# Xonar Essence STX: Sneak Peek!



## ROBSCIX

Hey Guys, I figure many of you here may be interested in some new information about the upcoming Xonar Essence STX card. Have a look: HERE

 HWC actually has a engineering sample of the card and we will be looking it over with a magnifying glass and testing it fully to see what it has to offer the headphone and audio communities. Do we have any opinions, suggestions or comments on this card?


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## Alydon

I for one am very psyched about this card and will probably buy one the moment it comes out. 

 I'm curious to see how the 1792 DAC and new grounding circuitry help improve its sound over the HDAV (my current source). The HDAV already sounds better than the D2 I had previously (which in itself was a wonderful card).

 Any chance HWC can include at least subjective tests of the Essence w/ different opamps installed? Specifically the LT1361, which for me significantly improved the highs on the HDAV. They sounded kind of flat and "digital" with the stock LM4562, but became more airy, liquid, and 3-Dimensional w/ the 1361.

 Also, any idea when this thing is going to be released? Asus's press release at ASUSTeK Computer Inc. doesn't say anything about when it comes out...

 And what's the diff between the AV100 and AV200?


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## finaxe

Latest news: Early December and rated at about 1999 Yuan... (340$CAN)


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## Alydon

Cool, $279US isn't too horrendously priced. About what I expected. 

 Where'd you hear this? Did they have any other juicy details not-yet released?


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## jenneth

According to this, it's recommended street price is around €199.


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## Seamless Sounds

I don't think it will beat dedicated head amps, but how will it fare as a DAC? We'll just have to wait and see then.


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## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadFi Fanatic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think it will beat dedicated head amps..._

 

You're right, it wouldn't. I have a Claro Halo, and it's on-board headphone amp is very mediocre (AFAIK, both of these cards use the same TPA6120A2 chip).


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## audionewbieyao

whowa.....

 gimi gimi gimi...

 Nice preview and nice card, i want it...


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jenneth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right, it wouldn't. I have a Claro Halo, and it's on-board headphone amp is very mediocre (AFAIK, both of these cards use the same TPA6120A2 chip)._

 

The amp chip is only part of the picture. You also have the amplification section before it. The Xonar has a impressive amplification section which feeds into this headphone amplifier.

 Look at the specifications of the heapdhone amplifier. If it sounds mediocre to you that would be because of the Halo's supporting circuitry -such as the DAC, filters and opamps prior to the differential inputs on this chip.
 According to the specifications, there is nothing mediocre about this chip. Have a Look:

 0.00014% THD + N 
 Current-Feedback Architecture 
 Greater than 120 dB of Dynamic Range 
 SNR of 120 dB 
 1300 V/μs Slew Rate 
 The fast slew rate, high Dynamic range and low SNR make this a great chip for powering headphones.


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## jenneth

Yes, you're correct in that the Xonar do have very impressive specs. However, you of all people should know that by having impressive specs doesn't necessary mean that it'll have good/great sound quality. Neither one of us have this card, so anything we say here are purely speculative. Like I said on another thread, I'll get the Xonar Essence when it's released, and compare it with my current soundcard. If it offers enough improvement then I'll keep it, otherwise, I'll return it.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp chip is only part of the picture. You also have the amplification section before it. The Xonar has a impressive amplification section which feeds into this headphone amplifier.

 Look at the specifications of the heapdhone amplifier. If it sounds mediocre to you that would be because of the Halo's supporting circuitry -such as the DAC, filters and opamps prior to the differential inputs on this chip.
 According to the specifications, there is nothing mediocre about this chip. Have a Look:

 0.00014% THD + N 
 Current-Feedback Architecture 
 Greater than 120 dB of Dynamic Range 
 SNR of 120 dB 
 1300 V/μs Slew Rate 
 The fast slew rate, high Dynamic range and low SNR make this a great chip for powering headphones._


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## ROBSCIX

Those number I posted are of the amp chip itself. They are hardly mediocre specifications for a headphone amplifer chip. You can only use specifications so much but they do help in giving you a idea of how the part will perform. Low distortion,fast Slew rate, high dynamic range are all measurments designers look for when choosing components. 
 Measurements have their place and they can relay if a part is low,mid or high grade based on the specs. The TI chip is a high quality and nice sounding amplifier if the supporting ciruitry is of similar grade.


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## jenneth

ROBSCIX,

 I never said that the Xonar Essence is going to have a *bad *on-board headphone amp, nor did I say it’s going to be a *mediocre *soundcard. I agree with the fact that it has very impressive specs. But I also mention that I have a soundcard with somewhat similar design/specs as the Xonar Essence. From my personal listening experience, I found HT Omega’s implementation (of its HP amp) to be very mediocre. Will the Xonar Essence blow everything out of the water? Maybe, but at the price point where it is marketed at, it’s unlikely. Let’s just wait until the card is released, and we’ll each have our say in this matter.


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## ROBSCIX

I never said you did. You said the Can amplifer chip was "mediocre" and I said it depends on the supporting circuitry which on the Essence is much better. 
 Both cards contain the same Headphone amplifier but that is where the similarities end. The designs of both cards are different and the specifcations are also much different. I would wait and see official annoucment from ASUS as to price point before putting stock in a post. I think your misunderstanding what I am getting at. Anyway back to the Essence STX...


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## ROBSCIX

Hoping to have some more info, pics and possible listening tests this week. Will post links for you guys who are interested in this new card.


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## audionewbieyao

hi Robscix
 Any update on the test?


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## ROBSCIX

Been testing it for while now. I will post some official results very soon. Stay tuned.


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## leberserkfury

Yay! I'm very interested to upgrade my ..... X-fi gamer. Any thoughts on a top notch DAC to go with these babies?


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## leberserkfury

The DAC will be connected to SDS-XLR, thus it needs to be balanced..... Any input will be greatly appreciated.


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## john5220

I am confident this will blow out even the highest end dedicated AMPS.

 Think about it its ASUS they do not stand for low quality.

 Anyways if I could afford this I would definitely buy it!!!!!!!


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## ROBSCIX

Well the card has some impressive specifications and ASUS quotes specs that are measured with AUdio precision not specificaitons that are form the component. So the ASUS specs are real world..


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## finaxe

The ASUS Xonar Essence STX is now available in Australia and New Zealand through selected electrical retailers and computer resellers. Recommended retail price (inc GST) AU$299, NZ$329.


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## Hottuna_

Australia actually getting something early?
 Thats nice for a change.
 Pretty pricey though.
 Have yet to see it in stores or on any store pricelist.


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## ROBSCIX

@Finaxe, where?


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## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Finaxe, where?_

 

I found this snippet in a article and there weren't a single retailer refered to... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In the other hand, I know that information is true that's because on the site of Asus New Zealand their Xonar Essence STX sound card is announced.


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## koruki

its listed for sale now here in NZ, computerlounge.co.nz
 Gonna see how much I can get for my Xonar D2 and pick one up. Worth it?


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## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koruki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its listed for sale now here in NZ, computerlounge.co.nz
 Gonna see how much I can get for my Xonar D2 and pick one up. Worth it?_

 

That site has it for pre-order only, i.e. - it's not available to them yet. 

 I'd say it's probably worth getting though. It's supposed to sound better than the HDAV 1.3, which in turn sounds better than the D2.


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## ROBSCIX

As far as I know the Essence hasn't been released ANYWHERE yet and if you find it, you are looking at a Pre-order.

 If you are interested in stereo audio/Headphone audio which most are on this site then the Xonar Essence stx is a great sound card.
 The sound quality is very good. Very dynamic, nice tight bass, good midrange without any harshness and there is very good high end extension without any scratchiness.
 I find it has a very warm sound that many soundcards do not have. I enjoy the sound quality of the Essence soundcard very much.

 To note, currently the HDAV 1.3 is the champ of the Xonar line up surpassing all other models. The Xonar Essence will surpass the HDAV 1.3 when released.


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## sonci

"When you think the computer audio is dead, here comes the Xonar.."
 I remember this from a review of the first Asus audio card.
 When Asus released the first Xonar, it was not such a great event, the only peculiar thing I remember was the emi shield of the card, but now I think it was like a revolution in audio..
 The problem with Asus is that they want to be the first in everything they make. Being a superpower, means they can reduce costs.
 I dont think they can go for the professional market of audio(RME, Lynx,..)
 but certainly it`s going to be hard times for small audio hardware makers.
 I`m not a specialist, but when you see the quality built of the Essence, its hard to spent 1000 bucks for an external DAC with old circuits, components or schematics..

 What if they build a high end external DAC, what would be the cost?

 Of course, this is only theory, on the other hand the Essence can sound awful and be a crappy card, regardless of the SNR..
 I`m really impatient of this..


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## ROBSCIX

The Xonar Essence STX sounds awesome from my tests. All of the Xonar cards have provided great sound quality and this card was built to sound good above all else. This is why it uses the high end DAC, high quality audio filtering caps, Power filters..etc..etc.


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## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Xonar Essence STX sounds awsome from my tests._

 

Well, I couldnt test my loudspeakers so I decided to google them around and decided to buy or not.. From every review I found they were nice with nobody complaining about anything.. So I decided to buy them..
 well, you know, I dont like them, I`m not saying they`re bad, I`m saying they sound bad with my amp, cables, source, room, music, ears, otoacustic nerve Brain...
 So, after spending 900eur, and feeling to start over.. Please say " ..sounds awsome to me"


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## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I couldnt test my loudspeakers so I decided to google them around and decided to buy or not.. From every review I found they were nice with nobody complaining about anything.. So I decided to buy them..
 well, you know, I dont like them, I`m not saying they`re bad, I`m saying they sound bad with my amp, cables, source, room, music, ears, otoacustic nerve Brain...
 So, after spending 900eur, and feeling to start over.. Please say " ..sounds awsome to me"_

 

Sorry, I missed that" from my tests"


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## TheManko

You can't really compare your experience from buying loudspeakers to a sound card. A better analogy would be buying headphones without listening to them first and then despite all the love on the internet not liking them. In terms of sound card quality it's more of a safe bet that it will be really good if peoples experiences on the internet say so. A better sound card isn't going to radically transform the character of the sound like speakers do, but instead make whatever is already there sound better.


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## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Xonar Essence STX sounds awesome from my tests. All of the Xonar cards have provided great sound quality and this card was built to sound good above all else. This is why it uses the high end DAC, high quality audio filtering caps, Power filters..etc..etc._

 

Is the sound quality is above the X-Meridian from your point of view?


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the sound quality is above the X-Meridian from your point of view?_

 

 Based on my personal listening test, yes.


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## TheManko

I have now pre-ordered my card here in Sweden and the stores that are listing it are saying that they're getting it December 30th. Can't wait!


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## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on my personal listening test, yes._

 

Now I'm salivating...


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## ROBSCIX

Yes and consider when you change out the opamps and do some other mods...


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## Average Joe

I'm so getting this card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's about time i upgraded from my audigy 2 zs.


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## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes and consider when you change out the opamps and do some other mods..._

 

And what opamps and mods have you in mind?


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## kuben

Hi what headphones do you recommend for this card? I want to buy HDJ-2000: New Flagship Professional DJ Headphones - Pioneer Europe They will us whole potential of xonar? Im newbie in this amp, adc, rca, What stuff i just want to my audio sounds awesome.


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## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes and consider when you change out the opamps and do some other mods..._

 

It should be LM4562 on default.. Is there anything better than them?


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be LM4562 on default.. Is there anything better than them?_

 

Yes, many would say there are other opamps that are better then the LM4562's. Some also have personal favorites such as OPA627,637, AD or LT brand opamps. Also consider the Discrete opamps like the Sun,moon,Earth or the Burson models are said to provide better quality then many chip opamps.
 Many use opamps to tailor the frequency response more to thier personal taste.


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## kuben

Hi what headphones do you recommend for this card? I want to buy HDJ-2000: New Flagship Professional DJ Headphones - Pioneer Europe They will us whole potential of xonar? Im newbie in this amp, adc, rca, What stuff i just want to my audio sounds awesome.


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## ROBSCIX

Any, being that this card has a built in headphone amplifer it is capable of driving all high impedance headphones without an external amplifier.

 I have never used those heapdhoens so I cannot comment on them. I have been testing the Essence with two sets of headphones and both sound very,very good when used with this card.


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## kuben

Ok and what about frequency response? hdjs have 5 Hz to 30kHz but stx have 10 Hz to 90 KHz so what does it mean?


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## Twitchy_one

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, many would say there are other opamps that are better then the LM4562's. Some also have personal favorites such as OPA627,637, AD or LT brand opamps. Also consider the Discrete opamps like the Sun,moon,Earth or the Burson models are said to provide better quality then many chip opamps.
 Many use opamps to tailor the frequency response more to thier personal taste._

 

If you use a Burson, how can you put it on this card without soldering? Is it possible? I don't have the skills but would like to snap a Burson into the card. Perhaps I'll email them & ask if they can provide an easier to install feature for their op amps.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Twitchy_one* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use a Burson, how can you put it on this card without soldering? Is it possible? I don't have the skills but would like to snap a Burson into the card. Perhaps I'll email them & ask if they can provide an easier to install feature for their op amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The card has opamp installed in DIY sockets so you can change the opamps if you like. You would have to remove the EMI sheilding or I am pretty sure the Burson and other units have extension wires for the units. This way you could conentc up the amp and put it next to the card and replace the EMI sheilding (if it is a big deal to you). They install just like any other opamps just they are larger. This is why they also come with the extension wires. I don't really think they can make it easier for other as they just plug into the socket, that is pretty easy.


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## Twitchy_one

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The card has opamp sockets. You would have to remove the EMI sheilding or I am pretty sure the Burson and other units have extension wires for the units. This way you could conentc up the amp and put it next to the card and replace the EMI sheilding (if it is a big deal to you). They install just like any other opamps just they are larger. This is why they also come with the extension wires._

 

Sweet! Thanks for the info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So use the extension wires on the Burson & find a place on the PC case to fasten it. I suppose a person could test the sound of the Xonar Essence STX with & without the EMI shield to see if it makes a difference in their environment. The EMI shield definitely looks nice.


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## karthur

See the attached photo, and I'd recommend ordering from audio-gd in China. This is a Moon attached to an Auzentech X-Meridian.

 edit: someone posted in another thread that the discrete opamps need to be supplied with 9v or above to function optimally. The Auzentech puts out 8v and it seems to work fine. I have no idea what The Asus supplies its opamps with but if it is less than 8v it might not be a good idea.


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## ROBSCIX

Prefect example of what I was refering to. Thx, Karthur.

 The Essence STX and other Xonars have have the EMI sheild so if you didn't want to remove the sheilding completely you could run these wires unders the sheild by leaving the screws on the one side a bit loose to produce a gap between the PCB and the sheilding.


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## TheManko

Oh no, my order was updated and apparently the card is coming out February 1st now (at least here in Sweden). Still looking forward to more impressions and reviews!


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## ROBSCIX

Just a note abou thte EMI sheilding. That pictures on the sheild is gold plated IIRC.


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## Twitchy_one

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See the attached photo, and I'd recommend ordering from audio-gd in China. This is a Moon attached to an Auzentech X-Meridian.

 edit: someone posted in another thread that the discrete opamps need to be supplied with 9v or above to function optimally. The Auzentech puts out 8v and it seems to work fine. I have no idea what The Asus supplies its opamps with but if it is less than 8v it might not be a good idea._

 

It's too bad the discrete opamp doesn't have a little molex connector to hook into the power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I guess I'll have to wait until someone else tries it or perhaps we can ask ASUS & they will let us know the details.


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## ROBSCIX

The card itself has a molex connector to hook into the power supply directly. All analog sections are powered from this direct power input and filtered by OS-CON capacitors. Quite a nice power filtering section based on my examinations.


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## stryfestryfe

Does anybody have any information on how this card stacks up against the HT Omega Claro Halo?


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## Alydon

Hey, Asus finally has the Essence listed on their products page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 The day of reckoning is slowly approaching......


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## slowfreight

$200 @ Newegg.com

Check it out.


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## ROBSCIX

Here I fixed your link:

Xonar Essence STX

 Great price for this amount of quality.


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## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stryfestryfe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anybody have any information on how this card stacks up against the HT Omega Claro Halo?_

 

I was looking to get the Halo, but after finding this thread i'm on hold.


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## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stryfestryfe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anybody have any information on how this card stacks up against the HT Omega Claro Halo?_

 

I doubt you'll find anyone here that has listened to both card... except maybe Rob. AFAIK, he is the only person that has heard/tested the Xonar Essence.


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## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slowfreight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$200 @ Newegg.com

Check it out._

 

Sah-weet! Ordered. Hopefully it'll be here by Xmas!


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## Auidodude34

cool can't wait to hear what think of it report back!


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## Brando

@Robscix
 Is this a worthwhile upgrade from a D2X? Have you compared the built in amp to any separate amps? If I buy this can I sell my Gilmore lite with confidence? Thanks!


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## ROBSCIX

If your worried, wait until some reviews come out.


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## moonboy403

It's hard to imagine that it'll be better than a $400 dedicated headphone amp, but hey, if it is, I'm all for it.


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## Brando

Oooooook.


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## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's hard to imagine that it'll be better than a $400 dedicated headphone amp, but hey, if it is, I'm all for it._

 

And why is it hard to imagine that it'll be better than a $400 dedicated headphone amp when you don't have to pay for a power supply and for a casing?


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## ROBSCIX

Better then this or better then that, will come when people compare it to other audio devices.


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And why is it hard to imagine that it'll be better than a $400 dedicated headphone amp when you don't have to pay for a power supply and for a casing?_

 

Is a power supply and case the reason for the $200 premium?


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## Brando

I'll probably get it anyway. If nothing else, it'll probably sound a little better and I can get a better connection through the dual rca's to my amp than I do with the 3.5mm mini to dual rca cable I use now. I think I also read somewhere that true line level is cleaner than the stereo out on most sound cards because they put out more power than necessary so they can power headphones or something?


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## skamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And why is it hard to imagine that it'll be better than a $400 dedicated headphone amp when you don't have to pay for a power supply and for a casing?_

 

And the fact that the soundcard is mass-produced by a big company, when your average headamp is manufactured by hand in small quantities.


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## SDDL-UP

I was going to get a Xonar D2, but this Essence card is in my price range so I think I'll get it unless the reviews fall well short of what it looks like it should provide.


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## hohum

I will comment on one thing I've just discovered about this card - no doubt it'll be pretty damn good, but the specification is misleading. According to the manual (which you can download from the ASUS website), the card does indeed have 124dB SNR... but only for the front output (I'm assuming this means the RCA jacks). The headphone output is 110dB SNR. Copy and pasted from the .pdf:

  Quote:


 Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted):
 124dB for Front-out
 110dB for Headphone-out 
 

Don't know what the rest of you think, but that's some pretty sneaky marketing in my opinion. Anyway, waiting to hear impressions...

 Edit: Further reading gets confusing - the manual is stating that for headphone use you connect the headphones to the included 3.5mm to RCA cable, and then connect that to the left and right front outputs. Doesn't mention connecting to the card's headphone jack at any point... bizarre.


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## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is a power supply and case the reason for the $200 premium? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why not? In case you haven't realized it those 2 make up the bulk of the amplifier's cost. Just ask anyone who had made a DIY amp before. The cost of the transistor/resistor/capacitor/diode/IC/PCB board is often negligible in comparison. At the end of the day everything done on a discrete amp can be done on a soundcard, unless of course tubes are invovled. So why can't the Xonar sound better than a $400 amp? Because OMG it's not made by RSA?


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## SDDL-UP

For what it's worth I'm going to use this card to replace my CD player, use those front RCA jacks to run right into my receiver. I probably won't ever use it for headphones. I don't have the specs on my Kenwood KR-V9010 receiver, but I'm sure, *very sure*, this sound card will outperform it. I just can't afford $2000 or more to upgrade that right now.


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## ROBSCIX

Here is more information on the card. The 2nd part of my Sneak Peak. Though y ou guys might be interested.
 Have a look: Here

 I have tested the card for quite awhile no so if you have any questions, feel free and I will answer them if I can.


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## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is more information on the card. The 2nd part of my Sneak Peak. Though y ou guys might be interested.
 Have a look: Here

 I have tested the card for quite awhile no so if you have any questions, feel free and I will answer them if I can._

 

Cool can't wait for the full review with better opamp's!


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## ROBSCIX

I have a very large collection also. I am trying to expand to some more units but I am usure if they will be in my audio lab prior to the review.


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## Alydon

Well the Essence arrived on my doorstep this afternoon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Unfortunately I'm stuck at work for another 6 hours so I can't listen to it yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll post some inital impressions after I get home tonight.


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## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the Essence arrived on my doorstep this afternoon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately I'm stuck at work for another 6 hours so I can't listen to it yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll post some inital impressions after I get home tonight._

 


 Can't wait after new years i'll be ordering it.


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## ROBSCIX

I think this will be a hot selling card in the new year.


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## jmpsmash

i have been eyeing it everyday on newegg. hoping that it will be sold out so it will make it easier for me, however, to my surprise, it is still available. ARGH!


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## Alydon

Okay, I've been playing with the Essence for a little over 2 hours now, and I must say I am impressed. It's definitely a step up from the HDAV I've been using, which is in turn a step up from the Xonar D2 and Prelude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 My current setup is as follows: 

 Hardware:
 Sound card -> Blue Jeans LC-1 RCA's -> Meier Corda "Blue" HA-1 MKI, crossfeed in the "off" position -> Beyer DT990 250ohm, plugged into the 0 ohm output. 

 To make things fair I pulled the LT1361 opamp out of the HDAV that I had installed and put the stock LM4562 back in that it came with. I also haven't played with the STX's built-in amp yet. Apples to apples. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OS: Winxp SP2
 Player: Media Monkey 3.0.4.1185, Standard Ed., Otachan ASIO plugin 0.67 SSE2



 Installation was a snap. Install card, turn on PC, cancel auto-detected device, insert CD, install software, reboot. The STX plays nicely with the Xonar HDAV that is already installed, but that's not surprising since earlier this Fall I had a Prelude, Xonar D2, and Xonar HDAV all running simultaneously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now for the good stuff. The sound. 

 The overall tonal sound signature is very similar to the HDAV (and thus it will be similar to the D2 & D2X as well) with one major difference. The Mids. Mids are significantly more present in the STX than the HDAV, leading to a slightly fuller/darker presentation. It's not a huge difference but it is immediately noticeable and is not overdone IMO. It's a welcome improvement. This is not to say that other parts of the spectrum are laid back/veiled, quite the opposite actually. Mids are also more controlled on the STX.

 Almost everything else is improved on the STX over the HDAV as well: The highs are clearer and have more detail and a more 3D feel to them, which in itself is impressive given the opamp used (LM4562), which I found to be somewhat flat and "digital" sounding when installed in the other cards I've heard it in (Xonar D2, HDAV, Prelude). 3D imaging on the STX is improved as well, background/accompanying intruments that might blend into a nondistinct backdrop of sound on the HDAV are pulled forward into the room on the STX. The soundstage is about the same size on both cards but instruments are more 3D and more focused on the STX, and sounds have a more natural/extended decay and allowed to breathe a little more than on the HDAV. There is also more air in the environment in general and more cohesiveness in the msucial presentation as a whole. 

 The bass is pretty even between the two cards, though. I don't think the STX goes any lower. It's also not much more prominent than the HDAV but there is slightly more detail and texture than the HDAV. Mid/uppser bass might be slightly more prominent too.

 What's also impressed me is that it is this good right out of the box. Both the Xonar D2 and HDAV I had needed about 30-40 hours burn-in time before they reached their sonic potential. And the Prelude took over week IIRC. The STX sounds better than them all from the start. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like after using it for a week. 

 Another big surprise was how good it sounds with the stock LM4562. Don't get me wrong, it's a good opamp. But like I said I found the highs it produced to be "digital" and somewhat flat image-wise in the other cards I've heard it in. In the 3 other cards the highs were also quite scratchy/fuzzy for the first several hours of use. Not so with the STX. In fact, for the first couple of minutes I had the STX installed, the HDAV still had the LT1361 in it (which fixes the LM4562's "problems" in the 3 above-mentioned cards), and a few quick a/b's showed the STX/LM4562 matched the HDAV/LT1361 in every respect.

 Okay, that's enough for now. I'm off to play some more.


----------



## Alydon

I just listened to the amp on this thing. It's good. 

 I mean, really good. 

 As in, "it's on the same level as my Corda Blue" good, which was $400 when I bought it. 

 It drives my DT990's with no problems on the medium gain setting. The sound is darker than the Corda Blue and has a little more weight. The Corda Blue has the edge on airiness and detail, tho. It sounds a lot like my Corda Opera, actually (tho I'm not saying it's as good as the Opera. Yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 Keep in mind this is my first impression after about 20 minutes listening to 1 CD. But so far the amp section is very promising.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Thnx, now I have another who can backup what I have been saying although I haven't said all that much about the overall signature of the card.
 Sounds good doesn't it?

 I have had the card for a bit longer and there is a burn-in. This card still amazes me when I listen to my music collection. Enjoy.


----------



## Bojamijams

Question for you Alydon.

 Are your DT990's recabled for an RCA connection, or are you using the 1/4" jack on the STX when you connect directly to it?

 Also, I'm curious to hear your thoughts with the LT1361 installed in the STX.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jmpsmash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have been eyeing it everyday on newegg. hoping that it will be sold out so it will make it easier for me, however, to my surprise, it is still available. ARGH!_

 

Looks like newegg is the only one selling this card right now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just listened to the amp on this thing. It's good. 

 I mean, really good. 

 As in, "it's on the same level as my Corda Blue" good, which was $400 when I bought it. 

 It drives my DT990's with no problems on the medium gain setting. The sound is darker than the Corda Blue and has a little more weight. The Corda Blue has the edge on airiness and detail, tho. It sounds a lot like my Corda Opera, actually (tho I'm not saying it's as good as the Opera. Yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 Keep in mind this is my first impression after about 20 minutes listening to 1 CD. But so far the amp section is very promising._

 

keep the updates coming!


----------



## zimmzio

Actually NCIX.com has them stock now... Just ordered one.

 *UPDATE* - I don't know for sure now, maybe its just on order with the supplier... Anyway says ships in 2-5 business day, we'll see.


----------



## viscosity

someone needs to try a discrete opamp in one of these. hopefully it has enough power for one, I know some who have used them in Auzentech cards and loved the sound. works wonders in the ZeroDAC aswell


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually NCIX.com has them stock now... Just ordered one.

 *UPDATE* - I don't know for sure now, maybe its just on order with the supplier... Anyway says ships in 2-5 business day, we'll see._

 

yeah showed up Canada site, not the US site


----------



## ROBSCIX

They are out, just a matter of time before they make it everywhere.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for you Alydon.

 Are your DT990's recabled for an RCA connection, or are you using the 1/4" jack on the STX when you connect directly to it?

 Also, I'm curious to hear your thoughts with the LT1361 installed in the STX._

 

My DT990's (2005 edition btw) have the stock cable. The RCA's on the card are line-out only, and the 1/4" is amped headphone out only, so I use the 1/4" out when the DT990's are plugged directly into the card and the RCA's when I want to use line-out to my Corda Blue. 

 I'm not going to try out the LT1361 yet until I give the card a little more time to burn-in so I can better judge its full potential with the LM4562. I'll probably give it a shot this weekend though. If it helps, the LT1361 gave the Prelude/D2/HDAV all slgihtly better bass texture and control and removed the flat and "digital" nature of the highs. It also made the soundstage a little more open and increased its depth.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_someone needs to try a discrete opamp in one of these. hopefully it has enough power for one, I know some who have used them in Auzentech cards and loved the sound. works wonders in the ZeroDAC aswell_

 

I'm gonna wait until I give the card a week or so to fully burn in and then I'll probably order the Sun from the link you provided. I've never tried a discrete opamp before so now I'm curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And $30 seems like a decent price. 

 Incidentally, if I got one where would I attach the grounding wire? Somewhere on my PC case, or on the card's EMI shield maybe? Or would I not use the grounding wire at all? The site you linked says, "User can choose to decide his own, but we recommend to connect the earth wire to ground. Do not connect OPAs earth wire to AC power socket ground."


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thnx, now I have another who can backup what I have been saying although I haven't said all that much about the overall signature of the card.
 Sounds good doesn't it?

 I have had the card for a bit longer and there is a burn-in. This card still amazes me when I listen to my music collection. Enjoy._

 

I too am quite surprised at what this thing can do given that it hasn't burned in yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I was expecting there to be a period of adjustment like there was for the D2/HDAV/Prelude, but the STX is shining right out of the box.

 What impresses me the most is how well-textured and "full" the sound is. My setup has always sounded a little thinner than I'd liked, and I attributed it to the fact that I've always used solid state instead of tubes. But with the STX I no longer notice any thinness or lack of body to the music. Perhaps a better way to put it is I don't find myself longing for more fullness in the music like I used to.

 -----

 I let the STX burnin overnight so now it's got about 12 hrs on it. From the RCA out's the sound seems to have opened up just a hair from last night. The soundstage feels about the same size, but there's a little more air present. Instruments are breathing just a little better than they were last night. 

 The bass has significantly improved, though. There is definitely more bass presence, texture, resolution and a little more extension from last night. It's now noticeably better than the HDAV, whereas last night the two cards were pretty even in the bass department.

 As for the card itself, it is almost identical to the Engineering sample Hardware Canucks received (see link in the OP of this thread). The only two changes are the bright blue cap in the center-right side of the card above the AV100 DSP was replaced with a gold cap, and the microchip directly above that cap is missing (there are 2 chips on the engineering sample, but I only have the top one). 

 I'll post pics of my card tonight.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Alydon, I found the STX to have a "tube" type sonic signature, or less digital sounding then some cards as you said, very full presence.


----------



## ooeric

newegg has them. but they are 199$ ouch.


----------



## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually NCIX.com has them stock now... Just ordered one.

 *UPDATE* - I don't know for sure now, maybe its just on order with the supplier... Anyway says ships in 2-5 business day, we'll see._

 

Thanks for the info... Finally, I was able to ordered one...


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info... Finally, I was able to ordered one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lucky you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still waiting for them to hit the US site I know it will be cheaper than newegg and best of all no TAX


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ooeric* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_newegg has them. but they are 199$ ouch._

 

That is reasonable and on par with any other "premium" soundcard that has been released in the last few years. $200 is alot lower then many of us thought it would be, especially when considering the sound quality and feature set avialable from this card.


----------



## hohum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* 
_My DT990's (2005 edition btw) have the stock cable. The RCA's on the card are line-out only, and the 1/4" is amped headphone out only, so I use the 1/4" out when the DT990's are plugged directly into the card and the RCA's when I want to use line-out to my Corda Blue._

 

According to the manual you're supposed to connect your headphones using the included RCA splitter - so I guess the RCA outputs are amped aswell, which is an odd design decision. Also, the 1/4 jack for headphone out on the card only gives 110dB SNR, compared to the RCA outputs which are (supposedly) 124dB. I did bring this up a couple of pages back in this thread, but nobody commented on it.

 Overall I think it's a little odd that they release a card suited for headphone use... which has reduced sound quality when using the actual headphone jack on the card.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hohum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to the manual you're supposed to connect your headphones using the included RCA splitter - so I guess the RCA outputs are amped aswell, which is an odd design decision. Also, the 1/4 jack for headphone out on the card only gives 110dB SNR, compared to the RCA outputs which are (supposedly) 124dB. I did bring this up a couple of pages back in this thread, but nobody commented on it.

 Overall I think it's a little odd that they release a card suited for headphone use... which has reduced sound quality when using the actual headphone jack on the card._

 


 Yes that's very odd, actually. I suspect their headphone connect diagram is a typo since none of their diagrams show using the 1/4” output jack at all. And they show 2/2.1 speakers using the RCA out’s via the 3.5mm-to-RCA adapter as well. I’m guessing the people who wrote the manual just made a mistake.

 I’m at work atm so I can’t verify this, but IIRC the RCA jacks have no output signal at all if you select "headphones" from the output selection dropdown box in the STX control panel. If you select "2 speakers" then the RCA's get a signal and the 1/4" output gets no signal. I don't know if the RCA output is amped or not though. 

 I guess I just assumed that the RCA's would be line-out, since I figured they would know that people would want to use the RCA out to plug into an external amp/preamp or use the RCA-to-mini adapter and plug powered speakers into that, all of which would want a line-out signal. I'll verify all of this when I get home from work tonight.

 I also wouldn’t worry about the SNR of the 1/4" jack (which is listed as 117dB at maximum gain on their website and 110dB in the manual) as compared to the Front out. I’m no audio engineer, but my understanding is the SNR is lower because when you amplify a signal, you also amplify the noise floor by a similar amount. And since SNR is not an absolute measured value, but rather a ratio of the noise floor to a static (non-changing) industry-standard reference signal level, the SNR will naturally and inevitably get smaller as the total signal gets stronger and the noise floor starts to approach the static reference signal level. 

 But that doesn’t mean that the sound quality is at all diminished since SNR doesn’t take into account the maximum signal strength, which in the case of an amplified signal is also increased. So having a lower SNR on the amped 1/4" jack than the (presumably unamped) front-out is mathematically unavoidable but not at all indicative of a reduction in sound quality. A better measurement would be Dynamic Range, which is a ratio of the maximum signal strength to the noise floor. Unfortunately they haven’t provided that to us.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is reasonable and on par with any other "premium" soundcard that has been released in the last few years. $200 is alot lower then many of us thought it would be, especially when considering the sound quality and feature set avialable from this card._

 

Yes, $200 is quite reasonable considering the Xonar D2, D2x, and Auzentech Prelude were all $200+ when released. The STX sounds better than all three of them, and you get a built-in high-quality headphone amp on top of it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@hohum, the 1/4" RCA outputs are normal Line-level outputs and cannot drive high impedance headphones. If you have Headphones which require a amplifier then use the headphone output on the rear of the card.
 The headphone amp is measured for 117db SNR. which can easily surpass many soundcards for SNR. The actual TI chip is a 120dB amplifier chip but that is max ratings.
 The line Level outputs are 124db, according to the AP test found on the net. The actual DAC spec for the card is 127dB but that is maximum ratings and normal measured rating using a high quality analyzer would yield 124db as released in the AP report.
 To note, ASUS uses measured values in their specs as opposed to other soundcard companies which use maximum Spec values which the card will never hit when measured.


----------



## Auidodude34

@Alydon does it have a MIC in?

 looks like it sold out already at newegg.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the card has line-in and mic in. Both share the same jack.

 I figured they would sell out rather quick.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the card has line-in and mic in. Both share the same jack.

 I figured they would sell out rather quick._

 


 ^^^ This. ^^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 In any case, more updates.... I played around more with the STX’s amped 1/4" output last night and did some comparisons to both my Corda Blue and Corda Opera plugged into the STX's RCA output. After about 15hrs of burning the amp section in, so far I'd say it falls somewhere in between the two Corda’s, both in terms of sound quality and overall sonic signature.

 The STX’s amp drives my DT990’s quite well. It produces a very clear and open sound that has a lot of fullness/body to it, and overall sounds quite similar to the Opera. The sound is somewhat darker/fuller than the Blue, but then the Blue is known for it’s beautifully airy if-slightly-bright presentation. 

 The bass produced by the STX’s amp is fuller and has better resolution and texture/3-Dimensionality than the Blue (which can become somewhat indistinct at times in the bass region), but slightly less than the Opera in all 3 respects (though not by much). Bass extension seems pretty similar on all three.

 Mids on both the Opera and STX feel about the same and are a slightly forward of neutral, which contributes to the fullness. On the Blue they are slightly “less forward” (I hesitate to say recessed cuz they’re not). Mids texture and detail are about the same on all three amps, with the Opera again in the lead by a small amount.

 Highs are beautiful on all three amps, but the Blue outshines the other two here by a little bit. There is more air and ambience on the Blue then the other two. Upper/mid Treble is also more forward on the Blue, though it’s hard to say if it’s any more detailed than either the Opera or STX. None of these amps sound piercing or sibilant in any respect, however.

 Instrument decay is also more natural/extended on the Blue, although neither the Opera nor the STX amp sound truncated here – which shows how good of a match the STX is for the Opera, since the decay on the Opera has sounded slightly congested, rounded-off, and truncated when I’ve used it with other soundcards. 

 The STX’s amp also has a large 3D soundstage that is somewhat smaller than the Blue (which has a quite large and open soundstage – one of its strengths) but about the same size (WxDxH) as the Opera. On both the Opera and the STX you’re sitting up with the band with instruments playing around you at different distances in a well-defined 3D space, both in front of you and on either side. With the Blue you are in a larger room, and 1 or 2 rows back from the music. 

 One thing that struck me about all three amps/amp sections is the additional sense of depth the STX provides. With the other sound cards I’ve used, the soundstage on both the Opera and the Blue have been fairly wide and tall, but not as deep, leading to a “flattened sphere-shaped” room, like an M&M balancing on its edge. When using the STX RCA’s, both Corda’s get a deeper soundstage than I’ve heard with other cards, so the WxDxH dimensions are more proportional to each other, giving you a nice sphere of sound around you. You get the same effect when plugging your headphones directly into the STX's amp as well. Depth perception isn’t as well defined on the Blue is it is with the Opera or STX amps though. 

 All-in-all, I’m still quite impressed by the STX’s amp. It's not as good as the Opera, but it comes surprisingly close, especially given that it's included on the card and the Opera (analog) sold for $700-$750 new about 4 months ago. 

 One thing to keep in mind though, I have a very clean and powerful power supply in my PC (Silverstone Zeus ST85ZF 850W). I can't say how well this card's amp will perform in the PC w/ a mediocre power supply like what you might find in your average Dell, for example. A usual YMMV.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thank you for that Alydon. Its all I needed to get rid of my prelude and get the stx instead.


----------



## Ziek

Sigh, wish I had pulled the trigger on this.


----------



## davidw89

THat does synerise with DAC (such as the iBasso D3/Pico) through ASIO?


----------



## audionewbieyao

I can't find the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 button in Xonar Essence' page on NewEgg.

 Does that mean sold out?!!! that's really fast....


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 button in Xonar Essence' page on NewEgg.

 Does that mean sold out?!!! that's really fast.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 If you look at the ETA should been next Friday 1-2-09 when back in stock. Better be fast I have my money ready


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many people have been following that senak peak and threads such as this regarding the card. I figured it would sell out very fast.

 @Alydon, Considering any opamp rolling?


----------



## twhtpclover

hi, I'm a new guy here and this is my first post here, so cheers...

 well.. what I want to say is, I am a Taiwaness, and I am really surprised to find Asus is also making seems pretty good sound cards now. I mean, these cards are not sold or discussed in Taiwan but is highly praised here.

 Guess I'll have to make some phone calls to their HQ and tell them "I want it in my and also your own country, and I want it now...."

 Can't wait to get this card, I've got 1TB of music files waiting for it....


----------



## twhtpclover

ok, just learned that there is a Part II of the sneak preview... nice preview, looking forlward for the full review...

ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sneak Peak Part II - Hardware Canucks


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm gonna wait until I give the card a week or so to fully burn in and then I'll probably order the Sun from the link you provided. I've never tried a discrete opamp before so now I'm curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And $30 seems like a decent price. 

 Incidentally, if I got one where would I attach the grounding wire? Somewhere on my PC case, or on the card's EMI shield maybe? Or would I not use the grounding wire at all? The site you linked says, "User can choose to decide his own, but we recommend to connect the earth wire to ground. Do not connect OPAs earth wire to AC power socket ground."_

 

I think what was suggested was to connect the grounding wire to the analog ground. Although im sure any ground would work, or no ground at all. I remember there was discussion over this and most people either didn't bother with it or just attached it to analog ground because it was recommended by Kingwa, the designer

 Either way, the general concensus is that OPA-Earth provided better SQ then the OPA-Sun on the basis that OPA-Sun tended to be overly bright and unatural. I have only tested OPA-Sun Version 1 for this.. so maybe they fixed it a bit with Ver. 2. OPA-Moon is said to produce a more "tubey" sound. I have yet to try this one but I know a few people that enjoy the sound.

 OPA-Earth sits in my Zero atm, probably the most neutral of the three, which is fine for me as I have a Darkvoice Tube amp feeding AKG K701s


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think what was suggested was to connect the grounding wire to the analog ground. Although im sure any ground would work, or no ground at all. I remember there was discussion over this and most people either didn't bother with it or just attached it to analog ground because it was recommended by Kingwa, the designer

 Either way, the general concensus is that OPA-Earth provided better SQ then the OPA-Sun on the basis that OPA-Sun tended to be overly bright and unatural. I have only tested OPA-Sun Version 1 for this.. so maybe they fixed it a bit with Ver. 2. OPA-Moon is said to produce a more "tubey" sound. I have yet to try this one but I know a few people that enjoy the sound.

 OPA-Earth sits in my Zero atm, probably the most neutral of the three, which is fine for me as I have a Darkvoice Tube amp feeding AKG K701s_

 

Ahh, thanks, good info to know. I might try connecting the wire to one of the hypergrounding screws on the card. I'll have to do a little more research, but if the Earth is the most neutral as you say that'll probably be the one I go for since right now I really like the overall sonic signature of the STX.

 @ROBSCIX, yes, I've replaced the LM4562 opamp w/ my LT1361, and I plan on trying the LT1364 and LME9860 later on as well since I have them on hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might also try the LM6171 since Jan Meier has had such good luck w/ it in his Corda amps, and am considering dual OPA637's as well, though that route is a little bit spendier than the others so maybe I'll just wait until you guys over at HWC to test that one first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The LT1361 in the STX is an improvement over the LM4562 BTW, although the differences are minor. It provides very similar benefits to the other cards I've tried it in. Lower/mid Bass becomes stronger and more visceral. 3D imaging and soundstage depth are also improved especially in the treble region. Instruments sound a little more focused as well.

 OTOH, the LM4562 does have a little more treble energy, and the overall volume seems a touch higher than the LT1361. There also seems to be a slight boost in the upper mids/lower treble region which makes the STX sound ever-so-slightly too bright in some recordings for my taste. The boost isn't uncomfortable or distracting at all though, and I could see where someone could prefer the slight boost. 

 Overall I prefer the 1361, though. I only paid $6.38 for it at Digikey, so I suggest that anyone who buys an STX at least try it out since it's so cheap.

 Oh, I also said I'd post some pics, so here they are. 

 Here is the card and all of the box's contents. We have 2 marketing brochures, user guide, driver cd, booklet of Audio Precision test results, RCA-to-mini adapter, 1/8"-to-1/4" adapter, and spdif adapter.






 Closer shot of the goods.






 This one is of the STX w/ the shield off (held on by 4 screws from the back) and the LT1361 installed to the right of the red RCA connector. 






 Here it is next to the Xonar HDAV 1.3. The STX is about 1/4" shorter in length.


----------



## Bojamijams

I wonder, is there maybe like an 'ultimate' OPAMP upgrade for this.. maybe even upwards of $50? the 1361 offers a 'minor' upgrade as you say.. so is there like a $50 OPAMP that might give a major upgrade? 

 Btw, thank you for pics


----------



## Auidodude34

Alydon you read my mind I wanted to know what accessories came with the card
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And how was it switching out the OPAMP any problems?


----------



## hdampf

hi,

 does anyone know when this card will be available in germany or somewhere else in europe?

 seems to be interesting.

 anyone testet this card directly with hd650 without anything else like extern dac or amp? how are the results?

 how good is the dac on this card compared to the esi juli@?

 how good is the amp compared to a beginner tube amp like the darkvoice 336se?

 thx

 maybe i cosider to get this card instead of the juli@+darcvoice amp if the result is not much different.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alydon you read my mind I wanted to know what accessories came with the card
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And how was it switching out the OPAMP any problems?_

 

Opamps on this card are easy to change. Remove the EMI/RFI sheild and remove the stock opamp and install the new one. However, if your not the "hands on" type you may want another to try.


----------



## TheManko

Swedish stores will be getting it February 1st and since it's really easy to import headphones and stuff from Germany here I don't see any reason why Germany wouldn't get it before or at the same time.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdampf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi,

 does anyone know when this card will be available in germany or somewhere else in europe?

 seems to be interesting.

 anyone testet this card directly with hd650 without anything else like extern dac or amp? how are the results?

 how good is the dac on this card compared to the esi juli@?

 how good is the amp compared to a beginner tube amp like the darkvoice 336se?

 thx

 maybe i cosider to get this card instead of the juli@+darcvoice amp if the result is not much different._

 

If you want to compare DAC chips specifications, the Essence STX can surpass the Juli@ for DAC measurments. You have to consider though, this card is the new flagship for the Xonar Line-up and the Juli@ is a bit dated now. You may prefer the sonic siganture of one over the other but the numbers show the Essence surpasses the Juli@ alteast as far as imperical measurments of the DAC chip are concerned, that is if my memory serves me.
 Keep in mind though both cards are from different generations and really meant for different audio tasks. It is like comparing a apple to a orange.


----------



## pompon

FineAxe have one in order ... the good news .. I live very close to him and we will be able to test that sound card against : X-Meridian stock + lm4562, X-Meridian + LM4562 + caps + dc decoupling mod, Xonar D2X

 I never heard one soundcard as good as the X-Meridian 7.1 ... the best DAC I heard (without paying 14 000$) was tie with my x-meridian and my cd-player (high end unit) is slighty better ... difficult for me to know wich one is playing.

 If the XTS is better than that, I will buy one!


----------



## audionewbieyao

Hi, i checked Asus site again today, they've corrected the spec to 117..
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

 Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted):
 124dB for Front-out,117dB for Headphone-out (600ohms) dB


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alydon you read my mind I wanted to know what accessories came with the card
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 And how was it switching out the OPAMP any problems?_

 

Like ROBSCIX said it's a piece o' cake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just remove the 4 little screws from the back of the card and the shield practically falls off. The opamp itself is held in place by tension alone. You probably can't unplug it from its socket with your fingers, but a $3 chip extractor or a pair of needlenose pliers with a light to medium grip will pull one out no problem if you gently rock the chip back and forth a few times. Then you just plug the new one in, with pin 1 (specified by a dot or divot on the chip) point to the left towards the RCA ports and screw the shield back on and boom, you're done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, i checked Asus site again today, they've corrected the spec to 117..
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

 Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted):
 124dB for Front-out,117dB for Headphone-out (600ohms) dB_

 

Ya, I saw that too. Pretty impressive considering the opamp they use has a spec'd theoretical rating of 120dB.

 Oh, a word of note about the amp section's gain selector. It can be dynamically changed in real-time even while music is playing via a dropdown menu in the STX control panel. Quite impressive, considering the Claro Halo forces you to actually pull the sound card out to change the gain level. Something to keep in mind if you're thinking about getting one of these two cards....


----------



## audionewbieyao

hum.. that's really a plus.
 I didn't know Claro Halo requires pulling out the card to change the gain...

 What if I got a new headphone then?Leaving the cover open all the time?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I forgot to mention that part. The Claro Halo uses pins and a jumper to selece the Gain range and the Essence has a software selectable switch. I showed the panel for those interested in the Sneak Peak.


----------



## zimmzio

Who here ordered an Essence STX from NCIX.com and received a shipping confirmation w/ tracker# today? ...Let me know please. Thanks


----------



## Auidodude34

I would buy it from NCIX than newegg "taxes", but still hasn't hit the US site yet.


----------



## Bojamijams

I ordered but I didn't get a tracking number. It was listed as 2-5 days so I'll be lucky if it ships tomorrow


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered but I didn't get a tracking number. It was listed as 2-5 days so I'll be lucky if it ships tomorrow_

 

They supposedly shipped ~3 units today and i was to be one of them "supposedly"... i won't go into details but I have a terrible feeling that they're playing favorites with these, maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway i don't think they're being totally honest with me and others for that matter and I'm not very happy about it.


----------



## Bojamijams

Well it could just be first come first serve.. though why they only shipped 3 units is beyond me. 

 How did you find that out btw?


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it could just be first come first serve.. though why they only shipped 3 units is beyond me. 

 How did you find that out btw?_

 


 Well i talked to a rep this afternoon and she said they had 4 in stock, but after finding out they only have one shipping facility located in Vancouver i had no choice in asking her to upgrade the shipping service from ground to Air(I'm in Quebec btw, would of took over a week transit), she then told me that in order to make the necessary changes they will have to put my order on hold for a few hours... See i was initially mislead by their stock counter in thinking they had 2 warehouses so i assumed my order would be filled and shipped from the warehouse in Toronto, but obviously that isn't the case. Anyway later today i received an email stating that they had made the necessary changes to my order but unfortunately by the time this was done they had already depleted the stocks and the order is now currently pending and in backorder and with no eta. 

 I'm obviously very disappointed by them and i now regret ever mentioning them as possible source for Xonar Essence STX's.

 *UPDATE*

 On a more positive note... I found a place in my city that has them, i'll know tomorrow for sure... But it looks good and what makes it even sweeter is that they're selling them for less then NCIX. Brick and Mortar Baby! Woohooo!!!


----------



## Bojamijams

Well unfortunatelly they're the first ones that are going to have it in Canada.

 And yeah a Warehouse stock number is their distributor, not themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quite misleading I know, especially since I got an email from them thats supposed to notify me when its IN STOCK. Which it clearly isn't 

 You and I just gotta wait man. I too payed for Air shipping and am hoping they ship it out Thursday latest so I can have it friday.


----------



## zimmzio

check my previous post bud... it has an update.


----------



## Auidodude34

Well I guess i'm not going to order from NCIX then. My state needs the Tax money anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well unfortunatelly they're the first ones that are going to have it in Canada.

 And yeah a Warehouse stock number is their distributor, not themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quite misleading I know, especially since I got an email from them thats supposed to notify me when its IN STOCK. Which it clearly isn't 

 You and I just gotta wait man. I too payed for Air shipping and am hoping they ship it out Thursday latest so I can have it friday._

 

Yeah i hope you can get it for Friday but don't forget that new years is Thursday and that they wont be shipping anything that day so your only chance in getting it by Friday is if they receive and ship on Wednesday... Please don't hate me... Just saying!


----------



## Bojamijams

Update! I just got an email from NCIX (who sends shipping emails at 11:30pm EST?) saying that it's shipped!! should have it here tomorrow!!!


----------



## finaxe

Now confirmed! It's on its way home... 

 @Zimmzio, where did you find it in Quebec?


----------



## zimmzio

damn! one of you got mine then... but I'm happy for you guys. 

 As of me, I'll know today if i can get one over here...

 @finaxe: I'll let you know about the place after Ive secured one for myself, I'm not taking anymore chances! lol


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_damn! one of you got mine then... but I'm happy for you guys. 

 As of me, I'll know today if i can get one over here...

 @finaxe: I'll let you know about the place after Ive secured one for myself, I'm not taking anymore chances! lol_

 

hahaha


----------



## zimmzio

Well i decided to wait it out and stick with NCIX. *crossing fingers for Friday*

 @finaxe: The place that has them(i should say can get them, not before Monday anyway) in Montreal is sohodiffusion.com check them out, they ship to Canada, United States and France and offer 24/7 delivery in the Montreal area and they also have a checkout counter.


----------



## Bojamijams

Just got the card and about to install but first decided to read the manual.

 The weird thing is, that the manual (off the website, updated 12/18) states that the Front Outs are amplified.

 But on the box it states that they are meant to be connected to an AVR or Speakers meaning.. its line out.

 Wish Asus would get their act together and have some correct info written. First the Headphone out had a 110db SnR now they updated to 117.


----------



## ROBSCIX

110 wouldn't be correct. The TI headphone amp is spec'd for 120 MAX...meaning normal values for this amp would be about 117db.


----------



## Bojamijams

I know that, I'm just saying, there's a lot of conflicting information from ASUS themselves about the spec and capabilities of this card. The 110 -> 117 was just an example (and a happy change at that)


----------



## Auidodude34

Well looks like NCIX has it on it's US site for $185,but Special Order, Usually 1-2 weeks.


----------



## Bojamijams

Well this figures.. I installed the card but it wont' work.. my system is saying one of the PCI-to-PCI bridges doesn't have enough resources for it to run (code 12)

 So I can't actually install any drivers as it has not detected it yet. Here's a tip: never buy an nvidia motherboard!

 Also a warning.. the shield on the card is very thick. If you use a back plate for your video card (Mine is watercooled with the D-Tek GFX 2 hence the backplate) then there will be some clearance issues if you install this sound card right above a video card.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this figures.. I installed the card but it wont' work.. my system is saying one of the PCI-to-PCI bridges doesn't have enough resources for it to run (code 12)_

 

And is that with the molex connected? Also do you have onboard sound?


----------



## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_110 wouldn't be correct. The TI headphone amp is spec'd for 120 MAX...meaning normal values for this amp would be about 117db._

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!


----------



## zimmzio

I don't get the quotation but .... Happy New Year to you!


----------



## Bojamijams

Yeah the molex is connected. And I tested to make sure it wasn't a bum connector. 

 I tried booting with onboard sound enabled and disabled, still apparently not having enough resources :s

 for the record, I have the evga 750i ftw mobo. Something tells me people with intel chipsets are not going to have this issue.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah the molex is connected. And I tested to make sure it wasn't a bum connector. 

 I tried booting with onboard sound enabled and disabled, still apparently not having enough resources :s

 for the record, I have the evga 750i ftw mobo. Something tells me people with intel chipsets are not going to have this issue._

 


 hmm I wonder what mobo's Alydon and ROBSCIX are using. I have a ASUS p5q pro intel chipset.


----------



## zimmzio

Is your MB running its latest BIOS?

 Disable your onboard sound card, Also disable its gameport if it has one... your having a DMA conflict. XP right?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah the molex is connected. And I tested to make sure it wasn't a bum connector. 

 I tried booting with onboard sound enabled and disabled, still apparently not having enough resources :s

 for the record, I have the evga 750i ftw mobo. Something tells me people with intel chipsets are not going to have this issue._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm I wonder what mobo's Alydon and ROBSCIX are using. I have a ASUS p5q pro intel chipset._

 

My Specs:

 Intel core2 Duo E6600
 EVGA 680i SLI mbd (P28 BIOS)
 EVGA 8800GTX vid card in the top full-length PCI-E slot
 Abit wireless Nic in the x1 PCI-E slot right above the vid card
 WinXP SP2

 The Xonar Essence STX is in bottom PCI-E slot, though I've tried it in the middle slot to and it works fine there as well. I also at one point had a card in all 4 PCI-E slots (Abit Nic, 8800GTX, Xonar HDAV, Xonar Essence) and had no problem with that either. All 4 cards worked fine. So the nVidia 600 series seems to have no resource issues anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you're not using SLI I'd try it in your other full-length PCI-E slot and see if it works there.

 And like Zimm said make sure you have the latest mbd BIOS and nforce drivers installed.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am using a Gigabyte Motherboard. I have ran many of the new cards through this system and never had issues with any of them.


----------



## Scary

My next computer will have this card in it, it's about as perfect as one would ask for. Digital out for receiver, RCA outs for external amp, and headphone amp, my god, someone actually read these forums and put it into an enthusiast card.


----------



## MustRotate

Is this available in stores everywhere or for the time just a couple of distributors?
 Happy New Year!


----------



## HeadLover

So, can any one review it ???


----------



## audionewbieyao

well.. i think world's first 2 reviews are from Robscix and Alydon...


----------



## HeadLover

I don't see it, where is it?
 Also how is it as a speaker DAC and as a headphones amp ?


----------



## Vandal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know the Essence hasn't been released ANYWHERE yet and if you find it, you are looking at a Pre-order.

 If you are interested in stereo audio/Headphone audio which most are on this site then the Xonar Essence stx is a great sound card.
 The sound quality is very good. Very dynamic, nice tight bass, good midrange without any harshness and there is very good high end extension without any scratchiness.
 I find it has a very warm sound that many soundcards do not have. I enjoy the sound quality of the Essence soundcard very much.

 To note, currently the HDAV 1.3 is the champ of the Xonar line up surpassing all other models. The Xonar Essence will surpass the HDAV 1.3 when released._

 

You say its warm; that's already something I don't like. When you say very warm you scare me...I wonder what an HD 650 coupled to a very warm source would sound like. If your viewpoint is accurate why do I get the sinking feeling that this card won't be good for those looking at a revealing top-end?


----------



## Nebby

I'm guessing nobody is getting a STX that currently has an Onkyo SE200? I'm curious how they compare, even though it's an apples to oranges comparison, I'm looking at them as pure source output cars, nothing else.

 SE200:


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You say its warm; that's already something I don't like. When you say very warm you scare me...I wonder what an HD 650 coupled to a very warm source would sound like. If your viewpoint is accurate why do I get the sinking feeling that this card won't be good for those looking at a revealing top-end?_

 

Maybe your just over emphasizing his words a little, in contrast he did use other descriptives like "bright and sparkly" that could be interpreted as being revealing at the top end also no? Just an exemple...I'm not writing a thesis on his previews.


----------



## Bojamijams

I figured out the issue. The system was still assigning an IRQ to my old PRelude which was in the legacy PCI slot. When I took it out and put in the STX in the PCI-E x1 slot, it didn't release the other IRQ (or maybe DMA) address to assign to this one, thus, ran out of resources. 

 Even a CMOS reset on the mobo didn't clear it up.

 I ended up flashing to an older bios (a newer one may have worked too) and that freed it up and now works fine. I'm having some issues making DDL work in Winamp but other then that.. 

 three letters for you

 WOW!

 I just listened to Machine Head's cover of Iron Maiden's Hallow Be Thy Name. Ripped in flac from the CD, through the headphone out directly into the SR225's. 

 I almost cried. So beautiful.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I figured out the issue. The system was still assigning an IRQ to my old PRelude which was in the legacy PCI slot. When I took it out and put in the STX in the PCI-E x1 slot, it didn't release the other IRQ (or maybe DMA) address to assign to this one, thus, ran out of resources. 

 Even a CMOS reset on the mobo didn't clear it up.

 I ended up flashing to an older bios (a newer one may have worked too) and that freed it up and now works fine. I'm having some issues making DDL work in Winamp but other then that.. 

 three letters for you

 WOW!

 I just listened to Machine Head's cover of Iron Maiden's Hallow Be Thy Name. Ripped in flac from the CD, through the headphone out directly into the SR225's. 

 I almost cried. So beautiful._

 

Ah nice to hear that ... you have me all excited now! hehe


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I almost cried. So beautiful._

 

WoW I'm think I'm sold if newegg gets them in stock tomorrow I'll be the first to order!

 Oh yeah Happy New Year all!


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I almost cried. So beautiful._

 

Geez.... that's really some compliment to a sound card...
 You've got me sold out too...
 NewEgg... answer me now...


----------



## zimmzio

Happy New Year!


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see it, where is it?
 Also how is it as a speaker DAC and as a headphones amp ?_

 

All of my comments on the STX are interspersed in this thread starting at around page 9. I will be pulling my comments out into a more coherent review in a new thread in the next couple of days.

 I''ve not tried using the card to run speakers, but as a headphone amp it is quite impressive. It's full, dynamic, sparkly, airy, with deep and full bass and a beautifully intimate, 3D soundstage and clear imaging. Now that the amp has burned in for about 50 hours I'd put it on par with my Corda Opera (_EDIT: to clarify I mean it's on par with the sound I get from the Corda Opera being fed from the STX's RCA outs. I don't know how the STX's amp section would compare if it was a separate device fed by a different source.)_ and noticeably better than my Corda Blue.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You say its warm; that's already something I don't like. When you say very warm you scare me...I wonder what an HD 650 coupled to a very warm source would sound like. If your viewpoint is accurate why do I get the sinking feeling that this card won't be good for those looking at a revealing top-end?_

 


 At the risk of speaking for ROBSCIX, I'm sure he means warm in only the best possible sense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oftentimes "Warm" is associated with gear that is strong in the mids at the expense of a boomy or bloated bass and/or rolled-off/veiled highs. *This is not the case with the STX!!!*





 What he and I talk about when we say the STX is "warm" is that the sound has a fullness to it that brings the mids a little more forward than many other sound cards, which can sound a little thin/cold/scooped out in the mids by comparison. the STX's mids are strong so that they "fill out" sound sources. Instruments and voices have texture, body, and fullness to them that is stronger and more realistic to my ears than other cards I've heard in this category (Prelude, Xonar D2, Xonar HDAV), but it's not so much that sounds have that "too close to the mic" slurred mushiness to them that you get when the sound is too warm and the mids are too strong.

 But the bass runs as deep as those other cards and is fuller and more detailed without feeling bloated, boomy, or out of control. And the Highs are quite clear, airy, extended, sparkly, pure, detailed, and holographic without being veiled, rolled off, truncated, or muffled in any sense. I believe that the STX is simply a better card for listening to music than the Prelude, D2, or HDAV. And not better as in "more to my tastes." It's just superior, much like those cards are superior to the X-Fi Xtrememusic that I have (though the difference isn't as big).

 I've not heard the STX w/ a pair of HD650's but I'm confident that they will sound fine together.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You say its warm; that's already something I don't like. When you say very warm you scare me...I wonder what an HD 650 coupled to a very warm source would sound like. If your viewpoint is accurate why do I get the sinking feeling that this card won't be good for those looking at a revealing top-end?_

 






, When I use the word "Warm" I refer to a sound that is opposite from the scooped out digital type sound some devices have.
 Clarity and detail are on the top of my list for aspects I look for in a soundcard. I wouldn't use the term "warm" to mean the card is veiled or has no top end or clarity. If the card has a veiled top end or no clarity, I would say so. 
 This is a prime examples of why I hate to use words to describe sound quality as somebody will always misinterpret them.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 three letters for you

 WOW!

 I just listened to Machine Head's cover of Iron Maiden's Hallow Be Thy Name. Ripped in flac from the CD, through the headphone out directly into the SR225's. 

 I almost cried. So beautiful._

 

Glad you got it figured out. The card sound quite good doesn't it?
 Atleast I have some others backing me up now instead of just me telling the PC audio world how good this card sounds.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 --now, where are my opamps...off to experiement with opamps and the STX.


----------



## Bojamijams

Yes please do! Experiement your heard out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm loving this but I know it can get even better.


----------



## Brando

Anyone tried to do any gaming so far with it? I was playing Fallout 3 last night and I noticed that when a certain weapon fire sound effect happens, the D2X skips\repeats\glitches a bit and even crashed the game once. Just wondering if the STX's drivers are any better. Or maybe it's the games fault I don't know.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried to do any gaming so far with it? I was playing Fallout 3 last night and I noticed that when a certain weapon fire sound effect happens, the D2X skips\repeats\glitches a bit and even crashed the game once. Just wondering if the STX's drivers are any better. Or maybe it's the games fault I don't know._

 

I've only played COD2 and Planetside with it so far. Sounds and works great! However, I'm not using GX2.5 with it. I'm not a fan of EAX so I'm using the "Miles Fast 2D" sound setting. 

 I've got a few more titles I'll play around with though over the next week or so now that the card seems to have mostly burned in. I have copies of COD1, FEAR, Far Cry, COD4, COD WAW, and Prey.


----------



## Bojamijams

I haven't noticed any issues either but so far I've only played L4D. I'm using the optical connection and DDL to my speakers though.


----------



## Brandon B

To anybody who has purchased one of these, do you think it would be in the same class or better than an EMU 1212m? I love my 1212m for music playback, but it doesn't do so well with gaming. It works perfect for some games, but about 30% of the games I play will have problems like stuttering or no sound at all. Also, it doesn't support EAX at all.. and the drivers don't work very well under Vista which isn't a problem for me now, but it could be in the future if I decide to upgrade. Again, I love this card.. but I really would like to find something with similar sound quality but more compatibility.


----------



## Vandal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





, When I use the word "Warm" I refer to a sound that is opposite from the scooped out digital type sound some devices have.
 Clarity and detail are on the top of my list for aspects I look for in a soundcard. I wouldn't use the term "warm" to mean the card is veiled or has no top end or clarity. If the card has a veiled top end or no clarity, I would say so. 
 This is a prime examples of why I hate to use words to describe sound quality as somebody will always misinterpret them._

 

Aha! Warm meant in the best possible way. So they have a great top end and good bass?

 Well sir, you and Alydon have made a believer out of me. Since all my audio is PC oriented; I'm ditching my X-Fi Plat for this - never liked the extra bassiness anyways.

 Thanks! And expect a review ^^since I'm another of those "SR 225 users"!


----------



## Hadakan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! And expect a review ^^since I'm another of those "SR 225 users"!_

 

That's great, Vandal, as I am one of "those" too. I'm strongly considering buying this card as something of a final audio source solution.
 My Prodigy HD2 isn't bad, but it just can't drive the current hungry SR225 properly and it's gaming performance is not satisfactory either. So I was looking at buying some headamp and cheap Xfi or Asus DX just for gaming.

 But now Essence has everything I would ever need from a sound card. So if it works reasonably well with SR225, I'm all in no matter what.


----------



## ADD

Could someone please let me know the exact length of this card excluding the mounting bracket please? I'm not sure it will fit in my mainboard owing to the northbridge cooler.

 Also, does this card support the analog loopback (ALT) functionality that was a feature of the earlier Xonar cards?

 Thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

The card isn't aslong as my GFX card although I am unsure of the Exact length. 
 As for "ALT" no this card does not support ALT loopback recording.


----------



## Brando

Sorry got another question please. Can dolby headphone be activated when listening from the dual rca output or does it grey out because it's not in headphone mode?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry got another question please. Can dolby headphone be activated when listening from the dual rca output or does it grey out because it's not in headphone mode?_

 

I just checked and no you can't. The RCA seem to be really made for speakers or receivers. 

 On another note, to anyone that owns this card, do you hear a clicking noise everytime you switch from Headphone to 2 Speaker mode?


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The card isn't aslong as my GFX card although I am unsure of the Exact length. 
 As for "ALT" no this card does not support ALT loopback recording._

 

Hi,

 Thanks. I printed out a copy of the photo of one earlier in this thread and made a rough guesstimate that the card is approximately 16.7 cm long, excluding the slot bracket.

 So it would fit my mainboard - with 1.5mm to spare. The lack of ALT is perplexing. For me this was the biggest selling point of the original Xonar series so far as headphone users was concerned.

 I would often take original WAV files and run them through the "ALT" function using the inbuilt Xonar Dolby Headphone functionality and with some judicious EQ. I would then end up with WAV files I could play on either a DAP or my Sony D50 in my bedroom - complete with Dolby Headphone pre-encoded plus any EQ applicable to the particular headphone I was using.

 So it seems that the Essence really would not be much use to me after all, as attractive as it seems. Very frustrating, as my original Xonar is on the blink and I have to replace it. And the other Xonars that do have the ALT functionality are all too long (as in card length).

 Anyway thanks for the quick reply. You have saved me some un-necessary drooling


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On another note, to anyone that owns this card, do you hear a clicking noise everytime you switch from Headphone to 2 Speaker mode?_

 

Sorry, I obviously don't own it, but perhaps switching relays?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just checked and no you can't. The RCA seem to be really made for speakers or receivers. 

 On another note, to anyone that owns this card, do you hear a clicking noise everytime you switch from Headphone to 2 Speaker mode?_

 

That's odd, I could've sworn I could use Dolby Headphone through the RCA outs. I'll have to double-check that when I get home from work cuz now I'm curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (not that I'll use DHP that much).

 As for the clicking, yes I hear it when switching between Headphone and Speaker mode. Like ADD said it's probably relays on the card switching on and off to route the signal to the appropriate output.

 OH, and ADD, I'll measure my card for ya when I get home too.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Almost every Xonar has relays, these re-route the signals depending on your settings. The clicking is perfectly normal and a sign the relay has routed a signal. You may also hear them clicking when you boot the system. This is a question that comes up from time to time.


----------



## Brando

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just checked and no you can't. The RCA seem to be really made for speakers or receivers. 

 On another note, to anyone that owns this card, do you hear a clicking noise everytime you switch from Headphone to 2 Speaker mode?_

 

That's a shame. The asus site says the next driver is supposed to have improved dolby headphone with better 3d positioning (hopefully). But since it won't work with the rca's I have to use the asus amp which may or may not be as good as my glite. Seems like they could have just done this with software 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I like online fps shooters and I was really looking forward to having a 3d headphone effect that really works. Someone said the built in amp is on par with a corda opera. How does the opera compare to a glite, particularly with my specific phones?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a shame. The asus site says the next driver is supposed to have improved dolby headphone with better 3d positioning (hopefully). But since it won't work with the rca's I have to use the asus amp which may or may not be as good as my glite. Seems like they could have just done this with software 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I like online fps shooters and I was really looking forward to having a 3d headphone effect that really works. Someone said the built in amp is on par with a corda opera. How does the opera compare to a glite, particularly with my specific phones?_

 

Well not to nitpick, but differences in amp quality should only really be important/usefull when listening to music. 

 When playing a game, can you really notice a difference from using one amp over another? I mean.. you're 'muddying' the sound anyway with Dolby Headphone so are you really going to be able to tell the difference of a gunshot from one amp to another? And in the grand scheme of things, how much would it REALLY matter? A gunshot, a scream, a headshot is going to sound pretty similar and lets face it.. its not like the designers are encoding it in WAV anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Also I'm curious where on the asus site you found out whats going to be included in the next driver. I'd like to Bookmark the page and keep an eye out if you can give us the link. Thanks


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On another note, to anyone that owns this card, do you hear a clicking noise everytime you switch from Headphone to 2 Speaker mode?_

 

I dont own an essence but their other sound cards make an audible clicking when the computer is turned on or a new driver is installed. Im sure its the same thing.


 edit-just noticed this was already answered above


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a shame. The asus site says the next driver is supposed to have improved dolby headphone with better 3d positioning (hopefully). But since it won't work with the rca's ..._

 

urr.... I don't see the connection between your post and your quote.
 What won't work with the RCA? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and where did Asus says what will be updated?....


----------



## Brando

I was talking about positional audio(dolby headphone, DS3D, whatever it is) working with the rca outputs of the stx rather than just the headphone out, and how I think it sucks that it doesn't work because it may be getting better with the next driver release for the D2X. This is the description for the beta version they have for the next set of drivers that they're working on. I assume that if they improve ds3d for one card they'll do it for all of them. To be honest I also mixed up dolby headphone and GX (oops hehe). Well I messed that all up but uhh...here's what I was talking about from asus's website.....

 Beta Version 5.12.8.1747

 Description Xonar D2X driver for Windows XP Version: 5.12.8.1747beta
 Upgrade new DS3D GX v.2.5 3D sound engine to support more vivid environmental reverberation sound effects for games and music.
 Fixed Bugs:
 1.No music in Mass Effects game
 2.Crash issue in Oblivion game
 File Size 17.9 (MBytes) 2008/09/29 update
 Download from Global China


----------



## audionewbieyao

Dolby Headphone only works with headphone out?

 I doubt it. According to the sepc, there is also Dolby Virtual Speaker that come with the card. So either way there must be somthing to use in the output.

 I think you over worried. Just relax... 

 Happy New year..


----------



## Bojamijams

Yeah you can use virtual speaker with the RCA outputs. Which I guess you could call relatively same thing if in the end they're going to be going into headphones.


----------



## XtremeD

Just in regards to Bojamijams, alot of games still use wavs. For example, the Quake series (QI to QIV), Half-Life 1/2, Cstrike/Source, Dod/Source, TF2, Left 4 Dead. Those latter games take up a huge proportion of the fps gaming industry.


----------



## Alydon

OK I confirmed what Boja said, Dolby headphone isn't available when listening through RCA outs. But he's right in that virtual speaker works fine and produces a very similar result.

 @ADD, I measured the the card. It is 170.5mm x 106.8mm x 19mm. The molex power connector adds another 16-18mm to the length when plugged in. So it sounds like it'd be too small for your case anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I spent a little more time listening to the amp section, and it's got about 50+ hours of burn-in now, so I would like to amend my comparison to the Opera a little. The STX's amp is _almost_ on par with the Opera, but the Opera is slightly better overall. The difference is very small tho. So small that when I use my Outlaw PCA IC's to connect the Opera to the STX, the Opera loses its advantage and I believe they are on equal footing.

 However, when I switch to using BJC LC-1 for IC's, then the Opera reveals that it is a slightly better amp. The soundstage is a little more 3D-holographic, and instruments are a little more focused and have slightly more body and presence within the soundstage than they do using the STX's amp. The bass is also a little more present, detailed, and textured as well.

 The STX's amp OTOH is a little more forward in the treble region, has slightly more air and a more natural/longer decay to sounds. The soundstage is also a little bit larger on the STX's amp than the Opera, and you're taken a half step back further away from the sound than with the Opera (a point that is neither good nor bad, just different). So with the STX you're standing in front of the conductor's stand, right in front of the orchestra. With the Opera you're sitting in the middle of the orchestra with the Viola's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, being the imaging and details freak that I am, I prefer the Opera. _Slightly._


----------



## mcegan

So I bought this card after following this thread, and I have to say the sound quality is amazing. This is my first non onboard sound and I'm loving the difference. I only have one big problem with this card.

 Whenever I try to load up World of Warcraft, it gives me a blue screen complaining about cmudaxp.sys, which is the driver file the card uses. Whenever I try to run dxdiag, it also gives me the same bluescreen when it reaches the sound area of the test. After restarting and running dxdiag again, it notices that I crashed last time at the direct sound part and asks if I want to skip that portion, so I say yes and it loads fine. I then pass all the direct sound tests fine.

 Later I find out that WoW and dxdiag only bluescreen whenever the DSP mode "DS3D GX" is not enabled. With it enabled, they load fine. The next problem is that when I have this enabled, I can't listen to music on winamp for some reason. It acts like it's muted. As soon as I turn it off though, it will play fine but then the blue screens are back with the other 2.

 Another problem is even though WoW loads with the DSP option on, I can't get any sound to run through it no matter what options I try to set. I have tried another Blizzard game which also uses eax effects (Warcraft 3) and it had no difficulty loading with the DSP mode off or on.

 I'm running Windows XP on a evga 680i LT mobo (Bios is the newest one). I just reformatted and installed windows fresh and it still blue screens in the same places without the DS3D GX on. This problem is extremely annoying and if I could get rid of it this card would be perfect. Any suggestions?


----------



## Bojamijams

Mcegan, have you uninstalled all your old drivers from the onboard sound card? And disabled your onboard sound in the BIOS?

 It seems like there may be some IRQ conflicts going on, though I'm not that well versed in them and I don't know if DS3D GX being on and off would somehow alleviate that. 

 Honestly, your best bet would be to call Asus tech support.


----------



## mcegan

Yes onboard sound is disabled and since this was a fresh install I never installed the onboard drivers.


----------



## Auidodude34

To the people that have the card is anyone running vista 64 and if so any problems with the drivers?

 Also can anyone recommend a good Volume Control I hate stopping the game just to higher or lower the volume.

 And for those wanted to buy one it's in stock over ncix.com for US users ncixus.com for $187! only 9 left!


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And for those wanted to buy one it's in stock over ncix.com for US users ncixus.com for $187! only 9 left!_

 


 Yeah and in STOCK THIS TIME, FOR REAL!...and did you guys noticed the changes that where made to their stock quotation system? you guys don't know what i went through with them but enjoy...whats the saying again? Ignorance is bliss? yeah thats right.

 @Auidodude34: If you had experienced and went through what i went through with them I'm sure you wouldn't be such an advert for them.


----------



## mcegan

Playing around with some of the preset equalizer settings, I found that S-Rock (soft rock I guess?) makes every song sound amazing. Turning it off now everything sounds really flat. With it on it really picks up the bass which is what I like to hear in my songs.


----------



## audionewbieyao

ok, can't wait for the slow NewEgg... 
 I just canceled it and ordered another from NCIXUS.com.

 It's a lot cheaper on NCIX than NewEgg after all...


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, can't wait for the slow NewEgg... 
 I just canceled it and ordered another from NCIXUS.com.

 It's a lot cheaper on NCIX than NewEgg after all..._

 

You sound like a shill dude...please stop


----------



## zimmzio

BTW let this be clear now...I do not hate NCIX.com. I just think that they employ a few under qualified customer care representatives... Heres a few words i would use to describe some of these individuals:

 Senseless: because they seem to lack purpose and need better guidance
 Apathetic: because they obviously don't care
 Drone: Because your just another # to them

 and yes, it is indeed very S.A.D

 That's it, it is said, and I wont be adding another word on the subject. My sentiments have been expressed.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, can't wait for the slow NewEgg... 
 I just canceled it and ordered another from NCIXUS.com.

 It's a lot cheaper on NCIX than NewEgg after all..._

 

I bet they have them they just haven't updated the site yet.

 yeah a lot cheaper it would of came out to $226 with California tax and shipping at newegg.

 ncixus.com came out total $205 with shipping and handing and insurance!

 And this is my first time ordering from NCIX see how it goes.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I bought this card after following this thread, and I have to say the sound quality is amazing. This is my first non onboard sound and I'm loving the difference. I only have one big problem with this card.

 Whenever I try to load up World of Warcraft, it gives me a blue screen complaining about cmudaxp.sys, which is the driver file the card uses. Whenever I try to run dxdiag, it also gives me the same bluescreen when it reaches the sound area of the test. After restarting and running dxdiag again, it notices that I crashed last time at the direct sound part and asks if I want to skip that portion, so I say yes and it loads fine. I then pass all the direct sound tests fine.

 Later I find out that WoW and dxdiag only bluescreen whenever the DSP mode "DS3D GX" is not enabled. With it enabled, they load fine. The next problem is that when I have this enabled, I can't listen to music on winamp for some reason. It acts like it's muted. As soon as I turn it off though, it will play fine but then the blue screens are back with the other 2.

 Another problem is even though WoW loads with the DSP option on, I can't get any sound to run through it no matter what options I try to set. I have tried another Blizzard game which also uses eax effects (Warcraft 3) and it had no difficulty loading with the DSP mode off or on.

 I'm running Windows XP on a evga 680i LT mobo (Bios is the newest one). I just reformatted and installed windows fresh and it still blue screens in the same places without the DS3D GX on. This problem is extremely annoying and if I could get rid of it this card would be perfect. Any suggestions?_

 

Are you sure that its when you _enable_ GX it works? There are numerous problems with GX [which is basically software emulated EAX incase you didnt know] however all the problems i've heard and personally had have been when its been enabled. Disabled = white lettering, Enabled=black lettering. If it was an issue when you enable GX then it would be, unfortunetly, the norm. There are a whole lot of games out there that either fail to load, cause an error, have no sound etc etc... all when GX is enabled. Once its disabled the experience is problem free. So make sure that isnt the case with you.

 Im suspecting you're misreading whether GX is disabled or enabled and winamp is the actual problem.

 Unfortunetly ASUS seems to be taking their sweet time on fixing these issues. They've been existant for about a year now. Of course that isnt stopping them for releasing more and more products utilizing the same buggy driver foundation. All in all their cards sound really good with music, but have been complete trash when it comes to gaming compared to X-Fi.


----------



## Brando

Well if this cards amp is almost as good as a corda opera that's pretty impressive. I googled the opera and it was $900. Is that right? LOL


----------



## igor_f

*Can anyone compare Essence with Claro Halo?*
 not by characteristics on a paper but by real experience listening both of this card.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if this cards amp is almost as good as a corda opera that's pretty impressive. I googled the opera and it was $900. Is that right? LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes that's right, the Opera Analog (the non-DAC version) was about that much at release. I believe the final price in Sept '08 when it was discontinued was something like $750.

 Keep in mind though that the Opera is a little more sophisticated than the amp section of the STX. The Opera has multiple inputs, a gain selector, two headphone-outs each with different output impedences, and that beautiful Meier crossfeed. It can also act as a preamp.

 Of course, it still is a very high-quality headphone amp.


----------



## KDE

Hi,

 will STX drive well these headphones
Panasonic - ideas for life - RP-DH1200E-S - Specification


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And in the grand scheme of things, how much would it REALLY matter? A gunshot, a scream, a headshot is going to sound pretty similar and lets face it.. its not like the designers are encoding it in WAV anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's usually 128k or 64k Ogg Vorbis these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Ogg Vorbis = free and no licensing fee unlike mp3, the main reason why more and more games use it for their gaming sounds).


----------



## Brando

It's not about the quality of the game sound effects. I just don't want to unplug my phones constantly. Not only is it annoying but I don't want to wear out the plug on the phones and the inputs on the stx and the glite.


----------



## limesinferior

i got a question regarding essence stx's external power connector

 can you confirm it is a 4 pin molex with:

 1 +12V Yellow +12 VDC
 2 GND Black +12 V Ground (Same as +5 V Ground)
 3 GNDBlack +5 V Ground
 4 +5V Red +5 VDC

 if i am right and it is the 4 pin molex decribed above, does anybody know what current requirement for 12V and 5V is in case of this card?


----------



## Bojamijams

Yes that is the 4 pin. And the current draw is very little I would think but I have no exact numbers for you.


----------



## limesinferior

thanks. do you think it needs less power than 30W? (in total for both 12V n 5V?)


----------



## Skin

certainly below 30 watts, probably more like half that.


----------



## yehuda

Yeah I would think so too. Anyone able to measure total system power consumption with and without the card?


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yehuda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I would think so too. Anyone able to measure total system power consumption with and without the card?_

 

yes, that would be very useful to have exact numbers for currrent requirements for 12 and 5 - i am also wondering if the card really needs both voltages. maybe it needs only 12V?

 if the molex is plugged in and the card draws power from it, does it also draw power from PCIe?

 is external power obligatory or optional? can the card also work on power delivered only by PCIe?


----------



## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, that would be very useful to have exact numbers for currrent requirements for 12 and 5..._

 

Useful for what purpose?


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, that would be very useful to have exact numbers for currrent requirements for 12 and 5 - i am also wondering if the card really needs both voltages. maybe it needs only 12V?

 if the molex is plugged in and the card draws power from it, does it also draw power from PCIe?

 is external power obligatory or optional? can the card also work on power delivered only by PCIe?_

 

it does draw power from both, it is required.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Since we are on the subject of power: The Logic power for the card is drawn from the PCI-E slot. However, the power for the analog amplification sections are drawn from the cleaner molex supply.


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Useful for what purpose?_

 

i am thinking about independent, external power supply with some linear characteristic, thats why power specification of the card discussed is of interest to me


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since we are on the subject of power: The Logic power for the card is drawn from the PCI-E slot. However, the power for the analog amplification sections are drawn from the cleaner molex supply._

 

maybe you could use your clout and connections to find out specific numbers for current draw for both the 12v and 5v lines-- i think there are lots of us who want to buy the card specifically to able to run it via an outboard, high quality linear power supply.

 thanks!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

I will see what I can find out
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As I said though this card has split supplies. I guess you would be talking about using the linear external supply to replace the molex supply?


----------



## Brando

Just get a Seasonic power supply. last time i measured one the 12v was 12.00v right on the money with no fluctuation shown on the multimeter. Plus they're really quiet!


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will see what I can find out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I said though this card has split supplies. I guess you would be talking about using the linear external supply to replace the molex supply?_

 

yes, exactly. thats what i am thinking about.


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get a Seasonic power supply. last time i measured one the 12v was 12.00v right on the money with no fluctuation shown on the multimeter. Plus they're really quiet!_

 

with full respect, quiet in what sense? this is a switch mode power supply so it generates among other things electronic noise, EMI and RFI produced due to the current being switched on and off sharply.


----------



## Brando

I thought I read somewhere that good power supplies are like a power conditioner. And by quiet I mean less fan noise.


----------



## zimmzio

Well i have to say this is turning out to be the best sound card i ever owned...Headphone amp section really starts to shine after a few hours of burn-in. A big thumbs-up to the Asus team who realized this little gem. Bravo!


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe you could use your clout and connections to find out specific numbers for current draw for both the 12v and 5v lines-- i think there are lots of us who want to buy the card specifically to able to run it via an outboard, high quality linear power supply.

 thanks!!!_

 

do you have any particular power supply model / manufacturer in mind? 

 i am also wondering how to syncro computer psu with external psu dedicated only to the card. i am not sure if powering the card earier or later than the computer woudnt make any damage.


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you have any particular power supply model / manufacturer in mind? 

 i am also wondering how to syncro computer psu with external psu dedicated only to the card. i am not sure if powering the card earier or later than the computer woudnt make any damage._

 

i would build one -- i don;t think powering the card all the time would matter, but you could just have a switch and turn it on at the same time as the main psu.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i have to say this is turning out to be the best sound card i ever owned...Headphone amp section really starts to shine after a few hours of burn-in. A big thumbs-up to the Asus team who realized this little gem. Bravo!_

 

grr Can't wait till NCIX sends mine out.. onboard sound card just sucks!


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with full respect, quiet in what sense? this is a switch mode power supply so it generates among other things electronic noise, EMI and RFI produced due to the current being switched on and off sharply._

 

I'm curious to see how much of a difference using an outboard linear PWS would be. I don't know much about linear power supplies, but I think one would produce a more "natural" output waveform at least in theory, correct?

 However, switching PWS's of sufficiently high quality have good enough shielding and cap filtering to drop EMI/RFI down to <10-20mV at the molex, which is pretty impressive. And isn't hum an issue with linear PWS's?


 @zimmzio, I see you used to own an EMU 1212m. I know you sold it a while ago, but can you share any thoughts on how the STX sounds compared to your memory of the 1212?


----------



## ADD

@ROBSCIX,

 Hi,

 I just have some more (very specific) questions about the Essense please, since I am going to need to replace my old Xonar pretty soon.

 1. Does the equaliser in the ASUS driver appear to work in the same manner as that of the older Xonar? My guess is it most likely works exactly the same by the looks of things (same frequencies, same bands).

 2. Does the SPDIF output transmit a true 24 bit, 192 Khz stereo PCM signal this time around? ASUS continually used to tell us that the older Xonar cards were capable of putting out a true 24 bit 192 Khz PCM stereo signal via the SPDIF output. Well, I have attached numerous recording devices (in sync) to my Xonar SPDIF output and blow me down if I have ever seen anything better than 16 bit, 96 Khz come out of it.

 3. Does processed Dolby headphone output come out of the SPDIF output (PCM stereo?). The older Xonar could manage this, so you got Dolby headphone out of both the analogoue output and the SPDIF.

 Thank you


----------



## audionewbieyao

ok, I got my baby Xonar Essence today.
 First impression, just like everone else --*This thing is phenomenal*. I've never enjoyed my headphone as good as today before.


----------



## sorinnsann

Hi, can anyone say how is this new soundcard compared to the emu 0404 usb


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ROBSCIX,

 Hi,

 I just have some more (very specific) questions about the Essense please, since I am going to need to replace my old Xonar pretty soon.

 1. Does the equaliser in the ASUS driver appear to work in the same manner as that of the older Xonar? My guess is it most likely works exactly the same by the looks of things (same frequencies, same bands)._

 

The EQ is the same across all Xonar cards, including this one.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. Does the SPDIF output transmit a true 24 bit, 192 Khz stereo PCM signal this time around? ASUS continually used to tell us that the older Xonar cards were capable of putting out a true 24 bit 192 Khz PCM stereo signal via the SPDIF output. Well, I have attached numerous recording devices (in sync) to my Xonar SPDIF output and blow me down if I have ever seen anything better than 16 bit, 96 Khz come out of it._

 

Afaik, it is a true 24/192 signal. Although I have never tested with any external gear. The chipset is capable of 24/192 and the DAC is also capable of 24/192 so I would say if you were having trouble perhaps it is a configuration error.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3. Does processed Dolby headphone output come out of the SPDIF output (PCM stereo?). The older Xonar could manage this, so you got Dolby headphone out of both the analogoue output and the SPDIF.

 Thank you_

 

I have never tested both S/Pdif output and headphones at the same time. Based on the options I can set, I would say yes you can as you can leave DH on while using S/Pdif output so I would htink you can use the two together. Keep in mind, I have never tested this configuration out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

For those asking about the current draw for the Essence for a linear supply. It is about 20 Watts, usually less.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@zimmzio, I see you used to own an EMU 1212m. I know you sold it a while ago, but can you share any thoughts on how the STX sounds compared to your memory of the 1212?_

 

Well i didn't listen to the STX's analog out section yet, I'm waiting for my amp to come back from servicing... the same amp i used with the 1212M w/HD595. But one thing is sure though, the STX is more dynamic and warm in character, the 1212M in comparison offers a very neutral presentation.

 I must add that i found the 1212M to be lacking in definition and depth, the card is just not that articulate, instrument separation and contour is well... not good enough for me, it offers good tonal balance though, very natural sounding. I'll put it this way "Reference without the details" kind of deal.

 *EDIT*
 This is not a comparative opinion btw, its based on my personal preferences and standards. The 1212M was just not good enough in resolving details for me, and i couldn't live with that anymore... kind of smeared them actually.

 *EDIT*
 One last thing here that i feel i must say is that I'm not saying the STX is "Reference Material" either... A little to warm for that I'm afraid(not in a bad way though, its very musical, well just like Robscix said i think... Very "Full Sound"). I'll have a better idea after Ive listen to it through my amp.

 *EDIT*
 Also I'm thinking of buying new headphones. AKG K701, K240MKII or BeyerDynamic DT990, dunno which yet, any suggestions? I have to experiment a little.


----------



## mcegan

Anyone else who has one have the same problem as me with the blue screen? To test go to Start -> Run -> dxdiag and see if it blue screens anywhere. Trying to figure out if it's the card or my setup or what.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else who has one have the same problem as me with the blue screen? To test go to Start -> Run -> dxdiag and see if it blue screens anywhere. Trying to figure out if it's the card or my setup or what._

 

Dxdiag works fine on my system. Pull the card and run dxdiag and see it is still happens. Try updating your Direct X.


----------



## mcegan

Yeah I have tried that. It works fine without it in, saying that there is no sound card inserted. Have also tried putting it in a different slot. I've tried everything I can think of. I have even reinstalled windows several times, changing the order in which I installed the chipset drivers and sound drivers. Just don't know what else it can be except for a motherboard incompatibility.

 On another note, this being my first non onboard sound, I have a sort of newb question. I know this is kind of subjective and depends on your headphones (I have hd555) but do you find that you need to change the equalizer at all, or do you feel that it sounds best left alone?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I have tried that. It works fine without it in, saying that there is no sound card inserted. Have also tried putting it in a different slot. I've tried everything I can think of. I have even reinstalled windows several times, changing the order in which I installed the chipset drivers and sound drivers. Just don't know what else it can be except for a motherboard incompatibility.

 On another note, this being my first non onboard sound, I have a sort of newb question. I know this is kind of subjective and depends on your headphones (I have hd555) but do you find that you need to change the equalizer at all, or do you feel that it sounds best left alone?_

 

You have updated your DX? Some like to use the EQ and some do not. All personal taste. Many use EQ to balance out there response on speakers or headphones. I wouldn't relay too much on the presets, although you can use them as guidelines. Adjust the EQ to get the best sound for you and your gear. That may be no adjustment or alot....


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I have tried that. It works fine without it in, saying that there is no sound card inserted. Have also tried putting it in a different slot. I've tried everything I can think of. I have even reinstalled windows several times, changing the order in which I installed the chipset drivers and sound drivers. Just don't know what else it can be except for a motherboard incompatibility.

 On another note, this being my first non onboard sound, I have a sort of newb question. I know this is kind of subjective and depends on your headphones (I have hd555) but do you find that you need to change the equalizer at all, or do you feel that it sounds best left alone?_

 

I had the same BSOD's happen to me when I first started using the card. If you google it you'll see it's an issue that been plaguing all CMI-based cards for a while now.

 I fixed it on the STX by either enabling or disabling either the GX or Game Mode buttons in the STX control panel. I'm at work atm so I'm not 100% sure which button it was, or if it needed to be on or off to get dxdiag to work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for the EQ, I leave it off. The tonal balance is pretty much spot on for me. I find that if I use the STX eq there is an overall slight drop in volume and it seems to muddy the sound a little bit. If I need to change the tonal quality the music I'm listening to I'll use the parametric eq and tube amp emulation features of the OzoneMP plugin that I have installed in Media Monkey/Windows Media Player. I get MUCH more satisfying results that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 @zimmzio, I use the DT990's (250ohm, 2005 version) and I find them to be an excellent match for the STX. The STX's lush midrange is a beautiful compliment to the sparkly highs and detailed, authoritative bass of the 990's. The two are a perfect match, IMO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact the STX+DT990 is the first combo where I don't feel I'm missing something in the music if I'm not using my OzoneMP plugin. I often forget that I have it turned off. And that is saying something.

 EDIT: Oh, and thx for you thoughts on the 1212m. It's about what I expected based on what I've read here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully as mor epeople buy it somebody here will be able to direct-compare the STX to an 0404 or 1820...


----------



## yehuda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those asking about the current draw for the Essence for a linear supply. It is about 20 Watts, usually less._

 

As far as you can tell, does the card seem to enter low power state when playback is stopped or headphones are unplugged? I'm just curious about that.


----------



## mcegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the same BSOD's happen to me when I first started using the card. If you google it you'll see it's an issue that been plaguing all CMI-based cards for a while now.

 I fixed it on the STX by either enabling or disabling either the GX or Game Mode buttons in the STX control panel. I'm at work atm so I'm not 100% sure which button it was, or if it needed to be on or off to get dxdiag to work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah if I turn on GX mode I can successfully run the dxdiag...the problem is that with it on several programs will not output any sound, Winamp being one of the main ones. Now this isn't that big of a deal if all I want to do is run dxdiag, but world of warcraft works the exact same way as dxdiag...same blue screen with dx off, but loads fine with it on. The problem here is that it is also one of those programs that won't output any sound with it on. I also have a feeling that several other games/programs will work this exact same way.

 If you know of any way to get around this let me know, I've tried literally everything I can think of. I hope it's not one of those things I just have to live with since the problem been around for so long without a fix, otherwise I'd rather just return the card for something that works.


----------



## ADD

I have to ask the bleeding obvious. Did you make sure the existing onboard sound was disabled in the BIOS? I know that Windows can theoretically run multiple sound devices, but as a matter of course I would disable any devices in the BIOS that I did not need.


----------



## mcegan

Yes onboard is off


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah if I turn on GX mode I can successfully run the dxdiag...the problem is that with it on several programs will not output any sound, Winamp being one of the main ones. Now this isn't that big of a deal if all I want to do is run dxdiag, but world of warcraft works the exact same way as dxdiag...same blue screen with dx off, but loads fine with it on. The problem here is that it is also one of those programs that won't output any sound with it on. I also have a feeling that several other games/programs will work this exact same way.

 If you know of any way to get around this let me know, I've tried literally everything I can think of. I hope it's not one of those things I just have to live with since the problem been around for so long without a fix, otherwise I'd rather just return the card for something that works._

 



 sounds like a motherboard compatability issue. As i already said theres tons of people that have already found GX to be a nightmare, however i have yet to read of anyone else having a problem when its _off_. 

 Unfortunetly this is the price you pay for early adoption. Personally, i'd wait for a driver revision and hope it fixes the issues. If not, then its up to you what you want to do. GX is busted on all their cards regardless, and for games its not like you need audiophile quality equipment anyway. I mean really, are you going to notice the difference in sound quality between an Essence and an X-Fi while distracted playing a game? Probably not.

 The only way the Essance would be worth keeping in your situation is if you're relying on it for its Amp when you're just listening to music. In this case it may be worth the hassel of simply buying another cheapo sound card [or using onboard, which would be a good test for you right now anyway] that works for your simutanous gaming and music and juggling between the 2 as the need arises since getting a new decent dedicated amp will cost as least as much as the Essence.


----------



## mcegan

True, I just wanted it to be able to do wow + music like my old onboard did and I'm sure eventually it will. I'm also pretty sure its because this is a Nvidia 680i board. If you don't know, they have had constant problems since it's release and personally it has given me blue screens on other things as well so it's probably just ****ing things up as usual.

 I got it mostly for music as I'm not really a hardcore gamer on my PC at all. WoW is about all I'll play consistently and if something good comes out I'll play through it once and never touch it again. EAX and positional audio and all that bs doesn't matter to me. I'm sure I can rig onboard to work for the games and the essence for everything else if I need to. I probably won't return it after all, it is pretty incredible to be able to tell on a song that's sung by a trio when each of them takes a breath, and to notice that on some parts they don't take that breath in sync; you can actually pick out when each begins to breathe in. That's pretty crazy.

 Does the amp do anything for low impedance phones like I have? Seems like when I set it to the 2nd highest setting it just makes the volume a lot louder. Sorry I'm an audio newb.


----------



## mcegan

Posting this for everyone that may come to this thread from google on this problem.

 Response from Asus on this

  Quote:


 Hi,

 We're aware of the issue and are working on it already.
 Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

 Thanks. 
 

So hopefully it will be fixed soon.


----------



## RobLikesBrunch

I have onboard sound, and want to upgrade.

 I was looking at Xonar DX which is about $90. However, I read a lot of good things about the STX and am wondering if the $100 difference is worth it? I'd be using a pair of HD595 with the card (I'd just be using a direct 3.5mm connection to the headphones from the audio card...no amp).

 Thanks.


----------



## Brando

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RobLikesBrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have onboard sound, and want to upgrade.

 I was looking at Xonar DX which is about $90. However, I read a lot of good things about the STX and am wondering if the $100 difference is worth it? I'd be using a pair of HD595 with the card (I'd just be using a direct 3.5mm connection to the headphones from the audio card)

 Thanks._

 

The fact that you're plugging straight into the card is exactly what makes it worth $100 more. Shop around for headphone amps and you'll see why having one built in to the card is such a value in comparison. Amping is a great thing imo and the fact that you're getting a great source along with a great amp makes it very worth it in my opinion.


----------



## RobLikesBrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The fact that you're plugging straight into the card is exactly what makes it worth $100 more. Shop around for headphone amps and you'll see why having one built in to the card is such a value in comparison. Amping is a great thing imo and the fact that you're getting a great source along with a great amp makes it very worth it in my opinion._

 

Great...this may be my solution now...

 Anyone know of a supplier that will ship it internationally?

 Found one...but they charge $50 for shipping a small package o.O


----------



## zslipknot

OK so im new to the site.. Hello everyone I have a few questions about the 2 sound cards looking at.. I'm interested in the ASUS Xonar Essence because of the headphone amp... Ive been using on board sound on my pc and I want to know if my hd555's will need to be amped for bass, because I want to get a card with EAX 5.0 like the X-FI Prelude by Auzentech (for Bioshock mainly).. I really want a way to adjust the bass on my headphones cause the only thing decent sounding for bass was when I plugged them into is a surround sound receiver and I was able to adjust the bass on there and it was no comparison to my on board sound.. Anyway thanks much let me know whats best Gurus up here... Ah I also use a Logitech Z5300 for my 5.1 stuff


----------



## Paradigm

I am wondering, If this card is really worth the upgrade. Currently my PC gear is as follows: Emu-1212m | Gilemore LITE | HD650

 I am getting the impression here that Those who own the New Asus Xonar STX are implying that's it headphone amp is in the same legue as $400 Dedicated amps. AM I to asume this is the case?


----------



## Bojamijams

Well Paradigm as far as I can tell only one user has compared it to that, mostly because the other ones don't have a $400 dollar amp I guess. I have a $300 DAC+AMP (Corda 3MOVE) and the STX is better. 

 zslipknot, I wouldn't worry much about EAX 5.0. As you know, EAX is going the way of the dodo with vista and also the new windows 7. So while you might be on XP and can use EAX on the prelude, pretty soon, you won't be able to. And the essence has EAX emulation which I think will fit your needs.

 Also, I had a prelude and replaced it with the STX. If that tells you anything.


----------



## padam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paradigm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering, If this card is really worth the upgrade. Currently my PC gear is as follows: Emu-1212m | Gilemore LITE | HD650

 I am getting the impression here that Those who own the New Asus Xonar STX are implying that's it headphone amp is in the same legue as $400 Dedicated amps. AM I to asume this is the case?_

 

Replace the DAC with the upcoming Pico DAC only version and get RCA couplers to connect it to the Gilmore Lite (no need for cables). You'll need to wait for it but that's the best you can do. I doubt the STX's amp beats the GLite.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *padam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Replace the DAC with the upcoming Pico DAC only version and get RCA couplers to connect it to the Gilmore Lite (no need for cables). You'll need to wait for it but that's the best you can do. I doubt the STX's amp beats the GLite._

 

I don't have a Gilemore Lite, but if they are listing the true spec:
 _______Gliemore Lite____Asus Xonar Essence STX]
 SNR____>100dB________124dB for Front-out,117dB for Headphone-out (600ohms) dB] 
 THD+N__<0.006%______0.0003% (-110dB) for Front-out, 0.001% (-100dB) for Headphone-out

 Source: 
HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (Gilmore Lite Headphone Amp)
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

 I won't say which one is better cause I don't have Gilmore Lite, but seems Asus is capable of outputing a bit more clear sound with less distortion.

 Subjective listening experience I'll leave it for real owners to tell us.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *padam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Replace the DAC with the upcoming Pico DAC only version and get RCA couplers to connect it to the Gilmore Lite (no need for cables). You'll need to wait for it but that's the best you can do. I doubt the STX's amp beats the GLite._

 

You doubt that the STX's amp beats the Glimore Lite... that means you haven't heard the STX. If that's the case what gives you the right to comment on the quality of the STX?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Has anybody tried some new Opamps yet?


----------



## zslipknot

so where do i pick one up seems to be sold out online everywhere.. any local spots have them yet?


----------



## HeadLover

I bought one on EBAY
 You can try there, I have still didn't got the reply from the seller thought ;(


----------



## ROBSCIX

From what I have been seeing in the forums many people are after this card so when stock comes in many already have it on Pre-order.


----------



## HeadLover

Yep, but there are some on EBAY.com, not ??


----------



## Auidodude34

For those that order from NCIXUS.com how long did it take to ship out? I order on saturday and still hasn't ship out. I'm worried if they don't ship it out before the stock runs out i'm F*&^%.

 This reply to my email 

 Due to the holiday season, our shipping team is very busy in handling all shipment but they will do their best to get orders shipped out as quickly as possible. At the moment, the order is waiting for shipping. Once the shipment is made, our Shipping Dept will provide you a tracking number by email. Please feel free to let us know If you have any further requests regarding the order.
 Thanks for your patience!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well here's hoping you guys get your cards. It will be well worth the wait.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody tried some new Opamps yet?_

 

I too am curious about this. We need more OPAMP tests 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have none yet as I'm just getting into this but I would like to specifically find an op-amp that would suit this card even better towards metal.


----------



## HeadLover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too am curious about this. We need more OPAMP tests 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have none yet as I'm just getting into this but I would like to specifically find an op-amp that would suit this card even better towards metal._

 

Me to here


----------



## audioAl

They are getting serious, I will watch this item closely, thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I think I will be running the opamp tests this weekend.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zslipknot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so im new to the site.. Hello everyone I have a few questions about the 2 sound cards looking at.. I'm interested in the ASUS Xonar Essence because of the headphone amp... Ive been using on board sound on my pc and I want to know if my hd555's will need to be amped for bass, because I want to get a card with EAX 5.0 like the X-FI Prelude by Auzentech (for Bioshock mainly).. I really want a way to adjust the bass on my headphones cause the only thing decent sounding for bass was when I plugged them into is a surround sound receiver and I was able to adjust the bass on there and it was no comparison to my on board sound.. Anyway thanks much let me know whats best Gurus up here... Ah I also use a Logitech Z5300 for my 5.1 stuff_

 

If all you're worried about is Bass any soundcard, or any recent onboard for that matter, has an Equalisation menu. Through that you can make your bass as heavy or light as you like. An AMP doesnt only increase bass, it improves everything. Given your tastes [bass head] and intended uses [music as well as gaming] i'd probably stick with the Prelude.

 By the way EAX does actually work in Vista, however its software emulation much like GX on the Xonar line, except the Xonars emulation doesnt function correctly on any game i've tried, most all of them recent.


----------



## Ziek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those that order from NCIXUS.com how long did it take to ship out? I order on saturday and still hasn't ship out. I'm worried if they don't ship it out before the stock runs out i'm F*&^%.

 This reply to my email 

 Due to the holiday season, our shipping team is very busy in handling all shipment but they will do their best to get orders shipped out as quickly as possible. At the moment, the order is waiting for shipping. Once the shipment is made, our Shipping Dept will provide you a tracking number by email. Please feel free to let us know If you have any further requests regarding the order.
 Thanks for your patience!_

 

I ordered mine on Saturday as well, received it today. There were 7 in stock that night so you -should- get one.


----------



## ROBSCIX

..and?
 You have no comments on the sound quality?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paradigm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering, If this card is really worth the upgrade. Currently my PC gear is as follows: Emu-1212m | Gilemore LITE | HD650

 I am getting the impression here that Those who own the New Asus Xonar STX are implying that's it headphone amp is in the same legue as $400 Dedicated amps. AM I to asume this is the case?_

 


 You are correct. I think I'm the only person who's posted a comparision of the STX's amp section to an external amp so far. Though I'm not _implying_ anything about it's sound quality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It _is_ superior to my Corda Blue, which for those who aren't aware is a Corda HA-1 MKI modded by KurtW. I paid $430 for the Blue about 4 years ago. You can read more about it here:

Corda HA-1 / Corda Blue Review 

 And how it compares to other amps here:

Corda Blue vs Prehead vs Gilmore review

 Zimmzio said a few words a couple pages ago comparing the 1212 to the STX. Apparently the STX is warmer/less neutral but less smeared, more resolving and fuller than the 1212. 

 So with the STX it sounds like you'd get a better DAC and roughly equal amp to what you have now.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *padam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Replace the DAC with the upcoming Pico DAC only version and get RCA couplers to connect it to the Gilmore Lite (no need for cables). You'll need to wait for it but that's the best you can do. I doubt the STX's amp beats the GLite._

 

I've not heard the GLite, but based on what I've read about how it compares to the Corda Opera (which I own and is reputed to be better than the Glite), I'd say the the STX's amp section is on par with the GLite anyway. It may come down to more of a preference thing between the GLite and STX-amp. 

 The Opera ($750) is superior to the STX-amp, but just barely. I sometimes have a hard time telling them apart, and those differences almost completely disappear if I switch from using my Blue Jeans Cable IC's to Outlaw Audio PCA IC's. Make no mistake, the STX has a _very_ nice amp section.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ziek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine on Saturday as well, received it today. There were 7 in stock that night so you -should- get one._

 

WOW I order on saturday also there was 10 in stock... i'm going to call them see what's going on/


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paradigm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering, If this card is really worth the upgrade. Currently my PC gear is as follows: Emu-1212m | Gilemore LITE | HD650

 I am getting the impression here that Those who own the New Asus Xonar STX are implying that's it headphone amp is in the same legue as $400 Dedicated amps. AM I to asume this is the case?_

 

Your wondering? 

