# Kitchen Knife-fi



## Ttvetjanu

I think most men share atleast a remote interest in shiny and sharp knives. I myself am a culinary student so knives are pretty much an extension of my arm. I've also noticed that a lot of people are interested in cooking, so I think there should be some knife enthusiasts around here!

 I personally decided to go for the Victorinox forged chefs knife (20cm) and their filleting knife, aswell as a mac BK-100 which I got for my birthday 






 I also have wusthof paring and vegetable knives, aswell as the usual peelers and so on.

 Of course if I had the cash I would want to have atleast one nice japanese damascus knife, but they are so darn expensive and somewhat unpractical for professional use.










 Personally I think the most important attributes to when buying a knife is quality (you want something that will last long), comfort (the knife has to be comfortable to work with, not just good looking), looks (I have to admit, its nicer to work with something that looks good), and sharpness (making sure it stays sharp).

 I've noticed that the thinner and lighter japanese knives, although harder in material, bend more easily due to the thinness of the blades. Hence I use the mac knife for fast and light chopping, such as onion, and the sturdy victorinox for larger and harder things such as root vegetables or large pieces of meat.

 So, what knifes do you own? For what tasks do you use your knives? What types of knives would you like to own? Unleash your fantasies!


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## monolith

There's already a knife-fi thread already, though that one focuses mainly on folding knives and such.


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## jonathanjong

^ True, so I guess this should be allowed to survive. Maybe a re-name is required, though: Kitchen Knife-Fi? 

 Any opinions on these ceramic knife things?


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## Omega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^
 Any opinions on these ceramic knife things?_

 

 Very easy to cut off pieces of your hand with the ceramic knives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They can be scary sharp, and very thin as well.

 For whatever reason, I have not yet found a ceramic knife that felt as balanced as a good steel knife. Thus, I prefer steel. A friend swears by his ceramic though. Kyocera maybe?


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## majid

Anthony Bourdain swears by Global, mostly because they are lightweight, and says all you need is one large chef's knife.

 Japanese knives are cut at a 12 degree angle, vs 18 degrees for German knives. They are thus sharper, but require higher grades of steel to avoid fragility in the blade. The very best are made of non-stainless carbon steel, but require special care and regular sharpening.

 I have a pair of Kyocera ceramic knives. They are great for cutting, paring and chopping, but you don't want to use them for anything that might cause the blade to contact bone, or anything that would require the blade to flex.


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## darkninja67

I own some Globals and some Kasumi kitchen knives and they are awesome. I wanted to go with a Hattori but I would not use it enough to justify the cost.

 For folders I rely on Microtechs right now. I also have carried Benchmades and Emersons.


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## my.self

i own a butterknife and i use it for some mass murderin'. ya dig?


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## Ttvetjanu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anthony Bourdain swears by Global, mostly because they are lightweight, and says all you need is one large chef's knife.

 Japanese knives are cut at a 12 degree angle, vs 18 degrees for German knives. They are thus sharper, but require higher grades of steel to avoid fragility in the blade. The very best are made of non-stainless carbon steel, but require special care and regular sharpening.

 I have a pair of Kyocera ceramic knives. They are great for cutting, paring and chopping, but you don't want to use them for anything that might cause the blade to contact bone, or anything that would require the blade to flex._

 

I've tried most of the globals but I don't like their featherweight, and the thin handle doesnt feel very comfortable either. It is true though that you can do most tasks with a nice and large chefs knife.

 I sharpen my knife every time before use. A sharper knife is safer to use, believe it or not. It won't slip (and it works the way you want it to work) and the cuts are cleaner, so if you happen to cut yourself it will heal much faster than a cut from a dull knife.

 I would, not at least yet, buy a ceramic knife. Too fragile to my use. The concept is very interesting though. Perhaps once technology advances they are able to manufacture some sort of ceramic knife that is also flexible, then you can count me in.


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## Monkee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkninja67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own some Globals and some Kasumi kitchen knives and they are awesome._

 

I used to have a full set of Globals and gave them to my mother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku AS Gyuto 270mm






 Shiki Damascus Quince Burl Santoku 180mm






 Shun Elite Damascus Petty 150mm

 now you lot have made me have this kind of addiction to headphone stuff...the 240's just aren't going to last!


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## Uncle Erik

I've been partial to Wusthof's knives. They're fully forged and take well to sharpening. They don't hold an edge quite as long as Henckels' knives, but the Henckels take more effort to sharpen.

 I get by with just a handful - a 3" paring, an 8" chef's, a 10" bread, and a 5" chef's. I don't know if they still make the 5" chef's, but it is my favorite. Supremely handy and will do most anything a paring or chef's will.


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## panda

i like the blade of wusthof classic knives the best, but the handles are awful.
 messermeister handles are very nice. for balance and comfort global's rock but pricey. i use henckels though because they are good and can be bought used for cheap, they also sharpen really easily (not brittle though like the cheapies) and hold an edge well.


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## dj_mocok

Monkee obviously knows his kitchen knife. I too use Japanese kitchen knifes but the thing is, it has to go hand in hand with learning to use whetstones to sharpen knifes. Maybe not a good idea if you are just after something that you can abuse around. 

 For that I keep my Mundial.


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## Bob_McBob

My two main knives:

 Yoshikane 240mm wa-gyuto





 Kobayashi 3-1/2" dojo parer (this is discontinued, mine is re-ground from a 4-1/3")


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## krmathis

I have two Global knifes, with a diamond sharpener. Excellent knifes imo. Well balanced and razor sharp..


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## Ttvetjanu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bob_McBob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My two main knives:_

 

Lovely pictures. Gotta love those blades, though I must admit that the handle of the Yoshikane 240mm wa-gyuto does not look that comfortable.

 Also, why would you cut a rambutan like that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do those blades require a lot of maintanance?


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## raymondlin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ttvetjanu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lovely pictures. Gotta love those blades, though I must admit that the handle of the Yoshikane 240mm wa-gyuto does not look that comfortable.

 Also, why would you cut a rambutan like that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Do those blades require a lot of maintanance?_

 

Not only it doesn;t look comfy, i don't trust knifes that the blade is "inserted" into the blade and that doesn't go all the length of the handle.


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## Bob_McBob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ttvetjanu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lovely pictures. Gotta love those blades, though I must admit that the handle of the Yoshikane 240mm wa-gyuto does not look that comfortable.

 Also, why would you cut a rambutan like that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do those blades require a lot of maintanance?_

 

It's a traditional Japanese-style handle. It is actually much more comfortable than you would think. It's not round; the profile is shaped like a D. It rests in your palm very comfortably. You can also get a left-handed version with the handle profile reversed. It is a matter of preference whether you prefer a Western handle, and there are plenty of Japanese knives with Western handles available.

 The rambutan shot is from the vendor's site. I guess they're just showing off the sharpness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maintenance is very easy. Nice carbon steel blades keep an edge very well, and a few minutes on a waterstone makes them razor sharp again once they dull. You can get by with a single combination grit waterstone, or go crazy and take it up to something like 12000x and strop for a mirror finish.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raymondlin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not only it doesn;t look comfy, i don't trust knifes that the blade is "inserted" into the blade and that doesn't go all the length of the handle._

 

Discounting any blade with a rat tail tang eliminates most traditional Japanese knives and swords. Scandinavian blades have also used rat tail tangs for 1500 years.

 A full tang is essentially meaningless when it comes to Japanese knives. The traditional handling method is to heat the tang and shove it into the handle. They are meant to be balanced completely differently from a Western chef's knife where the tang and bolster significantly affect the balance.

 It's also worth noting that there are plenty of full tang and bolster gyutos available. Again, it is a matter of preference, and a rat tail tang is not viewed as a mark of poor quality in any way.


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## dj_mocok

The Japanese style handle is actually quite comfortable, but it might be a bit large in some models, but they are nice to hold once you get used to it.

 And tang is really the last thing you want to worry in hand-made Japanese knifes. It's all about balance as bob said.

 Funny I was actually considering to get Yoshikane too but not the carbon one, but decided not to because I read that it's a bit more difficult to sharpen compared to normal ones. that's a nice Yoshikane though, and I can tell it must be very sharp.


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## Monkee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dj_mocok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Monkee obviously knows his kitchen knife. I too use Japanese kitchen knifes but the thing is, it has to go hand in hand with learning to use whetstones to sharpen knifes. Maybe not a good idea if you are just after something that you can abuse around. 

 For that I keep my Mundial. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ooh thankyou. They do go hand in hand a bit, but you can get S/S knives with Japanese edges/hardness and western balance. Shun (normal) would be a good example, or the Hiromoto SS Gyuto, ($131 for the 240mm version).

 I love the Gyuto and Petty I have in-part due to the full tang, _but_ I no longer belive it necessary. My next knife will probably be a tuna/filleting knife with a traditional handle - I have to say Bob McBob's Wa-Gyuto reminds me that I have a thing for beautiful sharp things. And that parer is also up there, with beautiful etching.

 As a pom-down-under, I'm a lot closer to Japan now and my previous love for the euro-style knives has really diminshed. I'm a more efficient and relaxed chef now the knives are doing more work for me and keeping even a high carbon knife clean and dry is just part of the routine. Sharpening - if you're in the US, Dave @ DR Sharpening can probably even put an edge on an orange - he's the best sharpener I've come across and I ship my knives to him before I touch them myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wustofs etc I chop with in more of a rocking motion while the Jap knives you'd usually work off the heel - but they're so much better balanced that even my wife can use a 270mm without a problem, while she'd struggle with a 210mm german/french chef's knife. Give one a go in my opinion!

