# Sennheiser HD600/580 replacement cable comparison/impressions (Dial-up warning)



## Tuberoller

Why Sennheiser continues to produce and ship the HD600/580,and now even the HD650,with the inferior stock cable is beyone me. Senn's oversite is the boon of the aftermarket cable vendors and a great thing for the users and fans of the HD 600 phones. I figured that Senn would for sure jump in the ring and offer a good cable on the HD650 phones and perhaps offer this cable to current HD600/580 users to get in on the cable replacement bandwagon,but alas,they opted to stay the course.

 The first time I did this there were four replacement cables to chose from,today there are at least eight from six vendors. I have yet to decide if this really is a good thing. I spent the last week with all these cables burning them in as I listened and enjoying them all along the way.

 The contenders are (from top to bottom)
_Clou Red Jaspis 212_ 
_Stefan Audioart Equinox_ 
_Moon Audio Silver Dragon_ 
_Moon Audio Blue Dragon_ 
_Zu Cable Mobius_ 
_Cardas "Smurf Blue"_ 







 The gear list;
 Headphones:
 HD600-3 units,all well used
 HD580-Thanks Mike for the loaners

 Amps:
 Headroom Max w/stepped attenuator
 Headroom Cosmic w/reference module
 Headroom Little More Power
 Ray Samuels Audio XP-7
 Meier Audio Prehead LM
 Meier Audio HA1 MKII
 Wheatfield HA2
 JMT PPA
 JMT Meta 42 Maxed

 Sources:
 Marantz DV8400 Universal Digital Player
 Denon 2900 Universal Digital Player
 Philips DVD 963SA
 Musical Fidelity A324 DAC
 Musichall Maverick SACD player
 VPI Scout w/Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood Cart
 Ray Samuels XR2 Phono amp

 Cables:
 Acoustic Zen WOW! 1 meter interconnect
 Meier Audio 1/2 meter interconnect
 Dimarzio M-path 1 meter interconnect
 Moon-Audio Silver Dragon Interconnect

 I have been playing with these cables all week and have been having a bit of a stinkin' good time doing it. While it may indeed be a matter of taste as to which of these cables you would like best in your system,there is little disputing that they are all an improvement over the stock cable. I listened to a lot of music this past week and watched a few movies on my laptop and portable DVD player and used it all in my comparison of the cables.

 I just got the Moon-Audio cables and the Zu Cable Mobius at the end of last week and did'nt have much of an opportunity to burn them in before the Chicago meet last weekend. I'm sorry if everybody in attendance did'nt get a chance to hear all the cables but I do know that a good number of you did and I would love to hear what you guys thought about them as well.

 This is a typical pic of my desktop this week with all the cables taking up space from my amps and the work I'm supposed to be doing.





 I'm gonna do this short impression a little different than usual breaking things down into catagories to simplify my impressions. I'm also going to update the specs,prices and some other stuff a little later after this is posted.

*Construction/Ergonomics* 

 All the cables seem to have a very good build quality,using good quality parts and having excellent construction. As is usally the case, there are some standouts. I know this is,again, a matter of taste,but I tend to prefer the Techflex outer sleeves of the Equinox,Mobius,and the Moon Audio cables. The Clou and Cardas both function fine with the standard wire insulation but the Techflex seems to be less snag prone and looks better to me. The Clou and Moon Audio Blue Dragon are the stiffest cables but the Clou is much stiffer than any of the other cables including the Blue Dragon. This stiffness is only problematic when moving but it is annoying when you attempt to reach for something and have to move the cable out of the way. The Blue Dragon was not a big problem and it seems to have become more flexible over the past week. The connectors on the cables are a mixed bag of the good and not so good. The Equinox and Clou both use Stock Sennheiser cable ends spliced onto the cables. The Mobius uses a unique driver cable end made from machined aluminum. You can see in this pic the nice contruction of the Zu Cable Connector.





 The Zu Cables connector was a super tight fit and forced me to use electrical pliers to install it. I don't know if it damaged the phones at all but it was a scary fit and I would hate to do this to a new set of HD650 Phones. 

 The Cardas and both the Moon Audio cables use the new Cardas connector, which is a huge improvement in terms of fit,over the old Cardas connector. You can see the Cardas logo on the connector in this pic of the Moon Audio Silver Dragon





 I did not know there were so many 1/4" headphone jack plugs to chose from but I think all the good ones are represented here. The Equinox uses the very good Neutrik connector that I think has the best fit in just about every headphone jack I have tried. The Clou and Cardas I have both have Switchcraft connectors though I have seen later Cardas' with the Cardas Rodium 1/4 connector and Clous' with the new Neutrik Custom plugs. The Moon Audio cables both use the Cardas 1/4" plug and I have found them to fit a bit loose in most locking headphone jacks,especially those found on the Headroom Max and JMT's PPA. The loose fit is very obvious and has become a bit worse during use,causing static and RFI problems when moving around.

