# 5.1 Headphone experience *Foobar configuration for all stereo music files*



## Graphicism

*WHAT IS THIS?*

 This is a Foobar configuration that converts the traditional stereo image into a three-dimensional space utilizing Dolby Headphone. A virtual surround sound is created from the stereo recording, split into 5 channels and delivered from a seemingly directional source, or virtual speaker positioned around your head.

 Traditional headphones replicate a stereo image; right and left channel and position you in the middle, some may find this fatiguing and flat. This configuration keeps the left and right channels intact and introduces a center and 2 more at the rear for a true 5 channel multi directional sound.








*YOU WILL NEED:*

Foobar
AC3 decoder
DTS decoder _(Now default with latest Foobar)_
Dolby Headphone Wrapper
DOLBYHPH.DLL
Channel Mixer

*SETUP:*

 • Close foobar
 • Download the _Dolby Headphone Wrapper_ for foobar, place the dll in the components folder.
 • Download _dolbyhph.dll_ and for convenience place this in the same components folder.
 • Download _Channel Mixer_ for foobar and place the dll in the components folder.
 • Start foobar
 • Move _Dolby Headphone_ into Active DSPs and configure it to use _dolbyhph.dll_ by linking to its location, leave the settings on DH1 with amplification at 100%.
 • Move _Channel Mixer_ into Active DSPs and configure it to use the following settings:
 - General: Output channels: 6 / LFE should be unticked / Stereoimage width should be set at 1.00
 - Upmix: Center: 1.00 / (Rear) Volume: 2.00 / - Everything else should be set to 0.00
 - Profiles: Save profile
 • *Active DSPs should have Dolby Headphone at the bottom and Channel Mixer second to bottom for the desired sound.** !important*






 _(note: you won't see DTS decoder as it is now default with foobar)_






*TEST:*

 • Close foobar
 • Download the _AC3 decoder_ for foobar, place the dll in the components folder.
• Download the _DTS decoder_ for foobar, place the dll in the components folder.
 • Start foobar
• Move _DTS decoder_ into Active DSPs above _Dolby Headphone_ and _Channel Mixer_.
 • Download _5.1 Surround Test_ File from lynnemusic.com
 • Configure _Channel Mixer_ to use only LR and RR, untick L, C, R
 • Play the 5.1 Surround AC3 file, you should only hear the rear channels.
 • If the test was successful turn on L, C, R, LR, RR and you're all set!






 If you would like to run further tests yourself load up any good recording; Jack Johnson's _'All At Once'_ on his latest album _'Sleep Through The Static'_ if setup correctly when the forward channels are turned off Jacks voice will be completely removed from the recording. Play around with your own music, you will see this is replete throughout most stereophonic recordings. This clear separation will allow for much better directional positioning allowing details to shine. Half way through a song remove both Dolby Headphone and Channel Mixer and hear the instant difference; in comparison it will sound flat and lifeless.

*Please share your experience!*
   
  - For additional reading take a look at 'The quest for soundstage', this was my first venture into binaural audio which led to this configuration.


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## dor1an

Can i use this method while gaming?


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## El_Doug

FASCINATING - i will hopefully try this out sometime this weekend


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## Edwood

Thanks for posting the step by step guide. 

 It doesn't make it sound like there are real speakers out in space around you, but it certainly increased the size of the "headstage". Making it sound like it's around my head. The localization is noticeable, but nowhere near the clarity and precision of excellent speakers or my Smyth Realiser.

 It's similar in performance to Astound sound DSP I tried before (except, that Astound sound does more of a "sphere" of sound rather than traditional 5.1 set up).

 -Ed


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dor1an* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can i use this method while gaming?_

 

Unless Foobar has a plug in to decode and encode audio streams from other apps like games, I'd say no.


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for posting the step by step guide. 

 It doesn't make it sound like there are real speakers out in space around you, but it certainly increased the size of the "headstage". Making it sound like it's around my head. The localization is noticeable, but nowhere near the clarity and precision of excellent speakers or my Smyth Realiser.

 It's similar in performance to Astound sound DSP I tried before (except, that Astound sound does more of a "sphere" of sound rather than traditional 5.1 set up).

 -Ed_

 

Perhaps not but I think it goes a long way in bridging the gap from headphones to speakers, at least for those of us that can't invest $3,000 in the SmythSVS Realiser. With the increased "headstage" and added clarity from 5 separate channels I find that if I turn it off my previous setup sounds uninvolving and lifeless, at least in comparison.

 I'm a sucker for good soundstage, perhaps I'd be the perfect candidate for the Smyth Realiser _(the more I read about it the more I want one)_ but for now this will suffice.

 Thanks for giving it a listen!


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## 12thgear

Wow, this is great info. I'll definitely try this out next time I boot into Windows. 

 For now I've just been using an outboard A40 Mixamp, which is great for games, ok for movies. I haven't tried it with music, but I'm not expecting much in that regard. 

 The Smyth Realiser and and Beyerdynamic Headzone both seem really cool, but man, are they expensive.


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## Shadorne

This is a novel idea


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## skeptic

I'm interested in this as well - although I have bee reading up primarily on options for home theater use (and for PS3 gaming) thus far.

 Apparently mid-level Marantz and Yamaha receivers, on up, support fairly well regarded headphone 5.1 processing/simulators (dolby headphone and silent cinema, respectively).


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## RedSky0

Couldn't get it to work unless I put Dolby bottom and Channel Mixer second to bottom instead, guessing that's what you meant. But yeah, sounds very nice cheers for the guide.


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couldn't get it to work unless I put Dolby bottom and Channel Mixer second to bottom instead, guessing that's what you meant. But yeah, sounds very nice cheers for the guide._

 

You're absolutely right, sounds like you've got it working just perfectly! Dolby should indeed be at the bottom; I'll go ahead and correct that in my guide.


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're absolutely right, sounds like you've got it working just perfectly! Dolby should indeed be at the bottom; I'll go ahead and correct that in my guide.




_

 

That works much better now. Quite impressive. Definitely puts the sound out farther out, like speakers. But the "virtual speakers" and imaging are not nearly as focused and as precise as my AIX Records Profile with my Realiser, but this Dolby Headphone plug in works great with Foobar. 
 Compared some AC3 tracks I have from iTrax.com. The overall sound quality is definitely reduced when played through the Foobar Dolby Headphone set up, than compared to SPDIF pass through to my External PreAmp Processor (processing Dolby Digital then outputting analog 5.1 to my Realiser)

 But considering this solution is free, it has the best "bang for the buck" for listening to certain AC3 audio files. I couldn't get it to work with DTS audio tracks (seems to be problematic with Foobar). 
 Now, if it could only work with decoding and playing audio streams from Video sources like DVD videos, BluRay Video, and various formats like h.264, DiVX, XVID, etc. 

 -Ed


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## RedSky0

Bump for good topic.

 Decided I'm gonna stick with this for normal listening since it works so well. Compared this with standard Dolby headphone and there's no comparison, pure Dolby sounds very distant whereas this only slightly reduces detail, the surround effect is well worth it though.


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## adrift

I had problems with this using WASAPI. Not sure if it had something to do with something I didn't think to check or what not, but it does sound like its working fine with ASIO. Oh, by the way, the difference between this and the normal Dolby Headphone wrapper is amazing. Great job and thanks!

 Edit: Ok after a bit more listening with songs mixed in shuffle mode I'm constantly surprised with the vividness of some of these tracks now. One thing I notice though is that the music never really sounds directly in front of me. Mostly to the side and back. I noticed you had similar concerns in earlier experiments. This doesn't detract from the enjoyment of listening to the music at all. Just thought I'd share my observation is all.


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## Graphicism

I had this working with WASAPI in vista however since upgrading to win 7 I haven't got WASAPI to work as yet, giving me some incompatibility issues...

 Yes the different between this and standalone Dolby Headphone is quite vast, if you aren't getting enough volume from the center channel simply turn it up; I now have mine on 1.25 although I'm sure it differs between headphones. As mentioned in my test above; try turning off the front channels to understand what you are hearing from the rear then introduce and tweak the forward channels as necessary.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had this working with WASAPI in vista however since upgrading to win 7 I haven't got WASAPI to work as yet, giving me some incompatibility issues...

 Yes the different between this and standalone Dolby Headphone is quite vast, if you aren't getting enough volume from the center channel simply turn it up; I now have mine on 1.25 although I'm sure it differs between headphones. As mentioned in my test above; try turning off the front channels to understand what you are hearing from the rear then introduce and tweak the forward channels as necessary._

 

Yeah, I'm using Windows 7 which was running fine with WASAPI before adding dolbyhph.dll, Channel Mixer, and AC3 Decoder (i'm thinking maybe it has something to do with the Channel Mixer, but not certain). I'll try turning up the center channel. Thanks again, this sound great!


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## adrift

Set this up on my computer at work also with Win 7 which is actually working great. I have it set to 16 bit data output using USB out to an iBasso D10, where as at home with Win 7 I usually use 24 bit data output with optical out to the D10.

 Other than that those are the only major differences that I can think of off the bat. Oh well, hopefully someone can come along and point out a fix. In the meantime I don't mind using ASIO at home.

 By the way, one other thing I noticed about your DH process is that I don't have to turn up the volume nearly as loud as before. Not sure if that's everyone's experience but the detail I was straining to hear at higher volumes is now right in my ear. 

 Every now and then in this hobby I hear something that takes the music to a whole new level and blows my mind a little bit. This is one of those times. I really think this thread should be getting a lot more attention than its gotten so far.


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## RedSky0

Totally agree, I can't even go back to listening in stock stereo, it just sounds so boxed in!


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## Graphicism

Your data output should be 16-bit for stereophonic recordings, there are a few threads around here that will explain all that.

 Yeah after my little rant on soundstage being affected more by software than the hardware/headphones themselves I am extremely pleased with the setup and also cannot go back to stock stereo. No doubt a lot of peeps will just dismiss this as coloring the music before even trying it, I for one am against EQing so I can see where they're coming from. I'm sure as more people find and use this particular setup it will catch on, we'll see!


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## spacemanspliff

X-Fi has this option for gaming. You can select DTS cinema or music to convert stereo sources to surround. Just fyi. it works for gaming.


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spacemanspliff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X-Fi has this option for gaming. You can select DTS cinema or music to convert stereo sources to surround. Just fyi. it works for gaming._

 

I've heard that and it's completely different, very chamber like... at least I think so. What I like about this is the ability to play any stereophonic audio track almost as if it were a 5.1 recording from a 5.1 surround sound setup. While I prefer this for electronic music it works just as well with classical and acoustic, you can practically turn off instruments and just listen to the signing and vice versa.


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## spacemanspliff

Just for gaming mate. Not saying it should be used for music b/c it does sound weird for that.

 I am going to try this for music asap btw. Need some sq improvement.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your data output should be 16-bit for stereophonic recordings, there are a few threads around here that will explain all that._

 

Oh Ok. I'll have to do a search. Thanks.

  Quote:


 Yeah after my little rant on soundstage being affected more by software than the hardware/headphones themselves I am extremely pleased with the setup and also cannot go back to stock stereo. No doubt a lot of peeps will just dismiss this as coloring the music before even trying it, I for one am against EQing so I can see where they're coming from. I'm sure as more people find and use this particular setup it will catch on, we'll see! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Yeah true. Hopefully people are open-minded enough to give it a shot at least.


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## adrift

You know, something else wonderful about this setup is listening to early stereo albums. The Beatles remastered stereo albums with the instruments on one side and vocals on the other can be sort of irritating to listen to through headphones. The DH combo described here makes for a far more natural listening experience. Sorry for raving, but I'm really happy with how this sounds.


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## fenixdown110

Holy crap! I just tried this and it's amazing! I can't ever go back to normal.


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## wiisus

Doesn't this only add effect for .ac3 files?


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, something else wonderful about this setup is listening to early stereo albums. The Beatles remastered stereo albums with the instruments on one side and vocals on the other can be sort of irritating to listen to through headphones. The DH combo described here makes for a far more natural listening experience. Sorry for raving, but I'm really happy with how this sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know exactly what you mean, I've been going through a lot of my older music all over again and I'm stoked with the sound, rave away!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy crap! I just tried this and it's amazing! I can't ever go back to normal._

 






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wiisus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't this only add effect for .ac3 files?_

 

No it works for stereophonic files, it splits the channel and creates a 5 speaker presence.


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## wiisus

Holy balls. This is nuts. I seriously can't believe how amazing this is. I'm not a huge fan of foobar, though...but I will only use it now, just because of this. Maybe skinning foobar might help me like it more.


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wiisus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy balls. This is nuts. I seriously can't believe how amazing this is. I'm not a huge fan of foobar, though...but I will only use it now, just because of this. Maybe skinning foobar might help me like it more._

 

Another one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey foobar is awesome, very customizable... here's mine:
_And many others here: Foobar 2000 Screenshot Thread_


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## wiisus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey foobar is awesome, very customizable... here's mine:
And many others here: Foobar 2000 Screenshot Thread
_

 

Oh, wow. There are some pretty cool skins. I might try to find some plugins and crap, than. 

 And I highly recommend this to everyone! Especially if you listen to very layered music like Animal Collective. I recommend Animal Collective to anyone who does this! It's truly amazing.


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## fenixdown110

We need to give you an award or something. This is the most epic thing this year and probably will be for a very long time.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We need to give you an award or something. This is the most epic thing this year and probably will be for a very long time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

haha. I'm still kind of surprised that this thread isn't getting the attention it deserves.


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## fenixdown110

Well it seems not a lot of people like to use Foobar, but after hearing and experiencing this, it's kind of hard to go back. I think it's the initial switch to a new player since too many are already using something else like the crappy iTunes. I guess it's time to sell my iPod and get a drag and drop Cowon.


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## Romulus1

That's really cool. I just set it up and it sounds good.

 I actually found this because I was looking for a way to do 5.1 for video files. Now that I have 5.1 music I know that I want 5.1 video. Does anyone have a link to some info on how to make that happen?
 _______________

 Also, I can't get this to work with foobar -> ASIO -> Keces DA-151. I just set up the ASIO the other day so I'm not that familiar with it yet. When I look at the ASIO4All dialogue box it says that the status is:

 "unavailavble" 

 "-> In use by another application?"
 " 'MS GS wavetable synth' enabled?"

 However, there is nothing else that could be using it and it worked before. Is there something that I can set to make this work? I believe that someone else in the thread said that they had it working with ASIO.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it seems not a lot of people like to use Foobar, but after hearing and experiencing this, it's kind of hard to go back. I think it's the initial switch to a new player since too many are already using something else like the crappy iTunes. I guess it's time to sell my iPod and get a drag and drop Cowon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well to be honest, I got into Foobar kicking and screaming. Its extremely complicated to setup initially. At least, I found it to be. And I still, daily, experience wacky behavior coming from it, whether it be album art not loading correctly or _Unrecoverable playback errors_. When it works (and that's most of the time), its amazing. When it doesn't, it makes me want to pull my hair out.


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## fenixdown110

It has some compatibility problems on my end as well. I can't control the playback remotely from my keyboard media control buttons like I can do with iTunes. And that extremely irks me. I have to actually have the window open to select songs. And another gripe is the inability to sort the songs and albums correctly. OMG that drove me crazy for and hour until I found a somewhat decent sorting order that I could live with.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romulus1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's really cool. I just set it up and it sounds good.

 I actually found this because I was looking for a way to do 5.1 for video files. Now that I have 5.1 music I know that I want 5.1 video. Does anyone have a link to some info on how to make that happen?_

 

Yep. You can't use Foobar to do this, but I'm using Media Player Classic (CCCP edition) and this wonderful guide:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/gu...player-405417/

  Quote:


 Also, I can't get this to work with foobar -> ASIO -> Keces DA-151. I just set up the ASIO the other day so I'm not that familiar with it yet. When I look at the ASIO4All dialogue box it says that the status is:

 "unavailavble" 

 "-> In use by another application?"
 " 'MS GS wavetable synth' enabled?"

 However, there is nothing else that could be using it and it worked before. Is there something that I can set to make this work? I believe that someone else in the thread said that they had it working with ASIO. 
 

Yeah, I've used it with ASIO at work. I've seen errors like that before. Maybe not that exact one, but something like it. I believe in my case it had something to do with leaving something plugged into one of the audio outs. I can't remember the details though. Sorry.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has some compatibility problems on my end as well. I can't control the playback remotely from my keyboard media control buttons like I can do with iTunes. And that extremely irks me. I have to actually have the window open to select songs. And another gripe is the inability to sort the songs and albums correctly. OMG that drove me crazy for and hour until I found a somewhat decent sorting order that I could live with._

 

Yeah album sorting is a royal pain in the butt. I still haven't figured out how to do that properly. I'm certain there's a way, or maybe even a component that will help, but the level of madness I need to go through just to play an mp3 I download off an artist's webpage, and then go back to my previous playlist when done is insane. I now use File > Add Folder anytime I want to play something instead of double clicking on anything. I just _know_ there's an easier way.


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## Romulus1

Thanks for the info.

 I actually just figured out how to fix my ASIO . I think that my problem was with my setup of it earlier, not with this. Anyway, it all works a treat now.
 ____________________

  Quote:


 When it doesn't, it makes me want to pull my hair out. 
 

So true. If people on here hadn't pushed me to use it I never would have stuck with it. Stuff like this makes me glad that I did though.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romulus1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info.

 I actually just figured out how to fix my ASIO . I think that my problem was with my setup of it earlier, not with this. Anyway, it all works a treat now._

 

Oh good.

  Quote:


 So true. If people on here hadn't pushed me to use it I never would have stuck with it. Stuff like this makes me glad that I did though. 
 

Absolutely!


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## fenixdown110

Wow. Thanks for the Dolby MPC-HC link. I use that to watch movies, so now I can attempt to tweak this too.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow. Thanks for the Dolby MPC-HC link. I use that to watch movies, so now I can attempt to tweak this too._

 

Yep. No problem. Sounds great too.


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## MrKazador

THX Trailers - Demo World

 Lots of trailers here with 5.1 audio. You can demux the audio from the .vob using dgindex and listen to the ac3/dts with foobar2000. You can watch the .vob themselves but you need to setup your media player to use Dolby Headphone.


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## eccdbb

On the Channel Mixer,
 if you have a 2ch (or less than 6ch) track, it turns it into a 6ch track.
 if you have a 6ch track, no change to the individual channel data.

 Are those statements correct?

 Also, does anyone find that using the Dolby Headphone DSP causes a relative volume decrease when you leave Amplificaition at 100%?


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eccdbb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the Channel Mixer,
 if you have a 2ch (or less than 6ch) track, it turns it into a 6ch track.
 if you have a 6ch track, no change to the individual channel data.

 Are those statements correct?_

 

Yes it will convert a sterophonic (2 ch) track into 5ch, LFE is redundant.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eccdbb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, does anyone find that using the Dolby Headphone DSP causes a relative volume decrease when you leave Amplificaition at 100%?_

 

If anything once setup right there will be an increase in volume.
 Do it in this specific order:


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## revolink24

I'm getting a decrease as well. It's from the channel mixer though.


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## eccdbb

Yea, I have it in that order. However, compared to no before, I need to set the Dolby Headphone amplification at ~120% to get the same volume.

 Another separate thing- does anyone experience distortion? I only hear it in certain parts of some songs, and then other songs are fine.


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## adrift

About the volume. I should clarify a statement I made earlier. With my Grados it seemed like I experienced an increase in volume, but more likely what I was experiencing was better detail rather than actual volume. With my darker sounding Senns I do perceive what seems like a decrease in volume, but it seems to be related to separation in channels. eccdbb, you mention something about "DH amplification". Is that an actual setting in the DH component? I'm typing on my Macbook so I can't see it now. I'll have to check it out.

 Edit: Nevermind eccdbb, I see what you're talking about now.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THX Trailers - Demo World

 Lots of trailers here with 5.1 audio. You can demux the audio from the .vob using dgindex and listen to the ac3/dts with foobar2000. You can watch the .vob themselves but you need to setup your media player to use Dolby Headphone._

 

Don't happen to have an illustrated guide for that do you


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## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eccdbb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, I have it in that order. However, compared to no before, I need to set the Dolby Headphone amplification at ~120% to get the same volume.

 Another separate thing- does anyone experience distortion? I only hear it in certain parts of some songs, and then other songs are fine._

 

120% is unnatural, +DB will always create distortion... turn it up from the source.


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## eccdbb

Using mmg.exe (mkv merging tool) also works. Just drag the vob in, check only the audio track, and save as *.ac3

 100% seems to solve the problem. Thank you. For others/reference, 200% sounds like dumping sand in the music.


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## jjsoviet

You, sir, are my hero.


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## fenixdown110

This is the single best thing to happen to me other than buying my HD-650's. LOL And it's free to boot.


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## eccdbb

Let's talk about how applicable this method is. I find that for synthesized music like hardcore and trance, the sound becomes farther and less detailed/charaterized. It also can have too much of a echo at times, and sometimes sounds EQ'd. Perhaps this is because the music has been created to suit headphones better so further processing is overdoing it? or maybe the immediacy is lost? Sometimes, the method makes the sound stuffy and clogged. Maybe squeezed? I feel that most types of sounds loose their character and get changed.

 Some tracks sound bad with this method, some sound better, and then there are the neutrals. The better sounding ones sound like you're in a room.

 Vocal/acoustic- I think this method helps a lot. However, the singer's voice can loose thickness. Cymbals loose their lower end and tend to sound tinny. Diana Krall - Let It Snow sounds really nice with this. Sounds like you're listening from a seat in the audience rather than in the middle of the stage. Seems like jazz and orchestral stuff like this method a lot too.

 In general, I think this method is picky on application. It improves the presentation of some tracks, but can mess others.


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## jjsoviet

I agree that some tracks don't work well with this setting, but the overall presentation is great. Kudos to your efforts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, my Foobar is outdated and it won't accept the latest ASIO plugin. Any chance you guys have an older version? Updating mine would be a pain, as the interface I like only uses the older versions of Foobar.


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## Graphicism

Couple things to point out... 

 Before I posted this setup I had it setup in foobar for a few days while I played with the settings and listened to different genres of music. The simply act of listening to this straight for a couple days and then switching it off makes you realize how seemingly flat music is without, and you question yourself; I used to listen to music flat like this all the time?

 Second; bad recordings will sound worse, the channel is divided and the clipping will become more noticeable. I have found electronic music in general improves tenfold, with recordings like Kraftwerk remastered blowing me away, almost as if it were made for this. Whereas some recordings, perhaps pre-EQ'd can sound stretched and distort in some areas, however this can easily be explained after looking at the _peakmeter spectrum_ and seeing a _peak max_ of _0.01 dB_ and higher.

 If you want to use this on a regular bases you'll have to get rid of your MP3s and go lossless.


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## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple things to point out... 

 Before I posted this setup I had it setup in foobar for a few days while I played with the settings and listened to different genres of music. The simply act of listening to this straight for a couple days and then switching it off makes you realize how seemingly flat music is without, and you question yourself; I used to listen to music flat like this all the time?

 Second; bad recordings will sound worse, the channel is divided and the clipping will become more noticeable. I have found electronic music in general improves tenfold, with recordings like Kraftwerk remastered blowing me away, almost as if it were made for this. Whereas some recordings, perhaps pre-EQ'd can sound stretched and distort in some areas, however this can easily be explained after looking at the peakmeter spectrum and seeing a peak max of 0.01 dB and higher.

 If you want to use this on a regular bases you'll have to get rid of your MP3s and go lossless._

 

Yep, sounds very similar to my own experience so far. Poorly recorded or ripped albums really stand out with this turned on... more so than before that is. Electronic music sounds great though. Course that may be due to artist/styles of electronic music I'm listening to. I'm going to have to grab those Krafwerk remastered albums!


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## eccdbb

How does a peak meter work?
 According to wikipedia, "As a rule, recording levels should be set so that they do not exceed the red area beyond 0 VU or only rarely. If set too high, the sound quality and frequency response is typically poorer at high recording levels, and clipping effects can be especially severe for a digital recording system. If the level is set too low, noise levels will be high relative the the main sound being recorded." This is for a VU meter. What's the difference between a VU meter and peak meter?

 When the two small blocks on the right of the peak meter appear, what does it signify? It seems that lowering the DH amp to ~70% prevents the little blocks from appearing for most tracks.

 Putting Advanced Limiter under DH as a DSP also prevents the blocks from appearing. What is it doing? From Techspot: "This DSP uses read-ahead on the source and scales down the audio signal when it detects clipping will occur resulting in minimal, if any, distortion during playback." Does this mean the volume is being affected? Like dynamics being squished?


----------



## Rossinator

Wow, this is really cool! It works very nicely. Just yesterday I tried another method/program that used the Dolby Headhone dlls but it didn't work nearly as good as this; this is great. Thanks a lot for this.

 I found that with the settings you suggested the Center channel was too loud on my headphones and was kind of drowning out all the other channels, so I turned Center down to 0.65.


----------



## ap-thy

Thanks for the guide, it works great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got a few questions though..

 x-fi extreme music - Audio Creation Mode
 Monster Beats Studio Headphones

 On my x-fi does it matter if i have my speaker selection on 5.1 or Headphones?

 Also when im using KS in foobar my x-fi says its only using FL/FR channels, when im using ASIO it says its using FL/FR/RL/RR only.. Is this correct? or am i doing something wrong? Should my Front C/Sub channel work with ASIO?

 Thanks..


----------



## A.Thorsen

GREAT...let me repeat that...GREAT thread! Thank you!


----------



## wardslw

This is great. Like others, WASAPI isn't working in Win7 for me, but ASIO works fine. Really noticeable difference.


----------



## Graphicism

I've been receiving some PMs from members without a post count regarding 5.1 setup issues, not sure if the new members are finding this thread in google or just browsing the forum.. anyway direct your response to the thread and I or others using the setup can help out. I've gone from working at home freelance to a full time position so I won't be lingering around half as much.

 In answer to a couple questions/comments.

 • Play around with the center channel, see what works best for you; I now have mine set at 1.25
 • In order to get the full effect all FL/FR/C/RL/RR should be active, turning off all but one virtual speaker is a good way to test things.


----------



## fenixdown110

I have my center set at 0.85. I've helped a few people set it up without any problems. I think perhaps the problem is the order that the DSP's should be placed.

 I've converted yet another member to your 5.1 setup. lol


----------



## adrift

This thread ought to be stickied.


----------



## Graphicism

Oh a bump once in a while should suffice... perhaps if I were to convert it to hardware and sell it for a couple thousand bux we would see more interest! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Second thoughts... maybe I need to update the OP, perhaps it's too confusing or reads too much like an effect.


----------



## fenixdown110

Did I hear bump?


----------



## stang

Lol looks a lot like Jesus to me


----------



## fenixdown110

The thing is, we don't know what Jesus really looked like. He could have been a woman or even black. Who really knows?


----------



## Graphicism

Terrific... in a freak series of posts the thread is locked for discussion of religion... carry on.


----------



## fenixdown110

hahaha The 5.1 is Godly! I feel enlightened every time I take a listen.


----------



## RedSky0

FYI I've already started my own 5.1 pagan religion.


----------



## fenixdown110

Can I join? I'll perform any initiation rites. "Thank you, sir. May I have another?!"


----------



## Graphicism

I've simplified the introduction and included a better illustration.


----------



## fenixdown110

Yes. That's a much better picture representation. It really feels like that.


----------



## MrKazador

Following the first post there is clipping, maybe 1.5-2db...very annoying. I'm trying to tweak it so it won't clip.


----------



## fenixdown110

Are you equalizing?


----------



## MrKazador

No equalizer. I can see in peak meter and I can hear clipping but its very faint.


----------



## fenixdown110

Get a more powerful amp perhaps? lol


----------



## MrKazador

Its not that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Channel mixer doesn't properly normalize the audio so it causes some distortion.


----------



## upstateguy

Very cool effect, but why didn't you like the default settings?

 USG


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Following the first post there is clipping, maybe 1.5-2db...very annoying. I'm trying to tweak it so it won't clip._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No equalizer. I can see in peak meter and I can hear clipping but its very faint._

 

You are likely hearing the defects of the recording for the first time. This setup is extremely resolving, which means deleting all your MP3s in favor of lossless. Furthermore you'll find out which of your favorite artists record at +DB, which has been discussed to death and growled upon by every audiophile, commonly stating "They don't record them like they used to."

 Take a look at my Peakmeter Spectrum for the newly remastered Kraftwerk album, sonically beautiful but the whitecaps show +DB which will always distort.






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very cool effect, but why didn't you like the default settings?

 USG_

 

The default setting has the rear speakers emitting sound for the front and vice-versa, with the settings on the front page only the music meant for the rear comes out the rear...


----------



## upstateguy

The default setting has the rear speakers emitting sound for the front and vice-versa, with the settings on the front page only the music meant for the rear comes out the rear...[/QUOTE]

 But don't you loose some of the "effect" by turning off the front/rear "crossfeed"?

 USG


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But don't you loose some of the "effect" by turning off the front/rear "crossfeed"?

 USG_

 

Well let me expand my example from my OP. Listening to Jack Johnson's 'All At Once' on his latest album 'Sleep Through The Static' with my settings Jacks voice will only emit from the front speakers (L, C, R) and the backing music, drums and so on the rear (RL, RR). With default settings Jacks voice will emit from all speakers locations giving no directional presence, mixing vocals with drums and spoiling the subtle effect.

 Play around with it, you can create and save profiles in channel mixer and simply flick between the 2. As default I now have my center channel at 1.25 while others have felt the need to drop it back to 0.75, whatever works best for you.

