# RSA MUSTANG P-51 . little amp BIG sound . image 1, 28, 30, 55, 59, 61  Reviews, 30, 34 . Post images .  Monitors pg 1



## jamato8

Well I have seen comments on this amp but it is not concentrated anywhere, yet. It appears from what I have read that it may rattle the concept of a portable, let alone a tiny portable with regards to sound quality. It does present a very intriguing image, both visually and quantitatively with its minimum pocket filling size. 

 I look forward to more impressions.

 10 22 08

 Well I had to get more information. I envy those who got to see and listen to the new amp at the recent Los Angeles show. 

 The gain settings are, 2, 6 and 11, with a switch on board accessed from top, lithium ion, 60 hours of playback, 250mA output for each channel. The size is 1/2 inch shorter than the TH. There are two 50uf caps one for the + and -, which means your real reserve is in the battery. 200 units for Christmas with a special price below the $375 that it will sell for. 












 Most all of the colors you have seen on Ray's site should be available. This is fun stuff!

 The P-51 is the same thickness as the Predator, about 3mm narrower and 15mm shorter. 

 The P-51 is about 18mm thick, 58mm long and 45mm wide. The length excludes the volume control that is 8mm in length and 8mm in width.
 _________________________________________________

*Headphones considered by HeadFi members to have a good synergy with the Mustang P-51:* started Dec. 12 with the recommendation of Germania

 Audio Technica ESW9 with or without mods
 Sony CD1000 w/ mods
 FreqShow
 UE Customs
 Westone 3's
 ESW10's
 Ultrasone Ed. 9
 Westone 3
 HD 650, 600

 "All the portables including Mustang & SR-71A were tested using UE10, UE11, ES2 by Westone & Weston3, the prototype. I did also listen to them via SE530.
 Ray Samuels."

 ______________________________________________






*P-51 with iRiver H140 and my hyper pure silver mini to mini IC*






*Different IC's I have made for portable use. Switchcraft minis and my own converted minis with hyper pure dead soft silver and teflon tubing braided and twisted methods used in construction*


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## NeObliviscaris

What amp is this?


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## jordanross

It is Ray Samuels newest addition to his portable line-up...
 It was shown for the first time at the So Cal LAX Hilton meet this past weekend.
 I posted my impressions in the meet impression thread.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FeedMeTrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What amp is this?_

 

It is a new portable that is the smallest that RSA has put to production. From what I have read will be a Christmas release but was heard at a recent meet. It is about the size of a matchbox or a little larger.


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## NeObliviscaris

Intriguing, anyone got any goss, spyshots etc?


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## jordanross

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FeedMeTrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Intriguing, anyone got any goss, spyshots etc?_

 

FeedMeTrance, 

 Here you go, told you to go to the LAX meet impression thread...


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## Deadneddz

.


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## krmathis

Ray sure have a nice line of portable amplifiers.
 With this new addition to the family its more or less complete, it seems...


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## -=Germania=-

Actually Jordan, 

 It first showed up in August at the Chicago Meet. 
 We were told to keep quiet at the time and have done so. 

 It is a VERY nice sounding amp - portable or not.
 Yes, it is very tiny. Noticeably smaller than a Pico.


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## jordanross

Germania,

 What! Ray lied to us! I feel so betrayed... He told us we were the first... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You guys have some amazing self control, we could hardly keep the cat in the bag, pics posted by dinner time


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## PuffyElvis

At the rate that Ray is going it wont' be long before his amps are smaller then your headphone plugs!


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## ZephyrSapphire

Hmm. From the picture it's the same thickness as the Tomahawk. Guess that's out of a lot of people's list, regardless of how small or good it is.


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## J.D.N

I guess it depends what batteries it uses etc. 

 Next step, custom mini high-end caps to fit tiny enclosures and custom rechargeable batteries for equal tiny-ness.


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## nc8000

Smaller than Pico sounds unreal and it sure looks thicker. Is it a gain swith on the top of it ?


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## monolith

Thick = not practical for portable use.

 Back to waiting for the T3, I guess.


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## fhuang

how is it really sound comparing to the tomahawk?


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## ethanlowe

Did Ray mention what the price will be? Is he taking pre order?


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## wuwhere

I wonder how much capacitance it has? I believe the hawk has a large 15K microfarad. Its thick because of that cap.


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## frozenice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. From the picture it's the same thickness as the Tomahawk. Guess that's out of a lot of people's list, regardless of how small or good it is._

 

I was hoping for an amp that was longer and thinner, more in the shape of the new Nano. I guess with the big caps that Ray uses it can't be done. Oh well, maybe next year.


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## jamato8

Caps, what caps?


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## Orcin

I find it amusing that we are now talking of a Tomahawk as being "too big".


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## B[van]

Whoa this is definitely worth a look! Thinking between a Voyager, Hornet or this Mustang xD


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Caps, what caps?_

 

Capacitors?


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## -=Germania=-

We got to see/listen to a prototype which was in the housing, but the aluminum was not anodized. 

 You guys probably got to see/listen to what the final product will be.


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## jamato8

Well I had to get more information. I envy those who got to see and listen to the new amp. 

 The gain settings are, 2, 6 and 11, with a switch on board accessed from top, lithium ion, 60 hours of playback, 250mA output for each channel. The size is 1/2 inch shorter than the TH. There are two 50uf caps one for the + and -, which means your real reserve is in the battery. 200 units for Christmas with a special price below the $375 that it will sell for. 

 Most all of the colors you have seen on Ray's site. This is fun stuff!


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## Little Bob

Q for anyone who heard it at the meeting - how does the sound compare to the SR-71A?


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## -=Germania=-

jamato, 

 You made my day!


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## frozenice

I just don't see this as being any more portable than the Tomahawk I own and I don't have any headphones that require a gain of 11. Unless the sound quality is out of the park better than the Tomahawk I don't see any reason for me to change.


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## aluren

what is the purpose of this amp that i can't get from an SR-71, Predator, or Tomahawk? is it a Hornet replacement? i just wanted to see what's new with the Mustang...


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## -=Germania=-

Aluren, 

 Lets put it this way.... I just placed an order.


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## J.D.N

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aluren, 

 Lets put it this way.... I just placed an order._

 


 I think a little further explanation might be needed...


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I had to get more information. I envy those who got to see and listen to the new amp. 

 The gain settings are, 2, 6 and 11, with a switch on board accessed from top, lithium ion, 60 hours of playback, 250mA output for each channel. The size is 1/2 inch shorter than the TH. There are two 50uf caps one for the + and -, which means your real reserve is in the battery. 200 units for Christmas with a special price below the $375 that it will sell for. 

 Most all of the colors you have seen on Ray's site. This is fun stuff!_

 

Hawk is cheaper?


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## -=Germania=-

I really liked this amp and from first listen told Ray that I wanted to be one of the first people on the list for this thing. 

 I preferred it over iQube and many other amps for its musicality. It doesn't seem as warm as the other RSA stuff and doesn't hide imperfections in the music, which I prefer. (Please do keep in mind that I heard a prototype). I heard it with IEM's and full sized headphones, both sounded very nice and the size was VERY attractive to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pico - just liked this a bit more. YMMV


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frozenice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just don't see this as being any more portable than the Tomahawk I own and I don't have any headphones that require a gain of 11. Unless the sound quality is out of the park better than the Tomahawk I don't see any reason for me to change._

 


 Well gotta agree with your first line there. Seriously, 0.5" shorter than the Tomahawk doesn't make it more portable if it's still the same thickness.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well gotta agree with your first line there. Seriously, 0.5" shorter than the Tomahawk doesn't make it more portable if it's still the same thickness._

 

When you find a high quality volume control that is flat & thin, as much as possible matched in starting point, value acuracy & tracking, yet slim & trim as you wish then please e-mail me. The only slim ones are the once with turn wheel & they are craps, I have ordered every possible one in the market & they turned to be nothing short of dissapointment. All of them, one channel starts way before the other & the sound stage allways is way off from the center. Please don't tell me who uses what as I do not want to get into that.
 Ray smauels


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## ZephyrSapphire

I do not know how good Alps potentiometers are but if they are good, how about the RK097/098. Or even the RK09K/D? All these potentiometers are less than 10mm when put horizontally. I don't see how much of an affect wires would do to connect the board to the "floating" legs of these potentiometers if they were to be attached horizontally.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know how good Alps potentiometers are but if they are good, how about the RK097/098. Or even the RK09K/D? All these potentiometers are less than 10mm when put horizontally. I don't see how much of an affect wires would do to connect the board to the "floating" legs of these potentiometers if they were to be attached horizontally._

 

What do you think I use?
 In fact the top of the alps volume control touches the inner top of the chassis.
 Ray smauels.


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## BRBJackson

For those interested in a size comparison, here a a couple of pics showing the SR71A, Predator, Tomahawk, and the Mustang. I told Ray that his amps were getting so small, we were going to need locator chips in order not to lose them


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## ZephyrSapphire

I don't know what you use unless someone told me. Lol. But yeah, I don't see why the potentiometers can't be put horizontally and wired as such.


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## -=Germania=-

Pssh... I have had a few Alps pots that had the same tracking problems, not to mention the occasional noisy one.... 

 If you can find it, drop in a Noble Pot as a replacement for an ALPs blue velvet.


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## qusp

hmmm interesting I am starting to lean toward this as a second portable amp; I dont mind the size so its this or the SR71A I use a pelican case anyway not my pocket; ive got my pico for that if needed


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## jamato8

I think once this amp gets out into some hands people will realize how small it is. I mean I haven't seen it or touched it but trying to imagine it, well all I can do is wait. I look forward to future meet impressions.


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## hockeyb213

I mean this is really cool and all but I think my tomahawk is small enough already so whenever I am done with that I will upgrade but I am in absolutely no rush since I doubt it will have a better sq


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## jamato8

Sure there is no reason to just run out and buy something else. I agree with this. I do enjoy the hobby and the fun it brings to listening to music. Look how many of us drop notes in these threads and correspond in that way on our thoughts and perceptions. Great stuff. :^)


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## nickyboyo

The whole beauty of the Tomahawk is it's portability- going away on a 2 month road trip?? Throw in 2 new AAA's and you have no amp/power worries. I am sure this new amp will have a very nice RSA sound, but personally i avoid built in rechargeables, purely because of the fact that if i'm camping on a beach miles away from civilization, as long as i have a bag of batteries, my means of listening to music is always available.


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## jamato8

Sure or use a Tekkeon like I do and you can charge anything from this portable battery from 5 volts to 19.


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The whole beauty of the Tomahawk is it's portability- going away on a 2 month road trip?? Throw in 2 new AAA's and you have no amp/power worries. I am sure this new amp will have a very nice RSA sound, but personally i avoid built in rechargeables, purely because of the fact that if i'm camping on a beach miles away from civilization, as long as i have a bag of batteries, my means of listening to music is always available._

 

X2, but unfortunately my source's battery only last about 25hrs.


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## LFF

I thought the P-51 sounded marvelous. I need to start saving my pennies to get one of these. It is the smallest amp I have seen and the sound is huge.


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## Lil' Knight

I'm really really happy that I got rid of the portable world long ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The speed of new portable stuffs coming out is faster and faster.


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## wuwhere

Can they be ordered now? When will the delivery date be?


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## jamato8

From what I know it is a Christmas deliver and they can be reserved. I would contact Ray to be sure.


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## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The whole beauty of the Tomahawk is it's portability- going away on a 2 month road trip?? Throw in 2 new AAA's and you have no amp/power worries. I am sure this new amp will have a very nice RSA sound, but personally i avoid built in rechargeables, purely because of the fact that if i'm camping on a beach miles away from civilization, as long as i have a bag of batteries, my means of listening to music is always available._

 

x2

 built-in rechargeable sometime is nice but i do prefer batteries


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I know it is a Christmas deliver and they can be reserved. I would contact Ray to be sure._

 

Will do. With smaller caps, burn-in time should be much shorter.


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## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do. With smaller caps, burn-in time should be much shorter._

 

i thought the tomahawks need 600 hours of burn-in isn't it?


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought the tomahawks need 600 hours of burn-in isn't it?_

 

I'm referring to the P-51 burn-in time.


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## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm referring to the P-51 burn-in time._

 

what i meant was if a small amp/cap like the tomahawk. this p51 won't get any less time of burn-in. if you believe in burn-in.


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## jamato8

It would seem that much less time will be needed for the cap to form. I find that circuits in general need about 100 hours of current flowing through them. The 100 hours has always been the statement by Cary Audio and a number of other companies. With larger caps and tiny amounts of current for the cap the forming period, as has been discussed, is much longer. The manufacture of V-caps has stated that over 1000 hours often is required for their teflon cap to fully change the dielectric and form the cap.


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## krmathis

Great to see some specifications posted.
 /me play Ray have just as great success with this one as with his other portable amplifiers.


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## williamchc

Is it certain that the P-51 will put the gain setting on top of the amp?

 I personally much like the gain setting postition of SR71A and predator.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *williamchc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it certain that the P-51 will put the gain setting on top of the amp?

 I personally much like the gain setting postition of SR71A and predator._

 


 Yes the gain switch is on top but recessed so you use a ballpoint pen or some small like that to change the gain setting. I rarely change a gain setting once I find what I want to use so have it easy to get to and recessed would seem to satisfy most everyone. With the 51 being so small I don't think there was room for the switch in front but again I don't think it should be an issue from what I can see.


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## Luckyleo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought the tomahawks need 600 hours of burn-in isn't it?_

 

About 100 hours


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## Ricey20

If this had a DAC I'd be all over it. Have wanted to try the RSA sound for awhile but I need a DAC to use with my MBP. I have the pico so don't want to buy the Predator since its too expensive for just trying.


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luckyleo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 100 hours_

 

You should listen to it at 800 hours. Yes 800.


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## thread

Pictures are now on Ray's site.


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## jamato8

May as well post it.


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## wuwhere

Just wondering...no picture of the 'tang next to a hawk.


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## Lil' Knight




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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Now that is tiny. He should called it Sidewinder,


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## BIG POPPA

I guess I will have to surrender my Red Tomahawk to my Uncle Bob for this. He has been at me since day one to upgrade for the Tomahawk. I really like my Tomahawk. This looks like a worthy upgrade.


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## i_don't_know

To anyone that got the chance to audition this thing, could you compare it to the Predator for me in terms of SQ/sound signature (not sure if that's the right word but you get what I'm saying)? I don't need a DAC, so only A/B sound-related things, please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This amp looks amazing, but I was already thinking of saving up for the Predator over the summer, so if the Predator still sounds significantly better, I might still be getting it. If the Mustang sounds equal or better in every aspect, then this is a no-brainer.


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## krmathis

Ray have his own thread about the Emmeline P-51 Mustang as well.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f38/em...ustang-375425/


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## Little Bob

Have we got a definite price for the P51?


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## tnmike1

I might bite on this. Wonder if it's going to be available in multipe colors like the Tomahawk?? Two toned casing might be cool


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## -=Germania=-

I am pretty sure that there will be the same color options as in all of the RSA portable amps. 

 Right now I am thinking purple and silver....


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## tonyep

I might get this too! I've always like Ray's silver colour for portable amp


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## gideonMorrison

Price wanted!


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## nocturnalsheet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gideonMorrison* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Price wanted! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2


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## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nocturnalsheet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

x3


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## fhuang

the price is out at 375 dollars with a 50 dollars offhttp://www.head-fi.org/forums/4926809-post29.html
 it's at the hornet price range. wonder how it sound comparing to the hornet.


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## nocturnalsheet

is the P-51 able to drive the AKG K701?


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## hockeyb213

probably but not up to their potential but they do show pictures of it with the 701 on rsa's site


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## Lil' Knight

Look like just for the comparison in size between the 701 and P51...


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## hockeyb213

yeah you are right but for akg's I have to recommend a sr-71a that powers akg's absolutely wonderfully


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## nocturnalsheet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah you are right but for akg's I have to recommend a sr-71a that powers akg's absolutely wonderfully_

 

i was hoping it can drive the K701


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## mrarroyo

Guys/gals, why don't we wait till we can actually listen to the amp before we start guessing on what it can or can not do.


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## krmathis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gideonMorrison* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Price wanted! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Look, look! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every year around this time we do offer a Holidays special for all head-fi members & friend. This year is no exception. The regular price for the P-51 is $375.00.
*The Holiday special for 200 Mustangs will be $325.00 only.*_


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nocturnalsheet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the P-51 able to drive the AKG K701?_

 

Yes it can drive the 701 to a great listening levels & can add the warmth that the 701 needs.
 Ray Samuels


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## hockeyb213

hey Ray just sent you a email about the blackbird I just ordered if you could get back to me that would be awesome! And cool beans since I have a k702 nice to know such a small amp could drive them...


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## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys/gals, why don't we wait till we can actually listen to the amp before we start guessing on what it can or can not do._

 

i remember some guys heard about this amp at some meets before.


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## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i remember some guys heard about this amp at some meets before._

 

A few cats listened to the prototype. Many if not most have already posted their impressions, until the production P51 gets into the hands of its future customers not much to say.


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## jamato8

Cats, Cats! what is it with these cats! I mean they could listen but how do they convey what they have heard? Do they purr, flick their tail in satisfaction, or can you tell when they grin and vanish?


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## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I had to get more information. I envy those who got to see and listen to the new amp. 

 The gain settings are, 2, 6 and 11, with a switch on board accessed from top, lithium ion, 60 hours of playback, 250mA output for each channel. The size is 1/2 inch shorter than the TH. There are two 50uf caps one for the + and -, which means your real reserve is in the battery. 200 units for Christmas with a special price below the $375 that it will sell for. 

 Most all of the colors you have seen on Ray's site. This is fun stuff!_

 

Jamato,

 Can you comment (for those of us, like me, who are analog circuit challenged) on the design tradeoffs / sonic differences you'd expect with two small 50-microfarad caps on the + and - side, with the battery as your real reserve? 

 Seems to be a departure from the common "large cap in the signal train" architecture, that requires lots of burn-in to form, 
 and is common among Ray's (and others') portables? 

 Thanks in advance, for any light you can shed on the subject.


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## mrarroyo

^ Large caps is a relative terms. Both the SR71 and SR71A use smaller caps than what the Hornet or Tomahawk use. Nonetheless they are considered by some to be large (5,000 uF per side if memory serves me right).


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## SierraHotel01

mrarroyo,

 OK, understand Tomahawk 15,000uF
 and SR71 5000uF (considered large by some).
 But the Mustang was designed with two 50uF caps.
 Seems like quite a departure - any idea what the benefit / tradeoffs might be?


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## jamato8

A battery is a capacitor or sorts. It holds a charge. If it is a low resistance source there is no reason that small caps wouldn't work just fine. There is no real tradeoff if everything is implemented right.


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## SierraHotel01

Thanks for the response Jamato8.
 Just pre-ordered a Mustang from Ray.
 Hope it's gonna outshine my Tomahawk, driving SR325i's, HD650's, SE530's.
 Can't wait to compare the two.


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## HK_sends

Are they available for pre-order now? I put my name on the list a while back...

 -HK sends


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## -=Germania=-

You guys have no idea how excited I am to get this...just 2-3 weeks away!!!!!!!!!


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys have no idea how excited I am to get this...just 2-3 weeks away!!!!!!!!!




_

 

Your excitement does not excite us...... Jk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Actually, I'm looking forward to this amp due to its Christmas price. But the biggest reason I'm looking forward to this amp is if it can power the R10's well, it'll be interesting to see what it can do because none of Ray's portable amps (Hornet, Predator & Tomahawk) have yet to impress me as well as some other Head-fiers


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## -=Germania=-

ZephyerSapphire, 

 I agree with you on that one. The predator was nice, but too dark IMO and I felt was distinctly colored. That is what motivated me to get the Pico because I felt it had an overall faster sound which was much closer to neutral (though not neutral - little warm). The P-51 I preferred to the Pico so much that I pre-ordered it. It is actually a bit smaller and does power large headphones, something that the Pico did not do well in my mind when you go much past Grado's. If you are only going to use the amp for portable headphones, it might come all down to preference. As a mids junkie, I went with the P-51.


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ZephyerSapphire, 

 I agree with you on that one. The predator was nice, but too dark IMO and I felt was distinctly colored. That is what motivated me to get the Pico because I felt it had an overall faster sound which was much closer to neutral (though not neutral - little warm). The P-51 I preferred to the Pico so much that I pre-ordered it. It is actually a bit smaller and does power large headphones, something that the Pico did not do well in my mind when you go much past Grado's. If you are only going to use the amp for portable headphones, it might come all down to preference. As a mids junkie, I went with the P-51._

 

I really like the Pico's mids, smooth and liquid. How does the P-51's mids compare with the Pico's?

 Thanks.


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## jamato8

It would seem the last line in the quote would answer your question.


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would seem the last line in the quote would answer your question._

 

My question is, is it more liquid and smoother? Or the same? Saying I like it or prefers it does not answer this this query.
 Thanks.


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## 40760

"Midrange: A++: OK, here it comes – the best mids of any portable headphone amp EVER. Yes, this includes the iQube, 2Move, and any of Ray’s other amps. The mids on the Mustang have to be heard to be believed. I was SHOCKED. So pretty, so lush and liquid, and yet so neutral and transparent. Joanna Newsome’s harp and voice on “Cosmia” were so good I truly got shivers and goosebumps. The Mustang’s mids are nothing short of THRILLING."

 -By Skylab @ Head-fi.org.

 Anyway there is a small write-up on the RSA's site. Hope that helps.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My question is, is it more liquid and smoother? Or the same? Saying I like it or prefers it does not answer this this query.
 Thanks._

 

I haven't heard it but I should be receiving a loaner soon and give you my opinion but it appears the mid range has been assessed to great acclaim. :^)


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## 40760

And I had to sign up for one since I returned my iBasso D3, while awaiting for my ath-esw10jpn to arrive... >


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## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ZephyerSapphire, 

 I agree with you on that one. The predator was nice, but too dark IMO and I felt was distinctly colored. That is what motivated me to get the Pico because I felt it had an overall faster sound which was much closer to neutral (though not neutral - little warm). The P-51 I preferred to the Pico so much that I pre-ordered it. It is actually a bit smaller and does power large headphones, something that the Pico did not do well in my mind when you go much past Grado's. If you are only going to use the amp for portable headphones, it might come all down to preference. As a mids junkie, I went with the P-51._

 

Well I do hope you're right about the mids as I enjoy mids and highs. Most of Ray's amps I've tried have failed to impress me in these sections.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Midrange: A++: OK, here it comes – the best mids of any portable headphone amp EVER. Yes, this includes the iQube, 2Move, and any of Ray’s other amps. The mids on the Mustang have to be heard to be believed. I was SHOCKED. So pretty, so lush and liquid, and yet so neutral and transparent. Joanna Newsome’s harp and voice on “Cosmia” were so good I truly got shivers and goosebumps. The Mustang’s mids are nothing short of THRILLING."

 -By Skylab @ Head-fi.org.

 Anyway there is a small write-up on the RSA's site. Hope that helps._

 

I wouldn't believe that if I were you, or even anyone else.


----------



## 40760

I believed in Germania actually.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Midrange: A++: OK, here it comes – the best mids of any portable headphone amp EVER. Yes, this includes the iQube, 2Move, and any of Ray’s other amps. The mids on the Mustang have to be heard to be believed. I was SHOCKED. So pretty, so lush and liquid, and yet so neutral and transparent. Joanna Newsome’s harp and voice on “Cosmia” were so good I truly got shivers and goosebumps. The Mustang’s mids are nothing short of THRILLING."

 -By Skylab @ Head-fi.org.

 Anyway there is a small write-up on the RSA's site. Hope that helps.
 I wouldn't believe that if I were you, or even anyone else.


 I wouldn't believe that if I were you, or even anyone else._

 

Why do you say that? Is his opinion invalid for some reason?


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why do you say that? Is his opinion invalid for some reason?_

 

No.. Because it's his 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As much as I enjoy reading reviews, I prefer listening to it for myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And also because of some other reasons which I do not wish to discuss in this thread.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No.. Because it's his 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As much as I enjoy reading reviews, I prefer listening to it for myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And also because of some other reasons which I do not wish to discuss in this thread._

 

Ok, but stating you would not believe him to me equates to "he isn't giving an honest opinion". I can believe that someone "hears" something and they believe it but that doesn't mean I agree with them but that is different from not believing they hear what they hear.

 And I agree, I prefer to hear for myself. We all look for just a little something different though the difference may be small enough that a common agreement can be reached. Yes, let your own ears be the judge.


----------



## 40760

And in order for me to hear it for myself, I had to sign up for one.


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And in order for me to hear it for myself, I had to sign up for one._

 

True. Oh well. I canceled my pre-order. I don't see why I should buy it if I can save up for a Lisa III. Enjoy your amps when they arrive.


----------



## nano

When are the first ones send out? Has anyone heard the Mustang yet?


----------



## Greeni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When are the first ones send out? Has anyone heard the Mustang yet?_

 

Skylab has added his review on Mustang in this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/r.../index215.html

 He ranked the Mustang slightly above the original SR71. Would like to see a comparison with the revised SR71A, if still available.


----------



## mrarroyo

I was going to order the P51 and emailed Ray. I asked him if it would be worth it for me to get it since I have both the SR71 and the SR71A. He responded indicating that the SR71A and the P51 sound very good to him.

 I am still trying to decide if I should order it or not. I really like Ray's designs, attention to detail, build quality, customer service, etc. This is a hard decission!


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to order the P51 and emailed Ray. I asked him if it would be worth it for me to get it since I have both the SR71 and the SR71A. He responded indicating that the SR71A and the P51 sound very good to him.

 I am still trying to decide if I should order it or not. I really like Ray's designs, attention to detail, build quality, customer service, etc. This is a hard decission!_

 

i'm in the same situation, almost except i don't have the original sr71 and i want one that's good with iems. i don't really like sr71a with iems except er4s(super fi eb sound pretty good too but that's about it). i meant i like the predator more. even the hornet. i asked Ray and he replied me back that the p51 is great with iems. i don't know, i'm not so sure. let us know please.

 HeadphoneAddict, are you there? i think you're the only one that review amps with iems. you thinking about getting one for a review?


----------



## -=Germania=-

P-51 is very nice with IEM's - tried with FreQShow just to prove.


----------



## digihead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to order the P51 and emailed Ray. I asked him if it would be worth it for me to get it since I have both the SR71 and the SR71A. He responded indicating that the SR71A and the P51 sound very good to him.

 I am still trying to decide if I should order it or not. I really like Ray's designs, attention to detail, build quality, customer service, etc. This is a hard decission!_

 

Give in to the dark side...I broke like a twig after reading Skylab's comments. I also own the SR-71A and find it to be an incredible amp. Guess the curiosity of hearing the Mustang is just too much for me to bear...


----------



## Randolph Duke

I don't understand the differences in these amps.
 I would assume the predator would be the best bet because it has a USB output that can be used with ipod or laptop. Isn't that a higher quality output than the line out?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Randolph Duke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand the differences in these amps.
 I would assume the predator would be the best bet because it has a USB output that can be used with ipod or laptop. Isn't that a higher quality output than the line out?_

 

It depends upon your line out. A line out can be from an MP3 player or a dac. It depends upon how high the quality of signal from the line out of whatever you are using as a source. USB is as good as the dac. The Predator does a fine job and is very enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still trying to decide if I should order it or not. I really like Ray's designs, attention to detail, build quality, customer service, etc. This is a hard decission!_

 

I always thought that the SR71 (and it's replacement SR71A) were Ray's "Statement Products" for the portable world. I can't help but wonder how the Mustang could be better with it's diminuitive size. I don't doubt it's the usual great product many expect from Ray..but if there was some sound quality gift to the audiophile world hidden inside, why wouldn't that technology be implemented on the SR71A? 

 My current assumption is that the P51 would be a small step down in absolute sound quality from the SR71A due to the sacrifices made to facilitate it's size. However, it's possible someone may prefer its sound signature over the SR71A.


----------



## jamato8

I think size is a phycological barrier. Implementation and changes in opamps, materials used and experience, to me, are the overriding factors. I could not assume based on size, cost or other factors that something would be a step up or down until heard. Experience in this arena has taught me to listen, though I do make assumptions myself only to remind myself that I may be assuming too much.

 I hope to hear one soon and will add my opinion.


----------



## -=Germania=-

The SR-71/a seem to be home amps made portable and would likely do very well with high impedance headphones which might be a problem for other amps. I bet that this is the area where the SR-71/a bests the P-51. The P-51 can still power full sized, but I doubt that it could replace a home amp in that sense like many report with there SR-71's.


----------



## Levy

Can this P-51 already be ordered?


----------



## Lil' Knight

pre-ordered only now


----------



## Levy

Hi Lil' Knight,
 Thank you for the Answer.

 Levy


----------



## jamato8

If you preorder you can save some money as they will be on a preorder sale.


----------



## shoooze

The mustang is very tempting, loving the battery life on that. I have the hornet (great amp), but the biggest problem is it last only around 12 hours or so with rechargeable's.


----------



## dadozen

This little amp seems to be somehow revolutionary. I wonder how it would compare to the SR-71A, since I'm waiting for one to get home.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shoooze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mustang is very tempting, loving the battery life on that. I have the hornet (great amp), but the biggest problem is it last only around 12 hours or so with rechargeable's._

 

Shooze: what battery are you using?? I'm getting way more hours on my Powerex rechargeable than that. I want to say almost double that, but I don't "log" my hours only becxause when it depletes, I change batteries or charge the one that's in there


----------



## hockeyb213

12 sounds awefull short even on my monster sr-71a I get 22 -24 hours with small tysonics


----------



## ericwatson

I also own RSA HORNET M and with rechargeable bat only average around 12 hours with standard duracell 30 something hours so he is right


----------



## Lil' Knight

I wonder which one is better? The new Xin Reference or the P51? They now have equal price which makes me torn apart.


----------



## glc

I wonder the same thing, but with a RSA if things need repair, it is done relatively quick FWIR, with the Xin, you may have to wait a while if history is any indicator. Ny the way, you can always look here;

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/r...mpared-214588/


----------



## Usagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder which one is better? The new Xin Reference or the P51? They now have equal price which makes me torn apart._

 

Stay with proven reputable dealers. It'll mean less headaches and more time with your purchased gear. Besides, dealers displaying consistency and dependability should be rewarded for their efforts.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yeah, I'm personally moving forward to the P51 though.


----------



## hockeyb213

Go with the 51 not only will it be a more clean mainstreamed product but service and quickness of RSA is truly remarkable.


----------



## robojack

Skylab has given this amp an overwhelmingly positive review, and according to him, this is even better than the Predator. Can anyone else back this up - is this amp on par with the Predator's amp?


----------



## glc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robojack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab has given this amp an overwhelmingly positive review, and according to him, this is even better than the Predator. Can anyone else back this up - is this amp on par with the Predator's amp?_

 

Hard to do before it's officially released unless you're lucky enough to have one of the review units.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Robojack, 

 IMO - it is better than the predator. I thought that the predator was too dark and warm, the P51 is a much more neutral and balanced amp. 

 Lil Knight, 

 I would stay with proven retailers when dealing with something that could get broken. It is one of the major reasons why I never really bothered looking into the singlepower amps (other than they just haven't really done it for me). 

 At any rate, if anyone finds themselves at Northwestern U. feel free to PM me and you are more than welcome to listen to whatever you like. 

 Can't wait to get mine!


----------



## jamato8

If you leave the Predator on all the time I think you will notice a change in sound. For me, the sound more open and transparent if the unit is left plugged in until use. This goes for most solid state, IMHO. ONSH.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Usagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stay with proven reputable dealers..._

 

While it is true that Xin has been "out of it" for the last 18 months your statement makes him a non-reputable dealer. Something that IMO he is not.

 His amps following the 18 month hiatus are shipping and they are sounding pretty darn good.

 As far as Ray, well what can I say. He is superb with his customers, ships faster than fast, his amps are built like tanks, just a wonderful individual to deal with. Yes I am a fan boy of Ray's products.


----------



## nano

It was said that there where new colors avalible, any news on that befor i send my final pre-order information?


----------



## jamato8

I would imagine that if state that you would like to choose the color but are sending in the preorder, that it will be accommodated. Or just email or call Ray.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Skylab says: "The Mustang, according to Ray, can deliver more than 2 times the amount of current that a Tomahawk can. Pretty impressive."

 That would seem to imply that the P-51 will synergize even better than the Tomahawk with low impedance cans, like Grados, right?


----------



## jamato8

It would seem so.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Ann... Tiss... Uh... Pay... Shun !


----------



## Lil' Knight

I wonder if anyone has compared its size with the 3rd gen Nano? Do they match perfectly?


----------



## HK_sends

I don't know if Ray has released it yet, but I just found it listed on the purchasing page on his site for $375.00.

 -HK sends


----------



## -=Germania=-

I am getting all gold with black knob. 

 Should look wicked and be able to match quite a few things while being a bit striking.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Lil' Knight: The 3G Nano is almost the exact same size as the Tomahawk 
 (see attached jpg).

 The Mustang will be 0.5 in. shorter, so it will have to be centered, but should pair nicely.

 PS: never understood the rubber banding thing, when Velcro is readily available.

Attachment 10459


----------



## Lil' Knight

wow, i don't know that the tomahawk matches the tomahawk that much.


----------



## the_thatguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i don't know that the tomahawk matches the tomahawk that much._

 

 ^I do know that.


----------



## Lil' Knight

The Tomahawk is still quite thicker than the Nano though. Considering that the p51 is even thicker than the Toma, I wonder how they look like together


----------



## SierraHotel01

I don't think the Mustang will be thicker than the Tomahawk.

 Check Ray's site - pics of Mustang / Predator (same thickness)


----------



## SierraHotel01

Upon mature reflection, I should not have said: 
 "3G Nano is almost the exact same size as the Tomahawk"

 but rather,
 "3G Nano planform dimensions are very close to Tomahawk's".


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Tomahawk is still quite thicker than the Nano though. Considering that the p51 is even thicker than the Toma, I wonder how they look like together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry, I don't know where did you read that but the P-51 is not thicker than the Tomahawk.
 The P-51 is the smallest portable amp the RSA makes.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## SierraHotel01

Anybody got a side-by-side pic of the Mustang & Tomahawk?

 That would certainly lay these misconceptions to rest.

 (Skylab?, Ray?)


----------



## Lil' Knight

To my eyes, it's thicker.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Better eyes than mine. (optical illusion due to P51 being shorter?)

 You could always ask Ray to provide you with case dimension comparison between the two. (in his spare time, LOL)


----------



## smart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SR-71/a seem to be home amps made portable and would likely do very well with high impedance headphones which might be a problem for other amps. I bet that this is the area where the SR-71/a bests the P-51. The P-51 can still power full sized, but I doubt that it could replace a home amp in that sense like many report with there SR-71's._

 

Can't agree more!


----------



## jamato8

The P-51 is the same thickness as the Predator, about 3mm narrower and 15mm shorter. 

 The P-51 is about 18mm thick, 58mm long and 45mm wide. The length excludes the volume control that is 8mm in length and 8mm in width.


----------



## SierraHotel01

All praise Jamato.
 Finally, the definitive answer!

 ahhh..now, back to that midrange that has to be "heard to be believed"


----------



## dookiex

The Mustang looks thicker in the line-up shot because the picture was taken with a wide angle close up. Shooting wide angle close up will ALWAYS distort an image.


----------



## williamchc

Well, I am currently using the predator for my IEMs mainly(sometimes for my HD 650), and previously owned a pico. I keep the predator as it match with the Westone ES3 and HD 650 better,especially ES3

 Should I get the P51 to replace the predator?(I don't actually need the USB DAC so basically the USB DAC in the predator is not a bonus for me)
 I'm so confused.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Is P-51 going to replace Tomahawk ?


----------



## smart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *williamchc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should I get the P51 to replace the predator?(I don't actually need the USB DAC so basically the USB DAC in the predator is not a bonus for me)
 I'm so confused._

 

I saw your name in the pre-order list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I have Predator/Tomahawk/Hornet, I would have been in the same situation ... confusion. 

 I have a Blackbird, and I think it's good for home use with my HD650, and I will use a little brother Mustang on the go (with SE530) or in my office (with MS2i).


----------



## jamato8

The P-51 is so small and light you hardly notice you have it. It is very enjoyable to use.


----------



## Jalo

Can Someone post link to preorder list? Thanks very much.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can Someone post link to preorder list? Thanks very much._

 

You can actually google: Ray Samuels audio preorder P-51

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/f38/e...ustang-375425/


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 And they might be out earlier than I expected. Really soon over the week I guess...


----------



## flargosa

How does the lithium battery of the P-51 compared to two 9 volts used in the SR-71? I have not seen the battery specs.


----------



## jamato8

The P-51 uses a 3.7 Li-Poly. The 71A can use a number of different 9 volt types.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P-51 uses a 3.7 Li-Poly. The 71A can use a number of different 9 volt types._

 

Jamato: here's a quote from Ray: 

 "The rechargeable Lithium Ion battery can deliver easy 7-8 days of playback at 8 hours per day of play back from single charge."

 Did Ray mean to imply the Mustang comes with Litium Ion, not Lithium Polymer (Li-Po)?

 PS: Li-Po's are pretty cool (very high charge density), but dangerous if mistreated - they literally explode! -- use them on RC Heli's.


----------



## jamato8

I don't know. I would go with Ray's site of course. I just read so much about Li-poly and use them myself. 

 Li-poly can be dangerous, as you express.


----------



## SierraHotel01

I should have posted the entire post from Ray.
 Here it is: originally posted in Members of the Trade Forum, 30 Oct 08

 Emmeline, P-51, the Mustang.

 This little wonder is made to last the life time. It has a mil spec pc brd with some of the best SMD dale Vishay resistor. The caps are Tantalum & by passed with some of the best SMD film caps. These features have a lot to do with quality of the sound. The circuit it self is a simple design with no extra bells & whistles.
 The Mustang was designed to be the smallest portable amp we make yet it is tweaked to stand against some of the best amps out there.
 No compromise in parts quality, or workmanship. The rechargeable Lithium Ion battery can deliver easy 7-8 days of playback at 8 hours per day of play back from single charge.
 The amp can output 250ma of current, per channel, enough to drive all headphones to very acceptable level of sound.

 The Aluminum extrusion is designed from ground up & both ends are custom designed to our specs. The volume control Knob is the same like the Predator as it is custom made for our amps. 

 The P-51 has a three level gain switch imbedded internally yet accessible from the top of the extrusion, it gives the gain of 2, 6 & 11. The switch can not be triggered accidentally. The reason for the placement of the gain switch inside is the size of the amp & its minute face plate.

 No large cap has been implemented in this design, so you are looking at around 100 hours of burn-in that any electronic components need to break-in.
 The P-51 comes with a charger/adaptor, you can charge the amp while listening to it or just turn it off & the battery will be full within 2-3 hours.
 No harm will be done to the battery if the charger is left on all the time.

 Combining this little amp with any NANO Video with a good mini dock cable & lossless files make this little gem one of the greatest companion when traveling.
 Please stay away from the very heavy SOLID adaptors that convert ¼”-1/8”, as these adaptors put a lot of stress on ALL connectors of the portable amps no matter who the maker is, especially when walking or jogging. Also use the mini DOCK cables that have smaller body & flexible wires.

 Please do not purchase my amp if your source has no line out. Using the headphone jack out of your source to any amp defeats the purpose of using an external amplifier. Many posts we read where the person claims that there is no difference in sound quality between the source headphone jack & the amp that he or she purchased using the headphone jack as the input to the amp. Quality of the sound also improves when your files are not compressed, the compression induces hiss & the sound quality is no longer enjoyable.

 The P-51 is going to be offered in many colors, few colors might be for the first time. We are very pleased that this amp will be ready on time for the coming Holidays, so if you are looking forward to treating your self for one, this would be the one you should consider. 

 The P-51, Mustang, is warranted for a period of three years from the time that was purchased. The warranty is transferable to any new buyers as many times as it might be sold. The warranty will cover the parts, labor & the battery. The buyer will pay for shipping.

 Every year around this time we do offer a Holidays special for all head-fi members & friend. This year is no exception. The regular price for the P-51 is $375.00.
 The Holiday special for 200 Mustangs will be $325.00 only. Please make sure you post in this thread for the reservation if you need one. Please do not send me an e-mail or pm as I have no time to answer that. Your post will guaranty you the right to own one with out my reply. The orders will be taken until the end of NOVEMBER. Please do not send money or check either, I do not want to take your money until I have the amps in my hands. I will post about the time when you can make your payment. Your post will reserve you an amp but it will only ship when the payment has been made. After a certain period of time if payment has not been made your right for an amp, at the special Holiday price, will cease to exist. 

 Happy Holidays from Ray Samuels Audio Staff.

 -------------------------------------------------------

 Does not sound like Mustang has Li-Po's!
 Ray states Lithium Ion.

 (Man, I wonder how long you could run it, if it DID have Li-Po's?)


----------



## jamato8

Ok, well, there you go. 8^)


----------



## max111

hi, i am just wondering what happen when the lithium ion battery is dead. though some may have already sell their mustang when that happen, for those who hold on to it, can we replace the battery ourselves? for those who are not in us, it may be a bit troublesome and costly to send it to ray to do that. any comments?


----------



## SierraHotel01

Can anyone comment on the SQ implications of the Mustang having twice the current output of the Tomahawk?

 Wonder how that compares with current output of Predator, for example?

 Have heard that low impedance cans, like Grado, seem to like high current output amps.


----------



## jamato8

I have driven my phones to louder that I would, could ever listen to them to see if I could get distortion from the amp clipping but it would not. 

 The amp is extremely enjoyable and rewarding to use.

 I am finding that with jazz this amp really shines. There is a beautiful body to the sound, a fullness and texture. Cymbals, as I may have mentioned, have the right sheen and brassy sound. For me, jazz is one of the hardest forms of music for electronics to capture and the 51 does right.


----------



## Headphile808

Thanks for all the great information on this tiny little marvel.It has been very helpful making my decision which one to purchase as my first headphone amp.
 At first, I was considering a Meir 2Move or RSA Tomahawk,and I'm sure I would be happy with either, then I read about the RSA P-51 Mustang.I especially liked jamato8s comments on the synergy the P-51 has with jazz music.Skylabs review on the RSA site was the clincher.Had to Pre-Order one right there and then.Keeping my fingers crossed that I will be fortunate enough to have placed my order on time.Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## jamato8

The more I listen to the P-51, the more I can hear the quality it brings to music.


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 How does the P-51 compare to the SR71A? Is the Mustang also as capable as the SR71A when it comes to higher impedance headphones like the HD600 or 650?

 Regards.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more I listen to the P-51, the more I can hear the quality it brings to music._

 

As always great words of encouragement.Can't wait for Ray's announcement, so excited!! Hope I Pre-Ordered on time.
 Headphile808.


----------



## jamato8

I can't say the P-51 is better than the SR-71A, it is different. The SR-71A presents a slightly more distant image, the 51 a little closer but it also had a quality of intimacy that is captivating. The mids, as mentioned in the review by Skylab, are very, very good and that is where much the music is. But that doesn't mean the lows and highs are let down. They are there. I am still trying to get a handle on the 51 because of the difference it presents in the sound. There is layering, there is intimacy and yet there is space. As I stated above, the sound is captivating, it is enjoyable, it is musical, it is inviting.


----------



## wuwhere

I wonder how its mids compares with the Pico's?


----------



## xryptic

jamato,

 I currently have a iBasso D2 Boa and plan on getting a P-51 (I have already stated my pre-order intentions in the thread), I will be satisfied with this change right? At least not disappointed? My Boa will likely be used as a DAC once the tiny P-51 arrives.


----------



## Turko

jamato

 Can you compare Mustang with iBasso D3


----------



## jamato8

I am still trying to understand everything I hear. Voice on the 51 are well focussed and I notice that it is as if they come from a shaped face rather than just from a space. 

 I haven't compared it to the two above amps directly and will try to. I use the Ultrasone Ed. 9 most of the time, which for me, can dissect the sound in a good way but I also need time to really take in the subtle differences to give as honest opinion as possible.

 Oh, for those who have asked and emailed. It drives the HD650's just fine and to as loud as you would normally want, meaning that I can't listen as loud as the amp will drive them and still not distort. This is on medium gain.


----------



## Paddy855

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still trying to understand everything I hear. Voice on the 51 are well focussed and I notice that it is as if they come from a shaped face rather than just from a space. 

 I haven't compared it to the two above amps directly and will try to. I use the Ultrasone Ed. 9 most of the time, which for me, can dissect the sound in a good way but I also need time to really take in the subtle differences to give as honest opinion as possible.

 Oh, for those who have asked and emailed. It drives the HD650's just fine and to as loud as you would normally want, meaning that I can't listen as loud as the amp will drive them and still not distort. This is on medium gain._

 

Wow, I really can't wait to hear this midrange. If, in addition, the P-51's bass is equal or even better than the Predator's, then this is amp truly heaven on earth in portable audio world. Did you, by chance, have the time to compare the bass presentation of the Mustang and Predator, jamato?


----------



## jamato8

Compare the D2, D3, Predator. I will work at it.


----------



## Paddy855

Awesome! Can't wait for the comparison, especially considering your great experience with all of Ray's recent amps.


----------



## jamato8

I haven't done a real review of the 51 yet because I have been waiting for the sound to settle in to my head. The 51 presents in a little different way. It was unexpected that there is imaging more like a home amp and while I can't call it a home amp, the sound is extremely good with a sweet overtone. Violins are just so "right". It will take me a little longer to flesh out everything but the P-51 to be honest, is a surprise in a good way.


----------



## -=Germania=-

FYI - having heard a burned in P-51 and having gotten mine around 2PM yesterday.....

 The sound right out of the box with NO BURN IN is very flat sounding and bassy with a lack of soundstage and imaging. 

 The difference that the first 2-3 hours makes is night and day....though mine is at hour 18. Hour 15 was aweful. It was a case of all the improvements I heard over the first 7 hours disappeared and it sounded like a $20 CMoy. It was forced listening that hour for sure. 

 I have the first 7 hours pretty well documented right now. Hour 18 is MUCH better than Hour 15 was. Transparency and clarity are very evident. It is darn nice sounding now, but having heard the well burned in amp, I know it needs more time. 

 I also discovered that if you are planning to use the amp while on the charger...plug in all of your audio cords first, then the charger and not the other way around. If you do this, you can get some hum. If the order is reversed the hum is inaudible. You should notice hum with lower impedance cans (32ohm) with the amp at the upper levels of volume and I tried it in the high gain mode right out of the box and it was humming.

 That said, it seems to be going away and is barely audible with even my IEM's if thrown in high gain and volume turned up all of the way. *No inputs plugged in*

 Just another 60-80 hours to go! (Ray recommended ~100 hours)


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 I have a question. Which gain setting do you burn them in at? Do you have to switch between the different gain settings throughout the process to get it even? I'm not sure how I should go about with mine after I get them.

 Regards.


----------



## Pale Rider

W00t! My Mustang just arrived. I was in no way prepared for just how small it is. What a gorgeous piece of engineering. Starting the burn-in now.


----------



## jamato8

Images! I enjoy seeing what people are getting. Any colors?


----------



## Paddy855

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I have a question. Which gain setting do you burn them in at? Do you have to switch between the different gain settings throughout the process to get it even? I'm not sure how I should go about with mine after I get them.

 Regards._

 

I have the same question. What is the optimal (and fastest) way to burn in this amp? Does the gain setting make any difference; how far do I have to turn the volume up?

 I've also heard that IEMs are not the best choice to burn in an amp with. Is that true?


----------



## jamato8

Well if you want to draw more current through the amp then headphones that are harder to drive would be it. More current should equate to a faster forming period. Switch the gain if you want but that is just a small part of the circuit. Everything else is in the electrical and signal path and being used. I would also cycle the battery a couple of times to form it.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Crappy pics, but w/e

 Serial #1, Northwestern Edition


----------



## Lil' Knight

wow, I still can see your two fingerprints


----------



## jamato8

The more you listen to the P-51 the more you will appreciate it. I have also found, as noted earlier, that the forming period is longer than I thought but that the amp starts off great (after a few hours).


----------



## Pale Rider

I have about three hours into mine with my Westone 3s, sourced off an iPhone 3G and ALO Cryo SXC 22G LOD cable. The Mustang sounds better than I expected right out of the box. In the last few minutes, I have re-listened to stuff I tried about three hours ago. For example, listening to the Verdi Requiem [Messa Da Requiem: Dies Irae: Tuba Mirum] by Richard Hickox & the LSO [iTunes Plus]--and yes, I prefer the Solti/Vienna version, but I do not have as high a quality of source on that--I perceive a greater sense of openness around the horns, more of a fullness that is distinct from the hall acoustics. I am really looking forward to how this little amp develops over the next few days.


----------



## dadozen

jamato, I'm really looking forward for a P-51/SR-71A comparison. Please, don't let me down


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

I'm patiently waiting for reviews (from certain members) to see if this amp surpasses his other amps and is able to justify its price tag. Unlike the Hornet and the Tomahawk.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm patiently waiting for reviews (from certain members) to see if this amp surpasses his other amps and is able to justify its price tag. Unlike the Hornet and the Tomahawk._

 

If you don't think it justifies, then pass it and buy another one. Stop moaning about its worth or not.
 What happen if the reviewers rave it? Will you buy?


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't think it justifies, then pass it and buy another one. *Stop moaning about its worth or not.*
 What happen if the reviewers rave it? Will you buy?_

 

Pass and buy another one? That's what I've been doing all along.
 And to the bolded text.
 If one keeps criticizing, improvements will be made. That's progression. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If the reviewers rave it, I might buy it but most likely not. It's not portable. But if I do, it will be for a second hand price of course.

 I do not support products which fail to justify their prices unless they are the only options available.


----------



## nickyboyo

If you had ever owned a Tomahawk, and used it for a long period, you would know it is one of the only "portable" amps that is truly worth it's cost. The Hornet, yeah, just a nice amp, but the T-hawk is outstanding.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Keep in mind that the equipment used in testing is both portable and home. 

 Sources: iPod Touch, Zhaolu 2.5 w/ passive output stage *no op-amps* (Auzen Cinema>Toslink, Marantz CD5001>Coaxial)

 Pre-amp: Yamaha CA-600 pre-amp outs *used only when doing the home setup - killer pre-amp outputs*

 Cables: iPod - ((UPOCC solid/stranded copper + UPOCC solid silver, 6 wire) , (greater than 7/9 purity copper in micro porous teflon with a unique structure, 6 wires), and (UPOCC silver, 5 strands)). RCA - UPOCC silver in cotton + Tefon tube and UPOCC copper in Teflon

 Headphones: Modded and silver/copper recabled (6 wire) ESW9 (see sig), Modded and recabled UPOCC copper (6 wire) CD1000, 
 and silver/copper (w/rhodium plated copper pins) recabled (4 wire) FreQShow

 If you don't think that the Pico, Move series, and maybe the iQube are not worth the price, then you should look elsewhere because portables are not for you. I can say that the clarity and control it delivers for the price of a home amp is about what you would expect and IMO more (granted tried 32ohm headphones or lower). The fact that it is portable, long battery life, and tiny to boot to me represents a true value.

