# Poll:   Do Power Conditioners Help or Hurt ?



## upstateguy

Over the years I've read that power conditioners both help and hurt the sound.
   
  Some say it makes the sound sterile while some say it makes the sound cleaner.
   
  What's going on?
   
  What are your Power Conditioner Impressions?
   
  USG


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## Uncle Erik

I'm not entirely convinced power conditioners do either.

Every piece of gear comes with power conditioning in its power supply. If the power supply is inadequate, then it's not a good piece of gear.

I'm only in favor of isolation transformers and RFI filters. An isolation transformer will kill ground loops (assuming you have one) and also take any DC off the line, which isn't good for power transformers. A RFI filter removes RFI. RFI isn't always there, but a filter is like $3, so I put them in builds just because.

I like surge protectors, too. Though I unplug stuff if there's an electrical storm coming through.


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## KingStyles

I never thought they would make that big of a difference until I received my APS Purepower 700. It takes the incoming ac and converts it to dc and stores it in a battery and then outputs a perfectly 120 sine wave out. I bought it to stop my line from sagging causing noise issues with my tube amp when the air conditioner and such kick on. I came to realize it was of the biggest improvements I have done to my system. The bass increased dramatically bringing out quiet bass lines I hadnt noticed before in some of my music. It also allowed more detail to come through and just took away a layer of grunge dropping the noise floor and allowing a clarity/transparency I have never been able to achieve before. If I had to rebuild my system, it would be one of the first things I would buy.
   
  I had a monster power power conditioner before the APS and it didnt make a difference with it in or out of my system. I left it in to protect from surges, but that is about all that it was good for.


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Over the years I've read that power conditioners both help and hurt the sound.
> 
> Some say it makes the sound sterile while some say it makes the sound cleaner.
> 
> ...


 

 All true.  It depends on what's being plugged in and the power supply of equipment.
  Maybe lower-end gear benefit more?  I don't really know much on the subject, except that my Belkin PureAV filter/protector/isolator makes my lowly DAC smoother and more detailed with better bass response, imaging, extension at the extremes, and the list goes on.  Not a massive difference, but not subtle in the least.
  My rig sounds a bit better with my transports plugged into the filter, too.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Power Conditioning in the form of isolation Xformers and now Balananced Power has been beneficial for me. The improvements are not night and day, but noticeable. Music and video plays either way, but in my systems, the benefits are visually and audibly apparent.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Interesting. Lamm Reference mono's, Meridian CDPs, Manley, PSE, Quicksilver, EAD, Wyred 4 Sound, and other upscale gear I've personally owned over the years realized improvements to me. I "thought" they were all good pieces of gear. I agree that isolation provides the most benefit, and I recommend isolation via balanced power.    
  
  Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Every piece of gear comes with power conditioning in its power supply. If the power supply is inadequate, then it's not a good piece of gear.


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## kevin gilmore

The question as specified is to broad to give a reasonable answer.
   
  Lots of things are called power conditioners.
   
  Some are as simple as a few MOV's, maybe a parallel input inductor and a couple of capacitors.
  These things are useless. Don't help, Don't hurt, Don't do anything.
   
  Some are parallel resonant inductors. Richard Gray's units are such a device.
   
  Some are isolation transformers, and some of these things are harmonically neutralized.
  Wonderful for removing ground loops and making an ultra noise free background.
  The more iron and more weight the better. If you don't get a hernia moving the thing its
  not big enough.
   
  Then there are many versions of UPS things. Most of which produce horrible square waves, truncated
  sine waves, or various versions of PWM usually in the name of efficiency. APC and Eaton make such
  devices, absolutely great for computer farms, horrible for audio.
   
  True sine wave regenerators (i.e. first turn the ac into dc, possibly into a battery, then turn back into AC) are
  very inefficient, typically wasting 50% of the input power. The PSaudio powerplant is one such item.
  The old levinson monster mono block amplifiers did this internally for all of the input and gain stages.
   
  Other things like the monster with the motor driven variac do an effective job of buck/boost and ground
  isolation.


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## KingStyles

Quote: 





> True sine wave regenerators (i.e. first turn the ac into dc, possibly into a battery, then turn back into AC) are
> very inefficient, typically wasting 50% of the input power. The PSaudio powerplant is one such item.
> The old levinson monster mono block amplifiers did this internally for all of the input and gain stages.


