# The Vero Revolutionary Headphone Cabling System by MIT



## AxelCloris

​  
 If you’ve been in the audio scene for a while then you’re most likely familiar with the name MIT Cables. For the more recent additions to this wonderful hobby, MIT has developed audio and video interfaces, AC power conditioners, and noise filtering technologies for more than three decades. In short, they’ve been around the audio block more than a few times.
  
 At the 2014 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, MIT introduced the world to the _Vero Revolutionary Headphone Cabling System_, the company’s first entry into personal audio. I’m told that the name Vero, meaning “true” in Italian, was chosen because MIT’s latest designs aim to showcase the “truth in music.” With the Vero_,_ MIT has taken their proprietary Multipole Technology, found in many of their audio interfaces and interconnects, and brought it to the world of headphones.
  
 The Vero will be available in two flavors; a replacement cable for headphones with detachable cables or a dongle that connects to the end of permanently attached cables. And while MIT plans to make Vero cables for multiple headphones they won’t be able to produce a cable for every single one out there. Those headphones will be able to utilize the dongle as well. More details about specific configurations will be available when MIT launches their Vero crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo later this year. Currently they're expecting it to go live late in the first quarter.
  
 Now the science and design behind the Vero is great, but when I’m listening to my headphones I don’t really think about the technology that went into it, I focus on the music. So that’s exactly what I’ve been doing with the prototype that MIT has provided. MIT states that the Vero will provide better bass, better mid-range, and smoother high frequencies. To foreshadow a bit, I have to say that I’m very impressed so far.
  
*Listening Tests*
  
 My setup for testing the Vero included the Geek Pulse, Geek LPS4, and two Lightspeed 1G cables by LH Labs; a pair of Alpha Dogs by MrSpeakers; a 2012 MacBook Pro; and MIT’s own SL Z-Cord 3fp power cable. All audio files came from Spotify streaming at 320 kbps. Listening tests were conducted first using the stock MrSpeakers Alpha Dog cable and then again using the MIT Vero cable followed once more with the stock cable.
  
 In Five Iron Frenzy’s _Engine of a Million Plots_ album I found there was better separation between all of the instruments. The bass sounded tighter and had more body but not to the point that I felt there was too much. And the soundstage sounded larger across all of the songs. The horns had more life to their sound with better clarity and emphasis on the attacks. As a trombone player a natural horn reproduction is incredibly important to me. But there was a minor drawback with the Vero cable and this album. The lead male vocals sounded slightly recessed and began to blend into the music at points. It never made the vocals indistinguishable, but it was noticeable when it happened.
  
 Listening to Gustav Holst’s “The Planets, Op. 32: Mars, the Bringer of War” I once again noticed a larger soundstage with the Vero. The stock cable sounded like the symphony was grouped together by sections and then spread out from the other sections while the Vero made the presentation sound like it was coming from one large group. But the improved separation was still present so I never found it difficult to place the horns, winds, and strings; it was more as though I was there in the concert hall vs listening to a recording off-site. I also notated that the horns’ sense of urgency was better conveyed on the Vero and that their timbre held more of a live presentation rather than a recording.
  
 From Miles Davis’s “So What” I noted that the presentation made me feel as though I were sitting on stage performing with the group, rather than in the audience. I’ve played jazz for many years and this is one of my favorite songs to perform. Feeling as though I’m in the performance doesn’t usually happen on this song but it was nice here. By contrast the stock cable made me feel as though I were sitting in the second row in a nice cozy small venue; still an intimate piece but not so intimate as performing it yourself. I also noted that instrument separation was more accurate within the soundstage, but the soundstage itself wasn’t that different between the two cables.
  
 I was listening to GARNiDELiA’s “One” and I’ve simply written “Whoa bass” here in my notes. The bass had much more body and much better decay than the stock cable. I also noted that the Vero brought more life to the vocals and that the mix was better between vocals and accompaniment, my notes saying “almost perfect.”
  
 During Cee Lo Green’s “I Want You” I found, like with Five Iron Frenzy, that the male vocals were slightly recessed and would slightly blend in with the rest of the music at times. Again it wasn’t impossible to hear him but it was noticeable when it happened. I also noticed that when he had a subtler vibrato it was easier to notice on the Vero than the stock cable. The background music had a bigger sound overall and filled the soundstage more, giving a closer presentation. And I also noted that his reverb was more natural on the Vero thanks to the tighter decay.
  
 And finally when listening to Kristen Chenoweth and Idina Menzel’s “For Good” I have some interesting notes, I wrote “Goose bumps. Goose bumps everywhere.” This is one of those songs that will always give me goose bumps and chills when listening to a nice setup. Even with the stock cable I still get them several times throughout the song. But with the Vero they were constant, they never went away as soon as the ladies began singing. Presentation was once again closer and sounded as though they were directly in front of my singing to one another. There was a better mix between the female vocals and the orchestra and the subtle horn parts seemed to stand out a bit.
  
 We don’t have time for me to go through the whole list of notes so hopefully everything above will give you an idea what you can expect from the Vero. With the audio comparisons done there are a few things I’d like to point out about the cable itself. First off, it’s stiff, and I’m sure that’s due mostly to the sleeving used on the cable. But the sleeving also has the negative effect of making the cable more microphonic than the stock cable, which is rubber coated. The splitter is box-like and can sometimes get caught on things such as the edge of a desk. If possible I’d like to see it rounded off a bit before the final release.
  
​ *Final Thoughts*
  
 In my 16 years of audio experience I’ve not seen a headphone cable make as much of a difference as this. MIT is definitely on to something with the Vero. I’ve absolutely fallen in love with the prototype; I’ll be saddened when it has to go back. And knowing that it’s a prototype I can’t help but wonder what kind of changes, subtle or otherwise, we’ll see implemented before they enter full production later this year. Now that I’ve attached the Vero to my Alpha Dogs I simply don’t want to take it off. I can say with absolute certainty that MIT will have more of my money as soon as the Vero is available; be it via crowdfunding, the MIT Buyers Club, or retail. And with MIT planning to launch the Indiegogo campaign just before the southern California CanJam in March, I won't have to wait too long.
  
 Disclosure: MIT provided me with a prototype Vero headphone cable and Vero balanced to SE adapter. The MIT SL Z-Cord 3fp power cable was not provided by MIT and was purchased via the MIT Buyers Club. MIT has not paid me for these impressions and the Vero cable and adapter will be returned to MIT upon completion. The adapters may be added for backers later in the campaign.
  
*Update 2/18*
  
 I've received word that MIT has a second prototype in development that utilizes a softer, thinner and more flexible cable. Hopefully once they're finished with the new design they'll be sending the revision my way and I can compare it against the original prototype. I haven't heard anything about possible changes to the splitter housing but we'll see what happens down the line.
  
 I also now have some information on pricing for the Vero. MIT Buyers Club members can opt-in for any updates surrounding the Vero and receive a special perk during the Indiegogo campaign. I've been told that the perk is "substantially lower than the MSRP" but I don't have any specific prices at this time. We'll probably learn about those special prices and the MSRP closer to the start of the campaign in March. If you're not currently signed up for the MIT Buyers Club I'd encourage doing so. It's free, after all.
  
 And one last update for today, MIT is planning on having the Vero on display at the SoCal CanJam on March 28-29. If you're going to be at the show I'd encourage stopping by the MIT table and checking out the Vero system. I know I'll be visiting for sure.
  
*MIT Vero Reference (added 5/12)*
  
 I've had the Vero Reference in-house for a few days now and I connected it immediately after delivery. I allowed music to play for two full days before doing any head-to-head comparisons with the standard Vero I also have on hand. I'm lucky to have both prototypes at the same time because the second Vero prototype is due back to MIT soon. Here are my thoughts after a few hours comparing the two against one another.
  
 First, my feelings about the Vero Full Range cable still stand; I think it's an excellent cable based on my experience pairing it with both the MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs and the HiFiMan HE-400i. But as I said in my earlier posts the main drawback I experienced was a blending of male vocals into the music and they felt slightly lost in the chaos at times. The Vero Reference seems to have removed that splinter from the paw and male vocals are now exactly as pronounced as I want them to be. Now for some specific direct comparisons.
  
