# Lake People G109 / G103 thread



## devhen

Hey guys. Post your reviews/thoughts/comparisons of the Lake People G109 and G103 here.
  
 Thanks!
  
  
Lake People G109 There are two versions, the only difference being the inputs:
  
*G109-S* Unbalanced RCA inputs only ~ $450 USD
*G109-P* Unbalanced RCA inputs and Balanced XLR inputs ~ $500 USD
  

  
  

The PHONE-AMP G109 was developped with the
 target to enable highest transmission quality for
 low- , medium- and high-impedance headphones.
 Some features:
 - Electronically balanced inputs
 - Unbalanced inputs with priority
 - DC coupled amplifiers (switchable)
 - PRE-GAIN: Overall gain switchable in 3 steps
 - NF trammission band exceeds 150 kHz (-3dB)
 - High-grade volume control ALPS RK 27 with
   optimized channel balance and lowest crosstalk
 - Toroidal transformer, large smoothing capacitors
 - Discrete amplifier design
 - Outputs with relais controlled switch-on delay

 The inputs are situated on the rear panel, they are
 equipped with electronically balanced XLR connectors
 and unbalanced RCA connectors.
 Volume control is provided by a large full metal
 rotary knob. Two headphones may be connected
 via 1/4" jacks on the front panel.
 The unit offers a built-in power supply with IEC/CEE
 socket.
 The complete case, front and back panels are made
 of black anodizes aluminium. 
  
 *Technical Data*

 Balanced inputs:2 x XLR (L / R) *[G109-P only]* Unbalanced inputs:2 x Cinch (L / R) with priority Impedance:10 kohms Amplifier Channels:2 (Stereo) Nom. input level:+ 6 dBu Amplifier Gain:+8 dB ... with PRE-GAIN:-4 / +8 / +14 dB Frequency range:0 Hz ... 150 kHz (-3 dB) Slew Rate:> 8V / usec Dynamic range:> 129 dB (A-wtd) Noise:< -101 dBu (A-wtd) THD+N:< -100 dB @ 10V in 100 Ohms (1W)
 < -100 dB @ 18V in 600 Ohms (5W) Crosstalk:< -110 / -100 dB (@ 1 / 15 kHz) Max. output level:> 18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW  > 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW  > 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW  > 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW  > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW Outputs:2 x 1/4" phone jacks Power supply:230 / 115 V AC 8 VA Dimensions:168 x 49 x 145 mm (W x H x D) Case Material:Black anodized aluminium
  
  
http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g109s
http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g109p
  
  
Lake People G103 There are two versions, the only difference being the inputs:
  
*G103-S* Unbalanced RCA inputs only ~ $250 USD
*G103-P* Balanced XLR inputs only ~ $300 USD
  
  

  
  

Headphones amplifier with highest transmission quality
 and compact dimensions to drive 2 headphones.
 The PHONE-AMP G93 is optimized to lowest noise and
 distortion.
 The featurs:
 - electronically balanced inputs
 - four gains switchable: -4 / +2 / +8 / +14 dB
 - NF trammission band exceeds 150 kHz (-3dB)
 - Alps volume control with good channel balance
 and low crosstalk
 - powerful amplifiers

 Because of ist variable gain structure G103 is best
 suited to drive low- to high impedance headphones
 (16 … 600 Ohm)
 The inputs are situated on the rearpanel, they are
 equipped with electronically balanced XLR
 connectors. A rotary pot on the frontpanel is provided
 for level control. G103 is equipped with two
 headphones outputs with 1/4" jacks.
 The unit offers a built-in power supply with IEC/CEE
 socket.
 The complete case, front and back panels are made
 of black anodizes aluminium.

  
 *Technical Data*

  Balanced inputs:
 Unbalanced inputs:
 2 x XLR (L / R) *[G103-P only]*
 2 x Cinch (L / R) with priority *[G103-S only]*
 Impedance:10 kohms Amplifier Channels:2 (Stereo) Nom. input level:+ 6 dBu Gain:-4 / +2 / +8 / +14 dB, selectable Frequency range:5 Hz ... 150 kHz (-3 dB) Dynamic range:> 125 dB (A-wtd) Noise:< -98 dBu (A-wtd) THD+N:< 0,002 % (800mW / 100R) Crosstalk:< -70 dB (@ 15 kHz) Max. output level:> 17.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 530 mW  > 16.0 Veff in 300 ohms = 850 mW  > 13.7 Veff in 200 ohms = 940 mW  > 7.5 Veff in 50 ohms = 1130 mW  > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 890 mW Outputs:2 x 1/4" phone jacks Power supply:115 / 230 VAC / 8 VA Case Dimensions:108 x 49 x 145 mm (W x H x D) Case Material:black anodized Aluminium
  
  
http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g103s
http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g103p
  
  
G109-S Unboxing I received my Lake People G109-S yesterday via UPS Express Saver International from Germany. It arrived just 48 hours after placing the order with Lake People. Very impressive. Here are some unboxing photos.
  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
Reviews  
 Innerfidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers
  
 Tyll has also done some measurements of the G109 (as well as some other comparable amps):
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-november-2012-update
  
 See pages 13 and 14 of this PDF for the G109 measurements:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/121105_blog_update_FirstAmpTests.pdf
  
 Updated G109 measurements, July 2013:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AllAmpsJuly2013.pdf
  
 Innerfidelity Headphone Amplifier Wall of Fame:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers
  
  
  
230V vs 115V  
 If you will be using your amp in the U.S. or places that use 115V AC mains power you'll want to buy the amp directly from Lake People or through their U.S. web store: http://violectric-usa.com/
  
 Amps purchased through Thomann.de are set to 230 V AC so in order to plug them into 115 V AC outlets in the U.S. you will need eo either use a step-up transformer or modify the amp. To convert your Lake People / Violectric amp from 230V AC to 115V AC or vice versa, see these instructions provided by Fried:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620082/lake-people-g109-g103-thread/195#post_10727895
  
  

  
How To Buy  
 For those who are interested, I got in touch with Lake People and found out the following:
  
 You can order the G10X amps direct from Lake People by emailing them at info@lake-people.de (don't forget the hyphen). You will get a 5% discount which will make the prices as follows:
  
 (Current prices as of Aug 2012)
  
 PHONE-AMP G103-S = 195,59 EUR
 PHONE-AMP G103-P = 235,51 EUR
 PHONE-AMP G105 = 294,50 EUR
 PHONE-AMP G107 = 351,50 EUR
 PHONE-AMP G109-S = 355,25 EUR
 PHONE-AMP G109-P = 395,17 EUR
  
 Shipping to the US is 32 Euros for a single amp. Amps shipped to the US are set to 115 VAC mains voltage. Payment is done through PayPal. Shipping was *extremely* fast for me and Lake People's customer service was spectacular.
  
  
*NEW:* It looks like Lake People / Violectric have a new U.S. web store that you can order from as well:
  
 http://violectric-usa.com


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## devhen

Bump.  Added photos and specs to the OP.


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## The Fed

Devhen have you figured out a source for US Customers?
   
  I'd like to get my hands on one of these unbalanced units.... But no luck finding a merchant that sells to US.


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## devhen

Quote: 





the fed said:


> Devhen have you figured out a source for US Customers?
> 
> I'd like to get my hands on one of these unbalanced units.... But no luck finding a merchant that sells to US.


 
   
  Yes! thomann.de is where I plan on getting mine. Go here:
   
http://www.thomann.de/intl/lake_people.html
   
  Add the amp to your cart and change the shipping address to the United States. It will add a $30 euro shipping charge. After that you can click the american flag in the top right corner of your cart and it will let you change it to USD if you want to see the total in USD. Their prices are pretty good even with the additional US shipping. Their shipping policy states that shipments to the US are fully eligible for their 30-day money back guarantee and their included 3-year Thomann warranty.
   
  Apparently these Aphrodite Cu29 guys are the official US distributor for Lake People but they still don't have any Lake People amps listed on their site aside from the Violectrics:
   
http://aphroditecu29.com/Violectric/Violectric.aspx


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## The Fed

Thanks Devhen, I also just got contacted by Lake People directly. They said to send requests to info@lakepeople.de
  and they can process through paypal direct from the shop. or contact Aphrodite music as he can probably process the order through the shop in Germany.
   
  Super glad I saw this post. Without naming names, I was looking at two other $250 to $300 amps and was about to pull the trigger.... way happier with this choice.


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## devhen

Quote: 





the fed said:


> Thanks Devhen, I also just got contacted by Lake People directly. They said to send requests to info@lakepeople.de
> and they can process through paypal direct from the shop. or contact Aphrodite music as he can probably process the order through the shop in Germany.
> 
> Super glad I saw this post. Without naming names, I was looking at two other $250 to $300 amps and was about to pull the trigger.... way happier with this choice.


 
   
  Awesome! Thanks for the info! I think I'll email them and see if I can get a quote on the G109-S.
   
  Feel free to name names.  But yeah in the $250 range the G103 is looking like it might be a really awesome bang-for-your-buck amp.


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## devhen

Just got a "mailbox is full" error trying to email them at info@lakepeople.de 
   
  Edit-- I had the email wrong, its actually info@lake-people.de with a hyphen.


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## The Fed

Maybe try again on Monday, he said there would be no activity this weekend....
  I was looking at the M-Stage and a Yulong model.... Based on the review you posted, I think even the low end Lake People model is more promising.... with the Violectric DNA and all.
   
  BTW that site you linked has some pretty sick pricing all the way around.


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## fdg

@ devhen
   
  try:
   
  info@lake-people.de instead info@lakepeople.de
   
  It´s only a *" - "* but it makes the difference 
   
  Thomann is the biggest "music" related shop in Europe.
   
  They offer goood prices, 3 years warrenty and a 30-day return policy (dont know how this works outside Europe)
   
  But please keep in mind that specially the Lake People and Violectric stuff is set to 230 V AC mains voltage as they normally only stock for european needs (until now ... ).
   
  But it is no mystery to change mains voltage when you are common with the hot end of a soldering iron - and Lake people will send instructions !
   
  Greetz
   
  Fried


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## devhen

Fried,
   
  So great to hear from you! Thanks so much for the info. I was under the impression that the G103 and G109 supported both 230 V AC and 115 V AC mains voltage since the back of the units say "115 / 230 VAC" next to the power outlet. If not, would it be possible to order a 115 V version of the G109-S directly from you guys, to be shipped to the US? If that's not possible I'll go ahead and order from Thomann and make the change with a soldering iron.
   
  Thanks again!
   
  Devin


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## Aravind

Hi Fried, 
  I have a question about g109. The specs for the 'P' version says 'outputs with relais controlled switch-on delay' which is not there in the 'S' version specs. Can you explain what that means.


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## devhen

For those who are interested, I got in touch with Lake People and found out the following:
   
  You can order the G10X amps direct from Lake People by emailing them at info@lake-people.de (don't forget the hyphen). You will get a 5% discount which will make the prices as follows:
   
  PHONE-AMP G103-S = 195,59 EUR
  PHONE-AMP G103-P = 235,51 EUR
  PHONE-AMP G105 = 294,50 EUR
  PHONE-AMP G107 = 351,50 EUR
  PHONE-AMP G109-S = 355,25 EUR
  PHONE-AMP G109-P = 395,17 EUR
   
  Shipping to the US is 32 Euros for a single amp. Amps shipped to the US are set to 115 VAC mains voltage. Payment is done through PayPal.
   
   
  I've ordered the G109-S and I will post some unboxing photos when it arrives.


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## .Sup

Interested if this can drive HE-6.


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## Anda

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Interested if this can drive HE-6.


 
   
  Hifiman headphones sounds pretty good on my G100, but for the HE-6 I would go for a speaker amp instead.


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## devhen

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Interested if this can drive HE-6.


 
   
  Quote: 





anda said:


> Hifiman headphones sounds pretty good on my G100, but for the HE-6 I would go for a speaker amp instead.


 
   
  From the review on Innerfidelity:
   
"...at the heart of the design a National Semiconductor LM1876. This is a chip amp that is intended for driving speakers, and is popular with the DIY crowd for things like Gainclone amps."


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## Anda

A local head-fier uses the Musical Fidelity M3i for his HE-6. He borrowed my G100 and a Violectric V181. This is his impressions:
   
   


> My first impression is that Anda's Lake People G100 is actually good for HD 650, is pleasantly surprised by it, I could live with it. It seems a little brighter than the V181, as you may well hear is better, but it also costs twice as much. Compared to my Harmony Design Ear 90 the two amps from Lake people have slightly smaller soundstage and sound is a little closer, but I have also read that they are good for monitoring.
> Also tried my HE-6 balanced on the Violetric V181 and it sounds fine, but just not as good as Calyx DAC RCA (unbalanced) -> Musical Fidelity M3i -> HE adapter -> HE-6. HE-6 is a beast who must have lots of power and everything in the sound becomes "less" on the "small" amplifiers. However, it will be interesting to try to put the balanced cable HE-300 and He-500 and then put them on the V181. It will probably sound good.


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## devhen

Quote: 





anda said:


> A local head-fier uses the Musical Fidelity M3i for his HE-6. He borrowed my G100 and a Violectric V181. This is his impressions:


 
   
  Do you know how similar the G100 is to the G109? From the specs they look fairly similar with the G109 having a slight edge in power.


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## Anda

Quote: 





devhen said:


> Do you know how similar the G100 is to the G109? From the specs they look fairly similar with the G109 having a slight edge in power.


 
   
  I think the G109-P is a facelift of the G100. Don't think the layout has changed much, but as you said it has a bit more power and 3 steps pre-gain switch instead of 5 steps. Works well with my HE-300, my Jaycars and a HE-400 I had on loan.
   
  Also heard HE-500, Denon D7000 and Beyer DT880/600 on a meet last week and in my ears the G100 makes a great match with all of them. I am pretty certain that HE-500 is going to be my next headphone and I think the HE-500/G100 is a great combo!


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## Loevhagen

If I should split between V200 / G100 and HE-500 / LCD-2 - this would be the result:
   
  - V200 + LCD-2
  - G100 + HE-500
   
  No doubt after several months of listening to all 4.
   
  Having seen inside photos of the G100 and G109; I'm not sure we're facing a facelift here.. It could be an upgrade - or cost consciousness - or something else.


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## Anda

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Having seen inside photos of the G100 and G109; I'm not sure we're facing a facelift here.. It could be an upgrade - or cost consciousness - or something else.


 
   
  Seems like you're right. Just found this german site with a few pics of G103 and G109:
   
http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=4442
   
  Here's a pic of my G100:


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## devhen

For comparison here's the G109-P insides:


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## devhen

Bump-- Added unboxing photos to the OP. I was very impressed with how fast the amp arrived from Germany (just 2 days). Customer service from Lake People has been superb. I'm very happy with the G109-S so far. More thoughts to come.


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## The Fed

@ Devhen.... Awesome acquisition bud! I am waiting on a refund of a portable amp before I can pull the trigger on this but am getting the G109 same as you as soon as the refund money clears.
   
  The guys over at Lake People are awesome with customer service.
  I'd love to get your impressions of it after you've had some time with it.


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## The Fed

@ Loevhagen & Anda
   
  Thanks for the clarification.... I've got HE300 and HE400 and wasn't sure if I should go entry level Violectric V90 or Lake People G109s
  If you guys are saying the LP G100 has a good synergy with the Hifiman cans.... I'll trust that and stop wringing my hands about it.


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## devhen

@The Fed:
   
  Fried (Lake People CEO) told me the G109 is very similar to the Violectric V100. Its probably fairly similar to the V90 as well but I think its more on par with the more expensive V100, albeit with a couple minor differences to bring the cost down.
   
  Here's what he told me:
   


> …. and, yes, the amps inside G109 are very close to the circuitry of Violectric V100.
> Beneath the fact that G109 is made with SMD components while V100 offers standard components of coarse there are some other minor differences. But as a result they are quite close together.


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## The Fed

Thank you Devhen this saves me from needless wheel spinning and wasted time.... I spent hours upon hours doing "this vs. that" searches looking for a portable amp... I'd rather just trust the reputation of Freid and company rather than spend another week agonizing over it.
   
  Elke over at Lake People just got me a quote on the G109S. Hopefully I can pull the trigger today.


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## fdg

@ Aravind
   
  It seems that G100 / V100 look very different compared to G109.
  This is because of the SMD components used for G109.
  The amp circuitry is quite similar.
  To save costs during production we are using SMD components for G105 / 107 / 109..
  Also, unlike to G100 / V100 / G109-P inside G109-S the balanced input circuitry and the delayed power-on relais is missing to save some costs and lower the price.
   
  A balanced input is often not neccessary for home use.
   
  The power-on relais is a nice feature and will protect the connected headphone from clicks, pops and unlinearities from the amp during power-on and power-off.
  But our amps are quite friendly during power-on/off and no headphone damages are reported from our more "budgetary" models.
   
  Greetz
   
  Fried


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## devhen

Thanks Fried!
   
  Can you explain what you mean by "SMD components" and how they differ from the components used in the G100/V100? (Sorry, total noobie question)


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## R Giskard

SMD or SMT means sufrace mount technology. It has to do with manufacturing process where all the components are soldered by machines on automated assembly lines. Components are smaller, cheaper and everything is done by machines so the final cost is lower as well. On the other hand, SMD components such as cpacitors and resistors are typically of lower quality due to size and manufacturing processes. Though you can achieve reasonable level of quality, through-hole or axial capacitors are available with an ever higher level of quality if you're prepared to pay for it. SMD is used everywhere nowadays, in cellphones, television sets, home electronics, computers and every imaginable application. SMD was available as early as 1980s. I'd say that G100 has an edge over the G109 due to the sheer fact of serviceability. The electronics design is also plain to understand so it makes the G100 a better hoice for future upgrades/modification.
   
  Cheers!
  Antun


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## R Giskard

Still, to make an additional comment to my previous one, I think serviceability won't be a problem wince Lake People makes excellent quality electronics renown for reliability and perfect operational record due to rigorous quality control.


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## devhen

@akatona:
   
  Thank you for the response. That makes a lot of sense and is pretty much what I had assumed but I wasn't sure. I'm fine with the SMD components in the G109 and I expect it to last a very long time without needing service. I also have no plans to modify it so I actually prefer the SMD components because of the lower cost.
   
  Cheers,
  Devin


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## fdg

@ akatona
  
  your right, SMD components are intendend for cheap mass production with lower quality approach.
  But meanwhile also high quality resistors (0,1% resistors are available for standard E6 values) and semiconductors are available.
  Some integrated circuits are nowadays exclusively available as SMD components !!
  But it is difficiult or impossible to have high quality capacitors.
  In some cases - for decoupling - SMD capacitors make sense because they can be positioned closer to relevant points.
  Because of their size we use only thru-hole high-capacity electrolytic capacitors.
  Also the high-speed transistors are "standard" models.

 Take a look at the pictures to see where we are using thru-hole components (large components, reliability reasons, serviceability reasons) and where we think it is useful to to have SMD components (resistors, dont-care semiconductors, large scale intergrated circuits (not used in headphone amps), small decoupling capacitors).
   
  Greetz
   
  Fried


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## R Giskard

@Fried
   
  You can achieve 0,1% value tolerance with SMD resistors that's true but they are few and far in between. Still, the sheer specification does not guarantee superior performance, only reliability in terms of quoted specifications so you can rely on it without measuring the effective value. As far as subjective impressions go, I've never encountered an SMD resistor I'd choose over an axial type.  That is even more true when it comes to capacitors. I agree with you on most things though. 
   
  Cheers!
  Antun


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## The Fed

Any impressions yet Devhen?


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## gelocks

I hadn't seen this thread (or else I wouldn't have started one...) So I'm interested in either the 103s/109s and a Lehman BCL... I'm still not sure which way I should go though but these ones hold my attention. Dehven, any impressions on these? The only reviews/impressions I've seen are the ones from InnerFidelity and it seems both 103/109 are a good buy!
   
  Not sure though about going the Lehman way though...


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## devhen

Quote: 





gelocks said:


> I hadn't seen this thread (or else I wouldn't have started one...) So I'm interested in either the 103s/109s and a Lehman BCL... I'm still not sure which way I should go though but these ones hold my attention. Dehven, any impressions on these? The only reviews/impressions I've seen are the ones from InnerFidelity and it seems both 103/109 are a good buy!
> 
> Not sure though about going the Lehman way though...


 
   
  Hey gelocks. Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Lehmanns, or any of the other high end amps, so I can't compare the G109 to them. I can tell you that I am liking my G109 very much. Its exactly what I thought it would be-- a relatively inexpensive, sturdy & reliable, simple, and very powerful amp. Its not the best option for modding and the like, its more of a 'set it and forget it' amp, and in that regard it is very good. It has enough power to push any headphones out there, possibly even the HE6 though that remains to be seen, and the variable gain settings make it possible to use anything with the G109, from 16 ohm IEMs to 600 ohm full size cans.
   
  I'm planning on putting together all my thoughts on the G109 and adding it to the OP but I'm mainly hoping that as more people find out about these and get their hands on them that we'll get some feedback as to how they compare to other options like the BCL, Apex Butte, Violectric V200, etc.
   
  It sounds like you have the opportunity to get a BCL on the cheap, which sounds cool. If you end up going with one of the Lake People amps I'm sure you'll be pretty happy. If saving money is your top priority the G103 might be the perfect choice.


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## The Fed

Hey Gelocks check out this link:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/449063/test-of-pro-headphone-amplifiers-lake-people-wins
   
  It was a discussion about a Pro-Audio review with the Lake People G100, Lehman BCL, and SP Control and Phonitor.
  Lake people was chosen as the favorite based on its power/ neutrality.
   
  I just bought the Violectric V90 for 5 euros more than the Lake People G109 because based on pictures, they both had the same toroidal transformer, the same NE5532 National Opamps, the same array of smoothing capacitors.... the difference was the G109S had a higher spec pot (which got a hat tip from John @ IF for the channel matching) while the V90 has gain switches on the exterior of the chassis and has the opamps in sockets...... I don't plan to anytime soon but I like having the option to roll opamps..... may be the things that keeps upgraditis at bay. And because I have 300 ohm phones and 40 ohm phones.... the ability to switch gain quickly is pretty important.... 
   
  I think its a win/ win situation though.... either way you're getting the goods.


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## gelocks

Thanks for your words guys!
   
  I think I WILL buy the Lehman and next month the G103... it will be an interesting comparison me thinks... 
   
   
  Thanks.


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## devhen

Quote: 





gelocks said:


> Thanks for your words guys!
> 
> I think I WILL buy the Lehman and next month the G103... it will be an interesting comparison me thinks...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome! Let us know what you think of the G103.


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## devhen

Quote: 





the fed said:


> Hey Gelocks check out this link:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/449063/test-of-pro-headphone-amplifiers-lake-people-wins
> 
> It was a discussion about a Pro-Audio review with the Lake People G100, Lehman BCL, and SP Control and Phonitor.
> Lake people was chosen as the favorite based on its power/ neutrality.
> ...


 
   
  Went for the V90 eh? Sweeeet. I wish the G109 had external gain switches but I don't think it will be much of headache for me. Right now pretty much all of my headphones are 32 ohm aside from my 300 ohm HD600s and 600 ohm DT770s but actually the middle gain setting works pretty well for all of them. The 32 ohm cans can (just?) handle full volume w/o exploding but it still gets loud enough to blare my 770s if I choose to. When I'm exclusively using the 32 ohm cans or vice versa its handier to use a corresponding gain level & in those cases I usually do but I end up opening the chassis pretty rarely.

 Congrats on the V90 I hope you enjoy it. If you ever get a chance to hear the G103/G109 let us know what you think about them vs the V90, that would be an interesting comparison though I imagine they're a lot more similar than they are different.


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## The Fed

Yeah a day after ordering I am still on the fence about whether I made the best decision for SQ, but the nice thing is that Lake People/ Violectric are known for transparency and neutrality..... not this colored sound.... so in theory they should sound nearly indistinguishable from each other.
   
  The big counterweight that I was wrestling with (I am not sure why I just was) was the discrete output stage on the G109 vs. the opamp in the V90..... most fall to the discrete being better and it the one big differences in circuit design between the G109 and V90. Plus some say socketed opamps in the gain stage can cause coloration.... but I don't have the technical knowledge to argue either side of that argument.... reading opinions on Headfi just makes it twice as confusing so I'm just happy I've got my desktop unit coming. If down the line I can roll opamps, it's a nice option to have.
   
  Considering I am coming from a portable amp.... I think it's going to be all good either way..... if I feel like something is not quite right, I can always return it and get the Lake People amp.
   
  But I don't see that happening.


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## Greeni

Quote: 





devhen said:


> If you ever get a chance to hear the G103/G109 let us know what you think about them vs the V90, that would be an interesting comparison though I imagine they're a lot more similar than they are different.


 
   
  X2
   
  I am curious about the V90 as well. Sure the V181 and V200 has been praised over these columns but at those price level there are many choices out there...


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## The Fed

I will certainly post my impressions... i am also getting a loaner from Apex to review and will certainly do a winner take all death match with the V90... John gave the nod to the G109 over the Butte... curious if Fried can pull a clean sweep with the V90.

So glad that this upgrade cycle has come to an end.... with a Violectric amp on my desk no less.... life is good and Creedence Clearwater rocks!


----------



## The Fed

Just thought I would share this so everyone was aware.
  I paid the full price of my amp plus shipping.... Received a tracking number on Monday and it was scheduled for delivery today.
   
  However I did not have my checkbook on me today and UPS is requesting $30.00 import fee payable by check only to deliver the amp.
  Maybe commonplace but I thought I would mention it so other US buyers don't get the same surprise that I did.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





the fed said:


> Just thought I would share this so everyone was aware.
> I paid the full price of my amp plus shipping.... Received a tracking number on Monday and it was scheduled for delivery today.
> 
> However I did not have my checkbook on me today and UPS is requesting $30.00 import fee payable by check only to deliver the amp.
> Maybe commonplace but I thought I would mention it so other US buyers don't get the same surprise that I did.


 
   
  Woah! Crazy. Did you buy direct from Lake People via email/paypal or through the Violectric site? My G109, direct from LP, was shipped via UPS and I had no "import fee". Showed up after 48 hours. The only thing I can think is...could this be some kind of thing that is only charged in California?


----------



## gelocks

I remember some carriers USED to charge us 7% or so of the total value of the product but they had not done that in a few years... so My guess is that indeed it is some kind of "Tax"... So if the amp was $400... 7 percent should be almost $30 so maybe it's something like that.?!


----------



## The Fed

Devhen

Yeah i bought them direct from Lake People, paid the shipping up front and they arrived 2 business days later.... Only the UPS guy would not give them to me till I scratched out a check for $30.00

He said it was for import duty fees.... I am in Long Beach so maybe there is a local Port import fee as opposed to say New York... I honestly dont know... Not a really big deal but I thought I should share it. A college kid may have a bit more trouble with an unexpected $30 fee than me.

On the positive side I've never heard my ortho headphones sound so good.... this amp is absolutely amazing with my Hifiman cans... the lows sound impressive, the mids and highs are smooth.... wonderfully linear... it really gets out of the way and lets you enjoy your music to its full potential.


----------



## The Fed

I suppose since its a Violectric I'll need to move my impressions over to another thread but seeing how the G109 and V90 share nearly identical circuitry... with the G109 having a RK27 blue velvet pot and discrete output and the V90 having a RK14 pot and an opamp output being the only differences.... same cap array, same power transformer, same gain stage opamps.... 

I guess my final words here are impressed... very impressed... I can take my 300 ohm Senns and ortho cans to new levels of performance with Freid's amp.... my portable and Fiio amps both start breaking up at higher volumes... the V90 seems to get better and better the higher I take it... Where my National was a nogo at loud volumes because distortion would start fraying the edges of the transients and more dynamic passages... the V90 seems completely confident... to give it a car analogy... its like the confident anchored feeling you have driving a BMW... i used to think the Hifiman cans just couldnt handle the higher volumes with dynamic low frequency runs, complex arangements etc... I now have a greater appreciation for these cans matched with an amp that can truly keep pace and bring out the best in them.

Impressed


----------



## devhen

Very, very cool. Glad you're liking the V90. Now I'm looking forward even more to trying my G109 with some orthos. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Loevhagen

I wonder if the now passed G100 was much more alike to the V100 / V200 than the new G10x-series.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> I wonder if the now passed G100 was much more alike to the V100 / V200 than the new G10x-series.


 
   
  What makes you think that? Or are you just wondering?


----------



## devhen

Yeah I suppose specifically the G103 is a lot less like the V100 / V200, as well as the G109 in that its using SMD components. It would be very interesting to know how the G109 compares to the others-- G100, V90, V100, V200. I guess I could send my G109-S to someone who has some of the others, for comparison, but IDK if I can go without it for that long.


----------



## devhen

I'll be adding more thoughts about my G109-S soon. For now I'll point out that I don't think the G109 has what it takes to push the HE6 to its full potential but should work quite well with pretty much any of the other orthos. More thoughts to come on how the G109-S is doing with my HD600 and DT770 600 ohm (very good BTW).


----------



## Lito1

Has anyone tried G103 with Beyerdynamic T1? Is it powerful enough?
  Until now I only use it with low impedance headphones (HE-400, ATH W3000anv). As I am about to get a T1 I'd like to know more about such a pairing.
   
  tiebreaker question: is it a good pairing with HD800 ?
   
  in advance, thanks!


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





lito1 said:


> Has anyone tried G103 with Beyerdynamic T1? Is it powerful enough?
> Until now I only use it with low impedance headphones (HE-400, ATH W3000anv). As I am about to get a T1 I'd like to know more about such a pairing.
> 
> tiebreaker question: is it a good pairing with HD800 ?
> ...


 
  It Will be Fine with HD-800 or T1 G103 will deliver enough to them from an electrical stand point , if it's a good pairing or not depend more in your tastes . G103 will not make highs sweeter  , warm up mids , or add body to bass ...   
   
  I just briefly compared a G109-P and Auditor With HD600 not at home (HD600 is not a can that i know well ... , volume matching was not done , but they showed many similitudes) , G103 has lower spec but it will folow the same pace for the sound : Transparent and neutral .


----------



## Lito1

thanks! it helps


----------



## hekeli

I've been making direct comparison for an hour with G109-S and V200, fed from V800 simultaneously (XLR -> V200, RCA -> G109). So it's a one second switch to move the jack.. the holes must feel quite abused by now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The differences are so neglible (dare I say non-existent?) that I'm returning the V200 (and ultimately V800, I'll just compare it to Realiser and ODAC first). I just can't make myself to pay for the sexy looks.
   
  LCD-3's as phones (and lots of HD tracks).


----------



## placebo-fi

Did you use any IEM in your testing? More often than not IEMs are more difficult loads than full-sizes, and where the higher damping factor of the V200 may make a difference.

 Rocking a G103 right now, plenty awesome for the price and better than my previous O2 in imaging and details.


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





placebo-fi said:


> where the higher damping factor of the V200 may make a difference.


 

 All Lake People / Violectric amps are supposed to be way below 1 ohm, so there's no difference.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> I've been making direct comparison for an hour with G109-S and V200, fed from V800 simultaneously (XLR -> V200, RCA -> G109). So it's a one second switch to move the jack.. the holes must feel quite abused by now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Its great to finally hear a G109/V200 comparison! Thanks hekeli. Very interesting indeed. G109 looks to be a great performer for the price.
   
  FYI, Tyll has added some amp measurements that include the G109. See pages 13 and 14 of this PDF:
   
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/121105_blog_update_FirstAmpTests.pdf


----------



## Greeni

Anyone like to comment on the tonality of the Lake People amp versus Violectric. The latter has been described as neutral but warm, even approaching tube sound. Just wonder if Lake People has the same signature.
   
  In my country the price of the Lake People G109 amp is selling for almost 85% of the Violectric V200. As such, I guess it is more advisable to get the latter. That said, apparantly the Lake People amps are designed with international voltage and I may be able to get one from overseas with the usual lower pricing.


----------



## devhen

@Greeni:

See the first page of this thread, specifically this post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/620082/lake-people-g109-g103-thread#post_8572536

You can get the LP amps directly from Lake People for the same price everyone else pays (about half the price of the V200) and you have the option of U.S. or international A/C voltage.


----------



## devhen

*Deleted* - Duplicate post. This new mobile site for head-fi seems a little buggy.


----------



## Anda

@devhen: Might be too much to ask, but could you compare the footprint to a CD. This is a picture I took when unpacking my G100:


----------



## devhen

@Anda:
   
  Sure.


----------



## kkl10

Nice pics!
   
  Anyone, besides John at Innerfidelity, had the opportunity to compare the G109 or V100 to the Apex Butte?
  Anyone using the V100 with the optional built-in Dac?
  What are the impressions of this Dac?
  I'm looking to score one V100 or G109 in the near future, it seems from what I've been reading and from their circuit design that they're performance is identical but I like the added features and functionality of the V100 and the possiblity to fit in a Dac, but there's not much word about it...


----------



## Anda

Thanks! Love how compact and yet powerful these amps are.
   
  Offtopic: Great CD. Looks like a CD bought in HMV


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





anda said:


> Thanks! Love how compact and yet powerful these amps are.
> 
> Offtopic: Great CD. Looks like a CD bought in HMV


 
   
  Hehe. Close. Its a used CD I bought on Amazon, from a seller in England.  I've bought this CD at least once before but have since lost it so I had to pick up a used one so I could import it as FLAC.


----------



## ZMZB

Well, after eyeballing the G109-S for several months now, I finally pulled the trigger and purchased one from Thomann. I'll try to give some quick impressions in a few weeks.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





zmzb said:


> Well, after eyeballing the G109-S for several months now, I finally pulled the trigger and purchased one from Thomann. I'll try to give some quick impressions in a few weeks.


 
   
  Awesome! Looking forward to it. Congrats on the new amp.


----------



## FlySweep

I've had my eye on the 109 for quite some time.. well, I just emailed LP/Fried about wanting to order the 109-S.  Can't wait to see/hear/feel what it's all about.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I've had my eye on the 109 for quite some time.. well, I just emailed LP/Fried about wanting to order the 109-S.  Can't wait to see/hear/feel what it's all about.


 
   
  An overall similar sound to your O2 at volume matched ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  Well i didn't compared directly O2 / G109S / SPL Auditor , but from my very unreliable memory i would say that they folow the same patern "no sound" aka transparency .


----------



## ch1n4

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I've had my eye on the 109 for quite some time.. well, I just emailed LP/Fried about wanting to order the 109-S.  Can't wait to see/hear/feel what it's all about.


 
   
  Great, I've also been interested in the G109 for a long time. Let us know what you think about it, especially compared to the O2.


----------



## FlySweep

FIGHT!
   
  I've had it for a few hours.. and am *so thoroughly impressed*.. my wife's worried about the way I'm (seductively) looking at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  The transparency is unreal.. the sound is frighteningly clean, effortless, & impeccably detailed.. so much so that it sounds downright _liquid_.  Pairs with both the HE-400 & HD600 _beautifully_.  The HE-400, in particular, sounds heavenly.  As I noted on the HE-400 thread.. the 109 makes the O2 sound, comparatively, slow and muddy.  Instrument separation & soundstage proportion is phenomenal.  Tonal accuracy is as good as I've heard.  Articulation, dynamics, control, and speed across the spectrum is awesome.  It's all showcased with the HE-400.  The G109 just sounds so damn natural to my ears.  I couldn't be happier with the purchase.
   
  I've gained new found appreciation for the ODAC, as well.  I've always admired it's accuracy & resolving ability.. but I was taken aback by just how good it was once it fed the G109.  The last thing HeadFi needs is exaggeration.. and I'm pretty even tempered with my enthusiasm.. but this, IMO, is a significant upgrade over the O2 as far as sound quality goes.  More thoughts coming in time.. but as far as solid state amps, I can't imagine _anything_ sound better at the price... let alone the majority amps under $1000.  It's effectively ended my search for a solid state amp.


----------



## devhen

@FlySweep, thanks for the impressions and great pic. That's really high praise for the G109 and its great to hear. I'm glad you're happy. Maybe this G109 will start to become a little more popular around here since it does get great reviews and seems to compare really favorably to other amps in its price range and above.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *devhen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> @FlySweep, thanks for the impressions and great pic. That's really high praise for the G109 and its great to hear. I'm glad you're happy. Maybe this G109 will start to become a little more popular around here since it does get great reviews and seems to compare really favorably to other amps in its price range and above.


 
   
  No prob!  Bad quality pic though as I took it hastily.. I'll snap something a little nicer tomorrow with natural light.
   
  I appreciate the build quality of the amp.. sturdy, sleek, and understated.  German Engineering at its finest, no?  I've been raving via PM to one of my buds about how much I love the volume pot.. lol.  So smooth, the stepping is so accurate.  I've got the gain set at stock (medium gain) and it offers the most play for reasonably efficient orthos (in my case, the HE-400).  I'm sure the HE-500 would be fine at this setting too.  Interestingly enough, I can ably drive even sensitive IEMs at this (medium) gain setting.  No volume imbalance at even the lowest level (awesome) and I can get to 9 pm on the pot to reach comfortable listening levels.
   
  This amp _definitely_ deserves more attention.  There's a lot of competition at the price, but I'm quite confident the 109 is truly one of the more special amps out there.  I doubt there's much competition that's built better.. and the G109's ability to drive a range of phones with such finesse and authority is quite impressive to me.  What more, it's being offered from a company with a very solid reputation and technical background.  Spend a little time with this amp and all that becomes very apparent.  I wrestled with the idea of going with the V200.. but felt it was something to look at much further down the line.. after having the 109, I'm scuttled that desire entirely.  What the 109 delivers in terms of performance is thoroughly satisfying.. I can't imagine the V200 being more than some incremental improvement, considering diminishing returns, and all.
   
  The 109 came highly recommended from (the always knowledgeable) project86.. he's a guy who's heard a thing or two (lol), and the fact he couldn't identify any notable flaw with this amp truly sold me.  In the brief time I've spent with the G109, it's thoroughly delivered on the lofty expectations I had set.
   
  Also, the customer service from Lake People was fantastic.  Prompt, polite, emails kept everything moving quickly and I was amazed with how fast it got delivered (ordered on Monday, at my doorstep today/Wednesday).


----------



## devhen

@FlySweep, I totally agree with you on all of that. I don't have any other comparable amps to pit my G109 against, just the powered headphone jack on my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, so maybe I'm taking for granted just how good the G109 is. But I've certainly been happy with it.
   
  I also use the medium gain setting and I agree, it does a really great job of allowing you to run anything from sensitive portables to 600 ohm cans.
   
  I agree on the Lake People customer service. They are really awesome to work with and extremely nice and quick to respond. And I was similarly blown away to receive my amp direct from Germany to Utah within less than 48 hours. Even if it were available here in the states I would seriously consider ordering it directly from Lake People instead.
   
  I agree on the build quality and the volume pot. Everything is smooth and accurate and very sturdy.
   
  The strong point of the G109 might just be its power. It gave my HD600 and DT770 600 ohm stronger bass which I expected based on their impedance curves. If you have cans that do best when given plenty of power (including orthos) the G109 is an awesome choice. I can't wait to finally try mine with some orthos. Now I just need to decide between the HE-500 and the LCD2. 
   
  Oh, and you mentioned quality German engineering. I'm a huge fan of everything German. I'm an engineer myself (software engineer anyway) and I've always been thoroughly impressed with all of the German engineered products I've purchased and used (and there are many, lol) and this G109 is certainly no exception. German engineering at its best, indeed.


----------



## ch1n4

@ Flysweep Thanks for your impression!


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> FIGHT!
> 
> I've had it for a few hours.. and am *so thoroughly impressed*.. my wife's worried about the way I'm (seductively) looking at it
> 
> ...


 
   
  I suppose you compared level matched ^^ .
   
  Any way on great german amp very well built there is also the SPL Auditor / Phonitor (but they seams more aimed at high impedance cans) , the G109S is more versatile


----------



## kkl10

Thank you for commenting on the ODAC performance with the G109, FlySweep.
  That's the Dac I'm planning to get to feed my V100.
  Right now, I'm sadly, limited to my crappy PC line-out and the V100 really shows how crappy it is. 
  This amp really deserves a good source.