 If you are looking for a comparison with the Pico....they are two different sound signatures. Pico is a lush sound while the P-51 is a bit punchier. The advantage to me is that the P-51 has more clarity (distinctly), more extension on the top and bottom, and control while the Pico has a bit more soundstage and better imaging overall. At least to my ears...the Pico sounds more relaxed and about nuance while the P-51 is about clarity and control. The Pico can make a bad recording/lower bitrate listenable and the P-51 can make it sound worse/reveal the badness. *Please keep in mind that this is based on previous experience with the amp and currently having both on hand.*

 Fortunately, I have been able to try out many of the top portable amps out there (sans the Larocco) and this one replaced the Pico as my personal favorite. Please also note that I have not been a big fan of the RSA sound signature found in his other portable amps as they all seemed colored and darker than I cared for. 

 As far as synergy(I hate that buzzword, but w/e) goes, I am hearing amazing synergy between the ESW9 (modded and recabled - see sig) and the modded CD1000 - both were expected as I had tried regular ESW9 and my modded CD1000 with the P-51 before. Is it replacing my SSMH design based amplifier? Nope. (Granted that my particular amp represents hours of work and ~$225 in raw parts before shipping. Plus it has been specifically tuned for the CD1000). One is tube hybrid and one is SS. In this way, they are definitely compliments to each other. Though if for some tragic reason I was forced to sell my tube amp, I definitely could live with the Mustang for a while.

 Right now, I am dying to open this thing up out of personal curiosity. If someone tells me that it won't void the warranty, I am totally taking a look. Ray can post pics if he wants to 

*YMMV and this is IMO with the ~31Hours of Burn-in thus far. IT IS NOT A REVIEW!!!! just a little opinion*


----------



## isao2k8

My P-51 arrived! Here's a picture with SR-71A:







 It's really, really small


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you had ever owned a Tomahawk, and used it for a long period, you would know it is one of the only "portable" amps that is truly worth it's cost. The Hornet, yeah, just a nice amp, but the T-hawk is outstanding._

 

The Tomahawk and the Hornet do not sound good for their prices. Why pay for the Hornet when the Meier Headsix costs less than half the price and performs reasonably better than the Hornet. Even the Tomahawk is slightly less than double the price of the Headsix. Hundreds on hours on the Tomahawk but no one really needs hundreds and hundreds of hours. The Headsix lasts for more than 100 hours which is sufficient. Even the Minibox-D lasts more than 100 hours. And is 1/3 of the price of the Tomahawk in addition to sounding better. Impressive battery life does not mean a thing if the amplifier does not perform up to par. But of course. I'm not saying the Tomahawk and the Hornet sound bad. I'm saying there are better things than them for much cheaper prices. No doubt there are fans for Ray's "house" sound but this reminds me of people paying for Bose products just because they're "Bose". That said. I do hope many newcomers out there buy things because they are overhyped and "branded" products. I do not want to see a "respectable" company like RSA turn into the next Bose. But I don't see how that's possible anymore with the way things are going.

 And to Ray,
 You complain about me complaining about the P-51 being too thick because of the potentiometer. You *told me off* by telling me to find a good potentiometer which is small/slim enough. And I found one and even asked why the one you're currently using couldn't be attached sideways instead? You have yet to answer this and kept silent. I do not know how it would affect SQ but I doubt anyone would mind if it affects the SQ by a small margin while making the amp slimmer & more portable than it already is. Again I emphasize, decreasing the width and length don't mean a thing if the depth is still the same. That said, you're the manufacturer. And I'm the consumer. You're suppose to be the one finding the parts and improving your products, not me. If you can't accept the input of potential consumers (I suppose there are others) and even told them off, then I am disappointed. A 19 year old disappointed at someone older. How ironic.
 Good luck with your amps and future products.

 I do not expect any positive replies from this post but I do expect Head-fiers who intend to flame this post to post responsibly without anything linked emotionally when you reply, as I, myself has done so in my post.


----------



## Pale Rider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<SNIP>If the reviewers rave it, I might buy it but most likely not. It's not portable. <SNIP>._

 

Perhaps I am missing something, but "not portable"? Compared to what? I know you complained about its depth or thickness--which is of course your prerogative--but even in a dress suit, it's perfectly comfortable to carry the Mustang in my pant or breast pockets. Whether with my iPhone 3G, 4G Nano, or 5.5G iPod, this is an exceptionally portable unit. Would I like it even more if it was slimmer? Perhaps. But this is, at least for me, definitely a portable unit.


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 Nice point you have there. We're out to improve and should be more open to suggestions. It is natural for our defense system to kick in when we cannot see eye to eye.

 I'm sure Ray takes pride in whatever he produces and have tried nano sizing his amps as best as he could. He might have already been implementing from your point of view but of course the P51 is already a finished product.

 He should have had his own reasons and certain factors to take into consideration when the P51 was in the making. But of course after all I can see what you're driving at and I cannot disagree with you.

 I did order the P51 as well and I'm no RSA fan. I haven't even heard of any of his amps yet. I believe both the consumer and manufacturer will have their own rights to things. He might not be able to reveal to you why he can't do it. And you might just want something that can be done but just takes a little more time.

 I do hope my P51 comes soon... It reached Japan so when to Singapore?

 Regards.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My P-51 arrived! Here's a picutre with SR-71A:






 It's really, really small 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice image. I like the isolation.


----------



## RAQemUP

I can't seem to find it anywhere, but can someone tell me what the battery life and charge time of the Mustang is?


----------



## -=Germania=-

ZephrSappire, 

 I really do respect your opinion on this and other things. I don't think that you are really mad at RSA in general, but the whole industry. 

 As far as the potentiometer goes, side mounting would prove very difficult for a few reasons: 

 - would require a way to secure the jacks without any point of contact 
 - or would require a 90 degree PCB Mounted to the base PCB which again would add width and not be as secure as an on-board solution.

 As far as thin-ness is concerned, there are a few things to think about. 

 If I was putting it together... I would have the hardware mounting (all connections and the battery) and the Power/charging circuits on the top of the PCB. The Amp section would be on the bottom of the PCB. The power and battery sections are the key to the high level of current output and switching to replaceable batteries would be limiting. Also, even if you did mount the Potentiometer sideways, I would imagine that you would get only a few mm thinner since most potentiometers seem closer to squares than true rectangles. The Charging port that Ray uses seems to be the same as his other amps and the same used by many manufacturers. This means no unique PS for charging and it is a part that can be easily/cheaply replaced.

 As far as everything goes, it is still a pretty thin amp and is near identical to the Pico, iBasso D2/3, et al. in those terms. 

 Please do think about the costs/parts involved here with products. Does it really make a lot of sense to develop a Secondary portable potentiometer for something that will sell a thousand units and result in a few mm less thickness? The cost/benefit of that is just not there and would be more money to produce which would go to the end user. I do think that there are some really bargain portable amps out there and you pointed out a few (the Headsix is a real winner in my book with the Minibox E+ not too far behind).

 I understand where you are and the frustration in it. However, the bigger issue to me is what in the heck all of these portable sources are doing with these really poorly put together headphone jacks. I can't really even use my iPod touch headphone out because it hisses like crazy (no, it actually does still hiss when music is on - you just don't notice it as much) it is something that I notice even with 32ohm headphones. The power output on that device is also very weak on the headphone out, esp. when compared to older iPods. 

 For now, this is what we have and it is better than that which came before it. We must continue to improve, but to expect something immediately is unrealistic. I am in the same age group as you and regrettably growing up now gives you this sort of impression of the world. It is important to know that was don't live in a golden age of hi-fi like the 60's and 70's where much of the things that we enjoy now were developed. It would be nice though. A little patience and understanding of the other side can go a long way in things audio and life in general.

 ZephyrSapphire, I am still completely with you about the thickness and it would be a VERY nice thing to see in the future. I really want a small digital potentiometer implemented in an onboard solution for thinness and accuracy. However, that would be fairly costly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus, the potentiometer is IMO a huge factor in the sound. Really, try an amplifier with an Alps Blue Velvet and then switch it out for a Stepped one. Those are also audiophile quality potentiometers too with the stepped one really blowing the socks off of the Alps Blue IMO.

 Just to stress this, Zephyr, I am with you with regards to this in the industry as a whole.

 Cheers and have a (root) BEER


----------



## 40760

"The rechargeable Lithium Ion battery can deliver easy 7-8 days of playback at 8 hours per day of play back from single charge." 

 and

 "The P-51 comes with a charger/adaptor, you can charge the amp while listening to it or just turn it off & the battery will be full within 2-3 hours.
 No harm will be done to the battery if the charger is left on all the time."


----------



## max111

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My P-51 arrived! Here's a picutre with SR-71A:






 It's really, really small 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

cool... is your mustang black or wine?


----------



## isao2k8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *max111* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cool... is your mustang black or wine?_

 

This is black. P-51's black is close to dark brown.


----------



## 40760

Sweet... so this is what I should be expecting for mine...


----------



## LevA

can anyone post a pic with this amp and ipod classic? just want to see how it will be with the classic when you set it up together.

 thanks


----------



## glc

ZephrSappire, 

 As I say to my young 20-30 year old interns,

 ... unless you understand why things are done the way they currently are, why would you think that your idea(s) for improving the process or final product is so valid?...

 Ray Samuel is in business to put out products that fill a void while balancing quality, cost and profit. You are certainly entitled to an opinion, but your anger seems to be misplaced. Another thing, Ray is not in the business of jumping through hoops to RD methods to get his amps smaller. 

 Any business owner will also tell you that if it's been done before & applicable (financially & implementable) after reviewing the way someone else does it, the innovation will be copied/borrowed.


----------



## leftnose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone post a pic with this amp and ipod classic? just want to see how it will be with the classic when you set it up together.

 thanks_

 

Ask and ye shall receive:
















 The Mustang needs the rubber feet so it doesn't slide around on the case and to put less stress on the cables and jacks but I think I got the wrong color (ordered black and I would swear I have wine) so I don't want to stick the feet on the case until Ray has a chance to look at it and, maybe, swap cases.


----------



## RAQemUP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leftnose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but I think I got the wrong color (ordered black and I would swear I have wine) so I don't want to stick the feet on the case until Ray has a chance to look at it and, maybe, swap cases._

 

You definately do not have black. You could contact him but personally I think wine looks great.


----------



## max111

if u look at post#211 by isao2k8, his black mustang also looks more wine than black. well, since it is not exactly black, u have saved 15 bucks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for those who have received your black mustang, can i check if the knob looks more wine/dark brown (like the case) or black? thanks.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Can't believe you guys in Japan got it while I haven't heard of it


----------



## LevA

leftnose,

 thanks for the pictures! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 btw, the wine with gold nob looks really nice. might order the same color combo if i do get the mustang


----------



## qwertgfdsa

The colors in post#211 and #244 look so similar. I like this color. But is this color wine or black? There seem to be two opinions.


----------



## max111

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qwertgfdsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The colors in post#211 and #244 look so similar. I like this color. But is this color wine or black? There seem to be two opinions._

 

#211 and #224 u mean? they are the same colour, i.e. black


----------



## smart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't believe you guys in Japan got it while I haven't heard of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They must have been in the very first group who paid via PayPal. I paid mine on Nov 30, and still waiting. It will take a few days to fly across the globe to Thailand anyway.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Tomahawk and the Hornet do not sound good for their prices. Why pay for the Hornet when the Meier Headsix costs less than half the price and performs reasonably better than the Hornet. Even the Tomahawk is slightly less than double the price of the Headsix. Hundreds on hours on the Tomahawk but no one really needs hundreds and hundreds of hours. The Headsix lasts for more than 100 hours which is sufficient. Even the Minibox-D lasts more than 100 hours. And is 1/3 of the price of the Tomahawk in addition to sounding better. Impressive battery life does not mean a thing if the amplifier does not perform up to par. But of course. I'm not saying the Tomahawk and the Hornet sound bad. I'm saying there are better things than them for much cheaper prices. No doubt there are fans for Ray's "house" sound but this reminds me of people paying for Bose products just because they're "Bose". That said. I do hope many newcomers out there buy things because they are overhyped and "branded" products. I do not want to see a "respectable" company like RSA turn into the next Bose. But I don't see how that's possible anymore with the way things are going.

 And to Ray,
 You complain about me complaining about the P-51 being too thick because of the potentiometer. You *told me off* by telling me to find a good potentiometer which is small/slim enough. And I found one and even asked why the one you're currently using couldn't be attached sideways instead? You have yet to answer this and kept silent. I do not know how it would affect SQ but I doubt anyone would mind if it affects the SQ by a small margin while making the amp slimmer & more portable than it already is. Again I emphasize, decreasing the width and length don't mean a thing if the depth is still the same. That said, you're the manufacturer. And I'm the consumer. You're suppose to be the one finding the parts and improving your products, not me. If you can't accept the input of potential consumers (I suppose there are others) and even told them off, then I am disappointed. A 19 year old disappointed at someone older. How ironic.
 Good luck with your amps and future products.

 I do not expect any positive replies from this post but I do expect Head-fiers who intend to flame this post to post responsibly without anything linked emotionally when you reply, as I, myself has done so in my post._

 

With respect, don't like it don't buy it. Your negative comments in every thread regarding RSA are nothing but hot air. Stick to what you like.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even the Xin SuperMini and SuperMicro are not much thinner and they have no charging circuitry._

 

Correction, SuperMini do have charging circuit built in along with impedance, gain, bass boost and cross feed jumper. Not to forget ability to roll opamp too. For SuperMicro, it possible to make it as flat as SuperMini and Minibox E. Xin choose to stack the board 2 sided. Can be easily mod by shifting the batt and cap to the side. But i love the look of supermicro. Like a filter.


----------



## -=Germania=-

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up, I will make the changes accordingly.


----------



## badbad2000

Sound better or not I think really depend on individual. But a good matching of amp and headphone will really make a different. I believe RSA always welcome customer feedback on product but still up to the their decision to implement such feedback. If RSA still one of the leader in portable amp, their product should have meet certain quality against value that attract majority buyers. Same question, why ppl can spend $5 for a shirt but buy $100. Overprice? Oil price keep goes up, even I think overprice also no use. Still need to pump petrol. chuckles.

 I think RSA has their reputation not from one or two days. We have to take into consideration of time factor. Maybe when Tomahawk release that time, there is really no competition at that categories. 

 Mustang small enough? not enough slim? If RSA can make it itouch that slim in this point of time, I really find no reason for them not to produce.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up, I will make the changes accordingly._

 






 Just clarification. But I do agree that there is certain limit to being thin. That is none other than the caps that is being use. Most amp size is limit by the size of the caps.


----------



## wolfen68

To any new portable audio enthusiasts who look at these amps and lament why they can't be smaller...don't forget how things were only 5 or 6 years ago. There were very limited amp options with DIY'ers (albeit talented) filling the demand. Amps were being built in candy tins and if you could find something decent sounding in a stock hammond case....that was like winning the lottery. 

 The advances in sound and build quality, size and selection in such a short time period is nothing short of amazing. The industry is now full of professionally built options that are superior to their predecessors. Not much to complain about IMO.


----------



## digihead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To any new portable audio enthusiasts who look at these amps and lament why they can't be smaller...don't forget how things were only 5 or 6 years ago. There were very limited amp options with DIY'ers (albeit talented) filling the demand. Amps were being built in candy tins and if you could find something decent sounding in a stock hammond case....that was like winning the lottery. 

 The advances in sound and build quality, size and selection in such a short time period is nothing short of amazing. The industry is now full of professionally built options that are superior to their predecessors. Not much to complain about IMO._

 

Hear, hear...very well said. Quit complaining about an amp being thinner, it is getting tiring. You want to purchase a fantastic really small portable amp then do it. you want something razor thin go build it yourself.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digihead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hear, hear...very well said. Quit complaining about an amp being thinner, it is getting tiring. You want to purchase a fantastic really small portable amp then do it. you want something razor thin go build it yourself._

 

I wouldn't bother a word of him saying.

 I've just received my P51, it's super tiny and really all dark black.


----------



## cardude

To those who have received their Mustangs; what was the method of shipment? In other words, should I be watching for the UPS guy, FedEx or the mailman?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.

 Happy Motoring!


----------



## leftnose

Mine came FedEx Express Saver


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cardude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To those who have received their Mustangs; what was the method of shipment? In other words, should I be watching for the UPS guy, FedEx or the mailman?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks.

 Happy Motoring!_

 

Ray uses Fedex as a reliable and prompt conveyer of amps to your doorstep. Normally when they deliver one of Ray's amps they bow and present it with hands outstretched.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't bother a word of him saying.

 I've just received my P51, it's super tiny and really all dark black.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

dark black?


----------



## cardude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leftnose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came FedEx Express Saver_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray uses Fedex as a reliable and prompt conveyer of amps to your doorstep. Normally when they deliver one of Ray's amps they bow and present it with hands outstretched._

 


 Cool. That means there's still a chance that I could see mine tomorrow, since FedEx delivers on Saturdays.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The waiting is always the hardest part.


----------



## DoubleEs

Don't they charge extra for Saturday delivery?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dark black?_

 

Yup. I don't feel any wine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's ultra-light, I really don't feel the weight when pairing with my Nano.
 I had to build a new LOD for it cos the jack is too small and my Switchcraft plug is huge with it.















 I found that it only sounds good when using high gain, the low and mid gain sound powerless with my OK2.


----------



## nickyboyo

Nice rig there Lil, that nano and p-51 combo looks really good. 
 (i still kick myself to this day for selling my tomahawk, the nano and t-hawk combo looked good and sounded great)


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yeah, they really match together! Quite happy with the new LOD, not 'bling' but very flexible so that I can throw them into the pouch without worrying anything.

 And they sound really good


----------



## flargosa

Lil' Knight, could you elaborate a bit more? What do you mean low and mid gain sound powerless when driving your OK2? The OK2 is only 16 ohm. How does it sound like? Are you hearing some distortion, weak bass or low volume?

 What Ray said was that

 "The amp can output 250ma of current, per channel, enough to drive all headphones to very acceptable level of sound"

 I'm hearing a little bit of discrepancy here.


----------



## Lil' Knight

The first impression when I plugged my custom IEM C1000 and OK2 in is the sound really flat, and thin. The treble seems too much and bass is not really impressive. The mid is very nice though. Then I tried the mid and high gain respectively. The sound this time really improves a lot, more powerful and dynamic. I only leave the volume @ about 30% and it does drive my OK2 very nicely. I haven't tried with the big cans like the HD650,ESW10 and DX1000 yet, but until now, it really does a nice job considering its size.


----------



## ethanlowe

I received my Mustangs today. The color is black. In the P-51 Instruction Manual. Ray stated that " the amp should be charge over night " I am currently charging my amp. Does anyone know the answer to this question. *How do you know the P -51 is being charge *? I don't see anything indicate on the amp, that it is being charge by the charger ( The charger is the one that cane with the amp ) after I plug the charger into the amp. Should a light come on the amp to that is being charge and goes off to show that it is fully charge. When I used other rechargeable devices they all have a light or a meter to shown that the device is charging . I just want to know if anybody is having the same issue. or that is normal for Ray's rechargeable amp

 Thank you 
 for any input !!!!!


----------



## Sasaki

Mine has arrived.
 The P-51 is amazingly small, actually even smaller than Tomahawk.






 Now charging .. can't wait


----------



## Lil' Knight

Oops, I've just noticed that my knob is brass not black lol.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethanlowe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Mustangs today. The color is black. In the P-51 Instruction Manual. Ray stated that " the amp should be charge over night " I am currently charging my amp. Does anyone know the answer to this question. *How do you know the P -51 is being charge *? I don't see anything indicate on the amp, that it is being charge by the charger ( The charger is the one that cane with the amp ) after I plug the charger into the amp. Should a light come on the amp to that is being charge and goes off to show that it is fully charge. When I used other rechargeable devices they all have a light or a meter to shown that the device is charging . I just want to know if anybody is having the same issue. or that is normal for Ray's rechargeable amp

 Thank you 
 for any input !!!!!_

 

It comes with some charge on it and only takes a couple of hours to charge if discharged. The red switch will lightly blink when the battery is low and you start to charge it (if you turn the switch on). If there is still very much charge on the battery you will get a very dim to no blinking when charging. When fully charged there is no blinking.


----------



## leftnose

I am starting to get some time on this new amp and it's better than my TH. It's certainly more transparent and revealing. I can actually hear a slight buzzing/whirring as the HD on my iPod spins to cache a song. Never heard this before with my TH.

 I need to give it some more time to burn-in but it seems to be a keeper.

 I do tend to travel quite a bit internationally so I'll keep the TH for its long battery life and easily replaced batteries but I'm glad I picked up this Mustang!


----------



## Gollie

Arrived today!

 I'm equally amazed at this tiny size and BIG sound this little gem has.

 Thanks Ray!!!


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'm using the HD650 with it. Not bad at all. Very tight bass and sparkling treble. Very impressive indeed. 
 It does drive high impedance cans better than low ones, which makes me surprised.


----------



## jamato8

Well I stated it worked well with the 650's, which is a nice treat as they can take the juice. 

 Wait till you get even more hours on it. I was out today doing a number of things on the bike and when safe I would flip on the music via my iRiver H140 with a 120gb drive and the 51 with my Portapros. Great fun with all the good depth and quality sound on the go.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Definitely. I'll give it a burn-in tonight and bring it along on my trip tomorrow. Should be a nice treat


----------



## EGA

Body Blue, Ends Dark Grey, Knob Brass






 P-51, Zippo(iBassoT4), pico


----------



## xryptic

Wow that color combi is a beauty, congratz


----------



## -=Germania=-

You need burn in that was the same impression I had right out of the box.


----------



## Gollie

I'm anxious to see how everyone is going to carry this thing around. It is so small!

 I could velcro but I leave the back open to scratches. I could put it in a camera bag but I have to pull it out to change the volume/change tracks.

 It looks so good I have to keep the finish protected.


----------



## BushGuy

I tend to put these things in my shirt pocket (unless you have a thick dap). I choose to use an iModded iPod of 30-40gig capacity (higher capacity=thicker, heavier) and have it in a simple case.....then velcro (meaning 4 small pieces of velcro, NOT a band of velcro around everything) the iPod to the amp.. Fits in the shirt (or Jacket) pocket (it IS supposed to be portable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and works fine.


----------



## ethanlowe

Jamato08

 Thank you for your answer to my question. I will do as you suggested and see what happen


 E


----------



## RAQemUP

Personally, I was gonna use the 4 rubber feet on the top of the amp to create a space between the Mustang and the DAP in combination with one of those rubber wristband things like those Livestrong bands. This way it will be held securely together and the DAP and amp won't scratch together.

 Then again it may add more thickness to the whole portable aspect of it all but will have to see.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need burn in that was the same impression I had right out of the box._

 

Yup. Just left it running all nite with the load is the HD650.


----------



## BushGuy

...........or most decent radios have an "aux out". Simply plug the amp into the radios' out, and use any headphone for loading...........let the setup just play away 24/7. Obviously re-charging amp battery as necessary.

 By the way - using the velcro as I suggested above causes a gap between dap and amp. To me, the slimmer the better (also true for the ladies).


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...........or most decent radios have an "aux out". Simply plug the amp into the radios' out, and use any headphone for loading...........let the setup just play away 24/7. Obviously re-charging amp battery as necessary.

 By the way - using the velcro as I suggested above causes a gap between dap and amp. To me, the slimmer the better (also true for the ladies)._

 


 True for MOST ladies. Can think of some skinny ones that could be nightmares


----------



## 40760

Do you guys recommend Velcro strap overs or the adhesive kinds on both devices?


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EGA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

Wow! I really like this color combo.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guys recommend Velcro strap overs or the adhesive kinds on both devices?_

 

FWIW: You can't get more compact and more secure than using the sticky Velcro, to Amp-to-iPod fastening.

 And, if you ever want to remove it, just peel it off really slow - and you should wind up with virtually no residue.

 I can't figure out why so many folks use the various "rubber band" connectors. They seem intrusive, and detract from the combo look. (imho)

 Slap on the Velcro, and go!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Mine. My P51 has been burning all day and now it sounds awesome with the HD650. Really don't know why it sounds so normal with my IEMs but turns out to be a monster with big cans. Can't wait to get my ESW10JPN to try it. Should be an ultimate portable rig


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine. My P51 has been burning all day and now it sounds awesome with the HD650. Really don't know why it sounds so normal with my IEMs but turns out to be a monster with big cans. Can't wait to get my ESW10JPN to try it. Should be an ultimate portable rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm also interested in the sound with ESW10's!! Anyone out there who have tried it with these HPs, please let us know how they sound and the synergy between the two !!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW: You can't get more compact and more secure than using the sticky Velcro, to Amp-to-iPod fastening.

 And, if you ever want to remove it, just peel it off really slow - and you should wind up with virtually no residue.

 I can't figure out why so many folks use the various "rubber band" connectors. They seem intrusive, and detract from the combo look. (imho)

 Slap on the Velcro, and go!_

 

Solution, solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




















 Velcro, rubber band? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also interested in the sound with ESW10's!! Anyone out there who have tried it with these HPs, please let us know how they sound and the synergy between the two !!_

 

Definitely I'll give some feedbacks on this combo. Really can't wait to try it.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Definitely I'll give some feedbacks on this combo. Really can't wait to try it._

 

thanks! look forward to it.


----------



## slypher

ever try blue tack or a reusable self adhesive putty. I have used them in the past to secure bookshelf speakers to stands. A thin layer goes a long way and leaves no residue.


----------



## Gberg

nice pouch... perfect size...

 i want one!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Got both the case and pouch @ 16$. Dirt cheap


----------



## badbad2000

Anyone try the Mustang with D5000 (stock) yet? Would love to hear your comment.


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got both the case and pouch @ 16$. Dirt cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got a older camera case that looks similar to what you have there.

 I'm going to see if my classic fits with the Mustang tomorrow. The only issue is that I will have to take out the whole setup to change the song or adjust the volume.


----------



## smart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a older camera case that looks similar to what you have there.

 I'm going to see if my classic fits with the Mustang tomorrow. The only issue is that I will have to take out the whole setup to change the song or adjust the volume._

 

Same here ... I've planned to try putting them into small camera case. Changing of songs can probably be solved by properly set your favorite albums into the favorite playlists. For adjusting the volume, we may use to dip the finger tips (thumb and point fingers) into the bag and use your feeling.

 I'm currently doing this with my Blackbird, it's in a bigger bag (of course).


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a older camera case that looks similar to what you have there.

 I'm going to see if my classic fits with the Mustang tomorrow. The only issue is that I will have to take out the whole setup to change the song or adjust the volume._

 

I also have an old camera pouch but it's not padded so not really safe to carry these. I now use the P51's pouch for my C1000 lol.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Modded and Recabled ESW9 + P51 (and a Linout that uses silver in some portion) = portable heaven

 I have been doing the home burn in using the Modded and recabled CD1000 and it sounds pretty nice. However, it barely powers the Audio Technica AT-701 (Something powered easily by my sooped up SSMH - 1amp PSU and 3 channel w/ premium parts)


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Modded and Recabled ESW9 + P51 (and a Linout that uses silver in some portion) = portable heaven_

 

Can one assume it would also be great with ESW10? I will be getting my HP delivered this week and am considering buying the mustang P51.


----------



## 40760

I will be receiving my pre-ordered pair of esw10 sometime this week, hopefully on Wednesday. My P-51 is currently burning in and will only be fully done by Thursday. I must say I'm thrilled by the size and performance ratio.


----------



## davtse

hmm, i wonder those who have listened to the p-51 so far, does it sound like any of the other RSA amps out there?


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 Was wondering if the 3M Command™ Picture hanging Strips will work for my iPod Nano and Amp. It's the kind that can be easily taken off when not in use. But I don't know if it's strong enough for this purpose? Both the Nano and P-51 shouldn't be that heavy though.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Was wondering if the 3M Command™ Picture hanging Strips will work for my iPod Nano and Amp. It's the kind that can be easily taken off when not in use. But I don't know if it's strong enough for this purpose? Both the Nano and P-51 shouldn't be that heavy though._

 

It will. I'm using it. Take a look at my attached nano and p51.


----------



## 40760

Sounds good but I was rather worried I might accidentally pull the tab and release the Velcro. I will go ahead and buy then tomorrow.


----------



## Clok

Anyone tried P-51 with the IE8's?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good but I was rather worried I might accidentally pull the tab and release the Velcro. I will go ahead and buy then tomorrow._

 

Just use 2 sticks and they will be fine.
 They leave no marks after removing.


----------



## uberburger101

@ Lil' Knight: Just wondering, what format are you using in your Nano? Because I've heard that the P51 works best with lossless files, but a Nano's capacity isn't exactly suitable for lossless.


----------



## acidtripwow

What LOD are people using with this amp? I have an ALO Cryo and the 1/8" connector is rubbing up against the volume knob.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uberburger101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Lil' Knight: Just wondering, what format are you using in your Nano? Because I've heard that the P51 works best with lossless files, but a Nano's capacity isn't exactly suitable for lossless._

 

I use WAV on it. My library is only about 200 songs which is far enough for me because I rarely stay in the library >4hours. And I have the habit of keep hearing about 100 favorite songs.

 @acidtripwow: the LOD with Neutrik plug is fine. Switchcraft or Canare is useless here. I'm building the lowest-profile LOD ever, using the smallest plug, even smaller than Neutrik 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ultimate portable


----------



## jamato8

I have many songs/album in apple lossless on my iriver h140, which I realize at 120gb (after changing the hard drive) but I normally keep listing to the same songs so I can see where 100 songs might do it for a while.


----------



## Lil' Knight

The P51 and ESW10JPN is a best portable combo I've ever heard. The treble is really amazing, can't believe it!


----------



## LevA

*Lil'Knight,*

 good to hear that they sound great together!
 btw, congrats on your ESw10's. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 this wating is killing me...


----------



## Lil' Knight

It does worth the wait.
 I had to wait 45 days to get my DAC too, but when it came, I can't be happier.

 I'm thinking of buying the case for this baby...


----------



## SierraHotel01

Mustang showed up via Fedex a day early. 

 (Fedex is great - didn't even have a tracking number, and when I called, they actually called the driver and told him to deliver it today - not wait until tomorrow as scheduled. Then they called me back and told me when the driver would arrive - within 5 minutes!)

 OK:
 I absolutely LOVE my Tomahawk. It was a sound epiphiny when I first plugged into it, and it's only gotten better since.

 I actually had myself prepared for an incremental only change in SQ. 

 Figured the "big pole in the tent" was my new Westone 3's. 

 New IEM's, especially ones as special as the 3's (sent to planet Earth from another galaxy) would be expected to influence the signal train SQ more than a slight amp upgrade, right?

 WRONG!

 I've been raving about the 3's for most of a week now, and couldn't imagine any significant SQ improvement, no matter what amp I plugged them into.

 Again, WRONG!

 With apologies & kudos to Ray Samuels (simultaneously) :

 Now, after a taste of the Mustang, listening through the Tomahawk is: "like kissing your sister".

 WOW!!!

 Thank you Ray; THANK YOU!

 Three-word summary: transparency, detail & punch.

 Listening to the Tomahawk now, is like going back to PK2's, after listening to the Westone 3's. It's that big a delta!

 Let's start at the bottom:
 low frequencies extend significantly lower than the Tomahawk - and they are MUCH tighter, less muddy (although the Tomahawk's bass never, ever sounded muddy to me, UNTIL I tasted the Mustang - now it does). Ray has made the bass passband as crisp and clear as a well rendered high frequency passband - it's like the bass has air, as well razor sharp attack, and everything else!

 Mids: it's like I was looking through a window - with the Tomahawk, and the window was covered by a thin layer of vaseline (blurry). 

 With the Mustang, it's like someone just Windexed the window! Crystal clear, yet as sweet as you can imagine.

 Highs: This portion of the frequency spectrum is like:
 listening to a band play from the alley outside (with the Toomahawk)
 versus, walking inside and sitting in the front row - getting ALL the "air" and detail you were missing outside.

 Entire spectrum - Attack: the Mustang is razor sharp, even compared to the Tomahawk, which I used to think was detailed. Not even close.

 Decay: as natural as I've ever heard.

 Synergy with W3's: uncanny!!!

 First musical "test vector" I ran through the Mustang was Ray's "Bella Sonus: Enamoured" album (my #1 go-to test of a new component)

 Sounds like I just walked into the room where they were playing.

 Holy freakin' CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!

 Yeah, it's that good (especially with the 3's)

 PS: know anyone who wants to buy a lovingly used 1,000 hour Tomahawk?

 I'm done now, for awhile.


----------



## 40760

You've got to burn them in for a 100 hours, mine's into the 3rd day and it can't stop getting better! But I have to warn you that sometime in between it does sound lousier but it does get better again.


----------



## 40760

Okay a gentle reminder to those who can't tell if the amp is charging, etc. I believe Jamato had touched on this before but I'm going to put it up by request of some. Here goes:


 The power indication light will only turn on when the switch is ON.

 So this is how you tell how much charge your amp is holding by the switch light:

 Blinking/ Pulsating Red - Very Low Charge (You should charge it now)

 Faint Red - Half or Low Charge.

 Bright Red - Full to High Charge.


 You can turn On the switch every now and then to monitor the charge. Currently mine has run 2 days after the 1st charge and is still going well.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You've got to burn them in for a 100 hours, mine's into the 3rd day and it can't stop getting better! But I have to warn you that sometime in between it does sound lousier but it does get better again._

 

If the Mustang (4 hours burn-in) gets any better with the 3's, after 100 hours of burn-in, my head is gonna explode!

 Thank you Ray!
 Thank you Westone!

 Merry Christmas to one & all.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Nice write-up, Ken


----------



## YtseJamer

WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mustang showed up via Fedex a day early. 

 (Fedex is great - didn't even have a tracking number, and when I called, they actually called the driver and told him to deliver it today - not wait until tomorrow as scheduled. Then they called me back and told me when the driver would arrive - within 5 minutes!)

 OK:
 I absolutely LOVE my Tomahawk. It was a sound epiphiny when I first plugged into it, and it's only gotten better since.

 I actually had myself prepared for an incremental only change in SQ. 

 Figured the "big pole in the tent" was my new Westone 3's. 

 New IEM's, especially ones as special as the 3's (sent to planet Earth from another galaxy) would be expected to influence the signal train SQ more than a slight amp upgrade, right?

 WRONG!

 I've been raving about the 3's for most of a week now, and couldn't imagine any significant SQ improvement, no matter what amp I plugged them into.

 Again, WRONG!

 With apologies & kudos to Ray Samuels (simultaneously) :

 Now, after a taste of the Mustang, listening through the Tomahawk is: "like kissing your sister".

 WOW!!!

 Thank you Ray; THANK YOU!

 Three-word summary: transparency, detail & punch.

 Listening to the Tomahawk now, is like going back to PK2's, after listening to the Westone 3's. It's that big a delta!

 Let's start at the bottom:
 low frequencies extend significantly lower than the Tomahawk - and they are MUCH tighter, less muddy (although the Tomahawk's bass never, ever sounded muddy to me, UNTIL I tasted the Mustang - now it does). Ray has made the bass passband as crisp and clear as a well rendered high frequency passband - it's like the bass has air, as well razor sharp attack, and everything else!

 Mids: it's like I was looking through a window - with the Tomahawk, and the window was covered by a thin layer of vaseline (blurry). 

 With the Mustang, it's like someone just Windexed the window! Crystal clear, yet as sweet as you can imagine.

 Highs: This portion of the frequency spectrum is like:
 listening to a band play from the alley outside (with the Toomahawk)
 versus, walking inside and sitting in the front row - getting ALL the "air" and detail you were missing outside.

 Entire spectrum - Attack: the Mustang is razor sharp, even compared to the Tomahawk, which I used to think was detailed. Not even close.

 Decay: as natural as I've ever heard.

 Synergy with W3's: uncanny!!!

 First musical "test vector" I ran through the Mustang was Ray's "Bella Sonus: Enamoured" album (my #1 go-to test of a new component)

 Sounds like I just walked into the room where they were playing.

 Holy freakin' CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!

 Yeah, it's that good (especially with the 3's)

 PS: know anyone who wants to buy a lovingly used 1,000 hour Tomahawk?

 I'm done now, for awhile._


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice write-up, Ken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, Lil' Knight.

 Now, I guess it's time to start saving for ESW10's, after your write up about their synergy with the uncanny Mustang.


----------



## max111

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Mustang (4 hours burn-in) gets any better with the 3's, after 100 hours of burn-in, my head is gonna explode!

 Thank you Ray!
 Thank you Westone!

 Merry Christmas to one & all._

 

hi, is this with custom or universal tip? can't imagine what custom tip will do to u if you have been using the universal tip so far


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Lil' Knight.

 Now, I guess it's time to start saving for ESW10's, after your write up about their synergy with the uncanny Mustang._

 

lol, this hobby is so dangerous.


----------



## flargosa

I read it somewhere in this forum, don't remember by who. That the P-51 battery needs some burn-in as well, meaning cycles of full charge and discharges. Anybody can comment on this? What's the reason behind?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flargosa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read it somewhere in this forum, don't remember by who. That the P-51 battery needs some burn-in as well, meaning cycles of full charge and discharges. Anybody can comment on this? What's the reason behind?_

 

The battery is chemical based. There are properties of this chemical and electrical conduction system that changes just like a capacitor does. A battery is a capacitor and has many reactions going on which form with charging and discharge. Rechargeables actually need to be charged and discharged a few times to obtain their maximum current capability, which also represents some of the changes going on.


----------



## flargosa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The battery is chemical based. There are properties of this chemical and electrical conduction system that changes just like a capacitor does. A battery is a capacitor and has many reactions going on which form with charging and discharge. *Rechargeables actually need to be charged and discharged a few times to obtain their maximum current capability*, which also represents some of the changes going on._

 

I take it that a fully burned-in battery provides more current which means better SQ? Is this about right?


----------



## hockeyb213

Well it is better able to handle current swings and whatnot which I assume adds to the the sq? I am still on my tysonics first charge for my blackbird so I may need to watch what happens


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flargosa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I take it that a fully burned-in battery provides more current which means better SQ? Is this about right?_

 

No, what I meant is that total storage of amperes is increased from that of a new battery. If a battery is supposed to have an ability to store 1 amp that is often not the case until the battery has been charged and discharged a few times. Other chemical properties of the battery also change to a degree. I don't have a paper right here to site but have read of the factors that cause the change and that it is an anticipated normal occurrence.


----------



## 40760

The process is called battery calibration. You need to fully discharge and charge it right up to full once every month or so. If you decide to store it away it's best to have about half charge, and not full charge or empty. This is applicable to laptops and other electronic devices too.


----------



## flargosa

Ok, thanks for the info! Anybody past the 100 hr burn-in yet? Any changes beyond that point?


----------



## yihyan

i noticed that during charging, the mustang will emit static charge when i touch it.... is it just me or....?


----------



## glc

The battery on the P51 is a Lithium ion battery. From my experience with my laptops, FULL discharges will damage Lithium Ion batteries by shortening it's lifespan. My Laptop batteries lost 5-7% of it's total design life each time it got a "calibration". I finally stopped this after 3 cycles and everything has been fine since. 

 Fully discharging a battery to calibrate it regularly is for NiCad of NiMH type.


----------



## 40760

Just received my esw10 and I'm pairing it with my Mustang. Well... _*what can i say?*_


----------



## max111

for the sake of my and everyone's wallet, please can someone comment the mustang/esw9 combo. esw10 costs 2x than esw9


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my esw10 and I'm pairing it with my Mustang. Well... *what can i say?*_


----------



## 40760

Ok the band is kinda tight so I guess it takes getting used to. Any idea how many hours do the esw10 needs? My mustang needs about 2 more days.

 It gives me a totally new feel when listening to *Cut Copy - In Ghost Colours* in a very supreme way.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The battery on the P51 is a Lithium ion battery. From my experience with my laptops, FULL discharges will damage Lithium Ion batteries by shortening it's lifespan. My Laptop batteries lost 5-7% of it's total design life each time it got a "calibration". I finally stopped this after 3 cycles and everything has been fine since. 

 Fully discharging a battery to calibrate it regularly is for NiCad of NiMH type._

 

Even Apple states to discharge the battery to get the most out of it but not every month. I was referring to doing this at first. Interesting though that you found a decrease in life or storage. Worth noting. 

 On sound I think it is just the forming and change that the battery goes through from new to being a battery that has gone through the normal chemical shift after use.


----------



## badbad2000

you can search cnet there is explaination of Lithium ion battery. "Li-ion and Li-ion polymer: Used on a lot of newer devices, has no "memory" effect, should be recharged as often as possible, actually likes to be charged and draining it regularly can cause the usage time to be shortened, can NEVER be overcharged so whenever you're near a charger put it on there. Besides those benefits a li-ion battery is lighter and smaller but the chemical can hold more charge than Ni-cad and Ni-mh."


----------



## 40760

Sounds interesting, I've been told to do that to my laptop's battery though I hardly bring my Macbook Pro out of the house. I'm using it straight from the mains with the battery half charged, stored away in my drawer.

 A good thing to note that leaving the charger in does not do any damage to the battery. Cause I did that to my Powerbook's and it died within 7 months.


----------



## Derivatives_Beast

Off topic but what the Hades, hey palestofwhite, MBP uses only one processor core if battery is taken out. I may be wrong, if so, apologies everyone.


----------



## williamchc

Just received my P-51 today, and shot some pictures~


----------



## 40760

Hi, I'm not sure about that... interesting to note though... I've been using it like this for about a year and it's kinda OK for my usage. I've learnt my lesson to remove the battery if I'm not going to use it portable.


----------



## jamato8

On my Mac I never remove the battery (I do have a spare) and have had no problems for over 3 years. Sorry to get off topic.


----------



## Gberg

williamchc,

 that's the exact colour combo i was going to order!


----------



## Lil' Knight

I ordered an all black but got the same as yours, william.
 The brass does look nice, I don't like the gold know.


----------



## 40760

I was only lucky to have my faulty Powerbook battery recalled. But that only happened after I bought a new one to replace it. Which leaves me with 2. Have upgraded to an MBP since.


----------



## -=Germania=-

*[size=small]Equipment:[/size] *

*Tried with 4 diff LODs: * * All UPOCC Quality* ( 1. Unique Solid Copper structure using microporous Teflon 6 wire | 2. Solid Silver in Natural Medical Grade thin Teflon 5 wire | 3. Multiple gauge combination of solid Copper in clear Teflon, solid Silver in Natural Teflon, and stranded Copper in PE - 6 wire | 4. Stranded Copper in PE and Solid silver in Natural teflon - 7 wire) 

*RCA Cables:* UPPOCC Silver in Cotton, UPOCC Copper in Teflon

*Headphones:* ESW9 with mods and 6 strand silver/copper recable, CD1000 with mods and UPOCC 6 wire recable. Recabled silver/copper FreqShow.

*Sources:* iPod Touch w/ Apple Lossless, Marantz/Auzen -> Modded Zhaolu 2.5 w/Passive Output Stage

*Pre-amp:* Yamaha CA-600 Pre-amp outs (superb, noiseless, fully discrete pre-amp)


*[size=small]Sound:[/size] *

*0 Hour:*
 w/ALL: Flat, bassy, very odd soundstage (cymbals hit in the right locations, but vocals are right up against the ear drum), performs best with the “Six Special” to fix the soundstage.

*1 Hour:* Imaging settling. Sonics evening, more detail.

*Hour 3:* Bass has calmed quite a bit (more controlled and even). Still a bit squirrely though

*Hour 4-6:* Getting much better about presenting a more full sound.

*Hour 7:* Goes to flat one dimensional sound like an old car radio type of sound (only a hifi version ?)….

*Hour 15:* much more even response. Bass is thoroughly controlled and MUCH more balanced. Treble still needs excitement. Soundstage is still a bit too contained. More clarity.

*Hour 16:* Needed to turn up the volume, imaging is better.

*First Real Break *~25hours

*Hour 31:* Superb soundstage and bass, still needs more sparkle

*Hour 42:* Much more balanced and bass is actually less, very controlled. Incredible Treble performance

*Hour 58:* Very sweet sound, but almost too much with Mids being overpowering

*Second break:* ~75hours

*Hour 78: *Transparency and soundstage just hear all of the echoing overtones of a concert hall.

*Hour 92:* Crystal Clear sound, I mean sparkling clear with a jaw dropping effect of transparency. Sound has impact and is balanced top to bottom. I have heard no changes past this hour thus far. Maybe at 500 hours? – doubtful though….


*[size=small]What Can I say about the P-51?[/size] *

 Well, based on the headphones I own and have tried… It is one of the VERY FEW portable amps that I consider and you should too that are good enough to be home amps as well (in a middle of the road system). It is a BALANCED sound with killer soundstage. The control it exhibits is nothing short of outstanding. The Mustang is an amazingly neutral sounding amplifier and sounds more neutral than my old Pico. It is my personal favorite over any of the portable amps I have tried and is among my favorite amps ever heard. This little bugger is hard to believe how small it is when you listen to it. Others may well remark the same. 

 It has a lot of PUNCH and PRaT. You can feel every single guitar string and horn blast, a feeling that I have rarely had in going to meets and such (even with setups costing many orders of magnitude more). It really does create a new standard out there, in this case for more than just the portable market. 

 Having Lossly files is only going to hurt you with this amp. If you are using 192kbps MP3, look elsewhere. This amp is going to reveal every flaw and the combo will sound aweful. Also, get decent cables. I am not saying get some crazy expensive cable, but just like a high end home system it will show its benefits. Though I have no idea why there are people who use $150 cables on a $150 or less amps….seriously. Cables are not miracle workers or magic. A good cable will just show you what the equipment can do, they will not “fix” the rest of the equipment. (There are some manufacturer exceptions when it comes to headphones – Sony comes to mind very quickly  ). The thing is be sure that you have equipment to match it for you to truly appreciate it. That means the TOTL portable headphones and nice home headphones if you plan to also use it that way.

_The priorities of music in my mind are: 
 Source > Headphones > Amplifier > Cables 
 *So please account accordingly*_

*[size=small]Is it is the same “House Sound” as the other RSA amps?[/size] *

 No. At least not in my opinion. The other amps always seemed overly lush, sweet, and dark for my tastes. This is a clean, controlled, transparent sound. The RSA amps always seemed like you were drinking Irish Crème or a thick White Russian. Good, but far to lingering a heavy. This amp is like a Margarita (real one w/salt) or probably better a Mojito. Easy to drink all day, but clean and refreshing with a sweet hint. 


*[size=small]What’s my Caveat?[/size] *

 The hissing of when in the wrong gain mode! I have noticed a noise floor using high gain with 32ohm headphones that does not exist in low or middle gain (volume at the upper limits – grounded source that is off even still has hiss). The same can be said if using the FreqShow in the middle Gain position. I can hear it (and so does my piano major roommate) with my modded CD1000 and recabled FreQShow, though not my modded ESW9s. That being said, if you are listening at those levels you are deaf and that is with an improper load. However, this is something I never encountered with the Headsix and Pico, with the Pico being here to compare at 100hours (since been sent for the new owner). 


*[size=small]In Conclusion:[/size]* 

 It is an absolute buy, even a bargain. No, it is a true bargain. It is rare that you can say that in amplifiers and FAR MORE RARE to be able to say it in regards to anything Portable Audio related. Please don’t be discouraged by the sound out of the box because it isn’t good or at least anywhere near the capability as you can tell from above and comments made by members already. Honestly, I was not expecting to hear much change given the small capacitors ( I assume Tantalum?) If you have any questions pertaining to comparisons of other amps I have owned or tried, feel free to PM me.


----------



## davtse

wow, really comprehensive review there, Germania... any comments on the bass and treble extensions?


----------



## Gollie

Very nice review!

 Thanks for taking the time to document all the different changes you heard over the burn-in period.

 I have about 70hours on mine so far and I agree with your opinion. After about 60 hours the treble seems to be less over powering and slowly but surely, the sound is starting to even out from top to bottom.


----------



## flargosa

Germania, good review! What purpose are the breaks in between burn-in periods, is that part of the burn-in process?


----------



## -=Germania=-

It is just a document of the burn in period so that people don't get discouraged because it goes through quite a few changes, as with everything, it is not drastic by normal standards. However, it does happen and is something to consider. YMMV


----------



## Gollie

What gain setting were you using with your IEM?!


----------



## -=Germania=-

FreQShow IEM: Low Gain

 ATH-ESW9: Middle

 MDR-CD1000: Middle (High had floor noise)

 AT-701: High and it barely powered them


----------



## smart

Really nice review, Germania!! Now I need to have it on my hand more than anything else!


----------



## flargosa

Anybody have pics of the amp internals? The curiosity in me wants to see it, but don't have the right tools.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I have a hammer and a drill here...
 Will open it tonite...


----------



## Greeni

Hi
 Received the Mustang yesterday and charged it overnight. I found that the metal case of this little amp doesn't warm up the slightest bit. There are no signs of charging up at all. Is this normal ?


----------



## uberburger101

Nice review, Germania! Hmm, wonder if the P51 will dethrone my iQube + Atrio combination.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Greeni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi
 Received the Mustang yesterday and charged it overnight. I found that the metal case of this little amp doesn't warm up the slightest bit. There are no signs of charging up at all. Is this normal ?_

 

It doesn't get warm when charging. Stays nice and cool.


----------



## yihyan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uberburger101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review, Germania! Hmm, wonder if the P51 will dethrone my iQube + Atrio combination._

 

From my not burned in P51, Atrio doesn't goes well with it.....


----------



## uberburger101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yihyan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my not burned in P51, Atrio doesn't goes well with it....._

 

Hmm, then I'll hope it gets better with burn-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for the input.


----------



## Gberg

Germania, you say this amp reveals the flaws of 192kb/s recordings. Are you saying only ALAC sounds good, or can 320 be included in that as well.


----------



## 40760

I find my 320s to be listenable. 192s are obviously flawed with the Mustang.


----------



## BushGuy

So here is pic of my new portable rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Aluminum MacBook - Moon Blue Dragon cable - P51 Mustang - v.3 Darth.
 Yup, they combine surprisingly well together - good synergy here. For awhile I was going to sell these least of my Darths. No longer.


----------



## maxwinamp

My Xmas present came 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes, it is something for myself as a 'reward' for listening to all the crap in 2008.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This one is to give my ears some heaven when paired with the Westone UM-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 THE Ray Samuel Audio P-51 Mustang Headphone Amplifier































 Charging and burning in time!


----------



## cn11

SierraHotel01-
 Thanks to your comments, I've now entered into yet another deep rabbit hole of money in this insane portable audio world... the amp. Your comments prompted me to try the Mustang- it should be in transit any day now. I'll be using it with the Westone 3 too, and the Sony NWZ-A829 dap. I'm hoping for audio nirvana..... I always swore to myself I'd stay away from portable amps, because they seemed to defeat the idea of an uber-portable rig, but in seeing the pictures of how tiny this Mustang is, I couldn't resist this aspect of portable audio anymore. 

 Thanks SOOOO much for taking another chunk out of my wallet........


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mustang showed up via Fedex a day early. 

 (Fedex is great - didn't even have a tracking number, and when I called, they actually called the driver and told him to deliver it today - not wait until tomorrow as scheduled. Then they called me back and told me when the driver would arrive - within 5 minutes!)

 OK:
 I absolutely LOVE my Tomahawk. It was a sound epiphiny when I first plugged into it, and it's only gotten better since.

 I actually had myself prepared for an incremental only change in SQ. 

 Figured the "big pole in the tent" was my new Westone 3's. 

 New IEM's, especially ones as special as the 3's (sent to planet Earth from another galaxy) would be expected to influence the signal train SQ more than a slight amp upgrade, right?

 WRONG!

 I've been raving about the 3's for most of a week now, and couldn't imagine any significant SQ improvement, no matter what amp I plugged them into.

 Again, WRONG!