 And for those with nearly $800 to spend......






 try that


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## Rav

My main knife, Hattori HD3G Gyuto with a 150mm blade. Really nice in the hand, and holds an edge well. I keep telling myself i'll get a high quality paring knife, but i don't know that i'd use it that much.


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## Icarium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Monkee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ooh thankyou. They do go hand in hand a bit, but you can get S/S knives with Japanese edges/hardness and western balance. Shun (normal) would be a good example, or the Hiromoto SS Gyuto, ($131 for the 240mm version).

 I love the Gyuto and Petty I have in-part due to the full tang, but I no longer belive it necessary. My next knife will probably be a tuna/filleting knife with a traditional handle - I have to say Bob McBob's Wa-Gyuto reminds me that I have a thing for beautiful sharp things. And that parer is also up there, with beautiful etching.

 As a pom-down-under, I'm a lot closer to Japan now and my previous love for the euro-style knives has really diminshed. I'm a more efficient and relaxed chef now the knives are doing more work for me and keeping even a high carbon knife clean and dry is just part of the routine. Sharpening - if you're in the US, Dave @ DR Sharpening can probably even put an edge on an orange - he's the best sharpener I've come across and I ship my knives to him before I touch them myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wustofs etc I chop with in more of a rocking motion while the Jap knives you'd usually work off the heel - but they're so much better balanced that even my wife can use a 270mm without a problem, while she'd struggle with a 210mm german/french chef's knife. Give one a go in my opinion!

 And for those with nearly $800 to spend......






 try that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What is the name of the 800 dollar knife? Also what is the second knife in the original post? Those are some gorgeous examples of damascus.

 I just have the basic three knife Shun set.


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## dj_mocok

I only have one knife each for different purpose, and I think the only knife that I might be getting is the slicer, after that I'm done. I am not good at sharpening with stones and cutting technique, that's why I don't really have so many knives, and as you can see I made a mess out of the santoku when I sharpened it, haha... 
 But so far the one that impresses me most is the Watanabe nakkiri. It's one sharp sonofagun - highly recommended if you want to know how real japanese knife feel like. Plus the guy is really nice. As a matter of fact, all the Japanese knife makers have been very polite, that's why I like dealing with them. Much rather support small family business than buying from big companies.


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## ooeric

kitchen-fi,, i like that idea.


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## dj_mocok

No, it's kitchen-knife-fi. Soon I'm gonna start a toilet-brush-fi for those of us who put a bit more attention in the brush.


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## Old Pa

If you're cookin' and not just collectin', 5 Star rules.


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## Rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dj_mocok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only have one knife each for different purpose, and I think the only knife that I might be getting is the slicer, after that I'm done. I am not good at sharpening with stones and cutting technique, that's why I don't really have so many knives, and as you can see I made a mess out of the santoku when I sharpened it, haha... _

 

I scuffed mine a bit, not quite as bad as that though, the first few times i used a whetstone. I don't think i've yet got it as sharp as it was when new, but it's still miles sharper than any of the cheap mass produced knives i've used before.


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## Monkee

That one was a Mr. Itou R2 275mm Gyuto, think it has a bone handle.

 I'm a big fan of not using the Gyuto for Petty jobs - it's not the best for chopping tomato/cucumber etc, or heading broccolli/cauliflower. 

 ...but I admit that the main reason my Petty is S/S is so it takes less care.


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## Bob_McBob

Watanabe 270mm shiro-ko yanagi


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## jenneth

There are some good kitchen knives here... personally, I have a pair of Hattori FH gyuto & boning knife. I like them quite a bit... might get a good carbon steel gyuto soon though.


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## Bob_McBob

Mizuno Tanrenjo 240mm Hontanren aoko wa-gyuto (not my photo)


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## Bob_McBob

Ikkanshi Tadatsuna 270mm YSS INOX wa-gyuto with saya:


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## Ttvetjanu

I'm currently drooling on the Mac Ultimate series, perhaps some day... 200+€ is just so hard to justify for one knife...

Ultimate Chef 10 1/4" - MAC Ultimate Series


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## ArmAndHammer

One of the two Japanese knives I have. I don't use them too often but it is pure culinary bliss when I do break them out. Well worth the cash for great steel.


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## chefknives

I love knives especially when they are shine and clean. I wanted to become a professional chef but i changed my mind after a while. The knives I own are a steak knife set and a chef knife from Global and a paring knife from wusthof.


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## davidhunternyc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ttvetjanu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course if I had the cash I would want to have atleast one nice japanese damascus knife, but they are so darn expensive and somewhat unpractical for professional use.








_

 

I too love knives. These damascus knives that you have posted here are really quite beautiful, however, that edge and the pattern on the knives are just screen printed patterns on the knives. It is meant to "mimic" damascus steel used on samurai swords which, when the swords are made correctly, can cost millions of dollars. The pattern on samurai swords comes from folding over molten steel upon itself over and over again. That curved edge and the irregular pattern comes from the application of clay during a certain step in finalizing the shape of the samurai sword. Because of the fake "authentic" pattern on these knives, I feel they are just pure kitsch. It is better to buy pure carbon steel Japanese knives from custom knife makers.


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## qusp

I have a 8" shun scalloped Santoku and pairing knife. as my everyday knives


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## marvin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidhunternyc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too love knives. These damascus knives that you have posted here are really quite beautiful, however, that edge and the pattern on the knives are just screen printed patterns on the knives. It is meant to "mimic" damascus steel used on samurai swords which, when the swords are made correctly, can cost millions of dollars. The pattern on samurai swords comes from folding over molten steel upon itself over and over again. That curved edge and the irregular pattern comes from the application of clay during a certain step in finalizing the shape of the samurai sword. Because of the fake "authentic" pattern on these knives, I feel they are just pure kitsch. It is better to buy pure carbon steel Japanese knives from custom knife makers._

 

Not sure where you got your information, but it's untrue regarding most high end knives today.

 The steel in most high end 'damascus' knives today are created by a pattern welding process that is fairly similar to the ones that the ancient Japanese (and various European and Asian cultures) used to create steel for their blades. The difference is in purpose. 

 Pattern welding was historically used to improve steel quality by adjusting/distributing carbon content and removing impurities, or to impart different qualities to blade areas by varying carbon content along the blade. Given how well modern monosteels perform though, pattern welding is no longer relevant from a steel quality standpoint. Now, it's more or less used for artistic reasons and the steels chosen for pattern welding are generally picked for color contrast rather than carbon content. The intricate patterning on modern 'damascus' knives are created from steel transitions, just like on Japanese watered steel, although they are usually enhanced by acid etching on modern knives.

 The 'hamon' on most of the damascus knives shown here aren't true hamons though. (The hamon is the line demarcating the transition from martensitic steel to pearlitic steel on differentially heat treated blades.) Most of these blades, in order to avoid compromising blade performance, are formed by a steel sandwich with high performance monosteel in the center flanked by aesthetic layers of pattern welded steel. The fake 'hamon' is formed when the blades are ground and the transition between the high performance monosteel center and the pattern welded sides can be seen. It's not so much a faked visual effect as it is a side effect of the sandwich process.

 Course, you could argue the whole thing is faked since there's no performance to be gained from using pattern welded steel at all. But hey, it can lead to an undeniably beautiful product and aesthetics count in the knife world.


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## hmai18

Posted these in the knife-fi thread, not realizing there was a separate one for kitchen knives. Overstock sale meant I picked up the set for the less than half of what the 8" chef's retails for. They also had overstock in the 4 Star and 4 Star II series, but the Pro S handles were by far the most comfortable to me.


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## dj_mocok

Which reminds me that some of my Japanese knives are in desperate need for sharpening...


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## c8h8r8i8s8

I have a few pieces from the Victorinox Forschnner (sp?) line. Nothing special.

 Once I graduate college, and move into a place of my own I will probably buy a nice set of Wusthoffs.


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## tevez32

I have a Global chef's knife, and a set of general purpose knife set from JA Henckles. I really dig the Global, and wouldn't mind picking up a set if I can find it on the cheap. All my knives are stainless steel, nothing fancy but I get them sharpened regularly. I can't see spending so much money on a super high-end knife.


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## lowmagnet

I've got a set of full-tang and rivet Henckels' knives. I bought them for their utility and the recommendation of someone who cooks a heck of a lot.


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## scud80

all of my knives are different brands. my main chef's knife is nenox, about 8.25" ... i would have gotten a bigger one but i'm vegetarian so the extra size isn't really necessary. this knife was ridiculously expensive, and worth every penny. i love using it so much that i just want to keep cutting things unnecessarily sometimes. i also have a hattori utility, global paring, shun scalloped santoku (my last set of knives was all shun, but the ex kept all those except for this one), and a philip dick offset serrated.

 the forschner knives are fantastic values if you're on a budget or need a special-use knife (big bread knife, carving knife, etc).


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## guitarman19853

So I know alot of you are into nice sets... But what would be the best buy for a set for around $100?

 I bought the Henckles Everedge Plus set... Didnt realize they were all serrated... So thats going back.


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## hmai18

You don't need a set. Your first purchases should be a chef's knife, a paring knife, and a honing steel. Pretty much everything you need to do in the kitchen can be done by those two knives. Maintain the edges between uses with the steel and you'll probably only need to get your knives professionally sharpened once a year, if that.

