# PS4 Linear PCM: Night and day difference with Dolby Headphone



## rc10mike

My gaming setup consists of a Marantz SR6005 w/ Dolby Headphone, PS4 connected via HDMI, and Sony MDR-7520 headphones, oh and a TV.

 Tonight I was playing Ghosts and decided to mess around with the audio settings. I previously had the PS4 to Bitstream(Dolby). I changed it to LPCM and right away I noticed a difference with the way my gun sounded, but I didnt really put much thought into it at that time. The PS4 is nice in that you can swap audio settings without quitting the game, so I could quickly swap settings. After a few minutes of play I quickly noticed that positional accuracy of sounds was GREATLY improved over Bitstream(Dolby), pretty much down to pinpoint accuracy. With BS(D), I heard the sounds in the general area, but I found myself searching for the sound rather than hearing it and going right to it (if that makes any sense). If my words cant explain it good enough, let me just say it was a night/day difference.

 There was 1 downside to LPCM compared to BS(D). Explosions and other stuff going on in the map seemed much louder, which sometimes interfered. BS(D) seemed much softer sounding overall, and distant explosions actually sounded like they were distant.

 I dont really know why there is such a difference between the 3 formats. I did try the DTS option for a few games and from what I can tell it sounds just like the Dolby option.


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## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Bitstream should only be used audio out of spdif outputs. The marantz receivers can take in the better quality signals of DTS and Dolby through the HDMI. If you try using PCM through the optical digital cables, all you get is stereo. No improvement there, since optical digital cables can only take stereo PCM, or bitsream Dolby/DTS.



DTS sounds like Dolby because the Marantz converts DTS into Dolby Digital and then into Dolby Headphone. That's why you don't hear a difference. It's essentially the same signal.

The reason many of us use bitstream is because that is the only way to get proper Dolby headphone with devices that don't have HDMI, like the Mixamp. So *NO virtual surround gamer *except those with receivers with virtual surround that have HDMI should be using LPCM.

Consider yourself lucky for having a Marantz that has Dolby headphone.

As far has a GREAT improvement, that's probably because your settings were off. It's the same exact surround algorhythm regardless of signal, so positional accuracy so be 100% identical, unless your settings are all over the place. I assume that you using Bitstream through HDMI was your first mistake, and were most likely only getting processed stereo into fake surround, which is why setting up LPCM for REAL Dolby headphone was a major improvement.

You may have been using fake, up-mixed stereo surround as long as you've had the Marantz up until now.


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## PurpleAngel

rc10mike said:


> My gaming setup consists of a Marantz SR6005 w/ Dolby Headphone, PS4 connected via HDMI, and Sony MDR-7520 headphones, oh and a TV.


 
 Those Sony MDR-7520 are only 24-Ohm, which is perfect for portable audio player and smart phones.
 But it might be causing a bloated bass plugged into the Marantz receiver.
 You might consider investing in headphones with a higher impedance (Ohms).
 Headphones in the 120-Ohm to 300-Ohm range, open headphones, like the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones Or even 62-Ohm AKG Q701.
 You might end up getting even better "clarity" in FPS gaming, It's just a thought.


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## rc10mike

With LPCM my receivers indicator lights indicate 7.1. When I swap it BS(D), it drops down to 5.1. So I don't believe I was getting a fake signal.


I had some doubts about the 7520s, but they sound great so far. I've only had them 1 day though.


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## rc10mike

Did some experimentation tonight to try and pinpoint the difference with LPCM and BS(D)..
  
 My goal was to try and isolate differences in the sound. Im still running HDMI from the PS4 to the Marantz SR6005 which has Dolby Headphone built in. I will keep the AVR volume the same during the test.
  
 I started a private match on CoD Ghosts. I just wanted to mess around and not have any interference.
  
 First thing was to find a nice quiet area of the map.
  
 First I did a gun sound test.
 In this game Im using a M27 LMG with Silencer.
 I would fire the gun in LPCM, then quickly switch to BS(D) and listen for a difference. With the PS4 you can change audio settings without having to quit the game.
 I did this test multiple times.
 With LPCM, the gun sounded like it had more detail, as in you could actually hear the air pressure being released. With BS(D), it sounded like a quieter version of the un-silenced gun.
  
 Next I tested explosions.
 I threw a grenade in LPCM then threw another one in the same place with BS(D).
 With LPCM, the explosion was extremely loud and contained a ton of high frequency information, almost making my ears scream. With BS(D), the explosion was bass heavy and sounded distant, even though I was in the same spot as the LPCM test.
  