 For all those trying it out for the first time, leave it on for a day, become accustomed to it, and then turn it off... the difference is shocking.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well let me expand my example from my OP. Listening to Jack Johnson's 'All At Once' on his latest album 'Sleep Through The Static' with my settings Jacks voice will only emit from the front speakers (L, C, R) and the backing music, drums and so on the rear (RL, RR). With default settings Jacks voice will emit from all speakers locations giving no directional presence, mixing vocals with drums and spoiling the subtle effect.

 Play around with it, you can create and save profiles in channel mixer and simply flick between the 2. As default I now have my center channel at 1.25 while others have felt the need to drop it back to 0.75, whatever works best for you.

 For all those trying it out for the first time, leave it on for a day, become accustomed to it, and then turn it off... the difference is shocking._

 

I don't have anything by Jack Johnson, do you have any other "references" I could try out?

 I have stuff from Lucinda, Goldfrap, Rilo Kiley, Zooey, M. ward, Jenny Lewis(by herself), Neko Case, 2 raumwohnung and a lot of others including oldies...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are likely hearing the defects of the recording for the first time. This setup is extremely resolving, which means deleting all your MP3s in favor of lossless. Furthermore you'll find out which of your favorite artists record at +DB, which has been discussed to death and growled upon by every audiophile, commonly stating "They don't record them like they used to."

 Take a look at my Peakmeter Spectrum for the newly remastered Kraftwerk album, sonically beautiful but the whitecaps show +DB which will always distort.








 The default setting has the rear speakers emitting sound for the front and vice-versa, with the settings on the front page only the music meant for the rear comes out the rear..._

 

Exactly. The loudness war. I have to replaygain everything so my ears don't disintegrate from the volume.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have anything by Jack Johnson, do you have any other "references" I could try out?

 I have stuff from Lucinda, Goldfrap, Rilo Kiley, Zooey, M. ward, Jenny Lewis(by herself), Neko Case, 2 raumwohnung and a lot of others including oldies...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG_

 

If by Goldfrapp you are referring to Alison Goldfrapp of the British electronic music group take a listen to Black Cherry on the 2003 Album Black Cherry with the front speakers turned off (with my OP settings) as following:






 Let me know what you hear...


----------



## MrKazador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are likely hearing the defects of the recording for the first time. This setup is extremely resolving, which means deleting all your MP3s in favor of lossless. Furthermore you'll find out which of your favorite artists record at +DB, which has been discussed to death and growled upon by every audiophile, commonly stating "They don't record them like they used to."_

 

Using the settings on the first post




 Its about +3db(music is about +1db hot)...Lowering the center and rear volume slider fixes the issue. Its obviously Channel mixer not properly normalizing audio. If your music is below 0db or use replaygain you might never hear the clipping.


----------



## fenixdown110

Replay gain is a good way to reduce clipping in most cases.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using the settings on the first post




 Its about +3db(music is about +1db hot)...Lowering the center and rear volume slider fixes the issue. Its obviously Channel mixer not properly normalizing audio. If your music is below 0db or use replaygain you might never hear the clipping._

 

Anything +0.1db or above will distort with or without channel mixer, the question is if you are not hearing the clipping previously what else are you missing in the recording?


----------



## MrKazador

Its hard to hear distortion/clipping when no dsp are enabled. Once channel mixer is on it adds enough gain to make it very noticeable. I think the settings needs to be revised or use another DSP.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its hard to hear distortion/clipping when no dsp are enabled. Once channel mixer is on it adds enough gain to make it very noticeable. I think the settings needs to be revised or use another DSP._

 

Well it sounds like you're experiencing the fine line between poor music files and upgraded equipment. I've always preferred the more resolving audio equipment; Sony SA series, Ultrasone - you hear everything, good and bad. To say its too noticeable is to say it's resolving too much detail.

 Out of interest what song in particular are you hearing the distortion, is it a CD or an internet download?


----------



## MrKazador

2Pac- All Eyez on Me(LAME V0)

 Lately I've been listening to lots of rap which usually is above 0db. I tried out ATsurround and it normalizes the audio properly but not many features like Channel Mixer.


----------



## Graphicism

Alright try this:

 (Create a profile and flick between the 2)


----------



## fenixdown110

I don't think it's due to the equipment. The HD555 is hardly a can that can resolve detail to that extent. It must be with the music files. Since they're lossy files, why don't you try ReplayGain? That tends to reduce or eliminate clipping. This doesn't apply to lossless, only lossy.

 I posted something similar in another thread.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* 
_Replay Gain - Player Requirements - Clipping Prevention

 This next one is from Wikipedia and might not be credible, but "With lossy files, another benefit of Replay Gain is that the peak information can also be used to prevent loud songs from clipping.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain

 It generally prevents loud music from clipping. However, it can sometimes act as a double edged sword and induce clipping of it's own, where you would just remove the replay gain. Clipping means that the volume of the audiodata exceeds its max value. Since this is not possible, it is cut off or flattened. When using replay gain, then it is the modifier value which introduces clipping while decoding it only clips when the modifier is applied while decoding. The audiodata itself does not clip._

 

The full thread is here.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f9/lou...ml#post6238207


----------



## MrKazador

The new settings seem to work... but I think I'm going back to normal 2ch listening. It's fun to listen to for a while but I think I loose some high freq when using dolby headphone. One time I was using replaygain but I just gave it up and listened normally.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrKazador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new settings seem to work... but I think I'm going back to normal 2ch listening. It's fun to listen to for a while but I think I loose some high freq when using dolby headphone. One time I was using replaygain but I just gave it up and listened normally._

 

ah well. maybe its not for everyone. Myself, I can't go back to listening to music the same way again. I feel spoiled. This is the closest I'll get to having a decent sounding surround sound system for a fraction of the cost anytime soon. I only wish that I could get dolby headphone and this setup on my iphone.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah well. maybe its not for everyone. Myself, I can't go back to listening to music the same way again. I feel spoiled. This is the closest I'll get to having a decent sounding surround sound system for a fraction of the cost anytime soon. I only wish that I could get dolby headphone and this setup on my iphone._

 

Almost everyone who has tried this can't go back. Welcome to the club. haha


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If by Goldfrapp you are referring to Alison Goldfrapp of the British electronic music group take a listen to Black Cherry on the 2003 Album Black Cherry with the front speakers turned off (with my OP settings) as following:






 Let me know what you hear... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Listening to "Black Cherry" now using the default setting w/o LFE enabled and going back and forth with your OP setting... 

 I'm not sure I agree with turning off the front to back cross feed, or the subwoofer setting either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Every effect I disable makes the sound, sound flatter............ until everything is turned off and I'm back to where I started... stereo.

 Did you discover a problem with the front to back cross feed or the sub woofer setting?

 USG


----------



## Lavcat

It may or may not have to do with anything but someone has reported a problem with the rear channels being out of phase:

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer) - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## ROBSCIX

5.1 Virtualization or surround upmixing is not for everybody. Purists frown on it and some just don't like the sound. As far as I am concerned if it sound good to you, then it is good.
 To each their own.


----------



## owenhan

Well I'm using A700's out of an X-Fi and this makes my music sound less like its playing inside my head, which is a good thing I guess. There's no longer any clear distinction between L and R, instruments that you could previously only hear through one ear sound more like they're further out away from me instead of being right next to my ear. Is this what people refer to when they mention soundstage? How spread out everything sounds? Vocals also sound less prominent relative to the overall music. 

 Overall it sounds pretty great, there's just the issue of making the switch from iTunes to foobar, and overcoming the doubts raised by my inner purist. I may be using a terrible source to drive ampless budget headphones but messing this much with a recording still makes me uncomfortable.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *owenhan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I'm using A700's out of an X-Fi and this makes my music sound less like its playing inside my head, which is a good thing I guess. There's no longer any clear distinction between L and R, instruments that you could previously only hear through one ear sound more like they're further out away from me instead of being right next to my ear. Is this what people refer to when they mention soundstage? How spread out everything sounds? Vocals also sound less prominent relative to the overall music. 

 Overall it sounds pretty great, there's just the issue of making the switch from iTunes to foobar, and overcoming the doubts raised by my inner purist. I may be using a terrible source to drive ampless budget headphones but messing this much with a recording still makes me uncomfortable._

 

More or less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your source is one of the most important links. Just do the switch. I switched from iTunes and I haven't looked back.


----------



## owenhan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More or less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your source is one of the most important links. Just do the switch. I switched from iTunes and I haven't looked back._

 

Yeah I think I'll do that. Do you think you could give me a quick run down of how to set up foobar's output optimally? I've heard people use stuff like ASIO or whatever and I have no idea what any of it means. My foobar atm is just a fresh install with the modifications posted in this thread. I've got my XtremeMusic in audio creation mode with bit perfect output on. Thanks.


----------



## remedy1419

this is absolutely amazing. definitely the revolutionary listening experience i've been looking for since i joined head-fi. i love you. if i was a woman i'd ask you to bear my children.


----------



## cyberspyder

Very nice!


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *owenhan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I think I'll do that. Do you think you could give me a quick run down of how to set up foobar's output optimally? I've heard people use stuff like ASIO or whatever and I have no idea what any of it means. My foobar atm is just a fresh install with the modifications posted in this thread. I've got my XtremeMusic in audio creation mode with bit perfect output on. Thanks._

 

Bit-exact output isn't just limited to ASIO. You can choose between ASIO, Kernel, and Waspai(if you have Windows Vista or 7). I would explain the benefits of bit-exact, but this link will do it for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



Bitperfect - cmediadrivers - "Bitperfect" / "bit-exact" explained - Project Hosting on Google Code
 These all mute system sounds while foobar is in playback. Therefore no sounds will startle or deafen you due to programs or warnings.


----------



## owenhan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bit-exact output isn't just limited to ASIO. You can choose between ASIO, Kernel, and Waspai(if you have Windows Vista or 7). I would explain the benefits of bit-exact, but this link will do it for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Bitperfect - cmediadrivers - "Bitperfect" / "bit-exact" explained - Project Hosting on Google Code
 These all mute system sounds while foobar is in playback. Therefore no sounds will startle or deafen you due to programs or warnings._

 

Oh ok thanks. So is this different to the bit exact setting in the Creative Audio Control Panel?


----------



## fenixdown110

It might be the same, but it's best not to stack settings. I would just disable the Creative and enable the foobar bit-exact.


----------



## khaos974

I'm actually disappointed by this setup. It has the classic faults of a stereo to surround systems.

 On the positive sides, you gain a better sound stage, not wider but fuller and more spread out between your ears. you also get some sense of front/back repartition. All in all, it's still in you head but you get a wider head.

 But I don't get the impression that the system becomes more resolving, if anything it becomes less detailed to me. I can identify an instrument better due to spatialisation but it sounds fuzzier, as if the air became thicker between the instrument and me.

 The trebles become a bit louder but the attacks/decays sound artificial.

 As I said, it may be fantastic for some, but it's not to me.

 EDIT: why do you use the DTS decoder? When listen to a DTS file, it's useful to decode the DTS, but for basic stereo, it's basically a pass through and the channel mixer handles the conversion to 5.0.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Got it to work, not impressed with it.

 Going back to regular 2ch sound.


----------



## fenixdown110

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Different strokes for different folks._

 

I guess. Not sure what the naysayers were expecting. I wonder if some folks simply prefer a straight stereo sound over surround sound.


----------



## razmajazz

Great thread and hat's off to Graphicism for starting it. I felt compelled to register to add a few comments and personal experiences. I've been using the Dolby Headphone wrapper with my Foobar2000 set-up since Chungalin released it in 2005. As many have mentioned here, it revolutionized my listening experience and I could never go back. 

 The complete thread on Dolby Headphone wrapper is worth reading over at Hydrogen Audio (Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP). Most interesting is this post (2ch to 6ch) discussing various algorithms for simulating 6ch from 2ch. An alternative to Channel Mixer is also posted in that thread (foo_dsp_upmix) which converts those algorithms into 3 alternatives: full front, full rear and double center. I currently use full front but there are subtle differences between them and channel mixer.

 My tips/experiences/preferences:
It's critical to use replaygain to prevent clipping with all the signal processing going on.
If you're going to equalize, better to keep all equalizer adjustments below 0db.
Using ASIO, KS or WASAPI to output prevents Windows mixer from messing with the surround soundfield created.
I like the DH2 Live room setting in DH wrapper for jazz which is what I listen to most often.
Be sure not to check the dynamic compressor checkbox in the DH wrapper.
If you want this sound on your portable you can have it by using Foobar to create "headphone only portable" audio files using the built in Convert function with DSP processing. Definitely keep these files separate from your normal music library as they don't sound good without headphones. Preferably start with lossless files and select the tracks to be converted. Right click, select convert, click the ... to open up the Converter Setup window. Select the desired output format then click on the Processing tab. Select the ReplayGain processing checkbox (assuming you have already scanned and applied replaygain to those tracks). Click the DSP checkbox and setup the same DSP chain you use for headphone listening with Foobar2000 (or load the preset you saved in the DSP manager). Click OK to start the conversion. Be careful not to put the computer under load during the conversion as the DH wrapper seems to be sensitive to latency. Any disruption in delivering bits results in dropouts in the encoded file. After conversion, transfer to your portable, turn off any signal processing on the portable (BBE, SRS, etc.) and enjoy.

 Another DSP toy to play with, not related to Dolby Heapdhone but I use them together, is Noise sharpening (foo_dsp_delta). Thread is here: I heart foo_dsp_delta! and download is here: foo_dsp_delta. I like the ER4P type highs it delivers -- really nice for vocals and accoustic music but YMMV. Be careful setting it too high though -- I use 35%.


----------



## Headdie

Quick comments :

 1. There was a thread on head-fi a year ago titled something like : "The holy grail of surround sound with headphones"... The OP did suggest to use a VST wrapper with foobar, so you can use a VST 2ch to 6ch DSP... I didn't try it, but it's an interesting option, since it open up the options to the large VST world.

 2. I've recently tried a DSP to play DVD-Audio disk/files in Foobar. I don't remember the name of this DSP (I'm at the office), but you should find it easily. Listening to DVD-A with the Dolby Headphone DSP should be great.

 3. I've read on the DTS website that they provide something like "DTS Headphones". Has somebody tried it? Could you tell us more about it please.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *razmajazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want this sound on your portable you can have it by using Foobar to create "headphone only portable" audio files using the built in Convert function with DSP processing. Definitely keep these files separate from your normal music library as they don't sound good without headphones. Preferably start with lossless files and select the tracks to be converted. Right click, select convert, click the ... to open up the Converter Setup window. Select the desired output format then click on the Processing tab. Select the ReplayGain processing checkbox (assuming you have already scanned and applied replaygain to those tracks). Click the DSP checkbox and setup the same DSP chain you use for headphone listening with Foobar2000 (or load the preset you saved in the DSP manager). Click OK to start the conversion. Be careful not to put the computer under load during the conversion as the DH wrapper seems to be sensitive to latency. Any disruption in delivering bits results in dropouts in the encoded file. After conversion, transfer to your portable, turn off any signal processing on the portable (BBE, SRS, etc.) and enjoy.
 ._

 

Oh very cool. Thanks for this!


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick comments :

 1. There was a thread on head-fi a year ago titled something like : "The holy grail of surround sound with headphones"... The OP did suggest to use a VST wrapper with foobar, so you can use a VST 2ch to 6ch DSP... I didn't try it, but it's an interesting option, since it open up the options to the large VST world._

 

I was using that setup for a bit before using Graphicism's layout. To be completely honest, I couldn't tell much difference with VST added to Dolby Headphone, and if I remember correctly the starter of that thread mentioned that he had stopped using the VST add-on as well. Graphicism's layout is worlds better if you ask me. Truly the holy grail of surround sound with headphones so far. Actually, someone should link back to this thread from there so folks who are looking for something like this know where to look.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess. Not sure what the naysayers were expecting. I wonder if some folks simply prefer a straight stereo sound over surround sound._

 

I can understand why it wouldn't be liked. The Dolby surround presents the music in a way that it wasn't recorded in or in a way that the artist didn't mean for it to be presented. They just want to listen to it natively as it was intended.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can understand why it wouldn't be liked. The Dolby surround presents the music in a way that it wasn't recorded in or in a way that the artist didn't mean for it to be presented. They just want to listen to it natively as it was intended._

 

Hmm, Maybe so. Still, if that's truly the desire I'm not sure what someone would expect from a synthetic 5.1 setup. Sort of defeats the intention right from the start. Anyways, seems to me that there's quite a bit of music that takes advantage of this setup and sounds far better (to these ears at any rate) than a straight stereo headphone presentation.


----------



## AtomikPi

I just tried this, and it's certainly interesting and I'll try it for the next few weeks, at least. Soundstage is certainly improved, especially in depth, but I'm not sure if there's a loss of clarity. At least their is no artificial echoing as I've dealt with with other 3D DSP's. I _do_ hear a noticeable volume bump, with default settings.


----------



## Napilopez

Wow, this is just ridiculous. I normally can't stand foobar, but this has made me switch. I keep switching back and forth between WMP and foobar with these setting. I too am a sucker for soundstage, especially when listening to orchestrated music. Just about the one thing I don't totally love bout my budget phone HARX700s. 

 I'm seriously shocked. An old rendition of Pavarotti singing Nessun Dorma sounds like it's enveloping me. A MONO one.

 Since my setup is extremely basic, and I'm new to this audiophile stuff, I can't spot any quality dips in my hour or so of switching between regular and Dolby. 

 Thank you so much!


----------



## fenixdown110

It only gets better once your gear is upgraded.


----------



## Emooze

Honestly just scared the crap out of me. With some good Copland, the effect is stunning.


----------



## upstateguy

What setting are you guys using for Dolby Headphone? 

 USG


----------



## fenixdown110

Center: 90
 Rear: 200


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What setting are you guys using for Dolby Headphone? 

 USG_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Center: 90
 Rear: 200_

 

I meant this one............. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 USG


----------



## fenixdown110

In that case, DH2 - Live Room.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case, DH2 - Live Room._

 

In your opinion, what are the differences you hear between the three settings?

 Why did you choose Live Room over the Reference Room?

 USG


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In your opinion, what are the differences you hear between the three settings?

 Why did you choose Live Room over the Reference Room?

 USG_

 


 I think its mostly user preference but the D2 setting seems to be the best compromise for the correct spatial representation of the virtual speakers. D1 is too subtle... too close to the head. D3 seems distant, sometimes boomy, and sort of all over the place to me. D2 seems just about right. Different genres may require different settings though, and to be honest I've played with this feature more when I've used Dolby Headphone to watch movies than I have listening to music. For films its often down to the film genre. Large epic-type films sometimes sound better with the D3 setting.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think its mostly user preference but the D2 setting seems to be the best compromise for the correct spatial representation of the virtual speakers. D1 is too subtle... too close to the head. D3 seems distant, sometimes boomy, and sort of all over the place to me. D2 seems just about right. Different genres may require different settings though, and to be honest I've played with this feature more when I've used Dolby Headphone to watch movies than I have listening to music. For films its often down to the film genre. Large epic-type films sometimes sound better with the D3 setting._

 

How did you get the movie sound track to play with "Dolby Headphone"?

 USG


----------



## Jigen

That's cool. I don't know if I like it better than my original settings, but it's an option to mess around with, at least, and that's what I'm going to do for the next few days. I'll see if it grows on me.

 Either way, thanks for creating this thread. It was very easy to set up.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think its mostly user preference but the D2 setting seems to be the best compromise for the correct spatial representation of the virtual speakers. D1 is too subtle... too close to the head. D3 seems distant, sometimes boomy, and sort of all over the place to me. D2 seems just about right. Different genres may require different settings though, and to be honest I've played with this feature more when I've used Dolby Headphone to watch movies than I have listening to music. For films its often down to the film genre. Large epic-type films sometimes sound better with the D3 setting._

 

It's exactly what you said.


----------



## upstateguy

I've been playing with these settings....

 Headphones are a "Big" system, right?

 Not too shabby.... 

 Very cool to play with.

 Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## dongringo

I was wondering if someone could help me with Channel Mixer. I dl it and put it in the components folder, but I can't do anything with it. I can't open it and it doesn't show up in the Available DSPs in foobar. What's wrong with it? I'm sure it's probably something I'm not familiar with. Please help me.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if someone could help me with Channel Mixer. I dl it and put it in the components folder, but I can't do anything with it. I can't open it and it doesn't show up in the Available DSPs in foobar. What's wrong with it? I'm sure it's probably something I'm not familiar with. Please help me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you extract it? In other words is the file in your foobar components folder a DLL? I had to search for and download a program called 7-zip to work with the Channel Mixer download. I wish the author had just used zip!


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you extract it? In other words is the file in your foobar components folder a DLL? I had to search for and download a program called 7-zip to work with the Channel Mixer download. I wish the author had just used zip!_

 

After I panicked I figured that out and downloaded Quickzip which worked. Everything is up and running sounding unbelievable. Listening to some old Porcupine Tree and totally amazed.

 Thanks!


----------



## Lavcat

Great! Glad it is working for you.


----------



## Lavcat

Just a thought: Dear Mods, could we have this thread made a sticky please?


----------



## fenixdown110

There are way too many stickies already.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did you get the movie sound track to play with "Dolby Headphone"?

 USG_

 

Well... You can't get DH in Foobar for films... at least, not easily. The best way to watch movies on your computer with Dolby Headphone is to follow this guide here on head-fi.org (jeez this place is such a wonderful resource aint it!): http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/gu...player-405417/


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a thought: Dear Mods, could we have this thread made a sticky please?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are way too many stickies already._

 

Maybe so, but he's not the only one to suggest this as a sticky. This thread is totally worth the stickiness if you ask me... I mean, after my first quality headphones and then my discovery of binaural/holophonic audio in general (which I was completely oblivious to before discovering this forum), this is absolutely the closest one seemingly gets to the "eargasm" many are looking for. It was for me at least... Certainly worthy of a sticky of some sort.


----------



## fenixdown110

True. Or we can keep posting in this to bump it to the top.


----------



## Lavcat

I count three stickies currently. Of those three, two have to do with forum rules and only one has to do with content. That's not really a lot of stickies.

 This thread is hardware agnostic (if you don't count me using CMSS-3D Headphone rather than Dolby Headphone after Channel Mixer), and makes use of freely available software. Plus it has helped a lot of people. Seems like a valid candidate for stickiness to me.

 There may even be something better than Channel Mixer out there. I know I am still tweaking settings and trying different things.


----------



## Silenced

anyone doing this on a mac?


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Silenced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone doing this on a mac?_

 

I wish. The only way that I can think it'd be possible to pull this off on a mac is with CrossOver or Parallels. I've looked and couldn't find any software that supports DH on the Mac. A shame really.


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There may even be something better than Channel Mixer out there. I know I am still tweaking settings and trying different things._

 

I changed from Channel Mixer to Free Surround. Not too familiar with audiophile lingo, so it's hard to explain precisely, but it does sound better to my ears. I invite others to try it and give out their impressions.


----------



## Lavcat

I read the Free Surround thread, thanks. Sounds interesting. Unfortunately I had no success downloading the plugin.


----------



## ninjikiran

It sounds much better using my Mixamps dolby mode(Astro $130)

 Setup is otherwise the same without DTS and the Dolby Headphone plugin on foobar.

 Using channel mixer and amp. You need to setup ASIO though Left Right SLeft SRight Center.

 The bass is more powerful(had to lower foobars volume output, my head was shaking DT770's ftw?)

 Initially dolby headphone plugin didn't do much for me. And was a little weak~


----------



## upstateguy

Thread bump with tonight's configuration (with the 701s that I almost never use) Hard to go back to regular stereo.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I changed from Channel Mixer to Free Surround. Not too familiar with audiophile lingo, so it's hard to explain precisely, but it does sound better to my ears. I invite others to try it and give out their impressions._

 

How exactly does it compare to the Channel Mixer surround?


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How exactly does it compare to the Channel Mixer surround?_

 

Sound overall feels less "congested". Voices sound more "natural" and realistic, less "synthetic". Instruments separation is also better in FreeSurround to my ears.


----------



## dongringo

Just wanted to express my appreciation of this thread.

 I can't believe the difference this had made. I love my RS1s, but they would get fatiguing really fast, for obvious reasons. But I still preferred them for progressive metal due to the gut wrenching punch they provide. Well, with this 5.1 surround setup, they have lost some of the chunk that I love about them, but they are WAY less fatiguing and I'm now able to enjoy what they offer for a much longer period of time. Besides, there's still plenty of chunk to be had. So the trade off is totally worth it in my book.

 As far as my D5000s are concerned, rock really isn't well represented to begin with, but I preferred them more for the more dynamic space rock of older Porcupine Tree, anything with a lot of keyboards, as well as some acoustic based music and jazz. But the 5.1 surround opened up the soundstage on these considerably and have a better all around balance than before. 

 When I test the difference, with and without, I can't believe the difference. I'm getting so spoiled here on head-fi. How did I go through life without good sounding music? I really feel like I wasted 40 years of my life. lol


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sound overall feels less "congested". Voices sound more "natural" and realistic, less "synthetic". Instruments separation is also better in FreeSurround to my ears._

 

I'm going to give this a try then.


----------



## owenhan

I'm pretty interested in how FreeSurround turns out for you. Might give it a try later.


----------



## adrianbrac

I am trying to do this tweak, but for some reason I cannot see foo_channel_mixer.7z in the DSP section. I downloaded it from the page, and put it into the component folder.

 Is there something I am doing wrong? I get the other DSP's in the DSP section, but the Channel Mixer does not show up.

 Help Please.


 *EDIT* I did not know .7z was an archive file. DL'd it and extracted the file. Took alittle bit of brain mechanics. Thanks.


----------



## Lavcat

Has anyone else tried the option "Add low freqs"? I could find no information about this option on hydrogenaudio, nor anywhere else.

 I am assuming that if "Add low freqs" is unchecked, low frequencies are *not* sent to the rear channels. Since we are using headphones, there is no reason not to send low frequencies to the rear channels. I don't think the option is adding any extra bass beyond what should be there.

 I've also played around with "Stereoimage width" and decided I like it best at the default of 1.00.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I test the difference, with and without, I can't believe the difference. I'm getting so spoiled here on head-fi. How did I go through life without good sounding music? I really feel like I wasted 40 years of my life. lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, I feel the exact same way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, thanks to those who are still experimenting with this for an even better experience.


----------



## JackeShan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 As far as my D5000s are concerned, rock really isn't well represented to begin with, but I preferred them more for the more dynamic space rock of older Porcupine Tree, anything with a lot of keyboards, as well as some acoustic based music and jazz. But the 5.1 surround opened up the soundstage on these considerably and have a better all around balance than before. 

 When I test the difference, with and without, I can't believe the difference. I'm getting so spoiled here on head-fi. How did I go through life without good sounding music? I really feel like I wasted 40 years of my life. lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds impressive...... have to try this out.
 Btw, did anyone get this to work with WASAPI? I read someone had problems.

 EDIT:

 OK I just tested this with Denon D5000 as well, and wow I am actually very surprised. The "Dolby headphone" function in Xonar really sounds awful.. while this mod doesn't make the sound worse, just a much better soundtage.

 Thanks OP for this!


----------



## roadcykler

I figured it out. The file from lynne music was opening in Quicktime. DOH!


----------



## Lavcat

Using the Spectrum view in foobar I confirmed that unless "Add low freqs" is checked there is no bass in the rear channels.

 I'm also liking some "Rear in front".


 Edit: A few months later I am re-reading this thread. Several posts down I discovered that having rear in front (or for that matter front in rear) is generally a bad thing. On some music mixing a little rear in front was OK, but for other music it was terrible.


----------



## AtomikPi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using the Spectrum view in foobar I confirmed that unless "Add low freqs" is checked there is no bass in the rear channels.

 I'm also liking some "Rear in front"._

 

That would explain why some have experienced a loss of punchiness. OP should probably be edited to mention this.


----------



## bigfatdynamo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomikPi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would explain why some have experienced a loss of punchiness. OP should probably be edited to mention this._

 

So what is a 'natural' sounding setting for this? Having no idea what "splitting frequency" does, I have been playing around with it and have found that I either add way to much bass - it sounds distorted OR I take too much out OR it sounds like I have done nothing.


----------



## mmss939

nice thread! i can hear huge differences between normal stereo and the 5.1
 but i guess it's a personal thing....i use it depending on my mood.
 i use 5.1 mostly for classical musics. omg Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade never sounded so good.


----------



## Watsdat88

I figured the Split Freq option really didn't do anything for me. As said above, it either caused too much distortion in the bass - or it didn't feel like it sounded any different with it being lowered to take the distortion away. 

 Anyone found some decent settings for the Rear in front option? It sounds sweet, just can't figure out what's the perfect setting :<


----------



## bigfatdynamo

My experience:

 Used music/Equipment: Asus WinXP laptop (circa 2006)-> Foobar -> ASIO4ALL -> generic USB cord -> Maverick DAC -> Completely stock Ultrasone HFI 780s.

 Music: FLAC: Rush Moving Pictures / Sarah McLachlan Closer: The Best of.. / Jay-Z Empire State of Mind / Them Crooked Vultures 

 320mp3: Once OST / Jay-Z Empire State of Mind / Eric Clapton Unplugged
 256VBR mp3: The Clipse / Popular Demand

 Some other, lower quality mixtapes were also used -- Normally at 192

 I played around with it some more and had a nagging feeling that it was 'colouring' the music, especially female vocals. I decieded to get a second opinion with my girlfriend, who is a trained vocalist. I loaded up a song I knew she was very familiar with - Building a Mystery from Sarah McLachlan's 'Best of CD' - and asked her to listen. I began with the Dolby headphone as set up in the OP (with 1.25 centre) and she right away took it off the headphones and gave me a look. I asked her to try it again with nothing and then switched to bs2b on the cmoy setting. She could not tell the difference between the vanilla sound and the crosfeed sound but noted that the vocals on the DH were unnatural. 