 Ok listen, its late and I'm tired, so Im not gonna put to much effort here, you'll just have to trust me when i say that "This thing will breathe new life into your music" Its that simple! And believe me i could say allot more but i wont cause it makes my head spin thinking about it and I'm tired.

 *UPDATE*

 Look at it this way...The STX is like a little audio workbench...It offers a nice, clean and powerful SS amplifier that can drive any headphone with ease with the added benefits of a customizable analog section that you can experiment with by changing OpAmp's and fine tune its output and sonic flavor to suite your needs and preferences.


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW I order on saturday also there was 10 in stock... i'm going to call them see what's going on/_

 

I ordered this on NCIXUS just late Monday night and it was shipped out today. (tracking number was just given to me) Did they not give you a tracking number? When you call them, just tell them you went to Blaine High School and they'll hook you up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (it's extremely bizarre that this company resides in my old home town in a small little corner of Washington)


----------



## Ziek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..and?
 You have no comments on the sound quality?_

 

My jaw dropped when I cranked up Stranglehold. It feels exactly like when I went from $20 phones to my a900's. Hopefully I'll have more to say tomorrow.

 Had a hell of a time installing it, basically had to gut my rig. Drivers installed smoothly fortunately.


----------



## HeadLover

Wish someone will sell one for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even the guy on EBAY cancel my order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ( I am living out side of USA)


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wish someone will sell one for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even the guy on EBAY cancel my order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ( I am living out side of USA)_

 

Watch out, I bet it's a con... I mean, seems most of ppl are enjoying their decisions now (me included), guess you'll have to wait a bit longer....
 Sorry about it, pal..


----------



## twhtpclover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok listen, its late and I'm tired, so Im not gonna put to much effort here, you'll just have to trust me when i say that "This thing will breathe new life into your music" Its that simple! And believe me i could say allot more but i wont cause it makes my head spin thinking about it and I'm tired.._

 

Wow.. that's pretty strong comment.
 Wish you have a good dream there, and come back soon for more details...


----------



## HeadLover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Watch out, I bet it's a con... I mean, seems most of ppl are enjoying their decisions now (me included), guess you'll have to wait a bit longer....
 Sorry about it, pal.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

So, how and where can I buy it ??


----------



## ROBSCIX

You may not be able to at this point in time. It seems there is a very small quantity at the various dealers and many are already sold on pre-order.
 I would say if you want one and you see one that is in stock buy it. Don't wait as sombody else will scoop it up.


----------



## HeadLover

Do you know of any kind of one willing to sell it over seas? outside USA and Canada ?
 I am willing to pay the shipping costs!


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Woodsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered this on NCIXUS just late Monday night and it was shipped out today. (tracking number was just given to me) Did they not give you a tracking number? When you call them, just tell them you went to Blaine High School and they'll hook you up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (it's extremely bizarre that this company resides in my old home town in a small little corner of Washington)_

 

yeah got my tracking number today should be here Tuesday.


----------



## HeadLover

I wonder how can I get it


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how can I get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

zimmzio said this place ships to France, maybe you should give them a call

XONAR ESSENCE STX - ASUS XONAR ESSENCE STX 124DB SNR/HEADPHONE AMP CARD FOR AUDIOPHILES PCI-E - Sohodiffusion.com 

 Also I ask this before but never got an answer, Is anyone using Vista 64?


----------



## HeadLover

I am using Vista 64


----------



## HeadLover

I hope they will help me get one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone else that might ship it to Israel ?


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow.. that's pretty strong comment.
 Wish you have a good dream there, and come back soon for more details...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It is strong i guess, but it was meant for him mostly... Based on my experience and thoughts on the 1212M and nothing else.

 The Essence is like "Sonic Spice", It has allot more sonic energy then the 1212M, that in comparison is sterile and cold, it has a very lush-full sound; articulate and dynamic with quite good stereo imaging and depth; Amazingly nice and refine sonic performance for the money. This is based on what Ive heard so far from the Amp section alone but with its tweakable analog output section... things can only get better.

 On a side note; The 1212M is better suited for recording and not the other way around. The M in 1212(M) stands for Mastering Grade and refers to the ADC and input section and NOT the DAC and output section. I'm sure you already knew that, I'm saying for others.


----------



## Bojamijams

In regards to changing out the op-amp. The default STX card comes with the LM4562 which according to Benchmark in their high quality DAC's / AMPS (since even their top of the line DAC1 PRE uses it) is: 

 State-of-the-art LM4562 high-current op-amps

DAC1 Comparison Chart | Drupal


 So if you're going to change it out with another opamp, make sure the specs are higher then the 4562's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As apparently, its quite the beauty


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In regards to changing out the op-amp. The default STX card comes with the LM4562 which according to Benchmark in their high quality DAC's / AMPS (since even their top of the line DAC1 PRE uses it) is: 

 State-of-the-art LM4562 high-current op-amps

DAC1 Comparison Chart | Drupal


 So if you're going to change it out with another opamp, make sure the specs are higher then the 4562's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As apparently, its quite the beauty_

 

Actually i don't plan on changing that one at first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...Can you read my mind?


----------



## Bojamijams

Well that message was for ROBSCIX and Alydon (whose already changed it out to the LT1361)

 I'm not that well versed in op-amp so I don't know which of the two actually has better technical properties but the fact the 4562 is 'high current' is very appealing to me as that is whats needed to drive the true hi-fi headphones. 

 I wonder if the 1361 has the same current output.


----------



## zimmzio

All major analog IC manufacturers offer online datasheets on just about every part they make.

 Ti/BB - Focus Home Page

 JRC - NJR: Audio Op Amps, LDO Regulators, IC's, Amplifiers, Saw Filters, Custom Saw Filters

 National Semi. - http://www.national.com

 Linear Tech. - Linear Technology - Linear Home Page

 Analog Devices - http://www.analog.com/

 Check them out.


----------



## taso89

As far as I know the LM4562 is the only, if not one of the few opamps made specifically for audio applications. I think an LT1364 or OPA627 would also work well. Unfortunately this card is now sold out everywhere including NCIX =[


----------



## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In regards to changing out the op-amp. The default STX card comes with the LM4562 which according to Benchmark in their high quality DAC's / AMPS (since even their top of the line DAC1 PRE uses it) is: 

 State-of-the-art LM4562 high-current op-amps

 So if you're going to change it out with another opamp, make sure the specs are higher then the 4562's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As apparently, its quite the beauty_

 

The LM4562 is a decent OPAMP (it's too sterile for my taste), though there are, IMO, better ones for music; OPA627/637, OPA134/2134/4134, OPA604, AD8610/8620, LM6171... there are also quite a few discrete OPA as well: OPA-Moon/Earth/Sun and a couple others.


----------



## Bojamijams

Now what is this 'discrete opamp' . Can it be used in the same place as a 'non discrete' op amp?

 In your opinion, which would be the best op-amp for metal/rock music Jenneth? 

 And out of the ones you listed, which would you say is the best one ?


----------



## jenneth

Discrete OPA--
 -Burson OPAMP
 -OPA-Earth/Moon/Sun

  Quote:


 In your opinion, which would be the best op-amp for metal/rock music Jenneth? 
 

-That's a difficult question for me to answer, since I don't have an Essence, nor do I listen to Metal. I think maybe ROB could help you with that, since he has rolled quite a few different OPAs with his Essence.


----------



## Bojamijams

Well discretes aren't going to fit as they're freaking MONSTROUS! hehe

 Thanks for the links.


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well discretes aren't going to fit as they're freaking MONSTROUS! hehe

 Thanks for the links._

 

lol i'm going to have to go buy a new case just to fit one of those.


----------



## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well discretes aren't going to fit as they're freaking MONSTROUS! hehe

 Thanks for the links._

 

I think these comes with an extension cable, so you should be okay.


----------



## limesinferior

@Brando and @Alydon
 my intention was not to advocate for any of the two power supply types. i wanted only to point out that noise and vibration generated by fan and output voltage stability should not be the only things taken into consideration when assessing power supply. 



			
				Alydon;5244129 said:
			
		

> I'm curious to see how much of a difference using an outboard linear PWS would be.
> 
> yeah, i am curious as well
> 
> ...


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those asking about the current draw for the Essence for a linear supply. It is about 20 Watts, usually less._

 

thanks, are you able to divide it between 12v and 5V?


----------



## audionewbieyao

man.. that's hard, you'll have to call the engineer in Asus to answer that question I guess....


----------



## Auidodude34

JUST FYI those that order from NCIXUS.com FedEx has problem now!

 Flooding in Tacoma, Washington

 FedEx service in the Tacoma, Washington region, including areas north and south, has been affected by heavy flooding. Customers in some locations may experience delays until conditions improve. Our top priority is the safety and well-being of our employees and contractors. We are committed to providing service to the best of our ability in areas that can be safely accessed, and we will continue to monitor the situation. Continue to check fedex.com for service updates.


----------



## viscosity

I know its early but has anyone figured out the voltage supplied to the main opamp? Ideally it should be 9v or above for descrete opamp options.


----------



## twhtpclover

Isn't universal? 
 I thought.. if they make such design for OPAMP upgrade, they must have followed the sepc requirements.


----------



## HeadLover

Just ordered the DAC1 PRE, I am sure it will be better than the ASUS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (with a nice PRE, Headphones amp and a USB and a great DAC)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, are you able to divide it between 12v and 5V?_

 

No, I just asked for total current values.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered the DAC1 PRE, I am sure it will be better than the ASUS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (with a nice PRE, Headphones amp and a USB and a great DAC)_

 

I am sure it will be at $1595 but what does that have to do with the Asus?

 Anyway, is the Asus Essence available to buy anywhere at this point? I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with "1-2 weeks" of waiting with NCIX, but then Newegg is not selling this thing either..


----------



## Postalisback

Rob, is the "Sennheiser Veil" more or less noticeable with the Essence STX than with say, the X-Fi Prelude?

 That's all I'd like to know, thanks.


----------



## fzman

i just got mine -- sitting on my desk at work, waiting for the snow-bound commute home tonite to install in my audio-only pc....

 got it from shopsharksystems.com in ontario CA. got here farily quickly shipped ups express using my shipper account.

 got the parts to build a linear psu for it, but will try it with pc's psu first, and with the stock op amps just to see what it's like.


----------



## Fafner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_zimmzio said this place ships to France, maybe you should give them a call

XONAR ESSENCE STX - ASUS XONAR ESSENCE STX 124DB SNR/HEADPHONE AMP CARD FOR AUDIOPHILES PCI-E - Sohodiffusion.com 

 Also I ask this before but never got an answer, Is anyone using Vista 64?_

 



 I'm swiss and I got mine from here:

Shark Systems - XONAR ESSENCE STX - Asus

 Received it today, installed and voilà! It sounds great with my Grado GS1000...

 My only doubts are on how I should setup my PowerDVD's sound output to use the card's features...SPDIF like on X-FI? 6-speakers?...?


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got mine -- sitting on my desk at work, waiting for the snow-bound commute home tonite to install in my audio-only pc....

 got it from shopsharksystems.com in ontario CA. got here farily quickly shipped ups express using my shipper account.

 got the parts to build a linear psu for it, but will try it with pc's psu first, and with the stock op amps just to see what it's like._

 


 Same! I was actually very surprised by how fast they expedited the thing. I highly recommend them.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm swiss and I got mine from here:

Shark Systems - XONAR ESSENCE STX - Asus

 Received it today, installed and voilà! It sounds great with my Grado GS1000...

 My only doubts are on how I should setup my PowerDVD's sound output to use the card's features...SPDIF like on X-FI? 6-speakers?...?_

 

And it will get even better!


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My only doubts are on how I should setup my PowerDVD's sound output to use the card's features...SPDIF like on X-FI? 6-speakers?...?_

 

Yes! and set on 6 speakers for 5.1.


----------



## zimmzio

Oh! and i wanted to let people know that the asusaudiocentre skin is completely customizable...Theres a nice(cleaner) one over at deviantart.com here, it has to be modified a little to work correctly with the Essence though. I did the necessary changes myself.

 Actually, i wouldn't mind sharing my modified version, if somebody knows a good place where i could upload it to?

 *UPDATE*
 Ok wait, it is a very simple modification. just go in Asus_Xonar_Custom_Skin_by_dobee\Skin\Status - Copy StatusPanel_DX.jpg to your desktop, rename it StatusPanel_STX.jpg and put back in and Voila! After you can copy the \Skin folder to your asus driver folder, x:\Program Files\ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio\Customapp and overwrite(The asusaudiocentre must be closed first).


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh! and i wanted to let people know that the asusaudiocentre skin is completely customizable...Theres a nice(cleaner) one over at deviantart.com here, it has to be modified a little to work correctly with the Essence though. I did the necessary changes myself.

 Actually, i wouldn't mind sharing my modified version, if somebody knows a good place where i could upload it to?

 *UPDATE*
 Ok wait, it is a very simple modification. just go in Asus_Xonar_Custom_Skin_by_dobee\Skin\Status - Copy StatusPanel_DX.jpg to your desktop, rename it StatusPanel_STX.jpg and put back in and Voila! After you can copy the \Skin folder to your asus driver folder, x:\Program Files\ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio\Customapp and overwrite._

 

Check out drop.io It's free with no sign-ups 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for the link zimmzio. I modded Dobee's mod with your suggestion and removed support for the other cards (we're only interested in a STX skin right?) to reduce file size. 

 I have the mod available at Asus Xonar Custom Skin by Dobee

 Instructions:

 1. Right click on your Xonar Essence STX Audio Center system tray icon and select 'Exit'.

 2. Extract xonarstx.zip to your x:\Program Files\ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio\Customapp\ and overwrite


----------



## zimmzio

Double Thanks!


----------



## audionewbieyao

oh.. GOD.. the seceret chambers of the Xonar are gradually being discovered...

 And it looks great. Thanks Zimmio and Woodsmith!


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got the parts to build a linear psu for it, but will try it with pc's psu first, and with the stock op amps just to see what it's like._

 

will you share your experiences? what parts are you going to use?


----------



## Fafner

Btw, anyone using Vista 64bit having problems with the HD Front Panel audio output? Not that I'm going to use this that often, if I'm going to use it at all, but I can't get audio to my heapdhones from my case's HD front panel, although I attached the cable to the card. Can't exclude this could be a problem with my case, as tbh I never tried this feature on it...


----------



## HeadLover

I wonder
 Did anyone do a comparison between this card and an outside device DAC like the Benchmark DAC1 PRE or what ever ?


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, anyone using Vista 64bit having problems with the HD Front Panel audio output? Not that I'm going to use this that often, if I'm going to use it at all, but I can't get audio to my heapdhones from my case's HD front panel, although I attached the cable to the card. Can't exclude this could be a problem with my case, as tbh I never tried this feature on it..._

 

I haven't had a chance to check the manual if you can switch it but it is possible your front panel connector is AC'97 and not HDA. Check your case manufacturer's website/manual to find out.


----------



## Fafner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Woodsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't had a chance to check the manual if you can switch it but it is possible your front panel connector is AC'97 and not HDA. Check your case manufacturer's website/manual to find out._

 



 It's this one

Enermax: Produkte - PhoenixNeo ECA3162-BS


 Thus it's HD, at least from the specs...


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's this one

Enermax: Produkte - PhoenixNeo ECA3162-BS


 Thus it's HD, at least from the specs..._

 

That's nice looking case! I have a cooler master 690 that has HD fronts i'll give a try see what happens. And Zimmio that skin looks great!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, anyone using Vista 64bit having problems with the HD Front Panel audio output? Not that I'm going to use this that often, if I'm going to use it at all, but I can't get audio to my heapdhones from my case's HD front panel, although I attached the cable to the card. Can't exclude this could be a problem with my case, as tbh I never tried this feature on it..._

 

There should be two settings in the drop box: Headphones and FP Headphones. You need to set ot for FP headphones this should route the signal to the Front Panl Headphone jack. 

 Hope this helps.


----------



## Fafner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There should be two settings in the drop box: Headphones and FP Headphones. You need to set ot for FP headphones this should route the signal to the Front Panl Headphone jack. 

 Hope this helps._

 



 I know...as I said, no sound comes from the front panel when setting the output on FP Headphones...


----------



## subtle

Is this in stock anywhere in the US? I'm ready to click the buy button but I can't find it online.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know...as I said, no sound comes from the front panel when setting the output on FP Headphones..._

 


 Just checking. Maybe you do have the wrong connector perhaps.
 You could always change it out with one that is compatible. Until then just run the cans to the rear of the system.


----------



## Zblarg

I'm quite interested in this card, but I've read some people saying that the drivers had many problems and it was frequent not to have any sound when playing to games.
 I'm not a hardcore gamer and my aim is essentially to listen to music with my PC, but sometimes, I like to play and it would be a shame not to have any sound. Have you experienced some problems like this?

 Also, I don't have PCIe 1x slots on my motherboard, only PCIe 16x. Is it possible to put the Xonar into a 16x slot? Or maybe is there a PCI version?


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checking. Maybe you do have the wrong connector perhaps.
 You could always change it out with one that is compatible. Until then just run the cans to the rear of the system._

 

 This is why I asked AC'97 or HDA which he confirmed is HDA. Fafner you should double check the connection terminal and make sure its snug. It was a little difficult to put the connector all the way in for me (tiny PCI-E makes the board wiggle around like crazy). I know you've probably done this but make sure onboard audio is disabled. Alternatively you could enable onboard audio and connect the HDA connector to the mobo to get sound out that way... but I'm sure its not worth the Vista woes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *subtle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this in stock anywhere in the US? I'm ready to click the buy button but I can't find it online._

 

 It seems that NCIX keeps a few of these cards up on Ebay, act fast there are only 3 left as of this post!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zblarg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm quite interested in this card, but I've read some people saying that the drivers had many problems and it was frequent not to have any sound when playing to games ... I like to play and it would be a shame not to have any sound. Have you experienced some problems like this?

 Also, I don't have PCIe 1x slots on my motherboard, only PCIe 16x. Is it possible to put the Xonar into a 16x slot? Or maybe is there a PCI version?_

 

 Are you sure you're not talking about creative boards?  the Essence STX works perfectly for me (Intel MOBO, VISTA x64) and I play a lot of games with hardware sound enabled (including WoW which some have mentioned not working here). This card is compatible with any PCIe slot including x16. (its really because those x16 slots have legacy support much like USB 2.0 works with USB1 devices)


----------



## sam4gods

anyone have test this card pair with multimedia speaker ?
 like edifier C3, roth audiobloob2, or altec MX5021 ?


----------



## Bojamijams

You can put any device into a slot thats rated for it or higher

 ie. 

 pci-e x1 fits in x1, x4, x8, x16

 pci-e x4 fits in x4, x8, x16 but not x1

 etc.


----------



## ROBSCIX

As to the stability questions. I have been using this card for awhile now and playing games just fine with it.


----------



## Zblarg

Thank you very much. Do you think it could be a good source for an HD650 and a Stax headphone? The reviews are very convincing but I've not read anything about the STX associated with those headphones.


----------



## Bojamijams

It'll be fine for driving HD650. The stax are electrostats so they need their own special amp.


----------



## finaxe

I'll put to the tests my new Xonar Essence STX against the gears of Pompon: SinglePower MPX3 Slam, AudioResearch CD3 MK2, HD650 recabled with Equinox LE...

 Wait for our review...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 UPDATE: We can add his new acquisition --> SinglePower Dragon...


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll put to the tests my new Xonar Essence STX against the gears of Pompon: SinglePower MPX3 Slam, AudioResearch CD3 MK2, HD650 recabled with Equinox LE...

 Wait for our review...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very nice! Please make a new post, don't put the review as a reply here =D


----------



## crash02

Is there any way to get this card to output I2S?


----------



## taso89

Quick question.. the manual instructs to use the 3.5mm to RCA adapter to connect headphones to the RCA outs. Why would you do that when you have a headphone out specifically for that? Is there a difference in sound quality between the outputs?


----------



## twhtpclover

I think it's a manual writer error.
 The card is designed to have headphone to the 1/6", and speaker to the RCA for sure. The software is also designed that way, so must be a maunual error.


----------



## XtremeD

Someone mentioned crosstalk on the smaller 3.5mm plugs, can someone explain that + how much of an issue is that for soundcards?

 Also, my Cyberlink PowerDVD comes with Dolby Headphone option atm, and I can run it with my Realtek onboard soundcard. So how is this different to having the Essence STX that supports it?


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will you share your experiences? what parts are you going to use?_

 

go to the audioasylum forum-- pc-audio, and look for the post from john swenson regarding a linear power supply for the fit-pc. he posted a schematic and instructions for a good psu. it wil have to be made for both 5v and 12v, and we are not sure yet whether it is big enough, since we don't have the specific current demands for the two voltages seprately. maybe rob can get more specific answers from asus.....

 20 watts is a pretty big supply, so this is a work in progress. i just ordered the parts from digikey (inductors from mouser). 

 i am enjoying the card with the stock opamps and the antec psu built into the fusion case for the moment. it is very palpable and full-bodied, but could be a bit more dynamic. i've only got about 24 hours on it, playing a huge play list via winamp. i'll try to follow-up as i figure out more about the card. 

 best,

 Mark


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Fzman, I am working on getting you more specific current requirement.


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Fzman, I am working on getting you more specific current requirement._

 

ROBSCIX, thanks for taking the time to contact asus to find that out for us. i say 'us' because it seems like several people want to pursue this. John Swenson has posted a very good psu which may work, or need some adjusting to supply the relevant current for both the 5v and 12v lines. i hope i didn't come across acting as if you owed us that info. if i did, i am sorry. seems like as a reviewer, you;ve got better access to asus, so i was simply hoping that they would be willing to give you the info, without too much additional effort on your part.

 i am going to try to build the 12v part of it today, and see what happens. so far the card, feeding my main speaker-based reference system is sounding very good. it is the most natural of the ones i've tried so far --- juli@ analog via rca and balanced, juli@ via spdif coax via several dacs, and two different versions of the prodigy hd-2, both re-op-amped both via toslink and analog rca.

 that said, it could be a bit more dynamic, and because it is so full-bodied sounding, it seems to lack a bit of top-end sparkle and samp. on the other hand, it is not bright or screechy, and is very analog sounding. 

 it barely fits in my gigabyte mobo, because the single ram module is sort of in the way of the back of it. nothing in the mobo manual specifies that either slot is mandatory when using a single ram module, so i am going to move it over, next time i power down. 

 more to follow.........


----------



## ROBSCIX

No worries, I understand you are just asking. I will go through my channels and if I can get the info I will as I like modding audio devices myself so I would like to see the results of this.

 Do you think a external PSU will make the much of a audible difference?
 Consider: The STX has power tapped right from the PSU and they use high quality capacitors for power filtering. Don't get me wrong, I am excited to see how the project turns out. Good Luck I will see what info I can get.


----------



## limesinferior

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll put to the tests my new Xonar Essence STX against the gears of Pompon: SinglePower MPX3 Slam, AudioResearch CD3 MK2, HD650 recabled with Equinox LE...

 Wait for our review...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

WOW


----------



## limesinferior

fzman;5275391 said:
			
		

> go to the audioasylum forum-- pc-audio, and look for the post from john swenson regarding a linear power supply for the fit-pc. he posted a schematic and instructions for a good psu. it wil have to be made for both 5v and 12v, and we are not sure yet whether it is big enough, since we don't have the specific current demands for the two voltages seprately. maybe rob can get more specific answers from asus.....
> 
> thanks. according to this thread Audio Asylum Thread Printer john swenson's psu is optimized for 1-1.5A with max at 2A so lets wait for power specification. many thanks ROBSCIX
> 
> ...


----------



## limesinferior

what material has been used by asus for emi shielding of the analog section. anyone knows / has any hints - i would appreciate some info in this area


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XtremeD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, my Cyberlink PowerDVD comes with Dolby Headphone option atm, and I can run it with my Realtek onboard soundcard. So how is this different to having the Essence STX that supports it?_

 

I'm quite sure people here ain't buying no Essence STX for Dolby Headphone only, the key here is the audio quality and the way it supports our lovely headphones with an even lovelier amp.


----------



## d(((--)))b

after reading all these comments about this soundcard I ordered my Xonar STX from a local store. But the NZ Stores wont have them till next month or so.

 so its worth the wait right


----------



## taso89

Just committed to buy this thing, picked up the last one from NCIX on eBay! Here's to hoping they actually have it.. 

 I will post impressions, plus impressions with OPA627 as well!


----------



## XtremeD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTrouble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm quite sure people here ain't buying no Essence STX for Dolby Headphone only, the key here is the audio quality and the way it supports our lovely headphones with an even lovelier amp._

 

Nice first post 

 No my question was more to ask is whether the hardware will be doing the Dolby Headphone processing as opposed to Cyberlink Powerdvd (dvd software) doing it? And if anyone has experienced it, is there a difference between software and hardware dolby headphone?


----------



## fzman

limesinferior;5278711 said:
			
		

> fzman;5275391 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## riderforever

Hi to everybody!
 This is my first post in this forum, and first of all I want to thank you all for the detailed reports on this really awesome sound card!

 I really can't wait to have it available here in Europe... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see that some of you are trying to build a linear psu in order to give better juice to the analog stage of the Essence. That will surely improve the sound, but why not starting with opamp replacement?

 In particular I think that using a discrete opamp as buffer, instead of the LM4562, will make a big step forward in terms of dynamics, resolution and texture.

 At least this is what I've found after the replacement of the frontal opamp of my Auzen X-Fi Prelude with a discrete one from Burson Audio.









 You only need to make room for it in your pc case


----------



## ROBSCIX

A few of use have been looking down that road and experimenting with opamps.


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XtremeD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice first post _

 

Nice first reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Indeed, if you A/B onboard+Cyberlink's Dolby Headphone with Xonar's Dolby Headphone, you'll find Xonar kicking onboard codec's butt very seriously (I did this with realtek / Xonar D1).

 But the key here ain't Dolby headphone, it's Xonar's superior sound quality making the virtual surround waaaay better than onboard, all the details are brought up and made a seriously realistic sound image. I don't know if it's a hardware Dolby headphone, but I can assure you that we just can't ignore sound quality when trying to compare sound effect.

 BTW, just saw this card awarded by a more gamer-oriented media - 
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...view/page8.asp


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi to everybody!
 This is my first post in this forum, and first of all I want to thank you all for the detailed reports on this really awesome sound card!

 I really can't wait to have it available here in Europe... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see that some of you are trying to build a linear psu in order to give better juice to the analog stage of the Essence. That will surely improve the sound, but why not starting with opamp replacement?

 In particular I think that using a discrete opamp as buffer, instead of the LM4562, will make a big step forward in terms of dynamics, resolution and texture.

 At least this is what I've found after the replacement of the frontal opamp of my Auzen X-Fi Prelude with a discrete one from Burson Audio.









 You only need to make room for it in your pc case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

welcome to head-fi!

 might i ask how you installed the Burson discrete opamp on the prelude? it's a $130 opamp, so i'm expecting it to sound good when i get mine, hopefully with the STX.

 Edit: i'm also wondering if it comes with a plug...so i can attach it to the opamp section of the STX.


----------



## Bojamijams

Problem with discrete opamps, is you're not going to be able to use the EMI shield as the socket is under there.


----------



## riderforever

You're right, with the discrete opamp the EMI shield can't be used. Anyway I'd like to try using the Essence without it and see if there are noticeable differences, also with the help of RMAA suite.

 The last version of the Burson Discrete Opamp needs a little work to be mounted, so I contacted the Australian guys and they sent me the previous version of their opamp, named 101. 
 As you can see in the picture of my first post, it's ready to be plugged into the traditional 8 pin socket, so the replacement is very straightforward.

 The other good news is that the price of that opamp was 90 AUD instead of 155 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the opamp replacement does have effecte only on the RCAs line-out and can't alter the quality of the integrated headphone amp, am I right?


----------



## taso89

OPA-Earth from Audio-GD is exactly the same thing, and priced much cheaper than Burson's discrete opamp; Zero owners have confirmed that the only difference is in the price.


----------



## XtremeD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTrouble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice first reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Indeed, if you A/B onboard+Cyberlink's Dolby Headphone with Xonar's Dolby Headphone, you'll find Xonar kicking onboard codec's butt very seriously (I did this with realtek / Xonar D1).

 But the key here ain't Dolby headphone, it's Xonar's superior sound quality making the virtual surround waaaay better than onboard, all the details are brought up and made a seriously realistic sound image. I don't know if it's a hardware Dolby headphone, but I can assure you that we just can't ignore sound quality when trying to compare sound effect.

 BTW, just saw this card awarded by a more gamer-oriented media - 
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review_

 

Sorry you're missing the point again. I am not doubting the Asus sound quality (afterall I am thinking of buying it). I am just wondering whether the Asus being specially compliant with Dolby HP will be any different, to say the Auzentech Forte 7.1, which could easily play Dolby HP through the PowerDVD codec.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ROBSCIX, thanks for taking the time to contact asus to find that out for us. i say 'us' because it seems like several people want to pursue this. John Swenson has posted a very good psu which may work, or need some adjusting to supply the relevant current for both the 5v and 12v lines. i hope i didn't come across acting as if you owed us that info. if i did, i am sorry. seems like as a reviewer, you;ve got better access to asus, so i was simply hoping that they would be willing to give you the info, without too much additional effort on your part._

 

Here is some more in depth info,

 Q1, How much current does the 12 volt line Draw and how much current does the 5 volts lines draw. -for the molex connector.

 Ans: +12V --> 0.15A, +5V --> 0.68A

 Q2, Also, does the card draw less power when the headamp chip isn't been used?

 Ans: Yes


 Hope this helps.


----------



## Auidodude34

Has anyone tried a mic on it yet? PS I still haven't got mine yet it was out for delivery yesterday than it never got here so I check the tracking and it said sent back to FedEx Package not due for delivery!!


----------



## taso89

Quick question! Did anyone try to order this from NCIX outlet on eBay? I did and I don't want to send payment unless they actually have it in stock..


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finaxe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll put to the tests my new Xonar Essence STX against the gears of Pompon: SinglePower MPX3 Slam, AudioResearch CD3 MK2, HD650 recabled with Equinox LE...

 Wait for our review...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool... But i hope you'll let 100~150hours of burn-in on the amp section before you do...


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question! Did anyone try to order this from NCIX outlet on eBay? I did and I don't want to send payment unless they actually have it in stock.._

 

I don't think they would sell them on ebay unless they actually had separate stock for their ebay items. Could you imagine buying something on ebay and then the seller telling you that they don't have the item you just paid for so wait a week before they get it in stock?? Their approval ratings would go down in flames. The longer you wait to pay them, the longer it will take for you to receive this wonderful card. If you're that paranoid, just give them a call. (1-888-502-9777)


----------



## limesinferior

ROBSCIX;5287055 said:
			
		

> Here is some more in depth info,
> 
> Q1, How much current does the 12 volt line Draw and how much current does the 5 volts lines draw. -for the molex connector.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bojamijams

I should mention that with the current driver, I'm having issues getting the MIC IN working. Not a big deal as I have onboard for that, but I would like to get it resolved eventually. 

 Anyone else having issues with MIC IN? 

 I'm running vista x64 sp1


----------



## mcegan

Quote:


 I should mention that with the current driver, I'm having issues getting the MIC IN working. Not a big deal as I have onboard for that, but I would like to get it resolved eventually.

 Anyone else having issues with MIC IN?

 I'm running vista x64 sp1 
 

In the GUI make sure you have the mic selected since it uses that same jack for many different kinds of input. Go to the mixer tab at the bottom, then look a little farther up and click "Record". You'll see a bunch of volume bars. The second from the left is the Mic one. You have to click the little gray ball under the bar so that it turns red (hard to explain but you'll see it; I think Mix is the default one selected). I had to click the balls back and forth a couple of times to get it to work my first time.

 Edit: On a side note, right below the ball on the mic bar is another button you can press. This will send your mic input to output (headphones/speakers) so you can easily test if it works that way.

  Quote:


 Has anyone tried a mic on it yet? 
 

I use vent pretty frequently and I remember the first time I switched from onboard to the card and said something, they all told me that I sounded really really clear and asked me what I did differently. And I'm only using a dinky 5 dollar mic that sits on my desk, so I'm pretty sure the mic input is excellent from personal experience.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thank you. one more q. this is 5.2W, significantly less than expected 20W. Are these values measured at "full load"?_

 

You have PM.


----------



## Brando

Back in stock at Newegg. I ordered one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Newegg.com - ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone AMP Card - Sound Cards


----------



## d(((--)))b

I finally got my Xonar STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Sounds clear and clean and my music sounds so detailed now and I love the bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW I am using it with HDJ1000.

 Question: Is it normal for the card to get hot ? I installed 2 hours ago and its hotter than my 8800 GTS.


----------



## Ziek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use vent pretty frequently and I remember the first time I switched from onboard to the card and said something, they all told me that I sounded really really clear and asked me what I did differently. And I'm only using a dinky 5 dollar mic that sits on my desk, so I'm pretty sure the mic input is excellent from personal experience._

 

Same exact thing happened to me. Using a 7$ Zalman mic myself.


----------



## dex85

guys, do you think this card will be able to drive K701 properly? i'm looking to upgrade from HD555 and need to know if Essence will be up to the job.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my Xonar STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Sounds clear and clean and my music sounds so detailed now and I love the bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW I am using it with HDJ1000.

 Question: Is it normal for the card to get hot ? I installed 2 hours ago and its hotter than my 8800 GTS._

 

Is your GTS blowing its exhaust onto the card?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, do you think this card will be able to drive K701 properly? i'm looking to upgrade from HD555 and need to know if Essence will be up to the job._

 

Yes, the Essence STX should have no issue driving your headphones.


----------



## dex85

^^ thanks mate


----------



## XtremeD

Also, make sure the 8800GTS's backplate (not sure if they have it, my old 8800GTX did), is not too close to the soundcard either. 

 I had this problem when installing my X-Fi soundcard in the PCI slot right behind my 8800GTX. It fried within a few hours of use, as it did not have any means of getting rid of its heat.


----------



## taso89

Review round-up 1/14/2009:

*TweakTown*
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound Card :: TweakTown (fantastic review)

*FiringSquad*
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review (not so great)


----------



## Woodsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*FiringSquad*
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review (not so great)_

 

You will notice the only thing this article didn't like about the STX is that frequencies at 40kHz+ volume will fluctuate 1dB (though he mistakenly said 20kHz+) which falls exactly where the graph in the manual said it would under frequency response and then assumes that this is poor performance


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Review round-up 1/14/2009:

*TweakTown*
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound Card :: TweakTown (fantastic review)

*FiringSquad*
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review (not so great)_

 

TweakTown tested the Essence with a Sennheiser HD433 while Firingsquad used the Logitech Z5500.


----------



## taso89

Firingsquad didn't even use a decent pair of headphones (this is primarily an analog headphone/speaker sound card, mind you), they used one pair of earbuds which they said sounded good.

 "...the accuracy of the Essence seemed to drop off itself once it got above the 20kHz range, which is not something you want to see when the card is being billed as ‘reference quality.’"

 Was this a heard or measured analysis? 'Cause last I checked human ears don't even hear up to 20kHz, which is not something you want to see when you're looking for a 'good review.'

 And the Logitech Z5500's take a digital input, so it is no indication of how good the sound card is anyway.


----------



## jenneth

I thought both reviews are fairly positive.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Firingsquad didn't even use a decent pair of headphones (this is primarily an analog headphone/speaker sound card, mind you), they used one pair of earbuds which they said sounded good._

 

The Tweaktown used a pair of Sennheiser HD433, correct? Those are not good either.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the Logitech Z5500's take a digital input, so it is no indication of how good the sound card is anyway._

 

Yeah, I thought that was pointless too.


----------



## Auidodude34

Well I got my card last night I did have to switch my video card to the bottom PCI Express 2.0 slot the fan on the video card was all most hitting the card when I had it on the top slot. Well guess no cross fire for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This sound card bough the sennheiser 595 to life after using the ASUS mobo onbaord for the past year. Bass sounds like I have to 12ich subs in back of me, the highs sound good but could be better I just need more time tweaking it as well as the mids. I only have about 30mins on it so it should get better after the burn in and time to start saving for 650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should mention that with the current driver, I'm having issues getting the MIC IN working. Not a big deal as I have onboard for that, but I would like to get it resolved eventually. 

 Anyone else having issues with MIC IN? 

 I'm running vista x64 sp1_

 

Mine is working good people said in ventrilo I sound a lot better than the onboard line in.


----------



## kuben

Someone knows when this card will be released in Europe?


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone knows when this card will be released in Europe?_

 

From my past experience if you're having trouble buying Xonar stuff in your country, one way to go is to get to the dealer and complain the availablity issue, so they may go and wake up ASUS sales force to offer 'em the cards...that's how I get my Xonar D1.

 Just a tip for those who can't seem to find the cards on local market, keep in mind that it's us who spend the bucks and we're always right.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is your GTS blowing its exhaust onto the card?_

 

Thanks for the reply ! no my Xonar STX is placed above my GTS. They are pretty close but they are not touching. My GTS takes up 2 slots. So if I put the Xonar STX on the 2nd PCI-E16X slot which is below my GTS, then its likely that GTS will blow its hot air on to the Xonar STX.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This sound card bough the sennheiser 595 to life after using the ASUS mobo onbaord for the past year. Bass sounds like I have to 12ich subs in back of me, the highs sound good but could be better I just need more time tweaking it as well as the mids._

 

Do you mean you've listened to another sound card that was better in those fields?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone knows when this card will be released in Europe?_

 

Here in Italy will be available on 5th February


----------



## XtremeD

For those with this card already, are you using the headphone 1/8th connection, or are you adapting it to the 2xRCA connections?


----------



## Brando

Just played a few songs for the first time with my new stx out of the headphone amp jack at low gain on my ad2000's. So far pretty impressive. Very solid sound. I think this is what I was missing from the D2X. I'm pretty sure the D2X has a really crappy power plug and it was effecting the sound. I had to push it in a couple times after the sound got really low for no apparent reason. I had assumed it was a driver problem at first but it was just a stupid floppy power plug design. Thanks to the nice solid 4 pin molex on the stx it sounds very solid without any annoying occasional artifacts. The D2X could be fixed easily by bending the power plug pins a little but I prefer the robust 4 pin molex type on the stx by far. So far so good!


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XtremeD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those with this card already, are you using the headphone 1/8th connection, or are you adapting it to the 2xRCA connections?_

 

Its a 1/4" jack not a 1/8" (mini)

 The RCA is a lineout so you really really shouldn't do headphones out of it. Its meant for speakers or a separate amp.


----------



## Brando

AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! Every time I try to start FEAR multiplayer (favorite game)I crash\restart to a blue screen and can just barely make out the words memory dump before it restarts. Please Asus make a new driver ASAP! This thing sounds freakin awesome but even the emu 0404 usb I tried out yesterday could run FEAR. Gimme a break already.


----------



## crash02

Someone on audioasylum has had success using this linear power supply with the Xonar D2X 
Jameco Electronics Power Supplies & Wall Adapters: REGAL ELECTRONICS, INC: RJM551228


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crash02* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone on audioasylum has had success using this linear power supply with the Xonar D2X 
Jameco Electronics Power Supplies & Wall Adapters: REGAL ELECTRONICS, INC: RJM551228_

 

Man.. I just checked it out, and that's really some comments on the benefit of changing to linear power... @_@ is it that good?

Computer Audio Asylum - True - but at the time when I bought it, I compared it against Benchmark - - carcass93 - January 15, 2009 at 12:45:57
  Quote:


 It's far from SOTA, but still it's pretty amazing that $200 card rivals, and beats, $1000 DAC. To adjust for actual prices paid - it's $129 vs. $850.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man.. I just checked it out, and that's really some comments on the benefit of changing to linear power... @_@ is it that good?

Computer Audio Asylum - True - but at the time when I bought it, I compared it against Benchmark - - carcass93 - January 15, 2009 at 12:45:57_

 

Some people claim that a modded XFi beats the benchmark DAC. Go figure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Ha.. got it..

 But one thing is for sure: all those cards have space to improve by mods...


----------



## twhtpclover

I don't mod, and I don't have time to mod, so the origianl quality is waht matter to me only. I think it also applys to most of the generic users..


----------



## Brando

Could somebody with the Essence stx please run dxdiag and tell me if it works or not? Please list your motherboard and OS in your post as well. It blue screens and restarts when I try just like when I try to play FEAR. This is in windows xp 32 bit. The event viewer says event 1001 save dump and lots of other numbers I won't post because it won't let me copy\paste in their stupid window 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Loquitotrucho

Finally got unlazy and went to pick-up my card ( i love my town lots of ghetto PC part dealers lol) today. Costed me an extra 144$ because of a stupid parking ticket, thank you Mr. Agent from Montreal !!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Connected my HD-595 they sounded good , i can hear lots of new details on the beats. My FLAC and ALAC songs sound great. I did put the headphones on High Gain by accident lol ( low volume ) they did sound super nice haha.. but i guess i shouldn't do that right ??? nominal gain on HD-595 is 50db and High Gain is 64 db-300db on card.

 Then i connected my Pro media Klipsch, amazing sound came out of them very precise sound , clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also with the spdif out i connected it to my Yamaha HTR-8190 with a pair of RTi10's, CSi3 and Velodyne DPS12. Big difference from the default mobo HD realtek sound. With the Dolby Virtual Speaker on they sounded better, but it still needs to be tweaked. Ive only listened to music no movie yet.

 Last my Dynex 2$ mic works no prob , since i disabled my back mic input, i hooked up the front panel inputs to the card directly and that did the trick.

 All in all the card is a big improvement on SQ , very happy with the result, i guess it will improve with "burn in" effect. Wouldn't mind installing a opamp to it later on.


----------



## Loquitotrucho

***grr double post***


----------



## mcegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could somebody with the Essence stx please run dxdiag and tell me if it works or not? Please list your motherboard and OS in your post as well. It blue screens and restarts when I try just like when I try to play FEAR. This is in windows xp 32 bit. The event viewer says event 1001 save dump and lots of other numbers I won't post because it won't let me copy\paste in their stupid window 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

Kind of glad you posted as I haven't found anyone besides me who has had this problem, so it would be interesting to see what components we have in common. It bluescreens on dxdiag and also on World of Warcraft loading screen. I wouldn't doubt it would also do this on FEAR. I have posted on the official ASUS forums and they say they are aware of it and are working on a fix...but who knows how long that will take. A work around for me right now is to click "GX" before running either dxdiag or WoW. This will skip the blue screen. After successfully getting into either program, I can safely off GX mode and no blue screen happens. The problem is that I can't hear sound in WoW no matter what I do...but it's not a big deal to me as the sound is kind of unnecessary in that game anyway. But for FEAR....yeah, kinda need the sound. I'm pretty sure the workaround will leave you in the same boat as me on WoW; it will get you past the blue screen, but you won't get any game sound.

 Don't bother trying to fix it yourself...trust me I spent an entire day of trying different things. Reinstalled windows several times, tried different BIOS's, different orders of driver installations, switching ram slots, etc. I have a feeling it's because of my motherboard, which is listed down below. If you have the same one tell me and I'll post it in the thread I started on the ASUS forums.

 CPU: Intel Q6600
 Ram: G. Skill DDR2 800
 Mobo: EVGA Nvidia 680i LT
 GFX: XFX 8800GTX
 OS: Windows XP Professional 32bit Service Pack 3


----------



## Brando

Thanks for the reply. My motherboard is an Asus P5B-deluxe. I got the game to run by going into the game config and checking disable all sounds. I got beat pretty bad though. Sound is really useful in fps's apparently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well hopefully they fix it soon. I really want this card to work out since I can hear a whole extra layer of stuff that wasn't apparent with the D2X. It's not night and day but it's significant enough for me to be glad I bought it.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! Every time I try to start FEAR multiplayer (favorite game)I crash\restart to a blue screen and can just barely make out the words memory dump before it restarts. Please Asus make a new driver ASAP! This thing sounds freakin awesome but even the emu 0404 usb I tried out yesterday could run FEAR. Gimme a break already._

 

HOTHOTHOT.. this is just in..
 I went to Asus forum to see if anyone's reporting the same issue, and found they've just posted a feedback answering to this issue, check it out:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- FEAR & WOW crash FIX

  Quote:


 Posted:1/17/2009 12:56:00 PM # 1 

 Dear all,

 We have located the issue caussing some games to crash during or after loading, including FEAR and World of Warcaft Online.

 The issue can be duplicated and is caused by the same reason as World of Warcraft / dxdiag (direct sound diagnosis).

 The next STX driver release which is scheduled to release on next week will have the issue fixed.


 Best,


----------



## Brando




----------



## mcegan

I had another question about the card...since it says in the specs it outputs 24bit...should I enable the bit depth in foobar to be 24 instead of the default 16? Not sure if that's what bit depth is or not.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had another question about the card...since it says in the specs it outputs 24bit...should I enable the bit depth in foobar to be 24 instead of the default 16? Not sure if that's what bit depth is or not._

 

yes, select the 24-bit option in foobar AND the windows mixer.


----------



## taso89

Card came in about an hour ago! Thanks NCIX on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thoughts so far:

 I'm going to compare this card to what I know: Zero DAC with Earth HDAM, Xonar DX, Sansa Clip. 

 The card is CLEARLY superior to all three, including the $200-ish Zero with OPA-Earth. The Essence STX has a tiny hint of warmth, a brand new level of detail that wasn't there before. The card is extremely revealing, but not in a fatiguing way, rather in a musical way. The card NEEDS burn-in. By far the best $200 I've spent. 

 One tiny issue: at 24 bit/44.1khz I hear a tiny bit of noise that disappears when switching to something like 24bit/96khz. I just keep it at 96khz but I don't know if this affects SQ.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the Essence STX definately has some high quality sound.
 Great deal for $200 given the sound quality out of the box. 
 The sound will improve and change as the card burns-in and settles. Enjoy.


----------



## Hadakan

I'm so getting this one, when it's released here in Europe!

 One question though. I have SR225 which have low impedance but high current demands. What should be the gain on this card set to, so it would drive these headphones properly? As I understand it, the higher gain levels are for cans with high impedance (up to 600 ohms). Grados of course have 32 ohms, but when I was considering M^3 amp I learned that for Grados higher (5) gain is better.

 So now I'm kinda confused about what gain should I use on Essence STX.


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Card came in about an hour ago! Thanks NCIX on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thoughts so far:

 I'm going to compare this card to what I know: Zero DAC with Earth HDAM, Xonar DX, Sansa Clip. 

 The card is CLEARLY superior to all three, including the $200-ish Zero with OPA-Earth. The Essence STX has a tiny hint of warmth, a brand new level of detail that wasn't there before. The card is extremely revealing, but not in a fatiguing way, rather in a musical way. The card NEEDS burn-in. By far the best $200 I've spent. 

 One tiny issue: at 24 bit/44.1khz I hear a tiny bit of noise that disappears when switching to something like 24bit/96khz. I just keep it at 96khz but I don't know if this affects SQ._

 

I currently own a Zero DAC with OPA-Earth but have been very interested in this card. Have you been using these devices without an external amp? I own a Darkvoice tube amp and so DAC quality is what I've been looking for. Also, I know you just got this card, but please report back if you decide to stick that discrete opamp on the Essense, I'd like to know the improvements


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently own a Zero DAC with OPA-Earth but have been very interested in this card. Have you been using these devices without an external amp? I own a Darkvoice tube amp and so DAC quality is what I've been looking for. Also, I know you just got this card, but please report back if you decide to stick that discrete opamp on the Essense, I'd like to know the improvements_

 

Unfortunately I no longer have the Zero with the discrete opamp in my possession, sold it last week. However, when connecting my Little Dot I+ to the Essence RCA outs, I do notice improvements from my memory over the Zero with OPA-Earth. The Essence has a little bit more detail and pushes it out in a more musical and fluent way (for lack of better words) than the Zero with the Earth.

 Has anyone tried this card with OPA627 yet? I will probably swap tonight to give it a listen


----------



## KDE

Anyone tried to compare volume/power/quality of headphone output of STX and Xtreme Gamer/Music/Audio using same settings and headphones, which have impedence less than 64 ohm?


----------



## riderforever

There is one thing that is still unclear to me: does the opamp replacement affect the headphone out as well as line-out, or the latter only?

 I don't get where the circuitry separation starts (or is it only a matter of power source separation?)


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway, I'm in the middle of writing a *massive* review of this card as I have been sent the Essence STX to review by the only store in New Zealand to stock them, ComputerLounge, and it will cover *many* aspects so stay tuned!


----------



## twhtpclover

cool.. looking forward for it...
 But I don't see there's review section in ComputerLounge, is it in another site?


----------



## Brando

Here's the specs for the cards amp if it hasn't been posted already.
Audio Amplifiers - Headphone Amplifiers - TPA6120A2 - TI.com
 What are the thoughts of people that know what to make of it?
 I don't know what's good as far as amps go. 80 mw into 600 ohm. What's that into 1 ohm? Curious how it compares to my glite spec-wise.


----------



## taso89

Well I quickly swapped to OPA627 last night (I shouldn't say quickly at all, it takes forever). However I was very disappointed. The OPA627 is a fantastic opamp for the Zero DAC/amp, but it was terrible in my Little Dot I+ amp and it's terrible in the Essence too. OPA627 sucked detail out, and put a little more bass. It turned the Essence into more like a $70 sound card rather than a $200 one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Swapped back to LM4562 and it sounds great! I'm keeping this thing in until someone thinks they have a better opamp


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I quickly swapped to OPA627 last night (I shouldn't say quickly at all, it takes forever). However I was very disappointed. The OPA627 is a fantastic opamp for the Zero DAC/amp, but it was terrible in my Little Dot I+ amp and it's terrible in the Essence too. OPA627 sucked detail out, and put a little more bass. It turned the Essence into more like a $70 sound card rather than a $200 one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Swapped back to LM4562 and it sounds great! I'm keeping this thing in until someone thinks they have a better opamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well thank you for testing it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1 down... 5? to go =D


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cool.. looking forward for it...
 But I don't see there's review section in ComputerLounge, is it in another site?_

 

I'll post it on their forums first then post on other forums, including Head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Not 56k friendly


----------



## pompon

I tried with 2 other friends a linear powersupply on the STX and that gave a positive influence on the soundquality.

 BTW, for my tastes, I tend to prefer X-Meridian (with lm4562) over the STX because the STX give a little bit too much details for my tastes.


----------



## Brando

I've decided I prefer my Gilmore lite to the built in amp but it's not bad at all. Just not as good as the Glite. Might be the low impedence but I'm not sure. Thought I read somewhere AT phones need amps with certain characteristics not necessarily related to quality. High current I think?


----------



## d(((--)))b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I'm in the middle of writing a *massive* review of this card as I have been sent the Essence STX to review by the only store in New Zealand to stock them, ComputerLounge, and it will cover *many* aspects so stay tuned!_

 

I agree with you.. Computerlounge was the only store in NZ who have these cards in stock. Many stores in NZ have listed them on their website but they wont have them till next month. Anyways I am looking forward to your reveiw...


----------



## limesinferior

pompon;5320043 said:
			
		

> I tried with 2 other friends a linear powersupply on the STX and that gave a positive influence on the soundquality.
> 
> interesting. what psu it was ? custom made or from the shelf?


----------



## finaxe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limesinferior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
I tried with 2 other friends a linear powersupply on the STX and that gave a positive influence on the soundquality.

 

interesting. what psu it was ? custom made or from the shelf?_

 

The PSU is similar to this one: 


> Triple Output DC Bench Power Supply 0-30V/0-5A w/Large LCD Display (CSI3005XIII)


----------



## pompon

Finaxe ... try your PC with VD Power3 instead Verastarr. Your Verastarr is in the bright side, very detailled and stiff with the highs.

 Maybe try a stock powercord too .. with and without power conditionner.

 I am convinced will be a better match.

 When we was using the external supply, remember, was plugged with a stock powercord on powerconditionner.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Pompon, You guys just connected a Bench supply to the Molex Connector on the STX?

 What improvments did you notice?


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Pompon, You guys just connected a Bench supply to the Molex Connector on the STX?



 What improvments did you notice?_

 

i just finished up my linear psu for the stx, feeding it +12 and +5 via the molex connector. i ended up building two supplies, which share only the iec socket and the wall cord. compared to the stock configuration ( molex from internal psu) the sounded opened up, bass is much better defined and deeper, there is more resolution because there is a much blacker background, dynamics improved dramatically (which struck me as a weak point of the card in its stock config). the highs also opened up a bit. with the computer psu, the stx was highly listenable, but a bit too warmish and syrupy-- now it is close to perfect (wondering what the opamp swaps will acheive...)

 i highly recommend using a quiet, regulated linear psu for this card-- it deserves it!


----------



## twhtpclover

Can you post a picture of your gears now? I'm really interested in trying it out.
 Thanks.


----------



## riderforever

*@fzman*: congratulations for your results. May I know which is your PC power supply? How do you manage to automatically turn the linear psu up and down when you switch on and off your pc?


----------



## BigTrouble

Just got mine and it sounded........OMG, what can I say. I even used it to monitor some mixes I've done (I play in an indie band) and found all the details previously unnoticed. That's a great combinition with Xonar's ASIO drivers.

 I hope them make an Essence for notebooks, I'm thinking of swithing completely to laptops these days and would like the same goodies on it (X-Fi sucks!). Something like an express card would be nice, I believe those guys at ASUS have no problem getting the same quality on it. Anybody got the same thoughts?


----------



## Bojamijams

I looked back in the thread and couldn't find a link.. which PSU did you use?


----------



## fzman

guys -- i built the psu from a design posted by john swenson in the pc audio forum of audio asylum. there's a thread regarding a linear supply for a fit-pc. that's what i built. he spec-ed adjustable regulators, and i ended up using fixed voltage regulators (2940s) for both the 12 and 5 v supplies. the original spec for power consumption that robscix got for us was 20 watts, but that must be with the headphone amp on the card running. i am just using tha analog outs in an audio-only pc that is in my main system for speaker listening. because of the original power consumption figure, i ended up with a transformer which is bigger than need be, and it ends up supplying about 25v of raw dc. this was too much voltage for the 5v regulator to drop, so i ended up using a second transfomer (same kind, smaller model) for just the 5v section.

 it's ugly in its current state, and eventually i'll build it into a 2u size chassis which i already have, once i get ambitious. 

 all of the parts came from digikey except the chokes, which can be found via a web search.

 the audio-only pc is built in an antec fusion case, using the supplied power supply, which is good, but not great. it is a very simple machine, with only a single wd green 1tB hard drive, and a pioneer dvd drive. video is onboard, and it is running xp sp2. i play music on it in the cics cmp2 environment, using winamp, with a recompiled otachan asio plug in, also sourced from audio asylum.

 hope that helps.

 mark


----------



## fzman

ah, forgot to mention the on-off switching. right now, the pc stays on 24-7 (it's really stable since it is dedicated, and running almost nothing beside xp and the player software. if i get going, and build the psu into a nicer case, i may use a relay, triggered by a molex from the internal psu, to switch the ugly beast external on and off in synch with the pc itself.


----------



## Diesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried with 2 other friends a linear powersupply on the STX and that gave a positive influence on the soundquality.

 BTW, for my tastes, I tend to prefer X-Meridian (with lm4562) over the STX because the STX give a little bit too much details for my tastes._

 

I wonder if the result would be the same for me against my Prelude 7.1.


----------



## Diesp

Looks like a new Auzentech card is coming : Auzentech, Inc. X-Fi Home Theater HD : World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys -- i built the psu from a design posted by john swenson in the pc audio forum of audio asylum. there's a thread regarding a linear supply for a fit-pc. that's what i built. he spec-ed adjustable regulators, and i ended up using fixed voltage regulators (2940s) for both the 12 and 5 v supplies. the original spec for power consumption that robscix got for us was 20 watts, but that must be with the headphone amp on the card running. i am just using tha analog outs in an audio-only pc that is in my main system for speaker listening. because of the original power consumption figure, i ended up with a transformer which is bigger than need be, and it ends up supplying about 25v of raw dc. this was too much voltage for the 5v regulator to drop, so i ended up using a second transfomer (same kind, smaller model) for just the 5v section.

 it's ugly in its current state, and eventually i'll build it into a 2u size chassis which i already have, once i get ambitious. 

 all of the parts came from digikey except the chokes, which can be found via a web search.

 the audio-only pc is built in an antec fusion case, using the supplied power supply, which is good, but not great. it is a very simple machine, with only a single wd green 1tB hard drive, and a pioneer dvd drive. video is onboard, and it is running xp sp2. i play music on it in the cics cmp2 environment, using winamp, with a recompiled otachan asio plug in, also sourced from audio asylum.

 hope that helps.

 mark_

 

Thanks for the indepth reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But, for those of us without the know-how and/or time, is there any 'off-the-shelf' power supply you would recommend for this? Something of equal or greater quality then the spec you followed?


----------



## alg7_munif

Hey Rob, I hope you still remember me. My X-Meridian is starting to show its age now, the sound is not balance anymore. I'm now looking for a new sound card. Too bad Auzentech doesn't make a sound card with user replacable OPAMPs anymore. 

 I'm now looking at the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe and the Xonar Essence. I can't make up my mind yet but I hope someone will help. I will be using the card with LM 4562 OPAMPs. Mostly I'll be using HFI-780 and HD 595. I'll be using the analogue connection and I'll also be connecting the card to an Onkyo SR 504 receiver. Thanks in advance.


----------



## pompon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Diesp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if the result would be the same for me against my Prelude 7.1._

 

X-Meridian 7.1 with lm4562 is better to the Prelude considering the review I have read. 

 The prelude is good soundcard and no need to change that.

 An external DAC is definitively a good idea ... I heard a 125-150$ DAC (DIY) be as good as my X-Meridian. Was only the board with chips .. with a case will probably around 200-250$.

 It's a better way to upgrade IMO ... keep your prelude and just feed a good DAC with it. You will be able to keep it longer than a soundcard ...


----------



## xBlackEaglex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alg7_munif* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the sound is not balance anymore._

 

Maybe it's dusty?
 I have backups for ones that are drying off this is what I do, wash the dust off under a bath tap. Shake it, gently pat with tissue. Wrap in paper and leave in airing cupboard for a few days if not weeks. Maybe psychological but I swear cards sound better when they're freshly cleaned. Never had an electrical issue doing this, only issue is not letting dry out long enough, water hides under surface mount pins sometimes causes short circuit damage, but only happens if not dried long enough.

 Sound quality aside, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sure I appreciate quality, but I don't put all my decision factors completely under one goal). Anyone know the framerate performance of this new card? currently my onboard sound on my newer P5Q motherboard is around 10FPS faster than my fastest sound cards. 

 Cheers.


----------



## alg7_munif

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xBlackEaglex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe it's dusty?
 I have backups for ones that are drying off this is what I do, wash the dust off under a bath tap. Shake it, gently pat with tissue. Wrap in paper and leave in airing cupboard for a few days if not weeks. Maybe psychological but I swear cards sound better when they're freshly cleaned. Never had an electrical issue doing this, only issue is not letting dry out long enough, water hides under surface mount pins sometimes causes short circuit damage, but only happens if not dried long enough.

 Sound quality aside, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sure I appreciate quality, but I don't put all my decision factors completely under one goal). Anyone know the framerate performance of this new card? currently my onboard sound on my newer P5Q motherboard is around 10FPS faster than my fastest sound cards. 

 Cheers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've never washed it but I've tried using a canned air, no luck. I really like my X-Meridian with LM 4562 and I'm sad that I can't buy a replacement anymore.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Sorry about that... but now you can upgrade to Xonar Essences then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


 Looking forward to see final review from Robscix on HWC... the sneak preview has been there forever, when is the final review coming?


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking forward to see final review from Robscix on HWC... the sneak preview has been there forever, when is the final review coming?_

 

Yup, I'm also waiting for that, the sneak peak got me so much into this card, bought it and LOVE it. Hopefully somebody out there will review this baby with some decent headphones.

 Two scary things happened during my late night listening, the first being an acoustic guitar track I've done a week ago, when listened with STX, I can HEAR MY BREATH when I played the guitar, it's not about the mic being senstive, just I never get to those detail on any other playback source.

 Another thing is that when I listened to some of my most familiar tracks everythings seemed waaaaay better. For the tracks in Rent musical (very nice songs!), the dynamics just come so alive and you can feel the actors talking and expressing themselves instead of singing. Very huge difference, I suggest you go througn all your favor tracks to actually feel the difference.

 Be noted that I'm not switching from onboard.... I used a line6 toneport, but not anymore. I'll stick to STX except when I need line6's software to simulate guitar amp sound.


----------



## limesinferior

pompon;5320043 said:
			
		

> I tried with 2 other friends a linear powersupply on the STX and that gave a positive influence on the soundquality.
> 
> 
> @Pompon, @FinAxe
> ...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Nearly done the review!
 Should be up by tomorrow!
 Promise!

 Another promise is that it won't be 56k friendly


----------



## Bojamijams

Is it possible for anyone to compare the DAC of the STX to other standalone DAC like Benchmark DAC? Use whatever amp you wish, I'm just curious on the DAC quality of and how it compares to standalone DAC's.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible for anyone to compare the DAC of the STX to other standalone DAC like Benchmark DAC? Use whatever amp you wish, I'm just curious on the DAC quality of and how it compares to standalone DAC's._

 

x2


----------



## pompon

@limesinferior
 FinAxe will respond you when he will made his review of our little meet.  I was just a listener when he put the bench supply on his STX.


----------



## ttol

Just a warning for gamers who are thinking about getting this card.. Asus driver support makes Creative look godsend.

 They release drivers roughly once a year (this is counting their buggy beta releases) and do not really seem that interested in fixing anything.

 The basic features more or less work but then you don't buy a card this expensive just for that.. for example their "DS3D GX" (Asus version of EAX) causes blue screens, CTDs or just removes half of the sound effects from the game..


----------



## Brando

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a warning for gamers who are thinking about getting this card.. Asus driver support makes Creative look godsend.

 They release drivers roughly once a year (this is counting their buggy beta releases) and do not really seem that interested in fixing anything.

 The basic features more or less work but then you don't buy a card this expensive just for that.. for example their "DS3D GX" (Asus version of EAX) causes blue screens, CTDs or just removes half of the sound effects from the game.._

 

They actually surprised me this time around by announcing those new drivers on the 25th that will fix my issues with FEAR multiplayer. I can't comment on EAX because I always felt like it was worthless when I had an xtrememusic. I don't use special effects with the xonar either. None of that crap really seems to work but maybe it was the game I don't know. After I realized that simulated 3d audio didn't really work I decided to focus on sound quality.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a warning for gamers who are thinking about getting this card.. Asus driver support makes Creative look godsend.

 They release drivers roughly once a year (this is counting their buggy beta releases) and do not really seem that interested in fixing anything.

 The basic features more or less work but then you don't buy a card this expensive just for that.. for example their "DS3D GX" (Asus version of EAX) causes blue screens, CTDs or just removes half of the sound effects from the game.._

 

Do you own this card?


----------



## abelincoln

My essence STX makes a clicking noise when the computer is starting up. It's similar to the noise that some receivers make when they're switching inputs. Is this normal?

 Also, is there a consensus that it's best to set windows and soundcard's utility to 24/96 playback for best sound quality?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bojamijams

The clicking is normal. Thats the relays switching signal paths (I asked this earlier too) 

 The other question I don't know enough to comment.


----------



## abelincoln

Bo, thanks for the reply. Sorry everybody for the redundant question.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Don't worry, few people will link the high quality component on AV gears to PC sound cards.

 The relay protects your speakers and your ears from unexpected pop sound caused by power surge when booting.


----------



## Auidodude34

Has anyone tired windows 7 beta with the card? I'm think of giving the beta a try after hearing nothing but good things about it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry, few people will link the high quality component on AV gears to PC sound cards.

 The relay protects your speakers and your ears from unexpected pop sound caused by power surge when booting._

 

I don't know about that. there are many,many people I talk with that have their PC hooked into their home theater systems or connected to high end AV gear.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Auidodude34* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tired windows 7 beta with the card? I'm think of giving the beta a try after hearing nothing but good things about it._

 

Yes I'm using Windows 7 beta and it works perfectly fine. The only difference is that the Xonar control panel thinks it's XP so you can't change the number of channels (it's set to 2 by default and unless you use a surround system it doesn't make a difference).


----------



## Auidodude34

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I'm using Windows 7 beta and it works perfectly fine. The only difference is that the Xonar control panel thinks it's XP so you can't change the number of channels (it's set to 2 by default and unless you use a surround system it doesn't make a difference)._

 

Cool thanks i'm going to give a shot see what all the fuzz about windows 7 is about.


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They release drivers roughly once a year (this is counting their buggy beta releases) and do not really seem that interested in fixing anything._

 

How do you figure this? I see no less than 6 driver releases for the PCI version of the original Xonar since July 2007 and 4 versions of drivers for the PCI Express version of the original Xonar since Novemner 2007. Am I missing something or was I knocked on the head and I've just woken up in 2013?


----------



## audionewbieyao

The drivers pretty much fixed all my previous problems. If you want bug free device, I suggest you stay with onboard stuff, they're the best.


----------



## mcegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The drivers pretty much fixed all my previous problems. If you want bug free device, I suggest you stay with onboard stuff, they're the best._

 

Where did you find the new ones? I looked today on support.asus.com and it still only gives me the old driver. Do you have a link to it?


----------



## Brando

I found the driver but it won't download. I keep clicking on it and nothing happens. ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Support-


----------



## ROBSCIX

Anybody experimenting with opamps on this card yet?


----------



## sluggoaudio

I just received the Xonar STX card: I see that there are 3 socketed op amps: 1 LM4562 and 2 JRC 2114D. I've gone through this forum, the Asus forum and the manual and I can't find any reference as to what these chips are doing. If anyone actually knows what the "swappable" opamps are doing, I'd love to know. I've posted over on the Asus forum so maybe I'll get an answer over there. 
 The National chip is a good one, but the JRC's are nothing special; I'm a bit curious what they are doing on a $200 card.
 By the way, I noticed some discussion about using the Burr Brown 627. That is a single op amp, while the 4562/ 2114's are duals: besides the functional difference, they use different pins for the positive supply so I wouldn't try THAT mod!
 Also, if anyone has been able to sucessfully download the driver update, please let us know.
 Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Bojamijams

The only swappable opam is the LM4562. 

 And yeah you can't use single opamps unless you wanna go down to mono from stereo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (if you somehow managed to put it in the socket and not fry it, that is)


----------



## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only swappable opam is the LM4562._

 

Are you sure? Because from all the photos I've seen, all three OPAMPs seem swappable to me.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And yeah you can't use single opamps unless you wanna go down to mono from stereo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (if you somehow managed to put it in the socket and not fry it, that is)_

 

Just get a few single-to-dual OPAMP adapter and he should be fine.


----------



## Bojamijams

Only problem with that is the added height prevents the use of the EMI shield.

 And taking a second look at the pictures, it does seem as if all 3 are swappable. But so far only the LM4562 was swapped out by a user quite a few pages ago.

 Now I too am curious as to what these other two do and what would be a better version of them.


----------



## jenneth

The EMI shield shouldn't be a problem, take a look at this photo:

ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review

 Notice how much taller the capacitors right next to OPAMPs are. The S-to-D OPAMP adapter aren't that big:

http://ibeststore.googlepages.com/104pcb-400.jpg


 EDIT: Hm, on second thought, maybe the shield will be a problem...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only swappable opam is the LM4562. 

 And yeah you can't use single opamps unless you wanna go down to mono from stereo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (if you somehow managed to put it in the socket and not fry it, that is)_

 


 That is not correct. There are 3 opamps on the card, 2 JRC 2114D and 1 LM4562NA. All three opamps can be replaced.


----------



## ROBSCIX

As to the function of these three opamps: This setup is a bit different then what has been available on most consumer cards. The PCM 1792 DAC on the STX is a current output DAC, so the first two opamps -2114 are used as a differential input I/V converter(Current to Voltage) section. The last opamp the LM4562 is a single end buffer.


----------



## taso89

I already tried the OPA627 (though not on a big adapter, they are pre-soldered to both sides of the adapter I have) if you had read back a couple of pages. It did nothing but decrease detail and add bass quantity. I think something like LT1364 and other Linear Tech opamps might work well here.


----------



## ADD

I have noticed that one Australian retailer (who has virtually copied the Essence specs straight from the local ASUS distributer website) is indicating that the Essence uses the lower spec Cirrus Logic 5361 ADC rather than the higher spec 5381 used in the earlier full-sized Xonar cards.

 The reviews I have seen on the net show it is the 5381 in the Essence but now I am not so sure. These were all pre-production / engineering cards being pre-viewed or reviewed and not neccessarily the final product. I wonder if ASUS are now trying save a few dollars in production examples?

 I've now held off my order as I don't want to be the first to find out the Essence won't perform an AD conversion as well as my older Xonar.

ASUS Xonar Essence STX - 7.1 Channel, 124dB SNR, PCI-Ex1 (100792) | Techbuy Australia

 If anyone reading this bought one from from a retailer in Australia I would be very interested to know what the ADC chip is.


----------



## jenneth

Pic 9

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed that one Australian retailer (who has virtually copied the Essence specs straight from the local ASUS distributer website) is indicating that the Essence uses the lower spec Cirrus Logic 5361 ADC rather than the higher spec 5381 used in the earlier full-sized Xonar cards._

 

EDIT: on second look, it looks like it has a 5381.


----------



## ADD

I saw that photo about a week ago and just assumed it said 5381. Now you've looked at it and think it says 5361. Now I look at it again and I have no idea!


----------



## igor_f

Just installed STX Essence, and had one big disappointment with drivers...
 interface way worser then X-Fi, and stability really bad. 
 Had a bunch of BSOD on WinXP, most of them when was trying to mount .iso image with "Daemon tool"... any one has experience to use Daemon and success with mounting 4_GB images?


----------



## audionewbieyao

Weird.. it never happened in my system like that, and I think the UI is straitforward to use and easier than that of Creative....

 Anyways, UI is subjective, and it might be your systems' issues too, mind letting us know what's your system configuration? maybe we can help...


----------



## oqvist

how would you define the sound from the Xonar? warm sound? Cold etc?


----------



## fzman

warm -- but very natural sounding, lush, seductive, and musical (or are those all just synonyms of each other?). it is a little lacking in dynamics and sparkle in its stock config, but improves with an outboard linear psu and swapping the op amps.

 it is well worth the money for two channel listening-- not sure abiout games or anything else-- don;t care either!

 kust my 2 cents


----------



## sluggoaudio

Well, according to the box, all 3 op amps are replaceable to "tune up your unique sound". In any event, single and dual op amps have entirely different pin outs and there's no way putting a single in a dual socket is going to pass any usable signal (stereo or mono). In some cases (a 5534 for example) you will blow up the chip. Back to the matter at hand: what are the 3 chips actually doing? One is probably the current to voltage converter for the D to A, and at least one is driving the RCA outputs (left and right). I may have to break out a magnifying glass and figure out what's really going on here. Also, I'm on day two of waiting for that driver download (the servers are still "busy").


----------



## yehuda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw that photo about a week ago and just assumed it said 5381. Now you've looked at it and think it says 5361. Now I look at it again and I have no idea!_

 

I bought in Canada and it's 5381 here. I don't see a reason it would differ in other regions but you can always call your supplier to make sure. They can check it for you through the plastic window.


----------



## Brando

2 days and still can't download the driver. What


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ADD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw that photo about a week ago and just assumed it said 5381. Now you've looked at it and think it says 5361. Now I look at it again and I have no idea!_

 

This pic shows the ADC to be the 5381. Firingsquad's STX looks to be the retail version and not an engineering sample like what Hardware Canucks had. I'll try to remember to confirm the ADC on my STX when I get home from work tonight.

 @Taso89, FWIW I'm using an LT1361 and found it to provide a noticeable improvement to overall clarity, soundstage depth and dynamics over the LM4562. I tried an LT1364 as well. IIRC it improved the bass and mids but didn't do much else so I went back to the LT1361.

 I too am curious as to what if any sound improvement might be gained by swapping out the other 2 opamps, and what opamps would be good replacements for the 2 2114's. Anybody have any suggestions? I think I'll order 2 more LT1361's for the other sockets in the next few days, and maybe another LT1364 and LME49860 (I already have one of each) to do comparisons. 

 And for those interested in an external power supply for the STX's molex, Coolerguys sells a 24W power brick that might work well. Can't confirm if it's a linear power supply or not tho since my knowledge of them is somewhat limited.


----------



## sluggoaudio

Well, I took a close look at the card, and I'm positive that the 4562 is driving the left and right RCA outputs, and in that application it's a very good choice. The 2114's are a little more obscure: almost all it's connections are running under the chip. My guess is that they are the I to V and anti-aliasing filters for the D to A. The use of the 2114's is baffling here; if I am correct, Burr Brown 2134's would be a much better choice here.


----------



## Bojamijams

so what is driving the headphone out?


----------



## d(((--)))b

Hi

 I used this card with my pioneer hdj1000 and I was very impressed with the sound quality it produced. Sad thing was that my hdj1000s broke recently. so I decided to buy a new pair of cans. After I read the reviews and comments on hd650 I decided to buy them.

 Will the hd650 sound ok on this card? or is it likely that I will need an external amp?


----------



## Bojamijams

Please keep us posted on your findings. I remember you saying you tried th 1364 originally but were kinda impressed / but saw that some peopple might prefer thee 4562 too. It seems now the 1361 is a clear upgrade? 

 If so, I'll wait and see if it's any good for the other two sockets so I can order 3 instead of 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This pic shows the ADC to be the 5381. Firingsquad's STX looks to be the retail version and not an engineering sample like what Hardware Canucks had. I'll try to remember to confirm the ADC on my STX when I get home from work tonight.

 @Taso89, FWIW I'm using an LT1361 and found it to provide a noticeable improvement to overall clarity, soundstage depth and dynamics over the LM4562. I tried an LT1364 as well. IIRC it improved the bass and mids but didn't do much else so I went back to the LT1361.

 I too am curious as to what if any sound improvement might be gained by swapping out the other 2 opamps, and what opamps would be good replacements for the 2 2114's. Anybody have any suggestions? I think I'll order 2 more LT1361's for the other sockets in the next few days, and maybe another LT1364 and LME49860 (I already have one of each) to do comparisons. 

 And for those interested in an external power supply for the STX's molex, Coolerguys sells a 24W power brick that might work well. Can't confirm if it's a linear power supply or not tho since my knowledge of them is somewhat limited._


----------



## riderforever

Is there an online shop selling the LT1361?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please keep us posted on your findings. I remember you saying you tried th 1364 originally but were kinda impressed / but saw that some peopple might prefer thee 4562 too. It seems now the 1361 is a clear upgrade? 

 If so, I'll wait and see if it's any good for the other two sockets so I can order 3 instead of 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, the 1361 is an improvement over the 1364 IMO. They both shared the same bass improvement and soundstage depth increase over the LM4562, but the 1364 doesn't really help out the highs that much. The 1361 however does.

 @ADD, I double-checked my STX and it does indeed have the 5381 ADC.

 @d(((--)))b, the 650's should sound fine with this card. The STX should drive them no problem.

 @riderforever, you can buy the LT1361 online from Digikey here.


----------



## Stimpy_7

Hi everyone,

 First post in the forum but have been lurking for a fair few months! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm extremely interested in this product but i have one question that i need answering before I take the plunge.

 I'm currently using a creative X-FI Platinum on my PC, although i mainly use it for 2 channel music (this is my priority) I also dabble in music creation, most notably using guitar rig 3, pluging my guitar directly into the front panel.

 I was just wondering if i will suffer any latency issues moving to this card? will asio be effected in anyway and can i continue to use my guitar in this way?

 Obviously the line in at the back is a 1/4 jack, which is the same as a standard guitar lead. 

 I've had a good read about but i can't seem to find anything related.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 Adam


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the 1361 is an improvement over the 1364 IMO. They both shared the same bass improvement and soundstage depth increase over the LM4562, but the 1364 doesn't really help out the highs that much. The 1361 however does._

 

Excellent news! Thanks for trying it =D

 Just placed my order for it. Will post results here next week when I get back home and can install it.


----------



## DarkScythe

A long shot, but is anyone here able to compare with an Echo Audiofire 2 or similar?

 Kind of newish to this stuff, so I've borrowed one from my friend for now, although I don't really think there's a "massive" difference coming from onboard Realtek ALC889A. I'm using the Aego M's though, and on the off-chance that it might not be good enough to discern the difference between the two sources very well, I've got a pair of Audioengine 5's coming in.

 I was considering the Essence, but I'm starting to doubt it if it's tough for me to tell much of a difference between my onboard and the Audiofire. Maybe I just don't know what to listen for.


----------



## sluggoaudio

The TI 6120 drives the headphones directly (through the relay). Here's the datasheet: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf

 Going by the application note on page 1, the 2114's are indeed the current to voltage converters and filters for the D to A. (the parts count around the 2114's is correct; they use a single quad opamp, but its the same as the 2134's I suggested earlier).
 As for those Linear chips you guys are using: I'd be careful using ultra wide bandwidth amps here: you run the risk of having these things oscillate at very high frequencies. You really should have a wideband scope and some square wave files to check their stability when you swap them in. My 2 cents.
 .


----------



## Bojamijams

Hmm well I appreciate your input. Always nice to have people with great technical knowledge share their input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any particular opamp you'd suggest trying instead of the LM4562?


----------



## sluggoaudio

Honestly, the 4562 is a fine chip: the bottleneck is with the 2114's, why Asus chose them is a mystery; for all the money they wasted with the posters and fake individual performance reports, they could have dropped the extra 2 bucks and put in 2134's.
 One other thing: replacing the 4562 will not improve the headphone output; it has nothing to do with that part of the circuit. I'm not sure anyone has actually made this claim (this a BIG thread).
 So, has anyone been able to download the new driver yet?


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sluggoaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, the 4562 is a fine chip: the bottleneck is with the 2114's, why Asus chose them is a mystery; for all the money they wasted with the posters and fake individual performance reports, they could have dropped the extra 2 bucks and put in 2134's._

 

So, is it possible for us to take out the 2114 for the 2134?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sluggoaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, the 4562 is a fine chip: the bottleneck is with the 2114's, why Asus chose them is a mystery; for all the money they wasted with the posters and fake individual performance reports, they could have dropped the extra 2 bucks and put in 2134's.
 One other thing: replacing the 4562 will not improve the headphone output; it has nothing to do with that part of the circuit. I'm not sure anyone has actually made this claim (this a BIG thread).
 So, has anyone been able to download the new driver yet?_

 

as long as it improves the RCA-out i'm happy, since that's what i'll be using (to achieve the 124db SNR spec). it'll be feeding into my M^3 so amping isn't my concern.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sluggoaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One other thing: replacing the 4562 will not improve the headphone output; it has nothing to do with that part of the circuit. I'm not sure anyone has actually made this claim (this a BIG thread)._

 

Finally my question has got an answer. Thanks for your post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 BTW, do you think the 2134 is the best replacement for the 2114? And what about going for a discrete opamp instead of the 4562?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sluggoaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, has anyone been able to download the new driver yet?_

 

No way, servers are busy all the time


----------



## Bojamijams

You're not going to be able to fit a discrete on there AND be able to use the EMI shield. You might not even have the clearance from your other computer mobo devices. And even if you had room and didn't want the EMI shield, I'm not sure it would stay plugged in with all that weight hanging upside down (unless you have a reverse ATX case)


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Sluggoaudio, I already stated a few pages back the 2114D's are used as a differential input I/V section and the LM4562 is a single end buffer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can get extension wires for the discrete opamps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_as long as it improves the RCA-out i'm happy, since that's what i'll be using (to achieve the 124db SNR spec). it'll be feeding into my M^3 so amping isn't my concern._

 

All three opamp affects the RCA outputs. This is where you get the 124dB SNR from, Those are measured values not spec...the spec value is about 127dB.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All three opamp affects the RCA outputs. This is where you get the 124dB SNR from, Those are measured values not spec...the spec value is about 127dB._

 

yea that's what i thought. thanks for confirming it.


----------



## DarkRegion

I am going to get the new Sennheiser HD 800's would the Xonar Essence be a sufficient source for it? 
 I already own a Xonar essence I hope it will be good enough for the HD 800's.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkRegion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going to get the new Sennheiser HD 800's would the Xonar Essence be a sufficient source for it? 
 I already own a Xonar essence I hope it will be good enough for the HD 800's._

 

i don't care how good everyone thinks the STX is. there's no way i'd pair it with possibly the best dynamic headphones in existence. there are better sources and much better amps out there that would do the HD800 more justice.


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i don't care how good everyone thinks the STX is. there's no way i'd pair it with possibly the best dynamic headphones in existence. there are better sources and much better amps out there that would do the HD800 more justice._

 

So it would be a waste to get the HD 800's to use with the xonar essence?

 Are there other sources that are better that can still upmix to virtual 7.1?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkRegion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it would be a waste to get the HD 800's to use with the xonar essence?

 Are there other sources that are better that can still upmix to virtual 7.1?_

 

not a waste. but if there's any headphone that would benefit from a better source/amp, it would likely be the HD800. $1400 headphone with a $200 soundcard...price isn't the best indicator of value but that's just pushing it.


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not a waste. but if there's any headphone that would benefit from a better source/amp, it would likely be the HD800. $1400 headphone with a $200 soundcard...price isn't the best indicator of value but that's just pushing it._

 

Hmm would the D7000's be a better pair with the Essence?


----------



## scytheavatar

I like how people are commenting on the HD800 without even laying their hands on it.


----------



## ttol

btw, if anyone has been paying attention to what's going on with Asus's driver page.. it's pretty funny.

 The current drivers are so buggy that they bluescreen when you try to run dxdiag and crash several games immediately on launch. Asus claims that they have already released drivers that fixes the issue.

 The drivers were "released" on the 23rd, on 24th when no one still could actually download the new drivers, one of the driver devs posted that they have uploaded the drivers and they would be available in "few" hours once their servers "sync". Fastforward a week and the driver dev has quietly stopped posting on the forums and we still don't have any download links that work.

 Now I freely admit that my earlier post was rather exaggerated but there's no way around the fact that Asus driver support is so pathetic that it makes Creative look like a dream come true..

 Edit: I should add that if you don't care about gaming then this is no doubt a brilliant card. I have absolutely nothing to complain when it comes to sound quality, both digital and analog output have been outstanding.


----------



## Stimpy_7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stimpy_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone,

 First post in the forum but have been lurking for a fair few months! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm extremely interested in this product but i have one question that i need answering before I take the plunge.

 I'm currently using a creative X-FI Platinum on my PC, although i mainly use it for 2 channel music (this is my priority) I also dabble in music creation, most notably using guitar rig 3, pluging my guitar directly into the front panel.

 I was just wondering if i will suffer any latency issues moving to this card? will asio be effected in anyway and can i continue to use my guitar in this way?

 Obviously the line in at the back is a 1/4 jack, which is the same as a standard guitar lead. 

 I've had a good read about but i can't seem to find anything related.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 Adam_

 

Anyone?

 Cheers


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ADD, I double-checked my STX and it does indeed have the 5381 ADC._

 


 Very much appreciated. Now I can be confident that the ADC quality of the Essence will be at least as good as my current original PCI Xonar - most likely better given the power and component improvements.

 I now have it on order again and look forward to saying goodbye to my last computer PCI card for good.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stimpy_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone,

 First post in the forum but have been lurking for a fair few months! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm extremely interested in this product but i have one question that i need answering before I take the plunge.

 I'm currently using a creative X-FI Platinum on my PC, although i mainly use it for 2 channel music (this is my priority) I also dabble in music creation, most notably using guitar rig 3, pluging my guitar directly into the front panel.

 I was just wondering if i will suffer any latency issues moving to this card? will asio be effected in anyway and can i continue to use my guitar in this way?

 Obviously the line in at the back is a 1/4 jack, which is the same as a standard guitar lead. 

 I've had a good read about but i can't seem to find anything related.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 Adam_

 

Well the STX's drivers support ASIO 2.0, so I would say probably no.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stimpy_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone,

 First post in the forum but have been lurking for a fair few months! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm extremely interested in this product but i have one question that i need answering before I take the plunge.

 I'm currently using a creative X-FI Platinum on my PC, although i mainly use it for 2 channel music (this is my priority) I also dabble in music creation, most notably using guitar rig 3, pluging my guitar directly into the front panel.

 I was just wondering if i will suffer any latency issues moving to this card? will asio be effected in anyway and can i continue to use my guitar in this way?

 Obviously the line in at the back is a 1/4 jack, which is the same as a standard guitar lead. 

 I've had a good read about but i can't seem to find anything related.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 Adam_

 

The jacks on the back on the Essence STX are 1/4" yes, but they are not made for a guitar input. The Input on this card is Line-In and a Mic-in. I wouldn't connect a guitar to it. The card has not been made for that.
 I use guitar Rig all the time but I don't use the STX for input...


----------



## draven5494

For those of you who are having issues with the Essence and gaming, I installed Vista and the current Essence Vista drivers and have had no problems. WOW works fine, with no sound issues. 

 I know this isn't a solution and ASUS should fix their drivers, but I just wanted to throw it out there that my Essence card and Vista seem to work much better together when it comes to gaming.... I know, who would have thought!


----------



## Bojamijams

I have to add, though not much help to those suffering, with my vista x64 its also super smooth.. its just some hardware config in your system is messing **** up and essence isn't handling the best

 I know because I had to flash my bios to remove the old auzentech prelude that was in the pci slot cause it was taking up the memory for the pci-e STX. 

 But.. after that.. smooth sailing


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know because I had to flash my bios to remove the old auzentech prelude that was in the pci slot cause it was taking up the memory for the pci-e STX._

 

That doesn't make any sense to me. Did you first try resetting the PCI configuration in CMOS setup?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That doesn't make any sense to me. Did you first try resetting the PCI configuration in CMOS setup?_

 

Yes I fully agree that it shouldn't have been necessary, but it was. Maybe its a vista file, maybe nvidia chipset driver fail, I dunno. I hate both equally. Nevertheless..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Guys, I figure many of you here may be interested in some new information about the upcoming Xonar Essence STX card. Have a look: HERE

 HWC actually has a engineering sample of the card and we will be looking it over with a magnifying glass and testing it fully to see what it has to offer the headphone and audio communities. Do we have any opinions, suggestions or comments on this card?_

 

Hi Rob,
 I posted something about a Compass DAC in another ASUS related thread. You sent me a PM, I couldn't answer because your PM Box is full!! 

 Take out the Trash!


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been doing some testing with various opamps will report some findings when I am done.


----------



## NGX

Hey folks. I have an odd question.

 I bought this card along with a pair HD650s. The headphones support +300 impedance so I made the settings in the software but it was just too loud. I have the sound level at maximum 10-15%, or around 5% with 300 impedance when I want the extra kick. It's still pretty loud and it's getting ridiculous to lower the volume to 1 or 2%. Is it possible to lower the entire output volume, to have more freedom with the volume adjuster? The volume is at around 5% in the Xonar software, so you have a bit of elbow room in there, but Windows' own volume control (the vertical bar you have a shortcut to next to the clock, bottom right of the screen) is at the absolute minimum, and adjusting it just a tiny little bit results in a big difference. I just want to cut out the last 50% of the volume. Or half the dB amount.

 I have Dolby Headphone and 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter enabled. Adds some life to the sound as it otherwise feels a bit static, in my opinion.

 I have the sample rate at 192 KHz. What exactly is the advantage of that instead of 44?

 Hehe. Alright I just discovered the mixer settings... they don't call me Columbus for nothing.


----------



## Bojamijams

Just change you gain setting to medium.. that'll lower your voltage output and thus the volume. I found their gain settings to be really conservative. So I'd say trying to medium gain option with the 650's.


----------



## oqvist

How do this stack up to the Elite PRO or Prelude? I ain´t using it´s amplifier so with that ruled out?

 It supports dolby encoding which is important for me. Does it have dual outputs one optical and one coaxial? I need to run coaxial to my speakers and then optical from my PS 3 to the Xonar. Or can the Xonar just output digital signals?
 Reason for this is that I need to run my PS 3 through my Elite PRO to give feedback to my buttkicker LFE.

 Maybe someone here have tried this but with a subwoofer may be more common


----------



## ROBSCIX

The digital is a combo port, Coaxial and optical with a adapter. You get surround out of the digital outputs using Dolby Digital Live. To Note, there is also an internal S/Pdif output most likley for use with HDMI GFX card where you can connect up S/PDIF.

 The Essence has:
 Digital out -coax/optical
 Headphone amplifier out
 RCA-stereo out
 Internal S/Pdif out.

 I guess if you were good with electronics you could wire up the internal S/Pdif to an external bracket essetially giving you two digital outs.


----------



## oqvist

so no spdif/in and you can´t simultaneously run coaxial and optical? Well I am greatful it rules this out then.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been doing some testing with various opamps will report some findings when I am done._

 

looking forward to this. can you tell us which opamps for the time being?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, I have been trying out some commonly known/used audio opamps. 

 A. BB OPA2134
 B. BB OPA2227
 C. BB OPA2107

 I have other but these are the ones I have been playing with and listening to right now.
 I have also been talking with some experts and making a new list of units I personally want to test with this card.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, I have been trying out some commonly known/used audio opamps. 

 A. BB OPA2134
 B. BB OPA2227
 C. BB OPA2107

 I have other but these are the ones I have been playing with and listening to right now.
 I have also been talking with some experts and making a new list of units I personally want to test with this card._

 

Sweet! I've been eyeing all three of those. Looking forward to hearing your impressions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Other ones I've read good things about in other applications are:

 OPA2111
 OPA2604
 AD712
 AD746
 AD8599*
 AD8022*

 *These don't come in 8-DIP so an SOIC -> 8-DIP adapter is req'd.

 I'll probably pick up a couple of these to try out. They're certainly cheap enough. All of them are <$10 except the 2111 which is ~$13. 

 I'm afraid my technical knowledge is rather limited, though. Does anyone know if I'd run into any issues using any of these?


----------



## Shahrose

i know the AD8610/AD8620BR are touted as being superior to the LM4562, i'm wondering if anyone can test them as well.


----------



## BigTrouble

IMO, all audio components related to each other, sometimes it's not exactly better OPs sounded better, cheaper stuff which co-works with other parts well can beat expensive stuff at times.


----------



## Stimpy_7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The jacks on the back on the Essence STX are 1/4" yes, but they are not made for a guitar input. The Input on this card is Line-In and a Mic-in. I wouldn't connect a guitar to it. The card has not been made for that.
 I use guitar Rig all the time but I don't use the STX for input..._

 

Sorry for the delay in replying back, been away!

 Thank you for the comments.

 Would a guitar input be any different to that of a mic? I'm not really sure what difference it would make... could it damage it then?

 What do you use to connect your guitar to your computer Robscix?

 I really want better sound but the x-fi front panel is so convenient!


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stimpy_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the delay in replying back, been away!

 Thank you for the comments.

 Would a guitar input be any different to that of a mic? I'm not really sure what difference it would make... could it damage it then?

 What do you use to connect your guitar to your computer Robscix?

 I really want better sound but the x-fi front panel is so convenient!_

 

You can also connect Essence STX to your mobo's front panel, and the output of a guitar is waaaaaay lower then normal line in (unless it's an acoustic with amp, or you use nasty EMG pickups). You can consider the output as low as a passive mic (no battery).

 In this case you may want to select the input mode as mic, still, this baby is made for listening, just like Line6 is made for guitar recording, and X-Fi is made for...uh... can't think of.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stimpy_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the delay in replying back, been away!

 Thank you for the comments.

 Would a guitar input be any different to that of a mic? I'm not really sure what difference it would make... could it damage it then?

 What do you use to connect your guitar to your computer Robscix?

 I really want better sound but the x-fi front panel is so convenient!_

 

A guitar input on a device is high imedance and I doubt a Mic input would work properly and if anything, would not give you very good sound at all.
 It would be best to get the right tool for the job. You can find guitar interfaces for USB very cheap.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTrouble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, all audio components related to each other, sometimes it's not exactly better OPs sounded better, cheaper stuff which co-works with other parts well can beat expensive stuff at times._

 

Yes, very true. I haven't been just plugging in any old opamps I have laying around. I have been reading over spec sheets and looking for improvements to the units used on the card. Your also right that many times a better spec'd opamp might sound worse and a lower spec opamp might have that sound your looking for. It really depends on many factors...


----------



## Bojamijams

Which is why I'm awaiting the results of your testing with anticipation.

 Btw Robscix, does changing the LM4562 opamp affect the SQ of the headphone out or only the RCA outs?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is why I'm awaiting the results of your testing with anticipation.

 Btw Robscix, does changing the LM4562 opamp affect the SQ of the headphone out or only the RCA outs?_

 

The way I understand it is the LM4562NA affect the RCA's only. When you switch to headphones the relays snap the LM4562 out of the circuit and put the headphone amplifier chip into the circuit. Changing the 2114D's affect both headphones and RCA's out.


----------



## Bojamijams

So those would be the ones to also shoot for, especially since the HP amplifier isn't swappable


----------



## Shahrose

that's interesting ROBSCIX. i would really like for someone to try the Burson discrete opamps in place of the LM4562. that's the setup i'm planning to get.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Sharose
 I don't have any discrete opamp units YET. Althoguh I have been considering getting them to test out.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's interesting ROBSCIX. i would really like for someone to try the Burson discrete opamps in place of the LM4562. that's the setup i'm planning to get._

 

Me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, would there be any side effect in connecting a power amp directly to the RCAs of the essence?


----------



## Reputator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So those would be the ones to also shoot for, especially since the HP amplifier isn't swappable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah I'm definitely interested in seeing what replacing the 2114D opamps does.


----------



## draven5494

Is there any news on the new driver for the Essence?

 The driver download link still goes nowhere on the ASUS site...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, would there be any side effect in connecting a power amp directly to the RCAs of the essence?_

 

no, there would not. in fact, that's what i'm planning to do.


----------



## Brando

The driver update on Asus' works as of about an hour or 2 ago. It works.


----------



## NGX

There was a broken link on their site to begin with, but somebody found a way to download the file. It seems to back down again. Keep checking...

 I have another odd question. I hate to interrupt this technical discussion, but I notice a lot of noise, which I could describe as hissing in lack of a better description, on pretty much all my 128kbps MP3 files. I would've thought that kind of impurities with the recordings would be tamed by this fancy audio card, either with its DAC or something. I couldn't really notice them with my on-board audio and cheap speakers or headphones. I was reading reviews describing the HD650s letting you hear instruments or small sounds you wouldn't notice otherwise, and with this audio card with even a headphone amp, doesn't blow my mind as I thought 250$ equipment would. In Norway we have a saying "it cost more than it tasted" and that certainly would be the case here.


----------



## Bojamijams

128kbps mp3 files are utter crap though. The noise is induced into the recording due to the compression. Try listening to an audio CD or FLAC or WAV files and see if the noise is still there. 

 Even a $250000 sound card can't fix a crappy source. The chain from source to dac to amp to headphones is only as strong as the weakest link. And a 128kbps mp3 is a VERY weak link.


----------



## NGX

Thanks for the reply.

 The sound is clean and pretty good when I play Flac files or audio CDs. The problem is that this sound card emphasizes those impurities, instead of camouflaging them. It's like I get a little better sound on my high-quality files, while my previously-just-fine files are now basically worthless.

 And it's a rather large collection of 128kbps files and many of albums that are hard to come by again, let alone in 320kbps (audio CD equivalent?) or Flac quality.

 Another thing is that when a sound suddenly plays, like when you click in to folders in Windows, there's a hiccup of some sort at the beginning.


----------



## Fafner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NGX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply.

 The sound is clean and pretty good when I play Flac files or audio CDs. The problem is that this sound card emphasizes those impurities, instead of camouflaging them. It's like I get a little better sound on my high-quality files, while my previously-just-fine files are now basically worthless._

 


 I can confirm that. Badly encoded files sound far worse than they sounded with my Elite Pro, but that's just what I expected when I ordered this card. My Marantz SACD player sounds ugly when playing audio copied to a cd starting from mp3s. It just isn't its purpose to play such stuff. The real difference comes when playing cds, dvds or perfectly (losless?) encoded files...there, sound quality is much better than on the Creative to my ears.

 If u're expecting the STX to make your 128kb MP3s sound divine, forget about it. This card isn't made for that purpose. But that's the same with every high end audio component.


----------



## Bojamijams

That is an issue with most hi-fi equipment. It has better emphasis and resolution. Thus is better emphasizes the qualities of the recordings. If they're good, you get better. If they're bad, you get worse. 

 The only true "cd-audio" equivalent is lossless audio (though a few will argue that any compression, even lossless, means its not the same)

 As far as I know though, there is no quick fix for you. You're just going to have to try and find the better collection. Used CD stores are a gold mine now as everyone thinks that 128kbps is plenty for them and are trading in their CDs. 

 And amazon sells 256kbps MP3's for a LOT of albums so you should be able to upgrade some select works relatively quickly and relatively cheap too. 

 Well the quick fix I guess would be to just change the output to direct sound linked to the onboard audio and plug in the cheap speakers/headphones and use them for the low bitrate mp3s


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The driver update on Asus' works as of about an hour or 2 ago. It works._

 

Thanks, I was able to finally download it earlier. It wasn't working yesterday, the link seems to be up and down. 

 As for 128kbps MP3s, get rid of em. The Essence is a step-up in PC sound cards So, you really need to get higher bit-rate MP3s or lossless FLAC files, which sound great on this card BTW. The Essence and a good set of cans will bring every bit of detail out of the music, good or bad.


----------



## NGX

Still. I think the audio recording technology identifies monotone sounds as unwanted background noise and deletes them, so I was expecting something similar on playback with this high-end card from Asus.

 If I may just ask for an answer to my other questions up there, and curiously inquire into the difference between 44khz and 192khz options you have in this Xonar software, I'll be out of your way soon


----------



## ROBSCIX

You want your soundcard to give you a accurate representation of what is there. The card doesn't emphasis these bad qualities of the lowbitrate MP3, the card just doesn't mask them. That is a good thing.

 Just move away from the MP3 altogether or atleast move up to a higher bit-rate or use VBR. The STX is capable of spectacular sound but it can only give you what you have at the source file. You can use enhancers or teqnques to try and make them sound better but in the end it is a lost cause.
 With a good soundcard you need good source files again this is a good thing that this card allows you to hear the negative qualities these lower bit rate files have. This also means this card will allow you to hear all the positive aspects of FLAC or higher bit rate audio.


----------



## Bojamijams

Technically, it upsamples the data to give a smoother sine-wave reproduction from the original digital signal. Whether or not you can hear it though, will depend greatly on how well your ear is trained, how good your headphones and interconnects are, and of course, the quality of the original record. But, there should definetly be a difference between 44khz and 96khz


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fafner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can confirm that. Badly encoded files sound far worse than they sounded with my Elite Pro, but that's just what I expected when I ordered this card. My Marantz SACD player sounds ugly when playing audio copied to a cd starting from mp3s._

 

Have you ever done a side by side comparison of your Marantz and the Essence? I know they play in a really different league, but it would be nice to know if the extra money of the Marantz is really worth it.


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want your soundcard to give you a accurate representation of what is there. The card doesn't emphasis these bad qualities of the lowbitrate MP3, the card just doesn't mask them. That is a good thing._

 

I agree with Rob here, we all know if you upgrade your headphones to a nice 650 and stick with crappy source (such as Audigy...), you feel you've been ripped off.

 In that case, it's completely normal that if you upgrade your source to Essence STX and stick with mp3, you feel you've been ripped off, too.

 On the other hand, crappy soundcards can't let you enjoy all the goodies of high quality content - 44.1 and 192 sounded the same. Though you may find all 128kb stuff not what they used to be, keep in mide that STX is opening a new world of "for real" stuff in front of you.


----------



## draven5494

I was playing around with the Essence software last night and there is something I noticed. 

 When plugged into the 1/4" jack on the Essence, I choose "Headphone" on the Analog Output menu. This gives me the options of Dolby Headphone, Dolby Pro Logic II and 7.1 Virtual Speaker. All of which, when selected, really degrade the sound quality of the source material. Be it music or gaming or whatever. I just do not like the sound that comes from those options.

 So, I thought, let me try plugging my headphones into the front audio connectors using the RCA splitter cable. So, I did that and chose "2 Speakers" from the Analog Output menu. When doing that, I get the option of either Dolby Virtual Speaker as well as 7.1 Virtual Speaker. When selecting those options, the sound quality sounds much better than the headphone options I listed in the first paragraph. I mean, the Dolby Virtual Speaker sounds good! It gives you that 'out of head' feeling without destroying the sound quality.

 Unfortunately, the front panel connectors through the RCA splitter are not amped. Why would ASUS not include these options in their SW when selecting 'headphone' on the analog output? I would think there would be a way to rig the software to allow these options to show up when using the headphone output. Since I am not all that savvy with changing .dat files and whatnot, I just can't figure out where to change this. 

 Has anyone here noticed this sound quality difference?


----------



## Bojamijams

Do you WANT the 'mutli-speaker emulation' on your headphones though? Because, you don't HAVE to use any of those options. You can just turn on the hi-fi option and you get pure sweet sound out of the headphone jack.


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you WANT the 'mutli-speaker emulation' on your headphones though? Because, you don't HAVE to use any of those options. You can just turn on the hi-fi option and you get pure sweet sound out of the headphone jack._

 

And I do use that, for listening to music. It sounds great. For gaming though, I want that extra surround sound feel. Dolby Headphone just stinks for that, it sounds like I am in an oil drum or something. Dolby Virtual Speaker on the other hand gives a surround sound effect but without sacrificing the sound quality much if at all.

 Just try it on your Essence and you will see what I am talking about.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just different settings meant for different tasks. Peoples opinions will vary. I like Dolby Heapdhone for certain tasks aslong as the room simulation isn't overly large so I stick with the reference room. 7.1 virtual speaker is also great but it has been designed for speakers. I say use whatever works for you.


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just different settings meant for different tasks. Peoples opinions will vary. I like Dolby Heapdhone for certain tasks aslong as the room simulation isn't overly large so I stick with the reference room. 7.1 virtual speaker is also great but it has been designed for speakers. I say use whatever works for you._

 

It's the difference between the inputs is what I am talking about. Just try this: using the heaphone output, choose the option for Dolby Headphone and then 7.1 Virtual Speaker, so you have both of them checked. Listen to the sound quality.

 Now, switch your headphone to the speaker connections on the sound card using the RCA splitter. Change the output to 2 Speaker. Now choose the option for Dolby Virtual Speaker and then 7.1 Virtual Speaker. Listen to the difference, there is a distinct difference in the sound quality there. I don't think it has anything to do with the options, I think the Xonar Software headphone options are messed up, they destroy the sound quality compared to the 2 speaker output options.


----------



## Bojamijams

I don't think they 'destroy' sound quality, its just tuned for different mechanisms, and you prefer one over the other. You're saying you like Dolby Virtual Speaker or Dolby Headphone. Different technology, different algorithms, one tuned for headphones, other for speakers.

 I'm not saying there's no bug possibly being present though, best thing would be to post this concern on the ASUS boards and see what they have to say. 

 But I doubt they intentionally 'destroy' the sound quality.


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think they 'destroy' sound quality, its just tuned for different mechanisms, and you prefer one over the other. You're saying you like Dolby Virtual Speaker or Dolby Headphone. Different technology, different algorithms, one tuned for headphones, other for speakers.

 I'm not saying there's no bug possibly being present though, best thing would be to post this concern on the ASUS boards and see what they have to say. 

 But I doubt they intentionally 'destroy' the sound quality._

 

I did post on the ASUS forums, so I will see what they say. I don't think they are intentionally trying to mess up the sound quality, it may be a software bug as you say. It may working as intended, who knows. I just think that all of the options should be available no matter what output you choose. That's why I brought it up, in hopes that someone may be able to modify the software to allow this.

 I just don't know why the 7.1 Virtual Speaker option on "Headphone" output and on "2-Speaker" output sound so differently, when they are supposedly the same.


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *draven5494* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was playing around with the Essence software last night and there is something I noticed. 

 When plugged into the 1/4" jack on the Essence, I choose "Headphone" on the Analog Output menu. This gives me the options of Dolby Headphone, Dolby Pro Logic II and 7.1 Virtual Speaker. All of which, when selected, really degrade the sound quality of the source material. Be it music or gaming or whatever. I just do not like the sound that comes from those options.

 So, I thought, let me try plugging my headphones into the front audio connectors using the RCA splitter cable. So, I did that and chose "2 Speakers" from the Analog Output menu. When doing that, I get the option of either Dolby Virtual Speaker as well as 7.1 Virtual Speaker. When selecting those options, the sound quality sounds much better than the headphone options I listed in the first paragraph. I mean, the Dolby Virtual Speaker sounds good! It gives you that 'out of head' feeling without destroying the sound quality.

 Unfortunately, the front panel connectors through the RCA splitter are not amped. Why would ASUS not include these options in their SW when selecting 'headphone' on the analog output? I would think there would be a way to rig the software to allow these options to show up when using the headphone output. Since I am not all that savvy with changing .dat files and whatnot, I just can't figure out where to change this. 

 Has anyone here noticed this sound quality difference?_

 

I assume you have your audio channels set to 2 then. Try setting your Channles to 8. You will notice Pro logic IIx goes away and only 7.1 Speaker shifter and dolby headphone remain. 

 Also when gamming set your channles to 7.1 in your games. 

 I find Pro Logic IIx is the problem. It Has a dampend sound. Kinda like an oil drum like how you described.

 You can also try to set the channels based on the app your using. Music 2 channles just with no Pro Logic eveything else on. 2 channles for music with 7.1 shifter is slightly fuller sound compair to 8 channels.

 For Games set to 8 channels, which will disable the pro logic anyway.


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkRegion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you have your audio channels set to 2 then. Try setting your Channles to 8. You will notice Pro logic IIx goes away and only 7.1 Speaker shifter and dolby headphone remain. 

 Also when gamming set your channles to 7.1 in your games. 

 I find Pro Logic IIx is the problem. It Has a dampend sound. Kinda like an oil drum like how you described.

 You can also try to set the channels based on the app your using. Music 2 channles just with no Pro Logic eveything else on. 2 channles for music with 7.1 shifter is slightly fuller sound compair to 8 channels.

