonflies would be a good choice for an all-in-one solution, in my opinion, based on the many positive reviews of the whole range especially if, like me, you value a small form factor and no battery for mobile use.
> In most real-world listening scenarios, most reviews, whether from professional reviewers, who may or may not be critically biased depending on your worldview, or impressions from experienced hobbyists on here, suggest that the DFC represents a step up in performance over the DFR and the DFB. In most reviews that I have read so far (I haven't heard any of the Dragonflies so can't give an opinion, although I am interested in hearing the DFC), where the reviewer has compared across the range, the DFC tends to be preferred. Whether that apparent improvement is worth the additional cost of the DFC over the others is a matter only for you and your wallet.
> I would not, and personally will not, be put off by the measurements but understand that for some people measured performance is everything. Try and listen to one in use as a home hifi DAC / Pre-amp and make up your own mind how it sounds. If you are U.S.-based then Todd the Vinyl Junky (TTVJ) is running a loaner programme, with a thread on here that may be of interest.


I don't think you are being fair here, sorry, not trying to be mean, but you really laid into a member who while you may not have agreed with his input, or felt it would have been helpful to you, from what I read he was genuinely trying to be helpful.


----------



## schsst

I found helpful all your opinions.. I love this forum! (i'm a "new head-fier" since 2013)..


----------



## Haden2866

Sonic Defender said:


> I don't think you are being fair here, sorry, not trying to be mean, but you really laid into a member who while you may not have agreed with his input, or felt it would have been helpful to you, from what I read he was genuinely trying to be helpful.


Agreed, on reflection. Post edited.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Haden2866 said:


> Agreed, on reflection. Post edited.


Cool of you. I do this as well and more often than I care to admit have to go back and correct my posts. We all go over the top at times without meaning to do so, but I personally think it takes a healthy personality to publicly admit it so kudos mate.


----------



## a-LeXx

I wonder, how all that comparisons DFC vs. DFR have been performed. As Archimago‘s measurements show, DFC is a little bit louder than DFR at the same volume setting. This is already enough to be perceived as being better...

Apart from that, it is clear that the filter change is making a big difference between DFC and DFR. It would be a fair comparison to compare DFC to DFR volume matched, and with MQA, which uses own filters, that are the same on DFR and DFC. This would show the real difference if there is any...


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

a-LeXx said:


> I wonder, how all that comparisons DFC vs. DFR have been performed. As Archimago‘s measurements show, DFC is a little bit louder than DFR at the same volume setting. This is already enough to be perceived as being better...
> 
> Apart from that, it is clear that the filter change is making a big difference between DFC and DFR. It would be a fair comparison to compare DFC to DFR volume matched, and with MQA, which uses own filters, that are the same on DFR and DFC. This would show the real difference if there is any...



There is a real difference. Many in here have stated that, including me. You can choose to believe whatever you want.


----------



## a-LeXx

Well, that‘s the thing, I‘m absolutely sure there is a difference, the technical difference in the filter alone is relatively huge. The question is - is there a difference beyond the filter? And MQA can help to answer this question.


----------



## Deftone

a-LeXx said:


> Well, that‘s the thing, I‘m absolutely sure there is a difference, the technical difference in the filter alone is relatively huge. The question is - is there a difference beyond the filter? And MQA can help to answer this question.



Dac differences are subtle you should be aware of that when going in to make a purchase, some members will have you believe it transformed a headphone where I'm more in the camp where it can help your headphone get that last few % in refinement, especially the treble.


----------



## jnorris

Haden2866 said:


> @schsst Archimago's measurements, if I have understood correctly, highlighted a potential flaw that means the DFC might just be driven to clip (and therefore distort) if you listen to very heavily dynamically compressed music at 100% output. If you are concerned about this then setting output to 98% would appear to be sensible for peace of mind.
> For the use case that you clearly stated, DAC / Amp for mobile use combined with DAC / Pre-amp at home, then the Dragonflies would be a good choice for an all-in-one solution, in my opinion, based on the many positive reviews of the whole range especially if, like me, you value a small form factor and no battery for mobile use.
> In most real-world listening scenarios, most reviews, whether from professional reviewers, who may or may not be critically biased depending on your worldview, or impressions from experienced hobbyists on here, suggest that the DFC represents a step up in performance over the DFR and the DFB. In most reviews that I have read so far (I haven't heard any of the Dragonflies so can't give an opinion, although I am interested in hearing the DFC), where the reviewer has compared across the range, the DFC tends to be preferred. Whether that apparent improvement is worth the additional cost of the DFC over the others is a matter only for you and your wallet.
> I would not, and personally will not, be put off by the measurements but understand that for some people measured performance is everything. Try and listen to one in use as a home hifi DAC / Pre-amp and make up your own mind how it sounds. If you are U.S.-based then Todd the Vinyl Junky (TTVJ) is running a loaner programme, with a thread on here that may be of interest.




1) I never mentioned Archimago's measurements, although they are mildly disturbing. 

2) A well-designed DAC incorporating a well-designed line output stage will trounce any device that uses a headphone amp to drive the inputs of a preamp or speaker amp. 

3) In real-world scenarios, the sonic advantages of the Cobalt over the Black or Red will be lost when used out and about in a bus, car, plane, or just walking.  Utter waste of money - not to mention carrying a $300 device around with you brings it's own risks.  

4) The OP has stated that his main system is his phone through the DAC while on the couch.  In that case, the Schiit Modi 3 for the home system and the Dragonfly Red for the phone is a better solution at the same price as the Cobalt.  I own the Red - it's a good DAC, just not as good as a non-portable one.  As stated elsewhere in this forum, DAC differences are subtle and I take with a grain of salt the "night-and-day" and "Life-Changing" reviews.  If I drop $300 on a poorly implemented device that wiggles I'd try to be overwhelmed by upgrade, also.


----------



## tracyca

I am just loving the Cobalt with my Solaris. Not having to worry about charging the unit and it’s tiny form factor is a extra plus on top of really enjoying the sound it produces.


----------



## Tenashus1

tracyca said:


> I am just loving the Cobalt with my Solaris. Not having to worry about charging the unit and it’s tiny form factor is a extra plus on top of really enjoying the sound it produces.



It's a keeper alright. Happy to have it.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Tenashus1 said:


> It's a keeper alright. Happy to have it.



Me too. I don’t get all the hate, especially from those that haven’t even tried it yet.


----------



## Deftone

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Me too. I don’t get all the hate, especially from those that haven’t even tried it yet.



It's because it's more expensive.


----------



## Tenashus1 (Aug 10, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Me too. I don’t get all the hate, especially from those that haven’t even tried it yet.


It's gotta be the price unfortunately. People can return it if they don't like it, but the price for some people blows their socks off. Thousand dollar headphones do the same thing for me.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Tenashus1 said:


> It's gotta be the price unfortunately. People can return it if they don't like it, but the price for some people blows their socks off. Thousand dollar headphones do the same thing for me.



In the realm of audiophilia, it’s not expensive at all. The Mojo still costs more, the Hugo 2 is $2600, the Woo wa11 is $1400, the Dacportable is $350 and can’t render MQA, etc. 

But at the end of the day, if you can’t afford it, don’t buy it. I can’t afford the Susvara but I still say it sounds awesome. I can’t even afford an amp powerful enough to drive the Susvara.


----------



## BabetakCZE

Today I received my DragonFly Cobalt and I am a little bit disappointed. 

The sound of DFC is for me too energetic and bright up top. I do not recommend DFC to people who are sensitive to energetic and bright sound. 

Chord Mojo in comparison is of course bigger and pricier but its more relaxed sounding and I prefer it to DFC.


----------



## Bitsir

BabetakCZE said:


> Today I received my DragonFly Cobalt and I am a little bit disappointed.
> 
> The sound of DFC is for me too energetic and bright up top. I do not recommend DFC to people who are sensitive to energetic and bright sound.
> 
> Chord Mojo in comparison is of course bigger and pricier but its more relaxed sounding and I prefer it to DFC.



I also have the Cobalt and Mojo myself.

I definitely prefer the Cobalt, it has got a more dimensional and open sound even though it suffers a defeat in absolute texture detail. If the Cobalt is a 90Hz monitor, the Mojo is 120Hz.

Perhaps you find the Cobalt too bright because your headphones/earphones are bright to start off with? 

If that is the case then I can see why you would find the Mojo relaxing by comparison.


----------



## BabetakCZE

I tested Cobalt with Audioquest Nightowl and Creative Aurvana SE. I can hear the Cobalt brightness on both.
No such problems on Mojo and Arcam rHead + Schiit Modi 3.
I definitely agree that Cobalt sounds more open compared to Mojo but overall for me Mojo is the better sounding device.


----------



## Condocondor

BabetakCZE said:


> Today I received my DragonFly Cobalt and I am a little bit disappointed.



Give it 100hrs to break in. It's early.  The soundstage will open up and the treble will feel a little less congested and smooth out a tad. It's never going to sound like your Mojo or my Micro iDSD BL.  But considering the form factor it's amazing.  Perhaps you can EQ a little bit...?


----------



## joshnor713

Condocondor said:


> Give it 100hrs to break in. It's early.  The soundstage will open up and the treble will feel a little less congested and smooth out a tad. It's never going to sound like your Mojo or my Micro iDSD BL.  But considering the form factor it's amazing.  Perhaps you can EQ a little bit...?



A digital component breaks-in? I can understand mental break-in, but this would be quite the stretch.


----------



## joesuburb

joshnor713 said:


> A digital component breaks-in? I can understand mental break-in, but this would be quite the stretch.


Its best to ignore these posts.  Too much religion.  Honestly, I can't hear the difference between most DACs, let alone break-in of electronics.  No good can come from engaging.


----------



## PhenixS1970

I have Cobalt and Mojo.  I like C most with my Shure se846, which us known for its ‘darker’ sound and M with my Andromeda wich is slightly brighter.  Not looking for more at the moment (except a refill wodka/organge as I write poolside holiday in S-France, lol).


----------



## Devodonaldson

BabetakCZE said:


> Today I received my DragonFly Cobalt and I am a little bit disappointed.
> 
> The sound of DFC is for me too energetic and bright up top. I do not recommend DFC to people who are sensitive to energetic and bright sound.
> 
> Chord Mojo in comparison is of course bigger and pricier but its more relaxed sounding and I prefer it to DFC.


Have a mojo and had a red til it broke. Found the red a little bright. The highs were interesting to hear with instruments because it seemed more detailed, but mojo is much better overall. Also use XDSD, and was contemplating DFC, so glad I'm not really missing out


----------



## MysticLeviathan

I wouldn't call myself an audiophile at all, but I do appreciate better sound.  I own a DFR and a DFC and they both unquestionably sound better with my 1More Quads than just having them in the headphone jack.  I'm trying to figure out the difference between the two.  So far, the DFC sounds fuller and louder and clearer, however the soundstage seems narrower?  The DFR seems like it has a wider soundstage than the DFC, but it's a weird soundstage where it sounds more like a U than anything.  It sounds like stuff behind other stuff rather than across where the DFC sounds mostly on the same level horizontally, but with that it feels like the DFR is wider.  Or am I mistaken?  I'm not sure.  Will that change with burn in?


----------



## James1776

Really dumb question...does the cobalt work with a chromebook?


----------



## Condocondor

MysticLeviathan said:


> The DFR seems like it has a wider soundstage than the DFC, but it's a weird soundstage where it sounds more like a U than anything. It sounds like stuff behind other stuff rather than across where the DFC sounds mostly on the same level horizontally, but with that it feels like the DFR is wider. Or am I mistaken? I'm not sure. Will that change with burn in?



I think it will change a bit with burn in.  Only question is when is that?  100hrs?  200hrs?  Yes.


----------



## Deftone

Condocondor said:


> I think it will change a bit with burn in.  Only question is when is that?  100hrs?  200hrs?  Yes.



400 hours for the ESS9038


----------



## Deftone

MysticLeviathan said:


> I wouldn't call myself an audiophile at all, but I do appreciate better sound.  I own a DFR and a DFC and they both unquestionably sound better with my 1More Quads than just having them in the headphone jack.  I'm trying to figure out the difference between the two.  So far, the DFC sounds fuller and louder and clearer, however the soundstage seems narrower?  The DFR seems like it has a wider soundstage than the DFC, but it's a weird soundstage where it sounds more like a U than anything.  It sounds like stuff behind other stuff rather than across where the DFC sounds mostly on the same level horizontally, but with that it feels like the DFR is wider.  Or am I mistaken?  I'm not sure.  Will that change with burn in?



You mean youre hearing depth instead of flat sound?


----------



## soufiaj

Condocondor said:


> I think it will change a bit with burn in.  Only question is when is that?  100hrs?  200hrs?  Yes.



Please excuse my dumb question (and probably out of topic: 
Does it considered “burn in” if I plug-in the DFC/DFR on my turned-on PC without playing any sound? There is light on the LED and it is a very little bit tad temperature on it


----------



## Deftone

soufiaj said:


> Please excuse my dumb question (and probably out of topic:
> Does it considered “burn in” if I plug-in the DFC/DFR on my turned-on PC without playing any sound? There is light on the LED and it is a very little bit tad temperature on it



No you would need to be sending some kind of signal for it to process if you believe in burn in, that led is just indicating what the pc samplerate it set to.


----------



## Condocondor

Deftone said:


> 400 hours for the ESS9038



OMG!  I've got a lot to look forward to then.  Where did you get that figure?


----------



## Deftone

Condocondor said:


> OMG!  I've got a lot to look forward to then.  Where did you get that figure?



Made it up just now.


----------



## joesuburb

Deftone said:


> Made it up just now.


LOL


----------



## Tenashus1 (Aug 18, 2019)

Well, for what it's worth, I finally got a hold of a wiggle-less DFC for $20 off no less. My present DFC was wiggling from both ends. I saw $20 off a new one and could still return this one, so I gave it a shot. Sure enough, victory!


----------



## stereonerd

Anyone using the DFC with RHA CL2s? I’ve read the cobalt is a little shouty in the highs , that would be a bad match for CL2 Tuning which is keep me debating on DFC or Mojo - MQA would be nice though


----------



## Deftone

stereonerd said:


> Anyone using the DFC with RHA CL2s? I’ve read the cobalt is a little shouty in the highs , that would be a bad match for CL2 Tuning which is keep me debating on DFC or Mojo - MQA would be nice though



Cobalt is actually recessed in the upper mid low high so it might work well, also even though its a little bit brighter in the upper highs its not harsh.


----------



## stereonerd

Deftone said:


> Cobalt is actually recessed in the upper mid low high so it might work well, also even though its a little bit brighter in the upper highs its not harsh.



Recessed 2k-4K? Brighter up top I’m not too concerned about, unless it’s fatiguing - what’s your take?


----------



## 118900

delancyst said:


> I've been AB-ing the Apple Lightning USB Camera (aka CCK2) and the USB 3 version with the charging port (aka CCK3) over the past hour with the Cobalt.
> Contrary to Audioquest's claims, I found no discernable difference in sound quality - both adapters work well with my iPhone Xs + Kaisertone app.
> Since my iPhone supports wireless charging, it makes sense to use the smaller adapter.


I think this is in reference to an earlier iOS (not sure if 10 or 11) where there was a problem outputting signal to off board DACs (in general, including Chords, Schiit, etc). At the time I remember hearing clicks and dropouts on the CCK2 that did not present themselves on the CCK3. The issue was eventually fixed with an update as the overall problem with off board DACs died off and I stopped hearing the clicks with the CCK2. I still have both CCK2 and CCK3 although I never use the 3 ever since the problem was resolved.


----------



## 118900

Gus141 said:


> Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html


The reviewer himself states that another DFC did NOT have this problem. Isn’t it just possible that he had a dud DFC which was not indicative? Just a thought


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> The reviewer himself states that another DFC did NOT have this problem. Isn’t it just possible that he had a dud DFC which was not indicative? Just a thought



What another DFC? He didn't get another DFC, all the problems covered in that review are still there!


----------



## 118900 (Aug 19, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> What another DFC? He didn't get another DFC, all the problems covered in that review are still there!





juansan said:


> The reviewer himself states that another DFC did NOT have this problem. Isn’t it just possible that he had a dud DFC which was not indicative? Just a thought


He says it himself in the same review near the end. Maybe I misunderstood but that is how it looks to me. Like I said just a thought


----------



## 118900

ElectricL said:


> I also like my DFR but at times it would be too bright but that was happening with the Shure 535, so I guess it's the headphones fault. There is some background hiss/noise with the cobalt. I'll listen more tonight and I'll get back to you. With both the cobalt and the red there is a noticeable improvement over just using the 846 through a usbc to 3.5mm alone. Is it worth 300$? I'm not sure and what if a firmware update could improve the cobalt? To be honest, I was pretty happy with the red, especially after getting viper set up the way I like it.


heya ElectricL did you manage to check the background hiss on the DFC 846 combo? Im interested in the same combo for my travel needs.


----------



## wwyjoe (Aug 19, 2019)

Sorry if this is a noob question, but can I play Tidal with Tidal's own native app installed on the upcoming Samung Note 10+ connected to the Cobalt ? Or do I need to install app such as UAPP to play Tidal?


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 19, 2019)

juansan said:


> He says it himself in the same review near the end. Maybe I misunderstood but that is how it looks to me. Like I said just a thought


No, that‘s not it. He is just saying that other people apparently did not see this one particular problem. It‘s very unlikely though, because there is no analog gain control there, it‘s all digital, so the manufacturing variations should not affect this. Maybe they changed the FW though, totally possible. Anyway, this kind of issues should be easy to address with a FW update, if AQ decides to do so...

Moreover, it was just one aspect, the clipping. Apart from that, DFC objectively has much worse measurements compared to DFR...


----------



## 118900 (Aug 19, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> No, that‘s not it. He is just saying that other people apparently did not see this one particular problem. It‘s very unlikely though, because there is no analog gain control there, it‘s all digital, so the manufacturing variations should not affect this.
> 
> Moreover, it was just one aspect, the clipping. Apart from that, DFC objectively has much worse measurements compared to DFR...


Alex, i’m very sorry but the wording speaks for itself and is not really open to interpretation. He clearly states (and I quote): “an earlier serial number cobalt did not have this issue (reported as 2.16 Vrms)”. He makes specific reference to an earlier serial number product which means he is being quite definite, not generically talking about “other people”. Again, I’m sorry but you can’t really take one part of what he says as the truth and then another part as unfounded or inaccurate.

With regards to this particular review all
I suggest is that as he already picked up on one defect maybe the cobalt he tested was faulty and not indicative overall.

In general I often find that just as there are many reviewers who heap praise on a product that is not deserving so as not to stand out from the crowd, there are also some  reviewers that love the notoriety of being the ones that go against the grain and poo-poo those products that are generally regarded as merit worthy.

I am NOT saying that this is the case here as measurements appear perfectly valid, however if he did have these doubts I think he was remiss to have not investigated further in order to verify whether this was indeed the case. 

Nevertheless the real test is the personal audition, that is my view anyway.


----------



## a-LeXx

It wasn't him, somebody reported that earlier... Might have been an earlier pre-release sample...


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> It wasn't him, somebody reported that earlier... Might have been an earlier pre-release sample...


Ok Alex.


----------



## ProfY

juansan said:


> Ok Alex.


Returning to an earlier issue in the thread, my dragonfly cobalt has now failed completely due to the USB component loosening from the housing to the point where it retracts into the housing rather than engaging. I ordered mine very early post release, it has had moderate use but no rough handling. I think this will indicate a serious manufacturing flaw and would advise against buying this product until a formal response from audioquest is forthcoming. In Australia the local distributor has warranty liability.


----------



## Tenashus1

ProfY said:


> Returning to an earlier issue in the thread, my dragonfly cobalt has now failed completely due to the USB component loosening from the housing to the point where it retracts into the housing rather than engaging. I ordered mine very early post release, it has had moderate use but no rough handling. I think this will indicate a serious manufacturing flaw and would advise against buying this product until a formal response from audioquest is forthcoming. In Australia the local distributor has warranty liability.


Ouch! Sorry to hear that.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

ProfY said:


> Returning to an earlier issue in the thread, my dragonfly cobalt has now failed completely due to the USB component loosening from the housing to the point where it retracts into the housing rather than engaging. I ordered mine very early post release, it has had moderate use but no rough handling. I think this will indicate a serious manufacturing flaw and would advise against buying this product until a formal response from audioquest is forthcoming. In Australia the local distributor has warranty liability.



Sorry to hear that, You get what you paid for... wait, I take that back.


----------



## 118900

ProfY said:


> Returning to an earlier issue in the thread, my dragonfly cobalt has now failed completely due to the USB component loosening from the housing to the point where it retracts into the housing rather than engaging. I ordered mine very early post release, it has had moderate use but no rough handling. I think this will indicate a serious manufacturing flaw and would advise against buying this product until a formal response from audioquest is forthcoming. In Australia the local distributor has warranty liability.


I sincerely hope and trust that Audioquest will respect their warranty. It would be suicide if they didn’t, especially with initial production runs always being more liable to problems


----------



## 118900 (Aug 20, 2019)

Picked up my DFC this morning and have already run some quick A/B comparisons against the DFR, both running from iPhone XR through CCK2 into B&W P7s. Initial impressions:  the low end seems less boomy and more controlled on the cobalt which also reaches slightly lower down so overall a noticeable improvement. Cannot assess the mid frequencies properly given the time constraints and this will need more listening later this evening. The highs are noticeably clearer, I think the window cleaning analogy used by one reviewer is very apt, the DFR opens a window into the sound but the DFC cleans it better. Maybe saying the DFC removes all the glass from the window and lets you “see” with absolutely no distortion is an exaggeration but the general idea is there as the DFC definitely sounds a little clearer. I have also noted that 3D imaging has improved with the soundstage having become more three dimensional (ie deeper) with the DFC.

Now these are noticeable differences with a direct A/B comparison of both dragonflies and as is usually the case when specifically listening out for differences in a comparison you tend to notice them more than you would ordinarily. Personally some may not want to upgrade if they already have a DFR but I would definitely say that the sonic differences are there and, to my mind, worth the extra cost, especially if you don’t have either of the two and are considering being a first time buyer and evaluating an difference of $100 or equivalent. Whether the same is the case to someone that already has a DFR and would have to pay the full price for a new product is subjective. Either way I would strongly recommend anyone to go for an A/B comparison before buying.

Regarding the construction the USB connection seems very solid, on par with my DFR however the headphone socket seems ever so slightly loose. Nothing worrisome but given previous comments I thought it worth my while to note this.

Overall quite pleased and looking forward to some more serious listening later today with much better headphones.


----------



## Muataz

Hi everyone, I need help to chose between xDSD and DFC.

I can get both for the same price. previously I sold my mojo and hoped mojo 2 will come soon but nothing until now


----------



## 118900

Muataz said:


> Hi everyone, I need help to chose between xDSD and DFC.
> 
> I can get both for the same price. previously I sold my mojo and hoped mojo 2 will come soon but nothing until now


Was the Mojo not working?


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> Picked up my DFC this morning and have already run some quick A/B comparisons against the DFR, both running from iPhone XR through CCK2 into B&W P7s. Initial impressions:  the low end seems less boomy and more controlled on the cobalt which also reaches slightly lower down so overall a noticeable improvement. Cannot assess the mid frequencies properly given the time constraints and this will need more listening later this evening. The highs are noticeably clearer, I think the window cleaning analogy used by one reviewer is very apt, the DFR opens a window into the sound but the DFC cleans it better. Maybe saying the DFC removes all the glass from the window and lets you “see” with absolutely no distortion is an exaggeration but the general idea is there as the DFC definitely sounds a little clearer. I have also noted that 3D imaging has improved with the soundstage having become more three dimensional (ie deeper) with the DFC.
> 
> Now these are noticeable differences with a direct A/B comparison of both dragonflies and as is usually the case when specifically listening out for differences in a comparison you tend to notice them more than you would ordinarily. Personally some may not want to upgrade if they already have a DFR but I would definitely say that the sonic differences are there and, to my mind, worth the extra cost, especially if you don’t have either of the two and are considering being a first time buyer and evaluating an difference of $100 or equivalent. Whether the same is the case to someone that already has a DFR and would have to pay the full price for a new product is subjective. Either way I would strongly recommend anyone to go for an A/B comparison before buying.
> 
> ...



How did you do the direct A/B comparison? Did you account for the fact that DFC is playing louder than DFR at the same volume setting, so that everything would sound clearer with a better soundstage if you do not compensate for the difference in volume, because it's how our brains perceive the higher volume?


----------



## Muataz

juansan said:


> Was the Mojo not working?


Was working perfectly, I had it from 2016 March


----------



## ElectricL

juansan said:


> heya ElectricL did you manage to check the background hiss on the DFC 846 combo? Im interested in the same combo for my travel needs.


Hi

Like I said earlier, I'm no audiophile. Listening to Tidal on my phone (op7 pro) there is an audible hiss on some songs and in the very quiet parts in the music you can here some hiss. It's not much and nothing that bothers me. Listening toTidal on the PC it's much cleaner and the hiss is even lower, you can barely hear it. I was very impressed with the sound when streaming mqa. The sound was full with nice separation and crisp highs. No eq whatsoever.

The Cobalt seems to put out a more precise sound, I feel there is better definition to the sound like a picture that is more in focus on the Cobalt and a picture that is slightly off but still sharp  on the Red, if that makes sense. 

I have a weird issue though. When I first plug in the Cobalt to my phone through the dragonfly USB adapter the volume is so low, I have to turn it all the way up to hear anything. I reboot the phone and everything is back to normal. At first I thought it might be an issue with Android but the DFR doesn't do this. Even after a reboot if I unplug the Cobalt and plug it back in this happens. Very frustrating and annoying. Anybody with a similar issue?


----------



## 118900 (Aug 20, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> How did you do the direct A/B comparison? Did you account for the fact that DFC is playing louder than DFR at the same volume setting, so that everything would sound clearer with a better soundstage if you do not compensate for the difference in volume, because it's how our brains perceive the higher volume?


I have both and there is no difference in the volume whatsoever which leads me to think even more that the one tested was a dud. Furthermore even when lowering the volume on the DFC by one “notch” and listening carefully the improvements are still there to be heard


----------



## 118900

ElectricL said:


> Hi
> 
> Like I said earlier, I'm no audiophile. Listening to Tidal on my phone (op7 pro) there is an audible hiss on some songs and in the very quiet parts in the music you can here some hiss. It's not much and nothing that bothers me. Listening toTidal on the PC it's much cleaner and the hiss is even lower, you can barely hear it. I was very impressed with the sound when streaming mqa. The sound was full with nice separation and crisp highs. No eq whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. Unfortunately I’m using an iPhone so I don’t get the issue you describe, I wish I could help.


----------



## 118900

Muataz said:


> Was working perfectly, I had it from 2016 March


But why did u ditch it then? To be honest I would have just kept it rather than “downgrade” unless it was to increase portability in which case your best bet is the dragonfly as there is little difference between the mojo and the ifi in terms of form factor


----------



## ElectricL

juansan said:


> I have both and there is no difference in the volume whatsoever which leads me to think even more that the one tested was a dud. Furthermore even when lowering the volume on the DFC by one “notch” and listening carefully the improvements are still there to be heard



My Cobalt behaves the same, no volume differences from the Red at all.


----------



## Muataz

juansan said:


> But why did u ditch it then? To be honest I would have just kept it rather than “downgrade” unless it was to increase portability in which case your best bet is the dragonfly as there is little difference between the mojo and the ifi in terms of form factor


My job changed and I did not had time for it and I already had plane to upgrade. but my budget get shrink back to sub 300$.
Now I have only Headamp Gilmore Lite mk2 with Mrspeaker Aeon closed. I used my laptop as source but it sound unbelievably bad.


----------



## 118900

Muataz said:


> My job changed and I did not had time for it and I already had plane to upgrade. but my budget get shrink back to sub 300$.
> Now I have only Headamp Gilmore Lite mk2 with Mrspeaker Aeon closed. I used my laptop as source but it sound unbelievably bad.


I’m very sorry to hear that


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> I have both and there is no difference in the volume whatsoever which leads me to think even more that the one tested was a dud. Furthermore even when lowering the volume on the DFC by one “notch” and listening carefully the improvements are still there to be heard



You've measured it at a specific frequency  (e.g. 1kHz ) with some equipment? If I remember, the difference was less than 0.5dB, which is unlikely to be directly heard even in a direct A/B testing...


----------



## 118900 (Aug 20, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> You've measured it at a specific frequency  (e.g. 1kHz ) with some equipment? If I remember, the difference was less than 0.5dB, which is unlikely to be directly heard even in a direct A/B testing...


So it’s supposed to sound better because it’s louder however the difference in volume is inaudible? Even though (as I already stated) lowering the volume on the DFC compared to the DFR the improvements can still be clearly heard? Can you tell us how you measured the DFC and DFR and how you compared them? Objective and subjective impressions?


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> So it’s supposed to sound better because it’s louder however the difference in volume is inaudible?



Sure. You don't always perceive a direct difference, but on a subconscious level you do.

Ok, anyway, all the best with your DFC. Although it's objectively speaking worse than DFR, no one is saying it sounds worse. It's just surprising that it does measure badly. There is plenty of HiFi stuff that measures much worse, e.g. tubes, but sounds pleasing. Some manufacturers recognized that and offer you an option, e.g. iFi, where they have switsches for measure vs. listen operation mode, with 'listen' obviously producing objectively worse results that some find more pleasing to the ear...


----------



## 118900 (Aug 20, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Sure. You don't always perceive a direct difference, but on a subconscious level you do.
> 
> Ok, anyway, all the best with your DFC. Although it's objectively speaking worse than DFR, no one is saying it sounds worse. It's just surprising that it does measure badly. There is plenty of HiFi stuff that measures much worse, e.g. tubes, but sounds pleasing. Some manufacturers recognized that and offer you an option, e.g. iFi, where they have switsches for measure vs. listen operation mode, with 'listen' obviously producing objectively worse results that some find more pleasing to the ear...


I see that you have skipped my question completely. Have you actually compared the two yourself or even heard the DFC?

Please don’t mention “objectivity” when you are basing all of your arguments on something you have never measured or even heard yourself. The reviewer who made the measurements himself admitted in the very same article that another DFC had measurements that were within the manufacturer specifications and completely failed to follow up on this very strong inconsistency by testing another DFC to clear up all doubts and you are defending his very questionable results without having any objective knowledge about the matter whatsoever unless you are privy to information which is unknown to us and not included in the original article, something I very much doubt.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

juansan said:


> I see that you have skipped my question completely. Have you actually compared the two yourself or even heard the DFC?
> 
> Please don’t mention “objectivity” when you are basing all of your arguments on something you have never measured or even heard yourself. The reviewer who made the measurements himself admitted in the very same article that another DFC had measurements that were within the manufacturer specifications and completely failed to follow up on this very strong inconsistency by testing another DFC to clear up all doubts and you are defending his very questionable results without having any objective knowledge about the matter whatsoever unless you are privy to information which is unknown to us and not included in the original article, something I very much doubt.



+1


----------



## 118900

Hifiearspeakers said:


> +1


If he says anything else on the matter I will assume he is trolling and block him


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> I see that you have skipped my question completely. Have you actually compared the two yourself or even heard the DFC?
> 
> Please don’t mention “objectivity” when you are basing all of your arguments on something you have never measured or even heard yourself. The reviewer who made the measurements himself admitted in the very same article that another DFC had measurements that were within the manufacturer specifications and completely failed to follow up on this very strong inconsistency by testing another DFC to clear up all doubts and you are defending his very questionable results without having any objective knowledge about the matter whatsoever unless you are privy to information which is unknown to us and not included in the original article, something I very much doubt.



The reviewer just said that he heard of someone who said he measured a different output level. That's all. This doesn't change anything about other measurements, like THD and so on. And the final verdict of the reviewer (Archimago) on DFC is this (posted on 15th of August):

*******************************************************
I really wonder what AudioQuest was thinking releasing the Cobalt like this. Whether it's me, or Mans, or Amir, or many others who care about objective performance, surely at some point comparisons will be made... And it would not be pretty.

One would have thought that the fact the Red was an improvement over the Black objectively, they would have at least _tried_ to do better with the extra $100 and in their advertising appealed to both subjective and objective-leaning folks. Now we're just left with the uncomfortable question "What were they thinking?", "How in the world was this thing 'voiced'?!", and most important for them as a business _"Who's supposed to be buying this?!"
*******************************************************
_
I don't have a DFC as of now, but I'm actually thinking of buying one. I need something with a blacker background than DFR for my SE846s... That's why I asked multiple times on this thread whether or not DFC has fixed hissing issue of DFR with low impedance and high sensitivity IEMs, but I haven't yet heard a clear answer as of now... It's as simple as this, if it has black or almost black background with SE846, I will get me one in a heartbeat... I mean, all my smartphones and iDevices have black background with SE846, but sound nowhere as good as DFR does. 

So, to make my point clear: I'm an engineer who values good measurements, but not above everything. Indeed, I was a bit disappointed seeing DFC measures worse than DFR. But this is not a  complete deal breaker for me, as most people seem to agree at least it doesn't sound worse than DFR. So, the factor meaning the most for me now is - how high or low is the background noise with that? 

In my despair to get rid of background noise I even downgraded to Fiio BTR3 when using my SE846, even though I don't need Bluetooth at all. But at least it has a nice AKM DAC with embedded HP-amplifier that is really black... I would much prefer going back to a wired small battery-less DAC/amp. And DFC is still on my shortlist, until someone can post a definitive answer whether or not it hisses with SE846...


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> The reviewer just said that he heard of someone who said he measured a different output level. That's all. This doesn't change anything about other measurements, like THD and so on. And the final verdict of the reviewer (Archimago) on DFC is this (posted on 15th of August):
> 
> *******************************************************
> I really wonder what AudioQuest was thinking releasing the Cobalt like this. Whether it's me, or Mans, or Amir, or many others who care about objective performance, surely at some point comparisons will be made... And it would not be pretty.
> ...


I will not comment further on his review as I think enough has been said. 

 With regards to your other comment I am also very curious as to how the DFC manages with the 846s as I am thinking of upgrading to a final travel set up of DFC/846.


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> The reviewer just said that he heard of someone who said he measured a different output level. That's all. This doesn't change anything about other measurements, like THD and so on. And the final verdict of the reviewer (Archimago) on DFC is this (posted on 15th of August):
> 
> *******************************************************
> I really wonder what AudioQuest was thinking releasing the Cobalt like this. Whether it's me, or Mans, or Amir, or many others who care about objective performance, surely at some point comparisons will be made... And it would not be pretty.
> ...




It's not black with my 846, there is hiss and it's less than the Red but not by much. This is on my phone...on my PC it's much better.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

The Cobalt and Red might have too much amplification power for the 846. Isn’t the cause of most hiss/audible background noise? If I tried to feed 2 watts into 30 ohms, for example, I’d expect to hear a lot of hiss. Maybe the less powerful, Black, would be a better match for you.


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> With regards to your other comment I am also very curious as to how the DFC manages with the 846s as I am thinking of upgrading to a final travel set up of DFC/846.



The issue with SE846 is - they hiss on everything. Even on Hugo. And they absolutely need a source with <1Ohm output impedance to not sound too warm even with a modded filter. The list of possible candidates to drive them on a go is very limited... They do sound ok on iDevices. But I don't like the sound of Cirrus DACs, it's too cold/sharp to my ears, I much more prefer the sound signature of DFR... Ok, getting off-topic...


----------



## a-LeXx

ElectricL said:


> It's not black with my 846, there is hiss and it's less than the Red but not by much. This is on my phone...on my PC it's much better.


Thanks! Then I'll wait for another iteration, maybe Dragonfly Purple will solve the problem for good...


----------



## a-LeXx

Hifiearspeakers said:


> The Cobalt and Red might have too much amplification power for the 846. Isn’t the cause of most hiss/audible background noise? If I tried to feed 2 watts into 30 ohms, for example, I’d expect to hear a lot of hiss. Maybe the less powerful, Black, would be a better match for you.



No it isn't too powerful. The problem is with gain because they wanted to squeeze out 2.1V of max. output level. So the output stage is always running at max. gain it's capable of. Output power is a different thing from output level.


----------



## megabigeye

Hey @a-LeXx, it's probably not what you want to hear, but if your SE846 hiss with every source other than your iPhone, it's probably the earphones that are faulty and not the sources.  I don't mean that your IEMs are broken, but that such low impedance is an inherently bad design because it so limits what other equipment can be used.

It seems akin to wanting a really fast car, so you buy a race car and then wonder what roads you can legally drive it on.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 20, 2019)

megabigeye said:


> Hey @a-LeXx, it's probably not what you want to hear, but if your SE846 hiss with every source other than your iPhone, it's probably the earphones that are faulty and not the sources.  I don't mean that your IEMs are broken, but that such low impedance is an inherently bad design because it so limits what other equipment can be used.
> 
> It seems akin to wanting a really fast car, so you buy a race car and then wonder what roads you can legally drive it on.



No, not like that, of course there are sources they don't hiss on, as I said, it doesn't do this on any smartphone or iDevice I use, also it doesn't on AKM-based high-integrated DAC/amps like BTR3...
As you can read just few posts above, other people also say SE846 hisses on both DFR and DFC.

It does however hiss on most amps that are considered audiophile, unfortunately. And a headphone cannot hiss by itself, it's not an active component that can generate any current flow, it can only reproduce whatever the source is sending into it. SE846 is probably just the most sensitive and low-impedance IEM out there...


----------



## ElectricL

What DAC do you guys recommend for the 846? Just out of curiosity.


----------



## a-LeXx

Fiio BTR3 or Earstudio ES100.  No hiss, pretty nice SQ. Best options I found so far...


----------



## 118900

ElectricL said:


> What DAC do you guys recommend for the 846? Just out of curiosity.


How much are you willing to spend and how “portable” does it need to be?


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> Fiio BTR3 or Earstudio ES100.  No hiss, pretty nice SQ. Best options I found so far...



Listening through Tidal on USB Audio player pro and MQA you get a black background. Funny this app is better than tidals own. I've been missing out. The sound is really great without eq. Maybe I've gotten used to viper4android and it's ruined my appreciation for better sound...


----------



## ElectricL

juansan said:


> How much are you willing to spend and how “portable” does it need to be?



Right now, nothing as I'm happy with the Cobalt and 846. Just wondering for future upgrades. Let's say somewhere around the 700$ mark.


----------



## a-LeXx

ElectricL said:


> Listening through Tidal on USB Audio player pro and MQA you get a black background. Funny this app is better than tidals own. I've been missing out. The sound is really great without eq. Maybe I've gotten used to viper4android and it's ruined my appreciation for better sound...



Probably in this case UAPP is indeed changing the gain level instead of changing the digital volume...


----------



## 118900

ElectricL said:


> Right now, nothing as I'm happy with the Cobalt and 846. Just wondering for future upgrades. Let's say somewhere around the 700$ mark.


There are rumours galore (although who really knows) that chord is working towards a mojo 2 which could be worth the wait. If it does come out it could be a viable high quality alternative especially as you’re not in a hurry. Either way definitely try before you buy


----------



## ElectricL

juansan said:


> How much are you willing to spend and how “portable” does it need to be?



Right now, nothing as I'm happy with the Cobalt and 846. Just wondering for future upgrades. Let's say somewhere around the 700$ mark.


----------



## megabigeye (Aug 20, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> No, not like that, of course there are sources they don't hiss on, as I said, it doesn't do this on any smartphone or iDevice I use, also it doesn't on AKM-based high-integrated DAC/amps like BTR3...
> As you can read just few posts above, other people also say SE846 hisses on both DFR and DFC.
> 
> It does however hiss on most amps that are considered audiophile, unfortunately. And a headphone cannot hiss by itself, it's not an active component that can generate any current flow, it can only reproduce whatever the source is sending into it. SE846 is probably just the most sensitive and low-impedance IEM out there...


Well, like I said, it's probably not what you want to hear.  I should have also tagged @ElectricL and whoever else is using the SE846.
I often read about high sensitivity / low impedance IEMs having problems with hiss and noise.  Campfire, Shure, JH Audio, I think.  Whether or not the transducers are active or passive doesn't really matter— it's still a component of the overall circuit and, in my view, not an appropriate one.
Maybe a better analogy would be putting low profile tires on your commuter car and then wondering why you have dented rims and a rough ride.

Anyway, whether or not you want to continue using those IEMs is completely up to you.  And I'm certainly not meaning to be condescending, or anything like that— in fact, I apologize in advance if that's how I seem.  I just wanted to put my perspective out there.


----------



## 118900

juansan said:


> There are rumours galore (although who really knows) that chord is working towards a mojo 2 which could be worth the wait. If it does come out it could be a viable high quality alternative especially as you’re not in a hurry. Either way definitely try before you buy


And in addition if they do come out with it and it’s closer to the much more expensive hugo2 it will be incredibly good value for money, but really the best advice I can give is whatever u choose try before you buy and if you have several options try and listen and compare them all together


----------



## a-LeXx

megabigeye said:


> Well, like I said, it's probably not what you want to hear.  I should have also tagged @ElectricL and whoever else is using the SE846.
> I often read about high sensitivity / low impedance IEMs having problems with hiss and noise.  Campfire, Shure, JH Audio, I think.  Whether or not the transducers are active or passive doesn't really matter— it's still a component of the overall circuit and, in my view, not an appropriate one.
> Maybe a better analogy would be putting low profile tires on your commuter car and then wondering why you have dented rims and a rough ride.
> 
> Anyway, whether or not you want to continue using those IEMs is completely up to you.  And I'm certainly not meaning to be condescending, or anything like that— in fact, I apologize in advance if that's how I seem.  I just wanted to put my perspective out there.



No offense.   But the SE846 is just a damn good IEM, it happend... It's just a too good a magnifying glass for any noise floor that's there. And I'm not using it with an oversized tube amp, complaining that it's too noisy, but with a non-battery powered amp, taking the same power which comes from the smartphone, and still the smartphone with a crappy embedded dac and lots of possible noise sources due to further active components manages to generate a lower noise floor than a dedicated thingy which is basically a USB transceiver + DAC + integrated amp, which actually should be dead silent...


----------



## megabigeye

a-LeXx said:


> No offense.   But the SE846 is just a damn good IEM, it happend... It's just a too good a magnifying glass for any noise floor that's there. And I'm not using it with an oversized tube amp, complaining that it's too noisy, but with a non-battery powered amp, taking the same power which comes from the smartphone, and still the smartphone with a ****ty embedded dac and lots of possible noise sources due to further active components manages to generate a lower noise floor than a dedicated thingy which is basically a USB transceiver + DAC + integrated amp, which actually should be dead silent...


No offense taken.  I'm not doubting that it's a great sounding earphone, I just think that the great sound was achieved at the expense of other design considerations; specifically, usability with a wide range of amplifiers and DACs.

I'm really not trying to instigate, or condescend, or even convince, necessarily; my intent is simply to point out another line of thinking and another set of options.

Anyway, I think we should let this thread get back to being about the DFC.


----------



## a-LeXx

Agree, and the comment that DFC with UAPP is silent is a nice point to continue... 

@ElectricL,

so it seems DFC is capable of changing the gain with UAPP. Could you please elaborate a bit more on that? What happens e.g. after you set the volume in UAPP and then use another app to play music? Does it keep the gain that was set with UAPP previously, or is the gain changing?


----------



## GDuss

megabigeye said:


> No offense taken.  I'm not doubting that it's a great sounding earphone, I just think that the great sound was achieved at the expense of other design considerations; specifically, usability with a wide range of amplifiers and DACs.
> 
> I'm really not trying to instigate, or condescend, or even convince, necessarily; my intent is simply to point out another line of thinking and another set of options.
> 
> Anyway, I think we should let this thread get back to being about the DFC.



I'm obviously not a regular contributor here, but recently acquired both the SE846 and the DFC.  I've actually been surprised at how little the 846 hiss on any of my sources (Mojo, Hugo2, DFC, iPhone dongle).  I expected the 846 to be hissing on everything based on what I read about them, but had wanted to try them for years anyway.  There was a good deal on the 846 on Prime Day (directly from Shure through Amazon) so I picked them up.  I have been way more impressed with them than I thought, and this is compared to Campfire Lyra II, Custom Art FIBAE ME, iSine 20, Massdrop Plus.  I also have the SE535 and think the 846 is a significant step up.  It's even caused me to go searching on the 846 forum to see if there may have been an unannounced change in the 846 somewhere along the line.  My impression of them is different enough from what I read that I wouldn't be surprised if there was.  The closest I could find anywhere is that they may be shipping the 846 with different filter configurations inside the filter tubes now.  The caveat is that I have only listened to the 846 with the default filter tubes it ships with, not the others yet.  But from what I have read, they should hiss even with these filter tubes.

As for the DFC, I bought the DFR a few years ago but returned it as I could not warm up to it.  It's been too long to do any comparisons between the DFR and DFC, but I like the DFC (maybe I'm older now, with different hearing, who knows).  Does it beat Mojo? I don't think so, but for anyone wanting to spend more money and who doesn't care about the extra bulk/cables of Mojo, they should get Mojo.  It's just better all around.  But that's not why I have DFC.  Sometimes I don't want to carry the Mojo.  Sometimes I just want to quickly plug something into the laptop/phone and be ready to go quickly.  Sometimes the extra cables/bulk of Mojo are not convenient (e.g. on a plane).  That's why I have DFC.  I won't argue it's a better device than Mojo, I don't think it is.

To be honest, I think there is more background noise with DFC and the Massdrop Plus than with 846.  Not sure why that is.


----------



## ElectricL (Aug 20, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Agree, and the comment that DFC with UAPP is silent is a nice point to continue...
> 
> @ElectricL,
> 
> so it seems DFC is capable of changing the gain with UAPP. Could you please elaborate a bit more on that? What happens e.g. after you set the volume in UAPP and then use another app to play music? Does it keep the gain that was set with UAPP previously, or is the gain changing?



I'll do some more testing later this evening. I use the DFC in bit perfect mode so I can  the only change the volume with the onscreen volume toggle. If I use the regular Tidal app after UAPP the hiss is back.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Using DFC with the LG V30 I'm getting some terrible squeeking distortion every 20 mins or so.  It lasts for about 10 secs and then returns to normal. This is using Qobuz and Radio Paradise apps (I just don't get on with UAPP) and into any headphone or IEM.

No problem using it from my Asus tablet.

Any thoughts?

I also have Mojo and I think the DFC runs it very close but, for me, the organic naturalness of Mojo just wins out. However, I don't think it's a fair comparison as the Mojo isn't truly portable in the same way as the DFC.  The DFC is a remarkable piece of equipment.  I write this sitting on my holiday apartment balcony overlooking Fiskardo harbour in Cephalonia, Greece, listening to amazing sound from my tablet, via DFC, to HE560s (which are pretty hard to drive put no problem for the DFC).


----------



## Devodonaldson

Muataz said:


> Hi everyone, I need help to chose between xDSD and DFC.
> 
> I can get both for the same price. previously I sold my mojo and hoped mojo 2 will come soon but nothing until now


Have mojo and xDSD and DFR. AUDIO quality in that order. DFR best treble sparkle, but the other 2 definitely sound better overall


----------



## Deftone

My Cobalt is around 20% louder


----------



## 118900 (Aug 21, 2019)

Deftone said:


> My Cobalt is around 20% louder


Very weird goings on with this little cobalt. Are all other parameters and equipment the same? (Sorry if that sounds condescending, I’m genuinely not trying to be rude) The measurement of 2.3V gave a much lower volume increase than 20% and I honestly hear no difference whatsoever and nor did  ElectricL from his post but who knows whether there are issues for the first production run


----------



## ElectricL

juansan said:


> Very weird goings on with this little cobalt. Are all other parameters and equipment the same? (Sorry if that sounds condescending, I’m genuinely not trying to be rude) The measurement of 2.3V gave a much lower volume increase than 20% and I honestly hear no difference whatsoever and nor did  ElectricL from his post but who knows whether there are issues for the first production run



The low volume issue using Tidal is driving me crazy. I have to crank the volume all the way up to hear anything with the Cobalt. It's fine listening to through Tidal via UAPP though. I contacted the the store I got it from and they think it's a weird issue but they have barely tried the Cobalt themselves yet. The problem used to be solved by a phone reboot but not anymore. The issue is not present with the red.


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 21, 2019)

ElectricL said:


> The low volume issue using Tidal is driving me crazy. I have to crank the volume all the way up to hear anything with the Cobalt. It's fine listening to through Tidal via UAPP though. I contacted the the store I got it from and they think it's a weird issue but they have barely tried the Cobalt themselves yet. The problem used to be solved by a phone reboot but not anymore. The issue is not present with the red.