 With apologies & kudos to Ray Samuels (simultaneously) :

 Now, after a taste of the Mustang, listening through the Tomahawk is: "like kissing your sister".

 WOW!!!

 Thank you Ray; THANK YOU!

 Three-word summary: transparency, detail & punch.

 Listening to the Tomahawk now, is like going back to PK2's, after listening to the Westone 3's. It's that big a delta!

 Let's start at the bottom:
 low frequencies extend significantly lower than the Tomahawk - and they are MUCH tighter, less muddy (although the Tomahawk's bass never, ever sounded muddy to me, UNTIL I tasted the Mustang - now it does). Ray has made the bass passband as crisp and clear as a well rendered high frequency passband - it's like the bass has air, as well razor sharp attack, and everything else!

 Mids: it's like I was looking through a window - with the Tomahawk, and the window was covered by a thin layer of vaseline (blurry). 

 With the Mustang, it's like someone just Windexed the window! Crystal clear, yet as sweet as you can imagine.

 Highs: This portion of the frequency spectrum is like:
 listening to a band play from the alley outside (with the Toomahawk)
 versus, walking inside and sitting in the front row - getting ALL the "air" and detail you were missing outside.

 Entire spectrum - Attack: the Mustang is razor sharp, even compared to the Tomahawk, which I used to think was detailed. Not even close.

 Decay: as natural as I've ever heard.

 Synergy with W3's: uncanny!!!

 First musical "test vector" I ran through the Mustang was Ray's "Bella Sonus: Enamoured" album (my #1 go-to test of a new component)

 Sounds like I just walked into the room where they were playing.

 Holy freakin' CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!

 Yeah, it's that good (especially with the 3's)

 PS: know anyone who wants to buy a lovingly used 1,000 hour Tomahawk?

 I'm done now, for awhile._


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be using it with the Westone 3 too, and the Sony NWZ-A829 dap._

 

Think about getting a small Nano and you will be fine. 
 The Sony sounds awesome without amp.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think about getting a small Nano and you will be fine. 
 The Sony sounds awesome without amp._

 

Yeah, you're quite right about that. I am just hoping it improves the Sony even more.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I ordered a P-51 also and trying to pair it up with a nano. I'm trying to trim down my 'portable rig' which consists of a Zune 80 velco'd to an iqube. My only concern is that since I got a 16GB 4G nano instead of the older one just for the capacity, the size/shape of the nano won't work very well with the P-51. The P-51 also seems too small for an ipod classic since it is only half the footprint. What are people planning on doing when pairing up with a player?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Nano gen3.


----------



## smart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nano gen3._

 

x2 .... just placed an order for the refurbished one (8GB) from apple store. Then my Blackbird and iPod Classic will become a home based rig.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'm using my P51 as a singled end home amp lol. I feed it by the DacMagic, the ESW10JPN does sound awesome with this combo.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Yeah, I might just have to purchase an 8gb nano just for this rig....its only $99 at the apple store. I just wish it worked well with my 16GB black 4G nano instead....


----------



## Gollie

I velcro'd mine to the back of a 120 classic. I put a large majority of my lossless files on it and 4 movies which brought me to about 30gigs. Pulling songs on and off is something that I never really do. If I buy a nano with that intention, I know I would end up frustrated about the size and just leave it with 16g (probably more like 12g after the UI).

 On another note, does anyone have a plastic wrap type sticky material on the base of their Mustang? Mine is usually making contact with the desk surface (ipod on top). A clear sticky plastic to protect it would be nice.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SierraHotel01-
 Thanks to your comments, I've now entered into yet another deep rabbit hole of money in this insane portable audio world... the amp. Your comments prompted me to try the Mustang- it should be in transit any day now. I'll be using it with the Westone 3 too, and the Sony NWZ-A829 dap. I'm hoping for audio nirvana..... I always swore to myself I'd stay away from portable amps, because they seemed to defeat the idea of an uber-portable rig, but in seeing the pictures of how tiny this Mustang is, I couldn't resist this aspect of portable audio anymore. 

 Thanks SOOOO much for taking another chunk out of my wallet........_

 

cn11: 
 Sorry for your wallet, ...but I'm doing this for your own good. You'll see.
 (Enjoy the P-51)


----------



## uberburger101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I velcro'd mine to the back of a 120 classic. I put a large majority of my lossless files on it and 4 movies which brought me to about 30gigs. Pulling songs on and off is something that I never really do. If I buy a nano with that intention, I know I would end up frustrated about the size and just leave it with 16g (probably more like 12g after the UI)._

 

I'll probably velcro it to my 80GB 5.5G as well. I was intent on getting a 3G Nano to pair with this baby until I read that it doesn't go well with poorly encoded MP3s.

  Quote:


 On another note, does anyone have a plastic wrap type sticky material on the base of their Mustang? Mine is usually making contact with the desk surface (ipod on top). A clear sticky plastic to protect it would be nice. 
 

Well I plan to stick those 3M stickers on the corners, the same ones I have on my iQube currently.


----------



## RAQemUP

Surprised that no one has put this together with a Fuze. Though no true line out, the Fuze headphone out is comepletely flat and perfect for amping. Not to mention it is small like the 3g Nano and can be had with 8 GB capacity with a micro SDHC slot for even more music.

 An 8GB Fuze and an 8 GB micro SDHC would cost under $100 shipped nowadays.


----------



## Gollie

It's interesting how I would never buy a Apple PC because I know they are so overpriced compared to building. I know the iPod is over priced too but for some reason it is my default MP3 player. I bought one last week and did not even shop around for other manufacturers. 

 I'll have to dig and see if another one catches my eye.


----------



## yihyan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I velcro'd mine to the back of a 120 classic. I put a large majority of my lossless files on it and 4 movies which brought me to about 30gigs. Pulling songs on and off is something that I never really do. If I buy a nano with that intention, I know I would end up frustrated about the size and just leave it with 16g (probably more like 12g after the UI).

 On another note, does anyone have a plastic wrap type sticky material on the base of their Mustang? Mine is usually making contact with the desk surface (ipod on top). A clear sticky plastic to protect it would be nice._

 

The Mustang actually came together with 4 3M Bumpon


----------



## reinhard

What are people doing to bind together their Mustangs and Ipod Classics?
 I'm using a piece of velcro, but it still seems loose; are there rubber bands for this purpose? And what about cases? Anything that works well with the Mustang? I have that nice leather (cheap) belkin case, but there's no place to affix the Mustang...


----------



## RAQemUP

Some people use those Livestrong rubber wrist bracelets and the like. Another popular alternative would be to buy the velcro strips with tape on the back sides and stick the amp and DAP together like that.


----------



## PeterDLai

I wish Ray would make an updated Predator (with USB DAC) with the amp portion from the P-51. That would be sweet.


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RAQemUP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people use those Livestrong rubber wrist bracelets and the like. Another popular alternative would be to buy the velcro strips with tape on the back sides and stick the amp and DAP together like that._

 

I bought 2" x 2" velcro pads from Wal Mart, measured them appropriately and attached the player to the Mustang. I first tried sticking the velcro to my neoprene iPod case but it would not stay. I had to trace where I wanted the velcro to attach to the iPod, cut a hole in the case with a razor, then attach the velcro directly to the iPod's metal case.

 All that's left for me to do now is put on the rubber feet that came with the package.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish Ray would make an updated Predator (with USB DAC) with the amp portion from the P-51. That would be sweet._

 

Did you hear both? So you mean the P51 is better than the Pred?


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you hear both? So you mean the P51 is better than the Pred?_

 

Well no, I have not heard either. I know that it really comes down to hearing them first hand, but I am getting somewhat of an idea from Skylab's impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Forgive me if I I am mistaken or jumping to conclusions, but I _feel_ like I've read that this little amp is the best portable amp that Ray has put out.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well no, I have not heard either. I know that it really comes down to hearing them first hand, but I am getting somewhat of an idea from Skylab's impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Forgive me if I I am mistaken or jumping to conclusions, but I feel like I've read that this little amp is setting a new standard for portable amps._

 

That's the same thing I get from reading through everything about it. Which is why I made perhaps a snap choice to try one out myself. I can't wait to hear it..............


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Forgive me if I I am mistaken or jumping to conclusions, but I feel like I've read that this little amp is the best portable amp that Ray has put out._

 

No need to excuse. I really wish what you say is true.


----------



## Headphile808

Will a LOD w/ a XLO HT mini plug clear the volume knob on the Mustang?


----------



## -=Germania=-

IMO, P-51 is a large step up from the Predator. 

 Yes, I have heard both at the same time (back in August). It was also when I immediately decided that I need to own this sucker. It is the ONLY piece of audio equipment that I did not make, get second hand, or have gifted. To me, it was that good.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will a LOD w/ a XLO HT mini plug clear the volume knob on the Mustang?_

 

I doubt.


----------



## dadozen

Would the P-51 be a step up over the SR-71A?


----------



## -=Germania=-

FYI - Canare barely does and only if you are using a Neutrik for the other jack. 

 Sorry ALO Fans, your Jumbo Dock + recbled headphones don't really stand a chance. 

 I haven't tested the Switchcraft, but if they do it is the world's tightest squeeze.


----------



## reinhard

It's totally great, fellow Bruin!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI - Canare barely does and only if you are using a Neutrik for the other jack. 

 Sorry ALO Fans, your Jumbo Dock + recbled headphones don't really stand a chance. 

 I haven't tested the Switchcraft, but if they do it is the world's tightest squeeze._

 

OK germania, in regards to this. the XLO is smaller than the canare, not by much but it is smaller. and it also has flat chamfered edges. so are you saying that if the canare was used the neutrk would be best but the switchcraft MAY fit?? so if the XLO is smaller then the switchcraft should fit; just??


----------



## Lil' Knight

It can fit 2 Switchcrafts but will be very tight.


----------



## jamato8

I use Switchcraft for my IC's in the 1/8 and they fit fine on the 51.


----------



## Headphile808

I feel reassured now, thanks for all your help & quick responses.
 Headphile808


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, P-51 is a large step up from the Predator. 

 Yes, I have heard both at the same time (back in August). It was also when I immediately decided that I need to own this sucker. It is the ONLY piece of audio equipment that I did not make, get second hand, or have gifted. To me, it was that good._

 

It's a HUGE step up from a Tomahawk! 

 (a fine IEM amp in its own right)


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, P-51 is a large step up from the Predator._

 

x2, I have just received my Mustang today and I'm completely blown away by the quality of this amp. It's A LOT better than the Predator !


----------



## yihyan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2, I have just received my Mustang today and I'm completely blown away by the quality of this amp. It's A LOT better than the Predator ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

mind to share how it outdo predator? and i guess you are comparing a out-of-box Mustang with a fully burned in predator?


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a HUGE step up from a Tomahawk! 

 (a fine IEM amp in its own right)_

 

ooh boy am i glad somebody say this is a great iem amp! 


 yea #13 is here and this thing is tiny. i really didn't expect to be this small. i guess i got used to sr71a lately. by the way, how long did you guys charge the amp for the first time?


----------



## monsieurguzel

So I would like to share my setup to everybody. Black ipod nano 16GB > P-51 Mustang > Westone 3 . Setup works great and is very stealth looking. I'm just waiting for a good LOD to arrive in the mail. Also, the P-51 fits very nicely under the 4G Nano. Btw, this thing absolutely dwarfs my Zune80/iQube setup and sounds amazing!! Right out of the box I connected to ESW10, and it powered them beautifully and packed a lot more punch to the music than my iQube! I need to review the two amps thoroughly with my HD650 (Silver Dragon Recable), D5000 Markl Mod, ESW10jpn, Westone 3, and Shure SE530, once everything is burned in properly.

 Enjoy!!!


----------



## MarcusL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but I am getting somewhat of an idea from Skylab's impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, Skylab's review was really interesting. "The best RSA portable" is really a HUGE statement. But I'm just wondering if this is due to the P51's power. Take note that Skylab didn't use IEMs so perhaps the results were more on the power to handle the cans used for the review. Could it be that the results will vary if IEMs come into play?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Mine has just passed the second charge. Should be about over 100h burn-in.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine has just passed the second charge. Should be about over 100h burn-in._

 

Is it sweetening up on you?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it sweeting up on you?_

 

Haha, I'm not careful enough to write a burn-in diary. But it does improve, smoother and smoother. I still use it with my big cans though.
 Haven't got many chances to listen extensively cos my balanced amp steals all the time I got for music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 p/s did you get the stuff?


----------



## flargosa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarcusL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Skylab's review was really interesting. "The best RSA portable" is really a HUGE statement. But I'm just wondering if this is due to the P51's power. Take note that Skylab didn't use IEMs so perhaps the results were more on the power to handle the cans used for the review. Could it be that the results will vary if IEMs come into play?_

 

No, I don't think it's the power to drive cans. Actually, I have the opposite experience with my P-51(70 hrs burn-in). It drives my IEM(FreqShow, ER4S) very well with good power and definition throughout the entire spectrum. However, driving the HD580(300ohms) is a different experience. It has the clarity but sounds thin especially on the lower registers. Bass has the definition but lacks that thump most noticeable on desktop amps. Listening through my IEM's though, I got to agree with Skylab it sounds very good. Comparing it to my iQube it has more dynamics and bass thump plus more upper end energy, but same treble extension. I still give the mid neutrality to the iQube. Voices just sound more natural with the iQube. I feel like the P-51's vocal presentation has a tinny bit of a sharp edge to it. Granted I only have 70 hrs of burn-in, the amp may change more.


----------



## MarcusL

Good to know flargosa. Coz I'm really looking at this amp for iems.


 monsieurguzel, amazing looking setup there. The Nano / P51 / W3 is also my target setup. Maybe I'll throw the Cryo LOD in there.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Thanks a lot! I am currently looking into LODs right now and don't know which one to choose...so many choices!!! Any recommendations on a dock that would be good quality and not bulky while costing less than $100?


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot! I am currently looking into LODs right now and don't know which one to choose...so many choices!!! Any recommendations on a dock that would be good quality and not bulky while costing less than $100?_

 

Send a PM to Lil' Knight, for a custom LOD within your budget.


----------



## MarcusL

X2 on Lil Knight. If you click on his Flckr album link in his sig, you'll see his craftsmanship. I also recommend ALO Audio, one of our sponsors. There's a link on the left side of this page.


----------



## uberburger101

I just got my Mustang today, and I bought my ESW10JPN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will let them burn-in together, they seem to like each other.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I wish the ESW10jpn can be a little bit more comfortable so that I can enjoy it longer


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dadozen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the P-51 be a step up over the SR-71A?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 IMO, this is the real question that no one seems to be considering. It only makes sense to compare Ray's most current offerings to each other and see how they do when compared. 

 The Predator is a different kind of product, offering a DAC in the same enclosure, but my experience has been anyone looking for a portable amp only should look at other products in the RS line-up.


----------



## 40760

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uberburger101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my Mustang today, and I bought my ESW10JPN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will let them burn-in together, they seem to like each other._

 

And after both have been fully done, you'll have a hard time separating yourself from them. That's why I'm still up at this hour with my over 100hr Mustang and 3 day old esw10...


----------



## digihead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dadozen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the P-51 be a step up over the SR-71A?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting...I was jut pondering this exact question this morning. I just received my P-51. The size is just astonishing. It is also just starting on the burn in process so take that into consideration. The short answer is that I consider the SR-71A to be THE reference in portable sound. 5.5g iMod>ALO iMod gold/jumbo dock > SR-71A > UE11...I can't tell you how many times I have thought that portable sound cannot get any better than this. Very first listen to the P-51 it falls well short of the SR-71A. 

 I will of course give it the burn in time and try it with some other IEMs. Not to say it is not a great amp as I think it will be. However, I typically find that burn in slightly changes or refines a sound but the essence of the sound remains. So typically I find if I like something right out of the box then burn in will just further enhance that. If I don't enjoy something out of the box then burn in can help, however I typically find I don't end up with the product long term.

 I can say that the SR-71A sounded so good to me out of the box I didn't care one bit about burn in. I didn't want to be without the amp. The P-51, I have no remorse about being without it while it burns in...


----------



## jamato8

I think the 71A does a great job with the HD650's but I also think the P-51 does. I don't hear any of the thinness mentioned with the 650's and it powers my Ed. 9 with wonderful authority. My UM2 IEM's are quiet and sound about as good as I have heard them. I am finally getting some solid meaningful bass and clean highs (UM2). Many interesting amps coming down the pike.

 There is something to be said for the voltage swing of the 71A Blackbird.

 I am having withdrawals. I had to send the loaner Mustang back for the New York meet. I woke up this morning shaking and had a hard time putting my headphone on. I have ordered a 51 with black body and red end plates but its not here, . . . yet. . . I am having a hard time typing right now. I take care of people in ICU that go through drug and alcohol withdrawal but I am not sure it is the same. I tried a mock 51 by covering another amp with a box and telling myself that the headphone were hooked up to the 51 but I couldn't stop the shaking so I can only assume it didn't work. . . . . Oh my other amps are good but each has its own voice. . . . can't type any longer. . . .

 Just got a knock at the door. I live on the 3rd (top floor) of the complex and knew after hearing a low growl and then distant thuds of steps that it must be a delivery. A knock and I opened the door, startling the Fedex guy. Wow, you guys delivered it today and it wasn't scheduled until monday, you're great. Yeah I often get the packages out before due so I won't have such a busy Monday. Nice guy? UPS sure doesn't do that. 

 Still shaking, amp not broke in . . . Hey it's all good. :^)


----------



## glc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digihead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very first listen to the P-51 it falls well short of the SR-71A. 
_

 

I thought the same thing, but after 30-40 hours of burn in, the P51 sounds great. They're both different and I have no qualms about listening to either one.


----------



## tnmike1

A question on burn-in on the Mustang. I'm up to about 24 hours of burn-in. Should you let it "rest" for awhile between sessions? I know with the Xin Reference it is suggested to let it run for, say 12 hours, then turn it off to let the caps form. Are you doing this with the Mustang also?? Just curious


----------



## jamato8

I just let if run but turning it off from time to time does help the cap to form faster. I also think it has to do with the battery.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Why don't we get a list of high synegy headphones:

 Personally,
 Audio Technica ESW9 with or without mods
 Sony CD1000 w/ mods


 Others have mentioned
 FreqShow
 UE Customs
 Westone 3's
 ESW10's


----------



## jamato8

I could post them to the first page under a heading there. I like the Ultrasone 750's and the Edition 9 and Porta Pros for portable.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why don't we get a list of high synegy headphones:_

 

RSA Mustang + Ultrasone Edition 9 =


----------



## jamato8

My new needs some run in time. . . well we all know this. . . Hey its all good. 

 The thing I like about the Ed. 9 is not only do I enjoy the sound but I can dissect what an amp is doing faster than with any other headphone. They are so clean sounding that the 9's reveal everything.

 The red is darker than before, as on the Predator and I really like it. The black body with dark red face and rear plate is very classy looking.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yihyan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mind to share how it outdo predator? and i guess you are comparing a out-of-box Mustang with a fully burned in predator?_

 

Unfortunately I don't have the Predator with me anymore so it's impossible for me to do a real side by side comparison.

 I was so excited to try the amp yesterday that I decided to test it right away with my preferred song from Pink Floyd (Wish You Were). After 2 minutes I had tears in my eyes and from what I remember it was the first time that I had that kind of experience (eargasm?) with my Edition 9, the mids with this amp are simply out of this world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the amp so much that I have decided to use it temporarily as a desktop amp with my Marantz CD player.

 The Predator is also a very good amp but this one is clearly a step above for my tastes. 

 My Little Dot MKV Dual Mono will probably be on sale tomorrow.


----------



## -=Germania=-

use the money from the LD sale for an offboard DAC for the Marantz. 

 Speaking from experience, it gets MUCH better. If budget is an issue, Opus or modded Zhaolu....then the path to balanced happens very quickly.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why don't we get a list of high synegy headphones:

 Personally,
 Audio Technica ESW9 with or without mods
 Sony CD1000 w/ mods


 Others have mentioned
 FreqShow
 UE Customs
 Westone 3's
 ESW10's_

 

Agree with Jamato on the P-51 nicely powering the HD600's (high gain setting). Maybe a bit more punch, but these changed least of all, to my ears.

 P-51 even livened up SR325i's (more bass impact, and they seemed even more "immediate" and "live" than with the Tomahawk.

 They're not getting much press lately, but the SE530's definitely like being paired with the Mustang too - (tightened up the bass, and seemed to open / sweeten the mids & highs a bit)

 (a/b comparisons: 800+ hr. Tomahawk / 80 hr. Mustang)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agree with Jamato on the P-51 nicely powering the HD600's (high gain setting). Maybe a bit more punch, but these changed least of all, to my ears.

 P-51 even livened up SR325i's (more bass impact, and they seemed even more "immediate" and "live" than with the Tomahawk.

 They're not getting much press lately, but the SE530's definitely like being paired with the Mustang too - (tightened up the bass, and seemed to open / sweeten the mids & highs a bit)

 (a/b comparisons: 800+ hr. Tomahawk / 80 hr. Mustang)_

 

So is there any one of these or all of them that you would call synergistic with the 51?


----------



## max111

hmm...out of the box, my once not-so-impressive ath em700 suddenly seems more enjoyable when pair with mustang....more to follow....


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_use the money from the LD sale for an offboard DAC for the Marantz._

 

Thanks for the tip, I will probably replace my CD player with the Marantz SA8001 or SA8003 soon.


----------



## BushGuy

I used to have a pair of 325i and they would not suit P51 (ditto Klipsch Images, and 32ohm Darths), even with flats, IMO. The pleasant surprise for me is how P51 (mind you, I'm at 75 hours on P51) synergizes with v.3 Darths (those are at the bottom of my Darth pile and I WAS tempted to sell them). Mind you, I also block the open hole next left side yoke pivot. While I expected/hoped the pairing would work well - it is exceeding my prognostications. In terns of bass - it is very controlled, yet has a sense of even more profound depth. Mids and treble are brighter, cleaner and have a more lifelike SQ. Source is a Alum. MacBook with this amp.. For me, the P51 is a keeper......alongside a Xin Supermini (use Images here), and a Xin Reference (primarily use 32 ohm Darths here, and Grado RS-1 [sometimes], [X-Deep Darths stay in the house]).....still waiting on Pico amp/dac.....waiting.....


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is there any one of these or all of them that you would call synergistic with the 51?_

 

Jamato,

 Just did a quick refresh a/b (Tomahawk / Mustang) test on W3's, SE530's & SR325i's (my HD600's are at a friends). Used Bella Sonus (Sin Ti & Gypsy) as reference tracks.

 W3's synergy with Mustang is heart-stopping (stunning differences between plugging them into my Tomahawk vs. Mustang. They sound great through the Tomahawk, but they REALLY come "alive" with the Mustang.)

 SR325i's: noticeable improvement (fuller, with more sparkle / articulation), but nowhere near the improvement noted with the W3's. The 325i's (in comparison to the W3's) sound a bit "hollow" and much "less refined": a steak knife vs. a scalpel.

 SE530: this was a surprise. They changed the least in going from Tomahawk to Mustang. (Surprised me). The bass tightens up a bit, and I guess the overall image has a bit more "sparkle" but I had to go back & forth a few times to convince myself that the changes were 5x less than when comparing the W3's on the two amps. (Compared to the W3's they sound much less refined and less articulate).

 Conclusion: W3 + Mustang = super synergy!

 (I still spend a lot of time just shaking my head, staring off into space, when listening to the W3's through the Mustang)


----------



## Gberg

Jamato, do the UM2s match nicely with the Mustang?
 And does anyone have some AD900s they can test with it?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato, do the UM2s match nicely with the Mustang?
 And does anyone have some AD900s they can test with it?_

 

If I don't push the UM2 too far in with my triple cut down to 2, I get very good air and openness. Yes then they work very well together. I have not tried the UM2 and foams with the Mustang because I like the more open sound of the Shure type ear piece. 

 Westone 3 added to list. Are there any good buys on the Westone 3 anywhere? I read some of the reviews. There seems to be those who like them and those that do not. I wonder if it is about fit or preference or both? I like out of the head listening, after having fine speaker systems for years and enjoying live music.


----------



## AJan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Conclusion: W3 + Mustang = super synergy!_

 

Nice!!! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Lil' Knight

The more I listen to the combo P51+ESW10JPN, the more I grow my love for them. They do sound like heaven! Liquid mid and full of powerful bass which I always require in every cans I buy.
 I'm now thinking of recabling the ESW10JPN with better cable. The stock one is nice but really short.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more I listen to the combo P51+ESW10JPN, the more I grow my love for them. They do sound like heaven! Liquid mid and full of powerful bass which I always require in every cans I buy.
 I'm now thinking of recabling the ESW10JPN with better cable. The stock one is nice but really short._

 

The ESW10's look very interesting. I have heard pros and cons on the highs. How do they sound to you? Detail?


----------



## Lil' Knight

I think the best of the ESW10's is the mid. Listening to some vocal and instrument songs, I can feel the smoothness and reality. Detail is absolutely one of their strong points.
 Haven't tried them ampless (always use them with the P51) but I think the high is acceptable. I don't feel any fatigue when listening for a long time.
 What I feel unsatisfied is the comfort. My ears hurts after 2 hours wearing


----------



## jamato8

That's right, they rest on the ear rather than around it. Even the Ed. 9, that go around the ear, can be a tight fit and used to hurt my right ear after a while. 

 I wonder if they will feel better with time and they mold and conform?


----------



## moonsurf

Has anyone tried P-51 with Yuin Pk1?? I am thinking of ordering PK1 to use with P-51 when I have it. From what I read, I think the sonic characteristics of P-51 and PK1 will well match together. Or any other suggestion for a good pairing ear buds?? Thanks!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's right, they rest on the ear rather than around it. Even the Ed. 9, that go around the ear, can be a tight fit and used to hurt my right ear after a while. 

 I wonder if they will feel better with time and they mold and conform?_

 

Yes, that's it. I only wish the earcups are bigger so that they can cover all my ears.

 The earpads does become softer after some usage time. Hopefully it'll be more comfortable.

 @moonsurf: My OK2 sounds quite good with the P51 but not as impressive as the full-size cans. The PK1 might be a better choice. The P51 sounds amazing with high impedance cans.


----------



## peta10dye

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yihyan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my not burned in P51, Atrio doesn't goes well with it....._

 

Hi yihyan, as I've also got Atrios (M8s) just wondered of you'd found things improving as it burns-in. I'm actually loving it right out of the box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though it is different from my Xin Supermini3, soundstage seems narrower at the moment and has less bass, but overall sound seems cleaner, tighter, more controlled/refined and vocals are amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow, let us know


----------



## monsieurguzel

I have the P-51 and ESW10 combo, which I am currently in the process of burning in together. I have to admit that they are a match made in heaven....I'm starting to enjoy this setup almost as much as my home setup (WA6 SE > HD650), which means a lot considering that it is a portable setup. The mids are definitely great, but I also love the bass, which always feels smooth and not overly prominent. It might be because of the wood cups, but the bass has a really nice warm reverberation to it, especially on accoustic music, which I do not feel in any of my IEMs (SE530, Westone 3, Superfi 5pro). The highs are also great and do not get tiring at all!


----------



## wwyjoe

Fellow bros, any recommendations for a good line out cable from my iPhone 3G to Mustang / Westone 3 combo?

 Thanks!


----------



## MarcusL

Depends on your budget. I highly recommend Lil' Knight. Shoot him a PM. If you have cash to burn, ALO Audio makes high-end LODS as well.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarcusL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on your budget. I highly recommend Lil' Knight. Shoot him a PM. If you have cash to burn, ALO Audio makes high-end LODS as well._

 

Ditto.


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wwyjoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fellow bros, any recommendations for a good line out cable from my iPhone 3G to Mustang / Westone 3 combo?

 Thanks!_

 

I would recommend qusp. His work looks exceptional and he is very communicative.


----------



## wwyjoe

Thanks guys for the recommendations. Had looked at ALO as well & they cost a leg!


----------



## cn11

After about two days of listening, maybe 7 or 8 hours, here's what I'm hearing (keep in mind my rig: Sony NWZ-A829, Westone 3 or v.2 Atrio, Cardas mini to mini).... So far in the early stages the Mustang just adds subtle improvements to what the Sony does well already. I'm hearing a bit deeper extension and impact in the bass, more forward but natural and smooth mids, and a little more openness in the treble. Soundstage grew too though. It's as if the whole freq. range is opened up and a bit broadened. But in switching back to the Sony it's amazing how the little player holds its own. The sound of it is really fantastic.

 I know that it's early on...and I'm certain that the amp will open up, and these qualities will become gradually more magnified. The earphones that display the bigger improvement are the Atrios. I'm using the P51 on high gain to help it run in better, as well as to better drive the Atrios since they're pretty inefficient. But as run in continues, I'm sure I'm hearing bigger differences in the Atrios as compared to straight out of the Sony. The W3's display the same sort of improvements as well, but it's not quite as dramatic. They seem to like gain on medium... high is too much. 

 More to follow as it continues to run in. I'm also going to shop around for a higher quality mini cable. Oh, and I must say, the build quality is stunningly good. I love the positive feel and resistance to the volume knob, and the illuminated power mini toggle switch.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would recommend qusp. His work looks exceptional and he is very communicative._

 

x2 on that, as a matter of fact he's making one for me right now! Jena Labs 18AWG Cryo/XLO HT Mini Plug/Silver Dock Connector. It should match up quite well w/the P-51 Mustang (ordering soon). Looking at AT ATH-AD900s as a synergetic pairing for my home listening w/Mustang as well. 
 Good Luck & Happy Holidays
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2 on that, as a matter of fact he's making one for me right now! Jena Labs 18AWG Cryo/XLO HT Mini Plug/Silver Dock Connector. It should match up quite well w/the P-51 Mustang (ordering soon). Looking at AT ATH-AD900s as a synergestic pairing for my home listening w/Mustang as well. 
 Good Luck & Happy Holidays
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808_

 

He is making something like that for me too. I just need to decide on an amp and will probably go with the mustang. Happy Holidays to you too.


----------



## -=Germania=-

LilKnight, 

 Recable the esw10 with some 26awg stranded SPC in Teflon. I did mine in 6 strands of 30 awg stranded spc in black which is a big improvement IMO with the esw9 most noted in the treble which used to seam recessed. Much more weight to notes and cleaner. When combined with the mod I outlined it is in a different class and much closer to neutral, but distinctly a fun phone. Offer still stands for free materials


----------



## Lil' Knight

I tried to remove the earpads but they're quite hard. I really daren't use force lol. Still thinking which wire to use.


----------



## cn11

A couple pics.......


----------



## 2wheels4me

OK, the Mustang sounds like a great amp. Yesterday, as a test to test portable source options, I connected my W3s to a friend's new IPhone loaded with admittedly mostly not-well-recorded and/or low-bit-rate music, and, quite frankly, it sounded like poop, especially when a lot of instruments play at the same time. I bought my son an IPod Touch for Xmas that I will do more controlled testing on, including lossless rips. Anyhow, using the same IEMs out of my custom-built with great DAC CD player at home sounds very involving and accurate (for IEMs). Will an external amp such as this, along with a quality LOD, such as Lil'Knights, REALLY improve the quality of an IPod Touch's (which I am considering buying) sound, sufficiently to be considered HiFi or is it only just marginally better? I.E., if I don't like the reproduction out of the HP out, am I likely to not be satisfied P-51-amped as well? Is the problem the DAC or the analog amp/volume control? Sorry if elsewhere this subject has been beaten to death...


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'm using the P51 (at 230th hour burn-in) with the KSC35 recabled with UE cable, fed by the DacMagic. The sound is surprisingly good, deepest bass in the the portable stuffs I've ever heard. I'm glad that I sold the MS1 and keep the KSC35 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Can't wait to receive my PK1 and try with the P51. Not really satisfied with the OK3, but I think the PK1 would be far better.


----------



## 40760

Hi,

 For those who are concerned about protecting your Mustang and are not willing to put on the Bumpons, etc, I've just ordered some DIY custom skins from BestSkinsever to apply them onto the Mustang.


----------



## flargosa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the P51 (at 230th hour burn-in) with the KSC35 recabled with UE cable, fed by the DacMagic. The sound is surprisingly good, deepest bass in the the portable stuffs I've ever heard. I'm glad that I sold the MS1 and keep the KSC35 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Can't wait to receive my PK1 and try with the P51. Not really satisfied with the OK3, but I think the PK1 would be far better._

 

Have you noticed any changes past the 100th hour?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flargosa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you noticed any changes past the 100th hour?_

 

Not really much. Biggest change is in the treble. Less harsh than from out-of-the-box. Very pleasant to listen now.


----------



## cn11

That's the biggest thing I'm hearing now too... lessening of the treble harshness. Granted I only have about 30-40 hours on it so far, but going from the Sony alone, to the Sony/Mustang, I hear a softening of any harshness in the mids & treble. But bass is deeper and more impactful as well. The little Sony holds up quite well on its own. We're talking pretty subtle differences to this point.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Maybe my burn-in will stop after 10th charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On the 4th one...


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe my burn-in will stop after 10th charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On the 4th one..._

 

I'm still on my first.....


----------



## Lil' Knight

No need to rush 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What kind of load do you use when burn-in?
 I use my HD650 all the time.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The profitable team can't change the lady.

Is the blush classroom better than the winter?


----------



## lycos12

When I see the photo of P-51 next to AKG701, i'm wondering if it's good/strong enough to drive it or any other can with high impedance.

 Has anyone tried to use it for HD650/AKG701/Denon D2000/PK1?


----------



## DarKu

can someone post a picture with Mustang near a Cowon D2 or a Sansa Clip pleeeeaaaase ?
 thanks


----------



## davidw89

Undecided between this and Ibasso D3..how's the review stacking up?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lycos12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Has anyone tried to use it for HD650/AKG701/Denon D2000/PK1?_

 

Did you read all this thread?


----------



## wharfrat1

To answer the poster's question on the P-51 driving the K701, I actually used the K701 to burn in the P-51. I had the P-51 on the high gain setting, and it drove the K701's with no issue. I would say I had the volume set between 2-3 O'clock and it was plenty loud. Right around 12 O'clock, it was very listenable.

 Now, does it drive it as well as my home amps, no. But for a portable and something so small, it does a pretty incredible job.


----------



## davidw89

Freaking exchange rate at $1 USD ~ 0.70 AUD = 30% more expensive.


----------



## SierraHotel01

When I received my W3's and plugged them into my Tomahawk / ALO Mini Cryo Dock rig, I thought - wow - these WERE worth the money - definite improvement over the SE530's I had been using.

 After reading initial reviews, and having a profound admiration for Ray Samuels work and his various "house sounds", I ordered the Mustang early. However, after listening to the W3's on the Tomahawk, I had my doubts that portable sound could get a lot better.

 Then the Mustang arrived, and WOW! - the improvement / synergy was head & shoulders above the Tomahawk (still using the Mini Cryo LOD). 

 Then, I contacted Lil' Knight, and ordered one of his custom LOD's with silver returns.

 After extensive a/b testing, I retired the Mini Cryo Dock, in favor of Lil' Knight's LOD. 

 (the Cryo Dock was more "Grado" sounding, with great, in your face mids, and much warmth and punch. The Lil' Knight LOD, in contrast opened up the low and the high frequencies by a noticeable amount, but initially, sounded a little recessed on the mids, compared to the Cryo Dock. Then I remembered I had EQ'd the Cryo Docks forward mids down a tad. After I changed EQ settings to NONE - it was perfect, so I retired the Cryo Dock)

 Yesterday, I received an early Xmas present: ALo's new SXC 18G LOD.

 Immediately did some a/b comparisons with Lil Knight's Silver LOD (which I love).

 Well, I have to say that, even at $195, the SXC 18G LOD is a noticeable improvement (it should be at 2.5x the price). 

 Most glaring improvement is in the low frequencies - they are simply stunning on the SXC 18G. The rest of the frequency spectrum is even more lush and impactful with the SXC, but not by a whole lot.

 End Result: after the dust settled, I now have 2 rigs:

 3G Nano-->ALO SXC 18G LOD-->Mustang-->W3

 3G Nano-->Lil Knight LOD-->Tomahawk-->SE530
 (which will probably end up in my son's backpack)

 LOD ranking with Mustang / Tomahawk:

 1. ALO SXC 18G LOD
 2. Lil Knight (w/silver returns)
 3. ALO Mini Cryo Dock

 N.B. Both the ALO SXC and Lil Knight LODs are iPhone / iPod Touch / 4G Nano compatible. (the Cryo Dock isn't)


----------



## SierraHotel01

Has anybody here listened to a set of Grado GS1000's through the Mustang yet?

 RS1's?

 I'm dying to hear if they are synergistic.
 (have a suspicion they will be, since the Mustang outputs twice the current compared to the Tomahawk).

 Related question: which full size cans synergize best with the Mustang (especially considering High Gain = 11x)


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Related question: which full size cans synergize best with the Mustang (especially considering High Gain = 11x)_

 

Good question. I wonder how HD600s would be with the Mustang. I did not search the thread though.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question. I wonder how HD600s would be with the Mustang. I did not search the thread though._

 

The Mustang synergizes pretty well with HD600's, but not nearly as well as the W3, and even Grado SR325i's (to my ears, at least - ymmv). 

 Maybe I'm just done with the veiled Sennheiser signature, at least for awhile (except for monitoring PRS guitar/Line 6 Vetta II amp/Pro Tools recording/mixing).


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can someone post a picture with Mustang near a Cowon D2 or a Sansa Clip pleeeeaaaase ?
 thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

nobody?


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Related question: which full size cans synergize best with the Mustang (especially considering High Gain = 11x)_

 

So far I'm really IMPRESSED of the synergy with my Edition 9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can hear a lot more details in my music and the guitars sound exactly like on my old Grado RS-1 but with the added bass of the Edition 9.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far I'm really IMPRESSED of the synergy with my Edition 9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can hear a lot more details in my music and the guitars sound exactly like on my old Grado RS-1 but with the added bass of the Edition 9._

 

Oh - thanks a lot!

 You Would have to mention those expensive, wonderful, and now discontinued headphones, that I don't yet own. (although, it's great to hear they work so well with the P-51)

 You are evil personified!


----------



## jamato8

Pretty much all I use is the Edition 9. I would use them for work but it is hard to do that in ICU. :^)


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nobody? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Would you settle for a Sony NWZ-A829 ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Compliments of cn11.


----------



## soyama

Pardon me, but that Sony setup, isn't it supposed to be best if you pull the signal from the usbconnector?
 Or is the sony player strong enough to deliver a solid signal wich the amp again push to even better hights?
 I thought I read something about running and amp out of the headphone jack was a waste of money..


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soyama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pardon me, but that Sony setup, isn't it supposed to be best if you pull the signal from the usbconnector?
 Or is the sony player strong enough to deliver a solid signal wich the amp again push to even better hights?
 I thought I read something about running and amp out of the headphone jack was a waste of money.._

 

You're probably right. I got the mini to mini connector as a quick fix and am trying to figure out what else is a better way to go. I'm not aware of any cables that to from the Sony's usb port to a mini plug. It looks like a proprietary port. And yeah, the difference this way is pretty subtle, but it's there. The Sony sounds very good on its own.


----------



## soyama

Ay, I am happy with my sony s639 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If one could get the connectorschematics for the usbconnector, I bet one of the DIY guys could lend a hand with the most preferable layout for a LOD.
 We only need to know what pin does what in the usbconnector so..
 If sony even made it possible to play through the usb..


----------



## markh78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soyama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ay, I am happy with my sony s639 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If one could get the connectorschematics for the usbconnector, I bet one of the DIY guys could lend a hand with the most preferable layout for a LOD.
 We only need to know what pin does what in the usbconnector so..
 If sony even made it possible to play through the usb.._

 

Sorry it's in Japanese, but I've read that you can use this to make LOD for Walkmans.
DCC-NWC1

 If you can get a hand on one, just chop the cigarette socket charger off and put a mini-plug.
http://www.h-navi.net/bbs/img/11744772590287.jpg
http://www.h-navi.net/bbs/img/11744772590288.jpg


----------



## soyama

btw, any norwegians(oslo) which has this amplifier, or another of the rsa amps? :O


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markh78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry it's in Japanese, but I've read that you can use this to make LOD for Walkmans.
DCC-NWC1

 If you can get a hand on one, just chop the cigarette socket charger off and put a mini-plug.
http://www.h-navi.net/bbs/img/11744772590287.jpg
http://www.h-navi.net/bbs/img/11744772590288.jpg_

 

Do you know where we can buy the adapter?


----------



## soyama

a quick google, and it seems amazon sells them atleast
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Amazon.com: Sony DCC-NWC1 Car Connecting Cable for the NWZ-A800 and NWZ-S600 Series Sony Walkman Video MP3 Player (Black): Electronics


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soyama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a quick google, and it seems amazon sells them atleast
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Amazon.com: Sony DCC-NWC1 Car Connecting Cable for the NWZ-A800 and NWZ-S600 Series Sony Walkman Video MP3 Player (Black): Electronics_

 


 Wow, awesome! Thanks. 

 Lil' Knight- So if someone were to puchase this adapter and send it to you with some funds, could you work your magic and make a LOD out of this?

 (because I have NO diy / electrical skills myself!)


----------



## soyama

Hopefully it works as a lod, and not just a charger, I see sony has another model like it.. if you check Sony Style USA | Sony VAIO® Computers | Sony Consumer Electronics they sell both.
 One is for charging, other is for charging and audio
 but its over the fmnet.. dunno wich would be best, the fmpart would be removed anyways.
 I belive both would work, but


----------



## jamato8

So did anyone hear the 51 at the recent NY meet??


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soyama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a quick google, and it seems amazon sells them atleast
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Amazon.com: Sony DCC-NWC1 Car Connecting Cable for the NWZ-A800 and NWZ-S600 Series Sony Walkman Video MP3 Player (Black): Electronics_

 

Woohoo, 34$ for a trial cable is not really cheap. I read the description of the cable but they only mention about the charger. Not really sure if there's any audio there.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, awesome! Thanks. 

 Lil' Knight- So if someone were to puchase this adapter and send it to you with some funds, could you work your magic and make a LOD out of this?

 (because I have NO diy / electrical skills myself!)_

 

Would be great, but again, not really sure it will work


----------



## Greeni

My Mustang quite suddenly ran out of power today. I was playing music for break-in and the next minute the red light was gone. It is now re-charging and everything seems normal, but anyone notice similar occurence ? Also, I did not found the playing time per charge-up to be that long as claimed, but still it is more than satisfactory.

 The Mustang is my first headphone amp, therefore I have not compared it to any other after-the-market headamp yet. I do find it has some decent drive though. Judging from the positive reviews, it appears the SQ is comparable with other full size headamp as well. I would like to understand, what exactly do I gain by going from the Mustang to premium full size headamp like those offered by Rudistor ?

 Thx


----------



## wwyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *palestofwhite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay a gentle reminder to those who can't tell if the amp is charging, etc. I believe Jamato had touched on this before but I'm going to put it up by request of some. Here goes:


 The power indication light will only turn on when the switch is ON.

 So this is how you tell how much charge your amp is holding by the switch light:

 Blinking/ Pulsating Red - Very Low Charge (You should charge it now)

 Faint Red - Half or Low Charge.

 Bright Red - Full to High Charge.


 You can turn On the switch every now and then to monitor the charge. Currently mine has run 2 days after the 1st charge and is still going well._

 

Thanks for this. Sorry if this is a stupid question - do i need to turn the switch to 'ON' in order to charge or i can just leave it at the 'OFF' position with the charger adapter plugged on.


----------



## max111

u can charge it either way - on (if u are listening while charging the amp) or off


----------



## wwyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *max111* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_u can charge it either way - on (if u are listening while charging the amp) or off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 cool....thanks bro


----------



## davidw89

I really want one of these due to its size + SQ but after shipping and custome fee then conversion to USD will cost about $700 AUD which isn't cheap = (. And no one has a second hand one for sale either. Dang


----------



## Clok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really want one of these due to its size + SQ but after shipping and custome fee then conversion to USD will cost about $700 AUD which isn't cheap = (. And no one has a second hand one for sale either. Dang_

 

Ray ships them at 40$ value


----------



## paulismydog

hi....my sansa clip doesn't have LOD.....plan on getting a different player in the future but will i still be able to enjoy the rsa p-51 somewhat in the mean time?.....will it make any difference?.....thanks, bob


----------



## wharfrat1

My guess is yes, it will definitely make a difference. All good amps do, even out of the headphone jack. I used my P-51 out of my Ipod hp jack and it sounded pretty good. Now, it's no where close to using my cryo dock (hopefully will be upgraded to a 18g sxc soon) out of the line out, but still solid. As opposed to going directly out of your hp jack with no amp, it will be a nice upgrade. 

 I'm not familiar with the Sansa, but this is a very detailed amp. It really works best with lossless files.


----------



## Sideman7

Mine just showed up today. Wow it's small. I've seen the photos, but it doesn't really sink in until it's in front of you! I gave it a quick go, and so far, the sound is murky at best (it's noticeably muddier than the hp jack alone) , I guess it really needs to be burned in first. The instructions say to charge overnight for the first charge, Can I let it burn in during this charge, or should I wait till tomorrow to start?


----------



## jamato8

Sure use music while charging, that is fine.


----------



## Sideman7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure use music while charging, that is fine._

 

Cool, thanks....


----------



## davidw89

I thought you're meant to use pink noise?


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you're meant to use pink noise?_

 

IMO, I like to use the XLO Test & Burn-In Disc. Tracks #7-9 Repeated, which are two frequency sweeps & a pink noise track. I really do'nt think there is a set standard for burn-in. Everyone uses different methods, just go w/the one that you prefer.
 Good Luck & Happy Holidays
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sideman7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine just showed up today. Wow it's small. I've seen the photos, but it doesn't really sink in until it's in front of you! I gave it a quick go, and so far, the sound is murky at best (it's noticeably muddier than the hp jack alone) , I guess it really needs to be burned in first. The instructions say to charge overnight for the first charge, Can I let it burn in during this charge, or should I wait till tomorrow to start?_

 

What are you using it with? Westones and IPod w/LOD?


----------



## Sideman7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you using it with? Westones and IPod w/LOD?_

 

I am still waiting on the LOD, so I have it sitting in a universal dock and using the line out to the amp (and yes, ipod classic and W3's). I tried the headphone jack as well, and I am not hearing a big difference there, so the LOD may still help.

 When I get home from work, I'll hook it up to my computer and Firewire 410. That will make it easy for me to switch between the amp and the headphone jack on the 410 for a better comparison. In the mean time I have pink noise running through it...


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you're meant to use pink noise?_

 

I suspect Jamato8 was referring to the fact that it is OK to play music while charging (the P-51 will still charge, but at a slower rate).

 Separate question (and one I find interesting):
 is there any difference for burn-in of amps & headphones, between using pink noise vs. real music.

 I've always used real music for burn-in, assuming the transients would "exercise" the drivers / armatures more completely than the more continuous sounding pink noise generators I've come across). For amps (electrically) - I have no idea whether it makes a difference.

 It just 'seems like it might', and, why not burn-in your equipment the same way that you'll end up using it, day-to-day?


----------



## jamato8

I have used both methods and frankly I prefer using real music. Why the difference? I don't know maybe the ebb and flow of real music.


----------



## Sideman7

Well, I got home from my gig tonight and took a listen to see if anything has changed over the last 8 hours or so... It's pretty wild to hear how this is evolving! The sound has filled out dramatically, bass has gotten noticeably deeper, and there even seems to be more on the high end as well. It still has a way to clean up and balance out, but I can see where this is going and it's good. Source signal is still cleaner and has better separation, but I am getting much more umph and energy behind the sound out of the amp at the same volume. When I switch back to the headphone jack of my iPod it feels a bit lifeless by comparison. 

 I've got it hooked up to my computer now through a M-Audio Firewire 410 which seems to give me a cleaner signal, and even though the headphone jacks on the unit have plenty of power, the sound has way more character through the P-51. I can't wait until it's fully burned in! This is my first headphone amp since I am used to listening on my home system most of the time, but this definitely is getting my portable rig up to par!


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sideman7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It's pretty wild to hear how this is evolving! The sound has filled out dramatically, bass has gotten noticeably deeper, and there even seems to be more on the high end as well._

 

I keep wondering how much of this burn-in effect is real, in the hardware itself. 

 And, how much is "user-brain burn-in".

 Maybe it doesn't really matter. (I suspect it's both)


----------



## jamato8

If you have a baseline to compare to, as in other amps that are well used, then you can note the difference. I don't go just by what I am hearing on a single amp, as it is burning in, because my ears and mind, brain do vary. I compare to these other amps to distinguish if there is any real change and by this I can do a more honest evaluation rather than rely solely on what I think is changing. 

 For me, I hear changes on new amps as everything forms. Some of course are more extreme than others.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'm trying my 300h P51 with the Edition 9. Sounds damn good!


----------



## 2wheels4me

OK, I couldn't take the wanting any longer; thanks to SierraHotel01's praise egging me on. Placed order for 'Stang black w/ red ends and gold (brass?) knob, and also placed order to ALO for cryo 18G SXC. Hopefully with this combo there will be no necessary upgrades for awhile. I am still interested in LilKnights LOD, it looks so cool and also probably sounds great. Mebbe later. 

 Anyway, the ordered combo should be sweet with W3s and Touch.


----------



## Sideman7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I keep wondering how much of this burn-in effect is real, in the hardware itself. 

 And, how much is "user-brain burn-in".

 Maybe it doesn't really matter. (I suspect it's both)_

 

I'm sure our ears do adjust as things go along, but there is no question here that things are changing quite a bit (I'm surprised it's as extreme as it is). That's a good thing, because quite honestly, when I first received it, it sounded awful. It was a clear step backwards from without it. It's been running since I got it yesterday, and the sound has tightened up quite a bit, although the frequency balance could use some smoothing out (it's a bit "lumpy"). I've also noticed while I was listening yesterday and last night, that certain frequencies would either be over accentuated or swallowed up for a while (causing the "lumpiness"). This was easily verified by swapping my headphones from the P-51 to the hp jack on my Firewire 410. I just checked right now, and the high frequencies are a bit muted compared to the source (big difference in ride cymbal overtones). There were times last night when it was the exact opposite and I was hearing overtones I didn't even know were there...

 Anyway, it's kind of cool to hear the changes and I look forward to the final result!. It's an impressive little matchbox!


----------



## jamato8

I have a unit with the black body and gold/brass volume control and it is pure class. I love the dark red Ray has gone to. Against the black it is pure cool.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm trying my 300h P51 with the Edition 9. Sounds damn good!_

 

Indeed


----------



## Spareribs

Wow, i really want the Mustang! Ray is cool though. Gotta love the guy.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *acidtripwow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What LOD are people using with this amp? I have an ALO Cryo and the 1/8" connector is rubbing up against the volume knob._

 

Are others having an issue with ALO fit? I'm getting the SXC 18G. Should I be concerned? I mean being close on something so tiny is fine, but rubbing would not be good.


----------



## Lil' Knight

As I said before, any LOD using Switchcraft will have little trouble with the Mustang. It's so tiny that the plug will become huge.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said before, any LOD using Switchcraft will have little trouble with the Mustang. It's so tiny that the plug will become huge._

 

Thanks, LilKnight. I missed that detail. I assume from reading your earlier post and rereading this one that it WILL have a little trouble with the knob as opposed to having little (as in no) trouble.


----------



## Lil' Knight

It will work fine though, just a little difficult to adjust the volume


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will work fine though, just a little difficult to adjust the volume 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Agreed, the LOD you made me fits but barely. I don't think it is an issue causing the Switchcraft to not be usable with the Mustang in anyway.


