# The iBasso D12,  dual dacs . images . new Sysconcept optical cable . . Topkit by HiFlight. .



## jamato8

With many of the same features as the D10, the D12 has coax, optical and USB input and is single ended on the output. 
  The changes are the WM8740 to dual WM8740 DAC's, the PCM2906 to the PCM2906B
  It will have a new case, that is the same as the the PB1, which is a split case so opamp rolling is easier and you can use single or dual op amps. 
   

   

   
   
  The new Sys Concepts 1300 fiber cable:
   
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=365


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## vkvedam

Seems interesting, is it gonna have a balanced output and a SE?


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## jamato8

It is a single ended dac/amp. It has dual dacs like the D4, which is an excellent sounding dac and the PCM2906 is the B.


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## vkvedam

Does it have digital inputs similar to D10? Or is it a D10 with dual DACs and new box design?


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## jamato8

It is like the D10 with a new and easier to use case, which is the same as the PB1 case and has coax, optical and USB input.


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## HK_sends

I looked at the PB1 on iBasso's page but couldn't see it...what do you mean by split case?  Top and bottom halves of the enclosure?
  Any pics yet?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


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## richbass

When is it coming ?


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## furyagain

only wish it will have more power then D10
  atleast like D4 will be good..
   
  230mw  32ohm on D4
  100mw 32 ohm  on D10


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## jamato8

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I looked at the PB1 on iBasso's page but couldn't see it...what do you mean by split case?  Top and bottom halves of the enclosure?
> Any pics yet?
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  The top half and bottom half are split. You can remove the two top front and rear screws and the top half of the case comes off exposing everything so changing the op amps is easier. 
   
  It has the same battery as the D10 so the power should be about the same, depending upon the op amp used.


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## HK_sends

Cool!  Thanks for the info!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


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## barleyguy

Quote: 





furyagain said:


> only wish it will have more power then D10
> atleast like D4 will be good..
> 
> 230mw  32ohm on D4
> 100mw 32 ohm  on D10


 

 The D4 uses a 9 volt battery, and the D10 uses a 4.7 volt rechargeable. That gives the D4 more power as well as larger voltage swings.  In order to increase the power of the D10, they'd likely have to move away from the rechargeable lithium battery.
   
  EDIT: BTW, there are opamps for the D10 that will increase the current, at the expense of battery life and possibly sound signature.


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## pekingduck

Announcement on iBasso's site
   
  http://www.ibasso.com/en/news/show.asp?ID=106


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## gilency

How about digital volume control?


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## Mad Max




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## madwolf

Hmmmm, Sounds interesting.
   
  Single ended on the output of the DAC or the OpAmp ? 
  Logically it should be at the DAC. 
   
  Would be even more interesting if there is a balance output to go with a balance amp.
  Wounder why we have such complicated design for portable, But I like.
   
  Waiting to get one and mod


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## barleyguy

Quote: 





gilency said:


> How about digital volume control?


 

 I prefer analog because it has finer granularity.  It can have balance issues, but as long as a company does quality control to eliminate the balance issues I'd rather have the analog.


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## Armaegis

Anyone know if we would be able to use the same opamps as we did for the D10?


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## Mad Max

Will depend on the voltage.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Anyone know if we would be able to use the same opamps as we did for the D10?


 

 Yes, same voltage but dual dacs, one for each channel and some other upgrades. Run time will be a little less but sound quality with the dual dacs and other improvements should go up a notch though I have always enjoyed the D10.


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## wuwhere

So all of my rollable opamps for the D10 should work on the D12 as well?


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Anyone know if we would be able to use the same opamps as we did for the D10?


 

 My question is the same as yours, so I emailed iBasso that question.


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## jamato8

The D12 takes the same op amps as the D10 but will use both single and dual op amps, which is a nice feature.


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## wuwhere

I'm good then with my D10 opamps


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## StVeronus

Quote: 





richbass said:


> When is it coming ?


 

 Their site now says "release it around September 20~25th."
   
http://www.ibasso.com/en/news/show.asp?ID=106


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## bakhtiar

Looking forward for the sound reviews and comparions.  I hope iBasso has solved the noise problem, when the charging circuit kicks in, and also provides better shield/grounding to minimized the EM interferences...
   
  BTW, what is the nickname for the D12 ? Is it going to be *King Cobra* ?


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## dwizard

Quote: 





bakhtiar said:


> ... and also provides better shield/grounding to minimized the EM interferences...)


 

 Yes I love my D10 it is very versatile but the EM interference is a big problem, I have to turn my mobile phone off to use it


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## charlie0904

Quote: 





bakhtiar said:


> Looking forward for the sound reviews and comparions.  I hope iBasso has solved the noise problem, when the charging circuit kicks in, and also provides better shield/grounding to minimized the EM interferences...
> 
> BTW, what is the nickname for the D12 ? Is it going to be *King Cobra* ?


 

 D12 - Anaconda


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## Mad Max

Basilisk would sound cooler than Anaconda.


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## wuwhere

The D12 Echidna from the Greek Mythology.


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## SpudHarris

Subscribed!


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## moonsurf

Tuned in!


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## johangrb

Pre-orders?


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## Palpatine

Hmmm. I wish they would have used 9 volt. Guess I will still get the D4. Dual DACs does sound great though.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





johangrb said:


> Pre-orders?


 

 No preorders, I checked. It should be out on the 25th of this month.


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## Randius

Hope someone can do a comparison between this, the Toucan and the previous D10


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## shaddix

D12 DAC is in another class from the fiio E7 DAC?
   
  I currently have a µdac2 and a fiio e7 but looking for something of similar form factor with s/pdif input. D10/D12 looks like it may fit the bill.


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## barleyguy

Quote: 





shaddix said:


> D12 DAC is in another class from the fiio E7 DAC?
> 
> I currently have a µdac2 and a fiio e7 but looking for something of similar form factor with s/pdif input. D10/D12 looks like it may fit the bill.


 

 I've done a direct comparison between the uDac2 and the D10 as DACs, and IMO the D10 sounds significantly better.  It seems to have greater ability to resolve detail as well as having more "character".
   
  Not sure about the D12 yet, but I suspect it will be as good or better than the D10 since iBasso is obviously testing them against each other.


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## anadin

This sounds very interesting.


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## jamato8

The D12 with dual dacs and a better receiver chip and an improvement in other components and lessons learned in design, should have the D12 better in all areas. A few more days and it will be out. Then the comparison will begin.


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## Townyj

All these new portables coming out is doing my head in :/


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## wdahm519

So, will the D12 be released tomorrow?  I see that the ibasso.com page is DOWN, which means they are probably adding the D12 right now!


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## jamato8

I guess tomorrow but most likely on Monday, which is the 27th here or day after tomorrow as we are a day ahead.


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## debitsohn

its out! only 20 made in the first batch! order now!


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## mrarroyo

I just sent iBasso a message requesting some information on the D12. I personally love the way the D4 sounds when fed via USB, using HiFlight's topkit.


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## debitsohn

what exactly is a topkit?


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## wuwhere

Opamps on a pcb that you can swap with the original opamps in your D10 or D12.
  
  Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> what exactly is a topkit?


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## charlie0904

http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=63
  i got it correct. do i get a compliment unit?   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





charlie0904 said:


> D12 - Anaconda


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





charlie0904 said:


> http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=63
> i got it correct. do i get a compliment unit?


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## barleyguy

I really like the look of the D12.  The distressed aluminum effect is purty.  If it sounds as good as the D10, I'm going to have to get one.
   
  Unfortunately I can't afford it until November 1st.  But they'll probably be be low supply until then anyway.  So I'll just add it to the wishlist.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (BTW, Is anyone planning to bring a D12 to RMAF in Denver?)


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## wuwhere

Its not mentioned in their website, but I believe in their previous description, you can roll two single channel or one dual channel opamps?
  
  Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> I just sent iBasso a message requesting some information on the D12. I personally love the way the D4 sounds when fed via USB, using HiFlight's topkit.


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## mrarroyo

Yes you can use single op-amps.


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## Armaegis

Well, it's looking like it's either this or the XM6 for Christmas...


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## HK_sends

It looks really nice!  I wonder if they will have a black finish as well?
  Definitely looks worth saving my few pennies for...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


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## jamato8

They have described the dac as sounding every bit as good as the D4, which is excellent for a dac. With improvements to the amp section, I imagine for IEM's and a number of phones, using this optical, USB or coax should be a very good listen. The number of opamps now that can be used being single and double also really opens up the field.


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## mrarroyo

^ I received the same description and it "sounds" like a nice improvement over the D10.


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## wuwhere

D4 is USB only. D12 SPDIF should be better.


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## wolfen68

Well, I ordered one....but have no idea if I got one of the first batch.


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## jamato8

That is true. The D12 with coax and optical input will put it up one notch. I look forward to impressions. I have a feeling it will be a long lived combination dac/amp.


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## wuwhere

I wonder if a pair of OPA627AP are rollable in the D12.


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## jamato8

I would think the voltage would be too low for them to work correctly. They can take, relative to the 5 volt systems of late, a lot more DC.


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## wuwhere

They should have put a higher voltage battery, like the one for the Toucan.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I would think the voltage would be too low for them to work correctly. They can take, relative to the 5 volt systems of late, a lot more DC.


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## jamato8

I don't think there is room. If a high voltage batter where used, it would have been of lower mA's so the run time would have been pretty short. When the new super batteries come out some time in the future (nano tubes that will more than increase storage by 10 times for the same space) the storage will allow for a little battery of higher voltage to also have plenty of ampere reserve. Imagine a AAA with 10 amps of reserve.


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## wuwhere

Understand, it would make the D12 bigger and more expensive. Those future batteries won't come cheap. I'm just amazed that the D12 is only $285 with an opamp rolling kit. When the D10 first came out, it was $275.
   
  They might even sell it less if you tell them to not include the "*optical cable, USB cable, 3.5 to 3.5 interconnect, rubber feet, OPAMP rolling kit".* *




*
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I don't think there is room. If a high voltage batter where used, it would have been of lower mA's so the run time would have been pretty short. When the new super batteries come out some time in the future (nano tubes that will more than increase storage by 10 times for the same space) the storage will allow for a little battery of higher voltage to also have plenty of ampere reserve. Imagine a AAA with 10 amps of reserve.


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## LevA

am I wrong to expect that the DAC performance will almost be identical to D4? maybe just a slight (if any) change due to optical in?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





leva said:


> am I wrong to expect that the DAC performance will almost be identical to D4? maybe just a slight (if any) change due to optical in?


 

 It should be about the same but with the optical or coax input, which I prefer over USB, it might be a bit better. Time, as usual, will tell. I look forward to impressions.


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## LevA

had the D10 and sold it. I'm still considering buying a new DAC so D12 is tempting. 
  look forward to impressions and topkit rollings that will soon follow


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## Randius

Emailed iBasso and they replied that black version will be available in the next batch. Also the phone out is better than SE on the Toucan. That coupled with DAC performance comparable to D4 make it very tempting. 
   
  First batch is already out of stock. That's really fast...


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## LevA

i actually like the silver/ grey color...


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## Randius

Quote: 





leva said:


> i actually like the silver/ grey color...


 

 Well, either colour is fine with me. Just that a black D12 will match my black iPod video better


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## debitsohn

Quote: 





leva said:


> i actually like the silver/ grey color...


 

 me too. i had the pb1/db1 in black and it was okay but the silver looks pretty nice. plus the rest of my stuff is silver too


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## HiFlight

As I have been in contact with iBasso regarding their choice of opamps for the D12, I am not sure that I will be able to develop a Topkit that will improve on the sound of the D12 with stock opamps.   As I should be receiving my D12 shortly, it will be interesting to see what the possibilities are.   The limiting factor on the use of different opamps is, of course, the 5v power supply. 
   
  I will supply a D12 Topkit only if I can provide a significant sound improvement over the stock configuration or same SQ with improved battery run time.


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## wuwhere

That's too bad. By the way, which opamps and buffers are stock? What's included in the rolling package?
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> As I have been in contact with iBasso regarding their choice of opamps for the D12, I am not sure that I will be able to develop a Topkit that will improve on the sound of the D12 with stock opamps.   As I should be receiving my D12 shortly, it will be interesting to see what the possibilities are.   The limiting factor on the use of different opamps is, of course, the 5v power supply.
> 
> I will supply a D12 Topkit only if I can provide a significant sound improvement over the stock configuration or same SQ with improved battery run time.


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## mrarroyo

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> As I have been in contact with iBasso regarding their choice of opamps for the D12, I am not sure that I will be able to develop a Topkit that will improve on the sound of the D12 with stock opamps.   As I should be receiving my D12 shortly, it will be interesting to see what the possibilities are.   The limiting factor on the use of different opamps is, of course, the 5v power supply.
> 
> I will supply a D12 Topkit only if I can provide a significant sound improvement over the stock configuration or same SQ with improved battery run time.


 

 Ron, how about the AD8656 and AD8616? For that matter the AD8066 and AD797 in a dual single to dual amp adapter.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Ron, how about the AD8656 and AD8616? For that matter the AD8066 and AD797 in a dual single to dual amp adapter.


 
  Both the AD8656 and 8616 are dual opamps, so only one would be needed.  You could use one AD8066 or 2 AD8065 single channel opamps.  All of the SOIC opamps would need to be mounted on DIP adapters.  I doubt that the AD797 will work with only 5v.    There are a couple of Linear opamps that should sound good in the D12.  Many of the better sounding Linear opamps are single-channel and could easily be biased for Class A operation.


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## psc001

This amp might be the one I am looking for. The Ibasso site says it's sold out until October. Does that mean somebody has a unit for a review with pics?


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## hvu

Since the amp was just released I would give it another week or two before a review pops up.


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## jamato8

I should have one in a couple of days. I look forward to hearing what changes there may be between the very stable D10 and the new D12.


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## hvu

I wonder how the D12 stacks up against your D10 with blackgate caps?


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## jamato8

I will find out. I don't plan on using hard to drive phones, as that makes no sense. I will use phones that aren't meant to be used with an amp with its voltage swing and current capabilities, which will be the Ultrasone Ed. 9, JH13 Pros, Koss PortaPros and a couple of others. I look forward to the comparison and to impressions from others.


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## LevA

please give us some impression on the regular D12 before you upgrade to black gates.
  btw, how's life treating you on a tropical island? adjusted to the slow pace of life?


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## jamato8

I may not modify it and I definitely will not in the beginning or I won't have a baseline. 
   
  Island life is slow, to a a point. I have adjusted some but not to other areas like requesting something by purchase order and waiting, and waiting and waiting. There is a lot of US tax dollar waste here. The economy has been propped up with 80 million a year and I see things that piss me off that My hard earned tax dollars are not being used effectively. It hasn't helped the community at large either. As one person put it very recently, "we have been spoon fed (by US money) and look at the results'. So that is where it is. Take away the US dollars and the system would collapse. There are many good people here though and in general I like the culture but alcohol use is on the rise with a corresponding physical abuse problem on the rise.


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## GeorgeGoodman

This is very interesting, especially because I am getting an Iriver H120 in the mail. That player has optical out, so it should sound really good with the D12 utilizing its DAC. BTW, I wonder if Luminette with his two year old "leaving portable hi-fi, its too silly" thread has as much of a case now as he did two years ago. His views on real portability might still be valid, but with these new amps and DACs coming out, the game may be changing concerning the sound quality of portable devices. Not that portable-fi will be a substitute for home-fi, but it certainly might be closer now. Somebody please tell me if I have no idea what I am talking about, because I am trying to make sense.


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## wuwhere

I believe since that was written, portable has progressed a bit, just off the top of my head - JH audio with their JH13 (6 drivers) & 16 (8 drivers) and JH3A, balanced portable amps, balanced portable DAC, HM-801 & 602, and the upcoming CypherLabs Solo. And progress will continue, flash memory price is dropping, portable batteries are getting smaller with more stored power - that's the way technology is.
  
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> This is very interesting, especially because I am getting an Iriver H120 in the mail. That player has optical out, so it should sound really good with the D12 utilizing its DAC. BTW, I wonder if Luminette with his two year old "leaving portable hi-fi, its too silly" thread has as much of a case now as he did two years ago. His views on real portability might still be valid, but with these new amps and DACs coming out, the game may be changing concerning the sound quality of portable devices. Not that portable-fi will be a substitute for home-fi, but it certainly might be closer now. Somebody please tell me if I have no idea what I am talking about, because I am trying to make sense.


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## LevA

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I may not modify it and I definitely will not in the beginning or I won't have a baseline.
> 
> Island life is slow, to a a point. I have adjusted some but not to other areas like requesting something by purchase order and waiting, and waiting and waiting. There is a lot of US tax dollar waste here. The economy has been propped up with 80 million a year and I see things that piss me off that My hard earned tax dollars are not being used effectively. It hasn't helped the community at large either. As one person put it very recently, "we have been spoon fed (by US money) and look at the results'. So that is where it is. Take away the US dollars and the system would collapse. There are many good people here though and in general I like the culture but alcohol use is on the rise with a corresponding physical abuse problem on the rise.


 

 well I look forward to your impressions.
   
  as for your observations on Micronesia, it's pretty much the same here on Guam except with bigger budgets. Every new school year we have the same news, people holding their breath whether schools will be able to start due to school lunch contract problems , enough school buses for transportation, Department of education fund levels etc..in the end it usually ends up with government transferring money from emergency government funds, and just postponing the problems for next years education budget....I remember my first year, the utilities company threatening to shut down half the street lights because the government haven't payed over 10 years of debt.. though I think Guam is probably much better with its economy due to tourism from japan and the military (and the build up coming soon). 
   
  and about mail, yeah welcome to the club...though its getting better, with USPS priority mail taking around a week to 2 weeks (a few times it took considerably more) . I assume its probably worse down at your end..If given the chance I now use express mail whenever I can, though it costs considerably more.


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## wolfen68

D12 came in today.  Almost exactly the same size as the D10.  Anyone who has a sysconcept cable made to size for the H1xx/D10 should be able to use the same for the D12.   Has a nifty white power LED now instead of the D10's red.  The volume knob is nice and stiff with almost no noticeable channel imbalance at low levels.  The gain has a bigger difference between low and high than the D10's.  The initial listen sounds good so far, with perhaps a little more midrange beef and some nice low end as compared to the D10 with stock opamps.


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## pekingduck

^^ Any impressions?


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## GeorgeGoodman

I DEMAND IMPRESSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wolfen68

I haven't had much time with it...and it's DAC performance is my greatest interest.  But I'm convinced that later impressions will agree with my initial impression that the stock opamps in D12 are superior to the D10's stock amps.  I feel like I have a topkit already in this thing...and it has a nice open sound that I really like.  I've only listened with RS-1's so far...and will check later to see if there's any hiss with my JH13's. 
   
  Edit:  Slight channel imbalance at the lowest volume using the JH13's....but acceptable.  No hiss and a nice black background even at maxed volume.


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## wolfen68

I've discovered a new added bonus to the D12.....the pocketable search and rescue spotlight LED!
   
  The new white LED casts a significant beam of light approximately 30 feet.  You can read by it, go spelunking, or take it to sporting events to cheer on your favorite team....


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## hvu

lol My Toucan has the same LED and I do agree it is way to bright I really miss the red led.


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## jamato8

Yeah, I don't get it, the LED's are often way too bright. 
   
  So mine was shipped out at the same time but for some reason got held up in the airport in China and there it sits. So more impressions from you'all. :^)


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## debitsohn

im still trying to figure out how they get the package from china to los angeles in 2 days. every other company's packages take a week or more


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## hvu

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> im still trying to figure out how they get the package from china to los angeles in 2 days. every other company's packages take a week or more


 


  You have to play for the express shipping. When I bought my Toucan from ibasso I played for the express shipping with UPS which was like $25 and it got to Dallas 2-3 days.


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## wolfen68

I chose the cheapest option (which was $22) and got it in four days....which is amazing considering the China--->US delivery.
   
  With past ibasso orders, I've learned there is a unexplainable difference in shipping times.  When the D10 came out, I ordered it in the first hour it was available...but received it over a week after others who had ordered after me. I think this is due to the joys/quirks of international shipping.


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## jendol

I am wondering to order either pb1-toucan or anaconda since both are available now, can anyone offer me their advice


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## jamato8

Quote: 





jendol said:


> I am wondering to order either pb1-toucan or anaconda since both are available now, can anyone offer me their advice


 


  Do you want to go balanced or single ended? With the Toucan you can go balanced or single ended while the Anaconda offers SE but with a dual dac incorporated into the package, which would make it half the size of the Toucan and Boomslang. Also, if only SE, I am not sure what would sound better, the Anaconda or Toucan.


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## jendol

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Do you want to go balanced or single ended? With the Toucan you can go balanced or single ended while the Anaconda offers SE but with a dual dac incorporated into the package, which would make it half the size of the Toucan and Boomslang. Also, if only SE, I am not sure what would sound better, the Anaconda or Toucan.


 


 thank you jamato8, I have balanced jh13 and hd650, in the process of getting a balanced cable for hd800, but I have tons of gears SE. already have rsa protector with me, but most of the times i am using my SE amps, I guess anaconda might be better choice for me


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## jamato8

Quote: 





jendol said:


> thank you jamato8, I have balanced jh13 and hd650, in the process of getting a balanced cable for hd800, but I have tons of gears SE. already have rsa protector with me, but most of the times i am using my SE amps, I guess anaconda might be better choice for me


 
  If you have many things balanced why do you stay SE? I mean, it doesn't matter, what ever sounds best to you. I understand the SE of the Anaconda is supposed to be very good and the balanced of the Toucan is excellent also and then there is the Boomslang balanced dac. I enjoy using both the Protector and the Toucan as they sound a little different.


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## qusp

Quote: 





barleyguy said:


> The D4 uses a 9 volt battery, and the D10 uses a 4.7 volt rechargeable. That gives the D4 more power as well as larger voltage swings.  In order to increase the power of the D10, they'd likely have to move away from the rechargeable lithium battery.
> 
> EDIT: BTW, there are opamps for the D10 that will increase the current, at the expense of battery life and possibly sound signature.


 

 haha the lithium based battery cells I use in my portable DIY sabre are capable of 120 amps burst and up to 60amps continuous discharge, meaning they can empty themselves in a matter of minutes. still need more current than lithium  batteries can provide?


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## HiFlight

Well, although I wasn't planning to do this, I couldn't help myself and spent some time last night rolling LR opamps in my D12.   I found that many of the ones I had on hand did not make any major improvment in SQ, but several sounded quite good:   LMH6622, LT1358, AD744OBCA, and the best of all, the OPA637BP.  While this is a *very* expensive opamp and does require quite a bit of quiescent current, it sounds superb in the D12.  It gives a weight and impact to the sound that is lacking in the others, but still is able to render delicate detail quite accurately.  Instrument tonality is outstanding.  
   
  If I remember correctly, the OPA627/637 didn't last long in my D10 as it is operating right on the edge of its voltage requirement at 5v, but for some reason, it has not yet quit and I have probably run the battery for 8 hours before installing them.  They have played for about 6 hours today before I put it on the charger and was still going strong. 
   
  I have not yet tried other buffers, but the stock buffers seem to do a very good job. 
   
  The new style case really makes for quick changes....I just leave the top off and swap/listen/swap/listen...etc!
   
  Another consideration besides cost when using the OPA637BP is that it is supposed to be stable at gains above 5, however I have found it to be stable at low gain (+3) in my D12. 
   
  The rolling WILL continue!


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## wolfen68

So much for settling into the D12's stock sound


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## wuwhere

Cool, since I just bought 4 OPA627APs, two for an amp I'm waiting for and two for..., well now all I need is a D12. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Guess I'll just have to wait for the next batch, Oct. 10th.
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Well, although I wasn't planning to do this, I couldn't help myself and spent some time last night rolling LR opamps in my D12.   I found that many of the ones I had on hand did not make any major improvment in SQ, but several sounded quite good:   LMH6622, LT1358, AD744OBCA, and the best of all, the OPA637BP.  While this is a *very* expensive opamp and does require quite a bit of quiescent current, it sounds superb in the D12.  It gives a weight and impact to the sound that is lacking in the others, but still is able to render delicate detail quite accurately.  Instrument tonality is outstanding.
> 
> If I remember correctly, the OPA627/637 didn't last long in my D10 as it is operating right on the edge of its voltage requirement at 5v, but for some reason, it has not yet quit and I have probably run the battery for 8 hours before installing them.  They have played for about 6 hours today before I put it on the charger and was still going strong.
> 
> ...


----------



## Randius

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Well, although I wasn't planning to do this, I couldn't help myself and spent some time last night rolling LR opamps in my D12.   I found that many of the ones I had on hand did not make any major improvment in SQ, but several sounded quite good:   LMH6622, LT1358, AD744OBCA, and the best of all, the OPA637BP.  While this is a *very* expensive opamp and does require quite a bit of quiescent current, it sounds superb in the D12.  It gives a weight and impact to the sound that is lacking in the others, but still is able to render delicate detail quite accurately.  Instrument tonality is outstanding.
> 
> If I remember correctly, the OPA627/637 didn't last long in my D10 as it is operating right on the edge of its voltage requirement at 5v, but for some reason, it has not yet quit and I have probably run the battery for 8 hours before installing them.  They have played for about 6 hours today before I put it on the charger and was still going strong.
> 
> ...


 

 Fantastic! Just what I am looking for! 
   
  So now most of the opamps will only provide marginal improvements.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





randius said:


> Fantastic! Just what I am looking for!
> 
> So now most of the opamps will only provide marginal improvements.


 


  There are many opamps that will probably result in improvements in some area or another, but iBasso has chosen an excellent combination of opamps for both LR and buffers.  They combine great sound, good battery life and about as good current output as can be realized from 5v.   
   
  While other opamps, such as the OPA637BP can result in an improvement in sound, there are always trade-offs, such as battery life.   I can only relate what I have found that, IMO, results in an overall improvement.   I don't look for combinations that  exaggerate any part of the audio spectrum.  I like my sound to be as close to the source as possible, not only tonally, but also in soundstage and imaging.  
   
  Realistically, all opamps are probably 75% similar in sound with the remaining 25% being some combination of differences, either tonally, warmer, more neutral, etc.  It is not night and day difference, especially at the level of performance that is present in the D12.
   
  The opamps I mentioned sounded very good in the D12 and I am sure that I will find other combinations that also sound good to my ears, but may not be the choice of others.


----------



## wuwhere

Ron, can you briefly comment on the D12 as DAC only compared to D10 as DAC only?


----------



## jamato8

I wish "I" could. Mine is still stuck in China at the airport as bad weather kept it on the ground on the 29th and 30th and for some reason, it is still there!


----------



## wuwhere

I'll definitely be getting one from the next batch. But with so many portable amps, I would probably use it half the time as DAC only.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I wish "I" could. Mine is still stuck in China at the airport as bad weather kept it on the ground on the 29th and 30th and for some reason, it is still there!


----------



## wolfen68

Just a question to see if anyone else has witnessed this behavior with the D12.  When you turn it off, you can hear the normal gentle "pop" as the amp turns off.  However, with my D12 there is a very impressive mini-jet-like whine that occurs about 2-3 seconds after powerdown.  I've never heard an amp make this noise...just curious if they all do this.
   
  I've also noticed that the D12's input manager seems to be doing a very good job as compared to the D10 (which already worked well).  As I change inputs or turn sources on and off, the D12 is picking them up flawlessly whereas my D10 occasionally has to be turned off and on again to acquire the signal.


----------



## wuwhere

Could be the caps discharging?
   