 Go to a kitchen goods store. Try out a bunch of knives from different manufacturers in different sizes and see what you consider well balanced, well weighed, and comfortable to hold and chop for extended periods of time. Something will just feel like it's made for your hand.


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## rangen

hmai18's advice is right on. Don't bother with sets (the medium-sized chef's knife included in such sets is particularly useless), and you must handle knives before purchase. For example, the beautiful Shun knives, one of which is pictured earlier in this thread, are simply not for me because the handle is too small for my hand. The Global handles look like they would be too small for my hand, but they're just right. Mostly I use Chinese cleavers, though.

 Another key issue is blade thickness. If you're chopping chives fine with the heel (I guess that's how people do it, I don't know, I'd just use a cleaver), then a nice heavy knife you can rock is good, and thickness is not a drawback. But just try making thin slices of something rigid like ginger or jicama or turnip with a thick knife. Not fun. So my most-used knives are:

 Thin cleaver, for veggies and thin slices of meat (one fancy Sugimoto and one quite decent $10-in-Hong-Kong) using Chinese fast-chop techniques

 Thicker cleaver, for all around work (Dexter)

 Global 5" thin veggie knife

 Then there are specialty knives that get pulled out for specialized tasks:

 boning knives (one Global, one vintage carbon steel)

 paring knife (Japanese layered steel, for maximum sharpness; paring knives are nearly useless if not super-sharp)

 Bone-chopping Chinese cleaver (from Wok Shop in SF)

 Serrated, Wusthof offset, for bread and tomatoes.

 And the ones I don't use much:

 David Boye chef's knife (fantastic, beautiful knife that I would use all the time if I used chef's knives instead of cleavers)

 Kyocera black ceramic (I have sharpening skills, and it irritates me that I have to send it and $10 to get it sharpened after 6 months of use). Mostly I find this too lightweight for anything serious, but the best thing about it is that it's nonstick.

 Various Japanese shapes (just don't fit what I cook).


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## guitarman19853

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmai18's advice is right on. Don't bother with sets (the medium-sized chef's knife included in such sets is particularly useless), and you must handle knives before purchase. For example, the beautiful Shun knives, one of which is pictured earlier in this thread, are simply not for me because the handle is too small for my hand. The Global handles look like they would be too small for my hand, but they're just right. Mostly I use Chinese cleavers, though.

 Another key issue is blade thickness. If you're chopping chives fine with the heel (I guess that's how people do it, I don't know, I'd just use a cleaver), then a nice heavy knife you can rock is good, and thickness is not a drawback. But just try making thin slices of something rigid like ginger or jicama or turnip with a thick knife. Not fun. So my most-used knives are:

 Thin cleaver, for veggies and thin slices of meat (one fancy Sugimoto and one quite decent $10-in-Hong-Kong) using Chinese fast-chop techniques

 Thicker cleaver, for all around work (Dexter)

 Global 5" thin veggie knife

 Then there are specialty knives that get pulled out for specialized tasks:

 boning knives (one Global, one vintage carbon steel)

 paring knife (Japanese layered steel, for maximum sharpness; paring knives are nearly useless if not super-sharp)

 Bone-chopping Chinese cleaver (from Wok Shop in SF)

 Serrated, Wusthof offset, for bread and tomatoes.

 And the ones I don't use much:

 David Boye chef's knife (fantastic, beautiful knife that I would use all the time if I used chef's knives instead of cleavers)

 Kyocera black ceramic (I have sharpening skills, and it irritates me that I have to send it and $10 to get it sharpened after 6 months of use). Mostly I find this too lightweight for anything serious, but the best thing about it is that it's nonstick.

 Various Japanese shapes (just don't fit what I cook)._

 

Thanks for the advice... I'm not sure where to begin really. Basically I just got my first place and have nothing to start out with. Thats why the sets look appealing to me. For example the set I bought, (they have a plain edge version that user reviews on Amazon look much better than the micro serrated) I know I would need the chefs knife, bread knife, steak knives, and one of the medium sized ones in between the paring and chefs. Thats all but 3 of the knives. I do have a paring knife. Thats the only thing I have.

 Oh the other thing, even my experience cooking is limited so right now, if it can cut it will be good. But I don't want to buy something so bottom end that as soon as I do learn some skill I will want to upgrade. Like the $30 17 piece sets, I know they're crap.

 I do own a few high quality pocket knives so I know a bit about honing and what makes a good blade. Though it seems kitchen cutlery seems to use a higher carbon steel. I only mention this because I do understand the advantages of higher quality steels (I'm a fan of S30V in pocket knives) so you don't have to start with the absolute beginning with me... but pretty close. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Are there any sets that are somewhat decent for $100 where I might get a couple years use out of the main blades before I realize I need better? Because what I think I would do is get a set for now to start with... then once I become better I can get a couple high quality blades to replace the more used ones such as the chefs knife and paring knife... But stuff like a bread knife and steak knives are useful to me and would continue to see use.


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## jenneth

Quote:


 Oh the other thing, even my experience cooking is limited so right now, if it can cut it will be good. But I don't want to buy something so bottom end that as soon as I do learn some skill I will want to upgrade. Like the $30 17 piece sets, I know they're crap. 
 

A good knife will last decades (if you take care of it), so IMO, I think it's worth while to invest on something good even if it's your first kitchen knife.

 If you want to learn more about kitchen knives, Knifeforums.com is a good place to start.


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## rangen

Let's see, this is not so easy. You need a bunch of knives, for an amount of money that means they're not going to be good. I grant you that your question is perfectly valid, in that there are doubtless differentiations to be made at this price range, as at all ranges. But your test sets too high a bar: if you spend a couple of years working with knives, yes, you will find some things wanting.

 I think that the best advice I can give you is this:

 Go in person to a local restaurant supply store, where you should find cheap-but-serviceable steak knives and likely other knives. The restaurant business is thrifty but values stuff that actually works, so you won't be paying for glamor but won't be getting unusably cheap crap.

 If you find that you are able to get everything so cheaply that you have a bunch of money left over, then spend the extra on a good chef's knife, since that's what you'll mostly be working with.


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## dj_mocok

If you use proper Japanese knives, it will increase your attack +15, agility +12 
 Although it will significantly decrease your gold.


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## derek800

Has anyone used Cutco Knives? I have a friend that loves his, they seem pretty sharp.


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## SiBurning

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dj_mocok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use proper Japanese knives, it will increase your attack +15, agility +12 
 Although it will significantly decrease your gold._

 

Don't forget to pick up at least one small silver blade for roast lycanthrope.

 And a good chopping block is as important as a good knife. Get it first, or you'll be sorry.


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## hmai18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guitarman19853* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I know I would need the chefs knife, bread knife, steak knives, and one of the medium sized ones in between the paring and chefs. Thats all but 3 of the knives. I do have a paring knife. Thats the only thing I have._

 

I bought my Henckels honing steel on ebay: eBay Store - Henckels for Less: 

 You can get an 8" chef's knife from them for between $50-$60, leaving you $40 for a utility knife or a bread knife. But honestly, I haven't found a task in the kitchen that couldn't be handled my my 8" chef's or my 4" paring.


----------



## dj_mocok

I have one of these Glestain Western Deba (16cm one).
 It will give your character +15 attack on fishbone, hard vegies, and even chicken bone. 
 Because it's quite short one and very stable, it also adds +10 on agility.






 My partner uses it to fine slice carrots.


----------



## jonoliew

i'm currently using wusthof classics and a few jap blue steel knives. Anyone has trouble with staining on the jap knives? Wish i could afford the tamahagane ones..


----------



## gspence2000

I am a serious cook and knife skills are important to me.

 I use Sabatier 4 Star Elephant 8" and 10" carbon steel chef's knives. There are a handful of companies that sell knives under the Sabatier name, but the ones with the 4 Star Elephant mark are the real thing (from Thiers-Issard). 

 I use carbon steel because it will hold a sharper edge than stainless. The disadvantage is that it requires sharpening more often. I use the "paper wheel" method of sharpening using a bench grinder (worth googling if you aren't familiar with this sharpening technique).

 I also have a 10" in stainless steel, and while it is a great knife, I can get a markedly sharper edge on the carbon steel one. For many tasks the extra sharpness does not matter, but if I am chopping onions or slicing tomatoes, it makes a big difference.

 Highly recommended for the serious cook if you are willing to maintain the edge.


----------



## kodreaming

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's see, this is not so easy. You need a bunch of knives, for an amount of money that means they're not going to be good. I grant you that your question is perfectly valid, in that there are doubtless differentiations to be made at this price range, as at all ranges. But your test sets too high a bar: if you spend a couple of years working with knives, yes, you will find some things wanting.

 I think that the best advice I can give you is this:

 Go in person to a local restaurant supply store, where you should find cheap-but-serviceable steak knives and likely other knives. The restaurant business is thrifty but values stuff that actually works, so you won't be paying for glamor but won't be getting unusably cheap crap.

 If you find that you are able to get everything so cheaply that you have a bunch of money left over, then spend the extra on a good chef's knife, since that's what you'll mostly be working with._

 

I just checked out the Wok Shop website. They seem to have some cheap, but decent knifes. 
 I am thinking about getting the Dexter cleaver for all around purpose.
 Do I need to get a Veg cleaver as well ? What about a chef-knife ? 

 Thanks.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kodreaming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I just checked out the Wok Shop website. They seem to have some cheap, but decent knifes. 