 Only the Moon Audio is of Pure Silver construction with the ZuCable having silver plated copper and the other cables being of full copper construction. The Moon Audio cables are both in a 10 foot length as is the Cardas and Clou. The Zu cable and Equinox are both 9 footers which should be considered.



*Sonics/Synergy* 

 I was determined to try all the possible amp/source/cable combos available to me while I had the cables in my hands. I think I did but I certainly had some faves that I have to mention. The Equinox is my reference cable with the HD600, using the Max amp. I am very accustomed to the sound of this combo and any change to it was very apparent. Right out of the box the Silver Dragon impressed the crap out of me. It was Dynamic, detailed and had a fantastic front to back layering of midrange and bass. The treble of the Silver Dragon has smoothed out nicely over the week from the somewhat forward,but not harsh,upper frequency I heard on the first listen. The Midrange of the Silver Dragon is superb in almost every way with outstanding detail and imaging. Instrument seperation is the best in the HD replacement cable biz and vocals arrive at your ears as intended. The Silver Dragon was also suberb with the Wheatfield and Supra and responded very well to some interconnect swaps I tried a little later. It sounded great with all the amps but the Max,Wheatfield and **** all made it sound spectacular.

 The Zu Cable Mobius was not far behind the Silver Dragon but surpassed it slightly in terms of bass extension and impact. It had a forward midrange that never calmed down during the 100 hours or so I used it but it did sound very good on all the solid state amps. The midrange bump made it sound a bit out of balance when using it with the Tubed amps but it was'nt terrible and I could see it being used with amps that have a slight midrange recession. I think this cable was voiced with the so-called "veil" of the HD 600 in mind. If this is your concern with the HD600 the the Mobius is your cable. The bass made this cable but the treble was outstanding as well. The extension is very good and the detail and timber was spot-on. This cable sounded great right out of the box as well with the improvements in bass depth coming with burn-in. The Mobius/**** combo was another of my faves and these two were just lovin' each other.I would not hestitate to recommend this cable strongly.

 The Equinox has been with me for a while and I have loved every minute of our time together. It is as balanced a cable as I heard. It is still the most balanced cable,improving every aspect of the HD600's performance to a great degree. It excelled in treble accuracy and extention ,offering fantastic low-level detail. the new Silver cables trounce it in midrange performance but it does'nt get embarrased too much. The bass is still near the top with only the Zu Cable performing better with deeper,tighter bass. The Equinox/Wheatfield Combo remains one of my favorite headphone/amp/cable combos of all time.

 The Moon Audio Blue Dragon took a while to grow on me. Out of the box it sounded dull as hell and very constricted,kinda like you had earplugs in your ears. It loosened up nicely over the past few days and became a contender. It has very good bass with good impact and very good dynamics through the midbass. Percussions sound very good with this cable and instrument seperation in the lower frequencies is excellent. This is one of those cables that sounds right on every amp and with every source. This is most likely the best choice for those of us who have a bunch of amps but prefer the HD600 phones over all others. The Blue Dragon does not offer the hyper-detail of the Silver Dragon or the deep bass of the Zucable but it does come very close to both after burning in some.

 I'm still trying to find a way to enjoy the Cardas cable in my system. It always seems to sound pretty good when I hear it in other systems and at the meets but it just lets me down at home. The Treble extension can only be called fair and the midrange seems a mile away compared to the Equinox,Silver Dragon and Mobius. It has good bass but it suffers from mediocre extension. It has very good seperation of instruments throughout the entire frequency and this is why I think most people like it so much and why it sounds good at shows.

 The Clou is not my flavor at all. It made all my tubed gear sound mushy and harsh at the same time if that's possible. I mean that the treble was grainy and splashy and the bass was sloppy. The highest and lowest frequencies were just phoned in. I really don't think this cable can do low frequencies at all and the highest treble frequencies were AWOL as well. I hate to beat up on it but the Clou was seriously outclassed here. 


 There are a bunch of factors to consider when chosing any cable but the HD600 cables will require even more system considerations. I encourage you all to attend a meeting where these cables may be in attendance so that you can audition them. I won't engage in the Copper vs. Silver wars here but there are some differences for sure. Cable skeptics need not apply,if you can't hear the differences in these cables you are in the wrong hobby.

 I will edit and update this as I get more info on the cables. I will also edit to correct my horrid spelling as I re-read it.


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## Nefarion

Nice review tuberoller.! Interesting read indeed.


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## GlowWorm

Good review, good read. Thank's.


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## Anders

Thanks for this guide into the jungle of extension cables, makes it a lot easier!


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## PinkFloyd

Do you have the prices for each cable please?

 Thanks

 Pinkie.


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## NetRunner

Very nice review. Thanks! *Still, I think I'll go with the Cardas as its available locally..*


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## Sean H

Very nice review Tubey! Thanks.


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## gswpete

Thanks for the review. Looks like Equinox or Silver Dragon for me.