  That's good that they improved the  auto input selection on the D12.
  
  Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> Just a question to se if anyone else has witnessed this behavior with the D12.  When you turn it off, you can hear the normal gentle "pop" as the amp turns off.  However, with my D12 there is a very impressive mini-jet-like whine that occurs about 2-3 seconds after powerdown.  I've never heard an amp make this noise...just curious if they all do this.
> 
> I've also noticed that the D12's input manager seems to be doing a very good job as compared to the D10 (which already worked well).  As I change inputs or turn sources on and off, the D12 is picking them up flawlessly whereas my D10 occasionally has to be turned off and on again to acquire the signal.


----------



## Armaegis

Depending on which opamps/buffers I have in my D10, I've occasionally heard the whine.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> Just a question to see if anyone else has witnessed this behavior with the D12.  When you turn it off, you can hear the normal gentle "pop" as the amp turns off.  However, with my D12 there is a very impressive mini-jet-like whine that occurs about 2-3 seconds after powerdown.  I've never heard an amp make this noise...just curious if they all do this.
> 
> I've also noticed that the D12's input manager seems to be doing a very good job as compared to the D10 (which already worked well).  As I change inputs or turn sources on and off, the D12 is picking them up flawlessly whereas my D10 occasionally has to be turned off and on again to acquire the signal.


 

 Yes, this is normal behavior.  As the power reserve in the caps is exhausted, the opamps often oscillate a bit before shutting down completely. 
   
  Such sound is perfectly harmless.


----------



## bpfiguer

I wonder if the D12 is better isolated to RF interference than the D10?


----------



## jamato8

Woo Hooo. . . I got my D12. It arrived today on island after being grounded due to weather in China. The mids are different, as noted, and I like them. They are full but very well defined. I am using the HD650's right now and it is driving them surprisingly well. I am using my converted iRiver using the coax out to the coax input of the D12. Those dual dacs do a fine job.


----------



## andrew3199

Can we look forward to one of your fine reviews..


----------



## vkvedam

Congrats John, looking forward towards your impressions.


----------



## wuwhere

Definitely more impressions would be nice.


----------



## jamato8

I find that I want to make sure on what mine are, impressions. I will say that I am surprised that this lower voltage amp drives the HD650's so well. The bass is solid and the mids are excellent. The highs are clean and there is a good transparency to the sound. Now I have said this about other amps but it is the degree of difference that of course makes the difference. I need to compare some to give my impression. I want to compare to the fi.Q, since as a single ended amp, it is excellent, IMO. I will say though that the D12 is a step up from the D10. The dual dacs help and the things iBasso has learned on making everything better.


----------



## HiFlight

I really like the sound of the OPA637BP biased Class A with bypassed buffers in the D12. It seems quite stable and sound great.  Huge downside is the $35 cost of each opamp!   I am currently using bypassed buffers.  The AD8022 and LT1213 also have worked well as buffers with the 637 but LR + buffers do draw a fair amount of quiescent current. 
  My D12 is currently driving my K-501s very well using high gain with the bypassed buffers.  The 2-part case is a huge improvement if one does much opamp rolling.


----------



## jamato8

I can't find my 637's. I sent a pair back with a fi.Q to Ryuzoh and didn't get them back. I had them for a long time. 
   
  Sysconcept may come out with a new better than ever optical cable. It is multistrand, low modal dispersion and a bending radius of 1mm vs 2cm of the older one, 1mm! It should have a better bit rate and lower distortion of the optical signal (jitter, reflections).


----------



## lionel marechal

Guys,
  For people planning to purchase it or who have it, how do yo plan to deal with the battery replacement ? Is it something that can be done without any soldering in the D12 ?
  Thank you !
  Lionel


----------



## jamato8

The connector for the battery is a male female connector that is easy to change, no solder just pull and push back into place. The battery is velcroed in.


----------



## cooperpwc

Unless I missed something, reference to _*new Sysconcept optical cable  *_in the title is somewhat misleading. Watch this space, I guess.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Unless I missed something, reference to _*new Sysconcept optical cable  *_in the title is somewhat misleading. Watch this space, I guess.


 


  Sorry, I forgot to post here, or though I did. Wait, I did post about it but it didn't show up. 
   
  The new optical cable will have around 1300 optical conductors, twice that of glass, so it will have a wider bandwidth, and will have a very low modal dispersion. The bend radius is 1mm vs 2cm for the solid core. The bit rate is improved for better performance on higher digital quality recordings. It will be an improvement all the way around.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Sorry, I forgot to post here, or though I did. Wait, I did post about it but it didn't show up.
> 
> The new optical cable will have around 1300 optical conductors, twice that of glass, so it will have a wider bandwidth, and will have a very low modal dispersion. The bend radius is 1mm vs 2cm for the solid core. The bit rate is improved for better performance on higher digital quality recordings. It will be an improvement all the way around.


 


   Does all of this imply that some kind of audible difference is possible?  The new bend radius looks handy.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> Does all of this imply that some kind of audible difference is possible?  The new bend radius looks handy.


 
  On higher bit rate music, it could translate into some enhanced sound quality. The signal is being transferred with less distortion, and according to the specifications, this cable would be better than glass due to a wider bandwidth. I brought up the issue to Joseph at Sysconcepts over a year ago and he has been working on it. What you hear will depend upon the quality of the equipment and the quality of the recording. I will be getting an optical cable for the toslink to mini of the iRiver to balanced dac, the Boomslang and will keep everyone updated.


----------



## cooperpwc

Thanks. The cable sounds interesting indeed.


----------



## wolfen68

I wonder if the sysconcept small "u" cables in general will fit both the boomslang and D10/D12 connection using an iriver....or if different lengths are needed.  It's hard to tell from the pictures.


----------



## jamato8

They both fit the same. You need a 32mm tip to tip after the bend or tip to tip on a C. 32mm is for the H140, less for the H120, about 30mm for the H120. 
   
  edit: I need to state that I use velcro between the iRiver and Boomslang, D10 or D12. This adds about 2mm or so to the length, so take this into consideration.


----------



## Packgrog

But do you use an iSkin as well?  Another important consideration.


----------



## wolfen68

I do..probably close to the width of Jamato's velcro.


----------



## jamato8

I don't use the iSkin but I have one here. I just let the iRivers go naked here on island. If just the iSkin then as mentioned above, it would most likely be very close to using the velcro as far as space.


----------



## Randius

I tried the Toucan today with my iPhone 3GS + Qable LOD and I was shocked by the amount of interferences I've heard. It happened too many times and each interference lasted at least 3-4 seconds. Enjoying music was an impossible task. I am now leaning towards getting the D12 because I wish to have the DAC function but I am wondering if D12 has this problem? Can anyone pairing D12 with iPhone 3GS/4 please share your experience? Thanks.
   
  Was the interference picked up more by the LOD or Toucan?


----------



## qusp

unfortunately RFI has always been a bit of a problem with the ibasso gear, often it helps with different opamps than stock. speaking of which, Thats why I posted in here, if you guys havent already you really should try out the OPA1641; its an insanely good jfet input opamp with noise levels that Ti had to construct a new low noise measurement preamplifier to measure at all. when BB cant measure the noise, you know its low noise. its probably would be run slightly out of spec but good chance it'll be fine, most of the sound plus range are pretty good with lower supply voltages.
   
  and yes it also sounds brilliant!! i'm a big fan of jfet inputs on chips. OPA827 is a fine example.


----------



## giveit2menow

sorry for the noob question but can i run from the spidf out of my archos dock to the coaxial input of the ibasso d12?


----------



## pekingduck

Yes you can.
   
  Quote: 





giveit2menow said:


> sorry for the noob question but can i run from the spidf out of my archos dock to the coaxial input of the ibasso d12?


----------



## giveit2menow

thanks.


----------



## giveit2menow

im a bit confused. is spdif the same as coaxial? I have ordered the ibasso d12 and need a cable to connect the archos spdif output to the ibasso coaxial input (or optical if it matters). The spdif and coaxial cables look the same will they all work? Can you recommend or point me to a suitable cable of good quality for this job? Thanks.


----------



## pekingduck

SPDIF is a standard for digital audio transmission while coaxial and TOSLINK (optical) are two implementations of SPDIF.
   
  You can get a cheap optical cable first cos I am not sure if there are benefits of buying expensive ones


----------



## cooperpwc

I think that giveit2menow needs a coaxial, not optical (Toslink), cable.


----------



## giveit2menow

the unit comes with what i gues are extra buffers and/or rollamps? anyway theres 3 of the little blitters. Anyone know exactly what they are and the differences they make?


----------



## musicalbox

when connected via USB port, is the DAC able to play 24bit/96kHz audio (I assume it is able to play it via optical input)?
   
  80% of my music collection is in this format that's why I'm interested, but there are very few DACs that do 24/96 via USB.
   
  Thanks


----------



## j2kei

any comparision between ibasso d4? im liking the fact that the d12 has optical and all, but i do not relaly need it. it would just be nice to use the optical out from my macbook pro and leave a usb port open, however im seeing that the d4 has more power


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





j2kei said:


> any comparision between ibasso d4? im liking the fact that the d12 has optical and all, but i do not relaly need it. it would just be nice to use the optical out from my macbook pro and leave a usb port open, however im seeing that the d4 has more power


 


  I have a prototype Topkit that I am evaluating for the D12 that can supply 250ma/ch.  Further info forthcoming.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





musicalbox said:


> when connected via USB port, is the DAC able to play 24bit/96kHz audio (I assume it is able to play it via optical input)?
> 
> 80% of my music collection is in this format that's why I'm interested, but there are very few DACs that do 24/96 via USB.
> 
> Thanks


 

 If your computer is putting out 24 bit 96 khz the dac system will go to 24 bit 96khz.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> If your computer is putting out 24 bit 96 khz the dac system will go to 24 bit 96khz.


 

 How could that be possible when your USB receiver chip only supports and accepts 16/44.1, 48?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





vkvedam said:


> How could that be possible when your USB receiver chip only supports and accepts 16/44.1, 48?


 

 You are right. I have been working with optical and coax and have been thinking along those lines. Thank you for the correction.


----------



## wolfen68

Here's some information on the optical cable product that Jamato has been refering to (from Sysconcept):
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]We are in the process of obtaining the cable, it needs to be jacketed so[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]it will take few weeks.[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]We did not post any information about it, as we don't have it officially[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]in stock. [/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Here are the spec sheet and partial view picture how it looks under[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]magnification.[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Yes, the cable is impressive, we have made few and have one confirmation[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]that it work at 24bit/192kHz; as not everybody can test it at this[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]sampling rate.[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]All these short cables we make:[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=349[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]we will use this 1300-core fiber as we have about 2-meter in stock so it[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]is enough for several cables (about 25); but any cable longer then 30cm[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]the order will have to wait until we get it in stock and jacket it.[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]-- [/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Regards,[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Sysconcept[/size][/size]
   
*[size=x-small][size=x-small]Specifications:  Plastic Optical Fiber Multi-Core POF 1-1300[/size][/size]*
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Core Material - PMMA[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Clad Material - Fluorinated Polymer[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Fiber Diameter - 1000 +/- 60 um[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Core Number - 1300[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Jacket Material - PE[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Jacket Diameter - 2200 +/- 70 um[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Jacket Color - Black[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Attenuation - <0.6 dB/m[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Tensile Strength at Break Point - >80 N[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]Minimum Bending Radius - 1 Mm  [/size][/size]
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small][/size][/size]


----------



## dwonk

Can the Black Gates that were used to mod the D10 be used to mod the D12?  470uF 6.3V and the 220uF 6.3V?  I got a bunch sitting around that Ryuzoh was supposed to take from me to do the work on my D10 but he is not responding to my mails.  The D12 looks easier to do the big caps now but I noticed that the cap was a 2000uF 16V on Ron's internal shots (on the D10 it was a 1500uF 6.3V).  Jon, what are the specs on the D12's little caps?


----------



## jamato8

The voltage is the same as the D10 so the same caps will work. I will have to look at placement but 6.3 on the voltage is fine.


----------



## jermng

I got the D12 2 days ago and put them through about 24hrs of burn in. 
   
  At first, I put my Ultrasone Pro900s on and they sounded terrible with really harsh highs ... but soon realized that's due to the inherent property of the pre burned-in headphones.
   
  This morning, I put on my Westone UM2 through them and they sound totally awesome. I previously thought the UM2s lacked highs and were a little too strong on the lows, but combined with the D12, it seems to even things out quite a fair bit. Overall signal was much cleaner which was evidenced by the very much improved instrument separation. 
   
  This was with the stock opamps. 
   
  I think I've found a very good match for my UM2s which I was going to put on sale. Now I'm gonna keep them, just cause they sound so good with the D12. 
   
  Will post more impressions with other headphones soon.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Does anybody know how much the new Sysconcept cable will be? Thanks in advance.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Does anybody know how much the new Sysconcept cable will be? Thanks in advance.


 

 I think they are still sorting that all out. It will be more expensive as it has to have another jacket around the cable so it is durable and polishing the ends takes more time. Many companies just do a hot cut and leave it at that but of course that is a very poor quality way to do it. Joseph makes sure the ends are truly polished and examines each one carefully. 
   
  I have to say, I am still surprised at the sound. I was listening to some classical last night and i kept looking around for the sound. it was so broad and deep with a very clean sound. I now know the meaning of low modal dispersion and wide bandwidth.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for the update, Jam. It is good to hear they are taking the time and doing it right.


----------



## Gradoman

Mine came today. Impressed so far. Tried analouge, didn't like the sound - quite thin. From iriver H140. Then optical, much better  Love all the bits you get, not just the D12. Flexible too, charge over USB...saves using the power supply thing. Standard cable same as iriver h140 cable. Nice bundled with optical cable, adaptor, 3.5mm interconnect, opamps, case etc etc


----------



## LoveAndHonor

Mine came today as well. I ordered it in black so if anyone is interested to see how it looks like compared with the silver version, let me know and I'll upload pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm still messing around with that little box but I don't know what to think about the sound (so far - just over an hour of burning it in). I'm still fairly new with everything about audio so I only have these 3 sources at the moment:
   
  - Dell laptop (unfortunately no optical out so I'm using it with USB).
  - Samsung Galaxy S (this smartphone uses a Wolfson audio chip so I'm interested in what kind of complementarity it can offer when combined with the D12).
  - iPod Classic 120 Gb (with the iBasso CB07 LOD).
   
  I'm using the Ultrasone Pro900 (quite low impedance compared to HD-650 for example). I'm listening to music (lossless files and CDs) from my laptop so I haven't tried the D12 with my phone or my iPod yet.
   
  The music sounded so melodic and harmonious. Pro900 are known to be analytic cans and the D12 made them even more revealing (but less fatiguing - at least for me!). I'm sure the sound will evolve some more but right now I don't wanna take my headphones off my head, which wasn't the case a week ago because of the listening fatigue. The highs are still agressive or me and the mids aren't crystal clear but I have very high hopes that this is only a matter of time before the D12 is fully burned in and makes my Pro900 sing. So far, classical music benefits a lot more from the D12 than music with lots of guitars, drums, pop-ish songs, etc. If I could describe my Pro900 when used with the D12, I'd say they're a lot more "mature". Overall very well balanced and more generous. I consider myself new with this hobby so please take what I wrote as a personal opinion rather than a mini-review.
   
  ---
  I would like to know about people around here who own the D12 and their setting about the volume switch. I set the volume switch (with gain off) around the 12/1 o'clock mark (I seriously hope this is not a early sign of damage hearing! I'm only 23).
   
  Last question: is there a way to use my Yamaha AV receiver with my laptop _and_ D12 at the same time? Do I get more by using Receiver/D12/Laptop/Headphones than D12/Laptop/Headphones?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





loveandhonor said:


> Mine came today as well. I ordered it in black so if anyone is interested to see how it looks like compared with the silver version, let me know and I'll upload pictures.


 

 If you get a chance I would enjoy seeing it in black.


----------



## Za'afiel

Got mine in black a couple of days ago. Second batch.


----------



## mrspeakers

First-off, thanks everyone for the great posts, they were quite helpful as I dove in to commit to my first serious IEM/DAC/AMP setup.  I'm an audio engineer (speaker and sub designer), and a regular on AVS and HDD forums, but am relatively new to being OCD around my IEMs.  And it's all your fault, really.  




   
  However, I've got the bug....   After biting my nails about D12 vs. the RSA Predator, I went with this and must say I'm delighted.  I ordered my unit Monday morning it's already here. Fit and finish is quite good, though there's a little more gap around the jacks than there should be.  
   
  I'm running it off a MacBook Pro using optical, driving my trusty Shure 530s (the JHA 16Pros should be here in week...).  Playing some nice 24/96 flac files, and very impressive how much air, stage and depth this little gem projects.  The background is absolutely silent, the music emerges from "black space" and the inter-transient detailing is superb.  I can hear the rosin on the bows, people turning their pages on the scores, a tremendous sense of depth and reverb in the performance hall.  I have to say, I have a lot more respect for the 530's resolution and top-end than I did off the iPod/Mac analog.  I had NO idea they were this good, and am drooling waiting for the JHAs.
   
  Only two complaints: the D12 needs a lower-gain switch mode and the volume pot could be better.  At 10 o'clock it's as loud as I want, and audio only starts to come on at 9.  Worse, when audio starts, the two channels are clearly not tracking very closely until moderate volume.  As I seldom listen at low levels this isn't a huge problem, but a little more precision in this pot combined with a 1x gain mode would be quite nice.  The RSA Predator beats this unit out, with Ray's attention to selecting pots that track well, and a three-stage gain selector.
   
  My next upgrade may be to use the D12 DAC to drive the 16s via a RSA Protector, which ought to pair well with the D12 as the DAC, or to upgrade to a fully balanced iBasso config.
   
  For the money: 5 stars


----------



## mrspeakers

The Wolfson DAC can handle up to 192K sample rates, but alas my MacBook Pro only outputs up to 96K.  The USB chip is limited to 48K.  Looks like I won't be able to push this to it's full limits...  
   
  Any Mac users know if there is a way to get full 192K output to drive devices like the D12?  I have some source at that resolution and would really like to give it a try...


----------



## jermng

I don't know if it's just me or my unit, but when fully charged, the D12 sounds awesome.
   
  After about 4-5hours run-time (non continuous), it seems to have lost "energy" or power and the music starts to sound like it lacks "punch". It's not any frequency range in particular, it's just that I start to need to turn up the volume knob.
   
  It's not ear fatigue for sure, cos I can remove the amp, plug my headphones into any other source and play back at my usual levels and they sound fine. 
   
   
  Recharging to full usually does the trick, but I'm thinking it shouldnt be like that, cos the indicator lights still do not say the unit needs re-charging. 
   
   
  Maybe I have a faulty battery? Or does anyone else experience the same?


----------



## Packgrog

Quote: 





jermng said:


> After about 4-5hours run-time (non continuous), it seems to have lost "energy" or power and the music starts to sound like it lacks "punch".


 

 This is pretty standard for battery powered amps.  They always sound better with fully-charged batteries, as they're pushing higher voltage when fresh.  As batteries discharge, the voltage drops.  Nothing wrong with the unit.  Just the nature of the beast.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> The Wolfson DAC can handle up to 192K sample rates, but alas my MacBook Pro only outputs up to 96K.  The USB chip is limited to 48K.  Looks like I won't be able to push this to it's full limits...
> 
> Any Mac users know if there is a way to get full 192K output to drive devices like the D12?  I have some source at that resolution and would really like to give it a try...


 

 Dunno about computers being able to push this, particularly from a laptop, but a DVD player probably could from a DVD-A with the proper high-res stereo layer.  Never tried it, personally.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





packgrog said:


> This is pretty standard for battery powered amps.  They always sound better with fully-charged batteries, as they're pushing higher voltage when fresh.  As batteries discharge, the voltage drops.  Nothing wrong with the unit.  Just the nature of the beast.


 

 That is true for SLA batteries, but lithium batteries maintain nearly a constant voltage level until they are nearly discharged, then voltage falls off rapidly.  This is what triggers the blinking light on the D12. 
   
  I hear no differences on my D12 until the low-battery warning illuminates.  It is well over 15 hours using both DAC and amp.


----------



## Packgrog

Well, my D1 loses sound quality shortly before the battery dies (at least it did before the battery stopped charging at all, leaving me with a unit that always has to be plugged in, since I can't afford the $25 battery replacement charge AND shipping to china right now, meh).  Granted, it's usually a few minutes before it dies, but still.
   
  Admittedly, this was much more dramatically noticeable with my custom-built Monica 2 DAC (oh how I miss that thing) running off of alkaline batteries (Duracells were best).  Fresh batteries provided significant improvement in depth.  I tended to run it until it started to crackle from inadequate voltage, and by that point everything sounded much more flat.  Never tried it with an external Li-Ion battery, though I'd researched it.
   
  Dunno about the D12 in general, much as I lust after one, but maybe the voltage does drop just below that "sweet spot" after just 4 hours for *jermng*.  *shrug*


----------



## jamato8

I get no real change in sound on mine. Has the battery been cycled a number of times to fully condition it? 
   
  I have a good external power source for the Monica II and with that get more transparency and generally, better sound but with fresh eneloop batteries, the Monica II sounds very good. I have read that a number of people actually prefer the II to the latest version. I asked about a dual dac version a while back and was told no way, to bad.


----------



## LoveAndHonor

Here's another one to compare with items of different sizes.


----------



## mrspeakers

The battery is Li  ion, which doesn't need to be cycled to have full charge capacity...


----------



## jamato8

I have read that they do need to be cycled a few times to reach full capacity. I use li ion in my cameras, and it definitely proves true with them. In the D12, I also found this to be true.


----------



## mrspeakers

Configuration tips for Mac users...
   
  Neither the USB nor the optical inputs handshake to establish optimal output frequency automatically.  This is not good, because the audio driver in the mac will have to resample, and that ALWAYS creates errors and artifacts.  So for optimal listening you either have to switch the setting in the midi control when your music sample rate changes, or develop another approach.   
   
  If all your media is off CDs or iTunes you only have one sample rate, so it's a big don't care.  But I have some very nice 24/96 flac, and about 13,000 44.1K lossless tunes, so I'm switching a lot.  
   
  Solution?  Set the built-in output to 24/96 which will force all output over the optical to be 24/96, and set the USB output to 16/44.1.  Simply use USB for most listening and only plug in the optical and for HD.  This is probably ideal for most people as we need the USB to charge, and so it probably is usually plugged in.
   
  Works like a champ. I verified the output over optical was 24/96 and the USB must be correct as it can't handle 24/96.  
   
  The included optical cable worked pretty well, with occasional dropouts so I switched to a flexible glass fibre cable.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have read that they do need to be cycled a few times to reach full capacity. I use li ion in my cameras, and it definitely proves true with them. In the D12, I also found this to be true.


 


  Hi Jam...   No, that's not correct.  There's no memory, and in fact full cycling is somewhat bad for the battery (so don't run it all the way down to maximize life...)
   
  From Battery University:
   
  Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life.. ...is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
   
  Edit: Not sure why your camera experience differs, but it doesn't follow the engineering background for the technology that I've seen...


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

LoveAndHonor, this might be slightly unrelated to thread topic but how portable do you find your Ipods with the D12 and Pro 900s are? I am looking to eventually get a similar setup, and i have almost saved up enough for the Pro 900s. After that I think I will try to get the Ibasso Toucan and glean the benefits of balanced circuitry. I am very excited by you descriptions of the Pro 900s sound!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> Hi Jam...   No, that's not correct.  There's no memory, and in fact full cycling is somewhat bad for the battery (so don't run it all the way down to maximize life...)
> 
> From Battery University:
> 
> ...


 


  Yes you are correct on the deep discharge. In practice I find that li ion need to be used a few times before they get to their full potential. I use a multitude of camera batteries for my different Canons and Leica, which all use li ion and from that I have a better feel for what they do than even the amps. When I get X amount of images on a new battery and then with the same shooting it increases, with this happening time after time with new batteries, experience has taught me that they do improve. This is also the findings of many other photographers. I know the battery has no memory, with is a great thing but as far as current storage, my experience is validated by images shot from new and used li ion batteries and less so with amps.


----------



## jamato8

duplicate


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have a good external power source for the Monica II and with that get more transparency and generally, better sound but with fresh eneloop batteries, the Monica II sounds very good. _*I have read that a number of people actually prefer the II to the latest version.*_ I asked about a dual dac version a while back and was told no way, to bad.


 


 It's possible but technically the design keeps improving (lower jitter, higher quality super E blackgate capacitors, now an even newer Mojo gain stage building on discoveries of the DIY community - although I haven't heard it.) Is there a source that you can share?


----------



## jamato8

A source for what?


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have read that a number of people actually prefer the II to the latest version.


 

 A source for that. You should share the read because you suggested that Yeo at diyparadise's current product is a step backwards. If it is your opinion, fine. (I do not know if you have heard Monica 3?) Instead you claim a multitude of opinions from a printed source. I believe that you have a responsibility to back that up.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> A source for that. You should share the read because you suggested that Yeo at diyparadise's current product is a step backwards. If it is your opinion, fine. (I do not know if you have heard Monica 3?) Instead you claim a multitude of opinions from a printed source. I believe that you have a responsibility to back that up.


 
  This is the wrong thread for this anyway and it is something I read a while back and I remember the comments but no longer exactly where. What stuck out to me what that they preferred the older model, Big deal. What, I am going to lie about something like that? What possible benefit would that be to anything? Please, I have used the Monica I and II and was the one the suggested to Yeo to use the Black Gates in the Super E configuration.  I have corresponded with Yeo, off and on for a number of years. It is what it is. And it isn't like I said other manufactures had better unit, this was a comparison of a product from the same company. To me that is a compliment besides I am sure there are those who prefer the III. I am not going to address it any more in this thread. 
   
  Correction: I should have stated that I read this on a couple of boards. And saying a sound of a previous dac is preferred is not a step backward for the current model, it is a statement of sound preference. Some prefer the HD600 to the HD650 and the 650 is supposed to be the more current of the two.


----------



## Gradoman

D12 owner with Grado RS-1's. I've set the gain switch to the down position. Left it in stock opamp mode, but any recommendations which to use with the Grados? Using optical input.


----------



## jamato8

I should receive a Topkit this week. I enjoy my HF2's with the stock D12 but will find out if I like it even better with the Topkit from HiFlight. I will report back. So many choices so little time.


----------



## mrspeakers

Boy, this little puppy sure doesn't like having my Blackberry within 5 feet of it.  My iPhone doesn't seem to create as much audio drama.
   
  I heard the D10 was sensitive to this issue, as well.  Are the RSA units as finicky as the D12 for external RF noise?


----------



## Packgrog

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> A source for that. You should share the read because you suggested that Yeo at diyparadise's current product is a step backwards.


 

 Me.  I had both the Monica 2 and Monica 3, and preferred the Monica 2.  Synergy may account for this, as the Monica 3 seemed almost too powerful for my amp when compared to the Monica 2.  The Monica 2, to me, sounded more organic and relaxed than anything else I've heard so far.  It was a true joy to listen to, if way too finicky to use long-term.
   
  And as John said, I don't necessarily think the Monica 3 was a step backwards.  I just preferred the Monica 2.
   
  Also, I have a friend who at some point claimed to prefer the HD600 to the HD650.  I don't have an opinion on this as I've never had the opportunity to compare both with the same source.  It also would probably not be appropriate for me to name the person.  He's not a member here.