 But, for cleaver, should I just get a Carbon steel or the Dexter ?_

 

Wok shop is a great store. Worth a visit if you're ever in SF.

 The Dexter is a nice cleaver. I have one, and I use it a lot. The nice thing about stainless steel is that it's easy to reach for, you don't have to worry about drying it off, oiling, etc. And the Dexter's size, weight, and shape makes it really nice for lots of tasks.

 However, the Dexter is a bit too thick to be your only cleaver. It's really nice for chopping, where the extra weight and sturdiness is a benefit, but not so nice for, say, making very thin slices of pork, or slicing turnips, because of the thickness. For the same reason, it's viable but not ideal for dicing an onion in the "restaurant way." It works, but the thick blade means you're doing more work than you need to.

 I've not used the carbon steel cleavers that the Wok shop sells, but I do get a lot of use out of a thin $10 carbon steel cleaver I picked up in Hong Kong. Given the shop's reputation, and the difference in price compared to the Dexter, I'd think those might be very worthwhile to try.


----------



## kodreaming

I think I am going to the store and try it out, see which one fits me better. 
 If I do end up getting the Dexter, i guess I need a decent chef knife with thin edge right ?

 PS:I just bought my first place in SF. Time to burn money on all kinds of xxxWear now.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kodreaming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I am going to the store and try it out, see which one fits me better. 
 If I do end up getting the Dexter, i guess I need a decent chef knife with thin edge right ?

 PS:I just bought my first place in SF. Time to burn money on all kinds of xxxWear now. _

 

Ah, so you're in the area. I'm surprised any of us have any $ left over for knives (and headphones!), after paying for housing and taxes here.

 There's no substitute for holding a knife in your hand, that's for sure. As for whether you need a chef's knife, that depends on you. I am so cleaver-oriented that I only rarely reach for a chef's knife. I do use boning and ham-slicing and paring knives; they are irreplaceable for their specialized purposes, but Chef's knives are often pretty thick themselves. I don't know much they can do that a Chinese cleaver can't do better. So if it were me, I'd get one thickish cleaver like the Dexter, and one thin one. But I'm definitely unusual in that regard; most people do want a chef's knife.

 Another advantage of going to the shop is that you can ogle the shiny Mac knives (I don't have any, but some people swear by them), and the wonderful heavy, thick, orangeish-handled bone-chopping cleaver that my wife got me for Christmas a few years back. Nothing like it for dealing with recipes that say things like "chop a whole chicken (including the bones) into bite-sized pieces."


----------



## kodreaming

I am not spending any more on my headphone at this moment. It is time for a cheap/but decent set of speaker. 

 Honestly, I think cleaver is probably all I need as well.
 So, I will be getting Dexter/vegetable cleaver. 

 The only reason I am thinking about chef's knife , is for aesthetic reason...


----------



## Ashkii21

I picked up a set of the JA Henckels (international) at Costco about 2 years ago. It came with a very aggressive sharpening steel, I had to replace it with a smooth one. My costco knives are nice but maybe not as nice as the ones pictures in this thread. Those Damascus blades look very nice to me.


----------



## APWiseman

Damn, people have some nice knives on these forums. Let me help prep (and eat) food in your houses please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 As for me I just have three humble and awesome knives in my collection:
 Shun Classic 7" Chinese Cleaver
 Shun Elite 8" Chef's Knife
 Shun Classic 4" Pairing knife

 I love the company's free lifetime sharpening service. They feel great in my hands.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *APWiseman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, people have some nice knives on these forums. Let me help prep (and eat) food in your houses please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 As for me I just have three humble and awesome knives in my collection:
 Shun Classic 7" Chinese Cleaver
 Shun Elite 8" Chef's Knife
 Shun Classic 4" Pairing knife

 I love the company's free lifetime sharpening service. They feel great in my hands._

 

That is hardly a humble collection. Shun is very high quality and beautiful.

 If you want to increase your pleasure in your knives, I suggest getting into sharpening them yourself. Professional sharpening gives a great edge, but you can do equally well at home, and your knives will be duller after a week or two of use, so a consistently sharp edge isn't really practical with professional sharpening; it would have to be done too often. I'm a bit of a sharpening geek and would be happy to offer advice if you're interested.


----------



## APWiseman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is hardly a humble collection. Shun is very high quality and beautiful.

 If you want to increase your pleasure in your knives, I suggest getting into sharpening them yourself. Professional sharpening gives a great edge, but you can do equally well at home, and your knives will be duller after a week or two of use, so a consistently sharp edge isn't really practical with professional sharpening; it would have to be done too often. I'm a bit of a sharpening geek and would be happy to offer advice if you're interested._

 

Would a honing steel be enough? I deathly scared of using a wet stone...I ruined some knives like that back in college.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *APWiseman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would a honing steel be enough? I deathly scared of using a wet stone...I ruined some knives like that back in college._

 

Not really. A steel just pushes metal around, sort of like stropping. But if you're comfortable with that shape, you could try to do something like a diamond "steel." And maybe a ceramic one for finer work, though I've never gotten comfortable with ceramic hones.

 I'm not sure what went wrong for you in college. I assume you're talking about waterstones. All I can say is that practise makes perfect. Use your ears, your touch, your eyes. And buy a cheap knife or cleaver to sharpen, so you can get comfortable, before you try your Shuns. But if you get the right grit stones, and if you practice, at some point, your cheap knife will become sharper than your Shuns, if they weren't professionally sharpened the week before. That moment will provide the motivation to try your skills on your good knives.


----------



## APWiseman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if you get the right grit stones, and if you practice, at some point, your cheap knife will become sharper than your Shuns, if they weren't professionally sharpened the week before. That moment will provide the motivation to try your skills on your good knives._

 

What stone do you use to sharpen knives, and what angle do you recommend I hold the knife at? Thanks.


----------



## neezee

you cant really ruin a knife if you sharpen it at the wrong angle can you? say less or more than 20-30 degrees?


----------



## mightyacorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *APWiseman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What stone do you use to sharpen knives, and what angle do you recommend I hold the knife at? Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Here is an article on Knife Maintenance and Sharpening.


----------



## gspence2000

You'll need several stones, of varying grit, to sharpen knives. I use a 20 degree angle for kitchen work, closer to 30 degrees for a utility knife or pocket knife. Diamond stones work faster but are much more expensive.

 It is very difficult to hold the knife at the correct angle when using bench stones. Practice makes perfect. Pull out a protractor and see what 20 degrees looks like. At the end of the stroke, be sure that you don't lift up the heel of the knife--that's the common mistake.

 You can buy a jig that you screw onto the knife to help you hold the angle when using bench stones.

 Learn to feel the burr with your fingernail--you can also see it if you have good light. Sharpen until you raise the burr, then move to the next finer grit stone. In my experience teaching people how to sharpen knives, I've seen that people have trouble telling when to stop. Often people stop when they have not yet raised a burr. Learn to watch for the burr and don't stop until you see or feel it. Then move to the next grit stone. 

 If you have a bench grinder you can get paper wheels which work with white polishing compound. Check out Knife Sharpening with paper wheels - www.paperwheels.com. It is a practical way to sharpen a lot of knives to perfection quickly.

 If you don't want to invest the time to become a knife sharpening expert, by all accounts the Chef's Choice M130 is your best bet for an electric knife sharpener. I would trust an expensive knife to that unit.

 Can you ruin a knife by sharpening at the wrong angle? Well, no, but it might take a lot of work to re-grind a new edge--and a beginner knife sharpener probably would have a lot of trouble re-grinding the edge. It is a mistake that can be fixed but it is better to avoid it.

 I finish the knife with a smooth steel (no ridges whatsoever) to straighten the edge and then a leather strop with chromium oxide to give it a fine polish. This is by no means necessary unless you want to show off by slicing paper or shaving the hairs on your arm.


----------



## krmathis

Not the clearest picture (bad lighting), but here is my gear...


----------



## chaospanda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *APWiseman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What stone do you use to sharpen knives, and what angle do you recommend I hold the knife at? Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I use japanese waterstone 1000 grig on my cheap Chicago Cutlery. It works great. I can get it sharper factory sharpness. Although, when I got it, it was not that sharp to begin with.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *APWiseman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What stone do you use to sharpen knives, and what angle do you recommend I hold the knife at? Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a bunch of different stones. Some diamond, but mostly Japanese waterstones, natural and artificial. I mostly use the diamond ones for my lesser knives (diamond is fast-cutting), and the waterstones in a 800-1200-2000-6000/8000 grit sequence, starting later in that sequence, the less work the knife needs. 

 If I had to be reduced to only two grits, I'd choosee one 800-grit stone, and one 2000-grit stone. I'm not sure what brands, because there has been a lot of activity in the artifical waterstone business lately, and I'm not fully up to date. Possibly Bester for the 800 grit (I have a 1200 grit Bester that is remarkably fast-cutting, though it does require soaking), and maybe a Shapton Glass Stone for the 2000. But that's really going out on a limb for the moment, because I've never tried the Shapton. I do, however, have a couple of them coming this week.

 As for angle, I don't know. I don't sit there with a protractor. I sharpen where the edge is, and I do that by:

 eye: you can see, as you tilt the blade, when you're not at the edge and need to tilt further.

 feel: you can tell when you've gone too far with angle, and, eventually, you get to be able to tell when you're right on the edge

 ear: the sounds are very instructive for telling you whether you're on the edge

 I hold most knives, and all cleavers by the (back of) the blade to sharpen, though that is not practical for narrow blades like paring knives. That gives more control.