----------



## 0rangutan

I bought the G-103P a month or so back and have been very very happy with it ever since.
   
  I have used it successfully with a range of headphones - T1, HD800, HE-500 and HE-4.  It worked very well with all, with plenty of current and gain to spare with all but the inefficient HE-4's and even these were plenty loud enough.  The dual outputs are a great feature and perfect for comparing headphones quickly and easily.
   
  It beats my Bel Canto DAC1.5's headphone output very convincingly.  Of the other headphone amps that I have owned, it is more detailed than the Lehmann clones, provides way more current than a Woo WA-3 and is much more neutral than either of these quite dark sounding amps.  It provides plenty of current for my orthos and is way more user friendly and safe than the Schiit Lyr (which blew the drivers of a pair of Beyer T70's as I plugged them in, evil horrible thing).
   
  Other than possibly going for the G-109, I can't imagine really needing to ever change amp again.  Another strong recommendation for an excellent amp and manufacturer.


----------



## devhen

Thanks for the feedback 0rangutan! Glad to see you're liking the G103. Congrats.
   
  That's got to be the best bang for your buck among amps that are capable of adequately powering all of the different cans you mentioned.


----------



## Sludig

Can someone explain if there are true differences in the sound of G103 and G109, or only is a power differentiation?
   
  I´m very interested in this amps, but the G109 is a bit expensive. It´d be to drive a pair of LCD2.


----------



## 0rangutan

I have the G103 already and a G109 arriving any day now.
  I should be able to A/B test fairly well as my DAC has two outputs - I will let you know whether I can hear a difference!


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





0rangutan said:


> I have the G103 already and a G109 arriving any day now.
> I should be able to A/B test fairly well as my DAC has two outputs - I will let you know whether I can hear a difference!


 
   
  Awesome!!! Thanks! Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## 0rangutan

Good news - the G109-S arrived today and so I have both amps set up side-by-side now.
   
  My setup is iMac -> USB -> Bel Canto DAC 1.5 -> XLR to G103-P / RCA to G109-S.
  Headphones tested are Denon D2000, Hifiman HE-4 and Sennheiser HD800.
   
  The quick summary is that both amps are truly excellent and my previous impressions of the G103 hold true for the G109 - I can't hear an audible difference between them.
  The most significant difference, other than the wider form factor of the G109 is the volume knob and ALPS RK 27 pot.  The knob on the 103 moves smoothly, feels great and has no obvious low level imbalance.  The 109's more expensive pot features a larger dial and moves in small steps, rather than moving smoothly (although it is not a stepped attenuator).  This feels even more kinaesthetic and is a real pleasure to use.
  I chose to change the gain jumpers from the stock middle setting to the higher gain on the 109.  This has resulted in average listening position of 12 o'clock with the HE-4's and just past 11 with the HD800's.  For anyone wondering whether these amps can drive orthos, rest assured, they are more than up to the job!
   
  So which to keep?  In all honesty, I would be quite happy with either.  I suspect that I will probably hang on to the G109, if only for the volume knob and to keep the upgrade OCD at bay.


----------



## FlySweep

My HD800 arrived today.. driving it from the ODAC & G109.. it sounds *phenomenal*.  Smooth, clean, clear, very transparent... and everything else that's associated with the HD800.  The G109 does a wonderful job of putting some 'meat on the HD800's bones" while taking some of the edge off the treble spike.  The synergy is terrific.  You can read my flowery, initial impressions here.


----------



## devhen

Awesome! I'm glad you're liking the G109/HD800 so much. Great write-up in the HD800 thread. Thanks. Makes me wish I had an HD800. I've been eyeing the LCD2 and HE-500 but this makes me think maybe I should be considering the HD800 more heavily.
   
  It looks like you have some other amps and dac/amps, care to elaborate on how the G109 compares? Particularly the O2 and TubeDAC-11 which I've heard great things about.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *devhen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Awesome! I'm glad you're liking the G109/HD800 so much. Great write-up in the HD800 thread. Thanks. Makes me wish I had an HD800. I've been eyeing the LCD2 and HE-500 but this makes me think maybe I should be considering the HD800 more heavily.
> 
> It looks like you have some other amps and dac/amps, care to elaborate on how the G109 compares? Particularly the O2 and TubeDAC-11 which I've heard great things about.


 
   
  I had the HE-500.. a terrific phone.. but I found it a little too thick & forward through the midrange.. the bass, while terrific in terms of extension, dynamics, clarity, & other technicalities, felt too centered around the midbass.  This combination made for a slightly intimate sounding midrange that reminded me of a little too much of a quintessential "Grado" presentation (but certainly not as aggressive or harsh).  Treble was very smooth.. but could've had a little more presence for my tastes.
   
  As you can see, my disagreements with were purely subjective & personal in nature.. I guess I hoped for more linearity & openness out of it.. the HD800 delivered that in spades.. while sounding even more engaging.  The HE-400.. while more colored in comparison to the HE-500, was a breath of fresh air, too.  The HE-400's more linear bass response, thinner, airy midrange, sparkly treble, and open soundstage served as a great change of pace.  There's a reason these two phones (along with the Paradox) are my only full sized phones.. they cover all genres and moods for me.
   
  The O2 & G109 share a lot in terms of transparency.. but the G109 offers better dynamics, instrument separation, an even better soundstage (which says something since the O2 has a terrific soundstage), and a more muscular bass response.  The O2 is an excellent amp.. delivering more than the price tag for sure.. but the G109 sounds like the more refined, articulate amp built on very similar principles.  There's more depth and clarity to the sound with the G109.. that being said, I still like using the O2 as I've kept it in the stable.  If you like the 109, you'll like the O2.. and vice versa, IMO.
   
  I'll offer thoughts on how the G109 stacks up to the TubeDAC-11 once I get the latter back.. it's being hacked/modded/upgraded, atm.. I'm quite looking forward to his shootout as the mods being performed are said to enable the TD-11 to legitimately compete with amps up to/around $1K.. I'll wait to hear how it sounds before commenting further, though.


----------



## devhen

Thanks FlySweep

Modding the TD-11 eh? Sounds very interesting. I'd love to hear how it turns out.


----------



## devhen

Out of curiosity, what kind of mods/hacks are you having done to the TubeDAC-11?


----------



## Sludig

Many thanks for yours impressions, specially between 103/109. I suppose so, that there is no reason to find differences between them, but I´m happy to read it from you.
  These days I had the opportunity to buy a G100, and it sounds really amazing!


----------



## TooPoor

Just pulled the trigger on the G109-S from Thomann. I'm in Cali, am I going to have to pay any import duties or associated fees??


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the G109-S from Thomann. I'm in Cali, am I going to have to pay any import duties or associated fees??


 
   
  I didn't have to but in California you might. I bought directly from Lake People though. You should be aware, the ones from Thomann will probably be set to 230 VAC mains voltage (for european power outlets). You might need to manually set it to 115V which I think requires a bit of soldering but should be easy. You can order them directly from Lake People, see the first post for instructions. They'll set it to 230/115V based on what country its shipping to.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *TooPoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on the G109-S from Thomann. I'm in Cali, am I going to have to pay any import duties or associated fees??


 
   
  I ordered my G109-S direct from LP.  When UPS delivered it, I didn't have to pay any fees (on the spot) to collect it.. though, I did get a $30 bill for customs/import fees in the mail a few days later (from UPS).  Not sure how it goes in Cali, but that was my experience as aresident of Washington (State).


----------



## TooPoor

Never trout about the voltage issue.... A little bit of soldering is a big deal as I'm looking for a plug and play solution... Ugh.


----------



## HiFiRobot

Does anyone know if G109S support different gains on the two headphone outputs at the same time?


----------



## plakat

Don't think so, the gain settings seem to be at the input stage (and there is only one two-channel amp inside, so only one set of gain jumpers).


----------



## devhen

Yeah, same gain level for both outputs. Separate external gain control would be nice.


----------



## Mortenl

Looking for a new ss-amp. Is the g109 a good match with the hd650?


----------



## devhen

It should be, yeah. It works great with my HD600.


----------



## Mortenl

Ok, thanks! Adding it to my shortlist.


----------



## rexirius

Guys, do you know how much the G109-P weighs?  I plan to buy this through my forwarder and they charge me by dimension and weight. Couldn't find the info on the first page or the links.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## plakat

My shipment notice said something about 2kg total weight, but I'd say the device itself is considerably less heavy...


----------



## linglingjr

hey guys I have a really stupid question: What is the point of balanced inputs if the amp only outputs to a 1/4th standard jack? Doesn't that ruin the whole point of having two independent signals if they just go to a normal jack?  I'd probably only be able to afford the G109S anyways....


----------



## i019791

Quote: 





linglingjr said:


> hey guys I have a really stupid question: What is the point of balanced inputs if the amp only outputs to a 1/4th standard jack? Doesn't that ruin the whole point of having two independent signals if they just go to a normal jack?  I'd probably only be able to afford the G109S anyways....


 
  1. Having to use long interconnect cables
  2. Having a dac whith (much) better balanced output relative to its single end output


----------



## devhen

I think its mostly just a matter of convenience for pro/studio type users who are usually connecting via XLR rather than RCA.
   
  The only other difference between the S and P versions is the P version has a relay that prevents any damage to your headphones when turning the amp off so there's no need to unplug your headphones prior to turning it off.


----------



## plakat

Quote:  





> Doesn't that ruin the whole point of having two independent signals if they just go to a normal jack?


 
   
  No, when using XLR the whole point of having the normal and inverted signal on one cable is to be able to cancel out noise immissions on the cable at the receiver by overlaying the two signals (after inverting the inverted path of course), thus enabling longer interconnections with more resilience to an electrically noisy environment.
   
  In short: when using normal input cable lengths at home you will have no problems with the RCA inputs. Only difference being said relay. I think the 'S' version will work fine for you.


----------



## wmf

anyone tried the G109 with denon d7000s?


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





wmf said:


> anyone tried the G109 with denon d7000s?


 
   
  Right now I'm using my G109-S with the TH-600 which is very similar. I'm demo'ing these thanks to Justin at HeadAmp and his demo program. The guy who had them before me said they were pretty much the same as his D7000 with full Lawton mods. The Dx000/TH-x00 don't require a lot of power so I've put the G109 on its lowest gain setting which gives me plenty of room on the volume knob. I run them at around 45% volume. They work fine and sound really great. Normally I might be a bit concerned about driving a headphone as easy to drive as the Dx000/TH-x00's with something as powerful as the G109 but they have a listed maximum input power of 1800mW and the G109 is putting out much less than that into their 25 ohm load, about 1000mW. So overall, yeah, I'd say they pair quite well. I don't have much else to compare these TH-600's on, amp wise, but they definitely do sound great.


----------



## wmf

many thanks, much appreciated
   
  i was thinking the V200, but at double the price.. diminishing returns etc ... the G109 might be the better value  ...


----------



## gelocks

Quote: 





wmf said:


> many thanks, much appreciated
> 
> i was thinking the V200, but at double the price.. diminishing returns etc ... the G109 might be the better value  ...


 

 Yeah... I was actually thinking of getting the G109S or G103S... But since the Lehman BCL has been good to me... Not sure yet! The Lehman works great with my modded Denon D5000 though. Those headphones are easy to drive... have a harder time driving MrSpeakers Mad Dogs, but that's just a jumper setting away on the BCL.


----------



## The Fed

Just thought I'd chime in. I used to have the V90 (which size and price wise is comparable to the G109..... It was really good with the Denon D5K and JVC DX700.
   
  Denon's don't need a lot of power but the Lake People/ Violectric amps kick a lot of current into 32 through 50 ohm loads so they get a really firm grip on Denon drivers.... really firm.
   
  Bass is pretty much epic.... I never understood peoples claims about "boomy" bass.... I think that has alot to do with the amp I've been running. Treble is really fast but not at all sharp. 
   
  G109 and V90 are roughly same price.... I own a V100 now and it looks very pretty for $200 more but I don't know that I hear any marked improvement. I think the G109 and V90 give you a lot for the spend... you come up against the law of diminishing returns when you start chasing the higher models up market.


----------



## The Fed

In regard to Mad Dogs... I've never owned Mad Dogs but have had Hifiman HE400's and right now use LCD2's and the Lake People low output high current design really yields some fantastic results with planars.
   
  I honestly think they may have one of the best line ups for planar phones out there....
  The G109 kicks 2300mw into a 50 ohm load.... that is hard to beat under $1000 let alone for $450.


----------



## techboy

Schiit Lyr outputs more power at $450.


----------



## gelocks

Quote: 





the fed said:


> In regard to Mad Dogs... I've never owned Mad Dogs but have had Hifiman HE400's and right now use LCD2's and the Lake People low output high current design really yields some fantastic results with planars.
> 
> I honestly think they may have one of the best line ups for planar phones out there....
> The G109 kicks 2300mw into a 50 ohm load.... that is hard to beat under $1000 let alone for $450.


 
   
  Darn'it!!
  I will have to contact Lake People again very soon! I definitely would like to try it. Which DAC do you currently use to pair with that amp?
   
  Quote: 





techboy said:


> Schiit Lyr outputs more power at $450.


 

 But have you seen the Schiit and the G109S side by side!? The Lyr is a beast!!! I don't have space for that!


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





devhen said:


> Right now I'm using my G109-S with the TH-600 which is very similar. I'm demo'ing these thanks to Justin at HeadAmp and his demo program. The guy who had them before me said they were pretty much the same as his D7000 with full Lawton mods. The Dx000/TH-x00 don't require a lot of power so I've put the G109 on its lowest gain setting which gives me plenty of room on the volume knob. I run them at around 45% volume. They work fine and sound really great. Normally I might be a bit concerned about driving a headphone as easy to drive as the Dx000/TH-x00's with something as powerful as the G109 *but they have a listed maximum input power of 1800mW and the G109 is putting out much less than that into their 25 ohm load, about 1000mW.* So overall, yeah, I'd say they pair quite well. I don't have much else to compare these TH-600's on, amp wise, but they definitely do sound great.


 

 Well , you don't need , and should not want to reach  the maximum input power . A high input power is a protection for something like a defective head amp that would discharge an unwanted pick power . If you put more than 1800 mW you can frie the driver ... so it's better to not get close at all of the 1800 mW , furthemore even with 100 mW with something like the Denons DX000 and TH-X00 yours ears would be damaged  if you ouput 100 mW into a TH-900
   
  G109 as tons of power to drive DX000 / TH-X00 properly .
   
  The DT-880-600 ohms , the maximum input power is only 100 mW ...


----------



## 0rangutan

techboy said:


> Schiit Lyr outputs more power at $450.



From my experience of owning both, the G109 (even the G103) is superior to the Lyr in accuracy and control. In addition, I wouldn't go near the Lyr again due to its poorly engineered and dangerous spikes on power up. My Lyr blew the drivers on my Beyer T70p's (also an easy load) in this manner.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Well , you don't need , and should not want to reach  the maximum input power . A high input power is a protection for something like a defective head amp that would discharge an unwanted pick power . If you put more than 1800 mW you can frie the driver ... so it's better to not get close at all of the 1800 mW ,


 
   
  Yes I know, that was my point. The specs show the G109 putting out around 1000mW into 25 ohms so its well under the maximum.
   


havoc-28 said:


> , furthemore even with 100 mW with something like the Denons DX000 and TH-X00 yours ears would be damaged  if you ouput 100 mW into a TH-900
> 
> G109 as tons of power to drive DX000 / TH-X00 properly .
> 
> The DT-880-600 ohms , the maximum input power is only 100 mW ...


 

   
  So what am I'm missing here?.. You would damage your ears if you output 100 mW into a TH-900 yet the G109 outputs 10 times that into the TH-600 and my ears are just fine. Do the headphones actually restrict how much power they get or what? I've seen maximum input power specs like you mentioned, 100 mW for the DT880-600, so in that case the G109 is putting out roughly 600 mW, 6 times the maximum, so why don't they sound overpowered? If anything they sound underpowered connected to weaker amps and devices. If something like the DT880-600 has a maximum input power of 100 mW, why do they sound so bloody great out of amps that are much more powerful than that?


----------



## The Fed

Touche! Techboy, the Lyr does do 4 watts at 50 ohms. Plenty of power for the planars.
   
  I wasn't necessarily speaking in absolute terms... only Sith Lords do that!
   
  In terms of the Lake People units though.... I think they offer premium quality and outstanding sound for orthos... and I think they are a smarter investment... for a gear roller.
  In regard to the Lyr.... I think Schiit products are a but diluted... too much inventory on the street and typically at least a dozen active listings on the "For Sale" forum. When you go to upgrade or roll gears you're going to eat 30 to 40% of what you paid.... I sold my last Freid Reim creation for 92% of what I paid.
   
  And the reviews on the Lyr have been a mixed bag.
   
  But that is just how I map it and I am no expert.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





devhen said:


> Yes I know, that was my point. The specs show the G109 putting out around 1000mW into 25 ohms so its well under the maximum.
> 
> 
> 
> So what am I'm missing here?.. You would damage your ears if you output 100 mW into a TH-900 yet the G109 outputs 10 times that into the TH-600 and my ears are just fine. Do the headphones actually restrict how much power they get or what? I've seen maximum input power specs like you mentioned, 100 mW for the DT880-600, so in that case the G109 is putting out roughly 600 mW, 6 times the maximum, so why don't they sound overpowered? If anything they sound underpowered connected to weaker amps and devices. If something like the DT880-600 has a maximum input power of 100 mW, why do they sound so bloody great out of amps that are much more powerful than that?


 

 Amp makers , give MAX output power .
   
  http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g109s 
   
   
  Headphone don't only need power , it's also about current and voltage .
   
  When you use an amp they are not always outputting their max ouptut power , in fact most time they output only a fraction of it . When you turn  the volume pot you are increasing or decreasing , power / current / voltage , there is also gains etc .


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Amp makers , give MAX output power .
> 
> http://www.lake-people.de/index.php?id=2&lang=eng&typ=3&nr=g109s
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, that was my understanding. So for example with the G109 it is only outputting ~ 600 mW into 600 ohms when the volume pot is maxed out. Well, the 600 ohm Beyers can EASILY handle the volume pot being maxed out on the G109. On the highest gain setting its quite loud but can still handle it. On low and medium gain, max volume sometimes isn't even loud enough.
   
  So once again I ask... why do some headphones have very low maximum input power when 6 or even 10 times that much power still works just fine? (BTW thanks for your response and I'm not just asking you but anyone who might know the answer).
   
  EDIT: Actually, after more testing, there's some sub-bass distortion from the 600 ohm Beyers with the G109 on its highest gain setting (+14db) and the volume pot turned up past 80% or so. Max volume is fine on medium and low gain settings (+8db and -4db).


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





devhen said:


> Yes, that was my understanding. So for example with the G109 it is only outputting ~ 600 mW into 600 ohms when the volume pot is maxed out. Well, the 600 ohm Beyers can EASILY handle the volume pot being maxed out on the G109. On the highest gain setting its quite loud but can still handle it. On low and medium gain, max volume sometimes isn't even loud enough.
> 
> So once again I ask... why do some headphones have very low maximum input power when 6 or even 10 times that much power still works just fine? (BTW thanks for your response and I'm not just asking you but anyone who might know the answer).
> 
> EDIT: Actually, after more testing, there's some sub-bass distortion from the 600 ohm Beyers with the G109 on its highest gain setting (+14db) and the volume pot turned up past 80% or so. Max volume is fine on medium and low gain settings (+8db and -4db).


 
   
  On the G109 their is selectable gain and pre gain , it depend also about the voltage in the line input . Some "DACs" , CD player etc don't output the standard 2.0 V rms .
   
  And i don't think that turning everything at 100 % strictly equal => putting 600 mW into a 600 ohms headphone . But i don't have enough knowledge in how amp works etc .
   
  The distorsion can also come from gains ...
   
  Well with O² , the 6.5x gain about 16 dB it distord the sound with a 2.0 vrms line in , so peraphs high gains with O² are disigned to be used with low output sources , like a DAP .


----------



## jamesfleming

Alright well I think I've found the amp to power my HE500s 

Now it's just going to be deciding between a 103s or 109s. There is about $250 difference between the two in Oz, so I think I'll go the 103 and then I'll have a bit of cash left to buy a DAC. It seems, from this thread, the oDAC pairs well.

Now just got to sell my JDS c5 or ALO rxII!


----------



## CJG888

jamesfleming said:


> Alright well I think I've found the amp to power my HE500s
> 
> Now it's just going to be deciding between a 103s or 109s. There is about $250 difference between the two in Oz, so I think I'll go the 103 and then I'll have a bit of cash left to buy a DAC. It seems, from this thread, the oDAC pairs well.
> 
> Now just got to sell my JDS c5 or ALO rxII!




I would recommend listening to the Audio-gd SA-31SE as well, before taking the plunge. I have the SA-31, and it matches the HE500s perfectly.


----------



## jamesfleming

Unfortunately I'm going to be buying blind either way as there is nowhere in Brisbane I can audition.

I feel a little more confident buying a Lake People amp over an Audio-GD one. Not sure why.


----------



## CJG888

Fit & finish will be better on the Lake People amp....


----------



## jamesfleming

cjg888 said:


> Fit & finish will be better on the Lake People amp....



Also I'm really hoping to have as transparent an amp as possible, in an attempt to have greater flexibility with future 'phones.
I haven't seen any graphs for the Audio-gd SA-31SE, whilst the Lake People amps seem flat as a board.


----------



## FlySweep

Congrats.. I haven't heard the G103.. but having owned the G109 & V200.. the latter two were absolutely spectacular with the HE-400/500 (and planars, in general really).


----------



## campj

cjg888 said:


> Fit & finish will be better on the Lake People amp....


 
 What about sound quality though? Plus the all in one options of the AGD. I have been getting more interested in this company despite my previous misgivings.


----------



## Suopermanni

Hey guys, is the method of ordering the amps in the first page still accurate? Do I just go and email these people for a quote?


----------



## devhen

I'm not sure if the prices have changed since I posted them. Yeah just send them an email and they'll let you know.


----------



## Advent75

Any update on Lake People's response? Purchased 109-P from them back in October.


----------



## Suopermanni

Yeah, I got a response and a price list from them!
  
 They say that there's an Australian Distro for them. I emailed the Aus distro to see if they stock them because they revamped their site recently and I can't find it.


----------



## Advent75

Was unable to find distributor here. Dealt with Lake People direct: "Fried Reim" . Try him again for clarifications on distributor in your area.


----------



## Suopermanni

advent75 said:


> Was unable to find distributor here. Dealt with Lake People direct: "Fried Reim" . Try him again for clarifications on distributor in your area.


 
  
 Well, up to a month or two ago, AddictedtoAudio in Melbourne were stocking Lake People amps. Not sure what happened to them now.


----------



## campj

So how much difference is there between G109 and O2? Neutral is neutral, right?


----------



## Advent75

campj said:


> So how much difference is there between G109 and O2? Neutral is neutral, right?



Can't say since I have not experienced O2.


----------



## plakat

In my feeling the 109 is just a tad warmer than neutral... Can't compare to the O2 though, never heard it.
  
 Fried is the founder and CEO of Lake People btw.


----------



## linglingjr

Wow I'm getting a G109s! It's still overseas though.  I'll finally get the most out of my HD600s now that they have a good dac/amp and I'll be ready for LCD-2s in a very long long time.


----------



## devhen

linglingjr said:


> Wow I'm getting a G109s! It's still overseas though.  I'll finally get the most out of my HD600s now that they have a good dac/amp and I'll be ready for LCD-2s in a very long long time.


 
  
 Nice! Congrats.


----------



## Advent75

linglingjr said:


> Wow I'm getting a G109s! It's still overseas though.  I'll finally get the most out of my HD600s now that they have a good dac/amp and I'll be ready for LCD-2s in a very long long time.



Have you received your new Lake People G109?


----------



## linglingjr

advent75 said:


> Have you received your new Lake People G109?


 
 Yep I did, It came a few weeks.  Upgrading from a Fiio E9 I've noticed a ton more detail in the highs and a little bit better overall separation.  It doesn't seem like $450 worth of improvement but I guess I'm already reaching the point of diminishing returns.... Or I was just a lot closer to getting the most out of my HD600s before with my fiio stuff.


----------



## Advent75

Thanks. Guess price of new amp minus price of your old amp = $ worth of impr based on your reply (just kidding). In my case, started w/ Magni-Modi and 2 diff HiFiMan models. Then on to Audez'e HP which provided for a higher level of enjoyment to me. I then wondered how the experience would change if I went for a different HP amp, thus the Lake People G109-P which provided for clearer sound, pin-point vol control and added build features. Don't know how to measure the "experience change" except to say I'm pleased very much! The rest of the story is a DAC change which further changed the experience.


----------



## devhen

Looks like the G109 made Tyll's headphone amplifier wall of fame:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers


----------



## irishsammy

I just got a G103-S and I must say it's a great little amp.  I'm still warming to the sound of my HD600s and DT880s with it but it works perfectly for my Mad Dogs...which was the pair I bought it for.  So all is well.  Nice work, Fried!


----------



## R Giskard

Would G109 be a substantial upgrade over the G103 with the K701? These cans demand some current to be driven properly.


----------



## plakat

The G109 is said to be overall more refined (which always sounds suspiciously like ' justifying the price difference' , but both have more than enough power to drive the K701 I'd say. Given its rather low power handling capacity both the G103 with ~1.1W @50Ohm and the G109 with ~1.9W @50Ohm are way beyond what the K701 can digest.
  
 I'd not spend the extra money only to get even more power the headphone cannot take... To me the more interesting features of the G109P vs. G103S/P and G109S are the input options and the relay (protecting the headphones when power cycling). That may be an argument. Or not -- depends on your use case.


----------



## GigArt

Actually AKG K7XX are not so simple to drive. Just one fact I know - recabled K702 in balanced mode with Yulong A28 (over 2W output power) acquire pretty powerful bass.


----------



## plakat

That won't change the fact that the driver will only work reliably with a sustained power level of 200mW...
 A real symmetric amp design will make each stage see only half the load, therefore they may play with more authority.
  
 Given the K701/702s sensivity of 105dB @1mW they will peak at around 123dB -- way beyond healthy levels. I really don't think it comes down to raw power... slew rate may be a factor, and more powerful amps are often better in that regard. Still no reason to upgrade from G103 to G109 I think.


----------



## GigArt

Or maybe it's some kind of balanced mode magic? Hmm... Perhaps there is no need to upgrade in this case with single-ended mode. But I'm not sure though.


----------



## plakat

Well, Lake People will be happy to sell a G109, I'm sure 
 And it is a good amp, no question. I've never heard the G103, but still I'm quite sure that its not a difference in sound that reflects the additional investment. If the other features are of use... then maybe an upgrade is worthwhile.


----------



## HaVoC-28

plakat said:


> That won't change the fact that the driver will only work reliably with a sustained power level of 200mW...
> A real symmetric amp design will make each stage see only half the load, therefore they may play with more authority.
> 
> 
> Given the K701/702s sensivity of 105dB @1mW they will peak at around 123dB -- way beyond healthy levels. I really don't think it comes down to raw power... slew rate may be a factor, and more powerful amps are often better in that regard. Still no reason to upgrade from G103 to G109 I think.


 

  
 It's dB /V not dB/mW for K7XX/Q701 wich translate to 93 dB/mW for  this models .


----------



## plakat

Correct -- obviously a whole day looking at my computer screen does not work out too well regarding details late at night 
 So it tops out quite a bit earlier, but the driver still is toast when confronted with the (full) output of either the G103 or the G109.


----------



## HaVoC-28

plakat said:


> Correct -- obviously a whole day looking at my computer screen does not work out too well regarding details late at night
> So it tops out quite a bit earlier, but the driver still is toast when confronted with the (full) output of either the G103 or the G109.


 

 yep , better invest in a side grade or better headphone to have another "coloration" , than moving up with G109 .


----------



## digitallc

Just got a G103-S, and am loving the sound with my Light Harmonic Geek Out 1000 and HD800. Audio nirvana.


----------



## plakat

Congratulation!
It will serve you well... I think its a good example of studio equipment: what was saved on design and enclosure went into audio quality..


----------



## HiSenn5

Received my G109-S today. Works perfectly with my HD650. Great Tonal Balance, solid construction. Can't wait to use it with a HD800.


----------



## plakat

Thats interesting... would not have thought that the combination with the HD650 works out as the G109 is a touch warmer than neutral itself. Which might work well with the HD800 on the other hand...


----------



## HiSenn5

plakat said:


> Thats interesting... would not have thought that the combination with the HD650 works out as the G109 is a touch warmer than neutral itself. Which might work well with the HD800 on the other hand...


 

 I wouldn't call it warm. But you're right, there's a tad more bottom/lower mids in it which leads to a fuller sound impression. It gets more obvious with my K701 and K601.
  
 Any impressions/experiences with the dt880 coupled with the G109?


----------



## 0rangutan

The G109 drove my 600 Ohm DT880's beautifully.
It also works magic with my HE-4's. I have stopped auditioning amps now - I don't see how I can find a better one at the price of the G109.


----------



## Oneiric Moor

0rangutan said:


> The G109 drove my 600 Ohm DT880's beautifully.
> It also works magic with my HE-4's. I have stopped auditioning amps now - I don't see how I can find a better one at the price of the G109.


 
 Same here, G109 + 880/600 ohm, great combo!


----------



## HiSenn5

0rangutan said:


> The G109 drove my 600 Ohm DT880's beautifully.
> It also works magic with my HE-4's. I have stopped auditioning amps now - I don't see how I can find a better one at the price of the G109.


 
  


oneiric moor said:


> Same here, G109 + 880/600 ohm, great combo!


 

 Interesting. Had the dt880 250 Ohm version for a while and found the treble to be very fatigueing. I'd love to try them with the G109. Is there any difference between the 250 and the 600, fatigue wise?


----------



## guy3134

anyone here have 103 with hd600?


----------



## Oneiric Moor

hisenn5 said:


> Interesting. Had the dt880 250 Ohm version for a while and found the treble to be very fatigueing. I'd love to try them with the G109. Is there any difference between the 250 and the 600, fatigue wise?


 
 Sorry, I never heard the 250 ohm version.


----------



## digitallc

How exactly do I access the gain switches on the G 103?


----------



## HiSenn5

digitallc said:


> How exactly do I access the gain switches on the G 103?


 
 You have to unscrew the 4 bolts on the top, two at the front, two at the back. The middle of the housing is made of two parts (top and bottom). After that, you just need to lift the top.


----------



## GigArt

digitallc said:


> How exactly do I access the gain switches on the G 103?



I wonder what's inside G103. Please take a photo if you can


----------



## guy3134

guy3134 said:


> anyone here have\tested 103 with hd600?


----------



## linglingjr

Well I got LCD-2.2s a couple days ago and I wasn't very impressed.  Specifically the lack of detail and how quickly the highs roll off compared to the HD600s.  I tried switching the gain on the G109 to +12db for a day or two because you know "Hard to drive orthos" and wasn't impressed at all bass presence seemed almost obnoxious,  switched back to +0db yesterday and I'm liking them a bit more.  I know there's quite a few people here with LCD-2s and lake people G109s, what gain settings do you use?  
  
 I'm almost considering switching to HD800s but I don't want to give up on the Audezes quite yet.


----------



## linglingjr

digitallc said:


> How exactly do I access the gain switches on the G 103?


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers-page-2
  
 Pop off the top and there are nice little jumpers that let you switch it.  They should be labeled, it's pretty self explanatory.


----------



## 0rangutan

Hmm... Sounds rather like my memory of the LCD2's signature rather than an issue with the G109.
I use my 109 on the medium gain setting with my very inefficient HE-4's and they sound superb.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Headfonia just did a review on the G109S


----------



## Tuneslover

Thanks for the Thomann.de link for ordering a Lake People G109-S. I ordered one earlier today (July 2, 2014)...looking forward to it.


----------



## fdg

@ Tuneslover
 Take care !
 What Lake People delivers to Thomann is normally set to 230 V Mains supply.
 So it can be that your ordered item is not set to 115 V AC nor has the correct power cord !
  
 Best Regards
  
 Fried Reim (CEO of Lake People)


----------



## devhen

Yeah for amps set to 115 V AC you'll probably want to either order direct from Lake People via PayPal (instructions in the first post) or it looks like they have a new U.S. web store you can order from:
  
 http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers


----------



## Tuneslover

Thanks for the "heads up" Fried. I did request to ensure that they send me a correct North American compatible (115V) unit. Also hopefully they also noticed that my unit is being mailed to Canada. I did receive a confirmation email earlier today notifying me that the unit has been sent. Soon we'll see what they sent me.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hi Fried! I just want to make you aware that Thomann responded to me with respect to the potential voltage issue with the unit that is currently en route to me in Canada. They indicated that the unit works either way and that all I need to do is use a North American power cord (and toss out, I assume the German power cord).

I forwarded their response to your email address. If possible, please have a look at it. I would appreciate your advise.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hello again Fried, I received another response from Thomann with respect to how my G109S voltage has been set. They indicated that the manufacture's specifications say that the unit has auto sensing and adjusts automatically to the required voltage. If correct that would be awesome. Would you care to comment on this? Thanks!


----------



## Tuneslover

Well I received my Lake People G109S from Germany's Thomann International today. Indeed it came with a German power cord, however as suggested by the Thomann technical experts I should simply substitute it with a North American 115V power cord, connect it to my source and power it up. Which I did...and...drum roll...it worked perfectly.

Naturally I gave it a brief listen and it certainly sounded pleasing (much more "mature" sounding than my Schiit Magni). I'll run it in for about 150 hours before I give further impressions. Good news about the auto voltage selector and a great price to boot (I wasn't charged duty or taxes...bonus).


----------



## fdg

@Tuneslover
  
 Sorry to come back to you so late - I was busy with lots of other things like bringing V220 / V281 on its way in the last days.

 The information from Thomann, that G109 has an autosensing power supply is definetely wrong.
 I should know !
 All our headphone amps from the Lake People G 1xx series and the F 3xx series and the Violectric amps own standard transformers because of the sound.
 These transformers may be set to 230 *OR* 115 V AC supply. European models are set to 230 V ex works.

 When a unit is set to 115 V AC supply (ex works) this can easly been recognized by a sticker on the back panel reading "115 V AC".
 This sticker covers the standard silk screening on the back cover reading "230 V   115 V" which indicates that the unit may be set to 115 V AC (covers the range from 85 to 125 V AC).
 There are also auto sensing devices in the Lake People and Violectric production range.
 Here the back is marked "90 - 250 V AC" to indicate an autoranging switch-mode supply. See drawings from the F 4xx and F 6xx series on the web.

 Why it still sounds so good is easy to explain:
 Your G109-S (set to 230 V AC but connected to 110/120 V AC  supply) now runs with only half of the intended internal supply voltage.
 This will not bother the overall quality of the amps nor the sound under normal conditions - but it will half the max output voltage swing which is noticeable when high impedance headphones are connected. The output power now is only 50% which may violate the performance when extremely hungry low impedance headphones are connected.
 Also the max input voltage is reduced to +15 dB instead of +21 dB what is relevant only in a professional environment.
 Further hum may appear as parts of the internal power conditioning are not working due to the halfed internal voltage.
 If you would have the G109-P model, chances are high to not hear anything because the relay which is responsible for the delayed switch-on will not properly work (or only by chance).
  
 Again, the operation of a European 230 V model in a 110/120 V environment is absolutely safe (!!) and will not bother the sound (or only little) under "normal" circumstances.
 However, the full performance can only be achieved when set to the correct AC mains voltage.
  
 If in doubt, contact www.Violectric-USA.com for more details.
  
 Best Regards
  
 Fried Reim (CEO of Lake People / Violectric)


----------



## Tuneslover

That truly is a bummer. I will need to contact Thomann.de and see if I can return this unit in exchange for a 115v unit. Thanks for getting back to me Fried.


----------



## plakat

fdg said:


> The information from Thomann, that G109 has an autosensing power supply is definetely wrong. *I should know !*


 
  
 Bonus points for that one 
 I guess its always nice to hear people talking about your products and giving out wrong info.


----------



## Tuneslover

Will any of these headphones performance be compromised with my LP G109S being set at 230V while running under the North American 115V:
  
 HiFiMan HE500 @ 38 ohms
 Grado SR80 @ 32 ohms
 Shure SRH840 @ 44 ohms
  
 Also, can you describe what is involved in changing the setting from 230V to 115V that I can share with an electronics technician here in Canada.  When they see the back of the unit they will immediately assume it is a switching unit and most likely will suggest that all is fine (just like the folks at Thomann International have done).  Thanks Fried.


----------



## digitallc

tuneslover said:


> That truly is a bummer. I will need to contact Thomann.de and see if I can return this unit in exchange for a 115v unit. Thanks for getting back to me Fried.


 
 I got my G103-S from Violectric USA, sold with North American power cords and pre-set to North American voltage  - http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers , as noted by Fried Reim. 
  
 Very pleased with the prompt email response and quick shipping.


----------



## Tuneslover

I ordered a Simran AC-200 Stepup Voltage Converter Transformer which will convert our North American 110V to my G109-S pre-set 220V. I will be able to use the German power cord that came with my unit. It arrives on Tuesday, I am very interested to hear how my HiFiMan 500's will sound then.


----------



## plakat

If I interpret Frieds posts correctly it should be rather easy to change that setting, so no stepup transformer is necessary I guess.


----------



## Tuneslover

Which post no. is that because this would have been my preferred choice but the transformer should work as well.


----------



## plakat

In post #181 Fried talks about the unit being set to either 230V or 120V, I understand that as the transformer having 2 primary coils which are selected by a jumper. Otherwise he might have noted that there are different units available...
  
 Maybe you can ask Violectric US for details on that (I faintly remember the manual mentioning some jumper settings inside, but that may be just the gain and I don't own the G109 anymore). Otherwise you might want to screw it open and take a look... it might be easy to identify. Might void your warranty btw.


----------



## Tuneslover

I actually sent Fried an email asking him to send me a schematic/picture and pointing out where the setting can be changed, along with a brief easy to understand set of instructions so that I can have an electronics technician re-set it to 115V. I know he's a busy man and probably can't get back to me too quickly (besides he's probably been partying it up because of Germany's World Cup victory...LOL). No biggie because the transformer should do the trick anyway.


----------



## plakat

I think you'll be better off asking their US representatives... the CEO might not be the right person for that kind of question 
 I did not find any related information online, sorry.


----------



## devhen

Fried mentioned in an earlier post (quite a while ago, cant remember which post) that the end-user can in fact change the AC mains voltage on their own but it requires a little soldering. I think you're right, your best bet is to get in touch with Lake People and ask for instructions and then do it yourself or have a professional do it for you if you don't feel comfortable. But it should be fairly easy. Let us know what you learn.


----------



## Tuneslover

Actually Fried and I have been emailing one another regarding my voltage issue. Essentially the Step Up Transformer (which arrived today) has resolved everything. All is good on that front. He also sent me schematics and instructions on how to re-set the voltage to 115V if I choose to go this route. Truly awesome support and customer service in a very personalized manner by the CEO himself. Top shelf person and product. It just doesn't get better than that!

I have been listening to music all evening long and I'm absolutely mesmerized at how good it sounds. Highly recommended headphone amp.


----------



## irishsammy

Listening to my G-103S with my HD600's.  Normally, I would insist on tubes for these cans but I'll be damned if the LP amp doesn't make them sing pretty darn well.  The songs em Portuges on Melody Gardot's latest album have a tendency to get a little busy but the G103 has some iron-fisted control. 
  
 Great stuff from Lake People.  Great job, Fried.


----------



## headwhacker

Is it possible to change the gain for G103-S or have a custom gain levels. I'm afraid the low gain setting is not low enough for sensitive low impendance phones and would not have much tracking range with volume control.