That's an android issue, DFR had the same one, it has been solved for most android devices via a FW update on DFR, but not for all. There are basically 2 volume settings with android: one which actually changes the volume in the HW, and one purely sw-based. Your volume control in most android apps that is relying on android sound subsystem would actually change the sw-based volume. This has 3 negative aspects:

1. The volume can at highest get only as loud, as the hw-volume setting permits. If hw-volume is set low, your highest sw-volume will be also low (that's your issue with tidal)
2. Too big volume steps (there are usually only 16 of them)
3. By changing the sw-volume, you are actually changing the dynamic range. The lower the sw-volume, the worse the dynamic range, hence sound quality degradation

That's a reason you should actually only use UAPP with android and external wired DACs. That's also a reason I don't use android with external DACs very often, because I don't want to be limited to UAPP only.


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> That's an android issue, DFR had the same one, it has been solved for most android devices via a FW update on DFR, but not for all. There are basically 2 volume settings with android: one which actually changes the volume in the HW, and one purely sw-based. Your volume control in most android apps that is relying on android sound subsystem would actually change the sw-based volume. This has 3 negative aspects:
> 
> 1. The volume can at highest get only as loud, as the hw-volume setting permits. If hw-volume is set low, your highest sw-volume will be also low (that's your issue with tidal)
> 2. Too big volume steps (there are usually only 16 of them)
> ...




I figured it might be something to do with Android and I'm glad to hear it might get resolved via FW. I had all this in mind but the problem is that the Cobalt worked initially so that makes me think it might be something else or something to do with UAPP hijacking the volume control?


----------



## a-LeXx (Aug 21, 2019)

ElectricL said:


> I figured it might be something to do with Android and I'm glad to hear it might get resolved via FW. I had all this in mind but the problem is that the Cobalt worked initially so that makes me think it might be something else or something to do with UAPP hijacking the volume control?



Can easily have to do with UAPP hijacking the volume control. UAPP would actually change the hw-volume (that can be implemented differently in a dac, e.g. in an analog way by adjustable gain, or in a digital way). It might differ a lot from the original setting without UAPP. So if it worked without UAPP - then indeed most probablyUAPP is a root cause of your issue. In this case no FW update will fix it. You probably have that option activated that starts UAPP every time you attach a DAC. Disable that one, restart your phone - the issue then should be gone...


----------



## ElectricL

a-LeXx said:


> Can easily have to do with UAPP hijacking the volume control. UAPP would actually change the hw-volume (that can be implemented differently in a dac, e.g. in an analog way by adjustable gain, or in a digital way). It might differ a lot from the original setting without UAPP. So if it worked without UAPP - then indeed most probablyUAPP is a root cause of your issue. In this case no FW update will fix it. You probably have that option activated that starts UAPP every time you attach a DAC. Disable that one, restart your phone - the issue then should be gone...



Yeah, if it's UAPP then it's a n easy fix. I'll look into it when I get home.


----------



## joshnor713

ElectricL said:


> The low volume issue using Tidal is driving me crazy. I have to crank the volume all the way up to hear anything with the Cobalt. It's fine listening to through Tidal via UAPP though. I contacted the the store I got it from and they think it's a weird issue but they have barely tried the Cobalt themselves yet. The problem used to be solved by a phone reboot but not anymore. The issue is not present with the red.



And turning off "Loudness normalization" in Tidal's settings doesn't help?


----------



## wwyjoe

I too have lower volume when Loudess Normalization in Tidal is turned on.
Turning it off helps...


----------



## ElectricL

wwyjoe said:


> I too have lower volume when Loudess Normalization in Tidal is turned on.
> Turning it off helps...



I had it turned off. It's most likely a UAPP issue


----------



## wwyjoe

ElectricL said:


> I had it turned off. It's most likely a UAPP issue



Not UAPP or Cobalt issue. Be it my Vivo Nex S or LG V50, turning on Loudness Normalization in Tidal's own app reduces the volume.


----------



## ProfY

GDuss said:


> I'm obviously not a regular contributor here, but recently acquired both the SE846 and the DFC.  I've actually been surprised at how little the 846 hiss on any of my sources (Mojo, Hugo2, DFC, iPhone dongle).  I expected the 846 to be hissing on everything based on what I read about them, but had wanted to try them for years anyway.  There was a good deal on the 846 on Prime Day (directly from Shure through Amazon) so I picked them up.  I have been way more impressed with them than I thought, and this is compared to Campfire Lyra II, Custom Art FIBAE ME, iSine 20, Massdrop Plus.  I also have the SE535 and think the 846 is a significant step up.  It's even caused me to go searching on the 846 forum to see if there may have been an unannounced change in the 846 somewhere along the line.  My impression of them is different enough from what I read that I wouldn't be surprised if there was.  The closest I could find anywhere is that they may be shipping the 846 with different filter configurations inside the filter tubes now.  The caveat is that I have only listened to the 846 with the default filter tubes it ships with, not the others yet.  But from what I have read, they should hiss even with these filter tubes.
> 
> As for the DFC, I bought the DFR a few years ago but returned it as I could not warm up to it.  It's been too long to do any comparisons between the DFR and DFC, but I like the DFC (maybe I'm older now, with different hearing, who knows).  Does it beat Mojo? I don't think so, but for anyone wanting to spend more money and who doesn't care about the extra bulk/cables of Mojo, they should get Mojo.  It's just better all around.  But that's not why I have DFC.  Sometimes I don't want to carry the Mojo.  Sometimes I just want to quickly plug something into the laptop/phone and be ready to go quickly.  Sometimes the extra cables/bulk of Mojo are not convenient (e.g. on a plane).  That's why I have DFC.  I won't argue it's a better device than Mojo, I don't think it is.
> 
> To be honest, I think there is more background noise with DFC and the Massdrop Plus than with 846.  Not sure why that is.


----------



## ProfY

Regards the loosening USB connection, here is the reply from AudioQuest to my email about it. Immediate response and the local distributors will arrange a replacement. Unfortunate, but excellent service from them. 

The rattle is a known issue - anyone with concerns I’d suggest follow up now. 

_We are aware of the issue which affected a small batch of DragonFly Cobalt.  A rattling or very loose USB board it not normal and we apologize concerning this.  The distributor in Australia should be able to help with an exchange.  If they are not able to please advise us and we will find other means to assist.  Future production of Cobalt will not have this issue.  Thank you for your input, your understanding and for giving us a second chance to remedy the issue._


----------



## 118900

ProfY said:


> Regards the loosening USB connection, here is the reply from AudioQuest to my email about it. Immediate response and the local distributors will arrange a replacement. Unfortunate, but excellent service from them.
> 
> The rattle is a known issue - anyone with concerns I’d suggest follow up now.
> 
> _We are aware of the issue which affected a small batch of DragonFly Cobalt.  A rattling or very loose USB board it not normal and we apologize concerning this.  The distributor in Australia should be able to help with an exchange.  If they are not able to please advise us and we will find other means to assist.  Future production of Cobalt will not have this issue.  Thank you for your input, your understanding and for giving us a second chance to remedy the issue._


Excellent news


----------



## Deftone

The wiggle has been eliminated now the boosted output can be debated.


----------



## revand (Aug 22, 2019)

Wheel Hoss said:


> Ready for Cobalt vs Mojo yet?



I compared the Cobalt with the Mojo!
Believe or not with my Meze 99 Classics headphone and KZ ZS5 IEM the Cobalt clearly (!) proved to be a Mojo killer (!!!) I know that with other headphone gear other result may occur!
For me the Mojo's bass was too much (enriched) the Cobalt's bass was very natural. On the Short Tales of the Black Forrest guitar concert track both delivered excellent details, but Cobalt sounded more natural and engaging for me.
On Green Day's Wake me up When September Ends from TIDAL Masters the MQA rendering function of the Cobalt gives a considerable advantage over the Mojo: Improved dynamics, better guitar timbre, more rocky sound, and larger soundstage!
On Blue Note's recording Norwegian Wood (Patricia Barber) even if this song has "just" HIFI not Master quality the only factor the Mojo is better is Barber's beautifully natural voice, but the bass guitar the cymbals and the piano sound more "digital" on the Mojo, and sound more natural on the Cobalt!!!

It was a big surprise for me what AQ achieved from such a small device, but this is really so good!
I also compared it with Fiio M11 and found the Cobalt clearly better sounding than the M11.

Just to prove that I am not biased I do not own any of the above mentioned devices!
I am an audiophile blogger who is using as portable audio device a Hiby W5 (Bluetooth!) player with a Vorzüge VorZAMP Pure II+ headphone amplifier. My portable audio system was close to the Cobalt, but overall the Cobalt proved to be a winner.
The high price is fully justified here! The AQ DFC review is coming soon on my blog....
So far the Cobalt is the best portable audio device of the Year!


----------



## Tenashus1

revand said:


> I compared the Cobalt with the Mojo!
> Believe or not with my Meze 99 Classics headphone and KZ ZS5 IEM the Cobalt clearly (!) proved to be a Mojo killer (!!!) I know that with other headphone gear other result may occur!
> For me the Mojo's bass was too much (enriched) the Cobalt's bass was very natural. On the Short Tales of the Black Forrest guitar concert track both delivered excellent details, but Cobalt sounded more natural and engaging for me.
> On Green Day's Wake me up When September Ends from TIDAL Masters the MQA rendering function of the Cobalt gives a considerable advantage over the Mojo: Improved dynamics, better guitar timbre, more rocky sound, and larger soundstage!
> ...


I cannot help but agree wholeheartedly. It really is quite the little item.


----------



## 118900

Tenashus1 said:


> I cannot help but agree wholeheartedly. It really is quite the little item.


I have yet to hear either the mojo or the hugo2 myself, however IF (as many people seem to suggest, including an acquaintance) the mojo is already relatively  close in terms of sound quality to the hugo2 and the DRC beats the mojo hands down, is it now being suggested that the DFC is on a par or close to the Hugo with its 7 fold price difference? Please note I am not trying to be polemic with this question, I am genuinely interested whether this is indeed the case.


----------



## a-LeXx

All versions of dragonfly have a very low power headphone amplifier. While it‘s enough to drive some headphones, it‘s by far not enough to drive many big cans. Mojo and Hugo both have a much stronger amplification section.

So, if the power output is enough to drive your headphones - the sound quality is subjektiv, one would prefer Mojo, another one Hugo, third person would prefer DFC or DFR. Also depends on headphones...


----------



## GDuss

juansan said:


> I have yet to hear either the mojo or the hugo2 myself, however IF (as many people seem to suggest, including an acquaintance) the mojo is already relatively  close in terms of sound quality to the hugo2 and the DRC beats the mojo hands down, is it now being suggested that the DFC is on a par or close to the Hugo with its 7 fold price difference? Please note I am not trying to be polemic with this question, I am genuinely interested whether this is indeed the case.



I'm not sure everyone would agree that DFC beats Mojo.  DFC and Mojo sound different to me in the way they present music (and in a way that I am entirely unqualified to put into words, unlike many of the professional reviewers).  I prefer the way Mojo sounds, but in fairness, I have had Mojo much longer than DFC (Mojo about 2 years, DFC less than 1.5 months).  I will say that DFC is the first device where I don't struggle with the decision to leave Mojo at home when I'm out/traveling.  Now I can grab DFC, head out the door, and I don't think twice about it.  As for whether Mojo is close to Hugo2 (I have both), to me they are close.  People will of course say it is night and day different, and maybe on their headphones/IEMs that's true, but I don't think that is true on mine.  Whether the difference in price between Mojo and Hugo2 is worth it to anyone, even if they are night and day, is completely up to them.


----------



## Haden2866

juansan said:


> I have yet to hear either the mojo or the hugo2 myself, however IF (as many people seem to suggest, including an acquaintance) the mojo is already relatively  close in terms of sound quality to the hugo2 and the DRC beats the mojo hands down, is it now being suggested that the DFC is on a par or close to the Hugo with its 7 fold price difference? Please note I am not trying to be polemic with this question, I am genuinely interested whether this is indeed the case.


I'm not sure I would agree with your statement that DFC beats Mojo hands down - if you look at all the reviews and take an average then you might conclude that DFC is perhaps more relaxed-sounding, and that may well be your preference, but most reviews and impressions suggest that Mojo retrieves more detail, and again that might be your thing. And as @a-LeXx helpfully points out, Mojo has a much more powerful output than DFC, which may suit some use cases.
I still haven't heard DFC yet so I can't give an opinion but to anyone new to this thread your post might position DFC as a Mojo killer and I don't feel that's necessarily representative.


----------



## ElectricL (Aug 22, 2019)

a-LeXx said:


> Can easily have to do with UAPP hijacking the volume control. UAPP would actually change the hw-volume (that can be implemented differently in a dac, e.g. in an analog way by adjustable gain, or in a digital way). It might differ a lot from the original setting without UAPP. So if it worked without UAPP - then indeed most probablyUAPP is a root cause of your issue. In this case no FW update will fix it. You probably have that option activated that starts UAPP every time you attach a DAC. Disable that one, restart your phone - the issue then should be gone...



UAPP was the culprit. After disabling autostart everything is back to normal.


----------



## ElectricL

Another thing, regarding the hiss. It turns out that viper4android, even though it does wonders for the overall sound it's responsible for the audible hiss. With viper turned off there is no hiss. So I guess it's a compromise when using viper. Just wanted to add that for anybody wondering about hiss and the cobalt+846.


----------



## 118900

Haden2866 said:


> I'm not sure I would agree with your statement that DFC beats Mojo hands down - if you look at all the reviews and take an average then you might conclude that DFC is perhaps more relaxed-sounding, and that may well be your preference, but most reviews and impressions suggest that Mojo retrieves more detail, and again that might be your thing. And as @a-LeXx helpfully points out, Mojo has a much more powerful output than DFC, which may suit some use cases.
> I still haven't heard DFC yet so I can't give an opinion but to anyone new to this thread your post might position DFC as a Mojo killer and I don't feel that's necessarily representative.


It’s not me that says it. I’m asking a question based on others making that statement. As I wrote I have never heard either the mojo or the hugo2 but some people are making very strong statements hence the question


----------



## Condocondor

DFC is close in sound quality to my Micro iDSD Black Label.  The Black Label has more power and better sound staging than DFC.  I can use the XBass and 3D+ switches on the BL to improve some recordings and add some fun.  However, the DFC has a very slightly better defined bass response; it's a bit tighter.  But honestly, it's so close.  The Micro iDSD BL is more musical, more versatile, more powerful, and more fun.  The stunner is how close DFC comes to iDSD BL performance in a package that so damn small!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dewan7825

I recently purchased my DFC and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Before that I used to listen over DFB and definitely DFC is way better than it. I am using iPhone XS Max as my source and the only problem is when I use CA Comet earphones the battery dies very quickly and because of that I am exploring my other options and I came across IFI xCAN and heard good reviews about them but before buying it I want to know how good it is compared to DFC sound wise specially while using bluetooth connection with iPhone. Thanks.


----------



## audiomonkey777

Condocondor said:


> DFC is close in sound quality to my Micro iDSD Black Label.  The Black Label has more power and better sound staging than DFC.  I can use the XBass and 3D+ switches on the BL to improve some recordings and add some fun.  However, the DFC has a very slightly better defined bass response; it's a bit tighter.  But honestly, it's so close.  The Micro iDSD BL is more musical, more versatile, more powerful, and more fun.  The stunner is how close DFC comes to iDSD BL performance in a package that so damn small!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I'm late getting in here as been away but yup, still preferring my BL with my Meze and my Finals. It's just got that bit more oomph!


----------



## JasonCA

For anyone who already has an ES100 (about $100) for current daily IEM use, why should or should they not consider adding the DFC (about $300) as an alternative DAC to their current Head-Fi inventory to play around with?

Sound differences (if any) vs price? What is there to be gained? Or, would the honest advice be to simply not bother?


----------



## a-LeXx

JasonCA said:


> For anyone who already has an ES100 (about $100) for current daily IEM use, why should or should they not consider adding the DFC (about $300) as an alternative DAC to their current Head-Fi inventory to play around with?
> 
> Sound differences (if any) vs price? What is there to be gained? Or, would the honest advice be to simply not bother?



For usage with iDevices - yes, why not? Is a valid option to play with.

For android - unless yo use UAPP, android‘s support for dacs that do not have a dedicated volume control is awful. So, if you use android with UAPP - then the same as with ios, why not...

If you however want to use something besides uapp, e.g. amazon music, any dragonfly is a real usability nightmare in terms of volume setting/adjustment. ES100 or BTR3 with their dedicated volume controls that change analog gain in 2 dB steps is a huge step up in usability for such cases...


----------



## bcwang

I have a iPhone XS Max as well as a pixel 3A. To answer some hissing questions, I’ve tried it with the SE846. 

-I notice very little hissing with se846 on either the pixel 3a or iPhone, no difference I can tell between the two in fact. On both phones, the volume control operates the same as far as I can tell, I use the first 3 clicks on both phones for almost all music with that headphone.

I don’t know what’s going on with other posts about android phones having huge hiss and iPhone being quiet. Maybe the particular android implementation. 

However with the pixel 3a I am not using UAPP so I don’t get mqa with the tidal app correctly. Everything comes out at 48khz. That I know is a limitation with this phone without UAPP but I just wanted to say the volume control works fine. 

With my 64audio U12 I also find almost no hiss, although it is louder. Some songs the first click above mute is already kind of loud.  I wish they had more fine tuning at the low end of the volume like the explorer 2. This is tailored for mobile use which means many IEM users. I only can choose between 2 or 3 volume settings at the very bottom of the scale. That isn’t very useful. Maybe a firmware update could change the steps to be more suitable.


----------



## McCol

Looking for a small Dac for my S10+ to use with various earbuds that range in ohm value from 150-500 and Senn 660s.  Initially looked at the Cobalt then turned my attention to either the xDSD or Fiio Q5s however I want the small form factor of the Cobalt.

Anybody tried these types of earbuds or the 660s headphones with the Cobalt, and if so did it have enough juice to drive them sufficiently?


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

McCol said:


> Looking for a small Dac for my S10+ to use with various earbuds that range in ohm value from 150-500 and Senn 660s.  Initially looked at the Cobalt then turned my attention to either the xDSD or Fiio Q5s however I want the small form factor of the Cobalt.
> 
> Anybody tried these types of earbuds or the 660s headphones with the Cobalt, and if so did it have enough juice to drive them sufficiently?



The 660s only has an impedance of 150 ohms and they have a fairly high sensitivity. So the Cobalt should easily be able to drive them.


----------



## Tenashus1

Hifiearspeakers said:


> The 660s only has an impedance of 150 ohms and they have a fairly high sensitivity. So the Cobalt should easily be able to drive them.


660s sound great with the Cobalt.


----------



## Deftone

McCol said:


> Looking for a small Dac for my S10+ to use with various earbuds that range in ohm value from 150-500 and Senn 660s.  Initially looked at the Cobalt then turned my attention to either the xDSD or Fiio Q5s however I want the small form factor of the Cobalt.
> 
> Anybody tried these types of earbuds or the 660s headphones with the Cobalt, and if so did it have enough juice to drive them sufficiently?



Drives them fine.


----------



## revand

JasonCA said:


> For anyone who already has an ES100 (about $100) for current daily IEM use, why should or should they not consider adding the DFC (about $300) as an alternative DAC to their current Head-Fi inventory to play around with?
> 
> Sound differences (if any) vs price? What is there to be gained? Or, would the honest advice be to simply not bother?



I do not have an ES100, since I am using a Hiby W5 player.
However recently I reviewed the Cobalt on my Hungarian blog and found so far the best portable audio device of 2019. 
(To read my review just use Google Translate)
I compared the Cobalt with my Hiby W5 - Vorzüge Pure II+ portable player and even with the Chord Mojo.
I am convinced to say that using my Meze 99 Classics headphone and KZ ZS5 (ChiFi) IEM the AQ DRF Cobalt was clearly the best player!
I just read the HIFI NEWS Magazine's latest Cobalt review and they found it exactly the same stunning device as me...and they gave the Cobalt 88%!!!
So far such high marks went only to devices cost 10 thousand £ or more!


Even if I do not have a Cobalt at the moment I have a firm opinion that Cobalt is a marvelous device and worth the USD 300 asking price.


----------



## 118900 (Sep 5, 2019)

revand said:


> I do not have an ES100, since I am using a Hiby W5 player.
> However recently I reviewed the Cobalt on my Hungarian blog and found so far the best portable audio device of 2019.
> (To read my review just use Google Translate)
> I compared the Cobalt with my Hiby W5 - Vorzüge Pure II+ portable player and even with the Chord Mojo.
> ...


Compared to the DFR I agree. The more you listen to it the more it grows on you. Haven’t heard it against the mojo.


----------



## audiomonkey777

McCol said:


> Looking for a small Dac for my S10+ to use with various earbuds that range in ohm value from 150-500 and Senn 660s.  Initially looked at the Cobalt then turned my attention to either the xDSD or Fiio Q5s however I want the small form factor of the Cobalt.
> 
> Anybody tried these types of earbuds or the 660s headphones with the Cobalt, and if so did it have enough juice to drive them sufficiently?



I've got an ifi nano BL which I love which works great, but I've heard fantastic things about their xDSD too. It's next on my shopping list tbh. It's the next step up for me. They have a lot of reviews on their site at https://ifi-audio.com/products/xdsd/ and there's a thread on here too which you've no doubt seen. Not sure about the Cobalt. I like the size but there's something about the xDSD and plus I know from my nano, that it's a sound i like. interested to hear what you decide.


----------



## Tenashus1

audiomonkey777 said:


> I've got an ifi nano BL which I love which works great, but I've heard fantastic things about their xDSD too. It's next on my shopping list tbh. It's the next step up for me. They have a lot of reviews on their site at https://ifi-audio.com/products/xdsd/ and there's a thread on here too which you've no doubt seen. Not sure about the Cobalt. I like the size but there's something about the xDSD and plus I know from my nano, that it's a sound i like. interested to hear what you decide.


 I have all three, and interestingly enough, I keep running to the Cobalt.


----------



## Hellraiser86

a-LeXx said:


> No offense.   But the SE846 is just a damn good IEM, it happend... It's just a too good a magnifying glass for any noise floor that's there. And I'm not using it with an oversized tube amp, complaining that it's too noisy, but with a non-battery powered amp, taking the same power which comes from the smartphone, and still the smartphone with a ****ty embedded dac and lots of possible noise sources due to further active components manages to generate a lower noise floor than a dedicated thingy which is basically a USB transceiver + DAC + integrated amp, which actually should be dead silent...


If it’s just for the hiss you can use ifi‘s inear. 
I use it with my Solaris on the Hugo, QP2R and the DFR. Because it hisses really hard (or maybe I am very sensible for this^^)


----------



## bcwang

Hellraiser86 said:


> If it’s just for the hiss you can use ifi‘s inear.
> I use it with my Solaris on the Hugo, QP2R and the DFR. Because it hisses really hard (or maybe I am very sensible for this^^)



I find the cobalt to not hiss with the se846. Either they did a good job with it or my hearing sensitively has gone bad recently. Normally the se846 hisses with almost every amp I use it with, some products very badly, but I can’t notice any hissing with the cobalt.


----------



## a-LeXx (Sep 6, 2019)

Hellraiser86 said:


> If it’s just for the hiss you can use ifi‘s inear.
> I use it with my Solaris on the Hugo, QP2R and the DFR. Because it hisses really hard (or maybe I am very sensible for this^^)



Nope, this iFi's thingy doesn't work with SE846 and any of the DFXs.

The problem is - on a low dampening setting, the output impedance of the IEMatch is around 4Ohm, it's WAY too high for an SE846, which itself has an impedance of around 4Ohm at around 3kHz... On a high dampening setting, IEMatch has an output impefance of around 1Ohm, which is not that bad, but DFR/DFC do not have enough power to drive it, they start to distort early, the dampening factor is just too high.

I do have an IEmatch from iFi, but I use it for different purposes. With my SE846 I mostly use a Fiio BTR3, perfectly black background, nice DAC, no complains...


----------



## 118900

bcwang said:


> I find the cobalt to not hiss with the se846. Either they did a good job with it or my hearing sensitively has gone bad recently. Normally the se846 hisses with almost every amp I use it with, some products very badly, but I can’t notice any hissing with the cobalt.


Good to hear (or not as the case may be).


----------



## Dewan7825

McCol said:


> Looking for a small Dac for my S10+ to use with various earbuds that range in ohm value from 150-500 and Senn 660s.  Initially looked at the Cobalt then turned my attention to either the xDSD or Fiio Q5s however I want the small form factor of the Cobalt.
> 
> Anybody tried these types of earbuds or the 660s headphones with the Cobalt, and if so did it have enough juice to drive them sufficiently?



I would suggest you go with xDSD. I have both Cobalt and xDSD and since I purchased xDSD I never touched my Cobalt. First it cause no battery drainage of a phone, second it connects over Bluetooth and third it sounds much better than DFC. But that doesn’t mean that I will let go DFC.


----------



## McCol

audiomonkey777 said:


> I've got an ifi nano BL which I love which works great, but I've heard fantastic things about their xDSD too. It's next on my shopping list tbh. It's the next step up for me. They have a lot of reviews on their site at https://ifi-audio.com/products/xdsd/ and there's a thread on here too which you've no doubt seen. Not sure about the Cobalt. I like the size but there's something about the xDSD and plus I know from my nano, that it's a sound i like. interested to hear what you decide.





Dewan7825 said:


> I would suggest you go with xDSD. I have both Cobalt and xDSD and since I purchased xDSD I never touched my Cobalt. First it cause no battery drainage of a phone, second it connects over Bluetooth and third it sounds much better than DFC. But that doesn’t mean that I will let go DFC.



Went for the Cobalt in the end.  Form factor of the units was the final part of my decision process.

It arrived yesterday and have listened for around 4 hours so far.  Initial impressions are that this is an excellent little product.  
Had some issues with an old app I've been using for playback on my S10+, volume would be really loud then just go so quiet, deleted this app and installed USB Audio Player Pro which I bought a couple of years ago but never really used.  Works like a dream now. 

Sound is quite staggering for such a small Dac/Amp.  Drives my small inventory of headphones/earphones with no problem.  

What it has done has got me thinking about my actual need for my Ibasso DX220, I only use it sparingly and have long desired an option that could allow me to use my mobile as my DAP.  I think the Cobalt might do that.  Not for one minute saying it is better than the DX220 but it has made rethink my little audio setup.  I can see me selling the ibasso and potentially still investing in the IFI Micro BL as there is something about that device that I want to try.  Not overly fussed by the whole bluetooth stuff, if I really want to use bluetooth I've got my Sony 1000m3 for that.


----------



## McCol

Ok so I'm using tidal for the MQA masters through the UAPP app.  No issues - works lovely and sounds great.  I've read elsewhere on the thread about the issues with the TIdal/Android app and low volume, I'm also experiencing this, it's also not showing the correct colour on the cobalt.

To be honest I don't have a major issue with having to use tidal through UAPP but what about downloaded offline tracks/albums?  Am I right in assuming that I can only stream with UAPP, I can's see a way of downloading music for offline with Tidal on UAPP.


----------



## AtrafCreez

McCol said:


> Went for the Cobalt in the end.  Form factor of the units was the final part of my decision process.
> 
> It arrived yesterday and have listened for around 4 hours so far.  Initial impressions are that this is an excellent little product.
> Had some issues with an old app I've been using for playback on my S10+, volume would be really loud then just go so quiet, deleted this app and installed USB Audio Player Pro which I bought a couple of years ago but never really used.  Works like a dream now.
> ...


----------



## AtrafCreez

Am about to get the Samsung Galaxy S10+ in the post God Willing in a few days. Its my first ever Mobile Phone in 66 years. Good to know the Cobalt drives it. I viewed yesterday the micro iDSD Black Label online. Wouldn't it be heavy to lug around with the smartphone? I really appreciate your coment about the Cobalt AND your mention of "Audio USB Player" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en Music has been a great love since age 8 but I have little knowledge of the equipment, especially living in Israel where it can be bought, but not advertised.  Question to you: How would the Dragonfly Red measure to use on the S10+? Would it also help on my Sennheiser RS 185 and RS 195 lossless wireless via PC? Thanks


----------



## McCol

AtrafCreez said:


> Am about to get the Samsung Galaxy S10+ in the post God Willing in a few days. Its my first ever Mobile Phone in 66 years. Good to know the Cobalt drives it. I viewed yesterday the micro iDSD Black Label online. Wouldn't it be heavy to lug around with the smartphone? I really appreciate your coment about the Cobalt AND your mention of "Audio USB Player" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en Music has been a great love since age 8 but I have little knowledge of the equipment, especially living in Israel where it can be bought, but not advertised.  Question to you: How would the Dragonfly Red measure to use on the S10+? Would it also help on my Sennheiser RS 185 and RS 195 lossless wireless via PC? Thanks


Can't answer your queries about the Dragonfly Red as I've never heard it, this is my first Dragonfly.
The ifi micro bl would be too big too carry around bit I might get it as more of a home/office device. Even though I don't really work that much in an office!!


----------



## AtrafCreez

McCol said:


> Can't answer your queries about the Dragonfly Red as I've never heard it, this is my first Dragonfly.
> The ifi micro bl would be too big too carry around bit I might get it as more of a home/office device. Even though I don't really work that much in an office!!


Thank You ,Here is a very deep, detailed testing of all 3 Dragonfly(ies)  :https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html , https://www.audioquest.com,   https://www.amazon.com/stores/AudioQuest/node/13979917011. The red would be plenty for a smartphone, its the middle of cobalt and black, but it seems I'll need to do some more searching for a better DAC for my PC. Thank You


----------



## a-LeXx

One more objective review of Cobalt, with tons of measurements:
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/objective-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review-r832/

Basically it confirms findings of Archimago, including the clipping even with no load... So, it was not a bad unit that Archimago used for testing, but actually a bad design, clipping should never happen without load...


----------



## McCol

Sounds good though!!


----------



## Tenashus1

McCol said:


> Sounds good though!!


Can't explain it, but the Cobalt sure sounds great. This may sound funny, but my graduate work in psychology led me to take stats with a grain of salt. It's all relative.


----------



## AtrafCreez

B"H,  Its a good sign. You are the right man for the  right profession. My Wife is a Psych. PHD and another in Special Ed Education. Machines don't have a soul so they should more or less act the same , except if the temperature is too cold or hot, a fuse blows or a glitch, someone meddled with them when you weren't in the room, or...if our brain cannot compute what the ears are hearing.Yet humans are a much more delicate mechanism we have a body and a soul.


----------



## McCol

I honestly don't mind charts and graphs, find them interesting but they play no part in my buying decisions. 
Only my wallet and ears make those decisions


----------



## Haden2866

McCol said:


> Sounds good though!!


Oh lord


----------



## McCol

Haden2866 said:


> Oh lord



Your post around 10 pages ago sums up my feelings.
I think that most people who purchase a DAC type product probably don't use many heavily compressed files. I understand the clipping issue in the charts however I don't hear it myself on my listening so far.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

a-LeXx said:


> One more objective review of Cobalt, with tons of measurements:
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/objective-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review-r832/
> 
> Basically it confirms findings of Archimago, including the clipping even with no load... So, it was not a bad unit that Archimago used for testing, but actually a bad design, clipping should never happen without load...



Interesting that this "objective" review based on electronic measurements concludes there's no improvement from the DF red, yet pretty much every review by someone who has listened to it says the improvement is significant.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Steve Wilcox said:


> Interesting that this "objective" review based on electronic measurements concludes there's no improvement from the DF red, yet pretty much every review by someone who has listened to it says the improvement is significant.



+1


----------



## 118900

McCol said:


> Your post around 10 pages ago sums up my feelings.
> I think that most people who purchase a DAC type product probably don't use many heavily compressed files. I understand the clipping issue in the charts however I don't hear it myself on my listening so far.


Nor do I and an objective head to head comparison between the red and cobalt led me to sell the red and keep the cobalt


----------



## a-LeXx

And here a subjective review from the same source as objective review:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/subjective-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review-r831/

The reviewer likes the Cobalt a lot, but also said it ain't any better than a DFR which he also uses all the time.

I really suspect the major difference is the different filter setting used in the DFC vs DFR. Too bad AQ does not allow user to change the filter, all sabre DACs support multiple filters as well as custom filters...


----------



## Tenashus1 (Sep 8, 2019)

Between the two of them (DFR and DFC), I would buy all three. I hope that this ends the confusion about which one to buy.


----------



## 118900

Tenashus1 said:


> Between the two of them (DFR and DFC), I would buy all three. I hope that this ends the confusion about which one to buy.


To be honest if form factor is not absolutely essential some may consider the Chord Mojo which has dropped in price to GBP 299 now


----------



## Tenashus1 (Sep 8, 2019)

I see so many reviews of the Mojo that complain about its reliability, sometimes inconsistent sound quality, and lack of customer service.


----------



## a-LeXx

The problem with mojo is - in 3 to 4 years it will turn into a paperweight, because the battery will die. If you are in GB, you will be at least able to replace the battery for half the price of a new unit. If you are e.g. in continental Europe - thanks to the coming hard brexit and following issues with customs and taxes, one can actually forget it completely... I personally use my gear longer than just 3-4 years, even the smartphones... So, buying a mojo doesn't make much sense from the economical point of view, a dragonfly is a much more reasonable choice...


----------



## joshnor713

a-LeXx said:


> The problem with mojo is - in 3 to 4 years it will turn into a paperweight, because the battery will die. If you are in GB, you will be at least able to replace the battery for half the price of a new unit. If you are e.g. in continental Europe - thanks to the coming hard brexit and following issues with customs and taxes, one can actually forget it completely... I personally use my gear longer than just 3-4 years, even the smartphones... So, buying a mojo doesn't make much sense from the economical point of view, a dragonfly is a much more reasonable choice...



That's interesting, because my Mojo is 3-4 years old and the battery is still going strong. And also no reliability or SQ issues as suggested above.


----------



## cursive

a-LeXx said:


> One more objective review of Cobalt, with tons of measurements:
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/objective-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review-r832/
> 
> Basically it confirms findings of Archimago, including the clipping even with no load... So, it was not a bad unit that Archimago used for testing, but actually a bad design, clipping should never happen without load...



If using this with a phone to drive a separate amp does that mean you'd have to reduce volume on the phone by 5-6db to avoid clipping?  I've never used a dragonfly device but I assume it doesn't have it's own volume control?


----------



## a-LeXx

joshnor713 said:


> That's interesting, because my Mojo is 3-4 years old and the battery is still going strong. And also no reliability or SQ issues as suggested above.



Then cross your fingers it stays alive. Replacement of the battery ain‘t cheap on mojo...


----------



## a-LeXx

cursive said:


> If using this with a phone to drive a separate amp does that mean you'd have to reduce volume on the phone by 5-6db to avoid clipping?  I've never used a dragonfly device but I assume it doesn't have it's own volume control?



Yes, exactly this. To stay safe of clipping, you should reduce the volume on the phone by few dB...


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> The problem with mojo is - in 3 to 4 years it will turn into a paperweight, because the battery will die. If you are in GB, you will be at least able to replace the battery for half the price of a new unit. If you are e.g. in continental Europe - thanks to the coming hard brexit and following issues with customs and taxes, one can actually forget it completely... I personally use my gear longer than just 3-4 years, even the smartphones... So, buying a mojo doesn't make much sense from the economical point of view, a dragonfly is a much more reasonable choice...


Surely the same could be said about every single battery powered device you have except apple where (if you have an apple store nearby) you can book a battery change and they will do it in store. Every other device that has batteries that need removal by a technician would have the same problem so like I said, unless form factor is important it is a viable alternative so long as people understand the differences in portability. Personally I have the choice to move to the mojo but will stick with the DFC as I like the the output from it and the form factor is of great convenience


----------



## 118900 (Sep 9, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> I see so many reviews of the Mojo that complain about its reliability, sometimes inconsistent sound quality, and lack of customer service.


I read a whole lot of reviews about the Mojo when I first starting looking for portable DACs a couple of years ago and have read more since then and although I have obviously not read them, all I have never heard of these being issues that plague the Mojo, certainly no more than any other similar product. To be honest there have been more complaints about the DFCs build quality on here and in other reviews than anything I have ever seen about the mojo.

Having said that I preferred to stick with the DFC for its form factor and also apparent interference issues between the Mojo and the Iphone when not in flight mode, something that can also be mitigated with a longer connection cable.

Either way the original point was that the mojo is a viable alternative to several portable DACs including the dragonflies (form factor permitting) and should be considered by someone looking for options, especially given the recent price reduction. As always, it is fundamental to try before you buy.


----------



## CarlosTX

I just upgraded to the DragonFly Cobalt from the DragonFly Red. For me, the sound is a marked upgrade. But … I’m having a bizarre issue with significant hissing that the Cobalt is causing that the DFR never did even though I haven’t changed my setup.


When the music I’m listening to is multi-instrumental, regardless of genre, the hissing is drowned out. But if I’m listening to a solo instrumental piece—(i.e., a piano sonata)—the noise is unbearable.


My set-up: Beyerdynamic Amiron headphones into a Beyerdynamic A20 amp. My amp into the Cobalt. The Cobalt into a USB slot using a Windows 10 desktop.


One important note: When I plug my headphones directly into the Cobalt the hissing vanishes. But the volume isn’t as loud going this route, and the “heft” of the music is not as pronounced.


 Would love any ideas on what could be the cause.


Thanks!


----------



## Haden2866

CarlosTX said:


> I just upgraded to the DragonFly Cobalt from the DragonFly Red. For me, the sound is a marked upgrade. But … I’m having a bizarre issue with significant hissing that the Cobalt is causing that the DFR never did even though I haven’t changed my setup.
> 
> 
> When the music I’m listening to is multi-instrumental, regardless of genre, the hissing is drowned out. But if I’m listening to a solo instrumental piece—(i.e., a piano sonata)—the noise is unbearable.
> ...


Flat battery on the amp?


----------



## bcwang

CarlosTX said:


> I just upgraded to the DragonFly Cobalt from the DragonFly Red. For me, the sound is a marked upgrade. But … I’m having a bizarre issue with significant hissing that the Cobalt is causing that the DFR never did even though I haven’t changed my setup.
> 
> 
> When the music I’m listening to is multi-instrumental, regardless of genre, the hissing is drowned out. But if I’m listening to a solo instrumental piece—(i.e., a piano sonata)—the noise is unbearable.
> ...



-did you make sure to run max volume or just shy of max on the cobalt so you’re not running a lot of gain on the amp?

-sure it’s hissing and not buzzing?  I’ve had some dacs buzz when connected to one of my amps but not other dacs.  I think it was some strange phenomenon though as putting my hand on the Dac metal shell eliminated the buzzing. Seemed like some weird grounding problem except it was a usb powered Dac so it has no ground loop to form.


----------



## a-LeXx

CarlosTX said:


> I just upgraded to the DragonFly Cobalt from the DragonFly Red. For me, the sound is a marked upgrade. But … I’m having a bizarre issue with significant hissing that the Cobalt is causing that the DFR never did even though I haven’t changed my setup.
> 
> 
> When the music I’m listening to is multi-instrumental, regardless of genre, the hissing is drowned out. But if I’m listening to a solo instrumental piece—(i.e., a piano sonata)—the noise is unbearable.
> ...


Sounds like a ground loop hum. What is DFC connected to, a PC? If yes, try a battery-powered source to check whether the noise disappears...


----------



## CarlosTX

a-LeXx said:


> Sounds like a ground loop hum. What is DFC connected to, a PC? If yes, try a battery-powered source to check whether the noise disappears...



Yes, I have it connected directly into my Dell XPS desktop. I’ve tried all the USB slots to no avail.

Thanks for your suggestion


bcwang said:


> -did you make sure to run max volume or just shy of max on the cobalt so you’re not running a lot of gain on the amp?
> 
> -sure it’s hissing and not buzzing?  I’ve had some dacs buzz when connected to one of my amps but not other dacs.  I think it was some strange phenomenon though as putting my hand on the Dac metal shell eliminated the buzzing. Seemed like some weird grounding problem except it was a usb powered Dac so it has no ground loop to form.



Excellent point: What I’m hearing is indeed more of a buzz rather than hiss, which is intrusive. With my DFR there would be occasions when I’d hear a similar buzz, but after untangling wires, the buzz went away. Sometimes it would stop after a few seconds. 

With Cobalt, the buzzing ls louder and incessant. I’ll try your suggestion. 

Thanks!


----------



## CarlosTX

Haden2866 said:


> Flat battery on the amp?





Haden2866 said:


> Flat battery on the amp?



The A20 amp is not battery-powered; it’s a plug-in.


----------



## jnorris

If the Teac has a 3 prong power plug, get one of those 3 to 2 prong adapters.  It will lift the ground on the Teac and break the loop..


----------



## Haden2866

CarlosTX said:


> The A20 amp is not battery-powered; it’s a plug-in.


D'oh


----------



## a-LeXx

CarlosTX said:


> Yes, I have it connected directly into my Dell XPS desktop. I’ve tried all the USB slots to no avail.



What do you mean with the USB slots? As long as there is a galvanic connection to your pc, the ground loop can persist. You need to try e.g.  a smartphone or a battery powered laptop as a source instead of your pc


----------



## jnorris

Try the 3 to 2 prong adapter (available everywhere for less that $5.00).  It removes the center ground connector and that will break the ground loop and remove the buzz.  Worked many times for me. Sorry, in a previous post I said Teac when I should have said Beyerdynamic.  The A20 does have a three prong power plug, so my suggestion is worth a try.


----------



## CarlosTX

jnorris said:


> Try the 3 to 2 prong adapter (available everywhere for less that $5.00).  It removes the center ground connector and that will break the ground loop and remove the buzz.  Worked many times for me. Sorry, in a previous post I said Teac when I should have said Beyerdynamic.  The A20 does have a three prong power plug, so my suggestion is worth a try.



Thank you, jnorris. I got an adapter, per your suggestion, and the buzzing is gone. Whew!


----------



## jnorris

Very glad to hear that!


----------



## 118900

bcwang said:


> I find the cobalt to not hiss with the se846. Either they did a good job with it or my hearing sensitively has gone bad recently. Normally the se846 hisses with almost every amp I use it with, some products very badly, but I can’t notice any hissing with the cobalt.


SE 846’s just arrived and I can confirm absolute NO HISSING from the DFC


----------



## GDuss

My SE 846's don't hiss with the Cobalt, but they also don't hiss with my other sources either.  I just got the 846 about 2 months ago (new) and I'm wondering whether Shure did a silent revision to them.  I expected them to hiss with everything, based on all the comments I read about them.  They don't hiss at all (at least with what I have tried them on, Cobalt, Mojo, Hugo 2, iPhone dongle).  They sound great with the Cobalt.


----------



## joshnor713

Also gotta keep in mind that hissing can be a result of ear sensitivity too. I have sensitive ears and can hear hissing with the SE846 in most things. Still, sounds like the Cobalt is a huge improvement compared to the Red in this respect, as it seemed like most people could ear hiss. Myself, I had to return the Red because the hiss was just too invasive.


----------



## GDuss

joshnor713 said:


> Also gotta keep in mind that hissing can be a result of ear sensitivity too. I have sensitive ears and can hear hissing with the SE846 in most things. Still, sounds like the Cobalt is a huge improvement compared to the Red in this respect, as it seemed like most people could ear hiss. Myself, I had to return the Red because the hiss was just too invasive.



Great point.  It could simply be that I can't hear the hiss or that I have only used sources that they do not hiss with.  It looks like you have Mojo, do your 846s hiss with it?  If so, then I'd be curious to see whether you heard any hiss with your 846 and the Cobalt.  If you end up listening to them together, please let us know.


----------



## joshnor713

GDuss said:


> Great point.  It could simply be that I can't hear the hiss or that I have only used sources that they do not hiss with.  It looks like you have Mojo, do your 846s hiss with it?  If so, then I'd be curious to see whether you heard any hiss with your 846 and the Cobalt.  If you end up listening to them together, please let us know.



I hear hiss with the Mojo very faintly. Also wondering if it's RF interference I'm hearing, as the Mojo isn't the best in that regard. The iFi Micro iDSD BL is one of the only devices I've heard that's dead silent.

Really interested in hearing the Cobalt. But I won't bite until I can get it at a lower price. $300 is too much for it to me.


----------



## 118900 (Sep 16, 2019)

GDuss said:


> My SE 846's don't hiss with the Cobalt, but they also don't hiss with my other sources either.  I just got the 846 about 2 months ago (new) and I'm wondering whether Shure did a silent revision to them.  I expected them to hiss with everything, based on all the comments I read about them.  They don't hiss at all (at least with what I have tried them on, Cobalt, Mojo, Hugo 2, iPhone dongle).  They sound great with the Cobalt.


They aren’t hissing with the hugo2 either so win win. I do wonder if there has been a revision. Even though I won’t be using them with the hugo2 at least I know the hiss is not an issue. Need to do some long term listening with the DFC now just for the sound quality but definitely no hissing, at least not that I can hear anyway.


----------



## GDuss

joshnor713 said:


> I hear hiss with the Mojo very faintly. Also wondering if it's RF interference I'm hearing, as the Mojo isn't the best in that regard. The iFi Micro iDSD BL is one of the only devices I've heard that's dead silent.
> 
> Really interested in hearing the Cobalt. But I won't bite until I can get it at a lower price. $300 is too much for it to me.



It's not cheap, and there is another thread on Head-Fi arguing it's not worth its price (an argument that I think can be made with many things on this forum).  I was ok with its cost, and am happy with it based on its performance/size/features, but understandably not everyone will be.  Hopefully they start showing up soon on the sales forum so more people can try it out.


----------



## a-LeXx (Sep 16, 2019)

A possible issue of DFC + SE846 is the treble roll-off on DFC combined with the same on SE846. Might be too dark of a pairing... for those who can still hear above 17kHz


----------



## someyoungguy

Got a Dragonfly Cobalt in the post yesterday, and have been listening last night and this morning.

First thoughts:
* Wow, it is small. I had the Dragonfly Black some years ago but the size difference is noticeable.
* I see what people mean about the wiggle. Hope it holds up!
* I'm not into unboxing and packaging, but seeing the packaging and comprehensive instruction manual was a nice surprise.

Most important - sound. It's good. Nice black background and sense of space and imaging. The bass isn't as hard hitting as some other sources I've tried. I tend to like it punchier, but that's not too much of a shortcoming as overall the tone, timbre etc is great. There has even been a few occasions where I've noticed some extra details. Still, very pricey for a USB dongle though! I agree with others that it would have been better pitched a bit lower. I'll just have to keep it for ages to extract all that extra value out of it! 

For usability, it's got no lag on Windows, which is great because it can double it up as a movie/video streaming audio enhancement, not just music. On the iPhone I have had a couple of drop outs where the dreaded "device not supported" pop up comes up after a couple of minutes of play. Not sure what the issue is, in both cases I was simultaneously browsing online with my phone, so maybe the extra current draw while also using processing power causes my phone to pack a sad. It's a relatively new iPhone XR though so I'm not sure whether than explains it.

I bought it with the idea it would probably be a backup device - not replace my DAP but be handy for use on the go if I run out of battery, or maybe if I'm heading somewhere and would prefer something smaller than a DAP. I'm old school and tend to buy music then download it and transfer it onto my non-streaming DAP (currently Plenue M2). But the audio quality directly out of my computer is so awful I find it hard to really evaluate new music. So I've come to the conclusion some kind of USB-DAC device is pretty much a necessity for use with my phone or computer, and the Cobalt will do nicely.

I've gone through various options over the years. The Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS is probably the most user-friendly one I've used - two big buttons for volume up and down on it which makes matching the right volume so much easier than just using the phone/computer volume control. But the way volume is handled on the Cobalt seems better than other options I've tried like the Dragonfly Black or Nextdrive Spectra - with both of those I couldn't get above about volume 6-8 on the Windows slider out of 100, so no fine volume control at all. Really made them difficult to use, regardless of how they sounded. Cobalt has a better ramp at lower volumes so I'm at about 15 on a Windows computer, and about halfway on my iPhone, even with sensitive headphones like the B&W P7s and Momentums, so there's enough volume control to use it properly. It will probably replace the xDSD for use with my computer. Not necessarily to do with sound, but I only really need a simple USB DAC device so the xDSD with extra charging requirements and features etc is excess to what I need. Simplicity is good! My Plenue M2 will stay as my preferred source for on the go.


----------



## bcwang

someyoungguy said:


> Got a Dragonfly Cobalt in the post yesterday, and have been listening last night and this morning.
> But the way volume is handled on the Cobalt seems better than other options I've tried like the Dragonfly Black or Nextdrive Spectra - with both of those I couldn't get above about volume 6-8 on the Windows slider out of 100, so no fine volume control at all. Really made them difficult to use, regardless of how they sounded. Cobalt has a better ramp at lower volumes so I'm at about 15 on a Windows computer, and about halfway on my iPhone, even with sensitive headphones like the B&W P7s and Momentums, so there's enough volume control to use it properly.
> .



Haha, I guess the P7 and momentum's aren't really that sensitive.  Where you are half way on the iphone, I am at 1/10th of the 1st bar on the iphone to get it low enough to comfortably use with my 64audio A12.  Yes, you heard that right, 1/10th of the 1st bar.  Like, starting at mute, if you press volume up once, you get that first bar.  That's too loud.  So now I have to get the volume slider to show up by dragging down from the right side of the screen, then lower that volume below the first bar to the smallest of slivers before mute.  It's probably less than 1/10th of the first bar but whose counting?  Essentially it's the lowest volume I could possibly get out of the iphone above mute.

