# Anyone seen this? Shunyata DIY <100$ Power Conditoner



## MikeW

Im rather apalled, but not surprized that a relativly well known(amongst audiophiles) company like Shunyanta would have such insane ridiculous markups. You know this **** cost them less then 50$ to build when economies of scale come in. Unbelieveable.... Shunyanta is nothing more then a few high quality outlets a couple off the shelf 2$ noise suppression capacitors and a varistor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Reminds me of the great value that is Grado RA1 2$ of electornics in a 3$ wood box. With a 3000% markup

http://www.10audio.com/diy_power_conditioner.htm


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## ooheadsoo

Not surprised at all. Audio is a great market for the business inclined.


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## Wodgy

Yup, not surprising at all. Welcome to "high end" audio.


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## riffer

Some of them are just hollowed out blocks of wood with a nice case. At least Shunyata put $100 of parts in it with the $3000 case
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit - Oops, wrong model. The model he copied is about $700


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## saint.panda

The deciding factor is the design and unless there are diy designs available, I suppose you'll have to go for what's commercially available.

 I think the only reason how there can be a bigger diversity and number of hifi companies than in probably any other and much bigger electronics branches is solely due to the immense profit margin. Doesn't mean that audio is easy money but neither is it good value for the consumer. Everytime I go to a hifi-expo, I'm first of all surprised by the sheer number of hifi suppliers and secondly by how crappy most of the gear sounds in relation to the price. You can fare so much better with diy or even pro audio gear. I find it strange that most audio mags hardly mention diy or pro audio stuff. Makes you wonder who the articles are written for.


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## ooheadsoo

There's diy for everything out there. And there are 3000% markups for those not diy inclined. On the down side, you can't hardly sell any diy gear.


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## AlanY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saint.panda* 
_The deciding factor is the design and unless there are diy designs available, I suppose you'll have to go for what's commercially available._

 

The DIY versus not DIY thing is not really the point here. The Shunyata power conditioners are just as simple as (relatively) cheap Monster power conditioners, yet sell for much more. That's the "shocking" thing to some people. How the same exact thing can sell for seven to ten times more if it has some funky name and markets to the audiophile crowd rather than the home theatre crowd.


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## ooheadsoo

Monster's pc power conditioner and ht power conditioner sell for some few hundred dollars difference but are the exact same product with different stickers, for example. No surprise.


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## saint.panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AlanY* 
_The DIY versus not DIY thing is not really the point here. The Shunyata power conditioners are just as simple as (relatively) cheap Monster power conditioners, yet sell for much more. That's the "shocking" thing to some people. How the same exact thing can sell for seven to ten times more if it has some funky name and markets to the audiophile crowd rather than the home theatre crowd._

 

Yes, you're right. I was trying to touch that point in the second part of my post with regards pro audio gear, which is often the same or a very similar product as the audiophile counterparts but without the marketing, fancy packaging, etc.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ooheadsoo* 
_There's diy for everything out there. And there are 3000% markups for those not diy inclined. On the down side, you can't hardly sell any diy gear._

 

And you have to spends lots of hours for research and to acquire the necessary skills, or know people who have them.


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## LFF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* 
_http://www.10audio.com/diy_power_conditioner.htm_

 

Damn. I wish I had the skills and time to do these projects. It would save me so much $$$ in the long run.


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## MikeW

I refuse to purchase anything from Shunyata now, I dont' care how great it sounds. I'd rather use a 200$ APC unit like the H15 or H10, It may not sound as good but at least im not getting violated. Even used ps audio gear is a better value. I wonder how BPT's stuff stacks up from a value perspective. At least there's somthing in the damn box. ( a big ass transformer)


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## markl

Quote:


 Monster's pc power conditioner and ht power conditioner sell for some few hundred dollars difference but are the exact same product with different stickers, for example. No surprise. 
 

 Quote:


 The Shunyata power conditioners are just as simple as (relatively) cheap Monster power conditioners, yet sell for much more. 
 

What are these statements based on? You can look inside the Monster units at your local Best Buy, they always have those display models with the clear tops. They don't look anything alike. I see a lot more "stuff" inside the Monster units (transformers, circuit boards, etc.) than I do inside the Shunyata.