 Games use 8 channels, which will disable the pro logic anyway._

 


 I have tried that, and those options are only available in Vista. I use both Vista 64 and XP 64, mainly XP 64. It's not the # of channels that are causing the issue, it's the options available for the different outputs you select them in the Xonar software, mainly Dolby Headphone. 

 I have another question, is the 1/4" headphone jack on the soundcard the only port that is amped?


----------



## Bojamijams

Yeah the 1/4" is the only amped one.


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *draven5494* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried that, and those options are only available in Vista. I use both Vista 64 and XP 64, mainly XP 64. It's not the # of channels that are causing the issue, it's the options available for the different outputs you select them in the Xonar software, mainly Dolby Headphone. 

 I have another question, is the 1/4" headphone jack on the soundcard the only port that is amped?_

 

So you have tried to use the 7.1 Speaker shifter in combo with Dolby headphones, and have the Pro Logic IIx unchecked?

 Can you disable the Pro Logic IIx in XP?

 Dose it sound better with the settings Listed aboved with Vista?

 Yes Headphone jack is the only one that is amped.


----------



## draven5494

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkRegion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you have tried to use the 7.1 Speaker shifter in combo with Dolby headphones, and have the Pro Logic IIx unchecked?

 Can you disable the Pro Logic IIx in XP?

 Dose it sound better with the settings Listed aboved with Vista?

 Yes Headphone jack is the only one that is amped._

 

Honestly, all of those options sound bad to me when using the headphone output. When using the RCA splitter on the card and choosing that option in the software, I choose either Dolby Virtual Speaker or 7.1 Virtual Sound. Either one of those sound great.

 It is hard for me to describe, that is why I invite you guys to try it on your cards to hear the difference.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *draven5494* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, all of those options sound bad to me when using the headphone output. When using the RCA splitter on the card and choosing that option in the software, I choose either Dolby Virtual Speaker or 7.1 Virtual Sound. Either one of those sound great.

 It is hard for me to describe, that is why I invite you guys to try it on your cards to hear the difference._

 

Will do. I'm sure I got a spare RCA to RCA somewhere....


----------



## chinesekiwi

Having A/B'ed the headphone out and the 2 speaker option, well, I have to say the most noticeable thing off the bat is the output in terms of power. It sounds louder with the knob at the same position of the headphone amp than with the headphone out.

 The treble sounds crisper, more detail and more extension. Bass is about the same quality imo. It brings out the mids more as well although the most noticeable improvement is in the treble.
 The swap doesn't make my DT880's mids sound recessed that much at all.

 I'm using a TV composite cable lols. I couldn't find my RCA to RCA so it'll do and does the job fine. (Using the sound parts of the cable and not using the visual cable).

 The reason for the difference is the opamps used IMO.

 LM4562 in the speaker output vs. OPA2114 for the headphone out.

 Big ups for the tip.


----------



## Bojamijams

the 'opamp' for the headphone out is the TI one.. I forget which, but its TI.. the opa2114 is for i/v


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *draven5494* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, all of those options sound bad to me when using the headphone output. When using the RCA splitter on the card and choosing that option in the software, I choose either Dolby Virtual Speaker or 7.1 Virtual Sound. Either one of those sound great.

 It is hard for me to describe, that is why I invite you guys to try it on your cards to hear the difference._

 

Just got done testing this. Yes it dose sound different.

 After testing with some music nightwish, Epica. It's a but more punch. And a somewhat different sound image. Music sounds fine using the RCA out.

 After Testing Gamming with Crysis, I find that its sounds more different. Its worse with Dolby virtual speaker. Using just Virtual speaker shifter however SQ is fine. Also by using Dolby virtual speakers your are limited to 5.1 even with the 7.1 shifter enabled. If you use you speaker shifter and move the 2 rear speakers around they have no sound.

 Why is it worse? Mostly postioning is off, creates a bit of confusion. The distance of people's foot steps and when they speak, gun sounds and even when you are driving is less accurate when compaired to dolby headphone/7.1 shifter. The quality of the sound is better overall using headphone jack for gamming. 

 I use 7.1 shifter in combo with dolby headphone while using headphone jack. I don't like just using dolby headphone by itself.
 When using Dolby headphone with the 7.1 shifter you get sound out of all the virtual speakers.

 Why I think it sounds different: 
 Well the approach to create a virtual surround image is different for speakers vs headphones. 

 When you use your headphones they are pointing directly at your ears.

 When you use speakers they are mostly in front of you. 

 Because of this they have to project the sound differently to obtain a surround effect.


----------



## DarkRegion

Another thing to check for:

 Make sure under the Effect tab that you dont have any of the Enviromental effects on. 

 Make sure they are all grey and not highlighted blue.

 The (More) button should also be grey and not highlighted blue.


----------



## taso89

An easier way is to just press the Hi-Fi button; this automatically disables EQ and any other effects to give you pure bit-perfect playback.


----------



## bhaskie

Does anyone know how the headphone amp in the Xonar Essence gets the -12V? Since the opamp circuit requires a dual-polarity power supply and the pci-express only has +12V, does it use a negative voltage generator to generate the -12V in some way?

_The Headphone Amplifier used in this card is Texas Instruments 6120A2 (120dB SNR, 100dB THD+N @ *Vcc±12V*, RL=600Ω, f=1kHz)
_

 Thanks,
 Bhaskie


----------



## d(((--)))b

It uses molex connector from your power supply... With out that it w ould not work at all.


----------



## bhaskie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It uses molex connector from your power supply... With out that it w ould not work at all._

 

You didn't get my question.
 The essence draws a 12 volt line from the pci-e and a 5V line from the molex connector (+12V --> 0.15A, +5V --> 0.68A). And the PCI-Express gives only +12V, not -12V. 

 Thanks,
 Bhaskie


----------



## draven5494

Thanks for checking it out! I'm glad I'm not crazy. 

 I am speaking with ASUS to make all of the Dolby options available no matter what output you choose in the software. That way we can have the option to choose and still be able to use the amped headphone port.


----------



## chinesekiwi

So my current settings are:

 Asus Essence STX linked via RCA-to-RCA cable --> amp --> headphones.
 Analog Out set to '2 Speakers'
 Using the 'Dolby 7.1 Speaker' feature.
 Dunno why it's so different sonically from the headphone out tbh.
 I read up earlier on this thread that the OPA2114 opamps were for the headphone-out and the main, better, LM4562 opamp was for the main front out.
 Could be wrong though but that's what I read.
 Might also explain the difference in SNR as well (117 dB for the headphone out vs. 124 dB for the analog out).


----------



## ROBSCIX

The 2114's are a I/V converter for both speaker outs and Headphone out.
 The LM4562 is used for the Speaker outs as a final buffer stage.

 The SNR difference would be as a result of the different stages as was mentioned above.


----------



## sluggoaudio

Here's an update: the new driver (xp) downloads and installs fine. It took a few extra restarts to get the icon to "stick" in the notification area by the clock.
 I swapped the 2114's for OPA2134's and everything sounds really nice. My impression is that the bottom end is "chunkier" (a good thing) than previously, but it's really impossible to be sure without 2 rigs side by side. However, the opamp swap doesn't hurt anything, so you all can proceed safely with your own experiments. 
 Also the difference in SNR between the 2 sets of outputs would be due to the higher voltage gain in the headphone circuit. As the gain goes up, the noise floor comes up with it. In any event, the difference is inaudible.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thanks for sharing that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Do the 2114's have to be changed out in pairs? Or can something be gained from having them be different?


----------



## Reputator

Well I got my STX card. Initial experimentation seems to show that higher gain + lower volume gives better results than lower gain and higher volume. This seems counter-intuitive to what I've always been told, in that lowering the volume digitally obscures digital information in the sound, and shouldn't sound as good as higher volume. But it definitely sounds cleaner and more fleshed-out the other way around.

 As far as the upgrade from my old card goes, I'm surprised by how small a jump this is. I got my old cheapo Audigy 2 Value to sound damn good with software tweaks, and while this card definitely has cleaner highs, and better lowend control, I didn't get the wow-factor I was hoping for going from a ~$50 sound card to this flagship monolith. More listening is required, however.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reputator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I got my STX card. Initial experimentation seems to show that higher gain + lower volume gives better results than lower gain and higher volume. This seems counter-intuitive to what I've always been told, in that lowering the volume digitally obscures digital information in the sound, and shouldn't sound as good as higher volume. But it definitely sounds cleaner and more fleshed-out the other way around.

 As far as the upgrade from my old card goes, I'm surprised by how small a jump this is. I got my old cheapo Audigy 2 Value to sound damn good with software tweaks, and while this card definitely has cleaner highs, and better lowend control, I didn't get the wow-factor I was hoping for going from a ~$50 sound card to this flagship monolith. More listening is required, however._

 

interesting. the move from the Audigy 4 (same as Audigy 2 really) to the X-Fi to the Prelude was noticeable and from the Prelude to the Claro Plus+ even moreso. i don't know how you can miss the difference from the Audigy 2 to the Essence. maybe you were expecting way too much. OTOH, i would say your amp is also limiting your sound chain.


----------



## Reputator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_interesting. the move from the Audigy 4 (same as Audigy 2 really) to the X-Fi to the Prelude was noticeable and from the Prelude to the Claro Plus+ even moreso. i don't know how you can miss the difference from the Audigy 2 to the Essence. maybe you were expecting way too much. OTOH, i would say your amp is also limiting your sound chain._

 

It's not that I miss the differences, it's just that they were smaller than I expected.

 It should be noted I no longer use that amp since going to this card. I tried RCA out > Porta Corda MkIII but it didn't sound as good as the built-in amp.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for sharing that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do the 2114's have to be changed out in pairs? Or can something be gained from having them be different?_

 

Change the 2114's in a pair.


----------



## Dionysus

Hello all first post so please be gentle 

 I will be receiving my Essence sound card today from Newegg great thread lots of excellent information here I do have a couple of question with regards to my setup I would like to ask.

 Firstly I downloaded the user manual to take a look at the I/O of the card.

 I am a little confused about something why does the manual show input 3 as the dedicated headphone output to plug in your cans, an then under connecting headphone it say’s to use RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable?

 The other question is I have to sets of phones one is the Sennheiser PC 350 which is a gamer set obviously it as 2 jacks one for the mic, and the headphone input.
 Would you guys connect those as the manual suggest which is RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable to the left and right outs or would you guys use the dedicated headphone jack, and then plug in the mic accordingly. 

 I want to achieve the best possible audio quality for both music listening through my HD595, and also make sure that all my connections are proper.


 Thanks in advance.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all first post so please be gentle 

 I will be receiving my Essence sound card today from Newegg great thread lots of excellent information here I do have a couple of question with regards to my setup I would like to ask.

 Firstly I downloaded the user manual to take a look at the I/O of the card.

 I am a little confused about something why does the manual show input 3 as the dedicated headphone output to plug in your cans, an then under connecting headphone it say’s to use RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable?

 The other question is I have to sets of phones one is the Sennheiser PC 350 which is a gamer set obviously it as 2 jacks one for the mic, and the headphone input.
 Would you guys connect those as the manual suggest which is RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable to the left and right outs or would you guys use the dedicated headphone jack, and then plug in the mic accordingly. 

 I want to achieve the best possible audio quality for both music listening through my HD595, and also make sure that all my connections are proper.


 Thanks in advance._

 

Firstly, I'd sell that POS PC350 and use the HD595 for gaming and save your cash (or use that money to buy some Audio Technica AD700's for gaming or if you *really* want a boom mic [not recommended as the stereo headphone + clip-on mic route is far better value], a Beyerdynamic MMX2 for around the same cash)
 Then buy a cheap clip-on mic.
 You'll be better off.
 Anyway, the Essence package should include one 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter (the gold pointy thing for lack of better words). Use that to plug it into the headphone out. I think you'll need another one for the mic out as well.
 Your HD595 package should of had one as well.
 If you have Windows XP, you will have to configure Kernel Streaming to bypass the crappy way XP processes audio (KMixer).
 A guide to set it up is below.
 If you are on Vista, there is no need to do this.


----------



## chinesekiwi

For this you will need *Winamp* or *Foobar2000* as a software music player. Winamp and Foobar2000 are far superior software music players than crapty iTunes and Windows Media Player, both are far more customiseable, both are far less resource hogging and both have superior support for a lot more audio files and audio-related features than both iTunes and WMP. Therefore I highly suggest 'moving' from iTunes or WMP to one of these players if you haven't done so already.
 For people shifting from iTunes that have alot of .m4a and .acc files, both players support .m4a and .acc file playback natively.

 Anyway, I'll better start explaining how to configure kernel streaming, starting with Foobar2000 followed by Winamp.
 This is assuming of course that you've downloaded and installed either one of the two players 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Note that your Foobar2000 template layout might be different from the screenshots (you can choose what layout you want upon install and you can always change it later). 
 This however doesn't affect the menu settings (which you can configure too by the way).
 For ease of use however for this guide, all menu settings are the default ones.

*[size=small]Configuring kernel streaming via Foobar2000[/size]

 * First download the Kernel Streaming Plugin and unzip the .dll file to your 'components' folder in Foobar2000.
 This is usually 'C:\Program Files\Foobar2000\components' or whatever directory you installed Foobar2000 in.

 * Open up Foobar2000 

 * Go 'File ---> Preferences'

 * If needed, expand 'Playback' by clicking on the [+] symbol.

 * Click on the word 'Output'

 * Under 'Output Device', there should be a drop-down menu. Select the one which has* '_KS: [Name of your soundcard] [Name of the PCI port you installed it in]_'






** Under 'Output Format/Postprocessing', there is another drop-down menu. Change the output to '24-bit', as all X-fi cards can process 24-bit data.






 * Click 'Save All' then 'Close' and then restart Foobar2000.*

 You're all done!

 Sidenote: The 'Buffer Length' 

  Quote:


 This determines the length of data, in ms, to buffer. This can help avoid any playback skipping when working with other processes. Higher buffering can also lead to increased memory use as well however, as well as increased delay in certain processes being applied, e.g. changing volume will takes X ms to apply. For best performance and minimum delay you should set this as low as you reasonably can without noticing any playback issues. - A complete guide to Foobar 2000 - TechSpot 
 

Playback issues can include skipping, 'static' or the track not even playing at all. The higher quality your soundcard and CPU, the less chance of issues arising because of lowering the buffer length.
 Mine's set at 250ms but this is purely optional and not essential for bit-perfect output.

*[size=small]Configuring kernel streaming via Winamp[/size]*

 Well, although I personally use Foobar2000, I admit that installing this in Winamp is slightly easier.

** Firstly, download the latest version of the Winamp Kernel Streaming Plugin (v.3.63 at time of writing).

 * Unzip the .dll file and put it in the 'Plugins' folder of Winamp, usually C:\Program Files\Winamp\Plugins' or whatever directory your Winamp installation is in.

 * Open up Winamp and go to Options ---> Preferences --> Output. Click on 'Kernel Streaming Output' and then click 'Configure' at the bottom of the Winamp Preferences box.
 Select your soundcard under 'Output Device'.

 Optional: I recommend ticking the 'Gapless Mode' box as well, as playback will not be interrupted between tracks. This is particularly useful if you're listening to an album track-to-track as a lot of albums are made to feel like one continuous track.*






** Click 'Ok' and restart Winamp.*


----------



## HeadLover

Isn't wasapi better than KS ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't wasapi better than KS ?_

 

No, the same really (sonically).
 Thus why you don't need to configure Kernel Streaming in Vista.


----------



## HeadLover

So, if I am using Vista, it will better using WASAPI, not ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadLover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, if I am using Vista, it will better using WASAPI, not ?_

 

If you want to save time configuring and installing stuff, yeah.
 WASAPI's fine for bit-matched playback


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Firstly, I'd sell that POS PC350 and use the HD595 for gaming and save your cash (or use that money to buy some Audio Technica AD700's for gaming or if you *really* want a boom mic [not recommended as the stereo headphone + clip-on mic route is far better value], a Beyerdynamic MMX2 for around the same cash)
 Then buy a cheap clip-on mic.
 You'll be better off.
 Anyway, the Essence package should include one 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter (the gold pointy thing for lack of better words). Use that to plug it into the headphone out. I think you'll need another one for the mic out as well.
 Your HD595 package should of had one as well.
 If you have Windows XP, you will have to configure Kernel Streaming to bypass the crappy way XP processes audio (KMixer).
 A guide to set it up is below.
 If you are on Vista, there is no need to do this._

 

Wow.....thank you. I use Vista 64bit sp1.
 So you really think highly of the PC350 huh they use the same driver as the 595 it cant be that horrible of a headset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So you would use the headphone out instead of the RCA connection for all headphone use? The manual is not that clear thanks again.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow.....thank you. I use Vista 64bit sp1.
 So you really think highly of the PC350 huh they use the same driver as the 595 it cant be that horrible of a headset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So you would use the headphone out instead of the RCA connection for all headphone use? The manual is not that clear thanks again._

 

Headphonic: The Sennheiser PC350 | Headphonic: Australian Headphone Specialists: Buy Etymotic, Alessandro, Audio Technica, Ultimate Ears, Talisman, Meier Audio and more

 Anyway using your logic, why would you have 'two' HD595's anyway when buying a clip-on mic for >$10 is far cheaper and does the same job?
 Tbh, the RCA connection sounds better to me than the Headphone Out but the RCA connections bypasses the internal headphone amp.

 If you haven't got an external headphone amp, I'd test out both and hear what you like better. That's always the best way to go.
 When using the RCA connections, switch the 'Analog Out' in the Xonar Audio Center to '2 Speakers'.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@chinesekiwi, have you tried the audioburst output plugin with the Essence?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@chinesekiwi, have you tried the audioburst output plugin with the Essence?_

 

No, not yet. I'll check it out.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Headphonic: The Sennheiser PC350 | Headphonic: Australian Headphone Specialists: Buy Etymotic, Alessandro, Audio Technica, Ultimate Ears, Talisman, Meier Audio and more

 Anyway using your logic, why would you have 'two' HD595's anyway when buying a clip-on mic for >$10 is far cheaper and does the same job?
 Tbh, the RCA connection sounds better to me than the Headphone Out but the RCA connections bypasses the internal headphone amp.

 If you haven't got an external headphone amp, I'd test out both and hear what you like better. That's always the best way to go.
 When using the RCA connections, switch the 'Analog Out' in the Xonar Audio Center to '2 Speakers'._

 

Well I did order the PC350 with the card and I suppose I could just return it if I decide not to open them.
 I figured it was a good set of headphone I could use while gaming, and didnt have to use a clip on mic. I read several reviews on the PC350 prior to finding Head-fi from several review sites and they all seemed positive.

Sennheiser PC 350 PRO-Gaming Headset Review - Peripheral Reviews - TrustedReviews
Sennheiser PC 350 Review and User Opinions - Sennheiser - Computer Hardware & Peripherals Reviews by Digital Trends

 but I hear ya I will listen to the Essence with my hd595, and see how it all goes....if it sound good which it should Ill return the PC350.

 Well......I wish I would have this forum before I bought the PC350.

 Thanks again


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have bee using the HD595 with the Essence STX and they sound very good.


----------



## Fafner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you ever done a side by side comparison of your Marantz and the Essence? I know they play in a really different league, but it would be nice to know if the extra money of the Marantz is really worth it._

 


 I haven't so far...I only tested the card with my Grados, as I'm too lazy to switch cables on my HD650, and recently I've been using exclusively the Sennheisers with the Marantz/B52 combo. Judging from what I remember, the Essence seems to lack a bit on focus and depth compared to the player/amp combo, but several months passed since I last used my GS1000. I'll do a check one day...


----------



## Shahrose

i've ordered the STX, should be arriving in a week or so. now i eagerly await the results from ROBSCIX's opamp tests.


----------



## s2kphile

New guy here sorry. I've been following this thread closely and read all 40 pages.I just picked up an STX myself which should be here tomorrow or monday replacing my X-fi Titanium. 

 From what I've been reading so far about the opamps

 LT1361 > LM4562
 2114 < 2134

 Is that correct what what I read? btw, I'm waiting on ROBSCIX's opamp tests also.


----------



## NGX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have Windows XP, you will have to configure Kernel Streaming to bypass the crappy way XP processes audio (KMixer).
 A guide to set it up is below.
 If you are on Vista, there is no need to do this._

 

Many thanks for the guide. It really improved the quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I actually had the OS in mind when I was about to buy this card. I had heard Vista had this new audio architecture and was wondering if XP wouldn't be optimal for this sound card. But I assumed the drivers and the like of the card would just blast through anything and everything and explode in your headphones with unstoppable, incredible sound.

 Sort of off-topic, but I've been downloading some Flac albums lately to try to get the best out of this card, and although they are in Flac format, many have terrible sound still, including mainly this constant, continuous low hissing sound throughout. Though it kind of seems to want to appear when there isn't any real instrument playing but when there are pauses or just silent moments in the song. Could be the recording, but this is even on Michael Jackson's re-releases, in Flac quality. The one that's the best are the ones I ripped in Flac with Winamp, though I'm going to rip them again with this EAC tool I heard about, even though I can't hear a difference between the 320kpbs MP3s I already had ripped, and the Flac.

 One song that was really good was Nirvana's Come As You Are, but for some reason the guitar intro goes down in volume right before the other instruments kick in. Must have been one coked-up Californian dude on the mixing table on that one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way. Am I the only one not hearing a difference with Foobar2000 from Winamp? They sound pretty much the same to me. I even downloaded that Asio thing I heard mentioned a couple of times.


----------



## mtan002

I am thinking about buying this card.

 From the manual, it looks like the RCA output is to feed directly to a pair of speakers. Can (should) you plug them into a pre-amp? Wondering if the signal is too strong compared to normal analog out from a CD player.

 M Tan


----------



## Ziek

_snip_
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I'll better start explaining how to configure kernel streaming, starting with Foobar2000 followed by Winamp._

 

Thank you very much for this guide! =]


----------



## Trojan150

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have Windows XP, you will have to configure Kernel Streaming to bypass the crappy way XP processes audio (KMixer).
 A guide to set it up is below.
 If you are on Vista, there is no need to do this._

 

Sorry for my naivety, but what does change? Improves quality?


----------



## s2kphile

anyone know where to pickup some 2134 opamps online? I have a hard time finding them (I'm a newbie).

 Is the correct part # for the LT1361 (LT1361CN8#PBF-ND) cause I'll be ordering it to replace the LM4562.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trojan150* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for my naivety, but what does change? Improves quality?_

 

Yes by bypassing how the Windows XP OS processes sound.
 Even non-audiophiles notice this change immediately.


----------



## Bojamijams

Alydon has mentioned that the LT1361 gave him better results. Even better tyhen 1364 which he tried. The odd thing is, the 1361 is the 'weakest' of the op-amps in terms to technical specs. The LT1368 would be the best one. 

 However, best by spec isn't necessarily best by ear since Alydon prefered it.


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alydon has mentioned that the LT1361 gave him better results. Even better tyhen 1364 which he tried. The odd thing is, the 1361 is the 'weakest' of the op-amps in terms to technical specs. The LT1368 would be the best one. 

 However, best by spec isn't necessarily best by ear since Alydon prefered it._

 

Hmm I guess I should just buy the LT1368 also so I can decide which sounds better in my ear. btw, you know where I can buy some 2134's?

 guess we have to wait until we see people try out the other opamps or do it ourselves. =P


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mtan002* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am thinking about buying this card.

 From the manual, it looks like the RCA output is to feed directly to a pair of speakers. Can (should) you plug them into a pre-amp? Wondering if the signal is too strong compared to normal analog out from a CD player.

 M Tan_

 

The RCA outputs are Line-Level, The signal levels are industry standard and would be similar to a CD player in that respect. You can connect them to any gear such as a receiver, amplifier etc..


----------



## fzman

rather than upload them again, i have included the link to the audioasylum post that i made with the pix and a brief description of them....

 comments welcome!

Computer Audio Asylum - swenson psu for xonar essence -pix - mschneider - February 07, 2009 at 16:49:34

 best,

 Mark


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nice...


----------



## fzman

opa2134 at digikey

Digi-Key - OPA2134PA-ND (Texas Instruments - OPA2134PA)


----------



## Dionysus

Insalled over the weekend I must say coming from the XFI card the Essence card sound so much better under phone even with the PC350. 

 BTW your right about the sound out of the senn PC350 they are not good. I played music thru them very disaapointed GAMING while better still not happy so I might flebay them not sure,and I cant return them but I got such a good deal I may just give them to my son. 

 What do you think about the senn HD600 and this card? I will more than likely get a clip on mic of some sort as well. The HD595 I had I sold even before the card arrived, and now I need to replace them because the PC350 are not going to cut it.


----------



## flopper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 What do you think about the senn HD600 and this card?_

 

I get my hd600 tomorow.
 using sennheiser 570 atm.
 so i can give my impressions later.


----------



## iriverdude

What is up with that site's obsession with PCI-E soundcards? :-/

 Also from that card it really needs to have external box to plug headphones into, major pain in the bum having to plug in round the back


----------



## usf09

NGX, I have the same exact problem as you...when I am listening to something with a lot of instruments or few pauses the card sounds fine...I have some 256kbps classical files and they actually sound worse than a lot of my 128kbps files, so I don't know what's going on...the hissing noise just completely takes over the music and it's really annoying, impossible to listen to really...

 Also, has anyone had a problem where the sound card just does not output any sound? I had to reinstall the drivers today after only having the card for a few days...if this keeps happening I may have to return this and buy an external dac...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NGX, I have the same exact problem as you...when I am listening to something with a lot of instruments or few pauses the card sounds fine...I have some 256kbps classical files and they actually sound worse than a lot of my 128kbps files, so I don't know what's going on...the hissing noise just completely takes over the music and it's really annoying, impossible to listen to really...

 Also, has anyone had a problem where the sound card just does not output any sound? I had to reinstall the drivers today after only having the card for a few days...if this keeps happening I may have to return this and buy an external dac..._

 

that doesn't sound right. none of the high-end soundcards i've tried have had any background noise/audible floor noise. if it doesn't have a silent background, it's very likely a by-product of a cheap powersupply or perhaps interference from other components (high-end vid card).

 i have a solid computer system (in terms of audio..good psu etc) and i have the STX on order. if it doesn't have an absolutely black background in my setup, then it's going straight back to NCIX, no matter how good it sounds otherwise.


----------



## taso89

This is misleading. A poor recording will have noise at 48kbps, 128kbps, 320kbps or at lossless, it doesn't make a difference. Many classical tracks, especially older ones indeed have hiss but that's a product of a poor recording.


----------



## s2kphile

I just bought a set of OPA2134's and the LT1361 to try out on the STX. Since I'll be getting my STX first I'll go ahead and try the stock opamps on it. Then I'll see what it sounds like with the opamps I ordered. Hopefully we can get some more info on other OPAMPS.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I tried out the 2134's, 2227's and 2107's....
 All seemed to offer something different. As was mentioned earlier the 2134's seemed to improve the low end of the card adding a bit more weight to it. The 2227's have a similar sound but the bass region is somewhat different and more extended. 
 The 2107's are very nice also and they seem to add more clarity but offer a mroe transparent sound.
 I am very poor at describing what I hear verbally.
 I think you will enjoy the 2134's using them for the I/V...


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not a obsession, just this card has lot to offer the headphone community for the price.

 If you find it such a pain just get a extension cable. The card has dedicated Heapdhone and Speaker outs, so if you don't really need to unplug your heapdhones all the time.
 When you enable speakers, the headphones mute and Vice-versa._

 

That's one of the reasons I got one so I don't have to keep switching between my HD280s and my A2s.

 EDIT: Just want to make sure these are the right part numbers: LT1361CN8#PBF-ND, OPA2134PA-ND.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that doesn't sound right. none of the high-end soundcards i've tried have had any background noise/audible floor noise. if it doesn't have a silent background, it's very likely a by-product of a cheap powersupply or perhaps interference from other components (high-end vid card).

 i have a solid computer system (in terms of audio..good psu etc) and i have the STX on order. if it doesn't have an absolutely black background in my setup, then it's going straight back to NCIX, no matter how good it sounds otherwise._

 


 The card is dead quiet on my system. When it goes silent in the music, there is NO sound...dead black quiet...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Unless the music has recording noise in it, from being a older track or live..etc..etc
 Give us your impression when you get it.

 To the others if you are noticing some type of noise, that is not right and something is definatley wrong.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's one of the reasons I got one so I don't have to keep switching between my HD280s and my A2s.

 EDIT: Just want to make sure these are the right part numbers: LT1361CN8#PBF-ND, OPA2134PA-ND._

 

Just aslong as your using DIP8 version those shold be ok. The 2134 # sounds right. I am unfamiliair with that LT opamp. I suggest using the card with the stock opamps first so you get used to the stock sound. Many also reccomend allowing soundcards to "burn-in" not sure your opinion on that.

 Once your familiar with the stock sound, try out one of the new opamps. I tried my opamps in the I/V section so you have to replace two as trhe LM4562 makes a good final buffer IMO.


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just aslong as your using DIP8 version those shold be ok. The 234 # sounds right. I am unfamiliair with that LT opamp. I suggest using the card with the stock opamps first so you get used to the stock sound. Many also reccomend allowing soundcards to "burn-in" not sure your opinion on that.

 Once your familiar with the stock sound, try out one of the new opamps. I tried my opamps in the I/V section so you have to replace two as trhe LM4562 makes a good final buffer IMO._

 

Yeah, I'll go ahead and do that once I get my STX and have it install i'm gonna run it 3 days straight to achieve 'burn in' and thats when my opamps should come it. 

 Alydon found it to provide a noticeable improvement to overall clarity, soundstage depth and dynamics over the LM4562. So thats why I went with the LT1361. I'll maybe buy some more opamps just to try them out and find the my type of sound.


----------



## kite7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes by bypassing how the Windows XP OS processes sound.
 Even non-audiophiles notice this change immediately._

 

Thanks a lot chinesekiwi, I just changed to kernel output on my winamp and wow everything sounds incredible. Using a x-fi modded with LM4562


----------



## iriverdude

I'm using ASIO, that's the same thing? ASIO4ALL for HTPC- M-Audio Revolution 5.1 and X-Fi Extreme Music Creative ASIO


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'll go ahead and do that once I get my STX and have it install i'm gonna run it 3 days straight to achieve 'burn in' and thats when my opamps should come it. 

 Alydon found it to provide a noticeable improvement to overall clarity, soundstage depth and dynamics over the LM4562. So thats why I went with the LT1361. I'll maybe buy some more opamps just to try them out and find the my type of sound._

 

I am putting together a new list of opamps to try out, LT's are among my new units. So your talking about chagin out the LM4562 to anotehr opamp. I have done minimanl experiements with changing the single end buffer opamp. I have been changing the I/V section opamps -chaging the JRC 2114D's to higher spec units like the 2134,2227 or 2107's I have many others but these seemed like a good place to start for testing.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is up with that site's obsession with PCI-E soundcards? :-/

 Also from that card it really needs to have external box to plug headphones into, major pain in the bum having to plug in round the back_

 

No it doesn't, what are you on about?
 All you need is a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter for the internal headphone amp if you don't already have an external headphone amp.
 Also this is a new product that is great for the money so I dunno what you're on about.


----------



## usf09

Okay, so after going through 4 hours of classical music today, I found that the hiss is only on some tracks...i have the same song recorded at two different times by the orchestra and only one has the most awful hissing noise ever...the other is only 96kbps but sounds perfect(as perf. as 96 kbps can sound)...it has to be the recordings...

 on another note, does anyone else get a popping noise when switching from headphones to speakers? it is clearly audible, and i am worried that the noise will cause some sort of damage to the speakers and headphones...


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried out the 2134's, 2227's and 2107's....
 All seemed to offer something different. As was mentioned earlier the 2134's seemed to improve the low end of the card adding a bit more weight to it. The 2227's have a similar sound but the bass region is somewhat different and more extended. 
 The 2107's are very nice also and they seem to add more clarity but offer a mroe transparent sound.
 I am very poor at describing what I hear verbally.
 I think you will enjoy the 2134's using them for the I/V..._

 

I'm curious rob, is this what you're using for your I/V section now? The 2134's?


----------



## d(((--)))b

usf09

 The clicking noise created by the card when switching between speakers and headphone is normal.. Someone mentioned that the clicking noise protects your headphones/speakers from power surge.


----------



## usf09

ohh, great, thanks...i was worried...i kept turning off my speakers and unplugging my headphones just to keep from getting that noise...good to know thats not problem...thanks again for that info, def. helpful...


----------



## bhaskie

Guys I just ordered my STX and will be getting it in a week. Currently I have a Senn HD280 and I don't really like them much paired with the sound from RTL889A audio - Gigabyte GA-MA78GM mobo. 

 I am planning to get a new pair of cans, but I am not sure if Senn HD600/650 or AKG701 would be an overkill for the STX. I listen to classical, rock and watch movies through the headphones, so it's an important decision! Will the 280 sound significantly better with the STX than they do now, or should I go ahead a get the 600 or better?!


----------



## s2kphile

Having just ordered the STX which should come in tomorrow. I also have a set of HD280Pro's. I'll let you know. 

 I had the same dilema choosing to either get the HD650 or akg701s. But I ultimately decided to get the Denon D2000 since I can do the MarkL mod and make then sound better and it's closed vs open.


----------



## bhaskie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having just ordered the STX which should come in tomorrow. I also have a set of HD280Pro's. I'll let you know. 

 I had the same dilema choosing to either get the HD650 or akg701s. But I ultimately decided to get the Denon D2000 since I can do the MarkL mod and make then sound better and it's closed vs open._

 

Thanks! Do let me know if the HD280pro sounds better with the STX.
 I prefer open cans so was thinking of the HD600 and not something like the Denon D2000. Just that I don't wanna spend more on the HD600 if I can get similar quality through the STX from say something like HD595.

 Any comments?


----------



## flopper

Got my new sennhiser 600.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 its getting loud suddenly.
 amping it up, and its impossible to run it at previous levels.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (sennheiser 570)
 More space, clarity and dynamics with the hd600.
 Not however jaw dropping.

 I am not sure how to configure this tho, stereo, 7 speaker and so on, as sounds shifts dramatically between those modes.


----------



## NGX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is misleading. A poor recording will have noise at 48kbps, 128kbps, 320kbps or at lossless, it doesn't make a difference. Many classical tracks, especially older ones indeed have hiss but that's a product of a poor recording._

 

I think there must be something wrong with my card of headphones. Somebody mentioned it could be interference from a graphics card, and mine is mounted right by the GPU.

 Can you install the card on PCI-E x16? The seating is much longer than the card's connector fins. I'm not sure, because as I understood, the card has PCI fins and not PCI-E, or am I totally off track here?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my new sennhiser 600.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 its getting loud suddenly.
 amping it up, and its impossible to run it at previous levels.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (sennheiser 570)
 More space, clarity and dynamics with the hd600.
 Not however jaw dropping.

 I am not sure how to configure this tho, stereo, 7 speaker and so on, as sounds shifts dramatically between those modes._

 

Lower the volume in the mixer menu. Those control the master volumes, so you can lower them, and have more freedom with the knob (round) volume control in the main menu.


----------



## Dionysus

I also am interested it what folks say about pairing this card with say a quality pair of phones like the senn hd600/650. Would love to hear any comments.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NGX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think there must be something wrong with my card of headphones. Somebody mentioned it could be interference from a graphics card, and mine is mounted right by the GPU.

 Can you install the card on PCI-E x16? The seating is much longer than the cards connector fins. I'm not sure, because as I understood, the card has PCI fins and not PCI-E, or am I totally off track here?



 Lower the volume in the mixer menu. Those control the master volumes, so you can lower them, and have more freedom with the knob (round) volume control in the main menu._

 


 I just installed my over the weekend on a x38 Asus Maximus Formula motherboard, and I installed it on the x16 slot no issues at all the pcie-x1 slot was right under the top x16 slot which would have ben to close for my taste.
 So I chose to use the x16 slot which would other wise be used to stick another video card in crossfire mode. The answer again is no issue at all and the card sounds fantastic.

 BY the Way if your speaking of the Asus Essence card its a pci-e card not pci.


----------



## NGX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just installed my over the weekend on a x38 Asus Maximus Formula motherboard, and I installed it on the x16 slot no issues at all the pcie-x1 slot was right under the top x16 slot which would have ben to close for my taste.
 So I chose to use the x16 slot which would other wise be used to stick another video card in crossfire mode. The answer again is no issue at all and the card sounds fantastic.

 BY the Way if your speaking of the Asus Essence card its a pci-e card not pci._

 

Thanks. They're too close for me too, right by the heat sink.

 Sort of an unorthodox question, but can anybody upload a good rip, at 320kbps MP3 or Flac, of a song with a lot of silent moments in it? I want to see if I can hear any noise, and just check just what you guys are listening to, to be so amazed with this card, because so far I'm pretty bummed out on the money I spent on this set up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will try to uninstall the drivers, take out the card and listen with my HD650s to some random tracks, install it to one of the free x16 slots and compare. Oh, joy...


----------



## Dionysus

What setup did you have with your Senn HD650 prior to the Essence card just for a point of reference...NGX?


----------



## NGX

Asus P5Q-E motherboard.

 I'll let you know about the experiment. I read a lot of reviews for both the card and the headphones. The HD650s got praise for its sound stage while the HD595s got complaints for the same thing, so I went for these 200$ more expensive HD650s. As mentioned, though - you will find a lot of positive reviews of the HD650s.


----------



## evilpanda

Just installed the card. It sounds great! However I can't control the volume the big knob in the Asus Mixer. I can use the volume control on my keyboard, but the knob on the mixer doesn't work at all. I'm using Vista.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NGX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Asus P5Q-E motherboard.

 I'll let you know about the experiment. I read a lot of reviews for both the card and the headphones. The HD650s got praise for its sound stage while the HD595s got complaints for the same thing, so I went for these 200$ more expensive HD650s. As mentioned, though - you will find a lot of positive reviews of the HD650s._

 

Looking forward to hearing back thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Flopper, what Gain level do you have the amplifier set to?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilpanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just installed the card. It sounds great! However I can't control the volume the big knob in the Asus Mixer. I can use the volume control on my keyboard, but the knob on the mixer doesn't work at all. I'm using Vista._

 

Make sure your using the latest version of the drivers for your OS.


----------



## usf09

Alright, so after convincing myself the hiss was from the recordings, I just noticed something...when I finish a song and haven't selected another one, there is a loud hiss...both speakers and headphones have the hiss, so it has to be the card or something, because there isn't any music actually being played...my card is right between my vid. card and the heatsink, so i'm not sure if there is interference or anything...

 however, i noticed that on my speakers, the hiss lasts for about 10 seconds after the song has completed, and then shuts off...i don't know what to do, because this is now getting frustrating...is it a defective card, or is this problem due to something else?


----------



## ROBSCIX

What software are you using to play music?


----------



## NGX

It's not interference. I just installed the card by the bottom of the chassis, far from the GPU and heat sink.

 I honestly don't hear much difference between the on-board audio on my motherboard, and this dedicated sound card.

 usf09, I heard the same hiss that would last for about 5-10 seconds, and it was most noticeable in the settings and options menu of the Unreal Tournament 3 video game... of all places.

 And when I play Sonic Riders, and first have to select to load a game, and confirm to load that game, etc., the same clicking noise appears before each sound effect. Sound effects that confirm that I've confirmed something, etc. The same sound you hear when you shift between headphones and speakers.

 So I uninstalled the drivers for this card earlier, and started up with the card removed, and plugged my headphones to the motherboard. Subtle differences in music. Sounds from synthesizers were a little more like gibberish than instruments. Real instruments had a little bit less clarity to them. An odd thing was that with this card, Nirvana's Come As You Are (Flac) starts loud, then drops in volume as the drums and bass kick in, while my motherboard plays it oppositely; starts low, then gets a volume boost when the other instruments come in. And that actually sounded better.

 Ok. Listened to a bunch more MP3s and downloaded Flacs, and none produce this spectacular audio this card is supposed to display. Played my own ripped albums, and although they are not bad, there is still noise for half a second at the beginning of every track, when there is _supposed_ to be silence as instruments haven't started playing yet. I'm going to test these headphones at a hi-fi store and see how they play on their best equipment with my own CDs so I can compare it with my own, and see what to do from there...


----------



## usf09

I'm using iTunes right now, mostly 256kbps music, except for a lot of classical stuff I got from iTunes which seems to be 96kbps (still has less hiss though than some other quiet songs...)

 I just uninstalled my card, reinstalled in a PCI slot, sounded about the same, then read it was bad to install in a PCI slot, so I uninstalled again, put it back in the PCI-e slot, reinstalled drivers and I'm back to square 1...Does no one else have this hiss with the STX? Should I RMA the card and try a new one? It's possible that there was a flaw in the card...I haven't even tried onboard sound to be honest with you, so I have nothing to compare it against...

 Also, I'm using HD650s so the imperfections are just enhanced greatly...but, playing music out of my ipod, without an amp mind you, I am not getting as much hiss...the instrument heavy parts of the songs either mask or replace the hiss, but once the song is finished the noise is there, which means something is going on with the card or itunes...i bought a few songs from amazon to try out but I'm getting similar problems...


----------



## flopper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Flopper, what Gain level do you have the amplifier set to?_

 

middle set, 64-300.
 The sound is so roomy, and distinct.
 Playing the songs, its a whole different way to listen as, the volume is more direct.


----------



## limesinferior

@NGX

 Sort of an unorthodox question, but can anybody upload a good rip, at 320kbps MP3 or Flac, of a song with a lot of silent moments in it?

 u might want 2 try this:

HiRes Samples | Design w Sound

 (registration needed)


----------



## Dionysus

I do not have any hiss on this card it is black, no noise at all.


----------



## usf09

You never have any hiss? In between songs, it is completely silent? See that's a problem for me then, because I definitely have the hiss between songs...I will probably RMA the card and try to get a new one...that means I'll be without decent sound for at least a few weaks but I guess it's necessary...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just uninstalled my card, reinstalled in a PCI slot, sounded about the same, then read it was bad to install in a PCI slot, so I uninstalled again, put it back in the PCI-e slot, reinstalled drivers and I'm back to square 1...Does no one else have this hiss with the STX?_

 

i'm surprised it worked when you installed it in the PCI slot...


----------



## usf09

I was surprised too...no degredation of quality but no better either...so i put it back in the correct slot...i'm actually kind of angry that i need to RMA the card, i have a problem with patience...


----------



## DarkScythe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was surprised too.._

 

I believe what he meant was that he was amazed you even managed to get it in there. The slots for PCI and PCI-e are completely different. It is physically impossible to shove one card into the other slot without breaking something.


----------



## usf09

Oh, nvm, I wasn't paying attention, it was actually a PCI-e X16...I have two of them on my mobo, I didn't even read the labels, just went with the one that looked like it may fit...

 Anyway, I just submitted my RMA to newegg, hopefully will have a new card in, oh 2-3 weeks...it sucks that I'm gonna have to use onboard sound, but what can you do? Hopefully the next one doesn't have any noise problems...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, nvm, I wasn't paying attention, it was actually a PCI-e X16...I have two of them on my mobo, I didn't even read the labels, just went with the one that looked like it may fit...

 Anyway, I just submitted my RMA to newegg, hopefully will have a new card in, oh 2-3 weeks...it sucks that I'm gonna have to use onboard sound, but what can you do? Hopefully the next one doesn't have any noise problems..._

 

You might have wanted to try the card in another PC to verify if the card has issues or if it is some type of motherboard/card compatibility problem.
 I may have commencted already but I have zero hiss of anytype between tracks. When there is no music ro sound of any kinds the card is dead quite BLACK. Atleast when you get the card back you will have what everybody else has been talking about.


----------



## usf09

i have a creative usb soundcard, so i am gonna try that out and see if the hiss stops...if it does, then the asus is defective, if it isn't then it has to be the recorded files...we'll see what happens


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a creative usb soundcard, so i am gonna try that out and see if the hiss stops...if it does, then the asus is defective, if it isn't then it has to be the recorded files...we'll see what happens_

 

That's not a fair comparison. You need to try another internal soundcard.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Not sure what that comparison would do. You definately have some type of issue. Many people have already stated the card is dead silent on their systems. Mine included...


----------



## usf09

Okay, so not sure what the comparison did, but at least the USB card has no hissing in the background...I don't have another internal sound card (first desktop, always had laptops before, but the xonar is supposed to be compatible with my evga x58 mobo)...I'm definitely going to RMA the card, and just use my speakers instead of hd650s for everything the next few weeks...hopefully the new one will be good...


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is why I suggested you try the card on another motherboard as it may not be the card. Rather a Mobo/card issue. Save you time.

 If the card is working as it should there is neither audible hiss nor noise....


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, so not sure what the comparison did, but at least the USB card has no hissing in the background...I don't have another internal sound card (first desktop, always had laptops before, but the xonar is supposed to be compatible with my evga x58 mobo)...I'm definitely going to RMA the card, and just use my speakers instead of hd650s for everything the next few weeks...hopefully the new one will be good..._

 

What Power supply do you have? 

 What media player do you use?

 Do you have another computer to test the card in?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NGX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not interference. I just installed the card by the bottom of the chassis, far from the GPU and heat sink.

 I honestly don't hear much difference between the on-board audio on my motherboard, and this dedicated sound card.

 usf09, I heard the same hiss that would last for about 5-10 seconds, and it was most noticeable in the settings and options menu of the Unreal Tournament 3 video game... of all places.

 And when I play Sonic Riders, and first have to select to load a game, and confirm to load that game, etc., the same clicking noise appears before each sound effect. Sound effects that confirm that I've confirmed something, etc. The same sound you hear when you shift between headphones and speakers.

 So I uninstalled the drivers for this card earlier, and started up with the card removed, and plugged my headphones to the motherboard. Subtle differences in music. Sounds from synthesizers were a little more like gibberish than instruments. Real instruments had a little bit less clarity to them. An odd thing was that with this card, Nirvana's Come As You Are (Flac) starts loud, then drops in volume as the drums and bass kick in, while my motherboard plays it oppositely; starts low, then gets a volume boost when the other instruments come in. And that actually sounded better.

 Ok. Listened to a bunch more MP3s and downloaded Flacs, and none produce this spectacular audio this card is supposed to display. Played my own ripped albums, and although they are not bad, there is still noise for half a second at the beginning of every track, when there is supposed to be silence as instruments haven't started playing yet. I'm going to test these headphones at a hi-fi store and see how they play on their best equipment with my own CDs so I can compare it with my own, and see what to do from there..._

 

You did switch the output source in Windows Sounds and/or the output in your software music player right?


----------



## usf09

PC Power&Cooling 750W PSU, Foobar/iTunes, and not unless I go to my friend's house...the only possible problem with the PSU would be that I am running a core i7 920 (stock speeds) and gtx 285 as well, but psu calc shows that ~500W should be enough...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Not all PSU calculators are the same accuracy..I found this one to be the best

Thermaltake Power Supply Calculator

 Anyway, no hiss in my system and I am forced to have my Essence STX to be right under my GPU = not ideal at all.


----------



## usf09

Actually, that was the same calculator I used...my GTX285 is in a PCI-e 2x8 slot...and the pci-e x1 slot is directly above that, but the asus site says i can put it in the pci-e x16 slot so when I get it back (if I RMA, 99% sure i will), I'm gonna try to put it in that slot, so there will be some space...or better yet, i will have the gtx 285 on top with the asus a slot away...


----------



## iriverdude

You're fine with that PSU, if it's just in Windows then using less power so I doubt you're overloading it. If it's crashing in games then it could be insufficient PSU.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PC Power&Cooling 750W PSU, Foobar/iTunes, and not unless I go to my friend's house...the only possible problem with the PSU would be that I am running a core i7 920 (stock speeds) and gtx 285 as well, but psu calc shows that ~500W should be enough..._

 

this is one of the best computer PSU's available around the 700W mark, i doubt it's the PSU that's causing the hissing. RMA the card and check if the problem persists.


----------



## usf09

Yeah, the PSU is solid, no problems in games or in stress testing...I boxed up the Essence and am using the Creative usb 5.1 card...I can tell the sound quality of the essence is better overall, (except the hiss of course), but this is still a good card...can't complain for $50...


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PC Power&Cooling 750W PSU, Foobar/iTunes, and not unless I go to my friend's house...the only possible problem with the PSU would be that I am running a core i7 920 (stock speeds) and gtx 285 as well, but psu calc shows that ~500W should be enough..._

 

Very good PSU I have the same one. MY rig: xeon E3110 3.6 ghz, 4870 x2,
 PC Power&Cooling 750W PSU.


----------



## usf09

I was gonna get the 4870X2, but I found the GTX 285 for $325, actually went with it so I could get the Essence and be under budget...so far that hasn't worked out as well as I planned lol, but if everyone else's system is silent, I'm cautiously optimistic that the next one will work...


----------



## taso89

usf09:

 As a last resort, could you try changing to 96khz sampling rate? I had the tiniest hiss on low impedance cans at 44.1khz that went away completely at all other sampling rates.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's crashing in games then it could be insufficient PSU._

 

It's more the drivers that are the issue here with GS3D 2.5 not being friendly with some games.

 i.e. the BSOD will indicate from the .sys file that it's a driver issue with the Essence STX.


----------



## usf09

unfortunately, the hiss was there on every sampling rate...i tried them all, and from 44-192 there was a pretty audible hiss...i may install it one more time to check every possible setting, just to make sure im not missing something, but im pretty sure ive fiddled around with everything to no avail...RMA seems to be the only option, but thats fine, newegg is supposed to be good with RMA, shouldn't be too much of a problem...


----------



## s2kphile

Woot just got mine in today. =) I have a question:

 Since I have some LT1361 & 2134 OPamps coming in should I just wait until I have those OPAMPS and install them onto the card then install the card into my PC and burn them in or should I do the burn in on the stock card w/ stock opamps then install the 1361 & 2134 OPAMPS after?


----------



## DarkScythe

If you're going to burn it in, you might as well get your final setup and burn everything in at once. I'd think that would take less time in the end.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkRegion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xonar Essence---> AD700_

 

lols using this atm.

 What volume to you have it at?
 Mine's at '3' lols.
 Shows how much the AD700's need an amp


----------



## ROBSCIX

@S2kphile, you could burn everything in at once..but don't you atelast want to sample the stock sound before you try other opamps?
 I would just let the card burn in stock first so you can enjoy the sound and you will have a better idea of what the new opamps are doing for you.


----------



## Dionysus

Just curious here with regards to the drop down menu assigning the impedence. Do anyone of you go out of spec?...in other words if your headphones are speced at 50ohm say do you run them at the max in the menu to get more output(DB)? And if you do can you cause damage to either the headphones or the card by doing this? Did this for like half a track jus out of curiousity and they sounded good


----------



## Shahrose

@ROBSCIX and others interested in opamps. check this review of a group of popular ones. i've tried a few of those and my impressions match the reviewer's so i trust him. he seems to be a head-fi'er and uses his Grado RS-1 for testing.

*Audio Reviews: Flavors of Audio Op-Amps*

 apparently he thinks very highly of the AD8066, and now i'm interested in testing it out on the STX.


----------



## s2kphile

How many hours do you guys think I should continually run the amp for optimal burn in?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ROBSCIX and others interested in opamps. check this review of a group of popular ones. i've tried a few of those and my impressions match the reviewer's so i trust him. he seems to be a head-fi'er and uses his Grado RS-1 for testing.

*Audio Reviews: Flavors of Audio Op-Amps*

 apparently he thinks very highly of the AD8066, and now i'm interested in testing it out on the STX._

 

I don't think the AD8066 would fit on the STX because I can't seem to find one with an 8-DIP, most of it is 8-SOIC or 8-MSOP. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## evilpanda

Wait wait wait. Are you guys actually saying that my Xonar Essence STX needs burn in? Headphones ok, but a sound card?


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilpanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait wait wait. Are you guys actually saying that my Xonar Essence STX needs burn in? Headphones ok, but a sound card?_

 

It has a built in headphone amp, aren't they suppose to be burn in? At least the headphone amp?


----------



## evilpanda

I don't know. I understand the heaphone has drivers but an amp? How can burn in help?

 Btw the card is awesome.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you guys think I should continually run the amp for optimal burn in?



 I don't think the AD8066 would fit on the STX because I can't seem to find one with an 8-DIP, most of it is 8-SOIC or 8-MSOP. Correct me if I'm wrong._

 

good point...i haven't looked. might have to wait for others to pitch in on this one.


----------



## Bojamijams

I think component burn-in applies to capacitors really.. while there are some that'll argue that even headphones don't need burn-in (I disagree) there are even more that think burn-in on digital components is all placebo (don't have experience personally) 

 From speakign to Dr. Jan Meier (of Meier audio) he seems to think that beyond 12 hours that he puts in at his shop to test and make sure the amps work, no burn-in is required. 

 There is a fine line between placebo and burn-in effect.


----------



## NGX

I skipped the burn-in process as I figured I'd use the playtime to listen to music and didn't mind waiting a few days before the headphones reached their potential. Is in-burning something that's actually _good_ for the headphones, or will the same burn-in happen if you stop and resume the music during its burn-in process?


----------



## Bojamijams

Burning in isn't good or bad for headphones, its good for you in terms that you get a fuller soon.

 Some will argue that you'll never fully develop them unless you use pink noise (all frequencies at once) as the music you listen to can not be hitting certain frequencies and thus not fully opening the drivers.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you guys think I should continually run the amp for optimal burn in?



 I don't think the AD8066 would fit on the STX because I can't seem to find one with an 8-DIP, most of it is 8-SOIC or 8-MSOP. Correct me if I'm wrong._

 

That is correct. The AD8066 does not come in an 8DIP package so you'd have to use an adapter.

 I think 48hrs is a pretty good burn-in time for the STX. I didn't hear much if any improvement to the sound after that. 

 @NGX, your headphones will burn-in for the most part through normal use as well. It might take a little longer to reach their full potential depending on what you're listening too, though. The Burn-in process is kinda like warming up your muscles before working out. Sure you could skip the warm-up before you start doing sets since your muscles will warm up on their own during the workout. But you'll gain more benefit from the first few sets if you warm up first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 When I burn in headphone I use them normally during the day and then give them burn-in sessions at night while I'm sleeping so they burn-in faster but I can still use them.


----------



## s2kphile

Well I just ordered a couple of more of OPAMPS. Should come in the next week or two. These are what I have ordered and are coming in. Most of it was free =)

 LME49720NA (2)
 LME49860NA (2)
 OPA2111KP (2)
 LT1361CN (1)
 OPA2134PA (2)

 From what I read the LME49860 and OPA2111 should pair well together. I just to find a sufficient molex PSU that can supply up to +- 15 Volts.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The 8066 and other SOIC type chips can be soldered onto a adapter either a dual channel SOIC to DIP8 or a 2X single channel SOIC to DIP8. Many opamps are single channel and you will require two for a single module for use on the STX.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just ordered a couple of more of OPAMPS. Should come in the next week or two. These are what I have ordered and are coming in. Most of it was free =)

 LME49720NA (2)
 LME49860NA (2)
 OPA2111KP (2)
 LT1361CN (1)
 OPA2134PA (2)

 From what I read the LME49860 and OPA2111 should pair well together. I just to find a sufficient molex PSU that can supply up to +- 15 Volts._

 

I tried the LME49860 in the LM4562's place last week, and I'm afraid I wasn't too impressed when I tried it. I really wanted to like it since I'd read wonderful things about it in other forums. It sounds very well balanced across the spectrum. But it feels somewhat closed in, too soft/quiet, and loses a bit of dynamics compared to the other opamps I've tried (including the lm4562). It's almost like it's not getting fed enough juice, like something is holding it back. I didn't like it.

 I also tried the LT1364. It's very similar to the 1361, but without the improvement in the highs. In fact the lm4562 treble sounds better to me since the 1364 sounds a little veiled/rolled off above about 8-10KHz by comparison. Bass seemed a touch stronger than the 1361, but that might be because of the recessed treble.


 I also have the following on order, which should reach me by the end of the week:

 opa2134 
 LM6172
 LT1057
 2 more LT1361's so I can try them in all 3 spots if I want.


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the LME49860 in the LM4562's place last week, and I'm afraid I wasn't too impressed when I tried it. I really wanted to like it since I'd read wonderful things about it in other forums. It sounds very well balanced across the spectrum. But it feels somewhat closed in, too soft/quiet, and loses a bit of dynamics compared to the other opamps I've tried (including the lm4562). It's almost like it's not getting fed enough juice, like something is holding it back. I didn't like it.

 I also tried the LT1364. It's very similar to the 1361, but without the improvement in the highs. In fact the lm4562 treble sounds better to me since the 1364 sounds a little veiled/rolled off above about 8-10KHz by comparison. Bass seemed a touch stronger than the 1361, but that might be because of the recessed treble.


 I also have the following on order, which should reach me by the end of the week:

 opa2134 
 LM6172
 LT1057
 2 more LT1361's so I can try them in all 3 spots if I want._

 

Thats what I've read about the LM49860 it needs lot of juice to perform well. What heard is about -+ 15Volts and my PSU only gives up to 5V thats why I'm looking for a separate Molex PSU with at least 15 -+


----------



## Alydon

Something like this adapter from Lind Electronics might do the trick since you can have them make a custom adapter plug for you. I'm sure it'd be no problem for them to put a molex on the end for ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda spendy at $69 though. And of course I don't know enough about electronics to know how well the other components on the STX would tolerate 15.6V...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something like this adapter from Lind Electronics might do the trick since you can have them make a custom adapter plug for you. I'm sure it'd be no problem for them to put a molex on the end for ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda spendy at $69 though. And of course I don't know enough about electronics to know how well the other components on the STX would tolerate 15.6V..._

 

Alydon. is this the exact chip to get for the Essence STX? 
Digi-Key - LT1361CN8#PBF-ND (Linear Technology - LT1361CN8#PBF)

 or did you get some other part # ?
 also, just making sure, we'll only need one of these correct? I'm asking basic questions just because I think I'm going to finalize my decision and just settle on the LT1361. reports of other opamps are too inconsistent with the STX and i'm not sure if discrete opamps are going to perform optimally within the voltage range of the STX.


----------



## s2kphile

I seem to have problem with my STX right now. my stx is loud at 5% volume it almost sounds like it's at 40-50%. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyone know how to fix?

 It makes my headphones come alive.


----------



## taso89

s2kphile: Send it to a lower impedance setting, press the little toolbox in the Xonar Control Panel.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alydon. is this the exact chip to get for the Essence STX? 
Digi-Key - LT1361CN8#PBF-ND (Linear Technology - LT1361CN8#PBF)

 or did you get some other part # ?
 also, just making sure, we'll only need one of these correct? I'm asking basic questions just because I think I'm going to finalize my decision and just settle on the LT1361. reports of other opamps are too inconsistent with the STX and i'm not sure if discrete opamps are going to perform optimally within the voltage range of the STX._

 

Yes, that's the correct part. And you can buy 1 (to replace just the lm4562), 2 (to replace the 2 2114's), or 3 (to replace all three opamps).

 I've only got the one installed at the moment, which replaced the lm4562.

 I would really recommend trying to replace the other 2 opamps, too. At least spend the $4 to get a pair of 2134's anyway (which can be found here)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @s2kphile, check your headphone gain settings in the STX ctrl panel. It's probably is set to +18db (which may be higher than ideal, depending on your headphones). _EDIT: Er, ya, what taso said....._


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that's the correct part. And you can buy 1 (to replace just the lm4562), 2 (to replace the 2 2114's), or 3 (to replace all three opamps).

 I've only got the one installed at the moment, which replaced the lm4562.

 I would really recommend trying to replace the other 2 opamps, too. At least spend the $4 to get a pair of 2134's anyway (which can be found here)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @s2kphile, check your headphone gain settings in the STX ctrl panel. It's probably is set to +18db (which may be higher than ideal, depending on your headphones)._

 

yea i will definitely be replacing the 2114's as well. with what though i haven't decided yet. the 2134 add more bass apparently while the 2107's are found to be the more neutral ones. i'm really not looking for quantity so much as quality so adding more bass doesn't sound too great.


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_s2kphile: Send it to a lower impedance setting, press the little toolbox in the Xonar Control Panel._

 

My headphones are rated at 64ohms so it's fine at the setting it's at. I just just adjusted the Left/Right volume in the mixer section of the control panel to 40% it was at 80% originally so thats why it was loud. Now I can turn it up to 50% and it's not extremely loud.


----------



## Mutsu

To all the people who own HD650s, what is your preferred gain setting? 64-300ohms, or 300-600ohms?

 I've not had my STX for long, so haven't tested enough yet to know what I definitely prefer. But right now I'm swinging towards 300-600ohms.


----------



## NGX

The handbook for the HD650s say they support 300 ohms, so I set them to 64-300, and it's more than loud enough.

 In fact, it's too loud (but more lively, in my opinion), so I lowered the master volume in the mixer tab menu.

 Thanks for the tips and help, everyone. I'm going to return the card as defect. I went to where I bought the headphones but they didn't have much of any sound systems so I'll have to test them elsewhere, just to get a better idea of how they _should_ sound with 300-500$ equipment (card was around 300$ but the reviews said it was great value for money


----------



## Loquitotrucho

to the guy with the hissing,

 this may sound stupid but was your mic on with boost and full volume and line in full volume also ?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that's the correct part. And you can buy 1 (to replace just the lm4562), 2 (to replace the 2 2114's), or 3 (to replace all three opamps).
 I've only got the one installed at the moment, which replaced the lm4562._

 

btw, are you sure the LT1361 can be used as I/V converters in place of the 2114?


----------



## s2kphile

Does anyone have instructions on how to remove the EMI shield? Because it doesn't seem like it's in the manual & I don't want to break anything.


----------



## NGX

Folks, I have one more question. When you use your headphones, and a sound suddenly plays, like the one you get in Windows XP when you double-click on a folder to open it; do you hear a clicking noise before the Windows sound effect? The same one you hear when you shift between headphones and speakers. I often get this in applications and games, and it's pretty annoying and adds to my suspicion that something is wrong with the card.

 Also, what are FP Headphone and FP Speakers in the software menu for this card?


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have instructions on how to remove the EMI shield? Because it doesn't seem like it's in the manual & I don't want to break anything._

 

It's secured by 4 screws on the back of the card. They're fairly easy to spot.


----------



## riderforever

I don't know whether it has already been said or not, but on the download section of Asus website a document regarding opamp spec and replacement info is now available.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know whether it has already been said or not, but on the download section of Asus website a document regarding opamp spec and replacement info is now available._

 

Must have been from all the questions I was asking for members regarding Voltage, amperage requirments...
 There was also many questions sent regarding opamps just from me. I would also think many others would be calling tech support or sending in support tickets regarding opamps, this way they can just point to the document.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NGX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, I have one more question. When you use your headphones, and a sound suddenly plays, like the one you get in Windows XP when you double-click on a folder to open it; do you hear a clicking noise before the Windows sound effect? The same one you hear when you shift between headphones and speakers. I often get this in applications and games, and it's pretty annoying and adds to my suspicion that something is wrong with the card.

 Also, what are FP Headphone and FP Speakers in the software menu for this card?_

 

FP=Front Panel. If you have a case that supports front panel audio conenctors and you have the cable connected. USing these FP settings mutes the rear outputs.


----------



## s2kphile

We need to make a list of the exact OPAMPs we used on the STX and the differences.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw, are you sure the LT1361 can be used as I/V converters in place of the 2114?_

 

I don't know with 100% certainty since I don't know what power those sockets are being fed and haven't downloaded the opamp manual from ASUS yet. But I have seen other ppl replace opa2xxx opamps with the lt1361 in other applications so I'm fairly confident it will work. 

 I was going to buy another 1361 anyway as a spare so I figured I might as well get another one to keep my options flexible sinec they're only $6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Guess I'll find out this weekend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




_EDIT: And please share your thoughts on how the STX compares to your Claro+ when the STX arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know with 100% certainty since I don't know what power those sockets are being fed and haven't downloaded the opamp manual from ASUS yet. But I have seen other ppl replace opa2xxx opamps with the lt1361 in other applications so I'm fairly confident it will work. 

 I was going to buy another 1361 anyway as a spare so I figured I might as well get another one to keep my options flexible sinec they're only $6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll find out this weekend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Let us know. So Far I've installed LT 1361 & 2134's. I reallly don't like the 2134 opamps becaus it adds weight lot more bass. I'm gonna go back to the 2114, I can't wait for my other opamps to get here.

 OPA2134 - Adds weight (Bass) Bassheads apply here.


----------



## Alydon

Will do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a sneaking suspicion that using 3x1361's may be a little too bright, though. My instinct tells me that the pair of LT1057's I have coming might be a better match for the 1361 that I already have installed since the 1057's are supposed to have tamer highs and a sweeter midrange. 

 Dang, this opamp rolling is getting addicting!


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a sneaking suspicion that using 3x1361's may be a little too bright, though. My instinct tells me that the pair of LT1057's I have coming might be a better match for the 1361 that I already have installed since the 1057's are supposed to have tamer highs and a sweeter midrange. 

 Dang, this opamp rolling is getting addicting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You telling me. So many combinations and it's hard to find *your own* preference.

 I'm trying to find a warm but lively sound that isn't piercing bright & has tight & clean quality oophm in the lower frequencies.

 EDIT: LT1361/OPA2114 Sounds better then the LT1361/OPA2134 IMO because it doesn't have soo much bass. It sounds a bit cleaner & tighter on the bass side.

 Hey Alydon you think LME49860 & LME49720 would work well in the I/V converter?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You may want to test the OPA2227's as I/V as this opamp hase a more defined bass region then the 2134.

 Opamps become very addicting, I have a very large collection now and I am always looking for more.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may want to test the OPA2227's as I/V as this opamp hase a more defined bass region then the 2134.

 Opamps become very addicting, I have a very large collection now and I am always looking for more._

 

how about the OPA2107? you said they were the most neutral of the bunch, but were they technically also good? by that i mean did you notice any improvement over the 2114 in other areas such as resolution, soundstage etc?


----------



## usf09

To whoever asked, my mic and everything was shut off...I'm RMAing it now, just have to wait a few weeks...hopefully processing is quick...


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You telling me. So many combinations and it's hard to find *your own* preference.

 I'm trying to find a warm but lively sound that isn't piercing bright & has tight & clean quality oophm in the lower frequencies.

 EDIT: LT1361/OPA2114 Sounds better then the LT1361/OPA2134 IMO because it doesn't have soo much bass. It sounds a bit cleaner & tighter on the bass side.

 Hey Alydon you think LME49860 & LME49720 would work well in the I/V converter?_

 

Well, the LME49720 is a rebadged LM4562 so it wouldn't be my first choice. And it seems that the LME49860 needs MORE POWAH than the STX is providing when sitting in the buffer spot so I dunno. But who knows, they might open up in the I/V positions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But then, I don't have much of a formal electronics background so who am I to talk?


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the LME49720 is a rebadged LM4562 so it wouldn't be my first choice. And it seems that the LME49860 needs MORE POWAH than the STX is providing when sitting in the buffer spot so I dunno. But who knows, they might open up in the I/V positions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But then, I don't have much of a formal electronics background so who am I to talk? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats what I figure about the LME49860 needs alot of power to sound killer from what I read. I'm gonna see if I can find a way to get a separate Molex PSU that doesn't cost an arm & leg.

 I'm gonna go ahead and try some more combinations of OPAMPS but I do like the LT1361 in the buffer spot.


----------



## flopper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may want to test the OPA2227's as I/V as this opamp hase a more defined bass region then the 2134.

 Opamps become very addicting, I have a very large collection now and I am always looking for more._

 

why not make a small list of recomendations based on different combinations of opamps for the novices?


----------



## ROBSCIX

There are many people testing this card with new opamps just in this thread alone.


----------



## Dionysus

My Senn HD650 arrive tommorow hope this combo sounds great looking forward to using them over the weekend.

 I also have a Denon AVR4306 looking forward to this I think I will try it in combo with the pure audio mode off the reciver.

 Should be interesting along with my Pioneer BDP51FD BluRay player the Wolfson Dac's on the transport is sweet. So far really happy with the Essence STX should be a fun weekend to play with the new toys


----------



## Shahrose

well i ordered 2xOPA2107's and 1xLT1361 to test with my soon to arrive STX.


----------



## namapemakai

hello guys, i've asked this in another thread but didn't get many replies, so i might ask this in this lively thread.

 does essence stx SPDIF outputs surround sound like Xonar D2X 5.1 analogs?
 if it does, then what are the things that Essence STX lack compared to Xonar D2X? and what are those of D2X compared to Essence STX?

 i kinda got the impression that Essence STX has everything that D2X has to offer and it is better, because it has the headphone features.


----------



## johnston21

This card is 2.0 (no surround), and meant for audiophiles. It's not a gaming card.

 Note that Guru 3d has posted an extensive review on this hardware: http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-x...ce-stx-review/


*Features*
 Dolby Tech: Dolby® Digital Live, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Virtual Speaker, Dolby Pro-Logic II
 DS3D GX 2.5: Direct sound 3D Hardware for Windows Vista and XP
 VocalFX for online Gaming and chatting, Smart Volume, Acoustic Echo Cancelation, Karaoke Functions
 And Flex Bass.
 ASIO 2.0: 44.1K,48K/96K/192KHz@16/24 bit


----------



## Trojan150

Auzentech Home Theater HD may be a better option for surround.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Essence STX has surround through Dolby Digital live using the digital out. It will give you full surround sound over digital similar to other Xonar cards. There are other cards that may be a better option as buying a STX for digital out, would be a serious waste of audio hardware to say the least...
 To note, There is also a internal S/Pdif output for connection to GFX cards for HDMI integrations I would think.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i ordered 2xOPA2107's and 1xLT1361 to test with my soon to arrive STX._

 

Give us your impressions when your done. The 2107's are considered a good quality opamps by many and has impressive specifications.


----------



## namapemakai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnston21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This card is 2.0 (no surround), and meant for audiophiles. It's not a gaming card.

 Note that Guru 3d has posted an extensive review on this hardware: ASUS Xonar Essence STX soundcard review_

 

does that mean 2.0 is better for listening music than 5.1??
 i thought 5.1 surround excels over 2.0 in every aspect, music, gaming, home theater so that for audiophiles it would be reasonable to have 5.1 rather than 2.0. am i wrong?


----------



## namapemakai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Essence STX has surround through Dolby Digital live using the digital out. It will give you full surround sound over digital similar to other Xonar cards. There are other cards that may be a better option as buying a STX for digital out, would be a serioud waste of hardware to say the least...
 To note, There is also a internal S/Pdif output for connection to GFX cards for HDMI integrations I would think._

 

sorry for being noob
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm glad you brought that point up.

 why would using only STX's digital out be a waste? do analog channels deliver far better sound quality compared to digital SPDIF?

 because i think i read somewhere that digital SPDIF delivers louder sound and better quality over normal 5.1 analogs, so that if you have sound card that has SPDIF out it's better to ignore 5.1 jacks and use only that.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *namapemakai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for being noob
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm glad you brought that point up.

 why would using only STX's digital out be a waste? do analog channels deliver far better sound quality compared to digital SPDIF?_

 

This card has very high quality analog output. Great DAC's filters..etc. So buying this card just to use the S/Pdif output would be a serious waste.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *namapemakai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_because i think i read somewhere that digital SPDIF delivers louder sound and better quality over normal 5.1 analogs, so that if you have sound card that has SPDIF out it's better to ignore 5.1 jacks and use only that._

 

In many cases the new modern audio cards can surpass many receivers etc for DAC quality so using a digital connection can be a downgrade in sound quality. Depends on the gear but I have seen many cases where the soundcard gave better sound through analog connected to a receiver then the same setup using the digital connection.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The card had superior DAC's then what was built into the receiver.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And please share your thoughts on how the STX compares to your Claro+ when the STX arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_[/i]

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give us your impressions when your done. The 2107's are considered a good quality opamps by many and has impressive specifications._

 

will do guys. NCIX has these cards on backorder, have to wait another 1-2 weeks probably. My LT1361 have already arrived from Digikey (1 day shipping..wonderful).

 Edit: BTW great review on Guru3D ROBSCIX, i enjoyed reading it.


----------



## draven5494

This may be a little off the current subject, but does anyone know what version of Dolby Headphone the Essence STX currently uses?

 To my knowledge, products like the Astro Mixamp use 2nd Generation Dolby Headphone technology. I wanted to see if the Essence was using the latest as well.


----------



## taso89

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure Dolby Headphone sounded different on the Xonar DX so this may be a newer version.


----------



## Shahrose

i'm wondering why noone has brought up the idea to use 2 x LM4562 for the I/V conversion.


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm wondering why noone has brought up the idea to use 2 x LM4562 for the I/V conversion._

 

i've been op-amp rolling with the essence, as well as with 2 versions of the prodigy hd-2. along with consulting with experts, it seems that the dac outputs usually like fet opamps for the i/v conversion, and the output usually prefers bipolars.

 more iportantly, it is also the case that while opamps are pin compatible if you replaces like with like, ie singles with singles, duals with duals, that some opamps have slightly different circcuit requirements (feedback resistors, ps bypasses, etc,) and that the sonic attributes people associate with specific opamps may have more to do with whether they are functioning correctly in-circuit. (Tube rolling, anyone?)

 also, majkel, who has done enormous work and expended great effort sharing that work with us, and in a non-native language!!!!, can really only report how they differ in the context of a single circuit, or a single system. -- this is in no way meant as a sleight or an insult-- i read his work very carefully and do learn from it- he deserves thanks for taking time away from listeing to post his results.

 i've got some metal can chips on order, along with a slew of brown dog adaptors, so i can handle just about any opamp swap (assuming the browndogs will fit either card-- i hope they do!). i am going to try the 49720 and 49710s and see how they work. according to a former national senior design engineer, you can bend the to-99-8 pins to fit into a dip-8 socket.

 he said the 47913 current feedback chips would work better in the i/v positions, but would require knowing specifics about the feedback and gain setting resistors in place in the circuit-- what are the chances that asus would reveal that info?

 this is a great card, and deserves the best treatment. i recommend the swenson designed linear psu, with a good power cord. bypass caps for the computer's psu, and good vibration control support under the computer also are worthwhile tweeks.

 best regards,

 Mark


----------



## ROBSCIX

Keep us posted of your results.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Hi Robscix
 Great review on Guru3D, it's 18 pages...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Thx, I like to make my reviews in depth.


----------



## NGX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *usf09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To whoever asked, my mic and everything was shut off...I'm RMAing it now, just have to wait a few weeks...hopefully processing is quick..._

 

Are you still around? Can you keep us posted on what feedback you get from Asus?


----------



## Dionysus

ROBSCIX bravo that is one excellent review truly.
 I usually go to the Guru3d for my Video card related fix love that site.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am a new reviewer around there. Glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## sonci

Thanks ROBSIX
 Finally some good review to a sound card, you find thousand of articles on VGA, CPU, Cases and even mices but not audio cards...
 However if you permit, I woud like to see more details of the equipment used in testing, like the pc or even if you try it with an amplifier, 
 The RMAA or even subjective testing, could have been compared to some other card (I wonder how it stands to RME )


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks ROBSIX
 Finally some good review to a sound card, you find thousand of articles on VGA, CPU, Cases and even mices but not audio cards...
 However if you permit, I woud like to see more details of the equipment used in testing, like the pc or even if you try it with an amplifier, 
 The RMAA or even subjective testing, could have been compared to some other card (I wonder how it stands to RME )_

 

Although I already think highly of the review ROB posted, I would like this as well.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I made notes of what I used to test the card.

 Back to the card...


----------



## Bojamijams

Yes indeed, great writeup man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back to the card indeed...


----------



## TehNomad

Does the headphone amp compare with a ~$200 desktop amp like the Millet Starving Student/Hybrid or Little Dot I+?

 I might consider getting one for college next year along with new headphones.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TehNomad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the headphone amp compare with a ~$200 desktop amp like the Millet Starving Student/Hybrid or Little Dot I+?

 I might consider getting one for college next year along with new headphones._

 

Yes it does. In fact, I'd say with upgraded opamps it comes _*very*_ close to the $750 desktop amp (Corda Opera) that I have sitting next to my PC right now.

 ...

 So I've had the weekend now to try out the new opamps that came in. I’ve only had a chance to test these out in the I/V slots, with the LT1361 in the buffer. Here's what I've discovered so far…

*Through the Corda Opera*

*2x LT1361* (making 3 total) – This is an incredibly clear and airy setup. It’s quite bright but not painfully so. The soundstage is huge. But it has a scooped upperbass / lower mids, which makes the beautiful "tubey" sound disappear. Bass goes deep but isn't impactful, sorta like listening to IEM's. Overall not bad, but it sounds unbalanced as it emphasizes treble too much.

*2x opa2134* – This added mid-bass in addition to the upper bass from the 2114. It has better bass control and clarity than the 2114 but it’s still flabby and is too boomy. The overall sound is quite organic though and you get increased clarity as well. The treble is slightly peaky but not scratchy, but it can lose control and sound “bleaty” with highly dynamic recordings. Overall it has better imaging, slightly more air, and better/longer decay than the 2114 as well, although there’s still not a lot of air (though is this is more a feature of the Opera amp I’m using). This’d be a good, cheap upgrade ($2 apiece at Digikey) if you can put up with the overemphasized bass.

*2x LT1057* - Air returned, weight returned. Soundstage is deeper and more 3d than with other opamps except the LT1361 which is still larger. Strong mid presence, but there’s not much on the low end though, bass is not extended very far and rolls off prematurely and is weak overall. It may also be a little too bright around 2-8KHZ, and it can sound piercing on some recordings. Female vocals are strong, but cymbols fizzle and crackle tho and it sounds unsteady, like maybe it’s oscillating? Verdict: I’m not real satisfied with these. Stock 2114’s are better.

*2x LM6172* – First words out of my mouth when I heard these were HOLY CRAP! These honestly take the Essence up to the next level! Jan Meier uses the single-version of this opamp (LM6171) in all of his non-portable amps (including the Opera), and I can see why. With the 6172's installed the level of realism in the sound the STX produces has just gone up a notch. Imaging is astounding, very well focused. Details in the music are revealed that fade off into the distance with the other opamps (except maybe the 3x LT1361 setup). Sound sources are much better defined in space than with the other opamps. Instrumental texture and focus is also increased, as well as well as their weight and body.

 The mids are also Liquid, smoooooooth, very precise and controlled. Very pure sounding, like gold. And the bass is amazing! Bass extension is increased, as well as weight and impact. But at the same time it’s more detailed and controlled than the other opamps I've tried _(EDIT: the 2134 has more bass, but it's boomy, uncontrolled and overdone in comparison.)_. The 6172’s are slightly bass heavy on their own, but the LT1361 as a buffer balances it out quite nicely. These two opamps sync very well together.

 If I had to find something wrong w/ the 6172’s I’d say the last 2% of air and decay is lost due to its superior control. Luckily though the STX has the cure: Turning on the Large/Plain or Medium/Plain settings in the Effects section resolves this. Normally I don’t like using special effects like this, but in this case it’s subtle enough that it works. There is also a slight mid-bass hump around 200-300Hz that colors the sound a bit, much like Sennheiser headphones have, but I see that as a virtue in most cases.

*Through the STX's Headphone-out*

 Using the STX’s HP-out most everything applies just like through the Opera above, except that the headphone out has more air and treble emphasis than my Opera does, but a slightly weaker bass, slightly less detail and a flatter/smaller soundstage overall. Instruments aren’t pulled out into space quite as much either. 

 This means that the LT1361 becomes way too bright and the LT1057 has even less bass than before. So if you’re using the HP-out, neither of these opamps are good choices for the I/V sockets.

 The opa2134 is interesting, though. It isn’t quite as bass-heavy through the HP-out, but it’s still a little boomy. It’s still better than the stock 2114’s, though.

 The LM6172, though…. Again, WOW (can you tell I like these babies?)! The HP-out removes most of the mid-bass hump that I hear through the Opera and returns that "last 2%" of air that was missing. It also loses a little bit of wieght compared to the Opera's sound, and is a little brighter overall, but not so much as to be distracting or unbalancing. Pretty much everything else that I said about these while listening through the Opera still applies though. If you’re planning on using the STX’s HP-out you _*really*_ need to try these. And at $3.63 apiece at Digikey, it’s a no-brainer.

_EDIT: Fixed some typos_


----------



## scytheavatar

Interesting. So does the Opera actually improve the sound from the STX compared to straight from the headphone out? And I'll like to hear your thoughs on 3 X LM6172.


----------



## Bradan

DENON AH-D2000 vs. SENN hd650

 Any consensus for the xonar STX?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. So does the Opera actually improve the sound from the STX compared to straight from the headphone out? And I'll like to hear your thoughs on 3 X LM6172._

 

Yes, the Opera is still an improvement. But it used to be "clearly" better, but now it's only "kinda" better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Opera still has a larger and deeper soundstage, more details, slightly better imaging, a fuller bass with ever-so-slightly better extension, and more weight to the sound than the STX's HP-out. The differences are slight, however. I haven't heard the Cantate (Meier's amp that is/was one step down from the Opera), but I'd be willing to bet that the STX's HP-out is its equal.

 This is all of course to my ears, on my system, YMMV, etc etc... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for using the RCA-outs with 3x LM6172's, I only own 2 of them atm so I can't test it out. I suspect tho that it might have a slightly de-emphasized (I don't want to say rolled-off cuz it's not) treble so as to be less than ideal. I say this because of what the LT1361 currently brings to the table in the buffer socket, being such a bright and airy opamp in general. 

 From my (albeit brief) experience, the LM6171/6172 seems to suffer from a slight lack of air and a slightly truncated decay in general, since my Opera (which uses LM6171's) has a similar issue. But the LT1361 (for the RCA-outs) and the TPA6120A2 (for the HP-out) both seem to have rather sparkly trebles that more than make up for this.


----------



## DarkRegion

Anyone Notice that when you enable Pro Logic IIx with Dolby headphone that the left channel is louder than the right channel?


----------



## d(((--)))b

DarkRegion

 I notice that happen to me when I played crysis. i dont know why it does this. But now I use 7.1 vitual speaker... that makes games sound more realestic..


----------



## greenarrow

I don't think I can connect my 5.1 speakers with this card.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think I can connect my 5.1 speakers with this card._

 

That is correct, not unless your speakers also have a digital input like the Logitech Z5500's or your speakers are hooked up to an external receiver. This card only has 2-channel analog outputs for headphones or 2.1 speakers.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it does. In fact, I'd say with upgraded opamps it comes *very* close to the $750 desktop amp (Corda Opera) that I have sitting next to my PC right now.

 ...

 So I've had the weekend now to try out the new opamps that came in. I’ve only had a chance to test these out in the I/V slots, with the LT1361 in the buffer. Here's what I've discovered so far…

*Through the Corda Opera*

*2x LT1361* (making 3 total) – This is an incredibly clear and airy setup. It’s quite bright but not painfully so. The soundstage is huge. But it has a scooped upperbass / lower mids, which makes the beautiful "tubey" sound disappear. Bass goes deep but isn't impactful, sorta like listening to IEM's. Overall not bad, but it sounds unbalanced as it emphasizes treble too much.

*2x opa2134* – This added mid-bass in addition to the upper bass from the 2114. It has better bass control and clarity than the 2114 but it’s still flabby and is too boomy. The overall sound is quite organic though and you get increased clarity as well. The treble is slightly peaky but not scratchy, but it can lose control and sound “bleaty” with highly dynamic recordings. Overall it has better imaging, slightly more air, and better/longer decay than the 2114 as well, although there’s still not a lot of air (though is this is more a feature of the Opera amp I’m using). This’d be a good, cheap upgrade ($2 apiece at Digikey) if you can put up with the overemphasized bass.

*2x LT1057* - Air returned, weight returned. Soundstage is deeper and more 3d than with other opamps except the LT1361 which is still larger. Strong mid presence, but there’s not much on the low end though, bass is not extended very far and rolls off prematurely and is weak overall. It may also be a little too bright around 2-8KHZ, and it can sound piercing on some recordings. Female vocals are strong, but cymbols fizzle and crackle tho and it sounds unsteady, like maybe it’s oscillating? Verdict: I’m not real satisfied with these. Stock 2114’s are better.

*2x LM6172* – First words out of my mouth when I heard these were HOLY CRAP! These honestly take the Essence up to the next level! Jan Meier uses the single-version of this opamp (LM6171) in all of his non-portable amps (including the Opera), and I can see why. With the 6172's installed the level of realism in the sound the STX produces has just gone up a notch. Imaging is astounding, very well focused. Details in the music are revealed that fade off into the distance with the other opamps (except maybe the 3x LT1361 setup). Sound sources are much better defined in space than with the other opamps. Instrumental texture and focus is also increased, as well as well as their weight and body.

 The mids are also Liquid, smoooooooth, very precise and controlled. Very pure sounding, like gold. And the bass is amazing! Bass extension is increased, as well as weight and impact. But at the same time it’s more detailed and controlled than the other opamps I've tried (EDIT: the 2134 has more bass, but it's boomy, uncontrolled and overdone in comparison.). The 6172’s are slightly bass heavy on their own, but the LT1361 as a buffer balances it out quite nicely. These two opamps sync very well together.

 If I had to find something wrong w/ the 6172’s I’d say the last 2% of air and decay is lost due to its superior control. Luckily though the STX has the cure: Turning on the Large/Plain or Medium/Plain settings in the Effects section resolves this. Normally I don’t like using special effects like this, but in this case it’s subtle enough that it works. There is also a slight mid-bass hump around 200-300Hz that colors the sound a bit, much like Sennheiser headphones have, but I see that as a virtue in most cases.

*Through the STX's Headphone-out*

 Using the STX’s HP-out most everything applies just like through the Opera above, except that the headphone out has more air and treble emphasis than my Opera does, but a slightly weaker bass, slightly less detail and a flatter/smaller soundstage overall. Instruments aren’t pulled out into space quite as much either. 

 This means that the LT1361 becomes way too bright and the LT1057 has even less bass than before. So if you’re using the HP-out, neither of these opamps are good choices for the I/V sockets.

 The opa2134 is interesting, though. It isn’t quite as bass-heavy through the HP-out, but it’s still a little boomy. It’s still better than the stock 2114’s, though.

 The LM6172, though…. Again, WOW (can you tell I like these babies?)! The HP-out removes most of the mid-bass hump that I hear through the Opera and returns that "last 2%" of air that was missing. It also loses a little bit of wieght compared to the Opera's sound, and is a little brighter overall, but not so much as to be distracting or unbalancing. Pretty much everything else that I said about these while listening through the Opera still applies though. If you’re planning on using the STX’s HP-out you *really* need to try these. And at $3.63 apiece at Digikey, it’s a no-brainer.

EDIT: Fixed some typos_

 

The cost of LM6172 opamps does seem like a no brainer at less than $4 dollars a pop you have me convinced to try them nice write up.


----------



## chinesekiwi

So, I'm interested in the LM6172 as well.

 I'm guessing it's the DIP format?

 For a novice, how easy is it to change the opamps?

 Quick pictorial guide maybe?
 Is it as simple as lifting the EMI shield, and taking them in and out as it's designed to be solderless changing.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the Opera is still an improvement. But it used to be "clearly" better, but now it's only "kinda" better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Opera still has a larger and deeper soundstage, more details, slightly better imaging, a fuller bass with ever-so-slightly better extension, and more weight to the sound than the STX's HP-out. The differences are slight, however. I haven't heard the Cantate (Meier's amp that is/was one step down from the Opera), but I'd be willing to bet that the STX's HP-out is its equal.

 This is all of course to my ears, on my system, YMMV, etc etc... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for using the RCA-outs with 3x LM6172's, I only own 2 of them atm so I can't test it out. I suspect tho that it might have a slightly de-emphasized (I don't want to say rolled-off cuz it's not) treble so as to be less than ideal. I say this because of what the LT1361 currently brings to the table in the buffer socket, being such a bright and airy opamp in general. 

 From my (albeit brief) experience, the LM6171/6172 seems to suffer from a slight lack of air and a slightly truncated decay in general, since my Opera (which uses LM6171's) has a similar issue. But the LT1361 (for the RCA-outs) and the TPA6120A2 (for the HP-out) both seem to have rather sparkly trebles that more than make up for this._

 


 mmm...going by this, what would you say is the best combonation:

 Fill in the arrows: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 3x LM6172's?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I'm interested in the LM6172 as well.

 I'm guessing it's the DIP format?

 For a novice, how easy is it to change the opamps?

 Quick pictorial guide maybe?
 Is it as simple as lifting the EMI shield, and taking them in and out as it's designed to be solderless changing._

 

all the questions you asked have been answered previously on this thread. keep up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the single opamp on the left is the L/R Buffer (LM4562) and the 2 on the right are the I/V (current to voltage) converters (2 x JRC2114).
 Alydon tested the STX with the LT1361 in place of the LM4562 and 2xLM6172 in place of the 2 JRC2114's.

 they are all in DIP-8 format, which means they'll be plug and play in the STX. just requires you to push the opamps into the socket, doesn't get much easier. ofcourse you'll have remove the EMI/RFI shield to get to the opamps...but that takes a screwdriver and 30 seconds.

*Also, thanks Alydon for the informative write-up. just what i've been waiting for. need more opamps tested.*


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_all the questions you asked have been answered previously on this thread. keep up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Also, thanks Alydon for the informative write-up. just what i've been waiting for. need more opamps tested.*_

 

Great summary.
 Thanks to Alydon and Shahrose.


----------



## Goit

How does this card compare to the other cards from audiotrak and m audio that also have headphone outs?


----------



## thebathingape

I tried my HD650 on a Xonar Essence STX at work and was quite disappointed. There was just no punch in the sound and for the first time i experienced what i believe people call "the veil" on the HD650. 
 The sound was too up tight and dry. Details seemed muffled and thick. 

 Just writing this for those considering an Essence STX/HD650 combo. I was impressed with the Essence on other headphones (Beyer DT770 pro 32/80, AKG 601, Beyer DT 250) so i wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for those.

 I have only the rig in my sig to compare my experience with the HD650 with, but IMO they need a different caliber amp than what the Essence can deliver.

 (Disregard the info in this post. I didn't notice the impedance setting before trying it).


----------



## Dublo7

Did you try it with an amp?


----------



## thebathingape

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try it with an amp?_

 

Yes like i said in the post. Rig in sig. Darkvoice 336se


----------



## Dublo7

oh, my mistake


----------



## ROBSCIX

That's strange, I know a few guys with HD650's that have tested them with this card and said this was a great combo. You set the card properly for the headphones?


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried my HD650 on a Xonar Essence STX at work and was quite disappointed. There was just no punch in the sound and for the first time i experienced what i believe people call "the veil" on the HD650. 
 The sound was too up tight and dry. Details seemed muffled and thick. 

 Just writing this for those considering an Essence STX/HD650 combo. I was impressed with the Essence on other headphones (Beyer DT770 pro 32/80, AKG 601, Beyer DT 250) so i wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for those.

 I have only the rig in my sig to compare my experience with the HD650 with, but IMO they need a different caliber amp than what the Essence can deliver._

 

Imho I disagree I love the sound of my Senn HD650 Essence STX combo.

 I tried them on my Anthem TLP1/PVA2 which is my only other point of reference, and honestly I like the sound from the Essence more, anyways at the end of the day it’s what your ear likes that counts.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thank you Alydon!!


----------



## thebathingape

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's strange, I know a few guys with HD650's that have tested them with this card and said this was a great combo. You set the card properly for the headphones?_

 

Yes. foobar-wasapi-headphone mode with no effects. Maybe this is the synergy people are talking about regarding HD650/tubes?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Imho I disagree I love the sound of my Senn HD650 Essence STX combo.

 I tried them on my Anthem TLP1/PVA2 which is my only other point of reference, and honestly I like the sound from the Essence more, anyways at the end of the day it’s what your ear likes that counts._

 

Yes there is always that factor. Have you tried your HD650 with a tube amp before?


 Anyone else tested the Essence STX vs tube amps?

 Ill go and have another session with the Essence and double check.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. foobar-wasapi-headphone mode with no effects. Maybe this is the synergy people are talking about regarding HD650/tubes?


 Yes there is always that factor. Have you tried your HD650 with a tube amp before?


 Anyone else tested the Essence STX vs tube amps?

 Ill go and have another session with the Essence and double check._

 



 No I dont have a source with a tube would love to though.


----------



## thebathingape

Gibberish. See post below.


----------



## thebathingape

LOL! I take back all of my statements. I never saw the toolbox in the controlpanel for the Essence where i could adjust the gain settings for different impedance headphones. Now it sounds very very good, although not as smooth as tube but thats a preference of course.

 I will come back with more impressions when i have spent some time with it. Sorry for the misinformation!


----------



## genclaymore

Never mind you saw what I had posted a couple mins ago. Because I was gonna say the same thing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad you got it figured out. Enjoy.


----------



## thebathingape

Hehe thanks. Very impressed that it performs that well. I would rather have the Essence than e.g. the Zero DAC/AMP (i tried the stock one).


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe thanks. Very impressed that it performs that well. I would rather have the Essence than e.g. the Zero DAC/AMP (i tried the stock one)._

 

how does the STX compare as a source to your DAC Magic?


----------



## thebathingape

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does the STX compare as a source to your DAC Magic?_

 

The Essence STX is at work so ill try and take it home and check one of the next days.
 If i was looking for an amp/dac solution for pc use on a semi-budget i wouldn't hesitate to get it though. It is a great product.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Essence STX is at work so ill try and take it home and check one of the next days.
 If i was looking for an amp/dac solution for pc use on a semi-budget i wouldn't hesitate to get it though. It is a great product._

 

Looking forward to the comparison. Initially, I was planning to get the DAC Magic but opted for the STX instead.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried my HD650 on a Xonar Essence STX at work and was quite disappointed. There was just no punch in the sound and for the first time i experienced what i believe people call "the veil" on the HD650. 
 The sound was too up tight and dry. Details seemed muffled and thick. 

 Just writing this for those considering an Essence STX/HD650 combo. I was impressed with the Essence on other headphones (Beyer DT770 pro 32/80, AKG 601, Beyer DT 250) so i wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for those.

 I have only the rig in my sig to compare my experience with the HD650 with, but IMO they need a different caliber amp than what the Essence can deliver.

 (Disregard the info in this post. I didn't notice the impedance setting before trying it)._

 

I use this combo and I have no issue with them.. In fact even though I am not an experience listener. I have noticed new sound in my music that I always missed out before. I listen to alot of live concerts recordings and you can almost guess where the sound of each clappings of audience comes from..


----------



## d(((--)))b

thebathingape

 opppss I did not read your post before I posted.. I am glad you figured it out..


----------



## audionewbieyao

Just saw some people in other computer audio forum call the discussions going on here as "FOTM" with a yawn...
[H]ard|Forum - View Single Post - Asus Xonar Essence STX

 I think audio is subject and easy enough for people to make judgments even never actualy listened to it...


----------



## d(((--)))b

I agree with you.. people always under-estimate the qaulity of the the products they do not own. 

 Me and my best friend always get in to a long disscussion when he over-estimates his Xfi-based 5.1 logetic versus my STX+hd650. 

 He has actaully never listened to any audiophile products..


----------



## chinesekiwi

Maybe Alydon can help me out here when he goes online.
 Anyway, I pretty close to buying some LM6172's for the Essence STX however just one more (maybe dumb) question:
 Do I need any adapters for it or can I just buy the chip and not need to worry about any adapters?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe Alydon can help me out here when he goes online.
 Anyway, I pretty close to buying some LM6172's for the Essence STX however just one more (maybe dumb) question:
 Do I need any adapters for it or can I just buy the chip and not need to worry about any adapters?_

 

You do not need any adapters since it is already in DIP-8 format.


----------



## genclaymore

If there mono channel op-amps like the OPA627Au you just gonna need a thing which let you use Two of them in the one main op-amp socket since the other two is for something esle voltages unless I wrong and another set of op-amps can be socketed into it. But if there stereo op-amps then your fine like shahrose says.


----------



## Megalith

How does this card compare to the Audiophile 192?

 I was researching amps and dacs for my incoming HD-650, but this seems like a great solution that would save me money...


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you.. people always under-estimate the qaulity of the the products they do not own. 

 Me and my best friend always get in to a long disscussion when he over-estimates his Xfi-based 5.1 logetic versus my STX+hd650. 

 He has actaully never listened to any audiophile products.._

 


 I actualy ran into dozen of people just like that. You try to tell them the quailty is higher on this card and they look at you like your card is some onboard mess. or in your case headphone setup which why I stop using my Z5500s and in up stealing the reciver speaker ht speakers to toy with the phones output.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw some people in other computer audio forum call the discussions going on here as "FOTM" with a yawn...
[H]ard|Forum - View Single Post - Asus Xonar Essence STX

 I think audio is subject and easy enough for people to make judgments even never actualy listened to it...



_

 

He has a point though. The STX does not have an amp section that bests $700 amps. Realistically, it would be comparable to DIY amps around $150-250. The DAC IS the primary reason I bought the STX. Nevertheless, it does not make the STX any less of a value, considering that it has a DAC and amp in it that would likely cost $200 each if they were standalone offerings.


----------



## s2kphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He has a point though. The STX does not have an amp section that bests $700 amps. Realistically, it would be comparable to DIY amps around $150-250. The DAC IS the primary reason I bought the STX. Nevertheless, it does not make the STX any less of a value, considering that it has a DAC and amp in it that would likely cost $200 each if they were standalone offerings._

 

Thats why the STX is the best bang for the bucks card for people who can't afford or don't want to spend more then they have to on a separate DAC & amp.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX does not have an amp section that bests $700 amps._

 

More so when some guy comes along claiming it can drive HD650s and any 600-ohm beast you want to hook up to it. Quality, yes. Comparable power to a good desktop amp, or quality exceeding what you could get for $700? No. MAJOR telephone game time.

 Augh! >_<


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More so when some guy comes along claiming it can drive HD650s and any 600-ohm beast you want to hook up to it. Quality, yes. Comparable power to a good desktop amp, or quality exceeding what you could get for $700? No. MAJOR telephone game time.

 Augh! >_<_

 

So you're the gentalman in hardforum.
 To me, seems it is pointless to bite on the idea of $700 worth or not.

 Your argument is only on whether it can drive HD600/HD650 properly or not.
 And guess what, many people happened to found that it IS able to drive them properly. 
 After that, the difference is there albet very small.

 If you still want to compare the value, that willl be too abstract and relying your argument on vendors' pricing policy.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your argument is only on whether it can drive HD600/HD650 properly or not._

 

Not so much that, as that the statement "it can drive everything, even hard-to-drive phones, as well as a high-end discrete amp" is false. Which I don't think should be very controversial.

 As to the Sennies, there's plenty of stuff around here about people using lower-power amps and other people calling those people crazy for underamping them. People like what they like. It's the hyper-generalization I took issue with.

 But really, I'm too tired to get into this all over again - it's been a long day and I was up half the night yesterday finishing a research paper, so...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He has a point though. The STX does not have an amp section that bests $700 amps. Realistically, it would be comparable to DIY amps around $150-250. The DAC IS the primary reason I bought the STX. Nevertheless, it does not make the STX any less of a value, considering that it has a DAC and amp in it that would likely cost $200 each if they were standalone offerings._

 

We have a winrar of a post here.
 Exactly my thoughts. For value, the Essence STX is fantastic but it's headphone amp is of a low-end one.


----------



## scytheavatar

Shahrose, ashmedai and chinesekiwi, perhaps you should share with us your STX experience. What "good desktop amp" at the $700 price range have you heard that is clearly superior to the STX, and in what way are they superior?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If there mono channel op-amps like the OPA627Au you just gonna need a thing which let you use Two of them in the one main op-amp socket since the other two is for something esle voltages unless I wrong and another set of op-amps can be socketed into it. But if there stereo op-amps then your fine like shahrose says._

 

It is dual-voltage so it should be okay.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shahrose, ashmedai and chinesekiwi, perhaps you should share with us your STX experience. What "good desktop amp" at the $700 price range have you heard that is clearly superior to the STX, and in what way are they superior?_

 

Not in the $700 price range, but I've tried the Little Dot MKV and the Headfive on the Essence STX.

 The internal headphone amp is comparable to the Headfive, but both have different properties, the Headfive boosting the mids a bit more while the internal headphone amp = quite transparent. 

 Versus the MKV, the MKV has far more detail, bigger and more depth in the soundstage, better impact across the spectrum but it is most noticeable in the bass, deeper bass....

 I can tell to a certain extent how close to the mic the person is speaking with the MKV whilst I couldn't as much with the internal headphone amp nor the Headfive.

 I'm using '03 DT880's.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shahrose, ashmedai and chinesekiwi, perhaps you should share with us your STX experience. What "good desktop amp" at the $700 price range have you heard that is clearly superior to the STX, and in what way are they superior?_

 

Never claimed it was, never heard it, my only involvement is to the effect of claiming that there's no way it can even get the power necessary to outclass a decent $700+ dedicated headphone amp when handling high-demand phones.

 If any electrical engineers with better knowledge of ATX power supplies and the PCI-E standard want to correct me, I'd be very interested to hear it. But I'm pretty sure those hot, bulky dedicated amps are hot and bulky for a reason. I think it's because they need to be. And I'd be surprised if the STX can come down from the heavens and do something which hitherto this moment I've always understood to be an unreasonable goal. I figure it's a bit bigger than your average portable amp, connected to a computer's DC rails, so the results should be consistent with that. If not, everybody would be doing it, or it would be priced a lot higher.

 My MkIV from my cold, dead hands. Or maybe after I get an upgrade.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Versus the MKV, the MKV has far more detail, bigger and more depth in the soundstage, better impact across the spectrum but it is most noticeable in the bass, deeper bass...._

 

In this case the Essence was used as source only (through RCAs), or your amp was connected to something else?


----------



## BigTrouble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never claimed it was, never heard it, my only involvement is to the effect of claiming that there's no way it can even get the power necessary to outclass a decent $700+ dedicated headphone amp when handling high-demand phones._

 

Chaos, boys. Comparing class A/B with Class D, or comparing a stand along amp to a sound card will lead us nowhere near being constructive at all.

 Have we been missing the point? Headphone amp is just a a apart of Essence STX (anybody still remember it's a sound card?). If you're crazy about stand along you can use Essence STX as an excellent line level source. 

 I'll bet at least 50% of Xonar Essence STX owners seldomly use the amp but still think it's an excellent card.

 What's more, I believe in Rob's review on Guru3D has shown the card's drawing power from PSU for analig signals, not mobo. Even seen this design on other sound cards?


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTrouble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's more, I believe in Rob's review on Guru3D has shown the card's drawing power from PSU for analig signals, not mobo. Even seen this design on other sound cards?_

 

That would seem to be the intelligent way to do it when you've got a secondary power connector, yes. AFAIK the digital stuff wouldn't even have anything to use it for, possibly barring some really intense DSP work.

 I vaguely remember a couple other models with a secondary power connector, but it's been a while so I'm fuzzy on which those would be. Might also bear looking into some of the Audigy models with breakout boxes - those have a separate power connection IIRC and may well house a slightly beefier amplification stage.

 I think one of the nicer, if more subtle, features to the card is the ability to keep the L & R channels separate and maintain a higher resultant S/N. At least, if I was going to bother with a sound card for 2.0 work, that would be a point of interest.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In this case the Essence was used as source only (through RCAs), or your amp was connected to something else?_

 

Source only via RCAs with cheap interconnects.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Again, for the record the Essence STX takes ONLY logic signals from the PCI-E bus. All power requirments for the analog amplification section are taken from the Molex connector.

 The arguments, if this is better then that; which is not as good as this, is a waste of time and totally subjective....


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The arguments, if this is better then that; which is not as good as this, is a waste of time and totally subjective...._

 

I agree with you, but it is also the only way that normal people has to decide which product to buy -> reading reviews and owners comments


----------



## ROBSCIX

Point taken. I am refering to the arguments that get started because somebody says this new device sounds as good or better then something another owns and they or others disagree without even hearing the devices in question. Some may agree or totally disagree hearing the same devices as this is subjective.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Point taken. I am refering to the arguments that get started because somebody says this new device sounds as good or better then something another owns and they or others disagree without even hearing the devices in question. Some may agree or totally disagree hearing the same devices as this is subjective._

 



 Agreed.... I just finish making a post regarding whether or not the STX can drive a pair of HD650 people say the STX can’t drive the HD650.
 What?!
 Seriously as an owner of this setup I know for a fact that the STX can drive the Senn HD650 it is quite annoying to read.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure. I know a few guys with this setup. 

 Back to my opamp testing.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously as an owner of this setup I know for a fact that the STX can drive the Senn HD650 it is quite annoying to read._

 

Okay. I'd still love to see stuff like a power-impedance graph etc that quantitatively speaks to how well they can do it. It's not really a can they / can't they problem. Unless it's so far into "can't they" that you can't get any useful sound at all, which we already knew isn't the case.

 Or could you be more explicit/detailed than "yes they can"?

 To try to get into some numbers; the Vpp on an M^3 (for a random easy-to-find example) is 24V, while the highest you're getting from that supplemental molex connector is 12V. Current should be less of a problem since there is usually 10-12A or more to play with (noting that you need to avoid using a large fraction of it to avoid screwing with disk drives etc). Also you lose some because the card probably needs to filter the power it's getting to some degree. If I'm remembering my electronics right, things like the K701 are more picky about current while others like the HD650 are more picky about voltage (in each case noting that not enough of the other will still suck). So we have abundant current but kinda meh voltage. Power, we could install an arbitrarily higher capacity power supply, but from a marketing standpoint you probably should assume you're working with the leftovers after everything else gets its pickings which may or may not impose further limits.

 As you can see, I'm a bit skeptical - have explained my reasons for taking a skeptical view of blanket claims that "yes it works" - and am looking for some more specific information to back it up. If you're just going off what sounds good to you, great, and I'm happy for you, but I still hope someone with the specific knowledge and the electronics experience can help clarify this one way or another. I have just enough to have reason to be very skeptical, not enough to nail down the answer.


----------



## gyrodec

The TPA6120 that drives the headphone socket is on +/- 12v rails, so that's 24Vpp just like the M^3. So, from a volatge point of view, this thing is very much a real desktop level headphone amp. 

 As for power limits due to "working with the leftovers after everything else gets its pickings which may or may not impose further limits" - thats just rubbish. The power you can draw, cleanly and easily, from that molex connector is huge. That is the same power connector the 100 wat graphics cards get power through, so there really won't be any sane limit to power draw.