----------



## jamato8

LODLevel Of Detail
 LODLord of Destruction (Diablo 2 game expansion)
 LODLimit Of Detection
 LODLine Of Duty
 LODLegion Of Doom
 LODLegacy of Darkness (game)
 LODLegend of Dragoon (Sony role playing game)
 LODLength of Day
 LODLaid-Off Dad
 LODLine of Dance (counter-clockwise movement)
 LODLetter of Destruction
 LODLevel of Detection
 LODLoss on Drying (water and volatile substances lost from a sample when dried)
 LODLoss-On-Drying
 LODLive or Die (gaming clan)
 LODLoss Of Data
 LoDLords of Darkness (gaming)
 LODLine Of Departure
 LODLog of Odds (genetic linkage score)
 LODLength On Deck
 LODLords of Death (gaming clan)
 LODLarge Organic Debris
 LODLines of Development
 LODLetter Of Direction
 LODLoad on Demand
 LODLand of Devastation (BBS role-playing game)
 LODLow of Day (stock markets)
 LODLaparoscopic Ovarian Drilling
 LODlateral overflow drain
 LODLaunch on Demand
 LODLetter Of Delegation
 LODLeader-On-Duty (Target stores employee title)
 LODLetter of Demand (of Payment)
 LODLimit Of Disturbance
 LODLaunch Operations Directorate
 LODLine Out Dock
 LODLëtzebuerger Online Dictionnaire
 LODLoss of Down (football)
 LODLeadership and Organizational Development
 LODLeading-One Detector
 LODLease Outline Drawings
 LODList of Drawings
 LODLife Over Death (band)
 LODLocally Optimum Detector
 LODLow Overhead Driver
 LODLandlord Outline Drawing
 LODLast Opportunity Doctrine
 LODLease Option Document
 LODLetter of Diagnosis
 LODLinear Optimal Distribution
 LODLines of Drift
 LODLoad File


----------



## tnmike1

Using ALO SXC 18g and Apuresound Ety4 mod with Switchcraft plug. No problems with Mustang but somewhat of a problemwith Reference since volume knob is in the middle of the two connectors. Still, everything fits and works perfectly


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using ALO SXC 18g and Apuresound Ety4 mod with Switchcraft plug. No problems with Mustang but somewhat of a problem with Reference since volume knob is in the middle of the two connectors. Still, everything fits and works perfectly_

 

Thanks, then I will probably stick with it.


----------



## jamato8

I use Switchcraft and my own devised mini and they all fit fine. I don't have any real problem with adjusting the volume. It isn't as if the connector rubs the volume control as it is 2mm or so away. 

 I am not sure why ALO saves the gold plated Switchcraft for the 18g like it is a more expensive mini. The cost difference is about one dollar and I would prefer to never have nickel in the audio path and nickel is used in the dollar cheaper mini of Switchcraft. I use the gold and copper mini, when I use Switchcraft, there is no reason not to.






*P-51 with iRiver H140 and my hyper pure silver mini to mini IC*






*Different IC's I have made for portable use. Switchcraft minis and my own converted minis with hyper pure dead soft silver and teflon tubing*I don't know who took this image but they could have used more depth of field! oh it was me. :^)


----------



## SierraHotel01

Just put a 4G Nano in front of my Mustang / SXC 18G / W3's.
 (retired 3G Nano)

 It's definitely worth it!!

 The new Cirrus Logic DAC renders a significantly different, and better sound signature (imho), especially in this rig, to this one set of ears.

 Posted impressions on Portable Source Gear forum.

 (think SXC 18G vs. Cryo Dock; but not quite as much of a jump)


----------



## leftnose

Could you post a pic of your new set-up? I'd like to see how the 4G stacks with the Mustang.

 Thanks


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leftnose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you post a pic of your new set-up? I'd like to see how the 4G stacks with the Mustang.

 Thanks_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leftnose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you post a pic of your new set-up? I'd like to see how the 4G stacks with the Mustang.

 Thanks_

 

Sorry for the crummy image quality.
 (extenuating circumstances)


----------



## SierraHotel01

Attachment 11785


----------



## tnmike1

That's how mine looks. Just added the ALO SXC cable and WOW what great sound. Still burning in the Mustang with about 400 hrs on it. Can't wait 'til it's totally ripened


----------



## callmevil

the SXC have a significantly better SQ over the jumbo?


----------



## leftnose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Attachment 11785_

 

Thanks. 

 Your pic is actually doubly helpful. I wasn't aware that the 4G nano goes into a 'sleep' screen when playing like the Classic.


----------



## darkninja67

Thanks for the Nano/Stang pic. That is an incredibly small amp. I cannot wait to get mine.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *callmevil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the SXC have a significantly better SQ over the jumbo?_

 

Yeah. Had both and can easily justify the price. Aso--and most importantly=-=the new SXC cable lays a lot flatter than the Jumbo. So everything fits togehter nicely. Plust you've got more "real estate" on the face of the amp. Ken said the Jumbo was great but people had problems sometimes with it being too large for some of the smaller players like the Nano


----------



## SierraHotel01

Attachment 11845

 fwiw: Found that if I "thread" the W3 plug through the SXC LOD "loop", it:

 1. is out of the way (don't have to rotate it out of the way to turn P-51 power on/off)

 2. "locks" the LOD 1/8" stereo miniplug into Mustang front panel w/friction

 3. also seems to provide more stability to the Nano/Mustang velcro connection


----------



## jamato8

Here is my mini to 1/4 adapter with dead soft silver and teflon tubing. The 1/4 is from Radio Shack, the best I have found. It is cheap plastic on the outside but copper contacts and no, NO magnetic materials used. At 3.99 for 2 it is a best deal.


----------



## badbad2000

Finally my Mustang done burning for 2 times charge. Like it with K702 but my K702 not burn in 100hr yet. 

 I not sure if anyone encounter this, during the time you play the song, when you turn the volume knob, it have some disturbing sound sometime. Is this normal?


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *badbad2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally my Mustang done burning for 2 times charge. Like it with K702 but my K702 not burn in 100hr yet. 

 I not sure if anyone encounter this, during the time you play the song, when you turn the volume knob, it have some disturbing sound sometime. Is this normal?_

 

I've heard that little noise with my Hornet, Tomahawk and now the Mustang. Doesn't bother me as I know it's only when I change volume--which is rare as I preset the volume for the dedicated IEM I use--but probably a trait of Samuels' amps Unless someone knows something different


----------



## badbad2000

thanks for the info. at least that is normal for the product. But sometime a bit annoying when you are adjusting the volume. and not everytime will encounter this.


----------



## radiohead7

i have been reading various posts about several different IEMs. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what would be the best IEM for the Mustang amp. I heard the triple fi 10 is great but the stick out to far and are uncomfortable. The shure 530's does not have equilized soundstage proformance that the triple fi 10 has but are more comfortable. The new westone 3 are not living up to the expectations, several posts state problems with them. I have not heard much about the ie8 steinheiser. There are other brands of iem's out there but which would compliment the mustang the best for the money.


----------



## melomaniac

one of my neighbors is getting a mustang, and we'll get together to compare it with my tomahawk and pico, with a few different LOD and PDP combinations. might post our impressions, but only if we feel there's anything worth sharing... I for one look forward to an excuse to play with the gear!


----------



## SierraHotel01

I was just talking to my nephew, who is a research engineer at Bose 
 (Yeah, I know - buy other sound equipment).
 (btw - the iPod sound dock & their 1-2-3 system are each tuned to sound best with no EQ).

 Anyway, I was singing the praises of Ray's work, and when I mentioned the Predator, and the audiophile community's desire to access the digital bit stream out of the iPod itself, he told me that there is a Swiss company doing just that, and some of their stuff does the same thing.

 He said you can buy Apple Authentication chips (several "levels", ranging from $0.75 ea. - to - $6 ea.); and that, if you pay for one of the higher level "auth-chip versions" - it gives you access to the digital bit stream, right out of the iPod's lineout!

 Just wondering if anyone else here was aware of that. ??

 (sounds like Ray could get the right "auth-chip" from Apple, and then build a true remote DAC-Amp combo).

 Just wanted to pass that along.

 Now, I'm dreaming of a Mustang with onboard DAC, directly processing digital output from the iPod.


 PS: My nephew also said Bose extensively tested the Wolfson DACs (used in 3G Nano) against the newer Cirrus Logic DACs (used in the 4G Nano), and found the Wolfson to be very "noisy" by comparison.

 PPS: Finally, he told me that when using subtractive EQ (to avoid clipping), that you should set the highest slider bar to no more than -3 db max. He said the reason is that, with a higher than -3 db setting, you can get clipping when two adjacent frequency passbands both have a lot of energy, and it gets integrated over time during playback). I'll test that on my Nano and report back.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Just tried the -3 db max rule with a few songs for comparison:

 -Wendy Stark: Animus / Anima - has always had sub bass clipping issues on my rig (I chalked it up to a lousy recording).

 Well, when I tried the -3 db max approach, it cleaned up most of the low frequency clipping.

 And Bella Sonus - it cleaned these tracks up a bit too (to my ears, but it's a more subtle effect)

 I think there might be something to this -3 db thing!


----------



## Fido2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I was singing the praises of Ray's work, and when I mentioned the Predator, and the audiophile community's desire to access the digital bit stream out of the iPod itself, he told me that there is a Swiss company doing just that, and some of their stuff does the same thing.

 He said you can buy Apple Authentication chips (several "levels", ranging from $0.75 ea. - to - $6 ea.); and that, if you pay for one of the higher level "auth-chip versions" - it gives you access to the digital bit stream, right out of the iPod's lineout!


 Now, I'm dreaming of a Mustang with onboard DAC, directly processing digital output from the iPod._

 

This sounds VERY interesting!!

* PS* has anyone else compared the Mustang with the Voyager yet? It seems Skylab's biggest knock on the Voyager is that it is in a cheesy, overpriced plastic case but he gave the Voyager good grades on sonics. I am more interested in the sonic performance and would like more opinions if possible. Can or _will_ someone send me a Mustang to compare to my Voyager?..hehehhee


----------



## radiohead7

I am having trouble deciding what IEMs to buy for my new mustang. I heard mixed reviews for all. The TF10s do not fit right and not enough bass but are clear and equilized, the shures have less equailization and more bass, the westone 3 seem to have alot of bass and i am hearing that people are encountering problems with the mids. Which one of these will work best with my mustang i want to buy one.


----------



## radiohead7

I was also wonder is the mustang would help boost the bass on the ue tf10


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *radiohead7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having trouble deciding what IEMs to buy for my new mustang. I heard mixed reviews for all. The TF10s do not fit right and not enough bass but are clear and equilized, the shures have less equailization and more bass, the westone 3 seem to have alot of bass and i am hearing that people are encountering problems with the mids. Which one of these will work best with my mustang i want to buy one._

 

Ray Samuels has stated earlier that he has only used Westone 3s w/his & highly recommends the combo. FYI, he also uses a ALO 18AWG SXC Cryo LOD.
 SierraHotel01 uses same setup & loves it as well. Have only heard good things about the synergy, as I am leaning towards this setup as well (see sig).
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just talking to my nephew, who is a research engineer at Bose 
 (Yeah, I know - buy other sound equipment).
 (btw - the iPod sound dock & their 1-2-3 system are each tuned to sound best with no EQ).

 Anyway, I was singing the praises of Ray's work, and when I mentioned the Predator, and the audiophile community's desire to access the digital bit stream out of the iPod itself, he told me that there is a Swiss company doing just that, and some of their stuff does the same thing.

 He said you can buy Apple Authentication chips (several "levels", ranging from $0.75 ea. - to - $6 ea.); and that, if you pay for one of the higher level "auth-chip versions" - it gives you access to the digital bit stream, right out of the iPod's lineout!

 Just wondering if anyone else here was aware of that. ??

 (sounds like Ray could get the right "auth-chip" from Apple, and then build a true remote DAC-Amp combo).

 Just wanted to pass that along.

 Now, I'm dreaming of a Mustang with onboard DAC, directly processing digital output from the iPod.


 PS: My nephew also said Bose extensively tested the Wolfson DACs (used in 3G Nano) against the newer Cirrus Logic DACs (used in the 4G Nano), and found the Wolfson to be very "noisy" by comparison.

 PPS: Finally, he told me that when using subtractive EQ (to avoid clipping), that you should set the highest slider bar to no more than -3 db max. He said the reason is that, with a higher than -3 db setting, you can get clipping when two adjacent frequency passbands both have a lot of energy, and it gets integrated over time during playback). I'll test that on my Nano and report back._

 

Sounds like a really good dream to me!

 Speaking of dreams, my dream-amp (red-ended, black with gold knobbed P-51) is being shipped today, according to Ray and his cousin. Yay! Hope it is a nice step-up over the HP out on the Touch 2G.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a really good dream to me!

 Speaking of dreams, my dream-amp (red-ended, black with gold knobbed P-51) is being shipped today, according to Ray and his cousin. Yay! Hope it is a nice step-up over the HP out on the Touch 2G._

 

You're in for a very pleasant surprise.
 It will be a huge step up from the headphone out!
 Enjoy.

 What LOD are you going to use?

 Please share your impressions (& pics?) when your Mustang arrives.


----------



## Lil' Knight

It's great to see more and more people enjoying this tiny amp. It's doing a very nice job driving all my SE phones (ESW10JPN,PK1,C1000,KSC35/75).


----------



## HK_sends

72 hours of burn-in and counting...

 -HK sends


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're in for a very pleasant surprise.
 It will be a huge step up from the headphone out!
 Enjoy.

 What LOD are you going to use?

 Please share your impressions (& pics?) when your Mustang arrives._

 

ALO SXC Cryo 18G. Impressions will be forthcoming hopefully in two or three days.

 Does everyone think that the 'Stang sounds rough prior to 60 hours of burn-in?


----------



## wharfrat1

I just sold my Voyager after I got my P-51 burned in. The Voyager is a great amp, and with the contour switch, it can provide huge bass. It still offers great detail as well.

 With that said, the P-51 is quite an improvement over the Voyager. The Voyager sounds laid back compared to the Mustang. The Mustang provides better detail and punch throughout the entire sound spectrum. As an example, the Bass is deeper on the Voyager (even without the contour on), but it is not nearly as detailed and doesn't provide the same impact that the P-51 does. To my ears, the P-51 is just so much more involving than the Voyager. 

 You really can't go wrong with either, but with the prices just about being the same, I'd pick the P-51 all day, every day.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fido2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This sounds VERY interesting!!

*PS* has anyone else compared the Mustang with the Voyager yet? It seems Skylab's biggest knock on the Voyager is that it is in a cheesy, overpriced plastic case but he gave the Voyager good grades on sonics. I am more interested in the sonic performance and would like more opinions if possible. Can or will someone send me a Mustang to compare to my Voyager?..hehehhee_


----------



## ericwatson

I just recieved my P-51 today and right out of the box it sounded really good. I am letting it burn in right now, but I think I all ready prefer the sound of the P-51 to my hornet-M and I am listening thru my senn HD650.
Attachment 12013

Attachment 12009

Attachment 12007

Attachment 12015

Attachment 12011


----------



## Kon-Masti

Would it be worth pairing this up with the Denon AH-D7000? Or would I be better off looking elsewhere for a suitable amp? I was hoping I would kill 2 birds with 1 stone by using this Amp for the westone 3's and the Denons. Any advice would be massively appreciated.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Don't bother pairing it up with the D7000, its won't power them properly. I have a pair of Markl D5000 and they work pretty well at low volume, but the moment you crank up the volume moderately loud, the noise gets quite distorted and some clipping happens on higher frequencies. A good home amp will do them a lot more justice, especially since you invested in D7000s, which need very refined equipment (esp. the source) to properly shine. Honestly, I don't understand why some buy such fancy headphones when if you they will be fed by portable amps. I think that when fed from an ipod / p-51, the differences between the D2000, D5000, and D7000 aren't very significant to justify the investment. If the source / amp are of quality, then you will notice the improvements in the higher end Denon cans.


----------



## Kon-Masti

I see. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it. I'll look into a good home amp to pair it with. But, is it not appropriate to use a good home amp with an ipod full of lossless files for D7000?


----------



## Jerry Wang

would p-51 do better with HD650 or K701 ? I am thinking to buy a K701 but not so sure if it can be driven properly. or any other full-size recommendations?


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't bother pairing it up with the D7000, its won't power them properly. I have a pair of Markl D5000 and they work pretty well at low volume, but the moment you crank up the volume moderately loud, the noise gets quite distorted and some clipping happens on higher frequencies. A good home amp will do them a lot more justice, especially since you invested in D7000s, which need very refined equipment (esp. the source) to properly shine. Honestly, I don't understand why some buy such fancy headphones when if you they will be fed by portable amps. I think that when fed from an ipod / p-51, the differences between the D2000, D5000, and D7000 aren't very significant to justify the investment. If the source / amp are of quality, then you will notice the improvements in the higher end Denon cans._

 

Could you please state the impedance of those phones, I have no info regarding that.
 Thanks.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## monsieurguzel

The impedance of the Denon headphones is only 25 Ohms, but i feel like they need a lot of current to perform properly. Oddly enough, my pair of HD650 (300 ohms) will not start to clip/distort when the volume is turned up very high on the P51, but the D5000 does. At first I thought it was an issue with my pair of D5000, but after connecting it to my Woo 6 SE amp, it didn't clip on higher volumes. If you have any insight into what might be causing this, I would really appreciate. Thanks.

 On a side note Ray, I really want to congratulate you for making such an amazing little amp that sounds incredible for such a reasonable cost. I have mine hooked up to a 4G nano through LOD with Audio Technica ESW10JPN, and it is pure bliss listening to this setup when I am at work all day. Such great music makes my days so much more enjoyable and it amazes me how portable this setup really is! I see myself using this a whole lot more than my clunky iPod classic/iQube setup which in retrospect feels like a heavy brick.


----------



## mrarroyo

Ray, the Denon's mentioned have an impedance of 25 ohms. Your amps have absolutely no problem driving them, I know because I have a D5000 and your SR71 w/ a gain of 5 or 6 (can't remember which) drives them beautifully using a 160 Gb iPod Classic as a source w/ an ALO SXC Cryo line out.

 The problem is that there are a bunch of individuals who speak w/o taking the time to actually test the gear. If they did they would know that portable amps like the ones you make (SR71, SR71A, etc) can indeed drive very well cans like the Denon D5000.

 Best regards my friend, and have a great 2009.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The impedance of the Denon headphones is only 25 Ohms, but i feel like they need a lot of current to perform properly. Oddly enough, my pair of HD650 (300 ohms) will not start to clip/distort when the volume is turned up very high on the P51, but the D5000 does. At first I thought it was an issue with my pair of D5000, but after connecting it to my Woo 6 SE amp, it didn't clip on higher volumes. If you have any insight into what might be causing this, I would really appreciate. Thanks.

 On a side note Ray, I really want to congratulate you for making such an amazing little amp that sounds incredible for such a reasonable cost. I have mine hooked up to a 4G nano through LOD with Audio Technica ESW10JPN, and it is pure bliss listening to this setup when I am at work all day. Such great music makes my days so much more enjoyable and it amazes me how portable this setup really is! I see myself using this a whole lot more than my clunky iPod classic/iQube setup which in retrospect feels like a heavy brick._

 

Solid state amps, specially the portables, that have no current capability & voltage swing will suffer from driving the high impedance phones & end up clipping.
 That means the lower is the impedance of the phones the easier is driving them using solid state amp. All Grados, Sony's JVS's, Denon, & Audio Tech. are low impedance that make them easy to drive if the portable amp has current capability as well. P-51, Mustang has 250ma per side of drive capability.
 This is just an info & not an add to P-51.
 Thanks.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## HK_sends

And despite some valiant efforts to convince me otherwise, I am very Happy with the way they drive my K702, D2000, and Grado 325i cans. I switch the gain when I need to and ride the volume control. So far, I have not had any clipping issues with over 100 hours burn-in time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Excellent amp, Ray!

 -HK sends


----------



## Kleinkiller

GREETING !!!!!!!!
 I just got my Green/Gold combo Mustang today !!!!! now I am stuck at work so will need to go home tonight to get it Burnnnnnn 

 How many Hr. do you guys recommond to burn the Mustang in ???

 Hopefully will get my SE530 mid to a whole new level.. *_*

 Am thinking to get either D5000 OR HD650 Cans...
 All the friendly exprets out there, any suggestion ??
 Am looking for a sounds that close to my SE530 but not too much highs roll-off. And I CANNOT stand siblance...

 MANY THANKS and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

 J


----------



## SierraHotel01

I've been a fan of Lowepro Apex Cases for awhile (used Apex 30 with Tomahawk/SE530 rig - I think Jamato8 uses them too).

 So, that's where I started looking for a good case for:

 4G Nano-->SXC 18G-->Mustang-->Westone 3 rig

 Here it is: Lowepro Apex PV - $25 at Adorama.com
Attachment 12059
Attachment 12055
Attachment 12061
 ...or, maybe you prefer Blue:
Attachment 12063
Attachment 12065

 PS: not the tightest fit (width-wise) - plenty of room for IEMs. 
 Apex PV's 6" length needed to accommodate 4G Nano + LOD @ 5.5 in.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, I like that case. It works great with my H140 iRivers and the Predator, P-51 or any other like size amp. The P-51 and the lossless on my H140 is just great and with the case I don't even have to worry about them falling out or getting damaged.


----------



## Kleinkiller

Hi Sierra..
 That's a smart way to put everything in yet gives protect. Any belt loop on those lil bag ??

 I noticed that your Shure IEM wire were abit different then mine. (The twist like the Westone 3)
 You must got the newer version cuz' mine had design flaw which gave stress on the wire and the outter jacket will very easy to break. 

 J


----------



## Fido2

That man's got a nice bag on him there...heehehe
 I gots to get me one.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kleinkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Sierra..
 That's a smart way to put everything in yet gives protect. Any belt loop on those lil bag ??

 I noticed that your Shure IEM wire were abit different then mine. (The twist like the Westone 3)
 You must got the newer version cuz' mine had design flaw which gave stress on the wire and the outter jacket will very easy to break. 

 J_

 

The belt loop is very convenient. It has velcro not only to fasten it back to the bag but then another flap of velcro that fastens to the loop that is secured to the bag so you have a double secure closer that won't open unless you open both velcro fasteners. The belt loop is also wide and a few thicknesses of material with a flexible but stiff inner layer so it is substantial as well.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I like that case. It works great with my H140 iRivers and the Predator, P-51 or any other like size amp. The P-51 and the lossless on my H140 is just great and with the case I don't even have to worry about them falling out or getting damaged._

 


 Hey Jamato..can you get your H140 and the SR71a in there at the same time?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jamato..can you get your H140 and the SR71a in there at the same time?_

 

Well I will try right now but that will be a tight squeeze, hold on. . . 

 Not the 140 bu the H120 works:

 I didn't think it would fit. . . it is the ultimate tight fit but work as long as you have a nice small IC like I make with right angles. Yes it works.

 Ok, with the feet taken off of the 71A, and the H140, it is tiiiight but can work. The 71 would not work just the 71A.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I will try right now but that will be a tight squeeze, hold on. . . 

 Not the 140 bu the H120 works:

 I didn't think it would fit. . . it is the ultimate tight fit but work as long as you have a nice small IC like I make with right angles. Yes it works.

 Ok, with the feet taken off of the 71A, and the H140, it is tiiiight but can work. The 71 would not work just the 71A._

 


 Got it: H140 with P-51...OK, H140 with SR71a...find another case*. Thanks!

 * I like a little looseness so I can get at the buttons.


----------



## Kleinkiller

To me,, I still like just using rubber band to bundle the P-51 at the back of the i-pod and put it in my jeans pocket.
 only bad thing is everytime when I sit, I need to pull that thing out of my butt. *_*

 Sorry mate, I just the guy who hates "bags"..


----------



## Headphile808

Since were on the subject: 
 For Christmas, I got a Timbuk2 Metro Tote w/2Way accessories pouch for my portable setup. Very small, perfect for daily essentials (iPod/Amp/HPs/IEMS/Shades/CellPhone/Keys). 
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808


----------



## jamato8

Nice, it looks like you can get just what you need in it and it should hold up well. 

 Kleinkiller: I don't think I would want to borrow your rig after you pulling it out of your butt. It's all your buddy. :^)


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kleinkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GREETING !!!!!!!!
 I just got my Green/Gold combo Mustang today !!!!! now I am stuck at work so will need to go home tonight to get it Burnnnnnn 

 How many Hr. do you guys recommond to burn the Mustang in ???

 Hopefully will get my SE530 mid to a whole new level.. *_*

 Am thinking to get either D5000 OR HD650 Cans...
 All the friendly exprets out there, any suggestion ??
 Am looking for a sounds that close to my SE530 but not too much highs roll-off. And I CANNOT stand siblance...

 MANY THANKS and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

 J_

 

Impressions and pics once you get it set up. Which LOD are you using? I got my LOD today and my Mustang should be here Friday or so. Cannot wait. Happy New Year dude.


----------



## Rico67

Happy New year !
 i have seen it 's about 50 hours for the Mustang burning time.
 Ray preconise 100 hours.
 Mine sound really great at 70 hours.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Impressions and pics once you get it set up. Which LOD are you using? I got my LOD today and my Mustang should be here Friday or so. Cannot wait. Happy New Year dude._

 

How did your LOD arrive UPS/FedEx/USPS? Still waiting on mine. Funds for P-51 Mustang were taken out of my account yesterday, so possibly coming soon. Very anxious. Will give my impressions and post pics as well after recieving. 
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## PhilS

Just got mine this afternoon. First impression: can't believe how small it is. Presumably high WAF, since your spouse won't think something that small could cost too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dumb question: I'm recharging the battery per the instructions. I assume the power does not have to be switched on to recharge, but how do you know when the battery is fully recharged? Do you just recharge overnight the first time and for three hours thereafter and just assume it's fully charged after that time?


----------



## Rico67

After 3 hours, you can be sure it's totaly charge.
 You can listen it in the same time.
 charge is ok for 50 hours !
 same as in the Predator.
 In the first times make some complete cycles full charge and discharge, like that all 'll be perfectely burn.


----------



## Lil' Knight

If everything goes smoothly, I might have the Predator,SR71A and Pico to compare sides by sides next week. Should be a difficult task


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kleinkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Sierra..
 That's a smart way to put everything in yet gives protect. Any belt loop on those lil bag ??

 I noticed that your Shure IEM wire were abit different then mine. (The twist like the Westone 3)
 You must got the newer version cuz' mine had design flaw which gave stress on the wire and the outter jacket will very easy to break. J_

 

Kleinkiller:

 Jamato is right - double velcro belt loop on back of case. Very secure, but with its size, I think this is a "hand carry case" - it also comes with a shoulder strap.

Attachment 12087

Attachment 12089

 PS: Kleinkiller, those are Westone 3's in the pic (inside Apex case w/Mustang), not SE530's. The cable looks like a Westone twisted pair - because it is.
 (the Shure Olive Tips might have thrown you off)

 Happy listening.
 Happy New Year!


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did your LOD arrive UPS/FedEx/USPS? Still waiting on mine. Funds for P-51 Mustang were taken out of my account yesterday, so possibly coming soon. Very anxious. Will give my impressions and post pics as well after recieving. 
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

My LOD was in the mail so it came via USPS. 
 My Mustang order got lost in the shuffle. I PMed Ray and he took care of me. 
 I cannot wait to try my iPhone, Nano and Touch with the amp. I also have an X5 with FLAC and a Samsung YP-T9 player. 

 It should look pretty snazzy too, at least the iPhone set up will.

 EDIT: anyone know a site that has fancy rubber band things to hold the amp and DAP together?? My Nano is in a case so it will not harm the amp nor itself so I want something to just hold them in place.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Got mine today... Good god what a teeny beauty! First impressions are very, very good: running while hooked up to Touch 2G (populated with ALAC only) via ALO SXC Cryo 16G and listening through W3s, the clarity at volume and tightness of bass is a very nice improvement over HP out. It is a bigger, more effortless sound, but I could of course just be smitten, so more experimentation and burn-in is needed. Running all-day/all-night burn-in; more later...


----------



## Headphile808

I recieved My P-51 Mustang today! Clear/White w/Black Knob #228. Ordered Fri. Dec.26, thats only 3-4 business days from Skokie,IL to Honolulu,HI. Very impressive, first time ordering from Ray and the Man sure knows how to make a first impression. Was'nt expecting amp for another week or so. I'm not ready, Still waiting on my LOD, so just charging for now. Managed to take a blurry pic w/my phone in the midst of all the excitement. It's micro-sized footprint just had me scratching my head astonished. Just an amazing little work of art. Will give impressions and post some real shots in the portable rig gallery, shortly after putting everything together. Thank You Very Much Ray & the RSA family. 

 Happy New Year Head-Fiers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Aloha
 Headphile808


----------



## Signal2Noise

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If everything goes smoothly, I might have the Predator,SR71A and Pico to compare sides by sides next week. Should be a difficult task 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Wow! Whatever you don't like could you send to me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HNY!


----------



## davidw89

Guys where did you buy those case/pouches to carry your mp3 player + amp?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just buy a small camera pouch and you'll be fine/


----------



## PhilS

I've got about 15 hours of burn-in on mine now, and one of the things that's striking to me is how much this unit changes after some burn-in. I'd be surprised if anybody thought it was any good after listening to it right out of the box or even after a couple of hours. It sounded harsh and tinny to me. But after a few hours of burn-in, say around 5 or 6 to me, the sound began to change significantly. It will be interesting to see how it continues to develop after additional burn-in time.

 I'm listening to the amp now through my PX-100's, and keep putting them on and off every 20 minutes or so as I running around doing other things. In other words, I can't resist going back to see how good it sounds with various music I have running through it -- and it sounds very good at this point and is getting better. It really seems to excel on vocals, but it sounds good on everything I've thrown at it so far. I'll have to give it a run with my custom IEM's at some point, but they're more of an effort to put them on and off, so that's why I've just been using the PX-100's. 

 I think Ray has got himself a real winner with this amp. More to come later.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys where did you buy those case/pouches to carry your mp3 player + amp?_

 

Fry's Electronics usually has a large selection of small digital camera / camcorder bags.

 Online, I use Adorama.com (camera / photo supply house). They have an extensive inventory too.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys where did you buy those case/pouches to carry your mp3 player + amp?_

 

I got mine at REI. They are very well made and meant for hiking etc., so they will last.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Alright, twenty hours of burn-in under the belt. A/B comparing to Touch 2G's headphone out, there is just no contest. With the P-51, the soundstage is wider with vocals now hanging more in the air. Bass is far more damped. By comparison, the ability to go up in volume is amazingly different, with instruments remaining separate and relatively clean. Attack on piano notes and drum strikes is now much more dynamic and involving. A slight and I hope temporary complaint is that the high treble is a bit sharp on certain notes with the combo, very unlike the HP out which seems the opposite. I am hopeful that this solid-statey sound eases a tad with more burn-in as it often does with both cables and transistor-based amps.

 That aside, the Touch HP out sounds constricted both dynamically and spatially. I had thought, for such a little device and used with the very good W3s, that the iPod sounded pretty good, and reasonably involving. Well, let's just say that I probably will not listen ANY MORE WITHOUT RSA's little guy attached; it is that good. As a matter of fact, the combo even fits in my jeans pocket! I just walked two miles in happiness...

 More later...


----------



## jamato8

The highs should be very nice and smooth out to a natural presentation. If still there after some time it could be, might be, the source. 

 It is interesting reading about everyones perception of the changes heard as time creeps on.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My LOD was in the mail so it came via USPS. 
 My Mustang order got lost in the shuffle. I PMed Ray and he took care of me. 
 I cannot wait to try my iPhone, Nano and Touch with the amp. I also have an X5 with FLAC and a Samsung YP-T9 player. 

 It should look pretty snazzy too, at least the iPhone set up will.

 EDIT: anyone know a site that has fancy rubber band things to hold the amp and DAP together?? My Nano is in a case so it will not harm the amp nor itself so I want something to just hold them in place._

 

darkninja67, thanks for the info on the LOD. Still waiting on mine. Got my Mustang yesterday, and it would defeat the purpose if I used the HP out. It's New Years, so no USPS delivery today hopefully tommorow. For those rubber bracelets, I've been looking to order some wristbandconnection.com/24hourwristbands.com/rubberbracelets.com. I'm planning on getting some customized, for that finishing touch on my portable rig.
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If everything goes smoothly, I might have the Predator,SR71A and Pico to compare sides by sides next week. Should be a difficult task 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I haven't forgotten. I hope to have it off to you this weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 -HK sends


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't forgotten. I hope to have it off to you this weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 -HK sends_

 

Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My ESW10JPN's are on their way back from the loaner, really miss them


----------



## glc

Headphile808,

 The amp does not car what the source is for burning in. You will lose the opportunity to give yourself a reference if you intend to compare different stages of burn in though.


----------



## kjcarey

Hello to everyone. I'm new to this forum and I've appreciated all of your feedback on various issues. So far, this has been the best source of information on all things audio on the net.

 So I've had the impressions made (UE5c), spoken to Ray (Mustang), and I'm preparing to convert everything to lossless. A couple questions for the crowd:

 1) I have yet to see someone comment on the synergy between a pair of UE phones and this amp... I also notice most of you have a wide variety of phones, but no UE. I'm new to the game and haven't listened to anything other than UE5 Pro and UE10, both universal and both very uncomfortable. I called them and they worked to get me a pair of custom UE5 for a reasonable price. Having the experience that you all have, should I look elsewhere for better sounding phones with more depth in the lower-region or should this amp paired with lossless help? 

 2) How do you all encode your music? With what? I'm about to undergo the daunting task of re-ripping everything and I plan to make this the last time. .wav? .aiff? wma or apl lossless? Universality and quality is critical. 

 Thanks in advance for your help and I will let you know my opinion once they arrive! 

 --
 k


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kjcarey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you all encode your music? With what? I'm about to undergo the daunting task of re-ripping everything and I plan to make this the last time. .wav? .aiff? wma or apl lossless? Universality and quality is critical. 

 Thanks in advance for your help and I will let you know my opinion once they arrive! 

 --
 k_

 

I can't speak to the IEM synergy issue because I don't own any.

 As far as lossless goes, I have encoded to both Apple Lossless and FLAC and have been satisfied with both. It primarily depends on your player. An iPod will play Apple Lossless but not WMA Lossless or FLAC. A "Plays for Sure" player like the Zune will support WMA Lossless but probably not the others. I specifically went looking for a player that would support FLAC and found the Cowon O2 and Archos 7 IMT. They don't support Apple Lossless but I think I could play WMA Lossless if I tried.

 I have heard some arguments that "this" lossless codec is better than "that" one, but nothing definitive. So, I guess it is back to "It all depends on your player".

 Hope this helps,
 -HK sends


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kjcarey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 1) I have yet to see someone comment on the synergy between a pair of UE phones and this amp... I also notice most of you have a wide variety of phones, but no UE. I'm new to the game and haven't listened to anything other than UE5 Pro and UE10, both universal and both very uncomfortable. I called them and they worked to get me a pair of custom UE5 for a reasonable price. Having the experience that you all have, should I look elsewhere for better sounding phones with more depth in the lower-region or should this amp paired with lossless help? 

 2) How do you all encode your music? With what? I'm about to undergo the daunting task of re-ripping everything and I plan to make this the last time. .wav? .aiff? wma or apl lossless? Universality and quality is critical. 
_

 

I've been listening intermittently since this morning with my UE-5c's as I burn in the P-51. I've listened to a variety of music, and many selections that I am intimately familiar with. I am really pleased with how the UE-5c's sound with this amp, as I will probably keep the UE-5c's for some time. Frankly, the UE-5c's sound as good as I have ever heard them. 

 The only think I cannot comment on is whether some of the newer universal IEM's, such as the Westnone 3 or the Senn IE8 would give more bass than the UE. I don't consider the UE-5c's to be bass heavy; and perhaps they lack a little bit in the lower region, but I don't have any other IEM's to compare them with. The P-51 provides as much bass as I've ever heard them with, so any deficiency in the lower region is not due to the P-51, it is due to the UE-5c. I should note, however, that my UE's are about 5-6 years old now, and I have some feeling that my ear shape has changed a little and I'm not getting the bass I used to get out of them

 As to encoding, I encode with apple lossless, as I want the source to be the best possible source, and I don't need the space created by compressing. (A 32g touch provides me with enough space.) With the P-51 and good IEM's, I would recommend lossless. 

 EDIT: I have also used FLAC (with another player) and apple lossless with my ipod, and I don't think there is a difference (to my ears, that is).


----------



## HK_sends

Of course you could rip the CD in .wav format and then encode for whatever player you intend to use later. If you have the room on your hard drives (I have 6 Terabytes actual space)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Well 6 Tb's will do it. You must do something with it other than use it for music, though I could be wrong. I use most of my space up with my professional photography and with the file size getting bigger and bigger for my full format digital stuff, I am not crazy about how much storage I need. Prices on storage falls but it is offset with the need for the great space to begin with.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well 6 Tb's will do it. You must do something with it other than use it for music, though I could be wrong. I use most of my space up with my professional photography and with the file size getting bigger and bigger for my full format digital stuff, I am not crazy about how much storage I need. Prices on storage falls but it is offset with the need for the great space to begin with._

 

I work with video from time to time. Also my system is my home theater so I do back up my DVDs and play them from the hard drive(s).
 As storage prices fell, my storage capacity went up. I have no doubt that I will eventually fill it though, with all the new movies coming available as digital downloads (legit ones, that is)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_darkninja67, thanks for the info on the LOD. Still waiting on mine. Got my Mustang yesterday, and it would defeat the purpose if I used the HP out. It's New Years, so no USPS delivery today hopefully tommorow. For those rubber bracelets, I've been looking to order some wristbandconnection.com/24hourwristbands.com/rubberbracelets.com. I'm planning on getting some customized, for that finishing touch on my portable rig.
 Good Luck & Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

Thanks dude.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Initial handheld long-exposure pic of the Mustang et al in action:


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Initial handheld long-exposure pic of the Mustang et al in action:




_

 

Sweet setup!

 -HK sends


----------



## smart

The Black/Red Mustang should be really cool with iPod U2 !!!


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kjcarey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 1) I have yet to see someone comment on the synergy between a pair of UE phones and this amp... I also notice most of you have a wide variety of phones, but no UE. I'm new to the game and haven't listened to anything other than UE5 Pro and UE10, both universal and both very uncomfortable. I called them and they worked to get me a pair of custom UE5 for a reasonable price. Having the experience that you all have, should I look elsewhere for better sounding phones with more depth in the lower-region or should this amp paired with lossless help? 

 2) How do you all encode your music? With what? I'm about to undergo the daunting task of re-ripping everything and I plan to make this the last time. .wav? .aiff? wma or apl lossless? Universality and quality is critical. 

 Thanks in advance for your help and I will let you know my opinion once they arrive! 

 --
 k_

 

I use my P-51 with Apple Lossless files (120 classic) to UE Triple Fi 10's. I think the quality across the whole sound spectrum is quite nice. The detail is excellent, the bass is punchy and accurate, there is great air and a wide soundstage. I use the setup daily at the office and I have made one 3.5 hour flight. On the flight, the perfect seal gave me the a great listening environment. With the music on, the airplane noise was nonexistent.

 Although Ray does not test his amps with UE phones, I think they have great synergy with the P-51. I have read here that the fit is difficult for some. For me, I use the med. sized rubber tips and get a good vacuum. Seal is everything with IEM. As with everything else, you can read others impressions but you almost have to try the setup yourself to form your own opinion. Most of the $300+ IEM will offer good sound quality. Whether the sound quality is _great_ depends on how well you are able to seal the IEM in your ears combined with your music style.

 Hope this answers your question.


----------



## thread

FYI, Ray owns a UE10 that I presume he makes use of when testing the sound of his amps.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kjcarey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 1) I have yet to see someone comment on the synergy between a pair of UE phones and this amp... --
 k_

 


 I have also had UE5c customs for 5 or 6 years and have generally found them to synergize well with RSA amps (particularly the Hornet M). My set has fallen out of my graces slightly, but I still enjoy them when I absolutely need isolation. Otherwise I reach for my PK-1's.

 I haven't heard the P-51 yet, but it sounds like it may have a little less low end "beef" than the SR71a. This would be good IMO, as I think that the UE's sound good with the SR71a...except the combination of the warm bassy UE5c with the additional low end fullness of the SR71a is a bit much.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'm trying the Westone3 with the P51 @ low gain, fed by the DacMagic. I've just tried a song but first impression is not really positive. The W3 is so dark and warm, very bassy. I don't think I'm hearing the mid and treble now. Maybe my ears will grow familiar with the W3 later.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The W3 is so dark and warm, very bassy. I don't think I'm hearing the mid and treble now._

 

Weird ? Have you tried them with the Shure Olives ?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird ? Have you tried them with the Shure Olives ?_

 

I don't have the Shure olives right now. I'm using the tri-flange.
 Maybe I'll swap all the foams to find the best for me. 
 It has even darker sound than my HD650.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have the Shure olives right now. I'm using the tri-flange.
 Maybe I'll swap all the foams to find the best for me. 
 It has even darker sound than my HD650._

 

Lil'K - as mentioned elsewhere the W3s are very sensitive to canal placement. At least with the large Complys, a very small outward pull after complete insertion brings the mids and treble to where they ought to be without losing the bass level that you do want. Too far out and the bass is gone, of course. Small biases in insertion angle also affect the balance noticeably. They are fussy, but properly tipped, inserted and adjusted, they can be sublime. For me, ALL of the non-foam tips were thin sounding. So too were the small Complys due to poor sealing. The slims were very close to being good as they were never dark, despite how far in or out of the canal they were positioned, but never quite sealed enough to get bass weight. At first I thought the large Complys were too muffled to use, then I read in a post about the marginal nudge-out trick, and voila, balance and bass weight! The fussiness does make me curious about Olives or going the custom UM56 route to get proper sealing and fit every time. However, if those 56's are all wrong...

 With them set right, I have been enjoying mine for hours, driven off the 'Stang on low as well. It now has 47 hours of burn-in and sounding good. As mentioned earlier, the only chink in the armor so far is a bit of heat in the very high end that is already better than it was yesterday. Overall, the improvement over the Touch alone is remarkable.


----------



## darkninja67

This sucks. At work until 11PM and my Mustang is at home waiting for me.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use my P-51 with Apple Lossless files (120 classic) to UE Triple Fi 10's. I think the quality across the whole sound spectrum is quite nice. The detail is excellent, the bass is punchy and accurate, there is great air and a wide soundstage. I use the setup daily at the office and I have made one 3.5 hour flight. On the flight, the perfect seal gave me the a great listening environment. With the music on, the airplane noise was nonexistent.

 Although Ray does not test his amps with UE phones, I think they have great synergy with the P-51. I have read here that the fit is difficult for some. For me, I use the med. sized rubber tips and get a good vacuum. Seal is everything with IEM. As with everything else, you can read others impressions but you almost have to try the setup yourself to form your own opinion. Most of the $300+ IEM will offer good sound quality. Whether the sound quality is great depends on how well you are able to seal the IEM in your ears combined with your music style.

 Hope this answers your question._

 

All the portables including Mustang & SR-71A were tested using UE10, UE11, ES2 by Westone & Weston3, the prototype. I did also listen to them via SE530.
 Ray Samuels.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This sucks. At work until 11PM and my Mustang is at home waiting for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

It should be burning itself in while it waits for you!


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be burning itself in while it waits for you!_

 

it should be but it arrived right after I left for work. 5 more hours!!!


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it should be but it arrived right after I left for work. 5 more hours!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hold on dude, just a little longer. Congrats on recieving your Mustang! I've had mine since wednesday, still waiting on LOD though. At least you get to listen to yours this weekend (jealous). Post your initial impressions, after you charge it up and burn-in for a bit.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## -=Germania=-

Hey guys.

 Just got back from my Florida, Cozumel, costa rica, and panama two week vacation.

 The mustang was used daily while sun bathing and every night. I did not have to recharge it once. In fact the battery is still going strong. 

 Yeah my mustang has well over 300 hours and looks great. Only the knob has a scratch and it has been stored in the purse. 

 Hope you guys enjoyed your holiday presents to yourself.


----------



## darkninja67

Well just got in. Opened the package and was really surprised at the size of the amp. Pics on the internet do not really tell the story. I had an issue with the LOD fitting my iPods while they are in their cases. Not too happy with that. I had to cut my $30 iSkin to get it to fit and I believe qusp used a smaller than normal connector.

 So while my camera is charging, I have been using it with my old reliable iAudio X5 out of the headphone jack with a Black Dragon mini to mini. Absolutely awesome sounding. The files are all FLAC and Diana Krall sounds like she is in the room. Very good localization of instruments. Midrange is great. No sibilance at all with the Shures.

 low noise floor it seems although I heard some hissing while using the iPods earlier and I never heard that before. (yeah I know the SE530 is supposed to hiss but I never heard it).

 Playing Down's NOLA now. Great detail and space. Guitars sound really really nice. Good edge to them. Bass is tight. I want to get up and thrash right now. I forgot how good the X5 is with FLAC files. 

 if the amp gets better with some burn in then I am in for more pleasure. I will probably use the X5 to burn it in since I can keep both running with ac power.

 Pics to follow. Thanks Ray.

















 Not pictured is my iPhone in a red iSkin case and my Etymotics. 

 Natalie Merchant sound really smooth on my Nano. I can see myself living with this set up for a long time. I want to add HD600s later on as they were my favorites of the 7 pairs I owned at once.


----------



## hockeyb213

LUCKY! Burning in a sr-71a sometimes can be a nuisance because of replacing batteries during burn in


----------



## darkninja67

What kind of runtime does the Mustang get? I never really looked into that or came across hours per charge.


----------



## hockeyb213

If I remember correctly it was something between 20-50 hours but I may be completely wrong there


----------



## 2wheels4me

OK, 69 hours of burn-in as I have kept this thing running for three days straight. I am happy to report that it has become yet more musical in the last half day. The upper end is now sweeter with high treble on piano, high tenor sax notes, etc. There was a bit of bite that is, from an ideal standpoint, about 70% gone. Much silkier with a full but highly controlled bottom end, beautiful imaging, and distinctness of instruments that doesn't exist on headphone out. It's now easier to hear the music rather than the sound of the rig (Admittedly I am spoiled by my very well balanced and pretty expensive full-up speaker-based system). This Mustang definitely greatly enhances the portable experience by making it one large step less compromised. Good job, Ray!

 My listening experience over the last three days and my instincts tell me that the 100 hours of burn-in that RSA recommends is probably spot-on. It truly is much better than just yesterday, and it is no illusion. I am picky as hell and listen very hard and closely.

 So everyone, charge it up, connect it up, turn it up, stow it away in a drawer so that you don't hear the earphone chatter, and let her cook. Bring it out and listen for progress, but just like good food, "don't serve it til it's cooked."


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All the portables including Mustang & SR-71A were tested using UE10, UE11, ES2 by Westone & Weston3, the prototype. I did also listen to them via SE530.
 Ray Samuels._

 

Well there you go!

 I think this covers all the top IEM that people inquire about. I sure would like to hear some UE11's.

 Hopefully I'll get the chance to own a pair sometime in the future.


----------



## jamato8

I was out tagging along yesterday as we were shopping, trying to anticipate that the movement from my partners mouth were words I could just nod Yes to, while listening to the P-51 and enthralled with the soundscape. I was getting such great sound and here I was, walking and enjoying my time, except for the evil glances I got when I know I had been caught and I should not have said yes.. . . . damn, . . . why didn't I just say, whatever you think dear. . .


----------



## rvikul

Has anyone tried pairing the P-51 with a Zune 80 (or any of the 2nd gen Zunes)? Since the Zunes dont have a line out, i was wondering how it sounds through the HP out. I currently own a Zune 80 + Shure SE530.

 Thanks!


----------



## SierraHotel01

Let me tell you how cool Ray Samuels is:

 Ray knows knows that, in my misspent youth, I used to fly the A-10 Thunderbolt II.

 The original Thunderbolt, after which the A-10 was named, was the venerable P-40 Thunderbolt of WWII fame & legend.
Attachment 12401
 ..the 2 aircraft in question

 Now, to get back to the original premise of this little story: Ray.

 Listening to some Def Leppard tonight, and once again, admiring my Mustang, I pondered the serial number (which I've seen for weeks)... "P040"

 Then, it finally dawned on me...
 without a single word, 
 Ray made sure I got P040.
 In memory of the venerable Thunderbolt I.
Attachment 12409

 Ray's competition better "Check 6".
 This guy's good...very good.

 Thank you Ray.


----------



## vjcs20

Hi all,

 Here's a short writeup on my experience using the Tomahawk & Mustang as a pre & power amp combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MUSIC NIRVANA!!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/r...-combo-398105/


----------



## HK_sends

I did a little comparison between the Mustang and SR-71A Blackbird.
 Check out http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/p...arison-397501/ if interested.

 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Attachment 12401
 ..the 2 aircraft in question_

 

So how did the P-40 keep from overtaking the A-10?
 ...or was the Hog's throttles maxed? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -HK sends
 USAF Retired


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray made sure I got P040.
 In memory of the venerable Thunderbolt I._

 

Nice


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how did the P-40 keep from overtaking the A-10?
 ...or was the Hog's throttles maxed? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends
 USAF Retired_

 

The A-10 may be ugly, but at least it's slow!

 And then, there's the gun:
Attachment 12439


----------



## HK_sends

"The A-10 may be ugly, but at least it's slow!"...

 I worked with a couple hog drivers...is it true your maps were produced by Rand-McNally? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a great respect for the Hog and anybody who drives (or has driven) them. It takes serious intestinal fortitude to drive a plane powered by two cement mixers.

 ..."And then, there's the gun"...

 Oh Yea!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back on topic...I love my Mustang!

 All in fun,
 -HK sends


----------



## SierraHotel01

HK,
 Yep, Rand-McNally works just fine (lol) - but, Google Earth would have been nice to have. Seriously, in the days before GPS, low altitude tactical navigation with 1-to-50,000 topo maps was a real challenge at 100 ft over the treetops.

 Speed is Life!
Attachment 12441

 Ray's Mustang is absolutely amazing - we should start a poll on which IEMs, and which full size cans synergize best with it.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, in the days before GPS, low altitude tactical navigation with 1-to-50,000 topo maps was a real challenge at 100 ft over the treetops._

 

I'm sure roadsigns were a godsend...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray's Mustang is absolutely amazing - we should start a poll on which IEMs, and which full size cans synergize best with it._

 

That sounds like a good idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll vote for the Denon AH-D2000s

 -HK sends


----------



## Rico67

Just to say :
*After 200 hours....*
 Mustang sound so natural that it''s insane for the other amps.
 Mine have 300 hours now.
 GREAT AMP if it was necessary to say it !


----------



## darkninja67

closing in on 100 hours and the one thing that is impressing me most is the separation between instruments as well as vocals. Everything is nicely localized with most of my selections. Female jazz vocals are most impressive.


----------



## Rico67

yes great separation bw instruments and natural sound witch is great for jazz and vocal.
 The final burning point is 200 hours for sure.
 Just let it more 100 hours and you'll have the best of this amp.
 i just can compare it with mines :
 Hornet-Predator-XP7 and ALO mini3.
 For the instance the best is XP7 with Moon OPA and just after is Mustang.
 Predator is nearly Mustang after long hours of burning time ( more 1200 hours) but with too much "boost" in the sound.