 Personally, I prefer the stock sound but become fatigued quite quickly. I use the bs2b setting on the default or the cmoy depending on listening times. After a couple days use with multiple 4 + hour sessions, I find the the dolby headphone to be the least fatiguing setting, the cmoy bs2b to be the best balance, and no DSP to be the best sounding. 

 The cmoy bs2b was also the most generous with lossy files, I am assuming this is because some of the highs are rolled off. Dolby Headphone completely exposed poor files; however, 320 and FLAC were mostly indistinguishable.


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I changed from Channel Mixer to Free Surround. Not too familiar with audiophile lingo, so it's hard to explain precisely, but it does sound better to my ears. I invite others to try it and give out their impressions._

 

Interesting, what settings do you use out of curiosity? Kind of hard to A/B but it definitely sounds a bit different.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read the Free Surround thread, thanks. Sounds interesting. Unfortunately I had no success downloading the plugin._

 

Download this and stick it in Windows/System32: Download libfftw3f 3.dll

 Put this in your components folder: Download foo_dsp_fsurround.dll


----------



## gurubhai

I experimented with this kind of setup couple of years back.
 I liked this one much better :

Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## JackeShan

Anyone know where I can get the VST plugin mentioned above? (For Foobar 0.9.6.9)


----------



## gurubhai

V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter VST Plugin Suite

 here


----------



## JackeShan

Sorry I meant VST host bridge.


----------



## gurubhai

ok, here it is

George Yohng's VST wrapper for Foobar2000 - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, what settings do you use out of curiosity? Kind of hard to A/B but it definitely sounds a bit different._

 

Using the same values as the maker of the plugin:


----------



## bigfatdynamo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigfatdynamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience:

 Used music/Equipment: Asus WinXP laptop (circa 2006)-> Foobar -> ASIO4ALL -> generic USB cord -> Maverick DAC -> Completely stock Ultrasone HFI 780s.

 Music: FLAC: Rush Moving Pictures / Sarah McLachlan Closer: The Best of.. / Jay-Z Empire State of Mind / Them Crooked Vultures 

 320mp3: Once OST / Jay-Z Empire State of Mind / Eric Clapton Unplugged
 256VBR mp3: The Clipse / Popular Demand

 Some other, lower quality mixtapes were also used -- Normally at 192

 I played around with it some more and had a nagging feeling that it was 'colouring' the music, especially female vocals. I decieded to get a second opinion with my girlfriend, who is a trained vocalist. I loaded up a song I knew she was very familiar with - Building a Mystery from Sarah McLachlan's 'Best of CD' - and asked her to listen. I began with the Dolby headphone as set up in the OP (with 1.25 centre) and she right away took it off the headphones and gave me a look. I asked her to try it again with nothing and then switched to bs2b on the cmoy setting. She could not tell the difference between the vanilla sound and the crosfeed sound but noted that the vocals on the DH were unnatural. 

 Personally, I prefer the stock sound but become fatigued quite quickly. I use the bs2b setting on the default or the cmoy depending on listening times. After a couple days use with multiple 4 + hour sessions, I find the the dolby headphone to be the least fatiguing setting, the cmoy bs2b to be the best balance, and no DSP to be the best sounding. 

 The cmoy bs2b was also the most generous with lossy files, I am assuming this is because some of the highs are rolled off. Dolby Headphone completely exposed poor files; however, 320 and FLAC were mostly indistinguishable._

 

I listened to some Massive Attack FLAC's and tweaked the centre speaker a bit and found that the Dolby Headphone setting was really good. I set the centre speaker to .90 and I found that sound stage was really open. When I used this setting on hip hop/rap it also sounded great. The lyrical content felt more integrated with the music, artists felt more 'in tune' with the beat - as opposed to 'rapping' over it. When I went with vocal based acoustic music it did not work as well with the vocals being too muted. 

 Is the VST thing really worth the trouble of installing something to my windows folder and will it have any other consequences. I really like the simplicity of the foobar components folder and want to know what happens if I install this other dealie to my windows system folder or where ever it goes. I still prefer the bs2b cmoy setting and do not want it impacted. I also do not want other computer tasks to be altered such as watching movies.

 I would also like some suggestions for 'rear in front.' I either notice it or do not.

 EDIT: I am now using 1.25 centre // .50 rear in front. Through AB I found this to actually work with female vocals and will probably be keeping it as my Dolby Headphone setting for foobar. I also tried the 2ch to 6ch upmixer but I liked the ability to fine tune with the one the OP recommended. I am also using DH2.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Kind of hard to A/B 
_

 

Very easy to A-B. Save them in foobar DSP Manager.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigfatdynamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 EDIT: I am now using 1.25 centre // .50 rear in front. 
_

 

You know, it seems to me that by increasing the level of the center channel, you are moving the center information spatially closer to the L & R information, flattening the sound stage and decreasing the overall effect.


----------



## fenixdown110

No luck getting Free Surround to work with Win7.


----------



## bigfatdynamo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, it seems to me that by increasing the level of the center channel, you are moving the center information spatially closer to the L & R information, flattening the sound stage and decreasing the overall effect._

 

I would say that I am simply moving my seat forward. I had a setting of .90 and found that the vocals blended into the instrumental on tracks where it is evident listening sans DSP that the vocal is meant to be the 'centrepeic.' So, for hip hop and other 'electronic' music it was decent. For Diana and Sarah, they became lost. I found that by increasing the centre and then bringing some of the rear into the front I repositioned myself 'closer' to the stage. IMO, it should be music first, effect second. I may lose some separation, but the music sounds more true to the way it was originally equalized.


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No luck getting Free Surround to work with Win7._

 

Weird... I'm using Win7 Pro 64x and it works fine. Must be something else.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird... I'm using Win7 Pro 64x and it works fine. Must be something else._

 

The dll file can't even be read by foobar. It says that it might not be compatible with the current version of foobar...


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigfatdynamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say that I am simply moving my seat forward. I had a setting of .90 and found that the vocals blended into the instrumental on tracks where it is evident listening sans DSP that the vocal is meant to be the 'centrepeic.' So, for hip hop and other 'electronic' music it was decent. For Diana and Sarah, they became lost. I found that by increasing the centre and then bringing some of the rear into the front I repositioned myself 'closer' to the stage. IMO, it should be music first, effect second. I may lose some separation, but the music sounds more true to the way it was originally equalized._

 

I wish I could agree with you, but if you were just moving your seat forward, the L & R volume would also get louder as you move closer to the source. But that is not the case.

 What you are doing is bringing the center information closer to you while keeping the L & R information where it was. This flattens the sound stage because the center information is no longer as far from the L & R information as it was before.

 BTW, have you tried the VST plugin? I find the default values for VST and the default values for the channel mixer to sound quite similar regarding the distance of the center information from the L & R.

 USG


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The dll file can't even be read by foobar. It says that it might not be compatible with the current version of foobar..._

 

What version of foobar are you running? Do you got the right dll?


----------



## bigfatdynamo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish I could agree with you, but if you were just moving your seat forward, the L & R volume would also get louder as you move closer to the source. But that is not the case.

 What you are doing is bringing the center information closer to you while keeping the L & R information where it was. This flattens the sound stage because the center information is no longer as far from the L & R information as it was before.

 BTW, have you tried the VST plugin? I find the default values for VST and the default values for the channel mixer to sound quite similar regarding the distance of the center information from the L & R.

 USG_

 

How do I use it? I downloaded and installed the package from the website, but nothing comes up. How do I get to those menus.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigfatdynamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do I use it? I downloaded and installed the package from the website, but nothing comes up. How do I get to those menus._

 

first try quitting foobar and restarting. Did you put the plugin in the foobar components? 

 As a caution, it will oscillate if you go from one VST configuration directly to another, so go throug a non VST default setting first.

 Edit: if it oscillates, just quickly click the foobar play again so it restarts the selection.

 it should look something like this


----------



## RedSky0

I had issues with VST bridge, so I just use this:

http://www.yohng.com/foobarvst.zip


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had issues with VST bridge, so I just use this:

http://www.yohng.com/foobarvst.zip_

 

It doesn't sound as good as the regular VST or Channel Mixer......

 could you post a pic of your config? Maybe I have it set up wrong.


----------



## Napilopez

Hey guys, so recently I've been very indecisive about this. While the soundstage effect is amazing, I was finding vocals, or maybe the just the center sounds, were sounding somewhat mufled. I decided to try free surround, which seemed to work better with the vocals but then I found the sides weren't sounding as good. 

 So then I was just like "I wonder what happens if I just max out all the sliders in free surround?" And then I laughed, because it sounded better than any other setting I've used so far! 

 I haven't gone through all the types of music in my playlist yet, but it sounded great with Michael Jackson's Thriller(especially the beginning little portion) and Beyonce's Halo, Frank Sinatra's Fly me to the Moon, as well as some orchestrated videogame music (The 13th Anthology by Yoko Shimomura is an amazing track). I need to A/B more with the dolby-less setup, but so far I like what I'm hearing.

 Maybe it's just my setup, though. The RX700s sound awesome, but their soundstage isn't very big, and it definitely sounds like I'm wearing headphones. Whilst before the vocals sounded somewhat veiled or muffled, now they just feel "further". Free surround does seem to lower volume more than channel mixer though.

 Edit: Oohhh "I am the Warlus" by the fab four(beatles) sounds amazinggg with this.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Napilopez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, so recently I've been very indecisive about this. While the soundstage effect is amazing, I was finding vocals, or maybe the just the center sounds, were sounding somewhat mufled. I decided to try free surround, which seemed to work better with the vocals but then I found the sides weren't sounding as good. 

 So then I was just like "I wonder what happens if I just max out all the sliders in free surround?" And then I laughed, because it sounded better than any other setting I've used so far! 

 I haven't gone through all the types of music in my playlist yet, but it sounded great with Michael Jackson's Thriller(especially the beginning little portion) and Beyonce's Halo, Frank Sinatra's Fly me to the Moon, as well as some orchestrated videogame music (The 13th Anthology by Yoko Shimomura is an amazing track). I need to A/B more with the dolby-less setup, but so far I like what I'm hearing.

 Maybe it's just my setup, though. The RX700s sound awesome, but their soundstage isn't very big, and it definitely sounds like I'm wearing headphones. Whilst before the vocals sounded somewhat veiled or muffled, now they just feel "further". Free surround does seem to lower volume more than channel mixer though.

 Edit: Oohhh "I am the Warlus" by the fab four(beatles) sounds amazinggg with this._

 

could you post a screenshot of your settings?


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't sound as good as the regular VST or Channel Mixer......

 could you post a pic of your config? Maybe I have it set up wrong._

 

Neither, I didn't play around with it much since I'm very happy with the original config already.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Neither, I didn't play around with it much since I'm very happy with the original config already._

 

which original config? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have configs for VST, VST Wrapper, Free Surround, and Channel Mixer, both with and without Advanced Limiter and George Yohng's W1 Limiter........

 All work, but regular VST can be a little twitchy and cause a crash if I switch around too much.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigfatdynamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say that I am simply moving my seat forward. I had a setting of .90 and found that the vocals blended into the instrumental on tracks where it is evident listening sans DSP that the vocal is meant to be the 'centrepeic.' So, for hip hop and other 'electronic' music it was decent. For Diana and Sarah, they became lost. I found that by increasing the centre and then bringing some of the rear into the front I repositioned myself 'closer' to the stage. IMO, it should be music first, effect second. I may lose some separation, but the music sounds more true to the way it was originally equalized._

 

I was increasing center to 1.25 and adding some rear to front. For some things I thought this combination sounded good, but I found adding rear to front made some tracks sound horrid -- hollow, as if something was out of phase.

 I have gone back to center slightly less than 1.0 and no rear in front.


----------



## ScarlettD

I also do not have similar references that It is kind hard to test


----------



## adrift

I'm still hearing some clipping in some songs with this setup and I'm not certain its my gear, or maybe I have some setting wrong in my Foobar settings, or if its just some music I own is just a casualty of the loudness war. Air's _Universal Traveler_ off of their Walkie Talkie album is a track that really stands out to me with the Dolby settings. Especially about mid-way through the song. I'm listening to it in flac on two different computers with two pretty different setups. If I turn off Dolby Headphone I can still hear some clipping on one of the machines (haven't tried this on the other yet) but only if I turn up the volume to practically 6:00.

 Would anyone happen to be familiar with this track and help me confirm its not something I'm messing up on my end? I've also tried applying Replaygain and Advance Limiter with no success.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still hearing some clipping in some songs with this setup and I'm not certain its my gear, or maybe I have some setting wrong in my Foobar settings, or if its just some music I own is just a casualty of the loudness war. Air's Universal Traveler off of their Walkie Talkie album is a track that really stands out to me with the Dolby settings. Especially about mid-way through the song. I'm listening to it in flac on two different computers with two pretty different setups. If I turn off Dolby Headphone I can still hear some clipping on one of the machines (haven't tried this on the other yet) but only if I turn up the volume to practically 6:00.

 Would anyone happen to be familiar with this track and help me confirm its not something I'm messing up on my end? I've also tried applying Replaygain and Advance Limiter with no success._

 

It's probably in your source material. See if you get any clipping with Massive Attack's "Angel".


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's probably in your source material. See if you get any clipping with Massive Attack's "Angel"._

 

Okay, will do. Thank you.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's probably in your source material. See if you get any clipping with Massive Attack's "Angel"._

 

Okay, found and played this tonight. It wasn't flac, but mp3 at 320. Figured I wouldn't notice much of a difference either way. Through all the crunching guitars and crashing cymbals I couldn't discern any clipping.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still hearing some clipping in some songs with this setup and I'm not certain its my gear, or maybe I have some setting wrong in my Foobar settings, or if its just some music I own is just a casualty of the loudness war. Air's Universal Traveler off of their Walkie Talkie album is a track that really stands out to me with the Dolby settings. Especially about mid-way through the song. I'm listening to it in flac on two different computers with two pretty different setups. If I turn off Dolby Headphone I can still hear some clipping on one of the machines (haven't tried this on the other yet) but only if I turn up the volume to practically 6:00.

 Would anyone happen to be familiar with this track and help me confirm its not something I'm messing up on my end? I've also tried applying Replaygain and Advance Limiter with no success._

 

You could try looking at foobar's peak meter. But my guess is it's a problem with the source.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could try looking at foobar's peak meter. But my guess is it's a problem with the source._

 

Is that a component you have to add or does it come standard with foobar?


----------



## gurubhai

^^ keep the dolby headphone volume to 50%. AFAIR,this should avoid clipping,someone suggested so at HA forums.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ keep the dolby headphone volume to 50%. AFAIR,this should avoid clipping,someone suggested so at HA forums._

 

Interesting. I had no idea. I'll have to try that.


----------



## Silenced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish. The only way that I can think it'd be possible to pull this off on a mac is with CrossOver or Parallels. I've looked and couldn't find any software that supports DH on the Mac. A shame really._

 

ughh, I would have really liked to try it.


----------



## AtomikPi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ keep the dolby headphone volume to 50%. AFAIR,this should avoid clipping,someone suggested so at HA forums._

 

That really isn't ideal as you're relying on digital volume attenuation from dolby's algorithm. I don't think there's any clipping occurring that wouldn't without the plugin, unless someone shows peakmeters that disagree.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a component you have to add or does it come standard with foobar?_

 

I'm not a foobar expert but I believe the peak meter is part of the standard package. It is found under View/Visualisations/Peak Meter.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomikPi* 
_That really isn't ideal as you're relying on digital volume attenuation from dolby's algorithm. I don't think there's any clipping occurring that wouldn't without the plugin, unless someone shows peakmeters that disagree._

 

Check this :

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...dpost&p=454247


----------



## Silenced

So no hardware version of this, compares?


----------



## JAChichorro

Been experimenting with Matrix Mixer, surround seems more natural, less like headphones. Prefer it over Channel Mixer and FreeSurround thus far.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been experimenting with Matrix Mixer, surround seems more natural, less like headphones. Prefer it over Channel Mixer and FreeSurround thus far._

 

I just tried Matrix Mixer on your recommendation, but I am seeing only two channels displayed in foobar. How do you have yours configured? I have no idea what it is currently doing. To me music sounds the same whether Matrix Mixer is in or out.

 I have been searching but I can't find much information on Matrix Mixer.


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried Matrix Mixer on your recommendation, but I am seeing only two channels displayed in foobar. How do you have yours configured? I have no idea what it is currently doing. To me music sounds the same whether Matrix Mixer is in or out.

 I have been searching but I can't find much information on Matrix Mixer._

 

Here's how mine is configured:


----------



## dongringo

Do you just replace Channel Mixer with Matrix Mixer? Anything we need to know?


----------



## Speex

Holy crap. This is one of the best audio tricks I've ever tried. All of my songs sound more full, softer, and generally better. The soundstage is just awesome. I can't wait to try this with a pair of really good cans.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm currently eyeing the Grado SR80s.... just need the money...


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you just replace Channel Mixer with Matrix Mixer? Anything we need to know?_

 

Exactly, I just replaced Channel Mixer with Matrix Mixer in the DSP chain, configuring it like the image in my earlier post.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's how mine is configured:





_

 

Well that made a difference. Dylan and the band were then behind my head. That or I had my phones reversed. Seriously, at the moment I'm listening with my phones intentionally on backwards and it sounds not bad! A bit uncomfortable unfortunately.

 Is there any reference for the settings or does one just have to play with them?


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that made a difference. Dylan and the band were then behind my head. That or I had my phones reversed. Seriously, at the moment I'm listening with my phones intentionally on backwards and it sounds not bad! A bit uncomfortable unfortunately.

 Is there any reference for the settings or does one just have to play with them?_

 

Play at will, I'm still playing in search of an optimum setting.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Play at will, I'm still playing in search of an optimum setting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you found a way to make the setting stick? If I take it out and later put it back in the previous settings are gone.


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you found a way to make the setting stick? If I take it out and later put it back in the previous settings are gone._

 

Just saved the profile with the right settings in foobar's DSP options page.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saved the profile with the right settings in foobar's DSP options page._

 

The field labeled "Presets"?


----------



## JAChichorro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The field labeled "Presets"?_

 

Exactly. I have 3 presets (called Headphones CM, Headphones MM and Headphones FS)that are the same in everything except the channel upmixing. DSP chain: Resampler (SoX mod)-> channel upmixing (Channel Mixer/Matrix mixer/FreeSurround respectively) -> Dolby Headphone


----------



## David.M

i use media player classic for movies.

 does this work for mp3/flac ?


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i use media player classic for movies.

 does this work for mp3/flac ?_

 

Using foobar with these plugins works for mp3's. Should work for flac but I never tried.

 If I misunderstood and you meant will the foobar plugins work in media player, I rather doubt it.


----------



## MusX

Hello,

 could you please add info to first about:
 - hardware requirements: sound card, headphone
 - source audio file's format
 - foobar output methods

 I did everything you wrote in guide but surround test plays all channels in any ticked 'speaker'.
 Tried on WASAPI/DS usb sound card and DS built-in realtek sound card.
 Sound from that setup is lots quiet than normal, any way to make it louder without eq? hard to compare two different loudness setups
 Windows 7 64bit


----------



## David.M

I was a bit skeptical of this, but today i made the switch to foobar 5.1 configuration on my beyer dt880's 

 AND ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW...........

 Separation/vocals could not have been so intact. I thought clarity would suffer(apparently i was wrong) It's like there's a subwoofer somewhere in my head transmitting signal waves from each channel like a robot's brain or something. 

 It's just a wonderful music experience & I definitely don't need 5 grand worth of speakers when my beyers sound just as good 

 Just leave everything on default. Toying with the settings too much can make it sound over grainy and it might loose its touch. I have the center on mine at 1.0 and couldn't of been any happier. 

 thank you OP & to that guy who made that Dolby Headphone guide with MPC+ZOOM.

 now to leave some Celldweller/Megadeth albums on 24/7(on 5.1 surround setup) and burn these cans to their full potential.


----------



## Graphicism

Nice to see this thread getting some attention and even evolving. I'll play around with the other alternatives myself and see how I like them in comparison.

 I will add in channel mixer: Rear volume equals width away from ears in your 'headspace', thus 2.00 should produce the best soundstage and musical separation given that you have good quality music files.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MusX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 could you please add info to first about:
 - hardware requirements: sound card, headphone
 - source audio file's format
 - foobar output methods_

 

Well I use a bit-perfect sound card but it shouldn't matter. Ultrasone headphones are clearly my preference for this setup however this shouldn't put others off and will still work rather well with whatever you have.

 Source as clean as possible, original, FLAC or AAC preferred. MP3s even properly encoded ones have dirty highs and lows but do still work, i.e. output sound.

 Foobar output is problematic with WASAPI on Win7, I believe some are using ASIO with success. A clean install of foobar using direct sound should work just fine.


----------



## MusX

there is no 5.1 sound card needed right? I got 2 channel card e-mu 0202 and senn hd555. when use output wasapi emu music stops when switching to this DSP setup and return error about lack of 6 channel support. any way to normalize volume to make both setups easier to compare? source flac
 hmm
 It sound totally different, it sounds lots more 3D than normal setup. For me it sounds a bit like live song 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But i'm not sure if it sounds better than non-live version 
 anyway surround test still plays all channels when ticked only one channel


----------



## internethandle

YouTube - Surround Sound Headphones & the HD800

 Thought the above was an interesting video in the context of this thread, if it hasn't already been posted. It seems Sennheiser is working on a headphone surround technology of their own, specifically for the HD 800.


----------



## David.M

IMO, in the Dolby Headphone configuration, 

 i think the amplification volume should be left at 200%. 

 100% is stable and probably preferred by most people. I just think the volume is a tad bit quiet, but if you set it to 200%, the soundstage/impact hits you even more and makes 5.1 truly a great experience. 

 This is just my observation, i have no distortion /dampy noise at 200%. SQ stayed intact and did not suffer like most people said. 

 I also am using FreeSurround at default settings and it sounds a bit sharper/balanced than channel mixer. 

 I am very satisfied and will be using this for all my music needs. I can't even fathom going back to regular 2.0 stereo now


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, in the Dolby Headphone configuration, 

 i think the amplification volume should be left at 200%. 

 100% is stable and probably preferred by most people. I just think the volume is a tad bit quiet, but if you set it to 200%, the soundstage/impact hits you even more and makes 5.1 truly a great experience. 

 This is just my observation, i have no distortion /dampy noise at 200%. SQ stayed intact and did not suffer like most people said. 

 I also am using FreeSurround at default settings and it sounds a bit sharper/balanced than channel mixer. 

 I am very satisfied and will be using this for all my music needs. I can't even fathom going back to regular 2.0 stereo now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I tried it and I agree with setting it to 200%. It sounds more "alive".


----------



## Graphicism

200% amplification is completely blown out, not recommended.


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_200% amplification is completely blown out, not recommended._

 

Yeah, I tried it, not good. I'm convinced it will do driver damage.


----------



## stang

Lol I love how forums work. One person makes a good point, people reply to that post agreeing with what they said. Then another person replies with a negative point and people reply agreeing to that point


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol I love how forums work. One person makes a good point, people reply to that post agreeing with what they said. Then another person replies with a negative point and people reply agreeing to that point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL Good point. I agree with it.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL Good point. I agree with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And I agree with disagreeing. Or was it disagreeing with agreeing?


----------



## stang

lmao, this is going to get a lot of people either laughing or angry because I stated something that they do


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_200% amplification is completely blown out, not recommended._

 

I guess you didn't read the lines after the 200%. 

 I am replacing Channel Mixer and using *Free Surround* instead. 

 at 100%(on Free Surround) the volume from all 6 channels seems less impacting/ a tad bit quiet. Raising it to 200% does not interfere with SQ. It even sounds better

 On Channel Mixer...... ya....... at 200% amplification volume, it sounds intolerable, boomy, and just unnatural. why? 

 *hint* *hint* it's combined with DTS Decoder *hint* *hint*

 Free Surround has its own source, so setting amplification to 200% is no problem at all. 

 here's my settings if anyone wants to know









 I'll experiment with both. but I'm really digging the FreeSurround atm


----------



## owenhan

So what should my DSP list look like with Free Surround? DTS Decoder, Free Surround and Dolby Headphone in that order? Or no DTS Decoder?

 *edit* Just tried Free Surround using the previously posted settings and I'm already liking it more than Channel Mixer. I'm not sure if it's just me but Channel Mixer seemed to make my music sound a little muffled or muddy at times, especially the vocals. I haven't tried the 200% amplification in Dolby Headphone yet. Does it matter if I have the DTS decoder DSP enabled when I set the DH amp to 200%?


----------



## MusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MusX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway surround test still plays all channels when ticked only one channel_

 

this was problem of wrong order on dsp list, I was using dts decoder - dolby headphone - channel mixer
 when I switch dolby headphone with channer mixer it works very well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 screw! now sound totally rocks!! for sure I won't go back to normal stereo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *owenhan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what should my DSP list look like with Free Surround? DTS Decoder, Free Surround and Dolby Headphone in that order? Or no DTS Decoder?_

 

probably (as read above):
 dts decoder - channel mixer/free surround - dolby headphone
 first post should be updated to make it more clear, also hardware requirements

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Free Surround has its own source, so setting amplification to 200% is no problem at all._

 

I've ask in plugin's thread for an official upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 what about advanced limiter, does it makes any effects when it is on the end of that dsp configuration? and where to put EQ, before or after those setups?


----------



## Silenced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Silenced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So no hardware version of this compares?_

 

anyone?


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Silenced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone doing this on a mac?_

 

I was able to actually do this on a Mac as I mentioned in another thread. An Admin at the Hydrogenaudio forum named Dibrom created a wine/Foobar2000 bundle. I was able to plug in all the components I needed to get this off the ground with almost no issues.

foobar2000 for Mac OS X - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## Napilopez

I have to agree with David. I am also using free surround with 200% amplification and no DTS recorder. Sounds absolutely amazing. I find it resolves the center channel better, as previously for rock it sounded to recessed. This feels more balanced overall, with a bigger soundstage when it needs be. That's just for my RX700s though. With my sister's FC700s, I prefer Dolby headphone. I have all the sliders maxed out in Free Surround. No loss of detail for me.


----------



## Flognuts

Tried it and hated it. 

 If im not mistaken my xonar essence stx sound card has the same dsp built into the drivers?

 am i the only one who doesn't like it?

 Strong first post.....


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, what settings do you use out of curiosity? Kind of hard to A/B but it definitely sounds a bit different.


 Download this and stick it in Windows/System32: Download libfftw3f 3.dll

 Put this in your components folder: Download foo_dsp_fsurround.dll_

 

I figured out why it wouldn't work for me. You don't put the FFTW library in the win32 folder. You put it in the foobar2000 main folder. Problem solved.

 There's so much more depth. The soundstage really pops out at you now. Separation is so much more separated. However, the background seems a little too forward. Amplification for me can't be at 200%. At 200, it seems washed out. I have it at 150% and the soundstage is almost as wide with the same amount of separation without the center blending into the background.


----------



## BryanP

I can relate to the "depth." 

 I'm actually running almost an inverted process with my setup except that it's all done through hardware. Currently I'm allowing my Montego DDL to recompress the SPDIF signal into DDL stereo (which I'm decoding through my receiver) which essentially just removes the rear channels but retains the surround, center, F/R, and sub channels. I just removed the center channel since it has more of an effect on the overall treble of the sound. Just by leaving the surround/center/F/R as be, it sounds similar to the neutral sound I'm used to with my headphones, except with MUCH better separation! It's not separated in a sense where the vocals and instruments are confined solely to one side, but in a much more natural distribution. The soundstage is much wider and it just seems like you're immersed in the music. Generally I don't use DSPs to alter the sound (other than some EQing for the headphones), but I'm definitely so in love with this one, it's hard to go back. Every single genre just sounds so much better and I don't hear lack of any detail. The RE0s sound really good! 

 edit: messed around with the surround and got better results!


----------



## Silenced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was able to actually do this on a Mac as I mentioned in another thread. An Admin at the Hydrogenaudio forum named Dibrom created a wine/Foobar2000 bundle. I was able to plug in all the components I needed to get this off the ground with almost no issues.

foobar2000 for Mac OS X - Hydrogenaudio Forums_

 

THANK YOU! This was the only thing holding me back from going for a Mac. One question is running it through wine a big strain on resources? Sorry for going off topic.


----------



## dongringo

I also replaced Channel Mixer and DTS Decoder with FreeSurround. Wow! What can I say? I liked the basic effects that Channel Mixer gave, but I love FreeSurround. Nothing sounds recessed anymore. It's so much more balanced.


----------



## Graphicism

Well I've played around with FreeSurround this past week and have come back to my preferred Channel Mixer setup; some thoughts..

 With FreeSurround & Dolby headphone between 100-200%
 • FreeSurround adds more of an echo to the rear, giving the illusion of a larger soundstage.
 • Sound is back to being dominantly from the rear, center channel even at max setting is not prominent enough.
 • Crossover of front in rear and vice versa doesn't allow for proper musical separation.

 It is difficult to switch between channel mixer and freesurround but I will point out when re-enabling channel mixer you must select your profile again otherwise it reverts to default without your knowledge.

 I'd be interested to hear from other Ultrasone users on what you prefer and your headstage experience, where exactly you are placed in the music.