 
  Actually the APS purepower series does very well in this area. It has an efficiency rating of 85% -92% depending on load.


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## DaveBSC

The question do power conditioners help or hurt can't really be answered with a simple yes or no. Some help, other hurt, others don't do anything. In general the cheap stuff is nearly worthless. Surge/spike "protection" is provided via noisy, sound degrading sacrificial MOVs that are ineffective at stopping most kinds of power problems. The cheap power strips also almost always use a type of power filter that severely limits current, which is why you will see dedicated "high current" or "amplifier" outlets with less filtering - avoid.
   
  Once you get past the junky Monster Cable stuff, companies attempt to deal with AC line noise in a large number of different ways. Active regeneration is not the holy grail that companies like Exact Power, PS Audio, or PurePower make it out to be. I've heard a few of these, both the old linear amp based heat monsters, and the new efficient digital amp variety, and while good, I don't think they are in the same league as the best passive conditioners.
   
  Balanced transformers are probably one of the oldest types of conditioners, but the best models from B-P-T and Silver Circle can still sound fantastic. The downside is that a big enough transformer for a full system is going to be _heavy, _and there's a possibility of annoying transformer hum.
   
  Capacitor based conditioners can also be superb, and they don't have the weight problem of a big transformer. No hum either. IMO the Audience Teflon conditioners are the best of this type. There are also inductor/capacitor based models, which I think is how the Running Springs and Isotek units work.
   
  Then you have the really out there stuff - Synergistic Powercell, the Audio-Magic black boxes, and the newest Shunyata models which have moved away from capacitors and now just use purely passive noise reduction compounds in big tubes.


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## 9pintube

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> The question do power conditioners help or hurt can't really be answered with a simple yes or no. Some help, other hurt, others don't do anything. In general the cheap stuff is nearly worthless. Surge/spike "protection" is provided via noisy, sound degrading sacrificial MOVs that are ineffective at stopping most kinds of power problems. The cheap power strips also almost always use a type of power filter that severely limits current, which is why you will see dedicated "high current" or "amplifier" outlets with less filtering - avoid.


 
  I do agree with your thoughts *DaveBSC*! Use these only if you have nothing else.. I, myself really hear or (Don't hear) any noise when I stuck in a "Quantum Charger" built by Bybee Technologies into my Head phone system.... My Main system uses the "Clean Line Conditioning" by VansEvers, along with Tube Lambda power supplies....... So Some work and some limit current/power and add their own noise.....PS.. here's when you need to have some (richer and friendly) audiophile buddies that have the latest and greatest "Stuff" and will let you try different types!  Thanks Larry!!!


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## Lenni

I was to consider trying the PS Audio AV Power Center 5000. help or hurt?


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## Prog Rock Man

The poll needed the option of sometimes. My mains conditioner has been used in four houses and its effects have varied with each one, which must be down to how noisy the mains are in the first place.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Has the effect been so minimal that you didn't need some form of conditioning? 
   
  Personally, my music and video systems have always benefited, even with new infrastructure (e.g. new housing and surrounding developemet). So, to me the Yes or No vote is approrpriate. 
   
  In fact, I no longer wonder if there will be a difference. Becuase the difference is always audible and visible, all my music and video systems (in different rooms in my case) are sourced from conditioned AC (heavy, back-braking balanced power isolation xformers). 
   
  Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> The poll needed the option of sometimes. My mains conditioner has been used in four houses and its effects have varied with each one, which must be down to how noisy the mains are in the first place.


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## Prog Rock Man

Yes, one of the houses, it made no difference at all to the hifi or the TV. Another house it made no difference to the hifi, but did to the TV. Presently I have two as it was so clear and I am sure the use of a laptop as a source had made things worse. The other houses a CDP was the source.


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## IPodPJ

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Actually the APS purepower series does very well in this area. It has an efficiency rating of 85% -92% depending on load.


 

 Yes, and the new PS Audio PerfectWave power plants have an 85% - 90% efficiency so I'm not sure where Gilmore is getting his figures from.
  50% efficiency would be horrible and I can't imagine anyone wanting to use such a device.
   