 One of the aspects of the Vero Reference that quickly stands out above the Full Range is cymbal decay; the Reference provides a longer ring and decay after a crash. I also found that the same is true for chimes. Overall I feel that anything hitting the higher frequencies benefits from some added extension and clarity over the Vero Full Range. Female vocals are just as seductive on the Reference as they are on the Full Range. They're prominent and command the attention of the listener. As mentioned above I can now say the same for male vocals as well. To my ears it's an obvious change for the better.
  
 Previously I found that the bass was very controlled but still demonstrating its presence with the Vero Full Range. I feel like the bass has been tamed slightly on the Reference so bass lovers may want to consider picking up a bass dongle for the reference if they weren't before. I personally found the bass dongle to be a bit much a lot of the time when paired with the Full Range cable. With the Reference's tighter and slightly less emphasized bass response I found that pairing the bass dongle more welcome on some songs where I really wanted that extra oomph. But I'm far from a bass head so those times aren't all that common for me.
  
 If I were asked to quickly explain the sonic differences between the two cables I would say that the Full Range has a very shallow V shaped sound (key word: very) while the Reference is even across the whole spectrum.
  
 Physically the Vero Reference prototype looks very similar to the second Vero Full Range prototype. The main visible differences are placement of the cable sleeving and the branding on the box splitter. On the Reference the sleeving runs from the 4-pin XLR connector to the box splitter. On the Full Range cable the sleeving is situated between the box splitter and headphone connectors. I commented early on that I felt the first Full Range prototype felt too stiff due to the sleeve that was used and while the sleeve appears to be similar the Reference's stiffness falls somewhere between the first and second Full Range prototypes. I find that it's a nice balance that's not too stiff. The Reference cable is less microphonic than the Full Range prototype due to the change in sleeve placement and that is always appreciated.
  
 By now the question most likely on everyone's mind is "is the Reference worth the upgrade?" Well unfortunately that's not a question I can answer for anyone other than myself. For me the answer is a resounding yes. The HE-400i's stock cable simply cannot deliver the same musicality as the Vero Full Range and Vero Reference. For me, going with the Reference is a no-brainer but for some the Full Range may be more up their alley. If the Reference isn't in your budget then you're sure to enjoy the Full Range as I have. Perhaps having both cables in-house at the same time is more of a curse than a blessing; comparing them side-by-side has shown me exactly what improvements the Reference brings to the table and now I simply cannot stop at the Full Range.


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## AxelCloris

I received an email the other day from the MIT Buyers Club with an official announcement for the Indiegogo campaign. It looks like they're set to launch at Midnight on 3/24. This is just a few days before SoCal CanJam. And they're still advertising a special "secret" perk for Backers Club members so keep that in mind.
  
 I'm set to receive the second prototype shortly and the email contained a photo of the revision with more rubbery shielding.
  





  
 And a few thoughts about the Vero came in from Five Four productions. (via MIT Blog)
  
 Next update when I have the second prototype on hand.


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## chiaraanais12

Hi i need to have a few of these devices ...as i use the interconnects and power cables and speaker cables in both my studio and my home theater system.
 In my opinion they are the best cables in the world pound for pound. I have been using them for over twenty years.
 I will be getting cables for my Sony 7509hd`s / Sony mdr z1 / JBL S7000 and Dre Beats Pro Headphones.
  
 Great company that makes fantastic products.
  
 I cannot wait.


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## seeteeyou

> SWEET Job @mitcables! Rockin the Vero w/ my @Audeze LCD-2F + #BursonAudio #ConductorVirtuoso Thus far GR8 definition


 
  
 https://twitter.com/MikeMercer/status/579675188381511680


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## AxelCloris

The Vero campaign is now live on Indiegogo. Here's the information for the secret perk pricing and what they entail.
  
 Secret Perk #1
 Vero Full Range Headphone Cable - $125.00
 This is the absolute lowest price for our Vero Cable which has an MSRP of $499.00.
 Limited Quantity Available: 50
  
 Secret Perk #2
 Vero Standard Universal Dongle - $99.00
 This will be the lowest price offered for the Vero Standard Dongle which has an MSRP of $299.00
 Limited Quantity Available: 100
  
 Secret Perk #3
 Vero Bass Dongle - $149.00
 This will be the very lowest price for the Vero Bass Dongle which has an MSRP of $350.00
 Limited Quantity Available: 100
  
 Secret Perk #4
 Vero Full Range Headphone Cable plus Vero Bass Dongle Combo - $249.00
 The very best of both! Combining our Vero Full Range Headphone Cable with the Vero Bass Dongle at this price? Why wouldn't you??
 Limited Quantity Available: 50


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## TonySunshine

any impressions on the bass dongle?


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## georgelai57

This is interesting, especially the dongles version. I have way too many headphones to use the non-dongled versions.


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## Axis1

AxelCloris, any updates on your second test? It's almost a week of silent or found any issues with Vero?


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> AxelCloris, any updates on your second test? It's almost a week of silent or found any issues with Vero?


 
  
 Still testing. The cable arrived just before AXPONA and I spent most of the weekend doing show coverage. I'll probably be sharing my impressions tomorrow after a little more time to collect my thoughts.


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## Axis1

Thank for the replied, and would you think it's worth to get full-range over universal standard, if there any significant difference or not worth to spent extra costs? Hope your valuable information will help the res of us.


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> Thank for the replied, and would you think it's worth to get full-range over universal standard, if there any significant difference or not worth to spent extra costs? Hope your valuable information will help the res of us.


 
  
 From my time with the prototypes I feel that you can get about 85% of the benefit of the cable with the dongle. So what I'd recommend depends on your personal situation. If you have more than one headphone that you use on a regular basis and don't want to grab a dedicated cable for each then you should grab the dongle. If you have one main headphone or a couple of headphones that use the same connector then I'd say get the cable for the additional benefit.
  
 And they sent me the bass dongle to pair with the latest prototype. Wow that thing definitely gives some additional life in the low end.


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## Axis1

Great, I plan to use on virtual reality experiment on delivering great music.
  
 Oh yes, I have a question if I own a Macbook Pro and ATH-M40x headphone, the full range cable that use 4pin XLR can be connect with audio jack to XLR 4pin?
 http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0362/2465/products/HeadRoom_Pix_6.jpg?v=1400274710
  
 Seem only a tiny contributors backed bass dongle, I guess we can do with EQ-ing to get the same effect?


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## Axis1

Oh, my last post need approval, repost again.
  
 Using for virtual reality experiment. I own Macbook Pro and ATH-M40x, it is possible to get the same quality with full range cable that has 4pin XLR with the audio jack to 4pin XLR?
  
 Only a shy amount of contributors backed bass dongle, I guess it's possible with EQ-ing to get the same effect?


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> Oh, my last post need approval, repost again.
> 
> Using for virtual reality experiment. I own Macbook Pro and ATH-M40x, it is possible to get the same quality with full range cable that has 4pin XLR with the audio jack to 4pin XLR?
> 
> Only a shy amount of contributors backed bass dongle, I guess it's possible with EQ-ing to get the same effect?


 
  
 Not sure about EQ since I hardly touch the stuff. Not every headphones setup I have at home can benefit from it so I don't bother with it.
  
 And if I understand your first question, all Vero come terminated with a 4-pin XLR by default so you'll have to use a 4-pin to 1/4" adapter with SE equipment. An adapter will add a small bit of additional attenuation but only the most discerning ear will notice a difference when listening.


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## Axis1

axelcloris said:


> Not sure about EQ since I hardly touch the stuff. Not every headphones setup I have at home can benefit from it so I don't bother with it.
> 
> And if I understand your first question, all Vero come terminated with a 4-pin XLR by default so you'll have to use the included 4-pin to 1/4" adapter with SE equipment. An adapter will add a small bit of additional attenuation but only the most discerning ear will notice a difference when listening.


 
  
 SE equipment mean? Headphone Amplifier? I have recently backed *Leo: Vintage Analog Sound* at Kickstarter, it's a amplifier and interesting to hear what vinyl+low bass increase similar to the Vero bass dongle can really sound.
  
 So to connect from Macbook Pro would use this adapter - 4-pin XLR (F) to 1/4" (M)? The vero cable is 4-pin XLR (M)?


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> SE equipment mean? Headphone Amplifier? I have recently backed *Leo: Vintage Analog Sound* at Kickstarter, it's a amplifier and interesting to hear what vinyl+low bass increase similar to the Vero bass dongle can really sound.
> 
> So to connect from Macbook Pro would use this adapter - 4-pin XLR (F) to 1/4" (M)? The vero cable is 4-pin XLR (M)?