----------



## wali

I have to say despite my skepticism, this thing is simply brilliant. I feel like I'm listening to a pair of high quality speakers.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say despite my skepticism, this thing is simply brilliant. I feel like I'm listening to a pair of high quality speakers._

 

I really think the skepticism comes from a plugin or 'effect' that is putting a lot of people off simply trying it. If it were hardware with a price tag and had this many positive reviews people would be all over it.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really think the skepticism comes from a plugin or 'effect' that is putting a lot of people off simply trying it. If it were hardware with a price tag and had this many positive reviews people would be all over it._

 

Well they can continue to hate. We'll just have to enjoy it for them.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really think the skepticism comes from a plugin or 'effect' that is putting a lot of people off simply trying it. If it were hardware with a price tag and had this many positive reviews people would be all over it._

 

My sentiments as well


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Silenced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THANK YOU! This was the only thing holding me back from going for a Mac. One question is running it through wine a big strain on resources? Sorry for going off topic._

 

After you load all the components you notice a slight delay loading Foobar, which is slightly longer than in Windows, but because Wine is only running the one program I don't think it really effects the rest of the system too badly. At least I haven't noticed any adverse effects.


----------



## Flognuts

I thought for music 2 channels was the best. Whats the point in creating surround sound for a 2 channel source by adding an echo? I mean it sounds alright but 2 channels sounds much more crisp IMO


----------



## Napilopez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I've played around with FreeSurround this past week and have come back to my preferred Channel Mixer setup; some thoughts..

 With FreeSurround & Dolby headphone between 100-200%
 • FreeSurround adds more of an echo to the rear, giving the illusion of a larger soundstage.
 • Sound is back to being dominantly from the rear, center channel even at max setting is not prominent enough.
 • Crossover of front in rear and vice versa doesn't allow for proper musical separation.

 It is difficult to switch between channel mixer and freesurround but I will point out when re-enabling channel mixer you must select your profile again otherwise it reverts to default without your knowledge.

 I'd be interested to hear from other Ultrasone users on what you prefer and your headstage experience, where exactly you are placed in the music._

 

This is interesting, because that's what I feel about channel mixer O.o might be dependent on your hardare setup, I suppose =P Channel mixer sounds more echo-ey with music that free-surround, precisely the reason I switched =P


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought for music 2 channels was the best. Whats the point in creating surround sound for a 2 channel source by adding an echo? I mean it sounds alright but 2 channels sounds much more crisp IMO_

 

Give it a try before you formulate any preconceived conclusions.


----------



## Flognuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give it a try before you formulate any preconceived conclusions._

 

I did. 

 I'll give it another shot, do you guys select dynamic compression in dolby headphone?


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Napilopez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is interesting, because that's what I feel about channel mixer O.o might be dependent on your hardare setup, I suppose =P Channel mixer sounds more echo-ey with music that free-surround, precisely the reason I switched =P_

 

Yeah it could well be, I've said before how Dolby alone sounds like its coming from the back of the room while others said it was seemingly emitting from the front. Well in the hydrogen forum where the dsp was posted it mentioned echo in rear with stereo music which I know not to be the case with channel mixer because turning off the front channels you hear only voice or instrument etc. 

 What channel mixer does on my setup is place me in the middle of 5 speakers, I like not having front and rear mixed up which I find allows for better positioning... something I don't think possibly with freesurround?


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did. 

 I'll give it another shot, do you guys select dynamic compression in dolby headphone?_

 

No dynamic compression. Keep in mind the correct order is DTS, Channel Mixer/Free Surround, then Dolby.


----------



## JAChichorro

Is DTS actually needed in DPS chain? There doesn't seem to be any difference between DTS-MM-Dolby HP and just MM-Dolby HP with FLAC and MP3 files.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is DTS actually needed in DPS chain? There doesn't seem to be any difference between DTS-MM-Dolby HP and just MM-Dolby HP with FLAC and MP3 files._

 

The DTS is required for the 5.1 Surround Test File from lynnemusic.com not for stereophonic files.


----------



## owenhan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought for music 2 channels was the best. Whats the point in creating surround sound for a 2 channel source by adding an echo? I mean it sounds alright but 2 channels sounds much more crisp IMO_

 

After comparing FreeSurround with regular stereo on several tracks the sound is definitely much sharper and crisper without FreeSurround but not in a way that I like. Some instruments come off as a little harsh and intrusive. Also when disabling FreeSurround it feels like a vortex has suddenly sucked all the instruments to a point inside my head. Overall I really like the warmth and space that FreeSurround brings. After switching it off music just sounds unnatural to me.


----------



## santsant

waow,, what a nice effect on my Ultrasone pro2500


----------



## Flognuts

Free surround is defiantly better than channel mixer, much more clearer. 

 Free surround takes a bit of the edge of these ad900's, while keeping its clarity, still undecided whether its better than normal 2ch but its growing on me. 

 I got amplification @ 200% with no DTS is this right?

 what are your free surround and dolby headphone setting?


----------



## fenixdown110

I still have the DTS in my list. The center is set at 0.5 and the Dolby amplifier is at 150%.


----------



## noparanoia

Sorry if this has been asked already (I really cant face reading all 18 pages). I have Headroom Ultra Micro Amp and DAC. How does Headroom crossfeed effect this set up? Should I turn it off? Or is there something in the settings I should change to take this into account? Thanks


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really think the skepticism comes from a plugin or 'effect' that is putting a lot of people off simply trying it. If it were hardware with a price tag and had this many positive reviews people would be all over it._

 

You're absolutely right. 

 I think you need a lot of credit for this and I recommend everyone to give it a try. Especially Xonar XTS/ST owners, because the headphone amp of that card is unlistenable without crossfeed, but this plug-in takes it a step further and widens the soundstage (which automatically extends the highs) while bringing forward the vocals and tightening the bass... how it does it, i don't know and i don't care... thanks!


----------



## adrift

Been messing around with Free Surround and trying to A/B it with Channel Mixer and Frank Zappa's Apostrophe' 5.1. Not very easy to do really. Anyways. Free Surround does sound more vibrant... I wouldn't say clearer, but definitely more vibrant. I'm assuming at least part of that has to do with turning up the amplification in the Headphone Wrapper to 200% which I'm guessing will make audio sound clearer since its louder. My problem is trying to figure out if the surround sound layout is more accurate with Free Surround. I really can't tell. The spacing feels better. Certain instruments and vocals seem closer or further away and the effect _seems_ more realistic (again with 200% amplification which I'm sure has more than a little to do with it), but I simply can't tell if they're in the proper place and that bugs me a little. I'm just not experienced enough to make a proper judgment.


----------



## Headdie

After a "surround" high, I'm coming back to stereo listening and it's good. Dolby HP gives you soundstage, but you loose timbre and details. It's a hard to do tradeoff.

 Funny enough, I have twice the same CD of Billy Cobham (a DTS version and a stereo version). I like it better with Upmix (FS or CM) than the DTS version...

 Now, I understand that ATsurround supercedes FreeSurround. Does anyone can tell us if it's a better 3D processor ?

 Also, does anybody can tell how FS/CM + DolbyHP compares to OSS/3D or OzoneMP ?

 I'm planning a come back to surround headphone, but it has to be better than CM + DolbyHP.


----------



## pro_optimizer

MusX pointed me to this thread.

 There had been some questions on the various surround processors available in FB2K. I am the last person you should believe in this regard since I wrote one of them (FreeSurround), but I'll try to be honest nevertheless. What all of them do is _determine the position of any source around the listener_, according to a matrix coding specification.

 While doing so, FreeSurround does not change the volume of any source (and therefore does not color the sound by itself). Like the others, it has three main effects: first, a center speaker is introduced into front rendering. In Dolby Headphone, all speakers are of equal quality, and thus, that helps clarity. Second, some sources (such as echos), are spread over the sound field, including the listener's rear (called "magic surround" in Dolby's recording manual). These are not added/amplified, but just moved. Third, sources with spatial cues (set during recording/mixing via pan-and-rotate units) are placed at their appropriate locations around the listener -- but only select albums contain such sources. The sliders can further move and transform the sound field around the listener (e.g. dimensions shifts it forward or backward), which allows to be inside the stage at some settings (even if it is normally in front of the listener) -- this is the effect that most of you are looking for, I presume.

 Channel Mixer decodes according to the exact same specification, and therefore gives all the same effects. It has the dimension slider, too: called front in rear -- only that here, the stage is not moved but copied (and that it's active by default). The same things hold for ATsurround (plus that ATsurround has it's own headphone mode in addition). The only real difference of the three is the type of decoder being used. Channel Mixer uses a Dolby Surround-type decoder (a "passive decoder"), ATsurround uses a Dolby ProLogic I-type decoder (an "active decoder"), and FreeSurround uses a Dolby ProLogic II-type decoder. See this interview with Jim Fosgate (who created several decoders) on these matters. The differences between decoders (spatial accuracy, clarity, locality) can be snooped out by playing back a matrix-encoded channel test file, attached.


----------



## mlantinen

Just wanted to thank the OP. This is a really nice change of pace from the stereo listening. I'm really enjoying the added clarity of the vocals and instrumental definition. At first I thought it would be more fatiguing but so far so good. 

 I use foobar for surround music listening and media player for stereo listening. Both are pinned right next to each other on my toolbar. 

 Love'n it! 

 On a side note, quite a freak'n challenge (for me anyway) to find a theme that works with Foobar2000 1.0 and windows 7, etc, yada yada. Talk about plugins. I'd find one that I think will work, but then the album art won't show up or something else wacky will happen. But finally found one that works.... or at least works for the most part.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pro_optimizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MusX pointed me to this thread.

 There had been some questions on the various surround processors available in FB2K. I am the last person you should believe in this regard since I wrote one of them (FreeSurround), but I'll try to be honest nevertheless. What all of them do is determine the position of any source around the listener, according to a matrix coding specification.

 While doing so, FreeSurround does not change the volume of any source (and therefore does not color the sound by itself). Like the others, it has three main effects: first, a center speaker is introduced into front rendering. In Dolby Headphone, all speakers are of equal quality, and thus, that helps clarity. Second, some sources (such as echos), are spread over the sound field, including the listener's rear (called "magic surround" in Dolby's recording manual). These are not added/amplified, but just moved. Third, sources with spatial cues (set during recording/mixing via pan-and-rotate units) are placed at their appropriate locations around the listener -- but only select albums contain such sources. The sliders can further move and transform the sound field around the listener (e.g. dimensions shifts it forward or backward), which allows to be inside the stage at some settings (even if it is normally in front of the listener) -- this is the effect that most of you are looking for, I presume.

 Channel Mixer decodes according to the exact same specification, and therefore gives all the same effects. It has the dimension slider, too: called front in rear -- only that here, the stage is not moved but copied (and that it's active by default). The same things hold for ATsurround (plus that ATsurround has it's own headphone mode in addition). The only real difference of the three is the type of decoder being used. Channel Mixer uses a Dolby Surround-type decoder (a "passive decoder"), ATsurround uses a Dolby ProLogic I-type decoder (an "active decoder"), and FreeSurround uses a Dolby ProLogic II-type decoder. See this interview with Jim Fosgate (who created several decoders) on these matters. The differences between decoders (spatial accuracy, clarity, locality) can be snooped out by playing back a matrix-encoded channel test file, attached._

 

wow. great information pro_optimizer. thanks! So I think the question everyone wants answered is... which one is the best.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow. great information pro_optimizer. thanks! So I think the question everyone wants answered is... which one is the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You'll just have to trust your own ears for that one. I prefer Free Surround.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pro_optimizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MusX pointed me to this thread.

 There had been some questions on the various surround processors available in FB2K. I am the last person you should believe in this regard since I wrote one of them (FreeSurround), but I'll try to be honest nevertheless. What all of them do is determine the position of any source around the listener, according to a matrix coding specification.

 ..._

 

Brilliant, thank you for your input. I'll have a listen to the test files and post back later. I also plan to update the initial post with the optional decoders and give my review of each.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlantinen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wanted to thank the OP. This is a really nice change of pace from the stereo listening. I'm really enjoying the added clarity of the vocals and instrumental definition. At first I thought it would be more fatiguing but so far so good._

 

Yeah it's not at all fatiguing, quite the oposite as your breaking out of the traditional left-right placement which is unnatural.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll just have to trust your own ears for that one. I prefer Free Surround._

 

yeah... that's probably the correct answer. I just hope my ears are honest with me is all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Using the test file that pro_optimizer attached it seems to me that Free Surround is further from the ears in space. The separation between front and back is obvious, but not dramatic. 

 Channel Mixer is much closer sounding to the ears with the front coming more from the sides than directly in front of me (Free surround isn't directly in front either, but its spaced far enough away so that its less noticeable). The difference between Channel Mixer front and back is very noticeable with the back speakers seemingly coming from almost behind the head. There's less separation between back left and back right as there is in Free Surround. 

 Channel Mixer is bolder sounding. A more dramatic effect that really heightens the feel of speakers around the head. But Free Surround sounds accurate with its great sound separation. I wish I could have the best of both really.


----------



## Flognuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're absolutely right. 

 Especially Xonar XTS/ST owners, because the headphone amp of that card is unlistenable without crossfeed,_

 

whats the difference with OP's setup and just pressing dolby headphone on the xonar audio center?


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whats the difference with OP's setup and just pressing dolby headphone on the xonar audio center?_

 

Big difference. the xonar audio setup dolby headphone, not only sounds muffled, there is background hiss, the high and low extensions are shortened and basically it sounds unnatural and unpleasant.


----------



## wali

Just to add one one tip:

 Anytime the channel mixer is removed from active DSP location and when you reload it, it reverts to its default. so make sure when you load channel mixer, go to its profile section and load the original OP setting that you had saved as profile. 

 I think this is the reason some of you are unhappy with channel mixer.


----------



## Flognuts

Thanks ^^^^

 So I got 

 DTS decoder
 Free surround - center channel at 50% as recommended by fenix 
 Dolby Headphone - amplification 200%

 sounds pretty good. I find 80% on center channel spaces things out a bit too much


----------



## Napilopez

I wish there were a way to automatically sort out settings for each track XD.

 I haven't read every single post in the thread, but definitely more than 75% of them, and I have seen little to no mentions about messing with the Dolby Room presets. Personally, I prefer the "Live Room" preset, as with the others vocals sound too echo-ey/veiled. Reference Room is quite nice for instrumental tracks, and nothing beats the overall expansiveness of soundstage in the "Movie Theater" preset.

 I prefer live room overall though, because at least to my ears and cans, it sounds the most natural, and I can adjust the soundstage using Free Surround however I want. For some fun though, try Free Surround with all the sliders maxed, and DH on Movie Theater and 200% amplification. Then listen to a track with interesting separation or panning, like the first minute of "Stranger in Moscow" by michael jackson. The expansiveness of the soundstage is ridiculous! Shame Movie theater mode muddies the sound so much.

 Here are my regular settings. I find they give me almost the same clarity of vocals, while still giving me a way better soundstage. I'm trying to get myself to not mess anymore; I actually found these settings by randomly moving the sliders! XD


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Napilopez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish there were a way to automatically sort out settings for each track XD.

 I haven't read every single post in the thread, but definitely more than 75% of them, and I have seen little to no mentions about messing with the Dolby Room presets. Personally, I prefer the "Live Room" preset, as with the others vocals sound too echo-ey/veiled. Reference Room is quite nice for instrumental tracks, and nothing beats the overall expansiveness of soundstage in the "Movie Theater" preset.

 I prefer live room overall though, because at least to my ears and cans, it sounds the most natural, and I can adjust the soundstage using Free Surround however I want. For some fun though, try Free Surround with all the sliders maxed, and DH on Movie Theater and 200% amplification. Then listen to a track with interesting separation or panning, like the first minute of "Stranger in Moscow" by michael jackson. The expansiveness of the soundstage is ridiculous! Shame Movie theater mode muddies the sound so much.

 Here are my regular settings. I find they give me almost the same clarity of vocals, while still giving me a way better soundstage. I'm trying to get myself to not mess anymore; I actually found these settings by randomly moving the sliders! XD_

 

You didn't read enough then. This has been discussed already, but you've arrived at the same conclusion as some of us. We prefer the Live Room as well.


----------



## Napilopez

Really? XD Seems I missed it! =P


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You didn't read enough then. This has been discussed already, but you've arrived at the same conclusion as some of us. We prefer the Live Room as well._

 

I prefer DH1 which is a dry room. DH2 has added echo and reverb to represent a medium size room and DH3 a larger room.


----------



## Graphicism

Playing around with Channel Mixer & Free Surround I loaded up a song most should have: Protection, Massive Attack.

 Using *Channel Mixer* Bass and drums start out predominantly front center, synthasizer _(wowwow)_ joins in FR & FR and 22 seconds in the piano joins in at the back of the room RL, RR and at 40 seconds singing starts center stage.

 With *Free Surround* it is projected back more, there is less of a center channel ascendancy and the piano seemingly comes from the sides, there is no predominant rear. Dolby Headphone at 200% amplification creates clipping distortion.

 In all I personally find a more immersed sound from Channel Mixer because of the rear speakers, Free Surround is wider left-right but I originally set out to move away from that, I suppose I can see why others prefer it coming from headphone listening.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefer DH1 which is a dry room. DH2 has added echo and reverb to represent a medium size room and DH3 a larger room._

 

I compared DH1 and 2 again with the newest addition of Free Surround and I have to agree with you now.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Playing around with Channel Mixer & Free Surround I loaded up a song most should have: Protection, Massive Attack.

 Using *Channel Mixer* Bass and drums start out predominantly front center, synthasizer (wowwow) joins in FR & FR and 22 seconds in the piano joins in at the back of the room RL, RR and at 40 seconds singing starts center stage.

 With *Free Surround* it is projected back more, there is less of a center channel ascendancy and the piano seemingly comes from the sides, there is no predominant rear. Dolby Headphone at 200% amplification creates clipping distortion.

 In all I personally find a more immersed sound from Channel Mixer because of the rear speakers, Free Surround is wider left-right but I originally set out to move away from that, I suppose I can see why others prefer it coming from headphone listening._

 

I had the same issue with Free Surround. The center channel was blending in due to the left/right overdominance of 200% amplification. I fixed it by turning the center up and easing the amplification by 25%. I may reduce it to 150% after I do a bit more listening. Either way, this makes the center more prominent and more natural sounding.


----------



## MusX

amplification 200% is to much for me, 150% enough.
 testing most of the settings and maxing free surround sliders works very interesting, really. 
 what if freesurround would have a much longer slinders?


----------



## owenhan

I've heard people usually use the WASAPI plugin with foobar, anyone know if I can use it at the same time as this? Running Win7 32bit.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *owenhan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard people usually use the WASAPI plugin with foobar, anyone know if I can use it at the same time as this? Running Win7 32bit._

 

Some folks including myself were having issues with WASAPI and Win7 with this layout. I'm not certain what I did to resolve the issue I was having, but I finally got it working on my home PC running Win7 64bit.


----------



## fenixdown110

I had issues with wasapi as well. I just ended up using ASIO.


----------



## owenhan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had issues with wasapi as well. I just ended up using ASIO._

 

Ok so I downloaded the ASIO plugin and added Creative ASIO to Playback->Output->ASIO Virtual Devices without changing any of the settings like Channel Map and latency. Should everything be working now? Oh I also set my output device to Creative ASIO. Also is there any difference between 'DS: Primary Sound Driver' and 'DS: Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi)'?


----------



## MusX

there is a new version of dolby wrapper for foobar:
Dolby Headphone Wrapper DSP - Hydrogenaudio Forums
 nothing necessary, just informing you


----------



## Headdie

Yesterday, I did a quick compare between,

 FreeSurround > Dolby Headphone Wrapper

 and

 FreeSurround > George VST Wrapper > VST Dolby Headphone Wrapper

 With the same settings, I would have expected the same sound, but it wasn't the case. Please, tell me I am mistaken...

 Could simple wrappers change the sound ?

 Both wrappers link to the same Dolby dll...


----------



## dongringo

After about a week dinking around with FreeSurround, I went back to Channel Mixer. While I like FreeSurround with some tracks, it sounded pretty jacked up on others. For instance, Porcupine Tree - Arriving Somewhere but Not Here: The picked guitar would move from right to left then back so suddenly the brief moment it was in the left didn't even sound like a guitar. It sounded like a machine of some sort and was too distracting to even listen to. No matter what I did to the mix I couldn't alleviate this problem. I tried to get it to crosstalk to no avail. While listening to Sigur Ros - Takk the drums were so washed out they didn't even sound like drums. Once again they sounded like something else all together. I was able to fix this problem somewhat, but then the next thing I would listen to would need to be adjusted back. With Channel Mixer, while it doesn't have the seemingly wider soundstage, I can at least get enjoyment out of just about everything I listen to with it. So my vote is with Channel Mixer.


----------



## pro_optimizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After about a week dinking around with FreeSurround, I went back to Channel Mixer. While I like FreeSurround with some tracks, it sounded pretty jacked up on others. For instance, Porcupine Tree - Arriving Somewhere but Not Here: The picked guitar would move from right to left then back so suddenly the brief moment it was in the left didn't even sound like a guitar. It sounded like a machine of some sort and was too distracting to even listen to. No matter what I did to the mix I couldn't alleviate this problem. I tried to get it to crosstalk to no avail. While listening to Sigur Ros - Takk the drums were so washed out they didn't even sound like drums. Once again they sounded like something else all together. I was able to fix this problem somewhat, but then the next thing I would listen to would need to be adjusted back. With Channel Mixer, while it doesn't have the seemingly wider soundstage, I can at least get enjoyment out of just about everything I listen to with it. So my vote is with Channel Mixer._

 

dongringo - 

 this is the level of feedback that I've been hoping for since 2007...
 When does that happen in the Porcupine track? Also, what track in the Sigur Ros album shows that?


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pro_optimizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dongringo - 

 this is the level of feedback that I've been hoping for since 2007...
 When does that happen in the Porcupine track? Also, what track in the Sigur Ros album shows that?_

 

The PT track ASBNH builds slowly until Steven Wilson starts a sweeping picking technique which is constant until the heavy section 2/3 the way through. After the heavy section, which sounds fine, the picking starts up again throughout the rest of the song. The problem is during this sweeping guitar picking technique. While transferring from the right to left channels, the mid doesn't stay in the left channel long enough to resonate, thus it doesn't sound like the pluck of a guitar string and doesn't have time to sustain. With my limited knowledge of sound reproduction, this is the only way I can explain it. As far as Sigur Ros - Takk is concerned, I listened to tracks 6 and 8. The drums were way too recessed, not so with Channel Mixer, and sounded so muffled I couldn't make out the tones and the snare didn't sound anything like a snare.

 There are aspects of FreeSurround I am already missing, but unless it's improved upon, I'll stick with Channel Mixer for now.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## adrift

Anyone ever experience errors in Foobar2000 that go along the lines of something like this: 
_Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 48000 Hz / 24-bit / 4 channels (0x107)_
 I've had issues with WASAPI in Win7 before, and most of those issues seemed sorted out, but every now and then on certain recordings I get an error that reads something similar to this on certain sections of certain songs. Not the whole song, just certain parts of a song. There's at least one Beatles song I have this experience with and just now I was listening to a band called KillingTheOldMan and experienced it again about half way through the first track. Its very annoying and I could probably fix it by flipping back to ASIO or dropping down to 16 bit, but I'm wondering if there's another, easier answer to my predicament.


----------



## dongringo

The only time I've seen that error message was when I paused a song and proceeded to add/change some DSP plugins. When I hit Play after all the changes I got that message, but never again after that. You might want to do a clean foobar install and start over. Not sure though.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only time I've seen that error message was when I paused a song and proceeded to add/change some DSP plugins. When I hit Play after all the changes I got that message, but never again after that. You might want to do a clean foobar install and start over. Not sure though._

 

Hmm. Maybe so. It seems to me that I've seen similar error messages on my other install on my work computer, but I can't be sure.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone ever experience errors in Foobar2000 that go along the lines of something like this: 
Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 48000 Hz / 24-bit / 4 channels (0x107)
 I've had issues with WASAPI in Win7 before, and most of those issues seemed sorted out, but every now and then on certain recordings I get an error that reads something similar to this on certain sections of certain songs. Not the whole song, just certain parts of a song. There's at least one Beatles song I have this experience with and just now I was listening to a band called KillingTheOldMan and experienced it again about half way through the first track. Its very annoying and I could probably fix it by flipping back to ASIO or dropping down to 16 bit, but I'm wondering if there's another, easier answer to my predicament._

 

Same here, but it's only for a few flac files. The rest of them are fine. I haven't changed anything. It doesn't have that issue for lossy files.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, but it's only for a few flac files. The rest of them are fine. I haven't changed anything. It doesn't have that issue for lossy files._

 

Hate to say it, but glad to know I'm not the only one. It's happened to me with a few flac files and, so far, one song on one CD.


----------



## fenixdown110

It's strange since foobar is the only player that has this problem.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's strange since foobar is the only player that has this problem._

 

Well I'm not running through WASAPI in any other player so I wouldn't know. Do you have WASAPI running through something like Winamp?


----------



## artforme

Wow, this thread is amazing. Great information.

 Will this technique work with any DAC? I'm new to the audio world, and just ordered a DAC/Amp combo, but I'm interested in maintaining the surround sound. 

 I'm on a Mac right now, but will try this next time I boot into windows. How imperative is having a "s-logic" or similar surround sound headphones to the experience?


----------



## JAChichorro

This should be stickied.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *artforme* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, this thread is amazing. Great information.

 Will this technique work with any DAC? I'm new to the audio world, and just ordered a DAC/Amp combo, but I'm interested in maintaining the surround sound. 

 I'm on a Mac right now, but will try this next time I boot into windows. How imperative is having a "s-logic" or similar surround sound headphones to the experience?_

 

I don't see why this shouldn't work with any DAC. Its software based, not hardware based. The only issue I could see is someone using some sort of nice DAC with surround sound built into it already, but I'm assuming there'd be an option to turn that off if you wanted to use this method. Also, as I explained a couple pages ago, you can now try this on a Mac as well as PC. Finally, I don't think its imperative at all to be using s-logic headphones with this setup. Again, this is software driven, not hardware driven. I imagine you'd actually see issues using surround sound headphones and using a surround sound DSP, but it appears that Graphicism does use Surround Sound Ultrasones with this so who knows...


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JAChichorro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This should be stickied._

 

youre not the only one who feels that way


----------



## verteqz

I just tried this and well... someone is not going back to stereo.


----------



## artforme

Thanks adrift! That helps. I just ordered the LD DAC_II, looking forward using it with this method.


----------



## GungaDin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *razmajazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Another DSP toy to play with, not related to Dolby Heapdhone but I use them together, is Noise sharpening (foo_dsp_delta). Thread is here: I heart foo_dsp_delta! and download is here: foo_dsp_delta. I like the ER4P type highs it delivers -- really nice for vocals and accoustic music but YMMV. Be careful setting it too high though -- I use 35%._

 

Thank you. I've been listening to a lastFM stream @ 128 through foobar using this very cool 5.1 setup. Putting Noise Sharpening at the beginning of the DSP chain improved the sound immensely. It makes the low quality stream much easier to listen to. Also, the DH2 setting is the way to go. I've also got the Advanced Limiter at the end of the DSP chain along with "apply gain" in the Playback section. Very nice.

 A big thank you to Graphicism for posting this.


----------



## RedSky0

^^ Just tried it with my HD600s and it sounds great. Tested it out with a Cryptopsy track and it definitely makes a sizeable difference. Agree 35% is probably a good level, beyond that it gets a bit piercing in some tracks.


----------



## GungaDin

Yeah, I've been sticking to the 35% level and that works very well. I also turned the Dolby Headphone down to 75%. I'm just amazed at how great this sounds, especially with a lowly 128 stream. I'm listening to some ambient stuff and the pan effects and soundstage are wonderful and have great clarity without being harsh.


----------



## Flognuts

WOW - I absolutely hated it, but now with noise sharpening it has made it sound so much more natural...actually its now amazing! it was the missing key IMO.

 Noise Sharping - 35%
 DTS Decoder
 Channel mixer - center 100% - Rear 200% everything else 0%
 Dolby Headphone - Reference room - 85% amplification (*whats everyone got this on? is live room better*) *I think 100% amplification too much?*


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW - I absolutely hated it, but now with noise sharpening it has made it sound so much more natural...actually its now amazing! it was the missing key IMO.

 Noise Sharping - 35%
 DTS Decoder
 Channel mixer - center 100% - Rear 200% everything else 0%
 Dolby Headphone - Reference room - 85% amplification (*whats everyone got this on? is live room better*) *I think 100% amplification too much?*_

 

Interesting settings. A little forward. What headphones, DAC and amp?

 USG


----------



## Flognuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting settings. A little forward. What headphones, DAC and amp?

 USG_

 

xonar stx with ad900's, what would you reccomend differently?


----------



## GungaDin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flognuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW - I absolutely hated it, but now with noise sharpening it has made it sound so much more natural...actually its now amazing! it was the missing key IMO.

 Noise Sharping - 35%
 DTS Decoder
 Channel mixer - center 100% - Rear 200% everything else 0%
 Dolby Headphone - Reference room - 85% amplification (*whats everyone got this on? is live room better*) *I think 100% amplification too much?*_

 

I agree. The Noise Sharpening makes a huge difference. I set it between 30% and 45% depending on the source. Lower works better for streaming lower bit rates. 

 I've been setting the Dolby amplification between 50% and 75%. Too high and it seems to get a little boomy and hot.

 I had the DH2 "live room" setting for streaming and that sounded good but it seemed to be a bit distorted with FLAC files so I went back to DH1 "reference room."


----------



## MaN227

the skippyrich site seems down or gone. can someone please help out and upload this file for others who want to try this out. thanks, the file is : *foo_channel_mixer.zip*

 TIA


----------



## Junliang

Did anyone tried this for gaming ?
 For steam games, from valve like TF2, does it works ?