  I do think regenerators make a positive difference overall (some items don't work well with them, it just depends on your component).  I have a P5 and I think it's a nice step up from their old model, the PPP, which wound up dying and frying some of my gear.  The P5s are also made here in the U.S. so that's nice for a change.
   
  I have mixed feelings about power conditioners... they often do as much harm as they do good.


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> ...
> I have mixed feelings about power conditioners... they often do as much harm as they do good.


 

 Like how?


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Yes, and the new PS Audio PerfectWave power plants have an 85% - 90% efficiency so I'm not sure where Gilmore is getting his figures from.
> 50% efficiency would be horrible and I can't imagine anyone wanting to use such a device.
> 
> I do think regenerators make a positive difference overall (some items don't work well with them, it just depends on your component).  I have a P5 and I think it's a nice step up from their old model, the PPP, which wound up dying and frying some of my gear.  The P5s are also made here in the U.S. so that's nice for a change.


 
   
  I think Kevin was referring to products like the original PS Power Plants (P300/500/600/1000/1200) which used linear amplifiers which waste half their power. The P1000 and P1200 were absolute monsters. The PPP changed to a switching amplifier so the efficiency improved quite a bit. I haven't heard of PPPs actually taking out connected equipment when they crap out before, wow that sucks. Admittedly I lost most of my interest in PS products when my own PPP died, and after being less than impressed with the sound quality of their other products like the "amazing" gaincell amplifiers and their old power cords so I stopped reading their forums regularly.
   
  I'm curious how PS responded to your issue. Some of my stuff is irreplaceable, so I would be *royally *mad if that happened to me.


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Like how?


 

 There are lots of reports of them sucking the dynamics out of the music, particularly when used on amps.
   
  I decide how well they work by listening without music and turning the volume to see when background hiss becomes apparent. I think they are a bit like Dolby on cassettes. You could use Dolby to reduce hiss, but that could flatten the dynamics at the same time.


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## TheAttorney

+1 to just about all from Dave BSC and other comments along the lines of "it depends....".
   
  A year or so ago, I posted a rave review of the Audience power conditioner in the high end forum - using the "cheaper" non-teflon version. At the time, I was bowled over by the improvement it gave, and I'll soon be re-appraising it in a power-circuit cable shootout, where I'll be comparing the conditioner v standard dedicated mains spur v Furutech audiophile dedicated mains spur v original ring circuit.  Recently moved house and took the opportunity to install 2 dedicated spurs. This was based on the question: If the last 3 feet of power cable makes a difference, then what about the previous feet coming from the Consumer Unit (fuse box). And are the effects cumulative? A brief initial test gave an interesting and slightly unexpected result.
   
  Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I do think regenerators make a positive difference overall (some items don't work well with them, it just depends on your component).  I have a P5 and I think it's a nice step up from their old model, the PPP, which wound up dying and frying some of my gear.  The P5s are also made here in the U.S. so that's nice for a change.
> I have mixed feelings about power conditioners... they often do as much harm as they do good.


 
   
  The PPP I feel is an example of "it depends". I tried to audition it against the Audience, but didn't because 2 high end dealers stopped selling it, One because their customers reported squashing of dynamics when using power amps (but source equipment was fine). The other because of the occasional frying issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 which, in the UK at least, only happened in a particular mode when power amps  in use.  PS Audio seem like a good company and I think they've changed the design since then, but I haven't been following the story for some time.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





theattorney said:


> The PPP I feel is an example of "it depends". I tried to audition it against the Audience, but didn't because 2 high end dealers stopped selling it, One because their customers reported squashing of dynamics when using power amps (but source equipment was fine). The other because of the occasional frying issue
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Active regenerators definitely limit current to some degree, despite the assurances from the manufacturer that they don't (up to the 1200 watt limit or whatever the rated output is). I think they are definitely best used on source equipment, or very low powered amplifiers with relatively steady current demands. The PPP definitely had some serious QC issues, I think partially due to design problems, and partially due to issues with the plant in China. I would hope that the new PW Power Plants are much better, but my $5K would still go to RSA, Audience, or Silver Circle.