 
  
 If you're looking to connect directly to a MacBook Pro then you'll need a 4-pin XLR (F) to 3.5mm (M). The Leo looks like it would need a 1/4" connector.
  
 SE equipment means single ended. The 4-pin XLR is balanced so it gets converted to single ended in the adapter.


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## Axis1

Learn something new, lastly would these connectors work to have a 1/4" (M) to 4pin XLR (F) adaptor from Leo, and connected to Vero with 4pin XLR (M)?
  
 One commenter said otherwise?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698323/4-pin-female-xlr-to-1-4-inch-adapter#post_10165128


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> Learn something new, lastly would these connectors work to have a 1/4" (M) to 4pin XLR (F) adaptor from Leo, and connected to Vero with 4pin XLR (M)?
> 
> One commenter said otherwise?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698323/4-pin-female-xlr-to-1-4-inch-adapter#post_10165128


 
  
 The adapter that MIT has sent with all 3 prototype cables has been a 4-pin XLR (F) to 3.5mm (M). You can have an adapter that adapts to 1/4" (M) if preferred or you could use a common 3.5mm>1/4" adapter with the Leo.
  
 This is a balanced to single ended adapter, it's using a 4-pin XLR (M) and changing it to a 3.5mm (F). The adapter that comes with the Vero is similar but it uses a female XLR instead.
  





  
 I'm saying the adapter is taking a balanced cable and making it single ended for use with SE equipment. You cannot take a single ended cable and simply adapt it to balanced, you'd have to re-wire the whole thing.


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## Axis1

axelcloris said:


> The adapter that MIT has sent with all 3 prototype cables has been a 4-pin XLR (F) to 3.5mm (M). You can have an adapter that adapts to 1/4" (M) if preferred or you could use a common 3.5mm>1/4" adapter with the Leo.
> 
> This is a balanced to single ended adapter, it's using a 4-pin XLR (M) and changing it to a 3.5mm (F). The adapter that comes with the Vero is similar but it uses a female XLR instead.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Alright, it's clear to me, wonderful cables indeed!
  
 Now a brief update Vero Full Range Reference is a mystery and why would they announce when the campaign reach the end soon.


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## AxelCloris

I'll agree that it's a mysterious update. Since I'm unfamiliar with the inner workings of MIT I don't know what the differences between the new reference and standard cables are. I imagine more information will be released soon.


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## Axis1

AxelCloris, while testing out Vero, maybe you might want to test the rainy sounds whether it's more realistic soundstage and positioning or seem artificial to you? The test will be great for virtual reality.
  
 http://www.rainymood.com


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## AxelCloris

Time for some quick thoughts on the Vero/HiFiMan pairing. One of the areas where I find my HE-400i a bit lacking is spaciousness. It's certainly not an enclosed sound but the separation and soundstage doesn't measure up to several other headphones that are available such as the HE-560. I've completed several of Jerg's HE-560 mods on the 400i and they've definitely improved the overall spaciousness but there is still room for improvement. The Vero seems like it has given me an additional 10% or so improvement in both soundstage and separation. The Vero still doesn't turn my HE-400i into an HE-560 but still the results are quite welcome.
  
 The full range cable prototype 2 seems to have a similar flat V sound that the first gen had. It provides a marginal bump to both the high and low end while pulling back ever so slightly on the mid range. It's not unpleasant at all but once again I'm finding male vocals blend a little more into the music than they do with the stock cable. Female vocals sound wonderful on the Vero. I need to spend some more time over the next couple of days doing some in-depth A/B comparisons and the mini-coax connector is making that prospect a little daunting since it's not a quick swap like the Alpha Dog cable.
  
 MIT did include a prototype bass dongle in this shipment as well but I haven't spent much time using it with the HE-400i as it has plenty of bass for my tastes.
  
 On an unrelated note I'm annoyed that @Stillhart introduced me to the "Jazz at the Pawn Shop" album, I can't stop listening to it. So good. It sounds wonderful through the Vero/HE-400i combo.


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## Axis1

and DXD DSD for testing, Arnesen: MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia is awesome!
 http://www.2l.no/hires/


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## Axis1

On Kickstarter comment,
 Quick update: the HE-400i and Vero make one excellent pairing.
  
 Curious if you can elaborate more? Do you think if Vero cable is good with closed backed headphone?
  
 Help MIT to get Vero better since their campaign seems not popular as its turn out.


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## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> On Kickstarter comment,
> Quick update: the HE-400i and Vero make one excellent pairing.
> 
> Curious if you can elaborate more? Do you think if Vero cable is good with closed backed headphone?
> ...


 
  
 Re: closed back headphones - See my first post in this thread.  My comments on Indiegogo also said that I'm working on a fully detailed write-up of the 400i/Vero combo. I'll be elaborating soon.
  
 I've been providing feedback to MIT on their first Vero prototype and I'm happy to see the suggestions have been taken into consideration for the second prototype. As for their campaign they're close to 400% of the funding goal. I would call that a success.


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## Steve Eddy

I'm still not quite getting this.

If the "problem" is with the headphones, and there are some pretty significant differences between the headphones they plan to make cables for, how can a fixed set of LRC networks be "right" for all of those headphones? Seems that the thing to have done would be to develop an app or other software that would let you pick an EQ curve for the appropriate headphone. I mean, the LRC networks aren't doing anything that can't be done via DSP. 

se


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## Axis1

SE, I would say every headphones Left and Right frequency aren't exactly the same too, there will be significant difference across different headphones, speakers and microphone but the cables are there to reduce the bottleneck and overcome different frequency that overlap each others something like stage speakers with multiple cones.

I'm still unsure how multipole can really sounds except a great DAC can unleash the sounds that can't be feel with cheap sound chip.

If the frequency has been overlap, the details is lost in the mixed that even EQ can't reproduce it as good as original.


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## Steve Eddy

axis1 said:


> SE, I would say every headphones Left and Right frequency aren't exactly the same too, there will be significant difference across different headphones, speakers and microphone but the cables are there to reduce the bottleneck and overcome different frequency that overlap each others something like stage speakers with multiple cones.
> 
> I'm still unsure how multipole can really sounds except a great DAC can unleash the sounds that can't be feel with cheap sound chip.
> 
> If the frequency has been overlap, the details is lost in the mixed that even EQ can't reproduce it as good as original.




I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say "the cables are there to reduce the bottleneck and overcome different frequency that overlap each others..." What "bottleneck"? 

se


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## AxelCloris

Well, I guess I'll know soon enough what kind of upgrade the reference cable is. MIT overnighted a cable to me, what a fun surprise. Time for a head-to-head.


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## Audio Addict

axelcloris said:


> Well, I guess I'll know soon enough what kind of upgrade the reference cable is. MIT overnighted a cable to me, what a fun surprise. Time for a head-to-head.




At $899 retail, seems pretty high and even the initial perk price is over double the full range.


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## wingsounds13

I am already in for the Vero full range cable (secret perk #1). Even with the secret perks and upgrade perks, I have difficulty with the idea of spending more for a cable than I did for my headphones (ZMF Master model v1 Nov. 2014 production). Still, I am awaiting reports of the Vero Reference cable performance. Maybe just worth buying it against the possibility of getting an LCD-?? in the future.

J.P.


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## sealykojac

I personally get annoyed when the crowd funding of something you backed turns from promoting the original concept into upselling for a better version. Light Harmonic took it to a new dimension with their campaigns and thats when I bailed. I much prefer an approach of stretch goals like PS Audio did with the Sprout. Get enough funding for the initial concept and everybody gets an upgrade or something better.


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## wingsounds13

Back what you want, don't back what you don't want. They are offering options and nobody is being forced to do anything... Get over it or get out.

J.P.


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## AxelCloris

Personally I'm happy that MIT introduced the Reference cable during this campaign. I can imagine that some would be annoyed when they backed a cable in one campaign and then shortly after there was an upgrade released that they'd want to buy. This way people can go straight for the Reference cable without a wait.


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## Steve Eddy

axelcloris said:


> Personally I'm happy that MIT introduced the Reference cable during this campaign. I can imagine that some would be annoyed when they backed a cable in one campaign and then shortly after there was an upgrade released that they'd want to buy. This way people can go straight for the Reference cable without a wait.