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## mshan

http://www.shunyata.com/modeldriver.aspx?navitemid=2362


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## dmichael

I don't use any power conditioners at all since the manufacturer of most of my home gear (Ayre) recommends against it for their products, they claim everything sounds better plugged straight into the wall, and I have verified this to be true. That said, if your in need of a power conditioner, are you looking to buy a bunch of expensive parts neatly arranged in a beautiful case - OR - are you looking for a superior technology??? Would you base your buying decision on which product has a better ratio of parts cost to retail price, or would you buy the one that sounds better at a given price point?

 IMHO a lot of money goes into R&D which can be more costly than the parts and labor to manufacture. Part of the R&D process includes discovery of a technology that can clean up your sound using a limited amount of labor and inexpensive parts. It has to be, otherwise the Hydra will have a price tag of $10,000 and not enough customers will be able to buy it to cover the R&D let alone make a profit.

 I agree that some "high-end" companies out there are not spending on parts or R&D and are trying to put one over on consumers, but those are the companies that don't last very long.

 I don't work in this industry, and I don't own any shunyata products, but I've A-B'd the Hydra and it made a significant difference in the system I heard it in(not mine).


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## skyskraper

the problem with that is the configuration used (a couple of caps and a varistor) is hardly ground breaking or unique. its a fairly commonplace arrangement in many things and has been for many years. 

 now they may claim that theyve r&d'd the setup to find the most "musical" (the most intangible of intangible's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) configuration but really, even if you did do that you'd spend a few hundred bucks on various parts (AT MOST) and a bit of time swapping stuff around. 

 high end audio is a gold mine for scam artists, its all completely legal too which is the best (or worst) part! think about how many other site's out there use non specific terms or big technical circular explanations or proprietery catch phrases or lots of descriptives without a huge deal of empirical support of their claims, shunyata are far from being an isolated case. 

 i'll stop at the risk of offending people who may not have the same point of view as me, but just remember that if claims can't be backed up (relatively) objectively or if things can't be explained in a clear and simple manner (if you enquire about them) you should probably be a bit more careful then you would normally.


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## riffer

Let's not single out Shunyata just because the guy had one and decided to open it up - do we know what is inside some of the others - e.g. Isoclean, Furutech, etc?

 The PS Audio stuff is expensive, but it does provide surge protection, and there is some "meat" inside.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* 
_Im rather apalled, but not surprized that a relativly well known(amongst audiophiles) company like Shunyanta would have such insane ridiculous markups. You know this **** cost them less then 50$ to build when economies of scale come in. Unbelieveable.... Shunyanta is nothing more then a few high quality outlets a couple off the shelf 2$ noise suppression capacitors and a varistor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Reminds me of the great value that is Grado RA1 2$ of electornics in a 3$ wood box. With a 3000% markup

http://www.10audio.com/diy_power_conditioner.htm_

 

*Let's not get carried away.....*
 The unit made by DIY guy* is not* equal to Shunyata Hydra 4. The custom designed silver cryo Venom outlets are far superior and better sounding than the cheapies used in DIY unit.....plus the DIY electronic parts only partially approximate what he thinks is all in 7 element venom filter.

 Notice in summation DIY builder cannot say his sounds equal or better than Hyda.........only "close" and what does that mean? Could mean anything really.

 That said like anything audiophile *custom designed* and sold in *small quanities* the retail cost of unit is always much more than cost of actual parts, please be realistic. Shunyata makes great product, but there are cheaper alternatives for those on a budget.


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## PATB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mshan* 
_http://www.shunyata.com/modeldriver.aspx?navitemid=2362_

 

Let me get this straight, so a DIYer can get the exact same parts shown and disclosed in the Shunyata link posted by mshan?


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## MikeW

Yeah, pretty much.


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## shplorgh

Odd, it doesn't exactly look like this:


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## riffer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hungrych* 
_Odd, it doesn't exactly look like this:









_

 

That's not the model he copied.

 The top three photos in the article are pictures of the Shunyata Hydra 4, which goes for $700 or so?


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## shplorgh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riffer* 
_That's not the model he copied.

 The top three photos in the article are pictures of the Shunyata Hydra 4, which goes for $700 or so?_

 

That is the Hydra 4.

 And I do realize that it's the same parts, just odd that they'd have something so different looking in the pic from what it actually is.


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## JerryS

Thanks to MikeW for sending me an email about this thread. I was also surprised that there was not more technology involved in the Shunyata product. But what surprised me much more was the language they use in their advertising, language that mentioned features that simply were not present in the product.

