# REVIEW:  Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC



## HeadphoneAddict

*Sources*: Macbook Pro with Pico USB DAC-0nly, and with EF2 built-in USB DAC.

*Music*: Apple Lossless rips of Mark Isham + Kate Ceberano "Bittersweet", John H. Clark "Acoustik Guitar", Shelby Lynn "Just a Little Lovin", Jack Johnson "Sleep Through the Static" and "On and On", Arvo Part "Tabula Rasa", Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley", Diana Krall "Live in Paris", Helge Lein Trio "Hello Troll", Infected Mushroom "B.P. Empire", Valerie Joyce "New York Blue", Eric Satie "Piano Miniatures" (mastered by John Willett), Glenn Gould "Bach: Goldberg Variations", Beck "Sea Change" Gold Master, Red Hot Chili Peppers "Stadium Arcadium", and Patricia Barber "Nightclub".

*Headphones*: Sennheiser HD800, Grado HF-2 and RS-1, Alessandro MS-1, Denon D2000 (woodied re-cabled), Ultimate Ears UE11Pro, Westone ES3X, and Nuforce UF-30.

 Head-Direct has been developing their own "house-brand" headphone amps and IEM, with a soon to be released DAP with USB and coax DAC. Their new name for their own gear is HiFiMan. Prior to CanJam I made arrangements with Fang at Head-Direct to bring home a new model amp, the EF2, which would be unveiled at CanJam. The HiFiMan EF2 is a small $189 tube hybrid amp which I am estimating is about 2.5" tall by 3" deep by about 5" wide. It uses a pair of 6J1 tubes, and includes an integrated USB DAC with a Burr Brown Japan PCM2702E DAC chip. It has a switch on the front panel to change the input between the rear RCA to USB jack. The volume knob has tactile detents but is not a stepped attenuator, and it has very good low volume channel balance when using high sensitivity IEM at very low volume knob positions. It is powered by a small 16V AC wall wart, not DC, so it cannot be powered by a portable battery pack.






 I first tried it out at CanJam at their demo table. I've previously reviewed and owned their EF1, which I enjoyed very much as a mid-range best-bang-for-the-buck tube hybrid amp. I preferred the EF1 over the Grahm Slee beta NOVO and my old Dark Voice 336i, for use with a variety of headphones but especially with my Grado RS-1 and Denon D2000. My first impression when listening to the EF2 with my HD600 was "wow this sounds like the EF1 but for $100 less money!" I tried it via RCA input with their source and via USB on their laptop, and I was sold on it as a nice small desktop PC amp. The only thing I heard at CanJam to distinguish the EF2 from the EF1 was when I listened to them with the prototype RE5 orthodynamic headphones which sit at something like 4-8 ohms, and the EF1 could clearly drive the RE5 better. But driving headphones at 4-8 ohms is not really a a fair test of how well the EF2 can perform.

 I took the EF2 home with me after CanJam 09, and proceeded to burn it in with my HD800 and HF-2 that came home with me as well. It was fairly fresh with only a few hours on it at first, and seemed slightly bright at times with the HD800 and RS-1, but not bright at all with the HD600, D2000 and HF-2. Over the course of 300 hours the amp came into it's own, with a fuller bass and smoother treble, and so I began working on my review. At this time the amp has at least 400 hours on it, with 300 hours on the nice sounding stock tubes and 100 hours on the upgraded NOS Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that I bought from Skylab. I did much of my listening to the amp with the Pico USB DAC-only, to get a sense of it's best performance, and then towards the end I listened to the built-in DAC for comparisons. But, I'll go ahead and talk about the DAC first, and get that out of the way.

*DAC*: The DAC is nice but not mind blowing - it's a Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 and sounds about on par with the 3MOVE and XM5 DAC which use the same chip, and is also similar in quality to the USB DAC in my RSA Predator. It is a little less detailed and spacious than the Pico or iBasso D10 DAC via USB, but it still does a good job and sounds better than the USB DAC in the iBasso D1 or Headstage Lyrix did. The EF2 via built-in USB DAC is noticeably more detailed and transparent than using the Macbook headphone out with a mini-RCA to feed the EF2. I also preferred the built-in DAC over feeding a 4G Nano into the EF2 with an LOD>RCA cable.

 The PCM2702 internal DAC as the source provides a slightly lower volume level than when feeding the Ef2 from the Pico DAC via RCA, but one or two clicks on the volume knob is enough to match the levels between the internal and external DACs. Both the EF2 DAC and the amp section are very quiet with my custom IEM and don't hiss or make noise - and the volume knob has very good control at very low volumes without any channel imbalance. When switching from the built-in DAC to the Pico DAC, the main change in sound is the expansion of the soundstage width and depth, and the extra micro-detail and ambience, but the sound signature and frequency balance don't seem to change much at all. It sounds the same in tone after the switch in DACs, but also sounds like a slight veil was removed from the sound with the upgraded DAC.

*AMP*: Moving on to the amplifier section, the rest of the review covers the sound when using the Pico USB DAC-only. The amp is good enough to scale up with an improved source and appreciate the extra detail. With the stock tubes the amp's sound signature became warmer after 200-300 hours of burn-in, but it still could be occasionally bright at times with HD800, APS V3 cabled RS-1 with bowls (better with flats) and Westone ES3X custom IEM. The stock tubes were a little better match with my new Grado HF-2, woodied re-cabled Denon D2000 and APS V3 cabled HD600. Speaking of HD600 - these are usually hard to drive but there was no problem driving the HD600 better than most of my portable USB DAC/Amps that I have reviewed in the past. Only the 3MOVE and Vivid Audio V1 portables could drive the HD600 close to the levels that the EF2 can, with the Pico coming in right behind them. The other portable DAC/amps could sound good with the HD600 at medium volume levels, but they just can't often be pushed without straining as you get close to "being there" volume levels. The HD800 seem a little harder to drive than the HD600, but I could still get more than enough volume with the little EF2. 

 After I changed the stock chinese tubes at 300 hours to the NOS Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that Skylab sold me, the EF2 ceased sounding bright with any headphone once I got about 24 hours on the Raytheon tubes, and improved over an 75-100 hour burn-in on the new tubes. It also sounded more refined, smoother, more musical and more involving. And, the sound signature almost seemed to change according to what headphones I was using. So with the HD800 I would get slightly more bass impact than with my ALO Amphora, yet with my low impedance Ultimate Ears UE11Pro and Denon D2000 the EF2 would actually tame the bass and bring it into line with the rest of the frequency curve. You would normally expect that if the bass is greater with one headphone that it will be greater with them all, but that was not always the case. Also, while it is only a slightly forward sounding amp, it did an excellent job of filling in the slightly recessed mids of my UE11Pro and D2000, making the mids more rich and inviting. It was basically a perfect match for my UE11Pro. Yet, the mids were not too much with my forward sounding Grados, and I absolutely love it with my Grado HF-2 headphones. The drum solo in Patricia Barber "Companion - Nardis" with the HF-2 and EF2 is simply stunning in it's dynamics, impact and extension (as well as timbre and tone).

 In my comparison with the $995 ALO Amphora or $1250 maxed WA6 it was clear the Amphora/Woo had a deeper and wider soundstage, with more micro-detail and an extra degree of transparency and extension, but the EF2 was still very enjoyable even when you know what you are missing. The EF2 is a very musical and euphonic amp to my ears, which makes up for whatever else it lacks. As I said before, it sounds similar to the $399 EF1 (which is often priced at $299 now) - and like with the EF1 I would prefer to listen to the EF2 over the headphone out of my Apogee mini-DAC, or my Nuforce Icon desktop amp with USB DAC. I also enjoyed the EF1 more than the Grahm Slee NOVO, and that should extend over to the EF2 as well. While the mini-DAC headphone out has a wider soundstage and good power, it doesn't sound as dynamic and alive with my HD600 (Apogee line out as a DAC-only is fantastic though) - and with some headphones like D2000 the Apogee can become fatiguing after a while. The EF2 is not quite as detailed, neutral or extended as my Travagans Red with AD743 opamps, but it is more powerful, euphonic and "bigger" sounding. The EF2 has a similar "romantic" sound to it as my Meier Headfive, but still surpasses the Meier as well, especially with Grados at louder volumes where the Headfive begins to sound thin and strained. 

*SUMMARY*: There is just something about the EF2 that, while I know it is not as detailed and spacious as some of my other headphone amps, keeps drawing me back for another listen when I want to use my Macbook as source. Will it replace my Woo WA6, ALO Amphora or balanced Square Wave XL, or even my iBasso D10 or Pico portable amps? No. But it has been getting more attention for the past month than many of my multitude of portable DAC/amps around the house. I traded a more expensive EF1 amp ($400 at the time I received it) for this review sample, and I have NO regrets about the supposed "downgrade" at all. The EF2 is a "big little amp", and even at $300-400 I would recommend it to others - yet at $189 it is a steal and will be a permanent fixture in my home. So, for those looking for an inexpensive DAC/amp, who don't want to worry about whether their headphones will work with it, this is an excellent starting point. Especially since it scales up with better tubes and a better external DAC later.


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## HeatFan12

Great job Larry......Thanks...Very nice little amp with dac to boot.....


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## plonter

great review! i really enjoyed reading it. I already have the EF1 and enjoying it very much, but this review makes me want to g et this one too. boy..head-direct sure makes some really nice products, very low price and worth more than that.

 I just have a question...is there a way to connect a optical or coaxial cable to the EF2 somehow without degrading the signal? I am using a dvd player as transport, and i thought that if one day i would get the EF2 i may want to connect it to it. (although i already got a fine headroom dac i would also like to check the EF2'S built in dac)


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## knugge

Great review. I have a technical question though. I have a Macbook and play my music in itunes. Does itunes automatically send the music out through usb when the dac/amp is connected, or how does it work?


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## fdhfdy

I had once looked for such a usb amp priced at 200$. If it had showed up a bit earlier.......


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## plonter

where those 6J1 tubes can be found..? i searched in 2 tubes dealers sites and didn't find this kind of tubes. by the way..how are those stock chinese tubes headphoneaddict? except their brightness, are they listenable with?


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## DoYouRight

This thing is great. I am trying to get my fiance to give me one for my birthday this month, since I want to get a taste of tubes before I build anything expensive and this sounds great to go along with my laptop


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## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where those 6J1 tubes can be found..? i searched in 2 tubes dealers sites and didn't find this kind of tubes. by the way..how are those stock chinese tubes headphoneaddict? except their brightness, are they listenable with?_

 

These tubes are pretty popular with the little dot amps too. there are a bunch of these tubes talked about in the little dot mk2 and mk3 tube rolling threads


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *knugge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review. I have a technical question though. I have a Macbook and play my music in itunes. Does itunes automatically send the music out through usb when the dac/amp is connected, or how does it work?_

 

I imagine it's the same other USB DACs -- You open up *Audio Midi Setup* (in _Applications -> Utilities_) and select the USB DAC as the output. To make it easier to switch, you can download a menu extra called *SoundSource* that saves you having to open Audio Midi Setup.

 Neat looking little amp by the way, and nice review.


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## AmanGeorge

Although I can't say I'm pleased as an EF1 owner to have something that matches up well for $100 less, it sounds like Head-direct has come up with another winner - good for them! I anticipate brisk sales at this price point


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## oxophone

Great job, HPA - as always. Seems like the ideal solution I was looking for. 

 1. How heavy is the set up - is it portable?
 2. Which DAC will pair best with EF2 - PICO or Ibasso D10 ? 
 3. Would the SQ improve, if fed with a better and clean power supply?

 Please reply; accordingly, I will make a plan to buy these.


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## Qonmus

Thanks for the review. After reading about the EF1 and now this, I'm thinking pretty hard about making this my first amp after that favorable review with respect to the grado line.


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## FullTwisting

Thanks for the great reviews HeadphoneAddict. Your reviews both help and hinder my search at the same time! Just when I think I've narrowed down my choices, you open them back up again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had originally eliminated tube amps from my work rig search (old PC with Grado SR80i), but now I'm rethinking that decision. I was pretty close to going with a Travagans White, but now...


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## myk7000

Haha I've been waiting for this review. Thanks a bunch! 

 AGHH currently I'm in a quite confused state. I've reduced my cans setup to just a pair of hd600s and I could pocket over 300 dollars by selling my d10->gilmore lite setup and just getting the ef2 but I don't know if I should....

 If I travel alot, does this device seem transportable?


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## AmanGeorge

If it's smaller than the EF1, its size almost certainly makes it transportable (probably wouldn't take up much more room in a suitcase than a hardcover book), but only if you have a safe way of transporting tubes.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great review! i really enjoyed reading it. I already have the EF1 and enjoying it very much, but this review makes me want to g et this one too. boy..head-direct sure makes some really nice products, very low price and worth more than that.

 I just have a question...is there a way to connect a optical or coaxial cable to the EF2 somehow without degrading the signal? I am using a dvd player as transport, and i thought that if one day i would get the EF2 i may want to connect it to it. (although i already got a fine headroom dac i would also like to check the EF2'S built in dac)_

 

The only way to connect optical or coax to it would be to get another DAC that accepts optical and coax inputs and feed it into the RCA inputs, something like the Super Pro DAC707 at ALO Audio, or iBasso D10 or Headroom Micro DAC if you are looking for small and not too expensive (just now saw you have a Headroom DAC).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *knugge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review. I have a technical question though. I have a Macbook and play my music in itunes. Does itunes automatically send the music out through usb when the dac/amp is connected, or how does it work?_

 

See Currawong's post quoted a little below this spot.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where those 6J1 tubes can be found..? i searched in 2 tubes dealers sites and didn't find this kind of tubes. by the way..how are those stock chinese tubes headphoneaddict? except their brightness, are they listenable with?_

 

I didn't look for 6J1 tubes since Skylab contacted me after he saw a post I made about needing tubes and offered to sell me a very nice pair of Raytheon 6AK5 equivalent tubes. I understand Little Dot amps use these?

 Anyway, the stock tubes I said in my review were still very nice - so, no worries there.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine it's the same other USB DACs -- You open up *Audio Midi Setup* (in Applications -> Utilities) and select the USB DAC as the output. To make it easier to switch, you can download a menu extra called *SoundSource* that saves you having to open Audio Midi Setup.

 Neat looking little amp by the way, and nice review._

 

Right, and thanks. The SoundSource menu sound switcher is found at Rogue Amoeba | Quality Audio Software for Mac OS X I think.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great job, HPA - as always. Seems like the ideal solution I was looking for. 

 1. How heavy is the set up - is it portable?
 2. Which DAC will pair best with EF2 - PICO or Ibasso D10 ? 
 3. Would the SQ improve, if fed with a better and clean power supply?

 Please reply; accordingly, I will make a plan to buy these._

 

I mentioned in the review that it uses 16V AC adapter, so it can't be used on a battery pack. So, since rectification is done internally I suspect it will be the same as with the DACMagic and not improve with a power supply - maybe with a power conditioner in your power strip?

 It pairs equally as well with D10 and Pico, but the pico sits on the end-table to the left of my armchair with laptop on my right using a 6 foot USB cable, and the D10 connects with a 6" optical cable, so I didn't have interconnects long enough to reach the EF2 from the D10.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *myk7000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha I've been waiting for this review. Thanks a bunch! 

 AGHH currently I'm in a quite confused state. I've reduced my cans setup to just a pair of hd600s and I could pocket over 300 dollars by selling my d10->gilmore lite setup and just getting the ef2 but I don't know if I should....

 If I travel alot, does this device seem transportable?_

 

The D10>Gilmore Lite is still a more resolving system, so I can't say how you would like the downgrade. It is certainly transportable - just attach a foam pad to the top with a rubber band, and stick it in your brief case.


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## Skylab

Larry, excellent review, as usual. It's great that you continue to review affordable gear, since this product will be of great interest to a very large percentage of head-fiers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't look for 6J1 tubes since Skylab contacted me after he saw a post I made about needing tubes and offered to sell me a very nice pair of Raytheon 6AK5 equivalent tubes. I understand Little Dot amps use these?

 Anyway, the stock tubes I said in my review were still very nice - so, no worries there.
_

 

Right - the Chinese 6J1 is equivalent to the western NOS/vintage 6AK5. The 6AK5 is very readily available in lots of very nice varieties - US 6AK5, Western Electric 403A, European EF95 and CV4010, almost all of which can be had very cheaply, and in the amp I use them in (Musical Paradise MP301), sound much much better than the 6J1.


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## plonter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, excellent review, as usual. It's great that you continue to review affordable gear, since this product will be of great interest to a very large percentage of head-fiers.



 Right - the Chinese 6J1 is equivalent to the western NOS/vintage 6AK5. The 6AK5 is very readily available in lots of very nice varieties - US 6AK5, Western Electric 403A, European EF95 and CV4010, almost all of which can be had very cheaply, and in the amp I use them in (Musical Paradise MP301), sound much much better than the 6J1._

 

thanks..now i got it. 6AK5 is a brand i saw, i just didn't know it's another name to 6J1.

 it's too bad that the EF2 has no coaxial/optical inputs also.


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## DoYouRight

This will be my bedroom dac/amp thanks for reassuring me HPA


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## knugge

Thanks for enlightening me Currawong. I have never tried connecting any usb-devices ,that handles audio, to my mac. It seems easy enough.


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## shasty

Great review; is there any way to use the dac separately from the amp?
 Sometimes I switch from headphones to self-powered speakers, in which the amp isn't really needed.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shasty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review; is there any way to use the dac separately from the amp?
 Sometimes I switch from headphones to self-powered speakers, in which the amp isn't really needed._

 

No, you'd have to connect the EF2 headphone out to the self-powered speakers. I'm one of those peeps who keeps an ALO 1/4" to RCA adapter laying around, just for the times when I may need to feed a headphone jack into another amp. Haven't tried it with this one yet.


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## irodori

Thanks for the review HeadphoneAddict.

 I've been looking for a little upgrade for my setup, currently I'm using a stock iBasso D1 with optical output from my Macbook. I was thinking to sell my D1 to get a iBasso D10 or get a better amp and keep my D1 as a DAC, but now this EF2 draws my attention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would it be an upgrade or am I moving sideway if I get EF2 as a DAC/AMP combo or use it to go with D1's DAC? Or am I better off to get a iBasso D10 in terms of SQ?

 Thanks heaps.


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## crossmd

Excellent Write-up! Expect nothing less from Fang, and it appears that we have no reason to be disappointed. Is it worth replacing the EF1 for though, rather than having the money locked up in a marginal difference?


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## Qonmus

A question concerning the DAC : 

 Is this a higher quality DAC than the one found in the 6G ipod classic? 

 More specifically, would it be a better option to run USB -> EF2 -> SR225i or iPod -> LOD -> RCA -> EF2 -> SR225i?


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## Sway

Great review HeadphoneAddict. Looks like I may be purchasing a Pico DAC for my EF1 down the road. I did upgrade the tube to a RCA clear top about a week ago by the way. I will say that the RCA tube was a very nice upgrade from the sylvania one. I am very pleased with the RCA clear top. 
 Pico DAC-only, here we come. 
 Thanks again.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *irodori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the review HeadphoneAddict.

 I've been looking for a little upgrade for my setup, currently I'm using a stock iBasso D1 with optical output from my Macbook. I was thinking to sell my D1 to get a iBasso D10 or get a better amp and keep my D1 as a DAC, but now this EF2 draws my attention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would it be an upgrade or am I moving sideway if I get EF2 as a DAC/AMP combo or use it to go with D1's DAC? Or am I better off to get a iBasso D10 in terms of SQ?

 Thanks heaps._

 

I had my D1 upgraded with AD743 on a 2:1 adapter (but AD797 also worked great) with AD8397 as buffers, and LT6234 in the DAC. I never got around to trying the LTC6241 in the DAC section, but I've heard it is very nice too. I thought the DAC line out was slightly less warm than the Headroom Micro DAC which I liked a little better than the D1. With the upgraded opamps the headphone out sounded warmer and seemed to work better to feed another amp than using the line out.

 Anyway, the D1 amp section with those opamps was very good, but maybe not quite up to the EF2 level in power or romance. The D1 USB DAC was not as good as the EF2 USB DAC, but the D1 optical DAC was better.

 So, you have all the information you need to decide if you should upgrade your D1 opamps, switch to the EF2, or add the EF2 and use the D1 optical DAC - depending on your budget. I suspect you'd like using the D1 optical DAC to feed the EF2 more than using the EF2's built-in USB DAC, but you may be surprised and find yourself selling the D1 after you get the EF2 burned-in with upgraded tubes.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qonmus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question concerning the DAC : 

 Is this a higher quality DAC than the one found in the 6G ipod classic? 

 More specifically, would it be a better option to run USB -> EF2 -> SR225i or iPod -> LOD -> RCA -> EF2 -> SR225i?_

 

I don't have a 6G Classic to compare to. My 5.5G iMod with iMod LOD is better than the EF2 USB DAC (and most other USB DAC except the Pico), and with my iPhone I only use the headphone out. However, I did find the EF2 DAC to sound better than my 4G Nano with nice LOD.


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## irodori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had my D1 upgraded with AD743 on a 2:1 adapter (but AD797 also worked great) with AD8397 as buffers, and LT6234 in the DAC. I never got around to trying the LTC6241 in the DAC section, but I've heard it is very nice too. I thought the DAC line out was slightly less warm than the Headroom Micro DAC which I liked a little better than the D1. With the upgraded opamps the headphone out sounded warmer and seemed to work better to feed another amp than using the line out.

 Anyway, the D1 amp section with those opamps was very good, but maybe not quite up to the EF2 level in power or romance. The D1 USB DAC was not as good as the EF2 USB DAC, but the D1 optical DAC was better.

 So, you have all the information you need to decide if you should upgrade your D1 opamps, switch to the EF2, or add the EF2 and use the D1 optical DAC - depending on your budget. I suspect you'd like using the D1 optical DAC to feed the EF2 more than using the EF2's built-in USB DAC, but you may be surprised and find yourself selling the D1 after you get the EF2 burned-in with upgraded tubes._

 

Thanks for your info, HeadphoneAddict, it's very helpful.

 Now the EF2 looks like the best candidate for my upgrade. Speaking of upgrading tubes for EF2, how difficult is it given I have no experience with tubes or opamp rolling?


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## TheMarchingMule

Thanks a lot for the review! I may just buy this for my upcoming return to the college dorms.


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## gonzalo

great review thanks


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## rhw

t h a n k s
 for the very impressing review.


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## FullTwisting

I've done a little bit of reading on the LittleDot I+ tube rolling thread, and now I'm getting more excited about the possibility of getting my first tube amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A few questions for you HeadphoneAddict, if you have a moment:

 1)
 I'm curious about the Raytheon 6AK5 replacement tubes you used. Are they military grade tubes? I've been looking at tubes on eBay (sold by one of the popular sellers that tests and matches), and I found that the military grade versions cost nearly twice as much. On the EF2, is it worth going for the military grade (or otherwise high-end version such as Sylvania Gold etc)? 

 2)
 I read your review for the Travagans Red/Green/White, and I'm curious if you have an impression of the White DAC performance vs the EF2 DAC since they use the same BurrBrown 2702. Since you no longer have the White, and you can't exactly evaluate the EF2's DAC directly, I know this may be a tough question. But do you have an impression of how these two units compare to each other?

 I was originally thinking of getting the White for a simple office DAC/amp unit. However, now I'm thinking of getting the EF2 and using some of the money I save to buy a pair of upgrade tubes.


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## koven

Thanks for the review, not sure how long it's been since you've used a D2 boa but would you say this is an upgrade from the d2 boa?


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## DoYouRight

Most definately, as most consider the new iphone to better or be exactly like a d2


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## koven

thanks for the response, im very tempted to order this and sell the d2 boa

 im hoping it'd pair well w/ my RE0 since they're both HiFiMan products 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hopefully OP can chime in with his opinion too


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done a little bit of reading on the LittleDot I+ tube rolling thread, and now I'm getting more excited about the possibility of getting my first tube amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few questions for you HeadphoneAddict, if you have a moment:

 1)
 I'm curious about the Raytheon 6AK5 replacement tubes you used. Are they military grade tubes? I've been looking at tubes on eBay (sold by one of the popular sellers that tests and matches), and I found that the military grade versions cost nearly twice as much. On the EF2, is it worth going for the military grade (or otherwise high-end version such as Sylvania Gold etc)? 

 2)
 I read your review for the Travagans Red/Green/White, and I'm curious if you have an impression of the White DAC performance vs the EF2 DAC since they use the same BurrBrown 2702. Since you no longer have the White, and you can't exactly evaluate the EF2's DAC directly, I know this may be a tough question. But do you have an impression of how these two units compare to each other?

 I was originally thinking of getting the White for a simple office DAC/amp unit. However, now I'm thinking of getting the EF2 and using some of the money I save to buy a pair of upgrade tubes._

 

1) I don't recall if the tubes are military designated or not. Can't read them while they are in the amp, and they came two to a single box with no print. I think I paid $25 for the tubes.

 2) I would say that the White's DAC is on par with the EF2 DAC. It is a bigger guess on my part to say that maybe the White with a pair of OPA627 opamps on a 2:1 "over/under" adapter would sound somewhat similar. (about $340 for both amp and opamps after shipping).


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the review, not sure how long it's been since you've used a D2 boa but would you say this is an upgrade from the d2 boa?_

 

Assuming the EF2 is fully burned-in, yes, it is better than the D2 Boa, no question - while the D2 Boa isn't bad it just isn't as enjoyable as the EF2. It's probably on about the sound quality level of the 3MOVE or XM5 with upgraded opamps and BUF634 buffers, but with a bit more power than the XM5 and a little more euphonic sounding than either (with stock or rolled tubes). 

 The D10 and Pico, while having less power for 300 ohm headphones, will be more detailed and spacious - but the Pico is not quite as warm and mellow and romantic sounding as the EF2, especially with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes. I haven't listened to the stock D10 for a long time, but I would say it sits between the D10 and EF2 in warmth when using the Raytheon tubes (maybe closer when using the stock tubes).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) I don't recall if the tubes are military designated or not. ._

 

Yes, the Raytheon tubes Larry got from me are military tubes.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) I don't recall if the tubes are military designated or not. Can't read them while they are in the amp, and they came two to a single box with no print. I think I paid $25 for the tubes.

 2) I would say that the White's DAC is on par with the EF2 DAC. It is a bigger guess on my part to say that maybe the White with a pair of OPA627 opamps on a 2:1 "over/under" adapter would sound somewhat similar. (about $340 for both amp and opamps after shipping)._

 


 Thank you very much for the reply.

 I thought that for the price, your tubes may not have been military, but I see that Skylab just posted that they are. Nice buy!

 Also, I really appreciate your opinion on the White. If I had purchased the White, I would likely have eventually looked into the opamp upgrade you mentioned.

 Right now, it seems like the EF2 is a win all around (for my price range and needs anyway). I'm running out of excuses to order one. My wallet doesn't seem as scared of me as it was a week ago.


----------



## DoYouRight

Seems I must snatch some tubes here


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the Raytheon tubes Larry got from me are military tubes._

 

Thanks for the update Skylab. The military grade NOS/tested/matched tubes I found on eBay are about twice the cost of regular tubes. If you have more for that price, I'd be interested too.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I gave Larry a good deal - those Raytheons tend to go for $40-60/pair.

 But you can get NOS Sylvania military 6AK5's for $5-10 each, and NOS Western Electric military issue for $15 each on eBay easily - just search 6AK5.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I gave Larry a good deal - those Raytheons tend to go for $40-60/pair.

 But you can get NOS Sylvania military 6AK5's for $5-10 each, and NOS Western Electric military issue for $15 each on eBay easily - just search 6AK5._

 

Yeah, I thought that was probably the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a bit nervous about buying the tubes from eBay, so I was looking at one particular seller that seems to have a good reputation here on head-fi. I have no equipment to test them, so I'd rely on the seller to test and match them. That's going to (understandably) bump my cost up.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I gave Larry a good deal - those Raytheons tend to go for $40-60/pair.

 But you can get NOS Sylvania military 6AK5's for $5-10 each, and NOS Western Electric military issue for $15 each on eBay easily - just search 6AK5._

 

Thanks again! You really wanted this amp to get a good review for Fang, eh? Nah, you just wanted me to enjoy it more and were being nice to me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again! You really wanted this amp to get a good review for Fang, eh? Nah, you just wanted me to enjoy it more and were being nice to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Definitely the latter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus, I bought 4 of the Raytheons to get a better price, so I had 2 spares


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Assuming the EF2 is fully burned-in, yes, it is better than the D2 Boa, no question - while the D2 Boa isn't bad it just isn't as enjoyable as the EF2. It's probably on about the sound quality level of the 3MOVE or XM5 with upgraded opamps and BUF634 buffers, but with a bit more power than the XM5 and a little more euphonic sounding than either (with stock or rolled tubes). 

 The D10 and Pico, while having less power for 300 ohm headphones, will be more detailed and spacious - but the Pico is not quite as warm and mellow and romantic sounding as the EF2, especially with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes. I haven't listened to the stock D10 for a long time, but I would say it sits between the D10 and EF2 in warmth when using the Raytheon tubes (maybe closer when using the stock tubes)._

 

thanks a lot for the response, i was considering the d10 and pico but this is enough for me to place the order for the EF2 instead

 i will keep my d2 boa until the ef2 comes for comparison's purposes.. i cant wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 one quick last question:

 if i wanted to upgrade the tubes in the future, how hard is that to do? is it a plug and play type of thing or does it require tools/experience?

 thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Changing tubes is like sticking flowers in a vase. No tools needed.


----------



## koven

Good to hear, thanks again for the review, can't wait to receive mine!


----------



## irodori

Thanks HeadphoneAddict and Skylab for the tube rolling info, that's very helpful for a newbie like me.

 Now I'm happily waiting for my EF2 to arrive!


----------



## FullTwisting

I could resist no longer. Payment has been sent. Awwwwww yeah.

 I'm going to take my time and read more on tubes before I go buy some. I should have plenty of time while burning in and trying out the stock tubes.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could resist no longer. Payment has been sent. Awwwwww yeah.

 I'm going to take my time and read more on tubes before I go buy some. I should have plenty of time while burning in and trying out the stock tubes._

 

i felt the same way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i too am going to start reading up on tubes, this is my first tube amp! albeit a hybrid


 btw, people like skylab, headphoneaddict, etc should be receiving commission lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm sure many people purchase products based on these detailed reviews !


----------



## vkvedam

Great job Larry as always. Nice to see that you've gone to the extent of comparing it with Amphora and others. Sure seems to be another hit from Head-Direct.


----------



## hfjunior

I would like to thank both HeadphoneAddict and Skylab for your great reviews.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thanks, or You're Welcome!


----------



## mrarroyo

I just picked up my EF2 that Fang sent me. I have had a busy weekend but I wanted a quick listen so I hooked it up to my 160 Gb iPod Classic using an ALO Wooden Dock and a pair of Silver Sonics BL-1 interconnects made by Moon Audio. The files in the iPod are all Apple Lossless and the quick listen tells me this is a very nice sounding unit. I will have a lot more to say and will post more in the next week or so. Meanwhile I leave you with the following pictures.
















 Some quick specifications are:

 Imput Impedence: 47k
 Output Impedence: 32-300 Ohm
 Output at 32 Ohm: 3 v, 320 mw
 Output at 150 Ohm: 6.2 v, 256
 Freqency: 20-20khz ＋－0.2db
 S/N: 95db
 DAC Chip: Burr-Brown PCM2702
 Tube: China 6J1 * 2 pcs 
 Input Voltage: 16 v to 18 v; 500 mA
 Power Supply: 110 v or 220 v

 You can read more about it at: Head-Direct.com | YUIN

 At $189 this should be selling like hot cakes!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Cool - looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## shasty

Just wondering, is the dac 24 bit / 96 khz?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shasty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering, is the dac 24 bit / 96 khz?_

 

No, it can only go as high as 16/48, and I leave it at the 16/44.1 default when I plug into my Macbook.


----------



## AmanGeorge

Wow - cool seeing it next to an iPod - that thing is seriously small for a desktop amp with an inbuilt DAC. Impressive - look forward to hearing your thoughts!


----------



## ulyses

Damm, I ordered Little Dot MK2 for my dt880 250ohm. This think looks wery compact compared to it. And has a built-in dac. Did I make a mistake?


----------



## oxophone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it can only go as high as 16/48, and I leave it at the 16/44.1 default when I plug into my Macbook._

 

1. But if fed from another DAC, say Ibasso D10 or Pico Dac only, can EF2 handle high res files like 24/96 or 24/192 [flacs] ? I am seriously considering EF2, hence any info on this topic would be very helpful.

 2. Also, can the owners tell us which headphones mate/pair best with EF2?
 [for genres: Jazz, R&B & Soul, bluegrass, classical, etc, i.e. anything except rock and pop].


----------



## Skylab

If you feed any amp from the analog outputs of a DAC, it can "handle" whatever that DAC outputs


----------



## Aynjell

After looking into the Little Dot MKII++ as somebody reccomended to me, I started looking into this. 

 Does anybody think this is a bad idea for me?

 X-Fi Titanium -> EF2 -> Sony MDR-V6

 it seems right about the price point I'd want, has a DAC, and a tube amp. Seems perfect for my current setup... nice entry stuff. Anybody able to recommend against this?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

you don't really need an amp for the V6 IMO. it does fine straight out of an ipod or similar. but that is not a bad idea, it's definitely worth getting either way. it's a real good laptop or desktop solution, if not you could always use it as a stand alone amp.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you don't really need an amp for the V6 IMO. it does fine straight out of an ipod or similar. but that is not a bad idea, it's definitely worth getting either way. it's a real good laptop or desktop solution, if not you could always use it as a stand alone amp._

 

I already ordered a FiiO E5, as my ipod doesn't power them well enough. 

 This is for my desktop as I want something powerful that has tubes in it. I've heard tube warmth does these cans REALLY good.


----------



## oxophone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you feed any amp from the analog outputs of a DAC, it can "handle" whatever that DAC outputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Off the topic of this thread, but a quick follow up question on Skylab's reply: Does Ibasso D10 or Pico dac offer 24/96 _*analogue output*_? 

 from HPA's post , I gather that D10 can process 24/96 *digital input*, but how about the analogue output?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you feed any amp from the analog outputs of a DAC, it can "handle" whatever that DAC outputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Off the topic of this thread, but a quick follow up question on Skylab's reply: Does Ibasso D10 or Pico dac offer 24/96 *analogue output*? 

 from HPA's post , I gather that D10 can process 24/96 *digital input*, but how about the analogue output?_

 

You are confusing digital with analog - the 24/96 is digital 24 bits / 96 Khz sampling rate, which is a higher resolution recording than say something recorded at 16/44.1 

 But analog is analog, the resolution is whatever you put into it. If you feed the DAC a higher resolution recording it will put out a higher resolution analog signal. Any amp set up for analog input can accept any analog input, regardless of resolution. The D10 analog output is very detailed.


----------



## Aynjell

Two things I'm confused about here, if I use the RCA inputs (via a 3.5mm cable to dual RCA), will I still get the DAC functionality, or is the DAC only available via USB? The way I'm understanding it currently is it can function as a stand alone sound system that you plug in via usb, or I can use feed it from my X-Fi and still maintain all the funcitonality...

 I'm worried I wouldn't.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two things I'm confused about here, if I use the RCA inputs (via a 3.5mm cable to dual RCA), will I still get the DAC functionality, or is the DAC only available via USB? The way I'm understanding it currently is it can function as a stand alone sound system that you plug in via usb, or I can use feed it from my X-Fi and still maintain all the funcitonality...

 I'm worried I wouldn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sometimes I think you guys just don't understand the differences between the DAC and RCA jacks. When you use the RCA input you are feeding it an analog signal, when you use the DAC you are feeding it digital signal. You can't use the DAC on an analog signal. There is a switch on the front of the EF2 to let you chose which of the two inputs (RCA or USB) to listen to. 

 With EF2 switched one way you hear whatever is playing into the RCA inputs (X-fi, or iPod, CD player, or a stand alone DAC which has digital input and analog output). 

 With EF2 switched the other way you are listening to it using the USB DAC, which is to be plugged into a computer (you only need the computer and the EF2 plugged into USB to get sound). On the computer you can direct all digital audio to come out through the USB port > EF2 > headphone jack on EF2 > SOUND!


----------



## Aynjell

Well, I apologize. I really don't understand the concent of a DAC, but you have explained it well. I was confusing DAC with a Pre-AMP, for whatever reason in my mind, so it's strictly dual function in my case. I guess I'll have to look around a bit more and try and fight another more cost effective tube based amplifier.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I apologize. I really don't understand the concent of a DAC, but you have explained it well. I was confusing DAC with a Pre-AMP, for whatever reason in my mind, so it's strictly dual function in my case. I guess I'll have to look around a bit more and try and fight another more cost effective tube based amplifier._

 

What is it that you need this to do that you think it doesn't do? Do you need a pre-amp? Are you trying to drive speakers? Do you need the DAC?

 With this you can plug in just about anything that makes sound (TV, CD, DVD, iPod, computer line out or headphone out, or plug ii into a PC USB port) - and then listen to it with the built-in headphone amp. You might even be able to use the 1/4" headphone jack to drive a bigger amp if you get the right cables or adapters (I even own an ALO Audio 1/4" to RCA cable).


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is it that you need this to do that you think it doesn't do? Do you need a pre-amp? Are you trying to drive speakers? Do you need the DAC?

 With this you can plug in just about anything that makes sound (TV, CD, DVD, iPod, computer line out or headphone out, or plug ii into a PC USB port) - and then listen to it with the built-in headphone amp. You might even be able to use the 1/4" headphone jack to drive a bigger amp if you get the right cables or adapters (I even own an ALO Audio 1/4" to RCA cable)._

 

Sorry my misunderstanding. I know it doesn't meet my desires.


----------



## mrarroyo

Last night I spent a good couple of hours using the iPod via a dock out into the HF2 and for cans I was using a MarkL Modded Denon D2000 w/ Bubinga Wood Cups and a re-cable by Brian of Zynsonic. I was very pleased with the sound and could not believe how musical and engaging the unit is.

 Next (today) I used a Philips DVD player as a source and an Ultrasone HFI-780 re-cabled by Alex of APureSound and w/ a pair of Beyer Velour pads. I am very happy to report the EF2 scaled up very well, most noticeable is the extended highs and clearer more detailed presentation. Most importantly the unit retained its musicality and engaging presentation. No it is not a hyper detailed amp but who cares when it has such an appealing sound, frankly I am surprised at how good it sounds. Specially so at the MSRP of $189.

 I will continue burning in the unit and hope to use the DAC via the USB input. I will also start looking for new NOS tubes to roll and listen for changes. More to come.


----------



## DoYouRight

DAC = Soundcard but external and typically ALOT better quality, that should help your confusion.


----------



## oxophone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are confusing digital with analog_

 

Apologies for my ignorance
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, and THANK YOU for the explanation. 

 Choosing/finding good albums was already difficult, now add the task of finding the perfect combination of sound repro equips
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Paucity of funds, perhaps, curtails the ability to experiment with various equips. Head-fi and guys like you that way cover the deficiency. Please bear with us.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last night I spent a good couple of hours using the iPod via a dock out into the HF2 and for cans I was using a MarkL Modded Denon D2000 w/ Bubinga Wood Cups and a re-cable by Brian of Zynsonic. I was very pleased with the sound and could not believe how musical and engaging the unit is.

 Next (today) I used a Philips DVD player as a source and an Ultrasone HFI-780 re-cabled by Alex of APureSound and w/ a pair of Beyer Velour pads. I am very happy to report the EF2 scaled up very well, most noticeable is the extended highs and clearer more detailed presentation. Most importantly the unit retained its musicality and engaging presentation. No it is not a hyper detailed amp but who cares when it has such an appealing sound, frankly I am surprised at how good it sounds. Specially so at the MSRP of $189.

 I will continue burning in the unit and hope to use the DAC via the USB input. I will also start looking for new NOS tubes to roll and listen for changes. More to come._

 

Great, I'm glad you are liking it as much as I am!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apologies for my ignorance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and THANK YOU for the explanation. 

 Choosing/finding good albums was already difficult, now add the task of finding the perfect combination of sound repro equips
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Paucity of funds, perhaps, curtails the ability to experiment with various equips. Head-fi and guys like you that way cover the deficiency. Please bear with us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do bear with you - that's why I spent the time to try to explain anything I could to help. Cheers!


----------



## mrarroyo

I sure hope others get to listen to this amp, for $189 w/ a DAC for those ocassions you need one it is a heck of a price. I will be testing the DAC soon.


----------



## donunus

I wonder if anyone has compared this amp with the little dot mk2. They use the same tubes so they could be comparable? ld mk2 can use ef95 or ef92 family tubes. I have the ld mk2 and I think that its more engaging than some of my past amps including the gilmore lite and audio gd c2c.


----------



## FullTwisting

Mine arrived yesterday. It took exactly 4.5 days to get here from the time I received confirmation of my order. Rather amazing considering it came from the other side of the planet!

 The EF2 has definitely improved the sound of my Grado SR80i headphones on my crummy old work PC. I had been using the PC headphone out and the sound was somewhat lacking across the board. I knew the SR80is could do better, having auditioned them before buying. I was able to improve the stock PC sound a bit using the Winamp EQ, but I just couldn't really get it dialed in. Now with the EF2 assuming both DAC and amp duties, everything has opened up. I turned off the EQ and have a much more natural sound now.

 I'm not an experienced audiophile, just a music enthusiast, so I can't really provide pros/cons of this amp in the same way that the OP has (rock on HPA), but I will say that I do enjoy this amp. Here are a few points I thought about while listening with about 10 hours on the amp:
Bass has improved. It is a natural improvement, it doesn't over power. On a few tracks, the bass seemed a bit loose. Other tracks were tight, so it could possibly be the encoding (these were MP3 tracks).
It is not a super detailed setup like I tried at the audio store, but it does have a very nice sound. The audio store demo equipment spoiled me.
It sounds correct at low volumes. I did not notice any volume balance issues at low volume.
I can listen at a lower volume than before and retain the sound quality. I had to turn up the PC volume before to get at the whole sound.

 Non-sound thoughts:
Smaller than I expected, which is good for my desk.
It's a nicer looking amp than the pictures led me to believe. It was expecting it to look a bit cheapo.
I really like the volume control knob. The detents are very fine and feel great. They do not lock you into too-loud or too-quiet.
The DAC led is quite a bit brighter than the tubes. I was expecting more glow from the tubes (this is my first tube amp).
Power switch seems to control the amp only. The DAC led stays on. I assume the DAC is totally powered by the USB.

 Since the DAC seems to be powered on all the time if connected, I'm curious if I should disconnect the USB when I leave work. I usually leave the PC turned on. Any thoughts on that?

 I'm looking forward to hearing this amp mature as it burns it. I don't know really what to expect. For now I'm resisting the urge to try new tubes until I have many more hours on it. I've seen a few on eBay that I'd like to try, but I'm still reading up on what to look for in a tube.

 I'm also looking forward to hearing what other people think with alternative tubes. Perhaps someone with knowledge (and lots of tubes) can start an EF2 tube rolling thread.


----------



## donunus

Since they use the same tubes as the little dot amps, I suspect the effects on the tubes to the little dots would also apply here. There are a bunch of LD tube rolling threads, you may want to start here...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...43/index3.html
 check out the links on post 39 of this link


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if anyone has compared this amp with the little dot mk2. They use the same tubes so they could be comparable? ld mk2 can use ef95 or ef92 family tubes. I have the ld mk2 and I think that its more engaging than some of my past amps including the gilmore lite and audio gd c2c._

 

Not likely since I was the only one with one between the end of CanJam and yesterday...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine arrived yesterday... snip

 ...Since the DAC seems to be powered on all the time if connected, I'm curious if I should disconnect the USB when I leave work. I usually leave the PC turned on. Any thoughts on that?

 I'm looking forward to hearing this amp mature as it burns it. I don't know really what to expect. For now I'm resisting the urge to try new tubes until I have many more hours on it. I've seen a few on eBay that I'd like to try, but I'm still reading up on what to look for in a tube.

 I'm also looking forward to hearing what other people think with alternative tubes. Perhaps someone with knowledge (and lots of tubes) can start an EF2 tube rolling thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would unplug it from USB when not using it for long periods of time, or on vacation, but I suspect it wont hurt it to stay plugged in (unless you worry about thunderstorms). I only plug it into USB when I am using the DAC, so I can plug other gear into my USB the remainder of the time.

 I mentioned in my review that with burn-in it became a little less bright, more refined, and the bass filled in more.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not likely since I was the only one with one between the end of CanJam and yesterday... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do not know about that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I received mine last weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I am a stinker.


----------



## hfjunior

Larry,

 I just got my EF2 last Monday. For the burn-in process, do I have to do anything special ?. I am currently listening to it everyday for about 3 hours with volume at 10 o'clock position.

 Connecting it with the HD595 + PC + Win Amp + ASIO4ALL, I am happy with the "out off the box" sound quality.

 Thank in advance.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hfjunior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry,

 I just got my EF2 last Monday. For the burn-in process, do I have to do anything special ?. I am currently listening to it everyday for about 3 hours with volume at 10 o'clock position.

 Connecting it with the HD595 + PC + Win Amp + ASIO4ALL, I am happy with the "out off the box" sound quality.

 Thank in advance._

 

Just play music through it about 16 hours a day for 2 weeks - give it a rest while you are away at work so that you are always home when the amp is running (one of my old rules about tube amps that my OCD wont let me discard, something about tubes going poof!).


----------



## mrarroyo

So where do I start? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The EF2 in my possession has about 135 hours of burn in, 108 hours for the amp section via the RCA input and an additional 27 hours for the USB DAC section and the Amp Section via the USB input.

 The amp section has continued to improve and IMO makes for a very engaging and mellow amp. I particularly like its unpretentious method of presenting the music. It sounds far better than its $189 price tag would lead you to believe. In fact it is so nice sounding I have searched and found a set of Sylvania NOS 6AK5/5654 tubes. I hope they help to squeeze more out of this unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now for the USB DAC which I decided to first try w/ my office PC. I plugged it and although it showed right away I could not get any sound out of it. After a while of cursing and getting frustrated I realized I had made a mistake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had the volume out of Windows Media Player at ZERO. Yeah, what a fool! Anyways after adjusting the volume I put a Blood Sweat and Tears CD and ... ^#%^$#^# ^#@%(* What! It sounded horrible to the point I was going to stop using the USB DAC and just write about the Amp Section, but I persevered. This was a good thing because after a short 2 hours the DAC Section was at least listen-able and acceptable by the 6 hour mark. At this point I turned it off and took it home with me to use w/ my home PC.

 After the embarrassing display at the office I was able to quickly connect and start using the unit with my home PC. Who says you can't teach an old dog a new trick? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the USB DAC section has about 27 hours of burn in and it has had a major change from the first time I fired her up. Now it is in the category of second system (den, office, nightstand, etc) and I hope it continuous to improve. I hope to have an update at the 50 hour and 100 hour marks.

 BTW, please do not misread my post. Although this is a heck of a nice sounding unit it is not going to be better that an unit costing many times its price. Of course the final word will be after it is fully burnt in and when I have tried the NOS tubes I have ordered.

 I do have three inexpensive suggestions to make. These are:

 1. Drill holes on the bottom plate to improve ventilation.
 2. Place o-rings under the plastic top plate by the screws to improve ventilation by creating a 1/8" or similar air gap.
 3. Replace the hard plastic feet w/ rubber type. This will help reduce/eliminate the tendency of the EF2 to slide on hard surfaces (like a desk).

 More to come.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So where do I start? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The EF2 in my possession has about 135 hours of burn in, 108 hours for the amp section via the RCA input and an additional 27 hours for the USB DAC section and the Amp Section via the USB input.

 The amp section has continued to improve and IMO makes for a very engaging and mellow amp. I particularly like its unpretentious method of presenting the music. It sounds far better than its $189 price tag would lead you to believe. In fact it is so nice sounding I have searched and found a set of Sylvania NOS 6AK5/5654 tubes. I hope they help to squeeze more out of this unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now for the USB DAC which I decided to first try w/ my office PC. I plugged it and although it showed right away I could not get any sound out of it. After a while of cursing and getting frustrated I realized I had made a mistake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had the volume out of Windows Media Player at ZERO. Yeah, what a fool! Anyways after adjusting the volume I put a Blood Sweat and Tears CD and ... ^#%^$#^# ^#@%(* What! It sounded horrible to the point I was going to stop using the USB DAC and just write about the Amp Section, but I persevered. This was a good thing because after a short 2 hours the DAC Section was at least listen-able and acceptable by the 6 hour mark. At this point I turned it off and took it home with me to use w/ my home PC.

 After the embarrassing display at the office I was able to quickly connect and start using the unit with my home PC. Who says you can't teach an old dog a new trick? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the USB DAC section has about 27 hours of burn in and it has had a major change from the first time I fired her up. Now it is in the category of second system (den, office, nightstand, etc) and I hope it continuous to improve. I hope to have an update at the 50 hour and 100 hour marks.

 BTW, please do not misread my post. Although this is a heck of a nice sounding unit it is not going to be better that an unit costing many times its price. Of course the final word will be after it is fully burnt in and when I have tried the NOS tubes I have ordered.

 I do have three inexpensive suggestions to make. These are:

 1. Drill holes on the bottom plate to improve ventilation.
 2. Place o-rings under the plastic top plate by the screws to improve ventilation by creating a 1/8" or similar air gap.
 3. Replace the hard plastic feet w/ rubber type. This will help reduce/eliminate the tendency of the EF2 to slide on hard surfaces (like a desk).

 More to come._

 

Nice report - I guess I didn't do as good of a job explaining you have to burn-in the DAC and the amp both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for ventilation - I am not experiencing extreme heat output and wasn't sure I needed to make any changes in that area, probably wont.


----------



## Kawai_man

Does anyone how it compares soundwise to the aune mini usb dac, I know EF2 is 50$ more, Im considering getting one of these , or is it not fair to compare a tube amp to a SS one? thanks



AUNE Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amplifier MK2 - eBay (item 260435237330 end time Jul-24-09 18:26:26 PDT)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kawai_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone how it compares soundwise to the aune mini usb dac, I know EF2 is 50$ more, Im considering getting one of these , or is it not fair to compare a tube amp to a SS one? thanks



AUNE Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amplifier MK2 - eBay (item 260435237330 end time Jul-24-09 18:26:26 PDT)_

 

Up until now I had not heard of the AUNE. Even the AUNE seller recommends the ZERO OPA627 modded DAC for non-transportable use when he was asked on eBay.


----------



## mrarroyo

Larry, the EF2 has four A940 (http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/KS/KSA940.pdf) inmediately adjacent to caps. It is the heat generated by these and the two tubes I am speaking off.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, the EF2 has four A940 (http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/KS/KSA940.pdf) inmediately adjacent to caps. It is the heat generated by these and the two tubes I am speaking off._

 

Okay, because the casing of the EF2 in no way gets hot.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for ventilation - I am not experiencing extreme heat output and wasn't sure I needed to make any changes in that area, probably wont._

 

I have not found it to be hot either. I've run it for 6 hours straight (at low-ish volume) and it was just warm to the touch. Would volume level, or perhaps the headphones used cause the amp to produce more heat?

 I did a little A-Bing yesterday with the stock headphone out on the PC, then USB through the EF2 and I'm still a very happy camper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One thing I've noticed though, at the very lowest volume level (just before 0), the right channel drops out. I don't normally use that volume level, so I'm only slightly disappointed in that.


----------



## mrarroyo

Guys just because the outside of the casework does not get hot it does not mean that the internal components are cool. If you notice the manufacturer chose to spec caps rated at 105C which is a good thing to prolong their life due to the heat generated by some of the internal active components. So if you can further enhance the cooling you can prolong the life of the caps and other components.

 Enough of the heat, or no heat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The USB DAC and amp section have an additional +/-24 hours of burn in and I have to say that I am very pleased with this unit. The sound/performance you get for $189 is short of fantastic and whomever gets it should have a great bang for the buck.

 I have been listening today to Renee Olstead and Madeleine Peyroux, both sound engaging and their voices have a nice warm presentation. I should also mention that although the volume pot is not an stepped attenuator it has notches. These feature is nicely implemented in that the "steps" are very close and you do not wish for in-between steps as is usually the case with true stepped attenuators.

 Currently waiting for the NOS tubes while I continue to burn in the USB DAC which currently has about 50 hours of burn in while the Amp Section has about 150 hours of burn in.


----------



## tswise

After much deliberation, I'm taking the plunge on this plus a pair of Sylvania 6AK5's for my AKG K701s

 (and a Pelican 1150 case to haul around the amp between offices and LAN parties, of course)


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[*]I really like the volume control knob. The *detents* are very fine and feel great. They do not lock you into too-loud or too-quiet._

 

I think that'd annoy me too much. I'd like my knob to be completely free. Things like that can be a deal breaker for me sometimes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that'd annoy me too much. I'd like my knob to be completely free. Things like that can be a deal breaker for me sometimes._

 

That's too bad.


----------



## mrarroyo

For the last few days I have been using the EF2 as an USB DAC/Amp. The USB DAC section has 100 hours of burn in and the Amp Section has 200 hours. I am really getting to know this little unpretentious unit and I can say the sound is very engaging and smooth. It will not win a detail contest but what it lacks in hyper detail it makes up in the organic way it presents the music. Look forward trying the NOS tubes I ordered. Did I mention it is very smooth!


----------



## yukihiro

Hmm... I just started looking for a USB DAC and a hybrid amp for my Grado SR325i's, but this combo seems tempting. I saw it at CanJam but didn't get to listen to it. If only I had known that I would be thinking about buying it in the near future...

 For those few of you who have listened to the EF2, do you think it would pair up well with my 325i's? The only other DAC I've owned was the D10 (which I sold). I liked how the 325i's sounded with the D10 DAC/amp but couldn't justify the price, so I sold it. I also eventually wanted to try a hybrid amp.

 I know HeadphoneAddict said that the EF2's DAC didn't sound as good as the D10, but as long as it doesn't sound bad I'll be fine with it. I just need something better than my internal sound card. I guess the more important thing here is the amp since I wanted to try a hybrid amp with my Grados.

 I'm really liking the price. I just hope it's not too bright to pair with my 325i's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... I just started looking for a USB DAC and a hybrid amp for my Grado SR325i's, but this combo seems tempting. I saw it at CanJam but didn't get to listen to it. If only I had known that I would be thinking about buying it in the near future...

 For those few of you who have listened to the EF2, do you think it would pair up well with my 325i's? The only other DAC I've owned was the D10 (which I sold). I liked how the 325i's sounded with the D10 DAC/amp but couldn't justify the price, so I sold it. I also eventually wanted to try a hybrid amp.

 I know HeadphoneAddict said that the EF2's DAC didn't sound as good as the D10, but as long as it doesn't sound bad I'll be fine with it. I just need something better than my internal sound card. I guess the more important thing here is the amp since I wanted to try a hybrid amp with my Grados.

 I'm really liking the price. I just hope it's not too bright to pair with my 325i's._

 

This is a good amp for Grados and the SR-325i should get along well once the amp is burned in to get rid that initial brightness (esp with the stock chinese tubes). Once burned-in even the stock tubes sound nice, and some upgraded tubes later for $40 will take it another step higher. With the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes the EF2 now tames the treble on my RS-1 with bowls, and also takes the zing out the the Westone 3 with silicone tips.


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a good amp for Grados and the SR-325i should get along well once the amp is burned in to get rid that initial brightness (esp with the stock chinese tubes). Once burned-in even the stock tubes sound nice, and some upgraded tubes later for $40 will take it another step higher. With the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes the EF2 now tames the treble on my RS-1 with bowls, and also takes the zing out the the Westone 3 with silicone tips._

 

Thanks for the reply. You're opinions are always very helpful. I found that a lot of your opinions in the D10 thread prior to me listening to it was pretty accurate. 

 The EF2 is now topping my list as my birthday present to myself.


----------



## mrarroyo

I concur w/ Larry, my RS-1's sound very good out of the EF2. Still waiting for the Sylvania NOS tubes.


----------



## JGP

Has anyone tried this amp with k701? Any opinions?


----------



## sad_katz

Anyone tried the amp with an AD900? I thought I'd want to get more kick out of the AD900's bass. Any suggestion for tube rolling for lower frequencies?


----------



## mrarroyo

Today I received the NOS Sylvania 6AK5/5654 made in October of 1953. Straight out of the box I can say that the individual improvements are minor and many of us would have a hard time describing the differences. However the sum of the parts does make for an audible difference. IMO the overall presentation is clearer and more detailed while retaining the smoothness I liked so much. No, it has not turned into a hyper detailed unit. I will wait and report in 24 hours.


----------



## mrarroyo

Here are pics of the tubes I received.


----------



## mplee79

Hello. Read your wonderful review about the EF2 and am itching to purchase one. I had a few questions prior to hitting the order button:

 1. Does the unit come with all cables like power adapter, USB line for my laptop

 2. Any idea if the internal DAC will sound better than my iphone 3g line out?

 3. Is the amp powerful enough to hook up to a set of high efficiency bookshelf speakers?

 thanks


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
[*]I really like the volume control knob. The detents are very fine and feel great. They do not lock you into too-loud or too-quiet.

 

I think that'd annoy me too much. I'd like my knob to be completely free. Things like that can be a deal breaker for me sometimes._

 

I know exactly where you are coming from. I was initially looking at a Travagans White, and it has a detent at each level (1-10). I've never used that amp, but my thought was that it likely would have drove me nuts.

 However, there are a whole bunch of detents on the EF2 volume. That is what I meant to say when I said they were "very fine". The difference in volume between detents is just barely perceptible. You can put the knob between detents, it won't "suck" the knob to the next one. However, I have not yet had the need or urge to do so.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are pics of the tubes I received.
 <images snipped>_

 

Hey, neat! I just received those exact same tubes. I'm still breaking in the stock setup, but I couldn't resist the urge to pick up some vintage tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also picked up some black plate GE JAN 5654W tubes from 1985.

 It will be interesting to see if my novice ears can tell the difference between these 3 tube types.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mplee79* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello. Read your wonderful review about the EF2 and am itching to purchase one. I had a few questions prior to hitting the order button:

 1. Does the unit come with all cables like power adapter, USB line for my laptop

 2. Any idea if the internal DAC will sound better than my iphone 3g line out?

 3. Is the amp powerful enough to hook up to a set of high efficiency bookshelf speakers?

 thanks_

 


 I can only answer one question with authority: The unit does come with a power adapter and USB cord.

 The EF2 system sounds much better than my PC headphone out. This may not be saying much though, as the PC in question is rather old and is a low end model to boot. Sorry I can't comment on the EF2 vs. the iPhone out.


----------



## mplee79

Has anyone compared this unit to the Zero 24 bit/192khz dac/amp combo with USB? I know we're comparing apples and oranges with the zero being a solid state amp but many reviewers have stated that with the proper opamp choices, there is an inherent tube like sound to the unit. 

 It seems to me that the Zero is more versatile because it has a digital line in as well as rca output and can be used as a preamp if wanting to expand later to a full blown home theater or 2.1 channel listening station. 

 But like everyone else here, sound quality comes first


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mplee79* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello. Read your wonderful review about the EF2 and am itching to purchase one. I had a few questions prior to hitting the order button:

 1. Does the unit come with all cables like power adapter, USB line for my laptop

 2. Any idea if the internal DAC will sound better than my iphone 3g line out?

 3. Is the amp powerful enough to hook up to a set of high efficiency bookshelf speakers?

 thanks_

 

Yes the unit comes with a wall wart power supply and USB cable. I have not opened up the EF2 to find out the type of dac chip so I can not answer your second question, howerver I can tell you that the iPhone can not be connected via USB to any dac. I would not use a headphone amp to drive speakers unless it was specifically designed for it. Something the EF2 does not seem to be designed for.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know exactly where you are coming from. I was initially looking at a Travagans White, and it has a detent at each level (1-10). I've never used that amp, but my thought was that it likely would have drove me nuts.

 However, there are a whole bunch of detents on the EF2 volume. That is what I meant to say when I said they were "very fine". The difference in volume between detents is just barely perceptible. You can put the knob between detents, it won't "suck" the knob to the next one. However, I have not yet had the need or urge to do so._

 

I agree there are plenty of indents and the volume difference between them is quite small so as not to be intrusive (IMO). 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, neat! I just received those exact same tubes. I'm still breaking in the stock setup, but I couldn't resist the urge to pick up some vintage tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also picked up some black plate GE JAN 5654W tubes from 1985.

 It will be interesting to see if my novice ears can tell the difference between these 3 tube types._

 

Enjoy the experience and please post your results.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not opened up the EF2 to find out the type of dac chip so I can not answer your second question..._

 

I mentioned in my review that it uses a Burr Brown Japan PCM2702E DAC, like the 3MOVE and XM5. I have not directly compared the USB DAC feeding the amp vs the iPhone 3G line out feeding the amp, but I suspect it will be close.


----------



## koven

Is it a good idea to hook these up to active/powered speakers? I have a 2.0 setup which I was thinking of using w/ the USB DAC. Will it be any improvement to the SQ if the speakers are self-powered/bi-amped?


 Also, do you think Sennheiser or Denon would have better synergy w/ the EF2? I'm in the process of deciding between the HD580 and D2000.. 

 thanks!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it a good idea to hook these up to active/powered speakers? I have a 2.0 setup which I was thinking of using w/ the USB DAC. Will it be any improvement to the SQ if the speakers are self-powered/bi-amped?


 Also, do you think Sennheiser or Denon would have better synergy w/ the EF2? I'm in the process of deciding between the HD580 and D2000.. 

 thanks!_

 

You could feed the headphone out to the active speakers, to be able to use the DAC instead of the computer's line out. I don't think it would sound bad.

 I reported that the EF2 works well with most headphones, and would not be able to predict which you would like more.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know exactly where you are coming from. I was initially looking at a Travagans White, and it has a detent at each level (1-10). I've never used that amp, but my thought was that it likely would have drove me nuts.

 However, there are a whole bunch of detents on the EF2 volume. That is what I meant to say when I said they were "very fine". The difference in volume between detents is just barely perceptible. You can put the knob between detents, it won't "suck" the knob to the next one. However, I have not yet had the need or urge to do so._

 

I suppose that doesn't sound so bad, I don't want to get stuck nitpicking.

 I keep reading how well the EF1 performs with low impedance cans. So I guess my question now is:

*How does the EF2 compare to the EF1?*

 Should I just save up for an EF1 instead of buying an EF2? I don't really need the DAC either, so that's far from my deciding factor.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*How does the EF2 compare to the EF1?*

 Should I just save up for an EF1 instead of buying an EF2? I don't really need the DAC either, so that's far from my deciding factor._

 

I have not heard the EF2, but in general, if you don't need the DAC, I can't see how buying a $200 amp/DAC combo would make sense in that case, versus a $300 dedicated headphone amp. There simply have to be SOME compromises there. 

 And again, haven't heard the EF2, but in general I think there are better sounding 12AU7 tubes than 6AK5's. Food for thought.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose that doesn't sound so bad, I don't want to get stuck nitpicking.

 I keep reading how well the EF1 performs with low impedance cans. So I guess my question now is:

*How does the EF2 compare to the EF1?*

 Should I just save up for an EF1 instead of buying an EF2? I don't really need the DAC either, so that's far from my deciding factor._

 

The two amps sound very similar. 

 The big advantage of the EF2 is the DAC and the very precise low volume channel balance for using it with IEM. 

 The big advantage of the EF1 is the higher power output and current available for hard-to-drive cans - the EF1 was able to drive a 4-8 ohm orthodynamic headphone like the RE5 at CanJam nicely and the EF2 can't, nor can the EF2 drive a K1000 to a moderate volume level.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could feed the headphone out to the active speakers, to be able to use the DAC instead of the computer's line out. I don't think it would sound bad.

 I reported that the EF2 works well with most headphones, and would not be able to predict which you would like more._

 

Thanks, I purchased a stock HD580 off a fellow head-fi'er... I will report how they sound with the EF2.


----------



## Rock n Rolla

hello I am new to all this stuff and I am trying to setup a system to buy

 so far people have told me to do this

 -senns hd600 headphones
 -iBasso d10 cobra as the usb amp
 - the ef2 as the tube amp

 and connect the ibasso to the ef2...

 or should i just buy the hybrid?

 Is this good for a stationary setup? it will be staying on my desk connected to my computer.
 or should I look for a differnt amp/dac?


 Also can I hook up external speakers to all this in the future? because it is a lot of money to just spend on a headphone setup...I would feel better if I knew i could setup a stereo system with it..