I'm just glad it doesn't hiss with my current state of hearing.


----------



## MysticLeviathan

Has anyone else had issues with the headphone jack being all wiggly?  Like if you shake the unit, you can hear the headphone jack port shaking around.  I got a unit about a month ago, decided to send it back to the company I bought it from and have them send me a replacement unit, but the replacement has a similar looseness of the headphone jack.  My red's headphone jack isn't loose at all.  Is it just poor design?  It's almost like there's too much space in the hole where the headphone jack is supposed to go.  It's not a huge amount of space, it's not falling out or anything, but I'm concerned it might at some point.  I carry my dragonfly in my pocket wherever I go with the headphones connected to it, so I'm concerned it'll loosen up to the point it'll be a problem at some point.


----------



## bcwang

MysticLeviathan said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the headphone jack being all wiggly?  Like if you shake the unit, you can hear the headphone jack port shaking around.  I got a unit about a month ago, decided to send it back to the company I bought it from and have them send me a replacement unit, but the replacement has a similar looseness of the headphone jack.  My red's headphone jack isn't loose at all.  Is it just poor design?  It's almost like there's too much space in the hole where the headphone jack is supposed to go.  It's not a huge amount of space, it's not falling out or anything, but I'm concerned it might at some point.  I carry my dragonfly in my pocket wherever I go with the headphones connected to it, so I'm concerned it'll loosen up to the point it'll be a problem at some point.



Mine is like that.  It started off tight and with multiple unplug and plugs of usb and headphone jack, the whole case is a little loose and sounds like rattling.  But I think the circuit board and headphone jack are with the bottom panel as one piece, and the other shell parts are separate.  It's probably slight movement between those two letting it seem like rattling.  But I doubt it will be a problem, it's probably got some catch in there that has some tolerance so it may move but never fall off without separating the two halves first.  I'm not worried about it at all, especially since it seems most of them are like that or may eventually become like that with use.


----------



## Tenashus1

MysticLeviathan said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the headphone jack being all wiggly?  Like if you shake the unit, you can hear the headphone jack port shaking around.  I got a unit about a month ago, decided to send it back to the company I bought it from and have them send me a replacement unit, but the replacement has a similar looseness of the headphone jack.  My red's headphone jack isn't loose at all.  Is it just poor design?  It's almost like there's too much space in the hole where the headphone jack is supposed to go.  It's not a huge amount of space, it's not falling out or anything, but I'm concerned it might at some point.  I carry my dragonfly in my pocket wherever I go with the headphones connected to it, so I'm concerned it'll loosen up to the point it'll be a problem at some point.


I've been through 5, all with the same issue. Holding on to one and going with the flow. Enjoying the Cobalt every moment. If something happens, I'll cross that bridge then. For now, it's great.


----------



## GDuss

MysticLeviathan said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the headphone jack being all wiggly?  Like if you shake the unit, you can hear the headphone jack port shaking around.  I got a unit about a month ago, decided to send it back to the company I bought it from and have them send me a replacement unit, but the replacement has a similar looseness of the headphone jack.  My red's headphone jack isn't loose at all.  Is it just poor design?  It's almost like there's too much space in the hole where the headphone jack is supposed to go.  It's not a huge amount of space, it's not falling out or anything, but I'm concerned it might at some point.  I carry my dragonfly in my pocket wherever I go with the headphones connected to it, so I'm concerned it'll loosen up to the point it'll be a problem at some point.



Mine is only very slightly loose.  Actually I had a DFR a few years ago that was way worse, it rattled like crazy.  I returned that one and didn't get another.  So at least in my experience this is not isolated to DFC.


----------



## someyoungguy

bcwang said:


> Haha, I guess the P7 and momentum's aren't really that sensitive.  Where you are half way on the iphone, I am at 1/10th of the 1st bar on the iphone to get it low enough to comfortably use with my 64audio A12.  Yes, you heard that right, 1/10th of the 1st bar.  Like, starting at mute, if you press volume up once, you get that first bar.  That's too loud.  So now I have to get the volume slider to show up by dragging down from the right side of the screen, then lower that volume below the first bar to the smallest of slivers before mute.  It's probably less than 1/10th of the first bar but whose counting?  Essentially it's the lowest volume I could possibly get out of the iphone above mute.
> 
> I'm just glad it doesn't hiss with my current state of hearing.


Yeah I think independent volume control would greatly enhance the usability of this thing. 2Vrms is a huge amount of power for typical mobile headphones and IEMs. Using that with only 11 steps of control of the iPhone is crazy.

Seems to me if companies are aiming for the mobile market with USB dongles they should reduce the power if they make a unit without volume control. But most I’ve seen are designed at about 2 Vrms - the Black is the only one I can think of that’s lower off the top of my head. Probably because they all use line-out style amp chips which are usually 2 Vrms. At least with the DacMagic XS there’s 54 steps of volume attenuation built into the unit.


----------



## KukoCL

megabigeye said:


> Hey @Ultrainferno,
> Thanks for the early impressions!
> I've got some questions, if you can answer 'em.
> 
> ...


How can you connect the Dragonfly to your S9?

I have an S9+ and I want to connect the Dragonfly Cobalt, but I don't know if I can connect directly the dragontail's USB C to the S9+, or I need to use that mini USB dongle that comes with the phone, in order to make the OTG connection work?


----------



## bcwang

KukoCL said:


> How can you connect the Dragonfly to your S9?
> 
> I have an S9+ and I want to connect the Dragonfly Cobalt, but I don't know if I can connect directly the dragontail's USB C to the S9+, or I need to use that mini USB dongle that comes with the phone, in order to make the OTG connection work?



The Galaxy S9 is usb-c so both the dragon tail and that adapter it came with are going to do the same thing. But the dragon tail is flexible so probably a better choice so you don’t snap the connector off by accident which is possible using the hard adapter it comes with.


----------



## megabigeye

KukoCL said:


> How can you connect the Dragonfly to your S9?
> 
> I have an S9+ and I want to connect the Dragonfly Cobalt, but I don't know if I can connect directly the dragontail's USB C to the S9+, or I need to use that mini USB dongle that comes with the phone, in order to make the OTG connection work?


I believe you should be able to just use the USB-C DragonTail that ships with the Cobalt.  I'm no longer using my DFR (3.5mm jack gave out), but I was using a similar adapter from Insignia, which I think cost about $6 (though I don't think they still make it).  Just make sure whatever you use is snug and that it covers most/all of the DragonFly's USB plug.  Nothing more irritating than having that come loose while you're walking down the street.
Also, if I recall, the mini-USB–USB-C adapter that came with the phone does not do data, just power. But I might be mis-remembering.


----------



## someyoungguy

I’ve been using this for the last few days at home and walking to and from work, instead of my usual DAP.

This little thing sounds great, fantastic detail and nice crunch with electric guitars, good layering and separation of lower registers. I’m EQing a fraction more bass with Onkyo HF player (just a touch) which actually makes the impact and weight pretty much perfect for me. Maybe some burn in helped too, but the bass is plenty satisfying now compared to my previous comment out of the box.

Even with the slow roll-off I’m finding the treble a little bright for my ears, so may drop that a notch with EQ too. Maybe I’m just getting old ...

Anyway, the long and short of it is: this thing can really slay! Good feeling of emotion and sense of drive, as well as the usual audiophile tick boxes of separation, layering etc. It may even become my everyday carry and lead me to stop using a DAP, for the first time ever (gulp!).


----------



## bcwang

I ran into an interesting situation today.  I decided to try my cobalt to play through my stereo system using a macbook pro.  Tidal detected the dragonfly and automatically set it up to "exclusive mode", "locked volume", and not "pass through" mqa so it could do software unfolding and send it to the dragonfly.  

Now, I have to say at this point I am lucky the dragonfly was connected to the line-in of my stereo and not my IEMs.  Because it was now essentially playing at full volume, the tidal volume control was locked to full volume as normally would be done to support MQA.  And the volume control of the OS was not taking effect, maybe because of exclusive mode.  I could not select the dragonfly and have a working volume slider.  

So anyone know what's going on here and how to safely have volume control on OSX while keeping full quality MQA output?


----------



## fire2368

Does anyone have an AK SR15 and compared it to this?

I'm not sure if it's better to go phone/ipad + cobalt or just have the AK SR15 as a DAP.


----------



## Cynistrategus (Oct 9, 2019)

Remember all those early posts about the rattling Dragonfly Cobalt?  Well, I've found out that the headphone jack side of the plastic USB enclosure is just a cap that appears to only be held in by friction.  Guess how I know?

Yes, when I put the Cobalt into tight USB plugs now, I can now eject that cap and remove the board from the entire blue plastic enclosure if I'm not careful.  Wonderful.


----------



## bcwang

Cynistrategus said:


> Remember all those early posts about the rattling Dragonfly Cobalt?  Well, I've found out that the headphone jack side of the plastic USB enclosure is just a cap that appears to only be held in by friction.  Guess how I know?
> 
> Yes, when I put the Cobalt into tight USB plugs now, I can now eject that cap and remove the board from the entire blue plastic enclosure if I'm not careful.  Wonderful.



Photos of the insides and the shell please!

By the way, are you sure it’s plastic and not metal?


----------



## Cynistrategus

I believe you are right, most of the case feels like metal, but the cap feels like plastic to me.  It looks like the headphone jack may have been fastened internally and appears to have detached from the inside of the case.  RMA to happen.


----------



## 118900

Cynistrategus said:


> I believe you are right, most of the case feels like metal, but the cap feels like plastic to me.  It looks like the headphone jack may have been fastened internally and appears to have detached from the inside of the case.  RMA to happen.


totally unacceptable for a product at that price (or cheaper for that matter).


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

You should send that to audio quest if you haven't already.  Absolutely shocking.


----------



## chimney189

Does anyone know if the Spectra X is more powerful that the DFC?


----------



## someyoungguy

chimney189 said:


> Does anyone know if the Spectra X is more powerful that the DFC?


I used to have the Nextdrive Spectra X and now have the Dragonfly Cobalt. I've used B&W P7s with each, and on both I have/had the volume very low on a Windows 10 laptop - about 6-8 on the volume slider out of 100. So I haven't done a direct comparison but they seemed equally powerful in use. The specs on the Spectra X say it is 2 Vrms output to almost exactly the same on paper.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm shocked to see things like this happen to the Cobalt, and I hope AQ has been notified. I certainly hope they would refund or replace immediately.
In my review sample (I couldn't tell if it was checked upfront) the build quality is perfect and I have no issue whatsoever with it.
My review, in case you're interested, is here: https://www.headfonia.com/audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt-review/
To me this is the best DF, purely looking at sound and not price. If the price is worth it, is only up to you to decide.


----------



## Haden2866 (Oct 17, 2019)

I've been living with Dragonfly Cobalt (DFC) daily now for a month or more.
My primary use case is pretty simple - I use it hooked up to an iPhone 8 Plus playing Tidal, on- and offline, HiFi and Master.
I happen to have an IFi Audio iSilencer so I have left that in the chain - at some point I will take it out and see if I miss it. Lightning to USB is a silver cable by Lavri Cables - this includes the Apple CCK chipset so only one cable is required.
A strip of 3M Commander (like Velcro) fastens DFC, iSilencer and cable to the back of the phone - it's removable and very discrete, which is a consideration for me; this is a work phone. No issues with DFC build quality for me.
At the business end, where the rubber hits the road, I mostly use Flare Audio Flares PRO IEMs. Twice a day I plug it into the aux input of my stock Toyota Avensis car stereo for a half-hour commute. Sometimes I use various easy-to-drive headphones. As I type this, the mobile rig is plugged into my Minirig portable 2.1 system; I'm in a hotel room in London; the sound is phenomenal.
I had a Mojo for 18 months or so - sold it in the end but don't miss it. Compared to Mojo, from what I can remember, DFC has a livelier sound, a wider, more spacious soundstage and perhaps a slightly euphonic quality. It's a very engaging listen - definitely has the special sauce. Not as detailed, for sure but a more relaxed presentation overall, I would say.
Nice. I will be using this every day for the foreseeable future.


----------



## al2813 (Oct 18, 2019)

I sat this week in a hi-fi store in Stockholm and thanks to the wonderful sales guy (who knew I wasn't going to buy anything and still offered me the demo plus a listen to their B&W 800 D3 setup) I had the opportunity to test both the Red and the Cobalt with my iPhone XS Max with the Qobuz app and my Tin Audio T3.
to my non experienced ears the SFC has a much bigger sound stage. A lot more space. There's no real comparison. I was however a bit disappointed on the volume side. I had to go quite high on the volume.

I am now looking at getting a DAC for my iPhone to avoid carrying two phones (currently I carry an LG G7 for music only). The DFC looked an interesting option due to its size, but I am not convinced to pay 300 euros for it, so am looking at other options (Topping NX4, E1DA 9038S). Not sure yet which one to take. I would like to spend 150 max so that I can keep more money for extra headphones.


----------



## someyoungguy

Seems like after the update to iOS 13 I can't get my iPhone to recognize DFC. Anyone else having this problem? The dragonfly light comes on but there's no option available to select it as an output.


----------



## Haden2866

someyoungguy said:


> Seems like after the update to iOS 13 I can't get my iPhone to recognize DFC. Anyone else having this problem? The dragonfly light comes on but there's no option available to select it as an output.


No problems here - iOS 13.1.3, DFC firmware v1.0.
I've never seen an option to select the output before - what apps have you tried playing from?


----------



## someyoungguy

Haden2866 said:


> No problems here - iOS 13.1.3, DFC firmware v1.0.
> I've never seen an option to select the output before - what apps have you tried playing from?


Hmmm, I’m using an iPhone XR with iOS 13.1.2. I don’t know what DFC firmware I’ve got, but I’ve never updated it so I presume 1.0.

I haven’t used the DFC with my phone for a few weeks and updated the iOS during that time, so only noticed this morning. Tried restarting the phone and that didn’t fix it. I usually use Onkyo HF player, but I tried YouTube as an alternative app and likewise no output from DFC. Usually at the bottom next to volume control you can bring up a pop up window which will show you the available audio output options, but DFC doesn’t show as an option for me.


----------



## Haden2866 (Oct 19, 2019)

someyoungguy said:


> Hmmm, I’m using an iPhone XR with iOS 13.1.2. I don’t know what DFC firmware I’ve got, but I’ve never updated it so I presume 1.0.
> 
> I haven’t used the DFC with my phone for a few weeks and updated the iOS during that time, so only noticed this morning. Tried restarting the phone and that didn’t fix it. I usually use Onkyo HF player, but I tried YouTube as an alternative app and likewise no output from DFC. Usually at the bottom next to volume control you can bring up a pop up window which will show you the available audio output options, but DFC doesn’t show as an option for me.




So there is. Never knew that was there. Mine's working just fine so I'm not sure what to suggest next. Hope you get it sorted.


----------



## Tenashus1

I don't know what happened in the case of the DFC that fell apart. All I can say is if I ever needed another DFC, I'd buy it in a flash. I'm addicted to its clarity, relaxed, and noise free sound. It gets better the more it ages (just like me).


----------



## 118900 (Oct 20, 2019)

Tenashus1 said:


> I don't know what happened in the case of the DFC that fell apart. All I can say is if I ever needed another DFC, I'd buy it in a flash. I'm addicted to its clarity, relaxed, and noise free sound. It gets better the more it ages (just like me).


Agree with regards to sound quality and even buying a new one in a flash BUT not due to faulty workmanship or, as I suspect, a design fault. If they start to rattle and literally fall to pieces less than three months after being purchased then audioquest needs to replace them under warranty and (unless they want to stop selling them) find a permanent solution BUT I for one would not spend 300 bucks equivalent every three months knowing there is a fault that could render the product useless.

I had the DFR for over two years on constant use and never had a prob in all that time so I know what audioquest are capable of. Considering the number of complaints and nature of the fault which seems identical in each case, there is almost certainly a design fault that needs to be ironed out as this product is brand new and has a slightly different form factor to the standard DFB and DFR.

New form factors often have niggling problems (that can cause big failures) so Kudos to audioquest for acknowledging this as indicated in an earlier post but now corrective action is required including warranty substitutions where necessary. Regardless I agree the sound quality is superb for the price and above and I sincerely hope audioquest fixes the issue and has great success with it.


----------



## Tenashus1

juansan said:


> Agree with regards to sound quality and even buying a new one in a flash BUT not due to faulty workmanship or, as I suspect, a design fault. If they start to rattle and literally fall to pieces less than three months after being purchased then audioquest needs to replace them under warranty and (unless they want to stop selling them) find a permanent solution BUT I for one would not spend 300 bucks equivalent every three months knowing there is a fault that could render the product useless.
> 
> I had the DFR for over two years on constant use and never had a prob in all that time so I know what audioquest are capable of. Considering the number of complaints and nature of the fault which seems identical in each case, there is almost certainly a design fault that needs to be ironed out as this product is brand new and has a slightly different form factor to the standard DFB and DFR.
> 
> New form factors often have niggling problems (that can cause big failures) so Kudos to audioquest for acknowledging this as indicated in an earlier post but now corrective action is required including warranty substitutions where necessary. Regardless I agree the sound quality is superb for the price and above and I sincerely hope audioquest fixes the issue and has great success with it.



Yes, of course.


----------



## xealien

Dragonfly Cobalt lasted a whole 2 weeks until it started to smoke... yikes.


----------



## FastAndClean

xealien said:


> Dragonfly Cobalt lasted a whole 2 weeks until it started to smoke... yikes.


not from your bag i hope


----------



## xealien

FastAndClean said:


> not from your bag i hope



No thankfully, I was at Starbucks...once it started to smoke I was asked to leave the store but got a free coffee gift card.


----------



## joshuachew

Somtimes a simple set up is all you need....


----------



## McCol (Oct 29, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## Cynistrategus

Got my replacement warranty Cobalt - for anyone who cares, I think any play in the male USB attachment is abnormal as this replacement doesn't rattle when shaken or move around when inserted into a USB receptacle.  This was definitely not the case with the first once I had, which ended up coming apart on me.


----------



## GDuss

Cynistrategus said:


> Got my replacement warranty Cobalt - for anyone who cares, I think any play in the male USB attachment is abnormal as this replacement doesn't rattle when shaken or move around when inserted into a USB receptacle.  This was definitely not the case with the first once I had, which ended up coming apart on me.



I think this is great to hear.  My Cobalt only very barely wiggles on either side, and it's been the same since I got it several months ago.  Maybe I'm one of the lucky people who got a good one, but hopefully AQ is getting this addressed so people can be more comfortable purchasing the Cobalt (assuming they think it's worth the price) and enjoy it for what it is, an outstanding super-portable DAC/AMP.


----------



## someyoungguy

GDuss said:


> I think this is great to hear.  My Cobalt only very barely wiggles on either side, and it's been the same since I got it several months ago.  Maybe I'm one of the lucky people who got a good one, but hopefully AQ is getting this addressed so people can be more comfortable purchasing the Cobalt (assuming they think it's worth the price) and enjoy it for what it is, an outstanding super-portable DAC/AMP.


Mine has a slight rattle too, like that new out of the box. I’ve mainly been using it as a desktop DAC attached to my computer, so little wear and tear. But I do take it out and about occasionally. I’m wondering what will happen if it has slow wear and tear and doesn’t fail or break until after the warranty expires!


----------



## GDuss

someyoungguy said:


> Mine has a slight rattle too, like that new out of the box. I’ve mainly been using it as a desktop DAC attached to my computer, so little wear and tear. But I do take it out and about occasionally. I’m wondering what will happen if it has slow wear and tear and doesn’t fail or break until after the warranty expires!



Good question.  Maybe start taking it out and about more while you still have warranty coverage.  If it starts loosening up, it's better to happen now than after the warranty expires.


----------



## Cynistrategus

After seeing how mine appeared to be attached, I would be sure to support the headphone jack with gentle pressure when putting the Cobalt into a USB jack. The headphone jack appears to be fastened internally to the side of the case, and that’s where my original Cobalt seemed to let go resulting in the board moving around.


----------



## kidd6454

Can anyone compare the DFC to an Onkyo Granbeat?


----------



## al2813

It’s true that I listened to the Cobalt once and I almost bought it. Than I fell on a Topping NX4 on this forum sold unused at a third of the price of the Cobalt (new it’s about half the price) and honestly the NX4 kicks the Cobalt. More of just about everything!


----------



## 118900 (Nov 10, 2019)

al2813 said:


> It’s true that I listened to the Cobalt once and I almost bought it. Than I fell on a Topping NX4 on this forum sold unused at a third of the price of the Cobalt (new it’s about half the price) and honestly the NX4 kicks the Cobalt. More of just about everything!


With all due respect surely you’re missing the whole point of the advantages of the DFC form factor. If the form factor is not an important factor to you, there’s boatloads of DACs that “kick” the cobalt.


----------



## al2813 (Nov 10, 2019)

Personally, and I repeat this is a personal opinion, the nx4 (as well as other DAC amps in the same size) is portable enough. From the moment you give up a certain level of comfort by going wired + DAC, i don’t see a massive difference between the two. If I really want to be portable (I.e I go with shorts and a t shirt and have no bag), I think Bluetooth is the only real option.

Just my opinion. And again if the cobalt was half the price or delivering an exceptional performance, I would have maybe a different opinion. In any case this is very personal.


----------



## Father Schu

When I originally asked Audioquest the question of rattle/wiggle after receiving my Cobalt they said it was ok if there was a 'little' play but that anything more was defective.

One of the previous emails said that Audioquest acknowledged a production issue and that it was being corrected.

I'm wondering if people are still buying these and getting stock with loose connectors?  I would like to re-buy but not if current stock still has the issue.


----------



## Tenashus1

Been through 5 so far trying to get a wiggle-less one. The current one still has a slight wiggle on the headphone jack. Kept it.  I just use mine at home. Treat it gently, so it's not an issue for me.


----------



## 118900

Father Schu said:


> When I originally asked Audioquest the question of rattle/wiggle after receiving my Cobalt they said it was ok if there was a 'little' play but that anything more was defective.
> 
> One of the previous emails said that Audioquest acknowledged a production issue and that it was being corrected.
> 
> I'm wondering if people are still buying these and getting stock with loose connectors?  I would like to re-buy but not if current stock still has the issue.


The problem is that unless they have a recall of the thousands sold to retailers, you definitely risk buying one that is “old” stock and therefore at risk of the defect. Is it maybe worth asking audioquest whether they have issued a recall/replacement?


----------



## Cynistrategus

I walk around all the time with the Cobalt attached to my iPhone with a small, flexible USB - Lightning adapter that allows the Cobalt to sit behind or next to my phone in my front pants pocket.  Once I get it setup and ready to go, there's minimal operational difference between Cobalt + wired headphones and wired headphones straight into a headphone jack.    There's no need for a bag.  



al2813 said:


> Personally, and I repeat this is a personal opinion, the nx4 (as well as other DAC amps in the same size) is portable enough. From the moment you give up a certain level of comfort by going wired + DAC, i don’t see a massive difference between the two. If I really want to be portable (I.e I go with shorts and a t shirt and have no bag), I think Bluetooth is the only real option.
> 
> Just my opinion. And again if the cobalt was half the price or delivering an exceptional performance, I would have maybe a different opinion. In any case this is very personal.


----------



## Haden2866

Not strictly on the topic of DFC vs... but I wanted to share my discovery that DFC turns out to drive my 300 Ohm German Maestro GMP 8.300D closed-back headphones with real authority, out of my iPhone 8plus. I'm really pleased - I thought I'd try them out but was expecting to need a headphone amp to get the best out of DFC with them - not so; this is a tremendous pairing. A couple of hours' use suggests that battery drain is well within acceptable range.
These are the headphones I shall be wearing after the apocalypse when all others have turned to dust.

 
Here's DJ JFB running his signature edition model over with a car in Brighton just because why not:


----------



## Cynistrategus

That's interesting.  I tried a Sennheiser 650 in the store with the Cobalt and iPhone and I could max the volume and only be a little uncomfortable listening to it... my seat of the pants feel with that is it probably could use more power, and I see the HD 650 is rate at 300 ohms impedance.  



Haden2866 said:


> Not strictly on the topic of DFC vs... but I wanted to share my discovery that DFC turns out to drive my 300 Ohm German Maestro GMP 8.300D closed-back headphones with real authority, out of my iPhone 8plus. I'm really pleased - I thought I'd try them out but was expecting to need a headphone amp to get the best out of DFC with them - not so; this is a tremendous pairing. A couple of hours' use suggests that battery drain is well within acceptable range.
> These are the headphones I shall be wearing after the apocalypse when all others have turned to dust.
> 
> Here's DJ JFB running his signature edition model over with a car in Brighton just because why not:


----------



## Haden2866

Cynistrategus said:


> That's interesting.  I tried a Sennheiser 650 in the store with the Cobalt and iPhone and I could max the volume and only be a little uncomfortable listening to it... my seat of the pants feel with that is it probably could use more power, and I see the HD 650 is rate at 300 ohms impedance.


I'm listening again now - at 3/4 volume it's probably over my usual listening level. At max volume it's usable - not trouser-flappingly loud, as we used to say, but usable. YMMV, of course. Must be getting old.


----------



## gooeyrich

Newbie question, is this enough of an upgrade over products like Nuforce Udac5 and Audioengine D3 to justify the price difference?


----------



## 118900

Cynistrategus said:


> That's interesting.  I tried a Sennheiser 650 in the store with the Cobalt and iPhone and I could max the volume and only be a little uncomfortable listening to it... my seat of the pants feel with that is it probably could use more power, and I see the HD 650 is rate at 300 ohms impedance.


Have you compared the respective sensitivities? subjective loudness acceptance levels for each person would also play their part


----------



## KaiFi (Nov 23, 2019)

My experience with this thing is that it's very powerful. Even with my 150 ohm Sennheiser/Massdrop 58X, only four volume squares on my Mac. Any higher and it's blowing out my eardrums. I don't remember this with the Dragonfly Red.

I prefer the sound of the DFC to the unbalanced output of my Fiio Q5s (AM3E).


----------



## AltoBajo

Has anyone compared the Cobalt SQ with the Sony Nw1a DAP SQ? I'm trying to figure wether to get an iPad Pro paired with a Cobalt,or the Sony.I'll be using IEMs.I had the first two black Dragonflies when they were released hooked up with a MacBook.They were a revelation at the time,performance and form factor.Thanks!


----------



## TK33

Father Schu said:


> When I originally asked Audioquest the question of rattle/wiggle after receiving my Cobalt they said it was ok if there was a 'little' play but that anything more was defective.
> 
> One of the previous emails said that Audioquest acknowledged a production issue and that it was being corrected.
> 
> I'm wondering if people are still buying these and getting stock with loose connectors?  I would like to re-buy but not if current stock still has the issue.



I just picked one up in store at B&H.  Immediately took it out to check in case I needed to exchange it but it seems sturdy with no rattle/wiggle.  It is only a few hours old so only time will tell (fingers crossed/knock on wood).

Really enjoying it right now on my way home from work.


----------



## bujinkan (Dec 3, 2019)

hello to all of you
i just have a question maybe also it is stupid
according to the led colors it is
Once attached to your laptop or smartphone, and selected as means of audio output, the DAC’s LED will shine one of six colours to indicate sampling rate: red for standby, green for 44.1kHz, blue for 48kHz, yellow for 88.2 kHz, light blue for 96kHz or purple when decoding MQA.

so today i got my new dragonfly and conected it to my huawei p30pro

i played 1 mqa song
1st play through tidal app and the color was  light blue so 96khz
i then played it through uapp and i also got the paid version for the extra mqa decoding
gues what......color dark blue meaning 48khz
no purple not even light blue through uapp

am i missing something?


----------



## scarfacegt

I only get light blue color when playing tidal mqa with the cobalt and samsung note 10 plus.


----------



## scarfacegt

So i downloaded usb audio player pro and and also bought the mqa support that you need to play mqa on audio player.Tried mqa on tidal,and still not the right light on cobalt for mqa.It shows blue or green.I dont use the usb c cable that followed the cobalt.I already had this audioquest cable:

https://www.hifiklubben.no/kabler/d...aptre/audioquest-dragontail-usb-c-usb-kabel-/


----------



## someyoungguy

Darko put up some discussion of struggles with hi res formats on Android in this post, might help?: https://darko.audio/2019/07/10-more-thoughts-on-the-audioquest-dragonfly-cobalt/


----------



## scarfacegt (Dec 4, 2019)

I got the uuap.And bougt the mqa that you had to have,to get mqa on uuap.But it doesnt glow purple.In uuap tidal,it says 96khz on the right side of the song,and 44 or 48 on the left.It only glows green or blue.Is the something i have to do in settings?


----------



## bujinkan

Got it... Must  go settings usb audio bit perfect Mode  and click the option when possible


----------



## scarfacegt

Works here now also


----------



## happyforestgump

I’m enjoying my new cobalt. It sounds better than my xdsd with my Westone UM 50 Pro. But I’m wondering: does a dap like the M11 Pro sound better? Thank you


----------



## Dan279

I have an iPhone 11 Pro and 1More Quad driver earphones. I’m considering getting a dragonfly (I have the budget for a cobalt if that’s what ends up being the best option). I don’t stream my music but instead buy them from the iTunes Store and download them to my phone (I don’t buy enough music regularly to warrant a streaming service plan). With that being the case and my music is capped at the size iTunes allows, would a dragonfly make any difference? And if so, which one would allow for the best quality sound from my earphones? I don’t want to get the DFC if it would be pointless. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## 1nilla

Dan279 said:


> I have an iPhone 11 Pro and 1More Quad driver earphones. I’m considering getting a dragonfly (I have the budget for a cobalt if that’s what ends up being the best option). I don’t stream my music but instead buy them from the iTunes Store and download them to my phone (I don’t buy enough music regularly to warrant a streaming service plan). With that being the case and my music is capped at the size iTunes allows, would a dragonfly make any difference? And if so, which one would allow for the best quality sound from my earphones? I don’t want to get the DFC if it would be pointless.
> Thanks in advance


I didn’t own iphone 11 pro but ipad pro and samsung s9+. My DFC sounds way better with both device and it sounds even better than other dac at its price range (in my opinion) including his little brother DFR. Still not kinda sure what you ask? I use both streaming app like spotify and iTunes, it can use well with both. I don’t recommend buying dac more expensive than earphone tho. From my experience, more expensive earphone and some cheaper dac will give you a better sound than cheap-moderate earphone and expensive dac.


----------



## Dan279

1nilla said:


> I didn’t own iphone 11 pro but ipad pro and samsung s9+. My DFC sounds way better with both device and it sounds even better than other dac at its price range (in my opinion) including his little brother DFR. Still not kinda sure what you ask? I use both streaming app like spotify and iTunes, it can use well with both. I don’t recommend buying dac more expensive than earphone tho. From my experience, more expensive earphone and some cheaper dac will give you a better sound than cheap-moderate earphone and expensive dac.


My main question is that, given I don’t stream from services such as tidal which offer hi res streaming, and I only play music I’ve downloaded from the iTunes Store, will a DF be of any benefit. But given your comment, would you then recommend the DFR or DFB and not the DFC? I understand the premise of not spending more on the DAC but given the headphones I use are quad drivers, I figured, of any of the headphones I use, they might be underperforming when playing just from the phone.


----------



## 1nilla

Dan279 said:


> My main question is that, given I don’t stream from services such as tidal which offer hi res streaming, and I only play music I’ve downloaded from the iTunes Store, will a DF be of any benefit. But given your comment, would you then recommend the DFR or DFB and not the DFC? I understand the premise of not spending more on the DAC but given the headphones I use are quad drivers, I figured, of any of the headphones I use, they might be underperforming when playing just from the phone.


For me, DFB have more bass and DFR have better instrument seperation but both of them lack soundstage which I prefer the most (I am not really enjoy with any of them, actually) so I won't recommend them because DFC is a combination of them with upgraded everything and soundstage. You get it right about underperforming when playing from phone. Without external dac or dap, headphone will not fully perform its actual potential. I'm sorry I cannot recommend you any lightning dac, I try lot of usb-c but a few lightning dac.


----------



## psikey

happyforestgump said:


> I’m enjoying my new cobalt. It sounds better than my xdsd with my Westone UM 50 Pro. But I’m wondering: does a dap like the M11 Pro sound better? Thank you



I had the M11 and DFC sounds better than that. But I also just got a Fiio BTR5 BT/DAC and even over LDAC BT it sounds fabulous with my SE846's, especially via balanced.

A have the new Sony A105 too and I'd say that's as good as the DFC but different Sound Sig. DFC more tingly highs and wider soundstage.


----------



## Condocondor

I haven't commented since I started this whole thread some months ago but I thought I'd chime in with an *update* about how I use and enjoy my Cobalt.  I actually use it as a quick and easy desktop system with my laptop. But there is a caveat: I use 2 other devices with it. I use the iFi Audio USB iPurifier3 and the iSilencer with a short USB A-to-B adapter. These two devices together really take the Cobalt to the next level. I rarily ever use my Micro iDSD BL anymore because the cobalt with these devices is just super. The headphone pictured are my favorite portable cans: Thinksound ON2 headphones. It's just a fantastic system to listen to Youtubes with.


----------



## happyforestgump

I’ve just updated to IOS 13.3 and have noticed a high pitch noise when audio is playing and about ten seconds after it’s been paused. Has anyone else noticed this? This doesn’t happen with the apple dac. This wasn’t an issue before last night before the update. It is fairly noticeable.


----------



## elindil

psikey said:


> I had the M11 and DFC sounds better than that. But I also just got a Fiio BTR5 BT/DAC and even over LDAC BT it sounds fabulous with my SE846's, especially via balanced.
> 
> A have the new Sony A105 too and I'd say that's as good as the DFC but different Sound Sig. DFC more tingly highs and wider soundstage.


Thanks for your thoughts. Would you say that the DFC's sound quality is a step above the BTR5? I am seriously considering between this 2 devices, and would like to hear your view on these 2 devices.


----------



## psikey (Dec 23, 2019)

elindil said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. Would you say that the DFC's sound quality is a step above the BTR5? I am seriously considering between this 2 devices, and would like to hear your view on these 2 devices.



Yes, but not for 3x the price of BTR5 (DFC rrp £269). At £150 I paid 2nd hand its great.

BTR5 is more convenient over LDAC BT but of course another thing to keep charged.

If you had never heard the DFC you would be perfectly happy with the BTR5 if using it Balanced, as SE is not quite as good.

The BTR5 really is a bargain for the price.

As always it also depends in your own hearing and sound signature you prefer plus the synergy with the headphones/IEM's your using so you really should try before you but if you can, especially with the cost of the DFC. The BTR5 for ~£80 is just totally worth it.


----------



## elindil

psikey said:


> Yes, but not for 3x the price of BTR5 (DFC rrp £269). At £150 I paid 2nd hand its great.
> 
> BTR5 is more convenient over LDAC BT but of course another thing to keep charged.
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch for this comparison man. I have been scouring the internet to see if anyone can provide any insights on to sound quality between this 2 for some time. 

I think I would be happy with a BTR5 too. Just need to get hold of a balanced cable for my campfire vega it seems.

I felt that the cobalt was way too overpriced as well. However I did come across this review  , where the reviewer feels that the monolith USB DAC performs at the same level as the cobalt at 1/3 the price. So right now, my 2 options are the monolith USB DAC or the BTR5. The reviewer mentioned that he will have another in dept video comparing the 2 devices (Monolith and Cobalt). I will make a choice after that. Once again thanks man.


----------



## psikey (Dec 23, 2019)

I'm only using the BTR5 over LDAC BT, not as  wired DAC.

LDAC BT is obviously not bit-perfect for the audiophile purists but if just going on what you hear and you like ESS DAC signature you should like the BTR5.

So much better than the BTR3 I had and I also think SQ better than the EarStudio I had too.

Might be placebo/mind games but DFC at its best with Tidal MQA tracks.


----------



## Quastioner

So after seeing reviews from various sources, and being excited from quotes like.
John Darko:  " My overriding message here is that the Cobalt is way better than the sound of the analog output of my macbook pro, way better like not even close."
Sound & Picture: " Ridiculously good upgrade."   "Gives a significant sound improvement"     "Prepare yourself for something you've never heard from your phone before"
I could write way more quotes and comments like the ones from Steve Gutenbergs Youtube video like: "it makes my HD660 shine" and so on but you get the deal. 

I decided to get the Cobalt, now that I have just got a phone with only usb-c. 
I plugg it in my macbook air 2015 as a first try and can't hear any difference. I then try it on my OnePlus 7 pro and the same, can't hear any difference. 
I plugg it in and out between the 3,5 and the Cobalt sitting next to it on the macbook and I really try to see if I can hear any difference, and between the one plus and the macbook.      Between the usb-c to 3,5mm adaptor and the cobalt on the OnePlus alone.  

I can't hear any difference, none not even in eq, like the bass was more boosted or anything. 
I really try to hear if I think it is more quite in the background or more clear and can't tell at all. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just as a comparison.    The sound of the 3,5mm of my Huawei Mate 7 sounds more rich than my macbook air 2015 
It might be more eq than anything but still a clear preference towards the Huawei. I don't even have to plug in and out to hear that difference. 
Like 20% better, and I can with ease make a blind decision of which is which, from one day to another if a had to. 

The cobalt clearly amps the headphones and the light changes with different  kHz. 

My question is of course is there anything wrong with my Cobalt? 
Am I deaf?   ; )

Is there anyone whom sits on a macbook pro or air and can compare the 3,5mm to cobalt or red with their "lesser" modells like  Meze neo 99, H6, 1AM2 or similar.  200-300€
Like what difference do you hear?  How much better is it 10% 30% 50%?   is it like, "There should be no chance in hell that you can't hear the difference"?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My first post on Head-fi so I also want so say Marry Xmas.  And thanks in advance!!   = )


----------



## 1nilla

Quastioner said:


> So after seeing reviews from various sources, and being excited from quotes like.
> John Darko:  " My overriding message here is that the Cobalt is way better than the sound of the analog output of my macbook pro, way better like not even close."
> Sound & Picture: " Ridiculously good upgrade."   "Gives a significant sound improvement"     "Prepare yourself for something you've never heard from your phone before"
> I could write way more quotes and comments like the ones from Steve Gutenbergs Youtube video like: "it makes my HD660 shine" and so on but you get the deal.
> ...


Your case is really weird imo. Cobalt sounds way better than any built-in dac of any of my devices I use but I don't have macbook so cannot say anything about that. Which earphone/headphone do you use?


----------



## Quastioner

1nilla said:


> Your case is really weird imo. Cobalt sounds way better than any built-in dac of any of my devices I use but I don't have macbook so cannot say anything about that. Which earphone/headphone do you use?



Hi thanks for such a fast reply. Have tried them with beats in ears as well. (got them with a phone.) 
But mainly with B&O H6  2.nd gen.   = ) 
https://marco.org/2016/03/02/beoplay-h6-v2-review 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/b-o-beoplay-h6-2nd-generation.21678/ 
https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/8/12128152/bang-olufsen-beoplay-h6-review


----------



## kukkurovaca

Quastioner said:


> Hi thanks for such a fast reply. Have tried them with beats in ears as well. (got them with a phone.)
> But mainly with B&O H6  2.nd gen.   = )
> https://marco.org/2016/03/02/beoplay-h6-v2-review
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/b-o-beoplay-h6-2nd-generation.21678/
> https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/8/12128152/bang-olufsen-beoplay-h6-review



I haven’t heard the Cobalt but my experience with the H6 is that it’s not very sensitive to source changes. That’s one of its strengths, it’ll sound good on whatever.

but also: differences between competently implemented DACs and solid state amps is not usually a huge night and day change like going between two sets of headphones


----------



## a-LeXx (Dec 23, 2019)

Quastioner said:


> So after seeing reviews from various sources, and being excited from quotes like.
> John Darko:  " My overriding message here is that the Cobalt is way better than the sound of the analog output of my macbook pro, way better like not even close."
> Sound & Picture: " Ridiculously good upgrade."   "Gives a significant sound improvement"     "Prepare yourself for something you've never heard from your phone before"
> I could write way more quotes and comments like the ones from Steve Gutenbergs Youtube video like: "it makes my HD660 shine" and so on but you get the deal.
> ...



Apple uses pretty good DACs in all their products (Cirrus Logic, long time competitor of ESS), very neutral. ESS Sabre DACs are also pretty neutral, so, unless you are really trying hard to hear the difference, you won‘t find it. Main difference between Cirrus Logic used by Apple and ESS Sabre used in the DFC is less tonality, but how holographic is the 3d-imaging, and how ‚digital‘ is the perception of the sound, especially in the higher treble. Apple‘s implementation of Cirrus Logic sound too digital to my ears, other ways to describe it are too clinical... Unless you have a trained ear to look for such ‚minor‘ things and really good headphones, you most probably indeed won‘t notice a difference. Not because there is no, but Apple‘s products are already close to ‚very good‘ in terms of fidelity, any significant deviation - and that would be colored sound. And Cirrus Logic and ESS Sabre have more in common than they are different, they have very similar sound signature...


----------



## megabigeye

Quastioner said:


> So after seeing reviews from various sources, and being excited from quotes like.
> John Darko:  " My overriding message here is that the Cobalt is way better than the sound of the analog output of my macbook pro, way better like not even close."
> Sound & Picture: " Ridiculously good upgrade."   "Gives a significant sound improvement"     "Prepare yourself for something you've never heard from your phone before"
> I could write way more quotes and comments like the ones from Steve Gutenbergs Youtube video like: "it makes my HD660 shine" and so on but you get the deal.
> ...


I haven't heard the DFC, but I doubt that you're deaf. I once compared my DFR to my 2014 MacBook Air and could not discern a difference. There is a difference between the DFR and any phone I've tried it with (HTC One M8, Essential PH-1, Samsung S9) and the DFR was always better. I've read that that era of MacBook Air was particularly good sounding.


----------



## chanman96

Just bought a cobalt during Christmas for my modest setup, iPhone 8 and Shure 215s. Overall, very happy with it. It gets to higher volumes but I don’t really care much about that. The biggest difference is the separation it clears up between the instruments. Didn’t know that was possible with my cheap headphones. Sound from instruments sound much more distinct. Can’t wait to find a good deal on quality iems to see what that can do.


----------



## 3Putter

megabigeye said:


> I think what you're calling "milking the customer," AudioQuest would probably call "retaining sales" and "not going bankrupt."
> 
> Product pricing is a tricky business and there are books and business school classes dedicated to it.  Part of the problem is that, if they had a lower price for the Cobalt, the DFC's sales will start to eat into the sales of the DFR; then they have to lower the price of the Red, then its sales will cannibalize the Black's sales.  So they either raise the price of the top tier models so that it's meaningfully distinguishable from the lower models, or they risk losing sales of other models.
> Then they could, say, drop the Black altogether and lower the price of the Red to fill somewhere closer to that price slot.  Then what happens?  Then, for new customers especially, people don't only see a $200 device that's now available for $100—a bargain— they also see a $100 device that used to sell for the absurd price of $200— a ripoff— and this image extends to the rest of the company's product portfolio.  Things are further complicated by the fact that now the DFC no longer costs 50% more than the DFR, it costs 100% more.
> ...


I suppose it could be some of that happening. But one might think that AQ has in their labs trained ears listening to the competition. They know what they have and how it performs. It's demand they're after to help maximize profits. If they can sell something for $300 that costs them $25 that sounds like impressive mark-up. But what no one here knows is they spent on developing the product, marketing the product, and their overhead for labor, faclities, insurance, utilities, benefits/payroll, the list goes on...


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## 3Putter (Jan 13, 2020)

Sotiris said:


> For me what i hate most is marketing . I love my DFR , i use it every day but when you launch a new product and you try to create the need to buy it by comparing to the  previous one which suddenly is not the super duper product you used to praise in all the reviews, then you dont respect me as a customer and you just want to sell . Not all companies are like that.


What are you talking about? Of course they are. I don't care if you're buying golf clubs, cars, clothes, DAC/Amps it's all the same game. Make some money. I believe AQ does one heckuva job putting out products that are amazing at affordable prices. You want to poo poo them for trying to make a better product, which I'm sure it is, and make good money while doing so? Stifle innovation by making profits a bad thing and see what you get.


----------



## Sotiris

3Putter said:


> What are you talking about? Of course they are. I don't care if you're buying golf clubs, cars clothes, DAC/Amps it's all the same game. Make some money. I believe AQ does one heckuva job putting out products that are amazing at affordable prices. You want to poo poo them for trying to make a better product, which I'm sure it is, and make good money while doing so? Stifle innovation my making profits a bad thing and see what you get.



You can understand yourself?


----------



## 3Putter

Sotiris said:


> You can understand yourself?


No, I get the point of AQ, the DFC, and people not wanting to pay for what something is worth. I deal with customers every day in my business. They think I'm rolling in a pool of money - I'm not. To operate a service business that manufactures or repairs anything of value you have overhead and costs that the typical anti-profit person doesn't understand. What I didn't understand was your viewpoint. I did see you're ESL so perhaps translation is the issue. Somehow I doubt it.


----------



## 3Putter

Gus141 said:


> Anyone want to address the elephant in the room: the poor objective test results from Archimago?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html


You just had to post this, didn't you! LOL. I'm still on the black 1.5 and think it sounds good enough for my limited time to listen. Makes no sense to spend $300 for something that isn't much better.


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## psikey (Jan 15, 2020)

3Putter said:


> You just had to post this, didn't you! LOL. I'm still on the black 1.5 and think it sounds good enough for my limited time to listen. Makes no sense to spend $300 for something that isn't much better.


Thanks, just read the post but having had a DFR and now a DFC something was changed to make it sound better to my ears. Not a big jump like black to red. I only paid ~£30 more for my DFC as I sold my DFR for £120 and bought used DFC for £150 so worth the update for me.

Saying all this, I'm currently enjoying my new £75 Fiio BTR5 balanced over LDAC BT with my SE846's. Now that is a bargain! Would never have thought BT could come close to wired.


----------



## Sotiris

There are no reviewers , just advertisers.


----------



## 3Putter

Sotiris said:


> There are no reviewers , just advertisers.


Boy, I bet you're a barrel of laughs at a party. Geez


----------



## 3Putter

psikey said:


> Thanks, just read the post but having had a DFR and now a DFC something was changed to make it sound better to my ears. Not a big jump like black to red. I only paid ~£30 more for my DFC as I sold my DFR for £120 and bought used DFC for £150 so worth the update for me.
> 
> Saying all this, I'm currently enjoying my new £75 Fiio BTR5 balanced over LDAC BT with my SE846's. Now that is a bargain! Would never have thought BT could come close to wired.


I've got the ESS EarStudio which I like. It's a buggy device some days but overall decent. I'm looking at the Q5s from FiiO as well. Enjoy! I'm 3PuttFever and I approved this message.


----------



## psikey

3Putter said:


> I've got the ESS EarStudio which I like. It's a buggy device some days but overall decent. I'm looking at the Q5s from FiiO as well. Enjoy! I'm 3PuttFever and I approved this message.


Had the EarStudio but wasn't happy with build/quality/materials for the money or control buttons. Sounded great too, but BTR5 all-round nicer IMO.


----------



## 1nilla

3Putter said:


> You just had to post this, didn't you! LOL. I'm still on the black 1.5 and think it sounds good enough for my limited time to listen. Makes no sense to spend $300 for something that isn't much better.


Bruh. You use your ears to listen to it not by listening to those graph, don't you?. Just slightly change in graph will make a big difference in its sound. I owned both DFR and DFC. I dln't like DFR much to be honest but I love DFC. It sounds waaay better to my ears. Worth every penny upgrade from DFR to DFC.


----------



## Dan279

Just thought I would share my own personal experiences. I decided to go all in and buy all three dragonfly’s and the chord mojo to do a critical listening comparison of all 4 for my two main daily’s (Shure se846 and 1More Quad drivers). I also play hi res music from Amazon Music unlimited Ultra HD

Dragonfly Black

For the money, this DAC is very impressive. Definitely the best bang for your buck in terms of cost/improvement. Really steps up the music but it’s a very neutral sound signature so nothing really stands out. 

Dragonfly Red

A marked improvement on the Black as the bass, treble and Mids are very audibly improved and more forward sounding to my ears. Soundstage is better than on the black but not amazing. It is Bass heavy but still an enjoyable listen. 

Dragonfly Cobalt

Not as bass heavy as the Red but everything just sounds better. Much more crisp, detailed and the soundstage is incredible. In my opinion a worthy competitor to the Mojo and worth the steep price against the Red. It just sounds so much more pleasant. Nothing is too harsh but everything just sounds incredible. 

Chord Mojo

This is the best of the 4 hands down. Noticed the biggest difference using my Shure se846 but the soundstage was better, instrument separation was incredible, Bass, Mids and Treble all sounded impeccable with nothing muddying over anything else. I couldn’t really hear any difference between the Mojo and the Coablt using my 1More’s or even using my Sennheiser Momentum 3 over ears. Seems the Mojo comes into its own with high end IEM’s like the se846. 

