# Best bang/buck speaker cable?



## mattigol

Hi,

 I know this is head-fi, not AA or audiocircle, but I trust everyone's ears here more than anyone else's. My Audioquest Cobalts were great value when I got them in a liquidation sale a long time ago. They are transparent and let me hear changes in make in my upstream components, which I feel is an indication for a good cable. But I never did much critical ABing in this regard either. So my question is, are there any uber-wires out there that provide as much bang/buck as some Grover ICs? Possibly witha trial optoion. Just need a few names and can take it from there.

 Cheers,

 Matthias


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## ayt999

I suppose making some out of extension cords available at home improvement stores offer good bang for the buck since they cost maybe $30 per 100 feet or so and supposedly offer pretty good results. (the reference usually is to the Home Depot HD-14 variety.)


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## bhd812

dude lowes 6 gauge electric wire!! buy the pink and the white then twist it and end it with termantion at both ends...I havent met a cable to meet the sound yet!


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## zdogg

I've compared the Home Depot HD-14 (14 gauge power cord with the ends stripped off) to the Speltz Anti-cables and the Speltz is dramatically better; tighter, cleaner bass, much more refined highs, and crystal clear/defined soundstage. Speltz cable is basically magnet wire and can be bought in bulk for cheap from what I hear. Or get the original Speltz with terminations for roughly $10/foot.


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## morphsci

The Absolute Sound likes the Home Depot HD-14 and Stereophile likes RadioShack 12 gauge megacable. I have just bought some anti-cables from Paul Speltz. I am still auditioning them but so far so good for me. Just a couple of suggestions.


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## SiBurning

If you're gonna go plain wire, gauge matters. I wouldn't use 18 in any decent system. It's just too thin for any serious power amp or low impedance speaker. Probably 12 minimum. You also want a lot of strands in that cable and might go for high purity metal. Need I add that if you go this route, you might want to skip adding connecters?

 Way back when I saw a chart snd some formulas on how to calculate the minimum gauge. It has to do with damping factor, as in if the wire has too much resistance, it adds to the speaker resistance, and affects the ability of the output stage to control the speakers. There was also something there suggesting an optimum, as in some cables might be too fat, but for the life of me I can't remember what that was about.

 My reference is some plain 10ga wire I picked up 25 years ago in some now defunt electronics/hobbyist chain store. Was about 50 cents a foot back then for this high purity cable made from probably 30ga wires. I've tried a few other cables, none too expensive, but none that sound as good. I gotta see if that 6ga fits now that I have an amp that can kick out 30A peak. If an expensive cable can't beat 50 cents a foot plain wire, what's the point?


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## Arnoldhasmail

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ayt999* 
_I suppose making some out of extension cords available at home improvement stores offer good bang for the buck since they cost maybe $30 per 100 feet or so and supposedly offer pretty good results. (the reference usually is to the Home Depot HD-14 variety.)_

 


 I'm for the Home depot hd-14 as well...i spent months looking for the right speaker cable...I listened to dozens. In the end I settled on a very expensive pair of cables but the best bang for the buck came from this cable...I think I tried the 12g but it's the same stuff and the 14 may have a little more insulation which could help more then hurt.


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## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bhd812* 
_dude lowes 6 gauge electric wire!!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zdogg* 
_Speltz cable is basically magnet wire and can be bought in bulk for cheap from what I hear_

 

Two schools of thought on speaker cables: ultra thin or ultra thick. Each has their place, neither is best in all situations.

 I don't thoroughly understand this stuff, but IIRC high-efficiency speakers (like horns) and amps with a high damping factor (i.e. solid state) benefit from thin wires. Less efficient speakers (most multi-ways) need the juice provided by fat wires, too thin a wire will get hot.

 Nelson Pass touches on this (but mostly other topics) in this article.

 As someone already mentioned, Lowe's 8 ga. and magnet wire are both really cheap, so you could try them both and decide what works best for you.

 Twisted strands out of Cat-5 are another good cheap option, although pretty firmly in the "thin" camp compared to 8 gauge.