----------



## woof37

I have a picture of an A-10 stuck in the "mud" from when I was at Al Jaber. Pretty funny to see that thing living up to its hog namesake.


----------



## Kleinkiller

Hi guys...
 did anyone who had the experience on Mustang w/ HD-650 cans ??? 
 If so please share your impression. And let me know what gain you set on ?
 I am about to shoot both of the HD-650 and the IE-8. 
 Just want to see if the Mustang were also perform "Great' on Cans...

 Many, many thank for your expertise.

 J


----------



## SierraHotel01

Thanks for jolting me out of never-never land.
 Been multiplexing work & holidays too aggressively - gotta stop.

 Ray was nice enough to give me a WWII P-40 aircraft serial number (bless him)
 However, I totally spaced out on the name for the P-40 (it was the Warhawk)

 The venerable Republic P-47 pictured below, was the correct namesake (that I was thinking of)
Attachment 12457
 The company later morphed into Fairchilld-Republic, and eventually built the A-10.

 Talk about a senior moment.


----------



## jackBnimble3556

Is this he predator with out the DAC? The Predator is on my want list. I saw the review on the P-51 and it rated higher than the Predator based on Amp only but I really want/need a DAC too. Although I was considering the Pico, about the same price point and size.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kleinkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys...
 did anyone who had the experience on Mustang w/ HD-650 cans ??? 
 If so please share your impression. And let me know what gain you set on ?
 I am about to shoot both of the HD-650 and the IE-8. 
 Just want to see if the Mustang were also perform "Great' on Cans...

 Many, many thank for your expertise.

 J_

 

You should check back some pages. There're many impressions using the P51 to drive fullsized cans.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kleinkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys...
 did anyone who had the experience on Mustang w/ HD-650 cans ??? 
 If so please share your impression. And let me know what gain you set on ?
 I am about to shoot both of the HD-650 and the IE-8. 
 Just want to see if the Mustang were also perform "Great' on Cans...

 Many, many thank for your expertise.

 J_

 

There is a list on the first page of phones deemed by members as working well with the P-51.


----------



## bce22

Well since I was dumb and forgot my iqube and 160gb iPod classic on a plane this holiday I needed a new amp and ordered a mustang. 

 I'm happy to see that it has good synergy with the edition 9's and esw9's. I wonder how the rs-1's and both my deep cup and version 4 darth beyers will sound. 

 Any ideas on what to expect?


----------



## jamato8

I expect that if you leave your new combo on a plane you will call yourself more than dumb. :^)


----------



## woof37

If anyone here has extensive experience with the Predator, I'd like to see a comparison of the two. The Mustang sounds great, except a) I need a DAC with my portable and b) there's been at least one report of problems with Denon 5000/7000 series cans.


----------



## badgerbimmer

Just received a shipment from Moon. Recabled Ultrasone HFI-650 phones and a Black Dragon IPOD doc cable. The P-51 really pushes the HFI-650s.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah I have really been enjoying the Ultrasone 780's for once. I wonder how the new HD800 would be? :^)


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I wonder how the new HD800 would be? :^)_

 

I think it sucks ...

 ... believe me, I'm not lieing to myself


----------



## music_4321

Just wanted to report on the first charge of 12 hrs of my P-51 -- I got 72 hrs on hi gain with my AKG K141, and it could've gone on (much?) longer as red light was still on and not dim.

 Still, I decided to do a second charge, but this time charging while using amp to continue burn-in process.


----------



## jamato8

The 51 and ESW10's JPN combo are sounding great!


----------



## cardude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 51 and ESW10's JPN combo are sounding great!_

 


 I have to agree. There's some good synergy going on with these two.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I find the P51 pairs better with the ESW10JPN than the SR71a


----------



## Gollie

Glad to see this thread still going strong...

 I just wanted to add that I took my portable rig the to grocery store today to enjoy some Jazz and Beck - Odelay while shopping. The middle sized rubber buds that come with the Triple-Fi's offer an amazing seal. I was completely in the zone...the P-51 is a special piece of equipment. Grocery shopping will never be the same again!


----------



## ed lynch

i have to agree to some extent anyway ,i must say 2 swans flew over my head and i looked up ,which i normally do at 2pm today dublin time probably going south, i never seen this before wounder their going to, maybe to taiwan to check out those nice headphones with Myarrio,yours ed


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

Been using the P-51 for a few weeks now with W3's and Grado SR-80's. Gotta say, love this little amp. It's well made and so small! Everything I plug it into it brings the quality out in the sound.


----------



## music_4321

Does anyone know of any full-sized headphones that come with a 1/8" plug rather than an 1/4" one?

 Ray S says we shouldn't use an adaptor with the P-51 when using big headphones, no matter how good it is.

 I'm looking at something in the HD650 price/ sound range. My old AKG K-141 sound OK, but I'm sure there's something out there that may be even better sounding.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know of any full-sized headphones that come with a 1/8" plug rather than an 1/4" one?

 Ray S says we shouldn't use an adaptor with the P-51 when using big headphones, no matter how good it is.

 I'm looking at something in the HD650 price/ sound range. My old AKG K-141 sound OK, but I'm sure there's something out there that may be even better sounding._

 

Why not using the adapter? All you need is to buy to converter of the HD650. It's very flexible, durable and doesn't put any pressure on the P51's jack.

 If you really need the 1/8", then the Grados have an option to choose the plug you want.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know of any full-sized headphones that come with a 1/8" plug rather than an 1/4" one?

 Ray S says we shouldn't use an adaptor with the P-51 when using big headphones, no matter how good it is.

 I'm looking at something in the HD650 price/ sound range. My old AKG K-141 sound OK, but I'm sure there's something out there that may be even better sounding._

 

Well, Denon has the AH-D2000 cans with real good bass that, to my ears, sounds great with the Mustang. It has the 1/8-inch plug.

 Hope this helps,
 -HK sends


----------



## SierraHotel01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know of any full-sized headphones that come with a 1/8" plug rather than an 1/4" one?

 Ray S says we shouldn't use an adaptor with the P-51 when using big headphones, no matter how good it is.

 I'm looking at something in the HD650 price/ sound range. My old AKG K-141 sound OK, but I'm sure there's something out there that may be even better sounding._

 

I think Ray means: don't use Rigid Adapters, like this:
Attachment 12869
 because they are rigid and stick out so far, they can cause damage, by putting too much stress on the internal mounting for the amp's headphone-out jack.

 Check with Ray - I think he would approve of using a soft / flexible adapter, like the Grado accessory below:
Attachment 12871
 $14
 Sennheiser has one too.

 Same utility as a set of D2000's, for example, with a native 1/8" setereo mini plug.

 (or buy the headphone you like best, and re-cable,if you prefer. Get it terminated in 1/8" mini plug)


----------



## music_4321

Thank you _Lil' Knight, HK_sends, and SierraHotel01_ for your helpful advice.


----------



## mogata

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the P51 pairs better with the ESW10JPN than the SR71a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

To each his own. I actually prefer the SR71a with the ESW10s. Maybe it's just me. I like my IE-40s with the P51. Though, both amps are absolutely stellar. My poor little Tomahawk just sits in its red velvet bag these days.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I find both the SR71a and ESW10JPN have too much treble while the P51 has lesser treble and more comfortable to hear in the long run.


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find both the SR71a and ESW10JPN have too much treble while the P51 has lesser treble and more comfortable to hear in the long run._

 

Wow, no kidding! I actually felt the P-51 had slightly more clear/forward treble than the SR-71A (w/ESW10JPN).

 But I wouldn't have called my P-51 burned in then. I should be hitting 200 hours by Saturday.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thread* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, no kidding! I actually felt the P-51 had slightly more clear/forward treble than the SR-71A (w/ESW10JPN)..._

 

It feels like the SR-71A's sound is more "laid back" while the Mustang has that "forward" sound which is why the Mustang and Grados didn't pair up well for me. But the Mustang and the Denons? SSHHWWEEEEETT!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## music_4321

Well, yesterday I ordered my HD650s, and at £179.99 from Amazon UK, think that's quite a good deal. I'll be using them the my P-51.

 Anyone know the suggested burn-in time required for the HD650s? I've read several posts stating they don't sound that great straight out of the box.


----------



## ed lynch

Music 4321, i left my 650s on burn in for 2 weeks using a transistor radio, i noticed it opened out more 'clearer and more refined and less through the looking glass syndrome, that some have reported, in other words, they do open up and sound clearer, in fact checking them now they are clear as a bell, i cant give you exact hours burn in but they do respond to burn in, ED


----------



## Lil' Knight

I think the HD650 needs >1k hours to break-in ...


----------



## Rico67

LOL.
 1K hours at minus.


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music 4321, i left my 650s on burn in for 2 weeks using a transistor radio, i noticed it opened out more 'clearer and more refined and less through the looking glass syndrome, that some have reported, in other words, they do open up and sound clearer, in fact checking them now they are clear as a bell, i cant give you exact hours burn in but they do respond to burn in, ED_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the HD650 needs >1k hours to break-in ..._

 

Thanks to both, but Lil' Knight, are you serious? That'd mean 24/7 for over 40 days! Are you sure you don't mean >100 hrs. instead?


----------



## Lil' Knight

The K701 needs >1k hours .
 The Predator needs >1k hours.
 So why not the HD650?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks to both, but Lil' Knight, are you serious? That'd mean 24/7 for over 40 days! Are you sure you don't mean >100 hrs. instead?_

 

You know, you don't _HAVE_ to keep them in in a closet or drawer the whole time...you could actually listen to them after a hundred hours or so
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then just enjoy the changes in the sound over time. Plus when you're not using them (sleep, work, school, se....whatever), let them burn-in someplace.

 -HK sends


----------



## darkninja67

Would suck if you did not plan on using the Senns at all during 40 days of burn in. 

 My P-51 is opening up nicely. I cannot believe the depth on some recordings, nice and and localization still. Well worth the money IMO.


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The K701 needs >1k hours ._

 

Yeah, mine really opened up between the 756th and 757th hour.


----------



## ed lynch

Music 4321, Seriously in the beginning i thought the senns 650 were opaque, a bit cloudy, but when they got burn in they certainly blossomed, you can use anything to run burn in including your ipod, or any mp3 player, i got the tip on these threads you can even use a small radio,in my case a cheap transistor rsdio, anything you have at hand as long as there is sound coming through the earphones, btw i used other phones at intervals, so i could switch between both, but i did notice a big difference, from day 7, ongoing in my opinion people dont give the senns plenty of time, that reminds me in fact ill give them another run in, they can only get better. ED


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PhilS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, mine really opened up between the 756th and 757th hour. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine was exactly at 987th hour and 654th minute.
 There was a 'crack' sound to notice that they were fully broken in


----------



## kiwirugby

I'm sorry to interrupt the burn-in topic, but would someone be so kind as to simply explain the three position gain on the P-51, i.e., what kind of 'phones are best with a gain of two, six and eleven respectively? (Phones I use most are the following: Shure SE310; ATH-ESW9; K501; and DT880s.)

 I apologise if this has been explained elsewhere in this thread.

 My P-51 arrived this morning and is currently charging. I have a lot of travel coming up starting this Sunday, so the arrival is timely for me. Cheers, Ray!


----------



## ed lynch

I think ill leave that to lil knight.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry to interrupt the burn-in topic, but would someone be so kind as to simply explain the three position gain on the P-51, i.e., what kind of 'phones are best with a gain of two, six and eleven respectively? (Phones I use most are the following: Shure SE310; ATH-ESW9; K501; and DT880s.)

 I apologise if this has been explained elsewhere in this thread.

 My P-51 arrived this morning and is currently charging. I have a lot of travel coming up starting this Sunday, so the arrival is timely for me. Cheers, Ray!_

 

If I were you, I'd use the low gain with the SE310, mid with ESW9 (although I'm using high with my ESW10JPN) and high with K501,DT880. I find the high gain has the most dynamic power and all my phones sound awesome with that gain.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were you, I'd use the low gain with the SE310, mid with ESW9 (although I'm using high with my ESW10JPN) and high with K501,DT880. I find the high gain has the most dynamic power and all my phones sound awesome with that gain._

 

Thanks so much, Lil' Knight, for the quick and really helpful response. I hope other find this helpful too!

 Cheers!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Enjoy your Tang'


----------



## alphataru

How’s everyone’s experience with RSA’s customer service?

 I just placed my order a few days ago, and the most bizarre thing happened. Basically, I sent Ray an initital email asking to place an order for the silver amp (I wrongly identified the grey amp as silver) and asked him to give me payment info. The next day, I paid him via paypal, with the payment, I sent him an email with the picture of the grey amp from his site, to make sure it was the correct color. He promptly emailed me back correcting me that the color I actually wanted is grey, however, grey was out of stock, so he asked me to pick another color. I sent him another email asking for the purple amp (well, I attached the picture).

 This morning, I get an email saying that he already shipped the silver amp to me immediately after my paypal payment (basically ignoring the email I sent him with my payment). So basically any exchange after the first email was pointless. 

 I was under the impression that Ray was a reliable guy and he runs a stand up business, but I’m not sure how in the world he could ship an amp to someone (especially overseas) without confirming the color selection. I also don’t understand how he could be SO efficient, that he sends out the amp immediately after payment before reading the email that came at the same time of the payment. The last thing I’m confused about is why he would ask me for another selection when he already shipped the amp.

 Did everyone here have a good experience ordering from Ray? I really don't want just a random color amp, and at this point I'm perfectly willing to return this and ask for a refund.

 I’ve attached the transcript of the email exchanges below with my personal info edited out:

  Quote:


 According to your pay-pal you have asked for silver amp, so it was shipped on the 14th fed-ex tracking # is 8669 3310 9540

 Cheers.

 Ray Samuels





 -----Original Message-----
 From: A 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:35 PM
 To: rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com
 Subject: RE: Order



 I’ll take this then:



http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/asset...Mustang104.jpg



 Regards,

 A


 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 From: Ray Samuels [mailto:rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com] 
 Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:03 AM
 To: A
 Subject: RE: Order



 Sorry, we just ran out of grey colors, it might be 2 months or so before this color will be available. Please try another color.

 Cheers.

 Ray Samuels

 -----Original Message-----
 From: A 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:42 PM
 To: rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com
 Subject: RE: Order

 Hi Ray,

 I just made the payment via Paypal.


 I noticed I didn’t attach the picture last time. The color I want is this: 



http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/asset...Mustang103.jpg



 Please ship the amp to:

 A

 Also, could you tell me how long it will take for you to ship this out, and how long shipping might take? Thanks a lot!



 Regards,

 A


 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 From: Ray Samuels [mailto:rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com] 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:41 PM
 To: A
 Subject: RE: Order



 $390.00 for Grey P-51, $45.00 for shipping & 4.2% pay-pal fee.

 Total shipped is $453.27

 You may use my e-mail address to transfer the money.

rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com

 We claim the amp as $40.00 value for the customs.

 Cheers.

 Ray Samuels



 -----Original Message-----
 From: A 
 Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 8:04 PM
 To: rsaudio@raysamuelsaudio.com
 Subject: Order



 Hi Ray,

 I would like to place an order for the P-51 Mustang. I would like to have the gray color model as shown in the picture I attached, which a gray knob. I can pay via Paypal. I live in Hong Kong, so can you give me a quote as to how much the entire cost is, and how long it might take until I receive the amp? Thanks a lot, and have a great day.

 Regards,

 A


----------



## jamato8

Ok, you got the amp color you ordered and got fast shipping and . . . . 

 Sorry, I think I would be happy . . . . 

 Nope, never a problem and I haven't read of any other valid complaints but I have read a lot of complements.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I think there'd be no problem if you contact Ray about this.
 I also got a mix-up Mustang (ordered all blacked but turned out black + brass knob), but I think it's better


----------



## alphataru

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, you got the amp color you ordered and got fast shipping and . . . . 

 Sorry, I think I would be happy . . . . 

 Nope, never a problem and I haven't read of any other valid complaints but I have read a lot of complements._

 

Did you bother to read any of what I wrote AT ALL?

 If you HAVE read what I wrote, you'd realize that Ray shipped neither of the two colors I asked for. Seriously, please read before you respond.....


----------



## Headphile808

I got a Clear/White (natural aluminum), so it's the only color that isn't anodized. Which is a good thing, it's more impervious to scratches and dings. I think it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. 
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you bother to read any of what I wrote AT ALL?

 If you HAVE read what I wrote, you'd realize that Ray shipped neither of the two colors I asked for. Seriously, please read before you respond....._

 

Ah, ok. I got silver and grey mixed up. I thought grey was the silver. And yes I did read it so you see, there was some confusion.


----------



## Gberg

anyone know how long the ESW9 take to burn-in?


----------



## alphataru

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, ok. I got silver and grey mixed up. I thought grey was the silver. And yes I did read it so you see, there was some confusion._

 

Np, I got the colors mixed up as well.

http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/asset...Mustang086.jpg

 I wanted the one in the top right, which I thought was silver. Ray corrected me saying it was grey, and later said he sent me the silver anyways. Quite frankly, if that is not silver, then I honestly have no clue what silver is and what he sent me.


----------



## jamato8

I have a silver Predator and really like it. So what did you want, silver or a gray color?


----------



## mp101

I asked for silver/grey (whatever it is) with a gold knob and got what looks to me like an all gold one, Ray said it is silver/grey, it's even been back to him, it looks ok but I still wish it actually looked silver/grey

 But Ray is usually very good at responding/acting on emails and requests, however due to being extremely busy you sometimes recieve some very short replies.


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, you don't HAVE to keep them in in a closet or drawer the whole time...you could actually listen to them after a hundred hours or so
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then just enjoy the changes in the sound over time. Plus when you're not using them (sleep, work, school, se....whatever), let them burn-in someplace.

 -HK sends_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would suck if you did not plan on using the Senns at all during 40 days of burn in. 

 My P-51 is opening up nicely. I cannot believe the depth on some recordings, nice and and localization still. Well worth the money IMO._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music 4321, Seriously in the beginning i thought the senns 650 were opaque, a bit cloudy, but when they got burn in they certainly blossomed, you can use anything to run burn in including your ipod, or any mp3 player, i got the tip on these threads you can even use a small radio,in my case a cheap transistor rsdio, anything you have at hand as long as there is sound coming through the earphones, btw i used other phones at intervals, so i could switch between both, but i did notice a big difference, from day 7, ongoing in my opinion people dont give the senns plenty of time, that reminds me in fact ill give them another run in, they can only get better. ED
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Of course I wouldn't wait 40+ days to listen to my new HD650's, and I know I can use them, and continue burn-in when not in use.

 I simply found 1000+ hrs burn-in quite extreme, and thought if I hadn't heard/ read anything about this burn-in issue, and simply used them for say 2 hours a day, that would mean that only after 1.5 years they'd have reached their full potential

 I think I'll let the burn-in go for about 100 hrs 24/7 and then start using them and alternate listening and burn-in for about 2 more weeks, reaching 300-400 hrs altoghether. Hope that really makes a difference.

 Once again, thanks to all for their comments/ advice.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How’s everyone’s experience with RSA’s customer service?

 :_

 

From my experience, Ray is very effficient and will do what it takes to make you happy. He's only human like the rest of us, so these little confusions will occasionally happen.

 PS - Maybe it's good that the colors are confusing...that means we have a lot of selection. In the old days it was the "big" choice between a black Hammond case or an Altoid's tin.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How’s everyone’s experience with RSA’s customer service?

 I just placed my order a few days ago, and the most bizarre thing happened. Basically, I sent Ray an initital email asking to place an order for the silver amp (I wrongly identified the grey amp as silver) and asked him to give me payment info. The next day, I paid him via paypal, with the payment, I sent him an email with the picture of the grey amp from his site, to make sure it was the correct color. He promptly emailed me back correcting me that the color I actually wanted is grey, however, grey was out of stock, so he asked me to pick another color. I sent him another email asking for the purple amp (well, I attached the picture).

 This morning, I get an email saying that he already shipped the silver amp to me immediately after my paypal payment (basically ignoring the email I sent him with my payment). So basically any exchange after the first email was pointless. 

 I was under the impression that Ray was a reliable guy and he runs a stand up business, but I’m not sure how in the world he could ship an amp to someone (especially overseas) without confirming the color selection. I also don’t understand how he could be SO efficient, that he sends out the amp immediately after payment before reading the email that came at the same time of the payment. The last thing I’m confused about is why he would ask me for another selection when he already shipped the amp.

 Did everyone here have a good experience ordering from Ray? I really don't want just a random color amp, and at this point I'm perfectly willing to return this and ask for a refund.

 I’ve attached the transcript of the email exchanges below with my personal info edited out:_

 



 Here is part of the pay-pal transaction....

 Amount received: 
 $453.27 USD 
 Fee: 
 -$14.80 USD 
 Total: 
 $438.47 USD 


 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Date: 
 Jan. 13, 2009 
 Time: 
 21:39:44 PST 
 Status: 
 Completed 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Subject: 
 Wu Andy 
 Note: 
 This is an order for a silver P-51 shipped to Hong Kong. 
 Shipping Address: 
 Andy Wu

 Yes we are very reliable in our work or I should say as humanly possible
 In your pay-pal transaction, see above, you have indicated the silver color. Yet you sent me the picture of the grey. I indicated to you that, that color is grey in the picture & we are out of the Grey color chassis. Mean while my co-worker who goes to pay-pal to write down the addresses & colors has allready copied what you have allready indicated on your pay-pal transaction, THE SILVER COLOR, thus he packed the silver & shipped it to you. I found out later that it was allready shipped. Sorry if our fast shipping seems to be a little irritating to you my friend. We try our best to ship all orders that come every day THE SAME DAY.
 When I gave you the price with the shipping we did have the grey in stock, but the very few left were sold within one day thus your transaction was late allready that is why I sent you the e-mail. Yet on pay-pal what was indicated by you as the color of choice was shipped with no delay. If you don't like the color then please send it back for exchange of the chassis.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How’s everyone’s experience with RSA’s customer service?

 I just placed my order a few days ago, and the most bizarre thing happened. Basically, I sent Ray an initital email asking to place an order for the silver amp (I wrongly identified the grey amp as silver) and asked him to give me payment info. The next day, I paid him via paypal, with the payment, I sent him an email with the picture of the grey amp from his site, to make sure it was the correct color. He promptly emailed me back correcting me that the color I actually wanted is grey, however, grey was out of stock, so he asked me to pick another color. I sent him another email asking for the purple amp (well, I attached the picture).

 This morning, I get an email saying that he already shipped the silver amp to me immediately after my paypal payment (basically ignoring the email I sent him with my payment). So basically any exchange after the first email was pointless._

 

It seems you left out a little bit of information, if you indeed specified "silver" on the Paypal transaction. If I saw that on the Paypal email, I'd deduce as well that you had realized that grey was out of stock and knew to pick another color.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were you, I'd use the low gain with the SE310, mid with ESW9 (although I'm using high with my ESW10JPN) and high with K501,DT880. I find the high gain has the most dynamic power and all my phones sound awesome with that gain._

 

I have tried the SE310s and ESW9s so far and the pot settings are about equal (11 o'clock) with low and medium gain settings respectively. I assume that's they way things are supposed to work.

 But you're right, the high gain is amazing! With that setting the SE310s and the ESW9s the pot is 7 and 9 respectively and, in my very unsophisticated opinion, sound better with the high gain.

 The SE310s with high gain have more bass than the two other settings. Of course, I have a paltry 3 hours of burn in.....many miles to go before.....


----------



## alphataru

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes we are very reliable in our work or I should say as humanly possible
 In your pay-pal transaction, see above, you have indicated the silver color. Yet you sent me the picture of the grey. I indicated to you that, that color is grey in the picture & we are out of the Grey color chassis. Mean while my co-worker who goes to pay-pal to write down the addresses & colors has allready copied what you have allready indicated on your pay-pal transaction, THE SILVER COLOR, thus he packed the silver & shipped it to you. I found out later that it was allready shipped. Sorry if our fast shipping seems to be a little irritating to you my friend. We try our best to ship all orders that come every day THE SAME DAY.
 When I gave you the price with the shipping we did have the grey in stock, but the very few left were sold within one day thus your transaction was late allready that is why I sent you the e-mail. Yet on pay-pal what was indicated by you as the color of choice was shipped with no delay. If you don't like the color then please send it back for exchange of the chassis.
 Ray Samuels_

 

Like I indicated before, I sent my second email (the email with the actual picture of the color I wanted) simultaneously with the paypal payment. Thus, what I expect was you to see that 1. the payment was received, and 2. read my email and confirm the color and address, then 3. send the unit.

 What I did NOT expect was for you to have a disconnect within the company, where the person answering the emails thought that the unit wasn't sent and the person who received the payment sent the unit. (Both the paypal payment and my email went to the same account, so I don't get how you could get the payment confirmation and not my email at the same time).

 See, what made me angry was not that you shipped the unit, but your indifference and arrogance. "Sorry if our fast shipping irritates you"? Are you kidding? The problem is not fast shipping, the problem is you telling me to choose another color while the unit with the wrong color has already been sent. Quite frankly, I know you have a lot of fans here, but you need to get off your high horse and realize a mistake was made. Yes, my paypal 'comment' said silver, but the confirmation should have came from the EMAIL that I sent you, not the one sentence comment that came with the paypal payment that read 'this is for a silver P-51'.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my experience, Ray is very effficient and will do what it takes to make you happy._

 

My experience was nothing but positive. I am sorry that alphataru's was not. Frustrating and disappointing I am sure, but if the P-51 is anything like everyone describes then the sound, arguably the most important thing here, is what will really count.

 When I contacted Ray I told him I didn't have a PayPal account (never had) and was not interested in getting one. He told me to send a personal cheque, yes, a personal cheque, and he would mail the amp immediately. I mailed the cheque last Friday and the amp arrived yesterday.

 I think that shows real trust and good service. That's my experience.


----------



## alphataru

Well, I have no problem with the sound of the amp, I'm sure it sounds fantastic. I just have a problem with Ray dismissing this as a non-problem.

 In the most recent email he sent me he said 'why are you making such a big fuss about such a small thing?'. Well, to me, once you choose the amp, the color is the most important thing. If you buy a black BMW 330i and BMW gives you a silver 330i, would you just take it thinking 'well, at least I have a BMW'?


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I have no problem with the sound of the amp, I'm sure it sounds fantastic. I just have a problem with Ray dismissing this as a non-problem.

 In the most recent email he sent me he said 'why are you making such a big fuss about such a small thing?'. Well, to me, once you choose the amp, the color is the most important thing. If you buy a black BMW 330i and BMW gives you a silver 330i, would you just take it thinking 'well, at least I have a BMW'?_

 

Actually I would! Thank you very much!

 As I said, I am sorry for your disappointment and frustration, but I would spend much more energy on trying to right the situation (not easy for you, I know) than taking up time and space on a thread that helps readers to understand more about this product and what it can and cannot do with all this negativity.

 Yes, you do a very valuable service to one and all to caution them to very vigilent when ordering, but maybe we can all move on.

 Just be glad you didn't try to order an amp from Xin! At least you have one in hand!!!!!!!!


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphataru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, my paypal 'comment' said silver, but the confirmation should have came from the EMAIL that I sent you, not the one sentence comment that came with the paypal payment that read 'this is for a silver P-51'._

 

Alphataru, this is YOUR fault. You just admitted that you specified the incorrect color on the Paypal payment. Ray was much more polite to you than anyone else would have been.


----------



## Rico67

i think that it's great to know when all run ok or not.
 i understand the Kiwirugby deasapointement even if not was perfect in this transation.
 I just think that sometime Ray can make a commercial effort and send it for free the right coulor box, without discuss.
 The reputation of RSA ( and prices )is based on quality product and *services*.
 So there is nothing to loose to make an exceptional effort for an exceptional trouble.
 Maybe i'm a dreamer, but almost audiophile are dreamer.

 Client Satisfaction is the best way to improve sale.
 If kiwirugby have receipted a free new boxed, maybe one day he 'll purchase a Raptor or other things and make good advertising for RSA.
 For the instance, i'm sure it won't order other amps from RSA.

 So, who is Winner in this deal ?
 Without mention "Sorry..."


----------



## Bitterend

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience was nothing but positive. I am sorry that alphataru's was not. Frustrating and disappointing I am sure, but if the P-51 is anything like everyone describes then the sound, arguably the most important thing here, is what will really count.

 When I contacted Ray I told him I didn't have a PayPal account (never had) and was not interested in getting one. He told me to send a personal cheque, yes, a personal cheque, and he would mail the amp immediately. I mailed the cheque last Friday and the amp arrived yesterday.

 I think that shows real trust and good service. That's my experience._

 

I recently visited Ray's shop in Skokie and purchased a P-51 Mustang. When he learned that I did not yet have an ALO Ipod LOD that I was about to order, he offered the loan of one of his so I could enjoy my Mustang purchase while awaiting my LOD. As a fellow member of the Head-Fi community he extended his trust that I would return it which I did one week later with much gratitude. I couldn't have been more impressed with Ray's customer support. He truly goes the extra measure to see that you are satisfied.


----------



## Rico67

I prefer read this appreciation.
 It's confort me in my choise.
 So, maybe it's time to speak about MUSTANG!
 What great amp.
 I own (or owned) Predator-Hornet-XP7-Mustang.
 in my favourite liste it's XP7 (with OPA 797) and Mustang.
 Mustang at the advantage compare to the others to sound at this best after only 200 hours.
 and the batterie take the charge during more 40 hours nearly 50 h.
 Concerning the sound :
 For me it sounds Perfect like my hornet and predator (nothing more, nothing less) excepted than the predator is a little more dynamic. 
 XP7 sound different, but it's another storie.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bitterend* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... I couldn't have been more impressed with Ray's customer support. He truly goes the extra measure to see that you are satisfied._

 

X2, Ray has to be one of the nicest guys. Plus he makes great products.


----------



## Headphile808

x3, Ray's Customer Service is truly Top-Notch (Not To Mention His Product Line). There is Absolutely No Question w/o a Doubt in My Mind, 100% Certain that I Would Not Hesitate to Order from Ray Samuels Audio Again.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x3, Ray's Customer Service is truly Top-Notch (Not To Mention His Product Line). There is Absolutely No Question w/o a Doubt in My Mind, 100% Certain that I Would Not Hesitate to Order from Ray Samuels Audio Again.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

x4


----------



## Lil' Knight

Somehow the topic becomes a Ray's appreciation thread


----------



## Kahuna

Theirs always a little room for that too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somehow the topic becomes a Ray's appreciation thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## PhilS

Boy, I'm really impressed with this amp. I'm using it with the IE8 and a Whiplash audio LOD with my iPod touch 2g. I'm really surprised a portable setup could sound as good as this. And the improvement the amp makes over the touch headphone out is definitely noticeable, as compared to my previous experience with a portable amp, which I thought made only a very subtle improvement. I wish I could figure out how to use the amp in every application, e.g, such as when I'm at the gym.

 Anyway, my next issue is to figure out the best way to attach the amp to the ipod for use on a plane. I know some people use a rubber band or something like that, but it seems to me that would block part of the touch's screen. I've thought of maybe trying some velcro on the back of the amp and the touch, but I'm not sure if it would leave a residue or mark if I try to take it off later. Any other ideas?

 Maybe Ray should fabricate some kind of clip for attaching the amp to various MP3 players and sell it as an accessory.


----------



## jamato8

I always use velcro and am very happy with the way it works. If you don't want to leave it on it is fairly easy to take off and any adhesive left can be removed by reapplying the velcro and pulling it off again.


----------



## Headphile808

Audioquest Sorbathane Sheet $19.99@AcousticSounds.com. Self-Adhesive, also benefit from reduction of unwanted vibrations, jitter, etc.. So serves dual-purpose as fastener & tweak as well. Just remember you heard it here first. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audioquest Sorbathane Sheet $19.99@AcousticSounds.com. Self-Adhesive, also benefit from reduction of unwanted vibrations, jitter, etc.. So serves dual-purpose as fastener & tweak as well. Just remember you heard it here first. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

would that be similar to dynamat (and also not as convenient as velcro to remove)?


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would that be similar to dynamat (and also not as convenient as velcro to remove)?_

 

It might have similarities w/Dynamat as far as dampening is concerned. The Audioquest Sorbathane doesn't leave a sticky residue behind like the Dynamat & velcro do. It's just the natural adhesive properties of the sorbathane that makes is adhere (no glues or adhesives are used). Although the bond is very secure, it can be easily removed w/minmal effort. Superior product IMO. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might have similarities w/Dynamat as far as dampening is concerned. The Audioquest Sorbathane doesn't leave a sticky residue behind like the Dynamat & velcro do. It's just the natural adhesive properties of the sorbathane that makes is adhere (no glues or adhesives are used). Although the bond is very secure, it can be easily removed w/minmal effort. Superior product IMO. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

That's a neat idea; I think I'll have to check that out. Thanks!


----------



## mrarroyo

Anyone tried?






 I have used it for damping in my headphones.


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audioquest Sorbathane Sheet $19.99@AcousticSounds.com. Self-Adhesive, also benefit from reduction of unwanted vibrations, jitter, etc.. So serves dual-purpose as fastener & tweak as well. Just remember you heard it here first. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

How do yo actually use it?

 Do you use two layers of it, one for the iPod and one for the amp, then sticking one on top of the other?

 My iPod (classic 160gb) is in a leather case (very uncool, I know). Would Sorbathane stick to it at all? At the moment I'm using a rubber band to keep iPod & amp together, but would like to try out something else, specially something that might stick to leather and hopefully not leave a mark on it when peeled/taken off?

 Am I asking for something utterly unrealistic here?


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do yo actually use it?

 Do you use two layers of it, one for the iPod and one for the amp, then sticking one on top of the other?

 My iPod (classic 160gb) is in a leather case (very uncool, I know). Would Sorbathane stick to it at all? At the moment I'm using a rubber band to keep iPod & amp together, but would like to try out something else, specially something that might stick to leather and hopefully not leave a mark on it when peeled/taken off?

 Am I asking for something utterly unrealistic here?_

 

I use just a single layer, but two would be equally effective. As far as sticking to leather, unfortunately not it will only adhere to hard surfaces (metal, plastic etc..). Perhaps some velcro w/adhesive backing might work, although could leave a bit of residue. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808


----------



## music_4321

Thanks Headphile808 - yeah, I suspected there was no alternative, but thought I'd ask, just in case. And yes, I'd thought about using velcro, but residue/ marks on leather will be left if I try to remove it.


----------



## music_4321

.


----------



## wharfrat1

You can add the RS-2 as having great synergy with the P-51. I used the P-51 to burn the 2's in and man does it sound nice with it. Really, it is almost on par with my home setup. It helps extend the bass, and flesh out some more detail in the mids.

 I have some RS-1's on the way (liked these a lot better, than the 2's), and I look forward to getting them connected to the P-51.


----------



## jamato8

When Ray first introduced the P-51 he had it under a box at a meet. Everyone that heard it thought they were listening to a new home amp. Then the box was removed.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Sounds like a magic trick


----------



## rvikul

The P-51 is so small, it makes we wonder... maybe Ray can make an mp3 player with this amp built in! I generally prefer separates for upgradeability but in this case a single device would be so awesome!


----------



## kiwirugby

I did something I have never done: left my maxxed out Xin SuperMacro IV at home and replaced it a recently acquired P-51 Mustang, my first foray into Ray Samuel amps. Not much burn in time, I know, but attached to my 4th Generation iMod and using Shure SE310s on the plane and now ESW9s at work in Honolulu (sorry for all those freezing in the midwest and east coast!) I am really enjoying this remarkable little amp.

 The bigger contrasts for me, listening to classical music (and all kinds of classical music configurations - symphonic, chamber, choral, solo piano, and so on) between the P-51 and the SuperMacro and the SuperMicro (which I did bring with me) are in three areas. First, I find the mids of the P-51 to be absolutely amazing in the details I am hearing. I think Skylab pointed this out already. Second, there is seemingly a better continuity across the entire frequency spectrum on the P-51. Third, I think both Xin's amps have a fuller, richer, deeper more articulated bass (especially with fast-moving notes in the bass clef).

 I know this is a rather early in the process and academic contrast since no one seems to be getting Xin amps anymore, but it does suggest to me some relative attributes of the P-51 (strong mids and continuous sounding frequency spectrum).

 I am so glad I bought the P-51 since I have used exclusively Xin amps once I got sucked into all this! (Save for my iBasso D10-->iBasso P2 that I use with the optical out of my two Sony PCDPs). I am sure I will eventually come back and use the Xin amps, but for now, I want to burn in the P-51 for a long time!


----------



## ed lynch

Kiwirugby, as far as i understand from threads here the p51 only requires minimum burn in, because of smaller caps, say 200 hrs max whereas xin up to at least 800 hrs or beyond maybe more larger cap' still im glad your enjoying your amp, im on the verge of ordering again from ray, this p51, he is good on product design and delivery times, ED.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kiwirugby, as far as i understand from threads here the p51 only requires minimum burn in, because of smaller caps, say 200 hrs max whereas xin up to at least 800 hrs or beyond maybe more larger cap' still im glad your enjoying your amp, im on the verge of ordering again from ray, this p51, he is good on product design and delivery times, ED._

 

Thanks, Ed. Reading about this little amp and burn in is a bit all over the place, so I am not quite sure what to believe. I am not sure that minimum burn in equates for me with 200 hours. Seem a bloody long time to me!!! But since I am one of these people who listens as I burn in (well, I don't burn in per se, but you know what I mean!!!) the whole burn in issue is moot, other than any changes that do indeed take place. I am not brilliant at discerning these things anyway!

 If you can afford it, I would certainly give the P-51 a try. My Xin amps are becoming more of a distant memory as I enjoy the P-51! Poor guys....!!


----------



## ed lynch

Thanks kiwirugby, maybe not even 200 hrs maybe even less than 100 hrs, i think ray has quoted less hrs because it doesnt have large caps inside, of course enjoy the sound of it even when not fully burnt in it can only get better as its in use, me still waiting on one of dr xin masterpieces, things are slow on that front at the moment, ed


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_me still waiting on one of dr xin masterpieces, things are slow on that front at the moment, ed_

 

Don't hold your breath, Ed! Better to get something to tide you over and sell it if Xin ever releases anything.


----------



## Lamenthe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did something I have never done: left my maxxed out Xin SuperMacro IV at home and replaced it a recently acquired P-51 Mustang, my first foray into Ray Samuel amps. Not much burn in time, I know, but attached to my 4th Generation iMod and using Shure SE310s on the plane and now ESW9s at work in Honolulu (sorry for all those freezing in the midwest and east coast!) I am really enjoying this remarkable little amp._

 

The p-51 is absolutely amazing with my ESW9s. This combination is what made me completely love it. It's probably my favorite portable amp aside from my iQube (it's a shame the iQube can't drive more cans). My one grievance is that it's ever so slightly on the bright side. My ears are a little sensitive on high frequencies.


----------



## -=Germania=-

I put on the clear feet and some clear velcro on the bottom of the P-51 going inbetween the feet (the prickly side of the velcro). Then, I put the soft side of the velcro on my Touch. 

 The benefit is that when on a table, the clear feet hold it up, but it still attaches perfectly to my iPod without any of the amp itself making contact with the iPod since the clear feet act like a spacer. I also covered my P-51 in thick, clear packing tape. Protects from scratches and costs next to nothing. Plus, comes off residue free.


----------



## ed lynch

kiwirugby, your absolutely right, waiting so long, its too long, ill go with your advice, and start consentrating on better things to get me through, ed


----------



## not

It seems like a flurry of Mustangs have popped up on the for-sale board recently. Is that a trend?

 What are people replacing their Mustangs with?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *not* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems like a flurry of Mustangs have popped up on the for-sale board recently. Is that a trend?

 What are people replacing their Mustangs with?_

 

I saw two, hardly a flurry but people always buy and sell for different needs and wants. Always have and always will.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *not* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are people replacing their Mustangs with?_

 

DAC1


----------



## not

I guess it depends on your idea of recent. I count 4 for sale going back to the 12th of January.


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *not* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 What are people replacing their Mustangs with?_

 

I dunno, maybe food? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Listened to mine on a trip back and forth to L.A. today. Can't get over how good this amp makes an iPod touch 2g sound. Love the P-51.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *not* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are people replacing their Mustangs with?_

 

...intentions of buying a different amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, the Mustang sound may not appeal to everyone.

 -HK sends


----------



## -=Germania=-

It is a lot of money to be walking around in your pocket. In fact, I am very weary of getting mugged. 

 I have ~$475 in headphone and cables (using the ESW9), $325 in amp, $400 iPod and I usually carry around my Customs with me too (another $425). 
 That adds up to more money than most college students make in a year and more than I know I could cover out-of-pocket. 

 There are definite reasons to sell off equipment including just owning too much to start with.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PhilS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno, maybe food? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Listened to mine on a trip back and forth to L.A. today. Can't get over how good this amp makes an iPod touch 2g sound. Love the P-51._

 

You almost have me pay-pal'ing Ray right now as a touch 2g user
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, does this amp have a low noise floor for sensitive IEMS like the tomahawk did?

 I just realized something
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all rays amps are named after military aircraft, and me being a former member the 107th air calvary. Man, it takes me a long time to put 2 and 2 together anymore. Just as long as I don't come up with 5, I guess I'm OK.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You almost have me pay-pal'ing Ray right now as a touch 2g user
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, does this amp have a low noise floor for sensitive IEMS like the tomahawk did?

 I just realized something
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all rays amps are named after military aircraft, and me being a former member the 107th air calvary. Man, it takes me a long time to put 2 and 2 together anymore. Just as long as I don't come up with 5, I guess I'm OK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess so, on the putting 2 and 2 together. :^)

 I hear no hiss, just a beautiful black background and great sound.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess so, on the putting 2 and 2 together. :^)

 I hear no hiss, just a beautiful black background and great sound._

 

No hiss with UM2, thats a beautiful thing.


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ On a side note, does this amp have a low noise floor for sensitive IEMS like the tomahawk did?
_

 

Yes. I was listening yesterday to a song that was fading out, and I could not believe how long the fade out lasted and I could still hear it. It almost bled into the next song. No hiss or noise to obscure the music. And there was a lot of external noise around me at the time, so it was a pretty good test. It was pretty cool.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just realized something
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all rays amps are named after military aircraft, and me being a former member the 107th air calvary. Man, it takes me a long time to put 2 and 2 together anymore. Just as long as I don't come up with 5, I guess I'm OK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought in the Army, 2 and 2 did make 5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends
 USAF Retired


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought in the Army, 2 and 2 did make 5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends
 USAF Retired_

 

My brother was in the marines. He said 2 plus 2 was what ever they told you it was. :^)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My brother was in the marines. He said 2 plus 2 was what ever they told you it was. :^)_

 

Works for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought in the Army, 2 and 2 did make 5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends
 USAF Retired_

 


 Always up for some Army jokes, heh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 18yr USAF MSgt


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Always up for some Army jokes, heh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 18yr USAF MSgt_

 

Oh yea!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I retired as a MSgt 5 years ago (Wow, has it been that long already?)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, I have a great respect for anyone in uniform...in any country.

 ...especially meter maids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, meter maids are cool and the Beatles knew it too.


----------



## HK_sends

...sooo, how 'bout that Mustang? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like mine.

 -HK sends


----------



## Headphile808

I'm absloutely lovin' mine, with about 200 hrs. of Burn-In, the sound is amazing. Although I was quite impressed with its SQ out-of-the-box, the Mustang has become much more balanced throughout. Treble is sweet, airy & detailed. I look for accuracy in reproduction of percussion instruments, snare drum in particular. P-51 delivers this with great speed & impact, very impressive & a true test in dynamics. Mids are smooth, neutral & highly transparent. Vocals have a hauntingly natural reproduction. Can definitely give you goosebumps, send a shiver-down-your-spine, shed a tear to your eye kind of performance here. Bass is tight & punchy w/good weight & lots of meat. I think it has quite a analytical-type sound, in terms of it's sheer accuracy & surgeon-like precision. It's very revealing of source & recordings, no forgiveness here. ALAC/FLAC files only. Takes the portable listening experience to another level beyond comprehension. I guess thats why Ray named it the P-51 Mustang to commemorate the great fighter plane of WWII. As did Roush Racing w/their P-51 Mustang below. Silver & Black, just like mine.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As did Roush Racing w/their P-51 Mustang below. Silver & Black, just like mine.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

A classy looking car!

 -HK sends


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yea!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I retired as a MSgt 5 years ago (Wow, has it been that long already?)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, I have a great respect for anyone in uniform...in any country.

 ...especially meter maids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends_

 

I really miss flying attack choppers, The assault power on a modern gunship is staggering. I don't miss some of the stuff I had to do though.....

 All the MM's around here are guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously this amp sounds amazing, I do wish I got the pre-order special though. It's harder to let go of the money, especially with the economy the way it is. But this is my only $$ vice, well this and electronics in general.


----------



## jamato8

After 18 months in Vietnam I don't miss any of it. It could all go away.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 18 months in Vietnam I don't miss any of it. It could all go away._

 

You made me sad.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It could all go away._

 

One day, if we're lucky, it will.

 @ Lil Knight: have you had time to form some amp impressions yet?

 With Respect to all,
 -HK sends


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Lil Knight: have you had time to form some amp impressions yet?_

 

I was just thinking the same thing, Lil' Knight how's the amp comparison coming along?
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## mrarroyo

Today I got together w/ vorlon1 and we had the opportunity to test a bunch of portable amps. Probably about 18 different examples. Of consequence to this thread was vorlon1's P51.

 It was interesting to me that we had a few amps to compare w/ which many here have and which IMO would be a good point of reference. Specifically we had two SR71, one SR71A, a Portaphile V2^2, a MiniBox-E+ and a bunch of Xin Reference Boards.

 Anyways, I was very impressed w/ the P51 it clearly blows the doors of the SR71A. It in my opinion has as good a bass as the Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed, and it has better extension and clearer more open presentation which makes it easier to place the instruments.

 Then I compared it w/ the SR71. I can see how someone could have both and be in heaven. I found the bass on the P51 to be a bit punchier and deeper, but it never was out of control nor boomy. However to me the SR71 has a bit more extension a bit more open/clearer. Mind you they are very close and if you did not have them side by side you would not be able to tell the difference. The P51 for someone who carries it in their pocket is a big advantage over the SR71. I use it as a transportable and in my case the size makes no difference, I actually prefer the bigger footprint of the SR71 which allows me to rest my iPod on it and hold them w/ a rubber band.

 I then compared them w/ the MiniBox-E+ w/ the stock op-amps and I still feel it was the better amp of all the ones mentioned. So to recap:

 1. MiniBox-E+
 2. P51 tied w/ the SR71
 3. Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed
 4. SR71A

 BTW, the difference between 1 and 2 is very minor and 3 is not to far behind either. The SR71A IMO is a distant 4th place.

 Of all the Xin Reference Boards both vorlon1 and I agreed that the B2 and C2 boards were the best sounding. These have about 240 hours so back to burning the go, I hope to get together w/ vorlon1 when they have closer to 750 hours which should be in three weeks.

 Note: Although we had the T4, D10 by iBasso and various boards by Xin these were not fully burnt in and it would not be appropriate to post impressions at this time. Leave you with the following picture.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just thinking the same thing, Lil' Knight how's the amp comparison coming along?_

 

My bad. Have been so busy with the class and there was a change in my source. Should be posted soon.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_T

 1. MiniBox-E+
 2. P51 tied w/ the SR71
 3. Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed
 4. SR71A
_

 

I'm really surprised with the ranking. Is the Minibox e+ that really good?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My bad. Have been so busy with the class and there was a change in my source. Should be posted soon.

 I'm really surprised with the ranking. Is the Minibox e+ that really good?_

 

To me it is, however I can tell you that vorlon1 prefers the P51. We all hear differently so it is very hard to speak of absolutes, thus why I say that any of the 3 top amps would make anyone very happy.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I then compared them w/ the MiniBox-E+ w/ the stock op-amps and I still feel it was the better amp of all the ones mentioned. So to recap:

 1. MiniBox-E+
 2. P51 tied w/ the SR71
 3. Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed
 4. SR71A

 BTW, the difference between 1 and 2 is very minor and 3 is not to far behind either. The SR71 IMO is a distant 4th place._

 

Ditto Lil' Knight's quote...I guess I'll have to take a serious look at the Minibox E+.

 I am surprised about the SR-71/SR-71A difference, though. Did Ray change the amp components that much? Could it be the difference in burn-in times or battery flavors?

 -HK sends


----------



## mrarroyo

HK_sends the SR71A that vorlon1 owns has plenty of burn-in. The one I sold had over 1,100 hours of burn in. Both vorlon1 and I use the Tysonic low discharge and low resistance 9 volt rechargeable battery.

 Although we (vorlon1 and I) do not always agree we both feel the original SR71 and the P51 are much better sounding amps than the SR71A.

 Of course, your own ears, gear, and music may yield a totally different result.


----------



## woof37

What's the one in the right foremost part of the picture? Black body, grey facepanel. 

 I'd love to go with a Mustang, but for us laptop- and PC-out folks as a source, it just doesn't help much. I keep hoping RSA will make a w/DAC version of it. Otherwise I'm probably getting a V2 Iqube.


----------



## Headphile808

X3 Minibox-E+? This Amp has gotten alot of attention lately, EFN another big Xin enthusiast has swithched to one as well. Must be really good, and has made me really curious, though not enough to purchase one (yet). Nice comparison mrarroyo/vorlon1.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the one in the right foremost part of the picture? Black body, grey facepanel. 

 I'd love to go with a Mustang, but for us laptop- and PC-out folks as a source, it just doesn't help much. I keep hoping RSA will make a w/DAC version of it. Otherwise I'm probably getting a V2 Iqube._

 

ibasso d10 i think.

 The Nuforce Icon mobile is supposed a very nice sound amp/usb dac. I'd love to try it some days.


----------



## EFN

Yes, it wasn't easy for a Xin zealot like to to swallow the fact that the unassuming MiniBox-E+ could outclass the Xin SuperMicro-IV and SuperMini-IV. And most of you already know how fond I am with the SuperMicro-IV. But I decided to keep an open mind and accept the fact that the MiniBox-E+ is simply a stellar piece of machine.

 So what do I rave so much about the MiniBox-E+,

 1. For the first time, I am getting strong dynamic pressure in an IEM. ER-4S is a cold, analytical, electrostatic like IEM, while all the amps I have used before did make it sound good, really good - The MiniBox-E+ literally brought new lease of life to the 17 years old technology (ER-4). The vibes echoed and reverbrated through the ear canals just like a dynamic headphone - yet the lows are never muddy or overwhelming

 2. The highs are still extended deeply but never spiky or glaring. They are etremely very well textured. Most importantly, the treble does not dominate the entire spectrum like some amps that I have used before.

 3.ER-4S is a super revealing IEM. If there's any weakness in the source it is impossible not to notice. So far I have not heard any weakness with the MiniBox-E+. It so very well balanced and so modest.

 From what I have read, this sort of performance is strikingly similar to Lisa III, and just to satisfy my morbid curiosity to know, I have actually ordered a brand new Lisa III Std to compare. Honestly I could not think of any other battery powered amp that can actually compete with the MiniBox-E+ other than the Lisa III, or perhaps the upcoming Xin Reference 12V.