 Economies of scale are not available for low-volume products, where a production run is less than 1,000 units. Typically, a manufacturer must sell at 5 times their raw parts cost. Then the retailer or dealer adds 40 to 50% to cover their costs and profits. So a $100 box of parts would easily have a retail price of $750 or even more. A $2 capacitor becomes a $15 part in a finished product. That's where DIY comes in, if we don't get electrocuted building the things.

 There is another angle to high end audio. Many people feel they must spend a lot of money for good sound, and the more they spend, they better it must sound. I have seen many manufacturers offer their new product at reasonable, low prices. Sales are very slow. Then they raise the price 2 to 5 times the original price. Sales take off like a rocket. Go figure.

 Happy listening.

 Regards,
 JerryS
www.10Audio.com


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## eyeteeth

Thanks MikeW for the questioning & digging. Thanks JerryS for the post and especially the review site, which I enjoy reading (I'd been waiting awhile for this projected DIY project to arrive). 

 Keep up the good work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MikeF


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## JerryS

DarkAngel said:
			
		

> Let's not get carried away.....
> Notice in summation DIY builder cannot say his sounds equal or better than Hyda.........only "close" and what does that mean? Could mean anything really.
> 
> 
> ...


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## riffer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hungrych* 
_That is the Hydra 4.

 And I do realize that it's the same parts, just odd that they'd have something so different looking in the pic from what it actually is._

 

Your right - I got fooled by the pic too.

 It is the same thing - Take the picture and turn it on it's side. It's the same except for some slightly different wiring.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_*Let's not get carried away.....*
 The unit made by DIY guy* is not* equal to Shunyata Hydra 4. The custom designed silver cryo Venom outlets are far superior and better sounding than the cheapies used in DIY unit....._

 

"Far superior" is unlikely, especially since you haven't done a listening comparison between the guy's DIY version and the Shunyata version. Slightly superior, maybe, if you believe dunking outlets in liquid nitrogen improves their sound. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Shunyata outlets aren't even cryoed.


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## MikeW

So.. what DIYer out there wants to write a detailed guide and parts list ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Im to chicken to try this without detailed instructions.

 Seriously though would it be illegal to copy this design and sell it? I don't understand all this overhead, why coudlent a DIYer build these things in his spare time with quality parts/workmanship and sell them on Ebay for oh, say 300$. If it's a of similiar sound quality to a real hydra then you wouldent even have to advertise it, it would spread though word of mouth rather rapidly what a great value it was. To keep it simple, don't even offer to take orders on them, just make them at your own pace and sell them on ebay at your own leisure. This is what gets people like Norm@Govibe in trouble(victim of own sucess).. don't even accept orders, just build em and sell them on ebay. You might even make more money this way. If it violates some patent law, woudlent it be easy enough to change 1 or 2 components around to bypass this.


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## Todd R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hungrych* 
_That is the Hydra 4.

 And I do realize that it's the same parts, just odd that they'd have something so different looking in the pic from what it actually is._

 

I had the same questions about why the pictures look different from what the 10audio site shows, and what my unit has. I really wanted to know since I own a Hydra 6. 

 Instead of speculating and assuming about what might be, I decided to go to the source. I E-Mailed the engineer, Grant at Shunyata. 

 He told me 
_We made the change to the boards depicted on our web 6-8 months ago._ Mine is over a year old. 

 Now we know... 

 I invited him to post a reply to this board explaining the questions asked in this thread. He said he may consider it, however he has already responded to a similar post at the Audio Asylum. 
 You should read Grant's reply. 

 He also took time out of his day to call me this evening and we has a nice long talk. 
 After speaking with him I am no longer upset. He has explained what goes into making the products, and why the costs are where they're at. 

 Regardless of the cost or what's inside it, it *is* one of the better PLC's I've ever owned. Many professionals in the music business seem agree.
 TR


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## markl

Quote:


 Seriously though would it be illegal to copy this design and sell it? 
 

 Yes!


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* 
_So.. what DIYer out there wants to write a detailed guide and parts list ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Im to chicken to try this without detailed instructions._

 

See John Risch's DIY power filter instructions here:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm
 This is exactly the same type of thing as the Shunyata unit, with the addition of inductors for RFI filtering. If you don't want that (if you believe that inductors are evil or "choke" the sound), leave them out. If you want exactly the same thing as the Shunyata unit, referring to both web pages will make it easy to duplicate the Shunyata unit.