----------



## that1guy

Anyone try the d12 with some grado sr225i phones? Looking for some impressisons


----------



## Za'afiel

The D12 has good synergy with the HF2s. Less muddy and the highs a little more extended. I haven't owned a D10 but I'm elated at the battery life this thing's got.
   
  RF shielding on it sucks.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





packgrog said:


> Me.  I had both the Monica 2 and Monica 3, and preferred the Monica 2.  Synergy may account for this, as the Monica 3 seemed almost too powerful for my amp when compared to the Monica 2.  The Monica 2, to me, sounded more organic and relaxed than anything else I've heard so far.  It was a true joy to listen to, if way too finicky to use long-term.
> 
> And as John said, I don't necessarily think the Monica 3 was a step backwards.  I just preferred the Monica 2.
> 
> Also, I have a friend who at some point claimed to prefer the HD600 to the HD650.  I don't have an opinion on this as I've never had the opportunity to compare both with the same source.  It also would probably not be appropriate for me to name the person.  He's not a member here.


 

 Fair enough. That is _your _opinion, duly attributed.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> This is the wrong thread for this anyway and it is something I read a while back and I remember the comments but no longer exactly where. What stuck out to me what that they preferred the older model, Big deal. What, I am going to lie about something like that? What possible benefit would that be to anything? Please, I have used the Monica I and II and was the one the suggested to Yeo to use the Black Gates in the Super E configuration.  I have corresponded with Yeo, off and on for a number of years. It is what it is. And it isn't like I said other manufactures had better unit, this was a comparison of a product from the same company. To me that is a compliment besides I am sure there are those who prefer the III. I am not going to address it any more in this thread.
> 
> Correction: I should have stated that I read this on a couple of boards. And saying a sound of a previous dac is preferred is not a step backward for the current model, it is a statement of sound preference. Some prefer the HD600 to the HD650 and the 650 is supposed to be the more current of the two.


 

 Was I suggesting that your post was sloppy and inappropriate? Yes, I certainly was. Was I attacking your integrity? No.
  
  Not to make a mountain out of a molehill. I said my piece. Peace.


----------



## Dchenlin

Just received my D12 in the mail, works great with the Denon 7000's,  I like how they included the fiber optic cable adapter that connects it to the Macbook Pros.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, including the fiber optic is a nice accessory. So many companies are holding back on everything they give you, which makes the hunt for the needed connectors frustrating. 
   
  I just got a TopKit from HiFlight. Now to run it through the paces.


----------



## misc.

I ordered one of these, its coming in the post!
  Now, just a few questions:
   
  What exactly is in the package? Does it come with a 3.5mm to RCA cable?
   
  How well does this work with IEMs? ie any noise (-i know you can change gain that should address this...)
   
  I notice a lot of people commenting on the RF interference. Is there anyway to improve this? If i machine another aluminium housing to go around this would this improve RF shielding?
   
  Otherwise I'll just keep it as far as possible away from my laptop when i have the wireless on, and away from my phone.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





misc. said:


> I ordered one of these, its coming in the post!
> Now, just a few questions:
> 
> What exactly is in the package? Does it come with a 3.5mm to RCA cable?
> ...


 
  No, it doesn't come with a 3.5mm to RCA, but has an optical and short mini-mini. 
  It works very well with all of my IEMs, and I have yet to hear any noise or hiss.  
  I have heard no RF interference even when near my wireless modem.  Most of the RF complaints seem to be with folks using a phone as source.  I think iBasso has improved the RF shielding and is no longer using the ADA4841-2 opamp, which is very susceptible to RF.


----------



## hvu

To quote the D12 product page.
  "*- Comes with power adapter, leather pouch, optical cable, USB cable, 3.5 to 3.5 interconnect, rubber feet, OPAMP rolling kit, and warranty card."*
   
It is on the last line of the Main Feature info.


----------



## mrspeakers

My Blackberry can't be within four feet of the device, whereas my iPhone has to be right next to it to create RFI.  Of course the Blackberry Bold interferes with virtually every amp or radio it gets near.  The thing is a toaster...


----------



## LoveAndHonor

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> LoveAndHonor, this might be slightly unrelated to thread topic but how portable do you find your Ipods with the D12 and Pro 900s are? I am looking to eventually get a similar setup, and i have almost saved up enough for the Pro 900s. After that I think I will try to get the Ibasso Toucan and glean the benefits of balanced circuitry. I am very excited by you descriptions of the Pro 900s sound!


 
 
 I was going to write a lengthy description of how portable the D12 is... However, I think pictures will do a much better job. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I paired the D12 with both the iPod Classic and Touch (both of them are protected in hard cases). Judge by yourself.
  
 *-iPod Classic-*
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
  
 *-iPod Touch-*
  
 
  
  
 As you can see, there is a significant difference in portability between the two combos. For a daily use, I'd recommend using the iPod touch + D12 rather than the Classic + D12. However, I still haven't used this combo outside. This is because I think the sound quality is much better with the Classic (I compared both of them using the LOD). Moreover I would have to carry a bag around because I would be worried about dropping it or damaging it. On top of that, I rarely sit through an entire album these days and I'm always switching between songs. That means I'd have to reach my Classic + D12 inside the bag almost every 4-5 minutes. Doesn't seem too practical, right? But if I had to go on trips, etc... then I definitely recommend this combo.
  
 All of this is just my opinion and maybe the latest generations of iPod Touch are much better sounding. Mine is from the 2nd Generation (supposedly built with a Wolfson chip and not a Cirrus chip like other iPods) but for daily use, I think you're better off with an iPod touch. Although I don't know how big the Toucan is...
  
 I'll mod my Pro900s soon. If the sound quality happens to increase noticeably, I'll report it here.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for the pics and description, LoveAndHonor. I actually just bought the Sony MDR SA5000 headphones, which there is a deal on. They sound like extremely interesting headphones, as they are supposed to be crazily detailed and transparent, many people saying they are maybe too detailed and err in being cold, but I will judge for myself. There is consensus, however, that they improve when they are balanced. Thus my Toucan getting plans are reinforced. I still want the Pro 900s, but they will have to wait.


----------



## CEE TEE

hiflight said:


> I have a prototype Topkit that I am evaluating for the D12 that can supply 250ma/ch.  Further info forthcoming.







 Wow, HiFlight...if you can more than double the power on the D12 that would make my decision easy! Please keep us posted on achieving 250ma/ch.


----------



## Za'afiel

The Toucan and Boomslang are 22mm shorter than the Anaconda, so pairing it with the Classic or Touch will make the IC stick out less.
   
  I just tried out the Classic (6th gen) + D12 + ATH-ES7 combo on a 1 hour plane ride this morning. Since the ES7 is poor in isolation vs. engine noise, the D12 needed a high-gain level of 11:00 to sound acceptable to my ears. The Classic has a silicone protector around it and fits perfectly above the D12, like LoveAndHonor's picture a few posts above this one. The only thing I need now is an ultra-low-profile LOD.
   
  The D12's amp is clean and doesn't distort. I have yet to test it with a fellow member's LCD-2, but I expect it to be unable to power the Audeze properly. The Toucan is better suited for that function.


----------



## Madpierrot

Could someone with the amp compare it to the D4 Mamba?


----------



## HiFlight

The amplifier section of the D12 is an inprovement over the D4 for the more difficult to drive phones, as the power supply voltage is greater and there is a greater selection of opamps that work well at the higher voltages plus one can also use single-channel opamps in the D12..  With high-sensitivity IEMs and even with some phones such as the Senn. 600s, the D4 does a very good job and it would likely depend upon the choice of phones and opamps to differentiate between the SQ of the two amps.


----------



## jamato8

Ron I am not sure I understand. The D4 can use a 9 volt batter which is twice the voltage of the D12.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> My Blackberry can't be within four feet of the device, whereas my iPhone has to be right next to it to create RFI.  Of course the Blackberry Bold interferes with virtually every amp or radio it gets near.  The thing is a toaster...


 


 Are you using the iPhone 4 with the D12?  I recall the D10 had serious RFI issues so curious if iBasso addressed this matter for those looking to connect an iPhone 4 or smartphone.
   
  Any impressions of the iTouch 4th gen-D12 combo compared with the Cowon S9/J3?


----------



## debitsohn

anyone compare the headstage arrow to the d12 to be used with a non-optical dap>?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> anyone compare the headstage arrow to the d12 to be used with a non-optical dap>?


 


  I have seen no comparisons yet, but if one is not planning to use the digital inputs of the D12, the P4 would be my preference for use as a basic portable amp.


----------



## Madpierrot

Does this mean that the D12 and D4 should be almost identical (minus the power supply - which is possibly in the D12's favor, or D4's since it uses a 9v battery?)
   
  I plan to use this mostly with my laptop. I'm bouncing between D12 / D4 and this amp from malaysia that does not have a DAC but from the reviews sounds killer: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/972446
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> The amplifier section of the D12 is an inprovement over the D4 for the more difficult to drive phones, as the power supply voltage is greater and there is a greater selection of opamps that work well at the higher voltages plus one can also use single-channel opamps in the D12..  With high-sensitivity IEMs and even with some phones such as the Senn. 600s, the D4 does a very good job and it would likely depend upon the choice of phones and opamps to differentiate between the SQ of the two amps.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





madpierrot said:


> Does this mean that the D12 and D4 should be almost identical (minus the power supply - which is possibly in the D12's favor, or D4's since it uses a 9v battery?)
> 
> I plan to use this mostly with my laptop. I'm bouncing between D12 / D4 and this amp from malaysia that does not have a DAC but from the reviews sounds killer: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/972446


 

 IMO, the D12 has the most potential to slightly outperform the D4 depending upon the choice of opamps.  Noticeable, but not night and day difference.


----------



## jamato8

I will agree, the D12 is a bit of a surprise to me because of the powerful presentation from a lower voltage swing but also due to the increase in transparency and layering. This is stock. When I get the upgrade kit from HiFlight I will take note of that. I find that for me, surprisingly the D12 can drive the HD650's with no problem.


----------



## CEE TEE

@jamato8- this is good news because I can use my friend's HD600 anytime I'd like and have the chance to really get to know them before deciding whether I want a pair. 
   
  I had figured though that the HD600 300ohm power needs would be far from the needs of all of my other phones...happy to hear they could handle your HD650! 
   
  Please post which opamps/buffers you like best with HD650.  I have a TopKit coming too.
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I will agree, the D12 is a bit of a surprise to me because of the powerful presentation from a lower voltage swing but also due to the increase in transparency and layering. This is stock. When I get the upgrade kit from HiFlight I will take note of that. I find that for me, surprisingly the D12 can drive the HD650's with no problem.


----------



## mrspeakers

techfreakazoid said:


> Are you using the iPhone 4 with the D12?  I recall the D10 had serious RFI issues so curious if iBasso addressed this matter for those looking to connect an iPhone 4 or smartphone.
> 
> Any impressions of the iTouch 4th gen-D12 combo compared with the Cowon S9/J3?







 I have found that if I stacknthe devices I can hear rfi but side by side is quiet. Yes, it's an iPhone 4.


----------



## Romas

Hi
  Can anybody to check what the version of USB built on this apm?
  I`m really interested - would be play DAC  - 24 bit FLAC?
  If USB v. 1.xx it will be impossible


----------



## jamato8

I am not really up that much on USB. I thought USB can only output 16/48. Can USB put out a 24/96 signal?


----------



## vkvedam

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am not really up that much on USB. I thought USB can only output 16/48. Can USB put out a 24/96 signal?


 
   
  Not possible with MacBook Pro, I could assure you that. It could only do 16/48.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





vkvedam said:


> Not possible with MacBook Pro, I could assure you that. It could only do 16/48.


 
  What do you have, X ray computer? :T)
   
  What about a few pieces of hardware that state they get 24/96 from the USB. One costs around 1100. I don't understand how they get more from what is being offered at the output of the USB.


----------



## barleyguy

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> What do you have, X ray computer? :T)
> 
> What about a few pieces of hardware that state they get 24/96 from the USB. One costs around 1100. I don't understand how they get more from what is being offered at the output of the USB.


 
   
  USB can do 24/96 just fine.  I've got an M-Audio Transit that does it.  On Windows, it needs drivers, as does any USB device that does anything over 16/48.  The stock windows drivers don't support anything higher than that.  MacOSX supports 24/96 with the stock drivers, depending on which USB receiver chip is in the device.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> What do you have, X ray computer? :T)
> 
> What about a few pieces of hardware that state they get 24/96 from the USB. One costs around 1100. I don't understand how they get more from what is being offered at the output of the USB.


 
   
  Nope, I've got a Super Computer. Haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  It's got to be un-sampling, just the way Pico does I think. That is something I don't understand unless you've got your own software with it which allows transfer in 24/96.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote: 





barleyguy said:


> USB can do 24/96 just fine.  I've got an M-Audio Transit that does it.  On Windows, it needs drivers, as does any USB device that does anything over 16/48.  The stock windows drivers don't support anything higher than that.  MacOSX supports 24/96 with the stock drivers, depending on which USB receiver chip is in the device.


 

 Well I've checked in midi properties and there is no option for 24/96 over USB, it's only available over optical. Where did you get that thing from? Or does the Mac OS detect what USB device it has got plugged in?


----------



## EddieE

From Meier Audio's write up for the hiface:
   
_Transfer of audio-data through USB to a DAC is normally limited to 16bit / 48 kHz data maximum. *Vista and WINDOWS7 principly allow for data rates upto 24bit / 96 kHz but the USB-ports of most DAC units do not accept these rates yet.*_
   
  And further down in his write up for the Nuforce ICON HDP:
   
_This fine headphone amplifier has a built-in DAC and has analog inputs, coaxial and optical digital inputs as well as *an USB-input (which accepts upto 24bit / 96kHz!)*. _
   
  Really annoying that more DACs don't allow for 24bit through USB, since it is clearly possible.
   
_Source: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/_


----------



## jamato8

If the Mac OS X allows for 24/96 over the USB how do you rip it to the hard drive if the only record option is 16/48?


----------



## mrspeakers

The 16/48KHz is a function of the TI chip, and use of USB 1.0 to avoid custom drivers.  Limiting to 48KHz via the TI chip is because the USB 1.0 can't support full bandwidth.  I'm a bit fuzzy on this next part, so corrections are welcome, but I think this is because the 1.0 is used to force a synchronous USB transfer, as the assumption has been asynch transfers create to much jitter and degrade audio.  For devices that don't have a quality internal clock or seriuos jitter reduction and rely on cheap TI USB chips to either be the DAC or to directly drive the DAC, this is an issue.
   
  CEnterance makes the DACPort which uses adaptive transfers instead of synchronous but has a strong buffer to eliminate jitter.  I believe tey use the USB 2.0 interface in an adaptive mode to get support for 24/96 over USB.  By having strong buffering and jitter reduction/re-clocking in the device, the vagaries of adaptive transfers on jitter are eliminated and yet no driver is used so it's user friendly and reliable.  Probably, the D12 could have used a different interface than the TI chip, since CEntrance has proven you don't need synchronous transfer to get great sound if your circuitry is good at reclocking.  
   
  The D12 has a TI USB chip which sets the limit on USB input to 48KHz.  The TI also has a DAC, but it appears it's not used, instead I infer the D12 sends S/PDIF recovered from the USB to the Cirrus CS8416 receiver which reclocks and outputs to the DAC.  The CS allows the S/PDIF from Toslink to be used for higher bitrate audio.  
   
  Using the CS chip to reclock everything is probably part of why this sounds so darn good.  The CS chip says "It has an extremely low-jitter clock-recovery mechanism that yields a very clean recovered clock from the incoming audio stream."  It'd be interesting to see how accurate the recovered clock is, or if the D12 simply has it's own clock.  
   
  Anyone peak at the board to look for a clock yet?


----------



## Mad Max

Isn't USB 1.0's bandwidth supposed to be overkill for 24/192?  Then 2.0 even more - the problem is supposed to be in the OS drivers, no?
  Stuff like this pop up months after I read the thread on the subject and then I can't find the dang thread again.


----------



## jamato8

Yes there are a couple of sources for chips that can do 24/96 on USB but I still don't see how to rip a disc to a hard drive on a mac and have the resulting information 24/96. 
   
  I do have a couple of downloads that are 24/96 that I use on optical but they were downloaded while I was in the states (purchased there as a download) and they sound excellent but how do you do this inside of the computer when all that is shown is 16/48 for recording or burning?


----------



## Mad Max

I was just talking about playback.  Recording is something else.  I know in windows you can burn/rip 24/96 to/from a DVD with the right software (I've ripped two DVD-A albums).  No way for you to get past the OS' processing layers and what not?  There might be some third-party utilities that can help you, but I wouldn't know.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Isn't USB 1.0's bandwidth supposed to be overkill for 24/192?  Then 2.0 even more - the problem is supposed to be in the OS drivers, no?
> Stuff like this pop up months after I read the thread on the subject and then I can't find the dang thread again.


 


  USB has bandwidth for 12Mbps, 192K/24 consumes 9,216,00bps, which is pretty close to full usage, and assuming latency, interrupts, etc. probably is not an easy load for USB 1, and definitely couldn't handle simultaneous I/O.  USB 2 does 480Mbps which obviously is an easy fit...  
   
  So USB 1 is definitely NOT overkill, it's really close to the limit for 96KHz bi-directional, which is probably what a lot of chipmakers target, so for cost and reliability they shoot lower.  
   
  Also (my assumption, USB guru may correct) I believe the 12 Mbps is for asynchronous and as I mentioned, conventional wisdom was that to minimize jitter you needed synchronous transmission, which will usually reduce bandwidth.  For most users these days, they have 256K audio, not even CD, so the volume market, which is what chip people care about, has little need for 24/96, and from a marketing perspective probably a good call though being interested in high-end I think it's deplorable.
   
  There is a USB 2.0 audio device class, and I looked and there are a couple of chips that purport to support this, not sure why they don't have more uptake.  Probably these are in the more expensive desktop units that have high-speed 96 or 192K USB interfaces.
   
  Bottom line, this explains why the D12 USB interface is limited to 48K, and why it still sounds great over USB is the jitter-reduction of the CS chip.  For the pricepoint of this device, using a pricier USB chip probably cost more than offering the optical interface, wouldn't yield sonic benefts, and would have pushed the price over $300.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Yes there are a couple of sources for chips that can do 24/96 on USB but I still don't see how to rip a disc to a hard drive on a mac and have the resulting information 24/96.
> 
> I do have a couple of downloads that are 24/96 that I use on optical but they were downloaded while I was in the states (purchased there as a download) and they sound excellent but how do you do this inside of the computer when all that is shown is 16/48 for recording or burning?


 


  Could you clarify your question?  Are you trying to rip SACD or something?  If only regular CD, it'd actually degrade your sound quality to convert to a higher sampling rate.  
   
  If you set the optical out on a Mac to 24/96 I believe it outputs the native format without conversion, so CD audio will still output 16/44.1, for example.  I have only used optical for 24/96 and USB for CD-rate, so I haven't tested the 24/96 output using CD audio to check the sample rate and bit depth.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No, I don't upsample as I question how you can replace what the chip is programmed to guess at. Some people like it I don't. You can't rip SACD's but then I know you know that. 
   
  I downloaded some FLAC files that are 24/96. 
   
  Where do you adjust the optical output for bits and sampling rate on a Mac?


----------



## pekingduck

Go to System > Audio MIDI Setup
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I downloaded some FLAC files that are 24/96.
> 
> Where do you adjust the optical output for bits and sampling rate on a Mac?


----------



## jamato8

I still can't find it. I have seen MIDI before but can't locate it under system or sound, which search shows it to be there but I can't locate it. 
   
  Ok, I found it but only after a search but for some reason it isn't showing up unless I do a search and then I can configure it, which I did.


----------



## zheric

Just got mine in today. Really happy with how quickly I got it, and they sent me one without the logo and text on the top like I requested. I only had a couple of minutes to try it out, but I went from cheap headphones/earphones straight to SRH840s and SE535s so hopefully I'll be able to appreciate my gear properly.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I still can't find it. I have seen MIDI before but can't locate it under system or sound, which search shows it to be there but I can't locate it.
> 
> Ok, I found it but only after a search but for some reason it isn't showing up unless I do a search and then I can configure it, which I did.


 


  Hi Jam.  Easiest way: spotlight "Audio Midi Setup" and open the app.  It's not a control panel...  From their you can set bitrate and depth for each output option, and assign the audio output to be used for audio and system alerts (e.g. use midi for audio and internal speakers for system beeps).


----------



## pekingduck

In case you didn't know, you need to restart iTunes everytime you change the sampling rate/bit depth
   
AyreWave has the ability to change the settings for you automatically but it's still in Beta and crashes often..


----------



## vkvedam

Well that's Applications-->Utilities-->Audio MIDI Setup and then look for USB Audio Codec Out options. Still I don't understand taking it above 16/48 over USB unless there are some special drivers. That's why I just use optical which is 24/96 and all the HD content is in that.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





vkvedam said:


> Well that's Applications-->Utilities-->Audio MIDI Setup and then look for USB Audio Codec Out options. Still I don't understand taking it above 16/48 over USB unless there are some special drivers. That's why I just use optical which is 24/96 and all the HD content is in that.


 

 I prefer optical and with the new 1300 multi core optical cable, all the more. But, I would like to find where to change USB but even with the above directions, I can't find USB in MIDI. Will continue to look.  
   
  Jam


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I prefer optical and with the new 1300 multi core optical cable, all the more. But, I would like to find where to change USB but even with the above directions, I can't find USB in MIDI. Will continue to look.
> 
> Jam


 


   
  The USB Audio CODEC is the D12...  It's a generic class driver, I think, hence not named.  If your USB is not connected it will go away, only active and available devices are displayed.


----------



## Gauss1777

Question:
   
  How much difference is it between the DAC on the ipod classic late 2009 and DACs on the D12? I have a D12 coming soon! I'm impatient and can't be sure if I ever have to look around for a better alternative than the ipod. I've also ordered a LOD.
   
  Which player would be nicely paired with the D12? I've read that there are even players that doesn't take any advantage from a portable external player, maybe because of the phones being used. I'll be using ATH-M50s. From what a guy tells me, there is a noticeable difference when driving M50s directly from the ipod than from an iBasso D3, where dynamics and overall SQ are better.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





gauss1777 said:


> Question:
> 
> How much difference is it between the DAC on the ipod classic late 2009 and DACs on the D12? I have a D12 coming soon! I'm impatient and can't be sure if I ever have to look around for a better alternative than the ipod. I've also ordered a LOD.
> 
> Which player would be nicely paired with the D12? I've read that there are even players that doesn't take any advantage from a portable external player, maybe because of the phones being used. I'll be using ATH-M50s. From what a guy tells me, there is a noticeable difference when driving M50s directly from the ipod than from an iBasso D3, where dynamics and overall SQ are better.


 
   
  The D12's DAC should prove superior to an onboard DAC provided on any standard DAP.  One exception could be the Hifiman products.
   
  As far as players that would pair nicely with the D12....something that outputs a digital signal, otherwise other amp options may be a better choice (and a little smaller).  Not many options out there, but at least the D12 is versatile enough to take in all of the usual types of inputs.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

The iriver H120/140 have optical digital out, but they are not made anymore and can be hard to find. However, the QLS QA350 has optical out, coaxial out and line out as well as headphone out, and it is being sold on Ebay right now. I should be receiving one soon, so I will post my findings although I do not have a D12 or any DAC.


----------



## Gradoman

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> The iriver H120/140 have optical digital out, but they are not made anymore and can be hard to find.


 








 120GB H140


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

20GB H120


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Seriously though, for the rest of you, the QLS QA350 is only $171 with shipping off Ebay. You can hook this player up to the D12 three different ways, although the two digital methods would probably sound the best. Included with the player is a 2gb SD card, that is all it runs on. A32gb card can be had for $50 off amazon, but I suggest getting as many 8GB as you need because you have to navigate this player by folder. There is an included remote, so it is not as bad as you think (you just press the number on the remote that correspond with the folder you want.)


----------



## Gauss1777

The QA350 is a very nice idea. I'd pay 200 more bucks if it had Hard Drive, better case and a better MCU which allowed to load something like rockbox. If an ipod has a powerful enough mcu and hard drive I don't think it's impossible. I hope QLS to make later a better revision with better MCU and allowing it's device to be open for modders. Now imagine something like the QA350 but with an ipod screen, rockbox and hard drive!


----------



## barleyguy

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Isn't USB 1.0's bandwidth supposed to be overkill for 24/192?  Then 2.0 even more - the problem is supposed to be in the OS drivers, no?
> Stuff like this pop up months after I read the thread on the subject and then I can't find the dang thread again.


 

 USB 1.0 has a _theoretical _bandwidth of 12 Mbps.  24/192 is about 8 megabits, not counting protocol overhead.  It's really about 10 megabits, because you can't just send the audio data, there's lots of other stuff that needs to be in there.  So 24/192 would be borderline.  24/96 has plenty of overhead though.  Still, the USB bus speed is not the reason that external chips won't do higher sample rates.  AFAIK it's simply because there was no commonly accepted standard established for anything greater than 16/48, so each device manufacturer has to make their own implementation.
   
  Maybe a couple of years down the road there will finally be a standard that supports higher.  Until then, we have to put up with special drivers, and mostly flaky implementations.


----------



## Mad Max

Thanks, I've already been corrected, lol.


----------



## CEE TEE

I have OS 10.4.11 and I don't think I have the output options shown above... 
   

   
  BUT, I am up and running...


----------



## mrspeakers

Take the digital output on 16/44.1 and 24/96 source material via optical, and drive your receiver or an external DAC that can show the sample rate, and you'll know what the 10.4.11 is actually doing relative to output sample rate (as in it downsamples or leaves it alone).


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I have OS 10.4.11 and I don't think I have the output options shown above...
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, I am up and running...


 

 I just went through the same thing. It is there but do a search for MIDI and Audio MIDI setup will come up. I dragged and dropped it on my tool bar so I can always access it but with it you can configure for 24/96 and if you have a USB device attached and it is 24/96 capable, you can change USB to the 24/96.


----------



## GreenLeo

I'm using the QA350 as well now.  The UI for navigation is usable at best.  The SQ for the given price is great though and mod is required.
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Seriously though, for the rest of you, the QLS QA350 is only $171 with shipping off Ebay. You can hook this player up to the D12 three different ways, although the two digital methods would probably sound the best. Included with the player is a 2gb SD card, that is all it runs on. A32gb card can be had for $50 off amazon, but I suggest getting as many 8GB as you need because you have to navigate this player by folder. There is an included remote, so it is not as bad as you think (you just press the number on the remote that correspond with the folder you want.)


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

What do you mean, "mod is required"? I know you can replace the caps and stuff with better quality ones and possibly give it a more potent battery, is this what you mean?


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I just went through the same thing. It is there but do a search for MIDI and Audio MIDI setup will come up. I dragged and dropped it on my tool bar so I can always access it but with it you can configure for 24/96 and if you have a USB device attached and it is 24/96 capable, you can change USB to the 24/96.


 

 Thanks, Jamato!  I'll try again tonight, I can't wait to have everything configured and set-up- it is already sounding so good...
   
  Do you also have the older operating system?  If I can't get to the settings with 10.4.11, I'll post again here.


----------



## jamato8

I have 10.6.5 on my MacBook Pro. The setting are there but you have to go into the MIDI setup. Go into Applications, then at the bottom is the Utilities folder. The MIDI setup is there and that is how you setup the bit and sampling rate for optical and if you have a USB device connected, the higher bit and sampling rate, if the USB has a chip that can go higher. There will be a few USB receivers on the market soon that can do the 24/96.