----------



## i019791

No.
 You have to go for their higher models, which use pre-gain.


----------



## 0rangutan

headwhacker said:


> Is it possible to change the gain for G103-S or have a custom gain levels. I'm afraid the low gain setting is not low enough for sensitive low impendance phones and would not have much tracking range with volume control.


 

 Yes, there are two gain settings, but the jumpers are inside the case so not something that you would want to change regularly.


----------



## headwhacker

0rangutan said:


> Yes, there are two gain settings, but the jumpers are inside the case so not something that you would want to change regularly.




I know about the gain switch which defaults to 2.5X and 5X. For very sensitive headphones and iems 2.5X is too much especially if your source puts out > 1.5Vrms line out signal like DX90 and ODAC.

I just wish their entry level amp has the -4 and +14 gain by default, or at least can be customized. I don't need more than 2 settings. I just need 1 low gain for sensitive phones and iem and the higher gain for 600-Ohm phones.


----------



## Tuneslover

Anyone residing in countries that are on 115V be warned that if you order any Lake People headphone amps from Thomann.de they will send you a pre-set 230V unit. After ordering mine I thought that I should clarify that I live in North America and would need the 115V pre-set model, however Thomann assured me that I could simply swap the German power cord for a North American one and all would be fine...so they ignored my request and sent me a pre-set 230V unit anyway.

Fried Reim, the Lake People CEO, made it very clear that my unit will work but will not achieve it's full potential pre-set this way (see post #181). Thomann.de was made aware of this concern and even after numerous emails to them they simply chose to disregard my situation. Fried provided me with illustrated photo shots and simple instructions on how to re-set my unit to 115V. The other option was to simply purchase a Step Up Transformer (Amazon $27) to convert my in-coming voltage from 115V to 230V. It worked perfectly and I got to use the German power cord.

Morale of this story...if your native voltage is 115V...DO NOT buy from Thomann.de!!


----------



## devhen

transparentholo said:


> Well my Lake People G109-S just came. Liking it a lot so far, I like the gain being from factory at +0 (pre-gain), and may consider even moving it to the -12dB (pre-gain) setting as I do most of my listening on high sensitivity, low impedance headphones. It's nice that I can get almost half a knob of effective volume.
> 
> Additionally, it seems to increase bass response, which would lead me to agree with the warm/dark character of this amp. I'm liking it a lot. Switching back and forth between Schiit Magni and this, The G109-S's bass is more pronounced and well defined, and decays faster, and the Highs are less grainy. And of course, Schiit Magni had channel imbalance issues at low volume, probably due to it's internal gain setting, G109-S has no channel imbalance at all, which is nice.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Magni is widely regarded as a pretty bright amp so it might be that the G109 is neutral and you're just used to the Magni's signature.


----------



## devhen

tuneslover said:


> Anyone residing in countries that are on 115V be warned that if you order any Lake People headphone amps from Thomann.de they will send you a pre-set 230V unit. After ordering mine I thought that I should clarify that I live in North America and would need the 115V pre-set model, however Thomann assured me that I could simply swap the German power cord for a North American one and all would be fine...so they ignored my request and sent me a pre-set 230V unit anyway.
> 
> Fried Reim, the Lake People CEO, made it very clear that my unit will work but will not achieve it's full potential pre-set this way (see post #181). Thomann.de was made aware of this concern and even after numerous emails to them they simply chose to disregard my situation. Fried provided me with illustrated photo shots and simple instructions on how to re-set my unit to 115V. The other option was to simply purchase a Step Up Transformer (Amazon $27) to convert my in-coming voltage from 115V to 230V. It worked perfectly and I got to use the German power cord.
> 
> Morale of this story...if your native voltage is 115V...DO NOT buy from Thomann.de!!


 
  
 Care to share the photos and instructions Fried gave you in case other head-fi'ers find themselves in that same situation? Thanks


----------



## linglingjr

devhen said:


> Care to share the photos and instructions Fried gave you in case other head-fi'ers find themselves in that same situation? Thanks


 
 I'd really appreciate this as well.  I bought my G109s in December and it came with the German cord too.  I wonder how much of a difference it would make driving LCD-2s.


----------



## Tuneslover

Ok here you go, this is what Fried sent me.  There are 6 pages in above attachment.  Each page has 2 images and instructions under each image.
 Page 1 is top left...Page 2 is top right...Page 3 is 2nd from top left...Page 4 is 2nd from top right...and so on.


----------



## Tuneslover

...OR...you can simply purchase a STEP UP TRANSFORMER from Amazon (I have the Simran AC200-W)...set it to your native voltage (mine is 110V)...plug in the German power cord (round head with the 2 prongs) into the TRANSFORMER...the other end into the G109S...turn the TRANSFORMER on...turn the G109S on...and the TRANSFORMER will step up your 110V to 220V to your pre-set 220V G109S.


----------



## Tuneslover

I agree with Devhen that the Magni is bright sounding (I also have the Magni). The G109S is a much nicer sounding amp, refined, well controlled power, perfectly balanced from top to bottom. Simply amplifies the source without adding any signature of it's own.


----------



## Tuneslover

Incidentally, the images from Fried that I just posted on this thread are obviously not the G109S. He indicated that the internals of the Violectric model is very similar to the G109S.


----------



## linglingjr

Thanks for the info.  Just bough a step up converter instead, can't really go wrong for $20 plus it saves resale value of amp imo.  bought the same one you have actually haha hope it has worked well for you.


----------



## devhen

Thanks @Tuneslover! That info will probably come in handy for other head-fi'ers in the future. I'll link to it from the first post.


----------



## Headfire

Hi all,
  
 I've got my G109-P and enjoy listetning to them. I may write some impressions near future.
  
 Anyway, I want to say here, if you are interested in LP product and you don't have local distributer in your country, I recommend you to buy them directly from LP. As for those have looked through this thread might have already recoginezed it.


----------



## torta

Any one uses G103 with Hifiman or Mrspeakers headphones?


----------



## 0rangutan

torta said:


> Any one uses G103 with Hifiman or Mrspeakers headphones?


 
  
 I used to before I upgraded to a G109.
 Sounded fantastic with HE-5's and (my favourites) HE-4's.
 The G109 + HE-4's has ended up as the perfect system for me and I have finally stopped looking for anything else.


----------



## torta

Thank you,
 Any particular change I sound signature going from 103 to 109? I don't need much power for 400i and Alpha dog, and 103s specifications seem quite adequate.


----------



## 0rangutan

No obvious change in signature.
 I mostly bought the G109 to stop any nagging doubts about whether it would sound much better than the G103.
 They are very similar and both are bargains at the full list price.


----------



## torta

Ok, could you share sentence or two comparing them to Lyr ?


----------



## 0rangutan

They sound similar but slightly better than the Lyr with the same level of control but a smoother sound.
 Far more importantly, they won't damage your headphones like the Lyr can.  The Lyr is poorly engineered with no start up protection and using one blew a driver on my Beyer T70's.  Won't ever buy Schiit again and in particular *I would strongly advise against using the Lyr* for this reason.


----------



## plakat

I don't think that this problem with the Lyr still exists... nevertheless I'm sorry to hear that it killed your T70.
  
 For me that way one reason to choose the G109P: it was the only model that had protective relais in the output.


----------



## TontonJoK

They put a relay on the lyr's but lots owners complain about them humming or hissing, LP amps are dead quiet


----------



## guy3134

anyone here have experience with g103s and hd600?


----------



## linglingjr

tontonjok said:


> They put a relay on the lyr's but lots owners complain about them humming or hissing, LP amps are dead quiet


 
 I have a G109S an it's dead quiet too but when I adjust volume it totally hums, even if I just put my hand on it.  Is that normal interference with the potentiometer?


----------



## uelover

linglingjr said:


> I have a G109S an it's dead quiet too but when I adjust volume it totally hums, even if I just put my hand on it.  Is that normal interference with the potentiometer?




My G109P is totally quiet even when adjusting the volume. I think yours is not normal. Most likely a grounding issue?


----------



## Headfire

linglingjr said:


> I have a G109S an it's dead quiet too but when I adjust volume it totally hums, even if I just put my hand on it.  Is that normal interference with the potentiometer?


 

 I had a same issue with my 109P when I use RCA inputs. Weirdly, It has been solved by using XLR inputs. Ive been thinking asking about this issue to Freid, but not yet.


----------



## linglingjr

headfire said:


> I had a same issue with my 109P when I use RCA inputs. Weirdly, It has been solved by using XLR inputs. Ive been thinking asking about this issue to Freid, but not yet.




Well that makes me feel better. Yeah I've only ever had a cmoy amp and a fiio e9 before the lake people. Both did the same thing with the potentiometer but they also weren't dead quiet ever either.


----------



## devhen

I'm using my G109-S with rca inputs and I get no noise when changing volume and overall the amp is 100% silent even at max volume (when nothing is playing of course).


----------



## plakat

Yes, sounds like an issue with electrical ground. maybe the ground is not connected at (behind) the wall socket? If so that can be a security risk, let someone check that. I don't think its a fault of the amp.


----------



## irishsammy

guy3134 said:


> anyone here have experience with g103s and hd600?


 

 Absolutely.  My HD600's sound VERY good with my G103S.  It's actually one of the only SS amps I will let touch the drivers of the Senns.  It gives them a touch more energy but it doesn't try to alter that nice, smooth, neutral signature that the HD600's have.  Very, very good pairing.


----------



## torta

How does it sound with Mad Dogs? I have Alphadog that would need amp.


----------



## irishsammy

torta said:


> How does it sound with Mad Dogs? I have Alphadog that would need amp.


 

 I'm listening to my MDs with the G103 right now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It has no trouble at all keeping up with the black hole of power that these cans present.  Smooth and dynamic.  Great stuff.   
  
 I have also used the Schiit Magni with the MDs and that is an amazingly competent little amp, too.  Especially considering the price.  It's peakier (not as smooth) with the MDs but it tends to bring out more detail in some situations.  I prefer the sound of the G103 by a comfortable margin but if you absolutely had to live with the Magni, you shouldn't feel like you're slummin' it.


----------



## Headfire

I've made contact to Freid and he suggested to change ground lift jumper position.


----------



## Tuneslover

I just need to explode...listening to Joe Walsh via NAD C542, Schiit Bifrost, Lake People G109S, HiFiMan HE500...audio nirvana! Simply an awesome ensemble. Which component rules? Who cares! It's all good! Thanks to all!


----------



## irishsammy

tuneslover said:


> I just need to explode...listening to Joe Walsh via NAD C542, Schiit Bifrost, Lake People G109S, HiFiMan HE500...audio nirvana! Simply an awesome ensemble. Which component rules? Who cares! It's all good! Thanks to all!


 

 It's these moments that we all strive for.  If we can stop obsessing about gear.  Congrats!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Subbed. Highly considering the G109. How are people feeling about this amp so far? I still see no reviews posted. It's basically a toss-up between this and the Meier Corda Classic for me at this point.


----------



## plakat

Both good amps and well worth their money. I'd say the Classic is a bit more neutral, while the G109 does have a slightly warm touch. If you need/want crossfeed is another question that may help decide... if yes, the Classics implementation is one of the best I guess.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

plakat said:


> Both good amps and well worth their money. I'd say the Classic is a bit more neutral, while the G109 does have a slightly warm touch. If you need/want crossfeed is another question that may help decide... if yes, the Classics implementation is one of the best I guess.




Hmmm thank you. That's kind of the impression I got from project86's impressions too, that it was just slightly warm. Both sound like they are amazing amps.


----------



## plakat

liu junyuan said:


> Hmmm thank you. That's kind of the impression I got from project86's impressions too, that it was just slightly warm. Both sound like they are amazing amps.


 

 Besides the obvious difference (one has crossfeed, the other does not) I think it comes down to neutral vs. neutral with a touch softer treble. Both have internal transformers (i.e. no wall warts), solid build quality. The G109 offers XLR inputs (but is not a balanced amp) with, I think, RCA taking priority (i.e. no manual switching), the Classic offers 2 RCA inputs that can be switched on the front.


----------



## blacknile

What's the output impedance (at the jack) of the G103s and the G109s? I can't seem to find this info on the manufacturer's website.
  
 EDIT - it was in the manuals: <0.2ohm for the G109 and <0.1ohm for the G103.


----------



## guy3134

irishsammy said:


> Absolutely.  My HD600's sound VERY good with my G103S.  It's actually one of the only SS amps I will let touch the drivers of the Senns.  It gives them a touch more energy but it doesn't try to alter that nice, smooth, neutral signature that the HD600's have.  Very, very good pairing.


 
 i bought at the end he-500, i wonder if they per well with them, unleas i'd need more power


----------



## xaval

guy3134 said:


> i bought at the end he-500, i wonder if they per well with them, unleas i'd need more *power*


 
 What do you think? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Max. output level:
     > 17.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 530 mW
     > 16.0 Veff in 300 ohms = 850 mW
     > 13.7 Veff in 200 ohms = 940 mW
*    > 7.5 Veff in 50 ohms = 1130 mW
     > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 890 mW*


----------



## 0rangutan

You won't need more power with the G109.
 Mine powers a pair of HE-4's superbly and they are harder to drive than pretty much anything other than HE-6's.


----------



## plakat

Neither the G109 nor the Classic are underpowered, both should drive most headphones without breaking a sweat.


----------



## BlueMountain

Hi,
  
 i am looking for a new headphone amp / dac combination for over a year now, as my currently used fiio e10 is not fully functioning anymore. 
  
 At first i thought, well lets pick up another fiio e10, but i always feel, that i am missing sth. at least compared to my speaker amplifiers headphone jack (It is a Yamaha, so most likely not dead neutral, but has so much power in comparison to the fiio). Most noticeable is the fiios relatively small soundstage and its lack of energy/impact in the bass region and to some degree the imaging of instruments. This is especially noticeable at orchestral/cinematic music (hans zimmer, john williams). But then again its only 80€. So for that its not all that bad 
  
 My headphones in uses are Sennheiser HD600, Beyerdynamic DT990Pro, AKG K272HD, Sennheisers HD540 Reference, Sennheiser HD555, Creative Aurvana Live 2 and some In-Ears like the Shure SE215k and some other non important circumaural headphones and in ears.
  
 As you can see the headphones are quite different in soundsignature and impedance. At some time earlier this year, i thought, that a tube-amplifier would be a good choice, but at the end, i don't think its a good pick, as i have such a variety of headphones with different impedances. Schiit was out of the question aswell, as i heard very often, that they tend to be bright, which would be overkill for an already brighter headphone like the dt990pro. Audio gd has also quite a unique soundsignature and some problems with usb/gapless playbacks, so they were relatively quick out of the pick aswell. 
  
 After each (extensive) research for a new headphone amp i get always stuck at the lake people(violectric) headphone amps.

 Now to the questions:
 Which lake people amp would be adequate (g103s vs g109s) for my headphones?
 Can i expect a noticable difference to a fiio e10 with either of them?
 Would you say, that the extra 200€ between the g103s and the g109s is a huge step and a must?
 Which DAC would be a good choice? (odac, modi, cdac, hrt, etc,...)
  
 Pls keep in mind, that i am currently studying and dont want to spent too much, unless its absolutely neccessary 
  
 Thank you very much in advance


----------



## xaval

@Blue Mountain: Sennheiser HD600, Beyerdynamic DT990Pro and Sennheisers HD540 Reference are headphones that benefit from a good amp and all of them scale well, with the HD600 scaling insanely well (4 digit, high quality amps keep milking the goods with it!). I think moving up from a Fiio to any of the amps listed will be a quite the upgrade.
  
 Regarding the 200€ difference between 103 and 109 models - and I have never heard any of them - what I advise is, if 200€ is a stretch, go with the 103. Straining yourself finantially, from an emotional and empty walletness perspective is an uneeded stress. I doubt 200€ will perform miracles albeit the 109 most probably being a step up in quality to he 103. You have a full life ahead of you of upgrades 
  
 As for the DAC, if you're getting a new one, I'd suggest you get the amp and get to know it's sound with your cans. After you figure out it's strengths and weaknesses it will be easier to figure which DAC will fit your system better.
  
 It's a good thing to build a system from headphones looking backwards to the source. Get a can, then it's amp, then it's DAC/source, leave HF. Done.


----------



## BlueMountain

@xaval
  
 thank you very much for your helpfull and quick response to my questions.  I realy appreciate it .
  
 I guess i will stick to your recommendation. Go backwards from the headphones, to an lake people amp connected to my yamaha player and then to a fitting dac.
 So my next stop will be the amp.
  
 As christmas isn't far away i will think about the choice between the two amps, but from a financial standpoint i am leaning towards the g103s.
  
@all 
  
 I would be very happy to read/hear some further impressions and experiences about your amp choice so that i have even more guidance to the right amp. 

 Thank you


----------



## plakat

@BlueMountain I think the G103 will just fit you fine. Personally I did not hear it (I once owned the G109P), but read good things about it and, given Lake peoples pedigree, have no hesitation recommending it. Just dont forget @xaval s last point:
  


xaval said:


> Get a can, then it's amp, then it's DAC/source, leave HF. Done.


 
  
 That's an important part... otherwise the 200€ saved are... well, gone soon 
  
 Btw: John Grandberg liked both quite a bit in his review at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers


----------



## BlueMountain

@plakat, Thank you very much for your recommendation. I will follow the advice to buy the amp alone and after some time the dac. 
  
 The review from Innferfidelity was quite interesting, especially the description about the different sound signature was helpfull.
 At the same time it creates a view more questions.

 E.g. Which soundsiganture fits better to my headphones.The warmer g103, or the more resolving and neutral g109. 
 The added warmth of the g103 would certainly fit the Beyerdynamic and the Sennheiser signature, but the description of the highs to be "bland" do worry me quite a bit.

 Oviously in the end i have to make that decision on my own, but how significant would you see the description of the highs beeing "bland"?

 Ps. I don't want to derail the thread too much with pre purchase advices, so if anyone has an advice he could also write me a pm. Thank you


----------



## xaval

Most users tend to possess more headphones than amps and sources. With this said, I'd think that on amps and sources one would be better advised to shoot for as much neutrality as possible. This way you'll have a ground that won't conflict too much with the headphone collection too much.
 On the other hand, sometimes it works to have say, a warm source paired with a cold amp, or vice versa - they neutralize themselves, so to speak.
  
 Of course, this is just scratching the surface of something we all are deficient, some more than others obviously, which is "perspective". How much gear are we familiar with as to build a frame of reference to what each of words we use to characterize music like, neutrality, resolution, imaging, bass, treble... bland, etc?
  
 This not easy and sometimes, the more we think we learn, the more questions are raised.
  
 Not summarizing, but trying to move forward, evident colorations, like "warmth", imo are best left for the headphones which, by the way, make the most significant difference in the overal sound "quality" of an audio system. Of course, I think you can never have, for example, too much resolution 
  
 No personal opinion will ever replace your own empirical experience in this hobby. So... don't make things too complicated to yourself and get what seems to be the best choice for your current conditions.


----------



## i019791

xaval said:


> Most users tend to possess more headphones than amps and sources. With this said, I'd think that on amps and sources one would be better advised to shoot for as much neutrality as possible. This way you'll have a ground that won't conflict too much with the headphone collection too much.


 
 Thousands of tube amps owners (and not only those) have likely a different opinion on "as much neutrality as possible".


----------



## plakat

@BlueMountain I think you can use and enjoy the G103 for quite some time. There will always be something better just out of reach -- these small steps lead straight to disaster 

Plus: don't start at the top: it's only down from there... Aim for a middle ground where performance/ price is good. Appreciating minor differences will only come with time and training, no need to be worried about a professional listener nitpicking on a decent amp. He liked it quite a bit I think...


----------



## guy3134

anyone have experienced\tested he500 with g109s?


----------



## Tuneslover

Hey guy3134, I have both...very nice combo.


----------



## guy3134

tuneslover said:


> Hey guy3134, I have both...very nice combo.


 
 can you say more about it?


----------



## BlueMountain

I just ordered the G109s. I am so excited  Should be delivered on Saturday but i will only give it a short listen, as this is a christmas present .

 Thanks again @plakat and @xaval for your guidance


----------



## xaval

Merry Xmas


----------



## Tuneslover

Hello again guy3134, sorry for the quick/short response to your query.  I intended to elaborate the next day in a follow-up post as I was heading to bed minutes after reading your post.  Anyway now after a good night's sleep here I am once again.
  
 First off, I'm not sure if you have followed some of my past posts on this thread (starting with post #174, then interspersed up to & including post #231) where I have commented on my G109S experience.  Those impressions were with the HE500.  I'm a much bigger 2 channel audio enthusiast and I am relatively new to serious headphone listening (only about 1 year now).  It was last Christmas that I received the Schiit Modi & Magni combo as a Christmas gift for my computer setup.  That led me to explore and invest in headphone listening equipment.
  
 I began a love affair with Schiit and decided to get the Bifrost DAC for my main audio system and was thrilled how it elevated my 2 channel system's sound.  That led me to move the Magni into the 2 channel system which made me realize how good the headphone experience was.  That's when I thought a "higher end" set of cans were in order which resulted in the purchase of the HE500's (after considerable research and auditioning).  Now I was hooked.  But...I couldn't help but think/suspect that the $100 Magni was probably limiting the HE500's potential which resulted in the pursuit of a "higher end" headphone amp.  While in the Schiit Lyr thread (I was pretty much prepared to get the new Lyr 2) a fellow enthusiast remarked on the sound signature I was searching for and recommended the Lake People product.  After researching the G109S I decided it was the amp for me.
  
 So now for my impressions of the G109S/HE500 combo (as compared to the Schiit Magni):
 - Very neutral and honest to the recording (good recordings sound heavenly, lowsy recordings sound...yeah lowsy) where the Magni is more homogenous sounding.
 - Effortless and relaxed power which "navigates" the HE500's beautifully (as well as my HD650's) while the Magni can get a bit strained and harsh sounding when pushed (it is a bright amp).
 - Natural soundstage, less forward/in-your-face than the Magni.  Especially with the HE500's expansive soundstage, plenty of detail and air.
 - Bass is plentiful and refined as compared to the Magni although the Magni seems to punch hard but is much less musical than the G109S.
 - Mids & Treble are nicely refined spreading out a very controlled soundstage which is very important with the revealing HE500's.  The Magni is too bright/screechy sounding on many recordings.
 Note:  To be fair to the Magni, it cost 1/6 that of the G109S.  For a budget amp it is an incredible piece. 
  
 Overall impression:
 Mission accomplished...my pursuit of a "higher end" headphone system has been achieved with the G109S and HE500.  I am always satisfied with this rig...but would more be better, of course a pair of Audeze LC3 or X would be nirvana but for my budget and extent of headphone listening time this will do very nicely.  As eluded to earlier, I recently purchased the HD650's just to give me another headphone flavour.  The HD650's are very good as well (in it's polite & relaxed, yet still immersive way).  The HD650's scale more noticeably (from the Magni to the G109S) than the HE500's but the HE500's are still my "go to" cans...simply because that's the sound that I like.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hey BlueMountain, Merry Christmas indeed!  I'm not sure if you are a BURN-IN believer or not (I most certainly am), but before you wrap your new G109S up for Christmas do yourself a favour and run it in for a few days that way you'll have a ready-to-enjoy amp Christmas morning.  I connected an old crappy pair of headphones to my unit and ran iTunes randomly and continuously for 3-4 days as my burn-in procedure.
  
 ENJOY!!


----------



## plakat

bluemountain said:


> I just ordered the G109s. I am so excited  Should be delivered on Saturday but i will only give it a short listen, as this is a christmas present .
> 
> Thanks again @plakat and @xaval for your guidance


 

 Sounds like christmas came early this year 
 Congratulations... the G109 is a very capable amp that can power quite diverse headphones. You'll have lots of fun with it. Even if you spare yourself the hassle of any burn-in, which has no proven effect especially in electronics. Give it a listen, pack it up and enjoy the wait -- well worth it.


----------



## BlueMountain

Hi @Tuneslover, 

 thank you for your warm words . I am realy looking forward to hear with my new amp .

 Regarding burn-in: At least for some of my headphones, burn-in was defenitely a real thing.
 Eventhough an amp has no moveable drivers to my knowledge (  ) i guess it could well be a real thing. 
 I've read, that some manufactures do a burn-in, before delivery, aswell. So i will defenitely do an extensive burn-in session. 
  
 At first the G109S will be connected via rca to my Yamaha dvd/cd player (e600mk2).
 Later on i want to use the amp with my notebook aswell.
 Therefore i need an usb-dac (with rca outputs), so i can connect the G109S with my notebook. Eventhough i have to hear the amp for myself, so i can chose the right dac, i would like to know, which dac are you currently using?

 Thank you very much in advance and have a good time with your Amp 

 EDIT: @plakat  It was a hard choice between the g109 and the g103, but i think i made the right decission and the time without the amp until christmas will be realy hard


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## plakat

@BlueMountain  While every manufacturer with even a hint of quality control does run every item for a few hours before shipping it out (and might call that burn-in) thats more to assess correct function and operation within specification than any hope for "making it better". But you're of course free to do as you like... you just don't have to feel left out if you decide against.
  
 Regarding G103 vs. G109: while I've never heard the smaller amp, the G109 does feel more substantial and I always liked the bigger volume control better. Its the top product for studio use by a company that builds headphone amps for I think 20 years now. Its a very solid amp and won't nag you with the thought about the 'bigger model' as the G103 might have done


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## blacknile

Hi, I just took delivery of a G109P from Thomann (B-stock). Based on quick first impressions, I have to say it sounds marvellous both with my DT990 600ohm and with my Grado SR325is. However...
  
 I am experiencing some very strong hissing at very low volume (say 1st/2nd/3rd position on the pot, so below audible music levels) with my low impedance Grados (32ohm). The hissing seems to disappear as you turn the pot clockwise and it's gone at about 8 o'clock on the pot. 
  
 What's more interesting, the hissing varies in intensity as you move the headphone cable, suggesting the cable is acting as some sort of antenna? The hissing is not audible using my DT990. When the Grado's headphone cable is closer to the G109p enclosure, the hissing will be strongest. I am on default, factory-set gain by the way.
  
 I've been wondering whether the Grado's cable is poorly shielded, but I don't have other good quality, low impedance headphones lying around. I also tested a pair of cheap Sennheiser PX100 and I can definitely hear hiss as above.
  
 Has anybody else experienced this? Could people with a G109P and low impedance headphones test this?  A pity really, as I'm in awe with the sound I'm getting.


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## Tuneslover

Hi BlueMountain! I'm using the Schiit Modi (and Magni) with my iMac and the Schiit Bifrost with my G109S.


----------



## moriez

blacknile said:


> Hi, I just took delivery of a G109P from Thomann (B-stock). Based on quick first impressions, I have to say it sounds marvellous both with my DT990 600ohm and with my Grado SR325is. However...
> 
> I am experiencing some very strong hissing at very low volume (say 1st/2nd/3rd position on the pot, so below audible music levels) with my low impedance Grados (32ohm). The hissing seems to disappear as you turn the pot clockwise and it's gone at about 8 o'clock on the pot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry about that hiss. Can be very annoying. Especially if it's unclear what's causing is. I just checked with my FAD Pandora VI (8 ohm) and Sony MDR-MA900 (12 ohm) to the G109-P and get zero hiss at the first three positions. If the 990 has no probs if must be those headphones right?
  
 Probably unrelated but are you using RCA or XLR to connect to your source?


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## blacknile

Hi, no XLR, just plain RCA out of an HRT Music Streamer II+. I also tried the RCA output of a Marantz CD63 MK2 KI to similar effect. I wonder whether I got a faulty sample, or whether the unit was marketed as "b-stock" for this exact reason. In any case I've returned the unit for a refund, we'll see what Thomann thinks.


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## plakat

Could indeed be a defective unit. To my experience Lake People build extremely clean amps with proper power supply and shielding.


----------



## moriez

Good call to not waste much time.
  
 Hey plakat, I believe I now own the G109 that you sold to naimless in the beginning of this year


----------



## plakat

@moriez  that may well be the case. Nice to see it still around, was my first headphone-only amp... In the mean time I've made the whole round, coming back to Lake People / Violectric with their V281


----------



## guy3134

i bought 109s, now i need rca cables, where should i get them?(int shipping is must)


----------



## linglingjr

guy3134 said:


> i bought 109s, now i need rca cables, where should i get them?(int shipping is must)


 
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2
  
 You can't beat the price and they work perfectly with my 109s.  
  
 Feel just as high quality as anything else.


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## donaldduck2004

hey guys what amp do you suggest for a pair of fidelio x1 and in the future for a pair of dt770 250 ohm?


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## donaldduck2004

devhen said:


> Hey gelocks. Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Lehmanns, or any of the other high end amps, so I can't compare the G109 to them. I can tell you that I am liking my G109 very much. Its exactly what I thought it would be-- a relatively inexpensive, sturdy & reliable, simple, and very powerful amp. Its not the best option for modding and the like, its more of a 'set it and forget it' amp, and in that regard it is very good. It has enough power to push any headphones out there, possibly even the HE6 though that remains to be seen, and the variable gain settings make it possible to use anything with the G109, from 16 ohm IEMs to 600 ohm full size cans.
> 
> I'm planning on putting together all my thoughts on the G109 and adding it to the OP but I'm mainly hoping that as more people find out about these and get their hands on them that we'll get some feedback as to how they compare to other options like the BCL, Apex Butte, Violectric V200, etc.
> 
> It sounds like you have the opportunity to get a BCL on the cheap, which sounds cool. If you end up going with one of the Lake People amps I'm sure you'll be pretty happy. If saving money is your top priority the G103 might be the perfect choice.


 
 hi devhen,
  
 I'm going to buy an headphone amplifier for my fidelio (in the future I could choose something more serious that you could suggest me).
  
 Do you think the g103-s could be a good choice? in particular for the "low" price...
  
 what sound differences are there between g103 and g109?


----------



## plakat

donaldduck2004 said:


> hi devhen,
> 
> I'm going to buy an headphone amplifier for my fidelio (in the future I could choose something more serious that you could suggest me).
> 
> ...


 

 There is an Innerfidelity review of both models:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers


----------



## donaldduck2004

plakat said:


> There is an Innerfidelity review of both models:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers


 
 oh good but do you think the balanced input could be better than the unbalanced one?
  
 I'll use it with cable to amp near tens of power cable and usb cable behind the pc...
 What do you think?


----------



## plakat

donaldduck2004 said:


> oh good but do you think the balanced input could be better than the unbalanced one?
> 
> I'll use it with cable to amp near tens of power cable and usb cable behind the pc...
> What do you think?


 

 Given my background in Pro Audio I always prefer XLR connections out of habit. I don't think RCA is a problem given the short distance you'll be using on your desk. I have a lot of components (amps, DACs) on my desk with lots of cables, RCA is still not a problem. If in doubt you can try to avoid running power and RCA cables in parallel or at least separate them a bit.
  
 If you're getting the G103 I'd vote for the RCA ('S') version, its more versatile in a home setting. Its also easier and cheaper to get adaptor cables to RCA. If you get the G109 I'd recommend the P version as it offers both XLR and RCA inputs (though unfortunately no input selection switch).


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## donaldduck2004

plakat said:


> Given my background in Pro Audio I always prefer XLR connections out of habit. I don't think RCA is a problem given the short distance you'll be using on your desk. I have a lot of components (amps, DACs) on my desk with lots of cables, RCA is still not a problem. If in doubt you can try to avoid running power and RCA cables in parallel or at least separate them a bit.
> 
> If you're getting the G103 I'd vote for the RCA ('S') version, its more versatile in a home setting. Its also easier and cheaper to get adaptor cables to RCA. If you get the G109 I'd recommend the P version as it offers both XLR and RCA inputs (though unfortunately no input selection switch).


thanks for the suggest but I've found a friend who can sell me it at about 150 Euros the g130p version. The adapter is not difficult to build. So I think I could accept. What do you think?


----------



## plakat

donaldduck2004 said:


> thanks for the suggest but I've found a friend who can sell me it at about 150 Euros the g130p version. The adapter is not difficult to build. So I think I could accept. What do you think?


 

 Sounds like a good price... The adapters are rather simple (and Thomann.de has them on offer for reasonable prices as well), so I don't see any problem there. Using the adapters you will of course not gain anything by using the XLR inputs, but I don't think you'll run into problems at desktop cable lengths anyway.


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## donaldduck2004

plakat said:


> Sounds like a good price....


 
 good! 
  


> Using the adapters you will of course not gain anything by using the XLR inputs, but I don't think you'll run into problems at desktop cable lengths anyway.


 
 It's the same thing I've thougth...
  
  
 anyway I'll use it with a teac ud-h01 (for 200€) or a ud-301 (for 300€)...so no problem with the xlr outputs.
  
 What DAC would you suggest me between them?


----------



## plakat

donaldduck2004 said:


> anyway I'll use it with a teac ud-h01 (for 200€) or a ud-301 (for 300€)...so no problem with the xlr outputs.
> 
> What DAC would you suggest me between them?


 
  
 I know neither, sorry... Personally I don't care about high-res or DSD, so I guess I'd go with the UD-H01. But I guess you'll find owners of both round here.


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## donaldduck2004

hey guys but how can I change gain in the g103p?
  
 Where are the jumper?
  
 Are they sold separately?


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## TontonJoK

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers-page-2


----------



## donaldduck2004

tontonjok said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers-page-2


 
 I've already seen it, but there are 4 combination of positioning the jumpers.Is it easy to recognize the choosen gain?


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## TontonJoK

http://www.lake-people.de/In_Production.html

page 22 and 23


choose g103


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## xaval

donaldduck2004 said:


> hey guys but how can I change gain in the g103p?
> 
> Where are the jumper?
> 
> Are they sold separately?


 
 The jumpers are set upon opening the case. Default value is set to +8
  
Check page 23 for where and how to change the jumpers. There are 4 jumpers - you change these according to what value you want to use.


----------



## guy3134

my god this amp is so good!
 made my he500 to sing


----------



## plakat

Glad you like it! Which version did you get?


----------



## guy3134

plakat said:


> Glad you like it! Which version did you get?


 
 109s


----------



## Tuneslover

guy3134 said:


> my god this amp is so good!
> made my he500 to sing




Yup a great pairing for sure. For Christmas I received a pair of Focus pads for my HE500's. Listening to them through the 109S right now...warmer sounding than the pleather pads, not quite as broad of a soundstage but the bass is much more pronounced.


----------



## guy3134

tuneslover said:


> Yup a great pairing for sure. For Christmas I received a pair of Focus pads for my HE500's. Listening to them through the 109S right now...*warmer sounding *than the pleather pads, not quite as broad of a soundstage but the bass is much more pronounced.


 
 that exactly what i don't want


----------



## Tuneslover

guy3134 said:


> that exactly what i don't want




Yeah I'm still trying to get used to the change in sound and not sure if I prefer the original pleather pads (or that is the reference sound I'm accustomed to...which is what pulled me to the HE500's in the first place). I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Focus pads, they're just different sounding. I'm keeping them on for a few more months until my brain associates this as the HE500 sound, then switch back to the pleather'is to see which I prefer.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tuneslover said:


> Yeah I'm still trying to get used to the change in sound and not sure if I prefer the original pleather pads (or that is the reference sound I'm accustomed to...which is what pulled me to the HE500's in the first place). I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Focus pads, they're just different sounding. I'm keeping them on for a few more months until my brain associates this as the HE500 sound, then switch back to the pleather'is to see which I prefer.




Are you referring to the Focus-A or the Focus pads? Just want to be clear.


----------



## Suopermanni

I noticed that Lake People now have an online store now. Does that mean the age of emailing the company and getting the slight discount is over? Not that I mind, the price of the G109P is reasonable. Also, thanks to the new website, I learnt that Lake People also make DESKTOP and not just rack mounted DACs.


----------



## hekeli

Since Australia has 230V you could simply use thomann.de for the cheaper price, three year warranty and all..


----------



## montanari

Hey guys!
Do someone use or had the chance to listen trough the g109 with the lcd 3(F) ?
Is it magic?


----------



## linglingjr

montanari said:


> Hey guys!
> Do someone use or had the chance to listen trough the g109 with the lcd 3(F) ?
> Is it magic?


 
 I run LCD-2 fazors through a G109s.  They sound great! Plenty full even at medium gain although I run them at the high setting.  They don't sound under powered at all.
  
 The price of this amp seems to have really fluctuated a lot the past year.  You might be able to do better. The violectric site lists the 109S at $615... I don't know what happened or why they're so much more expensive now.  I bought mine in the winter of 2013/2014 for $450 from thommann.
  
 EDIT: They still have it for $450.  Not sure what's up with the violectric listing.
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g109s_highend_phoneamp.htm


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Interesting. Do you live in the US or Europe?


----------



## linglingjr

liu junyuan said:


> Interesting. Do you live in the US or Europe?


 
 The US.  Shipping wasn't cheap from thomman.de but buying the 230v version from them and a step up transformer was much cheaper than what's listed for the region correct version on violectric.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

That is very useful information. Thanks.


----------



## Tuneslover

Sorry for the delay! I meant Focus pads (not Focus-A). I chose the Focus pads because apparently the F-A pads are a bit smaller and I have large-ish ears. The pads on my Shure 840's pads are a bit too snug and get uncomfortable for longer listening sessions so I tried to avoid that situation on my HE500's.


----------



## HiSenn5

Any good jumper/volume settings recommendations for the G109 in combination with the HD800?


----------



## TontonJoK

hisenn5 said:


> Any good jumper/volume settings recommendations for the G109 in combination with the HD800?




Try different settings and when the volume reach the max for your ears and is around the 12h00 o clock's position, then you're fine


----------



## Sam21

Should I mention that I want the 115 volts version when ordering ? do I have to worry about 115/240 ?


----------



## i019791

sam21 said:


> Should I mention that I want the 115 volts version when ordering ? do I have to worry about 115/240 ?


 
 You should mention it if you buy from Europe


----------



## linglingjr

sam21 said:


> Should I mention that I want the 115 volts version when ordering ? do I have to worry about 115/240 ?


 
 If you get the 240v European version and you live in the US (or a country with 115v outlets) you can either buy a step up transformer or there's a mod that you can do which was discussed here a few pages ago and involves soldering traces.  You can see the mod here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620082/lake-people-g109-g103-thread/195#post_10727895
  
 A 240v amp will work fine with US outlets, it just won't be sending as much power... Or something like that.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

What are people driving with this amp? I am just curious on which headphones it works well with.


----------



## Tuneslover

liu junyuan said:


> What are people driving with this amp? I am just curious on which headphones it works well with.




HiFiMan HE500, Senn HD650, Grado SR80, Beyer DT1350.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tuneslover said:


> HiFiMan HE500, Senn HD650, Grado SR80, Beyer DT1350.




I own the first two of your list. How is the pairing with those? I am pretty certain the HE-500 would work well but am less certain of how the HD-650 sounds with the G109.


----------



## Tuneslover

liu junyuan said:


> I own the first two of your list. How is the pairing with those? I am pretty certain the HE-500 would work well but am less certain of how the HD-650 sounds with the G109.




The G109 is an honest sounding amp that simply amplifies cleanly and effortlessly without "adding" anything to the sound. If anything it's a tad warm when compared to my Schiit Magni & Magni 2Û which sound good but a bit shrill by comparison.

I love how both the HE500 and HD650 sound on the G109. I find that the HD650 produces deeper (in a warm way) bass than the HE500 when I compare both head to head...and due to the 2 headphone inputs on the G109, I do a great deal of comparing...LOL! I love both cans but to be honest I generally grab the HD650's first and listen to them the longest.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tuneslover said:


> The G109 is an honest sounding amp that simply amplifies cleanly and effortlessly without "adding" anything to the sound. If anything it's a tad warm when compared to my Schiit Magni & Magni 2Û which sound good but a bit shrill by comparison.
> 
> I love how both the HE500 and HD650 sound on the G109. I find that the HD650 produces deeper (in a warm way) bass than the HE500 when I compare both head to head...and due to the 2 headphone inputs on the G109, I do a great deal of comparing...LOL! I love both cans but to be honest I generally grab the HD650's first and listen to them the longest.




