# Soldering Station - Was going to get a CSI Model (Circuit Specialists) but...



## aphexii

I sent Circuit Specialists two e-mails over the past two weeks, not a single response. I was hoping to find out about tip compatibility, but if this is how they run their businesses, I think I might look elsewhere...

 I am thinking of either going for the Hakko 936 or a Hakko Clone (preferably one that can accept Hakko tips as I have a local dealer who sells the tips fairly cheap). 

 I'm a casual user, but with a soon to build Milled MiniMAX and a Nixie Clock, I'd prefer something halfway decent (at least better than my pencil iron I currently have). Its a present from the wife, so I'd like to stay around $75 or under. The Hakko 936 fits, but with shipping its closer to $90.


----------



## DaMnEd

I have one of these: Amazon.com: aoyue 2900

 Love it, many tips to choose from, plenty powerful, slim iron, fair price. The tips are not the cheapest but they do include the heating element.


----------



## digger945

You'll find the 936 mentioned more here than any other.
 I bought the Rad Shack digital soldering station, it's the same as the Madell AT 201 D. It has the heating element built into the tip, with many different tips to choose from. I have used it a lot lately, and the first tip I will order will be some kind of skinny chisel tip(I have the pencil tip now and it's a bit small to heat joints in tight places).
 Thing I like the most is it tells me the temp, and it heats up very quickly.
 I like it. Probably close to the same price as the ones online, when you include shipping.


----------



## linuxworks

my csi station is JUNK.

 damned thing blinks 'OFF' all the time. it was poorly built and I would not waste money on it.

 buying a radio shack $10 iron is probably a better move than csi! ;(

 tip avail is also an issue. stay mainstream and you'll be better off.


----------



## Omega

The xytronic 379 is also recommended a lot, but I have no personal experience with it.

Xytronic 379 Temperature Controlled Soldering Station

 ^ there it is for $50.


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

Ahh my favorite kind of threads, back for its quarterly visit
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my csi station is JUNK.

 damned thing blinks 'OFF' all the time. it was poorly built and I would not waste money on it.

 buying a radio shack $10 iron is probably a better move than csi! ;(_

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Are you sure that's not what it's supposed to do? I've seen many many people around here say their CSI stations are great. They're made by Aoyue, as are many of the other Hakko 936 clones. Supposedly the Aoyues can use Hakko tips, but I saw some thing a couple months ago about people who were having problems with that.

 I have the Xytronic 379 (with the brass wool instead of a sponge) and I love it, but mine the LED on mine turns on and off with the heater, maintaining the temp set on the dial. That link from Omega is actually where I got it. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/rec...g-iron-239702/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/sol...gevity-341055/


----------



## linuxworks

I'm sure its not supposed to go 'offline' like that!

 its a digital display and its supposed to just display the set and the actual temp (move the knob and its 'set' and release and it times-out to show 'actual').

 I might have a bad pencil and that's why it goes offline but still - I consider it junk and won't waste money on no-name brands on irons again.

 weller or hakko and that would be pretty much it for me.


----------



## pabbi1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought the Rad Shack digital soldering station, it's the same as the Madell AT 201 D. It has the heating element built into the tip, with many different tips to choose from. I have used it a lot lately, and the first tip I will order will be some kind of skinny chisel tip(I have the pencil tip now and it's a bit small to heat joints in tight places).
 Thing I like the most is it tells me the temp, and it heats up very quickly.
 I like it. Probably close to the same price as the ones online, when you include shipping._

 

x2 - I have now built 6 or 7 amps, and redone a lot of other modding, and this thing always does the job. I am a fan but not an evangelist.


----------



## digger945

I'm not stumpin' for Rad Shack either, I'm just not willing to pay what some want for the shipping, that and I'm a little impatient sometimes LOL.

 It is after all a RS branded Madell, and now I have more than one source for tips.


----------



## FallenAngel

Have the Hakko 936, love it, won't go back to anything else.