Why not go with the reference from the start? How much more can a few SMD resistors and capacitors cost? $5?

se


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## Audio Addict

steve eddy said:


> Why not go with the reference from the start? How much more can a few SMD resistors and capacitors cost? $5?
> 
> se




$400 according to the retail difference.


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## wingsounds13

Now you are getting into the value represented by the outrageous prices of many audiophile components. I can't imagine a reference cable costing even close to $100 to build in quantity, or even $10 more than the standard full range cable, yet the price is set at $899.

Welcome to audiophilia. Bend over and smile! 

J.P.


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## AxelCloris

steve eddy said:


> Why not go with the reference from the start? How much more can a few SMD resistors and capacitors cost? $5?
> 
> se


 
  
 I can't answer the cost because I don't know the inner workings of MIT. But as a MOT you know that final cost involves much more than simply the price of the physical components involved. I do know they held off on announcing the Reference because they didn't feel it was ready but they were working on getting the design completed before the end of the campaign.


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## Steve Eddy

axelcloris said:


> I can't answer the cost because I don't know the inner workings of MIT. But as a MOT you know that final cost involves much more than simply the price of the physical components involved.




Of course. But how does $5 additional in parts translate into a $400 retail price difference?

se


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## AxelCloris

steve eddy said:


> Of course. But how does $5 additional in parts translate into a $400 retail price difference?
> 
> se


 
  
 The $5 in parts were your words, not mine. I cannot say how much their components cost. R&D costs also figure into the final retail price. I can't say why things cost what they do, only MIT would be able to comment on the topic and I doubt they'll give us that kind of information.


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## AxelCloris

*5/12 Update*
  
 I've updated the first post with my current thoughts on the Vero Reference.


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## Steve Eddy

axelcloris said:


> The $5 in parts were your words, not mine. I cannot say how much their components cost.




It's just some SMD resistors and capacitors on a circuit board. All they did for the reference cable was add nine more "articulation poles." Just a handful of SMD resistors and capacitors and a little more circuit board real estate. No more than $5 by my estimation.






> R&D costs also figure into the final retail price. I can't say why things cost what they do, only MIT would be able to comment on the topic and I doubt they'll give us that kind of information.




What R&D? It's essentially been done. Was patented (applied in 2003, issued in 2007) and they've been using it in their tradtional audio cables for years. It takes hundreds of man hours to add nine more "articulation poles"?

se


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## wingsounds13

Actually, I don't doubt that they invested many hundreds of man hours in the Vero full range cable development as well as hundreds more in the Reference cable. Going from the full range to the Reference cable is far more than just adding nine more articulation poles. Also, if carefully selected for their sound quality as I hope all parts of these cables are, I don't doubt that the additional nine poles of articulation could cost more than $5 but probably not a lot more.

I still don't see how this reasonably justifies the $899 MSRP for the Reference cable or the $499 tag for the full range cable. The only justification that I see for these prices is that they are selling to the Audiophile market where insane prices are the measure of quality and enough people are afflicted with the disease and have enough money to feed the price gougers. Personally, I think that the campaign 'early bird' prices are plenty high enough, and about as far as I can and will go. 

J.P.


----------



## Axis1

wingsounds13 said:


> Actually, I don't doubt that they invested many hundreds of man hours in the Vero full range cable development as well as hundreds more in the Reference cable. Going from the full range to the Reference cable is far more than just adding nine more articulation poles. Also, if carefully selected for their sound quality as I hope all parts of these cables are, I don't doubt that the additional nine poles of articulation could cost more than $5 but probably not a lot more.
> 
> I still don't see how this reasonably justifies the $899 MSRP for the Reference cable or the $499 tag for the full range cable. The only justification that I see for these prices is that they are selling to the Audiophile market where insane prices are the measure of quality and enough people are afflicted with the disease and have enough money to feed the price gougers. Personally, I think that the campaign 'early bird' prices are plenty high enough, and about as far as I can and will go.
> 
> J.P.


 
  
 Could be paying for the patented invention, where as opensource hardware is cheap and hackability.


----------



## Steve Eddy

axis1 said:


> Could be paying for the patented invention, where as opensource hardware is cheap and hackability.




I'm sure they recouped the patent costs years ago. They filed for the patent back in 2003 (it was grated in 2007), and have been using it in their regular MIT cables for years.

http://www.google.com/patents/US7242780

se


----------



## AxelCloris

I've mentioned a couple of places in the thread about a basic adapter coming included with the Vero but I've been informed by MIT that one does not come included with the Vero and will need to be purchased separately for those who need one. All Vero will be terminated with a 4-pin XLR. I've updated my posts throughout the thread to reflect this.


----------



## Audio Addict

Is that a change from the campaign as I thought you could select the termination?


----------



## Axis1

From the start Kim told that Vero adapter is seperated from Vero cables.


audio addict said:


> Is that a change from the campaign as I thought you could select the termination?


 
  
 From the start Kim messaged me that Vero adapter is optional and separated from Vero cables, can be use together or solo either ones. Noted that adding adapter will decrease quality by about 10% iirc, even confusing over the purpose of adapter and how its look like? Kim and Bruce might come up with a chart soon.


----------



## AxelCloris

audio addict said:


> Is that a change from the campaign as I thought you could select the termination?


 
  
 XLR terminated. The option you can select is which termination you need for your headphones. The cable is balanced by design.


----------



## Audio Addict

axis1 said:


> From the start Kim told that Vero adapter is seperated from Vero cables.
> 
> From the start Kim messaged me that Vero adapter is optional and separated from Vero cables, can be use together or solo either ones. Noted that adding adapter will decrease quality by about 10% iirc, even confusing over the purpose of adapter and how its look like? Kim and Bruce might come up with a chart soon.




Thanks



axelcloris said:


> XLR terminated. The option you can select is which termination you need for your headphones. The cable is balanced by design.




Thanks


----------



## Axis1

steve eddy said:


> I'm sure they recouped the patent costs years ago. They filed for the patent back in 2003 (it was grated in 2007), and have been using it in their regular MIT cables for years.
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US7242780
> 
> se


 
  
 Patent need to be renew every few years at less than the initial costs.
  
 Other costs I think it went into the soldering parts in the Vero enclosure box between the cables which I assume it uses silver or any lead free to assure its quality Vero can bring. I just realised this when reading an article, I assume you have read it 
 http://headphone.guru/cables/


----------



## Steve Eddy

axis1 said:


> Patent need to be renew every few years at less than the initial costs.




At 7.5 years, MIT would have to pay an $1,800 maintenance fee. And MIT sells a huge variety of audio cables, not just Vero. An 8 foot bi wire set of speaker cables sell for $50,000. I can buy a damn nice car for $50,000. But this is just an 8 foot set of wires. So I don't see that an $1,800 maintenance fee is playing any role here.




> Other costs I think it went into the soldering parts in the Vero enclosure box between the cables which I assume it uses silver or any lead free to assure its quality Vero can bring.




From what I can gather, it's the same cable, just 9 more "articulation poles" which are just some SMD parts on a circuit board. But a $400 increase in price.




> I just realised this when reading an article, I assume you have read it
> http://headphone.guru/cables/




Haven't read it. I've no interest in it.

se


----------



## seeteeyou

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vero-revolutionary-headphone-cable/x/6703892
  
 It's finally done and we'll have some fun this fall.


----------



## Axis1

seeteeyou said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vero-revolutionary-headphone-cable/x/6703892
> 
> It's finally done and we'll have some fun this fall.


 
  
 Good luck, I think only certain headphones will benefit it, if anyone using low-end headphone, they'll hear a small improvement.
  
 For anyone info, Full-range cables is mentioned to be a v-shaped and Reference Full-range cables is I assume to be linear.


----------



## AxelCloris

axis1 said:


> Good luck, I think only certain headphones will benefit it, if anyone using low-end headphone, they'll hear a small improvement.
> 
> For anyone info, Full-range cables is mentioned to be a v-shaped and Reference Full-range cables is I assume to be linear.


 
  
 Please note that my exact words were "...I would say that the Full Range has a very shallow V shaped sound (key word: very) while the Reference is even across the whole spectrum."