Wonderful! I am looking for an honest SS amp. So it sounds like you prefer this to the MagniU?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I also am finding it slightly concerning that none of the people who started this thread with their enthusiastic impressions have posted in a long time. What happened to the G109?


----------



## Tuneslover

liu junyuan said:


> I also am finding it slightly concerning that none of the people who started this thread with their enthusiastic impressions have posted in a long time. What happened to the G109?




Hahaha I've noticed that as well, I guess they're all doing the same thing as I am and that is simply listening to and enjoying it. I believe there isn't that great of a following with the Violectric and especially the Lake People brand because they're less well known here in North America.

I certainly like my SCHIIT gear though. I started with the original Modi & Magni for my computer setup (and upgraded to the Magni2Ü). Liked them so much that I ended up buying a Bifrost Über DAC for my main 2 channel system. Thereafter tried my Magni with the Bifrost on my main system and really liked it so I toyed around with the idea of getting a Lyr2 but was a little unsure of the whole tube thing. A fellow headfier on the Lyr thread suggested the G109S as a solid SS amp if I wanted to stick with a SS amp. After some research and positive reviews I decided to go with it. This German guy (Reims) really knows his stuff and the quality is second to none so I figured that's the amp for me. It's an unassuming amp that isn't splashy, just does the job really well.


----------



## Tuneslover

liu junyuan said:


> I also am finding it slightly concerning that none of the people who started this thread with their enthusiastic impressions have posted in a long time. What happened to the G109?




Liu,

Check out Fried Reim's profile to see which headphones he uses as that will give you a really GOOD idea what sounds good with his amps. He welcomes emails and responds personally, terrific customer service! Ask him directly what is opinion is regarding the HD650 (he uses the HD600) or any other headphones in your arsenal.


----------



## headwhacker

I got one of this coming my way.


----------



## fengwei007

In the manual, the specs says this amp has the following max. output levels:
 
 > 18.8V in 600 ohms = 590 mW
 > 13.8V in 100 ohms = 1900 mW
 > 10.7V in 50 ohms = 2300 mW
 > 7.8V in 50 ohms = 1900 mW
 > 3.7V in 16 ohms = 410 mW

 
From the manual, these values are measured at 0dB pre-gain setting (overall gain is +8dB). If the pre-gain is set to +6dB, does this mean the output will be 4 times higher than the above measured values? If not 4 times higher, will I expect at least 2x higher output when the pre-gain is set to +6dB?


----------



## headwhacker

fengwei007 said:


> In the manual, the specs says this amp has the following max. output levels:
> 
> > 18.8V in 600 ohms = 590 mW
> > 13.8V in 100 ohms = 1900 mW
> ...


 
 No, it just tells you the max ouput power G109 has. Gain is fixed to 8dB overall but they change the voltage level from the input.
  
 The input voltage level combined with the gain (Input Voltage x gain) should not exceed the maximum power for each load as shown above. 
  
 e.g. for 100 Ohm load with 8dB gain overall, The source voltage should not exceed 5.52V. If you increase the gain to 14dB, the signal will simply clip.


----------



## fengwei007

headwhacker said:


> No, it just tells you the max ouput power G109 has. Gain is fixed to 8dB overall but they change the voltage level from the input.
> 
> The input voltage level combined with the gain (Input Voltage x gain) should not exceed the maximum power for each load as shown above.
> 
> e.g. for 100 Ohm load with 8dB gain overall, The source voltage should not exceed 5.52V. If you increase the gain to 14dB, the signal will simply clip.




Thanks for the reply.

So do you mean the max output remains the same regardless the pre-gain settings? From my experience the max output does change with different pre-gain settings.


----------



## headwhacker

fengwei007 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> So do you mean the max output remains the same regardless the pre-gain settings? From my experience the max output does change with different pre-gain settings.


 
  
 The output changes but do not exceed the rated maximum spec. If you set the overall gain too high relative to the input voltage, the sound become louder but the peaks of the output will be clipped. Depending how much of the signal is clipped it will be noticeable as noise and/or distortion.
  
 Where did you buy yours by the way? I ordered at thomann.de and the process appears to be very slow.


----------



## fengwei007

headwhacker said:


> The output changes but do not exceed the rated maximum spec. If you set the overall gain too high relative to the input voltage, the sound become louder but the peaks of the output will be clipped. Depending how much of the signal is clipped it will be noticeable as noise and/or distortion.
> 
> Where did you buy yours by the way? I ordered at thomann.de and the process appears to be very slow.


 
  
 Thanks again for your reply. I bought mine second hand a few months back from local. 
  
 Actually I also got a reply from Mr Fried Reim in email in regarding my questions about the pre-gain settings and capable of driving the HE6 headphones which will be here in a few days:
  


> Please note that the Pre Gain setting is something very individual.
> 
> It depends on your source, on the connected headphones and on your listening preferences.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now I understand how the pre-gain works    Will try the HE6 with a speaker amp and see how they sound. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## headwhacker

fengwei007 said:


> Thanks again for your reply. I bought mine second hand a few months back from local.
> 
> Actually I also got a reply from Mr Fried Reim in email in regarding my questions about the pre-gain settings and capable of driving the HE6 headphones which will be here in a few days:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I guess my G109 will take time to arrive. It appears Thomann used local post (DHL/Deutsche Post) which will involve Singpost (which I have a very unsatisfactory experience).
  
 I have the same plan for G109, will eventually try it with HE-6. My source is ODAC and if you do the math, G109 should drive HE-6 up to 116.5dB (2000mW) with the overall gain set to 14dB. 
  
 It's about the same level where my O2/HE-560 combo maxed out which for me is already very good (volume knob travels between 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock)
  
 If G109 does the same for HE-6 then I won't need to look for more powerful amp.


----------



## Advent75

liu junyuan said:


> What are people driving with this amp? I am just curious on which headphones it works well with.



Worked well for me with Audeze LCD-2.2, LCD-X and Hifiman HE-560 which I owned or auditioned. Still enjoying G109-P w/Audeze LCD-3. Hope this helps.


----------



## guy3134

i'm tempted to get hd600 to pair with this amp


----------



## Sam21

A quick Question:
  
 between V90 and G109S which one would you choose ? According to the Specs V90 has lower noise and lower THD+N than G109 ?


----------



## Benfica1

15% off Vioelectric/Lake people. Link: http://violectric-usa.com/.


----------



## headwhacker

Still cheaper getting one from lake-people.de or thomann


----------



## montanari

advent75 said:


> Worked well for me with Audeze LCD-2.2, LCD-X and Hifiman HE-560 which I owned or auditioned. Still enjoying G109-P w/Audeze LCD-3. Hope this helps.


 

 i have a pair of lcd3F ,before lcd2.2
 paired with Conductor, then i bought a hugo, I paired the 3 fo a while with a soloist
 now i m looking for a g109, i dont know if it s supeior to the solosit
 i would like something with more power and less warm than the Burson


----------



## headwhacker

My G109-S just arrived today. The volume control is outstanding. Effortless control and very accurate


----------



## Tuneslover

headwhacker said:


> My G109-S just arrived today. The volume control is outstanding. Effortless control and very accurate


 
 Congrats...enjoy!!


----------



## irishsammy

liu junyuan said:


> What are people driving with this amp? I am just curious on which headphones it works well with.


 

 I'm driving my Alpha Dogs with my G-103.  OUTSTANDING combo.


----------



## Guerny

Alpha Dogs + G103 here as well... makes an amazing work rig.
  
 Cheers,
 G


----------



## headwhacker

G109 does not attract attention but gets the job done very well. No frills, no bells and whistle. Transparent and has no problems driving low impedance (HE-560) up to high impedance (Beyer T1) cans. Detail retrieval is very clear both at low and high volume level. I will try soon how it can handle a beast like the HE-6.
  
 Overall, an excellent amp. The pricetag is well worth the performance. Amazing value for money.


----------



## HiSenn5

Thinking of upgrading my G109 to the V200. Is it really worth it?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

hisenn5 said:


> Thinking of upgrading my G109 to the V200. Is it really worth it?




Why do you want to upgrade?


----------



## 0rangutan

headwhacker said:


> I will try soon how it can handle a beast like the HE-6.


 
 The G-109 sounds stunning with the HE-4's which don't get as much discussion as the HE-6's but are also a very difficult load.


----------



## 0rangutan

hisenn5 said:


> Thinking of upgrading my G109 to the V200. Is it really worth it?


 

 Only if you want a blue LED rather than green and less money in your bank account


----------



## HiSenn5

0rangutan said:


> Only if you want a blue LED rather than green and less money in your bank account


 
 Ha ;D Heard the V200 has more depth and definition. There are certain things that bother me with the G109s, like the warmth, the soundstage and the fact that I have to plug and unplug my headphones all the time... I didn't do this with my K701s and one day when I turned it off, my right driver died.


----------



## 0rangutan

The warmth and soundstage will be near identical given the similarities in circuit and components.  If these are an issue then you need to look for an alternative to the Violectric/Lake People house sound.
 An alternative you could consider is the G109-P rather than S.  I believe that this has a "soft start" delay which the S model doesn't.


----------



## HiSenn5

0rangutan said:


> The warmth and soundstage will be near identical given the similarities in circuit and components.  If these are an issue then you need to look for an alternative to the Violectric/Lake People house sound.
> An alternative you could consider is the G109-P rather than S.  I believe that this has a "soft start" delay which the S model doesn't.


 
 Yep, the P version has relays built in. I'm not sure if you're right about the sound, heard different experiences. Mybe someone from Violectric/LakePeople can chime in to clear up the sonic differences between the G and V series.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I lack experience, but from my modest research the V200 is warmer and smoother at the top than the more neutral G109. Apparently the V200's more robust components make it more detailed and resolved, but almost unanimous impressions state that its soundstage is intimate though well defined. I would not know how this latter impression compares to the G109. How is the soundstage on it?


----------



## headwhacker

hisenn5 said:


> Yep, the P version has relays built in. I'm not sure if you're right about the sound, heard different experiences. Mybe someone from Violectric/LakePeople can chime in to clear up the sonic differences between the G and V series.


 
  
 You can ask different people and you will get different answers. I doubt Lake-People/Violectric designs V series to sound differently than the G. The most obvious differences are G is designed for professional use and V for audiophile/home use. Technically the differences are power output and other non SQ-related features/convenience.
  
 If those differences are worth the extra cost is up to you. If you worry about G109-S damaging your headphone if you accidentally turn on/off the power while plugged in, then G109-P is worth the upgrade. For me the only reason I would want to upgrade from G109-S is if I need more power.
  
 I wish the G series has a counterpart for V281 in terms of power output.


----------



## headwhacker

0rangutan said:


> The G-109 sounds stunning with the HE-4's which don't get as much discussion as the HE-6's but are also a very difficult load.


 
  
 Thanks but HE-6 is a much more difficult load. It approximately need twice the power HE-4 needs for a given SPL


----------



## linglingjr

headwhacker said:


> If you worry about G109-S damaging your headphone if you accidentally turn on/off the power while plugged in, then G109-P is worth the upgrade. For me the only reason I would want to upgrade from G109-S is if I need more power.


 
 This is the first I've heard about powering on/off with the 109s damaging headphones.  Is it the whole driver flex thing that old schiit amps used to destroy cans with?  I've owned my amp for several years and haven't had any damage leaving them plugged in, turning the volume all the way down and turning on/off.
  
 I couldn't see any driver flex either.  Here's what I'm talking about, some one did this with their schiit amp:


----------



## headwhacker

linglingjr said:


> This is the first I've heard about powering on/off with the 109s damaging headphones.  Is it the whole driver flex thing that old schiit amps used to destroy cans with?  I've owned my amp for several years and haven't had any damage leaving them plugged in, turning the volume all the way down and turning on/off.
> 
> I couldn't see any driver flex either.  Here's what I'm talking about, some one did this with their schiit amp:




It's similar but I think the DC offset in G109-S is very low (I don'tt know the exact value) possibility of damage is low. But the relay add a layer of protection. I believe someone already reported this happened to his phone several posts ago.

Anyway, I already have the habit of pulling headphone plug out before turning of the power and my G109-S is connect to a UPS.


----------



## 0rangutan

A Schiit Lyr destroyed a driver in my Beyer T50's - I will never use their products again.
 My G109S however has been a joy to use and I don't experience any loud switch-on/off noise when used with my HE-4's.


----------



## Roy Munson

I pulled the trigger on a new G109S. It'll be arriving tomorrow. After some time with it I'll post some impressions.


----------



## Roy Munson

I've been listening to this amp for no more than 20 minutes and can already tell it was a great choice.


----------



## DrMickey

roy munson said:


> I pulled the trigger on a new G109S. It'll be arriving tomorrow. After some time with it I'll post some impressions.


 

 Roy,
  
 You must be the person who bought the last in-stock G109s (if you bought it online from Violectric US). And I bought the G109p, also the last in stock.


----------



## Roy Munson

drmickey said:


> Roy,
> 
> You must be the person who bought the last in-stock G109s (if you bought it online from Violectric US). And I bought the G109p, also the last in stock.


 
 That's funny. I did purchase from Violetric USA. Arthur was a great guy to deal with. How are you liking the amp?


----------



## DrMickey

Roy,
 I don't have it yet; it's scheduled for delivery Monday. So I'm rearranging things in my home office to make room for it and doing a general late-spring cleaning.
 Associated equipment is an NAD 356 BEE integrated amp, Schiit Bifrost with Uber option for USB and I run JRiver 20 on a Win 8.1 computer.
 Cans are my new favorite Sennheiser HD650, Audio Technica ATH M50, and AKG Q701 (my least favorite).


----------



## Roy Munson

drmickey said:


> Roy,
> I don't have it yet; it's scheduled for delivery Monday. So I'm rearranging things in my home office to make room for it and doing a general late-spring cleaning.
> Associated equipment is an NAD 356 BEE integrated amp, Schiit Bifrost with Uber option for USB and I run JRiver 20 on a Win 8.1 computer.
> Cans are my new favorite Sennheiser HD650, Audio Technica ATH M50, and AKG Q701 (my least favorite).


 

 Very cool. I'm also using a bifrost uber for my dac. I'm not familiar with your amp but the lake people amp is a clear upgrade compared to my lyr. I'm really enjoying this amp. I just sold off some headphones. I'm currently using a fostex th600 and have an hd600 coming in on Monday.


----------



## Sam21

the noise floor in this amp is simply amazing. even at high gain and the volume knob all the way up it is dead silent. I also have a Bifrost Uber, Killer combo and definitely better than fiio/audiogd .


----------



## Roy Munson

sam21 said:


> the noise floor in this amp is simply amazing. even at high gain and the volume knob all the way up it is dead silent. I also have a Bifrost Uber, Killer combo and definitely better than fiio/audiogd .


 

 Agreed on all accounts. I'm curious - how does the g109s compare to your o2?


----------



## Benfica1

Great amp that's let all my headphones shine on it. I've listened to a HD650, LCD 2f, HE400i and a Beyerdynamic T1 on it and they all sound great. Not an easy thing to do considering how different these all are and with different power needs.


----------



## Sam21

roy munson said:


> Agreed on all accounts. I'm curious - how does the g109s compare to your o2?


 
  
 I think the most important difference is the power output:
  
  
  
 O2:
  
  33  ohms  -------------------        613 mW
 150 ohms  -------------------        355 mW
 600 ohms --------------------         88 mW
  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 G109:
  
  33  ohms  -------------------        1402 mW
 240 ohms  -------------------        1207 mW
 600 ohms --------------------         595 mW
  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
  
 this amp is quite a beast, can drive anything you throw at it and the noise floor is amazing too.


----------



## headwhacker

G109 doesn't break a sweat driving 99% of headphones. I think the only challenge is an HE-6.


----------



## mochi01

Has anyone had the opportunity to use one of these amps (G103S / G109S) with Philips Fidelio X1 / X2?. I also have a HD600, and while the HD600 may benefit from the high output power, I fear that it may be overkill for the Philips ones, these amps are even able to kill them at half power levels.
  
 The main goal is to get the maximum sound quality with the Philips (I have the H600 covered with a tube amp), I've considered the O2 but I would prefer a more solidly built desktop amp that will last for years. The source will be a Cambridge Dacmagic Plus.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DrMickey

roy munson said:


> Very cool. I'm also using a bifrost uber for my dac. I'm not familiar with your amp but the lake people amp is a clear upgrade compared to my lyr. I'm really enjoying this amp. I just sold off some headphones. I'm currently using a fostex th600 and have an hd600 coming in on Monday.


 

 Roy,
 I think you made a great choice on the headphone amp (and so did I). My Lake People G109p is scheduled for delivery tomorrow, and I'll use KimberKable Hero interconnect cables to connect it to the pre-out of the NAD integrated amp and I will burn it in for a week or so.
 I have to say that I am amazed by the sound of the Senn HD650 cans driven by the NAD integrated amp headphone jack, so I hope for even greater resolution, detail and clarity from the G109p.
 The NAD drives a pair of PSB Alpha B1 speakers using Tara Time and Space with Return speaker cables for desktop nearfield listening, and I also have an NAD C545 BEE CD player that feeds the Schiit Bifrost via coax, but honestly I never use the CD player.


----------



## DrMickey

drmickey said:


> Roy,
> I think you made a great choice on the headphone amp (and so did I). My Lake People G109p is scheduled for delivery tomorrow, and I'll use KimberKable Hero interconnect cables to connect it to the pre-out of the NAD integrated amp and I will burn it in for a week or so.
> I have to say that I am amazed by the sound of the Senn HD650 cans driven by the NAD integrated amp headphone jack, so I hope for even greater resolution, detail and clarity from the G109p.
> The NAD drives a pair of PSB Alpha B1 speakers using Tara Time and Space with Return speaker cables for desktop nearfield listening, and I also have an NAD C545 BEE CD player that feeds the Schiit Bifrost via coax, but honestly I never use the CD player.


 

 Well sadly, my G109p was dead on arrival yesterday; no audio from either jack. So back it goes and I will have to rethink this whole headphone amp quest...


----------



## Tuneslover

drmickey said:


> Well sadly, my G109p was dead on arrival yesterday; no audio from either jack. So back it goes and I will have to rethink this whole headphone amp quest...


 
 Wow that truly sucks!  Certainly whoever you bought it from will make it right.  Don't give up on the G109, it's a great amp.


----------



## DrMickey

tuneslover said:


> Wow that truly sucks!  Certainly whoever you bought it from will make it right.  Don't give up on the G109, it's a great amp.


 

 So I took your advice and didn't give up. I disconnected then reconnected everything, and voila. It's working fine.
 I need to mention that Arthur has been extremely helpful in resolving this, at a time when he was dealing with some issues of his own. Thank you, Arthur!


----------



## Tuneslover

drmickey said:


> So I took your advice and didn't give up. I disconnected then reconnected everything, and voila. It's working fine.
> I need to mention that Arthur has been extremely helpful in resolving this, at a time when he was dealing with some issues of his own. Thank you, Arthur!




Awesome! Enjoy!


----------



## Roy Munson

drmickey said:


> So I took your advice and didn't give up. I disconnected then reconnected everything, and voila. It's working fine.
> I need to mention that Arthur has been extremely helpful in resolving this, at a time when he was dealing with some issues of his own. Thank you, Arthur!


 

 Glad you were able to get that resolved. How are you liking the amp?


----------



## DrMickey

roy munson said:


> Glad you were able to get that resolved. How are you liking the amp?


 

 Roy, The G-109P is burning in and opening up nicely. I am using it with KimberKable Hero interconnects which are burning in along with the amp, but I know the sound signature of these cables (there isn't much of one) and I am very happy with the music I am hearing.
  
 With the HD650s I am hearing deeper, more prominent bass--but not overpowering. Just never heard the extent and depth of the bass in some of my favorite headphone go-to songs. I will go inside and bump the jumper to +12 dB; as it is, the G-109P's volume control is up all the way and I could use just a bit more output, running my JRiver Media Center at 75% volume (-12.5 dB though the Schiit Bifrost Uber as default output device).
  
 The midrange is smooth and rich without seeming colored or too forward; a nice step up from the NAD integrated amp headphone output. Very good spatial cues and soundstage (not much change from without the amp). Vocals and massed strings are just amazing, though; solo guitar sounds holographic!
  
 Highs are crisp and detailed without any hint of splash. Triangles and timbales and wind chimes (yes, I am a geek) sound delicate but detailed without a "tinkly" lightness.
  
 I also listened to a couple of CD's (it was TBT yesterday, after all) and wow! I haven't played a CD in a couple of years other than to rip, and this combo makes an enormous image and soundstage. I may be re-evaluating some of my CDs are a listening source...
  
 So I love it so far. It's an excellent upgrade, built solidly and good-looking. It's a keeper.


----------



## montanari

did someone get the chance to compare the g109 with the soloist ?
 i would like to feed my lcd3F with a less warm amp than the soloist
 the source: chord hugo


----------



## DrMickey

Just received from AudioAdvisor my 2 meter Cardas Cross Cable for Sennheiser HD Series Headphones and the cable is burning in as well.
  
 A number of folks on these fora have said don't bother; the Cardas doesn't sound any different from the stock HD650 cable. But out of the box (or actually, out of the Ziploc bag) I hear a couple of differences: a wider soundstage and more spatially-defined instruments. The other thing I am sure about is that the bass is tighter. I don't want to use the word "faster" because I have no idea what that means.
  
 I have, in the past week, added a headphone amp, a pair of interconnects and a new headphone cable (total cost just over $1000.00) to my system. Should there be improvements? Hell, yeah!
  
 Are there improvements? Absolutely! And at the end of all of this, the music I listen to sounds so much better. I hear things I have never heard before in songs I have played dozens--hundreds--of times. Definition, detail and voicing is far beyond what I have previously heard.
  
 I highly recommend the Lake People G109P headphone amp and the Cardas Cross Cable, YMMV.


----------



## DrMickey

drmickey said:


> Just received from AudioAdvisor my 2 meter Cardas Cross Cable for Sennheiser HD Series Headphones and the cable is burning in as well.
> 
> A number of folks on these fora have said don't bother; the Cardas doesn't sound any different from the stock HD650 cable. But out of the box (or actually, out of the Ziploc bag) I hear a couple of differences: a wider soundstage and more spatially-defined instruments. The other thing I am sure about is that the bass is tighter. I don't want to use the word "faster" because I have no idea what that means.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, the Cardas Cable went back due to an intermittent in the right channel.
 I replaced it with the wonderful Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 with Furutech phone plug. Shorter break-in time which was surprising, and a deeper bass with more power than the Cardas. The Moon brings out the midrange in a way that makes you think you moved from the back of the hall to 12 rows from the stage. The darkness of the HD650 has been replaced by a very welcome, smooth midrange that images well. As much or more detail as the Cardas. And built like a tank.


----------



## ginetto61

Hi when i see the connectors of the HD series i wonder what they were thinking when they designed them ... to a teaser maybe ?
  

 ridiculous ... even plastic ones on the hd600 ??? 
 Come on Senneheiser ...
 I have an old Ovation and they slip out very easily and i do not know if i reverse the polarity or not
 Maybe even a humble miniplug provides a better contact
 Regards, gino


----------



## Tuneslover

So people have been raving about the Gustard H10 on various threads so I decided to check out this amp. Looks like a Violectric or Lake People product. I understand it's a Chinese clone of the V200. Has anyone compared them? If so what are your thoughts?


----------



## Shaffer

tuneslover said:


> So people have been raving about the Gustard H10 on various threads so I decided to check out this amp. Looks like a Violectric or Lake People product. I understand it's a Chinese clone of the V200. Has anyone compared them? If so what are your thoughts?




Last I saw, folks were discussing the Gustard's lack of bass extension. That, alone, hardly puts it on a similar plateau as a V200.


----------



## headwhacker

shaffer said:


> Last I saw, folks were discussing the Gustard's lack of bass extension. That, alone, hardly puts it on a similar plateau as a V200.




Looks similar to Violectric amps but I wouldn't assume they perform the same. Is there a published measurements for their amps comparing them to Violectric's?


----------



## mrip541

Has anyone compared the G109 to any of the RSA desktop amps like the HR-2? In the only direct comparison I could find, the reviewer seemed to prefer the HR-2.


----------



## Sam21

I am not quite sure, But the G109 seems to be the more powerful and the better designed amp. You could ask RSA for power ratings at different impedances, The G109's power ratings are in the manual on their website.
  
  
 Sonically, I don't know which one is better.


----------



## mkrzych

Anyone using G103 with Beyers T90? Is it good matching or not? Thanks in advance.


----------



## plakat

While I don't know the G103 from my own experience the other Lake People / Violectric amps I have (or had), i.e. the V281 and the G109 sound just a tad warm, so they are a good match to the T90 for me.
 You can find a nice review of the G103 and its bigger brother G109 at inenrfidelity.com:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers


----------



## mkrzych

plakat said:


> While I don't know the G103 from my own experience the other Lake People / Violectric amps I have (or had), i.e. the V281 and the G109 sound just a tad warm, so they are a good match to the T90 for me.
> You can find a nice review of the G103 and its bigger brother G109 at inenrfidelity.com:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers


 
 Thank you. I'm pretty aware about above review, but just wanted to hear some opinion from regular people who using this combo at home. Just wondering if I could hear using T90 the difference between G103 and G109 or Beyer A20, which is the most expensive from the three.


----------



## Shaffer

You have to listen for yourself. Good luck.

Edit: As you're in Poland, have you considered Feliks Audio amps? They're quite good.


----------



## mkrzych

shaffer said:


> You have to listen for yourself. Good luck.


 
 I know, but rather hard to get those amps here around my area to audition, that's why first I would appreciate your opinions.


----------



## Shaffer

mkrzych said:


> I know, but rather hard to get those amps here around my area to audition, that's why first I would appreciate your opinions.




I recommended auditioning for yourself, because I've been here for two years - 20 years on real audio forums, 40 years at it myself - and only trust small number of individuals. On the recommendations board, almost none. Stick around and you will understand. The best you can hope for is a bunch of meaningless text. It's the truth of it.


----------



## mkrzych

shaffer said:


> I recommended auditioning for yourself, because I've been here for two years - 20 years on real audio forums, 40 years at it myself - and only trust small number of individuals. On the recommendations board, almost none. Stick around and you will understand. The best you can hope for is a bunch of meaningless text. It's the truth of it.


 
 It could be, but at least if some folks say that's totally non acceptable pairing I will know something is wrong - potentially. Sometimes it's not possible to hear everything on your own and at some point you'll need to rely on someones opinion.


----------



## Shaffer

mkrzych said:


> It could be, but at least if some folks say that's totally non acceptable pairing I will know something is wrong - potentially. Sometimes it's not possible to hear everything on your own and at some point you'll need to rely on someones opinion.




Most folks here are kids with little experience with audio. Many hardly listen to music. Sure, their first cheeseburger tastes great, but is it really a good cheeseburger or the only one they ever had outside of a school cafeteria? Think about this.

I'm out.


----------



## headwhacker

mkrzych said:


> It could be, but at least if some folks say that's totally non acceptable pairing I will know something is wrong - potentially. Sometimes it's not possible to hear everything on your own and at some point you'll need to rely on someones opinion.


 
  
 No, it only means you need to get out more and try things for yourself. How do you think the first audiophile has gotten his opinions over time? This is a hobby that is highly subjective and prone to personal/suggestion biased. If you let yourself swayed by what other people say you should like or listen too then you will end up burning a big hole in your pocket or worst.


----------



## mkrzych

headwhacker said:


> No, it only means you need to get out more and try things for yourself. How do you think the first audiophile has gotten his opinions over time? This is a hobby that is highly subjective and prone to personal/suggestion biased. If you let yourself swayed by what other people say you should like or listen too then you will end up burning a big hole in your pocket or worst.


 
 OK, now we are starting talking about egg and chicken dilemma. Fine, but I understand you. So lets quit this forum and let everybody to went to the stores and listen for yourselves  I am out as well.


----------



## Tuneslover

mkrzych said:


> OK, now we are starting talking about egg and chicken dilemma. Fine, but I understand you. So lets quit this forum and let everybody to went to the stores and listen for yourselves  I am out as well.




This is a fun and interesting hobby but one that does involve the advise of others because it's not that easy to hop in your car and drive down to your local headphone audio retailer that carries a terrific line of headphones, amplifiers and DAP's for you to audition. Case in point, I never heard any Schiit gear or Lake People gear but I ended purchasing both entirely based on product reviews, manufacturer's web pages, product specifications and fellow enthusiasts comments on forums such as this. By the way, I am very happy with my purchases and have no intention of parting with them too soon.


----------



## henkie196

I agree that it's difficult to find hardware to audition, and that as such reviews on the internet can be a good starting point. But the personal nature of audio may make it hard to find that one sound signature that you like in the sea of opinions.
  
 Sometimes it may work out, sometimes it will not. I got a set of VSonic GR07s based on the info in joker's IEM review thread, and they were precisely what I was looking for. But I also got a FiiO X3 based on the opinions here, and found it a bit disappointing (too dark sound signature for me). Then I got a Vorzuge portable amp, which was a massive let-down, which I definitely wouldn't have expected based on the general opinions.
  
 It's a bit hit and miss (for me, at least), so I agree that you definitely need to audition (or have a good return policy from the store).


----------



## 0rangutan

I used a T90 with a G109 briefly and thought the combination worked fairly well. That said, even as a fan of bright headphones I found the T90 to be a bit too much. While the warmer LP/Violectric sound helped, it won't reduce the T90 to the point of being anywhere near neutral.


----------



## mkrzych

FYI, I've just posted my initial impressions on T90/G103 combo here: post #3319


----------



## montanari

I put my new g109 in the classified
I like the size very much, it's perfect for my needs, but I really don't like how it make sounds my lcd3


----------



## Guerny

Does anyone know (have heard) the new anniversary edition G109-A?
  
 I ask because i am considering an upgrade...
 I got to compare my G103 to a V200 last week and was amazed at the difference it made to the sound of my Alpha Dogs (much improved).
  
 Would a G103 -> G109 upgrade be a significant improvement?
  
 (I cant really afford a G103 -> V200 upgrade...)
  
 Cheers,
 G


----------



## mkrzych

guerny said:


> Does anyone know (have heard) the new anniversary edition G109-A?
> 
> I ask because i am considering an upgrade...
> I got to compare my G103 to a V200 last week and was amazed at the difference it made to the sound of my Alpha Dogs (much improved).
> ...


 
 Difference between G103 and G109 may depend on headphones are you gonna use IMHO, so without trying both I think it may be not adequate to judge. For sure G109 has better pot, it's discrete design and have more power, but electrically it's similar. On some forum one guy claim that cannot hear the significant difference to justify the spending, but again it may vary. I've tried Beyers A20 in the store and than G103 in my house. Difference is subtle sonically, so I've bought G103 as it's cheaper.


----------



## blacknile

Hi, can you expand? How does the G109 make your LCD3 sound?
  
 Quote:


montanari said:


> I put my new g109 in the classified
> I like the size very much, it's perfect for my needs, but I really don't like how it make sounds my lcd3


----------



## montanari

a bit dull and flat


----------



## montanari

the amp does a good job and it could be fine if you didn t hear something better (for better i mean more detail and with more prat)
 my humble point of view


----------



## blacknile

montanari said:


> the amp does a good job and it could be fine if you didn t hear something better (for better i mean more detail and with more prat)
> my humble point of view


 
  
 I see thanks. What, in your experience, was better?


----------



## montanari

burson soloist, conductor , some class A artisan amp, meier, (i didn t like the mjor, the lyr and the oppo ha1 ) but straight from my speaker amp post overall
 (better from the cavallia udio liquid glass but too expansive for my wallet)
 but i  still need a small transistor amp (like the lake people) for my working trips


----------



## Tuneslover

mkrzych said:


> Difference between G103 and G109 may depend on headphones are you gonna use IMHO, so without trying both I think it may be not adequate to judge. For sure G109 has better pot, it's discrete design and have more power, but electrically it's similar. On some forum one guy claim that cannot hear the significant difference to justify the spending, but again it may vary. I've tried Beyers A20 in the store and than G103 in my house. Difference is subtle sonically, so I've bought G103 as it's cheaper.



Check out Headfonia.com and InnerFidelity.com, both did G109 & G103 comparisons a while back. Also lots of chatter about both of these amps near the beginning of this thread.


----------



## mkrzych

tuneslover said:


> Check out Headfonia.com and InnerFidelity.com, both did G109 & G103 comparisons a while back. Also lots of chatter about both of these amps near the beginning of this thread.


 
 Yeah, I am pretty aware of those reviews. For me G103 is neutral enough to almost hear every flow in the modest recordings unfortunately


----------



## Bonobo

Maybe a newbie question, but are there any RCA/cinch cables included when you order the Lake People G109P? Or should you buy these separate? Any good suggestions (not too expensive )
  
 PS: I'm going to use the Concero HD dac.


----------



## plakat

bonobo said:


> Maybe a newbie question, but are there any RCA/cinch cables included when you order the Lake People G109P? Or should you buy these separate? Any good suggestions (not too expensive )
> 
> PS: I'm going to use the Concero HD dac.


 

 No, there are no RCA cables included. You can get nice looking cables at reasonable prices e.g. from Amazon. I'd not spend more than 30,-


----------



## natemact

bonobo said:


> Maybe a newbie question, but are there any RCA/cinch cables included when you order the Lake People G109P? Or should you buy these separate? Any good suggestions (not too expensive )
> 
> PS: I'm going to use the Concero HD dac.


 

 If you're going single ended rca then look at the G109-S as the "P" adds xlr input.
  
 I gotta say, having previously owned a G109P, I think that in today's market Lake People may be asking a little too much for their 109s/p. Five years ago? Sure...but it just seems to me that today, >$600 is a lot to ask for the SQ the 109 provides. Doesn't help keep costs down when it's made in Germany either  Class leading quality, just not class leading SQ with the 109 in my opinion.
  
 Options would be the Liquid Carbon (wouldn't get it until 2016 though) or, on the cheap, the Gustard H10 with upgraded opamps may just be the best value out there in <$500 amps. Both can do sensitive iem's, right up to TOTL cans.
  
 My H10 ended up replacing my G109P altogether, at half the cost too.


----------



## Tuneslover

natemact said:


> If you're going single ended rca then look at the G109-S as the "P" adds xlr input.
> 
> I gotta say, having previously owned a G109P, I think that in today's market Lake People may be asking a little too much for their 109s/p. Five years ago? Sure...but it just seems to me that today, >$600 is a lot to ask for the SQ the 109 provides. Doesn't help keep costs down when it's made in Germany either  Class leading quality, just not class leading SQ with the 109 in my opinion.
> 
> ...



Agreed that the LP G109S is a bit pricey however I was looking for an amp that is brutally transparent (and fairly neutral) because I'm interested in hearing as much of the source as possible. It's an amp that has plenty of power to drive my HD650's and HE500's to their fullest potential with ease. It's constructed with top notch materials and it's built like a tank. So yes I fully agree that it's expensive but it's a seriously good performer that will remain as my premier solid state amp.

Next amp on my list is one that will introduce some characteristics to the sound chain, yup a tube amp. Thinking a Project Ember perhaps. I think it will nicely compliment the G109S.


----------



## Zeroblade

guerny said:


> Does anyone know (have heard) the new anniversary edition G109-A?
> 
> I ask because i am considering an upgrade...
> I got to compare my G103 to a V200 last week and was amazed at the difference it made to the sound of my Alpha Dogs (much improved).
> ...


 
  

  
 I just purchased a G109-A earlier today. Serial number 012/300. I couldn't resist the draw of a limited edition...
 But even though I was initially curious because of the limited edition factor, it was really the sound that had me going for it.
  
 The G109-A is fantastic, and has powered all that I've thrown at it so far (multiple IEMs, HD650s, HD800s, HE-560s, etc.) to reasonable listening volumes with room to spare.
 While I normally listen to music at lower levels (around ~75dB), it should have no problem going much louder, as it's driving my HD800s very competently right now at only around the 9~10 o'clock position with stock (medium) gain.
  
 I was with a few friends trying it out at the local headphone shop as they'd brought in 10 of the 300 units made.
 Overall it's a very clean, neutral amp with a wonderful, extended treble response, and just enough bass punch/meatiness.
  
 The store didn't have the G103 so I can't compare, but they did have other standard Violectric units.
  
 I've found it has a cleaner, more extended treble response than even the V90, V181, and V281, which are great in their own right, but the treble on this G109-A is slightly better.
 I thought I was just imagining things, but all of us trying it out felt the same way -- we made sure to compare with the above-mentioned three units.
  

  
  
 There is a very, very slight bump in the sub/mid-bass, which gives the HD800s just enough 'oomph' for me.
 Combined with the Anaxilus mod, they sound very tonally balanced (though it still sheds a very harsh spotlight on even the slightest hint of sibilance in recordings).
  
 Although I'm not a big fan of stepped attenuators, the Alps RK27 has me spoiled because there are zero channel imbalance issues, even at the 7:30 position (just 2 clicks out of 40), and I'm very glad LP have decided to use it here as well.
 There is also no issue of having most of the gain on the first half or so of the amp, with the rest of the volume knob being just there for show.
  
 On a side note, having two headphone outputs is incredibly useful not for just sharing the music, but also for comparing different headphones.
 Both outputs sound exactly the same, regardless of whether you're using the left, right, or both at once.
  
 As everyone says, build quality is excellent as well, though it would have been nice if they'd bump the cost up a little more so we get a fancier beveled faceplate and a powdercoated casing.
 But that's all right.
  
 For those curious about the differences between the G109-A and the G109-S/P, I emailed Fried about it to learn more, and this is what he replied with:
  


> The internal differences:
> Although G109-A is basically a G109-S with only unbalanced inputs, it has the protective relay from the G109-P series. Second, we are using special "audio-grade" smoothing capacitors from Nichicon inside G109-A.
> By doing so, the sound from G109-A has become a bit more powerful on one hand but also softer, richer with a wider soundstage compared to the "standard" capacitors we are using.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For amps within <$500, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find better value and performance for your money.
 For amps within <$1000, it still remains a strong contender compared to other amps twice its price.
 I suppose you'll just want to avoid it if you need balanced inputs, pre-out, or any other functionality apart from amplifying a single-ended signal for headphone output.


----------



## natemact

> For amps within <$500, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find better value and performance for your money.


 
  The G109 series amps, either the S,P or 30th version are all >$600...so I'd hope many amps <$500 don't offer better performance
  
 There's a couple that do though! At half the price of a G109P there's the Gustard H10. If you want to go fully balanced there's also the $420 Matrix HPA-3B. Closer to the G109's price but still cheaper, the Liquid Carbon.
  
 There's a quote here from Fried stating that the G109P is basically a V100 with slight changes.


> @The Fed:
> 
> Fried (Lake People CEO) told me the G109 is very similar to the Violectric V100. Its probably fairly similar to the V90 as well but I think its more on par with the more expensive V100, albeit with a couple minor differences to bring the cost down.
> 
> ...


 
 And with the V181 just being a V100 with balanced output I'm not surprised the G109 sounded similar except for a cleaner and more extended treble. I think what hurts the G103/109's performance is their reluctance to use DIP-8 sockets. Without having the abillty to swap out it's NE5532's (unless you solder), severally bottlenecks it's performance in my opinion.
  
 To compare it only against other overpriced amps in it's own product line (that are basically the same amp), and then say it's a contender in the <$1K market is a little shortsighted don't you think? I'm thinking if you liked the G109 over a V281 then there was surely something (or a combination of things) holding the testing back. It seems like the amps weren't being heard to anywhere near their full potential.


----------



## fdg

About our amps.
  
 It seems to me that it is again time to talk a bit about our "philosophy" and the different topologies inside our headphone amps.
 Also to make clear that V181 is not a double V100 !!
  
All our amps offer 4 basic features which - in combination - can only be found here:
  
*LOW-NOISE** *
 because of low internal gain.
 Therefore the self generated noise from the amplifer is not audible.