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## dd3mon

Great review Tube - I've really been wondering about those three new cables (Moon & Zu), you've shed some needed light on the subject. I have an Equinox currently, and definitely love it. Would you think (given their costs) it would be worth upgrading to the Silver Dragon or Mobius?

 -dd3mon


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## stryker

Amen to the "you're in the wrong hobby" comment about cables' effect on sound. Although I am no newbie to hifi, I am with headphones. I could clearly hear major differences over the anemic stock cable and do agree with the assessment of the Equinox over the Cardas. The Cardas is still quite good, esp. in the bottom end, but the Equinox brings out a sort of bigger soundstage in general but esp. in the mids and highs. 

 Has anyone had the opportunity to compare DIY replacement cables over these commercial products? I'm also eager to see what Jan comes up with given that he (apparently) feels these cables are quite pricey, given their parts cost.


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## Tuberoller

don't you hate it when you spend an hour and half updating a thread and your computer spits it back and you and you loose all the stuff you just typed? and even worse when you are a key puncher....

 I'll try again to update the thread with all the specs and prices and some other info I got from Andy at Zu Cable and Drew from Moon Audio. The building of these cables is no small feat and you guys have to understand what's involved with designing a cable for a specfic product like headphones. Talking with both these guys was a bit of a revelation and was very enlightening.


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## zeplin

all i have to say is if there's anyone who wants to sell their Zu's, send em my way. either way, i'll have em in a few months. thanz tuberoller for the excellent comparison. it couldn't have come at a better time


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## AnsBjork

Jan told me his new cables should be ready by December...


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## futant

Thanks for the review, we're all appreciative.
 The replacement cable is the last thing (for now) that I need to do with my system...

 I'm using an MG Head OTL mkII.

 I was looking at the Zu cable but now I'm a little wary of this "midrange bump" that you describe.
 The Equinox has always been an option, seems like a quality cable.
 The Silver Dragon is pretty damn expensive but worth it, maybe, if it's going to team up best with my amp.
 Whatcha think?


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## sacd lover

Does anyone know the websites for the Zu and Moon Audio cables? Also, Tuberoller I wondered if you have heard the new hd650? If so which cable do you think would mate well with the 650; I am leaning towards an equinox. Nice review and very timely, thanks for taking the time to write up your impressions.


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## futant

http://www.moon-audio.com

http://www.zucable.com/

 I was mistaken, it seems.
 I recalled the Silver Dragon cable being closer to $300 for the 10' length.
 INTERESTING.
 3 solid options now...


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## darkclouds

Another nice review Tubes! AS usual, I'm always impressed, not only by the review itself, but also by the amount of time and work you and other reviewers put in. Much appreciated!


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## Geek

Tuberoller,

 Your review is excellent, and it pushed me over the edge. I am going to try out the Silver Dragon as per your experiences with these cables. I'd try the Zu cable, but I don't hear a midrange veil and don't want to damage the headphone.

 I currently use the cardas. I think it has excellent imaging and detail compared to the stock cable.

 I use the M-Path dimarzio interconnect and a MOH(R) which is basically the same as a max amp with my hd600s. I listen on SACD with the NS500V.

 Cheers,
 Geek


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## KShaft

I decided to go for the Mobius because of its bass performance!

 I am worried about the midrange forewardness, but perhaps some more break in would aleviate it. If not I just return it.

 The mobiui(sp?)are using new connectors, so Im guessing that problem about the fit will be fixed. 


 Ill post some short thoughts after I get my 650s and the cable(next week sometime). Nothing real long or in depth, just some basic impressions. 

 k.s.


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## Anders

I phoned Zu today and they said that Mobius was designed with regard to the electrical characteristics of the HD600 as impedance and not developed by voicing to this specific model.
 I will get one next week for my HD650.


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## sacd lover

Is everyone still having trouble with the Zu not fitting well? This looks like a good cable to try but not if they dont fit.


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## Anders

I talked to Zu Cable and they explained that there had been a problem but the plug size is changed so they should fit all models now. The first version did not fit all headphones because of changes of the headphone specification or variation around the specification in production. I have ordered the Mobius!


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## HanssoN

Anders, please tell us what you think of the cable when you recieve it, it seems very good...

 Do you think that the Moon Audio Silver Dragon would perhaps suit me better than the Mobius? (I'm a true detail-freak, but I still want good bass-performance =))

 Edit: I'm using a Harmony Design headphone amplifier, a very neutral solid-state amplifier, and I almost only listen to piano music. I'm looking for a new source too, and it will probably be a new NAD CD-player (521 BEE / 542) or the Philips 963SA...


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## Anders

I have really no idea as I only have experience of the Clou cable. I don't think one can go wrong with any of the other cables and all will be a clear improvement in relation to the stock cable, but some may suite better to ones equipment and taste. 
 I need an upgrade cable and had to make a choice based on my interpretation of the reviews etc. and what I believe will suite me best. If I had a possibility to test all cables, the choice might have been different. So it is essentially a decision based upon incomplete information and so we often have to go


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## sacd lover

Thanks for the response Anders. I second you giving us the low down once you audition the Zu.