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## Arnoldhasmail

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Two schools of thought on speaker cables: ultra thin or ultra thick. Each has their place, neither is best in all situations.

 I don't thoroughly understand this stuff, but IIRC high-efficiency speakers (like horns) and amps with a high damping factor (i.e. solid state) benefit from thin wires. Less efficient speakers (most multi-ways) need the juice provided by fat wires, too thin a wire will get hot.

 Nelson Pass touches on this (and a lot of other topics) in this article.

 As someone already mentioned, Lowe's 8 ga. and magnet wire are both really cheap, so you could try them both and decide what works best for you.

 Twisted strands out of Cat-5 are another good cheap option, although pretty firmly in the "thin" camp compared to 8 gauge._

 

I agree...and I've tried the CAT-5 cryo braid...and as you said good for some and not good on others...


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## morphsci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Two schools of thought on speaker cables: ultra thin or ultra thick. Each has their place, neither is best in all situations._

 

Just to clarify. The "magnet wire" used in the anti-cables is not really ultrathin. It is 12 guage but looks thinner due to the fact that the only insulation is the enamel covering. It is also a solid, single-stranded cable and is totally unshielded, which is usually not a big problem for speaker cables in general but you need to make sure it is not a problem in your situation.

 If you prefer to terminate the cables yourself (I prefer to spend extra on buying them terminated and spend the time I would use to terminate the cables with my son 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) you can buy the cable yourself in bulk from Paul Speltz or from other sources.


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## sbulack

I didn't see that anyone's brought up this link in this thread yet, so I thought I'd be the one this time:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


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## eastein

Another thumbs up for the speltz cables which smoked my home brew cat 5 and other experiments. Hard to beat for $10 per pair foot terminated.


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## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morphsci* 
_Just to clarify. The "magnet wire" used in the anti-cables is not really ultrathin. It is 12 guage but looks thinner due to the fact that the only insulation is the enamel covering._

 

Good to know. I've never actually heard of Speltz until now. The magnet wire popular with the high-efficiency-driver crowd is 24-30 gauge, somewhat thicker than human hair.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* 
_http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm_

 

That's a great link, thanks! Didn't have time to go all the way through it, but I'll be back.


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## Scrith

I tried the speltz cables briefly and didn't notice much a difference between them and some super-cheap thin wire cables I had originally been using, but I continued to use them for awhile hoping they'd sound better with break-in and didn't really perceive a huge improvement over 2-3 weeks.

 I then purchased some cheap ($140) used Nordost Blue Heaven cables off of Audiogon because I wanted to try a bi-wire solution, and I (and my wife) noticed a difference immediately...they sound clearer and stronger than the speltz cables (although this might be the bi-wire effect).


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## geforcewong

Anyone know how Esoteric Audio cables sound? Might snag one off ebay for about $140


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## mattigol

Thanks for all your helpful hints so far. Are any of the local DIYers (RnB etc) into speaker cables at all?

 Cheers!


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## DarkAngel

Look into *Signal Cable* line of speaker cables, very reasonable price ship terminated ready to use $69-109, the 10 awg *ultra single wire* sounds amazing for the price and I keep a pair in my permanent collection. 

Signal Cables

 Also have set of *Paul Speltz Anti Cables* to play around with, at $10 ft terminated another very cheap option (although I prefer the Signal Ultra Single Wire for not much more)


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## GoRedwings19

A cheap and fairly good option is the Qed Silver anniversary cable. It costs about £5/m. I have some lying around which I haven't used since I retired my home cinema system.


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## Gopher

I had always felt in the past that the Grover speaker cables were an even greater value then the ICs. You've already got some U6s, so you know where the bar is set--I tend to prefer the SR over the UR for single strand applications, but both are awesome bang for your bucks and a bi-wire configuration of the two is flat out stupendous.

 Additionally, for low watt/high sensitivity applications I really like the sound of magnetwire. 

 Good luck finding something that works for you!

 P.S. Congrats on the Berendsen source! I thought I was the only head-fier with one now (I believe Tyrion sold his). Friggin' giant slayer if you ask me.