 I've not heard it, so I'm not saying its better than an M^3, or even as good - BUT, it can swing as many volts and it does have access to any current it needs. Do a little research before getting technical with the FUD.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The TPA6120 that drive the headphone socket is on +/- 12v rails, so that's 24Vpp just like the M^3. So, from a volatge point of view, this thing is very much a real desktop level headphone amp._

 

See, that's what I thought at first. But when I went to look it, the wires are listed as +12V, GND, GND, +5V. The +/-12V appears to just be on the motherboard's connector. Yeah, I looked it up on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia can quite easily be wrong. If you know better, please correct me, and the Wikipedia page as well if you're feeling contributory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hmm. You know what I didn't check was the PCI-E bus supply. People were saying that the amp went entirely off the molex supplemental power, and it seemed reasonable for that to be true. Maybe it wasn't entirely?

 --> Okay, a 1x PCI-E connection only supplies +3.3 and +12V from what I saw. So I have no idea where it would get access to -12V at this point.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for power limits due to "working with the leftovers after everything else gets its pickings which may or may not impose further limits" - thats just rubbish. The power you can draw, cleanly and easily, from that molex connector is huge. That is the same power connector the 100 wat graphics cards get power through, so there really won't be any sane limit to power draw._

 

Possibly, but not clearly so (to me) based on your objection. Say you have a 450W supply, it can consistently supply 60% of that, the CPU wants 100W, the GPU wants 100W, you have a few hard drives that maybe want an amp between them...it adds up (to make up some numbers). You do *not* have the full supply capacity to play with (which is certainly substantial to begin with), in fact you have some rather small fraction. If you try to draw more than that, I assume it will either fail or screw with the other parts in the system.

 I'd bet the remainder is still pretty substantial in many cases, but many systems with high-powered graphics cards end up with under-spec power supplies or ones that barely meet the recommended spec. So I don't think the result that an addon card has to play with safely is that large compared to the initial capacity. But - what does it need, and what is left? For reference, a number of speakers work quite merrily off of 10W or less, so I would expect even high demand phones to be in that neighborhood or lower. Obviously it's enough to do a passable job of driving phones like the HD650, because it makes sound when you plug it in. The big question is - what is the numerical difference between working and working well, and how does that compare to the leftovers you can reasonably work with?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've not heard it, so I'm not saying its better than an M^3, or even as good_

 

I certainly wouldn't expect it to be; as I mentioned it just has easy to access specs and I was reasonably confident no one would dispute the M^3 being "big enough" for most things.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BUT, it can swing as many volts and it does have access to any current it needs. Do a little research before getting technical with the FUD._

 

Yeah, there's still that Vpp thing (I think). I like technical answers because they're reliable. And I give technical reasons for my skepticism because it helps me define my objections and makes it easy for people to confirm or refute them in a concrete way that lets me know whether my objections were valid or invalid.

 Thanks, I'd really like to get a clear idea on how this works one way or another.


----------



## gyrodec

This card gets no power from the bus, only from the molex. It used internal circuitry to create +/- 12v lines from the +12v comming from the molex. There are standard parts and circuits for this. I don't know how they work, but its common stuff.

 To get an idea, the HD580/600/650 all max out at about 300mW, i.e. a third of a watt. Even the most many of low impedance phones take no more than 1 to 1.5W. I measured the voltage on my HD600 while listening quite loudly and it was 150mV, so thats 0.075mW. Even if you are pushing you power supply hard, the hesadphone amp will not be any meaningful load.

 There are aspects to immediate current drive capacity which have nothing to do with the PC PSU, but the local storage capacitors on the baord, and more importantly, by the TPA chip itself. These are more critical to driving headphones than the PC PSU. I have no idea if the STX is well designed in that area, but it most likely is.


----------



## ashmedai

Hmm. So maybe the primary problem is the response to load rather than the static supply properties. That makes a lot of sense, actually - larger amps have much more _room_ for large caps and transformers and so forth for fiddling with the power to get a clean supply and adequate reserve energy. Some of that you can maybe chalk up to choice of cap type, use of analog vs digital solutions...not an easy problem without a lot of electronics background, eh? But I'd think the size limitations would impose major constraints there even if the input power doesn't. Whether those are constraints you can work around or not...well, I'd like to know, but I'm not entirely sure what to ask.

 I suppose I'm looking for a scientific basis for a simpler and mostly economic objection. Given that "sound cards suck for hi-fi" and that this is at the same price point as sound card mfrs have been targeting for years and years, how can it suddenly do what they couldn't? Are we just chalking this up to mfrs not bothering to market to us before? While a certain cynicism would support that, I'd like to think there's more to it. Is it "so easy" to build a part like this at that price point but no one bothered? Is there an engineering trick to it that no one tried before? Are the claims (other than the >> $700 amp telephone game thing) true about its capabilities and quality, and there are other equally good cards out there that we just haven't noticed? The "and suddenly there was an awesome card that does all the things sound cards stereotypically are inadequate at" explanation just feels really, really incomplete. Either it's wrong in some way, or we're (I'm) missing something that makes the picture fit together.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose I'm looking for a scientific basis for a simpler and mostly economic objection. Given that "sound cards suck for hi-fi" and that this is at the same price point as sound card mfrs have been targeting for years and years, how can it suddenly do what they couldn't?_

 

Because this is one of the first audio cards aimed specifically for headphone performance? Because Asus really knows how to get good sound on their sound card? Because it's using parts like Nichicon gold capacitors that's not even found on many of the high end amplifiers?


----------



## audionewbieyao

Urr.. have you thoroughly read the data sheet of TPA6120A2 from TI? 
 Sorry i don't know how to past the image in PDF file, but here's the link:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf

 TI has listed charts you want from page 5, the Typical Charactics section.

 All the charts shows the audio quality of THDN's in relation to the output voltage and many other power consumption/quality related information, and they all look pretty impressive to me.

 I think it could be useful to your questions.


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because this is one of the first audio cards aimed specifically for headphone performance?_

 

Okay, but why? I raised the "maybe no one bothered before" question myself, but I still think it's a relatively weak answer.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because Asus really knows how to get good sound on their sound card?_

 

And no one else does or did until now?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because it's using parts like Nichicon gold capacitors that's not even found on many of the high end amplifiers?_

 

MagicCaps syndrome FTW...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the data sheet of TPA6120A_

 

Nice data sheet. Chip appears to be from 2004. If this is part of the answer - has any other product used this thing in the last five years, and with what results?


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, but why? I raised the "maybe no one bothered before" question myself, but I still think it's a relatively weak answer._

 

In case you haven't realized, the sound cards from Creative, etc are targeted primarily for the gaming community and the priority is to ensure top gaming performance, not top audio quality. And yes, no one bothered to get audiophile quality on their sound card, because they don't care about audiophiles. 

 The argument is pointless, are you going to get your hands on a STX or not? If not please do us a favour and stay away from this thread, I think it's fair to say that the STX's headphone out wouldn't be as good as $700 amps, but to say that the STX wouldn't be better than other sound cards despite all the reasons we have given is unreasonable. Apparently you who have never heard the STX knows how it sounds better than those who have already gotten their hands on it, who are near unanimous in calling it the best sounding sound card ever...


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In case you haven't realized, the sound cards from Creative, etc are targeted primarily for the gaming community and the priority is to ensure top gaming performance, not top audio quality. And yes, no one bothered to get audiophile quality on their sound card, because they don't care about audiophiles._

 

Most, sure. But are you seriously trying to tell me that there is *not one* time where anyone has tried to make a card for any market that isn't? Including cards intended for pro audio work?

 Hell, I know one case where there was a motherboard with a tube stage onboard. Don't tell me it's the only time anyone's tried to sell to us. Not if you aren't prepared to back it up better than that, anyway.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The argument is pointless, are you going to get your hands on a STX or not? If not please do us a favour and stay away from this thread, I think it's fair to say that the STX's headphone out wouldn't be as good as $700 amps, but to say that the STX wouldn't be better than other sound cards despite all the reasons we have given is unreasonable. Apparently you who have never heard the STX knows how it sounds better than those who have already gotten their hands on it, who are near unanimous in calling it the best sounding sound card ever..._

 

Okay, that's a pusher's argument, the old "no one can understand until they try it" used to bully reason out of the way to sell drugs and religion. It doesn't really clarify anything, and makes it sound like you don't have anything better to support it. And to boot you're putting words into my mouth, and off-track from at least what I'm wondering about.

 If it's really head-and-shoulders above every other product ever, I would love to know how and why, not just be told "everyone's doing it, you can't understand until you do it too"...because that's just crap.


----------



## jenneth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because this is one of the first audio cards aimed specifically for headphone performance?_

 

HT Omega Claro Halo was released a few months before the Essence.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And yes, no one bothered to get audiophile quality on their sound card, because they don't care about audiophiles._

 

Onkyo SE-200 PCI LTD/SE-200 PCI, HT Omega Claro Halo, just to name a few...

 .................

 As for the Essence itself, couldn't we just agree that this sound card offers a level of price/performance ratio that's unmatched in the current market today? As for how good, it's unlikely that it can match a $700 HP Amp, but then again, it doesn't have to.

 Personally, I'm just glad that companies like ASUS, Auzentech, and HT Omega are continue putting in efforts into making more advanced sound cards.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most, sure. But are you seriously trying to tell me that there is *not one* time where anyone has tried to make a card for any market that isn't? Including cards intended for pro audio work?

 Hell, I know one case where there was a motherboard with a tube stage onboard. Don't tell me it's the only time anyone's tried to sell to us. Not if you aren't prepared to back it up better than that, anyway._

 

I have already given you the reason why the STX sounds better than the other sound cards: the parts used by the STX is superior to what that's used by the other sound cards. Cutting costs by using cheaper parts is commonplace. If you think that cheaper parts doesn't have a negative effect on the sound quality, you are being unreasonable. And the STX will sound better than portable amps too, because portable amps are battery powered which is a huge limitation.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jenneth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, I'm just glad that companies like ASUS, Auzentech, and HT Omega are continue putting in efforts into making more advanced sound cards._

 

I'm with you Jenneth.

 So Ashmedai, 
 have you dig into TPA6210 datasheet?
 Do you mind share with us since we are not that literate in elecrotniics.
 Much appreciated.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Yeah, I almost overlooked those quality parts other than TPA6120, they are definitely great help in making sounds from Xonar Essence STX surperior than others.


 But OTOH, if Ashmedai's sole concern is about power only, then the queston may need to be tweaked into like 

 Q: Suppose TI TPA6210 is capable of properly drive headphones up to 600ohm, such as HD600/HD650 etc., then was Xonar Essence STX properly designed to meet TPA6120's requirements in order to generate best performance?"

 What do you think, Ashmedai?


----------



## ashmedai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mind share with us since we are not that literate in elecrotniics.
 Much appreciated._

 

I'm in the middle somewhere, which you might notice as I'm learning some of this stuff in this very thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been told though that the surrounding circuit often has a larger impact on a number of things. It certainly should be more important in determining power availability and its derivatives with respect to time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I almost overlooked those quality parts other than TPA6120, they are definitely great help in making sounds from Xonar Essence STX surperior than others._

 

They're important, but there are always companies marketing their "solid Japanese caps" and so forth. It can't always be just marketing. And caps aren't magic devices either; many of the brands that get bandied about are ones builders use primarily because they're cheap and readily available parts that are still suitable to the application.

 If the reason is that the part choices create a finished product that can do things no other could - were other engineers making bad choices, and how did Asus get all the competent ones? or did something drastic change in the available parts to choose from? or is Asus manufacturing this with a much lower profit margin than usual (itself begging the question of why $300 cards couldn't do it if $200 couldn't)?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But OTOH, if Ashmedai's sole concern is about power only, then the queston may need to be tweaked into like_

 

My concern is that some very bold claims were made based on subjective and second-hand accounts. I want to know to what degree they're factual, and what it means for this and other similar devices.

 And this is completely aside from the DAC section. "This sound card has an awesome DAC section" - okay, that's a reasonable claim that can equally apply to other products, so that's all fine and good. "This card has a super-awesome amp that can do things no other amp can do"...okay, starting to sound a little questionable, especially in the light of the number of wild claims and distorted second-hand accounts running around. No doubt there's a kernel of truth in there too, but the telephone game bit gets in the way of pinning it down.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Q: Suppose TI TPA6210 is capable of properly drive headphones up to 600ohm, such as HD600/HD650 etc., then was Xonar Essence STX properly designed to meet TPA6120's requirements in order to generate best performance?"_

 

My next question if we can show that it _really is all that_ would be: what's wrong with all the other amps and sound cards we've been buying until now?


----------



## audionewbieyao

My quick answer to your questions:
 1. Laziness: the sole dominant player is Creative, and we all know they are merely rebranding old stuff to cash on te EAX thing, there is no true audio quality fine changes found on their old and new cards, they don't even bother to use marketing gimmics on audio quality side...
 2. Cost: quality component cost, and audo market is small, so they either have to make it very expansive or resort to chip components

 I think Asus picked a good price for some reasons:
 1. Econ is bad now, fewer PC builder has cash to spend now
 2. Size: Asus is big, they got advantage on acquiring quality component with lower cost
 3. Market: they want expand in this market faster...

 They are my guess above. haha.. 
 Feel free to discuss...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Has anybody tested with a Discrete opamp yet?
 Such as the Sun, moon, Earth?


----------



## Wartank

I have a question, im unable to change the volume via the taskbar icon on the bottom right. however i can change the volume thru the essence audio center knob. is this a bug or is it normal?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody tested with a Discrete opamp yet?
 Such as the Sun, moon, Earth?_

 

Not yet, but Majkel's discrete opamp review thread has gotten me interested in trying at least one of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It also gave me a few other opamps to try...

 Speaking of which, I found another opamp that is quite good in the STX's buffer slot: the LT1364.

 It's quite similar in tonality to the LT1361 (not surprising since their specs are so similar), but it has more control, detail and presence in the base region at the expense of a bit of air and treble energy on the high end. 

 I'm having trouble deciding which one I like better in the buffer spot. One the one hand the LM6172's in the I/V spots do need to beautiful airiness that the LT1361 provides. But that extra bass body and definition the LT1364's bring is very seductive. The 1364's also have better control over the music as a whole, and the sound overall seems more refined than the lt1361 which can sound a bit loose at times. If I could find an opamp that the best features of both I'd be a happy man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also took things a step further and pulled the 2 opa637's out of my Corda Blue and put them in the output stage of my Opera to see if that'd help sway my decision. It didn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 637's open up the soundstage a bit more than the LM6171's that are in there as stock, and they have a nice, clear treble that is less "hissy" and more refined than the LT1361's, but bass presence - and more importantly, extension - was hurt badly, even with the LT1364 in the STX's buffer.

 So these 2 setups:
STX (LT1361 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x Lm6171)
STX (LT1364 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x Lm6171)

 Are better than these 2 setups:
STX (LT1361 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x OPA637)
STX (LT1364 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x OPA637)

 Make sense?


 @WarTank, I have WinXP SP2 and am using the drivers that came on the CD (haven't tried the new ones on the website yet), and I can adjust the volume by using either the Windows volume control or the STX control panel. And when both panels are open, if I move one the other moves in sync with it.


----------



## ashmedai

It sounds like a good idea, but you'd need to be careful to mount it so as to relieve strain and to prevent it from shorting against anything.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, I have both the LT1361 and 1364 on order. I have also been reading some spec sheets on a few others.

 The discrete units may be something I might also look at for the final buffer stage.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ashmedai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like a good idea, but you'd need to be careful to mount it so as to relieve strain and to prevent it from shorting against anything._

 


 You can get them with extension wires. This would allow you to put the circuit on the bottom of the case. You don't need to worry about strain or shorting out against another card.


----------



## ashmedai

Against another card, no. Against the case, possibly. If you go that route it might be good to put something nonconductive under it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, thx. I am sure I will figure it out. If I decide to use one at all.


----------



## scytheavatar

Has anyone tried any of the Analog Device op-amps on the STX yet? I am interested to see if it's possible to put in the AD797.


----------



## Alydon

AD797's are single channel opamps, so they will probably work since 24V is w/in their input range (10-30V) but you'd need an adapter. I was thinking about getting a set but they're $8+ apiece, so 4 of them plus 2 adapters and shipping is pushing 50 bucks... 

 I might get 2 to try in my Opera, though. If I do get them I'll try 'em in the STX's buffer spot too.


----------



## scytheavatar

Have you tried 2 X LT1364 at the I/V? How does the headphone out sound with them?


----------



## Alydon

*I Said:*
  Quote:


 Nope, I only own 1. I suspect the LM6172's are better in that spot, though. The differences between the 1364 and 1361 are relatively minor, and the 1361 wasn't real good in the I/V sockets (way too bright, not much low end impact). 
 


 EDIT: I'm retracting the above statement. Now that I've had a chance to compare the two with more music, I'm noticing more differences between the two. I think I prefer the 1364 over the 1361 in the buffer. 

 The 1361 may have more treble energy, but the 1364 still manages to pull out more _details_ in the music. 3d imaging (which if you hadn't noticed is a big deal for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) is improved, and sound sources are more coherent in space than the 1361. 

 What really sold me though was the soundstage. The 1364 made it much deeper than I've heard it before, and instruments that used to play "in my head" or above me are now occupying space _in front_ of me at varying angles and at easily distinguishable differing distances from me and each other. My headphones have been starting to disappear on several tracks, something which really hasn't happened much before. I love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So to re-answer your question scythe, no, I haven't tried 2x 1364's in the I/V spots yet. However, I'm ordering a second 1364 tonight so I can try it out...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I Said:*



 EDIT: I'm retracting the above statement. Now that I've had a chance to compare the two with more music, I'm noticing more differences between the two. I think I prefer the 1364 over the 1361 in the buffer. 

 The 1361 may have more treble energy, but the 1364 still manages to pull out more details in the music. 3d imaging (which if you hadn't noticed is a big deal for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) is improved, and sound sources are more coherent in space than the 1361. 

 What really sold me though was the soundstage. The 1364 made it much deeper than I've heard it before, and instruments that used to play "in my head" or above me are now occupying space in front of me at varying angles and at easily distinguishable differing distances from me and each other. My headphones have been starting to disappear on several tracks, something which really hasn't happened much before. I love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So to re-answer your question scythe, no, I haven't tried 2x 1364's in the I/V spots yet. However, I'm ordering a second 1364 tonight so I can try it out... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Alydon, just wanted to offer a suggestion if I may. I've found that the further one tweaks the sounds, the more one loses touch with the default sound and whether the tweaked sound is even better than the original. Right now it'd be interesting to see if you hear any decrease in SQ once you switch back to the default opamps, and therein lies my request. 

 Enjoyed reading your impressions btw. Hopefully I'll get some time to roll opamps as well.


----------



## Bojamijams

Does anyone have a Denon D2000 or D5000 they can test with this card and its HP out? 

 The harshness with my (basically) LA2000 HP's is driving me nuts. The rest of the sound is fantastic but the highs can cause me serious head pain after only 5 minutes with some types of music. I need to know if its just the synergy thats off between these two (STX and D2000/D5000) or something else


----------



## Shahrose

Ok, so I've been waiting for the card to burn-in to post my impressions. I think it's been long enough. I'm using the RCA Line-out to feed an M^3 amp (see sig). I tested with FLAC/320kbps MP3's through Foobar2000 0.9.6.2 WASAPI 24-bit enabled. 24/96khz was selected in the Windows soundcard properties. Headphones used were the DT990 Pro and the HD650. My computer PSU is the Corsair 520HX.

 In short, there is a noticeable increase in SQ over the HT Omega Claro Plus+, and every other soundcard I've owned (see profile). The soundstage is very large, and it's the first thing you notice. The sound is very holographic and layered and several times during the course of my testing, I had to check if my speakers were on. This happens with me sometimes, but with the STX the effect was occurring much more frequently...which is a good thing.

 The second thing I noticed was that the STX had a smooth sound, there was no hint of harshness that I've encountered in every soundcard thus far (the Prelude got close to this smoothness, but not quite). The card is also not as bassy as my previous Claro Plus+ but the bass is noticeably tighter and more well defined. Surprisingly, although there's slightly less bass on the STX, it his more impact and slam than the Claro Plus+. I think this is a result of the quicker transients I'm hearing on the STX as well as the faster attack. I have both cards installed and tested them side by side for the assurance that these differences are real and not placebo. In fact, the differences aren't just real, they're clearly audible.

 As a result of the smoother and more neutral sound, the midrange and thus, voices, are more prominent and there's a better sense of space around voices.
 I'm also pleased to report that the background is completely black with the soundcard + amp volume maxed out.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so I've been waiting for the card to burn-in to post my impressions. I think it's been long enough. I'm using the RCA Line-out to feed an M^3 amp (see sig).

 In short, there is a noticeable increase in SQ over the HT Omega Claro Plus+, and every other soundcard I've owned (see profile). The soundstage is very large, and it's the first thing you notice. The sound is very holographic and layered and several times during the course of my testing, I had to check if my speakers were on. This happens with me sometimes, but with the STX the effect was occurring much more frequently...which is a good thing.

 The second thing I noticed was that the STX had a smooth sound, there was no hint of harshness that I've encountered in every soundcard thus far (the Prelude got close to this smoothness, but not quite). The card is also not as bassy as my previous Claro Plus+ but the bass is noticeably tighter and more well defined. I have both cards installed and tested them side by side for the assurance that these differences are real and not placebo. In fact, the differences aren't just real, they're clearly audible.

 As a result of the smoother and more neutral sound, the midrange and thus, voices, are more prominent and there's a better sense of space around voices.
 I'm also pleased to report that the background is completely black with the soundcard + amp volume maxed out._

 

I had the same impression of the card coming from the Xfi-Music Extreme. I have a Paradigm Millenia 300 setup in my living room but I cant fully enjoy them all the time for various reasons.
 So I set out to try and find a good setup that would come close to the Paradigm’s without interrupting anyone around me, and the HD650 combo with this card has giving me exactly what I set out to find. By the way what software are you using for playback. thx for your impressions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dionysus, Your enjoying the HD650's with the Essence STX?
 Are you having any difficulties powering the HD650's with the STX?
 I am just asking for verification as some seem to have trouble accepting the fact that the STX can power the HD650s properly and with great sonic quality.

 For my player, I use Winamp.


----------



## Goit

How close is your card to the video card?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way what software are you using for playback. thx for your impressions._

 

I mentioned that in my impressions post. Foobar2000 0.9.6.2.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Goit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How close is your card to the video card?_

 

There is literally 1cm between the Essence STX and my 8800GT + Zalman VF1000 cooler.


----------



## Goit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 There is literally 1cm between the Essence STX and my 8800GT + Zalman VF1000 cooler._

 

When I plugged in a card that close, there were EMI distortions.

 Even if the Asus one is shielded, won't the heat from the video card make the sound card too hot? Because unless you use water coolers, the heatsink becomes very hot.


----------



## Dionysus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Dionysus, Your enjoying the HD650's with the Essence STX?
 Are you having any difficulties powering the HD650's with the STX?
 I am just asking for verification as some seem to have trouble accepting the fact that the STX can power the HD650s properly and with great sonic quality.

 For my player, I use Winamp._

 

I don’t have any issue's driving my HD650 just set the Impedance properly. I believe it's 300-600 ohm. I usually set my volume 3 quarters of the way up, and its loud real loud but with excellent sq excellent detail etc.
 By the way I have read some of the posts with regards to the STX/650, and I have responded the HD650/STX combo is the real deal. 

 I also tried the HD595 but they seemed over matched by STX so I return them to JR. The moment the HD650 arrived, without burn in it was like now that’s what I was searching for the detail of the mids the tight base, and the crisp highs all came to life.
 I’ am thoroughly enjoying the combo again if anyone is sitting on the fence you will not be disappointed.


----------



## Dionysus

I use the PCI-E 16x slot the pci-ex1 is to close to the video card to install.

 The pci-ex16 is fine and works well for me since I dont have a crossfire or sli setup. My gtx295 plays well with this setup and my Ultra 800w ps is great.


----------



## Goit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the PCI-E 16x slot the pci-ex1 is to close to the video card to install.

 The pci-ex16 is fine and works well for me since I dont have a crossfire or sli setup. My gtx295 plays well with this setup and my Ultra 800w ps is great._

 

So you have to have an SLI card with one video card to install the thing? That seems a very expensive option. I mean even with an SLI board if you have 2 cards, or quad SLI board if you have 4 cards, then there will again be no room to install it.


----------



## Dionysus

Goit... at the time when I made the mobo purchase I wanted the stable Intel platform for multi gpu's I had a dual 4850 setup ATI. over the last month or so I switched to Nvidia because of ATI CAT driver issues. So It wasnt a waste of money I now have better performance and stablity with the card switch plus the slot to still facilitate a dedicated Audio card.


----------



## twhtpclover

Is there any one from Taiwan here?
 Anyone know where i can get it in Taiwan?

 It's ridiculous that Asus is a Taiwan company and no carrier is taking this baby here.


----------



## Wartank

what settings are you guys mostly using? ie. only dolby headphones on or dolby headphones + 7.1 shifter on or just pure hi-fi mode?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wartank* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what settings are you guys mostly using? ie. only dolby headphones on or dolby headphones + 7.1 shifter on or just pure hi-fi mode?_

 

None of them. The less processing, the better.

 Edit: Using Hi-Fi mode will actually be best for SQ, since it disables all processing.


----------



## Shahrose

Essence STX for *$116* open box on Newegg!
Newegg.com - Open Box: ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone AMP Card

 Wow, I would pick one up if I could. They'll probably run out fast.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mentioned that in my impressions post. Foobar2000 0.9.6.2.



 There is literally 1cm between the Essence STX and my 8800GT + Zalman VF1000 cooler._

 

Hi. Thanks for posting your impression on te card. 

 Is your Essence STX placed above your graphic card or under? and How effective is the cooling by the zalman cooler?


----------



## genclaymore

Yea some one drove for it. As for where the cards located, My HDAV13 is between my Two 8800GT's and the main 8800GT has a Duo orb cooler on it. So the card doesnt really get hot.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. Thanks for posting your impression on te card. 

 Is your Essence STX placed above your graphic card or under? and How effective is the cooling by the zalman cooler?_

 

The STX is installed directly underneath the videocard with a 1cm clearance from the VF1000 cooler mounted on the video card. The Zalman works quite well; it's silent and keeps the temperature on the video card 2-4 degrees (Celcius) below the stock cooler at maximum (noisy) speed.


----------



## twhtpclover

Just came across this... another new award fyi..

http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/rev...nd-card-review








  Quote:


 *Conclusion*

 When all is said and done, the Xonar Essence STX isn’t the ideal sound card for everyone’s needs, but it’s an absolutely splendid solution for music lovers. And we much prefer a purpose-built system that excels at one job over a jack-of-all-trades solution that’s inferior on several counts.


----------



## s2kphile

Well I got my new opamps today. I'm gonna go ahead and test them out. I'll post results when I'm done.


----------



## Goit

With this thing and the HTOmega card, will swapping the opamps affect the sound of the headphone output? Or does the headphone port go by it's own amp?


----------



## ROBSCIX

On the Essence STX, swapping the I/V opamps (JRC2114D) will affect the sound of the headphone amplifier. Changing out the LM4562NA will NOT affect the sound of the headphone amp.


----------



## Goit

How do you know which opamp will fit? What technical specs will tell you that?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the Essence STX, swapping the I/V opamps (JRC2114D) will affect the sound of the headphone amplifier. Changing out the LM4562NA will NOT affect the sound of the headphone amp._

 

Would changing the Two op-amps in front of the socket where the LMA4562 was effect any thing at all? on the HDAV13 that is.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The HDAV 1.3 has a similar opamp setup to the STX,
 2 JRC 2114D's
 1 LM4562.

 You want to change the two 2114D's or the LM4562?
 I am guessing you want to change out the 2114D's, A few of use have tried others units in this position such as the OPA2134's which provide better specs and are better units to use for this position. There are others also...


----------



## telefragd

This might seem like a silly question, but what would be the best way to control volume when using the headphone output on this card? Bearing in mind that I want to avoid any kmixer problems (Vista64) as I'm doing currently with the WASAPI plugin in Foobar with my basic DAC. Is using the digital volume control in Foobar okay?


----------



## Bojamijams

Alydon has reported that 2x LM6172 in the I/V section of the card were a total upgrade in all fronts.


----------



## scytheavatar

Is it definitely safe to use the LM6172 in the STX? I read from Working with Cranky Op-Amps that we might need to be concern about the input bias current of the LM6172.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You may depending on the circuit, however Alydon already tested these opamps in the I/V position and said they work great.


----------



## scytheavatar

Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem.


----------



## DarkRegion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a Denon D2000 or D5000 they can test with this card and its HP out? 

 The harshness with my (basically) LA2000 HP's is driving me nuts. The rest of the sound is fantastic but the highs can cause me serious head pain after only 5 minutes with some types of music. I need to know if its just the synergy thats off between these two (STX and D2000/D5000) or something else_

 

Well I have tested the D7000's with the HP out and I don't notice any harshness. The D7000's sound very good with the essence no complaints. The highs are smooth no silibance at all. 

 I will be returning the D7000's due to comfort issues I don't like the way they feel on my head. It's very unfortunate because they sound great.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem._

 


 The recommendation for using the 6172 for the I/V was dependant on using the LT1361 for the buffer. Atleast I am pretty sure that is the model Alydon was using for the buffer.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem._

 

What do you mean with _resolution_? I can't understand how they can sound more neutral, accurate but with less resolution. Isn't it related to accuracy?


----------



## Filburt

When you say swapping the LM4562 will not affect the headphone amplifier, do you mean that the headphone amplifier doesn't pull from the LPF stage with the LM4562 in it? If so, that's...kind of unusual.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


 *Originally Posted by scytheavatar:*
 Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem. 
 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean with resolution? I can't understand how they can sound more neutral, accurate but with less resolution. Isn't it related to accuracy?_

 

I think he is referring to _tonal_ accuracy across the frequency spectrum. They do seem to produce a flatter frequency response than the 2114's did. Although with my particular setup I do noticed a slight mid-bass hump around 200-400Hz from the 6172's and a small dip at 4-8KHz.

 @scytheavatar, are you listening through the STX's HP out or through the RCA's? I'm surprised that you're experiencing a drop in overall resolution since for me it increased rather significantly. Could a change in the treble response explain what you're experiencing? I ask since the 2114's seemed to have more emphasis in the treble region than the 6172's do. But then, I've got about 30 hours or so of burn-in on the 6172's now and I do seem to hear more treble energy from them now then I did when I installed them last week. 

 And ROBSCIX is right, I was using the LT1361 in the buffer when I recommended the 6172, although I've since switched to the LT1364. The LM4562 sounds okay w/ them as well, but I'm not satisfied with that opamp's overall performance.

 As for the 6172 being safe for this card, from what I can tell the STX has output caps after the opamps to regulate their output current, so most of the more common opamps recommend @Head-fi should be safe to use. I've been using them for a little over a week and have experienced no issues.

  Quote:


 *Originally posted by Shahrose:*
 Hey Alydon, just wanted to offer a suggestion if I may. I've found that the further one tweaks the sounds, the more one loses touch with the default sound and whether the tweaked sound is even better than the original. Right now it'd be interesting to see if you hear any decrease in SQ once you switch back to the default opamps, and therein lies my request. 
 


 @Shahrose, when I was trying out different opamps in the buffer spot I did occasionally switch back to the LM4562 to keep the original setup in mind. I stopped doing so though once I put the LM6172's in the I/V spots. I did use my Xonar HDAV sound card for a/b comparisons since its sonic signature is very similar to the default setup on the STX. 

 However, I did switch the STX back to its default opamps for a bit this weekend since it had been a while since I'd heard it. My notes are at home so I can't post my impressions atm. I do know that I still like the 1361/6172 setup better though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Filburt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say swapping the LM4562 will not affect the headphone amplifier, do you mean that the headphone amplifier doesn't pull from the LPF stage with the LM4562 in it? If so, that's...kind of unusual._

 

That is our understanding, yes. The signal only goes through the LM4562 when you're using the RCA outs. When using the HP-out, the signal passes through the TI TPA6120A2 instead. I'm guessing the JRC 2114D's are used as both I/V and lpf.


----------



## 12Bass

FWIW, my experience with the AD8599 suggests that it will be a bit warmer sounding than the LM4562, perhaps with a bit smoother midrange and maybe a bit more weight in the lows, while the LM4562 will have a flatter and maybe more sterile sound with more detail. Given what I've read about the transparency of the AD797, it appears that the AD8599 sounds fairly different even though it is supposed to be related by design. For the most part, I've preferred the LM4562 across a number of applications.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Testing opamps is part of the fun. I find that just because a opamp will sound one way in one design doesn't mean it will sound the same in another.
 The only way to really know for sure is to try out the opamp in the card and listen for yourself.

 I know many of use are testing behind the scenes and listening for awsome combinations.


----------



## DarkRegion

Dose anyone have a chart or know the various levels of power output at different levels of impedance for the cards amp?

 This is all i could find on the cards amp
 80 mW into 600 ohms From a ±12-V Supply at 0.00014% THD + N 

Audio Amplifiers - Headphone Amplifiers - TPA6120A2 - TI.com

 Dose anyone how many mw into 300 ohms, ect...?

 It also says its output power is 1.5 watts.


----------



## Alydon

Dark, alas I'm not sure anyone has a chart like that since it's been asked for here a couple of times and has gotten no response. However, there's an equation at the top of page 18 on the datasheet available on the link you provided which might give you the answers if you fuddle w/ it a bit since it has each of the variables you're asking about. I'm too lazy to play w/ it myself atm though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In any case, I see that this thread has slipped down to page 2 on the Computer forums, and we just can have that, can we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I have some further impressions for you all.

 I took Shahrose's advice and listened to the STX again in its default opamp configuration. Here are some notes I jotted down while listening to some Heart and Pink Floyd, compared to my favorite setup (1xLT1364, 2x6172):


> Default (1xLM4562, 2xJRC 2114D)- decent treble presence, clear but it sounds brittle and scratchy. about the right amount of air. mid/upper bass hump, slightly muddled. Not much bass extension. Drums on DSotM's "On the Run" sound like static discharges, not actual drums.
> 
> Dreamboat Annie - bass guitar bloomy, indistinct. drums have good attack but lack oomph and body. accompanying instruments are pushed into a backdrop of music. Instruments are individual but are flat, 2d.
> 
> Wish you were here - Lacking dynamics, not as much passion or authority. Complex passages get muddle and indistinct, esp if there is a strong bass presence.


I also tried out 2xLT1364's in the I/V slot + 1x6172 in the buffer:


> Music has taken two steps back. some bass extension lost. Sound seems constricted due to decay truncated too quickly, some detail lost, some instruments fade into background. primary instruments/voices are a little tighter in space if they don't fade away anyway. Soundstage is smaller, and more in front of you rather than around you. Soundstage itself is narrower. Some treble sibilance present that wasn't there before. Mids a little more recessed and indistinct.


Final Verdict: I still prefer the the LT1364 in the buffer, and 2xLM6172's in the I/V sockets.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



			Default (1xLM4562, 2xJRC 2114D)- decent treble presence, clear but it sounds brittle and scratchy. about the right amount of air. mid/upper bass hump, slightly muddled. Not much bass extension. Drums on DSotM's "On the Run" sound like static discharges, not actual drums. 

 Dreamboat Annie - bass guitar bloomy, indistinct. drums have good attack but lack oomph and body. accompanying instruments are pushed into a backdrop of music. Instruments are individual but are flat, 2d. 

 Wish you were here - Lacking dynamics, not as much passion or authority. Complex passages get muddle and indistinct, esp if there is a strong bass presence.
		
Click to expand...

_ 
 

Aren't you exagerating a bit? 
 It looks like the soundcard @default sounds like rubbish 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Final Verdict: I still prefer the the LT1364 in the buffer, and 2xLM6172's in the I/V sockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you still need to activate some additional effects, of after the burn-in these opamps sound good also in hifi mode?


----------



## genclaymore

Alydon you happen to have some OPA627aus that you can try in the buffer with 2x LT1364s? or 2xLM6172 because i was thinking of changing out the jrc in my I/V on my HDAV13


----------



## chinesekiwi

Hey Alydon, what's the detail difference like between your preferred combo of 2xLM6172 and 1xLT1364 and the stock setup?

 Thinking of getting 3xLM6172.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't you exagerating a bit? 
 It looks like the soundcard @default sounds like rubbish 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you still need to activate some additional effects, of after the burn-in these opamps sound good also in hifi mode? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, those descriptions are an exaggeration. They are meant to show the _relative_ changes I detected in the sound compared to my preferred setup. They are mostly quite minor, and the default config still sounds wonderful and better than any other sound card I've heard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And no, I no longer have any room/echo effects or anything else enabled. The 6172's have opened up a it more now and the sense of air has gotten stronger and instrument decay is improved. HiFi button FTW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @glenclaymore, no I don't have any 627's at all, but if anyone would like to send me some I'd be more than happy to test 'em out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I _do_ have a pair of 637AP's though that I will be trying out a soon as I get a browndog for them. I'm guessing both the 627 and 637 will make a great selection for the buffer, and I hope they'll complement the 6172's nicely.

 @chinesewiki, read my previous post again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously tho, the loss in detail mainly affects instrument texture on foreground instruments, and imaging/3-Dimensionality on background instruments. For example, on the first Track of Pink Floyd's DSotM, I can clearly hear the cymbols vibrate and hum as they sing after they are struck. In the default config the metallic sheen is still there, but it's sound is slightly smoothed over so it sounds more like a single solitary sound. Kinda like an incredibly detailed wax sculpture that was left in the sun just a tiny bit too long. The sculpture still looks quite amazing and lifelike and hasn't lost its form, but the tiny hair-level details have started to meld into one another and are losing their distinction.

 Also, the last bit of image coherence is lost as well, so instruments can sound slightly fuzzy around the edges. It's the difference between having to concentrate slightly to get a clear picture of the instrument playing and having it pop out and hang effortlessly in the air before you. Instruments playing in the background will start to lose their 3-dimensional feel, and start to meld into a flat backdrop of sound. They can sometimes be lost entirely for briefs moments on more complex music, whereas w/ my opamp setup they stay in "view" longer, dissapear for less time (if at all), and will have a more coherent 3D image during their highpoints.

 But again, these are minor, but palpable, differences.


----------



## fzman

alydon -- the 637s are not unity gain stable -- they may not be a good choice in the card-- use the 627s instead, if you are going to spend the money ot try either of those .

 also, i have used a browndog adaptor to fit two single dips into the dual dip output socket on the stx, and it doesn;t fit quite as well as i'd like it to. it makes good contact, but there may be some ill effects from having the longer lead lengths. (listen for phaseyness, weird soundstaging-- wisoy images, and a hardness/almost stuttering sound which indicates the connection is not good, and probably suffering from stray capacitance/inductance, or too much rfi pickup). additionally, the shield will not fit over the card with the adapter in place. i have not done the a-b yet between the dual 49720 version PLUS SHIELD and the paired 49710 singles w/out shield. the singles were a bit more open and the staging was slightly better with the singles.

 stock, i found the card very warm, lush and musical, but perhaps a little too much so-- snap and dynamics were suffering from all the smoothness-- it was very relaxing to listen to, but was not accurate-- minor, to be sure, but important to me......

 i am now using metal can 49720s in the i/v spots, and a pair of singles-- 49710s, on the aforementioned browndog on the output. you have to bend the pins and trim them a bit, but they fit the sockets well, if you are patient-- and don't let any of the oins touch the cases of the opamps.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Greetings,
 I'm a newbie here, but have been following this thread closely from the first page
 and decided to register today to post some question.

 I'm building a system from my rig,
 and I'm deliberating about how to get the digital signal out of my rig to the amp (I'm using a 2.1 bookshelf speaker)
 Since I've read all the posts in here, I know for certain that Essence STX is a very decent choice for the bucks, especially as some of you have mentioned, its DAC section is great.
 But my doubt is that how does Essence's DAC compare to that of a pricer standalone DAC like DAC Magic ? (I'm not targeting something like Benchmark DAC-1 or Stello DA-100, as they're so expensive I feel so sorry about my wallet)
 Or is there any other recommendation for a DAC of around $400 you'd suggest ?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bojamijams

Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm confused about your post. Are you looking to use this thing as the 'rig'? If so and you just want digital out, then this card is not really for you. There are cheaper alternatives since the DAC doesn't come into play at all. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Greetings,
 I'm a newbie here, but have been following this thread closely from the first page
 and decided to register today to post some question.

 I'm building a system from my rig,
 and I'm deliberating about how to get the digital signal out of my rig to the amp (I'm using a 2.1 bookshelf speaker)
 Since I've read all the posts in here, I know for certain that Essence STX is a very decent choice for the bucks, especially as some of you have mentioned, its DAC section is great.
 But my doubt is that how does Essence's DAC compare to that of a pricer standalone DAC like DAC Magic ? (I'm not targeting something like Benchmark DAC-1 or Stello DA-100, as they're so expensive I feel so sorry about my wallet)
 Or is there any other recommendation for a DAC of around $400 you'd suggest ?

 Thanks in advance. _


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Sorry for being unclear,
 but I was asking for a comment on the DAC section of the Essence as compared to a standalone DAC

 If the Essence would already suffice, then there'd be no need for a digital out
 But if a standalone DAC is the way to go, then of course I won't use the Essence for digital output

 Just to rephrase, I'm hopping between:
 1) PC with Essence -> analog out -> Amp
 2) PC -> digital out -> standalone DAC -> analog out -> Amp

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm confused about your post. Are you looking to use this thing as the 'rig'? If so and you just want digital out, then this card is not really for you. There are cheaper alternatives since the DAC doesn't come into play at all._


----------



## Bojamijams

For that purpose, this thing is great value for the buck. And depending on what amp you have, you may be pleasantly surprised by what this thing can do for the money (free basically since you just want a dac)


----------



## fzman

exFictitiouZ -- the essence has a very good dac, and will likely outperform dacs which cost in the same range as the card itself, given that many cheaper cards and onboard chipsets produce poor spdif output to begin with. you can further upgrade the essence by powering it with a quiet, linear outboard power supply, and tune the sound even more by swapping opamps which are socketed on the card.


 sonics, cost and simpl;icity all favor the essence.


----------



## NGX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dionysus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also tried the HD595 but they seemed over matched by STX so I return them to JR. The moment the HD650 arrived, without burn in it was like now that’s what I was searching for the detail of the mids the tight base, and the crisp highs all came to life.
 I’ am thoroughly enjoying the combo again if anyone is sitting on the fence you will not be disappointed._

 

That's actually very good to hear. I was wondering if I made a wrong choice when I decided on the HD650s instead of HD595, considering the price difference between the two..


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for being unclear,
 but I was asking for a comment on the DAC section of the Essence as compared to a standalone DAC

 If the Essence would already suffice, then there'd be no need for a digital out
 But if a standalone DAC is the way to go, then of course I won't use the Essence for digital output

 Just to rephrase, I'm hopping between:
 1) PC with Essence -> analog out -> Amp
 2) PC -> digital out -> standalone DAC -> analog out -> Amp_

 

Unfortunately not many people have posted comments yet on how the STX compares to an external DAC. The only two DACs I know it has been compared to are an upgraded Zero w/ an HDAM opamp (OPA-Moon or -Earth, can't remember which) and an iBasso DAC. FWIW both people who compared the STX to their external DACs thought the STX was better.

 Other than that though I haven't read anything. The STX however is a pretty amazing DAC for the price. It's pure speculation, but I suspect its DAC section would fare well when compared against something like a DACMagic.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Thanks for your replies, Bojamijams, fzman, + Alydon 

 @Alydon: That's what I was wondering about, having read through 60 pages of the thread, remembering that I don't see many comparisons to a standalone DAC. But then again, 60 pages are a lot, and my memory might play tricks on me. So I decided to ask, just in case there might be other people comparing the two but haven't posted the result yet.

 But to think over it again, that'd be something normal, since this is a forum mainly of headphone owners, and that the Essence's prominent feature is its headphone amp. So maybe not that many people are looking for its RCA output.

 Based on the feedbacks everyone is commenting on the Essence, I'm pretty sure it'd be comparable even to something twice its price as the DAC Magic (in USD at least, since in my region, it's three times pricier). Even if you're speculating, I believe you're not far off the fact, if at all.

 Anyway thanks again for everyone's answer.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your replies, Bojamijams, fzman, + Alydon 

 @Alydon: That's what I was wondering about, having read through 60 pages of the thread, remembering that I don't see many comparisons to a standalone DAC. But then again, 60 pages are a lot, and my memory might play tricks on me. So I decided to ask, just in case there might be other people comparing the two but haven't posted the result yet.

 But to think over it again, that'd be something normal, since this is a forum mainly of headphone owners, and that the Essence's prominent feature is its headphone amp. So maybe not that many people are looking for its RCA output.

 Based on the feedbacks everyone is commenting on the Essence, I'm pretty sure it'd be comparable even to something twice its price as the DAC Magic (in USD at least, since in my region, it's three times pricier). Even if you're speculating, I believe you're not far off the fact, if at all.

 Anyway thanks again for everyone's answer. _

 

I can tell you that compared to my old D2 Boa, the Essence is a night and day jump. i.e the Essence makes my D2 Boa look like utter turd. I have heard the Zero DAC a bit a while ago and off my memory I think the Essence is high above the Zero DAC too, although don't take my word for it. Someone claimed in this topic that the Essence sounds better than the Zero DAC on discrete amps. So I think it's clear that the Essence is superior to DACs at its price range, although of course the Zero DAC and D2 Boa has the advantage of being portable/semi portable.


----------



## Mordeous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
STX (LT1361 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x Lm6171)
STX (LT1364 & 2x LM6172) -> Opera (2x Lm6171)
_

 

Hi Alydon,

 I've tried to lookup some of these OP-Amps on the net, and then tried to find them at the local dealer - Newbie as I am, I get easily confused by the fact that my search often returned several versions of the same chip.

 Any chance I could talk you into providing me with specific links to the IC's I need, so that I can order them from my local dealer? 

 Im after your current preferred setup : 1x LT1364 + 2xLM6172

 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 //Mordeous


 PS: Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this, and sharing with everyone.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Basically your looking for DIP8 version of the chip. Some will come in various packages such as surface mount (SO8) or through hole (Dip8).. I am sure Alydon can relate the exact part # he is using.


----------



## nsdjoe

Hi There,

 This card intrigues me. I have a pair of ATH-AD700's that to my knowledge aren't terribly affected by amplification. Would it be a waste to upgrade to this card?

 I'm also interested in the Dolby HP feature since my Audigy 2 ZS lacks headphone surround matrixing.


----------



## VykRO

Hello everybody,

 This is my Ist post on this forum. Since I'm interested in a hi-end audio card for my project (details bellow) I found this topic very interesting and read all the 60 pages.

 Many many thanx to the users who took time to share our opinions about the card and especially experimenting with OpAmps!

 I want to use this card for a CarPC that will play the role of head unit. I guess (being such a new product) that you did't use it for that purpose...anyway I wonder how it will interract with car specific equipment like amplifiers and speakers.

 Most probably (even after a possible upgrade) the car system will be composed of Audison LRX amps and Focal speakers (for the moment POlyglass, in the future maybe K2 Power 165).

 Reading the specs I didn't find the voltage for RCA out. If i don't make a confusion the Prelude had more voltage for output. I'm interested in this aspect considering that some of the hi-end head units have 5v out for signal.

 As at today the "car host" of the card is a system composed by: E7200 Intel CPU, Intel DG45FC miniITX mobo with hardware hi-def decoding capabilities, 120GB hdd and 2 GB ram. I will use M2 ATX 160W DC DC power suply.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsdjoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi There,

 This card intrigues me. I have a pair of ATH-AD700's that to my knowledge aren't terribly affected by amplification. Would it be a waste to upgrade to this card?

 I'm also interested in the Dolby HP feature since my Audigy 2 ZS lacks headphone surround matrixing._

 



 Every can benefits from good amplification.. some more then others but they all do... the essence would be an upgrade for you simply because it'll have a lot better DAC the what your Audigy 2 employs so you'll notice a sound improvement there... looks like you run the output into that panasonic receiver.. I have no experience with it so I don't know if it would be better/worse of an amp then whats on the card


----------



## nsdjoe

If you run the jumpers to the FP HP jack, does it receive the same amplification that the RP HP does? Any reason not to do this?


----------



## Telstar

Anyone has managed to get i2s out of the Essence?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mordeous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Alydon,

 I've tried to lookup some of these OP-Amps on the net, and then tried to find them at the local dealer - Newbie as I am, I get easily confused by the fact that my search often returned several versions of the same chip.

 Any chance I could talk you into providing me with specific links to the IC's I need, so that I can order them from my local dealer? 

 Im after your current preferred setup : 1x LT1364 + 2xLM6172

 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 //Mordeous


 PS: Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this, and sharing with everyone._

 


 Hey Mordeous, Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet....! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All of my opamps I've purchased from Digikey. Anyway here are the links:

LM6172
LT1364

 I really suggest you try the LT1361 as well. It's also quite a good opamp for the buffer. It's a little brighter/airier than the LT1364, but doesn't have quite as much body or refinement in the bass region. It's quite possible though that you might prefer it to the LT1364 depending n your equipment, tastes, etc. And it costs less than lunch at McDonald's, so it's not exactly a huge investment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 @nsdjoe, my understanding is that the AD700's sound better than a lot of other headphones when unamped so they don't necessarily _require_ an amp to sound decent. However, they will sound even better when amped so the STX's HP-out won't be a waste to you at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact, it'd be a great way to introduce you to the joys of HP-amping since it's essentialy free w/ the card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, I believe the FP HP jack is also driven by the TI TPA6120A2.


----------



## usf09

Just curious...I got my new Essence after RMAing the first one, and this sounds absolutely perfect...(NGX, I think you had the hiss also, I would RMA it if you haven't already)...anyways, what settings do you all use? I saw the Dolby 7.1/PXII/Dolby Headphone...

 I don't really favor any of those settings turned on, I just set the sample rate to 44.1 khz and that's it...I liked this sound best out of all the settings there are, I was just wondering how other people felt...


----------



## ROBSCIX

@USF09. glad to hear you got it figured out and are now enjoying your new card.


----------



## usf09

Thanks, appreciate it...I'm really glad I went through with it, such a huge difference...Absolutely silent in all quiet playback (unless hiss from recording studio itself, can't be helped)...This is my first venture into higher end (still low/mid-fi I know) equipment, and this card with my studio monitors and with my hd650s are unbelievable coming from bose triports...

 I listened to my Bose again, and everything is so muddled, it just sounds awful compared to this setup...I'm still in the process of figuring out all the settings, but so far, the stock settings with the bass upped for larger headphones are the only changes I've made

 I'll probably keep this for a while, I can tell the dolby 7.1 puts me into a virtual room or sorts, i guess...they are two different sounds, and I am on the fence as to which type of sound I like better...


----------



## EBisky

I just got an Essence. I had a 'hot-rodded' xi-fi, but I started getting a lot of static which was probably due to the solder points coming undone.

 Anyways, the question I had was if I set it to high gain(60-300 ohm) for my ATH-A900(40 ohms), would I see any benefit in doing this or could it possibly damage my headphones?

 Thanks!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are correct. I think I'm the only person who's posted a comparision of the STX's amp section to an external amp so far. 
 Make no mistake, the STX has a very nice amp section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

When you say amp section, does this refer to the headphone amp only? 

 I wasn't able to find the info on the asus website, but does it have an amp section for speakers via the RCA outs? Or is it just line level?

 Also, theoretically speaking, when watching a movie, is it possible to use the analog outs as your mains while routing the surround sound through the digital out -> amp -> surround speakers? 

 Thanks,

 Jon


----------



## audionewbieyao

yes, Xonar Essence STX does have an amp section for headphone. 
 The RCA out is normal 2vrms line out.
 The 3rd jack from left is the one with headphone amp.





 It's thearatically possible, but no one is doing that because most of the headphones will block out the environment sounds so you can enjoy your music better. So in reality, it's not possible, unless it's designed from a complete system point of view.


----------



## scytheavatar

Wow, 2XLME49720 in the i/v slot is awesome, far more than 2XLM6172. Alydon, try them out!


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, 2XLME49720 in the i/v slot is awesome, far more than 2XLM6172. Alydon, try them out!_

 

Hmm, I'm a little hesitant to try them out since they're just rebadged LM4562's... Dunno, maybe National cherry picks their silicon for the "performance audio" line.... But they are only $9 for a pair of 'em so I might give 'em a shot anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before I do tho I have a few questions for you.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you listening to the HP-out or RCA-outs?

 What other equipment (cans, IC's, amps) are in the chain you're listening to?

 What are you using for a buffer opamp?

 I remember you mentioning the 6172's had decreased resolution compared to the stock 2114D's (whic is the opposite of my experience). Did they ever open up for you or become more detailed after burning-in?

 And the big one..... What specifically do you like about them over the 6172's?


----------



## s2kphile

I've actually tried those LME49720 in the I/V slots. I really don't know how to describe the sound but lets say it's a bit warmer then the LM6172, imo. All I know is after listening to it I went back to the LM6172 maybe it's cause of the set up I'm using which include

 D5000 | AD700 | MSOne | HD280Pro | Mackie MR5

 I think the LM6172 sound better in the I/V slot especially paired with a LT1361 or LT1364.


----------



## Alydon

*nods* Hmmm, yeah that was kinda what my suspicion would be. The 49720's I'm guessing would produce a brighter sound that would emphasis the lower-mid treble area. A lot of the music that's out there produces quite a bit of its sound around those freq's so it's entirely possible they might sound more detailed or clearer than the 6172's on some gear. The 6172's may not pair well on darker/less revealing gear. Or maybe Scytheavatar's ears are just broken.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yo scythe, you didn't happen to install the 6172's in backwards did ya? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 j/k *ducks*


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I'm a little hesitant to try them out since they're just rebadged LM4562's... Dunno, maybe National cherry picks their silicon for the "performance audio" line.... But they are only $9 for a pair of 'em so I might give 'em a shot anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before I do tho I have a few questions for you.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you listening to the HP-out or RCA-outs?

 What other equipment (cans, IC's, amps) are in the chain you're listening to?

 What are you using for a buffer opamp?

 I remember you mentioning the 6172's had decreased resolution compared to the stock 2114D's (whic is the opposite of my experience). Did they ever open up for you or become more detailed after burning-in?

 And the big one..... What specifically do you like about them over the 6172's?





_

 


 I am listening only straight from the headphone out, on my AD2000. And only swapping the I/V slots. IMHO the LM6172 is 1 step forward, 1 step back from the 2114, while I liked the improved neutrality the soundstage and transparency seemed to have suffered, it's almost like the Esscence's magic is sucked out and it sounds more lower end. It does improve a bit after a short (about 10 hours) burn in, I think I will swap them back and burn them in more to see how much better they can get. The LME49720s on the other hand has an incredible transparency and treble extension, plus an incredible soundstage. IMHO it's an upgrade from both the 2114 and 6172. I strongly disagree that it's warmer than the 6172; in fact I disliked the LME49720's bass which seemed to have become softer. But the tradeoff is worth it IMHO.


----------



## s2kphile

Which OPAmp do you have in the buffer slot? Thats why it's all subjective and we need a detail list of how each opamps sound. I'm using mostly my Mackie speakers as my test since it uses both the buffer and i/v slots.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which OPAmp do you have in the buffer slot? Thats why it's all subjective and we need a detail list of how each opamps sound. I'm using mostly my Mackie speakers as my test since it uses both the buffer and i/v slots._

 

I am using the headphone out, so the op amp in the buffer slot doesn't matter. I haven't change it from the LM4562.


----------



## dex85

hi again, how do you guys control volume for headphones and active speakers? do you use foobar or asus software that comes with card?


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EBisky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got an Essence. I had a 'hot-rodded' xi-fi, but I started getting a lot of static which was probably due to the solder points coming undone.

 Anyways, the question I had was if I set it to high gain(60-300 ohm) for my ATH-A900(40 ohms), would I see any benefit in doing this or could it possibly damage my headphones?

 Thanks!_

 

This is what I'd to know as well. Say a Sony V6 with 64ohm and a Beyerdynamic DT 770-80ohm both on the verge of Low/Medium gain setting (0 to 64ohm and 64ohm to 300ohm, respectively) Which of the setting would you guys say for phones in the upper low gain range and lower medium gain range? And like the other guy has said, would selecting a medium gain for a relatively lower impedance phones (45-80ohm) damage the phone in the long run?


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi again, how do you guys control volume for headphones and active speakers? do you use foobar or asus software that comes with card?_

 

Avoid software volume control (either foobar or asus software) as long as you can, since it leads to a loss in resolution and dynamics.

 Of course with headphone connected to the essence head-amp you can't go other way, but with active speakers I'd rather keep the sound card volume at 100% and use the pot on the speakers.


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Avoid software volume control (either foobar or asus software) as long as you can, since it leads to a loss in resolution and dynamics._

 

It *MAY *lead to loss of resolution and dynamics, if the volume is lowered below the original track bitrate.

 I.e. it can be safely used with 16bit tracks played with a 24 bit dac such as the Essence, up to -15db (in my case, but your mileage may vary).


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Avoid software volume control (either foobar or asus software) as long as you can, since it leads to a loss in resolution and dynamics.

 Of course with headphone connected to the essence head-amp you can't go other way, but with active speakers I'd rather keep the sound card volume at 100% and use the pot on the speakers.



_

 

i don't have an external headphone amp, so i'm stuck with software regulation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and volume pot on many active speakers are ofter at rear, which is very inconvenient for me (especially if there is a volume pot for every speaker).

 do you guys find that loss of resolution and dynamics to be a serious problem (audible right-away or issue for bat ears)? i'll definitely try it for myself when the cards finally arrive, but i want to know what others thinks too.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It *MAY *lead to loss of resolution and dynamics, if the volume is lowered below the original track bitrate.

 I.e. it can be safely used with 16bit tracks played with a 24 bit dac such as the Essence, up to -15db (in my case, but your mileage may vary)._

 

Yes you're absolutely right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you guys find that loss of resolution and dynamics to be a serious problem (audible right-away or issue for bat ears)? i'll definitely try it for myself when the cards finally arrive, but i want to know what others thinks too._

 

I'm stuck with software regulation as well. In my experience it can be noticed well at low volume listening, the lower the volume the higher the loss of musical content. At medium/high listening volumes it's negligible (expecially with 16bit files, as stated from Telstar)


----------



## Bmac

Ebisky/Tiramisu,

 I don't think there is any danger to using the high gain setting with lower impedance phones. The higher gains are just amplifying the signal for louder volume on harder to drive cans. What I found though with the higher gain settings on my 701's (64 ohms) was that they were just too loud to control the volume accurately. 

 On the normal gain I listen at under 10% max volume normally. With the high gain I could only go up to about 1/4 max volume comfortably, and with extra high gain I could only go 1-3 of the smallest notches possible above minimum comfortably. Your mileage may vary but I didn't notice much if any change in sq between the gain settings so I stick to the normal gain for better control over the volume.


----------



## neongod

Hi, can someone tell me the correct way to set volume controls with the Essence?
 I know that is important to set software volumes to the maximum to avoid loss of quality.

 My actual setup is:
 Asus Xonar Rssence STX connected via QED One RCA cables to KRK Rokit Powered 5 G2 speakers.

 I set the volume of the Asus control panel/Windows Vista panel to the maximum (100) and leaved the right and left mixer volume at default (76).
 I also set up the WMP11 volume to 100.
 This way however I have to set volume controls on the speakers at four steps above 
 -30 dB (that's the bottom end of volume knob) or volume is really too too high.

 Do you think it's right or have I to rise up to 100 the mixer volume in the control panel and set speakers volume to -30 dB?

 Also: do you set the quality to PCM 96 or 192 Khz both in the Asus control panel and in the OS control panel?


----------



## Shahrose

I have found that using digital volume control (in foobar for example) degrades SQ. I have also found that maxing out the soundcard volume (from the Windows mixer) ALSO degrades SQ. It's best to keep the volume low to medium on the line-out and control volume from the amp (if it's feeding into an external amp).


----------



## neongod

So you have foobar set to maximum, right?
 And what about the main volume in the Asus panel? Right and left volumes in the mixer panel of the Asus panel?

 More: how do tou set quality? 96 or 192 Khz?


----------



## johnston21

Hurray! I got my STX to work using Velbac 2.0 with my X-Fi Fatil1ty on a Socket A MB.

 How with no PCI-E 1X slot? With this: http://www.amfeltec.com/products/pci...s-adapter.html

 Expensive yes, but someone had to try...

 My Fostex PMO 4's sound great. Still to try with my 530's & Triple-Fi's.

 ...Lots more testing to do.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you have foobar set to maximum, right?
 And what about the main volume in the Asus panel? Right and left volumes in the mixer panel of the Asus panel?

 More: how do tou set quality? 96 or 192 Khz?_

 

Set foobar volume to max. The main volume in the Asus panel is the same as the Windows mixer volume. I always try to keep the volume below 50-60% for the main volume, otherwise I've noticed a loss in SQ (in some sound cards more than others, for example, the Prelude was the worst offender). As for the L/R channel volume, leave those be.

 Set the quality to 24 Bit/96 KHz as the STX performs best at those settings.


----------



## usf09

Sorry for asking this, but is there a way to choose between 16/24 bit? I can't find any option for this on my Asus control panel, only the sampling rate (which I have set to 192khz, though I'm not sure what difference it will make since I am playing 44.1khz audio files)...anyways, is there a way to change this setting, or does it change the 16/24 bit automatically? Thanks!

 Also, for anyone who has hiss still...try turning the SVN off (smart volume)...I just turned it on, and a loud hiss came through over the music and when no music was playing...It may or may not work for you, just try it out...


----------



## ADD

I can't be certain since I currently own the older Xonar. But they seem very similar in many aspects. With the original Xonar, it defaults to 24 bit processing on the analogue outputs and the only way you can change the bit depth is when using third party DAW software that controls the bit depth using the ASIO API.

 That said, I have noticed on the older Xonar that the SPDIF output is limited to 16 bit regardless of what ASIO settings are chosen and despite what ASUS claim (they were also dead silent on the matter when I pointed this out to them. Try to find any digital syncing 24 bit recorder ever built that will sync with the Xonar SPDIF output at anything other than 16 bits 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 I haven't had anyone confirm whether the Essence SPDIF is limited to 16 bits.


----------



## Shahrose

So I tried the 2x LM6172 in the I/V converter section and left the LM4562 in place. My impressions are that the soundstage width decreased, depth in front slightly increased, treble increased (but became more refined/detailed), midrange decreased slightly and so did voices unfortunately, bass decreased noticeably but the bass quality slightly improved. There is also a bit more texture to the music now. 

 Overall, I'm not sure if it's a clear improvement over stock. Soundstage is a huge factor for me, so the loss of width was a big downer for me. However, the other improvements make up for it more or less. In the end, I'm neutral to the change, YMMV.

 Another by-product of the op-amp switch was a decrease in overall volume. Not a big decrease, but worth noting.

 Update: OK switched over to the OPA2107 and I find they have a wider soundstage than the LM6172 but not as deep forward (difference is subtle). Voices are slightly subdued because of the opamp's bright nature, although female vocals sound better than stock. The brightness comes from a boost in lower treble. The sound is very quick, transients are excellent, great for instrumental music but not so much for vocals. This was also the most detailed opamp I've tested. Overall though, I prefer my midrange to be more prominent and so I still prefer the stock JRC's over these two opamps.
 These would be a good upgrade for people who think their HD650s are veiled. They sound far from it. Bright and detailed with good bass.

 I also tested the LT1361 + LM6172 which was an improvement over the LM4562 + LM6172 in the soundstage department and linearity, but there was an upper treble emphasis that I did not enjoy as much the mid-centric stock sound.

 I would like to find an opamp that has a smooth sound that brings out the mids and voices more, while adding to the technical prowess of the card by increasing soundstage, transients, detail etc. I think I'll try the LT1364 and LME49720 next. 

 Going back to the stock opamps, I definitely prefer this sound over any other combination I've tried. Although each opamp made improvements in certain departments, the overall sound wasn't as pleasing to listen to as the stock opamps. Interesting to note that they ALL added treble over the stock configuration.


----------



## ADD

deleted double post


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am listening only straight from the headphone out, on my AD2000. And only swapping the I/V slots. IMHO the LM6172 is 1 step forward, 1 step back from the 2114, while I liked the improved neutrality the soundstage and transparency seemed to have suffered, it's almost like the Esscence's magic is sucked out and it sounds more lower end. It does improve a bit after a short (about 10 hours) burn in, I think I will swap them back and burn them in more to see how much better they can get. The LME49720s on the other hand has an incredible transparency and treble extension, plus an incredible soundstage. IMHO it's an upgrade from both the 2114 and 6172. I strongly disagree that it's warmer than the 6172; in fact I disliked the LME49720's bass which seemed to have become softer. But the tradeoff is worth it IMHO._

 

I read this after I did my own testing and I have to say I fully agree with scythe regarding the LM6172. Mirrors my findings.


----------



## s2kphile

I guess my findings are different. I think it has to do with me using speakers over headphones. I use the buffer slot also long with the i/v slots. I still looking for the right sound I wish some of the OPAMPs were made in 8-dip instead of 8-soic.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway, I got a question regarding an Essence STX settings.

 Should the Playback in the mixer on the 'Left, Right' be at 100% or would it being at 100% result in clipping?


----------



## Bojamijams

the LT1364 + LME49720 should be a very interesting combo. Looking forward to it.

 Thanks for all the tests and info guys. MUCH APPRECIATED!


----------



## s2kphile

^^^I retried that combo again adjusting some of my settings & listening to better tracks and this is what I deduced.


 The LT1364 has better body & definition in the bass region. It's also more controlled & detail with a strong presence in the music, imho going on pretty much what alydon said.

 and

 The LME49720 is more transparent with highs giving it more extension in the treble area and the mids sound more smoother, IMHO. I must say the soundstage has improved also, it sounded more wider then stock & LM6172. Although it lose a bit more bass from the LM6172 it isn't too noticeable.

 I think I need to test more tracks but basically IMO it's what I've been looking for. Transparent highs, smooth mids, and clear & present bass. I think these opamps complement each other very well. 1364 takes care of the lower end while the 49720 takes care of the mid-higher end.


----------



## fzman

the 49720 is just a relabelled 4562-- neither of which are bad opamps. the metal casn version, which is a to-99-8, and costs about $16 at digikey, sounds better than the dip versions. they can be placed in dip sockets if you carefully bend and trim the leads. the tab identifies pin 8, and they are in sequence. if you hold the can with the tab pointing to the left, and carefully bend pin 8 and the three immediately to its right (counterclockwise, on the circualr pattern) away from you, the other 4 pins are then 1-4 in order.)

 what i did was to bend them that way, and used extra dip sockets i had, and conformed the leads so they would sit in the sockets. they stick up too far this way, but that wil give youa guide for how much of the leads to trim off, so they sit closer to flush.

 i recommend trimming a bit at a time (remember the old adage "measure twice and cut once"!), so you do not trim too much. they will not sit completely flush, but excess lead-length will introduce rfi problems (listen for vast but vague soundstage/imaging, and edgy artifacts).

 also, the metal can is connected to V-, so make sure you don't bend the pins so much that they touch the can.

 once you've got them trimmed and bent into position on the spare sockets,they should remember their positions fairly well (i left them in the spare sockets for about a day (actually i cheated and put them into the essence along with the extra sockets, and leared about the rfi/stray capacitance ill effects from too long leads and the cans being electrically connected when they touched the card's shield and also bent to much -- i have no patience!!!!)

 anyway, they were easy to slip into the card's sockets once they'd gotten use to their new shapes in the spare sockets, and they sound wonderful after many days of continuous play.

 i loved the warmth and rich natural tonality of the stock sound, but wanted more snap, resolution, and dynamics than the stock sound could provide.

 i have it now, and i am prety much done opamp rolling (i know, famous last words). what's in their now is 49720 metal cans in the i/v spots, and a pair of mono 49710 metal cans, on a browndog adaptor in the output position.

 the singles have a slight edge in terms of stage, but are a pain to get seated correctly as the box caps surrounding the socket prevent the browndog from seating completely.
 my audio pc is an antec fusion htpc case, so the opamps are sideways, not upside down like they would be in a tower case, so i've made it work. the shield will not fit back on with this arrangement. i have not had time yet to put back the metal 49720 instead, and see how much the shield effects the sound.

 to finish the story a bit, i have a dedicated audio pc, running xp sp2 in cics cmp2 mode, using winamp as the player, with a recompiled asio exe plug in that was done by a guy in audioasylum. playing with the asio and winamp config setting, mainly thread and process priorities and buffers makes a musically significant impact on sonics. i run the volume sliders in the xonar panel all the way up, and the rotary volume at abut 50-75%. full up it sems to overload my preamp (i am running analog outs to my two channel speaker based system via magnan silver-bronze ics.

 sound card and player settings, along with killing unneeded processes has a major impact on sound -- do experiement with these as you swap opamps, and take notes so you can go back to prior settings. opamps are not simply plug and chug, and some like the 6172s, i believe, may not really be compatible with the card without some circuit tweeks.

 happy hunting!

 mark


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^I retried that combo again adjusting some of my settings & listening to better tracks and this is what I deduced.

 The LME49720 is more transparent with highs giving it more extension in the treble area and the mids sound more smoother, IMHO. I must say the soundstage has improved also, it sounded more wider then stock & LM6172. Although it lose a bit more bass from the LM6172 it isn't too noticeable._

 

i posted aboout the metal can 49720s in some detail, but i should mention that using three of them, i've got amazing bass, that goes very deep, with control and texture. last night i did the 25th ann. edition of dark side of the moon, and got to crank the speaker rig a bit before the wife came home, and the heartbeat could be felt and not just heard. i biamp, and the left and right speaker systems each have a single 12" in a 2.5 ft3 cabinet, driven directly by a 150 w a-b amp. i am not a bass head, but do listen from the bottom up, and these opamps give me great bass!

 YMMV

 to be honest, i couldn;t even tell you if the headphone out of the essence even works! heresy, i know, but i bought it for its analog outs.... it replaced a prodigy hd-2 and/or a juli@.

 the prodigy is in my other machine, and i put a pair of lt1028an's into the output in a browndog, and am happy so far, but need to play with it as well.


----------



## fzman

oops, one more thing-- i forgot to mention that i built a linear psu for the essence, which supplies both 12v and 5v thru the molex connector. they are choke regulated supplies, and are completely seperate, sharing only the iec inlet. this made a huge difference in the sound, so all of my opamp and sonic comments are based on the use of this supply...


----------



## fzman

chinesekiwi -- i just noticed that you have the volume normalization turned on -- svn, i think it is, the left button under the round volume control -- turn that off!!!!! that alters all of the data and it is no longer bit-perfect, iiuk. see what happens then.

 best regards,

 Mark
 promise, i'll stop posting for the moment, and slow down on the coffee!


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chinesekiwi -- i just noticed that you have the volume normalization turned on -- svn, i think it is, the left button under the round volume control -- turn that off!!!!! that alters all of the data and it is no longer bit-perfect, iiuk. see what happens then.

 best regards,

 Mark
 promise, i'll stop posting for the moment, and slow down on the coffee!_

 

He's right, you should always have SVN off. It affects dynamic range and processes the sound so, as fzman said, it won't be bit-perfect anymore. Turn the Hi-Fi mode on, and turn the main volume down. At 100%, I've noticed that components started to get stressed to their operating capacity and don't perform as well.


----------



## taso89

Has anyone tried this sound card with Beyer DT-880 or Grado SR225?


----------



## Bojamijams

I've tried it with SR225, its greatness.


----------



## neongod

But do anyone can explain the difference between main volume control and right & left volume sliders?

 More: is Hi-Fi mode the bit-perfect function or is simply a way to disable all the effects? (after all music mode still has Dolby ProLogic II and Dolby Virtual Speaker turned on).


----------



## Benno1988

This card be a good option for AD900's?

 Chosing between Forte, Essence, Xonar and Prelude...


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Benno1988* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This card be a good option for AD900's?

 Chosing between Forte, Essence, Xonar and Prelude..._

 

yep, it's a great choice for them. The combination of the wide open soundstage of the Asus cards and open headphones are great.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But do anyone can explain the difference between main volume control and right & left volume sliders?

 More: is Hi-Fi mode the bit-perfect function or is simply a way to disable all the effects? (after all music mode still has Dolby ProLogic II and Dolby Virtual Speaker turned on)._

 

Hi-Fi mode only turns off all processing effects. To get bit-perfect playback, you'll need a player that supports bit-perfect and enable that option. For example, using Foobar to output with WASAPI or ASIO.


----------



## neongod

Ok, but you can really tell me you ear huge differences between the same song played with Foobar/WASAPI and WMP 11 with everything turned off on Vista?
 I've tryied iTunes 8, Foobar with WASAPI and WMP 11 in a blind test with another person and it was impossible to distinguish one player from the other.

 Also, I would like to understand the difference between main volume control and right & left volume sliders: why two volume controls if they control the same gain via software? Or they control two different gain?


----------



## zzzmonster

Get a preamp to control the volume, it will sound much better. The player to get is playwasapi from Minimalist Audio Player


----------



## neongod

I know this, I only want to understand technical differences between main volume control and right & left volume sliders


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's right, you should always have SVN off. It affects dynamic range and processes the sound so, as fzman said, it won't be bit-perfect anymore. Turn the Hi-Fi mode on, and turn the main volume down. At 100%, I've noticed that components started to get stressed to their operating capacity and don't perform as well._

 

mmmm...should it be at 100% as you want the strongest signal possible throughout the sound chain until the last input component (in my case, the headphone amp)?

 With the X-fi Prelude, you got distortion with anything 55% and over on the master volume.

 Anyway, going by the advice, >.< at not reading manual or else I would of disabled it immediately. Anyway, lowered the master volume to 78% for now.


----------



## zzzmonster

All of my volume are at 100%,no distortion or clipping what so ever, you just need a preamp


----------



## Earwicker

Quick question my sage friends - 

 Just bought an Essence and I'm about to upgrade my HD595s to either K701s or HD600 (don't worry, I'm not going to get into all that!). What I want to know from people with experience is which will require the least digital attenuation when used with this soundcard? Despite the fundamental pros and cons of these cans, in this application, where there are three gain settings to go at, I suspect the winner will be the cans which produce a good listening level at one of the three gain settings with just a few dB of DSP attenuation - if one of them is going to require lots, it'll probably lose out.

 Any other thoughts welcome, I can't audition the cans I'm afraid. I listen to classical music, I'm keen on resolution, I like a neutral balance but I think the main thing is tonal accuracy and dynamics. Obvious colourations irritate me!

 Thanks,

 EW


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but you can really tell me you ear huge differences between the same song played with Foobar/WASAPI and WMP 11 with everything turned off on Vista?
 I've tryied iTunes 8, Foobar with WASAPI and WMP 11 in a blind test with another person and it was impossible to distinguish one player from the other.

 Also, I would like to understand the difference between main volume control and right & left volume sliders: why two volume controls if they control the same gain via software? Or they control two different gain?_

 

It depends on your downstream components. If you don't have sufficiently revealing headphones and amp, then you won't hear a difference. I actually conducted a blind test and heard a difference between Directsound and WASAPI and ASIO. I'm now using WASAPI for all my listening.


----------



## mikemav

Does anyone know if this card will output via the headphone amp, with Dolby Headphone and/or the other DSP activated, AND at the same time allow Dolby Digital Live output via the SPDIF connector? I am trying out the HT Omega Claro Halo XT and sadly it doesn't. When Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect are selected to send 5.1 upmixed from games, etc... out the digital output to my receiver, headphone connections are no longer active.

 I know, using this card with digital output is a waste normally, but in my situation the digital feeds a secondary system. This is a gaming setup, and headphones are the primary audio, but, I have a tactile feedback system (TFS2 iVibe and Buttkicker Gamer) set up on a 2.1 analog output from a receiver I use to decode that signal from Dolby Digital. So digital output+ headphones= no vibes= no good for my race simulator chair!

 Edit: You ask why not connect my Claro Halo XT's analog outputs to the bass shakers? Well, it's set up in a 2.1 configuration- the chair seat device (iVibe TFS2) is stereo and takes direction cues as such, and the buttkicker is mono and I have connected to the sub/LFE out. However, in the Claro driver software, it isn't possible to set up a 2.1 system. Only you need to go all the way up to 5.1 to get a sub out, and I don't have anything connected to center so I'd lose that info whereas now it gets downmixed and blended into the tactile feedback. 

 So, if the Asus can output a 2.1 mix with headphones connected in DH mode, but still allow L/R/S analog out (or Dolby Digital Live via optical), then I can use everything else as status quo. I'd like these for their headphone sweetness.

 My other option (and it sounds very nice) is to connect the PC via DD Live or DTS Connect digitally to my Harmon Kardon AVR-245 receiver, which has its own Dolby Headphone (2) processing and the output sounds almost equal to the Halo Claro to these mid-fi ears. So for that, plus a host of gamer-specific EAX (probably crappola) I could get the X-Fi Fatality (now on sale for $99, and I know a digital only solution for me at least.) 

 Keep in mind, this is a 95% gaming rig, so music isn't the priority for me, though I do appreciate superior sound quality if I can have the features I need as well.


----------



## Matthew Locklear

Hi, all. I'm new here and have a few questions concerning this card. First of all, I currently am using a Razer Barracuda (from a woot-off) with a set of Logitech Z-5500's w/ optical out for gaming. However, I am looking to get a nice pair of entry level audiophile cans because I find myself listening to music (mostly rock, maybe a little techno and trance) more than playing games these days. I'm looking at possibly getting this soundcard with a pair of HD-595s. 

 Would this pairing be a decent <$400 upgrade (my current budget), or would it be better to go the route of getting the same (or another) pair of cans and an external amp? 

 Would the 595s sound well driven from the headphone output of the Essence? To understand what I mean by "sound well", I've currently only experienced my z-5500's w/ Razer optical out and my old Creative X-Fi Platinum with analog out to a set of Logitech x-530's.

 Most of my music collection is either in 192 or 320 encoding, would this necessarily make the music sound "bad" when going to a better sound setup, or would it be in my best interest to try to start obtaining FLAC encodes?

 Lastly, if I go the route of getting this card for primarily listening to music, I still plan on keeping my Razer in my computer for 5.1 gaming only. I currently am using a 680i motherboard. I've read that some people have IRQ resource errors when running this card in tandem with 680i's. Would I have any type of issue running both of these cards at the same time and just switching between which I'd like to use through windows sounds and audio devices?

 edit: haha, I totally entered my name into username registration field, doh, w/e I guess.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Matthew Locklear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, all. I'm new here and have a few questions concerning this card. First of all, I currently am using a Razer Barracuda (from a woot-off) with a set of Logitech Z-5500's w/ optical out for gaming. However, I am looking to get a nice pair of entry level audiophile cans because I find myself listening to music (mostly rock, maybe a little techno and trance) more than playing games these days. I'm looking at possibly getting this soundcard with a pair of HD-595s. 

 Would this pairing be a decent <$400 upgrade (my current budget), or would it be better to go the route of getting the same (or another) pair of cans and an external amp? 

 Would the 595s sound well driven from the headphone output of the Essence? To understand what I mean by "sound well", I've currently only experienced my z-5500's w/ Razer optical out and my old Creative X-Fi Platinum with analog out to a set of Logitech x-530's.

 Most of my music collection is either in 192 or 320 encoding, would this necessarily make the music sound "bad" when going to a better sound setup, or would it be in my best interest to try to start obtaining FLAC encodes?

 Lastly, if I go the route of getting this card for primarily listening to music, I still plan on keeping my Razer in my computer for 5.1 gaming only. I currently am using a 680i motherboard. I've read that some people have IRQ resource errors when running this card in tandem with 680i's. Would I have any type of issue running both of these cards at the same time and just switching between which I'd like to use through windows sounds and audio devices?

 edit: haha, I totally entered my name into username registration field, doh, w/e I guess._

 

I'd go for the HD650's and get this soundcard. That's going to get you a very solid headphone setup.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Matthew Locklear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, all. I'm new here and have a few questions concerning this card. First of all, I currently am using a Razer Barracuda (from a woot-off) with a set of Logitech Z-5500's w/ optical out for gaming. However, I am looking to get a nice pair of entry level audiophile cans because I find myself listening to music (mostly rock, maybe a little techno and trance) more than playing games these days. I'm looking at possibly getting this soundcard with a pair of HD-595s. 

 Would this pairing be a decent <$400 upgrade (my current budget), or would it be better to go the route of getting the same (or another) pair of cans and an external amp? 

 Would the 595s sound well driven from the headphone output of the Essence? To understand what I mean by "sound well", I've currently only experienced my z-5500's w/ Razer optical out and my old Creative X-Fi Platinum with analog out to a set of Logitech x-530's.

 Most of my music collection is either in 192 or 320 encoding, would this necessarily make the music sound "bad" when going to a better sound setup, or would it be in my best interest to try to start obtaining FLAC encodes?

 Lastly, if I go the route of getting this card for primarily listening to music, I still plan on keeping my Razer in my computer for 5.1 gaming only. I currently am using a 680i motherboard. I've read that some people have IRQ resource errors when running this card in tandem with 680i's. Would I have any type of issue running both of these cards at the same time and just switching between which I'd like to use through windows sounds and audio devices?

 edit: haha, I totally entered my name into username registration field, doh, w/e I guess._

 

a) For the price, I don't think you can find a better DAC. At least I can testify that the STX beats the Zero DAC and ibasso D2 Boa that's so highly rated.

 b) The HD595 doesn't sound well no matter what you use to drive it, I'll recommend you to stick to the HD555 or go for the HD600. Yes, the HD595 sucks, don't waste your money on it.

 c) Using higher bitrate will certainly improve your sound, but using a better phone + setup will improve your sound too. The difference between the mp3 and FLAC is something you'll notice only if you know what to look out for. Nevertheless it's to your own interest to start getting those FLAC.

 d) If you are looking for a gaming + music headphone just get the AD700 and throw your Razer into the garbage bin. 5.1 headphones are a joke.


----------



## Matthew Locklear

I meant I'm using the Razer card, not the headphones.

 edit: and thanks for the input, I'll look into the AD700's.


----------



## Bojamijams

You can't have headphone output and DDL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if this card will output via the headphone amp, with Dolby Headphone and/or the other DSP activated, AND at the same time allow Dolby Digital Live output via the SPDIF connector? I am trying out the HT Omega Claro Halo XT and sadly it doesn't. When Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect are selected to send 5.1 upmixed from games, etc... out the digital output to my receiver, headphone connections are no longer active.
_


----------



## mikemav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't have headphone output and DDL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Okay, thanks. In that case maybe I'm better off letting my HK receiver Dolby Headphone do it's work, and just getting a decent digital output card like the X-Fi Fatal1ty that can encode to DDL or DTS, so there is no point to a card with higher end headphone amp or analog section for me.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@MikeMav, there is also a internal S/Pdif output on the card, However..it may just be a alternate connector to the S/Pdif on the output sheild.


----------



## mikemav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@MikeMav, there is also a internal S/Pdif output on the card, However..it may just be a alternate connector to the S/Pdif on the output sheild._

 

Yeah, if it works like the Claro Halo's, which is built on the same DSP chip as the Asus I believe, it mimics the SPDIF on the back of the card, so it too would be off if DDL is selected. But, that brings up another good point. If I'm going to go digital anyway, the convenience of the internal SPDIF is nice since I can connect it to my Nvidia GTX285's SPDIF header, to allow video and audio (up to 5.1) on the HDMI output of the card.

 It's annoying the X-Fi cards (or Auzentech version?) don't have the SPDIF internal out header like the Asus or Claro cards- seems they want to sell another HDMI add on board for the home theater set (I'm personally not concerend with DTS-MA or other HD audio on this rig.)

 I'd like to try the added EAX and CMSS effects for games the X-Fi formula cards offer if I'm forced to go digital out due to my system design. I'm just not sure those output these effects on top of DDL or DTS Connect? I think I read the newer PCI express versions can and the older ones don't?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am pretty sure this is why the internal S/Pdif output is there. This way you can connect to a GFX card for integration to HDMI... It is such a waste for this card though..
 So you guys, have tried putting the card into heapdhones mode, then clicking the PCM check box?
 This does not do what you want?


----------



## Shahrose

Anyone do further testing with opamps? I'm curious about the LT1364 + LME49720.


----------



## mikemav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am pretty sure this is why the internal S/Pdif output is there. This way you can connect to a GFX card for integration to HDMI... It is such a waste for this card though..
 So you guys, have tried putting the card into heapdhones mode, then clicking the PCM check box?
 This does not do what you want?_

 

Yep, on the other card I'm testing based on the came Crystal chip, internal SPDIF to the GPU's SPDIF to HDMI output works, only on PCM as you say. 

 I was hoping to use DDL or DTS Connect with it for my tacticle feedback 2.1 setup (main listening via headphones). No dice if headphones are connected too however, you lose the ability to encode to surround on the digital output. 

 Shame is, the Creative based cards, such as X-Fi Forte or Fatal1ty PCIe version, will output DDL or DTS Connect (Vista only) on digital and still allow the Creative effects for gaming, but DON'T have the internal SPDIF output header, so digital audio via HDMI would be impossible (or kludgey at best, with coax RCA (external) routed back into the case for 2-pin SPDIF GPU header...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone do further testing with opamps? I'm curious about the LT1364 + LME49720._

 

I am working with some opamps and doing some tests they may be of interest to some here.


----------



## Bluelizard0

Oooh giggidy, just received mine in the post this morning. Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just a quick question - getting slightly confused here, the card will output to more than one speaker/headphone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I.e. I wanna leave my cans in the headphone socket, and put my 2.1 speakers in..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, you can leave your headphones and speakers connected and just switch between them. The card will mute whatever outputs your not using.


----------



## mikemav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can leave your headphones and speakers connected and just switch between them. The card will mute whatever outputs your not using._

 

Hi, no, sorry, I was asking if you can use headphones and Dolby Digital live w/ the digital output (not analog/powered speakers, etc..) I need to use both digital (DDL, not PCM) and headphone at the same time to feed both headphones and a receiver. If I can't use DDL and the card's headphone amp, I'm fine just getting a cheaper X-Fi based card without the headphone amp features, as in that case I'd have to use the headphone jack on my receiver instead, and the sound card would be only digital output in my situation then.

 I was just trying to be able to use 5.1 processing on the digital out (for my other subsystem) and still benefit from the headphone section of this sound card if possible.


----------



## Bojamijams

I would have loved that option too but as mentioned before, you can't drive the headphone AND the DDL.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Hmm, might be something to ask ASUS for can't see it being too much trouble to modify the drivers to do what you guys are asking.


----------



## Bluelizard0

I just find it a little bit odd they've set it out like that.

 Edit - this is a bit of a weird one, but has anybody found that they're getting interference using their case's internal header? It worked fine the first few times, but I recently switched over to use it (Analogue out ->FP Headphone) and I'm getting weird noises. They're related to using my mouse...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit 2- I have to say I'm not that convinced by the Dolby Headphone function either..:/


----------



## ROBSCIX

Try muting the cards recording inputs. Usually if you leave them "floating" -especially the microphone input you will pick up noise form the system bus..


----------



## LightZY

So now it's down to the LT1364 + LM49720 vs LT1364 + LM6172 eh?

 I'm still waiting for my local retailers to restock the essence stx meanwhile, can't wait to try the various op amps combo listed here!


----------



## Bluelizard0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try muting the cards recording inputs. Usually if you leave them "floating" -especially the microphone input you will pick up noise form the system bus.._

 

Hmm that hasn't helped. I re-inserted the cables again just in case there was any interferance but nothing appears to have sorted this. It's weird, it's only just started, and didn't appear the first few times I booted my machine up.

 All the recording devices have been muted.


----------



## riderforever

Hi all, I'd like to have an information regarding the line-in. I need to connect a pre-mic to it: it has one mono TRS for each channel. Since to me it's enough to record one channel at once (line-out R), can I use a single cable with two TRS mono plugs between the pre-mic and the Essence, or do I have to use something like a 

 1 stereo TRS --> 2 mono TRS 

 and leave the other one unplugged?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, You can do that. The line input is stereo though. You could use the mixer to put the mic in the middle of the stereo image. -Or just use one side or the other.
 WIth a mixer you have alot of flexibility.


----------



## riderforever

Fine, thanks. To test the loopback using an external cable do I really need something like this, or the internal loopback won't give too different results?







 I need it just to calibrate the soundcard and correct the frequency response.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can use that for loopback. The output section of the STX far surpases the input section so you will only see part of the picture. I am a bit fuzzy why your doing this?


----------



## Funky-kun

I just got my Essence today, installed it, but stumbled upon a very "What" situation: 

 As far as I know, the Headphone Out section is connected to the HP Amp, logically enough. It seems so, because in the software I can regulate the gain setting and it affects the sound level. But then I began reading the manual and noticed this:






 This part of the manual states that the Left/Right Outs are connected to the amp. Using the Y cable, I connected the headphones (Senn 595) as described, and noticed a very audible increase in bass quantity, making me believe that it is really due to the amp. Still, I had to switch the output from headphones to 2 speakers. I'm really confused about this one, can any of you owners of the card tell me which is the correct way to connect the headphones?

 I'm very sorry if this has already been asked before, I checked the last 10 pages on the thread and didn't find anything like this.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The manual is incorrect in this sense. 
 The left and right line outs are NOT connected to the amplifier. If you have higher impedance heapdhoens whic require 
 amplifier you will need to use the dedicated heapdhone output if not, you can use either. 
 If your heapdhones are the same as mine the HD595's they do not reuiqre a high impedance headphone amplifier, you can use either output.
 the line out or headphone output. However, when you use the line out you lose the headphones features such as Dolby Heapdhones etc.


----------



## Bojamijams

Also the line out doesn't have a lot of current so grados and denons sound a little.. blah


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can use that for loopback. The output section of the STX far surpases the input section so you will only see part of the picture. I am a bit fuzzy why your doing this?_

 

I'd like to calibrate the Essence to get the most accurate room response measure using software like Room EQ Wizard.
 Sometimes we put a lot of efforts in the selection of our hifi gear, but the environment still plays a very important role in the game.
 Oops wait, most of you guys listen to the music using cans!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, can you explain me how to use the internal loopback avoiding the external cable? Is something related to input/output devices?


----------



## Funky-kun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The manual is incorrect in this sense. 
 The left and right line outs are NOT connected to the amplifier. If you have higher impedance heapdhoens whic require 
 amplifier you will need to use the dedicated heapdhone output if not, you can use either. 
 If your heapdhones are the same as mine the HD595's they do not reuiqre a high impedance headphone amplifier, you can use either output.
 the line out or headphone output. However, when you use the line out you lose the headphones features such as Dolby Heapdhones etc._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also the line out doesn't have a lot of current so grados and denons sound a little.. blah_

 

But if it is so, then why does using the headphones with the line out produce noticeably more bass? It is not like the amplifier changes only the loudness of the sound. Or is it the case with this card? I doubt it. I don't really care about the headphone features, because I will be using the card mainly for music listening, but I want to have the best quality in that aspect.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if it is so, then why does using the headphones with the line out produce noticeably more bass? It is not like the amplifier changes only the loudness of the sound. Or is it the case with this card? I doubt it. I don't really care about the headphone features, because I will be using the card mainly for music listening, but I want to have the best quality in that aspect._

 

Unamped line-out signals will sound tilted more towards the bass because you lack the power/energy to let the microdynamics and upper frequencies really shine through. When unamped, said bass will be mushy, flabby, and uncontrolled compared to an adequately amped output. The treble will probably be indistinct and rolled off, and overall dynamics of the sound will be decreased as well. So the net result would be a more bass-heavy signal. But it wouldn't be _quality_ bass in comparison, and the overall sound will be more flat, dull, indistinct, and lifeless.

 Think of it like talking while covering your mouth with your hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or more accurately, trying to talk after you've already exhaled out most of your breath.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to calibrate the Essence to get the most accurate room response measure using software like Room EQ Wizard.
 Sometimes we put a lot of efforts in the selection of our hifi gear, but the environment still plays a very important role in the game._

 

Oops wait, most of you guys listen to the music using cans!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, can you explain me how to use the internal loopback avoiding the external cable? Is something related to input/output devices?

 I use headphones, speakers and studio monitors.

 Loopback without using a cable? -You must be talking about internal loopback through the software mixers. I can't see how this would be good for anything as your always going to get hgiher values as the DAC and ADC is taken out of the loop using this setup. If this is what your talking about.
 I know about Room Eq wizard however, I always considerd it more for surround setups in larger rooms. There are other applications which are meant for the same thing I will have to look at it again.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to calibrate the Essence to get the most accurate room response measure using software like Room EQ Wizard.
 Sometimes we put a lot of efforts in the selection of our hifi gear, but the environment still plays a very important role in the game.
 Oops wait, most of you guys listen to the music using cans!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, can you explain me how to use the internal loopback avoiding the external cable? Is something related to input/output devices?




_

 

Since I have nearfield speakers, surely the environment factor isn't as much of a factor? (Stereo positioning [most noticeably height] is of course, you dunno how much I've spent time wise adjusting them to get them right!).


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Loopback without using a cable? -You must be talking about internal loopback through the software mixers. I can't see how this would be good for anything as your always going to get hgiher values as the DAC and ADC is taken out of the loop using this setup. If this is what your talking about._

 

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know which is the exact path that the signal follows when the internal loopback is used, anyway I've read it's a way to remove protections from DRM files recording them (with ADC) just after the conversion into analog (with DAC). 
 So using that kind of loopback the frequency response characterization should be preserved.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know about Room Eq wizard however, I always considerd it more for surround setups in larger rooms. There are other applications which are meant for the same thing I will have to look at it again._

 

Yes I think it was created with multichannel setups in mind, but it can be used for 2ch systems as well.
 I'd like to point out other two really interesting links on the topic:
Duff Room Correction
DRC - Home


----------



## fanks

Hi guys,

 just ordered the Essence based on the response here.

 I'm using the ESI nEar 05 monitors and is wondering what is the best method to connect the Essence to them with the highest audio quality possible.
 I'm still beginner and would like advice on which types of cable or splitter is required to do the job.

 Any help will be appreciated. Fanks


----------



## LightZY

It seems that the ESI nEar05 accepts XLR cables but the essence stx only has RCAs outputs for speakers' usage.

 So you need a RCA to XLR cable or adapter. 

Neutrik NA2FPMM Female XLR to Male RCA Connector, Wired | Full Compass <- This is the adapter if you are using male to male XLR cables i think. I'm not too sure myself either.


----------



## fanks

yea the nEar has both XLR and TRS.
 But am i restricted to just the RCA for speakers?
 Or is there dual XLR/TRS to RCA cable?

 I doesn't want to talk to salesperson because im sure they will get me to buy the expensive ones. But googling doesn't seems to gives me any answers so i'm wondering what are most of you guys using for your speakers.

 cheers


----------



## LightZY

You have to get the XLR cables (which i think in this case 2 of them, 1 for Right and 1 for Left channel) and 2 adapters to convert the XLR to RCA end where u can plug the RCA ends into the soundcard.

 However, i think there are such cables where it's terminated with 1 male RCA and 1 male XLR plugs by default, which would be the best scenario for your case.


----------



## fanks

Any idea will there be interference noises using RCA?
 Thank you very much LightZY i will head to the store to check it out.


----------



## LightZY

You mean the interference by EMI and the likes? If so, yes. RCA is more prone to noise compared to XLR cables however you can help the situation by wrapping ERS paper or aluminum foils around the cables.

 Personally, i wrapped all of my cables with 2 layers of aluminum foil the difference is noticeable.

 At the side note, please re-check with the salesman if what they say tally with the information I've posted so as not to waste your money and time.

 Well at least, you have a head start on what to look out for now!

 Enjoy this audio journey,

 Cheers


----------



## genclaymore

Did you wrap the whole cable or just the tips?


----------



## LightZY

The whole cable including part of the head.


----------



## dex85

is anybody having problems with gaming on essence? im using vista 64 and the newest drivers for essence and the only games that don't crash are Mass Effect and Rainbow Six Vegas II. i tried Fallout 3, Call of Duty 5 and SC
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





ouble Agent and they all crashed within few minutes of playing. seems like asus has a lot of work ahead with proper drivers.

 music-wise it's fantastic. i'm absolutely enjoying it, especially with songs that weren't mastered with dynamic range compresion.


----------



## Bmac

I'm using XP and the only time it's ever given me problems was when I was using GS3D or whatever it's called in Fallout 3. It didn't crash but the audio would skip like a scratched record or cd. I got out, went to hi-fi mode the way I normally do and went back in and everything has been fine.

 I don't know if the OS is making any difference but maybe try in hi-fi mode?


----------



## dex85

yeah, i tried that too, but to no avail. generally, i think that 64-bit os owners' punishment days are still not over


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is anybody having problems with gaming on essence? im using vista 64 and the newest drivers for essence and the only games that don't crash are Mass Effect and Rainbow Six Vegas II. i tried Fallout 3, Call of Duty 5 and SC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ouble Agent and they all crashed within few minutes of playing. seems like asus has a lot of work ahead with proper drivers.

 music-wise it's fantastic. i'm absolutely enjoying it, especially with songs that weren't mastered with dynamic range compresion._

 

Those games not crashing for me then again I have the HDAV13 and not the STX.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dex58, Watch the sample rate setting on the card. It can cause troubles with some games if yu set it to high. I remember this was a issue with COD:WAW...
 Keep the smapling rate at 44.1Khz and see if this helps clear up some of the gaming issues your having.


----------



## dex85

^^it didn't help either. i can't think of anything else but a soundcard being a problem here. my pc is a rock stable in stressing benchmarks, also those two games i mentioned are working with no issues at all.


----------



## m0ofassa

Xonar appreciation from me. I A/B'd an xfi vs d2x today and there was no contest. Xfi sounded relatively bassy and muddy compared to the d2x which is smooth and creamy in comparison... looks like I need to get an external DAC now.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Also consider that the Essence STX surpasses the D2/D2X for sound quality.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Dex58, Watch the sample rate setting on the card. It can cause troubles with some games if yu set it to high. I remember this was a issue with COD:WAW...
 Keep the smapling rate at 44.1Khz and see if this helps clear up some of the gaming issues your having._

 

That issue's been fixed in the latest COD:WAW patch.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m0ofassa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xonar appreciation from me. I A/B'd an xfi vs d2x today and there was no contest. Xfi sounded relatively bassy and muddy compared to the d2x which is smooth and creamy in comparison... looks like I need to get an external DAC now._

 

Depends which X-fi tbh.


----------



## twhtpclover

Probably only the modded XFI can win Xonar

 Edit: on second thought... maybe just equal.. , they can hardly beat Xonar... but on thierd thought, then audio is just persoanal taste, how do you judge win or lose... meh... I'm just murmuring now...


----------



## ROBSCIX

ASUS showed off the ST model at CeBit.


----------



## Bojamijams

ST? You mean the STX?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, I mean the ST.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ST? You mean the STX?_

 

ST is the PCI version. I was waiting for it, but with no release date scheduled, I just went for the PCI-E STX.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The ST sounds very good. There are some design differences aside from the PCI interface.

 ASUS also showed off other cards, just this was the first time they showed the ST to the public. They also showed their HDMI only HDAV 1.3 slim card.


----------



## riderforever

Please don't tell us that the ST sounds better than the STX!!


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please don't tell us that the ST sounds better than the STX!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would be a shame. But I'll have a pci slot free ("go away creative, go!")...


----------



## chinesekiwi

If the ST does sound better = actually great for me as due to motherboard design, an *ASUS!!!!!!* motherboard, I have to position my Essence STX right below my graphics card = not ideal.


----------



## Zaubertuba

I'm looking at upgrading my long-of-tooth Audigy card, and was waiting on doing that because I was looking to get an external dac/amp combo first---then I stumbled on this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Small catch, I do a small amount of composing arranging (not nearly as much as I do listening), so I do still need some kind of synth for my M-audio keystation (it's a basic midi/usb keyboard controller) to drive.

 Maybe I'm blind, and I know it's not the primary purpose of this card, but I'm not seeing a hardware synth anywhere in the specs. Can anybody clarify for me if this card has a synthesizer or not? Or does anyone have experience doing their own composing with this card?

 EDIT: By composing/arranging, I mean writing out scores in Finale--I don't do any sequencing, I just need to be able to listen to my score as I work on it.


----------



## Zaubertuba

Also--forgot to ask this... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...has anyone used this card with their HD555's? If so, impressions?


----------



## oca

please help omg, i just found this AFTER installing the xonar.

 What do i do? (and also what is it?/whats it used for?)

 edit: sorry that sounded really rude, im just freaking out.


----------



## oca

found where its gone from and its TWO capacitors that are missing..dear god

 are they essential?


----------



## chinesekiwi

I'd say RMA the thing.


----------



## oca

RMA?


----------



## Bojamijams

RMA = return merchandise authorization

 ie.. exhchange it for a new card from the place you bought it from as its defective.


----------



## oca

postage and handling is going to cost so much


----------



## DarkScythe

It's better than having an even more expensive dead card/paperweight.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, you need to send it back.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Back on the subject of the Essence ST.

 The ST card also has a Pin Header which allows interface for expansion boards.


----------



## riderforever

boards used for...? Other channels like HDAV?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, so the card allows 7.1 analog output along with all of the headphones features of the STX. Much more versatile design in my opinion.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zaubertuba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also--forgot to ask this... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...has anyone used this card with their HD555's? If so, impressions?_

 

comparing to portable players and receiver i had been using with HD555, the amount of details, clarity and sounds separation is on another level. it also sounds smoother in my opinion. the only problem i have is digital volume attenuation. at level where i'm most comfortable with loudness(about 12-15%), the dynamic range takes a big hit. it gets much better at >20%, but it's too loud for my taste. that only stands for songs that were mastered with loudness war in mind, otherwise i set volume to 30% and more.


----------



## scytheavatar

I don't get the hate for "digital volume attenuation", you guys do realize that your carbon pot has just as big a negative influence on your noise, do you?


----------



## dex85

i can only speak for myself, but below 15% it sounds almost flat to me, without ups and downs. i don't get that feeling when listening to my headphones at those volume leves from receiver. it's practically a non-issue above 20-25%, so what else do you think could be a cause of this?


----------



## Bojamijams

Aw man. I don't like that the PCI version is better then the PCI-E with that expansion ability


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aw man. I don't like that the PCI version is better then the PCI-E with that expansion ability 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think you can call it better. Just offers some different options. Many people that bought the card for headphones really have no interest in speakers.
 Personally though, I like the idea of being able to expand the card if need be.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aw man. I don't like that the PCI version is better then the PCI-E with that expansion ability 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too. They should have thought it in advance and have put that feature in the PCI-X as well. They have already done it with the HDAV, so they didn't have to rediscover the wheel again.
 If an owner of the STX wants to build a multichannel setup what should he do? Sell his card (losing half of the money) and buy the ST one?!
 I really think it's a nonsense


----------



## genclaymore

maybe they will sell the expand card as a seperate product, which would be good news for me. That way I dont feel like I kicked my self for getting the HDAV13 non deluxe. As I hoping to change my reciver to a better one in the future.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me too. They should have thought it in advance and have put that feature in the PCI-X as well. They have already done it with the HDAV, so they didn't have to rediscover the wheel again.
 If an owner of the STX wants to build a multichannel setup what should he do? Sell his card (losing half of the money) and buy the ST one?!
 I really think it's a nonsense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The STX still offers Dolby Digital Live output so if the STX users wants to build a multichannel setup they can still use DDL.
 I have been testing the ST for awhile and I am very impressed with this card.


----------



## twhtpclover

2 new awards for the day:

Overclock3D – Best in Class + Innovation Award
*“Frankly, incredible”*



Futurelooks – High Performance Award
*“The best music experience you’ll ever have on a set of headphones on a PC”*


----------



## henuM

Quote:


 I have been testing the ST for awhile and I am very impressed with this card. 
 

Hi, *ROBSCIX*, thanks so much for review on Guru3D!
 And about Essence ST - is there any improvements for stereo setup? Or differences only in PCI interface and multichannel add-on card? I have STX, stereo setup(headphones+2.0) and thinking to sell STX now, or not


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *henuM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, *ROBSCIX*, thanks so much for review on Guru3D!
 And about Essence ST - is there any improvements for stereo setup? Or differences only in PCI interface and multichannel add-on card? I have STX, stereo setup(headphones+2.0) and thinking to sell STX now, or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There will be some information coming out in the next few days regarding the ST.
 I would wait until the reviews of the production version come out before you decide to sell your STX. This card is very new and still on the drawing board in some respects.


----------



## henuM

Thanks for the info! I'll be waiting for those reviews.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There will be some information coming out in the next few days regarding the ST.
 I would wait until the reviews of the production version come out before you decide to sell your STX. This card is very new and still on the drawing board in some respects._

 

Can you atleast tell us some basic points where the ST differs from the STX?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Pin Header, There is also a different clocking circuit then what is on the STX.


----------



## Bojamijams

I just can't understand Asus. Why release a new soundcard, thats better then the card you just released a month ago? What?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The ST, is different meant for a different market. Again, as to if it is better or not is a opinion.


----------



## riderforever

Can you briefly explain which kind of differences are you experiencing during your listening sessions, between the STX and ST?


----------



## riderforever

Is there any difference between these OPA2134PA?

_STACKED BURR BROWN OPA2134PA + GOLD IC SOCKET_





_OPA2134PA IC'S [CHIPS]_





_2 Stück Burr Brown OPA2134PA_





 Since the last is the cheapest I'd go for it


----------



## ROBSCIX

They would be the same. Are you getting different prices for two dealers?
 The part# is what your looking for, Those are the same ones I have always used OPA2134PA's.

 What does "STACKED BURR BROWN OPA2134PA + GOLD IC SOCKET" mean?
 Never heard that one before. Unless your getting them already installed in a socket ready for soldering on a board.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pin Header, There is also a different clocking circuit then what is on the STX._

 

I'm not sure what effect the clocking circuit would have on the sound.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX still offers Dolby Digital Live output so if the STX users wants to build a multichannel setup they can still use DDL.
 I have been testing the ST for awhile and I am very impressed with this card._

 

Any difference in sound quality?


----------



## riderforever

*@ROBSCIX* yes, they are priced differently. I've added the links to the relative pages

*@Shahrose* take a look here. 
 BTW, which are the specs of the Essence clock? Would it be very hard to replace?