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## Anders

I will take some time. Mobius should be manufacted and shipped this week, then take a trip over the Atlantic before I can burn-in and listen. Could go faster if you guys collect for overnight express!


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## tom hankins

I can give some comparisons between the Zu and equinox cables with the HD650.
 First off with the equinox I could hear(or not hear I guess) a lack of upper freq. compared to the HD600. With the Zu this is not so much the case. The phones seem to fill out the upper end much better with the Zu cable compared to the equinox. The sound with the Zu is IMO a much cleaner, tighter, clearer, and more focused sound than with the equinox. This is with both headphones. I love the bass on the equinox with the HD650, and to me it is a much more powerful sound than with the Zu cable.(although the bass is not lacking and go's as deep with the Zu)
 The bass is much more forward and seems louder on every recording with the equinox on the HD650. I'm thinking since I don't have many hours with the Zu yet(50-60) it will increase bass a little. If it stays just like it is I'll be happy though.
 I've talked to Adam at Zu and he says the fit problem is worked out. If you get a pr. that don't fit, They are the BEST co. I've delt with as far as customer service go's. Mine didn't fit and he sent me another pr. They fit the HD600's but were VERY tight with the HD650. I used a metal emery board and they are in there now, and easy to switch back and forth. 
 One strange point about the two cables is with the HD600 the bass seems a little better with the Zu. Just the opposite of the HD650. Overall I much prefer the sound of the Zu over the equinox with the 650. It keeps the better bass than the 600 and gives back much of the upper freq. that at first I thought was missing. The Zu lets mucho detail through with always sounding musical. I prefer both cables over the Cardas with the 600. Hope this helps some.


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## sacd lover

Good info Tom.


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## tom hankins

Earl, I think you will be happier with the equinox or one of the other cables over the Zu. The Zu seems to bring the treble a little more into the picture than the equinox with the HD650. IMO the treble sounds about the same with both cables on the HD600, except cleaner and more focus on the 600's. Let me burn it in awhile longer and if you are considering buying one I'll let you try mine for awhile first.


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## KShaft

I concur with Toms findings.

 The bass is more tangible with the stock cable right now than with the mobius. Im not happy at all. I bought this cable on the pretense that it would have the best bass of all the aftermarket cables. Ill give it a few days to improve, im at around 70 hours right now. Im not too happy at this point....

 They might have to re-engineer the cables specifically for the 650.

 These should have very powerful bass considering the stock 650 is comparable to the 600 with cardas. 

 This what I get for selling the r10s. Nothing but headache.

 TUBES! 650 details PLEASE! Im probably gonna order another cable. Equinox or silver moon! Id lover to hear your comparisons, as Im sure everybody else would!! I didnt expect a quality to be OPPOSITE. Different sure, but not a 180. 
 thanks,
 k.s.


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## tom hankins

KShaft, I too was suprised that the Zu would help the bass out on the 600's but not the 650's which I no have better bass to begin with. OTOH, the equinox lets tons of mid-bass slam, and extintion through with the HD650. By far the best bass I've heard(and the most) of any phone I've had so far. I just find the upper regions lacking with the equinox. This is all using either the SDS or the gilmore amps with either the Shanling w/mods or the Audio Aero CDp's. I would not have found the Zu lacking if I didn't know what kind of bass the 650's are capable of. Can you get your money back on the Zu's? I would suggest trying the equinox. Good luck.


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## sacd lover

I am in agreement with you KShaft, I think they may have to reengineer the cables for the 650. The equinox I tried was very good but it seemed to make the treble stick out to much to me, but I am no doubt more sensitive to this than most. I ended up liking the stock cable better even though its clearly inferior in some respects. If the Zu is more trebly with the 650 I know I wont like it. One thing I noticed though Tom, was your singlepower has the highest resolution I have ever heard and it reveals everything. The sheer amount of detail your amp can present is stunning; most amps dont approach what your amp can do.You may also find the Zu's bass sufficient because the singlepower seems to go to the bowels of the earth deep in the bass too.


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## KShaft

Thanks for the reply Tom and SL.

 When I first started breaking it in it had Much bass. Now its weak.

 It could be a break in phase, but your talking about the 600s pounding makes me wonder. Whats wierd is that its a step BACKWARDS from the stock cable. Not as much of an improvement as Id like, but BACKWARDS. Its less musical right now as well. Probably good when I get the supra back(this one is a step up from my previous one says Mikhail, If not Ill send it to him and get those uber caps in the output or power supply).

 The treble is definately more emphisised on the zu thus far.

 If the red dragon improves it slightly, it will be good enough Id say(bass I mean), but the comment on the incredible bass with the equinox has me drooling. 

 Thanks again,
 k.s.


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## sacd lover

KShaft, you bought the SDS? If so, good buy. Tom's is great. I thought about it but with a four year old and two nosey cats I didnt want flesh hanging from the tubes.