----------



## GreenLeo

Yep-in order to bring out its potential.  Sorry that I didn't make it clear in my first post.
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> What do you mean, "mod is required"? I know you can replace the caps and stuff with better quality ones and possibly give it a more potent battery, is this what you mean?


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

What are the mods you did, how expensive are they, and how easy to install are they? Replacing a battery is easy, but do caps require soldering? 
   


greenleo said:


> Yep-in order to bring out its potential.  Sorry that I didn't make it clear in my first post.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Gradoman

Yeah resistors/transistors/capacitor is component level and will need soldering (if everything is surface mount, not socketed like D12 opamps)


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks. How difficult is the soldering and what are the improvements?


----------



## Gradoman

If you need to ask then probably a good idea not to start off with D12. Get some beginners electronics kits. Radio Shack used to have them ages ago (build your own radio) Now they're ready made with click in sections :-/


----------



## GreenLeo

There are different mods and different DIYers that mods it.  erji.net has a thread on it--if you can read simplified chinese characters, you may read their suggestions.  However, I do agree that this is not for novice.
   
   
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> What are the mods you did, how expensive are they, and how easy to install are they? Replacing a battery is easy, but do caps require soldering?


----------



## wolfen68

I had an opportunity to hear HiFlight’s topkit that includes 2 buffers, 2 LR opamps, and 1 alternate LR opamp.  During this listen, I used JH13's, RS-1’s and HF-2's.  
   
  Since I know very well how the stock D12 compares to (and falls short of) the SR71 (which is my personal favorite benchmark amp), I spent time not only comparing the stock D12 opamps to the topkit, but also compared the opamps to the SR71 to see if the same stock D12 shortcomings were still there.  It was also easy to rapidly switch back and forth between the SR71 amd D12 amp using the D12 DAC as the source for both.
   
  With the 8532 buffers and two single opamps, the combination has a nice open sound and more separation than the stock D12.  Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more than I've heard in a portable amp....even more than the SR71 which is saying something.  Instruments like trumpets and cymbols sound great...better than the stock D12.  
        
  The bass is spot on (tight and impactful with better microdynamics than the stock D12) and I would not change a thing in that department.  Detail level is also spot on....all of my test track detail ques were hit by this combination with no problem.   
   
  I've always had a personal preference to a slightly darker and fuller sound.  The topkit is a little brighter and more aggressive than stock...and though it sounds good, I'm wondering if this combination will lead me to listening fatigue over extended listening sessions.  However, so far….no problems. 
   
  In summary, I believe this “half” of the topkit definitely sounds better than the stock D12, and brings it very close to my historical benchmark amp. 
I also spent some time with the alternate dual opamp.  While I can note some differences between the alternate dual opamp and the original LR opamps...in truth, the overall quality on both seems to be to the point in which my ears struggle to discern which I like better. 
   
The alternate opamp seems very slightly fuller/warmer and more upfront.  Detail and bass level/quality seem very similar to the other LR opamps.  The alternate also seems to present a slight reduction of instrument separation and openness. 
 
To my ears, the alternate opamp moves the sound back in the direction of the D12's stock opamps.  As far as which one I like better, they are close enough (and enjoyable enough) that it would take me an extended period of listening to pick a favorite. 
 
Both combinations sound very strong to me and appear to be good options to tweak the D12's sound.  Thanks HiFlight for pushing the D12 (and its little brother the D10) forward!


----------



## CEE TEE

Don't have my Sony LOD yet, but:


----------



## CEE TEE

D12 vs. P4:


----------



## lcats

Based on this thread, I have just ordered a D12 to compliment my H120 (now with 80GB HD).  Previously I had been using a SuperPro DAC 707 and an RSA Tomahawk, or just the Tomahawk with analogue line-out.  I hope to see a modest improvement in sound, and a major improvement in portability!
   
  From reading here, I'm still not clear what comes in the topkit, nor if the Sysconcept cable is the newest one described.


----------



## CEE TEE




----------



## CEE TEE

*Top (3) chips = Stock Rolling Kit*
*Bottom (5) chips = HiFlight "TopKit"*
   
*TopKit = (2) Combos of Opamps/Buffers*
   
*"Jazz/Classical" = (1) Pink Dual Opamp + use (2) silver buffers*
   
*"Rock/Pop" = (2) LR Brown/Red Opamps + use (2) silver buffers. *


----------



## jamato8

Here is a link to the new 1300 fiber optical cable. I find it also enhances the sound quality of 16/48. The cable without the bends like the one linked to is 37 dollars up to 1 meter and I believe it is 16 dollars for each additional meter. 
   
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=349


----------



## Rndmness

Any ideas on how this amp would sound with the SA6 and ESW9?


----------



## jamato8

I have the ESW10 and it does a fine job driving them with ease.


----------



## Rndmness

Are there any noticeable changes to the sound? Also, the d12 is better sonically and power-wise than both the d4 and the d10 right?
Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

The D4 is has more potential for power as it runs at a higher voltage when using a 9 volt battery. The D12 is better sounding than the D10, which it replaces. The D12 is to my ear, a very excellent sounding amp and with the dual dacs, gives you a very good dac section that can handle input from USB, optical or coax for the digital connection.


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone,
  I have been out of head-fi for a few months but am back now, at least where portable head-fi is concerned. I use an iphone as a source most of the time and will be getting a laptop with optical quite soon again (I LOVED my macbook pro but that had a quite unfortunate accident). I am going to get a pair of iems again quite soon, not sure which yet. But the ibasso d12 (with eventual topkit) is certainly on my shortlist. I hope it will work well with the iphone 4 via lineout.
  Such a pity ibasso cant appropriate the chip that makes it possible to get the digital data stream from te iphones lineout, that would be so Ideal. I guess then it would be on a level with iriver h140+d12.
  I guess as it is I will use the ibasso just with my iphone and lineout cable and with a laptop and optical when I have a bit more room.
  Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## jamato8

Optical on the D12 is 24/96. The cable I mentioned from SysConcepts though is required because the single core optical isn't that effective for transmission of the higher bit rate from what I have read.


----------



## Packgrog

Just to reiterate: While the iBasso D10 and D12 can handle 24/96 through SPDIF (optical and electric), the iRiver H120 and H140 will only ever output at 16/44.  It's still unclear what the hardware could be full capable of, but the software will only output 16/44.  I believe the original firmware can't even play higher res files, but Rockbox will: it just downsamples everything to 16/44.  I've also done comparisons between playing a high-res file in Rockbox on the H120 with the same song transcoded and dithered from the hi-res to 16/44 in Foobar2000, and the pre-transcoded version did seem to sound much better.  The Rockbox developers openly admit that the downsampling is not very good, and you're better served by just sticking with files already in 16/44.  Don't let this diminish the quality of it's output, though.  The sound of a properly encoded file with Rockbox on the H120 through my iBasso D1 is amazing, and can only be better with the D10 and D12!
   
  If you absolutely must have hi-res in a portable, you'll need to get one of those HiFiMAN players, which will set you back more money, and have less robust and feature-rich software.  I'm dying to find out which would ultimately sound better in a direct listening test, though.


----------



## jamato8

I have been using the D12 with my MacBook Pro which can output 24/96 on the optical. Too bad someone doesn't work on the software of the Rockbox but I doubt they will.


----------



## Armaegis

I know I've seen some mention on these forums about a portable digital transport that can provide coax/optical into the D10/D12. Can't remember what they're called though... I just remember them looking like little portable hard drives (which doesn't narrow it down at all, hmm).


----------



## CEE TEE

I think iRiver H120


----------



## pekingduck

The QA350? http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/479032/qls-qa-350-wav-a-new-portable-player-with-digital-output
   
  There are other PMPs with SPDIF outputs but the names escape me..
   
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I know I've seen some mention on these forums about a portable digital transport that can provide coax/optical into the D10/D12. Can't remember what they're called though... I just remember them looking like little portable hard drives (which doesn't narrow it down at all, hmm).


----------



## Armaegis

Yeah, the QLS stuff was what I was thinking of. Now if only they could build one with a compressed format decoder... but that would require more software/firmware shenanigans. I guess that's the advantage of wav, just pure audio data that can stream (sort of) directly out.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I have the QA350, and I love it. I am not utilizing it to the full extent with a good DAC yet, but I will. I tried it at a meet hooked up to a good DAC and amp via coaxial, and it sounded phenomenal.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I have been using the D12 with my MacBook Pro which can output 24/96 on the optical. Too bad someone doesn't work on the software of the Rockbox but I doubt they will.



   
  I tinkered with the code to try to see if I could bump up the maximum throughput, but didn't have much success.  The problem is with the sections that happen after the resampling, which all assume 16/44 input.  It would be extremely involved to try to make changes to it, and without knowing the limitations of the hardware itself, it would be tough to do.  Probably not going to happen.  Given that 95%+ of my audio is in redbook already anyway, and not knowing if there would be a real audible difference between the full hi-res version and a properly encoded and dithered redbook version, it doesn't really seem worth the effort.
   
  And sorry, but I can see no good reason to use a QA350 if the H1#0 -> iBasso D# combo is available.  WAV only playback vs. wide codec support with gapless playback, ReplayGain, and a lot of nice interface and sound configuration options?  No thanks.


----------



## nv88

Any more comments on the sound quality of the D12?  There doesn't seem to be as much gushing praise for the D12 as for the D10. 
   
  I've got a D1 with batteries that no longer charge.  I was saving up for a D10.  Now the D12 looks like the obvious choice.  Will there be a noticable improvement? I'm using the optical input from a iriver H120 most of the time.


----------



## wolfen68

Ibasso will likely be able to provide you with a replacement battery.


----------



## nv88

I plan to send the D1 off to iBasso, for a new battery and repairs to the charging circuit, after I get a new amp .  The last time I sent it back for repairs it took about 30 days to get to China.  4 days to get back once the repairs were done...


----------



## tuahogary

Hey guys, got my Anaconda a few days ago! I just want to confirm something that I've noticed with the Anaconda. Is it true that it cannot be powered using usb itself (with "Charge" turned off)? I noticed the battery warning light blinked after using it sparingly for 3 days even though it was hooked onto a pc the entire time. Does this mean the usb connection provides only the signal to the dac part of the Anaconda?


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote:


nv88 said:


> Any more comments on the sound quality of the D12?  There doesn't seem to be as much gushing praise for the D12 as for the D10.
> 
> I've got a D1 with batteries that no longer charge.  I was saving up for a D10.  Now the D12 looks like the obvious choice.  Will there be a noticable improvement? I'm using the optical input from a iriver H120 most of the time.


 

  I am waiting until I have lived with it longer and maybe compared it to some other portable amps before making any big statements but right now I really enjoy *Sony X>LOD>D12w/TopKit>HF-2* as bedside and transportable rig.
   
  The DAC certainly does not resolve as much the Benchmark DAC1 (shouldn't expect it to), so the Benchmark is what I want on my desktop permanently.  I have my friend's unit.
   
  But so far I really like the D12 and it drives my PK1 and Grados well for such a small thing.  It is very flexible with all the inputs.  I also need time with different opamps/buffers inside.


----------



## MrBee

Quote: 





tuahogary said:


> Hey guys, got my Anaconda a few days ago! I just want to confirm something that I've noticed with the Anaconda. Is it true that it cannot be powered using usb itself (with "Charge" turned off)? I noticed the battery warning light blinked after using it sparingly for 3 days even though it was hooked onto a pc the entire time. Does this mean the usb connection provides only the signal to the dac part of the Anaconda?


 


  As far as I know, yes, it only supplies the signal unless you flip the charge switch. (I just got mine, too.)


----------



## nv88

I'm very close to ordering a D12.  Can anyone comment on how much improvement I'll likely hear compared to my D1? 
   
  What is the consensus?  Is the Topkit a "must have" for the D12? Should I be happy with the stock D12, or just go ahead and get the Topkit and be done with it?  What is currently the most popular opamp combination for the D12?


----------



## jamato8

The D12 is a couple of steps up from the d1 now. A lot has changed since the exciting release of the first portable with optical input. The D12 is smaller, more powerful and has a nice pure sound. What combo is the best I don't know, for op amps. Someone else will have to chime in. I understand HiFlight has a new kit that is extremely good and worth having.


----------



## HiFlight

As much as I liked my D1, despite the best  combinations that I could find for upgrading the opamps, IMO, the SQ of the D12 exceeds that of the D1.   The D12 Topkit outperforms the D1 Topkit due to the refinement and evolution of the amplifier circuitry.  I am continually amazed at the performance of the D12.


----------



## CEE TEE

Okay, right now I have a clear preference _(with my set-up and limited experience)_... *D12 with dummy buffers and stock Red LR Opamps*.
   
  This is for my Bedside/Work/Transportable rig:  *SonyX>LOD>HF-2/MS1/PK1*
   
  I used Elbow's "Fugitive Motel"  Aquavit's "Granular Sea" & Sade's Soldier of Love album. 
   
   
  For perspective, I have been enjoying as desktop set-up:   *Mac G5>Optical>Benchmark DAC1>HF-2*
   
  (I'm borrowing the Benchmark until I can buy one...but it is considered by many to be more "analytical" or "linear" as DAC/Amp.)
   
  But, for me- this combination in the D12 gave me the clarity/soundstage/linearity with less "round/bulbous" mid-range and less "grain" in different areas with HF-2.
   
  I played around a lot with the different chips.  I think you have to figure out your own method of rotating between them all and then ruling out what you don't like with your music...
   
  I tried to do a "round-robin" and go back and forth like I was at the eye doctor- "ONE or TWO?"  "Okay..."  "ONE or TWO?"  "Not Sure?"  "Wanna go back?"


----------



## nv88

Ordered a D12 last night.  Now the wait.  At least it shouldn't take too long.


----------



## lcats

It took iBasso 4 working days to get the D12 to me in Vermont!  Never received anything so fast.


----------



## CEE TEE

To add, I figured out my current personal opamp combo above with no EQ and on high gain.
   
  I do plan on rolling combos again in a week or two to see if the amp changes or if my preference changes...


----------



## Gauss1777

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> With the 8532 buffers and two single opamps, the combination has a nice open sound and more separation than the stock D12.  Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more than I've heard in a portable amp....even more than the SR71 which is saying something.  Instruments like trumpets and cymbols sound great...better than the stock D12.


 

  I'm curious. The user HiFlight sells this topkits? How much? Would it be the same if I try to get 2 AD8532 buffers at electronic stores around on my country? I see there are many types  Are they these? http://www.analog.com/en/audiovideo-products/display-driver-electronics/ad8532/products/product.html
   
  I'm really anxious, just today my D12 was shipped to my city after 3 weeks of waiting! It should be soon here!


----------



## wolfen68

HiFlight is making these at this time.  The 8532's you can find (not sure which they are).  The opamps have been modified to class A.  Try PM'ing HiFlight if you have questions...he's a very helpful enthusiast.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, I am pretty sure I am going to buy the d12, I will need to pair it with my iphone via a lod. Is the one made by ibasso adequate? Has anyone tried the d12 with the ibasso? I would like to pair them together with something, maybe velcro but am afraid of itnerference. Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## CEE TEE

The one from Ibasso look nice, but I can say that I like Qusp's LODs.  They are low profile, rounded and he does something to make the connection fit more snugly. 
   
  Something else you want to be sure of (or it will annoy you to no end), is that the LOD makes the iPhone think that is a "compatible device."  Or, it will keep asking you if you want to put the phone into "Airplane Mode" to "Reduce interference."
   
  Qusp's LODs avoid that, thank goodness.
   
  The Head-Direct for about $45 I returned as it was really stiff and the plastic covering did not look as transparent and nice as it did on the site.
   
  I bought the Nuforce connector and it was pretty big and loose...only for static use.


----------



## Anouk

Hi Thanks for the info about the lods by Qusp, I think the ibasso lod will be flexible enough. There might be a problem with compatibility but then again, might not. I am also using my iphone with a jbl dock made for the 3gs. on occasion I do get a notification but not often. I do htink qusps lods will be more expansive then ibassos though and if the one by ibasso is ok then I can combine orders. I will send him a pm though. Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone,
 I know hiflight is evaluating different topkits and some people have received theirs. Will some people do reviews in this thread about the different kits and how they compare against stock? I am very itnerested in these.
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk




----------



## lcats

I received both the D12 Topkit and the new Sys.concept cable yesterday.  It is too early for me to try to put into words the definite improvement I hear over the otherwise excellent stock kit and an older 0.5 meter Sys.concept cable, but switching cables I hear a higher resolution of  instrumental sounds with the new cable, more differentiation between timbres.  It is somewhat difficult to put into words, and the effect is subtle but definitely there. 
   
  With the Topkit I hear improved transient response and a wider sound stage (using the jazz / classical opamp). 
   
  I wonder if anyone here has thoughts about a belt case for my H120 / D12 combo.  I have a skin on my H120, but would like more protection for the pair when used as a portable out in public. The Sys.concept cable looks strong, but I'd like not to bump it accidentally.   It would have to be more than a slide-in case, ideally one which both opened up, like a Hippocase, and which gave easy access to the H120's screen and joystick.   I have a bit of skill in leather-working and could perhaps make a one-off, but a stock case would be nice.  TIA.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


lcats said:


> I wonder if anyone here has thoughts about a belt case for my H120 / D12 combo.  I have a skin on my H120, but would like more protection for the pair when used as a portable out in public. The Sys.concept cable looks strong, but I'd like not to bump it accidentally.   It would have to be more than a slide-in case, ideally one which both opened up, like a Hippocase, and which gave easy access to the H120's screen and joystick.   I have a bit of skill in leather-working and could perhaps make a one-off, but a stock case would be nice.  TIA.


 

 I looked for a long time for a belt case for this combo (originally H140 and D10) and finally found a Tamrac MX5378 lens case used for camera zoom lenses.  Since the optical cable loop faces downward, I placed a piece of foam in the bottom as a spacer so that it does not rest on (and stress) the optical cable.  It's perfect, and I've used the case for over a year now.  Here's what it looks like:
   
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/198712-REG/Tamrac_MX537801_MX5378_M_A_S_Lens_Case.html 
   
  You'll have to measure everything up to confirm size.  They make all different sizes of these, and they're well padded with a belt loop.


----------



## jamato8

I use the toggle remote on the 120 and 140. It was designed for the later iRiver but works excellent with the earlier, and IMO better 120 and 140. It is a true toggle control and is miles ahead of the stock remote but very hard to find. I bought both of mine from a seller in Korea on eBay. They are around 50 dollars but very much worth it because it works just like the toggle on the iRiver but even a little better and the LCD is better than the stock remote.


----------



## lcats

Do you mean the remote for the H320 / H 340, or something else?


----------



## lcats

If it is the remote for the H3xx, what can it do, and what not?  My H120 was bought used from a Head-fi member, and did not come with a remote.  When I put a remote from an imp-550 on it -- which fits -- I find I cannot go backwards in the file menu more than one level, so that it is pretty useless to chose files other than  ones at the same level in the directory.  Therefore I have not used it.  If the toggle remote preserves all the main playback options of the toggle stick on the body of the H120, then it would be very useful.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I think it was for the 340. It is a deluxe version of the stock remote that came with the h120, though I say deluxe only because it is what the one for the 120/140 should have been. Yes you can do everything with it and it doesn't mess up like the stock version that came with the 120, which was a joke.


----------



## lcats

There were 10 of these remotes, new, on German eBay; now there are nine, since I ordered one.


----------



## Gorthon

This is the case I am using.  I got it at walmart.  I doesn't have a have a belt strap, but it does have a shoulder strap and a nylon loop that could be used with a carabiner to hook.  Like Wolfen mentioned, I have the optical cable loop faceing downward with foam in the bottom as a spacer.  With this I can get the iRiver, D12, and protector in.
  
http://www.caselogic.com/compact_camcorder_high_zoom_camera_case/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=133876&productid=1347412


----------



## lcats

I appreciate the responses on cases!   Searching around my house, I found an old compact camera case that fits, with both a belt loop and and detachable shoulder strap.  Not that pretty, but it will work.
   
  However, if the optical cable is foam-padded at the bottom of a case, pulling the combo out to look at the H120's screen will have that screen near the bottom also, not that convenient.   This problem is happily solved by the use of a remote -- thanks to jamato8 for bringing up the idea and mentioning the H340's toggle remote.   And the plug for the remote will help protect the optical cable too, since it sticks out from the other side of the same end, if not quite as far.
   
  Thanks to all.


----------



## Train

I've just re-read the entire thread, and there is very little information on any final Topkit for the D12. What's in it, where to get it, how it compares to the stock D12, etc. I'm also curious as to this 250ma/ch and how much it impacts battery life. As an overall improvement to the D10 as a DAC/amp, the D12 is on my extreme shortlist for my first real portable setup, and as such I'm very interested in knowing more about these things.
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> I have a prototype Topkit that I am evaluating for the D12 that can supply 250ma/ch.  Further info forthcoming.


----------



## Coatze

Was wondering what kind of demanding phones people have been running on their d12s.  
   
  Looking to make a purchase in the next couple of months but I am limited to a portable amp/dac for a few months longer than that.  Think this'll stand in well with/without topkit until a desktop setup finally has a desk to be set up on?


----------



## stactum

I ordered D12 yesterday and according to ibasso I should get it sometime next week. I'll be using it with Ultrasone Pro 900 and custom-shelled UE TripleFi 10, we'll see how it goes!
  
  Quote: 





coatze said:


> Was wondering what kind of demanding phones people have been running on their d12s.
> 
> Looking to make a purchase in the next couple of months but I am limited to a portable amp/dac for a few months longer than that.  Think this'll stand in well with/without topkit until a desktop setup finally has a desk to be set up on?


----------



## CEE TEE

Really?  I'm not going to re-read the entire thread, but the TopKit consists of Two Buffers + a Dual Opamp (pink) for "Jazz/Classical" and 2 LR Single Opamps (red) for "Rock/Pop" according to Ron (HiFlight).
   
  Swap out the silver buffers for Ron's Silver Buffers.
   
  Then try just the pink opamp or the two red LR opamps.
   
  See what you like.
  
  Quote: 





train said:


> I've just re-read the entire thread, and there is very little information on any final Topkit for the D12. What's in it, where to get it, how it compares to the stock D12, etc. I'm also curious as to this 250ma/ch and how much it impacts battery life. As an overall improvement to the D10 as a DAC/amp, the D12 is on my extreme shortlist for my first real portable setup, and as such I'm very interested in knowing more about these things.


----------



## CEE TEE

You can look at my albums but I posted pictures in this thead of the interior and the rolling kit + TopKit chips in the iBasso extra chip case.
   
_Note:  My picture of the TopKit chips have paint on top of them but Ron is now sending them out with just the edges of the chip adapter boards painted with the color codes.  The iBasso ones that come stock in the unit have paint on top of them like in my pictures (which was of the stock unit)._


----------



## CEE TEE

If you want the TopKit, it is $65 and you send a PM to HiFlight.


----------



## Train

Thanks CEE TEE. I suppose I was looking for more detailed impressions of the Topkit's sound. I'm still curious about the increased output power (and potentially shortened battery life) since I'd like to be able to use this with a wider array of headphones. Guess I'll just have to send off some PMs.


----------



## HiFlight

It is really difficult to try to describe the sound to another individual, as each person hears differently and has differing preferences.  That said, the Topkit widens the frequency range and improves imaging.  Although the amp is capable of outputting a lot of current, in normal listening, only a small amount of the current is actually needed.  The remainder is headroom for momentary high energy transients.   Battery life is pretty much unchanged from stock.  Listening volume level affects battery life probably more than any other factor, as it takes 10X the power every time volume is doubled.
   
  As the Topkit was designed to sound as much like a live performance as possible rather than mega-bass or overly detailed highs, it plays well with nearly all headphones.
  
  Quote: 





train said:


> Thanks CEE TEE. I suppose I was looking for more detailed impressions of the Topkit's sound. I'm still curious about the increased output power (and potentially shortened battery life) since I'd like to be able to use this with a wider array of headphones. Guess I'll just have to send off some PMs.


----------



## Train

Definitely agree with that, but despite their occasionally limited value, it still feels better to have some sort of expectation of performance as opposed to going in willy nilly. I've heard a number of comments here and there about the D10 not quite being up to snuff when it comes to properly driving some higher impedence phones. That's kinda what I was getting at in regards to the increased output power, considering the stock D12 is not much more powerful on paper. Or perhaps my understanding of what's needed to properly drive some headphones is a bit off...either way, I guess I'll just have to pull the trigger on the D12 (unless the upcoming D6 can sway me) and see how I like it for myself before splurging further. I've already spent way beyond my initial budget from when I first started lurking Head-Fi...
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> It is really difficult to try to describe the sound to another individual, as each person hears differently and has differing preferences.  That said, the Topkit widens the frequency range and improves imaging.  Although the amp is capable of outputting a lot of current, in normal listening, only a small amount of the current is actually needed.  The remainder is headroom for momentary high energy transients.   Battery life is pretty much unchanged from stock.  Listening volume level affects battery life probably more than any other factor, as it takes 10X the power every time volume is doubled.
> 
> As the Topkit was designed to sound as much like a live performance as possible rather than mega-bass or overly detailed highs, it plays well with nearly all headphones.


----------



## CEE TEE

@Train:  I really wanted to try and get desktop amp performance in a portable and be able to have the possibility of 300 ohm HD-650 with them.  I think this was unrealistic of me to want.
   
  (I only have small earphones and Grado's/Alessandro's right now.)  My PK1 are ~150 ohm and the D12 on high gain can go up to about 65%-70% of volume for me at max of what I can listen to.
   
  It is not just about volume but a whole host of other things too (sound sig/mating with different phones/flexibility/voltage swing/current/yada yada)... 
   
  After hearing more gear (including P4 and some other desktop DAC/amp combos) and borrowing a friend's HD-600, I really think that I might need the Meier Stepdance or the iBasso fi-Quest to power hard-to-drive phones later *OR* to only use a desktop amp with them *OR *to just be happy with the great phones I can listen to the D12 with.  (But- I have not yet heard the Stepdance or fi-Quest, so I have no idea.)
   
  The D12 is a cool thing to have around because it is basically my *"Audio-Leatherman Tool."*
   
  Is it a substitute for a big toolbox with separate, serious tools?  Not exactly, IMHO.  But for phones up to PK1 driveability, I am really glad to have it...  
   
  I have my Sony X strapped to it at work and I can use all of my current phones with it.  (So far, I don't really need/want to use my IE8 with it.  That's all.)
   
  As for sound with different opamp/buffer combinations, I am not that vocal about my preferences because I think they will change and I haven't listened enough.
   
  So I think it is great that I reserve the right to change and have flexibility with the D12.  There are just so many variables in what you might have a preference for at a _given time_.
   
_Example:_ my current opamp/buffer choice is geared to the music I am listening to + the phones I am using + my current desire for more resolution (to balance out some of my phones).
   
  All of those factors plus my current level of listening experience have changed _dramatically_ over the past 9 months...
   
*Sorry for the long post which s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s the topic! *


----------



## Gauss1777

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> As the Topkit was designed to sound as much like a live performance as possible rather than mega-bass or overly detailed highs, it plays well with nearly all headphones.


 

 I found my ATH M50s to be a little more warm that I would like when using the D12, would that mean that the topkit fixes that issue? I found my M50s to be sharp hurting directly from my iPod Classic.
   
  Actually I was thinking in give up on the M50s, I had senns HD555 wich were dull in comparisson but now I regret to have sold them instead of the M50s. When uping the volume on the HD555 they sounded really nice even from the iPod's output, M50s hurt big time due to being closed phones.
   