----------



## rodomenr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX still offers Dolby Digital Live output so if the STX users wants to build a multichannel setup they can still use DDL.
 I have been testing the ST for awhile and I am very impressed with this card._

 

Hi ROBSCIX, Could you upload some images of the ST?


----------



## Shahrose

It wouldn't make sense for Asus to produce a 7.1 card that has better SQ unless they priced it higher. Otherwise, it'll eat out from the STX's market, which is limited to only 2-channel analog compared to the 8 channel analog output of the ST. 
 So, I'm not so concerned with this new release.


----------



## rodomenr

Here is the first image of ST I saw:





 I don't want to wait, still is the same card, I go for the STX


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodomenr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the first image of ST I saw:




 I don't want to wait, still is the same card, I go for the STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is it just me or does the description say "inpedance"?


----------



## Bojamijams

heh indeed inpedance


----------



## riderforever

Again on the clock, I've noticed that the amazing clock is priced around 120$ . I'm not sure it's worth the price and can't realize if it could make a big difference on the Essence over the default one...


----------



## dex85

it says complete dolby technologies. does this mean it could internally decode or pass through new Dolby HD formats?


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Rodomenr, That is a shot from the card at Cebit.

 I have the engineering sample of the complete Deluxe model of the ST. Complete with cable and daughter board. We should be posting all the pics and information tommorow.


----------



## kuben

This is Xonar Essence ST or Xoner Essence ST like on the image?


----------



## genclaymore

heh i just notice the typo. some one made a woopsy.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The base card is yes. However, there is more to the card then just the base. 
 This base card offers pretty much the same fetaures as the STX.
 You connect a cable ot the Pin header and add another smaller board which gives the user the rest of the channel needed for 7.1
 To note, the DAC expansion card also has the same 3 opamp configuration.

 As for the spelling mistake, much of the tech specs for their gear is translated.


----------



## Shahrose

I've been testing 3xLME49720 in the STX for the past little while and I prefer this combination over any other I've tested. Now I'm just waiting for the LT1364 to arrive from Digikey so I can check how it fares in the buffer spot.

 My findings are that the 49720s give the STX a very refined, non-grating treble that isn't rolled off. It's a pleasure to listen to. I also noticed soundstage depth increased in front of me (significant improvement), but the width remained the same. However, one change that some may not like is that it decreased the bass punch slightly. Overall, I feel it is an upgrade from the stock sound and every other opamp combination I've tested thus far. 
 In short, the LME49720 give the STX an airier and less-fatiguing quality.

 Edit: I also noticed that with these opamps, the frequency response seems more even. I felt there was an upper midrange, as well as midbass peak with the default opamps (caused by the JRC2114) which has now been removed.
 As an aside, I want to mention that so far my findings of opamp characteristics has been nearly identical to those of scytheavatar's. I guess we hear alike.


----------



## Bojamijams

Remember though.. every time you think you've found that "IT" sound, compare it with the stock sound again to make sure

 Sometimes when you test different opamps and you forget the original sound.. so it sounds better then some failed experients sure, but is it still better then original?

 A lot of op-amp mixes fail here as the asus audio engineer knew what he was going when mixing a pair of 2114 and 4562... good synergy


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Remember though.. every time you think you've found that "IT" sound, compare it with the stock sound again to make sure

 Sometimes when you test different opamps and you forget the original sound.. so it sounds better then some failed experients sure, but is it still better then original?

 A lot of op-amp mixes fail here as the asus audio engineer knew what he was going when mixing a pair of 2114 and 4562... good synergy_

 

Agreed. I'm a big proponent of constant referrals to the default sound, to verify improvements and rule out placebo. Every opamp I tried prior to these brought about subtle positive AND negative changes. I always found myself going back to the default setup and being impressed with what I heard. 

 Rest assured, this combination is definitely an upgrade from stock. I don't feel the magic I do with the 49720 when I go back to stock. The stock has some things I like too though. It has a very quick hard-hitting bass (better than the LME49720). The 2114's also exhibit a prominent upper midrange (good for some vocals but bad for many other songs) as well as a somewhat harsh treble on some recordings (more prominent at higher volumes), which is completely absent from the LME49720.


----------



## Bojamijams

I noticed the harsh treble too ... glad to hear it fixes that.. I'll definetly keep that in mind when I find a new pair of 'home' cans


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been testing 3xLME49720 in the STX for the past little while and I prefer this combination over any other I've tested. Now I'm just waiting for the LT1364 to arrive from Digikey so I can check how it fares in the buffer spot.

 My findings are that the 49720s give the STX a very refined, non-grating treble that isn't rolled off. It's a pleasure to listen to. I also noticed soundstage depth increased in front of me, but the width remained the same. However, one change that some may not like is that it decreased the bass punch slightly. Overall, I feel it is an upgrade from the stock sound and every other opamp combination I've tested thus far. 
 In short, the LME49720 give the STX an airier and less-fatiguing quality.

 Edit: I also noticed that with these opamps, the frequency response seems more even. I felt there was an upper midrange, as well as midbass peak with the default opamps (caused by the JRC2114) which has now been removed.
 As an aside, I want to mention that so far my findings of opamp characteristics has been nearly identical to those of scytheavatar's. I guess we hear alike._

 


 You can add me to the list of LME49720-as-I/V converts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Late last week I realized that I had _two_ LM4562's lying around (1 from the STX, 1 from the HDAV), and it dawned on me that I hadn’t really given them a chance to show what they could do on their own away from the influence of the 2114’s, so for the last several days I’ve been trying them out in a few different configurations, and I must say that overall I like ‘em quite a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When paired with the right opamps, the LME49720/LM4562’s in the I/V spots do provide a beautifully airy and musical sound that does not seem at all digital or flat like I found them to be in other applications. And like you and scytheavatar, I noticed the mid/upper bass sludge disappear as well. So it seems that it’s the 2114’s from the stock setup that I'm ultimately dissatisfied with. In, fact, I think I’ve found a new favorite setup that actually makes use of the 4562’s.

 Anyway, I’ve actually been working on another write-up of various different setups I've tried while listening through the RCA-outs to my Corda Opera. Here are the ones w/ 2xLM4562's as I/V. Note that I have not yet tested the headphone-out w/ these.


 “Excellent” setups: These three configs offer a noticeable improvement over the stock setup, either tying or surpassing stock in most respects IMO. Little to no compromises made here compared to stock.

*1) 2xLM4562 1xLM6172 (My new favorite)*
 Soundstage – Just as tall and wide as stock, but also deeper. Your position is more intimate than stock as you are placed onstage and right in-with/in-front-of the musicians, whereas you’re in the 1st or 2nd row of the audience w/ the stock setup. The soundstage is also more coherent all around than stock, especially for sound sources that move around within the sound field. By comparison, stock can feel a little stretched out too far to the sides like taffy and starts to get that “3-sound-blobs” effect between left, right, and center with some music. There is none of that here.

 Imaging - Instrument focus and solidity is significantly better, as is low-level detail - both being about the same as my old favorite (2x6172/1x1364). Many background instruments that sounded in stock like they’re part of a flat backdrop of sound behind the primary musicians have good 3D imaging here. This combo makes best use of the whole soundstage of any setup I’ve tried, and does the best job of portraying image depth and distance as well as giving each instrument their own unique position in space. Strings and horns have more texture and body and sound more realistic than either stock or the other setups in this class. Bass impact and attack is still there like the ol’ 2x6172, and percussion instruments (including piano) sound noticeably better here than in stock or setup #2 below, as they have the focused imaging and speed of attack that beautifully reproduces their visceral THWAP!! and reverberations, neither of which can be quite matched by the other setups (although #3 is close). The added attack, detail and imaging combine to make it easy to pinpoint exactly where and how a drum is being hit (e.g. – with bongos, whether their getting hit with fingertips or heel of the hand, in the membrane’s center or along the edge, etc). 

 Tonality - It’s tonally similar to stock, but with slightly hefter overtones and possibly slightly stronger mids as well. It sounds just as natural though due to the more intimate soundstage since instruments do tend to sound like they have more weight and stronger mids when heard up close. But the overall sound is not bass-tilted like my old favorite 2x6172 was, which I now feel were ultimately coloured too dark to be ideal for me. Bottom harmonics on all instruments/voices have also improved. Male voices especially are better, and now have the weight and power they should have.

*
 2) 2xLM4562 1xLT1364*
 Soundstage - BIG open spherical soundstage, about as wide as stock but a bit taller and deeper as well. You’re sitting maybe 1 or 2 rows further back than stock, which is great for classical music and other live performances, but can make you feel slightly detached from the music in small venues. It also is the airiest of the setups I’ve tried, and does the best job at making headphones disappear and transporting you into the actual location.

 Imaging - Attack is not as sharp or fast as the other two configs. Details are a little soft around the edges and some are lost completely that can be heard on the other two, although the differences are quite minor. Imaging is also not as 3D. However, all of this works together in this setup’s favor since it makes the sound VERY realistic and what you’d expect to hear from sitting in the audience of a real concert hall. Percussion instruments though lack weight and impact and can tend to sound a little indistinct, but maybe still a hair better than stock. 

 Tonality - Overall tonal signature is slightly brighter than stock, but the mids aren’t recessed like they are in #3 below. Tonal reproduction of choirs, pipe organ, piano, flute, clarinets are spot on. Trumpets and other horns are close too, but there’s not quite enough lower harmonics to the individual instruments, making them sound a little lightweight. However, it actually adds to the “concert hall” feel. Strings suffer from this a little as well, but they do have more texture and detail than stock. There may be a little too much upper bass making the low-end slightly smeared and congested - but then stock suffers from this too - and mid/low bass rolls off a tiny bit too soon. 

*3) 2x4562 1xLME49860*
 Soundstage – Big soundstage, pretty much the same as stock, maybe a little deeper, but not as deep as #1.

 Imaging – Much more focused than stock. Pretty much a mirror of #1 but with a touch more low-level detail. There aren't any *more* details than #1, but the sound has more treble energy so that details that are there are a touch more prominent. Holographic imaging is about as tight/focused as #1 as well, although the sense of varying depth isn't quite as good.

 Tonality - It’s a little brighter than stock, and the brightest of the 3 configs here. OTOH it’s much more refined than stock as it has setup #1’s precision, cleanliness, control, imaging, attack, and texture, but with a brighter overall presentation. However, there’s not as much body as #1 or stock, and the mids seem a bit recessed in this config (possibly due to the forward treble), which can make some music sound a little on the weak side.


----------



## 12Bass

FWIW, from what I've read from a former National Semiconductor employee, the LME49860 is the same part as the LM4562/LME49720, although the 49860s have been tested to ensure reliable functionality at a higher voltage. Thus, I would not expect any significant differences among these parts.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You would think that based on the info from different sources and it has been suggested before in a few forums. However, many suggest otherwise when actually listening to the chips. I have yet to perform these test myself so I am neutral on this topic.


----------



## Bluelizard0

I haven't read all 72 pages of this long thread, but essentially I've been getting snippets of "Asio" etc., and hearing how it really improves playback. Is the Essence compatible with it? I have tried to load it into Winamp but music doesn't start?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, from what I've read from a former National Semiconductor employee, the LME49860 is the same part as the LM4562/LME49720, although the 49860s have been tested to ensure reliable functionality at a higher voltage. Thus, I would not expect any significant differences among these parts._

 

The initial silicon may have been the same, but the specs on their website are different enough between the LME49860 and LME49720/LM4562 that I suspect that significant changes were made to the final product, which would cast some doubt on the validity of any assumptions/expectations about their sonic similarities. Kinda like Intel CPU's, which in the past have undergone significant changes in voltage, FSB, clock multiplier, # of cores / amount of L2 cache enabled, etc after binning. They may have started out from the same wafer but it looks like the final product is somewhat different. I guess I'll find out this weekend as I have a pair of LME49720's and LME49860's on order from Digikey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @Bluelizard0, ASIO works perfectly for me in Winamp under WinXP. Use the link in my signature to download the plugin if you haven't already, and make sure you copy the correct .dll file for your particular CPU into the plugins directory. Of course, this is if you have WinXP. If you're using Vista I believe WASAPI is what you want to use.


----------



## Alydon

Okay, I got home from work to find my Digikey package waiting for me so I've been playing w/ the LME49720's now... And I can say with confidence that they do *not* sound the same as the LME49860! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I pulled out the 49860 from the buffer spot and put in a 49720 and the first thing I noticed immediately is that the mids have returned, in force! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact they might be a little too forward for my tastes, not sure yet. Bass is more prevalent as well. The sound is more forward, dynamic and detailed, the soundstage deeper and more coherent, and instruments sound heftier and are a step closer than when the 49860 was the buffer. OTOH the 49860 has a slight edge in 3D imaging, and has a more forward treble that is a little smoother/cleaner. The 49720's treble currently seems a touch brittle, but I've only been using it for about an hour so that may very well change as it settles in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All around a nice improvement over the 49860. It remains to be seen if it can topple the LM6172 in the buffer spot in my eyes, though.


----------



## Bluelizard0

@Alydon, thanks for your reply fella. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm on Vista 64, is there a plugin/extension I should be using? I use Winamp, but nothing seems to exist on their plug-in section. 

 Edit, after a quick search, only Foobar has a plugin.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I posted a new thread for the newly released Xonar Essence ST Sneak peak.


----------



## Winterlord

And to think that only a few weeks ago I though the STX is meant to remain the best sound card out there..
 Any word on pricing? will the add on module be bundled with the retail version or will it be sold individually?

 Anyway, that card looks really great and now it means that I could place it well below the EMI factory I have for a video card.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bluelizard0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't read all 72 pages of this long thread, but essentially I've been getting snippets of "Asio" etc., and hearing how it really improves playback. Is the Essence compatible with it? I have tried to load it into Winamp but music doesn't start? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ASIO should work fine with the STX. I am listening to the ASIO plugin now on the ST but am 100% sure I have used it on the STX also along with many others. Check your settings for the plugin.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Winterlord, I just set up a new thread for the ST as it keeps the info seperate and opinions for both cards.


----------



## fine art acoustic

Dear ROBSCIX,
 I'am German so sorry for my bad english. You and the threads Xonar HDAV deluxe and this thread here brought me to become a member here. Many thanks in advance for you and all the guys here on this thread for the informations and impression they give. Right know I'am realy interested on the Xonar ST and on the option to have a realy nice 7.1 Analog set up for my Amp's. So please let us know more about the ST asap if you can(i have read already the Xonar Essence ST Sneak Preview). Many thanks in advance


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fine art acoustic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear ROBSCIX,
 I'am German so sorry for my bad english. You and the threads Xonar HDAV deluxe and this thread here brought me to become a member here. Many thanks in advance for you and all the guys here on this thread for the informations and impression they give. Right know I'am realy interested on the Xonar ST and on the option to have a realy nice 7.1 Analog set up for my Amp's. So please let us know more about the ST asap if you can(i have read already the Xonar Essence ST Sneak Preview). Many thanks in advance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I set up a new thread for the ST, to help keep things organized for the users.
 Can you post your questions there?


----------



## fine art acoustic

yes I will go over there, thanks a lot


----------



## northfaceseen

You guys gotta try out two Burr-Brown OPA627AU's on a Brown Dog Adapter. These are very pricey but the sound is top notch. Gonna have to gimme some more time to compare with my previous setups. I will try with my other op amps I have:

 -Stock Setting
 -Burr-Brown 2134 (I have 2 of these)
 -LM6172 (I have 3 of these)
 -LT1361 (I have 1 of these)
 -LT1364 (I have 1 of these)

 Cans I will be testing with will be HD650's stock cable and Denon D7000's

 So far I will only be able to test the HP out on the card, but I might be purchasing a Headroom Micro Ultra Amp!!!

 Here is a link to the adapters I am using.
Single-to-dual Op-Amp Adapter (p/n 020302)


----------



## ROBSCIX

There was earlier notes, where a person had tried the 627's in the buffer position of the STX and noted the sound quality declined. Nobody has said they have tried them in the I/V positions yet though. Lets us know how your tests go.


----------



## VykRO

*Alydon*, 10x very much for your detailed comments. It's always great to see members experimenting with OPAMPs configurations and moreover, sharing their findings.

*ROBSCIX*, many 10x for the sneak preview. I'm already thinking about building another HTPC and using the ST...to bad that it's only in PCI version, I really hope that it will be also a PCx version as hi-end miniITX motherboards have only PCIx connection.

 I also wanted to ask you what do you think about using a STX in a carPC? I know that there are many folks here on the forum using stereo setup/HP so my question may be rather exotic (compared to the general use of the STX) but why not a car PC soundcard? I really think (after reading the whole topic) that it will be a really competitive setup...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VykRO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*ROBSCIX*, many 10x for the sneak preview. I'm already thinking about building another HTPC and using the ST...to bad that it's only in PCI version, I really hope that it will be also a PCx version as hi-end miniITX motherboards have only PCIx connection.

 I also wanted to ask you what do you think about using a STX in a carPC? I know that there are many folks here on the forum using stereo setup/HP so my question may be rather exotic (compared to the general use of the STX) but why not a car PC soundcard? I really think (after reading the whole topic) that it will be a really competitive setup..._

 

Thx, The future of the ST is really uncertain, what will or wll not be released with the card..etc. The HDAV 1.3 has the same expansion baord and is PCI-E and offers 120dB compared to the STX/ST 124dB. You could always go with the HDAV 1.3 Deluxe.
 The STX could offer some great sound in a car, however You have only stereo output if you were looking for more channels again, look at the HDAV1.3 Deluxe.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Back on the STX, has anybody tried out any discrete opamps with the STX?
 Such as the Burson or Audio-Gd units?


----------



## VykRO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX could offer some great sound in a car, however You have only stereo output if you were looking for more channels again, look at the HDAV1.3 Deluxe._

 

Although initially I was looking for a 5.1 setup for my car I will stick to stereo and that's why STX will match as a glove in the system...I will come back with feddback after finishing the setup but I estimate mid summer as target end of set-up (in this time of year until May I am/will be really really busy).


----------



## Loempiaja

Hi all,
 I recently switched from onboard sound to a Xonar Essence STX. I'm using a Sennheiser HD595.
 Unfortunately I can't really say that I'm blown away. If I enable SVN (Smart Volume Something) I really hear a lot of background noise. Does anyone have this same problem? If I disable SVN the noise more or less disappears, but there still seems to be some noise in silent moments in music. Doesn't matter if it's MP3 or lossless.
 Anyone have a clue what the problem could be?


----------



## DarkRegion

Not blown away meaning you dont notice a difference in sound quality or what? 

 I noticed a good difference between my xfi elite pro and the STX.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, I got home from work to find my Digikey package waiting for me so I've been playing w/ the LME49720's now... And I can say with confidence that they do *not* sound the same as the LME49860! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I pulled out the 49860 from the buffer spot and put in a 49720 and the first thing I noticed immediately is that the mids have returned, in force! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact they might be a little too forward for my tastes, not sure yet. Bass is more prevalent as well. The sound is more forward, dynamic and detailed, the soundstage deeper and more coherent, and instruments sound heftier and are a step closer than when the 49860 was the buffer. OTOH the 49860 has a slight edge in 3D imaging, and has a more forward treble that is a little smoother/cleaner. The 49720's treble currently seems a touch brittle, but I've only been using it for about an hour so that may very well change as it settles in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All around a nice improvement over the 49860. It remains to be seen if it can topple the LM6172 in the buffer spot in my eyes, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great, detailed impressions. I'm glad you share my opinion of the LME49720s. I actually tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot and found it added slightly to the bass but also had a characteristic lower midrange hump that I did not enjoy with my cans. I also tried the OPA2107 in the buffer spot and was surprised to find a dramatic increase in transient response and overall energy. It added some lower treble and some midbass (all in a pleasing way) and it made the HD650's sound FAST and detailed. Between the OPA2107 and the LME49720, I personally prefer the slightly deeper soundstage and softer sound of the LME, but I would not say that they are superior to the OPA's. In fact, I prefer the OPA with some genres and the LME with others. 

 I've noticed that the 49720 have a bit less bass than what I like. So, I'm planning to try to the OPA2137 and maybe the OPA627/637 in the buffer spot.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Sharose, The 2107 is a great audio opamp for many applications. I used it in the I/V positions and recently tried in the buffer as you said it is a very detailed amp.
 I have got in a few new units to tes and I will be ordering some Adpaters for some others I want to try out. It is great so many people are trying out different opamps and posting their results.


----------



## ADD

Hi everyone,

 I have now had my new Essence STX for 10 days now. It replaced my Xonar D2 PCI card. I'm not going to go into detail, since so many have already done that. What I will say is that if you are hesitating to upgrade to the Essence from the previous Xonar and sound quality is what matters, there is no need to hesitate. The improvements are obvious fom the very first bar of music - this card is in a whole different class to the Xonar. It's as much better than the old Xonar as the old Xonar is better than a standard Creative card. And that is really saying something, since every Creative card I have ever heard really does sound abysmal.

 For me, the main purpose in upgrading was twofold. One was I wanted a better quality analogue to digital conversion and secondly I felt that the demands I was placing on the old Xonar were saturating my PCI bus. I seem to have had success on both counts.

 The analogue to digital conversion on this soundcard is absolutely top notch - noticeably better than the old Xonar. Tonally it is subjectively much more accurate, it's smoother with less grain, and no hardness anywhere, timbres are more accurately reproduced and the phase, channel balance and imaging seem much better. With my old Xonar, I always felt like the sound left to right was a bit unbalanced, but in such a way that simply changing the balance did not seem to make it right. And the imaging was always vague, particularly on the right hand side of the orchestra. I don't have any such problems at all with the Essence.

 The other good news is that even though the digital output still does not seem to resolve higher than 16 bits (according to my standalone Sony PCM recorders), the improved processing quality of the analogue outputs carries through to the digital outputs too. The digital output really does sound great. I can make DAT quality synced recordings from the coaxial output from an original analogue source and it is extremely difficult indeed to tell the difference. With the old Xonar, the differences were quite obvious to the trained ear.

 Infact my only "gripe" with the Essence is that when using a sensitive IEM, the volume level of the headphone output is often too high even when the master volume is set at 0 and the output is set for the lowest sensitivity (shown as < 64 ohms).

 This requires that I will often need to adjust other volume sliders. For example, I am listening to analogue radio at the moment via the Essence using it's Dolby Headphone function. I have the master volume at zero but have also had to turn down the seperate channel playback sliders too! So unfortunately, just having the simple master volume is sometimes not enough. Volume 0 is plenty loud with a typical IEM with high sensitivity and often just too loud without adjusting the other sliders too!

 So my only criticism is that perhaps they could have offered a 4th headphone setting - "IEM" - that simply attenuates the output another 15 dB or so. That would let me use the master volume as per normal and save extra mouse clicking and adjusting other volume controls (and having to reset them back too don't forget).

 Apart from that, this is a wonderful card that is really amazing value. I'm not going to pretend it is in the same class as my Musical Fidelity XCans with their NOS Amperex tubes. It isn't in the same class. But it is very listenable with no fatigue. Certainly the best sound I've ever heard out of a computer at any rate. Seems a bargain at less than $300 given that it is a half decent headphone amp that has a brilliant ADC circuit onboard and a host of quality DSP options too.


----------



## riderforever

Does the Essence have the ALT loopback functionality? I don't see it among the recording devices...


----------



## alexanderino

Good post, ADD. I've just plugged in my Sennheiser HD555 phones for the first time, and -- my goodness, is it a revelation ever! I'm hearing notes and details that were never there before!
  Quote:


 'Moroccan Sunset' by Joe Satriani || 1995:Joe Satriani/08 || <Instrumental Rock> Monkey's Audio@742kbps High 
 

Using foobar2000 0.9.6.4 beta 1, ASIO out, PPHS resampler @ 192000 Hz, volume at -20dB.

 Very impressed with the STX, and I can see it gaining a significant following in no time.


----------



## Bmac

I agree ADD with the normal gain setting being too high for some cans. I have sensitive ears, and use 701's through WMP with the volume at max in WMP. With these settings I only have to listen at volume level 1 through the Xonar software (or system volume) to achieve a comfortable listening level. Even going up to 3 can be too loud sometimes with all other volume sliders at max.


----------



## zzzmonster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, detailed impressions. I'm glad you share my opinion of the LME49720s. I actually tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot and found it added slightly to the bass but also had a characteristic lower midrange hump that I did not enjoy with my cans. I also tried the OPA2107 in the buffer spot and was surprised to find a dramatic increase in transient response and overall energy. It added some lower treble and some midbass (all in a pleasing way) and it made the HD650's sound FAST and detailed. Between the OPA2107 and the LME49720, I personally prefer the slightly deeper soundstage and softer sound of the LME, but I would not say that they are superior to the OPA's. In fact, I prefer the OPA with some genres and the LME with others. 

 I've noticed that the 49720 have a bit less bass than what I like. So, I'm planning to try to the OPA2137 and maybe the OPA627/637 in the buffer spot._

 

The 3 x LME49720 sounds horrible when you play classical music. The clarinet sounds so sharp and brittle. But when playing pop and rock, it sounds wonderful


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, detailed impressions. I'm glad you share my opinion of the LME49720s. I actually tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot and found it added slightly to the bass but also had a characteristic lower midrange hump that I did not enjoy with my cans. I also tried the OPA2107 in the buffer spot and was surprised to find a dramatic increase in transient response and overall energy. It added some lower treble and some midbass (all in a pleasing way) and it made the HD650's sound FAST and detailed. Between the OPA2107 and the LME49720, I personally prefer the slightly deeper soundstage and softer sound of the LME, but I would not say that they are superior to the OPA's. In fact, I prefer the OPA with some genres and the LME with others. 

 I've noticed that the 49720 have a bit less bass than what I like. So, I'm planning to try to the OPA2137 and maybe the OPA627/637 in the buffer spot._

 

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that since the OPA637 is not unity gain stable it wouldn't be a good choice for the buffer spot, so you might want to stick w/ the 627 instead. I already have a pair of 637's here so I can certainly Browndog 'em and try 'em out for ya. Regardless though, I look forward to hearing your impressions of any you try out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I think I'm going to keep the LME49720's in the I/V spots. I'm having a hard time deciding what to keep in the buffer spot, though. Both the LM4562 and LM6172 share the same deep soundstage and holographic imaging. The LM4562 does have a more open sound and more forward treble than the 6172's though, so low-level details in the music are a touch more prominent. But the high treble has a hint of brittleness which can come through on occasion, and I'm not completely satisfied w/ the bass either since some sounds seem to be missing the lowest bass harmonics so some instruments don't have quite the weight that I'd like. 

 OTOH the 6172's have a beautifully natural bass that is unmatched by all the other opamps I've tried and does something truly magical for brass, strings, woodwinds, and percussion in particular. It also gives me a more intimate presentation since I'm sitting closer to the performers than the 4562's. But I'm not surprised that you didn't like the 6172's yourself if you listened to them through your HD650's since I believe those cans are reported to already have a lower-mid/upper bass hump. And the 6172's can sound a little muffled/closed-in when compared to the LM4562's. Tough choice...

 As a side note, one thing that has surprised me is that the LM4562's sound different to me than the LME49720's, even though they are supposed to be the same chip! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They both have the same, soundstage, tonality, and overal sound signature, but the brittle/sharp treble on the 4562's are not present on the 49720's, and the 49720's have slightly better detail and more focused/holographic imaging. The 49720's seem like a more-refined version on the 4562's. So to that end I've decided to buy another 49720 to see how it sounds in all three spots.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzzmonster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 3 x LME49720 sounds horrible when you play classical music. The clarinet sounds so sharp and brittle. But when playing pop and rock, it sounds wonderful_

 

I'm surprised that you're experiencing sharpness from the 49720's. Are you listening through the headphone-out or RCA-out? And what other components are in your listening chain (headphones, cables, external amp, etc)? Please let us know what kind of setup you have and maybe we can help you figure out what is causing the sharpness.. 

 I personally love classical music through my LM4562 + 2x49720 combo (the closest I can come to 3x49720 atm). Clarinets specifically have a tiny bit too much presence in the upper-mid region and are missing the lowest bass harmonics, but I hear no sharpness/brittleness from them and they otherwise sound quite close to the real thing for me, as do many other orchestral instruments.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Loempiaja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I recently switched from onboard sound to a Xonar Essence STX. I'm using a Sennheiser HD595.
 Unfortunately I can't really say that I'm blown away. If I enable SVN (Smart Volume Something) I really hear a lot of background noise. Does anyone have this same problem? If I disable SVN the noise more or less disappears, but there still seems to be some noise in silent moments in music. Doesn't matter if it's MP3 or lossless.
 Anyone have a clue what the problem could be?_

 

Got a few questions for ya that'll maybe help us narrow down the problem... Do you hear this noise when there is no music playing? Does it get worse when your music is playing in the background and you're using your keyboard/mouse to do other things on the computer? Are you using the card's front panel connectors/headers on the card itself or one of the back ones (RCA or headphone-out)? Did you hear that same noise when using onboard sound? Does it only show up on certain recordings, or is it on everything?

 IIRC, two other people have reported in this thread they have had lots of noise on their STX. I believe they both RMA'd their card and the replacement they each got back was noise-free. So it's possible you got a defective card. So if the above questions don't help narrow it down I would think about sending it back and exchanging it for another one, since all the rest of us have reported no noise whatsoever coming from the card. For me (and others) the background is dead-black silent.


----------



## zzzmonster

Are LME49720 the same as LM4562,cos I am using 3 x LM4562 (My bad) 

 My Setup - Vista 32 Business Ed (Max Vol) -> PlayWASPI Player (No Vol Control) -> Asus Essence (3 LM4562 RCA out) -> EAM Preamp -> AudioEngine A5 + AudioEngine S8 

 Maybe the Audioengine is bass heavy, but I feel that the bass output is just nice in this setup, but the treble is more brittle on some occasions

 PlayWASPI: Minimalist Audio Player 
 EAM Preamp: EAM ----- EA Electronics : Passive Pre-Amp 

 Don't tell me the problem lies with the PlayWASPI player. It is miles ahead of any audio player i have used including XMPlay with WASAPI out, foobar with WASAPI out, KS out, ASIO out,winamp with ASIO,OPENAL out. 

 Still dont know how to use CPlay successfully yet and dont wish to pay for xxxhighend


----------



## Shahrose

*@Alydon:* Let me know what you think of 3xLME49720. I personally enjoyed that combination a LOT with my DT990s, even moreso than with the HD650s. It served to tame the treble a bit, bring out the mids and remove the midbass hump on the DT990s (giving it a very linear deep bass).

 One thing that I failed to mentioned earlier about the LME49720s is the amount of effortlessness it exudes, especially at higher volumes. Most other opamps can sound congested and smeared when listening to high volumes and the soundstage can collapse as well. This is absolutely not the case with the LME49720s. In fact, it's surprising how well it can convey a sense of space/air and accuracy at high volumes. The only weakness I feel is the bass (but I am being picky) which I feel is sometimes lacking (for my tastes) and it is not as sharp/defined as the default setup, however, the difference here is more in quantity than quality.

 When switching to the DT990s though, an inherently bassy/warm headphone, the LME's sound excellent. I have not found the DT990s to sound better out of anything else.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzzmonster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are LME49720 the same as LM4562,cos I am using 3 x LM4562 (My bad) 

 My Setup - Vista 32 Business Ed (Max Vol) -> PlayWASPI Player (No Vol Control) -> Asus Essence (3 LM4562 RCA out) -> EAM Preamp -> AudioEngine A5 + AudioEngine S8 

 Maybe the Audioengine is bass heavy, but I feel that the bass output is just nice in this setup, but the treble is more brittle on some occasions

 PlayWASPI: Minimalist Audio Player 
 EAM Preamp: EAM ----- EA Electronics : Passive Pre-Amp 

 Don't tell me the problem lies with the PlayWASPI player. It is miles ahead of any audio player i have used including XMPlay with WASAPI out, foobar with WASAPI out, KS out, ASIO out,winamp with ASIO,OPENAL out. 

 Still dont know how to use CPlay successfully yet and dont wish to pay for xxxhighend_

 

The LM4562 & LME49720 are _alleged_ to be the same part. If you compare the datasheets from National's website you'll see that all specs, graphs, etc are identical (I just did this a few mins ago to verify). Someone in this thread on avsforum from a couple years back also said he spoke to a National engineer who said they were identical. However, if you look at their table of "Performance Audio" opamps, you'll see they're the same *except* for the Voltage noise, which is 2.5 on the 49720 and 2.7 on the 4562. 

 So hearsay and documentation say that are _pretty much_ the same. But my ears tell me that the samples that I have sound different enough for me to think there might be some binning-for-quality going on in favour of the 49720's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That said, you're using a speaker system w/ a decent sub, so I'm not surprised you don't have any issues w/ lack of bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suspect that the LM4562's might be responsible for the sharp treble you're hearing though, since I, too, hear a little sharpness from them. Which is why I pulled them in favour of the LME49720's.  

 The only other unknown would be your preamp which I know absolutely nothing about. If it's generally treble-heavy that might make the 4562's sharpness more pronounced.


 @Shahrose, I'll let you know my findings. I agree 100% w/ the sense of effortlessness to the sound produced by the 49720's, as well as their control of imaging, air, space, and instrument separation/distinction even at high volumes and with highly-complex and dynamic performances. Same thing w/ the 6172's, IMO, although they seem to do it more w/ a sense of raw power than that of finesse like you get w/ the 49720's. Both are quite impressive, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For you gamers out there this also applies to FPS gaming. The 49720's and 6172's both provide the most precise imaging and most accurate directional - and especially _distance_ - cues out of any opamps I've tried thus far, even in heavy firefights. The increase in the number of wallhack accusations I've received recently alone speaks volumes about how it has improved my gameplay.


----------



## zzzmonster

@Alydon: I think you are right - they are not the same - I googled Voltage noise, and it seems it alter the characteristic of the opamp quite a bit


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Essence have the ALT loopback functionality? I don't see it among the recording devices..._

 

No it doesn't unfortunately, so you have to have the old Xonar cards if you want that functionality. Since I bought an M-Audio Microtrack II (which I connect to the Essence SPDIF coaxial output) I can do much the same thing the old ALT function did, but with the benefit of not having an additional digital to analogue-analogue to digital stage.


----------



## ADD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Loempiaja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I enable SVN (Smart Volume Something) I really hear a lot of background noise._

 

Well the SVN dramatically compresses the dynamic range (both by limiting and boosting low levels). It's possible you are just hearing the noise floor which would also be present without SVN if it were possible to turn up the volume up high enough without damaging your hearing (I strongly advise against testing that theory though for obvious reasons).

 I don't have the problem you described though. Any increased noise I hear is attributable to the natural noise floor inherent in the source material.


----------



## riderforever

*@ADD*: thanks for the answer!

 I'm getting lost with all this opamp rolling... Can please someone explain me which kind of differences may I expect replacing the I/V JRC2114s with the OPA2134s or LM49720s? Is the latter actually the preferred choice or does it suffer from the lack of bass?


----------



## Dodger1

Am I right in assuming that 1 is the buffer spot and 2 and 3 are the I/V spots?


----------



## riderforever

*@Dodger1*: yes you're right


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Doger1, to elaborate The Buffer opamps is NOT used when using headphone output. The relays remove the LM4562NA out of the circuit and connect the I/V opamps to the headphone amp chip. I just mentioned this as changing the buffer opamp will not change the siganture of the headphone ouput


----------



## Dodger1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Doger1, to elaborate The Buffer opamps is NOT used when using headphone output. The relays remove the LM4562NA out of the circuit and connect the I/V opamps to the headphone amp chip. I just mentioned this as changing the buffer opamp will not change the siganture of the headphone ouput_

 

Thanks for the clarification and your invaluable assistance on the Hardware Canucks audio board. Now if you'll just finally wrap up the review over there, I'll be a happy puppy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of testing Alydon's setup of LME49720's in the I/V spots and an LM6172 in the buffer; to compare against my present setup of LM6172's in the I/V spots and an LT1364 in the buffer. 

 To my still unsophisticated ears the 6172's and 1364 were a nice upgrade from the stock opamps; so I'm intrigued to see what the new one will sound like.

 Currently I'm using my headphones ~ 6 to 1 vs. my speaker setup. My new AD900's were a very nice upgrade from the AD700's, not that I thought they were any slouch, but the 900's kept everything I liked about the 700's and simply made it better (very scientific observation - eh). So if you know of anyone who's looking for a pristine AD700


----------



## Earwicker

Anyone figured out how the variable gain on the headphone amp is achieved? Is it electrically by attenuating the output voltage or have ASUS been sneaky and programmed in three steps of digital attenuation at the DAC?

 HK


----------



## ROBSCIX

The gain levels are set through the headphone amplifier chip.


----------



## Earwicker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The gain levels are set through the headphone amplifier chip._

 

Great! How though? 

 If I set the gain to "normal" and I only need say 3-6 dB of digital attenuation, then that's the ONLY digital attenuation going on? I'm using K701s and still trying to decide between Normal gain with very little attenuation and high gain with 12-15 dB of attenuation - logically the former should sound better...!

 EW


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*@ADD*: thanks for the answer!

 I'm getting lost with all this opamp rolling... Can please someone explain me which kind of differences may I expect replacing the I/V JRC2114s with the OPA2134s or LM49720s? Is the latter actually the preferred choice or does it suffer from the lack of bass?_

 

Taken from my impressions here:


> _2x opa2134 – This added mid-bass in addition to the upper bass from the 2114. It has better bass control and clarity than the 2114 but it’s still flabby and is too boomy. The overall sound is quite organic though and you get increased clarity as well. The treble is slightly peaky but not scratchy, but it can lose control and sound “bleaty” with highly dynamic recordings. Overall it has better imaging, slightly more air, and better/longer decay than the 2114 as well, although there’s still not a lot of air (though is this is more a feature of the Opera amp I’m using). This’d be a good, cheap upgrade ($2 apiece at Digikey) if you can put up with the overemphasized bass._


The LME49720's OTOH give you a much deeper soundstage than stock, as well as a much tighter and more-controlled bass, more details all around, slightly more mids, a clean treble that has more air and is not sharp or scratchy, and vastly improved holographic 3D imaging. The downside is that the low bass rolls off prematurely. However, since the upper-bass is no longer mushy the bass you do get is much more refined than the stock 2114's. 

 It is important to note though that with the 6172 in the buffer spot there is *no* lack of bass in any way, shape, or form! It more than makes up for any bass deficiency the 49720's have in the I/V spots.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dodger1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of testing Alydon's setup of LME49720's in the I/V spots and an LM6172 in the buffer; to compare against my present setup of LM6172's in the I/V spots and an LT1364 in the buffer. 

 To my still unsophisticated ears the 6172's and 1364 were a nice upgrade from the stock opamps; so I'm intrigued to see what the new one will sound like.

 Currently I'm using my headphones ~ 6 to 1 vs. my speaker setup. My new AD900's were a very nice upgrade from the AD700's, not that I thought they were any slouch, but the 900's kept everything I liked about the 700's and simply made it better (very scientific observation - eh). So if you know of anyone who's looking for a pristine AD700 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My memory of the lt1364/2xlm6172 is a little hazy so I'll try it out again for you tonight to see how it compares to my current setup. From what I remember, switching to the 6172/2x49720's will give you a more balanced and forward treble energy, more air, and a larger soundstage.

 ...

*@everyone*, having listened to a wider variety of music last night I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep the 6172 in the buffer spot and not even try a 3rd 49720. While comparing the lm6172 and lm4562, for much of the older music in my collection (classic rock, classical/opera, jazz/blues, 70's funk) the 6172 & 4562 as a buffer are neck-in-neck. With some I prefer the 4562, and others I prefer the 6172.

 However, for newer highly-processed music containing electronica/synth elements (80's pop, electronica, trance, industrial, etc) I efeinitely prefer the 6172. Many times when I switched to the 4562's I was thinking, "Where'd the bass go?" It's like the lowest bass registers just fell off of the music and disappeared, and the bass had very little body to it. Additionally, for some highly processed music (like Men Without Hats's "Pop Goes the World") the imaging became quite flat and sound source got pushed farther away from you, although the soundstage was still big. So it sounded like you were surrounded by a flat dome of music. The 6172 as a buffer does not seem to suffer from this on any but the most poorly mastered music (where pretty much any setup would probably suffer).


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
*@everyone*, having listened to a wider variety of music last night I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep the 6172 in the buffer spot and not even try a 3rd 49720. While comparing the lm6172 and lm4562, for much of the older music in my collection (classic rock, classical/opera, jazz/blues, 70's funk) the 6172 & 4562 as a buffer are neck-in-neck. With some I prefer the 4562, and others I prefer the 6172.

 However, for newer highly-processed music containing electronica/synth elements (80's pop, electronica, trance, industrial, etc) I efeinitely prefer the 6172. Many times when I switched to the 4562's I was thinking, "Where'd the bass go?" It's like the lowest bass registers just fell off of the music and disappeared, and the bass had very little body to it. Additionally, for some highly processed music (like Men Without Hats's "Pop Goes the World") the imaging became quite flat and sound source got pushed farther away from you, although the soundstage was still big. So it sounded like you were surrounded by a flat dome of music. The 6172 as a buffer does not seem to suffer from this on any but the most poorly mastered music (where pretty much any setup would probably suffer)._

 

I'm not sure why but when I tried the LM6172 after the LME49720 in the buffer spot, the bass was strained, especially at higher volumes. It felt like the bass was just giving up partway through the note and I don't mean a quick decay. I mean some bass notes just got truncated to the point where I was losing audio data. I'll have to try it again, but from recent memory, the bass didn't sound as good as the default setup. The DT990s masked this flaw more than the HD650 because of their own bassy signature.


----------



## riderforever

Thanks for the exhaustive clarification, I think I'll definitely give a try to the 49720s as I/V converters. BTW, are them a good choice also for listening through the integrated headphone amp?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure why but when I tried the LM6172 after the LME49720 in the buffer spot, the bass was strained, especially at higher volumes. It felt like the bass was just giving up partway through the note and I don't mean a quick decay. I mean some bass notes just got truncated to the point where I was losing audio data. I'll have to try it again, but from recent memory, the bass didn't sound as good as the default setup. The DT990s masked this flaw more than the HD650 because of their own bassy signature._

 

That sounds to me like audio clipping. Have you increased the L/R audio controls in the STX Mixer control panel above their default value (76 I think) at all? If you have you might have set them too high. I noticed that most of the opamps I've tried experience clipping to varying degrees if I move those sliders too far above the default, and they all seemed to clip if it was set to 100. I keep them at 82, which seems to have alleviated the issue. Highly compressed/saturated modern music seems to clip earlier than older recordings, too.

 I really wish I knew what those sliders were doing from a technical standpoint though. And also why they default to 76 instead of 100 like the other sliders.

 @riderforever, I've not listened to the 49720's through the HP-out so I can't comment myself. I believe others (including Shahrose IIRC) have though and they thought it sounded excellent, and better than the stock 2114's.


----------



## Bojamijams

Just wanna say thanks for all the op-amp testing guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With my current watercooling loop its a bit of a pain to get it in and out so I'm deciding whcih is the ultimate one for metal and rs-1's


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds to me like audio clipping. Have you increased the L/R audio controls in the STX Mixer control panel above their default value (76 I think) at all? If you have you might have set them too high. I noticed that most of the opamps I've tried experience clipping to varying degrees if I move those sliders too far above the default, and they all seemed to clip if it was set to 100. I keep them at 82, which seems to have alleviated the issue. Highly compressed/saturated modern music seems to clip earlier than older recordings, too.

 I really wish I knew what those sliders were doing from a technical standpoint though. And also why they default to 76 instead of 100 like the other sliders.

 @riderforever, I've not listened to the 49720's through the HP-out so I can't comment myself. I believe others (including Shahrose IIRC) have though and they thought it sounded excellent, and better than the stock 2114's._

 

Could be clipping, but it's definitely not because of the sliders (I set them below default, at 50%). Every other opamp has been fine...only with the LM6172 do I find the inconsistent bass.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the exhaustive clarification, I think I'll definitely give a try to the 49720s as I/V converters. BTW, are them a good choice also for listening through the integrated headphone amp?_

 

Absolutely. In fact, I was initially impressed by their performance from the headphone-out, which prompted me to try them in the buffer spot as well.

 On a different note; I've been experimenting further with 1xLME49720 and 2xOPA2107 and I like this combination so far. The soundstage is not as large as the 3xLME49720, and instruments are more up front. However, the bass is much more solid and defined, and there seems to be a bit more of it as well. With some recordings, this combination can be harsh because of the lower treble boost, but I also think the OPA2107's are just more revealing than LME49720. I'll also reiterate my point from before: the OPA2107 present a sound that screams high energy (faster, bassier, brighter, more defined) and are better suited for lower volumes while the LME49720 are smoother and more distant and better to listen to at higher volumes.

 At this point, I don't know which one I prefer. The OPA2107's are more fun to listen to but the LME49720 are more soothing/relaxing. I believe they'll lend themselves preferentially to different genres.

 Edit: Putting the JRC2114 back into the I/V section confirms that the OPA2107 are the brightest opamps of the ones I've tried (but in a pleasing, crisp way), the LME49720s/LT1361 are next, then the LM6172 and the darkest are the JRC2114. The JRC's also have the best bass IMO, same quality as the OPA2107, but just more of it. The JRC2114 also have the widest soundstage but not the deepest (in front). The title of the largest overall soundstage goes to the 3xLME49720, by a longshot.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely. In fact, I was initially impressed by their performance from the headphone-out, which prompted me to try them in the buffer spot as well.

 On a different note; I've been experimenting further with 1xLME49720 and 2xOPA2107 and I like this combination so far. The soundstage is not as large as the 3xLME49720, and instruments are more up front. However, the bass is much more solid and defined, and there seems to be a bit more of it as well. With some recordings, this combination can be harsh because of the lower treble boost, but I also think the OPA2107's are just more revealing than LME49720. I'll also reiterate my point from before: the OPA2107 present a sound that screams high energy (faster, bassier, brighter, more defined) and are better suited for lower volumes while the LME49720 are smoother and more distant and better to listen to at higher volumes.

 At this point, I don't know which one I prefer. The OPA2107's are more fun to listen to but the LME49720 are more soothing/relaxing. I believe they'll lend themselves well to different genres._

 

Dang, now you got me itching to try it out too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Being a detail-n-imaging phreak, the more revealing nature of the 2107 has me curious. It's speed and energy sound like it might be a good match for my 6172 too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of imaging.. How is it on the opa2107? Of the opamps I've tried, the 4 from National (LM6172, LME49720, LME49860, LM4562) have been a step above all the others in their ability to create 3D-holographic instruments that hang in the air all around me. I'd hate to have to give that up. And how are they through the HP-out? Judging by your description I suspect they might be too bright since the TPA6120 HP opamp is already rather fast and bright.

 I forget, has anyone tried the opa2111 yet?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have a bunch that I haven't gotten around to trying yet. When I pull them out I will take notes. The 2107's are a known high quality audio amplifier that sounds a bit different then the typical Burr Brown laidback sound. I have a couple new units but I have to wait for some adapters. -I will test them out and let you know how they sound.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang, now you got me itching to try it out too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Being a detail-n-imaging phreak, the more revealing nature of the 2107 has me curious. It's speed and energy sound like it might be a good match for my 6172 too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of imaging.. How is it on the opa2107? Of the opamps I've tried, the 4 from National (LM6172, LME49720, LME49860, LM4562) have been a step above all the others in their ability to create 3D-holographic instruments that hang in the air all around me. I'd hate to have to give that up. And how are they through the HP-out? Judging by your description I suspect they might be too bright since the TPA6120 HP opamp is already rather fast and bright.

 I forget, has anyone tried the opa2111 yet?_

 

Soundstaging is good but it's not their forte. I would say they rank somewhere near the default opamps for soundstage depth but it's not as wide as stock. However, they are quite layered and holographic, maybe the most out of all the opamps I've tried. Some sounds may come from far away and some will be right in your face. It depends on the recording. This is a good thing in my books as it feels more transparent. Having said that though, the soundstage still never approaches the size of the LME49720s, which always seem to throwing sounds at you from far away (again, in a good way).

 After testing and re-testing all the opamps I have. I've come to the conclusion that (*according to my preferences*) the LME49720 and 2xJRC2114 sound the best. They don't have the soundstage/air of the 3xLME49720, but it is a bit wider and atleast gets close sometimes. They have the best bass of the opamps I've tried, and a nice smooth treble (but one that seems rolled off...). They also have a very prominent midrange, like the 3xLME49720 except warmer, and they get close to the speed of the OPA2107 without sounding harsh. They don't, however, have the detail of the 3xLME49720 and the 2xOPA2107, but again, the difference isn't staggering.

 Also, keep in mind that all of this is with my HD650s. With the DT990s, 3xLME49720 sounded the best, the OPA2107 sounded too harsh and the JRC2114 sounded too bassy.
 Now I'm just waiting for the LME49860 to arrive so I can test them in the buffer spot.


----------



## zzzmonster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soundstaging is good but it's not their forte. I would say they rank somewhere near the default opamps for soundstage depth but it's not as wide as stock. However, they are quite layered and holographic, maybe the most out of all the opamps I've tried. Some sounds may come from far away and some will be right in your face. It depends on the recording. This is a good thing in my books as it feels more transparent. Having said that though, the soundstage still never approaches the size of the LME49720s, which always seem to throwing sounds at you from far away (again, in a good way).

 After testing and re-testing all the opamps I have. I've come to the conclusion that (*according to my preferences*) the LME49720 and 2xJRC2114 sound the best. They don't have the soundstage/air of the 3xLME49720, but it is a bit wider and atleast gets close sometimes. They have the best bass of the opamps I've tried, and a nice smooth treble (but one that seems rolled off...). They also have a very prominent midrange, like the 3xLME49720 except warmer, and they get close to the speed of the OPA2107 without sounding harsh. They don't, however, have the detail of the 3xLME49720 and the 2xOPA2107, but again, the difference isn't staggering.

 Also, keep in mind that all of this is with my HD650s. With the DT990s, 3xLME49720 sounded the best, the OPA2107 sounded too harsh and the JRC2114 sounded too bassy.
 Now I'm just waiting for the LME49860 to arrive so I can test them in the buffer spot._

 

Up till now,what combination of opamp gives you smooth treble, detail sound and tight bass,dont need a lot of bass ? Thanks


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soundstaging is good but it's not their forte. I would say they rank somewhere near the default opamps for soundstage depth but it's not as wide as stock. However, they are quite layered and holographic, maybe the most out of all the opamps I've tried. Some sounds may come from far away and some will be right in your face. It depends on the recording. This is a good thing in my books as it feels more transparent. Having said that though, the soundstage still never approaches the size of the LME49720s, which always seem to throwing sounds at you from far away (again, in a good way).

 After testing and re-testing all the opamps I have. I've come to the conclusion that (*according to my preferences*) the LME49720 and 2xJRC2114 sound the best. They don't have the soundstage/air of the 3xLME49720, but it is a bit wider and atleast gets close sometimes. They have the best bass of the opamps I've tried, and a nice smooth treble (but one that seems rolled off...). They also have a very prominent midrange, like the 3xLME49720 except warmer, and they get close to the speed of the OPA2107 without sounding harsh. They don't, however, have the detail of the 3xLME49720 and the 2xOPA2107, but again, the difference isn't staggering.

 Also, keep in mind that all of this is with my HD650s. With the DT990s, 3xLME49720 sounded the best, the OPA2107 sounded too harsh and the JRC2114 sounded too bassy.
 Now I'm just waiting for the LME49860 to arrive so I can test them in the buffer spot._

 

I made a frownie face when I read your comments about the harshness of the 2107 when heard through your DT990's... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your opinions of the LME49720's and JRC2114's listening thru DT990's seem to match mine (esp the part about the 49720's soundstage, with sounds always coming form farther away and never from up close, which I don't like and which the 6172 buffer fixes btw) so I'm thinking the 2107's may not be for me. 

 I'm still curious to hear them, and maybe the 6172 as a buffer would tame the highs... But I don't think I'm curious enough to shell out $30 to have a pair shipped here. For that price I think I'd rather spend a little more and look into getting an OPA-Earth or OPA-Moon to try in the buffer (and also in my Corda Opera) instead...


*@riderforever*, Last night I briefly tried the HP-out w/ the LME49720's in the I/V's, and WOW does it sound good! Definitely an improvement over stock. I'm not 100% sure but I think they might be my favorite I/V opamp for listening straight through the STX's HP-out - although 2x6172 is quite good too. If memory servers the two sound very close. 
 HP-out.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*@riderforever*, Last night I briefly tried the HP-out w/ the LME49720's in the I/V's, and WOW does it sound good! Definitely an improvement over stock. I'm not 100% sure but I think they might be my favorite I/V opamp for listening straight through the STX's HP-out - although 2x6172 is quite good too. If memory servers the two sound very close. 
 HP-out._

 

Yep. I mentioned earlier that the LME49720 were the best opamps I've heard for the headphone-out section and my opinion still stands.

 BTW, Alydon. I was swayed towards eBay after seeing the steep price for the OPA2107 on Digikey. I got them for half price on eBay.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzzmonster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Up till now,what combination of opamp gives you smooth treble, detail sound and tight bass,dont need a lot of bass ? Thanks_

 

I'd say your best are 1xLME49720 and 2xJRC2114 (stock). If you want more air and detail at the cost of less defined bass and less bass in general, then go for 3xLME49720.


----------



## riderforever

Thank you guys for sharing your findings. Two opa2134 (just curious) and two lme49720 are on the way. 

 I've briefly tested a Burson discrete opamp (opa-101) in the buffer stage, instead of the lm4562. At first it sounded amazing, I couldn't believe how many details it could reveal: it's like entering a new dimension. Overall the sound is much more relaxed, refined and under control and with increased texture (very noticeable with the bass).

 Track after track, however, I feel like something of the impact and energy of the original configuration is missing, as well as bass extension. It's much more articulate and refined, but its weight slightly decreased and the sound seems a bit lean to middle/high frequencies.

 I need more time to confirm these impressions and I like to find an opamp for the I/V with additional weight for the bass, to counterbalance the effect of the Burson. The opa2134 might be the one.


----------



## zzzmonster

Did anyone try 2 x opa2134 w opa2107?


----------



## loony

Yust recently bought this card and it has an awesome sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only i have a question atm i don't have any speakers hooked up and i am thinking about buying the Logitech X-230 2.1 set(yust some cheapo speakers are fine mostly use my headphone). How should i hook up those speakers on my soundcard do i need to use the digital out? Or do i need to use that RCA Y cable to combine and hook the set up to that cable? Any help ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The card come with a RCA to 3.5mm that you can use for those speakers. Although I would suggest you save a bit of money and get a better speakers then the logitechs.


----------



## loony

k cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like i sad i mostly use my headphone for everything. the speakers are yust when friends are passing by etc. so notting fancy is needed the money is no problem could easily spend more on it but not intrested in passing by the 100 euro cause I wouldnt get the worth of money out of it.

 Ty!


----------



## Shahrose

Just tried the LME49860 in the buffer spot. Compared to the LME49720, they are brighter, less bassy and have less mids. The soundstage is not as wide as it is with the LME49720, but the front-depth increased a bit. 

 I also agree with Alydon about the LME49860 having a more refined treble than the LME49720. The difference is subtle, but the LME49720 have a grainier treble. Personally, I still prefer the LME49720, since I like a mid-centric presentation and their wider soundstage is more enveloping.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Have you tested them in the I/V position? -I have them but I am so busy and haven't had any time for testing of opamps.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tested them in the I/V position? -I have them but I am so busy and haven't had any time for testing of opamps._

 

No I haven't, but I have an idea of what they will sound like, since I've tested the LME49720 in the I/V section thoroughly.
 I think I've found my preferred setup in the 1x49720 / 2xJRC2114 so I don't feel like switching to anything else, but I may out of curiosity when I get more time.


----------



## Bojamijams

Is there a higher spec version of the JRC2114 (thats the default I/V opamps right?)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the stock I/V opamps are the 2114D's. I don't think there is a improved version with the same component number. There are many opamps which offer improved specificaations as the 2114D's are a older generic audio opamp that has been used in many audio designs. The base reference designs call for the 5532, abother well known generic audio opamp, but ASUS opted for the 2114D which offers somwhat improved specifications over the 5532. -IIRC.


----------



## maarek99

Hi, what's the difference between the buffer and i/v opamps? I have a opa627 and I may try it in the buffer position, anyone else tried it?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You require two matched opamps for the I/V section and one for the Buffer. Some opamps are better for I/V then buffers. I am pretty sure another tried it for the buffer and said they didn't like it but that is with teh stock I/V opamps. This really gets to be a bit of a balancing act between the 3 opamps. If you have the 627 try it out and let us know how it goes.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Oh noes. My Essence STX is starting to slightly get crackling sounds... :S
 Will see if it's a software setting first as that can be a symptom but still....


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried the LME49860 in the buffer spot. Compared to the LME49720, they are brighter, less bassy and have less mids. The soundstage is not as wide as it is with the LME49720, but the front-depth increased a bit. 

 I also agree with Alydon about the LME49860 having a more refined treble than the LME49720. The difference is subtle, but the LME49720 have a grainier treble. Personally, I still prefer the LME49720, since I like a mid-centric presentation and their wider soundstage is more enveloping._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tested them in the I/V position? -I have them but I am so busy and haven't had any time for testing of opamps._

 

I gave the 2xLME49860's a shot in the I/V spots with both the LME49720 and LM6172 as buffers, and I gotta say in each case I wasn't that impressed. The soundstage is big, the imaging clear like all the National opamps I've tried, and the low/mid bass and mid/upper treble were both clear and distinct. But the entire middle third of the audio spectrum sounded like it had been all scooped out. From about 300Hz - 2KHz was quite recessed, making everything sound quite distant, weak, and hollow. Maybe if it had more juice it'd be a better option, but as it stands I didn't like it.


*@Bojamijams*, I poked around JRC's website and found a couple more opamps that might be interesting to try like their 2120 and 2121, but nothing that looked like it was an improved successor to the 2114D. The specs were all too different to look like they were close to the 2114's. 

*@maarek99*, all 3 opamp sockets on the STX require dual-channel opamps. The opa627 is only a single channel opamp, so in order to use them you'd need two of them installed on the something like a browndog adapter for them to work. _EDIT: From the sound of this post by fzman, a Browndog may not be an option as the white box capacitors surrounding the buffer socket may prevent some types of adapters from plugging into the socket all the way. FYI._ 

*@riderforever*, was the Burson discrete opamp (opa-101) that you try a brand new one or had it already been used somewhere else for a while? I ask because at least one person anyway said over here that it can take 250+ hours for those discreet opamps to fully burn-in, and that the sound significantly improves during that time. Had your opa-101 been burned in at all?


----------



## ROBSCIX

@riderforever, I have actually been interested in such units for a while and some swear there is a burn in factor and others say no such thing as there is really nothing on the unit to burn in. I guess you can make up your own mind if you have the unit there.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@maarek99, I forgot the 627 is single channel so yes, you will need a single to dual channel adapter. If the caps are too close to the socket to allow for the 627 in a adapter to be used, you can use a dip 8 socket to extend the socket upwards clearing the caps.


----------



## natech

Hello to all
 First time poster here o/

 I just bought HD650 and essence stx sound card. I think there is something wrong with my ears because I cannot hear any difference between STX and my realtek integrated soundcard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or should I still buy decent amp with essence to get improvement? Playing flacs with winamp and kernel plugin.
 Should I use highest gain possible with HD650 cans? Reason why I had to ask is that they are 300 ohm and that falls to both, high and medium gain area. And how loudly do you guys listen to headphones? I have personally set volume to 1 from xonar audio center. If I use highest gain, it gets pretty loud.


----------



## Funky-kun

Hi natech, welcome to Head-Fi!

 [insert "Sorry for your wallet." here]

 I doubt there is something wrong with your ears. If you are just beginning to use hi-end audio equipment, the differences in sound might not be so obvious to you as most of the users here describe them. 

 As far as I know a rather powerful amp is needed to drive the 650s to their full potential, but the Xonar does them justice to my ears. Without amplification the 650s sound lifeless and without weight, just tested amped vs unamped last night. If you A-B test it, pay attention to the body of the bass frequencies, it is the easiest thing to spot for me.

 About the gain setting, I use the medium gain (it actually is High gain, but there is one more above it), and find it absolutely enough. Normal listening leves for me are 10-15%, with up to 25% when I want to feel the sonic punch. The highest gain setting makes volume control too sensitive, and the lowest one is perfectly OK too. It depends on your normal listening leves. Other than volume level, there should be no differences.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *natech* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello to all
 First time poster here o/

 I just bought HD650 and essence stx sound card. I think there is something wrong with my ears because I cannot hear any difference between STX and my realtek integrated soundcard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or should I still buy decent amp with essence to get improvement? Playing flacs with winamp and kernel plugin.
 Should I use highest gain possible with HD650 cans? Reason why I had to ask is that they are 300 ohm and that falls to both, high and medium gain area. And how loudly do you guys listen to headphones? I have personally set volume to 1 from xonar audio center. If I use highest gain, it gets pretty loud._

 

Untrained ears. Just spend some more time with it and you'll eventually come to realize and appreciate the differences. Everyone starts out this way, noone save a few have magic ears when they initially get into this hobby.

 Personally, even differences between opamps, let alone separate soundcards are very easily perceivable to me, but it wasn't always like that.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@maarek99, I forgot the 627 is single channel so yes, you will need a single to dual channel adapter. If the caps are too close to the socket to allow for the 627 in a adapter to be used, you can use a dip 8 socket to extend the socket upwards clearing the caps.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Cheater! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good idea tho. Hadn't thought of plugging in another DIP8 to make the socket taller... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@riderforever, I have actually been interested in such units for a while and some swear there is a burn in factor and others say no such thing as there is really nothing on the unit to burn in. I guess you can make up your own mind if you have the unit there._

 

Of course, the same can be said of any piece of audio equipment. There are people on these boards who have said headphones don't need burnin either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd luv to try one of these discreet units out but the reported lack of bass extension has me a little concerned. So I'm hoping burnin *is* a factor and it'll get better for riderforever over time...


----------



## ROBSCIX

I haven't heard a lack of bass when I have listened to some discrete opamps nor have heard mention of it.


----------



## Alydon

Good to know that you haven't heard any. That eases my concern a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, in riderforever's post 2 pages back he does mention a lack of extension:


> _Track after track, however, I feel like something of the impact and energy of the original configuration is missing, as well as bass extension.... I need more time to confirm these impressions and I like to find an opamp for the I/V with additional weight for the bass, to counterbalance the effect of the Burson._


I haven't yet read any opinion that specifically mentions bass extension as being good or bad other than the above post by riderforever. Hence my concern and my hope that it will improve for him during burnin - if such a device actually benefits from burnin, that is...


----------



## Shahrose

So Alydon, I tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot with 2xLME49720 and surprisingly, it sounds quite different from before. The bass no longer cuts out, and there's no unneeded warmth to the sound (still add warmth, but not excessively). I believe it wasn't making contact properly before because now it sounds great. I feel like it's a compromise between the sound of 3xLME49720 and 1xLME49720/2xJRC2114d without most of the drawbacks.

 The 3xLME49720 have a larger/airier soundstage, but not by much and the JRC2114 have more solid and hard-hitting bass (a bit more defined too), but again, not by much.

 The JRC2114 have this upper treble harshness that just seems to grate on you. In fact, I feel there's a lot of things wrong with the treble when I'm using those. They have excellent bass/midrange though, maybe the best of any opamps I've used.

 Anyways, I'm keeping the 1x LM6172/2x LME49720 for now to test it further.

 Upon further testing and comparisons with 3xLME49720. I found the LME49720 have a more realistic tone (because they don't have that lower midrange hump of the LM6172), however, their bass is slightly less defined and a bit less punchy than the LM6172. Also, the LME49720 sound a bit more distant, and smoother. In addition, the LME49720 have a wider soundstage than the LM6172.
 I have yet to find the perfect opamp combination. What's important to take away from all this is, there is no one best magic combination. Everything has pros and cons and you have to find your own sound. I've tried my best to describe the sound differences among all these components. In the end it'll be up to the listener to decide which he/she prefers.

 Edit: If you ever want to see what I prefer, just check my profile, because it keeps changing. After going through all of these opamps twice to verify the differences and make sure they were all seated properly, I've come back to the 3xLME49720s for their sheer soundstage size and depth and smooth tonality.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't heard a lack of bass when I have listened to some discrete opamps nor have heard mention of it._

 

I really think the discrete opamps are designed optimally for higher voltages. I'm not surprised they aren't performing up to snuff with the STX, but perhaps that will change with time.


----------



## Dodger1

I just finished comparing my old setup, LM6172's in the I/V spots and an LT1364 in the buffer, to LME49720's in the I/V spots and an LM6172 in the buffer. 

 I compared the two setups with my AD900's, through the headphone out jack of my STX; with Dolby headphone enabled. I've ended up giving a slight nod to the 49720's but it was a close call; close enough that I ended up switching between the two setups twice.


----------



## zzzmonster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Alydon, I tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot with 2xLME49720 and surprisingly, it sounds quite different from before. The bass no longer cuts out, and there's no unneeded warmth to the sound (still add warmth, but not excessively). I believe it wasn't making contact properly before because now it sounds great. I feel like it's a compromise between the sound of 3xLME49720 and 1xLME49720/2xJRC2114d without most of the drawbacks.

 The 3xLME49720 have a larger/airier soundstage, but not by much and the JRC2114 have more solid and hard-hitting bass (a bit more defined too), but again, not by much. So I feel this is the best setup so far...and we've converged on our choices finally.

 The JRC2114 have this upper treble harshness that just seems to grate on you. In fact, I feel there's a lot of things wrong with the treble when I'm using those. They have excellent bass/midrange though, maybe the best of any opamps I've used.

 Anyways, I'm keeping the 1x LM6172/2x LME49720 for now to test it further._

 

Does this setup sacrifice the midrange,maybe we just need another new opamp in the buffer to tame the jcr2114?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzzmonster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this setup sacrifice the midrange,maybe we just need another new opamp in the buffer to tame the jcr2114?_

 

No, it doesn't sacrifice the midrange. It just makes it a bit less prominent and more distant. With the JRC's the midrange surrounds you because of its wide soundstage and its smooth tonality gives voices a hefty, visceral feeling (and makes voices more upfront in general). However, the treble issues have been present even with the LM4562, LME49720, LT1361, OPA2107, and LM6172 all in the buffer spot with the JRCs, so I think the buffer may not be sufficient to rectify the treble response of the JRCs, but I may be wrong.


----------



## zzzmonster

I have to confess I like the voices upfront, cos in a rock music, in most other setups, the vocals drowns out. That I why I hope to keep the JCR2114 and swap the buffer,maybe with something else not yet tested...

 Link: diyAudio Forums Archive - Opamp Comparisons


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really think the discrete opamps are designed optimally for higher voltages. I'm not surprised they aren't performing up to snuff with the STX, but perhaps that will change with time._

 

Actually the STX swings from +12 to -12 volts which is enough to use discrete opamps. They were performing fine with the STX from what I have heard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the other post about the bass, Like any opamp used for the buffer, if it is not a good match with the I/V amps, you can get very different signatures some will sound good and others not so much.


----------



## fzman

question for those of you using the 49720s-- are you using the metal can parts? they definitely sound better, but are a bit of a hassle to bend into shape. Once done, however, they stay put. i even put a pair of the metal can 49710s on a brown dog, and got it to stay in (I've got an htpc case, though, so they are side-ways, not upside down).

 the pair sounded a teeny bit better than the dual-pkg 49720.

 Just finished a headphone amp using the metal can current feedback 49713s, powered by an amb sigma22 psu which i built. Haven;t hooked it up to the essence computer yet, but it sounds good from the prodigy hd-2 deluxe, using a pair of lt1028s on a brown dog adapter.

 sheesh, this is fun!!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Have you compared the DIP8 to the metal can modules of the 49720?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I think I will be checking out some discrete units and I will let you guys know if your interested.


----------



## Bojamijams

Of course we are


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will be checking out some discrete units and I will let you guys know if your interested._

 

I've been waiting for your impressions for a while now.


----------



## ROBSCIX

If I check out new devices, I have to do it right so you have to be patient.

 I have some on the way and have been testing some others and I have been impressed with what I have heard so far.


----------



## ans294920

-del-


----------



## ROBSCIX

This card has ASIO support.


----------



## slowpoker

Just got the stx and hd 600's. two questions,which gain do i use and about how long is the break in for the cans?


----------



## taso89

I use medium gain on my HD600's. Then I break them in sitting on my desk at about 75% volume (it's quite loud). I'm at around 40 hours and they sound fantastic. I like them better than my Denons now actually.


----------



## slowpoker

Thanks, i appreciate the quick response!


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Alydon, I tried the LM6172 in the buffer spot with 2xLME49720 and surprisingly, it sounds quite different from before. The bass no longer cuts out, and there's no unneeded warmth to the sound (still add warmth, but not excessively). I believe it wasn't making contact properly before because now it sounds great. I feel like it's a compromise between the sound of 3xLME49720 and 1xLME49720/2xJRC2114d without most of the drawbacks.

 The 3xLME49720 have a larger/airier soundstage, but not by much and the JRC2114 have more solid and hard-hitting bass (a bit more defined too), but again, not by much.

 The JRC2114 have this upper treble harshness that just seems to grate on you. In fact, I feel there's a lot of things wrong with the treble when I'm using those. They have excellent bass/midrange though, maybe the best of any opamps I've used.

 Anyways, I'm keeping the 1x LM6172/2x LME49720 for now to test it further.

 Upon further testing and comparisons with 3xLME49720. I found the LME49720 have a more realistic tone (because they don't have that lower midrange hump of the LM6172), however, their bass is slightly less defined and a bit less punchy than the LM6172. Also, the LME49720 sound a bit more distant, and smoother. In addition, the LME49720 have a wider soundstage than the LM6172.
 I have yet to find the perfect opamp combination. What's important to take away from all this is, there is no one best magic combination. Everything has pros and cons and you have to find your own sound. I've tried my best to describe the sound differences among all these components. In the end it'll be up to the listener to decide which he/she prefers.

 Edit: If you ever want to see what I prefer, just check my profile, because it keeps changing. After going through all of these opamps twice to verify the differences and make sure they were all seated properly, I've come back to the 3xLME49720s for their sheer soundstage size and depth and smooth tonality._

 

Good to hear you were able to solve the bass clipping/stuttering issues w/ the 6172 so you could get a chance to hear what it's really capable of, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 even if you didn't ultimately keep it installed. I can understand though why you'd want to stick w/ the 3x49720 setup w/ the HD650's, since I understand those cans already emphasize the mid-bass a bit so the 6172 might be a little too much in that area.

 However, to give everyone an inverse opinion.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...Ultimately with my rig, using a 6172 in the buffer sounds the most realistic to me.. In my setup, the 6172 has the most detailed, full-bodied, and visceral bass of any opamp I've tried (including the JRC2114, which by comparison had a smeared, boomy, and indistinct bass), whereas the 49720, though detailed, is missing the lowest bass registers and simply doesn't have the impact or imaging that the 6172 provides. This is especially noticeable with strings and percussion. There is also a little too much upper-mid/lower treble emphasis (1-2KHz) with a 49720 buffer that makes horns sound slightly “bleaty” and gives high strings and pianos a nasal quality that sounds somewhat off to me (though again I don't think that the HD650's would experience this). 

 Lastly, I personally prefer the more intimate soundstage that gives me the feel of being in amongst the musicians. The 3x49720's setup does have a larger soundstage and I can see where many might prefer it, but it made the musicians a little too far away and the music a little detached as a result to be ideal for me. 

 Overall, both opamps are excellent choices though and I'd still be quite content w/ a 49720 in the buffer if the 6172's didn't exist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I strongly suggest to anyone that wishes to try their hand at opamp rolling on the STX that you try *both* of these opamps in the buffer spot to find out which one you prefer since I don't believe one is superior to the other. I guess this goes to show how important system synergy and personal preference come into play in addition to the personal experience and compromise/balancing that Shahrose already mentioned... 

 ...

 However, since I don't seem to be able to leave well-enough alone, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been rolling opamps in my Corda Opera and I think I've found another one that I'd like to try in the STX as well: the LM7171. This is a single-channel opamp which means you’ll need to use two of them on an adapter. However, they seem quite promising given the results I’ve heard from the Opera.

 So far in the Opera it sounds very similar to the stock 6171's that it comes with, but with the contrast turned up. It has a blacker background, and slightly better dynamics, deeper and cleaner bass, a deeper soundstage, and better imaging. The mid-bass hump is reduced as well. Once my adapters arrive in the mail I’ll test them out in both the buffer and I/V spots of the STX to see how they fare.


----------



## rodomenr

New review:
ASUS XONAR Essence STX PCIe Audio Card - HotHardware


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodomenr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New review:
ASUS XONAR Essence STX PCIe Audio Card - HotHardware_

 

Interesting review. Not too much we didn't already know of course, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the Centrance ASIO Latency Test results are a good read. It's also worthy to note that the reviewer tested the card using AKG 702's (which have been reported on these forums to be notoriously hard to drive) for part of his listening tests and seemed to really like the result. That's good to hear since I don't think anyone's commented yet on how the STX drives any AKG cans.


----------



## Shahrose

@Alydon. Did I mention that I preferred the LM6172 + 2xLME49720 for the DT990s? They were better than the 3xLME49720...but I found the opposite for the HD650s.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Here's another new review frim PC Format UK. 
 It's rather short and funny....

Xonar Essence STX | PC Format


----------



## Funky-kun

I got my hands on a pair of LT1364s today. After about 8 hours of burn in/listening with Senn HD650 through the headphone out, here are my impressions:

 Without any burn-in the sound was very quiet. I had to turn it up to 75% on medium gain to get to normal listening levels. After an hour or two while the headphones were left singing in a drawer, the sound level was equal to that of 2114s. The 1364 removes the midbass hump of the 2114s, which made the sound too heavy and boomy on 650, and its bass sounds more natural now. Detail-wise I'd say they are about the same, but 1364 improves the soundstage a bit. The other notable difference is that 1364s brings out the highs a lot more than the default opams, in a good way. I felt they were recessed before. Now the overall sound of the phones is more natural. Keeping them in place of 2114s.

 A pair of 49720s are on the way, I will post a comparison when they arrive.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You may find that some opamps provide subtle differences and others may provide drastic differences. That is the way of testing opamps.
 I have some 4972's also will be checking those out soon also.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Hi guys!!!

 I am new but did visit and read on the site a long time ago. I was so interested in the essence stx that i bought it a month ago. The soundcard is really interesting and I think has a lot more potencial. I just want to annonce a little project from me. I ordered 3x dual discrete opamps from burson audio. They should arrive soon. ) 
 This combination I think should bring more natural aspects. Will see! ) If any of you guys has some good ideas just tell. I am open to anyone! ))


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been working with the discrete Opamps but not the Burson models.

 Let us know what you find when you test them out.
 You can also try different setups such as using opamp chips for the I/V and the Burson units for the buffer or vice/versa.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Really! 
 What did you find out in relation to the ICs?


----------



## ROBSCIX

They sound very good but I haven't had that much time yet to give them the attention they deserve and as I said I am not using the burson units.
 I am writing down all my observations and findings and will post them when done.


----------



## wein07

Anyone know if this card will be an improvement over my Onkyo SE-90 PCI? Thanks


----------



## Shahrose

An update on opamps once again. I've switched over to 1xOPA2107 and 2xLME49720. I found that this setup has better treble extension and a more prominent cleaner/less grainy treble than 3xLME49720. The OPA2107 also gives slightly better bass definition and a tiny bit more bass. However, the soundstage is smaller than the 3xLME49720. No combination has the soundstage of the 3xLME, but I feel the huge soundstage and smooth/warm/bass-shy characteristics of that setup suit classical and relaxing recordings more than high energy genres like electronic/rock music.
 One other thing I feel is that the transient response seems a bit faster with the OPA2107 and instruments are more up-front, as I said earlier.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am pretty sure right off the top of my head the 2107's are a very fast amplifier when compared to other that people have been testing for audio. I will have to try out this setup.


----------



## 12Bass

No experience with the STX, but my overall impression of the OPA2107 is that it sounds sort of "mushy", and not too transparent. There are a number of better op amps out there today.... much prefer AD825.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No experience with the STX, but my overall impression of the OPA2107 is that it sounds sort of "mushy", and not too transparent. There are a number of better op amps out there today.... much prefer AD825._

 

I've found that opamp characteristics aren't constant across different applications and hardware. In the STX, the OPA2107 definitely does not sound "mushy."


----------



## 12Bass

True, application can make a difference. That's just my experience with the chip in a couple of different circuits. Still, I don't recall hearing huge changes in sonic signature when listening to the same op amp in different applications.

 Where I tried it, the OPA2107 reminded my somewhat of the OP275, in that it seemed to compress or lose low-level details, making it sound somewhat dynamically squashed. It also sounded a bit lacking in detail and resolution. YMMV....


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, application can make a difference. That's just my experience with the chip in a couple of different circuits. Still, I don't recall hearing huge changes in sonic signature when listening to the same op amp in different applications.

 Where I tried it, the OPA2107 reminded my somewhat of the OP275, in that it seemed to compress or lose low-level details, making it sound somewhat dynamically squashed. It also sounded a bit lacking in detail and resolution. YMMV...._

 

Interesting. That indicates there's room for improvement in the STX. I'll look into some of those opamps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

What a opamp sounds like, Depends a great deal on what it is surrounded by, The natural sound quality of the DAC and other components contribute to the overall sound quality. -Atleast they influence it somewhat. I have tested out the 2107 in many different design and I would never call it "mushy"


----------



## chinesekiwi

As I CBF'ed searching though 79 pages....
 What is the real difference between the LME49720 and the LM4562 apart from the renaming?
 I might consider buying 3 LME49720's (1 spare/for experiment).


----------



## Bojamijams

For anyone curious.. the RS-1 and the STX in its stock configuration using the HP out is a GREAT match.. with flats.. with bowls its too bright


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I CBF'ed searching though 79 pages....
 What is the real difference between the LME49720 and the LM4562 apart from the renaming?
 I might consider buying 3 LME49720's (1 spare/for experiment)._

 

I didn't especially compare the 2, but, when I switched to the LME49720 from the LM4562, I felt the treble became smoother and mids became more prominent. There may have been a soundstage improvement as well but I can't recall from memory.

 I might re-check to make sure what I remember is accurate. Until then, take these impressions with a grain of salt.


----------



## 12Bass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a opamp sounds like, Depends a great deal on what it is surrounded by, The natural sound quality of the DAC and other components contribute to the overall sound quality. -Atleast they influence it somewhat. I have tested out the 2107 in many different design and I would never call it "mushy"_

 

IMO, words are hardly adequate to accurately convey the differences in sound between op amps, so perhaps you might forgive me for using the term "mushy". What I can say is that I've tried the OPA2107 in a few circuits, hoping to be impressed, and ended up replacing it with something which I thought sounded better. And by better, for me that would probably mean something which sounded clearer, more articulate, lower distortion, etc.... Given that the OP2107 is a rather expensive part, my money will be going elsewhere in the future.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I understand, words just can't convey what you hear accurately.
 To me the OPA2107 has always sounded very clear, detailed an analytical in all the tests I have used.
 They are rather expensive when compared to say a 2134 or OPA2227, but there are much more expensive units then the 2107. -which is about $12-IIRC?

 Can I ask what you have tried that opamp in and what units you have tried that you like better?
 I am using it right now in a a circuit as a I/V and final buffer for a mono channel. The sound in very clear and detailed.
 I guess as they say, audio is subjective.


----------



## 12Bass

For FET, I've found that I prefer dual AD825s.... they seem pretty open and clean sounding. Just tried a dual OPA827 and still find myself preferring the AD825 - the OPA827s do sound better to me than the OPA2132/34/2107, but still seem to lack a bit of the liveliness of the AD825.

 Applications have been an Eden bass amp (highly modified preamp section) and a modified CMOY design. At the moment the CMOY has an AD8397, which seems to strike a good compromise between sound quality and output capability. My Echo Gina24/96 soundcard has LM4562s in the output section (replaced NJM2068), with output capacitors removed.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@12Bass, I just got some OPA827 in, I still have to solder them into the adapters though.
 I don't have very many AD units, although I would like to get more.


 For those wondering about the discrete units, My initial tests have been quite positive.
 I will have more info...


----------



## Alydon

Hey ROBSCIX, which modules are you testing, specifically?

 I'm going to be buying one most likely but haven't yet decided on the OPA-Moon or -Earth.


----------



## ROBSCIX

All of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have been doing basic test so far but haven't got into heavy testing yet.

 Drop me a PM.


----------



## wein07

Hi everyone. I'm apologising if i am hijacking this thread and going off-topic, but it seems this is where all the know-mores are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've both the Asus essence stx and Auzentec forte 7.1 with me now. Previously using the Onkyo SE-90 PCI, I got the essence 1st and very impressed with playing foobar2000 and could hear sounds i couldnt before. Its very smooth sounding. Of course i headed here to learn about the OP-Amps upgrades. But then came gaming. I'm currently playing Left 4 dead and Team fortress 2. The essence stx gives me misleading directional sounds, can lag in big mobs and has me frustrated! FYI i've got a decent setup for gaming, nvidia GTX 285, C2D 3.2Ghz, killer NIC.

 Ok, so i read around and got the Auzen forte 7.1 with its updated Xi-fi chipset. Gaming wise, hell sweet. Framerates were consistent in huge fights, and of coz i got proper directional sounds. However forte's sound doesnt have the dynamic sound or Ooomph! in music or single player games, not that im expecting it to comparable to the essence. Also a tad disappointed the CMSS doesnt compare to the Dolby headphones in the Essence STX.

 My question is are the Op-Amps mentioned LT1361 , LT1364, LM6172 , LME49720, AD8599 useable in the Auzen forte 7.1? The box says they're swappable dual DIP type OPAMP. I'm hoping a switch in the OPAMP can help the slightly muddy bass and give the forte output a more dynamic sound( not neccsarily bassier ^_^ ).


----------



## genclaymore

Offtopic- wein07 you have DSGX on because I have no problems like yours while playing L4D.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wein07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ FYI i've got a decent setup for gaming, nvidia GTX 285, C2D 3.2Ghz, *killer NIC.*_

 

The bolded is as much of a waste of money as $25,000 audio cables.
 But hey, waste a couple of hundred dollars on an extra 2 FPS......


----------



## genclaymore

to assume that he bought it for a fps boost is just that, as it could also be used as sending data to other comps on the lan without bogging down his server/game hosting/lan Gaming. Like some one getting maps, patches from the lan server while a game is going. Thru the device while the server is running without bogging it down and what not.

 I agree it cost more then what it should. But you dont see me going after some one because they choose to buy something that you wouldnt buy.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to assume that he bought it for a fps boost is just that, as it could also be used as sending data to other comps on the lan without bogging down his server/game hosting/lan Gaming. I agree it cost more then what it should. But you dont see me going after some one because they choose to buy something that you wouldnt buy._

 

Kileler NIC's are marketed for gaming tbh.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Also, price and money are relative to the individual depending on their wants and needs.
 I buy many items that other people would scoff at but I don't think twice about.
 I think Head-fi is full of many people buying items many others would consider crazy or insanely high priced.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kileler NIC's are marketed for gaming tbh._

 

I know what it marketed towards. But it has other uses too outside of gaming. But I wouldnt get one my self as I have no need for it as I have Gigalan(two ethernet plugs on mobo) other then it being more then what I would pay.

 Same robscix


----------



## ROBSCIX

Back to the STX, I have been getting some very positive result using these Discrete opamps.

 Since the output section are relatively similar between the HDAV and STX, how do you find the 2134/627 combo claymore?


----------



## genclaymore

To me better then the 2134/LMA4562 combo, I dont know how to explain it but it sounds more open.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The 2134 are a pricier and better spec'd audio opamps then the stock 2114D's and most would take a OPA627 over a LM4562 anyday.

 I bet that setup would sound very open. That is really what I am hearing with the discrete units they just open everything up and make many chips amps sound very compressed and closed in.


----------



## mreendoor

Hello this my first post 


 I want to ask What is the best Headphone for the card Of this price between

 300-500 $ I have no experience In this area Because im noob I want to become

 Audiophile like you 

 Is there a big difference between the hd650-hd600 Justifying the price 

 difference 

 I live outside us we have moisture and heat so Closed cans is out


----------



## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mreendoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello this my first post 


 I want to ask What is the best Headphone for the card Of this price between

 300-500 $ I have no experience In this area Because im noob I want to become

 Audiophile like you 

 Is there a big difference between the hd650-hd600 Justifying the price 

 difference 

 I live outside us we have moisture and heat so Closed cans is out_

 

Welcome, have a good money burn!!


----------



## wein07

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bolded is as much of a waste of money as $25,000 audio cables.
 But hey, waste a couple of hundred dollars on an extra 2 FPS......_

 

Killer NICs do work(I 1st tested it in 2008 with new drivers) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I brought it off eBay specifically to test it against onboard NIC and a Intel NIC. The killer NIC and intel NIC helps in intensive situations online with massive action on screens. I can conciously notice smoother mouse movement in intense action on screen. It's hard to determine this in a chart displaying fps! It like saying 9800GX2 is better than GTX 285 w/o looking at minimum fps! Spenting a bit more to justify having an edge in fragging others is worthwhile to ppl like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regarding the OPA moon, Earth. Would the essence STX be able to supply enough power for these HDAMs?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the Essence STX/ST swings for +12 to -12 more then enough power for the HDAM's.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wein07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Killer NICs do work(I 1st tested it in 2008 with new drivers) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I brought it off eBay specifically to test it against onboard NIC and a Intel NIC. The killer NIC and intel NIC helps in intensive situations online with massive action on screens. I can conciously notice smoother mouse movement in intense action on screen. It's hard to determine this in a chart displaying fps! It like saying 9800GX2 is better than GTX 285 w/o looking at minimum fps! Spenting a bit more to justify having an edge in fragging others is worthwhile to ppl like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regarding the OPA moon, Earth. Would the essence STX be able to supply enough power for these HDAMs?_

 

I agree and believe you, but please keep the discussion on topic. This applies to everyone else digressing from the thread topic.


----------



## riderforever

Hi guys, sorry for having been away from this thread for a little while, but now I'm back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the meanwhile two important things have simple revolutioned the playback of my audio system:
the LM49720NAs have arrived
I've applied the digital correction using DRC
First of all, let me speak about the latter: I strongly advice all of you who do listen through speakers to try it, you won't listen without it anymore for sure. It simply removes any bump or enphasis due to amp-speaker-environment combination and its effect is smashing expecially on the bass frequencies. The gain in terms of impact, articulation and extension is unbelievable.
 With the digital correction in place I was finally able to rightly evaluate the opamps.

 To me the LM49720NA as I/V are really great opamps and a noticeable step forward with respect to the JRC. I was suprised not to feel any particular loss of bass, instead it becomes tighter. In general the sound is much more defined without any harshness and very enjoyable to listen. 
 Then I put back the Burson opa-101 in the buffer place and I started again to hear marvellous things: lots and lots of details are unveiled in - practically - every track, the sound is absolutely natural and flows out of the speakers with a fluency and liquidity which is unknown to my ears. And - most important - with the digital filtering ON the bass is absolutely in pair with mids and highs, furthermore it has an impact and articulation just perfect (at high volumes I can feel it through my body), without any issue regarding extension.

 I don't know if the Burson is worth its price and there is a considerable difference with respect to be Audio-Gd ones, but - trust me - you should try a discrete opamp, they have some kind of magic.


----------



## ROBSCIX

THe Discrete units I have been testing are offering some great audio so far. I have more units in route. I will be performing a bunch of different test to find out which combination is my favorite. They seem to sound very natural as compared to many of the opamps I have tried.


----------



## Funky-kun

The 49720s are here. I let them burn in for two-three hours and gave them a critical listen. 

 Tonality overall is very balanced, leaning a little on the bright side. Highs are very energetic and forward, more prominent than on the stock and 1364. The midrange is fairly neutral, and the bass is _very_ good. This was a surprise for me - I expected weaker bass. In fact it is more in quality and quantity than 1364, tight and natural. It is less than the 2114s, but they have excessive bass anyway. It is just maybe lacking the lowest octave, but the extension is better than 1364. But the best thing about the 49720s is the soundstage. Gosh, this thing is *huge*. You can throw a whole building in there. I have never heard anything like it. Detail-wise the opamps are also an improvement over stock. 

 Their somewhat brighter presentation combined with the laidback character of the HD650s makes for a great overall sound quality and tonality. Keeping them and expecting more opamps to come for further testing.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 49720s are here. I let them burn in for two-three hours and gave them a critical listen. 

 Tonality overall is very balanced, leaning a little on the bright side. Highs are very energetic and forward, more prominent than on the stock and 1364. The midrange is fairly neutral, and the bass is very good. This was a surprise for me - I expected weaker bass. In fact it is more in quality and quantity than 1364, tight and natural. It is less than the 2114s, but they have excessive bass anyway. It is just maybe lacking the lowest octave, but the extension is better than 1364. But the best thing about the 49720s is the soundstage. Gosh, this thing is *huge*. You can throw a whole building in there. I have never heard anything like it. Detail-wise the opamps are also an improvement over stock. 

 Their somewhat brighter presentation combined with the laidback character of the HD650s makes for a great overall sound quality and tonality. Keeping them and expecting more opamps to come for further testing._

 

Soundstaging with the LME49720's is excellent. With the OPA2107 in the buffer and 2xLME49720 in the I/V I've found that the slow-ish and laid back nature of the 3xLME49720 is countered and there's an accompanied increase in detail/transient response. I also forgot to mention that the OPA2107 improve the imaging and soundstage layering but decrease the soundstage size a bit, however, I feel this is a worth-while compromise for the benefits yielded.


----------



## Funky-kun

Well, I can only use one pair of opamps, since I use the HP out, and try to find the most appropriate pair of opamps for all kinds of music.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mreendoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello this my first post 


 I want to ask What is the best Headphone for the card Of this price between

 300-500 $ I have no experience In this area Because im noob I want to become

 Audiophile like you 

 Is there a big difference between the hd650-hd600 Justifying the price 

 difference 

 I live outside us we have moisture and heat so Closed cans is out_

 

You don't choose your headphone to get the best out of your source, you choose your source to tweak the sound of your headphone. Your headphone is what that determines your sound signature. Please visit the full sized headphone forum and tell them what you are looking for.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Hi Guys!

 Today I finaly received my 3 dual ampops from bursons. They are looking cute (hand made). 
 I am wondering if they sound so natural as they look like. I will find out.) I will poste some pictures when I am done whit the work.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I hope you got the extension wires as it make testing them so much easier.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Here it is! Beauty!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

One more...


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

First impression: WARM WARM!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am using a similar setup. I have my card on the lowest slot and I have put down a bit of shielding on the floor of the PC case. I just let the Amps sit in the bottom.

 Those extensions are great for experimenting as it allows you to change your opamps without removing your card. We can argue the draw backs of it, but hey, it offers easy testing of any opamps discrete or chip amp.

 I found the discrete units sound very warm "analog" type sound and very,very open. I know I am not using the Burson units but the Audio-GD units sound quite good so far. I am not saying warm that takes away from clarity.


----------



## ROBSCIX

To note, if your using the built in headphone amp the last single opamp slot is NOT used.


----------



## Aquanote

hi, I am a proud owner of the Xonar Essence and have a few questions that heavent already been answered althoug I´m already 30 pages into this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Noob all the way.

 I read a lot about foobar and ASIO and windows mixer and direct kernel streaming and whatnot - makes me a little confused :/

 right now I´m using winamp and ozonemp which I find a big improvement over standart media player. Windows still controls volume.

 which is the best possible playback solution for the essence? how do I activate asio, does it have to be foobar? is ozonemp redundant then? and so on. You guys probably know better than me whats really important.

 also whats the deal with the different khz options - should i leave it at 192khz or what?
 do I have a choice between 16 and 24 bit - is there an option in the asus prgramm to change that? does it make sense?

 whats the best way to burn in that baby? 50% Volume at 100 hours? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 help please! a little guideline would be wonderful


----------



## Funky-kun

First, ASIO doesn't care if it is foobar or Winamp, it is just the way the sound is being output. ASIO is very important for WinXP because of kmixer, but Vista has supposedly better sound protocols, and ASIO is not absolutely necessary for the best audio quality. 

 I have ASIO through Winamp on Vista 64 set up supposedly correctly and Windows is still able to control the volume. But come to thik of it, it should be that way, because the Xonar software sound regulation is directly linked to the windows one.

 I haven't tried ozonemp, but it seems it is some kind of DSP/effect/enhancer plugin. I prefer to playback my music without any effects, the way it is recorded (especially no Dolby stuff).

 The khz are the sample rate at which sound is being output. If your music is all CD quality you should use 16/44.1, because that is the resolution of your music. I have some 24/96 rips, and therefore use 24/96 for output resolution. Also, I am not sure, but I've seen in the tests that the noise levels for the Xonar are lower when using 24bit resolutions, so they might be preferred then.

 Noticable burn-in for the card for me was about 12 hours, and you can still listen to the card in that time period. I think the parts breaking in are the capacitors and the opamps (confirmed about opamps after some rolling). I used normal listening volume.

 Hope that helped.


----------



## Aquanote

yea that helped, thanks! still a lot of questions unanswered:

 how can you choose between 16 and 24 bit? I haven´t seen that option. Only khz to choose from. My collection of music is in all kinds of formats and qualities, so I presume I leave it at 192khz!?

 also I read that the asus essence supports ASIO 2.0. But how can I be sure its running? Is it built in in the drivers? Do I have to have a ASIO plugin or whatever in winamp?

 Because I read that if asio is installed correctly you cant´t control volumes over windows and neither via the media players. Only directly from the driver.

 and why are so many people fond of foobar. There must be a reason in sound, because lookwise and overall I find winamp very good...


----------



## Funky-kun

Yup, my mistake about the khz. The bits are adjustible in window's Control Panel, not the card's software.

 Even if your music is variable in format and quality, I doubt you have 192khz files (note that 192khz != 192kbps). If you do, may I ask how you aquired them (vinyl rip perhaps)? 

 The card supports ASIO and it is viewable in the Winamp ASIO output plugin I am using at the moment. Here is a link. You should place the file in your Winamp plugins folder, and then select is as output plugin from Winamp's options. If you configure the plugin, you should be able to select the soundcard as device.

 Yeah, I've also read that you should't be able to adjust the volume when using ASIO. I can't adsjust it from Winamp, only from Windows. Come to think about it, if you can't adjust the volume, you would be stuck with 100%, which is a lot more than I use when listening to music. Adjusting the audio level from the Asus driver automatically adjust the Windows slider.

 About Foobar and Winamp, it is just a question of preference. When using ASIO there is no way the music could sound different, so it depends on the looks of the program and other features such as library, gapless playback, replay gain and various plugin support. I also prefer Winamp.

 If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## Aquanote

thanks for the link to the asio.dll and the very precise instructions! it works fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I left all the options on default.

 yea I´m also guessing that it´s working correctly since with winamp you cant adjust the volume which indicates that its on. The Asus programm is somehow linked to the windows mixer which is not a bad thing when I think about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as long as asio is running.

 ... I´m almost ashamed to ask since you already helped me quite a bit but still cant find the place in windows where I can adjust the bits


----------



## Funky-kun

It depends weather you are using Vista or XP. I can't recall exactly for XP at the moment, but in Vista it is located here: Control Panel -> Sound -> select Speakers/Headphones and click Properties -> Advanced Tab. I cannot tell you how it is working with ASIO though.

 I'm glad to be of help.


----------



## awesom-o

I'm looking forward to the discrete reviews! I've had my Essence for a couple of weeks now (bought it because of this thread) and I want to change the op-amps. Stock has a little too much bass, so I'm either going for 49720 or some discrete units. 
 I'm using my card with a tube amp and klipsch speakers, and sometimes my grado sr-80. 
 I went from an audigy 2, and the difference is what I was hoping it would be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, using windows 7 beta, works almost perfectly. Volume and mute in the asus control panel doesn't work, but the windows ones does, so its no matter. Everything else seems to be in order.


----------



## 12Bass

Those interested in empirical tests might enjoy Samuel Groner's comprehensive op amp distortion tests, which are available here:

SG-Acoustics · Samuel Groner · IC OpAmps

 Among those tested are the AD797, OPA-Earth/Moon, LME49860, AD825, OPA627, and many others!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Thx for the link.


----------



## Shahrose

Update once again on opamps. I've found that no matter which opamp is used in the buffer spot, if there are 2xLME49720 in the I/V section, the bass output is compromised. The bass can be tight or loose depending on the buffer, but it lacks punch no matter which buffer amp is used (relative to default opamps and OPA2107).
 So now I'm using the LME49720 in the buffer spot and 2xOPA2107 in the I/V section. The soundstage is about the size of stock (nothing like 2x49720 in the I/V), but the bass is the best I've heard quality-wise, and is in plentiful quantity. The highs are more prominent as well but, unfortunately, they're scratchy/grainy (not smooth) and at times, quite fatiguing. However, the main benefit of this setup is that the overall transient response is noticeably improved over all other opamp combinations and it really produces a detailed, quick, high-energy sound.

 At low volumes, this setup sounds good, but at high volumes, I prefer the LME49720 in the I/V section. I wish I could combine the bass/transient speed of the OPA2107 with the smooth treble and huge soundstage of the LME49720.


----------



## 12Bass

THS4032 might work for I/V, but it may require some very careful power supply bypassing for stability, due to its high speed.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been considering those. 
 Do you have any to test?


----------



## 12Bass

I have one THS4032 SOIC mounted on a DIP socket. Nothing that requires I/V around though....


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have a few 4032 and a few 4031's, I should be ordering up some adapters here soon.
 There are many SOIC that I want to turn to DIP8 for testing in this card.


----------



## Bojamijams

I may have missed it now but is there a setup yet of the I/V's (exclude buffer spot for now for those of us who use HP out) that tames the harshness of the highs and thus also brings the mids forward a bit?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you using the EQ at all?


----------



## ROBSCIX

YOu can try the OPA2227's they have a good bas range and a glossy high range very similar to the 2134's.

 Have you tried the 2134 in the I/V?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have missed it now but is there a setup yet of the I/V's (exclude buffer spot for now for those of us who use HP out) that tames the harshness of the highs and thus also brings the mids forward a bit?_

 

LME49720.


----------



## Bojamijams

Ah but the LME49720 compromises bass output and decreases the 'punch' as you described.. I'd rather not loose that.

 I have not tried 2134's yet. Because the way my computer is built (watercooled), its a real pain in the ass to get the STX out from all the tubing going around it. So I'm looking for a combo that I can do once, and hopefully never touch again (until I have time/funds to redo my water loop) 

 So what I'm looking for is the bass to stay the same (or get better) but the highs to just be tamed a little bit which I think on its own will bring the mids up a little bit but if the opamps do that themselves, then bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: not using any EQ.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Boj, I got a set of extension wires, you can get them from Audio-GD or Burson and they allow you to do testing with opamps without removing your card. When you find the set of opamps you really like then pull the card and add the opamps.

 I asked about the EQ as maybe you could fine tune the signature with the EQ to get a more precise reponse that your looking for.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah but the LME49720 compromises bass output and decreases the 'punch' as you described.. I'd rather not loose that.

 I have not tried 2134's yet. Because the way my computer is built (watercooled), its a real pain in the ass to get the STX out from all the tubing going around it. So I'm looking for a combo that I can do once, and hopefully never touch again (until I have time/funds to redo my water loop) 

 So what I'm looking for is the bass to stay the same (or get better) but the highs to just be tamed a little bit which I think on its own will bring the mids up a little bit but if the opamps do that themselves, then bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: not using any EQ._

 

I think you should still try it. The bass punch is decreased but I think it's still adequate. The soundstage increase and improved frequency response linearity may be worth the bass punch trade-off for you.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I would check out the 2134's they add a bit more weight to the bass and mids.
 That is what I wrote down when I tested them, now looking back at my notes.


----------



## genclaymore

robscix how would 2x LMA4562 in the I/V sound when using them with the OPA627au's if you know.

 not that i gonna buy them I just wondering. Tho I am thinking about changing the OPA's to maybe 637BPs, But i not sure.

 What would be some you recommand other then BP's for the buffer,that still opens the sound up. but balance sound unless I just basicy said the opa637's?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Some have tried the OPA627's and found they were not a good match with the 2114D's.

 You can try the LM4562 NA in the I/V. They may work out better for you then the others.


----------



## 12Bass

After some more listening, I think I prefer the OPA827 to AD825. In comparison to the somewhat lively presence of the AD825, the OPA827 seems to have a flatter/cleaner sound with a smoother, more present midrange. On first listen I was taken by the lively, open sound of the AD825; however, after a while I came to appreciate the musical midrange response of the OPA827. From what I can tell, the OPA211 sounds a bit better (more natural) than the LM4562/LME49720. And, oddly, I also noticed that the LME49720 sounds a bit clearer than the LM4562!


----------



## Bojamijams

Are you talking about the OPA825 in the buffer spot with the stock 2114 in the I/V section?


----------



## 12Bass

Sorry... no.... different application. Still, IMO, the OPA827 is worth an audition if you're looking for something clean/neutral with a nice midrange, probably best in the buffer role instead of I/V in STX. Just a bit of an op amp junkie....


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been hearing good things about the OPA827's though and I have a few of them. Just need some adapters.

 I want to try those out on the card.


----------



## Alienns

2x BurrBrown OPA2134 vs 2x Default JRC`s... 
 JRC is litle more detailed, more transparent and bass is very precise.
 Nothing more to say.
 I`ll stay on JRC`s for now. I will try to get all 3x LME49720 tommorrow but i`m affraid that they don`t have in store so i will need to wait for some days for that.
 Now i pull out 2x JRC`s again and put in my Audiotrak HD2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and boommmm again, this sound card is like new now ^^
 Sound very similar to Asus but bass is not so perfect like on Asus probably because there is no Sanyo Oscon condensator`s on digital part and rest are just ordinary condensators on card. On Audiotrak HD2 GOLD there all all Nihicom and Oscons and OPA2134.
 btw if u look in Default LM opa PDF you will see something that you can`t find almost in any OPA. Some kind of Super symetric connection between transistors inside like in latest Pass Aleph Turntable phono amplifier`s. That`s his patent and that`s one of best in the world phono amp by many many high end magazines. That`s the reason why we have 0.0003% THD No other OPA have this.
 I personally didn`t hear so detailed music before anywhere than from this soundcard.
 I agree with first post from autor of other thread : "The Essence STX will expose a recording for what it really is and if it's trash, then it will sound like trash."
 Maybe we just don`t want to hear so detailed and precise music because we never hear that before. 
 Try to connect this soundcard WITHOUT preamplifier direct in Mono block, 2v should be enough to power your mono blocks to hear pretty loud music. Than you will hear everything!
 So BB OPA2134 No No if you ask me.
 Got BB OPA2604 too but i`m not trying them because they are not so good, even OPA2134 are much beter than them and same goes to Fairchild NE5532N

 edit: when i try other opamps i`ll post here.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well everybody has their opinion on soudn signature I guess. Really depends on what you after for end sound signature.

 Personally I haven't used chip opamps in the ST 7.1 for awhile as I have been testing with Discrete HDAM modules.

 Many know the LM4562 and other from that series are great opamps for many applications that is why they are in this card for Buffer stage.


----------



## Funky-kun

Talking about opamps, I think I've ended my quest for the perfect ones. Here are my impressions. All testing done through HP out with HD650s.

*JRC2114 (default)* : I actually think the default opamp for the card is a really good choice. Had it not been for the bassy and dark signature of my cans, I would have kept these. They actually sound the best with my HD595s. Bass is very deep, with perfect extension, just a bit too much in quality for the HD650s. The highs tend to be a bit rolled off, and the soundstage is pretty wide, but not deep and high. I imagine these would sound fantastic with headphones like K701/2 or DT880, but is too heavy for my current cans.

*LT1364* : I didn't like these very much. Bass seems neutral, but lacks punch. Mid and highs are well balanced, but soundstage isn't that much better than 2114. Detail is improved. Sounds too weightless.

*OPA2134* : Disappointment. As Alienns stated, the default opamps are just better. These have more bass, but the quality is degraded in comparison. With these opamps the bass on 650s sounded like the one on my HD212. (read: boomy) Highs are also rolled off. The soundstage isn't impressive, but opens a bit after burn-in. Sounded "dense", in the sense that all the sounds are too close to you and without good positioning.

*LME49720* : All I can say is these babies ROCK. Bass lacks just a little bit of extension, but is very natural sounding and punchy. Highs are brighter than average, but that cancels out with the dark signature of my headphones well, resulting in an overall neutral tonality. Soundstage is absolutely awesome. You can easily position instruments in direction and distance. Has the depth other opamps are missing. All details are clearly present, but the sound is a bit distant due to the soundstaging. My current and final choice.

*LM6172* : These are very close in sound to the LME49720. Biggest difference is that they aren't so distant sounding. That means less soundstage and a bit better bass. I didn't find the trade off worthwhile. Still a very valid choice.

 I hope all of you find the perfect opamp match for your headphones. I have done it.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talking about opamps, I think I've ended my quest for the perfect ones. Here are my impressions. All testing done through HP out with HD650s.

*JRC2114 (default)* : I actually think the default opamp for the card is a really good choice. Had it not been for the bassy and dark signature of my cans, I would have kept these. They actually sound the best with my HD595s. Bass is very deep, with perfect extension, just a bit too much in quality for the HD650s. The highs tend to be a bit rolled off, and the soundstage is pretty wide, but not deep and high. I imagine these would sound fantastic with headphones like K701/2 or DT880, but is too heavy for my current cans.

*LT1364* : I didn't like these very much. Bass seems neutral, but lacks punch. Mid and highs are well balanced, but soundstage isn't that much better than 2114. Detail is improved. Sounds too weightless.

*OPA2134* : Disappointment. As Alienns stated, the default opamps are just better. These have more bass, but the quality is degraded in comparison. With these opamps the bass on 650s sounded like the one on my HD212. (read: boomy) Highs are also rolled off. The soundstage isn't impressive, but opens a bit after burn-in. Sounded "dense", in the sense that all the sounds are too close to you and without good positioning.