----------



## koven

it'll work as both a dac and amp.. if you want to use the d10 as a DAC and the ef2 as an amp, that sounds like it'd work great

 it's a great budget desktop setup and yes u can hook up active/powered speakers but i'm not so sure about bookshelf speakers, probably not enough power.


----------



## koven

oops, double post


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The D10 DAC is more detailed and spacious and will improve the sound of the EF2 when you are able to pair the two.


----------



## koven

I may be getting ahead of myself, but I have another question in regards to my upgrade path after the EF2..

 I will be using the DAC as a source maybe 80% of the time, and the Fuze w/ Line Out as a source maybe 20% of the time.

 If I wanted to improve my setup in the future... which option would be the most beneficial? 

 a. add a dedicated DAC and use the EF2 as an amp
 b. use the EF2 as a DAC/preamp and add a dedicated amp
 c. upgrade the tubes 
 d. a & c, or a & b

 Thank you


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

A and C


----------



## koven

Gotcha, thanks again.


----------



## mrarroyo

The EF2 can not be used as pre-amp or an stand alone DAC. If you are going to spend $600 for an iBasso D10 plus an EF1 I would suggest you buy an used Oritek DAC V4.0 or higher w/ the built in headphone amp. This combo sells for about $500 and IMO is a better sounding option.


----------



## welchie

I've got a pair of NOS/NIB SYLVANIA 6AK5 tubes on the way as my tube upgrade. I couldn't find the Raytheons. Will the Sylvanias be OK? Thanks, Chris.


----------



## koven

I just also purchased a pair of NOS 6AK5 tubes off ebay for about $14.xx shipped

 Should I change them out immediately or do you think I should give the stock tubes a try?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just also purchased a pair of NOS 6AK5 tubes off ebay for about $14.xx shipped

 Should I change them out immediately or do you think I should give the stock tubes a try?_

 

Give the stock tubes a try and burn-it in with the stock ones.


----------



## Ricey20

Nice review Larry.

 I'm looking for a nice desktop amp to use with my IEMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Do you get any hum with the ES3X with the EF1/EF2? Which one would be better suited for IEM usage?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review Larry.

 I'm looking for a nice desktop amp to use with my IEMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you get any hum with the ES3X with the EF1/EF2? Which one would be better suited for IEM usage?_

 

I was very clear in my review about what I heard - if I didn't mention hum I didn't hear any, and I used IEM and full size phones with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also said that the EF1 volume control was unsuitable for IEM while the EF2 volume control works well with them.


----------



## koven

*Your item cleared United States Customs at 10:26 AM on July 31, 2009*

 I guess I'll be getting them on Monday! (Hopefully)


----------



## Smoke

Hello EF2 users,

 I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 25-1 II and the Sennheiser HD 595 in combination with the Ibasso D2. When I'm using the DAC in combination with the HD 595 I'm not really getting a lot of bass. Will the EF2 give a better representation of the lower frequencies on my HD 595 in comparison to the D2? Proper amplification could solve this problem doesn't it?

 Thanks


----------



## ZoNtO

Not sure if I missed it, but could somebody either PM me a link or post it here of where you are ordering the replacement tubes. I've tried Google and such but only come up with stuff from Singapore it seems like. (PM preferred if it's possible)

 Thanks!


----------



## boomy3555

After hearing Headphone Addict's EF-2 at a recent meet, I had to order one so Fang should send it off soon. Recieved my EMS tracking already.

www.thetubestore.com has an equivalent and there are several on eBay. Google 6J1. or 5654


----------



## mrarroyo

Larry I have sent the unit I had on a round about! Four members here will have it for review/impressions. These are:

 - raffy
 - dw6928
 - immtbiker
 - Skylab (maybe, if time allows)

 Should be fun to read the impressions of four additional members.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After hearing Headphone Addict's EF-2 at a recent meet, I ahd to order one so Fang should send it off soon.

www.thetubestore.com has an equivalent and there are several on eBay. Google 6J1. or 5654_

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry I have sent the unit I had on a round about! Four members here will have it for review/impressions. These are:

 - raffy
 - dw6928
 - immtbiker
 - Skylab (maybe, if time allows)

 Should be fun to read the impressions of four additional members._

 

That would be cool.


----------



## sno

Does this amplifier work with Linux?


----------



## koven

I'm in the process of researching a DAC <$400 to pair with the EF2.

 Not sure if you've heard these but it looks like the V-DAC, Oritek V4, and DAC Magic are excellent choices for full size DAC's in that price range.

 Am I wrong to assume these three sound noticeably better than the D10/Pico because they're full-sized? 

 What would you recommend? Not sure if this is important but I prefer a warm sound.


----------



## DaveHao

You might be better off with a neutral sounding DAC with the EF2, my experience with tube amps you don't want the DAC colouring the sound that much. LOL btw this is my first post, so you can take it with a grain of salt haha.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm in the process of researching a DAC <$400 to pair with the EF2.

 Not sure if you've heard these but it looks like the V-DAC, Oritek V4, and DAC Magic are excellent choices for full size DAC's in that price range.

 Am I wrong to assume these three sound noticeably better than the D10/Pico because they're full-sized? 

 What would you recommend? Not sure if this is important but I prefer a warm sound._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaveHao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might be better off with a neutral sounding DAC with the EF2, my experience with tube amps you don't want the DAC colouring the sound that much. LOL btw this is my first post, so you can take it with a grain of salt haha._

 

I think you would be surprised by the D10 (via optical) or Pico DAC (via USB), despite their size. I have compared them to many desktop DACs and I think they hold up quite well. And, I would say their DACs are very neutral without coloring the sound. The D10 via USB is not quite as good as the Pico's USB DAC, but both are still a noticeable upgrade over the EF2 DAC in terms of micro-detail, spaciousness and soundstage - the D10 or Pico DAC feeding the EF2 amp is a very nice combo, with more power for full size phones like HD600/800 than most portable amps can offer with their built-in amps.


----------



## koven

Very interested in buying a Pico after everything I've read. Just curious though, paired with the EF2, what differences would I hear with a Pico vs a D10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interested in buying a Pico after everything I've read. Just curious though, paired with the EF2, what differences would I hear with a Pico vs a D10?_

 

Not a big difference if the D10 is used via optical input, while the D10 via USB has slightly less detail and depth than the Pico DAC (DAC only or DAC/amp). 

 The main difference is the output levels of the DACs. The Pico DAC-only or Pico DAC/amp (used as a pre-amp and volume turned up) will both provide a higher volume level signal into the EF2 than the D10's line out or the EF2 built-in DAC. So you wont need to turn the EF2 volume knob as high to achieve the same volume levels. Max power of the EF2 wont change, it's just that you will reach max volume at a little bit of a lower volume knob setting on the EF2.


----------



## koven

Thanks for the responses.. I think I'm going to go w/ the Pico DAC.

 Also, just to clarify - when using the EF2's DAC, does it go through the amp or does it go straight to the line out?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the responses.. I think I'm going to go w/ the Pico DAC.

 Also, just to clarify - when using the EF2's DAC, does it go through the amp or does it go straight to the line out?_

 

It goes to the amp inside the EF2. You *can not* use the EF2 as a DAC only.


----------



## koven

Gotcha, thanks.

 Another issue, the EF2 is producing a loud hiss w/ my powered speakers using the USB DAC. My speakers are connected to the EF2 via XLR -> 3.5mm. I didn't get any hiss w/ the iBasso D2, any idea what the problem is?


----------



## Kawai_man

Im thinking of getting the EF2 or a little dot i+ and a separate DAC under 100, Which would be a better choice?


----------



## burgunder

I just ordered one of these. It will be my first headphoneamp, so it will be interesting to see how much it it improves on the HP-out of my PCs'.


----------



## koven

Question about burning in the DAC/Amp.... will it burn-in if I just leave the power on w/ no music playing? Or does music need to be playing?

 Is it bad to leave this thing on 24/7 since I'm trying to burn-in?


----------



## boomy3555

Just arrived today and burn in is progress. Not as powerful (actual volume) as the EF-1. At this time it is connected to my netbook via USB and the computer instantly recognized it with no problems. The headphone plug seems quite sturdy and the step volume is very smooth without any inbalance drop off in low volume as was an issue with the EF-1. I really appreciate the controls all "Up Front". 
 I would not attempt to evaluate the SQ pre-burn in so we'll have to wait and see, but even without an improvement post burn in, this little buddie is well worth the price.
 It came extremely well packaged and quickly via EMS/USPS. I was surprised to find the tubes shipped installed in the unit. I don't know if there would be a downside to shipping with the tubes installed.... Just different...


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about burning in the DAC/Amp.... will it burn-in if I just leave the power on w/ no music playing? Or does music need to be playing?

 Is it bad to leave this thing on 24/7 since I'm trying to burn-in?_

 


 Leaving it on will simply shorten the tube life, but should not harm the amp as long as there is sufficient airflow for the amp to maintain temp. It is best to have a signal running through the amp during burn in, (headphones playing) as the current must travel through the entire circuit for burn in to be effective


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just arrived today and burn in is progress. Not as powerful (actual volume) as the EF-1. At this time it is connected to my netbook via USB and the computer instantly recognized it with no problems. The headphone plug seems quite sturdy and the step volume is very smooth without any inbalance drop off in low volume as was an issue with the EF-1. I really appreciate the controls all "Up Front". 
 I would not attempt to evaluate the SQ pre-burn in so we'll have to wait and see, but even without an improvement post burn in, this little buddie is well worth the price.
 It came extremely well packaged and quickly via EMS/USPS. I was surprised to find the tubes shipped installed in the unit. I don't know if there would be a downside to shipping with the tubes installed.... Just different..._

 

The Amp without much burn-in sounds nicer than the DAC without burn-in - the DAC itself only needed 24-48 hours to open up in clarity and detail, and I did 250 on the amp with most of the improvement in the first 100-150). With burn-in the amp becomes less bright and the bass fills in nicely, while the DAC burn-in improves clarity and detail of the DAC section. My EF2 had about 24 hours on it when I took it home from CanJam.

 Also, the internal DAC output level is lower than some other DACs with a "hot" output like Pico DAC only or Apogee mini-DAC, and is closer to the lower levels of the D10 line-out. So it wont play quite as loud using the internal DAC as it does with the Pico DAC-only or Apogee mini-DAC. But typically that only affects the position on the volume knob needed to achieve the same volume levels. 

 With most phones the power level is just a little below the EF1, but with those new HiFiMan prototype RE5 orthodynamic phones the EF1 was much better at driving their low 4-8 ohm impedance load. With Grado and Denon the volumes can be quite loud, and still fairly loud even with 300 ohm HD600 and HD800. It beats most portable amps for power, excluding maybe the 3MOVE or SR-71.


----------



## critic

I currently have an asus xonar d2 with hd555s (which i soon hope to get 650s) my main concern is something like this worth it if you already have a decent sound card?


----------



## donunus

Anyone try any more tubes? I take it ef92s wont work on these?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think that Skylab posted what the various equivalent tubes would be.


----------



## Skylab

I don't think the EF92 will work. 6AK5 subs/equivs are 5654, CV4010, EF95. I like the Mullard CV4010's.


----------



## koven

Hello, I'm having an issue and need help from more knowledgeable people..

 I cannot get the EF2's DAC to work w/ my powered speakers because since it goes through the amp, it's producing a very loud hiss w/ my self-amped speakers.

 Will a PVC or passive preamp fix this issue or no? Do I need to get a standalone DAC and PVC together?

 I cannot use the volume control on the speaker so I need a solution that will eliminate hiss and give me a volume knob.


 Can anyone please help me with this? I'm really desperate because I cannot use my speakers right now since there's so much hiss.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I'm having an issue and need help from more knowledgeable people..

 I cannot get the EF2's DAC to work w/ my powered speakers because since it goes through the amp, it's producing a very loud hiss w/ my self-amped speakers.

 Will a PVC or passive preamp fix this issue or no? Do I need to get a standalone DAC and PVC together?

 I cannot use the volume control on the speaker so I need a solution that will eliminate hiss and give me a volume knob.


 Can anyone please help me with this? I'm really desperate because I cannot use my speakers right now since there's so much hiss._

 

Maybe you could try a Shure or Westone headphone volume attenuator between the EF2 and the powered speakers.


----------



## koven

Thanks for that suggestion.. what do you think about the following idea:

 I'm pretty set on getting a Pico DAC.. so I'm thinking, can I use both RCA and Line-Out and have the RCA go to the EF2->Headphones, while the line out goes to the speakers?

 Is there a switch in the back that determines whether u want RCA out or Line out?

 Or how would it work if they're both plugged in? Would music be playing simultaneously on my speakers and headphones?


----------



## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the EF92 will work. 6AK5 subs/equivs are 5654, CV4010, EF95. I like the Mullard CV4010's._

 

I asked about the ef92 since the little dot mk2 takes those as well as the ef95s which are compatible with these. It has to be switched internally to work though on the ld mk2. I guess If I get this amp, I could try rolling with my 6ak5 and russian 6zh1p-ev when they arrive.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone try any more tubes? I take it ef92s wont work on these?_

 

You can check the DV 332 thread for more options. The smaller tubes in the DV 332 are the same ones in the EF2.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that suggestion.. what do you think about the following idea:

 I'm pretty set on getting a Pico DAC.. so I'm thinking, can I use both RCA and Line-Out and have the RCA go to the EF2->Headphones, while the line out goes to the speakers?

 Is there a switch in the back that determines whether u want RCA out or Line out?

 Or how would it work if they're both plugged in? Would music be playing simultaneously on my speakers and headphones?_

 

I answered this in the other thread you posted in. "I feed the RCA into my Amphora and the mini to my EF2 with a mini-RCA cable, and both outputs are active at the same time with no switches, so if the amps are both on then the sound comes out of both of them."

 You can feed the RCA into the EF2, and the mini to the powered speakers just fine, but you have to control the speaker volume via the speakers or with a volume attenuator.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jellojoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can check the DV 332 thread for more options. The smaller tubes in the DV 332 are the same ones in the EF2._

 

While that's true, what works in the DV (or LD amps) may not work in the EF2. Might want to ask HeadDirect. Otherwise, I would stick to the 6AK5 and direct equivalents.


----------



## donunus

so the 6zh1p-ev is fine right?
 heres a spec link 6Zh1P-EV | Tubes Information


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I answered this in the other thread you posted in. "I feed the RCA into my Amphora and the mini to my EF2 with a mini-RCA cable, and both outputs are active at the same time with no switches, so if the amps are both on then the sound comes out of both of them."

 You can feed the RCA into the EF2, and the mini to the powered speakers just fine, but you have to control the speaker volume via the speakers or with a volume attenuator._

 

Thanks, I understand now. Will something like the NHT Passive Volume Control work instead of an attenuator? Pico -> NHT PVC -> Speakers?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I understand now. Will something like the NHT Passive Volume Control work instead of an attenuator? Pico -> NHT PVC -> Speakers?_

 

Never heard of that item, sorry. But the name makes me think it would work similarly to the attenuator.


----------



## koven

Thanks, I'm about to buy a used Pico off another member, and also the volume control elsewhere. This thread has certainly cost my wallet, lol, but I hope it'll be worth it. 

 Have you had any experience with the Compass? I'm hoping my Pico -> EF2 combo is superior because I've thought about getting an all in one unit like the Compass to make life easier.. instead of piecing together so many components.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I'm about to buy a used Pico off another member, and also the volume control elsewhere. This thread has certainly cost my wallet, lol, but I hope it'll be worth it. 

 Have you had any experience with the Compass? I'm hoping my Pico -> EF2 combo is superior because I've thought about getting an all in one unit like the Compass to make life easier.. instead of piecing together so many components._

 

I haven't heard the compass, but I am very happy with my laptop rig using Pico DAC-only to Amphora and EF2, with pre-amp out of the Amphora into my Nuforce Icon to drive my Stax transformer.


----------



## donunus

If the compass sounds in any way similar to the c2c, forget it if you want natural sound. Dont know about the dac though


----------



## hasanyuceer

Hey,

 Can anyone compare EF2 with Little Dot MKii or MKiii? Which is a better amp for hungry headphones? (like K701 or HD650 or DT880)

 Also i want to ask, it is a better choice getting EF2 or getting Little dot mkii/iii with a under 100$ DAC?


----------



## donunus

The power rating on the ldmk2 is a little lower than the ef2 for low impedance cans so the ef2 might be better just based on that but as for sound quality, I'm diving into the ef2 myself and will report on how they compare with the little dot mk2 after some burn in


----------



## boomy3555

I Kinda wish Fang would have opted for a better DAC and upped the price to compensate. More on the power level of the EF1. And the 12AU7 family of the EF-1 is easier to find tubes to "Roll" with. I DO love the new up front control presentation for sure.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks donunus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The power rating on the ldmk2 is a little lower than the ef2 for low impedance cans so the ef2 might be better just based on that but as for sound quality, I'm diving into the ef2 myself and will report on how they compare with the little dot mk2 after some burn in_


----------



## Vingard

EF2 + HD600 =


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vingard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EF2 + HD600 = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, that's what I thought too.


----------



## Vingard

I've tried it with the SRH840, DT770/250 (pro and consumer versions) and HD650, but the HD600+EF2 combo is pure auditory bliss!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that's what I thought too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## koven

HD580 here, but I agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 btw out of curiosity, if i wanted a noticeable improvement(tube amps) from the ef2, what would be a good choice? i just got a pico dac and was thinking about getting a full size tube amp instead


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HD580 here, but I agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 btw out of curiosity, if i wanted a noticeable improvement(tube amps) from the ef2, what would be a good choice? i just got a pico dac and was thinking about getting a full size tube amp instead_

 

I am using my EF2 with a Pico DAC-only and I like the sound a lot. It's one of those affordable amps where most of my phones and IEM sound good with it, and where the musicality outweighs the lesser detail or soundstage vs more costly amps. It may not be as technically capable as a more costly amp, but it is very enjoyable. If you haven't heard better, would wouldn't know you were missing anything with the Pico > EF2.


----------



## donunus

Larry,
 So just to set the record straight... you prefer the ef2s amp to the picos amp section?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry,
 So just to set the record straight... you prefer the ef2s amp to the picos amp section?_

 

When driving headphones I enjoy the EF2 amp section a little more than the Pico amp section, and EF2 is more powerful than the Pico. The EF2 amp section is not technically as precise, detailed or spacious as the Pico amp, but the EF2 is warmer and more musical/euphonic much of the time. I become more engaged in the performance with the EF2. However, the EF2 DAC is not as good as the Pico DAC, and I prefer to use my Pico DAC-only with it when available. I can still enjoy the EF2 with the internal DAC, but it's more on the level of the USB DAC in the 3MOVE or XM5, or Predator and Nuforce Icon (mobile and desktop).

 The Pico DAC/amp was good enough to feed the headphone out into a bigger amp like my Woo GES as a DAC/pre-amp - so good that I waited a year before upgrading my stat rig to a PS Audio DLIII DAC. That isn't something you would do with the EF2.

 I am not trying to make the EF2 into another FOTM, and there are plenty of cost effective amps out there to compete with it, but there is something about it that makes it worth taking a listen.


----------



## donunus

Yah I think I know what you mean. It is just like my little dot mk2. Even though they are not as punchy crisp and clean as other amps Ive heard, they are the only ones that have made me enjoy the music without analyzing too much recently. With my gilmores before for example, They were cleaner and you could probably say they are more tightly defined but they dont give me the same sense of musicality, then there was the audio gd c2c which to me was utter crap. If you could remember, I was always pestering you and other people if they have heard the gilmore to compare with other amps hehehe. Now since I like what the little dot mk2 is doing and since the ef2 uses the same tubes with more power for low impedance cans and at such a low price... I think I will be getting one very soon. I already have 2 tube sets coming in the mail that will work along with them too


----------



## mrarroyo

I agree w/ Larry that the amp section of the EF2 is very good, specially in its musicality and how much it draws the listener and involves him/her w/ the music. As far as the DAC section is concerned I actually think of it much higher than the other posters.

 My thought is that here we have a $189 amp/dac that is IMO a bargain because it is capable of delivering a lot of music involvement to its user. It has been a while since we have had a unit that offers so much for so little specially since so far any headphone has sounded great out of it.


----------



## donunus

Larry,
 When you say the dac is about 3move quality and not as good as the picos dac, are you saying that it is better than a standard $100-$200 full size cd/dvd player from pioneer or something like that? 

 mrarroyo? What do you think?

 Sorry I havent heard the 3move to know what the dac in it is like which is why I'm asking for a full size cd/dvd player comparison


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry,
 When you say the dac is about 3move quality and not as good as the picos dac, are you saying that it is better than a standard $100-$200 full size cd/dvd player from pioneer or something like that? 

 mrarroyo? What do you think?

 Sorry I havent heard the 3move to know what the dac in it is like which is why I'm asking for a full size cd/dvd player comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The DAC is better than my Macbook Pro or iPod headphone out. I love my iPhone 3GS headphone out sound quality, and EF2 DAC might be on that level. 

 My Marantz CD5001 RCA output sounds slightly better, but it isn't a huge upgrade, although it is noticeable. Then again, the Marantz sounds good enough that I could probably go without my Apogee mini-DAC or the Pico DAC-only and only be missing just a little bit of what is there. Each of these upgrades is just a little bit better in terms of depth and transparency and detail, etc, but it all adds up in the end.

 Regardless, I have said that I think the EF2 USB DAC is decent, and I wouldn't look down my nose on anyone for using it.


----------



## donunus

Thats it...time to order


----------



## koven

I think it's pretty noticeable that the amp sounds a lot better than the DAC.. which is why I got a Pico. But now I'm itching to upgrade amps, lol..


----------



## roker

I just placed my order for an EF2

 I'm hopping it's going to rock. Now I can sit around drool over pictures of the D2000 until I figure out how to buy that next (i'm on an unbelievable budget)

 My 125is are going to be happy though.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Hi Larry,

 Can you compare EF2's amp section with Audiotailor "Jade"?

 I am thinking about getting an amp and soon a dac or getting EF2 combo. My budget is really low and oppurtinity of upgrading is so limited here. Cuz of this i want to get an amp and/or dac and use it forever (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry,

 Can you compare EF2's amp section with Audiotailor "Jade"?

 I am thinking about getting an amp and soon a dac or getting EF2 combo. My budget is really low and oppurtinity of upgrading is so limited here. Cuz of this i want to get an amp and/or dac and use it forever (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I don't have a Jade to compare to.


----------



## SleazyC

Anyone have experience with how the EF2 pairs up with Westone UM3X? I want something for work that isn't too expensive and my Leckerton UHA-3 doesn't seem to fit in to well with the UM3X's.


----------



## runswithaliens

How does this amp compare to solid-state dac/amps of a similar price? I would probably use it at home between an emu 0404usb and Denon d5000 headphones. 

 By the way, Thanks HeadphoneAddict for your reviews and follow-up comments. This website wouldn't be much without people like you putting in so much time and effort.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *runswithaliens* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this amp compare to solid-state dac/amps of a similar price? I would probably use it at home between an emu 0404usb and Denon d5000 headphones. 

 By the way, Thanks HeadphoneAddict for your reviews and follow-up comments. This website wouldn't be much without people like you putting in so much time and effort._

 

I thought I'd posted that it is on par (or slightly ahead or behind depending on the headphones and music) with other amps like my Headfive, Travagans Red, Nuforce Icon desktop, 3MOVE, XM5, Millett SSH, EF1, etc. All of those including the EF2 work well with Denon headphones, so this is a good choice. 

 If it means anything to you, I'm only using the Nuforce with speaker out, I don't have my Travagans Red or Headfive hooked up to anything, I traded the EF1 even for the less expensive EF2, and the Millett sits up in my son's room where I can't use it - but I use the EF2 several times a week.


----------



## 2162

Is the ef2 still the best value for money even if the dac is not needed?


----------



## mrarroyo

I too agree w/ Larry and the ability of the EF2 to pair nicely w/ Denon's D2000/D5000. As far as value I think the EF2 has it even if now you do not need the USB DAC.


----------



## koven

Agreed, I would gladly buy this again w/o the DAC. It's a nice feature but I don't use it anymore, the amp is where it shines!


----------



## roker

Larry, any chance u can tell us how the EF2 compares to the little dot I+?


----------



## hedmaster

Hi guys, I have a new (1 wk) EF2, which I love to pieces! Well, of course, being new I did my homework and now have a few questions on how to break it in.

 I am leaving it run via the usb into my new Shure 840s, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 which I am breaking in at the same time. So, my question is, can I leave this on overnight playing pink noise or music? Or, is that too long at a time-10 hrs or so. 

 How long should I let them rest in between? 

 Also, since I am using the usb, that also means that the DAC is being broken in as well, right? 

 BTW, this combo sounds better all the time! I am so happy with my purchases. Being a n00b, I have this site and all those who contribute to thank for that, so, "THANKS"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Matt


----------



## koven

Hey Matt, I have a very similar setup as you... EF2 -> SRH840 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although mine is being fed by a Pico DAC.

 I leave my on 24/7 to burn-in... I love how when the SRH840 is not folded, the cups touch/clamp together. This way there's no noise coming out/distracting me when they're burning in.


----------



## Kawai_man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, any chance u can tell us how the EF2 compares to the little dot I+?_

 

Im also interested in knowing this


----------



## DoYouRight

Maybe I should still snag one of these for a little variation to my B22. So cheap why not? Will I still enjoy it or do you think Ive been spoiled HPA?


----------



## hedmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Matt, I have a very similar setup as you... EF2 -> SRH840 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although mine is being fed by a Pico DAC.

 I leave my on 24/7 to burn-in... I love how when the SRH840 is not folded, the cups touch/clamp together. This way there's no noise coming out/distracting me when they're burning in._

 

Sweet! Yeah, I really like how the phones clamp together also. I can have it burnin' in right in the bedroom without a peep! 

 Yeah, I would love to get a pico as well. I have been looking at those and the D10 as well. It's just so much money, ugh! 

 When you have got them properly burned in, will you please do a comparison with the pico DAC and the built in DAC with the EF2? I know there will be a difference, but I am wondering how much of a dif.

 How long are you letting yours burn in? Are you listening at different intervals? I listen to mine during the day, and when I'm not, I have them burnin' in on alternating music and pink noise at a moderate level.

 From everything that I have read on here, 100 hrs is a good starting point for burnin' in. Although, I have to admit, I really like the sound already, at about 60? or so hours. I will have to look at the calendar. Time flies when you're having fun, huh?

 Take care,
 Matt


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, any chance u can tell us how the EF2 compares to the little dot I+?_

 

Sorry, I have never heard any Little Dot amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too agree w/ Larry and the ability of the EF2 to pair nicely w/ Denon's D2000/D5000. As far as value I think the EF2 has it even if now you do not need the USB DAC._

 

Add the LA7000 to that list of Denons that it works well with.


----------



## mrarroyo

Thanks Larry, I have not tried the LA7000 so I could not comment.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hedmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 When you have got them properly burned in, will you please do a comparison with the pico DAC and the built in DAC with the EF2? I know there will be a difference, but I am wondering how much of a dif.

 How long are you letting yours burn in? Are you listening at different intervals? I listen to mine during the day, and when I'm not, I have them burnin' in on alternating music and pink noise at a moderate level._

 

the difference between the pico dac and built in dac was pretty noticeable to me.. it sounds so much better now that im feeding the ef2 w/ the pico.. i think the transparency greatly increased.. there's so much clarity/detail now.. seems like it lifted a veil on my hd580's.. bass is tighter too.. im really loving the pico + ef2 combo right now

 mine stays on 24/7..just at low/moderate levels when im not listening.. the pico is also feeding my powered speakers at the same time, it noticeably improved the sound of those as well.. again, mainly the bass/transparency


----------



## hedmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the difference between the pico dac and built in dac was pretty noticeable to me.. it sounds so much better now that im feeding the ef2 w/ the pico.. i think the transparency greatly increased.. there's so much clarity/detail now.. seems like it lifted a veil on my hd580's.. bass is tighter too.. im really loving the pico + ef2 combo right now

 mine stays on 24/7..just at low/moderate levels when im not listening.. the pico is also feeding my powered speakers at the same time, it noticeably improved the sound of those as well.. again, mainly the bass/transparency_

 

Oh man, you're killin' me! Well, I guess that just seals the deal for me. I will definitely have to save up for a DAC. I may go with the ibasso D10, or the Pico. 

 I suppose it will depend partly on the deal I can get, and the feedback that I get from people who own both. From what I've read on here, it seems that people are happy with both. They are different, but both are good in their own way.

 Have you listened to both? If so, how would you compare the two? One of my considerations will also be price. I am not against spending more, but I don't want to spend a lot more for something very similar, or with just a slight edge when compared side by side. 

 Thanks for helping me out!


----------



## boomy3555

I'm a huge Denon Fan and I've had the EF-1 and now have the EF-2, I have heard the stock 2K's,5K's,7K's, and Larry's Modded 2K's, and loaner LA7K's, and they all have such an incredible synergy with the EF Hybrids. All of the richness and flavor of the Tubes with the Solid State power to back it up. 
 For the budget minded, The EF line is an incredible bargain. and a perfect first step into the world of tube rolling.


----------



## runswithaliens

Thanks everyone for the useful information about this amps working well with Denons. I've read through this thread a couple of times now, but I don't recall if anyone has described the sound out of this amp as having the characteristic warm sound-signature of tubes. Or is it more similar to the sound one might get out of a solid state amp? (I'm new to tubes so I have nothing to base this question on other than reviews of other amps).


----------



## boomy3555

kinda half tube half SS as the hybrid name suggests, but the flavor can be "Tube Rolled" to a wide variety of choices. for instance I put a 1952 Kenrad tube in my then EF-1 and came out with an incredibly smooth sound over the stock 12AU7's. That's the most exciting part about the hybrids. tube flavor and SS power


----------



## mrarroyo

Nice description by boomy3555.


----------



## ikitub

yep.. thanks also.. will definitely get one..still waiting it to be ordered and delivered... can't wait already... but i wanna pair it with pico dac only..


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 5.5G iMod with iMod LOD is better than the EF2 USB DAC (*and most other USB DAC except the Pico*)..._

 

HeadphoneAddict,

 are you including D10, D3, D2 Viper/Boa (all are Wolfson-based DACs) into "most other USB DAC" category? Is iMod really better than D10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict,

 are you including D10, D3, D2 Viper/Boa (all are Wolfson-based DACs) into "most other USB DAC" category? Is iMod really better than D10?_

 

Yes, iMod with a good dock sounds very good and beats most portable USB DAC. I have not compared my D10 via optical vs iMod. But when I used the iMod in an ALO Jensen coper foil line out dock and A/B compared it with my Apogee mini-DAC, I was hard pressed to tell much of a difference (slightly better extension and air with the mini-DAC, but not huge). 

 Other desktop DAC that are quite good via USB like the Pico and Apogee include the Stello DA100 with up-conversion turned on, and PS Audio Digital Link III with either 96K or 192K up-conversion. I believe all of these via USB to be slightly better than the iMod, like the Apogee. Nobody at the Colorado meet 3 weeks ago noticed that my PS Audio DLIII was running the Eddie Current ZDT and Woo GES via USB, it's that good.

 Madwolf has been doing some experimenting and finding that the PCM2906 that the iBasso amps use for USB to I2S or SPDIF are introducing some phase delay between the Lt and Rt channels. That might have something to do with it.


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not compared my D10 via optical vs iMod._

 

Have you compared D10 USB vs iMod?


----------



## roker

it amazing how fast this got to me

 I ordered it on Thursday, it officially shipped on Friday, and I got it on a Monday!

 So far the only improvement I've noticed is the rhythm seems better and the overall bassline is smoother. I haven't run it through my Keces yet. I'm going to give it a better overall impressions as soon as this baby is burnt in.

 edit: tried to Keces and it sounds even better, can't wait to burn this amp in.


----------



## koven

^ glad you're enjoying it.. i agree that they're noticeably better when fed through a quality DAC.. the amp shines!


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ glad you're enjoying it.. i agree that they're noticeably better when fed through a quality DAC.. the amp shines!_

 

I'm going to reserve judgement on the DAC for now and try to see if burn in will make a difference. I don't expect it to beat the Keces but I expect to sound a bit better than it did when I first fired it up.


----------



## hedmaster

G'day mates! I have been burning mine in for over 100 hrs or so. Both the DAC and the amp. 

 My question is, when is a good time to swap the tubes? I am curious to try the 5654Ws I got off ebay last week. But, I don't know when I should consider doing this to get a fair comparison of the two. My thought is anytime after 100 hrs, but I just don't know, so thought I'd ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Just to get this straight in my head: when you run pink noise through the usb to the DAC to the amp, that will also break in the DAC as well, right? 

 Thanks guys, loving this thing with my Shure 840s!


----------



## kamme

Hello! Wonderfull review and replies. Thanks to ya all!

 One question though: does it make any sense to use RCA output from my Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 Advance DE and plug it into EF2? The card uses AK4396 DAC and triple op-amps on it's line-out OPA2604 and 2xOPA2134 ? I'm not an expert in this matter but wouldn't it make the sound too much coloured? It would go through these 3 op-amps and then through another set (tubes) in EF2. Isn't that too much?

 Planning to get an amp for HD650's and researching my possibilities. Enlighten me please


----------



## dgilmartin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a good amp for Grados and the SR-325i should get along well once the amp is burned in to get rid that initial brightness (esp with the stock chinese tubes). Once burned-in even the stock tubes sound nice, and some upgraded tubes later for $40 will take it another step higher. With the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes the EF2 now tames the treble on my RS-1 with bowls, and also takes the zing out the the Westone 3 with silicone tips._

 

I don't mean to sound like an idiot, I'm pretty new to this.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was originally looking for a portable amp, but from about 20 hours of Head-Fi forum reading I've decided against it.. I've taken the plunge and ordered an EF2 and really can't wait..! I understand it's in no way a top of the range amp, but it's a start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway... I just have a few questions. 1) Which Tubes are best to upgrade to.. 2) Where can I find them.. and 3) Are they difficult to upgrade..??

 Cheers in advance Guys

 Dan


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamme* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! Wonderfull review and replies. Thanks to ya all!

 One question though: does it make any sense to use RCA output from my Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 Advance DE and plug it into EF2? The card uses AK4396 DAC and triple op-amps on it's line-out OPA2604 and 2xOPA2134 ? I'm not an expert in this matter but wouldn't it make the sound too much coloured? It would go through these 3 op-amps and then through another set (tubes) in EF2. Isn't that too much?

 Planning to get an amp for HD650's and researching my possibilities. Enlighten me please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not sure what you're asking, but using your DAC/soundcard to this amp is ideal. When you use it as an amp, you bypass the internal DAC in the EF2. The tubes are only there for amplification reasons.

 Hope that helps. I will say however that this might not be the DAC to use for the 650. You'd have to ask someone who owns both, but I think this DAC is better suited to headphones with low impedance.


----------



## ABathingApe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgilmartin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to sound like an idiot, I'm pretty new to this.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was originally looking for a portable amp, but from about 20 hours of Head-Fi forum reading I've decided against it.. I've taken the plunge and ordered an EF2 and really can't wait..! I understand it's in no way a top of the range amp, but it's a start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway... I just have a few questions. 1) Which Tubes are best to upgrade to.. 2) Where can I find them.. and 3) Are they difficult to upgrade..??

 Cheers in advance Guys

 Dan_

 

Have you read the stickies about introductions to tubes?


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgilmartin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to sound like an idiot, I'm pretty new to this.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was originally looking for a portable amp, but from about 20 hours of Head-Fi forum reading I've decided against it.. I've taken the plunge and ordered an EF2 and really can't wait..! I understand it's in no way a top of the range amp, but it's a start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway... I just have a few questions. 1) Which Tubes are best to upgrade to.. 2) Where can I find them.. and 3) Are they difficult to upgrade..??

 Cheers in advance Guys

 Dan_

 

these are the ones i bought

2-6AK5/5654 NOS - eBay (item 260439100147 end time Aug-29-09 18:00:49 PDT)

 but i believe any 6ak5 tube would work.. and for changing them, it's a simple plug and play.

 however, i wouldnt worry too much abuot tubes at first since the stock ones sound great, just enjoy it


----------



## kamme

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure what you're asking, but using your DAC/soundcard to this amp is ideal. When you use it as an amp, you bypass the internal DAC in the EF2. The tubes are only there for amplification reasons.

 Hope that helps. I will say however that this might not be the DAC to use for the 650. You'd have to ask someone who owns both, but I think this DAC is better suited to headphones with low impedance._

 

Yeah that's what I plan to do - buy this amp and use my soundcard line-out to bypass internal DAC in the EF2. I'm just wondering if it's normal to process the sound by so much things? In my case it would be triple op-amp used in this soundcard and then the tubes (which are here for amplification reasons but they do colour the sound in some way too obviously).
 I originally thought that high-end DACs do as bare D/A converting as possible. Like without any additional triple-or-whatever-amps.


----------



## roker

Question for you guys

 I'm listening to it with a pair of Grado 125s and I can turn the volume all the way up to it's fullest when I use the internal DAC and almost all the way up when I use it with my Keces. Is it normal for the volume knob to be turned up this high?


----------



## yukihiro

That doesn't sound right... I can barely go past the 9 o'clock position on my Grados. Any more than that and I feel like it's blasting in my ears. Maybe the volume on your music program is turned down?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That doesn't sound right... I can barely go past the 9 o'clock position on my Grados. Any more than that and I feel like it's blasting in my ears. Maybe the volume on your music program is turned down?_

 

no, it's up all the way

 I use the same exact setup for my speakers

 edit: Mine's been parked at the 5 o'clock position since I got it. Figures I'd be the one to get a defective unit. It still sounds nice, it just seems like it should be louder.

 edit 2: Tried it with a pair of 555s and both of my IEMs with the same result . . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 edit 3: I've been having bad luck with audio lately (see DacMagic)


----------



## koven

that's weird.. there's no way i can get up to full volume with either the DAC or amp..

 12 o'clock is where im usually at... ~2 is the absolute max for me


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's weird.. there's no way i can get up to full volume with either the DAC or amp..

 12 o'clock is where im usually at... ~2 is the absolute max for me_

 

I shot them an email. I'm on a bad luck streak. I'm going to exchange it. I'm in love with the form factor and it doesn't sound that bad, it's unfortunate that I can't get it to a louder volume.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

iMod with ALO Vcap dock is probably slightly better sounding than D10 DAC via USB, but for $1000 with cables it better be.


----------



## koven

yeah, that definitely doesnt sound right.. it should drive your grado's easily.. go for the exchange


----------



## koven

headphoneaddict, as far as amp upgrades (tube), at what price point do you think i'd see a noticeable improvement vs the ef2? or what tube amp do you feel is a good value step up from the ef2?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_headphoneaddict, as far as amp upgrades (tube), at what price point do you think i'd see a noticeable improvement vs the ef2? or what tube amp do you feel is a good value step up from the ef2?_

 

I've already mentioned several amps that are on a similar level as the EF2 in sound quality. Of the amps that I have heard, I suppose the next level up is the Woo WA6.


----------



## kamme

Still wondering if I would be good to go with such configuration (see above) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone?


----------



## ikillgiants

Any thoughts on how the EF2 might pair with my AudioTechnica ATH-A900 cans?


----------



## roker

awesome

 freakin' awesome

 I'm shipping it to a NY location, no reason to send this baby back to China. I'm getting a replacement. I guess I'll post here same time next week.


----------



## raffy

I got a chance to listen to this wonderful little amp for a few days. I found that for the price, it's a REALLY good value. The top end is slightly rounded as expected from the tube design but not fuzzy or veiled. Bass is nice and solid. Soundstage is acceptable but not wide/large. However, instruments have their own place in the soundstage with good separation from each other. 

 Overall, if you're looking for an amp in the $200 range, this little amp is hard to beat! Thanks again to Miguel for an opportunity to test this amp out!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ikillgiants* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any thoughts on how the EF2 might pair with my AudioTechnica ATH-A900 cans?_

 

It pairs very well with mine - but mine are modded with internal dampening and a silver plated copper cable.


----------



## donunus

Anyone open these up and compare with the hybrid little dot 1+? Is it possible they are the same amp except for the included dac


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone open these up and compare with the hybrid little dot 1+? Is it possible they are the same amp except for the included dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm... Never seen any Little Dot amp, so I can't help you there.


----------



## Kawai_man

It would be interesting to see whats a better value the EF2 at 209$ or the little dot i+ at 150 plus something like a super pro DAC at 85.


----------



## donunus

Heres the internal view of the little dot 1+ hybrid tube amp.






 and the outside


----------



## roker

I saw that for lower impedance, the little dot I+ offers 800mw while the EF2 offers you only 320mw. I'm not sure if that make a difference or if those numbers are inflated. I wish someone could give us some kind of comparison. What I do know is that I'm going home for a couple of weeks and traveling with me will be the EF2. Although not as good as my Keces, the internal DAC is going to be useful on the road.


----------



## majurglery

Can anyone comment on the EF2 paired with the k601? I would be very interested to see some impressions.


----------



## roker

small update:

 they've had it for a couple of days and I was emailed today to let me know that they're going to test it tomorrow. So I guess I might not have a an amp for a few more days. They shipped fast, so hopefully I'll have a working EF2 by Tuesday or Wednesday.


----------



## koven

put up an IC for my ef2.. will sell once new amp arrives

 it's been fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the ef2 is lovely, great synergy w/ my hd580's


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_put up an IC for my ef2.. will sell once new amp arrives

 it's been fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the ef2 is lovely, great synergy w/ my hd580's_

 

damn

 that was fast

 and you convinced me to buy one in the first place.

 For my purposes, it should be fine. I plan on buying a D2000 here soon (before Christmas hopefully) and I think for Grado's and Denon, not much more is needed.

 What do you plan on buying to replace it?


----------



## miloxo

Hmm, im getting a HD600 soon, but I need a amp too.

 I would really like to know how the EF1 compares to the LD MK2. The MK2 looks imo way better though


----------



## boomy3555

I didn't feel like the EF-1 had enough power for the HD650's. I wouldn't recommend driving anything over 150 ohms with the EF


----------



## miloxo

Quote:


 I didn't feel like the EF-1 had enough power for the HD650's. I wouldn't recommend driving anything over 150 ohms with the EF 
 

Does the MK2 have more power? Ive readed somewhere in this thread that the EF actually had more power then the MK2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## boomy3555

Don't know the LD's at all. Sorry. Just know that I had to turn the EF-1 very high and did not drive the HD650's very well. There may be other opinions out there but the 650's just didn't feel like they opened up much on the EF-1.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_put up an IC for my ef2.. will sell once new amp arrives

 it's been fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the ef2 is lovely, great synergy w/ my hd580's_

 

You're gonna compare it to the WA6 first, right?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're gonna compare it to the WA6 first, right?_

 

The WA6 isn't even a hybrid is it?

 Plus it costs about 400 bucks more

 I don't want the itch, but one of these days I should go to a meet to hear all these amps and headphones I haven't had a chance to try yet.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6 isn't even a hybrid is it?

 Plus it costs about 400 bucks more

 I don't want the itch, but one of these days I should go to a meet to hear all these amps and headphones I haven't had a chance to try yet._

 

No, it's a transformer coupled tube amp, and koven just bought a used one.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're gonna compare it to the WA6 first, right?_

 

Yup, definitely!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it's a transformer coupled tube amp, and koven just bought a used one._

 

Indeed. I got a great deal! But it still costs considerably more than the EF2..


----------



## donunus

That would be a massive killing to compare those. I would still love to read that comparison though


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*That would be a massive killing to compare those.* I would still love to read that comparison though_

 

I certainly hope so, lol


----------



## Nankai

Defaut computer volume for EF2 USB DAC is only 50%. Customer will have to maximize computer volume after connect EF2 as USB DAC.


----------



## n0ah

headphoneaddict: so pretending the EF2 and D10 were the same price and portability was of no concern, does the D10 still have the stronger amp and dac?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n0ah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_headphoneaddict: so pretending the EF2 and D10 were the same price and portability was of no concern, does the D10 still have the stronger amp and dac?_

 

The D10 has a better DAC, but I think I enjoy the EF2 amp section a little more - I like to feed the D10 DAC or Pico DAC-only line out into the EF2. For IEM and low impedance phones the D10 has plenty of power, but I really like the smooth warm musical sound of the EF2 amp.


----------



## n0ah

do you have experience with the audio gd compass? i'm doing some backreading to prepare for my denon 7000's and see everyone was pretty much in agreement that the EF1 and denon 2/5/7 make for a very nice combo, and with your review of the EF2 being what sounds like at the very worst the same familar ground with the addition of a DAC, i'd see the EF2 as a pretty sure bet. gd compass on the other hand seems to be held in higher regard. i suppose i'm just looking for the stronger unit in general as i'm also interested in 650's, higher end ultrasones, etc.


----------



## roker

I got an email from head-direct saying they're shipping back the same amp to me. Anyone here running having a problem with the amp? I'm thinking this might be a problem with the power supply. Is it possible a faulty power supply could cause problems with the volume level?

 If not, then this thing sucks if I have to turn the dial almost to the max to get a decent volume. Anyone else have it parked at the 3 o'clock to max setting?


----------



## boomy3555

Please clarify... You have been using the Grados with the EF2?.. and your getting Denons?... The Grados are not high impedence but they are not really low either. I can imagine that they mey need alot of the volume that the EF2 has to give. Especially is used in DAC mode. I glanced back at your previous posts but I wasn't sure.. Sorry if I missed any of this. I have to put out at close to high volumes with my Pioneers and Fostex T50Rp's. I think Headphone Addict suggested a more powerful DAC between the source and EF-2 instead of using the onboard DAC.. I definitly think that Head-Direct should upgrade the DAC in exchange for a bit higher price.


----------



## mrarroyo

I have used my RS-1 w/ the EF2 w/ no problem and did not go past 9 o'clock or it would be too loud. Have you checked the position of the selector switch in the EF2?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

When you plug the EF-2 into a PC, Fang say the PC volume level for the USB DAC defaults to 50% and you need to turn it up on the PC.


----------



## yukihiro

Yeah, are you absolutely positive that the volume level on your PC wasn't set lower? There should be your master volume and also the EF2's DAC volume selectors in your volume control panel. Check it when you get your EF2 back.

 I have used the SR80 and SR325i with the EF2 and the most I turn the volume is to 9-10 o'clock max. It's usually under 9 o'clock though. I even have the volume set slightly lower than max on Foobar2000 so I can have a little more volume control on the EF2 knob.

 If they're returning it to you, I would think they would know what they were looking for when they inspected it. I'm not saying there could be a weird problem with your EF2, but it just sounds odd.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quick question: If somebody were to be using the DAC portion as the main input source, would it make more sense to save up for the EF1?


----------



## roker

I have a Mac and I've been using a speaker/DAC combo for the last 5 months. Simply unplugging the DAC from my speakers then plugging it into my EF2 shouldn't change a thing with the way it's setup. Going with the EF2's internal DAC is even worse as it's even harder to push my 125s. I also tried it with some Sennheiser 555s (50 ohms) with the same results.

 I'm thinking the only thing that could've given Fang a different result is his power supply. He said he'd replace it if I was still having problems, but I think I may return it and get a little dot I+ if it doesn't work out this time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have used my RS-1 w/ the EF2 w/ no problem and did not go past 9 o'clock or it would be too loud. Have you checked the position of the selector switch in the EF2?_

 

If by selector switch you mean the USB/CD button, then yes. I've switched between them fine. If there's a gain switch somewhere I haven't seen then let me know. I should have it back by Tuesday. 

 btw, are you sure it's at the 9 position? According to Fang, he said the 12 position is where it was maxing out for him with 2 being very very loud with Grados.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Mac and I've been using a speaker/DAC combo for the last 5 months. Simply unplugging the DAC from my speakers then plugging it into my EF2 shouldn't change a thing with the way it's setup. Going with the EF2's internal DAC is even worse as it's even harder to push my 125s. I also tried it with some Sennheiser 555s (50 ohms) with the same results.

 I'm thinking the only thing that could've given Fang a different result is his power supply. He said he'd replace it if I was still having problems, but I think I may return it and get a little dot I+ if it doesn't work out this time.



 If by selector switch you mean the USB/CD button, then yes. I've switched between them fine. If there's a gain switch somewhere I haven't seen then let me know. I should have it back by Tuesday. 

 btw, are you sure it's at the 9 position? According to Fang, he said the 12 position is where it was maxing out for him with 2 being very very loud with Grados._

 



 Hi Roker, sorry to hear about your amp troubles.

 It sounds like you tried to bypass the EF2's DAC by using another DAC, is that correct? Have you tried connecting the EF2 directly to another source, like a CD player? That would focus the test on the amplifier itself and remove all DAC/computer variables. If you get good volume from the CD player, then it would seem that the problem is with the source, IE the computer.

 I don't have any experience with Macs, but it is possible that it remembers different settings for different USB devices. When you switch from the USB speakers to another USB amp, perhaps it reverts to a default volume level. I reviewed your posts, but I could not determine if this was verified yet.

 For comparison, I'm using my EF2 with the DAC connected to a Windows XP computer, and Grado SR80i headphones. My headphones are very loud with the EF2 volume at 12 o'clock, and the Windows volume level up all the way. This is with the stock power supply and USB cable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Roker, sorry to hear about your amp troubles.

 It sounds like you tried to bypass the EF2's DAC by using another DAC, is that correct? Have you tried connecting the EF2 directly to another source, like a CD player? That would focus the test on the amplifier itself and remove all DAC/computer variables. If you get good volume from the CD player, then it would seem that the problem is with the source, IE the computer.

 I don't have any experience with Macs, but it is possible that it remembers different settings for different USB devices. When you switch from the USB speakers to another USB amp, perhaps it reverts to a default volume level. I reviewed your posts, but I could not determine if this was verified yet.

 For comparison, I'm using my EF2 with the DAC connected to a Windows XP computer, and Grado SR80i headphones. My headphones are very loud with the EF2 volume at 12 o'clock, and the Windows volume level up all the way. This is with the stock power supply and USB cable._

 

I think he's trying to drive a set of powered speakers out of the headphone jack of the EF2 and he isn't getting enough output level to drive them.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he's trying to drive a set of powered speakers out of the headphone jack of the EF2 and he isn't getting enough output level to drive them._

 

Oh, I thought he only brought up the powered speakers to show that another DAC device worked correctly. I got the impression that he was using Grado 125 headphones and had also tried a pair of Sennheiser 555 headphones.

 In any event, I believe it would be a valuable test to run the EF2 with his Grado headphones, and feed it with a CD player directly into the "CD Input". This would help to determine if he is getting sufficient volume from just the amp portion of the EF2.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he's trying to drive a set of powered speakers out of the headphone jack of the EF2 and he isn't getting enough output level to drive them._

 

That is strange.. I plugged my powered speakers into the EF2 and was getting a LOUD hiss, i.e. too much power.. 

 roker did you check your computer's volume like Fang said?

 I also agree that around 1 o'clock is the max before getting way too loud. I usually listen around 12.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he's trying to drive a set of powered speakers out of the headphone jack of the EF2 and he isn't getting enough output level to drive them._

 

negative

 my speakers are active and I have a separate volume pot for them.

 I would never try to drive my speakers with a headphone amp nor would I use a headphone amp as a preamp for my speakers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Roker, sorry to hear about your amp troubles.

 It sounds like you tried to bypass the EF2's DAC by using another DAC, is that correct?_

 

yes.

  Quote:


 Have you tried connecting the EF2 directly to another source, like a CD player? That would focus the test on the amplifier itself and remove all DAC/computer variables. If you get good volume from the CD player, then it would seem that the problem is with the source, IE the computer. 
 

I'm going to try that as soon as I get it back.

  Quote:


 I don't have any experience with Macs, but it is possible that it remembers different settings for different USB devices. When you switch from the USB speakers to another USB amp, perhaps it reverts to a default volume level. I reviewed your posts, but I could not determine if this was verified yet.

 For comparison, I'm using my EF2 with the DAC connected to a Windows XP computer, and Grado SR80i headphones. My headphones are very loud with the EF2 volume at 12 o'clock, and the Windows volume level up all the way. This is with the stock power supply and USB cable. 
 

like I said, I did nothing more than simply the DAC from the speakers and then I route the DAC directly to the EF2. No change in settings, no USB getting unplugged, etc.

 I'm going to give it a second round when I get it and post back here.

 thanks.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_negative

 I did nothing more than simply the DAC from the speakers and then I route the DAC directly to the EF2. No change in settings, no USB getting unplugged, etc._

 

I'm still a little confused about your powered speaker setup and the DAC.

 For clarification: Are the powered speakers a USB device? IE, do they have their own DAC? Or, did you have a distinct DAC that you were using to provide analog input to the powered speakers?

 The reason I'm asking is because switching the USB cable from some powered speakers to the EF2 would be switching to another device from the Mac's point of view, and it may keep distinct device profiles for each. However, if you had a single DAC that in turn supplied analog to the speakers, and you simply rerouted the DAC's analog output from the speakers to the EF2's CD Input, then your test would seem valid. It's still kinda apples to oranges since the purpose of the amps are different, but they are both still fruit.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FullTwisting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still a little confused about your powered speaker setup and the DAC.

 For clarification: Are the powered speakers a USB device? IE, do they have their own DAC? Or, did you have a distinct DAC that you were using to provide analog input to the powered speakers?

 The reason I'm asking is because switching the USB cable from some powered speakers to the EF2 would be switching to another device from the Mac's point of view, and it may keep distinct device profiles for each. However, if you had a single DAC that in turn supplied analog to the speakers, and you simply rerouted the DAC's analog output from the speakers to the EF2's CD Input, then your test would seem valid. It's still kinda apples to oranges since the purpose of the amps are different, but they are both still fruit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Ok, I'll clarify it

 I have a my Keces 151 DAC hooked up via USB to my Mac. Now I can take the RCA output from the DAC and hook it up to my speakers or I can disconnect it from the speakers and use it elsewhere.

 When I hooked up the EF2, I took an RCA cable directly from the DAC and routed it to the EF2's CD input.

 Once again:

 Macbook> USB > Keces 151 DAC > RCA cables > EF2 > Grado

 nothing in between and nothing in the middle

 direct from the DAC to the EF2. The only reason I mentioned my speakers is because I hook it like so with no problem:

 Macbook > USB > Keces 151 DAC > RCA cables > NHT M-00

 with no problems in volume whatsoever. I'll take screen caps and pictures if I'm still having problems when I get it back.


----------



## koven

if theres no problems in computer volume, that setup looks correct..


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Macbook> USB > Keces 151 DAC > RCA cables > EF2 > Grado
 Macbook > USB > Keces 151 DAC > RCA cables > NHT M-00_

 

OK, that helps a lot. Now I understand why you thought the power supply could be the cause. I think some of us were under the impression that you had USB speakers and were switching the USB output from the speakers to the EF2.

 If you have access to a multi-tester, perhaps you could test the power supply.

 Best of luck to you Roker!


----------



## roker

Current settings:


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... btw, are you sure it's at the 9 position? According to Fang, he said the 12 position is where it was maxing out for him with 2 being very very loud with Grados._

 

I listen at very low volumes and 9 o'clock is plenty loud for me. Cheers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_negative

 my speakers are active and I have a separate volume pot for them.

 I would never try to drive my speakers with a headphone amp nor would I use a headphone amp as a preamp for my speakers.

_

 

I said "powered" speakers = "active" speakers = same. But the rest was too confusing and looked like you wanted to use it as a DAC/pre-amp. Sorry.


----------



## shawn_low

Interesting thread since I just ordered an EF2 myself.


----------



## boomy3555

I found some tubes on eBay recently. Some Mullard 5654 NOS ( Still needing a very long burn in). Tung Sol tubes are some of my favorites and I got some NOS JTL5654/6AK5W which are incredible with this amp, and some Valve Electronic CV4010 ( the jury is still out on those) Tube rolling can be so much fun and these tubes are about the smallest I've seen. (about 1/2 the size of the 12AU7's and 6 pin.) One more thing I noticed is that this little hybrid really brings out the soundstage and warmth of my Custom C-3, and Victor FX500 (woody) IEM's


----------



## roker

update, everything is fine now and I'm loving the sound.

 I will say this however, the internal DAC sucks balls. My Keces really brings out the sound of these and I'm totally in love with the form factor. I thought I wasn't going to get an amp until I acquired speaker stands that take up less space on my desk (or a bigger desk for that matter), but this thing is a little wonder.

 Perhaps I was a bit harsh, the internal DAC isn't _that_ bad. It's great if you travel light as it works great as a means of giving you a direct line out from your computer, but for as little as 100 bucks on a decent DAC (diy DACs or a Fubar II) you'll see the true potential of the amp.

 Larry found a winner for us and I'm hoping when the time comes, the D2000s will be my last major Headphone purchase (waiting for another sale on Amazon). My ears thank head-fi, my wallet does not.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_update, everything is fine now and I'm loving the sound.

 I will say this however, the internal DAC sucks balls. My Keces really brings out the sound of these and I'm totally in love with the form factor. I thought I wasn't going to get an amp until I acquired speaker stands that take up less space on my desk (or a bigger desk for that matter), but this thing is a little wonder.

 Perhaps I was a bit harsh, the internal DAC isn't that bad. It's great if you travel light as it works great as a means of giving you a direct line out from your computer, but for as little as 100 bucks on a decent DAC (diy DACs or a Fubar II) you'll see the true potential of the amp.

 Larry found a winner for us and I'm hoping when the time comes, the D2000s will be my last major Headphone purchase (waiting for another sale on Amazon). My ears thank head-fi, my wallet does not._

 

Yeah, my $115 Super Pro DAC707 via optical from my macbook is a more detailed and spacious DAC, but via USB the EF2 is probably on par with the Super Pro USB DAC or 3MOVE DAC. It's like the difference between the DAC in the iBasso D10 or Pico vs the DAC in the 3MOVE or Predator - 2 different levels of performance, but I would say the lowest level still doesn't suck. One can be decent but there is always better out there.


----------



## boomy3555

Larry, I apologize if youv'e answered this question in another thread, but have you had a chance to evaluate the JH13's and your other high end Customs on both a tube hybrid, (EF2) and Solid state (P-51) and is there a noticable difference in the synergy? Also what tubes are you rolling in the EF2 at the moment


----------



## mrarroyo

I actually like the internal dac in the Hifiman EF2 a lot more than you and most of the posters here. I guess I put it in context of what you get for the price.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually like the internal dac in the Hifiman EF2 a lot more than you and most of the posters here. I guess I put it in context of what you get for the price._

 

X2 The Dac is adequite but I hope they upgrade the DAC soon. I know I would be happy to pay more for a better DAC, a 3.5 input (in addition to the RCA's), and maybe a bit more power overall.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually like the internal dac in the Hifiman EF2 a lot more than you and most of the posters here. I guess I put it in context of what you get for the price._

 

I'll be putting my time with when I go home for 2 weeks, so we'll see if I change my mind. Once you pair a quality DAC with it, you'll end up forgetting about the internal DAC quickly.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 The Dac is adequite but I hope they upgrade the DAC soon. I know I would be happy to pay more for a better DAC, a 3.5 input (in addition to the RCA's), and maybe a bit more power overall._

 

it just came out, I don't think you'll see that for a while.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, I apologize if youv'e answered this question in another thread, but have you had a chance to evaluate the JH13's and your other high end Customs on both a tube hybrid, (EF2) and Solid state (P-51) and is there a noticable difference in the synergy? Also what tubes are you rolling in the EF2 at the moment_

 

I discussed some of this with those two amps in my flagship custom IEM review. The two amps sound different with the JH13Pro. The P-51 is more aggressive or energetic, the EF2 is more musical and smooth. The P-51 is more spacious and the EF2 is a little more forward. The P-51 is a little more detailed, the EF2 is still detailed enough to please. I have the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes in the EF2 after I burned it in with the stock tubes for about 250 hours, and I've not changed it since my EF2 review a month ago. I still like both amps but there is no mistaking the difference.

 I spend most of my "small amp listening time" with either my iBasso D10 with AD744-OBCA/EL8201 opamps, or Pico DAC-only>Amphora because of how my laptop rig is set up in my bedroom. The P-51 pretty much lives with my iMod rig for when I am going to be somewhere for a while (like a kid's sports practice) and want to listen without draining my iPhone battery. The EF2 serves as a spare amp that I can use in the basement or family room with my Macbook if I want to use my HF-2 or HD600 and don't want the isolation of IEM because I have to interact with my family. It's much easier to move around than the DV336i that I used to keep in the basement rig, which was replaced by the EF1 and now the EF2.


----------



## boomy3555

Thanks again.Larry. Always informative.I'll let you know about the Mullards once they burn in. Already over 72hrs. opening up, but still pretty muddy and veiled.


----------



## CDPlayer

Hello everyone,

 New EF2 owner here, and I come with a question - is low hissing that I can clearly hear with the ATH-A900, and especially with SE-530 normal and is to be expected? It is the same, no matter if I have USB input connected or not.

 Thanks


----------



## boomy3555

Both of those headphone are sensitive and as such are vulnerable to low volume hissing. Make sure that your source is running at 75% to 90% output going into the EF-2 ( both USB and RCA inputs ). It may be too loud even with the EF2 at low volume, in which case you may need an inline attenuator between the EF2 and the phones. The ATH's will probably not need one but the SE530's may.


----------



## CDPlayer

Boomy,

 Thanks for the suggestions. The hiss is there even if no source is connected. I can also hear it with my DT770 Pro 250, although I do have to crank up EF2's volume to higher levels.

 Maybe my expectations of what the SNR should be are too high, coming from Xin's SuperMini IV - it is *absolutely* black at any volume level, even with SE-530.


----------



## boomy3555

You may also want to make sure that the Power block ( Walwart ) and cord are routed far away from the signal. I hear nothing from the EF2 with my Customs, Victor FX500's, Pioneers SA305's, etc. when there is no source and the Victor's especially are very sensitive. Sorry, but I'm running out of thoughs. Headphone Addict may have some ideas when he next posts so we'll see.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Many amps (not all) will make noise when you turn up the volume with no music. It's not an issue if the noise is barely detectable between songs. At normal to high listening volumes, I hear no noise during the quite time between songs.


----------



## CDPlayer

Boomy/Larry,

 Thanks for the thoughts, certainly appreciated! As Larry pointed out, when the EF2's volume is set to "normal listening level", the background hiss is barely audible, so I guess it is normal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, back to listening.


----------



## roker

I've been using this amp from my audio out of my TV and playing some Xbox games, surprisingly, my Grado's sound better than the Sen 555s. Funny thing is never pinned Grado's at being good at gaming sounds.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Wait, I _just_ thought of something. Would swapping out the tubes be worthless if you're only using the DAC portion?


----------



## yukihiro

You can't just use the DAC portion. You'd have to go through the headphone out and use it like a preamp.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't just use the DAC portion. You'd have to go through the headphone out and use it like a preamp._

 

Yes, I know. I'm just wondering if the DAC goes through a different route compared to the amp section to the headphone out.

 Heh, still in the air about my question being answered.


----------



## boomy3555

Logically the DAC is routed directly to the amp. It cannot have it's own path to the headphone out.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Logically the DAC is routed directly to the amp. It cannot have it's own path to the headphone out._

 

Cheers, I think I'll just first play it with the supplied tubes, and then swap them out with the better ones to see if there's a difference.


----------



## thechungster

Just wondering since I'm new to amps and stuff, how would you go about connecting from a computer (Via USB), to a seperate DAC then to the HifiMan EF2?


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thechungster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering since I'm new to amps and stuff, how would you go about connecting from a computer (Via USB), to a seperate DAC then to the HifiMan EF2?_

 

Computer => USB cable => DAC => RCA cable (or whatever works) => EF2


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Computer => USB cable => DAC => RCA cable (or whatever works) => EF2_

 

Correct, the external dac cables would be connected to the rca inputs on the back of the HF2. You would then use the selector switch. However you may wish to first explore the sound of the EF2's internal dac. You may find it is quite satisfactory.


----------



## koven

Yeah, give the EF2's DAC a chance before moving to a separate DAC solution. I thought it sounded pretty good until I tried feeding it w/ the Pico, it made me realize how mediocre the EF2's DAC is.


----------



## wired00

Hi Larry thanks for another great review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm tight on budget (wife constraints) and keen to upgrade my amp for HD650's. What would you recommend out of these valve amps:

 - EF2
 - Darkvoice 336SE - ($246US)
 - Little Dott MkIII - ($199)
 - LIttle Dott MkII - ($159)

 Have you (or anyone else here) tried any of these amps along with the EF2?

