# Opinions: IEM for competitive gaming?



## 519514

Being spoilt by the soundstage on full size cans such as the Sennheiser HD800S and Fostex TH900, I'm wanting to hear opinions about whether anything comes close in the world of IEMs? Z says the Ikko OH10 has a tremendously wide soundstage, but I'd love some direct comparisons between the widest in-ears and the widest over-ears.


----------



## baskingshark

This is just my opinion, but I think most open backed handphones will beat 90% of IEMs in terms of soundstage. IEMs are more for portability and isolation and small profile, soundstage is probably their weakness. 

(Disclaimer: I have heard or owned about 20+ pairs of IEMs but most of them are budget to Midfi pricing). Maybe someone who has some TOTL IEMs can give their feedback about soundstage, I'm all ears (no pun intended) and interested to know too.


----------



## ilovetoys

I switched to IEM's for gaming because I can easily tell where someone is using them. I went out of my way to buy Andromeda's for primarily gaming after using some cheaper IEM's and seeing how much easier it was to pinpoint over something like a pair of hd 700s. Sorry I know those aren't 800's but that's the best I could get my hands on to compare to and my ears said to stick with the IEM's.

I think people mistake sound stage's importance over imaging when it comes to gaming. Something even a lot of low end chifi IEM's do well.


----------



## billbishere

I would think isine10's would be good for gaming.  Still sorta a IEM - but openback with great sound-stage and imaging.


----------



## TeSamwiseG

I would advise against using IEMs for comp play, especially universals. I played cod religiously over the years and all IEMs start hurting after a couple hours of continuous use. You're dealing with a ton ear pressure on top of the fatigue you get from the in-your-head type sound.

If your adamant about IEMs, maybe go for something like 64's U12t where ADEL and the warmer sound signature might help.


----------



## Atavax

i use ultimate ears reference monitors for gaming. I use them for hours on end with no problem. I mean custom molded IEMs are designed around comfort. It seems kind of absurd to suggest that they couldn't be comfortable enough for hours of use in gaming imo.


----------



## Sebastiaan156

for fps i like the monolith m300 for their sound stage. but im not sure on how much you will consider  that to be a iem. 
They are also tunedbass light so really nice for footsteps, for casual gaming they sound a bit boring due to dull sounding explosions or a weaker sounding awp. 

Had a lot of fit issieus at first but now just foam tips and use the cable as an earhook like with a normal iem and they are fine for hours.


----------



## RomalusIV

I think if you're playing at a level where soundstage and audio clarity are legitimate advantages, you're probably going to be better served by over ears. IEMs are great, but the cost of a pair with a soundstage comparable to over ears would be exorbitant


----------



## mvvRAZ

I personally prefer gaming on IEMs (stuff like CSGO etc), because I can tell much more precisely where everybody is. Openbacks do give you a much much wider soundstage, but I still find that IEMs deliver better positional audio.


----------



## oncdoc

I find the fh7 combined with the astell kern SR-25 as a dac incredible for escape from tarkov. Also works well with ifi micro black dac.


----------



## Rhythim

jamieskella said:


> Being spoilt by the soundstage on full size cans such as the Sennheiser HD800S and Fostex TH900, I'm wanting to hear opinions about whether anything comes close in the world of IEMs? Z says the Ikko OH10 has a tremendously wide soundstage, but I'd love some direct comparisons between the widest in-ears and the widest over-ears.


I'm late to le post, I know, but for anyone else who stumbles upon this like I have,

*Background*: I've done ~ 100+ hours in apex's firing range with various blind tests and a dozen different iems (hybrids, different tunings, etc) to determine what best identifies my teammates footsteps.

ImHo, you want to look for a few things, 
A) No balanced armatures. They produce accurate but weak (no impact/ba timbre) sound. This means your ears get confused as sounds move around you and proprioception is bad. For music this isn't noticeable, but when sounds move with your camera in game, it is.
B) You do want that "gaming" tuning. It might be crap for music but music isn't gunshots overloading your eardrums. Flat responses will overload your ears and you will miss stuff in the ranges you need to hear when fighting gets messy and there's alot of sounds around you.

Unironically the common suggestion of the Tin Hifi T2 is quite excellent for a consistent soundscape that can handle alot of sounds since the dual drivers.

But ykno, the main iems I know of used by  pro gamers are the senny CX3.00 by ImperialHal and Apple Earpods (fostex drivers in these) by Aceu. I suspect the Apple Earpods (and found is true in testing) have great proprioception due to the bass response BUT trades off treble in any distant sounds, so this accentuates Aceu's intuitive close range gameplay while Hal uses senny's since he does tournaments where people aren't often all around him.


----------



## dunring

The two best I've tried are the Venture electronics VE Monk because they sit on the ear, and without the foam if you get a good fit they're expansive sounding. The Sennheiser Momentum wireless we're fun for wireless gaming and music. 
   The best headphones was the HD800S with the Sound blaster AE-9, and Audio Technica Adh1000x with the AE-7 plugged into the back, the audio control module on that is just a glorified extension cord, the AE-9 contains the amp in it. Also the Khadas Tone2 with the Grado 325 was so accurate...