----------



## Axis1

Towards the end of campaign, I have backed out when Davies from Flare technology is a completely different approach to any other manufacturer that their R2PRO IEM is capable of retain a completely accurate of high, mid and low range sound without adding distortion as with many traditional earphones and headphones does. I think you will like to own that at 50%.
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/584645150/flare-audio-a-revolution-in-pure-sound
  
 This is to show my appreciate to AxelCloris and other members who have tested Vero cables in desire for clarity sounds, I thought Flare Audio has an advanced technology that aren't possible for this price and size.


----------



## Axis1

Sorry forgot the link
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/flare-audio-r2pro-earphones/reviews/13250


----------



## adobotj

Will the Vero dongles make any real improvements? If I understood their explanation correctly, they improve the "signal path" of the/their cables with their multipole technology and making the signal equal and even across the audible sound spectrum to provide an un-colored, fuller sound that makes it true to its source. 

I can see that it might work for their line of replacement cables but I can't see it work on their dongles as the signal AFTER passing the dongle still goes through the stock cables sound sig. 

If a stock cable for example is known as bright, the dongle may fill up the bass frequencies and make it even but in turn may overemphasize the mids and treble sections thus making the sound brighter but with a bit bass. In my opinion it will not "improve" the sound as it will not be true to the source and overemphasize elements in the music. 

I'm not sure if I can understand correctly though hence this post. The reason why I'm asking this is that although I'm not a fan of aftermarket cables, I am curious about this type of cable because of its technology. 

Cheers!


----------



## AxelCloris

adobotj said:


> Will the Vero dongles make any real improvements? If I understood their explanation correctly, they improve the "signal path" of the/their cables with their multipole technology and making the signal equal and even across the audible sound spectrum to provide an un-colored, fuller sound that makes it true to its source.
> 
> I can see that it might work for their line of replacement cables but I can't see it work on their dongles as the signal AFTER passing the dongle still goes through the stock cables sound sig.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can assure you that the dongle absolutely makes a noticeable change in the sound. If it's an improvement is completely subjective but to me, yes it does. I don't hide the fact that I'm not a fan of the EL-8 but I got to listen to it through a Vero Dongle and it was definitely a change for the better. Sure it's not as influential as a full cable replacement but the EL-8 has those proprietary connectors that only they use. The open-back EL-8 sounded best to me when paired with the both the Vero and Vero Bass dongles in the chain. That said, I still wouldn't buy an EL-8.
  
 I'm not sure my analogy is the best but here is how I see the Vero Dongle working in a system. If you have a normal cable, the signal flows normally. With the Vero Full Range, imagine that it's putting a spin on the signal, so to speak, and continues applying that spin through the entire length of the cable. Now the Vero Dongle might be a mix of the two. Imagine that it's putting the spin on the signal but as it enters the stock cable the spin is gradually lessened the farther it goes. Similar to this pretty cool water faucet.
  




  
 The lattice pattern has larger openings the farther it makes it from the source. It's still very obviously affected by the fixture but not to the same degree as if that spin was applied the whole way down into the sink. Of course this is just how I think of the Vero Dongle in my mind. For all I know this may not be an accurate analogy at all.
  
 I'm not an EE so I can't say precisely how the Vero Dongle has modified the sound but I can say that having it in front of a stock cable makes a difference to my ears. Whether or not it's an improvement will all come down to the person on the other end of the headphones.


----------



## adobotj

Thank you AxelCloris! Now I'm very interested in the Vero dongle. I might buy one already. The reason I'm interested in the dongle is because I have an audeze and alpha dogs and they both terminate balanced xlr's. Buying the dongle with the xlr connections is like hitting two birds with one stone for me. I can use the Vero on both headphones in that manner as opposed to buying two separate Vero cables for each headphones. 

So, I might try the dongle  thank you!

Cheers!


----------



## wingsounds13

Today I received my Vero Full Range cable. It is terminated with Audeze mini XLR on the headphone end and 4 pin XLR on the amp end. Very nice. There is one *major* issue though: on the XLR-4 connector at the amp end pins 2 and 4 (L- and R-) are shorted together! This is bad news for some amps I know, and possibly many headphone amps with a balanced output connector. This configuration is as designed and built from the factory.

I find it difficult to believe that they did not know of headphone amps being built that use complementary signals for the outputs. Worse yet, that they did not consider that if these pins needed to be common that this would not be done in the amp. It seems reasonable to me that since there are four pins for separate signals then none should be shorted together in the cable.

I have already spoken with several people and I hope that they are on their way to resolving this design flaw, and soon. As it is, I have a cable that is useless as-is and will have to be returned for replacement when they resolve this issue.

Really... why have four pins if there are only three signal values (Left, Right and Ground)? This alone should have been a clue.

J.P.


----------



## Audio Addict

Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe they basically made them useless as you can't take the risk on the amp.


----------



## wingsounds13

From my talks with several people there, I am reasonably sure that they are going to correct this issue. How long? No guess yet. I also believe that they will replace the few "balanced" cables that have been shipped.

I can only assume that the adapter dongles are wired the same as the cables.

J.P.


----------



## Audio Addict

The scary part is they are a cable company that has been around for sometime. How would they arrive at this setup?


----------



## wingsounds13

I can't fathom this either. They talked with other manufacturers and the only way I can see them getting here is some miscommunication. It seems pretty obvious to me, but I am not everyone and maybe I see things differently than most.

J.P.


----------



## Audio Addict

wingsounds13 said:


> I can't fathom this either. They talked with other manufacturers and the only way I can see them getting here is some miscommunication. It seems pretty obvious to me, but I am not everyone and maybe I see things differently than most.
> 
> J.P.




I am surprised Kim has not sent out any notice of a delay to get things straightened out.


----------



## seeteeyou

> Hey guys.. first of all, we are shipping weekly as the cables are being built and tested. Once they give me tracking numbers I try and send them out as soon as I get them.
> 
> Secondly, regarding the “balanced cable” discussion, I have consulted with Bruce Brisson and Aaron Reiff who are going to provide a complete technical explanation and add clarity for you very soon and will provide it in an update. Sorry for any confusion, and I promise we are shipping as quickly as possible!


 
  
  


> The Vero Full Range and the Vero Reference Cable come in the standard 1.5 meters, which is just under 5 feet. For custom lengths, the cost will be charged by the foot.
> 
> *Vero Full Range - $20 per extra foot*
> 
> *Vero Reference Cable - $30 per extra foot*


 
  


> ATTENTION VERO BACKERS! KIM SCREWED UP!
> 
> Okay.. so please forgive me! Sometimes when we are overloaded with messages, Backer Surveys, Order Confirmations and coming off of hosting and planning your sons wedding, things get mis-communicated!
> *REGARDING THE VERO CABLE LENGTHS:*
> ...


 
  
  


> I received my reward, one “Vero Adapter Dongle”, not test it now.
> The package have a shipping charge label, it marked USD$26.50, but MIT charged me USD$45 by paypal, I think I won’t buy anything from MIT anymore


 
  
  
 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vero-revolutionary-headphone-cable#/comments
  
 The whole campaign was pretty much like a mess, now I just feel like a chump or something.
  
 At least I pretended that I wasn't getting my survey on May 31st and then I tried my best to submit that as late as possible. An update about the survey was announced on June 14th and then I was having a tough time to get in touch with Kim via e-mail. 1st message was sent on 17th and the second one on 22nd. I couldn't get a reply until a complaint was sent to MIT directly and finally got the link to survey on 24th.
  
 I didn't even need the extra length to begin with but I still paid for an extra meter anyways since it's taking more time to make longer ones, I thought that maybe the guinea pigs with the 1.5-meter standard length would get a lemon and therefore another mess will follow suit. That turned out to be exactly what's happening at the moment and All Hail to the Murphy's Law.


----------



## wingsounds13

What technical explanation and what clarity? It is pretty simple: the balanced headphone connection was created to completely separate the left and right channel cans. Two wires per side so there cannot be any power interaction between sides as does happen with the standard unbalanced style with a common ground.

Four pins, four wires - how simple can it be? Why on earth have four pins if you are going to tie two together to a single ground wire - in which case you might as well have the old standard 1/4" TRS connector. Either they replace the 3 wire "balanced" cables with proper 4 wire cables or they lose *ALL* credibility as an audiophile cable company.

Incredible!

J.P.


----------



## Hercules

Hercules Cheung less than a minute ago

 Shorted common ground maybe intended?