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Junliang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone tried this for gaming ?
 For steam games, from valve like TF2, does it works ?_

 

good luck finding the hardware/plug-ins to enable your games to work on the 5.1 set-up. And even if you somehow miraclelessly do, good luck trying to enable everything from the main menu of your game into foobar mode. lol, it's not gonna happen bro. Just get a decent sound card like the HT Omega Striker, 5.1 becomes an ez within a few clicks. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaN227* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the skippyrich site seems down or gone. can someone please help out and upload this file for others who want to try this out. thanks, the file is : *foo_channel_mixer.zip*

 TIA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

type 'foo_channel_mixer.zip' on google and watch the magic unravel itself !


 edit: After a long listen to FreeSurround(which i find to be more prominent in the soundstage) I decided to go back to Channel Mixer =\.

 I gotta agree with the OP and a few other users about that whole artificial rear echo. IMO, FreeSurround gives excellent center sound spectrum, it's just that details/separation tend to be more brighter and harsher sounding. some low quality tracks worked well on it, it just didn't provide that needed channel balance to make 5.1 appropriate for my music preferences. 

 Channel Mixer makes it indistinguishable balanced, relaxing and a bit less fatiguing. Vocal and bass seem to respond more accurately too IMO + I don't have to worry about getting paranoid on which Dolby Headphone Amplification setting i wanted to use. 200% had more realism;but felt it was making the tracks over-bright and i noticed some clipping, some-what same situation on 150%... I just didn't feel like getting my money's worth(even tho this is a free program 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Now i can leave it 100% (80-90% is also great) without getting any clipping or whatsoever. That Noise Sharpening is an excellent tool ! At times, it would sound as if the artist' was singing in their live stage voice and it is really noticeable if you listen carefully. 

 I also got Wasapi to work under Win7 and have my output set to 24 bit and it does seem to make a slight incremental improvement !


----------



## wali

I have a confession to make, its really embarrassing but what the heck...

 The other day I noticed that all this time I had not linked dolbyhph.dll to the dolby headphone plugin in foobar! Dolby headphone was in the dsp and since foobar v1.0 does not notify like previous version that dolbyhph.dll needs to be linked, so i was basically using the channel mixer with the OP's configuration ONLY!

 all my praise and the improvement in sound that i had experienced and still do was due to channel mixer!

 anyway, remove dolby headphone from dsp, only keep channel mixer with OP's config and report if you notice any difference in sound.


----------



## A.Thorsen

I came into this somewhat skeptical simply because I'm a bit of a "less is more" person when it comes to headphones.

 In other words, I'm leery of any post processing or any other "gimmicks" and such.

 That being said: I really do like the way this setup sounds and I'm doing some back and forth A/B on Foobar between this setup and without DTS, Channel Mixer, and Dolby Headphone set to DH1 and you can definitely hear a significant difference going back and forth.

 I simply haven't decided yet which way I like more.


----------



## Napilopez

I must say, as much as the SQ suffers... Maxing out all the sliders on free surround and using the Movie theater preset in DH is mighty fun. Sound stage is scarily ridiculously huge. It's what I use to show off to friends XD.


----------



## Xcelcio

Been lurking for sometime....
 Registered because of this post lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried it and was amazed at how capable is the virtualization. Not sure I'll keep it though.
 I'll admit that the soundstaging is mindblowing, but I just love clarity and crispiness. And these effects sacrifice both of em.
 Love it or hate it I guess.

 And I haven't seen this mentioned so just to add something to those who like this effects.
 This will add Subwoofer behind you to make your aural-sex truly 5.1 instead of 5.0
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tick the "Subwoofer" and "Bass redirection" in the Subwoofer tab to ON.
 And make sure you Tick the LFE channel.
 Play around with the options and sliders till you reach eargasm.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (too lazy to explain, and besides YMMV lol)

 Back to lurking..........


----------



## GungaDin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcelcio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll admit that the soundstaging is mindblowing, but I just love clarity and crispiness. And these effects sacrifice both of em._

 

Try putting the Noise Sharpening plugin at the beginning of the DSP chain. That brings back the clarity and IMO really improves the sound.


----------



## iHelp

Hey guys;

 I downloaded everything. I just can't see the 2 decoders and the channel mixer...


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iHelp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys;

 I downloaded everything. I just can't see the 2 decoders and the channel mixer..._

 

You have to move them over to the active DSP's. Refer to the first page.


----------



## malalol

This is mighty awesome! I'm currently using Free Surround and Dolby at Live room setting. Channel mixer is good as well, I think it provides better 3D depth to the soundstage, but it's a bit forward for my taste. Just configured the FS and I'm not changing anything for a couple of days! Changing back to non-processed stereo is just plain aggressive!

 I just love how the soundstage gets generous and musical. There's a tiny bit of timbre change and some "colored veil" but the soundstage change is much worth it, it's mind blowing. I also love how the bass has it's identity increased on the mix

 I won't play with the settings too much for now. I'll focus on the music! Listening through HD595 out from my Realtek onboard chip. My D4 Mamba is sitting somewhere in China 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder what the DAC would do to this setting... if it would get clearer and better or maybe reveal the drawbacks of the software processing?

 Okay ninja edit: I got back to DH1 - Reference Room because the timbre change got very evident on Piano Jazz like Hiromi.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malalol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is mighty awesome! I'm currently using Free Surround and Dolby at Live room setting. Channel mixer is good as well, I think it provides better 3D depth to the soundstage, but it's a bit forward for my taste. Just configured the FS and I'm not changing anything for a couple of days! Changing back to non-processed stereo is just plain aggressive!

 I just love how the soundstage gets generous and musical. There's a tiny bit of timbre change and some "colored veil" but the soundstage change is much worth it, it's mind blowing. I also love how the bass has it's identity increased on the mix

 I won't play with the settings too much for now. I'll focus on the music! Listening through HD595 out from my Realtek onboard chip. My D4 Mamba is sitting somewhere in China 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder what the DAC would do to this setting... if it would get clearer and better or maybe reveal the drawbacks of the software processing?

 Okay ninja edit: I got back to DH1 - Reference Room because the timbre change got very evident on Piano Jazz like Hiromi._

 

Welcome to the cult.... er I mean club.


----------



## SiRuI

I've been using this for a while and here are my thoughts on channel mixer settings.

 My settings differ from OP's in three ways:
 1. I don't use *Surround *up-mix before DH Wrapper; I use *Copy*.
 2. I use a *sub-woofer*.
 3. I use *4.1* channels.

 Rationals:
 1.1 Dolby Headphones simulates speakers and calculates room reflection for you, so in a sense it is already surround if you give it a stereo source. If you up-mix a stereo source to a 5.0 surround, and DH takes the sound and calculate reflection again, don't you think the sound will be "surrounded twice"? The result will be loss of details. The solution is quite simple: just use Copy instead Surround in Channel Mixer. Let rear channels simply copy front channels.
 1.2 This is a bit hard to explain. After processing DH creates a muddy sound, with pronounced bass. If, however, you enable sub-woofer and set Bass redirection frequency to around 70Hz, the pronounced bass is magically gone, and sound becomes clear again. It is possible DH is so designed that lower bass should come from .1 channel instead of 5.
 1.3 If a center channel is used, the sound becomes less stereophonic. How about this: 2 front, 2 rear, and a sub in the middle. Rear copies front, but with less volume so that it moves sound stage forward.

 Procedures:
 Use 4.1 channels (6 without center)
 Mode: Copy
 Rear Volume: 0.62-0.71
 Use subwoofer; Bass redirection; Frequency: 70
 Everything else remains default.
 DH Wrapper: Whatever you like.
 (Channel Mixer setting file *attached* for your convenience; use setting import)

 Result:
 Forget about stereo. I use DH.


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SiRuI* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using this for a while and here are my thoughts on channel mixer settings.

 My settings differ from OP's in three ways:
 1. I don't use *Surround *up-mix before DH Wrapper; I use *Copy*.
 2. I use a *sub-woofer*.
 3. I use *4.1* channels.

 Rationals:
 1.1 Dolby Headphones simulates speakers and calculates room reflection for you, so in a sense it is already surround if you give it a stereo source. If you up-mix a stereo source to a 5.0 surround, and DH takes the sound and calculate reflection again, don't you think the sound will be "surrounded twice"? The result will be loss of details. The solution is quite simple: just use Copy instead Surround in Channel Mixer. Let rear channels simply copy front channels.
 1.2 This is a bit hard to explain. After processing DH creates a muddy sound, with pronounced bass. If, however, you enable sub-woofer and set Bass redirection frequency to around 70Hz, the pronounced bass is magically gone, and sound becomes clear again. It is possible DH is so designed that lower bass should come from .1 channel instead of 5.
 1.3 If a center channel is used, the sound becomes less stereophonic. How about this: 2 front, 2 rear, and a sub in the middle. Rear copies front, but with less volume so that it moves sound stage forward.

 Procedures:
 Use 4.1 channels (6 without center)
 Mode: Copy
 Rear Volume: 0.62-0.71
 Use subwoofer; Bass redirection; Frequency: 70
 Everything else remains default.
 DH Wrapper: Whatever you like.
 (Channel Mixer setting file *attached* for your convenience; use setting import)

 Result:
 Forget about stereo. I use DH._

 

Where have you been all my life? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, I'm really digging this setup...bass...clarity...etc. The only thing I'm not sure about is the 4.1. I keep switching back and forth between 5.1 and 4.1 and it seems that 5.1 brings out too much mid and 4.1 is too little. But I decided to leave it at 4.1 for a couple days to see if my ears get used to it. All in all very impressive. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## upstateguy

Tried your settings....I think, by bringing the vocals forward with the copy setting, you loose some of the depth with those settings. 

 I have the LF off, everything else on default. Dolby Headphone on ref. room. I find this gives the best 3 dimensional sound. 

 USG


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where have you been all my life? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, I'm really digging this setup...bass...clarity...etc. The only thing I'm not sure about is the 4.1. I keep switching back and forth between 5.1 and 4.1 and it seems that 5.1 brings out too much mid and 4.1 is too little. But I decided to leave it at 4.1 for a couple days to see if my ears get used to it. All in all very impressive. Thanks for sharing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I concur. I have the same feelings about 4.1 lacking mids and 5.1 having too much. It was a pretty simple fix. You still enable the center channel for 5.1, but under upmix, turn the center channel down to 0.05-0.15 depending on your own preferences. To increase depth that is lost from bring the vocals forward, use the DH2 Dolby Headphone setting and turn the amplification to 200%.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SiRuI* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using this for a while and here are my thoughts on channel mixer settings.

 My settings differ from OP's in three ways:
 1. I don't use *Surround *up-mix before DH Wrapper; I use *Copy*.
 2. I use a *sub-woofer*.
 3. I use *4.1* channels.

 Rationals:
 1.1 Dolby Headphones simulates speakers and calculates room reflection for you, so in a sense it is already surround if you give it a stereo source. If you up-mix a stereo source to a 5.0 surround, and DH takes the sound and calculate reflection again, don't you think the sound will be "surrounded twice"? The result will be loss of details. The solution is quite simple: just use Copy instead Surround in Channel Mixer. Let rear channels simply copy front channels.
 1.2 This is a bit hard to explain. After processing DH creates a muddy sound, with pronounced bass. If, however, you enable sub-woofer and set Bass redirection frequency to around 70Hz, the pronounced bass is magically gone, and sound becomes clear again. It is possible DH is so designed that lower bass should come from .1 channel instead of 5.
 1.3 If a center channel is used, the sound becomes less stereophonic. How about this: 2 front, 2 rear, and a sub in the middle. Rear copies front, but with less volume so that it moves sound stage forward.

 Procedures:
 Use 4.1 channels (6 without center)
 Mode: Copy
 Rear Volume: 0.62-0.71
 Use subwoofer; Bass redirection; Frequency: 70
 Everything else remains default.
 DH Wrapper: Whatever you like.
 (Channel Mixer setting file *attached* for your convenience; use setting import)

 Result:
 Forget about stereo. I use DH._

 

This is amazing. It beats out the Free Surround setup I was using before. It's much more clear and detailed. The separation is just awesome and bass detail is in your face.


----------



## Brandon7s

Ok, I'm having trouble with the Dolby Headphone wrapper. I see no DSP called Dolby Headphone that I can move to active. I have the all the files where they need to be, according to the first post. Is there some trick to getting Dolby Headphone to show up in the list?


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I concur. I have the same feelings about 4.1 lacking mids and 5.1 having too much. It was a pretty simple fix. You still enable the center channel for 5.1, but under upmix, turn the center channel down to 0.05-0.15 depending on your own preferences. To increase depth that is lost from bring the vocals forward, use the DH2 Dolby Headphone setting and turn the amplification to 200%.


 This is amazing. It beats out the Free Surround setup I was using before. It's much more clear and detailed. The separation is just awesome and bass detail is in your face._

 

Mmmm Fix. Thanks fenix. I'll give that a try after work.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brandon7s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I'm having trouble with the Dolby Headphone wrapper. I see no DSP called Dolby Headphone that I can move to active. I have the all the files where they need to be, according to the first post. Is there some trick to getting Dolby Headphone to show up in the list?_

 

Nope, there shouldn't be. Do you have Channel Mixer listed in your DSPs but just not DH? Are you sure you put them in the correct folder?


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I concur. I have the same feelings about 4.1 lacking mids and 5.1 having too much. It was a pretty simple fix. You still enable the center channel for 5.1, but under upmix, turn the center channel down to 0.05-0.15 depending on your own preferences. To increase depth that is lost from bring the vocals forward, use the DH2 Dolby Headphone setting and turn the amplification to 200%.


 This is amazing. It beats out the Free Surround setup I was using before. It's much more clear and detailed. The separation is just awesome and bass detail is in your face._

 

Gave dongringo's twist a try. Sounds nice. Your suggestion of turning DH amplification all the way up is going to always produce noticeable results, I think, though (which is not a bad thing in my book). 

 I'm starting to get confused with all the options we have now. I can't help but wonder if what my ears are hearing is more accurate and better sounding or if I'm just psyching myself out half the time.  Still, I suppose too many options is far better than none at all. I'd start a poll to see what the consensus is on the different variations, but I don't think we'd get enough people to vote.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gave dongringo's twist a try. Sounds nice. Your suggestion of turning DH amplification all the way up is going to always produce noticeable results, I think, though (which is not a bad thing in my book). 

*I'm starting to get confused with all the options we have now. I can't help but wonder if what my ears are hearing is more accurate and better sounding or if I'm just psyching myself out half the time. * Still, I suppose too many options is far better than none at all. I'd start a poll to see what the consensus is on the different variations, but I don't think we'd get enough people to vote._

 

Just a thought:

 Might you not assume that the various developers of these surround plugins tuned their default settings for best sound and maximum effect?

 After trying every configuration that has been posted and experimenting on my own, I keep returning to the basic default settings, except for the bass, which I regulate by unchecking the LF box or reducing the SUB to 10%. 

 I also found the use of the surround plugins to be headphone specific, as I get my best results with my 701s, which have an enormous sound stage to start with and welcome the additional bass (which they are able to deliver very clearly). It's a much different situation with my 650s, so I do not use them this way.

 I found that the copy setting was essentially the same as increasing the center to 1.25 from the default settings.

 The other thing I should mention is that I normally listen at a level low enough to benefit from a little "Fletcher-Munson and that YMMV if you're cranking it up.

 USG


----------



## A.Thorsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GungaDin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try putting the Noise Sharpening plugin at the beginning of the DSP chain. That brings back the clarity and IMO really improves the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

^^ While messing around, I agree that everyone should try this plug in. 

 Use the default settings at the beginning of the thread and then add this, leave it at default 100 percent, and put it first in the food chain like GungaDin here suggests. 

 From there you can gradually mess around as you want, but I really am happy with what Noise Sharpening brings to the table. See what you all think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Right now, my Foobar is the following DSPs in this order: Noise sharpening, Advanced Limiter, Resampler (PPHS), Crossfader, Crossfeed, DTS Decoder, Channel Mixer, Dolby Headphone DH1 100 percent. 

 The DSPs discussed in this thread are set as suggested in the first post, Noise Sharpener and the rest of those at their defaults. Resampler is at 96000Hz Ultra Mode.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gave dongringo's twist a try. Sounds nice. Your suggestion of turning DH amplification all the way up is going to always produce noticeable results, I think, though (which is not a bad thing in my book). 

 I'm starting to get confused with all the options we have now. I can't help but wonder if what my ears are hearing is more accurate and better sounding or if I'm just psyching myself out half the time.  Still, I suppose too many options is far better than none at all. I'd start a poll to see what the consensus is on the different variations, but I don't think we'd get enough people to vote._

 

Start a poll. I'd be interested in the turn out. You'd be surprised how many would vote. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the perception of what sounds best depends on the music being played. I find that my setting excels in orchestrated pieces that demand a lot of instrument separation. It worked pretty well for rock, pop, and jazz, although vocal pieces and rap it's slightly more deficient in.


----------



## Graphicism

Having listened too and experimented with every variant suggested I have to conclude that each subtle change in DH + multiple speaker positioning is most definitely headphone dependent.

 My original settings of 100 front and 200 rear work really well with Ultrasones, however turning off center and lowering the rear works slightly better with my RX700s... a less congested sound, something that doesn't occur with the 780s.

 I'd suggest rather than a poll users post their individual settings along with a single headphone and perhaps musical preference. From this we might be able to find a pattern and in turn suggest settings for each headphone... perhaps even offing a CH Mixer download for each headphone.


----------



## A.Thorsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having listened too and experimented with every variant suggested I have to conclude that each subtle change in DH + multiple speaker positioning is most definitely headphone dependent.

 My original settings of 100 front and 200 rear work really well with Ultrasones, however turning off center and lowering the rear works slightly better with my RX700s... a less congested sound, something that doesn't occur with the 780s.

 I'd suggest rather than a poll users post their individual settings along with a single headphone and perhaps musical preference. From this we might be able to find a pattern and in turn suggest settings for each headphone... perhaps even offing a CH Mixer download for each headphone._

 

I'd love to see what you think of the Noise Sharpening plug-in and how it interacts with the rest of your settings. For me, so far, Noise Sharpening at a 100 percent made all the difference in the world with your recommended default settings back in the first post of this thread.

 Please check it out when/if you get a chance and let us know what you think.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having listened too and experimented with every variant suggested I have to conclude that each subtle change in DH + multiple speaker positioning is most definitely headphone dependent.

 My original settings of 100 front and 200 rear work really well with Ultrasones, however turning off center and lowering the rear works slightly better with my RX700s... a less congested sound, something that doesn't occur with the 780s.

 I'd suggest rather than a poll users post their individual settings along with a single headphone and perhaps musical preference. From this we might be able to find a pattern and in turn suggest settings for each headphone... perhaps even offing a CH Mixer download for each headphone._

 

I agree. Is a new thread needed? This one is all cluttered and off topic somewhat now since it wasn't intended for discussion. This was originally supposed to be a setup thread introducing people to it.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *A.Thorsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to see what you think of the Noise Sharpening plug-in and how it interacts with the rest of your settings. For me, so far, Noise Sharpening at a 100 percent made all the difference in the world with your recommended default settings back in the first post of this thread.

 Please check it out when/if you get a chance and let us know what you think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Noise Sharpening plug-in is simply a V-shape EQ which will add attack to the treble, something the Ultrasones certainly do not need. Furthermore after listening it's +DB which distorts the crash of a symbol or further adds to the shrill of a high pitched voice.

 Save your current Foobar preset and load in noise-sharpening.feq in place of your current Noise Sharpening plug-in to hear for yourself.






 If you find this EQ is something your headphones need I suggest Auto Level.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. Is a new thread needed? This one is all cluttered and off topic somewhat now since it wasn't intended for discussion. This was originally supposed to be a setup thread introducing people to it._

 

I don't think we need a new thread, plus discussion keeps it bumped up for people to find. Just post headphone/music and setup, once we get a few and perhaps start to see a pattern I'll update the OP.


----------



## A.Thorsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Noise Sharpening plug-in is simply a V-shape EQ which will add attack to the treble, something the Ultrasones certainly do not need. Furthermore after listening it's +DB which distorts the crash of a symbol or further adds to the shrill of a high pitched voice.

 Save your current Foobar preset and load in noise-sharpening.feq in place of your current Noise Sharpening plug-in to hear for yourself.






 If you find this EQ is something your headphones need I suggest Auto Level._

 

Yup, you're right. I don't think my setup "needs" this V shape.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think we need a new thread, plus discussion keeps it bumped up for people to find. Just post headphone/music and setup, once we get a few and perhaps start to see a pattern I'll update the OP._

 

Alright. I guess I'll start.

 HD-650
 Classic Rock/Orchestra/Instrumental
 Original setup/5.1/Copy/Dolby 200% amplification


----------



## A.Thorsen

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ho...ration-361251/

 Graphicism and others: Have you ever tried this setup out for a spin to compare and contrast what's been suggested in this thread? I'd love to see your thoughts when/if you do or did.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *A.Thorsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ho...ration-361251/

 Graphicism and others: Have you ever tried this setup out for a spin to compare and contrast what's been suggested in this thread? I'd love to see your thoughts when/if you do or did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have, and its actually mentioned someplace in this thread. I don't think it really holds its own with Graphicism's tweak and the other tweaks brought up here. In fact, on the last page of that thread satshanti admits: "after having played WITH VI in the chain for over a year, I now have decided to use just Dolby Headphone WITHOUT VI".


----------



## A.Thorsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have, and its actually mentioned someplace in this thread. I don't think it really holds its own with Graphicism's tweak and the other tweaks brought up here. In fact, on the last page of that thread satshanti admits: "after having played WITH VI in the chain for over a year, I now have decided to use just Dolby Headphone WITHOUT VI"._

 

Indeed you are correct.


----------



## Forbin

i can't thank you enough for this guide. seriously. i listen to lots of live phish shows and this guide has transformed my listening experience from simply listening to the shows at home to actually being there again. thank you so much.


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I concur. I have the same feelings about 4.1 lacking mids and 5.1 having too much. It was a pretty simple fix. You still enable the center channel for 5.1, but under upmix, turn the center channel down to 0.05-0.15 depending on your own preferences. To increase depth that is lost from bring the vocals forward, use the DH2 Dolby Headphone setting and turn the amplification to 200%._

 

I did this and listened that way for the last couple days and it's perfect. For the first time I really can't hear anything wrong with it. The only thing I couldn't do was amplify DH 200% due to distortion issues.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dongringo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did this and listened that way for the last couple days and it's perfect. For the first time I really can't hear anything wrong with it. The only thing I couldn't do was amplify DH 200% due to distortion issues._

 

I don't have distortion here. It could be due to the individual headphone as well. I'm on the HD-650. Glad to hear that it works for you as well though.


----------



## Graphicism

... Try this channel mixer profile — surround-3.xml





 — With Dolby DH1 at 100%


----------



## malalol

So that noise sharpening plug-in is just an v-shaped EQ?

 And what about all that stuff regarding putting noise on the inaudible frequencies? 

 Aren't you confusing noise sharpening (foo_dps_delta) with noise shaping (built in)?


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malalol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So that noise sharpening plug-in is just an v-shaped EQ?

 And what about all that stuff regarding putting noise on the inaudible frequencies? 

 Aren't you confusing noise sharpening (foo_dps_delta) with noise shaping (built in)?_

 

I used Noise Sharpening (foo_dsp_delta) 1.0.0
 - The only option with the plugin was noise 0 - 200 - I set it at 100 which matched the EQ.


----------



## jeepdad

Help please I cant get the mixer to show up in available dsp's I have the rest. What am I doing wrong


----------



## Graphicism

Did you place the channel mixer dll in the foobar components folder and restart foobar?


----------



## jeepdad

yes it doesn't show up I've tried it several times in firefox and ie


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jeepdad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes it doesn't show up I've tried it several times in firefox and ie_

 

You'll find the foobar components folder most likely in My Computer/Program Files/foobar2000/components. Place the dll there.

 I'm not sure what you are doing with firefox or ie, but it's not where you need to be.


----------



## jeepdad

I know where the components folder is I have already downloaded the other plug ins I just can't get the mixer to go I even tried this one 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... Try this channel mixer profile — surround-3.xml





 — With Dolby DH1 at 100%_


----------



## dongringo

Hmmm that's really strange. Sorry about your ordeal.


----------



## jeepdad

could it be called something besides mixer


----------



## dongringo

It's called Channel Mixer in the DSP chain.


----------



## jeepdad

I think it's been changed its no longer a zip file and its not working for me on xp. The file now is called foo_channel_mixer.7z (windows 7 maybe) I found another link to the old zip but I got an error in foobar aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh


----------



## fenixdown110

I had this exact same problem when I was reformatting my computer and resetting foobar. The foo_channel_mixer.7z won't work. You need the dll file. You can download the proper version which is included in this foobar component pack.
http://www.deviantart.com/download/155159875/Foobar2000_Component_MEGAPACK_by_Gerguter.zip

 Hope this helps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can also email an attachment to whoever needs it as well. Just let me know.

 @Graphicism: It's time to update the foo_channel_mixer.dll link.


----------



## jeepdad

so do I unzip that huge file in the components folder

 Try again tommorrow


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jeepdad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so do I unzip that huge file in the components folder

 Try again tommorrow_

 

No. Unzip somewhere else and drag the foo_channel_mixer.dll into the components folder only. Just because it has numerous dll's doesn't mean you need to use every single one.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jeepdad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so do I unzip that huge file in the components folder

 Try again tommorrow_

 

Simply download foo_channel_mixer.7z a 7-Zip file, unzip with winzip/winrar and place foo_channel_mixer.dll in the foobar components folder. Start foobar, move the channel mixer over to active DSP.

 Link works fine for me, not sure what I need to update?


----------



## jeepdad

Thank you that worked I haven't used winzip before, that must have made the difference. Thanks again


----------



## Graphicism

Great to hear! ~ Let us know what you think of the mod once you've had a chance to familiarize yourself with it.


----------



## Trysaeder

What is the active dsp?


----------



## Graphicism

Foobar > File > Preferences > Playback > DSP Manager - shows list of available DSPs, simply drag them over to Active DSP to configure and use.


----------



## Trysaeder

Thanks for responding so quickly, I didn't see the branches.


----------



## jeepdad

Wow this is a really cool tool. Thanks for putting this info up and thanks for the help. I will def. be playing with this!


----------



## fenixdown110

There's over a dozen different settings to play around with. Have fun.


----------



## Napilopez

A long time ago when I first started using this setup, someone told me that this effect only gets better with a better setup. I was somewhat skeptical, as I thought it would reveal more flaws. But to heck it IS better! My panasonic HJE900s sound absolutely incredible with this setup(though I'm using free surround), especially after messing with the settings and some EQing. I almost want to cry at the aural beauty XD. With my other headphones, I did feel like I might be losing a bit of something. But with these, perhaps because they are so much faster, I feel like I can catch so many things I wasn't noticing with them before I turned on Graphicisms setup, and soundstage is just giving me that "out of head" experience thats especially hard to find with IEMs, because heck, they ARE in your head. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Napilopez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A long time ago when I first started using this setup, someone told me that this effect only gets better with a better setup. I was somewhat skeptical, as I thought it would reveal more flaws. But to heck it IS better! My panasonic HJE900s sound absolutely incredible with this setup(though I'm using free surround), especially after messing with the settings and some EQing. I almost want to cry at the aural beauty XD. With my other headphones, I did feel like I might be losing a bit of something. But with these, perhaps because they are so much faster, I feel like I can catch so many things I wasn't noticing with them before I turned on Graphicisms setup, and soundstage is just giving me that "out of head" experience thats especially hard to find with IEMs, because heck, they ARE in your head. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

haha. what a cool post. I don't know how many times I throw on my HD650s (or even my cheapo Grados) and I'm constantly and honestly surprised by the sound coming out. Its such an enjoyable experience.


----------



## yaang

I really like it but i've also tried Dolby Pro Logic II it sounds better imo but couldn't get it to work with foobar.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yaang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like it but i've also tried Dolby Pro Logic II it sounds better imo but couldn't get it to work with foobar._

 

Did you ever see this: Dolby Pro Logic II wrapper

 I have never tried it myself but figure it may be what you are looking for.
 Hope this helps.


----------



## razmajazz

I posted a Guide to Dolby Headphone on your DAP in the Portable Source forum if anyone is interested.


----------



## malalol

I've tried to achieve the same effect using Dolby Pro Logic but I could not. 

 Also the effect is absolutely headphone dependent. The 4.1 setup on Channel mixer sounds wonderful on my HD595, almost no timbre change, out of the head soundstage but upfront presentation, really fun setup for rock and metal. However it sounds absolute crap on my ATH-CKM55. Tried many different setups and the soundstage only gets congested, barely outside my head, and distorted (its in a curve shape, near my ears but far from my nose). These ATH already have outstanding soundstage for IEM at this price, so I'll stick with their stock sound


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malalol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried to achieve the same effect using Dolby Pro Logic but I could not. 

 Also the effect is absolutely headphone dependent. The *4.1 setup *on Channel mixer sounds wonderful on my HD595, almost no timbre change, out of the head soundstage but upfront presentation, really fun setup for rock and metal. However it sounds absolute crap on my ATH-CKM55. Tried many different setups and the soundstage only gets congested, barely outside my head, and distorted (its in a curve shape, near my ears but far from my nose). These ATH already have outstanding soundstage for IEM at this price, so I'll stick with their stock sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Not sure how you have it set up, but try *the default settings* with two small changes. Unclick LF on the first page, but leave it set to 6. Decrease the sub to around 10% on the next page.

 your config should look like this:

 DTS
 CM
 DHP
 Limiter


 Don't remove the center channel or boost its value. Doing that only flattens the sound stage by moving the vocals closer to the plane the left and right channels are in. Think about it.