 If you want an easy, premade PCB for this kind of power filter, go here:
http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=536
 DIYcable also used to sell prebuilt metal enclosures, not sure if they still do. If you're interested in that sort of thing, email Kevin, the owner. They certainly stock all the rest of the parts you'll need, including Pass&Seymour outlets. If you insist on cryoed outlets, there are plenty of places that will sell those to you as well.

  Quote:


 Seriously though would it be illegal to copy this design and sell it? I don't understand all this overhead, why coudlent a DIYer build these things in his spare time with quality parts/workmanship and sell them on Ebay for oh, say 300$. 
 

It is not illegal to reverse engineer and copy a design, but that's all I'm going to say on this matter. It's been discussed to death in many threads in the DIY forum and Head-Fi has a policy that forbids discussions of cloning commercial units in order not to irritate the sponsors. I'd suggest you not say anything more about this either, or this thread risks being closed.


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## saint.panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* 
_So.. what DIYer out there wants to write a detailed guide and parts list ? Im to chicken to try this without detailed instructions._

 

If you want to build a line conditioner [edit]as pointed out by Wodgy in the post above[/edit] or have balanced power, you could look at the Jon Risch DIY designs. These have a good reputation on audioasylum for instance. Link

 If you want to go for a DIY kit, ServingInEcuador used to endorse the Transcendent Power Supply (over the Shunyata Hydra-8). It's not pretty but this unit will also give you balanced power like the more expensive Equitech and BPT models do. For a general faq on balanced power, link.

 Or according to my personal audio guru, you can just take a 1kW transformer (a fairly simple one with one primary coil like the ones that convert 110V into 220V), turn it on and plug it into the same power strip where the rest of your rig is connected to (or any other outlet as long as it's in parallel with your audio rig). It will use up one or two watts idle power and apparently serves as a "Gleichstromsenke", which I don't know how to translate into English, perhaps something like "DC drain".


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## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* 
_"Far superior" is unlikely, especially since you haven't done a listening comparison between the guy's DIY version and the Shunyata version. Slightly superior, maybe, if you believe dunking outlets in liquid nitrogen improves their sound. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Shunyata outlets aren't even cryoed._

 

My sentiments. "Far superior?"


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## MikeW

sounds like that blue circle thingy on audiogon, I was also intrigued by the Trancendant balanced power kit, but it's honestly not gonna be much cheaper then a 679$ BP-1, once you get a good power cord, and good power strip to plug into it. Niether the BPT1 or Trancendant seem to offer isolation either. It looks like if I want Isolation and Balanced power i'd have to get a BPT-3, or multiple balanced conditoners, or forgo the Balanced and get somthing like PS Audio UPC-200, APC H15, etc. I don't like the idea of transformers messing with audio though. I want transformerless Balanced power! 

 im honestly getting quite fatigued with this whole thing, im about ready to put names in a hat and draw

 edit: thanks for the DIY links! im gonna look into that. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saint.panda* 
_Or according to my personal audio guru, you can just take a 1kW transformer (a fairly simple one with one primary coil like the ones that convert 110V into 220V), turn it on and plug it into the same power strip where the rest of your rig is connected to (or any other outlet as long as it's in parallel with your audio rig). It will use up one or two watts idle power and apparently serves as a "Gleichstromsenke", which I don't know how to translate into English, perhaps something like "DC drain"._


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## saint.panda

I don't know the Blue Circle thing but I'll take a guess that it's more expensive than the $40-50 transformer. Once I have money again, I'll need to try this out myself. According to my acquaintance who, with friends (one of them owns a hifi store), tested a bunch of expensive power conditioners and regenerators, the transformer trick yielded one of the best results.

 But perhaps you shouldn't worry too much about power. I think a source or amp upgrade would generate a more palpable impact.


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## MikeW

Source upgrade is on the way, and despite popular opinion around here, I have a feeling it will have no problem hanging with the likes of Bel Canto 2, Dac1, and DA10 ~ as for amp upgrade.. are you nuts? i just bought this last month. It's pretty high end too, don't let the millet aspect fool you, with the Headroom Home module, Dedicated Power Supply and Stepped Attenuator it's a serious amp.