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## mmmmcheese

I have the av123 sp-200 cable and love it. 

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...k&product=80.1

 or if you need longer lengths...

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=24.1


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## hubcaps

I've always liked the DH Labs T-14. Best bang for the buck non-diy cable.


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## Orpheus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattigol* 
_Hi,

 I know this is head-fi, not AA or audiocircle, but I trust everyone's ears here more than anyone else's. My Audioquest Cobalts were great value when I got them in a liquidation sale a long time ago. They are transparent and let me hear changes in make in my upstream components, which I feel is an indication for a good cable. But I never did much critical ABing in this regard either. So my question is, are there any uber-wires out there that provide as much bang/buck as some Grover ICs? Possibly witha trial optoion. Just need a few names and can take it from there.

 Cheers,

 Matthias_

 

i would recommend you buy Canare 4S11 cable (professional-oriented speaker cable) and terminate yourself. there's plenty of screw on or crimp type connectors you can buy. the cable is very good--11 gauge star quad... it's what i use throughout the studio. costs about $1/ft... i think. don't remember exactly how much. (though personally i use soldered terminations... but you don't have to.)

 don't use the power cable someone suggested. there might be some that's okay... but the quality will vary (i tried and it sucked). just get the Canare. cheap and probably better than most of those audiophile type cables costing 100x more.


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## replytoken

I'll throw in my two cents worth and mention Blue Jeans Cable. I just picked up a pair of IC's from them and they seem to be of good quality and good value. If you are not happy with them, they will refund your $ within 30 days. I am sure I could find cables that sound different, and possibly better, but I imagine that for most (not all) I would have to spend far beyond what they charge at Blue Jeans.


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## SiBurning

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_Look into *Signal Cable* line of speaker cables_

 

On my system, the Signal Cable speaker cables lose some highs and speed compared to a similar length (12-15') of 10ga plain unterminated cable. Cheap CD player, MSB Link DAC, Creek 5350SE, Polk RT16 and Epos M5. It's a pair of 12' single wire, double run-Q with spade on one end, BFA on the other. If you're looking for a set of these speaker cables, that pair's just sitting in a drawer, so I could easily part with them.

 I do use their Analog Two interconnects, though. Since I don't like the speaker cables, it might make sense for me to look into replacing the interconnects, but they're better than anything I've tried so far, except that they're very stiff, which causes some minor issues in routing them.


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## mattigol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *replytoken* 
_I'll throw in my two cents worth and mention Blue Jeans Cable. I just picked up a pair of IC's from them and they seem to be of good quality and good value. If you are not happy with them, they will refund your $ within 30 days. I am sure I could find cables that sound different, and possibly better, but I imagine that for most (not all) I would have to spend far beyond what they charge at Blue Jeans._

 

I bought a digital cable from them. Great buing experience, great cable. Thanks for the reminder!


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orpheus* 
_i would recommend you buy Canare 4S11 cable (professional-oriented speaker cable) and terminate yourself. there's plenty of screw on or crimp type connectors you can buy. the cable is very good--11 gauge star quad... it's what i use throughout the studio. costs about $1/ft... i think. don't remember exactly how much. (though personally i use soldered terminations... but you don't have to.)_

 

I second the Canare 4S11 suggestion. It's what I currently use. Subjectively I prefer it to the Kimber 4VS I used to have in my system, and for the price you can't beat it, especially for 11 gauge cable. If aesthetics matter, buy some TechFlex to cover the grey exterior of the cable.


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## geforcewong

What terminations should provide the best sound? I read somewhere that spades do but it's hard to get the right size spade to fit certain speakers...is this true? Also does anyone know where I can get a cable with a Spade termination on one side and bare straight wire on the other end?


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## Jon L

http://vhaudio.com/speakercables.html

 If you have the time and patience (I don't), this stuff is reported to be the Bees Knees. I just can't deal with the labor involved...


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## geforcewong

I think cryo treatment is just a marketing ploy to justify extremely expensive wire prices.


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