*LME49720* : All I can say is these babies ROCK. Bass lacks just a little bit of extension, but is very natural sounding and punchy. Highs are brighter than average, but that cancels out with the dark signature of my headphones well, resulting in an overall neutral tonality. Soundstage is absolutely awesome. You can easily position instruments in direction and distance. Has the depth other opamps are missing. All details are clearly present, but the sound is a bit distant due to the soundstaging. My current and final choice.

*LM6172* : These are very close in sound to the LME49720. Biggest difference is that they aren't so distant sounding. That means less soundstage and a bit better bass. I didn't find the trade off worthwhile. Still a very valid choice.

 I hope all of you find the perfect opamp match for your headphones. I have done it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pretty much spot on IMO. The only finding I disagree with is the punchy bass of the LME49720. They have less punchy, less prominent, less defined and slightly less extended bass than the JRC2114's. This is further accentuated by the large soundstage and brighter nature of the LME49720s. I wouldn't say the bass with LME49720s is bad, but it's just not as good as the default setup, even if the default has a bit too much of it. With bassy cans like the DT990, 3xLME49720 did a wonderful job of smoothing the bass hump and really expanding the soundstage. However, with the DT990s specifically, 1xLM6172 / 2xLME49720 was better than 3xLME49720. Overall though, with the HD650s, I've kept 3xLME49720s in use the longest and I prefer their sound over all the other combinations.

 Another thing I've noticed is that the LME49720 in the I/V lower the resolution and speed of the sound compared to the stock setup. Basically the sound is more wet than the stock setup. This is a tradeoff for what they do to the soundstage (make it holographic).


----------



## genclaymore

if I some how get OPA827's on a adaptor tho i have no soliding skills I was gonna use them in the buffer then use 2 x opa2277s in my I/V spots.


----------



## chinesekiwi

mmmm...so the LM6172 is nearly as good as the LME49720 at half the price..mmmmm....


----------



## Bojamijams

the 2x 6172 seems like it'd match up well with the Grado quality of 'in your face' ... should go nice with my RS-1's


----------



## Funky-kun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmmm...so the LM6172 is nearly as good as the LME49720 at half the price..mmmmm...._

 

If price is an issue, you can order free samples from here.


----------



## genclaymore

Too bad the shipping isnt free if you have a non company email =/.

 Edit OPA2134PA in IV other then tighter bass it does makes my headphones more, I cant think of that word like way way more brighter and my left ear got fatiage because of the OPA2134PA's and like certain details is lost at the high feqs or something. because certain songs have way too might highs. If i explain it right. Even tho I love the brightness But this way too much brightness from these OPA2134s.


 And I read that OPA2277's has more details in the highs over the OPA2134 without giving you ear tired. In my case my left ear. Just took a song with alot of high to do it from the OPA2134PA's.

 Unless it was just those couple songs that are bad.


----------



## twhtpclover

A new review of Xonar Essence STX on Techgage:
Techgage - ASUS Xonar Essence STX

 Date: April 6, 2009
 Author(s): Rory Buszka

 The majority of the high-end PC audio cards targeted at enthusiasts typically focus on multi-channel performance, with a variety of decoding modes, DSP enhancements, and other features tossed in. The Xonar Essence STX from ASUS has an entirely different focus - delivering audiophile-quality stereo output.


----------



## Salvador

I'm wondering whether this card supports spdif-in for PCM input.

 It is mentioned in the review posted that the card has an SPDIF-in header. Can I use this to stream 2-channel PCM input to the soundcard?

Techgage - ASUS Xonar Essence STX Page 3


----------



## ROBSCIX

There is NO header labled S/Pdif_IN on the STX.... There is a internal S/Pdif out...which can be used to connect to a GFX card. Nor is there a S/Pdif input in the mixer last time I looked.


----------



## 12Bass

No digital in, even with an adapter? That's unfortunate. Shame not to be able to use that nice DAC with other digital sources.


----------



## twhtpclover

From the review: 
  Quote:


 What's mildly disappointing is that ASUS didn't simply pre-install high-end opamps, leaving the true performance potential of the card to be 'sold separately' instead. 
 

Seems the guy Rory in Techgage doesn't like LM4562 and JRC2114.
 But it seems to be an above average combination already, isn't it?


----------



## Bojamijams

it definetly is a magic combination.. the asus audio engineer knew what he was doing when he selected those .. I dunno why the techgage guy think the LM4562 isn't a high-end opamp.. other then he's clueless


----------



## 12Bass

Yep... at least as far as LM4562 goes.... exceptional performer in terms of THD+N.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the review: 


 Seems the guy Rory in Techgage doesn't like LM4562 and JRC2114.
 But it seems to be an above average combination already, isn't it?_

 

Seems that guy should stick to reviewing something else...

 Given the output quality of the STX,that combination is very good. Of course there are better opamps to use.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it definetly is a magic combination.. the asus audio engineer knew what he was doing when he selected those .. I dunno why the techgage guy think the LM4562 isn't a high-end opamp.. other then he's clueless_

 

Clueless would be my guess.

 The designers could have used 5532's for I/V as the reference designs but they decided to go with 2114's instead and while not the best audio opamps out there they still offer up a bit more audio muscle then 5532's or other generic opamps found in many cards out there. The LM4562NA is also a great opamp with spectacular measurments and ratings for cheap price.

 I have opamps worth more then the card itself but the desingers have to balance price with performance and given the price and performance of the STX they found a awsome balance in my opinion.


----------



## Salvador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is NO header labled S/Pdif_IN on the STX.... There is a internal S/Pdif out...which can be used to connect to a GFX card. Nor is there a S/Pdif input in the mixer last time I looked._

 

So the reviewer had a different card then? How come he has a picture of an SPDIF-In header?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Salvador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the reviewer had a different card then? How come he has a picture of an SPDIF-In header?



_

 

No, the reviewer has a normal STX. 

 That picture you posted is of the top Pin headers that are AUX-IN (analog) and Front Panel out....So there is NO S/Pdif input there
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is another header on the rear edge of the card but in and out header for S/Pdif are the same
 that header is labeled S/Pdif OUT.....


----------



## Shahrose

Hey ROB, how are the opamp tests coming along? My next purchases will likely be discrete opamps.


----------



## awesom-o

noob question: is it safe to swap opamps when the computer is running, or will it most likely damage the card and/or opamp? I would be using extension cables, and no sounds playing during the swap ofcourse.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey ROB, how are the opamp tests coming along? My next purchases will likely be discrete opamps._

 

Great, I am very impressed with what I have heard so far.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *awesom-o* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_noob question: is it safe to swap opamps when the computer is running, or will it most likely damage the card and/or opamp? I would be using extension cables, and no sounds playing during the swap ofcourse._

 

Don't even think about it.


----------



## genclaymore

Kill the card and prolly shock your self and fry something esle in the comp.


----------



## 12Bass

Power-on swaps are not a good idea. I killed a couple of (relatively) expensive chips doing that.


----------



## mikej327

Would the Woo 6 amp be a good one to use with this?


----------



## Aquanote

i´m using the stx with winamp and the asio plugin. works fine, and sounds good too.

 but for some reason 1 third of my mp3´s wont even start to play with asio on. I press start and nothing happens. I can´t make out the difference between the mp3´s that play and those that do not. I also tried switching between the different khz settings, but that seems not to be the cause of it as it doesnt change anything.

 anyone has an idea what this could be?


----------



## Alienns

Probably because your mp3 are not 44.1 kHz - 16 bit. or contain a virus like *Trojan.Brisv.A!inf*
 Read more about that here --> Trojan.Brisv.A!inf | Symantec
 btw. If you not have any of this two than try use Winamp Kernel Streaming Plugin from Assorted Steve Monks Related Stuff this one have same quality as asio.


----------



## awesom-o

OK, thanks for the answers. Then I wont make that mistake


----------



## genclaymore

Got my OPA2277 in the mail along with some OPA228s and some OPA827AIds which i use after I some how solder them with non solder skills.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

REVIEW WHIT THE BURSON DICRETE OPAMPS

 My Burson discrete op-amps have now more than 100 hours burn in. I have burn it whit all kinds of music and also purple sound. 

 The first effect after I replaced the regular opamps was the big sound stage in front of me (when I closed my eyes I could imagine all the performers in front of me, as I would listen to a ordinary speakers), a little bit more softness and the sound was very airy but clear. (RCA output whit AKG701)

 Than I changed to head-amp of the card and I figured out the depth of the soundstage was gone. It was like that the performers are in my head. But the sound was clear, a little bit warm and very precise - natural 
 I did not like this configuration because of the sound in my head.
 THE LAST BURSON OPAMP makes the difference!!!

 So I switched back to RCAs!
 Now it has been more then 100 hours of burn in.
 I really dont know where does this little sound card get this superb sound from. 
 Its bright, open, punchy, clear, natural, very dynamic. Every time I play a song it surprises me all the time. Maybe I am a little bit romantic but the sound card has a soul. I dont want to make some sort of ads for the burson guys but it really makes the difference for my taste. I like to hear the sound stage in front of me like I will take a seat a enjoy it live. Whit this configuration I would say it is so. I am enjoying it. 
 Imagine how it will sound whit a external headamp!


 I also tried some other combinations:
 I/V section whit burson and buffer LM4562 and JRCs in I/V whit burson as buffer.
 In all this combinations I found some issues. 

 I just ordered a couple of mundorf caps to enhance the opamps!!! Will see?


----------



## genclaymore

Yea I like the 2xOPA2277PA much better in my I/V sockets then the 2xOPA2134 They just sound better to me combine with the 2xOPA627's out my headphones.

 While the 2x OPA2134 added more highs or brightness to my headphones. more then what I wanted.


----------



## Bojamijams

Man all this opamp testing is teasing me with my watercool setup that prevents the ease of this. I'm gonna have to redesign my loop to allow for quicker replacement of the STX .. this is such a tease!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man all this opamp testing is teasing me with my watercool setup that prevents the ease of this. I'm gonna have to redesign my loop to allow for quicker replacement of the STX .. this is such a tease!!!_

 

Get some extension from burson or Audio-GD, this will allow you to test without removing your card. When you find what your looking for then install them in the card.


----------



## Bojamijams

Yeah I read that and I definetly will but I literarily have to drain my loop to be able to get it out so to do all that just for a tester extension which I will then have to drain again to remove extension once I settle on my choices is dreadfull.. 

 Redoing the loop for a better arrangement has been moved up on the to-do list because of this damn thread now however so.. shouldn't be too long I think


----------



## VykRO

Why don;t you try to free al circuit components (from their position) and take out the whole installation? Then mount it again, without emptying the cooling liquid?


----------



## Bojamijams

heh trust me... if it was possible, I'd do it. Upside down ATX form style is a pain in the ass.

 But anyway.. back to STX op-amp discussion..


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_REVIEW WHIT THE BURSON DICRETE OPAMPS

 My Burson discrete op-amps have now more than 100 hours burn in. I have burn it whit all kinds of music and also purple sound. 

 The first effect after I replaced the regular opamps was the big sound stage in front of me (when I closed my eyes I could imagine all the performers in front of me, as I would listen to a ordinary speakers), a little bit more softness and the sound was very airy but clear. (RCA output whit AKG701)

 Than I changed to head-amp of the card and I figured out the depth of the soundstage was gone. It was like that the performers are in my head. But the sound was clear, a little bit warm and very precise - natural 
 I did not like this configuration because of the sound in my head.
 THE LAST BURSON OPAMP makes the difference!!!

 So I switched back to RCAs!
 Now it has been more then 100 hours of burn in.
 I really dont know where does this little sound card get this superb sound from. 
 Its bright, open, punchy, clear, natural, very dynamic. Every time I play a song it surprises me all the time. Maybe I am a little bit romantic but the sound card has a soul. I dont want to make some sort of ads for the burson guys but it really makes the difference for my taste. I like to hear the sound stage in front of me like I will take a seat a enjoy it live. Whit this configuration I would say it is so. I am enjoying it. 
 Imagine how it will sound whit a external headamp!


 I also tried some other combinations:
 I/V section whit burson and buffer LM4562 and JRCs in I/V whit burson as buffer.
 In all this combinations I found some issues. 

 I just ordered a couple of mundorf caps to enhance the opamps!!! Will see?_

 

I wonder if the soundstage is like what I get from 3xLME49720. If someone can confirm that the discrete opamps sound better than those, then I'll be the next on Audio-gd's list of customers.


----------



## Ansh

Do I actually need any tools to change the OPAMP for this card?
 Sorry if this question is stupid because I have never tried to DIY or modify something
 I've also read some posts in this thread talking about the LM6172
 I tried to type the word the web site and I found a lots of results like this:
Browse for Products | Farnell Hong Kong

 I'm totally confused , how do I know which one I need and know whether it is suitable for the card?
 Please help


----------



## Funky-kun

The only tool you're gonna need is a screwdriver to take the shield off. 
 The LM6172 you're looking for is this one. Basically the version you are going to need is the MDIP / 8-DIP one.

 Bonus: If you've got a .edu or corporate email, you can order free samples for some opamps from here. (example)


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only tool you're gonna need is a screwdriver to take the shield off. 
 The LM6172 you're looking for is this one. Basically the version you are going to need is the MDIP / 8-DIP one.

 Bonus: If you've got a .edu or corporate email, you can order free samples for some opamps from here. (example)_

 

Thanks for your help
 So does that means that any MDIP/8-DIP one can fit with STX?


----------



## genclaymore

Then a bios chip puller that I cant think of, is what I use to get the op-amps off. 8-Dip witll fit into the socket, its the soic that your gonna need to solder to a chip. 

 Also remember some op-amps you need two of for the buffer socket if there single channel op-amps.


----------



## Funky-kun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your help
 So does that means that any MDIP/8-DIP one can fit with STX?_

 

I cannot say that with confidence. I'd recommend sticking to the opamps mentioned in this thread. Maybe someone more experienced would elaborate on this? I think there was some kind of voltage difference or something between opamps?


----------



## Ansh

I'm sorry if the question is just stupid
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm really have no knowledge about this electronic stuff
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It seems that this card has three opamps changable( 2 I/V sockets and 1 buffer socket)
 What's the difference?
 BTW, do you guys directly connect your headphone from the back of your computer or just connect it with an extension cable?

 From the posts, it seems that LM6172, LT1364, LM4562, LT1361, OPA2134, LT1057 and LME49860 can be used and the 6172 has quite a lot positive responses here, hope I did't make anything wrong
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One more question, does the OPAMP rolling affect both the RCA output and the headphone out?


----------



## Funky-kun

The two I/V opamps affect the headphone out, and the buffer opamp, together with the I/V ones, affects the line out. That means if you're going to use headphone out, you don't need to bother with the buffer opamp. Otherwise you can use all three to tailor the sound to your liking.

 I connect my HD650s directly to the headphone out, as the cable is very long and it causes me no problems. I believe most of the other users do it this way as well (if not using an external amp, that is).

 Yes, the opamps you have listed are the popular ones when it comes to rolling with this card. If you search this thread you will find reviews on them (including mine, 2 pages back I think).


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two I/V opamps affect the headphone out, and the buffer opamp, together with the I/V ones, affects the line out. That means if you're going to use headphone out, you don't need to bother with the buffer opamp. Otherwise you can use all three to tailor the sound to your liking.

 I connect my HD650s directly to the headphone out, as the cable is very long and it causes me no problems. I believe most of the other users do it this way as well (if not using an external amp, that is).

 Yes, the opamps you have listed are the popular ones when it comes to rolling with this card. If you search this thread you will find reviews on them (including mine, 2 pages back I think)._

 

Thanks again
 So I only need to change the buffer opamp if I am using it with a speaker through the RCA...
 Are the OPAMPs in the two I/V socket necessary identical or can I just mix two types of different OPAMPs?


----------



## genclaymore

I would use same Two op-amps in the I/V's sockets.


----------



## Ansh

Another question
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Are DIP and 8-DIP OPAMPs compatiable?
 I am trying to find the LT1361 and find no version of 8-DIP but one of DIP
 The pins look similar through those pictures?(8 pins with similar shape)
 Thanks again


----------



## genclaymore

the Dip- 8 are 4 pins on each side of the op-amp like each side has 4 pins poining in a / \ way. while Soic-8 has 4 pins on each side like _ _ .


----------



## flopper

Best buy I have made in years.
 This card simply is making me cry when listening to music and its good when your sister wont go home when listening to music.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are DIP and 8-DIP OPAMPs compatiable?
 I am trying to find the LT1361 and find no version of 8-DIP but one of DIP
 The pins look similar through those pictures?(8 pins with similar shape)
 Thanks again_

 

Yes. they are the same thing. Some call them DIP (Dual Inline Package) -Denotes the chip package two rows of 4 Pins. -Some call them DIP 8 or just DIP. There is also SOIC8, which is a surface mount IC, you would need a adapter to use those on the STX.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again
 So I only need to change the buffer opamp if I am using it with a speaker through the RCA...
 Are the OPAMPs in the two I/V socket necessary identical or can I just mix two types of different OPAMPs?_

 

Youn need two of the same Opamps for the I/V position because those chips translate to the Left and right chanels. -If you used two different opamps your channels would sound different, which is not very good.
 You can use different opamps from the I/V to the buffer.

 There are three opamps on the card. The two that are side by side are the I/V converter section and the one in front by itself is the Buffer.
 Just in case, I/V= Current to Voltage.


----------



## kuben

I have this card for one day and i cannot hear BIG difference between stx and my onboard card i use latest asus drivers foobar+hdj-2000 win xp, many flac's,320's so whats wrong? I need to burn-in? Change headphones? Enable ASIO? Clear my ears? Go to hell?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have this card for one day and i cannot hear BIG difference between stx and my onboard card i use latest asus drivers foobar+hdj-2000 win xp, many flac's,320's so whats wrong? I need to burn-in? Change headphones? Enable ASIO? Clear my ears? Go to hell?_

 

Enabling WASAPI or ASIO and using lossless music will help significantly. However, the most important point is to use high-end transparent headphones, like the HD650s.


----------



## Bojamijams

Spend some time with the STX (few days) then go and try your onboard again... you'll see the difference

 your ears aren't developed/trained enough yet .. give it a try, you'll see what I mean

 I have no idea what HDJ is however..


----------



## ROBSCIX

HDJ-2000, pioneer cans. -IIRC.


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are DIP and 8-DIP OPAMPs compatiable?
 I am trying to find the LT1361 and find no version of 8-DIP but one of DIP
 The pins look similar through those pictures?(8 pins with similar shape)
 Thanks again_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. they are the same thing. Some call them DIP (Dual Inline Package) -Denotes the chip package two rows of 4 Pins. -Some call them DIP 8 or just DIP. There is also SOIC8, which is a surface mount IC, you would need a adapter to use those on the STX._

 

You also want to make sure any opamp you buy has the correct number of channels as well. There are single (1-channel), dual (2-channel), and quad (4-channel) opamps out there that all use the DIP-8 package. 

 The STX uses all Dual opamps. so for example the LM6172 (dual) works great. The LM6171 (single) would not work even though it's also a DIP-8 package because it only has 1 channel.

 Looking at the link you provided, for the LM6172 the one you'd want to get is this one. Although this one here looks to be the exact same part at twice the cost. Weird.

 Also, you'll want to have either a chip extractor or pair of needlenose pliers to get the opamps out of their sockets. They're only held in by tension, but the tension is strong enough that it'd be difficult to get them out of their sockets with your fingers without risking bending the pins all to hell in the process.


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You also want to make sure any opamp you buy has the correct number of channels as well. There are single (1-channel), dual (2-channel), and quad (4-channel) opamps out there that all use the DIP-8 package. 

 The STX uses all Dual opamps. so for example the LM6172 (dual) works great. The LM6171 (single) would not work even though it's also a DIP-8 package because it only has 1 channel.

 Looking at the link you provided, for the LM6172 the one you'd want to get is this one. Although this one here looks to be the exact same part at twice the cost. Weird.

 Also, you'll want to have either a chip extractor or pair of needlenose pliers to get the opamps out of their sockets. They're only held in by tension, but the tension is strong enough that it'd be difficult to get them out of their sockets with your fingers without risking bending the pins all to hell in the process._

 

Well, I'm sticking with the recommendations here so I hope that I wouldn't make mistakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The price thing is wierd though, so should I just go for the cheaper one?


----------



## Alydon

Yes I would go for the cheaper one, if for no other reason than it's cheaper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not the first time that I've seen a website have multiple entries for the same part.

 If you can tho, I'd suggest getting it from Digikey here instead, since I *know* that's the correct part...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yeah, I forgot to mention channels as they do look the same but they are usually denote din the # as Alydon pointed out. Just make sure your looking at DIP 8 with 2 channels. You can go with SOIC8 but you will need a adapters.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talking about opamps, I think I've ended my quest for the perfect ones. Here are my impressions. All testing done through HP out with HD650s.

*JRC2114 (default)* : I actually think the default opamp for the card is a really good choice. Had it not been for the bassy and dark signature of my cans, I would have kept these. They actually sound the best with my HD595s. Bass is very deep, with perfect extension, just a bit too much in quality for the HD650s. The highs tend to be a bit rolled off, and the soundstage is pretty wide, but not deep and high. I imagine these would sound fantastic with headphones like K701/2 or DT880, but is too heavy for my current cans.

*LT1364* : I didn't like these very much. Bass seems neutral, but lacks punch. Mid and highs are well balanced, but soundstage isn't that much better than 2114. Detail is improved. Sounds too weightless.

*OPA2134* : Disappointment. As Alienns stated, the default opamps are just better. These have more bass, but the quality is degraded in comparison. With these opamps the bass on 650s sounded like the one on my HD212. (read: boomy) Highs are also rolled off. The soundstage isn't impressive, but opens a bit after burn-in. Sounded "dense", in the sense that all the sounds are too close to you and without good positioning.

*LME49720* : All I can say is these babies ROCK. Bass lacks just a little bit of extension, but is very natural sounding and punchy. Highs are brighter than average, but that cancels out with the dark signature of my headphones well, resulting in an overall neutral tonality. Soundstage is absolutely awesome. You can easily position instruments in direction and distance. Has the depth other opamps are missing. All details are clearly present, but the sound is a bit distant due to the soundstaging. My current and final choice.

*LM6172* : These are very close in sound to the LME49720. Biggest difference is that they aren't so distant sounding. That means less soundstage and a bit better bass. I didn't find the trade off worthwhile. Still a very valid choice.

 I hope all of you find the perfect opamp match for your headphones. I have done it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Sorry to quote this again but mmm..looking at these comparsions, looks like the DT880 might fit well with the LM6172.

 That said, I might get 2 LME49720's and 3 LM6172 to do a nice comparison.

 Anyone done a 2 LME 49720 + 1 LM6172 buffer or 3 x LM6172 comparison?


----------



## Alydon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to quote this again but mmm..looking at these comparsions, looks like the DT880 might fit well with the LM6172.

 That said, I might get 2 LME49720's and 3 LM6172 to do a nice comparison.

 Anyone done a 2 LME 49720 + 1 LM6172 buffer or 3 x LM6172 comparison?_

 

Yes, I have. With 3x6172 the mid/upper-bass hump the 6172 has was too overbearing w/ the DT990's, although the 880's probably won't suffer from it as much. However, the soundstage was a little too small, which the 880's would feel as well. And instrument decay also truncated a little too quickly, making it sound like the music didn't have enough chance to breathe. 

 The 1x6172 + 2x49720 combo is an excellent choice for Beyer's, though. It's my favorite setup actually (as evidenced by my sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )...


----------



## chinesekiwi

You done a 3 x 49720 combo / 2 x 49720 + default buffer (LM4562) comparison?

 LM4562 = LME49720 right?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The 3X 49720 combo is not too bad at all.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Alydon, have you bought the discrete units yet?


----------



## genclaymore

How would 3x 2277 Dip 8 sound, Like since I already have them in my I/V. I wonder how one would sound in my buffer since there dual channel.

 Sady i only ordred 2 of them instead of 3.


----------



## shuttleboi

Some questions on the Essence:

 1. Do the drivers work with Windows 7 Beta 64-bit?

 2. Is the Essence a better soundcard than the HT Omega Claro Halo for listening to FLAC music? (I have Senn 595 headphones.)

 3. Has anyone come across a modern videogame where the Essence performs poorly or not at all?


----------



## genclaymore

1. yes they do as I using Xonar HDAV13 drivers in windows 7 beta just fine.

 2. Yes the essence is the better card then the HT omega clario halo .

 3.I been gaming with my HDAV13 for a while now and I haven notice any poor performance at all. Might not be a STX but still shouldnt be a problem.Then I have a overclocked system.


----------



## okydoke

when using low impedance phones (AD900's in my example) is it better to run through the headphone output with 0 gain, and have the volume at 1,2 or 3 - or is it better to run it from the L/R channels so that I don't have to have the master volume so low?


----------



## genclaymore

i think the lowest gain is for low ohms headphones.


----------



## Alienns

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have this card for one day and i cannot hear BIG difference between stx and my onboard card i use latest asus drivers foobar+hdj-2000 win xp, many flac's,320's so whats wrong? I need to burn-in? Change headphones? Enable ASIO? Clear my ears? Go to hell?_

 

Latest integrated soundcards sound 20x better than any previous chips. Previous chips was total crap for hi-fi. Some of new one`s even sounds like X-Fi. They can be found on latest (higher models) Gigabyte motherboards like P35-DQ6, P45-DQ6 etc. Of course STX is better but for integrated sound is huge step in sound quality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: If you have one of this latest integrated soundcards and not so good headphones or amplifier with good speakers you will not notice some huge difference between them.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm noticing a puzzling thing... sometimes, one song will play with a much slower tempo (and sometimes faster tempo) then normal. If I stop and play again, it'll go to normal tempo.

 I'm not sure if its foobar, ASIO, vista or the essence STX but I thought I'd ask if anyone noticed something like this?


----------



## genclaymore

I dont notice any thing like that But I using Winamp/Xmplay with Asio and not foobar, and then in win7 build 7077 beta and not my vista boot.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Bojamijams
 I think it may be ASIO, I am just guessing; perhaps something with the sampling rates?


----------



## genclaymore

Have any of you guys tried 3x OPA2277 (two I/V and one in buffer) if so how did it sound?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm noticing a puzzling thing... sometimes, one song will play with a much slower tempo (and sometimes faster tempo) then normal. If I stop and play again, it'll go to normal tempo.

 I'm not sure if its foobar, ASIO, vista or the essence STX but I thought I'd ask if anyone noticed something like this?_

 

It's the ASIO tbh. Kernel Streaming doesn't have this problem.


----------



## willykatie

At the moment i use Xonar D2X paired with HD555 and just wondering if i see improvements if i get this?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *willykatie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment i use Xonar D2X paired with HD555 and just wondering if i see improvements if i get this?_

 

You may notice a change depending on how well you can pick up the subtleties of audio. However, I can say with confidence that the HD555's will be the limiting factor in the chain. You would notice a more pronounced improvement with a more transparent high end pair of headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The D2X has about a 118db SNR, where the STX has about a 124dB SNR. That is just one measurment but I think you get the idea. The STX is the flagship Xonar.

 One thing about hte HD555, is they don't require the amplifier chip so you can use them with the line-out and get the full sound qulaity avialble from that STX.


----------



## Telix

A few questions - where is the best place to order opamps, specifically the ones mentioned in this thread?

 Additionally, what opamps would those who have HEARD THEM suggest for good synergy with the Denon AH-D2000s? A big reason I bought them is that I love the energy and oomph they bring to music, while still being extremely smooth and liquid.

 Based on some descriptions, I'm thinking of the LME49720, which sounds very fun and energetic, or the LM6172 which seems like it might be a bit more direct than the LME. Additionally, should I go 3xLME49720 or maybe a 1x/2x combination?

 Thoughts?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Usually any local electrnoics house or mail/internet order companies will have what your after. Such as Digikey or others.
 Make sure you order dual channel and DIP8 of whatever unit your foudn in the thread.


----------



## el_boucher

Hi guys,

 Do you think there is a big difference between the STX and a m-audio firewire audiophile or a ESI juli@ for a HIFI use with analog outputs only ? 

 (I use a rotel integrated amplifier with high-end 4-ways speakers)


 thanks in advance for advise if you can compare these cards !


----------



## dex85

today i was reorganizing some cables in my case and noticed an interesting thing. i have a modular psu(Corsair HX520W). before i started to make changes i had xonar plugged in through tree-way molex : HDD->DVD-RAM->Xonar Essence. this time i plugged xonar through a single molex. so i started the pc, not expecting any changes whatsoever. i played some songs and was immediately shocked how better it sounded. dynamic range increased throughout all volume levels. it sounded more present and bass was punchier and more accurate. 

 i have no idea what leaded to this improvement, maybe devices before xonar in previous setup had some effect on it. or it could be 
 that xonar was switched to another 12v branche that was less strained. anyway, those changes weren't subtle, i'm talking about serious improvements here.


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_today i was reorganizing some cables in my case and noticed an interesting thing. i have a modular psu(Corsair HX520W). before i started to make changes i had xonar plugged in through tree-way molex : HDD->DVD-RAM->Xonar Essence. this time i plugged xonar through a single molex. so i started the pc, not expecting any changes whatsoever. i played some songs and was immediately shocked how better it sounded. dynamic range increased throughout all volume levels. it sounded more present and bass was punchier and more accurate. 

 i have no idea what leaded to this improvement, maybe devices before xonar in previous setup had some effect on it. or it could be 
 that xonar was switched to another 12v branche that was less strained. anyway, those changes weren't subtle, i'm talking about serious improvements here._

 

This really makes no sense.


----------



## dex85

^^you mean my english or ....? be specific


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^you mean my english or ....? be specific_

 

That it could change sound quality whatsoever. Individual lines coming out of the PSU are not taxed individually, the PSU has a total load.


----------



## null_pointer_us

I've seen it affect the operation of devices. Molex connectors have this tendency to bunch up inside; when this happens, sometimes one or more of the wires will pop out enough that they're not making reliable contact. This will lead to case fans not starting, "missing" drives, etc. I have no idea what effect this would have on a sound card, though, but it'd be basically equivalent to forgetting to plug-in the molex connector.


----------



## Earwicker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That it could change sound quality whatsoever. Individual lines coming out of the PSU are not taxed individually, the PSU has a total load._

 

The other devices might introduce noise on that particular loop though - I'm not too surprised he found an improvement. You have the same problem with other domestic appliances sharing a mains loop with the hi-fi in houses - it can introduce enough noise to cause the transformers to growl and no doubt results in other audible infelicities.

 By the way, I'm looking to upgrade my PC PSU. It's currently a crap 400 W Win Power, I'm thinking about an Antec TruePower modular 550W - any thoughts anyone? (I'm an Essence owner by the way!)

 Ta,

 EW


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* 
_That it could change sound quality whatsoever. Individual lines coming out of the PSU are not taxed individually, the PSU has a total load._

 

my psu has three 12v branches/lines. wheter they are truly independant like Corsair state or it's just a gimmick is another question.i'm not gonna pretend i know what was the cause of this improvement. the fact is, the change was so apparent i would have to be half-deaf not to notice. and it wasn't placebo either, i wasn't reorganizing cables to get better sound. i'm much happier with how Essence sounds now and we can leave it at that. i'll remain happy and you can keep thinking its impossible.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Earwicker* 
_By the way, I'm looking to upgrade my PC PSU. It's currently a crap 400 W Win Power, I'm thinking about an Antec TruePower modular 550W - any thoughts anyone? (I'm an Essence owner by the way!)_

 

i would go for Enermax mod82+ 525w. very efficient, quiet and stable.


----------



## SPEEDYJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *el_boucher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 Do you think there is a big difference between the STX and a m-audio firewire audiophile or a ESI juli@ for a HIFI use with analog outputs only ? 

 (I use a rotel integrated amplifier with high-end 4-ways speakers)


 thanks in advance for advise if you can compare these cards !_

 

I cannot comment on the cards you mention but I have just replaced an EMU0404 and the STX sounds better to me through the anologue outs. This is running a set of M-Audio LX4's, not high end but very revealing for small speakers. I have a set of HD600's arriving tomorrow and I cannot wait to see how it manages with them.


----------



## Kobra

If you're about to change PSU I'd urge you all to consider the Zalman HP-series. I have the ZM850-HP which is a 850w PSU, dead silent (and I mean *really silent* - with the PSU running on the bench I had to press my ear to it to hear the fan spinning). It has a very stable power delivery and it has high efficiency of 86%. I've tried five different PSU manufacturers over the past two years (Antec, Corsair, Hiper, OZX and Zalman) and hands down the Zalman beat 'em all!

Here's a good review of the 1000w variant (basically the same as the 850, but with more power)


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my psu has three 12v branches/lines. wheter they are truly independant like Corsair state or it's just a gimmick is another question.i'm not gonna pretend i know what was the cause of this improvement. the fact is, the change was so apparent i would have to be half-deaf not to notice. and it wasn't placebo either, i wasn't reorganizing cables to get better sound. i'm much happier with how Essence sounds now and we can leave it at that. i'll remain happy and you can keep thinking its impossible._

 

I'm actually more interested in what CAUSED it to avoid it in my own setup. I won't really have many options in my Shuttle case, I fear.


----------



## el_boucher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SPEEDYJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot comment on the cards you mention but I have just replaced an EMU0404 and the STX sounds better to me through the anologue outs. This is running a set of M-Audio LX4's, not high end but very revealing for small speakers. I have a set of HD600's arriving tomorrow and I cannot wait to see how it manages with them._

 

what is the difference when listening to your speakers between your emu0404 and the new STX ?

 is it a slight one, only some small details or a huge difference as it exists between an integrated chipset (realtek...) & a decent sound card like your emu ?

 thanks in davance !


----------



## ROBSCIX

The STX has some impressive specifications and overall sound quality but the upgrade you would hear is dependant on the speakers or headphones your using.


----------



## raisedbywolves

i hope this isn't against protocol or anything, but i was wondering if anyone here has had both the hdav 1.3 and the stx both and if the hdav is suitable enough for music listening purposes, as it's obviously more geared towards htpc use, and i'm building a computer that will be doing double duty as a desktop and htpc, so i need the best of both worlds somehow. any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## genclaymore

I dont have a STX, but te HDAV has the same I/V and buffer layout like the STX, And I use my HDAV13 for music listening purposes as well and it does a great job.

 It dont have a headphone amp of course, but you can always buy a Fiio E5 and use that if you need one for up to 300ohm headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have both the STX and HDAV 1.3 Deluxe 7.1

 Aside from the STX, the HDAV 1.3 is the champion of the Xonar line-up for sound quality.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont have a STX, but te HDAV has the same I/V and buffer layout like the STX, And I use my HDAV13 for music listening purposes as well and it does a great job.

 It dont have a headphone amp of course, but you can always buy a Fiio E5 and use that if you need one for up to 300ohm headphones._

 

From that 'Before you buy headphones' sticky in the main forum:

  Quote:


 2. Portable amps aren’t the answer. Okay, sometimes they’re the answer, but mostly when portable headphones are involved. I know I’m going to get grief for this one, but so be it. I like portable amps, have owned some really nice ones, and have listened to a lot more. They are great for portable headphones, and do okay with some headphones designed for home use, but they do not take the place of a decent dedicated home amp when using headphones that were created for audiophile listening at home. Sure, they’ll make your headphones louder, but loudness does not equal sound quality, which is the real purpose of amplification. A properly driven headphone sounds amazing at very low volumes. If your lifestyle dictates that you need portability, then I suggest researching the many excellent choices in headphones that are not demanding when it comes to amplification. Don’t rush out and get a K702 because you heard it’s great with classical and expect to hear anything close to how it can sound with a portable amp. If you’re choosing a headphone that needs a amp, a portable amp may be a good stepping stone if you’re slowly building a system like I and many others did, but again, be aware of the compromise you’re making, and be happy with whatever you choose. Just think: if portable headphones were the best option for all headphones, no one would be making home amps, and that’s just not happening. 
 

Sick of the portable amp recommendations for decent headphones plague that surround here lately tbh.


----------



## raisedbywolves

ROBSCIX, does the hdav do a reasonable job for music listening purposes as is? would replacing the opamps help in that category while still remaining reasonable to use for watching movies?

 the thing is, i only have enough money for one, and i'll be using my desktop as a desktop and htpc both ... i'll probably do more music listening overall through the computer speakers than watching movies/shows through my tv setup, but the hdmi output and the ability to decode all the different formats makes the hdav 1.3 seem like the more logical pick. any thoughts?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The HDAV 1.3 is aimed at the HTPC crowds and hase those features needed for that group. However for music, it still rock very good. The sockets are there if you want to change them but it is not needed.

 The STX, is aimed at music and headphone/stereo use and has zero features for HTPC...

 I guess it is up to you which fits you the best.


----------



## raisedbywolves

yeah, i know ... it kinda sucks, considering i value the sound of music more than the sound from movies and such, but the hdmi output/ability to decode different formats is too much to pass up. i'm just wondering how messing with the opamps would affect things since it'd have to be suitable both for my preferences in listening to music plus work well with the htpc aspect as well.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From that 'Before you buy headphones' sticky in the main forum:



 Sick of the portable amp recommendations for decent headphones plague that surround here lately tbh._

 

I know it doenst take the place as a desktop amp I only suggest it because its cheap.and does what it meant to do which was drive my headphones better. I wouldnt mind a better headphone amp so i dont need to charge it up every 3-4 days tho.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raisedbywolves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, i know ... it kinda sucks, considering i value the sound of music more than the sound from movies and such, but the hdmi output/ability to decode different formats is too much to pass up. i'm just wondering how messing with the opamps would affect things since it'd have to be suitable both for my preferences in listening to music plus work well with the htpc aspect as well._

 

There is alot opamps can do to modify the sound. You can improve, or change the sonic signature more to yoru liking or both. There are many opamps recommendation in this thread for the STX, however, the HDAV 1.3 has a similar setup for opamps in the I/V ->buffer combination just the DAC is different. You may not feel you need to modify the sound at all as the HDAV 1.3 Deluxe sounds very good right out of the box.
 Same as the STX, many feel we can better tune the sound using different opamps.


----------



## raisedbywolves

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is alot opamps can do to modify the sound. You can improve, or change the sonic signature more to yoru liking or both. There are many opamps recommendation in this thread for the STX, however, the HDAV 1.3 has a similar setup for opamps in the I/V ->buffer combination just the DAC is different. You may not feel you need to modify the sound at all as the HDAV 1.3 Deluxe sounds very good right out of the box.
 Same as the STX, many feel we can better tune the sound using different opamps._

 

oh, i didn't realize the dac was different in the cards, i just thought the hdav used different opamps. the one thing i remember reading in a comparison of the two cards is that in the stx, the mids are noticeably better but the sound in general isn't too far off from each other. would you agree with this?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well, for analog surround the HDAV 1.3 is the best out of the current line-up of Xonars.

 The STX, is the best for headphones, stereo use out of the Line-up.


----------



## Sky.Live

Hi there,

 I wonder if there is any way you can swap between headphone and speaker output on the fly?
 What does FP headphone and speaker means?'

 thanks in advance


----------



## d(((--)))b

Sky.Live

 Sure you can. you can select the option from the Xonar Audio Centre. The FP headphone/speaker allows you to use the audio jacks on your PC case.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, and when you select on the other is muted. Very handy really.
 FP=Front panel, jacks on the front of your case if they are connected.


----------



## thoppa

EDIT : I found this card is a greedy beastie and wants lots of juice. 

 My crappy oem PSU just can't do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hence, the headphone cuts out but not the RCA. 

 So I'm planning to get a BFG or Corsair.....silent and pure is what I need ! 

 Hi,

 I just got one of these cards today, mainly for the headphone amp and the up-sampling spdif output.

 Unfortunately, the 6.3mm headphone output only works for about four to eight minutes, then there is a click and the driver hangs. Foobar will still play though other sound card options but nothing to do with the STX. It requires a re-boot to fix.

 It doesn't matter if I'm using direct sound or ASIO, or if there is anything else or nothing else connected to my PC. It also doesn't matter what or no headphones are connected to the output. It also doesn't matter what settings I have in the STX driver. Always the same thing; about four minutes, a click and hang.

 I'm running XP SP3 on a 3Ghz dual core in an Asus P5 barebone. I've also tried different power cables just in case but no change there either.

 Everything else works (RCA output and up-sampled spdif) and I'm using the latest driver (1726).

 Anybody else have this problem ? Is it a faulty soundcard ? Faulty driver ?

 Thanks anyone for your help and comments.

 P.S. I've also noticed a bug going from playing hi-res (96khz/24bit) to CD (44/16) files - the play continues but the new sampling rate isn't received correctly and it plays at double speed. This can be fixed without a reboot but it shows there is an architecture problem with this card ?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I just got one of these cards today, mainly for the headphone amp and the up-sampling spdif output.

 Unfortunately, the 6.3mm headphone output only works for about four to eight minutes, then there is a click and the driver hangs. Foobar will still play though other sound card options but nothing to do with the STX. It requires a re-boot to fix.

 It doesn't matter if I'm using direct sound or ASIO, or if there is anything else or nothing else connected to my PC. It also doesn't matter what or no headphones are connected to the output. It also doesn't matter what settings I have in the STX driver. Always the same thing; about four minutes, a click and hang.

 I'm running XP SP3 on a 3Ghz dual core in an Asus P5 barebone. I've also tried different power cables just in case but no change there either.

 Everything else works (RCA output and up-sampled spdif) and I'm using the latest driver (1726).

 Anybody else have this problem ? Is it a faulty soundcard ? Faulty driver ?

 Thanks anyone for your help and comments.

 P.S. I've also noticed a bug going from playing hi-res (96khz/24bit) to CD (44/16) files - the play continues but the new sampling rate isn't received correctly and it plays at double speed. This can be fixed without a reboot but it shows there is an architecture problem with this card ?_

 

It may be possible that the drivers aren't gelling well with XP SP3. On Vista 64 and Win 7 I haven't encountered any problems, especially of the extent that you mention.


----------



## thoppa

Hi,

 Well I think is is probably the driver too, but when I start up in 2 speaker output there are very faint clicks through the speakers, but through the headphones there are quite loud clicks/pops.

 I've found the same driver hang for headphone output happens even if nothing is played so I know it isn't my PC or any of my software. It is definitely the card or the driver.

 I'm waiting for Asus to reply. It was the only card in the shop so I really don't want to take it back. I'd much prefer just to get it working. 

 Man I hate crappy drivers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It has occurred to me that perhaps it is possible to use the output from the 2 op amps and share it with both the RCA and Headphone output stages.

 If the card is stable with output through the RCA, then perhaps I can hijack the signal stream at some point and share it with the headphone amp circuit ? Does anyone know if it would be possible to do this ? Would the 2 op amps handle driving both RCA op amp and the headphone amp at the same time ? That would be cool !


----------



## Telix

What methods do people use to adjust the volume when using this sound card? Kernel streaming and such usually removes the ability for the playback program to change volume levels. Having to go to the sound card control panel seems a bit clumsy, though...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What methods do people use to adjust the volume when using this sound card? Kernel streaming and such usually removes the ability for the playback program to change volume levels. Having to go to the sound card control panel seems a bit clumsy, though..._

 

My keyboard has hotkeys to directly control the Windows volume. That, and I have an external amp to control volume with.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What methods do people use to adjust the volume when using this sound card? Kernel streaming and such usually removes the ability for the playback program to change volume levels. Having to go to the sound card control panel seems a bit clumsy, though..._

 

Are you saying that KS/ASIO does not let you control the music in a play-back program e.g Foobar2000? Because I use ASIO with Foobar2000 and I am still able to change the volume in Foobar2000. 

 The only volume control that is disabled is the "Windows Wave". Is their a possiblity that I have set it up wrong? Help will be much appreciated..


----------



## Telix

Another question - can the STX auto-detect a 24/96 signal and a 16/44? I hate having to switch output frequencies in the driver between DVD-A/SACD and CD audio...


----------



## wiz567

My Asus Xonar Essence STX + AD8599
 much more bass than the original one


----------



## Telix

I thought the stock one had tons of bass already?


----------



## delancyst

Hi all,
 I got a qns about Flexbass.
 Ive set it to crossover at 80hz, but when i play a Bink test tone lower than 80hz,
 the L/R speakers still vibrate.
 I have also set my sub to 80hz while doing this.
 Am i doing this right?
 Aren't the LR supposed to be still when its playing a freq that its not supposed to?

 Funny thing is, when i play the same tone with flexbass off, the volume was WAY much louder than turned on.


----------



## moonboy403

Crossover means gradually rolling off from the crossover point you set (80hz in your case). It's not like a brick wall where everything cuts off at 80hz for your mains. 

 I also recommend that you max out your crossover frequency on your sub and let your soundcard/receiver do all the crossover work.


----------



## Telix

Here is a dumb question, perhaps.... but in the manual Asus says to use the adapter to hook your headphones up to the RCA analog outs. Is there any advantage to using this over the 1/4" headphone out, or no? Which should I use?

 Additionally, I am confused as to what output resolutions to choose in the Xonar driver and the ASIO plugin in foobar - it appears to default to 24 bit in the ASIO plugin for the card. If I am playing primarily 16/44 content should I choose those options?


----------



## Bojamijams

If you are going to use headphones, use the 1/4 headphone socket. The RCA sockets are 'line-level' and meant to be amplified. Connecting a low impedence headphone on these is gonna drain a lot of amps from your circuitry, not the most advisable thing for the longevity of your components. 

 As for the output resolution, I notice no difference between them so I just use 24bit.


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are going to use headphones, use the 1/4 headphone socket. The RCA sockets are 'line-level' and meant to be amplified. Connecting a low impedence headphone on these is gonna drain a lot of amps from your circuitry, not the most advisable thing for the longevity of your components. 

 As for the output resolution, I notice no difference between them so I just use 24bit._

 

From the manual, section 5.2:

 The Left/Right Front Out ports have a built-in high-quality amplifier to drive headphones. Connect your stereo headphones to the bundled RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable, and then connect the Left/Right ends to the to Front Left/Right Out ports on the Xonar Essence STX card.

 Is this just incorrect? It seems dumb that a card of this caliber would have incorrect documentation.


----------



## Bojamijams

Yup its incorrect. The RCA's are meant for speakers / external amplifiers.

 Made in china, what can I tell you


----------



## Linchpin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems dumb that a card of this caliber would have incorrect documentation._

 


 It's an Asus product, if you think that little mistake is bad you should see some of their motherboard manuals.


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the manual, section 5.2:

 The Left/Right Front Out ports have a built-in high-quality amplifier to drive headphones. Connect your stereo headphones to the bundled RCA-to-3.5mm Y cable, and then connect the Left/Right ends to the to Front Left/Right Out ports on the Xonar Essence STX card.

 Is this just incorrect? It seems dumb that a card of this caliber would have incorrect documentation._

 

I just downloaded the user manual for the Essence from Asus' USA site. It's dated April 14. In section 5.2 it says:

_The Headphone Out port has a built-in high-quality amplifier to drive headphones.

 Connect your stereo headphones to the Headphone Out port son the Xonar
 Essence STX card._


----------



## Ibby

Hi everyone, basically I'm a newbie to this site so forgive me if im on the wrong thread, but I have a question which has been concerning me alot?

 See, I already own the Essence stx soundcard and currently using it with the logitech z5500's via optical cable and the beats by dr dre headphones.

 I have an ultimate gaming rig, and I mainly play games, and quite often listen to music ( I have a huge music collection) and also occasionally watch movies and southpark 

 Now, should I have gone with the asus d2x, because the beats headphones use batteries (which are required for noise cancelling but im guessing they amp the headphones aswell, because they are absolutely loud in everything I plug them into including my ipod classic - correct me on this if im wrong)

 At the moment im really liking the sound quality but i dont feel im getting the full potential out of my z5500's as they also sport DTS 96/24 which the d2x supports but the essence does not! So, can anyone please advise on whether i should return the essence and get the d2x or just keep the essence? Thanks in advance


----------



## Telix

"Full potential" from a set of sub-$200 logitech 5.1 speakers, when the target market for the card is people using $250+ headphones..... sorry, dude, but you have a LOT of learning to do about mid-fi, let alone hi-fi, audio. No offense meant in the least, but at least you have a good start with the Essence STX.


----------



## delancyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crossover means gradually rolling off from the crossover point you set (80hz in your case). It's not like a brick wall where everything cuts off at 80hz for your mains. 

 I also recommend that you max out your crossover frequency on your sub and let your soundcard/receiver do all the crossover work._

 

Right...thanks for the advice.
 I shall try maxxing out the sub's crossover tonite and see what's the result.
 The S8 sub can do up to 130hz.
 I suspect that its gonna sound boomy?


----------



## teatime0315

So currently I'm using Sennheiser HD595's connected to an Audigy 2 and to be honest I think the headphones are capable of so much more. Don't get me wrong, they sound great but something is lacking. I've read that an amp is recommended for the HD595's but I don't know much about amps. I've been looking at purchasing the Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card. With a price tag of 200 dollars I want to get the biggest improvement possible. So the question is, Is this the wisest way to spend 200 dollars? I'm quite open to any method, whether it be amps or soundcards, but it must be around 200 dollars. I see it as this, with the STX i can have that built into the rig and thus reducing clutter. But if i get an amp, I'll be able to use the amp with the laptop and desktop? <- I'm not sure about this. Was anyone in a similar situation? HD595's + Audigy 2 -->> HD595's + STX


----------



## shuttleboi

I just got the Asus Essence today and am listening to my FLAC collection via Winamp with my Sennheiser 595 headphones. I am really enjoying the crystal-clear audio. The sound is absolutely amazing. However, I'm still not sure it's $200 better than the sound I was getting through my motherboard's headphone out; maybe the Realtek ALC1200 audio chipset on my new Asus i7 P6T motherboard was pretty good to begin with.

 For anyone who has a problem with *hiss*, I may have found the problem. In the Essence driver software, there is a button labelled "SVN" for Sound Volume Normalising. When I have that on, I can hear hiss while my FLACs are playing through Winamp. (Interestingly, when I stop my music, the hiss continues for about 2-3 seconds.) When I turn SVN off, the hiss goes away.

 I have some questions for those of you with this card:

 1. What setting do you use in the driver software while listening to rock music? (I listen largely to Radiohead.) Do you use the Hi-Fi setting or the Music setting (which brings up options for Dolby Headphone, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, and 7.1)?

 2. What should I use for my "sample rate" option (PCM 96 Khz, 44.1, etc.)? My source is FLAC and mp3 files ripped from CD.

 3. The advertised 124dB SNR is for the AC97 line that goes to the front audio port of your PC case, right? Not the "headphone out" in the back of the card?

 4. My PC case's AC97 line cannot reach the soundcard to allow me to use the front audio port. Are there extender cables available? I could not find such a cable on Newegg, so if someone could give me the URL of one, that would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Funky-kun

I confirm that the Xonar Essence STX breathes life into the 595s and makes them a much more enjoyable headphone. It was a clear improvement over stock X-Fi Xtreme Gamer & Headroom Airhead for me.

 @ shuttleboi

 1. Use Hi-Fi. Everything else degrades the quality of music.

 2. By default the sample rate you use is best as that of your music. If it is CD quality, that should be 44.1 khz. However, the difference is really hard to tell sound-wise with the sampling rates, imo.

 3. The 124db SNR is for the Line-Out of the card. The HP-Out is 117db SNR if I am correct.

 4. There should be, but I cannot help you as I know of none. Sorry.


----------



## delancyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *delancyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right...thanks for the advice.
 I shall try maxxing out the sub's crossover tonite and see what's the result.
 The S8 sub can do up to 130hz.
 I suspect that its gonna sound boomy?_

 

well apparently maxxing out the sub made it sound worse.
 the low end lost clarity and sounded bloated.
 I guess it better stick to my current setting.


----------



## Telix

I just realized the title of this thread is spelled wrong - it's sneak peek. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we should really start a new thread for configuration/opamp rolling/etc... maybe I'll get to that today.


----------



## leeperry

so right now, I output in bitperfect from my USB soundcard, and then use the volume knob to my taste...so it's bitperfect all the way(plus it's got bitperfect WaveOut drivers).

 how would that work on this thing? can you bypass KMixer at all from within the drivers? I've seen some USB DAC's where the volume control within windows actually changed the hardware headphones amplification level...is that the same?

 what's the point to use such high end components to ruin it w/ KMixer and software volume control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I see you can select the sampling freq in the drivers...what's up w/ that ? I've got 44.1/48/96/192KHz files, can't be hassled to select by hand in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read up earlier on this thread that the OPA2114 opamps were for the headphone-out and the main, better, LM4562 opamp was for the main front out._

 

I only care for the phones output, so I could swap them?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and I see you can select the sampling freq in the drivers...what's up w/ that ? I've got 44.1/48/96/192KHz files, can't be hassled to select by hand in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 I only care for the phones output, so I could swap them?_

 

Unless you can detect an audible difference, just run it at the maximum sampling rate of your audio files.

 And yes, if you want to swap the op amps out for the headphone out, you would just change the 2, not the output buffer opamp.


----------



## leeperry

so it's resampling to the freq you choose in the drivers? blasphemy


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so it's resampling to the freq you choose in the drivers? blasphemy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I honestly have no idea, but I'd assume so?

 There is so much obsession with playback software, even if differences are completely inaudible. People act like their precious sound waves have been directly converted into bits, and not processed to hell and back in the mastering phase. Unless you can hear a difference, do what makes it easiest to enjoy the music. (And trust me, you can't.)


----------



## leeperry

ayn resampling is very much audible, especially 44.1@192...it will make the sound brighter and more saturated.

 but maybe it's simply a "max" sampling freq, will try to dl the manual...but anyway no bit-perfect drivers, software volume control are a deal breaker for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 RME has a USB soundcard w/ headphones output for 300 bucks, now we're talking


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ayn resampling is very much audible, especially 44.1@192...it will make the sound brighter and more saturated.

 but maybe it's simply a "max" sampling freq, will try to dl the manual...but anyway no bit-perfect drivers, software volume control are a deal breaker for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 RME has a USB soundcard w/ headphones output for 300 bucks, now we're talking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try listening to switching between outputs in the Xonar driver, instead of just repeating hearsay.

 What do you mean no bit-perfect drivers? I'm using ASIO right now through Foobar.


----------



## leeperry

well this card is pretty darn pricey, I'm not gonna shell out 200 bucks to find out that it resamples everything to 192KHz, that the only way to go bit-perfect is KS/ASIO/WASAPI(which is annoying, but pretty "normal" on consumer cards, only professional cards have bitperfect MME drivers like RME/M-Audio) and that the only way to change the headphones output volume is in software mode...which ruins the SQ badly.

 they should release the same soundcard in USB w/ a volume knob and bit-perfect MME/WDM Drivers, or better make the sound control work in hardware mode(like some USB DAC's do)

 the Prodigy Cube has a volume knob and bitperfect WDM drivers, how hard can that be? too bad the headphones output has a max impedance of 300Ω otherwise I would have jumped on it


----------



## leeperry

even the X-Fi has a bitmatch mode, but that ASUS soundcard does not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 true bit-perfect is not possible, except if you switch the masterclock constantly to match your source material....I'm not even pointing the irony here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 bit-perfect might be possible w/ speakers, but definitely not w/ headphones as the volume is software controlled


----------



## Telix

Enjoy worrying about stuff you can't hear and I'll enjoy what $200 can buy.


----------



## leeperry

well, resample 44.1 to 192Khz w/ ffdshow(libsamplerate/libavcodec) or SSRC in foobar....you will hear a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've opened a thread about this : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...=0#entry629224


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Enjoy worrying about stuff you can't hear and I'll enjoy what $200 can buy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

resampling is very much audible.


----------



## moop1167

If I get this to replace my x-fi xtremegamer am I going to lose all the 3d sound effects where I can simulate 5.1 and stuff through my headphones?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moop1167* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I get this to replace my x-fi xtremegamer am I going to lose all the 3d sound effects where I can simulate 5.1 and stuff through my headphones?_

 

If you care about that get a different card. Or just run it only for music and leave the x-fi in as well.


----------



## moop1167

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you care about that get a different card. Or just run it only for music and leave the x-fi in as well._

 

Well I only am considering it because of the on-board amp in the STX.


----------



## leeperry

can anyone please tell me if the mixer/EQ Settings in the drivers have any effect when you output in ASIO ? 

 maybe all those settings are only used when KMixer's enabled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and does anyone know whether it supports KS on XP?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone please tell me if the mixer/EQ Settings in the drivers have any effect when you output in ASIO ? 

 maybe all those settings are only used when KMixer's enabled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and does anyone know whether it supports KS on XP?_

 

ASIO does not mean some magical untouched signal beamed into your ears. It simply is a low-latency means for a program to communicate with the sound card. Thus the driver's effects/DSP/etc all function even when interfacing with a program through ASIO. You can simply choose not to use any extra settings.

 Windows functions do not work of course.

 And yes KS works.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, resample 44.1 to 192Khz w/ ffdshow(libsamplerate/libavcodec) or SSRC in foobar....you will hear a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Stop using bad software resamplers and try the Xonar. There's absolutely no difference going between 44.1khz and 192khz with the card. And it doesn't resample anyway if the source and settings match.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stop using bad software resamplers and try the Xonar. There's absolutely no difference going between 44.1khz and 192khz with the card. And it doesn't resample anyway if the source and settings match._

 

yeah I guess ffdshow simply sucks at resampling...but the manual says that you have to use a matching sampling freq, otherwise it WILL resample.

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i159037_sample.png

 why don't they allow automatic clock selection? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 why no bit-perfect MME/WDM drivers? it sounds like a half-arsed piece of software..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes KS works._

 

ok thanks, at least that's good news


----------



## jehugo

I just got this card and crammed it in a PCIe x16 graphics slot hoping it would work (old mobo)... and it did.

 It sounds really nice. Very pleased


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I confirm that the Xonar Essence STX breathes life into the 595s and makes them a much more enjoyable headphone. It was a clear improvement over stock X-Fi Xtreme Gamer & Headroom Airhead for me.

 @ shuttleboi

 1. Use Hi-Fi. Everything else degrades the quality of music.

 2. By default the sample rate you use is best as that of your music. If it is CD quality, that should be 44.1 khz. However, the difference is really hard to tell sound-wise with the sampling rates, imo.

 3. The 124db SNR is for the Line-Out of the card. The HP-Out is 117db SNR if I am correct.

 4. There should be, but I cannot help you as I know of none. Sorry._

 


 Thanks for your reply. I've found that the Hi-Fi setting in the software sounds a bit flat. I instead found that the "S. Rock" (soft rock?) setting, which increases the bass and treble relative to the middle, sounds quite good.

 What other settings are other Essence owers using?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shuttleboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply. I've found that the Hi-Fi setting in the software sounds a bit flat. I instead found that the "S. Rock" (soft rock?) setting, which increases the bass and treble relative to the middle, sounds quite good.

 What other settings are other Essence owers using?_

 

You are kidding, right?


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are kidding, right?_

 

You're right, I was kidding. I meant:

  Quote:


 What other settings are other Essence *owners* using? 
 

Thanks for catching that.


----------



## Telix

I wouldn't use any DSP features white listening to music, as that kind of ruins the point of using high end audio equipment in the first place, IMO.


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't use any DSP features white listening to music, as that kind of ruins the point of using high end audio equipment in the first place, IMO._

 

That setting I mentioned isn't a DSP setting, it's an equaliser setting. I always like to bring the bass and treble up a bit.


----------



## Shahrose

I just tried the LT1364 in the buffer with 2xJRC2114 (default) and so far I've been impressed. The soundstage is excellent depth-wise (almost like the LME49720) and the bass is very defined (like the OPA2107) but without the grating treble of the OPA2107. The treble is extended and very smooth/natural with no hint of graininess whatsoever. Their sound isn't as weighty as the LME49720 though (in the buffer). They have less mids and bass (ie. they're a bit bass light). However, their frequency response is very linear I feel, no midbass or upper midrange hump.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I just got in some LT opamps. Must give this one a try.


----------



## awesom-o

Just switched to 2x lme49720 in i/v, and an opa-moon in the buffer. I havent tried any other combos, but this one is realy good! More details and a much larger and transparent soundstage than stock. My speakers almost dissappeared, there is sound coming from everywhere. Also the placement of instruments is a lot better, i can hear exactly where every instrument is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For those of you who have tried the opa-moon, where do you connect the ground wire? (if at all)


----------



## Shahrose

The longer I used the LME49720 in the I/V, the more I couldn't stand their bass. Compared to the default opamps, they just lack definition and don't provide bass that's as tight or punchy. They're also slow opamps so PRAT takes a hit. Their soundstage is excellent and their frequency response is nice too, with a soft extended treble, giving them a very non-fatiguing quality. In the buffer spot though, they're my opamp of choice (so far).


----------



## ROBSCIX

So you like them or no? -Your post is a bit confusing.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you like them or no? -Your post is a bit confusing._

 

I don't want to say I like or don't like. I want to try to give as accurate a description of their sound as possible so others can decide. My own subjective preferences are always in a flux and one day I can like something and the next I'll be disappointed with it.

 The LME49720 in the buffer spot sound smooth, with prominent mids and have tight hard-hitting bass. The soundstage is also wide.

 In the I/V their bass is not as defined as stock, it's also less prominent, and less extended (slightly). They also produce a slow sound so certain harmonics have a longer decay. This gives a nice ambient/airy sound that results in a nice soundstage but this effect is also the culprit for their slow sound. The treble is excellent though, not harsh at all yet extended and grain-free.

 So far, if you were to ask me what I like most out of every combination I've tried so far. It would be the 1xLME49720 / 2xJRC2114. Overall these have the least number of flaws and I keep going back to them. A couple other combinations sound almost as good but just don't suit my preferences.


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got in some LT opamps. Must give this one a try._

 

Can you post a link (either to another posting or to an external site) on "opamp purchasing and Essence installing for dummies"? Thanks.


----------



## bxr

Is it possible to replace the xonar HDAT 1.3 deluxe opamps to excellent ones that will also give 4v/8v/10v/12v output on the RCA's (such as in car headunits)?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No. The outputs on the STX and the HDAV 1.3 are line level. You can connect them to a amplifier. If I am understanding what your asking.


----------



## bxr

That's not what I meant. I know they are line levels. The line level output maximum voltage is 2V. Isn't it the opamps that are responsible for the output gain of the line level?
 Take this headunit for example :
Clarion Malaysia | HX-D2
 You can see that the pre-amp line out is 4V instead of 2V. There are other with 8V and even 12V.

 Another example:
AlpineF#1Status | Products > PXI-H990

 Look at:
 Sound output level preout: 4V/10kΩ (maximum; front/rear); preout 4V/10kΩ (maximum; subwoofer/center
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





; AUX IN: 1.2V/10kΩ


----------



## ROBSCIX

..yes, but consumer line level gear is ~2V. The opamps are responsible for the output voltage but the supporting ciruitry sets the voltage level of the outputs.

 You can use the STX, without heavy modification just use a preamp stage between the card and power amps. That is what a Pre-amp is for. The card is a source...


----------



## Telix

I have been running 2x LME49720's for a few days and today swapped in 2x LM6172's (I use the headphone out). With the Denon's the LM6172's had too much uncontrolled bass. Even the LME49720's can feel a little flabby with certain bass-heavy music (I'd attribute that to the Denon's before blaming the opamp...) but the LM6172's were simply not a good match to my partially modded Denon's.

 I used my edu email to get 2x LM4562NA to test in the headphone output, just for kicks.

 Of course I also need to at least TRY the stock opamps, right?


----------



## twhtpclover

Another nice and lengthy review of Xonar Essence STX:
InsideHW - ASUS Xonar Essence STX

  Quote:


 After tens of hours spent in intensive listening of most demanding musical material we can, with great pleasure, say that ASUS Xonar Essence STX is our ultimate recommendation when it comes to Hi-Fi sound cards. This is sound card that will take every PC into Hi-End music segment and allow every true audiophile to enjoy its music collection in an unprecedented quality. We can only regret that there isn’t Editors Choice Plus Award which ASUS Xonar Essence STX would honorably deserve.


----------



## choC.

Quick question:

 If you plug in your HP's into the front panel of your PC, are you losing the benefits of the STX's amp?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *choC.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question:

 If you plug in your HP's into the front panel of your PC, are you losing the benefits of the STX's amp?_

 

Quick answer: yes


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the headphones connector on the front panel is from the line level outputs, IIRC. 

 One good thing is, if you don't need the amplifier, the line outs are actually higher quality then the HP amp chip.


----------



## zeroibis

I just wish that there were more HI-FI soundcards with EAX support.


----------



## Bojamijams

Why? EAX is dying. In a year, noone will know what it is.


----------



## Telix

Let's please move future conversation to here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/xo...thread-421890/

 This thread has run its course IMO.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wish that there were more HI-FI soundcards with EAX support._

 

Just more Hi-fi cards, keep making them better.


----------



## dex85

anybody knows what are the essence's jitter level times?or any review mentioning it? i'm asking just out of curiosity


----------



## ROBSCIX

Not that I have seen.
 To note, the Essence ST uses a different clocking circuit then the STX.
 This new clocking circuit provides improved timings with extremely low clocking jitter.


----------



## Bojamijams

Damn it!


----------



## ROBSCIX

What? 
 That is not to say the STX has a poor clocking circuit.


----------



## dex85

hmm, rob you did have chance to audition essence st. do you think that new clocking circuitry has any audible benefit over stx?


----------



## Schlosser

Hello!

 I am a newbie here. Currently I own an Asus Xonar DX and a brand new Sennheiser HD600 that I listen unamped. I listen my phones at approx.20% volume that is more than enough. Regarding the sound quality I am very disappointed. The bass is almost OK except the bass decay - very short. The mids sound thin and harsh. The highs (the cymbals) are the worst part - very prominent and sibilant. 
 I suspect the problem with the highs is the sound signature of HD600 and not only the lack of an amp. Before HD600 I owned HD595 - too recessed and rolled-off highs for my taste, and Beyerdynamic DT880 - IMO their highs are more prominent and annoying that HD600. Maybe HD650 are the best phones for me, but I have never tested them. If the highs of HD650 are as recessed and rolled-off as HD595 I will not regret that I did not buy them.

 Now I am planning to purchase an Asus Xonar Essence for my HD600. What improvement I should expect in the mids and especially in the highs in comparison with HD600 plugged directly in Xonar DX - i.e. unamped?


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## csoller

regards!

 I have just ordered an essence STX and I am going to use it with a Sennheiser 650

 I read many opinions about opamps but I am curious about your opinion before I order my opamps

 I like almost all kind of music but rap and for me the most important part in the music is deep natural bass so i want the most laidback type opamps
 Obviously I dont want to sacrifise too much from trebles and mids

 After reading many forums I think two LM6172s and one OPA2134 would be the best combo for me
 or two OPA2134 and one LM 6172 or something else?

 Please help me out and sorry for my bad english


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## genclaymore

The best I can say is try them til you find the combo/combos you like. Csoller.

 Right now I trying out 3xOPA2277's The Same Two in my I/V's and then the one which came today in my buffer.

 Some reason i liking this more then OPA627AU's in my buffer with it, I just gotta give it more time.

 Edit: to me the bass is improved with this combo for my self over using the Two OPA2277's with OPA627AU i still listening to these combos still.


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## ROBSCIX

Many just try different opamps that have been recommended until they find a setup they perosnally like or that goes good with their gear.


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## leeperry

so what about the LM4562? they seem to "work" all the time, when the 49720 seem to lack on some types of music ?!

 I will get my JRC5532 replaced by LM4562 early next week, I guess the headphones output that's got 3 of them will sing


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## ROBSCIX

The LM4562NA is used for the buffer position on the STX stock.

 LM4562's are a much better opamps for audio then a JRC5532....


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## leeperry

yep, but I see ppl using 49720 here..did they compare 2x LM4562 VS 2xLME49720?

 and anyone compared the headphones output against the 0404USB?

 also, there's no volume knob for the headphones output....so it's VERY lossy I guess? you have to change the volume either in foobar or in the STX drivers..

 and last question about the sample rate in the drivers : 



 from what I understand the volume/mixing/dsp controls still work even in ASIO mode? there's no "bitmatch" playback? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can you hear some glitch if you change the sample rate in the panel while playing ASIO music?

 hope someone can answer, thanks!


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## csoller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The best I can say is try them til you find the combo/combos you like. Csoller.

 Right now I trying out 3xOPA2277's The Same Two in my I/V's and then the one which came today in my buffer.

 Some reason i liking this more then OPA627AU's in my buffer with it, I just gotta give it more time.

 Edit: to me the bass is improved with this combo for my self over using the Two OPA2277's with OPA627AU i still listening to these combos still._

 

Probably you are right

 After reading thousands of posts I am not sure which combo would be the best for me so I will just listen to the default combo for a few weeks and then try out something else

 Which impedance setting should I use for sennheiser 650?


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## genclaymore

whoa, 3xOPA2277PA has like some kind of upfront sound like I'm in front row or there around me. 

 I been listening to couple of diffent music. But then this is in useage with Ultrasone HFi-780s thru a fiio E5.

 Now those LME49720s need to come so I can try out 2x OPA2277PA I/V with LME49720 in the buffer.

 Csoller I would guess the highest setting as it suppose to be for 600ohm headphones.


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## csoller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whoa, 3xOPA2277PA has like some kind of upfront sound like I'm in front row or there around me. 

 I been listening to couple of diffent music. But then this is in useage with Ultrasone HFi-780s thru a fiio E5.

 Now those LME49720s need to come so I can try out 2x OPA2277PA I/V with LME49720 in the buffer.

 Csoller I would guess the highest setting as it suppose to be for 600ohm headphones._

 

But the sennheiser 650 is a 300ohm headphone.

 If I plug my headphones directly in the card which opamps should I change?
 Only the two JRC2114s?


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## Shahrose

I've found that if one is using the headphone output on the STX, the LME49720's sound the best, and without the sloppy bass that I feel they can have in the line-outs.


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## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found that if one is using the headphone output on the STX, the LME49720's sound the best, and without the sloppy bass that I feel they can have in the line-outs._

 

better than 2*LM4562? these are supposed to be the start-all/end-all ?!


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## 12Bass

IMO, there is no universal perfect chip. The LM4562 is excellent on paper, and many enjoy it... but it is by no means best for all tastes.


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## Telix

Seriously why is this thread still going:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/xo...thread-421890/


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## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csoller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the sennheiser 650 is a 300ohm headphone.

 If I plug my headphones directly in the card which opamps should I change?
 Only the two JRC2114s?_

 

oh i must been thinking of a DT800 model woops. THen use whatever setting is for 300ohm,I dont really know which setting it is since I have the HDAV and not a STX.

 you still have to do some testing, as I could tell you and they might not sound that good to you. only thing you can do is get some samples(free op-amps) and play around with the combos your self.

 Edit:Telix some people gonna post here reguadless of a new thread. It just gonna take time for people to jump on over to that thread.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csoller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the sennheiser 650 is a 300ohm headphone.

 If I plug my headphones directly in the card which opamps should I change?
 Only the two JRC2114s?_

 

Yes, for the headphone output you change the JRC2114D's.

 Stock, When in headphone mode the circuit is configured like so:

 JRC2114D \
 ========TPA6120A2 (Head amp chip) -> TRS out
 JRC2114D /

 When the card is set for Line-out the relays change the configuration to:

 JRC2114D \
 ========LM4562NA (line buffer) -> RCA outs
 JRC2114D /

 The JRC's are I/V and feed the next stage, with the head amp, or the single end buffer(LM4562)
 If your not using the line outs there is no reason to change the LM4562NA.
 Hope this helps.


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## csoller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, for the headphone output you change the JRC2114D's.

 Stock, When in headphone mode the circuit is configured like so:

 JRC2114D \
 ========TPA6120A2 (Head amp chip) -> TRS out
 JRC2114D /

 When the card is set for Line-out the relays change the configuration to:

 JRC2114D \
 ========LM4562NA (line buffer) -> RCA outs
 JRC2114D /

 The JRC's are I/V and feed the next stage, with the head amp, or the single end buffer(LM4562)
 If your not using the line outs there is no reason to change the LM4562NA.
 Hope this helps._

 

Thank you this was really helpful!

 Do you know which impedance setting should I choose for my 300ohm sennheiser 650?

 The one thats recommended for 64-300ohm headphones or the one thats recommended for 300-600ohm headphones?

 Probably I will try level 2 first.


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## ROBSCIX

I suggest the High Gain Setting (64-300ohm). -That is the second level as you said.
 You can try both and see which give you the control you want for the volume.
 Enjoy.


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## leeperry

I was sorta hoping someone would be kind enough to answer my questions above...but anyway, I've just ordered it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 there's an engineer from national giving insights here : diyAudio Forums - National opamp inflation - Page 2


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## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, there is no universal perfect chip. The LM4562 is excellent on paper, and many enjoy it... but it is by no means best for all tastes._

 

diyAudio Forums - National opamp inflation - Page 3
  Quote:


 the 49720 and 4562 are identical parts 
 

the guy was an engineer at National, I guess he knows


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## 12Bass

Yeah, I've read that too..... however my sample of LME49720 does seem to sound slightly different than the LM4562s I've compared it with.... subtly clearer. Weird!


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## leeperry

yeah, I'm gonna end up ordering both 4562 and 49720


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## leeperry

I've read quite a lot of op-amps reviews and everyone says that the 5532 is "warm"(like tube amps) and a bit too saturated...w/ a not so clear soundstage.

 I have to agree, it's got a "dirty" sound, I dunno how clean I want my sound tbh...some ppl call the 4562 "clinical" and emotionless.

 oh well the stock 2114D are actually slightly improved 5532 I believe..what's a good other op-amp to try? OPA-sumthing or that THS- one from TI? ideally if they could be ordered on ebay, that'd make my life a lot easier


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## 12Bass

OPA211 and OPA827 sound a bit better to me than LME49720/LM4562.... better reproduction of the midrange, and more organic, for lack of a better description. Somewhat expensive and requires a single to dual SOIC adapter, though... like this one: Single-to-dual Op-Amp Adapter (p/n 020302)


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## leeperry

alright, I'll see what I can find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the first review says the headphones impedance is reset when you reboot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Customer Reviews Of ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone AMP Card - Retail

  Quote:


 I have to change headphone impedience to 300 ohms every time i boot up computer. I dont know why it doesnt save this setting 
 

and this guy says that the sample rate selection in the drivers screws around w/ playback in foobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Share your problems here.

  Quote:


 Playing 96Khz files in Foobar is fine, but when the next track is 44.1Khz, it is played at double speed. Hit stop and play again and the file plays normally. Minor bug but as I have a number of SACD/DVD-Audio tracks ripped to my music folder this means I can't play using shuffle and leave it to playback w/o problems. 
 

if all of this is true, it's gonna go to the FS section faster that I would have thought...I was sorta hoping ASIO in foobar would override the sample rate that you have to set in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* I've emailed the Asus techsupport..


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## Bojamijams

Let me know what you find leeperry. 

 I too noted in this thread that the tempo seems to change of the song but when you stop it and play it again it goes at normal speed. However I don't have any 96khz files, but I did have the sample rate in the Xonar Audio Center set at 96khz. 

 Someone though this might be ASIO and since I've changed to WASAPI and KS I haven't noticed the problem since, though they seem to be more annoying to work with then ASIO.


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## leeperry

ok cool!

 can you run 2 simple tests please :

 1)-open a 16/44.1 then a 24/96 files in a row in foobar, in both ASIO/KS....on XP possibly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've put a 24/96 audio test pattern here : RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

 2)-when you reboot, the headphones impedance is reset or does it stay as how you set it?

 maybe that's because KS is resampled by their damn Sample Rate Conversion.....that's what you get for buying soundcards made by motherboards manufacturers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* the manual is not very clear...apparently anything <96KHz goes through their bullsh*t DSP/SRC blabla :






 if all this fails, I'll toss it and get the Auzen Forte...at least it's got an "auto" sample rate in the drivers


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## Bojamijams

1) I've exceeded my 5gb limit with Rapidshare for today so I'll have to wait until 6pm est when their server changes to new day to download and do that test.. I have no access to XP though, only vista 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 2) My impedence stays how I set it, however its set to the lowest level. Do you mean yours is set to level 2 or 3 and after reboot resets to level 1 (0 < 64) ?


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## leeperry

well I plan on using it in 600 Ohms, does it stick if you reboot? but you're on Vista I think.

 OK look here : surround_test-24-96000.wv - Uploaded through Badongo - BADONGO

 please test in ASIO & KS if any possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ideally I'd like to get 100% bit-perfect ASIO for 16/44.1 & 24/96 in foobar, and bitperfect KS in Reclock....it looks like rocket science on that Asus motherboard audio chip....oops I meant soundcard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe it's good that this Asus card sucks, the Auzen Forte 7.1 might be a better choice...AKM4396 + switchable op-amps, plus it's got an "auto" sample rate mode


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## Bojamijams

Hmm I can't seem to duplicate the problem. I've tried 44khz and 48khz after that 96khz but not having that issue now. Will keep it on ASIO for now to see if it'll be duplicated later.

 With KS I also didn't have any issues.

 However whether I set the sample rate to 44khz or 48khz, it still played the 96khz fine so I think there is still auto switching on the sample rate. 

 The auzen forte still doesn't have this high a SnR or this low a THD+N so its not as much an 'audiophile' product as the STX. I'm happy with my STX.


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## leeperry

yeah, and the headphone op-amp is a lousy JRC4580 on the Auzen Forte 7.1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so what if you play a 16/44.1 file through DirectSound, or open a youtube webpage then try to play a 24/96 file in foobar w/ASIO and KS? ASIO should give you an error msg like "sample rate not supported"? KS too ?

 and does the impedance stick if you set it to 600Ohms and reboot?

 thanks for your help!


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## Bojamijams

as I said in the PM, all worked fine for me. Might be a driver issue that a good uninstall + Drive Sweeper + new reinstrall might fix? 

 Then again.. it might be that the problem exists only in XP as it seems thats what you're running.

 I'll check the impedence thing for you later. Gotta wait for a download to finish before restart


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## leeperry

ok thanks!

 so if you set the drivers sample rate to 44.1KHz, play a video in youtube...and then play a 24/96 file in ASIO or KS on top of it, it'll work w/o an error msg from foobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 both ASIO and KS? so the damn thing even resamples ASIO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe ASIO4ALL would save the day? I will have several tests to run before putting it in the FS section I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or use xmplay and check "try to force hardware sample rate"..


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## hadouken

First of all, thanks to everyone in this thread for posting information/opinion/advice on this wonderful card, you helped me make the purchase and upgrade the OPAMPs to better suit my taste, it's amazing how accurate someones purchases can be when there are great forums like this to soak up info from. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially big thanks to *Funky-kun* for your review on OPAMPs, from your post I purchased the LME49720NA and LM6172IN from digi-key (took 3 days to arrive from USA, very impressive). After listening to both (and the stock) I will quickly post my opinions. The card itself first though:

*Xonar Essence STX*: Coming from an Auzentech Prelude 7.1, which was a huge upgrade from what I had previously, I wasn't expecting the difference to be big, but boy, was I wrong. Everything sounds so much clearer, sounds have more definition and clarity across the range. There's a lot more bass too, it was a bit boomy with stock OPAMPs but more on that in a sec. Soundstage is also improved, I am now able to pick out instruments easier. Music has a lot more energy now which is great for trance and EDM. The builtin headphone amplifier makes a world of difference, I had to have the volume up to 50-60% to get decent volume with my Prelude, now its at around 5-10%.

 The ASUS software and drivers are a lot more cleaner and lightweight than Creative/Auzentech's. Dolby Headphone/ProLogic IIx are great alternatives to CMSS3D and Creatives offerings. Movies and TV episodes sound great, the control panel is faster and more responsive when changing modes etc. Gaming is probably a little lacking because of the absence of EAX5.0 but GX seems just fine, I only really play L4D at the mo and that sounds great with GX enabled.

*LME49720*: Wider soundstage, high/mid freqs are tame, bass hasn't very much attack. This is bad for me as I like things to be close-by with lots of energy, detail and agression.

*LM6172*: Smaller soundstage, maybe a little wider than the stock opamps. High/mid freqs were a little shrill sounding at first, that seems to have lessened with time. Bass seems defined (I can hear texture and detail within those freqs) with a tiny bit of boom (great for trance etc). Plenty of energy and detail... these are keepers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once again, thanks to everyone here, you probably don't know how much you help people like me who stay mostly in the shadows but listen intently to what you say. I *love* this card, it's breathed new life into my music which I wouldn't have thought possible because I loved my Prelude so much. If anyone has any advice on OPAMPs etc then I'm always listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now it's time to seek out better headphones...


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## Funky-kun

I'm glad to hear my comments helped! This card sure makes music much more enjoyable.


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## Aquanote

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hadouken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Now it's time to seek out better headphones... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 so you have the HD650 and now want to buy better headphones because you think that the senns cant hold up with the greatness of the essence?

 wow I mean which headphones are you looking at? just curious


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aquanote* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so you have the HD650 and now want to buy better headphones because you think that the senns cant hold up with the greatness of the essence?

 wow I mean which headphones are you looking at? just curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*Cough HD800 Cough*


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aquanote* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so you have the HD650 and now want to buy better headphones because you think that the senns cant hold up with the greatness of the essence?

 wow I mean which headphones are you looking at? just curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I assure you the HD650s scale quite a bit higher than what the Essence provides.


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## Bojamijams

You'd be making a mistake to sell the HD650. The Essence is a great sound card and most notably a great DAC, but its headphone amplifier section leaves a lot to be desired, since its mostly just a single IC thats doing it. 

 Get a good desktop amplifier to connect out of the essences Line Outs and I bet you the HD650 will shine a lot more.


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## leeperry

hah! so now the headphones out on the STX sucks? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and anyway, it seems that ASIO is resampled...but not KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should be getting the LME49720/4562 later this week, so I'll directly try the STX w/ the 49720 first.

 I was considering ordering more op-amps like the AD823, but apparenttly you can't really beat the 49720 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the warm sound of the 5532 on my current soundcard, I'm kinda worried the 4562 would sound too clinical/boring....but I guess I could fire up OzoneMP very slightly if that's really the case, this thing is dynamite


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## 12Bass

IMO, the AD823 is not in the same league sonically... sort of bright/harsh, yet missing finer detail.


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## hadouken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aquanote* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so you have the HD650 and now want to buy better headphones because *you think that the senns cant hold up with the greatness of the essence?*

 wow I mean which headphones are you looking at? just curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's not what I think at all, you've made a pretty big assumption there. I think they're great headphones and I see why other people like them but they just don't suit my style and what I'm looking for. Not every audiophile has to like the HD650's you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* 
_Get a good desktop amplifier to connect out of the essences Line Outs and I bet you the HD650 will shine a lot more._

 

I've considered this approach before, at one point I was going to buy a Little Dot MKV amp, Keces DA-151/131 DAC and Zu Mobius cable (i think) but then I came to my senses and thought "Why spend good money trying to turn the HD650's into something they're not?". Instead, I bought the Proline 2500 headphones and haven't regretted it for a second, they fit my needs perfectly.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scytheavatar* 
_*Cough HD800 Cough*_

 

If only... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been browsing these forums for a couple of days now and I have my eye on the Sony SA5000, Beyerdynamic DT880 (2005) and Denon AH-D5000. I'm still trying to figure out whether these will be a decent improvement on my Prolines though. I've also heard that the DT880's require a very competant amp to power them correctly so I'm hoping one of you could answer that, would the STX be up to the task? 

 I notice you have a pair of DT880's with this card *Aquanote*, what are your thoughts?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, the AD823 is not in the same league sonically... sort of bright/harsh, yet missing finer detail._

 

so what do you advise...the top of the line THS___? and what diff did you hear between 4562/49720?

 do you own the STX?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hadouken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my eye on the Sony SA5000, Beyerdynamic DT880 (2005) and Denon AH-D5000._

 

all I can say is that the beyer are mind blowing in 600Ω 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the higher the impedance, the faster/more transparent they get because the coil is lighter and more responsive!


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## GWorlDofSPACE

In the begining of this topic a guy did some experiments whit the PSU! I think the xonar essence has a really good DAC. But the PC PSU, I have a corsair one is ****. I searched the internet and found some linear regulated stuff but if the cards price is 199$ and then you buy a PSU for 100-300$ that is insane. Do you guys have any suggestions about PSU?


----------



## 12Bass

Nope. No STX. More of an op amp junkie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THS4032 might be worth a try for I/V. My experience with AD823 was in a few other applications. My memory of its tonality is not favorable. The differences I heard between LME49720/LM4562 were subtle... a little more clarity in the LME, with similar general tonality.


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## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. No STX. More of an op amp junkie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THS4032 might be worth a try for I/V. My experience with AD823 was in a few other applications. My memory of its tonality is not favorable. The differences I heard between LME49720/LM4562 were subtle... a little more clarity in the LME, with similar general tonality._

 

what do you think of the NJM5532? too warm/distorted? gives sort of a "tube" sound?

 the stock 2114D on the STX are mostly improved 5532 I think..

 I recently read an external DAC manufacturer saying that op-amps changed the sound color more than DAC's...after he ran many tests w/ customers.

 also, everyone raves about the burson discrete op-amps....but several say that he gets them from a chinese website for really cheap and makes crazy markups on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see TI gives samples away too, I'll try to secure some THS4032 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oops: the THS4032 doesn't come in DIP8


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## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the begining of this topic a guy did some experiments whit the PSU! I think the xonar essence has a really good DAC. But the PC PSU, I have a corsair one is ****. I searched the internet and found some linear regulated stuff but if the cards price is 199$ and then you buy a PSU for 100-300$ that is insane. Do you guys have any suggestions about PSU?_

 

corsair sells one the best pc PSUs, although they not produce them theirselves. unless if you're feeling like spending money and getting no improvements, i wouldn't bother with getting new psu. especially if you have one made by Seasonic (HX520, VX450, i'm not sure about HX620 manufacturer - its either Seasonic or Channel Well, it's great psu regardless)


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_corsair sells one the best pc PSUs, although they not produce them theirselves. unless if you're feeling like spending money and getting no improvements, i wouldn't bother with getting new psu. especially if you have one made by Seasonic (HX520, VX450, i'm not sure about HX620 manufacturer - its either Seasonic or Channel Well, it's great psu regardless)_

 

I have a corsair TX650 PSU! Do you think its good?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a corsair TX650 PSU! Do you think its good?_

 

the most nitpicking PSU test I've ever seen was on this french site : CanardPC.com - Hardware > Alimentation > Alimentations ATX 2009 > Corsair HX620W

 maybe you can translate it...anyway, they say that the HX620 should have bigger output caps and that the +5V should have a higher efficiency when under light load...but apart from these details, they say it's good stuff!

 OTOH, some other PSU's in this test fail bigtime...the Seasonic S12-II doesn't even meet the ATX 2.3 specs for power micro-cuts, the input caps are not beefy enough.

 I personally have a BeQuiet 500W, very happy w/ it! another serious site tested it and said that the efficiency was lacking a bit, but that it was dead silent and some of the most stable voltages they had ever seen(hardly any ripple at all)....plus it's got 3 years on-site warranty, they ship you a replacement unit right away by express courier. silence and voltage stability are my highest expectations from a PSU.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a corsair TX650 PSU! Do you think its good?_

 

yeah, its definitely good psu, slight concern might be somewhat high ripple on 12v under full load but i seriously doubt you will ever need more than half of its output power. depends on you pc rig.

 btw, seasonic failing some test? most probably a faulty piece. reviewers praise seasonic, one the best pc psu manufucterers out there.

Corsair TX650W ATX12V power supply | silentpcreview.com


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## Aquanote

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hadouken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice you have a pair of DT880's with this card *Aquanote*, what are your thoughts?_

 

What I like about the 880´s is that they´re so comfy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and second what I enjoy about the the sonic qualities is the incredible soundstage. I creates such a defined space in my ear where all the sounds, intruments and voices can be heard without "interfering" with each other. Here are some adjectives: fast, clear, sparkling, analytical, voluminous. 

 I love them for electronic music. I dont like them so much with very loaded rock music where they add beackground noise and such. It gets screamy easily. For that I rather use the rx700 which is more direct. In every other department its inferior, though.

 hope I didn´t offend anyone with my opinion. I give you the usual grain of salt with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im a noob and might be wrong anyway.


----------



## 12Bass

Another point of note: many of the modern high performance op amps are limited to singles, SOIC, or both (e.g. AD797, OPA827, OPA211, OPA2365, THS4032). That necessitates SOIC -> DIP adapters.


----------



## ROBSCIX

True, there are many newer opamps, thta only come in SOIC, or single channel or both.


----------



## riderforever

Does somebody have tried the Essence with Windows7RC1? I do and it seems to me it's an improvement over Vista: the sound gets more transparent with tighter bass.

 The side effect is that the Asus Audio Center does not work anymore, and the Windows Audio Mixer does not open. To change the master volume I have to use the knob integrated into my Logitech keyboard or to go into Sound Devices -> Playback Devices -> Levels... not very comfortable to say the least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just to mention: there are also troubles with the wasapi plugin of foobar, it's not very reliable so I'm stuck with DS.


----------



## leeperry

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5609459-post1322.html

 so KS is not resampled by the stupid drivers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Boj, I got a set of extension wires, you can get them from Audio-GD or Burson and they allow you to do testing with opamps without removing your card. When you find the set of opamps you really like then pull the card and add the opamps._

 

I thought the distance between the PCB and the op-amp was vital?
 apparently putting DIP8 adapters on SOIC8 connectors is a no-no because of this...the distance would be much longer and would ruin the THD ?!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5609459-post1322.html

 so KS is not resampled by the stupid drivers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I thought the distance between the PCB and the op-amp was vital?
 apparently putting DIP8 adapters on SOIC8 connectors is a no-no because of this...the distance would be much longer and would ruin the THD ?!_

 

I have heard varying opinions on that subject.
 As for "putting DIP8 adapters on SOIC8 connectors" not really sure what that means. If you intend on doing any experiementing with discrete units, these wires are a necessary evil.


----------



## leeperry

well I meant putting DIP8 holders on PCB's that had SOIC8 op-amps in the first place.

 I read several times and was confirmed that the metal 49720 sound better than the DIP8, mostly coz the case kills any possible EMI...but I was kinda dubious because the leads would be too long then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I'm quite amazed that noone cares that the stupid drivers resample every <96KHz stream...especially through ASIO, which should be bit-perfect.

 ah well, apparently KS doesn't get ruined by either KMixer or the Asus drivers? mostly I wanna be able to make playlists w/ 16/44.1 & 24/96 and hear them at the right pitch w/o clicking STOP....and w/o any sloppy resampling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe all of this occurs if you don't disable the DSP modes....I should get my card early next week.


----------



## Bluelizard0

Has anybody found that their software almost doesn't work? I have a pair of headphones plugged in, and the headphones setting selected. However when I first got the card upon selecting the "Dolby Headphone" feature, the sound of course would erm, sound completely different. Now it doesn't seem to do anything. It's really quite odd.


----------



## Reader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok thanks!

 so if you set the drivers sample rate to 44.1KHz, play a video in youtube...and then play a 24/96 file in ASIO or KS on top of it, it'll work w/o an error msg from foobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 both ASIO and KS? so the damn thing even resamples ASIO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe ASIO4ALL would save the day? I will have several tests to run before putting it in the FS section I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or use xmplay and check "try to force hardware sample rate".._

 

Please do some reading on ASIO first, it never meant to bypass sound card, it bypass some windows junk to send bit-perfect data to sound card, and once it's there, ASIO has done it's job, what sound card does with the data has nothing to do with ASIO.


----------



## Reader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I meant putting DIP8 holders on PCB's that had SOIC8 op-amps in the first place.

 I read several times and was confirmed that the metal 49720 sound better than the DIP8, mostly coz the case kills any possible EMI...but I was kinda dubious because the leads would be too long then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I'm quite amazed that noone cares that the stupid drivers resample every <96KHz stream...especially through ASIO, which should be bit-perfect.

 ah well, apparently KS doesn't get ruined by either KMixer or the Asus drivers? mostly I wanna be able to make playlists w/ 16/44.1 & 24/96 and hear them at the right pitch w/o clicking STOP....and w/o any sloppy resampling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe all of this occurs if you don't disable the DSP modes....I should get my card early next week._

 

Well again, ASIO is bit perfect to sound card, then sound card does whatever it wants with the data, nothing to do with ASIO.

 From what I understand, if you select 44.1 Khz in the driver software, your 44.1khz file will not be oversampled. ASIO or KS.

 If you selected 192Khz, then all your 44.1Khz, 48khz or 96Khz will be oversampled, ASIO or KS.

 Basically it will resample to the sample rate you selected.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what sound card does with the data has nothing to do with ASIO._

 

well, it doesn't make any sense to resample ASIO...we use ASIO for 1:1 bitperfect, not for sloppy resampling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so even in WASAPI exclusive in Vista, the darn thing will resample ?

 most soundcards have an "auto" samplerate option, so the card never resamples(my M-Audio does not resample in ASIO by design)....also some soundcards(Claro HT for instance) offer bitperfect for analog, and a samplerate selection for s/pdif

 resampling doesn't make sense, especially on an audiophile yadayada $200 card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I understand, if you select 44.1 Khz in the driver software, your 44.1khz file will not be oversampled. ASIO or KS.

 If you selected 192Khz, then all your 44.1Khz, 48khz or 96Khz will be oversampled, ASIO or KS.

 Basically it will resample to the sample rate you selected._

 

yeah, so you have to spend your life changing the sample rate in the drivers? that's great!

 44.1 for CDDA, 48 for DVD, 96 for DVD-A...now that's convenient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the manual says that 96/192 won't be resampled, and some ppl say that if you play a 16/44.1 then 24/96 in a row in ASIO/foobar, the 24/96 will play twice too fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but not in KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sloppy drivers at work


----------



## Reader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, it doesn't make any sense to resample ASIO...we use ASIO for 1:1 bitperfect, not for sloppy resampling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so even in WASAPI exclusive in Vista, the darn thing will resample ?

 most soundcards have an "auto" samplerate option, so the card never resamples(my M-Audio does not resample in ASIO by design)....also some soundcards(Claro HT for instance) offer bitperfect for analog, and a samplerate selection for s/pdif

 resampling doesn't make sense, especially on an audiophile yadayada $200 card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yeah, so you have to spend your life changing the sample rate in the drivers? that's great!

 44.1 for CDDA, 48 for DVD, 96 for DVD-A...now that's convenient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the manual says that 96/192 won't be resampled, and some ppl say that if you play a 16/44.1 then 24/96 in a row in ASIO/foobar, the 24/96 will play twice too fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but not in KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sloppy drivers at work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree that it should have an auto sample selector, but I have a question, what does your M-Audio do if you play two different sample sound at same time?


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, it doesn't make any sense to resample ASIO...we use asio for 1:1 bitperfect, not for sloppy resampling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just curious, in what way is it sloppy? Or is that just you way of expressing your discontent?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree that it should have an auto sample selector, but I have a question, what does your M-Audio do if you play two different sample sound at same time?_

 

well send an email to Asus and complain, ask them to forward your request to their drivers engineers(like I did) : ASUS Online Service

 if everyone complains, maybe we'll finally get automatic samplerate selection....like every audiophile soundcard on earth.

 we're not gamers, we care for bit-perfect actually....maybe Asus doesn't know that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 simple, if I play a youtube video in Firefox then fire up a 24/96 FLAC in foobar/ASIO....I get an error msg that says "ASIO error : can't set sample rate"

 their soundcard should behave the same way, switch on the fly! or fail...if you want resampling, use DS. that's not what ASIO/KS are here for.

 do you own the card? can you play a 16/44.1 then 24/96 in a row in foobar/ASIO? does the 24/96 play too fast? but not in KS?

 anyway, there's still a few options I hope might circumvent their stupid drivers :
 -check "try to force hardware samplerate" in the ASIO config of xmplay
 -check "do not map through this device" in the device manager
 -try ASIO4ALL
 -last option, going drastic and check "don't use audio functionalities on this device", then it will be invisible to windows...only KS/ASIO will work

 but somehow, I guess none of these will work


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious, in what way is it sloppy? Or is that just you way of expressing your discontent? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

resampling should be avoided whenever possible, it will only ruin the SQ...you can't create data that's not there, you can only create additional distortion.

 and I highly doubt that their SRC is as good as the r8brain Pro algorithm


----------



## ROBSCIX

@leeperry, do you own this card yet?


----------



## leeperry

nope, should get it early next week! reason why I'm b*tching...maybe I could get bitperfect drivers before I have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 any serious soundcard plays bit-perfect, and has an option to leave the samplerate "unlocked" :





 every soundcard on earth does that(M-Audio/Claro/Auzentech/Echo/you name it), even the X-Fi have "bitmatched playback"...but Asus forces us to use a fixed samplerate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 samplerate conversion should be avoided when it's not necessary..resampling ASIO/KS is pure nonsense


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_resampling should be avoided whenever possible, it will only ruin the SQ...you can't create data that's not there, you can only create additional distortion.

 and I highly doubt that their SRC is as good as the r8brain Pro algorithm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, this is what the manual says:

 "Even if your setting differs from the audio source’s sample rate, the Xonar Essence STX engine will do super high fidelity sample-rate-conversion with a double floating-point filter, which can reduce total harmonic distortion (THD+N) by -140dB."


----------



## leeperry

yeah that's commercial yadayada...there's no good reason to resample if you don't have to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the manual also says that 96/192KHz are not resampled :
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i160484_wtf.png

 why only 96/192? why not an "auto" mode?

 maybe that's why playing a 16/44.1 then a 24/96 in a row via foobar/ASIO will play the second file twice too fast? it should set the right samplerate for each file 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 using ASIO/KS to bypass KMixer doesn't make any sense when the audio drivers resample anyway...that's the EXACT same thing.

 I understand this card sounds awesome as it is(when it doesn't play 24/96 audio twice too fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), but it'd be even more impressive w/o any resampling...we deserve bitperfect, we're not counterstrike gamers.

 if you believe you deserve bit-perfect audio, drop them an email like I did and ask them to forward it to the drivers engineers. Asus wanna play big, well the software has to follow


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have played many different file type through that card and I never heard anything play too fast or to slow. I would consider that unless you have experienced said issues yourself your really going by something another says, right or wrong.


----------



## leeperry

well if you use DS that's normal that it did not happen...apparently it only happens w/ ASIO, and not KS?! that's dubious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the card resamples, that's for sure...whether it plays too fast or not is another problem.

 if you set the samplerate to 44.1Hz, open a youtube video and then play a 24/96 FLAC in foobar/ASIO, it wil downsample the 96KHz to 44.1..do you find this normal? acceptable? and if you play a DVD it will butcher the sound from 48 to 44.1KHz..and believe me that's a very lossy conversion!

 every serious soundcard should leave ASIO/KS 100% bit-perfect...there's already KMixer for ppl who like downsampled music.

 when you use DS, you suffer from double samplerate conversion at this point(once from KMixer, once for the Asus drivers)...godverdomme that is not serious audiophile behavior, even Creative offers a "bitmatch playback" mode.

 you seem to be in contact w/ Asus, maybe you could ask them for an "auto" samplerate option? like any soundcard on earth


----------



## ROBSCIX

Have you done any of these tests, or again are you going on what another says?

 If you don't like how the card operates maybe you should look to something else that will give you what you want.


----------



## Reader

Sound playing too fast happened to me many times, not in foobar though, and every time it was a software issue. After all, playback software send data to sound card, the speed is decided by the software not the card.


----------



## d(((--)))b

I have some audio files that asio/foobar/xonar stx refuse to play. But I think this problem happens because of incorrectly recorded files.. because asio/foobar complains about the channels not set correctly.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't like how the card operates maybe you should look to something else that will give you what you want._

 

hehe I'm sorry, I thought we were on an audiophile forum...must have been mistaking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if you don't see the point to avoid resampling when not needed, maybe it's time you document yourself.

 anyway, case closed. I understand Joe Sixpack doesn't care that his audio is being resampled, he even plays music through WMP in DS at that(so he gets double useless SRC on this card, too awesome!)

 hopefully, the drivers engineers will add an "auto" samplerate, and allow 100% bitperfect audio..which is what the hardware deserves.

 resampling ASIO/KS is not acceptable, not in a million years.


----------



## csoller

Can you tell me if it is safe to plug my 16ohm sennheiser IE8 in this card?

 Because manual says it is optimized for 32~600Ω

 Thanks!


----------



## d(((--)))b

it has a setting from 0-64 ohms... if i m not wrong... so it should be safe


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it has a setting from 0-64 ohms... if i m not wrong... so it should be safe_

 

Technically, it says <64 ohms.

 I pretty much only play 44.1 kHz source files (with any quality I care about) so resampling is really a non-issue for me. That said, I couldn't hurt with an 'auto-setting' option.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehe I'm sorry, I thought we were on an audiophile forum...must have been mistaking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you don't see the point to avoid resampling when not needed, maybe it's time you document yourself.

 anyway, case closed. I understand Joe Sixpack doesn't care that his audio is being resampled, he even plays music through WMP in DS at that(so he gets double useless SRC on this card, too awesome!)

 hopefully, the drivers engineers will add an "auto" samplerate, and allow 100% bitperfect audio..which is what the hardware deserves.

 resampling ASIO/KS is not acceptable, not in a million years._

 

Please don't put words in my mouth and don't misunderstand what I am saying. You don't own the card yet, you have been complaining about various aspects for awhile, What I mean is, if this card isn't what your looking for then why don't you look for something else that fits your needs a bit better?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That being said, a auto sample rate selection or check box would be a great thing. However, Changing the sample rate when need be isn't such a big deal IMO. YMMV...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csoller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell me if it is safe to plug my 16ohm sennheiser IE8 in this card?

 Because manual says it is optimized for 32~600Ω

 Thanks!_

 

Use the first Gain setting in the headphone subpanel.


----------



## lordvader

Sorry if this has been covered, but I've been unable to find much info on the recording capabilities of these cards.

 I'm building a new PC, and want to start doing 24/96 recordings of my vinyl collection. How does this card do in that regard (compared to cards like the m-audio 2496, or emu 0404) ?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please don't put words in my mouth and don't misunderstand what I am saying. [...] a auto sample rate selection or check box would be a great thing. However, Changing the sample rate when need be isn't such a big deal IMO._

 

several friends of mine own the card, they ran many tests for me.
 you get prototype cards from Asus, maybe you can ask them for an "auto" samplerate? I play CDDA/DVD/DVD-A on a regular basis, changing the samplerate manually is NOT acceptable(like resampling ASIO isn't either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## KDE

I have made STX recently working under Linux on my PC. It wasn't possible without problems as it isn't supported by Linux 2.6.29. I had to use alsa-driver snapshot, which didn't work without hacking because of undefined symbols. 
 Bit-perfect output is supported between 32kHz and 192kHz, when dmix is disabled.
 It seems that driver doesn't have amplification settings yet. With 50 Ohm / 3500 mW headphones, it isn't needed. Most files play very loud at 70%(-18dB) volume (louder than on Xtreme Audio) with following equalizer settings 0:-1.5:-3:-4.5:-4.5:-4.5:-4.5:-4.5:-4.5:-1.5 dB


----------



## ROBSCIX

The amplification is actually done by the headphones amp chip itself, so the driver would need that software switch to select the different gain ranges. Atleast that is how I understand it.

 That is great you got it working in Linux...


----------



## FSonicSmith

Quote:


 several friends of mine own the card, they ran many tests for me.
 you get prototype cards from Asus, maybe you can ask them for an "auto" samplerate? I play CDDA/DVD/DVD-A on a regular basis, changing the samplerate manually is NOT acceptable(like resampling ASIO isn't either ) 
 __________________ 
 

I participate in several boards on several different hobbies/subjects/interests and you must be the most persistent, contentious, and pointless poster I have ever encountered. Just what is your point other than the minor one you made 20 posts ago? 

 I am listening to WIUX out of Bloomington, IN, the college station of IU as I type, which streams 256kbps audio, and I'm listening through the Xonar Essence STX on a new computer that I had specifically configured and custom built with this sound card in mind (robust power supply, card directly routed to PSU) and the sound coming out of my Denon D2000s is beautiful, as good as I could have wished for. I have a high end audiophile system at home, and I would rate the sound I am getting through my computer as equal to the sound I get through my home rig and full sized headphone amp. In fact, I would say that in terms of sheer enjoyment-the hedonism that can not be attributed to any particular sound quality, the level of joy is higher with this sound card than my CDP to headphone amp rig. Argue about theory and bits and bit-perfect all you want til your face is as blue as your avatar, but sometimes things boil down to implementation and synergy and not what appears on paper. Take a deep breath and let some blood reach your brain and senses.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have made STX recently working under Linux. [...]
 Bit-perfect output is supported between 32kHz and 192kHz, when dmix is disabled._

 

yeah, the problem is the lousy windows XP/Vista drivers.

 apparently they don't work on Windows 7, so you do get bit-perfect audio....maybe it'd be a good opportunity for me to switch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and BTW, I ran a simple test again yesterday :
 -open a youtube link and let it play
 -open a 24/96 FLAC w/ ASIO4ALL in foobar simultaneously, and that's the error msg I got "Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (96000Hz); please configure resampler appropriately"

 if I close youtube, then it works fine!

 and you can see that ASIO4ALL knows that the soundcard supports from 44.1 to 96KHz...it's just that the M-Audio drivers will NEVER resample under any circumstance(like any serious soundcard) :






 but apparently -as I already said- the average Joe doesn't care that his audio is being resampled...and that's the customer target of this soundcard after all


----------



## twhtpclover

what about give it a try first, and they'll release the update next month? 
 if the difference is too big to accept, you can always sell it at a good price.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what about give it a try first, and they'll release the update next month? 
 if the difference is too big to accept, you can always sell it at a good price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

well I'm sure the SQ must kick butt, but it'd be even better if it had an "auto" samplerate option in the drivers...and forbid SRC.

 I see all the Asus soundcard suffer from this same issue, it's not one guy alone(me) who's gonna make Asus provide audiophile-grade drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but anyway, most ppl here don't care...I shall look for more quality conscious ppl on other forums I suppose. the more ppl send them an email to complain, the more they'll be willing to provide bit-perfect drivers. resampling ASIO/KS is a complete nonsense, but a few years back these ppl were only building motherboards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, you don't need a valid serial# to send them an email, so if you want bit-perfect audio under XP/Vista feel free to b*tch to their techsupport...and ask them to forward your request to the drivers engineers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://vip.asus.com/eservice/techserv.aspx


----------



## ROBSCIX

Who said nobody cares? Just nobody seems to think it is a big deal to change the sample rate if they need to.
 You seem to keep ignoreing that point. We can change the sample rate and no resampling occurs.