Conclusion

The dragonfly’s are all amazing with the Cobalt definitely being the best of the three and considering the transportability and ease of use with it not needing to be charged to use, I would say the Cobalt is the Best Buy of the 3. But if you have the spare money and you do a lot of listening at a desktop or not moving, the Mojo really is just that bit better than the Cobalt. If money is tight, the Black is definitely worth the money. But if you’re going to spend a lot of money on a DAC, I would save that little bit more for the Cobalt over the Red. 

I hope this helps anyone considering any of the options. I have since returned the Black and Red and plan to keep the Mojo and Cobalt. Mojo to use at my desktop, the Cobalt for going out and about.


----------



## psikey (Jan 17, 2020)

I didn't find sound stage wide with Mojo and DFC better. Hugo2 still best I've heard, but if you want value for money as a wired DAC/AMP or LDAC BT with balanced support too then try a BTR5.

I"ve sold all my other stuff now and just use BTR5/SE846 balanced with my S10+ (1TB storage).


----------



## cpaulik

Just got a Cobalt. After a few hours of listening I think it is a clear improvement over the Red. Everything sounds more relaxed and three dimensional. I've also got a BTR5 recently. It is really nice and convenient. Sounds good but the Cobalt sounds better to me in every way. 

I've been using LDAC on the BTR5 listening all three devices with Andromeda SS


----------



## psikey

cpaulik said:


> Just got a Cobalt. After a few hours of listening I think it is a clear improvement over the Red. Everything sounds more relaxed and three dimensional. I've also got a BTR5 recently. It is really nice and convenient. Sounds good but the Cobalt sounds better to me in every way.
> 
> I've been using LDAC on the BTR5 listening all three devices with Andromeda SS



And I just sold my Cobalt because BTR5 as a wired DAC sounds as good (to my ears) and also best BT LDAC audio I've heard too. (With SE846's)


----------



## cpaulik

psikey said:


> And I just sold my Cobalt because BTR5 as a wired DAC sounds as good (to my ears) and also best BT LDAC audio I've heard too. (With SE846's)


I do understand that decision. I think the Cobalt sounds better when listening closely but if I really get any benefit during regular use is not yet clear. The BTR5 is more versatile for a third of the cost which is incredible value.

Do you think there is a difference between BTR5 wired and over bluetooth? I've not yet had time to compare the two modes.


----------



## psikey

cpaulik said:


> I do understand that decision. I think the Cobalt sounds better when listening closely but if I really get any benefit during regular use is not yet clear. The BTR5 is more versatile for a third of the cost which is incredible value.
> 
> Do you think there is a difference between BTR5 wired and over bluetooth? I've not yet had time to compare the two modes.



Yes. I meant wired compared to Cobalt, not ovet BT.


----------



## soundperfection

psikey said:


> Thanks, just read the post but having had a DFR and now a DFC something was changed to make it sound better to my ears. Not a big jump like black to red. I only paid ~£30 more for my DFC as I sold my DFR for £120 and bought used DFC for £150 so worth the update for me.
> 
> Saying all this, I'm currently enjoying my new £75 Fiio BTR5 balanced over LDAC BT with my SE846's. Now that is a bargain! Would never have thought BT could come close to wired.



how does 846 sound with btr5 versus DFC. Any hissing with any of them.


----------



## psikey (Jan 24, 2020)

soundperfection said:


> how does 846 sound with btr5 versus DFC. Any hissing with any of them.


None at all either balanced or SE. I've now sold my DFC as perfectly happy with BTR5 both wired and via LDAC BT.

No hiss with DFC.


----------



## 118900

Dan279 said:


> Just thought I would share my own personal experiences. I decided to go all in and buy all three dragonfly’s and the chord mojo to do a critical listening comparison of all 4 for my two main daily’s (Shure se846 and 1More Quad drivers). I also play hi res music from Amazon Music unlimited Ultra HD
> 
> Dragonfly Black
> 
> ...


I haven't heard the DFB but I had the DFR before replacing it with the DFC and I agree with your conclusions, everything just sounds better on the DFC (also reviewed using both SE846 and Audeze LCD-4z.

Don't have the Mojo as I prefer the form factor of the DFC for travelling. Use a Hugo2 to power the LCD4zs normally

If (as many say) the mojo comes "relatively" close to the Hugo2 then I would agree to spend the extra on that (consider that the price was reduced by about £100 a while ago) unless, like me, the form factor, charging and apparent interference with cables is an issue. I prefer the portability of the DFC and so stick to that.


----------



## efejoao

Can someone tell me how the Cobalt compares to the Monolith USB Dac and the Ikko Zerda?

There was a guy on youtube saying that the Monolith just sounds as good as Cobalt for 1/4 of the price?

I did listen to the Fiio BT5 vs the Cobalt and the Cobalt sounds way better for my ears at least. But the price... nope.


----------



## ercalamar (Feb 2, 2020)

Hi All,

I have bought the DFC but the best headphones I own are the sony wh-1000xm3 (programming in a noisy environment). I have noticed that these headphones are electronically tuned, they sound weird (=dull, dark) with the noise cancelling turned off so I am thinking about getting something open that takes advantage of the of the cobalt (there is some improvement already but...). It seems like the beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro or maybe the t1 could be good choices. Regarding this I have seen that the t1's impedance is 600 ohms. Should I discard this model (as a combination with DFC) because of the high impedance?

On the other had I like analytical flat/natural sound. Am I looking in the right place with this headphones?

I have noticed that when using the Google Play Music under Android with the cobalt it has a weird electronic distortion everytime I change to a new song. Only happens with this player. Anyone else getting this?


----------



## efejoao

ercalamar said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have bought the DFC but the best headphones I own are the sony wh-1000xm3 (programming in a noisy environment). I have noticed that these headphones are electronically tuned, they sound weird (=dull, dark) with the noise cancelling turned off so I am thinking about getting something open that takes advantage of the of the cobalt (there is some improvement already but...). It seems like the beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro or maybe the t1 could be good choices. Regarding this I have seen that the t1's impedance is 600 ohms. Should I discard this model (as a combination with DFC) because of the high impedance?
> 
> ...



The Sony WH-1000XM3 works best using its own DAC/AMP. You will not have good results if you don't use its own DAC/AMP (Turning the headphone off). I can tell you that because I have it and tested it throughly. You better have another headphone to used with the Cobalt, otherwise, it is meaningless to have it.


----------



## PureViewer4t1 (Feb 3, 2020)

ercalamar said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have bought the DFC but the best headphones I own are the sony wh-1000xm3 (programming in a noisy environment). I have noticed that these headphones are electronically tuned, they sound weird (=dull, dark) with the noise cancelling turned off so I am thinking about getting something open that takes advantage of the of the cobalt (there is some improvement already but...). It seems like the beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro or maybe the t1 could be good choices. Regarding this I have seen that the t1's impedance is 600 ohms. Should I discard this model (as a combination with DFC) because of the high impedance?
> 
> ...


T1 needs a really high-end amp to shine. Even Mojo cannot drive it properly. You probably won't have volume issues but the sound would be meh. From Beyer I can suggest DT1990, T90, DT880 (not the 600-ohm Pro model of course!). Amiron is another good option but not as flat as the above models.


----------



## Hddad70 (Feb 7, 2020)

These are my initial impressions of the Monolith USB DAC and why I decided to purchase it.
I remember sitting in front of my fire place listening to The Hoff Ensemble Acoustic Project with my DFR (and a few other nicer DAC's) swapping back and forth
between my Andros, U-12's, Angie II's and Django's. Unfortunately, my bliss was overshadowed by the reality that my business was failing. I was forced to sell everything. I knew it would be a while before I could afford to buy another high-end IEM or DAC so I just lost interest.
I was convinced there was no way I could ever be satisfied with a budget set-up after owning high-end IEM's and DAC's. I did have one last pair of less expensive IEM's I had held onto for use primarily as on-stage, live performance monitors. I'm a drummer for a band and I had to have something.
Slowly, I began to regain interest and began researching budget IEM/DAC combos. With a budget of only $400.00, I went into what my wife calls ''obsessive research'' mode. I settled on the Fiio Fh5's and the Monolith USB DAC. So, after spending hours and hours listening to the DFR paired with IEM's I spent thousands and thousands of
dollars on only to have to start all over again with a pair of $250 (actually only paid $159 on eBay) budget IEM's and a $99 ''plasticky'' budget DAC, where do I find myself?
Sitting right back in front of my fireplace experiencing pure audio bliss. Well, almost. I don't think I'm hearing everything this DAC has to offer because of the limitations of my
FH5's. That being said the Fiio FH5's are great IEM's, especially for their price. The frequency range is overall pretty balanced, they have great sub and mid-bass, precise
imaging and the lower treble extends nicely. They also work pretty good as live performance IEM's
I'm getting some better IEM's in about a month in hopes it will bring out all this DAC has to offer. I will post a more extensive review then.
I will add, the build quality is not as good as the DFR but is good enough. And, when you
consider what's inside, the value is through the roof. So, should you buy it? Yes, definitely. Especially if your on a budget.
Should you buy it instead of the DFR or the DFC? I don't know yet. Not until I have my new IEM's.
Keep this in mind though, the Monolith USB DAC has the newer ESS Sabre ES9601 and supports all sample rates up to 32-bit, 384kHz.
Given these impressive specs and the lower cost, it's surprising there isn't more buzz around this DAC. And it's even more surprising that not one reviewer from any of the more reputable websites or YouTube channels has done a thorough comparison/review of this product. I can only speculate as to why that is. I don't think my little upcoming review will do this DAC justice. My hope is a more reputable reviewer or at least someone with better equipment can do a comprehensive, objective review/comparison with the DFR, DFC or any other DAC for that matter. Well, thats it I guess. Anybody?


----------



## ercalamar

efejoao said:


> The Sony WH-1000XM3 works best using its own DAC/AMP. You will not have good results if you don't use its own DAC/AMP (Turning the headphone off). I can tell you that because I have it and tested it throughly. You better have another headphone to used with the Cobalt, otherwise, it is meaningless to have it.



Thanks. I was looking into getting something without noise canceling. I noticed kind of a void in the sound with noise canceling on.


----------



## ercalamar

PureViewer4t1 said:


> T1 needs a really high-end amp to shine. Even Mojo cannot drive it properly. You probably won't have volume issues but the sound would be meh. From Beyer I can suggest DT1990, T90, DT880 (not the 600-ohm Pro model of course!). Amiron is another good option but not as flat as the above models.



Thanks. I considered DT 1990 Pro, Sennheiser 660s and Hifiman Sundara. I got a pair of Sundaras. I can not get a pair to try them so I am going blind based on reviews only. Let's hope they last. I have seen people concerned with this.


----------



## maserluv

Hi Haden2866,

Just curious, can the iPhone power the DFC with ease? Some reported that it will show "excessive current" with prior DFs.

And long it drain the iPhone battery fairly? How long does the iPhone last using the combo?

Regards Wayne





Haden2866 said:


> I've been living with Dragonfly Cobalt (DFC) daily now for a month or more.
> My primary use case is pretty simple - I use it hooked up to an iPhone 8 Plus playing Tidal, on- and offline, HiFi and Master.
> I happen to have an IFi Audio iSilencer so I have left that in the chain - at some point I will take it out and see if I miss it. Lightning to USB is a silver cable by Lavri Cables - this includes the Apple CCK chipset so only one cable is required.
> A strip of 3M Commander (like Velcro) fastens DFC, iSilencer and cable to the back of the phone - it's removable and very discrete, which is a consideration for me; this is a work phone. No issues with DFC build quality for me.
> ...


----------



## Satir

It's 2020, not 2015. No support for higher resolution files is stupid. Other devices out there to purchase.


----------



## Haden2866

maserluv said:


> Hi Haden2866,
> 
> Just curious, can the iPhone power the DFC with ease? Some reported that it will show "excessive current" with prior DFs.
> 
> ...


I can only share my experience with an iPhone 8Plus which has been fine - I don't think I have had a single instance of a power mismatch pop-up.
DFC was designed with iPhone use as a design parameter, from what I understand.

On another note, sadly my lovely Lavri single-strand silver Lightning-USB CCK replacement cable suffered from excessive strain, being bent in a tight U and fastened to the back of the phone, and is now on my bench. I am sure that it would have been taken care of had I sent it back, but I chose to open it for DIY repair to learn from.
The Mk2 (I think) Apple CCK sounds terrible in comparison - the difference between my wanting to listen more vs. not being bothered.

I have since been using the supplied Dragontail (AQ Carbon OFC cable) with my daughter's cheap DAP. The cable, in my opinion, is taking ages to sound right - congested at first and lacking in air and any kind of sparkle. Where it will end up, performance-wise, compared to the Lavri, and how much is source-dependent I can't say.


----------



## Haden2866

maserluv said:


> Hi Haden2866,
> 
> Just curious, can the iPhone power the DFC with ease? Some reported that it will show "excessive current" with prior DFs.
> 
> ...


in terms of battery life, can't say for sure (new phone so can't benchmark properly before DFC) but nothing to be concerned about, I would say - the CCK chipset gatekeeps against anything with more than a tiny current draw. IPhone 8Plus is mshoosive, mind you, well into phablet territory.


----------



## maserluv

Thanks Haden2866 for your opinion. I will go for it. Just got a B&O H6 (Gen 1) via Mojo as Desktop Listening.

Will get the CCK with the Cobalt for iPad listening!

cant Wait.,

Regards Wayne



Haden2866 said:


> in terms of battery life, can't say for sure (new phone so can't benchmark properly before DFC) but nothing to be concerned about, I would say - the CCK chipset gatekeeps against anything with more than a tiny current draw. IPhone 8Plus is mshoosive, mind you, well into phablet territory.


----------



## Deolum

Picking up my new grado gs1000e from a hifi store i saw the dfc and they were so kind to lend it to me so i can test it.

It's really small and sounds very good overall. In comparison to mojo it sounds warmer, more narrow with less soundstage, less separation, more bass and treble.

Beyerdynamic 770 250 ohm:
i don't like this combination with the dfc. Beyerpeak gets really unpleasent. You get more treble and more bass while decreasing soundstage but it's still more in your face than mojo. Not my taste.

Grado gs1000e:
My endgame headphone with chord mojo so there's no competition since i love this combination so much and i wouldn't trade it for any other setup.

Inear Prohile 8:
Reason to keep the dfc. The prophile 8 sounds extremly neutral by itself. With chord mojo it has better separation, better soundstage but sounds really neutral. I like this combination to hear classical music at a really really low volume in bed because you still hear all the details. With dfc it sounds more intimate, warmer, less detailed but gets more punch, bass and sounds really more fun with mainstream music and especially eletronic music. It's like back in school when you got your first iems and didn't care about such crap as soundquality but just enjoyed the music. Overall i like the pp8 with the dfc more than with mojo since it gives him some character.  I find myself to hear at low volume with mojo but at louder volume with the dfc to make up for the loss of details and soundstage. Together with the small size it's perfect for me since i now can use this as my portable.


----------



## ercalamar

Deolum said:


> Picking up my new grado gs1000e from a hifi store i saw the dfc and they were so kind to lend it to me so i can test it.
> 
> It's really small and sounds very good overall. In comparison to mojo it sounds warmer, more narrow with less soundstage, less separation, more bass and treble.
> 
> ...




What are you using to play under Android or iOS?


----------



## Deolum (Feb 15, 2020)

ercalamar said:


> What are you using to play under Android or iOS?


Amazon music HD and Ipad. Android sounds really bad in my experience and sadly iphone sounds worse than ipad as well.

Edit: actually dfc on iphone with prophile 8 doesn‘t sound that good. Just tried it. volume steps are too big too so makes no sense to use it as portable rig. On ipad it‘s fine though.


----------



## ercalamar

Deolum said:


> Amazon music HD and Ipad. Android sounds really bad in my experience and sadly iphone sounds worse than ipad as well.
> 
> Edit: actually dfc on iphone with prophile 8 doesn‘t sound that good. Just tried it. volume steps are too big too so makes no sense to use it as portable rig. On ipad it‘s fine though.



I am using Poweramp and Neutron under Android. I think that sometimes Android has issues with the timing transfering data through USB (app is not getting enough CPU time) and it produces weird metallic/electronic sounds otherwise sound is pretty good. 

I was expecting to be able to compare impressions on the different sound these two players produce. To me it looks like Neutron has more defined instruments and Poweramp better sound stage, more spacious.


----------



## Deolum

ercalamar said:


> I am using Poweramp and Neutron under Android. I think that sometimes Android has issues with the timing transfering data through USB (app is not getting enough CPU time) and it produces weird metallic/electronic sounds otherwise sound is pretty good.
> 
> I was expecting to be able to compare impressions on the different sound these two players produce. To me it looks like Neutron has more defined instruments and Poweramp better sound stage, more spacious.


Yeah something must be wrong in android in the usb transferring to the dac but i don't know what. I'm generally surprised that the source doesn't get much talk in hifi scene because the consensus seems to be that no matter what you plug your dac in it sounds the same. But whether i plug my dac into an ipad, iphone, macbook, android phone, windows or linux all sounds very different to me. The difference is much more noticable to me than the difference between 48 khz, 96 khz or dsd which are the things most people talk about. But i would take the sound of an entry headphone with a normal dac out of a macbookpro or an ipad everytime over the sound of a utopia with a chord dave out of a normal android phone.


----------



## Drog

Check out the USB Audio Player app for Android phones.  It uses its own USB driver to connect directly to your DAC through the USB port.  Other audio player use Android's native USB driver to connect to the USB device, and that limits audio quality.


----------



## GregBe

Hey guys, Just picked up a pair of Audioquest Night Owls. Looking at either a Dragonfly Red or Dragonfly Cobalt to pair with these out of my phone. The form factor of the Dragonfly's are really important for me to be able to stick my phone in my pocket as I walk around the house, otherwise might have considered the Mojo or something similar. From what I understand, a little different sound signature on each. Anyone have any experience with either the Red or Cobalt with the NOs? Thanks! Greg


----------



## 118900

maserluv said:


> Hi Haden2866,
> 
> Just curious, can the iPhone power the DFC with ease? Some reported that it will show "excessive current" with prior DFs.
> 
> ...



I’m using it with an iPhone XR and have no problems. It plays louder (as does the DFR) with its 2.1 v output than the iPhone with the Apple dongle and battery consumption is even


----------



## 118900

Deolum said:


> Amazon music HD and Ipad. Android sounds really bad in my experience and sadly iphone sounds worse than ipad as well.
> 
> Edit: actually dfc on iphone with prophile 8 doesn‘t sound that good. Just tried it. volume steps are too big too so makes no sense to use it as portable rig. On ipad it‘s fine though.


You can do fine adjustments by long pressing the volume on iPhone


----------



## Deolum

juansan said:


> You can do fine adjustments by long pressing the volume on iPhone


Oh thanks lol. Didn't know that. Lifelong android user. But i already returned the Iphone. Wanted to give it a try but i'll stick to android. I think in terms of volume adjustments IFi IEMatch could also help. Bought one for my Ipad and DFC and i think it sounds better but could ofc be placebo. But the volume steps are even finer now ofc.


----------



## 118900

Deolum said:


> Oh thanks lol. Didn't know that. Lifelong android user. But i already returned the Iphone. Wanted to give it a try but i'll stick to android. I think in terms of volume adjustments IFi IEMatch could also help. Bought one for my Ipad and DFC and i think it sounds better but could ofc be placebo. But the volume steps are even finer now ofc.


I only found it out because someone posted on here I didn’t know myself until a couple of months ago


----------



## maserluv (Feb 28, 2020)

& then HERE she is...






Gonna hook it up tonite for a listening pleasure!


----------



## maserluv

Hi guys,

Is there a way to dim down (OR OFF) the light of the dragonfly logo?

Im surprise that the cobalt does not consume much juice from my iPad battery and yet its ability to drive headphone.

Kudos to Audioquest for this FINE product!

Regards Wayne


----------



## drummguy26

So after reading this thread thoroughly I was about to click "Purchase" for the Cobalt, but then I saw information on a new USB DAC (a.k.a. Earmen Sparrow - https://www.moon-audio.com/earmen-sparrow-usb-dac.html) that is supposed to be released soon which sports the latest es9281pro chip whereas the cobalt is using the es9038q2m chip.

So now Im torn.... I dont know if I should just get the cobalt or wait for the sparrow and see how it stacks up against the cobalt. I also understand that its not necessarily about what kind of chip is in the DAC, but how its implemented is what matters. Does anyone know what the main differences are between these two chips?


----------



## a-LeXx

drummguy26 said:


> So after reading this thread thoroughly I was about to click "Purchase" for the Cobalt, but then I saw information on a new USB DAC (a.k.a. Earmen Sparrow - https://www.moon-audio.com/earmen-sparrow-usb-dac.html) that is supposed to be released soon which sports the latest es9281pro chip whereas the cobalt is using the es9038q2m chip.
> 
> So now Im torn.... I dont know if I should just get the cobalt or wait for the sparrow and see how it stacks up against the cobalt. I also understand that its not necessarily about what kind of chip is in the DAC, but how its implemented is what matters. Does anyone know what the main differences are between these two chips?


That es9281pro sounds interesting. I expect it to drain the battery even far less than a DFC/DFR, as this is a one-chip solution. That single chip already includes a USB transceiver and a headphone amp, no additional active components are required... The only remaining question is how it will sound...


----------



## drummguy26

Agreed. Only time will tell how this DAC stacks up against the cobalt. It’s a very interesting solution, and it’s $100 less. Not sure if price is relative to performance compared to the cobalt in this case but it could be a serious competitor if it sounds as good if not better.


----------



## zikarus (Feb 29, 2020)

The ESS 9281 Pro chip is also used in the Hilidac Beam 2 and the Zorloo Ztella dongle.

First measurements of the latter were not that favourable https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lla-mqa-phone-headphone-adapter-review.11785/

I own the Zorloo Ztella and am nonetheless quite happy with it. The first impressions soundwise are totally ok for me especially regarding its very good form factor. It is extremely compact and therefore very easy and comfortable to use with my Galaxy Note 9.

And the (still quite seldom) MQA capability is a nice addon if one uses the Tidal service.

If looking for the best sound quality possible a device with an ESS 9038 chip might still be the better option imo.

Whether the Cobalt is worth the higher price tag? I doubt that, though I liked it, when I once had the opportunity to listen to it. I guess I will instead buy an E1DA 9038S and D (which both lack MQA though).


----------



## drummguy26 (Feb 29, 2020)

zikarus said:


> The ESS 9281 Pro chip is also used in the Hilidac Beam 2 and the Zorloo Ztella dongle.
> 
> First measurements of the latter were not that favourable https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lla-mqa-phone-headphone-adapter-review.11785/
> 
> ...



Ah I see. I didnt know these DACs existed... but I think I’m just going to go ahead and get the cobalt. I’m a fan of the dragonfly red’s sound signature and i hear the cobalt tales that and improves upon it. I also have the ifi purifier, silencer, idefender with ifi external power as well as the ibasso pb3 mockingbird amp that I use all in my chain with a balanced output to give me amazing results. So I think I’ll be happy with the cobalt as it fits nicely in my setup.


----------



## a-LeXx

zikarus said:


> The ESS 9281 Pro chip is also used in the Hilidac Beam 2 and the Zorloo Ztella dongle.
> 
> First measurements of the latter were not that favourable https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lla-mqa-phone-headphone-adapter-review.11785/
> 
> ...



I don‘t get why you are saying that Zorloo Ztella‘s measurements were not favorable on audioscience forum. Actually it measured very good for a dongle, and even got a rare Amir‘s recommendation!
And that form factor is different from Earmen, I guess that uses better passive components, e.g. better caps...

Anyway, even that dongle provides more juice (2 times more) than a DFR/DFC. Plenty for such a tiny device!
As always, how a device sounds will depend on actual implementation, filter choice and so on... All Sabre DACs are very flexible in that department...


----------



## zikarus (Mar 1, 2020)

a-LeXx said:


> I don‘t get why you are saying that Zorloo Ztella‘s measurements were not favorable on audioscience forum. Actually it measured very good for a dongle, and even got a rare Amir‘s recommendation!
> And that form factor is different from Earmen, I guess that uses better passive components, e.g. better caps...
> 
> Anyway, even that dongle provides more juice (2 times more) than a DFR/DFC. Plenty for such a tiny device!
> As always, how a device sounds will depend on actual implementation, filter choice and so on... All Sabre DACs are very flexible in that department...


The Hidisz S8 and E1DA measured really good for a dongle. If you have a look at the SINAD overview chart in the review you can see the Ztella in the orange section while some dongles are listed in the better green and blue sections... Jitter and dynamic range were also not the best.

So measurement wise the Ztella is definitely not one of the best dongles Amir has measured so far.


----------



## a-LeXx

zikarus said:


> The Hidisz S8 and E1DA measured really good for a dongle. If you have a look at the SINAD overview chart in the review you can see the Ztella in the orange section while some dongles are listed in the better green and blue sections... Jitter and dynamic range were also not the best.
> 
> So measurement wise the Ztella is definitely not one of the best dongles Amir has measured so far.



Hidisz S8 and E1DA are full-size dongles comparable to DFR/DFC, Ztella is one in a size of an apple dongle, not comparable at all. In turn, Ztella offers much more power than usual micro-dongles, even more than a full-size DFR... Of course the numbers can‘t be perfect with this power and size, because proper filtering to improve SNR/ Dynamic range requires space... Even with it‘s tiny size Ztella offers better numbers than DFR/DFC, with surprisingly even more power...

That‘s also what Amir said, that‘s why his full recommendation for the product. And I guess future full-size dongles based on the same ESS chip will offer better filtering, with better numbers (not that the numbers of Ztella were really bad)


----------



## drummguy26

So actually, I changed my mind. I did NOT go with the cobalt. I instead went for the ifi xdsd. I already have the Dragonfly Red and felt it was time to try something a bit different. Also I thought that the cobalt wasnt going to be a huge jump from the Red enough to justify a $300 price tag. Also, the xdsd has S-Balanced mode which is a 3.5mm output jack that can delineate between a balanced connection or SE connection. Pretty excited to hear the Balanced output on it, which the Cobalt does not have... and all my headphones are primarily using Balanced TRRS cables. I would have gone with the micro idsd BL, but it was $200 too much for me over the xdsd, so this is compromise.


----------



## gazzington

So what are good iems to pair with the cobalt out of my phone?


----------



## 118900

gazzington said:


> So what are good iems to pair with the cobalt out of my phone?


It really depends entirely on your musical taste and the sound signature you are looking for. 

Technically speaking the only issue would be the electrical damping factor which recommends that the output impedance should not exceed 1/8th of the nominal impedance of the headphones. The output impedance of the DFC is of 0.65 ohms therefore even wanting to round up to a whole number of 1 ohm so long as you stick to headphones with a minimum nominal impedance of 8ohms you should be good to go.

 I have been using the DFC with the Shure 846s (which have a nominal impedance of only 9 ohms) for the last few months and have never heard any distortion etc.


----------



## 118900

drummguy26 said:


> So actually, I changed my mind. I did NOT go with the cobalt. I instead went for the ifi xdsd. I already have the Dragonfly Red and felt it was time to try something a bit different. Also I thought that the cobalt wasnt going to be a huge jump from the Red enough to justify a $300 price tag. Also, the xdsd has S-Balanced mode which is a 3.5mm output jack that can delineate between a balanced connection or SE connection. Pretty excited to hear the Balanced output on it, which the Cobalt does not have... and all my headphones are primarily using Balanced TRRS cables. I would have gone with the micro idsd BL, but it was $200 too much for me over the xdsd, so this is compromise.


having owned both the DFR and the DFC, so long as the form factor was not a serious issue, I think you made the right decision as I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. Knowing I could sell the DFR on, I bought the DFC and I decided to sell the DFR and keep the DFC as I believed it to be slightly better, but I would not own both of them as they are too similar.


----------



## drummguy26 (Mar 4, 2020)

juansan said:


> having owned both the DFR and the DFC, so long as the form factor was not a serious issue, I think you made the right decision as I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. Knowing I could sell the DFR on, I bought the DFC and I decided to sell the DFR and keep the DFC as I believed it to be slightly better, but I would not own both of them as they are too similar.



Awesome. Glad to get confirmation that I made the right choice. lol. And after spending a few days with the xdsd, Im loving it so far and am very glad with my decision to get it. The ONLY gripe I have with it is that the lower mids are slightly recessed but not lacking detail at all. Just pushed back a bit. If anything, I've heard things in the mids with the xdsd that I haven't heard before with the DFR. Which is pretty amazing. Everything about this DAC/Amp is super smooth and beautiful. Soundstage on it, although not the biggest I've heard, is definitely a huge jump from the DFR. And this is only using a SE cable. Can't wait to hear the difference with my balanced cable once I get my adapter for the 3.5mm output.

@juansan I was thinking to eventually replace my DFR with the Cobalt at some point because I've heard it has wider soundstage and more detail than the DFR. Since you have both, is that the impression that you got? Or is it not worth replacing at all?


----------



## max232

gazzington said:


> So what are good iems to pair with the cobalt out of my phone?


Blon BL-03. They're as good as any. Spring for a fancy cable if you must, but it's not going to improve the sound, just the looks.


----------



## max232

GregBe said:


> Hey guys, Just picked up a pair of Audioquest Night Owls. Looking at either a Dragonfly Red or Dragonfly Cobalt to pair with these out of my phone. The form factor of the Dragonfly's are really important for me to be able to stick my phone in my pocket as I walk around the house, otherwise might have considered the Mojo or something similar. From what I understand, a little different sound signature on each. Anyone have any experience with either the Red or Cobalt with the NOs? Thanks! Greg


I have the Red as well as a es100. While I prefer the sound of the Sabre dac, the es100 has a self contained battery as well as controls on the device. That may be appealing to you if you're going to let it hang from your pocket as I do. I use the Red mainly at home.


----------



## 118900

drummguy26 said:


> Awesome. Glad to get confirmation that I made the right choice. lol. And after spending a few days with the xdsd, Im loving it so far and am very glad with my decision to get it. The ONLY gripe I have with it is that the lower mids are slightly recessed but not lacking detail at all. Just pushed back a bit. If anything, I've heard things in the mids with the xdsd that I haven't heard before with the DFR. Which is pretty amazing. Everything about this DAC/Amp is super smooth and beautiful. Soundstage on it, although not the biggest I've heard, is definitely a huge jump from the DFR. And this is only using a SE cable. Can't wait to hear the difference with my balanced cable once I get my adapter for the 3.5mm output.
> 
> @juansan I was thinking to eventually replace my DFR with the Cobalt at some point because I've heard it has wider soundstage and more detail than the DFR. Since you have both, is that the impression that you got? Or is it not worth replacing at all?


To be honest I don't remember a startling difference in the soundstage, the most noticeable thing was a slightly clearer and cleaner sound with micro details being ever so slightly more present and easier to be picked up, certainly nothing like a night a day difference although definitely noticeable.

Again, no real change in the soundstage, HOWEVER please note that at the time I was using B&W P7s and Shure SE425s, NOT the level of headphones I am using now which could possibly reveal much greater differences.


----------



## drummguy26

juansan said:


> To be honest I don't remember a startling difference in the soundstage, the most noticeable thing was a slightly clearer and cleaner sound with micro details being ever so slightly more present and easier to be picked up, certainly nothing like a night a day difference although definitely noticeable.
> 
> Again, no real change in the soundstage, HOWEVER please note that at the time I was using B&W P7s and Shure SE425s, NOT the level of headphones I am using now which could possibly reveal much greater differences.



I see. Ya I think I would hear the difference between the two as I have the CA Atlas. Those headphones are pretty detailed so I would probably tell the difference fairly easily. But regardless, I went ahead and purchased the xCan in addition to the xdsd that I just got, so I’m definitely strapped for cash now and not gonna be able to get the cobalt for awhile. lol. But I’m looking forward to seeing how the red sounds with the xCan since it has both SE and balanced inputs and outputs.


----------



## Nawin Sapchinda

sorry guys I need to tell you my* Dragonfly cobalt* have issue about *3.5 jack* already .  When I plug in the sound only work for a Right side.

please let me know if anyone have the same issue.


----------



## Luke Thomas

So is the cobalt worth the $300 extra if you own the red?  If not what is a good dfr upgrade


----------



## 118900

Luke Thomas said:


> So is the cobalt worth the $300 extra if you own the red?  If not what is a good dfr upgrade


In my opinion, unless you can sell the DFR for a suitable price and recover some of the cost, I don't think its worth paying the full amount of the DFR *again* plus $100 more for the upgrade. 

If you are starting from scratch with a $100 dollar difference between the two, I would pay the difference and go for the DFC.


----------



## Luke Thomas

juansan said:


> In my opinion, unless you can sell the DFR for a suitable price and recover some of the cost, I don't think its worth paying the full amount of the DFR *again* plus $100 more for the upgrade.
> 
> If you are starting from scratch with a $100 dollar difference between the two, I would pay the difference and go for the DFC.


Thx. Looking for more instrument separation using Sennheiser 800s headphones With the dfr


----------



## Condocondor

I found the red intollerable.  Love the Cobalt though!  Worth it to me.


----------



## tracyca

Cobalt sound awesome with the AKG N40. Bass is hitting hard and top end sparkles. Reminds me of a car setup.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Mar 27, 2020)

Condocondor said:


> I found the red intollerable.  Love the Cobalt though!  Worth it to me.



Could you expand a little on why you found the red intolerable, and why you liked the Cobalt over it?


----------



## Condocondor (Mar 28, 2020)

Blueshound24 said:


> Could you expand a little on why you found the red intolerable, and why you liked the Cobalt over it?



Well, I found the Red was intollerably bright with the ESS9016 dac chip and sold it.  The Cobalt has a smoother top end but it's still an ESS dac chip.  The Cobalt's sound stage is better fleshed out, wider, deeper, more space around the instruments, and much less fatiguing, etc.  It perhaps has better dynamics as well.  I still use the iPurifier3 and iSilencer with the Cobalt to further smooth things out a bit.  I use all this with my laptop as a desktop unit--not my phone. 

Here's an article describing the differences as I have:  

https://www.headfonia.com/audioquest-cobalt-review/2/

"Compared to the RED, the Cobalt sounds better, more precise, more wide and spacious but also more natural and clean. The separation is better, the sound stage wider, the extension better in all directions and the presentation more airy. Bass is a bit less thick, the mids more spacious, the treble more energetic and further extended. The Cobalt is superior to the RED on a technical level. Red is more punchy, more in your face, the mids more narrow/intimate, the treble less present.

The tuning is more neutral but to the natural and musical side. The Cobalt can’t be called a warm or dark sounding unit at all, it’s nothing like that. It’s neutrality with a high level of musicality and presented in a natural way with a lot of headroom."


----------



## 529128

I just bought the Cobalt. My first DAC was the DFR with the Jitterbug. Then I found a great offer on the Chord Mojo in a local shop but returned it as it was causing me problems with emi and noise when attached to my iPhone. It was also more bulky than expected. Instead I now bought the DFC. Great compromise between the DFR and the Mojo. It is not as smooth sounding as the Mojo but I find it to be an altogether great listening experience...


----------



## Condocondor

henrikgadegaard said:


> I just bought the Cobalt. My first DAC was the DFR with the Jitterbug. Then I found a great offer on the Chord Mojo in a local shop but returned it as it was causing me problems with emi and noise when attached to my iPhone. It was also more bulky than expected. Instead I now bought the DFC. Great compromise between the DFR and the Mojo. It is not as smooth sounding as the Mojo but I find it to be an altogether great listening experience...


 
Do you notice that your jitterbug improves the DFC?   I know they say not to use it.  I use mine with an iFi Audio iPurifer3 and have the new iFi Audio iSilencer+ on order to try.


----------



## 529128

Condocondor said:


> Do you notice that your jitterbug improves the DFC?   I know they say not to use it.  I use mine with an iFi Audio iPurifer3 and have the new iFi Audio iSilencer+ on order to try.



Hi
I sold my Jitterbug together with the DFR, so I just use the DFC as it is. What is your impression of adding the iPurifier/iSilencer?


----------



## 118900

Condocondor said:


> Do you notice that your jitterbug improves the DFC?   I know they say not to use it.  I use mine with an iFi Audio iPurifer3 and have the new iFi Audio iSilencer+ on order to try.


doesn't the DFC incorporate the jitterbug circuitry already?


----------



## MozartMan1201

The new iFi hip-dac portable DAC received glowing review on Techhive.

- Burr-Brown DSD1793
- Dual-mono, balanced amp
- 32bit/384kHz PCM
- 12.3MHz DSD
- MQA
- $149 Retail


----------



## Condocondor

henrikgadegaard said:


> I sold my Jitterbug together with the DFR, so I just use the DFC as it is. What is your impression of adding the iPurifier/iSilencer?



Just a little bit smoother and less grainy. COBALT is pretty damn good just by itself.


----------



## thymen002

Hi,

I own the IFI Xdsd but am interested if the cobalt is equal/better/worse in terms of detail retrieval.

I like the portability of the cobalt but would not like to go for a (big) drop in particularly detail retrieval).


----------



## balleklorin

juansan said:


> doesn't the DFC incorporate the jitterbug circuitry already?



That's what I've read some place too.


----------



## Logixa

I started with the chord mojo and ended up with the DFC. Never went back to the mojo unless I wanted to listen to something together with a mate or the misses


----------



## Chikolad

Does anyone have experience with the DFC + Audeze LCD-i3 or similar (iSine10/20/LCD-i4) ?

I want a compact portable solution when using my phone. It's an LG V20, and while its internal quad-dac is very good (bests the CIPHER for me), the sound is a little too dull for my taste. On the other hand, connecting my Mojo to the phone sounds pretty amazing. But it's torture to use with the phone.
If anyone has experience with Audeze IEMs, will the DFC bring me closer to the Mojo, or closer to the V20?


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know a good small android phone to partner a cobalt?


----------



## meomap

gazzington said:


> Anybody know a good small android phone to partner a cobalt?


I use my Note 9 with Cobalt.


----------



## Chikolad

Chikolad said:


> Does anyone have experience with the DFC + Audeze LCD-i3 or similar (iSine10/20/LCD-i4) ?
> 
> I want a compact portable solution when using my phone. It's an LG V20, and while its internal quad-dac is very good (bests the CIPHER for me), the sound is a little too dull for my taste. On the other hand, connecting my Mojo to the phone sounds pretty amazing. But it's torture to use with the phone.
> If anyone has experience with Audeze IEMs, will the DFC bring me closer to the Mojo, or closer to the V20?



Anyone...?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Apr 25, 2020)

.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Apr 30, 2020)

Just got a DF Cobalt that came with the DragonTail female USB-A to male USB-C Adapter that works great on my computer. However, I have an older Android phone that has a micro USB port that I want to use with the Cobalt as well.

For adapting the Cobalt to my micro USB Android phone, which one of the adapters below would work better for a Samsung Galaxy S7 edge?

1. AudioQuest DragonTail USB Adaptor For Android Devices USB A (Female) To Micro USB (Male)
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DP60SRK/)

2. VS a generic cable like the DragonTail - female USB-A to male micro USB Adaptor cable
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YOX4JU6/)

3. VS a short female USB-C to male micro USB adapter attached to my existing DragonTail (female USB-A to male USB-C)
(https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Convert-Connector-Support-Compatible/dp/B07GH5KJH2/)

4. or other?

*Does Cobalt require OEM Dragon Tail to Android phone to function properly, or would a generic cable work fine?

Does Cobalt sound better/different with OEM Dragon Tail vs generic cable?

My fav IEM is the U18t, so it is fairly revealing of sources.



EDIT, Another question:*

Also, the Audioquest Cobalt web page said to check your Android USB function with the app, "USB Host Check".


> *To verify that your Android device complies with isochronous USB audio, download and run USB Host Check.*




I have a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, so I downloaded "USB Host Check" and checked my phone and it looks like it failed this app's check? It says, "It appears that USB Host support is not enabled on this device. A fix attempt can be performed".

But the app's fix attempt fails.

Any idea if this is an issue or not? I cannot find out if it works without one of the above adapters needed to adapt to the S7's micro USB.

TIA


----------



## Condocondor

*FYI:  My beloved COBALT headphone jack started cutting in and out and not giving a clear signal after 9 months of everyday use.  The USB and/or 3.5mm jack are both seemingly loose.  Will be contacting Audioquest as it is still under warranty.  The customer service email address on the Audioquest website gets your email returned to you if you try to use it.  Using the Audioquest phone number:  (949) 585-0111 on Monday 4/27/20.*


----------



## Condocondor

Tenashus1 said:


> Does your Cobalt's copper connector wiggle or move within the housing? Mine does and it's concerning to me.


*After 9 months, mine just started to wiggle and the audio is cutting in and out with the wiggle.....  : (*


----------



## 118900

Chikolad said:


> Anyone...?


I have partnered the DFC with LCD-4z with its impedance of 15 Ohms and it works fine. Not sure the impedance of the ones you have mentioned though.

Sound quality is likewise very good


----------



## Chikolad

juansan said:


> I have partnered the DFC with LCD-4z with its impedance of 15 Ohms and it works fine. Not sure the impedance of the ones you have mentioned though.
> 
> Sound quality is likewise very good


Thanks! I just wonder if the Cobalt will bring out the i3's best. I'm a little worried about the reports about the sound being a little laid back and the mids being forward.


----------



## 118900

Chikolad said:


> Thanks! I just wonder if the Cobalt will bring out the i3's best. I'm a little worried about the reports about the sound being a little laid back and the mids being forward.


I had the DFR before the DFC (I sold the DFR because I found the DFC superior, but that's me).

I normally partner the LCD-4z with a Chord Hugo 2 so that is the sound I am comparing the DFC to when I tested it using those headphones. I can tell you that although there is an obvious difference between the two, the DFC by no means embarrasses itself, especially considering the difference in pricing. 

I normally pair the DFC with Shure KSE1200s and SE846s, both of which are extremely revealing IEMs (especially the electrostatic KSEs) and I can assure you it is an extremely good DAC, musical yet detailed, by no means "boring" or "laid back" but not brash either (the DFR is ever so slightly brighter and my opinion is that the DFC reigns that in perfectly). Overall a sublime sound in my opinion. If you add the form factor and the fact that it does not need charging I think its a serious contender for best DAC in its category and many would include up against the Chord Mojo.

HOWEVER these are purely subjective views, I bought blind (based on the DFR, which was also bought blind at its time) and I was lucky. I am reasonably certain that if you purchase and pair with your Audezes you will be very pleased, but if you want to be 100% sure you need to listen to it yourself on your headphones if you can. 

Also make sure (if you purchase) the it is one of the later models with the loose fittings problems resolved.

Hope that helps


----------



## a-LeXx

Long-time DFR user here... Ordered a DFC which will arrive in a few days. Ordered mainly because I needed another DAC in the same form factor for my second mobile setup, got it for 20% under retail and I wanted to have a comparable SQ but with lower noise floor, DFR is a bit too noisy for my SE846...
Will post few lines here later when I receive and test my unit...


----------



## Chikolad

juansan said:


> I had the DFR before the DFC (I sold the DFR because I found the DFC superior, but that's me).
> 
> I normally partner the LCD-4z with a Chord Hugo 2 so that is the sound I am comparing the DFC to when I tested it using those headphones. I can tell you that although there is an obvious difference between the two, the DFC by no means embarrasses itself, especially considering the difference in pricing.
> 
> ...


That's great information, so thank you again.
I actually have a Hugo 2 and weirdly I'm not crazy about how it pairs with the i3 (the LCD-3 OTOH sound amazing on it). And I do like the i3 on the Mojo.

When was the wiggle resolved? What are the chances that I will get a wiggle unit if I buy it new from a retailer?


----------



## 118900 (Apr 27, 2020)

Chikolad said:


> That's great information, so thank you again.
> I actually have a Hugo 2 and weirdly I'm not crazy about how it pairs with the i3 (the LCD-3 OTOH sound amazing on it). And I do like the i3 on the Mojo.
> 
> When was the wiggle resolved? What are the chances that I will get a wiggle unit if I buy it new from a retailer?


No problem, my pleasure. Not sure when the wiggle was resolved, if you read through this thread from early on you will see people make reference to it and some posted about writing to Audioquest and getting replies about modifications to (at that time) future units.

I bought one of the very first units but have never had any wiggle issue with it.


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> Long-time DFR user here... Ordered a DFC which will arrive in a few days. Ordered mainly because I needed another DAC in the same form factor for my second mobile setup, got it for 20% under retail and I wanted to have a comparable SQ but with lower noise floor, DFR is a bit too noisy for my SE846...
> Will post few lines here later when I receive and test my unit...


I didn't get the SE846 until after I had changed up to the DFC from the DFR so I cannot comment. I do not hear any noise nor do I hear any distortion notwithstanding the output impedance of the DFC being close to 8 times rule of the headphone impedance itself.


----------



## a-LeXx

Impedance shouldn‘t be an issue. DFC has been measured to have 0.1-0.2Ohm output impedance. It should be actually the same as with DFR, because exactly the same output stage is being used...


----------



## soufiaj

I have both DFR and DFC, to me the DFC for sure sounded much relaxed and less harsh on the highs. Also there were no hiss with my SE846 + ALO Ref 8 cable. 

ONLY...

...after 5 month of use (NOT EVERYDAY)... the DFC starts developing wiggle. I am always babying it since the day it is unboxed and felt so lucky to have the non-wiggle unit. Of course the sound is not cutting out intermittently like OP have mentioned but this is pretty scary for a long run!

Now since I just have got spare FiiO BTR5, it is another beast on it’s own league IMO and it is so much cheaper than the DFC.

Only I have yet to decide if I should stay with the BTR5 or DFC... hmmmm   wiggle wiggle wiggle.


----------



## Chikolad

Well, after 2 weeks of having the DFC in an online cart, battling with myself whether I should or shouldn't, I finally pulled the trigger!
Here's hoping I find the purchase justified after I get it


----------



## HardstyleLoco96 (Apr 28, 2020)

Hello, I have a question to anyone that owns a E1DA 9038s Gen 2. I have it and it's so far my portable end game I even use it heaps when at home as it is more convenient than my Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies Gen 2. I also own the Dragonfly Red and can easily say the 9038s is a massive step up sq wise. The E1DA 9038s has much better extension on both ends, more neutral tonality, the mids are crystal clear and have heaps of detail and clarity is much more improved as well with dynamics and texture. I got the dragonfly red in a bundle when I bought myself a Focal Elegia, so the dragonfly red is being used every now and then but I much prefer the sound of the 9038s. I am curious though if anyone has heard the Cobalt and 9038s and can do a comparison of the two. The 9038s is a bargain and I have read it measures better than the Cobalt but measurements does not mean it sounds better. Some people have said the 9038s sounds better, I for one can say it can fight against my Fiio Q5s with AM3d module, the Q5S with the module does have a slightly bigger soundstage, a touch more clarity but detail feels the same while the E1DA 9038s has a touch more low end and dynamics feel slightly quicker. I'm just curious how it stacks up to the Cobalt as I havent heard it. And I do like collecting dacs but if the E1DA 9038s gen 2 and Fiio Q5s sound better, I'll skip the Cobalt. I use the E1DA 9038s on mode 1 ( Normal mode ) but when I want to push it, performance mode is my choice but drains the battery more but performs extremely close to the Fiio Q5s in terms of clarity and soundstage. It's that good


----------



## a-LeXx (Apr 29, 2020)

My DFC is here. First check, no wiggle... Good.
Second check, SE846. The background is not absolutely black, but barely noticeable faint hiss, negligible. Night and day difference to DFR (which I still have and will continue using in a different setup).
So, because of much better background noise with SE846 the DFC is already a clear upgrade vs DFR for me.
To the sound - I didn't do any comparisons DFR<->DFC. Overall, a familiar sound signature that I'm used to, maybe DFC has a bit better soundstage from  the first listen, anyway I'm not disappointed. Maybe will do some critical listening and comparison between DFR/DFC later but most likely not. I like the sound, and I prefer listening to music and enjoying it over testing, which I do enough for living...


----------



## a-LeXx

Just a short comment after few albums: DFC is doing exactly what I was expecting it to do and is a perfect match for an SE846 (I use white filters).
Sound quality seems to be better than DFR, as I measure it in amount of  shivers per album I'm getting when listening to music, and with DFC and SE846 it's so far more than with DFR. Albums that already sounded good with DFR sound better with DFC, it is somehow more transparent, maybe a bit less midbass as well, very clean but not clinical sound.
For those who like female vocals I can only recommend Karen Souza "Velvet Vault" album. Was not bad with DFR neither, but with DFC and SE846 I'm getting an impression like she is siting on my lap whispering into my ears


----------



## a-LeXx (Apr 30, 2020)

Another short update: listened to DFC with my T5p.2. Very nice. I liked my T5p.2 on DFR, hated it on Apple‘s dongle (too digital and harsh). On DFC, the main sound signature is similar to DFR, with a bit softer presentation, and a bit less midbass. I like this, as T5p.2 for my ears has a bitt too much of midbass, and a bit softer presentation is also nice with this headphone which is not known for being gentle in a treble department.