 The sub channel is also very helpful (especially with my 701s and 880s) and may be decreased but not removed.

 Keep in mind that although there are many tweaks to play with, the developers found the best settings already and used them as their default settings.

 Enjoy.

 USG


----------



## malalol

Yes, I messed around a bit with the controls and found a good solution to the issues I was facing, and this could improve soundstage quality paired with other IEMs.

 Try reducing the rear volume on Upmix tab and watch the horizontal up-frontness be revelead. It is essentinal to remove the inside your body shaking feeling bass and reveal it sitting on your face like glasses, or maybe under your nose but a bit farther. Definitely with better focus and imaging, like a warm analytical improvement.

 I feel kind of an axis in a diagonal lift up, give it a try. Sounds like a 3d rearrangement of the bass perception, and put' em right under the mids and highs, like it should be. It's similar to toe-in adjustment in 2.0 speakers when you're on the sweet spot. 

 Bass propagates in the air differently than highs, because wider sound waves are more omnidirectional than high frequency waves. This DH Headphone engine is pretty good, and the teak is necessary to my CKM-55 indeed. The toe-in brings the bass forward, and the software processing sends it farther!

 The use of supra-auricular headphones like mine H595 sounds better with default settings indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The angled drivers could be a reason why some people love it. 

 But I just ordered an extension cable to use IEMs at home, the rear volume sounds just right at 0.20!

 Kisses dears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.s. I'm having better resolution with H595 as well with this tweak, but left the rear volume at 0.40. The adjustment is needed to match the soundstage distance with bass image distance, which sounds better at 20% on the next tab. _The interactions between upmix and downmix has a horizon height that should be addressed as well._


----------



## ironmine

I use these settings:

 Foobar Active DSPs:

 1. George Yohng's VST Wrapper (+Oxford Sonnox or any other hi-end VST eq to reduce the overall gain by -5 dB)
 2. Channel Mixer (6 channels, Upmix Mode - Copy, Center - 0.85, Subwoofer - 1.0, Rear Volume - 1.0. Subwoofer is on, its volume - 1.0, Bass redirection is on, frequency - 70).
 3. Dolby Headphone, Live Room, Amplification - 1.0.

 Sounds best to me!


----------



## malalol

I'm using DH on Reference Room setting. Live room and further only seems to add echo to me.

 I'm using Electri-Q as well to EQ my headphones, not only to rectify the resonance between my ear channel and the headphones, but to compensate a little loss I have (-1db I guess) at 6K on my left ear. I can clearly notice soundstage resolution improvement with EQ.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malalol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using DH on Reference Room setting. Live room and further only seems to add echo to me.

 I'm using Electri-Q as well to EQ my headphones, not only to rectify the resonance between my ear channel and the headphones, but to compensate a little loss I have (-1db I guess) at 6K on my left ear. I can clearly notice soundstage resolution improvement with EQ._

 

Try FabFilter equalizer. It provides a blacker background (space between instruments) compared to Electri-Q. Electri-Q is more grey in this regard.


----------



## najames

Old dude, new to earphones, foobar2000, and would like to thank the OP for this, very interesting. 

 Maybe tomorrow I can read through all the other posts, looks like a lot of nice information here. So much to learn, so little time!!

 Jim


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *najames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Old dude, new to earphones, foobar2000, and would like to thank the OP for this, very interesting. 

 Maybe tomorrow I can read through all the other posts, looks like a lot of nice information here. So much to learn, so little time!!

 Jim_

 

Welcome to the cult... er, club.


----------



## najames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the cult... er, club._

 

Thanks adrift. As long as I don't have to commit suicide when a comet passes, its nice to be here. I'll apologize now for being a heavy reader and not much of a poster. I read all pages of this thread, and an old AV-710 plus info from this thread has transformed my PC with POS Logitech Z-340s into a decent sounding setup for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I looked through every page of computer system pics for desk ideas and found most people here would throw my equipment in the trash can, but it works for me. My work headphones are $20 Sony MDRV150 from Wally World, an upgrade from my $7 Ratshack specials, hahahaha. I have been buying inexpensive IEMs to try and learn about them. My impressive new selection consists of Marshmallows, MEElectronics M9 & M6, soon Maximo IM-590, and I want something a little more upscale for compairson. I've spent evenings for the last month (?) to get this far.

 I do have a decent home theater setup and several good PCs though.

 Jim


----------



## Graphicism

If you're looking for a good buy Jim checkout JVC HA-RX700 for $33.95 shipped, they work well directly from the AV-710 at reasonable listening volumes... crank the volume up and you'll need an amp.

 Thanks for checking out the Foobar setup, some good info here and on the rest of the site, welcome to head-fi!


----------



## ironmine

After playing with it for several days, I think I found even better settings:

 Foobar Active DSPs:

 1. George Yohng's VST Wrapper (+Oxford Sonnox or FabFilter or any other hi-end VST eq to reduce the overall gain by -6 dB)
 2. Channel Mixer (6 channels, Upmix Mode - Copy, Center - 0.75, Subwoofer - 0.3, Rear Volume - 0.75. Subwoofer is on (all channels), its volume - 1.0, Bass redirection is on, frequency - 80).
 3. Dolby Headphone, Live Room, Amplification - 1.0.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After playing with it for several days, I think I found even better settings:

 Foobar Active DSPs:

 1. George Yohng's VST Wrapper (+Oxford Sonnox or FabFilter or any other hi-end VST eq to reduce the overall gain by -6 dB)
 2. Channel Mixer (6 channels, Upmix Mode - Copy, Center - 0.75, Subwoofer - 0.3, Rear Volume - 0.75. Subwoofer is on (all channels), its volume - 1.0, Bass redirection is on, frequency - 80).
 3. Dolby Headphone, Live Room, Amplification - 1.0._

 

Hi Ironmine

 Could you post some screen shots of your set up?

 USG


----------



## Abstract

Christ this is a long thread - but worth it!

 Anyways I just got foobar installed again and was looking through what settings to use. I have been playing around with all the suggested settings and at the moment I'm gonna try with the following

 DT880 cans with LD-MK III
 Mostly flac files, and listening to rock from soft to the harder stuff.

 Noise Sharpening 100% - made a much larger impact than i thought it would
 DTS decoder
 Channel Mixer - 6 channel, surround mode, center 75, sub 30, rear volume 75, sub enabled volume 1, redirection 60
 Dolby Headphone - reference room 100% amp

 I admit i don't really understand how all the settings work and what they do, I simply used Graphicism's point as reference and created a bunch of presets and have then switched back and forth to try and find what I like the most.

 Anyone else with DT880 I'd love to hear what others are using.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Abstract* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Christ this is a long thread - but worth it!

 Anyways I just got foobar installed again and was looking through what settings to use. I have been playing around with all the suggested settings and at the moment I'm gonna try with the following

 DT880 cans with LD-MK III
 Mostly flac files, and listening to rock from soft to the harder stuff.

 Noise Sharpening 100% - made a much larger impact than i thought it would
 DTS decoder
 Channel Mixer - 6 channel, surround mode, center 75, sub 30, rear volume 75, sub enabled volume 1, redirection 60
 Dolby Headphone - reference room 100% amp

 I admit i don't really understand how all the settings work and what they do, I simply used Graphicism's point as reference and created a bunch of presets and have then switched back and forth to try and find what I like the most.

 Anyone else with DT880 I'd love to hear what others are using._

 

Hi

 Could you post some screen shots of your set up?

 USG


----------



## Abstract

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi

 Could you post some screen shots of your set up?

 USG_

 

I guess, although as i said I'm definitely no expert, so maybe the settings the other guys have come up with are more "correct"

http://www.lyngtoft.dk/Foobar/Capture.JPG
http://www.lyngtoft.dk/Foobar/Capture2.JPG
http://www.lyngtoft.dk/Foobar/Capture3.JPG
http://www.lyngtoft.dk/Foobar/Capture4.JPG


----------



## omniloathe

vote for sticky?


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omniloathe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vote for sticky?_

 

X2


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ironmine

 Could you post some screen shots of your set up?

 USG_

 

Hi USG

 Here's how I did it:

www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_01.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_02.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_03.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_04.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_05.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_06.jpg

 If you own bass-capable headphones like Denons, you may find that the above setup weakens bass too much. In this case, in the Channel Mixer, in the subwoofer settings, choose "leave the sub intact" and reduce the frequency to 30-50 or any other value you like.

 Some people, of course, may prefer "Reference Room" over "Live Room" in the Dolby Headphone settings.


----------



## Abstract

Thanks Ironmine, i was a bit unsure of the vst filter thing you were talking about, I'll try to replicate that in my setup.


----------



## niCe99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi USG

 Here's how I did it:

www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_01.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_02.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_03.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_04.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_05.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_06.jpg
_

 

any download links to the VST and Pro-Q?


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi USG

 Here's how I did it:

www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_01.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_02.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_03.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_04.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_05.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_06.jpg
_

 

Thanks Ironmine, that was very helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 USG


----------



## najames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Graphicism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're looking for a good buy Jim checkout JVC HA-RX700 for $33.95 shipped, they work well directly from the AV-710 at reasonable listening volumes... crank the volume up and you'll need an amp._

 

Thanks, got the JVC HA-RX700 on my head right now, and do like them just using the headphone jack on my work Dell Optiplex 745 (ADI 1983 sound chip), also now 5-1 with Foobar. I also ordered Koss KSC75 and Audio Technica ATH-AD700, both arrive today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't had enough time to really even try my old Rotel pre/Amp yet, clueless on headphone amps and DACs right now. Video stuff at home is currently consuming me when I am not at work.

 Jim


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Abstract* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Ironmine, i was a bit unsure of the vst filter thing you were talking about, I'll try to replicate that in my setup._

 

I use FabFilter to bring the overall level (gain) down by 6 dB to reduce any further clipping. 

 I figured that it is better to reduce the level BEFORE the Channel Mixer and Dolby Headphone because we don't know how they handle the clipped signal during their internal calculations. May be these plugins have some kind of protection against clipping (like FabFilter), or may be they don't. So, in my opinion, it's wise to reduce the volume before them, not after, not to take any chances.


----------



## JxK

I wanted to ask if there's a way to use this setup outside of foobar, ie. watching movies, as they would also benefit from the improved soundstage?


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JxK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to ask if there's a way to use this setup outside of foobar, ie. watching movies, as they would also benefit from the improved soundstage?_

 

I am not really knowledgeable in this movie stuff, but don't VLC and PowerDVD already have an inbuilt surround effect for headphones? I saw such options in their settings.

 Also, I once did in this way: I demuxed the soundtrack (it was 2.0, not 5.1) from a movie, then processed it in foobar with the CH+DH combination, saved it as wav, then added it back to the movie. Then I watched it with headphones. But I am sure there should be a way how to do it more conviniently, "on the fly". I just don't know how to do it.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JxK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to ask if there's a way to use this setup outside of foobar, ie. watching movies, as they would also benefit from the improved soundstage?_

 

There's a thread on rigging MPC Home Cinema player to utilize the same setup. It was also mentioned way back in this thread somewhere.


----------



## dongringo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JxK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to ask if there's a way to use this setup outside of foobar, ie. watching movies, as they would also benefit from the improved soundstage?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/gu...player-405417/


----------



## najames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use FabFilter to bring the overall level (gain) down by 6 dB to reduce any further clipping. 

 I figured that it is better to reduce the level BEFORE the Channel Mixer and Dolby Headphone because we don't know how they handle the clipped signal during their internal calculations. May be these plugins have some kind of protection against clipping (like FabFilter), or may be they don't. So, in my opinion, it's wise to reduce the volume before them, not after, not to take any chances._

 

Thanks for these settings. I had changed mine earlier, thought they were OK until I hooked up my old Rotel RCD-965BX CD player and RC-980BX preamp. 

 1) my foobar settings had vocals sounding like they were 100ft behind the band, this brought them back to the front, the sound is much more in line with the Rotel CD player sound. 

 2) I have one song that is very difficult to tolerate with crappy settings and this is doing a MUCH better job with it now.

 The Rotel setup still sounds better than my AV-710, but this closed the gap considerably.


----------



## ironmine

I tried 5.1 24/96 files through Dolby Headphone, it does not work. If I insert a Sox resampler (96>48 or 96>44) before DH, then it works. It's a pity. Does anybody know any version of Dolby Headphone, or a similar plugin, which can work with 5.1 24/96 files?


----------



## ironmine

Waves plugin bundle has S360 Panner 5.1 and S360 Imager 5.1 plugins which can upmix stereo 2.0 to surround 5.1. 

 Did anyone try to do it and then mix it down back to stereo using Dolby Headphone?

 I am at the office right now and cannot try this combination.


----------



## Damnegy

Hi, 
 I've read this thread all along, and I am really grateful to Graphicism fot his work, and everyone else of course, for trying many other setups. 
 I have to say, the Copy thing in Channel Mixer makes me doubt of the superiority of FreeSurround as I prefered it over Channel Mixer with Surround effect and various settings, though it makes the soundstage deeper, and I managed to have the voices a bit more forward (I prefer this on vocal-based songs).
 So now, I have two main settings (I'll post pictures later), and I am still playing around with these. I precise that I am mainly listening to rock/J-rock, alternative, pop with my ATH-ESW9 out of my Unibody Macbook 13" (and would definitely try that converting thing for portable use when I'll have some space on my HDD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 But I was wondering, I am using the Mac portage of foobar, and do not really know how I could use VSTs... Can anyone help me? (there seem to be really interesting options in VST...)

 Thanks (bringing this thread up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## fenixdown110

Can't wait to try my current settings with my coming new equipment.


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi USG

 Here's how I did it:

www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_01.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_02.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_03.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_04.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_05.jpg
www.ironmine.narod.ru/fun/setup_06.jpg

 If you own bass-capable headphones like Denons, you may find that the above setup weakens bass too much. In this case, in the Channel Mixer, in the subwoofer settings, choose "leave the sub intact" and reduce the frequency to 30-50 or any other value you like.

 Some people, of course, may prefer "Reference Room" over "Live Room" in the Dolby Headphone settings._

 

what if i leave the bass re-direction option unchecked? Would that be the same as choosing 'leave the sub intact' at 30 freq?


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what if i leave the bass re-direction option unchecked? Would that be the same as choosing 'leave the sub intact' at 30 freq?_

 

See explanations here:
Channel mixer and here:
Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer) - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See explanations here:
Channel mixer and here:
Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer) - Hydrogenaudio Forums_

 

thx. 

 I've experimented with this option on and off and they both seemed nearly identical. The bass re-direction with sub intact left to 30 freq prollly sounded a tad bit sharper, but they seemed nearly identical on the bass areas. 

 but let me ask you, you have the frequency range at 80, right? And your cans are Denon D2000, right? So don't you feel the bass is still a bit weak at that freq range?

 My DT990's are already king in bass department... so maybe it would be a wise idea to leave the bass redirection option unchecked? What do you think?

 also, these settings seem a bit better than Graphicsm's settings. As Fenixdown has already mentioned, the bass is in your face and more lively


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but let me ask you, you have the frequency range at 80, right? And your cans are Denon D2000, right? So don't you feel the bass is still a bit weak at that freq range?_

 

No, I don't feel that the bass is weak. It seems alright to me. The bass beast in Denon D2000 needs to be tamed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ My DT990's are already king in bass department... so maybe it would be a wise idea to leave the bass redirection option unchecked? What do you think?_

 

David, all headphones are different. What sounds good to me on my Denon D2000 may not sound good to your ears on your DT990. 

 Also (my advice) - try Isone Pro plugin. It also sounds good and has many settings to mess with.


----------



## fenixdown110

Has anyone seen this?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/is...mputer-473885/

 This is yet another 5.1 simulator that claims to have similar effects as this 5.1 setup. I tried it, but found myself coming right back to this setup. Please give it a try and let us all know what you think.


----------



## ironmine

I've spent some time in the Isone Pro camp but... I am here again.

 I played with some settings and I guess I know now why some people prefer "copy mode" to "surround mode" under the upmix tag in the channel mixer. Probably it's because "rear in front" and "front in rear", when not set to zero, make the sound muddy. I think the Dolby Headphone plugin works better when we feed it with 5.1. material where fronts are fronts and rears are rears and they are not cross-contaminated.

 Here are the surround settings I found good for my Denon D2000:

http://ironmine.narod.ru/fun/cm_dh_surround_01.jpg
http://ironmine.narod.ru/fun/cm_dh_surround_02.jpg
http://ironmine.narod.ru/fun/cm_dh_surround_03.jpg
http://ironmine.narod.ru/fun/cm_dh_surround_04.jpg
http://ironmine.narod.ru/fun/cm_dh_surround_05.jpg

 The sound in this surround mode retains the transparency of the copy mode, but now I can really hear that the front channels are separated from the rear channels because they play different sounds... As a result, the positioning of instruments improve (in my opinion).


----------



## CastanonY

It is a good thing you posted it. I tried it, it is true, it is like the sound is all around you, like it is in your head. Anyway, can we use it to any applications, too, like videos, gaming and such?


----------



## Damnegy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CastanonY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a good thing you posted it. I tried it, it is true, it is like the sound is all around you, like it is in your head. Anyway, can we use it to any applications, too, like videos, gaming and such?_

 

Well, there are some links for videos, and VLC seems to include an option already (just a box to tick, nothing to play with...)
MPC

 I'm quite disappointed my recently purchased AKG K242 sextett does not really like that surround effect... And I tried converting some flac files to some with DSP effect, and it clips a lot, even with ReplayGain settings in converter...


----------



## admbr

Sorry for the epic bump--I just came across this via Google. I've lurked around these forums for a while, but this find (and subsequent question) were what finally got me to register.


 I absolutely *love* this tweak. Have to say I was skeptical, but it really does sound great.

 One thing:

 I have a good amount of music that is 6 channel already, and when the Channel Mixer DSP is applied it overwrites the true 5.1. This isn't a problem when listening to albums, as I can simply toggle the DSP's off, but I'm an avid playlist/mix maker, and it's extremely inconvenient to have to manually load and unload the preset between stereo and 5.1 tracks.

 Would anyone happen to know of a way to assign specific DSP configurations to individual tracks?

 Thanks so much for any help.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *admbr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I have a good amount of music that is 6 channel already, and when the Channel Mixer DSP is applied it overwrites the true 5.1. This isn't a problem when listening to albums, as I can simply toggle the DSP's off, but I'm an avid playlist/mix maker, and it's extremely inconvenient to have to manually load and unload the preset between stereo and 5.1 tracks.

 Would anyone happen to know of a way to assign specific DSP configurations to individual tracks?

 Thanks so much for any help._

 

I guess you just have to use Dolby Headphone alone (without Channel Mixer) in both cases (2.0 and 5.1 input material), if you don't want to turn the Channel Mixer on and off between tracks.


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've spent some time in the Isone Pro camp but... I am here again.

 I played with some settings and I guess I know now why some people prefer "copy mode" to "surround mode" under the upmix tag in the channel mixer. Probably it's because "rear in front" and "front in rear", when not set to zero, make the sound muddy. I think the Dolby Headphone plugin works better when we feed it with 5.1. material where fronts are fronts and rears are rears and they are not cross-contaminated._

 

I certainly agree about no front in rear and no rear in front! For months I had been happily using my channel mixer settup under Windows XP, but two weeks ago I switched to running Windows 7 Professional 64. The sound was different and, while not really terrible, was not the wonderful clear sound that I was used to.

 The problem was that after reinstalling everything in Windows 7 I was back to the default channel mixer settings!

 Also, as I think I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, for me it is important to check "Add low freqs".


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lavcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I certainly agree about no front in rear and no rear in front!_

 






 The thing is just revolutionary! It brings the headphone listening to a new level of pleasure and experience. It's like going from 2D to 3D. I consider it a technological breakthrough of great magnitude. It's amazing how few people know about it or care about it. 

 Do you think we are going to see the CM+DH processing in DACs, either as in-built modules or add-on DSPs, any time soon?


----------



## Lavcat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 The thing is just revolutionary! It brings the headphone listening to a new level of pleasure and experience. It's like going from 2D to 3D. I consider it a technological breakthrough of great magnitude. It's amazing how few people know about it or care about it. 

 Do you think we are going to see the CM+DH processing in DACs, either as in-built modules or add-on DSPs, any time soon?_

 

Why pay for hardware when thanks to kind and selfless people foobar and CM are free?

 I should clarify that while I have the Dolby Headphone plugin installed in foobar and would be happy enough using it, for most of my music listening I prefer Channel Mixer followed by CMSS-3D Headphone, rather than Dolby Headphone. I run CMSS-3D Headphone at a setting of about 20-30%. I also almost always use EAX Effects (at -6.0 dB), changing the preset depending on the recording or the type of music.

 Though if I am playing properly recorded music (e.g. binaural) I remove all effects and go straight bitmapped (as I am with Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 at the moment)!

 Maybe someday we will be able to get a sticky for this thread. Thanks again to Graphicism for starting it, and to everyone who has contributed.


----------



## admbr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess you just have to use Dolby Headphone alone (without Channel Mixer) in both cases (2.0 and 5.1 input material), if you don't want to turn the Channel Mixer on and off between tracks._

 

Ah, bummer. I think there's a thread about converting tracks so that they play with these settings natively; guess I'll look into that.

 Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Graphicism

Cheers guys!
   
  This is evolving quite nicely, with additional tweaks, settings and personal preferences. Who knows, perhaps one day we could see this built into headphones, kinda like the s-logic of Ultrasone, some see as a gimmick while others can't live without it. It is nice we can achieve this for free but I wonder how much better a hardware version could be; I imagine separate knobs for depth, height and position ~ all of which can be fine tuned with along with your personal setup to place you perfectly either in the music, or directly in front of it.


----------



## Edwood

I have the Victor / JVC SU-DH1 and it's a very nice budget alternative to the Smyth Research Realiser.
   
  I also have the Astro A40 system, but it has a pretty poor implementation of Dolby Headphone.  Not nearly as good as your Foobar setup, nor the SU-DH1.  But it does standard analog inputs.  And because it's designed to mix in headset sound from games and stereo input, it works quite well with SU-DH1 as well.
   
  -Ed


----------



## fenixdown110

I'm sure there will be even further tweaks as more plugins are developed.


----------



## Edwood

Would be awesome to get Dolby Headphone as a plug in for Media Player Classic, etc.
   
  -Ed


----------



## Shike

Quote:


edwood said:


> Would be awesome to get Dolby Headphone as a plug in for Media Player Classic, etc.
> 
> -Ed


   
  Judging by the Foobar DH plug-in I'm guessing the results would be worse than the hardware solutions available.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote: 





edwood said:


> Would be awesome to get Dolby Headphone as a plug in for Media Player Classic, etc.
> 
> -Ed


 

 There's a thread on how to do that here somewhere.


----------



## Edwood

Quote: 





fenixdown110 said:


> There's a thread on how to do that here somewhere.


 

 Sweet, I'll have to search for that one later.  Always like playing around with the different Virtual Surround Sound systems. 
   
  -Ed


----------



## J.Pocalypse

I can't get the .ac3 file to play.. (Unsupported file format) message. On my regular .flac files though, everything sounds a bit more open.. I think I like it.


----------



## yugiyao

Quote: 





			
				J.Pocalypse said:
			
		

> I can't get the .ac3 file to play.. (Unsupported file format) message. On my regular .flac files though, everything sounds a bit more open.. I think I like it.


 
  Download ac3 decoder put it into foobar2000's directory.
   
  hope this will help.
   
  Cheerz


----------



## yugiyao

@Graphicism 
   
  nice guide though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  cheerz


----------



## J.Pocalypse

Quote: 





yugiyao said:


> Download ac3 decoder put it into foobar2000's directory.
> 
> hope this will help.
> 
> Cheerz


 

 Indeed it did. Thanks much.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

1 word....WOW...
   
  it really change the soundstage and placement of the whole music.......
   
  after listen with the surroound effect for a while then change to the normal one, I am missing a sound from the rear...song become so flatt......
   
  niceee...


----------



## ironmine

Cooly One, try also Isone Pro - especially its stereo plugin, because its surround plugin sounds worse, in my opinion, than the CM+DH combo mentioned in this thread. My personal order of preference:
   
  1. Isone Pro stereo (great, amazing)
  2. CM+DH (ok, but the sound is too boxy and kind of hollow)
  3. Isone Pro surround (not good, the sound is congested and the rears are way too loud)


----------



## CooLy_oNE

^^ what do you mean? is that a program? or a foobar plug in? what is it for?


----------



## CooLy_oNE

@Ironmine
   
  I have downloaded the dll file..what should I do with it?


----------



## ironmine

Use these dll through a VST wrapper.


----------



## ironmine

Has anybody tried this thing: http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/


----------



## CooLy_oNE

It seems like to volume for the center on the channel mixer need to set less than 1 to make the sound as if coming from speaker in front of you...
   
  anybody experienced this?


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote: 





cooly_one said:


> It seems like to volume for the center on the channel mixer need to set less than 1 to make the sound as if coming from speaker in front of you...
> 
> anybody experienced this?


 

 Yes. It's been discussed before. I have the center on 0.05 right now.


----------



## Lavcat

Has anyone tried playing with the Channel Mixer Invert setting for rear channels?


----------



## hannyjuca

When the output levels are the same, the difference is negligible between using this complicated setup or dolby headphone alone, not even close to that water to wine some claimed it to be. Just ABX for yourself.
   
  It's a simple test to make, but in case someone can't figure it out all you need to do is to convert the same original file twice, using the foobar converter.
  On the first file you'll apply this complicated setup on the DSP chain, and on the second file you'll just apply Dolby Headphone.
  It's preferable to set amplification at 90%, to avoid clipping that could change the sound between the two.
  After you have the two files, ReplayGain TrackGain them, and ABX.
   
  Dolby Headphone is really fantastic, just feed it something from mono to 5.1 and it'll make the magic happen, It's as they say, the simpler the best.
   
  Edit: Actually the useless channel mixer will probably make the output file clip at 90%, so maybe setting the dolby headphone amplification to 75% will be even better for the test.
   
  Edit 2: Actually channel mixer has it's uses, just not for headphones.


----------



## hannyjuca

Well, it looks like I was wrong, I can actually easilly ABX the two files when listening to more carefully.
  It's not that big of a difference, but it's there.


----------



## 12thgear

Quote: 





edwood said:


> I have the Victor / JVC SU-DH1 and it's a very nice budget alternative to the Smyth Research Realiser.
> 
> I also have the Astro A40 system, but it has a pretty poor implementation of Dolby Headphone.  Not nearly as good as your Foobar setup, nor the SU-DH1.  But it does standard analog inputs.  And because it's designed to mix in headset sound from games and stereo input, it works quite well with SU-DH1 as well.
> 
> -Ed


 

  
  I find my A40 indispensable for gaming, mediocre for movies, and I don't even bother with music. I'm still tempted to get an SU-DH1 assuming its movie performance is more natural. Do you find the SU-DH1's headphone amp more capable than the A40's as well?


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Has anybody tried this thing: http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/


 

 Update: I found this thing and tried it and I like Isone Pro Stereo better.


----------



## JxK

I tried the op's settings, and then proceeded to play around with it a bit. The stereophonic effect is nice, certainly, but there's a major caveat here. For some reason it seems to throw off the natural timbre of the instruments a bit. It is extremely difficult to qualify or quantify timbre, but something simply sounds off. It's not as distinguishable with vocals for instance, but with instrumental works the difference is relatively obvious.
   
  For me I suppose I'll stick to b2sb for most music. It seems to muffle the highs slightly, but the difference is very minor (with cmoy setting), and the benefits of the crossfeed far outweigh the negative. Some recordings benefit less so I might disable b2sb for them, but for others (the vast majority in fact) it's a must with headphone listening.
   
  Just my two cents. And judging from the popularity of this thread, I'll freely admit that I'm likely in the minority here in disliking the 5.1 setup after trying it.


----------



## hannyjuca

Quote: 





jxk said:


> I tried the op's settings, and then proceeded to play around with it a bit. The stereophonic effect is nice, certainly, but there's a major caveat here. For some reason it seems to throw off the natural timbre of the instruments a bit. It is extremely difficult to qualify or quantify timbre, but something simply sounds off. It's not as distinguishable with vocals for instance, but with instrumental works the difference is relatively obvious.
> 
> For me I suppose I'll stick to b2sb for most music. It seems to muffle the highs slightly, but the difference is very minor (with cmoy setting), and the benefits of the crossfeed far outweigh the negative. Some recordings benefit less so I might disable b2sb for them, but for others (the vast majority in fact) it's a must with headphone listening.
> 
> Just my two cents. And judging from the popularity of this thread, I'll freely admit that I'm likely in the minority here in disliking the 5.1 setup after trying it.


 

 JxK, you should really abx the two options. The original file and a file converted using channel mixer and Dolby headphone, both being replaygained to the same levels. That way you can be sure wich one you find more pleasurable to listen to.


----------



## brettie

This sure deserves a bump 
  Efforts much appreciated.


----------



## JxK

Since everyone using this thread is familiar with foobar, I thought it would be a good place to ask a question that is slightly off topic, but still relevant.  Does anyone here know how to change the pan/balance in foobar? With my rockboxed clip it's simple as can be, but for the life of me I can't find the controls in foobar anywhere.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





> Does anyone here know how to change the pan/balance in foobar? With my rockboxed clip it's simple as can be, but for the life of me I can't find the controls in foobar anywhere.


 
   
  Install the VST-chainer application called Console or something similar. Then you will be able to use millions of high-quality VST plugins in Foobar.


----------



## swbf2cheater

tried this today with my ad700s, it worked as promised but the audio quality took a huge dip.  But immersion into the stage increased, a new field of audio coming from the back was pretty awesome.
   