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## saint.panda

Didn't mean to attack your gear. I only skimmed quickly through your profile and thought that a line conditioner would most likely cost more than the Analogue II dac or a Millet hybrid under normal circumstances.


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## MikeW

Yeah I agree with you on the Dac, it is a great value dac that i've enjoyed very much and it's definatly a bargain, but it's not in the same league with the rest of my gear. Wouldent it be funny if I like it over the incoming VDA2 hehe. I'd agree with you about the millet too if it was a standard 150$ DIY job, but it's a notch or two up from that, not that those are bad. I've been trying to "Finish" my system slowly, power is the last great bottleneck! or is it? who knows this audiophile insanity never stops.


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## MikeW

Hey check this out, it looks similiar.. wonder how it sounds. Check out the guts in the first link. Wouldent be surprized if it competes with the shunyata.. 299$ too, vs what is it ? 995 for the Hydra $ix

http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=2723

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/b...rcle_bc606.htm


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* 
_"Far superior" is unlikely, especially since you haven't done a listening comparison between the guy's DIY version and the Shunyata version. Slightly superior, maybe, if you believe dunking outlets in liquid nitrogen improves their sound. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Shunyata outlets aren't even cryoed._

 

If you read Venom product info differences are more than cryo treatment done in house at Shunyata, outlet is custom design for Shunyata not stock outlet.

 My comment of "far superior" was referring to materials used and custom design of venom outlet not sound itself......but I do think venoms will sound better than stock hubbel outlets used in DIY from my experience using different wall outlets at home on dedicated audio circuit, outlets are an important part of passive conditioner design......

 Agree with *Todd R* as to quality and effectiveness of Hydra 4 or 6 passive conditoners, but they are expensive for typical headphone set-up and sell for little discount used. Better option for many is probably PS Audio UPC200 for $300 used at Audiogon.


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## Oski

I don't know...this DIY vs. commercial product comparison is akin to going to a fine restaurant and complaining that the $40 entree you just ordered consisted of only $10 worth of ingredients.

 The chef had to come up with the recipe and then it’s the level of preparation and presentation. Then they have to pay the rent and staff and…gads, even make a profit? Sure, if you can do it in your own kitchen, by all means do so.


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Todd R* 
_I invited him to post a reply to this board explaining the questions asked in this thread. He said he may consider it, however he has already responded to a similar post at the Audio Asylum. 
 You should read Grant's reply. 

 He has explained what goes into making the products, and why the costs are where they're at. 

 Regardless of the cost or what's inside it, it *is* one of the better PLC's I've ever owned.[/URL]
 TR_

 

There doesn't seem to be any meaningful disagreement between anyone about the costs of manufacturing and price or about performance. Grant seems the less gracious in comment though with things like "but hey, *why let what may or not be true stop you when your driven to expose* and call a legitimate company's product descriptions "BS"." JerryS seems more fair ending his article with "I found that similar performance to a $700 manufactured product could be obtained for an expense of roughly $100 and some time and effort. The downside is that the "DIY Hydra" has a resale value of effectively zero.*The well-reviewed - and deservedly so - Shunyata Hydra 4* will retain its value far better." If I'm being unfair in my selection of quotes, go pick your own. 

 Where's the offense to anyone who has encountered the acronym DIY before? Uh yeah, it's way less expensive. Stereophile pops the top and describes what's inside all the time; in the Feb 2006 issue Michael Fremer says of the Jasmine Audio LP2.0 MM/MC phono preamlifier "The LP2.0 appeared to be extremely well built-until I opened it up and looked inside. There's not much to the power-supply and preamp sections. Given what it costs to to build something like this in China, the Jasmine's $1500 price came as a shock. Ray Samuels Audio sells it's superbly built, outstanding-sounding Emmeline XR-2 phono preamp for $1050, and it's made in the US. Had the LP2.0 sounded very good, $1500 would have been a fair price, but the sound was just plain blah."

 Of the seven reviews, available online including Stereophile's, of the Hydra boxes none looked inside. Or maybe they did but chose not to report?

 It's all a tempest in a teapot for me as I know and am not offended by pricing. I know DIY is cheaper and especially I know I'm getting far greater value from amplifiers, sources and speakers than from interconnects and power conditioners. I have available to me DIY, Shunyata (I'm a user), writings from 10audio and Stereophile-life is good for this music lover.