 I only have a ibasso D2 atm

 Cheers for any help


----------



## koven

^ All of those choices have great synergy with the HD650. I've asked HeadphoneAddict the same question when deciding to buy the EF2... but he said he has not heard any Little Dot or Darkvoice amps.

 BTW, just FYI, Skylab is selling a 336 w/ upgraded tubes in the for sale section.

 And also want to add that I had a D2 Boa before the EF2... the improvement a night and day difference and got me hooked on the tube sound.


----------



## wired00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ All of those choices have great synergy with the HD650. I've asked HeadphoneAddict the same question when deciding to buy the EF2... but he said he has not heard any Little Dot or Darkvoice amps.

 BTW, just FYI, Skylab is selling a 336 w/ upgraded tubes in the for sale section.

 And also want to add that I had a D2 Boa before the EF2... the improvement a night and day difference and got me hooked on the tube sound._

 

Great cheers for that info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have a look at the unit skylab is selling... my problem is im in Sydney so shipping from US is generally pricey O.o I think from China its ~ $50


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, give the EF2's DAC a chance before moving to a separate DAC solution. I thought it sounded pretty good until I tried feeding it w/ the Pico, it made me realize how mediocre the EF2's DAC is._

 

Yeah, what bothers me is that I think I essentially bought another Little Dot I+, but with a DAC in it as well. I forgot why I chose this over the E-MU 0404 USB...


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, what bothers me is that I think I essentially bought another Little Dot I+, but with a DAC in it as well. I forgot why I chose this over the E-MU 0404 USB..._

 

I almost got the Little Dot I+

 care to enlighten us on the differences between the two?

 btw, you'd be the first to answer that million dollar question


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wired00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry thanks for another great review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm tight on budget (wife constraints) and keen to upgrade my amp for HD650's. What would you recommend out of these valve amps:

 - EF2
 - Darkvoice 336SE - ($246US)
 - Little Dott MkIII - ($199)
 - LIttle Dott MkII - ($159)

 Have you (or anyone else here) tried any of these amps along with the EF2?

 I only have a ibasso D2 atm

 Cheers for any help_

 

I am currently considering the same list for my HD600's. I only hav ethe Zero ATM.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I almost got the Little Dot I+

 care to enlighten us on the differences between the two?

 btw, you'd be the first to answer that million dollar question_

 

i recently picked up a MKIII for fun, havent had much time to listen to it though... will try to do some listening this weekend and compare(from memory) w/ the ef2


----------



## wired00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently considering the same list for my HD600's. I only hav ethe Zero ATM._

 

Cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've pretty much settled on either a DV 336se or classic. You can grab the classic from head-direct which is $309 including shipping.

 Later I'm keen on the zero dac at Audiophilechina. Emailed to find out if they have the USB input version though... seems they only have the Coax+optic input versions?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wired00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry thanks for another great review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm tight on budget (wife constraints) and keen to upgrade my amp for HD650's. What would you recommend out of these valve amps:

 - EF2
 - Darkvoice 336SE - ($246US)
 - Little Dott MkIII - ($199)
 - LIttle Dott MkII - ($159)

 Have you (or anyone else here) tried any of these amps along with the EF2?

 I only have a ibasso D2 atm

 Cheers for any help_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ All of those choices have great synergy with the HD650. I've asked HeadphoneAddict the same question when deciding to buy the EF2... but he said he has not heard any Little Dot or Darkvoice amps.

 BTW, just FYI, Skylab is selling a 336 w/ upgraded tubes in the for sale section.

 And also want to add that I had a D2 Boa before the EF2... the improvement a night and day difference and got me hooked on the tube sound._

 

DV336SE should be just as good as the 336i. I've posted before that the 300 ohm HD600 was the one headphone the DV336i seems to beat the EF1/EF2. So I assume the HD650 would get along with the 336i/336SE just as well. But I preferred the EF1/EF2 with most of my low impedance phones like RS-1, HF-1, RS-2, Ultrasones, Denons - and it still sounds nice with HD600. The DV336i was okay with some IEM, but the EF2 is better with IEM than the DV (but EF1 volume control makes IEM almost un-usable). 

 You can make the DV336i or SE work a little better with the lower impedance phones like Grado and Denon if you really experiment a lot with a bunch of tubes (not cheap). After $600 in tubes I ended up with a Hytron brown-base 5692 in front and a Tung Sol 5998 in the rear to get decent performance from the 336i with Grados. But it still excelled with HD600 which sounded best with a Sylvania VT-231 or a Sylvania "bad boy" in front and the Tung Sol 5998 in the rear. That's $200 in two sets of tubes just to match it with two different headphones.

 If the HD650 will be your primary headphone, the Dark Voice might be a better choice, assuming you can afford a $75-100 Sylvania tube and a $40 Tung Sol tube for it.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I almost got the Little Dot I+

 care to enlighten us on the differences between the two?

 btw, you'd be the first to answer that million dollar question_

 

Well, if I did from where I am right now (college), it'll be heavily skewed in many ways:

the Little Dot I+ is at home; seven hours away, so I'll be poorly comparing from memory
The tubes in the Little Dot I+ are not "stock," so the sound is probably different from what other people hear
I have a different cable on the Little Dot I+, which actually significantly changes its sound to a way more bassy, maybe slightly muddy, way
We'll see...I have 30 days to refund in case things don't work out.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers, I think I'll just first play it with the supplied tubes, and then swap them out with the better ones to see if there's a difference._

 

I've just burned in some NOS 60's Mullards and you'll find that although the Stock tubes are really nice overall, the sound can change significantly with "Tube Rolling"


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just burned in some NOS 60's Mullards and you'll find that although the Stock tubes are really nice overall, the sound can change significantly with "Tube Rolling"_

 

Oh indeed, I found that out last year with the Little Dot I+; Im 99% sure that the two models and their tube compatibility is the same. I was just wondering if tube rolling would affect the output of the DAC path.


----------



## nzstudent

How does the EF2 compare with a mini3/gamma1? Thanks


----------



## will0957

I'm a noob. I've never owned a USB DAC / AMP, don't quite understand it all. I've read this entire thread. 

 I've got a pair of Denon AHD2000's coming today. I used to own a pair of Grado SR225's, but they've been sold a long time ago. The D2000's are my only headphones for home use.

 I want to have a quality means of listening to music, using my computer as the source, without spending a fortune. That's how I came across the EF2.

 Considering that I'm a noob and a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense to me (yet), please be kind when responding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1) EF2 plugs in to USB port on the computer, and has nothing to do with the sound card, correct?
 2) How does it work with the PC? How do you tell the PC to play music using the EF2? I've never been one to understand audio that uses data cables. Confuses me. 
 3) Would you recommend the EF2 for pairing with Denon AHD2000's for someone on a budget of under $200-250?

 Thanks


----------



## thechungster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Computer => USB cable => DAC => RCA cable (or whatever works) => EF2_

 

Ah thank you. If I was to get a Headroom micro DAC in the future, I would simple connect it to my MacBook, and use the line out part of the DAC and connect it to the EF2 right?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thechungster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah thank you. If I was to get a Headroom micro DAC in the future, I would simple connect it to my MacBook, and use the line out part of the DAC and connect it to the EF2 right?_

 

yes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *will0957* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) EF2 plugs in to USB port on the computer, and has nothing to do with the sound card, correct?
 2) How does it work with the PC? How do you tell the PC to play music using the EF2? I've never been one to understand audio that uses data cables. Confuses me. 
 3) Would you recommend the EF2 for pairing with Denon AHD2000's for someone on a budget of under $200-250?

 Thanks_

 

1) That's one option or you could use another source and bypass the internal DAC of the EF2.

 2) Go to your hardware settings after plugging in the USB cord and make sure the audio is now playing through the USB (it should show up as Burr Brown USB).

 3)Headphone Addict and Mr. Arroyo recommend it for the D2000s. 

 I say take a leap and if you don't like it, sell it on the forums.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *will0957* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a noob. I've never owned a USB DAC / AMP, don't quite understand it all. I've read this entire thread. 

 I've got a pair of Denon AHD2000's coming today. I used to own a pair of Grado SR225's, but they've been sold a long time ago. The D2000's are my only headphones for home use.

 I want to have a quality means of listening to music, using my computer as the source, without spending a fortune. That's how I came across the EF2.

 Considering that I'm a noob and a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense to me (yet), please be kind when responding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1) EF2 plugs in to USB port on the computer, and has nothing to do with the sound card, correct?
 2) How does it work with the PC? How do you tell the PC to play music using the EF2? I've never been one to understand audio that uses data cables. Confuses me. 
 3) Would you recommend the EF2 for pairing with Denon AHD2000's for someone on a budget of under $200-250?

 Thanks_

 


 When you plug in the USB from the EF2 to the computer it will recognize it as a seperate sound card and will list it as USB sound device in the "Sound Devices" file of the computer (PC).and will bypass the onboard soundcard in favor of the EF-2 so basically the EF2 acts as an external sound card.

 You may need to restart the computer or you media player (Itunes,WMP,Foobar, etc after attaching the EF2. You simply play your computer music the same way you always have. The computer will send the signal to the EF2 instead of your headphone out. While the EF2 is plugged into your PC, you will not get sound from the headphone out jack. It should default back to the onboard soundcard once you disconnect the EF2 but again, the PC may need to be restarted for it to find the default onboard soundcard after removing the EF2. It sounds like alot of work but it pretty much does all he work it'self.

 Many of us feel that the Denons have an incredible synergy with the hybrid EF1 and EF2 models from HeadDirect, so the EF-2 and Denon 2K's are probably perfect for each other. Both in synergy and price range.

 The DAC that HeadDirect chose for the EF2 is used in many other devices but is considered just pretty good. One thing that Fang can improve on in the future, so some have chosen to use a seperate external DAC running into the RCA inputs of the EF2 for that extra upgrade. I use it mostly directly from my headphone out to the RCA's of the EF2, as I have no external DAC's at my disposal. I have also run from my CD player to the EF2 directly, but as I like to EQ a bit I don't have that option directly from the CD (Marantz DV6001)

 Overall this EF2 hybrid would be an excelent choice for your budget and the Denons and we can go into "Tube Rolling" (switching different manufacturers and ages of tubes), later

 Cheers


----------



## wired00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently considering the same list for my HD600's. I only hav ethe Zero ATM._

 

Hi Carter how are your 600's with the Zero alone? I'm considering just getting a Zero Dac for now to run 650's then upgrade later with a Darkvoice 336 or LD Mk3. Budget is a concern atm and i can get a Zero DAC/USB for $180AUS including shipping


----------



## wired00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *will0957* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a noob. I've never owned a USB DAC / AMP, don't quite understand it all. I've read this entire thread. 

 I've got a pair of Denon AHD2000's coming today. I used to own a pair of Grado SR225's, but they've been sold a long time ago. The D2000's are my only headphones for home use.

 I want to have a quality means of listening to music, using my computer as the source, without spending a fortune. That's how I came across the EF2.

 Considering that I'm a noob and a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense to me (yet), please be kind when responding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1) EF2 plugs in to USB port on the computer, and has nothing to do with the sound card, correct?
 2) How does it work with the PC? How do you tell the PC to play music using the EF2? I've never been one to understand audio that uses data cables. Confuses me. 
 3) Would you recommend the EF2 for pairing with Denon AHD2000's for someone on a budget of under $200-250?

 Thanks_

 

1) yeah as others said the DAC(digital to audio converter) in the EF2 is used purely as a soundcard in the PC. It allows bypassing the DAC in your PC which would be worse quality. Also the headphone jacks frequently used are rubbish. With IEM you can especially notice the lack of quality in laptop/pc/ipod headphone outs. 
 2) you plug in the USB DAC and automatically windows/linux etc will detect the device and sound should start playing via the new "sound card".


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wired00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Carter how are your 600's with the Zero alone? I'm considering just getting a Zero Dac for now to run 650's then upgrade later with a Darkvoice 336 or LD Mk3. Budget is a concern atm and i can get a Zero DAC/USB for $180AUS including shipping_

 

At first I hated it but the issues was with my headphones not the amp. I bought my headphones used on the FS forum and the pads were really warn so the sound was lacking detail and sound stage. I replaced the pads with new ones from sennheiser this week and I am now in headphone nirvana.

 I know penchum the reviewer of the Original Zero (like I have) used HD650's for his review and was enjoying them very much with it. For my first amp I have really liked it. I am not an audiophile just someone who enjoys good sounding music so these are just my opinions but I have put the Zero up agains a Headroom supreme and my headstage Lyrix and it blows them both away IMHO. With the gain on the Zero I never go above 50% volume and I think it would hurt my ears if I did so it seems to drive the HD600's ok. I have been thinking about getting into tubes though especially with the HD600's just to see if I like the sound changes with them. I rolled through a bunch of Opamps on the zero and was able to hear only slight differences if any with the different configurations.

 Zero Review thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/


----------



## will0957

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you plug in the USB from the EF2 to the computer it will recognize it as a seperate sound card and will list it as USB sound device in the "Sound Devices" file of the computer (PC).and will bypass the onboard soundcard in favor of the EF-2 so basically the EF2 acts as an external sound card.

 You may need to restart the computer or you media player (Itunes,WMP,Foobar, etc after attaching the EF2. You simply play your computer music the same way you always have. The computer will send the signal to the EF2 instead of your headphone out. While the EF2 is plugged into your PC, you will not get sound from the headphone out jack. It should default back to the onboard soundcard once you disconnect the EF2 but again, the PC may need to be restarted for it to find the default onboard soundcard after removing the EF2. It sounds like alot of work but it pretty much does all he work it'self.

 Many of us feel that the Denons have an incredible synergy with the hybrid EF1 and EF2 models from HeadDirect, so the EF-2 and Denon 2K's are probably perfect for each other. Both in synergy and price range.

 The DAC that HeadDirect chose for the EF2 is used in many other devices but is considered just pretty good. One thing that Fang can improve on in the future, so some have chosen to use a seperate external DAC running into the RCA inputs of the EF2 for that extra upgrade. I use it mostly directly from my headphone out to the RCA's of the EF2, as I have no external DAC's at my disposal. I have also run from my CD player to the EF2 directly, but as I like to EQ a bit I don't have that option directly from the CD (Marantz DV6001)

 Overall this EF2 hybrid would be an excelent choice for your budget and the Denons and we can go into "Tube Rolling" (switching different manufacturers and ages of tubes), later

 Cheers_

 

Thanks for the post. I went ahead and ordered the EF2. Cheers!


----------



## koven

Just for the record, I've been listening to the LD MKIII and, from memory, it does sound better than the EF2.


----------



## sad_katz

How's a DacMagic + EF2 combo sounds? Do you think it'll be a good combo?


----------



## boomy3555

Almost any stand alone DAC will be on par if not better than the EF2's onboard. Pretty much all of the external dac builders will start with a DAC similar in quality and cost to the EF'2 DAC. The onboard is respectable, but so far many people have expressed a preferrence to an external dac into the RCA's of the EF-2. and truthfuly, I use it mostly right from the headphone out of my netbook. ( I disaggree with most who say headphone out on laptop sucks.)


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_( I disaggree with most who say headphone out on laptop sucks.)_

 

I'd rather have a direct line-out

 that's the biggest issue I have.

 even a simple 100 dollar DAC could serve that purpose.


----------



## hasanyuceer

What about Travagans Green? Which one is better choice EF2 or Green?

 And also has anyone got an idea about YULONG Crystal DA?
Welcome to Audiophilechina


----------



## boomy3555

EF2 is Tubes so an A/B isn't likely.. Both the Travagans Green and the Yulong look like great DAC/Amp combos but if you want the "Taste of Tubes" the EF-2 is a good place to start


----------



## hasanyuceer

I only want to get best performance for that amount of money.. I looked into Green but it doesnt seem to be enough powerful..

 Only EF2 and Yulong are in the race now..


----------



## boomy3555

Check Out LittleDot Amps as well. Any of the Tube/SS hybrids such as EF2 and LD I+, should have plenty of power for your 80 ohm Beyers. But the Yulong may be a better choice if you decide to go with higher ohm cans such as Senn (300 ohm) or even the higher resistance 250 ohm Beyers.


----------



## hasanyuceer

What about K701 or other low impedance but power demanding headphones?


----------



## boomy3555

The AKGs have specific power consumption requirements. Especially the 701's. The 702's i had didn't seem to be particularly hungry cans. But the 701 really needs a jump start to get going.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks for answers.. 

 Still got a lot of time getting an HD650 or K701. First I am thinking about getting a Grado or Goldring or HD555 and EF2 is enough for them I think.

 I am pulling the trigger for an EF2!


----------



## boomy3555

Go For it !! It's a great starter tube amp and you can always use it as a preamp followed by another Solid State amp when you get higher impedance cans and need more power.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I've ordered it. I will worry about high impedance cans, when I got one. 

 Thanks again


----------



## mrarroyo

Cheers Hasan and enjoy your new toy!


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks Miguel


----------



## Nike T

Hey guys, I'm looking into getting this, maybe. Right now I'm using SR-225i's, and these will be my first amp and dac. I'm also thinking of maybe getting a gamma1 and a little dot I+ maybe. Which do you guys think will be better? I'll probably be using it through college, I'm a senior now, if I can resist the upgrade bug.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Well that was an utter waste of my time and money. The damn thing doesn't even work. I tried switching the tubes, flipping the power switch (no LED?) up and down, switched the CD and USB, and still no go. In fact, it seems to turn on when I plug in the USB cable, not the AC input.

 I'm glad I contacted Head-Direct to get a refund ahead of time. I'm just disappointed that now I have to contact the person who wanted to buy this and say that I can't, because the unit is DOA.


----------



## koven

^ Wow, sorry to hear that.. sucks that you couldn't even test it out. But it's good that you arranged the return already.


----------



## wired00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that was an utter waste of my time and money. The damn thing doesn't even work. I tried switching the tubes, flipping the power switch (no LED?) up and down, switched the CD and USB, and still no go. In fact, it seems to turn on when I plug in the USB cable, not the AC input.

 I'm glad I contacted Head-Direct to get a refund ahead of time. I'm just disappointed that now I have to contact the person who wanted to buy this and say that I can't, because the unit is DOA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Stanislaus

That was me lol. Oh well guess I'm ordering from them directly. But it does make me a bit worried now about ordering my own lol.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was me lol. Oh well guess I'm ordering from them directly. But it does make me a bit worried now about ordering my own lol._

 

Hey, sweet, you saved me some time from a PM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really sorry this didn't work out...good luck ordering your own!


----------



## Stanislaus

Maybe if the USB lights up it could be a faulty AC adapter? But who knows.


----------



## yukihiro

That's pretty bad if it was DOA. I'd be surprised if they don't do QC checks before sending them out. Oh well, stuff happens. At least you'll get to return it with no problems.

 On another note, I'm liking mine now more with Raytheon 6AK5W tubes. I only really use them with the SR325i though.


----------



## Stanislaus

I'm using stock HD580s with a iBasso D3. With the D3 I'm enjoying the spaciousness,detail in the highs and mids but the bass seems weak and flabby on certain songs. It just feels like the 580s need more power. So I guess my main question is is the EF2 as a DAC/AMP a better choice then the D3 as a DAC/AMP for the 580s? Anyone want to comment on how the D3 and EF2 DACs compare to each other? And would I benefit from using the D3 DAC to the EF2 amp?

 Or what has the best synergy with the 580s under and up to $400 for a DAC/amp together or separate?

 Thanks


----------



## boomy3555

When plugged into the USB, the Yellow led will light powered from the USB of the computer regardless of the power status of the amp.. The blue LED to the left end below the power switch is hard to see unless directly in front of it. It will only alluminate if there is power. I would assume you have ,so please forgive me but is the powerblock working ( tested with a multimeter, 16v AC at the tip) ?.


----------



## noinimod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using stock HD580s with a iBasso D3. With the D3 I'm enjoying the spaciousness,detail in the highs and mids but the bass seems weak and flabby on certain songs. It just feels like the 580s need more power. So I guess my main question is is the EF2 as a DAC/AMP a better choice then the D3 as a DAC/AMP for the 580s? Anyone want to comment on how the D3 and EF2 DACs compare to each other? And would I benefit from using the D3 DAC to the EF2 amp?

 Or what has the best synergy with the 580s under and up to $400 for a DAC/amp together or separate?

 Thanks_

 

The amp section of the EF2 is definitely superior to the D3, and that weak bass is a definite sign that the 580s are not getting enough juice.

 I'm not sure about _best_, but the little dot mkiii synergizes pretty well with it.


----------



## koven

not sure how the d3 compares to the d2 boa.. but my ef2 was a pretty big improvement from the d2 boa

 you could keep the d3 as a dac and get a tube amp like 336se/mkiii/ef1/etc


----------



## Stanislaus

Thanks for the responses. I went ahead and ordered the EF2. I guess I'll burn it in alone and with the D3 DAC and swap in some 6AK5s later. Then I will report my results. 

 Guess in the end I'm looking for one unit to have on my desk but if I'm not happy here the next step will be Pico DAC->336classic/LDMKIII. Let the wallet emptying begin.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using stock HD580s with a iBasso D3. With the D3 I'm enjoying the spaciousness,detail in the highs and mids but the bass seems weak and flabby on certain songs. It just feels like the 580s need more power. So I guess my main question is is the EF2 as a DAC/AMP a better choice then the D3 as a DAC/AMP for the 580s? Anyone want to comment on how the D3 and EF2 DACs compare to each other? And would I benefit from using the D3 DAC to the EF2 amp?

 Or what has the best synergy with the 580s under and up to $400 for a DAC/amp together or separate?

 Thanks_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the responses. I went ahead and ordered the EF2. I guess I'll burn it in alone and with the D3 DAC and swap in some 6AK5s later. Then I will report my results. 

 Guess in the end I'm looking for one unit to have on my desk but if I'm not happy here the next step will be Pico DAC->336classic/LDMKIII. Let the wallet emptying begin._

 

The EF2 will have more power for the HD580 than the D3 would have, but the D3 DAC will be a little more detailed and spacious sounding than the EF2 built-in DAC (thanks to the WM8740), so the two would make a good combo.


----------



## nzstudent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EF2 will have more power for the HD580 than the D3 would have, but the D3 DAC will be a little more detailed and spacious sounding than the EF2 built-in DAC (thanks to the WM8740), so the two would make a good combo._

 

When people refer to more power, what effect does that have on sound? ie more punchy/bassy/louder? and does it make much difference when using low impedance cans? thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nzstudent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When people refer to more power, what effect does that have on sound? ie more punchy/bassy/louder? and does it make much difference when using low impedance cans? thanks_

 

It can be any of the above things you mentioned. With a low impedance Grado or Denon or Ultrasone the D3 could get quite loud and not feel too strained. But the D3 with HD600 will start to clip earlier and not have the punch of the Denon and Grado on the D3. Some amps will be current limited and can start to sound thin and harsh when pushed too hard, and even desktop amps can do that. My Meier Headfive with Grado RS-1 can lose its warmth and get thin and brittle when pushed past its limits. Usually I wont turn the volume up that high with low impedance phones to discover that issue because it can be quite loud. But with high impedance phones the Headfive can do well because it has more voltage available and doesn't need to push as much current. Most portables wont have enough voltage to drive high impedance phones. The 9v 3MOVE is probably the best with HD600, right above the Pico and Micro Amp that come in next. The EF2 still has more power than those.


----------



## Stanislaus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EF2 will have more power for the HD580 than the D3 would have, but the D3 DAC will be a little more detailed and spacious sounding than the EF2 built-in DAC (thanks to the WM8740), so the two would make a good combo._

 

So in your opinion how much of an improvement could I see vs the extra cost (roughly 200 more)of say a PICO/336se combo?

 Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in your opinion how much of an improvement could I see vs the extra cost (roughly 200 more)of say a PICO/336se combo?

 Thanks_

 

You'd get a small improvement in space and ambience/soundstage from the Pico. You would also get more volume output at specific volume knob settings from feeding an amp from the Pico, while the D3 line out is quieter like the EF2 built-in DAC.

 With the 336i you'd get a moderate improvement with HD600/650 if you get the right tubes for it (Sylvania VT-231 or "bad boy" and Tung Sol 5998). But with the lower impedance phones like Grado, Denon, Ultrasone, or Audio Technica the EF2 would be a little more powerful and better tuned for them. 

 And the EF2 is not bad at all with the HD600, but just not quite on the level of a 336i which I thought was slightly better with HD600 than the more powerful EF1 in a side by side. But the EF1 was better with everything else. Don't have the 336i anymore since I sold it once I decided the EF1 was a better choice for my basement rig, so can't compare 336i to the EF2. I can only say when I compared the EF1 (also gone) to the EF2 that the EF2 sounded very similar but with a little less power with 8 ohm loads and 300 ohm loads.


----------



## roker

I have to field a complaint about the EF2.

 It's just not powerful enough. I think it brought out the best of my Grado 125s, but I feel as though I'm missing just a bit more. I got rid of mine and I'm looking into getting an EF1.

 This amp is definitely worth it though. It's small (good for cramped desks), easy to transport, and it has a nice rich sound to it (blew away my Fubar III and other smaller amps I've heard), but it makes you want to upgrade. It feels like there's something better around the horizon. 

 If you're on the fence about buying an amp for your Grados, STOP IT! Get this and you'll be happy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to field a complaint about the EF2.

 It's just not powerful enough. I think it brought out the best of my Grado 125s, but I feel as though I'm missing just a bit more. I got rid of mine and I'm looking into getting an EF1.

 This amp is definitely worth it though. It's small (good for cramped desks), easy to transport, and it has a nice rich sound to it (blew away my Fubar III and other smaller amps I've heard), but it makes you want to upgrade. It feels like there's something better around the horizon. 

 If you're on the fence about buying an amp for your Grados, STOP IT! Get this and you'll be happy._

 

The EF1 will sound very similar but with more power. And there are a lot of 12AU7 tubes out there to try in it. But I don't know if they have upgraded the volume controls on the EF1 yet. So if the current EF1 are like my early EF1 (with soldered opamp instead of socketed), then you really can't use IEM with it because the EF1 volume wont go to zero and the channel imbalance was bad at low volumes.

 Also, the EF2 is probably more current limited than it is voltage limited, so it can run 300 ohm phones fine; but with the 4-8 ohm prototype RE5 orthodynamic at CanJam the EF2 didn't have enough current to do them justice, while the EF1 did. But that was the only time I felt the EF2 was underpowered, as it out-powers most portable amps easily (but some day I need to compare the 3MOVE power with EF2, since the 3MOVE seems to be my most powerful portable).


----------



## Stanislaus

I'm still waiting for my EF2 to be delivered but it seems like a lot of the people in this thread who purchased one have already moved on to other amps.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EF1 will sound very similar but with more power. And there are a lot of 12AU7 tubes out there to try in it. But I don't know if they have upgraded the volume controls on the EF1 yet. So if the current EF1 are like my early EF1 (with soldered opamp instead of socketed), then you really can't use IEM with it because the EF1 volume wont go to zero and the channel imbalance was bad at low volumes._

 

I've heard from a few people that the EF1s being shipped right now have a socketed opamp. I went ahead and shot Fang an email to confirm it.

 I don't really plan on using them with IEMs. I only use my IEMs for my iphone. Even then I took your advice and got the NuForce NE7ms (great recommendation btw). Off topic, is there a way to use the NE7ms with amps that require a 1/4' input? Every time I use mine with one with an adapter, I have to hold the mic button for sound.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still waiting for my EF2 to be delivered but it seems like a lot of the people in this thread who purchased one have already moved on to other amps._

 

Like I said, it's a great starter amp. It was the first amp I listened to that really opened up my Grado's. The only problem I have with this amp is that it makes you yearn for more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard from a few people that the EF1s being shipped right now have a socketed opamp. I went ahead and shot Fang an email to confirm it.

 I don't really plan on using them with IEMs. I only use my IEMs for my iphone. Even then I took your advice and got the NuForce NE7ms (great recommendation btw). Off topic, is there a way to use the NE7ms with amps that require a 1/4' input? Every time I use mine with one with an adapter, I have to hold the mic button for sound.



 Like I said, it's a great starter amp. It was the first amp I listened to that really opened up my Grado's. The only problem I have with this amp is that it makes you yearn for more._

 

I didn't mean to imply that the socketed opamp was the issue with using it with an IEM, just stating that my EF1 was old enough that the opamp was still soldered, and so being that old I couldn't say if the newer EF1 have a better volume pot.

 I have not tried the NE-7M with a 1/4" adapter, I only use it with my ipods, so I don't know what to do to make it work for you. You may have to use something like an IEM volume attenuator between the NE-7M and the 1/4"plug, since I found that with some incompatible amps/MP3 players that using one would fix issues with plug compatibility (Fiio E3 is one I recall).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still waiting for my EF2 to be delivered but it seems like a lot of the people in this thread who purchased one have already moved on to other amps._

 

It's a good starter amp, and for some it could be their last amp. For others with a bigger budget, maybe they should have been looking at amps like the WA6 instead of budget amps.


----------



## Stanislaus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a good starter amp, and for some it could be their last amp. For others with a bigger budget, maybe they should have been looking at amps like the WA6 instead of budget amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Must resist Pico/WA6, wallet would not be happy with me.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't mean to imply that the socketed opamp was the issue with using it with an IEM, just stating that my EF1 was old enough that the opamp was still soldered, and so being that old I couldn't say if the newer EF1 have a better volume pot._

 

the ef1s are socketed now. But now I have to ask: how does that affect the volume pot? Was there a big issue with volume control?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the ef1s are socketed now. But now I have to ask: how does that affect the volume pot? Was there a big issue with volume control?_

 

I've said many times my EF1 had poor low volume control and wont go to zero volume. I don't know if that was ever fixed.


----------



## boomy3555

In the earlier EF1's, the volume pot would favor Lt > Rt or Rt > Lt at extremely low volume levels. Most Iem's would require the volume to be turned extremely low level to maintain listening levels or requiring the source to be turned down or the use of an inline attenuator.I have noticed the same requirements for a low input source volume or attenuator even with IEM's on the EF2, but the volume pot is greatly inproved with a step attenuator and no low volume imbalance. I don't know if Fang has ever improved on the build of the EF1's volume pot, but it seemed to happen less often, so maybe it was a bad batch.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Must resist Pico/WA6, wallet would not be happy with me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

resistance is futile


----------



## mrarroyo

Both the EF2 and EF1 are excellent units specially at their given price points. Not easy to find an USB DAC tube Amp for $189, that delivers the quality sound the EF2 does.

 Contrary to the above I find either to have more than enough power for any of my cans (the AKG K501 being the hardest to drive). Rarely go above 9 o'clock on the volume pot.


----------



## FraGGleR

The EF2 was recommended as a good starter DAC/Amp, and I am sure it will be great for now with the headphones that I am listening to. I have been on a classical kick recently (the Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3 makes me so happy), and have set my sights on the AKG K701's as a good level jump from where I am looking. I won't be doing the upgrade for at least the next year, but if I got the EF2, would it be able to drive the K701's close to their potential. If it does, is it a good match? 

 Oh, and just in case this thread gets more looks that where I asked earlier, how would mini^3 amp compare to the amp in the EF2?

 Thanks!


----------



## hasanyuceer

Also interested in FraGGleR's question.

 I got EF2, using with DT770/80 but I am very curious if EF2 drives K701?

 Second thing I want to ask is, How is the synergy between EF2 and Senn HD600?


----------



## Stanislaus

EF2 just arrived. Using HD580s - Compared to my iBasso D3 with roughly 125 hours using DAC/Amp and Ef2 with 0-1 hours using DAC/Amp:

Highs- brighter/bit harsher, not as smooth
Mids- seem a little louder not as smooth
Lows-I can notice the extra power vs the D3. Bass is a bit fuller. Less distortion/clipping (whatever the correct term would be).

 More powerful, more full sounding all around.

 Less sound stage.

 So far at zero hours it would be the D3 has more soundstage better highs/mids vs EF2 with fuller more powerful sound. 

 Since I am only keeping one for the next 2 years until college is done I will continue to burn both in past 200 hours before making a final decision. Also have some NOS Tung Sols on the way to roll in. 

 I am beginner at this so all of this is my best guess but I will report again when I have sufficient burn in on both. Also gonna test with the D3 as the DAC and EF2 as AMP.

 Thanks to everyone for answering my replies on the EF2. Much appreciated.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanislaus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EF2 just arrived. Using HD580s - Compared to my iBasso D3 with roughly 125 hours using DAC/Amp and Ef2 with 0-1 hours using DAC/Amp:

Highs- brighter/bit harsher, not as smooth
Mids- seem a little louder not as smooth
Lows-I can notice the extra power vs the D3. Bass is a bit fuller. Less distortion/clipping (whatever the correct term would be).

 More powerful, more full sounding all around.

 Less sound stage.

 So far at zero hours it would be the D3 has more soundstage better highs/mids vs EF2 with fuller more powerful sound. 

 So far one annoyance is every time I start it, I must adjust the system volume slider to max. Gonna see if there is something I'm missing.

 Since I am only keeping one for the next 2 years until college is done I will continue to burn both in past 200 hours before making a final decision. Also have some NOS Tung Sols on the way to roll in. 

 I am beginner at this so all of this is my best guess but I will report again when I have sufficient burn in on both. Also gonna test with the D3 as the DAC and EF2 as AMP.

 Thanks to everyone for answering my replies on the EF2. Much appreciated._

 

That's what my EF2 sounded like before burn-in as well, so I thought it was bright and rough with my Grados and HD800 until 250 hours. After burn-in it was much nicer, and then the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes took it another step upwards. It's nice enough that I haven't used my HR Micro Amp or Meier Headfive at the bedside since CanJam...


----------



## burgunder

I have about 150 hours on my EF2 and I think it sounds rather smooth now with my K400s'. In the beginning it was very fatiguing but with 50 hours or so of burnin it was OK and seems smooth now. I'm listening to "Sketches of Spain" rigth now which can be very brigth with the trumpet and all the horns but it's very nice. I'll continue to burn it in for another 50-100 hours and then I'll swap the stock tubes for pair of NOS Mullards.


----------



## espandon

How can I change the tubes? I opened up the plexiglass and found the tube connections too sturdy to move? So here is my question: how do I exactly roll the tubes?


----------



## Skylab

You gently roll the tube around in a circle while pulling upward. That's why they call it "tube rolling"


----------



## espandon

OK, but I've seen a video on the internet. The guy was unleashing a clip before the roling (but that was a guitar amp, I think.) So I was wondering if there is such a clip in EF2?

 Ah, and where should I hold the tube?


----------



## Skylab

I've never seen the EF2, but I have also never seen an audio amp with a clip of any kind locking on a tube.

 Hold the tube as close to the base as you reasonably can.


----------



## espandon

Thanks Skylab, I guess I should be more stubborn.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I was able to wrap a rubber band around the exposed top portion of the tubes to get a better grip on them. and pull them out without even removing the plexiglass cover (which gives you better access to the tubes that you don't need).

 And, Skylab knows this and is just teasing, but tube rolling is like "rolling your own smokes" where people would by tobacco and paper and make their own cigarettes just the way they liked them.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You gently roll the tube around in a circle while pulling upward. That's why they call it "tube rolling" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I always wondered where that term came from. Even though I don't smoke, I always imagined people rolling tubes around in a piece of paper, like making a blunt or whatever they're called.


----------



## eam88

Just ordered mine today! I am excited to hear it with my AKG K272HDs. I am sure it will sound better than the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Ordered an Ipod Lod to RCA as well but I will be listening mostly from my laptop through the USB DAC. Down the road I hope to upgrade the tubes and get a DAC.


----------



## EvilSoundGuy 7

I just bought a pair of Senn HD650's and I was wondering what people thought about pairing them with this amp? Thanks.


----------



## espandon

Thanks Larry, I got it. I have an another question though. I found here in a local store, quite a variety of tubes. But guy was storing them in poor conditions. I mean all the tubes were stocked in a half gallon jar, touching each other very intimately. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I guess I could buy them like 1$/ a pair. And I saw a few sylvania tubes, so I'd really would like to give it a try.
 But there is a pretty good chance that they are unmatched or too different in balance, so I'd have to buy approximately 10 pairs or something...

 My question is, Are they worth trying? Or are they certainly spoiled or broken down due to the poor storage conditions? And is it dangerous to try them in the EF2 anyway?

 Thanks


----------



## _jon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EvilSoundGuy 7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a pair of Senn HD650's and I was wondering what people thought about pairing them with this amp? Thanks._

 

HD650 has a nice, warm signature through the EF2. Soundstage is somewhat limited but the tone is very relaxing for extended listening. I'd highly recommend the EF2 as an entry to the tube world. Myself, I'm already eyeing a Woo Audio 6 as an upgrade to really open up my HD650's and GMP 8.35.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *espandon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry, I got it. I have an another question though. I found here in a local store, quite a variety of tubes. But guy was storing them in poor conditions. I mean all the tubes were stocked in a half gallon jar, touching each other very intimately. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I guess I could buy them like 1$/ a pair. And I saw a few sylvania tubes, so I'd really would like to give it a try.
 But there is a pretty good chance that they are unmatched or too different in balance, so I'd have to buy approximately 10 pairs or something...

 My question is, Are they worth trying? Or are they certainly spoiled or broken down due to the poor storage conditions? And is it dangerous to try them in the EF2 anyway?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Grab up all you want. The is no right or wrong way to store except to keep the contacts clean or prevent breakage. You may find some pretty unique old tubes in there. pop over to the tube rolling threads and jot down some names and numbers to look for. TungSol, Sylvania, Mullard, Telefunken, and my favorite,, Kenrad, etc.


----------



## eam88

Does anyone know how long it takes to ship to the DC Area/Mid-Atlantic?


----------



## migs008

Could someone tell me if there is a huge difference between using a Hifiman EF2 from the Nuforce icon when using them for headphones?

 I mean comparatively for something from low-grade cans to high-end ones?


----------



## koven

it will be a huge improvement from the icon..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *espandon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry, I got it. I have an another question though. I found here in a local store, quite a variety of tubes. But guy was storing them in poor conditions. I mean all the tubes were stocked in a half gallon jar, touching each other very intimately. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I guess I could buy them like 1$/ a pair. And I saw a few sylvania tubes, so I'd really would like to give it a try.
 But there is a pretty good chance that they are unmatched or too different in balance, so I'd have to buy approximately 10 pairs or something...

 My question is, Are they worth trying? Or are they certainly spoiled or broken down due to the poor storage conditions? And is it dangerous to try them in the EF2 anyway?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Probably worth trying, although it would be nice to get them tested. I don't think a tube dying will damage the amp. If they sound matched they are likely matched well enough, but testing them is nice.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EvilSoundGuy 7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a pair of Senn HD650's and I was wondering what people thought about pairing them with this amp? Thanks._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *_jon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HD650 has a nice, warm signature through the EF2. Soundstage is somewhat limited but the tone is very relaxing for extended listening. I'd highly recommend the EF2 as an entry to the tube world. Myself, I'm already eyeing a Woo Audio 6 as an upgrade to really open up my HD650's and GMP 8.35._

 

I think the stock tubes are slightly bright with HD800 and just right for HD600, so they might be fine for the HD650. I don't like the HD650 as much as the HD600 on my WA6, except when I heard the 650 off a Zana Deux they sounded very good. YMMV.


----------



## EvilSoundGuy 7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the stock tubes are slightly bright with HD800 and just right for HD600, so they might be fine for the HD650. I don't like the HD650 as much as the HD600 on my WA6, except when I heard the 650 off a Zana Deux they sounded very good. YMMV._

 

I know the stock tubes are the 6J1's and if they're on the brighter side that would be great. I know this isn't really the right thread but could you make any other suggestions for amp/dac's in a similar price range as the EF2?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how long it takes to ship to the DC Area/Mid-Atlantic?_

 

I don't know about the DC area, but I ordered on a Friday and got it on a Monday and I live in NYC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EvilSoundGuy 7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know the stock tubes are the 6J1's and if they're on the brighter side that would be great. I know this isn't really the right thread but could you make any other suggestions for amp/dac's in a similar price range as the EF2?_

 

Travagans White might be a good match with the HD650 in terms of frequency response/balance, and it has more power than most of the portable DAC/amps. I can't compare the White vs EF2 because I swapped gear with someone else as we wanted to review stuff the other person had. But I do think the White would be close to the EF2 in sound quality although it costs $100 more. (and for Grados you'd want to swap the White's stock opamp out for an OPA627 on an over/under 2:1 adapter). I also think the White would be a better match than the Nuforce Icon Desktop DAC/amp which is less bright and more veiled as an amp ($249).

 Frequency response wise, the Meier 3MOVE portable pairs nicely with the HD600 and might work well with the HD650, but while it's power is greater with HD600 than my other portables it is still below that of a desktop amp. 

 So, the EF2 is the best deal around for a desktop DAC/amp. Just don't drop some "round tube'y sounding" Mullards into it for HD650...


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Do they ship from nyc or china?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do they ship from nyc or china?_

 

Ships from China

 but returns go to NYC


----------



## migs008

So how is the DOA ratio for this then? It is from china.

 I think the cheapest place I found for them new is to get it from amazon.

 Nuforce Icon is actually cheaper in ebay though if you use bings cashback.


----------



## koven

^ it's the same price whether u get it from amazon, or ebay, or directly from head-fi


----------



## aryastark90

I just bought a pair of hd600's. They will be used for now with a headsix amp and ipod touch2g line out and nothing but lossless music files. If I bought this amp/dac and use my pc as source and ef2 internal dac, would I get better or worse sound then my current configuration?


----------



## koven

the ef2's dac/amp will be an improvement to both your pc's internal sound card, and also your headsix amp

 i dont know if it's worth it to feed your headsix with the ef2's dac, you'd get much better sq by using the ef2's amp instead

 its a great entry level "tube" amp and has excellent synergy with hd600/650


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the ef2's dac/amp will be an improvement to both your pc's internal sound card, and also your headsix amp

 i dont know if it's worth it to feed your headsix with the ef2's dac, you'd get much better sq by using the ef2's amp instead

 its a great entry level "tube" amp and has excellent synergy with hd600/650_

 

X2


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *migs008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how is the DOA ratio for this then? It is from china.

 I think the cheapest place I found for them new is to get it from amazon.

 Nuforce Icon is actually cheaper in ebay though if you use bings cashback._

 

wow

 I didn't know it was on Amazon

 It would've saved me some money for shipping and I could've used my gift card

 oh well


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *migs008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how is the DOA ratio for this then? It is from china._

 

Eh, I seem to be the only one that had a unit come DOA. I returned it to their New York station, and they refunded me in full (minus the shipping I used to ship it back) without any problems.


----------



## aryastark90

How does the dac on the ef2 compare to an emu 0404? I used to own the emu and thought it sounded great but sold it because it would occasionally freeze up over usb. Would they sound similar?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Mine just came in today, less than 6 days after ordering. Very impressed with the build quality, very solid unit. Just plug it in and it works. This is my entry into the hifi world and they are paired with modded HD580. Initial listening sounds very good.. extremely clear, much better bass than out of computer. I really think I am going to love this unit.


----------



## koven

^ Glad to hear you're enjoying it, the HD580 + EF2 was also my first/entry setup. I enjoyed it so much that I couldn't fight the urge to upgrade


----------



## NormaJean

I'm looking for an amp for my sr225 I'm mainly playing music from my computer.

 Right now I have a emu 0202, is the dac from the emu better than the dac from the ef2?

 I'm wondering if I should go with a amp only unit instead of going with a dac/amp such as the ef2

 In the case that I would not be going with the ef2, I'd probably buy something like the LD mk III

 Any tought on what I should do?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

EKK, I went back to test out my HD485s and they sound so muffled now. The HD580s are producing an extremely clear sound with the EF2.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NormaJean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking for an amp for my sr225 I'm mainly playing music from my computer.

 Right now I have a emu 0202, is the dac from the emu better than the dac from the ef2?

 I'm wondering if I should go with a amp only unit instead of going with a dac/amp such as the ef2

 In the case that I would not be going with the ef2, I'd probably buy something like the LD mk III

 Any tought on what I should do?_

 

I'd keep the emu and get a LD MK III. from what i recall, my ld mkiii sounded better than the ef2


----------



## aryastark90

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine just came in today, less than 6 days after ordering. Very impressed with the build quality, very solid unit. Just plug it in and it works. This is my entry into the hifi world and they are paired with modded HD580. Initial listening sounds very good.. extremely clear, much better bass than out of computer. I really think I am going to love this unit._

 

Hi 
 Do you hear a big difference in sound quality when ef2 is connected to computer and listening with 580's compared to using ur ipod as source and ef2 just as an amp with the 580's.
 Thanks


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aryastark90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi 
 Do you hear a big difference in sound quality when ef2 is connected to computer and listening with 580's compared to using ur ipod as source and ef2 just as an amp with the 580's.
 Thanks_

 

I do not have any rca to ipod or 3.5mm cables so I dont know how it sounds when just using it as an amp, sorry. However it sounds very clear when using the DAC/AMP combo with the 580s.


----------



## boomy3555

When using RCA from any source it will be influenced by that source's DAC and AM, Whether it be a CD player, PC, or DAP. I find the EF2 DAC too quiet so I either use 3.5-RCA from headphone out ( I'm very happy with the headphone out), or add a my little Travagan's Red Micro Amp between the EF2 and my cans.


----------



## roker

I just got a Little Dot I+

 I'm not going to do a comparison review because I got rid of my EF2, but I will say based off memory, the EF2 stock had a punchier sound to it, but the Little Dot I+ has better volume control. I'm going to do some opamp and tube rolling and see if I can get the best of both worlds (volume and punch).


----------



## y3110w

Would you guys recommend this over D2+? I'm going to be using it mainly for my computer as I am currently listening through the on-board sound card. Although I do like the fact that D2 is portable, I still doubt I would bring it around with me often. I also have a mostly bass light headphones (SR80 and RE2) so would this pair well with them? Many thanks.


----------



## eam88

Just got the Hifiman EF2 in the mail










 Now I am looking for tubes, but I will probably give these a chance for a few weeks. This thing looks so amazing and out of the box sounds pretty good. It will probably improve over time. Definitely better than the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Also got a LOD to RCA from RAM to use with my ipod touch.


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the Hifiman EF2 in the mail










 Now I am looking for tubes, but I will probably give these a chance for a few weeks. This thing looks so amazing and out of the box sounds pretty good. It will probably improve over time. Definitely better than the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Also got a LOD to RCA from RAM to use with my ipod touch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I love the compact nature of it! It looks so sleek next to your laptop and monitor a real plus for a tight desktop area. I am still torn between this and a Little dot MKIII for my HD600's


----------



## Neuromantic

Compared to realtek onboard sound will this be warmer, a bit less fatiguing/harsh and less bright? Wanting to pair this up with HD650s and AH-D1001s. I suppose at least 150 hours of burn-in would be possible within the 14 day return time giving me no excuse to try this out for myself (as soon as I get the money)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the Hifiman EF2 in the mail




*Now I am looking for tubes*, but I will probably give these a chance for a few weeks. This thing looks so amazing and out of the box sounds pretty good. It will probably improve over time. Definitely better than the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Also got a LOD to RCA from RAM to use with my ipod touch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

6AK5 EF95 5654 CV4010 Mullard Tube Lots 10 Pcs 1000 avl - eBay (item 380066336046 end time Oct-16-09 13:09:02 PDT)

 Apparently, This Tube guy on ebay has a crap load (1000's)of 70's NOS Mullards for as little as 4.99 each( in Bulk). I just ordered 20 for 90.00 + shipping. (Best Offer)


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Neuromantic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compared to realtek onboard sound will this be warmer, a bit less fatiguing/harsh and less bright? Wanting to pair this up with HD650s and AH-D1001s. I suppose at least 150 hours of burn-in would be possible within the 14 day return time giving me no excuse to try this out for myself (as soon as I get the money)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 


 I have a Realtek card and it is much warmer that the onboard DAC of the EF2 and quite frankly I can't imagine driving a set of HD650's with this little guy. You could use it as a pre-amp and gear it up with a nice powerful Solid State amp for the Senns but otherwise there is just not enough volume. I felt that even the little brother EF1 was not powerful enough for my HD650's and it was stronger than the new EF2.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Realtek card and it is much warmer that the onboard DAC of the EF2 and quite frankly I can't imagine driving a set of HD650's with this little guy. You could use it as a pre-amp and gear it up with a nice powerful Solid State amp for the Senns but otherwise there is just not enough volume. I felt that even the little brother EF1 was not powerful enough for my HD650's and it was stronger than the new EF2._

 

Not enough volume?? My ipod shuffle can get my HD580s to blaring volumes on its own....


----------



## boomy3555

I've "been there done that" with the HD650's and both the EF-1 and the EF-2 and I stand by my impressions.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6AK5 EF95 5654 CV4010 Mullard Tube Lots 10 Pcs 1000 avl - eBay (item 380066336046 end time Oct-16-09 13:09:02 PDT)

 Apparently, This Tube guy on ebay has a crap load (1000's)of 70's NOS Mullards for as little as 4.99 each( in Bulk). I just ordered 20 for 90.00 + shipping. (Best Offer)_

 

I think those work with the little dot I+, are you looking to sell?


----------



## eam88

if you are looking to sell some of those tubes send me a PM


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6AK5 EF95 5654 CV4010 Mullard Tube Lots 10 Pcs 1000 avl - eBay (item 380066336046 end time Oct-16-09 13:09:02 PDT)

 Apparently, This Tube guy on ebay has a crap load (1000's)of 70's NOS Mullards for as little as 4.99 each( in Bulk). I just ordered 20 for 90.00 + shipping. (Best Offer)_

 

I have got some 405A NOS tubes from this seller some time ago. Seems to be fine. From 20 tubes, one was bad. (Unfortunately shipping back would have been more expensive then a tube.) [A little trick. Look at the feedback for the lowest accepted price.]


----------



## boomy3555

The buy it now for a pack of ten was 59.99 or best offer. I offered 45.00 each for two sets of ten and he went for it. I already have a single pair from the same seller and they took around 50 hrs to burn in but that is expected with NOS Mullards. I won't be selling the ones I got. I may lend out a few at meets to EF-2 and Little Dot owners but he has so many, if you want some bid! Message him if you want to buy less than ten. I'm sure he'll go for it.


----------



## Charles C

Dear friends,

 first if you use your notebook or pc please check on the usb port as the power distributed to each could be different, what i notice today since i am using my fujitsu u820 as source with foobar+wasapi, having only 1 usb port i always have to constantly plug/unplug to copy files from my main gear either by thumbdrive or external hdd. went out and finally bought a 7 port powered belkin usb hub.

 tried with the external hdd 500gb + 8gb flash drive while foobar is running, no problem shows that the bandwidth required for 16bit music is not 480mbps as per many suggested, am using high bit rate flac while copying files between the two storage.

 the most important improvement is that the clarity and soundstage improved quite tremendously including almost missing crackles and pops. usually 6-10 pops per song, but now maybe 3-4 pops very soft inaudible.actually am ok as it seems like i am listening to a vinyl hehe. I put this to the fujitsu unable to supply enough power to the usb port and being noisy as well. I realize that the Hifiman EF2 played through the Dac slightly louder now maybe due to the external supply from the belkin hub.

 another observation i found is that the usb cable do make difference, try to listen even to a 192kbps mp3 and you will notice more air and body in the singer's voice.

 am running all my gear through a Grado RS1i headphone.


----------



## mrarroyo

boomy3555 I have sent the eBay seller a quesion on the mullard's as matched pairs.


----------



## spookygonk

That is very compact. Might be what I need for my main PC rig, while leaving the DV332 to the bedroom.


----------



## aryastark90

I have decided to place an order for this amp to pair with my hd600. I also want to order some additional tubes to try out. I typed in 6AK5 in ebay and a whole bunch came up. Could someone please post what tubes are recommend, and some cheaper ones that I should be looking for.
 Thanks for any help.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Well, I have been using my new EF2/HD580 combo for a few weeks now and I will give an update. Overall I an very pleased with the increase in sound quality over my old unamped HD485. I go back and forth between the two and the 485 seems like there is a blanket between my ear and the driver; it sound muffled and unexciting. When I switch back to the HD580 the clarity they give is outstanding. The 485 is still a decent can, but the difference I hear makes me very confident about this purchase.

 The HD580 works pretty well over many types of music. I think its kind of silly to single out a particular genre to a certain headphones (unless you can afford to have a different headphone for every type of music) This EF2 combo works great for anything from orchestral and classic to Trance.


----------



## boomy3555

Crazy Carl... Stock Tubes?


----------



## donunus

has anyone compared the ef2 with the little dot mk2 yet? And even better... Little dot mk2 using mullard ef92 drivers and russian power tubes like the 6n6p. I seriously doubt anything can touch the ld mk2 at this price range. It totally slaughters all my past (more expensive) amps except maybe the MicroZotl. Its too long ago for me to remember exactly how that sounded.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crazy Carl... Stock Tubes?_

 

Yes, of course!


----------



## 2162

Would a Little dot MK III or EF2 produce better results with a HD 600 and keces 151 dac as a source?
 Was also wondering if these amps automatically bias the tubes.
 Thanks


----------



## donunus

I havent heard the ef2 but the ld mk2 with 6n6p/ef92 tubes are ridiculously good with the hd580


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Well, how about it? Keep it up, keep it up!

 I'm expecting my EF2 within the week. Can it improve the SR60? It's so efficeient!

 And do you think they ship on Sundays in China?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, how about it? Keep it up, keep it up!

 I'm expecting my EF2 within the week. Can it improve the SR60? It's so efficeient!

 And do you think they ship on Sundays in China?_

 

SR60 will improve with the EF2


----------



## migs008

If I bought this 210$ amp/DAC for an HD650 would I be happy?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *migs008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I bought this 210$ amp/DAC for an HD650 would I be happy?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You wont be sad. The EF1 will definitely be more powerful than the EF2 for the 300 ohm headphones, but the EF2 still beats almost all the portable amps (except maybe the 3MOVE) with the HD600/650. A DarkVoice 336i is a normal tube amp that sounds good with high impedance HD600/650 but not as good as the EF1/EF2 with everything else. I like the EF1/EF2 with HD600 a little more than when using a Grahm Slee NOVO, but the HD650 might be a good match with that too.

 In the end, the other amps I mentioned are all $299 - $375, and the EF2 are a great $189 amp for Sennheisers.


----------



## migs008

Damn it then! I'm taking the plunge! TO AMAZON!!!


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SR60 will improve with the HF2_

 

Haha, Freudian slip. Thanks, HPA. Your review and feedback have been very helpful.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, Freudian slip. Thanks, HPA. Your review and feedback have been very helpful._

 

Yeah, HF2 will improve the SR60 doesn't make much sense...


----------



## hedmaster

What about upgrading/changing the DAC chip?

 Or, any of the caps, etc.? I know it sounds good the way it is, but I am also curious about tinkering.

 Please don't tell me that I should just enjoy it, I do. But, we do have a great deal of tinkerers and and people here that can't leave well enough alone, lol! So, I am trying to tap into that pool of knowledge.

 Please feel free to chime in and give opinions, options, experiences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, and any help is appreciated,
 Matt


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hedmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about upgrading/changing the DAC chip?

 Or, any of the caps, etc.? I know it sounds good the way it is, but I am also curious about tinkering.

 Please don't tell me that I should just enjoy it, I do. But, we do have a great deal of tinkerers and and people here that can't leave well enough alone, lol! So, I am trying to tap into that pool of knowledge.

 Please feel free to chime in and give opinions, options, experiences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, and any help is appreciated,
 Matt_

 

You can upgrade the DAC chip with a simple plug in mod - plug a $120 SuperPro DAC707 into the RCA jacks.


----------



## hedmaster

Headphone Addict,

 Thanks for the tip. I am also interested in finding out if I can tweak it in the amp dept. because I also use it with my Keces 131 MKII DAC. 
 Any tips, or thoughts, even experiences?

 Thanks again,
 Matt


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hedmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Headphone Addict,

 Thanks for the tip. I am also interested in finding out if I can tweak it in the amp dept. because I also use it with my Keces 131 MKII DAC. 
 Any tips, or thoughts, even experiences?

 Thanks again,
 Matt_

 

Sorry, no idea.


----------



## hedmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, no idea._

 


 Thanks for the quick responses. No problem. I know this is such a new amp that people probably haven't messed with it much yet, but it's worth a shot, right?

 Headphoneaddict, you have been ridiculously helpful. I am really appreciative of your contributions to my understanding of all things audiophilia related. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Matt


----------



## migs008

Bought it on amazon during saturday.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only problem I had buying it was that I couldn't use my amex card for some reason. I used the card to buy a whole other stuff in my cart. But it won't work with the ef2. Saying something about my bank doesn't recognize the correct information on what I listed on it. Didn't stop the other things I bought though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hedmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the quick responses. No problem. I know this is such a new amp that people probably haven't messed with it much yet, but it's worth a shot, right?

 Headphoneaddict, you have been ridiculously helpful. I am really appreciative of your contributions to my understanding of all things audiophilia related. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Matt_

 

You're welcome!


----------



## grahamnp

I've been listening to my new EF2 for a few hours now and am quite happy with it paired with my RE0s and MS-1s. Thanks HeadphoneAddict!


----------



## Rainbow Randy

What do you guys say when you read "DAC"? Do you say the letters d-a-c, or do you say dack or dawk or dake or dase or dawcé? That question has bugged me for a long time.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Dack, like Jack


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I say DAAAAAAAACK, like a sheep.


----------



## migs008

Woot! Just got mine in under 4 days. I am really impressed with their shipping!

 Now using it currently with my Sennheiser PC350 and PX100.

 Up next is getting a good headphone. Any suggestions?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Sennheiser 555 for a $100 budget.


----------



## boomy3555

The Denon's just love this hybrid. as well as it's big brother the EF1. Personally, I don't think that they have enough power for the high impedence Senns but that's just MHO


----------



## migs008

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Denon's just love this hybrid. as well as it's big brother the EF1. Personally, I don't think that they have enough power for the high impedence Senns but that's just MHO_

 

I was thinking either the hd600's or a denon d5000. But I've heard that the denon is a little less than durable.


----------



## migs008

I'm just gonna go with a Denon D5000.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Big THANKS to HeadphoneAddict!


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *migs008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woot! Just got mine in under 4 days. I am really impressed with their shipping!

 Now using it currently with my Sennheiser PC350 and PX100.

 Up next is getting a good headphone. Any suggestions?_

 

Lucky. I ordered 11 days ago through Amazon. The delivery estimate was for it to get here by the 23rd, but that has passed. I await eagerly.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Okay, I got mine. I'm liking the sound out of the amp, but the DAC is presenting some constant background noise/hiss (grain?). Does this go away with burn-in? It only has 20 minutes on it.


----------



## FullTwisting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, I got mine. I'm liking the sound out of the amp, but the DAC is presenting some constant background noise/hiss (grain?). Does this go away with burn-in? It only has 20 minutes on it._

 

I have not noticed any background noise from mine.

 Are you sure it's the DAC itself and not the source or the headphones? (For reference, my headphones are Grado sr80i). If you switch the input toggle from "USB" to "CD", does that affect the noise at all?


----------



## Rainbow Randy

I switched between a cd player source (amp) and my pc (DAC/amp) on the same song. Noticeably loud hiss from the PC and DAC, but again, this after only about a half hour.

 There was a loud click the first few times through the headphones I switched the CD/USB button, but since it has switched silently. 

 Should it matter that I'm using a semi-crappy, 5 year-old PC? I'm currently listening via HD600s.

 UPDATE: I got out my much better/newer, 6 month-old laptop and hooked it up. Much better! No hiss. But shouldn't the computer sourse have little/no effect? I thought the DAC essentially bypasses the source's components, negating any impact on the sound from the source.

 UPDATE 2: I switched back to the old PC, and now the hiss seems to be gone. I don't know what's going on. Thanks, though. I'm liking the sound and will report back after some substantial burn-in.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I only hear a hiss when I go above like 95% of the volume knob, which would make me temporally deaf if I pushed play,


----------



## Crazy*Carl

.


----------



## grahamnp

I get background noise from the amp at volumes past 12 o' clock with my IEMs but it is only noticeable past 4 with my MS-1s. The noise gets softer if I switch CD input but I notice that there is some very soft music coming through in CD input but when the DAC is connected and music playing so I assume the noise is coming from the amp and not the DAC.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grahamnp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get background noise from the amp at volumes past 12 o' clock with my IEMs but it is only noticeable past 4 with my MS-1s. The noise gets softer if I switch CD input but I notice that there is some very soft music coming through in CD input but when the DAC is connected and music playing so I assume the noise is coming from the amp and not the DAC._

 

lol, mine becomes painfully loud after 12 o' clock with 300ohm hd580s! I am usually around 10-11 max. In fact right now its early and the morning and they are slightly less than 9.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

More PC problems. After restarting my computer, it reverted back to using my sound card and no longer recognizes the DAC (it's an "unknown device"). It also doesn't recognize any drivers for it. 

 I tried Troubleshooting, but that has not helped. Do I just need to find the driver online for the DAC to be recognized? If someone could point me to the driver, that would be great.


----------



## boomy3555

Look in your Control Panel (or rt click "My Computer" > hardware > device manager > USB ) under sound devices for "USB Speakers". highlight and Apply.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Under device manager > Universal Serial Bus controllers (no "USB"), there is no option for "USB Speakers". Under USB controllers, the DAC seems to be identified as Unkown Device.

 When enabling the DAC previously, I would go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Hardware, and under Hardware there would be an option for USB Speakers (the DAC). That option is no longer there.

 If it matters, I'm using Windows XP.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

It states there is no driver installed for the device. Therefore, if I manually install the driver myself, would that not solve the problem?

 But I can't seem to find the driver!


----------



## boomy3555

I don't think it needs a special driver. That's why it thinks it's speakers. Right clicking on unknown device> uninstalling> removing USB plug> restart computer> plug USB back in once computer is restarted? I know if I switch between the EF2 and the Maverick it will make me restart with both unplugged and then plug in the one I want to use.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Under device manager > Universal Serial Bus controllers (no "USB"), there is no option for "USB Speakers". Under USB controllers, the DAC seems to be identified as Unkown Device.

 When enabling the DAC previously, I would go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Hardware, and under Hardware there would be an option for USB Speakers (the DAC). That option is no longer there.

 If it matters, I'm using Windows XP._

 

Sometimes windows corrupts it's own drivers. Before I switched to Mac I would find it helpful to go to the system > device manager > and find the USB device with the red x or yellow ! and then remove the device and let windows reinstall a driver for it.


----------



## zmatrix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Under device manager > Universal Serial Bus controllers (no "USB"), there is no option for "USB Speakers". Under USB controllers, the DAC seems to be identified as Unkown Device.

 When enabling the DAC previously, I would go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Hardware, and under Hardware there would be an option for USB Speakers (the DAC). That option is no longer there.

 If it matters, I'm using Windows XP._

 

Is the DAC connected to a hub or to the front USB ports? Sometimes, moving your USB device to another USB port will help. Try to disconnect it and reconnect it, preferably to a port directly on the back of the motherboard.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zmatrix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the DAC connected to a hub or to the front USB ports? Sometimes, moving your USB device to another USB port will help. Try to disconnect it and reconnect it, preferably to a port directly on the back of the motherboard._

 

After many hours of stressing, searching the web, and making no progress, I finally switched to a different usb port. That's all it took. Agh. Thanks for the help, guys.

 Glory has returned.


----------



## grahamnp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* 
_lol, mine becomes painfully loud after 12 o' clock with 300ohm hd580s! I am usually around 10-11 max. In fact right now its early and the morning and they are slightly less than 9._

 

Haha, no I just cranked it all the way up to see how loud the background hiss could be, no way I listen to music that loud. Usually 9-10 o'clock for my RE0s and 10-11 for my MS-1s.


----------



## yukihiro

Do I have sensitive ears or something? I can't use the EF2 with my headphones at anymore than 9 o'clock and that's with the volume on foobar already turned down about 5db (~75% on the volume slide). I know all my headphones are easily driven, but I've seen others talk about using the EF2 with similar headphones.

 On the other hand... I let me friend try my SR325i + EF2 and he cranked it up to the 12 o'clock position. 

 I still love my EF2 though. I love how it sounds.


----------



## boomy3555

Yukhiro,
 One of the best things about the EF series is the ability to "roll" the tubes to change the flavour. There's a guy on eBay that has a large source of Mullard CV4010 tubes (read back a few pages). 4.99 each in bulk. Tung Sol is another one of my favorite brands.. I've tried many new Russian tubes for this and the EF1 and although they're pretty cheap I found them lacking in depth and don't use them anymore.