  Shame really the audio quality becomes very poor after it.  But yes, it does work as he said it would.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Shame really the audio quality becomes very poor after it.  But yes, it does work as he said it would.


 
   
  Try HeadFit, the "immersion into the stage", as you put it, is not so strong, but it preserves more details. I found out that IsonePro is good for one type of recordings, while HeadFit is good for other type of recording.


----------



## FEAST

I find that this makes shallow recordings sound deep, and rich/full recordings sometimes sound slightly cloudy, despite the fact that things sound more directional.


----------



## nicolasete

I need some help here.
   
  I have done everything fine but the DTS Decoder i can only see it in the "Found Components" window (Components section), but not in the "Active DSPs" one (playback>dsp manager).
   
  I can't see other DSPs listed here, as Free Surround for instance.
   
  I'm using Foobar2000 1.03


----------



## darkmess

They removed the DTS from being an active DSP and it will only work with v1.1 beta as well. You should update, but that doesn't help either. I don't exactly know what the DTS Decoder does now.


----------



## ear8dmg

Don't forget All, Dolby Headphone is a very capable stereo simulator as well as 5.1.  Most of you wouldn't choose to listen to stereo music upmixed to 5.1 speakers as some soundstaging becomes confused for already well-recorded and mastered material.
   
  Leaving stereo material as stereo and using Dolby Headphone front L+R speakers only can give superb speaker-like presentation with suitable headphones.  For 5.1 material crack on.  It's great that the software option with Foobar works - it's now much better than when I first tried it.
   
  You know that 3d experience you can get, sitting in the sweet spot of decent stereo speaker or nearfield monitors?  It can be recreated.  I've had great results with a lot of music but I'll recommend Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds Best of , Nitin Sawhney (just about anything)  or Queen (Greatest Hits 1, 2 & 3 at least) as being excellent examples of what DH alone can do with stereo material.


----------



## nicolasete

Thanks for the explanation, darkmess.
   
  Don't know if it is because the lack of DTS, but with this config in foobar i get something of a surround sound but not a complete one. The effect i get is similar to this image (the left one being what i should get and the right one being what i'm getting).
   
   

   
   
  I dont know if this is normal or if my config is wrong. (btw, what i'm trying to remark is not the distance to the listener, but the very small distance between front and back channels, and the center channel being completely inside my forehead)
   
   
  About the Dolby Headphone thing, how do you tell the difference between stereo and 5.1 material when talking about audio files? (i mean, just by checking the files, not by hearing to them).  Maybe different formats or something?


----------



## ear8dmg

Nicolasete, have you tried DH2 and DH3? The latter in particular seems to do a good job of placing the front centre speaker in front of me.


----------



## nicolasete

Just did.
   
  The sounds feel a little bit more distant, but still positioned too close to each other (like in the second image). My problem with DH3 is that adds a lot of echo that i dont like for music or movies.
   
   
  I'm starting to wonder if DH sounds the same out of onboard (using DH-compatible programs as powerdvd10 or foobar) and out of any DH-dedicated hardware (like the Essence). I hope thats not the case because i plan on buying an Essence ST and i'm not very impressed with dolby headphone right now.


----------



## ear8dmg

I've found that it's very hardware dependent, at least for headphones and amplification. Some headphones just aren't suited to it.

 Angled drivers and other headstage enhancements are designed to do have some of the same sorts of effects as Dolby Headphone. Using the two together is frequently unpleasant.

 The DLLs that are commonly used for Foobar are quite variable too. There are some poor ones. The hardware implementations I've heard (Xonar D2 and SU-DH1) have been good. The software version with PowerDVD 9 Ultra sounded on.par with them to me The first few software versiopns I heard seemed to make everything rather thin sounding, with less convincing directional sound.


----------



## FEAST

Quote: 





nicolasete said:


> Thanks for the explanation, darkmess.
> 
> Don't know if it is because the lack of DTS, but with this config in foobar i get something of a surround sound but not a complete one. The effect i get is similar to this image (the left one being what i should get and the right one being what i'm getting).
> 
> ...


 
  In my findings the settings that are listed to start off the thread sound very bad.  I have spent a lot of time toying with this and here are the settings I like, and how to fix your problem.
   
  I use the same exact settings as the original thread, except I turn "Rear in front" AND "Front in rear" up to .75 or 1.00 depending on the song.  This has a very dramatic effect.
   
  You can then choose how wide your stereo image is by adjusting your stereoimage width in the general tab.  I use 1.00, but if your image is too wide then move the slider left, and if it is too shallow move it to the right.
   
  If you don't adjust the front in rear/rear in front then your stereo image width control practically does nothing.
   
  I want to re-iterate that setting Rear in Front to 1.00 DRAMATICALLY increases sound staging, separation, and clarity (even at the same volume).  I also boost the low frequencies because my HD570's are light in that department.


----------



## adrift

Quote: 





feast said:


> In my findings the settings that are listed to start off the thread sound very bad.  I have spent a lot of time toying with this and here are the settings I like, and how to fix your problem.
> 
> I use the same exact settings as the original thread, except I turn "Rear in front" AND "Front in rear" up to .75 or 1.00 depending on the song.  This has a very dramatic effect.
> 
> ...


 

 Must be dependent on the headphones, because I just tried this with HD650s and found that, though the sound opens a bit, I start getting distortion moving away from 0 on either channel.


----------



## wdahm519

I'm starting to play around with this.  Great effects, does a lot for the sound!
   
  Thanks, great post. 
   
   
  EDIT:  Yeah, you can really hear the audio quality tank here... the immersion is great but I'm not sure if I can withstand the forces of imperfection!


----------



## Sxy3hw

Hey guys,
   
  Noob here who is completely lost. 
   
  I followed the directions in the first post exactly up till when your suppose to move the DLLs into the active DSPS?.  I just downloaded the latest version of foobar and I can't find a dsp menu anywhere. 
   
  Can anyone help me out?


----------



## Damnegy

Quote: 





sxy3hw said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Noob here who is completely lost.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, 
  It is in the preferences, under the Playback menu, DSP Manager


----------



## BASGTA

This is amazing.  I used to use the Dolby plugin by itself for a year or so, then I bought some quality headphones and found that all bass sounded the same, but now it really opens up the soundstage, I love the "rear speakers"  I'm just messing around with the rear in front and front in rear options now.  Those options seem like they'd be a lot more depended on your audio set up than just a static number.
   
  Another question is does anyone use the dynamic compression on the Dolby's settings?  And which room model do you prefer?


----------



## nagual

My first post here, though I´ve been following this forum  for some time.
  I´m anxious to test the 5.1 headphone effect, but I can´t load the   foo_input_dts in Foobar   "Available DSPs", although it´s been listed in "Components".  I´ve followed the tutorial of the first post, afaik,  so  may be it´s  some kind of software conflict among the .dll,  Asio4all, and  Foobar 1.1, all running in WinXP SP3.
  Any help will be well come !


----------



## googleborg

Quote: 





nagual said:


> My first post here, though I´ve been following this forum  for some time.
> I´m anxious to test the 5.1 headphone effect, but I can´t load the   foo_input_dts in Foobar   "Available DSPs", although it´s been listed in "Components".  I´ve followed the tutorial of the first post, afaik,  so  may be it´s  some kind of software conflict among the .dll,  Asio4all, and  Foobar 1.1, all running in WinXP SP3.
> Any help will be well come !


 


  I have the same issue, am running windows 7 x64, listed in components but not Available DSP...i read it's only working with the last beta of foobar and was disabled in the latest release :/


----------



## Damnegy

I think in the newer version, it has changed : it is not a DSP anymore, it is by default a file format "reader", as any other input you may have (aac input dll, alac input dll, etc.), so it will be used if you want to use a .dts file I guess.
  But correct me if I am wrong !


----------



## nagual

Quote: 





googleborg said:


> I have the same issue, am running windows 7 x64, listed in components but not Available DSP...i read it's only working with the last beta of foobar and was disabled in the latest release :/


 


  Thanks for the heads up.  Search for older version of the dll, but didn´t find it.  Maybe,  Damnegy be right.


----------



## googleborg

Quote: 





damnegy said:


> I think in the newer version, it has changed : it is not a DSP anymore, it is by default a file format "reader", as any other input you may have (aac input dll, alac input dll, etc.), so it will be used if you want to use a .dts file I guess.
> But correct me if I am wrong !


 


  this explains why i could still play the sample 5.1 acs file i guess, thanks


----------



## Nanashi

No, just tried it. it works fine. I guess in the newer versions the DTS is implemented somehow.Test the files channels regardless of whether you can install it like that and you will see that it does in fact play as its supposed to. Hope that helps some.


----------



## tarnishedhalo

I had the same issue of DTS not showing up under DSP's but like others have said the test file played just fine. I thought using foobar with asio4all was a huge improvement over the default setup I had. But WOW.... this really brings out the liveliness in my music so much more so than the included  IDT and XFi crystalizer software. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many thanks OP!


----------



## DarkAura126

I'm sorry, but I can't be bothered to go through 32 pages of this thread to find an answer to my question.  Does this setup help at all with directional sound for gaming?


----------



## nagual

No !


----------



## trident

Is it all possible to get this effect on a portable media player, say the Cowon J3?  I've become so used to it on my computer that I "need" it whenever I listen to music.


----------



## Damnegy

Quote: 





trident said:


> Is it all possible to get this effect on a portable media player, say the Cowon J3?  I've become so used to it on my computer that I "need" it whenever I listen to music.


 


  Well, there are some crossfeed effect on some players (on rockboxed players at least), or you can convert your tracks with foobar and include the DSP effects you want, but won't be able to change the settings (right-click your track(s), go to convert, then ... and choose the DSP settings you wish to include, the format of the file, etc.)


----------



## Wiched

I did it and it works but only with my M-audio delta output, when i run WASABI gives me error Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels


----------



## trident

Quote: 





wiched said:


> I did it and it works but only with my M-audio delta output, when i run WASABI gives me error Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels


 


  Did you reconfigure the "channel mixer" and "dolby headphone" under the processing section?  I realized that the settings weren't correct when I first converted the songs, but it was fixed once I changed the settings.


----------



## Wiched

How exactly did you reconfigure them? Can u give me your settings?


----------



## trident

The same settings as on page 1.


----------



## Wiched

I fixed it i had wrong the order channel mixer and dolby . Thanks


----------



## hannyjuca

Well, after years of playing with countless DSPs trying to find the best results, I ended up with a setup as simple as it can get.
  To me the best Foobar2k DSP chain for headphone listening of stereo music is this:
   
  Convert Stereo To 4 Channels;
  Dolby Headphone (DH2, Amplification 50%, Dynamic Compression Off).
   
  For some time i've used Dolby Headphone alone, because I never tought artificially adding more channels could do any good, because Dolby Headphone is said to create 5 virtual speakers and 1 subwoofer, carefully arranged on a virtual room with the correct dimensions, characteristics, etc, so in theory, with stereo material it should sound as if the surround speakers were simply silent, and you would get sound only from the front left and front right.
   
  But then, using DH alone on stereo files, especially noisy material and modern over compressed recordings, it sounded very congested and incredibly distorted the more instruments were playing at the same time, producing a really harsh sound, especially the guitars and snare drums, sounding almost electronic. Upmixing stereo to 4 channels, simply by copying the front channels to the back, without changing their sound in any way made the sound incredible fuller and realistic, very acoustically sounding, with each instruments being easily dicerned from another, while mantaining the original characteristics of the music.
   
  Let me say that using those simple settings the sound in no way comes from your front, to me it sounds like I'm on the stage with the band, hearing the return monitors and the concert speakers behind me. Anyway, to me it's the best compromisse between surround headphone listening and changing the original sound as little as possible, I like it.


----------



## RexAeterna

if you have a good stereo and amp you don't need surround sound to emulate a perfect stereo image. i can clearly hear things behind me,front,and side and i'm using stereo speakers and headphones. there is no need for surround sound if your headphones and speakers have a nice defined soundstage. i know this first hand cause i had experience with gimmicky 5.1 headsets and none of'em compare to true stereo.

  also if you want true out of your head soundstage with headphones, then try binural(don't if i spelled it correctly) recordings. you'll be amazed and it's much better than doby headphone i think.


----------



## hannyjuca

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> if you have a good stereo and amp you don't need surround sound to emulate a perfect stereo image. i can clearly hear things behind me,front,and side and i'm using stereo speakers and headphones. there is no need for surround sound if your headphones and speakers have a nice defined soundstage. i know this first hand cause i had experience with gimmicky 5.1 headsets and none of'em compare to true stereo.
> 
> also if you want true out of your head soundstage with headphones, then try binural(don't if i spelled it correctly) recordings. you'll be amazed and it's much better than doby headphone i think.


 

  
   
  Look at the thread title please.

  Nobody's talking about speakers, except you.

   

  And I think you meant binaural, wich is exaclty what DH try to emulate, a binaural recording from any stereo content.

  Off course it can't be perfect, since people have different head shapes and sizes, but it's real close if you ask me.

   

  And if you can listen with headphones to old recordings, like the beatles for instance, with extremelly panned instruments, with guitars only on the right channel, and drums only on the left channel, without DH or any kind of crossfeed... Well, good for you, but that experience doesn't please me at all, I'll pass.


----------



## Arctia

I tried this some time ago. Works really well with headphones that don't have much soundstage on their own. Tried it with HD800 and it completely butchered the soundstage.


----------



## ChipnDalebowl

I've used this with mixed feelings.  Its good for orchestral recordings where some surround and reverb are good.  But not every recording benefits from this plugin...some are destroyed by it.  What I really like is with foobar's portable install option, I don't have to go back and forth with when I want the settings on....just open a different instance of foobar.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Well I just find it important to set the "stereoimage width" for Channel mixer and general tab appropriately for every headphone/soundcard/source you're using, 1.0 is too much for me when I'm using kX Audio driver's pseudo surround function so in foobar2000 I have the stereoimage with set to 0.87 and the width is suitably wide. Then I also play around with the volume levels in channel mixer and find for example rear in front and front in rear volume to sound best when set to 0.57 while "center" and "volume" is kept at 1.0 for some reason with my soundcard/driver setup. DH amplification set to 120%.
   
  I think it sounds great for any genre and song I listen to, always brings an improvement although EQ had to be adjusted to balance out what dolby headphone changes, mostly the deep bass, here's my foobar2000 EQ setting to counter the imbalance dolby headphone adds (ie mostly boost to the lowend which I find to mask the fine details in the midrange somewhat and I prefer using soundcard's EQ if needing to EQ):


----------



## loney123

Can someone help me set this up?
   
  I'm on this step:
   
   
  Quote: 





> • Move _DTS decoder_ into Active DSPs above _Dolby Headphone_ and _Channel Mixer_.


 
   
   
  I've added all the dlls into the components folder but the DTS decoder doesn't actually appear on my Available DSPs list. I'm new to foorbar so I must've be doing something wrong. Here's a print screen ( can't seem to attach the image for some reason)
   
  http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2669/dtsh.png
   
  Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

You can try this config, it's already configured, only need to extract it somewhere. However I do encourage to play around with "channel mixer" settings, especially "stereoimage width" in the first tab in the configurations for that plugin to set the width accordinly to your preference/equipment. http://cid-87ed83e2c9fd453c.office.live.com/self.aspx/Public/foobar2000/foobar2000.zip


----------



## edguetzow

Quote: 





loney123 said:


> Can someone help me set this up?
> 
> I'm on this step:
> 
> ...


----------



## edguetzow

I just wanted to update and say I DO have a backup copy of 0.2.8, so my setup is back to normal!


----------



## Damnegy

As I said earlier in this thread, the DTS decoder has become a default component of Foobar in the newer versions, so it does not appear in the DSP because it is already used...


----------



## Graphicism

I've updated the OP to show DTS default with Foobar


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I tweaked the settings a little further and it sounds so amazing for me, every studio recording becomes very natural "live" sounding. No exaggeration, it's just "right", every one step on a slider seems to count and can give  noticable difference, especially if I go above 0.87 on stereo width it starts sounding more unnatural to me, same as touching the dolby headphone amplification slider, seems to be picky and certain step works better than another.
   

   
  Yes I'm using foobar2000 v1.0.3 so therefore DTS decoder is listed in active DSPs list because when I tried latest version it just didn't sound as great in my ears. If you want to try it out here's a preconfigured foobar2000 with the settings above http://cid-87ed83e2c9fd453c.office.live.com/self.aspx/Public/foobar2000/foobar2000.zip


----------



## Graphicism

Thats cool, definitely different settings for different headphones makes sense. With using 120% amplification make sure no clipping occurs, if unsure you can spot this easily with Peakmeter Spectrum.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> Thats cool, definitely different settings for different headphones makes sense. With using 120% amplification make sure no clipping occurs, if unsure you can spot this easily with Peakmeter Spectrum.


 

 There's no distortion (I did check with some peakmeter plugin for my soundcard drivers though) and the amplification setting for dolby headphone plugin doesn't seem to affect the volume of the output (well only minimally) but it's more an amplification of the dolby headphone effect itself  and I don't need to measure it to be sure, foobar2000 for starters is very difficult to get to distort the way it's coded and the sound quality is just that good. iTunes and Winamp for example quickly distorts if you either use the EQ or any 3rd party plugins or whatever but foobar2000 doesn't seem to and is one of the reasons I greatly prefer using it.


----------



## punks15

thank you graphicism! this topic is awesome


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





punks15 said:


> thank you graphicism! this topic is awesome


 

 It sure is! I'm so glad I managed to see this topic, it has changed my music listening experience by some tremendous amount, in fact I was a winamp user before I started using foobar2000 and dolby headphone and today I can't go back to any other player or listen to music online etc because it sounds so boring/disengaging and flat in the sense that there is no "3D space", everything sounds like it was coming from the same "level" if that makes any sense compared to listening on foobar2000 with appropriate dolby headphone config where it sounds like music is surrounding you and you sort of start picture how the instruments and singers etc are placed in your head like getting a live performance out of a studio recording. I've also tried several VST plugins and separate software that enhance surround sound or play around with width, delay and such and none has worked with as great result as foobar2000 with dolby headphone provides.


----------



## punks15

wait a minute... did i notice distortion here? what do i have to do or should i mess with the eq?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





punks15 said:


> wait a minute... did i notice distortion here? what do i have to do or should i mess with the eq?


 

 foobar2000 never distorts for me, it's the player that is the hardest one to get distorted sound playing, however if you boost the EQ much above zero level it might distort like most software EQ starts to at some point so you better keep the EQ sliders at or near 0-level and lower the frequencies you want to hear less of. Now Dolby headphone adds some bass but it never sounded distorted though but I noticed loss of detail/clarity compared to not using dolby headphone plugin if I didn't take care of it on the EQ. On most people's headphones it may not be such an issue but for a guy that uses a XB500 it's a very big difference due to the bass boost so I compared to other media players and my own ears and found that at least on my machine this gives me the best result with dolby headphone enabled (for EQing my headphones I use my soundcard's EQ, foobar2000's EQ was just adjusted a bit for better clarity and little more balanced bass compared to fellow media players when dolby headphone is enabled). Deep bass is still a bit more pronounced than comparing to for example especially iTunes but I think it's more iTunes that lack the deep bass presence than foobar2000 overdoing it with this setting so it's very welcome with that tiny bit stronger deep bass as it doesn't interfere with the clarity/sound quality in my ears, raising the 77Hz and 110Hz even one step higher will mudden up the midrange a bit for me already though.


----------



## patters

Quote: 





feast said:


> I find that this makes shallow recordings sound deep, and rich/full recordings sometimes sound slightly cloudy, despite the fact that things sound more directional.


 


  I found exactly the same thing. I think the issue is that if lots of care has been taken to deliberately master the original two channels with plenty of separation and a decent soundstage then there's not much to be gained. In those cases it sounds to me much like a simple DSP effect like a "Live" preset.
   
  On the other hand I did find less well mastered files which in original mode felt like I was in a room with speakers out in front of me. Those files improved significantly.
   
  Virtualizing up to 5.1 then using a DSP to go back down to 2 channels doesn't seem all that logical. On the other hand, using Dolby Headphone to squeeze out the extra info you would normally miss from a true 5.1 movie soundtrack does work well.


----------



## BigTony

ok, fixed the problem.
   
  BT


----------



## Scudbot

Foobar 1.1.6 beta 4 DSP Manager settings

Channel Mixer
 General tab settings:
 6 channels, LFE off
 Upmix tab settings:
 Copy
 Center level: .90
 Subwoofer level: whatever
 Rear level 1.3
 Subwoofer tab settings:
 Subwoofer channel
 Level 1.0 
 Bass Redirection
 Leave Satellites Intact
 Frequency 70

Dolby Headphone wrapper settings:
 Volume 100%
 DH1, Reference Room

That's it, nothing else. I don't use the Noise Sharpening filter. Way too much coloration for me.

Phones: Superlux HD668B, AKG velour pads 
 neutral/balanced except they're shy of low bass (see Subwoofer settings above)
DAC/amp: Leckerton UHA4, low gain


----------



## Autre31415

Would you set Xfi to headphones ot 5.1 for this setup?


----------



## bluelans

Thanks for posting the step by step guide.


----------



## Willakan

Tried this, a definite improvement on vanilla Dolby HP, and probably the best surround sound DSP I have heard. It was really great, right up until the moment I turned it off and realised how much better music sounded with it disabled. It still has that stereotypical "towel-over-ears" sound common to most of these DSPs/DSP combinations. 
My ability to place sounds isn't as good as I would like though, so detail wins over soundstage expansion every time here.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I also noticed decrease in quality at first which was due to the quite hefty boosted bass which dolby headphone adds and isn't working optimal (using my soundcard's EQ to boost the bass if desired works better with less affect on mids and highs) so I took care of that with the EQ: 
   

   
  With this setting the bass sounds very similar to other players while dolby headphone is enabled and doesn't overhelm the rest of the frequencies which DH does if you don't EQ it like above. That's my recommended EQ config with dolby headphone enabled if you just want that same "flat" sound as with DH disabled.


----------



## Willakan

@RPGWiZaRD: First thing I did after applying DSPs was EQ-ed away the bass. With the boosted bass, I found it almost unlistenable, but then again I can't ever imagine wanting any more bass than my Grados provide (not exactly a basshead).
 Even with EQ applied, I still felt the detail lost wasn't worth it, but each to his own.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Did you combine it with Channel mixer dsp that is placed above dolby headphone in active DSP list right? Without it, the sound gets somewhat muffled and I found it vital to use Channel Mixer with it. If I had noticed lost detail I probably wouldn't like either but with some config here and there it sounds the same as without it but with the awesome soundstaging.
   
  Actually I'd say it makes it easier to discern small details as the sound is brought a bit more forward, especially background instruments and such.
   
  You could always try this preconfigure package in case you missed some settings http://cid-87ed83e2c9fd453c.office.live.com/self.aspx/Public/foobar2000/foobar2000.zip or do you happen to use a Xonar Essence STX perhaps which I suppose lack multichannel configuration and won't work with Channel Mixer I think which is vital for dolby headphone to sound right.


----------



## cachi

hey guys, I am new to the forums.
  I discovered some hrtf files that fit me well but i cant for the life of me
  find the foobar component: foo_dsp_stereoconv.dll
   
  it supposed to accept the impulse wav files in a stereo hrtf pair (which i have)
   
  I really need this badly lol


----------



## Unrealbr

I'm testing this with my Pink Floyd's The Division Bell DTS Audio CD.
 It used to be unbearable, just a chunck of noise on the right side, but with that setup it sounds like a whole new world!
  TYVM Graphicism, mad props for you!


----------



## Dukedudez

Wow!!!  This works amazing with my Sennheiser HD280 Pros since their soundstage is relatively small.  The difference is huge!


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

OK. Thread revival! The first 4 links are not working. It seems that foobar2000.org is not responding. I've tried this entire day. OP please give some alternative links if foobar2000.org is completely down.


----------



## Graphicism

Maybe foobar was temporarily down but all links are working here.


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> Maybe foobar was temporarily down but all links are working here.


 

 Man. All foobar2000.org links are still not working for me, I got on there like 2 days ago.  It could be a regional thing as I am in Canada.


----------



## Graphicism

Could always use a proxy if you don't want to wait around for it.


----------



## Puranti

This is amazing, the soundstage is huge now, thanks a lot ! this is amazing !

But apparently it doesn't support 24b/96khz i have this error message when i try to play one of these :



> Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 96000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels


----------



## OPrwtos

hm, DTS decoder doesnt show up in the dsp plugins, so i cant set it in active but it shows that it is in components, does this matter??


----------



## Graphicism

It's now default in the latest Foobar releases so you don't need to activate it, should just work.


----------



## kiteki

subscribed will check it out.


----------



## OPrwtos

kiteki its great!


----------



## OPrwtos

thx graphic


----------



## kiteki

ok ok fine i'll check it out now...


----------



## kiteki

It's normal not to have "DTS decoder" in the Active DSPs in a modern version of foobar... right?


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> It's normal not to have "DTS decoder" in the Active DSPs in a modern version of foobar... right?


 
  lol thats what i asked a few posts up, and yes its fine.


----------



## kiteki

I usually play with effects and convolvers so this isn't knocking my socks off, but when it's set to DH1 - Reference room on my EX600 or A2000X it does sound really good!!!
   
   
  SHEESH I can't *WAIT* to listen to super fast complex layered trance with this on my new 6-driver custom IEM's!!!


----------



## OPrwtos

and i dont know why u want to sell ur a2000x; just keep it!


----------



## kiteki

Because I went to a meet and became poisoned by the T5p?


----------



## OPrwtos

lol i was being rhetorical.


----------



## TMC

Better late than never, after, to my surprise, enjoying Dolby headphone with music I came across this thread and it sounds really good. Thanks a lot to TS for doing this guide.


----------



## Phos

If you ask me the built in "convert stereo to 4 channels" DSP colors the sound less than the Channel mixer.  Kinda funner that Foobar includes something like this, it isn't enough for a 5.1 system, and quadraphonic headphones are as rare as hen's teeth.  
   
  I really only use this DSP set up for old "very stereo" stuff, newer stuff just gets muffled to my ear.  
   
  Also, you can use Foobar's built in converter to "bake" DSP effects into the files for use on portable players and the like.


----------



## OPrwtos

try these settings out with dolby headphone on 120%
   
  i found it very nice and ive experimented hundreds of times lol.
   
  My eq settings, using k701 and this 5.1 setup right now whilst playing the song "the strawberry field" by james newton howard; sounds like the song is just playing in the room, like in a film. Just so amazing :')


----------



## mvmv

Quick question guys, I've installed the Free Surround beta version and the dolby stuff, and if i use the two together they work fine but if i add the SOX resampler it says this: 
   
  "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 96000 Hz / 16-bit / 6 channels"
   
  Yet when i use the SOX resampler by itself it also works fine, do the two not work together?


----------



## JackeShan

I used to have this for my Sony MDR-V6 and I really liked it. Now with the Ultrasone Pro 900 it's much much worse. Soundstage doesn't seem to get much better, and a lot of detail is lost. I guess this is good for headphones with a relatively small soundstage.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





jackeshan said:


> I used to have this for my Sony MDR-V6 and I really liked it. Now with the Ultrasone Pro 900 it's much much worse. Soundstage doesn't seem to get much better, and a lot of detail is lost. I guess this is good for headphones with a relatively small soundstage.


 
  well not really, i found it works better on headphones with bigger soundstage. I found that on my k701 is the best ive heard it, i tried it on some smaller soundstage closed back panasonic headphones and it wasnt as good, also on the closed back sennheiser pmx200, some iems and my friends; Beats pro. On the closed back headphones it was ok but not that great, on my k701 it is brilliant.
  
  i dont think u liked it on the ultrasone pro 900 because they have s-logic? but that it just a guess because i never used them.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





mvmv said:


> Quick question guys, I've installed the Free Surround beta version and the dolby stuff, and if i use the two together they work fine but if i add the SOX resampler it says this:
> 
> "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 96000 Hz / 16-bit / 6 channels"
> 
> Yet when i use the SOX resampler by itself it also works fine, do the two not work together?


 

 hm i just checked and with me, sox at 96000hz works fine using output wasapi and 24bit. 
   
  Whats the order u got ur DSPs?


----------



## mvmv

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> hm i just checked and with me, sox at 96000hz works fine using output wasapi and 24bit.
> 
> Whats the order u got ur DSPs?


 
  I have:
   
  Resampler on 96000hz
  Free Surround Beta (completely stock)
  Dolby Headphone on DH1 (and it all says valid when i go to configure that)
   
  What do you think? I thought it might be the bit rate but 16/96 and 24/96 give the same error, plus 44.1 works regardless of bitrate.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





mvmv said:


> I have:
> 
> Resampler on 96000hz
> Free Surround Beta (completely stock)
> ...


 
  i tried it with sox last in the chain. 
   
  when i get ur error its for songs that are 22050hz only.


----------



## mvmv

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> i tried it with sox last in the chain.
> 
> when i get ur error its for songs that are 22050hz only.


 
  Cheers that does work, i hadn't tried re-ordering them like that. I thought logically though it would want to be the resampler first as the DH stuff is more of an effect.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





mvmv said:


> Cheers that does work, i hadn't tried re-ordering them like that. I thought logically though it would want to be the resampler first as the DH stuff is more of an effect.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote: 





jackeshan said:


> I used to have this for my Sony MDR-V6 and I really liked it. *Now with the Ultrasone Pro 900 it's much much worse.* Soundstage doesn't seem to get much better, and a lot of detail is lost. I guess this is good for headphones with a relatively small soundstage.


 

 Play around with the settings... I conjured this up with my Ultrasone HFI-780 and actually found it to work better with S-logic than regular headphones.