  What would be other nice phones if I want to try first that instead of the topkit when using the D12? Something as natural as senns but not on the warm/bassy side as the M50s, still not as dull as the HD555. Something up to HD595's price. Maybe Beyers? AKG? Opened and comfy it's a must too. I haven't tried HD595 but I think would be very similar to a HD555, I used to have the HD555 moded without foams. I would like to consider also IEMS.


----------



## mrspeakers

Driving my JH16s, which are 18ohm, I found the best sound was with buffers removed.  This made the sound much more lifelike, with a greater sense of dynamics and more "air" around acoustic instruments and voice.  I also have a CEntrance DACPort and will write up a mini-review comparing the two over the next month, as there are definite SQ and functional differences.


----------



## CEE TEE

@mrspeakers:  So far, I am using the dummy adapters too.  Looking forward to hearing your comparison with DACPort...


----------



## HiFlight

With many of my L/R combos, I find that using dummy buffers not only moves the SQ to the more neutral, but significantly improves the accuracy, stability, and depth of imaging.  Some opamps, however, need the buffers for impedance matching purposes.  The most notable of the modules that, IMO, sound much better with bypassed buffers is the new "Classical/Jazz" Class A module.  Regardless of which buffers I have tried, it consistently sounds better with bypassed buffers. 
   
  Of course, eliminating the buffers also significantly improves battery life.


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone, YEsterday my ibasso d12 arrived and today the two iems I am intending to use them with the jvc fx700 and the final audio design ba-sb. I am trying them now with the jvc and I must say it sounds pretty good although some instrumjents can be a biutharsh but thats probbably due to the iem. Can someone tell me how I engage the charger on the unit? What I mean is what position of the switch turns the charging ciercuit on? Thanks, Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## jamato8

To charge you would push the switch on the back towards the middle of the amp and towards the outside of the amp for off.


----------



## Anouk

Hi Jam, Sorry I was a bit unclear in my last message but I thought people remembered from the d10 thread that I am blind so cannot read the labelling on the back. No matter though I will hear soon enough if it runs out of juice. In general I am pretty satisfied with it although I hope in the future they will be able to make their new amps a bit more compact, less thick and maybe a bit shorter. I guess they cant do much about the width with all the connectors. Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## CEE TEE

I have an issue right now myself with the D12 and trying to charge it.
   
  The white light on the front of the unit is blinking and the sound quality has gone down.
   
  The back of the unit lights up yellow when I plug the USB cable and wallwart into an outlet.
   
  But the red light on the back of the unit for charging will not go on now and the back swtich does not rock into and stay in the "on" charge position.  (I thought I remembered it either staying in the "on" or the "off" position and charging.)  But now the switch only returns to center after wiggling.
   
  I also had the P4 for a little bit, am I confused or having an issue with the switch?
   
  Thanks in advance...


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





anouk said:


> Hi Jam, Sorry I was a bit unclear in my last message but I thought people remembered from the d10 thread that I am blind so cannot read the labelling on the back. No matter though I will hear soon enough if it runs out of juice. In general I am pretty satisfied with it although I hope in the future they will be able to make their new amps a bit more compact, less thick and maybe a bit shorter. I guess they cant do much about the width with all the connectors. Greetings, Anouk,


 
  I remember, that is why I said to push it towards the center (the switch) to charge and towards the outside of the amp to turn off the charging.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> I have an issue right now myself with the D12 and trying to charge it.
> 
> The white light on the front of the unit is blinking and the sound quality has gone down.
> 
> ...


 
  It would seem that your switch is bad. I would contact iBasso. 
   
  Quote:


anouk said:


> Hi Jam, Sorry I was a bit unclear in my last message but I thought people remembered from the d10 thread that I am blind so cannot read the labelling on the back. No matter though I will hear soon enough if it runs out of juice. In general I am pretty satisfied with it although I hope in the future they will be able to make their new amps a bit more compact, less thick and maybe a bit shorter. I guess they cant do much about the width with all the connectors. Greetings, Anouk,


 
  Because of the sockets used for interchangeable op amps and buffers it would be hard to make it smaller. Also, you have dual dacs and quite a bit of electronics packed in there and a fairly large battery.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, I tried the ibasso d12 with the final audio desigh ba-sb. And it gives hiss. It is audible even on moderately low volumes and low gain. I dont get this with the jvc fx700. Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## 120717

If the light is blinking or fading, and the SQ went down, that's an indicator of the battery needing to be charged I reckon. Either that or the switch like they said, but I'm just speaking from experience with the P3+


----------



## Anouk

Hi again, I do notice now that if I switch the switch on the back to the LEFT then there is less hiss with the final audio design, although it still exists at high gain but noticably less. I do guess that this then disengaged the charging circuit. Interesting though because the fx700 did not have any hiss at all. Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## jamato8

I don't get any hiss from the D12 unless there is some from the source feeding it. There are a number of variables obviously that can effect this but I have fond the D12 to be exceptionally quiet.


----------



## wolfen68

Zero hiss here using JH-13's on the D12.


----------



## jamato8

I am posting a link here to the Sys Concepts optical cable because it is that good. I can hear the difference with 16/48 and anything higher like 24/96 requires it. There really is a difference and for what you get, the cable is cheap. 
   
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=365


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for posting the link, John. I was looking for that but couldn't find it, only the more expensive short one. I probably won't get it any time soon, but now I know where to when i want to upgrade.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Thanks for posting the link, John. I was looking for that but couldn't find it, only the more expensive short one. I probably won't get it any time soon, but now I know where to when i want to upgrade.


 

 I bought 4 additional cables with different ends and lengths, they are that good. I have about 12 of the solid core but I find I miss music when not using the newer cable.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

When you miss something when you don't use it, you got something good. I feel that way with my racing bike and mountain bike on the roads. The racing bike has so much more effortless speed and handling that the mountain bike feels like I am pedaling a boat.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> When you miss something when you don't use it, you got something good. I feel that way with my racing bike and mountain bike on the roads. The racing bike has so much more effortless speed and handling that the mountain bike feels like I am pedaling a boat.


 

 ...but try pedaling that racing bike through some technical singletrack and you'll miss your mountain bike soon enough


----------



## jermng

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am posting a link here to the Sys Concepts optical cable because it is that good. I can hear the difference with 16/48 and anything higher like 24/96 requires it. There really is a difference and for what you get, the cable is cheap.
> 
> http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=365


 


  Wow! I ordered 2 cables with different ends and lengths before I saw this post. Thanks for the re-assurance.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, yeah. The mountain bike rules off road.
   
  To get back on topic, I currently use Monoprice fiber optic cable which is probably the worst on the market. I need some other stuff such as a good source and an amp before I get a good fiber optic cable.


----------



## 120717

Same with the P4 but I kinda need comparisons against the D12 before I consider purchasing either.


----------



## HiFlight

Both the D12 and P4 have excellent amplifier sections.  The P4 offers more possibilities for experimenting with different opamps and has a higher output if you intend to drive very difficult phones such as the AKG K340.   It is a basic amplifier only, whereas the D12 includes inputs for USB, Optical and Coax.   It can be recharged via the USB input and does not require an external charger as does the P4.  
   
  The choice between the 2 is really based on your equipment needs, as both sound excellent.


----------



## 120717

I meant comparisons betweeen their respective equipment types, but I was concerned that by getting a D12 I may lose out on what the P4's amp has to offer, while at the same time I have no idea how good the P4 actually is.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Hiflight has been saying the D12 has enough power for all but the most power hungry cans, and you get a lot of flexibility with it. Unless you have or want some really hard to drive cans, I would go for the D12.


----------



## 120717

I see. As the P4 seems different from the P3+ but the D12 is a new D12 but with what I've heard of it, I guess it could be the better choice for me.
   
  Would this make the D12 better value for money?
   
  There are still a few things to consider however, as the line out on my Fuze doesn't work with Rockbox installed. FLACvest suggested amping from the headphone out but I'm unsure of the consequences.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


p4z said:


> I meant comparisons betweeen their respective equipment types, but I was concerned that by getting a D12 I may lose out on what the P4's amp has to offer, while at the same time I have no idea how good the P4 actually is.




  The P4 has a more powerful amp but both the D12 and P4 are extremely good sounding. It really depends upon what phones you will be using and if you need a dac, and the D12 has dual dacs, one for each channel and being that they are the best portable Wolfson dacs you get some good digital to analog conversion going on there. 
  Quote: 





p4z said:


> I see. As the P4 seems different from the P3+ but the D12 is a new D12 but with what I've heard of it, I guess it could be the better choice for me.
> 
> Would this make the D12 better value for money?
> 
> There are still a few things to consider however, as the line out on my Fuze doesn't work with Rockbox installed. FLACvest suggested amping from the headphone out but I'm unsure of the consequences.


 
  If you amp from the headphone out, you are running the signal through the amp section of the Fuze and then to the amp section of the D12, which in my opinion is one too many amps.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





p4z said:


> There are still a few things to consider however, as the line out on my Fuze doesn't work with Rockbox installed. FLACvest suggested amping from the headphone out but I'm unsure of the consequences.


 

 Do you have the most recent rockbox build? The latest one is supposed to work with Fuze lineout.


----------



## 120717

Armaegis. Oh I was unaware of this, thanks. I'll check with my friend as he put Rockbox on before sending me it.
   
  If it DOES work that's great news as I won't need a new DAP.


----------



## mrspeakers

I was able to operate the D12 very successfully with my JH16s, which are low power consumers, without the buffers.  This noticeably improved the sound, giving even sharper transients and increasing the sense of "air" and dark-space between the notes.  Very impressive and flexible device.
   
  The SQ is ultimately not as good as the CEntrance DACPort, but it's much more flexible and self-powered, so they each have a spot in my quiver...


----------



## jamato8

I have some different op amps I ordered from HiFlight for the D12 that I look forward to trying with buffers bypassed like Mrspeakers mentions. I look forward to the combination with my JH13's.


----------



## mrspeakers

jamato8 said:


> I have some different op amps I ordered from HiFlight for the D12 that I look forward to trying with buffers bypassed like Mrspeakers mentions. I look forward to the combination with my JH13's.






G
Let me know how it goes...


----------



## Train

If I used the D12 as a USB soundcard, is it able to charge via USB while operating as a DAC?


----------



## pekingduck

Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





train said:


> If I used the D12 as a USB soundcard, is it able to charge via USB while operating as a DAC?


----------



## ChiCosta

Hi!
  It's possible to connect D12 Anaconda to LINE IN of an integrated Amp with an 3.5mm - RCA adapter?
  If it's possible, how is the quality?
  Thanks,


----------



## HiFlight

Yes, you can do that easily.  Plug the 3.5mm into the Aux In/Out of the D12 and the RCA plugs into the Line-in inputs (or any input except phono) of your integrated amp. 
  The D12 will then be performing pre-amp duties for your integrated amp.   Note that the volume control of the D12 will have no effect on the volume of the Aux In/Out jack of the D12.  You will need to control the volume with the volume control of your integrated amp.


----------



## ChiCosta

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Yes, you can do that easily.  Plug the 3.5mm into the Aux In/Out of the D12 and the RCA plugs into the Line-in inputs (or any input except phono) of your integrated amp.
> The D12 will then be performing pre-amp duties for your integrated amp.   Note that the volume control of the D12 will have no effect on the volume of the Aux In/Out jack of the D12.  You will need to control the volume with the volume control of your integrated amp.


 

 Nice news!
  If I use it that way, how do you compare is sound compared with Maverick D1? Better?
  Thanks


----------



## HiFlight

I can't say, as I have never heard that amp.  The quality from the Aux In/Out is excellent, so it should do justice to any amp that you decide to use. 
  
  Quote: 





chicosta said:


> Nice news!
> If I use it that way, how do you compare is sound compared with Maverick D1? Better?
> Thanks


----------



## GTL

Interesting comparison with the dacport. Is your D12 stock? Or have you rolled opamps?
   
  Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> I was able to operate the D12 very successfully with my JH16s, which are low power consumers, without the buffers.  This noticeably improved the sound, giving even sharper transients and increasing the sense of "air" and dark-space between the notes.  Very impressive and flexible device.
> 
> The SQ is ultimately not as good as the CEntrance DACPort, but it's much more flexible and self-powered, so they each have a spot in my quiver...


----------



## mrspeakers

Stock, except for removing the buffers.  
   
  I think the buffers will need to go back in when I get the LCD-2s, as they require more wattage to achieve a given SPL...


----------



## GLdgShDjKsHT

so between  d12 or should i wait for the new d6, what do you recommand??


----------



## HiFlight

Nobody can answer that question until the D6 arrives and comparisons can be made between the two.  Much depends upon how important the optical and coax inputs of the D12 are to your setup. 
   
   
  Quote: 





gldgshdjksht said:


> so between d12 or should i wait for the new d6, what do you recommand??


----------



## tball

I'm new to this scene and picked up an Anaconda D12 to use with UE Triple.fi IEMs on a RWA 60GB iMod with Apple Lossless files.  I also plan to use it as a DAC on PC at home/work.  Regarding the opamp choice you posted about (see below), are the OPA637BP opamps available for purchase online somewhere in a configuration that is "ready" to be dropped in the D12 opamp sockets?  Or are these already part of the HiFlight topkit for the D12?  Any clarification would be appreciated.
   
  Quote:


hiflight said:


> I really like the sound of the OPA637BP biased Class A with bypassed buffers in the D12. It seems quite stable and sound great.  Huge downside is the $35 cost of each opamp!   I am currently using bypassed buffers.  The AD8022 and LT1213 also have worked well as buffers with the 637 but LR + buffers do draw a fair amount of quiescent current.
> My D12 is currently driving my K-501s very well using high gain with the bypassed buffers.  The 2-part case is a huge improvement if one does much opamp rolling.


----------



## Gauss1777

Hows the sound of the OPA637BP?
  I want to give the D12 more slam on bass and musical mids for female voices. By slam on the bass I don't mean punchy, but more detailed, fast and with more kick than stock.


----------



## 78tball

Do iBasso amps (ie. D12 or D6) require the type of burn-in that appears to be required with RSA and other amps to achieve a certain stable sound signature?  I have yet to read much of anything on this associated with the iBasso line of amps.  If not, is there a reason why?


----------



## 78tball

Edit.  Sorry.  Double-post.


----------



## Armaegis

Burn-in is in the ear of the beholder. Some hear it, others don't.


----------



## HiFlight

The OPA637BP can be purchased individually from many suppliers (such as Digikey).  If you order them in the DIP configuration, they will plug directly into the D12 L/R sockets.  If they are ordered in SOIC case style, they need to be soldered to the appropriate adapter.   Because of the high cost of the 627/637 opamps, none of the Topkits use them. 
  
  Quote: 





tball said:


> I'm new to this scene and picked up an Anaconda D12 to use with UE Triple.fi IEMs on a RWA 60GB iMod with Apple Lossless files. I also plan to use it as a DAC on PC at home/work. Regarding the opamp choice you posted about (see below), are the OPA637BP opamps available for purchase online somewhere in a configuration that is "ready" to be dropped in the D12 opamp sockets? Or are these already part of the HiFlight topkit for the D12? Any clarification would be appreciated.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Dublo7

Hi guys, I'm considering buying one of these, and I just have a question;
   
  If I want to use this as a DAC on my Macbook Pro, is it possible to use the Optical input on my Macbook Pro, and then plug the D12 into my Meier Cantate via the RCA inputs? How would I go about doing this? Do I simply connect the D12 to my Cantate via a Mini->RCA cable via the Aux output?


----------



## Gorthon

Quote: 





dublo7 said:


> Hi guys, I'm considering buying one of these, and I just have a question;
> 
> If I want to use this as a DAC on my Macbook Pro, is it possible to use the Optical input on my Macbook Pro, and then plug the D12 into my Meier Cantate via the RCA inputs? How would I go about doing this? Do I simply connect the D12 to my Cantate via a Mini->RCA cable via the Aux output?


 

 Yes


----------



## pekingduck

Yes it's exactly as you describe.
   
  Macbook --> (optical cable) -> D12 -> (mini-to-RCA) -> Cantate
  
  Quote: 





dublo7 said:


> Hi guys, I'm considering buying one of these, and I just have a question;
> 
> If I want to use this as a DAC on my Macbook Pro, is it possible to use the Optical input on my Macbook Pro, and then plug the D12 into my Meier Cantate via the RCA inputs? How would I go about doing this? Do I simply connect the D12 to my Cantate via a Mini->RCA cable via the Aux output?


----------



## mrspeakers

Make sure you go to the midi audio control panel and set the system output to 24 bit 96 bit if you have any higher resolution source material or it will be down sampled. That's the only bit that is not obvious...


----------



## castlevania32




----------



## Dublo7

Thanks a lot for the help, folks!


----------



## Kremer930

I have also heard that you should change your midi settings before opening iTunes otherwise it may up and down sample needlessly. I have tried the d12 and it sounds great as a dac running from the MacBook pro.


----------



## Gauss1777

Question about the OPA627/637
  How many should I buy for the D12?
  One if it's the 637 and two if it's the 627?


----------



## HiFlight

Both the OPA627 and 637 are single-channel opamps and two are required regardless of which you choose, however IMO, they sound kind of thin when used in the D10/D12 as they are operating with less than the recommended supply voltage.  .
  Quote: 





gauss1777 said:


> Question about the OPA627/637
> How many should I buy for the D12?
> One if it's the 637 and two if it's the 627?


----------



## Gauss1777

Dang! Seems that I'd actually need a bigger amp after all to give my HD600 enough juice, those cans scream for more! I find my D12 to be enough for my M50s, but the HD600 doesn't sound any better while being 3 times the price.
   
  Thanks for the info.
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Both the OPA627 and 637 are single-channel opamps and two are required regardless of which you choose, however IMO, they sound kind of thin when used in the D10/D12 as they are operating with less than the recommended supply voltage.  .
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## detoxguy

Quick questions:
  I bought this amp/dac to use primarily as a stationary setup in my man-cave connected to my macbook pro. I wanted portable for the option of taking it to the back yard without having to run extension cords etc. Can I leave it plugged in most of the time? Right now I have it connected to the macbook via optical and have the USB plugged into the power adapter. Once the battery was fully charged I turned the charging switch to "off" I thought this would mean that with it still connected it would just run off of the power supply. I then was experimenting and noticed the next day that when I switched it to "on" that the red light engaged meaning it was charging a battery that had drained. If I want it to run off the power supply do I just leave the charging switch to "on"? I know it has overcharge protection but am not entirely sure which position will allow me to have it run as if it was a desktop amp. (I will be buying another dedicated amp later but the combination of features on this amp was just too good to pass up) I am using it to run RS2i phones and the sound is amazing. 
   
  Other than sending me the wrong colour (don't care really) they also sent some replacement headphone jack things but looking through this thread nobody has mentioned this, new development? 
   
  I have no idea about opamp rolling and want to learn more about it etc. but I know everyone (mostly) is sick of noobs like me begging for info....I'll figure it out later. Now if only I could pry these headphone off my head early enough to get a decent night's sleep....
   
  I guess I just wanna make sure I'm not gonna wreck my amp by keeping it plugged in but I'm pretty sure that somewhere I saw that it was ok to leave it plugged in and just need to know what setting for the charge circuit to leave it on....


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> Quick questions:
> I bought this amp/dac to use primarily as a stationary setup in my man-cave connected to my macbook pro. I wanted portable for the option of taking it to the back yard without having to run extension cords etc. Can I leave it plugged in most of the time? Right now I have it connected to the macbook via optical and have the USB plugged into the power adapter. Once the battery was fully charged I turned the charging switch to "off" I thought this would mean that with it still connected it would just run off of the power supply. I then was experimenting and noticed the next day that when I switched it to "on" that the red light engaged meaning it was charging a battery that had drained. If I want it to run off the power supply do I just leave the charging switch to "on"? I know it has overcharge protection but am not entirely sure which position will allow me to have it run as if it was a desktop amp. (I will be buying another dedicated amp later but the combination of features on this amp was just too good to pass up) I am using it to run RS2i phones and the sound is amazing.
> 
> Other than sending me the wrong colour (don't care really) they also sent some replacement headphone jack things but looking through this thread nobody has mentioned this, new development?
> ...


 
  I just leave mine plugged in. When charged it stops but I keep it topped off. 
   
  The headphone jacks are new. Over time, sometimes they can come loose if a cord is yanked or caught on something and they include these so a bad one can be replaced. I like the D12 in stock but HiFlight does offer a nice kit that can get you a little different sound. The op amps just pull out, making sure you slowly pull them out straight (I rock slightly as I pull). They do have to go in the correct way and that is explained in the inclosed instruction sheet or the one you can download from the iBasso web site for the D12 or any of their amps.


----------



## detoxguy

jamato8 said:


> I just leave mine plugged in. When charged it stops but I keep it topped off.
> 
> The headphone jacks are new. Over time, sometimes they can come loose if a cord is yanked or caught on something and they include these so a bad one can be replaced. I like the D12 in stock but HiFlight does offer a nice kit that can get you a little different sound. The op amps just pull out, making sure you slowly pull them out straight (I rock slightly as I pull). They do have to go in the correct way and that is explained in the inclosed instruction sheet or the one you can download from the iBasso web site for the D12 or any of their amps.





 

Thanks a bunch.

You leave it plugged in with the charge switch set to on? I did not get any documentation with my order and all I've seen on iBasso website is a very basic manual but will search for opamp rolling instructions. I think I may look into HiFlight's topkit but more as an opportunity to learn than being unhappy with stock sound. 

My understanding is that the DAC function on this unit is quite good and that should I buy a tube amp it will feed good clean sound to it. Correct?


----------



## HiFlight

The D12 DAC is excellent and would, IMO, do justice to any tube amp that you might add to your system.
  Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> Thanks a bunch.You leave it plugged in with the charge switch set to on? I did not get any documentation with my order and all I've seen on iBasso website is a very basic manual but will search for opamp rolling instructions. I think I may look into HiFlight's topkit but more as an opportunity to learn than being unhappy with stock sound. My understanding is that the DAC function on this unit is quite good and that should I buy a tube amp it will feed good clean sound to it. Correct?


----------



## Kremer930

I agree with Hiflights comments about the quality if the D12 dac. Feeding it a digital signal makes it come alive. 

The opamps take time to burn in too. Realized this when I swapped out some opamps and was reasonably happy with the combo which I settled on and then used the D12 just as a Dac for a few days in my study. When I next plugged in my triple fi 10's I was very pleasantly impressed.


----------



## detoxguy

Thanks for the input, I was worried I'd need to buy a more robust DAC to properly supply a tube amp down the road. 
   
  I'm still just a bit confused about the best way to keep the D12 plugged in. I've looked at several of the amp manuals and a few of them state to make sure to keep the switch in the off position to maintain battery life. When I do have the switch to off and the usb power adapter is plugged in am I discharging battery still? I'm a bit confused and concerned I'll damage the amp if I don't set it up right. I still can't get over all the little extra's ibasso threw in and am reading up on opamp rolling


----------



## CEE TEE

I just have to check in again here...finally got my D12 charging switch replaced by iBasso and then soldered on by a friend. That saved some time and shipping charges!  
   
I have to say that the following configuration is making me _*very happy*_:
   
*Sony X (no eq or effects) > ecbuyonline Sony LOD > iBasso D12 (Stock opamps/dummy buffers) > Grado HF2 (Jumbo Pads)*
   
  This is a *clean* set-up to my ears!!!  
   
  Oh, and it is _transportable_ (but with far fewer strange looks if I use MS1 with Flats)...


----------



## Kremer930

I got an adapter to step down my headphone plug to stereo mini and tried the D12 powering a pair of Hifiman HE6. I was actually surprised at how well it did. It certainly isn't going to win awards but was easily listenable at around 3 on the dial. Bass lacked punch but sound was clean.


----------



## Randius

I know zilch about circuitry but will like to know if D12 will benefit from black gate caps as with D10, that is if the mod can be applied.


----------



## jamato8

It has 5 electrolytics that could be changed out. They have used some decent caps and BG's are hard to get now, if not impossible for some unless you have some already. I like the D12 as it is stock. The dac section is excellent and I find the amp fine. It works good for sensitive phones or IEM's. You might be more of a change with different op amps.


----------



## Kremer930

Got my opamp kit today from Hiflight. Will be great to see how it changes the sound of my D12. I am currently running a combination of the optional iBasso opamps. They seem to suit my triple fi 10's a little better than the stock opamps. Hiflight's kit is set up in two combinations. With one suggested for rock and the other suited to classical. 

I will let you know my thoughts once I have had a good listen. 

Just in case people want another view.


----------



## Kremer930

Hiflight's kit came with some simple instructions that are especially designed for those that have not changed away from the original opamps within the D12.  It is then a simple case of removing the silver and red painted buffer and output opamps and then plugging in the same colours from Hiflight's kit.  The Hiflight kit has one of the edges of each chip painted rather than the entire chip as in the case of the original iBasso opamps.
   
  I am a bit of a novice when it comes to opamp rolling except that I have tried all of the combos of the standard supplied option opamps as well as the extra opamp kit which is sold by iBasso. I have even tried combinations that must be wrong as they result in no sound. Luckily I havent managed to destroy anything yet. It is normally that I have a chip that is meant for buffer rather than output, or vice versa.  
   
  My current listening is with the chips that Hiflight refers to as suited to rock and roll. I am listening to an Album titled Down The Way by Angus and Julia Stone. It is a ripper if you like clean sounding folk. Check it out.
   
  The first thought that comes to mind when listening to this combination of chips is thick. Thick as in a tube type sound but still sharp and without softened edges. The sound is also fuller from a sound stage too. I notice that male voices and upper bass may be a little more noticeable too. Kick drums have a little deeper sound to them with a heavier skin sound.  The bass could be why voices seem to have greater timbre and resonance to them also. Contrasting this strings of a guitar also sound more crisp. I am not sure if treble is more pronounced or if the entire amp just sounds more powerful. Probably the latter but I am not an expert by any means.
   
  What I can say though is that this is a great combination and makes the already great iBasso D12 that much better again. Certainly worth the $65 landed price. Many thanks to Hiflight.


----------



## Kremer930

Sorry to overload the thread but I just tried the pink classical opamp from Hiflight.  This chip maintains the strength and power of the music without sounding at all veiled but it de-emphasises the bass and evens up the overall frequency response.  For people that want to hear the music as it should sound then this is the choice for you.  The rock and roll set up has more bass and possibly more of everything below 2k hz but the classical is more detailed in the upper mids and beyond.  
   
  Swapping back and forward between my D12 powering the Triple fi 10's and then back to a Darkvoice 337 powering some Hifiman HE6 cans they are much more comparable sounds.  The TF10's still win on bass quantity but the HE6 win hands down on detail.  I am hoping that the new Schiit Lyr may even it up a little in the bass department.  But it is amazing that the D12 can push the TF10's that far to even compete against the HE6. 
   
  I need to keep in mind that the D12 is only being fed by an ipod 5G LOD whereas the HE6 is being fed from a Mac using Pure Music outputting 24/96 to a matrix DAC and then on to the Darkvoice amp.
   
  This makes the D12 even more amazing.


----------



## HiFlight

Thanks, guys, for the feedback on the Topkit opamps!   It is always helpful for me to get impressions from ears other than my own.  Sometimes my ears can be biased due to the musical genres that I like or dislike.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> My current listening is with the chips that Hiflight refers to as suited to rock and roll. I am listening to an Album titled Down The Way by Angus and Julia Stone. It is a ripper if you like clean sounding folk. Check it out.