 But again, like mrarroyo said not everyone hears similarly. It all depends on the type of companion rig and source being used. I have always believed that the Shures will fare better with RSA amps - simply because Ray himself is a Shure E500 user (and now W3 as well). Xin on the other hand is an ER-4 user.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All the portables including Mustang & SR-71A were tested using UE10, UE11, ES2 by Westone & Weston3, the prototype. I did also listen to them via SE530.
 Ray Samuels._

 

Ray's just a user period, not only did he use the SE530s, he used alot of other TOTL IEMs to ensure good synergy w/different combos. Smart Man. EFN thanks for the comments on the MiniBox-E+, as I feel the same way about the synergy the P-51 Mustang has w/My UEs. Now I want Phonak Audeo PFE!
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HK_sends the SR71A that vorlon1 owns has plenty of burn-in. The one I sold had over 1,100 hours of burn in. Both vorlon1 and I use the Tysonic low discharge and low resistance 9 volt rechargeable battery.

 Although we (vorlon1 and I) do not always agree we both feel the original SR71 and the P51 are much better sounding amps than the SR71A.

 Of course, your own ears, gear, and music may yield a totally different result._

 

Well, I'm always on the quest for better sound...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I think I'll stay with the Mustang and SR-71A a little while.

 ...at least until the bank account catches up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I found the bass on the P51 to be a bit punchier and deeper, but it never was out of control nor boomy._

 

I wanted to pick up on this one point about the P-51 bass. Yesterday I was listening to Holst's Planets with my 4G iMod, the P-51 and ESW9s and there were a couple of passages with organ (I forget the specific planets) and the organ is playing fortissimo. I was absolutely stunned at how deep the bass was and how clear and being so loud in the recording. Deep and absolutely clear enough you could hear the true note and not something fuzzy or rolled off. Amazing! It made me stop dead in my listening tracks!!!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to pick up on this one point about the P-51 bass. Yesterday I was listening to Holst's Planets with my 4G iMod, the P-51 and ESW9s and there were a couple of passages with organ (I forget the specific planets) and the organ is playing fortissimo. I was absolutely stunned at how deep the bass was and how clear and being so loud in the recording. Deep and absolutely clear enough you could hear the true note and not something fuzzy or rolled off. Amazing! It made me stop dead in my listening tracks!!!_

 

That reminds me, I would really like to get a copy of a good Planets. All mine are in storage.


----------



## xcluded

hi people, how do you guys burn in the amp ?

 run it with music at normal listening level?

 or run it with a combination of pink/white noise and drums ?

 thanks.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways, I was very impressed w/ the P51 it clearly blows the doors of the SR71A._

 

I haven't heard the P51 yet, but when I compare a SR71 and SR71a, I find them much closer in overall performance then you seem to find them. After reading HK_sends thread regarding the comparison of the P51 and SR71a, I wonder if the type of headphone used is what's creating this difference in opinion?

 It seems like some claim that the P51 favors slightly towards the bright side while the SR71a leans toward the bottom end. As a Grado user, maybe that's why I find the SR71a relatively decent (since it seems to have attributes that would lessen "Grado fatigue").


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That reminds me, I would really like to get a copy of a good Planets. All mine are in storage._

 

Which is the preferred one? There several that I can find. I am really starting to enjoy classical music at the office while I work.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the one in the right foremost part of the picture? Black body, grey facepanel. 

 I'd love to go with a Mustang, but for us laptop- and PC-out folks as a source, it just doesn't help much. I keep hoping RSA will make a w/DAC version of it. Otherwise I'm probably getting a V2 Iqube._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ibasso d10 i think..._

 

Yes, it is the iBasso D10. It only had 14 hours of burn-in and although we listened to it I decided not to post impressions until it has a couple of hundred hours. We also had the T4 but also due to it only having 14 hours of burn-in no impressions. Hint: The T4 is an sleeper IMO, it sure sounds much bigger than its size would imply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xcluded* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi people, how do you guys burn in the amp ?

 run it with music at normal listening level?

 or run it with a combination of pink/white noise and drums ?

 thanks._

 

I just feed it music, stopping maybe once or twice a day for 5 to 10 minutes. Of course it is hooked to a headphone so the amp "sees a load"

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't heard the P51 yet, but when I compare a SR71 and SR71a, I find them much closer in overall performance then you seem to find them. After reading HK_sends thread regarding the comparison of the P51 and SR71a, I wonder if the type of headphone used is what's creating this difference in opinion?

 It seems like some claim that the P51 favors slightly towards the bright side while the SR71a leans toward the bottom end. As a Grado user, maybe that's why I find the SR71a relatively decent (since it seems to have attributes that would lessen "Grado fatigue")._

 

Well, I can tell you that I used a few type of cans w/ the SR71A. For example: Yuin OK1, SuperFi 3 Live, Ultrasone PROline 2500, Senn PX100, Ultrasone HFI-780, etc.

 On the other hand vorlon1 uses mostly IEM's. His favorite is the Westone 3's but he also has UM2, Triple Fi, etc.

 As you can see we have tested all kind of cans w/ the SR71A and FWIW we both prefer the P51 and the SR71. YMMV.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That reminds me, I would really like to get a copy of a good Planets. All mine are in storage._

 

I hope no one minds the little detour, but Jam, in order here are my top three Planets.

 Dutoit/Montreal
 Gardiner/Philharmonia
 Previn/RPO

 With more and more SACDS coming out, there may be better actual recordings.

 Okay, now back to the P-51.......sorry.....


----------



## jamato8

You got to be kidding me. I have those and would pretty much agree. I wish I had one or two with me.


----------



## Nirvana1000

That mustang looks sharp!


----------



## jamato8

Well with many hours on the Mustang I can say that the sound is something I truly enjoy. It is dynamic in a musical way flowing with the sound. The bass is solid and does not smear into the other frequencies. This little amp is a joy to use.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xcluded* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi people, how do you guys burn in the amp ?

 run it with music at normal listening level?

 or run it with a combination of pink/white noise and drums ?

 thanks._

 

Apparently you are being ignored, people just posting past you. I'll answer you. You may burnin in as you are suggesting. With specific type of music or just usage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yes the Mustang is one of the nicer one's of the line that is not too crazy in cost but is the best bang for the buck and well made, great sounding. More burn in time will reveal more of it's quality I'm sure.


----------



## Greymoor

Mine is burning in as I type. I connected it to my pc and then to the amp then to the new ESW9 that I am burning in at the same time. I set my music software to shuffle, hit play, turn it up to moderate loudness and then off we go to endless music for the next 4 to 5 days. I check in and listen throughout the burn in to see how things are shaping up.

 I have a pretty varied music collection so the equipment get hit with just about everything. I personally prefer to use music to break in my equipment.


 Have fun and enjoy!


----------



## thatguyoverthere

I have a iPod classic and a pair of Westone 3s.

 I love the Westones but I find my one issue with it is that the mids sound somewhat recessed and distant. Would the Mustang fix that? Honestly, that's really the one factor I'm considering regarding the purchase of a mustang right now.

 If anyone could answer that, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## vorlon1

I can't say if it would fix it, but I use my W3s with a P-51 and find the mids slightly forward. I think this may be an issue related to the tips you are using, as I have found there is a lot of variation in the sound of the W3's depending on what tips are being used.


----------



## thatguyoverthere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't say if it would fix it, but I use my W3s with a P-51 and find the mids slightly forward. I think this may be an issue related to the tips you are using, as I have found there is a lot of variation in the sound of the W3's depending on what tips are being used._

 

"slightly forward" is exactly how I like my mids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using complys now. I'm going to try some other tips and see what I think.


----------



## vorlon1

I think you would like the P-51, it is a great amp.


----------



## thatguyoverthere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you would like the P-51, it is a great amp._

 

thanks.

 Changing tips from comply to silicon did, surprisingly, help a little.

 I wouldn't call the mids forward, in fact they still sound a little recessed, but it does sound a little better. I'm getting shure olives any day now, hopefully those will give me the comfort of comply with the sound of silicon.

 Anyway, maybe the mids are just recessed by comparison to what I had before. See, I've been using CX500s until now. Aside from the more forward mids (that were much less transparent) the W3s are leagues ahead in every way. Still, I can't help but miss that.


----------



## music_4321

I use the large grey silicon tips - very comfortable, and great sound I get from them. Occasionally I break the seal a little when I feel the bass is a little much.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SierraHotel01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been a fan of Lowepro Apex Cases for awhile (used Apex 30 with Tomahawk/SE530 rig - I think Jamato8 uses them too).

 So, that's where I started looking for a good case for:

 4G Nano-->SXC 18G-->Mustang-->Westone 3 rig

 Here it is: Lowepro Apex PV - $25 at Adorama.com
Attachment 12059
Attachment 12055
Attachment 12061
 ...or, maybe you prefer Blue:
Attachment 12063
Attachment 12065

 PS: not the tightest fit (width-wise) - plenty of room for IEMs. 
 Apex PV's 6" length needed to accommodate 4G Nano + LOD @ 5.5 in._

 

Do you think this case will fit SR-71A with iPhone?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think this case will fit SR-71A with iPhone?_

 

No,, it isn't big enough. The LowePro LP117/GL should work. I have one of those and the 71A fits and there appears to be enough room for the iPhone but what is the output from the iPhone? If a LOD then it would stick out the top.


----------



## jc9394

Thanks, that is what I figure too but want to confirm before ordering a bigger one. I'm using LOD on my iPhone to amp. One more question, how do you compare 71A to Mustang? Are they even comparable when using W3 and HD600?


----------



## jtgamble

Just got my Mustang yesterday. WOW! The first thing I noticed...it is TINY! I didn't fully comprehend just how small it is until I could hold it in my hand. So far, very impressed. Still waiting on my LOD for my iPhone so I can fully test it, but I'm loving it so far


----------



## Luckyleo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well with many hours on the Mustang I can say that the sound is something I truly enjoy. It is dynamic in a musical way flowing with the sound. The bass is solid and does not smear into the other frequencies. This little amp is a joy to use._

 

Thanks Jamato. Appreciate the update. I know when asked by others in this, and other threads, you make a point of stating that both the Mustang and SR-71a are fine amps but with their own great presentation of the music. You may have stated this somewhere else in the thread (I've been away for the last 500 or so posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I would appreciate it if you could provide some specific differences between the 2.

 Thanks!


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtgamble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Mustang yesterday. WOW! The first thing I noticed...it is TINY! I didn't fully comprehend just how small it is until I could hold it in my hand. So far, very impressed. Still waiting on my LOD for my iPhone so I can fully test it, but I'm loving it so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice. You have the same rig I sometimes run. Who is making your LOD?


----------



## jtgamble

QUSP is doing it for me


----------



## jc9394

Finally got my Mustang and it is small


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtgamble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_QUSP is doing it for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL he did mine too. Pretty good work IMO

 should sound great


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my Mustang and it is small
_

 

Sweet


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my Mustang and it is small
_

 

Please provide a comparo when you're ready....


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtgamble* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_QUSP is doing it for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, he did mine too, you're getting the Jena also I see, 18AWG or 22AWG? Got the 18AWG same wire as (Jumbo Cryo), sounds really nice and is well made also.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL he did mine too. Pretty good work IMO

 should sound great_

 

Yeah, I agree he did a very good job on My LOD as well. Both build-quality & sound-quality are top-notch. Through the Mustang, highs are as clear and detailed as I could ask for. Mids are beautifully rendered, very natural and effortless. Bass is tight and punchy with a nice fat bottom end.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please provide a comparo when you're ready...._

 

Will do, Mustang only got one hour burn in now. Per Ray, I need to charge it over on first charge. 

 Out of box, Mustang is kind of flat compare to SR-71A.


----------



## thatguyoverthere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do, Mustang only got one hour burn in now. Per Ray, I need to charge it over on first charge. 

 Out of box, Mustang is kind of flat compare to SR-71A._

 

mind if ask what headphones you're using?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thatguyoverthere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mind if ask what headphones you're using?_

 

w3 and hd600


----------



## jamato8

Yes, it will be flat at first. Give it a few hours and then more. It will all come together. 

 Wow, that gold is great looking!


----------



## thatguyoverthere

jc9394, I got an ipod and Westone 3s, so I'm really looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey Lil Knight! Have you gotten a chance to do a comparison yet?
 Been waitin' with baited breath...

 -HK sends


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it will be flat at first. Give it a few hours and then more. It will all come together. 

 Wow, that gold is great looking!_

 

X 2, yeah, great looking it is!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do, Mustang only got one hour burn in now. Per Ray, I need to charge it over on first charge. 

 Out of box, Mustang is kind of flat compare to SR-71A._

 

Any further impressions?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any further impressions?_

 

Mustang with 3~5 hours burn in, did not get to play with it too much over the weekend. I'm using HD600 for burn in, OMG this little amp can power the HD600 like I will not believe it. The soundstage open up a lot but the bass is still a little loose.


----------



## jc9394

One thing I notice on Mustang, it is not as forgiving as other Ray's offering. It reveal all the bad recording and low bit rate mp3. Anything less than 320kbps is harsh while I can use 192kbps when using Hornet and Blackbird.


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mustang with 3~5 hours burn in, did not get to play with it too much over the weekend. I'm using HD600 for burn in, OMG this little amp can power the HD600 like I will not believe it. The soundstage open up a lot but the bass is still a little loose._

 

wait a minute, a portable amp cannot drive a full size set of cans, that is just not possible.











 People were giving me grief for recommending this amp in another thread. I love the Mustang/600 combo as well.


----------



## jc9394

I said power not drive. I know it can not drive it to full potential. I don't think SR-71A can drive it like my Millett Maxxed but it does have enough juice to power it to a normal listen level without distortions.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wait a minute, a portable amp cannot drive a full size set of cans, that is just not possible.










 People were giving me grief for recommending this amp in another thread. I love the Mustang/600 combo as well._

 

P-51, Mustang was developed using HD600 as a main headphones with the high impedance load.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## music_4321

I must say I fully enjoy the Mustang & HD650 combination.


----------



## jeffreyl

I am happy with the HD650 w/ RSA P-51 Mustang


----------



## Greeni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I said power not drive. I know it can not drive it to full potential._

 


 Same feeling here with the Mustang / dt150 combo. I like the Mustang with other more efficient phones.

 In a recent comparison of the Mustang vs the $600 Lisa III, the latter has obviously better control, bigger sound, and generally more of everything like soundstaging, resolution, etc....but I thought the Mustang has a better tone and midrange, which is important to me. The Lisa strike me as being more transparent to the source but colourless at the same time. Subjectively the Mustang is also more inviting of the two despite scoring lower in the audiophile compartments. The Lisa is not exactly portable so the comparison is not really fair. Someday I would like a full size amp which combine the qualities of the two.


----------



## Headphile808

^Nice. Yep the micro-sized P-51 Mustang never ceases to amaze me. I agree, mids are a strongsuit just flows beautifully. Actually preferring it over the Lisa III, now that's a huge statement, impressive indeed. Did you find it to be too sterile in it's presentation, not as musically involving? I am enjoying Mustang/AD900 combo, and working on MD2000.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I said power not drive. I know it can not drive it to full potential. I don't think SR-71A can drive it like my Millett Maxxed but it does have enough juice to power it to a normal listen level without distortions._

 

It was sarcasm dude.


----------



## jc9394

Is it me or is the Mustang getting louder as it age? I listened to same song around 9 on volume but it seems like louder than I first got the am.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Nice. Yep the micro-sized P-51 Mustang never ceases to amaze me. I agree, mids are a strongsuit just flows beautifully. Actually preferring it over the Lisa III, now that's a huge statement, impressive indeed. Did you find it to be too sterile in it's presentation, not as musically involving? I am enjoying Mustang/AD900 combo, and working on MD2000.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

X2, I was totally amazing on how the P-51 handle my HD600. Listening to Diana Krall, it seems like she is singing in front of me. The soundstage is not as wide as my desktop amp but for an amp this size, it really amazes me.

 Mustang/AD900 - can you please elaborate a little more? I'm consider getting either AD900 or AD1000.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was sarcasm dude._

 

I know what you meant, just want to put on a firesuit before getting frames.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL he did mine too. Pretty good work IMO

 should sound great_

 

Do you have the low profile version? Does Mustang have any room to use the right angle mini?


----------



## darkninja67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the low profile version? Does Mustang have any room to use the right angle mini?_

 

Mine is not low profile. PM qusp and he will answer questions. He sent me a **** ton of pics too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is not low profile. PM qusp and he will answer questions. He sent me a **** ton of pics too._

 

He did sent me pics on the low profile LOD but I'm not sure it can fit the P-51. Where are you in Boston? I'm in Cambridge.


----------



## Rico67

Ipod Nano3 8GB+ ALO SXC 18G dock cable +Mustang....
 I'm really stonished with this little amp.
*What's great amp.*
 I have a top sound (medium position) with GS1000.
 I owned it since 2 months ago (nearly 500 hours), and each time i listen it, it's a new pleasure.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rico67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ipod Nano3 8GB+ ALO SXC 18G dock cable +Mustang....
 I'm really stonished with this little amp.
*What's great amp.*
 I have a top sound (medium position) with GS1000.
 I owned it since 2 months ago (nearly 500 hours), and each time i listen it, it's a new pleasure._

 

I'm still in the burn in process, how do you compare the Mustang to Hornet?


----------



## Rico67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still in the burn in process, how do you compare the Mustang to Hornet?_

 


 I can't say that Mustang is better or not compare to Hornet.
 For me they sound different and i love the 2.
 Just can say that Mustang is just more "Neutral".
 I prefer use Mustang with Westone 3 and when i use regular Ipods (essentialy my nano 3G)
 When i listen Imod and Pvcaps, i prefer the warm sound of my Hornet (non M).


----------



## jtgamble

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the low profile version? Does Mustang have any room to use the right angle mini?_

 

The one that I ordered is low profile. I can let you know how it fits once it arrives - hopefully early next week.


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He did sent me pics on the low profile LOD but I'm not sure it can fit the P-51. Where are you in Boston? I'm in Cambridge._

 

Yes, I also got lots of pictures from _qusp_, and went ahead and ordered one of his LOD cables. But, I regret I did. You can read about my experience on the feedback I've left here, page 2: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f12/qu...57/index2.html

 However, in all fairness, mine is the only serious negative feedback post he's got so far out of 15.

 You can get a very decent LOD cable on eBay from seller _*awwan*_ for $33.95 or from seller _*bassel-e*_ for $43.60, both including shipping - and both are well built, nice looking and good sounding. I've had both and sold one. The cable from _awwan_ cable is more flexible and 2 inches smaller. Both are reputable eBay sellers with lots of items sold (800+ & 2000+ respectively) and 100% feedback.

 The cable I ordered from _qusp_ cost $78, was faulty, and when it did work sounded just as good as the eBay ones I mentioned above.

 My suggestion to you or anyone is to be very careful who you purchase from and also very careful about purchasing expensive gear, where in some instances something cheaper (not cheap) will be just as good, without all the hype of more expensive stuff that generally comes with fancy jargon, which often happens to be an effective marketing tool.

 That being said, I've had the Mustang for over a month now, and I'm very happy with that purchase and excellent service from Ray. Also very happy with my Westone 3, where after having a problem with a faulty cable, Westone have gone out of their way to send me a brand new unit, which should be here in a couple of days - fantastic sounding IEMs, IMO


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2, I was totally amazing on how the P-51 handle my HD600. Listening to Diana Krall, it seems like she is singing in front of me. The soundstage is not as wide as my desktop amp but for an amp this size, it really amazes me.

 Mustang/AD900 - can you please elaborate a little more? I'm consider getting either AD900 or AD1000._

 

Well I've had the Mustang for about two months now (300+ Hrs.). Recently aquired AD900 from a fellow Head-Fier in mint condition 10/10 w/300 Hrs. on them as well. First impression, was very good as they seemed to have a very good chemistry, synergy is definitely there. I was worried that they wouldn't have enough detail, as I'm a bit of a percussion-lover, but this is not the case. In fact, highs were very clear and airy, just beautifully rendered. Mids were very lush, perhaps just a touch warm yet still very neutral in it's overall presentation. Bass, at least through the Mustang is very well-balanced, tight and punchy, fast and accurate. Simply just a joy to listen to, as the Music flows out of it so effortlessly, so naturallly, pure liquidity. I mainly listen to Jazz, though I did listen to Eric Clapton 461 Ocean Boulevard, some Sade/Norah Jones/Jack Johnson/Bob Marley/Rush/Primus, just to test it's versatility w/other genres, and it did very well. I must admit they are quite revealing, and You will definitely know when a recording is bad, well not really bad, but just not as good as you thought it was. And I'm not talking about bad rips, low-bitrate mp3s & m4as. I only use ALAC files and can easily hear the differences. But then again, that suits Me just fine, as I prefer to hear it as the artist intended. Highly Recommended. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Headphile808


----------



## Greeni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Nice. Yep the micro-sized P-51 Mustang never ceases to amaze me. I agree, mids are a strongsuit just flows beautifully. Actually preferring it over the Lisa III, now that's a huge statement, impressive indeed. Did you find it to be too sterile in it's presentation, not as musically involving? I am enjoying Mustang/AD900 combo, and working on MD2000.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

Huge statement indeed. I did not find the Lisa sterile, just that its midrange and tonality didn't do it for me. 

 I am new to headphones, my listening in the past are mainly with speakers. If I am reading these recent posts correctly, the Mustang sound decent enough and can drive some load as well. Help me understand this: what then do I gain from going to a good full sized headamp ? I am thinking of the Rudistor RPX-33...


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I've had the Mustang for about two months now (300+ Hrs.). Recently aquired AD900 from a fellow Head-Fier in mint condition 10/10 w/300 Hrs. on them as well. First impression, was very good as they seemed to have a very good chemistry, synergy is definitely there. I was worried that they wouldn't have enough detail, as I'm a bit of a percussion-lover, but this is not the case. In fact, highs were very clear and airy, just beautifully rendered. Mids were very lush, perhaps just a touch warm yet still very neutral in it's overall presentation. Bass, at least through the Mustang is very well-balanced, tight and punchy, fast and accurate. Simply just a joy to listen to, as the Music flows out of it so effortlessly, so naturallly, pure liquidity. I mainly listen to Jazz, though I did listen to Eric Clapton 461 Ocean Boulevard, some Sade/Norah Jones/Jack Johnson/Bob Marley/Rush/Primus, just to test it's versatility w/other genres, and it did very well. I must admit they are quite revealing, and You will definitely know when a recording is bad, well not really bad, but just not as good as you thought it was. And I'm not talking about bad rips, low-bitrate mp3s & m4as. I only use ALAC files and can easily hear the differences. But then again, that suits Me just fine, as I prefer to hear it as the artist intended. Highly Recommended. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

Thanks for the info, how does Diana Krall sound on Mustang with AD900? I use HD600 and to me it seems like smaller soundstage when I compare to Mustang to Blackbird. I do agree the mid is definitely a stronger on Mustang.


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info, how does Diana Krall sound on Mustang with AD900? I use HD600 and to me it seems like smaller soundstage when I compare to Mustang to Blackbird. I do agree the mid is definitely a stronger on Mustang._

 

I think the mids of the Mustang is definitely a strongsuit, as all vocals have such naturalness to them, such realism. Soundstage on the AD900 is huge, wide-open w/pinpoint-accuracy, excellent spatial-imaging w/good sense of height and depth as well. Truly gives you an out-of-head experience. I've been throwing a lot different types of music at the 900s: Miles Davis/John Coltrane/Pink Floyd/Steely Dan/System Of A Down/Beck/Radiohead, and it's passing everything w/flying colors. Haven't tried playing a FPS with these yet, just Music so far, but I can already tell that the soundstage is going to make for some accurate fragging. Good Luck.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## jamato8

I find that D. Krall on the phones I have is very fine on the P-51. There is a real jump factor to the music.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find that D. Krall on the phones I have is very fine on the P-51. There is a real jump factor to the music._

 

For some reason, I kinda prefer SR-71A when I listening to Diana Krall over P51.


----------



## jamato8

It is great to have choices. :^)


----------



## qusp

so hows it fit on the mustang jesse?? any pics yet? i'm keen to see how it went because the mustang is such a small unit with bugger-all room.

 and hey music_4321 he's already seen my feedback thread I think. I recommend it; I post a link in every PM and its on the bottom of my sig.


----------



## reinhard

Hi All,

 Can anyone who is using the Mustang P-51 with some W3 IEMs tell me what gain setting on the Mustang they've found to be best?

 Thanks!

 KR


----------



## Lil' Knight

The low gain is far more enough for the W3.


----------



## Edward Ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The low gain is far more enough for the W3._

 

I concur.

 -Ed


----------



## jc9394

Wow, it all I can say now. I have been in client site for over a week and do not want to bring my amp there as it will draw a lot of unnecessary questions, so I was using my W3 with iPhone HP out for a week. Now finally back at work with iPhone 3G/LOD/Mustang/W3. The first thing I notice is all the details I been missing and the instrument separations. 

 This amp really make a huge difference from day one to over 100 hours on it. From my engineer background, I really do not think burn in will make that much differences.


----------



## -=Germania=-

It is capacitors which need burn in, much like the batteries in a cell phone. 
 A Cell phone battery isn't going to reach its full capacity from the first charge. It takes about 4-5 full charge and full drain to get the full capacity. 

 The whole circuit basically needs to get used to electricity passing through it (tin isn't exactly the best conductor and that is what the joints are made of regardless of the copper boards and they act like tiny bottlenecks) The wires also store electrons and have their own resistive and capacitive qualities, albeit very small. Capacitors do need to go through the process of charging and to a certain degree discharging (you know - passing power and all) to reach their desired state.

 Just like how a headphone driver needs to be used (extend back and forth) to reach its relaxed state, it is a process of working out the kinks. Tubes, if brand new, need a little time to burn off all of the potentially leaked-in air to sound their best. 

 I too used to think burn in was BS and in most cases I still do think so with these astronomical numbers (1000 hours? Seriously?). IMO in practical real life applications (toasters, doorbells, digital transmission, etc.), it doesn't make a difference. People sometimes forget about the mind burn in where you get used to the sound.

 Thus far, have heard no difference in sound since I wrote the review a while back. 
 Mine easy has more than a few thousand hours on it since it is used for several hours a day, every week day. Or I could just be missing something....LOL


----------



## ibis99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is capacitors which need burn in, much like the batteries in a cell phone. 
 A Cell phone battery isn't going to reach its full capacity from the first charge. It takes about 4-5 full charge and full drain to get the full capacity. 

 The whole circuit basically needs to get used to electricity passing through it (tin isn't exactly the best conductor and that is what the joints are made of regardless of the copper boards and they act like tiny bottlenecks) The wires also store electrons and have their own resistive and capacitive qualities, albeit very small. Capacitors do need to go through the process of charging and to a certain degree discharging (you know - passing power and all) to reach their desired state.

 Just like how a headphone driver needs to be used (extend back and forth) to reach its relaxed state, it is a process of working out the kinks. Tubes, if brand new, need a little time to burn off all of the potentially leaked-in air to sound their best. 

 I too used to think burn in was BS and in most cases I still do think so with these astronomical numbers (1000 hours? Seriously?). IMO in practical real life applications (toasters, doorbells, digital transmission, etc.), it doesn't make a difference. People sometimes forget about the mind burn in where you get used to the sound.

 Thus far, have heard no difference in sound since I wrote the review a while back. 
 Mine easy has more than a few thousand hours on it since it is used for several hours a day, every week day. Or I could just be missing something....LOL_

 

Pretty and Smart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Is that condescending?


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ibis99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty and Smart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is that condescending?_

 

Head-Fi stal-kers clap clap clapclapclap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kidding.


----------



## badgerbimmer

i am lovin' mine. easily pushes 701s and Pro900s.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *badgerbimmer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am lovin' mine. easily pushes 701s and Pro900s._

 

Easily?


----------



## pyp007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *badgerbimmer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am lovin' mine. easily pushes 701s and Pro900s._

 

I wouldn't go so far as "easily". Enjoyable is probably more accurate. My desktop amp Shanling PH100 barely drive k701 adequately.

 PS. I do have p51 and k701. P51 can drive k701 to a loud level but that does not mean it can drive k701 easily.


----------



## -=Germania=-

opps! Didn't mean it to be!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I worked out a trade + cash to get a used P-51, so I can see what the big deal is anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should have it Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I worked out a trade + cash to get a used P-51, so I can see what the big deal is anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should have it Monday or Tuesday._

 

Oh sure, hope you enjoy that amp that *I* was hoping to snag.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...I is gonna gets me a P-fidy 1 some day soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to reading your thoughts compared to Pico.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I worked out a trade + cash to get a used P-51, so I can see what the big deal is anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should have it Monday or Tuesday._

 

I'm sure that you will love this amp


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sure, hope you enjoy that amp that *I* was hoping to snag.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...I is gonna gets me a P-fidy 1 some day soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to reading your thoughts compared to Pico._

 

Here is where it is crazy - I could have sold my D3 for $160 and paid the $220 difference in cash for a new P-51 (instead of a used one). 

 But instead I traded the D3 and still paid the $220 difference. But the guy who got my D3/cash only paid $315 for the P-51 (I was gonna buy at that price but he beat me). So, in the end he is only out $95 for the D3 (plus shipping). Now that is a real deal on his end!

 I figure there is little difference between a 3 month old P-51 and a new one, so I did okay and only lost $40 for the 4-month trial with my D3. I wouldn't have sold it except for having the D10 now.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is where it is crazy - I could have sold my D3 for $160 and paid the $220 difference in cash for a new P-51 (instead of a used one). 

 But instead I traded the D3 and still paid the $220 difference. But the guy who got my D3/cash only paid $315 for the P-51 (I was gonna buy at that price but he beat me). So, in the end he is only out $95 for the D3 (plus shipping). Now that is a real deal on his end!

 I figure there is little difference between a 3 month old P-51 and a new one, so I did okay and only lost $40 for the 4-month trial with my D3. I wouldn't have sold it except for having the D10 now._

 

He did get a nice deal. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have that red/black P-51? For a 2 color combo there is a +$25 charge so at current price that is $400+$14 shipping for a new P-51.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He did get a nice deal. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have that red/black P-51? For a 2 color combo there is a +$25 charge so at current price that is $400+$14 shipping for a new P-51._

 

Yes, that is the one.


----------



## dissembled

Guys, a quick question: Does it come with an AC adapter for charging?

 Thanks.


----------



## Edward Ng

Sure does!

 -Ed


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sure, hope you enjoy that amp that *I* was hoping to snag.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...I is gonna gets me a P-fidy 1 some day soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to reading your thoughts compared to Pico._

 

Are you trying to buy...or borrow?

 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you trying to buy...or borrow?

 Cheers!
 -HK sends_

 

Borrow you say...sure send 'er right over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I plan to buy. I haven't decided on new or used yet...used if a good, safe deal presents itself when funds allow.


----------



## jamato8

I love listening with the amp. It is one I will never get rid of so don't look this way! :^)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Borrow you say...sure send 'er right over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I plan to buy. I haven't decided on new or used yet...used if a good, safe deal presents itself when funds allow._

 

Well, that's the thing. I just got my Blackbird back and need to get reacquainted with it. If you PM me, I can arrange to loan my 'stang to you (with the proper collateral: House...car...first born...etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 -HK sends

 P.S. ...or we could work a trade for a bit...


----------



## Displayman

I got my P-51 Mustang at the late November or early December and have used it for about 1000 hours and it really works and sounds wonderful. I have not used my Hornet since I started to listen to the new P-51 with Westone 3's and have been very happy.

 Another terrific product from Ray Samuels. I hightly recommend this amp.

 Steven


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, that's the thing. I just got my Blackbird back and need to get reacquainted with it. If you PM me, I can arrange to loan my 'stang to you (with the proper collateral: House...car...first born...etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 -HK sends

 P.S. ...or we could work a trade for a bit..._

 

I do appreciate the offer but I have faith that I would prefer to own this amp so to eliminate the risks that would be involved I will decline.

 Thank you.


----------



## ibis99

I just wanted to chime in here to thank Ray Samuels for not only a truly great! Portable Amp, but also for his excellent customer service and great respect for his competitors. 

 I won't go into detail here but sufice it to say that Ray is a true gentelman. 

 If your on the fence about this amp don't be. It really is perfect!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do appreciate the offer but I have faith that I would prefer to own this amp so to eliminate the risks that would be involved I will decline.

 Thank you._

 

Your welcome. And you are right, you will want to own the P-51 given the chance. Even new, it's worth the price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck, I hope you are able to find one. 

 -HK sends


----------



## gjg

Mine's coming from Ray on Monday, can't wait.... Is Ray's estimate of 200 hours break-in time pretty accurate?
 gg


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gjg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine's coming from Ray on Monday, can't wait.... Is Ray's estimate of 200 hours break-in time pretty accurate?
 gg_

 

I would say it is pretty much right on. You know, give or take an hour or two. :^)


----------



## d3private

errr... new to head-fi here,
 one quick question, I'm using IE8 atm and looking for portable AMP, is there any synergy between IE8 and P-51 Mustang? 
 the past pages I read mostly stated the synegry with W3, scared later found out isnt that good with IE8.
 planning to upgrade from my D2.


 Thx


----------



## -=Germania=-

I didn't really notice anything after 100 hours and the changes between hour 80 and 100 are subtle to say the very least. There are some amps, ahem, with big electrolytic or super tight film output caps which take a while to reach their full potential. This has neither of those things....just get some power going through it - should sound great. I put a detailed time- review around here somewhere.


----------



## Edward Ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d3private* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_errr... new to head-fi here,
 one quick question, I'm using IE8 atm and looking for portable AMP, is there any synergy between IE8 and P-51 Mustang? 
 the past pages I read mostly stated the synegry with W3, scared later found out isnt that good with IE8.
 planning to upgrade from my D2.


 Thx_

 

I have an IE8 I am still burning in and a P-51 Mustang I am still burning in, but so far my Westone 3 sounded impressive with the Mustang out of the box and have only become more and more stellar sounding as a pair with more hours on the Mustang. The IE8 I have not yet gotten a chance to really test out with my P-51, but so far I have yet to able to get as good a sound out of my IE8s from any amplifier or source compared to my Westone 3. This is not to say there is poor synergy; it might be insufficient hours of burn-in on my IE8 or wrong tip selection (have only tested about 3 or 4 different tips with my IE8s so far). I will come back with further results later after I feel I've put in as much burn-in as the IE8 deserve for proper testing and results.

 That being said, the IE8 are improving in sound quality over time with burn-in, just not as much as I had originally hoped. As of last night, when I did extensive A/B comparison between my two IEMs, I still find the textures through the entire sound spectrum of the IE8 to be not as good as my Westone 3s, though the bass has cleaned up significantly and the highs are finally coming out and sparkling a bit. Headstaging is still clearly better in the IE8 versus Westone 3, though. I am now burning in, "everything at once," basically, by keeping the IE8s plugged into my Benchmark DAC1's headphone out, and then my Mustang plugged into the Benchmark DAC1's RCA line out from the back using a Cable Pros Ear Candy RCA stereo > Mini adapter/cable, and then the Westone 3s to the Mustang, and playing music to the DAC1 from foobar2000 24 hours a day ever since I received my IE8 last week.

 I have to admit, the Benchmark DAC1 > RSA Mustang P-51 > Westone 3 setup is the best sounding IEM sound system I have ever heard in my life; absolutely breathtaking. The Mustang P-51 is *clearly* a superior amplifier versus the DAC1's built-in headphone amplification stage, just from doing A/B comparisons. For that reason alone, I am actually quite confident the IE8s will sound a lot better if I were to switch the IE8s and Westone 3s around (move the Westone 3s to the Benchmark's headphone out, and move the IE8s to the Mustang), but I haven't had a chance to do that because I'm enjoying the sound of the Westone 3s on the Mustang too much to bother. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed


----------



## gjg

Good to hear. I'm WAY too impatient when it comes to things like burn-in... Hope it sounds at least livable out of the box.
 gg
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't really notice anything after 100 hours and the changes between hour 80 and 100 are subtle to say the very least. There are some amps, ahem, with big electrolytic or super tight film output caps which take a while to reach their full potential. This has neither of those things....just get some power going through it - should sound great. I put a detailed time- review around here somewhere._


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love listening with the amp. It is one I will never get rid of so don't look this way! :^)_

 

Ditto, I will never get rid of this *amazing* portable amp.


----------



## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d3private* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_errr... new to head-fi here,
 one quick question, I'm using IE8 atm and looking for portable AMP, is there any synergy between IE8 and P-51 Mustang? 
 the past pages I read mostly stated the synegry with W3, scared later found out isnt that good with IE8.
 planning to upgrade from my D2._

 

I have the IE8 and the Mustang and I think they are wonderful together. I would not worry about synergy at all; I think that if anyone doesn't like this combo, it is likely that they don't like the IE8 for some reason (or maybe just prefer the W3). But if you like the IE8 (which is an awesome IEM in my opinion), you will only like it more with this great amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edward Ng* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an IE8 I am still burning in and a P-51 Mustang I am still burning in, but so far my Westone 3 sounded impressive with the Mustang out of the box and have only become more and more stellar sounding as a pair with more hours on the Mustang. The IE8 I have not yet gotten a chance to really test out with my P-51, but so far I have yet to able to get as good a sound out of my IE8s from any amplifier or source compared to my Westone 3. This is not to say there is poor synergy; it might be insufficient hours of burn-in on my IE8 or wrong tip selection (have only tested about 3 or 4 different tips with my IE8s so far). I will come back with further results later after I feel I've put in as much burn-in as the IE8 deserve for proper testing and results.

 That being said, the IE8 are improving in sound quality over time with burn-in, just not as much as I had originally hoped. As of last night, when I did extensive A/B comparison between my two IEMs, I still find the textures through the entire sound spectrum of the IE8 to be not as good as my Westone 3s, though the bass has cleaned up significantly and the highs are finally coming out and sparkling a bit. Headstaging is still clearly better in the IE8 versus Westone 3, though. I am now burning in, "everything at once," basically, by keeping the IE8s plugged into my Benchmark DAC1's headphone out, and then my Mustang plugged into the Benchmark DAC1's RCA line out from the back using a Cable Pros Ear Candy RCA stereo > Mini adapter/cable, and then the Westone 3s to the Mustang, and playing music to the DAC1 from foobar2000 24 hours a day ever since I received my IE8 last week.

 I have to admit, the Benchmark DAC1 > RSA Mustang P-51 > Westone 3 setup is the best sounding IEM sound system I have ever heard in my life; absolutely breathtaking. The Mustang P-51 is *clearly* a superior amplifier versus the DAC1's built-in headphone amplification stage, just from doing A/B comparisons. For that reason alone, I am actually quite confident the IE8s will sound a lot better if I were to switch the IE8s and Westone 3s around (move the Westone 3s to the Benchmark's headphone out, and move the IE8s to the Mustang), but I haven't had a chance to do that because I'm enjoying the sound of the Westone 3s on the Mustang too much to bother. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed_

 

I'll be able to add my thoughts on P-51 with Westone 3 vs IE8 in a couple of days.

 What I have found is that the IE8 are much more picky about the amp I use, and they prefer an amp that isn't as warm and punchy as the Predator, Pico, 3MOVE or XM5. So, I suspect the P-51 isn't going to a great match either. I've got posts on amp synergy in the IE8 thread already.


----------



## Jeff

Just got my P-51 a few days ago. They are great with the IE8. The sound is very musical, and seems to add to the mid-range, along with giving the highs a bit more precision.


----------



## dissembled

Odd question regarding colors... but are the grayish looking amps in the photos actually silver? 

 I personally plan to buy silver plates with black body but am not sure what silver looks like (grayish or 'true' silver as in these photos.)

 Can anyone provide a photo or short description of what a silver Mustang looks like? I hope the greyish amps are actually grey and not silver. Does silver look...silver? 
 Again, sorry for the rather odd question.


----------



## GreatDane

There is a grey(upper right) and clear(lower left), or "mill" as I call it.

 I think you want clear.






 Check out this post from Ray-----> *LINK*


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a grey(upper right) and clear(lower left), or "mill" as I call it.

 I think you want clear.






 Check out this post from Ray-----> *LINK*_

 

Those are some fantastic colors...but with that tacky gold silkscreening, ugh. White would look so much better.


----------



## -=Germania=-

The purple is actually a deep purple in person. 

 Plus, if you have gold as a color in your system, it integrates nicely. 
 My system has 24k gold engraved plates on the iPod Touch, a black molded custom LOD (protrudes 0.8cm), and a Black plates + Purple body P-51. It does look girly, but matches all very nicely. I will take pics.


----------



## Kahuna

Germania, where did you come up with that LOD? (I like it!)


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The purple is actually a deep purple in person. 
_

 

I love Purple but that's not deep enough for me but I admire your willingness to flaunt that crazy thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the red/black but I might get plain black to match my Yo Tank case. There are about 4 or 5 color combos that I could like but I don't have 2K to play with.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kahuna* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Germania, where did you come up with that LOD? (I like it!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd bet money she made it herself.


----------



## Edward Ng

She'll even make one for you for a reasonable price, looking at her web site...

 How tempting. I wonder if it would work right with my Hippocase!

 -Ed


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The purple is actually a deep purple in person. 

 Plus, if you have gold as a color in your system, it integrates nicely. 
 My system has 24k gold engraved plates on the iPod Touch, a black molded custom LOD (only protrudes 0.8cm from the iPod), and a Black plates + Purple body P-51. It does look girly, but matches all very nicely. I will take pics.
_

 

I don't know, G. That thing looks like some prop out of a Prince video.


----------



## Edward Ng

Yo dawg, Prince got mad skills!

 -Ed


----------



## -=Germania=-

Hey, at least I am not using a rhinestone case anymore. 

 I told you it was girly. I think only the hello kitty rig still out-girls me though. 
 BTW: HeadphoneAddict, whoever would take that bet is crazy. When was the last time I didn't make my own stuff....well other than this amp.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, at least I am not using a rhinestone case anymore. 

 I told you it was girly. I think only the hello kitty rig still out-girls me though. 
 BTW: HeadphoneAddict, whoever would take that bet is crazy. When was the last time I didn't make my own stuff....well other than this amp._

 

Sheeeeite...hey now, that was way past girly. More like full on drama queen.


----------



## -=Germania=-

If the Crown fits.

 or in this case - massive headphones...


----------



## jamato8

I would take a case like that for one of my iRivers. And I don't care if someone called me a girly boy either.


----------



## GreatDane

............................................. ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Nice!*


----------



## jc9394

Speechless, my wife will kill me if she see all those DAP and amp.


----------



## markh78

One iRiver per genre of music


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I would take a case like that for one of my iRivers. And I don't care if someone called me a girly boy either._

 


 What a great picture (iRiver/amp envy). My friend and I could match that pic.....if we pooled our iRivers together.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a great picture (iRiver/amp envy). My friend and I could match that pic.....if we pooled our iRivers together._

 

Don't forget about the amps!

 One DAP for each genre...reminds me of Bigshot who has many iPods for that purpose.


----------



## verjuno

jamato8 wow!!


----------



## Headphile808

Had me staring at that pic for a while, til' I realized that it wasn't a store or iRiver expo or something. jamato8 that's impressive to say the least, nice to have so many options. Decisions, Decisions.....
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## lucifix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The purple is actually a deep purple in person. 

 Plus, if you have gold as a color in your system, it integrates nicely. 
 My system has 24k gold engraved plates on the iPod Touch, a black molded custom LOD (protrudes 0.8cm), and a Black plates + Purple body P-51. It does look girly, but matches all very nicely. I will take pics.




_

 

Hey,

 May I know where I can get one of those custom LOD's? They look very cool!


----------



## Edward Ng

She makes and sells them.

 I'm wondering where she got the awesome gold plate for the face! Kinda want something like that for my iPhone...

 -Ed


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I would take a case like that for one of my iRivers. And I don't care if someone called me a girly boy either._

 


 I take it you like the iriver h120/140 series
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Must be the optical out.


----------



## berthoud

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I would take a case like that for one of my iRivers. And I don't care if someone called me a girly boy either._

 

What a collection, I guess its always good to have a backup!


----------



## 43st

I've had this amp for 4 months or so and it's just an amazing piece of engineering. I was a little underwhelmed in the beginning but after a week or so of on/off listening it really came to life... I mean REALLY came to life. I'm very happy with it (Thanks Ray!).

 I do have a question though.. I almost feel like purchasing another one, just for home use. If I wanted the P-51 sound in a non-portable amp what should I look at?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *43st* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had this amp for 4 months or so and it's just an amazing piece of engineering. I was a little underwhelmed in the beginning but after a week or so of on/off listening it really came to life... I mean REALLY came to life. I'm very happy with it (Thanks Ray!).

 I do have a question though.. I almost feel like purchasing another one, just for home use. If I wanted the P-51 sound in a non-portable amp what should I look at?_

 

I would ask Ray but frankly, the P-51 has a pretty distinctive sound. Just get another one and glue it down to something and you have your home amp. :^)


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get another one and glue it down to something and you have your home amp. :^)_

 

Very good idea.


----------



## 43st

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would ask Ray but frankly, the P-51 has a pretty distinctive sound. Just get another one and glue it down to something and you have your home amp. :^)_

 

You know that's a great idea, expect maybe not with glue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. I could CNC some aluminum plates, connect them with some stand-offs, in a skeletal fashion and make a little desktop adapter for it! Might be a fun little project.


----------



## rasmushorn

Will the Mustang and SR325i be to much "upper mid" paired together? Anyone tried that?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the Mustang and SR325i be to much "upper mid" paired together? Anyone tried that?_

 

Don't have 325i anymore, but it is nice with my RS-1 and flats.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the Mustang and SR325i be to much "upper mid" paired together? Anyone tried that?_

 

Yes, I tried that. Refer to:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/p...arison-397501/ Check out the "Bonus Section", where I listen to the Mustang (and SR-71A Blackbird) with the 325i's.

 I do believe the Grado sound and the Mustang's tendency to emphasize the upper mid-range make the pair fatiguing. However, I have been playing around with my Cowon O2 Media Player's DSP to find a comfortable sound using both (listening to them right now). Right now, I am enjoying some tight, punchy bass with the 325i and the Mustang (I know I said differently in my review, but as I said, I have been tweaking my player's settings).

 So with some EQ and DSP tweaking, they can be made to sound good together, but I still don't feel it's the best pairing.

 Hope this helps.
 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Every time I listen to the P-51 I realize how good it is. This amp is just plain musical and fun. What else can you ask for? Well, that is my opinion.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every time I listen to the P-51 I realize how good it is. This amp is just plain musical and fun. What else can you ask for? Well, that is my opinion._

 

It's so sad that the Amphora sounds better than all my other portable amps... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Sometimes #2 isn't so bad though... i.e. I do like the P-51 more than all the others that are real portables.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's so sad that the Amphora sounds better than all my other portable amps... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Sometimes #2 isn't so bad though... i.e. I do like the P-51 more than all the others that are real portables._

 

Very nice. So the Amphora is a portable that fits in your pocket?


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every time I listen to the P-51 I realize how good it is. This amp is just plain musical and fun. What else can you ask for? Well, that is my opinion._

 

I completely agree with you, every day I am amazed by the SQ of this amp.

 @HeadphoneAddict, I'm not sure it's fair to compare a $995 amp with the P-51.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice. So the Amphora is a portable that fits in your pocket?_

 

HAHAHAH! 

 No, pockets are not an option.


----------



## jamato8

Then I guess I saying my Woo 6 is better won't count either in the portable world. I notice every time I try and get up it jerks the phones off of my head. And I thought if I used portable phones it would be a portable to.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I guess I saying my Woo 6 is better won't count either in the portable world. I notice every time I try and get up it jerks the phones off of my head. And I thought if I used portable phones it would be a portable to._

 

But, the Amphora is portable, and runs 38 hours on a 9v re-chargable battery. 

 Blutarsky and I were sitting in his car listening to it with my iMod on Saturday with some Grado HF-1, till my wife came knocking on the car window and made me go shopping with her. Spoil sport.


----------



## jamato8

So is the Lisa III but I am afraid I don't really think it is a pocketable amp.


----------



## Headphile808

How's this, like a Prize Fighter, Pound For Pound P-51 Mustang is the Champ of it's weight class. Or is it Ounce For Ounce..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## shanghaiW3

Someone that owns a P-51 and W3: could you explain in detail the difference in sound (soundstage, bass, mids, treble, instrument separation, etc.) between an un-amped W3 and adding a P-51? I am really tempted as I hear they have great synergy but would like to know people's personal experiences. Thanks!


----------



## abitdeef

I put my rupees down on one of these little gems
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 C'mon Fed -Ex!


----------



## AmericasTeam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I put my rupees down on one of these little gems
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 C'mon Fed -Ex!_

 

Let us know what you think. I am really looking at this amp. Very tempting!


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmericasTeam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let us know what you think. I am really looking at this amp. Very tempting!_

 

Burning it in and charging it right now


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmericasTeam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let us know what you think. I am really looking at this amp. Very tempting!_

 

I don't know if this will help with how more tempting the tiny P-51 could (should) be, but yesterday I was watering the garden at the same time listening to this rig: 4G iMod --> ALO jumbo cry mini-mini --> P-51 --> Klipsch Image X10. I was listening so intently to Stravinsky's Firebird and all the detail and absolutely insane bass that I succeeded in flooding the roses and half the bloody neighbourhood!!! 

 For the longest time I have been listening to the same rig with one of Xin's maxxed-out SuperMacros, but the P-51 demands attention. Sure grabbed mine! I have no desire to go back the SuperMacro....for now.....in fact, I may send it to Xin for an upgrade and wait 11 years to get it back!

 A different measure of engagement, true, but a measure none the same.

 Go for it!!!


----------



## abitdeef

Yes already with just 12 hours on it it's pretty amazing. I didn't realize how detailed the touch 2nd gen's LO is. I just didn't notice with the ibasso t4. This thing is very revealing and detailed, almost too detailed. I'm sure the treble will smooth out with some more burn in.


----------



## AmericasTeam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if this will help with how more tempting the tiny P-51 could (should) be, but yesterday I was watering the garden at the same time listening to this rig: 4G iMod --> ALO jumbo cry mini-mini --> P-51 --> Klipsch Image X10. I was listening so intently to Stravinsky's Firebird and all the detail and absolutely insane bass that I succeeded in flooding the roses and half the bloody neighbourhood!!! 

 For the longest time I have been listening to the same rig with one of Xin's maxxed-out SuperMacros, but the P-51 demands attention. Sure grabbed mine! I have no desire to go back the SuperMacro....for now.....in fact, I may send it to Xin for an upgrade and wait 11 years to get it back!

 A different measure of engagement, true, but a measure none the same.

 Go for it!!!_

 

It's killing me! I really want this amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes already with just 12 hours on it it's pretty amazing. I didn't realize how detailed the touch 2nd gen's LO is. I just didn't notice with the ibasso t4. This thing is very revealing and detailed, almost too detailed. I'm sure the treble will smooth out with some more burn in._

 

Just wait til you reach 100 hours...


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmericasTeam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's killing me! I really want this amp._

 

Not very nice of me, was it?????


----------



## AmericasTeam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not very nice of me, was it?????_

 

Not very nice at all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like I may have to place an order in the very near future.


----------



## Jian

p-51 and k701 makes the champ.I've done a intense a/b/c test with p-51+701/702/650 with variety of different types of music,and have to say even on mid gain it drove all three nicely. But without any modifications, K701 stands out in most of the categories, and its like the p-51 was designed for k701s. Note that with different cable other than stock, the 650 and 702 have more fine to play with, and as we know that the k701 is kind hard to mod. Source was imod 5g with aol dock and apple lossless. Plus I really wear them on streets, perfectly portable.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_p-51 and k701 makes the champ.I've done a intense a/b/c test with p-51+701/702/650 with variety of different types of music,and have to say even on mid gain it drove all three nicely. But without any modifications, K701 stands out in most of the categories, and its like the p-51 was designed for k701s. Note that with different cable other than stock, the 650 and 702 have more fine to play with, and as we know that the k701 is kind hard to mod. Source was imod 5g with aol dock and apple lossless. Plus I really wear them on streets, perfectly portable._

 

Your wear the K701 on the street? Awesome.