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## KShaft

hehe. I can understand. I keep my nephews away from it passionately(supra and cary when I had it). 
 I bought immtbikers and talked to Mikhail about it. I was going to buy a new supra prototype thats built up to high heaven. He said Immtbikers is close, and a step above my old supra. I thought my old one too tubey.

 Well see how it goes!
 k.s.


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## Tuberoller

I have recently been playing with all the cables with the HD650 and there are some very disctinct differences.

 The Moon Audio Silver Dragon almost completely transforms these phones. They sound expansive and have great tonality. Everything that I like about these phones is enhanced and most of the things I did'nt like are pretty much banished. This is still the cable to beat and is the cable I dare any cable skeptic to try.

 The Equinox is nearly as good with great dynamics and even better balance. The great balancing act the Equinox performs on the HD600 is better still with the HD650. Bass is tightened nicely and treble and midrange are brought into the proper perspective. 

 The Mobius is fantastic as well and has killer bass. The bass with these phones and this cable combo may be the best headphone bass there is. Use this cable with one of the great solid state amps and feel the beat. Treble is still a bit more hairy than I like but it's not bad. The midrange is very good and voices are very realistic.


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## Anders

I second that the Mobius is fantastic with HD650 but have only compared to stock cable. For those who may be interested, I have written down some early impressions in the "I've got the HD650" thread (under Headphones).


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## KShaft

My experience is much different. The zu is weaker than the stock cord right now on my 650s. The 650s have about 200 hours on them and the zu about 100. Its not the fabled "tighter yet not as strong" "worse" the stock cable goes lower and is just as tight and louder.

 I need the supra Im getting soon to see what will be best. It might change the tonality amongst other things.

 Im probably gonna try the equinox as well side by side. 

 Im continuing to break in the mobius with some Ray Bryant trio
 cuts so it should be more than ready when the supra gets here.

 Post comparisons (short) soon.

 p.s. Thanks for the impressions Tubes and Anders!

 k.s.


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## kentamcolin

Thanks for such an awesome review Tuberoller. I ordered a 15' Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable for my soon to arrive HD650's. I'm also going to try Moon's Silver Dragon speaker cable as well. Can't wait!!!!!


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## radrd

This really should be in the "featured reviews" section of this forum...


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## vrao81

Just curious, Tuberoller (or anyone else), why don't you like the Cardas cable? Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to the Moon Audio Blue Dragon?


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## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by vrao81 _
*Just curious, Tuberoller (or anyone else), why don't you like the Cardas cable? Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to the Moon Audio Blue Dragon? * 
 

Tuberoller seemed to kind of touch on why he doesn't like it in the review:

_I'm still trying to find a way to enjoy the Cardas cable in my system. It always seems to sound pretty good when I hear it in other systems and at the meets but it just lets me down at home. The Treble extension can only be called fair and the midrange seems a mile away compared to the Equinox,Silver Dragon and Mobius. It has good bass but it suffers from mediocre extension. It has very good seperation of instruments throughout the entire frequency and this is why I think most people like it so much and why it sounds good at shows._ 

 I once owned the Cardas but traded it for the Equinox and personally much prefer the Equinox. The Cardas is a good cable but my impressions of it are very similar to what Tuberoller has described. The Equinox is more balanced, fuller and more refined sounding. Seems like it has deeper bass too, and a really smooth and a bit more forgiving treble.


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## KShaft

Okay.

 I have the equinox and mobius.

 Lets just say the mobius has reclaimed its former low freq reputation. Must have been the amp holding it back some how.

 Im gonna get a sacd mods ce-775 soon. Ill compare the two more in detail after it warms up for a day or so. It should get here tommarrow!

 k.s.


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## tom hankins

KShaft: Mine too. I sold the equinox and I'm keeping the Zu. I think mine just needed more hours on it. With the SDS and KenRad tubes the Zu had even to much bass. I'm back to three Sylvanias and I'm in headphone heaven. The highs have opened up also, this combo(Hd650/Zu) is a very good headphone pairing. The best headphone experience I've had so far. BTW, Hows the Singlepower amp?


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## KShaft

hehe. we spoke too soon I guess.


 This new amp is somewhat better. 

 Its more transparent and faster, and the bottom end sounds much more solid stateish(ie tight and and impactful).

 Im using a dv-09 as a source right now, I think the moded ce-775
 will be somewhat better in all areas.

 Right now, the midrange is a bit harry, Just as Tuberoller describes it, a little foreward and cold. The equinox has the better mids right now(tonality wise). I may try the moon audio cables too. Im trying to get a clearer picture of how they sound in comparison from Tuberoller. Ill see if he replies(I pmed him).
 But first Ill hook up the ce-775 and see how it goes.

 Too much bass? huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Im gonna try those ken rads now(ive got some hanging around...) right now im using rca grey glass vt-231 for a driver, and tubemanus 1952 sylvania navy 6sn7gt's.

 k.s.