----------



## yukihiro

Are you referring to my post? I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I love the way my EF2 sounds. I'm currently using a pair of Raytheon 6AK5W tubes, which I find to be very nice with my SR325i. I tried some other tubes I got from eBay (forgot the brand) and didn't really like them much at all. The stock tubes were actually fairly decent. By the way, my previous post was referring to the volume of the EF2.


----------



## boomy3555

Just suggesting some of my favorites for tube rolling. No comment on the volume


----------



## mmd8x28

I'm still waiting for my EF2's. Ordered them a week ago, and the tracking number still doesn't work..


----------



## Rainbow Randy

No worries, mmd. The lucky ones get it in under a week. Mine took a week and a half. Do tracking numbers work for international shipping?


----------



## mmd8x28

Well USPS parses the number correctly, as if it's in their format, but it shows "no records"..

 I know the package is on it's way, but damn, USPS tracking really sucks.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Mine only took about 6 days to arrive from ordering it.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know the package is on it's way, but damn, USPS tracking really sucks._

 

China EMS? Try this: China Courier Service Corporation - The Whole-path EMS Tracking Result. One usually has to use the tracker of the originating postal system (until the parcel is registered in the destination country).


----------



## mmd8x28

Got this:
 Online Tracking　
 　

 信息提示:No information for this tracking.


----------



## Blacky2

I ordered this item from amazon 6 days ago.According to the seller, it shipped the same day ( i received the tracking number) but until today i was not able to track it via USPA or EMS.
 Today it`s finally show in the tracking system


----------



## Rainbow Randy

To recap, the 6AK5 is a good, cheap upgrade from the stock tubes, right?

 I've never bought/rolled tubes before. I found 6AK5 tubes for $5 each at thetubestore's site. Would these be matched? Would these tubes not be much of an upgrade if they're not matched?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChiComm4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To recap, the 6AK5 is a good, cheap upgrade from the stock tubes, right?

 I've never bought/rolled tubes before. I found 6AK5 tubes for $5 each at thetubestore's site. Would these be matched? Would these tubes not be much of an upgrade if they're not matched?_

 

I have a set of Raytheon 6AK5 that are worth about $40, so the cost and quality will vary depending on what brand you find and how old they are. Only the seller can tell you what brand he is selling, and if they are matched or not. The stock chinese tubes are not bad, and if you find $5 tubes they might be about the same as stock.


----------



## mmd8x28

*sigh* new week, still no tracking.. I really want to know where that package is. I emailed head-direct, no response..


----------



## hasanyuceer

Is anyone using K701 with EF2?

 How is the synergy between them? Does sound become too mellow?


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone using K701 with EF2?

 How is the synergy between them? Does sound become too mellow?_

 

I've been wanting an opinion on this as well.


----------



## mmd8x28

Now I'm worried. Nearly two weeks now, and still can not track this package..

 No response to emails..

 C'mon, this is unbelievable. Non of you guys seem to have had this problem.


----------



## homzik

My EF2 got shipped from China to Poland via DHL in just 6 days and was fully trackable. 

 Yet, there's another issue, namely, I have to move the volume knob to the limit in order to hear anything... Faulty power supply or something else?


----------



## mmd8x28

Well I'm going to give it a full month to arrive, from shipping date, then i have no choice but to file a claim with paypal..


----------



## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *homzik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My EF2 got shipped from China to Poland via DHL in just 6 days and was fully trackable. 

 Yet, there's another issue, namely, I have to move the volume knob to the limit in order to hear anything... Faulty power supply or something else?_

 

Make sure you have the windows volume at 100%.


----------



## homzik

100% sure


----------



## nttg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I'm worried. Nearly two weeks now, and still can not track this package..

 No response to emails..

 C'mon, this is unbelievable. Non of you guys seem to have had this problem._

 


 i'm in the same boat as you. It has past 3 weeks now.


----------



## mmd8x28

I sent another email. I better get a response this time. This is my first foray into headphone amps and so far, the purchasing part is being hell right now..


----------



## hasanyuceer

Also curious about anyone tried opamp rolling? 

 I'm trying OPA2111 now, I realize some change but i couldnt solve whether it is my brain or the opamp.


----------



## boomy3555

Also go into Start > All Programs > accessories > entertainment > volume Control and check the "Wave" volume level as well

 I'm assuming your using in DAC mode?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *homzik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100% sure_


----------



## homzik

everything turned out fine, my mouse buttons that I used to change the volume with, caused the problems changing the volume ; if I set the volume to 100% and operate only by the knob, the sound is loud


----------



## boomy3555

Cheers.... I have a Logitech wireless VX Nano mouse and although it's great having all of the player controls in the mouse, there are so many places to look when things go wacky !


----------



## mmd8x28

Got word back about where it is.

 It never even left China yet, it's still there, and the tracking number changed.

 Gah! I hate how carriers play these games with packages, when it's "EXPRESS" shipping..


----------



## mmd8x28

It arrived. It def. will need a breakin. Out of the box it sounds a little weakish, but seems as I play it more it gets "wider"..

 Though, I have the volume control 2 o clock position and Mac OS X set with volume at max, it's not "loud loud" but decent loud..

 I assume that'll improve with breakin too?


----------



## boomy3555

Does MAC have a seperate .Wav volume setting? or a USB input control. I've heard of others having to set the volume in the USB settings but as I have only PC, I don't know what could help a MAC.


----------



## mmd8x28

No, the way a Mac sound system works, is it has outputs and an input, and only a master control per each.. Every app has it's own software-volume control though, but it's up..






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/ef21.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/ef22.jpg

 I just tried cranking it to max, and nearly blew my ear drums out. Well it does get loud, volume control logarithmic and not linear? Seems to be that way.. But soundstage is starting to expand as I continue to listen, so tubes are still breaking in..

 EDIT: On the Mac, it defaulted to 100% volume too, not 50% like Windows...


----------



## boomy3555

Cool Rotary Phone.


----------



## mmd8x28

Haha, thanks. I'm in the middle of restoring it, it's a model 500 western electric..

 Anyways, my EF2 is starting to slowly get louder and louder. I'm going to assume it's just because the tubes are so new...

 Listening to accoustic guitars on this thing is like, better than listening in person. There's a quality to this thing, even on a song with an accoustic guitar with a bassy kick drum in the background..


----------



## boomy3555

There was a seller on eBay that had a ton of Mullard CV4010's, but apparently someone bought them all up. What Cans do you listen with?


----------



## mmd8x28

Radioshack headphones, over the ear types, that were expensive too (expensive even for ratshack)..

 Since my layoff, I really can't afford better headphones right now, but they seem to do the trick..

 I'm watching a movie on the EF2 and these headphones right now. Even movies are benefitting from the EF2..


----------



## FrozenGecko

Ordered a EF2 from Head-Direct 2 days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait!!


----------



## Juggels

I ordered my EF2 last week and received it last friday (gotta love DHL Express shipping, it's WAY faster than regular shipping)...

 Along with my other purchase (HD595) it sits very nicely on my desk, so now they're both getting some overnight hours of pink noise:


----------



## mmd8x28

I ordered my EF2 on October 24th, it shipped out on November 5th (according to the shipping label)..

 I did ask if it was available and was told yes. But oh well, I finally received it..


----------



## mmd8x28

Btw, my power light don't appear to work, or well, it does, but it's SOOOO dim you have to look straight on to it. From my sitting position with it on the desk, you can't actually see the light on or not..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Many people complain all the time about how bright amps can be in a dim room, so maybe they made it dimmer for a reason?


----------



## mmd8x28

If that was the case, I'm sure that USB light inside that's a super bright orange wouldn't be there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, I was just asking... Wanted to make sure it wasn't a defect or something.


----------



## daigo

I ordered my EF2 last Monday and I was able to pick mine up from the postal annex here in SF today. Sounds pretty good so far with my ATH-A900 so far but I'm always hoping for more with time


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It arrived. It def. will need a breakin. Out of the box it sounds a little weakish, but seems as I play it more it gets "wider"..

 Though, I have the volume control 2 o clock position and Mac OS X set with volume at max, it's not "loud loud" but decent loud..

 I assume that'll improve with breakin too?_

 

You need to max out your computer volume and the application volume, mine typical is about 10-11 o clock.


----------



## mmd8x28

It is maxed out on OS X and iTunes. So far, the headphone port on my Mac Pro is louder than the EF2 (just not as warm and wide sounding).. On an old 80's song I had to max out the EF2, just to get it loud to my liking..

 EDIT: I should note, that my entire library is de-loudness war'ed..


----------



## mmd8x28

On a side note, I'm curious as to how the tubes are used on the EF2. As I am usually a Fisher 800c user (so not completely a stranger to tubes), I just wonder this.

 Are each tube for L and R channels respectively, or do both tubes amp both L and R channels? (hope I worded that clearly)..


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a side note, I'm curious as to how the tubes are used on the EF2. As I am usually a Fisher 800c user (so not completely a stranger to tubes), I just wonder this.

 Are each tube for L and R channels respectively, or do both tubes amp both L and R channels? (hope I worded that clearly).._

 

Pull a tube and test it?

 Also you shouldn't be having to crank it to that high of volume. Do what you can to sit a bit lower. I hope your not just killing your hearing listening to loud!

 also what is this you mentioned: de-loudness war'ed


----------



## mmd8x28

I didn't want to pull a tube and run it like that, thought i'd damage something, but that might just be me thinking about the higher amps that had transformers for each channel...

 Well I have been known to have slight hearing problems. I mean, I can hear the bugs outside chirping right now at night, but as to how well other people hear them than me, I don't know.

 When I say de-loudness war'ed, what I mean is this. Back in the 80's when CD's were new, music was at a respectible level on the disc itself, no clipping. But every album I have bought today, clips so loud, it's off the charts.. What I do is, while I can't restore the sound lost from the clipping of modern CD's, I tone down the volume to the average of a CD from the 80's... So it's not blaring loud when I go from an 80's song to a modern song. Even songs that are the same but re-released get louder from this effect..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...1at85406PM.png

 Top left is an 80's song, while bottom right is a modern rock song. Just SO much louder and clipped beyond belief...


----------



## mmd8x28

Well, oh great, my EF2 just died by itself. Both tubes are no longer lit, but the power light is on.. No sound whatsoever.

 Great, I waited all that time for it to die on the 2nd day..

 EDIT: Fixed it temporarily. the power supply failed..

 EDIT2: Powersupply died again.. This PSU is toast.. Don't know if I want to even bother getting it replaced, just build a better one...


----------



## mmd8x28

Took a picture of my EF2, so beautiful on camera... I built my own PSU to replace the burnt out one.. My PSU uses heavier wires..

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs51/f/20...weredragon.jpg


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Where is the volume knob for typical listening (assuming everything on your computer is maxed where it should be)


----------



## mmd8x28

Where it's seen in my pic.. If USB, louder..


----------



## mmd8x28

Holy crap my EF2 just woke up. Was listening to Daft Punk Alive 07, and the bass slowly started creeping up, now it's just like being at their freakin concerts..

 AWESOME!

 Now to get some 1945 NOS 6AK5's from Western Electric, military grade. That'd be awesome, WE tubes next to my era exact WE phone..


----------



## FrozenGecko

Okay, so it was 'Despatch from Sorting Center' yesterday. Could someone tell me from that point how long it took for their EF2 to arrive?


----------



## boomy3555

Can't even begin to guess. Especially since you, and many head-fi'ers choose not to list thier location in thier Signature. Although express isn't exactly overnight from the East, it usually arrives in just a day or two after it hits US customs. From San Fancisco Customs to my door was two days. My Maverick came in one day Via DHL.


----------



## mmd8x28

Once mine arrives in NYC's ISC, it came within 2 days...


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Mine was only 1 day from Chicago. I had the thing literally 6 days after ordering.


----------



## daigo

I live ~3 miles from the SF customs postal annex so they attempted delivery of my EF2 the day after it cleared customs. I wasn't home so I had to go pick it up at the annex the following day.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Has anyone tried their EF2 with a K701 or DT880 (250/600)? Comments?
 I don't remember reading any detailed comments about either cans with this amp.


----------



## Jazz9

Same question but with the K601.
 Finding a good budget amp for those cans is a major pain in the ***


----------



## boomy3555

I tried out the 702's with the EF1 and EF 2 and although the EF1 is more pwoerful that it's little brother, I found them both lacking the power the 702's were crying for. The AKG's are a sort of a pickle. Although they are not a high impedence can they really need to be amped. There are two amps in this range that seem to have enough power for the AKG's. The Maverick/Xheng Sheng,Grant Fidelity which has a tube pre-amp section. ( Headphone out is Solid state only) and the Zero DacAmp which is all solid state although my Zero with the "earth" HDAM comes pretty close to the EF2's "Flavour". They can be upgraded in many ways and configured differently including OPamps and HDAM's. I have not had experiences with the Little Dots or Darkvoices so someone else would have to chime in with opinions of those as a tube aternative.


----------



## Jazz9

Well the Zero (opa627/lt1364) is what I'm trying to upgrade from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I take it the EF2 isn't a good idea then.


----------



## boomy3555

Not a powerful Hybrid but my first chioce for "Newbee Tubee's". I would research the Darkvoices, Little Dots, and the Jade. They seem to be more powerful tube amps. sonething the AKG 7XX's can use. You may also want to try an HDAM upgrade first. 40.00 to 60.00 and easy DIY. The "Earth" I ordered with the Zero comes pretty close to the EF-2's Tube flavour. The Maverick is said to be getting Opamp sockets and should be compatable with HDAMs and of course the Compass is the Signature HDAM amp.


----------



## FrozenGecko

Got my EF2 this morning!!

 I used it for about 10-15 mins before class. At the time I was using it at about 8/9 volume. I came back from class and started using it again. I am noticing that it is getting louder(using at 6/9 now) and I am seeing more glow in the tubes.

 Just wondering if anyone knows a good place to get a longer usb cable and power cable for the ef2 from.


----------



## mmd8x28

Well personally I'd look at a stronger PSU. My PSU burnt out, and when I say that, I mean the primary windings wires cooked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...gon/burned.jpg

 Had to resort to making my own PSU for the thing..

 PCCables.com is where I get all my cables from. Nice and cheap, sold locally to where I live too..


----------



## FrozenGecko

Ahh! Yeah. Sounds like a good idea =p

 anyone know what the end of the usb cable that plugs into the EF2 is called? i'm guessing is Type B end? How many pins is it? I just wanna be sure I get the right thing =p

 I might have found it... please confirm http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

 Anyone know a good place to get a better/new power adapter? monoprice only has like 2 =p I also didn't see it on PCCables.com


----------



## mmd8x28

I was actually referring PCCables.com for USB cables. But the USB cable you chose will be fine.. Just remember, USB is digital, and the EF2 uses the slow link speeds as it's USB audio spec, you really don't need a high end USB cable. The signal is either on or off, so it can't really change audio quality.. Now for RCA analog jacks, that's another story (and I found the RCA input far louder).

 For a PSU, please remember it's AC, 16v... Now, I don't know how the EF2 works, but it looks like it has rectifying diodes, then leads to a 7812 to be regulated to 12v DC..

 But still, say 16v AC.. As for amperage, more is always fine, it can only take what it needs, but never go under amp...

 I think one thing that needs to be remembered, is vacuum tubes draw 2-3 times their normal current when warming up, thus a strong PSU is highly recommended..

 There's some 16.5v AC PSU's used for alarm systems. Those should be sufficient. Though over voltage isn't good, .5v really shouldn't harm anything, especially since there's a 7812 regulator inside.


----------



## FrozenGecko

Wow!! Thanks mmd8x28 for all the great infomation!!

 I was rather ignorant but now I have a much better idea what to aim for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks.

 I figured the monoprice cable is only a 1.27$ so it's not that fancy =p. I just want something longer.


----------



## DragonReborn

Hi, I'm a total noob in head-fi and I need some help!

 I'm thinking of getting a pair of k702's and I understand I need an amp. At first the EF2 seemed like a good choice, since I would like an usb dac as well, but it seems it lacks the power needed to drive the 702's. I considered getting a 336se or CanAmp and maybe wait with the dac or buy a cheap one, but I'd rather not wait. The Zero 627U seemed like an option for me, but it lacks analog input and I'm not sure of it worthy of the 702's. So after some more thinking I thought I maybe buy another headphone with the EF2, or maybe a different setup altogether. 400-700


----------



## boomy3555

What kind of sound are you wanting and what genre do you like. The Denon line is made in heaven for the EF1 and EF2, but they are a quite fun and flavourful sound..
 Not too many people have expressed thier views of the EF2 and the Grados but I know there a few. So first, if you can give us a bit on your existing gear and tastes, maybe we can ellaborate.


----------



## DragonReborn

Well, i don't have any gear worth mentioning. I'll be using my laptop as source until I can get a decent cd-player. I listen to many kinds of music (rock,metal, jazz, electronic +) but I want something that will do well with classical. There will also be some and gaming, but this is not a priority (especially since I use Logitech z-5500 for surround, and I'm guessing there are limits to what I can get out of it). As you may understand my wallet is not of the big kind, and my interest for headphones began only recently, when I realized I can't afford a good stereo. Not yet anyway, since I got a Pioneer monitor that needs to be paid=/ 

 But I want to buy something I can keep when I get better equipment.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DragonReborn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I'm a total noob in head-fi and I need some help!

 I'm thinking of getting a pair of k702's and I understand I need an amp. At first the EF2 seemed like a good choice, since I would like an usb dac as well, but it seems it lacks the power needed to drive the 702's. I considered getting a 336se or CanAmp and maybe wait with the dac or buy a cheap one, but I'd rather not wait. The Zero 627U seemed like an option for me, but it lacks analog input and I'm not sure of it worthy of the 702's. So after some more thinking I thought I maybe buy another headphone with the EF2, or maybe a different setup altogether. 400-700_

 

I had a pair of K701 for a week back in 2007 that I sold because my iBasso D1 and *DV336i could not drive the K701 properly* and they were fairly bass-lite (like the ATH-W5000 were bad on 336i too). Grados, Denon and Ultrasone are a great match for the EF2 as well as most of my IEM, and even HD600 and HD800 seem better driven with the EF2 than most of my portable amps. I don't have a K702 to try with it though. 

 The EF2 cannot drive my K1000 or my SFI orthodynamics, nor could it properly drive the Head-direct HE-5 orthodynamics, but everything else I mentioned seems to work. So, you might consider the Grado HF-2 or RS-1, Denon D7000, or Ultrasone Pro 2500 or Pro 750 (never heard the Pro 900), and don't write-off the HD600 either. I forgot to mention that the ATH-A900 that I have are recabled and dampened inside and they are very nice with the EF2 as well as my stock ATH-ESW10.


----------



## DragonReborn

Thank you very much, that will help me alot=)


----------



## daigo

For those who have tried rolling new tubes in the EF2, do they make a significant difference? 

 Due to head-fi's influence, I took the plunge on an ebay lot of 6AK5 (pairs of sylvania, GE, and RCA) tubes from a seller with very good feedback and pic of the lot including all the boxes for the various tubes for a very reasonable price and was curious which of these would be the best to try out first.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daigo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who have tried rolling new tubes in the EF2, do they make a significant difference? 

 Due to head-fi's influence, I took the plunge on an ebay lot of 6AK5 (pairs of sylvania, GE, and RCA) tubes from a seller with very good feedback and pic of the lot including all the boxes for the various tubes for a very reasonable price and was curious which of these would be the best to try out first._

 

The EF2 sounds nice with the stock tubes and worth the price, but with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes it becomes more refined and balanced and sounds like a $400 amp.


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Anyone know of a good online retailer of high quality (Raytheon, other brands?) 6ak5s?

 NOTE: I do not know high quality tubes. I'm hoping whatever $20-50 can get will be a nice upgrade.


----------



## Mr C

Ok well I ordered mine yesterday, lets see how long it takes to reach the land of wine and cheese.
 I'm very interested in a online tube retailer too, anyone knows of any tubes that'll give richer bass to my hd580?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

After reading a few complaints about the EF2's USB DAC being too quiet, I hooked mine back up to the USB of my Macbook Pro and to the Pico USB DAC-only that I normally use, and switched between them. The EF2 driving my HD600 will play quite loud and higher than I will ever listen to it with either the built-in USB or the Pico DAC hooked up to the RCA. The Pico DAC-only does let the EF2 play about 3-4 dB louder than the internal DAC, but there is there is more than sufficient volume with the internal DAC. 

 And the EF2 will play the HD600 louder than my portable USB DAC amps. The 3MOVE and Vivid V1 (which I have not compared side by side in a while) can play fairly loud with the HD600, but none of the others can play that loud and I'm not sure the 3MOVE would match the volumes of the EF2.


----------



## mmd8x28

I took some pics of the EF2 in the studio. Volume control is in movie listening for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/EF2/ef21.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/EF2/ef22.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/EF2/ef23.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/EF2/ef24.jpg


----------



## Nankai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading a few complaints about the EF2's USB DAC being too quiet, I hooked mine back up to the USB of my Macbook Pro and to the Pico USB DAC-only that I normally use, and switched between them. The EF2 driving my HD600 will play quite loud and higher than I will ever listen to it with either the built-in USB or the Pico DAC hooked up to the RCA. The Pico DAC-only does let the EF2 play about 3-4 dB louder than the internal DAC, but there is there is more than sufficient volume with the internal DAC. 

 And the EF2 will play the HD600 louder than my portable USB DAC amps. The 3MOVE and Vivid V1 (which I have not compared side by side in a while) can play fairly loud with the HD600, but none of the others can play that loud and I'm not sure the 3MOVE would match the volumes of the EF2._

 

Actually computer system volume control will be automatically set at 50% after EF2 USB just connected. Users need to maximize the system volume to 100%.


----------



## daigo

I run the EF2 from my computer (usb audio out at 100%) and I listen to music using foobar2000 (volume at max) at ~10-11 o'clock position being right on the border of being too loud for my headphones.


----------



## sithlord32786

man! This amp is pretty much exactly what I want for a desktop amp...a tube/dac combo. Right now I'm running my DT770/80's out of a BSG 9v cmoy from my stock integrated sound card. Needless to say, it's really unacceptable. The sound is clear but whenever I want to turn the volume up to a decent level, I get distorted bass and I know my Beyer's are capable of good clean bass and overall better sound. The only problem is, I didn't really want to spend this much. Is there anything like this amp that's any cheaper or is this pretty much it?


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nankai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually computer system volume control will be automatically set at 50% after EF2 USB just connected. Users need to maximize the system volume to 100%._

 

Macintosh's default to 100%.. I tried all my Macs, the EF2 defaulted to 100%, not 50%.. Including a fresh installed Mac...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sithlord32786* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man! This amp is pretty much exactly what I want for a desktop amp...a tube/dac combo. Right now I'm running my DT770/80's out of a BSG 9v cmoy from my stock integrated sound card. Needless to say, it's really unacceptable. The sound is clear but whenever I want to turn the volume up to a decent level, I get distorted bass and I know my Beyer's are capable of good clean bass and overall better sound. The only problem is, I didn't really want to spend this much. Is there anything like this amp that's any cheaper or is this pretty much it?_

 

This is pretty much it in terms of low price desktop DAC/amp, and for the price it's a steal. It gets even better with upgraded tubes, and even more better with an upgraded external DAC like Pico, SuperPro DAC707, iBasso D4 or D10. (The internal DAC is a Burr Brown PCM2702E Japan like in the Meier 3MOVE or Practical Devices XM5, and it's an upgrade over most PC soundcards, but it can be easily improved upon).


----------



## daigo

I just received a lot of 6AK5 tubes that I won on ebay for $12 shipped. Six GE, 2 Sylvania gold pins, and 4 RCA's in their cardboard boxes in pretty good condition. 

 With the GE 6AK5 matched pair (labeled by the seller) in the EF 2, I had to turn the volume knob down from where I had it at last night for listening to the same jazz tracks I last listened to. Looking forward to trying the others as well!


----------



## FrozenGecko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daigo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received a lot of 6AK5 tubes that I won on ebay for $12 shipped. Six GE, 2 Sylvania gold pins, and 4 RCA's in their cardboard boxes in pretty good condition. 

 With the GE 6AK5 matched pair (labeled by the seller) in the EF 2, I had to turn the volume knob down from where I had it at last night for listening to the same jazz tracks I last listened to. Looking forward to trying the others as well!_

 

Besides the volume, have you noticed any differences?


----------



## daigo

I'll get back to you after a few days


----------



## jrah

How do these compare with the Little Dot MKII for only the amp part?


----------



## sithlord32786

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is pretty much it in terms of low price desktop DAC/amp, and for the price it's a steal. It gets even better with upgraded tubes, and even more better with an upgraded external DAC like Pico, SuperPro DAC707, iBasso D4 or D10. (The internal DAC is a Burr Brown PCM2702E Japan like in the Meier 3MOVE or Practical Devices XM5, and it's an upgrade over most PC soundcards, but it can be easily improved upon)._

 

Thanks for the input.

 Well, if I got a better DAC like the D2+ or D4, I wouldn't really need to get the EF2 then. In that case I could get a different amp and just pair the amp and DAC together. The only reason I was really attracted to the EF2 was because it was an all-in-one solution, but if the DAC in the iBasso's are really that much better than the integrated DAC in the EF2 then I just might have to get one of those and then a tube amp by itself. I could then use the iBasso for portable purposes. The only problem is that now I'm spending even more money that I would have with just the EF2, but I guess, you get what you pay for.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sithlord32786* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the input.

 Well, if I got a better DAC like the D2+ or D4, I wouldn't really need to get the EF2 then. In that case I could get a different amp and just pair the amp and DAC together. The only reason I was really attracted to the EF2 was because it was an all-in-one solution, but if the DAC in the iBasso's are really that much better than the integrated DAC in the EF2 then I just might have to get one of those and then a tube amp by itself. I could then use the iBasso for portable purposes. The only problem is that now I'm spending even more money that I would have with just the EF2, but I guess, you get what you pay for._

 

Sounds good - the thing I like about the EF2 is it's balanced sound and more power than a portable, for the cost of a portable, but with desktop quality sound. What I don't like is that some people assume that if they wont use the DAC then it isn't worth buying, when I still think it is hard to beat as a tube hybrid for under $200. Others (that I have heard) to consider are the EF1 (or it's replacement, the EF5), Cavalli CTH, Millett Starving Student. I've not heard the LD amps.

 I find the EF2 has a precise enough volume pot to use with IEM, as did the CTH that wiatrob built and let me review. The Cavalli is great if you can build your own amp, and is very tunable with 6.3v and 12.6v tubes. The one I tried had a nice volume pot. The EF1 was very good and only slightly behind the CTH, but good enough that I sold my DV336i after I got the EF1. It is more powerful than the EF2 and responds to tube rolling as well. The EF1 volume control was not as precise and was not good for IEM, but I understand that has been corrected in newer versions while mine was made very early in production. I actually traded the EF1 for the EF2 because I liked it so much. Our Millett SSH from the rds kits has the same issue with an imprecise volume pot, making ours a poor choice for IEM, but as a DIY amp you can choose a better volume pot if you need. 

 Obviously there are a lot of desktop amps in this $200-400 price range to consider, including SS like Travagans and Firestone or Nuforce. But I still use my EF2 often with my Macbook and Pico DAC, even though I could restrict myself to only my most expensive amps. If you can't DIY and can't spend $600 on a Woo amp, I tend to think of the EF1 and EF2 as my preferred recommendations. The Qinpu A-3 is another one I reviewed and like about as much, especially for driving Stax transformers.


----------



## mmd8x28

Wow, I just found a song in my iTunes library that seemingly has no bass at all on the EF2 (and only a sliver of bass on the computers own headphone jack).

 It's Gorillaz - 19-2000 (Soul Child Remix)

 There just seems to be no bass, and nearly every other song from them has pumping bass on the EF2's.. Don't know if that's the intention of the song or not. The youtube (stereo versions if you can't find it) are like that too, no bass..

 Is it just me, or is this the song just bassless?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I just found a song in my iTunes library that seemingly has no bass at all on the EF2 (and only a sliver of bass on the computers own headphone jack).

 It's Gorillaz - 19-2000 (Soul Child Remix)

 There just seems to be no bass, and nearly every other song from them has pumping bass on the EF2's.. Don't know if that's the intention of the song or not. The youtube (stereo versions if you can't find it) are like that too, no bass..

 Is it just me, or is this the song just bassless?_

 

Don't know, but it seems to be that way for you regardless of source or amp, so it must be the song.


----------



## mmd8x28

Wonder why they'd make a remix of a song with no bass, seems like something you wouldn't want to do.


----------



## FrozenGecko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonder why they'd make a remix of a song with no bass, seems like something you wouldn't want to do._

 

It would be a slammin' song if it had a bit of bass/beat put into it. I tried it with my DT770 > T4 > CPU and there is alittle bass, but it doesn't come out at all.


----------



## mmd8x28

The only way I can sneak bass is using the iTunes EQ and making a very high bass curve, but then it sounds kinda "breathy" as if it's fake..

 The original version of 19/2000 has bass, don't know why it was lost in the remix.


----------



## mmd8x28

I'm curious right now, why the hell are cheap rat shack headphones working SO well, when used on the EF2? I'd expect "the weakest link", which would be these headphones, but my god, these headphones put out some sound and undistorted bass, despite other people complaining it lacks on bass..

 Hmm....

 Not even a model number written on them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...headphones.jpg


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious right now, why the hell are cheap rat shack headphones working SO well, when used on the EF2? I'd expect "the weakest link", which would be these headphones, but my god, these headphones put out some sound and undistorted bass, despite other people complaining it lacks on bass..

 Hmm....

 Not even a model number written on them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...headphones.jpg_

 

Too bad they aren't the Pro 30 orthodynamics.


----------



## mmd8x28

Man, that reminds me. My father has some old Shure headphones (and by old, I mean like, when I was born old).. Same size as these, including the large headphone jack.

 They are severely damaged from abuse over the years, and the foam pads are flaking all over the place. Only one side works, and is likely a wire..

 Should I bother to repair it?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, that reminds me. My father has some old Shure headphones (and by old, I mean like, when I was born old).. Same size as these, including the large headphone jack.

 They are severely damaged from abuse over the years, and the foam pads are flaking all over the place. Only one side works, and is likely a wire..

 Should I bother to repair it?_

 

Probably not - but there may be some guys in the orthodynamic thread looking for a broken cheap donor phone to create a Frankenfone.


----------



## RichieLitt

How would this amp do with the HFI 780?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would this amp do with the HFI 780?_

 

I think it would de very well. Don't have mine anymore though (traded my ALO recabled ones for a Gibson Explorer).


----------



## DragonReborn

Maybe this isn't the right thread, but I'll try anyway.

 Is there any point getting the d7000 over the d2000 with the EF2?
 I read somewhere the d7000 needs great sources to excel, so I'm not sure it will be worth the 400 extra.


----------



## boomy3555

I personally don't feel that the 7K is worth getting over the 5K but definitely the 5K at least. As far as compatabliltiy with the EF2? ALL of the Denons have a great synergy with the EF's Both 1 and 2. and probably the New EF5 but we've not heard back on that review yet.And probably with most tube hybrids. The Denon signature is quite "Flavourful" and "Fun" and the tubes bring out the most in that flavour while still having the Solid State stage for the low impedence Cans.


----------



## DragonReborn

Thanks! Retail for the 7k is about $1750 here in Norway, but I have a friend living in the U.S. who can bring it for me when he come home for xmas. (Amazon $700) I'll save alot of money! 

 Then again, I'll save alot on the 5k as well ($1050 in Norway, $420 Amazon) and I'm not sure I'm prepared to pay that much if there isn't much difference besides the nice box.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I would take the D7K over the D5K any day. It will work well now and will be worth it when you get a better amp and DAC later.


----------



## mmd8x28

Ha, my father has some old Pro-80's lying around. They don't work though.. Same abuse as the Shures.. Sucks, that move to Florida from Mass, really damaged a lot of our stuff while in storage for couple years...


----------



## ScRyX

I am currently using EF2 with AKG K701. I am using the DAC encapsulated in it and would like to know whether I can achieve an improvement worth the money by buying an extra USB DAC for approximately 300$. What would be the best choice? Thanks for advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScRyX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently using EF2 with AKG K701. I am using the DAC encapsulated in it and would like to know whether I can achieve an improvement worth the money by buying an extra USB DAC for approximately 300$. What would be the best choice? Thanks for advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Adding a nicer DAC with line out into the EF2 definitely results in an worthwhile improvement in sound - including the Pico DAC-only, iBasso D10 or D4, and the new Nuforce uDAC (testing a pre-production but final version which is fantastic).


----------



## mmd8x28

I'm beginning to think my computers built in sound card isn't that bad of a DAC.

 Mac Pro Early 08 (8 CPU cores, 32GB RAM)...

 To the EF2's built in DAC, my computers own DAC can provide up to 24-bit 96KHz..


----------



## estreeter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm beginning to think my computers built in sound card isn't that bad of a DAC.

 Mac Pro Early 08 (8 CPU cores, 32GB RAM)...

 To the EF2's built in DAC, my computers own DAC can provide up to 24-bit 96KHz.._

 

I dont know about the Mac Pro - thats a serious computer for listening to music when my netbook will do a similar job - but my Macbook Pro sounds a lot better when I pump the signal through my Topaz DAC.


----------



## Skylab

I thought I would add my own impressions to this thread - I hope HeadphoneAddict doesn't mind, but I see no point in creating a whole separate thread for my comments, in light of all the great information presented here.

 In addition, I don't have anything to report that differs much from HA's view. 

 I tested the EF2 using NOS Mullard CV4010 tubes. I didn't even try the stock tubes - 6AK5 tube types are plentiful and cheap, and there is no point in using known inferior Chinese tubes. The 6AK5 is a nice sounding tube. I like the Mullard best, but I have some Sylvanias and Tung-Sols which Also sound good. I also tried the fabled Western Electric 403A, and it also sounded terrific. Lots of great choices!

 I used the EF-2 with the Shure SRH-840, my 600 ohm Beyer DT880 and 990, and also with the HifiMan HE-5. Overall, the EF2 was happiest driving the Shure. All the headphones worked fine, but the EF2 is a little out of its element driving 600 ohm cans. The HE-5 also demanded a lot of the EF2, and I think the HE-5 need better amplification in general, but the combination wasn't bad at all.

 Used as just a headphone amp, via its analog inputs, I found the EF2 to be smooth and pleasant sounding. It was not the last word in resolution, detail, or transparency, but it is more than adequate in all those regards, especially when its price is considered. With headphones that are not tortuously difficult to drive, like the Shure, the EF2 was very good, and its slight warmth was actually a good match for the just slightly lean sounding Shures. The EF2 is more or less neutral, with a just slightly lush sound, which does vary somewhat with the tubes chosen. It lacks a little top-end sparkle and a little of the very deepest bass authority when compared to far more expensive amps. But when compared to amps in the same price class, like the AV123-XHead (admittedly an all-SS design), the EF2 provided better overall sound, with an more appealing midrange.

 Soundstaging was quite impressive for an amp in this price class, and the sound overall has an organic "rightness" to it that makes the EF2 very easy to listen to for long periods of time. I took it on a 4-day business trip with me, where it was my only headphone amp, and I was completely happy with it - thrilled, in fact, to have such good music in my hotel room! The TSA people were not so thrilled by my packing it along, though - it cost me 10 minutes at the Orlando airport 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The USB DAC was adequate - an improvement for sure over the sound card on my laptop, but that isn't saying much. It was not nearly as good as the USB DAC in my Music Hall DAC 25.2, though. And I thought my iMod iPod via the EF2's analog inputs also sounded better than its built-in DAC.

 Nonetheless, for the asking price, the EF2 is a great value if you pretend it doesn't even have a DAC! Look at the DAC as a bonus. If it's helpful, great. If not, for $189, unless your headphone stable is full of only the most power-hungry headphones, I think the EF2 is a nice amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I would add my own impressions to this thread - I hope HeadphoneAddict doesn't mind, but I see no point in creating a whole separate thread for my comments, in light of all the great information presented here.

 In addition, I don't have anything to report that differs much from HA's view. 

 I tested the EF2 using NOS Mullard CV4010 tubes. I didn't even try the stock tubes - 6AK5 tube types are plentiful and cheap, and there is no point in using known inferior Chinese tubes. The 6AK5 is a nice sounding tube. I like the Mullard best, but I have some Sylvanias and Tung-Sols which Also sound good. I also tried the fabled Western Electric 403A, and it also sounded terrific. Lots of great choices!

 I used the EF-2 with the Shure SRH-840, my 600 ohm Beyer DT880 and 990, and also with the HifiMan HE-5. Overall, the EF2 was happiest driving the Shure. All the headphones worked fine, but the EF2 is a little out of its element driving 600 ohm cans. The HE-5 also demanded a lot of the EF2, and I think the HE-5 need better amplification in general, but the combination wasn't bad at all.

 Used as just a headphone amp, via its analog inputs, I found the EF2 to be smooth and pleasant sounding. It was not the last word in resolution, detail, or transparency, but it is more than adequate in all those regards, especially when its price is considered. With headphones that are not tortuously difficult to drive, like the Shure, the EF2 was very good, and its slight warmth was actually a good match for the just slightly lean sounding Shures. The EF2 is more or less neutral, with a just slightly lush sound, which does vary somewhat with the tubes chosen. It lacks a little top-end sparkle and a little of the very deepest bass authority when compared to far more expensive amps. But when compared to amps in the same price class, like the AV123-XHead (admittedly an all-SS design), the EF2 provided better overall sound, with an more appealing midrange.

 Soundstaging was quite impressive for an amp in this price class, and the sound overall has an organic "rightness" to it that makes the EF2 very easy to listen to for long periods of time. I took it on a 4-day business trip with me, where it was my only headphone amp, and I was completely happy with it - thrilled, in fact, to have such good music in my hotel room! The TSA people were not so thrilled by my packing it along, though - it cost me 10 minutes at the Orlando airport 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The USB DAC was adequate - an improvement for sure over the sound card on my laptop, but that isn't saying much. It was not nearly as good as the USB DAC in my Music Hall DAC 25.2, though. And I thought my iMod iPod via the EF2's analog inputs also sounded better than its built-in DAC.

 Nonetheless, for the asking price, the EF2 is a great value if you pretend it doesn't even have a DAC! Look at the DAC as a bonus. If it's helpful, great. If not, for $189, unless your headphone stable is full of only the most power-hungry headphones, I think the EF2 is a nice amp._

 

You are always welcome to add to and enhance threads like this!


----------



## daigo

I've been mulling over whether or not I should add a DAC to my EF2 as well after a bit of listening. Considered picking up a DAC with multiple input options like the Matrix Mini-I someone listed in the source FS forums, but I haven't fully convinced myself yet.

 After spending a few nights listening to the variety of music I typically listen to (rock of various forms, classical, asian classical, and jazz), I think I've settled on using RCA 6AK5 tubes of the ones that I have (Sylvania gold pin 6AK5, GE 6AK5) because they provided the most vast soundstage and instrument separation, great bass response with my closed headphones. However, the clarity with electric guitar seemed a bit lacking for me, so I wonder if a better DAC would improve that aspect of my listening experience.


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont know about the Mac Pro - thats a serious computer for listening to music when my netbook will do a similar job - but my Macbook Pro sounds a lot better when I pump the signal through my Topaz DAC._

 

I find a much better SNR via the Mac Pros own DAC than the EF2's DAC, along with the analog input being louder slightly.


----------



## jrah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I would add my own impressions to this thread - I hope HeadphoneAddict doesn't mind, but I see no point in creating a whole separate thread for my comments, in light of all the great information presented here.

 In addition, I don't have anything to report that differs much from HA's view. 

 I tested the EF2 using NOS Mullard CV4010 tubes. I didn't even try the stock tubes - 6AK5 tube types are plentiful and cheap, and there is no point in using known inferior Chinese tubes. The 6AK5 is a nice sounding tube. I like the Mullard best, but I have some Sylvanias and Tung-Sols which Also sound good. I also tried the fabled Western Electric 403A, and it also sounded terrific. Lots of great choices!

 I used the EF-2 with the Shure SRH-840, my 600 ohm Beyer DT880 and 990, and also with the HifiMan HE-5. Overall, the EF2 was happiest driving the Shure. All the headphones worked fine, but the EF2 is a little out of its element driving 600 ohm cans. The HE-5 also demanded a lot of the EF2, and I think the HE-5 need better amplification in general, but the combination wasn't bad at all.

 Used as just a headphone amp, via its analog inputs, I found the EF2 to be smooth and pleasant sounding. It was not the last word in resolution, detail, or transparency, but it is more than adequate in all those regards, especially when its price is considered. With headphones that are not tortuously difficult to drive, like the Shure, the EF2 was very good, and its slight warmth was actually a good match for the just slightly lean sounding Shures. The EF2 is more or less neutral, with a just slightly lush sound, which does vary somewhat with the tubes chosen. It lacks a little top-end sparkle and a little of the very deepest bass authority when compared to far more expensive amps. But when compared to amps in the same price class, like the AV123-XHead (admittedly an all-SS design), the EF2 provided better overall sound, with an more appealing midrange.

 Soundstaging was quite impressive for an amp in this price class, and the sound overall has an organic "rightness" to it that makes the EF2 very easy to listen to for long periods of time. I took it on a 4-day business trip with me, where it was my only headphone amp, and I was completely happy with it - thrilled, in fact, to have such good music in my hotel room! The TSA people were not so thrilled by my packing it along, though - it cost me 10 minutes at the Orlando airport 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The USB DAC was adequate - an improvement for sure over the sound card on my laptop, but that isn't saying much. It was not nearly as good as the USB DAC in my Music Hall DAC 25.2, though. And I thought my iMod iPod via the EF2's analog inputs also sounded better than its built-in DAC.

 Nonetheless, for the asking price, the EF2 is a great value if you pretend it doesn't even have a DAC! Look at the DAC as a bonus. If it's helpful, great. If not, for $189, unless your headphone stable is full of only the most power-hungry headphones, I think the EF2 is a nice amp._

 

How does the amp only (not the DAC) compare with the similarly priced Musical Paradise which you also reviewed?


----------



## Skylab

Well I prefer the Musical Paradise, but this is with about $75 worth of NOS tubes, so it's comparing $275 amp + tubes vs $210 amp + tubes. And the EF2 is a little more neutral - I find the MP301 a little more involving. Both great values, though.


----------



## mmd8x28

Man I'm thinking about buying some Grados. I don't have a lot of money so I hope I can find a sweet deal..


----------



## DragonReborn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would take the D7K over the D5K any day. It will work well now and will be worth it when you get a better amp and DAC later._

 

Thanks, almost forgot that. My wallet isn't happy, but I am now ordering the D7K with Jmoney Earpads and the EF2. I'm really looking forward to this, as my best headgear yet is the portapro which I have misplaced anyway. I'm currently using an old phillips set a friend found in a dumpster


----------



## mmd8x28

I may get Grado RS2i, are they over the ear or on the ear? I need over ear headphones, anything else and my ears hurt.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may get Grado RS2i, are they over the ear or on the ear? I need over ear headphones, anything else and my ears hurt._

 

They sit on and press on the ear, and do not surround it.


----------



## mmd8x28

That would be far to uncomfortable for me. The prestige series looks the same. The professional ones seem to be the only over ear one from Grado, but I aint paying that price tag.

 Guess I'll just keep the RatShack phones I got right now, they atleast are comfortable and sound halfway decent.

 Maybe I'll get these: Retro Thing: Panasonic Retro Headphones: Old School Looks & Value


----------



## mmd8x28

Actually, nvm.

 I want old vintage 60's 70's over the ear headphones. When I was in elementary school, they had this little tape recorder with these huge headphones with volume control on either side. I remember it sounding awesome when I brought in my own tapes of music..

 I can't find them though for a decent price, without a huge shipping charge.

 EDIT: Anyone here wanna send me old good sounding vintage headphones? I'll buy it.


----------



## estreeter

Guys - can we keep this within the general realm of fullsize amps, please ? 

 mmd, that was a blatant threadjack: I'm sure most Grados would benefit from the EF2 but you just turned left and drove the thread straight down Grado St, pulling into Nostalgia Alley and waiting for someone to do a deal. I'd really like to head back to Amp Blvd if thats OK with everyone else.


----------



## mmd8x28

Sorry, I didn't mean to threadjack, so don't go using the word blatent please.

 An amp requires headphones to use it, thus I feel it was fine.. Therefor your accusation was unwarranted.. Thank you.

 Might I remind you this whole thread has been about tubes and headphone pairing with the EF2 amp..

 Oh, and the EF2 isn't a "fullsize amp".


----------



## estreeter

Its in the 'Fullsize Amp' forum, so its a fullsize for mine, but its a grey area : the Lisa is the amp that currently has my attention, but its annoying : finally find the amp that the vast majority agree is the 'best for around 1K USD' and new one comes along. I know we arent talking about the EF2 in that sentence, but I guess I've gone OT now : blatantly.


----------



## mmd8x28

I guess I'll call it a fullsize for the sake of it requiring a PSU and not batteries..

 But I'm merely just trying to find headphones to use with my EF2, I have a specific need. I'm partially def yes, but can still hear some detail, but don't need top of the line, and I like the feel of old over the ear headphones, vs on ear headphones.. (I'm not keen for in ear either).


----------



## FrozenGecko

I just got some Raytheon 6AK5 tubes for my EF2.

 I'm sick though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My nose and ears feel very clogged, so I can't hear a difference in my current state =p

 HA, what were the differences you noticed with better tubes? nothing to detailed, just wanna know what I have to look forward to when I feel better =p


----------



## mmd8x28

Ok, need advice. I found the headphones I want, they feel great on my head, and sound decent for me. BUT, it's impedance seems a little odd, and I worry the EF2 won't be able to drive it..

 Pioneer SE-2P
 Specs:
 Speaker type / design: Moving Coil, full range
 Frequency Response: 20-16,000Hz ± 3dB
 Efficiency: 96.0 dB 1mV
 Matching Impedance: 4-16Ω 
 Max power rating: 500mW

 They are Pioneer SE-2P.

 Can the EF2 handle that impedance? Or is "Matching Impedance" something else?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FrozenGecko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got some Raytheon 6AK5 tubes for my EF2.

 I'm sick though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My nose and ears feel very clogged, so I can't hear a difference in my current state =p

 HA, what were the differences you noticed with better tubes? nothing to detailed, just wanna know what I have to look forward to when I feel better =p_

 

On page 1 of my review I said, "After I changed the stock chinese tubes at 300 hours to the NOS Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that Skylab sold me, the EF2 ceased sounding bright with any headphone once I got about 24 hours on the Raytheon tubes, and improved over an 75-100 hour burn-in on the new tubes. It also sounded more refined, smoother, more musical and more involving."


----------



## Mr C

just got mine this morning, very nice indeed. Gonna burn it in tonight.
 Anyone knows what ouput format/ postprocessing format I should use in foobar, and what buffer length I should use?


----------



## DragonReborn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AKGs have specific power consumption requirements. Especially the 701's. The 702's i had didn't seem to be particularly hungry cans. But the 701 really needs a jump start to get going._

 

Hi, can you elaborate? I though the k702 were exactly the same as k701.


----------



## boomy3555

You would think so but The 701's have been known to need a good amp and the 702 owners have not come forward with the same concerns.. I only auditioned the 701's but owned the 702's and only had the EF1 and EF2 at the time so I can't say what amp would be required for the 70x's. Just that the 702's seemed lifeless with the EF's.


----------



## DragonReborn

Ok, I was starting to hope it might be possible to drive the k702 with the ef2.


----------



## boomy3555

Possible but not ideal.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Possible but not ideal._

 

You can drive a 300 ohm sennheiser to blaring volumes no problem with an ipod. It IS very possible. Quality on the other hand im still discovering...


----------



## estreeter

Carl, you have the 580 - it would seem to be considerably easier to drive than the 650 - happy to hear otherwise.


----------



## hasanyuceer

*Can EF2 drive Hifiman HE5 properly?*


----------



## estreeter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Can EF2 drive Hifiman HE5 properly?*_

 

Given that HiFiMan make an amp specifically for the HE5, I'd probably take a look at that thread.


----------



## mmd8x28

They sell a resistor cable for it I think, though for $50..


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Can EF2 drive Hifiman HE5 properly?*_

 

If you are buying the HE5 you should see the HF5/HE5 combo offer that Fang has on his site.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Yes, I saw the combo but i dont want to change EF2. All I need is a new headphone...

 Mostly thinking about RS1 or RS2. Confused when I saw HE5.. Does HE5 worth changing amplifier?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I saw the combo but i dont want to change EF2. All I need is a new headphone...

 Mostly thinking about RS1 or RS2. Confused when I saw HE5.. Does HE5 worth changing amplifier?_

 

I will try EF2 later today. 

 At CanJam the HE-5 were still about 5 ohm or so on the impedance, and the EF2 didn't have enough current reserves to drive the HE-5. The final production version HE-5 is much easier to drive, and I can get decent sound (but not always the volume I want) from portable amps. The HE-5 tend to be like HD600 and want a desktop amp more than a portable, but for wanting the higher current capabilities rather than the higher voltage swing that the HD600 want.

 I believe the EF2 amp will be fine for now since the impedance is higher than before, but you will likely want to upgrade amps later. I would not spend the money on the RS-1 or RS-2 after hearing the HE-5, because if you upgrade your amp later for the Grados you wont get as good sound quality as you will from the HE-5 with an upgraded amp later. The HE-5 are the first full size dynamic headphone to challenge my HD800 since I got the LA7000, which I still love because of the fantastic soundstage and imaging and synergy with my ZDT for great bass. I think I even like the HE-5 more than my LA7000, which at used prices cost 2x as much! But, those are my top 3 dynamics, and they come in above the RS-1.


----------



## mmd8x28

Wait, when I asked about low impedance headphones like 4-16 ohms, Fang told me the EF2 could easily drive that.


----------



## boomy3555

There's more to it than just ohms of resistance. Sensitivity etc. ( I don't know all of the issues) but " Planar " orthodynamics require more power than regular dynamic drivers. ie: I need to turn up the volume approximately 25-50 % when using my Fostex T50RP's


----------



## mmd8x28

When you refer to regular dynamic, are you talking about moving coil?


----------



## boomy3555

yes

Headphones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Mr C

To go with the ef2 you'd be much better off with top end grados or denons.
 But since your in the euro zone you'll have to buy used grados.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Hi Larry,

 Have you tried EF2 with HE5? Can it drive properly or can you get decent/listenable sound?

 If yes, I guess I will get HE5...

 Also how is HE5 with Woo WA6? Thinking about getting a Pico DAConly/DacMagic and WA6 in ~6 months...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will try EF2 later today. 

 At CanJam the HE-5 were still about 5 ohm or so on the impedance, and the EF2 didn't have......_

 


 @Mr C: Thinking about changing amp in 4-5 months, but EF2 have to handle me till that time. Also HE5 and RS2 are at the same price in here.. This is why I started to think about HE5...


----------



## mrarroyo

All the new toys makes many of us forget how good the top tier headphones of 3+ years ago sound. I still prefer the RS-1 sound over the HD800, specially when I factor in the price. YMMV.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Miguel, 3+ years ago my favorite phone is Sony MDR828 and I was listening music not sounds... I still cant get the same taste..

 Unfortunately, things change...


----------



## mmd8x28

I see what you mean about sensitivity. My vintage Pioneer SE-2P's arrived. Though 4-16 ohms, they are TOUGH. My laptop was unable to drive them right, sounded like crap. In the EF2, almost like crap, once the EF2 warmed up, the bass started to "come in", and sound floor started making these old 1966 headphones sound great for their time..

 But damn, the EF2 is the only thing that can drive it except my Onkyo 4500 amp (which did them flat out easily)..


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Miguel, 3+ years ago my favorite phone is Sony MDR828 and I was listening music not sounds... I still cant get the same taste..

 Unfortunately, things change..._

 

Things do change, but not everything made today is better than what was made a few years ago and that was my point.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hasanyuceer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry,

 Have you tried EF2 with HE5? Can it drive properly or can you get decent/listenable sound?

 If yes, I guess I will get HE5...

 Also how is HE5 with Woo WA6? Thinking about getting a Pico DAConly/DacMagic and WA6 in ~6 months...

 @Mr C: Thinking about changing amp in 4-5 months, but EF2 have to handle me till that time. Also HE5 and RS2 are at the same price in here.. This is why I started to think about HE5..._

 

YES. The EF2 with Pico DAC-only is currently driving the HE-5 to loud levels without clipping, which is about the same levels as the WA6 will drive them, and a little louder than an iBasso D4 using the 9v battery instead of 5v USB (while D4's 5v USB mode has too little power). And, it sounds good while driving them.

 Zero volume/off on the EF2 volume knob is at 8 o'clock, normal listening levels are at 2 o'clock and loud levels/max is at 6 o'clock on the volume dial. I would never listen at max volume. This leaves room for using the quieter internal DAC of the EF2 and you should still get decent volume levels with EF2 and HE-5.

 I reported on the HE-5 with WA6 at one of the following links: Head-direct HiFiMan HE-5 headphone impressions: 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6175753-post75.html and more at 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6202646-post497.html and 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6202790-post135.html


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks for clarification Larry...


----------



## mmd8x28

Hmm, normally with the RadioShack headphones I listened them at 6 o clock position... (max)..

 With the vintage Pioneer SE-2P's from 1966, I play them at same level at 3 o clock position.


----------



## mmd8x28

I have a feeling these headphones are hard to drive, because I'm just not getting bass like it should.

 Would an impedance matching transformer help the EF2 drive these 8 ohm headphones?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a feeling these headphones are hard to drive, because I'm just not getting bass like it should.

 Would an impedance matching transformer help the EF2 drive these 8 ohm headphones?_

 

I would replace the headphones.


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a feeling these headphones are hard to drive, because I'm just not getting bass like it should.

 Would an impedance matching transformer help the EF2 drive these 8 ohm headphones?_

 

You need a WAY stronger amp than an EF-2 for the HE-5s imo. Maybe something as strong as a Beta 22 would be my suggestion.


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would replace the headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not an option. I wouldn't have gotten a tube amp if I didn't like vintage sound, and I'm going full out with vintage headphones.. They sound good on an amp, but not on the EF2.

 Surely the EF2 can power an 8 ohm headphones, Fang told me it'd work..

 EDIT: Nvm... I'm just gonna use my old Onkyo TX-820 for the low impedance phones, and the EF2 for all things "normal".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/ampd.jpg


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not an option. I wouldn't have gotten a tube amp if I didn't like vintage sound, and I'm going full out with vintage headphones.. They sound good on an amp, but not on the EF2.

 Surely the EF2 can power an 8 ohm headphones, Fang told me it'd work..

 EDIT: Nvm... I'm just gonna use my old Onkyo TX-820 for the low impedance phones, and the EF2 for all things "normal".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/ampd.jpg_

 

I'm just saying how much I enjoy the EF2, that I wouldn't get rid of it just because they aren't the best match with your vintage phones.


----------



## mmd8x28

I didn't say I was getting rid of the EF2, you still notice it's there.. I just have this amp now hooked up for all the low impedance things, and the EF2 for every other normal headphone that is 32 or higher in impedance..

 It's just, this older amp can handle the demand the 8 ohm headphones require, the EF2 couldn't.

 It would be cool if it was possible to patch the EF2 INTO the Onkyo amp, like a preamp. That would likely sound nice.


----------



## espandon

What would be the options, if I'd like to buy a DAC that surpasses EF2's DAC in 100-200$ level? And how big the difference would be in the sound quality?

 What do you think?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *espandon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the options, if I'd like to buy a DAC that surpasses EF2's DAC in 100-200$ level? And how big the difference would be in the sound quality?

 What do you think?_

 

The Nuforce uDAC will be a noticeable upgrade over the the EF2 DAC, and for $99 it's sound quality is closer to the Pico DAC-only than the EF2 DAC.


----------



## daigo

Larry's glowing review of the uDAC in the source forums encouraged me to purchase one as an upgrade over my EF2's DAC. The main benefit that I've noticed is an improvement in clarity for mids and highs, and for the bass to have a bit more impact without needing to increase the volume and ruin the rest of the sound. Separation of instruments in ensemble pieces or bands with multiple guitars is much improved, even for some of my lower quality mp3's of chinese traditional music that include multiple types of stringed and wind instruments. 

 For ~$104 shipped, I found it to be a very nice upgrade.


----------



## espandon

OK, thanks I'll consider the nuforce. But since it's out of stock for now, I'll consider the others as well.
 What about the Chinese DACs. For example musiland 05 or zero dac? Is there anyone who tried them with EF2?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daigo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry's glowing review of the uDAC in the source forums encouraged me to purchase one as an upgrade over my EF2's DAC. The main benefit that I've noticed is an improvement in clarity for mids and highs, and for the bass to have a bit more impact without needing to increase the volume and ruin the rest of the sound. Separation of instruments in ensemble pieces or bands with multiple guitars is much improved, even for some of my lower quality mp3's of chinese traditional music that include multiple types of stringed and wind instruments. 

 For ~$104 shipped, I found it to be a very nice upgrade._

 

Glad it's worked out for you. It's a pretty neat piece of gear.


----------



## Cluny

I need a dac/amp for my grado 225 with a Supreme FX II (something like that) soundcard as source.
 im thinking of buying the EF2 or the Ibasso d10. With one do you guys recommend?
 I don't really care about size and price as long as its not over 300$

 /Cluny


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I dont see how you could use the EF2 DAC with a sound card (which is a DAC). If you used your Supreme FX II, then you would only be using the AMP on the EF2.


----------



## Cluny

True, is the soundcard better then the dac? 
 Anyways.. I also use a macbook from time to time.


----------



## JaxM

Hey all,

 I didn't go through the entire thread so forgive me if this is a double post, but it looks like the EF-2 is $169 as part of a Christmas sale on head-direct!


----------



## mmd8x28

I wonder why it's called EF2A..

 I wonder if Fang replaced the PSU from the undergauged wires I found from their supplier of PSU's..


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Headphone jack looks a little different.


----------



## mmd8x28

Indeed it does, looks like it's missing the bolt that normally screws on to hold it to the front panel.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

So how much of an upgrade would this be from a D2 Boa? I'm currently using SR80's. I'm worried about making more of a sidestep than a step forward, but this looks really good. I like the fact that it is a hybrid amp too.

 I also heard this was socketed, does that mean you could use the HDAM units in it? Would I want to?

  Quote:


 Assuming the EF2 is fully burned-in, yes, it is better than the D2 Boa, no question - while the D2 Boa isn't bad it just isn't as enjoyable as the EF2. 
 

Oops, found 1 answer on the 4th page!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how much of an upgrade would this be from a D2 Boa? I'm currently using SR80's. I'm worried about making more of a sidestep than a step forward, but this looks really good. I like the fact that it is a hybrid amp too.

 I also heard this was socketed, does that mean you could use the HDAM units in it? Would I want to?



 Oops, found 1 answer on the 4th page!_

 

I feel the EF2 is a step up from the D2 Boa as an amp. The DAC is not as detailed and spacious, but the amp is noticeably more balanced, refined and powerful in the EF2 vs the D2 Boa. The EF2 with a better DAC like the Nuforce uDAC will give you the extra detail if you feel it's lacking.


----------



## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also heard this was socketed, does that mean you could use the HDAM units in it? Would I want to?
 !_

 

What is the purpose of the opamp in the EF2? I think it would be cool to try a HDAM or perhaps the Fetishizator if that is suited for the job.


----------



## mmd8x28

Pull the tubes, and listen. There's your opamps.


----------



## crowley

I'm sold, I'm getting one of these for the holidays


----------



## migs008

I seem to be experiencing a little problem with mine. It makes slight background noises that ruins my experience a little after like a few minutes. Each time I turn it on and off again it dissapears then reappears. This sucks and I just got my Denon D7000 playing on it. Anyone know how to fix this?


----------



## mrarroyo

migs008 I would turn it off wait a couple of minutes and check to see if the tubes are properly seated. I would then check all my connections. Make sure that if you are using a PC you set the priority as high for the software you are using to play your music files with. Lastly let the unit burn-in for a 36-48 hours, I have found that some new amps have "noise" that disappears after being used for a while. Good luck.


----------



## boomy3555

Clicking, hiss then clicking again? If laptop, try turning off the wireless conection.


----------



## migs008

Looks like it was a problem with the usb cable. Switched it and no more noise. But I paid it with a small scratch on my new phones. T_T

 This thing should have came with a scratch remover.

 Thanks for the tip.


----------



## boomy3555

Bummer. The 7K's are so pretty too.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Is anyone else listening to the EF2 with HD580/600/650? I have to say after transitioning from a HD485 with a SB audigy, to Sennheiser HD580/EF2 I could never go back.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone else listening to the EF2 with HD580/600/650? I have to say after transitioning from a HD485 with a SB audigy, to Sennheiser HD580/EF2 I could never go back._

 

I also like the HD600 with EF2, but I haven't tried the HD600 with the stock cable in almost 2 years. I found the stock cable to sound less detailed and more rolled off, but the stock EF2 tubes should help even out the treble with the stock cable. With the upgraded cable the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes have been a good match.

 The EF2 scales up with a better tubes, DAC and headphones as well, and I can appreciate the HE-5 or HD800 as an upgrade over the HD600 when using the uDAC or Pico DAC instead of the built-in DAC.


----------



## daigo

I have RCA NOS 6AK5 tubes in my EF2 and the main thing I notice is an improvement to the bass and mid bass. Much punchier bass and helps bring the mids up to a more enjoyable level. The RCA tubes have been so good that I haven't bothered trying the pair of Sylvania gold pin 6AK5's or the pairs of GE 6AK5's that I also have.


----------



## Smoke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone else listening to the EF2 with HD580/600/650? I have to say after transitioning from a HD485 with a SB audigy, to Sennheiser HD580/EF2 I could never go back._

 

I used the EF2 with the HD 595. Just bought the HD 650. I was afraid they would sound a bit too dark and that the EF2 might not drive them to a decent volume. Somehow I just had to find out. Boy was I wrong! I really like the laidback yet detailed sound and the volumeknob hardly goes over the 12 hours piont.

 Seems like I don't need to upgrade for a while, maybe a better DAC in the future. Really nice combo for the money IMO.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also like the HD600 with EF2, but I haven't tried the HD600 with the stock cable in almost 2 years. I found the stock cable to sound less detailed and more rolled off, but the stock EF2 tubes should help even out the treble with the stock cable. With the upgraded cable the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes have been a good match._

 

I have the HD650 cable, though I really doubt I would notice the difference between this and the regular HD580/600 cable. It just came with the headphones (along with the HD600 grills) when I got them.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the HD650 cable, though I really doubt I would notice the difference between this and the regular HD580/600 cable. It just came with the headphones (along with the HD600 grills) when I got them._

 

HD650 cable is still an upgrade over the stock HD600 cable: REVIEW: APureSound V3 Silver Cable with Copper Core for Sennheiser vs stock HD600 & HD650 cables - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## DayoftheGreek

I just pulled the trigger on this amp! I'm excited, this is my first foray into tubes/hybrids.

 I've been looking at amps and headphones for more than a year now trying not to give into to upgraditus, but I've finally given in. Oh well, I had a good run.

 So I still have the question I posted earlier. This amp has a socketed op-amp if I heard correctly. Is this op-amp one worth changing? Could I put an HDAM in it? Would I want to?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I never answered because I just don't know.


----------



## boomy3555

your OPamp swapping question was answered way back in the thread. (pages 6-12 Approx.) Just guessing though. An interesting question about the HDAM. IIRC, the HDAM has the same socket as regular OPamp but takes up much more space and may have different voltage spec. I'd E-Mail Fang and ask him. I know that amps like the Zero, Maverick, and Compass can use HDAM's but ?????? The EF's


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never answered because I just don't know._

 

I didn't mean to nag, but I know often times questions get left unanswered if they get bumped off the current page. Your input has been invaluable. Many thanks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_your OPamp swapping question was answered way back in the thread. (pages 6-12 Approx.) Just guessing though. An interesting question about the HDAM. IIRC, the HDAM has the same socket as regular OPamp but takes up much more space and may have different voltage spec. I'd E-Mail Fang and ask him. I know that amps like the Zero, Maverick, and Compass can use HDAM's but ?????? The EF's_

 

I have read the thread all the way through and I do not recall any extended discussion of the topic. I will certainly go back and take a look though. I will send Fang an email and post his reply as soon as I get it.



 Got a quick answer!
 "EF2 is discrete component design. There is only one op-amp on the board which is not important to sound quality."