----------



## Jian

haha, It'll really be a pain in the neck in 3 months, for the weather in hong kong is pretty much headphones unfriendly. Its better than dt880/860 though, 701/702s.


----------



## Headphile808

I'm loving the synergy that the P-51 Mustang has w/My newley aquired Senn HD25-1 II. Great portable alternative to IEMs, they excel in isolation, have great impact & are unmatched in SPL. Getting a custom cable made for them, which will bring out more mids, add a little more treble energy & extension & tighten up the bass, to make these even more fun to listen to on-the-go.

 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## abitdeef

This little amp seems to have a great synergy with a lot of phones
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It sounds amazing with ihf 780, senn hd595, and phonak PFE. I can't wait to try the new westones- the W3 hurt my ears, the new one is supposed to smaller sized so heres hoping!.

 I still can't believe how separated and detailed everything sounds with this through the touch 2g LO. The headphone out sounds like mush compared to the p-51 LO. Much smaller soundstage and stuff gets "lost" in the mix way too easy. I always thought the touch 2g sounded great although a little shrill at times, but thought the resolution wasn't as good as my other daps. I thought maybe it did have a crappier DAC, but heel no! it's just got a crappy HO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm at 60 hours of burn in and the treble is more pronounced and smoother, also the soundstage seems to have opened up more. Mids are so smooth and silky. When I hear my man Bono sing, it brings a tear to me eye, and when I hear my friend Paul Gilbert massage the fretboard, It makes me want to shred and throw my axe through the china curio!! ( cause Paul I'll never be quite as good as you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Yes the mids are quite nice


----------



## Jarmel

Just got mine today. Hasn't really wowed me but a few factors are probably limiting the impact. Also wow this is small.

 1)Using Er4-P instead of W3 or RS-1 as both are in the repair shop
 2)Not using LOD as getting mine at the end of next week from Moon-Audio
 3)Not burned in yet


----------



## Headphile808

#2 is the biggest factor IMO, the Etys should still sound good, as should the amp even though it's not burned-on yet. That will all change once you get the LOD. Amplifying the HP Out should be avoided at alll costs. 

 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## jc9394

This amp really amuse me everyday, it sound so good with esw10.


----------



## Jarmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_#2 is the biggest factor IMO, the Etys should still sound good, as should the amp even though it's not burned-on yet. That will all change once you get the LOD. Amplifying the HP Out should be avoided at alll costs. 

 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

Now I'm ready to hang myself. I don't know if I just have crappy ears or something but I can barely tell a difference when it's amped and when it's not
 and even that I'm not sure if it's mental burn-in. Will the LOD make that much of a jump?


----------



## pyp007

ER-4P is extremely sensitive and easy to drive. The difference between amped and unamped is not big. But when I used my ER-4P+4R adapter with P-51, the difference is huge.


----------



## pyp007

Forgot to mention that LOD definitely will make a significant difference and is much better than connecting to headphone out.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I'm ready to hang myself. I don't know if I just have crappy ears or something but I can barely tell a difference when it's amped and when it's not
 and even that I'm not sure if it's mental burn-in. Will the LOD make that much of a jump?_

 


 See my post 4 up from yours. The LO signal makes a big difference in the quality of the sound. Once you get used to listening from the LO amped the headphone out will seen flat and one dimensional.


----------



## Jarmel

I guess I'll wait and see then. Anyone recommend a good DAC to go with the Mustang or would I be better served just upgrading Ipod to Imod?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I'll wait and see then. Anyone recommend a good DAC to go with the Mustang or would I be better served just upgrading Ipod to Imod?_

 

It depends on whether you want to listen on your iPod or Computer. The iMod sounds best with a Vcap dock, so you are looking at $250 to do the iMod + $350 for a portable Vcap dock, and $50-100 for a nice mini-mini to connect the P-51 to it. That $700 will buy you a lot of DAC.

 Then it's not clear, do you mean a portable DAC? How good does it have to be, what is your budget, etc...


----------



## Jarmel

I apologize I'll be more specific. Budget from 300-400. I have a Macbook Pro and obviously a regular Ipod. Would it be more beneficial overall to get a portable DAC for my laptop or just get the Imod(and skip the dock for now)? I'm trying to figure out the best way to utilize the Mustang.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I apologize I'll be more specific. Budget from 300-400. I have a Macbook Pro and obviously a regular Ipod. Would it be more beneficial overall to get a portable DAC for my laptop or just get the Imod(and skip the dock for now)? I'm trying to figure out the best way to utilize the Mustang._

 

How about a Pico DAC only, AMB Gamma 1, iBasso D10 DAC, or Headroom Micro DAC. All are good and in your price range.


----------



## wolfen68

x2 on the MicroDAC or D10.


----------



## Jarmel

Just so I'm clear, buying a DAC would be a better use of my money? Thank you for all the help you've given already.


----------



## 43st

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so I'm clear, buying a DAC would be a better use of my money? Thank you for all the help you've given already._

 

I think you have all you need for great audio... Use the P-51 for a week or two before you purchase anything else. It warms up substantially.


----------



## holyharry

Just hit 100 hours with mine. It improves hugely when burned in.

 Oh lordy, it's a beauty, all the good things I've been reading here are true. I can't fault it, it will never leave my side! Bought it direct from Ray, a real gentleman, great service


----------



## GreatDane

Does anyone have a Wine colored P-51? I'd like to see pics in alternate lighting than what Ray shows at the website.


----------



## meusickfrek

Has anyone tried the Pico Dac with the P-51, I have the Pico Dac on order and would like to use it with a P-51 and HD 600's for a very nice/small portable laptop setup.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Ah, I will soon be in the p-51 club!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *meusickfrek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Pico Dac with the P-51, I have the Pico Dac on order and would like to use it with a P-51 and HD 600's for a very nice/small portable laptop setup._

 

I can't imagine anyone has, since you can buy the Pico DAC/Amp already, ie: No need for two devices.


----------



## thread

@GreatDane, I've got a few pics of my wine P-51... Unfortunately, the lighting isn't so great.











 Hmm that lighting does suck. I guess this may be no help at all...


----------



## GreatDane

^ Hey, thanks. Question: does the Wine color look like dark Purple as I see it in Ray's shot? A dark Purple color is what I want.

 Nice collection.

_edit_ I just noticed the knob. Is it Gold or Clear? I like that.

_edit#2_ I tried to tweak your pic but not much help.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I think it's brass. I also had the same one.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's brass. I also had the same one._

 

I think you're right. 

 Ray's color descriptions


----------



## meusickfrek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't imagine anyone has, since you can buy the Pico DAC/Amp already, ie: No need for two devices._

 

well I really want the Pico Dac to try a different flavor of DAC compared to the NOS DAC (Valab) I have now, maybe I should roll some OPAMPS into the Ibasso Viper I already have, that is unless the Pico DAC/P-51 combo is Much better, besides wouldn't this combo be the best of both worlds?


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Hey, thanks. Question: does the Wine color look like dark Purple as I see it in Ray's shot? A dark Purple color is what I want.

 Nice collection.

edit I just noticed the knob. Is it Gold or Clear? I like that.

edit#2 I tried to tweak your pic but not much help._

 

It's mostly "dark purple" but I'd imagine "purple" would be a bit more saturated at least... It's more "grape" ... "wine" sounds about right. If it's not the color you're looking for, it's at least pretty close.

 I was gonna say the knob is gold, but maybe he calls it brass...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thread* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's mostly "dark purple" but I'd imagine "purple" would be a bit more saturated at least... It's more "grape" ... "wine" sounds about right. If it's not the color you're looking for, it's at least pretty close.

 I was gonna say the knob is gold, but maybe he calls it brass..._

 

Thanks. That seems like the color I want. I also like the Red/Black combo so it's difficult to decide. 

 I bet your getting tired of that silly ol' P-51.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know a guy that would be glad to take it off your hands.


----------



## Jarmel

Just got my LOD, it's alot cleaner. Music is less flat and better soundstage. Can't wait to get my hands on my RS-1s or W3(which should benefit alot more from the amp) when they come back next week. Also sent in Ipod for Imod, which should help too. Not bad for a college student huh?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not bad for a college student huh?_

 

At least better than me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Make sure you have the correct LOD for your forthcoming iMod.


----------



## Jarmel

Yea I need to buy the ALO LOD for the iMod.


----------



## charlie0904

this amp really rocks...


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charlie0904* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this amp really rocks..._

 

I have to agree! It has become my favorite amp...


----------



## gideonMorrison

I wants it!!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gideonMorrison* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wants it!!_

 

Then buy one. Choose a color and let it rip. :^)


----------



## gideonMorrison

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then buy one. Choose a color and let it rip. :^)_

 

I'll be getting my paycheck soon! I'm going for all black...black's always good, hehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You're quite the devil today Jama, 6666 posts!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gideonMorrison* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be getting my paycheck soon! I'm going for all black...black's always good, hehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're quite the devil today Jama, 6666 posts!_

 

I guess I have only a little devil inside me, no longer 6666, :^) but I still have a 666, yikes!!!


----------



## charlie0904

hi all, i saw a pic in a audio meet where mustang connected to a desktop amp. so do i connect my cans to desktop amp or mustang? sound wise?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charlie0904* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ i saw a pic in a audio meet where mustang connected to a desktop amp._

 

for what? It should be a DAC or CDP, not a desktop amp.


----------



## Ricey20

Just got my P-51. Black body with red plates and brass knob. First thing that came to mind...HOLY CRAP ITS SMALL! Charging it now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Listening now with sansa fuze + LOD + ES3X. I have to say, even unburned this thing is really good. It's a better match with my ES3X than the minibox.


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Howdy,

 Got my P-51 in Blue last Thursday. Got done burning it in Tuesday morning and I have to agree with Germania’s observations / review of the changes during the 100 hours of burn in. Only been using it with my iTouch and X-5 which sound very good together.


----------



## GreatDane

I'm sure this has been asked 20 times already but how do you now when the battery is fully charged?

 Sorry for the newb question.


----------



## thread

@GreatDane, Ray says the light/switch flickers... but it's pretty hard to see. I think I've only noticed it like once or twice. Most of the time I don't pay attention.

 You can't overcharge the thing, so just juice it up over night or whatever...


----------



## jamato8

After a couple of hours, if the battery has been run down pretty good, it will be charged and the charging will shut off. There is no real indication of this but I have found than after 2 or 3 hours the amp is fully charged, depending upon how discharged the battery was.


----------



## GreatDane

OK, thanks guys. I'm used to my Pico charge light...also the XM5 charger has a red-->green light. Not a big deal because I usually leave them plugged into the charger overnight anyway.

 I'm listening to my P-51 with HD 650 now...much listening and comparing to do.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Enjoy your little amp


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Enjoy your little amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Oh, I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wasn't prepared for the size...and I thought Pico was really small.

 I'm definitely hearing a difference compared to Pico, mids just POP! -smacking me in the face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've used HD 650 and PFE so far and both confirm forward mids,very nice detail...I'm afraid to bust out my 325i


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wasn't prepared for the size...and I thought Pico was really small.

 I'm definitely hearing a difference compared to Pico, mids just POP! -smacking me in the face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've used HD 650 and PFE so far and both confirm forward mids,very nice detail...I'm afraid to bust out my 325i 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do not know if my hearing is becomming "mids only" - but the P-51 is absolutely amazing with the SR325i. The bass and mids becomes so open and tight in the 325's when it is run by P-51. It's so pleasing for the ears and gives me no listening fatigue even after a full work day with them....my favorite amp/headphone-combo at the moment.


----------



## charlie0904

it seems mustang is giving me fatigue with PFE black filters. does that mean mustang doesn't suit me?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know if my hearing is becomming "mids only" - but the P-51 is absolutely amazing with the SR325i. The bass and mids becomes so open and tight in the 325's when it is run by P-51. It's so pleasing for the ears and gives me no listening fatigue even after a full work day with them....my favorite amp/headphone-combo at the moment._

 

I agree! It sounds great with the 325i's. I did find over time that some music that accents mid-range and highs can be fatiguing, buy YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## EFN

A couple of days ago I have had a chance to hold an RSA Predator in my hand...I was surprised with the rather smallish size....which makes me wonder how really tiny this Mustang is...............


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of days ago I have had a chance to hold an RSA Predator in my hand...I was surprised with the rather smallish size....which makes me wonder how really tiny this Mustang is..............._

 

Emmeline "P-51 Mustang" Portable Headphone Amp - Ray Samuels Audio (look at the second and third row of pics where it shows both amps)


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Emmeline "P-51 Mustang" Portable Headphone Amp - Ray Samuels Audio (look at the second and third row of pics where it shows both amps)_

 

Yep it is TINY lol


----------



## kloan

I wonder why he doesn't list dimensions for his amps.. I find that annoying. I'd like to compare dimensions with other amps...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kloan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder why he doesn't list dimensions for his amps.. I find that annoying. I'd like to compare dimensions with other amps..._

 

Here's what I measure:

 Height = 25/32" or just shy of 13/16"
 Depth = 2 5/16" + 5/16" for volume knob (2 5/8" total)
 Width = 1 13/16"


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's what I measure:

 Height = 25/32" or just shy of 13/16"
 Depth = 2 5/16" + 5/16" for volume knob (2 5/8" total)
 Width = 1 13/16"_

 

This is my favorite picture showing just how small the Mustang is...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my favorite picture showing just how small the Mustang is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is that your P-51? Black w/ Blue knob?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that your P-51? Black w/ Blue knob?_

 

It's mine but it's not black, it's blue with dark gray end plates.

 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's mine but it's not black, it's blue with dark gray end plates.

 -HK sends_

 

That is beautiful. So different and very appealing.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is beautiful. So different and very appealing._

 

I thought so too...in a Civil War-ish kind of way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nah, I just really like blue and gray (when I ordered it from Ray, I made sure to stress the blue knob...I think I drove him nuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 The serial number is P008.

 Cheers!
 -HK sends

 P.S. - Pardon the dust...I didn't know my camera was that good...


----------



## wht

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know if my hearing is becomming "mids only" - but the P-51 is absolutely amazing with the SR325i. The bass and mids becomes so open and tight in the 325's when it is run by P-51. It's so pleasing for the ears and gives me no listening fatigue even after a full work day with them....my favorite amp/headphone-combo at the moment._

 

The combination of my P-51 with my pair of 225s sound great too. I can listen to and enjoy the music for hours on end!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's mine but it's not black, it's blue with dark gray end plates.

 -HK sends_

 

Very nice and close to one of the color combos that I was interested in:


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice and close to one of the color combos that I was interested in:




_

 

Yea, other than the knob color (which matches the lettering on the amp body). Truth is, I would love to get a brass colored knob like that for my Blackbird, just to add a touch of character.

 -HK sends


----------



## GreatDane

I wonder if Ray would sell just the knob. I wouldn't mind having a Grey, Clear or Brass for mine.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if Ray would sell just the knob. I wouldn't mind having a Grey, Clear or Brass for mine._

 


 I am sure he would....Ray have always been very attentive to his customers.


----------



## Dr.J

I asked Ray if the 71a has a brass knob available; he said: "no."


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dr.J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Ray if the 71a has a brass knob available; he said: "no."_

 

Did he say SR-71A is available again?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did he say SR-71A is available again?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5654028-post163.html


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dr.J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Ray if the 71a has a brass knob available; he said: "no."_

 

Oh well, it was a good idea at least. Thanks for asking!

 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of days ago I have had a chance to hold an RSA Predator in my hand...I was surprised with the rather smallish size....which makes me wonder how really tiny this Mustang is..............._

 

A few more pics to compare the size to other amps.


----------



## Lil' Knight

wow, the Headsix is far smaller than I thought.


----------



## -=Germania=-

The Headsix is a really nice amp for the money. I would say nigh unbeatable at the $150 it goes for on the used market. Not ideal for IEM's with less than 16ohms of resistance though. 

 BTW: iPod Touch owners, you should totally DIYmod that sucker. Did mine this morning - is AWESOMENESS!


----------



## CooLy_oNE

Hai..where can i buy the thing that stick together the amp and the ipod? what is it called?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CooLy_oNE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hai..where can i buy the thing that stick together the amp and the ipod? what is it called?_

 

Velcro I buy it at a hardware store.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm sitting here listening to Patricia Barber "Companion" with my iMod, portable Vcap dock and P-51 mustang; and I'm still surprised at how good the P-51 sounds driving my HD600. I have NO complaints about the P-51 driving my HD600. It's not my Maxed WA6, but it sure sounds like a desktop amp.

 I'm in medium gain with the volume between 2:30 - 3 o'clock, and it gets pretty loud maxed out in medium gain with no clipping. At max in medium gain it is louder than I usually listen to music, without clipping, and maybe slightly louder than my ALO Amphora in high gain. The bass is tight and quick, mids and vocals are sweet, and highs are crisp. There is also good ambience and soundstage. I do have the APureSound V3 cable on my HD600 and it does help the HD600 gain some extra transparency and detail and extension.

 Neither of these portable amps has a right to sound this good driving a 300 ohm full size headphones.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW: iPod Touch owners, you should totally DIYmod that sucker. Did mine this morning - is AWESOMENESS!_

 

hmmm, sounds interesting.


----------



## kloan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW: iPod Touch owners, you should totally DIYmod that sucker. Did mine this morning - is AWESOMENESS!_

 

link?


----------



## -=Germania=-

HERE IS THE Mod pics:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5643577

 Here is my post on how to successfully remove the metal shield without strain. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5656376



 Best of luck and please use an smd iron, along with a steady hand.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sitting here listening to Patricia Barber "Companion" with my iMod, portable Vcap dock and P-51 mustang; and I'm still surprised at how good the P-51 sounds driving my HD600. I have NO complaints about the P-51 driving my HD600. It's not my Maxed WA6, but it sure sounds like a desktop amp.

 I'm in medium gain with the volume between 2:30 - 3 o'clock, and it gets pretty loud maxed out in medium gain with no clipping. At max in medium gain it is louder than I usually listen to music, without clipping, and maybe slightly louder than my ALO Amphora in high gain. The bass is tight and quick, mids and vocals are sweet, and highs are crisp. There is also good ambience and soundstage. I do have the APureSound V3 cable on my HD600 and it does help the HD600 gain some extra transparency and detail and extension.

 Neither of these portable amps has a right to sound this good driving a 300 ohm full size headphones._

 


 I've been comparing my P-51, Pico & XM5 with HD 650. I find that my XM5(TI BUF634/AD8065) has slightly more power than either. I've been using medium gain with the P-51 because high doesn't seem to offer any more power. My source was stock 5.5 G iPod. The Pico is nearly equal (might be slightly better) in power to P-51. What impresses me with Pico in high gain is that it doesn't clip/distort at full volume where the P-51 did at approx. 80~85% full volume in medium gain(this was with insane bass heavy electronic). Both sound great but I do prefer the P-51 with HD 650...especially with female vocals. I haven't listened with my 325i enough to decide for sure which I prefer but I'm leaning towards Pico.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

Anyone....Is P51 considered a low-impedance amp or high-impedance amp?

 Thank you


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been comparing my P-51, Pico & XM5 with HD 650. I find that my XM5(TI BUF634/AD8065) has slightly more power than either. I've been using medium gain with the P-51 because high doesn't seem to offer any more power. My source was stock 5.5 G iPod. The Pico is nearly equal (might be slightly better) in power to P-51. What impresses me with Pico in high gain is that it doesn't clip/distort at full volume where the P-51 did at approx. 80~85% full volume in medium gain(this was with insane bass heavy electronic). Both sound great but I do prefer the P-51 with HD 650...especially with female vocals. I haven't listened with my 325i enough to decide for sure which I prefer but I'm leaning towards Pico._

 

Yeah, it's not always about which is louder. The P-51 is loud enough with HD600, and the sound makes up for what it lacks in volume. I almost thought from the first part of your post that you were leading up to some other conclusion.


----------



## kloan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HERE IS THE Mod pics:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5643577

 Here is my post on how to successfully remove the metal shield without strain. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5656376



 Best of luck and please use an smd iron, along with a steady hand._

 

Wow, very cool. Hopefully without sounding like a tool, does the mod affect the headphone out or regular function of the line-out at all?

 I have a 2nd gen, so I dunno if it'd be the same/similar to do this mod...

 Looks cool though!


----------



## -=Germania=-

We need to figure out the 2G as the internals are different: 






 It just affects the line-out. You just use iPod dock connectors with capacitors in them or an external box with film capacitors like this: 





 The one above is the one I made for myself yesterday, but it shows internal shots. It is 4.7uf audiophiler MKP 3% bypassed with Lily 0.05uf PIO (vintage japanese PIO). You could do 2.2uf or 3.3uf, but the 4.7uf makes sure all of the bass comes through easily.


----------



## Permagrin

Wine body with gold endplates











 Question: Is it alright if I start listening to it before it's initially charged? Don't wanna mess anything up but don't really wanna wait till tomorrow to get a feel of it.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Permagrin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wine body with gold endplates











 Question: Is it alright if I start listening to it before it's initially charged? Don't wanna mess anything up but don't really wanna wait till tomorrow to get a feel of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, beautiful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, you can use it while it's charging. (it should take 3 hours max.)


----------



## jamato8

Beautiful color combination. Sure, like stated above, just plug it in, charge and listen at the same time.


----------



## steviebee

Listening to P-51 > iRiver H160 > Ultrasone Proline 750, on medium gain. Moondog's Big Band brass ensemble. 

 Wow, this _is _a sweet little amp. Both P-51 and 750's are pretty new so not many hours on either. Should be superb down the line.

_Nice_, Ray! Should be fun putting the Mustang against my Hornet some time....


----------



## Permagrin

So today I go to the mailbox and what do I see!

 My 5th gen iMod and ALO SXC Cryo cable have arrived:





 Sounds amazing so far with my P51 (7 hours on it so far) and Shure SE530s.

 Here's a more accurate pic of the P-51 wine color as the ones I posted earlier were at night so under flash:






 And yet not a great pic, I'll try to take a better one this weekend.

 Edit: Not to mention my order from Ron Jarzombek came in the mail too: Spastic Ink Compatible and Complete, RJ:SSOTC, and Blotted Science!


----------



## -=Germania=-

iMod/DIY mods are sweeet!

 This is what my system with the Film dock I made for it looks like: 
 - UPOCC silver in cotton wiring everywhere


----------



## jamato8

Nice rig S. 

 I need to pick up some cotton/silk insulation and give it a try.


----------



## jochen.schell

Yesterday I joined the club of P-51 owners having used a Predator before.
 I did not expect that I would be able to hear a difference between these two amps comparing them side by side, but I was.
 I cannot express in words what it is, but the mids do definitively sound better with the Mustang (both amps are fully burned in)

 So I am quite happy with my decision for the change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jochen


----------



## allbald

I am getting a AKG 701 soon and ER-4P. Can anybody comment on how these sound with those? I am torn between getting this for the ER-4P/S or getting a desktop amp for the AKGs.


----------



## GreatDane

I don't like the P-51/ER4 combo. For my tastes, the ER4 needs an amp with a laid back sound which the P-51 is not. I think you'd be happier with the AKG's if you had a desktop amp...unless you need portable.

 The ER4P is easy to drive but will improve with a nice amp...one with impedance and bass boost options is nice.


----------



## Lil' Knight

The ER4 will do better with the Predator or SR71a, IMO.


----------



## allbald

Thanks for the suggestions. I emailed Ray a few days back and he suggested the same thing. I prefer crystal clear clarity (mind you not sibilance) and detail retrieval. I am not a bass head, however, the bass there is I want to be tight and punchy. I listen to pop, metal and female vocals.

 Well the AKGs are more likely to stay at home not sure yet. The ER-4Ps / Audeo Phanksfor travel. (And yes trhe wallet is starting to hurt!)

 I will be using the iphone or the laptop as source. Which brings me up to next point -- what kind of LOD + DAC (for the iphone for poratble use) and DAC (for the laptop) do you guys recommend. I think for the time being I would prefer not to by both a portable Amp and Desktop so I thought getting a really good portable amp would be a good compromise.

 I guess I get concerned when people mention that the SR71a is laid back since to me it almost seems like a code word for dark / veiled. But perhaps my impression is wrong.

 From reading about the P-51 -- it seemed like it fit my tastes hence the post.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allbald* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be using the iphone or the laptop as source. Which brings me up to next point -- what kind of LOD + DAC (for the iphone for poratble use) and DAC (for the laptop) do you guys recommend. I think for the time being I would prefer not to by both a portable Amp and Desktop so I thought getting a really good portable amp would be a good compromise._

 

So you're planning to buy a portable DAC/amp combo?


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you're planning to buy a portable DAC/amp combo?_

 

Not necessarily. The amps I seem to like don't have pre-amps built in.

 So I assume the choice is either directly go to the amp from the iphone or use some sort of LOD from the iphone then possibly use and DAC + Amp, right? Or perhaps I am missing something?


----------



## GreatDane

If using your iPod you don't need a DAC. You would only have access to the analog audio output, hopefully via LOD.

 The DAC/amp combos have analog input and digital input. The digital input will mostly be USB but brands such as iBasso offer coax and optical input also.

 For under $300 it seems that the  iBasso D10 DAC/amp is top choice. You might have seen  this long thread about the D10.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If using your iPod you don't need a DAC. You would only have access to the analog audio output, hopefully via LOD.

 The DAC/amp combos have analog input and digital input. The digital input will mostly be USB but brands such as iBasso offer coax and optical input also.

 For under $300 it seems that the  iBasso D10 DAC/amp is top choice. You might have seen  this long thread about the D10._

 

I think I would prefer to go for the higher quality aamp then. I think I read about the wadia itransport (which is able to bypass the ipod/itouch internal DAC and output a digital stream) and thought there might be something similar in the portable realm but I guess not. A DAC for iphone use would generally be a waste then.

 So back to SR71a vs P-51. The other thing that's nice about the P-51 is the rechargeability which the SR71a doesnt have. Seems pretty annoying.

 I guess the SR71a amp is not considered subjectively better than the P-51 necessarily but rather some people think that its a better fit with brighter sounding IEMs/cans?


----------



## GreatDane

The two 9 volt batteries will cost another $22 or more plus a charger. The advantage with the SR-71A would be more voltage equaling more driving power...not needed with IEMs but would be desired for many full size cans.

 I hope to do my own P-51/ SR-71A comparisons soon if my wallet allows.

 I think you're right about which is better. It will depend on your specific needs(which monitor/s) and sound signature preference.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two 9 volt batteries will cost another $22 or more plus a charger. The advantage with the SR-71A would be more voltage equaling more driving power...not needed with IEMs but would be desired for many full size cans.

 I hope to do my own P-51/ SR-71A comparisons soon if my wallet allows.

 I think you're right about which is better. It will depend on your specific needs(which monitor/s) and sound signature preference._

 

I think jamato8 who started this thread has both (or tested both) and definitely seemed to rank the less expensive P-51 higher, granted though that he has different iem/can preferences.

 Makes it pretty hard to decide since its possible that if let's say the P-51/ER-4P or AKG 702 is could generally be considered bright to most reviewers here vs the SR1a and the same combos. However, it's possible that to my ears bright is normal/neutral. I would definitely say that my tastes probably lean toward bright compared to most folks but how much brighter I like it compared to the average is hard to say.

 Would either of these be able to drive the AKG 702s sufficiently or do you need a more powerful amp?


----------



## GreatDane

I also like a somewhat bright sound...and plenty of bass. I guess i want it all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So the question is: Can these amps drive the 701/702 to a satisfying level? 

 Well, I've only listened to friends 701 and never with portable amps. With not enough experience I will only guess that HD 650 is more demanding and the P-51 does a fine job at low to medium volume...it _almost_ gets there but falls short with bass heavy music at higher(approaching unsafe) listening volume. With my Woo Audio 3 tube amp my ears beg for mercy long before the amp gives out.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also like a somewhat bright sound...and plenty of bass. I guess i want it all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So the question is: Can these amps drive the 701/702 to a satisfying level? 

 Well, I've only listened to friends 701 and never with portable amps. With not enough experience I will only guess that HD 650 is more demanding and the P-51 does a fine job at low to medium volume...it almost gets there but falls short with bass heavy music at higher(approaching unsafe) listening volume. With my Woo Audio 3 tube amp my ears beg for mercy long before the amp gives out._

 

I am going through a lot portable gear changes ( as in I need to start over ). So assuming I get the P-51 and am using it to drive the 702s from a laptop -- what DAC and cables are recommended from a laptop?

 I think when the new iphone comes out -- i'll probably get the ALO cryo 18g stuff from iphone to amp but need to understand better what would be good from a laptop as well including cables?


----------



## jochen.schell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allbald* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be using the iphone or the laptop as source. Which brings me up to next point -- what kind of LOD + DAC (for the iphone for poratble use) and DAC (for the laptop) do you guys recommend._

 

I am using exactly the same sources, but different phones (Westone 3 and Grado RS-1i).
 I started with a Predator because I thought it would be nice to have one tiny amp for all purposes, but I was not too happy with it, especially with the internal DAC (the Predator sounded much better with the iPhone than with my notebook)

 So I went for an external DAC (Devilsound), an external amp (Mustang) and a home amp (EC/SS) and am really happy now.
 For my iPhone I am using a Quables LOD.

 The change was not too good for my wallet but very good for my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From my experiences I would stay away from DAC / amp combinations.
 Some are having a good amp, some are having a good DAC, but in combination ...

 Jochen


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allbald* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going through a lot portable gear changes ( as in I need to start over ). So assuming I get the P-51 and am using it to drive the 702s from a laptop -- what DAC and cables are recommended from a laptop?

 I think when the new iphone comes out -- i'll probably get the ALO cryo 18g stuff from iphone to amp but need to understand better what would be good from a laptop as well including cables?_

 

I can't help but recommend the HeadAmp Pico DAC. At its $350 price I believe you'd have a tough time finding a better option,especially if you want to eliminate the need for external power. I've listened to the Pico DAC and it sounds identical to my Pico DAC/amp combo so I don't agree that a combo like this can't be good, in fact I think the amp section sounds great.


 *HeadAmp Pico DAC*

 The cables you'd need for a USB DAC like the Pico would be either a 3.5mm to 3.5mm or stereo RCA to 3.5mm. You probably already have a USB Mini-B cable for connection to the laptop.


----------



## Permagrin

Here's 2 more pics of the wine/gold combo in real light with no flash. My previous pics may have misrepresented the true colors of the amp.











 Although depending on the viewing angle from the light source it will appear to be a much darker wine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Oh and I really love this little thing! One of the things that amazes me is that the volume of playback has no factor on the perceived information delivered. I can listen at a very minimal volume and still appreciate all of the aspects of the music when through other mediums it would require probably a moderate volume (If that makes any sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Thanks again Ray!


----------



## GreatDane

Permagrin, 

 The Wine color looks very close to your other two pics. It actually looks like a dark red. I like that color combo. I was going to ask if you're listening with Grados which have that low listening level detail retrieval with many amps but I read your profile. I agree though and I think the P-51/HD 650 combo is great.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't help but recommend the HeadAmp Pico DAC. At its $350 price I believe you'd have a tough time finding a better option,especially if you want to eliminate the need for external power. I've listened to the Pico DAC and it sounds identical to my Pico DAC/amp combo so I don't agree that a combo like this can't be good, in fact I think the amp section sounds great.


 *HeadAmp Pico DAC*

 The cables you'd need for a USB DAC like the Pico would be either a 3.5mm to 3.5mm or stereo RCA to 3.5mm. You probably already have a USB Mini-B cable for connection to the laptop._

 

Thanks Jochen and Greatdane for the info. Helps clear up cable confusion for me!!!

 So as far as relatively small DACs go Pico sounds like a good option. I don't hear much about the Benchmark DAC1 on this forum (also has a built in amp which I am not sure people like). Is it mainly because the cost is so high comparatively to other desktop options?


----------



## Edward Ng

It's a lot more money, and it is not portable, two knocks against it. I own a Benchmark DAC1 as well as the P-51 Mustang, and also a Nuforce Icon Mobile and a very old Headroom Total Bithead. The Benchmark DAC1 is in my eyes an excellent value for overall sound quality and easily contributes to the great sound of my speaker setup here at home (lossless audio via S/PDIF from my PC to the DAC1, then from the DAC1 to a PS Audio Control Amp, driving a pair of JM Labs speakers). Its DAC is easily superior to that of the Total Bithead and the Icon Mobile, but I have to say that there may be better synergy between the P-51 Mustang and Westone IEMs than between the DAC1's amp with the Westone IEMs. That being said, DAC1 still gives stellar sound in comparison, and it may simply be that the DAC1's headphone out is less, "colored," than the Mustang's, and the Mustang's colorization happens to suit Westone 3 and Westone UM3X particularly well--I actually prefer listening to the Westone IEMs via the P-51 Mustang being fed by the DAC1's line out with a CablePro Ear Candy RCA stereo to mini cable than straight from the DAC1's own headphone out!

 -Ed


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allbald* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank Jochen and Greatdane for the info. Help clear up cable confusion for me!!!

 So as far as relatively small DACs go Pico sounds like a good option. I don't here much about the Benchmark DAC1 on this forum (also has a built in amp which I am not sure people like). Is it mainly because the cost is so high comparatively to other desktop options?_

 

I'm glad to have helped, if only a little bit. I am aware of the Benchmark but I have no experience with it. It is a respected high-end option but my simple needs never lead me to go that far. A couple years ago I was searching for a low price option for a desktop DAC and I found the PreSonus Central Station which has served me well.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad to have helped, if only a little bit. I am aware of the Benchmark but I have no experience with it. It is a respected high-end option but my simple needs never lead me to go that far. A couple years ago I was searching for a low price option for a desktop DAC and I found the PreSonus Central Station which has served me well._

 

No I understand. I am more in the boat of how much is appropriate to spend. If you get down to it, the separate DAC + Amp (and cables -argh) -- in my example lets say pico + P-51 is about $725 already, whereas the cheapest Becnhmark is at $995 (a bit less on audiogon). However the ones with USB in option is alot more still.

 p.s. -- by the way headroom has 15% off on headphones if you answer a survey for them -- got 15% off the ER-4p and AKG 702 -- which made the ER-4p cheaper than normal and the AKG about market price).


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edward Ng* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a lot more money, and it is not portable, two knocks against it. I own a Benchmark DAC1 as well as the P-51 Mustang, and also a Nuforce Icon Mobile and a very old Headroom Total Bithead. The Benchmark DAC1 is in my eyes an excellent value for overall sound quality and easily contributes to the great sound of my speaker setup here at home (lossless audio via S/PDIF from my PC to the DAC1, then from the DAC1 to a PS Audio Control Amp, driving a pair of JM Labs speakers). Its DAC is easily superior to that of the Total Bithead and the Icon Mobile, but I have to say that there may be better synergy between the P-51 Mustang and Westone IEMs than between the DAC1's amp with the Westone IEMs. That being said, DAC1 still gives stellar sound in comparison, and it may simply be that the DAC1's headphone out is less, "colored," than the Mustang's, and the Mustang's colorization happens to suit Westone 3 and Westone UM3X particularly well--I actually prefer listening to the Westone IEMs via the P-51 Mustang being fed by the DAC1's line out with a CablePro Ear Candy RCA stereo to mini cable than straight from the DAC1's own headphone out!

 -Ed_

 

I have a big speaker rig of bel canto pre3 + bel canto mon ref 1000s + triangle speakers so this is more for semi portable use.

 I think I keep thinking about how important portability is. Like how willing I will be to carry all this extra gear (dac + amp) around for an iphone source.

 I have been looking at the different Benchmarks and I am not sure other than the USB input on the more expensive models what the difference is? Since they all have a built in amp -- they must all have a pre-amp of some sort by default right? Trying to understand the differences between the one from 2004 and the one from 2008.

 But bottom line seems to be that you like the DAC1's dac/preamp capabilties enough to feed your portable IEMs and your full size home rig.


----------



## -=Germania=-

I definately prefer the P-51 over the SR-71a for the headphones that I listen to. All of my headphones have less than 50ohms of impedance. I do at times wish that the P-51 could put out more current. It doesn't sound as good as my super tweaked millett with my on-head headphones. That is comparing home amps to portable which isn't always entirely valid. 

 I still fully support my experience in August when I heard the prototype. Immediately, I told Ray I wanted to be first on the list and he hadn't even given a price range.

 I have never owned a portable amp for as long as I have had this one and it does get used for hours every day. It is the ONLY piece of stock sound equipment that I own. Literally.


----------



## allbald

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definately prefer the P-51 over the SR-71a for the headphones that I listen to. All of my headphones have less than 50ohms of impedance. I do at times wish that the P-51 could put out more current. It doesn't sound as good as my super tweaked millett with my on-head headphones. That is comparing home amps to portable which isn't always entirely valid. 

 I still fully support my experience in August when I heard the prototype. Immediately, I told Ray I wanted to be first on the list and he hadn't even given a price range.

 I have never owned a portable amp for as long as I have had this one and it does get used for hours every day. It is the ONLY piece of stock sound equipment that I own. Literally._

 

Must say I am always impressed with folks who understand enough electronics to roll their own audio gear!

 I suspect that I would like the P-51s as well, even though I tend to like neutral/bright sounding headphones/IEMs (ER-4p andd 702s). 

 It's a bummer that their is no portable solution yet for bypassing the iphone's DAC (we need a portable version of the wadia itransport).


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definately prefer the P-51 over the SR-71a for the headphones that I listen to. All of my headphones have less than 50ohms of impedance. I do at times wish that the P-51 could put out more current. It doesn't sound as good as my super tweaked millett with my on-head headphones. That is comparing home amps to portable which isn't always entirely valid. 

 I still fully support my experience in August when I heard the prototype. Immediately, I told Ray I wanted to be first on the list and he hadn't even given a price range.

 I have never owned a portable amp for as long as I have had this one and it does get used for hours every day. It is the ONLY piece of stock sound equipment that I own. Literally._

 

P-51 puts out 250ma of current, per channel, which is equal to all those amps that use BUF634 buffer as an output stage. 
 Ray Samuels


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P-51 puts out 250ma of current, per channel, which is equal to all those amps that use BUF634 buffer as an output stage. 
 Ray Samuels_

 

At what impedance? Thanks in advance. BTW, I do love my P-51.


----------



## -=Germania=-

If you use the SDK version of OS3 for iPhone..... yeah there is. I have been having fun with my little DIY and a friends iPhone. though, most of teh time I use it with a USB dongle and walk around with it. Right now it is my main DAC

 I hope to have a working version of the final thing in about 2-3months that does digital out, but I can't seem to find a tiny DAC design that I like as a potential pair. Might just buy a D10. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *allbald* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Must say I am always impressed with folks who understand enough electronics to roll their own audio gear!

 I suspect that I would like the P-51s as well, even though I tend to like neutral/bright sounding headphones/IEMs (ER-4p andd 702s). 

 It's a bummer that their is no portable solution yet for bypassing the iphone's DAC (we need a portable version of the wadia itransport)._


----------



## CooLy_oNE

Just got my P51..It really improve the SQ of my sennheiser HD 485, but not much with my UM3X..I got a quick question tough..how can I now what gain to use? what is the difference between each mode?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CooLy_oNE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my P51..It really improve the SQ of my sennheiser HD 485, but not much with my UM3X..I got a quick question tough..how can I now what gain to use? what is the difference between each mode?_

 

I've found that medium gain works best for my PFE IEM and HD 650. I like to be able to use the volume knob at around 1 o'clock at near my maximum loudness.

 Just experiment, there is no universal correct answer for which gain setting to use.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I use medium gain with everything from 124 db/mw ES3X to HD600.


----------



## jamato8

Medium gain is what I seem to have it on all the time. Works with everything I have tried and gives me a good range on the volume control.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use medium gain with everything from 124 db/mw ES3X to HD600._

 

How about westone 3? so any gain we used will not break our headphone or IEM? so I can just experiment with it?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CooLy_oNE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about westone 3? so any gain we used will not break our headphone or IEM? so I can just experiment with it?_

 

You would damage your hearing after getting a bad headache long before any damage to the IEM I think. 

 The advantage of the low gain setting is to allow a larger range of volume rotation for sensitive monitors...so you don't get blasted with a slight clockwise turn.

 I recommend starting with low gain for any IEM.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

What is the sign of "need burn-in" with P51-mustang? My mustang has 50 hours burn-in, but it muddy the high/treble vocal of my westone 3, compared to headphone jack..is because it needs more burn-in or it is just how P51 sounds?


----------



## -=Germania=-

100hours, then draw your conclusions.

 I posted a breakdown a while ago.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CooLy_oNE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the sign of "need burn-in" with P51-mustang? My mustang has 50 hours burn-in, but it muddy the high/treble vocal of my westone 3, compared to headphone jack..is because it needs more burn-in or it is just how P51 sounds?_

 

What source are you using the P-51 with? Are your W3 muddy in the high/treble with other sources? What tips are you using with the W3? Do you have the W3 pushed too deep into your ears, because

 I don't know how many hours my P-51 has since I bought it used, but mine is certainly not muddy, but my W3 have never been muddy either unless I push them too deep into my ears. I have to insert the W3 just deep enough to seal and stay in place, but not too deep.


----------



## Jian

Hi, has any one tried the p-51 as a preamp to a desk top amp? Just read some old posts talking about portable amps working as preamps.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=small]Equipment:[/size] *

*Tried with 4 diff LODs: * * All UPOCC Quality* ( 1. Unique Solid Copper structure using microporous Teflon 6 wire | 2. Solid Silver in Natural Medical Grade thin Teflon 5 wire | 3. Multiple gauge combination of solid Copper in clear Teflon, solid Silver in Natural Teflon, and stranded Copper in PE - 6 wire | 4. Stranded Copper in PE and Solid silver in Natural teflon - 7 wire) 

*RCA Cables:* UPPOCC Silver in Cotton, UPOCC Copper in Teflon

*Headphones:* ESW9 with mods and 6 strand silver/copper recable, CD1000 with mods and UPOCC 6 wire recable. Recabled silver/copper FreqShow.

*Sources:* iPod Touch w/ Apple Lossless, Marantz/Auzen -> Modded Zhaolu 2.5 w/Passive Output Stage

*Pre-amp:* Yamaha CA-600 Pre-amp outs (superb, noiseless, fully discrete pre-amp)


*[size=small]Sound:[/size] *

*0 Hour:*
 w/ALL: Flat, bassy, very odd soundstage (cymbals hit in the right locations, but vocals are right up against the ear drum), performs best with the “Six Special” to fix the soundstage.

*1 Hour:* Imaging settling. Sonics evening, more detail.

 ....
_

 

It has been a very interesting audio journey listening to my P-51while it is being burnt-in with a map in hand and knowing what to expect next. I am at my ~45 hours mark and looking forward to the "Very sweet sound" at Hour 58. Liking what I hear so far. This is going to be my travel mate.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has been a very interesting audio journey listening to my P-51while it is being burnt-in with a map in hand and knowing what to expect next. I am at my ~45 hours mark and looking forward to the "Very sweet sound" at Hour 58. Liking what I hear so far. This is going to be my travel mate._

 

The Mustang is very good with the Ed.9 and the ESW10JPN, isn't it ?


----------



## jamato8

It works fine with them.


----------



## geremy

stupid stupid question: I am considering ordering a P-51 (or waiting for the shadow, but honestly I like volume knobs). I see many pictures of the P-51 but not of the included accessories. I understand it has a charger brick the converts AC to 5V DC. Since USB also outputs 5V DC, I am wondering if there is a cable available to plug the P-51 into a USB port for charging. That way if I am traveling I don't have to lug around the power supply. USB doesn't output much current, so it will probably take longer to charge, but I am OK with that.

 Thanks.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *geremy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stupid stupid question: I am considering ordering a P-51 (or waiting for the shadow, but honestly I like volume knobs). I see many pictures of the P-51 but not of the included accessories. I understand it has a charger brick the converts AC to 5V DC. Since USB also outputs 5V DC, I am wondering if there is a cable available to plug the P-51 into a USB port for charging. That way if I am traveling I don't have to lug around the power supply. USB doesn't output much current, so it will probably take longer to charge, but I am OK with that.

 Thanks._

 

Don't know about the USB thing, but be it known that the 'Stang goes a LONG time on a single charge. DAYS actually driving my HD650s when I was breaking in my new APS cable running night and day. So, for couple-of-days travel, you won't need a charger anyhow! If you use it for a handful of hours per day, say 4-6, you could probably be set for a week, of course depending on which cans you use! I still cannot believe how strong and long-lasting that tiny little amp is.

 That being said, it would be nice to know about the USB...


----------



## Permagrin

Not a stupid question at all, the P-51 does include a AC to 5V DC converter. Referencing the model # of the brick I find that it's a 2.1mm jack so you should be able to use this: Item#6025 (First one I found, not affiliated at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Edit: If someone could chime in and verify this that would be great! Don't have a caliper handy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to also take this moment and say how much I've fallen in love with my P-51 since it's nearly burnt in I think. Sound is crisp but warm and yet true (that's how I feel anyway). Thanks again Ray!


----------



## jc9394

I have used my Mustang driving W3 for over two weeks with 4-6 hours per day.


----------



## geremy

Permagrin: Thanks! That is great info. That Cable looks ideal!


----------



## geremy

Reading up on the Predator, it cautions not to use a different charger because the stock one automatically shuts off when the battery is full. I would imagine it is the same with the mustang, so you risk overheating/battery explosion with the USB cable (probably).


----------



## LeeSC

I did a check on both Predator and P51's charger. They are the same. They have the same power output (voltage and amp). In fact, the same model number. If the safety circuit is built in on the charger, you should use the designated charger and do not use the USB as power supply to charge it. Both Predator and P51 have Lithium batteries. Bad thing will happen if over charge.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mustang is very good with the Ed.9 and the ESW10JPN, isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yes, very very additive. Just want to listen to it more.... I actually have not got a chance with my Ed. 9 yet. Have been on the move too much and I don't like to bring the Ed. 9 along. The Mustang is very potable.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, very very additive. Just want to listen to it more.... I actually have not got a chance with my Ed. 9 yet. Have been on the move too much and I don't like to bring the Ed. 9 along. The Mustang is very potable._

 

Yeah I know. The Mustang is very good to "improve" the mids of the Edition 9.


----------



## jamato8

I have to say that listening to this amp is nothing but enjoyable. For me it brings music to life giving it dimension and substance.


----------



## Fred Flintstone

Is it practical to use the P-51 with the HD800's or is this crazy? I'd really like to take these phones portable.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fred Flintstone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it practical to use the P-51 with the HD800's or is this crazy? I'd really like to take these phones portable._

 

Well, now that is an interesting portable rig. 

 It drives the HD650's fine and if the HD800's drive about the same I don't see why not. I mean it isn't a home amp but it is a great little amp that surprises many with its ability to reach high in the audio spectrum.

 Send them to me and I will do give you some first hand feedback.


----------



## Mikey01

Moved.....See thread David vs Golith.


----------



## Radio_head

.


----------



## Radio_head

.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Radio_head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an esw9 and a (soon to be markl modded) d5000. Would the p-51 have the best synergy of the Ray samuels portable amps? Are there any other portables out there that would be more fitting? (in other words, can the p51 do the d5000 justice?)_

 

Yes it can do the D5000 justice - it is a good match other than the D5000 make poor portable headphones. It's really good with my ESW10JPN.


----------



## Mikey01




----------



## rasmushorn

Now THAT is a beauty!


----------



## Radio_head

bought and sold.  Not so great in hindsight.


----------



## jamato8

If you like reggae, and I enjoy Tosh, Cliff and a few others, the bass delivery is excellent and nothing gets congested.


----------



## Serafim

Its not a huge problem, but sometimes when i leave it on burn-in and today as i walked outside, the amp shuts down and wouldnt come on again.

 The light was dead and it wouldnt work until i plug it into the charger, and it comes to life again if i flick the switch. Happened a few times now.

 Anyone have a clue or similiar experience?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serafim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its not a huge problem, but sometimes when i leave it on burn-in and today as i walked outside, the amp shuts down and wouldnt come on again.

 The light was dead and it wouldnt work until i plug it into the charger, and it comes to life again if i flick the switch. Happened a few times now.

 Anyone have a clue or similiar experience?_

 

Well, the way you described the problem sounds like you ran the battery down. Are you saying that it does this even when the battery hasn't been drained to empty? In other words, is it shutting down/locking-up with plenty of juice in the battery, and then you have to plug it in and cycle the power switch before you regain control of it again?


----------



## Radio_head

.


----------



## LFC_SL

I've been reading the threads on head-fi a good few months with great interest. I am always amazed by the Tomahawk. The Graham Slee Novo I had on loan for two weeks was on a par with it at most. The T115 is better than the headphone out on my CA 520A stereo amp feeding my S30 book shelfs. And to read that a smaller package improves upon it

 Of course the T115 will be my first and last portable amp. I would rather explore the desktop RSA range


----------



## Nuge

I currently have the ES7+ibasso D10 and I love this combination. The highs are nice and sparkly, the mids are slightly frontal(but not Grado-ish frontal) and the bass and nice and tight with GREAT impact. I want to upgrade eventually and I heard the ESW10JPN is a great upgrade since it is more detailed and clearer. however, I did hear that highs are less sparkly and the lows are somewhat less tight. Would using the mustang with the ESW10JPN help increase the sparkle in its highs and tighten the bass? Can anyone comment, in general, about how the ESW10JPN sounds with the mustang? Thanks!


----------



## Radio_head

.


----------



## robshead

I've recently purchased a P51 to pair with my (also new) D5000's. Both were burned in 200 hrs+. Although the mids and transparency are truly amazing as has been well reported, the bass seems somewhat lean (not an obvious trait of theD5000's for sure). With the amp set at mid-gain, I typically need 50-75% volume to really drive the D5000's; higher than I would have expected. Current limitations of the P51?

 Might the SR71A be a better choice with the D5000's? Other recommendations?


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robshead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've recently purchased a P51 to pair with my (also new) D5000's. Both were burned in 200 hrs+. Although the mids and transparency are truly amazing as has been well reported, the bass seems somewhat lean (not an obvious trait of theD5000's for sure). With the amp set at mid-gain, I typically need 50-75% volume to really drive the D5000's; higher than I would have expected. Current limitations of the P51?

 Might the SR71A be a better choice with the D5000's? Other recommendations?_

 

If the bass is lean, it's either your source or your gain source. It's definitely not the D5000s.


----------



## xxblyxx

Just got my P51 Mustang from Ray, and boy is this thing small. I just want to give Ray and his staff props for their service and communication with the order. Can't wait till I get home. Gotta find a way to explain to the wifey how this came about.


----------



## ruknd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xxblyxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my P51 Mustang from Ray, and boy is this thing small. I just want to give Ray and his staff props for their service and communication with the order. Can't wait till I get home. Gotta find a way to explain to the wifey how this came about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can I ask why this over the Shadow? I am going back and forth between the two and it's making my head hurt.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xxblyxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my P51 Mustang from Ray, and boy is this thing small. I just want to give Ray and his staff props for their service and communication with the order. Can't wait till I get home. Gotta find a way to explain to the wifey how this came about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wait 'till you see the Shadow!! Now that's small....!