I will continue using DFR as a DAC for my HD600 setup, as HD600 actually benefits from a bit more energetic presentation given by DFR, and due to separate amplification I‘m using in that setup the extra ‚air‘ of DFC would be getting lost to some extent anyway.

What I like in DFC is that it is really representing a shortest signal path to the ES9038 DAC. No big amplification stages, no volume control, just a sabre headphone amp, which is actually nothing more than a low-noise buffer. That makes the sound on low-impedance easy-to-drive headphones very transparent and airy. Any additional amplification stage, even the best one, will introduce it‘s own distortions/sound signature and remove a bit of that ‚air‘.

To the reasons why a DFC is a better option for me than any other DAC on the market (in no particular order):
1. Compact size.
2. Doesn't drain iPhone's battery too much. Any other similar chifi implementation is using a different USB tranceiver chip which either doesn't run off iPhone at all or is draining the battery too fast.
3. Almost dead silent with SE846
4. I can check the actual bit rate based on the LED color
5. MQA
6. Very short signal path
7. Sounds good
8. Line-out with 2V

I don't know of any other device on the market that would cover all mentioned points.


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> My DFC is here. First check, no wiggle... Good.
> Second check, SE846. The background is not absolutely black, but barely noticeable faint hiss, negligible. Night and day difference to DFR (which I still have and will continue using in a different setup).
> So, because of much better background noise with SE846 the DFC is already a clear upgrade vs DFR for me.
> To the sound - I didn't do any comparisons DFR<->DFC. Overall, a familiar sound signature that I'm used to, maybe DFC has a bit better soundstage from  the first listen, anyway I'm not disappointed. Maybe will do some critical listening and comparison between DFR/DFC later but most likely not. I like the sound, and I prefer listening to music and enjoying it to testing, which I do enough for living...


very glad you're pleased with it!


a-LeXx said:


> Just a short comment after few albums: DFC is doing exactly what I was expecting it to do and is a perfect match for an SE846 (I use white filters).
> Sound quality seems to be better than DFR, as I measure it in amount of  shivers per album I'm getting when listening to music, and with DFC and SE846 it's so far more than with DFR. Albums that already sounded good with DFR sound better with DFC, it is somehow more transparent, maybe a bit less midbass as well, very clean but not clinical sound.
> For those who like female vocals I can only recommend Karen Souza "Velvet Vault" album. Was not bad with DFR neither, but with DFC and SE846 I'm getting an impression like she is siting on my lap whispering into my ears


where you using the white filters with the DFR as well?


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> very glad you're pleased with it!
> 
> where you using the white filters with the DFR as well?


sure


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> sure


ok, just wanted to double check. I love the DFC for the same reasons you listed. its perfect for travelling too


----------



## edisonwu

I am using below Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter to connect the COBALT with my iPhone.
https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

I have found that if I put an additonal powersupply from a USB to the lightning plug on the adapter, the sound becomes sturdier and gives slightly more punch.
Anyone else the same as me?


----------



## a-LeXx

edisonwu said:


> I am using below Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter to connect the COBALT with my iPhone.
> https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter
> 
> I have found that if I put an additonal powersupply from a USB to the lightning plug on the adapter, the sound becomes sturdier and gives slightly more punch.
> Anyone else the same as me?


I don't hear this...


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> I don't hear this...


I have to say I don't either (I have both the CCK lightning to USB, one with and one without the additional lightning socket) and cannot hear any difference between them.

I know that Audioquest state on their website that the "simple" version can sometimes have sound quality issues with their Dragonflies (occasional random clicks etc), however this was identified as an iOS issue and after apple updated the iOS a couple of years ago these issues disappeared (from mine at least).


----------



## stereonerd

Hoping to hear a review of the EarMen Sparrow - Which looks very promising for the price, $100 lower than the cobalt. Anyone have any information? https://earmen-shop.com/products/sparrow


----------



## a-LeXx (May 6, 2020)

stereonerd said:


> Hoping to hear a review of the EarMen Sparrow - Which looks very promising for the price, $100 lower than the cobalt. Anyone have any information? https://earmen-shop.com/products/sparrow


Actually overpriced. For dragonflies, the developers had at least to put together 3 main components (USB tranceiver implemented with an mcu, DAC and an amp), do some coding for the mcu and so on. Sparrow is a single chip implementation, actually a student could design this one, as it combines literally everything in one chip. So, asking $200 for this is WAY too much, this is a chip intended for usage in smartphones and similar devices...

I think later this year we will see lots of similar devices from China for $50-$70, as it‘s a very simple design not even requiring any real engineering, difficult to screw. Add a bit of power filtering - and you are basically done, everything else is already in a package...


----------



## stereonerd

a-LeXx said:


> Actually overpriced. For dragonflies, the developers had at least to put together 3 main components (USB tranceiver implemented with an mcu, DAC and an amp), do some coding for the mcu and so on. Sparrow is a single chip implementation, actually a student could design this one, as it combines literally everything in one chip. So, asking $200 for this is WAY too much, this is a chip intended for usage in smartphones and similar devices...
> 
> I think later this year we will see lots of similar devices from China for $50-$70, as it‘s a very simple design not even requiring any real engineering, difficult to screw. Add a bit of power filtering - and you are basically done, everything else is already in a package...



On paper, you could be right - I did read something about "HyperStream®II modulation" not sure if that's additional circuitry involved or not, will be interesting to hear when it's finally released and I think absolutely you are correct, this device will be somewhat easy to "clone" from China, but so are all things... Dragonfly included. Where do you think the Dragonfly is manufactured, I wonder?


----------



## a-LeXx (May 6, 2020)

stereonerd said:


> On paper, you could be right - I did read something about "HyperStream®II modulation" not sure if that's additional circuitry involved or not, will be interesting to hear when it's finally released and I think absolutely you are correct, this device will be somewhat easy to "clone" from China, but so are all things... Dragonfly included. Where do you think the Dragonfly is manufactured, I wonder?


No additional circuitry, HyperStream is a pure buzz word of ESS design, incorporated into the chip. And I‘m not talking about ‚cloning‘. Any manufacturer provides a reference design for implementation, ESS is not different to other. And since there is basically nothing to add, since everything‘s already on a chip, any manufacturer can take a reference design, layout a pcb and that‘s it.
Dragonfly is a completely different story, as the manufacturer took a difficult path of using a lower-power mcu for usb tranceiver in order to keep power consumption as low as possible. There is not a single clone of that design from China, all use off-the-shelf usb tranceiver that either do not work off an iphone without an additional power supply or discharge the battery in no time. And Dragonfly is being manufactured in the US, from chinese components... As even ESS can be considered chinese...well, taiwanese as a matter of fact (well, as most semiconductors in the world) ... However, that doesn‘t matter nothing to me at all, I neither live in the US nor in China, so, no America first for me, please  What I want to say, is - for me it really doesn‘t matter, where the stuff is coming from, what I value are technically good solutions, attractive pricing is of course a nice bonus...


----------



## a-LeXx

There is one negative aspect with DFC compared to DFR: DFC is draining about 50-60% more power than DFR, according to play/standby times I'm getting with it on the same iPhone 7... Well, ES9038 is more power hungry, nothing can be done about this. Performance has its price. I guess new ES9281PRO-based designs will have considerably lower power consumption, but ES9038 still has better specs and is a better DAC, at least on paper...


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> There is one negative aspect with DFC compared to DFR: DFC is draining about 50-60% more power than DFR, according to play/standby times I'm getting with it on the same iPhone 7... Well, ES9038 is more power hungry, nothing can be done about this. Performance has its price. I guess new ES9281PRO-based designs will have considerably lower power consumption, but ES9038 still has better specs and is a better DAC, at least on paper...


Didn't they advertise 33% LESS power consumption than the Red?


----------



## a-LeXx

Chikolad said:


> Didn't they advertise 33% LESS power consumption than the Red?


Nope, they didn't. They advertised 33% less power consumption of the Microchip MCU. But ES9038 consumes a lot more than ES9016, also in standby. So much for advertising. You need to read between the lines...


----------



## 118900 (May 7, 2020)

a-LeXx said:


> Actually overpriced. For dragonflies, the developers had at least to put together 3 main components (USB tranceiver implemented with an mcu, DAC and an amp), do some coding for the mcu and so on. Sparrow is a single chip implementation, actually a student could design this one, as it combines literally everything in one chip. So, asking $200 for this is WAY too much, this is a chip intended for usage in smartphones and similar devices...
> 
> I think later this year we will see lots of similar devices from China for $50-$70, as it‘s a very simple design not even requiring any real engineering, difficult to screw. Add a bit of power filtering - and you are basically done, everything else is already in a package...


Deleted


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> Nope, they didn't. They advertised 33% less power consumption of the Microchip MCU. But ES9038 consumes a lot more than ES9016, also in standby. So much for advertising. You need to read between the lines...


That's BS lol


----------



## McCol

juansan said:


> Maybe not very appropriate on here but I for one will not be buying Chinese anymore



Why not?


----------



## 118900 (May 7, 2020)

McCol said:


> Why not?


Too many reasons to list and frankly this is not the right forum therefore I have deleted my comment. Just to be clear I have nothing against the people but the CCP is something else.


----------



## Chikolad

Received my DFC today...
Using UAPP it sometimes loses the first milliseconds of a track and quickly fades into it. 
Help?!


----------



## Chikolad

Chikolad said:


> Received my DFC today...
> Using UAPP it sometimes loses the first milliseconds of a track and quickly fades into it.
> Help?!


Never mind, figured it out. 

By the way, first impressions: it's good, but it's no match for the Mojo. Using my LCD-i3 at least.


----------



## 118900

Chikolad said:


> Never mind, figured it out.
> 
> By the way, first impressions: it's good, but it's no match for the Mojo. Using my LCD-i3 at least.


I have not heard the mojo, only the Hugo2 and the DFC. even then I have never really done a real A/B comparison between the two using the same headphones.

is the difference between the mojo and the DFC really that apparent? (not being pelvic, genuinely interested in what you have found)


----------



## McCol

juansan said:


> I have not heard the mojo, only the Hugo2 and the DFC. even then I have never really done a real A/B comparison between the two using the same headphones.
> 
> is the difference between the mojo and the DFC really that apparent? (not being pelvic, genuinely interested in what you have found)



I personally found the Mojo only marginally superior to the Cobalt from an audio sense however when considering the form factor and interference noise from the mojo, I actually think the Cobalt is the better option.  To me anyway.


----------



## Chikolad (May 11, 2020)

juansan said:


> I have not heard the mojo, only the Hugo2 and the DFC. even then I have never really done a real A/B comparison between the two using the same headphones.
> 
> is the difference between the mojo and the DFC really that apparent? (not being pelvic, genuinely interested in what you have found)



To me they are apparent enough. And I don't consider myself to have "golden ears" or anything like that.
There are differences for sure. Maybe for some, or with some other gear, the Cobalt will be preferable. For me, with my gear, I like the Mojo better.
EDIT: also, remember that these are first impressions only. I've had it less than 24 hours.



McCol said:


> I personally found the Mojo only marginally superior to the Cobalt from an audio sense however when considering the form factor and interference noise from the mojo, I actually think the Cobalt is the better option.  To me anyway.



Of course the form factor of the DFC wins, and that's the only reason I bought it in the first place. I can't walk around with a Mojo, not even inside the house.


----------



## Chikolad

During the break in, does the DFC sound worse before it sounds better?
Was listening to McCartney's Egypt Station and some parts were almost painful with piercing treble. I then tried it on the Mojo and everything was much more relaxed. There were still moments where it came close to being too hot (that's the recording) but never crossed the line.
Also with the Mojo the sound is more cohesive and the bass is more controlled with better authority.
I hope it gets better because right now I'm a little disappointed.


----------



## a-LeXx

There is no such a thing as break in of solid state components...
Mojo has rolled-off treble, it‘s a documented ‚feature‘ of Mojo, according to developer, because people tend to use Mojo with bright headphones.

Probably DFC is just a bad match for your headphones/iems...


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> There is no such a thing as break in of solid state components...
> Mojo has rolled-off treble, it‘s a documented ‚feature‘ of Mojo, according to developer, because people tend to use Mojo with bright headphones.
> 
> Probably DFC is just a bad match for your headphones/iems...


Well maybe there's a brain-break-in. I've had that with both headphones and other components. The DFC sounded different the day I got it than what it sounds like now. Of course it can be due to many other factors as my physical state, mental state, temperature etc.
Regarding the roll-off of the Mojo, doesn't the Cobalt have one too? 
I doubt it's a bad match with my IEMs. They are Audeze LCD-i3 and they definitely don't have a treble spike of their own. But I learned that they are quite transparent to the source, i.e. they reveal differences between sources and respond to changes in the chain.


----------



## McCol

Chikolad said:


> Well maybe there's a brain-break-in. I've had that with both headphones and other components. The DFC sounded different the day I got it than what it sounds like now. Of course it can be due to many other factors as my physical state, mental state, temperature etc.
> Regarding the roll-off of the Mojo, doesn't the Cobalt have one too?
> I doubt it's a bad match with my IEMs. They are Audeze LCD-i3 and they definitely don't have a treble spike of their own. But I learned that they are quite transparent to the source, i.e. they reveal differences between sources and respond to changes in the chain.



Now there's a thing I learned on the i3 thread.  If I plug the i3 in to cobalt and just use it the skund isn't as intended unless I use the parametric eq on the uapp app.  Allows me to create the intended curve Audeze intended with the cipher cable.
I didn't really get it or believe it until I tried it.


----------



## a-LeXx

Chikolad said:


> Well maybe there's a brain-break-in. I've had that with both headphones and other components. The DFC sounded different the day I got it than what it sounds like now. Of course it can be due to many other factors as my physical state, mental state, temperature etc.
> Regarding the roll-off of the Mojo, doesn't the Cobalt have one too?
> I doubt it's a bad match with my IEMs. They are Audeze LCD-i3 and they definitely don't have a treble spike of their own. But I learned that they are quite transparent to the source, i.e. they reveal differences between sources and respond to changes in the chain.


Yes, probably it‘s just a biological reason, happens to me all the time, especially when I start rotating gear.... Anyway, the treble roll-off of Mojo is WAY more pronounces then with DFC. The roll-off on DFC starts at around 17kHz and is mere 0.5dB. Mojo starts the roll-off at 9kHz, and at 13kHz it‘s already 1dB, around 1.5dB at 18kHz...


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> Yes, probably it‘s just a biological reason, happens to me all the time, especially when I start rotating gear.... Anyway, the treble roll-off of Mojo is WAY more pronounces then with DFC. The roll-off on DFC starts at around 17kHz and is mere 0.5dB. Mojo starts the roll-off at 9kHz, and at 13kHz it‘s already 1dB, around 1.5dB at 18kHz...


I did not know that! Interesting.


----------



## Chikolad

McCol said:


> Now there's a thing I learned on the i3 thread.  If I plug the i3 in to cobalt and just use it the skund isn't as intended unless I use the parametric eq on the uapp app.  Allows me to create the intended curve Audeze intended with the cipher cable.
> I didn't really get it or believe it until I tried it.


I already use the parametric eq on UAPP. I took Audeze's recommended numbers and tweaked them a little to my preferences. I was using the Mojo at the time. Maybe I need a new preset for the DFC knowing the difference in the roll-off now...


----------



## McCol

Chikolad said:


> I already use the parametric eq on UAPP. I took Audeze's recommended numbers and tweaked them a little to my preferences. I was using the Mojo at the time. Maybe I need a new preset for the DFC knowing the difference in the roll-off now...


Could just be brain burn in

I initially sold my cobalt when I bought it months ago as it didn't sound good to me, think I was comparing it too other gear too much.

Second time round and I'm loving it.


----------



## Chikolad

McCol said:


> Could just be brain burn in
> 
> I initially sold my cobalt when I bought it months ago as it didn't sound good to me, think I was comparing it too other gear too much.
> 
> Second time round and I'm loving it.


What made you get it the second time after you didn't like it the first time?


----------



## McCol

Chikolad said:


> What made you get it the second time after you didn't like it the first time?



I read a review elsewhere and started to wonder if I had really given it enough time, also was switching between gear alot at the time.  I also missed the form factor.  I was a jit like you thought the hughs were a bit harsh but I think that was because I was listening on gear with a slightly warmer signature


----------



## Chikolad

I started again with the Audeze recommended settings and worked my way from there, and it's already better. Who knew the FR difference between this and the Mojo was so significant (except @a-LeXx lol)?


----------



## gazzington

Just ordered one of these. I'm working from home so plugging it into my laptop seems like a good plan. Once I'm back in work I'll attach it to my phone. Matter of interest does it sound different with apple and android phones? Also what iems and headphones have good synergy with it? Thanks


----------



## slumberman

gazzington said:


> Just ordered one of these. I'm working from home so plugging it into my laptop seems like a good plan. Once I'm back in work I'll attach it to my phone. Matter of interest does it sound different with apple and android phones? Also what iems and headphones have good synergy with it? Thanks



you'll love it with your Andromedas I think!


----------



## gazzington

slumberman said:


> you'll love it with your Andromedas I think!


Ah good especially as I already own a set lol. Seems like a good gadget as it works with laptop and the phone


----------



## 118900

Chikolad said:


> During the break in, does the DFC sound worse before it sounds better?
> Was listening to McCartney's Egypt Station and some parts were almost painful with piercing treble. I then tried it on the Mojo and everything was much more relaxed. There were still moments where it came close to being too hot (that's the recording) but never crossed the line.
> Also with the Mojo the sound is more cohesive and the bass is more controlled with better authority.
> I hope it gets better because right now I'm a little disappointed.


are your headphones bright? Consider that the DFC is a whisker less bright than the DFR so im surprised that you are finding it overly bright.


----------



## Chikolad

juansan said:


> are your headphones bright? Consider that the DFC is a whisker less bright than the DFR so im surprised that you are finding it overly bright.


I wouldn't call them bright. They're definitely not dark though. The i4 EQ that Audeze uses (and currently recommend for the i3 too) reduces the area around 10k by 8dB(!) so maybe they do have some spike that needs addressing.

I don't know, right now I'm having trouble fully enjoying the DFC even with EQ toning the treble down. When I compare it to the Mojo, the latter simply has better resolution. Better texture. Also a blacker background.
I've decided to keep DFC on, playing some music, in the hope that some break in actually does exist and that maybe it will improve.
I honestly enjoy the headphone jack of my LG v20 better right now.
I've changed my mind about components before so I'm going to give it time...


----------



## a-LeXx (May 15, 2020)

Chikolad said:


> I wouldn't call them bright. They're definitely not dark though. The i4 EQ that Audeze uses (and currently recommend for the i3 too) reduces the area around 10k by 8dB(!) so maybe they do have some spike that needs addressing.
> 
> I don't know, right now I'm having trouble fully enjoying the DFC even with EQ toning the treble down. When I compare it to the Mojo, the latter simply has better resolution. Better texture. Also a blacker background.
> I've decided to keep DFC on, playing some music, in the hope that some break in actually does exist and that maybe it will improve.
> ...



that LG sounds better than a DFC is strange, as LG uses lower grade ESS components. Sounds almost like something‘s wrong in a combination of your source and DFC... DFC actually has a blacker background with SE846 than Mojo...It somehow sounds like you are unintentionally reducing dynamic range because of SW volume reduction, at the same time increasing gain, or something similar... To be sure that everything‘s fine in a digital department, I‘d do the following as an experiment:

If you are not already subscribing to Tidal, subscribe and play some Masters albums. If DFC is decoding correctly and is indeed getting bit-perfect data, it should change color to purple. Play it with UAPP, not with the tidal‘s own app...

If everything‘s working correctly - well, then it‘s probably really a bad matching between DFC and your headphones...


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> that LG sounds better than a DFC is strange, as LG uses lower grade ESS components. Sounds almost like something‘s wrong in a combination of your source and DFC... DFC actually has a blacker background with SE846 than Mojo...It somehow sounds like you are unintentionally reducing dynamic range because of SW volume reduction, at the same time increasing gain, or something similar... To be sure that everything‘s fine in a digital department, I‘d do the following as an experiment:
> 
> If you are not already subscribing to Tidal, subscribe and play some Masters albums. If DFC is decoding correctly and is indeed getting bit-perfect data, it should change color to purple. Play it with UAPP, not with the tidal‘s own app...
> 
> If everything‘s working correctly - well, then it‘s probably really a bad matching between DFC and your headphones...



Thanks. I'm successfully playing MQA using UAPP (purple light). Although a lot of the time I prefer to use the EQ so can't get full MQA.
When I mentioned a black background I didn't mean hissing or some audible noise. I meant the sensation that each instrument is distinct and emerges from a "black background" in a smooth and clean way. It's hard to describe. I apologize if I misused the term.


----------



## a-LeXx

Chikolad said:


> Thanks. I'm successfully playing MQA using UAPP (purple light). Although a lot of the time I prefer to use the EQ so can't get full MQA.
> When I mentioned a black background I didn't mean hissing or some audible noise. I meant the sensation that each instrument is distinct and emerges from a "black background" in a smooth and clean way. It's hard to describe. I apologize if I misused the term.


Well, then I guess DFC is not for you, at least not with those headphones... It can‘t be impedance mismatch neither, as the output impedance of DFC is close to 0. At this point I ran out of further suggestions...


----------



## McCol

I'm going to try my lcd i3 later tonight with the cobalt, see if I have the same issue, I've yet to try them with it.


----------



## Chikolad

I would say my impressions are somewhat similar to those of this guy:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...lt-loaner-program.911049/page-2#post-15276361

@a-LeXx, you seem to know a lot about the technical workings of dac/amps. What is your response to the bad measurements of the DFC?


----------



## a-LeXx

Chikolad said:


> I would say my impressions are somewhat similar to those of this guy:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...lt-loaner-program.911049/page-2#post-15276361
> 
> @a-LeXx, you seem to know a lot about the technical workings of dac/amps. What is your response to the bad measurements of the DFC?


Nothing of particular importance when paired with sensitive IEMs or headphones. One reason for the bad measurements was clipping at max output levels, the second reason is usage of minimum phase slow roll-off filter, which is known to measure not that nicely, but sounds better to some people than other filters (softer treble, less digital glare and so on). What‘s important - in the area of noise, crosstalk, dynamic range DFC measures very nicely. A bit higher THD compared to DFR is not really audible, can be ignored...


----------



## drykoke

Chikolad said:


> @a-LeXx, you seem to know a lot about the technical workings of dac/amps. What is your response to the bad measurements of the DFC?



No disrepect to keen enthusiastic bloggers, but my trust lies wholly with proper professional reviewers. Their actual measurements did not identify any bad results with the Cobalt.
Hi-Fi News Cobalt Review
Stereophile Cobalt Review
Admittedly, the Stereophile reviewer did comment on some measured clipping with very low impedance headphones at maximum output. But this was not audible to the reviewer.


----------



## a-LeXx (May 16, 2020)

drykoke said:


> No disrepect to keen enthusiastic bloggers, but my trust lies wholly with proper professional reviewers. Their actual measurements did not identify any bad results with the Cobalt.
> Hi-Fi News Cobalt Review
> Stereophile Cobalt Review
> Admittedly, the Stereophile reviewer did comment on some measured clipping with very low impedance headphones at maximum output. But this was not audible to the reviewer.


Agree. But actually the measurements of Stereophile correspond to those of Archimago and that another blogger, don‘t remember his name... Those 2 guys performed even a few other measurements where DFC measures particularly well. However, they both exaggerated the fact that DFC shows clipping when overloaded (not a real problem) and higher THD and IMD which are both a result of using a not very effective digital filter (minimum phase slow roll-off). Also alias suppression of this filter is expectedly bad, again, this is a nature of the filter, those aliasing frequencies shouldn’t be audible... 

However, usage of this filter was a business decision made by AQ, as without it DFC would sound almost identical to DFR (they use exactly the same output stage). So, AQ decided to introduce another ‚audiophile‘ flavor, which is known for bad measurements...
So, basically, what we hear with both DFR and DFC is a DAC sound signature with different filters, as the output stage of both is as minimalistic as it can get, no real amplifier (unity gain), just a buffer to source some current for the headphones.


----------



## drykoke

a-LeXx said:


> However, usage of this filter was a business decision made by AQ, as without it DFC would sound almost identical to DFR (they use exactly the same output stage). So, AQ decided to introduce another ‚audiophile‘ flavor, which is known for bad measurements...
> So, basically, what we hear with both DFR and DFC is a DAC sound signature with different filters, as the output stage of both is as minimalistic as it can get, no real amplifier (unity gain), just a buffer to source some current for the headphones.


Yes, agree. I have both and DFR is more hi-fi flavour, and DFC is more relaxed and natural flavour.
Everybody has their own preference which flavour suits them best.


----------



## a-LeXx

drykoke said:


> Yes, agree. I have both and DFR is more hi-fi flavour, and DFC is more relaxed and natural flavour.
> Everybody has their own preference which flavour suits them best.



Right, it also depends on pairing with headphones. E.g. T5p.2 tend to sound a bit metallic in treble and exaggerate digital glare with some sources. On DFC however, it‘s very smooth, no that unnatural ‚shimmer‘.  However I prefer how my HD600 sounds on DFR vs DFC, it‘s somehow livelier and more energetic (with an additional amp in both cases, as HD600 sounds too flat and boring on both DFR/DFC W/o an amp)


----------



## gazzington

I’ve bought one of these and paired it with an iPhone 11 Pro and some periodic be items. Sounds great, perfect portable solution


----------



## drykoke

a-LeXx said:


> However I prefer how my HD600 sounds on DFR vs DFC, it‘s somehow livelier and more energetic (with an additional amp in both cases, as HD600 sounds too flat and boring on both DFR/DFC W/o an amp)


I kept my HD600 in a cupboard for years and years because it was so unexciting and undynamic to listen to. Then I got the DFR and, wow that was the first time I started to appreciate the strengths of the HD600!


----------



## a-LeXx

drykoke said:


> I kept my HD600 in a cupboard for years and years because it was so unexciting and undynamic to listen to. Then I got the DFR and, wow that was the first time I started to appreciate the strengths of the HD600!


Then try to add a fiio A5 amp and use it on a high gain. Doesn't cost much, but sounds really magical with HD600.

 It was exactly the same with me, I kept my HD600 in a cupboard because I found it boring for over 10 years. Actually I didn't even know I still had them, thought I gave them away. Then I found them by accident and decided to give them another chance. 

With DFR and A5 on high gain the HD600 really has some bass (even without added bass, which I never use) , and sounds anything but boring, even better than on my big tube hybrid amp... For sound quality I appreciate it better than my $1k headphones/iems. It's a pity I rarely have a chance to listen to them since it's an open design and is not really cimpatible with my family situation...


----------



## Condocondor

Anyone looking for a new Cobalt in box, PM me.  Audioquest replaced mine with a brand new one.  Still sealed in box.


----------



## a-LeXx

Condocondor said:


> Anyone looking for a new Cobalt in box, PM me.  Audioquest replaced mine with a brand new one.  Still sealed in box.


You don‘t like it anymore?


----------



## a-LeXx (May 18, 2020)

I measured this with a timer, in stand-by DFC actually consumes 2.5x more power than a DFR.
On my iPhone 6, an average battery discharge in idle with DFR connected is 4% per hour. With DFC connected it's 10% per hour.

I did some research and found out the reason for this. Apparently, according to Gordon Rankin, DFC is operatig on USB in a High-Speed-Mode, vs. DFR in Full-Speed-Mode.
High-Speed-Mode needs A LOT more power just for the USB, as it allows transfer rates of up to 480 Mbps vs 12 Mbps in Full-Speed-Mode, has shorter latencies, more complicated packet structure and so on.

So, the question is: WHY?
At it's highest rate, DFC can work at 96/24, which means around 4.6 Mbps. This is almost 3 times less, than Full-Speed-Mode would allow to transmit. Conclusion is, Audio Quest must be planing to make higher sampling rates possible, up to 384 Ksps, which indeed would require High-Speed-Mode.
However, another question, why didn't they do it from the beginning? Why letting DFC running in a High-Speed-Mode (and this was the only reason for them to switch to a new MCU, because the old one was not power efficient/fast enough to run High-Speed-Mode, again according to Gordon Rankin, I'm not making this up) even though no higher sampling rates have been implemented? This unnecessary increases power consumption, and is doing NOTHING for audio quality, the energy is just wasted on USB protocol overhead...

Questions, questions....


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> I measured this with a timer, in stand-by DFC actually consumes 2.5x more power than a DFR.
> On my iPhone 6, an average battery discharge in idle with DFR connected is 4% per hour. With DFC connected it's 10% per hour.
> 
> I did some research and found out the reason for this. Apparently, according to Gordon Rankin, DFC is operatig on USB in a High-Speed-Mode, vs. DFR in Full-Speed-Mode.
> ...


We need Gordon in here


----------



## McCol

I wonder if drain is different on Android, I'm not seeing anything like 10% drain per hour via my Samsung handset.


----------



## a-LeXx (May 18, 2020)

McCol said:


> I wonder if drain is different on Android, I'm not seeing anything like 10% drain per hour via my Samsung handset.


Well, first thing, iPhone 6 has a really small battery, android devices usually have a battery which is 2-2.5 times larger.
Second factor is, that iPhones don't have USB. USB is provided as 'emulation' by an MCU on a CCT. And of course it's also more power consuming to emulate USB High-Speed-Mode than Full-Speed-Mode, this is also havin a share in increased power consumption...
Bottom line is - DFC is running in a High-Speed-Mode while even the Fast-Speed-Mode wasn't even remotely exhausted, without real technical need for that.

As Gordon pointed out, the whole DFC concept was even brought to life by AQ's attempts to use the High-Speed-Mode. They failed with an original MCU and were ready to abandon the project (power budget violation for iOS devices), but then they've got a new MCU and were able to make it work without a power budget violation. So, why the whole fuzz, if DFC still only accepts 96/24 max? Currently, it's a perfect example for over-engineering, which only introduces negative aspects (high battery drain) without any benefits at all...


----------



## Chikolad

McCol said:


> I wonder if drain is different on Android, I'm not seeing anything like 10% drain per hour via my Samsung handset.


Drains my LG v20 very quickly, especially if I'm using it at the time. But it's an old phone...


----------



## Chikolad

So 2 days ago it finally happened. Something clicked. 
I don't know if it's in my brain or in the unit itself, but all of a sudden things fell into place and I could hear what everybody was talking about. 
The highs are smoother now, and everything blends together instead of having a detailed sound where the details feel detached from the rest of the image. 
What's more, I no longer feel the need to EQ my i3 and can use bit-perfect playback on UAPP and enjoy MQA. 

Using a PC / laptop some albums can still sound too harsh. Through my phone that harshness is reduced. But it's the same using the Mojo (even with using a Jitterbug). 

Overall I'm happy now  and I don't have to limit myself to LG for my next phone!


----------



## a-LeXx (May 19, 2020)

Chikolad said:


> So 2 days ago it finally happened. Something clicked.
> I don't know if it's in my brain or in the unit itself, but all of a sudden things fell into place and I could hear what everybody was talking about.
> The highs are smoother now, and everything blends together instead of having a detailed sound where the details feel detached from the rest of the image.
> What's more, I no longer feel the need to EQ my i3 and can use bit-perfect playback on UAPP and enjoy MQA.
> ...


I guess it‘s more a brain burn in. You see, Mojo is using a brick-wall filter, DFC a minimum phase filter, that as a downside introduces some minor phase shifts at certain frequencies. However, a human‘s brain is very sensitive to phase shifts. So, probably your brain had to ‚learn‘ first to accept those minor phase shifts.
And yes, tidal with MQA is really nice sounding, never harsh, sometimes better than uncompressed hires versions of the same tracks. I guess they are applying some additional filtering at mastering stage when mastering for MQA...


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> I guess it‘s more a brain burn in. You see, Mojo is using a brick-wall filter, DFC a minimum phase filter, that as a downside introduces some minor phase shifts at certain frequencies. However, a human‘s brain is very sensitive to phase shifts. So, probably your brain had to ‚learn‘ first to accept those minor phase shifts.
> And yes, tidal with MQA is really nice sounding, never harsh, sometimes better than uncompressed hires versions of the same tracks. I guess they are applying some additional filtering at mastering stage when mastering for MQA...


Yes, I also lean towards my brain being the culprit. My brain is used to Mojo and Hugo 2. Chord DACs also take some adjusting of the brain (they sound good to begin with, but better after adjusting). Not sure which filter the LG uses.


----------



## a-LeXx

Chikolad said:


> Yes, I also lean towards my brain being the culprit. My brain is used to Mojo and Hugo 2. Chord DACs also take some adjusting of the brain (they sound good to begin with, but better after adjusting). Not sure which filter the LG uses.


I thought you can even select a filter on LG. Or is it only on G7? It's a pity you cannot adjust it on any dragonfly model, all ESS dacs offer a wide selection of filters plus custom filters...


----------



## soundblast75

Got mint one for sale, PM if you like, thanks


----------



## Chikolad

a-LeXx said:


> I thought you can even select a filter on LG. Or is it only on G7? It's a pity you cannot adjust it on any dragonfly model, all ESS dacs offer a wide selection of filters plus custom filters...


Not on the V20. I didn't even know that option existed.


----------



## 118900

drykoke said:


> I kept my HD600 in a cupboard for years and years because it was so unexciting and undynamic to listen to. Then I got the DFR and, wow that was the first time I started to appreciate the strengths of the HD600!


just goes to show how personal preferences and variables in pairing influence things.

I am always wary when people ask me for my impressions about a "sound" (although I'm also the first to ask the same thing LOL). What sounds like gold to me may sound like rubbish to the person asking. Nothing ever beats listening for yourself and, if possible, borrowing equipment for a few days, especially if its new.

One thing I don't recall from your previous comments, have you tried the DFR with your LCD-i3s? could that give you the sound you are looking for?


----------



## drykoke

juansan said:


> What sounds like gold to me may sound like rubbish to the person asking. Nothing ever beats listening for yourself and, if possible, borrowing equipment for a few days, especially if its new.
> 
> One thing I don't recall from your previous comments, have you tried the DFR with your LCD-i3s? could that give you the sound you are looking for?


Hi, yes, headphone pairings are particularly personal and there's no substitute for testing it yourself because shape of the head and ear canals can make a huge difference.

Sorry, but I think McCol is the guy with the LCD-i3; I bought my DFC from him on another forum (assuming same person based on username). I would love to have a pair of Audeze to try; I wasn't too happy with Oppo PM-3 planars but perhaps DFR and DFC are more capable than the equipment I previously had.


----------



## mantsm

Is anyone using DFC with Hifiman Ananda headphones? Just wondering what were your experience?


----------



## a-LeXx (May 21, 2020)

I wouldn‘t use a dragonfly with any planars. The problem is, the output buffer is very weak. It can deliver voltage, but not much of a current. Which means, you are very likely to get some audible distortions due to clipping. A DFR/DFC is ok to drive IEMs or efficient dynamic headphones that do not drain much current.


----------



## musicday

Lotoo Paw S1 has the output of 120 mW@32 ohm for the 4.4 mm balanced. Should be plenty for a big variety of headphones.


----------



## a-LeXx

mantsm said:


> Is anyone using DFC with Hifiman Ananda headphones? Just wondering what were your experience?



Had a look at Ananda‘s specs, might actually work ok with DFC, they have a pretty high sensitivity for a planar...


----------



## 118900

drykoke said:


> Hi, yes, headphone pairings are particularly personal and there's no substitute for testing it yourself because shape of the head and ear canals can make a huge difference.
> 
> Sorry, but I think McCol is the guy with the LCD-i3; I bought my DFC from him on another forum (assuming same person based on username). I would love to have a pair of Audeze to try; I wasn't too happy with Oppo PM-3 planars but perhaps DFR and DFC are more capable than the equipment I previously had.


sorry, old age setting in!


----------



## McCol

drykoke said:


> Hi, yes, headphone pairings are particularly personal and there's no substitute for testing it yourself because shape of the head and ear canals can make a huge difference.
> 
> Sorry, but I think McCol is the guy with the LCD-i3; I bought my DFC from him on another forum (assuming same person based on username). I would love to have a pair of Audeze to try; I wasn't too happy with Oppo PM-3 planars but perhaps DFR and DFC are more capable than the equipment I previously had.



Yep, it's me with the LCD-I3.  I've also gone and bought another Cobalt after reading through the thread on Av forums!!,  Glad I did though, I'm not sure why I didn't take to it first time round but really enjoying it this time.

Saying that I haven't tried the Audeze I3 wit the Cobalt.  I use the I3 with the Cipher and an anker adapter so I can use with my Android handset.  I may give it a try though as I have the EQ settings to mimic the Cipher DSP on the USB Audio Player Pro.


----------



## balleklorin

Just got a new one. Very tight fit and no rattle. The old one from the first batch was like a rattlesnake!


----------



## Bercanees

Hi!

just want to share my A/B comparing between the DFC and FiiO BTR5.

The FiiO was tested as a DAC, not with its Bluetooth hence the fair comparison. I used the unbalanced single ended 3.5mm jack instead of balance in this test I do not at present have a balanced cable. Maybe next time when I get my next IEM as I understand balanced has a better quality given it used both DACs to drive it.

Source would be Tidal

I use the JH13V2 Pro, a pretty high end IEM. The difference is huge in terms of the quality between the 2, where DFC wins in favor. I have read other posts where some would give up their DFC having cited that the difference is minimal. I would beg to differ.

Dynamic range, layering, sound stage, extension are all so much better with the DFC. The FiiO BTR5 brings you out of the “space” while the DFC brings you right into it.

However despite the noticeable difference, both the DFC and FiiO BTR5 serves different functions. My DFC is my go to DAC for critical listening in the comfort of my chair / room. The FiiO is my go to for on the move, work, Bluetooth capabilities and to a certain extent, convenience while still allowing me to use my wired IEM. For the record, I have been through some of the beet True Wireless Earphones, I just can’t...maybe
I am just spoilt...haha

The FiiO is fantastic for its price point, above average quality and its Bluetooth capabilities are all great. Cherry on the top is its twin mic feature which works fantastic, having tested with my business meetings and didn’t face any issues so far.

My DFC is like my mini mojo, having bested the Chord in view of form factor and superb sonic quality. While I agree that the mojo is just a bit better, I wouldn’t trade off the portability and ease of handling the DFC. No battery charging, no frills, just plug, play and enjoy superb quality music.

Hope this helps, from my perspective.

BTW: I do not use high impedance headphones. Just IEMs and the 99 Classics. Both of which I really love and think have found my peace with.


----------



## psikey (Jun 1, 2020)

Bercanees said:


> Hi!
> 
> just want to share my A/B comparing between the DFC and FiiO BTR5.
> 
> ...



Try it on balanced, 3.5mm is nothing special. I had a DFR and DFC and I'm one who sold the DFC and kept the BTR5.

Not saying the DFC is bad but the BTR5 over balanced can do so much more, sound as good or better and only £85. No brainer. This opinion is with me using Shure SE846's and Noble K10U.

If listening via 3.5mm and didn't need BT, from SQ alone via 3.5mm I would pick the DFC. The BTR5 only uses its twin DAC's and secondary circuit over balanced.

For convenience I would also choose the DFC over Mojo (and did). The Mojo has issues if using a mobile as a source with radio interference.


----------



## Bercanees

psikey said:


> Try it on balanced, 3.5mm is nothing special. I had a DFR and DFC and I'm one who sold the DFC and kept the BTR5.
> 
> Not saying the DFC is bad but the BTR5 over balanced can do so much more, sound as good or better and only £85. No brainer. This opinion is with me using Shure SE846's and Noble K10U.
> 
> ...



Great thank you for sharing your experience too. Will have to look up on the balance connector and can most likely do so on my next upcoming IEM.


----------



## 118900

psikey said:


> Try it on balanced, 3.5mm is nothing special. I had a DFR and DFC and I'm one who sold the DFC and kept the BTR5.
> 
> Not saying the DFC is bad but the BTR5 over balanced can do so much more, sound as good or better and only £85. No brainer. This opinion is with me using Shure SE846's and Noble K10U.
> 
> ...


what is your take on the Noble versus the Shures? I have the SE846's as well and I am curious about how they stack up against the Noble sound signature. Which filter do you use on the Shures?


----------



## psikey (Jun 2, 2020)

juansan said:


> what is your take on the Noble versus the Shures? I have the SE846's as well and I am curious about how they stack up against the Noble sound signature. Which filter do you use on the Shures?



Shure's are still best for fit & durability and I will never sell them. Noble slightly better overall sound quality and only bought them because I managed to get 2nd hand for £470 and like you, always been curious how another "high-end" compares to SE846's. 

I was actually pleased how well the K10U did base seeing as SE846 has the custom woofer thing, and highs are better on the K10U.

If I could only keep one set it would still be my SE846's (middle filter it comes installed with so blue I think?)

If your purely interested in  the "best" sound quality of the two then K10U.

I'm tending to use my SE846 with short cable and BTR5 when out and the K10U wired at home.


----------



## 118900

psikey said:


> Shure's are still best for fit & durability and I will never sell them. Noble slightly better overall sound quality and only bought them because I managed to get 2nd hand for £470 and like you, always been curious how another "high-end" compares to SE846's.
> 
> I was actually pleased how well the K10U did base seeing as SE846 has the custom woofer thing, and highs are better on the K10U.
> 
> ...


I use the blue filter as well. thanks for taking the time to write that, much appreciated.


----------



## PedroT

Hello everyone,

I was searching for a DAC for a while and I saw written in the website that the Dragonfly Cobalt could be paired with a 250ohm (DT 770) and sound great, which is not true with my device.
My portable computer makes my 32 ohm headphones way louder then my brand new Dragonfly Cobalt. My 250ohms headphones couldn't be quieter pluged on my Dragonfly Cobalt. 
Once I try to search for updates or just to see the serial number of my Dragonfly I've nothing.
Got no news from AudioQuest team, did you ever encountered this problem? 

windows 10 64bits, usb 3 and everything s:
2 images from a usb software showing power and etc. 
One from my Dragonfly and another from a usb 3 flash drive










Thank you guys, 
Pedro


----------



## a-LeXx (Jun 2, 2020)

PedroT said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was searching for a DAC for a while and I saw written in the website that the Dragonfly Cobalt could be paired with a 250ohm (DT 770) and sound great, which is not true with my device.
> My portable computer makes my 32 ohm headphones way louder then my brand new Dragonfly Cobalt. My 250ohms headphones couldn't be quieter pluged on my Dragonfly Cobalt.
> ...



Something‘s wrong with a volume setting on your windows pc and/or your music app. DFC can output up to 2V. At that level, your head would explode if you‘ve tried this.

However, DT770 250 Ohm is a very bad match for DFC, it will most probably distort at higher volumes. You need an amp for DT770, DFC is just a DAC...


----------



## PedroT

Thank you for your time ! 
I followed the guide from DFC completly. Even with the 32ohm the sound sucks, the jack from my computer is way better than the sound from DFC, with the same settings. Updated drivers from usb and everything. Nothing is working.
Wasn't expecting the 250ohms to work at 100% was just expecting to have them to be decently driven by DFC but is so quiet :|
( Any idea of amp to pair with the DFC on a budget ? )
Thank you again


----------



## a-LeXx

PedroT said:


> Thank you for your time !
> I followed the guide from DFC completly. Even with the 32ohm the sound sucks, the jack from my computer is way better than the sound from DFC, with the same settings. Updated drivers from usb and everything. Nothing is working.
> Wasn't expecting the 250ohms to work at 100% was just expecting to have them to be decently driven by DFC but is so quiet :|
> ( Any idea of amp to pair with the DFC on a budget ? )
> Thank you again


I use Fiio A5 as a mobile amp. That one would easily drive your Beyer.


----------



## drykoke

PedroT said:


> I followed the guide from DFC completly. Even with the 32ohm the sound sucks, the jack from my computer is way better than the sound from DFC, with the same settings. Updated drivers from usb and everything. Nothing is working.
> Wasn't expecting the 250ohms to work at 100% was just expecting to have them to be decently driven by DFC but is so quiet :|


I think your DFC is faulty. Hardware problem.
With Sennheiser HD600 300ohm, I have the Windows 10 volume control set at 25/100 and it is very very loud.
With Fiio FH5 19ohm IEM, I set the volume to 4/100.

It's no point buying an amp if your DFC is faulty. All you will get is amplified bad sound.

Suggest you try some more diagnostic work e.g. use the DFC on a different Windows 10 machine, different music palyer,  and try to connect to different phones. Then you will be able to eliminate all the variables that could be contributing to the problem.


----------



## a-LeXx

drykoke said:


> I think your DFC is faulty. Hardware problem.
> With Sennheiser HD600 300ohm, I have the Windows 10 volume control set at 25/100 and it is very very loud.
> With Fiio FH5 19ohm IEM, I set the volume to 4/100.
> 
> ...



Right, agree. However, HD600 is actually more sensitive than DT770. DT770 needs double the voltage to get you the same sound pressure level compared to Senn. Theoretically DFC is enough to drive even the DT250 to very loud levels, but it would be operating with not much headroom, which is usually not very beneficial for sound quality and low distortions. I would use an amp.


----------



## PedroT

a-LeXx said:


> Right, agree. However, HD600 is actually more sensitive than DT770. DT770 needs double the voltage to get you the same sound pressure level compared to Senn. Theoretically DFC is enough to drive even the DT250 to very loud levels, but it would be operating with not much headroom, which is usually not very beneficial for sound quality and low distortions. I would use an amp.



Thank you both, very much, tried in another W10 machine, same thing. No support whatsoever from AudioQuest part, it's quite frustrating might send back for a refound and try a 2nd unit


----------



## PedroT

a-LeXx said:


> I use Fiio A5 as a mobile amp. That one would easily drive your Beyer.


And you paired it with a DAC? Searched everywhere seems like I can't buy it brand new here in Europe, it's shame because the price was great.
Another more recent mobile amp that can drive my DT770 250 ohms and maybe pair it with the DFC ?
Thank you again !


----------



## a-LeXx (Jun 3, 2020)

Seems they've discontinued it, it's a shame, was still available a few months ago. I plug it into the DFR to drive my HD600, sounds magically, better than my desktop gear for around 1500 Euro...

I never liked my HD600 off my desktop setup, nor much directly on a DFR. But DFR+A5 on high gain is a completely different strory. I like HD600 on this chain more than my other headphones that are 5-6 times dearer...


----------



## Oo Meitar oO

Hi all, 
Wiggle problem here. So I've had the dfc for almost a year now, and since the very beginning they had the known wiggle of the USB/headphone jack. This was never an issue soundwise. 

HOWEVER, today it started giving problems such that in some angles of wiggle I lose sound in the right earpiece. No force is needed, even just picking it up I can lose the sound.

Did this happen to anyone? 

I would have used my warranty but I bought it abroad and we don't have warranty service where I live. International shipping is also a real pain (if even possible) now under COVID-19.

I'm contemplating using some superglue to glue it to the balanced angle. Wanted to know your thoughts..

Thanks a lot!!


----------



## WyattEarp

Oo Meitar oO said:


> Hi all,
> Wiggle problem here. So I've had the dfc for almost a year now, and since the very beginning they had the known wiggle of the USB/headphone jack. This was never an issue soundwise.
> 
> HOWEVER, today it started giving problems such that in some angles of wiggle I lose sound in the right earpiece. No force is needed, even just picking it up I can lose the sound.
> ...



I would contact AQ and see what they say. I had purchased mine last year around Xmas and about a month in I noticed it became loose then over time it started cutting out. It eventually got to the point that last month it did so to many times for me to count while just walking a few blocks. I did an RMA and AQ sent me a brand new one that feels much more solid than the one i purchased.


----------



## Oo Meitar oO

WyattEarp said:


> I would contact AQ and see what they say. I had purchased mine last year around Xmas and about a month in I noticed it became loose then over time it started cutting out. It eventually got to the point that last month it did so to many times for me to count while just walking a few blocks. I did an RMA and AQ sent me a brand new one that feels much more solid than the one i purchased.


Thanks! sent you a private message


----------



## 1adam12

Has anyone used this with an Andromeda or Solaris? I'm curious if there's any hiss.


----------



## cpaulik

1adam12 said:


> Has anyone used this with an Andromeda or Solaris? I'm curious if there's any hiss.


I‘ve used the Cobalt with my Andromeda SS for a while. There was no hiss when the Cobalt was attached to a Battery powered device. There can however be some hiss/interference if e.g. the cobalt is connected to a laptop which has unclean power. This happened to me when I had my laptop connected to the power in a train.