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## stryker

Bump to ask if anyone else has comments on the Moon Audio or Zu cable since the last post on this thread. Or, do any of you previous posters have anything to add now that you have more hours on your cable? I'm still holding out for more opinions on either of these 2 new replacements.


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## tom hankins

I've got around 300 hours on the HD650/Zu cable combo and I'm 100% happy with the cable. It's much better than the Cardas or the Equinox IMO. I'm not looking any farther. I highly recomend the Zu cable!


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## mjg

Hi,

 I've owned the cardas cable, and now i'm working on breaking in my zu. What i can say immediatly is I concur with Tom and tuberoller about the much better build quality, and bass increase, as well as the midrange being opened up. They sound totally different, and I am not angry about how much I spent on the ZU. Though @200 they ar pricey, excellent cable, and complement my zu cable'd computer/dac setup pretty well ; )
 Highly recommended.


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## Edwood

The only thing I hate about the Zu is that it's so stiff and heavy. There seriously need to be shirt clip on this cable. Much like the Ety's. The Zu has a "collar" where one can be added. The Ety clip doen't fit, BTW.


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## Mindless

I've been reading this thread over and over a few times now and snapped up some impressions.

 Just for starters, whats Moonaudio's hompage? (cant seem to find it)

 And now to the point, how would Zu and Silver Dragon compare in sound vs. sound and price vs. price, would it be a hands down win for Zu because it's cheaper? or does the Silver Dragon beat the Zu? if so, in what aspects, as I want a cable with NICE clarity and good bass. The Zu seem to fit into the bass thing very well but how about it's clarity? does it lift the sound alot in violin symphonies and piano concerts, are the instruments that seem to 'fall behind' 'revealed' buy the cable (without having the 'perfect setup' (1 quadrillion dollar stuff)) ?

 Regards, Mindless.


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## tom hankins

I don't know how the Zu will sound with your gear, but in my system the sound is VERY clear,and clean.


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## Guild

http://www.moon-audio.com

 The Silver Dragon MAY be more expensive because it is entirely silver wire. Price,however, is never the final determination of performance.


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## Mindless

Actually they cost the same ($1 diff) Silver Dragon cost $200 and Mobius $199. My system would/will be Headsave Elite SL (with Neutric jack and some other improved stuff) out of my SB live into my HD600's. I want to get a cable now no matter if the sound gets worse or better, because I cant have big ammounts of money over long periods of time in my wallet (in my eyes refered to as : "The never endin' spendin' of money")

 Regards, Mindless.


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## Guild

First of all, just to be fair, the Mobius is (my mistake) more expensive that the Silver Dragon: for a 10' cable is $259 vs. $200.

 Secondly, the mention of a SB Live as a source with your amp and cans makes me go ACK!!!! (not a reference to the ack dack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.) Sure, a cable upgrade could be on the same level as a source upgrade, but the saying "garbage in, garbage out," is a fact. I have gone through four sources (SB Live being the first) and have seen a very significant improvement each and every time. $200 could surely be put to better use than a cable upgrade, unless you are also planning to upgrade your source soon. I'm sure others here would agree.

 Please don't take my comments as anything other than trying to help out a fellow head-fi'er.


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## Mindless

Yeah im thinking on getting a source upgrade, but I just dont have the patience to save up very much money. The SB live may make you go ACK! but it is actually really good. Anyhow, it's my wallet, I got no one to blame but myself if I make a stupid purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the Mobius costs $199 (special offer, for 10ft) and the Silver Dragon $200 for 10ft)


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## Axel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Mindless _
*And the Mobius costs $199 (special offer, for 10ft) * 
 

I think the Mobius $199 promo price is for 8ft - see http://www.zucable.com/


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## HanssoN

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Mindless _
*The SB live may make you go ACK! but it is actually really good. * 
 

The SB Live! is simply not very good... 
 The kx-drivers (or whatever they were called) make a HUGE difference though, and it was actually these drivers that made me realize how huge the differences between digital sources can be. (In my case the source was even the same, but the new drivers improved it much more than I could ever have imagined.)


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## dd3mon

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Mindless _
*Yeah im thinking on getting a source upgrade, but I just dont have the patience to save up very much money. The SB live may make you go ACK! but it is actually really good.* 
 

I have an SB Live, and I have 3 other sound cards all with substancially higher sound quality (M-Audio Revo, SB Audigy 1, SB Audigy 2). None of these are 'good' sources. Your money will be wasted on a cable until you get a better source.

 Will you notice a difference? probably. Will it be half the difference of a quality $400 cd player (music hall, nad, modded sony, etc)? not even close.

 -dd3mon


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## Edwood

I agree, $200 is better off being saved towards getting a better sound card/source.
 The RME digi96/8 PAD can be had for $262. You would hear a humongous difference in sound over just the headphone cable upgrade.