 


   Angus and Julia Stone's "Mango Tree" is one of my regular test tracks, indeed good stuff and it sounds great on the D12.


----------



## Armaegis

I think all the possibilities for opamp rolling are one reason for me to stay away from the D12... I'd overload with options and never settle


----------



## Kremer930

I was always pretty happy with the D12 and especially so when feeding it an optical digital signal.  The trouble for me was that I had an old RA1 clone that  sounded more forward.  This in turn made the D12 sound veiled in comparison.  Hiflights topkit takes away that veil and to my ears makes it sound like I am running my triple fi's off a 100wpc amp.  It is so much thicker and a more powerful sound.  If you are a rocker or love bass then the rock and roll kit does all this but also kicks the mid bass up a tad too. But to my ears the classical opamps rule hands down.  You really should give it a try if you get the chance.


----------



## jamato8

I am going to be trying another optical cable. Not 1300 fibers, 13,000, yep, 13,000 fibers. I am not sure if there will be any change to sound but I did get a positive one from the 1300 but the 13,000 may be beyond the capability of 24/96. I need to try it on 24/192 or 48/384 :^).


----------



## Uchiya

Very Nice.


----------



## Kubernetes

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am going to be trying another optical cable. Not 1300 fibers, 13,000, yep, 13,000 fibers. I am not sure if there will be any change to sound but I did get a positive one from the 1300 but the 13,000 may be beyond the capability of 24/96. I need to try it on 24/192 or 48/384 :^).


 

 Um, not to be a downer, but what's the point of better digital cables?  With digital the data transmits or it does not.  There's no such thing as a cleaner or better signal--it either transmits perfectly or you'll hear jittery garbage.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





kubernetes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, got to call this one.  Incorrect on a couple of levels.  
   
  First, when the data doesn't arrive cleanly at exactly the right time, then it is difficult to reconstruct the clock, and THAT is jitter.  Also, a "1" electrically is still analog, and as such there are issues such as ringing, that can alter WHEN a signal is determined to be a one or a zero, and that also can create jitter.  And jitter doesn't create what I would call "garbage," it simply causes the music to become somewhat harder or strident sounding with a loss of ambient detail.  "Garbage" would normally means blasts of noise, or dropouts where there is a gap too big for CRC to correct.  Even an optical signal can have jitter, depending on the quality of the driver circuit and on internal reflections within the fibre that smear the lightwave in the time domain.
   
  That said, my POV is invest in equipment with high-quality clock re-generation or re-clocking instead of on the cables to move the data.  Fix the timing at the destination then jitter is not relevant.


----------



## Sorensiim

You guys suck. Really, I hate you. - My wallet told me to tell you that.
   
  I made it to page 14 of this thread before I ordered the D12 yesterday, now I just cant wait for it to get here! I'll be using it with my laptop via USB, my desktop computer via either optical or USB and I'll finally get a decent headphone out for my PS3 thanks to the optical input on the D12. I have a Cowon J3 for portable use and it drives my Atrio M5s with ease, but with the D12 I'll be able to bring full size cans too. 
   
  Crap... Now I need to get full size cans again. I hate this place. *Sigh* Any recomendations on a pair of closed cans (my co-workers don't like Deadmau5 and Rammstein as much as I do) with crisp, detailed sound - and nice bass too? Loved the detail and comfort from my K271mkIIs but they really had too little bass for my taste.


----------



## Saintkeat

if anyone out there has heard both the d12 and the pb1 please tell me the sound signature differences? i heard the d12 today and didn't like it out of an ipod classic with grado sr80s. my iems are on repair so thats all i had to listen with. it controlled the bass and the highs and seems to take away a significant amount of soundstage. I actually preferred listening with my sr80s without the amp. so if anyone has both please let me know if I'll like the pb1 toucan.


----------



## Kremer930

After reading your post, I thought that I would check out how the D12 with Highflight Topkit does with my K702's.  I cant say that there will be a direct correlation to the performance of your Grado's but from playing my 80gb classic through the D12 it sounds great.  I didn't notice any drop or compression of soundstage and the extra fullness of the sound and added detail were immediately noticeable when swapping from ipod headphone out to D12 via LOD.  Hope this helps.
  
  Quote: 





saintkeat said:


> if anyone out there has heard both the d12 and the pb1 please tell me the sound signature differences? i heard the d12 today and didn't like it out of an ipod classic with grado sr80s. my iems are on repair so thats all i had to listen with. it controlled the bass and the highs and seems to take away a significant amount of soundstage. I actually preferred listening with my sr80s without the amp. so if anyone has both please let me know if I'll like the pb1 toucan.


----------



## jamato8

I have found the D12 to be extremely clean sounding. By this I mean that it is transparent and to my ear, neutral. The dac section is one of the best iBasso has produced so the combination, for me, and using phones that work well with the 5 volts, the combination meets many needs. This is also with my Grado HF2.


----------



## mrspeakers

I have been using the D12 to drive my t50rps, which are low impedance, moderately low efficiency cans, and the combo has done surprisingly well using the stock amps/buffers.  Volume between 11-12 at high gain, with no indication of clipping, is usually more than adequate.


----------



## Sorensiim

Just got my D12 an hour ago - sound is nice but DAMN this thing picks up electronic interference like hell! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Any way to shield it better? D12-sized tin foil hats, maybe?
   
  Edit: I might be missing something, but I can't figure out which chips are the buffers and which are the opamps - What goes where if I want to try the included opamp rolling kit?


----------



## Kremer930

sorensiim said:


> Just got my D12 an hour ago - sound is nice but DAMN this thing picks up electronic interference like hell!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I had problems if I used my D12 strapped to my iPhone but otherwise I have not noticed any EMI. Not sure how and where you are using the D12 but could be worthwhile making sure that any of your cables are not acting as an antenna.


----------



## mrspeakers

I just use airplane mode when my iPhone is strapped to the D12.  But it likes to be at least 2-4' away from Blackberries.  Those things are RFI toasters.


----------



## Sorensiim

This is beyond odd: When I got home, there was ZERO interference, even with my cell phone lying on top of the D12. Must've been something at work that made it act up 
   
  Oh and a total noob guide to buffers and opamps would be much appreciated!


----------



## Kremer930

Hiflight would be a good person to check with.  He makes a great set of opamps suited for Rock and and a second set for classical.  I actually really like the classical set up for all genres.  It is very natural and to my set up at least is my clear favourite even against the optional iBasso opamp kit.


----------



## lcats

Quote: 





sorensiim said:


> This is beyond odd: When I got home, there was ZERO interference, even with my cell phone lying on top of the D12. Must've been something at work that made it act up


 

 I had the same thing happen to me at work when I first got the D12.  Then at home it was fine, and it has been fine ever since except for one or two episodes, at work, home or elsewhere. 
   
  If this happens to you again, try switching the D12 off then on again with everything connected, and also try the high gain setting, if you had it on the low one.  Once or twice I've had the D12 not grab a (digital) signal until it was switched off, then on again.  Also, at least with HiFlight's new classical opamp, I got distortion on the low gain setting, but not the high one.


----------



## Sorensiim

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Hiflight would be a good person to check with.  He makes a great set of opamps suited for Rock and and a second set for classical.  I actually really like the classical set up for all genres.  It is very natural and to my set up at least is my clear favourite even against the optional iBasso opamp kit.


 


  Thanks - I've read that a few times in this thread. What I meant was something more along the lines of "This chip goes in that hole" sort of instructions for trying out the optional opamps, no instructions were included with mine


----------



## Sorensiim

Quote:


lcats said:


> I had the same thing happen to me at work when I first got the D12.  Then at home it was fine, and it has been fine ever since except for one or two episodes, at work, home or elsewhere.
> 
> If this happens to you again, try switching the D12 off then on again with everything connected, and also try the high gain setting, if you had it on the low one.  Once or twice I've had the D12 not grab a (digital) signal until it was switched off, then on again.  Also, at least with HiFlight's new classical opamp, I got distortion on the low gain setting, but not the high one.


 


   
  Cool, I'll bring the D12 to work tomorrow and see how it behaves itself 

   

  Tried the D12 with my PS3 last night, via optical. Worked like a charm and I now have a proper headphone out for my PS3! The missus does *not* appreciate the screaming sound of a 545bhp Subaru Impreza trying to shave a few seconds off it's laptime on Laguna Seca. At least not while she's on the phone...


----------



## S7AN

Hi all,
  I got my D12 today, iBasso, has fast shipping, and I think it's awesome that they include all the accessories, while other companies hardly give you anything! 
   
  This is my first amp/dac but my impression of the D12 is that for it's form factor it's powerful, and has a pure sound to it, it doesn't seem to add or subtract anything, it just gives you what's there with some power behind it, I am digging it! 
   
  Question though, what are the op amps that come with it? I have never installed op amps is there a good resource for someone like me, to soak up some info?
   
  Secondly I am looking to get some new cans, right now I have been using some Sony V900HD, looking for a noticeable upgrade to use with the D12. I have been eying the Senn's HD598 s. opinions on these as a "noticeable" upgrade would be appreciated!
   
  Thanks so much


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

As i've got a macbook pro I'm guessing it would be beneficial for me to get the D12 as opposed to the D6 as i can make use of the optical thus freeing up USB ports or is there another difference between the two (sound?) that i'm missing


----------



## Armaegis

The D12 is more versatile, the D6 is more powerful (I think). Pick your pleasure/poison.


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

Thanks, I really am torn D6 or D12 which will be with me in time for my holiday or wait 3-4 weeks and get the arrow and invest in a separate DAC


----------



## Sorensiim

The D12 will let you play 24/96 files via optical from your MBP 
   
  Anyone try this amp with a pair of Sennheiser HD25-1 II?
   
  Edit: My HD25's are hear. Nice, crisp sound with the D12.


----------



## mrspeakers

The D12 has a lot of power for most applications.  Remember, a 3db increase in output is DOUBLING the power.  It'll drive my LCD-2 too loud for me to listen to before clipping (never felt I got close with them on my noggin), and that is a relatively low-efficiency can...


----------



## Sorensiim

I saw a couple of you guys had bought HiFlights opamp rolling kit for the D12... Any opamp recommendations for rock? Is there a review of the opamps that I missed somewhere?


----------



## Sorensiim

Sorry for spamming the thread, but I just emailed Ibasso about my RFI woes with the D12 and they suggested getting a pair of LME49721 opamps, as the default ones are quite sensitive - Have anyone tried these?
   
  Edit: Ibasso just replied - The LME49721 is the single opamp included in the kit that came with the D12. The damn thing still picks up the same amounts of interference with the single opamp.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





sorensiim said:


> Sorry for spamming the thread, but I just emailed Ibasso about my RFI woes with the D12 and they suggested getting a pair of LME49721 opamps, as the default ones are quite sensitive - Have anyone tried these?
> 
> Edit: Ibasso just replied - The LME49721 is the single opamp included in the kit that came with the D12. The damn thing still picks up the same amounts of interference with the single opamp.


 

 With my previous D10, changing the opamps virtually eliminated the problems you're describing.  It may be effort well spent to experiment with more opamps in your D12.


----------



## Sorensiim

Quote: 





wolfen68 said:


> With my previous D10, changing the opamps virtually eliminated the problems you're describing.  It may be effort well spent to experiment with more opamps in your D12.


 

  NIce to hear that! I'd love to hear anything anyone has to share about the sound from the different opamps


----------



## Gorthon

I am pretty sure that HiFlight has listed out the different op amps he has tried and described how they sound somewhere within this thread.


----------



## nv88

I received my topkit a few days ago.  My first impressions are in agreement with the others who have commented.  The topkit has 5 chips 2 "silver" buffers, 2 "red" opamps intended for Pop/Rock and 1 "pink" opamp intended for Jazz/Classical. 
   
  I listened briefly to the topkit red opamps with the dummy buffers included by iBasso with the D12. The reds had a punchy sound described around here as "fun."  This sound to me was very different from the stock opamps.  I did like the sound better than the stock opamps (with or without the stock buffers). 
   
  The single pink opamp with silver topkit buffers was closer to the stock sound, but with import differences.  The Jazz/Classical opamp seemed to have a much wider sound stage and an extended frequency range, especially the high frequencies.  It sounded neutral/natural to me.  There seemed to be more detail than the stock opamps.  The most noticeable thing to me was the wider sound stage.  I'll be listening to the classical opamp for awhile. 
   
  Thanks HiFlight!


----------



## Sorensiim

Just the sort of "review" I needed, thanks a ton!  

I love a punchy sound so I guess I'll be pm'ing Hiflight as soon as I finish typing this...


----------



## JIGF

Quick question.
   
  Is the volume knob made of metal?


----------



## stactum

Yes
  
  Quote: 





jigf said:


> Quick question.
> 
> Is the volume knob bade of metal?


----------



## JIGF

Quote: 





stactum said:


> Yes


 

 Thanks.
   
  Also.
   
  Has there been comparisons to the PD XM6?


----------



## JIGF

Wondering how this would compare to a desktop amp like the Audio GD NFB 12.


----------



## hoboy456

After I lost the bid to get a second hand HeadAmp DAC/AMP Pico, I give up to the devil and bought this. I paid it on sunday, based on HeadFi-ers experience here, how long does it take from China to Germany ? and What should I expect to happen with my Ultrasone Pro750 ? Do I must prepare my body for the things to come ?


----------



## sulvaat

Quote:


jigf said:


> Wondering how this would compare to a desktop amp like the Audio GD NFB 12.


 

 I have both the D12 and the NFB-12 and can tell you it's a fairly decent upgrade SQ wise. There is a noticeable bump in output power too, depending on your cans this will probably be the most noticeable at first. 
   


  Quote: 





hoboy456 said:


> After I lost the bid to get a second hand HeadAmp DAC/AMP Pico, I give up to the devil and bought this. I paid it on sunday, based on HeadFi-ers experience here, how long does it take from China to Germany ? and What should I expect to happen with my Ultrasone Pro750 ? Do I must prepare my body for the things to come ?


 


  Expect good things to come. I used to drive 750 Pro's with it and liked it more than my Asus Xonar ST soundcard. Bass was well tuned and hit all the right spots in my ears. Never needed to go past 12'clock on most sources to achieve good listening level.


----------



## JIGF

Quote: 





sulvaat said:


> I have both the D12 and the NFB-12 and can tell you it's a fairly decent upgrade SQ wise. There is a noticeable bump in output power too, depending on your cans this will probably be the most noticeable at first.


 

 Thanks! Not to clear which one you refer to as the better one.
   
  edit: But I will assume it is the NFB 12.


----------



## sulvaat

Sorry about that, yeah IMHO the NFB-12 does do a better job.


----------



## barleyguy

Quote: 





sulvaat said:


> Sorry about that, yeah IMHO the NFB-12 does do a better job.


 


  Have you compared just the DACs, through a common amp?  IMO the D10 DAC is one of my all time favorites, which is why I'm curious.  Does the DAC in the NFB-12 compare well to the the DAC in the D12?


----------



## sulvaat

If only the DACs; to my ears Both DACs (only the dac chip into a-gd C2.1) sound the same to me. I have tried for hours with many tracks to see if I could hear a difference between dual WM8741 and dual WM8740 chips and I just can't tell them apart beyond a shadow of a doubt. I would say the D12 compares quite well with the NFB-12 both as a DAC and as their intended DAC/Amp combo use.


----------



## hoboy456

Just got my tracking number this morning 7 am (GMT +2) and right now it's being processed in DHL Hong Kong, when can I expect the shipment to arrive ? I'm in Germany.
   
  EDIT : Just arrived 1 week after I ordered, damn... Hongkong to Germany
   
  My impression : Zune HD -> D12 -> Pro750
   
  The bass comes alive woaahhhhh, need to burn this amp in though I think because I just played it out of the box !
   
  EDIT 2 : 2 hours in listening, damnnnnn this is like night and day ! I'm totally impressed ! I guess this is 1 step for my audio equipment but a giant step for me into this audiophile world !


----------



## hoboy456

Gonna bump this while asking some questions. So I already tried it for a couple of days and it seems that I prefer how it sounds when amping my Zune HD rather than my laptop, it sounds a bit flabby and tiring while when I'm using it with my Zune, it sounds really tight and clean. Should I start rolling my op-amps ? This is my first time though, I hope I won't kill my precious possession


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





hoboy456 said:


> Gonna bump this while asking some questions. So I already tried it for a couple of days and it seems that I prefer how it sounds when amping my Zune HD rather than my laptop, it sounds a bit flabby and tiring while when I'm using it with my Zune, it sounds really tight and clean. Should I start rolling my op-amps ? This is my first time though, I hope I won't kill my precious possession


 
  Just make sure on the orientation of the opamp. There are directions on how to place them in correctly. Take your time and have fun. Odd that it would sound bad on your laptop. Can you adjust the output of the laptop? I can change the bits and sample rate on my mac from 16/44 to 24/96 and it sound better, even on 16/44 recorded music at the higher rate. Are you using the USB or optical?


----------



## hoboy456

I'm limited to USB, my laptop is dell XPS studio and there's no Optical plug. I've done some reading on the limitation of using USB to connect to the DAC, is there any way to bypass those limitation ? I can't change the setting pass 16/48.
   
  There's a firewire 1394 port on my laptop, will there be any difference if I use a usb to firewire converter ?


----------



## Armaegis

There's a lot of debate on usb being good or bad, or usb vs optical, etc etc. Honestly, don't read into it too much and let the folks with the golden ears fight it out. The only main issue with usb is if you're getting noise through the cable, and we're talking very loud audible ground loops, not "limits of human hearing" noise.
   
  If you really want to bypass the usb, you can use a usb-to-optical converter, but that's inserting another component in your audio stream, so it's something else to consider.
   
  I don't know anything about firewire/usb conversion, so I can't answer that.


----------



## jamato8

On the D12 your computer should recognize that it accepts USB 24/96 and I would change it to that as to my ears, it sounds better. With that done, I find that USB is very good, better than I have heard from USB before. This is a reference to using the D12 USB.


----------



## hoboy456

Shamefully, my laptop can't do that. I've seen some people with Macs able to do it without any problem but for people with Windows, they need somekind of converter or something. I guess, I need to be contend with this until I have the access to my desktop computer again in another 4 months.


----------



## Caesar56

Someone earlier mentioned that the D12 can drive the Senns 650 @ 300 ohm but it is the case that it simply cant. At least, to my ears. When i plug the 650 to the D12 amp and then change to the Ortofon Hd-Q7 amp, its like day and night difference. Even my sons, on cheap earbuds, listen the difference.


----------



## Armaegis

I've driven the 650 just fine from a D10 before, though granted the transients at high volume will strain it and cause a bit of clipping if turned up high. I wonder if maybe it's more the sonic differences attributed to the HD-Q7 rather than power? The gain on the ortofon isn't too high either (though it does have more power), but it's sonic character is quite bright and livens up the Sennheiser sound quite a bit, taking away that so called veil.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> On the D12 your computer should recognize that it accepts USB 24/96 and I would change it to that as to my ears, it sounds better. With that done, I find that USB is very good, better than I have heard from USB before. This is a reference to using the D12 USB.


 
   
  Actually, the USB is limited to 16 bits at 48K, that's the limit of the 2906b USB chip.  I know you can get TOSLINK in at 96, and I *think* but have not verified that the Coax input supports this.  iBasso's website is pretty minimal, but based on the use of the CS8416 chip it looks like they can handle 24/96 on the other inputs and maintain that resolution through the Wolfson chips.  
   
  Interestingly, the USB input uses Adaptive mode, vs. Asynchronous.  Same as the Burson, though I think the Burson put in a very high-end 10pps jitter clock, and also galvanic isolation.  It'd be really great is iBasso would publish a bit more data for geeks curious about how these little gems work their magic...


----------



## mrspeakers

The D12 can drive my 650's louder than I want to hear them.  Some just may prefer the Ortofon sound.  To me the 650 is plenty bright and not at all veiled, but I have a recent build and the sound is purportedly different from older 650s.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> Actually, the USB is limited to 16 bits at 48K, that's the limit of the 2906b USB chip.  I know you can get TOSLINK in at 96, and I *think* but have not verified that the Coax input supports this.  iBasso's website is pretty minimal, but based on the use of the CS8416 chip it looks like they can handle 24/96 on the other inputs and maintain that resolution through the Wolfson chips.


 
  You are right. I guess my mind was on the D6, which does do 24/96 on the USB. The new DB-2 balanced dac that has just been released also can do 24/96 on the USB. 
   
  I do find the USB on the D12 very clean though and a step up from previous.


----------



## mrspeakers

I like the USB too.  The adaptive seems to work very well and addresses complaints around jitter...  I'd like to hear a D6.  Since I don't use the TOS and Coax inputs, it probably is a better fit for my orthos.


----------



## Caesar56

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I've driven the 650 just fine from a D10 before, though granted the transients at high volume will strain it and cause a bit of clipping if turned up high. I wonder if maybe it's more the sonic differences attributed to the HD-Q7 rather than power? The gain on the ortofon isn't too high either (though it does have more power), but it's sonic character is quite bright and livens up the Sennheiser sound quite a bit, taking away that so called veil.


 


  Well actually this might be what's happening, Ive never had a chance to listen to the 650's so lively and clear, when i crank up the volume a little bit i can really feel the headphones dancing. But i cannot stop feeling that the d12 is struggling because it sounds darker and the sound gets really thick. Volume wise i think it delivers enough volume but not the sound quality i was expecting.
  The Hd-Q7 is thought to be a low power unit but when i connected the 650's to it i got QUITE surprised. One has to hear it to understand.
  OFC one has a psu while the other is battery powered so it might be an unfair comparison.


----------



## Armaegis

I reviewed the HD-Q7 a little while back. It has two inputs, one of which (the 1/8") is much more responsive to input levels. From this one, feeding it a loud signal (an amped one) can give you a very high output level. The RCA inputs seem to trim all volume adjustments down. I suspect that this one was meant for line levels and perhaps has some sort of built in limiter or different load rating, but no specs were available so I can't say for certain (and I didn't think to try measuring when I had the unit).
   
  The HD-Q7 really is a lively little unit, and I would say it falls more into the "love it or hate it" camp due to its inherent sonic characteristics. As I tend to prefer darker tones myself (and started spending all my money on DIY), I eventually sent the unit back. I loved the design and form factor though.


----------



## gustav29

Has anyone used this with the K701s or K702s?  I'm looking to see if this has enough power to drive the AKGs.  I like the fact this iBasso has an optical in.
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Za'afiel

Quote: 





gustav29 said:


> Has anyone used this with the K701s or K702s?  I'm looking to see if this has enough power to drive the AKGs.  I like the fact this iBasso has an optical in.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 


  I have. As an amplifier only being driven from the line out of an iPod Classic, it struggles even after 12:00. As an amplifier+DAC though, things get better, but only by a little. It gets loud enough for me at 12:00 and can go up to 3:00 comfortably, but not at 4:00 because past that and it clips really badly. That's with a couple hundred hours on the K701s, which I think is enough.


----------



## ZoaKaizer

i have a question...
   
   
  I connected my Ibasso d12 to my laptop and plug my headphone to Aux In/out port, but then i cannot use the volume controller on my ibasso. i can only use the volume control from my itunes/players in my laptop.  the maximum volume is quite low..
   
   
  And if I connect headphone to the "Phone" port on my ibasso d12, i can use the volume control on my ibasso D12, so i just leave my itunes at max volume and use the D12's volume controller. The volume in this one is much louder, i can set my ibasso colume controller at 12 o'clock position for loud enough comfortable volume.
   
   
  So, what is the diffrent between "Aux In/Out" port and "Phone" port. will there be any difference in sound quality between this port ? so far i cant compare because the "Aux In/Out" port have small volume.
   
  I may consider to buy fiio E9 to re amp the "Aux In/Out" port
   
   
  My headphone is AKG K702


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





zoakaizer said:


> i have a question...
> 
> 
> I connected my Ibasso d12 to my laptop and plug my headphone to Aux In/out port, but then i cannot use the volume controller on my ibasso. i can only use the volume control from my itunes/players in my laptop.  the maximum volume is quite low..
> ...


 

 The Aux In/Out is meant to be an output for sending a decoded digital signal to another amp (or other device) or as an input for such devices as a DAP, CD player, etc.  It is not meant as a headphone output, as  there is no volume control.  It outputs a line-level signal of about 2v max, much less than the headphone output.


----------



## ZoaKaizer

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> The Aux In/Out is meant to be an output for sending a decoded digital signal to another amp (or other device) or as an input for such devices as a DAP, CD player, etc.  It is not meant as a headphone output, as  there is no volume control.  It outputs a line-level signal of about 2v max, much less than the headphone output.


 

 i see...
  
  thank you for explaining..
   
   
  is there should be any difference in sound quality if i use the Aux In/Out to connect the ibasso D12 to a desktop amp compared to just using the "phone" port ?


----------



## HiFlight

zoakaizer said:


> i see...
> 
> thank you for explaining..
> 
> ...




Using the Aux out is the better way to pass a signal to a desktop amp as it will be unaffected by the D12 amp section.
That is the reason for having an Aux output.


----------



## detoxguy

I use my D12 primarily as a standalone DAC and connect my LD1+ using the aux in/out port and the sound is amazing. The D12 is a surprisingly good DAC and the benefit is I can simply unplug it and take it to the hammock in the backyard and use it there. 
  
  Quote: 





zoakaizer said:


> i see...
> 
> thank you for explaining..
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

The D12 with dual Wolfson dacs and the DB-2 both do an excellent job. I find them to be open and detailed and belie their size to performance.


----------



## raymondu999

How does the D12 stack against the older D10? Any comparative reviews? I love using my D10 right now, and wondering if it was worth an upgrade to the D12. Cheers!


----------



## HiFlight

I look at the D12 as more of an evolution of the excellent D10 rather than as a replacement.   It is certainly easier to gain access to the inside for opamp rolling and having opamp sockets for both dual and single channel opamps is a step forward for those who like to experiment with different opamps.  
   
  The dual DAC's is also a step forward, but whether one can actually hear audible differences is something else.   Both D10 and  D12 amplifier sections have a superb SQ given the appropriate choice of opamps.   Opamp choices on both are somewhat limited by the 5v power supply.    
   
  With my selection of headphones for portable use, I am very pleased with the performance of both units.  That said, however, since I frequently use my amps for opamp testing, the ease rolling opamps in the D12 is a very significant consideration for me. 
  Quote: 





raymondu999 said:


> How does the D12 stack against the older D10? Any comparative reviews? I love using my D10 right now, and wondering if it was worth an upgrade to the D12. Cheers!


----------



## raymondu999

So not really *much* difference in audio but more in terms of op-amp rolling practicality? I'm not much of an op-amp roller, I've fried my share of hard disk drives in the past and so I'm rather scared of that.


----------



## zn7726

Quote: 





raymondu999 said:


> So not really *much* difference in audio but more in terms of op-amp rolling practicality? I'm not much of an op-amp roller, I've fried my share of hard disk drives in the past and so I'm rather scared of that.


 


  If you don't need any digital inputs other than USB to use the DAC, i think D6 is a better choice, with a more powerful AMP, 12v battery and $10 saving.
   
  I'm interested to know if the default SQ of D6 is better than D12 (with default op-amp of course) and, maybe D4?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





zn7726 said:


> If you don't need any digital inputs other than USB to use the DAC, i think D6 is a better choice, with a more powerful AMP, 12v battery and $10 saving.
> 
> I'm interested to know if the default SQ of D6 is better than D12 (with default op-amp of course) and, maybe D4?