----------



## xxblyxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruknd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I ask why this over the Shadow? I am going back and forth between the two and it's making my head hurt._

 

Well, as you can see with my low post count, I'm not an audiophile expert by any means. But relying on this forum for user inputs and reviews. One of the main reason for choosing the P51 was the three gain settings. I have a pair of Shure IEMS (don't know which model, spent about ~$175 for them) and recently a pair of AT-ESW9 <cheers>. From my understanding, with the gain settings I can "tune" it to the two sets of headphones. Of course, this is my newbie understanding of gain settings. I could be absolutely wrong about this.

 Secondly, from the reviews, this amp has great "synergy" with the ESW9. I wanted to hear the difference between this amp and my Altoids CMOY Amp.

 But I do like the fact that the Shadow has a USB input for charging. One less AC adapter to lug around for my travels. And plus, I like the good ole analog knob for volume control.


----------



## B[van]

anyone tried the p51 with the er4 yet?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B[van]* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone tried the p51 with the er4 yet?_

 

Yes - and it sounds great! I just think my ER-4S sounds a bit more involving and with a bit more air and punch with the iBasso D10 with stock OPamps.


----------



## froboy272

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robshead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've recently purchased a P51 to pair with my (also new) D5000's. Both were burned in 200 hrs+. Although the mids and transparency are truly amazing as has been well reported, the bass seems somewhat lean (not an obvious trait of theD5000's for sure). With the amp set at mid-gain, I typically need 50-75% volume to really drive the D5000's; higher than I would have expected. Current limitations of the P51?

 Might the SR71A be a better choice with the D5000's? Other recommendations?_

 

do you guys feel that the d5000's require an amp with 9v current to drive them best?

 EDIT: I'v read through a ton of this thread and i cant find one... does anyone have a picture of a mustang with or compared to an ipod nano?


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Radio_head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had these for a couple months now and I am very pleased with the quality they've shown. They've done great with my esw9's, my d5000's, and even my edition 9's. Although I'm probably setting my sights on the pico slim as opposed to the shadow, I've been amazed by what Ray Samuels did in the p-51 in its combination of portability and ability to drive real headphones (albeit with somewhat low impedance.)_

 

that sounds great, can the mustang really drive the low frequencies of your denon 5000? the predator had trouble with mine, however my preadotr sounds much better after long burn, but i astill have to recheck with my denon as last time it couldnt fully suffice the denon lows


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

have you compared the mustang to the predator(fully burned) , and is there much power difference?
 how the bass and overall wwarmth compare?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *froboy272* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you guys feel that the d5000's require an amp with 9v current to drive them best?

 EDIT: I'v read through a ton of this thread and i cant find one... does anyone have a picture of a mustang with or compared to an ipod nano?_

 

I think the P-51 has enough juice for the D5000, and almost but not quite enough for the HD600. The P-51 does seem to have slightly more power than my Predator, although I thought they were spec'd the same. 

 Now, if you were getting HD600/650 then the 9v SR-71a would be more important because high impedance phones need the voltage swing more than they need current.


----------



## froboy272

thank you!


----------



## kayser

Does anybody know where I can find the RSA Mustang technical specifications?


----------



## jamato8

I would email RSA and ask the questions though I would imagine right now they are very busy with the release of the Protector.


----------



## kayser

I already emailed them and asked about technical specifications and about shipping cost. Well, they replied me, answering only my second question.


----------



## neco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kayser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already emailed them and asked about technical specifications and about shipping cost. Well, they replied me, answering only my second question._

 

I've been looking for the specifications as well however from what I've read Ray Samuels doesn't have much of this information about his amps out in the public.


----------



## kayser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray Samuels doesn't have much of this information about his amps out in the public._

 

And what is the reason?


----------



## tnmike1

with his reputation, build quality and overall amp performance he doesn't need to release information about the guts of the amp. The same reason he paints over the identity of the opamps and other electronic guts.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kayser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already emailed them and asked about technical specifications and about shipping cost. Well, they replied me, answering only my second question._

 

P-51, Mustang, Specs.

 50 K input impedance.
 5 ohms-300 Ohms output impedance.
 250ma per channel drive capability.
 rail to rail input/output voltage swing.
 Freq. response, 5hz-100K
 No caps in the signal path.
 72 hours of play back using IEMs from single charge.
 3.7-4.2 volts Lithium ion powered
 Charging time about 2 hours.
 Dimensions...
 1.5" width
 2.25" length
 .7" hight.
 about 4-5 Oz weight.

 RSA


----------



## kayser

Thanks a lot, Ray!


----------



## jamato8

So there you go. :^)


----------



## sluker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the P-51 has enough juice for the D5000, and almost but not quite enough for the HD600. The P-51 does seem to have slightly more power than my Predator, although I thought they were spec'd the same. 

 Now, if you were getting HD600/650 then the 9v SR-71a would be more important because high impedance phones need the voltage swing more than they need current.




_

 

Has anyone tried the P-51 with the 701's, how well will it drive them?


----------



## neco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P-51, Mustang, Specs.

 50 K input impedance.
 5 ohms-300 Ohms output impedance.
 250ma per channel drive capability.
 rail to rail input/output voltage swing.
 Freq. response, 5hz-100K
 No caps in the signal path.
 72 hours of play back using IEMs from single charge.
 3.7-4.2 volts Lithium ion powered
 Charging time about 2 hours.
 Dimensions...
 1.5" width
 2.25" length
 .7" hight.
 about 4-5 Oz weight.

 RSA_

 

Would someone mind explaining some of these specs? Does this mean the amp can't run 600 ohm headphones since it has "5 ohms-300 Ohms output impedance". It is "3.7-4.2 volts Lithium ion powered" so this mean the SR-71A has more voltage swing potential since it has 18V?


----------



## Randius

I wish to ask if the Mustang gives significant improvement in SQ over the iBasso D10 with topkit? And does the Mustang have good synergy with the Ortofon e-Q7?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Randius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish to ask if the Mustang gives significant improvement in SQ over the iBasso D10 with topkit? And does the Mustang have good synergy with the Ortofon e-Q7?_

 

I have a D10 with a Topkit with BG caps. Compared with my RSA Tomahawk or my Headamp Pico, the differences are not night and day, or significant.


----------



## Adamus00

Does anyone know, how does it sound with Shure SRH-840 ? I use it with Sony NWZ-X1050.


----------



## Mochan

I just "graduated" to a P51 Mustang and so far not particularly impressed just yet. I got a 2nd hand unit with 500 hours on it so no further burn in required. I guess I have to adjust my brain to its sound for a bit.
   
  So far my initial impression is that it's not that much different from my GoVibe Petite or from the iBasso Mamba. The real weakness is that it doesn't have a DAC... but that means I can combo it with a uDAC or whatever. 
   
  The nice thing is that it's even smaller than the Petite, and a lot lighter because it uses a Li-Ion batt instead of the quad AAA setup on the Petite. 
   
  I really like that it drives my HD650 happily... but I'm someone who was happy with how the FiiO E5 drove the HD650.
   
  So far not sure if it's money well spent. I guess my ears aren't good enough to appreciate the differences. I mean, they sound really punchy compared to the E5, but the Petite was also quite punchy and very forward and aggressive. 
   
  Testing it with a variety of headphones for now to see how they respond to different kinds like the AD700, HD650, DT770, TF10 etc. Hopefully these will grow on me, else I'll return to my seller. But I'm not appreciating it so much so far.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mochan said:


> I just "graduated" to a P51 Mustang and so far not particularly impressed just yet. I got a 2nd hand unit with 500 hours on it so no further burn in required. I guess I have to adjust my brain to its sound for a bit.
> 
> So far my initial impression is that it's not that much different from my GoVibe Petite or from the iBasso Mamba. The real weakness is that it doesn't have a DAC... but that means I can combo it with a uDAC or whatever.
> 
> ...


 

 I think you will begin to appreciate the additional micro-detail and spaciousness when listening to the P-51, if your source is resolving enough or your music files are high enough resolution to send the extra information to the amp.  I had a few amps with a similar sound signature, but the conveyance of the realism of the performance always sunk in as better with the P-51 as I listened over time.


----------



## Mochan

Yeah, I think it's something I have to spend time on to really appreciate. Not sure my wallet is gonna appreciate it though, but such are the sacrifices we make in this hobby. 
   
  My problem is that my source is not so good, I don't have a decent DAC, but I did try this super el-cheapo DAC we have locally (costs about $4US -- but it sounds really good believe it or not).
   
  Using FLAC Dave Matthew's Band on Foobar, I think I have a good source player and source music, just need a better DAC I guess to really get the details to the amp.
   
  I'll spend more time with this before I decide whether it was worth all the money or not. It's definitely better than the E5, and I do like it better than the Petite, but the differences fall sharply into the "diminishing returns" category considering it's about 3x the price I paid for the Petite and 10x that of the E5.


----------



## Jian

I've been using p51 for a year or so, the best buy I've ever made. Now thinking of upgrading my headphones. Does anyone know that if it works with ed8? Cheers!


----------



## Region2

When I moved from the FiiO E5 to the P51, I heard a huge improvement.  It felt like I was listening to my head phones on my home rig.
   
  One of the most marked improvements were with the K271's.  I had almost no bass and it was a bit tinny, but with the P51 I heard a huge improvement in the low end and a much fuller sound.


----------



## sdotfire

I received my P51 Mustang from HeadphoneAddict almost two weeks ago, and all I have to say is WOW.  They make even my cheapest IEM's sound incredible...they make my Beats by Dre Studios go from about a 3/10 to an 8.5 seriously.  This is an amazing little amp that should not be overlooked.  I think it may be one of, if not, the best amps for IEM's on the market.  The battery life is incredible, now I am glad I didn't go with the SR71A..., and the mids improvement is the best of any portable amp I have yet to try.  The soundstage is at least doubled, along with the enhancement to the highs and lows....absolutely incredible.  If this amp can make my Studios sound like this, I wonder what they would do to a much higher impedence OEM.  Anyways, the day I bought this amp I called Ray and expressed my amazement with his product.  I have the Arrow 12HE on the way, and have a few other amps to compare it to, but for portability this is one of the best out there.  Especially for universal IEM's, which at this point is all I own.  I have grown extremely attached to my P51 and feel like SkyLab's impressions were spot on.  I was only using a cheap Japanese-made LOD when I first got this amp and was using mainly my iPhone 3G-S and iPod 160G 6G when I first received this little gem.  Even then it was like night and day, I was so impressed that I showed a lot of friends and family, who not too audio savy, even they could tell an improvement.  This little amp is truly a marvel, I can't wait to get my PicoSlim and Arrow to do a direct comparison but for the time being I am perfectly content.  By the way, HeadphoneAddict is an amazing person to deal with when purchasing or selling anything, I HIGHLY recommend him and this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sdotfire said:


> I received my P51 Mustang from HeadphoneAddict almost two weeks ago, and all I have to say is WOW.  They make even my cheapest IEM's sound incredible...they make my Beats by Dre Studios go from about a 3/10 to an 8.5 seriously.  This is an amazing little amp that should not be overlooked.  I think it may be one of, if not, the best amps for IEM's on the market.  The battery life is incredible, now I am glad I didn't go with the SR71A..., and the mids improvement is the best of any portable amp I have yet to try.  The soundstage is at least doubled, along with the enhancement to the highs and lows....absolutely incredible.  If this amp can make my Studios sound like this, I wonder what they would do to a much higher impedence OEM.  Anyways, the day I bought this amp I called Ray and expressed my amazement with his product.  I have the Arrow 12HE on the way, and have a few other amps to compare it to, but for portability this is one of the best out there.  Especially for universal IEM's, which at this point is all I own.  I have grown extremely attached to my P51 and feel like SkyLab's impressions were spot on.  I was only using a cheap Japanese-made LOD when I first got this amp and was using mainly my iPhone 3G-S and iPod 160G 6G when I first received this little gem.  Even then it was like night and day, I was so impressed that I showed a lot of friends and family, who not too audio savy, even they could tell an improvement.  This little amp is truly a marvel, I can't wait to get my PicoSlim and Arrow to do a direct comparison but for the time being I am perfectly content.  By the way, HeadphoneAddict is an amazing person to deal with when purchasing or selling anything, I HIGHLY recommend him and this amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm glad everything worked out for you.  The P-51 was my favorite portable amp until I got the Protector to listen to my JH13pro and HD600 in balanced mode off the Macbook, and the Slim for my ES3X in my portable rig.  Between these two amps, I get enough variation in sound, power and size to match just about all my phones and mobile needs.  But the P-51 strikes a happy balance between the two in all those areas.  I'll be posting more impressions of the Protector and Slim in the other threads over time, so I'll try to not go off topic here.  I do miss the P-51, as it was a great jack of all trades and master of some (as opposed to none).


----------



## Mochan

After some more quality time with the Mustang, I've come to appreciate just a little more of their greatness, but I still don't think they're worth the price of admission.
   
  The mids on these are really nice. They get fuller and more substantial though strangely without adding much weight. Unlike using the FiiO E5 or the P4 where lots of "meat' and "weight" are added to the sound, this one still sounds lean, clean and squeaky while being suitably more substantial. It's an amazing dichotomy and strangely appealing.
   
  The soundstage sounds wider but isn't a night and day improvement.
   
  What I really appreciate is the build quality and battery life of this unit, been playing with them for 3 days now and haven't had the need to charge them at all. And I even left them on overnight by mistake. Battery life reminds me of the Petite, definitely comparable to it.
   
  All in all I think it's a more refined version of the Petite, with less meat and emphasis on the bass but same aggressive, forward, punchy nature. And much cleaner. And much more expensive. 
   
  I can recommend this to anyone who has the dough for it. Me... I do have the dough for it... but having second thoughts sending it that way. I think my money could be better spent elsewhere.


----------



## Jalo

I think if you live with the P51 for couple of years like I did, you will appreciate it more than just four five days with it.  I am missing the P51 sound already now that I am using the Protector.  In a way, I felt the P51 is better than the Protector in terms of mid range, vocal, and fun factor.  That's why I am still holding on to the P51 and not selling it.


----------



## Wildcard30

I purchased a used P-51 with 160 hrs on it and did not care for the sound compared to my 600+ hr Hornet M but after 300 hrs I am really loving it I can't wait to reach 400 on this great little amp.


----------



## Yale

My 2c...
  Had my P51 for about a year now. Have run everything from PX100s to SE530 to Ed8 through it. Found it to be neutral, good mid-range and decent bass. Sources used include Nano, iMod, Macbook and iPad all in WAV. All work equally well, though SQ is particularly good with iPad. Made some comparisons with RSA Shadow. The latter didn't have the same power, clarity and soundstage IMO. Would highly recommend it, only thing missing would be a DAC for which one can get from the Predator. Would love to try the ALO RX....


----------



## castlevania32

hi there i recently acquired a rsa p-51 but i have a problem, when i turn the volume loud the bass becomes scratchy, like their broken or fall appart, but the mid and the high stays ok.
  I tested it with different source (computer and mp3) and outpout ( k701 and hifiman Re0 iem's) and cables, but the result is still the same so i assume its the amp. I use the "high" swtich for the headpones and mid/low for the iem's but it doesn't change the problem.


----------



## jamato8

Does it do it at all volumes or just when you turn it up to a louder setting?


----------



## castlevania32

only when i turn up the volume, first the bass become "scratchy" and at max level it doesn't feel like bass anymore


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote: 





castlevania32 said:


> only when i turn up the volume, first the bass become "scratchy" and at max level it doesn't feel like bass anymore


 


 P-51 was not designed to drive the AKG71
  It was designed to drive the low impedance phones & IEMs.
  Ray


----------



## castlevania32

.


----------



## torqiet

have been using a 2nd hand P51 for a few months now..around 400-500hrs.  paired with my ipod, it is amazing. much improvement in clarity, separation, and details. cant say the same when i pair it with my sansa fuze though..any suggestions on how to make it work?


----------



## marvinong

[size=medium]Hi head-fi!
   
  Just wanted to ask this question since I'm planning to get an amp either from RSA or iBasso.
   
  The question is, if my source is already powerful enough to drive my IEMs (JH16s) should I still amp it?

 Would I notice any discernible difference from them versus my unamped set-up?
   
  My potential amps are:
   
  1. RSA Shadow
  2. RSA Protector
  3. iBasso D10
  4. iBasso Toucan
   
  and my set-up is:
   
  COWON J3 + JH 16 Pro
   

   
  ANY help would be appreciated!
   
  Thank you all so much!
   ​[/size]


----------



## jamato8

Good question. So many opinions and then there are your ears of course. Do you want to go balanced or single ended? You can get a great balanced cable from Whiplash Audio in Twag cable. Or it can be single ended. Or have an adapter made and you can have your balanced cable for either balanced or SE. 
   
  As to which is best depends upon application and again personal preference. I have talked with some and read comments that some feel balanced isn't better than SE. I think it is but again, that is my opinion. So if balanced you have the Protector and the Toucan. They both do a great job. The sound is a little different so that is where your preference comes in. What do you like from music? Do you want a closer sound or a little more distant sound? And will any of this change what you are already hearing? I can't say. It will sound different but better is up to you. I realize that the opinions here can help guide so often, what you are really looking for can help with giving an opinion.


----------



## uglijimus

Quote: 





ray samuels said:


> P-51 was not designed to drive the AKG71
> It was designed to drive the low impedance phones & IEMs.
> Ray


 
  Are the D2000 considered low impedance phones? because I've been thinking about getting the P-51 for mine for quite some time now...


----------



## xplict_concept

I personally wouldn't want to amp a headphone output, due to the fact that you'd be double amping. You are amping once from your J3, and taking that amplified sound and amping again with your portable amp. This way, you will not be getting a clear signal from your source's DAC to your portable amp. You might hear a little difference from the portable amp's flavor and get more power, but it will still be the J3's sound. I'd reccomend buying an ipod and hooking it up with a line out dock to a portable amp, so you get a clear signal from the source's DAC to the amp. hope this helps.
  
  Quote: 





marvinong said:


> Hi head-fi!
> 
> Just wanted to ask this question since I'm planning to get an amp either from RSA or iBasso.
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

I agree, I didn't know it was a phone out. A line out, that bypasses the internal amp is the only way I would amp.


----------



## castlevania32

.


----------



## castlevania32

.


----------



## castlevania32

.


----------



## Poimandres

I was also thinking the same thing however I was looking at the Stepdance to pair with the J3.  Correct me if I am wrong but amps will have a very high impedance which should give a flatter frequency repsonse out of a dap's ho.
   
  Even when you are amping the signal from an ipod or other analog line out you are still relying on the dac from that device.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone have both the nuforce HDP and P-51? 
  Comparisons would be appreciated.  Just love the P-51. Open, clear, transparent and liquid midrange.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Anyone have both the nuforce HDP and P-51?
> Comparisons would be appreciated.  Just love the P-51. Open, clear, transparent and liquid midrange.


 

 Answered cross-post in the HDP thread.


----------



## justanut

Hi,
   
  I'm looking to replace my Shadow as I'm moving away from IEMs and am trying to match a nice amp with the Ed8s. The Shadow drives the Ed8s pretty well, but I find them losing out in terms of resolution when compared to the iQube. Not sure if its because they really are meant more for IEMs.
   
  I've considered the SR-71 series too, but am turned off by the 9v battery required in the original and the A. Not interested in going balanced thus not looking at the B. 
   
  I'm looking at the Mustang as I've always found them to have the nicest Mids when I was using my TF10s, although I did eventually go for the Shadow for various reasons... Now, can anyone who has listened to the Mustang using a pair of high-definition headphones advise me if the Mustangs would drive something like the Ed8 with clarity and resolution (no I'm not talking about power... the Ed8s are easily driven out of the iPod's headphone jack... but sound thin even though volume is there).
   
  Appreciate the help!


----------



## jamato8

I wish I had the Ed. 8, maybe some day and I would give you my opinion on the combination. On the 71a I find the rechargeable batteries I use to last many hours before they need to be recharged but I understand if you want an internal rechargeable. 
   
  The Mustang does very fine job also. It works well with my Ed. 9 driving them with fine response for the full range of frequencies.


----------



## Jalo

I would try the Pico Slim.


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Has anyone got the P61 with a Sony Z1000 which should be fine for the P61 to drive as it is an efficient 24ohms can. 
   
  Just wandering if someone who does have the Z1000 can clarify this and how it sounds together. 
   
  Also have JH16pros to use with the P51 which I am sure will be a good match SQ wise.
  Source is currently a Sony X1060 which is a warm SQ for a digital amp and listen to most genres so not pigeon holed on Sig.


----------



## mikaveli06

Will there power hifiman he-400


----------



## Bigdog33

Does anyone know how the p51 sounds with the ultrasone pro 900s? I am hoping that it would improve the midrange on the 900s, but I've never seen anyone explicitly make that claim.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





bigdog33 said:


> Does anyone know how the p51 sounds with the ultrasone pro 900s? I am hoping that it would improve the midrange on the 900s, but I've never seen anyone explicitly make that claim.


 

 Well, the P-51 has excellent mids, but whether it can improve a Pro 900 is another story. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What do you specifically want to hear improve in the Pro 900 mids that you think an amp can help with?


----------



## ibis99

Would you guys say the P.51 is a good fit for the Ety ER4s?

Also when I try to vist rays site it's seems to be down.


----------



## Bigdog33

I've found that when listening with the pro 900s the bass overpowers the mid sections too much. So I end up having to turn up to near full volume to hear everything, and this results in fatigue too quickly. I have hd650s and I can listen to those bad boys for hours. 

Maybe the ultrasone sound signature will never mesh with my tastes, and I will have to end up getting another pair of closed cans to listen to while at work and the library.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





ibis99 said:


> Would you guys say the P.51 is a good fit for the Ety ER4s?
> Also when I try to vist rays site it's seems to be down.


 
   
  I use the ER-4S + P-51 as my main travel rig. I think it sounds great and the P-51 breathes a lot of air into the ER-4S. The gain is in Medium with the ER-4S.


----------



## ShenaRingo326

received mine from RSA in 4 days after payment, charging now and looking forward to pre/post burn in impressions!


----------



## jamato8

Excellent amp and has traveled all of the world with me.


----------



## rasmushorn

jamato8 said:


> Excellent amp and has traveled all of the world with me.




X2 - except for Antarctica and South America I have brought it to all continents. Perfect for ultra light packing with IEMs and with long battery life I never have to worry about bringing a charger or extra batteries.


----------



## Meoow

How well RSA stacks up against ALO?
  I have a RSA Mustang and I have to say that it was the most worthy $390 I had ever spent lol. The thing is that I am looking to upgrade my portable gears. Right now I have my Ipod Classic with the Mustang and Copper ALO Ipod LOD. I am wanting to get a full set of DAC & AMP for my Ipod, should I just get a ALO DAC to go with my Mustang? Or...is it really worth getting a DAC for Ipod anyway?
   
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/AlgoRhythm-Solo-Ray-Samuels-P51-ALO-Audio-cable-combo vs http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/AlgoRhythm-Solo-Continental-V2-tube-ALO-Audio-cable-combo-1 ????


----------



## sbattalio

I personally LOVE the p51 with my pro 900s.  And strangely, after extensive burn in I don't find the mids of the 900 to be that underwhelming.  I actually feel like the frequency response has become a solid amount flatter now that I'm closing in on about 400 hours.  I did find the mids underwhelming before, but not any longer.  
   
  Something I've noticed about the p-51 is that it seems to sound much better when plugged into the charger, but after about 10-15 hours of charge-less listening it isn't AS good.  This seems strange to me considering it is intended to be portable, and I haven't read anything similar to this before.  Does anyone else notice this? I very rarely get even close to  emptying the battery completely because I end up plugging it in for the improved sound quality.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





sbattalio said:


> I personally LOVE the p51 with my pro 900s.  And strangely, after extensive burn in I don't find the mids of the 900 to be that underwhelming.  I actually feel like the frequency response has become a solid amount flatter now that I'm closing in on about 400 hours.  I did find the mids underwhelming before, but not any longer.
> 
> Something I've noticed about the p-51 is that it seems to sound much better when plugged into the charger, but after about 10-15 hours of charge-less listening it isn't AS good.  This seems strange to me considering it is intended to be portable, and I haven't read anything similar to this before.  Does anyone else notice this? I very rarely get even close to  emptying the battery completely because I end up plugging it in for the improved sound quality.


 
   
  Strange. I never noticed any difference between when it is connected to the charger.


----------



## mmayer167

Reviving a dead thread with some pictures and late to the game impressions!
   
  After reading all of the great things about this little amp I decided to see for myself if I could replace my home rig and current portable with just one rig. I wanted one good setup for work and home that I could take back and forth easily. So far this is a stellar combo. I keep my paradox at work and the ath-ad2k at home, it drives both of them superbly. The combo of the p-51 and ad2k is really special, the mids, good lord are they good, forward and vivid. The unit is no where near burnt in, but if it gets better its only a plus from what i'm hearing now. I will most likely be putting my CTH up for sale since the p-51 is on par with it, the p-51 has that solid state clarity over the cth which I like, the p-51 is also more aggressive than the CTH. I use the term aggressive carefully since it evokes the thought of in your face sound, which i think the p-51 is not, it is a very big but confident sound. I will miss the liquid feel of the CTH from time to time I suppose, but as i type this listening to the p-51 I feel no need to be plugged into the cth instead of the p-51. Color me impressed with Ray's work he accomplished a few years ago already with the p-51! 
   
  I hope these thoughts add to the words already been said about the p-51 and maybe help someone on the same search I was a week ago.
   
  Cheers Head-Fi !
   
  ~M


----------



## rasmushorn

ODAC + P-51 is a very portable set of gear. I can only imagine that it sounds great as a companion for your laptop.


----------



## mmayer167

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> ODAC + P-51 is a very portable set of gear. I can only imagine that it sounds great as a companion for your laptop.


 
  Agreed, I put it in my pocket just like my keys on my way out the door for work every day. My CTH just sold, it's official, this is my main rig and I feel good about it! Out of all the gear I've ever owned this rig is the most versatile and practical(for me). 
   
  Cheers, 
   
  ~M


----------



## jamato8

The P-51 is an excellent performer and then you consider the size. It is like a straight wire. Also, I have never had an issue with mine, it runs and runs. Great stuff. :^)


----------



## dryvadeum

Hey, if anyone can give me some advice I'd greatly appreciate it.
   
  I'm tossing up between the RSA Mustang and the Meier Audio Quickstep. I'll be using either amp with Denon D5000's and Hifiman HE 400's. I want an amp that produces good bass impact with weight and body but is still tight and defined. I've read that the RSA Mustang is slightly warm so I'm concerned that using the D5000's and HE 400's will sound too warm & perhaps dark and lack that upfront cleanness & clarity. Has anyone got both the Meier Quickstep/2Stepdance (virtually the same amp) and the RSA Mustang?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Hey, if anyone can give me some advice I'd greatly appreciate it.
> 
> I'm tossing up between the RSA Mustang and the Meier Audio Quickstep. I'll be using either amp with Denon D5000's and Hifiman HE 400's. I want an amp that produces good bass impact with weight and body but is still tight and defined. I've read that the RSA Mustang is slightly warm so I'm concerned that using the D5000's and HE 400's will sound too warm & perhaps dark and lack that upfront cleanness & clarity. Has anyone got both the Meier Quickstep/2Stepdance (virtually the same amp) and the RSA Mustang?


 
   
  I used to have both the P-51 and the Quickstep. I ended up selling the P-51. The Quickstep simply got the most listening time. It has better control and clarity and it feels like it has more power over the headphones. There is a bit more separation between instruments with the Quickstep. I have nothing bad to say about the P-51 though. It does everything very good. Battery time from the P-51 is much better than with the Quickstep - MUCH better. Like 50 hours vs. 15 hours. Size and portability also makes the P-51 a winner for some people. I just ended up listening to the Quickstep more because it has that extra control and punch. I never thought of the P-51 as a warm sounding amplifier and when compared to the Quickstep they are both close to neutral to my ears. 
   
  In the end you might not prefer the Quickstep. The biggest difference is probably how the synergy is with the headphones you use. I Mostly used the T70p and T5p at the time I had both. They are both 32 Ohm and that might not be the best pairing with P-51? Also I have never heard D5000 nor the HE400s with either of the amps. I know that when I had the HD650 I also prefered them with the iQube better than with the P-51. I hope this can be of some help?


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> I used to have both the P-51 and the Quickstep. I ended up selling the P-51. The Quickstep simply got the most listening time. It has better control and clarity and it feels like it has more power over the headphones. There is a bit more separation between instruments with the Quickstep. I have nothing bad to say about the P-51 though. It does everything very good. Battery time from the P-51 is much better than with the Quickstep - MUCH better. Like 50 hours vs. 15 hours. Size and portability also makes the P-51 a winner for some people. I just ended up listening to the Quickstep more because it has that extra control and punch. I never thought of the P-51 as a warm sounding amplifier and when compared to the Quickstep they are both close to neutral to my ears.
> 
> In the end you might not prefer the Quickstep. The biggest difference is probably how the synergy is with the headphones you use. I Mostly used the T70p and T5p at the time I had both. They are both 32 Ohm and that might not be the best pairing with P-51? Also I have never heard D5000 nor the HE400s with either of the amps. I know that when I had the HD650 I also prefered them with the iQube better than with the P-51. I hope this can be of some help?




Thanks. Whats the bass like on both amps?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Thanks. Whats the bass like on both amps?


 
  The bass is where I feel that the extra power of the Quickstep is best heard. It is more tight and fast in the Quickstep on my Beyerdynamic T5p. There is no or very little difference in the impact or amount of bass. It is just that little bit of extra control of the bass in the Quickstep. But once again it might be another result with a different headphone? The good thing with these two amplifiers is that they will probably do a good job with a large variety of headphones. The P-51 has three gain settings and the Quickstep has two. This means that they can be used with everything from very sensible IEMS to 300 Ohm headphones. None of them can take enough control of the T1 though.
   
  Another important advantage to the Quickstep is its volume control. It just feels much better and there is no channel imbalance even at the lowest volume setting. This was different with my P-51 where there was a slight imbalance at the lowest levels.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Thanks. Whats the bass like on both amps?


 
  Are you gonna keep your Glacier?  I sent mine back this week.  I've got a C&C BH on the way (should be here by the end of the month).  I'm also gona mod my Ipod Video with a CF 600X 128G card, build a good quality lod and cables for my HD 25-1 II.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## dryvadeum

dark helmet said:


> Are you gonna keep your Glacier?  I sent mine back this week.  I've got a C&C BH on the way (should be here by the end of the month).  I'm also gona mod my Ipod Video with a CF 600X 128G card, build a good quality lod and cables for my HD 25-1 II.  Looking forward to it.




Yeah, Im going to keep the Glacier for now as it's nice and warm. The reason Im looking at the Quickstep is that I want something more neutral to compliment the glacier. The C & C BH is good but not as good as what those around here have said. You can tell its not as good quality as the Glacier as its not as detailed although on first listen it appears so as its brighter. Its nowhere near as refined as the glacier.


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> The bass is where I feel that the extra power of the Quickstep is best heard. It is more tight and fast in the Quickstep on my Beyerdynamic T5p. There is no or very little difference in the impact or amount of bass. It is just that little bit of extra control of the bass in the Quickstep. But once again it might be another result with a different headphone? The good thing with these two amplifiers is that they will probably do a good job with a large variety of headphones. The P-51 has three gain settings and the Quickstep has two. This means that they can be used with everything from very sensible IEMS to 300 Ohm headphones. None of them can take enough control of the T1 though.
> 
> Another important advantage to the Quickstep is its volume control. It just feels much better and there is no channel imbalance even at the lowest volume setting. This was different with my P-51 where there was a slight imbalance at the lowest levels.




Sounds like the Quickstep is the way to go. Is there anywhere I can get a cheap 15v wall power supply for it?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Sounds like the Quickstep is the way to go. Is there anywhere I can get a cheap 15v wall power supply for it?


 
  You can find a few suggestions in this thread:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/507835/meier-audio-quickstep-also-stepdance-and-2stepdance-discussion-and-impressions-thread/2010
  From page 135 and onwards.


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> You can find a few suggestions in this thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/507835/meier-audio-quickstep-also-stepdance-and-2stepdance-discussion-and-impressions-thread/2010
> From page 135 and onwards.




Thanks. How long will a 9v battery last in the Quickstep if I use for 2-3 hours a day?


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Yeah, Im going to keep the Glacier for now as it's nice and warm. The reason Im looking at the Quickstep is that I want something more neutral to compliment the glacier. The C & C BH is good but not as good as what those around here have said. You can tell its not as good quality as the Glacier as its not as detailed although on first listen it appears so as its brighter. Its nowhere near as refined as the glacier.


 
  I liked the Glacier.  Mine had a lot of hiss and after I turned it down to the point that it was gone I could max our the volume on a lot of music that still left me wanting for more.  I told Todd about this and he said he would test it.  This is through my Hd25-1 II.  
   
  Through my Note 2 via OTG and to the glacier it was great but not significantly better than the Headstreamer Mobile I had.  It was a bit faster but I think that ws due to the fact that the Glacier is significantly louder.  Through my Ipod video 5.5 via LOD it was OK not great.  I was using a Fiio LOD but still not as impressive.  I know that the LOD is not as good as going to DAC/Amp but.....


----------



## dryvadeum

Quote: 





dark helmet said:


> I liked the Glacier.  Mine had a lot of hiss and after I turned it down to the point that it was gone I could max our the volume on a lot of music that still left me wanting for more.  I told Todd about this and he said he would test it.  This is through my Hd25-1 II.
> 
> Through my Note 2 via OTG and to the glacier it was great but not significantly better than the Headstreamer Mobile I had.  It was a bit faster but I think that ws due to the fact that the Glacier is significantly louder.  Through my Ipod video 5.5 via LOD it was OK not great.  I was using a Fiio LOD but still not as impressive.  I know that the LOD is not as good as going to DAC/Amp but.....


 
  I've never had any problems with hiss, but I do get a lot of RF interference. I think the Apex Glacier is a good amp but the DAC is a bit lacking. I like using my Stoner Acoustics UD100 with the Apex as it retains the Apex's warmth but improves the clarity & punch.
   
  I just ordered a Meier Quickstep so if that's a lot better I may sell the Apex Glacier, although I do like it's warm sound.


----------



## Dark Helmet

$495 is a lot, to use it just as an amp.  I read up on the Meier Audio stuff a while ago.  Very cool design.  Hope it works out for you.


----------



## Poimandres

Not if the amp portion is worth it. The size of the Glacier is hard to beat. At the end of the day I feel the portaphile is the better choice for the 5 Benjamin's especially if you aren't utilizing the dac of the glacier.


----------



## dryvadeum

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Not if the amp portion is worth it. The size of the Glacier is hard to beat. At the end of the day I feel the portaphile is the better choice for the 5 Benjamin's especially if you aren't utilizing the dac of the glacier.


 
  Yeah, I've read a bit about the Portaphile. I'll see how the Quickstep is and then see whether I want to keep the Apex or sell it and get another amp.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Not if the amp portion is worth it. The size of the Glacier is hard to beat. At the end of the day I feel the portaphile is the better choice for the 5 Benjamin's especially if you aren't utilizing the dac of the glacier.


 
  Fair point.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Thanks. How long will a 9v battery last in the Quickstep if I use for 2-3 hours a day?


 
  You should be able to do a full working week with a new 9V battery. I never measured exactly but I get around 15+ hours. At home I always use a 12V power plug and thus only run on the battery while at work or traveling. With the Quickstep I always have a spare battery in my bag and I never had to bring even the charger with me when I used the P-51 even for week long business-trips.


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> You should be able to do a full working week with a new 9V battery. I never measured exactly but I get around 15+ hours. At home I always use a 12V power plug and thus only run on the battery while at work or traveling. With the Quickstep I always have a spare battery in my bag and I never had to bring even the charger with me when I used the P-51 even for week long business-trips.




Thanks. Could you point me in the direction of a 15v wall power supply? I checked that link but no real direction. Something off ebay would be the easiest.

ALso, do you notice an improvement in sound quality when using the 12v power supply over the battery?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Thanks. Could you point me in the direction of a 15v wall power supply? I checked that link but no real direction. Something off ebay would be the easiest.
> 
> ALso, do you notice an improvement in sound quality when using the 12v power supply over the battery?


 
  I could never find anything from eBay. I use an old DECT phone-handset charger. The good thing is that it has no noise. Also I can not hear any difference between battery or power supply.


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> I could never find anything from eBay. I use an old DECT phone-handset charger. The good thing is that it has no noise. Also I can not hear any difference between battery or power supply.




Ok thanks. What size is the power supply plug that goes in the back of the Quickstep?


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





dryvadeum said:


> Ok thanks. What size is the power supply plug that goes in the back of the Quickstep?


 
  I think we should move this to the Quickstep thread. Again from page 135 you can find the right size.


----------



## dryvadeum

rasmushorn said:


> I think we should move this to the Quickstep thread. Again from page 135 you can find the right size.




Thanks. I posted a power supply on that thread if you care to comment


----------



## fengwei007

Just got a second hand mustang P-51, paired it w my iPod classic and RS1, the combo sounds really good w the musics I like to listen. Very happy w the purchase.

Now I got a few questions which I think here it the best place to ask:

1. When I charge it, how would I know it's fully charged already? There is no indicator or light which shows the charging status, and the amp doesn't feel warm at all when charging, not like some other portable devices I have.

2. When I charge it, should I switch it OFF or it doesn't matter if it's OFF or ON? Can I use it when charging? 

3. Any indicator or way to know the battery is running flat and needs to be charged?

Really appreciate if you guys can help me out on these


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





fengwei007 said:


> Just got a second hand mustang P-51, paired it w my iPod classic and RS1, the combo sounds really good w the musics I like to listen. Very happy w the purchase.
> 
> Now I got a few questions which I think here it the best place to ask:
> 
> ...


 
  Hi - there is no battery indicator other than the unit simply stopping when it runs dry. That is the only way to know if it needs charging. I usually just left my P-51 to charge overnight. That was enough to have it run for 50 hours afterwards. Like there is no indicator for low battery you can not know when it is fully charged either. But consider 8 hours for it to be fully charged. It can be used while charging so no worried there. Sorry I know this is no help at all - but the userguide was not included in mine and I guess the battery is "intelligent" so that it will not overcharge or wear out too fast. The only thing Ray wrote somewhere is that you can not do anything to wear out the battery in any way neither by overcharging it or charging it enough. So use it as you wish and charge at convenience then you will be safe.


----------



## Del Griffith

Hello, 
  On my charger...the front has a light that is red when charging and green when fully charged.
  You can use it while charging...doesn't hurt anything.
  The battery lasts a long time...mine starts to distort slightly when I need to charge.
  I am new to mine as in a few months having it..anyone please correct me if I _said _anything wrong.
  Enjoy.


----------



## rasmushorn

Oh yeah that is right. It distorts when battery is low.


----------



## fengwei007

Thanks guys for your quick replies, very helpful.

Last night I listened to the IPC+Mustng+T5p for a few hours, couldn't put the headphones down until 2am. Just love the combo .


----------



## Skullbox

This is my first adventure in headamp,  After searching and finaly finding the best in IEM (for me, imo) It's time now to get the best in portable amp!
   
  After reading many threads here, time come to look now for the best amp for my new iem.  I think Mustang will fit, will get the best synergy with my W4r. and my iTouch pod Is it true?

 Predator, Tomahack or Blackhawks? Also, what kind of cable (brand/model) I will need and at what cost, to connect all these to my iTouch?
   
  Pete!
   
  A+


----------



## Zeke2040

...Just an update.. have been listening to mine for around 4 years and it is still going strong. Love the P-51!


----------



## jamato8

zeke2040 said:


> ...Just an update.. have been listening to mine for around 4 years and it is still going strong. Love the P-51!


 
 Yep a great little amp that has held up fine with time. No reason it won't be great for a long time.


----------



## heliuscc

Could somebody tell me the exact specification of the charger; 5V, how many amps, and exactly what size of plug. Thanks


----------



## jamato8

heliuscc said:


> Could somebody tell me the exact specification of the charger; 5V, how many amps, and exactly what size of plug. Thanks


 
 Email Ray at RSA.


----------



## heliuscc

jamato8 said:


> Email Ray at RSA.


Done that, thought someone might read it off their charger...


----------



## Joelc87

Lately I've been using my p-51 as a portable amp at work with my macbook pro, ODAC, and UERMs.  I'll have to say this is a little match made in heaven.  The UERMs are pretty efficient but they need a fair bit of current to really fill out all the space that they're capable of.  I remember when the P-51 first came out Ray's key claim was that it could swing twice the current as the tomahawk and I have no doubt of that.  Center sounds really LOCK dead center, snapped into focus, and distant off axis sounds are all placed in a very nice dimensional sound stage.  One of the first things I noticed about the P-51 when I first got it years ago was it's consistent imaging.  Sure the soundstage isn't as wide or as deep as some, but it sounds very real, doesn't try to stretch them out or anything.  For those of you who haven't had a chance to try the UERM and are looking for a pair of $1k IEMs i'd highly suggest these as they have some otherwordly sound stage imaging for IEMs or really anything for that matter.  Anyway just a few quick thoughts.  Happy listening everybody!!


----------



## Za Warudo

Does anyone know if the battery is replaceable, and if soldering is needed to replace it?


----------



## liamstrain

I do not believe the battery is user replaceable.


----------



## Skullbox

joelc87 said:


> Lately I've been using my p-51 as a portable amp at work with my macbook pro, ODAC, and UERMs.  I'll have to say this is a little match made in heaven.  The UERMs are pretty efficient but they need a fair bit of current to really fill out all the space that they're capable of.  I remember when the P-51 first came out Ray's key claim was that it could swing twice the current as the tomahawk and I have no doubt of that.  Center sounds really LOCK dead center, snapped into focus, and distant off axis sounds are all placed in a very nice dimensional sound stage.  One of the first things I noticed about the P-51 when I first got it years ago was it's consistent imaging.  Sure the soundstage isn't as wide or as deep as some, but it sounds very real, doesn't try to stretch them out or anything.  For those of you who haven't had a chance to try the UERM and are looking for a pair of $1k IEMs i'd highly suggest these as they have some otherwordly sound stage imaging for IEMs or really anything for that matter.  Anyway just a few quick thoughts.  Happy listening everybody!!



Sorry, what is UERM and ODAC mean ? Is P-51 a DAC or headamp ? Is P-51 will be the best fighter or in a good synergy with my W4r ?

thx


----------



## Skullbox

za warudo said:


> Does anyone know if the battery is replaceable, and if soldering is needed to replace it?


P-51 uses Lithium Ion battery, it has to be soldered by a technician.
Cheers.


----------



## Joelc87

skullbox said:


> Sorry, what is UERM and ODAC mean ? Is P-51 a DAC or headamp ? Is P-51 will be the best fighter or in a good synergy with my W4r ?
> 
> thx


 
 Sorry I should link products that I'm referring to.  UERM is the Ultimate Ears In ear reference monitors.  The ODAC is the Objective DAC, I have the pre-built one from JDS Labs.  The P-51 refers to the Ray Samuels P-51 Mustang headphone amplifier.  Links below.
  
 UERM = http://pro.ultimateears.com/en-us/home/Reference-Monitors
  
 ODAC = http://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/
  
 P-51 = http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/p-51


----------



## Skullbox

joelc87 said:


> Sorry I should link products that I'm referring to.  UERM is the Ultimate Ears In ear reference monitors.  The ODAC is the Objective DAC, I have the pre-built one from JDS Labs.  The P-51 refers to the Ray Samuels P-51 Mustang headphone amplifier.  Links below.
> 
> UERM = http://pro.ultimateears.com/en-us/home/Reference-Monitors
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links!

$375.00 for the black P-51
$48.00 for the shipping.
4.2% pay-pal fee.
Total is $440.77

Is this a fair price ?


----------



## Canuck57

skullbox said:


> Thanks for the links!
> 
> $375.00 for the black P-51
> $48.00 for the shipping.
> ...




On top of that there will be brokerage ( I can't find their fee chart but it's based on the value in CDN dollars) and HST. There will be no duty as the amp is made in the USA so it falls under NAFTA.


----------



## Skullbox

canuck57 said:


> On top of that there will be brokerage ( I can't find their fee chart but it's based on the value in CDN dollars) and HST. There will be no duty as the amp is made in the USA so it falls under NAFTA.


Humm... thanks! This is the less expensive in the lineup? iPiko is maybe the best move for my w4e phone!? ...


----------



## heliuscc

I have a second hand mustang in the classifieds that I can send worldwide from UK as necessary, if that helps?


----------



## Skullbox

heliuscc said:


> I have a second hand mustang in the classifieds that I can send worldwide from UK as necessary, if that helps?


Thanks, ur so kind!


----------



## heliuscc

Very very good price mister!


----------



## CalvinXC

Interested in getting this little beast, have anyone had problem paring it with very sensitive IEM like the 535? Is there any hiss?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

calvinxc said:


> Interested in getting this little beast, have anyone had problem paring it with very sensitive IEM like the 535? Is there any hiss?


 

 Never had any hiss from it, even with my ES3X that hiss with everything.  P-51 is a fantastic sounding portable with anything.


----------



## CalvinXC

headphoneaddict said:


> Never had any hiss from it, even with my ES3X that hiss with everything.  P-51 is a fantastic sounding portable with anything.



Still awaiting the seller to process the purchase, hope I can get it ASAP. I sent RSA an email and they did tell me they are tested with 530/535 as well and with no hiss at all.


----------



## Joelc87

No hissing here and I'm using Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitors, which are probably some of the touchiest earphones out there.


----------



## dryvadeum

Hey guys, just bought a P51 off the classifieds here. I charged it last night for about 3 hrs from dead and turned it on this morning and only got about 5 mins out of it before it died again. 

Do I need to turn the amount on when its plugged into the wall socket to charge it? Or does it need more than a few hours to fully charge? Not sure how long the previous owner used it for.


----------



## jamato8

dryvadeum said:


> Hey guys, just bought a P51 off the classifieds here. I charged it last night for about 3 hrs from dead and turned it on this morning and only got about 5 mins out of it before it died again.
> 
> Do I need to turn the amount on when its plugged into the wall socket to charge it? Or does it need more than a few hours to fully charge? Not sure how long the previous owner used it for.


 

 If dead when you got it, it could be that the battery is pretty much gone. Did the indicator change that it was charging or was it still showing that it was charging? You can always contact Ray at RSA.


----------



## dryvadeum

jamato8 said:


> If dead when you got it, it could be that the battery is pretty much gone. Did the indicator change that it was charging or was it still showing that it was charging? You can always contact Ray at RSA.




Hey thanks for replying. My charger doesn't have an indicator light or anything. I charged it for a good 15 hrs the other day and only managed to squeeze maybe 3-4 hrs of playback out of it before it died. I think the battery is cactus. 

I wonder how much Ray charges for a new battery?


----------



## TienV1125

hello everyone. nod question.   Can i drive a LCD 3 with the P51 at all?.
  
 thanks


----------



## liamstrain

tienv1125 said:


> hello everyone. nod question.   Can i drive a LCD 3 with the P51 at all?.
> 
> thanks


 
  
 My P51 will drive my LCD 2.2's just fine, even on low gain. So I expect so.


----------



## Mach3

dryvadeum said:


> Hey thanks for replying. My charger doesn't have an indicator light or anything. I charged it for a good 15 hrs the other day and only managed to squeeze maybe 3-4 hrs of playback out of it before it died. I think the battery is cactus.
> 
> I wonder how much Ray charges for a new battery?


 
  
 How did you go with the cost of replacing the battery?


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## xxxfbsxxx

mach3 said:


> How did you go with the cost of replacing the battery?



he did not go with replacing process, the amp was mine and he sent it back

he claimed 4 hours under high gain 25%vol drive philips x2

i did another test, charged for around 5 hours then fed from sony x lineout drive v-moda m80,low gain, 50% vol(almost too loud for normal listen-as some one mentioned above even lcd2 only needs low gain) and it lasted for more than 12 hours before completely turned off

Not sure is it normal to have such huge difference between high vs low gain battery life


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## Mach3

xxxfbsxxx said:


> he did not go with replacing process, the amp was mine and he sent it back
> 
> he claimed 4 hours under high gain 25%vol drive philips x2
> 
> ...




Sound right, at high gain it 3x louder than low gain so it make sense that it only last three time less.


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## session76

Does Ray still replace the batteries on these amps?


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## Bigdog33

Can any one point me to a replacement charger?  I seem to have misplaced mine after moving...


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## jk47

bigdog33 said:


> Can any one point me to a replacement charger?  I seem to have misplaced mine after moving...


 
 have you tried contacting rsa?


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## Jmop

If anyone’s lookin to sell shoot me a pm.


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## labrat

xxxfbsxxx said:


> he did not go with replacing process, the amp was mine and he sent it back
> 
> he claimed 4 hours under high gain 25%vol drive philips x2
> 
> ...



Mine is more than 7 years old, still runs 48 hours on Medium with material being played to Shure IEMs.
There is no indicator on the unit that tells you it is charging, or finished.
So I leave it charging overnight when necessary.
Was thinking of selling it, but tested and found I will keep this!
I believe it can be opened with a bit of fiddling, only problem seems it is being glued together also.
A battery should be possible to get when that time comes.


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## Jmop

Just thought I'd throw this thread a bump. For those looking for a versatile amp with no noise, I can't recommend this one enough. I have heard a good handful of amps and this is definitely a favorite of mine. I think what really sets it apart is the imaging. The soundstage coherence is simply outstanding. It might not win awards for instrument separation or soundstage width, but it is indeed no slouch in these regards. By comparison, the Apex Glacier sounds wider but less filling in the soundstage, giving the Mustang an impression of being more natural. The Shadow has better separation but hisses and sounds flatter in soundstage, giving the Mustang an edge in that 3D feel. Simply put, the Mustang makes music sound the way it should.


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## Jmop

Has anyone compared the Mustang to the Vorzuge Pure II/+?


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## Mad Max

The bass on this little thing half-way sounds like it has a discrete buffer dedicated to just the bass.
Treble doesn't sound as good in the low gain compared to the mid and high gain settings, is that normal?

There seems to be something special about Mustang x Sennheisers, I think.  There's something special about the Mustang's sound signature with Rhodes pianos, too, oh baby!


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## luckybaer

Ahh... memories... I have a Hornet "M" and the Mustang.  Excellent amps.  I think I'll dig them out and run an RCA-Mini cable from Gumby to the input jacks and see how they sound fed by a dedicated source (instead of iPhone/iPod).


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## Jmop

Bumping this for anyone looking to sell their stang! PM me


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## Jmop

Finally got one of these coming in, I sure do miss it. I’m excited to post a pic of my mini rig with a 6th gen nano this week!


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## Jmop

Ah, never mind. I need a different line-out.


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## Jmop (Apr 24, 2019)

Man, I should’ve been an engineer.


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## Mad Max

I like Black Dragon better.
Gotta love the shielding on those Moon Audio cables, too, well done.


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## Jmop

Mad Max said:


> I like Black Dragon better.
> Gotta love the shielding on those Moon Audio cables, too, well done.


It’s all I got, wish it was more flexible though.


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## Mad Max

Strip the outer jacket and the shielding off and it is pretty flexible.  Ever worked with Mogami or Canare starquad mic cable?


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## Jmop

Ah I already got another one coming in.. I’d rather just sell that one and not accidentally ruin it haha.


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## Jmop

And nope, never tired either of those.


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## Jmop

Can I get a comparison between the Mustang and Hornet? Looking at IEM use only, I’m expecting the Hornet to punch a little harder in the bass and excite the upper mids / lower treble more than the Mustang. Is this correct?


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