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## AlanY

You guys are missing the point again. This isn't about DIY versus commercial products. (There is never any valid basis for price comparison between DIY and commercial products anyway, really.) The "shocking" thing for some people is that the Shunyata units are the same as the cheapest units from Monster and other *commercial competitors*, yet sell for much more because they have a funky name and are marketed towards audiophiles.

 Another way of looking at it is this: the Shunyata unit is absolutely the simplest possible power conditioner, with just two capacitors and a varistor for surge protection. Yet it sells for a super-premium price, as if you're somehow getting something extraordinary, when in reality you could get the same thing at Radio Shack for $30. The selling price of the Shunyata gear rests almost entirely on marketing and perception, not construction relative to competitors or some other concrete measure.

 The way I see it, if you like the idea of things like pixie dust-sprinkled "Venom outlets", by all means buy the Shunyata gear. The pride of owning such gadgets may be worth the extra several hundred dollars. If you're the type of person who prefers to buy on the basis of construction and equivalent performance, just buy the cheapest product from any number of commercial competitors. (And indeed, to get something equivalent to the Shunyata unit, you do have to buy the cheapest units from Monster and Radio Shack. Their higher end units have inductors and other additional, more expensive components.)


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## eyeteeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AlanY* 
_You guys are missing the point again._

 

OK radioshack guy. Thanks for lighting the true way.


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## AlanY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eyeteeth* 
_OK radioshack guy. Thanks for lighting the true way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem, pixie-dust man.


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## Tachikoma

Quote:


 There is another angle to high end audio. Many people feel they must spend a lot of money for good sound, and the more they spend, they better it must sound. I have seen many manufacturers offer their new product at reasonable, low prices. Sales are very slow. Then they raise the price 2 to 5 times the original price. Sales take off like a rocket. Go figure. 
 

I don't see how the T-amp's sales could ever have taken off had it costed $100 instead of $25.


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## mulveling

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tachikoma* 
_I don't see how the T-amp's sales could ever have taken off had it costed $100 instead of $25._

 

The T-amp is not high end audio, at least pricewise. At $25, for many people (audiophile or not) it's well below the threshhold for impulse purchase. Choosing between a $400 and $800 power conditioner is something else entirely


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## Tachikoma

Imagine how shunyata's sales would have taken off had they been selling that $700 conditioner for $150


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## markl

Quote:


 The "shocking" thing for some people is that the Shunyata units are the same as the cheapest units from Monster and other commercial competitors, 
 

 Once again, who says they are the *same*??? Yeah, they may both be power conditioners, but it's like arguing that the HD650 is over-priced, when after all I got headphones with my iPod for FREE!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Apples and oranges.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markl* 
_Once again, who says they are the *same*??? Yeah, they may both be power conditioners, but it's like arguing that the HD650 is over-priced, when after all I got headphones with my iPod for FREE!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Apples and oranges._

 

People are saying they're the same because the internal construction (two capacitors and a varistor for surge protection -- the basic ingredients of a power conditioner) is identical. Identical construction is a fairly safe definition of "same." 

 Of course people will try to justify that the Shunyata outlet is somehow better. Magic quality capacitors. Special cryoed Venom outlets. Special recipe wire. All that may be true. If those things matter to a person, then Shunyata isn't such a bad choice (or DIY, where you can use whatever magic caps, outlets, and wire you prefer). However, do realize that's what you're paying the money for -- the marketing and the magic ingredients -- not the actual circuit. This isn't akin to your Sennheiser versus Apple Earbuds at all, since those are not even close in construction. A better analogy would be the HD580 versus HD600. Even that analogy probably overplays the difference between the Shunyata unit and a cheap power conditioner.

 Incidentally, I've noticed Shunyata has stopped selling their "magic dust" product that you were supposed to sprinkle over your gear. What's up with that? Anyone know why they stopped selling it?


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## markl

Did I miss the link with pics that show the Monsters are the same as the Shunyata? Which model are we talking about? If you go to your local Best Buy and look inside the glass top of the Monster units, you can see they look nothing like the Shunyata. In fact, there's a lot more "stuff" in them than the Shunyata, at lower prices in many cases.


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## Welly Wu

I am interested in the Shunyata Hydra Model 4, have any Head-Fi members compared Shunyata against Balanced Power Technologies?


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