----------



## j.har1bo

Would the EF2 be sufficient to drive the AKG k500/501?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j.har1bo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the EF2 be sufficient to drive the AKG k500/501?_

 

I think the EF2 has plenty of power to drive most headphones properly.


----------



## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j.har1bo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the EF2 be sufficient to drive the AKG k500/501?_

 

It drives my K400's very well I think, the have the same specs. 2 o'clock is the highest I reach with the volume knob, and normally it sits around 12, and that's with the build in DAC which is suposed to have a somewhat weak output.


----------



## amdj

I've never owned an external DAC or headphone amp before. I am a complete noob when it comes to this stuff so any help would be appreciated!!

 Question:

 It seems like these would not be good for headphones such as the DT880 600ohm version. But for the 250ohm version, would this amp be the sweet spot? I currently don't own any full sized headphones (except my Senn280s that broke a while back), only a pair of Westone UM2s and UE TrippleFi10s. I am still on an Audigy2 after 5-6 years and am looking for a nice sound upgrade since I primarily use my desktop for my music. Will this DAC/AMP work with PC games or is it designed only for music (.Flac/MP3 format) and movies?

 I'm interested in the DT880 (250ohm version) + this amp because I'm looking for something is great in comfort, has excellent bass response, and some nice sparkle. Is there something possibly better than the DT880 for games? I'll most likely use my Westone UM2s or UE TF10s for music.

 I was originally planning to buy a Cowon S9 but decided I much rather get a better audio boost from a DAC/AMP. It pretty comes down to if the EF2 can be used in games and whatnot...

 Also, where can I buy additional tubes in case the stock ones burn out?

 Thanks!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amdj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never owned an external DAC or headphone amp before. I am a complete noob when it comes to this stuff so any help would be appreciated!!

 Question:

 It seems like these would not be good for headphones such as the DT880 600ohm version. But for the 250ohm version, would this amp be the sweet spot? I currently don't own any full sized headphones (except my Senn280s that broke a while back), only a pair of Westone UM2s and UE TrippleFi10s. I am still on an Audigy2 after 5-6 years and am looking for a nice sound upgrade since I primarily use my desktop for my music. Will this DAC/AMP work with PC games or is it designed only for music (.Flac/MP3 format) and movies?

 I'm interested in the DT880 (250ohm version) + this amp because I'm looking for something is great in comfort, has excellent bass response, and some nice sparkle. Is there something possibly better than the DT880 for games? I'll most likely use my Westone UM2s or UE TF10s for music.

 I was originally planning to buy a Cowon S9 but decided I much rather get a better audio boost from a DAC/AMP. It pretty comes down to if the EF2 can be used in games and whatnot...

 Also, where can I buy additional tubes in case the stock ones burn out?

 Thanks!!_

 

I find the EF2 powerful enough to drive the 300 ohm HD600/800 but not my 600 ohm AKG K240M. So, you should be safe with the DT880 250 ohm, other than the fact that I think the HD600 with an HD650 cable sound better than the DT880. You might also consider the Denon D2000 in your price range, or the Ultrasone Pro 750 or HFI-780, if you really need closed cans for gaming with stronger bass. 

 The EF2 will work with games, PC DVD/CD player software, and digital music. You can buy tubes on eBay, or other online tube vendors. Someone on head-fi is selling some 6AK5 that work with the EF2: WTS: Tubes for Little Dot & EF2: 5654/6AK5 etc... - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## jp_zer0

What's a good detailed and neutral-ish phone for these? I like closed if possible.


----------



## Mr C

The sure srh840 I guess, but its not like a special phone is better with a selected amp. Unless you're int 1000$+ gear.


----------



## jp_zer0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr C* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sure srh840 I guess, but its not like a special phone is better with a selected amp. Unless you're int 1000$+ gear._

 

ye I guess


----------



## daigo

I think the specifications for the EF2 from the head-direct site listed that it should be used with a maximum 300 ohm impedance headphones.


----------



## amdj

H.A., THANKS for the input. Why not just get the HD650 in the meantime (since they aren't much more expensive than the 600 new)? I'm reading some conflicting information that this amp is not strong enough for the 650.

 I have a few more questions (I appreciate any input from anybody!!):
 1) Will there still be treble/bass boosts that can be applied to (in windows) on all applications (including games) by using this sort of dac/amp? I'm asking this because I've seen other amps that can adjust this on the actual amp itself...Or will I have to rely on the EQ in music programs to get the sound preference I want (which means I won't get to change the bass/treble to my liking in games...)
 2) How long do the tubes usually last? Do you have a preference as to where you buy them?
 3) I'm saving up for an HD650 along with the cardas cable. I've searched around a bit and the best prices I can find are $339 and $220, respectively for both items. Also the best price for the EF2 seems to be ~$189. Will the aforementioned items make me extremely happy when paired with the EF2 headamp/DAC and a collection of FLAC tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





? 
 4) Sorry if I missed this, but what kind of music do you find works extremely well with the mentioned setup?
 5) If the EF2 isn't a good option for the HD650, anybody here know if the FUBAR III along with the separate power supply is a good option? Or perhaps a Little Dot MK V...?
 6) It seems like you dislike the DT 880s quite a bit. Even the Denon D2000 is preferred?
 7) Thanks man, I really appreciate the help. I don't know who else would know the answers between everyone I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Thanks again for the help! I've got some more reading to do when I get back from work. Take care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## boomy3555

1) your EQ settings in your choice of media player ie: Itunes,Windows Media Palyer,etc. will remain the same. The EF 2 does not change them.

 2) Tubes usually last several thousand hours easy. It all depends on how much use they got before you use them.

 3) I think you will be quite happy with the set-up but I personally like the Denons better than the Senns. For gaming, you might find the Denon bass flavor more to your liking than the 650's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amdj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_H.A., THANKS for the input. Why not just get the HD650 in the meantime (since they aren't much more expensive than the 600 new)? I'm reading some conflicting information that this amp is not strong enough for the 650.

 I have a few more questions (I appreciate any input from anybody!!):
 1) Will there still be treble/bass boosts that can be applied to (in windows) on all applications (including games) by using this sort of dac/amp? I'm asking this because I've seen other amps that can adjust this on the actual amp itself...Or will I have to rely on the EQ in music programs to get the sound preference I want (which means I won't get to change the bass/treble to my liking in games...)
 2) How long do the tubes usually last? Do you have a preference as to where you buy them?
 3) I'm saving up for an HD650 along with the cardas cable. I've searched around a bit and the best prices I can find are $339 and $220, respectively for both items. Also the best price for the EF2 seems to be ~$189. Will the aforementioned items make me extremely happy when paired with the EF2 headamp/DAC and a collection of FLAC tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? 
 4) Sorry if I missed this, but what kind of music do you find works extremely well with the mentioned setup?
 5) If the EF2 isn't a good option for the HD650, anybody here know if the FUBAR III along with the separate power supply is a good option? Or perhaps a Little Dot MK V...?
 6) It seems like you dislike the DT 880s quite a bit. Even the Denon D2000 is preferred?
 7) Thanks man, I really appreciate the help. I don't know who else would know the answers between everyone I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Thanks again for the help! I've got some more reading to do when I get back from work. Take care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 

I simply don't like the HD650 as much as the HD600. The HD600 are more balanced and natural sounding, and seem faster and more detailed with out a darker sound like the HD650.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I am listening to the HD580 right now through the EF2 and a old CD player and its brilliant. I noticed more high end detail with the EF2 compared to the cd players built in amp and less bloated bass. You simply cant go wrong with an HD600/EF2. I have never tried the HD650 but I think I would like it even more.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EF2 will work with games, PC DVD/CD player software, and digital music. [/url]_

 

I regularly game with the EF2. I read somewhere that external usb DACs have an impact on gaming performance. I ran several tests, and this turned out to be bogus. Performance was the exact same. The EF2 is a very versitle device.


----------



## mrarroyo

Yes the EF2 is a very versitile unit at a very good price. Plus IMO it looks great and uses very little desktop space.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Just got mine in the mail today. Took 5 days to get from China to NJ. It's sure a nice looking thing! Can't wait to get some real listening time on it.


----------



## DannyBuoy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amdj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_H.A., THANKS for the input. Why not just get the HD650 in the meantime (since they aren't much more expensive than the 600 new)? I'm reading some conflicting information that this amp is not strong enough for the 650.

 I have a few more questions (I appreciate any input from anybody!!):
 1) Will there still be treble/bass boosts that can be applied to (in windows) on all applications (including games) by using this sort of dac/amp? I'm asking this because I've seen other amps that can adjust this on the actual amp itself...Or will I have to rely on the EQ in music programs to get the sound preference I want (which means I won't get to change the bass/treble to my liking in games...)
 2) How long do the tubes usually last? Do you have a preference as to where you buy them?
 3) I'm saving up for an HD650 along with the cardas cable. I've searched around a bit and the best prices I can find are $339 and $220, respectively for both items. Also the best price for the EF2 seems to be ~$189. Will the aforementioned items make me extremely happy when paired with the EF2 headamp/DAC and a collection of FLAC tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? 
 4) Sorry if I missed this, but what kind of music do you find works extremely well with the mentioned setup?
 5) If the EF2 isn't a good option for the HD650, anybody here know if the FUBAR III along with the separate power supply is a good option? Or perhaps a Little Dot MK V...?
 6) It seems like you dislike the DT 880s quite a bit. Even the Denon D2000 is preferred?
 7) Thanks man, I really appreciate the help. I don't know who else would know the answers between everyone I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Thanks again for the help! I've got some more reading to do when I get back from work. Take care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 

I got the EF2 back in August after hearing it at CanJam09 in LA.
 I originally listened to it with my Audio Technic ATH A700s and recently bought Denon D5000s and have enjoyed it a lot!
 I bought a pair of GE-JAN 5654W (Military grade version) and have enjoyed the increase in mid-bass/mid-range over the stock tubes and they seem to knock a bit of sizzle off the highs that I was getting at higher volumes (your experience will vary as impedence and sensitivity will color this in your own way).
 I also bought the Cryoparts USB cable for $75 but do not think that helped as much as the tubes did.
 One other mod was to swap out the wall wart with an 18V/800ma transformer instead of the stock 16V/500ma supply. This made an audible difference in the qulaity of the bass especially as I would listen at higher sound levels. I am so impressed with this upgrade I have ordered an 18V/2500ma torrodal transformer from back East and I am going to build a box much like the EF5 has and stack the EF2 like you see in the EF5 picture.
 I am very pleased with the EF2 and I thought you might appreciate hearing some basic mods I di in "the pursuit of..."


----------



## blackbird

Hey Headphone Addict! How would you compare the DAC/AMP in the EF2 to that in the uDAC(I am pretty sure it has an amp as well)? If was to pick one, which one would be better? Also, is the amp in the EF2 better than that in the Starving Student? Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blackbird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Headphone Addict! How would you compare the DAC/AMP in the EF2 to that in the uDAC(I am pretty sure it has an amp as well)? If was to pick one, which one would be better? Also, is the amp in the EF2 better than that in the Starving Student? Thanks._

 

RE: uDAC, first take a look here: FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Nuforce uDAC USB DAC AMP with line out and S/PDIF out - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - My preference is to feed the uDAC into the EF2 via RCA cables, and plug the headphones into the EF2 (with Raytheon 6AK5 tube upgrade).

 As for the Millett SSH, I don't spend a lot of time with it since I gave it to my son after the 11/08 Colorado meet. I spent a bit of time with it at the 11/08 meet with Blutarsky's vintage Grado PS-1 and I was in heaven. But our Millett SSH can't be used with IEM because the volume knob has too much channel imbalance when closer to zero volume, and the gain is a bit high with IEM. Ours is the rds kit version. In general I'd say they are not too different sounding, but the EF2 is much more versatile with what phones to use with it and having the built-in DAC (and not having to build it yourself).


----------



## hasanyuceer

Is emu0404/0202 or Musiland Monitor 02 a upgrade for internal dac of EF2? or uDac is better than all?


----------



## Raez

Anybody have any comments about the EF2 and the HE-5?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Raez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody have any comments about the EF2 and the HE-5?_

 

In my personal profile "about me" are links to my reviews - look at the ones for the HE-5 and I mentioned the EF2 there. I'll recap what I think I said. I think the EF2 works much better with the final HE-5 than the prototype HE-5. It's better than a portable amp with the HE-5, and not as good as the EF5 for sure, but it's acceptable until you decide to upgrade.


----------



## RichieLitt

Hmm..I just got this to replace my Headroom Airhead amp, and I feel like it doesn't sound nearly as good as I'd expected it would with the DAC
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: If I bought the Nuforce udac, how would I connect the two?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm..I just got this to replace my Headroom Airhead amp, and I feel like it doesn't sound nearly as good as I'd expected it would with the DAC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: If I bought the Nuforce udac, how would I connect the two?_

 

PC > USB CABLE > uDAC > RCA cables > EF2


----------



## blackbird

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PC > USB CABLE > uDAC > RCA cables > EF2_

 

Would this not amp twice? How does the audio quality degrade if amping twice? 

 Also, if I had to choose one out of two components first, assuming that I buy both the EF2 and the uDAC, which one should I purchase first when upgrading from integrated audio?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blackbird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would this not amp twice? How does the audio quality degrade if amping twice? 

 Also, if I had to choose one out of two components first, assuming that I buy both the EF2 and the uDAC, which one should I purchase first when upgrading from integrated audio?_

 

No, the uDAC RCA out are not amped or buffered. The Sabre DAC has a 2v output stage that is sent to the RCA jacks.


----------



## Stein

I just got myself a pair of k701's for Christmas and couldn't help but notice this amp was on sale for Christmas as well. All I have to amp my phones right now is an e5 which obviously isn't adequate. Would the EF2 be a nice amp for the 701's? Thanks in advance.

 EDIT: Would the USB DAC just bypass my soundcard? I'm still not exactly sure how I would even hook the thing up to my computer. Currently I'm just going Xonar DX -> e5 -> k701's.


----------



## boomy3555

Upon connecting the EF2 to your USB port, your computer will autorecognize it as USB speakers and will bypass your onboard soundcard in favor of the EF2's DAC. Any EQ settings in Itunes or your other media player will stay the same, but you volume adjustment options will change.

 As far as the ability of the EF2 to power the 701's?? I had the 702's and found the EF2 lacking in driving them. Just my personal obsevation of course.


----------



## daigo

USB DAC's will bypass your onboard or installed sound card's output. It will be called something like 'USB Sound Card' that you may choose in your audio output settings in Windows.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stein* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got myself a pair of k701's for Christmas and couldn't help but notice this amp was on sale for Christmas as well. All I have to amp my phones right now is an e5 which obviously isn't adequate. Would the EF2 be a nice amp for the 701's? Thanks in advance.

 EDIT: Would the USB DAC just bypass my soundcard? I'm still not exactly sure how I would even hook the thing up to my computer. Currently I'm just going Xonar DX -> e5 -> k701's._

 

Yes, it bypasses the internal sound card, so it goes...

 PC > USB Cable > EF2 > K701


----------



## Stein

Great, thanks a lot for the clarification. 
 And @ boomy, the EF2A should still sound quite a bit better than my e5 though, yes? Unfortunately I can't afford to spend hundreds getting a really nice amp and dac just yet, but the EF2 seemed like a great deal, especially with the Christmas sale going on.


----------



## boomy3555

The EF2 will definitely sound better than the Fiio. It not always necessary to spend thousands for a good sound. The EF2 will also give you the oportunity to "Roll Tubes" for varaible changes in the sound.


----------



## Faheem

I am totally new to hybrid/ tube amps and DAC and the EF2A will be my first.It will be arriving in 3-4 days along with the RE-252 IEM.They are review samples given to me by Fang and Indian distributor of Head-Direct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wanted to know if IEMs like RE-0,RE-252 will do justice to the EF2A for testing or should I also get a good/ decent headphones as from whatever limited knowledge I have and I've read the tube amps are mainly used for headphones with high sensitivity etc.
 Till date I've never ventured into cans/headphones as I pretty much like my Philips SHP 9000 and sourcing good affordable cans in India is not easy.I was planning to upgrade something better in the range of ~100-150$ or save up and get something lot better later on. Pretty confused right now. :S


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Faheem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am totally new to hybrid/ tube amps and DAC and the EF2A will be my first.It will be arriving in 3-4 days along with the RE-252 IEM.They are review samples given to me by Fang and Indian distributor of Head-Direct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I wanted to know if IEMs like RE-0,RE-252 will do justice to the EF2A for testing or should I also get a good/ decent headphones as from whatever limited knowledge I have and I've read the tube amps are mainly used for headphones with high sensitivity etc.
 Till date I've never ventured into cans/headphones as I pretty much like my Philips SHP 9000 and sourcing good affordable cans in India is not easy.I was planning to upgrade something better in the range of ~100-150$ or save up and get something lot better later on. Pretty confused right now. :S_

 

The EF2 works well with most of my IEM, and you should be able to appreciate the improvement. You would probably really like an Alessandro MS-1 with the EF2 amp, and those are $99 shipped worldwide. I think you'd have to spend 2x that on a Grado SR-225 to improve on the sound. This is based on your listed IEM that you have. If you are looking to become a bass-head you could consider a used Denon D2000 which also has good synergy with the EF2 and fits your budget (new is more expensive).


----------



## Faheem

Thanks a lot for the recommendations.I am also eying the Grado Sr-80i as well since they are priced at 99$.How are they compared to the Alessandro MS-1 ? Going by the reviews, the Grados seem to be more upfront while MS-1 is slightly laidback.
 I am not a bass head as such so the Denon D2000 wont do for me.To give you an idea of what I am looking for , the sound should have a very smooth liquid midrange,good vocals,wide soundstage and detailing, bass shouldn't be very boom but adequate and well controlled with a nice texture to it .High's need not be very bright but shouldn't even be completely missing.Hope I am not asking for too much .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT : Just read  that the MS-1 sound signature is similar to the RE-2 /K-75.If true i have another reason to get it,I absolutely loved my RE-2 when I had them.
 So I guess the Alesandro MS-1 it is ?Any recommendations in closed cans ?


----------



## mmd8x28

Woah, I just accidentally noticed something.. While just playing around and keeping the POTs cleaned, while the volume was up at max, a pen fell off the desk, and hit the EF2, and in the IEMs I could hear a glassy tap..

 When I tap the right tube, I can hear it in the right earphone.. Tap the left tube, and hear it in the left earphone. Only with volume at max though.

 That is a REALLY neat side effect..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Faheem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot for the recommendations.I am also eying the Grado Sr-80i as well since they are priced at 99$.How are they compared to the Alessandro MS-1 ? Going by the reviews, the Grados seem to be more upfront while MS-1 is slightly laidback.
 I am not a bass head as such so the Denon D2000 wont do for me.To give you an idea of what I am looking for , the sound should have a very smooth liquid midrange,good vocals,wide soundstage and detailing, bass shouldn't be very boom but adequate and well controlled with a nice texture to it .High's need not be very bright but shouldn't even be completely missing.Hope I am not asking for too much .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT : Just read  that the MS-1 sound signature is similar to the RE-2 /K-75.If true i have another reason to get it,I absolutely loved my RE-2 when I had them.
 So I guess the Alesandro MS-1 it is ?

*Any recommendations in closed cans ?*_

 

Sennheiser HD25-1 or Shure SRH840. Don't have the Shure to compare, but liked them at CanJam. I gave my HD25-1 to my 11 year old son because my ATH-ESW10 get more ear time, but they are very nice except for the small soundstage (like the MS-1 and other Grados).

 The MS-1 would probably suit you more than the SR-80, but the sound is very close. The SR-80 is very slightly more tipped up in the bass and treble, but it is very mild. I enjoy both.

 [EDIT - you edited your post while I was typing mine - I'll go check out the link later]


----------



## Raez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woah, I just accidentally noticed something.. While just playing around and keeping the POTs cleaned, while the volume was up at max, a pen fell off the desk, and hit the EF2, and in the IEMs I could hear a glassy tap..

 When I tap the right tube, I can hear it in the right earphone.. Tap the left tube, and hear it in the left earphone. Only with volume at max though.

 That is a REALLY neat side effect.._

 

Dude, you REALLY shouldn't be playing your IEMs at max volume...

 But yeah, that's neat.


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Raez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, you REALLY shouldn't be playing your IEMs at max volume...

 But yeah, that's neat._

 

No computer was plugged in. I was technically trying to see how loud the hiss got, and clean the POT (didn't bother taking out the IEM since it wasn't plugged into a computer, therefore shouldn't make any sound).

 This just happened out of nowhere, and totally weird. Atleast it's not microphonics.


----------



## Faheem

Just an update, I got my EF2A amp today.Tried it for a brief period of 30-40 mins with my Quattros,RE-0,RE-252 ( both are not burned in) and also the poor man's cans SHP 9000 from Philips.Each of them sounds kickass and lot lot better than my sound card -Asus XONAR DX, or other sources like Clip+ & E5 ,iphone + E1 etc.Though those are not the best sources to compare it with, just to give a general idea. 

 I will post a review once it completes 300-400 hrs .Since I am new to the Quality DAC/amps part,don't expect a audiophile or expert review but I will try to post each and every detail honestly and straight from the heart.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As of now all I can say is I am in love with the EF2A, sounds clean and nice ! I don't think one can get anything better in this price range. A really good desktop setup for starters or even the audiophiles who want to keep the budget low .
 Here are a few snaps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

















 By the way this was sent as a review sample by Fang and I got it via the Indian reseller of Head Direct. Thanks a ton to the man -Fang .


----------



## mmd8x28

What kind of power supply do you have? Got a pic of it? I wonder if the EF2 "A" changed it from the one it had before (which nearly burned up on me).


----------



## Partofgoo

Hey,

 Does anyone know about the availability in Europe (Netherlands)? Or any import options? I'm using an AKG 272HD tru my xfi soundcard atm and feel like it can be alot better with an dac/amp.


----------



## mmd8x28

Which X-Fi?

Auzentech X-fi Forte 7.1 Soundcard review | test

 Looks like the X-Fi has a damned decent DAC. I honestly think you'd be better off with the EF2 being fed by analog cable from the X-Fi. Seriously I think that DAC is better than what the EF2 has to offer.


----------



## Partofgoo

Talking about a fairly older xfi here, creative sb x-fi xtreme music.


----------



## grahamnp

I don't care much for the MS-1 and stock EF2 combo but I like it as an improvement in quality over my (previously) unamped MS-1 eventhough the the new sound signature does not appeal to me as much. I've bought some M8100s to replace the stock tubes and hopefully when they arrive, they will be less bright with the MS-1s than the stock ones.


----------



## Faheem

^Where do you guys buy tubes from ? Any online store which would ship them to India ?
 I am looking @ a warm and slightly dark sounding tube set for the EF2A ,keeping the budget as low as possible . any suggestions ?
 Basically I want the mids to be little more upfront,reduce the slight sharpness or the brightness in treble and make the lows more punchy and textured compared to the stock tubes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grahamnp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't care much for the MS-1 and stock EF2 combo but I like it as an improvement in quality over my (previously) unamped MS-1 eventhough the the new sound signature does not appeal to me as much. I've bought some M8100s to replace the stock tubes and hopefully when they arrive, they will be less bright with the MS-1s than the stock ones._

 

I've said a few times that the stock tubes are brighter than the Raytheon or Mullard tubes, so I expect that you will get the improvement you are looking for.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Faheem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Where do you guys buy tubes from ? Any online store which would ship them to India ?
 I am looking @ a warm and slightly dark sounding tube set for the EF2A ,keeping the budget as low as possible . any suggestions ?
 Basically I want the mids to be little more upfront,reduce the slight sharpness or the brightness in treble and make the lows more punchy and textured compared to the stock tubes._

 

See above. eBay would be one place to start. Also, there is a guy in the FS forum selling 6AK5 tubes that he might ship to you. Do a search there.


----------



## mmd8x28

anyone reccomend a traveling case for the EF2? It feels too weird putting it in my laptop bag, or just sitting it on my car seat.


----------



## ufotofu

I received my EF2 from ALO today, and I'm burning it in right now. It sounds great right now (keep in mind this is my first headphone amp). My older SR80s are loving it. It's got about 6hrs on it so far. Might eventually up the ante with a dedicated DAC (and higher end phones), but right now I feel like I got a great deal for this amp at $189.

 I ordered it Sunday night and received it today via Fedex 2day. The workmanship is very good. The fit and finish of the exterior is very nice. It feels like it's built to last - very solid.

 Connection was a breeze on 64bit Vista. Plug in the USB. It loaded the driver in about 10s. Plug it and change sound settings in Control Panel. Crank up Foobar2000 and select WASAPI Burr Brown and we're up and running.

 My SR80s sound very nicely driven at the 12o'clock position. Listening to YoYo Ma's Made In America right now.


----------



## espandon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone reccomend a traveling case for the EF2? It feels too weird putting it in my laptop bag, or just sitting it on my car seat._

 

You can use a dslr-camera bag. They're pretty large enough for EF2 to fit and also provide a significant amount of protection to shocks.


----------



## daigo

I would find it difficult to transport the EF2 with tubes installed without some foam protection for the tops of the tubes.


----------



## Stein

Well, I got got my EF2A today after what seemed like forever, even though it actually came very quickly. I'm already loving this thing to death. My burned-in AD700's sound amazing from this already, and my virgin k701's sound better too, surprisingly. I can't wait to really hear this once both them and my k701's are burned in fully.


----------



## mmd8x28

I installed some 1930's Western Electric 6ak5's, and holy cow the sound changed. The bass got super boomy, with a tad less treble. I actually had to turn down my bass on iTunes EQ cause it was so rich..

 Didn't expect 30's NOS tubes to be so rich in bass, considering every recording I hear from that time period has NO bass whatsoever.


----------



## Faheem

^ Is the bass too boomy or is it like well controlled ,rich punchy bass with textures and details ?


----------



## mmd8x28

too boomy i think.. like, on my favorite song, Clint Eastwood from the gorillaz, right before the rapper starts rapping at the beginning, there's a heavy bass drum. normally it's a loud low bass. But with these 30's tubes, it's just, extended it seems, and VERY obnoxious.


----------



## Stein

Maybe this would be better saved for a different thread, but is there anything I really need to know about taking care of this amp or other amps in the future? 

 I turn down the volume and turn off the amp before switching headphones with it, and I let it warm up for ~20 minutes before actually putting it to use. Is there anything I'm missing? I just want this thing to be in tip-top shape for a while.


----------



## daigo

The stickied faq on tubes provides some suggestions on how to care for tubes.


----------



## grahamnp

Head-Direct seems to have updated the amp as the EF2A with improved output and USB volume(?), anybody know what the differences are?


----------



## Stein

@ Daigo:

 I read the sticky, but I meant more along the lines of volumes I should be set at and whether or not I should turn it off before switching headphones and the like.


----------



## mmd8x28

With the 1930's Western Electric 6ak5's burning in, the bass is starting to get tamed and not so elongated.. Surprised such an old tube still needs a burn in, lol.. The bass is now seemingly as punchy, but isn't killing the highs.


----------



## Skylab

If the tube is truly NOS, then it will need burn-in, no matter how old


----------



## espandon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grahamnp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Head-Direct seems to have updated the amp as the EF2A with improved output and USB volume(?), anybody know what the differences are?_

 

Where did you get this idea?


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stein* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Daigo:

 I read the sticky, but I meant more along the lines of volumes I should be set at and whether or not I should turn it off before switching headphones and the like._

 

Start up:

 Turn the amp on at little or no volume
 let it warm up. (usally 5-10 minutes but you may have a different prefference.)
 plug in your cans and turn up the volume as desired.

 shut down:
 turn down the volume to almost zero.
 Unlpug the cans.
 turn of the amp. no need to wait between when you pull the cans and turn off the amp.

 Just a good habit to get into.


----------



## Stein

Great, that's what I was looking for. I was just kind of curious as to what the routine should be. Thank you very much.


----------



## grahamnp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *espandon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get this idea?_

 

Product page

 Thought the price used to be $189 too, as opposed to $169 now but I didn't buy direct from Head-Direct so I can't be sure.


----------



## mmd8x28

Have my first problem with the EF2.

 Got myself a new KDS 26" LCD, and whenever the LCD is on, the EF2 has a hum. It is picking interference from the inverter on the LCD..

 How can I prevent this when I have such a small desk?


----------



## zeromacro

Do any of you guys use the EF2 with the K701? Will it be sufficient enough to drive it?


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do any of you guys use the EF2 with the K701? Will it be sufficient enough to drive it?_

 

Knowing the 701s reputation for being hard to drive, I'd say NO! This isn't a very powerful amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do any of you guys use the EF2 with the K701? Will it be sufficient enough to drive it?_

 

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Search Results

 After the question was asked a million times, someone only posted within the last week that they work okay together.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Search Results

 After the question was asked a million times, someone only posted within the last week that they work okay together._

 

Total Shocker

 Perhaps the reputation of them being hard to drive is being overplayed?

 btw, "Johansson" is spelled wrong in your sig.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Total Shocker

 Perhaps the reputation of them being hard to drive is being overplayed?

 btw, "Johansson" is spelled wrong in your sig._

 

I posted back in February that the iBasso T3 in high gain with bass boost on was able to drive the K702 decently (boomy3555 loaned us for a meet), so I don't see it as being impossible for the EF2 to drive them. But, I don't have a pair and haven't tried them, so I didn't want to chime in and find out I was wrong.

 In the sig that is a quote from another user, so the source spelled it wrong.


----------



## Stein

I can't say exactly how _well_ they drive them, but with the volume at 75, foobar at 10dB, and the knob on the ef2 at around 4 o'clock, the volume is pretty much sufficient. I guess that's kind of just my opinion, though. If I were to turn up the volumes more it would be much more than enough, I just don't like having things high/maxed all the time.


----------



## mmd8x28

My EF2 is buzzing constantly 50% of the time now.. It's that same buzz it makes when you first turn it on...

 It's really annoying me now...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My EF2 is buzzing constantly 50% of the time now.. It's that same buzz it makes when you first turn it on...

 It's really annoying me now..._

 

Does it do that when plugged into the wall in a different room? What about with a different source? Do you have other tubes to try? If it really wont go away after changing that around, you should contact Head-direct.


----------



## mmd8x28

Well it seems to be related to what's around it. Source is just USB, nothing analog, so the sound quality should all be on the EF2 at this point since it's its DAC.

 But, for example, if I turn off my LCD monitor, the buzzing gets more quiet, but not completely. Sometimes even with the LCD on, the buzzing will go away by itself..

 I can stimulate it when it buzzes. If I give it a kick drum sound, the buzzing gets loud then quiet nearly right after the sound.. Almost like a DC filtering capacitor has failed.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Hmm, not sure how to resolve that - you could try some different AC noise filtering products for home theater or UPS battery backup for PC, and plug the amp into a different circuit. If you have a noisy PC and the amp is quiet in another circuit in another room with a different source, I don't know which to blame.


----------



## mmd8x28

The PC itself should be fairly quiet. It's a Mac Pro and it has LOTS of grounds inside, even the side of the case has ground padding to ensure no EMF problems.

 I'll try it in another room, hooked up to no source and volume up, to see if it picks anything up.

 It honestly sounds like a 60Hz hum..


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Try taking out the tubes and using it, it will still play just with less amplification (ss only). This may isolate the problem.


----------



## Kayk

Really glad I found this huge thread!

 Quick question, I'm thinking about getting this amp, and I'm wondering if this 'plan' I have come up with will work. Basically as of now I listen to music on my desktop, my source being an HT Omega Claro+ sound card, to this amp, to (recabled and modded) Denon D2000s. However next year, I will be without my desktop and with my Macbook. But for now, can I hook the amp up with the RCA inputs, bypassing the DAC because I want to output through my sound card. In the future when I only have my Macbook, I can use the USB connection, thus making use of the DAC.

 So basically, is what I just said going to work? Also, which method will have better sound quality? I don't know much about DACs, digital output and all that stuff, but I am pretty sure using the USB connection from my desktop will just skip my sound card completely, but does that make the output digital? Hopefully if what I believe is correct, this amp will be the answer to exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really glad I found this huge thread!

 Quick question, I'm thinking about getting this amp, and I'm wondering if this 'plan' I have come up with will work. Basically as of now I listen to music on my desktop, my source being an HT Omega Claro+ sound card, to this amp, to (recabled and modded) Denon D2000s. However next year, I will be without my desktop and with my Macbook. But for now, can I hook the amp up with the RCA inputs, bypassing the DAC because I want to output through my sound card. In the future when I only have my Macbook, I can use the USB connection, thus making use of the DAC.

 So basically, is what I just said going to work? Also, which method will have better sound quality? I don't know much about DACs, digital output and all that stuff, but I am pretty sure using the USB connection from my desktop will just skip my sound card completely, but does that make the output digital? Hopefully if what I believe is correct, this amp will be the answer to exactly what I was looking for._

 

If you use the USB input of the EF2 you skip the sound card, and the output is digital. 

 I find the Macbook headphone out is on par with a 5.5G ipod video and doesn't suck but isn't anything special either. I feel that the "PCM2702E Japan" USB DAC in the EF2 is a little better and acts as an upgrade for the Mac. It's a huge upgrade to the sound card built into our HP 1.8Ghz Celeron Win XP PC (or my Fujitsu LTC500 Win 2K tablet).


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really glad I found this huge thread!

 Quick question, I'm thinking about getting this amp, and I'm wondering if this 'plan' I have come up with will work. Basically as of now I listen to music on my desktop, my source being an HT Omega Claro+ sound card, to this amp, to (recabled and modded) Denon D2000s. However next year, I will be without my desktop and with my Macbook. But for now, can I hook the amp up with the RCA inputs, bypassing the DAC because I want to output through my sound card. In the future when I only have my Macbook, I can use the USB connection, thus making use of the DAC.

 So basically, is what I just said going to work? Also, which method will have better sound quality? I don't know much about DACs, digital output and all that stuff, but I am pretty sure using the USB connection from my desktop will just skip my sound card completely, but does that make the output digital? Hopefully if what I believe is correct, this amp will be the answer to exactly what I was looking for._

 

Though I have never heard the Claro, I think it has a better DAC than the EF2, which is a Burr-Brown Japan PCM2702 DAC. This may leave you desiring something next year when you switch to the EF2s DAC. However, the EF2 is very versatile and will do everything you want it to.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Though I have never heard the Claro, I think it has a better DAC than the EF2, which is a Burr-Brown Japan PCM2702 DAC. This may leave you desiring something next year when you switch to the EF2s DAC. However, the EF2 is very versatile and will do everything you want it to._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really glad I found this huge thread!

 Quick question, I'm thinking about getting this amp, and I'm wondering if this 'plan' I have come up with will work. Basically as of now I listen to music on my desktop, my source being an HT Omega Claro+ sound card, to this amp, to (recabled and modded) Denon D2000s. However next year, I will be without my desktop and with my Macbook. But for now, can I hook the amp up with the RCA inputs, bypassing the DAC because I want to output through my sound card. In the future when I only have my Macbook, I can use the USB connection, thus making use of the DAC.

 So basically, is what I just said going to work? Also, which method will have better sound quality? I don't know much about DACs, digital output and all that stuff, but I am pretty sure using the USB connection from my desktop will just skip my sound card completely, but does that make the output digital? Hopefully if what I believe is correct, this amp will be the answer to exactly what I was looking for._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use the USB input of the EF2 you skip the sound card, and the output is digital. 

 I find the Macbook headphone out is on par with a 5.5G ipod video and doesn't suck but isn't anything special either. I feel that the "PCM2702E Japan" USB DAC in the EF2 is a little better and acts as an upgrade for the Mac. It's a huge upgrade to the sound card built into our HP 1.8Ghz Celeron Win XP PC (or my Fujitsu LTC500 Win 2K tablet)._

 

The EF2 takes a nice step upward in sound quality with the $99 uDAC which is a USB DAC that utilizes one of the newer ESS Sabre DAC chips. So, that is also a consideration.


----------



## happyxix

How is the DAC compared to letsay, a Creative Platinum (same as the xtreme music I think) sound card? 

 Since the uDAC is given so much praise, is it worthwhile to get it over the sound card? Also, is there another DAC around the $200 range that is bigger than the uDAC? Preferably around the same size as the EF2? These are just some things I'm picky about but really doesn't make or break anything.

 I ordered the EF2 and it should be here soon... Cant wait as this is my first dedicated Amp. Hope it can work well with a HD595 or ATH-A900 and perhaps a K702 that I'm considering....


----------



## ufotofu

I've had my EF2 for about a month now with around 75-100 hrs on it so far. It has really smoothed out over the last couple weeks. The bass has also gotten noticably tighter and now sits on an even keel with the other frequencies. My SR80s are still a bit harsh on some recordings, but much less than before this amp. I can't say the soundstage is as spacious as I'd like, but there is definitely more space there than when it was new. This is my first tube amp, and I'm constantly amazed at the dynamics of this amp. In a few months I may opt for either better cans, NOS tubes or an upgraded DAC (or a combo of the 3).

 All in all, I'm totally amazed at what I got for less than $200. Thanks for your review HeadphoneAddict! Thanks for all of you keeping the discussion going. I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this purchase w/o so much info.

 Currently listening: The Roy Haynes Trio (Haynes, Perez, Patitucci)


----------



## Gorthon

I am considering a purchase of this amp, but have some questions. 

 As you can see in my sig, I am pretty well set for portable. I feel I have a pretty good home setup also. I am looking to build a better PC system and utilize portions of my portable gear to build a desktop system. Below are the two basic configs I would be using.

 PC --> 08 Headroom Micro DAC --> ? Amp --> Grado HF-1/RS-2
 PC --> 08 Headroom Micro DAC --> Creative Cambridge Soundworks Speakers (Next item to upgrade)

 I use my PC mainly for gaming with headphones, mostly because it is subpar to my other systems, but is an important part. As I upgrade this system, that may balance out.

*How would the EF2 compare to a Millet Hybrid MAX?*

*Would the EF2 handling gaming needs?*

 I don't want to have to rely on batteries.

 I am looking at using my Micro DAC instead of the D10 since it has power supply. I don't have to worry about ruining the D10 battery or charging. I believe that it is also a better DAC using optical (the only way I have ever compared). I have seen numerous times that you like the D10 (using USB)with the EF2.
*Any thoughts on how the EF2 DAC would compare to the Micro DAC?*

*Do you think it matters which input method (Optical/Coax/USB) is used the DAC?*

 Some other questions that I have been unable to find answers to.
*How does the EF2 compare to the EF5?*

*How does the EF2 compare to the DarkVoice 336 and 3322) ?*

*What is the next logical step up from a EF2?*


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*How would the EF2 compare to a Millet Hybrid MAX?* Don't know.

*Would the EF2 handling gaming needs?* Probably.

 I don't want to have to rely on batteries.

 I am looking at using my Micro DAC instead of the D10 since it has power supply. I don't have to worry about ruining the D10 battery or charging. I believe that it is also a better DAC using optical (the only way I have ever compared). I have seen numerous times that you like the D10 (using USB)with the EF2.
*Any thoughts on how the EF2 DAC would compare to the Micro DAC?* Micro DAC is better via USB, and much better via optical or coax.

*Do you think it matters which input method (Optical/Coax/USB) is used the DAC?* Optical or Coax.

 Some other questions that I have been unable to find answers to.
*How does the EF2 compare to the EF5?* Not as powerful, slightly less detailed but otherwise very good.

*How does the EF2 compare to the DarkVoice 336 and 3322) ?* Don't know, but indirectly the EF1 was very slightly better than the DV336i except with HD600 and $100 in tubes the 336i was a little better. Then at CanJam the EF2 sounded like an EF1 but with less power, at which time I traded amps so I could do a review.

*What is the next logical step up from a EF2?* Well, I'm taking the headphones you listed into consideration, and many of the amps in the $169 - $399 range that I have here are on a similar level to the EF2 or just slightly better either in power or detail. A Cavalli CTH I once borrowed to compare to EF1 would be a small improvement in sound and a big one in power (as it was slightly better than EF1). A Millett mini max would be nice. Grados like tube hybrids or transformer coupled tube amps, so a Woo WA6 would be an even better choice amp. A DIY SOHA II is another good upgrade amp for Grados. If you had HD600 I'd say Grahm Slee Novo is the next step up.
_

 

See answers in red.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

For gaming, I dont think an EF2 is necessary. I use it for gaming, and it works fine, but I have an EF2 for music. Everything else is secondary. Personally I don't really think sound matters much for a game andI believe is 333 dollars itself, and prolly completely superior to the EF2's DAC, which has a pretty generic DAC chip (I believe it can be purchases by itself for under $15). It sounds like a logical upgrade for you would be a headroom micro amp.

 If you really want to use your pc for gaming and not music, look at the creative x-fi lineup.


----------



## Gorthon

Thanks HeadphoneAddict! 
 When you say "Millett mini max", I presume that would be the same as a "Millett Hybrid MiniMax". There is a chance that I will be able to get on with many of the top end parts (from what I can tell). A bit more expensive ($100)then a EF2. You mentioned that would be "Nice". Would you mind expanding on that (about the same, little better, step up, etc.)? 

 Crazy*Carl 
 I understand that this may be overkill for gaming, but I am interested in building a quality music rig with my PC. I am tired of dealing with Sound Cards and drivers. I want plug and play consistancy. If the gaming side can benifit from this to, great. It seems to me that the EF2 or equivalent would be a better sound and purchase since a Micro amp is over $300.


 Ultimalty, I am looking to spend as little as possible (like we all aren't).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but get a desktop system that is just as good or better than a Micro DAC/SR71 combination. It seemed to me, based on information in this thread, that the EF2 might be that piece I was missing. Or maybe the Millet I mentioned above.


----------



## Gorthon

Now I am thinking maybe the EF5 should be my target.

 So confused


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HeadphoneAddict! 
 When you say "Millett mini max", I presume that would be the same as a "Millett Hybrid MiniMax". There is a chance that I will be able to get on with many of the top end parts (from what I can tell). A bit more expensive ($100)then a EF2. You mentioned that would be "Nice". Would you mind expanding on that (about the same, little better, step up, etc.)?_

 

I have only heard one at meets with my RS-1 and liked it. I can't elaborate more because I am not familiar enough with it. And yes, I meant the Hybrid.


----------



## RichieLitt

A question about tubes..Would ordering this variety offer an increase in SQ? It says they are in the 6ak5 class. Thanks.

6AK5 / EF95 / 5654


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question about tubes..Would ordering this variety offer an increase in SQ? It says they are in the 6ak5 class. Thanks.

6AK5 / EF95 / 5654_

 

It's impossible to say - because there is no information about WHAT 6AK5 variety you'd be getting: "Assorted brands in stock" says very little.

 These would be a better choice:

SLEEVE OF FIVE 5654 / 6AK5W / 6096/ CV4010 TUBES - eBay (item 150258060327 end time Feb-01-10 15:07:10 PST) 

 I can vouch for that seller - I have bought a fair number of tubes from him, and all were excellent. Those are the British Military CV4010 tubes, and I use them in my EF2 - they sound great.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crazy*Carl 
 I understand that this may be overkill for gaming, but I am interested in building a quality music rig with my PC. I am tired of dealing with Sound Cards and drivers. I want plug and play consistancy. If the gaming side can benifit from this to, great. It seems to me that the EF2 or equivalent would be a better sound and purchase since a Micro amp is over $300._

 

Personally, I dont think you will benefit with gaming exclusively on an EF2. Its not that its overkill, its just hi-fi audio and gaming usually use different equipment from what I have read. If your gona be doing some music listening on your compuer (which I don't see why you wouldn't, 21 century!) the ef2 is a good choice.


----------



## RichieLitt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's impossible to say - because there is no information about WHAT 6AK5 variety you'd be getting: "Assorted brands in stock" says very little.

 These would be a better choice:

SLEEVE OF FIVE 5654 / 6AK5W / 6096/ CV4010 TUBES - eBay (item 150258060327 end time Feb-01-10 15:07:10 PST) 

 I can vouch for that seller - I have bought a fair number of tubes from him, and all were excellent. Those are the British Military CV4010 tubes, and I use them in my EF2 - they sound great._

 

Hmm..I'm just trying to find something from an online store rather than ebay, because I don't have paypal right now. It says they are NOS 6AK5 on a different page


----------



## Skylab

My point was that "NOS 6AK5" doesn't tell you everything. Knowing the brand name and the era of manufacturer is important both in knowing how they might sound, and what the value is.

 Now granted, for $5, it's not that critical


----------



## dL.

Got a few questions:

 1) Will this work for both Windows 7 and Mac?
 2) Will this benefit my SRH840 and/or HD555? By how much?

 dL


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dL.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a few questions:

 1) Will this work for both Windows 7 and Mac?
 2) Will this benefit my SRH840 and/or HD555? By how much?

 dL_

 

1. yes, but I know of one reported case with a linux user who could not get it to make sound.

 2. Someone else will have to comment as I don't have either of those headphones. I did like the SRH840 at CanJam and thought they responded well to an amp (TTVJ portable, and TTVJ FET-A was even better), but I neglected to try them with an iPod headphone out. I hate the HD555, haven't tried them again in 2 years.


----------



## nsx_23

I'm intrigued by this little amplifier. Any ideas on how it'd work with a Zero DAC and an pair of HD650?


----------



## boomy3555

I know it's hard to wade through alot of pages of posts but Headphone Addict has done a quite comprehensive review with several DACs used as external DACs to the EF2's anlog inputs vs the onboard DAC in both USB and Optical when availlable. Look back around ten pages or so for the link the Larry's review.


----------



## migs008

Just wanted to say thanks to HeadphoneAddict.

 I really love my hifiman ef2! Been using it on my Denon D7000 and I think it's finally burned in after 3 months.

 In total I paid about 756$ for both as my starter set.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also you think they would give you a huge discount on their products for all your work here? I mean c'mon you yourself might be responsible for selling over hundreds of EF2's. Not to mention your almost doing things like customer support for them.


----------



## boomy3555

I can say for fact that listening to Larry's EF2 at a meet in Denver convinced me to get one as soon as I got home and so far, It's the only desktop that I have kept. Considering my life threatening ( OK Wife Threatening) upgraditis, that's saying alot for the EF2


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can say for fact that listening to Larry's EF2 at a meet in Denver convinced me to get one as soon as I got home and so far, It's the only desktop that I have kept. Considering my life threatening ( OK Wife Threatening) upgraditis, that saying alot for the EF2_

 

And, at the Denver meet it was connected to the Apogee mini-DAC as source, instead of using the built-in DAC. It does scale up nicely with a better source.


----------



## ufotofu

Thanks HeadphoneAddict for your great review (and product support). You really should be getting a piece of the Hifiman action for all your hard work.

 What's the weak point in my system...err, next area to improve (other than my ears and music collection)? Phones? DAC? Tubes? Cryo cables?

 What my ears tell me I'm lacking is imaging and spaciousness. My only experience so far is with Grado SR80s (and borrowed SR60s prior). I'd like to get some attenuation of ambient noise. What a natural progression from where I'm at now?


----------



## boomy3555

Not really an upgrade (although the AH D2000's are around 200.00 USD) but in another "Flavor" direction would be the Denons. They have an incredible relationship with the EF2. More so tube hybrids in general.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufotofu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HeadphoneAddict for your great review (and product support). You really should be getting a piece of the Hifiman action for all your hard work.

 What's the weak point in my system...err, next area to improve (other than my ears and music collection)? Phones? DAC? Tubes? Cryo cables?

 What my ears tell me I'm lacking is imaging and spaciousness. My only experience so far is with Grado SR80s (and borrowed SR60s prior). I'd like to get some attenuation of ambient noise. What a natural progression from where I'm at now?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really an upgrade (although the AH D2000's are around 200.00 USD) but in another "Flavor" direction would be the Denons. They have an incredible relationship with the EF2. More so tube hybrids in general._

 

Ditto - add some Denon headphones and a source upgrade like a nicer DAC (Nuforce uDAC), and sit back and enjoy. You'll get better imaging than the SR-80, and some attenuation of ambient noise, and they are fairly spacious for a closed can. I keep meaning to try a Proline 750 one of these days, to see if those would qualify.


----------



## ufotofu

I've been thinking of a headphone move lately, but I can't find anyone around town that sells higher end phones. I love my Grados, but I'd like to get some ambient noise reduction and A LOT more comfort for longer listening sessions. Denon and Sennheiser are the most enticing brands right now.


----------



## ufotofu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ditto - add some Denon headphones and a source upgrade like a nicer DAC (Nuforce uDAC), and sit back and enjoy. You'll get better imaging than the SR-80, and some attenuation of ambient noise, and they are fairly spacious for a closed can. I keep meaning to try a Proline 750 one of these days, to see if those would qualify._

 

I'm showing ADH2000 @ $349. Amazon has a deal on ADH5000s for 425 USD right now. Are the 5s worth an extra 75 USD?

 Thanks for the tip on the uDAC. Sounds like my next purchase.


----------



## ufotofu

Also, any recommendations on a bang-for-your-buck interconnect to mate the uDAC to the EF2?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufotofu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm showing ADH2000 @ $349. Amazon has a deal on ADH5000s for 425 USD right now. Are the 5s worth an extra 75 USD?

 Thanks for the tip on the uDAC. Sounds like my next purchase._

 

I'm sure you can do better than that for D2000, as I have seen refurbished as low as $260 - $290 new in the past, from places like buy.com and mwave.com etc. You should search longer and harder, and include looking at eBay. You also don't need to buy them new.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufotofu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, any recommendations on a bang-for-your-buck interconnect to mate the uDAC to the EF2?_

 

YACCo. Whirly Wisp Interconnects and look for the Whirly Wisp cable (needs 100 hours burn-in).


----------



## migs008

Too bad you missed the 214$ price on the D2000 from amazon.

 And I can vouch that the denons sounds awesome on the EF2.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know it's hard to wade through alot of pages of posts but Headphone Addict has done a quite comprehensive review with several DACs used as external DACs to the EF2's anlog inputs vs the onboard DAC in both USB and Optical when availlable. Look back around ten pages or so for the link the Larry's review._

 

I'm having trouble finding the post. Do you think you can post a link?

 Cheers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having trouble finding the post. Do you think you can post a link?

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have tried uDAC, Pico DAC and iBasso D4 DAC with EF2, and all are on a similar high level of performance that improves the EF2 sound. 

FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Nuforce uDAC USB DAC AMP with line out and S/PDIF out - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## fidele-caput

Hi all, long time lurker, and first post. I just got my EF2 and waiting for some NOS tubes, my question is: do I have to take off the acrylic plate to swap them? does it need to be wiggled a bit? Forgive my paranoia, I just don't wanna mess things up.

 Secondly, I'm a basshead.. I'm used to bumped bass in EQ (eeepc - PX100). Now, I got a D2000 with the EF2 but I found the DAC input is lacking bass, is there a way to remedy this? ATM I'm resorting to using the CD input, but I really wanna use USB.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fidele-caput* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, long time lurker, and first post. I just got my EF2 and waiting for some NOS tubes, my question is: do I have to take off the acrylic plate to swap them? does it need to be wiggled a bit? Forgive my paranoia, I just don't wanna mess things up.

 Secondly, I'm a basshead.. I'm used to bumped bass in EQ (eeepc - PX100). Now, I got a D2000 with the EF2 but I found the DAC input is lacking bass, is there a way to remedy this? ATM I'm resorting to using the CD input, but I really wanna use USB._

 

Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used a rubber band wrapped around the top of each tube and wiggled them loose. My USB input is not bass-lite, but you could use EQ or add an external USB DAC like the $99 Nuforce uDAC which has good bass. I have used it with the EF2 and liked it, with good warm detailed and spacious sound.


----------



## fidele-caput

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USB DAC like the $99 Nuforce uDAC which has good bass._

 

Thanks, and now there's a huge void in my wallet, but there wasn't much to begin with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... I'll check out uDAC, but I'll try the Western electric and Raytheons first. I should've asked questions before hitting ebay. *sigh*

 HeadphoneAddict you da man


----------



## Duckman

Welcome Fidele (uxor approbas spero  Just an attempt at Latin between friends. Good to see you here!!!


----------



## BryanP

After tons of research and debating on what to get as my first entry-level amp, this was a no brainer after reading all the posts lol (just finished right now). Ordered it this morning and can't wait until it arrives!


----------



## fidele-caput

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duckman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome Fidele (uxor approbas spero  Just an attempt at Latin between friends. Good to see you here!!!_

 

LOL, hey Duckman... btw the first batch of tubes are installed.. and I'm still amazed by the difference they can make. Now the brightness gone, the bass can be cranked to the level I want without offensive highs ... I was seriously skeptical before, now it's just SEX.. lol, speaking of which: tantum mea uxor approbat, nisi patiatur iram meam.


----------



## ufotofu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fidele-caput* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, hey Duckman... btw the first batch of tubes are installed.. and I'm still amazed by the difference they can make. Now the brightness gone, the bass can be cranked to the level I want without offensive highs ... I was seriously skeptical before, now it's just SEX..._

 

Which tubes worked out better for you so far? Westerns or Raytheons? 403Bs or 6ak5s? I'm looking at a few sets of tubes right now on eBay. Just wondering where to spend my money..and what a reasonable price might be for tubes.

 On a side note, I A-B'ed my Grados and my Sony earphones on the EF2 last night. Good grief, what a difference! My Grados are have pretty nice definition across the board, not a super-wide soundstage (but you can definitely tell there's space between the musicians) and nice, tight bottom end. The Sonys sound like I've got cotton in my ears and the bass is muddy while the top is very brittle. Midrange is a mess, too. I usually only listen to the Sonys (MDR-EX71) on iPod (Nano, 3G) whilst roadbiking (128-192kbps MP3 and AACs) so I'm not looking for audiophile quality. They sound sad on the EF2 with FLACs...interesting how the better source makes the inferior cans unlistenable while the inferior cans make the inferior source pleasantly acceptable. Good case for matching components in terms of quality? I am continually blown away by the EF2 paired with the SR80s. All of my music is new again!


----------



## Duckman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fidele-caput* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tantum mea uxor approbat, nisi patiatur iram meam. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're a scary dude!

 Glad the tube change worked. Look forward to hearing about the Raytheons.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think it's only fair that all the Latin be translated for the originator of this thread - PM is fine.


----------



## Planetside5555

Awesome review that made me get my first headphone amp


----------



## Duckman

The amatuer Latin went:

 "I hope your wife approves"

 reply:

 "My wife approves entirely, lest she suffer my wrath."


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fidele-caput* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, long time lurker, and first post. I just got my EF2 and waiting for some NOS tubes, my question is: do I have to take off the acrylic plate to swap them? does it need to be wiggled a bit? Forgive my paranoia, I just don't wanna mess things up.

 Secondly, I'm a basshead.. I'm used to bumped bass in EQ (eeepc - PX100). Now, I got a D2000 with the EF2 but I found the DAC input is lacking bass, is there a way to remedy this? ATM I'm resorting to using the CD input, but I really wanna use USB._

 

Ya, take off the top plastic plate, then roll the tubes out, its very easy. Just be gental with the tubes.

 As for the bass, the EF2 is clear and very unboomy (which is good). I really saw this when I AB'ed a cdplayers amp that I had vs the EF2. If you want some extra bass, I found that win7, and possibly vista have a boost bass option that actually gives it a higher bass impact without sounding to boomy. However, I encourage you to gradually reduce the bass and go to a more neutral sound. I use to be a ridiculous bass head and I didn't realize how excessive it was until i got into head-fi. Some recording really lack bass and could use a little boost, but I pretty much always leave mine completely neutral. Also the Denon D200 naturally should have pretty good impact without tons of eq. Same with Ultrasones.


----------



## mmd8x28

Just started playing deathmetal on my EF2 for the first time.

 Is it me or does it seem like the tubes HELP the sound of metal?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just started playing deathmetal on my EF2 for the first time.

 Is it me or does it seem like the tubes HELP the sound of metal?_

 

It does sometimes. I also found I can only stand that music with my HD600 to take the edge off.


----------



## mmd8x28

Well sadly, each of my headphones have a totally different rendition of death metal on the EF2, which is odd, it's a TOTALLY different tune..

 stock tubes: very bright
 1930's western electric 6ak5 NOS: very strong in the mids (I find THESE tubes to help the most with the guitars, even possibly enhancing the distortion on the guiars)

 pioneer SE-2p: strong mid and a controlled high
 ratshack phones: boomy bass (as these always over do)
 imetal 490s IEMs: ear piercing treble

 it's SO different, i actually found just using the western electric and pioneer se-2p sound the nicest for death.. no need for bassy booms or ear piercing treble.


----------



## fidele-caput

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stock tubes: very bright
 1930's western electric 6ak5 NOS: very strong in the mids (I find THESE tubes to help the most with the guitars, even possibly enhancing the distortion on the guiars)_

 

x2

 @ufotofu: I haven't got the raytheons but WE 403A (mine 1951 I think) are good. I use the amp solely via DAC input now, and so far I'm not missing the 6dB bump at 100Hz Equalizer. The people in the basshead anonymous are very friendly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've a question: If I buy unmatched tubes, is there a big chance they won't work? won't bias? I'm thinking of buying a sleeve of 5x GE 5654 vs two matched RCAs.


----------



## BigIron

has anyone compared the EF2(A) to the MF X-CAN v3 with the denon headphone?


----------



## Faheem

*UPDATE :*
 I am not very impressed with the stock EF2A tubes even after ~200 hrs .Though the overall sound is definitely a step-up from entry level DAC /sound card hey are too bright for me and don't handle the bass very well.
 So I have planned to get replacement tubes, most probably a pair of 6AK5 / 403B . I have no idea about tubes so , need some guidance here. I am looking for a warm , forward sound with good treble (NOT bright) , detailed sound and need to keep the price as low as possible Is it possible to get anything for ~30$ for a pair.?

 I see a lot of different versions of tubes available for 403B/6AK5 on ebay . ranging for 5-10$ a tube to even 50$. Can someone please explain what is the difference between them and which one would suit me best keeping the sound preference and budget in mind ?

 Here are some of the options , i have.
2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Jan-24-10 13:20:14 PST)

GE 5684 6AK5 W Vacuum Tube MatchedSet 5 STAR Little Dot - eBay (item 160393776900 end time Feb-09-10 09:06:07 PST)

 These seem to be cheap, are they any good ?
LOT OF 2-6AK5/5654/EF95 NOS - eBay (item 260535987694 end time Feb-09-10 12:35:26 PST)

JAN 5654 (6AK5 W) Tubes General Electric NOS ~ Strong - eBay (item 360227960471 end time Feb-19-10 08:36:01 PST)

VACUUM TUBE ~ 5654W ~ GE / JAN ~ NOS ~ CROSS TO 6AK5 - eBay (item 370260509484 end time Feb-11-10 17:03:00 PST)

GE 5654W 6AK5 EF95 - 2 MATCHED NOS YAQIN 6J1 Little Dot - eBay (item 360153931164 end time Feb-03-10 13:43:26 PST)

Philips 5654 6AK5 CV4010 EF95 6J1 NOS NIB Pair - eBay (item 290393522658 end time Feb-18-10 19:34:04 PST)


 Sorry for so many links , but so many options confuse me :|.


----------



## Skylab

Go for these:

 2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes

 Only $20/pair, and they sound great. It's what I use in mine. Best bang for the buck. I have the WE 403B, but didn't think they were as good as the Mullard, and they are expensive.


----------



## ufotofu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go for these:

 2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes

 Only $20/pair, and they sound great. It's what I use in mine. Best bang for the buck. I have the WE 403B, but didn't think they were as good as the Mullard, and they are expensive._

 

Nice! Thanks Skylab! This is what I wanted to know as well. I, too, have found the stock 6J1s a tad bright. I was thinking it was my Grados, but maybe they aren't 100% to blame. Hopefully, these Mullard CV4010s will do the trick. Can't wait to plug them in. I read on another thread regarding these in the LDMkIII that they had the best low end punch and definition as well.


----------



## Faheem

Thanks a lot Skylab. Will order them soon !


----------



## dongringo

This might be a stupid question, but since I'm new at the amp thing I was wondering how, if I get this amp or a similar tube amp for my Beyer DT880/600Ohm, can I hook up my ibasso D4 dac to one of these amps? Would it be a 3.5 split into 2 coaxial cables? That's what it looks like. Sorry, I'm ignorant.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a stupid question, but since I'm new at the amp thing I was wondering how, if I get this amp or a similar tube amp for my Beyer DT880/600Ohm, can I hook up my ibasso D4 dac to one of these amps? Would it be a 3.5 split into 2 coaxial cables? That's what it looks like. Sorry, I'm ignorant._

 

3.5 mm plug on one end, a pair of RCA plugs on the other end of the cable. Should be fine. The EF2 can drive 600 ohm headphones like my AKG K240M, but it wont blast them really loud like with the 300 ohm HD600. It's certainly better than using the D4 to drive them, but not by much. It warms up the sound nicely with my AKG, but playing volumes are not good enough. My Woo WA6 is a little better choice for 600 ohm cans.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I pulled out the K240M and the WA6 is actually a much better choice for the 600 ohm cans.


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I pulled out the K240M and the WA6 is actually a much better choice for the 600 ohm cans._

 

Thanks for the tip. The WA6 is way over my budget though. I have been reading about the LD MK111 and the Darkforce 336 because they are within my $250 limit. What do you think of them as far as the 600Ohm DT880s go? Your thoughts have already been very helpful in some of my purchases so far.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My 336i was better with my 300 ohm HD600 and 600 ohm AKG K240M than with my low impedance Grado, Denon and Ultrasone, and with those low impedance cans the EF1 was better in side by side comparisons. 336i wasn't bad with the low impedance cans, but it was a different animal with the high impedance cans and the right tubes (Sylvania bad boy or VT-231 with Tung Sol 5998).

 I have not compared the EF2 side by side with the 336i, because I sold the 336i after I got the EF1 and WA6. I did try the EF2 side by side with the EF1 at CanJam when I traded my EF1 to get the EF2, and they sounded quite similar with the EF1 main advantage being a bit more power with 300-600 ohm cans or the 5-8 ohm HE-5. I have not tried a 600 ohm Beyer either, only the 600 ohm AKG.


----------



## dongringo

Thanks! That definitely helps. Much appreciated.


----------



## Gorthon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go for these:

 2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes

 Only $20/pair, and they sound great. It's what I use in mine. Best bang for the buck. I have the WE 403B, but didn't think they were as good as the Mullard, and they are expensive._

 

Ordered my EF2 on Tuesday (1/19) night.

 It sounds like these would be a good replacement tube alternative. 

 Any other suggestions?

 I will be using Grado's for my listening pleasure.


----------



## Faheem

I ordered the 2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes. They have been shipped from Taiwan ,let's see how long they take to reach India.


----------



## RichieLitt

I just got a uDAC to go with my EF2, and I don't understand what's happening...The headphones sound better out of just the udac rather than when I connect both of them.


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a uDAC to go with my EF2, and I don't understand what's happening...The headphones sound better out of just the udac rather than when I connect both of them._

 

What kind of headphones are you using with it and how long have you burnt in the amp for?


----------



## BigIron

I just ordered one on 1/20 for my D5000. I'm currently using a Musiland 02 US DAC and Zhaolu D2 discrete amp, I hope I won't be disappointed


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a uDAC to go with my EF2, and I don't understand what's happening...The headphones sound better out of just the udac rather than when I connect both of them._

 

You left the stock tubes in the EF2?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

All this talk has convinced me to do an upgrade from the stock tubes. Plus it won't be expensive.

 I am reading some about these:

2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Jan-24-10 13:20:14 PST)

 ...and some general electric ones here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GE-5654W-6AK5-EF...item53dad8dd9c

 Any more opinions or suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## ufotofu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All this talk has convinced me to do an upgrade from the stock tubes. Plus it won't be expensive.

 I am reading some about these:

2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Jan-24-10 13:20:14 PST)

 Any more opinions or suggestions? Thanks._

 

I ordered from teh link above. Pending no problems with the order I will post my findings after reasonable burn-in.


----------



## happyxix

How is the EF2 with the D5000 or D7000? I know it is supposed to power Denons pretty well but after getting the EF2 and the Pico DAC, all I need is a headphone that goes well with the setup.


----------



## boomy3555

All of the Denons love the tube hybrids. But if you havn't heard the Denons yet find a meet or somewhere else to try them first. Like many brands of headphones there can be a "Love it or Hate it" opinion. Most people love the Denons but they are definitely "Fun" flavorful cans so if you are looking for a more "Flat" reference style sound signature. you may want to stear towards the Grados, Audiotechnica, or AKG's.