----------



## holland

i have a csi station 1a and it's fine. i have a hakko 936 and it's fine as well. 936 tips work on the csi.

 not much tech in soldering stations, there's nothing unique about the technology. it's all just preferences. to be honest, it doesn't much matter what's used. all you need are tips and temp control. i can tolerate slow heat up, though the quick heat up of the hakko and the csi stations are nice.

 I have 5 irons, and can use any of those for building anything. desoldering is a bit trickier, but can use 4 of the 5 for that.

 csi station 1a
 hakko 936
 nte j060vt
 tenma soldering station ($10 woo) 21-7945
 ratshack 15/30W pencil

 I've used 4 of the 5 to build many amps. I double up to remove smd components, instead of getting a tweezer.

 personally, if something goes wrong, in the trash it goes. i don't need support for a $40 soldering iron. got my hakko 936 @ fry's for $50, iirc.


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure its not supposed to go 'offline' like that!

 its a digital display and its supposed to just display the set and the actual temp (move the knob and its 'set' and release and it times-out to show 'actual').

 I might have a bad pencil and that's why it goes offline but still - I consider it junk and won't waste money on no-name brands on irons again.

 weller or hakko and that would be pretty much it for me._

 

ahhh you have the digital one, and the display blinks off? Ok well then ya something's obviously wrong. The Xytronic 379 I have is analog and just has a single LED that goes on when the heater does. As mono said in one of the links I posted, Xytronics are higher quality than the CSI & other Hakko clones. So I guess the 379 would be my recommendation for you aphexii. I've been using the one chisel tip with mine for the year and a half I've had it and it's still truckin. That said, if you can afford to, I'd get a few extra tips just in case they stop making them... it looks like alot of these companies are stopping production on older models for newer ones designed for lead-free soldering.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holland* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a csi station 1a and it's fine. i have a hakko 936 and it's fine as well. 936 tips work on the csi._

 

mine is digital so maybe those are less reliable. I took it apart and replaced the pot and that helped but it still goes 'OFF' (blinks) pretty frequently.

 what I'm seeing is cheap build. its not about tech about the company caring enough to not buy rock bottom cheap parts and labor ;(

 I have little confidence in this when I opened it up and saw its 'quality'....

  Quote:


 got my hakko 936 @ fry's for $50, iirc. 
 

that's a deal! wish I could find one at such a nice price. they're more like $80 now I think.


----------



## linuxworks

I just had a thought: how compatible do you guys think they are?

 ie, could I order a replacement pencil from hakko and wire it to the din plug that my 'fake' uses? if the pencil is the thing that is broken for me (and it seems to be the pricey part) maybe I can upgrade mine just via a repair?

 I know the dins are not going to match but I'm ok hacking it


----------



## holland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what I'm seeing is cheap build. its not about tech about the company caring enough to not buy rock bottom cheap parts and labor ;(_

 

they are all pretty much cheap builds, including the hakko.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's a deal! wish I could find one at such a nice price. they're more like $80 now I think._

 

it was a weekend sale not too long ago. fry's seems to repeat sales every now and then. keep an eye out. good price indeed.


----------



## slowpogo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure its not supposed to go 'offline' like that!

 its a digital display and its supposed to just display the set and the actual temp (move the knob and its 'set' and release and it times-out to show 'actual').

 I might have a bad pencil and that's why it goes offline but still - I consider it junk and won't waste money on no-name brands on irons again._

 

Mine does the same thing, but it's because the pencil is broken. I accidentally broke the heating element trying to put in another tip, and once I tried to install a new element I screwed something up. Now it does what yours does. It still works fine actually, the "off" business has yet to even be noticeable while I'm soldering..it's just losing a connection with the element somehow if it moves a certain way.

 I wouldn't mind so much...a new pencil is pretty cheap. But it's ** $12 ** UPS shipping no matter what you buy from them. Good lord.