----------



## APWiseman

Thanks for the sharpening tips guys, I will definitely look into those links and products.


----------



## rangen

Update: the Shapton Glass Stones arrived, at least the 2000 and 6000 grit ones (the 1000 was back-ordered). They're great. I thought the glass thing was a metaphor for smoothness, but they're actually glass-backed, and they've printed the grit number under the glass where it can't wash away. Very cool.

 They're thinner than most. And dead easy -- no soaking, no nagura stone needed for the 6000 grit, just wet them and start sharpening. Fast-cutting, too. I like them a lot. Definitely recommended.


----------



## atomiccow

I use a Global G2 and it has so far served me very well. Light unlike the German forged knives and damn sharp. I find the handle very ergonomic and its by far the best fitting handle I've used. The balance isn't perfect like the Misono's I've held ( and couldn't afford  ) but very good. It's back heavy which is better than front heavy I think.


----------



## milkpowder

I'm absolutely fascinated by this thread. All of a sudden, I feel the urge to get a nice knife. I haven't really got anything worth mentioning and I recently ruined the edge of my chef's knife using a Henckel's Twinsharp knife sharpener (you know, one of the super lazy ones). Methinks it needs replacing because there are so many burs on the edge it probably wouldn't be worth taking to a shop to be professional sharpened. There's a shop near me that stock Global knives. Judging by online reviews by regular press, they are one of the most well-known, in the same way that other "mass-marketed" products such as Bose, Montblanc and Mercedes are regarded in their respective categories. With so many different brands out there, each with their own celebrity chef endorsements, how does one go about choosing a knife? There is no shop I know that will let me try out the knives on actual food


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ With so many different brands out there, each with their own celebrity chef endorsements, how does one go about choosing a knife? There is no shop I know that will let me try out the knives on actual food 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

- If you're considering a knife, go hold it in your hand and see how it feels. This will eliminate some knives right off, which makes things simpler -- and you may find one that feels so right, you have to have it.

 - You've used your chef's knife for a while, it sounds like. How did you feel about the weight, the shape and thickness of the blade? Use what you know to shape the characteristics you want in your next knife.

 - Realize that if the knife feels right in the hand, you can't go too far wrong. Among the brands you've heard of as being good, there's not much crap. If you want a quality screen, look for forged, not stamped, and a tang that runs all the way through the handle.

 - Don't buy sets. Buy one knife at a time, and spend a bunch of time with it, learning, before considering another.

 Celebrity endorsements aren't entirely meaningless, if the celebrity in question has some integrity. But if a knife has a celebrity's name on it, it's probably significantly more expensive than it would be otherwise.

 I don't feel comfortable with your juxtaposing Global with Bose and Mont Blanc. Global is, IMO, good stuff, not cheaply made, and not overpriced. Whether these knives fit your hand (they fit mine very well), and whether you like their relatively lightweight nature (some pros do, because of fatigue issues; I like thinner blades for many slicing tasks because it's much easier to slice thin cross-sections with a thin blade, but some like more weight, because they use a knife where I would use a cleaver) is another question.


----------



## mrarroyo

I used to own expensive kitchen knives by Gerber, Henckles, etc. However about 10 years ago I decided to buy "el cheapo" for under $50 a set and replace them w/ another "el cheapo" set every 5 years or so. My knives stay sharp now.


----------



## milkpowder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't feel comfortable with your juxtaposing Global with Bose and Mont Blanc. Global is, IMO, good stuff, not cheaply made, and not overpriced. Whether these knives fit your hand (they fit mine very well), and whether you like their relatively lightweight nature (some pros do, because of fatigue issues; I like thinner blades for many slicing tasks because it's much easier to slice thin cross-sections with a thin blade, but some like more weight, because they use a knife where I would use a cleaver) is another question._

 

Thanks for your help. I want to buy a short paring knife because I as damaged as my chef's knife is, it still works fine if sharpened. On the other hand, my paring knife is blunt to the point that it is actually dangerous to use. I couldn't even core a broccoli the other day without shedding a bit of blood and swearing profusely because it had slipped. My technique may not be great, but it definitely wasn't my fault.

 I didn't mean that Global is just a name, I was just trying to say that it is one of those brands in the knife world that have the same resonance and public recognition as a maker of high quality goods as say Bose and Montblanc would in the audio and writing instruments worlds, respectively. Montblanc, by the way, make quality writing instruments. It's not all show. Bose, on the other hand, well... 'nuff said.


----------



## BobMcN

Nothing quite like a good Japanese chef's knife. We have Henkel 5 star's and I recently got a decent Japanese Santoku. What an amazing knife. I went in looking for a Tojiro - Santoku but the salesman talked me into a Togiharu Inox - Santok for only about $10 more.

 Here's a link to the mecca of Japanese knives: Korin - Fine Japanese Tableware and Chef Knives

 Enjoy,
 Bob


----------



## Bostonears

I guess I'm old school. Still lovin' Wusthof Classic. Just added a (Wusthof Classic) Santoku to the collection. I'm not a professional chef, so I can't imagine I'll need another set of kitchen knives in this lifetime.

 Some people comment that they don't like the handles on Wusthof Classic, but one thing I noticed comparing my older Classics to my newer ones is that the handles are beefier on the new ones. The handles aren't longer, but they're both wider and higher, which suits my large hands well.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to buy a short paring knife because I as damaged as my chef's knife is, it still works fine if sharpened. On the other hand, my paring knife is blunt to the point that it is actually dangerous to use. I couldn't even core a broccoli the other day without shedding a bit of blood and swearing profusely because it had slipped. My technique may not be great, but it definitely wasn't my fault._

 

Paring knives are a special case. They just have to be both thin and quite sharp, or they can't do (most of) their jobs at all. Then, too, one can get away with a harder steel because you're not supposed to stress them at all, cut into a surface, etc. So my tendency would be to apply a much higher potential-sharpness standard, and go for a Japanese layered steel one (the "sandwich" of hard steel coddled by soft steel layers). Those are not necessarily super-expensive; I got mine about 8 years ago for around US$43.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Montblanc, by the way, make quality writing instruments. It's not all show._

 

OK. I am no expert on writing instruments. But I did own a Mont Blanc, and while I was happy with the smoothness of the way it wrote, I was quite displeased with the cheap-looking and cheap-feeling plastic that the body was made of, and displeased, but not surprised, when it broke in half one day when it was caught in a drawer. For my purposes, which tend more toward informal technical drawing than calligraphy, I far prefer the tougher, heavier metal-bodied Rotrings -- or did before I realized that the cheap gel pens like Dr Grip Gel were so good for what I wanted out of a pen that I didn't have a need to chase the fountain pen thing any more.


----------



## guitarman19853

Woot : One Day, One Deal (SM)

 Shun Ken Onion 9 Piece Knife Block Set

 $519.99

 Part of a woot-off but it's lingering probably for an hour or so.


----------



## catachresis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BobMcN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing quite like a good Japanese chef's knife. We have Henkel 5 star's and I recently got a decent Japanese Santoku. What an amazing knife. I went in looking for a Tojiro - Santoku but the salesman talked me into a Togiharu Inox - Santok for only about $10 more.

 Here's a link to the mecca of Japanese knives: Korin - Fine Japanese Tableware and Chef Knives

 Enjoy,
 Bob_

 

Thanks for the Korin link: it's a fascinating shop to flip through.

 I've been collecting 6"-15" kitchen knives for about 20 years. I cook, and they have always been a point at which cooking exigencies appropriately intersected with guy-like enthusiasms for collecting gear and owning big sharp things. The fact that they would get used was the built-in justification for not stopping collecting.

 I never really had much of a strategy or even particularly discerning principles. I always looked for forged rather than ground knife edges and tangs that ran the length of the handle. Most of my kitchen knives are German and were purchased over time from variants of T.J. Maxx in three different countries, on two continents. Apparently, "T.J. Maxx" is Esperanto for something that can't quite be defined but is, nonetheless, immediately understood everywhere.

 Anyhow, I've kept about twenty of the things. My best purchases or discoveries of the past two years were these: 1. I got a small Santoku knife from a direct Japanese importer off Ebay. The Seller advertised it as "the sharpest knife in the world," and we all know how to treat that claim. Nonetheless, the 7" knife is remarkably thin and sharp. It's 10-layer Damascus, hard and sliver-like. I find that as long as I carefully sharpen its blade, it works a treat for *everything* --just like that old magic Ginsu on the TV. Only this *really* works, and can do paper-thin tomatoes just as well as it does paper-thin slices of raw beef. I've read earlier in this thread that the German Solingen knives are heavier, less wieldy, but keep edges longer. This Santoku must be frequently steeled, but it's king-hell on prep when it's sharp, and I hardly need to use anything else.

 2. I finally learned how to use a carbon rod to sharpen slightly dulled edges. I won't say anything about the method, other than A. it does indeed look like what butchers do, and if you know a butcher, she may agree to show you, B. it goes fast, C. it takes an incredibly 'light' touch [I've worn strips into my oldest carbon rod by trying years ago to 'grind' the knife-edge down on it--doofus!], and D. you do it bunches and don't mind because it makes a real difference in the quality of your cutting--and the safety, and the speed. Shave three minutes off the time taken to dice 8 big onions, and you'll notice it.