 Perhaps you could update your profile to show us where you are located (you don't have to be exact), and what gear you already have.


----------



## happyxix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All of the Denons love the tube hybrids. But if you havn't heard the Denons yet find a meet or somewhere else to try them first. Like many brands of headphones there can be a "Love it or Hate it" opinion. Most people love the Denons but they are definitely "Fun" flavorful cans so if you are looking for a more "Flat" reference style sound signature. you may want to stear towards the Grados, Audiotechnica, or AKG's.

 Perhaps you could update your profile to show us where you are located (you don't have to be exact), and what gear you already have._

 

I heard the Denons have really good bass response which I am kind feel lacking in the HD595. I have only the ES7 to compare to in bass and those headphones are pretty fun thus they are used for my portable gear. 

 I'm also located in the Sacremento/Davis area of California


----------



## boomy3555

I was stationed at Travis in the early 80's. There's a meet coming up in the bay area in Feb.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f24/no...2010-a-461831/

 They are really fun to go to . Even with a limited gear list everyone is always welcome to come and listen. But none the less the Denon Bass is quite "Out There" and some call it "Boomy" but it can be tamed with only slight modifications and many including myself, like it the way it is.


----------



## Kayk

I've been trying out this amp for the past week or so, and I love it. However I have a quick question, what is the lifespan on these tubes? I have a few backup tubes, but I was hoping these would last me a long time. Also, is it alright to leave the amp on when I'm not using it? I try to keep it off when I'm not using it as it gets a bit warm, but sometimes I forget and I'm not sure how much I should be paying attention to it.


----------



## Skylab

Normally with tubes you can expect at least 5,000 use. Sometimes many, many.


----------



## daigo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All this talk has convinced me to do an upgrade from the stock tubes. Plus it won't be expensive.

 I am reading some about these:

 ...and some general electric ones here:
GE 5654W 6AK5 EF95 - 2 MATCHED NOS YAQIN 6J1 Little Dot - eBay (item 360153931164 end time Feb-03-10 13:43:26 PST)

 Any more opinions or suggestions? Thanks._

 

I have a few of those GE 6AK5 tubes (ok, more like 6 of them since I gambled and bought a group of 6AK5 tubes from an ebay seller who had the boxes for them and all). 

 Comparing them to the stock Chinese tubes that came with the EF2, you'll get a bit more impact in bass (bordering on harsh) and depth in the midrange. Would be great if you listened to mainly instrumental music. I didn't like male vocals with it though, made them sound a bit shrill. 

 I use RCA 6AK5's in my EF2 since all vocals sound great while still providing improvement to the bass and airiness to the mids.


----------



## RichieLitt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You left the stock tubes in the EF2?_

 

Yeah for now. I have some of the 6ak5 mullards coming eventually though


----------



## Kayk

Are there any other good tubes besides the 6AK5s?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Mullard CV4010


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I know there several of you guys have ordered the mullard 6ak5's. Please let us know how you like them. Thanks.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, is it all right to leave the amp on when I'm not using it? I try to keep it off when I'm not using it as it gets a bit warm, but sometimes I forget and I'm not sure how much I should be paying attention to it._

 

If you don't use it for more than one hour, switch it off. The lifetime of a tube varies greatly and depends on several factors. Overheating due to constant load can reduce the life length of a tube.


----------



## grahamnp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard CV4010_

 

+1 for that

 I've had mine for about a week and they fix everything I don't like about the EF2 (just the brightness) and retain all that I do like.


----------



## ufotofu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard CV4010_

 

I just received my Mullard CV4010s yesterday. After cleaning the sockets with some Flitz metal polish (great stuff) and then polishing clean with Isopropyl I popped them in. I noticed one of the Chinese 6L1 stock tubes with a significant portion of cloudy glass. I don't know if this is good, bad or just ugly (anyone?).

 I have, of course, been burning the Mullard 4010s in (got about 5hrs on them last night). About 2 hrs into the burn I gave them a listen. My first impression was as follows: a definite bump in bass around 60-70Hz. Not as much detail, though. The midrange seems to have more presence. The highs are not as detailed and I notice quite a bit of sibilance. The soundstage has definitely opened up and the overall sound has more liquid character to it. At this point, I give a nod to the stock tubes with about 150hrs on them. Although, the stock tubes don't really match well with the brightness of my SR80s. I'm hoping the 4010s will tame that aspect of them just a touch.

 I'll post more of my experience as I get more time on the 4010s...probably need 100 hrs at least and then A-B them both again.

 I'm looping ad nauseum with FLACs of mostly jazz (Medeski, Martin & Wood; Christian McBride, Pat Metheny, Headhunters, Return to Forever, Marcus Miller and some Diane Krall for good measure).


----------



## Faheem

Even I received my Mullard CV4010 tubes 2 days back , will post the impressions once Ive done a few hrs of burn in and listening on it.

 As of now , out of the box I like them more than the stock tubes,as these tubes are not as bright as the stock. Well controlled bass with thump ,smooth and more warmer midrange and well defined highs as well. A definite ad easily noticeable improvement compared to the stock ones


----------



## Faheem

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufotofu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I noticed one of the Chinese 6L1 stock tubes with a significant portion of cloudy glass. I don't know if this is good, bad or just ugly (anyone?)._

 

Even I noticed the cloudy layer in the stock tubes while replacing them .Is this something to worry about or is it normal ?


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Faheem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even I noticed the cloudy layer in the stock tubes while replacing them. Is this something to worry about or is it normal?_

 

Not really. It is rather a sign of poor manufacturing quality. A really perfect tube should be completely clear, particularly if it is new. The Russian tubes are here comparatively better. Possible questions to this topic are comprehensively answered in this article.


----------



## ozron

OK so after reading through this whole thread I decided to jump in and order one of these little beauties as well. Turned up last week and I've really been enjoying them with my Alessandro MS-1i, running off my MacBook Pro via USB. 

 Interestingly I haven't found the stock tubes to be overly bright, but I've just ordered a pair of the Mullard CV4010's anyway. Definitely looking forward to the improvement they'll bring. Overall extremely happy with the EF2A so far. Definitely very musical.

 I've found much of my music (all lossless 16 & 24 bit) has been given a new lease of life. Looking forward to picking up a good DAC down the track which can passthru 24/96+ over optical.

 Many many thanks to everyone for their feedback and suggestions, especially HeadphoneAddict and Skylab.

 However now looking for a good quality LOD cable with RCA plugs. Would prefer not to pay more than about US$50. Any recommendations? Thanks.

 Ronny


----------



## richbass

Hows the amp section as compared to D10 ?
 Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richbass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hows the amp section as compared to D10 ?
 Thanks_

 

More powerful and really nice with my HD600, and I would prefer to feed the D10 into the EF-2 with upgraded tubes than listen to D10 by itself with those. With IEM the D10 is a little more detailed and spacious, whether with iPod or built-in amp; with varying warmth depending on the opamps (just like a tube amp varies with tubes). With stock opamps the D10 sounds like a desktop amp in tone (Predator clone), but not power. I gave my 12 yr old son a choice of using the D10, uDAC or EF-2 with his HF-2 and Macbook, and he picked the EF-2. He lets me borrow it if I want. :-|


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Every time this thread pops up again it makes me want to get the uDac and those mullard tubes. I'll probably pick up the tubes sometimes soon.

 Will the tubes make a bigger difference than feeding the EF2 with the uDac?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I have RCA tubes coming in. I will post my findings soon.


----------



## chevman

I swapped out the stock tubes with a pair of NOS GE 6AK5. To be honest, can't really tell much difference (yet?).

 I have a pair of NOS Mullard's coming this week. Going to try those out too.


----------



## boomy3555

The only tubes I have that sounded noticably different from the stock are the Mullard CV4010's and Ratheon 6Ak5's. The Mullards being the greater warmth of the two. Both required extensive burn in > 100 hrs


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chevman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I swapped out the stock tubes with a pair of NOS GE 6AK5. To be honest, can't really tell much difference (yet?)._

 

I am afraid of this with my new tubes. Alot of head-fiers make the smallest differences seem huge.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am afraid of this with my new tubes. Alot of head-fiers make the smallest differences seem huge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This has been my experience as well. This holds me back from getting a new amp, or maybe new headphones, but I feel that tubes are a necessity. My stock ones will burn out eventually and need to be replaced, so spending $20 for the Mullards is so much easier to justify than getting a $500 amp or DAC.

 Budget hi-fi may seem like an oxymoron, but its pretty much the name of the game for me.


----------



## hycanth

Tagging for future reference.


----------



## aszental

Im debating to get an AD-900 or a Hd-650, with one of these amps... What do you guys think?


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Ordered my Mullards yesterday, I'm curious to hear them!


----------



## mmd8x28

Anyone have any mullards their willing to sell? i looked online and don't really have $20 for a single tube, or $35 for a pair.

 But would love to try a pair of mullards.. NOS or lightly used.. Don't have much money to spend, lost my unemployment checks (and can't find a job), but I'll spend $15 max hopefully.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Feb-23-10 13:20:14 PST)

 These are $20 a pair if you don't mind the extra $5.


----------



## mmd8x28

Will be a tight budget I'll think about it..

 I might try and see if the local ham radio convention still goes on here..


----------



## grahamnp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have any mullards their willing to sell? i looked online and don't really have $20 for a single tube, or $35 for a pair.

 But would love to try a pair of mullards.. NOS or lightly used.. Don't have much money to spend, lost my unemployment checks (and can't find a job), but I'll spend $15 max hopefully._

 


 I bought mine from here: eBay.com.my: CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 - NOS - MULLARD - x 2 (item 290385745381 end time Jan 13, 2010 06:47:52 MYT)


----------



## jasonwc

I'm looking to upgrade from my Grado SR-60 to a Sennheiser HD-580 and an Amp/DAC combo. This will be my first amp. I've been considering the EF2, the Maverick D-1, the Aune MK2, and the Zero 2009 w/ USB & OPA627. 

 I mainly listen to baroque period classical music and I'm not sure whether to go with a solid state or a tube amp. The description of the EF2 as "warm" and "musical" is appealing to me, but I just don't have a reference point of comparison since I've never listened to a SS or tube amp. Can anyone describe the differences, and whether one is preferable for classical music?

 In addition, I just wanted to clarify that the EF2 is indeed powerful enough to drive an HD-580 or HD-600 to acceptably loud volume levels. Some of the reviews of the Maverick D-1 prefer that unit for its more powerful amp, and I'm wondering how much this matters. Will the loudness be a concern with the 580s?

 Of course, any direct comparisons with the Zero (2009 w/ OPA627 or otherwise), Maverick D-1, or Aune MK2 would be helpful. Thanks again. Sorry I'm a newb. I've been reading up but there's so much to learn!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jasonwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking to upgrade from my Grado SR-60 to a Sennheiser HD-580 and an Amp/DAC combo. This will be my first amp. I've been considering the EF2, the Maverick D-1, the Aune MK2, and the Zero 2009 w/ USB & OPA627. 

 I mainly listen to baroque period classical music and I'm not sure whether to go with a solid state or a tube amp. The description of the EF2 as "warm" and "musical" is appealing to me, but I just don't have a reference point of comparison since I've never listened to a SS or tube amp. Can anyone describe the differences, and whether one is preferable for classical music?

 In addition, I just wanted to clarify that the EF2 is indeed powerful enough to drive an HD-580 or HD-600 to acceptably loud volume levels. Some of the reviews of the Maverick D-1 prefer that unit for its more powerful amp, and I'm wondering how much this matters. Will the loudness be a concern with the 580s?

 Of course, any direct comparisons with the Zero (2009 w/ OPA627 or otherwise), Maverick D-1, or Aune MK2 would be helpful. Thanks again. Sorry I'm a newb. I've been reading up but there's so much to learn!_

 

I have not heard any of the other amps you are considering. 

 It is possible for both SS or tube amps to be warm and musical, and for example the Nuforce uDAC is a warm and musical SS amp (with USB DAC like EF2, but not as powerful). Other SS amps wont be as warm and musical, but they can be upgraded with opamps like the OPA627 (Travagans Red for example). So, the Zero might fall in that category with OPA627 but I would only be guessing. Some SS amps can't be modified and may be slightly on the cool side, like Grahm Slee Novo, but even that can be warmed up with the right DAC to work great with HD580/600 (HR Micro DAC, uDAC, etc).

 I think that the EF2 has enough power for my HD600, and I like how it sounds with them as a budget amp. The EF2 does remind me a lot of the Travagans Red with OPA627 opamps, or the Qinpu A-3 tube hybrid with JAN GE 5670 tubes. There are amps out there with more power, but it costs extra. The HD580 should be very similar to my HD600, and I'd expect them to work well with EF2 or these others. The EF2 improves with a nicer set of tubes ($20-$30), and even more with a more detailed DAC like uDAC or Super Pro DAC707 optical DAC feeding it later.


----------



## boomy3555

It's so hard with so many options so close in price and so many opinions about OPamp this, and HDAM that, Tubes or no tubes. The EF2 is the only one of the above which uses the tube in the headphone out so if you only want one unit and want "Tubes" The EF2 would be you best bet. The Maverick would be more powerful but would reqiure you to run the Tube Pre-out to another amp to use the tube stage. The Maverick and Zero are very close in comparison of thier Solid State headphone out with IMHO a slight lead in the Maverick. The Audi GD "Fun" (formerly the Compass) can outshine Either the Maverick or Zero, but is just over 100.00 USD more and slightly larger.

 I don't know if this has helped or just given you even more to decide.


----------



## jasonwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's so hard with so many options so close in price and so many opinions about OPamp this, and HDAM that, Tubes or no tubes. The EF2 is the only one of the above which uses the tube in the headphone out so if you only want one unit and want "Tubes" The EF2 would be you best bet. The Maverick would be more powerful but would reqiure you to run the Tube Pre-out to another amp to use the tube stage. The Maverick and Zero are very close in comparison of thier Solid State headphone out with IMHO a slight lead in the Maverick. The Audi GD "Fun" (formerly the Compass) can outshine Either the Maverick or Zero, but is just over 100.00 USD more and slightly larger.

 I don't know if this has helped or just given you even more to decide._

 

Thanks for the info. Are you comparing to the old Zero or the new version with the OPA627 opamp?


----------



## boomy3555

New Version.


----------



## jasonwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New Version._

 

Thanks for the reply. I've read that the DAC is actually pretty good on the Zero. How does the DAC on the Maverick compare to the Zero and the EF2?

 Also, having never listened to a solid-state or tube amp, I don't really know what to expect regarding the difference between a tube and SS amp, so it's hard to tell if it's an advantage. I know what I'm looking for, however. I listen to classical, so I want something neutral that provides good detail and imaging.


----------



## mmd8x28

I got 4 new tubes on it to try. Hytron, and Tung-Sol.

 The Hytron is 1945 NOS/NIB, US Army style 6ak5. I'm burning them in now.. They REALLY pick up outside vibrations easily like a microphone. Also adds a very interesting soundstage.

 Not "bad" microphonics, but kinda contributing to a unique sound it seems.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/tubes217.jpg
 (Tubes in the pic are the stock 6j1's.. I won't be using them anymore except a backup..)


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got 4 new tubes on it to try. Hytron, and Tung-Sol.

 The Hytron is 1945 NOS/NIB, US Army style 6ak5. I'm burning them in now.. They REALLY pick up outside vibrations easily like a microphone. Also adds a very interesting soundstage.

 Not "bad" microphonics, but kinda contributing to a unique sound it seems._

 

Nice! I can't wait to start rolling in some new tubes. 

 I'm trying to find a good pair of Hytrons... read that they sound great.

 I've pretty much completed my trial with the stock Chinese 6J1s. They're not bad for stock tubes at all. I definitely don't like the overly forward highs though.

 I should have some Mullard M8100s and GE 5 Stars coming in.


----------



## mmd8x28

Try and get some Hytrons from where I just bought mine at. Yea, I went to their office to hand pick the tube, but you can try asking..

Vacuum Tubes - Audio Tubes - ESRC Vacuum Tubes - Electron Tubes

 Best of all, the 6ak5's, ALL of them, $3 a pop!! I just can't see beating that price! I bought 4.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I just got some RCA 6AK5's. I notice no difference right now, but I have not ABed them yet.


----------



## mmd8x28

You know, you could put tube A in the left, and tube B in the right.. Each tube is one channel, left is left, and right is right... The filaments seem to be wired in a series, as if one tube is missing, the other won't "burn".


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jasonwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply. I've read that the DAC is actually pretty good on the Zero. How does the DAC on the Maverick compare to the Zero and the EF2?

 Also, having never listened to a solid-state or tube amp, I don't really know what to expect regarding the difference between a tube and SS amp, so it's hard to tell if it's an advantage. I know what I'm looking for, however. I listen to classical, so I want something neutral that provides good detail and imaging._

 


 As DAC's, I can't tell much, if any difference between any of them. The EF2, Zero, or Maverick. arr pretty much the same as DACs. The differences come in the little bit of extra power that the Zero and Maverick give in thier Solid State headphone stages and the conveniece of using the Zero and Maverick as audio switching. In thier price range they are all pretty close with the advantage for me going to the EF2 for the ability to "Roll Tubes". I now have the EF2,Zero,Maverick and the Compass as well but I have them mainly to take to meets for others to A/B.
 My EF 2 is still my "Go To" amp as all my cans are low impedence.I have just recieved a couple of Headphonia DAC cables which are usb powered external sound cards with Wolfson DAC's inline in a cable in both USB to 3.5 and USB to Dual RCA. So Far still just listening. I haven't had any time to compae them to all of the onboard DACs of these amps.


----------



## jasonwc

boomy3555,

 I saw that you stated earlier that you didn't think the EF2 was a good choice for the high impedance Senns. I assume this includes the 580/600. So, would you recommend the Maverick D1 over the EF2 for such cans? Thanks.

 Based on the info I've read, I've narrowed my choices down to the D1 and the EF2. The former is more versatile with the greater number of inputs, but I think I would like a tube amp. However, if the EF2 won't be sufficiently powerful, the D1 is probably a better choice. The D1 is meant to power 600 Ohm cans, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 EDIT: Posted before I saw your response. Thanks


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jasonwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_boomy3555,

 I saw that you stated earlier that you didn't think the EF2 was a good choice for the high impedance Senns. I assume this includes the 580/600. So, would you recommend the Maverick D1 over the EF2 for such cans? Thanks.

 Based on the info I've read, I've narrowed my choices down to the D1 and the EF2. The former is more versatile with the greater number of inputs, but I think I would like a tube amp. However, if the EF2 won't be sufficiently powerful, the D1 is probably a better choice. The D1 is meant to power 600 Ohm cans, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 EDIT: Posted before I saw your response. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The EF2 has plenty of power for high impedance headphones.


----------



## jasonwc

Thanks - now my choice is being made even harder . By the way, does the EF2 do bit-perfect 16/44.1 output over USB, or does it upconvert to 16/48 or 24/96 first?

 I take it that you're happy with the HD580 + EF2 combo.


----------



## mmd8x28

I saw these headphones at FYE, Sony bassy headphones.. I think the frequency range was as low as 4Hz. They went for $79, and the ear pads were HUUUUUGE..

 Stay away, or save up for?

 Thinking about more headphones for my EF2...


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jasonwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks - now my choice is being made even harder . By the way, does the EF2 do bit-perfect 16/44.1 output over USB, or does it upconvert to 16/48 or 24/96 first?

 I take it that you're happy with the HD580 + EF2 combo._

 

I live my EF2 - RCA tubes - HD580. It still impresses me every day. I just have a hard time when comparing it to other sources/amps. I can't really put my hand on the differences, I just know I am getting pretty good sound with this entry level rig.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw these headphones at FYE, Sony bassy headphones.. I think the frequency range was as low as 4Hz. They went for $79, and the ear pads were HUUUUUGE..

 Stay away, or save up for?

 Thinking about more headphones for my EF2..._

 

Bassy headphones ...eeKK stay away. I used to be a bass head, but I have come to appreciate clear and balanced sound. Its hard at first, but you will never come back!

 First decide if you need open or closed headphones.. then I can help you from there.
 The Sennheiser HD audiophile series have wonderful sound, but leak and incredible amount of it so are only appropriate for listening in a quite room (which is all I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## mmd8x28

I like closed, the ones that go over your ears, not on them..

 I do like bass though, I strive on it especially when making bass rhythms in songs that I do, I like to hear them loud when I play them.


----------



## jasonwc

Also, what's a good source for the NOS Raytheon 6AK5? The Mullard CV4010 is available for $20 shipped (pair), but the cheapest I could find the Raytheon's were $48. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.


----------



## mmd8x28

Contact the place I got my Hytron 6ak5's from.

Vacuum Tubes - Audio Tubes - ESRC Vacuum Tubes - Electron Tubes

 I am sure they have Raytheons. I saw some boxes, but don't know if they were 6ak5's.. Just contact to make sure they have it first.


----------



## jasonwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Contact the place I got my Hytron 6ak5's from.

Vacuum Tubes - Audio Tubes - ESRC Vacuum Tubes - Electron Tubes

 I am sure they have Raytheons. I saw some boxes, but don't know if they were 6ak5's.. Just contact to make sure they have it first._

 

Thanks, I sent an email asking if they have any Raytheon's in stock.


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Contact the place I got my Hytron 6ak5's from.

Vacuum Tubes - Audio Tubes - ESRC Vacuum Tubes - Electron Tubes

 I am sure they have Raytheons. I saw some boxes, but don't know if they were 6ak5's.. Just contact to make sure they have it first._

 

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like closed, the ones that go over your ears, not on them..

 I do like bass though, I strive on it especially when making bass rhythms in songs that I do, I like to hear them loud when I play them._

 

Over the ears is separate from open and closed. You can get closed headphones both on ear and over the hear.

 Likewise you can get open headphones both on ear and over ear.

 I would look into the Ultrasone HFI 580/780. They are closed over the ear with clear sound and powerful bass.


----------



## mmd8x28

Woo, way to expensive.. I'm not rich or near it.. Price of those headphones were price in my checking account.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

You can get HFI 580 for under 80 used in great shape. Also, headphones are the most important part of your setup. If you spend 200 on the EF2 and who knows how much on the Onkyo, you should have good headphones. Sonny bassy headphones with all that amp seems silly.


----------



## mmd8x28

The Onkyo has actually only been used for 8 ohm pioneer SE-2P headphones.. All other cans have been fine being directly run by the EF2. Onkyo was also handed down to me from my father, it was his originally.

 I'll try to find the HFI-580 used..


----------



## mmd8x28

Hmm.. Sexy tubes!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tuberunef2.jpg

 Those are the 1945 Hytrons.. Burning them in right now with IEM's in my ears..


----------



## jasonwc

For those that are interested:

Vacuum Tubes - Audio Tubes - ESRC Vacuum Tubes - Electron Tubes has the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes in stock for $3 each, plus shipping (~$2 for USPS). Nice deal.


----------



## mmd8x28

Awesome, glad to have found a good priced deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I skipped on shipping and drove there myself, they literally have a warehouse full of tubes. It was HEAVEN.


----------



## jasonwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's so hard with so many options so close in price and so many opinions about OPamp this, and HDAM that, Tubes or no tubes. The EF2 is the only one of the above which uses the tube in the headphone out so if you only want one unit and want "Tubes" The EF2 would be you best bet. The Maverick would be more powerful but would reqiure you to run the Tube Pre-out to another amp to use the tube stage. The Maverick and Zero are very close in comparison of thier Solid State headphone out with IMHO a slight lead in the Maverick. The Audi GD "Fun" (formerly the Compass) can outshine Either the Maverick or Zero, but is just over 100.00 USD more and slightly larger.

 I don't know if this has helped or just given you even more to decide._

 

Would you say the Compass w/ the Earth HDAM module would be superior to both the Maverick and the EF2? It's been described as neutral-sounding which is what I want. Would $250 be a good deal for a used unit in good condition? Not sure what they normally go for.


----------



## mmd8x28

YouTube - Hifiman EF2 Review

 I have reviewed my EF2..


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jasonwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you say the Compass w/ the Earth HDAM module would be superior to both the Maverick and the EF2? It's been described as neutral-sounding which is what I want. Would $250 be a good deal for a used unit in good condition? Not sure what they normally go for._

 

The EF2 is a tube hybrid and although it does not have the multi-channel inputs or IMHO, the power of the others, it has the tube rolling option as it's advantage. The Maverick has a tube stage but only to the tube pre-out so another amp is required to roll tube in it. My first choice is still the EF2 because I don't need alot of power and I love tubes. My Choice for Solid State is the Compass/Fun even though it's more expensive than the Maverick or Zero. I would not choose any of them for the quality of thier DAC's as much more superior DAC's can be had for 100-200. The newest of which that I am just trying out is the Headphonia DAC cable with a Wolfson chip for 59.00 shipped.

 250.00 is about average for a used Compass. The Earth HDAM is more neutral than the Moon or Sun, but I prefer the Moon. If you email KingWa at Audio GD they may still have one or two Compasses left in stock even though they list only the "Fun" now. I got mine directly from Audio GD for 269.00 plus shipping.

 Chinese New Year is just ending so it may take a bit for them to answer your email.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

In terms of audio quality, how does a dac make music sound better compared to how does an amp makes it sound better?


----------



## mmd8x28

I know the answer to this, but not "how" to answer it.. I'm afraid to even try cause it may come out all wrong.


----------



## boomy3555

A loaded question, but I'll take a stab at it.

 The quality of the DAC determines the quality of the analog signal. The analog signal is recieved by the amp and increased in intensity by the amplifier and delivered to the output, either speaker or headphone. True audiophiles will tell you that if you can accomplish this task without changing any of the original audio signature then you have accomplished audio heaven. But as with many things head-Fi, what is considered enjoyable is as subjective as sweetness is to the tastebuds. The are many opinions about what is more important but every stage of the process is subjective and until you finally find the combination of gear that makes you happy, the search goes on. and as with anything in life, most of us can only explore within our budget.


----------



## Stein

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but this IS an EF2, so maybe it belongs here.
 So just the other day I noticed this white...stuff on top of one of the caps inside my ef2, but I'm not quite sure if it's coming FROM it or if it's just kind of there. I have yet to open up the amp because frankly, I'm just afraid of messing something up. Any idea what it is? :S


----------



## boomy3555

I would suspect that if there is any type of moisture in the air any minerals in that moisture may be accumulating atop the flat surfaces and visible once the water vapor evaporates. This is one of the reasons we used to go through so many TV's when I was a kid living at the beach with a high salt content in the air. It happens and is probably only notice more because of the plexiglass top the EF2 has and would not be seen with other closed top amps. If concerned, I would unplug the amp, remove the top and clean the area with an alchohol dipped Q-Tip.


----------



## mmd8x28

Lol, that's not white stuff.

 that's glue holding the voltage regulator against the case, securing the bolt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine has it too: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/glue.jpg

 So please, DON'T try and remove it.


----------



## aristos_achaion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In terms of audio quality, how does a dac make music sound better compared to how does an amp makes it sound better?_

 

A DAC is responsible for taking your digital input and converting it to analog output. A good DAC produces nicer analog output, and doesn't have as much electronic noise interference as an internal computer soundcard. Same principle as having a better CD player back before we used computers for these things.

 It can definitely, definitely make a difference...a good DAC can completely change a pair of headphones (my SR225's are practically unlistenable without a good source).


----------



## mmd8x28

My EF2 always seems to have a buzzing sound when plugged into the cable boxes audio output.

 Hmm, ferrite core doesn't help it..


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Thanks for some of these answers on dacs. What I am really wanting to get at is what would I expect to hear different if I hooked up something like a uDAC to the EF2 compared to the stock burr brown DAC?


----------



## mmd8x28

Well, when I listen to different DACs, I listen to the high notes and see how bad the quantization of the sound is (i think that's the word).. Like, dithering for low color images, but for audio. For example, if I load my software synthesizer, and hit very high notes on a DAC, they sound distorted poorly, like screeching nails on a chalk board. A good DAC doesn't, and just tickles the ear with only a nice high sound.. (when i say high note, i mean, borderline of not audible to humans)..

 What i "was" going to say, was a good DAC represents a waveform more accurately than a cheaper DAC.

 For you Carl, I'd honestly not know how you'd tell.. Perhaps listen to a song with a sax and flute, and something deep like a cello, and hear how "well" they are presented?

 (I mean, technically my MacPro has a better built in DAC than the EF2. My MacPro's DAC can do 24-bit 96KHz, and I've tested it to be fairly accurate, where the EF2 is only 16-bit 48KHz at max. I only use the EF2's DAC to not have ANY analog audio grounding problems, and since ALL of my music library is 16-bit 44KHz..)


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for some of these answers on dacs. What I am really wanting to get at is what would I expect to hear different if I hooked up something like a uDAC to the EF2 compared to the stock burr brown DAC?_

 


 I bit farther back in the thread is a link to Headphone Addict's review where he compares just that. The onboard DAC is minimal and many have opted to use external DACs into the EF2's analog input

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ef-1-a-375903/


----------



## mmd8x28

Oh, Carl, something you can do for test in addition to hearing how well different instruments are presented, listen for noise and just overall distortion.

 I had tried out a DAC earlier that actually had bass presented in the mids, and very "choppy" sounding too.. Was unique.

 SNR is up to the DAC.. So how much noise to actual sound. Like, I could make a WAV file that has ZERO sound, complete flatline, and force the DAC to be active and not idle, and see how much hiss it presents.. Good should be nothing, cheap will have some a little noise in the background. (I once had a DAC SO bad years ago, that moving the mouse cursor created a buzzing sound.. Funny)

 Not only that, if I'm actually reading the THD and SNR correctly, my MacPro's DAC is vastly better.

 Samplerate: 44,1 KHz, 48 KHz or 96 KHz
 16bit, 24bit
 SNR: More than 130dB
 THD+N: Less than -130dB (0.00003%)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for some of these answers on dacs. What I am really wanting to get at is what would I expect to hear different if I hooked up something like a uDAC to the EF2 compared to the stock burr brown DAC?_

 

Search results that can help: Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Search Results

 Searching this thread for uDAC helped me find the following:

REVIEW: Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC - Page 40 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

REVIEW: Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC - Page 43 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6218446-post643.html

REVIEW: Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC - Page 44 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

REVIEW: Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC - Page 47 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

REVIEW: Head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2 tube Hybrid Amp with USB DAC - Page 53 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## Rainbow Randy

Has anyone tried using a USB switch for two computers with the EF2? I'm thinking about getting a second PC and am wondering if this might present any issues.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Ah, my Mullard tubes came into today. Yay.

 I want to listen to them for a few weeks before I do any real comparisons. I'm guessing both the tubes and my ears need to do a bit of burning in.


----------



## boomy3555

Mullards especiialy will require a good burn in, about 100 hrs to open up. Listen every 10 hrs or so and you'll be amazed at the changes.


----------



## BryanP

The Mullards are taking quite awhile to come in... however I've rolled 2 other pair of tubes into the EF2 with surprising results.

 I've experimented (paired with a uDAC and monitored using an HD600) using GE 5 stars and Hytron JHY-6AK5 (WWII era tubes) and all I can say is that the Hytrons kick some major ass.

 For me, I'm not really a fan of the brightness of the high frequencies with the 5 stars. It was very sparkly at the top (brighter than the stock chinese tubes) and had tons of details but at times I felt like it was too bright for me. The detail was for sure amazing though and gave a great perception of separation between the instruments.

 However, the JHY-6AK5 Hytrons tamed the top end very well and retained a good amount of the detail. If anything, it synergizes well with almost all my headphones compared to my other tubes (GE 5 star and stock China 6J1s).

 I have a pair of Sylvania JAN-CH5-6AK5s that I will probably try out later on after I've burned these in thoroughly...

 Up to this point the Hytrons are my most favorite since they're the most balanced and accurate in comparison to all the tubes I've owned.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullards especiialy will require a good burn in, about 100 hrs to open up. Listen every 10 hrs or so and you'll be amazed at the changes._

 

Thanks for the info, I'll keep the burn in going. Hopefully my HF-2's will be here sometime in the next few days so I can overlap the burn-in as much as possible.


----------



## Head Injury

Hey, I'll ask here since you guys probably know a lot about this amp.

 What would be a better investment for an HF-2, an EF2 (with or without a uDac) or a Little Dot 1+ (definitely with uDac)? This is assuming stock tubes all around, so sorry to interrupt your rolling discussion.


----------



## mmd8x28

My Hytron JHY-6AK5 from 1945 may not be lasting for long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Though they are still sounding great, the getter is showing some greyish rings, starting to look oxidized "slightly" with some pitted dots. Oh well, guess it couldn't last FOREVER.


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Hytron JHY-6AK5 from 1945 may not be lasting for long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though they are still sounding great, the getter is showing some greyish rings, starting to look oxidized "slightly" with some pitted dots. Oh well, guess it couldn't last FOREVER._

 

I have the same ones!

 I feel like I have to search hard for some more of these too, cause like you said, they will be dying.

 That's why I'm trying to enjoy the heck out of them while I can!


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BryanP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the same ones!

 I feel like I have to search hard for some more of these too, cause like you said, they will be dying.

 That's why I'm trying to enjoy the heck out of them while I can! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...weredragon.jpg

 Those are my Hytrons..

 You're come in the same box? (The hytron box, not the Philco and 6J1 tube in the pic)

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...weredragon.jpg


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...weredragon.jpg

 Those are my Hytrons..

 You're come in the same box? (The hytron box, not the Philco and 6J1 tube in the pic)

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...weredragon.jpg_

 

Yep has the same plant as well (edit: not too aware which other plants they used before CBS purchased them... so what I said may not be of any value if that's the case lol) . The box was sealed with a US Navy stamp on the right box flaps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love how punchy the bass is on these particular tubes compared to all the other tubes I've owned. I probably won't be touching the others for awhile though... one particular pair I'm really curious about is a pair of Telefunkens, but they're so hard to find without having super inflated prices (hell, hard to find regardless).


----------



## mmd8x28

Yea, the bass is very hard hitting, which is why I love them.. Natural bass amplification, not something fake.

 I actually had to ditch my minidisc player as a DAC, cause the bass was TOO strong. Right now, I'm actually stuck what I want to use as a DAC right now.. Very confused.. I have 3 choices.. 1 is dismissed (the minidisc). 1 is my computers built in DAC which is over 130db SNR, and the DAC built into the EF2..

 PS: Mine also have the navy stamp on the side, with "US" on both sides of the anchor, and the tube model above.


----------



## Stein

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmd8x28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, that's not white stuff.

 that's glue holding the voltage regulator against the case, securing the bolt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine has it too: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ragon/glue.jpg

 So please, DON'T try and remove it._

 

Haha, alright. Yours seems normal, whereas mine seems to be a bit overkill, but glue is glue. Thanks.


----------



## RichieLitt

I still feel like my HFI 780 sounds better when I just use the udac instead of combining the two. I really don't understand it.


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still feel like my HFI 780 sounds better when I just use the udac instead of combining the two. I really don't understand it._

 

Equipment synergy. The colored sound from the tubes probably doesn't yield to your likings.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still feel like my HFI 780 sounds better when I just use the udac instead of combining the two. I really don't understand it._

 

The Ultrasone HFI series are pretty easy to power. Headrooms review of them even says they sound great out of an ipod. I have used HFI 580 with the EF2 and I didnt notice much, but it was only a short time. I would A/B them more with the EF2 for a while longer with different types of music. If a month from now you still feel the same, you can sell the EF2.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Stein, How do you like the k701's with the EF2? Also what improvement do you get with the uDAC over the EF2's DAC? Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still feel like my HFI 780 sounds better when I just use the udac instead of combining the two. I really don't understand it._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BryanP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Equipment synergy. The colored sound from the tubes probably doesn't yield to your likings._

 

Richie, what tubes are you using in the EF2? Having owned the HFI-780 in the past, I would have guessed the uDAC would work better with them than an EF2 with stock tubes. But I would guess the EF2 with my Raytheon 6AK5 tubes would work just as well (not accounting for the uDAC's extra detail).


----------



## RichieLitt

I got the upgraded raytheons


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the upgraded raytheons_

 

Interesting. This is one argument for not selling anything ever, because now I can't try my long gone HFI-780 with my EF2.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BryanP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Equipment synergy. The colored sound from the tubes probably doesn't yield to your likings._

 

colored sound? please explain what that means...


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_colored sound? please explain what that means... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The tubes can make the sound warmer or brighter (and this is inherent by design). Mullard M8100 tubes for example (yay, I got mine finally) sound relatively warm compared to the stock tubes that come with the EF2. 

 You can tell this almost immediately when you listen to the high frequencies. The stock tubes just pierced my ears much more than I liked (they're not bad, others may like this for certain type of music).

 It's very apparent with my more neutral headphones such as the SRH440 or even the KSC75s. 

 When I used the Hytron tubes (and more recently, Mullard tubes), the overall sound was changed. It's more warmer, with the highs not so piercing as with the other tubes. The bass is punchier as well, the punchiest out of all the tubes I own.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

ok, what is "warm" sound. I wish we could use normal terms here, not the silly "audiophile" ones, like warm or colored sound...

 Last time I check warm and colored in the dictionary it didn't mention anything about sound


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, what is "warm" sound. I wish we could use normal terms here, not the silly "audiophile" ones, like warm or colored sound...

 Last time I check warm and colored in the dictionary it didn't mention anything about sound_

 

There is a very good glossary for these words. It's not perfect as every person has his/hers own interpretation.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...0/#post2673350


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, what is "warm" sound. I wish we could use normal terms here, not the silly "audiophile" ones, like warm or colored sound...

 Last time I check warm and colored in the dictionary it didn't mention anything about sound_

 

A lot people actually use those terms to describe sound... 

 It's confusing at first, but hey, that's the way some people talk here so might as well absorb the language right? (I'm pretty sure everyone here had to at one point lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 In the most general manner, I like to think of cold as being "thin." This is very subjective because it requires a certain reference point ("cold in comparison to what?"). I like to think about it this way:

 It's just like being in front of a sound source producing both treble, mids, and bass. If you're directly right in front of it, you may be more sensitive to hearing the higher frequency noises if you're not obstructed by anything (like a wall). They may sound very defined, to the point where it might even drown the balance with the bass frequencies. If an instrument requires bass frequencies (in combination with the other freqs) to produce a certain tone, the other freqs might dominate the sound of the bass because of your location in respect to the source. This gives an impression as if the bass is "weaker." Because of this, the instrument's sound might not be "full bodied." Take in note that the sound is full bodied in nature (that's how the instrument works by design), the point is that it's your distance to the source that is altering the perception of it's true sound.

 Now if you step back more, what happens? It may sound more and more balanced. The farther you step away, there may be a point where the bass overpowers. This can occur due to many factors, but one good factor is that bass has the ability to travel longer distances due to it's wave. Air/objects dampens high frequency noises much more than low frequencies. Therefore, the farther you step away from a source, the more the bass "sounds like" it's taking over. If you step away too far, it will sound like the bass has completely taken over, only hearing bass "thumps" (you can even hear this maybe in cars with loud sub systems or outside of a club, where the mid-highs are completely obstructed only giving way to bass thumping). This is considered "warmer" sound in comparison to the other sounds.

 That is why with "warm sound" headphones, the bass may sound may seem "spilled" over other frequency ranges, where in "cold sounding" headphones, users usually talk about a "thin" or "analytical sound." If you think about why cold headphones may be relatively "analytical," it's mainly because you can hear miniscule high frequency/mid details more since the bass isn't clouding the sound. This is like revving a car engine. From within the car it may sound loud and bassy, but if you open the car hood and rev the car from in front of the engine (inducing throttle from the engine bay), the "bass sound" generally gets lighter because now your'e right in front of the engine and you're hearing how it "really" sounds... not clouded by the bass added by being inside the car.

 As you can tell though, these are all subject to a certain /reference point/. That reference point is basically the taste of the listener! That ratio of cold:warm where the user is happy with the sound differs between everyone. That is why cold and warm has to be in respect to something else. In this case, it's safe to say the Mullards are "warmer" than the stock tubes. To me the brightness has been rolled off in favor for a more bodied mid and bass. I personally like it that way, but others may feel that it is too "warm" for them, where they may look for tubes that put more emphasis on the higher frequencies.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Thanks, helps alot


----------



## mmd8x28

I like the warm sound.. I HATE cold sound. 

 I NEED MY BASS! Seriously, I like the bass tickling my ears (no, not loud).

 My test song for amp and DAC quality is Right Here Waiting from Richard Marx. Don't laugh, I just think the song has wonderful dynamics (original CD release, not any form of re-release).


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, what is "warm" sound. I wish we could use normal terms here, not the silly "audiophile" ones, like warm or colored sound...

 Last time I check warm and colored in the dictionary it didn't mention anything about sound_

 

Are you trying to pull off the long lost art of sarcasm, or are you just yanking our change. It looks like youv'e been around here long enough to know the lingo.


----------



## dmv915

Hey, just wondering if anyone could list some compatible tube codes for the EF2.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dmv915* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, just wondering if anyone could list some compatible tube codes for the EF2._

 

6AK5


----------



## Skylab

6AK5, CV4010, EF95, 5654


----------



## Stein

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stein, How do you like the k701's with the EF2? Also what improvement do you get with the uDAC over the EF2's DAC? Thanks_

 

Sorry about the late response~

 I'm actually pretty satisfied with the k701's through the EF2 and a uDAC. At first I was a bit unsure of the difference I was hearing between the EF2 dac and the uDAC, but after listening to each of them just now, the uDAC just sounds a good bit better. The sound with it is a fair amount warmer and seems to give the music a bit more presence, if that's the right word for it. My music just sounds a little more boring from the EF2's dac. Unfortunately, I can't really speak as to how these stack up to anything else, because I haven't really heard anything better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully you find this helpful.


----------



## Stein

After reading up a bit more in this thread, I just ordered myself some of those Mullard tubes. Very excited to hear those now.


----------



## grahamnp

How well does the EF2 power the 250ohm DT880? I can get the DT880 for a lot cheaper than it used to be and was just toying with the idea....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grahamnp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How well does the EF2 power the 250ohm DT880? I can get the DT880 for a lot cheaper than it used to be and was just toying with the idea...._

 

I don't know about the Beyer, but it has enough power for 300 ohm HD600 and HD800. (or at least more power with those than any of my portable amps, and similar power levels as the Qinpu A-3 and Travagans Red).


----------



## grahamnp

Thanks for that!


----------



## mmd8x28

What temps do the 6ak5's normally hit? My 1945 hytrons get to 145F from my IR thermometer..


----------



## boomy3555

Tube temps can be all over the board. My Mullards run much cooler than the TungSol.


----------



## mmd8x28

Oh ok.

 I'm still finding death metal finding a new quality with the '45 tubes. The guitars seem more "sharp". (When I say sharp, I mean the guitars are more standing out, more deathly actually)..

 Oh, and the new Gorillaz album sounded GREAT on my EF2 and '45 Hytron 6AK5's..


----------



## RichieLitt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. This is one argument for not selling anything ever, because now I can't try my long gone HFI-780 with my EF2._

 

Do you think it would be better once I get the 780s recabled? Maybe I should've just got the udac, seeing as how the 780s are low impedance. They sound much too bright with the ef2 in stock form.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think it would be better once I get the 780s recabled? Maybe I should've just got the udac, seeing as how the 780s are low impedance. They sound much too bright with the ef2 in stock form._

 

I don't want to take a guess and make a mistake.


----------



## Mr C

I'm going to upgrade the tubes on my EF2, the stock Chinese ones are fully burnt in now and the bass doesn't sound consistent enough for me (I'm using hd580's as primary cans).
 Should I get a pair of 61K5's or are there better tubes out there considering my cans?
 Also I live in europe so it'd be great if someone could recommend me an online shop that delivers in france.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RichieLitt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think it would be better once I get the 780s recabled? Maybe I should've just got the udac, seeing as how the 780s are low impedance. They sound much too bright with the ef2 in stock form._

 

The uDAC I have heard is somewhat dark which may pair well with the hfi780s.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I have been ABX testing my onboard sound to the EF2 and if there is a difference, its small and I can hardly tell. I have been using the EF2 for about 5 months now, and AB it off and on, but I have yet to hear anything substantial. If I throw the ipod in there, the difference is also minimal compared to both. The only substantial difference in audio I have heard (and a massive one at that) is switching from the HD485 to the HD580. VBR V2 or greater mp3's and lossless formats are also nice. Any Ideas...?


----------



## boomy3555

IMHO all onboard cards are pretty equal to the stock DAC in many of the amps in this range. EF2, Maverick, Zero, and Compass. The only appreciable difference I can fine with my EF2 is to change either the tubes ( Mullard CV4010 at the moment), or the cans or source. ( Denons VS Zerbarwoods, CD to analog in vs, USB from PC, ETC.). and further most Stand alone DAC's are only a slight improvement. To me, the first thing to do is find the cans that give you your "Go To" flavor and then improve your sources in the next step.. Ipod/DAP or USB from a netbook are convenient, but if I can, I just sit down and run Analog into the EF2 from my Marantz DVD/SACD player and I am the happiest.


----------



## boomy3555

I suppose I should Clarify my staement above.

 When I say most onboard sound cards are not appreciably better than the onboard DAC in these amps I meant that many of the cards such as the X-Fi are designed to enhance the audio in ways not usually appreciated in Audiophile. Equalizers and effects beyond what is capable with a DAC alone. If you think Tubes vs Solid State or Copper vs Silver is a touchy subject, imagine the subjective difference between multi level soundcards.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO all onboard cards are pretty equal the stock DAC in all of the amps in this range. EF2, Maverick, Zero, and Compass. The only appreciable difference I can fine with my EF2 is to change either the tubes ( Mullard CV4010 at the moment), or the cans or source. ( Denons VS Zerbarwoods, CD to analog in vs, USB from PC, ETC.). and further most Stand alone DAC's are only a slight improvement. To me, the first thing to do is find the cans that give you your "Go To" flavor and then improve your sources in the next step.. Ipod/DAP or USB from a netbook are convenient, but if I can, I just sit down and run Analog into the EF2 from my Marantz DVD/SACD player. I am the happiest._

 

When I used my EF2 with a cdplayer, it did have a slightly better sound than the amp build into the cd player. It sounded a bit more detailed, but even then, the difference was not profound like using different headphones is.


----------



## TobaccoRoad

so in other words ef2 is a piece of junk?


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TobaccoRoad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so in other words ef2 is a piece of junk?_

 

Where did you read that?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TobaccoRoad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so in other words ef2 is a piece of junk?_

 

No, I am still new and learning so what I say (and ask) doesn't mean that much in terms of accuracy.


----------



## mmd8x28

If synergy can be gained from cables, which I personally doubt it, I made my own RCA cables.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...n/rcacable.jpg

 Soldering on those RCA jacks was horrible, solder did NOT want to stick to it.


----------



## boomy3555

Soldering Paste helps the solder flow and if you use silver solder, you'll need more than just the generic Rat Shack soldering Iron.


----------



## mmd8x28

I was using a good soldering iron. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a Weller.. My solder melts quite quick, I don't use lead-free, I WANT the lead solder, easier to melt, doesn't whisker, just works..

 Thing is, those RCA jacks from rat shack take a while to actually get solder to flow, and once it does, the plastic insulator between center pin and ground shield, has melted..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs7qWZO-8sg


----------



## mmd8x28

Well here's what my 1945 Hytrons sound like on my EF2, with a minidisc recorder as a DAC via toslink. (see sig)

YouTube - Gorillaz iTunes LP Demo

 That's also with my home made RCA cables.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I have a Creative Soundblaster Extigy from about 10 years ago. Could the DAC in this device possibly be better than the one on the EF2? It is a 24 bit/96kHz DAC Philips UDA1328T. I have to use it as a preamp also, since there is no rca out (3.5mm to rca into EF2). The sound seems to be slightly warmer with the extigy, though not drastically different from some initial tests.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I know nothing about the Extigy. The PCM2702E Japan DAC in the EF2 is not the end-all DAC, but is usually an upgrade over the stock DAC built into most PC's. It's also the best of the PCM270X series of DACs. Lately the Burr Brown/TI PCM270X chips are used in upgraded DAC's as the USB receiver chip only, and only the S/PDIF or I2S is sent from the Burr Brown chip to a higher end Wolfson or Cirrus Logic or Analog Devices DAC chip. So, it's possible for an older 24/96 DAC chip to exceed the EF2 DAC, but the EF2 DAC exceeds that of many computers.


----------



## nightrhyme

So I thought I found my holy grale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After reading most of this thread I'm not so sure anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I was originally just going to buy a new soundcard and was contemplating the Asus Xonar d2X as I also game some.

 Then I saw the EF2a at head-direct and thought this might be it as I do listen to a lot of music by my pc on Grado sr60 and don't really care about EAX and the sorts. Stereo will do.

 But this entire thread seems focused on:
 - DAC part not too impressive, on par with onboard soundchips
 - Amp part not powerful enough
 - Tubes not good enough. Too bright, need to be changed
 - and this last guy who has trouble hearing difference between his onboard sound and the EF2

 Hmm I can hear clearly difference between my onboard asus p5kpremium chip and my audigy 2

 Didn't the Hifiman EF2 upgrade to EF2A enhance amp power ?

 I also miss direct comparison with dac/amps in same price range.
 Which is better: Nuforce uDac, EF2A, Firestone Fubar III USB DAC, Aune USB DAC/AMP ?

 Is it really that bad or are you guys just extremely critical ?

 Would love some advice ?

 Really just looking for best soundquality from my pc in this pricerange ?

 Should I just get a Asus xonar ?

 Thanx in advance

_Kind regards NR_


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightrhyme* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I thought I found my holy grale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After reading most of this thread I'm not so sure anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I was originally just going to buy a new soundcard and was contemplating the Asus Xonar d2X as I also game some.

 Then I saw the EF2a at head-direct and thought this might be it as I do listen to a lot of music by my pc on Grado sr60 and don't really care about EAX and the sorts. Stereo will do.

 But this entire thread seems focused on:
 - DAC part not too impressive, on par with onboard soundchips
 - Amp part not powerful enough
 - Tubes not good enough. Too bright, need to be changed
 - and this last guy who has trouble hearing difference between his onboard sound and the EF2

 Hmm I can hear clearly difference between my onboard asus p5kpremium chip and my audigy 2

 Didn't the Hifiman EF2 upgrade to EF2A enhance amp power ?

 I also miss direct comparison with dac/amps in same price range.
 Which is better: Nuforce uDac, EF2A, Firestone Fubar III USB DAC, Aune USB DAC/AMP ?

 Is it really that bad or are you guys just extremely critical ?

 Would love some advice ?

 Really just looking for best soundquality from my pc in this pricerange ?

 Should I just get a Asus xonar ?

 Thanx in advance

Kind regards NR_

 

I know nothing about how most PC sound, except the ones I have owned all sounded like poop. Macbook Pro onboard sound is about as good as an iPod. I'll address a few of your concerns:

 "- DAC part not too impressive, on par with onboard soundchips"

 No, the PCM2702E Japan DAC in the EF2 is an upgrade to the Macbook Pro, and the same DAC as the 3MOVE, but it's just not on the level of the Wolfson or ESS DAC's. A $99 uDAC will add some detail and soundstage size to the EF2 vs the built-in DAC.

 "- Amp part not powerful enough"

 No, it has more power than most portable amps for the HD600/800 except the Protector. There are many other desktop amps that are more powerful, but the power is on par with Qinpu A-3 or Nuforce Icon when using HD600 (and more than A-3 with Grado and Denon).

 "- Tubes not good enough. Too bright, need to be changed"

 No, the stock tubes are nice with HD600 and likely the HD650 too, and just a little bright with HD800 or Grado RS-1 but not bad. $30-40 tubes will improve the sound with everything, but you can live with the stock ones for a while.

 "- and this last guy who has trouble hearing difference between his onboard sound and the EF2"

 The amp has no hiss with IEM while my Macbook does, and it drives HD600 more powerfully than my Macbook Pro or any iPod. To me that's an upgrade.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

nightrhyme, don't get turned off to the EF2. I haven only been at head-fi for 7 months or so and am not the most credible person when it comes to making comments. I still think the EF2 has a place, but am still trying to figure that out. I thank headphone addict for recommending me the HD600 and EF2 (though I went slightly more budget with used HD580s). It has changed the way I listen and I look forward to future upgrades.

 I think I am beginning to hear the difference. Without the EF2, the HD580s still sound great. However they just seem a bit lacking somehow, almost like its lack of volume. Turn the volume up and it doesn't really make it better. EF2 without a doubt has tons of power, and I think this does make the sound fuller with 300ohm headphones. More to come, as I should have some mullard tubes by the weeks end.


----------



## tike71

Does the signal go thru the tube when used with the onboard usb DAC or is it solid state? I'm a newbie to all of this


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tike71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the signal go thru the tube when used with the onboard usb DAC or is it solid state? I'm a newbie to all of this_

 

DAC -> ss -> tubes


----------



## tike71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAC -> ss -> tubes_

 

Thanks! So it is not like the Maverick D1 where it only has a tube pre out.
 I'm looking for a DAC / Tube AMP and the EF2A seems to offer both for a very good price


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tike71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! So it is not like the Maverick D1 where it only has a tube pre out.
 I'm looking for a DAC / Tube AMP and the EF2A seems to offer both for a very good price_

 

From what I am reading, the Maverick looks like its the same (dac->ss->single tube) though I could be not understanding it correctly.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

If I recall in the tube hybrid, the signal goes from DAC or RCA > tube gain stage > SS output stage. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I recall in the tube hybrid, the signal goes from DAC or RCA > tube gain stage > SS output stage. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me._

 

Ya, I'm not sure the order, or if it really matters in a device like this. I have removed the tubes completely before and the device still works, with much less volume of course.

 That leads me to this question, has anyone removed the op-amp before?


----------



## mmd8x28

I do want to remove the opamps. But don't want to brake it..

 I've removed the tubes with the same result..


----------



## Faheem

Is it possible we can change the op-amps in the EF2A to get a different sound signature or a better sound stage ?


----------



## PenDragon

Loving my EF2A, it's gotta have at least 500 hours on it. Just waiting for Mullard tubes to arrive, really looking forward to that


----------



## DayoftheGreek

I emailed them a while back about the opamp and the response I got was that the opamp is not in the signal path. The amp is discrete transistor and tubes.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed them a while back about the opamp and the response I got was that the opamp is not in the signal path. The amp is discrete transistor and tubes._

 

So is the op amp in the EF2 responsible for the solid state amplification?


----------



## Rainbow Randy

I'm getting some irritating computer noise from my iMac when not using the USB input with the volume at 12:00 (my favored level) or greater; the noise coincides with moving browser windows around, minimizing/maximizing windows, 

 I've tried reducing and muting the volume of the mac; I've also tried going to mac audio settings and switching audio output from USB to internal speakers. Ironically, the noise does not occur if I am switched to the USB input. It seems the only solution to avoiding the electronic noise while using the CD input is to remove the usb cable or reduce the EF2 volume to below 12:00.

 Is the DAC to blame? I'm considering a uDAC if it might help.

 *Note: I had this same problem with a Mac Mini and an old HP desktop.


----------



## mmd8x28

Sounds like a grounding fault to me. My EF2 is not doing this. Try a different RCA and USB cable.

 Wouldn't be the DAC as you said your not using USB.


----------



## screwglue

if i plugged this dac via usb to my laptop, would i sitll need a headphone amp? what about a preamp?


----------



## mmd8x28

The EF2 has a DAC yes, but it also is a headphone amp, that's it's main feature.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Ya, think of it as a headphone amp that happens to have a DAC as a bonus feature.


----------



## PenDragon

Got the Mullard tubes today! \o/

 Out of the box impressions in comparison to stock tubes, with the Denon AH-D2000 (obviously subject for change):

 - Soundstage got quite a bit wider
 - Separation of instruments increased
 - Highs became way more controlled and enjoyable, was slightly too sharp before
 - Mids seem a bit more controlled as well
 - Lower frequencies of the bass seems a bit recessed at the moment

 All in all, these are out-of-the-box impressions, nothing more, but even if they were to stay at this state I'd consider them an upgrade in comparison to the stock tubes.

 Thanks for the advice guys, really looking forward to "hear" them grow as they go through burn-in


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is the op amp in the EF2 responsible for the solid state amplification?_

 

According to the email I got from them, no. It is responsible for no part of the amping at all. The solid state amping is done by discrete transistors. 

 From them:
  Quote:


 EF2 is discrete component design. There is only one op-amp on the board which is not important to sound quality.


----------



## BryanP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is the op amp in the EF2 responsible for the solid state amplification?_

 

No, there's just the vacuum tubes for voltage gain and the transistors (just look inside) for low impedance phones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to the email I got from them, no. It is responsible for no part of the amping at all. The solid state amping is done by discrete transistors. 

 From them:_

 

The opamp might be used in the ground channel, as it uses a tube in the gain stage and transistors in the output stage. Changing the ground opamp in some amps still can affect the sound, like in the iBasso D2 Viper or Headstage Lyrix Pro Total (where the second opamp is ground and not a buffer). I have no idea how the opamp in the EF2 might affect the sound or not, because I haven't felt the need to change anything but the tubes. I would expect that if the opamp is a buffer, then changing it will have a bigger affect on the sound than what they said in their email.


----------



## Faheem

Is their any site/ thread with list of the best triode tubes and their particular sound signature ? Like we have a list of op-amps with their sound signature described .

 Currently I have the stock tubes and the CV4010 Mullards . Ofcourse I prefer the Mullards more but I do want to try out other possible tubes as well without spending an arm or leg for it .

 I have an extra pair of unused CV4010 ,anyone interested in exchanging them for some other tubes ??


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I have been using the mullard for a few days now and they are not quite as bright as the stock or RCA 6AK5 tubes.


----------



## miyinan

I am only a newbie. A stupid question: can this work as a dac/amp combo? As a dac/amp combo, how does this compare to some other solid state dac/amp combo in the same price range (like Aune mk2 and Zero)? Any advice?

 (p.s. I am in the market of dac/amp combo and was looking at Zero and Aune Mk2 and now this. Whatever I purchase is gonna be the only thing between my laptop and headphone, at least for now. )

 Thanks


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *miyinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am only a newbie. A stupid question: can this work as a dac/amp combo? As a dac/amp combo, how does this compare to some other solid state dac/amp combo in the same price range (like Aune mk2 and Zero)? Any advice?

 (p.s. I am in the market of dac/amp combo and was looking at Zero and Aune Mk2 and now this. Whatever I purchase is gonna be the only thing between my laptop and headphone, at least for now. )

 Thanks_

 

Yes it is a dac and an amp.

 What headphones are you using or going to be using in the near future? This defines everything.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks for your reply, Crazy*Carl.

 I am using MS1i now and thinking to move up to MS2 in the near future.


----------



## PenDragon

Is it just me or does the D2000 go way better with the EF2 than the ESW10JPN does? Might be the Mullards needing more burn-in, but right now the D2000 sounds leaps and bounds better than the ESW10JPN. And the same definitely can't be said if I do the same test from my Cowon S9, without further amplification.


----------



## Kayk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using the mullard for a few days now and they are not quite as bright as the stock or RCA 6AK5 tubes._

 

I have to agree with this (except I have Raytheon 6AK5W tubes).


----------



## UteroiD

Hey, 

 I'm new to tube amps, just got the EF2. So far i'm pretty happy with it. I have it hooked up to my Firewire 410 cause i think the DAC in my FW is a bit better than the one in EF2, and it drives my HD600. My question is, if I were to upgrade to different tubes, is there any special instructions I should follow or do I just pop those out and put in the new ones? Also how long do these tubes last generally? Any recommendations on replacement ones? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## PenDragon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UteroiD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, 

 I'm new to tube amps, just got the EF2. So far i'm pretty happy with it. I have it hooked up to my Firewire 410 cause i think the DAC in my FW is a bit better than the one in EF2, and it drives my HD600. My question is, if I were to upgrade to different tubes, is there any special instructions I should follow or do I just pop those out and put in the new ones? Also how long do these tubes last generally? Any recommendations on replacement ones? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!_

 

Find 2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes on eBay International Market, with worldwide deals on items in all your top categories

 These have been recommended throughout the thread, and I bought them myself a few weeks back. Highly recommended! I must say that they've started to open up quite a bit just over the last 24 hours (I've had it going pretty much non-stop). They were nice already, but they're improving on a hourly basis! Regarding how to change them it's easy as pie, just pull the stock ones up gently, and then push the new ones down.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

When you say they improve and open up, what do you mean?


----------



## PenDragon

Opening up as opening up the soundstage even more, bigger sound. And improving on so many different levels, better separation of instruments, everything sounds clearer and better.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Has anyone compared the EF2 to the Little Dot MKII+/III?

 Actually if anyone can compare any other amp they have heard before to the EF2, that would be nice.

 In other news, I have a hot audio DAC-Extasy in the mail, and I will do a comparison with the EF2's burr brown in the next few weeks.


----------



## Mampus

Anyone tried EF-2 with a 600 ohm cans? Like DT880/600?


----------



## UteroiD

I'm using my EF-2 with HD600's and i'm very happy with it. I still have the stock tubes, and only have been listening for about 3 weeks... but it drives them very well... i think EF2s tube sound compliments well 600s brightness.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UteroiD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using my EF-2 with HD600's and i'm very happy with it. I still have the stock tubes, and only have been listening for about 3 weeks... but it drives them very well... i think EF2s tube sound compliments well 600s brightness._

 

What do you notice different about the EF2 vs an ipod with your HD600s?


----------



## mmd8x28

I'm now using my EF2 with my own home made headphones, it works rather well with my homemade drivers!!

 34ohms..


----------



## techenvy

a very late great job H.A.-- i am very surprised about this one. do u still have this little guy in your line up? even more interesting is how its dac is comparable to the predator, thou i dont know how impressive that is, im curious do you know what dac is in the predator, maybe its a pcm 2702? i would really like to know what chip it uses, i may have to take it apart lol.

 another good read, cheers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techenvy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a very late great job H.A.-- i am very surprised about this one. do u still have this little guy in your line up? even more interesting is how its dac is comparable to the predator, thou i dont know how impressive that is, im curious do you know what dac is in the predator, maybe its a pcm 2702? i would really like to know what chip it uses, i may have to take it apart lol.

 another good read, cheers_

 

In the RSA amps the identification of the chips is removed and they are painted with red nail polish, so forget about digging into the Predator.

 I would say the PCM2702E DACs in some of my amps like EF2, 3MOVE and XM5 have similar detail and soundstage to each other and to the Predator; so it doesn't matter what chip the Predator uses, being that it is similar. The DAC is an upgrade over my Macbook Pro soundcard, and very slightly below my iMod with a portable line out dock.

 I find the DACs that use a Wolfson 8740 chip like the D4, D10 and Pico have a higher level of detail and soundstage than the PCM2702E Japan. These are more comparable to the iMod with an expensive Vcap dock, which is just a below my Apogee mini-DAC but quite good.

 The $99 uDAC RCA out into the EF2 amp is a definite upgrade over the built-in DAC of the EF2 with better detail and soundstage, but is a little warmer and more forward sounding than the Wolfson DACs which are a little more neutral and spacious.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

After spending 7 months with the EF2, I finally gave up on it.

 This is what I heard and my opinion, and I hope this can be respected. I found that the EF2 sound was indistinguishable from my ipod and my computer with Sennheiser HD580 and Ultrasone HFI580. Additionally, my ipod and computer onboard sound provide more than adequate listening volumes. Even changing several different tube types (including mullard CV4010) I noticed no difference. I even added a different DAC for it (DAC Extasy with Wolfsen 8501) with no real change. Maybe this is not the case with other types of headphones, I don't know. But, after this long of listening and testing, It was clear to me that I no longer needed this unit.


----------



## Mellorelishman

Alright. So I hardly post anything on any forum (this one including). It seems I have a problem with my new ef2a though. I received my unit on Monday last week and I initially liked the sound. I couldn't wait to burn it in. After burning it in for who knows how long I really started liking the sound coming out of my ef2. Very warm rich sound which was very pleasing to my ears(I'm very noobish). Here's the problem. I left out of town for two days, now I'm back and I can't stand the sound coming out of the ef2. It's making a lot more staticy background pops and it sounds almost as if its is only making my music only louder now.....no more clean warm sound = ( . I initially thought maybe It's because It needs to warm up. I listened to music for about hour and a half, still no improvement. 

 I'm using the build-in usb dac of the ef2 through foobar listening to various mp3's, wavs, and flacs. My headphone is an unmodded denon ah-2000. I want to get down to the bottom of this. Here's a recap of my problems with the ef2:

 - Not as warm and detailed in sound.
 - More noise in the background with more noticeable static hiccups.