 Source first, cables second, IMO
 Of course it really is a vicious cycle. I upgraded my source, then my cables, then upgraded my source again. Now I want to upgrade my cables again....LOL

 -Ed


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## tortie

Yes, spend the money you have planned on cables for a better source. I had the SB live as a sound card before and it sounded good enough for me, until I tried a better source. 

 The jump in quality in changing sources (especially from a sound card to a CDP) is light years away from the improvements you would get in upgrading your cables.


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## SurroundGeek

Maybe this is a dumb question...is there a difference between the 600 and 650 stock cable?


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## Hajime

That's not a dumb question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is a difference between them. The HD600 cable is much thinner and is (in my opinion) of worse build quality than the HD650 cable. The HD650 cable also has new adapters to go into the headphones.


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## Edwood

Anyone tried the 650 stock cable with the 600?

 -Ed


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## SurroundGeek

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hajime _
*That's not a dumb question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is a difference between them. The HD600 cable is much thinner and is (in my opinion) of worse build quality than the HD650 cable. The HD650 cable also has new adapters to go into the headphones. * 
 

Will the 650 cable work with the HD600's?


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## pingles

I don't see why it wouldn't. I've just received my 2nd hand Stefan Audioart Equinox cable that was used by the original owner with her 600s and I'm now using it with my 650s.

 I would therefore imagine that if it fits my 650s it would also work in reverse.


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## tom hankins

The 650 stock cables fit into, and work well with the HD600. I can't offer any opinions because all I did was hook them up for a few minutes. The stock cables get pitched to the rear pretty quick here and I don't use them that much(if ever).


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## kentamcolin

I ordered Moon Audio Silver Dragon, over a month ago and still have no cable. I hope it's as good as it's supposed to be, but the wait is getting a bit long. I'm tempted to cancel the order and get the Zu.


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## SurroundGeek

Anyone here willing to do a 650/600 cable comparison connected to 600s and post their findings?


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## Peterg2

Quote:


 _Originally posted by SurroundGeek _
*Anyone here willing to do a 650/600 cable comparison connected to 600s and post their findings? * 
 

I too am *really* interested in this as well.

 Peter


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## Hajime

Quote:


 _Originally posted by SurroundGeek _
*Anyone here willing to do a 650/600 cable comparison connected to 600s and post their findings? * 
 

I could do it with the HD650. I don't have the HD600 anymore.


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## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by SurroundGeek _
*Anyone here willing to do a 650/600 cable comparison connected to 600s and post their findings? * 
 

When I first got my HD650's I still had my HD600's as well and did swap both stock cables on both sets of cans and found it really hard to hear any difference. If there was it was very subtle. If you go back and find some of those "Got my HD650's!!" threads there are others who compared the two stock cables if I am not mistaken. I'm forgetting who it was but there may have been one person who found there to be a bit of a discernable difference. One thing that was confirmed by Jan Meier, who was told by a Sennheiser employee, is that the stock HD650 cable is identical to the HD600 cable in terms of conductor materials and design with the only differences being the beefier plug area, heavier jacket and the termination is now 1/4" only and not a 1/8" with 1/4" adapter style. The stock HD650 cable is obviously more rugged and much more durable but I couldn't tell much difference between them in terms of sound. I was curious too but just couldn't hear much of a difference.


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## zeplin

i have already made the HD650 purchase and am now looking for the special Mobius Senn cable promo (the 2.5m for 199$), but i cannot find it on EBAY or on Zucable.com??????? did i miss the promo? please say i didn't!! does anyone know if they are still offering this great deal because i am set on Zu and that would really stink if i'd have to pay 45 extra bux
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanx.

 edit: my question has been answered by Hirsch in another thread. <wipes sweat from forehead>...i'm glad Zu is still offering the promo. man i'm an addict...as we all are
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looks like calling Zu will be the first thing i do tomorrow morning
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MAN, reading all these wonderful things about the Mobius posted by all you head-fiers whose opinions i very highly regard makes waiting for my new cans/cables to arrive all the more torturous


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## greenhorn

Anyone heard the Meier cable? If so, how does it sound?


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## Demolition

Quote:


 _Originally posted by greenhorn _
*Anyone heard the Meier cable? If so, how does it sound? * 
 

 Greenhorn,

 See this thread.

 D.


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## greenhorn

Thanks, Demolition!


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## DarkAngel

*Before people spend fortunes on all the cables (like me) don't overlook the easiest & cheapest way to radically change sound of Senn 580/600/650............replace foam oval behind ear cushion with another material.*

 The ear cushion is just friction fit and easily comes out with a couple tugs allowing you to remove foam oval. The foam really dramatically muffles sound and cuts treble energy.

 Two alternate materials I like are:

 -finest mesh plastic screen replacement, small roll under $5 (home improvement store by screen doors, screen windows)

 -black nylon stocking (womens dept)

 Use the foam oval as template and cut out oval shapes with scissors and place behind ear cushions, you will hear major difference! I am using fine plastic mesh screen with Senn 600/Cardas and it sounds much better to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There have been threads about this long ago, but this may be news to some newcomers here.