 3. I got a couple of small, gray water cuticle stones from a Belgian seller on Ebay. They are very fine quality, and they weren't particularly expensive (all 3 were about $55.00 shipped, I think). I found out that you only use these for blades that have lost their edges significantly ('news to me but probably not news to many who check this thread), and gradually I found out the stroking techniques for whetting more effectively. I say that I've gotten *more effective* because I see that I'll be perfecting this for the rest of my life, but it's a useful thing to know, and it's good to learn that there's a 'right way' because it stops you from doing things the 'wrong way' ever after.


----------



## Bob_McBob

I finally picked up a knife I've had my eye on for at least a year: Tojiro DP honesuki. Good price from an eBay seller in Japan, with cheap EMS shipping. Should be here next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Oddly enough, I was watching Heston Blumenthal's "In Search of Perfection" not too long ago, and noticed him using this exact knife.


----------



## erasmus

I use a CCK 1301 chinese cleaver and a Tojiro DP 150mm petty, along with a King 1000/6000 combo stone and a DMT XC diamond plate.
   
  There must be a hundred knives and sharpening stones and cutting boards that I'm lusting after, but I'm a broke college student.


----------



## El_Doug

I'm a fan of wusthof, and my entire set comes from them (less my cleaver, which is a Henckel).  They take to a whetstone very well, the handle is amazing, balance is perfect.  I highly recommend these - i used them when I was a professional cook for 2 years, and to this day they are still in tip top condition. 
   
  I am bound to believe that spending any more yields absolutely ZERO benefit. I demoed some very expensive japanese knives, and there was no improvement in my speed, accuracy, or comfort.


----------



## marvin

Quote:  





> I am bound to believe that spending any more yields absolutely ZERO benefit. I demoed some very expensive japanese knives, and there was no improvement in my speed, accuracy, or comfort.


 

 Other than ergonomic and aesthetic preferences, the primary benefit of high end Japanese knives is steel type. A pretty big gap has opened up between the Japanese and the Germans, especially with the introduction of ZDP-189 and Cowry X into the cutlery market. High end Japanese steels now run 10-15 RC higher than traditional German steels. As a result, they can hold much more acute edges (20-25 degree vs 40 degree inclusive) and stay sharper for significantly longer. Whether that translates to a performance difference in the hand is debatable, but there is a significant technical advantage.
   
  Course, some of those steels will also rust if you look at them funny (ZDP is a rust magnet) and aren't quite as tolerant of punishment (ZDP is invariably used as a clad steel). Performance is also highly dependent on sharpening skills, and there's a huge difference between being able to keep a working edge on German steel (50-55 RC) and being able to put a good edge on premium Japanese steels (65-67 RC). Even sharpening a mid range Japanese steel like VG-10 (58-59 RC) is beyond the capability of most users.


----------



## daigo

I have a fairly inexpensive Shun Steel 8" chef knife/4" paring knife as my training set of knives.  It's Shun's least expensive line, with a full one piece steel blade and their D shaped handle, but the blade does have their damascus pattern to it.  Unfortunately, I've gotten a few light discolorations, acid stains, from not diligently washing the blade quickly after use but still a very good knife set up.


----------



## PalJoey

For many years, I used basic knives like Kitchen Devil with their thin wibbly-wobbly blades. Then, a few years ago, I noticed that my local supermarket were heavily discounting some rather elegant Terence Conran-designed cutlery.
  
 It was obviously clearance stock and I'd seen the price cut twice while wresting with temptation, so I held my nerve for another week, and ended up with a £40+ chef's knife for under a tenner!
  
 Given the price when new, this is obviously not high-end knife-fi, but the step up in feel from bargain basement is like night and day, when it comes to feel and holding an edge. I ended up getting the paring knife and breadknife from the same collection. 
  
 Never going back to cheap!


----------



## ProtegeManiac (Feb 17, 2019)

Gonna necro this thread since I don't want to start a new thread for this...just thought I might check in here and see if anybody here knows anything about this sharpening stone. I got it for around $9 locally and I could use a slightly wider stone that I can use on my cheap beater knives and keep my KW65's (note: I paid around $50 for it thanks to shipping, in case you might wonder why I don't just get something else than try out some mystery stone) 1000grit side for my carbon steel knife (although I originally thought I'd test it on this and see if it does cut faster). I was actually looking for a 3000grit that was wider than the one I got from the hardware store ten years ago but this kitchen supplies store had only a 1000grit Naniwa that raised a few red flags (ie it's cheaper than the cheapest Naniwa 1000grit, waaaay thicker, and the box color is all wrong). Apart from a possible counterfeit product that I didn't want to support, it was going for the equivalent of roughly $20.


Box cover and stone label side. Very rough out of the box - I picked one from the shelf that wasn't chipped but otherwise the quality control during the casting/molding process leaves a lot to be desired. If you had it on hand you can feel that the borders of the stone (although they did carve a 45deg angle into the corners already) were a lot rougher an higher than the middle of the stone. Even the $2 combo stones from the hardware store that I had before I got the King were flatter. The funny part is that the smooth center was so smooth it was smoother than my King KW65's 1000 grit side (so there goes the probability that it's an 800 that will cut faster) - it felt like a 1500 or 2000grit by comparison.






Reverse side after flattening on a marble countertop with 80grit, 120grit, then 240grit 3M sandpaper (I tried 120 and 220 of another brand before this and the cutting action was just slow): a hair rougher than the label side's smooth sections. It feels a hair rougher than the King 1000.






Measurements were for the box base - actual width is 60mm absolute size, with chamfered edges that's down to 59mm. Width was one of the reasons I got it and I regret not bringing my measuring tape. 5mm's not really that big of a problem given the added length (I can compensate with how I lay the knife down), I really just wanted something that was at least as wide as my King since my carbon knife is a PITA to sharpen on a narrow stone (240mm, too easy to tilt it given how far my right hand at the handle will be once I'm working at or nearer the tip).





This is where I get stumped. I searched for this model number and I only got a gigantic Masamoto 1000grit "brick" (ie like the King 1000 XL) on some HK-based bulk seller's website (that inexplicably has what looks like the stand for the high end Naniwa polishing stone on the page).
http://www.ctk.com.hk/en_pro2.asp?ProID=716&ClassOneID=26


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## PaganDL

Hi @ProtegeManiac,

Basically, the stone you show is a Chinese _knock off of a knock off_ of a combination of Naniwa & Masamoto which is why the latter came up when you searched the serial...

If I remember correctly, grit wise, I have only seen this in real a very long time ago so only going off memory for grit but believe it is as you say, it averages around 800 grit though there are some variants which average 900 which you may have since you say it seems closer to 1000 grit for you.

Hope this works for you, if you need any help with getting sharpening stones, etc, PM me.

Hope you have a great day !


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## ProtegeManiac

PaganDL said:


> Hi @ProtegeManiac,
> 
> Basically, the stone you show is a Chinese _knock off of a knock off_ of a combination of Naniwa & Masamoto which is why the latter came up when you searched the serial...



The store I got it from has on a special shelf a Naniwa 1000...but the box is like one of the tools-oriented Kings (the one with the 300grit in a light blue box). It's supposed to be 1000grit, and the measurement seems correct, but since it cost around $20 I didn't want to gamble on it being a knock off and not at least a Naniwa designed for gardening tools. I was hoping this one at least isn't a knock off, just a really cheap stone, but when I saw the Masamoto that had the same box, well, crap.

My problem with my King though is that the cutting is just a little slow, although on the upside, if the steel is harder then I'd need to do it less frequently anyway, but I'd still have to weigh my options. I'm taking the stone a little more seriously now since a bunch of local blacksmiths are now making their knives. I'm still trying to contact one since the restaurant through which they sell closed ust when I was gonna check them out last November, but there's another locally crafted knife that I'm probably gonna get if for no other reason than that it's local.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqmAQmNlr_8/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet




PaganDL said:


> Hope this works for you, if you need any help with getting sharpening stones, etc, PM me.



I have no problem finding them online, it's just that the shipping is what's gonna kill me.


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## PaganDL

ProtegeManiac said:


> The store I got it from has on a special shelf a Naniwa 1000...but the box is like one of the tools-oriented Kings (the one with the 300grit in a light blue box). It's supposed to be 1000grit, and the measurement seems correct, but since it cost around $20 I didn't want to gamble on it being a knock off and not at least a Naniwa designed for gardening tools. I was hoping this one at least isn't a knock off, just a really cheap stone, but when I saw the Masamoto that had the same box, well, crap.
> 
> My problem with my King though is that the cutting is just a little slow, although on the upside, if the steel is harder then I'd need to do it less frequently anyway, but I'd still have to weigh my options. I'm taking the stone a little more seriously now since a bunch of local blacksmiths are now making their knives. I'm still trying to contact one since the restaurant through which they sell closed ust when I was gonna check them out last November, but there's another locally crafted knife that I'm probably gonna get if for no other reason than that it's local.
> 
> ...




All valid points as usual, I feel your pain with tracking down good stones & knives, especially the former, though I would suggest making or getting a good quality leather strop & hone your knives that way.
It does save using a stone in the long run as well as better on your knife.
Should be easier to track down a leather supplier or leather shop who sells decent leather off cuts or scraps for very little money.

After many years, I am still after the Sugimoto No 22 cleaver but given how the exchange rate has been, the price alone is kind of ridiculous for a _power cleaver_,   , which I rather & have put into other things, especially audio gear 

Slightly off topic, the other knife which is not kitchen related for many years I have also been after is the Chris Reeve Green Beret Tactical Knife, the smaller one.

I feel your pain, shipping is a serious pain for me too, especially most things from the US.