----------



## Skrowski

Fellow gamer here!

I have been testing the blessing 2, aldough not extensively, but i can confirm they have a fairly deep and accurate soundstage. Ive been testing it on the witcher 3, position of the guards, noise and sounds of the surrounds, and i found it a massive massive step up from the TIN T2's. 

Ive also tested the 7hz timeless and those are absolutely unusable for gaming. They are the best things ive ever heard music wise but i switch them out for the blessings when i fire up a game. 

I would love to find the iem that would give me the 7hz sound with the blessing 2 soundstage or better!


----------



## Skrowski

i just ordered the EJ07M hot lava for game testing ! will let you know the results once i have them.


----------



## miT

Skrowski said:


> i just ordered the EJ07M hot lava for game testing ! will let you know the results once i have them.


How did you find these for gaming after testing?

I bought the EJ09 after 2-days of full-on IEM testing at CanJam as they were my prefered pair for music out of almost 30 different (mostly) high-end sets. I had not thought of using them for gaming until recent as I generally do not have much free time, but I am trying to get back into it so I am in-between IEMs and a few different headphones, including the HD800S.


----------



## Skrowski

They are incredible accurate soundstage wise. I know a few other gamers that only play competitive FPS and bought the custom version of these. They are very good, very good.  Type ej07m review gaming in YouTube 
That guy haas been around the block when it comes to iems and gaming


----------



## miT

Skrowski said:


> They are incredible accurate soundstage wise. I know a few other gamers that only play competitive FPS and bought the custom version of these. They are very good, very good.  Type ej07m review gaming in YouTube
> That guy haas been around the block when it comes to iems and gaming


I could see that being the case. My exploits at CanJam London are in official thread but I found my ones to be the most accurate sound out of everything I compared them to (64 Audio, Campfire Audio, ThieAudio, etc.).

The EJ07M was similar, but the 09 had greater HF if I remember correctly  hence it suited my needs better. Very promising for gaming then...


----------



## Rhyehr (Oct 23, 2022)

jamieskella said:


> Being spoilt by the soundstage on full size cans such as the Sennheiser HD800S and Fostex TH900, I'm wanting to hear opinions about whether anything comes close in the world of IEMs? Z says the Ikko OH10 has a tremendously wide soundstage, but I'd love some direct comparisons between the widest in-ears and the widest over-ears.


Wide soundstages are bad for most competitive games, you want the sound of the enemy on the other side of the door to be close and easy for your ear to *sense* *with bass* where they are exactly so you time your shots better. It's why the most successful gamers use shiddy earpods or discontinued sennheiser buds. It's not about SQ, Its about sound "texture" and "vibrancy" for instincts.


----------



## miT

Skrowski said:


> They are incredible accurate soundstage wise. I know a few other gamers that only play competitive FPS and bought the custom version of these. They are very good, very good.  Type ej07m review gaming in YouTube
> That guy haas been around the block when it comes to iems and gaming


I just had a thought... Do you know what he uses to run his IEMs?

I am in the market for a DAC for the XBOX One X (i.e. TOSLINK in, no mic needed), reasonably urgently as I am taking with me on holiday next week...


----------



## Spawn300Z

miT said:


> I just had a thought... Do you know what he uses to run his IEMs?
> 
> I am in the market for a DAC for the XBOX One X (i.e. TOSLINK in, no mic needed), reasonably urgently as I am taking with me on holiday next week...



Get you a Chord Mojo 2 or a used Chord Mojo.  You will be good gaming and portable use.


----------



## miT (Oct 25, 2022)

Spawn300Z said:


> Get you a Chord Mojo 2 or a used Chord Mojo.  You will be good gaming and portable use.


Thanks for the suggestion.

I am only looking to spend around £150 at present (maybe £300 if the HD800S absolutely needs a stack), so the Mojo 2 will not work at present unfortunately.


----------



## Rhyehr

miT said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> I am only looking to spend around £150 at present (maybe £300 if the HD800S absolutely needs a stack), so the Mojo 2 will not work at present unfortunately.


Wouldn't the THX onyx work for this? I find that THX linear stuff has the best soundstages for consistency


----------



## miT

Rhyehr said:


> Wouldn't the THX onyx work for this? I find that THX linear stuff has the best soundstages for consistency


I believe not as the poxy box of X-ness does not support audio over USB, only TOSLINK. 🤦 Hence I will happily move over to PC gaming if I can back into it.

I have posted some other DAC/amp options I discovered yesterday in the other thread as I do not want to hijack this one... 😅


----------



## Rhyehr

miT said:


> I believe not as the poxy box of X-ness does not support audio over USB, only TOSLINK. 🤦 Hence I will happily move over to PC gaming if I can back into it.
> 
> I have posted some other DAC/amp options I discovered yesterday in the other thread as I do not want to hijack this one... 😅


Imho, there's no reason nowadays to not hook a controller into a PC for a month, use it as a console, then realize Mouse and Key is better... now you throw away your controller and cry a week later when you realize you can't sit back and relax with a controller anymore and your wrists hurt, but then wipe off your tears knowing that studies show your PC reflexes are 10 times better than a console players.