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## Arnaldo

Is anyone here familiar with units like the PS Audio Duet, Shunyata Hydra 2, Furman AC-215A, or anything similar? Would they offer any benefits for a simple 2 component system consisting of a Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD Player (with VSE Terra Firma Lite Balanced Upgrade) and a SPL Phonitor? I'd be open as well for more costly options if necessary. Or does it make more sense to just buy a cheap power-strip from the local hardware store?


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





arnaldo said:


> Is anyone here familiar with units like the PS Audio Duet, Shunyata Hydra 2, Furman AC-215A, or anything similar? Would they offer any benefits for a simple 2 component system consisting of a Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD Player (with VSE Terra Firma Lite Balanced Upgrade) and a SPL Phonitor? I'd be open as well for more costly options if necessary. Or does it make more sense to just buy a cheap power-strip from the local hardware store?


 

 The Duet is surprisingly effective for its modest price, and is a great entry level power conditioner and component protector. The Duet actually provides real protection against surges and spikes, which the Monster strips and similar "surge protectors" do not. Bbeyond that, it does definitely improve power line quality, particularly in a headphone setup where massive current draw is not a requirement. I'm not familiar with that particular Furman, but they do have a good reputation for solid products. 
   
  The Hydra 2 is just insanely overpriced, much like the 4 and 6 versions. Basically it's an outlet with a $2 noise suppression cap on it wired to an IEC inlet and put in a box. The 4 and 6 are just more outlets in bigger boxes. The only component protection is the same type of crappy MOV you'll find in a Walmart power strip. It's not that they don't do anything, the caps are effective for what they do, it's that Shunyata charges some $500 for the Hydra 2, with a cost to them of _maybe _$50, and that's being generous. The 4 and 6 have fancier cases, but I can't imagine the build cost is that much higher. A DIY Hydra is extremely easy to make - get a nice Hubbell or Leviton outlet (or the hardware store special if you don't care about that part), the same $2 Vishay or similar cap that Shunyata uses, some hook-up wire, an IEC inlet (or you can directly wire the AC cord to the outlet), and a box. If you build it without the MOV there won't be any protection (not that the MOV really provides any anyway) but it will sound better.
   
  Some much better alternatives to the Hydra 2 are the Silver Circle Juice Box Jr, the PI Audio MajikBUSS, and the B-P-T CPC.


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## Arnaldo

Thank you so much for your help. Like many others with no experience on the subject, I was inclined to think that the more expensive Hydra would be more effective. I'll research the ones you mentioned, the Silver Circle Juice Box Jr, PI Audio MajikBUSS, and B-P-T CPC, but at this stage, I'm inclined to follow your recommendation and go with the PS Audio Duet. Again, thanks for your input on the matter!
  
  Quote: 





davebsc said:


> [...]


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





arnaldo said:


> Thank you so much for your help. Like many others with no experience on the subject, I was inclined to think that the more expensive Hydra would be more effective. I'll research the ones you mentioned, the Silver Circle Juice Box Jr, PI Audio MajikBUSS, and B-P-T CPC, but at this stage, I'm inclined to follow your recommendation and go with the PS Audio Duet. Again, thanks for your input on the matter!


 
   
  Sure. Another option you may want to take a look at is the Audience Ar2p. It's a bit more expensive than the others, but it plugs straight into the wall so you do not need to buy a power cord for it (good ones are $150+).


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## Arnaldo

I actually saw the Ar2p on sale while looking for the Duet. The problem for me though is a lack of space near my wall outlet. Thanks again!
   
  PS: I'm still in shock over your revelations about the Hydra...
  
  Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Sure. Another option you may want to take a look at is the Audience Ar2p. It's a bit more expensive than the others, but it plugs straight into the wall so you do not need to buy a power cord for it (good ones are $150+).


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## Dynobot

Some help, some hurt, some do absolutely nothing.
   
  I had a PS Audio Duet, it did absolutely nothing to the sound. Absolutely no difference between it and plugging into the wall with any product I tried.
  I had a Monster power conditioner that helped with digital gear [blacker background] but at the same time hurt in dynamics [lost some crispness and depth in sound-stage]
  I have a AGD power filter that helps digital gear with the 70db filter outlet, helps my tube gear on the 50db filter and seems to not make any difference with the DC filter outlet.
   