 

 I think that regarding the SQ of the D6 vs D12, it likely becomes a matter of personal preferences, as both are superb performers.  The D6 will have slightly more headroom given the higher supply voltage.


----------



## mrarroyo

Hi Ron, would love to listen to the D12 someday. As you know I have the original Toucan and Boomslang, is the D12 in SE an improvement? Thanks.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Hi Ron, would love to listen to the D12 someday. As you know I have the original Toucan and Boomslang, is the D12 in SE an improvement? Thanks.


 

 Miguel...
  I am a bit confused, as the D12 is only SE.  Did you mean the PB1 in SE vs balanced?  IMO, the original balanced Toucan and Boomslang is an improvement over the D12, but given phones that are within the capability of the D12 to drive effectively, the D12 sounds better than the using the SE output of the PB1/DB1.


----------



## wolfen68

IMO, the D12 is significantly better than the PB-1 in single ended.


----------



## sashaw

Just received 2 opa637bp today. Changed from old combination (ada4841-2 + ad8532) to opa637bp + stock buffer. First impression is the sound become so warm and a larger sound stage, and I also need to turn the volume up to 11 to 12 clock for my RE0, which was usually around 9 to 10. The sound is great for female vocal. I can easily hear some background noise. At the moment I am testing out the battery time. It is 4 hours from fully charged, still going.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





sashaw said:


> Just received 2 opa637bp today. Changed from old combination (ada4841-2 + ad8532) to opa637bp + stock buffer. First impression is the sound become so warm and a larger sound stage, and I also need to turn the volume up to 11 to 12 clock for my RE0, which was usually around 9 to 10. The sound is great for female vocal. I can easily hear some background noise. At the moment I am testing out the battery time. It is 4 hours from fully charged, still going.


 

 There are a couple of caveats that you should consider when using the OPA637 in the D12;  Supply voltage is specified as +/- 4.5 to 18v.  This equates to a minimum single-ended supply voltage of 9-36vdc.  While the 637 may or may not operate at the D12 supply voltage of 4.2v, it is doubtful that it will meet published specifications as shown in the datasheet.   Also, the OPA637 is stable only at gains above 5, so you might avoid the use of low gain on your D12 with the 637's installed. 
   
  Instability at gains below 5 can result in oscillation which may or may not be audible.  Some indications of oscillation above the audio frequencies are short battery run time and heat.  The opamps should not be noticeably warm or hot to the touch.  The D12 case for sure should not be warm.


----------



## sashaw

I have had it running for about 20 hours with high gain. I listen to it every once a while. So far, haven't notice any heating or sound problem.


----------



## sashaw

report back, after 24 hours, now the sound is terrible. Huge background noise. Sound becomes so muddy and veiled. Guess this is a sign that the opamps don't have enough power flow into them.


----------



## Kremer930

After buying my JH16 I decided to try the jazz opamp combo from the HiFlight kit.  Wow.  Talk about added detail.  The bass is still there too.  I am not sure what opamps they are but they certainly sound great.


----------



## Bronco628

I am a new owner of a HiFlight kit, He selected a set of L/R opamps for my UM3X, and a dual channel (modified) for my 325is.  Makes for a nice sound on both!


----------



## Chris J

Just received a D12 yesterday afternoon.............I ordered it Saturday! remarkably fast delivery, I live just outside of Toronto Canada.
  Sorry to butt in here, just throwing in my 2 cents...........I'm using AKG Q701's & this amp really can't drive 'em properly.
  I'm using the line out into a Matrix M Stage which I think is a nice combo


----------



## Armaegis

Do you feel you want more gain or is it something else?
   
  I have a D10 and it didn't really push them loudly enough for me to achieve decent headroom.


----------



## Kremer930

K701's require a lot of current in my opinion so even if they are low impedance they still need good levels of power. Perhaps it is an excuse to try a PB2!


----------



## Chris J

Since the Q701's have an impedance of 60 ohms I would guess that the D12 is running out of current.
  A higher authority (Top Flight) advised me to try using LMH6643 from the Op Amp rolling kit, this Op Amp can output up to 75 milliAmps.
  In addition it has a very low output impedance.
  I'll try the LMH6643 Op Amps out when I get some free time and report back..............


----------



## Chris J

OK,
I pulled all the op amps out and replaced the buffers with dummy buffers.
First I tried using the LMH6643 in the centre L/R . Waddaya know, D12 has no problem driving my Q701s, good tight punchy bass with an open middle and treble.
Then I replaced the LMH6643 with an AD8532, a bit noisier which was fixed by reducing gain to +3 dB and turning the volume up a bit. So far I'm still trying to figure what the difference is, but the AD8532 does something to the midrange.
My theory is that the Q701s need a lot of current (both the op amps I swapped in can supply a fair amount of current into the load).
More later.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





chris j said:


> OK,
> I pulled all the op amps out and replaced the buffers with dummy buffers.
> First I tried using the LMH6643 in the centre L/R . Waddaya know, D12 has no problem driving my Q701s, good tight punchy bass with an open middle and treble.
> Then I replaced the LMH6643 with an AD8532, a bit noisier which was fixed by reducing gain to +3 dB and turning the volume up a bit. So far I'm still trying to figure what the difference is, but the AD8532 does something to the midrange.
> ...


 


  Chris...
   
  If you need still more output current from your D12, you might also try the AD8397 in L/R.   As it has built-in buffers, it is best to use it with the bypass (dummy) buffers.   IMO, it does a better job in the L/R position than the AD8532 considering overall tonal balance.   SQ is similar to that of the LMH6643 but with more muscle.


----------



## Chris J

Hi Topflight,
I prefer the LMH6643 sound, but what I am really looking for is more clarity and transparency.
I very rarely turn the volume past 12 o'clock.
regards, Chris


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hi Topflight,
> I prefer the LMH6643 sound, but what I am really looking for is more clarity and transparency.
> I very rarely turn the volume past 12 o'clock.
> regards, Chris


 
   
  LT1678 will do that.  Quite detailed and transparent.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> LT1678 will do that.  Quite detailed and transparent.


 


 Unfortunately they don't source/sink a lot of current, can you recommend a good buffer? Any idea what buffer is shipped with the D12?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Unfortunately they don't source/sink a lot of current, can you recommend a good buffer? Any idea what buffer is shipped with the D12?


 


   
  If you seldom go above the 12:00 position with your volume control, I think the LT1678 would still work well with bypassed buffers and give you the SQ that you are looking for.  I can tell very little difference between it and other L/R opamps with buffers as far as driving ability.  I really like the sound of the LT1678 and often use it as the optional opamp for several Topkits.   You might try it with the LMH6643 as buffers.   Should be a very good pairing.


----------



## markkr

What would you guys recommend as a good starting point configuration for the following headphones
   
  Westone 3, Grado, ER4S
   
  TIA


----------



## Bronco628

Quote: 





markkr said:


> What would you guys recommend as a good starting point configuration for the following headphones
> 
> Westone 3, Grado, ER4S
> 
> TIA


 
  This was what I got from my HiFlight Topkit For my Grado 325is'.  I can put up the ones for my um3x if you like.  I just have to open my D12 up.
  .


----------



## SurfWax

For the D12 and D4, do you bypass the DAC if you use a LOD from an iPhone?


----------



## Armaegis

Using the LOD from the iphone uses the phone's DAC, which then passes the analog signal into the D4/D12 for amplification. The dac in the D4/D12 is not used; you can only use it via usb/optical/coax.


----------



## SurfWax

Oh I didn't know that, thank you. I always thought the LOD also bypassed the internal DAC.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





surfwax said:


> Oh I didn't know that, thank you. I always thought the LOD also bypassed the internal DAC.


 

 I've tried using the LOD on my iPod to D12 Aux In............I wasn't too impressed, I thought the bass was too loose.
  I normally use a Wadia 170i with my iPod, I use the digital output on the Wadia to the D12 spdif.
  Unfrotunately I can't walk down the street with it, but it's nice for sitting outside on my deck. LOL


----------



## Kremer930

I agree that bypassing the iPod DAC is a significant improvement in sound quality. I have tried feeding the D12 with optical and USB from my Mac and was quite impressed with the sound but for some reason my most 'ohh yeah' moment has been when using the Algorythm solo. This then feeds the d12 an anologue signal but it has more top end air and detail than I have previously heard from the d12. 

 For example I used to think that iems couldn't get close to the imaging of a good set of cans but since adding the CLAS that gap has closed significantly. And all this with just using cheap, but nice quality fiio interconnects. My Piccolino connects are due in a week. 

The D12 sounds really well balanced, fast and tight in it's current set up with the Hiflight opamp kit. 

How do other users find the D12 in sound quality compared to say a RSA 71b or Alo RX mk2?


----------



## markkr

In the opinion of the people in this thread, is the build quality in the D12 good enough to last several years? or is this a short term piece of electronics?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





markkr said:


> In the opinion of the people in this thread, is the build quality in the D12 good enough to last several years? or is this a short term piece of electronics?


 


 Hard to say, the D12 hasn't been out very long, but it's an excellent question!
  I haven't seen any reliability issues on any D10 threads.
  Perhaps a few people can comment on their long term experience with iBasso stuff in general??


----------



## Kremer930

I personally think that you would have to mistreat the ibasso for it to last less than at least 5 years. It is well built. Even the batteries could be unplugged and replaced. I basso gets too marks in my opinion.


----------



## Packgrog

Anyone know how the D12 measures up against some dedicated units, such as the Yulong D100 or the Matrix Mini-i?
   
  I'm still using my old iBasso D1 (with TopKit from HiFlight, which provides marvelous sound), which needs to be serviced (the battery won't charge), but I can't bear the thought of having to wait several weeks to get it back after shipping it back to China, and I don't know whether it would be a better investment to get the D12 or a reasonably priced desktop DAC/amp in the meantime.  I use them with the Denon AH-D2000.  Thoughts?


----------



## Bronco628

Has anyone had experiences with unique melody and opamps.  I am ordering up a Merlin from UM Global.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





packgrog said:


> Anyone know how the D12 measures up against some dedicated units, such as the Yulong D100 or the Matrix Mini-i?
> 
> I'm still using my old iBasso D1 (with TopKit from HiFlight, which provides marvelous sound), which needs to be serviced (the battery won't charge), but I can't bear the thought of having to wait several weeks to get it back after shipping it back to China, and I don't know whether it would be a better investment to get the D12 or a reasonably priced desktop DAC/amp in the meantime.  I use them with the Denon AH-D2000.  Thoughts?


 

 Hey there,
  I think you should be OK, D12 is rated at 110 milliWatts at 32 ohms.
  The AH-D2000 is a 25 ohm headphones, sensitivity is 106 dB/milliWatt, they sound like very efficient headphones, so you should be able to get more than enough volume.
  The D12 is a very good sounding piece of kit for the money so you should be OK!
  The Yulong and Matrix are obviously not portable units so it might be a bit unfair to compare them to the iBasso D12.


----------



## Il Mostro

Quote: 





markkr said:


> In the opinion of the people in this thread, is the build quality in the D12 good enough to last several years? or is this a short term piece of electronics?


 
   
  I have owned a D10 for two and a half years and, since I am the second owner, it has been humming along longer than that.   No performance issues -- build quality is solid IMO. At the very minimum, you get what you pay for with iBasso.  I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## markkr

Thanks guys, do you think there will be an appreciable difference between using the D12's optical vs the D6's USB input from my Macbook? (my primary source). Keeping in mind the primary phone is Westone 3's with ocasional Grado usage.


----------



## keanex

Beautiful amp/DAC. I would love to try this.


----------



## Chris J

markkr said:


> Thanks guys, do you think there will be an appreciable difference between using the D12's optical vs the D6's USB input from my Macbook? (my primary source). Keeping in mind the primary phone is Westone 3's with ocasional Grado usage.



I would think that the D6 would do a better job of driving the Grados as it puts out twice as much voltage and 6 times as much power into 32 ohms as the D12 so you would get substantially more headroom with the D6 amp.
As for USB vs. optical, I'm sure you can find all kinds of opinions in these forums.
An interesting combination might be the D12 as a DAC driving the D6 as an amp.


----------



## markkr

Thanks
  
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> I would think that the D6 would do a better job of driving the Grados as it puts out twice as much voltage and 6 times as much power into 32 ohms as the D12 so you would get substantially more headroom with the D6 amp.
> As for USB vs. optical, I'm sure you can find all kinds of opinions in these forums.
> An interesting combination might be the D12 as a DAC driving the D6 as an amp.


----------



## Armaegis

Grados are fairly sensitive, you don't really need all that headroom... though I think the D6 and D12 have the same gain settings anyways. I suppose clipping would be more likely on the D12 if you tend to max your volume all the time on high gain, though I've been using my D10 without issue. 
   
  I would personally lean towards the D12 to use the optical. Sound quality debate aside, I find the usb connection sometimes gives me noise/groundhum from the computer power supply.


----------



## Bronco628

I use optical from my MBP to my d12 with dummy buffers and hiflight topkit opamps and after the 1 o'clock position it starts becoming to loud to listen to comfortably.  Sounds great on my 325is.


----------



## sashaw

Trying out opa2228 with AD8532 as buffer. I reckon everybody should try it. Warm and nice.
   
  Has anyone tried to replace the battery with higher voltage ones? Really limited selection on low voltage opamps


----------



## Chris J

This is a reply sashaw's question:
  "Has anyone tried to replace the battery with higher voltage ones?"
   
  WARNING!
  Replacing the battery with a higher voltage battery may damage the ICs in the DAC and probably in the Amp too.
  DO NOT do this!
  If you want more voltage then use an iBasso P4 or equivalent higher voltage portable headphone amp.


----------



## markkr

I have spent weeks now debating on D12 vs D6. The primary use is my Macbook at work with Westone W3's... and occasional Grado or Ety ER4S.
   
  Then toss in all the other options: XM6, UHA6S, DACport... my head is spinning! opamps, usb vs optical, usb powered, battery powered, China, US, Canada, AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


----------



## Armaegis

The solution is simple... FiiO D3 + iBasso P4


----------



## markkr

LOL thanks...
   
  I have considered the P4 + D4 combo, but its outside of what I'd like to spend. ($500)
  
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> The solution is simple... FiiO D3 + iBasso P4


----------



## Armaegis

The D3 is $30. Fiio, not iBasso.


----------



## Kremer930

I am thinking of selling my D12.  It is in 9.5/10 condition with some very subtle smudge type marks.  These are very minor and may well have been there since new.  I also have the ibasso optional opamp kit plus the awesome Hiflight opamp kit.  Looking for $240 USD plus shipping if anyone is interested.  I am pretty sure that I still have all of the original packaging and interconnects and will also throw in a fiio low pro dock to mini connector.


----------



## Chronos

I'm also looking in to this amp.  I own a pair of Denon AH-D7000's.  I used to run the iBasso D2 Viper (but they need repair) with them but now I realized I just want a DAC + AMP combo for less than $350 that is a great match for the D7000's.  It doesn't matter if its portable or not.  I really liked the D2's with my D7000's and thought it was a amazing over no-amp and FiiO E5, but I don't have any amps to compare it to.
   
  Suggestions?


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  I was going to get a fiio E10, since seems a very nice dac/amp for the price, then in stopped here...
   
  Has anyone tested D12 with Ultrasone Edition 8? How's the synergy?
   
  Just for curiosity has any1 been mad to test D12 with LCD2?
   
  The advantage of using D12 with i20 using optical, or USB for my laptop, or as a portable amp is too tempting...
   
  Also... Anyone knows the specs and price of Qusp's LOD ?
   
  Thanks guys!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I am thinking of selling my D12.  It is in 9.5/10 condition with some very subtle smudge type marks.  These are very minor and may well have been there since new.  I also have the ibasso optional opamp kit plus the awesome Hiflight opamp kit.  Looking for $240 USD plus shipping if anyone is interested.  I am pretty sure that I still have all of the original packaging and interconnects and will also throw in a fiio low pro dock to mini connector.


 


  Why are you selling it? Gathering info in pro/cons for many amps


----------



## Kremer930

The only reason why I am considering selling my D12 is that I have bought an ALO Rx mk2 to match the size and form of my Algorythm Solo.  The D12 is a ripper amp and combined with the ability to roll opamps, accept pure digital sources from computer or audio gear etc, I feel that it is too good to not be used.  I have owned it for a year and for most of the time it was perfect but combined with the ipod classic and the CLAS it just becomes quite a handful of a portable rig.  I think people look at me on the bus and think that I am going to blow something up.  The Alo/CLAS is not a lot smaller but it brings it closer to being somewhat normal.


----------



## Chronos

So anyone run this with Denon AH-d7000's?  how does this amp compare to e7/e9 when both run the same DAC?  What is the difference between this and D6?  Which would you recommend for D7000's?


----------



## Chris J

kremer930 said:


> The only reason why I am considering selling my D12 is that I have bought an ALO Rx mk2 to match the size and form of my Algorythm Solo.  The D12 is a ripper amp and combined with the ability to roll opamps, accept pure digital sources from computer or audio gear etc, I feel that it is too good to not be used.  I have owned it for a year and for most of the time it was perfect but combined with the ipod classic and the CLAS it just becomes quite a handful of a portable rig.  I think people look at me on the bus and think that I am going to blow something up.  The Alo/CLAS is not a lot smaller but it brings it closer to being somewhat normal.





Kremer,
And what does the bomb disposal squad think of you? LOL


----------



## Kremer930

Even my work colleagues think that I am odd spending so much on something that is so big. 

All I can say is that the explosions from stuff like Pink Floyds Delicate sounds of thunder sounds awesome through it. It really is da bomb!


----------



## civilaudio

I have bought the D12 and have been tracking this thread for a few weeks. Great!
   
  I recalled HiFlight mentioned about OPA637BP but has anyone used the OPA627BP?
   
  Is the 627 supposed to be more stable and a better match with D12?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> I have bought the D12 and have been tracking this thread for a few weeks. Great!
> 
> I recalled HiFlight mentioned about OPA637BP but has anyone used the OPA627BP?
> 
> Is the 627 supposed to be more stable and a better match with D12?


 

 While the OPA627 is stable at unity gain, it still specs outside of the supply voltage supplied by the D12.  It cannot meet design specifications at the 4.7 volts provided by the D12 battery pack.  Using a single-sided voltage source such as the D12, the minimum  recommended voltage is 9v. (+/-4.5) There are much better D12 choices, IMO.


----------



## Armaegis

The OPA627 is stable at unity gain, the 637 needs 5x under most circumstances. I believe the D12 only goes up to 3x on high gain.


----------



## Bronco628

I am using OPA1611A L/R with dummy buffers, the sound is terrific and it can easily get too loud past the 2 o'clock position


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> The OPA627 is stable at unity gain, the 637 needs 5x under most circumstances. I believe the D12 only goes up to 3x on high gain.


 


  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> While the OPA627 is stable at unity gain, it still specs outside of the supply voltage supplied by the D12.  It cannot meet design specifications at the 4.7 volts provided by the D12 battery pack.  Using a single-sided voltage source such as the D12, the minimum  recommended voltage is 9v. (+/-4.5) There are much better D12 choices, IMO.


 

  
  thanks, so basically the 627/637 is not the option for D12 just for its technical spec. I actually love the stock of D12 now, but reading this thread make me wondering if it can be better...


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> thanks, so basically the 627/637 is not the option for D12 just for its technical spec. I actually love the stock of D12 now, but reading this thread make me wondering if it can be better...


 

 The D12 is fantastic "as is" and I always found it to have a nice musical balanced sound.  The only thing I gained by rolling opamps is a minor amount of detail and top end.


----------



## giveit2menow

would love to try rolling amps but when i went to take the unit apart i found ibasso had sent me a unit with a threaded screw.....the screw stood out as it also had some red rust looking stuff around the edge..not sure what that is....but clearly somethign happened with that screw....cant believe they sent it out like that....
   
  what are the options for removing a threaded screw?
 Btw i know it should come apart if only one screw is left but its on the faceplate and the screw holding the volume button on is also just spinning and not turning. Looks threaded too but not as bad as the other one.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


giveit2menow said:


> would love to try rolling amps but when i went to take the unit apart i found ibasso had sent me a unit with a threaded screw.....the screw stood out as it also had some red rust looking stuff around the edge..not sure what that is....but clearly somethign happened with that screw....cant believe they sent it out like that....
> 
> what are the options for removing a threaded screw?Btw i know it should come apart if only one screw is left but its on the faceplate and the screw holding the volume button on is also just spinning and not turning. Looks threaded too but not as bad as the other one.


 
  1. I would contact iBasso as this is not how they normally do things. 
  2. Do you have any images?


----------



## Kremer930

I agree with Jamato.  Ibasso's service has always been great.  I am confident that they will assist.  
   
  Otherwise there are tools called 'easy outs' that are like a reverse thread screw which drills into the stripped screw and should unscrew it.  There shouldnt be any torque required unless the screw is rusted but that is very unlikely as it is an alloy case.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





giveit2menow said:


> would love to try rolling amps but when i went to take the unit apart i found ibasso had sent me a unit with a threaded screw.....the screw stood out as it also had some red rust looking stuff around the edge..not sure what that is....but clearly somethign happened with that screw....cant believe they sent it out like that....
> 
> what are the options for removing a threaded screw?Btw i know it should come apart if only one screw is left but its on the faceplate and the screw holding the volume button on is also just spinning and not turning. Looks threaded too but not as bad as the other one.


 


  Try using a Torx 6 bit rather than the tool that came with your D12. (tool store or hardware) The Torx should give you purchase on the screw even if it is somewhat deformed.  It is doubtful that the screw threads are stripped, as they are steel and much harder than the aluminum case.  You do not need to remove the volume knob to roll opamps, only the top two front faceplate screws and the rear 2 top screws.


----------



## giveit2menow

you can see top left that screw is not the same as the others. Something clearly was amiss there when they sent it out. Look at the red around it. I tried a t6 and it just goes round. I will try i T8 when i get one. As its the top i cant get to the rollamps.


----------



## giveit2menow

removed.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





giveit2menow said:


> you can see top left that screw is not the same as the others. Something clearly was amiss there when they sent it out. Look at the red around it. I tried a t6 and it just goes round. I will try i T8 when i get one. As its the top i cant get to the rollamps.


 

 I noticed that your D12 have all 4 screws all having some type of corrosion... which is quite strange. Are you using it outside a lot ?. How long have you got this D12?
   
  I got my D12 and opened and closed dozen times, rolling opamps and have no problem with screws and stock tool.
   
  The issues of opamps rolling is that when you have so much choices, it is hard to settle....


----------



## giveit2menow

yes it has been used outside. I have had it some time but this was the first time i decided to try rolling amps as i just find the top end a might sharp. I dont see how having it outside could have led to the threading issue. Ibasso have replied now.


----------



## Armaegis

Did it ever get wet or is it very humid in your region?


----------



## jamato8

I was recently on Pohnpei, which is part of Micronesia and is very humid, for over a year. No amp I have that was out, did not have some rust on the steel screws, from very expensive and on down.


----------



## civilaudio

Having Hiflight topkits and some opamps from avnet, I tried several combinations (I tried to copy some opamp that reported ti work well at D10 thread) and found they worked very well with D12 in addition to topkits. (I put them into class A biased adapter)
  - OPA2228P and stock buffers.
  - OPA2350PA and topkit buffer..
  Has any tried these? what is your opinion?, I have tested with some vocal, rock and contry.


----------



## civilaudio

After rolling with dozen of combinations, I turned back to earlier suggestion of Hiflight combination on the topkit (jazz/classical opamp (2209) and dummy buffer)...and WOW..
   
  IMO, this is the best combination, you guys should try it... the D12 with that combination is almost as clean as 8599 without leaning on high. It is more balance but slightly less mellow compared with OPA1611/1612.
   
  I don't know why ibasso include the single dummy (short circuit pin 3,6) for D12, The buffer should be dual (short circuit between Pin 1&3 and pin 5&7) like in some post in SM3 amp forum. So I made myself 2 buffers... I think this buffer sound better and so far have not burned my D12.


----------



## darkarn

What input/output options do you all see in Windows whenever you plug in the D12 to your computers as an USB DAC?


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





darkarn said:


> What input/output options do you all see in Windows whenever you plug in the D12 to your computers as an USB DAC?


 

  
  "USB Audio Codec" in playback in sound --> you can change the name to whatever later... I am not sure why you ask about "input" in USB port of D12?


----------



## darkarn

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> "USB Audio Codec" in playback in sound --> you can change the name to whatever later... I am not sure why you ask about "input" in USB port of D12?


 

 I asked as I do recall seeing a "Microphone" associated with the D12 once I plugged in (aside from the "USB Audio Codec"). I wanted to know if this is what I am supposed to see and could use.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





darkarn said:


> I asked as I do recall seeing a "Microphone" associated with the D12 once I plugged in (aside from the "USB Audio Codec"). I wanted to know if this is what I am supposed to see and could use.


 

  
  I got it too, ibaso D12 does not have microphone...... windows/audio driver sometimes take some dummy things, my asus xonar STX even has 4 input devices recognized.


----------



## darkarn

I thought that was referring to another port though; I think it might be related to the coaxial =X


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





darkarn said:


> I thought that was referring to another port though; I think it might be related to the coaxial =X


 


  I think those input ports can not feed data back to PC through the same USB port...


----------



## darkarn

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> I think those input ports can not feed data back to PC through the same USB port...


 

 Ah, what a pity, i was hoping to be able to use the "Microphone" for recording...


----------



## darkarn

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> I think those input ports can not feed data back to PC through the same USB port...


 
  Ah, what a pity, I was hoping that it could be used for recording...


----------



## Fawk

Hi guys.. I tried Googling and I'm not really sure where to ask this.. please point me to the right direction.
   
  I just got my D12 yesterday and I'm experiencing some problems (first time DAC/AMP owner too). When I receive a message on my iPhone I get some interference on my headphones (doesn't happen without the D12), the sort of sound you get when you put a phone near speakers. Is this normal? The D12 is plugged into my PC using the toslink provided and powered by the USB cable. My headphones are Alessandro MS2i.
   
  Another problem is when I turn on the D12, I get this hissing sound, it gets louder as I turn the volume up. When I play a song the hiss goes away. When I stop the song, the hiss is not there anymore. The hiss is only present the first time I turn the D12 on. If a song is playing and I turn the D12 on, the hiss is not present as well. My player is Foobar2000 using wasapi at 1000ms 24bits. To avoid the annoying hiss, I now turn the music on first before turning on the D12. What might be the problem here?
   
  Did I get a bad unit or something?
   
  The D12 is also set to low gain by the way and the headphone is plugged in into the input that says "phone".
   
  Also, I didn't notice any significant different when using the D12 or without, this could probably be a problem with my ears I suppose.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





fawk said:


> Hi guys.. I tried Googling and I'm not really sure where to ask this.. please point me to the right direction.
> 
> I just got my D12 yesterday and I'm experiencing some problems (first time DAC/AMP owner too). When I receive a message on my iPhone I get some interference on my headphones (doesn't happen without the D12), the sort of sound you get when you put a phone near speakers. Is this normal? The D12 is plugged into my PC using the toslink provided and powered by the USB cable. My headphones are Alessandro MS2i.
> 
> ...


 

 Regarding the hiss, from my experiences with D12, there are 2 possible reasons. Other than these, I don't know..
  - The USB hub: you can unplug the D12 from USB port and see if the noise is there.
  - The optical link: I have not tried wasabi, but using foobar with ASIO, there is no noise on mine. Sometimes the optical signal is not clean though. I recalled there are significant hiss when I used direct optical link from my Xonar STX. I reinstalled driver, and tried to mute all other noise in windows, then it disappeared. However, I think ASIO is the way to go.