----------



## deltaydeltax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holland* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 not much tech in soldering stations, there's nothing unique about the technology. it's all just preferences. to be honest, it doesn't much matter what's used. all you need are tips and temp control. i can tolerate slow heat up, though the quick heat up of the hakko and the csi stations are nice._

 

Not true. The Pace irons I have are pretty damn advanced for what they are. The Pace and Metcals have temperature feedback. Some of the Metcals even have a monitor to keep your solder from reaching the point of oxidation. One of my Pace station even has a Dremel type tool with feedback on one of the channels. If you accidentally start to cut traces you don't want to cut, and electronic brake kills the cutting tool.

 There are definitely some advanced ones out there.


----------



## jamess71

I've been using my CSI 2A for about a year and a half and have had no problems. i would recommend buying a few tips from them right off the bat. I'm very happy with it. knock on wood. 

Digital Display Soldering Station (CSI-STATION2A)


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slowpogo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine does the same thing, but it's because the pencil is broken. I accidentally broke the heating element trying to put in another tip, and once I tried to install a new element I screwed something up. Now it does what yours does. It still works fine actually, the "off" business has yet to even be noticeable while I'm soldering..it's just losing a connection with the element somehow if it moves a certain way.

 I wouldn't mind so much...a new pencil is pretty cheap. But it's ** $12 ** UPS shipping no matter what you buy from them. Good lord._

 

ah, good to know. ie, that yours also winks on and off.

 did anything ever fix it? new tips? new pencil? I'm willing to try tips+pencil from that company OR get tips+pencil from hakko and hak it (grin).

 maybe I wasted time replacing that pot on the display but it sure felt loose and wiggled around A LOT. hard to find a cheaper pot than the one they used inside ;( it almost fell apart in my hands when I removed it. but the new pot didn't really help - maybe not even a little bit.

 I guess it might be worth some new parts before junking it and going the $80 hakko route (sigh). that's just such a lot of money for what is 50 year old tech (ie, heating elements).


----------



## linuxworks

(doublepost)


----------



## linuxworks

also, what's the deal with 'lead free' soldering stations?

 is there any magic to that or is an adjustable temp iron all you need? is there some special way lead-free solder needs to be treated during soldering or something?


----------



## Omega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also, what's the deal with 'lead free' soldering stations?

 is there any magic to that or is an adjustable temp iron all you need? is there some special way lead-free solder needs to be treated during soldering or something?_

 

I believe the only difference in lead-free vs. traditional soldering stations is that lead-free solder generally takes a higher temperature to flow....therefore, a lead-free soldering station must be able to regulate that higher temperature. I imagine any temperature controlled station with enough headroom qualifies as a lead-free station.


----------



## linuxworks

thanks. kind of confirms my suspicion that its 'rebirth time' on a sales level with the ROHS movement in the industry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 a 'good' time to sell you the same old iron again but with ROHS on the front panel.

 I tend to prefer knob-adjustable stations and so I guess ALL of them are inherently lead-free-capable.


----------



## aphexii

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using my CSI 2A for about a year and a half and have had no problems. i would recommend buying a few tips from them right off the bat. I'm very happy with it. knock on wood. 

Digital Display Soldering Station (CSI-STATION2A)_

 

Have you tried any Hakko tips on it?


----------



## DaMnEd

*linuxworks*,

 The only thing that blinks on mine (digital) is a little dot on bottom right corner of the LCD, indicating that it is heating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I assume that's not what your referring to, right?


----------



## linuxworks

I don't have a dot, period! lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 there are 3 digits and after some idle time it blinks and displays OFF. I then jiggle the knob and it comes back (which is what made me think it was the pot that was faulty).

 there's no dot on mine. is yours station 2a?


----------



## MusicMtnMonkey

I purchased one of these 929C's real cheap from MPJA.com

MPJA - Power Supply, Power Supplies, Security Cameras, LCD, Fans, Etc.