By the way, a good basic to mid range combination stone is by Kasumi, there are two types.
800/1000
3000/8000

This would be a good alternative if you can find it.
I have the 3000/8000 which is very good though it is a little pricey & availiability might be annoying unless you know a good kitchen &/or knife supply place, even department store in your area which has the Kasumi knife brand.
I got mine locally which turned out not too pricey though it was a little high for what I wanted to pay at the time but worth it.

Having used many stones myself over the years, though I have never owned any King stones but certainly have used many which I find quite meh really but that's just my humble & subjective opinion...

I prefer some of the mid range Japanese stones which I got imported from Japan several years ago so if you can track any of these down locally or know anyone who can get them for you at a good price, keep these in mind.
Though I tended to use these more to hone wood carving knives & wood carving chisels.

Suehiro Gokumyo 20000 Grit
Sigma Power 13000 Grit

Hope this is some use.

Hope you have a great day !


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## ProtegeManiac

PaganDL said:


> All valid points as usual, I feel your pain with tracking down good stones & knives, especially the former, though I would suggest making or getting a good quality leather strop & hone your knives that way.
> It does save using a stone in the long run as well as better on your knife.



I strop on the 6000grit side of my King weekly, then on leather with the green compound.

It's enough to hone my softer steel gyuto and nakiri but of course every month I have to sharpen both. Not that they're already dull, but I need them super sharp to 1) make cutting effortless and 2) cut tomatoes really thin without crushing the juices out for my sandwiches. I have a 240mm carbon gyuto but despite the harder steel it's easier to get a burr on that one, and the steel harder means I barely sharpen the thing. However it's a little too long for what I need daily so I only use it mostly when my friends and I are having a BBQ, where I use it to portion out fillets (I sear them skin on) or make crudo/sashimi (I'm too cheap to get a yanagiba that will only be used for raw fish and carving prime rib, although the store I got the crap 800grit from has some generic yaangibas...the weird part is that despite them being sharp and otherwise single bevel, the rear of the knife isn't hollow ground). And as much as that gyuto makes short work of the tomato, the tomato makes short work of it in return. I sliced some for a sandwich, cleaned it well, wiped it dry, let it dry completely overnight and placed it in its sheath, and lo and behold two weeks later I nearly cut myself pulling it out as oxidation was so thick the velvet lining got stuck to it. Took me an hour with baking soda and a rust eraser just to clean the damn thing. Anything else I cut with it, no problem.

For the most part what I have to sharpen often is my old santoku. Decent steel but still on the soft side, but it's a cheap thick knife and I use it to decapitate fish and take chicken apart. Honing can't fix the edge clean even though I only cut through chicken joints and softer fish spines. After about one bird it'll have some sections that need resharpening.




PaganDL said:


> Should be easier to track down a leather supplier or leather shop who sells decent leather off cuts or scraps for very little money.



Traffic is what's making it a PITA. I'm less than 20km from the shoe manufacturing area and just going there is making me lazy. The strop I got online is originally for my pocket knife given its length.




PaganDL said:


> I feel your pain, shipping is a serious pain for me too, especially most things from the US.



Even getting the stuff from Japan will cost me $30+ to ship. And I'm less confident about those dealers sending me a new one if they didn't wrap it in a lot of padding or if it was absolutely mishandled.




PaganDL said:


> By the way, a good basic to mid range combination stone is by Kasumi, there are two types.
> 800/1000
> 3000/8000



For the most part I'm good with my KW65, especially the 6000grit side. It's not gonna wear down for many years. It's the 1000 side that I'm having a problem with. Kind of slow even on my 54HRC gyuto, kind of decent on my harder carbon steel (but then again, it does tend to be easier to get a burr on carbon steel), _but_ if I get the local AUS8 knife I'm anticipating it to be really slow. It's already slow on a 54HRC stainless knife, 60HRC will be like a total body workout, which means less time and energy actually cooking, which is the whole point of getting a decent knife.

I'm probably just gonna get a Naniwa Traditional 800 or a Cerax 1000 when my brother flies in. I don't really mind if my 6000grit and strop makes my knives look kind of weird with a mirror edge (not to mention the local AUS8 knife does have that anyway, so at least that one will not look weird). Although long run I might get a 3000grit if I get any other decent knife that doesn't have a mirror polish and I don't want it to look weird with just the edge having the mirror finish. At least with the local knife I'm getting the mirror polish goes past the edge, so using anything with less than 5000grit or with less polishing compounds than a Chosera 3000 might be a problem for it. The guys who sell the knife claim it's fine on the KW65, ie they know one guy who used it, but without all the details, chances are he's just got more patience than I do (or they got it wrong and he actually has the harder KDS or the 800/6000 formulated specifically for carbon steel but works with any hard stainless steel just fine).




PaganDL said:


> I prefer some of the mid range Japanese stones which I got imported from Japan several years ago so if you can track any of these down locally or know anyone who can get them for you at a good price, keep these in mind.
> Though I tended to use these more to hone wood carving knives & wood carving chisels.
> 
> Suehiro Gokumyo 20000 Grit
> Sigma Power 13000 Grit



Too fine for my needs though, even the King 6000 finishes my knife with a near mirror polish that's still way too shiny compared to the rest of the knife.

Although I'm also considering the Gokumyo thanks to the width. I think they're a hair over 3in wide. With an 8in at an angle that's practically just the flat section then the belly to tip - basically I just have to do two sections instead of moving up and down the edge.









PaganDL said:


> After many years, I am still after the Sugimoto No 22 cleaver but given how the exchange rate has been, the price alone is kind of ridiculous for a _power cleaver_,   , which I rather & have put into other things, especially audio gear
> 
> Slightly off topic, the other knife which is not kitchen related for many years I have also been after is the Chris Reeve Green Beret Tactical Knife, the smaller one.
> 
> ...


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## PaganDL

ProtegeManiac said:


> I strop on the 6000grit side of my King weekly, then on leather with the green compound.
> 
> It's enough to hone my softer steel gyuto and nakiri but of course every month I have to sharpen both. Not that they're already dull, but I need them super sharp to 1) make cutting effortless and 2) cut tomatoes really thin without crushing the juices out for my sandwiches. I have a 240mm carbon gyuto but despite the harder steel it's easier to get a burr on that one, and the steel harder means I barely sharpen the thing. However it's a little too long for what I need daily so I only use it mostly when my friends and I are having a BBQ, where I use it to portion out fillets (I sear them skin on) or make crudo/sashimi (I'm too cheap to get a yanagiba that will only be used for raw fish and carving prime rib, although the store I got the crap 800grit from has some generic yaangibas...the weird part is that despite them being sharp and otherwise single bevel, the rear of the knife isn't hollow ground). And as much as that gyuto makes short work of the tomato, the tomato makes short work of it in return. I sliced some for a sandwich, cleaned it well, wiped it dry, let it dry completely overnight and placed it in its sheath, and lo and behold two weeks later I nearly cut myself pulling it out as oxidation was so thick the velvet lining got stuck to it. Took me an hour with baking soda and a rust eraser just to clean the damn thing. Anything else I cut with it, no problem.



Sounds like there's too much PH levels or some acid in the tomato the knife doesn't like which is sadly not surprising.
Also means the steel wasn't well sealed when forged which is even more the pity.
You might have to keep oiling the knife till its soaked, almost like a wok to make sure the steel doesn't oxidise otherwise you might have to break out the baking soda & rust eraser every time you cut tomatos.
This goes back to what you said about the knife rear on the yangibas not being hollow ground which to me says terible knock offs though hollow ground doesn't mean much personally except for it is a nice traditional Japanese Tool making method...among other things.

I hardly use my own yangiba which is the minimum 240 mm length for the type so you're not missing much, I would suggest a good ceramic knife but not for the prime rib if you need to do cutting on masse 

Otherwise Kasumi or Tojiro Flash are good alternatives.
Pricey but worth it
Forgot to mention the last time, not sure if you can get it in Manila but the brand Furi has a good sharpening system called Diamond Fingers which is pretty decent so it might be able to work well for you if you can find it.
The Diamond fingers pocket version is a piece of crap, if possible, look for the system.
Might work better for the acid knife you have.




> For the most part what I have to sharpen often is my old santoku. Decent steel but still on the soft side, but it's a cheap thick knife and I use it to decapitate fish and take chicken apart. Honing can't fix the edge clean even though I only cut through chicken joints and softer fish spines. After about one bird it'll have some sections that need resharpening.




Maybe get a better knife but as long as it works & you are happy is important.




> Traffic is what's making it a PITA. I'm less than 20km from the shoe manufacturing area and just going there is making me lazy. The strop I got online is originally for my pocket knife given its length.




Understand that feeling, there is a leather supply place basically two blocks away & I feel the same though that may change once I sort out some things.




> Even getting the stuff from Japan will cost me $30+ to ship. And I'm less confident about those dealers sending me a new one if they didn't wrap it in a lot of padding or if it was absolutely mishandled.




As said before, shipping to where I am is so ridiculous more often than not & yes, for potentially fragile things, it doesn't help when there are idiots who don't know how to pad things or whatever post system used can just throw it around too.#
I cross my fingers every time I order something, even locally or maybe especially...