  
 Next was the directional sound test.
 I found something within the map that made noise. I would stand next to it, close my eyes, spin around in circles for a random amount of time, then stop and try to guess where the sound was coming from before I opened my eyes. With both LPCM and BS(D) I was able to guess right every time. I even tried this in stereo with equal results. This test will need more verification before I can say which one is better. Perhaps its different with an online match.
  
  
 To end this the MDR-7520's are going back. They sound great but I just cant stand the pleather earpads for gaming.


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## PurpleAngel

rc10mike said:


> To end this the MDR-7520's are going back. They sound great but I just cant stand the pleather earpads for gaming.


 
 Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 600-Ohm headphones, new $300, might find something used for $250 or less.


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## rc10mike

purpleangel said:


> Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 600-Ohm headphones, new $300, might find something used for $250 or less.


 
  
  
 Im thinking about trying these. From what Ive read, the 250ohm versions would be better suited to an AVR where the 600ohm versions would be better for folks with high-end amps. Im not exactly sure how powerful the headphone output is on the Marantz SR6005.
  
 I do have a Senn PC360 which are 50ohm, but are also open, not really a good comparison to the 7520's.


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## PurpleAngel

rc10mike said:


> I'm thinking about trying these. From what I've read, the 250-Ohm versions would be better suited to an AVR where the 600-Ohm versions would be better for folks with high-end amps. I'm not exactly sure how powerful the headphone output is on the Marantz SR6005.
> 
> I do have a Senn PC360 which are 50-Ohm, but are also open, not really a good comparison to the 7520's.


 
 My $500 Yamaha RX-V671 A/V receiver drives my DT880 600-Ohm headphones.
 And I would assume the amplifcation of the Marantz is a little better.
 But the DT880 250-Ohm do sound good.


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## rc10mike

Tried another Private Match test today but this time I bypassed the Dolby Headphone processing in the AVR, so all I had was stereo.
  
 The difference between LPCM and Bitstream(Dolby) was still there.
  
 Explosions were MUCH louder and higher pitched in LPCM than BS(D).
  
 One explanation could be the way the AVR handles the incoming signals from the PS4, another could be the way the PS4 outputs the signals.


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## rc10mike

As per some recommendations in this thread, I picked up some used DT990 Premiums 250ohm just to see what would happen.
  
 Lately Ive been using my trusty PC360 for gaming, which are open back and 50ohms. Keeping all settings the same I swapped over to the DT990s. Instantly I could tell a huge difference in overall volume as well as more pronounced bass. They were LOUD compared to the 50ohm PC360, which sort of surprised me, I guess the 990s are much more efficient.
  
 Anyway, after a few CoD matches, the 990s began to almost give me a headache. The constant explosions and my shotgun were literally shaking my head every time. Turning down the volume to where the explosions were tolerable meant it was harder for me to hear footsteps. So back to the PC360 I went. I guess Ive grown accustomed to its anemic bass.
  
 I guess for "fun" factor, the 990s would be better, they did sound good, and were VERY comfortable.
  
 I know, not really going with my original topic here, but I didnt feel this needed a new thread.


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## anetode

The 990 is a very colored phone, it has a v-shaped response with exaggerated bass and exaggerated treble. That combination will hasten the onset of listening fatigue, so your experience is to be expected. The DT880 is a bit more neutral, though if you may be better served with a Sennheiser HD600, or for less money, the HD558 (both of which will sound more like your PC360); alternately you could try the K701 (or 712/702, whatever they're calling it these days), which images a little better than the Senns and gives a greater headstage.
  
 Quote:


rc10mike said:


> In this game Im using a M27 LMG with Silencer.


 
 You cheap, spray'n'pray noobie gun person! That's the same setup I use


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## rc10mike

It seems the more I experiment with my gaming setup, the more I appreciate the PC360. Every time I try to find something better, it fails. Perhaps Sennheiser actually knew what they were doing? IDK.
  
 Back to the topic:
 Im still using LPCM, I still dont know why I hear such a difference.


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## Flash676

I recognize this is months late, but the fact that you're getting 7.1 with LPCM and 5.1 with the Dolby bitstream is a good indication that you're probably getting a lossy Dolby bitstream, whereas LPCM is lossless.


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## koticinyourhead

Dolby headphones cannot process 7.1 LPCM , let alone 5.1 LPCM.
  