 It's been good so far, light use for about 6 months. I can say it's night and day, better than the cheap Weller I purchased at Home Depot. As a beginner, it's a small silly thing, but knowing when my iron is at temperature and being able to know generally what temperature the iron is at with repeatable results made soldering WAY Easier.

 My personal opinion is that iron's without temperature controls are for pros.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have a dot, period! lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 there are 3 digits and after some idle time it blinks and displays OFF. I then jiggle the knob and it comes back (which is what made me think it was the pot that was faulty).

 there's no dot on mine. is yours station 2a?_

 

Funny thing just happened, then you said "damned thing" I thought you meant damned as in me (my nick name) and thing as in the station I suggested (the one I have) .

 I have Aoyue 2900... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Aoyue does make the csi you have but, it's not based on the same model from the looks of it, the iron on yours is more like the irons on the 9xx series from Aoyue: AOYUE SOLDERING,DESOLDERING,HOT AIR REWORK,INFRARED SOLDERING,REPAIRING SYSTEM

 I chose the 29xx series because I wanted a slimmer iron and I liked how the heating element is part of the replaceable tips.


----------



## deltaydeltax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the only difference in lead-free vs. traditional soldering stations is that lead-free solder generally takes a higher temperature to flow....therefore, a lead-free soldering station must be able to regulate that higher temperature. I imagine any temperature controlled station with enough headroom qualifies as a lead-free station._

 

The melting point of lead free solders isn't as high as some may think. I solder between 575F and 650F. Pull some datasheets from Kester, Multicore and various other mfrs. You'll see you don't need an 800F iron to melt lead free solders provided you have a good station with controlled temp feedback. 

 Lead free solders and leaded solders vary a little on temperature. They vary a lot on the amount of flux they are cored with, and the lead free solder is also much more corrosive. Lead free solders have way more flux so you're going to have more exposure to colophony You're going to go through more tips with a lead free solder than you will with a leaded solders. I've had chunks of the nickle plating eaten off by lead free solders. 

http://www.techni-tool.com/NEWS/2008...er-Results.pdf

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/62847.pdf

Rosin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rosin & colophony contact allergy. DermNet NZ

 I'll see if I can find some old tips lead free solder ate through.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have Aoyue 2900... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ok - so we have diff stations.

  Quote:


 
 I chose the 29xx series because I wanted a slimmer iron and I liked how the heating element is part of the replaceable tips. 
 

that sounds like a good idea. I read that csi is including spare heating elements in their stations but when I ordered mine (3 yrs ago or so) I didn't get a spare heater. maybe its just the heater that is wonky on mine.

 at some point it may make sense to just get a hakko and KNOW that I don't have to troubleshoot my own iron anymore (sheesh).

 I mean, time is money, to some extent. if I spend time running around for repair parts and that still didnt' fix it, how dumb was that?


----------



## DaMnEd

Hakko higher end stations also have the tips integrated with heating element+sensor: [HAKKO] : Soldering iron : HAKKO FX-951

 But these do cost way more than the Aoyue I have tho...

 Well, you pay for the QC, warranty and future maintenance being possible... peace of mind, and your pretty much assured replacement parts are not going to disappear any time soon, with these Chinese stations you never know..

 If mine craps out one day, I am probably going to buy something from Weller, Hakko, or JBC, but for now, all good with my Aoyue, pretty good for the price.


----------



## aphexii

So i swung by the local electronics store again today, turns out they stock Xytronic tips as well (not as many as the Hakko and Weller's, but a decent selection). 

 Anyone else here have a Xytronic? Seems to get good reviews as well.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aphexii* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried any Hakko tips on it?_

 

No havn't needed to yet.


----------



## holland

stated before, and multiple times. i use hakko 936 tips on my station 1a. it's fine. using medium for the 907 iron.


----------



## aphexii

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holland* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stated before, and multiple times. i use hakko 936 tips on my station 1a. it's fine. using medium for the 907 iron._

 

I'm kinda confused though, some have reported that the hakko tips don't fit on the CSI Station.