 Bruce posted this photo in Vero forum and later deleted just have 2 wires and common ground via shielding 



  
 but this photo posted in early campaign dated in April 2015 shown the dongle with 4 wires in difference color and 2 set identical circuits with 2 wires each side.

  
 can anyone still have balanced VERO can open up and connector and take a photo?

 I suspect MIT is delivering something difference from campaigned!!


----------



## Hercules

http://beta-forum.mitcables.com/posts/nhir3MLYyxHTaij5r/vero-4-pin-xlr-balanced-discussion-update-that-was-posted-on
  
 forum link


----------



## Audio Addict

hercules said:


> http://beta-forum.mitcables.com/posts/nhir3MLYyxHTaij5r/vero-4-pin-xlr-balanced-discussion-update-that-was-posted-on
> 
> forum link




Thanks


----------



## abernardi

Wow, I didn't check my email for a while and I guess I'm just lucky.   I got the balanced full range and bass dongle in the mail last week and then yesterday I took them to the Questyle intro event in Torrance for their new DAP (which is EXCELLENT, BTW).  Audeze was there showing off their new LCD-4 and they had a Moon balanced headphone amp there, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to put these cables up against the ones they had there and Kimber was also there with a new headphone cable, so I did a little 3 way shootout.  Luckily the Moon amp must have had a common ground in their connector on their amp (I'm not well versed in all this, so if I have this wrong, please forgive and enlighten me...), because it played just fine.  Well, actually, the DAC crashed initially and we had to restart everything, but I don't think that was from the cable, since it did eventually work, right?
 Anyway, it was hard to hear a difference because the room was pretty loud and I didn't have enough time to really make a good evaluation.  I just checked the bass dongle and it does indeed seem to have a common ground.


----------



## seeteeyou

> All of the Dongles ordered were with Tip Ring Sleeve.
> 
> All products, Cables and Dongles fitted with the Tip Ring Sleeve are safe to use and reportedly delivering all of the performance that is associated with MIT Multipole products.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What exactly does it mean and what are they smoking? You can't deliver any kinda performance unless you've got the wiring right.
  
 We must have *Tip Ring Ring Sleeve* for fully balanced setup and right now they're still talking about *Tip Ring Sleeve*.


----------



## wingsounds13

When they are talking about TRS they are referring to the classic unbalanced three wire headphone cables: Left, Right, Ground. With the Vero, all of the unbalanced three conductor configurations are just fine.

What they did that is absolutely unfathomable and spectacularly stupid is to put 4 pin XLR connectors on this same three conductor cable, with pins 2 and 4 (Left- and Right-) shorted together and called it "balanced". Apparently they were fixated on the technical fact that very few *amplifiers* are truly balanced topology, thus thought they could ignore the cable itself being a balanced configuration. In fact, they claim that they did not know that there were *ANY* balanced amps in production and were apparently ignorant of or totally ignoring the presence of the many bridged amps available. All of this ignores the prime reason for using the " balanced" headphone cable configuration - that being the complete electrical separation of the left and right channels.

As others have said, it seems obvious that they are just now entering the headphone field and have done almost *no* research into the field, what is commonly used and why, and what equipment is soon to be and/or currently in production. While this gives me some concern about their new headphone cables, worse yet it gives me *great concern* about MIT Cables as a company and their competency in the field.

I have long had serious reservations about adding crap to the cable in the form of their network box, and have never had a desire to have any of their interconnects. I bought into the indiegogo Vero campaign because I was curious, had gotten caught up in the hype, and the early backer price was not too bad. Only time will tell as to whether I keep the cable and use it, or sell it and move on to something more conventional. Regardless, this may be the last signal product I buy from MIT. I have one of their power line filters that I need to test for efficacy, and if it does work to improve the sound of my system, I may buy more filters and/or power cables.. Maybe.

J.P.


----------



## mscott58

To add to the fun, I just got the following RMA email regarding the VERO "balanced" Reference HP cable (yes, I'm one of the lucky 14):
  
_"Thank you for your letter, your RMA number is #XYZ . We are in the process of final testing of the "balanced" design as promised. I would expect to ship your replacement unit before the end of the month. We are very sorry for the inconvenience, so thanks for hanging in there! _
  
_We would appreciate it if you would return the defective unit to: _
  
_MIT Cables_
_ATTN: RMA _
_4130 Citrus Ave, Ste 5_
_Rocklin CA. 95677_
  
_Please let me know when you have placed it in the mail, so we can watch for it? _
_Cheers, Kent"_
  
 Notice anything missing? Yep, *no offer to pay for postage*, even though that's exactly what Bruce promised in the MIT Forums:
  
_"Out of approximately 400 Cables and Dongles sold only 14-Twisted Pair / Balanced Cables were improperly assembled and tested and we have asked those people to send an Email to MIT requesting a Return Authorization._
_We will replace the defective 14-Balanced / Twisted Pair Cables and pay freight both directions._

_Cheers, Bruce"_
 
This just keeps getting better and better. Too bad they didn't have their ever-present camera that they have at their booths filming our faces during this past week of continued dropped balls. 
 
Hope this gets cleared up ASAP. Emailed Kent and Kim back and hopefully they don't try to find a way out of paying for postage for something that was clearly their screw-up. 
 
Cheers


----------



## wingsounds13

Yes, Bruce did state that they would pay shipping both ways, and this seems reasonable, considering that this was their error that requires correction.

Oh, Wow! you mean to say that LH Labs is not the only audiophile company that has internal communication issues? 

J.P.


----------



## sealykojac

FYI My RMA email states that postage will be refunded with the new cable that is delivered.
  


> We would appreciate it if you would return the defective unit to:
> 
> MIT Cables
> ATTN: RMA
> ...


----------



## mscott58

sealykojac said:


> FYI My RMA email states that postage will be refunded with the new cable that is delivered.


 
 Ah, looks like they just added that after my little tantrum. 
  
 Got an email from Kent making nice:
  
_"Hello Michael: We will refund your postage once we see what it was, and will include it in the return of the correct SKU. Please note that we have not been shy about the comment "everything is free of cost"._
  
_We are working hard to please everyone, so please know our hearts are in the right place. _
_Thanks, Kent"_
  
 So that's better, but would have been better to state upfront. Lesson learned (hopefully). 
  
 Cheers


----------



## seeteeyou

It's so weird, they're sending me PayPal request on 28th because my Vero "balanced" cable is ready to be shipped already.
  
 No kidding, did they actually order new circuit boards or what? They just posted an update 10 days ago and then never confirmed whether Vero "balanced" cables were fixed or otherwise
  
 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vero-revolutionary-headphone-cable#/updates


----------



## wingsounds13

I have seen some pictures of the board and for the 14 or so who selected the balanced option for the indiegogo campaign cables, they may just be hand modifying the board by cutting a couple of traces and soldering wires to the separated traces.

It is possible that they got a quick turn batch of boards for us too, as it would be a really simple mod to the layout. Certainly they will have boards made for any future production of the balanced versions and they could write off the costs of doing a quick batch against development and/or future sales.

J.P.


----------



## oneguy

Only 14 people ordered balanced cables in the entire campaign?


----------



## wingsounds13

That is a big surprise to me as well, but is the number reported by MIT. Supposedly this includes cables and dongles. I selected balanced partially because I do intend to use it with a balanced amp (LH Labs Pulse X∞), but figured I could easily use an adapter with an unbalanced headphone output - you can't do it the other way.

J.P.


----------



## oneguy

I believe they said only 14 faulty wired cables had shipped.


----------



## Audio Addict

oneguy said:


> I believe they said only 14 faulty wired cables had shipped.


 
 That makes more sense as I ordered 2 and 1 dongle with the 4 pin xlr and I haven't receive anything yet.


----------



## wingsounds13

That makes more sense. I guess that I missed that detail in my reading of the posts.

One thing that I find curious is that the original indiegogo Vero campaign story page had pictures of balanced cables, and originally the headphone connector chart listed all cables as balanced XLR-4 with a note above the table indicating the inclusion of a balanced XLR-4 to unbalanced 1/4" TRS adapter. This led me to believe that they understood what a 'balanced' headphone cable was and that it was in basic ways superior to the unbalanced L, R, ground type of cable. Even if the connector is an unbalanced TRS style, the sound benefits from having four separate wires (L, LGround, R, RGround). Most audiophile cables seem to be built this way, so I am extremely surprised that MIT would save a few pennies per cable by going with the inferior three wire system that you would find in cheap cables. Not exactly confidence inspiring. I find this to be a basic, deep disappointment with MIT's design choices that inspires me to not purchase any more MIT products, at least not signal cables. I might buy more power cable products, I have a Predator 6 and it seems to be okay.