 I have thought maybe...

 - It's the tubes since I was touching them a lot and I don't know much about tubes ( I'm using the stock tubes, getting some new ones soon though). 

 -a bad power supply?
 - maybe I just need to burn it in more?

 I have the volume turned all the way up on my computer, and the problem definitely is not a loudness problem. Any help will be very greatly appreciated. Hopefully my ears are just not working correctly and I wake up tomorrow with the same musical bliss that I had before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mellorelishman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright. So I hardly post anything on any forum (this one including). It seems I have a problem with my new ef2a though. I received my unit on Monday last week and I initially liked the sound. I couldn't wait to burn it in. After burning it in for who knows how long I really started liking the sound coming out of my ef2. Very warm rich sound which was very pleasing to my ears(I'm very noobish). Here's the problem. I left out of town for two days, now I'm back and I can't stand the sound coming out of the ef2. It's making a lot more staticy background pops and it sounds almost as if its is only making my music only louder now.....no more clean warm sound = ( . I initially thought maybe It's because It needs to warm up. I listened to music for about hour and a half, still no improvement. 

 I'm using the build-in usb dac of the ef2 through foobar listening to various mp3's, wavs, and flacs. My headphone is an unmodded denon ah-2000. I want to get down to the bottom of this. Here's a recap of my problems with the ef2:

 - Not as warm and detailed in sound.
 - More noise in the background with more noticeable static hiccups.

 I have thought maybe...

 - It's the tubes since I was touching them a lot and I don't know much about tubes ( I'm using the stock tubes, getting some new ones soon though). 

 -a bad power supply?
 - maybe I just need to burn it in more?

 I have the volume turned all the way up on my computer, and the problem definitely is not a loudness problem. Any help will be very greatly appreciated. Hopefully my ears are just not working correctly and I wake up tomorrow with the same musical bliss that I had before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....._

 

I would maybe try unplugging everything, let the amp cool down, shut off the PC and turn it back on, and plug everything in, and warm up the amp again, and see what happens. If the sound is still clearly a problem, then maybe something in the amp broke between now and the last time you listened.


----------



## mrarroyo

Mellorelishman while you are doing what Larry (HeadphoenAddict) suggested remove the tubes and re-seat them and make sure all the cables are fully inserted. Good luck.


----------



## Mellorelishman

Thanks for the responses! You people are truly dedicated to your hobbies here.... Any who, I had already tried what mrarroyo and HPA suggested before my post to no avail.... However, I let the amp burn in over night and now it sounds fine. The pops are pretty much non existent and the sound is much better. It's really amazing how this amp responds to burning in. I don't understand how some people do not believe in burn in.

 I dunno what inspired my inpatients as I usually try a lot of things before posting. If i would have been patient this post would not have happened. My ef2 sounds wonderful again though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I really appreciate the suggestions though. As you can see I have been a part of this forum for a while, however, I really tend to read a lot of posts on forums without posting much myself. I do visit this forum often though.


----------



## mmd8x28

Mine is making a nasty 60Hz hum that comes and goes.. Im shipping the power supply back tomorrow as it's original is dead and I believe my home made PSU is starting to fail.


----------



## crowley

my ef2a just arrived, its working well with my d5000. Everything seems clearer and punchier. Rock sounds a lot better


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote: 





rainbow randy said:


> I'm getting some irritating computer noise from my iMac when not using the USB input with the volume at 12:00 (my favored level) or greater; the noise coincides with moving browser windows around, minimizing/maximizing windows,
> 
> I've tried reducing and muting the volume of the mac; I've also tried going to mac audio settings and switching audio output from USB to internal speakers. Ironically, the noise does not occur if I am switched to the USB input. It seems the only solution to avoiding the electronic noise while using the CD input is to remove the usb cable or reduce the EF2 volume to below 12:00.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I had this issue a few years back with a computer and the problem was solved by going into the BIOS and upping the RAM voltage to the next highest step. It was something like bumping it from 2.6 to 2.8 volts.... never had the problem again. I haven't messed with an Apple computer lately though so I can't remember if you can get in and adjust those types of things. If you have more than one stick of RAM you could try taking one at a time out and seeing if problem clears up. If so, then replace that stick. Even just re-seating the ram and the cards might help.


----------



## pws442

Just got mine the other day. Nasty hum coming out of it, no matter where I plug it in, plug orientation. Varies in intensity with the volume knob when powered on. Does not need to be near other equipment, and doesn't even need the USB cable plugged in. Removed and re-inserted the tubes. Plugged it into a Monster power conditioner. Used different headphones. All to no avail. Sent message on eBay about possible return. No answer from them yet.
   
  Are they good at replacing it? Or is there anything else I should do?


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

How many hours on it?  Maybe you need to just leave it on at zero volume for a little while, like 4 hour stints for a couple days.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





pws442 said:


> Just got mine the other day. Nasty hum coming out of it, no matter where I plug it in, plug orientation. Varies in intensity with the volume knob when powered on. Does not need to be near other equipment, and doesn't even need the USB cable plugged in. Removed and re-inserted the tubes. Plugged it into a Monster power conditioner. Used different headphones. All to no avail. Sent message on eBay about possible return. No answer from them yet.
> 
> Are they good at replacing it? Or is there anything else I should do?


 

 It could be bad tubes.  I would try to replace them and see what happens.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Take out the tubes and see if you still get the distortion.  The EF2 works without tubes, just with much less available volume.  This may isolate the problem.


----------



## LopesME

Hello everybody,
   
  I purchase the Hifiman EF2a some days ago and I am thinking stock tubes a little bit bright, with predominant treble. I am currently using Audio Technica's ATH-AD700 and the amp has burn around 50 hours.
   
*How long should I wait for improvements in sound using stock tubes ?*
   
  After read all this thread, I was thinking to buy a pair of NOS tube. I found two seller at eBay, one from Taiwan (recommended some topics ago) selling a lot of NOS Mullard CV4010. Another one is offering a pair of NOS Tung-Sol 6ak5, which "in terms" has more quality of manufature.
   
*I really would like help to choose a tube brand. Both tubes are equivalent in terms of soundstage and naturalness ? What can offer a more musical and wam sound ????*
   
  Finally, I would like to know if anybody has tried to change stock socketed op-amp. I am not a expert for reading components data sheet but I am thinking to try OPA2134 since they have a good reputation on CMOY amplifier. Head-Direct does not inform (or decline) this change in their website. *Has anybody tried some thing like this before ?*
   
  Thanks a lot. and please sorry from poor English.
   
  Marcelo


----------



## runswithaliens

I think it may be your AD700's that are the "little bit bright with predominant treble". Honestly you might find that money spent replacing your headphones gives you much better sound improvement compared to replacing tubes at this point. I have the AD700's but never use them because they are indeed too bright and not very musical in my opinion.


----------



## crowley

I am going to be given a Nuforce Icon (portable) and i was wondering if the DAC is better than the DAC of the EF2? Is it worth using the icon as a preamp/dac or am i better off using the icon for speakers and getting a dedicated dac?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





crowley said:


> I am going to be given a Nuforce Icon (portable) and i was wondering if the DAC is better than the DAC of the EF2? Is it worth using the icon as a preamp/dac or am i better off using the icon for speakers and getting a dedicated dac?


 

 The Icon portable DAC doesn't seem to be any more resolving than the EF2, and the EF2 does move up a notch in performance with a dedicated DAC upgrade. If you had a lot of money you wouldn't be using the EF2 in the first place, but you still don't break the bank by adding something like the uDAC or Super Pro DAC707 as a DAC upgrade.  The EF2 or the uDAC are a good value for the money, and I think a better value than the Icon portable/mobile.
   
  I noticed you mentioned speakers, but neither of these drives speakers unless you are using amped speakers.


----------



## crowley

Thanks, at least now i know im just gonna sell the icon. been thinking on whether i should save for a dac or buy tubes first to upgrade the ef2


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote: 





crowley said:


> Thanks, at least now i know im just gonna sell the icon. been thinking on whether i should save for a dac or buy tubes first to upgrade the ef2


 

 I changed tubes on the EF2 twice, and all of them sounded the same.


----------



## mmd8x28

I'm still waiting for Head direct to confirm they received my bad PSU.  USPS says it was delivered, but it's been a couple days of "let me check"...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





crazy*carl said:


> I changed tubes on the EF2 twice, and all of them sounded the same.


 

 Wait, what?
   
  There is no way my Raytheon 6AK5 or Mullard CV4010 can be confused with the stock tubes.  They all sound different to me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> There is no way my Raytheon 6AK5 or Mullard CV4010 can be confused with the stock tubes.  They all sound different to me.


 

 Totally agree.


----------



## mmd8x28

So I'm going to be without my EF2 probably for a while now.
   
  they are "please wait for confirmation of receiving bad PSU" still.  USPS says it arrived last week and I'm still waiting on this.   Not very happy, so far TWICE my dealing with Head Direct has been bad.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Wait, what?
> 
> There is no way my Raytheon 6AK5 or Mullard CV4010 can be confused with the stock tubes.  They all sound different to me.


 

 I did not hear anything substantial by changing tubes.  In fact, the EF2 in general sounded no different than my ipod with HD580.  This is why I got rid of it after 7 months of using it.  I did countless AB tests on it, and I was never able to distinguish the EF2 as better or even different.


----------



## mmd8x28

I think it's totally fair.  Some people just don't hear the difference. I know some people can't hear the difference on my EF2 to their iPods.  It's all subjective.


----------



## Gubretti

So I got a pair of Mullard CV4010, and I've changed them from JAN GE 5654w's. The question I have is, the tubes have little orange glow in comparison, but its all at the bottom so you can't even see it unless your looking down, and the tubes aren't hot at all. The amp has been on for over 5 hours and I'm able to touch them. They do in fact work but is that correct?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote: 





gubretti said:


> So I got a pair of Mullard CV4010, and I've changed them from JAN GE 5654w's. The question I have is, the tubes have little orange glow in comparison, but its all at the bottom so you can't even see it unless your looking down, and the tubes aren't hot at all. The amp has been on for over 5 hours and I'm able to touch them. They do in fact work but is that correct?


 
   
  The CV4010s have alot of the metallic color stuff (dunno what it is) at the top which makes them glow less.  Also, they never get that hot.  So what you are seeing is perfectly normal


----------



## burgunder

Quote: 





mmd8x28 said:


> I think it's totally fair.  Some people just don't hear the difference. I know some people can't hear the difference on my EF2 to their iPods.  It's all subjective.


 

 Sometimes I think that people are listening for the wrong things, it's rather easy to spot the differences between using the µDAC alone and using the EF2 and µDAC, but it's not a night and day difference it's not like the music is all of the sudden starts sounding a lot better but it the soundstage is larger and the attack is better plus the overall PRAT. I was not able to tell this at first and it's not easy to spot with all types of music but the difference is there.


----------



## mmd8x28

Got my replacement power supply finally.  Audio sounds so much better without the humming sound!!


----------



## crowley

Just got my mullards today. is there a specific way of storing these? im gonna let the amp burn a bit with the stock before replacing them


----------



## jayb77

No you should break in your mullards with your amp! Theres no reason to go through burn in twice and I have extensive knowledge with the 5654-6ak5-4010-and the tung-sols are the warmest. If you want less mids and highs go with the tun-sols the rca tubes are very tuby(generic) tube sound while the mullards are very open with crunch in the lower mids and a clean top end and tight low end a all around great tube the siemens are my second favorite tube with VERY clean upper and lower mids and highs with neutral low end.The ge 5654 have a crunchy(presence) mid with rolled off highs these too should be considered for a to bright system but may be too much in the lower mids 250-800 hz range.


----------



## jayb77

also that metal silver stuff is when they seal the tubes to make them air tight they put getters in the tube and the getters are made of barium I believe and the fire the getters at flash tempertures which will asorb or burn off any left over gas (oxygen) and the silver is pure barium which means its good.Bad tubes turn white which is barium oxide so they discard those tubes. and thats what the silver stuff in tubes is and why its always beside or above the getters in tubes.


----------



## jayb77

Oh by the way I have ALOT of these tubes and they are for sale so I would be more than happy to help you find the right brand/sound you need and/or lead you in the right direction if you want to buy somewhere else I am not a company just have more tubes than any one man needs. I have rolled evryone and know what they all sound like so i can keep you from buying expensive tubes you dont need.Just want to help.


----------



## jayb77

forgot to say siemens tubes have a very smooth midrange voices smooth out so if thats your issue these will help


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

You can edit your posts.  The button is at the bottom left of each of your posts.


----------



## crowley

great! would you know how long these tubes last? i wont have time next month to buy stuff so i gotta get my tubes now, i have 2 pairs of mullards other than the stock pair


----------



## jayb77

mullard are very reliable but dont be rough wiyh them and NEVER touch them with bare skin get some latex gloves or soft cotton gloves that will make them last longer oil from skin gets in the glass and expands as the tube heats and over time can cause premature failure letting gas in just like water freezing in a rock will split it.But if left on 24/7 2 to 3 years is very safe estimate but cheaper tubes about 2 years with constant use also factor in tube rolling as tubes dont really like to be moved alot you know all the parts in side some say it doesnt matter but in the end EVERYTHING matters.millitay grade are tough but remember they were never made for audio so make sure you get a matched set of any military grade as the tolerances can be off WAY off even on the same production.Things ive learned over the years of testing oh thanks for telling me i can add to post didnt know. Thanks guys and feel free to ask any questions and ill get back to ya!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jayb77 said:


> mullard are very reliable but dont be rough wiyh them and NEVER touch them with bare skin get some latex gloves or soft cotton gloves that will make them last longer oil from skin gets in the glass and expands as the tube heats and over time can cause premature failure letting gas in just like water freezing in a rock will split it.


 

 Just FWIW, I have been told from a very reliable source that the whole "skin oil damages tubes" thing is completely untrue.


----------



## crowley

unfortunately i think i touched mine, i can just wipe the oil off right or do need a solution to wipe them off?


----------



## jayb77

no just wipe them off and they should be fine they wont burn out immediately but its just good practice. And I have several tubes like my fist 2a3 and my ts 6550,s that have severe burns from skin oil so I speak from trial and error not what i have been told however since micro tubes dont reach the temps of output tubes the effects are MUCH less dramatic but even on a smaller scale it does do damage juat at a smaller scale. Just because i dont see a plant grow doesnt mean it it doesnt.ALWAYS better safe than sorry.Oh most any pre tube doesnt get as  hot as a rectifier (5u4g) tube or an output (el34) but if it damages those I am sure even without "observed" effects it damages them as well.In this hobby every one has opinions like cables dont make a diffrence or break in is needed but it is and they do its only what you believe and what you have learned, By no means do i expect anyone to believe or do what i have put in here its just advice whether taken or not. I definately dont claim to know everything but I have learned a little in the past 22 years that i have been infatuated with tubes and audio so take anything you read with a grain of salt no matter the source trial and error is the best way to learn and only trust your ears. Snake oil salesmen are around every corner.And dont even consider power cord or interconnect upgrades untill every thing else is right and you are happy then fine tune your setup with cables.It only makes a diffrence when you are going to keep what you have for a while because what sounds good with this may be to bright with that or to warm. copper is warmer than silver in most cases but this is not always the case in cables but thats a whole diffrent thread.any way point being TRUST YOUR EARS and evrey thing else will fall into place.


----------



## jayb77

No just wipe them down and you should be fine and the cv4010,s are GREAT TUBES! I love mine! Mullards especially NOS are expensive but are worth it just because they dont really lack in any one department. they just give a nice full tone not to brite not to warm kinda like goldielocks ya know.they are ussally a good benchmark for and i hate to use this word for generalzation but flat as far as tubes go but diffrent stuff sounds diffrent with diffrent tubes warm equipment might need some siemens to brighten up. you know what Im saying?so Im glad you like your mullards.Go to high fidelity tubes.com and type in 6ak5 in the search box on the left and check out the siemens, mullards and telefunken tubes they are afordable and the guy that owns it is GREAT to work with. He will work with you on shipping if you ask and its not a corporation just some guys in the netherlands.


----------



## crowley

They are great tubes, i real step up from the stock. These are my first tubes aside from the stock and i dont think i have to get any other tubes. I was skeptical at first about how much of a change they could do to the sound, but i was wrong. Just amazing tubes


----------



## jayb77

TOTALLY AGREE!!! But if you only ate rice and someone gave you mac & cheese that then be your favorite food EVER!!! See what im saying? The best part of tube stuff is the ability to roll and change or think of it this way each tube is a diffrent EQ setting so one may sound good with country while one sounds better with jazz. If i could roll OP-amps in digital solid state i would believe me but You did buy a GREAT tube so if your happy thats all that matters. if I could I would send you some old well NOS russian tubes I got on trade the other day when I guy brought in his preamp to trade on a new piece he also brought in his tubes I dont know why but I have I plethera of 5654,6ak5s 6ak7,s(dont use 6ak7 as they will work but sound HORRIBLE!!! very harsh and brite) and dont need them all just dont know what im going to do. I guess ill put them on ebay  after I test them all but I would just give them to some of you guys just so youll understand the whole art of tube rolling.Maybe someone wants to trade or has any idea what to do or how to get rid of them to let me know. OH have they even broke in yet??? about 100 hours is required and that means with signal going thru them not just powered on as the signal aligns the electrons during break in allowing the sound to become better so about 4 to 5 days of play. I will take a tuner or an i-pod or a cd player on repeat and let them break in the tubes like when im away or sleeping just an idea to try.Also cables make sure signal always travels the same way a rule of thumb is to use the writing on the said cable as a direction finder if it doesnt have arrows telling you so that once again the electrical signal makes one path way and in one direction Thats not my theroy thats KRELL CONRAD-JOHNSON MACINTOSH,s and most high end audio manufacturers will tell you thats why cables have directional arrows on them.I know like I said before "in the end EVERYTHING matters".


----------



## crowley

I only have around 20 hours on them, i've been playing music and watching movies with them. But i really like what i'm hearing. They're balanced while sounding warm. They work well with the warmness of the amp. When watching movies, certain audio details come out.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote: 





crowley said:


> I only have around 20 hours on them, i've been playing music and watching movies with them. But i really like what i'm hearing. They're balanced while sounding warm. They work well with the warmness of the amp. When watching movies, certain audio details come out.


 

 You can honestly tell me your hear these things?  I basically heard no difference between mullard, rca, and stock tubes.


----------



## jayb77

Quote: 





crazy*carl said:


> You can honestly tell me your hear these things?  I basically heard no difference between mullard, rca, and stock tubes.


 

 LOL!!! Its OK man some people just dont hear any diffrence in fact I wish I didnt! Do you have any idea how much happier I would be If I didnt think "maybe this tube will sound or maybe this cable will sound....."every time I sat down to my rig.Sometimes I have to just enjoy not critique my rig and alot of us (audiophiles) get so caught up in looking for that"sound" that we"I" forget its all about the music so I really am envious of you!


----------



## jayb77

Oh yeah and just wait untill we get into how some namebrand power cord sounds better than the stock power cord


----------



## jayb77

Quote: 





crazy*carl said:


> You can honestly tell me your hear these things?  I basically heard no difference between mullard, rca, and stock tubes.


 

 Yes and basically think of tube rolling like op-amps they all have a signature sound but some people just dont hear it and thats fine if the other post I put up ever comes up youll see how I am really jealous I wish I didnt hear the diffrence!


----------



## crowley

when compared to the stock tubes, yes. Certain details, came out more, i would think the treble was just more apparent with the mullards than stock when i watched movies


----------



## Faheem

Will these be able to drive a AKG 701/702 fairly well ?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





faheem said:


> Will these be able to drive a AKG 701/702 fairly well ?


 

 I think it should, but I don't have one to test that out.  It can drive an HD600 and HD800 fine, and it should have enough power for the K701/2.  I think with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that I am using that it's tone would be a good match for them as well.  It's a little underpowered for something like the HE-5, but still enjoyable at the moderate volumes it can achieve; and these are a lot harder to drive than a K702 (EF1 and EF5 are a much better choice for the HE-5).


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Say what you want about driving headphones well, but for 7 months I used the EF2 and I was never able to tell a difference between it and an ipod with my HD580.  I used mullard tubes also.


----------



## Faheem

Thanks Headphone addict for the info .  @ Crazy Carl  , Did you feel the same with any other headphones as well ?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote: 





faheem said:


> Thanks Headphone addict for the info .  @ Crazy Carl  , Did you feel the same with any other headphones as well ?


 

 Ultrasone HFI-580.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





crazy*carl said:


> Say what you want about driving headphones well, but for 7 months I used the EF2 and I was never able to tell a difference between it and an ipod with my HD580.  I used mullard tubes also.


 

 We know, you've told us that many times.  And others have posted that they do hear a difference and I don't see many who take your position.  Sorry.


----------



## grokit

I believe that Crazy Carl can't tell the difference.
  But I also agree that most people can tell the difference


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I can voice my opinion to new posts, as you guys do also.


----------



## mmd8x28

I know how to settle this.
   
  Put stock tube in LEFT socket, Mullard in RIGHT socket.  Do you hear a tonal imbalance between the left and right speaker?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I sold the thing months ago. Sorry.


----------



## mmd8x28

Others can still try it.  
   
  If there IS a placebo effect, this will be the way to tell...  Each tube is a single channel, and will not influence the other...


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Or a blind test...oh has anyone even done that with the EF2?


----------



## mmd8x28

I haven't personally done it..  Kinda lazy to care to be honest..  I have other important things than to loose sleep over what sounds better.


----------



## jayb77

in truth the mullards are going to sound better regardless over a stock chinese tube unless your rig has too much detail depth and imaging and you need to tone it down but I could also win the lottery but I seriously doubt either of those will EVER happen LOL!!! But that is a good idea and I have tried two tubes that way just not stock tubes I believe it was a NOS RCA and a telefunkin or siemens cant remember but I know the NOS RCA was the warmer of the two but imaging is hard to decipher that way but you can hear different sonic characteristics such as mids highs bass you know the good stuff so that is a good way especially using balance to bounce back and forth and also mono your source first so you dont get missled by stereo effect.


----------



## grokit

From what I have read the stock Chinese tubes can sound somewhat bright, but can match up well with darker cans like the HD650.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From what I have read the stock Chinese tubes can sound somewhat bright, but can match up well with darker cans like the HD650.


 

 So can a little bit of eq.


----------



## jayb77

Quote: 





crazy*carl said:


> So can a little bit of eq.


 

 If you need an EQ then you have an issue somewhere in the system first you need to find out what the problem is whether it is a lack of bass to much bass harsh mids harsh highs and after that is done then figure out which component is the culprit like try your cd,I pod thru the pre amp seperately and then try your whatever you have then add your buffer in between you know/ then replace what ever is causing the issue or in some cases people dont have the impedence matched whether its the headphones/ speakers which is the first to check then check your components to make sure that source has a lower output impedence than the input impedence of your pre or amp.The rule of thumb is input impedence should be twice the output impedence. This can reak havoc on sound qaulity and usally rears it ugly had as bass issues sometimes sounding almost out of phase in some severe cases.Impedence is one of the most over looked issues in audio mainly because people dont know or how to correct or even to correct!


----------



## jayb77

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From what I have read the stock Chinese tubes can sound somewhat bright, but can match up well with darker cans like the HD650.


 

 Yea but they lack in soooo many other areas but you could use them in a overly warm/dark setup but I would recommend a good set of siemens before I would recommend stock chinese tubes but its your ears so if thats what you like then thats what you like right?


----------



## ghahn

I've been lurking a while, and on the strength of your reviews and comments bought a EF2A and have a uDAC on the way.  I've been amazed at the sound with a pair of HD650s (with stock tubes), though to be fair this is my first foray into headphone audio, so I can imagine my ears aren't as tuned as others on this forum. 
   
  My question is, I'm going to be taking this amp overseas next month, and the included power adapter will only take 110V AC.  I emailed Head-Direct and they charge $110 for the 220V power supply, which I can't justify spending, since the entire package is priced at $189.  Does anyone have any suggestions here?  Is there any problem with using a voltage transformer to take 220V to 110V, then use the adapter I have?  
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jayb77

I dont think so I have used european equipment before but i steped it down from 220 to 120 you want to do the opposite so i really dont know for sure but in any case if money is the issue and that is your only option then go with it worst case senerio you will just have to get the adapter plus if its not a permanet move and only a little while then just take the cheapest way out then when you get back sell the purchased items to recoup some of your losses. Hope this helps some.
  
  Quote: 





ghahn said:


> I've been lurking a while, and on the strength of your reviews and comments bought a EF2A and have a uDAC on the way.  I've been amazed at the sound with a pair of HD650s (with stock tubes), though to be fair this is my first foray into headphone audio, so I can imagine my ears aren't as tuned as others on this forum.
> 
> My question is, I'm going to be taking this amp overseas next month, and the included power adapter will only take 110V AC.  I emailed Head-Direct and they charge $110 for the 220V power supply, which I can't justify spending, since the entire package is priced at $189.  Does anyone have any suggestions here?  Is there any problem with using a voltage transformer to take 220V to 110V, then use the adapter I have?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## grokit

As far as electronic EQ goes, every time I try using it it just degrades the sound and adds distortion. I can always tell the difference when I defeat it, which I always end up doing when I try it. I do use sound check, the volume equalizer because I use random play and can't stand the changes in output level between recordings. Sound check doesn't seem to degrade the sound enough for my ears to notice. If there is a problem with certain frequencies, I always try to find a way to adjust something physically in the chain, like changing components around, or modding the cans, or rolling the tubes, or perhaps a cable swap as examples. I used to use a physical parametric EQ in a past speaker system, that was better than the graphic EQ I tried but I didn't really mind either style of physical EQ like I do the software based EQ's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





ghahn said:


> I've been lurking a while, and on the strength of your reviews and comments bought a EF2A and have a uDAC on the way.  I've been amazed at the sound with a pair of HD650s (with stock tubes), though to be fair this is my first foray into headphone audio, so I can imagine my ears aren't as tuned as others on this forum.
> 
> My question is, I'm going to be taking this amp overseas next month, and the included power adapter will only take 110V AC.  I emailed Head-Direct and they charge $110 for the 220V power supply, which I can't justify spending, since the entire package is priced at $189.  Does anyone have any suggestions here?  Is there any problem with using a voltage transformer to take 220V to 110V, then use the adapter I have?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 The voltage transformer should be fine if that is indeed more economical.  You could also sell the whole 110v EF2 and buy a new 220v EF2, with the difference in cost from selling one to buying the new one being about the cost of the transformer.


----------



## jayb77

I agree I NEVER even accept an EQ as an option in ant of my setups. Oh BTW sound check if I am not mistaken is a compressor and completely kills any attempt at dynamics. Its just like listening to the radio so its your choice but I dont recommend sound check for any serious listening but for just music playing while your doing something like cleaning its fine. You may want to check your manual and/or check it out online to see if that is what it does/is because I could be wrong but I am pretty sure its a compressor like "dynamic control" on Marantz equipment.Or 'Night mode' on Sony equipment.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> As far as electronic EQ goes, every time I try using it it just degrades the sound and adds distortion. I can always tell the difference when I defeat it, which I always end up doing when I try it. I do use sound check, the volume equalizer because I use random play and can't stand the changes in output level between recordings. Sound check doesn't seem to degrade the sound enough for my ears to notice. If there is a problem with certain frequencies, I always try to find a way to adjust something physically in the chain, like changing components around, or modding the cans, or rolling the tubes, or perhaps a cable swap as examples. I used to use a physical parametric EQ in a past speaker system, that was better than the graphic EQ I tried but I didn't really mind either style of physical EQ like I do the software based EQ's.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jayb77 said:


> I agree I NEVER even accept an EQ as an option in ant of my setups. Oh BTW sound check if I am not mistaken is a compressor and completely kills any attempt at dynamics. Its just like listening to the radio so its your choice but I dont recommend sound check for any serious listening but for just music playing while your doing something like cleaning its fine. You may want to check your manual and/or check it out online to see if that is what it does/is because I could be wrong but I am pretty sure its a compressor like "dynamic control" on Marantz equipment.Or 'Night mode' on Sony equipment.


 

 I agree that the sound enhancer and EQ processing in iTunes is bad, but crossfade and sound check are not as bad as many people believe. Sound check in particular gets a bad rap, mostly from the anti-iTunes crowd, but it's actually just a form of volume leveling, or audio normalization:
   
  "Specifically, normalization applies a constant amount of gain to the selected region of the recording to bring the highest peak to a target level, usually -0.3 dB, to allow for addition of two channels without exceeding 0.0 dBFS, or 100% (0 dB). *This differs from dynamics compression*, which applies varying levels of gain over a recording to fit the level within a minimum and maximum range. Normalization applies the same amount of gain across the selected region of the recording so that *the relative dynamics (and signal to noise ratio) are unchanged*."
   
  Anyways many people are mistaken about this, but I am glad I looked up the above information because it verifies what I hear, and that is huge degradation with the enhancer and EQ, but none with sound check, or cross-fade.


----------



## jayb77

OK Ill say this and get out I use tubes more for getting rid of digital harshness in my rig and not for the "tube" sound. I like my solid state but most sources in digital domain have extremely accurate top end esppecially when you start getting to 192 sample rates or more so when you have a very resolving system like i do I dont want to mask the detail thats why I like mullards they dont have a "tube" sound like Tung-Sol or RCA with an all fat and very warm sound.That is not what I am after. Mullards allow the signal thru with little adjustment. Its almost like solid state using mullards and that why some people dont like them because the resolve to much but I only want to get rid of digital harshness and change my interconnect signal from class a/b to pure class A.And mullards do that for me. Now siemens do this as well but they are very airy "bright" compared to mullards or very very airy compared to RCA,s or Tung-Sols.I use interconnects power cords speaker cables and tubes for equalizing  "EQ"ing my system like Grokit said so perfectly and if that doesnt make sense to you then you probably dont have the same calibur system the he and I have. Alot of people have very nice and expensive rigs but they have no idea how to set it up so someone with a cheap midfi could sound 10 times better than a guy with a million dollar high end rig who doesnt understand interconnects or impedence or isolation.Just type speaker cable or Empirical audio is a great place to start into your google and read everything you can then setup your rig then do the same for interconnects. Now im not saying youll learn everything that way but at least you wont be blindly running cable and using tubes and then wonder why yours doesnt sound as good as these other guys says theirs does.You dont buy a ferrari and never read the manual so just look for ideas and others opioions. I have learned alot of my knowledge from years of selling high end stereo "2 channel" and being an audiophile so if you dont hear the difference thats fine but dont treat the ones that do like theyre crazy. Thats not fair!


----------



## jayb77

That is cool didnt know that! I will have to remember that.Thanks I am glad you looked into it.


----------



## jayb77

Hey Grokit what tubes are you using? And what do you think about them? Alot of new tubes are poping up everywhere as replacements for the EF2 I guess due to popularity of the Yaqin CD2 buffer on Ebay. Supply and demand gotta love it!


----------



## grokit

Sorry, I've rolled the tube in my Indeed hybrid and in my EF5, but I don't actually have an EF2. I've always admired the design and utility of it though.


----------



## TwistedCandy00

would audio technia es-7 work with this?


----------



## mmd8x28

Does the EF2 do a soft start on the tubes?  Or is it just an instant on.


----------



## TwistedCandy00

Just received a HiFiMan ef2 tube amp,
  but have yet to buy an adapter for my headphones.
   
  I am completely new to this,
  is there any way to test the sound? I am using a Mac


----------



## jayb77

do you have a rca adapter to plug it into your stereo?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





twistedcandy00 said:


> Just received a HiFiMan ef2 tube amp,
> but have yet to buy an adapter for my headphones.
> 
> I am completely new to this,
> is there any way to test the sound? I am using a Mac


 

 Ignore jayb77, no offense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Get a usb cable, plug it in to your Mac directly (no hub if possible), plug the other end into the EF2, select the EF2 for "output" in Sound Preferences; keeping the volume low at first on the EF2, plug in your headphones, put them on, bring up your favorite song in iTunes and play it. If your music is lossless or high bitrate it should sound pretty good, better than music on YouTube for example. It may take a minute or so for the tube to warm up on the EF2, not sure.


----------



## jayb77

grokits right ignore me COMPLETELY I missunderstood! sorry!


----------



## burgunder

Has anyone found a better PSU for the EF2? I'm beginning to think that the PSU is holding back the performance of this amp.


----------



## Zainul

This is a very good review. I have used the EF2 extensively and agree it is a wonderful "big little amp/dac". Especially considering the price, it is a great starting point for any audiophile.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> Has anyone found a better PSU for the EF2? I'm beginning to think that the PSU is holding back the performance of this amp.


 

 I've got a linear PSU for laptops that I can try with it, but it might be a while before I get around to doing that.  Sorry.  It just seems overkill to use a $90 PSU with a $169 amp.


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I've got a linear PSU for laptops that I can try with it, but it might be a while before I get around to doing that.  Sorry.  It just seems overkill to use a $90 PSU with a $169 amp.


 

 Make sure the PSU is the correct voltage and is AC..  It's ok to go higher in amperage, that of course is where the better power would come from.
   
  But mind you, when I used a weaker PSU in amperage, the sound didn't really change, but a humming sound was present.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I've got a linear PSU for laptops that I can try with it, but it might be a while before I get around to doing that.  Sorry.  It just seems overkill to use a $90 PSU with a $169 amp.


 

 Myself and others have reported a noticeable improvement with Firestone's $117 Suplier PSU, and their audio components are in the $169 price range. My Fubar I/O is $167 as a matter of fact. You just can't put a price on good power! Well actually you can, it's $117 in this case


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mmd8x28 said:


> Make sure the PSU is the correct voltage and is AC..  It's ok to go higher in amperage, that of course is where the better power would come from.
> 
> But mind you, when I used a weaker PSU in amperage, the sound didn't really change, but a humming sound was present.


 

 I'm not inexperienced in this area.  It's adjustable from 12-24v with interchangeable tips for polarity and plug size, and can supply 4500ma or 80 watts.  I've used it with an RWAudio amp that had a noisy PSU and the amp became totally silent, just like when running the amp off an external battery pack.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Myself and others have reported a noticeable improvement with Firestone's $117 Suplier PSU, and their audio components are in the $169 price range. My Fubar I/O is $167 as a matter of fact. You just can't put a price on good power! Well actually you can, it's $117 in this case


 

 Well, to be honest, I'm using a 24v Sigma 11 PSU with my Tavagans Red amp ($180 + $60 OPA627 upgrade), but not everyone is that crazy.


----------



## mmd8x28

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm not inexperienced in this area.  It's adjustable from 12-24v with interchangeable tips for polarity and plug size, and can supply 4500ma or 80 watts.  I've used it with an RWAudio amp that had a noisy PSU and the amp became totally silent, just like when running the amp off an external battery pack.


 

 But, can that supply be AC?  Adjustable tips for DC polarity, but the EF2 is NOT DC, it's AC.  I looked at the PCB, it really does need the AC, for the tubes, and it internally rectifies to DC for the opamps and DAC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mmd8x28 said:


> But, can that supply be AC?  Adjustable tips for DC polarity, but the EF2 is NOT DC, it's AC.  I looked at the PCB, it really does need the AC, for the tubes, and it internally rectifies to DC for the opamps and DAC.


 

 Yeah, I see what you are saying now.  i always check the amp requirements before trying a PSU, but I haven't even gotten that far yet.  You saved me the trouble of pulling out the reading glasses to read the back of the EF2 amp.  Thanks.


----------



## Professor00179

Just would like to know - can I change op amps in EF2? Has anyone tried to change op amp for something with wide sound stage? How did it sound?
   
  Are there some good tubes with better sound stage than the stock ones? I want to try tube AMPs, but I just would like to get a wider sound stage than the stock unit offers.
   
  Thank you in advance.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





professor00179 said:


> Just would like to know - can I change op amps in EF2? Has anyone tried to change op amp for something with wide sound stage? How did it sound?
> 
> Are there some good tubes with better sound stage than the stock ones? I want to try tube AMPs, but I just would like to get a wider sound stage than the stock unit offers.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


 
  Hi Flight has recommended installing a pair of AD743 opamps on a 2:1 adapter in the EF1 (not EF2).   He paired that with a JJ 12AU7 and felt it really opened up.  I don't know if you can use those opamps in the EF2, but you could PM HiFlight about it.  I haven't tried it myself, but I trust HiFlight's opinions.


----------



## Professor00179

Thank you for the response. Did you try changing tubes? How different tubes may affect soundstage and airness of the AMP? Would such a 'good' tube be expansive? I am starting to learn this hi-fi stuff and I just want to understand a bit more. I have never listened to tube AMPs. How does the soud stage of tube compare to solid state AMP?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





professor00179 said:


> Thank you for the response. Did you try changing tubes? How different tubes may affect soundstage and airness of the AMP? Would such a 'good' tube be expansive? I am starting to learn this hi-fi stuff and I just want to understand a bit more. I have never listened to tube AMPs. How does the soud stage of tube compare to solid state AMP?


 

 I did post here in the very thread about my experience with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that are in it now.  The sound opened up and became more transparent and smoother or more refined.  
   
  Soundstage can be big or small with both tube amps and SS amps.  It depends on how the amp is designed.  The EF2 soundstage is not small, but it's not as big as my maxed Woo WA6 (tubes).  And, the WA6 has a smaller soundstage than my Eddie Current ZDT (tubes again) which had the same large soundstage as the Luxman P-1u (SS) amp.  
   
  Nevertheless, the EF2 soundstage compares favorably with similarly priced amps like the Nuforce Icon (SS), Qinpu A-3 (tube) or Meier Headfive (SS), but maybe a little smaller than my Travagans Red amp with OPA627 opamps or AD743 opamp upgrade installed.  The EF2 soundstage also improves as you improve your source, and feeding a Pico DAC or Nuforce uDAC into the EF2 makes the soundstage bigger than it is when using the built-in DAC in the EF2.


----------



## Professor00179

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I needed to hear. Not sure whether I will buy this one, but it looks really attractive.


----------



## Satellite_6

Quote: 





> I did post here in the very thread about my experience with the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes that are in it now.  The sound opened up and became more transparent and smoother or more refined.


 
   
   
   
  Hello.
   
  This is my first tube amp, I've had it for about 7 months, and I'm quite happy with the amount of detail and soundstage it delivers. However I feel that that sound is unusually "messy" (lets go with that word) for the amount of detail that it provides. I would like to try these different tubes, can you tell me where I might buy them online, because I have no clue!
   
  Thanks.


----------



## daigo

You can find 6J1/6AK5/5654/CV4010 tubes on ebay fairly readily.  6AK5's are usually cost effective upgrades from the stock 6J1, while the 5654/CV4010 can start getting a little more pricey.


----------



## genclaymore

How does it sound with a AKG 702 and also do it has Asio support? Without having to use Asio4all.


----------



## mmd8x28

I just got myself some new cans.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Koss-Pro4AAT-Titanium-Pro-Headphones/dp/B00008Z1QI
   
  They sound perhaps a little "too" bright with the EF2 and Hytron tubes..  I'll have to try other tubes, but I had to turn down the treble in iTunes..  Also I had to turn the volume up a bit further than I do on my IEMs..


----------



## Varley

How does this scale against the Matrix Mini-i? I know this is the other way around - An amp with a built in DAC with the Matrix being a DAC with a built in amp - I can't decide whether to spend my money on the Matrix and then buy a Little Dot balanced amp when I have the spare money, OR buy this amp and get a seperate DAC when I have the money. ARGHH


----------



## NiGHTSfan

Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant on this, but I'm just starting to get into high-quality computer audio. I'm using a Musiland Monitor 02US and Sennheiser 555's. Would running the Musiland through this Amp result in a significant improvement in sound quality?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





nightsfan said:


> Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant on this, but I'm just starting to get into high-quality computer audio. I'm using a Musiland Monitor 02US and Sennheiser 555's. Would running the Musiland through this Amp result in a significant improvement in sound quality?


 

 Hopefully someone will chime in who has heard the Musiland Monitor 02US.


----------



## NiGHTSfan

Yeah, I think I'll be a while waiting on a response to that one...


----------



## Drigga

How does the ef2a compare to the fiio e7+e9 combo? i need a amp/dac setup for my hd650's..


----------



## renniche

How is the HiFiMan EF2 with the SRH840s? I just bought the 840s and am looking for an amp/DAC combo.


----------



## igotnojob

I am just getting into head-fi and the EF2A was my first headphone amp. This is just my experience with the EF2A but I have found the volume to be too loud with all of my headphones. Then I read on another thread that some others shared the same opinion.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/512922/hifiman-ef2a-gain
   
  On my stock EF2A, I hear channel imbalance at low volumes until about the 9 o'clock setting. By this point, the listening volume is louder than what I consider normal medium listening volume. It is so loud that I cannot have extended (longer than an hour) listening sessions without worrying about long term effects on my hearing. This is a particular problem for me because I like to listen at low volumes, sometimes fall asleep with my music on and, at the point at which the volume pot balances both channels, the volume is too loud for that. It is actually bordering on comfort levels. What I have been doing to compensate for this is to turn down the volume below 50% (maybe around 15-20%) on iTunes. This, however, is messing with the original signal with DSP and I can hear the loss in detail. Nevertheless, it is the only way I can comfortably listen to my music with the EF2A. Someone mentioned in the other thread that HE-5 or HE-6 phones could deal with the high gain better but I do not own those phones.
   
  For reference, I am using Sennheiser HD580 and AKG K701 cans, and UE Triple.Fi 10 Pro IEMs. I use iTunes -> iBasso D4 DAC -> EF2A. The high gain is still a problem when I use the EF2A's onboard DAC as well.
   
  FWIW, despite the gain problems, I still find the EF2A to sound pretty good. I know I am losing detail (a lot) when I lower my iTunes volume but it has a nice, shimmery glistening coloration which I attribute to the tubes compared to the solid detailed presentation of my D4's amp section. Even though I have what I consider to be a superbly clean-sounding Matrix M-Stage SS amp, I decided to chase the tubey sound further and am anxiously awaiting my Woo Audio WA2 to arrive.


----------



## misformatt

The massive gain on my EF2A was simply untenable.  Even with my HE-5's, I couldn't get the volume pot above 10 o'clock or so.  After getting my HDP, I was able to bypass the EF2A's pot, which helped a bit, but there was a slight hiss at that level.  The DAC was ok, but certainly a step below my uDAC2's.  I really wanted to like this unit, and it's really not _that_ bad (once you nerf the volume a bit), but if I had to do it over again, I would look elsewhere.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I wonder if something changed vs my original EF2.  I have the first EF2 sent to the US, that was demo'd at CanJam 2009, and the gain is just right for custom IEM and HD600/800.  And my volume pot lets me go very low without channel imbalance.


----------



## misformatt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I wonder if something changed vs my original EF2.  I have the first EF2 sent to the US, that was demo'd at CanJam 2009, and the gain is just right for custom IEM and HD600/800.  And my volume pot lets me go very low without channel imbalance.


 

 Most EF2 reviews I've read don't seem to have such a massively high gain level; a lot of the EF2A's seem to, though.  I had a bit of channel imbalance on my EF2A until around 9 o'clock, which balanced out well after that.  Unfortunately, even my HE-5's couldn't take volume past 10 o'clock without reaching absurd volume levels.  This only left me with about a 1/3 inch of pot travel to work with.  I thought my unit was defective, but it seemed most users had similar experiences.  It's a shame, because this amp had a lot going for it--especially at its price point.


----------



## m3ta1head

Which Mullard tubes do you guys recommend for the EF2?  I see a couple of variations on ebay.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-matched-1967-NIB-Mullard-Amperex-6AK5-EF95-6J1-tubes-/360335271522?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e5a7e662#ht_1773wt_905
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/270629165066?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f02c1580a#ht_2179wt_905


----------



## TakashiMiike

Just picked up this awesome amp for a great deal of $120 lightly used, been using it for 3 days now, it's great!!!  BIG step up from my nuforce icon mobile. The music has so much more space, layers, I've noticed it's made the high frequencies much more lucid in comparison, and has clarified the entire spectrum quiet a lot.
   
  Modded Grado sr60i + EF2A = awesomeness, thanks HPA big fan.


----------



## Sysagent

Another new Hifiman EF2A owner here and new to these forums (Hola!), I have replaced the stock tubes with a pair of Mullards CV4010's of Ebay and I am just in the process of burning it all in, upto forty eight hours or so at the moment...
   
  Like others I am having severe gain issues with this amplifier, I am using the internal DAC of the EF2A and a pair of HifiMan RE0 headphones and I struggle to get to the nine o'clock position volume wise here
   
  ;-(
   
  I am prepared to stick with the amplifer as even at these low volumes levels the quality of it shines through for the cost, so with this in mind I am prepared to throw some money at a new pair of headphones that are hopefully a bit more problematic to drive impedance wise so therefore I can get the maximum quality out of the Valve stage of the amp, also as an obvious benefit I will get better sound quality headphones than the RE0's.
   
  My budget is around £200 or less, with this in mind I have shortlisted from a technical and review perspective the following three headphones:-
   
  Shure SRH840
  Beyer Dynamic DT770 80 ohm (or 250 ohm if better)
  Denon AHD2000
   
  The headphones have to be of a closed type due to me using the setup at work and my colleagues don't want to share the audio bliss I hopefully will be having with the new headphones and I listen to a variety of musical styles from House, The Beatles, Eighties, etc (no Country & Western though sorry)
   
  Any help, advise or further thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.
   
  Many thanks
   
  Sys
   
  p.s. I know lowering the volume of Foobar is an option but I dont want to lose the resolution,etc...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sysagent said:


> Another new Hifiman EF2A owner here and new to these forums (Hola!), I have replaced the stock tubes with a pair of Mullards CV4010's of Ebay and I am just in the process of burning it all in, upto forty eight hours or so at the moment...
> 
> Like others I am having severe gain issues with this amplifier, I am using the internal DAC of the EF2A and a pair of HifiMan RE0 headphones and I struggle to get to the nine o'clock position volume wise here
> 
> ...


 

 Of those three phones, I have only tried the D2000 with the EF2 and they pair up nicely.  I have heard the Shure with a TTVJ Slim portable amp at a meet and liked them, but I never compared them side by side with the Denon.  I still prefer the Denon by a small margin.  And the EF2 does a good job of keeping the bass tight and the mids full.
   
  Also, the EF2 will take a nice step up in sound quality if you pick up a nicer external DAC like a Nuforce uDAC-2, and feed the DAC's RCA line-out into the EF2's RCA inputs.  You can lower the UDAC-2 output levels with the analog volume knob, so you still get full bit rate audio going into the EF2 amp.
   
  However, if you are listening at very low volumes with IEM through the EF2 and built-in DAC, you are not likely to notice a drop in bit rate by using software attenuation because the volume is already so low.


----------



## Sysagent

Hi Headphone Addict,

 Cheers for the response much appreciated!
   
  Couple of things on the subject if I can.
   
  The Hifiman amplifier I am using is the A variant which is the one that looks like it has a higher output (am I right?), I am concerned that the Denons might have the same issues as the RE0's which is that they are too easy to drive and the same problem will still exist.

 Also I will possibly hooking up the FiiO E7 DAC to the EF2A using the L7 LOD option so the volume output won't variable, admittedly this is an unknown (until I try it all out at work on Monday) and the volume level from the phono (CD) inputs maybe at a lesser level than the USB DAC input to the amplifier section, if so the issue is moot.
   
  Looking forward to more responses on the subject,
   
  Cheers,
   
  Sys
   
  p.s. Any idea where I could get my hands on some of those Raytheon tubes?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sysagent said:


> Hi Headphone Addict,
> 
> Cheers for the response much appreciated!
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know much about the A version changes, sorry.  As for the Raytheon, I just got lucky and was there at the right time that someone offered me a pair when I posted I was looking.
   
  PS:  I know the Pico DAC > RCA input was louder than the built-in USB DAC, so one with a variable output would be nice for your needs.  I suspect a volume attenuator from Shure or Westone could also be used to reduce the volume with your IEM as well.


----------



## rampur

I currently have the EF2A.  I don't have any gain issues with my hd650 unless i turn the volume knob way up (almost to max).  However there is definitely gain issues with my shure se530.
   
  I was considering getting a pair of hifiman he-4.  Do you guys think this amp will pair up nicely with these headphones?  I know its hard to predict but will the he-4s have gain issues with this amp?


----------



## valtopps

Im new to headphone amps. i just bought a used HIFIMAN EF2, wont get it till saturday.  ive been an audio geek for many many years. as you know your audio equpment dosent stay in your home very long (always upgrading).
  i bought this unit  because the price and the dac/amp combo and your good reviews. my question is whats better then the EF2 that wont cost a arm and a leg. i would like a coax or fiber opt inputs and a better dac chip.


----------



## Satellite_6

I have no problems with the volume control on the EF2A weather using 300 or 16 ohm headphones. . . . .
   
  LATE EDIT: Going from the EF2A's DAC to the HRT Music Streamer II DAC (said to be better than the uDAC's) didn't make much difference at all to me. I would avoid the uDAC-2 at all costs because of how badly it performs. . . (see NewAvGuy's blog).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





valtopps said:


> Im new to headphone amps. i just bought a used HIFIMAN EF2, wont get it till saturday.  ive been an audio geek for many many years. as you know your audio equpment dosent stay in your home very long (always upgrading).
> i bought this unit  because the price and the dac/amp combo and your good reviews. my question is whats better then the EF2 that wont cost a arm and a leg. i would like a coax or fiber opt inputs and a better dac chip.


 

 That would be the CEntrance DACmini (if you want something that like the EF2 seems to work with most headphones and IEM).  A cheaper Nuforce HDP would be good with almost everything except HD800 which sound a little too aggressive with the HDP.  However, the HDP volume pot doesn't have as good channel balance at very low volumes (so not as good for IEM or super efficient headphones).  Both of those have coax and optical inputs, with good "desktop amp power levels" like the EF2.  
   
  You could go for an even cheaper iBasso D10 or D12 portable, and feed the DAC into the EF2 when you need more power - the iBasso's DAC is better than the one in the EF2, but the D10 amp is not better (haven't heard the D12).


----------



## valtopps

thanks for the suggestions. centrance is $800 that's a huge jump from the $200 ef2  plus ive never heard of them. i was looking at musical fidelity m1 but that's to much to, i know they make excellent stuff. i see there's a lack of dac/amp combo units that are good, i see brands i never heard of ?????  anybody want to start a company that make quality dac/amp units we can make a ton of $. how much more would it be for ef2 to use a better dac chip?  just don't make sense to me unless there extremely expensive.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





valtopps said:


> thanks for the suggestions. centrance is $800 that's a huge jump from the $200 ef2  plus ive never heard of them. i was looking at musical fidelity m1 but that's to much to, i know they make excellent stuff. i see there's a lack of dac/amp combo units that are good, i see brands i never heard of ?????  anybody want to start a company that make quality dac/amp units we can make a ton of $. how much more would it be for ef2 to use a better dac chip?  just don't make sense to me unless there extremely expensive.


 

 Well, the thing is there are a lot of DAC/amp choices out there, but I wanted to mention one that is clearly better, not "maybe" better.  The EF2 amp section is nice, and better than it's DAC, so I think it competes very well with amps costing twice as much.  The DAC could be improved on, and I did mention that you could get a $220-300 portable iBasso DAC/amp, and feed the line out of the DAC into the EF2 for an effective upgrade of the DAC while retaining the very nice desktop amp section of the EF2.  
   
  You could also upgrade the DAC with a Headroom Micro DAC, but it's more costly than the iBasso for the same performance.  Even the $130 Nuforce uDAC-2 RCA output feeding the EF2 amp is a noticeable upgrade to the EF2's DAC (and the EF2 amp is a nice upgrade over the one in the uDAC-2).  I didn't mention uDAC-2 before because it's USB only.
   
  CEntrance is not unknown in the industry, and they developed the 24 bit USB technology that a lot of major DAC manufacturers use in their gear, including Benchmark and I think Bel Canto and others.  I mentioned that one because it's half the cost of something like a Lavry DA11, and it gets along with a wide variety of headphones and IEM.  And, with the DACmini you might not need to upgrade your DAC/amp for a very long time, unless you're an addict or OCD about audio like me.  
   
  The Nuforce HDP DAC is a definite upgrade over the EF2 DAC, but I'm not sure that the HDP amp section is as versatile as the one in the EF2 - with some phones the HDP amp section might be better (i.e. with HD600, LCD-2, HE-6), and with other phones the HDP is not as good as the EF2 (HD800, Grados).  But the EF2 amp section doesn't seem to offend the ears with just about any phone or IEM I've tried, while on the other hand with HD800 the HDP can become fatiguing over time (unless I'm using a $250 Sigma PSU with it making it cost as much as the DACmini).
   
  So, unless you are willing to spend 3-6x the cost of the EF2 to upgrade, you might be better off just getting a nicer DAC (other than another cheap PCM270X type of DAC).  The EF2 DAC sounds better than my iPod line out or Macbook Pro headphone out feeding the EF2 amp, but the EF2 amp will scale up and perform better if you feed it a better source.


----------



## valtopps

thanks again for all your help but it looks like ill be using the ef2 for awhile, works been very sloooowwww.


----------



## valtopps

well it came in today, just wondering if you would know what tubes would sound best i have sylvania gb-5654, rca 6ak5 or ge 6ak5w
   
  i did my own testing
   
  sylvanias are open and a just tad bright
  rca are laid-back
  ge are smooooth just right
   
  this test i was using the senn hd595 cans. if you use a different cans I'm sure you will have a different opinion.
   
  the amp and the dac on this unit is very nice( for the money).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





valtopps said:


> well it came in today, just wondering if you would know what tubes would sound best i have sylvania gb-5654, rca 6ak5 or ge 6ak5w
> 
> i did my own testing
> 
> ...


 

 I'm still using my Raytheon 6AK5 that I put in for the second part of the review.  They're very nice and I've not needed to change them, although I have several other sets of tubes for the amp.
   
  When I compared the EF2 to my old EF1 side by side with a nice DAC at CanJam 2009 they sounded the same, except the EF1 had more power.  To get an idea of how good that is, before I had the EF2, when I compared the EF1 to other amps like my Dark Voice 336i with good tubes I found they were on a comparable level of performance.  Although the EF1 was a little better with low impedance phones and the DV336i was a little better with high impedance phones, the differences in performance weren't huge.


----------



## valtopps

so far the best sound is from the sylvanias would like to try Raytheon .
   
  well today i was board so i took my ef2 and connected it to my musical fidelity cd-pre24 cd player to hear if this amp is good. so i connected it with audioquest silver interconnects cheetahs.
  the sound was better so a better dac would help, but i was not that thrilled with it. wondering if its my headphones (senn hd595) that i cant here the details and sound-stage i can with my thiel speakers. maybe im wanting to much out of a $200 amp/dac and  $100 cans?
   
  by the way when connected to the pc do you use 16bit/44100 or 16bit/48000? i like the sound set at 16/44100.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

valtopps said:


> so far the best sound is from the sylvanias would like to try Raytheon .
> 
> well today i was board so i took my ef2 and connected it to my musical fidelity cd-pre24 cd player to hear if this amp is good. so i connected it with audioquest silver interconnects cheetahs.
> the sound was better so a better dac would help, but i was not that thrilled with it. wondering if its my headphones (senn hd595) that i cant here the details and sound-stage i can with my thiel speakers. maybe im wanting to much out of a $200 amp/dac and  $100 cans?
> ...




Try it with an HD600, Grado HF-2 or RS-1, Denon D7000, HE-500, or HD800, etc...


----------



## valtopps

im going to take your adviced  i like to try everything first before buying new headphones. i would like to try the Raytheon 6AK5 tubes but where would i find them.       al
  also i would like to try an audio usb cable then a better dac maybe a hrt II+ dac.


----------



## valtopps

im trying to buy a used hd600, hd650 or even d2000 but i cant find any.  so i did find a hrt musicstream II+,  so much better then the dac in the ef2. the hifi ef2 sound nice now. i need new cans  someone help me.
  make sure you use a good rca cable from the dac to amp. i first tried tara lab cable its a cheap cable, it sound good but when i installed my audioquest silver cheatahs (very expensive) the sound just opened up.


----------



## valtopps

i just bought the hifiman he-4 headphones can the ef2 run them ?


----------



## MegaMushroom

How much better would would a set of ge 6ak5w tubes make this thing sound?  I'm not sure if this is normal for the stock tubes, but it appears that they power up at separate intervals.  One tube will power up faster than the other... Dunno... I guess this is what people mean by "matched" tubes?


----------



## valtopps

Im new to tube amps but i know they need to warm up a bit.


----------



## arman89

Hey Guys! which one do you think will be a better amp for grado 325is', HIFIMAN EF2 or QINPU A3? i won't be using the DAC of the EF2, since i have my own. So, amp is my only concern.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





arman89 said:


> Hey Guys! which one do you think will be a better amp for grado 325is', HIFIMAN EF2 or QINPU A3? i won't be using the DAC of the EF2, since i have my own. So, amp is my only concern.


 

 The EF2 is better with Grado and other low impedance phones like Denon.  With Sennheiser HD600/800 then the A3 is just as good.


----------



## MegaMushroom

I've gotta ask, but HeadphoneAddict... Are the Raytheon tubes worth the upgrade?  I feel like I could get more out of this amp, but I do feel a bit daunted by the price.


----------



## daigo

Almost any pair of tubes will be cleaner sounding when compared with the stock Chinese tubes.  I used GE or RCA 6AK5 tubes with my sold EF2, fairly inexpensive on ebay, and both provided a nice upgrade to the sound. 
   
  Quote: 





megamushroom said:


> I've gotta ask, but HeadphoneAddict... Are the Raytheon tubes worth the upgrade?  I feel like I could get more out of this amp, but I do feel a bit daunted by the price.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The amp is nice stock, but with upgraded tubes it becomes more refined and moves up another notch in performance.  The stock tubes were better with Denons and Sennheiser HD600 than they were with HD800 or Grado HF-2.  Now it's good with them all.


----------



## MohawkUS

Is this amp comparable to the Valhalla or the Little Dot amps? I'm looking for something for my Ultrasone PRO2900s (40ohms) and I'm not sure where to look. My music of choice is metal, so I've been leaning toward the more forgiving tube amps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Is this amp comparable to the Valhalla or the Little Dot amps? I'm looking for something for my Ultrasone PRO2900s (40ohms) and I'm not sure where to look. My music of choice is metal, so I've been leaning toward the more forgiving tube amps.


 

 This is a hybrid amp that will handle low impedance better than the OTL amps like Valhalla or some LD amps.  I think it should be more than enough to do well with most headphones.  I thought it sounded as good as my $350 EF1 amp did when I got it in 2009, just with less power than EF1, but it still has more power than my single ended portable amps.


----------



## Zsubbo

Hi !
   
  I had some problems with my Hifiman EF2A (with Russian 6N23P-EV tubes). I've tried it with the HRT Music streamer 2+ DAC, but with the Sennheiser HD600 cans the bass  had a terrible distortion, with the Grado Sr225 it was much better but it was still there. Can you help me with this one ?
   
  Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zsubbo said:


> Hi !
> 
> I had some problems with my Hifiman EF2A (with Russian 6N23P-EV tubes). I've tried it with the HRT Music streamer 2+ DAC, but with the Sennheiser HD600 cans the bass  had a terrible distortion, with the Grado Sr225 it was much better but it was still there. Can you help me with this one ?
> 
> Sorry for my bad english.


 

 Well, you need to isolate the problem to whether it's the source, the amp, the tubes or the phones.
   
  Since it has this problem this with both phones it's probably something else, and not the headphones.
   
  Try switching back to the built-in DAC and see if the issue goes away.  If it does get better then the problem is either in the HRT DAC or the RCA inputs of the amp.  In that case, try a different source feeding the RCA inputs and see if it gets better.  If it gets better with the built in DAC and a different source then it's not the amp and the HRT may be the issue.
   
  If none of those changes improves the issue, then try swapping the tubes.


----------



## Reticuli2

Will they change the gain available for you or swap the pot for a more expensive one with better balance at the bottom?  If I got something like this, I'd want to use it with the HD25 in addition to my other cans.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

reticuli2 said:


> Will they change the gain available for you or swap the pot for a more expensive one with better balance at the bottom?  If I got something like this, I'd want to use it with the HD25 in addition to my other cans.




I do not believe they will customize these, but with the gain they ship with it works well with IEM and full size phones. My amp has a nice volume pot without low volume channel imbalance, so I don't need a lower gain.


----------



## BournePerfect

Wow Larry you're still going above and beyond to help everyone out in this old thread-much appreciated! I've almost pulled the trigger about 5 different times now on this, but can't really find impressions on how it might fare with my AD2K's. Have you heard these or any other AT's by chance with the EF2?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Reticuli2

What is the EF2's input volume in dBFS with USB?  Is it Windows default, so you just leave it at max?  Because it says:
   
  "Default computer volume for EF2 USB DAC is 50%. Customer will have to maximize computer volume after connect EF2 as USB DAC."
   
  So you put it at 50% and leave it or you just do that for connecting and then change it to max?  That seems like a contradicting or confusing statement for them to make.
   
  Any other weird and useful specs you guys know on it?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Wow Larry you're still going above and beyond to help everyone out in this old thread-much appreciated! I've almost pulled the trigger about 5 different times now on this, but can't really find impressions on how it might fare with my AD2K's. Have you heard these or any other AT's by chance with the EF2?
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I have not tried the EF2 with ATH-AD2000, which I sold after a few months because I preferred my balanced HD600 slightly more.  The AD2000 seemed like a midrange centric headphone, although bass and treble weren't lacking it sounded a little plain to me.  I'm sure the EF2 would power them fine, as my WA6 was able to drive them no problem.
  
  Quote: 





reticuli2 said:


> What is the EF2's input volume in dBFS with USB?  Is it Windows default, so you just leave it at max?  Because it says:
> 
> "Default computer volume for EF2 USB DAC is 50%. Customer will have to maximize computer volume after connect EF2 as USB DAC."
> 
> ...


 

 When you plug in the EF2 DAC then Windows would default to 50% system volume.  After plugging in you would need to manually turn up the system volume to 100% to get full dynamic range and volume.


----------



## Reticuli2

O.k.  That seems fine. 
   
  What about its output impedence?
   
  Anyone used Rightmark to test the EF2, yet?  I'm interested in its frequency response, noise floor, and where the distortion harmonics are at.  Little worried about a tube amp being too euphonic for the HD25 and t50rp.


----------



## 78finn

Just bought a HiFiMan EF2 only to find out that it is not x64 bit compatible!!!!? So will not run on either win 7 or vista x64! Bugger...it's only good fir the 32bit systems. You can still use the RCA, but not the USB. Anyone else found this!?

Also there is now a EF2a version? Anyone own one? What's the difference? Bet it's dac is 64bit compatible right!? Would be just my luck!


----------



## Reticuli2

That would be bad.


----------



## MegaMushroom

Quote: 





78finn said:


> Just bought a HiFiMan EF2 only to find out that it is not x64 bit compatible!!!!? So will not run on either win 7 or vista x64! Bugger...it's only good fir the 32bit systems. You can still use the RCA, but not the USB. Anyone else found this!?
> 
> Also there is now a EF2a version? Anyone own one? What's the difference? Bet it's dac is 64bit compatible right!? Would be just my luck!


 

 Well now... That is quite the issue.  I do have the EF2A, and it does accept Windows 7 64-bit.  Granted I am forced to dig through a few menus to get it running.  I'm not really sure what the differences are other than this supposed 64-bit compatibility, and different face plate.


----------



## Reticuli2

O.k., so the "A" model will work.
   
  Anyone compared the EF2A to the Fiio E7?  I'm torn between those two or, if I decide the DAC isn't necessary (especially at only 16bit), maybe a Grado clone.
   
  Anyone done a simple Rightmark test back into a good desktop soundcard to see what the real world performance of the HiFiman is?  Come on guys, it's easy.  I did it on all my mp3 players, mixers, receivers, and headphone amps back home.  Easy, quick.  Just requires a sound card with line input, a Y-splitter headphone cable with a pair of cheap low-impedence earbuds connected on one end to give it a load, some cables, and you're off to the races!


----------



## 78finn

ok so after a bit of research, the only difference between the EF2 and EF2A is a slight better out put on the EF2A. I have managed to get the EF2 working on Win 7 x64.
   
  After a bit of digging around I found out that both versions of the AMP have the same make/model of DAC...so they interface with the source in pretty much the same way.
   
  The trick is what versions of Win 7 x64 you are running...I tried the amp on a Win 7 basic machine and home premium machine...neither worked. But plugged them into a Win 7 Pro and Win Ultimate machine (thanks to JB HiFi for letting me test this out) and Bingo!!!
   