 Do some fit but not others?


----------



## holland

There are 3 different irons for the 936, and it depends which package you get or if you replaced the iron. 900, 907, 908. 900 is small, 907 is medium, 908 is large. if you get the wrong tip, it won't fit. 936 is just a base. the iron is what you should be more concerned about.

[HAKKO] : Soldering iron : HAKKO 936

 as i said, i use the 900m tips (for the 907 iron). others have said it as well.


----------



## linuxworks

followup:

 went back and forth on which should be my next 'better' station.

 ended up ordering a weller digital WESD51 for just over a hundred dollars. amazon has it for a reasonable price, I had some amazon credits and that was that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the hakko digital is almost twice that price. I *wanted* the hakko and I am sure its better (the specs say it regulates within 2degrees or so; the weller is more like 10) but the weller was the price winner for me.

 also the weller has a burn-free cord. my old wellers had that and its USEFUL to have safety features. the weller also has auto-turn off, which is another nice safety feature.

 my next choice would have been a 936 hakko but I wanted to be able to SEE the current tip temp and not just be able to set it. for that, I think the dial type (non digital) is set-only and not read/write so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope my weller arrives working - many reviews indicate the QC is quite bad on the modern wellers and many are coming DOA;( once they do work, they seem to work for a long time but initial QC is poor from what I've heard.

 I kept looking for a '$50 sale at frys' for the 936 but it just didn't happen in my timeframe


----------



## digger945

^I have digital temp readout and dial adjustment on my Rad Shack Model: 64-053(same as Madell AT 201 D). It heats fast and the temp doesn't drop more than 1 degree even when soldering cables.

 Also have 3 temp. memory buttons.
 I paid 80 bucks out the door.


----------



## linuxworks

I never saw that rat shack one! wow, that looks like a lot of value for the money.

 but .... is it safe (no fires??) and reliable long-term?

 the price sure is right, and no waiting in the mail either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does it have an anti-burn cord? that was one thing that weller has that I'm not sure many others do. and yes, it does happen that the cord gets near the hot part - sometimes I do solder at odd angles and safety does matter.


----------



## linuxworks

while shopping for soldering stations I came across this site:

Soldering Equipment: COOPER TOOLS WESD51, Weller WES51, review ASSEMBLY TECHNOLOGIES INTL.INC, Mountain, buy PACE, Erem

 here's what they say about the wesd51:

_WESD51 Soldering Station The nearest edition of this best-selling, affordable soldering place is hither - since everything from uninterrupted extension soldering to irregular habituate. The WEDS51's warmer and sensor compounding allows towards comparatively ready heat-up and retrieval. Improved iron out stop up and reservoir on the side of easier iron out changes. Features: Automatic shut-off following *99 proceedings of fabian policy*, extending tip and send lifespan; cordless degree of heat lockout to forestall operators from nurture degree of heat to unwavering higher than specified despite the room or factor; cordless tip degree of heat standardization, what one provides you in contrast with the capacity of resetting post degree of heat retrieval - allows uninterrupted extension soldering; thin, well-situated deal patch reduces tiredness. Specs: Accuracy: +/-9 degrees F; Temperature run: 350 degrees F to 850 degrees F; Output electromotive force: 24V. Meets ANSI specs. (Mexico) 50W, Digital, ETA Tip.
_

 what I'd like to know is ....

 WHO IS FABIAN?

 and why does HIS policy matter so much?

 lol.


----------



## digger945

My cord looks to be silicone, it's pretty stiff/ridgid. I do notice when I solder output caps in my Aikido with the cans on you can hear a hum, so I dont know what that means. It does have a banana plug hole on the front for a ground wire of some sort?(can't remember?).
 I can tell you this for sure:
 If you drop it in your lap, it hurts for sure LOL!