J.P.


----------



## oneguy

I have a Predator 6 but I hear no difference from it. I am running off of 107v @ 50hz here in Japan. The only reason I haven't sold it is because of off chance it may make a difference when I get back to the US. However, I was told that it would work with northern Japan power.


----------



## oneguy

Anyone received their Vero Reference or Full Range cable yet? The Internet seems offly quiet on the Vero cables front considering they are supposed to be done shipping in 1 week.


----------



## DVass13

Same here, I haven't heard anything in weeks. I pretty much forgot that I even ordered one :-/


----------



## Audio Addict

I thought the same and decided too sent Kim an email earlier this week asking if she had any updates on meeting the end of November for getting everything shipped. 

I have not heard anything yet.


----------



## oneguy

Her newest comment in the campaign comments section said as of 2 days ago they plan to have all of them shipped by December 4th. With a deadline so close it's odd that there are no incoming shipping posts, impression posts, or the inevitable cable for sale thread. It's very odd.


----------



## Audio Addict

I was just out on Indiegogo and her last update was 3 weeks ago. I wonder why they would not send out an official notice of another delay??


----------



## wingsounds13

I do wonder about getting all cables shipped by December 4 (one week from today). I received one of the first (defective) XLR cables and had to return it RMA for replacement with a properly built balanced cable. I am still waiting to hear about my replacement balanced full range cable, as well as a balanced full range dongle and 'adapter' dongle. Curious to hear what they will do for my headphones.

J.P.


----------



## mscott58

Latest update from this week. 

First from Kim:

"Hi Michael, 
I’ve been told that we should have all the XLR cables (including the RMA’s replacements) sent by December 4th if not sooner. 
I’ll take a look and confirm with Kent and Kellee. 
Again, I apologize for this inconvenience, and appreciate your patience. 
Thanks Michael!
Kim"


Next the follow up from Kent:

"Hello Everybody: Yes, the schedule is by Dec 4, everything out. Kellee is handling the refunded postage on RMA's and is also monitoring throughput. To define one order in a queue of ~150 is impossible, because the process of manufacturing many skus at once is much like a funnel of common parts that go through a system with other common parts, and lengths. They all come out eventually, and very soon!
Cheers, Kent"


----------



## Audio Addict

mscott58 said:


> Latest update from this week.
> 
> First from Kim:
> 
> ...




Thanks. I don't understand why they don't put out an official update


----------



## oneguy

Still no shipping notice for me. Unless they plan on executing a mass shipment all on Friday it seems they will miss 4 Dec. 

One thing that I thought of this morning is I wonder how the color of the boxes got messed up which caused the first delay. You would think that any manufacturer worth their salt would do even a rudimentary quality assurance check 
Dimensions. Check 
Number of holes. Check
Color. Hmm...either they said they want it black or they definitely don't want it black. Oh well *uck it.

That kind of a color difference is the low hanging fruit of quality control.


----------



## wingsounds13

I received one of the first (defective) balanced cables shipped and alerted everyone to the design flaw. I returned my cable for replacement with the corrected product and also have not yet received a shipping notice. I too strongly suspect that they will miss the Dec. 4 date. This is a bit irritating, but of no real consequence beyond that. I do believe that they will ship soon, I just wonder when 'soon' will be.


J.P.


----------



## Audio Addict

Guess what showed today. Both my balanced cables and the balanced bass dongle.


----------



## Audio Addict




----------



## oneguy

Pics or it didn't happen 
J/k


----------



## Audio Addict

I can see them, not sure why you can't. I will try to upload again tonight.


----------



## Audio Addict

Let's try this.


----------



## oneguy

Negative


----------



## Audio Addict

oneguy said:


> Negative


 
 Look above now.


----------



## oneguy

audio addict said:


> Look above now.




Great success! I am looking forward to your impressions. Did you go Full Range or Reference?


----------



## mscott58

oneguy said:


> Great success! I am looking forward to your impressions. Did you go Full Range or Reference?
> 
> 
> From the picture it looks like Full


----------



## oneguy

Ah I see it now. Nice sleuthing.


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## Audio Addict

oneguy said:


> Great success! I am looking forward to your impressions. Did you go Full Range or Reference?




Even with the Indiegogo price the Reference was more than double the price. I just couldn't talk myself into it. 

Cavalli Audio suggested 150 hours of breakin for the Liquid Carbon. MIT suggest 48 hours will give you 75% of the benefit but full breakin requires 2 weeks. I have about 30 hours on the bass dongle and Audeze 4 meter cable.

If anyone is interested, I have a 4 meter OPPO terminated full range as I was thinking about getting the HE1K but decided against it for now but it was too late to change the connectors.


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## oneguy

Is that 14 days @ 24 hours a day or some duty cycle other than 100%?


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## Audio Addict

oneguy said:


> Is that 14 days @ 24 hours a day or some duty cycle other than 100%?




I believe so as it indicates to log hours to track if not left continously on.


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## oneguy

Holy shnikes! 336 hours seems like quite a bit of recommended burn in time. That kind of makes me wish I had dummy load (read: headphones I don't care about) to leave plugged in for 2 weeks straight.


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## oneguy

Any one get a shipping email?


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## Audio Addict

I did not get a shipping notice, they just showed up last Thursday.


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## maxcat

Yay!

>We are happy to let you know that your Vero order has shipped!


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## wingsounds13

I'm sorry... you were better off without that POS. If you waited a bit you might have gotten an upgrade to the much better IEM-X cheap.

J.P.


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## oneguy

Is that sarcasm I detect J.P.?



wingsounds13 said:


> I'm sorry... you were better off without that POS. If you waited a bit you might have gotten an upgrade to the much better IEM-X cheap.
> 
> J.P.


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## wingsounds13

Oops... misread / wrong thread. I should pay more attention to where I am. This is Vero, not Verb. 

The Vero is interesting and I can't wait to audition my own. Still, upon further consideration, it may have its issues, like high resistance.

J.P.


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## oneguy

I called because I never received a shipping notice. It looks like it shipped on the 4th so hopefully I will have it by Monday.


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## pkwak

Is there any impressions?


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## Audio Addict

pkwak said:


> Is there any impressions?


 
  
 I have been been trying to follow the MIT break in process but I think I will rely on the instructions from my Purist Audio CD which says using their CD, full break in on a new equipment cable is running the CD 5 times which is roughly 6 1/2 hours.  I just finished it yesterday and haven't really spent time listening yet.  I was breaking in the Fostex THx00 from the Massdrop and added the VERO through the Liquid Carbon.  I hope to get some time this weekend.
  
 One comment I have noticed is the  Bass Dongle does not really seem to be any value with the Full Range cable as I didn't discern any immediate difference on a with / without basis but I will try again when I listen this weekend.


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## johnkkraus

I have the Vero Reference for Audeze on one end and 1/4" stereo plug on the other, as well as the Bass Dongle. Might be selling, if anyone interested PM me.


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## bozebuttons

No notice for me yet.


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## mscott58

bozebuttons said:


> No notice for me yet.


 
 Me either. 

 Which version did you order? 
  
 Cheers


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## bozebuttons

2 referance cables ,bass dongle, rca & xlr dongle


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## Noodlz

I finally just got my vero cables! HOLY GOD THESE THINGS ARE AMAZING. I got the universal full dongle balanced, bass dongle balanced, adapt dongle balanced to 1/4, and the full reference cables in audeze mini xlrs. Listening to my new HE400i its a completely different headphone. It's now in the LCD2, maybe very close to LCD3's league in terms of clarity and realism. Adele has never sounded this good except when i had the LCD3's. The dongles have transformed my DT880s too. it had amazing vocals before when hooked uped to my valhalla 2s, but now the vocals are breathtaking when using the adapters. 
  
 Still burning in my THx00 right now (got them today to along with the cables), can't wait until everything burns in. As is right now i think its worth every penny.
  