----------



## Fawk

Thanks for your reply civilaudio! I found out the problem (I think) and it's because of my silliness. I setup the playback on my pc to 24/192k and that gave me the problems. I have since switched it back to 24/96 and the interference and hiss have gone away. I even tried using my iPhone right next to the D12 and the interference is gone. I only had 10 minutes to play around with it this morning, will try it again later when I get home from work and report back if it doesnt work.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





fawk said:


> Thanks for your reply civilaudio! I found out the problem (I think) and it's because of my silliness. I setup the playback on my pc to 24/192k and that gave me the problems. I have since switched it back to 24/96 and the interference and hiss have gone away. I even tried using my iPhone right next to the D12 and the interference is gone. I only had 10 minutes to play around with it this morning, will try it again later when I get home from work and report back if it doesnt work.


 


  I did think of that issue but that problem normally persists when you play music with your player (which you said it disappeared). Properly the player "wasapi (?)" takes control of the output and change the bit rate so the noise went away...
   
  Anyway, if the problem is just the bit rate then your D12 is just fine.


----------



## Fawk

The interference from the phone is still there (if I use an iphone bumper its less), but the initial "turn on" hiss sound is gone.
   
  One quick question (perhaps the wrong place to ask this), if my flac is 16/44 and I set the playback to 24/96, it wont matter right?


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





fawk said:


> The interference from the phone is still there (if I use an iphone bumper its less), but the initial "turn on" hiss sound is gone.
> 
> One quick question (perhaps the wrong place to ask this), if my flac is 16/44 and I set the playback to 24/96, it wont matter right?


 


  I think it is part of bigger discussion whether upsampling (oversampling) is good or bad... IMO, it is still best if we the same rate as source (frankly I don't have much 24bit music to play... only 1 or 2)


----------



## munkyballz

Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> Thanks for the input, I was worried I'd need to buy a more robust DAC to properly supply a tube amp down the road.
> 
> *I'm still just a bit confused about the best way to keep the D12 plugged in. I've looked at several of the amp manuals and a few of them state to make sure to keep the switch in the off position to maintain battery life. When I do have the switch to off and the usb power adapter is plugged in am I discharging battery still? I'm a bit confused and concerned I'll damage the amp if I don't set it up right. *I still can't get over all the little extra's ibasso threw in and am reading up on opamp rolling


 
   
  I read through the thread and I don't think anybody answered your question, which I was curious about too.
   
  I believe that if you plug the D12 through USB (to say use it as a DAC/amp unit) with the charge switch off, it will run using the internal battery.
   
  So not sure if you're suppose to switch the charge ON all the time if using it as a dac/amp for the PC or switch it off, can anyone clarify this?


----------



## Cotnijoe

Hey guys. This might be a dumb question but I'm kinda new to dacs and stuff. Will the dacs be able to read any type of file u throw at it?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





munkyballz said:


> I read through the thread and I don't think anybody answered your question, which I was curious about too.
> 
> I believe that if you plug the D12 through USB (to say use it as a DAC/amp unit) with the charge switch off, it will run using the internal battery.
> 
> So not sure if you're suppose to switch the charge ON all the time if using it as a dac/amp for the PC or switch it off, can anyone clarify this?


 
   
  I believe leaving the switch "ON" will result in shorter battery life as the D12 will always be charging.  I would recommend leaving it off and flicking the switch on periodically as needed to restore power.
   
  This is the sole reason I sold my D12 vs. my older MicroDAC...the D12 does not have a good continuous usage mode without (eventually) sacrificing its battery.


----------



## HiFlight

OTOH, the D12 User Manual states that the D12 has overcharge protection and that the charger can be left on continuously without overcharging. 

With the Charge switch turned off, only the USB receiver is powered by USB, so in order to use the D12 as a stand-alone DAC or as a DAC/Headphone amplifier, battery power is necessary. Essentially, battery power is required for any D12 function. Of course with the Charge switch turned on, the battery just acts a a reservoir for power delivered via the USB cable and will remain charged.


----------



## wolfen68

I agree with all, including that the D12 won't overcharge...but the constant trickle charge will result in a shortened battery life.


----------



## giveit2menow

I was surprised that my laptop > usb input d12 > p4amp gave me the need to reduce the gain to zero or the volume didnt go past 8 oclock. Using the p4 straight from my walkman z gave me the need to up the gain or the volume went right round to 3 oclock.
   
  Now i thought the aux out of the d12 bypassed its amp, so why does it seem the d12 outputs such a higher signal than a straight lod from the walkman thus bypassing that players amp fully.
   
  On another note, using the d12 as a dac and then routing through the p4 filled out the bottom end, gave me more seperation but strangely also gave a more laid back mid. The d12 on its own had a noticeably more upfront mid. The p4 sounded more refined in the mid but just lost a teeny bit of excitement. Overall the the p4 was a definite upgrade, perhaps a 20% edge over the d12 alone. Shame they made switching gain so awkward, having to open the case up rather than a simple switch like the d12.


----------



## WizardKnight

I received my TopKit today. I tried all the new opamps and really love the pink coded opamp which is the most neutral sounding. It seems to add more extension to the top of the highs and has a more lush sound. The buffers in the TopKit seemed to improve the sound a small amount and give a little more power. My headphones are only 32 ohm and do not require a lot of power. So I compared the sound quality of the high and low gain settings of the amp and prefer the low gain setting. To me the TopKit seemed to give a significant boost in overall sound quality versus stock opamps and buffers. If I had to guess how much improvement would guess is somewhere around a 60 or 70% improvement. Thanks Ron for making the TopKit!


----------



## Yuceka

Ok here's my question. I just received my D12 and I think it is a great sounding DAC. Recently I sold my Macbook Pro and got an Air instead so I am no longer able to use my desktop DAC (Bifrost) with its optical as Macbook Air does not have an optical out. 
   
  iBasso says: *PCM2906B, converts USB into a S/PDIF signal*
   
  Does that mean that I can use the D12 between my Macbook Air and the Bifrost to provide optical signal out of the D12 into my desktop DAC? I don't see how that is possible but I am just trying to see what my possibilities are. 
   
  Thank you for the answers.


----------



## WizardKnight

I have a 13" MacBook Air and just use the USB to my amp and it sounds great! As far as I am aware the optical on the D12 is for input only. I love to use this input for my XBOX 360 and Apple TV via the optical output of my TV set.


----------



## sweex

Hy,
  After reading this thread I'm seriously considering buying the D12 but I hope someone can help me out as this will be my first AMP/DAC combo.
  I actually need this because I get a lot of audible ground-loop noise because of the PLC in our apartment. So that's why I would want to use the optical out from my MacBook Pro. I currently own Bower & Wilkins P5 Headphones which I really like, but they only have 26Ohm impedance so I was wondering if it would be able to deliver enough current? 
   
  I do have some information on battery life of li-ion batteries: 
  These type of batteries don't suffer from memory loss (when the battery capacity reduces when charging the while its not completely discharged) but the contrary. The best thing to do with these batteries is to charge and discharge them regularly because when keeping them completely charged and discharged the cells can "freeze up" and your battery capacity reduces.
   
  Hope that helps and that you can help me in return 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  PS my other option would be an Audioengine D1, I guess they will be able to drive my headphones as they show the same connected to the device on their website.


----------



## detoxguy

You should also look into the new Schiit mini combo. For 200 bucks you get a USB powered dac and a separate amp with tons of current.


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## sweex

By the Schiit mini combo I guess you mean the Magni Amp + Modi DAC? 
 I kind of liked the fact that the iBasso had the two in one and the battery makes it portable also. I was wondering however how you would compare it to the Fiio E17, which has more or less the same features for less money. I am willing to spend more on the iBasso but I would expect better sound quality in return.


----------



## detoxguy

I had the iBasso and absolutely loved it and wholeheartedly recommend it. I  haven't heard any of the Fiio stuff at all so can't comment. sorry


----------



## Chris J

sweex said:


> Hy,
> After reading this thread I'm seriously considering buying the D12 but I hope someone can help me out as this will be my first AMP/DAC combo.
> I actually need this because I get a lot of audible ground-loop noise because of the PLC in our apartment. So that's why I would want to use the optical out from my MacBook Pro. I currently own Bower & Wilkins P5 Headphones which I really like, but they only have 26Ohm impedance so I was wondering if it would be able to deliver enough current?
> 
> ...




an audible ground loop because of the PLC in your apartment?

if you have 260 Ohm headphones then your question really is, does the D12 have enough output voltage to drive that load.
I'll try using it with my 600 Ohm headphones tonight.
I'm not sure how they compare to the B&W 'phones.


----------



## sweex

Yes I guess my MBP uses a notch filter to filter out the 50Hz (Europe) and leaves the other frequencies.  But the P5 is only 26 Ohm so if I'm not mistaken current will be more of a problem than output voltage.


----------



## sweex

I got my D12 today and I'm extremely happy with it! I get a lot more detail out of my music, and it feels stronger and more refined.
  The only critique I could give is the lack of a manual. Even on their website you can't find a whole lot of information. 
  I would especially like a bit more information concerning the opamp rolling. I see I got one from Analog Devices and then two chips who seem to be bypassed by a diode. 
  Am I correct to state that the gain switch should be up for higher impedant headphones?
   
  Edited a stupid fault.


----------



## Chris J

sweex said:


> Yes I guess my MBP uses a notch filter to filter out the 50Hz (Europe) and leaves the other frequencies.  But the P5 is only 26 Ohm so if I'm not mistaken current will be more of a problem than output voltage.




Yes, with 26 Ohm headphones you need a bit more current, a bit less voltage.
My D12 works fine with my 62 Ohm Q701 'phones. The Q701 are not a very efficient headphone, I suspect if the D12 can drive Q701 it can drive any typical low impedance headphone.


----------



## Chris J

sweex said:


> I got my D12 today and I'm extremely happy with it! I get a lot more detail out of my music, and it feels stronger and more refined.
> The only critique I could give is the lack of a manual. Even on their website you can't find a whole lot of information.
> I would especially like a bit more information concerning the opamp rolling. I see I got one from Analog Devices and then two ships who seem to be bypassed by a diode.
> Am I correct to state that the gain switch should be up for higher impedant headphones?




Glad to hear that you are enjoying the D12!

I usually leave the gain switch down, If you are turning the volume control way up, then turn the gain switch up to get more volume.

There is a lot of good information about Op Amp rolling in this thread. Try using the thread search button.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





sweex said:


> I got my D12 today and I'm extremely happy with it! I get a lot more detail out of my music, and it feels stronger and more refined.
> The only critique I could give is the lack of a manual. Even on their website you can't find a whole lot of information.
> I would especially like a bit more information concerning the opamp rolling. I see I got one from Analog Devices and then two ships who seem to be bypassed by a diode.
> Am I correct to state that the gain switch should be up for higher impedant headphones?


 
  I tend to use the high gain for everything as I like the sound a little better. For some phones, the high gain is needed. It doesn't increase the power, just the output volume of the amp.


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## sweex

Ok thank you for the input. I've read the whole thread but to be honest the information is posted by bits and pieces and not it's not always very clear what is meant. I found this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/543180/opamps-for-dummies-ibasso-d12 thread more helpful. 
  But I still have a few questions to see if I understood everything:
  Normally the only difference between the opamp and the buffer is that the buffers are optimised for unity gain use. So if I wanted I could put the red opamps in the silver's place but it would probably not help the sound quality?


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## Chris J

Quote: 





sweex said:


> Ok thank you for the input. I've read the whole thread but to be honest the information is posted by bits and pieces and not it's not always very clear what is meant. I found this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/543180/opamps-for-dummies-ibasso-d12 thread more helpful.
> But I still have a few questions to see if I understood everything:
> Normally the only difference between the opamp and the buffer is that the buffers are optimised for unity gain use. So if I wanted I could put the red opamps in the silver's place but it would probably not help the sound quality?


 
   
  Too bad there wasn't more participation in the Op Amps for Dummies iBasso D12 thread.
   
  I'm not sure if you can swap the red with the silver.
  I would assume the answer is no! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Before you swap any out, make sure you make a drawing of the original layout and make sure you understand where Pin 1 is. Good luck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Lately I've been using LMH6643 with Dummy Buffers. Seemed to work well with my Q701. Can't remember why!
  I'll have to try swapping some around again, I haven't done any swapping in the D12 for almost 2 years....


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## molika

is the dac stage on the d12 any better or an improvement on the Essence ST or the fiio e17. have the essence and the fiio and a dedicated tube amp.  cheers


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## Chris J

molika said:


> is the dac stage on the d12 any better or an improvement on the Essence ST or the fiio e17. have the essence and the fiio and a dedicated tube amp.  cheers




I own the E17 and the D12.
I don't think there is a huge difference in sound quality between the two.
I certainly don't think the D12 is an upgrade from the E17 DAC.

I've never tried comparing the two pieces as headphone amps though.

If you really are serious about a DAC upgrade, then you are really looking at something like an Audiolab M-DAC, for example.


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## dazzer1975

What is the sound floor like on the d12? I remember my pico ownership days, and I just loved the silence and deep black background of that amp.
   
  Does the d12 compare anywhere near?
   
  Suppose it is academic as I specifically want optical connection, but still nice to hear others opinions.


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## Chris J

dazzer1975 said:


> What is the sound floor like on the d12? I remember my pico ownership days, and I just loved the silence and deep black background of that amp.
> 
> Does the d12 compare anywhere near?
> 
> Suppose it is academic as I specifically want optical connection, but still nice to hear others opinions.




It's the only amp I own that is quiet enough to use with my Shure SE210 IEMs.


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## dazzer1975

that's very nice to hear 
   
  Just dug out my mz-rh1 minidisc player, so taht has thrown my plans up in the air for the moment.... decisions decisions.


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## lerxst

I'm looking for an amp to make my RWAK100 sound like my DX100. I use UE PRMs. Do you think the D12 fits the bill? Does the D12 sound like the DX100? 

The main difference in SQ I've noticed between the RWAK100 and my DX100 is the sound stage is a bit less wide on the RWAK100. That's what I'd like to improve. 

Does the D12 have that splendid soundstage of the DX100?


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## Chris J

lerxst said:


> I'm looking for an amp to make my RWAK100 sound like my DX100. I use UE PRMs. Do you think the D12 fits the bill? Does the D12 sound like the DX100?
> 
> The main difference in SQ I've noticed between the RWAK100 and my DX100 is the sound stage is a bit less wide on the RWAK100. That's what I'd like to improve.
> 
> Does the D12 have that splendid soundstage of the DX100?




I'm not too sure what you are looking for?
I find soundstage is predominantly based on the headphone I am using.


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## lerxst

chris j said:


> I'm not too sure what you are looking for?
> I find soundstage is predominantly based on the headphone I am using.




Here's my situation. I'm comparing the SQ between my DX100 and my RWAK100. The DX100‘s sound stage is much wider. I would like to get a similar sound out of my RWAK100. I was hoping using it's optical out, into the D12, might make it sound more like my DX100. 

What do you think?


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## Chris J

lerxst said:


> Here's my situation. I'm comparing the SQ between my DX100 and my RWAK100. The DX100‘s sound stage is much wider. I would like to get a similar sound out of my RWAK100. I was hoping using it's optical out, into the D12, might make it sound more like my DX100.
> 
> What do you think?




Sorry man, I know almost nothing about the DX100.....


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## lerxst

Is it just me or is the D12 not able to play 24/192 audio via optical in? When I try this via my AK100 and the Sysconcept cable, I can hear the song but a TON of static on top of it. Does the D12 not actually support 192 kHz optical input? iBasso's web site is surprisingly silent on the question. As far as I can tell, all the DAC chips support it, except the USB chip. Yet, it doesn't work.


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## Armaegis

Isn't toslink limited to 96k? I believe the coax will handle 192k (someone do correct me if I'm wrong about this)


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## Ehr33

Hi guys. I'm new to this OPAMP rolling things. Is it possible if I install the OP2134 in the buffer and OP134 in the amp section? Any advise would be appreciate, thanks!


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## jamato8

Quote: 





ehr33 said:


> Hi guys. I'm new to this OPAMP rolling things. Is it possible if I install the OP2134 in the buffer and OP134 in the amp section? Any advise would be appreciate, thanks!


 
  I would drop a line to HiFlight or email iBasso.


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## Ehr33

Requested black & silver D12 to match my portable rig and custom sysconcept cable too. It's my FOTM!


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## nananan

I'm considering get a secondhand of D12.
  I mainly use Ultrasone Pro2900 for home use (DAC), and um3x for portable use. (AMP) with ipod classic.
  How D12 can do with this? for home use, movie/music 70/30
   
  Thanks!


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## Chris J

Just thought I would post this comparison in here for all you iBasso D12 fans!
   
  In this corner, the champeen, the heavyweight, the Matrix M Stage, weighing in at approx. $250. This the version without the DAC and without the cute little airholes. Op Amp is the LM4562, input caps were removed.
  And in the other corner, the Contender, The One, The Only, *The iBasso D12*, weighing it at about $275. Op Amps are stock.
   
  DAC used was the built in DAC in the iBasso D12.
  The M Stage was driven via the Line Out jack on the iBasso.
  And the 'phones? My trusty black Q701.
   
  This one is tough to call, both amps are very transparent for the price.
  On one hand, the iBasso does seem to have the edge as it seems a bit more articulate, more detailed, a bit more "audiophile" but I think this is just a side effect of the lightness of the iBasso's sound.
  On the other hand, the Matrix just sounds fuller, for example, brushes on drums sound fuller, you can hear the brushes on the drum skin, vocals sound more full bodied, acoustic guitars have a bit more wood to them.
  The iBasso just sounds a touch brighter, or probably more accurately has a touch less fullness, less mass, less weight, not to the extent where I would say that it is harsh, just a bit lightweight. With the iBasso, detail almost seems to be slightly over emphasized. The iBasso makes an acoustic piano sounds a little smaller, like a 6 foot grand, the Matrix makes an acoustic piano sound a bit more like an 8 foot grand. This isn't to say the iBasso is strident or a bad amp, it just lacks that extra touch of bass fullness. A bit less natural, a bit more artificial. The iBasso renders a bit more of a delicate sound.
   
  Bottom line is: the iBasso is a damn fine DAC amp for $275.00
  But the headphone amp in the iBasso D12 looses a bit of that naturalness the M Stage tends to convey.
  Comparing headphone amp to headphone amp, I was surprised at how close the race really is.
   
  Chris


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Just thought I would post this comparison in here for all you iBasso D12 fans!
> 
> In this corner, the champeen, the heavyweight, the Matrix M Stage, weighing in at approx. $250. This the version without the DAC and without the cute little airholes. Op Amp is the LM4562, input caps were removed.
> And in the other corner, the Contender, The One, The Only, *The iBasso D12*, weighing it at about $275. Op Amps are stock.
> ...


 
  Did you try any different op amps in the D12?


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## Ehr33

I bought the D12 to match with UE900. Did some rolling and end with OP2134 on the buffer + stock L/R. This combo bump up the high a little bit and make the UE900 sound airy. The way I want it.


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## Chris J

jamato8 said:


> Did you try any different op amps in the D12?



 
 Good question. I have in the past, but went back to the stock Op Amps a few weeks ago. I've been meaning to experiment with different Op Amps in the D12 for the Q701. I may redo this comparison with another set of Op Amps in the D12 sometime in the future.


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## boombobby289

Fiio X3 has Coaxial Output. In another word, I can bypass its internal DAC and use a DAC/AMP that has coaxial S/PDIF digital inputs.
   
  Between iBasso D12 and Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII, which is a better pick if I want the sound quality to be smooth, thick, rich, detail, clear, deep bass and big sound stage?


----------



## Chris J

I've never heard the Leckerton, but I do find the iBasso D12 to be a smooth, clear and detailed and and DAC.
  For best results listen to the D12 without the USB charging cable connected, i.e. via battery power.


----------



## eddiekuo

I have a portable CD player with line out / optical out function.
  Is it possible to use D12's optical input connection and then connect my headphone to the headphone out of D12
  to listen to music?
  The two WM8740s in D12 should be much better than the DAC used in the portable CD player.
  So I am just wondering if I can use the connections this way other than CD line out - D12 line in - D12 headphone out.


----------



## Ehr33

eddiekuo said:


> I have a portable CD player with line out / optical out function.
> Is it possible to use D12's optical input connection and then connect my headphone to the headphone out of D12
> to listen to music?
> The two WM8740s in D12 should be much better than the DAC used in the portable CD player.
> So I am just wondering if I can use the connections this way other than CD line out - D12 line in - D12 headphone out.




Yes the D12 do accept digital optical.


----------



## Spadge

I'm just wondering if anyone has compared a D12 via USB input to an AK100 via USB input?

I currently have an AK100 and love how it sounds, however it doesn't work as a USB DAC with USB3.0 ports.... which is my only option on my Surface Pro.

I could get a USB->TOSLINK adaptor for the Surface Pro, but that's getting a bit bulky (USB->TOSLINK ->AK100 -> 2STEPDANCE) and I'm wondering how an iBasso d12 (USB -> D12) would fare in comparison?

Thanks for any input.

Paul


----------



## Bugdozer

I'm running a FiiO X3 with my iBasso P4. Could I expect an noticeable improvement by upgrading to the D12 and using the digital out of the X3?


----------



## CosmicHolyGhost

bugdozer said:


> I'm running a FiiO X3 with my iBasso P4. Could I expect an noticeable improvement by upgrading to the D12 and using the digital out of the X3?



You will get different SS..all dac and amp are then done by d12... But if this is what you want, you can also just get the dx50 and swap between two daps two battery lives, and without the need for carrying a stack...


----------



## MarcJC

My apologies for the necro, but it's hard to find details on some of these ibasso dacs with references to compare to. Would any of you owners of the D12 be able to shed any light on how the DAC portion of the D12 sounds? I'm going to feed this into a PB2, and the only sourge gear references I have relevant to head fi would be the SS of a Fiio x3, e11 through various phones, ipod touch 4th gen stock. I'm currently trying to find a DAC to pair with the PB2, and am stuck between the DB2 and D12, and yes, I'll be listening in balanced. 

 I've read here that the D12 is "light", yet detailed. I've read the same of the DB2 compared to heavier amps, while at the same time more detailed statements calling it "dark", contradicting other subjective impressions.
  
 Any input would be appreciated


----------



## Chris J

marcjc said:


> My apologies for the necro, but it's hard to find details on some of these ibasso dacs with references to compare to. Would any of you owners of the D12 be able to shed any light on how the DAC portion of the D12 sounds? I'm going to feed this into a PB2, and the only sourge gear references I have relevant to head fi would be the SS of a Fiio x3, e11 through various phones, ipod touch 4th gen stock. I'm currently trying to find a DAC to pair with the PB2, and am stuck between the DB2 and D12, and yes, I'll be listening in balanced.
> 
> 
> I've read here that the D12 is "light", yet detailed. I've read the same of the DB2 compared to heavier amps, while at the same time more detailed statements calling it "dark", contradicting other subjective impressions.
> ...




I'll agree with light, but detailed.
It's a better DAC than the FiiO E17 I used to own, but it also costs twice as much!
The E17 sounded foggy by comparison.


----------



## ph58

Hi , every one , i am searching for a mini jack opitical cable , this is to  connect my AK100 MKII to the Ibasso D12 , thanks in advance .


----------



## Chris J

ph58 said:


> Hi , every one , i am searching for a mini jack opitical cable , this is to  connect my AK100 MKII to the Ibasso D12 , thanks in advance .




Try ordering a Silflex Optical cable with Toslink on one end and mini jack on the other end.


----------



## ph58

Thanks for your reply , as you said ,i've been to their site "Silflex Optical cable" , their shorter cable is too long for me, and it is expensive too : 65 USD + shipping .


----------



## Ehr33

ph58 said:


> Hi , every one , i am searching for a mini jack opitical cable , this is to  connect my AK100 MKII to the Ibasso D12 , thanks in advance .




http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=364&osCsid=76u8dfn0g94mithfl8ucrju2p2

They will build it for you to your specific needs. Great people too.


----------



## ph58

OK , thanks very much , i'll see that .


----------



## Chris J

ph58 said:


> Thanks for your reply , as you said ,i've been to their site "Silflex Optical cable" , their shorter cable is too long for me, and it is expensive too : 65 USD + shipping .




Yes they are expensive but the build quality is outstanding!
I own a pair of their optical cables, one with mini jack and toslink, and one with Toslinks on both ends.


----------



## ph58

ehr33 said:


> http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=364&osCsid=76u8dfn0g94mithfl8ucrju2p2
> 
> They will build it for you to your specific needs. Great people too.


 

 Hi , i have found with your help what i want from Sysconcept . I think that is the right Toslink mini cable for my AK100 MKII and Ibasso D12 , send them a message for more precision , and will order the mini cable . Thanks for your help .            PS : It is the  1300-strands 24/192, Toslink Mini 90-deg Precision Premium Cable


----------



## Ehr33

ph58 said:


> Hi , i have found with your help what i want from Sysconcept . I think that is the right Toslink mini cable for my AK100 MKII and Ibasso D12 , send them a message for more precision , and will order the mini cable . Thanks for your help .            PS : It is the  1300-strands 24/192, Toslink Mini 90-deg Precision Premium Cable




Glad I can help. Good choice with the Precision Premium Cable. They are the best custom optical cable around. Got myself the premium cable few years ago.


----------



## ph58

Thanks to you Er33 , i am waiting for the delivery of the D12 Anaconda but i wonder if the  DB2 Boomslang is superior in term of Sound Quality ? Autonomy ; ease of use , recharging ...... it cost  not so much more then the D12 , i still have the possibility to change for the DB2 now , if it is worth the upgrade . If someone can help me . Thanks in advance .


----------



## ph58

I have the answer , the DB2  have not a built in amp , i'st just a Dac  , the D12 have ( work as Dac Amp ) , so for me it is the D12 no doubt . Thanks .


----------



## ph58

ehr33 said:


> Glad I can help. Good choice with the Precision Premium Cable. They are the best custom optical cable around. Got myself the premium cable few years ago.


 
 The cable have been order , you are right ,  they are Great people . Many thanks .


----------



## ph58

Hi , i have  an question : how to charge the D12 ? can i use the chager of my cell phone , or tablet ? there is a switch charge on/off , when charging it must be on position ON ?  Thanks in advance .


----------



## The hitman

ph58 said:


> Hi , i have  an question : how to charge the D12 ? can i use the chager of my cell phone , or tablet ? there is a switch charge on/off , when charging it must be on position ON ?  Thanks in advance .


 
 yes , you have to turn on the switch to on position. 
  
 guyz, how to connect the optical cables to my Z5500 speaker ? can i ?


----------



## Ehr33

Upgraded to Burr Brown opa134 series, both buffer and amp. Gain a bit brighter and more forward mid.


----------



## jamato8

ehr33 said:


> Upgraded to Burr Brown opa134 series, both buffer and amp. Gain a bit brighter and more forward mid.


 

 So how do you like the sound with them?


----------



## Ehr33

I like how it sound right now. Compared with the stock opamp, it push abit more detail and more lively but less warm. Music sound snappier and fast.


----------



## jamato8

ehr33 said:


> I like how it sound right now. Compared with the stock opamp, it push abit more detail and more lively but less warm. Music sound snappier and fast.


 

 Yeah, those op amps used right are pretty nice.


----------