----------



## 118900

Oo Meitar oO said:


> Thanks! sent you a private message


Don't forget that AQ acknowledged the problem with the original production run of the DFC therefore you have a very good chance of getting a replacement regardless of warranty


----------



## GenMen

Final decided to grab a DFC, paired with Shure SE846, being trying a couple of days but have a problem, if a play through Tidal app there's a hiss in low comfortable volume, same hiss appears in UAPP if I don't allow the app to take control of de DAC.
But if I play through UAPP allowing it to take control of DFC it's dead quiet, doesn't make a hiss at all, but also noticed that this way non MQA titles sound worse than at Tidal's app even with the hiss (the problem is that, as you know, if I allow UAPP to control the DFC I can't listen to any other source).
Any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## McCol

GenMen said:


> Final decided to grab a DFC, paired with Shure SE846, being trying a couple of days but have a problem, if a play through Tidal app there's a hiss in low comfortable volume, same hiss appears in UAPP if I don't allow the app to take control of de DAC.
> But if I play through UAPP allowing it to take control of DFC it's dead quiet, doesn't make a hiss at all, but also noticed that this way non MQA titles sound worse than at Tidal's app even with the hiss (the problem is that, as you know, if I allow UAPP to control the DFC I can't listen to any other source).
> Any advice would be much appreciated.


Using a Samsung by any chance?


----------



## GenMen

McCol said:


> Using a Samsung by any chance?


 Indeed, Galaxy Note 10+


----------



## GenMen

McCol said:


> Using a Samsung by any chance?


Why you ask this? Is a known issue?


----------



## McCol

GenMen said:


> Why you ask this? Is a known issue?



Yes, Samsung have acknowledged issues and won't guarantee that their handsets will work with all USB devices.  It's worth looking at the threads on the Samsung community forums


----------



## supadupaninja

Hello guys,

I’m using my DFC with my iPhone and iPad. After pausing the playback the DFC starts repeatedly going on and off. Sometimes I get an error message too. My DFR did’t behave that way as I remember.

Anyone else with an Apple device has this issue or ist this normal behavior?

BR
Dimitri


----------



## OctopusKing

Would love to see how it compares to the lotoo paw s1. Any comments?


----------



## a-LeXx

supadupaninja said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I’m using my DFC with my iPhone and iPad. After pausing the playback the DFC starts repeatedly going on and off. Sometimes I get an error message too. My DFR did’t behave that way as I remember.
> 
> ...


Nope, working perfectly for me. What kind of CCK are you using, original Apple? If it's with an original CCK, then your DFC is most probably defective...


----------



## Yesthereisgasinthecar

supadupaninja said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I’m using my DFC with my iPhone and iPad. After pausing the playback the DFC starts repeatedly going on and off. Sometimes I get an error message too. My DFR did’t behave that way as I remember.
> 
> ...


My DFC is also working fine (iPhone X). I am using the Apple lightning to USB adapter.


----------



## anandabd

I am considering DFC for my Samsung Galaxy S10 Exynos version. Can anyone confirm that DFC prefomanse with S10?


----------



## Joaquin Dinero

PedroT said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was searching for a DAC for a while and I saw written in the website that the Dragonfly Cobalt could be paired with a 250ohm (DT 770) and sound great, which is not true with my device.
> My portable computer makes my 32 ohm headphones way louder then my brand new Dragonfly Cobalt. My 250ohms headphones couldn't be quieter pluged on my Dragonfly Cobalt.
> ...



Hello Pedro T.

 I have been experiencing this exact same problem with my DFC using Windows. The sound that comes out of is delicious, but it is soooooo quiet. I have to pair it with another amp. I've used it with a Schitt Magni 3 for headphoning, and with my big boy Onkyo receiver through Klipsch speakers. I have to turn the Onkyo up almost half-way to get decent volume. I would blow out the speakers if I turned it up that high with any other source. But OMG it sounds so good that way. I thought I wanted to upgrade my stereo speakers but now I don't think I'll need to.  

I've seen speculation that it is some Windows setting, but its nothing I can find. I have two other USB DAC/amps, a Cyrus Soundkey and an IFi Zen DAC. Neither of them have this problem so if it was some global Windows USB setting you'd think it would manifest for any type of device like this. 

I'm curious if you any found out any more so you first posted ?

P.S. If you're disappointed with the DFC I recommend the Cyrus Soundkey. It runs my 250 ohm Beyer DT 990s without any trouble, sounds 90% as good as DFC and costs 25% as much. And no volume problems.


----------



## supadupaninja

Thx for the replies above. Got it replaced. The new one is all working fine now.


----------



## anandabd

Is anyone successful using Samsung galaxy S10  exynos with DFC? Please let me know your experience.


----------



## McCol

anandabd said:


> Is anyone successful using Samsung galaxy S10  exynos with DFC? Please let me know your experience.
> tu



It works fine but you have to use UAPP app to avoid the pops and crackles from the Samsung handset.  Audioquest explained it to me, something to with Android and sample rates.  Samsung have chosen not to resolve the issue across 2 generations of phones


----------



## anandabd

McCol said:


> It works fine but you have to use UAPP app to avoid the pops and crackles from the Samsung handset.  Audioquest explained it to me, something to with Android and sample rates.  Samsung have chosen not to resolve the issue across 2 generations of phones


Then how do we use Spotify or Tidal or Amazon Music? These are my purpose of using DFC with S10.


----------



## TK33

anandabd said:


> Then how do we use Spotify or Tidal or Amazon Music? These are my purpose of using DFC with S10.


Spotify and Amazon Music do not have UAPP integration.  This is one of the reasons I downgraded from Amazon HD to Amazon Unlimited and got Qobuz instead. UAPP does support Qobuz and Tidal.


----------



## McCol

anandabd said:


> Then how do we use Spotify or Tidal or Amazon Music? These are my purpose of using DFC with S10.


Tidal can be used with UAPP but not to download as can Qobus.
Its a real pain as other android handsets work fine from what I've read.  Samsung are aware of the issue and choose not to remedy


----------



## Steve Wilcox

McCol said:


> Tidal can be used with UAPP but not to download as can Qobus.
> Its a real pain as other android handsets work fine from what I've read.  Samsung are aware of the issue and choose not to remedy


Can I clarify?   Are you saying you can download Qobuz tracks in uapp?


----------



## McCol

Steve Wilcox said:


> Can I clarify?   Are you saying you can download Qobuz tracks in uapp?


No sorry,  wasn't very clear.
Streaming only for Tidal/Qobus.  UAPP us really good though,  however it annoys me that Samsung won't remedy this issue. 
Their stance us that they won't guarantee a USB products will be compatible with handsets, puts it back to the companies.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Thanks.  Thought for a mo I was missing a trick!


----------



## anandabd

McCol said:


> No sorry,  wasn't very clear.
> Streaming only for Tidal/Qobus.  UAPP us really good though,  however it annoys me that Samsung won't remedy this issue.
> Their stance us that they won't guarantee a USB products will be compatible with handsets, puts it back to the companies.


That's really unfortunate. I can't change my phone now. One option is to get a dedicated 200$ phone 😅.
Currently I am using iBasso DX160 DAP. I just don't like the interface, WiFi range, though the sound quality is good. 
How is the sound quality of DFC compared to a DAP?.


----------



## TK33

anandabd said:


> That's really unfortunate. I can't change my phone now. One option is to get a dedicated 200$ phone 😅.
> Currently I am using iBasso DX160 DAP. I just don't like the interface, WiFi range, though the sound quality is good.
> How is the sound quality of DFC compared to a DAP?.


I'm pretty happy using UAPP/Qobuz with my DFC on my Samsung Galaxy S9, although I do have two V60s on the way too. I think I will continue to use the DFC with the S9 at home, even after I get the V60 (which will be more for on the go once commuting starts again) as I really like the DFC with the SE846 and I like how UAPP gets me bitperfect output to the DFC with the correct sample rate.  I got the dual screen version of the V60 so I imagine I will just keep using my DFC with the S9 as opposed toremoving the V60 from the case every night. Seems to work great on Samsung phones as long as you use UAPP, which I think you would want to use anyway if you want bitperfect playback on Android.


----------



## a-LeXx

anandabd said:


> That's really unfortunate. I can't change my phone now. One option is to get a dedicated 200$ phone 😅.
> Currently I am using iBasso DX160 DAP. I just don't like the interface, WiFi range, though the sound quality is good.
> How is the sound quality of DFC compared to a DAP?.



Get a used iphone, that‘s what I did. Eliminates a need for UAPP, best support from all apps and works flawlessly with a DFC...

I‘m actually a life-long android user for phones, so got an iphone to be used as a DAP only. Android is a pita when used with external DACs...


----------



## drykoke

McCol said:


> Streaming only for Tidal/Qobus.  UAPP is really good though,  however it annoys me that Samsung won't remedy this issue.


Thanks Colin, very helpful.
Despite being a non-believer, I downloaded UAPP as per your suggestion and it works perfectly on my previously troublesome Huawei.
Tidal streaming sounds so much better on your (now mine) DFC, I am very pleasantly surprised.


----------



## McCol

drykoke said:


> Thanks Colin, very helpful.
> Despite being a non-believer, I downloaded UAPP as per your suggestion and it works perfectly on my previously troublesome Huawei.
> Tidal streaming sounds so much better on your (now mine) DFC, I am very pleasantly surprised.



I bought the DFC again a few weeks ago!!


----------



## anandabd

McCol said:


> I bought the DFC again a few weeks ago!!


So with Samsung and UAPP, Spotify, Amazon Music can't be used. Tidal can be used as per my understanding. So can we use offline in Tidal? How about getting a 150 $ Xiaomi phone with cobalt, will it perform better than DX160? 

I like the concept of cobalt as it is versatile and portable. But at this price point there are several midrange DAP. Or just spending a bit more we can get M11 pro.


----------



## McCol

anandabd said:


> So with Samsung and UAPP, Spotify, Amazon Music can't be used. Tidal can be used as per my understanding. So can we use offline in Tidal? How about getting a 150 $ Xiaomi phone with cobalt, will it perform better than DX160?
> 
> I like the concept of cobalt as it is versatile and portable. But at this price point there are several midrange DAP. Or just spending a bit more we can get M11 pro.



For me the Cobalt doesn't match my IFI-audio idsd micro or the Fiio M15.  I've not heard the DX160 so can't comment, however I would say it's very close to both the Fiio Q5s and Chord Mojo, not saying better but very close and way more portable than both of those options.


----------



## shizzin

So how do the Cobalt and Red compare? Just ordered a red.


----------



## tracyca

Sony IER Z1R + Cobalt + Periodic Nickel Amp = Musical Bless!


----------



## Swisshead

*Audioquest Fan-Boy!*   






Must admit, I've heard the cobalt for over a month, but not 10 minutes yet. 

Gotta make up for that. But I loved the ten minutes of it. For such a puny little thing, it's an awful lot of work. Really enormous the technical progress. You wouldn't think it possible. I tried Audioquest and Clear. With Nighthawk excellent, with the Clear the performance is clearly missing. It needs a portion of extra power to blossom. 

But for the iPad an excellent solution. Especially since it works with USB-C!

No like, clear thumbs up!


----------



## fair grinch

1adam12 said:


> Has anyone used this with an Andromeda or Solaris? I'm curious if there's any hiss.



I am using it with Solaris (model prior 2020), iPhone 11 Pro Max and Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter. There is little hiss noticeable when music is not playing and You are in a quiet room. However for me it is not noticeable when music is playing. Though a personal thing. 

Two more hints.

I am listening music on relatively low volume levels and for example minimal volume with Tidal was too high for me. 

I did not tried charging iPhone and listening to music at once with Solaris but I did so with Moondrop Kanas Pro and it started to hiss whereas it does not hiss when not charging.


----------



## shizzin

tracyca said:


> Sony IER Z1R + Cobalt + Periodic Nickel Amp = Musical Bless!


Can you say a few words about the portable amp? I see it as another thing to carry but I'm interested in how it improves the signal over the dragonfly alone. Would it reduce hiss, for example? And I am waiting on a dragonfly red.


----------



## tracyca

the nickel amp adds a little top end sparkle that pairs with the dynamics of the cobalt. this combo brings top end Rez to the music. The nickel amp has no hiss with Andromeda or Solaris that I own. The cobalt is no slouch by its self.


----------



## Joaquin Dinero

shizzin said:


> So how do the Cobalt and Red compare? Just ordered a red.


Most reviews  that I've read say the Cobalt is hardly different than the Red.


----------



## Bercanees

Joaquin Dinero said:


> Most reviews  that I've read say the Cobalt is hardly different than the Red.



Best is to do an A/B test yourself.


----------



## anandabd

Just ordered DFC for galaxy S10. It will be delivered next week.

As a preparation I have purchased and installed USB Audio Player Pro. Just to check I have connected my FIIO BTR3K in USB dac mode with in Galaxy S10, it detected BTR3K. 

But strangely I am only able to listen to Tidal MQA files with BTR3K dac mode, none of my google music or any mp3/AAC files are audible. They are being played but no sound is coming from my headphone. Only MQA files are audible. 

By the way, when BTR3K is connected without USB audio pro, it plays all files without any issue.

Will it be a problem for DFC also? Why in the DAC mode the mp3 files are not audible with UAPP?


----------



## a-LeXx

Joaquin Dinero said:


> Most reviews  that I've read say the Cobalt is hardly different than the Red.



Cobalt = Red - Noise + around 1.5 times higher power consumption
I have and use both


----------



## shizzin

a-LeXx said:


> Cobalt = Red - Noise + around 1.5 times higher power consumption
> I have and use both


Thanks for the info, will keep this in mind when using Red with andro.


----------



## gooeyrich

Can anyone give a quick rundown on the main competitors to the Audioquest/Dragonfly products?


----------



## Bercanees

gooeyrich said:


> Can anyone give a quick rundown on the main competitors to the Audioquest/Dragonfly products?



Notable ones:
1. Chord mojo
2. ifi xDSD 
3. ifi Hip DAC
4. EarStudio ES100
5. Fiio Q1 Mark 2
6. Fiio BTR5
7. Fiio E12A
8. Fiio Q5s
9. Ifi nana iDSD BL

I am aware those with BT capabilities might be different due to features, but these are some of the notable portal ones I am aware of. There are quite a number more in the market but it usually just boils down to a few key ones and the choice is really based on personal preference.

For example, Chord Mojo May sound a little bit better than the Dragonfly Cobalt but the convenience of the DFC is far superior. Mojo is a bit dated too though it still an excellent product.

Fiio BTR5 is super small, packs a punch, may not be as good as the xDSD but again, convenience and how close it is to the xDSD makes it a great value purchase. That’s why the Fiio BTR5 is selling like hot cakes.


----------



## TK33

Bercanees said:


> Notable ones:
> 1. Chord mojo
> 2. ifi xDSD
> 3. ifi Hip DAC
> ...


Since you mention the ES100 and BTR5, I would add the Qudelix 5k to the list. Preorders just started shipping a few weeks ago (June 16, 2020) but I really like my 5K much better than the ES100. Still a lot of bugs to work out but a great first product from a new company started by the guy who, i think, designed the ES100.

In my opinion, the bluetooth receivers are really no match for the DFC in terms of SQ and the Cobalt sounds much more dynamic and has much better soundstage and separation than either the ES100 or the 5K. As mentioned above, they have different feature sets and use cases.


----------



## Bercanees

TK33 said:


> Since you mention the ES100 and BTR5, I would add the Qudelix 5k to the list. Preorders just started shipping a few weeks ago (June 16, 2020) but I really like my 5K much better than the ES100. Still a lot of bugs to work out but a great first product from a new company started by the guy who, i think, designed the ES100.
> 
> In my opinion, the bluetooth receivers are really no match for the DFC in terms of SQ and the Cobalt sounds much more dynamic and has much better soundstage and separation than either the ES100 or the 5K. As mentioned above, they have different feature sets and use cases.



Yes, agreed on using the BT function which wouldn’t match the DFC. I have tried using the BTR5 in wired mode and it’s really good. Since I have the DFC, while I can tell the difference, it’s really not far off when it’s compared Apple to Apple, on wired connection. However since I do not have a balanced cable with 2.5mm jack, I can’t text the balanced output on my BTR5 which I read it’s a lot better than the single ended 3.5mm output.

The DFC wins in details retrieval, greater resolution while the BTR5 is a bit warmer. So for those who feel that the DFC is a lot more expensive as compared to the BTR5 and would like a lower cost option with Bluetooth, the BTR5 is my highly recommended option. Fantastic value for money. Fiio does create some incredible products.

Gear used for this is the JH13V2 Pro.


----------



## anandabd (Jul 14, 2020)

Received the DFC yesterday, and using it with Samsung Galaxy S10 exynos version mainly.
It is working surprisingly well! I already had the UAPP installed. As soon as I connect the DFC with the supplied dragon tail adapter the UAPP pops up, detects the DFC. I have also purchased the bit perfect MQA in app module. So the MQA files of Tidal plays via UAPP, with the purple light indicator, and with my Andromeda it sounds amazing, there is absolutely no noise.
To use other apps like spotify, youtube, amazon prime music I just have to click "no" to the pop up by UAPP. Everything is probably up scaled to 48 kHz (blue color), but no popping and clicking sound (as reported in Samsung forums), and sounds surprisingly well!
It is working with my Microsoft Surface Pro, Dell desktop with excellent sound quality. It is very loud and powerful, I have to use it with very low volume with Andromeda. The sound-stage, clarity is very good.

I also am not having any rattling or quality issue. My unit seems to be built quite well. The leather case also quite good; I have realized if I press the side of the case to make it open and flip, it comes out quite easily.

I also have the BTR3K from FIIO, in terms of sound quality in wired or wireless mode, DFC is way ahead, there is no competition.  But for Bluetooth functionality and convenience it is an excellent device.  

Overall DFC is an excellent investment, I would highly recommend it.


----------



## Swisshead

Here by the way a quite outstanding combination, I am surprised myself how good it is!

iPad Pro with Qobuz, Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt and the LCDi3. Had tried it with the iSine. That was nothing. The iSine20s are simply terribly tuned. Nothing fits and without EQ or cipher with DSP it sounds awful. For the i4, the Cobalt doesn't have enough power, so they don't really flourish. So let's try the i3 and see, it fits!

Beautiful sound, excellent bass, extremely clean, absolutely not exaggerated, excellent. Absolutely clear in the middle, slightly emphasized and with a very nice transition from the bass range. It doesn't interfere with that. The trebles a dream. Extremely clean, clear but not poisonous or sibiliant at all. Add to that the openness of the i3, spacious, wide stage. Yes, everything excellent!

The ciphers are even slightly more bass and trebles are a bit reduced. But this solution is definitely massively better than the BT cable. This is definitely a throw-away, sorry Audeze. But this is far below the dignity of the i3. Therefore I prefer this solution. Since I don't have an adapter USB-C to the cipher yet and these are available in Switzerland, the Cobalt is an extremely successful solution, even better than Cipher. I can absolutely recommend it to everybody!


----------



## alexlevn0791

Does this have enough power to drive full size planar headphone like the Dan Clark Aeon Flow 2 for example?


----------



## Swisshead

No, the power is too small for an AEON. You can hear, it gets quite loud too, but it lacks dynamics and bass. Especially the AEON needs massive power to give its best. Especially for a nice bass it needs many many watts! 

For me it sounds best with the iCan, which is bursting with power! Cobalt is good for the i3, it hardly needs any power, the Clear is still good, the Nighthawk is very good. But AEON and ZMF can be forgotten. He has clearly too little power.


----------



## Ultrainferno

stereonerd said:


> Hoping to hear a review of the EarMen Sparrow - Which looks very promising for the price, $100 lower than the cobalt. Anyone have any information? https://earmen-shop.com/products/sparrow



In today's review we tell you how good the SParrow actually is and how it compares to the AudioQuest DragonFly units.

Now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/earmen-sparrow-review/


----------



## Joaquin Dinero

anandabd said:


> Received the DFC yesterday, and using it with Samsung Galaxy S10 exynos version mainly.
> It is working surprisingly well! I already had the UAPP installed. As soon as I connect the DFC with the supplied dragon tail adapter the UAPP pops up, detects the DFC. I have also purchased the bit perfect MQA in app module. So the MQA files of Tidal plays via UAPP, with the purple light indicator, and with my Andromeda it sounds amazing, there is absolutely no noise.
> To use other apps like spotify, youtube, amazon prime music I just have to click "no" to the pop up by UAPP. Everything is probably up scaled to 48 kHz (blue color), but no popping and clicking sound (as reported in Samsung forums), and sounds surprisingly well!
> It is working with my Microsoft Surface Pro, Dell desktop with excellent sound quality. It is very loud and powerful, I have to use it with very low volume with Andromeda. The sound-stage, clarity is very good.
> ...



Did you need to update any sound settings in Windows for the Surface or the Dell ? I've tried mine on three different Windows machines and I cant get decent volume out of it any which way I try.


----------



## anandabd

Joaquin Dinero said:


> Did you need to update any sound settings in Windows for the Surface or the Dell ? I've tried mine on three different Windows machines and I cant get decent volume out of it any which way I try.


As soon as plugged the dragonfly the sound source has changed to dragonfly cobalt 1.0. When I opened Tidal it actually changed the volume to very low, thankfully. Actually I find the volume to be very loud. I wish I could control the volume with finer level. I have the windows 10 professional installed in my surface pro 7 with all the latest updates. The DFC was literally plug and play. Though my experiences are limited to IEMs like Andromeda, FH7 etc.


----------



## Joaquin Dinero

anandabd said:


> As soon as plugged the dragonfly the sound source has changed to dragonfly cobalt 1.0. When I opened Tidal it actually changed the volume to very low, thankfully. Actually I find the volume to be very loud. I wish I could control the volume with finer level. I have the windows 10 professional installed in my surface pro 7 with all the latest updates. The DFC was literally plug and play. Though my experiences are limited to IEMs like Andromeda, FH7 etc.



Thx for the info. Mine got the "plug and play" part right, it just doesn't put out much sound. I'm suspicious that I got a defective unit.


----------



## TK33

anandabd said:


> As soon as plugged the dragonfly the sound source has changed to dragonfly cobalt 1.0. When I opened Tidal it actually changed the volume to very low, thankfully. Actually I find the volume to be very loud. I wish I could control the volume with finer level. I have the windows 10 professional installed in my surface pro 7 with all the latest updates. The DFC was literally plug and play. Though my experiences are limited to IEMs like Andromeda, FH7 etc.



I also just use mine with IEMs (mostly the SE846) and also find it very loud with IEMs (android, surface pro 4 and Windows 10 desktop).  On my desktop PC, I usually use Qobuz (exclusive mode) or Roon and have to set the volume at 1 or 2 out of 100. Think it just depends on what you are using with the Cobalt.


----------



## Bercanees

Yes you are not wrong. The DFC is best for IEMs. Though it can power some cans, more amping power given to those can really set them singing.

DFC is about best portability with highest SQ in the smallest package IMO. It isn’t the cheapest but you get what you pay for.

IMHO Mojo still rules for the best in SQ in terms of true portable DACs.


----------



## drykoke

Joaquin Dinero said:


> Thx for the info. Mine got the "plug and play" part right, it just doesn't put out much sound. I'm suspicious that I got a defective unit.


Definitely faulty. Both my DFR and DFC can drive all sorts of headphones very loudly on Windows 10.


----------



## Bercanees

I think it can drive up to 300 ohms but anything more, you will need better amps. I do not have any of such within my gear list but I read that the tops it can do is within the 300 mark and you would have to turn up the volume pretty high to get sometime decent.

Dragonfly is best for IEMs and lower impedance cans IMHO.


----------



## drykoke

Bercanees said:


> I think it can drive up to 300 ohms but anything more, you will need better amps. I do not have any of such within my gear list but I read that the tops it can do is within the 300 mark and you would have to turn up the volume pretty high to get sometime decent.
> 
> Dragonfly is best for IEMs and lower impedance cans IMHO.


Sorry I completely disagree. On Windows 10, I can drive my 300 ohm Hd600 very loudly at 30/ 100.


----------



## Bercanees

Thank you for the clarification. I think those who mentioned that it can’t probably used it with a smart phone?

as for myself, I do realize a lot more power when I use it with my computer too. But as an IEM user, I am usually at 5/100


----------



## drykoke

Bercanees said:


> Thank you for the clarification. I think those who mentioned that it can’t probably used it with a smart phone?


Yes, you are right. Android phones - some work well but some others have problems with volume or sound.


----------



## Bercanees

I see. I use an iPhone with a USB 3 camera Adapter (I believe it’s better than the standard) and jack it up with the DFC.


----------



## stephenlee2801

How do people view these as a direct upgrade to the original Dragonfly? I've been using the original as part of my setup at work (with Shure SE846) and have been quite happy with how simply but effective the setup is. Being able to use the Dragonfly with my Pixel would be a plus but would there be a substantial difference if I upgraded the original dragonfly to the cobalt for my work setup?


----------



## Bercanees

From what I know, if you are already a dragonfly user, it really depends if you want the upgrade to the Cobalt. The main differences are that the Cobalt doesn’t require the jitter bug and it does have a better DAC chip. Power draw is lesser but I only have the Cobalt and I have never tried the older versions. Probably for those who have the black may want to upgrade but if you have the Red, I read that people usually just stick with it. You probably need good gear and good ears to spot the difference since both are ESS DACs and the SQ are usually pretty forward leaning. 

Prior to the Cobalt, I was thorn between the Mojo and the Cobalt. I chose the Cobalt in view of ultra portability despite the Mojo having SQ I could never forget. I still don’t regret my decision till today as the Cobalt does have a special place. No batteries, slips inside my bag easily, I can use it in so many ways and all that with good SQ.

However my next would be something more significant and different which will not replace the Cobalt but complement another aspect of my setup.


----------



## drykoke

Bercanees said:


> From what I know, if you are already a dragonfly user, it really depends if you want the upgrade to the Cobalt. Probably for those who have the black may want to upgrade but if you have the Red, I read that people usually just stick with it. You probably need good gear and good ears to spot the difference since both are ESS DACs and the SQ are usually pretty forward leaning.


Cobalt is much more relaxed and natural, also less forward sounding than Red. Depends on your taste which is preferable.


----------



## stephenlee2801

Bercanees said:


> From what I know, if you are already a dragonfly user, it really depends if you want the upgrade to the Cobalt. The main differences are that the Cobalt doesn’t require the jitter bug and it does have a better DAC chip. Power draw is lesser but I only have the Cobalt and I have never tried the older versions. Probably for those who have the black may want to upgrade but if you have the Red, I read that people usually just stick with it. You probably need good gear and good ears to spot the difference since both are ESS DACs and the SQ are usually pretty forward leaning.
> 
> Prior to the Cobalt, I was thorn between the Mojo and the Cobalt. I chose the Cobalt in view of ultra portability despite the Mojo having SQ I could never forget. I still don’t regret my decision till today as the Cobalt does have a special place. No batteries, slips inside my bag easily, I can use it in so many ways and all that with good SQ.
> 
> However my next would be something more significant and different which will not replace the Cobalt but complement another aspect of my setup.


I completely agree that the Dragonfly has a convenience that puts it on another level. I've been using small DACs but it's difficult to beat the USB form factor and being able to pocket a DAC and easily plug and play with different devices. I use two different laptops at work and it's an absolute dream.

Thanks for sharing your views on the SQ of the Cobalt vs. the Black. I've had the Black for a while now so it might be time for an upgrade!


----------



## 118900 (Jul 31, 2020)

stephenlee2801 said:


> How do people view these as a direct upgrade to the original Dragonfly? I've been using the original as part of my setup at work (with Shure SE846) and have been quite happy with how simply but effective the setup is. Being able to use the Dragonfly with my Pixel would be a plus but would there be a substantial difference if I upgraded the original dragonfly to the cobalt for my work setup?


Overall I agree with the description that the cobalt sounds a tiny bit more laid back, but also "cleaner" with it (personal taste) and I think its worth the extra $100 if you can choose. Try listening to it before you buy but if you're in a situation where you have to buy another one I would go for the cobalt.


----------



## edlecom

psikey said:


> I'm only using the BTR5 over LDAC BT, not as  wired DAC.
> 
> LDAC BT is obviously not bit-perfect for the audiophile purists but if just going on what you hear and you like ESS DAC signature you should like the BTR5.
> 
> ...


You can get close to bit perfect wired by using USB Audio Player Pro in BT mode. It also clears the sound when wired. It does send a Bit Perfect signal through BT.


----------



## DaBlakPill

I'm not sure if my Dragonfly Cobalt is defective, but it seems to cause a ground loop with my iems. When I move my head around the humming noise sometimes gets quieter. This doesn't happen with my Dragonfly Red. Any of you guys experience this issue?


----------



## Edyeded86

Hey guys,

Has anyone had a chance to test this against a dedicated DAP? Im running music from AK SR25, any direct comparisons here??


----------



## Bercanees

Hi!

I have tried comparing the Cobalt with the AK SR25. The Cobalt is much better sounding though you get a full one stop solution with the SR25.

Comparing with AK SE200 with the latest multiple DAC -1x AK4499EQ + 2x ES9068AS

On the AK4499EQ output, the SE200 surpasses the SQ but quite a far margin. Didn’t try it with the ES output though but signature might be similar.


----------



## Edyeded86

Bercanees said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have tried comparing the Cobalt with the AK SR25. The Cobalt is much better sounding though you get a full one stop solution with the SR25.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the feedback.

Can you expand a little more on how the cobalt is better sounding please, and what do you mean sr25 is a one stop solutions?

Thanks again


----------



## Bercanees

Hi there

The SR25 can be referenced here:
https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...scg=CG232020&spos=2&tcg=&tpos=0&gcode=SC36040

The SR25 is a DAP - Digital Audio Player, hence why I mentioned it’s a “one stop solution” all in one. Unlike the Cobalt which is simply an external DAC, where your phone or Mac or computer is the player.

When I did the AB test, I realized that the Cobalt was much natural, with better staging and separation and detailed as compared to the SR25. It isn’t as “in your face”, forward as compared the SR25, which I felt was decent, but I preferred the overall SQ produced by the Cobalt as a whole.

The SR25 sounded a bit more musical as compared to the Cobalt, a bit tighter and condensed.

The SE200 with the AKM output was on a different league as it’s the same DAC used on the AK flagship SP2000. It was highly resolving, gave 3D imaging of the sound, exceptionally good layer separation and superb low noise. The SE200 is technically like a mini Sp2000 at 50% of the price.


----------



## Bercanees

Based on experience too, Cobalt performs better via Mac / Computer output rather than via phone. I have to push up the volume to 45% vs on my Mac using Roon, at 18/100.


----------



## Edyeded86

Bercanees said:


> Hi there
> 
> The SR25 can be referenced here:
> https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...scg=CG232020&spos=2&tcg=&tpos=0&gcode=SC36040
> ...


Amazing thanks you - this really helped.

Is the SE200 new?


----------



## Bercanees

Edyeded86 said:


> Amazing thanks you - this really helped.
> 
> Is the SE200 new?



Yes, the AK SE200 is the first ever DAP to feature 2 different types of DAC in a single player - AKM and ESS Sabre.

If you are into DAPs, it’s highly recommended you give it a try. It’s good. I tried it in comparing it with the Sp2000 flagship and found it to be very close. For the price to quality ratio, it’s a steal.

You can reference it here:
https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...scg=CG231960&spos=1&tcg=&tpos=0&gcode=SC36100


----------



## crazyhank

Hi everyone, I have the cobalt and use it with my 64audio U12t and Nio. Every time I raise the volume past 75% on my iPhone, the Cobalt crashes. Any ideas? I read that it could be an impedance issue with these IEMs, but I have seen many people use the 64audio line with Cobalt online.

Btw, tried different phones, adapters, and cobalts. Same behavior.

Appreciate any advice. Thank you!


----------



## a-LeXx

crazyhank said:


> Hi everyone, I have the cobalt and use it with my 64audio U12t and Nio. Every time I raise the volume past 75% on my iPhone, the Cobalt crashes. Any ideas? I read that it could be an impedance issue with these IEMs, but I have seen many people use the 64audio line with Cobalt online.
> 
> Btw, tried different phones, adapters, and cobalts. Same behavior.
> 
> Appreciate any advice. Thank you!


What do you mean by ‚crashes‘ ?


----------



## Celamojo

Might seem a bit silly but how does Cobalt compare with  TempoTec SONATA HD PRO?


----------



## Kal El

Does anyone know if the new Earmen Sparrow is better thab ifi Hip Dac? I can't find comparison about. Thanks


----------



## linknet

Edyeded86 said:


> Hey thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Can you expand a little more on how the cobalt is better sounding please, and what do you mean sr25 is a one stop solutions?
> 
> Thanks again





Edyeded86 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to test this against a dedicated DAP? Im running music from AK SR25, any direct comparisons here??


Hi, 
My two cents...
Did some AB testing with Agnes Obel "The Curse". With the 3.5mm on the SR25 the Cobalt sound "more open and airy". With the 2.5mm the SR25 takes a lot more texture and punch. For me to be able to use a 2.5mm balanced with the SR25 is the main advantage over the Cobalt. Apart from this the Cobalt is a wonderful small and convenient device. I'm still using it on the go as i don't want to have another device with me (even a small one like the SR25). Home i use the SR25 balanced to immerge in the music with no distraction from my phone.


----------



## crazyhank

a-LeXx said:


> What do you mean by ‚crashes‘ ?


Sorry, missed your reply. It crashes by blinking and music cuts out. I found out that if I plug in power into the CCK 3 adapter, then it works better. iPhone 11 Pro Max, CCK 3 adapter, and tried many cobalts and many phones and adapters. Same identical behavior on all variations. Many forum posts on headphones.com too. No resolution though and Audioquest won't own it....


----------



## a-LeXx

crazyhank said:


> Sorry, missed your reply. It crashes by blinking and music cuts out. I found out that if I plug in power into the CCK 3 adapter, then it works better. iPhone 11 Pro Max, CCK 3 adapter, and tried many cobalts and many phones and adapters. Same identical behavior on all variations. Many forum posts on headphones.com too. No resolution though and Audioquest won't own it....



Ok, in this case it would be a power consumption issue,  probably nothing can be done to mitigate it so you‘d have to use an external power supply with CCK3.
Did not experience the issue myself, but I neither use CCK3, since I have an iPhone 7 as a dedicated DAP nor do I ever go past 75% on volume...
Cobalt is anyway a joke in terms of power consumption. The manufacturer was advertising better and more power effecient components, while in real life it‘s consuming between 50% and 100% more power than a DFR and is getting very warm to a touch after running for half an hour.
I have both a DFR and a DFC, and my power consumption figures are based upon daily usage, not some theoretical specs...


----------



## viazniki

Guys for me I don’t own Cobalt only have first dragonfly 1.2 
Now I use HiliDAC Audirect Beam 2s and can say do magic and sound amazing with Onkyo HF player because he convert music to DSD 128 and this tiny think reproduce music flawlessly and not eat tons battery like my Dragonfly


----------



## viazniki




----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we feature the EarMen Eagle and we absolutely love it!

In this article you can find out how it compares to other popular choices such as the AudioQuest DragonFly, The iBasso DC01 and the NuPrime Hi-mDAC. But also why we're awarding it with our recommended buy award


----------



## 118900

viazniki said:


> Guys for me I don’t own Cobalt only have first dragonfly 1.2
> Now I use HiliDAC Audirect Beam 2s and can say do magic and sound amazing with Onkyo HF player because he convert music to DSD 128 and this tiny think reproduce music flawlessly and not eat tons battery like my Dragonfly


Genuine question but is this really the correct thread for this?


----------



## stinga

DaBlakPill said:


> I'm not sure if my Dragonfly Cobalt is defective, but it seems to cause a ground loop with my iems. When I move my head around the humming noise sometimes gets quieter. This doesn't happen with my Dragonfly Red. Any of you guys experience this issue?



Did you get to the bottom of this problem? I've just bought a DFC - I thought it would be better for mobile use than my Mojo. I'm experiencing a ground loop too whilst using a Samsung S8, DFC & IEMs. Interestingly on my wife's S8, DFC sounds perfect. I cannot work out what the difference is... except her's is more battered


----------



## CalvinandHobbes2020

I've listened to the Cobalt together with the Dragonfly Red and the Chord Mojo. I agree with others that the Cobalt is slightly smoother sounding than the Red, but adding a Jitterbug to the Red also helps in that area. Both the Cobalt and the Red have a similar sound signature. The real step up between these three is to go to a Mojo which sounds more spacious and provides more presence around instruments.


----------



## Oo Meitar oO

Oo Meitar oO said:


> Hi all,
> Wiggle problem here. So I've had the dfc for almost a year now, and since the very beginning they had the known wiggle of the USB/headphone jack. This was never an issue soundwise.
> 
> HOWEVER, today it started giving problems such that in some angles of wiggle I lose sound in the right earpiece. No force is needed, even just picking it up I can lose the sound.
> ...


Hi! this was a long time ago but thought I should share. I approached AQ and they were very responsive and helpful - told me to go to one of their distributors in the country and arranged for a replacement immediately. Never had a wiggle issue since!


----------



## gooeyrich




----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Nov 14, 2020)

CalvinandHobbes2020 said:


> I've listened to the Cobalt together with the Dragonfly Red and the Chord Mojo. I agree with others that the Cobalt is slightly smoother sounding than the Red, but adding a Jitterbug to the Red also helps in that area. Both the Cobalt and the Red have a similar sound signature. The real step up between these three is to go to a Mojo which sounds more spacious and provides more presence around instruments.


I did a 4 hour listening session between the DragonFly Red, Cobalt and Mojo/Poly just last night as my brother in law has a Cobalt and I wanted to hear it.   I hear it exactly the way you do.   The Cobalt and Red are very similar.  I prefer the Cobalt slightly.   The Mojo definitely has more presence, but some times it's too much.    It was better when I switched to IEMs rather than full sized headphones.


----------



## aerochrome2

All - I am newer to all of this and would appreciate some advice. My current setup is an old android phone (playing TIDAL MQA files through UAPP), into the dragonfly Black, into a basic monoprice headphone amp, and finally into either KEF EGGs (hooked up to a monopice slim 8" sub), or Beyerdynamic Amiron (if using headphones).

My question is, would I notice a big step up in quality going to the Red or Cobalt over the black (given the rest of my setup)? I only bought the Black a few months ago, but I am thinking of making that atravel DAC and keeping the Red or Cobalt near my home setup.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

aerochrome2 said:


> All - I am newer to all of this and would appreciate some advice. My current setup is an old android phone (playing TIDAL MQA files through UAPP), into the dragonfly Black, into a basic monoprice headphone amp, and finally into either KEF EGGs (hooked up to a monopice slim 8" sub), or Beyerdynamic Amiron (if using headphones).
> 
> My question is, would I notice a big step up in quality going to the Red or Cobalt over the black (given the rest of my setup)? I only bought the Black a few months ago, but I am thinking of making that atravel DAC and keeping the Red or Cobalt near my home setup.


I haven't heard the Black, but I have heard the Red and Cobalt.   My understanding is that there is a jump in quality from Black to Red and it's probably bigger than from Red to Cobalt, but if you are going for a travelling vs. desktop set up, I would recommend getting something completely different.    Maybe a Mojo or an iFi or Schiit stack.   That's because it will open up a lot more sound options for you rather than a linear improvement to what you have now.


----------



## aerochrome2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I haven't heard the Black, but I have heard the Red and Cobalt.   My understanding is that there is a jump in quality from Black to Red and it's probably bigger than from Red to Cobalt, but if you are going for a travelling vs. desktop set up, I would recommend getting something completely different.    Maybe a Mojo or an iFi or Schiit stack.   That's because it will open up a lot more sound options for you rather than a linear improvement to what you have now.



Interesting thanks. I definitely want something with MQA decoding, so it looks like that puts me in the iFi product range? Would the Zen DAC really be much of an upgrade over the black (just going on the price at $150?) - not sure I want to jump to something as expensive as the iFi Micro iDSD.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

aerochrome2 said:


> Interesting thanks. I definitely want something with MQA decoding, so it looks like that puts me in the iFi product range? Would the Zen DAC really be much of an upgrade over the black (just going on the price at $150?) - not sure I want to jump to something as expensive as the iFi Micro iDSD.


I don't own any iFi products.   I have Schiit, AudioQuest, Chord and Fiio.   I can say that MQA on my DragonFly Red sounds fantastic when paired with my HD650 headphones.


----------



## aerochrome2

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I don't own any iFi products.   I have Schiit, AudioQuest, Chord and Fiio.   I can say that MQA on my DragonFly Red sounds fantastic when paired with my HD650 headphones.



Awesome thanks. I will probably see if the Red or Cobalt drop on Black Friday.


----------



## Gorktastick

aerochrome2 said:


> Interesting thanks. I definitely want something with MQA decoding, so it looks like that puts me in the iFi product range? Would the Zen DAC really be much of an upgrade over the black (just going on the price at $150?) - not sure I want to jump to something as expensive as the iFi Micro iDSD.



Have you looked into the Earmen Sparrow?  I'm contemplating it, myself, as I've been reading great things about it.  It not only does MQA, but it also has both 3.5mm SE, and 2.5mm balanced, outputs, and it might even be smaller in size than the Audioquest offerings!  Here is the link:

https://earmen-shop.com/products/sparrow

There is a dedicated tread for it right here on Head-Fi:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earmen-sparrow.944278/

Cheers!
-TKB


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

aerochrome2 said:


> Awesome thanks. I will probably see if the Red or Cobalt drop on Black Friday.


Check the resale market here on Headfi.  I saw a Cobalt for sale at $180.   I went quickly.   I had to tie up my fingers to not buy it.   The Cobalt isn't much better than the Red and I wanted it.   Fortunately, logic prevailed over passion.


----------



## aerochrome2

Gorktastick said:


> Have you looked into the Earmen Sparrow?  I'm contemplating it, myself, as I've been reading great things about it.  It not only does MQA, but it also has both 3.5mm SE, and 2.5mm balanced, outputs, and it might even be smaller in size than the Audioquest offerings!  Here is the link:
> 
> https://earmen-shop.com/products/sparrow
> 
> ...


That looks really interesting. It seems like where it really shines is the balanced out (which people say is amazing), so time for a dumb question. 

I am having trouble figuring out whether my setup can accommodate a balanced out setup. 

Specifically, would that only be for my headphones? Do I basically just need a balanced 2.5mm to 3.5mm cord to plug into them? 

(I assume I would have to scrap my monoprice liquid spark and go straight into my headphones?)

Would it do anything special going into the 3.5MM input on my KEF Eggs, or is it only for headphones.

Thanks!!


----------



## 118900 (Dec 26, 2020)

aerochrome2 said:


> Awesome thanks. I will probably see if the Red or Cobalt drop on Black Friday.


The first thing you will notice is the higher loudness caused by the 2.1v output. Then there is the overall sound quality. The cobalt has a similar signature to the red but manages background “noise” better as it incorporates the jitterbug circuitry and has a slightly smoother top end due to the better conversion chip.


----------



## sebek

Can anyone make a comparison between DFC and E1DA 9038S regarding the battery consumption of an Android smartphone?


----------



## WyattEarp

aerochrome2 said:


> Interesting thanks. I definitely want something with MQA decoding, so it looks like that puts me in the iFi product range? Would the Zen DAC really be much of an upgrade over the black (just going on the price at $150?) - not sure I want to jump to something as expensive as the iFi Micro iDSD.


The Cobalt does MQA just fine. I'd suggest looking into the Cobalt as it is the latest in that series of DACs and according to others it's more like a combination of the black and red (I've never owned either) but tweaked to sound better.


----------



## sebek

I did not understand how powerful DFC is, can it drive well even headphones like Sennheiser HD 600 or Hifiman Sundara?


----------



## greenmac

I will have a Dragonfly Cobalt for sale shortly, based in UK 

Like new and sounds great


----------



## EvEst

I have Grado HF3 and 325e headphones.  Will replacing my DFR with a DFC or Sparrow be a noticeable upgrade or will it not make much difference with this equipment?


----------



## Kal El

I suggest to read about Lotoo Paw S1. I have it and I like it so much that I'm selling all my DAPs.


----------



## 118900 (Dec 23, 2020)

EvEst said:


> I have Grado HF3 and 325e headphones.  Will replacing my DFR with a DFC or Sparrow be a noticeable upgrade or will it not make much difference with this equipment?


I had the DFR and upgraded to DFC but only because I got a good deal on my DFR.

It’s not a night and day difference to be honest. Worth it if buying from scratch or if you get a very good price for your DFR.


----------



## EvEst

I got the Red for a very good price, but now I'm having second thoughts.


----------



## 118900

EvEst said:


> I got the Red for a very good price, but now I'm having second thoughts.


Why second thoughts? What are you looking for?


----------



## EvEst

juansan said:


> Why second thoughts? What are you looking for?


I was looking for a Dragonfly and found a deal on the Red that was too good to pass up, but now I'm wondering if I sholud have sprung for a Cobalt.  Really enjoying the Red, just wondering how much better the Cobalt really is and if the difference will be that apparent with my Grado Headphones.


----------



## CalvinandHobbes2020

EvEst said:


> I was looking for a Dragonfly and found a deal on the Red that was too good to pass up, but now I'm wondering if I sholud have sprung for a Cobalt.  Really enjoying the Red, just wondering how much better the Cobalt really is and if the difference will be that apparent with my Grado Headphones.


 The Cobalt and the Red have a strong family resemblance in their sound. The Cobalt is a bit smoother. The Red is a bit punchier in sound. I added an Audioquest Jitterbug to my Red and think that could be the best of both for mobile listening.  The real step-up would be to go to a Chord Mojo which is more 3-dimensional in sound and has more presence.


----------



## 118900

EvEst said:


> I was looking for a Dragonfly and found a deal on the Red that was too good to pass up, but now I'm wondering if I sholud have sprung for a Cobalt.  Really enjoying the Red, just wondering how much better the Cobalt really is and if the difference will be that apparent with my Grado Headphones.


I was going to reply but @CalvinandHobbes2020 said exactly what I was going to say for me. So basically, what he said.


----------



## EvEst

I guess I'll stick with the DFR for now.  I wish there was a more streamlined connection to iPhones, I guess that goes for all of the Dragonflies.  The Apple camera adapter that AudioGuest recommends is a bit bulky.


----------



## 118900

EvEst said:


> I guess I'll stick with the DFR for now.  I wish there was a more streamlined connection to iPhones, I guess that goes for all of the Dragonflies.  The Apple camera adapter that AudioGuest recommends is a bit bulky.


I have found no difference between CCK2 and cck3. The problem was originally with an iOS revision that messed up the digital output. I use the CCK2 with my DFC and as I had to get the cck3 as well, I use that with my home set up.


----------



## EvEst

juansan said:


> I have found no difference between CCK2 and cck3. The problem was originally with an iOS revision that messed up the digital output. I use the CCK2 with my DFC and as I had to get the cck3 as well, I use that with my home set up.


Thanks for that information.  I'll look into getting a CCK2.  It is nice to have the ability to charge the phone while listening, but when it's hanging out of your pocket the streamlined form factor would be much better.


----------



## 118900

EvEst said:


> Thanks for that information.  I'll look into getting a CCK2.  It is nice to have the ability to charge the phone while listening, but when it's hanging out of your pocket the streamlined form factor would be much better.


I know exactly what you mean. The 3 isn’t that much bigger, just enough to be a pain in the rear..... audioquest added the comment about the 3 sounding better for some unknown reason and at the time I do remember hearing clicks and dropouts and there was general upset on the net but by the next iOS revision the problem had been solved. I haven’t heard any issues since then.
Make sure you get the one with the correct connection to you iPhone as one is lightning and the other is usb C.


----------



## Jet Black

Im a new member. Hi guys. I just want to ask how much is dragonfly cobalt better than my ibasso dc03. Im just wondering. And would I really have a great upgrade on sq if ever i upgrade to it?


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## 118900 (Jan 6, 2021)

Jet Black said:


> Im a new member. Hi guys. I just want to ask how much is dragonfly cobalt better than my ibasso dc03. Im just wondering. And would I really have a great upgrade on sq if ever i upgrade to it?


Hi. Honestly haven’t heard the ibasso dc03 but darko states (for what that may or may not be worth) that the dragonfly black betters the dc02 it in terms of sound quality, however he doesn’t compare to the dc03. Can you find a sample to try or purchase with a good returns policy?

which headphones are you using?


----------



## Jet Black (Jan 6, 2021)

juansan said:


> Hi. Honestly haven’t heard the ibasso dc03 but darko states (for what that may or may not be worth) that the dragonfly black betters the dc02 it in terms of sound quality, however he doesn’t compare to the dc03. Can you find a sample to try or purchase with a good returns policy?


Well this is my first ever dongle dac so I have no idea to compare it with, thus I'm asking the community, maybe someone here has tried both and can explain thoroughly the difference.

Im still new so most of my iems are Chinese brands. Until i find a good product i might spend more on higher quality headphones, for now i have blon bl-01 and kz zs10 pro and an old shure 215.


----------



## TK33

Jet Black said:


> Well this is my first ever dongle dac so I have no idea to compare it with, thus I'm asking the community, maybe someone here has tried both and can explain thoroughly the difference.
> 
> Im still new so most of my iems are Chinese brands. Until i find a good product i might spend more on higher quality headphones, for now i have blon bl-01 and kz zs10 pro and an old shure 215.