*HIGH OUTPUT VOLTAGE *
 through 60 Volt internal operating voltage.
 Therefore best suited for high impedance headphones.
 Over 90 % of all headphone amplifiers in the market offer not half that voltage !! 

*HIGH OUTPUT POWER *
 because of powerful amplifiers able to deliver much more current a headphone needs.
 Therefore best suited for low impedance headphones and even magnetostatic cans !!

*HIGH DAMPING FACTOR* 
 through lowest output impedance.
 Therefore best suited for full control even over critical headphones with the garantee to have flatest possible response.
  
 The easiest amp-approach is the one from G103.
 Here the amp is made with a small power amp from National.
 Next are 4-transistor amps per channel which can be found inside G105, G107, G109 and V100.
 F388, F399, V90 and V181 are made with power op-amps like OPA551 or similar.
 Finally, there is the 8-transistor amp (per channel) which can be found inside V200, V220 and V281.
  
 ... and, yes, also inside the Gustard and the Accurate and maybe some more ...
  
 All those amps do have their reason because they offer specific features and meet a specific price point.
 Unfortunately the more expensive designs sound better )
  
 All our amp designs where developed and optimised over the past 30 years.
  
 It may seem to some people that we are dealing with overpriced amps ... maybe ... but we made all our developements on our own - and on our own costs.
 And we are manufacturing all our gear in Germany and we pay very very resonable wages so non of our employees is forced to look for a second or third job.
 We have never looked at the market to see what design is worth to be cloned and then cheaply to be manufactured in some remote asian places.
 And I hope that those who are always hunting for a bargain are not in a business which may be affected by some cheap clones some day.
 Running a business in North America or Western Europe means that you are always forced to be on top and faster than others.
 That is costly and fortunately the majority of our customers reward our efforts and purchase our overpriced amps and not the clones.
 I am not living bad as the CEO of Lake People / Violectric, but the counter of my Porsche collection still shows zero.
  
 Thank you for your time,
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## plakat

@fdg Fried, thanks for taking the time to outline the differences between those amps -- I for one did not know how they were to categorize with respect to topologies (i.e. which amps share a broader design).
  
 I do get some kind of weird enjoyment out of the fact of owning one of the most powerful headphone amps, knowing that it'll never clip and that I'll never buy a headphone I don't have an amp for (I'm not interested in electrostatic headphones, so I can rule this case out as well 
  
 And yes, I appreciate the fact that its not a cloned design out of a sweat shop.


----------



## 0rangutan

Thanks Fried - a great explanation.
 Another happy owner here, having moved up through the G103 and G109 to rest on the V200 (+V800).
 FWIW, my enjoyment of ownership is all the higher for the authenticity of both the design and manufacture.  I am sure the Gustard sounds great, but I wouldn't enjoy owning one.


----------



## natemact

Hey, at least one things for sure....great customer service! When the CEO chimes in to clear the smoke I just stunk the joint up with, you know you're in good hands.
  
 While it may not be that Lake People & Violectric products are overpriced, so much as it's most of their competition are greatly under-priced...saving on labor, materials, R&D, etc..we all already know this.
  
 Having owned a G109P I can say if you value absolute neutrality and build quality above all else the G109 is a terrific pick. I found that what the 109 lacked in soundstage width and depth and imaging it made up for it in detail, timbre accuracy, transparency and sheer neutrality.
  
 However if an amazing 2.7W @ 600 Ohms is more your style the V281 will fit your needs nicely! Sensitive iem's too!! Outstanding versatility!!!


----------



## Sam21

the G109S is reasonably priced when you look at the power ratings of the amp. every amp that I have tried so far hisses badly with all the headphones that I have at all gains/volume. This amp really surprised me, it never hisses at all gains with any headphone.
  
  
 I am selling my G109S to get the G109A ... I guess it is worth the upgrade.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## ken1mbhf

I'm joining the chorus here, but as an owner of G109's cousin the V100, I will say that the amp offers a very satisfying sense of ownership. The aluminum front plate and volume knob feel nice to the touch, as does the specially coated top cover. And these are backed by a clean, neutral sound with gobs of power, so there is not much for me to complain 
  
 Someone above mentioned using G109 with Concero HD, so I'll add that my V100 and Concero (first-gen) work in great synergy.


----------



## Guerny

guerny said:


> (I cant really afford a G103 -> V200 upgrade...)


 
  
 So i actually found an affordable second-hand V200... and have it set up at work now with my Alpha Dogs and RL Concero.
  
 Life is Good!  
  
 Cheers,
 G


----------



## linglingjr

bonobo said:


> Maybe a newbie question, but are there any RCA/cinch cables included when you order the Lake People G109P? Or should you buy these separate? Any good suggestions (not too expensive )
> 
> PS: I'm going to use the Concero HD dac.


 
 If you haven't got them already, I say go for the super cheap monoprice rcas.  Great quality and ofc and all that and they're cheap.  CHEAP.
  
 Didn't know that they made a limited edition g109, I'm not a big fan of the colors.


----------



## monkey046

How well do they work with HD650 and HD 700 from Senn?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sam21

power-wise, there should be no problems since these can drive anything thrown at them.


----------



## Tuneslover

monkey046 said:


> How well do they work with HD650 and HD 700 from Senn?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 I have the HD650 and HE500 and the G109S can drive them with ease.


----------



## silverbox

natemact said:


> If you're going single ended rca then look at the G109-S as the "P" adds xlr input.
> 
> I gotta say, having previously owned a G109P, I think that in today's market Lake People may be asking a little too much for their 109s/p. Five years ago? Sure...but it just seems to me that today, >$600 is a lot to ask for the SQ the 109 provides. Doesn't help keep costs down when it's made in Germany either  Class leading quality, just not class leading SQ with the 109 in my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
 Seriously what can possibly improve on headphone amps in terms of SQ in 5 years? This isn't rocket science. When it comes to amps in general there really should be no "better" or "worse" SQ if you know what I mean? At least not at these prices. I am not a believer in amp sound quality but this is perhaps a topic for the sound science forum.
  
 Anyway I chose 109-A instead of H10 because; H10 is simply too big for my desk, I don't need balanced and now that the price of H10 has gone up due to massive hype, its only like $20 cheaper than 109-A. H10 is $370 on Amazon, similar on various ebay stores and I'd rather not buy something this expensive from Aliexpress.


----------



## project86

Massdrop has a special version of the  G109 available - the G109A (for Anniversary Edition). Price is $429 plus $10.50 shipping to the USA. It's got a few internal tweaks, and a new front panel appearance, but doesn't deviate too far from the G109S in general. Seems like a good buy for the price.


----------



## henkie196

That golden look on that anniversary edition is a bit too gaudy for me.


----------



## monkey046

tuneslover said:


> I have the HD650 and HE500 and the G109S can drive them with ease.


 
 Awesome. Thanks!


----------



## luvmusik

Any pros or cons about the Violectric V90 ? Need to read all 400+ posts. Was ready to buy a G109A after looking at G109S and G103S, Audio GD C-2 (NFB-1), Cavalli Liquid Carbon (sold out), and Meier's Classic_Jazz_Rock models . Then looked at V100 (too much as new for me)  and finally am thinking of buying V90. Like the gain switches on the back without having to open the case, and also the pre-outs on the V90.
  
 Would use on HD650, K701, CD3000, HE400i, T20RPv2, ID-1, YH-100, DT770, M-1, Jubilate-64, ESW9A, TH-X00, some others, and maybe a future buy of HD800, so want to get an all-around amp (tall order) for dynamics & planars. Like amp that is neutral but pleasant, hi power, hi-current, hi damp, for hi or lo impedances and noise-free with great performance. $500 new is my limit. There is an active massdrop running now for V90 at best price $400 (12 join), or $424 (8 join), $450 (4 join). On mfr site winter sale 15% off gets the V90 for $450 also.
  
 For sound I like neutral presentation with low, deep, impactful & extended, tight bass, brilliant sparkling highs and a detailed, linear midrange. Good dynamics, and like to hear the inherent nature of the headphones, not anything added by the amp - liking an uncolored amp. Only need rca connectors. Maybe the pre-out function is less important - what are some of the best uses for pre-outs ?
  
 Don't understand the specifics, but internally the V90, V100, G109A/S and G103S differ somewhat, dunno if that makes significant difference ? So far like the versatility of functions on the V90.
  
 Could buy a used amp for <$500, which ups me to a used V100 (but doubtful to reach V181), if it could be found used.
  
 Questions are -
 What sound difference could be expected for my purpose, between the four = G109A/S, G103S, V100 and V90 ?
 Has anyone tried a V90 with HD800 ? Have read the HD800 matches pretty good with the other 3 model amps (but V200 is over my price limit).
 What are some uses for pre-outs ?
 Any significant differences internally for the 4 models ?
  
 Also open to suggestion of other brands' solid-state models too. So far am liking the V90 ease to change gains.
 Stuck, what do you guys recommend, please ?


----------



## jaibautista

Joining in the fun! Good thing the person who reserved two units released one unit. Got 007/300! 
  

  
 @luvmusik
  
 I was able to try the Violectric V90 side-by-side with the G109A (my choice essentially boiled down to those two amps). In my very short comparo, I felt the V90 has a tad darker sound signature relative to the G109A. If the V90 sounded as if there's a thin veil separating me from the performer, the G109A sounded clear. The G109A will give you what the song would want you to hear. If it has lots of deep, impactful bass, the G109A will give you that; if the song has a touch of warmth, it will also give you that. It's neutral yet very musical. 
  
 I hope I am making sense here.


----------



## project86

I haven't heard the V90 but the G103 should be somewhat similar (vaguely), and I agree with the post above. It's fine by itself but in comparison to the G109 the lesser unit does come off as a bit dark.


----------



## luvmusik

Thanks, guys, this helps. Seems my choice is to either go total clarity with G109A, or have versatility of easy gain selection & preouts on V90, with a tad bit darker veiled sound. Tough decision to make. If I could find the V100 used, it may combine the best attributes of the two models - clarity & versatility, but then may not have a warranty. If the darkness & veiling of the V90 is just a tad bit off from the clearer G109A, then maybe the V90 will work for me.
  
 I wish the G109A had easy to access gains adjustments - that would solve the problem, but I can't remove cover in between switching headphones back & forth a lot, and don't want to leave the cover off either (if functional that way). Is the V90 darkness/veiling predominate or pretty close to clarity of G109A ? A-B test is awesome for that info, Thanks ! Maybe without an A-B, it might be hard to percieve difference ? I dunno, just trying to sort it out. Tuff choice to make.


----------



## Sam21

luvmusik said:


> Thanks, guys, this helps. Seems my choice is to either go total clarity with G109A, or have versatility of easy gain selection & preouts on V90, with a tad bit darker veiled sound. Tough decision to make. If I could find the V100 used, it may combine the best attributes of the two models - clarity & versatility, but then may not have a warranty. If the darkness & veiling of the V90 is just a tad bit off from the clearer G109A, then maybe the V90 will work for me.
> 
> I wish the G109A had easy to access gains adjustments - that would solve the problem, but I can't remove cover in between switching headphones back & forth a lot, and don't want to leave the cover off either (if functional that way). Is the V90 darkness/veiling predominate or pretty close to clarity of G109A ? A-B test is awesome for that info, Thanks ! Maybe without an A-B, it might be hard to percieve difference ? I dunno, just trying to sort it out. Tuff choice to make.


 
 G109A is the better amp, I was in the same boat as you are and I chose 109S[asked lake people], The middle gain setting should cover all your needs unless you are using very sensitive IEMs or very power hungry planars...


----------



## luvmusik

Thanks, Sam, do you think the middle gain setting will pair well with these planars - HiFiMan HE400i, Yamaha YH-100, Fostex T20RPv2, and the oddly power-hungry vintage Wharfedale first original "Isodynamic Headphone" - later badged ID-1 model ? The Wharfs are my most power hungry, probably down 25% audible volume at equal volume setting from all other cans. The specs are 120 ohm impedance, 30mW input sensitivity for 95 db SPL, power handling maximum input not to exceed 25 v rms. Some odd specs,and all I got on Wharf specs, but they need power. Have a feeling the Lake People or Violectric should pump them up well. The G109A was my first choice and maybe I don't need pre-outs from the V90. What are some of the best uses for pre-outs ?


----------



## Tuneslover

sam21 said:


> G109A is the better amp, I was in the same boat as you are and I chose 109S[asked lake people], The middle gain setting should cover all your needs unless you are using very sensitive IEMs or very power hungry planars...




I have the G109s that I use with HD650 and HE500 and I too fiddled around with the 3 gain settings but eventually settled on the middle setting and it's been there for over a year now. I have no intentions of re-checking the other 2 gain selections because these phones sound spectacular right there and I have plenty of volume knob control (I'm generally around the 50% mark) which is plenty loud for the 650's while the HE500's need 2-3 more clicks on the knob to reach the same loudness. This amp is very neutral and dead silent honestly conveying your source equipment. Of course a good DAC doesn't hurt either. Be warned, it will honestly tell you how good or how ****ty your system is so don't shoot the messenger! I have no complaints whatsoever, this is a seriously good amp that seems to be a bit of a secret in North America...by the way watch out for the knock-off version.


----------



## Sam21

My X7 can drive my HE-400 and T50RPmk3s properly which is way weaker than the G109.
  
 the G109x should have no problem driving those two headphones when it's on the middle gain, heck, I even think it can drive them at the low gain setting.


----------



## luvmusik

Thanks guys, Looks like I'm swinging back to the G109A based on better sound and middle gains setting should be fine. I would buy direct from LP site, it is on sale for $450.
  
 Can you tell me more about knock-off ? Does it have a distinguishing look different from LP, or is front or back marked differently ? Are those floating around used or from some weird site ?
  
 Sometimes massdrop has B-stocks, but they mark them as such & I would avoid those just for comfort. Dunno if those are cosmetic B-stock or something more serious.
  
 Also, what uses are headamp pre-outs for, other than running powered desk-top loudspeakers ?


----------



## Sam21

you can use the pre-amp to redirect the signal to another device, Like another headphone amp or speakers ..etc..
  
  
 The A version uses higher quality capacitors, the S/P versions use ordinary ones.


----------



## luvmusik

Cool. I think won't be needing the pre-outs, and it helps swing me back to getting G109A to get the better sound. Don't have Sennheiser HD800, it is a future savings project possibly. Read that G109A/S/P and HD800 play well together. May be a nice dollar-value combination as a used HD800 together with a new G109A.


----------



## Tuneslover

luvmusik said:


> Thanks guys, Looks like I'm swinging back to the G109A based on better sound and middle gains setting should be fine. I would buy direct from LP site, it is on sale for $450.
> 
> Can you tell me more about knock-off ? Does it have a distinguishing look different from LP, or is front or back marked differently ? Are those floating around used or from some weird site ?
> 
> ...




Sorry, I was being sarcastic...Gustard shamelessly copied the Lake People product at a cheaper price.


----------



## luvmusik

Oh, OK, I read about that and also that the Gustard  (? H10 recalling ?) doesn't sound as good. Something about the bass rolls-off weak & hi's roll-off too if recalling correctly.


----------



## luvmusik

Read thru the entire thread, and all links too; just finished now, Whew ! Great thread, learned a lot. Important note was about the voltage versions. The thread shows a few fellas are running HD800 with G109 and say they play well together. Good reason to buy a new G109A now and start saving up my measely rubles for a used HD800 one day in the future.
  
 Liking the G109A sturdy construction over the Audio GD C-2 (NFB-1), feel very confident for the Lake People's unit over many years longevity.
 The Meier's Classic-Jazz-Rock models were contenders, but just didn't float my boat for some reason, in making a choice.
 The Cavalli Liquid Carbon was the closest for me, but over my allowable budget, sold out, and not sure when reappearing, at what price.
  
 The Lake People G109A model is the right fit for me; and the G103S, V90 or even a used V100 were really close calls for me in deciding.
  
 We posted about a clone, and actually there is a clone of the V200 selling now (I am not affiliated). Ebay item #271575409411. Unit is an "Accurate Audio Studio HPA-A200". Just mentioning it as some may want to cast a wary eyeball on this unit.
  
 I am sticking to the fine folks at Lake People, the fine German engineering, and if ever needed, the great advice & support they back their gear & customers with.
  
 Thank you to the head-fier's who helped me to arrive at my choice. The info about the sound characteristic foremost and gains functionality & pre-outs usage was valuable in my choice on the G109A. Thanks guys for helping.


----------



## jaibautista

@luvmusik
  
 You'll enjoy your time with the G109A. I am using it to power a dynamic driver HP (a Senn HD600) and a planar HP (a HifiMan HE-400i) and the G109A is performing an admirable job making each headphone's strengths shine, as well as sticking close to the source. If anything, I would describe the G109A as "having clarity with authority". I am coming from a Cypher Labs Duet amp and even if the difference between the two amps isn't really night-and-day, I appreciate the extra separation in the frequencies, the added clarity, and an extra bit of resolution from the G109A.


----------



## luvmusik

Thanks, Just placed order & have receipt. Bought G109A direct from Violectric-USA and total including shipping was $440. Good deal, and wanted to get order in fast before 2016 turns the calendar. The site shows in stock, was $570, sale priced to $500 and they had a "Winter-15" code for another 15% off for now, so I jumped. It ships close too. Even like the front plate colors and graphics, in a way somewhat reminiscent of vintage Marantz gear, with the scripted writing at top of front plate, although unique here.
  
 Cool info about your rig and it's sound description, we're running almost the same headphones and it is comforting to see that. Eager to hear this, a New Year's acquisition !


----------



## luvmusik

Even the name "Lake People" is cool...kinda mysterious in a spooky-good way.


----------



## jaibautista

BTW, to those who are curious how the G109A internals look like, I took a picture of mine. The only difference I see, through the naked eye, is the use of gold capacitors (I believe these are Nichicon, based on Lake People's disclosure):


----------



## jaibautista

To those who are familiar with the G109 circuitry:
  
 I noticed that the amp does not have any "heat sinks". Is this normal? I've checked pics of internals of higher-end Violectric amps (V100, V181, V200, etc.) and noticed that these have heat sinks for these amps' transistors. 
  
 Although I have yet to make my G109 warm enough to make me concerned about frying its electronics, I am curious why its design doesn't feature any heat sink.
  
 Thanks to whoever answers my query!


----------



## plakat

luvmusik said:


> Even the name "Lake People" is cool...kinda mysterious in a spooky-good way.




They are pretty acted at the shores of Lake Konstanz, therefore their name 



jaibautista said:


> To those who are familiar with the G109 circuitry:
> 
> I noticed that the amp does not have any "heat sinks". Is this normal? I've checked pics of internals of higher-end Violectric amps (V100, V181, V200, etc.) and noticed that these have heat sinks for these amps' transistors.
> 
> ...




The use of heat sinks depends on the thermal requirements of the electronic components, their electric working point and the components own ability to dissipate heat. The presence or absence of heat sinks should not interpreted as a sign of quality (or absence thereof), and while it may be a cost factor the necessity of heat sinks depends primarily on the electrical layout and the design of the enclosure.

Your observation that your G109 does not get really warm is an indication that there's not much heat to dissipate and obviously Lake People saw no need for heat sinks. No need to worry about that I think.


----------



## mkrzych

I have G103 paired with T90. Anyone can say that G109 is sonically much better than G103 - of course except power etc.? Just curious?


----------



## jaibautista

plakat said:


> The use of heat sinks depends on the thermal requirements of the electronic components, their electric working point and the components own ability to dissipate heat. The presence or absence of heat sinks should not interpreted as a sign of quality (or absence thereof), and while it may be a cost factor the necessity of heat sinks depends primarily on the electrical layout and the design of the enclosure.
> 
> Your observation that your G109 does not get really warm is an indication that there's not much heat to dissipate and obviously Lake People saw no need for heat sinks. No need to worry about that I think.


 
  
 Thank you very much for the speedy feedback!
  
 This is my first time to own a desktop amp. And I don't know anything about electronics. As far as I am concerned, as long as the amp outputs great music according to my preferences, I'm all good. On the other hand, I am also aware that I have to learn even some basic electronics stuff if I were to fully appreciate how my G109 works.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## plakat

jaibautista said:


> Thank you very much for the speedy feedback!
> 
> This is my first time to own a desktop amp. And I don't know anything about electronics. As far as I am concerned, as long as the amp outputs great music according to my preferences, I'm all good. On the other hand, I am also aware that I have to learn even some basic electronics stuff if I were to fully appreciate how my G109 works.
> 
> Thanks again!


 

 You're welcome. Most important is to enjoy the music... often the technical details distract more than they help actually. So have fun -- thats what these things are built for.


----------



## rad212

I just received my G109A this weekend. 2 day shipping arrived on Saturday! I have both HD-600's and the HE-500's and the G109A sounds better to my ears than my WA-6 does with the HE-500. More clarity, focus and cleaner,deep bass.The default gain settings are just right so no need to fiddle with the jumpers. I love the feel of the volume control, overall this is a great little headphone amp and the 2 x ¼-in front phone jacks are a nice benefit when you own 2 sets of phones
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Highly recommended


----------



## Koolpep

And it's back on massdrop. The 30 year special edition. I jumped on it, always wanted a lake people amp. Konstanz is such a lovely city. Studied in Kempten, not far from there.....sigh memories....


----------



## bobpensik

I am strongly considering joining the Massdrop offer as well, but I'm trying to decide what would pair better with my HD650, a Concero HP or Lake People G109A + Herus. Anyone have an opinion?


----------



## Sam21

I bought the G109-S a couple of years ago, I am wondering if the G109-A would be considered an upgrade to the G019-S both sonically and specification-wise ? 
  
  
 Also, if I place an order on the European web site, would the input AC Voltag/Current be compatible with the US power outlet ?


----------



## fdg

Hello Sam21
 The G109-A is the 30th anniversary model form Lake People and offers "musical" Nichicon capacitors in the power supply, the protection relay from G109-P, metallized feet and a special front panel.
 From the specs it is ranged a bit over G109-S - if this can be heard is another question ...
 Anyway it is a 300 pieces limited edition and there are only few items left.
 Like all other items from Lake People the unit can be set to 230 V or 115 V AC operation when ordered from Lake People Germany.
 You will receive an item with the right AC voltage and the right mains cord when ordering from www.Violectric-USA.com.
  
 Best Regards
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## Sam21

fdg said:


> Hello Sam21
> The G109-A is the 30th anniversary model form Lake People and offers "*musical*" Nichicon capacitors in the power supply, the protection relay from G109-P, metallized feet and a special front panel.
> From the *specs* it is ranged *a bit *over G109-S - if this can be heard is another question ...
> Anyway it is a 300 pieces limited edition and there are only few items left.
> ...


 
  
 So you are saying that the difference is negligible and an upgrade isn't worth it, right ?
  
 I also notice that the A version has a 5.0 VA power supply whereas the S version has a 3.5 VA power supply, does this affect the power ratings in anyway ?
  
 Also, on your website the A and S versions share the same specs, Can you explain why ?
  
 Also, Is there gonna be another G109-A drop at massdrop.com ?
  
 Many Thanks


----------



## fdg

@ Sam21
 For sound reasons I don´t think that G109-A is an upgrade over G109-S.
 The circuitry of the amp is the same - and I don´t believe in massive sound enhancement because of better capacitors in the power supply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes, it may be that G109-A sound a bit smoother but I am not sure if that could be proved in a double-blind test.
 The specs of G109-A and G109-S are the same because the current limiters from the circuitry are calculated for the 3.5 + 3.5 VA transformer.
 We are using a “bigger” 5 + 5 VA transformer inside G109-A.
 Because of the “conservative” current limiters this has no influence on the output power.
 Designing an amp with only 8 dB (factor 2.5) gain is somehow tricky because with this small amount of feedback ringing, oscillation, unstable operation is feasible.
 This is why most competitors have much more gain. But more gain yield more noise and the black background suffers.  
 We succeeded in making an amp that is powerful and stable despite the low gain and it took a long time to get there.
 This is the reason why we did not squeezed the G109-A circuitry to more power.
 Inside G109-A the 40 % extra power from the transformer serves for relaxed operation - maybe also this is audible.   

 Well, the stock of this G109-A limited edition is melting faster than we expected.
 Basically we intended to end sales during the Munich HiEnd show in May.
 If there is any stock left afterwards I can imagine it will appear on Massdrop.

 Thank you, Fried Reim


----------



## luvmusik

Hello Fried,
  
 Enjoy reading the details of the comparison between models you posted.
  
 Could you also please give a similar detailed comparison between G109A and V100, please ?
  
 I own both, find them sensational, and keep them in 2 different locations. Always wondered about the fine points in comparison between the two and eager to learn from you. Thanks.


----------



## TreesGrassStone

Ive read pretty much this whole thread now, very interesting!
  
 Ive been trying to read up on comparisons between Schiit Magni 2 and LP g103.
 109 is unfortunately out of my price range atm.
 Using it for mixing with DT880 pro and rme Babyface.
  
 - Which one is the most neutral sounding between Magni 2 and g103?
 Im using it solely for mixing so needs to be as true to the source as possible.
 Best sound isn't what I'm after, id rather it said it like it is 
  
 - Is having balanced XLR ins a big upgrade over unbalanced RCA for studio use?
  
 Schiit price is half of LP, which is interesting, but Ive heard some peoples drivers have been blown by the magni 2, this makes me reluctant to say the least.


----------



## Sam21

G109-S/A are wonderful amps, I am so happy I bought it


fdg said:


> @ Sam21
> For sound reasons I don´t think that G109-A is an upgrade over G109-S.
> The circuitry of the amp is the same - and I don´t believe in massive sound enhancement because of better capacitors in the power supply
> 
> ...


 
 You mean the extra 40% does nothing, right ? So I guess the noise floor/SNR/THD/IMD/CROSSTALK and all the other specs remain the same, except the capacitors are different types which doesn't make a difference since each type has its own charachteristics/flavour but spec-wise and measurment-wise they(both types of Capacitors) are in the same tier/class. Just like OP-AMP rolling in amps with OP-AMPS[I know it is a bad analogy (drawing a parallel between Capacitors and OP-AMPs), just wanting to clarify the situation]  , different op amps that are in the same class(have the same specs and measurments) function the same and it is just a matter of flavour...
  
  
 G109-S/A are wonderful amps, I am so happy I bought it, I downgraded all my audio stuff but this amp because it is dead silent and has lots of power.


----------



## Tuneslover

sam21 said:


> G109-S/A are wonderful amps, I am so happy I bought it, I downgraded all my audio stuff but this amp because it is dead silent and has lots of power.




I agree wholeheartedly that the LP G109S amp is a terrific amp for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I've had mine for almost 2 years in my primary audio system and have no intention of ever parting with it.


----------



## fdg

@ luvmusik

 Lake People G109 (A) and Violectric V100 share the same amp topology and so the output power is nearly identical.
 However, V100 is made with standard thru-hole components which need more PCB space while G109 is made with as much surface mount components as possible.
 This measure lowers the production costs and for my opinion all G109 makes suffer a microscopic bit in sound under special circumstances compared with the more conservative "brother" V100.
 Again, nothing to be clearly discovered doing double-blind tests.
  
 Both amps differ a lot when it comes to the mechanical efforts.
 While G109 offers a "good" build quality, V100 is often quoted to be built like a tank.

 In fact the case of V100 is double as thick as the one from G109, it is much deeper and nextel coated.

 The front panel from G109 is 3 mm thick, only a bit grinded and the edges are a bit rounded while the front panel from V100 is 8 mm thick, milled from both sides, glass blasted, grinded and laser engraved.

 But there is also something special about the silk screening of G109-A.
 Here the paint is not applied after the anodizing but is part of the anodizing process itself.
 So it is finally in the surface and not on the surface. 

 V100 offers the possibility of having a digital input and is more comfortable when it comes to set the Pre-Gain.
 Finally I would say that G109 is an amp for those who like to have the Lake People / Violectric sound (if there is any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and don´t care that much about a special appearance, while V100 is the choice for those who share the opinion that good gear must also have its attitude / look / weight !


 @ [color=windowtext]TreesGrassStone[/color]

 I am the wrong person to judge the sound of the competition compared to the sound of our gear.
 What I can say is that we work hard to design amps with “no sound”.
 Both amps, G103 and Magni will offer more than enough power for low impedance headphones.

 However, from the technical point of view G103 will offer much more output voltage swing - what is essential for high impedance headphones like DT880.

 And, maybe an important point, I don´t know anybody who ruined his headphones with our amps.

 Also I would recommend to go for the XLR version.
 You can drive it also with unbalanced signals with the aid of an adaptor.
 But the main advantage is the quad pre-gain instead of double pre-gain with G109-S.
  
 Thank you,

 Fried Reim


----------



## mkrzych

fdg said:


> @ luvmusik
> 
> Lake People G109 (A) and Violectric V100 share the same amp topology and so the output power is nearly identical.
> However, V100 is made with standard thru-hole components which need more PCB space while G109 is made with as much surface mount components as possible.
> ...


 

 Fair answer Fried. I have G103 driving Beyers T90 with 250ohm impedance on default gain settings and it's more than enough power for them, very rare going over the half of the pot - time to time if there is record done quite like some of the Chandos records. For 600Ohm cans I probably need to change the gain.
  
 As it goes for the sound, my answer is indeed, it's without the sound signature and very good, black background - this is for G103. Don't know what other amps can bring (what is audible) to it except the gain and look...


----------



## luvmusik

Hello Fried,
  
 Thank you for the information & your time, it is greatly appreciated & solves my curiousity.
  
 Have been telling many folks about how I really like both my G109-A and V-100.
  
 Thanks for making these super amps.


----------



## 0rangutan

fdg said:


> And, maybe an important point, I don´t know anybody who ruined his headphones with our amps.
> 
> Fried Reim


 
  
 This is definitely an important point!
  
 I won't buy Schiit products again after a Lyr amp blew a driver on my Beyerdynamics.
  
 Never had a single problem of any sort with G103, G109, V200 and V800.


----------



## TreesGrassStone

Thanks Fried, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this in depth. I'm making an order for a lake people amp tomorrow!


----------



## mkarikom

Hey, can anybody confirm that the aq Evergreen RCA heads will fit the recessed input sockets on the G109/103?


----------



## Sam21

mkarikom said:


> Hey, can anybody confirm that the aq Evergreen RCA heads will fit the recessed input sockets on the G109/103?


 
 it fits, I have the evergreens between my G109S and X7.


----------



## mkarikom




----------



## Ranstedt

treesgrassstone said:


> Thanks Fried, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this in depth. I'm making an order for a lake people amp tomorrow!


 
 Which amp did you buy and how do you like it with the babyface?


----------



## Rearwing

Can I ask a Newb question please? Will the G109 pair nicely with my Chord Hugo and HE 500's?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tuneslover

rearwing said:


> Can I ask a Newb question please? Will the G109 pair nicely with my Chord Hugo and HE 500's?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 I don't have the Hugo (I have Bifrost MB) but the HE500 sounds really nice through my G109.


----------



## Rearwing

Thank you for your reply, everything helps in getting me closer to pressing the button!


----------



## TreesGrassStone

I got the G103P. Sounds great: flat and detailed, really pleased. Wayy more volume than i could every imagine using. Im at 9-10 o'clock maximum on the volume knob.


ranstedt said:


> Which amp did you buy and how do you like it with the babyface?


----------



## kottav

I just joined the club with the G109-A. It is great!
  

  
  
 Build:
  
 The amp is sharp looking with a nice black finish. The gold silk screening has a nice appearance, as well as the gold feet. The amp looks like a classic piece of hifi equipment and will fit on any desk. I believe anyone who sees it will notice that it is for serious sound quality.
  
 The volume knob moves with a satisfying clunk. Channel balance as you move the volume dial is perfect. The ALPS potentiometer behind the dial is called "blue velvet" for a reason. The power LED is bright enough so that you can notice it, but dim enough as to not distract.
  
 The supplied power cable fits loosely into the socket on the amp. This caused some confusion on my initial setup when the amp didn't turn on. After a quick finesse, it turned right on. I just wish it was a better fit.
  
 I wish the RCA jacks stuck out further from the chassis. This hasn't been a problem in practice though.
  
 During operation the amp never feels warm to the touch. Even under heavy loads, it feels like it is operating around room temperature. I hear this is a problem with other amps such as the Schiit Asgard. You don't have to worry about stacking equipment with this amp. It will be fine with a DAC on top or beneath.
  
 Sound:
  
 The appears to "let the headphones do the talking." It sounds totally neutral to my ears. The detail is much more impressive that what I was used to with my Nuforce uDAC-3.
  
 I tried the amp with two pairs of headphones: Hifiman HE-560 and Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm
 I can't believe that one amplifier can do a respectable job of powering these two headphones which are polar opposites as far as electrical requirements go. Yet the G109-A does this so well. Both headphones have enough power to sound great. The engineers at Lake People really know how to design an amp.
  
 Bass:
  
 The bass is powerful and punchy. It has the weight that is needed with none of the bloat that you don't. Most importantly the bass is accurate; it presents itself only when needed.
  
 Mids:
  
 The vocals are super realistic with a natural timbre. You can hear more detail in the vocals than you can with lower end amps. It's great to hear details in your favorite recordings that you didn't know existed.
  
 Overall, the mids are fluid and natural. They seem balanced with the rest of the frequency spectrum.
  
 Treble:
  
 The treble sparkles with this amp. It may even be slightly bright or it could be the headphones I'm pairing it with (HE-560 and DT-880) both of which are know to be a tad bright. The amp is never bright to the point of sibilence with the HE-560s. The same can't be said for the DT-880s which can become sibilant at times. Either way, the treble detail is well resolved. Things such as a cymbal hit have decay that I've never heard before on other setups.
  
 Soundstage:
  
 I love this part. The G109-A allows the listener to exactly pinpoint where the instruments are in the recording. The soundstage is wide with plenty of airiness.
  
 Summary:
  
 The Lake People G109-A represents a great value at it's price point. It is a noticeable step up from beginner amps and worth the price difference. It is an intelligent design that is built like a tank with high quality components.  The sound it produces is wonderful. It can drive any headphone; you don't need to worry that your next set of headphones will sound bad paired with it.
  
 I'm very happy with my purchase.


----------



## Tuneslover

kottav said:


> I just joined the club with the G109-A. It is great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Welcome to the Club!


----------



## wild bill

Is the massdrop version the lowest cost way to get one of these amps?


----------



## kottav

I bought mine straight from violectric-usa.com and it was very close in price to the massdrop price. It also gets shipped right away when you buy from them unlike massdrop.


----------



## wild bill

kottav said:
			
		

>





kottav said:


> I bought mine straight from violectric-usa.com and it was very close in price to the massdrop price. It also gets shipped right away when you buy from them unlike massdrop.


 
  
 thanks! - looks like it is on sale for $425 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 now if I just could discern the precise technical differences in the following:
  
 ● G109-A
 ● G109-P
 ● G109-S
 ● HPA V90


----------



## project86

The only differences between S and P models is the P has balanced inputs while S is RCA. The A is special edition with some minor tweaks to capacitors and such, along with the gold lettering.


----------



## wild bill

project86 said:


> The only differences between S and P models is the P has balanced inputs while S is RCA. The A is special edition with some minor tweaks to capacitors and such, along with the gold lettering.


 
  
 Is there anywhere on their website to see a chart or something showing the precise differences? - I am surprised that I cannot find where this is precisely spelled out.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## project86

P is for Pro and S is for... Simplified? I'm not actually 100% but that's how I remember it. It's like having a truck available in 2 wheel drive as well as 4WD options. Mostly the same vehicle but minor differences on those certain aspects only. This applied to G103 as well as G109.
  


  
 See the only difference there?
  
  
 The A has been discussed by Fried a few pages ago. He spells out the differences making that model unique.


----------



## JK-47

project86 said:


> P is for Pro and S is for... Simplified? I'm not actually 100% but that's how I remember it. It's like having a truck available in 2 wheel drive as well as 4WD options. Mostly the same vehicle but minor differences on those certain aspects only. This applied to G103 as well as G109.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The G103P is balanced in only, no Rca input. TheG109P has both balanced and RCA's inputs


----------



## project86

jk-47 said:


> The G103P is balanced in only, no Rca input. TheG109P has both balanced and RCA's inputs


 
  
  
 Good point! Not really enough room on the 103 to fit both.


----------



## vadergr

Is the g103s superior to schiit magni2 uber/asgard 2? 
Any other amp in the same price range? 
The goal is to drive the fostex t50rp mk3.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## wild bill

vadergr said:


> Is the g103s superior to schiit magni2 uber/asgard 2?
> Any other amp in the same price range?
> The goal is to drive the fostex t50rp mk3.


 
  
 YES! - well at least for the G109, it is superior to ANY Schiit amp - and it is one of the very few out there, and the only inexpensive one, that will drive the mk3 properly, especially if you like serious volume sometimes.  The reason is that it is both high power AND high current, both of which the mk3 needs.


----------



## listenothear

Hi guys, brief question!
 for my hd650 and k701.
 buy v200 or save some money to feed my children and take G109? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 no, seriously, any sugestion with any of you guys have compared these two?
 if it is not that much improvement from G109 to v200, i better be saving some money up and take G109 instead


----------



## 0rangutan

listenothear said:


> Hi guys, brief question!
> for my hd650 and k701.
> buy v200 or save some money to feed my children and take G109?
> 
> ...


 

 ​The G109 is a superb amp, very close to the V200 and will certainly save you some money.
 I think it depends whether buying the G109 will leave you with nagging doubts about not having bought the V200!  If you are confident in your resolve then go for the G109 (or even the G103)


----------



## listenothear

0rangutan said:


> ​The G109 is a superb amp, very close to the V200 and will certainly save you some money.
> I think it depends whether buying the G109 will leave you with nagging doubts about not having bought the V200!  If you are confident in your resolve then go for the G109 (or even the G103)




that's the problem, I don't know if I can not to nag about v200, if im taking g109 
On the other hand, it is a close one to v200, and only almost a half of the vios price!
I certainly am leaning towards v200 more, but...
Well I think Im going to flip a coin on this one


----------



## 0rangutan

listenothear said:


> that's the problem, I don't know if I can not to nag about v200, if im taking g109
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 FWIW, having owned both, if I were looking to buy another dedicated headphone amp today, I would definitely chose the G109 and pocket the spare cash.
 To complicate things further, you could consider the Gustard V200 clone, but personally it feels wrong to sponsor that kind of business model (Massdrop should know better) plus it is pig ugly.


----------



## listenothear

0rangutan said:


> FWIW, having owned both, if I were looking to buy another dedicated headphone amp today, I would definitely chose the G109 and pocket the spare cash.
> To complicate things further, you could consider the Gustard V200 clone, but personally it feels wrong to sponsor that kind of business model (Massdrop should know better) plus it is pig ugly.


 

 that was also my option before, but i thought it wouldn't really be as good as v200.
 then again, you suggest me, now i do think this as an option again.
 have you ever tried it?
 if yes, what's your opinion about it compared to v200 and g109s
 (sry a little bit OOT)


----------



## 0rangutan

listenothear said:


> that was also my option before, but i thought it wouldn't really be as good as v200.
> then again, you suggest me, now i do think this as an option again.
> have you ever tried it?
> if yes, what's your opinion about it compared to v200 and g109s
> (sry a little bit OOT)


 

 I haven't heard the Gustard model.  As I mentioned, I wouldn't want to sponsor such blatant cloning.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## terlingua

wild bill said:


> thanks! - looks like it is on sale for $425
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if anyone realize, now the price jump to 5000 euro for G109-A (limited edition) on http://lake-people.de/produktdetails/G109-A-e.htm 
 Wondering why… maybe because of limited edition???


----------



## jaibautista

Just visited Lake People's website.. Looks like they've added some new amps in their line-up

G105
G107

I think the Eur5,000 G109A is just a typo. Otherwise i'm selling mine at Eur4,000. :3


----------



## Tuneslover

Hello again! I'm still enjoying my G109S, it's my primary headphone amp.