> For the most part I'm good with my KW65, especially the 6000grit side. It's not gonna wear down for many years. It's the 1000 side that I'm having a problem with. Kind of slow even on my 54HRC gyuto, kind of decent on my harder carbon steel (but then again, it does tend to be easier to get a burr on carbon steel), _but_ if I get the local AUS8 knife I'm anticipating it to be really slow. It's already slow on a 54HRC stainless knife, 60HRC will be like a total body workout, which means less time and energy actually cooking, which is the whole point of getting a decent knife.




Which is why I suggest the 800/1000 grit Kasumi stone if you can get it, will be easier & 'smoother' or burr free to use compared to the KW65 for all harder steels. Obviously, will still time to sharpen with but definitely _less time_.
I suggest considering it if you can get it or the Furi Diamond Fingers System I recommended earlier.
Either or both will definitely make things easier for you, certainly less of a total body workout. 
AUS8 steel is good & useful though personally & subjectively I prefer VG 10, D2/3 or 15MoV
On a side note, I have a cheap & good Chinese cleaver I got years ago which I have no idea the steel but it is among the best (handling & edge retention) affordable cleavers I have used & own.
In the many years I used it, I only had to really sharpen it twice, honed it more double that but still works better than most of my pricer knives with VG 10 steel so go figure.




> I'm probably just gonna get a Naniwa Traditional 800 or a Cerax 1000 when my brother flies in. I don't really mind if my 6000grit and strop makes my knives look kind of weird with a mirror edge (not to mention the local AUS8 knife does have that anyway, so at least that one will not look weird). Although long run I might get a 3000grit if I get any other decent knife that doesn't have a mirror polish and I don't want it to look weird with just the edge having the mirror finish. At least with the local knife I'm getting the mirror polish goes past the edge, so using anything with less than 5000grit or with less polishing compounds than a Chosera 3000 might be a problem for it. The guys who sell the knife claim it's fine on the KW65, ie they know one guy who used it, but without all the details, chances are he's just got more patience than I do (or they got it wrong and he actually has the harder KDS or the 800/6000 formulated specifically for carbon steel but works with any hard stainless steel just fine).




If your options are the NT 800 or Cerax 1000, suggest the Cerax 100, you will get you better edge retention as well as make your knives easier to maintain.
The whole mirror polish thing is irrelevant.
Personally & subjectively, mirror polish on a knives mean very little to me, as long as the blade is sharp, touch sharp, in fact, all good.
In the same vein, I am wary where polishing compounds are concerned as most don't do a whole lot in the grand scheme but they are useful. I agree it might be more a case of expatience as well as wrong info regarding the harder stone.




> Too fine for my needs though, even the King 6000 finishes my knife with a near mirror polish that's still way too shiny compared to the rest of the knife.
> 
> Although I'm also considering the Gokumyo thanks to the width. I think they're a hair over 3in wide. With an 8in at an angle that's practically just the flat section then the belly to tip - basically I just have to do two sections instead of moving up and down the edge.




Can't go wrong with the Gokumyo.


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## ProtegeManiac

PaganDL said:


> Sounds like there's too much PH levels or some acid in the tomato the knife doesn't like which is sadly not surprising.
> Also means the steel wasn't well sealed when forged which is even more the pity.
> You might have to keep oiling the knife till its soaked, almost like a wok to make sure the steel doesn't oxidise otherwise you might have to break out the baking soda & rust eraser every time you cut tomatos.



One reason why I keep the beater santoku sharp is so that I can use it when I just need tomato on my sandwich, this way I don't end up having to rinse, wipe, and air dry the carbon steel gyuto.






PaganDL said:


> This goes back to what you said about the knife rear on the yangibas not being hollow ground which to me says terible knock offs though hollow ground doesn't mean much personally except for it is a nice traditional Japanese Tool making method...among other things.
> 
> I hardly use my own yangiba which is the minimum 240 mm length for the type so you're not missing much, I would suggest a good ceramic knife but not for the prime rib if you need to do cutting on masse
> 
> ...



Well the yanagibas were selling for around $35. If the rear was totally flat do I still just run the flat side over a lower grit or after sharpening the edge I can just move on to deburring the flat side on the polishing stone, then polish the edge, then back to the flat side?

Still considering just getting the yanagiba as cheap as possible since I'm not cutting raw fish as a pro (and even then my gyuto already does a decent job), but that it doubles as a carving knife, while still doing better on raw fish than a purely carving knife. 




PaganDL said:


> Forgot to mention the last time, not sure if you can get it in Manila but the brand Furi has a good sharpening system called Diamond Fingers which is pretty decent so it might be able to work well for you if you can find it.
> The Diamond fingers pocket version is a piece of crap, if possible, look for the system.
> Might work better for the acid knife you have.



Not sure I'd spend that much if I might not even try using it on my carbon gyuto (my friend tried one such system and he prefers the ones that hold the knife down and he moves a stone stuck on a bar because it scratched up the sides of the knife; my Dad also tried something else similar to these and got the same problem). The whetstones at least I can use on everything I have, jsut a matter of at leat getting the correct grit, faster cutting, and enough width to make the job easier.




PaganDL said:


> Maybe get a better knife but as long as it works & you are happy is important.



Nah the santoku's my beater, so I'm happy with just using it as it is.

What I need is just keep it sharp so I can portion out a whole chicken or lop heads off fish larger than a tiny mackerel, and in case I do blunt it in the process, easily sharpen it so a few nights later I don't have to break out the carbon steel knife just to get tomatoes into my sandwich.

Also a whetstone that will make maintenance of the beater knife easy will at least be easier to carry once I have to move (and I'm not just driving, I have to fly) than a bunka and a deba, the jobs of which I'm good enough with using my beater santoku for.




PaganDL said:


> Which is why I suggest the 800/1000 grit Kasumi stone if you can get it, will be easier & 'smoother' or burr free to use compared to the KW65 for all harder steels. Obviously, will still time to sharpen with but definitely _less time_.
> I suggest considering it if you can get it or the Furi Diamond Fingers System I recommended earlier.
> Either or both will definitely make things easier for you, certainly less of a total body workout.



I was considering just getting a Superstone 1000 and 6000 a couple days ago but then I realized that the price of the 1000 (whcih I heard really loads up easily) plus the cleaning stone puts me within spitting distance of the Chosera 800 (which ironically loads up less) that still comes with the cleaning stone.

I'm thinking of just eating into my cash reserves for the time being and just getting the old Chosera 800 and 3000 (which come with a stand but also the cleaning stones) from Amazon, and then continue using my King 6000 for final polishing  (which will likely last longer too since the harder 3000 will get more burr out) and then a strop. As soon as I at least get somebody to put me in contact with a specific shop in the shoe manufacturing area so gas for my trip there will at least not include "driving around from one factory to another looking to buy just the leather sheet."




PaganDL said:


> AUS8 steel is good & useful though personally & subjectively I prefer VG 10, D2/3 or 15MoV



Yeah Aus8 isn't the best but one reason I'm interested is because it's locally made.

There's another new foundry here recycling leaf springs into knives but it costs a little bit more. On the upside though the edge has a satin finish the darker top section can take scrubbing with a rust eraser without showing scratches.




PaganDL said:


> If your options are the NT 800 or Cerax 1000, suggest the Cerax 100, you will get you better edge retention as well as make your knives easier to maintain.
> *The whole mirror polish thing is irrelevant.*
> Personally & subjectively, mirror polish on a knives mean very little to me, as long as the blade is sharp, touch sharp, in fact, all good.
> In the same vein, I am wary where polishing compounds are concerned as most don't do a whole lot in the grand scheme but they are useful. I agree it might be more a case of expatience as well as wrong info regarding the harder stone.



Not to me though, although I'm not lie the others who purposely put it on all knives they have. I just want to get a high sheen and clear polish _if_ that's what the knife comes with. 

I've seen a knife that has the higher polish extending towards the wavy carbon line past the edge, and while it's sharp, having the satin finish on the edge transition ot the mirror polish then back to the more satin finish on the top just looks...well...kind of weird. Even weirder than when I unintentionally put a mirror polish on the edge of my beater knife, because on that one it's only teh edge that got it, so it's only really noticeable up closeI never had to get really OC about it other than after stropping for 15mins I checked it and went "oops." I maintained it by honing (stropping motions) on the lower grit stone and not overdoing it on the leather after, and the edge is going back to not being shinier than the rest of the knife. In any case even for the knife that comes with a high polish I doubt I'd need a Snow White much less the 15,000 grit Gokumyo. Manufacturer said 6000grit King is enough, though if I ever change it he did say Chosera 3000 is probably enough (though he wagers Rika 5000 might be better).




PaganDL said:


> Can't go wrong with the Gokumyo.



Yeah one reason I haven't completely taken it off the list of options despite the price is the 3in width. That can make everything easier.


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## iamdacow (Apr 4, 2019)

Didn't know there was a thread for kitchen knives. I started collecting and using them a couple of years ago here are some knives from my collection that are currently in rotation.

Left to right

1) Sakai Kikkumori 150mm petty (SRS15)
2) Mazaki 210mm gyuto (white 2)
3) Kramer by zwilling chefs knife 200mm (52100)
4) Yoshihiro 210mm gyuto (Aogami Super)
5) Ashi Ginga Honyaki 210mm (White 2)
6) Kramer by zwilling chefs knife 200mm (AEB-L)
7) Ashi Ginga 210mm gyuto (AEB-L)
8) Ashi Ginga 120mm petty (AEB-L)

Bottom knives
1) Miura knives 270mm yanagiba (white 2)
2) Sukenari 210mm gyuto (Hap-40)

Just like hi-fi, the rabbit hole runs real deep for this one!


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