----------



## rds

Linuxworks - your tools aren't Fabian spec? All my equipment is at least 99.99 Fabian proceedings.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Linuxworks - your tools aren't Fabian spec? All my equipment is at least 99.99 Fabian proceedings._

 

I'm only 99 44/100 there.

 I'm not worthy.


----------



## musick7

I don't know if you've ever pulled apart a Weller Solder station The Red one.WLC100
 Well I took one apart and was to my surprise what I found inside! 
 About 8 parts. One of those parts is a 500K Potentiometer. The Circuit is on a Board about 1" x 1" 
 Its about a $70. Iron 
 After seeing this I am going to sift though all my stuff and see if I can't Make my own DIY Weller.
 If that goes well, I might try out Making a Digital Soldering Iron DIY Style!
 I pulled apart a PACE SENSA TEMP tonight and I have photos of what it looks like. Not many items in this one as well!
 One PAC INC. 1187-0162 REV A. Version 2.0, it has 20 leads on each side total 40. and almost all of those go into a Resistor 16 Resistors to be exact all in one Row. 
 This board has 5 Microchips well one not so micro, and 3 Capacitors and the rest of it is mostly Resistors and a Transformer. LCD Screen and and a 6 pin Iron hookup above that is a RJ11 or what looks like it.

 Anyways I will be making one soon I am hoping!!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aphexii* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent Circuit Specialists two e-mails over the past two weeks, not a single response. I was hoping to find out about tip compatibility, but if this is how they run their businesses, I think I might look elsewhere...

 I am thinking of either going for the Hakko 936 or a Hakko Clone (preferably one that can accept Hakko tips as I have a local dealer who sells the tips fairly cheap). 

 I'm a casual user, but with a soon to build Milled MiniMAX and a Nixie Clock, I'd prefer something halfway decent (at least better than my pencil iron I currently have). Its a present from the wife, so I'd like to stay around $75 or under. The Hakko 936 fits, but with shipping its closer to $90._


----------



## komi

I will go for Weller, its nice one ...

Weller WESD51 Digital Soldering Station with Power Unit, Soldering Pencil, Stand, Sponge


----------



## linuxworks

good choice, komi. its what I use, too (lol).

 non-burning rubber on the cord. check!

 auto-turn-off timer on inactivity. check!

 2 VERY nice safety features. could even be life saving (I have hit the cord with my iron more than once while not being watchful enough. I've also forgotton to turn off the iron at least once.) both features are USEFUL!


----------



## DoYouRight

Hakko all the way


----------



## linuxworks

hakko may have better build quality. weller is not the weller of 20+ yrs ago.

 still, hakko could use some user-interface improvements like what weller has.

 we need a DIY iron that does all of the above (lol).

 in fact, its do-able. I think you could adapt the hardware of hakko and the safety features of the weller.

 and digital display really is worth it. I change my setting all the time, depending on what I'm soldering. the readout is dual purpose: it shows the SET value and the CURRENT measured value. simple dials are one-way and don't show cur-value.


----------



## Earwax

Has anyone tried the $15 Stahl from parts express? Parts-Express.com:*Stahl Tools STSSVT Variable Temperature Soldering Station | soldering soldering tools soldering station solder station stahl tools stssvt variable temperature soldering station soldering iron solder pcb circuit board gift ideas Aar
 The reviews there seem pretty enthusiastic, especially for the price. 

 I've not had any trouble using a couple of cheap pencil irons, just thinking I should finally "move up" to adjustable temperature control.


----------



## nickosha

I have that soldering station, Earwax, except mine is MPJA branded. It works decently, but I just started doing DIY so I really don't have anything to compare it to. The complaints I have with it are that it takes a few minutes to heat up, the cord is stiff enough that it still retains some of the shape that it came in, and that the iron pencil holder is annoying in that it is two parts and they aren't connected so the inside one can come out partway accidentally. The temperature is also color coded, but you get used to that and learn where it needs to be.


----------