Just out of curiosity what's your favorite headphone with the G109S?


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> Hello again! I'm still enjoying my G109S, it's my primary headphone amp.
> 
> Just out of curiosity what's your favorite headphone with the G109S?




@fdg...what is YOUR favorite headphone with the G109S?


----------



## Tuneslover

After introducing the Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC to my G109S I found that the amp doesn't play quite as authoritatively as without the MB. This morning I decided to open up the G109S and move the jumpers to high gain. Much more to my liking now, more immediate and fuller sounding with both HE500 and HD650. Naturally the added gain has me dialing back the volume knob from 2 o'clock to 11 o'clock.


----------



## xevman

My g109 just arrived today. One weird quirk the unit has is that the power button is sticky. To turn the unit off you need to physically pull the power button back. Anyone else experienced this?


----------



## RiO

The G109P was out of reach for me budget-wise so I ordered the G105 to pair with my Audient audio interface. Here's some useful information Fried shared which may help others in the same boat:
  


> The amps of G105, G107, G109 have the same circuitry.
> However, G109 has the better volume control (Alps RK 27 instead of Alps RK 14) and the better transformer.
> It is a 7 or 10 W toroidal typ inside G109 and 2 x 2.8 W E-I typ inside G105/107.
> All amps offer a nearly identical sound signature, perhaps with some advantages towards G109.


----------



## Tuneslover

xevman said:


> My g109 just arrived today. One weird quirk the unit has is that the power button is sticky. To turn the unit off you need to physically pull the power button back. Anyone else experienced this?




No I have not heard of this problem before. It would seem that your unit has a problem. Contact your dealer to have it rectified.


----------



## xevman

tuneslover said:


> No I have not heard of this problem before. It would seem that your unit has a problem. Contact your dealer to have it rectified.


 
 Its now resolved. It was merely sticky, I just used the switch about 10 or 15 times and now it functions fine.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I just discovered this thread (wish I'd known about it months ago!). Well, better late than never. In April I took what seemed like a big "leap of faith" and spend over $400 on the G-109A - the Anniversary edition of the G-109 headphone amplifier. Up to that point I'd been doing all headphone listening through a FiiO 10K, which I thought sounded better than it had any right to at such low cost...(still like it). Just before the G-109A came in, I picked up a mint/used iFi ICAN, which somehow didn't thrill me, despite working perfectly & sounding very competent. Then I plugged into the G-109A.
  
 Wow! Suddenly I "got" what people meant when they talked about high-quality SS headphone amps. I was hearing so much detail, clarity, and soundstaging, but with no emphasis of any frequency & no fatiguing sibilance. Everything was just there, perfectly balanced. This amp is understated, no pretty to look at, but when you plug the phones in, it really does the job.
  
 I've listened to several a number of HP amps, including one, the Burson Soloist, which costs over twice what the G-109A cost. That's hardly a fair comparison: the Burson is also a true pre-amp, and the G-109A is not; also, the Burson has a special magic in the bass, but seems to hotspot treble. Regardless, no other amp I've heard really equals the G109A's balanced, even presentation.
  
 So my 2 "keeper" HP amps are the G-109A (the best) and the M Stage Matrix HPA-1, a pre-amp/HP amp that punches way above its weight--it's my day-to-day preamp & "convenience" HP amp for non-critical listening.
  
 I just love my G-109A!


----------



## Thunder240

Any G103P owners out there looking to "downgrade" to an unbalanced G103S"? If so, pls PM me. I'll pay the difference.


----------



## Drrizzt

Hey there, 
  
 i've just bought the G109, what a wonderfull amp to replace the Polaris.
  
 I'm noticing that i have to set up the volume to 3 o' clock in high gain with the LP in order to get it as loud at 12' with the polaris, isn't it supposed to be very powerfull ? M'i missing something out ?


----------



## Tuneslover

drrizzt said:


> Hey there,
> 
> i've just bought the G109, what a wonderfull amp to replace the Polaris.
> 
> I'm noticing that i have to set up the volume to 3 o' clock in high gain with the LP in order to get it as loud at 12' with the polaris, isn't it supposed to be very powerfull ? M'i missing something out ?




Move gain setting to high. Have to open the case and move jumper. See earlier in this thread for illustration.


----------



## Drrizzt

I forgot to mention it's already in high gain 
  
 (The can is the 300ohm HD600)


----------



## Tuneslover

drrizzt said:


> I forgot to mention it's already in high gain
> 
> (The can is the 300ohm HD600)




Hmm...I use HD650 and at 12 o'clock it's pretty darn loud. At 2:00 it's painful.

I'm at a loss, unless you really like your music very loud.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have the G109A (unbalanced version), and because my headphones are under 50 ohm, I never messed with gain. For me the amp has plenty of gain. If I push it much past ~11AM on the dial I'd go deaf.
  
 Re Tuneslover's volume issue, only a couple of possible causes come to mind. socks mk2 named one likely suspect--low voltage output from a source device. In my experience you're more likely to see high voltage than low from a source device, but one never knows. Since we know the HD600 is 300 ohms & gain is maxxed for that, the only other factor I can think of is sensitivity. Just checked the Sennheiser site and can't find a spec for that on the HD600s.
  
 I'm no EE, but I know that for headphones, sensitivity, somewhat like for loudpspeakers, can affect total loudness, such that a low sensivitity pair of phones can't get as loud as a high sensitivity pair, all else being equal.
  
 Still and all, the Lake People is no shrinking violet in power output. I'm surprised to hear it can't drive these headphones satisfactorily. Are all connections tight as can be?
  
 (sorry can't think of anything else)


----------



## Natalya

Hey  I'm considering Lake People G103-S in the future as a long-term investment for higher-impedance headphones. I've been looking around for reviews of it, but I haven't found much.
  
 If there is anyone that currently owns it, can tell me how it performs as an amp and if you would recommend it or not. Also what DAC pairing would go great with it.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Tuneslover

I have had this amp for a few years now and it drives my HE500 & HD650 very nicely. Drives them effortlessly and cleanly. It's a well engineered and solidly built amp. It is a notoriously transparent amp which is good if your source is clean. Earlier this year I added a Schiit Bimby DAC and the G109S conveys music it a very realistic way.

The 2 headphone outputs are a very nice feature that allows me to drive both of my power demanding headphones simultaneously without strain. The negatives are that there us no preamp out. Also making gain changes is a bit of a hassle because you need to remove 8 screws to open the unit up in order to move the jumpers. I experimented with all 3 settings and settled on the default setting for quite some time. After adding the Bimby I felt a bit more gain was desirable so I moved it to the 3rd (highest) setting.

Because this amp is so neutral it might come across as being a bit unexciting but I appreciate it's honestly and it's ability to permit you to hear how your headphones truly sound. I have no intention of ever parting with this amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

In my experience, it's hard to go wrong w/Lake People. But specific to Natalya's comment re getting the G103-S as a long-term investment for higher impedance headphones, I don't see why you wouldn't step up to the G109A for relatively little add'l money (~$70), more power, and a better stepped volume pot. Plus I & others have had experience with it.
  
 I haven't used the G-109A on high impedance headphones, but in my experience w/3 regular impedance headphones, the G109A can do no wrong. It's smooth as silk, slightly warm, grain-free, but very powerful. Sonically, everything is just there, right where it should be. It's honest w/o being in the least fatiguing, and it gives rich bass (for those 'phones that have it) w/o editorializing. Very few SS amps can do that...
  
 Specs below for both Lake People amps. Differences aren't huge, but they're all  in favor of the G109A...and it's also pretty clear that the G109A walks all over the G103S with regular impedance headphones (where most of the world lives, and were even Natalya may have a headphone or 2 needing amplification).
  


*G109A (list @$479, *but w/onsite coupon code it's becomes* $407.96)*
 "The limited-edition Lake People G109A celebrates 30 years of brand excellence with a special front panel design, striking gold silk screening, and matching gold metalized feet. Plus this model adds low-ESR Nichicon capacitors and a protection relay circuit (used in all Violectric models)."0
"The G109-A was developped with the target to enable highest transmission quality for low- , medium- and high-impedance headphones, as typical for most high-quality headsets. The amplifiers of G109-A are preciously designed with four transistors per channel. Due to its circuitry layout optimized in terms of noise and THD and specially adapted to the headphones mentioned above, the G109-A fulfils highest quality demands."
  
 [I'm almost certain the G109Astepped volume pot is an upgrade vs what the G103S has—it's easily the best stepped pot I've ever used…plenty of steps for every situation]
  
 Max. output level: 
 > 18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW; 
 > 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW; 
 > 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW; 
 > 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW; 
 > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW
  
*G103S (list $339)*
 "The variable gain structure of the G103 is best suited to drive low to high impedance headphones (16 - 600 Ohm). Connections consist of unbalanced RCA inputs and two 1/4" headphone connectors. This unit has a built-in power supply with a standard IEC socket. The complete case along with the front and back panel are made of anodized aluminum."
  
 Max. output level:  
 > 17.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 530 mW
 > 16.0 Veff in 300 ohms = 850 mW
 > 13.7 Veff in 200 ohms = 940 mW
 > 7.5 Veff in 50 ohms = 1130 mW
 > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 890 mW


----------



## project86

I've heard the G103P and G109P - not exactly the same as G103S versus G109A, but realistically the differences should be very minimal. 
  
 If the price difference isn't massive, and your budget allows, I'd go for the G109 for sure. It's a more refined sound that can scale well even with expensive DACs. G103 is a great little amp with a fun, warm signature, but G109 is clearly a step above.


----------



## Natalya

Thanks for the response!
  
 The G109A is definitely a possibility for me, and I've considered it a few times already, as I've seen nothing but praise for the G109 in general. The only thing that makes me hesitate from going above the G103S is that I want to save money for a good DAC to pair with it. On the other hand I could get the G109A and forego getting an amp for a while.


----------



## Pharmaboy

de nada. I've learned a LOT from Head-Fi'ers...your're more than welcome to whatever I know
  
 Re DACs (a deep subject!), if you're saving up for a big-bucks DAC, I'll shut up. After all, I just stepped up to the priciest DAC of my career (Audio GD NOS 19) and am loving it. I'd been moving toward a real digital upgrade for years, and doing a lot of headphone listening just pushed me over the edge.
  
 However...if you're not into spending big bucks, and especially if you're tolerant of delta-sigma DACs, I have an el cheapo suggestion: my favorite DAC ever is the humble Peachtree Audio DAC iTx (2nd rev). I tried various DACs over the years, but the little Peachtree unit was the first one that didn't have any real upper midrange/treble glare. It just sounded good to me, and that continued even w/headphones feeding good HP amps. It also had "galvanic isolation" which apparently is for real, since I detected no improvements whatever when I put a USB Regen ahead of the DAC iTx.
  
 I liked this DAC so much that I ended up w/2 of them: giving 1 to my brother w/a system I'm setting up for him; keeping the other as a spare. You can get a good used one for $175-$200 max.
  
 Of course, if you're hunting bigger game, good luck and watch out for your wallet!


----------



## Drrizzt

socks mk2 said:


> Maybe your source/dac has very low output voltage compared to most other products on the market? That or you're listening to "quiet" music with extremely high dynamic range (ex. 24/192 or above)?


 
  
 I'm using the HifimeDIY sabre 9018 as a source, i have no problem with it when plugged to my Polaris, plenty of power, i only have to push the volume forward to reach the same level with the LP g109, this is very strange!


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Drrizzt

socks mk2 said:


> Hmm. Not sure what else it could be. Is it possibly the difference of FR or size of the image between the 2 amps to go along with the power rating? A more closed in sound may be perceived as louder than a diffused sound. Having a hard time trying to convey what I mean here. Ex. I can volume match an HE-500 and T1.1, but the HE-500 has a much smaller image to work with compared to the T1.1. Everything is closer together and may be perceived as loud in direct comparison to the T1.1 where everything is distant/recessed in a holographic image all around you.


 
  
 Clever...
 It could have been the reason but...i don't think it's the cause. 
  
 When i open the case, the toroidal transformer is marked "115v", i'm in europe where we use 220v, could that be the reason ? 
  
 At first i was thinking the power output was divided by two because of the possibility to plug two headphones into it, that there was a switch to double the power when using only one headphone, well, i was wrong.


----------



## socks mk2

drrizzt said:


> Clever...
> It could have been the reason but...i don't think it's the cause.
> 
> When i open the case, the toroidal transformer is marked "115v", i'm in europe where we use 220v, could that be the reason ?
> ...


----------



## Drrizzt

Thx for posting the manual, i already read it yesterday, my english is terrible but like i said, i did'nt see any instructions relative to the lack of power that could explain my issue.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Drrizzt

socks mk2 said:


> Yes, it could in fact be the issue.
> Did you blow the fuse? :s


 
  
 Hahaha seems that i still can hear some music flowing through the amp, i guess not ^^


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## tyom86

Hello, all!
 How compared Violectric V100' sound vs Lake People G109?
  
 ..I had a V100 2.5 years, but I sold it and bought a new russian amplifier (great wide scene, beautiful reverberations..) - but it sounds too warm for me and vocal is liquid a little. I want go back: beautiful Lake People G109A (on thomann' site), G109P or V100. Euro is nearly 2 times more expensive than before: v100 a little dear for me now)
  
 How sounds G109: 90%.. 95%.. 97% of V100?
 Thank's)


----------



## RichardJefan

At the CanJam Europe 2016 in Essen Germany last weekend Lake People showed their new Lake People HPA RS 02 and HPA RS 08 (balanced!) models. Both are based on the Violectric V100 but have some nice tweaks. More later in a new thread.


----------



## tyom86

richardjefan said:


> new Lake People HPA RS 02 and HPA RS 08 (balanced!) models


 
  
 Wow, Thank You for this information!
 Very interesting


----------



## Tuneslover

drrizzt said:


> Hahaha seems that i still can hear some music flowing through the amp, i guess not ^^




My advice is to go to the Lake People/Violectric Germany web site and communicate to them directly with your predicament. Quite often the CEO himself will respond with feedback pertaining to an issue. Be specific with your concern and provide a detailed description of your equipment chain before and after your LP amp.

I think we would all be interested in hearing any feedback that you receive.


----------



## SSSN

The G103-P would be such a nice, no-frills amp. Too bad it's very noisy with IEMs,even on low gain


----------



## project86

sssn said:


> The G103-P would be such a nice, no-frills amp. Too bad it's very noisy with IEMs,even on low gain


 
  
  
 Mine isn't. I wonder if it is related to AC noise?


----------



## Tuneslover

I've been considering upgrading my Schiit Magni Über2 with the new Schiit Jotenheim. Amp wise I wonder how it compares with my LP G109S. Evidently this amp really pairs well with the HD650's but then so does the G109S. Curious if anyone out there has made this comparison?


----------



## Pharmaboy

I think right about now, a lot of people are wondering how the Jotenheim will compare with their amp of choice.
  
 I have the G109S (my version is the G109A); I know how it sounds & what it can do. I look at the Jotenheim, which costs slightly less than I paid for the G109A--but can also be used in balanced mode (I may need that someday) AND as a preamp--and I wonder 2 things:
  
 1. Will it have anything like that slightly warm, grainless, wide-band SS sound of the Lake People amp? Or will it have the drier, more analytical Schiit "house sound"? If the latter, count me out; if the former, I'm very interested.
  
 2. And how will it work & sound as a preamp? How good is the volume pot? Again, if it's works well as a pre-amp, I'm very interested.
  
 I haven't seen any real reviews of the Jotenheim yet, here or in the mainstream audio press. We're all waiting for more user feedback on this device.
  
 Purely on specs, the Jotenheim beats G109S by a mile. You'd have to step up to one of the more powerful Violectrics to come close to matching it. But unless you're driving real current-hungry diva-'phones (and I'm not) specs aren't everything. The Lake People/Violectric house sound isn't something I'll abandon to chase better specs.


----------



## novicez1

pharmaboy said:


> Purely on specs, the Jotenheim beats G109S by a mile. You'd have to step up to one of the more powerful Violectrics to come close to matching it. But unless you're driving real current-hungry diva-'phones (and I'm not) specs aren't everything. The Lake People/Violectric house sound isn't something I'll abandon to chase better specs.


 
  
 There's the HPA RS08. Kinda bummed it doesn't have balanced in since the DAC RS06 has balanced outs.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Have to be honest (tho I'm way out of my depth here): I never got the sense there's a uniformity of opinion about the value of balance inputs in HP amps (ie, to maintain a balanced signal path throughout entire system). By contrast, there seems to be much agreement that it beneficial when the amp is designed to output balance signal, for headphones can receive it--and balanced output is better than single ended. Am I misunderstanding this/missing something?
  
 Of course, you may have balanced cables you're accustomed to plugging into your headphone amp, and it would be a pain in the butt to get SE cables to accommodate a new HPA RS08. Maybe it's that, not a theoretical objection...?


----------



## novicez1

@Pharmaboy
  
 At least in my experience, balanced inputs do allow higher voltage from the DAC to send to the amp, requiring less amplifier gain, therefore decreasing possible distortion from amplification. We do get a line out in exchange for the potential balanced input but I'd prefer balanced inputs over pre-outs.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
  
 That must be a kick-ass DAC, though. I've never seen a DAC w/balanced inputs. My NOS 19 is easily the best DAC I've ever had--only 2 previous DACs to compare it with, none of them having balanced inputs.
  
 You must have a Master II or equivalent, to have balanced inputs.


----------



## novicez1

pharmaboy said:


> I've never seen a DAC w/balanced inputs. My NOS 19 is easily the best DAC I've ever had--only 2 previous DACs to compare it with, none of them having balanced inputs.


 
  
 What I meant is the amplifier having balanced inputs will benefit from the ability to accept balanced outs from a DAC, minimizing the requirement to add higher gain.


----------



## SSSN

project86 said:


> Mine isn't. I wonder if it is related to AC noise?


 

 Sorry for the late answer.
  
 Fried Reim himself admitted to me that the G103 will always be noisy with sensitive BA IEMs because of its high pregain.
  
 I personally also suspect the amp's design is at fault too. The G103 is based on a simple circuit around an opamp originally designed for small speaker amps. It works admirably well with your average studio and HiFi cans, but BA IEMs are a different thing altogether.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I'm so temped to get a G109-a. Sale price of $360 is hard to ignore. I need an amp, and I'm down to the iCan SE ($229 new), the Jotunheim ($350 used), or the G109-A ($360 new).
  
 I have a T1.1, HD800-SDR, Ether C 1.1, and TH-900 MkII
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## novicez1

G109A owner here, can't go wrong with the G109A, pairs with anything.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Anyone know what their return policy is in the USA? I can't find anything about in on their web site. I sent an question to their contact form, but just curious if anyone knows.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Two weeks to return, less shipping. Sounds good to me! G109-a ordered. Too good a deal to pass up.

Appears they only had two. I feel lucky.


----------



## Pharmaboy

allanmarcus said:


> Two weeks to return, less shipping. Sounds good to me! G109-a ordered. Too good a deal to pass up.
> 
> Appears they only had two. I feel lucky.


 
  
 Another G109A owner here. You're going to like this amp. It's very composed and balanced sounding. Doesn't exaggerate the upper midrange or treble at all (some amps, even expensive ones, push treble, but not this one). Excellent bass, also plenty of power. Slightly warm, but not nearly enough to be a coloration that could be annoying.
  
 It's a lot of amp for a very reasonable price IMO.
  
 BTW, I had enough email contact w/Violectric USA to know they're for real...customer service really matters to them.


----------



## Hypespazm

I am a G103 S owner here.. and im loving it specially since I made the switch from an Objective2 with Odac. I am now running G103-S with DragonFly 1.5 and I am loving it.. so much smoother on the ears


----------



## Allanmarcus

I got the G109-A on Black Friday and I'm already itching to upgrade  Thinking about an AURALiC TAURUS MKII. I realize this is an $1800 amp vs a $600 amp, but anyone compared these two, or similar two?


----------



## Drrizzt

I upgraded my G109 for a Schiit Mjolnir and the gap was Huuuuuuuugeeee with the Lcd-3. Really, if you have a TOTL heapphones, don't hesitate to upgrade for something something more serious like the taurus.


----------



## novicez1

@Allanmarcus

Check out the V281.


----------



## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> @Allanmarcus
> 
> Check out the V281.


 
  
 This is probably the most interesting 4 word post ever.
  
 I own and really like the G109-A. I have an Omni/Ori on the way, and will soon have headphones that can use all the power I throw at it. Which in my case means the G109-A & a Burson Soloist (the 4W, preamp-capable version).
  
 But I find myself very interested in a balanced amp, ideally one that's also a lights-out preamp. Despite the high cost (I can probably only afford a V281 used, if one ever comes up), I've become extremely interested in the V281. Reviews are amazing, and it has that orderly/competent German design thing in spades (I love that look--like an early '70's BMS in black).
  
 Back to your msg: you sold the G109 and apparently recommend the V281. Why is that? What does the V281 do that the G109 can't?
  
 I know it's balanced and more powerful, but that doesn't tell me subjectively what you gain w/the V281 vs the G109...


----------



## novicez1

@Pharmaboy

I primarily got it for the balanced output and, based on my auditions with multiple TOTL headphones with it (LCDX, Ether, HE1000, HD800/S, PS1000e), they all sounded really good.

As far as direct A/B compqrison is concerned, the unbalanced output of the V281 is a bit darker but more resolving than the G109A. Switching to balanced cancels that darker tone while retaining the resolution advantage PLUS giving you even more width, depth and separation. The cans that I used for the direct comparison are the HD600 and HD800S.

If you can't afford the V281, there's the V280 which is essentially a stripped down V281 with some minor diffetences and the Lake People RS08. I can not comment on how they sound as I have yet to audition them personally.

P.S. I forgot to mention that the bass slam on the balanced V281 hits fast and hard. Makes the LCDX sound like it's chugging nitrous oxide.


----------



## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> @Pharmaboy
> 
> I primarily got it for the balanced output and, based on my auditions with multiple TOTL headphones with it (LCDX, Ether, HE1000, HD800/S, PS1000e), they all sounded really good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really appreciate your reply. This helps me get my mind around the whole balanced vs SE thing in the Violectric realm (which is a very good place IMO).


----------



## Sam21

G109 specs better that the V281 ... but V281 has more juice....I think G109 has adequate juice for almost all headphones in the market though...
  
 V281 costs more simply because it has more features....


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Pharmaboy

socks mk2 said:


> Even my recent swap from a fully balanced V181 to a fully balanced V280 was indeed an upgrade. Balanced in/unbalanced out V100 to fully balanced V181 was an upgrade as well. I imagine that a fully unbalanced G109 to fully balanced V280 would be quite the considerable leap.


 
  
 Both the V181 (if a used one pops up) and V280 are high on my "watch" list. Neither can be a pre-amp, but both are said to sound very good in the Violectric manner, and the V280 being equal to 4 X V200s is pretty awesome (nobody manages to dislike the V200...)
  
 I have a uniquely flexible desktop set-up that makes the preamp vs no preamp capability less than urgent (thought if I spend serouis $$ to get balanced capability, it would be ideal to also have preamp capability w/same unit):
  
 -- I had my Audio GD NOS 19 DAC (an amazing DAC BTW) configured with 2 RCA output pairs
 -- 1 pair feeds my beloved Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 headphone amp/pre-amp, which outputs volume pot-mediated signal to my powered speakers + subwoofer
 -- The 2nd pair feeds my G109-A, or depending on mood, Burson Soloist, either used purely for headphones & having its own volume pot
  
 I can listen to the same music on speakers (NOS 19 output #1) that I'm hearing via headphones plugged into the G109A or Soloist (NOS 19 output #2), with independent volume control on both sides.
  
 So I could just drop in a V181 or V280 in place of the G109-A and/or Soloist, and have a very fine balanced HP amp for planars.
  
 The M-Stage HPA-1 also is a headphone amp, one I really like. It's not on the same level as the other, technically or sonically, but is still a very capable, pleasant-sounding unit.


----------



## novicez1

@Sam21

That's what I initially thought as well.... until I auditioned them personally.

There's a Russian website that has the V281 balanced and unbalanced measurements. It's pretty interesting that the unbalanced outs has better numbers yet the balanced out is still superior.


----------



## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> @Sam21
> 
> That's what I initially thought as well.... until I auditioned them personally.
> 
> There's a Russian website that has the V281 balanced and unbalanced measurements. It's pretty interesting that the unbalanced outs has better numbers yet the balanced out is still superior.


 
  
 I'm starting to realize that when it comes to headphone amp power vs sound, numbers are not as meaningful as one might assume. In other words, you might think there was a linear relationship between increasing power & increasing sound quality. But over and over again, I see comments that this is not true.
  
 2 examples:
  
 -- One of the most affordable & highest regarded balanced HP amps is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. It isn't even a "true" balanced design (a phase splitter accomplishes the balanced output vs SE), and its rated power output in either SE or balanced outputs are very decent, but no better than the Lake People G109-A's. Yet reviewer after reviewer comments on the wonderful sound coming out of this box--also the noteworthy way it drives power hungry headphones like ZMF planars, and finicky/demanding 'phones like the 800D.
  
 -- I own a Burson Soloist amp/preamp, which has a top power output at 4W. In a communication w/Burson over swapping out the stepped volume pot, they surprised me by offering to trade in the Soloist for their most recent amp/pre-amp design, the Conductor V2--which has a top output of 8W (insanely powerful). This propelled me into research of the CV2, which I never even considered before. And what I found, once again, is comment after comment that the extra power had relatively little effect on sound or ability to drive demanding headphones, as compared to the Soloist. Mostly, what people talk about is subtle sonic differences between these 2 power amps, NOT big power differences.
  
 Similarly, when people characterize SE vs balanced sound for any given HP amp, usually what they talk about is subtle sonic differences--often a very slight diminuation of raw bass power, but w/gains in bass quality, and particularly in soundstaging, balanced vs SE.
  
 What I'm concluding is it's probably better to select an amp/family of amps based on the sound it's known for (ie, Violetric anything; Cavalli anything)...then start parsing the SE vs balanced capabilities/differences of certain models.
  
 Of course, this all presumes you have a pair of really high quality headphones that will "reveal all."


----------



## Allanmarcus

pharmaboy said:


> novicez1 said:
> 
> 
> > @Sam21
> ...


 

 The Liquid Carbon is a truly balanced when using the the balanced output.


----------



## Pharmaboy

allanmarcus said:


> The Liquid Carbon is a truly balanced when using the the balanced output.


 
  
 It has balanced inputs & output, so it's "fully balanced." What I meant by "not true balanced" is that it uses the same # of output devices for both SE & balanced outpus, vs using double the # of output devices for balanced vs SE.
  
 From the Cavalli website:
  
 "It’s fully-balanced as well, on both its inputs and outputs.  In fact, whether your DAC has balanced output or not - and chances are that it doesn’t -_* the Liquid Carbon accounts for that with phase splitters on its single-ended inputs, so that it can “generate” balanced input signals*_."
  
 Am I misunderstanding this? I've done a lot of reading on SE vs balanced lately, and my understanding was that some designs use phase splitters to convert SE output to balanced; vs other designs that literally have double the # of output devices working for balanced vs SE output.


----------



## Allanmarcus

pharmaboy said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > The Liquid Carbon is a truly balanced when using the the balanced output.
> ...


 
 You are.
  
 When using balanced inputs and balanced outputs the LC is fully balanced all the way through. When using RCA inputs, the LC converts the SE input to balanced with the phase splitter, then treats it as balanced throughout.


----------



## Pharmaboy

allanmarcus said:


> You are.
> 
> When using balanced inputs and balanced outputs the LC is fully balanced all the way through. When using RCA inputs, the LC converts the SE input to balanced with the phase splitter, then treats it as balanced throughout.


 
  
 I'm confused--trying to catch up w/this balanced vs SE stuff & not making much headway... Can I trouble you w/a couple questions based on this post:
  
 1 - If inputs are RCA, not XLR), and output used is 1/4", not XLR--is the phase splitter involved? In other words, is the output voltage/watts of SE-to-SE operation less than that obtained from balanced in/out operation?
  
 2 - If I owned this unit (and I'd love to), I have the choice of connecting RCA cables to the inputs (the DACs I could use w/it are SE output only); or I could use RCA-to-3pin XLR adapters (R & L) to connect those RCAs to balanced inputs., then connect balanced headphones to the XLR-out.
       -- in that case, am I getting full balanced output signal at the headphones, or just a SE subset?
  
 These questions would apply to any balanced HP amp I get, so I'm really interested in the answers. I've been assuming I could get balanced signal to my (on order) ZMF Omni/Ori, but now I'm not so sure....?


----------



## Allanmarcus

pharmaboy said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > You are.
> ...


 

 No problem. First, don't be too concerned about "fully balanced". It's one of the audiophile things that only the most truly ardent supporters of objective listening claim they can hear a difference. 
  
 1) yes, the phase splitter is involved. Output is the same no matter which input you use. Balanced output is much higher on the balanced output. If you use SE in and balanced out, you are getter all the features of a balanced amplifier.
  
 2) use RCA.
  
 I highly recommend you take this conversation to the Liquid Carbon thread. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions
  
 Also, this topic has been beat to death in that thread, so lots to read there.


----------



## Hypespazm

Hey guys Ive had this amp for a few months now.. and recently made the purchase of the VIOLECTRIC HPA V200, Im starting to think that there is no sonic difference...can anyone help me out here maybe im doing something wrong.
  
  
 maybe its my dac I have a dragon fly 1.5


----------



## Allanmarcus

hypespazm said:


> Hey guys Ive had this amp for a few months now.. and recently made the purchase of the VIOLECTRIC HPA V200, Im starting to think that there is no sonic difference...can anyone help me out here maybe im doing something wrong.
> 
> 
> maybe its my dac I have a dragon fly 1.5




You have to pretend there is a difference, then you can justify your purchase. You can also justify it by buying a more expensive DAC and headphones.


----------



## Hypespazm

Im saying has anyone else noticed a difference between these? the price difference is pretty big


----------



## Pharmaboy

hypespazm said:


> Hey guys Ive had this amp for a few months now.. and recently made the purchase of the VIOLECTRIC HPA V200, Im starting to think that there is no sonic difference...can anyone help me out here maybe im doing something wrong.
> 
> 
> maybe its my dac I have a dragon fly 1.5


 
  
 Are you referring to the Lake People G103? And that sounds similar to V200?
  
 If so, lack of noteworthy sonic differences shouldn't be that surprising--same mfr, though more transisters & output from V200 than G103.
  
 Not sure what headphones you're using, but if they're relatively low impedance/efficient headphones, they're less likely to reveal amp differences than higher impedance or less efficient headphones that "push" 1 or both of the amps.
  
 While your DAC isn't what some consider "endgame"--if you use it to compare 2 different amps it should be just fine, unless its output voltage is too low or too high for either amp, which probably isn't a factor here.


----------



## Hypespazm

pharmaboy said:


> Are you referring to the Lake People G103? And that sounds similar to V200?
> 
> If so, lack of noteworthy sonic differences shouldn't be that surprising--same mfr, though more transisters & output from V200 than G103.
> 
> ...


 
 I have HD558's HD600's Vmoda M100's and Philips SHP9500's on the ones I noticed the biggest difference was on the HD600's as they OPENED UP once i had that extra power... and did not distort what so ever... So what Im thinking is that maybe I need higher end headphones to actually see the advantage of having such headphone


----------



## Pharmaboy

hypespazm said:


> I have HD558's HD600's Vmoda M100's and Philips SHP9500's on the ones I noticed the biggest difference was on the HD600's as they OPENED UP once i had that extra power... and did not distort what so ever... So what Im thinking is that maybe I need higher end headphones to actually see the advantage of having such headphone


 
  
 That makes total sense. The HD600's (which I've never heard) are frequently described as taking quite a bit of power & "scaling up"/changing in sound when they do.
  
 I'm about to find out this stuff for myself. Have my 1st planar on order (ZMF Omni/Ori, arriving soon). And about to buy a used Audio GD SA-31SE, an extremely powerful SE amp (10W at 40 ohms). Getting it not just because of power for the reputedly power-hungry Ori, but even more because people say great things about its sound.
  
 Anyway, I suspect the SA-31SE + Ori will prove what we're talking about here. The Ori will be my 1st headphone that can really "scale up" with increasing power...


----------



## Hypespazm

pharmaboy said:


> That makes total sense. The HD600's (which I've never heard) are frequently described as taking quite a bit of power & "scaling up"/changing in sound when they do.
> 
> I'm about to find out this stuff for myself. Have my 1st planar on order (ZMF Omni/Ori, arriving soon). And about to buy a used Audio GD SA-31SE, an extremely powerful SE amp (10W at 40 ohms). Getting it not just because of power for the reputedly power-hungry Ori, but even more because people say great things about its sound.
> 
> Anyway, I suspect the SA-31SE + Ori will prove what we're talking about here. The Ori will be my 1st headphone that can really "scale up" with increasing power...


 
  
 so you say the main reason i realized a difference in them is because of headphone scalability. I think i might need higher end headphones to take advantage of the v200 then. It might be out of my league


----------



## Pharmaboy

hypespazm said:


> so you say the main reason i realized a difference in them is because of headphone scalability. I think i might need higher end headphones to take advantage of the v200 then. It might be out of my league


 
  
 I guess that's one way to look at it. But if you already own the V200...IMO you're in its league by default.
  
 If you still own the G103, what this really means is probably that you should consider selling it--because you own its more powerful/capable "older brother," the V200. Anything the G103 can do, V200 probably can do somewhat better.
  
 Note(s) of caution: I don't own the G103 or v200, so I'm conjecturing here. Also, for all I know, you haven't compared your current headphones on either/both amps using music that realy taxes amps & reveals differences. Examples would be extreme bass-containing music like EDM or reggae; large-scale classical pieces, Tchaikovsky's 1812 overature--things of that type.


----------



## Hypespazm

pharmaboy said:


> I guess that's one way to look at it. But if you already own the V200...IMO you're in its league by default.
> 
> If you still own the G103, what this really means is probably that you should consider selling it--because you own its more powerful/capable "older brother," the V200. Anything the G103 can do, V200 probably can do somewhat better.
> 
> Note(s) of caution: I don't own the G103 or v200, so I'm conjecturing here. Also, for all I know, you haven't compared your current headphones on either/both amps using music that realy taxes amps & reveals differences. Examples would be extreme bass-containing music like EDM or reggae; large-scale classical pieces, Tchaikovsky's 1812 overature--things of that type.


 
 actually I did some of the hip hop... and vocals that I usually due.. but what would be some music you would consider Detailed expansive and all of the rest.. that I can use on specifically the HD600's


----------



## Guerny

http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones/8895#post_12128643
  
 Quote:


guerny said:


> I went from amping the dogs using a G103 (1130 mW) to using a V200 (2700 mW), the sound totally improved, the low end in particular.
> 
> From the G103 i was originally a little underwhelmed with the bass impact, not so with the V200.
> 
> ...


----------



## davidespinosa

@Hypespazm Do you have the G103 or G109 ?
  
 And you're saying you DID notice a difference with the HD600's.
 So you answered your own question !


----------



## Hypespazm

I mean I wonder what others opinions are who have upgraded from these amps


----------



## Pharmaboy

hypespazm said:


> actually I did some of the hip hop... and vocals that I usually due.. but what would be some music you would consider Detailed expansive and all of the rest.. that I can use on specifically the HD600's


----------



## novicez1

Honestly, coming from G109A and now with the V281.... The G109A is close to the V281 using the unbalanced outputs, the V281 is still technically more nuanced and superior, but for the price and if you have no intentions of using XLR balanced outs, the G109A is a very hard to beat headphone amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> Honestly, coming from G109A and now with the V281.... The G109A is close to the V281 using the unbalanced outputs, the V281 is still technically more nuanced and superior, but for the price and if you have no intentions of using XLR balanced outs, the G109A is a very hard to beat headphone amp.


 
  
 Wow, this is interesting to read. I have the G109-A and totally agree that it's hard to beat. Everything about is so competent & composed. Every headphone I've used with it sounds very solid, better than any of my other HP amps. No favoring of this frequency range or that--just straight-ahead sonic goodness (w/a tiny hint of warmth).
  
 I've been jonesing for a V281 lately because I have a planar coming in 1-2 weeks. It will be the 1st headphone of mine that can really handle lots of power; also can connect balanced. But I didn't expect to read that the G109-A is close to  the V281 in SE mode.
  
 That's quite a tribute to Lake People/Violectric. IMO they design "to the house sound signature," not just to a price point.


----------



## JediMa70

Hi because i'm considering to buy an amp to replace my O2 (i'm tired to recharge it..) I was considering to buy the G103 s (budget reasons) 
 I would use it with my headphones : AKG K 702 - Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 oHm, Sennheiser HD 600
Plus I can easily get it in italy where  I live.
But the big question ,is it good enough? 
2nd I keep reading that It got 2 settings : hi - lo but I really cant see any switch on the amp
  
Can you help me please?


----------



## Tuneslover

jedima70 said:


> Hi because i'm considering to buy an amp to replace my O2 (i'm tired to recharge it..) I was considering to buy the G103 s (budget reasons)
> I would use it with my headphones [COLOR=222222]: AKG K 702 - Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 oHm, Sennheiser HD 600[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222]Plus I can easily get it in italy where  I live.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222]But the big question ,is it good enough? [/COLOR]
> ...



I have the G109S and you have to open it up to select the desired gain. That may sound daunting but it really isn't, in fact it's kind of fun. I've tried all 3 settings several times but decided the default setting to be the best. In other words don't even both with the gain settings.


----------



## JediMa70

tuneslover said:


> I have the G109S and you have to open it up to select the desired gain. That may sound daunting but it really isn't, in fact it's kind of fun. I've tried all 3 settings several times but decided the default setting to be the best. In other words don't even both with the gain settings.


 
 Oh ok ty I didn't know , so it's a jumper to move.. yeah it's pretty cool I agree, now stands the question bout g103s performance


----------



## Pharmaboy

jedima70 said:


> Hi because i'm considering to buy an amp to replace my O2 (i'm tired to recharge it..) I was considering to buy the G103 s (budget reasons)
> I would use it with my headphones : AKG K 702 - Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 oHm, Sennheiser HD 600
> Plus I can easily get it in italy where  I live.
> But the big question ,is it good enough?
> ...


 
  
 If you're interested in the G103S, then your budget is ~$290 USD / 275 euros. I haven't heard to the G103S, but I own (and really like) the G109-A, the now discontinued "Anniversary" edition of the G109-S (same power & basic design, but w/soft-start relay and a couple other tweaks that are welcome improvements).
  
 Here's a review that compares both basic models. I always found this particular review educational re the benefit of stepping up from bottom model to next up:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers#RUhd4EV5L6w2Vsv8.97
  
 Back to your real question: is the G103S good enough? (ie, sufficient for you; for your headphones, etc). The only person who could answer that is you, after hearing it. But just based on specs, I think the answer is yes. The G103S almost certainly has the power to drive the headphones you list.
  
 The question then becomes: does it have the power to drive those headphones *very well, getting the most out of their particular designs?* And the answer to that is probably, "Not quite." Particularly the HD600 is said to be, not exactly difficult to drive--but difficult to pair up w/a given amp for maximum sonic benefits. It's a high resolution headphone and different amps can bring out different things from it.
  
 In my experience, amps are a little bit like cars: you can do well buying the cheapest, lowest power car (especially if it's well made & designed); but taking that car through the Alps might be a humbling experience...usually you benefit from having some "power in reserve." This quality of power in reserve proves extremely useful in headphone amps.
  
 My guess is you would be happier w/the G109-S, based on my experience of the model: it sounds good on every headphone I've ever used with it. Other amps (far more powerful, more features) may sound subtly better in certain ways (particularly soundstaging and note separation), but literally ever sounds bad or even "just average" on the G109. And I'm including a power-hungry, high resolution planar, the ZMF Ori (it sounds terrific on the G109-A).
  
 However, the retail cost of the G109 is probably over your budget (~$450 USD, after 15% winter discount). So my advice is to look for a used G109-S, which is probably easier to find used in Italy than it is here. It would probably be the equivalent of ~$350-$400 USD.