  Of course my answer will not represent everyone's experiences, ymmv, synergy is the key......etc etc etc


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





arnaldo said:


> I actually saw the Ar2p on sale while looking for the Duet. The problem for me though is a lack of space near my wall outlet. Thanks again!
> 
> PS: I'm still in shock over your revelations about the Hydra...


 

 Gotcha.
  This is what the inside of the $1,000 Hydra 4 looks like. Two outlets with one suppression cap each, a couple of buss bars, a switch, and a MOV. Thousand bucks. Just amazing.
   

   
  For comparison, here's what goes inside Audience's AR6-T:


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## Arnaldo

Truly unbelievable! Basically, the Hydra is an expensive empty box. Your pics should be a mandatory requirement for anyone on the market for power conditioners, regardless of price. And it's a good thing we have threads like this to expose these things...
  
  Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Gotcha.
> This is what the inside of the $1,000 Hydra 4 looks like. Two outlets with one suppression cap each, a couple of buss bars, a switch, and a MOV. Thousand bucks. Just amazing. [...]
> 
> For comparison, here's what goes inside Audience's AR6-T: [...]


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





dynobot said:


> Some help, some hurt, some do absolutely nothing.
> 
> I had a PS Audio Duet, it did absolutely nothing to the sound. Absolutely no difference between it and plugging into the wall with any product I tried.
> I had a Monster power conditioner that helped with digital gear [blacker background] but at the same time hurt in dynamics [lost some crispness and depth in sound-stage]
> ...


 

 Absolutely agree that the conditioner experience can be positive, negative, or nil. I've heard some improvements from the Duet, but I would probably recommend it more for its protection capabilities than its sound. The MajikBUSS and UberBUSS are a significant step up in terms of sound improvements compared to the Duet, but they also cost quite a bit more. Most products at the $250 level do a lot more harm than good.


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## Dynobot

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Most products at the $250 level do a lot more harm than good.


 


  You are right...
   
  In my case I found that using a good isolation transformer on noisy gear like PC's, TV's etc to stop them from polluting the AC line worked best for a low cost solution.
   
  After that, if i still felt I needed some quality AC I would rather spend $1K on a dedicated AC line instead of a Power Conditioner.
   
  It might be worth pricing it out.....


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## DaveBSC

For further illustration, here's what the inside of the basic B-P-T CPC looks like. It starts at $499 ($399 on Audiogon), and you can basically go to the moon with it. That's one of the things I like about B-P-T, both the CPC and the balanced transformer models can be configured basically any way you want them.


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## Arnaldo

I've been doing some reading on BPT and basically they offer incredible value over the competition. Their BP-1 Ultra, for instance, is going for just $849.00 over at Audiogon. But at 40 lbs and 10 outlets, it's way too much (in the physical sense) for my needs. The CPC is more reasonable, but BPT should consider adding models tailored to smaller high-end systems...
  
  Quote: 





davebsc said:


> For further illustration, here's what the inside of the basic B-P-T CPC looks like. It starts at $499 ($399 on Audiogon), and you can basically go to the moon with it. That's one of the things I like about B-P-T, both the CPC and the balanced transformer models can be configured basically any way you want them [...]


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





arnaldo said:


> I've been doing some reading on BPT and basically they offer incredible value over the competition. Their BP-1 Ultra, for instance, is going for just $849.00 over at Audiogon. But at 40 lbs and 10 outlets, it's way too much (in the physical sense) for my needs. The CPC is more reasonable, but BPT should consider adding models tailored to smaller high-end systems...


 
   
  I agree that BPT offers a lot for the money, particularly with the BP-1 which I think can compete with _very _expensive stuff when used with headphone setups or very low powered amplifiers. Keep in mind that the weight and size is pretty much entirely due to the transformer. They could offer one with only two outlets similar to the Furman IT Reference 7i, but the unit would still be basically the same size. You don't have to actually use all 10 outlets you know (and the GFCI outlet is really there as a protection mechanism, so there are only 8 outlets that you'd want to use). I'm sure Chris would be happy to build you a CPC or BP-1 with a single high-end outlet with all the trimmings on it, and leave the rest in the basic config.


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## Elysian

A lot of the really helpful advice in this thread, and in a few older ones, led me to purchase the Sola MCR.  I got a nice deal on a NOS model from an official distributor who is phasing out their Sola gear.  The MSRP is pretty pricey, though nowhere near Shunyata prices!
   