 As for your bit about no "serious" soundcard allows resampling, I own many,many soundcards and audio interfaces and many of the higher end recording interfaces and cards allow for user selectable sample rate. That is nothing new and present on many soundcards and reording interfaces.

 I was wondering why your using ASIO4all, doesn't your audio device have native ASIO driver?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lordvader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been covered, but I've been unable to find much info on the recording capabilities of these cards.

 I'm building a new PC, and want to start doing 24/96 recordings of my vinyl collection. How does this card do in that regard (compared to cards like the m-audio 2496, or emu 0404) ?_

 

Actually, considering the STX is meant for playback the card actually has a high quality ADC chip with fairly impressive specifications.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who said nobody cares? Just nobody seems to think it is a big deal to change the sample rate if they need to.
 You seem to keep ignoreing that point. We can change the sample rate and no resampling occurs.

 As for your bit about no "serious" soundcard allows resampling, I own many,many soundcards and audio interfaces and many of the higher end recording interfaces and cards allow for user selectable sample rate. That is nothing new and present on many soundcards and reording interfaces.

 I was wondering why your using ASIO4all, doesn't your audio device have native ASIO driver?_

 

changing the samplerate manually is not acceptable...nor is resampling ASIO!

 all serious ESI/Auzentech/M-Audio/RME/Lynx/TC Electronics/Echo/HT Claro will allow either an automatic unlocked samplerate(to avoid SRC) or a fixed samplerate on S/PDIF....because that's what it is all about, some ppl want fixed samplerate over S/PDIF. the rest of the people want bit-perfect analog audio!





 it was just a test, and it's identical to the stock M-Audio ASIO drivers...meaning it's the hardware level M-Audio drivers that forbid SRC, ASIO/KS/DS are just ways to reach it..

 anyway, if some ppl believe they deserve bit-perfect analog audio, complain to the link I've given above. the more ppl complain, the more chances we'll get full blown automatic bit-perfect audio on this fantastic soundcard


----------



## ROBSCIX

If I use ASIO drivers for Winamp etc..set the sample rate there is no resampling.
 Why do you think that bit perfect is not possible on this card? May be a bit of a pain to change the sample rate here and there but far from "unacceptable" The card is new, drivers are new maybe they will add such a feature down the road.

 In one post you say the STX is not a "serious" soundcard and is aimed at the "average joe" and then in the next post you post "fantastic soundcard"
 Anyway, I think we need to get on to a new subject.


----------



## leeperry

yes, you seem to fail to understand that any serious soundcard has an "unlocked"(meaning "not locked") samplerate option, like the Echo(I've posted a snapshot from the drivers above)...serious ppl don't want any SRC whatsoever, otherwise they'd be using KMixer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's a fantastic piece of hardware w/ lacking drivers, so w/ a bit of whining to their techsupport the software might match the hardware excellence!

 but considering that after 3 pages you still did not understand...explaining it to some taiwanese engineers might be next to impossible(my mandarin not being too good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ROBSCIX

There you go speaking for everybody or all the "serious" people. Don't do that, as you have zero clue what other people want or don't want. 

 I understand perfectly fine, but your making a mountian out of a mole hill.
 The setting is there, if you want bit perfect, change it when needed.
 Perhaps the drivers setting will be added at a later time, until then I will change ti when I need to. Which isn't all that often.
 Also, you have been going on for much longer the 3 pages...as the other poster mentioned your also complaining in the other STX thread aswell.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The the owners of the card that swap opamps. Has anybody tested out the OPA827's yet?
 Many have said they are similar to OPA6X7's and meant as a member of that series. The specifications look great and they might be a great chip for I/V or actually single ended buffer also.

 Only trouble is, SOIC8 single channel. I have some brown dog adapters on order and I am planning ol soldering up a a few modules and testing them out on the STX. I will post my results when I am finished.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have been considering the THS4032 also, but they may need a few extra tweaks to keep them from oscillating given the speed of the chip.

 Has anybody tested either of these chips yet?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There you go speaking for everybody or all the "serious" people. Don't do that, as you have zero clue what other people want or don't want._

 

your level of expertise in the audio engineering department will force me to take your reviews on that dutch website of yours w/ a big grain of salt from now on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "serious" ppl want bit-perfect audio in analog w/ an "unlocked" samplerate(who wants to change it manually whether they listen to CDDA/DVD/DVA-A? except retards?), locked samplerate is only useful on S/PDIF, there shouldn't be ANY SRC in analog(like on any "serious" soundcard)...resampling creates increased THD/THD+N rates, no matter how well it's done.

 maybe it's time you get a clue why M-Audio/Echo and all the other "serious" manufacturers offer an option for "unlocked samplerate" and forbid SRC(hell, even Creative does that!)...it's never too late ya know


----------



## KDE

It seems STX's DAC PCM1792A is doing oversampling according to datasheet.
 Doing oversampling twice is certainly non-sense.


----------



## VykRO

I am a novice in hi-fi area but even so I want to stress that unfortunately this topic has become less usefull and the fact that a few people argue each other it clearly makes it of really no use. Poaints were raised and arguments placed.

 There is no need to continue the discussion IMHO.

 There is the PM, e-mauil, mess, whatever, the topic is for usefull stuff not endless pointless discussions.

*leeperry*, please realise that further posting on the same subject is pointless. Regardless of who's wright.


----------



## genclaymore

Edit: Rob when you solder the OPA827 to the adaptor let me know how it sound, As well as that other one you thinking about, also. 

 Also attacking people over there view is silly and jacks up threads.We really dont need 50 pages worth of fights.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure I will let you know.

 If they are anything close to their brothers. The 6X7 series, we may have a new favorite. I have been consider the THS series for a awhile as they are said to be amazing amps to use for DAC in the I/V converter section. Considering the speed of the chip though it may take a bit of handy work to get them stable.


----------



## Shahrose

Hey Rob, I recall you were going to post your findings on quite a few opamps. I was wondering if that would still materialize as I'm still eager to read it.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"serious" ppl want bit-perfect audio in analog w/ an "unlocked" samplerate(who wants to change it manually whether they listen to CDDA/DVD/DVA-A? except retards?..._

 

Are you kidding us or just a little slow? Just fix it at 44.1 khz and all your music will play bitperfect. It really isn't that hard and if you actually did music or soundproduction as your dayjob you would be a lot smarter than you seem to be.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems STX's DAC PCM1792A is doing oversampling according to datasheet.
 Doing oversampling twice is certainly non-sense._

 

And do you have any idea what oversampling is how it's different than resampling?


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Now my little project is finished!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

one more!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I was thinking to buy a external DAC, but the sound of this card is just amazing!!! No need for another DAC. 
 In sound I find artefacts and fragments that I thought did not exist!!! The sound is so clear.
 Best buy ever!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Very nice, I have been working with various unit,disctre opamps and having great sonic results. I don't have any pics yet. I will take some and post them.

 Those caps, what duty are they performing?


----------



## Toad

Currently I have a squeezebox with upgraded power supply connected to an external dac and amp...however the squeezebox can't even support 24/96 where this card seems to be able to support 24/192. I don't necessarily need the squeezebox as my dac/amp are close by. How would this card compare as a transport versus like an RME Fireface 400 or even my current squeezebox setup?


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

The caps are for stabilizing the opamp. You put it on V+ and V- !!! They also have and effect on the colour of sound.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice, I have been working with various unit,disctre opamps and having great sonic results. I don't have any pics yet. I will take some and post them.

 Those caps, what duty are they performing?_

 

Which unit do you use and what are your experiences? I think the discret unit 
 sound better! (only my thoughts - no offence)


----------



## Reader

ALl these mode make me think they should come up with a sound card with size of 4870x2,


----------



## Mr_Owlow

I would just like to say that this is great card! I've had this card for several months now and I really love it. I mainly use it with my stereo-system and it sounds very detailed and rich. I also use Sennheiser RS120, a phone that has really come to life as well, something I didn't think possible as it is wireless. This thread has also got me looking in to op-amps and I have ordered a couple of different ones to see what I like and I will soon buy some good cans that will really do this card justice.
 Thanks for some great reading and thanks to ROBSCIX for the review, it was what pushed me over the edge


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The caps are for stabilizing the opamp. You put it on V+ and V- !!! They also have and effect on the colour of sound._

 

I thought that is what you were using them for but figured I would ask. THe models I am testing already has those caps installed but I have been considering tryingt some others.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which unit do you use and what are your experiences? I think the discret unit 
 sound better! (only my thoughts - no offence)_

 


 I have been testing quite a few different units. Chips amps and discrete, I will be working on a write up for the discrete units very soon once testing has finished.


----------



## twhtpclover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now my little project is finished! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What project? 
 was there image in the post?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just like to say that this is great card! I've had this card for several months now and I really love it. I mainly use it with my stereo-system and it sounds very detailed and rich. I also use Sennheiser RS120, a phone that has really come to life as well, something I didn't think possible as it is wireless. This thread has also got me looking in to op-amps and I have ordered a couple of different ones to see what I like and I will soon buy some good cans that will really do this card justice.
 Thanks for some great reading and thanks to ROBSCIX for the review, it was what pushed me over the edge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad you enjoyed the review.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What project? 
 was there image in the post?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

His project of adding Burson discrete opamps with new caps to his STX.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What project? 
 was there image in the post?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yes there's an image. You even quoted and reposted it just now. Not sure why you can't see it.


----------



## shogo33

Hi guys,
 Great write up on this thread about the Xonar. I've been contemplating on getting the STX, (currently using on board ALC888 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). However, i need to clear something up first before i take the plunge. 

 I have been using Foobar 0.83, DirectSound 2 & CM108 drivers to output an 12S digital signal into my Valab DAC via USB2 connections on both ends. Would the STX be a good upgrade over the onboard ALC888 eventhough i'm bypassing the Kmixer and outputing a bit perfect signal(I think) to the Valab? Also, i'm using the Burson Audio Buffer from the Valab's into my pre amp.

 Thanks..


----------



## twhtpclover

oh yeah.. it'll be like heaven and earth.
 Just go upgrade, you won't regret it.. guaranteed.


----------



## twhtpclover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes there's an image. You even quoted and reposted it just now. Not sure why you can't see it._

 

man.. you're driving me nuts
 i've reloaded for 100 times but still can't see any image there...









:confused_face_2 :


----------



## Bmac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shogo33* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,
 Great write up on this thread about the Xonar. I've been contemplating on getting the STX, (currently using on board ALC888 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). However, i need to clear something up first before i take the plunge. 

 I have been using Foobar 0.83, DirectSound 2 & CM108 drivers to output an 12S digital signal into my Valab DAC via USB2 connections on both ends. Would the STX be a good upgrade over the onboard ALC888 eventhough i'm bypassing the Kmixer and outputing a bit perfect signal(I think) to the Valab? Also, i'm using the Burson Audio Buffer from the Valab's into my pre amp.

 Thanks.._

 

I'm not sure anyone has compared the 2 DAC's. My guess is that if you plan to use the STX only for it's DAC that it wouldn't be a huge upgrade. It might be a little better but I don't think the difference would be huge. If on the other hand you want to use the STX for it's DAC and headphone amp then it would probably be a worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The DAC chip on the STX is one of the best chips made...


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC chip on the STX is one of the best chips made..._

 

That's not exactly true, and the chipset alone is only one part of the package. Not knocking the DAC in the STX, as it sounds quite good to me, just saying it's not elite in the least.


----------



## audionewbieyao

why? isn't 1792 already one of the best?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not exactly true, and the chipset alone is only one part of the package. Not knocking the DAC in the STX, as it sounds quite good to me, just saying it's not elite in the least._

 

Not exactly true? Read the sentence again. 
 Compare the various high end DAC chips on the market and you will see the chip used in the STX is one of the best made.

 We all know there is more to the system but it remains true the STX uses one of the best Digital to analog converter chips made to date.


----------



## Fantoon

Min req. considering the power supply?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not exactly true? Read the sentence again. 
 Compare the various high end DAC chips on the market and you will see the chip used in the STX is one of the best made.

 We all know there is more to the system but it remains true the STX uses one of the best Digital to analog converter chips made to date.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

DAC chips cost, literally, less than $20 nearly universally. Even Bel Canto uses cheapass chips. The E-Mu 1212m uses a superior DAC to the STX and costs $50 or so less depending on where you get it. I use the STX for the total package, however.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAC chips cost, literally, less than $20 nearly universally. Even Bel Canto uses cheapass chips. The E-Mu 1212m uses a superior DAC to the STX and costs $50 or so less depending on where you get it. I use the STX for the total package, however._

 


 Superior, Are you sure about that?

 Lets look at the data:

*EMU 1212M*
*D/A:* Cirrus Logic CS4398

*Output*
*THD+N (1 Khz):* -105 dB (.0006%)
*SNR (A wieghted):* 120dB
*Dynamic Range:* 120dB

*Xonar STX*
*D/A: *PCM1792A

*Output*
*THD+N (1Khz):* Front-Out: -110dB (0.0003%)
*SNR (A-Weighted):*127dB
*Dynamic Range:* 127dB

 Not sure what you call superior but according to the numbers, the DAC used in the STX is far better then that used in the 1212M.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As we already discussed there is more to the device then just the DAC and these cards are meant for very different user types and tasks.
 I figured it might make a great comparison though and really If DAC chips are as cheap as your suggesting, it has to make you wonder why all the compaanies aren't using the best
 DAC's they can find?


----------



## 12Bass

Economy of scale probably plays a role. Saving a few dollars in manufacturing means a lot more profit.


----------



## leeperry

well, whaddayaknow...my whining has paid, Asus will release long overdue bit-perfect drivers : ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Share your problems here.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, whaddayaknow...my whining has paid, Asus will release long overdue bit-perfect drivers : ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Share your problems here._

 

..probably because, the idea was suggested long ago.

 Such as:
 "We have this item in our schedule already and will release via software update when ready, just can't say for sure on the date at this moment."


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_probably because the idea was suggested long ago._

 

yes, prolly because *you* told them about it...ages ago, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 godverdomme you're so awesome, I wish I were you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the first Xonar cards were released several years ago, and they all resample! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hopefully that little story learned you another point to check in your clueless raving web reviews, except "ahmagad, it's so great...buy it you guys already!!111"


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, whaddayaknow...my whining has paid, Asus will release long overdue bit-perfect drivers : ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Share your problems here._

 

congarats leeperry
 you saved me some whining.


----------



## Aquanote

well leeperry it seemded you really pulled it off. maybe the harsh back and forth here wasnt necessary but you did it! a man of his word. congrats and thanks. please continue finding possible faults in the driver and tell asus about it.

 i love my essence but its nice to get free improvements


----------



## sonci

Thanks leeperry, for sure you love the STX more than everyone else in here..

 PS: Hope, that moderator, is not just a Taiwanese kid


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, prolly because *you* told them about it...ages ago, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 godverdomme you're so awesome, I wish I were you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the first Xonar cards were released several years ago, and they all resample! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hopefully that little story learned you another point to check in your clueless raving web reviews, except "ahmagad, it's so great...buy it you guys already!!111" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, I guess it was from your trolling from thread to thread over and over spreading incorrect info. Yes, that is what did it....
 Give it up....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Consider you were told it was slated for addition to the driver release already, why would you think you had any part in it?

 Lets look over the info,
 "*Hi Leeperry,

 Thanks for your comments regarding bit-perfect mode.
 We have this item in our schedule already and will release via software update when ready, just can't say for sure on the date at this moment.

 Really appreciate your precious suggestions, we take it seriously.
 Thanks.*"

 Yes, says it all right there.


----------



## maarek99

And then he asks for oversampling which the dac is always doing. It's an oversampling dac! My god leeperry, I really doubt you wil ever even own this card.


----------



## leeperry

well, w/ a bit of luck the software will soon match the hardware...and that'd be just great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope that moderator is not just a Taiwanese kid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

check his signature/profile, and his previous posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And then he asks for oversampling which the dac is always doing. It's an oversampling dac! My god leeperry, I really doubt you wil ever even own this card._

 

resampling and oversampling are 2 different things....resampling is a lame attempt that only increases THD/THD+N distortion and artifacts, oversampling is done in the DAC to increase the filtering accuracy of the conversion...in order to move the distorsion to the inaudible spectrum(can you say noiseshaping? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) 2 different things, one you want, the other one you definitely don't!

 well, I was hoping to get bit-perfect drivers before I get the card...the card should arrive in the next coming days, there's been many national days lately in my stupid country


----------



## pompon

Why Asus ? It's not asus the conceptor of Xonar or I missed something ?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I guess it was from your trolling from thread to thread over and over spreading incorrect info. Yes, that is what did it....
 Give it up....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Consider you were told it was slated for addition to the driver release already, why would you think you had any part in it?

 Lets look over the info,
 "*Hi Leeperry,

 Thanks for your comments regarding bit-perfect mode.
 We have this item in our schedule already and will release via software update when ready, just can't say for sure on the date at this moment.

 Really appreciate your precious suggestions, we take it seriously.
 Thanks.*"

 Yes, says it all right there._

 

lol. It's ok Rob. Let him think he was the reason for it. Clearly, they said it was already on their list of things to do long before he went on his crusade against resampling.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why Asus ? It's not asus the conceptor of Xonar or I missed something ?_

 

yep, you seem to have missed sumthing indeed..and I'll be getting my bit-perfect drivers after all, just great!

 so many smart ppl on my ignore list, sucks I can't read their dumb comments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Upsampling, on the other hand, is relatively newer and debated greatly. The effects of upsampling are no doubt overstated. By carefully designing the sampler, ADC, digital processing path, and oversampling DAC, the upsampling and asynchronous rate transfer can, in my opinion, be avoided. 
 

http://www.audioholics.com/education...-digital-audio


----------



## Fantoon

No info about the minimum requirements needed from the power supply? Was considering a HTPC based on ASUSTeK Computer Inc., the power supply is specified to 200W.


----------



## Ranyuncho

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this ultra long thread. having been into computer audio for years i was skeptical when i first saw the stx, my last audio setup being the peachtree audio nova and before that ps audio link 3 dac (also had benchmark dac 1, musical fidelity xdac v3, cia audio vda 1) being fed digital out from x-fi fatality mainly using Sony MDR-SA5000 cans and a mg head 3 tube head amp. out of the box the stx is decent but not in the same league as the nova and link dac but wait change 2 simple op amps (the jrc2114 for LME49720NA-ND from digikey dont change the buffer opamp its already very good) for 12 bucks and you have a new dac that easily competes with the nova and ps link 3. keep in mind use a good motherboard with e-sata port =$200+, power supply =$100+, e-sata external hard drive to keep all your music on. all of these items affect sound quality alot and different hard drives do sound different im using currently SAMSUNG HD160JJ in an antec external case with vibration dampers. dont skimp on the computer parts if you want good sound besides you will have a nice computer to surf the web with and get sound that will easily cost a $1000+ in dedicated audio equipment at the same time. my theory as to why the asus sound so good is 1) superior design and parts 2) no loss/corruption of signal through digital transmission to outboard dac 3) smaller companies dont have the resources or know how to design and build such complex mutli layer pcb's such as asus does without charging you a arm and leg and asus can buy things like capacitors and dac chips by the tens of thousands to get best pricing. if any one is hesitant to try the stx because you think it might not sound as good as a outboard dac or dedicated stereo system i encourage you to follow my tips and compare you will be surprised like i was. if you can't get a good mobo, powersupply etc. at the very least replace those shabby 35 cent jrc2114 opamps.


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


 different hard drives do sound different 
 

You lost any crediability right there (if you mean music from one sounds better, not that certain drives have less idle, vibration & seek noise)

 If somehow music sounds different that means it's altering the data, if that occured your computer would crash within a 1 second of booting up.


----------



## leeperry

hah, indeed bits are bits...that's it!

 but I agree Asus knows better than any pro audio manufacturer how to build low noise PCB's, especially on PCI-E, which is very high tech to begin w/


----------



## dex85

i think he meant that vibrating hdd and noise from rotating platters could have effect on STX DAC, not that it would alter any data. like put your DAC in the vacuum with zero noise otherwise you will get crappy sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enviroment noise effect is imo overrated in DAC process.

 btw, good to see drivers will support auto sample rate.

  Quote:


 No info about the minimum requirements needed from the power supply? Was considering a HTPC based on ASUSTeK Computer Inc., the power supply is specified to 200W. 
 

its not about output power, more about good implementation, stable voltages and low ripple. i'm not aware of any 200W PSU meant for PC from good manufacturer, most of them start on 350W+. not that 200W is low, it would be sufficient for most of the PC rigs, but its better if psu dont have operate under almost full load for extended time.


----------



## leeperry

well, apparently the metal LME49720 sound better than the DIP8 because it'd kill any remaining EMI...it was said by a National engineer, and confirmed by other members on their STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I believe I read that the STX would use around 10W


----------



## pompon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why Asus ? It's not asus the conceptor of Xonar or I missed something ?_

 

Any idea someone ? I will not read back all those very long thread ...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea someone ? I will not read back all those very long thread ..._

 

Not sure what your asking here Pom, Yes ASUS designed and built the Xonar cards.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fantoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No info about the minimum requirements needed from the power supply? Was considering a HTPC based on ASUSTeK Computer Inc., the power supply is specified to 200W._

 

We confirmed the power requirements for the STX awhile back as a few guys wanted to build external PSU's. The STX draws about 20 Watts, usually a bit less.


----------



## Ranyuncho

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You lost any crediability right there (if you mean music from one sounds better, not that certain drives have less idle, vibration & seek noise)

 If somehow music sounds different that means it's altering the data, if that occured your computer would crash within a 1 second of booting up._

 

try it yourself for yourself i could be wrong there might not be any difference it could just be me but on the other hand maybe it has something to do with jitter or something and you do have jitter present in any computer system. when i can afford a ssd to put all my music on i will try that too. i was just trying to be helpful to anyone trying to get their computer audio up to dedicated audio system quality having tried many different outboard dac's if setup properly the asus will compete with anything i have owned including peachtree audio nova, benchmark dac1, musical fidelity xdac v3 with outboard power supply and tube buffer, cia audio vda 1, ps audio link 3. the asus having an edge over all mentioned. give it the supporting parts it needs to sound its best and you will see.

 jitter defined
Jitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Fantoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We confirmed the power requirements for the STX awhile back as a few guys wanted to build external PSU's. The STX draws about 20 Watts, usually a bit less._

 

Ty again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will try to send a message to Asus just to get some more facts about that PSU. The shape and design of that barebone is what makes it desirable. It's also cheap


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fantoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ty again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will try to send a message to Asus just to get some more facts about that PSU. The shape and design of that barebone is what makes it desirable. It's also cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem.


----------



## twhtpclover

New review
Asus Xonar Essence STX Review - Overclockers Club

 Conclusion:
 As with most products, I was slightly apprehensive about the Xonar Essence STX before I heard it. I asked myself, how could a small, simple amplifier on a soundcard perform anywhere near as well as a standalone headphone amplifier? The answer is, it performs spectacularly thanks to the high quality components producing the line-level audio signal, as well as the very capable headphone amplification circuitry.


----------



## leeperry

ok, I finally got the darn card! off to install it


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twhtpclover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New review
Asus Xonar Essence STX Review - Overclockers Club

 Conclusion:
 As with most products, I was slightly apprehensive about the Xonar Essence STX before I heard it. I asked myself, how could a small, simple amplifier on a soundcard perform anywhere near as well as a standalone headphone amplifier? The answer is, it performs spectacularly thanks to the high quality components producing the line-level audio signal, as well as the very capable headphone amplification circuitry.




_

 

Gives pretty much the same opinion as others gave of the card after review.


----------



## audionewbieyao

unless they want to compare the multi-channel analog out, or driver package size, it would be a big surprise if they have different opinion...


----------



## Bojamijams

Although saying that a IC amplifier performs as well as a standalone amplifier is just showing noobishness on the authors part. The thing that gives the STX its amazing sound is its great DAC. The headphone amplifier is good, but nowhere near as good as a standalone amplifier, especially a transistor based one.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just curious, Do you know of any headphone amplifier that can surpass the STX's headphone amplifier for a similar price?


----------



## leeperry

ok, so I've been playing around for a few hours. I directly put 3x49720, played a few tracks in ASIO....and found the SQ really bad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my current M-Audio just sounded WAY better in bitperfect ASIO w/ 24/96 FLAC.

 so I've decided to put back the stock op-amps, better! but still some problems like 24/96 FLAC had some ugly background noise and so on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I went KS, and that's perfect now! except that 24/192 DVD-A FLAC sound REALLY bad ?! I did set the samplerate to 192KHz in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, no biggy...I don't really care for 192KHz stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also, I got a DT770/600Ω, w/ the min impedance I have to max it, w/ max impedance I have to set it to almost the minimum and it sounds badly distorted....w/ mid impedance I can leave the volume at 10 o'clock and it sounds great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess the 49720 need a few days of burning in ?! and avoid the ASIO drivers on XP, they really stink! thankfully Asus didn't screw up the KS drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I can definitely hear the resampling of that soundcard, setting 96KHz on a currently playing 44.1KHz FLAC makes the sound brighter and more saturated....I guess I'll have to manually change the samplerate until Asus figures it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway in direct comparison(2 instances of foobar), the M-Audio sounds more distorted and noisier...this is a keeper!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Hey guys. 
 I agree, this card has a awesome DAC section. Yesterday I switched my vintage mcintosh ma6100 to RCA and I must say its a nice match. Very natural laid back sound. I just figured out I need a tube head amp!!! 
 But the integrated head amp of essence I would say is not so good!!! If you really want a decent sounding platform, you need a solid state head amp for more than 200$!!! 
 About the review: In my opinion the x-fi is playing in other territories like games and is not very good for comperison!!! The essence plays in other league!!!


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious, Do you know of any headphone amplifier that can surpass the STX's headphone amplifier for a similar price?_

 

i would also like to know. not that i consider essence's amp to be stellar, but what people consider to be an audible upgrade over TI amp? e.g., do anyone think Little Dot Mk V to be better/worse amp?


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would also like to know. not that i consider essence's amp to be stellar, but what people consider to be an audible upgrade over TI amp? e.g., do anyone think Little Dot Mk V to be better/worse amp?_

 

There are so many amps out there!!! For my own I would like to try the essence whit a DARKVOICE 3322!!!
 The essence whit bursons opamps is producing a very cristal clear natural sound whit good datails. I think a good tube amp would be a great fit!!!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE




----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

What do you think? Would this be a good match?


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are so many amps out there!!! For my own I would like to try the essence whit a DARKVOICE 3322!!!
 The essence whit bursons opamps is producing a very cristal clear natural sound whit good datails. I think a good tube amp would be a great fit!!!_

 

i'll probably pair essence with solid state amp later on. essence has already warm signature, so adding another warm component in the chain would make it a little too much in my opinion


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I think my card is right now for my taste too clear. So whit a tube amp I need to find a balance for me!


----------



## leeperry

actually, if I play a 24/96 FLAC(in foobar in KS) w/ 44.1 set in the drivers....I get some crazy background noise, that goes away after I set 96KHz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 using the latest XP drivers, on XP SP3.

 sloppy drivers at work!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually, if I play a 24/96 FLAC(in foobar in KS) w/ 44.1 set in the drivers....I get some crazy background noise, that goes away after I set 96KHz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 using the latest XP drivers, on XP SP3.

 sloppy drivers at work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Known issue. the sampling rate doesn't change with the audio file as with other audio brand drivers. From a programming perceptive, it really shouldn't be that hard to implement. A statement from ASUS regarding this = good.


----------



## leeperry

well, everyone said resampling was inaudible....not quite.

 anyway, bit-perfect drivers are on their way, hopefully I won't need to change the samplerate in the drivers until the end of days


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think my card is right now for my taste too clear. So whit a tube amp I need to find a balance for me!_

 

How do you find the signature with Burson as compared to the stock units?


----------



## leeperry

actually the level of micro-details on this DVD-A is very impressive when you play it at very low volume : Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Best: 1991-2004 (2 CD & DVD Audio)

 the volume control is definitely not destructive!

 I wonder if recabling to UPOCC+Furutech will increase the sound definition even further, I'll let the stock op-amps burn in and will definitely recable sometime next week


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you find the signature with Burson as compared to the stock units?_

 

Here is my review:
 Its bright, open, punchy, clear, natural, very dynamic. Every time I play a song it surprises me all the time. Maybe I am a little bit romantic but the sound card has a soul. I dont want to make some sort of ads for the burson guys but it really makes the difference for my taste. I like to hear the sound stage in front of me like I will take a seat a enjoy it live. Whit this configuration I would say it is so. I am enjoying it.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually, if I play a 24/96 FLAC(in foobar in KS) w/ 44.1 set in the drivers....I get some crazy background noise, that goes away after I set 96KHz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 using the latest XP drivers, on XP SP3.

 sloppy drivers at work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

playing 24/96 MLP (shaplay/reclock wasapi ) no back ground noise. everything crystal clear at either 96/192 samle rate.

 Using windows seven with latest vista drivers.

 However, only with 24/192 audio is "effect processing" disabled.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would also like to know. not that i consider essence's amp to be stellar, but what people consider to be an audible upgrade over TI amp? e.g., do anyone think Little Dot Mk V to be better/worse amp?_

 

The MKV is clearly better. I've had it. I consider the TI internal amp in the big picture of things a low-end amp. It's not crap, but it's not stellar either.


----------



## shogo33

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my review:
 Its bright, open, punchy, clear, natural, very dynamic. Every time I play a song it surprises me all the time. Maybe I am a little bit romantic but the sound card has a soul. I dont want to make some sort of ads for the burson guys but it really makes the difference for my taste. I like to hear the sound stage in front of me like I will take a seat a enjoy it live. Whit this configuration I would say it is so. I am enjoying it._

 

I'll add my 2 cents to this. I've just recently got the STX card and have used it along with my old Burson buffer via analog outs into my preamp. Have to say i'm am stunned. I think i've found the best balanced sound for my liking. The STX has a warm but balanced sound which i like so far (using stock opamps). When i added the Burson buffer to the link, the soundstage went up a few notches in terms of clarity, dynamics, bass punch..but all without losing that smooth warm signature to the vocals and midrange. Btw, i have some decent floorstanders, (Tannoy Dual Concentrics Eyris) and a beasty 2 channel amp (Korsun V8i). This is all done via Foobar2k player using Kernal streaming, unmapping the Asus drivers from WinXP SP3 (cleaner sound) @ 16bit / 44.1khz lossless sampling rate. Btw, I had to drop the gain by 6db's due to the gain introduced by the buffer, but once i recalibrated it, its was just blis. Just listen to Ben Harper's Fight for your mind track, its all there, attack, dynamics, tight deep bass, smooth vocals, midrange...

 This signature sound comes so close and i mean so close to my friend's rig, which uses a Vincent valve cdp, Vincent pre + power amp valve combo via Jamo Concert mains which cost $$$$$$ more than my rig. I am almost tempted to do away with my cdp rig in favour of this new found babe.. 

 Btw, i found that if you power the card using a separate independant power rail from the PSU, the sound is much more cleaner.. I have a Cosair 520w psu with cable management system.


----------



## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shogo33* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Btw, i found that if you power the card using a separate independant power rail from the PSU, the sound is much more cleaner.. I have a Cosair 520w psu with cable management system._

 

Oh, Please..


----------



## dex85

^^i have experienced the same thing, i'm using the same psu. but i think in my case it was caused by the devices plugged in before Essence on the same 3-way molex cable (one of them being HDD which was probably a culprit). sound got noticeable better after i plugged xonar via single molex. 

 as for different rails, how would you know which 12v rail are you using with xonar, and when it switches to different one?


----------



## leeperry

wow I've just put the LM4562, I'm stunned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 major improvement over the stock 2114, wider soundstage, no saturation audible whatsoever, very very very clean and chirurgical sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if the ST is even better, I'll be ordering it ASAP


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow I've just put the LM4562, I'm stunned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 major improvement over the stock 2114, wider soundstage, no saturation audible whatsoever, very very very clean and chirurgical sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if the ST is even better, I'll be ordering it ASAP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The LM4562NA is a high quality opamp for the price. The company won many awards for the design. 

 Not sure if you figured it out yet, When using the headphone amplifier changing the 2114D is the only opamps that will affect the sound.
 The third opamps is used only when your using line-out.


----------



## leeperry

now I know what "eargasm" mean, I'm feeling it babe'...I'm feeling it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's #$%#@$@# annoying to constantly change the samplerate in the drivers whether I wanna listen to CDDA/DVD/DVD-A, but well I'm hoping for an update before xmas


----------



## dex85

is everybody experiecing a really loud pop in headphones when relay switch between HP and 2 speakers? its been like that since day one, i didnt care at first but now im little worried about damage it could induce to the drivers after time. should it be that way and im paranoid, or is something serious wrong with my card?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now I know what "eargasm" mean, I'm feeling it babe'...I'm feeling it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's #$%#@$@# annoying to constantly change the samplerate in the drivers whether I wanna listen to CDDA/DVD/DVD-A, but well I'm hoping for an update before xmas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 LOL, now look whose giving the card rave reviews....


----------



## Aquanote

i would also like to try out other opamps to make the sound of the essence even better. what would be a "without a doubt" improvement over stock? not more than 100$ though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does somebody has the wisdom of 108 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, now look whose giving the card rave reviews....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well, 2 simple things :
 1)-you tested the card ages ago, why didn't you whine to Asus right away about the lack of "auto" samplerate in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 this is not acceptable! they told me they'd fix it, well I'd like to see it happening sooner than later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and why do the ASIO drivers sound so bad ?! luckily KS sounds good if you set the right samplerate manually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2)-you have both the ST and STX, how about a comparative review on CDDA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 does the improved clock make ANY audible difference at 44.1KHz w/ high-end phones?

 I was told on the Asus official forum that a guy could "hear" the STX jitter ?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 making a raving review is nice, but you need to point out the bad sides and emphasise them...we read review sites to know what's wrong too! we deserve perfect products, especially if the issue is on the software side.

 and w/ the stock 2114D, I was impressed but it wasn't quite "head-fi" to me...but now, w/ the 4562 it's a whole different story...PRAT has gone up the roof, literally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aquanote* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would also like to try out other opamps to make the sound of the essence even better. what would be a "without a doubt" improvement over stock?_

 

get some LM4562 samples from National > $10 shipped > you're done!

 ..well until the ST comes out anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shogo33* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, i found that if you power the card using a separate independant power rail from the PSU, the sound is much more cleaner.. I have a Cosair 520w psu with cable management system._

 

mine was shared w/ some DVD drives...I've left it alone now on the molex cable, can't hear much difference tbh...I've got a 500W BeQuiet.


----------



## shogo33

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^i have experienced the same thing, i'm using the same psu. but i think in my case it was caused by the devices plugged in before Essence on the same 3-way molex cable (one of them being HDD which was probably a culprit). sound got noticeable better after i plugged xonar via single molex. _

 

I didnt get that chalk/cheese or night/day difference from this. I found that it sounded better without sharing the molex with other devices like the 120mm fans that i had connected to it. When i unplugged those fans and ran it without, it sounded clearer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, 2 simple things :
 1)-you tested the card ages ago, why didn't you whine to Asus right away about the lack of "auto" samplerate in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 this is not acceptable! they told me they'd fix it, well I'd like to see it happening sooner than later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and why do the ASIO drivers sound so bad ?! luckily KS sounds good if you set the right samplerate manually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

First off, you have zero clue what I have discussed with anybody concerning anything.

 As for testing the card ages ago, the first round of reviews just came out a few months ago. The STX is a brand new card using early drivers. Give them a chance to read the feedback and release a more refined set of drivers. You say it is unacceptable, yet you accepted it and bought the card anyway.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My STX sounds great when I use ASIO drivers and nobody else has complained about issue with ASIO either in this thread. Perhaps you have other troubles in your system.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2)-you have both the ST and STX, how about a comparative review on CDDA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 does the improved clock make ANY audible difference at 44.1KHz w/ high-end phones?_

 

Maybe I will do that. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was told on the Asus official forum that a guy could "hear" the STX jitter ?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you believe everything you read in the forums? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_making a raving review is nice, but you need to point out the bad sides and emphasise them...we read review sites to know what's wrong too! we deserve perfect products, especially if the issue is on the software side._

 

I gave the STX a good review because that is what my tests said it desearved. I also pointed out a few bad points so I wouldn't call my review "raving"
 I never said the card gave a "eargasm" as you did... 
 The card seems to get a similar review from all official reviewers and owners.
 The driver are a bit rough and many would like to see various settings added but there is great potential. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and w/ the stock 2114D, I was impressed but it wasn't quite "head-fi" to me...but now, w/ the 4562 it's a whole different story...PRAT has gone up the roof, literally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get some LM4562 samples from National > $10 shipped > you're done!

 ..well until the ST comes out anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 mine was shared w/ some DVD drives...I've left it alone now on the molex cable, can't hear much difference tbh...I've got a 500W BeQuiet._

 

That would be a subjective opinion and not fact. That configuration was suggested awhile back. Some liked it some did not IIRC.
 People have varying opinion as to what great sound quality is but if you like them use them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There are other combination people like if you look through the pages of this long thread.


----------



## 12Bass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow I've just put the LM4562, I'm stunned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 major improvement over the stock 2114, wider soundstage, no saturation audible whatsoever, very very very clean and chirurgical sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And you have tried the LME49720 in the I/V as well? It's supposed to be the same as the LM4562, although I've heard a subtle difference between the two, though not in I/V, as my cards do not have an I/V section.

 Some other parts which might be worth listening to are THS4032 for I/V and OPA211 x 2 for output (both SOIC).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And you have tried the LME49720 in the I/V as well? It's supposed to be the same as the LM4562, although I've heard a subtle difference between the two, though not in I/V, as my cards do not have an I/V section.

 Some other parts which might be worth listening to are THS4032 for I/V and OPA211 x 2 for output (both SOIC)._

 

Different opamps seem to sound different depeding on who you ask, 
 some will say the LM4562NA and LMe49720 sound the same and others will say they sound different.

 I have a few THS's. Have you used the 211's? What is your opinion on those?
 I have yet to install the THS as I need adapters. You just reminded me..


----------



## shogo33

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be a subjective opinion and not fact. That configuration was suggested awhile back. Some liked it some did not IIRC.
 People have varying opinion as to what great sound quality is but if you like them use them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There are other combination people like if you look through the pages of this long thread._

 

Yep, tough call on opamp selection as it depends on personal bias. The stock opamps arent too shabby, but i'm using a Burson buffer at the end to give some 'oomph' to that sound character. One thing i *personally feel* is that the current soundstage could be wider with the stock, so i'll burn the stock opamps for a bit more and make a decision in the next month or so.


----------



## 12Bass

Yes, I've used the OPA211s and find them a bit more lively/open sounding compared to the National chips. They seem to "speak" better in the midrange, and have a more "organic" sound, while I find the Nationals (LM/LME) a bit dry sounding, IMO.

 I've used Browndog SOIC/DIP adapters in the past for duals (and still do for dual single SOIC to DIP). However, these days usually I just carefully splay out the SOIC pins and solder a dual SOIC device directly to a DIP socket. The inner four pins (2, 3, 6, 7) should be right on the edge of the DIP socket's inner holes, while you might need a small resistor lead or other piece of wire for the outer pins (1, 4, 5, 8). Just be careful with heat so the socket doesn't melt!


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And you have tried the LME49720 in the I/V as well? It's supposed to be the same as the LM4562, although I've heard a subtle difference between the two, though not in I/V, as my cards do not have an I/V section.

 Some other parts which might be worth listening to are THS4032 for I/V and OPA211 x 2 for output (both SOIC)._

 

yes, I did try the 49720...but I was using the ASIO drivers in foobar, and they stink big time! so at point, I put back the stock op-amps and was about it to call it a game and sell the card...when I remembered that KS was said to sound better, and it does! so I'll let the 4562 burn in for a few days, and I might very well try the 49720 again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the other op-amps are mostly SOIC8, I want something that just fits...w/o the huge markups from ppl who solder them on DIP8 adapters on ebay(and what if they mess up? I really don't wanna fry the card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 one thing I'm curious about is that the TO99 metal versions are known to sound even better! but I thought the length of the legs was most critical?!

 some ppl solder them on DIP8 adapters for lot of $$$(still on ebay) and some other ppl just fit them somehow in the DIP8 holders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, once I'll have made up my mind on 4562 or 49720, I might fancy some metal versions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: AHMAGAD, the 4562 is mind blowing on Ed Rush's DNB...such a wide soundstage and detailed sound


----------



## 12Bass

Here's an example of an SOIC on a DIP socket.... best I could find with a short search.


----------



## 12Bass

Another set of pics from sijosae showing the SOIC -> DIP procedure:


----------



## leeperry

it's true that the 4562 is "dry"(it's only a few hours old, though), but the 2114 sounded distorted anyway...and all the micro-details that float "above the surface" are just very impressive(together w/ the HUGE soundstage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I personally like to wear correction glasses made of thick 1.5 mineral glass, because their resolution(Optical transfer function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is higher than my eyes..I can't stand plastic glasses, they feel blurry.

 it's the same thing, the 4562 sounds more detailed than my ears...love the feeling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could listen several times to the same track and hear different stuff, it sounds so highly refined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's funny when ppl tell you that every disc you listen to has gone through hundreds of 5532/2068 anyway, so there wouldn't be any point to use something better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS1:* I thought this saturation test was pointless because the sample were lofi to begin w/....but w/ a proper soundcard/op-amps, it's a lot more manageable : 





*PS2:* the Babel OST finally gives! w/ all these spanish guitars


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I've used the OPA211s and find them a bit more lively/open sounding compared to the National chips. They seem to "speak" better in the midrange, and have a more "organic" sound, while I find the Nationals (LM/LME) a bit dry sounding, IMO.

 I've used Browndog SOIC/DIP adapters in the past for duals (and still do for dual single SOIC to DIP). However, these days usually I just carefully splay out the SOIC pins and solder a dual SOIC device directly to a DIP socket. The inner four pins (2, 3, 6, 7) should be right on the edge of the DIP socket's inner holes, while you might need a small resistor lead or other piece of wire for the outer pins (1, 4, 5, 8). Just be careful with heat so the socket doesn't melt!_

 

I have to order a few of those this week and finish up my opamps modules I have been wanting to build. You reminded me I have to put a order in at brown dog.


----------



## scytheavatar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I've used the OPA211s and find them a bit more lively/open sounding compared to the National chips. They seem to "speak" better in the midrange, and have a more "organic" sound, while I find the Nationals (LM/LME) a bit dry sounding, IMO._

 

It's a case of synergy.... you are using the K702 and it's 'dry' by nature. Had you been using the AD2000 like me you'll certainly prefer the LME49720.


----------



## oqvist

isn´t lm4562 stock or?


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shogo33* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didnt get that chalk/cheese or night/day difference from this. I found that it sounded better without sharing the molex with other devices like the 120mm fans that i had connected to it. When i unplugged those fans and ran it without, it sounded clearer._

 

same for me.

 so nobody is experiencing a popping sound when switching from HP to 2 speakers in drivers?


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so nobody is experiencing a popping sound when switching from HP to 2 speakers in drivers?_

 

Not sure what you mean by popping, but I hear a short, high frequency tick.


----------



## dex85

thats what i meant, my english can be sloppy sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm concerned about how loud it is though, that it could affect the drivers in headphones after hundreds of switches. but i guess im just being a paranoid like i said earlier


----------



## Cynips

It's not loud enough to make me worry the least even though the hf energy certainly is subsantial. Also, it seems independent of my Win volume setting.


----------



## Harlin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another set of pics from sijosae showing the SOIC -> DIP procedure:




_

 

Wow that was creative...
 But if not careful enough, those pins might break...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isn´t lm4562 stock or?_

 

There are three opamps on the STX. Two are JRC2114D's and the other is a LM4562NA.

 He is changing the 2114D's to LM4562NA...


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, I did try the 49720...but I was using the ASIO drivers in foobar, and they stink big time! so at point, I put back the stock op-amps and was about it to call it a game and sell the card...when I remembered that KS was said to sound better, and it does! so I'll let the 4562 burn in for a few days, and I might very well try the 49720 again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the other op-amps are mostly SOIC8, I want something that just fits...w/o the huge markups from ppl who solder them on DIP8 adapters on ebay(and what if they mess up? I really don't wanna fry the card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 one thing I'm curious about is that the TO99 metal versions are known to sound even better! but I thought the length of the legs was most critical?!

 some ppl solder them on DIP8 adapters for lot of $$$(still on ebay) and some other ppl just fit them somehow in the DIP8 holders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, once I'll have made up my mind on 4562 or 49720, I might fancy some metal versions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: AHMAGAD, the 4562 is mind blowing on Ed Rush's DNB...such a wide soundstage and detailed sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ebay isnt your only choice for pre mounted op-amps,Cimarron technology sells pre mounted OPA827's and what not for 49 dollars.

 edit: Robscix is the OPA211 like the OPA2134 or some what diffent?


----------



## dex85

does anybody knows what is the headphone output impedance? i don't see it anywhere on the asus website. and does it change with different gains or remains constant?


----------



## leeperry

does this also require mad soldering skillz ? TO-99 to 8-pin DIP Adapter (p/n 020601B)

 and what about the legs length ?!

 and the ASIO drivers sound fine on the 4562....so maybe I missed something w/ the 49720 ?! or the card wasn't burned in, or I dunno


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does this also require mad soldering skillz ? TO-99 to 8-pin DIP Adapter (p/n 020601B)

 and what about the legs length ?!

 and the ASIO drivers sound fine on the 4562....so maybe I missed something w/ the 49720 ?! or the card wasn't burned in, or I dunno 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Those would work for the TO-99 to DIP8 footprint EXCEPT -you need dual channel modules for the STX...

 You could use two adapters. I am pretty sure there are dual TO99 to DIP8 adapters around somwhere..


----------



## leeperry

LME49720HA TO-99 is dual, and it fits in DIP8 if you bend the leads..but I think I'll go LM4562HA anyway!

 I've sent PM's to yoyolai, I'd like to get -even beta- bitperfect drivers ASAP...it's breaking my balls bigtime to change the samplerate manually 50 times a day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and why don't you compare the ST and STX in the same machine w/ 2 synchronized foobar in KS? you signed NDA's or sumthing?

 what's the resolution of the STX clock? sloppy drivers, sloppy marketing, sloppy timing


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

A few days ago I connected my vintage great american sound pre-amp thoebe to the xonar essence card. The first I figured out is the incredible good tube like sound whit great sound stage. I hear details that I did not expected. The essence as source does a very very good job. Its just nice to listen and enjoying it for hours. So now I really want a tube head amp!!!!! ) If you guys have some vintage devices, just turn them on!!! Maybe you get better sound as you expect. This old things have souls!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49720HA TO-99 is dual, and it fits in DIP8 if you bend the leads..but I think I'll go LM4562HA anyway!

 I've sent PM's to yoyolai, I'd like to get -even beta- bitperfect drivers ASAP...it's breaking my balls bigtime to change the samplerate manually 50 times a day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and why don't you compare the ST and STX in the same machine w/ 2 synchronized foobar in KS? you signed NDA's or sumthing?

 what's the resolution of the STX clock? sloppy drivers, sloppy marketing, sloppy timing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Most To-99 are single channel so it is good to double check. Your using these metal can opamps to get rid of any remaining EMI but when you install these
 you will not be able to reinstall the EMI sheild.


----------



## leeperry

ah dammit! this soundcard works perfectly fine in foobar/KS on XP SP3...but I can't get it to play movies w/o getting blue screens on the C-Media drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's a known issue :
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tnG=Search&lr=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...Player&spell=1

 apparently there's some incompatiblity w/ either Reclock, ffdshow audio or CoreAVC CUDA...ah well


----------



## ROBSCIX

I use KM player and had no issues playing any video with STX. Used DVD and files I also have many different codec installed including ffdshow.

 As for C-Media being a poor manufacturer, you have to consider that C-Media's chips have been at the heart of many of the best soundcards released in the past few years.


----------



## leeperry

still running tests, one component doesn't work as it should....maybe it's ffdshow after all, but cmudaxp.sys is often shown on BSOD's

 if I ever get it working, I will prolly put these burson op-amps on the I/V : http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm

 it'd require extensions cords, though..

 you've never used any professional soundcard apparently, you won't find C-Media on real gear...it's a consumer brand(mobo chip yadayada)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_still running tests, one component doesn't work as it should....maybe it's ffdshow after all, but cmudaxp.sys is often shown on BSOD's_

 

Never seen it hang for movies. remove them and reinstall them one at a time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if I ever get it working, I will prolly put these burson op-amps on the I/V : ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 it'd require extensions cords, though..
 you've never used any professional soundcard apparently, you won't find C-Media on real gear...it's a consumer brand(mobo chip yadayada)_

 

Again, you have zero clue what I have used or not used or what gear I own or do not own. 

 We are talking about consumer soundcards as that is the topic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On real gear, so your STX soundcard is fake?

 If your looking for Burson Discrete Opamps, here is the link: Burson

 Audio-GD sells discrete units also, some say certain model is the same as Burson unit and others disagree.


----------



## leeperry

yeah, these are 50% cheaper...they can't quite sound 50% worse I think, but the LM4562 sound awesome anyway ^^

 I might try to install the previous drivers package..

 BTW, yoyolai has told me that his drivers engineering team is working on the Win7 drivers, but the bitmatched XP drivers are definitely on schedule!


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Hello
 I was looking around for some op-amps to improve the already awsome sound of this card and came across this little chip LT1115 and I don't think I have read that any of you have tried it and was wondering if it would work well? I was considering it mainly for the buffer...


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello
 I was looking around for some op-amps to improve the already awsome sound of this card and came across this little chip LT1115 and I don't think I have read that any of you have tried it and was wondering if it would work well? I was considering it mainly for the buffer..._

 

It looks like you're using the headphone out on your essence. If so , changing the buffer will do nothing for you.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

I'm using the line out for my stereo; Onkyo 9355->Mordaunt Short 906i...

 Edit: But I would consider them in the I/V if they are suitable...


----------



## Bojamijams

Ah okay, nvm then..


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you've never used any professional soundcard apparently..._

 

And neither have you. Atleast you've never made actual WORK with them. I don't know how you've configured your computer but from the sounds of it, not very well.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And neither have you. Atleast you've never made actual WORK with them. I don't know how you've configured your computer but from the sounds of it, not very well._

 

I don't do trolls, sorry.

 anyway on XP SP3, AC3Filter = random reboot....CoreAVC CUDA = instant BSOD(it all worked perfectly fine w/ my previous M-Audio/Echo Digital cards)

 luckily ffdshow audio/video > HR/Reclock in KMP seem to work fine...lucky me I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the AC3filter problem is well documented, the C-Media drivers just blow!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tnG=Search&lr=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...Player&spell=1

 consumer drivers at their worst, ever.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello
 I was looking around for some op-amps to improve the already awsome sound of this card and came across this little chip LT1115 and I don't think I have read that any of you have tried it and was wondering if it would work well? I was considering it mainly for the buffer..._

 

I have some here, I tried them but never noticed any major improvments. I am just looking over my notes. There are some notes awhile back that a few guys posted related to opamp testing.
 The first two opamps the JRC 2114D's are the I/V converter section they affect the sound signature of both line outs and headphone out.

 The LM4562NA is a single ended buffer and it affects the line outs only.

 The best way to find out is to try it. The linear brand opamps are very good and some swear by them for many applications.


----------



## leeperry

BTW, I'm using Volumouse to set the master volume...it's really fantastic!

 whatever foobar/KS or KMP/Reclock+KS, you can just push the left button ANYWHERE and use the mousewheel to set the master volume :





 really fantastic stuff!

 the card works fine in foobar/KS(except that I have to change the samplerate in the drivers 50 times a day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...if it stops crashing in KMP and provided that we do get bitmatched XP drivers, I might very well enjoy it at some point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yoyolai said the drivers were going through some major changes, so I'll be indulgent..this card is only 6 months old! w/ some software polishing, it might become really mind blowing


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been testing with the STX and AC3 filter works fine as does FFDshow.
 Not sure why your getitng BSOD's...


----------



## leeperry

try CoreAVC CUDA on XP SP3 if you dare!


----------



## ROBSCIX

..so now your saying the issue is not with AC3 filter?


----------



## leeperry

AC3filter works perfectly fine on all the soundcards, it only gives reboots/BSOD's w/ Asus drivers....and CoreAVC CUDA does the exact thing.

 now why is it crashing? because AC3Filter & CoreAVC CUDA(that work perfectly fine w/ other soundcards) are poorly coded? or because the C-Media drivers stink?

 anyway, ffdshow appears to work fine, I'll leave it at that...hopefully the next drivers package will allow me to use AC3Filter/CoreAVC CUDA in bitmatched mode, then I'll be delighted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand developing drivers is not child's play


----------



## ROBSCIX

As I said AC3filter and FFDshow seem to work fine for me, Nobody else around here has seemed to post anything about this issue either. Players and filters can get tricky especially when you start installing a bunch of different version of various codecs. Troubleshooting them can be a pain if you have issues or conflicts with Codecs and/or filters.

 In all honesty, you keep complaining about the card. Before and after the purchase, maybe returning it to the store and buying a nice Creative card as you suggested would be the best idea for you. With a creative card you will have everything you wanted as you said.

 Why stay with a product your not happy with?


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello
 I was looking around for some op-amps to improve the already awsome sound of this card and came across this little chip LT1115 and I don't think I have read that any of you have tried it and was wondering if it would work well? I was considering it mainly for the buffer..._

 

hi, please let me know if you consider any opamps to be an improvement over stock with your K701. i don't feel like experimenting. with my luck it would take dozens opamps to actually find better synergy over stock


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, please let me know if you consider any opamps to be an improvement over stock with your K701. i don't feel like experimenting. with my luck it would take dozens opamps to actually find better synergy over stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you tested any opamps yet?


----------



## dex85

not yet, i want headphones to have at least 300 hours before i do. even then, it would be easier to experiment if i had some hint what opamps sounds good with K701. not that i consider stock opamps to sound bad with my cans, quite the opposite


----------



## leeperry

I won't return the card, coz yoyolai said he would take my GUI suggestions in account, and also offer bit-perfect XP drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it sounds great! just a PITA to play videos on it w/o getting BSOD's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you prolly don't use Reclock or realtime Avisynth scripts(and being such a cool guy as you are, I presume you're running Vista), so don't take your own experience as the start all/end all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and anyway Creative seem no better drivers-wise : Customer Reviews Of Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series 70SB088600007 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express Interface Sound Card - Retail

 6 months is very short to get proper drivers, I'll be patient! and prolly buy the ST when it's out anyway..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not yet, i want headphones to have at least 300 hours before i do. even then, it would be easier to experiment if i had some hint what opamps sounds good with K701. not that i consider stock opamps to sound bad with my cans, quite the opposite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Might be better to ask another who is using those cans as they might have some suggestions for units that fit the response of the cans a bit better. Try units that have better specifications all around.


----------



## leeperry

to get back on the ST that has supposedly 31% less jitter on 44.1KHz....here's some food for thoughts(maybe that's the reason why mister rob6 didn't do some ABX between the ST/STX...I hear some of you whisper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

Is jitter audible? The jitter test 2. | Welcome to HDD audio

The second jitter test is online. (Page 4) - Equipment - HDD Audio Forum

  Quote:


 This one is difficult. Did you try the first one? It's easier.

 Hearing this with headphones will be difficult. Need good stereo imaging, not between your ears. 
 

 Quote:


 The idea was to show that even when jitter is present at levels much higher than we expect in practice, it is extremely difficult to detect. 
 

I might grab the ST coz PCI would be far more convenient in my case, but don't really expect the lower jitter to be any audible...especially on cans.


----------



## ROBSCIX

(maybe LeePerry IS a troll I here some of you whisper)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might grab the ST coz PCI would be far more convenient in my case, but don't really expect the lower jitter to be any audible...especially on cans._

 

Then why do you keep asking for a comparison?

 When you save your allowance and buy a ST, do a comparison.

 When I get a ST (Mass Production version) perhaps I will do a comparison.


----------



## leeperry

my allowance? lol, the damn thing is not even available in HK shops at this point!

 you got both cards, why don't you ABX them? instead of pushing F5 here on head-fi every 30" hoping that someone posted, so you can show us how knowledgeable you are about computer audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if Asus sent these prototypes to a homeless guy that always hangs around in my neighbourhood, they'd be getting more instructional feedback than from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's amazing how sending free samples to review sites makes them dedicated to your cause! very impressive.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my allowance? lol, the damn thing is not even available in HK shops at this point!

 you got both cards, why don't you ABX them? instead of pushing F5 here on head-fi every 30" hoping that someone posted, so you can show us how knowledgeable you are about computer audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if Asus sent these prototypes to a homeless guy that always hangs around in my neighbourhood, they'd be getting more instructional feedback than from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's amazing how sending free samples to review sites makes them dedicated to your cause! very impressive._

 

You are easily the most annoying troll I've come across in any forums let alone these. The funny thing is you keep calling other people what you are yourself and what you do yourself.

 Rob has contributed greatly to these forums, so please refrain from bashing respected members here in your posts, especially when you have nothing to contribute here except complaints and problems that noone but yourself seems to be having.


----------



## sonci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my allowance? lol, the damn thing is not even available in HK shops at this point!

 you got both cards, why don't you ABX them? instead of pushing F5 here on head-fi every 30" hoping that someone posted, so you can show us how knowledgeable you are about computer audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if Asus sent these prototypes to a homeless guy that always hangs around in my neighbourhood, they'd be getting more instructional feedback than from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's amazing how sending free samples to review sites makes them dedicated to your cause! very impressive._

 

You`re my hero, keep it up..


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, please let me know if you consider any opamps to be an improvement over stock with your K701. i don't feel like experimenting. with my luck it would take dozens opamps to actually find better synergy over stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi, my K701s are brand new as well, burning them in at the moment, so I might not be the best source for impressions on how different op-amps affect the sound of these babies. That said, I will still order some different op-amps and try a few different configs. 

 These are the ones I will be trying first (I don't want to start soldering just jet, and these are the only ones i can order easily in my own country) 
 OPA2134
 LM4562
 LM6172
 LT1115


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dex, I would also add the OPA2107's and LME49720 to that list. Both are great unit on this card according to all the testing done on this card by the owners in this thread.

 If your using cans, you will require two of each unit to change out the JRC 2114D's which make up the I/V converter circuit. 
 Don't worry about the LM4562 on the card as it is not used with headphones it is bypassed in favor of the TI TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier chip. If you are using the line outs to power an external headphone amplifier then you may aconsider changing the LM4562NA buffer also...


----------



## dex85

^^yeah, for time being i'm going to play around just with I/V ones. i'm planning on buying Heed CanAmp later in the year, so i can use cans in the living room as well. so eventually i'll try some other opamps in the buffer too. btw, i'm curious how TI amp will compare against CanAmp, i'll make some mini-review then. but it won't be any time soon.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, my K701s are brand new as well, burning them in at the moment, so I might not be the best source for impressions on how different op-amps affect the sound of these babies. That said, I will still order some different op-amps and try a few different configs. 

 These are the ones I will be trying first (I don't want to start soldering just jet, and these are the only ones i can order easily in my own country) 
 OPA2134
 LM4562
 LM6172
 LT1115_

 

i'm looking forward to your impressions of them


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You`re my hero, keep it up.._

 

hah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all I can say is that I'll do my best so we get perfect drivers...to match the perfect hardware 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Asus has come a long way in a few months on the STX, and they're willing to take my feedback in account...so it might end up "perfect" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Asus doesn't allow me to disclose any further details in public threads, but too many soundcards are pointless because of poorly written drivers(like the 0404USB that has a fixed samplerate in the drivers, badly written ASIO drivers that need to be reselected after each reboot in foobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and no DirectKS drivers! so no bit-perfect Reclock possible on XP).

 w/ a bit of tweaking, the Essence soundcards will reach perfection(hardware is already achieved, so minor software tweaking is needed at this point) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* I hope Asus will send review samples to ixbtlabs.com/xbitlabs.com, at least these guys really test the cards...they don't simply say "ahmagad, it's awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/multimedia/asus-d2.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mul...sus-xonar.html


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^yeah, for time being i'm going to play around just with I/V ones. i'm planning on buying Heed CanAmp later in the year, so i can use cans in the living room as well. so eventually i'll try some other opamps in the buffer too. btw, i'm curious how TI amp will compare against CanAmp, i'll make some mini-review then. but it won't be any time soon.

 i'm looking forward to your impressions of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The TI chip amp is good quality considering the price of the soundcard, IMO. 

 There are quite a few great opamp units people universally find a good bet for a upgrade.
 If you want to get funky with your tests you can always try the discrete opamp units.

 Post your impression here after you do your tests with your gear.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 will help people looking for opamps suggestions.


----------



## VykRO

I finally bought the STX. I installed it rapidly and unfortunatelly my initial assumpltion was confirmed: I don't have sound via HDMI. I disabled the onboard soundcard and powered the STX with a spare Molex. I have sound (headphone) but eventhough I read the manual/played with the software/Windows sound config, no positive result.

 Solutions ?

 I observed that the STX becomes really HOT. On the verge of impossibility to keep yourd hands on the card (on the EMI shielding to be more precise). The board is installed in a miniPC (mini ITX) but there are plenty of ventilation holes above the STX *thankfully, I do not want to imagine the case without them - extreme trouble for STX). Is it normal such a high operating temperature? I'm thinking about summer temps! And the board is parallel with mobo (via Pri Express 1x flexible riser)....so cooling is affected by this orientation (hot air trapped under the mobo). I-m givind real thoughts of mounting a fan under the STX!

 As the board is new it needs a bur-in. I'm not exactly an audiofile but even with an old (8-10years) Trevi HP I found improvements in the sound. I should have made a coparison with integrated sound+HP or at leat my desktop Audigy 2 + HP but now STX sound so cool! Sound more lively, clear...STX sound.


----------



## Funky-kun

When operating far from heat sources, the card keeps absolutely cool. In a case relatively far away from 9800gx2 (1 PCI-E x16 in between) the card gets mildly warm from the heat (9800gx2 easily reaches 100 c). In a case right next to a normal 9800, it gets pretty hot, due to the hot air blowing near it. I guess the shielding picks up the heat easily. I doubt such temperatures are dangerous for the card though.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Guys! 
 I know this is not the right tread for my question but its about opamps!!
 I have a essence whit descrete opamps connected to an old gas preamp. 
 Yesterday I opened the preamp to see what is in there and I found a real interesting design. There are four opamps DIP MOTOROLA MC1458CP1. They can be easy replaced. But now is the question can I put four LME49720 in there? Today I measured Vs or V+ and V- of opamp and the Vs is 32.5 V !!! In the datasheet of MC1458cp1 the power supply range is max +-18 V!!! Please need an advice???


----------



## 12Bass

Are you measuring 32.5V across pins 4 and 8, or are you seeing 32.5V between each pin and ground? 32.5V across both pins probably means +-16.25V rails, which is pretty normal.

 As for the chip, the MC1458 is a rather old chip which may mean that there is a potential benefit from moving to something higher performance like the LM/LME series. However, there are a couple of cautions. One is potential oscillations, which can usually be mitigated with careful supply bypassing using a small capacitor between each power pin and ground. The other issue is current consumption. The MC1458 draws 2.3 mA, while the LME49720 uses 10 mA quiescent current, which may cause a strain on the power supply if it is not overdesigned.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Across pin 4 and 8 is 32.5V! Here you can see the shema of the preamp:
http://www.davidsaudio.com/GAS_Thoebe_Manual0001.pdf
 Please look at it!
 Really thanks!


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MC1458 draws 2.3 mA, while the LME49720 uses 10 mA quiescent current, which may cause a strain on the power supply if it is not overdesigned._

 

so going LME49720 is a drop-in replacement for the stock JRC2114D? because apparently the line-in is not very well designed on the STX : ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Protect the Line In of your Xonar from overloading

 I'm kinda scared to plug my game consoles line-outs tbh, and because my phones plug is at the back of the computer, I cannot access it either


----------



## audionewbieyao

I just read it through.
 The article was about protecting the card from "overspec" inputs, if you propoerly use normail line level input there will never be any reason for the card to be damaged.

 I wouldn't say it's not well designed, it's just he worried too much.


----------



## leeperry

well yeah, but the other guy connected a RIAA phono pre-amp..and these things output line out level AFAIK ?!

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Speaker hiss when connecting to line-in

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Recommended Input Clamping Circuit to ASUS Xonar R&D Team


----------



## audionewbieyao

Wow.. I just got the latest MAXIAM PC magazine, and Xonar Essence STX's got a "*Kick Ass*" award.

 Tho it's just a short review, but still glad to see a sound card review in a mainstream magazine.


----------



## dex85

it would be better to see a review from a magazine that is strictly audio oriented, like Stereophile. but i doubt those old fashioned guys would review any internal card.


----------



## VykRO

I installed this soundcard in a miniITX system and there is no dedicated video card. The card is next to the mainboard in an uncrowdy and cool place. Thats why I am a little bit confused about the temp being so high. It seems really necessary to place an exhaust fan nearby - this on the background of ventilation holes above the board! My feeling is that the horisontal orientation of the board makes cooling less effective (hot air trapped under the board).

 I think I have the solution for the audio via HDMI proble...my Samsung A659 lcd has a special hdmi input that has a linked stereo RCA input. That should solve the problem...more cables but at least I can whatch movies...

 This is a temporary setup as the PC will become a carPC this summer...that's why I am worried about internal temps.


----------



## ckirkby3

I dont think many people in this thread have touched on it but although the card is of extremely high quality audio wise. The asio latency for recording is absolutely horrendous. The marketing quotes about the amazing low latency asio drivers but when i attempt to record my recording is extremely delayed and thats with it set to 20ms (10ms gives me a funny distorted crackle in my recordings and 20ms is the next stage down). For this reason my STX is going back where I bought it and I'm getting a forte (as lovely as the sound from the Essence is i simply cannnot put up with that, and its silly having two cards) therefore I think a dedicated headphone amp might be in order and i shall connect it to the line out of the card. Any recommendations on dedicated headphone amps guys (do you think that will be necessary?) (will it enable me to reap the benefits of changing the opamp and still using my headphones with the changed opamp, as opposed to running through the built in headphone amp). The headset I am currently using are the AKG HSC 271's. 

 Also can anyone comment on the recording latency of the forte. I believe it can go as low as 0ms? If thats the case I believe the forte is my only other option, sadly.

 look forward to hearing from you guys about suggestions etc. Thanks


----------



## leeperry

prolly the PCI-E bridge is playing tricks on ya, you might be more lucky w/ the PCI version...that's bound to show up in shops anytime soon.

 the X-Fi drivers don't have fantastic ASIO drivers either I think..

 0ms latency is not going to happen, you should definitely lower your expectations


----------



## ckirkby3

i cant use pci mate... ive only got a board that supports pci express card so thats a no no lol. all i know is its worse than my onboard used to be, im pretty sure its lying about the 20ms, and i read somewhere that its actually somewhere around 500ms.

 9ms would be good for me, i wonder if someone could get a ****ty mic and record on the forte singing to some music or something, and just check if its in time...


----------



## leeperry

this is a consumer soundcard, if you want very low latency you might be better served w/ cards from TC Electronics, Lexicon or M-Audio...but you know that


----------



## ckirkby3

yes i do know that my last card was an m-audio but im trying to kill two birds with one stone here best of both worlds and for the price they are charging i expect a decent latency and hope someone can tell me if the forte does have


----------



## Bojamijams

Now that I have a proper desktop amp (M3+S11) I have to say, the amp on the board is not a bad little piece of IC work. The M3+S11 is clearly better but if you don't have the money to spring for it, don't worry about it, the onboard amp is doing a pretty good job. 

 This is with RS-1's and ESW10JPN's which are relatively efficient (the AT more so) but the RS-1's are clearly benefitting from the increased current available on the M3+S11 combo


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckirkby3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont think many people in this thread have touched on it but although the card is of extremely high quality audio wise. The asio latency for recording is absolutely horrendous. The marketing quotes about the amazing low latency asio drivers but when i attempt to record my recording is extremely delayed and thats with it set to 20ms (10ms gives me a funny distorted crackle in my recordings and 20ms is the next stage down). For this reason my STX is going back where I bought it and I'm getting a forte (as lovely as the sound from the Essence is i simply cannnot put up with that, and its silly having two cards) therefore I think a dedicated headphone amp might be in order and i shall connect it to the line out of the card. Any recommendations on dedicated headphone amps guys (do you think that will be necessary?) (will it enable me to reap the benefits of changing the opamp and still using my headphones with the changed opamp, as opposed to running through the built in headphone amp). The headset I am currently using are the AKG HSC 271's. 

 Also can anyone comment on the recording latency of the forte. I believe it can go as low as 0ms? If thats the case I believe the forte is my only other option, sadly.

 look forward to hearing from you guys about suggestions etc. Thanks_

 


 What are your system specs? you should be able to get very low latency ASIO recording with the STX. Very strange.


----------



## ckirkby3

I have an ASUS p6t6 workstation board, core i7 920 cpu, 6gb of corsair ddr3 1600mhz, im pretty sure the system isnt causing the latency issues....


----------



## laobrasuca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(maybe LeePerry IS a troll I here some of you whisper)



 Then why do you keep asking for a comparison?

 When you save your allowance and buy a ST, do a comparison.

 When I get a ST (Mass Production version) perhaps I will do a comparison._

 

any clue on the price? I've been reading something like 400 USD, is it any official? In case yes, it corresponds to the main card only or does it include the H6 DAC expansion card in this price? I really can't see why the ST alone would be the double the STX is...

 lao


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any clue on the price? I've been heading something like 400 USD, it's it any official? In case yes, I corresponds to the main card only or does it include the H6 DAC expansion card in this price? I really can't see why the ST alone would be the double the STX is...

 lao_

 

Nothing official, however I wouldn't think it would be much more then the STX as the card is only being released with the base card according to press information.
 With the H6 DAC board to follow for those interested.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that I have a proper desktop amp (M3+S11) I have to say, the amp on the board is not a bad little piece of IC work. The M3+S11 is clearly better but if you don't have the money to spring for it, don't worry about it, the onboard amp is doing a pretty good job. 

 This is with RS-1's and ESW10JPN's which are relatively efficient (the AT more so) but the RS-1's are clearly benefitting from the increased current available on the M3+S11 combo_

 

Your right, when you consider the end price of the card and the fact you get a high quality DAC and a high power headphone amplifier this is great piece of tech for those looking for some great sound with a limited budget.

 There are of course some better sounding amplifiers out there as you suggested but they are much more money and you only get ampliifer in most cases.


----------



## leeperry

except that a 1ppm clock costs like $30 on ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hopefully the ST won't cost an additional $50....yoyolai told me that it was shipping to distributors as we speak, yet it's still unavailable in HK shops


----------



## laobrasuca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..yoyolai told me that it was shipping to distributors as we speak, yet it's still unavailable in HK shops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

couldn't him comment about the price? xD

 And, any of you think they will one day do drivers for Mac OS since new Mac OS hardware has Windows like hardware architecture now? It would be nice for all Mac Pro and hackintosh users out there xD


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_couldn't him comment about the price? xD

 And, any of you think they will one day do drivers for Mac OS since new Mac OS hardware has Windows like hardware architecture now? It would be nice for all Mac Pro and hackintosh users out there xD_

 

I have further information:

 The price is set locally for each area using the MSRP. The word is the price will not be that much more then the STX. The cards are on the way to official reviewers around the world and being sent to shops in Europe and the US.

 The first release will not offer the H6 DAC board as was suggested in the original sneak peak however, the H6 board should be avilable around Q3.


----------



## laobrasuca

please let us know when you (or one of your fellows) got a full review on the ST.

 lao


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckirkby3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an ASUS p6t6 workstation board, core i7 920 cpu, 6gb of corsair ddr3 1600mhz, im pretty sure the system isnt causing the latency issues...._

 

Actually it could be although I'm not saying it is. While that's obviously a fast computer the P6T6 WS uses additional NVidia NF200 bridge chips chips besides the Intel ICH10R Southbridge to manage to have so many PCIe lanes available. If you're using it in one of the non-ICH10R PCIe slots there's no telling what kind of latency the additional PCIe controller is adding. I would at least look in to which slots are connected directly to the ICH10R Southbridge (if any) and which go through the additional PCIe controller and be sure to try both.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_please let us know when you (or one of your fellows) got a full review on the ST.

 lao_

 

Review cards should be on their way to reveiwers. 
 Hopefully I get a chance to review one of the MP versions.


----------



## VykRO

Until full reviews are available you can check this article out:

ASUS Xonar Essence ST Sneak Preview | test


----------



## laobrasuca

thx VykRO, but I had triple checked this one already


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thx VykRO, but I had triple checked this one already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What info are you looking for?


----------



## VykRO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thx VykRO, but I had triple checked this one already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry, initially I forgot about the article (I read it myselft some weeks ago). I was reading the Computex 2009 coverage on Guru3D and found the link....

 I wonder what the difference between ST and HDAV Deluxe will be (from 5.1 sound point of view) since they will share the expansion board. I will buiuldf a new PC (HTPC this time) still using Mini ITX and have only one expansion port - it's not PCI unfortunatelly...good mobo thsese days have less (if any) PCI expansion ports... not to mention mini ITX!!!


----------



## laobrasuca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What info are you looking for?_

 

nothing too serious, just more reading


----------



## ROBSCIX

Off the top of me head, The ST has high quality DAC for the front channels aswell as the improved clocking circuit and headphone amplifier.


----------



## leeperry

10 days ago, xbitlabs put a serious review of the STX up on their website : Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review - X-bit labs

 they agree that the headphones output sounds better than the line out(apparently, many ppl use it to go to their external headphones amp)...they also wonder why they put lousy 2114D stock to begin w/ and a few other glitches.

 I personally wonder why the card doesn't switch the samplerate automatically in ASIO/KS/WASAPI, it's funny that xbitlabs mentioned it in their D2 review 13 months ago but not for the STX.

 also, apparently you can't have 2 Xonar cards in the same machine simultaneously, so running ST/STX DBT on my system won't be possible...


----------



## leeperry

they also say that the higher the headphones impedance, the lower the distortion on the TI headphones amp...I thought that was worth mentioning! I'll read the datasheet one of these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they also have a test of the Forte 7.1 available, and will release it in the next coming days...and I have yet to read a review of the HT Claro Halo, this one has swappable op-amps, the same amp as the STX, the AK4396 "magic DAC" and it's PCI....it would appear to be good stuff!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Ah, it was called the "Miracle DAC" and that was about 5 years ago.


----------



## leeperry

yeah miracle/magic, many ppl are still crazy about it.

 and the DAC that's on the STX was built in 2004 :







 so it's not exactly "new" either...the Forte 7.1 has a JRC4580 on the headphones amp and the RMMA results are bad, but the HT Claro Halo still has the benefit of the doubt.

 the DAC on the STX supports 64X oversampling(not to be mixed w/ resampling) but apparently Asus didn't force it...it'd run at the default 8X.


----------



## genclaymore

If the DAc looks like that, I wonder what would happen if you take the org DAC out its socket and put another one in it place.


----------



## Bojamijams

the dac is not socketed.. its soldered on. And you most likely cannot put in something even if you were silly enough to desolder the original ones as the pins don't always mean the same things between manufacturers of DAC IC's


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the Forte 7.1 has a JRC4580 on the headphones amp and the RMMA results are bad, but the HT Claro Halo still has the benefit of the doubt._

 

I think your in the wrong thread. This is the STX thread.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the DAc looks like that, I wonder what would happen if you take the org DAC out its socket and put another one in it place._

 

The type of DAC aswell as pin outs and other factors vary quite a bit from company to company.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think your in the wrong thread. This is the STX thread._

 

dang, you're right! I initially thought that I was on playboy.com


----------



## leeperry

BTW, someone mentioned on the official Asus forum that you can hack the new ST drivers to work on ANY other Asus soundcard...and that's quite true


----------



## Bojamijams

What do the new drivers do?


----------



## leeperry

quite honestly, I think the SQ is better(maybe they've finally implemented 128X oversampling?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but maybe it's a bad case of placebo...at least they don't sound worse and they're 2 months newer.

 still no "automatic samplerate" though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: I still cannot play 192Khz stereo in foobar/KS, I get a hell lot of background noise...luckily 44.1/48/96KHz play fine if I select the right samplerate in the drivers


----------



## telefragd

This may have been answered before but anyway...

 I'm using the STX with my ATH-AD900 connected to headphone output. I play music with MediaMonkey using the KS plugin. Volume is maxed in the Xonar control panel as well as MediaMonkey (as expected neither have any effect) and I control the volume of the onboard amp with Windows (Windows 7) volume control. 

 Is this right way to go about it?


----------



## genclaymore

Either manaully make it 100% in the windows sound control, or set the compabilty for the xonar center to Vista. Then it will let you use the volume knob.

 Lee I been doing stuff like that back when I had a Razer Barracuda when Razer didnt seem to care about vista.


----------



## fine art acoustic

hi together, i didn't here anything further about sound upgrade Burson Audio Opamp. A lot of peaople want to write there listining expirience but nobody seem to write something about it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_quite honestly, I think the SQ is better(maybe they've finally implemented 128X oversampling?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but maybe it's a bad case of placebo...at least they don't sound worse and they're 2 months newer.

 still no "automatic samplerate" though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: I still cannot play 192Khz stereo in foobar/KS, I get a hell lot of background noise...luckily 44.1/48/96KHz play fine if I select the right samplerate in the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It really has nothing to do with Hacking, adding a id should do it.
 At their base they are pretty much all the same driver. With only differences being features native to each card.
 You mentioned "unified drivers" These drivers are basically all unified. Check the folders and you see all the components for every card version.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fine art acoustic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi together, i didn't here anything further about sound upgrade Burson Audio Opamp. A lot of peaople want to write there listining expirience but nobody seem to write something about it._

 

hi, how is the 2x4562 in the i/v section working with your K701? any benefits or drawbacks compared to stock opamps? i have 2xlme49720 on the way, which should sound similar to 4562, so im quite interested what you think. thanks


----------



## fine art acoustic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, how is the 2x4562 in the i/v section working with your K701? any benefits or drawbacks compared to stock opamps? i have 2xlme49720 on the way, which should sound similar to 4562, so im quite interested what you think. thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok i will trie it even in that case that my English is not good anoth. First of all the dynamic in details is far better (better worked out) aswell the precise in the full freqenz spektrum is better. Lost quitt a little of warmness (just a feeling) as i can remember. Over all for my ears its an improvment.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Hello
 I am considering going discrete with the essence and I'm checking up on the Burson and audio-gd's Earth, Sun v2 and Moon. 

 From the review of the audio-gd OPAs by majkel (and the discussion that followed) it seems that the Sun v2 is the best of the three, but became a much greater opamp when the power was increased to +/- 15 V while the Earth and Moon were driven suficiently with +/- 12 V. 

 The previous version of burson is as far as I can tell from reviews just a relabled earth with a bump in the price. The new burson seems more difficult to mount and i have not found any good comparisons between the new and old one. In a comparison with OPA Sun V2 it was said to be more resolved but over all similar.

 I was wondering wich of these would be the best fit for the essence, considering i would like to keep the somewhat warm signature of the card as it really brings life to my K701s. The Bursons seem to be easier to order but has the disadvantage of price and soldering while the audio-gd's are cheaper but it is a bit scary to order directly from China. Audio-GD has a cap to the circuit while it seems the Burson need this adition to sound its best.

 So to sum up, my questions are:
 Is it easy to mount the new bursons on the essence and are there significant benefits from mounting caps with the op-amp?

 Should I use a combination of different op-amps or three of the same kind (Buffer: sun V2 IV: Moon)?

 Will the bursons have enough power as the STX only supplies the the minimum voltage?

 Is the soundstage of the head-out removed in the same manner with Earth/Moon/Sun as was reported with the burson?

 I have read through this thread and several others but I find so many conflicting impressions that it is hard to decide what to go for so any help with making up my mind is greatly appreciated.


----------



## fine art acoustic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello
 I am considering going discrete with the essence and I'm checking up on the Burson and audio-gd's Earth, Sun v2 and Moon. 

 From the review of the audio-gd OPAs by majkel (and the discussion that followed) it seems that the Sun v2 is the best of the three, but became a much greater opamp when the power was increased to +/- 15 V while the Earth and Moon were driven suficiently with +/- 12 V. 

 The previous version of burson is as far as I can tell from reviews just a relabled earth with a bump in the price. The new burson seems more difficult to mount and i have not found any good comparisons between the new and old one. In a comparison with OPA Sun V2 it was said to be more resolved but over all similar.

 I was wondering wich of these would be the best fit for the essence, considering i would like to keep the somewhat warm signature of the card as it really brings life to my K701s. The Bursons seem to be easier to order but has the disadvantage of price and soldering while the audio-gd's are cheaper but it is a bit scary to order directly from China. Audio-GD has a cap to the circuit while it seems the Burson need this adition to sound its best.

 So to sum up, my questions are:
 Is it easy to mount the new bursons on the essence and are there significant benefits from mounting caps with the op-amp?

 Should I use a combination of different op-amps or three of the same kind (Buffer: sun V2 IV: Moon)?

 Will the bursons have enough power as the STX only supplies the the minimum voltage?

 Is the soundstage of the head-out removed in the same manner with Earth/Moon/Sun as was reported with the burson?

 I have read through this thread and several others but I find so many conflicting impressions that it is hard to decide what to go for so any help with making up my mind is greatly appreciated._

 

I'am interested on this also. But from the principel what i coudt read every where sems that the monn works good in the Buffer stage (tube like sound) makes sence for me. The Sun2 called brighter than the Monn with more dynamics shot be a good choice for the i/v spot. But this is just a feeling until nobody tested it you never will know.


----------



## fine art acoustic

What i missed to tell. Your very likely right with the Voltage on the Sun2. Perhaps the Earth insted of the Sun2 in the i/v spot


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello
 I am considering going discrete with the essence and I'm checking up on the Burson and audio-gd's Earth, Sun v2 and Moon. 

 From the review of the audio-gd OPAs by majkel (and the discussion that followed) it seems that the Sun v2 is the best of the three, but became a much greater opamp when the power was increased to +/- 15 V while the Earth and Moon were driven suficiently with +/- 12 V. 

 The previous version of burson is as far as I can tell from reviews just a relabled earth with a bump in the price. The new burson seems more difficult to mount and i have not found any good comparisons between the new and old one. In a comparison with OPA Sun V2 it was said to be more resolved but over all similar.

 I was wondering wich of these would be the best fit for the essence, considering i would like to keep the somewhat warm signature of the card as it really brings life to my K701s. The Bursons seem to be easier to order but has the disadvantage of price and soldering while the audio-gd's are cheaper but it is a bit scary to order directly from China. Audio-GD has a cap to the circuit while it seems the Burson need this adition to sound its best.

 So to sum up, my questions are:
 Is it easy to mount the new bursons on the essence and are there significant benefits from mounting caps with the op-amp?

 Should I use a combination of different op-amps or three of the same kind (Buffer: sun V2 IV: Moon)?

 Will the bursons have enough power as the STX only supplies the the minimum voltage?

 Is the soundstage of the head-out removed in the same manner with Earth/Moon/Sun as was reported with the burson?

 I have read through this thread and several others but I find so many conflicting impressions that it is hard to decide what to go for so any help with making up my mind is greatly appreciated._

 


 I have three new bursons opamps whit mundorf caps and are sounding wonderful clear, dynamic and natural.
 About the power supply would say there is no problem. Maybe they would sound even better whit higher voltage! Dont know!
 I did not compare the bursons to any other discrete opamps but for my taste its just as I like it.The sound is punchy, dynamic, natural and clear!
 The bursons opamps improved whit a good cap. I added a 1uf m-cap!
 Also the time is an factor. They have 300+ h of operation on so they more open up.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Thanks for the replies. I am going to order a Sun V2 for the Buffer and two Earths for IV after some more research and much appreciated help from Rob. According to him there was no problem with voltage and this was his recomendation. The OPAs have been redesigned with a cap so that problem is a non-issue. I will post my impressions after I receive my units and they've had appropriate burn-in, although I don't understand what could possibly change in a circuit of semi-conductors with prolonged use, the only thing would be that they heat up after some time, but this would happen every time they are used.


----------



## fine art acoustic

Today i orderd 2 x Sun2, 2 x Moon, 2 x Earth


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fine art acoustic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today i orderd 2 x Sun2, 2 x Moon, 2 x Earth_

 

Excuse me, may I ask what exactly that is ?


----------



## Bonthouse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me, may I ask what exactly that is ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Opamps!


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Opamps!_

 

Sorry ,i'm new to this field but I never knew that OPAMPs had English names too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any Model no. or links for reference
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry ,i'm new to this field but I never knew that OPAMPs had English names too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any Model no. or links for reference
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks_

 

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 And that's not gibberish, it's a link


----------



## Ansh

Well, I'm confused
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPA-SUN1.jpg
 Does it mean that I need to install such a large thing on my sound card as an OPAMP, when a LME49720 could be just 100 times smaller?
 Am I getting it correct?


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Yes
 The LME49720 is a chip op-amp and the audio-gd ones concists of discrete components. Discrete units has the advantage of heat dissapation and are less affected by EMI and RMI. A discrete OP-Amp also produces a better sound than most chip amps as most chip amps are not made strictly for audio purposes. The main disadvantage is that the EMI-shield can't be used and extension leads has to be used as they will hang upside down under the card. 

 You can find alot of information regarding this on audio-gd's homepage and from searching this forum, the discrete units are also mentioned in this thread on several pages and with some very nice pictures by GWorlDofSPACE using Burson OPAs with caps.


----------



## fine art acoustic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm confused
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPA-SUN1.jpg
 Does it mean that I need to install such a large thing on my sound card as an OPAMP, when a LME49720 could be just 100 times smaller?
 Am I getting it correct?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No you must nothing. But if you want to get the best sound out of the STX you shot do.


----------



## Ansh

Thanks for answering my questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So it seems that it is quite difficult to install these discrete OPAMPs on STX


----------



## fine art acoustic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for answering my questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So it seems that it is quite difficult to install these discrete OPAMPs on STX
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes thats right. At least if you have a HTPC (desktop case) you need at least 2 free Slot's to place 3 units but than you can use a Plastic case to fix it. A Cutlery case from a dishwasher for example or anything simular. The only thing you have to take care about that the case have hol's inside that the air can breathe.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for answering my questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 So it seems that it is quite difficult to install these discrete OPAMPs on STX
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Difficult and expensive. OPA-Moon is 25 bucks, plus base shipping price of another 17 bucks. If you got three of those that's already approaching half the value of the sound card! Whether it is worth that or not is something you have to decide yourself, personally I would have to hear a lot of good impressions going from a LME49720NA to some discrete units.

 FWIW I used to have an OPA-Earth in a Zero DAC and it improved the sound considerably.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it mean that I need to install such a large thing on my sound card as an OPAMP, when a LME49720 could be just 100 times smaller?
 Am I getting it correct?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the first page of this PDF explains why discrete is so much better : http://johnhardyco.com/pdf/990-2007.pdf

 but they compare it to some really lousy regular op-amp....which were not meant for audio stuff in the first place, so it's not hard to beat!

 supposedly the discrete op-amps will increase both the distortion and the details....I don't see how that's possible, but I know I don't want more distortion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and having these 3 huge things hanging from the soundcard is simply laughable


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for answering my questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So it seems that it is quite difficult to install these discrete OPAMPs on STX
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The discrete opamps are bigger, as they are composed of discrete audio grade components. Depending on your case a easy way may be to put the card in the lowest slot possible and allow the opamps to rest on the bottom of the PC case. Put down some Non-conductive film -You can use a side of the static bag you get chip opamps in.


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The discrete opamps are bigger, as they are composed of discrete audio grade components. Depending on your case a easy way may be to put the card in the lowest slot possible and allow the opamps to rest on the bottom of the PC case. Put down some Non-conductive film -You can use a side of the static bag you get chip opamps in._

 

Well, I have a medium size case , which I have 4 free PCI Slots now
 I'm not sure if that will work, but if , I would still like to have a try


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I have a medium size case , which I have 4 free PCI Slots now
 I'm not sure if that will work, but if , I would still like to have a try
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There are ways to do it, if you want to check them out.


----------



## Bojamijams

ROBSCIX, or anyone else in the know, do they plan on updating the STX with the new clocking circuit and daughter-board expandibility (I made up a word, YAY!) 

 Seems silly not to.. then users just choose the better form factor


----------



## fine art acoustic

You'r right i'am still happy about the outcoming ST and i still have the daughterboard.
 I hope next week i'll get my ST and straight ahad i have the best 7.1 card wich is at the moment to get plus Headphone amp


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ROBSCIX, or anyone else in the know, do they plan on updating the STX with the new clocking circuit and daughter-board expandibility (I made up a word, YAY!) 

 Seems silly not to.. then users just choose the better form factor_

 

Not that I know of. The clock chip and pin-header seemd to be last minute additions to the ST. You never know though, if they think there is a need for it they might. ASUS may offer a newer modified version of the orignal STX. 
 There have been no concrete information either way.


----------



## hawaya

Works fine with 3 Opa-Earth


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works fine with 3 Opa-Earth_

 

So, how do they compare to stock op amps?


----------



## hawaya

First i try lt1361, and 2x lm6172, but the sound was dry in
 mids and highs compare with the earth-opamps.


----------



## awesom-o

I have the 49720HA in the I/V positions, and yesterday i checked if they were still in place. And when i touched them the opamps were realy hot. 
 I would have burned myself if I had held on for more than a second. I'm guessing at least 70 degrees C. 
 Is this normal? 

 Soundcard is working fine, sound is awesome.


----------



## leeperry

w/ or w/o the metal shield on the STX? some say it will only make the components hotter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should have the ST in the next coming days, when I do I'll quickly get the STX off the PC, then remove the shield...if they're really hot I'll ditch the shield.

 apparently, measurements are identical whether or not you have it installed....it's the PCB that is shielded.


----------



## awesom-o

it's with the shield off. Have an opa-moon in the buffer, so I haven't bothered with the shield


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Hi all
 I just received and installed 2 OPA Earth in IV and an OPA Sun V2 in the Buffer. right now I'm using the head-out so I only hear the Earths but I will listen to my speakers later and report on the differences there. 

 Compared to stock I would say that there is more extention in both directions and the level of detail is cranked up one more notch. I think they give a slightly warm and very natural representation of the sound.
 They are a bit of a pain to install, at least in my cluttered case, something that could have been fixed with better cable management . I think the new level of sound quality more than makes up for the installation and the price. 

 I can't wait to hear the full potential of these pretty little things when they reach the 100 h mark, even though I cant understand what would change in any electronic component with extended use.

 A big thanks to ROBSCIX for helping me with the questions that came up while researching discrete OP-Amps and for his great work in this thread.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad your enjoying them and also glad I could help.
 If you need more help, drop me a PM.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *awesom-o* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's with the shield off._

 

oh! well, time to improve your case cooling then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or use a spot-on fan from Antec maybe?

 I got a 25cm fan in the side door, hopefully it won't get too hot. I'll check when I'll swap the STX for the ST


----------



## awesom-o

Yeah, maybe i'll put a little fan in there. Ambient temp is about 35 C now, that doesn't help either. My room is too damn hot during summer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

All IC's will generate some heat. TO-99 packages cannot dissapate heat as easily as chip opamps can. If you can leave your finger on the can for a few seconds chances are this is just normal operating temps of the opamp in a TO-99 package. However, if it is really getting very hot... You may have a opamp oscillating.
 I have many TO-99 based modules and they can get a little warm during use.


----------



## leeperry

you still got the option to snatch a few C-Wing free samples : Chomerics - Thermal Products - T-Wing

 these are low profile ceramic heatsinks...they also kill EMI I think.

 I might fancy one of these on the ST actually on the 2 I/V 49720HA, I've had these samples for a while but never really knew where to put them


----------



## nahkmos

Hi!

 Is there a real problem with this card's temperature? Because my actual HTPC is not well ventilated... I've to change this before...


----------



## ROBSCIX

No. The card runs cool. Certain opamps people put in the card can run a bit hot.


----------



## nahkmos

Thx for your fast answer!

 An other question: I'll buy this card first for an Hi-fi use but after, I think I'll use this one with the daughterboard in a HC use.

 Do you know if that's possible to use the main card for Hifi connected on a hifi amplifier and the daughterboard for HC connected on an AV preamplifier? How it will be operate? Both cards are recognized in the OS and we have to choose which card we want to use in which player ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Only the Essence ST has the daughter board option. Not the STX. The ST is also PCI only.
 Don't think you can use it like this. The card is a 7.1 when used with the daughter card.


----------



## VykRO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nahkmos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!

 Is there a real problem with this card's temperature? Because my actual HTPC is not well ventilated... I've to change this before..._

 

First time I powered the system with the board installed I experienced some pretty high temperatures but it's all ok now. I use the Xonar in a relatively small HTPC case (20*30*6cm) so you should be ok if there are ventilation holes and a minium of active ventilation. Note that in my case the board is over the hdd but "far" away from the CPU, northbridge - I use INtel DG45FC mini ITX mainboard.


----------



## nahkmos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only the Essence ST has the daughter board option. Not the STX. The ST is also PCI only._

 

Sure! 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't think you can use it like this. The card is a 7.1 when used with the daughter card._

 

So, when used with ths daughter board, the ST become a 7.1 card only, not a 2.0 + a 5.1 card...That's a bad news...


----------



## nahkmos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VykRO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First time I powered the system with the board installed I experienced some pretty high temperatures but it's all ok now. I use the Xonar in a relatively small HTPC case (20*30*6cm) so you should be ok if there are ventilation holes and a minium of active ventilation. Note that in my case the board is over the hdd but "far" away from the CPU, northbridge - I use INtel DG45FC mini ITX mainboard._

 

Thank you for your report. I'll optimize my HTPC case to improve the cooling system because the Xonar ST will be near a fanless video card!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Even stock opamps will give off a certain amount of heat.


----------



## Essence

Quick Q for those using H650's with the STX, what gain settings are you using? 64-300 or 300-600?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Which one works the best for you?


----------



## Essence

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one works the best for you?_

 

I'm worried if I use the 300-600 setting I'll damage the HP's.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Use which give you the best run for the volume. If the first setting allows you to use the entire volume knob...that is great.
 If the second setting you can only use the first little bit of the volume...chances are this setting is too high.

 You can wait for the HD650's guys to let you know though.


----------



## leeperry

I think everyone pretty much agrees that the middle setting is best one...the lowest sounds dull(like the lineout), and the top one sounds distorted and agressive.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nahkmos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure! 



 So, when used with ths daughter board, the ST become a 7.1 card only, not a 2.0 + a 5.1 card...That's a bad news..._

 

No, the ST it self stil has the 2.0 etc plugs on it. the dauther board should spawn another option for it in the control panel. well thats how It should do it.The Dauther board would have 7.1 plugs on it and not the 2.0+ 5.1 others. Its Two seperated plugs so you would have 2.0 the headphone amp etc on the main part then 7.1 analog on the dauther board.


----------



## takengo2003

can this Xonar Essence STX drive a AKG 701/702 well.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Yup, pretty well I would say, I use the lowest gain-setting and get plenty of Ompf. The bass reaches pretty deep and the detail is spectacular and even better with upgraded Op-amps...


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, pretty well I would say, I use the lowest gain-setting and get plenty of Ompf. The bass reaches pretty deep and the detail is spectacular and even better with upgraded Op-amps..._

 

thanks for the info. great to hear that.

 i think i will give it a go to buy the AKG702 and use it on my STX.

 My STX is now installed with Moon hdam(buffer) and 2xLM4562(L/R).

 How long do i have to burn in the K702 before it fully mature, or will i hear a wow music from a K702 that is virgin from box?


----------



## Mr_Owlow

I would say that the greatest change occur in the first 24 hours of burn-in. Out of the box they sound harsh and lack bass, most of this is fixed in the first 24 hours using pink noise, then the sound gradually softens and gets deeper and fuller with some saying they are fully burnt in after 300 hours. I don't notice any difference any more, and I have some 200 hours on mine...


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can this Xonar Essence STX drive a AKG 701/702 well._

 

I would say it does surely


----------



## crossbone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Essence* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm worried if I use the 300-600 setting I'll damage the HP's._

 

So for me 64-300 Ohm Setting is enough  i usually listen at 50% Volume with this Setting and my Sennheiser HD650. I think it is already pretty loud. 

 The Sound of this Combo is btw AMAZING!


----------



## nahkmos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, the ST it self stil has the 2.0 etc plugs on it. the dauther board should spawn another option for it in the control panel. well thats how It should do it.The Dauther board would have 7.1 plugs on it and not the 2.0+ 5.1 others. Its Two seperated plugs so you would have 2.0 the headphone amp etc on the main part then 7.1 analog on the dauther board._

 

So it's possible to connect an AV receiver on the daughter card and an hifi (stereo) amplifier on the main card when using both?


----------



## crossbone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nahkmos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it's possible to connect an AV receiver on the daughter card and an hifi (stereo) amplifier on the main card when using both?_

 

Yes absolutely!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nahkmos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it's possible to connect an AV receiver on the daughter card and an hifi (stereo) amplifier on the main card when using both?_

 

Yes, you have a seperate RCA output for each channel. There are also three opamps for every stereo pair. Such as: 
 Front L&R 
 Rear L&R 
 Side L&R 
 Center & Subwoofer 
 Giving you a great deal of options for tuning and upgrading the sound.
 You can use a different opamp for the center channel and/or sub then other channels.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say that the greatest change occur in the first 24 hours of burn-in. Out of the box they sound harsh and lack bass, most of this is fixed in the first 24 hours using pink noise, then the sound gradually softens and gets deeper and fuller with some saying they are fully burnt in after 300 hours. I don't notice any difference any more, and I have some 200 hours on mine..._

 

thanks,

 you mean you dont notice anymore difference after 200 hours of burn in?

 by the way, what setting to use on the ST/STX if pair with AKG K701/K702 ? should we use the lowest setting (<64ohms) or middle setting?


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say it does surely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hi,

 so what setting you using on the STX when pair with K701?


----------



## d(((--)))b

Hi

 Is it possible to connect a guitar through the line-in of this card ? 

 I want to learn to play guitar and planning to get a guitar without a guitar amp.


----------



## leeperry

guitar is high-Z, not gonna work...you need a DI box


----------



## d(((--)))b

thanks for your response... I will have a look at those DI units.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks,

 you mean you dont notice anymore difference after 200 hours of burn in?

 by the way, what setting to use on the ST/STX if pair with AKG K701/K702 ? should we use the lowest setting (<64ohms) or middle setting?_

 

I think the changes have dropped to such small levels that I can't tell if something has changed between over-night pink noise sessions...

 I use the lowest setting and turn the knob to 50-70% depending on source volume. You can use the second gain setting but then it is difficult to get the volume perfect (25-35%). As far as I know the gain setting is just a volume boost and shouldn't affect the sound, but the boost happens in the amplifier-chip so something could change, but not as far as I can tell...


----------



## taso89

Guitar will work just fine if you switch to mic input and boost it.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr_Owlow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the changes have dropped to such small levels that I can't tell if something has changed between over-night pink noise sessions...

 I use the lowest setting and turn the knob to 50-70% depending on source volume. You can use the second gain setting but then it is difficult to get the volume perfect (25-35%). As far as I know the gain setting is just a volume boost and shouldn't affect the sound, but the boost happens in the amplifier-chip so something could change, but not as far as I can tell..._

 

i see, thanks.

 can someone tell me if i turn the STX to speaker mode, does it burn in all my 3 opamps, or is it burning only the opamp in the buffer section?

 how about if i turn the mode to headphone mode in the STX, same question, does all my 3 opamps gets the burning in process too?


----------



## d(((--)))b

thank you taso89. so in that case, do I need the DI Unit ?


----------



## taso89

When I briefly used it for recording, it worked just fine, though I did have to amplify the signal. Other than that it was clean and everything. I'm not sure what a DI box is.


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i see, thanks.

 can someone tell me if i turn the STX to speaker mode, does it burn in all my 3 opamps, or is it burning only the opamp in the buffer section?

 how about if i turn the mode to headphone mode in the STX, same question, does all my 3 opamps gets the burning in process too?_

 

The line-out uses all three op-amps and the headphone-out used the I/V pair and a hi-z amplifier chip. However there is really nothing to "burn in" in any electronics, at least not chips, the only change that could occur is when they are warming up, anything else is in your head.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d(((--)))b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thank you taso89. so in that case, do I need the DI Unit ?_

 

Yes, you still need DI box or a effect box with a line out...works just as good. Trouble with using the mic in and boosting it is the signal is very dirty (not in a good way) _mic inputs on consumer soudncards are very low quality. If you want a signal that you can work with for recording or playing through the PC....get the right tool. I play through the PC all the time. Both recording and using the PC as effects processor.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i see, thanks.

 can someone tell me if i turn the STX to speaker mode, does it burn in all my 3 opamps, or is it burning only the opamp in the buffer section?

 how about if i turn the mode to headphone mode in the STX, same question, does all my 3 opamps gets the burning in process too?_

 

Speaker mode uses all three opamps I/V and Single end buffer
 HEadpheons mode uses just I/V and the TI headphone amplifier.

 There is a great deal of debate going on about burn-in. There is some suggestion that caps will burn-in or settle over time...some think opamps do also but there is a large amount of debate on that one.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I briefly used it for recording, it worked just fine, though I did have to amplify the signal. Other than that it was clean and everything. I'm not sure what a DI box is._

 

DI =Direct injection, Direct interface etc... The main function is impedance matching. a guitar is a high impedance insturment. Mixer...recording units etc..usually have low impedance or line level inputs.

 DI boxes are usually used to connect a guitar stright to the mixer or to another devices with low impedance inputs -such as a PC soudncard.


----------



## d(((--)))b

thanks all for your contribution... I will look for a DI box


----------



## ROBSCIX

There are many of them. various DI units or guitar interfaces.

 Back to the STX.


----------



## takengo2003

thanks owlow and robscix for the info.

 by the way, anyone tried lt1361 opamp at the I/V, thinking of either lt1361 or lm4562 at the I/V section. The buffer section i am using Moon hdam at the moment.

 I have Sun,Moon and Earth hdam, also have 2x LT1361, 2x LM4562(same as the one from STX buffer), any idea which is the best combo for my STX?


----------



## genclaymore

You have to try them out with the moon in the buffer to hear which ones sounds the best to you. Because we cant tell you,you might not even like what is sugested.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to try them out with the moon in the buffer to hear which ones sounds the best to you. Because we cant tell you,you might not even like what is sugested._

 

yes, in fact, i am already doing it. somehow the lm4562 in the i/v seems to be better pair, but i cannot judge now as i just receive my lt1361 only, hence have to go through the whole process of burning in before can make any comparison. with my collection of (sun/moon/earth hdam, 2x lm4562 and 2x lt1361), i guess i will have to spent some time to try out the different combination.

 but anyone here, wish to give a vote on which combination will be best after everything is fully burned in. i know this is personal preference, but just want to know some public views.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, in fact, i am already doing it. somehow the lm4562 in the i/v seems to be better pair, but i cannot judge now as i just receive my lt1361 only, hence have to go through the whole process of burning in before can make any comparison. with my collection of (sun/moon/earth hdam, 2x lm4562 and 2x lm4562), i guess i will have to spent some time to try out the different combination.

 but anyone here, wish to give a vote on which combination will be best after everything is fully burned in. i know this is personal preference, but just want to know some public views._

 

HDAM's work great in this card. There are a few members using them in the STX and ST.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Hi.


----------



## d(((--)))b

Hi

 How would a pair of amplified studio monitors connected through RCA of this card


----------



## ROBSCIX

Depends on what the studio monitors have for input. They should have a TRS or a RCA input. 
 It would only be matter of adapting the output of the STX to the input of your monitors.


----------



## alexv

Hi guys . I know this is headphones forum but I going to buy Xonar Essence ST . Can someone please advise me good acoustic system? Im not sure should I buy 2.0 or 2.1 . I have a small room (3x5 meters) My budget for speakers is around 500 - 600$ . Please help me pick an amplifier too. Sorry for offtop , best regards to your community.


----------



## Alexander01

Question for owner with the STX:

 If i tick 'SDPIF Out: PCM' in Xonar Audio Center, will I get simultanous analog and digital output? If so, I have 2 other questions:

 1. If I change the windows volume, is the SPDIF volume also being changed?

 2. If I change the Equalizer, are these settings also being aplied to SPDIF signal?


 Thanks already


----------



## leeperry

yes/yes/yes


----------



## Alexander01

thanks for the quick response


----------



## leeperry

np, and if you want a more accurate EQ you have to modify C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Application Data\ASUS\Xonar D2 Audio Center\cmicnfp.ini 

 you need to add these lines at the end :
  Code:


```
[left]EQITEMNAME0=k701 EQITEMNAME0_Data0=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data1=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data2=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data3=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data4=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data5=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data6=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data7=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data8=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data9=0[/left]
```

0 is 0, 1310720 is +20dB, -1310720 is -20dB

 thanks to ManuLM for the heads up!


----------



## thoppa

Hi,

 Hacks ! Yes please ! 

 Can you direct me to the source for this ? 120 pages on this thread....gah...

 I'd love to change the EQ to +/-6. +/-20 is crazy. ... but maybe this just sets the EQ ? I'd love to be able access the code....maybe not possible without an eeprom module...?

 Thank you so much !

 Tom

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_np, and if you want a more accurate EQ you have to modify C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Application Data\ASUS\Xonar D2 Audio Center\cmicnfp.ini 

 you need to add these lines at the end :
  Code:



		Code:
	

[left]EQITEMNAME0=k701 EQITEMNAME0_Data0=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data1=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data2=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data3=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data4=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data5=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data6=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data7=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data8=0 EQITEMNAME0_Data9=0[/left]


0 is 0, 1310720 is +20dB, -1310720 is -20dB

 thanks to ManuLM for the heads up!_


----------



## RicHSAD

I tired to look for that file on my computer and I could not find it. Probably explains why my EQ profiles disappear after a reboot lol. Tried re-install the drivers and it had no effect. If anyone has the exact location of where it should be located on Vista, it would be much appreciated. I think I will try to manually create the file and see what happens.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you using the latest version of the driver for Vista? You shouldn't lose your settings every reboot.


----------



## RicHSAD

Yeah I am using the latest version. I am actually using the ST drivers right now, but it wasn't working either with the latest STX drivers.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hacks ! Yes please ! 