----------



## JediMa70

pharmaboy said:


> If you're interested in the G103S, then your budget is ~$290 USD / 275 euros. I haven't heard to the G103S, but I own (and really like) the G109-A, the now discontinued "Anniversary" edition of the G109-S (same power & basic design, but w/soft-start relay and a couple other tweaks that are welcome improvements).
> 
> Here's a review that compares both basic models. I always found this particular review educational re the benefit of stepping up from bottom model to next up:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers#RUhd4EV5L6w2Vsv8.97
> ...


 
 Wow thanks alot, you exactly got what I needed to know, infact the real question that you wrote in bold, was exactly what i was meaning


----------



## Wesbound

The g109-s retail price in Italy is 399 euros,i'm thinking To get me one for my DT1990


----------



## JediMa70

wesbound said:


> The g109-s retail price in Italy is 399 euros,i'm thinking To get me one for my DT1990


 
 Correct that's the price.. and sadly is too much for me


----------



## Pharmaboy

wesbound said:


> The g109-s retail price in Italy is 399 euros,i'm thinking To get me one for my DT1990


 
  
 That's a very good price, assuming it's a reputable seller & the Lake People warranty is part of the deal.
  
 If you get the G109-S, I think you'll be impressed.
  
 I like mine so much that I'm obsessing over a big Violectric upgrade--to either the V220 or V281. Crazy money, but I'll be they're amazing.


----------



## davidespinosa

jedima70 said:


> Correct that's the price.. and sadly is too much for me


 
  
 You can save up!  It's a good amp.  There's also the G100 FE, which may be less expensive, if you can find one:
  
http://www.violectric.de/produktdetails/G100_FE-e.html


----------



## JediMa70

davidespinosa said:


> You can save up!  It's a good amp.  There's also the G100 FE, which may be less expensive, if you can find one:
> 
> http://www.violectric.de/produktdetails/G100_FE-e.html


 
 oh ty!


----------



## lehrer1991

has anyone used a pair of of sennheiser hd600s on the G103-S?


----------



## DamageInc77

Got the G109-P for my Fostex TH-900 and it's a pretty sweet combo. Most impressed about the absence of noise. Just inky blackness.


----------



## Pharmaboy

"Inky blackness" is very well-put. I'm always surprised how the my G109-A manages to sound good without having a particular sound signature of its own (if it has one, it's very subtle). I have other amps, several extremely good in their own ways...but when I need to hear "the truth" of a new headphone, DAC, etc--I turn to the Lake People. It's truthful, revealing yet not in the least aggressive or highlighting particular frequencies.

Right now I'm burning in a new DAC (Audio GD DAC-19) on a separate computer. I'm using the G109-A to monitor its burn-in progress (it already sounds very good). The point is if it sounds good on G109-A, it will probably sound spectacular on the other amps.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Can anyone explain this sentence in website description of G105:

G105 is equipped with two headphones outputs with 1/4" jacks which may be optimized for mono signals with a split-switch.

Is this balanced output?

If not, do any other Lake People amps have balanced output? I know several Violectric amps do, but $$$


----------



## bluenight (Jun 29, 2017)

I have the rs 02 se amp and want suggestions on dacs to pair with hd 650. Right now i am using an basic one $20 FiiO Taishan D03K. I have read that the rs 02 sounds similar to the g109s.

Is it true that this amp and g109 is able to conway all skills the dac have, so it will sound dull on a lesser dac and really great on a great dac? I can feel its a little thin sounding and dull at sometimes the rs 02, clean and detailed though.


----------



## bluenight (Jun 29, 2017)

LCMusicLover said:


> If not, do any other Lake People amps have balanced output? I know several Violectric amps do, but $$$


Rs08 have balanced output http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/HA_RS_08-E.html


----------



## DamageInc77

bluenight said:


> I have the rs 02 se amp and want suggestions on dacs to pair with hd 650. Right now i am using an basic one $20 FiiO Taishan D03K. I have read that the rs 02 sounds similar to the g109s.
> 
> Is it true that this amp and g109 is able to conway all skills the dac have, so it will sound dull on a lesser dac and really great on a great dac? I can feel its a little thin sounding and dull at sometimes the rs 02, clean and detailed though.



I had both the G109-P and now the RS 02 with the Modi Multibit and it's a great combo. I think there is a used Multibit for sale on the forum too.


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> Can anyone explain this sentence in website description of G105:
> 
> G105 is equipped with two headphones outputs with 1/4" jacks which may be optimized for mono signals with a split-switch.
> 
> ...



I own the G109-A (= G109-S). The G105 is EU only, apparently not sold in the U.S. I tried to download a manual, but was unable to. The manual will probably answer your question.

But just looking the specs for the unit on L.P. website--it's 99% sure this amp is single-ended only, not balanced. For one thing, there is no 4-pin XLR headphone output--the classic "balanced amp" option. For another, the power specs do not distinguish between power output single-ended vs balanced, as all the specs for balanced amps do.

Re "...may be optimized for mono signals with a split-switch," I can't figure that one out. All I can think of is this: if you had an RCA output coming from a mono device (not sure what that would be), it could be connected to the RCA inputs of the G105 using a 1-to-2 splitter (ie, split single RCA input to L + R RCA inputs). That's my best guess, and it's probably wrong.


----------



## Pharmaboy

bluenight said:


> I have the rs 02 se amp and want suggestions on dacs to pair with hd 650. Right now i am using an basic one $20 FiiO Taishan D03K. I have read that the rs 02 sounds similar to the g109s.
> 
> Is it true that this amp and g109 is able to conway all skills the dac have, so it will sound dull on a lesser dac and really great on a great dac? I can feel its a little thin sounding and dull at sometimes the rs 02, clean and detailed though.



I haven't heard the RS 02, but I have (and really love) the G109-A (almost identical to G109-S, single-ended G109). And I can tell you from personal experience that the G109 will fully convey any added technical qualities of good DACs vs cheap ones.

My 2nd DAC in desktop system (and the first one I heard via headphones through the G109) was an inexpensive but pretty good-sounding DS design, the Peachtree Audio DAC iTx. When I upgraded to the Audio GD NOS 19, I heard great improvements in pretty every measure of sound, courtesy of the G109-A (it showed me everything this new, resistor ladder, non-oversampling DAC could do vs the other DAC). 

You apparently have a lot of "upside" to gain from upgrading to any competent DAC. Cost is only one factor (expensive doesn't necessarily = "sounds good"). Cheap DACs usually do sound thin (harmonically thin, so that a violin doesn't sound as rich as it does in real life) and also dull (transients from things like drum kits are sharp, but not subtle or differentiated). 

If you get any competent, mid-range DAC that people say good things about in user comments, I'll be you hear a big difference.


----------



## LCMusicLover

bluenight said:


> Rs08 have balanced output http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/HA_RS_08-E.html



But not balanced in.

It's weird.  They've got amps with balance out, but not balanced in, and amps with balanced in, but not balanced out.


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> But not balanced in.
> 
> It's weird.  They've got amps with balance out, but not balanced in, and amps with balanced in, but not balanced out.



Not so weird. Balanced inputs are often there as convenience feature, allowing the amp to be used in balanced systems. Some people have balanced wiring throughout their gear (for example, anyone using an audio interface, patching in instruments or control panels, etc), ahd having those balanced inputs means they can simply connect to the amp using their balanced wiring. However, the headphone output is a different story: not everyone has balanced-capable headphones. 

The other thing about balanced outputs is the amp typically has some electronics dedicated to making the balanced output happen (ie, redundant amp channels, phase splitter, etc), so balanced-output amps often cost more than S.E...the designs are different.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> Not so weird. Balanced inputs are often there as convenience feature, allowing the amp to be used in balanced systems. Some people have balanced wiring throughout their gear (for example, anyone using an audio interface, patching in instruments or control panels, etc), ahd having those balanced inputs means they can simply connect to the amp using their balanced wiring. However, the headphone output is a different story: not everyone has balanced-capable headphones.
> 
> The other thing about balanced outputs is the amp typically has some electronics dedicated to making the balanced output happen (ie, redundant amp channels, phase splitter, etc), so balanced-output amps often cost more than S.E...the designs are different.



Oh, I get balanced in, but SE out.  It's the balanced out, but SE in that surprises me.  Makes me think of all the 'not fully balanced' statements one sees in discussions of various pieces of hardware.


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> Oh, I get balanced in, but SE out.  It's the balanced out, but SE in that surprises me.  Makes me think of all the 'not fully balanced' statements one sees in discussions of various pieces of hardware.



We're on the brink of one of the more contentious topics in all of Head-Fi.org, right up there with "why pay $$ for audiophile interconnects when I can get a $15 wire from Home Depot?" On topics like these, everybody has an opinion, and few can agree.

I fall into the S.E. input/balanced output camp not because of my theoretical beliefs (ie, that it's somehow better than "true" balanced in/balanced out), but for convenience. I have no source gear (such as a DAC) w/balanced outputs, so couldn't run balanced cable to the inputs of a headphone amp even if I wanted to. 

On the other hand, I've read numerous reviews + user comments for this or that headphone amp--including the 2 balanced output models I own, the Liquid Carbon & the Violectric V281--to the effect that even w/S.E. inputs, these amps provide a different, and in some ways, better sound via balanced output. I have verified that to my satisfaction on a ZMF Ori (which I own) and a ZMF Eikon (which a friend owns).

So yes, my system is not "fully balanced"--but there is still a noticeable benefit to balanced outs in this system.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> We're on the brink of one of the more contentious topics in all of Head-Fi.org, right up there with "why pay $$ for audiophile interconnects when I can get a $15 wire from Home Depot?" On topics like these, everybody has an opinion, and few can agree.



More contentious than 'burn-in'? 



> I fall into the S.E. input/balanced output camp not because of my theoretical beliefs (ie, that it's somehow better than "true" balanced in/balanced out), but for convenience. I have no source gear (such as a DAC) w/balanced outputs, so couldn't run balanced cable to the inputs of a headphone amp even if I wanted to.
> 
> On the other hand, I've read numerous reviews + user comments for this or that headphone amp--including the 2 balanced output models I own, the Liquid Carbon & the Violectric V281--to the effect that even w/S.E. inputs, these amps provide a different, and in some ways, better sound via balanced output. I have verified that to my satisfaction on a ZMF Ori (which I own) and a ZMF Eikon (which a friend owns).
> 
> So yes, my system is not "fully balanced"--but there is still a noticeable benefit to balanced outs in this system.



I just received an OPPO Sonica DAC with balanced output, and I'm looking for a balanced amp.  I've got a Fireye HDB, but it's more for my portable rig than for home use, although it's standing in for now.  It would make me crazy to take the SE output of my DAC into SE input of an amp which then outputs balanced.  Also, my experience with several DAPs is that my ears hear a more spacious presentation via balanced out (Cowon P2, Fiio X5iii, Opus 1, Onkyo dp-x1) -- some more than other of course.

Violectric 181/280/281 seem like really good choices for me, but $$$ (although a well priced used 181 is the leading candidate if it shows up).

I need low output impedance, and low gain, so lots of very good amps are disqualified.  Mjolnir 2 is probably the closest I can find to matching my needs, but too new to be on the used market at this point, and out of my price range new. Jot meets the technical requirements, but sound sig is a mis-match with the already bright Sonica. Matrix m-Stage HPA-3b is a contender.


----------



## bluenight (Jun 30, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> I haven't heard the RS 02, but I have (and really love) the G109-A (almost identical to G109-S, single-ended G109). And I can tell you from personal experience that the G109 will fully convey any added technical qualities of good DACs vs cheap ones.
> 
> My 2nd DAC in desktop system (and the first one I heard via headphones through the G109) was an inexpensive but pretty good-sounding DS design, the Peachtree Audio DAC iTx. When I upgraded to the Audio GD NOS 19, I heard great improvements in pretty every measure of sound, courtesy of the G109-A (it showed me everything this new, resistor ladder, non-oversampling DAC could do vs the other DAC).
> 
> ...


Nice to hear.

A bit more sub bass warmth, soundstage, dynamic and attack would be welcome imo can sound a bit flat at times with this basic dac. It dident sound flat on my x-can v3 though, i guess it is the x-can that added the warmth and bass. And rs 02 doesent add anything so it needs a good dac i think.


----------



## bluenight

DamageInc77 said:


> I had both the G109-P and now the RS 02 with the Modi Multibit and it's a great combo. I think there is a used Multibit for sale on the forum too.


At least one other maybe two before you liked that combo on head fi. Bassy and warm dac right?


----------



## DamageInc77

bluenight said:


> At least one other maybe two before you liked that combo on head fi. Bassy and warm dac right?


I used to have the Fiio Taishan D03K and the Modi Multibit did seem to bring in a much fuller sound to the mix.


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> More contentious than 'burn-in'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funny you mention burn-in (yes, that's the eye of yet another Head-Fi storm)...I'm a big fan of burn-in, as it has made real sonic differences in 2 Audio GD DACs, several headphones, and new powered monitors. I do it as a matter of course.

I think the V181 is one of the true balanced amp bargains. If you can score one used for $400-$500, you get a Violectric design, typically built like a freight train, that's said to sound very good.
And I know the Liquid Carbon is a fine sounding balanced amp (I have a new one from 3rd offering that's 2-3 months old). Not everyone appreciates its slightly warm, "friendly" sound, but I certainly like it...also like the pillowy soundstaging & very good bass Pretty sure both have balanced inputs. Problem w/LC is finding a used one that costs even 15% less than retail. People won't let go of them easily.

Both V181 and LC have low impedance output and a low gain setting that's probably OK for you 

"more spacious presentation via balanced out" yep, that's what I hear, and I don't even have balanced inputs to the LC or V281 (leaving aside the Audio GD SA-31SE in this context, since its balanced output is basically consmetic--a convenience fixture--and sounds identical to SE out, at least to me).


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> ...And I know the Liquid Carbon is a fine sounding balanced amp (I have a new one from 3rd offering that's 2-3 months old). Not everyone appreciates its slightly warm, "friendly" sound, but I certainly like it...also like the pillowy soundstaging & very good bass Pretty sure both have balanced inputs. Problem w/LC is finding a used one that costs even 15% less than retail. People won't let go of them easily.
> 
> Both V181 and LC have low impedance output and a low gain setting that's probably OK for you...



Yes, LC is the other one I've been looking for.  Warmth won't bother me since the Sonica is bright (Sabre DAC).  I'm not sure what 'pillowy' soundstaging is.  I get the impression of soft, imprecise, mushy. 

You're also correct about scarcity -- both LC and 181 are hard to find used.  Both do have balanced in and out.

You mention 'third offering" -- I had only heard of V1 and V2.  Was the third offering just a continuation of V2?

Can you share the front end of your LC serial # (i.e. 04xx, 09xx ...)?

Thanks for advice.


----------



## bluenight

DamageInc77 said:


> I used to have the Fiio Taishan D03K and the Modi Multibit did seem to bring in a much fuller sound to the mix.


Very nice to know


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, LC is the other one I've been looking for.  Warmth won't bother me since the Sonica is bright (Sabre DAC).  I'm not sure what 'pillowy' soundstaging is.  I get the impression of soft, imprecise, mushy.
> 
> You're also correct about scarcity -- both LC and 181 are hard to find used.  Both do have balanced in and out.
> 
> ...



"Pillowy" soundstaging means a lot to me--because I've heard the soundstaging of the V281 (I've compared the 2 in depth), and that adjective helps contrast their respective sounds:

Both amps have soundstaging that is the best I've ever heard through headphones, albeit somewhat different.
The V281 has an extremely wide & fairly deep soundstage. Placement of different instruments & voices is very precise: the drums are over _here_; the saxophone is over _there_. The soundstaging is overt, dramatic, with lots of air between instruments, etc.When an unexpected instrument or voice suddenly appears in its distinct place, you almost jump. Like everything else this amp does, soundstaging is very well done, assertive, borderline attention-getting. Combine that with the best bass I've ever heard from any component; the best dynamics I've ever heard; and the fact that all the frequencies are there, but without hot-spotting, dips, or brightness--and you have the uber-competent sound of the V281, which sounds pretty much like it looks (big, powerful, and controlled).
The Liquid Carbon also has a relatively wide & fairly deep soundstage, though not quite as dramatic as the V281's. It's expansive, but the placement isn't quite so overt; the outlines of each instrument or voice are a little less bold, but you still have zero trouble sensing where each is located in the soundstage. Compared to the V281, the soundstaging of the LC sounds a little softer--present but not calling attention (ie, pillowy). While the LC's bass is extremely good, deep & impactful, the whole frequency range is a little less authoritative than the V281's. It's all there, but softer/gentler. Put all that together with the subtle warmth (not exactly like tubes, but also not quite like most SS), and you have a very beguiling sound that still can sound powerful and controlled when it needs to.
BTW, both amps have more than enough juice for my power-hungry ZMF Ori. The V281 has ~2X the total output power of the LC, but I use both in the lowest gain setting & can't even get it to 50% volume w/o risking deafness.
I said "third offering" because Cavalli has 3 "runs" (sales cycles) of the LC. V1 was the first run; V2 was the second run; and you're right, V2 just carried forward into the third sales cycle of this amp. From what I'm told, there's zero difference between the V2s sold in the 2nd run vs 3rd and final run.

Not sure what you mean by "front end" of the LC serial number. The true number on the nameplate (beyond an alphanumeric code that means nothing to me) is the S.N.: 00781.

Final point about warmth: I've heard "classic tube circuits" in various amps & preamps (though not in HP amps), and know well the version of "warm" tubes can bring: reduced extension in bass & upper-most treble; a warm, 3-dimensional sound to most instruments, as if they are playing all around your head in a very well designed acoustic space. Zero brightness, decent but not great dynamics, etc. In some classic tube designs, changing tubes can accentuate these qualities to the point that you're swimming in a warm hot-tub of sound (ie, it can get a bit much).

The warmth of the LC is very different: for one thing, it's consistent from top to bottom, rather subtle, and is not accompanied by reduced frequency range extension. It's a flavoring, and to my ears, not even close to overdone. I have yet to find a genre of music that sounds "bad" on the LC.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Seeing the reference to a multibit DAC in one of the above posts, I also have to qualify the system in which I compared the V281 and LC:

Last August I purchased the Audio GD NOS 19 DAC--it's not only a multi-bit/R2 R design, but is non-oversampling. After a lengthy burn-in, the NOS 19 transformed my desktop system. It's easily the best digital sound I've ever heard: slightly warm, organic/natural tone to every instrument (violins sound like the real thing), plus a somewhat "wet" bass (ie, full, impactful, not dry or 2-dimensional as most digital bass sounded to me pre-NOS 19). All  the frequencies are there, but sound relaxed, non-aggressive.

A couple months ago I purchased one of the last Audio GD DAC-19s, which is the oversampling-capable version of the NOS 19. It, too, sounds full, natural, non-digital (though subtly different from the NOS 19).
Some consider these DACs to be "warm," but all I hear is a more natural, relaxed version of digital, not a soupy/tubey sound. Hard to explain.

Anyway, when a "warm" component like the LC is fed signal from one of these DACs, and a "warm" headphone like the ZMF Ori is plugged into the LC, you might think, "That must sound like sonic fog...it's 3X warmness." Well, reality is more complex & surprising. The whole system sounds sublime to me.

This may be the most surprising thing about the LC--it sounds really good driving "warm" headphones. I finally got around to plugging the single-ended Fidelio X2s into the LC last month, and was totally surprised by the result--the best I've ever heard the X2's sound (the other "best" amp for the X2s is the Lake People G109-A, which has its own very subtle warmth).

The LC is a really slick little box...


----------



## cubed4life

Pharmaboy, how would you compare G109A to V281?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> "Pillowy" soundstaging means a lot to me--because I've heard the soundstaging of the V281 (I've compared the 2 in depth), and that adjective helps contrast their respective sounds:
> 
> Both amps have soundstaging that is the best I've ever heard through headphones, albeit somewhat different.
> The V281 has an extremely wide & fairly deep soundstage. Placement of different instruments & voices is very precise: the drums are over _here_; the saxophone is over _there_. The soundstaging is overt, dramatic, with lots of air between instruments, etc.When an unexpected instrument or voice suddenly appears in its distinct place, you almost jump. Like everything else this amp does, soundstaging is very well done, assertive, borderline attention-getting. Combine that with the best bass I've ever heard from any component; the best dynamics I've ever heard; and the fact that all the frequencies are there, but without hot-spotting, dips, or brightness--and you have the uber-competent sound of the V281, which sounds pretty much like it looks (big, powerful, and controlled).
> ...



Thanks, I really appreciate such a detailed reply.  What I inferred from 'pillowy' isn't far from what you provided here. 

I think you're describing what I hear mentioned over and over as the 'Cavalli house sound'.

I really need to go to some meet-ups and hear a lot more equipment.  I think I would prefer the v281 sound to the LC, but I really can't know until I do some direct comparisons.

Again, thanks for the comprehensive response.


----------



## Pharmaboy

cubed4life said:


> Pharmaboy, how would you compare G109A to V281?



Despite owning both & listening to them extensively, I've never actually compared them (odd as that may seem).

Setting aside obvious design differences (ie, G109-A is single-ended only, tops out at ~1/3 of max power of V281, has 43-step volume pot vs 128-step on V281), this is what I hear:

The V281 is extremely powerful, has sensational bass, and also has what sounds to me like state-of-the art soundstaging for a solid state design. It's big, bold, strong, and never wavers no matter what load is placed on it. I have likened the V281 to having Superman on the desktop...it can do anything it wants to.
_balanced output slightly enhances that already noteworthy soundstaging--not something the G109-A can do, as it's SE all the way._

And yet....with that one exception (soundstaging), the G109-A is very impressive: a calm, even-natured design that does everything well & nothing wrong. Despite the power difference, it actually competes w/the V281. Every headphone I've heard through the G109-A sounds very good. While it may not have the ultimate dynamics ("jump factor") or soundstaging width/impact of the V281, the G109-A is extremely listenable, and powerful it its own way. I've never gotten it to 1/2 total volume.
These 2 amps have a strong family resemblance--strong/impactful bass (the V281 even more so), even rendering of frequencies, top-to-bottom, slight warmth (a bit more on the G109-A, but still rather subtle), very good dynamics (G109-A), and extremely good dynamics (V281).
I call the G109-A the "truth-teller" amp. Not because it's bright or clinical (quite the opposite), but because every headphone I hear through it sounds more like itself, with no particular sonic flavor coming from the amp. It's quiet, transparent, has black backgrounds...the G109-A has a very pleasing sound w/no coloration.

I can't imagine ever selling the G109-A.


----------



## cubed4life

Thats very insightful Pharmaboy, I appreciate your take on them. I real enjoy the G109A and like you I wouldn't get rid of it. I have been wondering about Lake People / Vioelectric higher end amp offerings because of that; if G109A is this good(to me), what do you get up the line? I'm sure you get more resolution as well?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, I think the answer breaks into 3 categories of improvements:

*Power:* The higher you go up the Lake People/Violectric line, the more power you get. I suspect power is somewhat less important than the other factors, assuming whatever you have already is sufficient for the headphone you use w/it. The V281 is way more powerful than the G109-A, and even more powerful than the LC...but I can't get any one of these amps up to even 50% volume at low gain (and they all make my power-hungry planar sound very good)--so maybe power is not the dominant factor here.*

*Functional: *The higher you go, the more features you get. Balanced output is the first big differentiating feature (RS 08; V280), but there are others, including preamp capability; and an array of switchable features (input switching + independent on/off for headphone vs line out (V220; V281)
*Sonics: *My experience has been that balanced HP output sounds somewhat more spacious and large, all other things being equal--so simply getting a balanced Violectric amp will tend to be an upgrade. But it's more nuanced than that in the Violectric line:

The RS 08 and G109 series are said to have a strong sonic resemblance
The V200 is usually described as the biggest sonic "leap" (also power output) in the line. Many people on Head-Fi give lots of love the V200...it's SE, but it is powerful, somewhat warm, and is a classic solid state upgrade move for those w/less expensive/powerful amps 

The V280 is the balanced version of the V200
And the V220 is the preamp/SE version of it
Then at the top of the heap is the V281, which is said to be slightly less warm than the V200 (but no Violectric/Lake People amp is commonly described as overly accurate, clinical, etched--any of that). It also has IMO spectacular soundstaging, which is usually described as "good but not great" in the lower models (such as the G109-A, which can't equal the V281 in that department). Then again, soundstaging being part of balanced, it's hard to say what is actually making the V281 better in soundstaging: balanced design; something else?
I'm leaving resolution out because that's not a quality that comes to mind as a distinguishing characteristic between my G109-A vs V281; nor do I hear people talk about it all that often regarding any of the line. Instead the big differentiators are soundstaging, power, balanced vs SE. 

To be honest, of all 4 amps I have, only the Matrix M Stage HPA-1 could really be described as having noticeably less resolution than the others (noted for its warm, "friendly" sound, which does get a bit "boomy" in the otherwise deep bass)--and that changed quite a bit when I rolled opamps.

I think of resolution more in connection with source components like DACs, turntables, etc.

* My Audio GD SA-31SE is rated for 10W @40 ohms, roughly double the rated power of the V281. Yet the SA-31SE sounds somewhat softer, less dynamic, and definitely less powerful than the V281. The reason that power doesn't track sound more closely is no doubt the fact that so many other design elements/decisions impact sound as much or more than output power alone (things like power supply design/filtering, S.N. ratio, THD, etc).


----------



## bluenight

DamageInc77 said:


> I used to have the Fiio Taishan D03K and the Modi Multibit did seem to bring in a much fuller sound to the mix.


Was there any other improvements you heard?


----------



## DamageInc77

bluenight said:


> Was there any other improvements you heard?



It's just a DAC. It's not gonna be night and day. Just a perceived increase in detail clarity.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 7, 2017)

So i got me a better dac, the ifi idsd bl. And the RS 02 now sound more fullbodied and not thin anymore


----------



## Maelob (Jul 11, 2017)

I am looking to get an amp to match my new Aeon, I currently have a Pulse XFI DAC that has xlr connectivity, it sounds good, but I wonder if the G103 or G109 would be better. My preferences are towards a relaxed and warmer sound signature.  I was thinking of a Liquid Carbon but they are hard to find, also was researching the Jut and Ruper Neve amps, Arcam Rhead, but came across these amps during my research and they sound interesting.  Any experience with Mr. Speakers headphones?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Maelob said:


> I am looking to get an amp to match my new Aeon, I currently have a Pulse XFI DAC that has xlr connectivity, it sounds good, but I wonder if the G103 or G109 would be better. My preferences are towards a relaxed and warmer sound signature.  I was thinking of a Liquid Carbon but they are hard to find, also was researching the Jut and Ruper Neve amps, Arcam Rhead, but came across these amps during my research and they sound interesting.  Any experience with Mr. Speakers headphones?



Not familiar with some of the units mentioned...all I can say is my G109-A sounds good with every headphone I ever tried with it--may be the best all-rounder I have, even compared to the Violectric V281 & Liquid Carbon (both are spectacular amps, though in rather different ways).

The G109-A is slightly warm & relaxed, but it never amounts to a coloration or a sonic overlay on the music. It just fails to ever sound bright, edgy, or labored. It also drives my power-hungry planar (ZMF Ori) extremely well.

The only "bad" thing I can say about the G109-A is that it has no balanced I/O capability. But really, that's not bad at at all. It does everything so well.


----------



## Maelob

Thanks


----------



## waverider

Has anyone had experience using the Lake People G109-S with the HD800S? I am looking for a good headphone amp for these headphones and found a pair second hand for $600 (CAD).


----------



## davidespinosa (Oct 6, 2017)

Here are some photos of my Lake People stack, which includes a G109-P:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-lake-people-dac-rs-06.806611/page-4#post-13767011


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## novicez1

waverider said:


> Has anyone had experience using the Lake People G109-S with the HD800S? I am looking for a good headphone amp for these headphones and found a pair second hand for $600 (CAD).



It's an alright pairing, provided your DAC is "compatible" with the 800S.


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## BLacklWf

A dumb question please.  Is 109-A same as 109-S?  I could not find 109-A from their website..


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> A dumb question please.  Is 109-A same as 109-S?  I could not find 109-A from their website..



I own the G109-A. It was the "anniversary" version of the standard G109, which comes in 2 versions:

"P" has 1 3-pin XLR balanced input pair + 1 RCA input pair
"S" has 1 RCA input pair
Both have 2 X 6.35mm outputs on front panel (ie, single-ended output only)
The Anniversary edition was subtly different. Here's how Lake People explained in their "Description" of this now-unavailable model:

_"The limited-edition Lake People G109A celebrates 30 years of brand excellence with a special front panel design, striking gold silk screening, and matching gold metalized feet. Plus this model adds low-ESR Nichicon capacitors and a protection relay circuit (used in all Violectric models)."_​All 3 iterations of the G109 have identical output power specs.

So to answer your question, "A" is 98% the same as "S," except as described in paragraph above. 

It's a great amp IMO. All my headphones sound very good through it.


----------



## BLacklWf

Pharmaboy said:


> I own the G109-A. It was the "anniversary" version of the standard G109, which comes in 2 versions:
> 
> "P" has 1 3-pin XLR balanced input pair + 1 RCA input pair
> "S" has 1 RCA input pair
> ...


​
Thanks!!


----------



## BLacklWf

I just ordered V281.  Your V281 vs G109-A comparison helped me much in choosing my first high end desktop amp.  Thanks!!



Pharmaboy said:


> I own the G109-A. It was the "anniversary" version of the standard G109, which comes in 2 versions...[/COLOR]


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> I just ordered V281.  Your V281 vs G109-A comparison helped me much in choosing my first high end desktop amp.  Thanks!!



Happy to hear that! 

I predict you'll like the V281...a lot.


----------



## bluenight (Nov 26, 2017)

novicez1 said:


> It's an alright pairing, provided your DAC is "compatible" with the 800S.


What sound should  a compatible dac have for HD 800s? I am guessing a none harsh sounding one.
Have an Lake people rs 02.
And ordered an HD 800s


----------



## Pharmaboy

any decent multi-bit/R2 R design would work well.

haven't heard the HD800s, but have 2 Audio GD multibit DACs, and they totally changed how I hear digital (ie, it no longer sounds "digital")


----------



## novicez1

Any DAC except a Sabre DAC would do.


----------



## bluenight

novicez1 said:


> Any DAC except a Sabre DAC would do.


Why not a sabre dac?
I also happen to have on order a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital with ESS Sabre Pro ES9038 onboard.


----------



## novicez1

Because most Sabre DACs that I have heard had accentuated treble.


----------



## bluenight (Nov 28, 2017)

novicez1 said:


> Because most Sabre DACs that I have heard had accentuated treble.


I can only hope it not the case with the project dac. Read a comment that someone said it was never harsh to listen to, dont know though what speakers or headphones he listened to. Amp mather also right? I dont find RS 02 have that much treble with hd 650.

I saw in your inventory that you have a Lake People RS06 DAC. I remember someone said it could sound very harsh with HD800. Compared to chord mojo.


----------



## novicez1

bluenight said:


> I can only hope it not the case with the project dac. Read a comment that someone said it was never harsh to listen to, dont know though what speakers or headphones he listened to. Amp mather also right? I dont find RS 02 have that much treble with hd 650.
> 
> I saw in your inventory that you have a Lake People RS06 DAC. I remember someone said it could sound very harsh with HD800. Compared to chord mojo.



Chord Mojo has it's top end attenuated too much.


----------



## bluenight

novicez1 said:


> Chord Mojo has it's top end attenuated too much.


Alright. 
Theres seven digital filters on the project dac. I can hope that one is less treble freindly if needed.


----------



## bluenight

I can report that i dont find pre box
S2 sabre dac HD 800s and lake people rs 02 to sound  harsh


----------



## Tuneslover

Spending time comparing the HD650 and HD6XX on my Lake People G109-S has me truly appreciating how terrific this amp is with these cans. I thought they paired well with my Jot and Project Ember but the G109 has become my favourite.


----------



## ciphy

Hi everyone,

I've been a 3-years user of the G109S, now paired with a LP RS06 and used until now on a Beyer DT880 250 ohms. I got to say I'm really happy with it! Very sturdy unit, well built and absolutely no flaw. It got tremendous power, absolutely clean sound whatever the pre-gain and position of the volume pot. The only thing I like a bit less is (was) a small perceived lack of medium frequencies. I think my ears were used to have more from my full size hi-fi system. Now I'm just used to it and it sounds perfect!

Recently I got to try several flagship headphones on my rig: Beyer T1, Hifiman HE-6, Senn HD800 (and other lower tier ones). They all sounded really good, and I even managed to drive the HE-6 to reaally loud levels, which is good news! (tremendous headphones by the way, I may try to buy one for myself).


----------



## irishsammy

Listening to my brand new used G109-P with HD600's.  The album is Led Zeppelin's first.

Really, really impressive amp.  The power is obviously there into a 300 ohm load...driver control seems pretty effortless for this German monster.  Textures aren't usually the Senns' forte but acoustic guitar in particular sounds more precise without any loss of intimacy.  And honestly, only tubes will get you more/better soundstage than this.  The HD600s are open cans and the G109 makes them sound that way.  It's never spacy or indistinct, either...very solid.

The Alpha Dogs are THE most power-hungry cans I've ever heard - Audezes and HFMs included - in terms of refinement of the "house sound" the MrSpeakers Fostex mods have.  I've heard a genuinely amazing increase in sound quality from the pre-Alpha offerings to the ADs...and now the G109 gives me the same increase in the ADs via better amplification.  They're a reference can IMO, despite their reputation as having a dark sound.  If you want a sound that will always impress you but never surprise you, the Alpha Dogs/G109-P should not be missed. 

DT880 600 ohms are notoriously picky with ANYTHING SS but I have a tough time finding objectionable parts of the signature of the G109.  DT880s are detail queens and nothing has changed there.  But the only other amp that sounds better in the rest of the frequency spectrum is the Bottlehead Crack.  There's none of that peaky quality the 880s can adopt without the proper source and amp.

It's expensive but there are times when going farther down the rabbit hole can net you some nice benefits.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I agree w/everything you say here (though never heard high impedance HPs w/my G109-A). This amp has plenty of power, a very pleasing sonic profile (slightly warm, authoritative bass, solid/musical mids & treble), and costs a fraction of what endgame amps cost.

Here's the scary thing about the G109: as good as it is, it's really just the 1st step on the quality & sound ladder at Violectric. As you go up the ladder (ie, to the V200, V220, V280, V281), everything gets even better, and the gains in functionality (balanced outs; preamp capability) are just as impressive as the sound.

It's hard to go wrong w/Lake People & Violectric. I'm crazy about their amps...


----------



## irishsammy

You were one of the primary reasons I bought the G109, Pharmaboy.  So many thanks to you for your insighful and pretty darn comprehensive coverage of the LP and Violectric offerings.


----------



## aylov

Tuneslover said:


> Spending time comparing the HD650 and HD6XX on my Lake People G109-S has me truly appreciating how terrific this amp is with these cans. I thought they paired well with my Jot and Project Ember but the G109 has become my favourite.


I feel like my HD6XX are too dark and too warm with my Lake People G103-S. I'm not saying that Lake People G103-S is very dark or warm, but maybe HD6XX requires brighter amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Interesting post. In recent months, I've been listening a lot to a modded pair of original HD650, trying them out on all 5 amps I have in the office. 4 of the 5 are SS designs (incl. Lake People G109-A); and the newest is the Woo WA3 OTL tube amp.

I've found that the modded HD650s sound quite simiiar (and good) on all SS amps. Despite that fact that 2 are balanced and 2 are SE (I have one of each cable for the HD650); and vary greatly in power, the sound is way more similar than different on all SS amps.

The big change is when I plug the HD650s in the WA3. It's not a "night and day" difference, but suddenly there's an overall sense of refinement, freedom from peaks/plateaus, and the HD650s sound the best I've ever heard them. Beside the well-known benefits of tubes for shaping the tone & timbre of headphones, I suspect the biggest factor here is impedance matching: the Woo is designed to be used w/high impedance headphones, and the HD650 is a high impedance headphone.

All to say I'm not sure how far one will get trying to match up the HD6XX w/bright vs warm SS amps. But I am sure you'll get more out of these headphones on a high-impedance amp.


----------



## Tuneslover

aylov said:


> I feel like my HD6XX are too dark and too warm with my Lake People G103-S. I'm not saying that Lake People G103-S is very dark or warm, but maybe HD6XX requires brighter amp.



Odd, personally I don't find the G109S and HD650 or HD6XX (I own both) that way at all.  I find the HD6XX slightly brighter sounding than my HD650 and both sound terrific with the G109S.  I also have the Jotunheim and love how it pairs with these Sennheiser headphones but they can get a bit fatiguing during long listening sessions.  I simply find that the G109S is a more relaxing amp but I wouldn't characterize it as dark or warm, but that's the way my ears hear it.


----------



## GivenTheOkiDoke

Looking to make a switch to a different SS. The past few years I have been using the Meier Corda Jazz and a few cheap hybrids. After reading deep into this thread and elsewere the G109 seems to be towards the top of my list. The other amp I was looking at was Rupert Neve RNPH. Has anyone done an AB of these two amps?


----------



## davidespinosa

GivenTheOkiDoke said:


> The other amp I was looking at was Rupert Neve RNPH.



Check the output power of the G109 and the RNHP into different loads:

@16 ohms
G109: 765 mW
RNHP: 230 mW

@44 ohms
G109: 1800 mW
RNHP: 300 mW

@150 ohms:
G109: 1500 mW (my estimate)
RNHP: 175 mW

@300 ohms:
G109: 1056 mW
RNHP: 88 mW (my estimate)

@600 ohms:
G109: 595 mW
RNHP: 44 mW (my estimate)


----------



## depthgrammar

Hi - just acquired a G109A for use with my HD650. It's a great amp! After listening at length a few ways, I'm finding I prefer the low gain setting. I was considering a V200 and even a V280 - have to say I'm not tempted to upgrade. G109 on low gain is pretty much exactly what I had hoped to hear from the reportedly warmer Violectric amps - very full bodied, a little rolled off in just the right way, but still plenty controlled and detailed. Have had the same experience with other amps paired with high impedance headphones - i find the low gain setting makes things more relaxed, improves realism, imaging, etc. Everything settles in a very satisfying way.  Of course, ymmv


----------



## Pharmaboy

depthgrammar said:


> Hi - just acquired a G109A for use with my HD650. It's a great amp! After listening at length a few ways, I'm finding I prefer the low gain setting. I was considering a V200 and even a V280 - have to say I'm not tempted to upgrade. G109 on low gain is pretty much exactly what I had hoped to hear from the reportedly warmer Violectric amps - very full bodied, a little rolled off in just the right way, but still plenty controlled and detailed. Have had the same experience with other amps paired with high impedance headphones - i find the low gain setting makes things more relaxed, improves realism, imaging, etc. Everything settles in a very satisfying way.  Of course, ymmv



Interesting post...and I agree w/everything you say about the G109-A. There is a strong "family sound" in the Lake People/Violectric amps. The V281 (which I also have) sounds like the G109-A on steroids--very similar, but a little more of everything except warmth.

BTW, I use low gain setting only on every amp, even the least powerful. Not only because it sounds better (and it does), but also because higher gain settings push either the headphone or system volume pot too far down toward zero volume--leaving me w/less adjustment at the least linear part of the pot's range.


----------



## Tuneslover

Pharmaboy said:


> Interesting post...and I agree w/everything you say about the G109-A. There is a strong "family sound" in the Lake People/Violectric amps. The V281 (which I also have) sounds like the G109-A on steroids--very similar, but a little more of everything except warmth.
> 
> BTW, I use low gain setting only on every amp, even the least powerful. Not only because it sounds better (and it does), but also because higher gain settings push either the headphone or system volume pot too far down toward zero volume--leaving me w/less adjustment at the least linear part of the pot's range.