 Side note: I was chatting with a co-worker about my new cables, and him being a trained engineer, was extremely doubtful (note not just skeptical, but doubtful), especially when he heard the price tag. He was thinking that this cable thing is ridiculous and it couldn't possibly make much of a difference....and so i let him listen. and he was honestly shocked how it actually does make a difference. lol


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## mscott58

Looks like more problems down in Vero land. Just got this email: 

"Dear Michael: You are receiving this notice because your order has not shipped as planned. We were successful in shipping 90% of our goal by last Tuesday, but today it is clear we are unable to recover the lost time from the Thanksgiving holiday, a 4 day break.

They tell me that 15 out of 17 would consider this a "belated success", but the other 2 will feel like it is a "colossal disappointment". Fortunately, this is nothing that a little more time won't cure, but it still feels like a broken promise to you, I'm sure. I am very sorry for the extended delay. After the RMA debacle, I realize this is another draw on your patience.

For the most part we have parts we need to finish, but there are supplier backlogs for Mr. Speaker, HiFi Man and Sennheiser that UPS and FedEx have yet to deliver. Both companies report huge increases in online shopping is clogging their arteries. Regardless, most of the delay is due to the limits of labor hours. It was a lot more labor than we planned, due to the sheer number of orders with broad variances, changes and custom order requests. Last count we had 59 variances from the original design. We don't like to say "no", and "yes" has gotten us into a little difficulty with our friends! Soon, it will be over so please stand by for your next update. 

At the worst, the factory Manager says we are another 10 days from the finish so your order is in the final queue, and will soon be on the way. Many thanks for your tolerance and extended patience. 
Kent"

After the mess-up with the "balanced" cables and then promises about ship dates this is more salt in the wound, especially since my connectors are for Audeze, which is not on the the list of delayed suppliers. And no refund yet as promised of the return shipping charges from the "bad" first set of cables. 

And no "in light of these issues we're going to make up for it by..." type of outreach, which would have been nice. 

Ugh.


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## AxelCloris

mscott58 said:


> After the mess-up with the "balanced" cables and then promises about ship dates this is more salt in the wound, especially since my connectors are for Audeze, which is not on the the list of delayed suppliers. And no refund yet as promised of the return shipping charges from the "bad" first set of cables.
> 
> And no "in light of these issues we're going to make up for it by..." type of outreach, which would have been nice.
> 
> Ugh.


 
  
 Kent told me that the RMA shipping costs would be reimbursed by a check included with our Vero when they ship.


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## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> Kent told me that the RMA shipping costs would be reimbursed by a check included with our Vero when they ship.


 
 Cool. Thanks for the info Brian! This wasn't made clear in the messaging from MIT but sounds like an understandable and logical approach. Cheers


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## oneguy

My Vero Reference cable and Full Range dongle came in today! I have the Reference cable burning in right now but the initial take on it is a definate improvement over my Norne Solve X for my HE1000. I also heard a positive difference with my HD800 and stock cable as well. I am really looking forward to doing a better listen at the two day burn in point.


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## magliner0316

My order was promised from end of Sept until now.  
 No words and delay email from them.  
 It was always me ask Kim for the update.  
 First was "oh they send out to the wrong person with same name (?)".  
 The rest emails were always promising to ship out next week but ended up ask them again weeks later where my order was.
 And of course, the answer is always the same, they will ship out next week.
  
 I totally gave up hope for receiving the cable...


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## johnkkraus

Any comparisons out there between the Vero Reference and the Double Helix Comp 4 Copper? Thanks


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## abernardi

Gee Johnkkraus, funny you ask...
  
 OK, I just received the replacement balanced full range and bass dongle cables with Audeze ends a couple days ago and did a bit of comparisons tonight.  I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised.  I was very skeptical and some of my observations were unexpected.
  
 First on my LCD 2.2, I normally use with a balanced DHC Nucleotide cable that Benjamin here made for me.  This cable is a huge improvement over the stock cable.  I recently got the Cavalli Carbon amp and they all work well together.  First I tried just adding the bass dongle to the DHC cable and have to say the bass dongle had almost no effect at all to my ear.  Then I swapped out the DHC for the MIT w/o bass dongle and the whole presentation was slightly more detailed, particularly in the highs.  I heard more presence and better separation of the instruments.  However, this was at the expense of body and weight. And the vocals sounded slightly artificial in comparison.   Overall I found the DHC cable to be more involving and organic.  It reminded me of rolling tubes, you always pay for an improvement in one area by sacrificing something in another area...  
  
 Next I tried the bass dongle on my HD800 with the Anax Mod and a PCOCC balanced cable Sonny over at Audiocircle made for me.  This is a great cable, all my interconnects and speaker cables are made from this.  First I played the same material that I had been listening to on the Audeze headphones and as you may know, the character of the HD800 is very different from the LCD 2.2.  There was much more detail in the high end and the bass seemed seriously anemic, especially after listening to the LCD for a while.  But when I added the dongle, WOW!  The low end came alive and got real weighty, without interfering with the mids or highs.  The detail remained, in fact it increased in the low end but was weightier too.  That was a very welcomed improvement.  I also noticed in "Sing, Sing, Sing" from the Swing Kids soundtrack, there's a section where there's some incredible Tuba and Trombone action, but the acoustic bass is plucking along as well.  I didn't hear this in the LCD's with either cable or the HD800 until I added the bass dongle, so that tells me the dongle really helped not just add body, but separation and detail.  
  
 More listening to come, particularly classical and rock next...  as it stands, I will be using the bass dongle with the HD800's for now!


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## Hercules

Anyone found on cable body, the Vero Cable wiring made from Mogami 2893 Neglex Mini Quad?


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## magliner0316

I am done with MIT cables and their future products.
  
 Both Kim and Kent showed irresponsibility on my delayed order and expect me to accept their fault of delaying.
  
 If they told me I would get it at end of Dec, I'm totally fine with that.
 But they lied and kept postponing the date without telling me for at least 3 times.
 I have now a highly doubt on their company's reputation!!
  
 At least to me, I will not fund and buy any of their product in the future.
  
 Good luck for those still waiting their cables!!!


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## Audio Addict

hercules said:


> Anyone found on cable body, the Vero Cable wiring made from Mogami 2893 Neglex Mini Quad?




I have a 4-meter Full Range cable but did not find any markings. However, it would not surprise me as MIT is about the network box, not the cable.


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## Bevo

Out of the box i found the cable to increase clarity on my HD800 but it has definitely reduced the spaciousness/airiness or the headphone. Hoping burn in will fix this. Apparently 2 days 75% performance, 2 weeks 100% performance.
  
 I did come from a single ended connector to to a 4pin XLR though so perhaps the changes in clarity may be from that?


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## oneguy

bevo said:


> Out of the box i found the cable to increase clarity on my HD800 but it has definitely reduced the spaciousness/airiness or the headphone. Hoping burn in will fix this. Apparently 2 days 75% performance, 2 weeks 100% performance.
> 
> I did come from a single ended connector to to a 4pin XLR though so perhaps the changes in clarity may be from that?



Which cable or dongle?


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## Bevo

oneguy said:


> Which cable or dongle?


 

 The full range cable


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## oneguy

What do you guys think of re-cabling a Vero Reference cable? I listened to my HE1000 with the Wywires Red headphone cable and the soundstage was greatly increased compared to the Vero Reference cable. The soundstage was at HD800 levels. The only downside is the mids were suffering. I wonder if using Wywires Red cabling with the Vero box will result in the best of both worlds?


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## Audio Addict

Maybe you should talk with Alex about auditioning the new Platinum?


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## oneguy

That is an option. I could have sworn I saw a page for them and an introductory discount but I went looking again and couldn't find it. If I remember correctly the discount ended in May.


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## Audio Addict

oneguy said:


> That is an option. I could have sworn I saw a page for them and an introductory discount but I went looking again and couldn't find it. If I remember correctly the discount ended in May.




With the Newport Show this weekend, I would think Alex would still want you to audition his latest.


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## oneguy

I'll contact him and give it a shot


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## sixtytwo

Does anyone have try the VERO reference cable and dongle or any other VERO on the LCD3? Can you gave me an impression and may be any suggestion of others choice of cable? Please . Also VERO dongle+others cable in combination experiences are welcome.

 I am looking for a upgrade cable for my LCD3. I will provide a bit more data if you may need. I normally listen to jazz, bossa, bigband, easylistinning and some pop, rock and I prefer female vocals over male. 

Thank you.


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