 Only when your PS4 audio is selected to "Dolby" or "DTS", does your receiver use Dolby headphones.
 Dolby headphones, by definition, takes a 5.1 Dolby Digital (OR SOMETIMES DTS) signal and uses algorithms to reproduce the surround sound thru the two speakers on your headphones. Dolby headphones is notoriously known for producing a "muddy" sound that often lacks definition in the higher frequencies. This also explains why audio directionality isn't matching up with whats on screen. Dolby headphones was built to be used with all types of headphones. Doing this made Dolby headphones a so-so sounding because depending on the headphones your using, you either get really good, or really bad sound directionality. 
  
 So to sum up what your receiver is doing when the PS4 is set to these signals: 
  
 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM: The receiver takes all the "lossless" audio from the channels, processes it into a stereo signal, and sends it to your headphones. Dolby headphones is not technically being used.
  
 Dolby Digital or DTS: Receiver takes all the "lossy" audio from the channels, encodes it in Dolby Headphones, processes it and sends to your headphones. Dolby headphones is being used. But remember, even using Dolby Headphones your receiver still technically mixes it into a stereo signal for your headphones. Headphones cant magically grow more speakers and it is Dolby Headphones algorithms that "can" make it seem like your are listening to a true surround set up.
  
 In reality, we only have two ears. The reason LPCM sounds better through you headphones is because it isn't getting muddled up by Dolby Headphones. If there is a way to turn dolby headphones off on the receiver, try that and compare dolby to 5.1 LPCM and they should sound almost identical. The amount of extra information given by lossless LPCM in comparison to lossy Dolby or DTS isn't much when it comes to the human ear. I bet 99% couldn't tell the difference in a blind test. 
  
 So the difference your hearing in quality is being caused by DolbyHeadphone. For absolute best quality just grab a nice pair of headphones and use LPCM. I've found that all virtual headphone surround encoders only fudge up the sound. Stereo is all you need for perfect directionality and audio quality with headphones.


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## l00l

I am a bit confused by all of this... Can somebody please tell me what my best audio setup (if there is one) would be with the following options:

- PS4
- Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro
- Astro Mixamp with Dolby Headphone (old model) connected to PS4 via optical cable
- Yamaha AVR with some kind of "Yamaha Dolby Headphone" from yhts-s401 front surround systen connected to PS4 via HDMI

I want to know if I should hook up my headphones to the Yamaha AVR (with 7.1 support) or rather to the Astro Mixamp and if so, which audio option (LPCM, DTS, Dolby, DH on/off) I should use for the Mixamp. 
I ran a couple of tests myself but I have a really, really hard time figuring out what sounds best...

thanks for any hints, would be greatly appreciated


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## JakiChan

So if you have an LPCM signal going into a receiver that has Dolby Headphone...then what is being sent to the headphones?  Is it just the 2.0 signal from the L/R channels (out of the 7 being sent in on LPCM 7/1)?


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## JakiChan

mad lust envy said:


> As far has a GREAT improvement, that's probably because your settings were off. It's the same exact surround algorhythm regardless of signal, so positional accuracy so be 100% identical, unless your settings are all over the place. I assume that you using Bitstream through HDMI was your first mistake, and were most likely only getting processed stereo into fake surround, which is why setting up LPCM for REAL Dolby headphone was a major improvement.


 
  
 Why would Bitstream be a mistake?  Are you saying that the PS4 does a better job of decoding Dolby Digital that his receiver does?


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## rc10mike

koticinyourhead said:


> Dolby headphones cannot process 7.1 LPCM , let alone 5.1 LPCM.
> 
> Only when your PS4 audio is selected to "Dolby" or "DTS", does your receiver use Dolby headphones.
> Dolby headphones, by definition, takes a 5.1 Dolby Digital (OR SOMETIMES DTS) signal and uses algorithms to reproduce the surround sound thru the two speakers on your headphones. Dolby headphones is notoriously known for producing a "muddy" sound that often lacks definition in the higher frequencies. This also explains why audio directionality isn't matching up with whats on screen. Dolby headphones was built to be used with all types of headphones. Doing this made Dolby headphones a so-so sounding because depending on the headphones your using, you either get really good, or really bad sound directionality.
> ...


 
 I dont agree with this.
  
 Using LPCM w/ Dolby Headphone I can definitely tell Dolby Headphone is still active vs bypassing DH and using Stereo.