I tinkered with the gain setting on my G109S (which is no easy feat) and did try the low gain for a while but I always felt that I needed to crank the volume pot pretty far leaving me with less pot room.  That might have been before I inserted DAC's into the chain (I don't remember) so it might be a worthy experiment again.  Thanks for giving me something else to tinker with .


----------



## depthgrammar

Tuneslover said:


> I tinkered with the gain setting on my G109S (which is no easy feat) and did try the low gain for a while but I always felt that I needed to crank the volume pot pretty far leaving me with less pot room.  That might have been before I inserted DAC's into the chain (I don't remember) so it might be a worthy experiment again.  Thanks for giving me something else to tinker with .



Might be worth trying it again now. Another thing I noticed, when I switched cables from some generic brand to the entry level Oyaide rcas, the level from my dac got significantly louder. This was with a different amp - but suddenly the lowest volume setting was too loud on high gain!  So I think every part of your chain can probably have an effect.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Gain-matching my system was pretty easy back when I used DACs that had ~1.9 volts output. Then I got the Audio GD NOS 19 (amazing sound) and its non-oversampling variant, the DAC-19. Both have 2 RCA output pairs, live at all times, which allowed me to really complicate my system, w/1 headphone amp on one RCA output; and a 2nd headphone amp (also functioning as preamp) on the other, feeding signal to the stereo amp + monitors + sub. 

for example, at the moment my amp/preamp is the M Stage Matrix HPA-1; and 2nd headphone amp is the G109-A.

However, these AGD DACs output 2.5 volts--which delivers 25% more system gain. That required setting various volume pots set quite a bit lower than before to deliver equivalent volume. With the Violectric V281 in particular, I found the std gain setting produced shockingly high gain. Luckily, the V281 has the most flexible/extensive I/O settings I've ever seen, incl. separate banks of gain dip-switches for HP outputs vs line level outputs. Dropping the gain on both sets of dip-switches by 12 dB did the trick. 

So with either of these high gain DACs in the system, I've found it's not practical to set any amp or amp/preamp to high(er) gain. It doesn't sound better, or even quite as good--and that volume pot goes way down in usable range again.


----------



## Pharmaboy

depthgrammar said:


> Might be worth trying it again now. Another thing I noticed, when I switched cables from some generic brand to the entry level Oyaide rcas, the level from my dac got significantly louder. This was with a different amp - but suddenly the lowest volume setting was too loud on high gain!  So I think every part of your chain can probably have an effect.



Wow. I realize different cables have different specs (ie, capacitance, other values). But to have a significant gain increase just from switching cables--didn't know that was possible. 

This is a complicated hobby, isn't it?


----------



## Tuneslover

Pharmaboy said:


> Wow. I realize different cables have different specs (ie, capacitance, other values). But to have a significant gain increase just from switching cables--didn't know that was possible.
> 
> This is a complicated hobby, isn't it?



But fun!!


----------



## Tuneslover

So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system.  As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position.  The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction.  So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen.  Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).

I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki).  I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.

I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones.  My interconnects are good quality Audioquest.  Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.


----------



## depthgrammar

Tuneslover said:


> So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system.  As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position.  The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction.  So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen.  Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).
> 
> I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki).  I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.
> 
> I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones.  My interconnects are good quality Audioquest.  Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.



Interesting. My setup is pretty similar to yours and on low gain my listening level with HD650 is still mostly around 10 -11 o'clock. I do like to listen on the quiet side, but full volume is much louder than I'd ever need it to go.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 21, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system.  As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position.  The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction.  So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen.  Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).
> 
> I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki).  I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.
> 
> I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones.  My interconnects are good quality Audioquest.  Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.



One thing I forgot to mention is that I have a unit that was purchased and shipped from Germany (Thomann.de) which is a 220V unit complete with a German power cord (& plug).  Since Thomann.de knew I was from Canada, I assumed that they would have shipped me a North American 110V model, but alas that important detail was overlooked.

After some discussion with Fried Reim (@fdg) and other posters on this thread it was concluded that a STEP UP TRANSFORMER was what I would require.  I purchased a SIMRAN AC-200 which will do both STEP UP (if you use a 220V/240V appliance in the U.S.) and also STEP DOWN (if you use a North American appliance in 220V/240V appliances).

So I have the transformer switched to 110 based on the instructions, which reads:  *Select 110V to use as a Step Up Transformer using Foreign 220/240V appliances in the U.S.*

I just double checked to make sure that I had the selector in the correct position, I did.  For the heck of it I decided to open up the G109S once again and moved the jumper to low gain and then switched the transformer to the 220V position to see if this would increase the low gain setting.  It didn't, in fact it sounded identical no matter what position I had the voltage selector switched.  So I don't know what's up but it seems like my unit doesn't output nearly as loud as others have reported.


----------



## USAFPharm86

Hello Everyone, 

Just wanted to ask your recommendations on the G109S compared to the Audio GD C-2. Currently own the Audio GD R2R 11, great DAC, but I am not impressed with the amp so far. I have to crank the volume knob up high on both Low/high gain to hear clear details and this leads to ear fatigue. I plan to use the R2R 11 as the DAC and run RCA to the G109S or Audio GD C-2.  

I am looking for an amp with wide soundstage, great clarity, and non fatiguing. Something I can listen to at lower volumes and still hear all the details in the sound. I can’t currently listen to low volumes on my R2R 11. I also get ear fatigue really easy from almost anything with high treble/shouty mids. 

I have heard great things on the C-2 from a fellow head-fi member, but I don’t like the large form factor. The G109S seems like an awesome amp as well and it would fit my desk much better compared to the C-2. 

Headphones used: Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Sennheiser HD6XX, Hifiman HE-500, and Hifiman HE-400s. 

Thanks to everyone for the help.


----------



## Tuneslover

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to ask your recommendations on the G109S compared to the Audio GD C-2. Currently own the Audio GD R2R 11, great DAC, but I am not impressed with the amp so far. I have to crank the volume knob up high on both Low/high gain to hear clear details and this leads to ear fatigue. I plan to use the R2R 11 as the DAC and run RCA to the G109S or Audio GD C-2.
> 
> ...



I can tell you that the HD6XX sounds very good on the G109S.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 4, 2018)

Hi, can somebody recommend me an amp for the DT 770 600 ohm? I was thinking g103-p. I need a flat response to produce electronic music, so no "warm exotic" stuff, or ridiculous trebble, just a clean signal, good soundstage, powerful enough (I dont want to get tinnitus, so no need for super loudness..)

if I get the g103-p Do I need to open it and change the jumper to high?

Also is it true that if you plug a low impedance headphone in one jack and a high impedance headphone on the other jack the low impedance one can literally be set on fire? This is my first pre amp so I want to know everything to not do something stupid. That is a bit off putting tho, I thought they would take care of that and not just let the headphone die...

I learned that watching this video: 



Go to 1 minute 52 seconds.

Please let me know.


----------



## beyermann

Here's some comments on Lake People and the 103 from soneone that tried them + other high gear:



> nope not for proper neutral, the rest is basically neutral'ish with a warm tilt or warm. It cost money to get neutral especially if you want it to be detailed/revealing, since then you start to get into the pro gear realm. You must also take into consideration that a lot of people tend to enjoy a sound that is a bit warm. Though I don't fully understand why this is so important for you, since your headphones are already very colored in their sound and a neutral amp won't change this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> The K550/553 is a flatter and overall a more detailed closed back, but still not that flat and then you have HD 280 and 7506 which again aren't that flat. The closed market is fairly limited and you actually pay a premium to get closed over open once you get out of the like $100 range, since then open for the same price start to be better in technical abilities. TBH all headphones kinda suck for mixing, especially closed. You should really be mixing on speakers and then use both open and closed headphones to check for the small flaws in the music and ofc check how it sounds with headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I find this interesting because most people i've heard here said the 103/109 are neutral and good for mixing, however this guy said that not at all, Monotor and Corda classic much better for mixing. Thoughts?


----------



## Pharmaboy

beyermann said:


> Here's some comments on Lake People and the 103 from soneone that tried them + other high gear:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a constant tug-of-war in audio between accuracy/detail vs warm/life-like reproduction. Often this  is openly discussed as preference & opinion, with people expressing a subjective preference for accuracy & detail (favoring relatively bright & presumably more accurate audio gear); or for some degree of warmth & foundational bass weight (favoring relatively natural, musical & presumably less acccurate audio gear). I'm firmly in the latter group, because IMO audio gear (including headphones) like that better convey the sound of real music I've heard in physical venues.

But this tug-of-war sometimes takes on confrontational aspects when 2 other evidentiary stances are involved:

*1 - *F*lat frequency/empirical*, where people fight (sometimes bitterly) over the claimed scientific validity of flat audio reproduction, measured by frequency graphs. Sometimes these arguments pivot on the claimed need for blind-listening tests; and/or

*2 - Audio professional*, where people involved in recording, tracking/mixing & producing music seek the most forensic audio gear for their work.

I've learned to ignore these controversies and follow my own ears. But this stuff can still matter if one needs advice regarding new headphones or audio gear. This happened to me recently when I did months of research on my next pair of powered studio monitors for the desktop. What I found was the majority of all user comments (& formal reviews) involved audio professionals. It became starkly clear that music pros have quite different needs & preferences for gear than do music lovers, audiophiles, and headphone nuts (I'm all 3). I learned to "read through" most user comments...

It's true that professionals who mix music need accurate/forensive music transducers for their work--because any colorations make it impossible to produce final recordings that sound as intended on a range of music systems). But some music pros will also admit that speakers or headphones that suit their work can sound pretty bad when used for music appreciation.

In the long run, it comes back to each person knowing his/her own preferences for audio reproduction. All the arguing and theorizing in the world can't substitute for real awareness of what sounds good to you. 

PS: I own a Lake People G109-A & a Violectric V281, both very fine amps; and owned/sold a K553 headphone (it sounded miserable to me). A friend of mine has a Jazz HP amp and loves it.


----------



## Kane Williams

Does anyone know where the G93 would fit in the line up? I know it's discontinued now, but would this be lower down the line to the G103/G105/G109 as the naming convention would suggest? I realise it has a fixed power cable, but parts/sound wise how does it compare?


----------



## kalibur

How would the G109P compare with the RS02/08 -  anyone compared them?


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone compared the G109P to the Burson Soloist SL mkII?


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 5, 2019)

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone compared the G109P to the Burson Soloist SL mkII?



I can comment on an approximate comparison--similar to what you outline. I own a single-ended Lake People G109-A ("A" stands for "Anniversary" edition). I also at one time owned the larger Burson Soloist amp/preamp--the one pictured in review below. The soloist is double the power of the SL (4wpc) and has full preamp facility:

https://www.headfonia.com/less-blockage-more-music-burson-soloist/

I briefly owned both at the same time, then sold the Soloist. There were major differences between then, sonically & operationally:

The G109-A (which I still own & love) is relatively compact, powerful, and has that classic Lake People sound: slightly warm, great bass, full mids & treble but zero brightness, and average-but-pleasing soundstaging. It's not a hyper-detailed, hi-rez sound. I find it be very musical, authoritative, sounding like music does IRL
The Soloist was larger & ~twice the power. The bass was great, but everything above that became problematic for me due to slight but everpresent edginess/brightness. I had to choose matching source DAC and headphones more carefully w/the Soloist.
_It also had the most annoying stepped volume pot I've ever encountered, with just 14 steps, only the bottom 2-3 of which were usable in my system. _
_The pot annoyed me so much that I contacted Burson about getting an analog/non-stepped version of the pot, which certainly made the Soloist more usable for me._

These power of the Soloist SL & G109-S is equivalent (~2 wpc); and neither can be used as a preamp. 
If it was me, choosing between the Lake People sound vs Burson sound, it would be Lake People every time.


----------



## chimney189

Pharmaboy said:


> I can comment on an approximate comparison--similar to what you outline. I own a single-ended Lake People G109-A ("A" stands for "Anniversary" edition). I also at one time owned the larger Burson Soloist amp/preamp--the one pictured in review below. The soloist is double the power of the SL (4wpc) and has full preamp facility:
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/less-blockage-more-music-burson-soloist/
> 
> ...



I’m actually finding the Soloist to have a somewhat soft, yet bodied bass. 

I love the top end of it, and the mid-range seems somewhat forward while the soundstage is surprisingly small with little depth.


----------



## funkle II

If I already own a THX AAA 789, in terms of sound signature, would the G109-A be redundant, or a good compliment? Am I correct in assuming the 109 might be perceptively warmer & more musical?


----------



## Pharmaboy

funkle II said:


> If I already own a THX AAA 789, in terms of sound signature, would the G109-A be redundant, or a good compliment? Am I correct in assuming the 109 might be perceptively warmer & more musical?



I haven't heard the THX AAA 789, but read many comments about its overall neutral sound that doesn't flatter less than ideal sources. So it's safe to assume the G109-A* is somewhat warmer & more musical (the "house sound" of Lake People & Violectric). The bass is very nice, deep & impactful. The G109-A was my first serious amp, and it still pleases me a lot.

So net/net, the G109 would be a compliment, definitely not redundant

* current models are G109-S w/RCA inputs; and  G109-P, with 2 X 3-pin XLR inputs. The G109-S sells for ~470. 

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Lake-People-c34633357​

There are some differences between the 789 and these:

The Lake People amps top out at ~2.3W, less than the 789. But this power rating is deceptive. I've never managed to get the volume pot on mine to as high as 12 o'clock, even w/my power hog ZMF Ori (this w/the amp on low gain--there are 3 internal settings)
The 789 can output 4-pin XLR, balanced signal to headphones having a balanced cable, while the G109's cannot (they're both strictly single-ended)
And the G109s are somewhat smaller, particular in width


----------



## cirodts

hello, I have a simple question: what is the difference between the LP G111 and the LP g103 s?
To drive an Amiron and a sundara is the LP g 103 sufficient for power?
lp g111 and lp g103 s same sound quality?
thanks.


----------



## SummingStrange

cirodts said:


> what is the difference between the LP G111 and the LP g103 s?
> lp g111 and lp g103 s same sound quality?


I'd like to know about this too, or maybe the g109 vs the g111.
I did read somewhere that the g111 is the replacement for the g109.
Apologies if the thread is dead.


----------



## davidespinosa

For the G103 vs G109, this article is informative and has good photos:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers

For the G109P vs G111, the differences should be very subtle.
You have to ask @ArthurPower or @fdg .

G109S = Standard = RCA inputs
G109P = Professional = XLR inputs

Whether you can head differences in sound depends on:
* How hard your headphones are to drive
* How loud you listen
* How good your ears are
* How you're feeling that day.

Lake People and Violectric gear is awesome, totally pro stuff.


----------



## SummingStrange

Thanks for the advice!
Lake People's website describes the g111 as the successor to the g100.
This website: G111 Power Holdings describes the G111 as the successor to the G109 and G100, so I think that's where I got the idea from.


----------



## davidespinosa (Jul 20, 2020)

SummingStrange said:


> Lake People's website describes the g111 as the successor to the g100.



Lake People / Violectric has three families of headphone amps:
The "utility" range, which uses power op amps (like the G103).
The "music studio" 100 range, which uses discrete transistors.
The "audiophile" 200 range, which also uses discrete transistors.

Fried has said that the 100 range is more accurate but less musical than the 200 range.
I've had both and couldn't tell the difference.
But the 200 range has more transistors in parallel, so it can deliver more current.
The 100 range includes the G100, V100, G109, RS02, RS08, and G111.
The 200 range includes the V200, V220, V280, and V281.
There's also Niimbus and the new V590.

IMO, these are all really good amps, so I'd go by features and appearance.
The basic feature differences are:
* balanced vs unbalanced
* preamp vs just headphone amp
* RCA vs XLR


----------



## Tuneslover

davidespinosa said:


> Lake People / Violectric has three families of headphone amps:
> The "utility" range, which uses power op amps (like the G103).
> The "music studio" 100 range, which uses discrete transistors.
> The "audiophile" 200 range, which also uses discrete transistors.
> ...


I have owned the Lake People G109S for 6 years now and appreciate it's sound and power, however I am anxiously waiting for the shipment of my new Violectric V280.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Tuneslover said:


> I have owned the Lake People G109S for 6 years now and appreciate it's sound and power, however I am anxiously waiting for the shipment of my new Violectric V280.



I have the G109-A (the "Anniversary" model of the G109S) and the Violectric V281, which differs from your V281 primarily in that it has preamp facility & (I believe) a bigger power supply. I love them both--the sound is quite similar, but of course the V281 has >2X the power of the G109, plus can do balanced in/out & preamp. IMO the biggest difference between them is the insane dynamics of the V281 + its even better (deeper, more impactful) bass. That's saying something, since the G109 series has great bass...

I've tried 1-2 dozen headphones on the V281, including some real endgame designs. I can't get a single headphone to sound less than above average on the V281; and a number of them sound flat-out amazing.

If you like your G109, you're going to _*love*_ the V280 (the easiest predication I ever made).


----------



## Tuneslover

Pharmaboy said:


> I have the G109-A (the "Anniversary" model of the G109S) and the Violectric V281, which differs from your V281 primarily in that it has preamp facility & (I believe) a bigger power supply. I love them both--the sound is quite similar, but of course the V281 has >2X the power of the G109, plus can do balanced in/out & preamp. IMO the biggest difference between them is the insane dynamics of the V281 + its even better (deeper, more impactful) bass. That's saying something, since the G109 series has great bass...
> 
> I've tried 1-2 dozen headphones on the V281, including some real endgame designs. I can't get a single headphone to sound less than above average on the V281; and a number of them sound flat-out amazing.
> 
> If you like your G109, you're going to _*love*_ the V280 (the easiest predication I ever made).


Cool feedback, thanks.

I just purchased a used Audeze LCD-3f and it really sounds amazing with RME ADI-2 fs DAC and G109S.

I have been doing a brain burn-in for about a month now using the G109S with all of my headphones (with no sound enhancements or EQ from the RME) so that I can appreciate the sound difference I will get from the V280.  All of my headphones have been re-terminated to XLR except the LCD-3 so I better get them changed before the V280 arrives.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Tuneslover said:


> Cool feedback, thanks.
> 
> I just purchased a used Audeze LCD-3f and it really sounds amazing with RME ADI-2 fs DAC and G109S.
> 
> I have been doing a brain burn-in for about a month now using the G109S with all of my headphones (with no sound enhancements or EQ from the RME) so that I can appreciate the sound difference I will get from the V280.  All of my headphones have been re-terminated to XLR except the LCD-3 so I better get them changed before the V280 arrives.



It's not a complete necessity that you listen only to balanced headphones via V280. The single-ended outputs of my V281 sound terrific--but there is a sonic bump with balanced. It's fairly subtle, affecting soundstage & background "blackness" more than anything else.

I listened to my Fidelio X2s on the V281 (that HP is single-ended all the way) and the sound rocked me....


----------



## SummingStrange

davidespinosa said:


> Lake People / Violectric has three families of headphone amps:
> The "utility" range, which uses power op amps (like the G103).
> The "music studio" 100 range, which uses discrete transistors.
> The "audiophile" 200 range, which also uses discrete transistors.
> ...



This is a great guide!


----------



## Wesbound (Jul 21, 2020)

I got lake People G100W, clean,powerful and neutral. It drives HD800S easily at  3/4 of its power. Sometimes i think to purchase the v281 but Then i think: is it really 5x better than my G100w?


----------



## Oliverw

Hi Everyone,

i would like to ask, if anyone tried the G109 with the LCD-X? And if anyone tried the G109 with the Topping D70 dac?

Thank You


----------



## srrd

To add my experiences to this thread:

I've perceived LP devices to be very clean and happy to drive lots of different headphones with different impedances, be it planar or dynamic drivers.
As far as sound is concerned, I've tested both the G103 and the G111 and didn't find any noticable difference between the two.

Still own the G103, and I don't really see myself buying another HP amp for the forseeable future.


----------



## Stevko

Is it easy to change gain? need any tool?
(see it is dip-switch inside)


----------



## srrd

Stevko said:


> Is it easy to change gain? need any tool?
> (see it is dip-switch inside)


Yes, you need an adequately sized allen key or a Torx TX10 (depending on the model) to remove the housing and to get to the gain switch


----------



## Stevko (Jun 1, 2021)

Thanks.
Better to go for a model with the switch outside


----------



## Angel III

With the V200 I perform the pre-gain adjustment based on the rotation of the volume knob. I make the pre-gain settings so that the volume knob gives me a medium perceived sound at 11 o'clock and high at 13. In this way the amplifier gives me a good soundstage and excellent sound body. I hope it has been of help to you.


----------



## Stevko

I Wanna try a german amp with mine beyerdynamics


----------



## Pharmaboy

I bought a good set of metric allen wrenches ~4 yrs ago and occasionally am glad I did. A number of audio items items use small allen bolts to attach outer covers to the unit.

I actually never needed to use a metric allen wrench on my G109-A, because the default low gain setting is perfect for all my headphones. But I definitely used a wrench (several times) on my V281 during my opamp rolling experiments. Also used a wrench to take off the cover, allowing me to swap tubes in the buffer circuit of the MHDT Labs Orchid DAC.


----------



## Stevko

What headphones are you using in default low gain?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Stevko said:


> What headphones are you using in default low gain?



Currently: ZMF Ori, Aeolus, Verite Open; heavily modded HD650 (JAR650); Philips Fidelio X2s; DCA Aeon Flow Open

Past: LCD-2.1 & LCD-3 (both pre-fazor); Meze Empyrean; Hifiman Edition X v2; ZMF Atticus; Kennerton Odin Thridi (currently F.S. here); Status Audio CB-1; 3-4 of the ISK MDH9000 clones; Onkyo A8000; TH-X00 mahogan; E-Mu Teak

The Lake People G109-A has plenty of power. I never once felt like it wasn't up to driving any headphone.

The ZMF Ori is a power-hog planar. With that I can get the volume dial between 11-12:30 on the dial on low gain to get to my usual moderate/loudness listening level. All The others require less power. I've never tried a true power hog like the HFM HE6E...no doubt that would require high gain, and even that might not be enough.


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## CT007 (Jun 19, 2021)

Anyone know how to change the G111 to 115V..? *crickets* (I was told by the US seller that it's set to 115V, but the manual says otherwise - how can I verify that it's 115 or 230?)

"This unit is provided with an internally settable mains supply for 115 or 230 V AC. Ex works the unit is normally set to 230 V AC."

"The unit is factory-set to a mains voltage of 230 VAC. It may be set to 115 V AC operation internally. Mains voltage may vary between 190 and 240 V respectively 80 and 120 V without any effect on flawless operation. The built-in toroidal mains transformer provides the internal supply voltages of +/- 30 Volt and +/- 18 V."






On the Violectric V590, it is a simple toggle switch:


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## Stevko

CT007 said:


> Anyone know how to change the G111 to 115V..? *crickets*


https://doc-0c-c4-docs.googleuserco.../1qVmELnUeitbWWX3eLKTJ32V9piP7K3Mh?e=download


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## CT007

Stevko said:


> https://doc-0c-c4-docs.googleuserco.../1qVmELnUeitbWWX3eLKTJ32V9piP7K3Mh?e=download


"Access to doc-0c-c4-docs.googleusercontent.com was denied
You don't have authorization to view this page."


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## Stevko

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Lake-People-G111-Headphone-Amplifier-p137192152


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## Stevko

Switch inside


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## DuerumBen

Stevko said:


> Switch inside


huh didnt see any switches in his pics on HF maybe on the underside of the PCB? o_O
But ill have to say LakePeople could have described the operation for Mainsswitching much better -_-


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## CT007 (Jun 20, 2021)

Stevko said:


> Switch inside


Yep, there is no switch mentioned or shown in the manual. There is one with Violectric V590, however.

I was able to determine that mine is set to 115V by turning it on and seeing that it works normally, though I can't point out how it is set to 115V on the hardware.


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## nbaptista

I have Sennheiser hd 280 pro and a Bluesound node 2i,the Sennheiser is connected to the headphone output node 2i, and it sounds fine. I wonder if a Lake People 103 S would improve the Sennheiser or it is a side step…?


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## Stevko

103 and HD 600/650 is a good thing


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## nbaptista

And 103 and HD 280pro?


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## Stevko

Yes


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## cjc

Any Lake People Distributors in the USA selling the G103-S?
 I see it at Thomann for about $260.00 and would gladly pay that if I could buy it in the US.


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## Tuneslover

cjc said:


> Any Lake People Distributors in the USA selling the G103-S?
> I see it at Thomann for about $260.00 and would gladly pay that if I could buy it in the US.


Are you looking for new only?


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## cjc

Tuneslover said:


> Are you looking for new only?


Used G103/109 is fine . I also would consider the G-111.


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## CTR640

Are Lake People popular or not? I haven't seen a lot about them but they seem to be loved by a lot.
I'd like to get the G103S, is that a fine one too?

But I'm concerned because of sensitive headphones. Is it a problem?


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## CT007

CTR640 said:


> Are Lake People popular or not? They seem to be loved by a lot.


I think you answered your own question there? 


CTR640 said:


> I'd like to get the G103S, is that a fine one too?


I haven't heard that one, only G111. It seems quite old by now. I guess it depends A) where you live, B) how much it costs, if you can find one for sale, C) what your budget is, and what phones you want to use with the amp.

For sub-$500 amps, I highly recommend *JDS ATOM+*/ATOM($99), Schiit Asgard 3($249), and *Topping A30 Pro*($380). Or a Schiit OTL/hybrid amp if you want tubes, or _need _balanced(Vali 3, Lyr, 3 Valhalla 2, _Magnius_). I like the A30 Pro _way _more than the G111, with its phenomenal power, and acceptance of balanced or SE inputs. I think ATOM+ is unbeatable at $100; perfectly clean amplification, just like its supposed to do.


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## CTR640 (Dec 12, 2021)

CT007 said:


> I think you answered your own question there?
> 
> I haven't heard that one, only G111. It seems quite old by now. I guess it depends A) where you live, B) how much it costs, if you can find one for sale, C) what your budget is, and what phones you want to use with the amp.
> 
> For sub-$500 amps, I highly recommend *JDS ATOM+*/ATOM($99), Schiit Asgard 3($249), and *Topping A30 Pro*($380). Or a Schiit OTL/hybrid amp if you want tubes, or _need _balanced(Vali 3, Lyr, 3 Valhalla 2, _Magnius_). I like the A30 Pro _way _more than the G111, with its phenomenal power, and acceptance of balanced or SE inputs. I think ATOM+ is unbeatable at $100; perfectly clean amplification, just like its supposed to do.


Yeah, I was curious about but there are no negative reviews about the G103. I live in the Netherlands and Thomann sells the G103-S for €249.
I have the K5 Pro and I should be able to connect using RCA. I forgot the K5 Pro has optical so I can use it on my OLED tv next year on my desk.
I would like a lean and fuller sound. Schiit products seems to be out of stock? My K5 Pro only has unbalanced so RCA should be only unbalanced too?

It has to be for desktop use.


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## CT007

CTR640 said:


> RCA should be only unbalanced too?


That's correct, I believe. XLR from DAC to amp, for balanced.


CTR640 said:


> Schiit products seems to be out of stock?


I don't see any out of stocks. There's just a long wait time, lately. I had to wait 8 weeks for my Bifrost 2.


CTR640 said:


> I would like a lean and fuller sound.


Lean? Or clean? You want more detailed/analytical, not so much warm/smooth/bassy? So you probably don't want a tube or hybrid, then. Definitely a solid state. I would say the ATOM/ATOM+ sounds completely neutral. Asgard 3 is on the warm side, but not tube warm. A30 Pro sounds very full(maximum bass drive, from all of that amp power), and not particularly colored at all. I would highly suggest to use your K5 Pro as a DAC, then get an A30 Pro for it, if you can afford it. Then upgrade your DAC later down the road.


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## CTR640 (Dec 13, 2021)

CT007 said:


> That's correct, I believe. XLR from DAC to amp, for balanced.
> 
> I don't see any out of stocks. There's just a long wait time, lately. I had to wait 8 weeks for my Bifrost 2.
> 
> Lean? Or clean? You want more detailed/analytical, not so much warm/smooth/bassy? So you probably don't want a tube or hybrid, then. Definitely a solid state. I would say the ATOM/ATOM+ sounds completely neutral. Asgard 3 is on the warm side, but not tube warm. A30 Pro sounds very full(maximum bass drive, from all of that amp power), and not particularly colored at all. I would highly suggest to use your K5 Pro as a DAC, then get an A30 Pro for it, if you can afford it. Then upgrade your DAC later down the road.


Yes, clean. And no, I don't want detailed/analytical, I want warm/smooth/bassy.

Tubes always have intrigued me despites I haven't mentioned much here. The tubes looks something else and a lot have said they are more smooth and warmer sounding? The Auris Audio HA-2SF looks something else, I like it the wooden with tubes. Or the Auris Audio Euterpe. But the prices are most into the wood?

And yes, I plan on keeping the K5 Pro because I use it a lot and it fits my needs perfectly. I totally forgot it has optical so whenever I upgrade to LG 42C2 next year, I should be able to connect the TV to K5P and then use my headphones, right? And besides, the strict use for all of this is only for on my PC desk.

I'll check out the A30 Pro. And what about the DX3+ Pro?


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## CT007

CTR640 said:


> I should be able to connect the TV to K5P and then use my headphones, right?


In one way or another, I would think this would work.


CTR640 said:


> And what about the DX3+ Pro?


That would be a big downgrade from the A30 Pro, amp-wise, and DAC-wise it's probably about the same performance as your K5P. If you need a good sounding Bluetooth DAC, I think Topping D50s is great. But if you don't need Bluetooth, then I would just use your K5P.


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## CTR640

CT007 said:


> In one way or another, I would think this would work.
> 
> That would be a big downgrade from the A30 Pro, amp-wise, and DAC-wise it's probably about the same performance as your K5P. If you need a good sounding Bluetooth DAC, I think Topping D50s is great. But if you don't need Bluetooth, then I would just use your K5P.


A30 Pro would be the better choice? I'm wondering too if I should upgrade. I mean, I would like a smooth, warm and fuller sound.


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## Angel III

CTR640 said:


> A30 Pro would be the better choice? I'm wondering too if I should upgrade. I mean, I would like a smooth, warm and fuller sound.


In my opinion what matters most in an amplifier is the separation of the musical instruments. The schiit magni 3+ that I owned, at moderate volumes, went into acoustic confusion, when there were more musical instruments in the track. Lake People G111 for me is a guarantee in managing the sounds. If you are looking for bass and whatnot use equalizers.


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## CTR640

Angel III said:


> In my opinion what matters most in an amplifier is the separation of the musical instruments. The schiit magni 3+ that I owned, at moderate volumes, went into acoustic confusion, when there were more musical instruments in the track. Lake People G111 for me is a guarantee in managing the sounds. If you are looking for bass and whatnot use equalizers.


The G111 is on the list too and my max budget I want to spend is €500. So far Thomann has them. If I don't like it, I should be able to return. This is a big rabbit hole for sure!

I'm not a basshead myself but I like more musical bass, not the muddy or where details are lost. And there are headphones made for bassheads anyway. EQ indeed is the best solution.

Btw, my K5 Pro is unbalanced. Would it be an issue if I use balanced to K5 Pro? It's nice to see the G111 has both unbalanced and balanced but I'd like to know more about connecting balanced device to unbalanced device.


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## CT007 (Dec 13, 2021)

CTR640 said:


> G111 has both unbalanced and balanced


G111 is a really goofy amp... It only has balanced INPUTS on the back; the headphone jacks are only unbalanced.


CTR640 said:


> A30 Pro would be the better choice?


A30 Pro is way better than G111, K5 Pro's amp, and DX3+ Pro's amp. It's a no-brainer, and the best I know of up to $500. You won't regret it, if you can afford it.  G111 will be a little smoother sounding, with poorer/softer bass and detail performance, and slightly more soundstage(but you won't notice it).


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## CTR640

CT007 said:


> G111 is a really goofy amp... It only has balanced INPUTS on the back; the headphone jacks are only unbalanced.
> 
> A30 Pro is way better than G111, K5 Pro's amp, and DX3+ Pro's amp. It's a no-brainer, and the best I know of up to $500. You won't regret it, if you can afford it.  G111 will be a little smoother sounding, with poorer/softer bass and detail performance, and slightly more soundstage(but you won't notice it).


Yeah, you're right. Despites the G111 is on the list, now _was _but never intended to actually get it. I've been searching a lot about those and boy, some reviews are way old, like from 2010 or so! Or was it the other G100 series? To me, the G111 sounds like they crammed G103-S and G103-P together, doubling the price and call it a day. 

All I want is smoother and fuller sound, smooth as for smooth treble.

And all I have to do is simply connect the A30 Pro to my K5 Pro using RCA unbalanced and that's it? And doesn't the A30 get too warm in temperatures?


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## Angel III

CTR640 said:


> The G111 is on the list too and my max budget I want to spend is €500. So far Thomann has them. If I don't like it, I should be able to return. This is a big rabbit hole for sure!
> 
> I'm not a basshead myself but I like more musical bass, not the muddy or where details are lost. And there are headphones made for bassheads anyway. EQ indeed is the best solution.
> 
> Btw, my K5 Pro is unbalanced. Would it be an issue if I use balanced to K5 Pro? It's nice to see the G111 has both unbalanced and balanced but I'd like to know more about connecting balanced device to unbalanced device.


I hope it will be useful to you.. read at the end of the discussion:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lake-people-g111.25163/

I prefer to have a clean sounding amplifier. If I want mega deep bass and warm sounds or whatever, I'm going to look for this in the world of headphones.
Good quality solid state amps may be mildly more or less neutral .. but they will always be in the neutral zone (like my V200). It would be traumatic to have a mapped amplifier that accentuates certain frequencies..Oratory1990 presets would be unusable.👋


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## CT007 (Dec 13, 2021)

CTR640 said:


> And all I have to do is simply connect the A30 Pro to my K5 Pro using RCA unbalanced and that's it?


Yep! 2 RCA cables, done. I recommend Ghent Audio, if you want some good, new cables.


CTR640 said:


> And doesn't the A30 get too warm in temperatures?


Too warm for who? You can't cook anything on it. : ) All the good amps get a little hot, heh. A30P doesn't get anywhere near as hot as a Loki Mini+ or Vali 2.

Yes, G111 is new. I got one of the first ones out this year, I believe.


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## anoobis

Wow, getting on for the 10th anniversary of the thread!

Having just picked up a G103-S, of course I now learn about the (I think) relatively new MkII. Typical 
@CTR640 do you know which version you were looking at recently? So obviously the Head-Fi paranoia/OCD kicks in, I would be interested to know the differences/improvements, and hopefully it's relevant here.

Similarly, have there been other earlier revisions? The version I bought has a different front plate to that at the thread start. It looks a little like the MkII in placement of the name and logo. I also think it has different gain settings but don't know for sure.

That out of the way, this thread (or the bits I read!) convinced me to take a punt on Lake People and whatever the version, it won't have become worse  I'm particularly intrigued with the comment suggestive of like an O2 but more.

Very much looking forward to the LP G103 arriving and giving at run out, and hopefully it'll be  to the thread, not  !!


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## Pharmaboy

FYI, I have an absolutely cherry, little used Lake People G109-A (the "Anniversary" version of the stock 109-S, with better relays and a slightly different faceplate). I'll be selling this wonderful single-ended amp next weekend or so. 

I have 7 amps with another one on the way, and these days listen primarily via balanced cable. Something had to give, and it's this amp (the sound of which is lovely in the classic Violectric style).

More to follow...


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## CTR640

anoobis said:


> Wow, getting on for the 10th anniversary of the thread!
> 
> Having just picked up a G103-S, of course I now learn about the (I think) relatively new MkII. Typical
> @CTR640 do you know which version you were looking at recently? So obviously the Head-Fi paranoia/OCD kicks in, I would be interested to know the differences/improvements, and hopefully it's relevant here.
> ...


Hi there! I've got the G103-S, the S stands for Standard with the unbalanced RCA. The G103-P stands for Professional with the balanced XLR.
The G103-S is damn good and a very powerfull amp for Beyerdynamics, especially Amiron Home. I haven't gotten the chance to try out my DT880 600ohm tho and hopefully I will when I'm finished organizing my desk. I had the Fiio K5 Pro but it's a pretty analytical dac/amp which can makes some Beyerdynamics sibilant. I had the DT880 250ohm in the past to use with my K5 Pro but I seriously had to keep using EQ to tame the sibilance, the annoying and painful "ssss", even Amiron Home got the painful sibilance. So when I got the LP, sibilance is no longer an issue. And another nice thing that comes to my surprise, unlike with K5 Pro, volume can get cranked without pain in the ears. Of course not at insane level but with K5P on the same level of volume, not really enjoyable.

However, in my desk its current state, I haven't been really able to use the G103 as I got the Klipsch Heritage amp and cables have to be reorganized (again) and it's a damn mess which is hidden for now. But one thing is for certain: analytical dac/amps are not enjoyful and the G103 not being analytical, it's very nice!


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## Pharmaboy

FYI, just listed my Lake People G109-A F.S. today:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/lake-people-g109-a-headphone-amp-like-new-condition.23557/


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## MultiplexMan

Picked up a Lake People G109-A on the weekend.  
Jumpers set to factory default driving HD800S.
Looking forward to a couple months of listening before reporting back


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## Angel III

The ideal pre-gain setting on any headphones you use will be when the potentiometer set to 11-12 o' clock will generate a perceived and medium / high (not deafening) volume. I with the V200 and HD650 I adjusted to +6dB (Sony 1AM2 to -6dB). If your jumpers are set with the potentiometer criterion between 11 or 12, the perceived sound will have a very good body.


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## MultiplexMan

^ Pot is currently between 12 and 1 o'clock with good volume


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## Angel III

I can't find the G109A manual on the net, but I suggest you try the setting with the jumper at + 4dB or + 6dB. Your headphone may respond better.


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## Pharmaboy

Angel III said:


> I can't find the G109A manual on the net, but I suggest you try the setting with the jumper at + 4dB or + 6dB. Your headphone may respond better.


Here's the original manual. It's for U.S., but should help anyway.


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## spnc

Just received my LP G103-S MKII, incredible clean and transparent sound, since my USB-powered Motu M4 phone amp is too weak, I initially bought the LP to drive a pair of 990 Pro 250.

But I eventually returned my 990 I didn't like them they have been out there since 2004 and clearly you can tell they're old and not adapted to produce thumping electronic/dance floor music. I took the 900 Pro X instead with the new STELLAR.45 driver and it's a world of difference: fast, clean, incredible bass with no distortion when pushed at high levels, unlike the 990 Pro (which for me is the most important criteria in making this genre). I can push this beast and it doesn't distort with the 900. The soundstage is great to mix, slightly less (I would say 80/85%) than the 990/880s soundstage but actually I prefer to mix with a bit less, I don't need all that width. Sounds very detailed with good instrument separation. Not as analytical as the 990/800/650, which actually is a plus for my level of mixing (just personal taste here).

The Lake People is really bringing the 900 to life, if you only use the Motu M4 amp (again, it's a nice interface but the only thing I don't like is the headphone amp which, as you expect in this price category, sounds compressed because of the USB-power low voltage), it's too limited and dull. The LP brings a very enjoyable overall dynamics to it.

I can only recommend this amp especially for the price I think it's one of the best in this category. Also IMO it looks better and more stable and sturdy than the JDS Atom Lab (I haven't tested the Atom latest version though, it probably sounds as good), yes it's more expensive and bigger, also you have to open it and unscrew the box to switch the amp power, but that's something that you only do once in my case and it took me 3 minutes - worth it. Overall the form factor is on the LP side, I hate small plastic toys on my desk. The LP looks like it could last 30 years, and it doesn't heat at all. Also, it has two headphones outputs instead of one. It's silent as hell, no hiss.

Maybe one day I'll break the bank and buy the upcoming RME ADI-2/4 as a reference ADC/amp + Fireface UCX II or UFX III interface + high-end headphones too, but until then, this setup for the price is quite amazing IMO.


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