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## Anders K.

Deleted by poster, double posting


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## Anders K.

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Before people spend fortunes on all the cables (like me) don't overlook the easiest & cheapest way to radically change sound of Senn 580/600/650............replace foam oval behind ear cushion with another material.

 The ear cushion is just friction fit and easily comes out with a couple tugs allowing you to remove foam oval. The foam really dramatically muffles sound and cuts treble energy.

 Two alternate materials I like are:

 -finest mesh plastic screen replacement, small roll under $5 (home improvement store by screen doors, screen windows)

 -black nylon stocking (womens dept)

 Use the foam oval as template and cut out oval shapes with scissors and place behind ear cushions, you will hear major difference! I am using fine plastic mesh screen with Senn 600/Cardas and it sounds much better to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There have been threads about this long ago, but this may be news to some newcomers here. * 
 

Are these foam ovals a necessary? Speakers often sound better without the foam covering the baffle. What about leaving these ovals out?


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## Glassman

I think it's there just to protect membrane from the ear wax, or mechanical protection..


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## Anders K.

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Glassman _
*I think it's there just to protect membrane from the ear wax, or mechanical protection.. * 
 

Yes, ofcourse, sounds logic. I didn´t think of that


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Anders K. _
*Yes, ofcourse, sounds logic. I didn´t think of that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

I was just playing around with these again and found the "womens stocking" oval works better than plastic screen, gives smoother overall sound so this is now in my Senns 600 replacing the foam oval. The stock foam oval "dramatically" cuts treble energy/extension and muffles sound.......if you haven't tried this tweak before you haven't heard what Senn 600/580 can do. If you agree that Senn 600 with any cable upgrade is still a bit dark sounding just replace foam oval with women's stocking oval, whole new sound.

 There have been threads about this long ago, I feel this "lost art" needs to be brought up again. Right now I would have to say for me the "modified" Senn 600/Cardas is more revealing of fine detail vs new Senn 650/Zu Mobius with stock foam oval.

 If I had more time I would go to fabric store and get other cloths with similar sheerness to womens stockings to try out and maybe have two or three alternatives to foam oval.........very cheap tweak to try out.


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## Jazz1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*snip

 Right now I would have to say for me the "modified" Senn 600/Cardas is more revealing of fine detail vs new Senn 650/Zu Mobius with stock foam oval. * 
 

Ah, but then the question must be asked, "How do the Senn 650's sound with your mod. and a Zu?


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Jazz1 _
*Ah, but then the question must be asked, "How do the Senn 650's sound with your mod. and a Zu? * 
 

I will eventually have to try that out myself..........but I suspect "stocking" will pass too much treble energy and become bright sounding since the Senn 650/Zu already has more treble energy vs Senn 600/Cardas when both use foam oval. Will have to find some different material to use with Senn 650/Zu or just leave as is, it really sounds dam good with no tweaking. 

 This tweak just gives you a tool to adjust treble energy/detail to your own personal tastes with Senn 600/580.


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## Jazz1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*I will eventually have to try that out myself..........but I suspect "stocking" will pass too much treble energy and become bright sounding since the Senn 650/Zu already has more treble energy vs Senn 600/Cardas when both use foam oval. Will have to find some different material to use with Senn 650/Zu or just leave as is, it really sounds dam good with no tweaking. 

 This tweak just gives you a tool to adjust treble energy/detail to your own personal tastes with Senn 600/580. * 
 

Well at least now we can have an alibi when ours spouses find a black stocking in the car


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## grkn

using nothing at all would be ideal then wouldn't it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hehe.

 What about removing the plastic in front of the element? The protector or what it is.


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## Juergen

[


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## stryker

I ripped the foam when I took it out and have had the 600s "nude" for the past 8 months. Sounds okay to me. However, when I tried the 650s at Hirsch's meet a few weeks ago, I could definitely tell the difference. 

 Highs were a little sparklier and the presentation was a bit more forward than my nude 600s. I liked what I heard, I think. Still, it wasn't enough for me to shell out the big bucks for the 650s, at least not yet. Also, I'll be getting the Oehlbach this week. Impressions to follow on that one.


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## grkn

what about the plastic ring in front of the element?


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## stryker

All that is gone is the foam, not the padded earcups or any of the housing.


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## rhythmdevils

Great review, by the way. I am excited to hear the kind of difference it makes with my hd600's. But the prices are too much for me. Would anyone like to sell one (any type) of these cables? In particular the Equinox, Zu, or Silver or Blue Dragon, but any of them would be a big improvement. you can email me at rhythmdevils@yahoo.com

 I had another seperate question. How do all think these top of the line sennheisers compare with the grado rs series?


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## tiberian

go to headphones forum and do a search. for the cables go the FS/FT forum and post a wtb thread.


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## mjg

wow, who's been grave digging, this thread is so oooold.


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## zool

I never liked the stocking mod. It just makes them sound thinner imo. However I would imagine that K501 fans would enjoy this mod.


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