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## rc10mike

jakichan said:


> So if you have an LPCM signal going into a receiver that has Dolby Headphone...then what is being sent to the headphones?  Is it just the 2.0 signal from the L/R channels (out of the 7 being sent in on LPCM 7/1)?


 

 Headphones will always get a 2.0 signal, how its processed depends on what signal you feed into Dolby Headphone. Thats pretty much why I made this thread.
  
 When I gave my receiver (with Dolby Headphone) a 7.1 LPCM signal, I noticed a huge difference VS giving it a 5.1 Dolby Digital (Dolby Bitstream) signal from the PS4 as I originally posted.
  
 Either way, Dolby Headphone was still active, and neither sounded like plain old Stereo.


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## JakiChan

rc10mike said:


> Headphones will always get a 2.0 signal, how its processed depends on what signal you feed into Dolby Headphone. Thats pretty much why I made this thread.
> 
> When I gave my receiver (with Dolby Headphone) a 7.1 LPCM signal, I noticed a huge difference VS giving it a 5.1 Dolby Digital (Dolby Bitstream) signal from the PS4 as I originally posted.
> 
> Either way, Dolby Headphone was still active, and neither sounded like plain old Stereo.


 
  
 Ok, yes, headphones are 2.0 by definition.
  
 However, if you claim that there's an audible difference between bitstream and LPCM then something else is going on.  Dolby digital decoding is just a mathematical algorithm.  So doing it in the PS4 or the receiver should be no different.  If it is then maybe it's a bug in the receiver.


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## l00l

I tried this some more myself and I have to disagree a bit:
  
 On my PS4 I switched between LPCM, Bitstream (Dolby) and DTS. I found - and to me this is best audible using the default PS4 menu music - that Bitstream provided the best result, sounding clearer, with more details and more airy than LPCM. I was NOT using my headphones to test this.
  
 Might this be simply a result of my AVR not having a "real" surround system connected to it, but rather using a sound bar? I use this Yamaha front surround system that somehow emulates 5.1 or 7.1: 
 http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/digital-sound-projector/yht-s401_w/
  
 Whenever I switch to LPCM my AVR simply shows "PCM". When using Bitstream it shows "Dolby Digital" is active. I am somewhat concerned that this is just a placebo thing, but then again from what I can hear Bitstream (Dolby) simply sounds better...
  
 Does this make any sense at all?


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## rc10mike

You should probably use a Yamaha receiver with Silent Cinema, and headphones next time. I'm not really surprised you didn't hear a difference with that unit and not using headphones.


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## l00l

I did hear a difference, only in the other direction. 
With headphones and astro mixamp it was sort of the same thing. Bitstream sounded better.


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## rc10mike

Update:
  
 Im a CoD player. When I originally made this thread, I was playing *Ghosts on PS4*.
  
 Fast forward to now..
  
*Now, Im playing AW on PS4*. In this game, I cant hear a difference between LPCM and Bitstream Dolby like I could in Ghosts. Im still using the same Marantz DH receiver and headphones.
  
 My only conclusion is it must *depend on the game*.


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## l00l

Maybe try it with the PS4 menu music? Just for a general impression. Do you hear a difference there?


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## Beatitupp

I am using Sennheiser HD650 (300 ohm) with a Nuforce Icon HDP amp which is plugged into the USB on my PS4. What audio settings should I use? Linear PCM, Bitstream (Dolby), or Bitstream (DTS)? Thanks!


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## rc10mike

My opinion is that Ghosts must have had some sort of different audio tracks. To this day I still cant hear a difference in any CoD game besides Ghosts, but IW games always were better in the sound department than the others so IDK.


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## Qupie

Any updates for Black ops 3?
  
 I used a xbox 360 in the past with my marantz sr 5600 (so no HDMI option) and could "soundwhore" really well using dolby output and dolby headphone function on marantz.
  
 Now with my new PS4 and black ops 3, I can hear footsteps very very well, but can't really hear which direction they are comming from. I did not have this problem in ghosts on my 360.
  
 My setup:
  

*PS4*
 Primary output port: Digital out (optical)
 Audio format (priority) Bitstream (Dolby)

*Marantz SR5600*
 Dolby headphones: 2 (this means a medium sized room, you can also pick 1 and 3)
  
*AKG 612 Pro*
  
 The only thing which changed since my last experience with footsteps is the game (ghosts to black ops 3) and console (x360 to PS4)
  
 Any tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated!!


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