  This thing is heavy!  Some users have reported using 120lb+ cvts, and this 70lb anchor was troublesome enough to move around.  I got rid of the budget Monster cable strip I was previously using and plugged my GES and gamma2 directly into the cvt.
   
  I wasn't really expecting much difference in the SQ.  I mostly bought the cvt as insurance for the BHSE I have on order, as I would probably have a heart attack if a surge damaged it.
   
  I tried a listening session immediately after turning on all my equipment and was disappointed.  Everything sounded considerably more thin and insubstantial than I had remembered.  I wasn't too surprised though, as the GES does not sound very good until it's been on for at least an hour.
   
  After an hour passed, I tried another critical listening session.  The difference was subtle but unmistakable.  The 'fuzziness' I had attributed to tubes and a sub-optimal amp for the O2s was mostly gone.  The biggest difference is that everything just sounds cleaner now.  The bass is a little tighter, the trebles are more crisp and defined, and the O2s have a little bit more of that electrostat sound, where the music just seems to materialize out of thin air.  The effects weren't as dramatic as some audiophiles have written, but they were appreciable.  I also now have the peace of mind that my gear is protected from everything short of a direct lightning strike or super soaker.
   
*In conclusion,* for a low or mid-fi user, the SQ did not increase enough to justify the price.  For someone who skis the slopes of summit-fi, I'd say it was worth it.  More importantly, however, is that this should do a better job protecting gear than much more expensive audiophile power conditioning gear.  Cvts can regularly be found in hospital, lab, and manufacturing surplus sales.  If you don't care for aesthetics, you can get a unit which needs to be wired, and save another 70-80%.
   
  There's a downside to the cvt: it gives off an audible hum, somewhere between a desk fan between medium and high speed.  With loud music it's not noticeable, but at healthy listening levels, it's a little annoying.  I'm going to try moving it 20-30 feet away and use extension cables to connect the cvt directly to the amp and DAC to minimize the hum.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





elysian said:


> There's a downside to the cvt: it gives off an audible hum, somewhere between a desk fan between medium and high speed.  With loud music it's not noticeable, but at healthy listening levels, it's a little annoying.  I'm going to try moving it 20-30 feet away and use extension cables to connect the cvt directly to the amp and DAC to minimize the hum.


 

 For me, that's enough to end it right there. A B-P-T or Silver Circle may hum if there's excessive DC on the line, but otherwise they shouldn't make any noise. An Audience will never make a sound and can be carried with one hand, there's a price to pay for all of that convenience of course. The only thing I allow to be more than 0dB in my system is my PC, and I've gone to considerable lengths to make sure that it's quieter than the 30ish dB noise floor of the room.


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## Elysian

I had to end up moving it to a closet, which almost completely cuts out the hum, and once headphones are on, the hum is pretty much unnoticeable.  Since it gets hot, though, I'll need to stick a fan in the cabinet to make sure the air circulates.
   
  For a 0db solution, I agree that this is far from ideal.  I chose it an overkill solution endorsed by the DIY/engineering type.  My biggest priority was protecting the gear on the other end of the line, and in this case, the more iron and the heavier it is, the better.  I've read good things about the Audience and probably would've gone in that direction if I had different priorities.
   
  On the bright side, it means I get to run cabling on the other side of the room, so shielded power cables are a lower priority.
   
  Edit: Interestingly enough, Steve Nugent agrees with some people who have said that shielded power cords do sound worse:
  http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil
  Quote: 





> Empirical testing has shown that standard shielded 14 gauge stranded power cord sounds less dynamic than unshielded 14 gauge stranded cord when used with audio components that benefit from improved cords. The impedance of the AC electrical system is extremely low and susceptibility to magnetic and RF fields is extremely low for power cables so the benefit is questionable at best. Unfortunately, some of the commercially available shielded cords appear to make some systems sound better, but are actually "tone controls" for taming badly matched or designed components. There is some benefit to shielding if you are trying to protect unshielded nearby unshielded interconnects from the fields generated by the cord itself.


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## scootermafia

I got one of those APC S1500 power conditioner/voltage stabilizer/battery backup back when they were only $250 on Vanns.com.  What an insanecrazy deal, it used to cost 1500 bucks, and it weighs 70 pounds...works great!