----------



## mvmv

Wasn't very good at playing around with the settings myself so i just spent a bit of time saving a load of people's settings as separate profiles so now i can switch between all of them and see what i like best.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I've updated my custom config and I'm VERY pleased how it sounds like. I've spent so much time with tweaking this dolby headphone it's funny, probably a course over a year fiddled around with EQ and channel mixer settings etc and took a break every now and then when I thought I had gotten to a very good result. Well this setting is probably my best so far.
   


   
   
  If you want to try it out you can download it here, I kinda need to provide the whole foobar2000 package as it contains the Electri-Q EQ settings (which only balances out the Dolby Headphone frequency balance change). It's preconfigured so only need to be extracted somewhere and start up the exe.
   
  I suggest you extract it somewhere else, load up two foobar2000, this and another foobar2000 that is completely stock settings and compare with the same song. I know some people are allergic against additional reverb though and I use the DH-1 Reference room which adds a tiny bit reverb which I personally find welcome as it sounds more like listening with speakers in a room with it. If you don't like it you can always switch to DH-2 Living room mode in the settings which doesn't add any additional reverb.
   
  In this config I just have a dilemma, can't decide if stereoimage width 0.88 or 0.89 sounds better in Channel Mixer lol.  Yea I keep going back n forth between 1 increments even... Too much separation sounds unnatural, these settings sounds about the closest to being as wide as possible and still sounding natural to me.
   
  Are you using speaker config 5.1 in windows btw? sounds a whole lot better then.


----------



## JackeShan

This is ridiculous. I love this! This is so much better than my own config. My config made the sound very unnatural and distant sounding, so I preferred the normal sound.
  Your config is awesome though. Better soundstage without the loss of clarity and detail! Just what I was looking for with these plugins. I'm currently a/b-ing this versus normal, and so far I enjoy this more. But bass quantity appears to be  a bit less with this config so I think I'll play around with the equalizer to squeeze out more bass without ruining the sound. Should I leave the Electri-Q as it is and adjust the eq with my sound card (which I usually do), what's your suggestion?
   
  Thanks a lot!
  Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> I've updated my custom config and I'm VERY pleased how it sounds like. I've spent so much time with tweaking this dolby headphone it's funny, probably a course over a year fiddled around with EQ and channel mixer settings etc and took a break every now and then when I thought I had gotten to a very good result. Well this setting is probably my best so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





jackeshan said:


> This is ridiculous. I love this! This is so much better than my own config. My config made the sound very unnatural and distant sounding, so I preferred the normal sound.
> Your config is awesome though. Better soundstage without the loss of clarity and detail! Just what I was looking for with these plugins. I'm currently a/b-ing this versus normal, and so far I enjoy this more. But bass quantity appears to be  a bit less with this config so I think I'll play around with the equalizer to squeeze out more bass without ruining the sound. Should I leave the Electri-Q as it is and adjust the eq with my sound card (which I usually do), what's your suggestion?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


 

 I would say fiddle around with the EQ on your soundcard, that's what I do if unhappy with the sound with your headphones, I never adjust the Electri-Q EQ settings to keep it same with any headphones I use. I don't think this config lowers the bass quantity at all, if anything it adds a touch more very deep bass. I think Sony made exactly 1.5dB boost in bass as my config is about 1.5dB reduction, well mostly around -1.45dB reduction, it could be the slightly more "forward" sound that's tricking you. I really tried getting as close as possible to the stock foobar2000 bass quantity and switching on/off here really my ears can't tell if there's any difference in bass quantity. But besides that I simply try to listen if it just sounds good with the rest of the frequency range than simply going for EXACT same balance everywhere as stock, as sounding great has obviously highest priority but yea it should be very close to the original frequency balance anyway.
   
  You can switch on/off the config easily by loading the "DSP chain presets" in the DSP manager page, I have a "Custom: Stock foobar2000" preset for completely stock settings and then "Genre: Balanced (Default)" is the interesting one that should have roughly the same balance as the stock foobar2000 settings and is this config I posted above. The other presets haven't been updated for a long time and would need bunch of EQ adjustments (in general less bass quantity & more forward mids to become usable) as well as the revamped channel mixer settings. Besides it also crashes if you load 2-3 times a preset that has Electri-Q activated so you'd need to switch between the stock foobar2000 config everytime you try loading one of the presets to avoid crashing.


----------



## OPrwtos

Im gona see how it compares to my free surround settings and tell you about it! brb
   
   
   
  - ok well....i tried out your settings and i still prefer mine.
   
  Firstly i have to half the volume from my amp from 20 to 10 when i go to your settings to be around the same loudness even though i use dolby at 120% but i think thats just channel mixer is generally louder than free surround. 
   
  Also your settings make the music much more upfront than mine and more music going on in the center. Mine has waaayyy more instrument separation, and most of the instruments are placed around the sides. Mine seems to have more empty space and also gives a darker background with less noise. 
   
  However! the funny thing is that even though i decided to keep my settings i decided to tweak them a bit a change very slightly the instrument placement so i have more music in the center.
   
  Im not sure you will like my settings btw.


----------



## JackeShan

I have compared it a bit more to stock foobar and I think you're right. The bass is definitely there with this config. I like this more and more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> I would say fiddle around with the EQ on your soundcard, that's what I do if unhappy with the sound with your headphones, I never adjust the Electri-Q EQ settings to keep it same with any headphones I use. I don't think this config lowers the bass quantity at all, if anything it adds a touch more very deep bass. I think Sony made exactly 1.5dB boost in bass as my config is about 1.5dB reduction, well mostly around -1.45dB reduction, it could be the slightly more "forward" sound that's tricking you. I really tried getting as close as possible to the stock foobar2000 bass quantity and switching on/off here really my ears can't tell if there's any difference in bass quantity.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> Im gona see how it compares to my free surround settings and tell you about it! brb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think we all have our personal "optimal" settings, I prefer this "up-front" sound while still giving better positioning/soundstage than stock config, it's a very engaging/immersive experience for me. One that it feels like I have to start dancing to the music and can't sit still in the chair, that's the kind of sound I like. ^^ Compare Grados vs Sennheiser HD800 sound. Grado's are meant for headbanging to your metal with while HD800 is more like leaning back in a comfortable chair or couch with a nice cup of tea enjoying a relaxed listen to classical music. I want to feel engaged by the music not relaxed. xD
   
  BTW the advanced limiter isn't really that important, you can try switching it off, what it does (besides limiting the signal so it doesn't clip) for some songs is to bring especially vocals/mids a bit more forward why I like keeping it enabled for most songs but for very complex passages in music it could possibly make it more crowdy/messy sounding (worsen the transparency), so try also removing that one. Another setting which I know would fit you better is to lower the "front in rear" slider in channel mixer, then you will get more closer to freesurround sound, volume is decreased and will give you more airy soundstage/better transparency sound. And then you probably want your Dolby Headphone amplification slider set a lot higher for increase sense of depth/positioning by DH like you have set yours to 120% (I know it has this kind of effect as I used to use around 120% in the past with different channel mixer settings)


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *RPGWiZaRD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I want to feel engaged by the music not relaxed. xD


 
  i want to feel relaxed not engaged


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> i want to feel relaxed not engaged


 

 Yea we prefer the opposite kind of sound signatures.  I could even easily tweak a config that I know would sound a whole lot better for you but that I'd personally dislike. Maybe we should start offering several different configs to cover different people's taste but yea if we want a laid-back/relaxed sounding config yours would probably fit nicely. I can give it a try if you post the config/settings or preconfigured foobar2000.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Yea we prefer the opposite kind of sound signatures.  I could even easily tweak a config that I know would sound a whole lot better for you but that I'd personally dislike. Maybe we should start offering several different configs to cover different people's taste but yea if we want a laid-back/relaxed sounding config yours would probably fit nicely. I can give it a try if you post the config/settings or preconfigured foobar2000.


 
  i think posted it like 50 places but here u go (haha) - 


   
  just before your post i had front and rear separation on +2 and panorama on 115 and depth on 2.00. I also reduced dolby to 115%
   
   
  Edit - old redundant post.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I take it those EQ settings are for your headphones though?  I only used Electri-Q for sake of EQing out the change Dolby Headphone brings (boosted bass and reduced treble) and then use my soundcard's EQ if needed to EQ the headphones individually but my M-Audio Q40 headphones need no EQing at all though.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> I take it those EQ settings are for your headphones though?  I only used Electri-Q for sake of EQing out the change Dolby Headphone brings (boosted bass and reduced treble) and then use my soundcard's EQ if needed to EQ the headphones individually but my M-Audio Q40 headphones need no EQing at all though.


 
  yh this is the eq i use for my 701's


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Well I tried with the free surround settings and yea it sounded quite a lot like I expected, not quite my sound (I dislike the K701 sound signature, probably the last headphone I'd buy and this is like going from a Grado signature to K701 signature) but it does sound more laid-back but I'm noticing some strange "metallic" sounding highs in some songs with those settings. Freesurround also seems to sound a lot better with stereo speaker config than 5.1 in the windows control panel for the output device I use while keeping free surround plugin set to 5.1 surround. With channel mixer it sounds even better with speaker config set to 5.1 in windows control panel than stereo.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Well I tried with the free surround settings and yea it sounded quite a lot like I expected, not quite my sound (I dislike the K701 sound signature and this is like going from a Grado signature to K701 signature) but it does sound more laid-back but I'm noticing some strange "metallic" sounding highs in some songs with those settings. Freesurround also seems to sound a lot better with stereo speaker config than 5.1 in the windows control panel for the output device I use while keeping free surround plugin set to 5.1 surround. With channel mixer it sounds even better with speaker config set to 5.1 in windows control panel than stereo.


 
  you dont use wasapi? also the "metallic highs" might be to do with your eq settings with ur particular headphones, i dont think i get this with mine.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> you dont use wasapi? also the "metallic highs" might be to do with your eq settings with ur particular headphones, i dont think i get this with mine.


 

 No, not using wasapi but since I have volume control on my ZO2 amp now I might be able to start using it now in low gain. Anyway if using channel mixer to get a config that sounds more according to your preferences I bet this would sound a whole lot better for you than the settings I posted:


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> No, not using wasapi but since I have volume control on my ZO2 amp now I might be able to start using it now in low gain. Anyway if using channel mixer to get a config that sounds more according to your preferences I bet this would sound a whole lot better for you than the settings I posted:


 
  ok ill try it and btw where did u get dolby dll version 1.20.0.276? lol mine is 1.10.0.270
   
  - i just saw now in another forum "I did not notice audible differences between versions 1.10.0270 and 1.20.0.276 of this library (though I did just a very fast comparison)."
   
  I probably wont either.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> ok ill try it and btw where did u get dolby dll version 1.20.0.276? lol mine is 1.10.0.270
> 
> - i just saw now in another forum "I did not notice audible differences between versions 1.10.0270 and 1.20.0.276 of this library (though I did just a very fast comparison)."
> 
> I probably wont either.


 
   
  I don't remember where I got it but u can grab it in the foobar2000 package I posted previously but yea I doubt you hear any differences, don't think I ever did.


----------



## OPrwtos

hm i tried those but i find it isnt as clear and has a slight veil plus it adds some echo like im in a tunnel or something lol
  
  - i think u should do some quick ab comparisons with the settings i gave u and the ones u just gave me and see if u can hear the same as i do.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> hm i tried those but i find it isnt as clear and has a slight veil plus it adds some echo like im in a tunnel or something lol
> 
> - i think u should do some quick ab comparisons with the settings i gave u and the ones u just gave me and see if u can hear the same as i do.


 

 Well those settings I just posted was based on like 5 min quick testing, I'd say reduce Rear volume from 2.00 to 1.50 and Dolby Headphone amplfication from 113 to 100% and it would already sound more neutral. Weird sideeffects happens when you go overboard on settings.


----------



## OPrwtos

lol


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I actually enjoy those above settings quite a bit after reducing DH amplification to 100% and (*EDIT:* Oops my bad not front in rear but the rear "volume") rear volume slider to 1.50. Doesn't sound as forward as my other config obviously but I can still enjoy this kind of sound for classical or my console RPG games music library especially. It just seems the highs sound better for me with channel mixer, seems more accurate to me.
   
  I will probably have to save this config as it's a nice change to listen to every now and then I suppose with a more relaxed sound & airy soundstage.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> I actually enjoy those above settings quite a bit after reducing DH amplification to 100% and (*EDIT:* Oops my bad not front in rear but the rear "volume") rear volume slider to 1.50. Doesn't sound as forward as my other config obviously but I can still enjoy this kind of sound for classical or my console RPG games music library especially. It just seems the highs sound better for me with channel mixer, seems more accurate to me.
> 
> I will probably have to save this config as it's a nice change to listen to every now and then I suppose with a more relaxed sound & airy soundstage.


 
  hm, i dont know, i used to find channel mixer more natural when i used to use it, also as it was the first one i used but now i find freesurround to sound more natural and also i prefer freesurround  because of the way you can arrange the place of the instruments and also the separation, its just more configurable in my opinion.


----------



## musicreo

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> ok ill try it and btw where did u get dolby dll version 1.20.0.276? lol mine is 1.10.0.270
> 
> - i just saw now in another forum "I did not notice audible differences between versions 1.10.0270 and 1.20.0.276 of this library (though I did just a very fast comparison)."
> 
> I probably wont either.


 
   Dolby Headphone 1.10.0270 was included in Power DVD 7 and  Power DVD 8,9,10,11 include 1.20.0276.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





musicreo said:


> Dolby Headphone 1.10.0270 was included in Power DVD 7 and  Power DVD 8,9,10,11 include 1.20.0276.


 
  oh ok, have u noticed any difference between them?


----------



## musicreo

I can't hear  any differences. The files produced with DH 1.1 and 1.2   have the same size so I think that if there is a difference it is very small.  But it's strange because the file size of DH 1.2 is 752 KB and of DH 1.1 656KB.
  I thought that I heard a difference when I compared Power DVD  7 with Power DVD 8 a few years ago. Maybe  it is the dynamic Compression that have changed.


----------



## kalston

I prefer Isone Surround ( http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isonesurround/ ) over Dolby Headphones (yes it works in foobar with http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947 ) using the Home Cinema preset with 50% distance. I use it for movie playback in JRiver too. 
   
  Anyone else? DH has an annoying bass boost IMO and doesn't sound quite as clean as Isone.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





kalston said:


> I prefer Isone Surround ( http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isonesurround/ )


 

 dont like


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





kalston said:


> Anyone else? DH has an annoying bass boost IMO and doesn't sound quite as clean as Isone.


 
   
  Yea as well as treblerange reduction why I use Dolby Headphone + Electri-Q VST to EQ out the modified FR balance.


----------



## Stanzmastertron

I'm only up to page 13 of this thread, but I find this pretty interesting.
   
  I only got my first 'serious' pair of headphones recently and didn't know about all the enthusiasm for headphone surround sound.  I find this interesting because in the home audio community, listening to music with surround processing seems to be universally frowned upon, although that's how I enjoy it on my 5.1 system.  Sure stereo is purer, but with atmospheric music like shoegaze, ambient, or electronic stuff like IDM, Pro Logic can sound amazing.
   
  Any reason surround for music is embraced by you headphone guys and not home audio audiophiles? 
   
  I've noticed though that surround processing can bring out distortion in files prone to it.  The same way 'Theater 5CH' mode on my receiver exaggerates sibilance on vinyl records to the point of audible distortion, the more processing I add in the channel mixer, the more distortion is revealed in some files. 
   
  Anyway, I've been playing around with this and am enjoying the following settings:


----------



## xXSjnHassanXx

big thanks man.. sounded big yet still natural.
  Listening to it with Fischer Audio DBA02 MK II


----------



## ivantoar

Nice guide! I have tried OP's setting and settings posted by various posters here but in the end I keep going back to original stereo mode. I have to admit that this is fun and improves soundstage but it still don't feel right for me. It's not as clear/crisp as the original stereo mode.


----------



## antberg

Pals,help here.
  I have recently downloaded the new Foobar version with both wasapi modality (the push and event ones) but in this same bit perfect mode  am unable to play hi res files (96Khz/24Bits) with 5.1 channels.In normal mode (using windows audio streaming) i can play those files ,considering that with both i use Channel Mixer and Dolby Headphone settings.Any Clue?
  btw the problem shown is "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 48000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels".
  just to make an example ,when listening to Bohemian Rhapsody Flac 5.1 the back vocals are miles away,whatever change i am able to do in mixer channel i cannot solve the problem.I am starting to get rally Pi$$ed off,i am trying to get my best Foobar preferences since few weeks but every time i get some sort of problem.
  Very thanks guys.


----------



## TheSacredSoul

Hi, can anyone tell me if my settings are right for ASIO?


----------



## Scudbot

I have not been able to get Foobar 1.1.15 and Wasapi 3.0 to work together.  I believe there's a compatibility issue.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





scudbot said:


> I have not been able to get Foobar 1.1.15 and Wasapi 3.0 to work together.  I believe there's a compatibility issue.


 
   
  That's odd. Both WASAPI (3.0 version) modes work flawlessly on foobar2000 1.1.12a.
   
  Do previous foobar2000 versions work, as well as the previous WASAPI component version?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Works fine with 1.1.15 here.


----------



## Scudbot

It's not because it's 1.1.15.  It's the Channel Mixer that WASAPI 3.0 seems to have an issue with. If I set up for two channels, it's fine. If I configure for the 5.1 Dolby experience deal and go to 6 channels (or anything other than 2) WASAPI 3.0 bombs out.  Ref: Win 7x64, i7 quad core with 8GB Ram/6GB cache, updated USB 2.0 drivers.


----------



## Scudbot

By the way, I'm using a Leckerton UHA4 which uses the vanilla USB driver so there's no sound card involvement.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





scudbot said:


> It's not because it's 1.1.15.  It's the Channel Mixer that WASAPI 3.0 seems to have an issue with. If I set up for two channels, it's fine. If I configure for the 5.1 Dolby experience deal and go to 6 channels (or anything other than 2) WASAPI 3.0 bombs out.  Ref: Win 7x64, i7 quad core with 8GB Ram/6GB cache, updated USB 2.0 drivers.


 
   
  Use DS instead and set your Leckerton UHA4 exclusively for foobar2000.


----------



## TjPhysicist

So i followed this exactly and while there IS a difference, while listening to the test files i noticed the rear L/R seems to be in the same place as front L/R there is not distinction between the two, they just kinda sound different (volume difference obviously, per the setting) but i dont hear any staging/seperation between the front and rear at all. Using onboard soundcard with SRH840 headphones. Am i doing smthg wrong here?


----------



## dsdsds

can you do 7.1 with this config? also what plugins and configuration i need for that?


----------



## dsdsds

can someone answer me, if i can make it to 7.1 channels using this? i want a better soundstage than this if it is possible.


----------



## kuhchuk

Thanks so much, Graphicism.  Been a while since I've said this, but I'm noticing more details in some of my music that were previously heard.  The seperation particularly helped out when listening to The Fall of Troy's _Ghostship Demos_ because of the complex, multi-layered guitar work.  Just one more tool to help me fully appreciate my music. 
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## iRaphi

WOW 
 my collection sounds even better now
 thx


----------



## eahm

> DTS decoder _(Now default with latest Foobar)_


 
  
 It's not.


----------



## bassboysam

zombie thread i know, but can anyone tell me why when i add the Channel Mixer to my components folder i still can't see it in my list of DSPs?


----------



## iRaphi

You just have to restart foobar


----------



## bassboysam

I did, several times


----------



## Sasasd

This works very well with my HFI-2400s and difference is very noticeable. I could definately listen with this but I'm so used to normal stereo sound so won't switch to this.


----------



## Saraya

This is an effective and free way to induce pseudo surround for stereo headphones, when using Foobar. Thank you for sharing.
  
 If you however have a sound card/motherboard that does Dolby /surround or use Razer surround already, then this method is a moot point.
  
 For example, the following setup on a Asus card results in the same sound output as the Foobar method.
  

  
 The added benefit, is that it applies to all audio sources, not just Foobar.
  
 Ultimately though, any pseudo surround headphone setup, will result in an awkward acoustic environment e.g. 'boxy' 'claustrophobic' 'underwater' 'reverb' etc.
  
 If your music is flat, the better option is to stay in stereo and equalize for more dynamics.


----------



## spamme

FLAC + WASAPI I get "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 96000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels".
 Any tips?


----------



## musicreo

The error message says, that your soundcard or your soundcard settings can't handle 96000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels. So you have to change your soundcard settings to 96000 Hz / 24-bit / 6 channels if possible.
  
 When you use the DH  wrapper you have to be sure that you only use max. 48 kHz (higher samplerates are not supported and the dsp have no effect).  For files with 96000 Hz  you need a resampler before the DH dsp in foobar.


----------



## spamme

Isn't better to keep the original 96 hz and no DH instead of down grading to 48 hz?


----------



## yay101

It's saying your hardware can't handle some part of that output. Change to this:
  

  
 Chances are the DH can't handle 96khz and as such is not changing it back to 2 channels, what your hardware is expecting. Put a resampler in your chain.


----------



## knives21htc

im really really interested on doing this


----------



## jackal575

Nothing short of astounding! Great work, thank you!


----------



## adrift

Wow! Its been about 4 years since I last posted in this thread. Awesome to see it still going strong! Recently reinstalled Foobar2000, and am still blown away by the quality of this setup. I probably could tweak it a bit more to get it just right, but after reading through the last 20 or so pages, doesn't look like a whole lot has changed.


----------



## davidsh

It works quite well, makes me want to get the smyth realizer


----------



## RedSky0

I have everything sorted by folders so I just drag/drop, pretty much just use Foobar for global play/pause shortcut and the 5.1 DSP setup. I also have some convolves set up to boost the bass of the HE-500s.


----------



## Wertzius

I couldn't read the whole thread, but maybe it is interesting to know that you can also encode with "Dolby Headphone" enabled. This way you can have the 5.1 emulation for your DTS/AC3  albums on the go. That works with every device. Make sure you have DTS/AC3 and "Dolby Headphone" aupport available in Foobar.
  
 Import the Album in Foobar. Rightclick the playlist - Contens - Convert - ... . Select the audio format of your choice (if you import flac DTS files you should surely use flac). Under "Processing" move "Dolby Headphone" to "Active DSPs". Start encoding. You're done!


----------



## jahmed1

I just tried this, and am left speechless...
 This is exactly what I needed, but I didn't know I wanted! The soundstage is improved in a really natural way, and I want to listen to all of my songs again 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Wertzius

Did you try it with a real 5.1 recording or with a normal stereo recording? It works much better with real 5.1 recordings.
 I can say the "Muse - The Resistance" 5.1 recording is really awesome!


----------



## evrycard

redsky0 said:


> I have everything sorted by folders so I just drag/drop, pretty much just use Foobar for global play/pause shortcut and the 5.1 DSP setup. I also have some convolves set up to boost the bass of the HE-500s.


 
 What kind of skin is that?


----------



## wyndnra1n

Ill need to try this. Love Foobar and have always wanted surround output.


----------



## RedSky0

Yin-Yang v0.9.2


----------



## Fabithierry

Also, the Dolby Pro Logic ii decoder from the ffdshow audio decoder is amazing!


----------



## Karpenter

This works great on my PC. Thank you.
  
 about the
 • Download _5.1 Surround Test_ File from lynnemusic.com
  
 That AC3 surround sound file link does not exist anymore.
 please see  http://www.lynnemusic.com/surround.html
 for that Surround Test File (.WMA) and a few more.
  
 or you can download the original AC3 file at  http://www.cachedpages.com/


----------



## vincik

i think you should use 5.1 as a source for dolby headphone plugin and not stereo. I tried it at first with stereo files and was very disappointed and uninstall this plugin. I gave it second chance now, but now i took 5.1 96/24 music from bluray. Downsample to 48/24 and used this plugin with no other EQs and DSPs.
  
 I subjectively feel these differences:
 Some parts are more quiet, than with original source. Others are not. Music feels more dynamic and relaxed.
 Bass feels stronger.
 Voices doesnt feel so close and intimate.
 More mellow/darker/muffed/less harsh sound.
  
 If music was mastered with support for dolby headphone in mind from start, it would probably sound awesome, as sound engineer would make all the EQ adjustments... on the other hand... i heared Pearl Jam Binaural album and some others and wasn't pleased with the sound.


----------



## davidsh

That's the thing with binaural tech.. You can't please everyone. It's one big compromise.


----------



## uziyourillusion

Seems to achieve the same sound effect you can get by just downloading KMPlayer and turning the 3D effect on, whats the difference here?


----------



## BullHorn

This is rather glorious. Hearing a huge difference with Carpenter Brut's Disco Zombi Italia. Thanks for this guide!
  
 -EDIT: My experience with this after 1 day is that bass loses its definition and sounds a lot more muddy. I rather have a bit less sound-stage but keep my thick and accurate bass.


----------



## spamme

I've been using this setup for quite some time and I'm pleased with the results.
 But I just started dorking around in powerdvd 15 and noticed that setting the output mode to headphones-*truetheater surround*-theater sounds BETTER than dolby headphone (the very plugin used in this neat foobar setup), not only in videos but in music files as well.
 The thing is, I'm not sure if music played in powerdvd15+truetheater surround sounds better than DH+foobar+electric-q. 
 any thoughts? now I wish there was a way to use truetheater in foobar too.
  
 edit: now I think foobar sounds better, dunno whether electric-q does a good job or DH works better in foobar than it does in powerdvd


----------



## karn1911

Requesting a zip file of a recent portable foobar set up with all the addons and settings ready to go.


----------



## AtrafCreez

Will the FooBar have any effect on YouTube videos for my Sennheiser wireless RS 195?  Or for youtube in general? (Newbie)


----------



## Wertzius

No, Foobar is an audioplayer. You could try a software made by Razer, they offer virtual surround for everything. the You can try it for free. 

Gesendet von meinem Passport mit Tapatalk


----------



## Nitorita

Hi, I'm new here and just created an account to post my experience with this setup so far.
  
 My music collection consists primarily of stereo FLACs. With my headphones, I did a few enable/disable tests to see what the difference was like, and the vocals sounded less "defined" but the entirety of the songs would be more balanced.
  
 I'm sure that it's subjective, but since I personally favour hearing the vocals more distinctly, I disabled this setup for now. I'm an average person, so I'm not qualified to say whether this setup is good, or not.
  
 Perhaps this setup works better only if the songs themselves were meant for 5.1 surround sources, and not stereo sources. I think I'll stick to fooling around with the equalizer.


----------



## spamme

I get even more soundstage changing these settings:
  
 in channel mixer:
 general
 stereoimage width   1.50
  
 upmix 
 center 1.00 (or more, necessary to make vocals stronger)
 rear in front 1.0 (this gives the extra soundstage)
  
 It works well in several occasions, sounds awful in low kbps mp3s though.


----------



## GCTD

Thanks! This is gonna come in handy when I get my hands on Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here on Hybrid 5.1 SACD.


----------



## Deso301

Has anyone else had trouble adjusting the 'channel mixer' when using a 5.1 FLAC audio file? It plays fine but I'm not able to turn off any of the channels regardless of what I do (I have set it to 2 channels,saved it in the profile and restarted, just to have it set back to 6 channels) Maybe it's not possible...idk.ty


----------



## Ulman

i cant get this to work and i really want to. do i need to load the dsp i saved?  every time i go to ''active dsp' it only shows equalizer.  need help please .


----------



## juandavidblues

It is sounds greats thank you OP, I am testing the setting in my sony mdr xb400 and sound very well


----------



## spamme

There's no point in doing that. Why would you try to simulate 5.1 when you already have it native?
 what you wanna do in channel mixer is setting output channels to 6 (because now you have 6 channels...) and also enable  "use subwoofer".


----------



## Priscilla Rose

This is so awesome! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## felix3650

Have you guys tried with "convert stereo to 4 channels" and dolby headphones only? The first plugin comes native to foobar. Just place the dolby plugin to DH2 and amplification to 70% if you find the bass clipping on some songs. Gives that little ohmph to linear/flat headphones while retaining the "free" extra soundstage


----------



## Priscilla Rose

Does this have any impact on my stereo music files?


----------



## Graphicism

priscilla rose said:


> Does this have any impact on my stereo music files?


 
  
 Of course, that's what's it 'made' for. It takes 2 channels and splits them in 5 virtual directions.
  
 Give it a try...


----------



## XipeTotec

Dude, seriously, this one's like porn.
 I had to change my underwear. Thank you for sharing.
  
 Just a question. Using this method with WASAPI drivers and D-Zero MKII DAC+AMP I notice cracks listening to some songs. How can I prevent this?
 I alreay played with buffer.


----------



## Priscilla Rose

I just learned that if you turn the headphone amplification to 200%. It gives you double the impact!


----------



## GloriousLettuce

Well thank you... changed my life just there.
  
 I wish DAP-s had this...


----------



## GloriousLettuce

For those that didn't manage to set this up yet, here's the audio difference sample in my attempts, although it sounds better in my setup then the file conversions I did:
  
 https://soundcloud.com/blythe-cass-bryston/dolby-sound-processing-foobar-test-3d-soundstage-simulation 
  
 Edit: Nope, removed. Will find another way to upload it.


----------



## Graphicism

priscilla rose said:


> I just learned that if you turn the headphone amplification to 200%. It gives you double the impact!


 
  
 Anything above 100% causes clipping.


----------



## Knowname

finally got this working, I have version 1.4 seems you can skip the channel mixer part, yours is built in it's either called 'convert to 4 channel' (which I use on certain poorly recorded songs) or 'upmix to 5.1'. put that above dolby headphones and it sounds tite! Don't forget to click the dynamic compression box. This thing rox my socks, yet another reason to put up with foobar's clunky interface :/.


----------