Personally, I would invest in good IEMs that you are happy with first vs. spending a ton of money on a DAC first.  I think you would find more of a benefit that way initially and you can always upgrade the DAC later.  Don't get me wrong, I love my Dragonfly Cobalt.  It is your money.and I dont know if there is a specific reason you are looking at the Cobalt, but I would recommend starting with the headphones first (unless you really need a dongle because your phone doesnt have a headphone jack or something).. 

Unfortunately never heard the iBasso so cant be of much help but just my two cents.


----------



## Jet Black

TK33 said:


> Personally, I would invest in good IEMs that you are happy with first vs. spending a ton of money on a DAC first.  I think you would find more of a benefit that way initially and you can always upgrade the DAC later.  Don't get me wrong, I love my Dragonfly Cobalt.  It is your money.and I dont know if there is a specific reason you are looking at the Cobalt, but I would recommend starting with the headphones first (unless you really need a dongle because your phone doesnt have a headphone jack or something)..
> 
> Unfortunately never heard the iBasso so cant be of much help but just my two cents.


Thank you for your concern. Yes I ofcourse invest in iems first that is why it's the first item I bought but my main device is just a phone and you know that any dac dongls is always better (of course except the lg quad dac phones) compared to a 3.5mm jack coming from a phone. I'm planning to buy a better iem, thus I'm thinking of a mobile setup which is handy, and cobalt always comes up for the best mobile dac in every search I see. E1da too. I don't want bulky setups so as I can bring it anywhere when I travel.


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## TK33 (Jan 7, 2021)

Jet Black said:


> Thank you for your concern. Yes I ofcourse invest in iems first that is why it's the first item I bought but my main device is just a phone and you know that any dac dongls is always better (of course except the lg quad dac phones) compared to a 3.5mm jack coming from a phone. I'm planning to buy a better iem, thus I'm thinking of a mobile setup which is handy, and cobalt always comes up for the best mobile dac in every search I see. E1da too. I don't want bulky setups so as I can bring it anywhere when I travel.


I know this isnt what you asked (and you may have already considered it) but, for travel, I would also consider something like the Qudelix 5K.  Works great and is very versatile.  Before I got the Qudelix 5K, my ES100 (now displaced by my 5K) was always with me when i was flying anywhere.

For what it's worth, I used to use my SE846 out of my Galaxy S9 (replaced with a V60) when I was commuting and thought it was fine.  Of course my Cobalt sounded better but I valued the simplicity of not using a dongle on a crowded subway and commuter train. The Cobalt is a great device though and really pairs well with the SS846.


----------



## 3Putter

I use my Dragonfly Black v1.5 with my iPhone 11 and it sounds really good with my Grado SR125e or Periodic Audio C's. Run it through my JDS Labs Atom and it sound good AND loud For now I'm happy. Might try out the Earmen Sparrow or Eagle next...or maybe the Donald DAC.


----------



## Jet Black

3Putter said:


> I use my Dragonfly Black v1.5 with my iPhone 11 and it sounds really good with my Grado SR125e or Periodic Audio C's. Run it through my JDS Labs Atom and it sound good AND loud For now I'm happy. Might try out the Earmen Sparrow or Eagle next...or maybe the Donald DAC.


Donald tramp is better, i mean the earman trAMP


----------



## 3Putter

Jet Black said:


> Donald tramp is better, i mean the earman trAMP


Tr AMP is better than using a Donald DAC and my Atom Amp?


----------



## Ilomaenkimi

With iPhone:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm

Costs 10euros in Europe...
Not bulky camera adapters between..

I highly recommend to test.

I have had RED and i'm laughing.


----------



## BenKatz

Here's my 2 cents: Got the BTR5 a while back to use as DAC/AMP with my laptop at work and as BT receiver for my phone (Sony Xperia 1 mark 2, LDAC bt) - my IEMs of choice are the Campfire Audio Polaris v2 (17 ohm, quite sensitive, don't require heaps of power).

The first thing i noticed is that my phone sounds clearly better than the BTR5 (by using it's 3.5 mm jack). I didn't have nearly as much power (max volume is equivalent to around 40-41 out of 60 volume on the BTR5 on low gain), but I didn't need that much power, since the max I could handle is about 70-80% on the phone (35ish on BTR5). But the sound was noticeably warmer, wider, with better heft to the lows and mids, and especially less grain/harshness in the vocals and high end. At that point the BTR5 was relegated to laptop use only, since i don't really mind the cable (got a Campfire Audio Copper Litz cable with in-line remote and volume control which work with my phone for calls) for mobile use. 

The problem is each time I would listen to music while working, I was longing for the Xperia's sound quality, but unfortunately switching jacks back and forth between my laptop and phone was a hassle, and I couldn't use my phone as a laptop DAC, obviously. So i started searching for a good DAC that would sound better than my phone, for laptop use. 

I ended up buying the DF Cobalt (I've had the DF Red a while back, on different headphones). I first tested the DF Cobalt vs my phone, and it sounded slightly clearer and better, especially in the mids. When I compared it to the BTR5, it was a DIFFERENT league, comparisons (at least for my situation with my IEMs) was pointless, there was a world of difference across all the conceivable sound metrics. So I ended up relegating the BTR5 to my car as through LDAC bt it sounded way better than with the louse SBC bt connection to the car's receiver. 

I'm not planning to use the DF Cobalt as a mobile solution with my phone, even though it works pretty seamlessly with the included Audioquest Dragontail USB-C dongle.

The only issue I have with the DF Cobalt is that there's is abs no way to set a volume limit, not in Windows sound device manager nor within the Tidal app. As it stands, it's not such a big issue, but I can't go past 25-30/100 volume on it since it's gonna kill my IEM on account of the power output of the DF Cobalt. This is, of course, a very good thing overall, for people using harder to drive headphones.


----------



## sebek

Based on your experience, which headphones you have tried best match the DFC?

I'm looking for something suitable under € 300, also looking at second-hand.

I was looking at the usual Senn HD 600 and 650 or Hifiman Sundara, but would the DFC drive them well?


----------



## 118900

sebek said:


> Based on your experience, which headphones you have tried best match the DFC?
> 
> I'm looking for something suitable under € 300, also looking at second-hand.
> 
> I was looking at the usual Senn HD 600 and 650 or Hifiman Sundara, but would the DFC drive them well?


I haven’t listened to it with any of those I’m sorry to say. Several sites that test them specify which headphones they use for testing and cite whether they work well together.

I’m pretty sure that in a multi DAC test I read very recently (I googled a chord mojo review) the reviewer mentioned the sundaras (it stuck in my mind because the reviewer referred to them as his “sunnys”) but I can’t honestly recall whether he confirmed that they were a good match or not, sorry.


----------



## sebek

However, it is incredible how many people have stupefied Audiosciencereview, seriously convinced that a € 9 Apple dongle and a Meizu or Tempotec sound better than a Cobalt.


----------



## Jet Black

sebek said:


> However, it is incredible how many people have stupefied Audiosciencereview, seriously convinced that a € 9 Apple dongle and a Meizu or Tempotec sound better than a Cobalt.


An ibasso dc03 tho, or a e1da would be a good competition to the cobalt


----------



## bodopopa

Just got a used cobalt for about 190$. I had a ifi idsd micro black i sold. I m using Beyerdynamic dt 880 250ohm.
The form factor is very important and i really didn t like stacking up the microblack. I don t go outside with headphones but i don t sit at the desk either so the lightness of cobalt is really nice.
In comparison- cobalt is silent. Power wise- will not drive the dt880 properly loudly. I listen st about 75%.
I quite like the sound although i m starting to dislike the Beyers treble. I really don  t thins ESS chips are ok eith bright headphones.
The cobalt wobbles but it s ok. Quite happy eith the purchase listening to mqa via tidal.
I will upgrade to audeze lcd 1 or the new 660s.


----------



## iFi audio

bodopopa said:


> The form factor is very important and i really didn t like stacking up the microblack.



micro iDSD BL isn't the smallest one we have, that's true. For something more affordable, compact and lighter I'd take a look at our hip-dac


----------



## bodopopa

I definetly looked into that one but i chose cobalt mainly because i didn t want another battery to charge.


----------



## iFi audio

bodopopa said:


> I definetly looked into that one but i chose cobalt mainly because i didn t want another battery to charge.



That's understandable, enjoy your Cobalt


----------



## bodopopa

Thanks. Will ifi launch a streamer in the near future? Would love a akm powered device for my speakers. I currently use zen blue with ipower and it s pretty good but i miss the mqa decoding because of bluetooth.


----------



## iFi audio

bodopopa said:


> Thanks. Will ifi launch a streamer in the near future? Would love a akm powered device for my speakers. I currently use zen blue with ipower and it s pretty good but i miss the mqa decoding because of bluetooth.



Although I can't say anything specific on the subject, we're aware how popular streamers are these days


----------



## bodopopa

iFi audio said:


> Although I can't say anything specific on the subject, we're aware how popular streamers are these days


A dual dac wifi streamer with phone/ tablet control of tidal and other streaming services would really make me very happy.


----------



## iFi audio

bodopopa said:


> A dual dac wifi streamer with phone/ tablet control of tidal and other streaming services would really make me very happy.



Probably many people would like to see something like that and, as above, as a manufacturer we're aware of this


----------



## 3Putter

I have a NAD Integrated Amp for my living room that came with the BluOs system so I can stream MQA and Hifi from Tidal controlled from my computer or phone. When it works it is awesome. You need a really stable wifi signal and there are still bugs on occasion. I'm working on a direct wiring in the short term and hope it works. Getting the industry to create a dual dac wifi streamer with phone/tablet control is what is coming.


----------



## TK33

3Putter said:


> I have a NAD Integrated Amp for my living room that came with the BluOs system so I can stream MQA and Hifi from Tidal controlled from my computer or phone. When it works it is awesome. You need a really stable wifi signal and there are still bugs on occasion. I'm working on a direct wiring in the short term and hope it works. Getting the industry to create a dual dac wifi streamer with phone/tablet control is what is coming.


I have the Node 2i that is in my living room wired to an ethernet switch which is connected to a Velop node (mesh wifi system).  Works great and I have no issues listening to Amazon HD or Qobuz (no Tidal).  Have a Fire TV and Samsung TV connected the same way and have no trouble streaming UHD content either. Not completely wired but not having each device try to connect wirelessly on its own seems to help.


----------



## bodopopa

has anyone used DF cobalt with Sennheiser hd 660s? In theory there is enough juice but i m affraid of the harsh treble. I never listened to hd 660s but read that it s brightet then hd 650 and i m wondering if the pairing with ESS dac will sound too disturbing to my ears. 
i alsoread that cobalt tames bright headphones but it didn t happen with Beyers which are treble beasts.


----------



## sebek

bodopopa said:


> has anyone used DF cobalt with Sennheiser hd 660s? In theory there is enough juice but i m affraid of the harsh treble. I never listened to hd 660s but read that it s brightet then hd 650 and i m wondering if the pairing with ESS dac will sound too disturbing to my ears.
> i alsoread that cobalt tames bright headphones but it didn t happen with Beyers which are treble beasts.


I am also interested in this pairing. I bought the Cobalt and I am looking for a good headphone and the 660 S is one I am looking at.

A person who has had both told me that they have a perfect synergy, but I would like to hear other opinions.


----------



## bodopopa

sebek said:


> I am also interested in this pairing. I bought the Cobalt and I am looking for a good headphone and the 660 S is one I am looking at.
> 
> A person who has had both told me that they have a perfect synergy, but I would like to hear other opinions.


I m right now considering either the hd 660s or the lcd1, which would be on the safe side, quite neutral.


----------



## 118900 (Jan 31, 2021)

bodopopa said:


> I m right now considering either the hd 660s or the lcd1, which would be on the safe side, quite neutral.


I’m haven’t heard the LCD1 but having heard the lcd2 and having owned the lcd-4z I would say to beware because if the lcd-1 follows the traditional Audeze house sound it will be dark, not neutral. Listen to them first if you can


----------



## bodopopa

juansan said:


> I’m haven’t heard the LCD1 but having heard the lcd2 and having owned the lcd-4z I would say to beware because of the lcd-1 follows the traditional Audeze house sound it will be dark, not neutral. Listen to them first if you can


For me, dark is ok, i cannot tolerate bright treble it seems.


----------



## 118900 (Jan 28, 2021)

bodopopa said:


> For me, dark is ok, i cannot tolerate bright treble it seems.


I cannot stand overly bright either, but there is a distinct difference between neutral (not bright) and the dark sound of the Audeze's. I hate bright headphones and used the LCD-4z but always felt something missing from the top end so that in the end I had to swap them out regardless of the fact that apart from that "dark" signature (which is purely a question or personal taste) they were exemplary HPs.

I cannot say what the LCD 1s sound like as I have honestly never heard them, however I would serious suggest you give them a listen before you buy as there is a definite difference between what I would personally define as neutral or not-bright and the typical Audeze house sound.


----------



## sebek

juansan said:


> I cannot stand overly bright either, but there is a distinct difference between neutral (not bright) and the dark sound of the Audeze's. I hate bright headphones and used the LCD-4z but always felt something missing from the top end so that in the end I had to swap them out regardless of the fact that apart from that "dark" signature (which is purely a question or personal taste) they were exemplary HPs.
> 
> I cannot say what the LCD 1s sound like as I have honestly never heard them, however I would serious suggest you give them a listen before you buy as there is a definite difference between what I would personally define as neutral or not-bright and the typical Audeze house sound.


Which headphones do you use or prefer to use on Cobalt?


----------



## 118900 (Jan 28, 2021)

sebek said:


> Which headphones do you use or prefer to use on Cobalt?


The best headphones I used with the cobalt are the KSE1200 but that is down to the headphones not the cobalt itself as they aren’t really comparable to the SE846.

I am now using the DFC exclusively with the SE846s (as my super portable system) and I’m very happy with the setup as I am driving the kse1200 from a mojo as my “transportable system”.


----------



## sebek

I use Cobalt from an Android smartphone with UAPP.

Is it normal that with fairly sensitive IEMs - 111 dB - it has to go beyond 50-60% to get a good listening volume?

Or do I need to set some settings to get full power?


----------



## 118900

sebek said:


> I use Cobalt from an Android smartphone with UAPP.
> 
> Is it normal that with fairly sensitive IEMs - 111 dB - it has to go beyond 50-60% to get a good listening volume?
> 
> Or do I need to set some settings to get full power?


Can’t say I’m afraid, I’m using it on an iPhone and with the SE846s I’m on about 30 % approximately


----------



## meomap

sebek said:


> I use Cobalt from an Android smartphone with UAPP.
> 
> Is it normal that with fairly sensitive IEMs - 111 dB - it has to go beyond 50-60% to get a good listening volume?
> 
> Or do I need to set some settings to get full power?


DFC eats your phone battery real fast though.
Use Colbalt for laptop now.
Use Mojo with Note9. Batteries are separated and much better for both units.


----------



## 118900

meomap said:


> DFC eats your phone battery real fast though.
> Use Colbalt for laptop now.
> Use Mojo with Note9. Batteries are separated and much better for both units.


The cobalt does chew through the battery but if you consider the size and cost the DFC is excellent (and this is from someone who openly acknowledges the superiority of the mojo SQ wise).
The DFC has other characteristics which the mojo cannot match. Different horses for different courses.


----------



## sebek

I used BTR5 in USB DAC mode with charge ON and it consumed more battery than the DFC. The battery consumption with the Cobalt does not seem so excessive to me.

The sound quality is truly head and shoulders above. It sounds more natural and effortless, more detail and a soundstage and three-dimensionality that the BTR5 absolutely did not have.

I had also thought about the Mojo, but I didn't want to keep up with its battery which often starts to give problems earlier than expected and is expensive to replace.

However, I would be curious to read other comparisons, as well as with Mojo also with something like IFI Nano iDSD BL, Topping NX4 DSD, E1DA 9038D ...


----------



## 118900 (Jan 31, 2021)

sebek said:


> I used BTR5 in USB DAC mode with charge ON and it consumed more battery than the DFC. The battery consumption with the Cobalt does not seem so excessive to me.
> 
> The sound quality is truly head and shoulders above. It sounds more natural and effortless, more detail and a soundstage and three-dimensionality that the BTR5 absolutely did not have.
> 
> ...


The mojo is a clearly superior DAC imho, it is ever so slightly warmer and resolves transients far better which is typical of all chord dacs. It is more musical and the music simply sounds more realistic.
But it is much larger than the DFC and costs a lot more and frankly the DFC is perfectly good enough as a DAC in its own right that, added to its form factor, makes it an excellent product.


----------



## sebek

I am very happy with the Cobalt SQ.

I'm a little worried about the driving power, I bought a 660 S and now I'm not sure if I can drive it at its best.

If it's not powerful enough for the 660 S I'll have to resell it and probably go to an IFI device, although I've read about it that they sound maybe a little too warm, I'll have to evaluate.

I will still keep the classic Mojo in mind anyway.


----------



## bodopopa

sebek said:


> I am very happy with the Cobalt SQ.
> 
> I'm a little worried about the driving power, I bought a 660 S and now I'm not sure if I can drive it at its best.
> 
> Let us know. I still don t know between hd 660s and lcd1.


----------



## Julius Decimus

sebek said:


> I'm a little worried about the driving power, I bought a 660 S and now I'm not sure if I can drive it at its best.


Have you checked Xduoo portable amps ?

If you have good Dac (which i assume it is so, seeing most people happy with Cobalt), look for amplifier device only. Last years become really hard to find portable ones, as everyone seems to be making dac/amp in one and their power output suck. Plus there is the "balanced" on top of that and changing cables. So, there was Fiio E12, A5, Jds Labs in the past, but now i see Xduoo have probably one of the little companies left that has somewhat "normal" amplifier.


----------



## bodopopa

First impressions after some listening cobalt+ hd 660s.
In terms of volume, things are quite fine, they don t sound thin.
Keep in mind i have owned dt 770, dt 880 250 ohm, oppo pm3. I feel hd660s  are better for the kind of sound i m looking for. No more harsh beyer sound and much more dynamic than oppo pm3. But still that voice emphasis which i definetly enjoy. Very easy to listen for hours.
And cobalt does a nice job, more then enough. I m waiting for a 1.2 meter cable from amazon.


----------



## sebek

If anyone is interested I have a practically new DFC for sale, with about ten hours of use.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dragonfly-cobalt-like-new-one-month.953946/#post-16149375

I love the sound quality and the shape and size, but I bought a Chord Mojo because it has more power for the headphones I want to buy in the future.

I can't keep them both.


----------



## franckyfresh

I’ve tested the cobalt but I liked the red better, less boring imo


----------



## Jet Black

Any thorough review comparison vs ibasso dc03?


----------



## sebek

sebek said:


> If anyone is interested I have a practically new DFC for sale, with about ten hours of use.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dragonfly-cobalt-like-new-one-month.953946/#post-16149375
> 
> ...


I decided to keep it.

I've been doing A / B between DFC and Chord Mojo since last night, with an AKG K712 Pro, UAPP and FLAC 16/44.

To my surprise I'm liking the Cobalt more for now.

It has a leaner, more spacious, more neutral sound, which for my taste works better with the K712. And it seems to me that the Cobalt drives the headset without any difficulty.

The Mojo has a warmer, perhaps slightly more detailed sound, which I believe adds too much weight and warmth to the K712 which already has a lot of bass in it.

For now, I'll keep them both and continue to compare them.


----------



## 118900

sebek said:


> I decided to keep it.
> 
> I've been doing A / B between DFC and Chord Mojo since last night, with an AKG K712 Pro, UAPP and FLAC 16/44.
> 
> ...


System matching is important. Give them both time as the sound may even change after a while and then make a final decision. Who knows, you may prefer one, change the HPs and then end up preferring the other.


----------



## Julius Decimus (Feb 14, 2021)

sebek said:


> I decided to keep it.
> 
> I've been doing A / B between DFC and Chord Mojo since last night, with an AKG K712 Pro, UAPP and FLAC 16/44.
> 
> ...


This is interesting. But in general, you like the headphones ?

For Mojo is good to get the exact fine volume level. Not to be too low volume and not too high. Not sure for bit perfect playback. I think around green colour or little bit below that. Which artist are you listening mostly ? Or among your favorite ones.

Yes, Mojo is not the most spacious sounding Dac, but according to Rob Watts (the Mojo designer) is accurate as it is (he did a lot of testing and listening and came to this conclusion).


----------



## sebek

Julius Decimus said:


> This is interesting. But in general, you like the headphones ?
> 
> For Mojo is good to get the exact fine volume level. Not to be too low volume and not too high. Not sure for bit perfect playback. I think around green colour or little bit below that. Which artist are you listening mostly ? Or among your favorite ones.
> 
> Yes, Mojo is not the most spacious sounding Dac, but according to Rob Watts (the Mojo designer) is accurate as it is (he did a lot of testing and listening and came to this conclusion).


I made a comparison yesterday on extreme music - Emperor, Nile, Hate Eternal - and here the Mojo wins, never loses control, more detail and clarity, while DFC gets lost in the most chaotic situations, it becomes quite indistinguishable. Maybe even because of the lower driving power, I don't know.

The combo Mojo and K712 sounds too hot, too bassy to me.

In my opinion it is also the fault of the FiiO CL06 that I am using as OTG.

Already when I had the BTR5 and used it in USB DAC mode, the FiiO LT-TC1 cable added too much weight and warmth. Perhaps it is a feature of their pure copper connecting cables.

Tomorrow I'll try an Amazon basics to see if anything changes, then if I don't like it I'll try a Shanling L2 or a Penon OTG cable with silver.


----------



## 118900 (Feb 14, 2021)

sebek said:


> I made a comparison yesterday on extreme music - Emperor, Nile, Hate Eternal - and here the Mojo wins, never loses control, more detail and clarity, while DFC gets lost in the most chaotic situations, it becomes quite indistinguishable. Maybe even because of the lower driving power, I don't know.
> 
> The combo Mojo and K712 sounds too hot, too bassy to me.
> 
> ...


Unless the cable is transmitting RF noise I’m really not sure the material used to make the cable would influence the “sound” of the digital signal being transmitted.


----------



## sebek

juansan said:


> Unless the cable is transmitting RF noise I’m really not sure the material used to make the cable would influence the “sound” of the digital signal being transmitted.


I have read many pages of the Mojo thread and many said they hear differences in switching from one OTG cable to another.

In my modest experience with cables, there is always a small or big difference, especially when comparing copper and silver.


----------



## 118900 (Feb 14, 2021)

sebek said:


> I have read many pages of the Mojo thread and many said they hear differences in switching from one OTG cable to another.
> 
> In my modest experience with cables, there is always a small or big difference, especially when comparing copper and silver.


You hear differences in cable material with digital signals or do you mean analogue?


----------



## andrewski

juansan said:


> You hear differences in cable material with digital signals or do you mean analogue?


When I was using DFR, there was a better improvement in sound when I switched from a generic OTG to dragontail usb C than adding a Jitterbug. True story.


----------



## sebek

juansan said:


> You hear differences in cable material with digital signals or do you mean analogue?


With BTR5 they were quite clear to my ears, I had tried a Nimaso cable, one I don't remember which brand and a FiiO LT-TC1, for use in USB DAC mode from the smartphone.

With the FiiO cable the sound had more body, with fuller and more prominent bass ... too much for my taste.


----------



## 118900 (Feb 14, 2021)

andrewski said:


> When I was using DFR, there was a better improvement in sound when I switched from a generic OTG to dragontail usb C than adding a Jitterbug. True story.


I believe you, I myself have heard differences between usb cables but am more inclined to believe that that is due to the proper usb standard cable construction and correct impedance. As USB certification is not checked but simply assured by the manufacturer there are lots of cables that don’t respect the standard regardless of their “guarantee”. 

If two cables are identical in all respects I simply do not believe that changing from one material to another can possibly change the sequence of 1s and 0s, especially considering the asynchronous capacity to reduce jitter and the data correction inherent in the data transfer, unless they are reducing RF interference, which is not the case between copper and silver to my knowledge. 

But that’s just my opinion. There are people who swear they can hear the difference with a $2500 USB cable.


----------



## Julius Decimus

sebek said:


> Tomorrow I'll try an Amazon basics to see if anything changes, then if I don't like it I'll try a Shanling L2 or a Penon OTG cable with silver.


Ok. Well.....i know you may not like the idea but....there is EQ as well. -2 to 3db on the bass might fix it ?

Can't say anything about the cables myself. I hope it does the difference that you need then.

How is the treble ? Good ?


----------



## sebek

Julius Decimus said:


> Ok. Well.....i know you may not like the idea but....there is EQ as well. -2 to 3db on the bass might fix it ?
> 
> Can't say anything about the cables myself. I hope it does the difference that you need then.
> 
> How is the treble ? Good ?


Trebles are very soft, harmless, I could listen to them for hours without fatigue ... but I was used to a little more grit and impact, with the IEMs and previous devices I used. Maybe I just need to get used to a new signature.

The problem with EQ with UAPP is that you can't use it without giving up the bit perfect ... on Neutron is it the same thing?


----------



## Julius Decimus (Feb 14, 2021)

sebek said:


> Trebles are very soft, harmless, I could listen to them for hours without fatigue ... but I was used to a little more grit and impact, with the IEMs and previous devices I used. Maybe I just need to get used to a new signature.
> 
> The problem with EQ with UAPP is that you can't use it without giving up the bit perfect ... on Neutron is it the same thing?


Yes, Neutron is same. If bit perfect option is activated, you cannot use EQ, yes. You can make changes, but it disables the bit perfect if you change something in sound processing settings.
Emperor i listened in past. The others you mentioned i have not heard. Emperor has old albums as well. I am Immortal fan. 'At Winter's heart' from 1999 is amazing.

Ok, well, as you decide. I hope the cable helps. If other questions, ask, i answer when see. And happy listening.


----------



## sebek

Last post on this issue ... maybe I had underestimated a bit of headphone burn in, at first it sounded really lifeless, closed and without energy, with a low end dominating everything else. And I was disappointed.

After playing it for 10-15 hours it really feels like a different animal, that excessive heat is gone, a sound finally open and a good balance across all frequencies, more life and excitement, when punch is needed it takes it out.

Last night I listened to Beethoven's historic fifth with Kleiber with Mojo and K712 and it was almost like hearing it for the very first time, fantastic.

And K712 sounds great even with the DFC, I don't really feel a difficulty of the Cobalt in driving it, it works perfectly.

Mojo and DFC are two excellent devices, it is also difficult for me to say which is better between the two, it is really a matter of nuances and maybe ... mood?

I think it's a shame to have to choose between the two and sell one. I am oriented to keep both and alternate them.


----------



## meomap

sebek said:


> Last post on this issue ... maybe I had underestimated a bit of headphone burn in, at first it sounded really lifeless, closed and without energy, with a low end dominating everything else. And I was disappointed.
> 
> After playing it for 10-15 hours it really feels like a different animal, that excessive heat is gone, a sound finally open and a good balance across all frequencies, more life and excitement, when punch is needed it takes it out.
> 
> ...


I have both , and I will keep them...


----------



## Julius Decimus

sebek said:


> Last post on this issue ... maybe I had underestimated a bit of headphone burn in, at first it sounded really lifeless, closed and without energy, with a low end dominating everything else. And I was disappointed.
> 
> After playing it for 10-15 hours it really feels like a different animal, that excessive heat is gone, a sound finally open and a good balance across all frequencies, more life and excitement, when punch is needed it takes it out.
> 
> Last night I listened to Beethoven's historic fifth with Kleiber with Mojo and K712 and it was almost like hearing it for the very first time, fantastic.


Ok, i am glad to hear this. I am after all the one that recommended you these headphones, and although you have read a lot of opinions before buying, still sucks if you don't like them much. So i am happy that is OK now.

For the burn in, you may find difference if you leave them playing with very high volume (not on your head, put them aside for 5 min. playing with very high volume. That is dark blue or very light pink/purple, like the line out level of Mojo. Not all the way up, just on 65-70 % of Mojo volume) for 4-5 mins and then turn it back to normal and listen so. That is not needed to be done every time, but if you leave them unused for 3 weeks+ if on holiday and it doesn't sound great after. It does a difference. My explanation is when you put more volume, the driver in the headphone does extend more than normal when moving to produce the sound, and this then leaves it somewhat more sensitive after. I don't think it works so with planars, but with regular dynamic driver headphones yes.

This Cobalt looks like good Dac if sounds good K712. Nice.


----------



## sebek

Julius Decimus said:


> For the burn in, you may find difference if you leave them playing with very high volume (not on your head, put them aside for 5 min. playing with very high volume. That is dark blue or very light pink/purple, like the line out level of Mojo. Not all the way up, just on 65-70 % of Mojo volume) for 4-5 mins and then turn it back to normal and listen so. That is not needed to be done every time, but if you leave them unused for 3 weeks+ if on holiday and it doesn't sound great after. It does a difference. My explanation is when you put more volume, the driver in the headphone does extend more than normal when moving to produce the sound, and this then leaves it somewhat more sensitive after. I don't think it works so with planars, but with regular dynamic driver headphones yes.


I have often noticed this thing on my speakers, a few minutes of pretty high volume, then I go back to normal listening volume and they sound better ...

The Cobalt is pretty amazing when you consider the shape and size ... it's treated like garbage by the sheep of audiosciencereviews and reddit, but it competes with the Chord Mojo and is truly in another league than the Tempotec Sonata and Meizu that I've tried and that they measure very well and should be the best dacs in the world.

Obviously it would be unfair to compare because those are 20-30 € dongles and the DFC is 300 €, but if one who has never tried them and read reddit's opinions on these devices - opinions totally influenced by those measurements and given by who has probably never compared them in person - could seriously believe that a Meizu has a better SQ than a DFC.


----------



## spiritcrusher

Any recommendations on USB C OTG cables? I have a samsung s8 and the connection from cable to phone is terrible, bad enough that even just movement while it's in my pocket can disturb the connection and stop playback. Doesn't happen with any other cables (charging cables etc.). Really hampering my enjoyment of this since I got as a christmas present.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

sebek said:


> Usei o BTR5 no modo USB DAC com carga LIGADA e consumiu mais bateria do que o DFC. O consumo de bateria com o Cobalt não me parece tão excessivo.
> 
> A qualidade do som é verdadeiramente superior. Parece mais natural e sem esforço, mais detalhes e um palco sonoro e tridimensionalidade que o BTR5 absolutamente não tinha.
> 
> ...


Você comparou o DFC com a entrada de 2,5 mm do Btr5, ou com a entrada de 3,5 mm ... Há uma grande diferença entre os dois


----------



## 118900

sebek said:


> I have often noticed this thing on my speakers, a few minutes of pretty high volume, then I go back to normal listening volume and they sound better ...
> 
> The Cobalt is pretty amazing when you consider the shape and size ... it's treated like garbage by the sheep of audiosciencereviews and reddit, but it competes with the Chord Mojo and is truly in another league than the Tempotec Sonata and Meizu that I've tried and that they measure very well and should be the best dacs in the world.
> 
> Obviously it would be unfair to compare because those are 20-30 € dongles and the DFC is 300 €, but if one who has never tried them and read reddit's opinions on these devices - opinions totally influenced by those measurements and given by who has probably never compared them in person - could seriously believe that a Meizu has a better SQ than a DFC.


I think the DFC is an excellent product (as are the other two DF DACs at their price/size points) and if you take all these points into consideration I think it’s unbeatable, however on SQ alone imho i cannot say it “competes” with the mojo. 

But that is not detrimental considering the other aspects, in particular the form factor.


----------



## sebek

NinjaGirayaZ said:


> Você comparou o DFC com a entrada de 2,5 mm do Btr5, ou com a entrada de 3,5 mm ... Há uma grande diferença entre os dois


Yes I used BTR5 from the 2.5 mm output and as a USB DAC, so at its full potential, and DFC for me is a remarkable update, much more detailed, easier and more enjoyable to listen to, more soundstage, superior on the whole line.


----------



## sebek

juansan said:


> I think the DFC is an excellent product (as are the other two DF DACs at their price/size points) and if you take all these points into consideration I think it’s unbeatable, however on SQ alone imho i cannot say it “competes” with the mojo.
> 
> But that is not detrimental considering the other aspects, in particular the form factor.


Now I have been comparing them for more than a week, the Mojo undoubtedly sounds more natural, realistic, detailed, three-dimensional, I think it is a more performing DAC, but when I use the DFC and I have the Mojo in charge I do not feel that I miss it, DFC is a great substitute.

Where I slightly prefer the DFC is in the signature, it sounds more neutral, while the Mojo has more extra weight, more warmth, and if you have headphones / IEMs with an already warm signature and you like more brilliance the pairing might not be ideal, play a little too heavy and bass oriented.


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

sebek said:


> Yes I used BTR5 from the 2.5 mm output and as a USB DAC, so at its full potential, and DFC for me is a remarkable update, much more detailed, easier and more enjoyable to listen to, more soundstage, superior on the whole line.


Thanks, I'm going to buy the cobalt, I saw a lot of people saying that it is not that much better than the btr5, or they would even sound the same on the balanced output, but I'll give DFC a chance ... From what you said, his signature is similar to btr5, neutral, with great dynamics and a brilliant touch, but better in all senses, that's what I'm looking for, because with dac with portable signature hot, I'm satisfied with my ifi hip dac


----------



## sebek

NinjaGirayaZ said:


> Thanks, I'm going to buy the cobalt, I saw a lot of people saying that it is not that much better than the btr5, or they would even sound the same on the balanced output, but I'll give DFC a chance ... From what you said, his signature is similar to btr5, neutral, with great dynamics and a brilliant touch, but better in all senses, that's what I'm looking for, because with dac with portable signature hot, I'm satisfied with my ifi hip dac


Yes, the signature is on the neutral side, perhaps slightly tending to warm, but less than the Mojo.

The BTR5 sounded harder and more tiring to my ears, without that soundstage sense and detail from the Cobalt, which you can simply listen to with pleasure for hours.

I also had read about the BTR5 more or less at the level of Cobalt, then I tried the Cobalt mainly because I liked the shape and the fact that it had no battery and the difference in SQ was greater than I thought.

If you are looking for a brighter signature, however, you could also read about Dragonfly Red, perhaps with the Jitterbug, or E1DA.

I have never tried either the Red or E1DA but many say they have a brighter signature than Cobalt, perfectly neutral and without that little touch of warmth and the slightly attenuated highs of Cobalt.


----------



## d-a07

I purchased the Cobalt and prefer the Red.


----------



## OceanRanger

d-a07 said:


> I purchased the Cobalt and prefer the Red.


Thanks for the post. Could you expand a bit about why you prefer the Red?


----------



## sebek

I recognize the technical superiority of the Mojo, but I often find it more enjoyable to listen to the DFC. It has such a lively and refreshing sound. Luckily nobody bought it for me when I wanted to sell it.


----------



## JM1979

sebek said:


> I recognize the technical superiority of the Mojo, but I often find it more enjoyable to listen to the DFC. It has such a lively and refreshing sound. Luckily nobody bought it for me when I wanted to sell it.


Yeah, the cobalt is really growing on me too. I upgraded from the red and dragonflies have always been my choice for mobile audio when I travel. I haven’t traveled at all in the past year so my time with the cobalt has been limited. But I’ve been using it more and really like it.

The mojo is awesome but the size and need to charge it can be a bit of a pain. The plug and play aspect of the DFC cannot be understated.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 8, 2021)

JM1979 said:


> Yeah, the cobalt is really growing on me too. I upgraded from the red and dragonflies have always been my choice for mobile audio when I travel. I haven’t traveled at all in the past year so my time with the cobalt has been limited. But I’ve been using it more and really like it.
> 
> The mojo is awesome but the size and need to charge it can be a bit of a pain. The plug and play aspect of the DFC cannot be understated.


Spot on imho. What the DFC loses in SQ to the mojo it makes up for in form factor.

And frankly, mojo apart, there’s not much (if anything) out there at or near the price that can beat it.


----------



## sebek

I would be curious to hear IFI Micro Black Label.

If it had the more neutral signature of the Cobalt with the best technical characteristics of the Mojo it would be great, if bulky.


----------



## 118900

sebek said:


> I would be curious to hear IFI Micro Black Label.
> 
> If it had the more neutral signature of the Cobalt with the best technical characteristics of the Mojo it would be great, if bulky.


If your going for bulky then stick with the mojo. It’s the only DAC to have the technical characteristics of the mojo 🤣


----------



## JM1979

sebek said:


> I would be curious to hear IFI Micro Black Label.
> 
> If it had the more neutral signature of the Cobalt with the best technical characteristics of the Mojo it would be great, if bulky.



IMO, the micro black label isn’t a great Dac. It’s main selling point is the power it puts out for a mobile unit.  It’s been a while since I’ve had one but from memory it doesn’t have the musicality or accuracy of a mojo or Dargonfly red/cobalt.


----------



## iFi audio

JM1979 said:


> the micro black label isn’t a great Dac.



It was designed to be a great DAC/amp package 

But yep, for example our no longer manufactured iDAC 2 would be one tier higher.


----------



## Jet Black

EvEst said:


> I guess I'll stick with the DFR for now.  I wish there was a more streamlined connection to iPhones, I guess that goes for all of the Dragonflies.  The Apple camera adapter that AudioGuest recommends is a bit bulky.


How is dragonfly red compared to the cheaper ibasso dc03? Is the quality level totally different?


----------



## eykxas

juansan said:


> And frankly, mojo apart, there’s not much (if anything) out there at or near the price that can beat it.


For me, the Mojo is very overvalued. It has great technical performance, but the sound is unenjoyable. Again, imho. In comparison, the DFC is a lot more fun. Despite the little lack of perfs.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 15, 2021)

eykxas said:


> For me, the Mojo is very overvalued. It has great technical performance, but the sound is unenjoyable. Again, imho. In comparison, the DFC is a lot more fun. Despite the little lack of perfs.


For me it certainly isn’t overvalued but de gustibus non disputandum est, which is what makes this hobby so interesting and varied. If that’s what you prefer I don’t think there is anything wrong with that at all.

nevertheless that doesn’t detract in anyway from the DFC which I own, use and love for what it is and does.


----------



## Jet Black

IMHO both MOJO and dfc are overpriced. Something like ibasso dc03 could easily save your wallet while enjoying music.


----------



## eykxas (Mar 15, 2021)

I agree for the DFC, it's clearly overpriced. For the Mojo, no. Its components are expensive. So it's understandable. The DC03 use the CS43131. Which has less sound quality than the ESS or Mojo's FPGA. (and his integrated amp is weak)


----------



## 118900

deleted


----------



## 118900

eykxas said:


> I agree for the DFC, it's clearly overpriced. For the Mojo, no. Its components are expensive. So it's understandable. The DC03 use the CS43131. Which has less sound quality than the ESS or Mojo's FPGA. (and his integrated amp is weak)


Don't forget that the DFC has a better chipset than the DFR, incorporates the jitterbug technology and includes the dragontail in the box, so not entirely sure I agree regarding the pricing policy which is set by the market anyway.


----------



## eykxas

juansan said:


> Don't forget that the DFC has a better chipset than the DFR, incorporates the jitterbug technology and includes the dragontail in the box, so not entirely sure I agree regarding the pricing policy which is set by the market anyway.


I really love the DFC (and Audioquest in general), but, with that, I think there is a huge "marketing" trickery. Replacing the 9016S by the 9038Q2M is not very expensive. the 9038 cost 10/15$ over the 9016.

And look at these photos. We cannot find the components of the jitterbug. So, where are they ?



Spoiler: DFC



https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads...17.jpeg.cb0aa94d9865293ef476ee150bba0e55.jpeg

https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads...16.jpeg.fe217b30f4679c51e171b87aa3f698cb.jpeg





Spoiler: jitterbug



https://www.stereophile.com/images/915aqjit.2.jpg


----------



## 118900

eykxas said:


> I really love the DFC (and Audioquest in general), but, with that, I think there is a huge "marketing" trickery. Replacing the 9016S by the 9038Q2M is not very expensive. the 9038 cost 10/15$ over the 9016.
> 
> And look at these photos. We cannot find the components of the jitterbug. So, where are they ?
> 
> ...


How do you know they haven’t incorporated the pertinent elements into the board and chipset? Do you think they have given fraudulent information about their product?

And the dragontail? And the development costs?

eitherway it’s a moot point (apart from your views on fraud) as the price is set by the market anyway. You can find these new for less than the MRRP if you look.


----------



## sebek

eykxas said:


> For me, the Mojo is very overvalued. It has great technical performance, but the sound is unenjoyable. Again, imho. In comparison, the DFC is a lot more fun. Despite the little lack of perfs.


I also find DFC funnier, and it always sounds good to me.

Mojo is a different listening experience, I would say more real, which strips the music completely and can sometimes sound less pleasant.

And it has a much warmer and more relaxed sound.

I could be fine with just DFC, but I'm glad I have both.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 15, 2021)

sebek said:


> I'm glad I have both.


Same here


----------



## Jet Black

eykxas said:


> I agree for the DFC, it's clearly overpriced. For the Mojo, no. Its components are expensive. So it's understandable. The DC03 use the CS43131. Which has less sound quality than the ESS or Mojo's FPGA. (and his integrated amp is weak)


I doubt if cirrus logic chips are lesser in sound quality compared to an ess equivalent.


----------



## 118900

Jet Black said:


> I doubt if cirrus logic chips are lesser in sound quality compared to an ess equivalent.


What source and headphones did you use when testing the dc03 and the cobalt?


----------



## Julius Decimus

Does the Cobalt support DSD guys ?

I am looking at this page : https://www.audioquest.com/dacs/dragonfly/dragonfly-cobalt

And....can"t find.




sebek said:


> And it has a much warmer and more relaxed sound.
> 
> I could be fine with just DFC, but I'm glad I have both.


Ohhh, you should try listen to this : https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/caladan_brood/3540359903

Only 1 full studio album from 2013. Smashing good to say the least.
This is amazing for testing. Close, distant sounds, big atmosphere.





PS: Apologies, saw literally the 2 or 3-rd comment on the first page and says no DSD. Ok.





juansan said:


> For me it certainly isn’t overvalued but de gustibus non disputandum est, which is what makes this hobby so interesting and varied. If that’s what you prefer I don’t think there is anything wrong with that at all.
> 
> nevertheless that doesn’t detract in anyway from the DFC which I own, use and love for what it is and does.


Well....i will tell you where from got the idea to try upsample to DSD. Apart from listening very loud volume. 
I have Fiio Q5, this definitely benefit from upsampling to DSD. Have it from before the Mojo, so after that i automatically decided to try the upsampling with Mojo as well, as soon as such option was available in Neutron MP. 
So....yes. Does not work so for all DACs and i got it why you advice against it with Mojo.


----------



## sebek (Mar 15, 2021)

Julius Decimus said:


> Ohhh, you should try listen to this : https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/caladan_brood/3540359903
> 
> Only 1 full studio album from 2013. Smashing good to say the least.
> This is amazing for testing. Close, distant sounds, big atmosphere.


I had already read well about them, I will listen to them ...

There was a fairly long time when I listened to very little Metal, it had become too loud and offensive to my no longer teen ears.

With the Ananda, Mojo and Cobalt I started to devour it again, they make it sound perfectly to my ears, clear, detailed, with the right intensity, but without effort.


----------



## 118900

Julius Decimus said:


> Does not work so for all DACs and i got it why you advice against it with Mojo.


That and the fact that the designer himself has strongly advised against it time after time, explaining why.


----------



## S0undJunk1e

Ah,  is this the safe spot where you can say you really like your Cobalt without being lambasted by strangers?

I gotta say,  I grabbed this on a whim because I had some store credit and was hoping it would be an upgrade over a basic dongle I was using with my Iphone.  I got that, and so much more I wasn't expecting.   I love the way they tuned this thing!   It's got bass and pace.   It really accentuates rhythms.    I can even use it connected to a PC and it drives my ZMF Aeolus pretty damn well actually.    I respect everyone's opinions, I know there's a bunch of people who don't like it,  but I'm having a great experience with this product.


----------



## sebek

Has anyone ever had a problem with the build quality of the DFC?

I am only using it at home, but do you think it would withstand some bumps and falls? Or would it break?


----------



## TK33 (Apr 16, 2021)

sebek said:


> Has anyone ever had a problem with the build quality of the DFC?
> 
> I am only using it at home, but do you think it would withstand some bumps and falls? Or would it break?


The jacks were loose/wobbly on some of the earlier production.  I have carried mine around when I was commuting and, aside from the white paint on the letters scratching off, no issues.  Feels really solid and I have not had an issue with the wobbly/loose connectors (knock on wood).  My DFC usually sits in my SE846 case and goes where the SE846 goes. I bought mine in late 2019

Is there a specific issue you are having? You could obviously use the case they provide when not in use.  I never did since it doesn't have cutouts and I found it annoying so I just put it in a pocket in a backpack along with mouse, SSD, etc. Its main selling point for me was how small and portable it is.


----------



## 118900 (Apr 16, 2021)

TK33 said:


> The jacks were loose/wobbly on some of the earlier production.  I have carried mine around when I was commuting and, aside from the white paint on the letters scratching off, no issues.  Feels really solid and I have not had an issue with the wobbly/loose connectors (knock on wood).  My DFC usually sits in my SE846 case and goes where the SE846 goes. I bought mine in late 2019
> 
> Is there a specific issue you are having? You could obviously use the case they provide when not in use.  I never did since it doesn't have cutouts and I found it annoying so I just put it in a pocket in a backpack along with mouse, SSD, etc. It's main selling point for me was how small and portable it is.


Same, down to “goes wherever my SE846s go”. Slight “wobble” lengthwise but only very slight and no issues.


----------



## soufiaj

TK33 said:


> The jacks were loose/wobbly on some of the earlier production.  I have carried mine around when I was commuting and, aside from the white paint on the letters scratching off, no issues.  Feels really solid and I have not had an issue with the wobbly/loose connectors (knock on wood).  My DFC usually sits in my SE846 case and goes where the SE846 goes. I bought mine in late 2019
> 
> Is there a specific issue you are having? You could obviously use the case they provide when not in use.  I never did since it doesn't have cutouts and I found it annoying so I just put it in a pocket in a backpack along with mouse, SSD, etc. Its main selling point for me was how small and portable it is.



Same goes for mine with my SE846. The real problem for me are the paint chipped off pretty ugly at the bottom due to my commuting almost everyday with it (since the day I got it around Dec 2019).

*attached image is my chipped DFC*

A little wiggle on the jack was quite worrisome but it stays like that since the beginning and haven’t got any worst.



sebek said:


> Has anyone ever had a problem with the build quality of the DFC?
> 
> I am only using it at home, but do you think it would withstand some bumps and falls? Or would it break?




Another 1 thing I hate is just how fragile the Apple CCK adapter is. So far I wasted $$ to buy them 2 times because it died on me since DFR days.

I can live with that because of the sound quality and how it improved my IEM limited capability.


----------



## sebek

TK33 said:


> The jacks were loose/wobbly on some of the earlier production.  I have carried mine around when I was commuting and, aside from the white paint on the letters scratching off, no issues.  Feels really solid and I have not had an issue with the wobbly/loose connectors (knock on wood).  My DFC usually sits in my SE846 case and goes where the SE846 goes. I bought mine in late 2019
> 
> Is there a specific issue you are having? You could obviously use the case they provide when not in use.  I never did since it doesn't have cutouts and I found it annoying so I just put it in a pocket in a backpack along with mouse, SSD, etc. Its main selling point for me was how small and portable it is.


The paint, in fact, tends to chip very easily, even if you always treat it very carefully. However, only a few small signs for now. 

The truth is I dropped it the other day and was wondering if it could handle these bumps and falls. 

It seems to work perfectly anyway.


----------



## genadyk

TK33 said:


> The jacks were loose/wobbly on some of the earlier production.  I have carried mine around when I was commuting and, aside from the white paint on the letters scratching off, no issues.  Feels really solid and I have not had an issue with the wobbly/loose connectors (knock on wood).  My DFC usually sits in my SE846 case and goes where the SE846 goes. I bought mine in late 2019
> 
> Is there a specific issue you are having? You could obviously use the case they provide when not in use.  I never did since it doesn't have cutouts and I found it annoying so I just put it in a pocket in a backpack along with mouse, SSD, etc. Its main selling point for me was how small and portable it is.


The jacks was loose on mine after one year of using it. And it happened in one month after the warranty has expired... The store owner was a good guy and he changed it for a new DFC.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Hi Everyone!

First time on this thread. Thought I would share my review of the iFi Hip DAC! 

I used to own a Cobalt, and although a lot of my friends love it - given my tastes - I like the Hip DAC a tad more: 

My review of the iFi Hip DAC, in case it helps anyone!


----------



## Sundavor

Hey guys, 

I have the Dragonfly Red, does anyone think that the Cobalt is worth the upgrade? I've read a few reviews online and it seems a bit mixed with some reviews saying that it's exactly the same and others saying that it's better. I'm just getting confused at this point from reading reviews. 