But also I'm just imho avoiding anything not THX linear amplification certified since it seems stuff that isn't has weird soundstages.


----------



## miT

Rhyehr said:


> Imho, there's no reason nowadays to not hook a controller into a PC for a month, use it as a console, then realize Mouse and Key is better... now you throw away your controller and cry a week later when you realize you can't sit back and relax with a controller anymore and your wrists hurt, but then wipe off your tears knowing that studies show your PC reflexes are 10 times better than a console players.
> 
> But also I'm just imho avoiding anything not THX linear amplification certified since it seems stuff that isn't has weird soundstages.


My excuse is that the last PC I built (7± years ago?) was a Gigabyte Brix because my PC requirements were simply to give access to the Drobo that contains my music collection... It cannot "game". 🤭

I completely agree with you though and I have always known that PC gaming is better, apart from the initial outlay. But IMO PC gaming is far more mature, so when I got the OG XBOX it was because it provided the games I used to favour and had the time to play...

Life has very different responsibilities 
for me now (a very demanding but enjoyable job, extremely limited free time, etc.), so if I can rediscover an interest in gaming that fits in with them, then I will happily build a gaming PC and swap formats next year.

But for this to happen, I need to have a good run at gaming on the console I have not touched in a few years, using my preferred IEMs and headphones, hence I am looking for a cheap (TOSLINK) DAC to allow for this.

This is also why I have booked my first holiday next week in almost 4 years; I am travelling away and locking myself in with no responsibilities but gaming for a week...


As a side point though, if my other journey with high-end home cinema systems taught me anything, THX certification gives an ok benchmark, but it can be surpassed by a huge margin. You can get far more refinement if you know what to look for. Trust your ears, not a licencing fee that some manufacturers choose to pay to reproduce "loud sounds with minimal distortion" (in essence that is all THX is). Sound quality has far more to it than performance at THX 0...


----------



## Skrowski

miT said:


> I just had a thought... Do you know what he uses to run his IEMs?
> 
> I am in the market for a DAC for the XBOX One X (i.e. TOSLINK in, no mic needed), reasonably urgently as I am taking with me on holiday next week...


I don't know it's a great question. He streams from time to time I'll ask him next time I see him online!!!


----------



## miT

Skrowski said:


> I don't know it's a great question. He streams from time to time I'll ask him next time I see him online!!!


I watched some more of his videos and he mentioned a high-end Topping stack as he wants to future proof himself for power hungry headphones...

The video could be outdated though so it will be interesting to hear what he says.


----------



## Rhyehr

miT said:


> My excuse is that the last PC I built (7± years ago?) was a Gigabyte Brix because my PC requirements were simply to give access to the Drobo that contains my music collection... It cannot "game". 🤭
> 
> I completely agree with you though and I have always known that PC gaming is better, apart from the initial outlay. But IMO PC gaming is far more mature, so when I got the OG XBOX it was because it provided the games I used to favour and had the time to play...
> 
> ...


I understand that THX isn't always what sounds best to your ear, but I thought it was "linear amplification" meaning that it's certain the amplification doesn't colour the signal from the Dac?

I'm gonna have to study more into this. My experience so far is with A Fiio Q3 (THX + AKM dac), THX Onyx (THX + ESS Sabre), Schiit Stack, BTR5 and a few other random sources.

While the BTR5 does sound significantly better, the only thing I look for is whether or not stuff sounds like its moving accurately in the soundscape, using binaural clips and games for testing (since games have a visual to confirm the auditory queues), and the two THX units so far have been far more consistent and rhey


----------



## miT (Oct 26, 2022)

Rhyehr said:


> I understand that THX isn't always what sounds best to your ear, but I thought it was "linear amplification" meaning that it's certain the amplification doesn't colour the signal from the Dac?
> 
> I'm gonna have to study more into this. My experience so far is with A Fiio Q3 (THX + AKM dac), THX Onyx (THX + ESS Sabre), Schiit Stack, BTR5 and a few other random sources.
> 
> While the BTR5 does sound significantly better, the only thing I look for is whether or not stuff sounds like its moving accurately in the soundscape, using binaural clips and games for testing (since games have a visual to confirm the auditory queues), and the two THX units so far have been far more consistent and rhey


Being a gaming thread, it is safe to say that your primary usage has different priorities to mine, and it sounds like it benefits this use case.

What I was alluding to as more of a blanket statement covering everything, especially in this industry, is that the sales figures focus on what gets a product out of the door, not necessarily the best sound quality you can find... I eventually found that there is often better out there than the branded stuff, which is not as widely advertised.

e.g. My last THX system was thrilling to listen to, but when I eventually replaced my speakers with customs, I found that the non-THX replacements improved on subtle nuance and other elements that were hidden behind the thrilling punch of the THX-badged kit.

FWIW though, I have heard only good things about the Onyx. And as you rightly found, adhering to a set standard means you will benefit from consistency.


----------



## sjssusma

I've liked the raptago hook x so far for valorant and csgo


----------