 Can you direct me to the source for this ? 120 pages on this thread....gah..._

 

at the bottom of this page...this hasn't been discussed on head-fi : Google Translate


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_at the bottom of this page...this hasn't been discussed on head-fi : Google Translate_

 

Yes, it has been discussed on Head-fi. Have a look here: CustomEQ


----------



## mojave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alexander01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for owner with the STX:

 If i tick 'SDPIF Out: PCM' in Xonar Audio Center, will I get simultanous analog and digital output? If so, I have 2 other questions:

 1. If I change the windows volume, is the SPDIF volume also being changed?

 2. If I change the Equalizer, are these settings also being aplied to SPDIF signal?


 Thanks already_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* 
_yes/yes/yes_

 

This is great! I hope the ST has this same feature. I use this capability with my X-Fi Elite to send the SPDIF to a Behringer DCX2496 for bass management and parametric equalization for two subwoofers. I like eliminating the extra A/D to D/A step that most are required to use. Even the new SVS AS-EQ1 with the Audyssey bass correction requires analog inputs.

 Even though I use the DCX2496 now, I am thinking of just EQing the subs together using Digital Room Correction in my HTPC. The benefit is that I can use the higher quality DAC's in the ST. The downside is that I can't separately EQ the subs or use them in a stereo configuration (left sub gets left speaker bass and right sub gets right speaker bass).


----------



## leeperry

the EQ in the drivers is nothing to write home about...I'd be more willing to trust something like apEQ or IIEQPro. If they could allow to add VST plugins in the drivers, this would be complete awesomeness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I didn't bother asking Asus, because at this point if we ever get bit-perfect drivers that'll be a miracle already. Asus markets the hardware as audiophile(even though they use the lowest DIP8 sockets quality available on the market), but the drivers are average at best...so I wouldn't except miracles from the built-in EQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ideally you should output 100% bit-perfect from the ST, and then EQ in 24int/32fp in your DCX2496.

 I've got no idea if the EQ works in multichannel mode in S/PDIF, I was only talking about stereo...the latest build of AC3Filter can do exactly that! but AC3Filter tends to crash the C-Media drivers for many ppl(including me, I just get BSOD's on cmudaxp.sys): xonar ac3filter bsod - Google Search

http://tech-report.net/ja.zz?id=322062

  Quote:


 One thing I didn't see a single mention of in the review was driver quality. Unfortunately the C-Media Oxygen HD drivers are lackluster in several areas I have noticed.

 Pre-mixed AC3 streams will cause an instant BSOD (eg, with AC3Filter). 
 

I've told Asus about it, they said they'd try to reproduce(and they confirmed that many ppl complained about it too)..otherwise you could still use VAC/console/Ozone/Reclock, yada yada


----------



## ROBSCIX

KMPlayer and AC3filter work fine for me. 

 Last time you had a video issue that you blamed on your soundcard it was just you, running a bunch of plugins and hacks. Are you doing that again?


 ..no two systems are the same so just because your having issue doesn't mean others are.


----------



## thoppa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it has been discussed on Head-fi. Have a look here: CustomEQ_

 

Thanks guys ! Actually, it isn't what I had hoped for - it looks like it just creates a saved setting ? I was hoping to be able to edit the code that determines the bandwidth of each channel and the amount of gain. 

 For my HD650s, with an ST card, AD8620 in the final stage and 2x AD8599 in the I/V stage, the only thing I like is to add some deep bass when listening at low volume. 

 The EQ isn't that great - but it isn't awful either - so it'll do.

 Thanks again,

 Tom


----------



## leeperry

and just as a reminder, CUDA in CoreAVC gives instant reboots too! at least on my box, and I'd say that I'm quite aware of how to setup a HTPC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on my STX the sound would stutter for two secs...and then, reboot! turning off CUDA fixes the problem.

 and enabling KMPlayer to use the master volume control also gives BSOD's...so frustrating 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try again to use AC3Filter as the latest version looks really great...MT, 32float decoding, custom mixing matrix. very nice! ffdshow decodes AC3 in 32float, but not DTS I think.

 my setup is as follow :
 XP SP3
 latest KMPlayer beta
 latest ffdshow ICL10 beta
 latest nvidia drivers
 latest DX9 update

 it all works fine w/ other soundcards(M-Audio/Realtek)...it's just these C-Media drivers that are lousy as hell! next soundcard I buy I'll triple-check that it doesn't use C-Media junk.

 even a Realtek mobo chip is bit-perfect in WASAPI...figures


----------



## ROBSCIX

Seems quite similar to what I am using and I have tried to reproduce your issue the first time and so did another guy. You also wrote in another forum, that it wasn't the card it was You The Cuda FFDshow problem. Remember?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*anyway, the Asus soundcard seems to work fine now...the K.I.S.S. principe applies *:
 -ffdshow video(sharpen/avisynth/gamut conversion)
 -ffdshow audio(binaural 5.1>stereo downmix matrix>Ozone4>32 float)
 -Reclock in 32float>24int DirectKS
 -HR in 48Hz/RGB32
 -KMP
*PS:* I'm not sure what libraries to select for AC3/DTS in ffdshow ?! I've read through google that liba52 was decoding AC3 in 32float, that's good stuff! I was doing that in AC3Filter._

 

Works fine for me....both times now. Maybe your not quite as aware as you would like to think. Consider all the junk your running no wonder your having issues. Maybe this is just another case of K.I.S.S?
 Drivers seem to work fine for me and others in this forum. If the Realtek works so good and has what you want perhaps you should stick with that?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys ! Actually, it isn't what I had hoped for - it looks like it just creates a saved setting ? I was hoping to be able to edit the code that determines the bandwidth of each channel and the amount of gain. 

 For my HD650s, with an ST card, AD8620 in the final stage and 2x AD8599 in the I/V stage, the only thing I like is to add some deep bass when listening at low volume. 

 The EQ isn't that great - but it isn't awful either - so it'll do.

 Thanks again,

 Tom_

 

Those AD's would make a great combo. I have the AD8620BR and AD8599's. Although I haven't tried that particular setup yet. Working with some custom built discretes right now. Ah,more control over the EQ -would be nice. Maybe a VST or DX plugin would be a better fit for what your after. Have you tried the Waves plugins? There are a couple plugins that should give you that kind of precision.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works fine for me....both times now. Maybe your not quite as aware as you would like to think. Consider all the junk your running no wonder your having issues. Maybe this is just another case of K.I.S.S?
 Drivers seem to work fine for me and others in this forum. If the Realtek works so good and has what you want perhaps you should stick with that?_

 

hehehe, how much do you get paid by Asus to break any bad comments so ppl buy their cards? how much? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe you should register on all these forums and tell these ppl that they are also a bunch of retards? xonar ac3filter bsod - Google Search

 and you seem to know so much about HTPC's! I'm sure I've got nothing to learn your about EBU/SMPTE-C/REC.709 gamut conversions, YCbCr conversions, true 24p playback, multichannel>binaural downmixing and so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to keep it KISS, because the stupid drivers are simply UNSTABLE to begin with...my crap works fine w/ any non C-Media card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's a known issue that they are very pesky about audio decoders and buggy as hell! look up my google link and my quote above if you dare..it takes a friggin' miracle to get AC3Filter+CUDA working on these cards. is that everyone's fault *BUT* C-Media? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it's better that we ignore each other...as we did in the past. you get paid by Asus to do 24/7 support here, and break any bad comments...I know you can't stand me posting here and always try to prove me wrong, that's why I'll keep doing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the day I'll have the bit-matched drivers I've been whining for since forever, I might take it easy...or just sell my ST and buy a RSA Predator indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a Realtek soundcard can do bit-perfect WASAPI through S/PDIF, you just plug it to some serious external gear...a guy on the Reclock forum checked on his S/PDIF received, his mobo Realtek chip is bit-perfect to the most extreme in WASAPI exclusive...constantly changing the sampling rate to avoid SRC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these C-Media are notorious to be sucky-sucky, there's even some third party drivers for some of their other chipsets...too bad not for the 8788 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now keep calling me a retard and try to prove me wrong, that was my last answer to you *EVER*....long live the king, the king is dead


----------



## thoppa

Hi,

 I haven't tried any plugins yet. I'm still looking at the hardware tbh but I'll get to it - thanks for the tip !

 I use the card to output spdif so using EQ is entirely unnecessary for that. It's just cans at low volume that need a little bass lift; about 4dB at 30, 2db at 60, 1db at 120. This suits me for a wide variety of music. 

 For the STX I loved the LM49720 x2 and AD8620 x1, but for the ST the AD8599 are just exactly my cup of tea ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Cheers !

 Tom


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehehe, how much do you get paid by Asus to break any bad comments so ppl buy their cards? how much? [maybe you should register on all these forums and tell these ppl that they are also a bunch of retards? xonar ac3filter bsod - Google Search

 and you seem to know so much about HTPC's! I'm sure I've got nothing to learn your about EBU/SMPTE-C/REC.709 gamut conversions, YCbCr conversions, true 24p playback, multichannel>binaural downmixing and so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to keep it KISS, because the stupid drivers are simply UNSTABLE to begin with...my crap works fine w/ any non C-Media card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's a known issue that they are very pesky about audio decoders and buggy as hell! look up my google link and my quote above if you dare..it takes a friggin' miracle to get AC3Filter+CUDA working on these cards. is that everyone's fault *BUT* C-Media? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it's better that we ignore each other...as we did in the past. you get paid by Asus to do 24/7 support here, and break any bad comments...I know you can't stand me posting here and always try to prove me wrong, that's why I'll keep doing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the day I'll have the bit-matched drivers I've been whining for since forever, I might take it easy...or just sell my ST and buy a RSA Predator indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a Realtek soundcard can do bit-perfect WASAPI through S/PDIF, you just plug it to some serious external gear...a guy on the Reclock forum checked on his S/PDIF received, his mobo Realtek chip is bit-perfect to the most extreme in WASAPI exclusive...constantly changing the sampling rate to avoid SRC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these C-Media are notorious to be sucky-sucky, there's even some third party drivers for some of their other chipsets...too bad not for the 8788 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now keep calling me a retard and try to prove me wrong, that was my last answer to you *EVER*....long live the king, the king is dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 ..I can show you the screen shots if you like. 
 Being a troll doesn't help the situation any. Actually, if you look around this forum, you recommend these cards more then anybody else, You whine yet you recommend them at every turn. I hardly recommend them to anybody unless it is a good match. Although I will pass along what I know about the cards this is a forum that is what people do here.

 I did google you quote, you need to learn to search properly. Half the posts aren't about this card and some of them are your crap at the reclock forum.

 I don't care what you post. You just admitted your posting to start trouble -TROLL.
 I have proved you wrong on almost everything you posted as you just said, your just doing it to be a troll so there is no real trouble just you and lack of understanding. No cards or drivers are perfect and I don't and never claimed the were.

 You said you were going to ignore me along time ago yet you keep trolling grow up....
 Just because your haing trouble doesn't mean everybody is.
 If you post crap, I will call you on it. Funny all your post at reclock are totally opposite form what you post here. Quite the trolling, put on your big boy pants and have a normal adult conversation.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I haven't tried any plugins yet. I'm still looking at the hardware tbh but I'll get to it - thanks for the tip !

 I use the card to output spdif so using EQ is entirely unnecessary for that. It's just cans at low volume that need a little bass lift; about 4dB at 30, 2db at 60, 1db at 120. This suits me for a wide variety of music. 

 For the STX I loved the LM49720 x2 and AD8620 x1, but for the ST the AD8599 are just exactly my cup of tea ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Cheers !

 Tom_

 

Waves are some serious software and there are hardware version of various plugins. They are studio processors used for mixing and mastering but you can use them for anything. I have tried the AD8599's in I/V but never in the combo your talking about. You need a DX wrapper and or VST brudge for your player.


----------



## thoppa

Thanks !


----------



## leeperry

this one is my favorite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Xonar DX bluescreen playing video

  Quote:


 I can confirm that the bluescreen is linked with the AC3Filter. 
 

 Quote:


 I can confirm this. If the AC3Filter driver is set with other outputs than 2.0 or 5.1 channels the PC reboots immediatly on AVI playback. 
 

 Quote:


 I was playing a video already and tried to switch to another one by double clicking the file when I did the computer rebooted with the same error as the first poster. 
 

 Quote:


 if the Output format is not set to 2.0 or 5.1 the OS restarts immediatly. 
 

AC3Filter is a big no-no if you leave it on "as is"...sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and now for the final solution:
  Quote:


 Using CCCP which uses FFDshow not ac3filter I noticed that the blue screen would stop 
 

and Asus said they'd look into it :
  Quote:


 Moderator 
 Posted:4/15/2008 11:42:00 AM # 6 
 Hi all,
 Thanks for the input.
 We'll put this issue on 1st priority. 
 

maybe we'll get a fix next year? oops I forgot, all the guys in that thread are mentally challenged...eg, not as smart as Robbie6


----------



## ROBSCIX

This one is my favorite:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*bit-perfect doesn't mean anything, as I've tried to show in my previous post....and no it's not bit-perfect, but the THD+N distortion is so low, that it don't matter.*
 the ST is actually the first soundcard to have a 1ppm clock AFAIK, only external DAC's had that before...as soon as it'll be available in shops, I'll grab it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Guess we know where you stand on bit perfect...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks !_

 

Here is the site, the are too much unless you running a studio.
 However there are demos...IIRC.
WAVE Plugins


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this one is my favorite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Xonar DX bluescreen playing video_

 

Yes well very cool. Did you notice your in the STX thread we are talking about STX/ST here.....not a DX. Sorry.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*AC3Filter is a big no-no if you leave it on "as is"...sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
 and now for the final solution:


 and Asus said they'd look into it :

 maybe we'll get a fix next year? oops I forgot, all the guys in that thread are mentally challenged...eg, not as smart as Robbie6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So if you set AC3filter to anything other then 2.0 or 5.1 you get a BSOD?
 well let me try that and see what happens.





 WHOA. BSOD!!! there it is....look at all that blue!!!
 Check the setting there, other then 2.0 or 5.1 I have it set for Quadro 4 channel and left it as is?
 Where is the BSOD? Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thoppa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks !_

 

I forgot to mention you can get many free EQ or other effects for this site:
KVR audio effect
 Just look through some are pay, shareware or free.


----------



## leeperry

wow 4 messages in a row, god created this : 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess you overloooked this little button, but this is is common practice to use it on internet boards...you should try it sometime, or soon we might end up w/ single pages of pointless monologue


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is not pointless, this is a forum and informaiton has a point. I am sure others are very interested in some of it. Especially afer the way you carry on around here. The other two post were to Thoppa. 

 If you would use the edit button more, this forum would be a better place.

 Anyway, you have a big boy choice...either continue on your trolling ways and have people ignore you and call you on your crap. 
 OR, You could just grow up a bit and start contributing and acting like the rest of the people around here.


 It would be nice to get back to soundcards now....


----------



## ROBSCIX

For the opamp swappers in the crowd, here is a pic of some new modules that I made partially for use on the STX/ST/






 We have a single LME49720HA and a Dual LME49710HA module. After testing I would say the dual 710HA has a edge in sound quality.
 The pics are watermarked for the site where I orginally posted them. Pic's tend to find there way into others forums.


----------



## taso89

Do the dual 49710HA's on the adapters fit in the I/V and buffers?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the dual 49710HA's on the adapters fit in the I/V and buffers?_

 

Buffer yes.
 You can get it to fit in the I/V with some ingenuity. I am working on another adapter for using larger modules when the sockets are so close together.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the opamp swappers in the crowd, here is a pic of some new modules that I made partially for use on the STX/ST/






 We have a single LME49720HA and a Dual LME49710HA module. After testing I would say the dual 710HA has a edge in sound quality.
 The pics are watermarked for the site where I orginally posted them. Pic's tend to find there way into others forums.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great stuff. This is really the only family of opamps (49720HA/10HA) that I want to try ATM.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LM/LME opamps have been used with great results with soundcards since they were released.

 You should have some coming your way very soon


----------



## Kommando

Would this card be worth getting to replace a Kingrex UD-01 external DAC?

 Heres the specs of the Kingrex...

 DAC Chip - Burrn Brown PCM2702E
 Sampling Rates - 44.1kHz/48kHz 16-Bit
 Low Pass Filter - Burr Brown OPA2604 (socketed for easy upgrade)

 I will be only using it as a DAC as i have a good external headphone amplifier.

 Thanks,


----------



## Theresa

It seems a waste to use such a card as just a dsp. I just ordered one from Amazon because listening to Senn. HD600s through the onboard Realtek 889a, especially with complex music is almost painful.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LM/LME opamps have been used with great results with soundcards since they were released.

 You should have some coming your way very soon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Theresa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems a waste to use such a card as just a dsp. I just ordered one from Amazon because listening to Senn. HD600s through the onboard Realtek 889a, especially with complex music is almost painful._

 

Agreed.


----------



## adam_eu

Ok, I think I'm gonna buy this STX, but I have couple of questions.

 Main reason to buy it is a good DAC section. *(1) Is it at last on the same level as E-MU 1212?*

 Another thing... I don't belive that its build in amp would drive my K701 or DT880 well so I'm planning to get external amp (correct me if I'm wrong). * (2) What's exactly output power of STX's amp?*

 I like that STX has gaming/movies support. "All in one" sounds great for me.
*(3) Is there something wrong in using external amp* (connected by STX's analog out) *with games and movies*? Maybe it's better to switch headphones to HP out before starting a game? 

 And the last one: I've heard that Dolby Headphone doesn't work through analog out, so i won't be able to use it with my amp. *(4) Maybe just forget about DH?* What do You think?

 Adam


----------



## leeperry

DH is a toy to impress newbies and sell more cards, it's not serious stuff IMHO.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adam_eu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I think I'm gonna buy this STX, but I have couple of questions.

 Main reason to buy it is a good DAC section. *(1) Is it at last on the same level as E-MU 1212?*_

 

Not sure, but if you compare the specs the STX/ST is usually heads above other cards. I have never compared the two so I cannot say anything to that affect. Recording cards usually have great sound but they would also have limited features for gaming or movies etc..
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adam_eu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another thing... I don't belive that its build in amp would drive my K701 or DT880 well so I'm planning to get external amp (correct me if I'm wrong). * (2) What's exactly output power of STX's amp?*_

 

Many use harder to drive headphones with the internal amplifier, cans such as HD650's. The little amp chip seems to have a great deal of power according to many others use hard to drive cans. 
 The STX amplifier section including the Headphone amp chips swings from -12 to +12 and IIRC, puts our abut 1.5 Watts.
 Here is the spec sheet may help answer other question related to this head amp chip. TPA6120A2
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adam_eu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like that STX has gaming/movies support. "All in one" sounds great for me.

*(3) Is there something wrong in using external amp* (connected by STX's analog out) *with games and movies*? Maybe it's better to switch headphones to HP out before starting a game? _

 

You can use the card as just a source and connect up your own can amplifier. There are others aorund that use a similar config because they have higher quality amps or just like the signature of their favorite amplifier.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adam_eu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the last one: I've heard that Dolby Headphone doesn't work through analog out, so i won't be able to use it with my amp. *(4) Maybe just forget about DH?* What do You think?

 Adam_

 

The DH is available when in headphone mode which means the internal amplifier is activated. When you switch to 2 channel mode as you would when running a external head amp, you only have options for 2 channle stereo. Depending on the task, there are many ways to use Dolby Headphones or other plugins and routines that basically do the same thing.
 Some like DH and some like others, really depends on personal taste and the task at hand. 

 Hope this helps.


----------



## adam_eu

Thanks, it helps a lot.
 About this 1,5W output power... Is it for 32Ohm?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I think the 1.5 is a max setting but check over the spec sheet.

 There are gain setting with the driver:
 Normal Gain (0db for <32ohm)
 High Gain (+12dB for 64~320ohm)
 Extra High Gain (+18dB for 300 ~ 600ohm)

 There are a few guys using HD650's with these as I said and they are considered hard to drive. There are also people using external amplifiers with this card also. Really your choice whatever you think would work better for you. I would say test it out, if the internal amp give you the power you need or the sound quality you want, Use an external can ampliifer. 
 I know the amp was also tesed sucessfully with: HD600, DT880 and AKG K240df. IIRC the 240df are very hard to drive.

 The internal amplifier is decent enough when you consider the overall MSRP of the card but It will not surpass the high dollar external headphone amplifiers for power or subjective sound quality. You are after all talking about a $200 soundcard.


----------



## Schlosser

I would like to try 2xLM6172 at the I/V section of the STX but as far as I know LM6172 is prone to oscillation.

 May I expect oscillation problems with 2xLM6172 at the I/V of the STX? Is the oscillation dangerous for the card? Sorry if my question sounds silly but I am very unfamiliar with this engineering stuff.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LM6172 have been tested on this card and they seem to work fine from the reports.
 To note, Oscillation is bad and you do not want it happening at all.


----------



## da_dude

hi there guys i think i may need to borrow some of your knowledge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 basically i was about to purchase myself the essence stx then came across robs preview on the essence st so now im fairly confused

 my uses for this card will be listing to loseless audio mp3's and audio cds
 watching films and some light gaming all through headphones, ill most probably be using dr dre beats headphones although i may swap them soon for something better

 any advice would be much appreciated 

 all the best guys

 cheers


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DH is a toy to impress newbies and sell more cards, it's not serious stuff IMHO._

 

Watch some movies with AC3 data on it and use Dolby Headphone. Then come back to me.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Watch some movies with AC3 data on it and use Dolby Headphone. Then come back to me._

 

I tried, no worries! the sound is WAY too hollow...and I prefer TrueHD 7.1 lossless audio these days. lossy audio is not my thang 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I prefer to use my own binaural stereo downmix matrix + Ozone4 to increase the out-of-head inverted phase back speakers sound. it's far more realistic and "dry" than this DH toy.

 DH feels to me like a HUGE reverb, which it is...technically. David Griesinger is far smarter than that, he invented many algorithms for HK and most of his work is freely available on his website: http://www.davidgriesinger.com/


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried, no worries! the sound is WAY too hollow...and I prefer TrueHD 7.1 lossless audio these days. lossy audio is not my thang 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I prefer to use my own binaural stereo downmix matrix + Ozone4 to increase the out-of-head inverted phase back speakers sound. it's far more realistic and "dry" than this DH toy.

 DH feels to me like a HUGE reverb, which it is...technically. David Griesinger is far smarter than that, he invented many algorithms for HK and most of his work is freely available on his website: http://www.davidgriesinger.com/_

 

I do agree that DH is more of a gimmick. It impresses on first listen and very quickly becomes fatiguing and just plain boring to listen to. It kills dynamics, adds a massive amount of reverb and wetness, and completely changes the tone for the worse.


----------



## RicHSAD

DH sounds good to me. Couldn't care less what others think lol.


----------



## genclaymore

RichSAD I agree with you i dont care what people think about those who uses Dolby headphones.The only time I use it is when I watching my Blu-ray/HD Dvd movies or playing Games. 

 What ever Dolby headphone mode I use is based on which Op-amps I currenty using as Some I use DH1 with them which works best for them. Then another combo I use DH2 which sound best for those.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sound is subjective. What sounds good to you might not sound good to others and what sound good to them might not sound good to you.


----------



## Lotharius

Hi

 I wanted to ask if an Essence STX would be a good deal for $180 and the seller also offers three OPA2107 op amps with it. And I'd also like to know, if it would be an over-kill for mu headphones or is it worth to get.

 I'll mainly use it for music and games but also movies. I would use Audiotechnica ATH-M50 cans and Z-2300 2.1 speakers with it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is a good deal. The opamps will give you a boost over stock sound quality.

 I wouldn't say overkill, when you get a better source though you might start notcing the limiting factors in your setup. -speakers...etc.


----------



## Lotharius

Yeah well the Logitech speakers are just for the BOOM (small apartment) not for quality, don't even dream about buying a good set of full size speakers atm besides I mostly use my headphones so my concern is that it might be way too good for them but hey as far as I understand the logic in audiophilia then nothing is TOO good when it comes to audio quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh and I must note that other available options here are (in the same price range) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Championship and Pro series so I guess the STX beats them in every possible aspect with maybe games being the exception, right ? And from eBay it would be possible to get D2X for about 180 too.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes. The STX is a great source and a good place to start if you want to upgrade your system. The STX also surpasses the D2.


----------



## ROBSCIX

To the opamps swapper in the thread. Here are four new opamps I built for use in a Essence STX. These were built for another forum members card...
 We have: 
 1 X Dual LME49710HA with adapter
 3 X LME49720HA with adapters
 The adapters have gold plated pins and I used premium grade Cardas Quad Eutectic solder for all connection.
 Based on testing, these units all sound great!


----------



## Bojamijams

The dual 710HA only fits in the buffer slot, correct?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Stock Yes.
 I am working on something to fix this though.
 Actually, I have quite a few ideas to fix this but the issue is not just for the card.
 The adapters could use a bit of re-working, so I have been considering just having some new models
 custom made.


----------



## Lotharius

OK looked some more opinions on that card and on one topic also Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1 was suggested. It seems to have all the same bells and whistles as STX like the changeable op amp for L/R channels and headphone amp, mic amp and also hardware EAX 5.0 support and since I game a lot too that seems like a good addition. 

 On the other hand it seems to have worse technical specs but I am no expert in soundcards so would it be a big downgrade from STX or with my headphones it wouldn't be noticeable ? Or are they more or less on the same level and I just have to decide if I want better sound in games or music ?

 Here are all the Forte's specs and technical notes: Auzentech, Inc. X-Fi Forte PCI-Express Soundcard : World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming

 BTW what number EAX can the STX do ?

 (And also my apologies for asking so much in this thread rather than making a new one)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lotharius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK looked some more opinions on that card and on one topic also Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1 was suggested. It seems to have all the same bells and whistles as STX like the changeable op amp for L/R channels and headphone amp, mic amp and also hardware EAX 5.0 support and since I game a lot too that seems like a good addition. 

 On the other hand it seems to have worse technical specs but I am no expert in soundcards so would it be a big downgrade from STX or with my headphones it wouldn't be noticeable ? Or are they more or less on the same level and I just have to decide if I want better sound in games or music ?

 Here are all the Forte's specs and technical notes: Auzentech, Inc. X-Fi Forte PCI-Express Soundcard : World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming

 BTW what number EAX can the STX do ?

 (And also my apologies for asking so much in this thread rather than making a new one)_

 

You should just create another thread. With a new thread you can get opinions from owners of the STX and the Forte.


----------



## Lotharius

Will do that just last question, how does Windows 7 handle the STX ? Any problems or is everything OK ?


 Oh well the deed is done and the STX on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The seller also adds those op amps in the bundle: LM6172, OPA2134 and the aforementioned OPA2107.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Cool, you have some opamps to play with and help tune your sound.


----------



## leeperry

BTW, lot of newcomers these days...just wanted to repeat that you can mod the latest ST drivers to install on the STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these drivers are 3 months older and carry a newer revision...I'd say that they sound better, but it's prolly placebo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I made a full modification of the XP drivers if anyone needs them...they say STX everywhere(install screens/device manager) :






 maybe some day Asus will officially update them for the STX, god only knows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and while they're at it, I was promised an "automatic" bit-matched sample rate in the drivers....more than 3 months ago.

*PS:* the STX measures better than the ST on the line-out, I'm personally back on the STX! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you can compare by yourself :
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Aud...est_Report.pdf
http://www.unitycorp.co.jp/asus/soun...eport_0226.pdf

 see how the FR is spot-on for both channels on the STX and not on the ST...and all the other tests give worse results, and even more spikes in the THD tests! as shown in the above PDF's and at the bottom of this page: http://www.unitycorp.co.jp/asus/soun...ar_essence_st/

 I really wouldn't hold my breath for the ST..it was a sheer waste of cash/time/energy for me, won't get burned twice I tell you...the STX is fantastic


----------



## ROBSCIX

One last shot for the Opamp swappers in the crowd, Here is the dual LME49710HA module as buffer with 2 X LME49720HA for I/V conversion.






 Great sound. I prefer the dual 710HA module to the dual channel brother.
 They sound somewhat different when tested side by side.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, lot of newcomers these days...just wanted to repeat that you can mod the latest ST drivers to install on the STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these drivers are 3 months older and carry a newer revision...I'd say that they sound better, but it's prolly placebo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I made a full modification of the XP drivers if anyone needs them...they say STX everywhere(install screens/device manager) :






 maybe some day Asus will officially update them for the STX, god only knows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and while they're at it, I was promised an "automatic" bit-matched sample rate in the drivers....more than 3 months ago.

*PS:* the STX measures better than the ST on the line-out, I'm personally back on the STX! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you can compare by yourself :
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Aud...est_Report.pdf
http://www.unitycorp.co.jp/asus/soun...eport_0226.pdf

 see how the FR is spot-on for both channels on the STX and not on the ST...and all the other tests give worse results, and even more spikes in the THD tests! as shown in the above PDF's and at the bottom of this page: Xonar Essence ST@Š”Ž®‰ïŽÐƒ†ƒjƒeƒB

 I really wouldn't hold my breath for the ST..it was a sheer waste of cash/time/energy for me, won't get burned twice I tell you...the STX is fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You do know you can do that with all of the Xonar drivers, people been doing that for a while including my self. So it not really new. Just like I did when I was modding Razer barracuda drivers for vista.


----------



## leeperry

I never said it was new..I'm just saying that I only read about it on the Asus VIP board, so newcomers might enjoy that..as much as I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and What doesn't Asus update their drivers if they're unified? can you imagine if nvidia were doing this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the software side is as bloated as the hardware side sounds amazing..I guess that's what you get when a motherboard manufacturer makes soundcards, great hardware and lousy software.

 I'm new to Xonar toy-cards, and I really hate the fixed sample rate in the drivers that resamples ASIO/KS...drivers are worse than Creative, un-freakin-believable


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You do know you can do that with all of the Xonar drivers, people been doing that for a while including my self. So it not really new. Just like I did when I was modding Razer barracuda drivers for vista._

 

Yes. The 8788 driver had similar base drivers. There were many modded sets floating around made by XM,Razor and other users. They were all basically interchangable at the base and simple modification could get them to work on other 8788 boards.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Claymore, I still have to build new OP827 for use in the STX/ST as I am down to one unit. Although I am partial to the LME49710HA module, I am researching some new models to use for new dual TO-99 modules. A few of use have been comparing notes and discussing many units behind the scenes and we may be designing some new adapters also!


----------



## leeperry

that's too bad I can't read your posts, but anyway better get great SQ and crappy drivers...than the opposite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 nothing's ever designed as it should be, I'm getting used to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but w/ some LME49720HA + some lossless remastered audio in KS, the SQ on the STX is simply out of this world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* about RMAA measurements, the STX maxes out the ADC at 117dB on the line-out:
http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...images/087.htm

 but *NOT* the ST(measured on my own card w/ the stock op-amps and a Monster Cable on the line-out):

  Code:


```
[left]Sampling mode 24-bit, 96 kHz Testing chain External loopback (line-out - line-in) RMAA Version 6.2.3 20 Hz - 20 kHz filter ON Normalize amplitude ON Level change 0.3 dB / 0.2 dB Mono mode OFF Calibration singal, Hz 1000 Polarity correct/correct Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB +0.02, -0.11 Noise level, dB (A) -115.5 Dynamic range, dB (A) 115.2 THD, % 0.0006 THD + Noise, dB (A) -101.1 IMD + Noise, % 0.0020 Stereo crosstalk, dB -96.2 IMD at 10 kHz, % 0.0007[/left]
```

the ST is a far cry from the STX..


----------



## neo-fi

Hey, is it normal to have WinXP volume at 3-5% out of 100% when using headphones with STX? imo it get's really really loud when going higher than 5%.
 Also I wonder why windows' volume control is set up like that for headphones?
 When I compare this to my laptop which uses built in speakers I can put it up to 100% and it doesn't sound anywhere that loud than 20% volume would sound in winXP.


----------



## RicHSAD

Check the gain setting. It might be higher than it should.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, if your using the headphone output you should try changing the gain to a lower setting to give you more control over the volume.


----------



## neo-fi

Now you both are talking about the headphone amplification in the AsusAudioCenter?
 Since my Koss SB45 is rated @100ohms, I use the high gain setting. I'll give a try at normal gain.

 Or does this have something to do with windows?
 Since before the STX I had same problem with my on-board audio card...


----------



## Theresa

Compared to the realtek 889a on my motherboard the essence is much more dynamic and undistorted with my HD600s. There is detail present that was totally veiled. I'm very pleased.


----------



## taso89

Wait 'til you get an amp for those babies


----------



## Pm@c

Anyone having mic problems with Windows 7? Cant get mine to work period.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neo-fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now you both are talking about the headphone amplification in the AsusAudioCenter?
 Since my Koss SB45 is rated @100ohms, I use the high gain setting. I'll give a try at normal gain.

 Or does this have something to do with windows?
 Since before the STX I had same problem with my on-board audio card..._

 

Yes, the gain setting in the Asus Panel. Just set it to correspond with your headphone impedance.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pm@c* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone having mic problems with Windows 7? Cant get mine to work period._

 

Have you tried the ASUS forums? New OS and if anybody else is having this issue, there maybe a fix or some further details. 
 Here is a link to the forum: LINK


----------



## Segya

I need some help deciding between the Essence STX and ST.

 According to what leeperry posted the STX clearly has a better line out signal but I also read here that the ST has a better internal clock thingy, so I'd like to ask how noticeable both of these points are in comparison.

 Replacing the clock crystal on the STX was also mentioned at some point, would this be preferable?

 (And this will be my first audiophile soundcard so I am sort of new to the topic)

 Edit: I'd also like to know how well the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 compares to those cards in terms of SQ.


----------



## leeperry

as I said in another thread, the STX has a very messy stereo image, and the ST tries to clean it up w/ a tigher clock...but fails blatantly IMO.

 and the HP amp is a $1.50 IC from TI, that literally kills the SNR measurements...and sounds really bad, and I'm not the only one saying it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm sure some Asus rep(or fanboys/newbies) will tell you that it's the best card in the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the HD2 doesn't measure as good, but seems to have dreamy drivers(ESI are not exactly amateurs like C-Media), and it's got the AK4396(the "miracle" DAC)...and ixbtlabs gave a very positive review. RMAA measurements don't tell the whole story, and it's way cheaper than the Essence cards too! saves some money to get a real external amp, not a $1.5 IC like Asus put on their cards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and for the same price as the STX, you can put 3 burson's on the HD2 basically


----------



## Theresa

I find the presentation of the STX with HD600s to be very good. The headphone amp maybe inexpensive but it has good performance. I have yet to be disappointed with either the stx or the HD600s. It took a long time for the Senns to break in and I did so with the onboard audio but once that was over the STX provided great performance.


----------



## Segya

Well, I can't find a HD2 for less then 100€ shipped to germany and essences are 140€ shipped.

 Now I hope to be able to drive my new headphones (ATH AD900) from the line out (I don't know how well that'll work out at all, even though they are supposed to be driven easy), so it comes down to whether that'd sound better than whatever the HD2 has to offer or not.

 I also do consider getting an external amp at some point in the future if it'd mean a decent improvement. I especially consider this to listen to my dad's hd600 headphones.


----------



## leeperry

you can get one brand new for 70 EUR shipped on ebay. put three bursons(3x45 EUR) and you more or less reach the same price as the STX(which costs 180 EUR here in France) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, that's prolly what I'm gonna do...and I will buy a Corda Arietta, it's a great bang-for-bucks amp apparently..great amplification and killer ESI drivers, they seem to be as good as the Echo Digital...I'm tired of toying around


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Segya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some help deciding between the Essence STX and ST.

 According to what leeperry posted the STX clearly has a better line out signal but I also read here that the ST has a better internal clock thingy, so I'd like to ask how noticeable both of these points are in comparison.

 Replacing the clock crystal on the STX was also mentioned at some point, would this be preferable?

 (And this will be my first audiophile soundcard so I am sort of new to the topic)

 Edit: I'd also like to know how well the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 compares to those cards in terms of SQ._

 

Yes, you can read the card has better line out inthe specifications.
 Both card are great just meant for different users types.
 Some use it for the can amp which is ok but the line out is the strongest point of the card.
 The ST has a clock cleanup chip which helps reduce jitter. The main point of the ST is the fact you can upgrade to full surround.

 The Hd2 is a fairly old card and doesn't have the same signal/sound quality.
 You get higher signal to noise, higher distortion, more crosstalk..etc.
 Check out the HD2 as it may have the featues you want but spec wise it is just not in the same league.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Theresa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the presentation of the STX with HD600s to be very good. The headphone amp maybe inexpensive but it has good performance. I have yet to be disappointed with either the stx or the HD600s. It took a long time for the Senns to break in and I did so with the onboard audio but once that was over the STX provided great performance._

 

Some were worried about the HD650's and IIRC the HD600's an a couple others as they were unsure the can amp would have enough power to drive these higher needs cans properly from a electrical point of view. I am considering getting a set of the HD650's but I have my eye on a nice tube can amp. Gotta love those glowing tubes for sound!


----------



## keithw

I'm thinking of getting an STX and have a quick question. I want to have my speakers hooked up to the analog outputs and then my headphone amp (audio-gd Compass) via S/PDIF. Can it output to both or are you limited to one or the other?


----------



## ROBSCIX

AFAIK, you can output to both analog output and S/Pdif at the same time.


----------



## RicHSAD

You can output to both the analog and spdif at the same time.


----------



## linuxpro

I signed up for an account on head-fi just to comment about the Xonar Essence STX. This sound card is AMAZING. The performance "out of the box" (default stock configuration in hardware and drivers) is better than any sound card I have ever heard or tested, and I have heard/tested about 20-30 of them now while looking for the perfect solution for my hi-fi HTPC setup. My goal was to go with a soundcard with balanced analog output (so I can remove any extra D/A-A/D conversion steps), so the Essence STX was the last card I tried due to its lack of balanced outputs.

 I put the Essence STX in my HTPC, connected to a Crown XLS-402 amplifier via RCA-to-XLR cables (standard RCA "line" output on Essence), then to a few different pairs of speakers. 

 The first pair was my inherited set of mint Klipsch Belles (purchased brand new by my father in 1974 from Paul Klipsch himself). The sound was amazing. Crystal-clear, excellent separation and staging, extended rich and accurate bass, treble with amazing clarity and totally lacking in harshness, etc. It sounds so good that I just sat there and listened to about 10-20 albums in a row, I mean I wasted an entire day just listening to music (a very good sign when you've just purchased new gear). Turned the amp up until my decibel meter read 120db to see if I could hear distortion or if it would sound fatiguing, and then played a FLAC copy of the London Symphony playing the 1812 Overture with real cannon fire. It sounded awesome, with no distortion at all, and was surprisingly very easy to listen to. 

 Don't know what you guys are talking about when you say the JRC opamps lack bass extension. The cannon fire was powerful enough to knock dishes out of my cabinets, knocked a few pictures off the walls, and overall impressed the living hell out of me. Likewise, when the police arrived due to a noise complaint, one of the cops had his hand on his gun and said he had heard gunfire while approaching my house. I played the track for them and they got a big kick out of it and then asked me to turn it down.

 Next was a pair of PSB Stratus Golds. Same experience. I noticed no weakness at all in the source, at any volume. The only thing I could comment on with the PSBs was that it sounded like the sound suffered a little bit of an excessive decay in the lower treble registers, and the upper midrange was a little boomy - but I believe that is due to the design of the PSBs, not the analog signal coming out of my sound card. The separation is phenomenal however, you can hear each instrument distinctly and clearly. It has amazing 3-dimensional staging, and the sound-stage is wide and deep, extending well past the side and rear walls of my listening room.

 I can't say enough about this card. It is an amazing deal at $200. I have NEVER heard sound this good from my HTPC.

 What's even crazier is that I'm now running unbalanced analog from the RCA output on the Essence to the XLR inputs on my Crown amp, and TOTALLY LOVING IT. I'm not going to change a thing. I never thought I would run unbalanced analog cables in my system again, after swapping to balanced a long time ago. But there is truly no distortion in the original signal, it's cleaner than the balanced XLRs I was running from the EMU 1212m.

 To test this theory, I again plugged in the Belle Klipsch's and turned my amp all the way up and turned the PC audio all the way up, without playing anything. With the EMU 1212m, I can hear very quiet hissing and an extremely quiet hum with my ear pressed against the speakers (this is with the balanced analog cables). With the Xonar Essence STX, I hear nothing. Needless to say, it amazes me that I have less noise with unbalanced RCAs on the Essence than I did with balanced XLR on the EMU 1212m. 

 I know some people will say, well, balanced analog is going to be +4db, versus the -10db of the unbalanced. I have only one response to this. When you are pushing over 400 watts RMS to a speaker with 105db of sensitivity, you are going to hear EVERYTHING, regardless of whether your input is +4/-10db. Trust me.

 I can't recommend this card enough. It's the best current hi-fi sound card on the market, hands-down, and I've tried everything: the Juli@, Emu 1212m, an offboard DAC1 (overpriced and overrated IMHO), the HT Omega Claro, Creative X-Fi, a few Auzentech cards, you name it. No other card has come close to the Essence STX in pure audio quality to this point.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some were worried about the HD650's and IIRC the HD600's an a couple others as they were unsure the can amp would have enough power to drive these higher needs cans properly from a electrical point of view. I am considering getting a set of the HD650's but I have my eye on a nice tube can amp. Gotta love those glowing tubes for sound!_

 

The Essence is a fantastic DAC, but it's no substitute for a good headphone amp when it comes to demanding cans like the HD600 or HD650.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Essence is a fantastic DAC, but it's no substitute for a good headphone amp when it comes to demanding cans like the HD600 or HD650._

 

Yes, I have said this a few times. Which is why I am also considering building a tube amp for the HD650's I am thinking of getting.
 I have said in many posts the strongest point of the STX/ST is the DAC quality and I never said it was a subsitute for a good external amplifier.


----------



## keithw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AFAIK, you can output to both analog output and S/Pdif at the same time._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can output to both the analog and spdif at the same time._

 

Excellent thank you both.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keithw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent thank you both._

 

Your welcome..


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxpro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I signed up for an account on head-fi just to comment about the Xonar Essence STX. This sound card is AMAZING. The performance "out of the box" (default stock configuration in hardware and drivers) is better than any sound card I have ever heard or tested, and I have heard/tested about 20-30 of them now while looking for the perfect solution for my hi-fi HTPC setup. My goal was to go with a soundcard with balanced analog output (so I can remove any extra D/A-A/D conversion steps), so the Essence STX was the last card I tried due to its lack of balanced outputs.

 I put the Essence STX in my HTPC, connected to a Crown XLS-402 amplifier via RCA-to-XLR cables (standard RCA "line" output on Essence), then to a few different pairs of speakers. 

 The first pair was my inherited set of mint Klipsch Belles (purchased brand new by my father in 1974 from Paul Klipsch himself). The sound was amazing. Crystal-clear, excellent separation and staging, extended rich and accurate bass, treble with amazing clarity and totally lacking in harshness, etc. It sounds so good that I just sat there and listened to about 10-20 albums in a row, I mean I wasted an entire day just listening to music (a very good sign when you've just purchased new gear). Turned the amp up until my decibel meter read 120db to see if I could hear distortion or if it would sound fatiguing, and then played a FLAC copy of the London Symphony playing the 1812 Overture with real cannon fire. It sounded awesome, with no distortion at all, and was surprisingly very easy to listen to. 

 Don't know what you guys are talking about when you say the JRC opamps lack bass extension. The cannon fire was powerful enough to knock dishes out of my cabinets, knocked a few pictures off the walls, and overall impressed the living hell out of me. Likewise, when the police arrived due to a noise complaint, one of the cops had his hand on his gun and said he had heard gunfire while approaching my house. I played the track for them and they got a big kick out of it and then asked me to turn it down.

 Next was a pair of PSB Stratus Golds. Same experience. I noticed no weakness at all in the source, at any volume. The only thing I could comment on with the PSBs was that it sounded like the sound suffered a little bit of an excessive decay in the lower treble registers, and the upper midrange was a little boomy - but I believe that is due to the design of the PSBs, not the analog signal coming out of my sound card. The separation is phenomenal however, you can hear each instrument distinctly and clearly. It has amazing 3-dimensional staging, and the sound-stage is wide and deep, extending well past the side and rear walls of my listening room.

 I can't say enough about this card. It is an amazing deal at $200. I have NEVER heard sound this good from my HTPC.

 What's even crazier is that I'm now running unbalanced analog from the RCA output on the Essence to the XLR inputs on my Crown amp, and TOTALLY LOVING IT. I'm not going to change a thing. I never thought I would run unbalanced analog cables in my system again, after swapping to balanced a long time ago. But there is truly no distortion in the original signal, it's cleaner than the balanced XLRs I was running from the EMU 1212m.

 To test this theory, I again plugged in the Belle Klipsch's and turned my amp all the way up and turned the PC audio all the way up, without playing anything. With the EMU 1212m, I can hear very quiet hissing and an extremely quiet hum with my ear pressed against the speakers (this is with the balanced analog cables). With the Xonar Essence STX, I hear nothing. Needless to say, it amazes me that I have less noise with unbalanced RCAs on the Essence than I did with balanced XLR on the EMU 1212m. 

 I know some people will say, well, balanced analog is going to be +4db, versus the -10db of the unbalanced. I have only one response to this. When you are pushing over 400 watts RMS to a speaker with 105db of sensitivity, you are going to hear EVERYTHING, regardless of whether your input is +4/-10db. Trust me.

 I can't recommend this card enough. It's the best current hi-fi sound card on the market, hands-down, and I've tried everything: the Juli@, Emu 1212m, an offboard DAC1 (overpriced and overrated IMHO), the HT Omega Claro, Creative X-Fi, a few Auzentech cards, you name it. No other card has come close to the Essence STX in pure audio quality to this point._

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. A good read.

 Regarding the stock JRC2114. I thought they had the most bass out of any opamps I tried and the quality was great for the amount of quantity they output. But, I think overall, the LME49720NA undoubtedly sounded better. I recommend you try them out, but be preprared to give up some bass quantity for overall quality and a substantial increase in soundstaging.


----------



## ROBSCIX

..Or grab buy get yourself some LME49720*HA* on adapters.


----------



## s2kphile

^^^how much would that cost ROB?

 I haven't followed the thread that much lately. But it seems that you guys are saying the 49720HA are better. Why? How does it differ from other OPAMPS?


----------



## hawaya

Today modifications:

 3-opa-earth with custom fixing on board, and also change the original dip8 sockets direct on PCB, with better one, that meаn NO MORE WARANTY!!!.

Snimka.bg: asus xonar - Äðóãè - hawaya

 The sound became more clearer than before with gd-audio 10cm cables.


----------



## riderforever

Does the CS2000 chip to reduce jitter on the ST affect also the S/PDIF output, or just the RCA analog outputs?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *s2kphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^how much would that cost ROB?

 I haven't followed the thread that much lately. But it seems that you guys are saying the 49720HA are better. Why? How does it differ from other OPAMPS?_

 

It depends. They are good opamps but there are lots of great opamps out there. The LME49720 is in the same family as the LM4562 and the HA version is the best of the bunch (To-99, DIP8,SOIC) based on testing.


----------



## Mordeous

6 months has passed, since I got my STX, and 1x LT1364 + 2x LM6172 to go with it (suggested by Alydon)

 I've absolutely enjoyed my card, and I wouldnt live without it.

 Robscix,

 I mainly returned to the thread to get up to speed on the whole OPAMP testing thing - A whole lot of testing, and a whole lot of posting has been done, since then.

 Any chance you could do me a quick and dirty recap on the current situation on what stock OPAMP's people are using? - I noticed you started modding stuff yourself? - I gotta say, that stuff looks amazing to me.

 Thanks in advance 

 //Mordeous


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mordeous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6 months has passed, since I got my STX, and 1x LT1364 + 2x LM6172 to go with it (suggested by Alydon)

 I've absolutely enjoyed my card, and I wouldnt live without it.

 Robscix,

 I mainly returned to the thread to get up to speed on the whole OPAMP testing thing - A whole lot of testing, and a whole lot of posting has been done, since then.

 Any chance you could do me a quick and dirty recap on the current situation on what stock OPAMP's people are using? - I noticed you started modding stuff yourself? - I gotta say, that stuff looks amazing to me.

 Thanks in advance 

 //Mordeous_

 

Some have been testing out the LT1057's on this card. Other have been getting good results with the LME49720HA's in adapters. I have been testing out the Dual LME49710HA's in adapters which I build custom.
 OPA2107's are also good opamps from the feedback aroudn here. Other People have been working with discrete opamps, which are built from components. 

 Thanx for the kinds words, I have been modding and working with opamps for quite a few years now.
 I just don't usually mention it as I modand build for my own gear and personal testing. I give suggestion here and there based on my own testing though.
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Mordeous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some have been testing out the LT1057's on this card. Other have been getting good results with the LME49720HA's in adapters. I have been testing out the Dual LME49710HA's in adapters which I build custom.
 OPA2107's are also good opamps from the feedback aroudn here. Other People have been working with discrete opamps, which are built from components. 

 Thanx for the kinds words, I have been modding and working with opamps for quite a few years now.
 I just don't usually mention it as I modand build for my own gear and personal testing. I give suggestion here and there based on my own testing though.
 Hope this helps._

 

Thanks for the info Rob.

 Yeah, this helps - Gives me some points as what to look into.

 Do you have any personal experience with dt880 and the stx? - I mean, which opamps would go well with it - Or am i still good with my current ones?

 //Mordeous


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad to help. 
 Nope no experince testing that combo...
 If you like what your using great. If you want to try out some new ones...Never hurts.


----------



## riderforever

Playing around with RMAA I've noticed that with the Burson as output buffer the Stereo Crosstalk falls down to 53dB, against a value of 115dB with the lm4562! All the other parameters (noise, frequency response) are quite similar. Is it normal?


----------



## leeperry

yeah, I was told the same thing about Burson's on the Prodigy HD2. it would reach 60 dB crosstalk.

 the story says that vynil is 35 dB anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but more importantly, how is the sound? narrower soundstage?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Playing around with RMAA I've noticed that with the Burson as output buffer the Stereo Crosstalk falls down to 53dB, against a value of 115dB with the lm4562! All the other parameters (noise, frequency response) are quite similar. Is it normal?_

 

It depends on the design of the Burson unit. The LM4562NA is a very high spec opamp and can get some high numbers in this circuit. There are many other opamps that you could try that would give you better sound but may raise some of the values. This may be normal for this unit in this circuit.
 Do you like the sound of the Burson unit over the LM4562?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, I was told the same thing about Burson's on the Prodigy HD2. it would reach 60 dB crosstalk.

 the story says that vynil is 35 dB anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but more importantly, how is the sound? narrower soundstage?_

 

Crosstalk is NOT "Crossfeed" it has little to do with the soundstage.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on the design of the Burson unit. The LM4562NA is a very high spec opamp and can get some high numbers in this circuit. There are many other opamps that you could try that would give you better sound but may raise some of the values. This may be normal for this unit in this circuit.
 Do you like the sound of the Burson unit over the LM4562?_

 

Definitely, I find it more relaxed, less harsh in the high frequencies, delivering a more textured sound.




 I think the next step will be the Audio-Gd clock.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely, I find it more relaxed, less harsh in the high frequencies, delivering a more textured sound.




 I think the next step will be the Audio-Gd clock._

 

I had good results when testing with discrete also. Some people incorrectly base too much weight on the specifications. 
 There are opamps with great specs that sound awful. Boring, dead,sterile..cold etc.

 There are other units with less stellar specifications that sound great, offering life and musicality.
 Those that are new to opamps, think they can just browse the spec sheets and judge units this way without any testing, sorry but it doesn't work that way.

 As for the clock, it is not as hard as you would think. Many XO are just two wires...some are three but stil a very simple device to change. Althoguh if you think you cannot do the mod, I would advise you take it to another as you can seriously damage your card. I think another member tested out the card with either no XO or a malfunctioning XO and all audio came through at incorrect speeds. Not Good.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had good results when testing with discrete also. Some people incorrectly base too much weight on the specifications. 
 There are opamps with great specs that sound awful. Boring, dead,sterile..cold etc.

 There are other units with less stellar specifications that sound great, offering life and musicality.
 Those that are new to opamps, think they can just browse the spec sheets and judge units this way without any testing, sorry but it doesn't work that way.

 As for the clock, it is not as hard as you would think. Many XO are just two wires...some are three but stil a very simple device to change. Althoguh if you think you cannot do the mod, I would advise you take it to another as you can seriously damage your card. I think another member tested out the card with either no XO or a malfunctioning XO and all audio came through at incorrect speeds. Not Good._

 

I confirm about the opamps to look just on the data sheets is a mistake. There is a study of some guy out there that shows tests and measurements of THD+N of all sorts of opamps. The discrete ones are in general in this tests not good. But I would say the discrete ones sound more natural, warm like. The music is alive, dynamic, musical, not death linear.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Exactly. Any one measurment such as THD is just a part of a very large puzzle.
 There are many opamps which may have higher values and yet still sound just amazing this includes the discretes.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a study of some guy out there that shows tests and measurements of THD+N of all sorts of opamps. The discrete ones are in general in this tests not good. But I would say the discrete ones sound more natural, warm like. The music is alive, dynamic, musical, not death linear._

 

and same goes for the ST/STX RMAA measurements...they look good, but good RMAA figures don't mean bestest sound -by a long shot-.

 it would indeed prolly take some pricey burson's and hack the XO to get something really nice sounding...yet, the drivers will still suck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but Asus says they use the best HP amp in their commercial bs(yet it's still a $2.25 IC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and that their card yields stellar measurements...they prolly forgot to say that it sounds "digital" to death and harsh too...thoppa would blame it on the caps, and some other very knowledgeable ppl I know are also really not fond of the Essence SQ. I don't listen to sine waves.

 I don't mean to troll, but at least I keep the usual asus rep busy


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I confirm about the opamps to look just on the data sheets is a mistake. There is a study of some guy out there that shows tests and measurements of THD+N of all sorts of opamps. The discrete ones are in general in this tests not good. But I would say the discrete ones sound more natural, warm like. The music is alive, dynamic, musical, not death linear._

 

Speaking of discretes, I have been testing out a few modules, both consumer models and a custom unit using a few cards and I am very happy with the results. I can understand why you prefer the bursons over the stock opamps. Although they may not measure as good as some of the higher spec opamps they definately have some great sound quality.


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of discretes, I have been testing out a few modules, both consumer models and a custom unit using a few cards and I am very happy with the results. I can understand why you prefer the bursons over the stock opamps. Although they may not measure as good as some of the higher spec opamps they definately have some great sound quality._

 

Exactly!!! One of the best sounding DAC, the Zanden has awful measurements results.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they prolly forgot to say that it sounds "digital" to death and harsh too..._

 

Did Asus crap in your serials or something?


----------



## ROBSCIX

He is trolling....

 Kind if a 180 after all the postive postings about both the STX and ST he put in just about every thread around here!


----------



## riderforever

Playing around with the RMAA, I've noticed another "strange" thing: in the Frequency Response multitone test the left channel is about .2dB higher than the right one! Modifying the balance from 100-100 to 98-100 (L/R) in the windows audio panel does improve the things, lowering the gap to .05dB.

 Here are the figures in the two configurations.



 



 Does someone has noticed this on his Essence as well?


----------



## abelincoln

Hello, fellow STX owners. I'm having a little trouble with my card; wondering if anybody else has had this problem.

 Listening to music, the volume seems to go up and down kind of in waves. I really only notice it in loud passages and it's not like it's completely ruining the sound. My wife doesn't notice it, but it's bugging me enough that I'm finally RMA'ing the card.

 Besides that, when I got the card it had scuff marks on the back around some solder joints and the solders in general looked pretty dull. Finally, it was tough to connect the atx power connector and it didn't go down that far--although the card won't work at all w/o power so this probably isn't my problem.

 I'm hoping I just got the one bad apple in the bunch and that they'll send me a good replacement.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Makes sure you turn off the "SVM" that is what your hearing. Atelast I think that is the trouble. The SVM, takes lower soudn and ups then and takes loud soudn and lowers them. trying to keep everythign at one volume and while good for say a movies late a night, for music it is strange. The setting is right under the volume control...is it enabled?
 If so turn it off and check to see if the cards sounds normal.

 Wait, did you already send the card back?


----------



## abelincoln

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to check on that. Although I think I turned off anything that could be detrimental to the sound. Also, doesn't enabling the Hi-Fi (think that's their terminology) profile disable such things?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, but I am not sure if it disbles SVM... The way your describing the sound going up and down. Seems like this is your issue. Maybe not though.


----------



## Shahrose

Just installed the LME49710HA in the buffer and LME49720HA in the I/V. I think these are keepers. They have a similar sound signature as the LME49720NA, but with a larger, more holographic soundstage (readily noticeable) and less mid-bass emphasis while retaining deep bass extension. The treble I feel is a tad bit more prominent but without sibilance. I don't want to speak too soon, but from my initial listening impressions, I think these are among the best opamps I've used so far on the STX, and I own a lot of opamps (see profile). I'll update my impressions as I get accustomed to their sound and get a chance to re-install my old favourites (3xLME49720) to do the final comparison. Also note that these things clearly have less bass than the LME49720NA combo, but the quality is great and without rolloff. In fact, I think that's the only thing I can find fault with as of now is that lack of mid-bass. This is a good thing for some recordings but bad for others, truly a double-edged sword. I will try the LME49710HA with the LME49720NA in the I/V because I remember the same weak mid-bass when I tried the LME49720HA alone in the I/V, so I think they might be the culprit.

 Edit: As I suspected, the LME49710HA in the buffer with 2xLME49720NA sounds better than the LME49720HA in the I/V, with a smoother treble and more bass and midrange presence. The LME49710HA are excellent in the buffer spot though. They sound quite noticeably better than any other opamp in the buffer and mate well with the LME49720NA.

 Thanks to ROBSCIX who supplied these to me for a pretty amazing price. Build quality is superb, as expected. The man knows what he's doing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad your enjoying them.


----------



## abelincoln

Well, it turns out it isn't SVM. I'm going to go ahead and send back the card. Hopefully in another couple weeks I'll have a replacement.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, if it isn't the SVM then you have something else that is the issue. Get a new one.


----------



## riderforever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abelincoln* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it turns out it isn't SVM. I'm going to go ahead and send back the card. Hopefully in another couple weeks I'll have a replacement._

 

You may run RMAA before to see if anything wrong appears in the test 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Like a very bad SNR, dynamic range, or frequency response.


----------



## abelincoln

Thanks for the RMAA suggestion. Didn't know what that was. I think I might have to run down to radio shack for a loopback cable. Anything I need to do to get it to work with the STX? I see the test guide for the Xonar D2 on rightmark's site.


----------



## riderforever

You can follow that guide for sure!
 The only thing you need is a loopback cable to connect the RCA out to 6,3 mm jack line-in


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Playing around with the RMAA, I've noticed another "strange" thing: in the Frequency Response multitone test the left channel is about .2dB higher than the right one! Modifying the balance from 100-100 to 98-100 (L/R) in the windows audio panel does improve the things, lowering the gap to .05dB.

 Here are the figures in the two configurations.



 



 Does someone has noticed this on his Essence as well?_

 

No problem here, this is what I get:


----------



## abelincoln

Well, I got the cable hooked up and the Xonar control panel set up according to the guide but RMAA couldn't run it's test. The volume levels kept going up and down. I mean, every time RMAA's meter refreshed (once a second or whatever) it would be either up or down-- a jump of pretty much half the meter. At least this explains what I've heard.

 Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'm still sending back the card but I've learned a lot in the process and am glad that this problem isn't very common.


----------



## riderforever

At least now you are sure that something is wrong on the hardware side and it's not just a software misconfiguration... Hope the Essence will be back soon and fully working!


----------



## abelincoln

Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to a problem with the STX...

 Now I'm thinking it's my PSU that's the problem. I tried plugging another power connector (sata style with converter) into the STX and the levels were much better in RMAA. They only bobbed up and down maybe one or two bars. RMAA now says there's a problem with crosstalk but advises that it could be due to the cable.

 My PSU is a 330W Seasonic S12 II. I figured that's plenty of power for an nVidia 9400 / Intel E7300 C2D system. But I'm sure it's a single 12V rail design. Now I'm wondering if there's any sense in getting a much larger PSU and putting the STX on it's own rail.


----------



## leeperry

if RMAA whines about crosstalk, usually it's some misconfiguration in the fancy drivers GUI from my experience. tried to follow exactly the RMAA manual for the D2? 330W really isn't much, but the STX only needs a fistful of watts anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but maybe your HDD is polluting one of your PSU rails..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abelincoln* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to a problem with the STX...

 Now I'm thinking it's my PSU that's the problem. I tried plugging another power connector (sata style with converter) into the STX and the levels were much better in RMAA. They only bobbed up and down maybe one or two bars. RMAA now says there's a problem with crosstalk but advises that it could be due to the cable.

 My PSU is a 330W Seasonic S12 II. I figured that's plenty of power for an nVidia 9400 / Intel E7300 C2D system. But I'm sure it's a single 12V rail design. Now I'm wondering if there's any sense in getting a much larger PSU and putting the STX on it's own rail._

 

Croosstalk can mean a few things. First check and mak sure your recording for the proper input. This is usually the issue...


----------



## di_andrei

This has probably been asked before but I couldn't find the answer, what are the differences between the STX and the ST? I can get the STX now, but should I wait for the ST if all I do is listen to music and play games on the PC, with the occasional film from time to time?


----------



## Bojamijams

ST uses the PCI bus, has an option to add an extra card that will do 7.1 analog audio and has a lower jitter clock

 STX uses PCI-E bus and doesn't have the other two options


----------



## di_andrei

Thanks for the reply. PCI vs PCIe is not an issue for me and I don't think I'll go for the add-on card. What difference does the clock make?


----------



## ROBSCIX

They are both excellent soundcards. You should be happy with either one.


----------



## Bojamijams

Well this isn't going to be too popular but after comparing the STX with my iphone 3gs, I have to say, I like the iphone.. a fair bit. And the iphone is considered bright but I have to say, its darker then the STX. The bass with stock opamps through the HP out is really dissapointing me now. It hasn't before as I hadn't compared the two but now that I have, I'm finding it lacking.

 This is with the JH|13 Pro headphones.

 I'll soon be redoing my water loop (finally) and will have easy access to the STX for op-amp swapping... I'll be soldering up the HA's and putting them in the I/V .. that should add the bass from what I've read

 I'm thinking its just bad synergy with the JH-13's that are making them sound brighter then I'd like with the STX HP out

 Anyone else feel like the stock STX HP out is on the bright side? Perhaps heavily so?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well personal tastes vary. I think this gets into the realm of liking a signatures that measure lower then a signature of a products that measuers better.

 Sounds like you need to roll new opamps as you mentioned or use the line outs. I have never really used the headphone output aside from simple testing.
 Maybe an external can amplifier might give you what your after.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this isn't going to be too popular but after comparing the STX with my iphone 3gs, I have to say, I like the iphone.. a fair bit. And the iphone is considered bright but I have to say, its darker then the STX. The bass with stock opamps through the HP out is really dissapointing me now. It hasn't before as I hadn't compared the two but now that I have, I'm finding it lacking.

 This is with the JH|13 Pro headphones.

 I'll soon be redoing my water loop (finally) and will have easy access to the STX for op-amp swapping... I'll be soldering up the HA's and putting them in the I/V .. that should add the bass from what I've read

 I'm thinking its just bad synergy with the JH-13's that are making them sound brighter then I'd like with the STX HP out

 Anyone else feel like the stock STX HP out is on the bright side? Perhaps heavily so?_

 

There's no way I'm going to fault the JH13's for what you're hearing, so I'm going to chalk this up to bad synergy. I've heard the iPhone and iTouch as well as several of the old generation of iPods (having owned some) and they fall short of touching the STX in my setup.

 BTW, the HA's aren't good for bass. In fact, for overall sound, I personally think 3xLME49720NA are still the best. For detail and a neutral (but light) bass presentation, the LME49710HA are best. The LME49720HA I don't really like as they sound like brighter, thinner, and compressed versions of the 49720NA.


----------



## dex85

^^that goes for line-out though. since he is going to use HP out, my guess is he will like 720HA better than NA. more bass, not as harsh as NA


----------



## ROBSCIX

Maybe that is the trouble. Bad match with the headphone amplifier chip to give him what he wants. The amp chip has it's own siganture and when used in the circuit that also has to be considered. If bass is what you want there are other opamps that bring tha bass.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^that goes for line-out though. since he is going to use HP out, my guess is he will like 720HA better than NA. more bass, not as harsh as NA_

 

Ah yes, an important point I failed to read.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe that is the trouble. Bad match with the headphone amplifier chip to give him what he wants. The amp chip has it's own siganture and when used in the circuit that also has to be considered. If bass is what you want there are other opamps that bring tha bass._

 

Agreed.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LME49720/LM4562 can be a bit light in the bass end depending on you gear.
 There are other opamps that are more heavy in the bass region. Again, this is depending on your personal gear. If your current opamps aren't giving you the sound signature your looking for with the can amp chip...try other opamps. Alternately you can go with the line out or the line out and external can amp depending ont he needs of your headphones.


----------



## Bojamijams

Well the Line Out is feeding the Audioengine A5's .. and the only way to get a headphone amp in that mix is to use the Loop Out on the A5's to feed an external amp .. and that just seems like too much 'pass through' usage.. especially since I have no idea how the loop out inside the A5's looks like.. 

 After some consideration I'm going to hold out for an op-amp swap for now.. I have the HifiMan 801 coming soon and will most likely be using that as my main desktop and portable headphone setup and I like the sound right now with the line-out through to my A5's and don't really wish to change it.

 Hmm so umm.. I guess the TL;DR version is... nothing to see here, carry on


----------



## dex85

^^it would be great if you could do a comparison between HifiMan and STX once you get it. i would be very interested in it since 801 looks like a mighty portable player 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: i just tried stock op-amps after some time. i have to say bass of JRC is more convincing than that of the 720 HA. quantity-wise i would say jrc leads at lower bass and has a better extension, while HA leads at mid and upper bass. but HA bass sounds kinda weird, it lacks depth and doesn't sound very natural. besides bass, comparison made me realize that HA has a weird coloration in mids (my rough guess would be around 2 kHz), violin in Toss the Feathers by Corrs has higher pitch than it should. regardless of all, HA remains my favorite op-amp for HP out. It offers sheer musicality thanks to its superb speed and liquid signature.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thanks for that update 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes I"ll compare the 801 with the STX


----------



## abelincoln

I just got my replacement STX back yesterday. It sounds a lot more solid--no more fluttering volume, although I haven't checked it out with RMAA yet.

 I was reading through the other STX thread and Lee Perry said something about hearing a strange noise when he first got his card and swapped opamps straight off without trying out the stock configuration first. Since that's exactly what I did, maybe there's something to letting it burn in with the JRC opamps.

 Looking forward to trying out the LME49720NAs. Mine should be in the mail right now. Two quick questions--it sounds like the NAs are better than the HAs for line out? Also, is it best to use three 720s or just two for the I/V and leave the buffer (?) opamp the same? Again, this is for line out.

 Thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well, you definatley had a issue with the card. Bad DAC, bad caps or opamps..something was not functioning properly thats for sure.

 If a opamp was malfunctioning or osciallting, it wouldn't start operating properly because It "burned-in". Some say opamps never burn in. Some say they do. There is a opamp thread I started in the DIY section, there are many there with great expertise in opamps and I sugegst you ask there if you want explanations or other info related to opamps. May help for you.

 Some like the NA's better then the HA's for the line outs.

 The LM4562NA that is in your buffer is exactly the same as the LME49720NA. This is according to National Semi, they told me the only difference is the paint on the label.


----------



## Duperman

Is this STX currently the best pci-e card for 2 channel sound? It's +100$ more than the DX at my local shop. is it more targeted for the headphone amp? 

 I got my DX working btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 don't know if the stx would sound even better, my speakers are the bx5a.

 edit: on 2nd thought i'm getting ahead of myself, I'll stick with this for now


----------



## ROBSCIX

The STX is far beyond the DX. Your comparing the entry level to one of the flagship models...


----------



## Juupeli

phew finally done, 131 pages in 2 days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 got my card in post with AKG K 702, my first proper headphones.
 Ordered some opamps last night, but it was waaay late and can't even remember which ones. Think it was some that were mentioned around half way through the topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Only see few mentions of the card and k702, so anyone done more exclusive test with different opamps to recommend for mentioned headphones?
 Thanks in advance, and yeh i'am new to the forums. 

 ps. English ain't my native language so my wording might sound bit rude sometimes even thou i don't mean it, we finns aren't known for using pretty words


----------



## dex85

^^i've been using K701 with STX. i prefer LME49720HA for headphone out over any other op-amp i've tried (not so many though). but that's me, your preference may vary.


----------



## Juupeli

okies i'll keep that in mind and thanks for the fast reply.

 now bit OT, have you had chance to compare STX and any of the "reasonably" priced external amps that are recommended for 701/702, like Heed CanAmp?


----------



## Bmac

Juupeli, I find the somewhat bass-heavy stock JRC2114's work quite well with the somewhat bass-light K701. They get a bad rap here for some reason but they aren't bad; the bass is a little slow, but they've been used in many good CD players for a reason. 

 After lots of experimenting I've been using 3 x OPA2107 for a while now and I'm really enjoying them. Presentation is similar to stock, but the bass is a little lighter and faster. I tried the 49720NA, and while many people here enjoy them, there was not enough bass for me, and with the K701 the soundstage, while HUGE, sounded artificial to me. The K701's have a pretty big soundstage to begin with, so I found the 49720NA's just too much.

 As with anything audio though, YMMV. Have fun finding what works for you.


----------



## Bojamijams

I just checked ASUS' website to get Win7 drivers as I'll be setting up my new system soon and it seems they're dated 10/05/09 .. I'm hoping it means October 5th and not May 10th but worth a look if you're having trouble right now to see if the 'new' driver fixes them.


----------



## dex85

^^+1 on JRC2114 having good bass synergy with K701. i also agree on 49720NA. on the other side, 49720HA compared to NA, soundstage is not as wide, bass is not as timid despite sounding a little weird and i very much enjoy the liquid signature it offers with K701.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just checked ASUS' website to get Win7 drivers as I'll be setting up my new system soon and it seems they're dated 10/05/09 .. I'm hoping it means October 5th and not May 10th but worth a look if you're having trouble right now to see if the 'new' driver fixes them._

 

it's october, they are new. i wasn't using the old beta drivers because i found sound to be different compared to vista drivers. these new beta drivers are fine though.


----------



## Wfolio

anyone using OPA637 with STX?

 OPA637 sound great but seem to be problematic. I had tried OPA637BM on Audiotrak DAC. when i switched to the low gain headphone output, it produced a 'buzzing noise'. I quickly off the unit and unplugged the headphone.

 It will also 'buzz' in I/V stage. However on lineout or buffer stage, OPA637BM is much better than LME49710HA.

 Itching to try OPA637BM on STX, but not sure if STX have enough gain to avoid oscillation or not. not sure if I happen to 'buzz' it again will damage this costly opamp that I bough from farnell or not.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have tried the OPA637 but it is not stable for I/V. Whatyou are hearing is osillation as the 637 has no internal compensation. You will not be able to use any varient of the 637 on the I/V. Personally, I would take the LME49710HA for buffer.
 Think that is costly check out the 647SM...


----------



## Wfolio

my biggest problem now is that i/v sockets are too close, temporary I'm stacking 4x DIP sockets to raise one of I/V so that I can fit in two browndog adaptors (compact version), one on top & one below, not sure if you can imagine it.

 the result of using 4xLME49710HA on i/v is very good & I like to stick with this. 

 had also tried extension wire , but adaptors are hanging & don't look safe, I think may drop out.

 any suggestions for a better solution to fit in the two adaptors, thanks


----------



## Gilly

This seems like one of the more interesting "niche" (not everyone is an audiophile) products on the market. Just interested, with nothing special done to it (meaning like making an external PSU, just using a molex off a good quality PSU), how would this stack up to a modified X-Fi card?

 Talking shorted caps, opamp and replaced capacitor.

 My personal music library consists of mostly flac and some 320k mp3's, ranging from rock, death metal etc. Lamb of God, System of a Down, Muse, generally anything under the wide banner of Rock.

 And what sort of money is the card "worth", meaning, roughly how much would you expect to pay for a similar quality DAC and amp and cabling for say some AKG 701's or 702's maybe AD2000 AT's or Denon 2000's? Does it have enough oomph to run the AKG's properly? Or is this no match for even lower end dedicated items? Maybe I should be asking how well it runs Grado's considering my musical taste 

 I dont want a bucket load of extra gubbins lying around, and am prepared to forgoe the extra quality for now with just having 1 item. 

 Thank you!


----------



## Bmac

I have no idea how the STX compares to a modified X-Fi, but stock vs. stock the STX is _much_ better. The DAC in the STX is superior, so even a modified X-Fi won't come close in terms of SNR etc.

 I have the K701 and the STX can drive them without any problems. As for how much the STX is worth in comparable quality external equipment, I won't comment because it's very subjective.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wfolio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my biggest problem now is that i/v sockets are too close, temporary I'm stacking 4x DIP sockets to raise one of I/V so that I can fit in two browndog adaptors (compact version), one on top & one below, not sure if you can imagine it.

 the result of using 4xLME49710HA on i/v is very good & I like to stick with this. 

 had also tried extension wire , but adaptors are hanging & don't look safe, I think may drop out.

 any suggestions for a better solution to fit in the two adaptors, thanks_

 

Yes, I have the cards so I know exactly what your taking about. I also prefer the LME49710HA and like to use them on these cards. The extension work for a makeshift solution but it requires somethign a bit more solid. What I find would be easy for what your doing is put the card in the lowest slot. Get some of the sheilding packages that opamps come in. Put that on the bottom of your case. Let the opamps rest on that. Just a suggestion.
 I have a few ideas I am working and and I will keep you posted...


----------



## Bojamijams

Please keep all of us posted... I'm still interested in getting two pairs of those 710's from you


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

Hi,

 I just want to offer you my burson opamps whit m-caps!
 If someone is interested, please PM!

 Thanks.


----------



## Bmac

I'm interested. PM Sent!


----------



## Wfolio

Spent some time listening to LME47910HA, OPA637BM & OPA627SM

 started off with a pair of LME47910HA in buffer, taken aback by the sound quality, then I added two more pairs in the I/V, this certainly take the quality to another level.

 I read a lot about OPA627, from what I gathered, AP/BP is quite laid back, BM is not bad, SM obviously improve most area of BM. So I got myself 2pcs of OPA627SM. Having fun comparing it with LME47910HA (in buffer) for the past few days.

 LME47910HA is sharper and has a slightly heavier bass line. OPA627SM is tonally softer & less aggressive, resolution is finer, instruments position is better define. No doubt musical structure presented by OPA627SM is by far more sophisticated. But depends on music & taste, I think some may prefer the livelier LME47910HA.

 Too bad, I don't have the SM version of OPA637, it will more interesting if I can compare 637SM vs 627SM.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I really enjoy the LME49710HA and a few here are using them also for various circuits.
 I have both 627 and 637SM versions. I enjoy there sound but have been going for a different type of response these days. Something a little closer to the LME49710HA.

 Can I ask how you have been using the LME49710HA in I/V?


----------



## digitor

Hi Guys

 Just got a brand new system 3 days ago with the following specs: 
 Intel i7 860 
 ASUS P7P55D-LE
 Gigabyte GTS 250 1 GB PCIE
 Windows 7 PRO 32 Bit
 Kingston 4GB DDR 1333
 Logitech Z 2300 2.1 Speakers (carried on from the old system)

 Initially, the sound was through the motherboard which I found not that great (It was good but a bit brassy and dull). On reading extensive reviews, I got impressed by what Essence STX had to offer. Did the purchase and got the soundcard installed by the initial dealers (they forgot to plug in the STX with an internal 4 Pin Molex power supply, which I had to do myself). Downloaded the new drivers through the website and got the software installed. The PROBLEM now is that I cant seem to playback any music. Ive tried several players such as iTunes, Real, Windows etc but music seems to be playing without any sound (nothing happening in the Xonar Essence Sound Centre). Also, I tried doing a Test (for L & R speakers) through the Xonar Essence Sound Centre using my Logitech Z 2300's (which are working fine with my iPod). In the test, sound is played-back but only through the Left speaker (It says "Left" and "Right" but both times sound comes from only the Left speaker). I connected the 3.5 to RCA cable with my speaker system. Can anyone please help me, I feel like I've just wasted $230 (AU)? Thanks in anticipation.

 (p.s. - ASUS tech support is living upto its reputation)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Did you set up the windows control panel for the new soundcard?


----------



## digitor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you set up the windows control panel for the new soundcard?_

 

God love Windows 7 and you Rob, did some autorepair and lo and behold its working. Only one problem now, sound is still coming only from one speaker (of my Logitech Z 2300's). Could it be a compatibility issue? should I try plugging my speakers through the headphone socket? Thanx mate!

 p.s.- sound quality from one speaker is pretty awesome...


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I connected the 3.5 to RCA cable with my speaker system._

 

there are no 3.5 mm outs on STX. You need to use a pair of RCA to RCA connectors.


----------



## digitor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there are no 3.5 mm outs on STX. You need to use a pair of RCA to RCA connectors._

 

^ This problem has been resolved. Thanks for helping.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Guru, the card comes with a RCA to 3.5 mm for PC type speakers.

 @Digitor, what was your issue, the conenctions?


----------



## abelincoln

The saga of the fluttering volume continues--it came back the day after getting the replacement card. So I wanted to report back that it's at least not a problem with the STX. I've got another PSU on the way and if it's not that then I dunno...maybe it could be the motherboard? Very strange.


----------



## Gilly

is the case grounded properly?

 EMI interference? what graphics card?

 what brand of PSU?

 what connectors are you using on the sound card, and what do they go to?


----------



## KDE

STX isn't good card according to data sheets

 PCM1792A THD+N at 192 kHz: 0.0015%
 TPA6120A2 THD+N at 32 Ohm: 0.00055%
 JRC2114 THD: 0.0005 %%

 It has high distortion at 32 Ohm according to Xbit labs
Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review (page 7) - X-bit labs


----------



## abelincoln

The case is a Silverstone lc10b-e. It should be properly grounded--is there anything special you have to do? It's plugged into a tripp-lite power protector.

 Not sure about EMI interference. I've tried it with spread spectrum enabled and disabled. The graphics card is the internal nvidia geforce 9400 on the Gigabyte Ga-E7AUM-ds2h motherboard.

 PSU is a 330W Seasonic S12 II connected to one HDD (sata style power connector), one DVD+RW (ata molex connector), 3 Nexus 80mm 'real silent' case fans (cpu and case fan power on mobo, ata connector) and one Scythe Mini-Kaze (also ata connector).


----------



## Gilly

okay well I wonder if there is a lot of system traffic (with the integrated graphics card).

 also is there a dirty motor one of the fans?

 I'm not sure however, the power input stage on the card must get rid of some of the crap.

 those power supply's are quite good for ripple etc, afaik. 

 not 100% sure what to say. Load it up with ferrite cores i guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and you can check the ground with a multimeter, using AC 200V or 500V if your in Europe, check for ~110v across live and ground, and ~230v across if your in Europe. I can't see no ground causing problems (although my stuff goes to a water pipe) like that described, ground loops can cause buzzing and or pulsing (heard both happen with power amps and AV amps togeather).

 Hope we can come up with a solution for you togeather!


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_STX isn't good card according to data sheets

 PCM1792A THD+N at 192 kHz: 0.0015%
 TPA6120A2 THD+N at 32 Ohm: 0.00055%
 JRC2114 THD: 0.0005 %%

 It has high distortion at 32 Ohm according to Xbit labs
Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review (page 7) - X-bit labs_

 

good thing for you if can hear a difference between 0.0015% and 0.0025% THD. maybe you should have paid more attention to the conclusion of the review.

  Quote:


 When I had been listening to the Auzen X-Fi Prelude, I had not expected any card to surpass it. Later on, the ASUS Xonar D2 showed the weak aspects of the Prelude. And now, the Xonar Essence STX sounds better than the Xonar D2 and Prelude, and better than the X-Fi Elite Pro, and perhaps even better than any audio card in the world, but I still want some more! It is a shame that the Essence is just one step short of being perfect. It just needs better resistors and different operation amplifiers.


----------



## dlb0089

@abelincoln

 its probly fluctuating current from your psu. i would change it out for something with a little more reputable brand. I usually choose between Antec and Corsair myself. heres one by Antec called "Earthwatts", very efficient and clean, stable power, and great brand to boot. cost isnt too bad either

Newegg.com - Antec earthwatts EA380 380W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.0 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abelincoln* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The saga of the fluttering volume continues--it came back the day after getting the replacement card. So I wanted to report back that it's at least not a problem with the STX. I've got another PSU on the way and if it's not that then I dunno...maybe it could be the motherboard? Very strange._

 

hmm, I guess the power woudl be the next thing to check if you already replaced the card and are still having this issue. 
 IS the card on it's own tap? -Meaning a straight cable right from the PSU and NOT sharing with anything else which may be adding interference to the power?


----------



## abelincoln

Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a power supply on the way but it's been almost a week and BB still hasn't shipped it (should have ordered newegg but didn't want to pay the restocking fee if this doesn't solve my problem).

 dlb, I'm getting a Corsair this time but they're apparently made by Seasonic so hopefully it was just bad luck of the draw with my current one. Rob, I did try putting the card on it's own tap which meant unplugging my optical drive. Didn't make a difference.

 I usually just laugh at people on message boards having random problems with stuff that works fine for me so I guess this is my payback.


----------



## ROBSCIX

OK, that was just a suggestion. A buddy of mine had a good card but there was noticable high end distortion, well noticable to me. I could hear the cymblas just didn't sound right. They sounding like a frying egg with no ting to them.
 Check it out and he had his card on the same Pa as his HDD. The HDD was adding interference to the card. Soon as it was put on it's own the cymbals sounded how they should again.
 You have tried another slot etc? I am thinking you just need a cleaner PSU or maybe this one is giving up the ghost so the power it supplies is becoming unstable.
 Keep use posted.


----------



## abelincoln

Thanks, I'll definitely put the stx on it's own tap when I get the new PSU. My reason behind using the same tap for the stx and dvd drive was that I thought it wouldn't make a difference when the optical drive isn't in use but this probably isn't 100% true. I was even briefly looking into getting a double rail psu so I could put the card on it's own 12v rail but the thought of getting an 800W psu for an htpc makes me cringe.


----------



## KDE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good thing for you if can hear a difference between 0.0015% and 0.0025% THD._

 

There is much higher distortion at high output power.
 TPA6120A2 has 10% THD+N at 1.2 W output power and 64 Ohm load according to figure 7 at page 8 of data sheet. My 50 Ohm headphones has 3.5 W maximal input power.


----------



## dex85

well, my headphones have 200mW of maximum input power and i think in the real world usage it is much much less. i'm not ready to become deaf. 

 the thing is most external amplifiers won't give you 3.5W at 50 Ohms (not that you would ever need it, you put your headphones on your head when listening, right?). i think there are numbers of external amplifiers that won't even deliver 1.2W at 64 Ohm.


----------



## abelincoln

My problem seems to be solved. I installed the Corsair 450VX psu and measured the STX a couple of times in RMAA over the course of a week. 

 Everything seems fine except I realized that two of my fans were not working. I'm not sure if they were causing the problem in the first place but I'm going to replace them anyway.

 Getting rid of my NB fan by replacing the heatsink with a passively cooled Thermalright hr-05 ifx. The other fan is a second case fan and the cpu temperatures seem fine with it not working so I'm thinking I can just do without it.

 Hopefully this is the end of the saga of the fluttering volume. Thanks for all of the help.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abelincoln* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My problem seems to be solved. I installed the Corsair 450VX psu and measured the STX a couple of times in RMAA over the course of a week. 

 Everything seems fine except I realized that two of my fans were not working. I'm not sure if they were causing the problem in the first place but I'm going to replace them anyway.

 Getting rid of my NB fan by replacing the heatsink with a passively cooled Thermalright hr-05 ifx. The other fan is a second case fan and the cpu temperatures seem fine with it not working so I'm thinking I can just do without it.

 Hopefully this is the end of the saga of the fluttering volume. Thanks for all of the help._

 

...so it was the power supply afterall?
 Great you got it fixed.


----------



## KingFiercer

*2x LME49720NA*.
 Detailed sound, transperent and leaky bass, good treble.
 Not enough bass for me... Too sterile, the sound eventually wearies.

*2X LM6172IN*.
 More bass than 49720, but it sound unnaturally. Middle is smooth = weak guitar drive. Deaf treble, less beautiful... Narrow soundstage felt unnatural...

 Then I started to try the Line-Out with my 300-ohms cans...

*2x LME49720NA + LM4562* = not good
*2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D* = better, sound like 2x49720, but with more dense and strong bass.
*2x LME49720NA + LM6172IN* = 2x LME49720NA, but not dry and more volume bass, nice smooth treble, altogether more living and nice sound. Soundstage sounds cool - sounds are flying around... =) With external amplifier this will sound better, IMHO. =)

 Just tried other combinations:
*2хJRC2114D + LM6172IN* = sound is bold and low-detailed, but the bass hit well.
*2xJRC2114D + LME49720NA* = powerful bass, harsh sound, different from the HP-out's sound - a little less pointed treble and greater detail..
 Now listen again *2xLME49720NA* + *LM6172IN*, still more pleasant sound, not as harsh as the previous combination, but also with good bass. I'll stay with this combination.

 By the way, LM6172, in contrast to the LM4562, have flatter graph of noise in the treble zone.

 Added: Listening music full evening... Everything sounds great.


----------



## Agro

I have a dilemma here (or maybe not), I want to pair a set of DT990s with the Asus Xonar Essence STX, but from what i have heard the sound card by itself can only power up to 300 ohms? (Also, this soundcard's drivers are compatible with windows 7 32 bit, right?)
 Right now the DT990 600 ohm version is on sale for 240$, which is almost the same price as the DT990 250 ohm, which should i get if i only plan on running this sound card? Should i get the 600 ohm incase i ever decide to get another amplifier?

 Sorry if these questions have been asked, i looked through about 30-40 pages.


----------



## wali

STX has a top output level of 300 to 600 ohms for headphones. But you should go with a headphone of 600ohms and less to give you the headroom.

 There is no problem with win7 32 and 64 bit. 

 i have not listened to any of DT990 types, but with my Senn HD580 (300ohms) I'm extremely happy with STX headphone amp at the 300 to 600 ohms setting.


----------



## gurubhai

I have used the DTX with DT880 600ohm & it drives them fine . I don't have a dedicated amp to compare but its atleast as good as my Marantz AVR's headphone out.

 Infact the Xbit lab review suggested that the STX amp actually performs better when driving higher impedance cans.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

I just had a chance to slack off from my busy work and tried out the opamps that I ordered but had been lying around for a long time. So now I feel like sharing my impressions on the trials with everyone

 Getting straight to the point, my system includes the Essence STX (of course !) and Klipsch ProMedia GMX-A2.1 with Norstone CL400 speaker cable. The songs I tried are mainly Japanese female vocals and J-Rock. And here are the list of combinations I tried.

*LM4652NA + 2xOPA2132P*
 This was my initial setup before I tried anything else. I'll use its sound as the reference for my other combinations

*3xLME49720NA*
 The result was jaw-dropping in terms of surprise. I never expected to hear THAT much of a difference from just switching opamps. The previous setup sounded so muddy and ugly compared to this one. The 49720's were impressive in terms of treble and details. The sound was very, very detailed with the highs not less impressive; it was clear and crisp that I never imagined my speakers were capable of producing such tone. The separation of instruments was another strong point of 49720's where I said to myself that I'd never go back to the previous muddy setup. What's more is that the soundstage was also widened. The bass, conforming to what everyone says, was lacking. However, in that reduced amount of bass I noticed that it became tighter and no longer bloated. With the preamplifier of the speakers I have, this was welcomed and turned into another advantage where I could just turn up the bass level and achieved the same amount but with tighter sound. 

 It all sounded good except the fact that the vocal was very recessed. I tried listening to other songs with emphasis on vocals and they all sounded recessed. Trying not to make an overstatement here, but it was as if the vocalist was singing behind the drummer. The sound of the cymbals were even more prominent than the vocalist's. This is something I couldn't bare with as it'd ruin one of the most distinguished characteristics of the genres I listen to.

*LME49720 + 2xLT1358*
 Moving on to the next combination as I left the 49720 in the buffer and switched to LT1358 in the I/V section: The very first thing that struck me when I tried this matchup was the forwardness of the mids. The vocal was the complete opposite of what I heard earlier. Other instruments were playing far behind the vocalist. However, I noticed that the sparkling details, the crisp highs, the wide soundstage, and the great separation were no longer there. I'm not saying that they all sounded horrible; it was just that 3 of the 49720's did a really nice job in those aspects. It still sounded pleasant, but couldn't keep up with the previous setup. So I'd say that this setup sounded natural compared to all other ones I tried, but with very forward mids.

*LT1358 + 2xLME49720NA*
 This was the last combination I tried and it now stays in the chassis. What it did was a balance between the characteristics of the 49720's and the 1358's within my preference. It sports the lovely highs, details, separation, and soundstage of the 49720's while keeping everything in balance and positioning the vocalist at the right place. 

*Conclusion:*
*LM4652NA + 2xOPA2132P*: inferior to all of the setups I've tried
 Many people claim that LM4652NA makes a decent buffer, so maybe this was because of the OPA2132P's

*3xLME49720NA*: nice and clear treble, lots of details, wide soundstage, impressive separation but with very recessed vocals and lacking amount of bass

*LME49720 + 2xLT1358*: sounded natural with very forward mids

*LT1358 + 2xLME49720NA*: the great balance of the opamps I tried today


----------



## ROBSCIX

Welcome to the opamp club!


----------



## Agro

Thanks for the responses, i have another question.
 Is there a cheaper alternative soundcard to power Ultrasone Pro 750s? Do the 750s require a powerful amp? If it does i might as well just get the asus xonar essence.
 Thanks!


----------



## KingFiercer

Can anyone recommend a good op-amp for buffer, which fits well with 2xLME49720NA? 2xLME49720 in HP-Out have very good details, but lost some bass pressure. Headphones - Sennheiser HD 600. Maybe they just need a decent gain, and the bass will become as necessary with 3xLM49720NA? But I have no external amplifier yet, and I miss the strong bass of standard JRC2114D...
 With LM6172 in buffer STX provides a soft and very quiet bass, it's good for quiet listening, but I want a more powerful sound.


----------



## TuR3

With the headphone output the buffer is TI6120A2 so, if you want to change the sound signature, you have to change opamps in I/V section.


----------



## KingFiercer

I listen through line-out too. I understand that this is wrong, but the sound is good too.


----------



## wali

Try the headphone out at 300-600ohms setting with your HD600. You won't go back to line out again.


----------



## ccschua

can i know how good is this xonar funciton as digital transport ? what clock is it using and how is it compared to m2tech hiface??


----------



## KingFiercer

DELETED


----------



## KingFiercer

*wali*
 Wow... Really! With new op-amps 300-600 gaining change sound for the better.
 Very interesting. =) More volume, more punch bass, more drive with the same volume-level (16% 64-300 and 8% 300-600). Thank you!


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*wali*
 Wow... Really! With new op-amps 300-600 gaining change sound for the better.
 Very interesting. =) More volume, more punch bass, more drive with the same volume-level (16% 64-300 and 8% 300-600). Thank you!_

 

Glad to hear that. 

 You can also set the volume at 50% in xonar software and use foobar or whatever player you're using to adjust the volume... also make sure hi fi is enabled in xonar setting so all dsps are disabled. enjoy.


----------



## MintMouse

Where would one acquire OP-Amps for this card in the UK, anyone?


----------



## ROBSCIX

If you are a student or in the electronics industry you can get samples on certain units that you might like to test. 
 Look around for electronics houses that have the opamps you want. Some places are international and will ship where ever but that may be more expensive then finding a local distributor.
 Can I ask what units are you looking for?


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are a student or in the electronics industry you can get samples on certain units that you might like to test. 
 Look around for electronics houses that have the opamps you want. Some places are international and will ship where ever but that may be more expensive then finding a local distributor.
 Can I ask what units are you looking for?_

 

Hello Robscix, can I take a question? "I tried very OPamp in free samples of TI, National and linear but are not very happy with both sull'RCA in headphones. Burson heard of integrated and / or audio and gd for the price I would Whereas the latter ... ... you say it's worth, the sound has a real improvement or have only minor differences? Sorry for my English, but I am Italian and I'm using a translator for both writing and reading you. Thank


----------



## ROBSCIX

There are a few guys using the Audio-GD opamps on these cards and are quite pleased with the soudn quality. THere was a few peopel using the Bursons also...


----------



## MintMouse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are a student or in the electronics industry you can get samples on certain units that you might like to test. 
 Look around for electronics houses that have the opamps you want. Some places are international and will ship where ever but that may be more expensive then finding a local distributor.
 Can I ask what units are you looking for?_

 

Thanks for the tip.

 I'm basically just looking to try out some of the suggested ones from this thread. All I have is stock, atm.


----------



## Steve-o27

Quick question: If I replace the stock opams with two LM4562NAs will it make a huge difference, or should I search for two LME49720NA opamps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm using the headphone out + a pair of Sennheiser HD555s btw.


----------



## forciano

LME49720NA are pretty good, I really liked them specially for gaming.


----------



## Steve-o27

I'm really not a big fan of games, I mean I play a game now and then but I especially bought this soundcard for listening to music.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LM4562NA and LME49720NA are said to be the exact same amplifier with the only differences being the label. That information was suggested to me by the manufacturers of the chip. they also said they would have di-continued the LM lineup but the chip won many awards and is well known. No that being said some suggest they hear differences. We are only talking about the DIP8 versions as TO-99 would be of higher quality.


----------



## Steve-o27

Thanks for that ROBSCIX, the problem is that this friend of mine has only the LME49720*M*A version of the opamp which to my knowledge is not compatible with the dip8 socket so I'm stuck with the LM4562NA opamps. 
 A few people have told me that the difference between the LM4562NA and LME49720NA consists in the label but I didn't believe them because I knew they weren't experienced in this manner.

 PS: If I buy some speakers in the near future, can I keep the stock buffer which is a LM4562NA or do I have to change it?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can change it or keep the stock buffer. Although if you are considering using the LM4562NA in the I/V position using them in the buffer may be a bit much. As the aspects of the opamps will start to compound...if the opamps is bright, your sound will become really bright....etc However you may like the sound.
 When using the line outputs, usually buffers are choosen to compliment the opamps that are used for I/V conversion.


----------



## Steve-o27

I see... So basically if I have some bright opamps, like the 4562s, I may end up choosing some buffer that is more bass driven, correct? I also read that the buffer has no impact what so ever if I'm using the onboard headphone amp so basically the only real change in sound would be by changing the opamps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The buffer is not used when in headphones mode. When using the line output, you can use the buffer to tune the sound produced by the I/V.
 In line out mode, all three opamps are used. In headphone mode the buffer opamp is replaced by the can amplifier chip.


----------



## Steve-o27

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Will be back with some impressions as soon as I get my opamps!


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve-o27* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really not a big fan of games, I mean I play a game now and then but I especially bought this soundcard for listening to music._

 

Well they are great for music too, the reason I liked them more for games is because they gave me a wider soundstage in comparison to any other Opamp I have tried till this moment.

  Quote:


 The LM4562NA and LME49720NA are said to be the exact same amplifier with the only differences being the label. That information was suggested to me by the manufacturers of the chip. they also said they would have di-continued the LM lineup but the chip won many awards and is well known. No that being said some suggest they hear differences. We are only talking about the DIP8 versions as TO-99 would be of higher quality. 
 

I could certainly hear the differences right away, even with such an "untrained" ear.


----------



## Steve-o27

A quick update guys, I've just ordered 5 „free” LME49720NA samples from NS and I'm eagerly awaiting their arrival... How long do you guys think it may take them to ship the opamps to Romania? I payed like 8$ for handling and shipping using my credit card, I hope they didn't rip me off...


----------



## ROBSCIX

You'll get them. The LM49720NA are the same as the LM4562NA...
 If you use these for I/V they should give you a noticable improvement on your soudn quality.


----------



## Steve-o27

That's good to hear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I basically only need two (or three if I use one in the buffer spot) so I'll give the rest away for free for the ones in need. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to really hear the difference these boys make... I'll keep you posted as soon as these puppies arrive!


----------



## shimm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LM49720NA are the same as the LM4562NA..._

 

it seems like LME49860NA beats them all. So, ppl, don't waste your time and money for LM49720NA, LM4562NA anymore.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shimm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it seems like LME49860NA beats them all. So, ppl, don't waste your time and money for LM49720NA, LM4562NA anymore._

 

..it seems like that is an opinion and nothing more.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve-o27* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good to hear!  I basically only need two (or three if I use one in the buffer spot) so I'll give the rest away for free for the ones in need.  Can't wait to really hear the difference these boys make... I'll keep you posted as soon as these puppies arrive!_

 

If you are using the headphones then yes, you would onlt use the two opamps that are side by side. If you are using the line outs then you would use three but as I said the stock opamp is the same as the units you are ordering. You may not like the signature produces by using three of the same opamp int eh IV and single end buffer.


----------



## forciano

I just ordered a AD797BRZ to test on the buffer, lets see how that goes


----------



## shimm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..it seems like that is an opinion and nothing more._

 

It's based on another... yes, opinions. Need link to russian forum? :wink_face:


----------



## Steve-o27

Another quick question: Can I use one of the stock I/Vs from the card in the buffer spot after the new opamps have arrived? I read that the LME49720NA in the I/V spot + the JRC2114D make a pretty good team.


----------



## shimm

IMO, there is no place for 2114 in this card. You better stay with LM4562 in LPF.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


 Another quick question: Can I use one of the stock I/Vs from the card in the buffer spot after the new opamps have arrived? I read that the LME49720NA in the I/V spot + the JRC2114D make a pretty good team. 
 

you certainly can. i used to be running on 2xLME49720HA + JRC2114D @ buffer. while sound was ok in many areas, especially the tonality, JRC2114D has tendency to put a veil on music. other way around you will get more transparent sound, while keeping most of the tonality of the former. 

 a little reminder, 49720*H*A has slightly different character than 49720NA, so i wouldn't be surprised if you got same results with stock op-amps setup and the 2xJRC + 720NA setup.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shimm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's based on another... yes, opinions. Need link to russian forum? :wink_face:_

 

Point being you cannot say one is just the best and ignore the others.
 Many tried those awhile back in this thread and didn't really like them so they moved on.


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve-o27* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another quick question: Can I use one of the stock I/Vs from the card in the buffer spot after the new opamps have arrived? I read that the LME49720NA in the I/V spot + the JRC2114D make a pretty good team. _

 

Yes, you sure can. You understand that the JRC2114D's and the LME49720NA is the stock configuration right?

 As LME49720NA is exactly the same chip as the LM4562NA.


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## Steve-o27

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you sure can. You understand that the JRC2114D's and the LME49720NA is the stock configuration right?

 As LME49720NA is exactly the same chip as the LM4562NA._

 

Yes I understand what you are saying... I am thinking of replacing the STOCK JRC2114Ds with the new LME49720NAs and inserting one JRC2114D in the buffer spot so it would replace the stock LM4562NA. Basically the RCA output would be like this: 2 X LME49720NA (I/V) + JRC2114D (buffer). I dunno which person did this because I read it on the forum and said it was a nice setup. I would've gone for the LM6172IN for the buffer opamp but I can't get my hand on any of those here in audio ****hole Romania...

 LE: Here it is.


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## cent

LM4562 has bright warmer sound, harsh in the high and lack of bass.
  while LME49720HA has a serious vocal laid back compare to LME49720NA which has slightly laid back on vocal only.
  49720 is better for movie because of its better 2D sound but it is worse for certain music because of its unnatural high and sound fake for some instruments.
   
  I prefer 3 opa2111kp in the xonar although it has some mixed up above the middle-high.
  Some of the opamp cannot pair with LM4562, it will filter out the bass. I'm not sure whether because of its own LM4562 low bass characteristic or different soundstage between I/V and buffer opamp.


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## AhhHoNG

Well i believe this opamp really is a opinion thing. I dont find the 720HA to be lacking in the vocal at all.


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## cent

with headphone? I tried with my cheap philips SHP2500 and the laid back not so serious.
  720HA and NA have obvious laid back with my modified altec lansing mx5021, klipsch pro-media gmx a 2.1, logitech z5500 and sony hometheater. hopefully mine isnt degraded batch.


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## ROBSCIX

Well it also depends on other gear in your system and yes opamps and very subjective.


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## leeperry

cent said:


> LM4562 has bright warmer sound, harsh in the high and lack of bass.


 
   
  Most likely because it's oscillating like hell, I've heard LM4562MA in the new Firestone Spitfire...I still don't like it, but it's very bassy and not harsh at all. Quite honestly, I'd stay far away from the 4562/49720 as I/V on the STX.


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## cent

what would u prefer for the I/V?


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## gurubhai

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
   
  Anyone here tried these ?


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## ROBSCIX

Try them out and let us know.


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## dex85

i'm using 720HA in the buffer and i'm too experiencing somewhat laid-back vocals with headphones. i actually prefer it that way, i don't like vocals to stick out and mask the nearby freq. spectrum (it depends on recordings too, some recordings have vocals accentuated to the point where they sound raspy and unnatural). 
   
  720HA has a balanced midrange presentation imo, at least through my amp and headphones.i noticed a small and narrow dip at about 500Hz with headphones and pretty much no dips with my speakers. but again, my speakers are far from neutral. it depends on so many factors that it is very hard to objectively describe a sound character of an op-amp. such description is often valid only for people with same or very similar gears.


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## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





cent said:


> with headphone? I tried with my cheap philips SHP2500 and the laid back not so serious.
> 720HA and NA have obvious laid back with my modified altec lansing mx5021, klipsch pro-media gmx a 2.1, logitech z5500 and sony hometheater. hopefully mine isnt degraded batch.


 

 I am using my MTPC to get the impression. But also pairing it with MX5021 too! But i have to say mx5021 is not a very good speaker to begin with, it has laid back vocal by the speaker itself. I need to up the treble to 4.5 lights to sound normal. One thing for sure is, Essence ST > cowon i9 + Fiio E5


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## tarik2cyprian

Where can I purchase Dual LME49710HA module?
   
  I would like to try this as my buffer on ST


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## alien3456

I just installed my Essence STX last night. After playing with the drivers for a bit, something awesome happened. I was playing music and turned on the Dolby Headphone setting, and suddenly it felt like I wasn't wearing headphones anymore and the music was coming from the whole room. I had to take my headphones off to make sure I wasn't crazy! Just an awesome, massive soundstage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Amazing quality, haven't found a single complaint about this card yet.


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## tarik2cyprian

Glad to hear that alien3456
   
  Can't what to get my setup going
   
  Which type of headphones are you using in the dolby Headphone setting?


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## alien3456

Sony MDR-V6 w/ Beyerdynamic velour earpads.
   
  I've tested it with others, but my trusty, comfy MDR-V6 headphones are what I'm using 99.9% of the time. I'm no audiophile, but it doesn't take seasoned ears to hear the difference between this and my other audio sources.
   
  Something fun to try with the Dolby stereo effect: There's a rotate button in the settings where you can position the virtual speakers. It will slowly rotate the channels so that you can hear your music/sound spinning around you, and hear how effective the stereo surround effect really is.


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## fallingreason

So I just received my STX from Amazon this week, and after previously owning the Headroom Micro AMP/DAC for my PC setup, I can't believe what a steal this card is!  Best money I've ever spent.
   
  I would say it sounds 80% as good as the Micro stack, but is much more convenient than having an external source/amp.  AND, after settling in with the STX, I am 100% as happy listening through my D2000's.
   
  $185 may be a lot for a sound card, but I'm still convinced this was a bargain


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## badsykes

Hello guys
  I am pretty begginer in this Audiophile field..As i am not gaming at hardcore level i decide to buy a ST instead of other gaming cards.So i decide to go with music/sound quality instead of gaming features...
  My headphones are Audio Technica ATH M50.I listen mostly Instrumental music with orchestra.The default combination..ST stock and M50 result in not so deep bass and a little harsh highs imo..I want some OPAMP sugestions..
   
  Thank you


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## stv014

The best way to improve the sound is to try different headphones.


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## David Zember

Upgrading your DAC is the second best way.


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## David Zember

Looks great, can't wait to see how it sounds.


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## airo

Has anyone used the essence stx alone with the beyer t1? Could it be driven to a comfortable listening level?
I'm probably going to make my first large investment into hifi audio soon but I'd have to wait a couple of months to get myself an actual decent amp.


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## magnavox

alydon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I thinking of upgrading my op amps...but i use rca since i have a seperate headphone amp. All id have to do is just change the buffer one right? And the 6172 is your top choice? Thanks!


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## wasabi8tr

Hi,
 anybody know of any difference between the authentic MUSES1/MUSES2 ones and the fake ones?
 Do they sound soundwise the same as the originals I mean not build quality wise ..
  
 Are the fake ones even of NJR MUSES identical type or are they relabeled and disguised as other OPAMPS inside like some LME,NJM;HA Opamps instead?
  
 What are the risks using fake Opamps? Can they damage the equipment?
  
 I ordered some MUSES02 MUSES01 a week ago but only just noticed that they are retailing at higher prices on other sites.
 I think they might be fake ones bc of the price.
  
 I ordered them for the  ASUS Xonar Essence ST soundcard are there any OPAMP recommendations for this card?
 And what to use as buffers? Some recommend the MUSES with the HA-5002 some say the OPA1611+LME49600 is the better combo.
  
 Where should I insert the MUSES2 on the soundcard? Switch the LM4562NA with the MUSES?
  
 http://i.imgur.com/ksNCykp.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/HlAcmJy.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/lFq7q3N.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/14qHmvM.jpg


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## wasabi8tr

doublepost


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## EdibleStereos

So I just bought the STX to replace a modded X-fi Xtrememusic. It had a full recap, high precision clock and replaced the opamps with ad8620's.

 I'm a fan of the AD86x0 opamps and use them in my amp as well. Has anyone tried them in this card with good results?

 They should be a straight drop in part correct? No incompatibilities I should be concerned with?

 EDIT: What about the 8066? anybody tried that either?


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