  Now I'm know expert...and don't pretend to be....but the guy in the shop told me that both Win 7 x64 pro and ultimate have and XP compatibility mode, but that Basic and Home premium versions do not. Apparently this allows most software and some hardware intended for XP to run in legacy mode on a Win 7 x64 platform.
   
  Well this seemed to work for me! Has anyone else discovered this at all?


----------



## 78finn

Hey Reticuli2 you should just go and listen to one. Its under $200 and sounds fantastic... The only thing I would suggest is swapping out the stock tubes it comes with, as they are a bit sharp..emphasis on the highs. I suspect they have used these tubes because, well they are cheap, but it also trys to make the AMP sound more detailed than it really is...
   
  Its a valve AMP, so its pretty soft sounding, big emphasis on the mids and lower end. If you looking for accuracy & faithful reproduction...well you should probably look elsewhere. If you are looking for something musical and warm sounding, then its a great choice.
   
  I run a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900s through it (which are by no means monitor earphones ; ) ...really nice smooth sound, big bass...nice mids....but I wouldn't say its by any means appropriate for analytical play - just not that sort of product. You can tweek it with an equlizer, but it still rounds the edges of most recordings.


----------



## lithium1085

Hi everyone I am strongly considering buying a Hifiman EF2A to use as both amp/dac with the HD 598  out of my laptop. I guess I might sound like a broken record but all the people complaining about the gain on EF2A has me scared. I wanted some input from you guys about this issue and whether its significant.
   
  I am totally new to the forum and I have no experience with amps so I would really appreciate any help.


----------



## MegaMushroom

Quote: 





lithium1085 said:


> Hi everyone I am strongly considering buying a Hifiman EF2A to use as both amp/dac with the HD 598  out of my laptop. I guess I might sound like a broken record but all the people complaining about the gain on EF2A has me scared. I wanted some input from you guys about this issue and whether its significant.
> 
> I am totally new to the forum and I have no experience with amps so I would really appreciate any help.


 


  No need to be scared.  As long as you keep the amp volume over 8 o'clock it should be good... Granted anything after 10' is going to be loud.  Overall I've found the 598 and EF2A to be pretty good.


----------



## lithium1085

Quote: 





megamushroom said:


> No need to be scared.  As long as you keep the amp volume over 8 o'clock it should be good... Granted anything after 10' is going to be loud.  Overall I've found the 598 and EF2A to be pretty good.


 

 Thanks a lot ........I am just being overly cautious i guess


----------



## Corbet

Looking to pick up an EF2A for my D2000s and I was wondering - is there a consensus on some good replacement tubes for the EF2A? Something not too expensive?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





corbet said:


> Looking to pick up an EF2A for my D2000s and I was wondering - is there a consensus on some good replacement tubes for the EF2A? Something not too expensive?


 

 I've been partial to Raytheon 6AK5 and you can find them pretty decently priced on eBay or other places.


----------



## Corbet

Has anyone compared this amp/dac straight up with the Audinst HUD-MX1?


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Hey, a little help needed please.
   
  I'm new to this all, but am looking for the right DAC/AMP combo to get the best possible sound from my setup.
  I'm using a Macbook Pro with Grado SR225i's (and occasionally Audio-Technica ATH M30's).
  My music goes across many genres (blues, indie, classical, jazz, alternative, country, rap, etc.. etc..).
  Some music files are FLAC, but most are MP3 and M4A of varying qualities.
   
  I'm looking for a desktop DAC/AMP to give me the best sound quality (that 'wow' factor) for under $200.
  I like that sound that makes you feel as if the artist is performing right in front of you.
   
  I bought and returned the Fiio e7 after a few days of listening, as I didn't hear any real difference out of the Grado's between the e7 and my Macbook headphone jack.
  I've been reading up on these DAC/AMPs, and like the EF2. I also see that the new Fiio e10 is coming out, and have read about about the Nuforce uDAC2.
  Will any of these (or other recommendations) make my listening experience (subjective, yes I know) with my setup better?
   
  Thanks!
   
  ps: would a DAC/AMP plugged into the USB of my Mac drain a lot of battery if I play continuously for several hours a day? (one appeal of the EF2 is that it has a power cord)


----------



## liamstrain

Not sure if it's wow factor, but I am using exactly the same rig (MbPro, EF2A, 225is) and it's a hell of a lot of fun to listen to. Especially for Jazz, rock, etc. Classical is great too, but I'm not sure the Grado are the best match for that.. I like my AKG 702 for heavy classical listening. 
   
  the EF2A has it's own power supply - no battery, and definitely not bus driven - so no battery related factors. I also use a Headroom Total Bithead, which can be driven from the USB (or has its own batteries as well) - I've not noticed any significant battery drain from that set up.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Hey, thanks for the quick reply liamstrain,
   
  When you say that setup is hell of a lot fun, what do you mean by that? (Will I notice a big difference using the EF2 instead of just plugging in to the Mac?)
  Why use a separate amp - would the EF2 amp be good enough?
   
  Lastly, are you familiar with the Fiio e10? I am wondering if a new product/technology will be better, especially for half the cost.
  I'm going to get either the EF2 or e10, and am hoping someone can steer me in the right direction.
  Thanks again!


----------



## liamstrain

I really enjoy listening to the Grado 225i via the EF2A - It feels like it brought out (and controlled bettter) more bass to the cans than they had, and feels like the presentation is just that much faster, and more immersive - especially with Jazz. I enjoy listening more, than I do just through the MacBook Pro's headphone out. I don't know if I could say that there is a truly quantifiable thing I can put my finger on that makes it better - it just is. My music sounds better, and I enjoy listening more. 
   
  Will you notice a big difference? I don't know... but I did.
   
  I am not familiar with teh FiiO amps, to speak to them with any authority. I like their LOD cable... *shrug*


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

i'm leaning toward the EF2 now... nice.
  any tubes you could recommend for our setup?


----------



## liamstrain

I'm still playing with the stock tubes. But I have a set of Mullard M8100 on the way, and I'm looking forward to trying them. They have a reputation for warming up the sound - which would be nice in the 702s (which can feel a bit clinical at times).


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

much appreciated, liamstrain!
   
  any other advice or suggestions are welcome, if other people out there care to chime in.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

---also wondering if the EF2 can be used with already powered desktop speakers, or is it just for headphones?


----------



## liamstrain

I suppose it *could* - it only has the one Headphone output though... with the quality of most powered desktop speakers (pro-monitors aside) I probably wouldn't bother.


----------



## MegaMushroom

The Raytheon 6ak5w tubes have been highly recommended for this dac/amp, but the stock tubes aren't all that bad.  I'm not sure if you are aware, but HiFiMAN did release an updated EF2A which is supposed to be better.  Not sure what has changed, but I think that it is hidden somewhere in this thread.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





megamushroom said:


> The Raytheon 6ak5w tubes have been highly recommended for this dac/amp, but the stock tubes aren't all that bad.  I'm not sure if you are aware, but HiFiMAN did release an updated EF2A which is supposed to be better.  Not sure what has changed, but I think that it is hidden somewhere in this thread.


 

 I also thought it sounded pretty good with the stock tubes, but the Raytheon added an element of refinement and balance, with smoother highs.  I still think this amp is a gem for the price.


----------



## liamstrain

Just got in the Mullard 8100's. Even without burning them in any, I am liking the sound. Maybe more roundness in the lower mids, and smoother highs - especially through the AKG 702s. 
   
  No really good way to do a true ABX between these and the stock tubes - but I'm happy, and that's all I'm going to worry about for now.


----------



## calipilot227

Just got my EF2A today and am awaiting some Raytheon 6ak5 tubes (factory matched). Even with the stock tubes, it sounds very good with my HD580s. And it can play loud too! My volume pot is somewhere between the 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock position with the Senns.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





78finn said:


> Just bought a HiFiMan EF2 only to find out that it is not x64 bit compatible!!!!? So will not run on either win 7 or vista x64! Bugger...it's only good fir the 32bit systems. You can still use the RCA, but not the USB. Anyone else found this!?
> Also there is now a EF2a version? Anyone own one? What's the difference? Bet it's dac is 64bit compatible right!? Would be just my luck!


 

 The EF2A works fine with 64 bit windows 7 (that's what I'm using right now)


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

...some more help/advice needed please.
   
  wondering if I should get the EF2 to pair with my Macbook Pro and Grado 225's & ATH M30's
  OR
  if the same money is better spent on a new pair of headphone, like the ATH M50's


----------



## Reticuli2

Still no info on the EF2A's output impedance?


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





reticuli2 said:


> Still no info on the EF2A's output impedance?


 


  From the head-direct site:
  Input Impedence: 47k
 Output Impedence: 32-300 Ohm
 Output at 32 Ohm: 3 v, 320 mw
 Output at 150 Ohm: 6.2 v, 256
   
  Were you looking for other information?


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> ...some more help/advice needed please.
> 
> wondering if I should get the EF2 to pair with my Macbook Pro and Grado 225's & ATH M30's
> OR
> if the same money is better spent on a new pair of headphone, like the ATH M50's


 

 I like the results I got with my SR60's (modded, sound a lot like SR225's). The ATH-M50 doesn't benefit much from amping.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> I like the results I got with my SR60's (modded, sound a lot like SR225's). The ATH-M50 doesn't benefit much from amping.


 


  thanks for the reply, but what I'm asking is:
   
  with my setup (Macbook Pro, Grado 225's, ATH M30's, with all genre's of music)
  and about $150 to spend,
   
  would I benefit the most from buying the EF2a OR from buying a new pair of headphones (like the ATH M50's for example)????


----------



## liamstrain

Honestly, with that budget and current set up, a set of headphones entirely unlike what you already have, would probably be the most fun/benefit. 
   
  Maybe the Sennheiser 555 - to mix it up a bit, or Shure 840? 
   
  None of your current phones require an amp - and are pretty forgiving of sub-optimal source, but all would benefit from one down the line. 
   
  But most bang for the buck right now, is probably in another set of cans.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> Honestly, with that budget and current set up, a set of headphones entirely unlike what you already have, would probably be the most fun/benefit.
> 
> Maybe the Sennheiser 555 - to mix it up a bit, or Shure 840?
> 
> ...


 
  thanks, liamstrain.
   
  which cans would you say are best for watching movies on my macbook?


----------



## liamstrain

No idea. I've never considered watching movies with headphones.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> thanks, liamstrain.
> 
> which cans would you say are best for watching movies on my macbook?


 

 Something with a good soundstage. Sennheiser HD555 and ATH-AD700 come to mind. However, if you're happy with the sound of your SR225's, then the EF2A will refine their sound nicely.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I hated the 555 - sounded like rubbish even with an amp.  The SRH-840 or D2000 would be good with movies and not need a lot of power.


----------



## Reticuli2

It only has one output impedance.  The 32-300 ohm spec is which range of headphone impedances Hifiman is saying is appropriate for it, which is (pardon the pun) a canned spec that many headphone jacks will claim.  That's like saying such and such phono preamp is good for cartridges with inductance anywhere from 200-1200 millihenries.  Kind of a worthless spec.  The other one is just telling you there the output at a given impedance.
  Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> From the head-direct site:
> Input Impedence: 47kOutput Impedence: 32-300 OhmOutput at 32 Ohm: 3 v, 320 mwOutput at 150 Ohm: 6.2 v, 256
> 
> Were you looking for other information?


----------



## liamstrain

Ok - well, if I ever get a multimeter into the office, I'll take a measurement for you.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I hated the 555 - sounded like rubbish even with an amp.  The SRH-820 or D2000 would be good with movies and not need a lot of power.


 
  SRH-820?? (I can't find this anywhere) Do you mean the Shure SRH840? The AHD2000 look nice, but are too expensive for me.
   
  Also, I'm getting conflicting advice on this site (to be expected, I know), but with my setup (Macbook Pro, Grado 225's, ATH M30's, with all genre's of music) and about $150 to spend, would I benefit the most from anew set of cans or from buying the EF2a?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> SRH-820?? (I can't find this anywhere) Do you mean the Shure SRH840? The AHD2000 look nice, but are too expensive for me.
> 
> Also, I'm getting conflicting advice on this site (to be expected, I know), but with my setup (Macbook Pro, Grado 225's, ATH M30's, with all genre's of music) and about $150 to spend, would I benefit the most from anew set of cans or from buying the EF2a?


 

 Yeah, that was a typo, sorry.  The EF2A to properly feed the SR-225 would be my choice, since it pairs well with Grados and has more current for low impedance phones.  If the EF2A doesn't make them sound a bit better I'll be surprised.  And if it doesn't, at least you have a good DAC/amp for the price, and can save up over time to get some nicer headphones to pair with the EF2.  I just can't think of a phone for $150 that would clearly pass up the SR-225.  The SRH840 might, but I've never compared them, and haven't heard the 840 since 2009.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Yeah, that was a typo, sorry.  The EF2A to properly feed the SR-225 would be my choice, since it pairs well with Grados and has more current for low impedance phones.  If the EF2A doesn't make them sound a bit better I'll be surprised.  And if it doesn't, at least you have a good DAC/amp for the price, and can save up over time to get some nicer headphones to pair with the EF2.  I just can't think of a phone for $150 that would clearly pass up the SR-225.  The SRH840 might, but I've never compared them, and haven't heard the 840 since 2009.


 

  
  Thanks for the reply.
   
  I've decided on getting the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (80 Ohm), to go along with my Grado 225's and Macbook Pro.
  For that setup, would you suggest the EF2A, Total Bithead, or Fiio e10??
  I suppose I'd rather a solid state amp (as opposed to tubes) if they are all in the same ballpark and would suit my needs similarly.
   
  And the Fiio e10 is half the price of those two. I'm hoping the e10 will be a good enough match for both the 225's and DT770 Pro80.
  Any further advice?


----------



## liamstrain

I have not seen the reviews for the E10, but both the 225 and 770/80 should be pretty easy to drive and well within the capabilities of most amps in its class.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I've decided on getting the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (80 Ohm), to go along with my Grado 225's and Macbook Pro.
> For that setup, would you suggest the EF2A, Total Bithead, or Fiio e10??
> ...


 

 I have only heard the Fiio E3 and E5.  The only DT770 I have tried were Darth Beyer (woodied 770 32 ohm) and they sucked.  You shoulda gone with the SRH-840.


----------



## Nananine

I purchased an EF2A a month and a half ago and I really like it.  Unfortunately, a day ago the amplifier end of the amp stopped working.  The tubes don't glow and I don't get any amplifier gain.  Does anyone know why this could be happening?


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





nananine said:


> I purchased an EF2A a month and a half ago and I really like it.  Unfortunately, a day ago the amplifier end of the amp stopped working.  The tubes don't glow and I don't get any amplifier gain.  Does anyone know why this could be happening?


 

 Check to make sure the tubes are seated properly. Otherwise, you may have a defective unit. Hifiman has good customer service, so contact them if it doesn't work.


----------



## Nananine

They're definitely seated properly, so my amp may be defective.  This is happening way to close to the release of Battlefield 3


----------



## liamstrain

I'm with Calipilot - if it was just one tube, I'd suggest a faulty tube and replacement as the first check - but both tubes out sounds like something in the circuit somewhere... contact Hifiman.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Could be the wall wart - maybe it's as simple as replacing the power supply?
   
  You can't tell if it's only the amp that is not working simply because the DAC still shows up on the computer, since the DAC is powered by the computer even if the amp's PSU is bad.


----------



## tiobilli

Do you think an alternative and better PSU is needed?
If so, what PSU do you recommend?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I've never tried an alternative PSU.  I think this might use a wallwart that puts out AC power, and not many aftermarket ones like that are out there.  I'd have to double check on that.  Haven't you contacted customer service yet, after this many weeks?


----------



## jerVic

Hi:
   
  I'm having a problem with my newly purchased EF2A.  It doesn't work using the USB port.
   
  When I plug it into my iMac (2 years old, 2.8GHz Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, OSX 10.7.2) or my older MacBook Pro (2006, 15") I get the following message:
   
   
  "*Because a USB device was drawing too much power from your computer, one or more of your USB devices **have been disabled.*


> [size=medium]
> 
> 
> >
> ...





>





>





> I've tried:





> - three different USB cables





> - a powered (Dynex USB 2.0 4 port) USB hub





> - a crappy old Windows XP Pro computer





> - a Windows Vista Computer





>





> No luck with any combinations of the above.





>





> The amp DOES work when I run my CD player through the RCA inputs.





>





> I'm in a conversation with Head-Direct customer service (they're the ones that suggested the powered





> USB hub) as well, but thought I'd post here to see.





>





> My understanding is that to set it up for the Mac, you:





> - plug it into an unused USB port





> - select it as the device for sound output from System Preferences->Sound->Output





> Is that correct?





>





>





> Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Since it is happening on multiple OS/Platforms, I would guess it's a defect in the Amp.  I did read a thread around here, however, that specifically said NOT to use the front or side USB ports on Macs as they are sharing power with the keyboard/mouse and when they powercycle after periods of non-use, it creates an audio skip in the SQ.  I don't know if that would be related to your problem or not, but maybe try hooking up to the rear ports?  I'm just running off of a cheap little netbook, but I get a HUGE SQ difference if I use the USB ports on the left versus the one on the right, and I'm guessing it's for the same reason.  I never get error messages though.  Hope you get it all figured out, as it is a nice product!


----------



## jerVic

Thanks.  I'd heard about the possible issues with USB ports being shared with other things (keyboard, mouse), so I tried a number of different ones.
   
  I think this is a problem with the amp. as well.  Hopefully Head-Direct will do right by me.


----------



## TigreNegrito

The guys around here all seem to think so!  Good luck!


----------



## kalla

Anyone recommends this amp with low impedance IEMs??
  Thanks.


----------



## liamstrain

kalla - no. It is an OTL tube output, which means it has a fairly high gain, and high output impedence. It does not really do well at all with low impedance headphones of any type, typically causing you to turn down the volume dial very low (where there can be a channel imbalance), and/or poor electrical damping of the headphone which can affect bass clarity and quality (sounding boomy and muddy).
   
  It is a great value in tube amp and dac for mid to higher impedance cans, but for low, I think it is a bit lacking (as would be just about any OTL tube amp at any price).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

liamstrain said:


> kalla - no. It is an OTL tube output, which means it has a fairly high gain, and high output impedence. It does not really do well at all with low impedance headphones of any type, typically causing you to turn down the volume dial very low (where there can be a channel imbalance), and/or poor electrical damping of the headphone which can affect bass clarity and quality (sounding boomy and muddy).
> 
> It is a great value in tube amp and dac for mid to higher impedance cans, but for low, I think it is a bit lacking (as would be just about any OTL tube amp at any price).




Ummmm... I don't agree with any of that. My understanding is this is a tube hybrid amp like the EF1 that proceeded it and the EF5 that came after, not OTL. I've used mine with a wide variety of headphones and IEM, including my custom IEM, and have no problems with low or high impedance phones. It competes quite well with other amps in this price range too. As a matter of fact, it actually controls the bass on my UE11pro customs very well.


----------



## liamstrain

Hmm - you could be right about it being a hybrid (output stage via opamp?)
   
  You haven't had issues with the gain either? With high sensitivity and low impedance phones I can barely turn the volume knob before it's too loud. rarely can I get past the channel imbalance mark on mine (which isn't much). It's a bit better from the USB since I can digitally turn things down, but using the CD/Line in, this is nearly unusable. 
   
  Edit:
  Right you are - the tubes are the input stage, not output. I stand corrected. I will maintain that I have not found it a good combination with the IEMs I tried, or low impedance/high sensitivity headphones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

liamstrain said:


> Hmm - you could be right about it being a hybrid (output stage via opamp?)
> 
> You haven't had issues with the gain either? With high sensitivity and low impedance phones I can barely turn the volume knob before it's too loud. rarely can I get past the channel imbalance mark on mine (which isn't much). It's a bit better from the USB since I can digitally turn things down, but using the CD/Line in, this is nearly unusable.
> 
> ...




Yeah, there's always gonna be some headphone that doesn't work well with some amp. As for the RCA inputs being too loud, it depends on the source's output voltage, and what I recall trying with the EF2 are the Pico DAC-only, iBasso D10 and D4, andNuforce uDAC's which weren't too loud.


----------



## kalla

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Yeah, there's always gonna be some headphone that doesn't work well with some amp. As for the RCA inputs being too loud, it depends on the source's output voltage, and what I recall trying with the EF2 are the Pico DAC-only, iBasso D10 and D4, andNuforce uDAC's which weren't too loud.


 

 So is there any amp you recommend for IEMs. Let's say with the budget under $200. Will the amp improve the sound or just a good DAC is enough?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

kalla said:


> So is there any amp you recommend for IEMs. Let's say with the budget under $200. Will the amp improve the sound or just a good DAC is enough?




Well, the thing is that a lot depends on what you will use as a source, and whether it needs to be portable or not. I noted in my review that the DAC in the EF2 sounded better than feeding the amp with my MacBook 3.5mm jack or my 4G Nano, but that the Pico DAC takes it even a notch higher.

In my case, my EF2 works well with IEM and I still have it. Granted, I don't use it much since I upgraded to a DAcmini, but I still think the EF2 is a good value. Most inexpensive DAC/amps will have some channel imbalance at very low volumes with IEM, but some are better than others. My EF2 is one of the good ones for IEM, but the channel balance at the lowest volumes is not as good as with my RSA amps or Pico Slim. But it's better than the low volume balance on something like my Meier Headsix, original uDAC or HDP.

As for other options, For IEM I've been fairly impressed with the iBasso D4, which has a DAC that performs close to the Pico DAC, and a very transparent and spacious sounding amp. It's not as warm, euphoric and romantic sounding as the EF2, nor is it as powerful, but it's in your ballpark price range ($219) and is a good all around amp for most IEM and many full size phones. Low volume channel balance is not any better than my particular EF2.


----------



## kalla

Thanks for the info.
  Well I'll use it with my laptop, so I prefer something with good DAC integrated. The powerful amp is not important with IEMs,too. The EF2A's dac seems not so good due to some reviews I read before. Have you tried the FiiO E7/E10 or even the new E17? Are their DACs better?? They're much cheaper,too.


----------



## MSnyder85

Quick question! I My setup is Asus Xonar Essence ST RCA to RCA HifiMan EF2A (on CD not DAC) - Sennheiser HD650. I've noticed when I run my cans through the Xonar that everything is fine but when I run it through the EF2A there is a channel unbalance (The left channel is louder than the right). Does burn in solve this or should I return it?


----------



## liamstrain

Do you get the imbalance only when the volume knob is turned pretty far down? 
   
  It could be poorly matched tubes. Have you tried swapping the tubes to see if the imbalance swaps sides? If that is the case, then I would get new tubes.


----------



## MSnyder85

No I haven't had the chance to do that yet. Does the amp need to properly be burnt in?


----------



## liamstrain

Tubes do change a bit over time, but I don't think it would be enough to balance out an audible channel imbalance. Try swapping the tubes first. 
   
  Things to also check - does it happen both from the CD in and the USB in... does it change depending on the volume position. Also, if it only happens through the CD in, try a different source as well. 
   
  Just to narrow down possible culprits.


----------



## MSnyder85

As of right now I notice that it actually happens with Foobar 2000, is this normal? I'm using ASIO.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





msnyder85 said:


> As of right now I notice that it actually happens with Foobar 2000, is this normal? I'm using ASIO.


 

 Maybe check the balance control in Foobar? I experience a channel imbalance at lower volumes, but once I turn it up past the 9 o'clock position, it goes away.


----------



## MSnyder85

How're you liking your EF2A? Did you change out the tubes on it? Well I changed it to WASAPI and no problems whatsoever!  I don't even get the pop crackle that I'd get when clicking another song! ASIO =FAIL!!!


----------



## liamstrain

Glad you got it sorted. 
   
  I do like my EF2A... I replaced the tubes with NOS Mullard 4010/8100 tubes - I didn't spend a lot of time with the stock tubes to do a true comparison between them, but I do like the sound I get. Fun little amp.


----------



## MSnyder85

That'll be next on my to buy list!  I swear ever since I joined this forum I first bought the HD428, now I have the HD650 and all that other stuff!


----------



## MegaMushroom

I do need to get a new set of tubes... The stock tubes to me feel like they don't give me the full sonic experience this amp could give me.  Never mind the fact the left tube appears to take its sweet time warming up compared to the right one.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





megamushroom said:


> I do need to get a new set of tubes... The stock tubes to me feel like they don't give me the full sonic experience this amp could give me.  Never mind the fact the left tube appears to take its sweet time warming up compared to the right one.


 

 I liked the results I got by replacing the stock tubes with some NOS Raytheon tubes, slightly warmer sound, larger soundstage. Overall, it sounds more refined, and at $30 for a matched pair on eBay, I would highly recommend it.


----------



## jerVic

Quote: 





jervic said:


> Thanks.  I'd heard about the possible issues with USB ports being shared with other things (keyboard, mouse), so I tried a number of different ones.
> 
> I think this is a problem with the amp. as well.  Hopefully Head-Direct will do right by me.


 


  And they did.  After a few emails back and forth, and a bit of a delay because of Chinese New Years, my replacement EF2A arrived today.  Works, and sounds awesome!
   
  Thanks, Head-Direct!


----------



## liamstrain

huzzah!


----------



## dal9033

Hi everyone. I recently bought this little amp and really love it. Now I want to use it as a DAC for my speakers. Is there any chance I can bypass the amp section and use it as a DAC only??


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





dal9033 said:


> Hi everyone. I recently bought this little amp and really love it. Now I want to use it as a DAC for my speakers. Is there any chance I can bypass the amp section and use it as a DAC only??


 

 Nope.


----------



## magicalbanana

So I found out that one of my stock tubes were broken and now I am running my Hifiman without tubes. I felt the stock tubes were too strong on the highs and want a more warmer sound. What tubes do you guys recommend me in getting? Or should I just save some money and run it without tubes? It actually sounds fine when I set my volume knob to max.


----------



## MegaMushroom

Quote: 





magicalbanana said:


> So I found out that one of my stock tubes were broken and now I am running my Hifiman without tubes. I felt the stock tubes were too strong on the highs and want a more warmer sound. What tubes do you guys recommend me in getting? Or should I just save some money and run it without tubes? It actually sounds fine when I set my volume knob to max.


 
   
  Tubes aren't that expensive.  It's like running a turbo car without a turbo.  You can, buy why?


----------



## liamstrain

I really like the Mullard 4010/8100 tubes in the EF2A. Warm, but not muddy. And not exotic or too spendy.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

I'm quite curious about the tube sound, and am considering getting the EF2A.
   
  But I already have a Fiio e9+e10... so I'm wondering if getting another budget amp/DAC is worth the money.
  I mean, the e9+e10 drive my HD 600, SR225i, ATH M50, and DT 770 Pro80's pretty well.
  Will the EF2A do anything for me? Switching back and forth between the 2 amps, is there a significantly noticeable difference?
   
   
  Thanks.
   
  edit: Might the Little Dot MK II introduce me to the tube sound just the same, but at half the cost?


----------



## magicalbanana

Ok thanks. I'll check out the Mullards.


----------



## MegaMushroom

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> I'm quite curious about the tube sound, and am considering getting the EF2A.
> 
> But I already have a Fiio e9+e10... so I'm wondering if getting another budget amp/DAC is worth the money.
> I mean, the e9+e10 drive my HD 600, SR225i, ATH M50, and DT 770 Pro80's pretty well.
> ...


 

 I might be wrong, but I believe that the LD MKII is just a tube amp, while the EF2A is a hybrid solidstate/tube amp with an integrated DAC.  I'd think that the Little Dot might a better choice for that classic "tube sound."  Can't say all that much since I've never heard a Little Dot amp, but they seem to be well regarded all things considered.


----------



## liamstrain

I agree with MegaMushroom, If I were in your situation, I'd probably use the E10 as your dac and output to a dedicated tube amp (and likely not a hybrid unless I only had low impedance headphones).


----------



## mrAdrian

Want to see how others find the pairing of the EF2A and headphones I own... Very concerned about channel imbalance as well.
   

 D2000 - I don't find the mids to be too recessed, it is not as forward as say the HD580, but it isn't too bad. Highs are about borderline too bright. 
 MS1000 - Mod from the Alessandro ms1. Requires a lot more volume to sound equally loud, as drivers are very far away from my ears.
 HD580 - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



 DT1350
 ATH-EW9 - This one has some quite sibilant highs


----------



## GaryPham

Hey guys,
   
  Finally just picked up an EF2A and am really excited about changing out the tubes once it arrives.  I was wondering if any of you guys out there can give me a cliffnote version on some of the other tubes I can use with this amp and basically what I can expect from each one.  I'm going to be using them with a pair of Denon D2000's if that will help.  Right now I'm mainly trying to decide between a pair of NOS Mullar CV4010's or Raytheo 6AK5W's.  Has anyone here used both of these tubes and can tell me which generally they liked better?  Also other suggestions of other tubes is greatly welcome too and if you could also provide me with where I could buy them at for the lowest price, that would be great too.
   
  Thanks guys!


----------



## GaryPham

anyone?


----------



## MegaMushroom

Quote: 





garypham said:


> anyone?


 


  I'd recommend reading through the thread.  There are many mentions of tubes and their effects on the sound.  You should be able to find the bulk of your answers in the last 10-15 pages.  Ebay seems to be the most reliable source from what I've seen.


----------



## espandon

Hi guys,
   
  I want to multiply the inputs of the EF2 so that i can plug my DAC and CD player at the same time. But how? Any ideas?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





espandon said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I want to multiply the inputs of the EF2 so that i can plug my DAC and CD player at the same time. But how? Any ideas?


 

 Not sure I understand the question.  You can plug in the CD player to the RCA inputs and the computer to the USB input, and then use the button on the front to choose which source to listen to.


----------



## espandon

Hi,
   
  I am using another DAC with the amp.
   
  So, basically i need two RCA's. One for my Dacmagic and one for my cd player. Any ideas?
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Not sure I understand the question.  You can plug in the CD player to the RCA inputs and the computer to the USB input, and then use the button on the front to choose which source to listen to.


----------



## Satellite_6

Quote: 





espandon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am using another DAC with the amp.
> 
> So, basically i need two RCA's. One for my Dacmagic and one for my cd player. Any ideas?


 
   
  Unplug old source, plug in new source.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





espandon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am using another DAC with the amp.
> 
> So, basically i need two RCA's. One for my Dacmagic and one for my cd player. Any ideas?


 

 Feed the CD player's digital output into the DACmagic, and then hook the DACmagic into the EF2's RCA.


----------



## gosok

Hi there, this is my first post and I have a question:
   
  Would HiFiMan EF2 work fine with ortho headphones such as fostex T50RP?
  Thanks


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





gosok said:


> Hi there, this is my first post and I have a question:
> 
> Would HiFiMan EF2 work fine with ortho headphones such as fostex T50RP?
> Thanks


 


  Yes, it works just fine with the T50RP.


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





espandon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am using another DAC with the amp.
> 
> So, basically i need two RCA's. One for my Dacmagic and one for my cd player. Any ideas?


 


  Source Selector box (DIY or Radio shack has a cheap one). 
   
  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3964911
   
  This one looks even better:
  http://www.amazon.com/TC-716-Stereo-Selector-BLACK-VERSION/dp/B0001F347K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332993016&sr=8-2


----------



## Siming

I want to buy one recently. Has the imbalanced problem been solved?
What I found on China BBS said one year ago, 'the chinese version of EF2A changes to the ALPS Potentiometer, which slove the imbalanced problem of sound channe.'
   
Or whether I could replace it by myself?


----------



## Siming

Good News From Head-direct
   
   
*Dear XXX,*

Yes, the imbalanced problem has been solved and the one selling on ebay is same as the one in China.


 [size=10pt] - head-director[/size]


----------



## espandon

Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> Source Selector box (DIY or Radio shack has a cheap one).
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3964911
> 
> ...


 
   
  Indeed, that looks good. It might even do the job too. Cheers


----------



## CDPlayer

Well, that's good-bye to my EF2 - being superseded by DM+  It served me very well, must say!


----------



## Matt head 777

does the EF-2 have enough to power LCD-2's?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> does the EF-2 have enough to power LCD-2's?


 

 It should have enough power - it's been a while since I tried, so I'd have to set up the EF2 again to try this if nobody else can offer feedback on the combo soon.


----------



## Run

Will give this a try before purchasing a new amp/DAC. Ill let you guys know what happens when I receive the LCD-2's


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





run said:


> Will give this a try before purchasing a new amp/DAC. Ill let you guys know what happens when I receive the LCD-2's


 
   
  From my recollection, the EF2 has enough power for the LCD-2 but not the original HE-5 or HE-5 LE.


----------



## Run

Absolutely correct, this amp has plenty enough juice to power the LCD-2's.  Just received LCD-2's yesterday. EF2A is good for 32-300 ohms and the LCD-2's run at 60 ohms. Takes a little more juice to drive them my D2ks but stills sounds amazing being a low budget amp.


----------



## dmwhalen

5 for 5 on HiFiMan's customer service.  I had a faulty headphone in jack and they replaced it, no problems.
   
  Quick question, what's the downside of leaving this powered on all of the time?


----------



## liamstrain

Energy consumption. Unnecessary wear on the tubes (which do burn out over time).


----------



## SgtPepper

Holy gain batman! I had read that volumes were insane (especially with low impedance cans), but I can't even move the dial past the first notch with my Grados and HD 598!
   
  I was wondering if it would be better to lower the volume in Windows or Foobar. I've read that theoretically doing so would result in a weaker signal, but would lowering the volume of one versus the other result in less of a degradation in sound quality?
   
  I really love the sound of this amp with the Mullard CV4010's, lots of warmth and body.
   
  Thanks


----------



## liamstrain

I don't have any issues using software to lower the input signal. It may not be "ideal" but I was unable to identify a sound difference in my own testing.


----------



## SgtPepper

Thanks. I love this amp with my MS2i's and HD 598's, but I am wondering what headphones this amp is geared towards. The EF2A's hybrid design makes it a recommendation for low impedance cans like Grados, but its high gain is ill-suited for said headphones. This anomaly makes me wonder if the EF2A is ideal for anything, or if the lack of a gain switch is just a design flaw.
   
  Quote: 





> liamstrain said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have any issues using software to lower the input signal. It may not be "ideal" but I was unable to identify a sound difference in my own testing.


----------



## liamstrain

It works pretty well with low sensitivity low impedance headphones like the AKG K/Q701-K702 and some orthos (Fostex t50rp sounds nice through it).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sgtpepper said:


> Holy gain batman! I had read that volumes were insane (especially with low impedance cans), but I can't even move the dial past the first notch with my Grados and HD 598!
> 
> I was wondering if it would be better to lower the volume in Windows or Foobar. I've read that theoretically doing so would result in a weaker signal, but would lowering the volume of one versus the other result in less of a degradation in sound quality?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Strange, the 2009 model that I have can work equally well with custom IEM as it does with full size phones.


----------



## TK277

I've had the EF2A for about 2 months now and have been using it for 2 hours minimum per day, upwards to 9 hours at a time when working on design school projects.
   
  For the past 2 hours I was reading this thread and started testing songs out with and without the amp. So, my mid 2009 Macbook Pro + Sennheiser HD598s vs. MBP + 598s + EF2A with stock USB and tubes.
   
  I did this because Crazy*Carl's comments left me wondering how much difference I heard between the EF2A and built-in soundcard. I was frustrated because I am also very new to the audio world and at first didn't hear much of a difference. I don't hear a channel imbalance with the EF2A either (a common complaint), BUT my left ear has some slight damage. After comparing the same song about 5 times I do feel like the EF2A provides a _slightly _more warm tone, perhaps fuller quality to the music that I appreciate over the slight mechanical sound without it.
   
  The more I read, the more I see that adding amps, dacs, and new tubes into the mix are only marginal sound differences, and they develop our sound palette over time. If someone was asking me if they should spend $170 on the EF2A I would feel bad projecting some idea about a drastic / largely noticeable difference in SQ. Most of the people I work with appreciate details though (that's part of being a designer) so I guess it would depend on who I'm talking to. So far I've been disappointed by all of my friends who say they are fine with standard earbuds or skullcandies because they "don't care that much about the quality."
   
  Much to the chagrin of my bank account, today I ordered NOS matched 6AK5 Raytheon and GE 5-star tubes that are on their way and I look forward to trying them out. If I'm lucky I might nab a pair of used Grado SR60 classics to experiment with as well. I'm excited to dig further in audio with these small gains!


----------



## TK277

Received the NOS GE 5-star 6AK5 tubes today. After some warming up I've already noticed a nice subtle boost in lows and added clarity to the highs. The only negative thing I've noticed is that there's more static/noise in the quiet areas than the stock tubes. That, and I'm not sure how I'm going to get these tubes out...they're so tiny!
   
  [and if this is the wrong thread for tube rolling the EF2/A I apologize, let me know where that is if there is one!]


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





tk277 said:


> I've had the EF2A for about 2 months now and have been using it for 2 hours minimum per day, upwards to 9 hours at a time when working on design school projects.
> 
> For the past 2 hours I was reading this thread and started testing songs out with and without the amp. So, my mid 2009 Macbook Pro + Sennheiser HD598s vs. MBP + 598s + EF2A with stock USB and tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  To me the headphones are the most important part of the equation, then source and amp.  The conversion for electrical to mechanical or back, like with microphone, phono cartridge, or headphone/speaker is the hardest part to get right.  The HD598 are okay but not the most resolving headphones out there, and so improvements in source and amp will make a smaller difference than if you were using HD600, LCD-2, HE-500 or HD800.  
   
  But even then, the differences between a $100 amp and $200 amp won't be much greater than improving that to a $500 amp.  On the other hand, comparing the bottom rung amp to the top of the line amp will be more striking than comparing incremental improvements, but we're talking about much bigger price jumps.  The nice thing about the EF2 amp is that with mid-fi and even hi-fi headphones the amp won't let you down, much, vs more costly ones.
   
  Again, I think the EF2 amp is better than it's DAC, and that could be the weak link rather than the phones if your PC has a good sound card.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





tk277 said:


> Received the NOS GE 5-star 6AK5 tubes today. After some warming up I've already noticed a nice subtle boost in lows and added clarity to the highs. The only negative thing I've noticed is that there's more static/noise in the quiet areas than the stock tubes. That, and I'm not sure how I'm going to get these tubes out...they're so tiny!
> 
> [and if this is the wrong thread for tube rolling the EF2/A I apologize, let me know where that is if there is one!]


 
   
  When the tubes are cooled down you can wrap a rubber band around the top part of the tube to help you get a grip on the tubes and pull them out.


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> When the tubes are cooled down you can wrap a rubber band around the top part of the tube to help you get a grip on the tubes and pull them out.


 
   
  Yup. This works well. 
   
  You can also unscrew the plexi top, if needed.


----------



## TK277

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> To me the headphones are the most important part of the equation, then source and amp.  The conversion for electrical to mechanical or back, like with microphone, phono cartridge, or headphone/speaker is the hardest part to get right.  The HD598 are okay but not the most resolving headphones out there, and so improvements in source and amp will make a smaller difference than if you were using HD600, LCD-2, HE-500 or HD800.
> 
> But even then, the differences between a $100 amp and $200 amp won't be much greater than improving that to a $500 amp.  On the other hand, comparing the bottom rung amp to the top of the line amp will be more striking than comparing incremental improvements, but we're talking about much bigger price jumps.  The nice thing about the EF2 amp is that with mid-fi and even hi-fi headphones the amp won't let you down, much, vs more costly ones.
> 
> Again, I think the EF2 amp is better than it's DAC, and that could be the weak link rather than the phones if your PC has a good sound card.


 
  Makes sense, thanks. 
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> When the tubes are cooled down you can wrap a rubber band around the top part of the tube to help you get a grip on the tubes and pull them out.


 
  I'll give this a try when I need to get them out, thanks!


----------



## jorts21

Do the tubes get hot and glow red after use?


----------



## liamstrain

The tube heaters do glow a bit. But not as much as the big rectifiers and power tubes in OTL amps.


----------



## TK277

The rubber band didn't help me in this case, the tubes were too tiny. A proper sized allen wrench made quick work of the screws and acrylic plate though, so I removed them after that. Tubes are a bit of a pain to remove and replace, eh? They're in there good and tight. I get paranoid I'll break something!


----------



## mrAdrian

Anyone tried it with a FA011? Trying to find something to tame the highs of it.


----------



## William007

Is this amp powerfull enough to power the sennheiser hd650?


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Is this amp powerfull enough to power the sennheiser hd650?


 
   
  Yes. No problems whatsoever.


----------



## m3ta1head

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Is this amp powerfull enough to power the sennheiser hd650?


 
  Absolutely, it drives my HD600s surprisingly well-so well, in fact, that I haven't had the upgrade itch in quite a while


----------



## MegaMushroom

Alright... I think it might be time to start rolling my EF... Question is does it really matter if I buy a matched pair, or just buy a pair of singles?  
  Also... Voshkod.  Anyone here had any experience with those tubes?


----------



## Run

Mullard CV 4010, try em out


----------



## William007

Should i get the Schiit Asgard to drive these or just stick with my trusty ef 2A please reply quickly because i'm buying the Schiit Asgard and the Sennheiser HD 600, does the EF2A drive the HD600/650 to it's best performance?


----------



## mrAdrian

Why don't you try them with the EF2A first?


----------



## William007

A friend of me is selling hes asgard with the hd 600 for 450 euros, the hd 600 cost 310 in belgium and the asgard is +/-250 with shipping.. So i'm thinking of buying these together but i'll try the hd 600 with my ef2a first.


----------



## William007

i was all confused because of the video from thatsnazzyiphoneguy (tsig on forum) he said that the ef2a isn't powerfull enough to drive the HD600 ( this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20fiFq2GFpE )


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





william007 said:


> i was all confused because of the video from thatsnazzyiphoneguy (tsig on forum) he said that the ef2a isn't powerfull enough to drive the HD600 ( this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20fiFq2GFpE )


 
   
  I disagree with much of his review - but especially his "understanding" of impedance and power/sensitivity. The EF2A is just fine with the HD600. 
   
  Will is run them to their "best advantage" as you state - it is hard to say - I tend to not like my HD600s with ANY solid state amp (and that includes the Hifiman EF2A, since it is a hybrid) as much as I do with OTL tube amplifiers. But with that said - I think the EF2A is every bit as good sounding as the Asgard - and of course, has the built in USB dac.


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> I disagree with much of his review - but especially his "understanding" of impedance and power/sensitivity. The EF2A is just fine with the HD600.
> 
> Will is run them to their "best advantage" as you state - it is hard to say - I tend to not like my HD600s with ANY solid state amp (and that includes the Hifiman EF2A, since it is a hybrid) as much as I do with OTL tube amplifiers. But with that said - I think the EF2A is every bit as good sounding as the Asgard - and of course, has the built in USB dac.



What amp do you like then?


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





william007 said:


> What amp do you like then?


 
   
  Best bang for the buck for the HD-600/650 is the Bottlehead Crack, in my opinion. Even without the Speedball upgrade, it just destroys everything else anywhere near the price. 
   
  But I still keep my EF2A for my other office.


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> Best bang for the buck for the HD-600/650 is the Bottlehead Crack, in my opinion. Even without the Speedball upgrade, it just destroys everything else anywhere near the price.
> 
> But I still keep my EF2A for my other office.



Do you have any experience with the asgard? Because i'm thinking of selling my ef2a with vintige tubes and buying the asgard because of it's verry low/high impedance.. Or is the bottlehead a adgard killer? And is it hard to assemble?


----------



## liamstrain

It is not difficult to assemble, but does require soldering. The instructions are very complete. 
   
  Bottlehead Crack and Asgard should not really be compared - they are two different types of amps. The bottlehead is an OTL amp, so it really is best suited to headphones with higher output impedances. The Asgard is a SS amp, and will be a better pairing with orthos and dynamic headphones with low impedances - it is fine with higher impedances, but not where it really shines IMO. 
   
  I did borrow an asgard for a month. It was nice, but not so nice that I felt like I needed to own it in addition to the others. And for my high impedance cans, I do feel like the Crack is a much better performer. 
   
  Ultimately - if you have both, listen for yourself and decide before selling one or the other. I don't think you can make a wrong choice with them. I personally do not think that you will hear any significant improvement over the EF2a though - certainly, I did not.


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> It is not difficult to assemble, but does require soldering. The instructions are very complete.
> 
> Bottlehead Crack and Asgard should not really be compared - they are two different types of amps. The bottlehead is an OTL amp, so it really is best suited to headphones with higher output impedances. The Asgard is a SS amp, and will be a better pairing with orthos and dynamic headphones with low impedances - it is fine with higher impedances, but not where it really shines IMO.
> 
> ...



How much does the bottlehead crack cost? And if i buy the asgard would it be good with the 600? I'm thinking of buying the asgard and not selling the ef2a i had it for to long 
EDIT: what's your setup? Your primary setup?


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





william007 said:


> How much does the bottlehead crack cost?





> *http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=44&rn=442&action=show_detail = $280ish*





> And if i buy the asgard would it be good with the 600? I'm thinking of buying the asgard and not selling the ef2a i had it for to long





> *The asgard would be fine the 600. There is certainly nothing wrong with the pairing, I just preferred others. *





> EDIT: what's your setup? Your primary setup?





> *Macbook Pro > Fidelia + AHP and Redline Monitor Crossfeed > Yulong D100 DAC > Bottlehead Crack > Senn HD600 and Beyer 880/600 - I'm also going to be adding a Dynalo to the mix, for low impedance cans and ortho's.*


----------



## William007

What would it be with the speedball upgrade? And could you help me if i get stuck making it? I'm thinking of buyin tha asgard and the bottlehead and thinking of buying the WooAudio WA6 later


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





william007 said:


> What would it be with the speedball upgrade? And could you help me if i get stuck making it? I'm thinking of buyin tha asgard and the bottlehead and thinking of buying the WooAudio WA6 later


 
   
  Not sure off hand - the prices are on the website. *shrug* You can always add the Speedball later, as well. 
   
  There is an active thread here on the Crack that I do participate in, and would be happy to answer questions - you can always PM me as well. Bottlehead also has a very good forum and the amp designer participates from time to time both there and here to help.


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> Not sure off hand - the prices are on the website. *shrug* You can always add the Speedball later, as well.
> 
> There is an active thread here on the Crack that I do participate in, and would be happy to answer questions - you can always PM me as well. Bottlehead also has a very good forum and the amp designer participates from time to time both there and here to help.



Could you link me to that page?


----------



## liamstrain

http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=224


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=224



Does the kit come with everything?
And could you link me to the thread from the crack


----------



## liamstrain

Everything except a multimeter and a soldering iron + solder. Plus a 30+ page PDF manual on CD with photographs detailing the construction. 
   
  Here is the big thread on the Crack - there are many others that the sites search function will help you with. 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> Everything except a multimeter and a soldering iron + solder. Plus a 30+ page PDF manual on CD with photographs detailing the construction.
> 
> Here is the big thread on the Crack - there are many others that the sites search function will help you with.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl



Does it matter what kind of solder you use? And i read something about a 'higher end' power cord for it but does it make a diference using an higher end power cord, is the crack 130 v only? Because i live in belgium and we use 230v here..


----------



## liamstrain

1. You need to do a bit of reading yourself. On the bottlehead page, it clearly states:
*The stock kit is designed for 120VAC mains. You can order the kit with a 240VAC power transformer instead.*
   
  2. I do not think power cords make a big difference. Certainly there is very little evidence to support they can or do. I ordered a different one, because I wanted a right hand angle plug - no other reason. 
   
  3. No, regular 60/40 solder is just fine. 
  Anything further on this topic, should probably be continued in teh Crack discussion I linked you to, so as to get this one back on track with the EF2A discussion.


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> 1. You need to do a bit of reading yourself. On the bottlehead page, it clearly states:
> *The stock kit is designed for 120VAC mains. You can order the kit with a 240VAC power transformer instead.*
> 
> 2. I do not think power cords make a big difference. Certainly there is very little evidence to support they can or do. I ordered a different one, because I wanted a right hand angle plug - no other reason.
> ...



Okay thanks!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Should i get the Schiit Asgard to drive these or just stick with my trusty ef 2A please reply quickly because i'm buying the Schiit Asgard the Sennheiser HD 600, does the EF2A drive the HD600/650 to it's best performance?


 
   
  I really like the HD600 with the EF2 in this price range of amps, where it did a better job than my Qinpu A-3 and Travagans Red (about the same price).  I thought the EF2 was pretty close to the Cavalli CTH or a budget Millett Hybrid.  My Dark Voice 336i was maybe a little better than the EF2 with HD600, but the cost was twice as much.


----------



## William007

headphoneaddict said:


> I really like the HD600 with the EF2 in this price range of amps, where it did a better job than my Qinpu A-3 and Travagans Red (about the same price).  I thought the EF2 was pretty close to the Cavalli CTH or a budget Millett Hybrid.  My Dark Voice 336i was maybe a little better than the EF2 with HD600, but the cost was twice as much.



Ordered the Asgard today  i won't sell my ef2a but i bought the schiit because ( i think) that i can drive Orthodynamic headphones out of it. But what headphone would you buy, the neutral HD600 or the warmer,darker HD650?!


----------



## mrAdrian

I thought the Lyr was solely designed to drive ortho's XD Maybe if you beg me hard enough I can bring my HD580s to my gf's EF2A and let them mate... Ahh too wrong!


----------



## William007

mrAdrian said:
			
		

> .I thought the Lyr was solely designed to drive ortho's XD Maybe if you beg me hard enough I can bring my HD580s to my gf's EF2A and let them mate... Ahh too wrong!


----------



## William007

william007 said:


>



Quote fail


----------



## Joedotcom

I just finished reading this thread from its beginning. I wanted to say thanks to HeadphoneAddict and all the other posters for great info!! I am a proud EF2a owner and I am really enjoying it . The only mod I have done so far was to add some adhesive rubber feet under the normal feet to give it a more firm grip on my desk. 

As far as sensitivity, it is a bit overly-powerful for my Shure SE535 IEMs.. But I can get the volume up past the channel imbalance by reducing the volume on my MacBook a bit. 

I am planning on looking into some other tubes to try out (ether the Rays or the Mullards methinks) in the future. I am also hoping to get a decent pair of over the ear headphones to give this thing a serious workout.

I also have a Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 on the way, so I am comparing/combining all the options that the 11 has to offer with the EF2.

Thanks again for all the great info'


----------



## William007

mradrian said:


> I thought the Lyr was solely designed to drive ortho's XD Maybe if you beg me hard enough I can bring my HD580s to my gf's EF2A and let them mate... Ahh too wrong!



Please?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Ordered the Asgard today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  HD600 without a question.  I've owned the HD650 twice and sold them both times.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Please?


 
   
  Got work, not heading to her place for a few days, I'll see. You are in no rush, are you?


----------



## William007

mradrian said:


> Got work, not heading to her place for a few days, I'll see. You are in no rush, are you?



Nope it's just that i'll be gone tomorrow for a month maybe you could pm me the answer


----------



## William007

```

```



headphoneaddict said:


> HD600 without a question.  I've owned the HD650 twice and sold them both times.



I recived an email from the co founder from Schiit today saying
:'_Asgard is wonderful with the HE-400 and HE-500, and does a good job with LCD-2s. Above that, you'd need the Lyr.

Jason Stoddard 
Co-Founder_'
So you can't drive all ortho's out of the asgard


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Ordered the Asgard today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





william007 said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would think that you could drive many recent orthos, except HE-6, with the Asgard.  However, I'm sure it will perform it's best with the more efficient HE-500 and LCD-2, rather than the older HE-5 LE and original HE-5.  Those two older HiFiMan models really needed the punch of the EF5 amp, which does a very good job with it's 2W @ 32ohm, although the HE-6 will only go to moderate levels with the EF5.  So, if you have the older orthos or HE-6 I'd shoot for the Lyr.  I haven't heard the HE-4 and HE-400 yet.
   
  The EF2 amp is strong enough for the HE-500 and LCD-2, but it's a little underpowered with the HE-5 LE and HE-5.  Such that I never bothered to try the HE-6 with the EF2 (at least as far as I can remember).  Again, when you asked about the HD600/650, I prefer the HD600 with the EF2.  The EF2 does a very respectable job with the HD600, but even my WA6 feels underwhelming with the HD650, and the EF2 is no exception.  I only liked the HD650 on something as powerful as the Zana Deux.  I also thought the EF2 did a better job with HD800 than with HD650.


----------



## William007

headphoneaddict said:


> I would think that you could drive many recent orthos, except HE-6, with the Asgard.  However, I'm sure it will perform it's best with the more efficient HE-500 and LCD-2, rather than the older HE-5 LE and original HE-5.  Those two older HiFiMan models really needed the punch of the EF5 amp, which does a very good job with it's 2W @ 32ohm, although the HE-6 will only go to moderate levels with the EF5.  So, if you have the older orthos or HE-6 I'd shoot for the Lyr.  I haven't heard the HE-4 and HE-400 yet.
> 
> The EF2 amp is strong enough for the HE-500 and LCD-2, but it's a little underpowered with the HE-5 LE and HE-5.  Such that I never bothered to try the HE-6 with the EF2 (at least as far as I can remember).  Again, when you asked about the HD600/650, I prefer the HD600 with the EF2.  The EF2 does a very respectable job with the HD600, but even my WA6 feels underwhelming with the HD650, and the EF2 is no exception.  I only liked the HD650 on something as powerful as the Zana Deux.  I also thought the EF2 did a better job with HD800 than with HD650.



But do you think that the asgard will drive the lcd2 to it's full potential? So you say buy the hd600 for the ef2a? I will be receiving my asgard friday ( i hope ) because i'm in london 'till thursday so i can't pick it up at the post office. Then i'll borrow somebody's lcd2 and try it with the asgard, but i only have 2 days for it cuz i'm leaving on monday to Hungary for 1 month so it won't be able to test it properly


----------



## liamstrain

Full potential is such a tricky thing. 
   
  From a power standpoint - yes. No problem at all.
   
  But many people spend many thousands of dollars on amps, and still don't think they have reached the "full potential."
   
  For my own part - I have decided on looking for a "good enough for now, constrained by budget and effort"


----------



## William007

liamstrain said:


> Full potential is such a tricky thing.
> 
> From a power standpoint - yes. No problem at all.
> 
> ...



I'll do that as soon as i get my dream rig sony cdp101-->schiit asgard--> hd600


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





william007 said:


> But do you think that the asgard will drive the lcd2 to it's full potential? So you say buy the hd600 for the ef2a? I will be receiving my asgard friday ( i hope
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, considering that I think the DACmini has enough power for the LCD-2, the Asgard should be "enough" as well.  Having "enough" power (as in all my posts above) doesn't mean "as much as they will benefit from".  i.e. I think any of the orthos benefit from more power, but they can sound pretty good with less power than you'd expect.
   
  If you have reasonable expectations of max volume then the lower power amps like WA6, Asgard, DACmini can drive the orthos to very good sound.  If you want night club levels of sound and bass impact, then the 2W@32ohm amps will do a better job.  My Eddie Current ZDT (3W/32ohm) or EF5 (2W/32ohm) amps kick a lot harder with the orthos than my other amps.  These "low power amps" (WA6, DACmini, Asgard) can play to ear splitting levels with phones like HD600, Edition 9, D7000 and RS-1.
   
  There are better amps out there than the Lyr, so I can't say it will drive the LCD-2 to their full potential.  I'm not even sure my $2750 Eddie Current ZDT will do that.


----------



## William007

headphoneaddict said:


> Well, considering that I think the DACmini has enough power for the LCD-2, the Asgard should be "enough" as well.  Having "enough" power (as in all my posts above) doesn't mean "as much as they will benefit from".  i.e. I think any of the orthos benefit from more power, but they can sound pretty good with less power than you'd expect.
> 
> If you have reasonable expectations of max volume then the lower power amps like WA6, Asgard, DACmini can drive the orthos to very good sound.  If you want night club levels of sound and bass impact, then the 2W@32ohm amps will do a better job.  My Eddie Current ZDT (3W/32ohm) or EF5 (2W/32ohm) amps kick a lot harder with the orthos than my other amps.  These "low power amps" (WA6, DACmini, Asgard) can play to ear splitting levels with phones like HD600, Edition 9, D7000 and RS-1.
> 
> There are better amps out there than the Lyr, so I can't say it will drive the LCD-2 to their full potential.  I'm not even sure my $2750 Eddie Current ZDT will do that. :tongue_smile:



Okay, thanks i'll be able to test it in a few days! I'm gonna buy my hd600 in Harrods today and then i'll go back to belgium and test it


----------



## tigersinacage

How would this amp pair up with the Beyerdynamic DT880's? (250ohm)


----------



## mrAdrian

Hey well I don't know about the dt880s, but regarding to questions of this amp/hd600,

The provides enough volume and the tonal balance is great, bit I did have some nos tubes that I have already forgotten what they were rolled in. what it lacks is the dynamics and soundstage. It is those more technical points that gives the ef2's ptice tag away imo.


----------



## 00birdy

Does anyone know how this would compare to the Indeed G3 or MK2 ebay amps?
  
   
  Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> How would this amp pair up with the Beyerdynamic DT880's? (250ohm)


 

 Ditto this question


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Wish I could help you guys, but we'll need to see who has experience with those.


----------



## lithium1085

Did anyone finally get a chance to measure the EF2A's output impedance? I apologize if this has already been answered but I could not find anything in a search of the thread. Thanks


----------



## PenDragon

Reviving an old gem of a thread. One of my old trusty Mullard tubes finally gave up recently, having been used pretty much 24/7 for I don't know how many years.
 Today these little beauties arrived. Figured I'd give Raytheon a go this time around, and I must say so far they're sounding great. Only expecting them to kick more ass as time passes.


----------



## lithium1085

pendragon said:


> Reviving an old gem of a thread. One of my old trusty Mullard tubes finally gave up recently, having been used pretty much 24/7 for I don't know how many years.
> Today these little beauties arrived. Figured I'd give Raytheon a go this time around, and I must say so far they're sounding great. Only expecting them to kick more ass as time passes.


 
 The packaging looks absolutely great....What was your source for the tubes and their cost? I have heard that the raytheons are a touch expensive


----------



## PenDragon

lithium1085 said:


> The packaging looks absolutely great....What was your source for the tubes and their cost? I have heard that the raytheons are a touch expensive


 
 Aye, and the exterior packaging was great as well. Also didn't take that long to get here at all (from U.S. to Sweden). I believe I payed about $44 including shipping, and I bought them from this excellent eBay vendor http://www.ebay.com/usr/vivatubescom


----------



## lithium1085

pendragon said:


> Aye, and the exterior packaging was great as well. Also didn't take that long to get here at all (from U.S. to Sweden). I believe I payed about $44 including shipping, and I bought them from this excellent eBay vendor http://www.ebay.com/usr/vivatubescom


 
 I have to buy some soon...thanks for the tip


----------



## PenDragon

lithium1085 said:


> I have to buy some soon...thanks for the tip


 
 No worries mate. I highly recommend them. I loved my Mullards, but the Raytheons actually seem to be a notch above them.


----------



## countolaf

Would this amp be able to drive say HE-400 effortlessly? I thought this was made He-400 but realized this was created way earlier than HE-400.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

countolaf said:


> Would this amp be able to drive say HE-400 effortlessly? I thought this was made He-400 but realized this was created way earlier than HE-400.


 
  
 I don't have HE-400 (I have all the others).  It's under-powered for my original HE-5, but better with my HE-5LE and HE-500.  But I can't try to guess about the HE-400. It's fine with HE-500 and HD600 too, although I haven't tried that combo in a while.
  
 For inefficient headphones I prefer the EF5 amp, but with something like the HD800 or Grado HF-2 the EF2 amp will surprise you. It's my top recommendation for a budget/cheap DAC/amp for HD800 while someone recovers from Sennheiser sticker shock and doesn't have the cash for a HD800 quality DAC/amp yet.


----------



## cddc

It's a great review. I much appreciate it!
  
 With little knowledge on amps/dacs, I think it's better to start with something not so expensive. So I am considering buying a Hifiman  EF-2A for my HD650. 
  
 Do you guys think it will be a good staring point? Will EF-2A be a good fit for my HD650? Or do you have other rigs to recommend?
  
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## MegaMushroom

I guess it's time to bring this thread back to life for a bit.  I'm looking for a new set of tubes to replace my stock 6J1's.  I've had it in the amp since the very beginning when I bought it back in mid 2011.  I think I finally am ready to take the plunge, and nab a new set, and see where this can take me.  
  
 I'm wondering, but would the EL84 Mullard Reissue play nice with this amp?  Reason I ask is I managed to find a matched pair on Amazon for a decent enough price.
  
 Link to product in case I missed something...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

megamushroom said:


> I guess it's time to bring this thread back to life for a bit.  I'm looking for a new set of tubes to replace my stock 6J1's.  I've had it in the amp since the very beginning when I bought it back in mid 2011.  I think I finally am ready to take the plunge, and nab a new set, and see where this can take me.
> 
> I'm wondering, but would the EL84 Mullard Reissue play nice with this amp?  Reason I ask is I managed to find a matched pair on Amazon for a decent enough price.
> 
> Link to product in case I missed something...


 

 Wish I could help but I am not an expert on whether these are 100% compatible or equivalent to what comes with the amp.


----------



## saguro

*Another thread revival:*
  
 I recently purchased the 400i and EF2a combo from HiFiMan as an office set-up and after several weeks of listening, I can say that this combo is a marked improvement from my unamped Shure SE425 or my Bose QC15.  I sometimes notice that the sub-bass breaks up (muddies?) in tracks with a lot of sub-bass with the 400i.  I ordered some  *Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV* "Rocket" tubes from Russia and hope that they will help.  I've read this entire thread and used the tube rolling guide for the LD (mentioned early in the thread) to find out what tubes people rated highest.  I saw a few others on the thread ask about these tubes without much luck in getting a response.  Perhaps there's more experience now?  
  
 Being that I don't have another amp to compare to, am I getting the the 'full' 400i experience with the combo I purchased, or could I expect a significant increase in SQ with a better DAC/Amp?


----------



## clusterm

Folks,  can you please straighten out my confusion?  I keep hearing mixed information regarding sending audio via RCA vs DAC ports on this amp.
 I was going to use the Schiit Modi-2 and connect it with good rca cables to EF-2A.   Is this ideal setup, as the 16bit dac on ef2a is a bit meh.
  
 So,  use the external DAC and connect with RCA cables?
 or forget about it, and use the dac provided?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## laurandy

This is my first post.  I am going from a Nuforce Icon HDP to a HiFiman EF2A.  The Nuforce was pretty nice I have to say.  I am using it on my Asus I7 laptop with Sony MDR-V6 headphone (love these and I have listened andowned quite a few different ones).
  
 My impressions:  I bought the HiFiman off Ebay and it came with Sung Sol 1945 6AK5s tubes.  Of course I bought a few sets of tubes to roll just for fun.  These particular Sung Sols sounded pretty good.  But not better than the HDP.  I then popped in a set of Sung Sol JAN 6AJ5 1942 NOS with clear top and side getter.  They were not even burned in, and I was blown away by the sound.  Huge sound stage and nice highs and lows.  Really nice.  
  
 I next tried some Russian Voshkod 6zhip-ev.  They were ok at best.  I know I need to burn these in for 100+ hours ... which I did not.  I have some Mullards on the way to try as well.
  
 Bottom line the EF2 with the old clear top Sung Sols sounds awesome.  I highly reccomend them!
  
 Thanks,
 Andy


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Glad to see this little amp still getting some love.  I may not use mine much anymore, but I still have it after 6 years and don't plan to ever sell it.


----------



## pmronline

laurandy said:


> This is my first post.  I am going from a Nuforce Icon HDP to a HiFiman EF2A.  The Nuforce was pretty nice I have to say.  I am using it on my Asus I7 laptop with Sony MDR-V6 headphone (love these and I have listened andowned quite a few different ones).
> 
> My impressions:  I bought the HiFiman off Ebay and it came with Sung Sol 1945 6AK5s tubes.  Of course I bought a few sets of tubes to roll just for fun.  These particular Sung Sols sounded pretty good.  But not better than the HDP.  I then popped in a set of Sung Sol JAN 6AJ5 1942 NOS with clear top and side getter.  They were not even burned in, and I was blown away by the sound.  Huge sound stage and nice highs and lows.  Really nice.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hope you burned your voshkod tubes.  how does it compare vs your tung sol clear tops?


----------



## laurandy

The Tung Sol clear tops def sounded the best... followed by the RCAs and Mullards.


----------