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





elysian said:


> Edit: Interestingly enough, Steve Nugent agrees with some people who have said that shielded power cords do sound worse:
> http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil


 
   
  I agree, for normal runs of 1-3 meters there's definitely an argument to be made for not shielding, especially when you can use a complex wire geometry that has some self shielding properties, as opposed to the typical 3-wire twist. For a 20 foot AC cord though, shielding may start to make some sense. I think the majority of the high-end power cords out there are not shielded.
   
  That said, I've told the story before of my old Dynaudio nearfield monitors buzzing every time my smartphone checked for new emails. GSM is known for being noisy, and the unshielded stock AC cords picked it right up. I replaced the stock cables with some PS Audio Prelude cords, and the buzzing was gone.


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## Elysian

Reminds me of when I used to leave my cell phone on top of my cheap Dell Optiplex at an old workplace.  Actually, that reminds me of a bug that Dell had, where incoming calls on certain phones (within close physical proximity of the Optiplex) would actually reboot the computer.  It took us awhile to figure out what was going on, and he was pretty peeved after losing more than a few spreadsheets and ppt decks!  I still remember the ever-present hum in the IEMs I used to run directly from the front-panel headphone out, which would completely go away as long as I was touching the metal chassis.
   
  I'll be running two 25ft Monoprice 14awg cables from the closet to my audio setup (one for amp, one for DAC), but the cables won't be anywhere near any other cables except each other, so hopefully it'll be fine.  Eventually I'd like to try out the Oyaide PA-23 cables for everything, but I think that money will be going into the SR009 fund instead   It was a pain trying to find a short flat plug extension that's 14AWG.  I actually couldn't explicitly find one, so I hope the Panamax one I ordered is 14AWG like all the cables for the rest of their equipment.
   
  scooter: I love the avatar, especially considering the business you're in


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





elysian said:


> Reminds me of when I used to leave my cell phone on top of my cheap Dell Optiplex at an old workplace.  Actually, that reminds me of a bug that Dell had, where incoming calls on certain phones (within close physical proximity of the Optiplex) would actually reboot the computer.  It took us awhile to figure out what was going on, and he was pretty peeved after losing more than a few spreadsheets and ppt decks!  I still remember the ever-present hum in the IEMs I used to run directly from the front-panel headphone out, which would completely go away as long as I was touching the metal chassis.
> 
> I'll be running two 25ft Monoprice 14awg cables from the closet to my audio setup (one for amp, one for DAC), but the cables won't be anywhere near any other cables except each other, so hopefully it'll be fine.  Eventually I'd like to try out the Oyaide PA-23 cables for everything, but I think that money will be going into the SR009 fund instead   It was a pain trying to find a short flat plug extension that's 14AWG.  I actually couldn't explicitly find one, so I hope the Panamax one I ordered is 14AWG like all the cables for the rest of their equipment.
> 
> scooter: I love the avatar, especially considering the business you're in


 

 Was the Optiplex the same machine that was known for exploding motherboard caps or something like that? I have to admit I've never heard of the "reboot by phone" feature. That's crazy.
   
  Neotech also makes a nice DIY AC wire for around the same money as the PA-23 called the NEP-3003. I think you had asked about connectors - the Marinco 5266 and 320IEC are the default choice. The 320 is a little bit expensive compared to the cheaper Schurter IECs, but it's worth it. Furutech AC connectors are really nice, but not cheap.


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## milosolo

PS Audio power re-generators FTW.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





milosolo said:


> PS Audio power re-generators FTW.


 

 In my experience, not really. The old models were space heaters and power hogs. The PPP solved those issues (though it still required a cooling fan) and I'm sorry but the quality control on those was flat out terrible. I'm not sure if it was the Chinese factory they used or just bad design, but PPPs died left and right, including my own, which fortunately had nothing connected to it when it kicked the bucket. One person here reported a dead PPP taking out equipment. If that happened to me I would be absolutely livid. A power conditioner is supposed to _protect _equipment, not _destroy _equipment.
   
  As if that weren't enough, they just don't sound all that great. The performance is decent, but PS marketing makes it seem like regeneration is the holy grail and it is not. The very best balanced transformers and models like the AR6-TS and Dmitri do a better job.


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