Thanks


----------



## a-LeXx

Sundavor said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have the Dragonfly Red, does anyone think that the Cobalt is worth the upgrade? I've read a few reviews online and it seems a bit mixed with some reviews saying that it's exactly the same and others saying that it's better. I'm just getting confused at this point from reading reviews.
> 
> Thanks


Only if you have very sensitive IEMs that hiss with DFR. I have both, bought DFC because it‘s almost dead silent with SE846 (I can still hear a little bit of hiss during absolte silence), while DFR‘s hiss is pretty audible. If you don‘t have those problems, my advice would be to stay with DFR.


----------



## Sundavor

a-LeXx said:


> Only if you have very sensitive IEMs that hiss with DFR. I have both, bought DFC because it‘s almost dead silent with SE846 (I can still hear a little bit of hiss during absolte silence), while DFR‘s hiss is pretty audible. If you don‘t have those problems, my advice would be to stay with DFR.


Thanks! I definitely have that problem with a few of my nicer IEMs and one of the reasons why I'm looking at an upgrade. 
On another note is there any other plug n play portable dac/amps that you recommend over the DFC?


----------



## a-LeXx

Sundavor said:


> Thanks! I definitely have that problem with a few of my nicer IEMs and one of the reasons why I'm looking at an upgrade.
> On another note is there any other plug n play portable dac/amps that you recommend over the DFC?


Well, Fiio btr3/5 are pretty silent as well, but I prefer the sound signature of DFC with my SE846. Apart from that - there are plenty of inexpensive chinese portable dacs nowadays, some of them might be silent as well, difficult to tell…


----------



## paulgc

Sundavor said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have the Dragonfly Red, does anyone think that the Cobalt is worth the upgrade? I've read a few reviews online and it seems a bit mixed with some reviews saying that it's exactly the same and others saying that it's better. I'm just getting confused at this point from reading reviews.
> 
> Thanks


Incremental upgrade. Also like the EarMan Sparrow. SE and Balanced output in a similar form factor. MQA as well.


----------



## Sundavor

a-LeXx said:


> Well, Fiio btr3/5 are pretty silent as well, but I prefer the sound signature of DFC with my SE846. Apart from that - there are plenty of inexpensive chinese portable dacs nowadays, some of them might be silent as well, difficult to tell…


Cheers! The Fiio does look interesting! I have been completely out of the loop with what's on the market right now as I was busy saving for a house. I'll have to compare and test to see which one suits me more.


----------



## sebek

I had FiiO BTR5, I used it as a USB DAC on balanced output. The Dragonfly Cobalt like SQ is noticeably superior.

Much better technicalities in general, but the first thing I noticed going from BTR5 to DFC was the much wider and deeper soundstage and three-dimensionality of the sound, practically nonexistent on the BTR5.

I have never tried DFC with ultra sensitive IEMs, so I can't say anything on that point.

Another aspect to consider with these dongles are the EFI noises.

DFC does not suffer from it at all, on others like Lotoo Paw S1 and Earmen Sparrow I have always read negative reports about it.


----------



## a-LeXx (May 19, 2021)

I went with a DFC because I knew it was a safe bet, I like the sound signature of DFR (and am still using it with my second non-IEM setup) and I knew from reports that DFC has much lower noise floor. It was more important to me than playing a hit or miss game with another stuff, as time is money and I've got a DFC at a nice discount...


----------



## Robius

Came across this dac/amp on Aliexpress. It uses and AK4493EQ and comes with 3 outputs.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001780457192.html?mp=1


----------



## Bimbleton

I’m a frequenter of ASR, with all the measurements and whatnot. Based on reviews there, I ordered a Hidizs S9 Pro. By all measurements, it should be vastly superior to my Cobalt!

I’m shocked to say that the Cobalt sounds better.

I have absolutely no explanation why, but I have A/B tested it with my A12T’s, volume matched, and every time the Cobalt sounds better. A better sense of space, slightly sharper (in a good way) and better sense of positioning. The Hidizs, in contrast, almost sounds a little wooly. I can’t believe it, and I have no idea why the better measuring item (Hidizs) sounds noticeably worse than the Cobalt.


----------



## sebek

Bimbleton said:


> I’m a frequenter of ASR, with all the measurements and whatnot. Based on reviews there, I ordered a Hidizs S9 Pro. By all measurements, it should be vastly superior to my Cobalt!
> 
> I’m shocked to say that the Cobalt sounds better.
> 
> I have absolutely no explanation why, but I have A/B tested it with my A12T’s, volume matched, and every time the Cobalt sounds better. A better sense of space, slightly sharper (in a good way) and better sense of positioning. The Hidizs, in contrast, almost sounds a little wooly. I can’t believe it, and I have no idea why the better measuring item (Hidizs) sounds noticeably worse than the Cobalt.


If something gets trashed on ASR there is a very good chance it will sound wonderful, and vice versa.

I also speak from experience, having had many of the mediocre devices they sponsor.

I just stopped reading ASR, because I find all those lobotomized guys really ridiculous and painful.

It's embarrassing how they try to convince themselves based on measurements, that the differences between a $ 30 and a $ 500 dac are inaudible and that the fact that a Mojo or DFC sounds much better than a Tempotec Sonata is only in your imagination.

They shouldn't be taken seriously.


----------



## a-LeXx (May 31, 2021)

Bimbleton said:


> I’m a frequenter of ASR, with all the measurements and whatnot. Based on reviews there, I ordered a Hidizs S9 Pro. By all measurements, it should be vastly superior to my Cobalt!
> 
> I’m shocked to say that the Cobalt sounds better.
> 
> I have absolutely no explanation why, but I have A/B tested it with my A12T’s, volume matched, and every time the Cobalt sounds better. A better sense of space, slightly sharper (in a good way) and better sense of positioning. The Hidizs, in contrast, almost sounds a little wooly. I can’t believe it, and I have no idea why the better measuring item (Hidizs) sounds noticeably worse than the Cobalt.


One important thing they don‘t measure is e.g. phase shift. If there is some frequency-dependent phase shift, it will affect how you can pinpoint instruments in space, with lots of phase shift everything will be smeared…

Apart from that: the only „bad“ thing in their measurements was THD. But harmonic distortion is not necessarily a bad thing, tube amps have usaly higher THD than solid state and are popular exactly for that. And actualy the THD numbers of DFC are not THAT bad…

But on positive side DFC has a very impressive SNR and dynamic range, giving you all the details of your recording not covered by noise.

Btw, a short addition, to put that „bad“ THD numbers in proportion. A usual agreement among the audiophiles is, that THD below 1% is not audible. Ok, asr measure in dB, and claim THD is huge and killing the performance. Well, if you convert their numbers from 78dB in %, what you get is 0.01%.
So, can asr really be serious? They claim inaudible 0.01% of THD is making DFC a bad device? This can only be a joke.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Electronic recording equipment can't measure a smidgen of what the human brain can hear and feel. It might provide some very basic information, such as frequency response, but it really can't tell you how much you'll like the sound, or the emotional connection this will make.


----------



## 118900

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> First time on this thread. Thought I would share my review of the iFi Hip DAC!
> 
> ...



isn't there a thread for that?


----------



## mainguy

Does anyone find the cobalt to be slightly cold/analytical? I got one recently and have noticed going back and forth it just feels a tad colder than my other sources, if that vague word conveys anything.


----------



## a-LeXx

mainguy said:


> Does anyone find the cobalt to be slightly cold/analytical? I got one recently and have noticed going back and forth it just feels a tad colder than my other sources, if that vague word conveys anything.


Not me. I‘m actually using it, because I find other sources cold and clinical. DFC - not at all. Detailed? Yes. Cold? No. It doesn‘t have lots of power to drive many big cans though. With my HD600 it indeed sounds a bit lean and boring. But that‘s because it just does not provide enough juice. Add an amp, and this changes the picture completely. With easier to drive cans or IEMs it‚s not lean, it‘s actually on a warmer side.


----------



## thomasu

Sundavor said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have the Dragonfly Red, does anyone think that the Cobalt is worth the upgrade? I've read a few reviews online and it seems a bit mixed with some reviews saying that it's exactly the same and others saying that it's better. I'm just getting confused at this point from reading reviews.
> 
> Thanks



I've had both, and I can say it is a slight improvement. May not be worth the extra $100 premium for some


----------



## sebek

mainguy said:


> Does anyone find the cobalt to be slightly cold/analytical? I got one recently and have noticed going back and forth it just feels a tad colder than my other sources, if that vague word conveys anything.


It's not cold, but it's certainly less hot than a Mojo and IFI devices.


----------



## mainguy

sebek said:


> It's not cold, but it's certainly less hot than a Mojo and IFI devices.


That's probably why, I'm coming from a Mojo and ifi zen haha.

I really like the cobalt though, its fab on the go. Much less cumbersome than the mojo


----------



## 118900

mainguy said:


> That's probably why, I'm coming from a Mojo and ifi zen haha.
> 
> I really like the cobalt though, its fab on the go. Much less cumbersome than the mojo


Agreed, I have both and what the DFC loses against the mojo in SQ it makes up for in form factor and no charging required. Different horses for different courses.


----------



## mainguy

juansan said:


> Agreed, I have both and what the DFC loses against the mojo in SQ it makes up for in form factor and no charging required. Different horses for different courses.


For sure, the Cobalt with dragontail is a dream in terms of portability. And it really improves my Xperia 1 ii (supposedly a great audiophile option as phones go) while not adding any noticable inconvenience. Very nice little device


----------



## Bimbleton

Simple question but is there a way to use the DFC as a DAC and attach it to an amp for harder-to-drive headphones? What cables would I need?


----------



## meomap

Bimbleton said:


> Simple question but is there a way to use the DFC as a DAC and attach it to an amp for harder-to-drive headphones? What cables would I need?


I use 3.5mm split to 2 regular RCA to my WA6SE tube amp driving HD600 or Aeon Closed.
Look to Amazon or Audioquest.


----------



## 118900

Bimbleton said:


> Simple question but is there a way to use the DFC as a DAC and attach it to an amp for harder-to-drive headphones? What cables would I need?


Just connect it using a 3.5mm to rca cable, but make sure you adjust the output volume accordingly to match you amplifier input requirements.


----------



## mainguy

a/b this with my asus x470 crosshair VII motherboard today, which supposedly has supremefx or whatver. Just out of interest. Of course the dragonfly sounds much better, tried electronic music, more textured sound, more energy overall, clearer vocals.


----------



## 118900

mainguy said:


> a/b this with my asus x470 crosshair VII motherboard today, which supposedly has supremefx or whatver. Just out of interest. Of course the dragonfly sounds much better, tried electronic music, more textured sound, more energy overall, clearer vocals.


And try it with acoustic to really hear the improvement it adds to ambience and 3D location


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> And try it with acoustic to really hear the improvement it adds to ambience and 3D location


That's true. Tonality is nice and important, but where it shines is really with ambience and holographical instrument placement with acoustic music. Of course only with capable HPs/IEMs. Stunning with my Moondrop S8. My beloved SE846 used almost exclusively over past couple of years doesn't stand a chance against S8.


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> That's true. Tonality is nice and important, but where it shines is really with ambience and holographical instrument placement with acoustic music. Of course only with capable HPs/IEMs. Stunning with my Moondrop S8. My beloved SE846 used almost exclusively over past couple of years doesn't stand a chance against S8.


I'm actually very very happy with my SE846/DFC combo to be honest, but I admit that it is my portable option for when I am running, on a plane (when it was still a thing) or on transport. I use different combos for home (Stax/Chord HTT2) or when away from home but not physically on the go (KSE1200/Chord Mojo) and even compared to those combos I don't think the SE846/DFC has ever let me down.


----------



## a-LeXx

juansan said:


> I'm actually very very happy with my SE846/DFC combo to be honest, but I admit that it is my portable option for when I am running, on a plane (when it was still a thing) or on transport. I use different combos for home (Stax/Chord HTT2) or when away from home but not physically on the go (KSE1200/Chord Mojo) and even compared to those combos I don't think the SE846/DFC has ever let me down.


Well, S8 doesn't make SE846 sound bad, but S8 is just better overall. Mainly in treble and imaging (S8 seems to be very compatible with my HRTF, it's a best imaging / holographic sound I'm getting with any HP/IEM I have used in the last 20 years). I always had an issue with SE846's tips. None of the stock tips sound good to me, the best sound I'm getting with them is with some cheap triple flanges. But I can't wear them very long, it's getting too uncomfortable. Second best, which I'm actually using now, are SpinFits CP800. Very comfortable. But they don't go that deep, and so the treble peak moves to a lower frequency, around 8kHz, where it's causing some sibilance. With deeper fit of the triple flanges this peak is moved to something around 10 kHz, which sounds much better. So, with CP800 and white filters, it's sometimes too sibilant, with CP800 and blue filters (with foams removed) it's less sibilance, but also less treble overall... With an S8, I don't have any issues at all, they are shallow fit, so I don't have any comfort issues, and they just sound consistently incredible with everything.


----------



## 118900

a-LeXx said:


> Well, S8 doesn't make SE846 sound bad, but S8 is just better overall. Mainly in treble and imaging (S8 seems to be very compatible with my HRTF, it's a best imaging / holographic sound I'm getting with any HP/IEM I have used in the last 20 years). I always had an issue with SE846's tips. None of the stock tips sound good to me, the best sound I'm getting with them is with some cheap triple flanges. But I can't wear them very long, it's getting too uncomfortable. Second best, which I'm actually using now, are SpinFits CP800. Very comfortable. But they don't go that deep, and so the treble peak moves to a lower frequency, around 8kHz, where it's causing some sibilance. With deeper fit of the triple flanges this peak is moved to something around 10 kHz, which sounds much better. So, with CP800 and white filters, it's sometimes too sibilant, with CP800 and blue filters (with foams removed) it's less sibilance, but also less treble overall... With an S8, I don't have any issues at all, they are shallow fit, so I don't have any comfort issues, and they just sound consistently incredible with everything.


I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the Shure tips, never liked them even when I first used them years ago with the SE425. When I bought the SE846 in 2019 I had the same problem come up again to the point that with the standard tips (of any type included in the packaging) they were either physically uncomfortable/annoying right away or (in the case of the foam tips) they started to hurt my ears after a short while because they would exert too much pressure on the internal ear canals. 

The only original tips which I really liked were the classic Shure yellow foam tips which I found to be excellent and which had the added advantage of going a long way towards cancelling out the background noise, they don't go in too deep and are extremely comfortable, however they have a very short life span.

I eventually tried the Comply TS/TSX (100 size for the Shure IEMs) and found them to be excellent. Supremely comfortable (they use memory foam so the seal properly but without the pressure on the internal ear canal of the normal foam tips), great at isolating external noise (not quite as good as the yellow Shure ones, but they do come close) and long lasting. I eventually ended up buying several pairs to use on the SE846s and the KSE1200 and I absolutely love them. I also like that Comply have an option of a multi-size pack (S, M and L in the same box) which allowed me to try them all before finding the correct size for my ears.


----------



## sebek

JM1979 said:


> IMO, the micro black label isn’t a great Dac. It’s main selling point is the power it puts out for a mobile unit.  It’s been a while since I’ve had one but from memory it doesn’t have the musicality or accuracy of a mojo or Dargonfly red/cobalt.


I have to agree with you 100%.

I bought a iFi micro iDSD Black Label, I expected a lot, I thought it was almost an endgame among portable devices.

I've already put it back on sale.

In a word, I would call it "rough". It completely lacks the musicality, delicacy and magic of the Dragonfly Cobalt, it sounds harsh, sterile and simply unpleasant to listen to.

Judgment based by pairing it with Focal Clear and various IEMs and trying all available settings. Qobuz via UAPP.

Incredible disappointment.


----------



## a-LeXx (Jun 12, 2021)

Since this is a vs. thread, here an a bit unfair comparison. I actually usually don‘t compare, but just had some time today and wanted to check yet again, if I can get rid of DFC and use something more convenient.

So, I decided to compare DFC against my Fiio BTR3 (AKM DAC) that I sometimes use when on the go. Listening was done through Moondrop S8.
As to tonality, BTR3 produces a much warmer and relaxed sound. DFC is what I feel is much closer to neutrality.

To the technical side: BTR3 is sounding very smooth, while DFC has sharp attacks immediately grabbing your attention. Resolution is much higher on DFC. BTR3 does not create much of a soundstage. S8 on BTR3 sounds closer to an HD600 - nice tonality but not very detailed, and soundstage is somehow reduced to stereo. On DFC however, it‘s a completely different presentation, it demands your attention and creates a holographic  soundstage, you can „see“ every instrument in the space. The feeling of listening to headphones is gone, you feel like you are listening to a live performance.

Bottom line: for background listening on the go BTR3 is ok, better than most mobile phones anyway, it has a pleasant inoffensive quality, enough if you are just relaxing. DFC is technically on a whole different level, not really relaxing with S8, but incredibly capable, a dream match for analytical listening.


----------



## iFi audio

sebek said:


> it sounds harsh, sterile and simply unpleasant to listen to.



If I may, harsh, sterile and in general rough sound doesn't fit micro iDSD BL's profile at all. Our DACs and DAC/amp combos lean towards warmth, substance and music flow just to step away from sterility, harshness etc., and in fact they're known for this profile. Just my 0,02 
Thanks for giving it a try though


----------



## Bimbleton

Quick question — how do I use set up an iPhone -> DFC -> Schiit Heresy? I imagine the DFC has to be a line out. Do I just max out the volume on my iPhone for the DFC function as a DAC?


----------



## 118900

Bimbleton said:


> Quick question — how do I use set up an iPhone -> DFC -> Schiit Heresy? I imagine the DFC has to be a line out. Do I just max out the volume on my iPhone for the DFC function as a DAC?


I already answered you in post 1046 of this thread


----------



## Krizit

Having a strange volume issue with DFC.

Prior to a couple days ago I had to keep my windows volume < 10 or the DFC was too loud. Now even if I set windows volume to 100 it's still too quiet? Volume is fine when using my phone.

Is anybody aware of what might be happening?


----------



## TK33

Krizit said:


> Having a strange volume issue with DFC.
> 
> Prior to a couple days ago I had to keep my windows volume < 10 or the DFC was too loud. Now even if I set windows volume to 100 it's still too quiet? Volume is fine when using my phone.
> 
> Is anybody aware of what might be happening?


No issues here. Amazon Music HD --> Windows 10 laptop (Dell XPS 9310) --> DFC --> SE846 and listening on volume 2/100.  Have you checked the app volume? For example, Amazon's app has separate volume control if not using exclusive mode.


----------



## Krizit

TK33 said:


> No issues here. Amazon Music HD --> Windows 10 laptop (Dell XPS 9310) --> DFC --> SE846 and listening on volume 2/100.  Have you checked the app volume? For example, Amazon's app has separate volume control if not using exclusive mode.


Yeah tested with Spotify and Youtube and made sure volume is set to maximum in both, output from DFC is extremely quiet in all apps and with system sounds too.

Same here I used it at 2/100 most of the time too, now with volume maxed everywhere possible it's too quiet.


----------



## smutnyjoe

I owned a Dragonfly Cobalt some time ago and really miss such a device. I really prefer this form than a big external transportable DAC (ifi idsd micro bl) or big DAP. But I remember it was quite a metallic with my IEMs. Does anybody here use it with UM MEST that I own now and can share some opinion?


----------



## Flashbolt

Does anyone have experience using a DFC with a PS5?


----------



## 118900

Flashbolt said:


> Does anyone have experience using a DFC with a PS5?


How would that work?


----------



## Flashbolt

Plugging in the Cobalt into the back of the PS5.  I saw conflicting comments on reddit and was wondering if anyone had experience here.


----------



## Nick-firestorm

sebek said:


> I have to agree with you 100%.
> 
> I bought a iFi micro iDSD Black Label, I expected a lot, I thought it was almost an endgame among portable devices.
> 
> ...



absolutely yes, same experience with the black label........

had chordmojo - great but too troublesome with charging etc
ifi black label was a joke
is cobalt delivering the magic? anything else you compared with or RED or BLACK?


----------



## 118900

Flashbolt said:


> Plugging in the Cobalt into the back of the PS5.  I saw conflicting comments on reddit and was wondering if anyone had experience here.


sorry I can't help. have you asked on the unnameable site?


----------



## 118900

Head fi has confirmed it is deleting my account (my own request) and as this is one of the last very few threads I have remained on I just wanted to say goodbye to those (nice ones) of you that have accompanied me on here in these past years. Happy listening to everyone.


----------



## Edyeded86

juansan said:


> Head fi has confirmed it is deleting my account (my own request) and as this is one of the last very few threads I have remained on I just wanted to say goodbye to those (nice ones) of you that have accompanied me on here in these past years. Happy listening to everyone.


Why cancelling bro?


----------



## 118900

Edyeded86 said:


> Why cancelling bro?


Too many arguments


----------



## Steve Wilcox

No there's not.


----------



## susko

FWIW I demoed the xDSD and cobalt side by side and the xDSD won me over with tonality and some nice bass extension with the xbass setting.  Both performed well in general though, and you can't argue how much more portable the cobalt is!


----------



## mainguy (Sep 8, 2021)

guys im having an issue with my new dragonfly and iPhone. Using the camera adapter sometimes my phone recognises it, sometimes not. It seems totally random, any ideas? I tried a dragonfly red and same deal. iPhone XS max. When it doesnt work i get a message saying the accessory isnt supported...


----------



## smutnyjoe

mainguy said:


> guys im having an issue with my new dragonfly and iPhone. Using the camera adapter sometimes my phone recognises it, sometimes not. It seems totally random, any ideas? I tried a dragonfly red and same deal. iPhone XS max. When it doesnt work i get a message saying the accessory isnt supported...


When I was using the Dragonfly Cobal, I had the same issue. The fix is easy: you have to unplug the camera adapter, rotate it by 180 degrees and plug it again


----------



## mainguy

smutnyjoe said:


> When I was using the Dragonfly Cobal, I had the same issue. The fix is easy: you have to unplug the camera adapter, rotate it by 180 degrees and plug it again


Lord have mercy on my soul. Mine is backwards so I have to put it in 'upside' down but it works!

As a side note, absolutely loving this little thing. Replaced my Mojo and the added convenience is a huge boon


----------



## susko

I still can't decide if I should sell the Cobalt and get a Red and pocket a decent amount of change hmm, thoughts?


----------



## a-LeXx

Depends on what you need to drive with it. DFR is pretty noisy with low-impedance high-sensitivity IEMs. Cobalt is silent. Both have the same front-end, so output power would be the same. If you don't use sensitive IEMs, you could be happy with DFR. I have both, use DFR as a DAC (with Fiio A5 as an AMP) to drive all big cans, and Cobalt with all IEMs.


----------



## pataburd

Do without the Cobalt, if you(r) can(s).  Just my $0.02.


----------



## andrewski

pataburd said:


> Do without the Cobalt, if you(r) can(s).  Just my $0.02.


That's not helpful


----------



## pataburd

andrewski said:


> That's not helpful


See my post elsewhere: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dra...-not-worth-its-price-tag.913754/post-16607928


----------



## ss2625

can anybody comment on the cobalt vs modi/magni stack for iems and cans?


----------



## tomwebster

mainguy said:


> guys im having an issue with my new dragonfly and iPhone. Using the camera adapter sometimes my phone recognises it, sometimes not. It seems totally random, any ideas? I tried a dragonfly red and same deal. iPhone XS max. When it doesnt work i get a message saying the accessory isnt supported...



Also worth trying to clear out all the fluff from the lightning port on your phone. Surprising how much gets in there and I have had times when charging is ok but USB accessories aren’t. Wooden tooth pick and a whole lot of fluff removed and all worked fine. 

Worth a try.


----------



## Edyeded86

tomwebster said:


> Also worth trying to clear out all the fluff from the lightning port on your phone. Surprising how much gets in there and I have had times when charging is ok but USB accessories aren’t. Wooden tooth pick and a whole lot of fluff removed and all worked fine.
> 
> Worth a try.


This always seems to work for me too!


----------



## The1Signature

i just bought a cobalt. so far so good. however, when i use my windows 10 laptop and i open the tidal app, and enable exclusive mode... i hear only scratching sound. the qobuz app works fine on the laptop. it is just the tidal app with exclusive only, which does not switch to purple (MQA) and make scratching noise. does anybody experience the same issue?


----------



## The1Signature

another issue i noticed: once connected to android smartphone and using native tidal app, which supports dragonfly dac support and recognizes it... the first song is always super super loud, although the level is just 1. so the song starts with normal level 1. when i just to level 2, it sounds like level 100... so have to decrease it first immediately to 0 before i can listen in a normal way.


----------



## ivanm

lara said:


> another issue i noticed: once connected to android smartphone and using native tidal app, which supports dragonfly dac support and recognizes it... the first song is always super super loud, although the level is just 1. so the song starts with normal level 1. when i just to level 2, it sounds like level 100... so have to decrease it first immediately to 0 before i can listen in a normal way


Did you let the phone "take control" of the cobalt? (Shouldn't be allowed). As far as I know only few apps that can be allowed to control Dongle DACs properly (like UAPP for example). And what android phone do you use? With which android version?


----------



## The1Signature

i use note 20 ultra from samsung. android 11.

yes i gave tidal the control of the DF. if you don't do that you will not get bitperfect, so no purple color on the DF = android standard mixer . once i give it the control. it works perfectly, actually, besides the one problem mentioned above.


----------



## Hubert481

What lightning-adapter cable are you using?

Audioquest says:
Note: In our tests, Apple's Lightning-to-USB 3 Camera Adapter (with charging port) sounds better and is more reliable than Apple's less expensive Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter, while also providing the ability to charge during playback. Your mileage may vary. Some users prefer the size of the smaller adapter, while others prefer the performance of the larger adapter. We encourage experimentation.


----------



## The1Signature

Lightning?

see my first sentence: i use note 20 ultra from samsung. android 11.

so i use the original included typ-c usb cable.


----------



## Hubert481

Lightning is for apple
you are not using an apple
apple is using lightning-adapter


----------



## chickifat123

Any1 here have test the Cobalt against the new Cayin RU6 ? Would love to hear about it !


----------



## Jaabaas

I am getting back into IEMs after a long time with just headphones. I used to have two reds, but in both cases the back panel came off when pushing the USB into laptop or phone-adapter afer too much use. is this (still) a common issue? still don't seem many good alternatives to the audioquest options for portability.


----------



## Edyeded86

Jaabaas said:


> I am getting back into IEMs after a long time with just headphones. I used to have two reds, but in both cases the back panel came off when pushing the USB into laptop or phone-adapter afer too much use. is this (still) a common issue? still don't seem many good alternatives to the audioquest options for portability.


look at the lottoo paw s1


----------



## Jaabaas

Edyeded86 said:


> look at the lottoo paw s1


Thank you very much, I don't know why I haven't seen this before, but it looks great, and has a 4.4mm too! (which my current iems use) perfect! I will spend the rest of my day looking at revies, thanks again!


----------



## Edyeded86

Jaabaas said:


> Thank you very much, I don't know why I haven't seen this before, but it looks great, and has a 4.4mm too! (which my current iems use) perfect! I will spend the rest of my day looking at revies, thanks again!


there's an s2 version that is also newly released. Others to also consider Earman Sparrow, Fiio BTR5, shanling ua2, Astel & Kern USB c...


----------



## Jaabaas

The first three of those are also going on the list of reviews to check! the fact that the fiio is bluetooth could be both an advantage and a disadvantage, so the reviews there will be interesting to see. thanks for the help!


----------



## meomap

You can try Cayin RU6 USB C dongle. It's a R2R DAC designed inside..
I think it's better than Cobalt.
Surprisingly sounds good.
Have both 4.4mm and 3.5mm connections and more powers.


----------



## Jaabaas

meomap said:


> You can try Cayin RU6 USB C dongle. It's a R2R DAC designed inside..
> I think it's better than Cobalt.
> Surprisingly sounds good.
> Have both 4.4mm and 3.5mm connections and more powers.


thanks a lot! also on the list! looks very good and I'm familiar with a cayin dac, that's always nice as well.


----------



## chickifat123

Have any1 here try to put the cobalt with an ifi ipurifier 3 ?. I'm thinking to invest an ipurifier just for the intention of have a solid future proof audio source from my PC. Noisy gaming PC >> Usb A to B > ifi ipurifer (usb B to A) going up to my desktop table. Been wondering since the Cobalt has a jitterbug will it make any changes better or worse.


----------



## 486892

I used to have DFR for few times and both times it got sold, because of the 'artificial' soundstage it produces. I had so high hopes of it.

Now I wanted to give a shot for DFC, and what an upgrade! 

A much more open and more fresh soundstage, and silkier treble, and tight dynamics. Whole freq spectrum sound better than Red one in dynamic and tuning wise. 

Price and size wise this guy has some qualities that are hard to beat.


----------



## xirxes

I have used and sold DFC and it I could have just stuck with easy to drive cans like my initial Beyer dt770 pro 80 ohm I’d be a happy camper. The noises that came out of iPhone-dongle-DFC-DT770 pro were so good and amazing for price point. This is amazing even for in PC line I’d take it over anything that soundblaster makes.

I had to go and chase the rabbit down the hole though. The hole is deep and the rabbit chews up money and poops out incremental increases in sound quality that are hallucinogenic and addictive.

I recommend DFC as a stopping point lol.


----------



## 486892

xirxes said:


> I have used and sold DFC and it I could have just stuck with easy to drive cans like my initial Beyer dt770 pro 80 ohm I’d be a happy camper. The noises that came out of iPhone-dongle-DFC-DT770 pro were so good and amazing for price point. This is amazing even for in PC line I’d take it over anything that soundblaster makes.
> 
> I had to go and chase the rabbit down the hole though. The hole is deep and the rabbit chews up money and poops out incremental increases in sound quality that are hallucinogenic and addictive.
> 
> I recommend DFC as a stopping point lol.


My reference is RME adi-2 fs DAC with Neve RNHP and SSL 4K console. 

The sound is different between Cobalt and the reference, but as attractive. That's the whole point of sound - how well balanced is the overall sound spectrum to your ears. Not your hallucinogenic experience of others ears.


----------



## 486892

Nick-firestorm said:


> absolutely yes, same experience with the black label........
> 
> had chordmojo - great but too troublesome with charging etc
> ifi black label was a joke
> is cobalt delivering the magic? anything else you compared with or RED or BLACK?


I'm same. I have Mojo laying around just as a reference, but not in regular use, because of same reason. You will be suprised the sound of Cobalt. I would have never expected that after dissapointing rounds with Red.


----------



## mvule




----------



## The1Signature

I bought just both:
- ifi hip dac 2 and
- audioquest dragonFly cobalt

i have also the shanling m8 when i want to listen to music at home.

however, when being outside, i am not sure which one of both ifi or AQ is better.

does anybody have had the possibility to compare them both?

i am asking because the AQ, especially the cobalt version with firmware v1.0, still, has so many problems on laptop and smartphone:
- laptop: cracking sound with tidal desktop app when doing exclusive mode. this mode is however necessary for getting puple color = MQA
- smartphone (samsung note 20 ultra): when using tidal and having lowest volume, the AQ gives full power, cracking sound and very loud for a moment, until i reduce the volume - also known issue by tidal. it is so loud that i always get very shocked for a moment when i forget it...

so the AQ is very small and handy. but i heard that the ifi is just better. 

since i haven'open the brand-new hip dac 2 from its box, i wanted to ask you guys first.


----------



## trondav

I have had: Audioquest Dragonfly Black, Red and Cobalt, Pro-Ject Pre S2 Digital, Chord Mojo, iFI Zen DAC V2 and more for mobile use. Just bought the fantastic ifi Hip DAC V2. What a wonderful small device. It sounds AMAZING for the price. Runs with my Focal Elegia. My verdict! 5/5.


----------



## The1Signature

trondav said:


> I have had: Audioquest Dragonfly Black, Red and Cobalt, Pro-Ject Pre S2 Digital, Chord Mojo, iFI Zen DAC V2 and more for mobile use. Just bought the fantastic ifi Hip DAC V2. What a wonderful small device. It sounds AMAZING for the price. Runs with my Focal Elegia. My verdict! 5/5.


what a great answer here.

thank you so much for that @trondav


----------



## Gus141 (Feb 6, 2022)

Hey, I thought I would post here to highlight the use of a magsafe wallet case as a holder of a
dragonfly Cobalt to attach to an iPhone.

I have been using this solution with an L&P W2 DAC after a member over on that thread posted his idea; but, recently, I thought maybe I should see if this would work also with the Cobalt. It works great!

The cool thing, is you can still see the LED through the whole in the wallet (see second image showing MQA-magenta). Pictures are using this wallet with an iPhone 12 mini.

Note: I used the Apple Lightning to  USB 3 Camera Adapter and this magsafe wallet.

Cheers.
P.S. Here are posts with pictures using this wallet with the W2:
Post 1
Post 2


----------



## sebek

https://www.audioreviews.org/headphone-dac-amps-guide-jk/#AudioQuest_DragonFly_Cobalt_300

_AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt ($300)
US design. The smoothie of the dongle world and the dongle with the best sound quality by a long shot. Has simply the biggest note weight, most natural/organic sonic reproduction, and best musicality. It is not its power or resolution or staging that puts it ahead (by $100), it just sounds better. Voices are richer and fuller compared to the other models below.

For people who do not want to make compromises. Received criticism for being overpriced by people looking at the specs/measurements only. You pay for the sound quality, not sound quantity. Output is the same as in the DragonFly Red._

Review of one who has a good ear and does not look at stupid measurements.


----------



## bujinkan

i have the cobalt 1 year now and i am pretty happy with it
 i use it on my iphone with iems but aslo at home on the laptop with my hifiman ananda and focal celestee
I did an impulsive buy 2 days ago , the ifi zen dac v2
I did compare the 2 on my laptop through tidal app an oh my god. I find the zen dac v2 so much better than the cobalt
Especialy on the focal celestee it made them sound so so so good. I never heard them so good through the cobalt.


----------



## audiobot

Gus141 said:


> Hey, I thought I would post here to highlight the use of a magsafe wallet case as a holder of a
> dragonfly Cobalt to attach to an iPhone.
> 
> I have been using this solution with an L&P W2 DAC after a member over on that thread posted his idea; but, recently, I thought maybe I should see if this would work also with the Cobalt. It works great!
> ...


Beautiful. Thank you for this. Does the dragonfly overheat when placed inside the MagSafe wallet? I wonder if the Cayin RU6 will fit inside as well.


----------



## pataburd (Apr 6, 2022)

bujinkan said:


> i have the cobalt 1 year now and i am pretty happy with it
> i use it on my iphone with iems but aslo at home on the laptop with my hifiman ananda and focal celestee
> I did an impulsive buy 2 days ago , the ifi zen dac v2
> I did compare the 2 on my laptop through tidal app an oh my god. I find the zen dac v2 so much better than the cobalt
> Especialy on the focal celestee it made them sound so so so good. I never heard them so good through the cobalt.


In my experience, I preferred the DF Red--even the Black v 1.5--to the Cobalt.  

Aside from its portability/convenience, the Cobalt is grossly overrated as a DAC, IMHO, sounding comparatively sharp and edgy.  

Both the Topping D50s and, more so, the Topping E50, significantly outperformed the Cobalt, while costing significantly less.  For me, Red is the "sweet spot" in the DF line.


----------



## catvsgrizzly

technobear said:


> Hmmm. Interesting thread. I seem to have entered a parallel universe where break-in and warm-up don't exist.
> 
> All the impressions and comparisons so far are worthless because:
> 
> ...


Hey all, was there any verdict after the weeks, months and years went by?


----------



## technobear

catvsgrizzly said:


> Hey all, was there any verdict after the weeks, months and years went by?


Aha, one of my old 'preaching about break-in' posts. Still as relevent today.

I never went down the dongle path. I prefer to use a DAP on the move and I was using ifi micro pieces back in 2019 for desktop use.  I still have most of them but these days I am mostly using a Hugo 2. So I can't tell you how good the Dragonfly is, only that it seems to have plenty of fans.


----------



## catvsgrizzly

technobear said:


> Aha, one of my old 'preaching about break-in' posts. Still as relevent today.
> 
> I never went down the dongle path. I prefer to use a DAP on the move and I was using ifi micro pieces back in 2019 for desktop use.  I still have most of them but these days I am mostly using a Hugo 2. So I can't tell you how good the Dragonfly is, only that it seems to have plenty of fans.


Sounds like some solid set ups there! Great gear.
I put my new cobalt through its paces over the last few days (continual use in a stereo set up) and it has made a world of difference. Haven't been this excited to listen to music for a long long time : )


----------



## sebek (Jul 31, 2022)

On Dragonfly Cobalt I can only recommend reading the fantastic review by Jurgen Kraus @Otto Motor on audioreviews.

He hits the point very well.

The difference between the Cobalt and so many junk dongles on the market, with a thin and anti-musical sound, lies in the perfect weight of the note, in the realism and in the extreme naturalness that most other dongles do not even come close.


----------



## Otto Motor

And it is small...and low on the phone's power.


----------



## jprenaud78

Gus141 said:


> Hey, I thought I would post here to highlight the use of a magsafe wallet case as a holder of a
> dragonfly Cobalt to attach to an iPhone.
> 
> I have been using this solution with an L&P W2 DAC after a member over on that thread posted his idea; but, recently, I thought maybe I should see if this would work also with the Cobalt. It works great!
> ...


Hi,
How do you plug your cobalt ?
Best regards


----------



## Otto Motor (Aug 15, 2022)

Looks like a good idea. I have a leather case around the phone so that this likely won't work for me.


----------



## Stevko

Still worth buying DFC in 2022?
Worth the money?many says NO.
Other Love it. Amir don’t like it.. who cares?
Nice color!
Made in US! Who want a china dongle?


----------



## jprenaud78

Stevko said:


> Still worth buying DFC in 2022?
> Worth the money?many says NO.
> Other Love it. Amir don’t like it.. who cares?
> Nice color!
> Made in US! Who want a china dongle?


I baught it i wiî give you my feed


----------



## Stevko

jprenaud78 said:


> I baught it i wiî give you my feed


Almost bought one too,after seeing this review:


But after watching this,not sure 😳:


----------



## jprenaud78

Stevko said:


> Almost bought one too,after seeing this review:
> 
> 
> But after watching this,not sure 😳:



Lol like almost all reviews we have good or bad point lol


----------



## Hubert481

If you dont like it - dont buy it

what should you buy instead? 9038D ?


----------



## Stevko

Hubert481 said:


> If you dont like it - dont buy it
> 
> what should you buy instead? 9038D ?


Maybe. Looks like a great choice or an eagle/sparrow


----------



## Stevko

Hubert481 said:


> If you dont like it - dont buy it
> 
> what should you buy instead? 9038D ?



Hard to find a 9038d.
But if I find a DFR or DFC for a nice price. I`ll take it...

looks like red is a great choice.:

*Conclusions*

The one thing, above all, we can learn from these tests is that the DAC chip itself provides little indication regarding the performance of a finished product. As the poor distortion figures of the Cobalt show, even a high-end chip can be compromised by the specifics of the implementation.

Is the Cobalt worth the additional $100 in retail price over the Red? Apart from a 5 mm reduction in length and a blue paint job, not much has changed. The features and drive capability remain exactly the same. Although the DAC chip has been upgraded to a much more expensive one ($25 vs $10 in sample quantities), there is little, if anything, to show for the effort in terms of measured performance.


----------



## jprenaud78




----------



## Otto Motor (Aug 23, 2022)

Stevko said:


> Still worth buying DFC in 2022?
> Worth the money?many says NO.
> Other Love it. Amir don’t like it.. who cares?
> Nice color!
> Made in US! Who want a china dongle?


No dongle is universally good. It depends what you are using it for.

The DF Cobalt is designed for low current draw from your phone. It therefore supplies limited power. The company does not recommend to use it for iem/headphones below 24 ohm impedance (as they suck too much current and then the bass sounds muddy).

Amir used the Cobalt with insensitive headphones - his analysis is completely useless. He is just an opinionated ideolog.

Other dongles supply more power but this drains our phones very fast, or they don't work with iPhone at all.  An excellent example is the Questyle M15.

The DF Cobalt sounds excellent, but is of limited use as described above. The Questyle M15 uses more power and is also excellent, but drains your phone faster...and is therefore also of limited use. There is no ideal dongle (without a battery).

These are the two I personally recommend. But to answer your question: yes, the Cobalt is worth buying if it fits your purpose. And yes, the countless cheap Chines dongles do not sound as good.

As to the age of the Cobalt (2019)...the excellent Apogee Groove is from 2015 and still top notch...but it does not work with phones and hybrid iems at all.


Here my measurements of current draw of selected dongles. Anything above 100 mA does not work with iPhone.






Here some reading on the technologies:

https://www.audioreviews.org/dongle-dilemma/
https://www.audioreviews.org/dongles-portable-dac-amps/
https://www.audioreviews.org/headphone-dac-amps-guide-jk/
https://www.audioreviews.org/dacs-amps/


----------



## Hubert481

So the DFR seems to be the better choice for iOS?


----------



## Otto Motor

Hubert481 said:


> So the DFR seems to be the better choice for iOS?


They all work but I'd not go above the Earmen Sparrow at 490 mA/3 hrs.


----------



## Stevko (Aug 23, 2022)

Otto Motor said:


> No dongle is universally good. It depends what you are using it for.
> 
> The DF Cobalt is designed for low current draw from your phone. It therefore supplies limited power. The company does not recommend to use it for iem/headphones below 24 ohm impedance (as they suck too much current and then the bass sounds muddy).
> 
> ...


Think a DF will be perfect for me.

X Gonna use it with 32ohm HP`s
X low current draw
X nice color
X made in US
X possible to update firmware
X no tiny USB, more robust
X driver less, work with anything
X can us it as DAC with 2V out

Apogee looks like a good dongle. but 20ohm output impedance


----------



## Hubert481

There has never been any fw-update for DF - B or R or C


----------



## Stevko

yes, I updated my DFB in 2016/2017


----------



## Hubert481

Not for iOS


----------



## Stevko

not? what?


----------



## KevinJB (Aug 23, 2022)

.


----------



## Otto Motor

KevinJB said:


> I got some new campfire IEMs and they are unusable on the Cobalt on the iPad due to crazy minimum volume from sensitivity of them.
> On MacBook I can use midi setup to reduce master volume of the cobalt which helps on MacBook.
> Is there anyway to do the same on the Cobalt on iPad as at moment it’s unusable with my campfire IEMs
> Cheers
> Kev


Yes, because your Campfires have way too low impedance and therefore way too high power consumption.


----------



## KevinJB (Sep 10, 2022)

I’ve ordered a iFi cable attenuator so hopefully will fix the issue 
Kev


----------



## gooeyrich

What are some more affordable well-regarded usb dac/amp alternatives to the cobalt? I’m planning running an akg n40 and noble x.


----------



## 1nilla

gooeyrich said:


> What are some more affordable well-regarded usb dac/amp alternatives to the cobalt? I’m planning running an akg n40 and noble x.


Hidisz s9 pro. Yeah it's a lot cheaper than Cobalt but can't think of any with remarkable sound and compact size.


----------



## Sotiris

gooeyrich said:


> What are some more affordable well-regarded usb dac/amp alternatives to the cobalt? I’m planning running an akg n40 and noble x.


E1da 9038d or 9038s


----------



## gooeyrich (Oct 10, 2022)

1nilla said:


> Hidisz s9 pro. Yeah it's a lot cheaper than Cobalt but can't think of any with remarkable sound and compact size.





Sotiris said:


> E1da 9038d or 9038s


Thank you for those recommendations, how would you say they compare to the following offerings from monoprice and audioengine?                                                                                                 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...MIrfzf9Z7W-gIVUgx9Ch2PaQZnEAQYASABEgItLfD_BwE https://audioengine.com/shop/components/dac3-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## gooeyrich (Oct 10, 2022)

Disregard this post, still looking for an answer on the above though.


----------



## gooeyrich

Another one I found: https://earmen-shop.com/products/eagle


----------



## jprenaud78

Earmen is good 
I have an tr-amp for my desk 
The new Angel seems excellent


----------



## andrewski

In Canada the Cobalt dropped to $325 from almost all sellers. The Red is still $300.


----------



## Hubert481

New one isin the pipe


----------



## jjazzy (Oct 27, 2022)

sebek said:


> I have to agree with you 100%.
> 
> I bought a iFi micro iDSD Black Label, I expected a lot, I thought it was almost an endgame among portable devices.
> 
> ...


I have the cobalt and now the ifi xdsd gryphon, this is the first time I say, the ifi wins, but cost more ofcourse. Still think the cobalt is a real nice piece of kit in a extreme small package. So keep them both, different use case. 

Use it with the se846


----------



## jprenaud78

Cobalt is really nomad and with my iphone i don’t need a dap… May be a charger lol


----------



## jjazzy (Oct 27, 2022)

What shocked me most, had a day with a few dacs, the ifi gryphon and cobalt are really close in sound signature, gryphon is more detailed and smooth. The one’s I really dislike was the fiio btr5 and btr7, this is already the third device of fiio I don’t like, they seem to have a real typical sound I don’t like.

In my honest opinion the cobalt wins hands on from btr5 and 7, if you look at musicality (don’t care about measurements, I listen to music not look at a analyzer).

The cobalt is even more musical than the hip dac, so some hate the cobalt, I think it is a amazing device


----------



## jjazzy

Hubert481 said:


> New one isin the pipe


Any rumors of a launch date?


----------



## TK33

Hubert481 said:


> New one isin the pipe


Hope you're right and that it is released soon.  Pretty sure my Cobalt is on its last legs.  Been getting some random digital noise/distortion when using with PC and laptop and random skips every 30 seconds with my Samsung phone (wasn't happening with my Qudelix 5K a few minutes ago).  Still really enjoy the sound with the SE846 when it works though.  Also hoping that any newer version has some lower volume settings for those of us with sensitive IEMs who prefer to listen at lower volumes.  I am literally listening at the lowest volume setting (1 click above mute) on my Samsung S22+.  2nd lowest is ok for louder environments.  3rd lowest is already too loud for me (I counted 15 volume steps).  I recall there used to be a Samsung SoundAssisrant app that allowed you to increase volume steps but doesnt seem to be available anymore.


----------



## gooeyrich

Does anyone have input on this?

https://www.amazon.com/Fosi-Audio-H...9GFJ?msclkid=6bd52dc062d311ed8bad73e02069a5de


----------



## jprenaud78

No but its bulky vs cobalt


----------



## jjazzy (Nov 13, 2022)

jprenaud78 said:


> No but its bulky vs cobalt


I agree too bulky, but can comment, O sold my dragon fly and exchanged it for a ifi gryphon, kept going back, nomather how I loved the small size of the dragonfly cobalt.

Propably if I want something small, I would buy a ifi go bar or ifi go blu

If you want something small and cheap I would forger about fosi and get a hiby fc3 or fc5, a dragonfly black or red, ifi go blu, something of fiio.

I had a bluetooth amp, of fosi, it was okay for the price and use case, (garden house)  but that was it. I even had to be carefull enabling the amp, because it plopped loudly in the speakers.


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## jprenaud78

I had paw s1, lp w2 i sold all for cobalt easier to use with iPhone for me


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## jjazzy

jprenaud78 said:


> I had paw s1, lp w2 i sold all for cobalt easier to use with iPhone for me


I see it depends on the use case ofcourse. I mostly listen at home. Also use planar headphones ans balanced IEM. If I want high end, i use my gryphon. I don’t like a desktop amp because you can’t move around in the house, gryphon best of both worlds)

Music on the go (which rarely happens) I use se846+tw2 (or I buy something else). Doing bootcamps and crossfit I use airpods pro, not the best sound but for the given situation ideal.

Sometimes I think, I could have kept the cobalt, because I agree it sounds good. I did hate it never supported DSD, and I have a lot of albums. 

I sold it because rumors of a new device coming from audioquest, and when it comes out, everything else drops in price. The cobalt dropped already to 249, the red dropped as well.


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## jprenaud78

I understand but for the moment i don’t need beter. It’s already good for my only use


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## jjazzy

jprenaud78 said:


> I understand but for the moment i don’t need beter. It’s already good for my only use


If that’s enough than that is the right choice for you👍🏼, it for sure is a cheaper option than mine, saves money


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## FlyingFungus

I still use my Audioquest Dragonfly that I've had for at least 7-8 years. Tempted to eventually get another!


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## iFi audio

jjazzy said:


> Propably if I want something small, I would buy a ifi go bar or ifi go blu



Thanks! If running on a smartphone's battery isn't an issue, GO Bar is very small considering what it does


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## gazzington

jprenaud78 said:


>


Looks a cool set up. What phone and case is that?  Is that a dt1770 headphone?


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## Stevko

gazzington said:


> Looks a cool set up. What phone and case is that?  Is that a dt1770 headphone?


T5/T1


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## jprenaud78

gazzington said:


> Looks a cool set up. What phone and case is that?  Is that a dt1770 headphone?


T1 3rd


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